>> Hello everyone. Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of International Women's Day. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE been profiling the leaders in the technology world, women in technology from developers to the boardroom, everything in between. We have two great guests promoting in from Malaysia. Nancy Wang is the general manager, also CUBE alumni from AWS Data Protection, and founder and board chair of Advancing Women in Tech, awit.org. And of course Kate Watts who's the executive director of Advancing Women in Tech.org. So it's awit.org. Nancy, Kate, thanks for coming all the way across remotely from Malaysia. >> Of course, we're coming to you as fast as our internet bandwidth will allow us. And you know, I'm just thrilled today that you get to see a whole nother aspect of my life, right? Because typically we talk about AWS, and here we're talking about a topic near and dear to my heart. >> Well, Nancy, I love the fact that you're spending a lot of time taking the empowerment to go out and help the industries and helping with the advancement of women in tech. Kate, the executive director it's a 501C3, it's nonprofit, dedicating to accelerating the careers of women in groups in tech. Can you talk about the organization? >> Yes, I can. So Advancing Women in Tech was founded in 2017 in order to fix some of the pathway problems that we're seeing on the rise to leadership in the industry. And so we specifically focus on supporting mid-level women in technical roles, get into higher positions. We do that in a few different ways through mentorship programs through building technical skills and by connecting people to a supportive community. So you have your peer network and then a vertical sort of relationships to help you navigate the next steps in your career. So to date we've served about 40,000 individuals globally and we're just looking to expand our reach and impact and be able to better support women in the industry. >> Nancy, talk about the creation, the origination story. How'd this all come together? Obviously the momentum, everyone in the industry's been focused on this for a long time. Where did AWIT come from? Advancing Women in Technology, that's the acronym. Advancing Women in Technology.org, where'd it come from? What's the origination story? >> Yeah, so AWIT really originated from this desire that I had, to Kate's point around, well if you look around right and you know, don't take my word for it, right? Look at stats, look at news reports, or just frankly go on your LinkedIn and see how many women in underrepresented groups are in senior technical leadership roles right out in the companies whose names we all know. And so that was my case back in 2016. And so when I first got the idea and back then I was actually at Google, just another large tech company in the valley, right? It was about how do we get more role models, how we get more, for example, women into leadership roles so they can bring up the next generation, right? And so this is actually part of a longer speech that I'm about to give on Wednesday and part of the US State Department speaker program. In fact, that's why Kate and I are here in Malaysia right now is working with over 200 women entrepreneurs from all over in Southeast Asia, including Malaysia Philippines, Vietnam, Borneo, you know, so many countries where having more women entrepreneurs can help raise the GDP right, and that fits within our overall mission of getting more women into top leadership roles in tech. >> You know, I was talking about Teresa Carlson she came on the program as well for this year this next season we're going to do. And she mentioned the decision between the US progress and international. And she's saying as much as it's still bad numbers, it's worse than outside the United States and needs to get better. Can you comment on the global aspect? You brought that up. I think it's super important to highlight that it's just not one area, it's a global evolution. >> Absolutely, so let me start, and I'd love to actually have Kate talk about our current programs and all of the international groups that we're working with. So as Teresa aptly mentioned there is so much work to be done not just outside the US and North Americas where typically tech nonprofits will focus, but rather if you think about the one to end model, right? For example when I was doing the product market fit workshop for the US State Department I had women dialing in from rice fields, right? So let me just pause there for a moment. They were holding their cell phones up near towers near trees just so that they can get a few minutes of time with me to do a workshop and how to accelerate their business. So if you don't call that the desire to propel oneself or accelerate oneself, not sure what is, right. And so it's really that passion that drove me to spend the next week and a half here working with local entrepreneurs working with policy makers so we can take advantage and really leverage that passion that people have, right? To accelerate more business globally. And so that's why, you know Kate will be leading our contingent with the United Nations Women Group, right? That is focused on women's economic empowerment because that's super important, right? One aspect can be sure, getting more directors, you know vice presidents into companies like Google and Amazon. But another is also how do you encourage more women around the world to start businesses, right? To reach economic and freedom independence, right? To overcome some of the maybe social barriers to becoming a leader in their own country. >> Yes, and if I think about our own programs and our model of being very intentional about supporting the learning development and skills of women and members of underrepresented groups we focused very much on providing global access to a number of our programs. For instance, our product management certification on Coursera or engineering management our upcoming women founders accelerator. We provide both access that you can get from anywhere. And then also very intentional programming that connects people into the networks to be able to further their networks and what they've learned through the skills online, so. >> Yeah, and something Kate just told me recently is these courses that Kate's mentioning, right? She was instrumental in working with the American Council on Education and so that our learners can actually get up to six college credits for taking these courses on product management engineering management, on cloud product management. And most recently we had our first organic one of our very first organic testimonials was from a woman's tech bootcamp in Nigeria, right? So if you think about the worldwide impact of these upskilling courses where frankly in the US we might take for granted right around the world as I mentioned, there are women dialing in from rice patties from other, you know, for example, outside the, you know corporate buildings in order to access this content. >> Can you think about the idea of, oh sorry, go ahead. >> Go ahead, no, go ahead Kate. >> I was going to say, if you can't see it, you can't become it. And so we are very intentional about ensuring that we have we're spotlighting the expertise of women and we are broadcasting that everywhere so that anybody coming up can gain the skills and the networks to be able to succeed in this industry. >> We'll make sure we get those links so we can promote them. Obviously we feel the same way getting the word out. I think a couple things I'd like to ask you guys cause I think you hit a great point. One is the economic advantage the numbers prove that diverse teams perform better number one, that's clear. So good point there. But I want to get your thoughts on the entrepreneurial equation. You mentioned founders and startups and there's also different makeups in different countries. It's not like the big corporations sometimes it's smaller business in certain areas the different cultures have different business sizes and business types. How do you guys see that factoring in outside the United States, say the big tech companies? Okay, yeah. The easy lower the access to get in education than stay with them, in other countries is it the same or is it more diverse in terms of business? >> So what really actually got us started with the US State Department was around our work with women founders. And I love for Kate to actually share her experience working with AWS startups in that capacity. But frankly, you know, we looked at the content and the mentor programs that were providing women who wanted to be executives, you know, quickly realize a lot of those same skills such as finding customers, right? Scaling your product and building channels can also apply to women founders, not just executives. And so early supporters of our efforts from firms such as Moderna up in Seattle, Emergence Ventures, Decibel Ventures in, you know, the Bay Area and a few others that we're working with right now. Right, they believed in the mission and really helped us scale out what is now our existing platform and offerings for women founders. >> Those are great firms by the way. And they also are very founder friendly and also understand the global workforce. I mean, that's a whole nother dimension. Okay, what's your reaction to all that? >> Yes, we have been very intentional about taking the product expertise and the learnings of women and in our network, we first worked with AWS startups to support the development of the curriculum for the recent accelerator for women founders that was held last spring. And so we're able to support 25 founders and also brought in the expertise of about 20 or 30 women from Advancing Women in Tech to be able to be the lead instructors and mentors for that. And so we have really realized that with this network and this individual sort of focus on product expertise building strong teams, we can take that information and bring it to folks everywhere. And so there is very much the intentionality of allowing founders allowing individuals to take the lessons and bring it to their individual circumstances and the cultures in which they are operating. But the product sense is a skill that we can support the development of and we're proud to do so. >> That's awesome. Nancy, I want to ask you some never really talk about data storage and AWS cloud greatness and goodness, here's different and you also work full-time at AWS and you're the founder or the chairman of this great organization. How do you balance both and do you get, they're getting behind you on this, Amazon is getting behind you on this. >> Well, as I say it's always easier to negotiate on the way in. But jokes aside, I have to say the leadership has been tremendously supportive. If you think about, for example, my leaders Wayne Duso who's also been on the show multiple times, Bill Vaas who's also been on the show multiple times, you know they're both founders and also operators entrepreneurs at heart. So they understand that it is important, right? For all of us, it's really incumbent on all of us who are in positions to do so, to create a pathway for more people to be in leadership roles for more people to be successful entrepreneurs. So, no, I mean if you just looked at LinkedIn they're always uploading my vote so they reach to more audiences. And frankly they're rooting for us back home in the US while we're in Malaysia this week. >> That's awesome. And I think that's a good culture to have that empowerment and I think that's very healthy. What's next for you guys? What's on the agenda? Take us through the activities. I know that you got a ton of things happening. You got your event out there, which is why you're out there. There's a bunch of other activities. I think you guys call it the Advancing Women in Tech week. >> Yes, this week we are having a week of programming that you can check out at Advancing Women in Tech.org. That is spotlighting the expertise of a number of women in our space. So it is three days of programming Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday if you are in the US so the seventh through the ninth, but available globally. We are also going to be in New York next week for the event at the UN and are looking to continue to support our mentorship programs and also our work supporting women founders throughout the year. >> All right. I have to ask you guys if you don't mind get a little market data so you can share with us here at theCUBE. What are you hearing this year that's different in the conversation space around the topics, the interests? Obviously I've seen massive amounts of global acceleration around conversations, more video, things like this more stories are scaling, a lot more LinkedIn activity. It just seems like it's a lot different this year. Can you guys share any kind of current trends you're seeing relative to the conversations and topics being discussed across the the community? >> Well, I think from a needle moving perspective, right? I think due to the efforts of wonderful organizations including the Q for spotlighting all of these awesome women, right? Trailblazing women and the nonprofits the government entities that we work with there's definitely more emphasis on creating access and creating pathways. So that's probably one thing that you're seeing is more women, more investors posting about their activities. Number two, from a global trend perspective, right? The rise of women in security. I noticed that on your agenda today, you had Lena Smart who's a good friend of mine chief information security officer at MongoDB, right? She and I are actually quite involved in helping founders especially early stage founders in the security space. And so globally from a pure technical perspective, right? There's right more increasing regulations around data privacy, data sovereignty, right? For example, India's in a few weeks about to get their first data protection regulation there locally. So all of that is giving rise to yet another wave of opportunity and we want women founders uniquely positioned to take advantage of that opportunity. >> I love it. Kate, reaction to that? I mean founders, more pathways it sounds like a neural network, it sounds like AI enabled. >> Yes, and speaking of AI, with the rise of that we are also hearing from many community members the importance of continuing to build their skills upskill learn to be able to keep up with the latest trends. There's a lot of people wondering what does this mean for my own career? And so they're turning to organizations like Advancing Women in Tech to find communities to both learn the latest information, but also build their networks so that they are able to move forward regardless of what the industry does. >> I love the work you guys are doing. It's so impressive. I think the economic angle is new it's more amplified this year. It's always kind of been there and continues to be. What do you guys hope for by next year this time what do you hope to see different from a needle moving perspective, to use your word Nancy, for next year? What's the visual output in your mind? >> I want to see real effort made towards 50-50 representation in all tech leadership roles. And I'd like to see that happen by 2050. >> Kate, anything on your end? >> I love that. I'm going to go a little bit more touchy-feely. I want everybody in our space to understand that the skills that they build and that the networks they have carry with them regardless of wherever they go. And so to be able to really lean in and learn and continue to develop the career that you want to have. So whether that be at a large organization or within your own business, that you've got the potential to move forward on that within you. >> Nancy, Kate, thank you so much for your contribution. I'll give you the final word. Put a plug in for the organization. What are you guys looking for? Any kind of PSA you want to share with the folks watching? >> Absolutely, so if you're in a position to be a mentor, join as a mentor, right? Help elevate and accelerate the next generation of women leaders. If you're an investor help us invest in more women started companies, right? Women founded startups and lastly, if you are women looking to accelerate your career, come join our community. We have resources, we have mentors and who we have investors who are willing to come in on the ground floor and help you accelerate your business. >> Great work. Thank you so much for participating in our International Women's Day 23 program and we'd look to keep this going quarterly. We'll see you next year, next time. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >> Thanks so much John. >> Thank you. >> Okay, women leaders here. >> Nancy: Thanks for having us >> All over the world, coming together for a great celebration but really highlighting the accomplishments, the pathways the investment, the mentoring, everything in between. It's theCUBE. Bring as much as we can. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching.

>> We're back at the ARIA Las Vegas. We're covering CrowdStrike's Fal.Con 22. First one since 2019. Dave Vellante and Dave Nicholson on theCUBE. Adam Meyers is here, he is the Senior Vice President of Intelligence at CrowdStrike. Adam, thanks for coming to theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me. >> Interesting times, isn't it? You're very welcome. Senior Vice President of Intelligence, tell us what your role is. >> So I run all of our intelligence offerings. All of our analysts, we have a couple hundred analysts that work at CrowdStrike tracking threat actors. There's 185 threat actors that we track today. We're constantly adding more of them and it requires us to really have that visibility and understand how they operate so that we can inform our other products: our XDR, our Cloud Workload Protections and really integrate all of this around the threat actor. >> So it's that threat hunting capability that CrowdStrike has. That's what you're sort of... >> Well, so think of it this way. When we launched the company 11 years ago yesterday, what we wanted to do was to tell customers, to tell people that, well, you don't have a malware problem, you have an adversary problem. There are humans that are out there conducting these attacks, and if you know who they are what they're up to, how they operate then you're better positioned to defend against them. And so that's really at the core, what CrowdStrike started with and all of our products are powered by intelligence. All of our services are our OverWatch and our Falcon complete, all powered by intelligence because we want to know who the threat actors are and what they're doing so we can stop them. >> So for instance like you can stop known malware. A lot of companies can stop known malware, but you also can stop unknown malware. And I infer that the intelligence is part of that equation, is that right? >> Absolutely. That that's the outcome. That's the output of the intelligence but I could also tell you who these threat actors are, where they're operating out of, show you pictures of some of them, that's the threat intel. We are tracking down to the individual persona in many cases, these various threats whether they be Chinese nation state, Russian threat actors, Iran, North Korea, we track as I said, quite a few of these threats. And over time, we develop a really robust deep knowledge about who they are and how they operate. >> Okay. And we're going to get into some of that, the big four and cyber. But before we do, I want to ask you about the eCrime index stats, the ECX you guys call it a little side joke for all your nerds out there. Maybe you could explain that Adam >> Assembly humor. >> Yeah right, right. So, but, what is that index? You guys, how often do you publish it? What are you learning from that? >> Yeah, so it was modeled off of the Dow Jones industrial average. So if you look at the Dow Jones it's a composite index that was started in the late 1800s. And they took a couple of different companies that were the industrial component of the economy back then, right. Textiles and railroads and coal and steel and things like that. And they use that to approximate the overall health of the economy. So if you take these different stocks together, swizzle 'em together, and figure out some sort of number you could say, look, it's up. The economy's doing good. It's down, not doing so good. So after World War II, everybody was exuberant and positive about the end of the war. The DGI goes up, the oil crisis in the seventies goes down, COVID hits goes up, sorry, goes down. And then everybody realizes that they can use Amazon still and they can still get the things they need goes back up with the eCrime index. We took that approach to say what is the health of the underground economy? When you read about any of these ransomware attacks or data extortion attacks there are criminal groups that are working together in order to get things spammed out or to buy credentials and things like that. And so what the eCrime index does is it takes 24 different observables, right? The price of a ransom, the number of ransom attacks, the fluctuation in cryptocurrency, how much stolen material is being sold for on the underground. And we're constantly computing this number to understand is the eCrime ecosystem healthy? Is it thriving or is it under pressure? And that lets us understand what's going on in the world and kind of contextualize it. Give an example, Microsoft on patch Tuesday releases 56 vulnerabilities. 11 of them are critical. Well guess what? After hack Tuesday. So after patch Tuesday is hack Wednesday. And so all of those 11 vulnerabilities are exploitable. And now you have threat actors that have a whole new array of weapons that they can deploy and bring to bear against their victims after that patch Tuesday. So that's hack Wednesday. Conversely we'll get something like the colonial pipeline. Colonial pipeline attack May of 21, I think it was, comes out and all of the various underground forums where these ransomware operators are doing their business. They freak out because they don't want law enforcement. President Biden is talking about them and he's putting pressure on them. They don't want this ransomware component of what they're doing to bring law enforcement, bring heat on them. So they deplatform them. They kick 'em off. And when they do that, the ransomware stops being as much of a factor at that point in time. And the eCrime index goes down. So we can look at holidays, and right around Thanksgiving, which is coming up pretty soon, it's going to go up because there's so much online commerce with cyber Monday and such, right? You're going to see this increase in online activity; eCrime actors want to take advantage of that. When Christmas comes, they take vacation too; they're going to spend time with their families, so it goes back down and it stays down till around the end of the Russian Orthodox Christmas, which you can probably extrapolate why that is. And then it goes back up. So as it's fluctuating, it gives us the ability to really just start tracking what that economy looks like. >> Realtime indicator of that crypto. >> I mean, you talked about, talked about hack Wednesday, and before that you mentioned, you know, the big four, and I think you said 185 threat actors that you're tracking, is 180, is number 185 on that list? Somebody living in their basement in their mom's basement or are the resources necessary to get on that list? Such that it's like, no, no, no, no. this is very, very organized, large groups of people. Hollywood would have you believe that it's guy with a laptop, hack Wednesday, (Dave Nicholson mimics keyboard clacking noises) and everything done. >> Right. >> Are there individuals who are doing things like that or are these typically very well organized? >> That's a great question. And I think it's an important one to ask and it's both it tends to be more, the bigger groups. There are some one-off ones where it's one or two people. Sometimes they get big. Sometimes they get small. One of the big challenges. Have you heard of ransomware as a service? >> Of course. Oh my God. Any knucklehead can be a ransomwarist. >> Exactly. So we don't track those knuckleheads as much unless they get onto our radar somehow, they're conducting a lot of operations against our customers or something like that. But what we do track is that ransomware as a service platform because the affiliates, the people that are using it they come, they go and, you know, it could be they're only there for a period of time. Sometimes they move between different ransomware services, right? They'll use the one that's most useful for them that that week or that month, they're getting the best rate because it's rev sharing. They get a percentage that platform gets percentage of the ransom. So, you know, they negotiate a better deal. They might move to a different ransomware platform. So that's really hard to track. And it's also, you know, I think more important for us to understand the platform and the technology that is being used than the individual that's doing it. >> Yeah. Makes sense. Alright, let's talk about the big four. China, Iran, North Korea, and Russia. Tell us about, you know, how you monitor these folks. Are there different signatures for each? Can you actually tell, you know based on the hack who's behind it? >> So yeah, it starts off, you know motivation is a huge factor. China conducts espionage, they do it for diplomatic purposes. They do it for military and political purposes. And they do it for economic espionage. All of these things map to known policies that they put out, the Five Year Plan, the Made in China 2025, the Belt and Road Initiative, it's all part of their efforts to become a regional and ultimately a global hegemon. >> They're not stealing nickels and dimes. >> No they're stealing intellectual property. They're stealing trade secrets. They're stealing negotiation points. When there's, you know a high speed rail or something like that. And they use a set of tools and they have a set of behaviors and they have a set of infrastructure and a set of targets that as we look at all of these things together we can derive who they are by motivation and the longer we observe them, the more data we get, the more we can get that attribution. I could tell you that there's X number of Chinese threat groups that we track under Panda, right? And they're associated with the Ministry of State Security. There's a whole other set. That's too associated with the People's Liberation Army Strategic Support Force. So, I mean, these are big operations. They're intelligence agencies that are operating out of China. Iran has a different set of targets. They have a different set of motives. They go after North American and Israeli businesses right now that's kind of their main operation. And they're doing something called hack and lock and leak. With a lock and leak, what they're doing is they're deploying ransomware. They don't care about getting a ransom payment. They're just doing it to disrupt the target. And then they're leaking information that they steal during that operation that brings embarrassment. It brings compliance, regulatory, legal impact for that particular entity. So it's disruptive >> The chaos creators that's.. >> Well, you know I think they're trying to create a they're trying to really impact the legitimacy of some of these targets and the trust that their customers and their partners and people have in them. And that is psychological warfare in a certain way. And it, you know is really part of their broader initiative. Look at some of the other things that they've done they've hacked into like the missile defense system in Israel, and they've turned on the sirens, right? Those are all things that they're doing for a specific purpose, and that's not China, right? Like as you start to look at this stuff, you can start to really understand what they're up to. Russia very much been busy targeting NATO and NATO countries and Ukraine. Obviously the conflict that started in February has been a huge focus for these threat actors. And then as we look at North Korea, totally different. They're doing, there was a major crypto attack today. They're going after these crypto platforms, they're going after DeFi platforms. They're going after all of this stuff that most people don't even understand and they're stealing the crypto currency and they're using it for revenue generation. These nuclear weapons don't pay for themselves, their research and development don't pay for themselves. And so they're using that cyber operation to either steal money or steal intelligence. >> They need the cash. Yeah. >> Yeah. And they also do economic targeting because Kim Jong Un had said back in 2016 that they need to improve the lives of North Koreans. They have this national economic development strategy. And that means that they need, you know, I think only 30% of North Korea has access to reliable power. So having access to clean energy sources and renewable energy sources, that's important to keep the people happy and stop them from rising up against the regime. So that's the type of economic espionage that they're conducting. >> Well, those are the big four. If there were big five or six, I would presume US and some Western European countries would be on there. Do you track, I mean, where United States obviously has you know, people that are capable of this we're out doing our thing, and- >> So I think- >> That defense or offense, where do we sit in this matrix? >> Well, I think the big five would probably include eCrime. We also track India, Pakistan. We track actors out of Columbia, out of Turkey, out of Syria. So there's a whole, you know this problem is getting worse over time. It's proliferating. And I think COVID was also, you know a driver there because so many of these countries couldn't move human assets around because everything was getting locked down. As machine learning and artificial intelligence and all of this makes its way into the cameras at border and transfer points, it's hard to get a human asset through there. And so cyber is a very attractive, cheap and deniable form of espionage and gives them operational capabilities, not, you know and to your question about US and other kind of five I friendly type countries we have not seen them targeting our customers. So we focus on the threats that target our customers. >> Right. >> And so, you know, if we were to find them at a customer environment sure. But you know, when you look at some of the public reporting that's out there, the malware that's associated with them is focused on, you know, real bad people, and it's, it's physically like crypted to their hard drive. So unless you have sensor on, you know, an Iranian or some other laptop that might be target or something like that. >> Well, like Stuxnet did. >> Yeah. >> Right so. >> You won't see it. Right. See, so yeah. >> Well Symantec saw it but way back when right? Back in the day. >> Well, I mean, if you want to go down that route I think it actually came from a company in the region that was doing the IR and they were working with Symantec. >> Oh, okay. So, okay. So it was a local >> Yeah. I think Crisis, I think was the company that first identified it. And then they worked with Symantec. >> It Was, they found it, I guess, a logic controller. I forget what it was. >> It was a long time ago, so I might not have that completely right. >> But it was a seminal moment in the industry. >> Oh. And it was a seminal moment for Iran because you know, that I think caused them to get into cyber operations. Right. When they realized that something like that could happen that bolstered, you know there was a lot of underground hacking forums in Iran. And, you know, after Stuxnet, we started seeing that those hackers were dropping their hacker names and they were starting businesses. They were starting to try to go after government contracts. And they were starting to build training offensive programs, things like that because, you know they realized that this is an opportunity there. >> Yeah. We were talking earlier about this with Shawn and, you know, in the nuclear war, you know the Cold War days, you had the mutually assured destruction. It's not as black and white in the cyber world. Right. Cause as, as Robert Gates told me, you know a few years ago, we have a lot more to lose. So we have to be somewhat, as the United States, careful as to how much of an offensive posture we take. >> Well here's a secret. So I have a background on political science. So mutually assured destruction, I think is a deterrent strategy where you have two kind of two, two entities that like they will destroy each other if they so they're disinclined to go down that route. >> Right. >> With cyber I really don't like that mutually assured destruction >> That doesn't fit right. >> I think it's deterrents by denial. Right? So raising the cost, if they were to conduct a cyber operation, raising that cost that they don't want to do it, they don't want to incur the impact of that. Right. And think about this in terms of a lot of people are asking about would China invade Taiwan. And so as you look at the cost that that would have on the Chinese military, the POA, the POA Navy et cetera, you know, that's that deterrents by denial, trying to, trying to make the costs so high that they don't want to do it. And I think that's a better fit for cyber to try to figure out how can we raise the cost to the adversary if they operate against our customers against our enterprises and that they'll go someplace else and do something else. >> Well, that's a retaliatory strike, isn't it? I mean, is that what you're saying? >> No, definitely not. >> It's more of reducing their return on investment essentially. >> Yeah. >> And incenting them- disincening them to do X and sending them off somewhere else. >> Right. And threat actors, whether they be criminals or nation states, you know, Bruce Lee had this great quote that was "be like water", right? Like take the path of least resistance, like water will. Threat actors do that too. So, I mean, unless you're super high value target that they absolutely have to get into by any means necessary, then if you become too hard of a target, they're going to move on to somebody that's a little easier. >> Makes sense. Awesome. Really appreciate your, I could, we'd love to have you back. >> Anytime. >> Go deeper. Adam Myers. We're here at Fal.Con 22, Dave Vellante, Dave Nicholson. We'll be right back right after this short break. (bouncy music plays)

>>Okay, welcome back everyone to the Cube's live coverage here in Monaco for the MoCo crypto summit. I'm John fur. You're host of the cube. We got a great guest Dustin plant Boltz who is a crypto advisor, but also the crypto editor for Forbes Monaco here. Seeing the official event, the AAL event of the Monaco crypto summit in Monaco, your coverage area for Forbes, your MCing. Welcome to the >>Cube. Thank you for having me. And it's, it's always fun when I get to have an event in our backyard, cuz I get to hear what others know. And to me I'm very curious. Yeah. Always >>Learning. So you're on the MC on the stage here, you know, queue in the program online great program. So it's innovative event, inaugural event, great name by the way. Crypto summit and mono crypto >>Summit. Yeah, the MoCo crypto summit. >>That sounds like I want to attend every year. >>You're you're more than welcome to attend next year. >>Well, I hope so. Either way. I'm at the Al event with you. So gimme the take on what's on stage. What's been the program, like what's your observations going on here at the event today? >>So what we're starting to see globally is this digitization of things and the people that are part of the innovation side. And so that's what we've been able to see this morning. We're we're now at the break is what sort of companies are out there, the good ones and what are they building? Is this innovation? Is it even innovative and figuring out how they're gonna do it and the roadmaps to getting there from the metaverses to NFTs and even to decentralized finance. >>Yeah, it's the number one question I get is what's legit. What's not legit. And then you're starting to see the, the, the wheat and the shaft separating here and you know, something called crypto winter. But I don't see it. I mean, I see correction for some of the bad things going on in terms of not having the right underpinning infrastructure, the creative ideas are amazing. We're also seeing like digital bits and other platforms kind of coming together to enable the creators and, and the NFT side for instance has been huge. What has been your observation on that enablement? Because you have two schools of thoughts. You have the total nerds we're up and down building everything. Then you have artists and creators, whether it's music, tech apps building, they don't necessarily want to get 'em to the covers. They don't want to deal with all that. Yeah. Have you seen, what's your, what's your take on that? >>So I I'm seeing that a lot of these major brands, you know, they they're striving for excellence. You know, they're being more careful of who they partner with and the types of companies and you know, they, they look at it from reality and a little tough love to figure out should they align their brand. So what we're seeing here is is that there is so much inertia moving forward. That we're just at the beginning of this thing. Yeah. McKinsey recently said that the ecosystem will be over $30 trillion. So when you recognize that we are so early and it's those right now, or some might say are the risk takers. But to me there, aren't taking risk. They're being a part of making history. >>Yeah. You get the pioneers and you get the financial. So as they come together, how do you see the market? Cause what I've noticed with crypto and here in, in this, this market is international. One lot of international finance us is kind of lag behind. You got all kinds of rules, but you got the, the combination of the, the future billionaires. Sure. Okay. The pioneers and then the financeers yeah. Coming the money, the money and the power coming together. What's your reporting show you that's going on right now? What should people know about on how this is evolving? What they shouldn't >>Expect? Well, so you have a group that wants to become cryers they're seeing these individuals globally. They're making lots and lots of money, but what they don't realize is that not everybody is gonna have that outcome, but looking at the technology aspect of it and how it's going to improve a system that many can agree is collectively broken legacy just can't move beyond. It was never designed to you'll see people take shots at certain card companies and I go, but you recognize they developed the assembly line. And so I'm seeing that the smart money they got in long ago, believe it or not. And those now they're looking out for their errors are the ones that saying, I will not have an excuse when my, my grandkids or my, my nieces or my nephews, when they come and ask, where were you when the greatest transformational shift in human history, from both education to jobs, to careers and even wealth was being shifted to a digital world, why were you on the sideline waiting? And so I think what we're gonna see is this tsunami coming, and it's gonna start with one big player and then two and five, you go, go alone. You go far, go together. You go further. And that's what we're seeing is that this collective is moving forward >>And the community, we just had Beth Kaiser on, I've known Beth for many, many years. And she's what she's her journey has done. She's had a great mission and then gets she's a data scientist and came to Analytica. Now she's doing work with Ukraine and the rallying support around it has been impressive. And it's a community vibe, but the community's not just like sympathetic they're hands on together to your point. >>Yeah. It, but it also takes courage. I mean, you look at Britney Kaiser and what she had, and to me, courage is not, not having fear. Courage is not allowing the fear to stop. You, you know, recently asked my executive coach, who's 85 and I'm turning 39. This question of, do you let fear stop you? How do you decide? And he said, you know, you can either let, you can either ride the dragon. And I said, or let the dragon chase you. And Brittany has been one of these that made a decision to do what was right. And it came down to integrity. Yeah. >>So what are you have to these days what's going on in your world? >>What is going on in my world? So I moderate events all over and I connect and I like to ask people questions. So I'm gonna ask you, I'm gonna turn at the interviewer on the >>Interview. It's good. Natural. >>What are you learning? >>I mean, I'm learning, I mean today or this week or this month or this year. Well, I was just talking with Brittany about this. The security world is converging cloud technology, cloud computing. That revolution has just been amazing. Amazon posted their earnings yesterday. They blew it away as far as I'm concerned. So they kind of show there's no tech recession. I've learned that this recession, that we're so called in is the first downturn in tech where there's been cloud players as hyperscalers as an economic engine. Okay. So from a, from a business perspective, Amazon web services, Microsoft Azure now Google cloud, Alibaba's now in, in international version. This is the first time at downturns ever happened with cloud computing as an economic engine. And so therefore what I'm seeing is the digital transformation that's happening across the world for enterprises and entrepreneurs is not stopping. >>It's actually accelerating. So although the GDPs down in inflation is down, you're seeing a massive shift continuing to accelerate, spending and transformation with cloud technologies and decentralized. So you can almost see it kind of in the, this event and other events, even some of the bigger events, the best smartest people are working on it. The applications in all the categories are transforming. If cloud is step one, decentralized gonna be step two. So I see that kind of bridge going from cloud computing, cloud native to decentralized native. And I think a D DAPP market's gonna just explode. I think NFTs are just scratched on the surface. I think that's kind of, I won't say gimmicky, but I think no, but you're right, much more of a much more of a, an illustration that there's more coming. >>There is a lot more coming because people are seeing that there's more to an NFT than an ugly luck and J you know, ugly and JP image that there's, that there's data in there. And that your avatar will be stored as just that as an NFT. And I learned today from go of sing, that decentralization is, is the key to innovation. And I agree with that statement. Holy. >>Yeah. I mean, I think access to stuff is gonna be multidimensional. Like you think about the NFT as, as an ID, whether it's him or UN unstoppable domains is that company just got financing another round where the billion dollars, their concept is like, Hey, one NFT is your access for all of your potential identities in context. >>And isn't that exciting that we're now gonna be at this stage where you travel with you. Yeah. Instead of someone else traveling with you, you get to decide who you will be. And to me, everything you're doing in this world, this reality is now becoming part of your digital asset as a whole. >>I remember when I started my podcasting company in 20 2004, early pioneers, Evan Williams was there with Odo and you had, you know, the blogging revolution going on that whole democratization wave actually didn't happen right then. But all the people that were involved in that web two oh, kind of CRAs was all about democratization. It's kind of happening now. I mean, 15, 20 years later at web services is transformed cloud the democratization for own your own data, putting users in control. And I think in the middle of that, the Facebook's the world, the world garden data, you know, manipulation kind of took it off track a little bit. So I think now I'm, I psych to see that it's back on track to where it was. I mean, Facebook made billions of dollars. Now you got LinkedIn. I mean, LinkedIn's great for your resume, but it's also become a wall's garden with no data export. >>Yeah. And then >>No APIs keep >>Changing. Think about this. That if you wanna apply for a job, just change something quickly. Yeah. Ah, now you're the senior VP. Yeah. Before you were, you're an office manager >>Like to see the immutable block change, >>You don't get to see when did the record change. Yeah. >>Reputation data. You're a digital exhaust people gonna wanna reign that in. And I think the user in charge message that Brit Kaiser was talks about is hugely a mess under, under, under amplified concept. Digital assets are key, but the data ownership is something that I think is, is >>Powerful. So I'm gonna be launching a brand new company in and around September called cryptos. And it's a crypto career center. Think of it like the, the crypto for LinkedIn, that it's an aggregator becoming the industry standard for education, becoming the industry standard for crypto ships, with partners like ledger and moon pay and Casper labs. >>Look at this, we got an exclusive scoop on the cube. This >>Is the first time I will tell you this the first time in, in an environment like this. Yeah. That I'm excited to, I'm excited to talk about, right. Because it's time to be part of the change. Yeah, exactly. You know, as a father, I look at, I know where it's headed in the world of business. I know in the world of this, that we're gonna call the internet of connected things. Yeah. That it's gonna require you to have a certain talent skill or a certain certification. And to me, it's important to have an industry that supports one >>Staff and also, and also history on misinformation, smear campaigns can happen and ruin a career >>Overnight. Can you imagine that one little thing and because the internet never forgets. Yeah. It stays around indefinitely. >>The truth has to come out. Dustin. Great to have you on the queue. Thank you so much. Final question. What have you learned in there is MC what's your takeaway real quick? >>What I've learned is I never tire of learning. Thank you again, to learn more. Dustin plan.com. >>All right. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Cube coverage here at Monaco. I'm Shawn furry. We'll back with more coverage after this short break.

>>The cube presents, Coon and cloud native con Europe 22, brought to you by the cloud native computing foundation. >>Welcome to Valencia Spain and coverage of Q con cloud native con Europe, 2022. I'm Keith Townsend. You're a host of the cube along with Paul Gillum, senior editor, enterprise architecture for Silicon angle, ENCO, senior ready, senior it analyst for giga own. Uh, this has been a full day, 7,500 attendees. I might have seen them run out of food. This is just unexpected. I mean, they, the, it escalated from what understand it went from four, capping it off to 4,000 gold, 5,000 gold in and off. Finally at 7,500 people. I'm super excited for, you know, today's been a great day of coverage. I'm super excited for tomorrow's coverage, uh, from the cube. But first off, we'll let the, the new person on stage take the, the first question of, of the wrap up of the day of coverage, UN Rico on Rico. What's different about this year versus other Q coupons or cloud native conversations. >>I, I think in general, it's the maturity. So we talk it a lot about day two operations, uh, observability monitoring, uh, going deeper and deeper in the security aspects of the application. So this means that for many enterprises, Kubernetes is becoming real critical. They want to, to get more control of it. And of course you have the discussion around Phen op around, you know, uh, cost control because we are deploying Kubernetes everywhere. And, and if you don't have everything optimized control, monitor it, you know, uh, cost to the roof and think about, uh, deploying the public cloud. If your application is not optimized, you're paying more, but also in the on premises, if you are not optimiz, you don't have the clear idea of what is going to happen. So capacity planning become the nightmare that we know from the past. So there is a lot of going on around these topics, uh, really exciting, actually less infrastructure, more replication. That is what Kubernetes is India. >>Paul help me separate some of the signal from the noise. Uh, there is a lot going on a lot of overlap. What are some of the big themes of takeaways for day one that enterprise architects executives need to take home and really chew >>On? Well, the Kubernetes was a turning point. You know, Docker was introduced nine years ago and for the first three or four years, it was an interesting technology that was not very widely adopted. Kubernetes came along and gave developers a reason to use containers. What strikes me about this conference is that this is a developer event, you know, ordinarily you go to conferences and it's geared toward it managers towards CIOs. This is very much geared toward developers when you have the hearts and minds of developers, the rest of the industry is sort of pulled along with it. So this is ground zero for the hottest, uh, the, the hottest area of the entire computing industry. Right now, I is in this area building distributed services, BA microservices based cloud native applications. And it's the developers who are leading the way. I think that's, that's a significant shift. I don't see the managers here, the CIOs here, these are the people who are, uh, who are pulling this industry into the next generation. >>Um, one of the interesting things that I've seen when we, you know, we've always said, Kubernetes is for the developers, but we talk with, uh, an icon from, uh, MoneyGram. Who's a end user, he's an enterprise architect. And he brought Kubernetes to his front end developers and they, they, they kind of rejected it. They said, what is this? I just wanna develop cold. So when we say Kubernetes is for developers, or the developers are here, where, how do we reconcile that mismatch of experience? We have enterprise architecture. I hear constantly that, that the, uh, Kubernetes is for developers, but is it a certain kind of developer that Kubernetes is for? >>Well, yes and no. I mean, so the paradigm is changing. Okay. So, and maybe a few years back, it was tough to understand how, you know, uh, uh, make your application different. So microservices, everything was new for everybody, but actually, so everything is changed to a point. Now, the developer understands, you know, it is neural. So, you know, going through the application APIs automation, because the complexity of this application is, is huge. And you have, you know, 7 24 kind of development, uh, sort of deployment. So you have to stay always on cetera, et cetera. And actually to the point of, you know, developers, uh, you know, bringing this new generation of, uh, decision makers in India. So they are actually decision, they are adopting technology. Maybe it's a sort of shadow it at the very beginning. So they're adopting it, they're using it. And they're starting to use a lot of open source stuff. And then somebody upper in the stack, the executive says, what are, yeah, they, they discover that the technology is already in place is, uh, is a critical component. And then it's, uh, you know, uh, transformed in something enterprise, meaning, you know, paying enterprise services on top of it to be sure con uh, contract and so on. So it's a real journey. And these are, these guys are the real decision makers. Oh, they are at the base of the decision making process. At least >>Cloud native is something we're gonna learn to take for granted. You know, when you remember back, remember the fail whale in the early days of Twitter, when periodically the service would just would just, uh, um, crash from, uh, from, uh, traffic or Amazon went through the same thing. Facebook went through the same thing. We don't see that anymore because we are now learning to take cloud native for granted. We assume applications are gonna be available. They're gonna be performant. They're gonna scale. They're gonna handle anything. We throw at them that is cloud native at work. And I think we, we forget sometimes how refreshing it is to have, uh, an internet that really works for you. >>Yeah. I, I think we're much earlier in the journey. You know, we have Microsoft, uh, on the Xbox team talked about 22,000 pods running ni D some of the initial problems and pain points of, uh, around those challenges. Uh, much of my hallway track conversation has been centered around as we talk about kind of the decision makers, the platform teams. And this is what I'm getting excited to talk about in tomorrow's coverage. Who's on the ground doing this stuff. Is it developers as we are, as, as we see or hear or told, or is it what we're seeing from the Microsoft example, the MoneyGram example where central it is kind of getting it, and not only are they getting it, they're enabling developers to, to simply write code, build it. And Kubernetes is invisible. It seems like that's become the holy grill to make Kubernetes invisible cloud native invisible, and the experience is much closer to cloud. >>So I, I think that, uh, um, it's an interesting, I mean, I had a lot of conversation in the past year is that it's not that the original, you know, traditional it operations are disappearing. So it's just that, uh, traditional it operation are giving resources to these new developers. Okay. So it's a, it's a sort of walled garden. You don't see the wall, but it's a walled garden. So they are giving you resources and you use these resources like an internal cloud. So a few years back, we were talking about private cloud, the private cloud, as, you know, as a, let's say, uh, the same identical paradigm of, of the public cloud. This is not possible because there are no infinite resources or, well, whatever we, we think are infinite resources. So what you're doing today is giving these developers enough resources to think that they are unlimited and they can, uh, do automatic provisioning and do all these kind of things. So they don't think about infrastructure at all, but actually it's there. So it operation are still there providing resources to let developers be more free and agile and everything. So we are still in a, I think in an interesting time for all of it, >>Kubernetes and cloud native in general, I think are blurring the lines, traditional lines development and operations always were separate entities, obviously through with DevOps. Those two are emerging, but now we're moving. When you add in shift left testing shift, right? Testing, uh, dev SecOps, you see the developers become much more involved in the infrastructure and they want to be involved in infrastructure because that's what makes their applications perform. So this is gonna, cause I think it organizations to have, do some rethinking about what those traditional lines are, maybe break down those walls and have these teams work, work much closer together. And that should be a good thing because the people who are developing applications should also have intimate knowledge of the infrastructure they're gonna run on. >>So Paul, another recurring theme that we've heard here is the impact of funding on resources. What have you, what have your discussions been around founders and creators when it comes to sourcing talent and the impact of the markets on just their day to day? >>Well, the sourcing talent has been a huge issue for the last year. Of course, really ever since the pandemic started interesting. We, uh, one of our, our guests earlier today said that with the meltdown in the tech stock market, actually talent has become more available because people who were tied to their companies because of their, their stock options are now seeing those options are underwater. And suddenly they're not as loyal to the companies they joined. So that's certainly for the, for the startups. Uh, there are many small startups here. Um, they're seeing a bit of a windfall now from the, uh, from the tech stock, uh, bust, um, nevertheless skills are a long term problem. The us, uh, educational system is turning out about 10% of the skilled people that the industry needs every year. And no one I know, sees an end to that issue anytime soon. >>So ENGO, last question to you, let's talk about what that means to the practitioner. There's a lot of opportunity out >>There. >>200 plus sponsors I hear here I think is, or the projects is 200 plus, where are the big opportunities as a practitioner, as I'm thinking about the next thing that I'm going to learn to help me survive the next 10 or 15 years of my career? Where, where do you think the focus should be? Should it be that low level, uh, cloud builder, or should it be at those Le levels of extraction that we're seeing and reading about? >>I, I think, I think that, uh, you know, it's, uh, it's a good question. The, the answer is not that easy. I mean, uh, being a developer today, for sure grants, you, you know, uh, a salary at the end of the month, I mean, there is high demand, but actually there are a lot of other technical, uh, figures in, in the, in, uh, in the data center in the cloud that could, you know, really find easily a job today. So developers is the first in my mind also because they are more, uh, they, they can serve multiple roles. It means you can be a developer, but actually you can be also, you know, with the new roles that we have, especially now with the DevOps, you can be, uh, somebody that supports operation because, you know, automation, you know, a few other things. So you can be a C admin of the next generation, even if you're a developer, even if when you start as a developer, >>Cuan 20, 22 is exciting. I don't care if you're a developer practitioner, a investor, a, uh, it decision maker is CIO CXO. They're so much to learn and absorb here and we're going to be covering it for the next two days. Me and Paul will be shoulder to shoulder. We will, you, I'm not gonna say you're gonna get sick of this because it's just, you know, it's all great information. We'll, we'll, we'll help sort all of this from Valencia Spain. I'm Keith Townsend, along with my host ENCO senior, the Paul Gillon. And you're watching the, you, the leader in high tech coverage.

(gentle music) >> From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCube Conversation. >> Hi everybody, this is Dave Vellante, we're back at Cube on Cloud, and with me is Muddu Sudhakar. He's a long time alum of theCube, a technologist and executive, a serial entrepreneur and an investor. Welcome my friend, good to see you. >> Good to see you, Dave. Pleasure to be with you. Happy elections, I guess. >> Yeah, yeah. So I wanted to start, this work from home, pivot's been amazing, and you've seen the enterprise collaboration explode. I wrote a piece a couple months ago, looking at valuations of various companies, right around the snowflake IPO, I want to ask you about that, but I was looking at the valuations of various companies, at Spotify, and Shopify, and of course Zoom was there. And I was looking at just simple revenue multiples, and I said, geez, Zoom actually looks, might look undervalued, which is crazy, right? And of course the stock went up after that, and you see teams, Microsoft Teams, and Microsoft doing a great job across the board, we've written about that, you're seeing Webex is exploding, I mean, what do you make of this whole enterprise collaboration play? >> No, I think the look there is a trend here, right? So I think this probably trend started before COVID, but COVID is going to probably accelerate this whole digital transformation, right? People are going to work remotely a lot more, not everybody's going to come back to the offices even after COVID, so I think this whole collaboration through Slack, and Zoom, and Microsoft Teams and Webex, it's going to be the new game now, right? Both the video, audio and chat solutions, that's really going to help people like eyeballs. You're not going to spend time on all four of them, right? It's like everyday from a consumer side, you're going to spend time on your Gmail, Facebook, maybe Twitter, maybe Instagram, so like in the consumer side, on your personal life, you have something on the enterprise. The eyeballs are going to be in these platforms. >> Yeah. Well. >> But we're not going to take everything. >> Well, So you are right, there's a permanence to this, and I got a lot of ground to cover with you. And I always like our conversations mood because you tell it like it is, I'm going to stay on that work from home pivot. You know a lot about security, but you've seen three big trends, like mega trends in security, Endpoint, Identity Access Management, and Cloud Security, you're seeing this in the stock prices of companies like CrowdStrike, Zscaler, Okta- >> Right >> Sailpoint- >> Right, I mean, they exploded, as a result of the pandemic, and I think I'm inferring from your comment that you see that as permanent, but that's a real challenge from a security standpoint. What's the impact of Cloud there? >> No, it isn't impact but look, first is all the services required to be Cloud, right? See, the whole ideas for it to collaborate and do these things. So you cannot be running an application, like you can't be running conference and SharePoint oN-Prem, and try to on a Zoom and MS teams. So that's why, if you look at Microsoft is very clever, they went with Office 365, SharePoint 365, now they have MS Teams, so I think that Cloud is going to drive all these workloads that you have been talking about a lot, right? You and John have been saying this for years now. The eruption of Cloud and SAS services are the vehicle to drive this next-generation collaboration. >> You know what's so cool? So Cloud obviously is the topic, I wonder how you look at the last 10 years of Cloud, and maybe we could project forward, I mean the big three Cloud vendors, they're running it like $20 billion a quarter, and they're growing collectively, 35, 40% clips, so we're really approaching a hundred billion dollars for these three. And you hear stats like only 20% of the workloads are in the public Cloud, so it feels like we're just getting started. How do you look at the impact of Cloud on the market, as you say, the last 10 years, and what do you expect going forward? >> No, I think it's very fascinating, right? So I remember when theCube, you guys are talking about 10 years back, now it's been what? More than 10 years, 15 years, since AWS came out with their first S3 service back in 2006. >> Right. >> Right? so I think look, Cloud is going to accelerate even more further. The areas is going to accelerate is for different reasons. I think now you're seeing the initial days, it's all about startups, initial workloads, Dev test and QA test, now you're talking about real production workloads are moving towards Cloud, right? Initially it was backup, we really didn't care for backup they really put there. Now you're going to have Cloud health primary services, your primary storage will be there, it's not going to be an EMC, It's not going to be a NetApp storage, right? So workloads are going to shift from the business applications, and these business applications, will be running on the Cloud, and I'll make another prediction, make customer service and support. Customer service and support, again, we should be running on the Cloud. You're not want to run the thing on a Dell server, or an IBM server, or an HP server, with your own hosted environment. That model is not because there's no economies of scale. So to your point, what will drive Cloud for the next 10 years, will be economies of scale. Where can you take the cost? How can I save money? If you don't move to the Cloud, you won't save money. So all those workloads are going to go to the Cloud are people who really want to save, like global gradual custom, right? If you stay on the ASP model, a hosted, you're not going to save your costs, your costs will constantly go up from a SaaS perspective. >> So that doesn't bode well for all the On-prem guys, and you hear a lot of the vendors that don't own a Cloud that talk about repatriation, but the numbers don't support that. So what do those guys do? I mean, they're talking multi-Cloud, of course they're talking hybrid, that's IBM's big play, how do you see it? >> I think, look, see there, to me, multi-Cloud makes sense, right? You don't want one vendor that you never want to get, so having Amazon, Microsoft, Google, it gives them a multi-Cloud. Even hybrid Cloud does make sense, right? There'll be some workloads. It's like, we are still running On-prem environment, we still have mainframe, so it's never going to be a hundred percent, but I would say the majority, your question is, can we get to 60, 70, 80% workers in the next 10 years? I think you will. I think by 2025, more than 78% of the Cloud Migration by the next five years, 70% of workload for enterprise will be on the Cloud. The remaining 25, maybe Hybrid, maybe On-prem, but I get panics, really doesn't matter. You have saved and part of your business is running on the Cloud. That's your cost saving, that's where you'll see the economies of scale, and that's where all the growth will happen. >> So square the circle for me, because again, you hear the stat on the IDC stat, IBM Ginni Rometty puts it out there a lot that only 20% of the workloads are in the public Cloud, everything else is On-prem, but it's not a zero sum game, right? I mean the Cloud native stuff is growing like crazy, the On-prem stuff is flat to down, so what's going to happen? When you talk about 70% of the workloads will be in the Cloud, do you see those mission critical apps and moving into the car, I mean the insurance companies going to put their claims apps in the Cloud, or the financial services companies going to put their mission critical workloads in the Cloud, or they just going to develop new stuff that's Cloud native that is sort of interacts with the On-prem. How do you see that playing out? >> Yeah, no, I think absolutely, I think a very good question. So two things will happen. I think if you take an enterprise, right? Most businesses what they'll do is the workloads that they should not be running On-prem, they'll move it up. So obviously things like take, as I said, I use the word SharePoint, right? SharePoint and conference, all the knowledge stuff is still running on people's data centers. There's no reason. I understand, I've seen statistics that 70, 80% of the On-prem for SharePoint will move to SharePoint on the Cloud. So Microsoft is going to make tons of money on that, right? Same thing, databases, right? Whether it's CQL server, whether there is Oracle database, things that you are running as a database, as a Cloud, we move to the Cloud. Whether that is posted in Oracle Cloud, or you're running Oracle or Mongo DB, or Dynamo DB on AWS or SQL server Microsoft, that's going to happen. Then what you're talking about is really the App concept, the applications themselves, the App server. Is the App server is going to run On-prem, how much it's going to laureate outside? There may be a hybrid Cloud, like for example, Kafka. I may use a Purse running on a Kafka as a service, or I may be using Elasticsearch for my indexing on AWS or Google Cloud, but I may be running my App locally. So there'll be some hybrid place, but what I would say is for every application, 75% of your Comprende will be on the Cloud. So think of it like the Dev. So even for the On-prem app, you're not going to be a 100 percent On-prem. The competent, the billing materials will move to the Cloud, your Purse, your storage, because if you put it On-prem, you need to add all this, you need to have all the whole things to buy it and hire the people, so that's what is going to happen. So from a competent perspective, 70% of your bill of materials will move to the Cloud, even for an On-prem application. >> So, Of course, the susification of the industry in the last decade and in my three favorite companies last decade, you've worked for two of them, Tableau, ServiceNow, and Splunk. I want to ask you about those, but I'm interested in the potential disruption there. I mean, you've got these SAS companies, Salesforce of course is another one, but they can't get started in 1999. What do you see happening with those? I mean, we're basically building these sort of large SAS, platforms, now. Do you think that the Cloud native world that developers can come at this from an angle where they can disrupt those companies, or are they too entrenched? I mean, look at service now, I mean, I don't know, $80 billion market capital where they are, they bigger than Workday, I mean, just amazing how much they've grown and you feel like, okay, nothing can stop them, but there's always disruption in this industry, what are your thoughts on that. >> Not very good with, I think there'll be disrupted. So to me actually to your point, ServiceNow is now close to a 100 billion now, 95 billion market coverage, crazy. So from evaluation perspective, so I think the reason they'll be disrupted is that the SAS vendors that you talked about, ServiceNow, and all this plan, most of these services, they're truly not a multi-tenant or what do you call the Cloud Native. And that is the Accenture. So because of that, they will not be able to pass the savings back to the enterprises. So the cost economics, the economics that the Cloud provides because of the multi tenancy ability will not. The second reason there'll be disrupted is AI. So far, we talked about Cloud, but AI is the core. So it's not really Cloud Native, Dave, I look at the AI in a two-piece. AI is going to change, see all the SAS vendors were created 20 years back, if you remember, was an operator typing it, I don't respond administered we'll type a Splunk query. I don't need a human to type a query anymore, system will actually find it, that's what the whole security game has changed, right? So what's going to happen is if you believe in that, that AI, your score will disrupt all the SAS vendors, so one angle SAS is going to have is a Cloud. That's where you make the Cloud will take up because a SAS application will be Cloudified. Being SAS is not Cloud, right? Second thing is SAS will be also, I call it, will be AI-fied. So AI and machine learning will be trying to drive at the core so that I don't need that many licenses. I don't need that many humans. I don't need that many administrators to manage, I call them the tuners. Once you get a driverless car, you don't need a thousand tuners to tune your Tesla, or Google Waymo car. So the same philosophy will happen is your Dev Apps, your administrators, your service management, people that you need for service now, and these products, Zendesk with AI, will tremendously will disrupt. >> So you're saying, okay, so yeah, I was going to ask you, won't the SAS vendors, won't they be able to just put, inject AI into their platforms, and I guess I'm inferring saying, yeah, but a lot of the problems that they're solving, are going to go away because of AI, is that right? And automation and RPA and things of that nature, is that right? >> Yes and no. So I'll tell you what, sorry, you have asked a very good question, let's answer, let me rephrase that question. What you're saying is, "Why can't the existing SAS vendors do the AI?" >> Yes, right. >> Right, >> And there's a reason they can't do it is their pricing model is by number of seats. So I'm not going to come to Dave, and say, come on, come pay me less money. It's the same reason why a board and general lover build an electric car. They're selling 10 million gasoline cars. There's no incentive for me, I'm not going to do any AI, I'm going to put, I'm not going to come to you and say, hey, buy me a hundred less license next year from it. So that is one reason why AI, even though these guys do any AI, it's going to be just so I call it, they're going to, what do you call it, a whitewash, kind of like you put some paint brush on it, trying to show you some AI you did from a marketing dynamics. But at the core, if you really implement the AI with you take the driver out, how are you going to change the pricing model? And being a public company, you got to take a hit on the pricing model and the price, and it's going to have a stocking part. So that, to your earlier question, will somebody disrupt them? The person who is going to disrupt them, will disrupt them on the pricing model. >> Right. So I want to ask you about that, because we saw a Snowflake, and it's IPO, we were able to pour through its S-1, and they have a different pricing model. It's a true Cloud consumption model, Whereas of course, most SAS companies, they're going to lock you in for at least one year term, maybe more, and then, you buy the license, you got to pay X. If you, don't use it, you still got to pay for it. Snowflake's different, actually they have a different problem, that people are using it too much and the sea is driving the CFO crazy because the bill is going up and up and up, but to me, that's the right model, It's just like the Amazon model, if you can justify it, so how do you see the pricing, that consumption model is actually, you're seeing some of the On-prem guys at HPE, Dell, they're doing as a service. They're kind of taking a page out of the last decade SAS model, so I think pricing is a real tricky one, isn't it? >> No, you nailed it, you nailed it. So I think the way in which the Snowflake there, how the disruptors are data warehouse, that disrupted the open source vendors too. Snowflake distributed, imagine the playbook, you disrupted something as the $ 0, right? It's an open source with Cloudera, Hortonworks, Mapper, that whole big data that you want me to, or that market is this, that disrupting data warehouses like Netezza, Teradata, and the charging more money, they're making more money and disrupting at $0, because the pricing models by consumption that you talked about. CMT is going to happen in the service now, Zen Desk, well, 'cause their pricing one is by number of seats. People are going to say, "How are my users are going to ask?" right? If you're an employee help desk, you're back to your original health collaborative. I may be on Slack, I could be on zoom, I'll maybe on MS Teams, I'm going to ask by using usage model on Slack, tools by employees to service now is the pricing model that people want to pay for. The more my employees use it, the more value I get. But I don't want to pay by number of seats, so the vendor, who's going to figure that out, and that's where I look, if you know me, I'm right over as I started, that's what I've tried to push that model look, I love that because that's the core of how you want to change the new game. >> I agree. I say, kill me with that problem, I mean, some people are trying to make it a criticism, but you hit on the point. If you pay more, it's only because you're getting more value out of it. So I wanted to flip the switch here a little bit and take a customer angle. Something that you've been on all sides. And I want to talk a little bit about strategies, you've been a strategist, I guess, once a strategist, always a strategist. How should organizations be thinking about their approach to Cloud, it's cost different for different industries, but, back when the cube started, financial services Cloud was a four-letter word. But of course the age of company is going to matter, but what's the framework for figuring out your Cloud strategy to get to your 70% and really take advantage of the economics? Should I be Mono Cloud, Multi-Cloud, Multi-vendor, what would you advise? >> Yeah, no, I mean, I mean, I actually call it the tech stack. Actually you and John taught me that what was the tech stack, like the lamp stack, I think there is a new Cloud stack needs to come, and that I think the bottomline there should be... First of all, anything with storage should be in the Cloud. I mean, if you want to start, whether you are, financial, doesn't matter, there's no way. I come from cybersecurity side, I've seen it. Your attackers will be more with insiders than being on the Cloud, so storage has to be in the Cloud then come compute, Kubernetes. If you really want to use containers and Kubernetes, it has to be in the public Cloud, leverage that have the computer on their databases. That's where it can be like if your data is so strong, maybe run it On-prem, maybe have it on a hosted model for when it comes to database, but there you have a choice between hybrid Cloud and public Cloud choice. Then on top when it comes to App, the app itself, you can run locally or anywhere, the App and database. Now the areas that you really want to go after to migrate is look at anything that's an enterprise workload that you don't need people to manage it. You want your own team to move up in the career. You don't want thousand people looking at... you don't want to have a, for example, IT administrators to call central people to the people to manage your compute storage. That workload should be more, right? You already saw Sierra moved out to Salesforce. We saw collaboration already moved out. Zoom is not running locally. You already saw SharePoint with knowledge management mode up, right? With a box, drawbacks, you name anything. The next global mode is a SAS workloads, right? I think Workday service running there, but work data will go into the Cloud. I bet at some point Zendesk, ServiceNow, then either they put it on the public Cloud, or they have to create a product and public Cloud. To your point, these public Cloud vendors are at $2 trillion market cap. They're they're bigger than the... I call them nation States. >> Yeah, >> So I'm servicing though. I mean, there's a 2 trillion market gap between Amazon and Azure, I'm not going to compete with them. So I want to take this workload to run it there. So all these vendors, if you see that's where Shandra from Adobe is pushing this right, Adobe, Workday, Anaplan, all the SAS vendors we'll move them into the public Cloud within these vendors. So those workloads need to move out, right? So that all those things will start, then you'll start migrating, but I call your procurement. That's where the RPA comes in. The other thing that we didn't talk about, back to your first question, what is the next 10 years of Cloud will be RPA? That third piece to Cloud is RPA because if you have your systems On-prem, I can't automate them. I have to do a VPN into your house there and then try to automate your systems, or your procurement, et cetera. So all these RPA vendors are still running On-prem, most of them, whether it's UI path automation anywhere. So the Cloud should be where the brain should be. That's what I call them like the octopus analogy, the brain is in the Cloud, the tentacles are everywhere, they should manage it. But if my tentacles have to do a VPN with your house to manage it, I'm always will have failures. So if you look at the why RPA did not have the growth, like the Snowflake, like the Cloud, because they are running it On-prem, most of them still. 80% of the RP revenue is On-prem, running On-prem, that needs to be called clarified. So AI, RPA and the SAS, are the three reasons Cloud will take off. >> Awesome. Thank you for that. Now I want to flip the switch again. You're an investor or a multi-tool player here, but so if you're, let's say you're an ecosystem player, and you're kind of looking at the landscape as you're in an investor, of course you've invested in the Cloud, because the Cloud is where it's at, but you got to be careful as an ecosystem player to pick a spot that both provides growth, but allows you to have a moat as, I mean, that's why I'm really curious to see how Snowflake's going to compete because they're competing with AWS, Microsoft, and Google, unlike, Frank, when he was at service now, he was competing with BMC and with on-prem and he crushed it, but the competitors are much more capable here, but it seems like they've got, maybe they've got a moat with MultiCloud, and that whole data sharing thing, we'll see. But, what about that? Where are the opportunities? Where's that white space? And I know there's a lot of white space, but what's the framework to look at, from an investor standpoint, or even a CEO standpoint, where you want to put place your bets. >> No, very good question, so look, I did something. We talk as an investor in the board with many companies, right? So one thing that says as an investor, if you come back and say, I want to create a next generation Docker or a computer, there's no way nobody's going to invest. So that we can motor off, even if you want to do object storage or a block storage, I mean, I've been an investor board member of so many storage companies, there's no way as an industry, I'll write a check for a compute or storage, right? If you want to create a next generation network, like either NetSuite, or restart Juniper, Cisco, there is no way. But if you come back and say, I want to create a next generation Viper for remote working environments, where AI is at the core, I'm interested in that, right? So if you look at how the packets are dropped, there's no intelligence in either not switching today. The packets come, I do it. The intelligence is not built into the network with AI level. So if somebody comes with an AI, what good is all this NVD, our GPS, et cetera, if you cannot do wire speed, packet inspection, looking at the content and then route the traffic. If I see if it's a video package, but in UN Boston, there's high interview day of they should be loading our package faster, because you are a premium ISP. That intelligence has not gone there. So you will see, and that will be a bad people will happen in the network, switching, et cetera, right? So that is still an angle. But if you work and it comes to platform services, remember when I was at Pivotal and VMware, all models was my boss, that would, yes, as a platform, service is a game already won by the Cloud guys. >> Right. (indistinct) >> Silicon Valley Investors, I don't think you want to invest in past services, right? I mean, you might come with some lecture edition database to do some updates, there could be some game, let's say we want to do a time series database, or some metrics database, there's always some small angle, but the opportunity to go create a national database there it's very few. So I'm kind of eliminating all the black spaces, right? >> Yeah. >> We have the white spaces that comes in is the SAS level. Now to your point, if I'm Amazon, I'm going to compete with Snowflake, I have Redshift. So this is where at some point, these Cloud platforms, I call them aircraft carriers. They're not going to stay on the aircraft carriers, they're going to own the land as well. So they're going to move up to the SAS space. The question is you want to create a SAS service like CRM. They are not going to create a CRM like service, they may not create a sales force and service now, but if you're going to add a data warehouse, I can very well see Azure, Google, and AWS, going to create something to compute a Snowflake. Why would I not? It's so close to my database and data warehouse, I already have Redshift. So that's going to be nightlights, same reason, If you look at Netflix, you have a Netflix and you have Amazon prime. Netflix runs on Amazon, but you have Amazon prime. So you have the same model, you have Snowflake, and you'll have Redshift. The both will help each other, there'll be a... What do you call it? Coexistence will happen. But if you really want to invest, you want to invest in SAS companies. You do not want to be investing in a compliment players. You don't want to a feature. >> Yeah, that's great, I appreciate that perspective. And I wonder, so obviously Microsoft play in SAS, Google's got G suite. And I wonder if people often ask the Andy Jassy, you're going to move up the stack, you got to be an application, a SAS vendor, and you never say never with Atavist, But I wonder, and we were talking to Jerry Chen about this, years ago on theCube, and his angle was that Amazon will play, but they'll play through developers. They'll enable developers, and they'll participate, they'll take their, lick off the cone. So it's going to be interesting to see how directly Amazon plays, but at some point you got Tam expansion, you got to play in that space. >> Yeah, I'll give you an example of knowing, I got acquired by a couple of times by EMC. So I learned a lot from Joe Tucci and Paul Merage over the years. see Paul and Joe, what they did is to look at how 20 years, and they are very close to Boston in your area, Joe, what games did is they used to sell storage, but you know what he did, he went and bought the Apps to drive them. He bought like Legato, he bought Documentum, he bought Captiva, if you remember how he acquired all these companies as a services, he bought VMware to drive that. So I think the good angle that Microsoft has is, I'm a SAS player, I have dynamics, I have CRM, I have SharePoint, I have Collaboration, I have Office 365, MS Teams for users, and then I have the platform as Azure. So I think if I'm Amazon, (indistinct). I got to own the apps so that I can drive this workforce on my platform. >> Interesting. >> Just going to developers, like I know Jerry Chan, he was my peer a BMF. I don't think just literally to developers and that model works in open source, but the open source game is pretty much gone, and not too many companies made money. >> Well, >> Most companies pretty much gone. >> Yeah, he's right. Red hats not bad idea. But it's very interesting what you're saying there. And so, hey, its why Oracle wants to have Tiktok, running on their platform, right? I mean, it's going to. (laughing) It's going to drive that further integration. I wanted to ask you something, you were talking about, you wouldn't invest in storage or compute, but I wonder, and you mentioned some commentary about GPU's. Of course the videos has been going crazy, but they're now saying, okay, how do we expand our Team, they make the acquisition of arm, et cetera. What about this DPU thing, if you follow that, that data processing unit where they're like hyper dis-aggregation and then they reaggregate, and as an offload and really to drive data centric workloads. Have you looked at that at all? >> I did, I think, and that's a good angle. So I think, look, it's like, it goes through it. I don't know if you remember in your career, we have seen it. I used to get Silicon graphics. I saw the first graphic GPU, right? That time GPU was more graphic processor unit, >> Right, yeah, work stations. >> So then become NPUs at work processing units, right? There was a TCP/IP office offloading, if you remember right, there was like vector processing unit. So I think every once in a while the industry, recreated this separate unit, as a co-processor to the main CPU, because main CPU's inefficient, and it makes sense. And then Google created TPU's and then we have the new world of the media GPU's, now we have DPS all these are good, but what's happening is, all these are driving for machine learning, AI for the training period there. Training period Sometimes it's so long with the workloads, if you can cut down, it makes sense. >> Yeah. >> Because, but the question is, these aren't so specialized in nature. I can't use it for everything. >> Yup. >> I want Ideally, algorithms to be paralyzed, I want the training to be paralyzed, I want so having deep use and GPS are important, I think where I want to see them as more, the algorithm, there should be more investment from the NVIDIA's and these guys, taking the algorithm to be highly paralyzed them. (indistinct) And I think that still has not happened in industry yet. >> All right, so we're pretty much out of time, but what are you doing these days? Where are you spending your time, are you still in Stealth, give us a little glimpse. >> Yeah, no, I'm out of the Stealth, I'm actually the CEO of Aisera now, Aisera, obviously I invested with them, but I'm the CEO of Aisero. It's funded by Menlo ventures, Norwest, True, along with Khosla ventures and Ram Shriram is a big investor. Robin's on the board of Google, so these guys, look, we are going out to the collaboration game. How do you automate customer service and support for employees and then users, right? In this whole game, we talked about the Zoom, Slack and MS Teams, that's what I'm spending time, I want to create next generation service now. >> Fantastic. Muddu, I always love having you on you, pull punches, you tell it like it is, that you're a great visionary technologist. Thanks so much for coming on theCube, and participating in our program. >> Dave, it's always a pleasure speaking to you sir. Thank you. >> Okay. Keep it right there, there's more coming from Cuba and Cloud right after this break. (slow music)

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome to cube three 60 fives coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Part of AWS reinvent. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. Today we are joined by a cube alum Karthik NurAin. He is Accenture senior managing director and lead Accenture cloud. First, welcome back to the show Karthik. >>Thank you. Thanks for having me here. >>Always a pleasure. So I want to talk to you. You are an industry veteran, you've been in Silicon Valley for decades. Um, I want to hear from your perspective what the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic has been, what are you hearing from clients? What are they struggling with? What are their challenges that they're facing day to day? >>I think, um, COVID-19 is being a eye-opener from, you know, various facets, you know, um, first and foremost, it's a, it's a head, um, situation that everybody's facing, which is not just, uh, highest economic bearings to it. It has enterprise, um, an organization with bedding to it. And most importantly, it's very personal to people, um, because they themselves and their friends, family near and dear ones are going to this challenge, uh, from various different dimension. But putting that aside, when you come to it from an organization enterprise standpoint, it has changed everything well, the behavior of organizations coming together, working in their campuses, working with each other as friends, family, and, uh, um, near and dear colleagues, all of them are operating differently. So that's what big change to get things done in a completely different way, from how they used to get things done. >>Number two, a lot of things that were planned for normal scenarios, like their global supply chain, how they interact with their client customers, how they coordinate with their partners on how that employees contribute to the success of an organization at all changed. And there are no data models that give them a hint of something like this for them to be prepared for this. So we are seeing organizations, um, that have adapted to this reasonably okay, and are, you know, launching to innovate faster in this. And there are organizations that have started with struggling, but are continuing to struggle. And the gap, uh, between the leaders and legs are widening. So this is creating opportunities in a different way for the leaders, um, with a lot of pivot their business, but it's also creating significant challenge for the lag guides, uh, as we defined in our future systems research that we did a year ago, uh, and those organizations are struggling further. So the gap is actually whitening. >>So you've just talked about the widening gap. I've talked about the tremendous uncertainty that so many companies, even the ones who have adapted reasonably well, uh, in this, in this time, talk a little bit about Accenture cloud first and why, why now? >>I think it's a great question. Um, we believe that for many of our clients COVID-19 has turned, uh, cloud from an experimentation aspiration to an origin mandate. What I mean by that is everybody has been doing something on the other end cloud. There's no company that says we don't believe in cloud. Uh, our, we don't want to do cloud. It was how much they did in cloud. And they were experimenting. They were doing the new things in cloud. Um, but they were operating a lot of their core business outside the cloud or not in the cloud. Those organizations have struggled to operate in this new normal, in a remote fashion as with us, uh, that ability to pivot to all the changes the pandemic has brought to them. But on the other hand, the organizations that had a solid foundation in cloud were able to collect faster and not actually gone into the stage of innovating faster and driving a new behavior in the market, new behavior within their organization. >>So we are seeing that spend to make is actually fast-forwarded something that we always believed was going to happen. This, uh, uh, moving to cloud over the next decade is fast, forwarded it to, uh, happen in the next three to five years. And it's created this moment where it's a once in an era, really replatforming of businesses in the cloud that we are going to see. And we see this moment as a cloud first moment where organizations will use cloud as the, the canvas and the foundation with which they're going to reimagine their business after they were born in the cloud. Uh, and this requires a whole new strategy. Uh, and as Accenture, we are getting a lot in cloud, but we thought that this is the moment where we bring all of that capabilities together because we need a strategy for addressing, moving to cloud are embracing cloud in a holistic fashion. And that's what Accenture cloud first brings together a holistic strategy, a team that's 70,000 plus people that's coming together with rich cloud skills, but investing to tie in all the various capabilities of cloud to Delaware, that holistic strategy to our clients. So I want you to >>Delve into a little bit more about what this strategy actually entails. I mean, it's clearly about embracing change and being willing to experiment and, and having capabilities to innovate. Can you tell us a little bit more about what this strategy entails? >>Yeah. The reason why we say that there's a need for the strategy is, like I said, COVID is not new. There's almost every customer client is doing something with the cloud, but all of them have taken different approaches to cloud and different boundaries to cloud. Some organizations say, I just need to consolidate my multiple data centers to a small data center footprint and move the nest to cloud. Certain other organizations say that well, I'm going to move certain workloads to cloud. Certain other organizations said, well, I'm going to build this Greenfield application or workload in cloud. Certain other said, um, I'm going to use the power of AI ML in the cloud to analyze my data and drive insights. But a cloud first strategy is all of this tied with the corporate strategy of the organization with an industry specific cloud journey to say, if in this current industry, if I were to be reborn in the cloud, would I do it in the exact same passion that I did in the past, which means that the products and services that they offer need to be the matching, how they interact with that customers and partners need to be revisited, how they bird and operate their IP systems need to be the, imagine how they unearthed the data from all the systems under which they attract need to be liberated so that you could drive insights of cloud. >>First strategy. Hans is a corporate wide strategy, and it's a C-suite responsibility. It doesn't take the ownership away from the CIO or CIO, but the CIO is, and CDI was felt that it was just their problem and they were to solve it. And everyone as being a customer, now, the center of gravity is elevated to it becoming a C-suite agenda on everybody's agenda, where probably the CDI is the instrument to execute that that's a holistic cloud-first strategy >>And it, and it's a strategy, but the way you're describing it, it sounds like it's also a mindset and an approach, as you were saying, this idea of being reborn in the cloud. So now how do I think about things? How do I communicate? How do I collaborate? How do I get done? What I need to get done. Talk a little bit about how this has changed, the way you support your clients and how Accenture cloud first is changing your approach to cloud services. >>Wonderful. Um, you know, I did not color one very important aspect in my previous question, but that's exactly what you just asked me now, which is to do all of this. I talked about all of the vehicles, uh, an organization or an enterprise is going to go to, but the good part is they have one constant. And what is that? That is their employees, uh, because you do, the employees are able to embrace this change. If they are able to, uh, change them, says, pivot them says retool and train themselves to be able to operate in this new cloud. First one, the ability to reimagine every function of the business would be happening at speed. And cloud first approach is to do all of this at speed, because innovation is deadly proposed there, do the rate of probability on experimentation. You need to experiment a lot for any kind of experimentation. >>There's a probability of success. Organizations need to have an ability and a mechanism for them to be able to innovate faster for which they need to experiment a lot. The more the experiment and the lower cost at which they experiment is going to help them experiment a lot and experiment demic speed, fail fast, succeed more. And hence, they're going to be able to operate this at speed. So the cloud-first mindset is all about speed. I'm helping the clients fast track that innovation journey, and this is going to happen. Like I said, across the enterprise and every function across every department, I'm the agent of this change is going to be the employee's weapon, race, this change through new skills and new grueling and new mindset that they need to adapt to. >>So Karthik what you're describing it, it sounds so exciting. And yet for a pandemic wary workforce, that's been working remotely that may be dealing with uncertainty if for their kid's school and for so many other aspects of their life, it sounds hard. So how are you helping your clients, employees get onboard with this? And because the change management is, is often the hardest part. >>Yeah, I think it's, again, a great question. A bottle has only so much capacity. Something got to come off for something else to go in. That's what you're saying is absolutely right. And that is again, the power of cloud. The reason why cloud is such a fundamental breakthrough technology and capability for us to succeed in this era, because it helps in various forms. What we talked so far is the power of innovation that could create, but cloud can also simplify the life of the employees in an enterprise. There are several activities and tasks that people do in managing their complex infrastructure, complex ID landscape. They used to do certain jobs and activities in a very difficult, uh, underground about with cloud has simplified. And democratised a lot of these activities. So that things which had to be done in the past, like managing the complexity of the infrastructure, keeping them up all the time, managing the, um, the obsolescence of the capabilities and technologies and infrastructure, all of that could be offloaded to the cloud. >>So that the time that is available for all of these employees can be used to further innovate. Every organization is good to spend almost the same amount of money, but rather than spending activities, by looking at the rear view mirror on keeping the lights on, they're going to spend more money, more time, more energy, and spend their skills on things that are going to add value to their organization. Because you, every innovation that an enterprise can give to their end customer need not come from that enterprise. The word of platform economy is about democratising innovation. And the power of cloud is to get all of these capabilities from outside the four walls of the enterprise, >>It will add value to the organization, but I would imagine also add value to that employee's life because that employee, the employee will be more engaged in his or her job and therefore bring more excitement and energy into her, his or her day-to-day activities too. >>Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is, this is a normal evolution we would have seen everybody would have seen in their lives, that they keep moving up the value chain of what activities that, uh, gets performed buying by those individuals. And there's this, um, you know, no more true than how the United States, uh, as an economy has operated where, um, this is the power of a powerhouse of innovation, where the work that's done inside the country keeps moving up to that. You change. And, um, us leverages the global economy for a lot of things that is required to power the United States and that global economic, uh, phenomenon is very proof for an enterprise as well. There are things that an enterprise needs to do them soon. There are things an employee needs to do themselves. Um, but there are things that they could leverage from the external innovation and the power of innovation that is coming from technologies like cloud. >>So at Accenture, you have long, long, deep Stan, sorry, you have deep and long standing relationships with many cloud service providers, including AWS. How does the Accenture cloud first strategy, how does it affect your relationships with those providers? >>Yeah, we have great relationships with cloud providers like AWS. And in fact, in the cloud world, it was one of the first, um, capability that we started about years ago, uh, when we started developing these capabilities. But five years ago, we hit a very important milestone where the two organizations came together and said that we are forging a pharma partnership with joint investments to build this partnership. And we named that as a Accenture, AWS business group ABG, uh, where we co-invest and brought skills together and develop solutions. And we will continue to do that. And through that investment, we've also made several acquisitions that you would have seen in the recent times, like, uh, an invoice and gecko that we made acquisitions in in Europe. But now we're taking this to the next level. What we are saying is two cloud first and the $3 billion investment that we are bringing in, uh, through cloud first, we are going to make specific investment to create unique joint solution and landing zones foundation, um, cloud packs with which clients can accelerate their innovation or their journey to cloud first. >>And one great example is what we are doing with Takeda, uh, billable, pharmaceutical giant, um, between we've signed a five-year partnership. And it was out in the media just a month ago or so, where we are, the two organizations are coming together. We have created a partnership as a power of three partnership where the three organizations are jointly hoarding hats and taking responsibility for the innovation and the leadership position that Decatur wants to get to with this. We are going to simplify their operating model and organization by providing it flexibility. We're going to provide a lot more insights. Tequila has a 230 year old organization. Imagine the amount of trapped data and intelligence that is there. How about bringing all of that together with the power of AWS and Accenture and Takeda to drive more customer insights, um, come up with breakthrough, uh, R and D uh, accelerate clinical trials and improve the patient experience using AI ML and edge technologies. So all of these things that we will do through this partnership with joint investment from Accenture cloud first, as well as partner like AWS, so that Takeda can realize their gain. And, uh, they're seeing you actually made a statement that five years from now, every ticket an employee will have an AI assistant. That's going to make that beginner employee move up the value chain on how they contribute and add value to the future of tequila with the AI assistant, making them even more equipped and smarter than what they could be otherwise. >>So, one last question to close this out here. What is your future vision for, for Accenture cloud first? What are we going to be talking about at next year's Accenture executive summit? Yeah, the future >>Is going to be, um, evolving, but the part that is exciting to me, and this is, uh, uh, a fundamental belief that we are entering a new era of industrial revolution from industry first, second, and third industry. The third happened probably 20 years ago with the advent of Silicon and computers and all of that stuff that happened here in the Silicon Valley. I think the fourth industrial revolution is going to be in the cross section of, uh, physical, digital and biological boundaries. And there's a great article, um, in what economic forum that, that people, uh, your audience can Google and read about it. Uh, but the reason why this is very, very important is we are seeing a disturbing phenomenon that over the last 10 years, they are seeing a Blackwing of the, um, labor productivity and innovation, which has dropped to about 2.1%. When you see that kind of phenomenon over that longer period of time, there has to be breakthrough innovation that needs to happen to come out of this barrier and get to the next base camp, as I would call it to further this productivity, um, lack that we are seeing, and that is going to happen in the intersection of the physical, digital and biological boundaries. >>And I think cloud is going to be the connective tissue between all of these three, to be able to provide that where it's the edge, especially is going to come closer to the human lives. It's going to come from cloud pick totally in your mind, you can think about cloud as central, either in a private cloud, in a data center or in a public cloud, you know, everywhere. But when you think about edge, it's going to be far reaching and coming close to where we live and maybe work and very, um, get entertained and so on and so forth. And there's going to be, uh, intervention in a positive way in the field of medicine, in the field of entertainment, in the field of, um, manufacturing in the field of, um, uh, you know, mobility. When I say mobility, human mobility, people, transportation, and so on and so forth with all of this stuff, cloud is going to be the connective tissue and the vision of cloud first is going to be, uh, you know, blowing through this big change that is going to happen. And the evolution that is going to happen where, you know, the human grace of mankind, um, our person kind of being very gender neutral in today's world. Um, go first needs to be that beacon of, uh, creating the next generation vision for enterprises to take advantage of that kind of an exciting future. And that's why it, Accenture. We say, let there be change as our, as a purpose. >>I genuinely believe that cloud first is going to be in the forefront of that change agenda, both for Accenture as well as for the rest of the world. Excellent. Let there be change, indeed. Thank you so much for joining us Karthik. A pleasure I'm Rebecca night's stay tuned for more of Q3 60 fives coverage of the Accenture executive summit >>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS >>Welcome everyone to the Q virtual and our coverage of the Accenture executive summit, which is part of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. Today, we are talking about the green, the cloud and joining me is Kishor Dirk. He is Accenture senior managing director cloud first global services lead. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Kishor nice to meet you. So I want to start by asking you what it is that we mean when we say green cloud, we know that sustainability is a business imperative. So many organizations around the world are committing to responsible innovation, lowering carbon emissions, but what's this, what is it? What does it mean when they talk about cloud from a sustainability perspective? I think it's about responsible innovation being cloud is a cloud first approach that has profits and benefit the clients by helping reduce carbon emissions. >>Think about it this way. You have a large number of data centers. Each of these data centers are increasing by 14% every year. And this double digit growth. What you're seeing is these data centers and the consumption is nearly coolant to the kind of them should have a country like Spain. So the magnitude of the problem that is out there and how do we pursue a green approach. If you look at this, our Accenture analysis, in terms of the migration to public cloud, we've seen that we can reduce that by 59 million tons of CO2 per year with just the 5.9% reduction in total ID emissions and equates this to 22 million cars off the road. And the magnitude of reduction can go a long way in meeting climate change commitments, particularly for data sensitive. >>Wow, that's incredible. What the numbers that you're putting forward are, are absolutely mind blowing. So how does it work? Is it a simple cloud migration? So, you know, when companies begin their cloud journey and then they confront, uh, with them a lot of questions, the decision to make, uh, this particular, uh, element sustainable in the solution and benefits they drive and they have to make wise choices, and then they will be unprecedented level of innovation leading to both a greener planet, as well as, uh, a greener balance sheet, I would say, uh, so effectively it's all about ambition data, the ambition, greater the reduction in carbon emissions. So from a cloud migration perspective, we look at it as a, as a simple solution with approaches and sustainability benefits, uh, that vary based on things it's about selecting the right cloud provider, a very carbon thoughtful provider and the first step towards a sustainable cloud journey. >>And here we're looking at cloud operators, obviously they have different corporate commitments towards sustainability, and that determines how they plan, how they build, uh, their, uh, uh, the data centers, how they are consumed and assumptions that operate there and how they, or they retire their data centers. Then, uh, the next element that you want to do is how do you build it ambition, you know, for some of the companies, uh, and average on-prem, uh, drives about 65% energy reduction and the carbon emissions and reduction number was 84%, which is kind of good, I would say. But then if you could go up to 98% by configuring applications to the cloud, that is significant benefit for, uh, for the board. And obviously it's a, a greener cloud that we're talking about. And then the question is, how far can you go? And, uh, you know, the, obviously the companies have to unlock greater financial societal environmental benefits, and Accenture has this cloud based circular operations and sustainable products and services that we bring into play. So it's a, it's a very thoughtful, broader approach that w bringing in, in terms of, uh, just a simple concept of cloud migration, >>We know that in the COVID era, shifting to the cloud has really become a business imperative. How is Accenture working with its clients at a time when all of this movement has been accelerated? How do you partner and what is your approach in terms of helping them with their migration? >>Yeah, I mean, let, let me talk a little bit about the pandemic and the crisis that is there today. And if you really look at that in terms of how we partnered with a lot of our clients in terms of the cloud first approach, I'll give you a couple of examples. We worked with rolls Royce, McLaren, DHL, and others, as part of the ventilator challenge consortium, again, to, uh, coordinate production of medical ventilator surgically needed for the UK health service. Many of these farms I've taken similar initiatives in, in terms of, uh, you know, from a few manufacturers hand sanitizers and to hand sanitizers, and again, leading passionate labels, making PPE, and again, at the UN general assembly, we launched the end-to-end integration guide that helps company essentially to have a sustainable development goals. And that's how we have parking at a very large scale. >>Uh, and, and if you really look at how we work with our clients and what is Accenture's role there, uh, you know, from, in terms of our clients, you know, there are multiple steps that we look at. One is about, uh, planning, building, deploying, and managing an optimal green cloud solution. And Accenture has this concept of, uh, helping clients with a platform to kind of achieve that goal. And here we are having, we are having a platform or a mine app, which has a module called BGR advisor. And this is a capability that helps you provide optimal green cloud, uh, you know, a business case, and obviously a blueprint for each of our clients and right from the start in terms of how do we complete cloud migration recommendation to an improved solution, accurate accuracy to obviously bringing in the end to end perspective, uh, you know, with this green card advisor capability, we're helping our clients capture what we call as a carbon footprint for existing data centers and provide, uh, I would say the current cloud CO2 emission score that, you know, obviously helps them, uh, with carbon credits that can further that green agenda. >>So essentially this is about recommending a green index score, reducing carbon footprint for migration migrating for green cloud. And if we look at how Accenture itself is practicing what we preach, 95% of our applications are in the cloud. And this migration has helped us, uh, to lead to about $14.5 million in benefit. And in the third year and another 3 million analytics costs that are saved through right-sizing a service consumption. So it's a very broad umbrella and a footprint in terms of how we engage societaly with the UN or our clients. And what is it that we exactly bring to our clients in solving a specific problem? >>Accenture isn't is walking the walk, as you say yes. >>So that's that instead of it, we practice what we preach, and that is something that we take it to heart. We want to have a responsible business and we want to practice it. And we want to advise our clients around that >>You are your own use case. And so they can, they know they can take your advice. So talk a little bit about, um, the global, the cooperation that's needed. We know that conquering this pandemic is going to take a coordinated global effort and talk a little bit about the great reset initiative. First of all, what is that? Why don't we, why don't we start there and then we can delve into it a little bit more. >>Okay. So before we get to how we are cooperating, the great reset, uh, initiative is about improving the state of the world. And it's about a group of global stakeholders cooperating to simultaneously manage the direct consequences of their COVID-19 crisis. Uh, and in spirit of this cooperation that we're seeing during COVID-19, uh, which will obviously either to post pandemic, to tackle the world's pressing issues. As I say, uh, we are increasing companies to realize a combined potential of technology and sustainable impact to use enterprise solutions, to address with urgency and scale, and, um, obviously, uh, multiple challenges that are facing our world. One of the ways that you're increasing, uh, companies to reach their readiness cloud with Accenture's cloud core strategy is to build a solid foundation that is resilient and will be able to faster to the current, as well as future times. Now, when you think of cloud as the foundation, uh, that drives the digital transformation, it's about scale speed, streamlining your operations, and obviously reducing costs. >>And as these businesses seize the construct of cloud first, they must remain obviously responsible and trusted. Now think about this, right, as part of our analysis, uh, that profitability can co-exist with responsible and sustainable practices. Let's say that all the data centers, uh, migrated from on-prem to cloud based, we estimate that would reduce carbon emissions globally by 60 million tons per year. Uh, and think about it this way, right? Easier metric would be taking out 22 million cars off the road. Um, the other examples that you've seen, right, in terms of the NHS work that they're doing, uh, in, in UK to build, uh, uh, you know, uh, Microsoft teams in based integration. And, uh, the platform rolled out for 1.2 million in interest users, uh, and got 16,000 users that we were able to secure, uh, instant messages, obviously complete audio video calls and host virtual meetings across India. So, uh, this, this work that we did with NHS is something that we have are collaborating with a lot of tools and powering businesses. >>Well, you're vividly describing the business case for sustainability. What do you see as the future of cloud when thinking about it from this lens of sustainability, and also going back to what you were talking about in terms of how you are helping your, your fostering cooperation within these organizations. >>Yeah, that's a very good question. So if you look at today, right, businesses are obviously environmentally aware and they are expanding efforts to decrease power consumption, carbon emissions, and they want to run a sustainable operational efficiency across all elements of their business. And this is an increasing trend, and there is that option of energy efficient infrastructure in the global market. And this trend is the cloud first thinking. And with the right cloud migration that we've been discussing is about unlocking new opportunity, like clean energy foundations enable enabled by cloud based geographic analysis, material, waste reductions, and better data insights. And this is something that, uh, uh, we'll we'll drive, uh, with obviously faster analytics platform that is out there. Now, the sustainability is actually the future of business, which is companies that are historically different, the financial security or agility benefits to cloud. Now sustainability becomes an imperative for them. And I would on expedience Accenture's experience with cloud migrations, we have seen 30 to 40% total cost of ownership savings. And it's driving a greater workload, flexibility, better service, your obligation, and obviously more energy efficient, uh, public clouds that cost we'll see that, that drive a lot of these enterprise own data centers. So in our view, what we are seeing is that this, this, uh, sustainable cloud position helps, uh, helps companies to, uh, drive a lot of the goals in addition to their financial and other goods. >>So what should organizations who are, who are watching this interview and saying, Hey, I need to know more, what, what do you recommend to them? And what, where should they go to get more information on Greenplum? >>No, if you you're, if you are a business leader and you're thinking about which cloud provider is good, or how, how should applications be modernized to meet our day-to-day needs, which cloud driven innovations should be priorities. Uh, you know, that's why Accenture, uh, formed up the cloud first organization and essentially to provide the full stack of cloud services to help our clients become a cloud first business. Um, you know, it's all about excavation, uh, the digital transformation innovating faster, creating differentiated, uh, and sustainable value for our clients. And we're powering it up at 70,000 cloud professionals, $3 billion investment, and, uh, bringing together and services for our clients in terms of cloud solutions. And obviously the ecosystem partnership that we have that we are seeing today, uh, and the assets that help our clients realize their goals. Um, and again, to do reach out to us, uh, we can help them determine obviously, an optimal, sustainable cloud for solution that meets the business needs and being unprecedented levels of innovation. Our experience will be our advantage. And now more than ever, Rebecca, >>Just closing us out here. Do you have any advice for these companies who are navigating a great deal of uncertainty? We, what, what do you think the next 12 to 24 months? What do you think that should be on the minds of CEOs as they go through? >>So, as CEO's are thinking about rapidly leveraging cloud, migrating to cloud, uh, one of the elements that we want them to be thoughtful about is can they do that, uh, with unprecedent level of innovation, but also build a greener planet and a greener balance sheet, if we can achieve this balance and kind of, uh, have a, have a world which is greener, I think the world will win. And we all along with Accenture clients will win. That's what I would say, uh, >>Optimistic outlook. And I will take it. Thank you so much. Kishor for coming on the show >>That was >>Accenture's Kishor Dirk, I'm Rebecca Knight stay tuned for more of the cube virtuals coverage of the Accenture executive summit >>Around the globe. >>It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome everyone to the cube virtual and our coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Part of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. Today, we are talking about the power of three. And what happens when you bring together the scientific know-how of a global bias biopharmaceutical powerhouse in Takeda, a leading cloud services provider in AWS, and Accenture's ability to innovate, execute, and deliver innovation. Joining me to talk about these things. We have Aaron, sorry, Arjun, baby. He is the senior managing director and chairman of Accenture's diamond leadership council. Welcome Arjun Karl hick. He is the chief digital and information officer at Takeda. >>What is your bigger, thank you, Rebecca >>And Brian bowhead, global director, and head of the Accenture AWS business group at Amazon web services. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you. So, as I said, we're talking today about this relationship between, uh, your three organizations. Carl, I want to talk with you. I know you're at the beginning of your cloud journey. What was the compelling reason? What, what, why, why move to the cloud and why now? >>Yeah, no, thank you for the question. So, you know, as a biopharmaceutical leader, we're committed to bringing better health and a brighter future to our patients. We're doing that by translating science into some really innovative and life transporting therapies, but throughout, you know, we believe that there's a responsible use of technology, of data and of innovation. And those three ingredients are really key to helping us deliver on that promise. And so, you know, while I think, uh, I'll call it, this cloud journey is already always been a part of our strategy. Um, and we've made some pretty steady progress over the last years with a number of I'll call it diverse approaches to the digital and AI. We just weren't seeing the impact at scale that we wanted to see. Um, and I think that, you know, there's a, there's a need ultimately to, you know, accelerate and, uh, broaden that shift. >>And, you know, we were commenting on this earlier, but there's, you know, it's been highlighted by a number of factors. One of those has been certainly a number of the large acquisitions we've made Shire, uh, being the most pressing example, uh, but also the global pandemic, both of those highlight the need for us to move faster, um, at the speed of cloud, ultimately. Uh, and so we started thinking outside of the box because it was taking us too long and we decided to leverage this strategic partner model. Uh, and it's giving us a chance to think about our challenges very differently. We call this the power of three, uh, and ultimately our focus is singularly on our patients. I mean, they're waiting for us. We need to get there faster. It can take years. And so I think that there is a focus on innovation, um, at a rapid speed, so we can move ultimately from treating conditions to keeping people healthy. >>So as you are embarking on this journey, what are some of the insights you want to share about, about what you're seeing so far? >>Yeah, no, it's a great question. So, I mean, look, maybe right before I highlight some of the key insights, uh, I would say that, you know, with cloud now as the, as the launchpad for innovation, you know, our vision all along has been that in less than 10 years, we want every single to kid, uh, associate we're employed to be empowered by an AI assistant. And I think that, you know, that's going to help us make faster, better decisions. That'll help us, uh, fundamentally deliver transformative therapies and better experiences to, to that ecosystem, to our patients, to physicians, to payers, et cetera, much faster than we previously thought possible. Um, and I think that technologies like cloud and edge computing together with a very powerful I'll call it data fabric is going to help us to create this, this real-time, uh, I'll call it the digital ecosystem. >>The data has to flow ultimately seamlessly between our patients and providers or partners or researchers, et cetera. Uh, and so we've been thinking about this, uh, I'll call it legal, hold up, sort of this pyramid, um, that helps us describe our vision. Uh, and a lot of it has to do with ultimately modernizing the foundation, modernizing and rearchitecting, the platforms that drive the company, uh, heightening our focus on data, which means that there's an accelerated shift towards enterprise data platforms and digital products. And then ultimately, uh, uh, P you know, really an engine for innovation sitting at the very top. Um, and so I think with that, you know, there's a few different, uh, I'll call it insights that, you know, are quickly kind of come zooming into focus. I would say one is this need to collaborate very differently. Um, you know, not only internally, but you know, how do we define ultimately, and build a connected digital ecosystem with the right partners and technologies externally? >>I think the second, uh, component that maybe people don't think as much about, but, you know, I find critically important is for us to find ways of really transforming our culture. We have to unlock talent and shift the culture certainly as a large biopharmaceutical very differently. And then lastly, you've touched on it already, which is, you know, innovation at the speed of cloud. How do we re-imagine that, you know, how do ideas go from getting tested and months to kind of getting tested in days? You know, how do we collaborate very differently? Uh, and so I think those are three, uh, perhaps of the larger I'll call it, uh, insights that, you know, the three of us are spending a lot of time thinking about right now. >>So Arjun, I want to bring you into this conversation a little bit. Let's, let's delve into those a bit. Talk first about the collaboration, uh, that Carl was referencing there. How, how have you seen that it is enabling, uh, colleagues and teams to communicate differently and interact in new and different ways? Uh, both internally and externally, as Carl said, >>No, th thank you for that. And, um, I've got to give call a lot of credit, because as we started to think about this journey, it was clear, it was a bold ambition. It was, uh, something that, you know, we had all to do differently. And so the, the concept of the power of three that Carl has constructed has become a label for us as a way to think about what are we going to do to collectively drive this journey forward. And to me, the unique ways of collaboration means three things. The first one is that, um, what is expected is that the three parties are going to come together and it's more than just the sum of our resources. And by that, I mean that we have to bring all of ourselves, all of our collective capabilities, as an example, Amazon has amazing supply chain capabilities. >>They're one of the best at supply chain. So in addition to resources, when we have supply chain innovations, uh, that's something that they're bringing in addition to just, uh, talent and assets, similarly for Accenture, right? We do a lot, uh, in the talent space. So how do we bring our thinking as to how we apply best practices for talent to this partnership? So, um, as we think about this, so that's, that's the first one, the second one is about shared success very early on in this partnership, we started to build some foundations and actually develop seven principles that all of us would look at as the basis for this success shared success model. And we continue to hold that sort of in the forefront, as we think about this collaboration. And maybe the third thing I would say is this one team mindset. So whether it's the three of our CEOs that get together every couple of months to think about, uh, this partnership, or it is the governance model that Carl has put together, which has all three parties in the governance and every level of leadership, we always think about this as a collective group, so that we can keep that front and center. >>And what I think ultimately has enabled us to do is it allowed us to move at speed, be more flexible. And ultimately all we're looking at the target the same way, the North side, the same way. >>Brian, what about you? What have you observed and what are you thinking about in terms of how this is helping teams collaborate differently? >>Yeah, absolutely. And RJ made some, some great points there. And I think if you really think about what he's talking about, it's that, that diversity of talent, diversity of skill and viewpoint and even culture, right? And so we see that in the power of three. And then I think if we drill down into what we see at Takeda, and frankly, Takeda was, was really, I think, pretty visionary and on their way here, right. And taking this kind of cross-functional approach and applying it to how they operate day to day. So moving from a more functional view of the world to more of a product oriented view of the world, right? So when you think about we're going to be organized around a product or a service or a capability that we're going to provide to our customers or our patients or donors in this case, it implies a different structure, although altogether, and a different way of thinking, right? >>Because now you've got technical people and business experts and marketing experts, all working together in this is sort of cross collaboration. And what's great about that is it's really the only way to succeed with cloud, right? Because the old ways of thinking where you've got application people and infrastructure, people in business, people is suboptimal, right? Because we can all access this tool was, and these capabilities and the best way to do that, isn't across kind of a cross collaborative way. And so this is product oriented mindset. It's a keto was already on. I think it's allowed us to move faster in those areas. >>Carl, I want to go back to this idea of unlocking talent and culture. And this is something that both Brian and Arjun have talked about too. People are, are an essential part of their, at the heart of your organization. How will their experience of work change and how are you helping re-imagine and reinforce a strong organizational culture, particularly at this time when so many people are working remotely. >>Yeah. It's a great question. And it's something that, you know, I think we all have to think a lot about, I mean, I think, um, you know, driving this, this call it, this, this digital and data kind of capability building, uh, takes a lot of, a lot of thinking. So, I mean, there's a few different elements in terms of how we're tackling this one is we're recognizing, and it's not just for the technology organization or for those actors that, that we're innovating with, but it's really across all of the Cato where we're working through ways of raising what I'll call the overall digital leaders literacy of the organization, you know, what are the, you know, what are the skills that are needed almost at a baseline level, even for a global bio-pharmaceutical company and how do we deploy, I'll call it those learning resources very broadly. >>And then secondly, I think that, you know, we're, we're very clear that there's a number of areas where there are very specialized skills that are needed. Uh, my organization is one of those. And so, you know, we're fostering ways in which, you know, we're very kind of quickly kind of creating, uh, avenues excitement for, for associates in that space. So one example specifically, as we use, you know, during these very much sort of remote, uh, sort of days, we, we use what we call global it days, and we set a day aside every single month and this last Friday, um, you know, we, we create during that time, it's time for personal development. Um, and we provide active seminars and training on things like, you know, robotic process automation, data analytics cloud, uh, in this last month we've been doing this for months and months now, but in his last month, more than 50% of my organization participated, and there's this huge positive shift, both in terms of access and excitement about really harnessing those new skills and being able to apply them. >>Uh, and so I think that that's, you know, one, one element that, uh, can be considered. And then thirdly, um, of course, every organization to work on, how do you prioritize talent, acquisition and management and competencies that you can't rescale? I mean, there are just some new capabilities that we don't have. And so there's a large focus that I have with our executive team and our CEO and thinking through those critical roles that we need to activate in order to kind of, to, to build on this, uh, this business led cloud transformation. And lastly, probably the hardest one, but the one that I'm most jazzed about is really this focus on changing the mindsets and behaviors. Um, and I think there, you know, this is where the power of three is, is really, uh, kind of coming together nicely. I mean, we're working on things like, you know, how do we create this patient obsessed curiosity, um, and really kind of unlock innovation with a real, kind of a growth mindset. >>Uh, and the level of curiosity that's needed, not to just continue to do the same things, but to really challenge the status quo. So that's one big area of focus we're having the agility to act just faster. I mean, to worry less, I guess I would say about kind of the standard chain of command, but how do you make more speedy, more courageous decisions? And this is places where we can emulate the way that a partner like AWS works, or how do we collaborate across the number of boundaries, you know, and I think, uh, Arjun spoke eloquently to a number of partnerships that we can build. So we can break down some of these barriers and use these networks, um, whether it's within our own internal ecosystem or externally to help, to create value faster. So a lot of energy around ways of working and we'll have to check back in, but I mean, we're early in on this mindset and behavioral shift, um, but a lot of good early momentum. >>Carl you've given me a good segue to talk to Brian about innovation, because you said a lot of the things that I was the customer obsession and this idea of innovating much more quickly. Obviously now the world has its eyes on drug development, and we've all learned a lot about it, uh, in the past few months and accelerating drug development is all, uh, is of great interest to all of us. Brian, how does a transformation like this help a company's, uh, ability to become more agile and more innovative and at a quicker speed to, >>Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think some of the things that Carl talked about just now are critical to that, right? I think where sometimes folks fall short is they think, you know, we're going to roll out the technology and the technology is going to be the silver bullet where we're, in fact it is the culture. It is, is the talent. And it's the focus on that. That's going to be, you know, the determinant of success. And I will say, you know, in this power of three arrangement and Carl talked a little bit about the pyramid, um, talent and culture and that change, and the kind of thinking about that has been a first-class citizen since the very beginning, right. That absolutely is critical for, for being there. Um, and, and so that's been, that's been key. And so we think about innovation at Amazon and AWS, and Carl mentioned some of the things that, you know, partner like AWS can bring to the table is we talk a lot about builders, right? >>So kind of obsessive about builders. Um, and, and we meet what we mean by that is we at Amazon, we hire for builders, we cultivate builders and we like to talk to our customers about it as well. And it also implies a different mindset, right? When you're a builder, you have that, that curiosity, you have that ownership, you have that stake in whatever I'm creating, I'm going to be a co-owner of this product or this service, right. Getting back to that kind of product oriented mindset. And it's not just the technical people or the it people who are builders. It is also the business people as, as Carl talked about. Right. So when we start thinking about, um, innovation again, where we see folks kind of get into a little bit of a innovation pilot paralysis, is that you can focus on the technology, but if you're not focusing on the talent and the culture and the processes and the mechanisms, you're going to be putting out technology, but you're not going to have an organization that's ready to take it and scale it and accelerate it. >>Right. And so that's, that's been absolutely critical. So just a couple of things we've been doing with, with Takeda and Decatur has really been leading the way is, think about a mechanism and a process. And it's really been working backward from the customer, right? In this case, again, the patient and the donor. And that was an easy one because the key value of Decatur is to be a patient focused bio-pharmaceutical right. So that was embedded in their DNA. So that working back from that, that patient, that donor was a key part of that process. And that's really deep in our DNA as well. And Accenture's, and so we were able to bring that together. The other one is, is, is getting used to experimenting and even perhaps failing, right. And being able to iterate and fail fast and experiment and understanding that, you know, some decisions, what we call it at Amazon or two-way doors, meaning you can go through that door, not like what you see and turn around and go back. And cloud really helps there because the costs of experimenting and the cost of failure is so much lower than it's ever been. You can do it much faster and the implications are so much less. So just a couple of things that we've been really driving, uh, with the cadence around innovation, that's been really critical. Carl, where are you already seeing signs of success? >>Yeah, no, it's a great question. And so we chose, you know, uh, with our focus on innovation to try to unleash maybe the power of data digital in, uh, in focusing on what I call sort of a Maven. And so we chose our, our, our plasma derived therapy business, um, and you know, the plasma-derived therapy business unit, it develops critical life-saving therapies for patients with rare and complex diseases. Um, but what we're doing is by bringing kind of our energy together, we're focusing on creating, I'll call it state of the art digitally connected donation centers. And we're really modernizing, you know, the, the, the donor experience right now, we're trying to, uh, improve also I'll call it the overall plasma collection process. And so we've, uh, selected a number of alcohol at a very high speed pilots that we're working through right now, specifically in this, in this area. And we're seeing >>Really great results already. Um, and so that's, that's one specific area of focus are Jen, I want you to close this out here. Any ideas, any best practices advice you would have for other pharmaceutical companies that are, that are at the early stage of their cloud journey? Yes. Sorry. Arjun. >>Yeah, no, I was breaking up a bit. No, I think they, um, the key is what what's sort of been great for me to see is that when people think about cloud, you know, you always think about infrastructure technology. The reality is that the cloud is really the true enabler for innovation and innovating at scale. And, and if you think about that, right, in all the components that you need, uh, ultimately that's where the value is for the company, right? Because yes, you're going to get some cost synergies and that's great, but the true value is in how do we transform the organization in the case of the Qaeda and the life sciences clients, right. We're trying to take a 14 year process of research and development that takes billions of dollars and compress that right. Tremendous amounts of innovation opportunity. You think about the commercial aspect, lots of innovation can come there. The plasma derived therapy is a great example of how we're going to really innovate to change the trajectory of that business. So I think innovation is at the heart of what most organizations need to do. And the formula, the cocktail that Takeda has constructed with this Fuji program really has all the ingredients, um, that are required for that success. >>Great. Well, thank you so much. Arjun, Brian and Carl was really an enlightening conversation. >>Thank you. Yeah, it's been fun. Thanks Rebecca. >>And thank you for tuning into the cube. Virtual is coverage of the Accenture executive summit >>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome everyone to the cubes coverage of Accenture executive summit here at AWS reinvent. I'm your host Rebecca Knight for this segment? We have two guests. First. We have Helen Davis. She is the senior director of cloud platform services, assistant director for it and digital for the West Midlands police. Thanks so much for coming on the show, Helen, and we also have Matthew lb. He is Accenture health and public service associate director and West Midlands police account lead. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Matthew, thank you for joining us. So we are going to be talking about delivering data-driven insights to the West Midlands police force. Helen, I want to start with >>You. Can you tell us a little bit about the West Midlands police force? How big is the force and also what were some of the challenges that you were grappling with prior to this initiative? >>Yeah, certainly. So Westerners police is the second largest police force in the UK, outside of the metropolitan police in London. Um, we have an excessive, um, 11,000 people work at Westman ins police serving communities, um, through, across the Midlands region. So geographically, we're quite a big area as well, as well as, um, being population, um, density, having that as a, at a high level. Um, so the reason we sort of embarked on the data-driven insights platform and it, which was a huge change for us was for a number of reasons. Um, namely we had a lot of disparate data, um, which was spread across a range of legacy systems that were many, many years old, um, with some duplication of what was being captured and no single view for offices or, um, support staff. Um, some of the access was limited. You have to be in a, in an actual police building on a desktop computer to access it. Um, other information could only reach the offices on the front line, through a telephone call back to one of our enabling services where they would do a manual checkup, um, look at the information, then call the offices back, um, and tell them what they needed to know. So it was a very long laborious, um, process and not very efficient. Um, and we certainly weren't exploiting the data that we had in a very productive way. >>So it sounds like as you're describing, and I'm old clunky system that needed a technological, uh, reimagination. So what was the main motivation for, for doing, for making this shift? >>It was really, um, about making us more efficient and more effective in how we do how we do business. So, um, you know, certainly as a, as an it leader and some of my operational colleagues, we recognize the benefits, um, that data analytics could bring in, uh, in a policing environment, not something that was, um, really done in the UK at the time. You know, we have a lot of data, so we're very data rich and the information that we have, but we needed to turn it into information that was actionable. So that's where we started looking for, um, technology partners and suppliers to help us and sort of help us really with what's the art of the possible, you know, this hasn't been done before. So what could we do in this space? That's appropriate, >>Helen. I love that idea. What is the art of the possible, can you tell us a little bit about why you chose AWS? >>I think really, you know, as with all things and when we're procuring a partner in the public sector that, you know, there are many rules and regulations quite rightly as you would expect that to be because we're spending public money. So we have to be very, very careful and, um, it's, it's a long process and we have to be open to public scrutiny. So, um, we sort of look to everything, everything that was available as part of that process, but we recognize the benefits that Clyde would provide in this space because, you know, we're like moving to a cloud environment. We would literally be replacing something that was legacy with something that was a bit more modern. Um, that's not what we wanted to do. Our ambition was far greater than that. So I think, um, in terms of AWS, really, it was around scalability, interoperability, you know, just us things like the disaster recovery service, the fact that we can scale up and down quickly, we call it dialing up and dialing back. Um, you know, it's it's page go. So it just sort of ticked all the boxes for us. And then we went through the full procurement process, fortunately, um, it came out on top for us. So we were, we were able to move forward, but it just sort of had everything that we were looking for in that space. >>Matthew, I want to bring you into the conversation a little bit here. How are you working with a wet with the West Midlands police, sorry. And helping them implement this cloud-first >>Yeah, so I guess, um, by January the West Midlands police started, um, favorite five years ago now. So, um, we set up a partnership with the fools. I wanted to operate in a way that was very different to a traditional supplier relationship. Um, secretary that the data difference insights program is, is one of many that we've been working with last on, um, over the last five years, um, as having said already, um, cloud gave a number of, uh, advantages certainly from a big data perspective and things that, that enabled us today. Um, I'm from an Accenture perspective that allowed us to bring in a number of the different teams that we have say, cloud teams, security teams, um, and drafted from an insurance perspective, as well as the more traditional services that people would associate with the country. >>I mean, so much of this is about embracing comprehensive change to experiment and innovate and try different things. Matthew, how, how do you help, uh, an entity like West Midlands police think differently when they are, there are these ways of doing things that people are used to, how do you help them think about what is the art of the possible, as Helen said, >>There's a few things to that enable those being critical is trying to co-create solutions together. Yeah. There's no point just turning up with, um, what we think is the right answer, try and say, um, collectively work three, um, the issues that the fullest is seeing and the outcomes they're looking to achieve rather than simply focusing on a long list of requirements, I think was critical and then being really open to working together to create the right solution. Um, rather than just, you know, trying to pick something off the shelf that maybe doesn't fit the forces requirements in the way that it should too, >>Right. It's not always a one size fits all. >>Obviously, you know, today what we believe is critical is making sure that we're creating something that met the forces needs, um, in terms of the outcomes they're looking to achieve the financial envelopes that were available, um, and how we can deliver those in a, uh, iterative agile way, um, rather than spending years and years, um, working towards an outcome, um, that is gonna update before you even get that. >>So Helen, how, how are things different? What kinds of business functions and processes have been re-imagined in, in light of this change and this shift >>It's, it's actually unrecognizable now, um, in certain areas of the business as it was before. So to give you a little bit of, of context, when we, um, started working with essentially an AWS on the data driven insights program, it was very much around providing, um, what was called locally, a wizzy tool for our intelligence analyst to interrogate data, look at data, you know, decide whether they could do anything predictive with it. And it was very much sort of a back office function to sort of tidy things up for us and make us a bit better in that, in that area or a lot better in that area. And it was rolled out to a number of offices, a small number on the front line. Um, and really it was, um, in line with a mobility strategy that we, hardware officers were getting new smartphones for the first time, um, to do sort of a lot of things on, on, um, policing apps and things like that to again, to avoid them, having to keep driving back to police stations, et cetera. >>And the pilot was so successful. Every officer now has access to this data, um, on their mobile devices. So it literally went from a handful of people in an office somewhere using it to do sort of clever whizzbang things to, um, every officer in the force, being able to access that level of data at their fingertips. Literally. So what they were touched we've done before is if they needed to check and address or check details of an individual, um, just as one example, they would either have to, in many cases, go back to a police station to look it up themselves on a desktop computer. Well, they would have to make a call back to a centralized function and speak to an operator, relay the questions, either, wait for the answer or wait for a call back with the answer when those people are doing the data interrogation manually. >>So the biggest change for us is the self-service nature of the data we now have available. So officers can do it themselves on their phone, wherever they might be. So the efficiency savings from that point of view are immense. And I think just parallel to that is the quality of our, because we had a lot of data, but just because you've got a lot of data and a lot of information doesn't mean it's big data and it's valuable necessarily. Um, so again, it was having the single source of truth as we, as we call it. So you know that when you are completing those safe searches and getting the responses back, that it is the most accurate information we hold. And also you're getting it back within minutes, as opposed to, you know, half an hour, an hour or a drive back to a station. So it's making officers more efficient and it's also making them safer. The more efficient they are, the more time they have to spend out with the public doing what they, you know, we all should be doing, >>Seen that kind of return on investment, because what you were just describing with all the steps that we needed to be taken in prior to this, to verify an address say, and those are precious seconds when someone's life is on the line in, in sort of in the course of everyday police work. >>Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's difficult to put a price on it. It's difficult to quantify. Um, but all the, you know, the minutes here and that certainly add up to a significant amount of efficiency savings, and we've certainly been able to demonstrate the officers are spending less time up police stations as a result or more time out on the front frontline also they're safer because they can get information about what may or may not be and address what may or may not have occurred in an area before very, very quickly without having to wait. >>Thank you. I want to hear your observations of working so closely with this West Midlands police. Have you noticed anything about changes in its culture and its operating model in how police officers interact with one another? Have you seen any changes since this technology change? >>What's unique about the Western new misplaces, the buy-in from the top down, the chief and his exact team and Helen as the leader from an IOT perspective, um, the entire force is bought in. So what is a significant change program? Uh, I'm not trickles three. Um, everyone in the organization, um, change is difficult. Um, and there's a lot of time effort. That's been put into both the technical delivery and the business change and adoption aspects around each of the projects. Um, but you can see the step change that is making in each aspect to the organization, uh, and where that's putting West Midlands police as a leader in, um, technology I'm policing in the UK. And I think globally, >>And this is a question for both of you because Matthew, as you said, change is difficult and there is always a certain intransigence in workplaces about this is just the way we've always done things and we're used to this and don't try us to get us. Don't try to get us to do anything new here. It works. How do you get the buy-in that you need to do this kind of digital transformation? >>I think it, it would be wrong to say it was easy. Um, um, we also have to bear in mind that this was one program in a five-year program. So there was a lot of change going on, um, both internally for some of our back office functions, as well as front Tai, uh, frontline offices. So with DDI in particular, I think the stat change occurred when people could see what it could do for them. You know, we had lots of workshops and seminars where we all talk about, you know, big data and it's going to be great and it's data analytics and it's transformational, you know, and quite rightly people that are very busy doing a day job that not necessarily technologists in the main and, you know, are particularly interested quite rightly so in what we are not dealing with the cloud, you know? >>And it was like, yeah, okay. It's one more thing. And then when they started to see on that, on their phones and what teams could do, that's when it started to sell itself. And I think that's when we started to see, you know, to see the stat change, you know, and, and if we, if we have any issues now it's literally, you know, our help desks in meltdown. Cause everyone's like, well, we call it manage without this anymore. And I think that speaks for itself. So it doesn't happen overnight. It's sort of incremental changes and then that's a step change in attitude. And when they see it working and they see the benefits, they want to use it more. And that's how it's become fundamental to all policing by itself, really, without much selling >>You, Helen just made a compelling case for how to get buy in. Have you discovered any other best practices when you are trying to get everyone on board for this kind of thing? >>We've um, we've used a lot of the traditional techniques, things around comms and engagement. We've also used things like, um, the 30 day challenge and nudge theory around how can we gradually encourage people to use things? Um, I think there's a point where all of this around, how do we just keep it simple and keep it user centric from an end user perspective? I think DDI is a great example of where the, the technology is incredibly complex. The solution itself is, um, you know, extremely large and, um, has been very difficult to, um, get delivered. But at the heart of it is a very simple front end for the user to encourage it and take that complexity away from them. Uh, I think that's been critical through the whole piece of DDR. >>One final word from Helen. I want to hear, where do you go from here? What is the longterm vision? I know that this has made productivity, um, productivity savings equivalent to 154 full-time officers. Uh, what's next, >>I think really it's around, um, exploiting what we've got. Um, I use the phrase quite a lot, dialing it up, which drives my technical architects crazy. But so, because it's apparently not that simple, but, um, you know, we've, we've been through significant change in the last five years and we are still continuing to batch all of those changes into everyday, um, operational policing. But what we need to see is we need to exploit and build on the investments that we've made in terms of data and claims specifically, the next step really is about expanding our pool of data and our functions. Um, so that, you know, we keep getting better and better at this. And the more we do, the more data we have, the more refined we can be, the more precise we are with all of our actions. Um, you know, we're always being expected to, again, look after the public purse and do more for less. >>And I think this is certainly an and our cloud journey and, and cloud first by design, which is where we are now, um, is helping us to be future-proofed. So for us, it's very much an investment. And I see now that we have good at embedded in operational policing for me, this is the start of our journey, not the end. So it's really exciting to see where we can go from here. Exciting times. Indeed. Thank you so much. Lily, Helen and Matthew for joining us. I really appreciate it. Thank you. And you are watching the cube stay tuned for more of the cubes coverage of the AWS reinvent Accenture executive summit. I'm Rebecca Knight from around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome to the cube virtual coverage of the executive summit at AWS reinvent 2020 virtual. This is the cube virtual. We can't be there in person like we are every year we have to be remote. This executive summit is with special programming supported by Accenture where the cube virtual I'm your host John for a year, we had a great panel here called uncloud first digital transformation from some experts, Stuart driver, the director of it and infrastructure and operates at lion Australia, Douglas Regan, managing director, client account lead at lion for Accenture as a deep Islam associate director application development lead for Centure gentlemen, thanks for coming on the cube virtual that's a mouthful, all that digital, but the bottom line it's cloud transformation. This is a journey that you guys have been on together for over 10 years to be really a digital company. Now, some things have happened in the past year that kind of brings all this together. This is about the next generation organization. So I want to ask Stuart you first, if you can talk about this transformation at lion has undertaken some of the challenges and opportunities and how this year in particular has brought it together because you know, COVID has been the accelerant of digital transformation. Well, if you're 10 years in, I'm sure you're there. You're in the, uh, on that wave right now. Take a minute to explain this transformation journey. >>Yeah, sure. So a number of years back, we, we looked at kind of our infrastructure in our landscape trying to figure out where we >>Wanted to go next. And we were very analog based and stuck in the old it groove of, you know, Capitol reef rash, um, struggling to transform, struggling to get to a digital platform and we needed to change it up so that we could become very different business to the one that we were back then obviously cloud is an accelerant to that. And we had a number of initiatives that needed a platform to build on. And a cloud infrastructure was the way that we started to do that. So we went through a number of transformation programs that we didn't want to do that in the old world. We wanted to do it in a new world. So for us, it was partnering up with a dried organizations that can take you on the journey and, uh, you know, start to deliver bit by bit incremental progress, uh, to get to the, uh, I guess the promise land. >>Um, we're not, not all the way there, but to where we're on the way along. And then when you get to some of the challenges like we've had this year, um, it makes all of the hard work worthwhile because you can actually change pretty quickly, um, provide capacity and, uh, and increase your environments and, you know, do the things that you need to do in a much more dynamic way than we would have been able to previously where we might've been waiting for the hardware vendors, et cetera, to deliver capacity. So for us this year, it's been a pretty strong year from an it perspective and delivering for the business needs >>Before I hit the Douglas. I want to just real quick, a redirect to you and say, you know, if all the people said, Oh yeah, you got to jump on cloud, get in early, you know, a lot of naysayers like, well, wait till to mature a little bit, really, if you got in early and you, you know, paying your dues, if you will taking that medicine with the cloud, you're really kind of peaking at the right time. Is that true? Is that one of the benefits that comes out of this getting in the cloud? Yeah, >>John, this has been an unprecedented year, right. And, um, you know, Australia, we had to live through Bush fires and then we had covert and, and then we actually had to deliver a, um, a project on very nice transformational project, completely remote. And then we also had had some, some cyber challenges, which is public as well. And I don't think if we weren't moved into and enabled through the cloud, we would have been able to achieve that this year. It would have been much different and would have been very difficult to do the backing. We're able to work and partner with Amazon through this year, which is unprecedented and actually come out the other end and we've delivered a brand new digital capability across the entire business. Um, in many, you know, wouldn't have been impossible if we could, I guess, stayed in the old world. The fact that we were moved into the new Naval by the new allowed us to work in this unprecedented year. >>Just quilt. What's your personal view on this? Because I've been saying on the Cuban reporting necessity is the mother of all invention and the word agility has been kicked around as kind of a cliche, Oh, it'd be agile. You know, we're going to get the city, you get a minute on specifically, but from your perspective, uh, Douglas, what does that mean to you? Because there is benefits there for being agile. And >>I mean, I think as Stuart mentioned, right, in a lot of these things we try to do and, you know, typically, you know, hardware and, uh, the last >>To be told and, and, and always on the critical path to be done, we really didn't have that in this case, what we were doing with our projects in our deployments, right. We were able to move quickly able to make decisions in line with the business and really get things going. Right. So you see a lot of times in a traditional world, you have these inhibitors, you have these critical path, it takes weeks and months to get things done as opposed to hours and days, and, and truly allowed us to, we had to, you know, VJ things, move things. And, you know, we were able to do that in this environment with AWS to support and the fact that they can kind of turn things off and on as quickly as we needed. >>Yeah. Cloud-scale is great for speed. So DECA, Gardez get your thoughts on this cloud first mission, you know, it, you know, the dev ops world, they saw this early, that jumping in there, they saw the, the, the agility. Now the theme this year is modern applications with the COVID pandemic pressure, there's real business pressure to make that happen. How did you guys learn to get there fast? And what specifically did you guys do at Accenture and how did it all come together? Can you take us inside kind of how it played out? >>Right. So, yeah, we started off with, as we do in most cases with a much more bigger group, and we worked with lions functional experts and, uh, the lost knowledge that allowed the infrastructure had. Um, we then applied our journey to cloud strategy, which basically revolves around the seminars and, and, uh, you know, the deep three steps from our perspective, uh, assessing the current and bottom and setting up the new cloud environment. And as we go modernizing and, and migrating these applications to the cloud now, you know, one of the key things that, uh, you know, we learned along this journey was that, you know, you can have the best plans, but bottom line that we were dealing with, we often than not have to make changes, uh, what a lot of agility and also work with a lot of collaboration with the, uh, lion team, as well as, uh, uh, AWS. I think the key thing for me was being able to really bring it all together. It's not just, uh, you know, we want to hear it's all of us working together to make this happen. >>What were some of the learnings real quick journey there? >>So I think perspective, the key learnings were that, you know, uh, you know, work, when you look back at, uh, the, the infrastructure that was that we were trying to migrate over to the cloud. A lot of the documentation, et cetera, was not, uh, available. We were having to, uh, figure out a lot of things on the fly. Now that really required us to have, uh, uh, people with deep expertise who could go into those environments and, and work out, uh, you know, the best ways to, to migrate the workloads to the cloud. Uh, I think, you know, the, the biggest thing for me was making sure all the had on that real SMEs across the board globally, that we could leverage across the various technologies, uh, uh, and, and, and, you know, that would really work in our collaborative and agile environment with line. >>Let's do what I got to ask you. How did you address your approach to the cloud and what was your experience? >>Yeah, for me, it's around getting the foundations right. To start with and then building on them. Um, so, you know, you've got to have your, your, your process and you've got to have your, your kind of your infrastructure there and your blueprints ready. Um, AWS do a great job of that, right. Getting the foundations right. And then building upon it, and then, you know, partnering with Accenture allows you to do that very successfully. Um, I think, um, you know, the one thing that was probably surprising to us when we started down this journey and kind of after we got a long way down the track and looking backwards is actually how much you can just turn off. Right? So a lot of stuff that you, uh, you get electric with a legacy in your environment, and when you start to work through it with the types of people that civic just mentioned, you know, the technical expertise working with the business, um, you can really rationalize your environment and, uh, you know, cloud is a good opportunity to do that, to drive that legacy out. >>Um, so you know, a few things there, the other thing is, um, you've got to try and figure out the benefits that you're going to get out of moving here. So there's no point in just taking something that is not delivering a huge amount of value in the traditional world, moving it into the cloud, and guess what is going to deliver the same limited amount of value. So you've got to transform it, and you've got to make sure that you build it for the future and understand exactly what you're trying to gain out of it. So again, you need a strong collaboration. You need a good partners to work with, and you need good engagement from the business as well, because the kind of, uh, you know, digital transformation, cloud transformation, isn't really an it project, I guess, fundamentally it is at the core, but it's a business project that you've got to get the whole business aligned on. You've got to make sure that your investment streams are appropriate and that's, uh, you're able to understand the benefits and the value that say, you're going to drive back towards the business. >>Let's do it. If you don't mind me asking, what was some of the obstacles you encountered or learnings, um, that might different from the expectation we all been there, Hey, you know, we're going to change the world. Here's the sales pitch, here's the outcome. And then obviously things happen, you know, you learn legacy, okay. Let's put some containerization around that cloud native, um, all that rational. You're talking about what are, and you're going to have obstacles. That's how you learn. That's how perfection has developed. How, what obstacles did you come up with and how are they different from your expectations going in? >>Yeah, they're probably no different from other people that have gone down the same journey. If I'm totally honest, the, you know, 70 or 80% of what you do is relatively easy of the known quantity. It's relatively modern architectures and infrastructures, and you can upgrade, migrate, move them into the cloud, whatever it is, rehost, replatform, rearchitect, whatever it is you want to do, it's the other stuff, right? It's the stuff that always gets left behind. And that's the challenge. It's, it's getting that last bit over the line and making sure that you haven't been invested in the future while still carrying all of your legacy costs and complexity within your environment. So, um, to be quite honest, that's probably taken longer and has been more of a challenge than we thought it would be. Um, the other piece I touched on earlier on in terms of what was surprising was actually how much of, uh, your environment is actually not needed anymore. >>When you start to put a critical eye across it and understand, um, uh, ask the tough questions and start to understand exactly what, what it is you're trying to achieve. So if you ask a part of a business, do they still need this application or this service a hundred percent of the time, they will say yes until you start to lay out to them, okay, now I'm going to cost you this to migrate it or this, to run it in the future. And, you know, here's your ongoing costs and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And then, uh, for a significant amount of those answers, you get a different response when you start to layer on the true value of it. So you start to flush out those hidden costs within the business, and you start to make some critical decisions as a company based on, uh, based on that. So that was a little tougher than we first thought and probably broader than we thought there was more of that than we anticipated, um, which actually results in a much cleaner environment, post post migration, >>You know, the old expression, if it moves automated, you know, it's kind of a joke on government, how they want to tax everything, you know, you want to automate, that's a key thing in cloud, and you've got to discover those opportunities to create value Stuart and Siddique. Mainly if you can weigh in on this love to know the percentage of total cloud that you have now, versus when you started, because as you start to uncover whether it's by design for purpose, or you discover opportunity to innovate, like you guys have, I'm sure it kind of, you took on some territory inside Lyon, what percentage of cloud now versus start? >>Yeah. And at the start it was minimal, right. You know, close to zero, right. Single and single digits. Right. It was mainly SAS environments that we had, uh, sitting in clouds when we, uh, when we started, um, Doug mentioned earlier on a really significant transformation project, um, that we've undertaken and recently gone live on a multi-year one. Um, you know, that's all stood up on AWS and is a significant portion of our environment, um, in terms of what we can move to cloud. Uh, we're probably at about 80 or 90% now. And the balance bit is, um, legacy infrastructure that is just going to retire as we go through the cycle rather than migrate to the cloud. Um, so we are significantly cloud-based and, uh, you know, we're reaping the benefits of it in a year, like 2020, and makes you glad that you did all of the hard yards in the previous years when you started that business challenges thrown out as, >>So do you any common reaction still the cloud percentage penetration? >>Sorry, I didn't, I didn't guys don't, but I, I was going to say it was, I think it's like the 80 20 rule, right? We, we, we worked really hard in the, you know, I think 2018, 19 to get any person off, uh, after getting onto the cloud and, or the last year is the 20% that we have been migrating. And Stuart said like a non-athlete that is also, that's going to be the diet. And I think our next big step is going to be obviously, you know, the icing on the cake, which is to decommission all these apps as well. Right. So, you know, to get the real benefits out of, uh, the whole conservation program from a, uh, from a >>Douglas and Stewart, can you guys talk about the decision around the cloud because you guys have had success with AWS, why AWS how's that decision made? Can you guys give some insight into some of those thoughts? >>I can, I can start, start off. I think back when the decision was made and it was, Oh, it was a while back, um, you know, there's some clear advantages of moving relay, Ws, a lot of alignment with some of the significant projects and, uh, the trend, that particular one big transformation project that we've alluded to as well. Um, you know, we needed some, um, some very robust and, um, just future proof and, um, proven technology. And AWS gave that to us. We needed a lot of those blueprints to help us move down the path. We didn't want to reinvent everything. So, um, you know, having a lot of that legwork done for us and an AWS gives you that, right. And particularly when you partner up with, uh, with a company like Accenture as well, you get combinations of the technology and the skills and the knowledge to, to move you forward in that direction. >>So, um, you know, for us, it was a, uh, uh, it was a decision based on, you know, best of breed, um, you know, looking forward and, and trying to predict the future needs and, and, and kind of the environmental that we might need. Um, and, you know, partnering up with organizations that can take you on the journey. Yeah. And just to build on it. So obviously, you know, lion's like an NWS, but, you know, we knew it was a very good choice given that, um, uh, the skills and the capability that we had, as well as the assets and tools we had to get the most out of, um, out of AWS. And obviously our, our CEO globally is just spending, you know, announcement about a huge investment that we're making in cloud. Um, but you know, we've, we've worked very well. AWS, we've done some joint workshops and joint investments, um, some joint POC. So yeah, w we have a very good working relationship, AWS, and I think, um, one incident to reflect upon whether it's cyber it's and again, where we actually jointly, you know, dove in with, um, with Amazon and some of their security experts and our experts. And we're able to actually work through that with mine quite successful. So, um, you know, really good behaviors as an organization, but also really good capabilities. >>Yeah. As you guys, you're essential cloud outcomes, research shown, it's the cycle of innovation with the cloud. That's creating a lot of benefits, knowing what you guys know now, looking back certainly COVID is impacted a lot of people kind of going through the same process, knowing what you guys know now, would you advocate people to jump on this transformation journey? If so, how, and what tweaks they make, which changes, what would you advise? >>Uh, I might take that one to start with. Um, I hate to think where we would have been when, uh, COVID kicked off here in Australia and, you know, we were all sent home, literally were at work on the Friday, and then over the weekend. And then Monday, we were told not to come back into the office and all of a sudden, um, our capacity in terms of remote access and I quadrupled, or more four, five X, what we had on the Friday we needed on the Monday. And we were able to stand that up during the day Monday into Tuesday, because we were cloud-based and, uh, you know, we just spun up your instances and, uh, you know, sort of our licensing, et cetera. And we had all of our people working remotely, um, within, uh, you know, effectively one business day. Um, I know peers of mine in other organizations and industries that are relying on kind of a traditional wise and getting hardware, et cetera, that were weeks and months before they could get there the right hardware to be able to deliver to their user base. >>So, um, you know, one example where you're able to scale and, uh, um, get, uh, get value out of this platform beyond probably what was anticipated at the time you talk about, um, you know, less the, in all of these kinds of things. And you can also think of a few scenarios, but real world ones where you're getting your business back up and running in that period of time is, is just phenomenal. There's other stuff, right? There's these programs that we've rolled out, you do your sizing, um, and in the traditional world, you would just go out and buy more servers than you need. And, you know, probably never realize the full value of those, you know, the capability of those servers over the life cycle of them. Whereas, you know, in a cloud world, you put in what you think is right. And if it's not right, you pump it up a little bit when, when all of your metrics and so on, tell you that you need to bump it up. And conversely you scale it down at the same rate. So for us, with the types of challenges and programs and, uh, uh, and just business need, that's come at as this year, uh, we wouldn't have been able to do it without a strong cloud base, uh, to, uh, to move forward. >>You know, Douglas, one of the things I talked to, a lot of people on the right side of history who have been on the right wave with cloud, with the pandemic, and they're happy, they're like, and they're humble. Like, well, we're just lucky, you know, luck is preparation meets opportunity. And this is really about you guys getting in early and being prepared and readiness. This is kind of important as people realize, then you gotta be ready. I mean, it's not just, you don't get lucky by being in the right place, the right time. And there were a lot of companies were on the wrong side of history here who might get washed away. This is a super important, I think, >>To echo and kind of building on what Stewart said. I think that the reason that we've had success and I guess the momentum is we didn't just do it in isolation within it and technology. It was actually linked to broader business changes, you know, creating basically a digital platform for the entire business, moving the business, where are they going to be able to come back stronger after COVID, when they're actually set up for growth, um, and actually allows, you know, a line to achievements growth objectives, and also its ambitions as far as what it wants to do, uh, with growth in whatever they make, do with acquiring other companies and moving into different markets and launching new products. So we've actually done it in a way that is, you know, real and direct business benefit, uh, that actually enables line to grow >>General. I really appreciate you coming. I have one final question. If you can wrap up here, uh, Stuart and Douglas, you don't mind weighing in what's the priorities for the future. What's next for lion in a century >>Christmas holidays, I'll start Christmas holidays. I spent a good year and then a, and then a reset, obviously, right? So, um, you know, it's, it's figuring out, uh, transform what we've already transformed, if that makes sense. So God, a huge proportion of our services sitting in the cloud. Um, but we know we're not done even with the stuff that is in there. We need to take those next steps. We need more and more automation and orchestration. We need to, um, our environment is more future proof. We need to be able to work with the business and understand what's coming at them so that we can, um, you know, build that into, into our environment. So again, it's really transformation on top of transformation is the way that I'll describe it. And it's really an open book, right? Once you get it in and you've got the capabilities and the evolving tool sets that AWS continue to bring to the market based, um, you know, working with the partners to, to figure out how we unlock that value, um, you know, drive our costs down efficiency, uh, all of those kind of, you know, standard metrics. >>Um, but you know, we're looking for the next things to transform and showed value back out to our customer base, um, that, uh, that we continue to, you know, sell our products to and work with and understand how we can better meet their needs. Yeah, I think just to echo that, I think it's really leveraging this and then did you capability they have and getting the most out of that investment. And then I think it's also moving to, uh, and adopting more new ways of working as far as, you know, the speed of the business, um, is getting up to speed in the market is changing. So being able to launch and do things quickly and also, um, competitive and efficient operating costs, uh, now that they're in the cloud, right? So I think it's really leveraging the most out of the platform and then, you know, being efficient in launching things. So putting them with >>Siddique, any word from you on your priorities by you see this year in folding, >>There's got to say like e-learning squares, right, for me around, you know, just journey. This is a journey to the cloud, right? >>And, uh, you know, as well dug into sort of Saturday, it's getting all, you know, different parts of the organization along the journey business to it, to your, uh, product lenders, et cetera. Right. And it takes time. It is tough, but, uh, uh, you know, you got to get started on it. And, you know, once we, once we finish off, uh, it's the realization of the benefits now that, you know, looking forward, I think for, from Alliance perspective, it is, uh, you know, once we migrate all the workloads to the cloud, it is leveraging, uh, all stack drive. And as I think Stewart said earlier, uh, with, uh, you know, the latest and greatest stuff that AWS it's basically working to see how we can really, uh, achieve more better operational excellence, uh, from a, uh, from a cloud perspective. >>Well, Stewart, thanks for coming on with a and sharing your environment and what's going on and your journey you're on the right wave. Did the work you're in, it's all coming together with faster, congratulations for your success, and, uh, really appreciate Douglas with Steve for coming on as well from essential. Thank you for coming on. Thanks, John. Okay. Just the cubes coverage of executive summit at AWS reinvent. This is where all the thought leaders share their best practices, their journeys, and of course, special programming with Accenture and the cube. I'm Sean ferry, your host, thanks for watching from around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome everyone to the cube virtuals coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Part of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. We are talking today about reinventing the energy data platform. We have two guests joining us. First. We have Johan Krebbers. He is the GM digital emerging technologies and VP of it. Innovation at shell. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Johan you're welcome. And next we have Liz Dennett. She is the lead solution architect for O S D U on AWS. Thank you so much, Liz, maybe here. So I want to start our conversation by talking about OSD. You like so many great innovations. It started with a problem. Johann, what was the problem you were trying to solve at shell? We go back a couple of years, we started summer 2017, where we had a meeting with the guys from exploration in shell, and the main problem they had, of course, they got lots of lots of data, but are unable to find the right data. They need to work from all over the place and told him >>To, and we'll probably try to solve is how that person working exploration could find their proper date, not just a day, but also the date you really needed that we did probably talked about is summer 2017. And we said, okay, the only way ABC is moving forward is to start pulling that data into a single data platform. And that, that was at the time that we called it as the, you, the subsurface data universe in there was about the shell name was so in, in January, 2018, we started a project with Amazon to start grating a co fricking that building, that Stu environment, that the, the universe, so that single data level to put all your exploration and Wells data into that single environment that was intent. And every cent, um, already in March of that same year, we said, well, from Michele point of view, we will be far better off if we could make this an industry solution and not just a shelf solution, because Shelby, Shelby, if you can make an industry solution, but people are developing applications for it. >>It also is far better than for shell to say we haven't shell special solution because we don't make money out of how we start a day that we can make money out of it. We have access to the data, we can explore the data. So storing the data we should do as efficiently possibly can. So we monitor, we reach out to about eight or nine other last, uh, or I guess operators like the economics, like the tutorials, like the shepherds of this world and say, Hey, we inshallah doing this. Do you want to join this effort? And to our surprise, they all said, yes. And then in September, 2018, we had our kickoff meeting with your open group where we said, we said, okay, if you want to work together and lots of other companies, we also need to look at, okay, how, how we organize that. >>Or if you started working with lots of large companies, you need to have some legal framework around some framework around it. So that's why we went to the open group and say, okay, let's, let's form the old forum as we call it at the time. So it's September, 2080, where I did a Galleria in Houston, but the kickoff meeting for the OT four with about 10 members at the time. So that's just over two years ago, we started an exercise for me called ODU. They kicked it off. Uh, and so that's really them will be coming from and how we've got there. Also >>The origin story. Um, what, so what digging a little deeper there? What were some of the things you were trying to achieve with the OSU? >>Well, a couple of things we've tried to achieve with you, um, first is really separating data from applications for what is, what is the biggest problem we have in the subsurface space that the data and applications are all interlinked or tied together. And if, if you have them and a new company coming along and say, I have this new application and he's access to the data that is not possible because the data often interlinked with the application. So the first thing we did is really breaking the link between the application, the data as those levels, the first thing we did, secondly, put all the data to a single data platform, take the silos out what was happening in the sub-service space. They got all the data in what we call silos in small little islands out there. So what we're trying to do is first break the link to great, great. >>They put the data single day, the bathroom, and the third part, put a standard layer on top of that, it's an API layer on top to equate a platform. So we could create an ecosystem out of companies to start a valving Schoff application on top of dev data platform across you might have a data platform, but you're only successful if have a rich ecosystem of people start developing applications on top of that. And then you can export the data like small companies, last company, university, you name it, we're getting after create an ecosystem out here. So the three things were first break the link between application data, just break it and put data at the center and also make sure that data, this data structure would not be managed by one company, but it would only be met. It would be managed the data structures by the ODI forum. Secondly, then put a, the data, a single data platform certainly then has an API layer on top and then create an ecosystem. Really go for people, say, please start developing applications, because now you had access to the data. I've got the data no longer linked to somebody whose application was all freely available, but an API layer that was, that was all September, 2018, more or less. >>And hear a little bit. Can you talk a little bit about some of the imperatives from the AWS standpoint in terms of what you were trying to achieve with this? Yeah, absolutely. And this whole thing is Johann said started with a challenge that was really brought out at shell. The challenges that geoscientists spend up to 70% of their time looking for data. I'm a geologist I've spent more than 70% of my time trying to find data in these silos. And from there, instead of just figuring out how we could address that one problem, we worked together to really understand the root cause of these challenges and working backwards from that use case OSU and OSU on AWS has really enabled customers to create solutions that span, not just this in particular problem, but can really scale to be inclusive of the entire energy value chain and deliver value from these use cases to the energy industry and beyond. Thank you, Lee, uh, Johann. So talk a little bit about Accenture's cloud first approach and how it has, uh, helped shell work faster and better with speed. >>Well, of course, access a cloud first approach only works together. It's been an Amazon environment, AWS environment. So we're really looking at, uh, at, at Accenture and others altogether helping shell in this space. Now the combination of the two is what we're really looking at, uh, where access of course can be recent knowledge student to that environment operates support knowledge, do an environment. And of course, Amazon will be doing that to today's environment that underpinning their services, et cetera. So, uh, we would expect a combination, a lot of goods when we started rolling out and put in production, the old you are three and bug because we are anus. Then when the release feed comes to the market in Q1, next year of ODU have already started going to Audi production inside shell. But as the first release, which is ready for prime time production across an enterprise will be released just before Christmas, last year when he's still in may of this year. But really three is the first release we want to use for full scale production deployment inside shell, and also the operators around the world. And there is one Amazon, sorry, at that one. Um, extensive can play a role in the ongoing, in the, in deployment building up, but also support environment. >>So one of the other things that we talk a lot about here on the cube is sustainability. And this is a big imperative at so many organizations around the world in particular energy companies. How does this move to OSD you, uh, help organizations become, how is this a greener solution for companies? >>Well, first we make it's a greatest solution because you start making a much more efficient use of your resources, which is already an important one. The second thing we're doing is also, we started ODU in framers, in the oil and gas space in the expert development space. We've grown, uh, OTU in our strategy of growth. I was, you know, also do an alternative energy sociology. We'll all start supporting next year. Things like solar farms, wind farms, uh, the, the dermatomal environment hydration. So it becomes an and an open energy data platform, not just what I want to get into sleep. That's what new industry, any type of energy industry. So our focus is to create, bring the data of all those various energy data sources to get me to a single data platform you can to use AI and other technologies on top of that, to exploit the data, to meet again into a single data platform. >>Liz, I want to ask you about security because security is, is, is such a big concern when it comes to data. How secure is the data on OSD? You, um, actually, can I talk, can I do a follow up on this sustainability talking? Oh, absolutely. By all means. I mean, I want to interject though security is absolutely our top priority. I don't mean to move away from that, but with sustainability, in addition to the benefits of the OSU data platform, when a company moves from on-prem to the cloud, they're also able to leverage the benefits of scale. Now, AWS is committed to running our business in the most environmentally friendly way possible. And our scale allows us to achieve higher resource utilization and energy efficiency than a typical data center. >>Now, a recent study by four 51 research found that AWS is infrastructure is 3.6 times more energy efficient than the median of surveyed enterprise data centers. Two thirds of that advantage is due to higher, um, server utilization and a more energy efficient server population. But when you factor in the carbon intensity of consumed electricity and renewable energy purchases for 51 found that AWS performs the same task with an 88% lower carbon footprint. Now that's just another way that AWS and OSU are working to support our customers is they seek to better understand their workflows and make their legacy businesses less carbon intensive. >>That's that's incorrect. Those are those statistics are incredible. Do you want to talk a little bit now about security? Absolutely. And security will always be AWS is top priority. In fact, AWS has been architected to be the most flexible and secure cloud computing environment available today. Our core infrastructure is built to satisfy. There are the security requirements for the military, local banks and other high sensitivity organizations. And in fact, AWS uses the same secure hardware and software to build and operate each of our regions. So that customers benefit from the only commercial cloud that's hat hits service offerings and associated supply chain vetted and deemed secure enough for top secret workloads. That's backed by a deep set of cloud security tools with more than 200 security compliance and governmental service and key features as well as an ecosystem of partners like Accenture, that can really help our customers to make sure that their environments for their data meet and or exceed their security requirements. Johann, I want you to talk a little bit about how OSD you can be used today. Does it only handle subsurface data? >>Uh, today it's Honda's subserves or Wells data, we go to add to that production around the middle of next year. That means that the whole upstate business. So we've got goes from exploration all the way to production. You've made it together into a single data platform. So production will be added around Q3 of next year. Then a principal. We have a difficult, the elder data that single environment, and we want to extend them to other data sources or energy sources like solar farms, wind farms, uh, hydrogen, hydro, et cetera. So we're going to add a whore, a whole list of audit day energy source to them and be all the data together into a single data club. So we move from a falling guest data platform to an aniseed data platform. That's really what our objective is because the whole industry, if you look it over, look at our companies are all moving in. That same two acts of quantity of course, are very strong in oil and gas, but also increased the, got into the other energy sources like, like solar, like wind, like th like highly attended, et cetera. So we would be moving exactly. But that same method that, that, that the whole OSU can't really support at home. And as a spectrum of energy sources, >>Of course, and Liz and Johan. I want you to close us out here by just giving us a look into your crystal balls and talking about the five and 10 year plan for OSD. You we'll start with you, Liz. What do you, what do you see as the future holding for this platform? Um, honestly, the incredibly cool thing about working at AWS is you never know where the innovation and the journey is going to take you. I personally am looking forward to work with our customers, wherever their OSU journeys, take them, whether it's enabling new energy solutions or continuing to expand, to support use cases throughout the energy value chain and beyond, but really looking forward to continuing to partner as we innovate to slay tomorrow's challenges, Johann first, nobody can look at any more nowadays, especially 10 years own objective is really in the next five years, you will become the key backbone for energy companies for storing your data. You are efficient intelligence and optimize the whole supply energy supply chain in this world down here, you'll uncovers Liz Dennett. Thank you so much for coming on the cube virtual I'm Rebecca Knight stay tuned for more of our coverage of the Accenture executive summit >>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome everyone to the cubes coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Part of AWS reinvent. I'm your host Rebecca Knight today we're welcoming back to Kubila. We have Kishor Dirk. He is the Accenture senior managing director cloud first global services lead. Welcome back to the show Kishore. Thank you very much. Nice to meet again. And, uh, Tristan moral horse set. He is the managing director, Accenture cloud first North America growth. Welcome back to you to trust and great to be back in grapes here again, Rebecca. Exactly. Even in this virtual format, it is good to see your faces. Um, today we're going to be talking about my nav and green cloud advisor capability. Kishor I want to start with you. So my nav is a platform that is really celebrating its first year in existence. Uh, November, 2019 is when Accenture introduced it. Uh, but it's, it has new relevance in light of this global pandemic that we are all enduring and suffering through. Tell us a little bit about the lineup platform, what it is that cloud platform to help our clients navigate the complexity of cloud and cloud decisions to make it faster. And obviously, you know, we have in the cloud, uh, you know, with >>The increased relevance and all the, especially over the last few months with the impact of COVID crisis and exhibition of digital transformation, you know, we are seeing the transformation or the acceleration to cloud much faster. This platform that you're talking about has enabled and 40 clients globally across different industries. You identify the right cloud solution, navigate the complexity, provide a cloud specific solution simulate for our clients to meet the strategy business needs, and the clients are loving it. >>I want to go to you now trust and tell us a little bit about how mine nav works and how it helps companies make good cloud choice. >>Yeah, so Rebecca, we we've talked about cloud is, is more than just infrastructure and that's what mine app tries to solve for it. It really looks at a variety of variables, including infrastructure operating model and fundamentally what client's business outcomes, um, uh, our clients are, are looking for and, and identifies the optimal solution for what they need. And we assign this to accelerate and we mentioned the pandemic. One of the big focus now is to accelerate. And so we worked through a three-step process. The first is scanning and assessing our client's infrastructure, their data landscape, their application. Second, we use our automated artificial intelligence engine to interact with. We have a wide variety and library of a collective plot expertise. And we look to recommend what is the enterprise architecture and solution. And then third, before we aligned with our clients, we look to simulate and test this scaled up model. And the simulation gives our clients a way to see what cloud is going to look like, feel like and how it's going to transform their business before they go there. >>Tell us a little bit about that in real life. Now as a company, so many of people are working remotely having to collaborate, uh, not in real life. How is that helping them right now? >>So, um, the, the pandemic has put a tremendous strain on systems, uh, because of the demand on those systems. And so we talk about resiliency. We also now need to collaborate across data across people. Um, I think all of us are calling from a variety of different places where our last year we were all at the VA cube itself. Um, and, and cloud technologies such as teams, zoom that we're we're leveraging now has fundamentally accelerated and clients are looking to onboard this for their capabilities. They're trying to accelerate their journey. They realize that now the cloud is what is going to become important for them to differentiate. Once we come out of the pandemic and the ability to collaborate with their employees, their partners, and their clients through these systems is becoming a true business differentiator for our clients. >>Keisha, I want to talk with you now about my navs multiple capabilities, um, and helping clients design and navigate their cloud journeys. Tell us a little bit about the green cloud advisor capability and its significance, particularly as so many companies are thinking more deeply and thoughtfully about sustainability. >>Yes. So since the launch of my lab, we continue to enhance, uh, capabilities for our clients. One of the significant, uh, capabilities that we have enabled is the being taught advisor today. You know, Rebecca, a lot of the businesses are more environmentally aware and are expanding efforts to decrease power consumption, uh, and obviously carbon emissions and, uh, and run a sustainable operations across every aspect of the enterprise. Uh, as a result, you're seeing an increasing trend in adoption of energy, efficient infrastructure in the global market. And one of the things that we did a lot of research we found out is that there's an ability to influence our client's carbon footprint through a better cloud solution. And that's what the internet brings to us, uh, in, in terms of a lot of the client connotation that you're seeing in Europe, North America and others, lot of our clients are accelerating to a green cloud strategy to unlock beta financial, societal and environmental benefit, uh, through obviously cloud-based circular, operational, sustainable products and services. That is something that we are enhancing my now, and we are having active client discussions at this point of time. >>So Tristan, tell us a little bit about how this capability helps clients make greener decisions. >>Yeah. Um, well, let's start about the investments from the cloud providers in renewable and sustainable energy. Um, they have most of the hyperscalers today, um, have been investing significantly on data centers that are run on renewable energy, some incredibly creative constructs on the how to do that. And sustainability is there for a key, um, key item of importance for the hyperscalers and also for our clients who now are looking for sustainable energy. And it turns out this marriage is now possible. I can, we marry the, the green capabilities of the comm providers with a sustainability agenda of our clients. And so what we look into the way the mine EF works is it looks at industry benchmarks and evaluates our current clients, um, capabilities and carpet footprint leveraging their existing data centers. We then look to model from an end-to-end perspective, how the, their journey to the cloud leveraging sustainable and, um, and data centers with renewable energy. We look at how their solution will look like and, and quantify carbon tax credits, um, improve a green index score and provide quantifiable, um, green cloud capabilities and measurable outcomes to our clients, shareholders, stakeholders, clients, and customers. Um, and our green plot advisers sustainability solutions already been implemented at three clients. And in many cases in two cases has helped them reduce the carbon footprint by up to 400% through migration from their existing data center to green cloud. Very, very, >>That is remarkable. Now tell us a little bit about the kinds of clients. Is this, is this more interesting to clients in Europe? Would you say that it's catching on in the United States? Where, what is the breakdown that you're seeing right now? >>Sustainability is becoming such a global agenda and we're seeing our clients, um, uh, tie this and put this at board level, um, uh, agenda and requirements across the globe. Um, Europe has specific constraints around data sovereignty, right, where they need their data in country, but from a green, a sustainability agenda, we see clients across all our markets, North America, Europe, and our growth markets adopt this. And we have seen case studies and all three months. >>Keisha, I want to bring you back into the conversation. Talk a little bit about how MindUP ties into Accenture's cloud first strategy, your Accenture's CEO, Julie Sweet has talked about post COVID leadership requiring every business to become a cloud first business. Tell us a little bit about how this ethos is in Accenture and how you're sort of looking outward with it too. >>So Rebecca mine is the launch pad, uh, to a cloud first transformation for our clients. Uh, Accenture, see your jewelry suite, uh, you know, shared the Accenture cloud first and our substantial investment demonstrate our commitment and is delivering greater value for our clients when they need it the most. And with the digital transformation requiring cloud at scale, you know, we're seeing that in the post COVID leadership, it requires that every business should become a cloud business. And my nap helps them get there by evaluating the cloud landscape, navigating the complexity, modeling architecting and simulating an optimal cloud solution for our clients. And as Justin was sharing a greener cloud. >>So Tristan, talk a little bit more about some of the real life use cases in terms of what are we, what are clients seeing? What are the results that they're having? >>Yes. Thank you, Rebecca. I would say two key things right around my neck. The first is the iterative process. Clients don't want to wait, um, until they get started, they want to get started and see what their journey is going to look like. And the second is fundamental acceleration, dependent make, as we talked about, has accelerated the need to move to cloud very quickly. And my nav is there to do that. So how do we do that? First is generating the business cases. Clients need to know in many cases that they have a business case by business case, we talk about the financial benefits, as well as the business outcomes, the green, green clot impact sustainability impacts with minus. We can build initial recommendations using a basic understanding of their environment and benchmarks in weeks versus months with indicative value savings in the millions of dollars arranges. >>So for example, very recently, we worked with a global oil and gas company, and in only two weeks, we're able to provide an indicative savings for $27 million over five years. This enabled the client to get started, knowing that there is a business case benefit and then iterate on it. And this iteration is, I would say the second point that is particularly important with my nav that we've seen in bank, the clients, which is, um, any journey starts with an understanding of what is the application landscape and what are we trying to do with those, these initial assessments that used to take six to eight weeks are now taking anywhere from two to four weeks. So we're seeing a 40 to 50% reduction in the initial assessment, which gets clients started in their journey. And then finally we've had discussions with all of the hyperscalers to help partner with Accenture and leverage mine after prepared their detailed business case module as they're going to clients. And as they're accelerating the client's journey, so real results, real acceleration. And is there a journey? Do I have a business case and furthermore accelerating the journey once we are by giving the ability to work in iterative approach. >>I mean, it sounds as though that the company that clients and and employees are sort of saying, this is an amazing time savings look at what I can do here in, in so much in a condensed amount of time, but in terms of getting everyone on board, one of the things we talked about last time we met, uh, Tristan was just how much, uh, how one of the obstacles is getting people to sign on and the new technologies and new platforms. Those are often the obstacles and struggles that companies face. Have you found that at all? Or what is sort of the feedback that you're getting from employers? >>Sorry. Yes. We clearly, there are always obstacles to a cloud journey. If there were an obstacles, all our clients would be, uh, already fully in the cloud. What man I gives the ability is to navigate through those, to start quickly. And then as we identify obstacles, we can simulate what things are going to look like. We can continue with certain parts of the journey while we deal with that obstacle. And it's a fundamental accelerator. Whereas in the past one, obstacle would prevent a class from starting. We can now start to address the obstacles one at a time while continuing and accelerating the contrary. That is the fundamental difference. >>Kishor I want to give you the final word here. Tell us a little bit about what is next for Accenture might have and what we'll be discussing next year at the Accenture executive summit >>Sort of echo, we are continuously evolving with our client needs and reinventing, reinventing for the future. For mine, as I've been taught advisor, our plan is to help our clients reduce carbon footprint and again, migrate to a green cloud. Uh, and additionally, we're looking at, you know, two capabilities, uh, which include sovereign cloud advisor, uh, with clients, especially in, in Europe and others are under pressure to meet, uh, stringent data norms that Kristen was talking about. And the sovereign cloud advisor health organization to create an architecture cloud architecture that complies with the green. Uh, I would say the data sovereignty norms that is out there. The other element is around data to cloud. We are seeing massive migration, uh, for, uh, for a lot of the data to cloud. And there's a lot of migration hurdles that come within that. Uh, we have expanded mine app to support assessment capabilities, uh, for, uh, assessing applications, infrastructure, but also covering the entire state, including data and the code level to determine the right cloud solution. So we are, we are pushing the boundaries on what mine app can do with mine. Have you created the ability to take the guesswork out of cloud navigate the complexity? We are roaring risks costs, and we are, you know, achieving client's static business objectives while building a sustainable alerts with being cloud >>Any platform that can take some of the guesswork out of the future. I'm I'm onboard with. Thank you so much, Tristin and Kishore. This has been a great conversation. >>Thank you. >>Stay tuned for more of the cubes coverage of the Accenture executive summit. I'm Rebecca Knight from around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Hey, welcome back to the cubes coverage of 80 us reinvent 2020 virtual centric executive summit. The two great guests here to break down the analysis of the relationship with cloud and essential Brian bowhead director ahead of a century 80. It was business group at Amazon web services. And Andy T a B G the M is essentially Amazon business group lead managing director at Accenture. Uh, I'm sure you're super busy and dealing with all the action, Brian. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. So thank you. You guys essentially has been in the spotlight this week and all through the conference around this whole digital transformation, essentially as business group is celebrating its fifth anniversary. What's new, obviously the emphasis of next gen post COVID generation, highly digital transformation, a lot happening. You got your five-year anniversary, what's new. >>Yeah, it, you know, so if you look back, it's exciting. Um, you know, so it was five years ago. Uh, it was actually October where we, where we launched the Accenture AWS business group. And if we think back five years, I think we're still at the point where a lot of customers were making that transition from, you know, should I move to cloud to how do I move to cloud? Right? And so that was one of the reasons why we launched the business group. And since, since then, certainly we've seen that transition, right? Our conversations today are very much around how do I move to cloud, help me move, help me figure out the business case and then pull together all the different pieces so I can move more quickly, uh, you know, with less risk and really achieve my business outcomes. And I would say, you know, one of the things too, that's, that's really changed over the five years. >>And what we're seeing now is when we started, right, we were focused on migration data and IOT as the big three pillars that we launched with. And those are still incredibly important to us, but just the breadth of capability and frankly, the, the, the breadth of need that we're seeing from customers. And obviously as AWS has matured over the years and launched our new capabilities, we're Eva with Accenture and in the business group, we've broadened our capabilities and deepened our capabilities over the, over the last five years as well. For instance, this year with, with COVID, especially, it's really forced our customers to think differently about their own customers or their citizens, and how do they service those citizens? So we've seen a huge acceleration around customer engagement, right? And we powered that with Accenture customer engagement platform powered by ADA, Amazon connect. And so that's been a really big trend this year. And then, you know, that broadens our capability from just a technical discussion to one where we're now really reaching out and, and, um, and helping transform and modernize that customer and citizen experience as well, which has been exciting to see. >>Yeah, Andy, I want to get your thoughts here. We've been reporting and covering essentially for years. It's not like it's new to you guys. I mean, five years is a great anniversary. You know, check is good relationship, but you guys have been doing the work you've been on the trend line. And then this hits and Andy said on his keynote and I thought he said it beautifully. And he even said it to me in my one-on-one interview with them was it's on full display right now, the whole digital transformation, everything about it is on full display and you're either were prepared for it or you kind of word, and you can see who's there. You guys have been prepared. This is not new. So give us the update from your perspective, how you're taking advantage of this, of this massive shift, highly accelerated digital transformation. >>Well, I think, I think you can be prepared, but you've also got to be prepared to always sort of, I think what we're seeing in, in, um, in, in, in, in recent times and particularly 20 w what is it I think today there are, um, full sense of the enterprise workloads, the cloud, um, you know, that leaves 96 percentile now for him. Um, and I, over the next four to >>Five years, um, we're going to see that sort of, uh, acceleration to the, to the cloud pick up, um, this year is, as Andy touched on, I think, uh, uh, on Tuesday in his, I think the pandemic is a forcing function, uh, for companies to, to really pause and think about everything from, from, you know, how they, um, manage that technology to infrastructure, to just to carotenoids where the data sets to what insights and intelligence that getting from that data. And then eventually even to, to the talent, the talent they have in the organization and how they can be competitive, um, their culture, their culture of innovation, of invention and reinvention. And so I think, I think, you know, when you, when you think of companies out there faced with these challenges, it, it forces us, it forces AWS, it forces AEG to come together and think through how can we help create value for them? How can we help help them move from sort of just causing and rethinking to having real plans in an action and that taking them, uh, into, into implementation. And so that's, that's what we're working on. Um, I think over the next five years, we're looking to just continue to come together and help these, these companies get to the cloud and get the value from the cloud because it's beyond just getting to the cloud attached to them and living in the cloud and, and getting the value from it. >>It's interesting. Andy was saying, don't just put your toe in the water. You got to go beyond the toe in the water kind of approach. Um, I want to get to that large scale cause that's the big pickup this week that I kind of walked away with was it's large scale. Acceleration's not just toe in the water experimentation. Can you guys share, what's causing this large scale end to end enterprise transformation? And what are some of the success criteria have you seen for the folks who have done that? >>Yeah. And I'll, I'll, I'll start. And at the end you can buy a lawn. So, you know, it's interesting if I look back a year ago at re-invent and when I did the cube interview, then we were talking about how the ABG, we were starting to see this shift of customers. You know, we've been working with customers for years on a single of what I'll call a single-threaded programs, right. We can do a migration, we could do SAP, we can do a data program. And then even last year, we were really starting to see customers ask. The question is like, what kind of synergies and what kind of economies of scale do I get when I start bringing these different threads together, and also realizing that it's, you know, to innovate for the business and build new applications, new capabilities. Well, that then is going to inform what data you need to, to hydrate those applications, right? Which then informs your data strategy while a lot of that data is then also embedded in your underlying applications that sit on premises. So you should be thinking through how do you get those applications into the cloud? So you need to draw that line through all of those layers. And that was already starting last year. And so last year we launched the joint transformation program with AEG. And then, so we were ready when this year happened and then it was just an acceleration. So things have been happening faster than we anticipated, >>But we knew this was going to be happening. And luckily we've been in a really good position to help some of our customers really think through all those different layers of kind of pyramid as we've been calling it along with the talent and change pieces, which are also so important as you make this transformation to cloud >>Andy, what's the success factors. Andy Jassy came on stage during the partner day, a surprise fireside chat with Doug Hume and talking about this is really an opportunity for partners to, to change the business landscape with enablement from Amazon. You guys are in a pole position to do that in the marketplace. What's the success factors that you see, >>Um, really from three, three fronts, I'd say, um, w one is the people. Um, and, and I, I, again, I think Andy touched on sort of eight, uh, success factors, uh, early in the week. And for me, it's these three areas that it sort of boils down to these three areas. Um, one is the, the, the, the people, uh, from the leaders that it's really important to set those big, bold visions point the way. And then, and then, you know, set top down goals. How are we going to measure Z almost do get what you measure, um, to be, you know, beyond the leaders, to, to the right people in the right position across the company. We we're finding a key success factor for these end to end transformations is not just the leaders, but you haven't poached across the company, working in a, in a collaborative, shared, shared success model, um, and people who are not afraid to, to invent and fail. >>And so that takes me to perhaps the second point, which is the culture, um, it's important, uh, with finding for the right conditions to be set in the company that enabled, uh, people to move at pace, move at speed, be able to fail fast, um, keep things very, very simple and just keep iterating and that sort of culture of iteration and improvement versus seeking perfection is, is super important for, for success. And then the third part of maybe touch on is, is partners. Um, I think, you know, as we move forward over the next five years, we're going to see an increasing number of players in the ecosystem in the enterprise and state. Um, you're going to see more and more SAS providers. And so it's important for companies and our joint clients out there to pick partners like, um, like AWS or, or Accenture or others, but to pick partners who have all worked together and you have built solutions together, and that allows them to get speed to value quicker. It allows them to bring in pre-assembled solutions, um, and really just drive that transformation in a quicker, it sorts of manner. >>Yeah, that's a great point worth calling out, having that partnership model that's additive and has synergy in the cloud, because one of the things that came out of this this week, this year is reinvented, is there's new things going on in the public cloud, even though hybrid is an operating model, outpost and super relevant. There, there are benefits for being in the cloud and you've got partners API, for instance, and have microservices working together. This is all new, but I got, I got to ask that on that thread, Andy, where did you see your customers going? Because I think, you know, as you work backwards from the customers, you guys do, what's their needs, how do you see them? W you know, where's the puck going? Where can they skate where the puck's going, because you can almost look forward and say, okay, I've got to build modern apps. I got to do the digital transformation. Everything is a service. I get that, but what are they, what solutions are you building for them right now to get there? >>Yeah. And, and of course, with, with, you know, industries blurring and multiple companies, it's always hard to boil down to the exact situations, but you could probably look at it from a sort of a thematic lens. And what we're seeing is as the cloud transformation journey picks up, um, from us perspective, we've seen a material shift in the solutions and problems that we're trying to address with clients that they are asking for us, uh, to, to help, uh, address is no longer just the back office, where you're sort of looking at cost and efficiency and, um, uh, driving gains from that perspective. It's beyond that, it's now materially the top line. It's, how'd you get the driving to the, you know, speed to insights, how'd you get them decomposing, uh, their application set in order to derive those insights. Um, how'd you get them, um, to, to, um, uh, sort of adopt leading edge industry solutions that give them that jump start, uh, and that accelerant to winning the customers, winning the eyeballs. >>Um, and then, and then how'd, you help drive the customer experience. We're seeing a lot of push from clients, um, or ask for help on how do I optimize my customer experience in order to retain my eyeballs. And then how do I make sure I've got a soft self-learning ecosystem of play, um, where, uh, you know, it's not just a practical experience that I can sort of keep learning and iterating, um, how I treat my, my customers, um, and a lot of that, um, that still self-learning, that comes from, you know, putting in intelligence into your, into your systems, getting an AI and ML in there. And so, as a result of that work, we're seeing a lot of push and a lot of what we're doing, uh, is pouring investment into those areas. And then finally, maybe beyond the bottom line, and the top line is how do you harden that and protect that with, um, security and resilience? So I'll probably say those are the three areas. John, >>You know, the business model side, obviously the enablement is what Amazon has. Um, we see things like SAS factory coming on board and the partner network, obviously a century is a big, huge partner of you guys. Um, the business models there, you've got I, as, as doing great with chips, you have this data modeling this data opportunity to enable these modern apps. We heard about the partner strategy for me and D um, talking to me now about how can partners within even Accenture, w w what's the business model, um, side on your side that you're enabling this. Can you just share your thoughts on that? >>Yeah, yeah. And so it's, it's interesting. I think I'm going to build it and then build a little bit on some of the things that Andy really talked about there, right? And that we, if you think of that from the partnership, we are absolutely helping our customers with kind of that it modernization piece. And we're investing a lot and there's hard work that needs to get done there. And we're investing a lot as a partnership around the tools, the assets and the methodology. So in AWS and Accenture show up together as AEG, we are executing office single blueprint with a single set of assets, so we can move fast. So we're going to continue to do that with all the hybrid announcements from this past week, those get baked into that, that migration modernization theme, but the other really important piece here as we go up the stack, Andy mentioned it, right? >>The data piece, like so much of what we're talking about here is around data and insights. Right? I did a cube interview last week with, uh, Carl hick. Um, who's the CIO from Takeda. And if you hear Christophe Weber from Takeda talk, he talks about Takeda being a data company, data and insights company. So how do we, as a partnership, again, build the capabilities and the platforms like with Accenture's applied insights platform so that we can bootstrap and really accelerate our client's journey. And then finally, on the innovation on the business front, and Andy was touching on some of these, we are investing in industry solutions and accelerators, right? Because we know that at the end of the day, a lot of these are very similar. We're talking about ingesting data, using machine learning to provide insights and then taking action. So for instance, the cognitive insurance platform that we're working together on with Accenture, if they give out property and casualty claims and think about how do we enable touchless claims using machine learning and computer vision that can assess based on an image damage, and then be able to triage that and process it accordingly, right? >>Using all the latest machine learning capabilities from AWS with that deep, um, AI machine learning data science capability from Accenture, who knows all those algorithms that need to get built and build that library by doing that, we can really help these insurance companies accelerate their transformation around how they think about claims and how they can speed those claims on behalf of their policy holder. So that's an example of a, kind of like a bottom to top, uh, view of what we're doing in the partnership to address these new needs. >>That's awesome. Andy, I want to get back to your point about culture. You mentioned it twice now. Um, talent is a big part of the game here. Andy Jassy referenced Lambda. The next generation developers were using Lambda. He talked about CIO stories around, they didn't move fast enough. They lost three years. A new person came in and made it go faster. This is a new, this is a time for a certain kind of, um, uh, professional and individual, um, to, to be part of, um, this next generation. What's the talent strategy you guys have to attract and attain the best and retain the people. How do you do it? >>Um, you know, it's, it's, um, it's an interesting one. It's, it's, it's oftentimes a, it's, it's a significant point and often overlooked. Um, you know, people, people really matter and getting the right people, um, in not just in AWS or it, but then in our customers is super important. We often find that much of our discussions with, with our clients is centered around that. And it's really a key ingredient. As you touched on, you need people who are willing to embrace change, but also people who are willing to create new, um, to invent new, to reinvent, um, and to, to keep it very simple. Um, w we're we're we're seeing increasingly that you need people that have a sort of deep learning and a deep, uh, or deep desire to keep learning and to be very curious as, as they go along. Most of all, though, I find that, um, having people who are not willing or not afraid to fail is critical, absolutely critical. Um, and I think that that's, that's, uh, a necessary ingredient that we're seeing, um, our clients needing more off, um, because if you can't start and, and, and you can't iterate, um, you know, for fear of failure, you're in trouble. And, and I think Andy touched on that you, you know, where that CIO, that you referred to last three years, um, and so you really do need people who are willing to start not afraid to start, uh, and, uh, and not afraid to lead >>Was a gut check there. I just say, you guys have a great team over there. Everyone at the center I've interviewed strong, talented, and not afraid to lean in and, and into the trends. Um, I got to ask on that front cloud first was something that was a big strategic focus for Accenture. How does that fit into your business group? That's an Amazon focused, obviously they're cloud, and now hybrid everywhere, as I say, um, how does that all work it out? >>We're super excited about our cloud first initiative, and I think it fits it, um, really, uh, perfectly it's it's, it's what we needed. It's, it's, it's a, it's another accelerant. Um, if you think of count first, what we're doing is we're, we're putting together, um, uh, you know, capability set that will help enable him to and transformations as Brian touched on, you know, help companies move from just, you know, migrating to, to, to modernizing, to driving insights, to bringing in change, um, and, and, and helping on that, on that talent side. So that's sort of component number one is how does Accenture bring the best, uh, end to end transformation capabilities to our clients? Number two is perhaps, you know, how do we, um, uh, bring together pre-assembled as Brian touched on pre-assembled industry offerings to help as an accelerant, uh, for our, for our customers three years, as we touched on earlier is, is that sort of partnership with the ecosystem. >>We're going to see an increasing number of SAS providers in an estate, in the enterprise of snakes out there. And so, you know, panto wild cloud first, and our ABG strategy is to increase our touch points in our integrations and our solutions and our offerings with the ecosystem partners out there, the ISP partners out, then the SAS providers out there. And then number four is really about, you know, how do we, um, extend the definition of the cloud? I think oftentimes people thought of the cloud just as sort of on-prem and prem. Um, but, but as Andy touched on earlier this week, you know, you've, you've got this concept of hybrid cloud and that in itself, um, uh, is, is, is, you know, being redefined as well. You know, when you've got the intelligent edge and you've got various forms of the edge. Um, so that's the fourth part of, of, uh, of occupied for strategy. And for us was super excited because all of that is highly relevant for ABG, as we look to build those capabilities as industry solutions and others, and as when to enable our customers, but also how we, you know, as we, as we look to extend how we go to market, I'll join tele PS, uh, in, uh, in our respective skews and products. >>Well, what's clear now is that people now realize that if you contain that complexity, the upside is massive. And that's great opportunity for you guys. We got to get to the final question for you guys to weigh in on, as we wrap up next five years, Brian, Andy weigh in, how do you see that playing out? What do you see this exciting, um, for the partnership and the cloud first cloud, everywhere cloud opportunities share some perspective. >>Yeah, I, I think, you know, just kinda building on that cloud first, right? What cloud first, and we were super excited when cloud first was announced and you know, what it signals to the market and what we're seeing in our customers, which has cloud really permeates everything that we're doing now. Um, and so all aspects of the business will get infused with cloud in some ways, you know, it, it touches on, on all pieces. And I think what we're going to see is just a continued acceleration and getting much more efficient about pulling together the disparate, what had been disparate pieces of these transformations, and then using automation using machine learning to go faster. Right? And so, as we started thinking about the stack, right, well, we're going to get, I know we are, as a partnership is we're already investing there and getting better and more efficient every day as the migration pieces and the moving the assets to the cloud are just going to continue to get more automated, more efficient. And those will become the economic engines that allow us to fund the differentiated, innovative activities up the stack. So I'm excited to see us kind of invest to make those, those, um, those bets accelerated for customers so that we can free up capital and resources to invest where it's going to drive the most outcome for their end customers. And I think that's going to be a big focus and that's going to have the industry, um, you know, focus. It's going to be making sure that we can >>Consume the latest and greatest of AWS as capabilities and, you know, in the areas of machine learning and analytics, but then Andy's also touched on it bringing in ecosystem partners, right? I mean, one of the most exciting wins we had this year, and this year of COVID is looking at the universe, looking at Massachusetts, the COVID track and trace solution that we put in place is a partnership between Accenture, AWS, and Salesforce, right? So again, bringing together three really leading partners who can deliver value for our customers. I think we're going to see a lot more of that as customers look to partnerships like this, to help them figure out how to bring together the best of the ecosystem to drive solutions. So I think we're going to see more of that as well. >>All right, Andy final word, your take >>Thinks of innovation is, is picking up, um, dismiss things are just going faster and faster. I'm just super excited and looking forward to the next five years as, as you know, the technology invention, um, comes out and continues to sort of set new standards from AWS. Um, and as we, as Accenture wringing, our industry capabilities, we marry the two. We, we go and help our customers super exciting time. >>Well, congratulations on the partnership. I want to say thank you to you guys, because I've reported a few times some stories around real successes around this COVID pandemic that you guys worked together on with Amazon that really changed people's lives. Uh, so congratulations on that too as well. I want to call that out. Thanks for coming >>Up. Thank you. Thanks for coming on. >>Okay. This is the cubes coverage, essentially. AWS partnership, part of a century executive summit at Atrius reinvent 2020 I'm John for your host. Thanks. >>You're watching from around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Hello, and welcome back to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. This is special programming for the century executive summit, where all the thought leaders going to extract the signal from the nose to share with you their perspective of this year's reinvent conference, as it respects the customers' digital transformation. Brian Bohan is the director and head of a center. ADA was business group at Amazon web services. Brian, great to see you. And Chris Wegman is the, uh, center, uh, Amazon business group technology lead at Accenture. Um, guys, this is about technology vision, this, this conversation, um, Chris, I want to start with you because you, Andy Jackson's keynote, you heard about the strategy of digital transformation, how you gotta lean into it. You gotta have the guts to go for it, and you got to decompose. He went everywhere. So what, what did you hear? What was striking about the keynote? Because he covered a lot of topics. Yeah. You know, it >>Was Epic, uh, as always for Mandy, a lot of topics, a lot to cover in the three hours. Uh, there was a couple of things that stood out for me, first of all, hybrid, uh, the concept, the new concept of hybrid and how Andy talked about it, you know, uh, bringing the compute and the power to all parts of the enterprise, uh, whether it be at the edge or are in the big public cloud, uh, whether it be in an outpost or wherever it might be right with containerization now, uh, you know, being able to do, uh, Amazon containerization in my data center and that that's, that's awesome. I think that's gonna make a big difference, all that being underneath the Amazon, uh, console and billing and things like that, which is great. Uh, I'll also say the, the chips, right. And I know compute is always something that, you know, we always kind of take for granted, but I think again, this year, uh, Amazon and Andy really focused on what they're doing with the chips and PR and compute, and the compute is still at the heart of everything in cloud. And that continued advancement is, is making an impact and will make a continue to make a big impact. >>Yeah, I would agree. I think one of the things that really, I mean, the container thing was, I think really kind of a nuanced point when you got Deepak sing on the opening day with Andy Jassy and he's, he runs a container group over there, you know, small little team he's on the front and front stage. That really is the key to the hybrid. And I think this showcases this new layer and taking advantage of the graviton two chips that, which I thought was huge. Brian, this is really a key part of the platform change, not change, but the continuation of AWS higher level servers building blocks that provide more capabilities, heavy lifting as they say, but the new services that are coming on top really speaks to hybrid and speaks to the edge. >>It does. Yeah. And it, it, you know, I think like Andy talks about, and we talk about, I, you know, we really want to provide choice to our customers, uh, first and foremost, and you can see that and they re uh, services. We have, we can see it in the, the hybrid options that Chris talked about, being able to run your containers through ECS or EKS anywhere I just get to the customer's choice. And one of the things that I'm excited about as you talk about going up the stack and on the edge are things will certainly outpost. Um, right. So now I'll post those launched last year, but then with the new form factors, uh, and then you look at services like Panorama, right? Being able to take computer vision and embed machine learning and computer vision, and do that as a managed capability at the edge, um, for customers. >>And so we see this across a number of industries. And so what we're really thinking about is customers no longer have to make trade-offs and have to think about those, those choices that they can really deploy, uh, natively in the cloud. And then they can take those capabilities, train those models, and then deploy them where they need to, whether that's on premises or at the edge, you know, whether it be in a factory or retail environment. When we start, I think we're really well positioned when, um, you know, hopefully next year we started seeing the travel industry rebound, um, and the, the need, you know, more than ever really to, uh, to kind of rethink about how we kind of monitor and make those environments safe. Having this kind of capability at the edge is really going to help our customers as, as we come out of this year and hopefully rebound next year. >>Yeah. Chris, I want to go back to you for a second. It's hard to hard to pick your favorite innovation from the keynote, because, you know, just reminded me that Brian just reminded me of some things I forgot happened. It was like a buffet of innovation. Some keynotes have one or two, it was like 20, you got the industrial piece that was huge. Computer vision machine learning. That's just a game changer. The connect thing came out of nowhere, in my opinion, I mean, it's a call center technology. This is boring as hell. What are you gonna do with that? It turns out it's a game changer. It's not about the calls with the contact and that's discern intermediating, um, in the stack as well. So again, a feature that looks old is actually new and relevant. What's your, what was your favorite, um, innovation? >>Uh, it it's, it's, it's hard to say. I will say my personal favorite was the, the maca last. I, I just, I think that is a phenomenal, um, uh, just addition, right? And the fact that AWS is, has worked with Apple to integrate the Nitra chip into, into, uh, you know, the iMac and offer that out. Um, you know, a lot of people are doing development, uh, on for ILS and that stuff. And that there's just gonna be a huge benefit, uh, for the development teams. But, you know, I will say, I'll come back to connect you. You mentioned it. Um, you know, but you're right. It was a, it's a boring area, but it's an area that we've seen huge success with since, since connect was launched and the additional features and the Amazon continues to bring, you know, um, obviously with, with the pandemic and now that, you know, customer engagement through the phone, uh, through omni-channel has just been critical for companies, right. >>And to be able to have those agents at home, working from home versus being in the office, it was a huge, huge advantage for, for several customers that are using connect. You know, we, we did some great stuff with some different customers, but the continue technology, like you said, the, you know, the call translation and during a call to be able to pop up those key words and have a, have a supervisor, listen is awesome. And a lot of that was some of that was already being done, but we were stitching multiple services together. Now that's right out of the box. Um, and that Google's location is only going to make that go faster and make us to be able to innovate faster for that piece of the business. >>It's interesting, you know, not to get all nerdy and, and business school life, but you've got systems of records, systems of engagement. If you look at the call center and the connect thing, what got my attention was not only the model of disintermediating, that part of the engagement in the stack, but what actually cloud does to something that's a feature or something that could be an element, like say, call center, you old days of, you know, calling an 800 number, getting some support you got in chip, you have machine learning, you actually have stuff in the, in the stack that actually makes that different now. So you w you know, the thing that impressed me was Andy was saying, you could have machine learning, detect pauses, voice inflections. So now you have technology making that more relevant and better and different. So a lot going on, this is just one example of many things that are happening from a disruption innovation standpoint. W what do you guys, what do you guys think about that? And is that like getting it right? Can you share it? >>I think, I think, I think you are right. And I think what's implied there and what you're saying, and even in the, you know, the macro S example is the ability if we're talking about features, right. Which by themselves, you're saying, Oh, wow, what's, what's so unique about that, but because it's on AWS and now, because whether you're a developer working on, you know, w with Mac iOS and you have access to the 175 plus services, that you can then weave into your new applications, talk about the connect scenario. Now we're embedding that kind of inference and machine learning to do what you say, but then your data Lake is also most likely running in AWS, right? And then the other channels, whether they be mobile channels or web channels, or in store physical channels, that data can be captured in that same machine learning could be applied there to get that full picture across the spectrum. Right? So that's the, that's the power of bringing together on AWS to access to all those different capabilities of services, and then also the where the data is, and pulling all that together, that for that end to end view, okay, >>You guys give some examples of work you've done together. I know this stuff we've reported on. Um, in the last session we talked about some of the connect stuff, but that kind of encapsulates where this, where this is all going with respect to the tech. >>Yeah. I think one of the, you know, it was called out on Doug's partner summit was, you know, is there a, uh, an SAP data Lake accelerator, right? Almost every enterprise has SAP, right. And SAP getting data out of SAP has always been a challenge, right. Um, whether it be through, you know, data warehouses and AWS, sorry, SAP BW, you know, what we've focused on is, is getting that data when you're on have SAP on AWS getting that data into the data Lake, right. And getting it into, into a model that you can pull the value out of the customers can pull the value out, use those AI models. Um, so that was one thing we worked on in the last 12 months, super excited about seeing great success with customers. Um, you know, a lot of customers had ideas. They want to do this. They had different models. What we've done is, is made it very, uh, simplified, uh, framework that allows customers to do it very quickly, get the data out there and start getting value out of it and iterating on that data. Um, we saw customers are spending way too much time trying to stitch it all together and trying to get it to work technically. Uh, and we've now cut all that out and they can immediately start getting down to, to the data and taking advantage of those, those different, um, services are out there by AWS. >>Brian, you want to weigh in as things you see as relevant, um, builds that you guys done together that kind of tease out the future and connect the dots to what's coming. >>Uh, I, you know, I'm going to use a customer example. Uh, we worked with, um, and it just came out with, with Unilever around their blue air connected, smart air purifier. And what I think is interesting about that, I think it touches on some of the themes we're talking about, as well as some of the themes we talked about in the last session, which is we started that program before the pandemic. Um, and, but, you know, Unilever recognized that they needed to differentiate their product in the marketplace, move to more of a services oriented business, which we're seeing as a trend. We, uh, we enabled this capability. So now it's a smart air purifier that can be remote manage. And now in the pandemic head, they are in a really good position, obviously with a very relevant product and capability, um, to be used. And so that data then, as we were talking about is going to reside on the cloud. And so the learning that can now happen about usage and about, you know, filter changes, et cetera, can find its way back into future iterations of that valve, that product. And I think that's, that's keeping with, you know, uh, Chris was talking about where we might be systems of record, like in SAP, how do we bring those in and then start learning from that data so that we can get better on our future iterations? >>Hey, Chris, on the last segment we did on the business mission, um, session, Andy Taylor from your team, uh, talked about partnerships within a century and working with other folks. I want to take that now on the technical side, because one of the things that we heard from, um, Doug's, um, keynote and that during the partner day was integrations and data were two big themes. When you're in the cloud, technically the integrations are different. You're going to get unique things in the public cloud that you're just not going to get on premise access to other cloud native technologies and companies. How has that, how do you see the partnering of Accenture with people within your ecosystem and how the data and the integration play together? What's your vision? >>Yeah, I think there's two parts of it. You know, one there's from a commercial standpoint, right? So marketplace, you know, you, you heard Dave talk about that in the, in the partner summit, right? That marketplace is now bringing together this ecosystem, uh, in a very easy way to consume by the customers, uh, and by the users and bringing multiple partners together. And we're working with our ecosystem to put more products out in the marketplace that are integrated together, uh, already. Um, you know, I think one from a technical perspective though, you know, if you look at Salesforce, you know, we talked a little earlier about connect another good example, technically underneath the covers, how we've integrated connect and Salesforce, some of it being prebuilt by AWS and Salesforce, other things that we've added on top of it, um, I think are good examples. And I think as these ecosystems, these IFCs put their products out there and start exposing more and more API APIs, uh, on the Amazon platform, make opening it up, having those, those prebuilt network connections there between, you know, the different VPCs and the different areas within, within a customer's network. >>Um, and having them, having that all opened up and connected and having all that networking done underneath the covers. You know, it's one thing to call the API APIs. It's one thing to have access to those. And that's been a big focus of a lot of, you know, ISBNs and customers to build those API APIs and expose them, but having that network infrastructure and being able to stay within the cloud within AWS to make those connections, the past that data, we always talk about scale, right? It's one thing if I just need to pass like a, you know, a simple user ID back and forth, right? That's, that's fine. We're not talking massive data sets, whether it be seismic data or whatever it be passing those of those large, those large data sets between customers across the Amazon network is going to, is going to open up the world. >>Yeah. I see huge possibilities there and love to keep on this story. I think it's going to be important and something to keep track of. I'm sure you guys will be on top of it. You know, one of the things I want to, um, dig into with you guys now is Andy had kind of this philosophy philosophical thing in his keynote, talk about societal change and how tough the pandemic is. Everything's on full display. Um, and this kind of brings out kind of like where we are and the truth. You look at the truth, it's a virtual event. I mean, it's a website and you got some sessions out there with doing remote best weekend. Um, and you've got software and you've got technology and, you know, the concept of a mechanism it's software, it does something, it does a purpose. Essentially. You guys have a concept called living systems where growth strategy powered by technology. How do you take the concept of a, of a living organism or a system and replace the mechanism, staleness of computing and software. And this is kind of an interesting, because we're on the cusp of a, of a major inflection point post COVID. I get the digital transformation being slow that's yes, that's happening. There's other things going on in society. What do you guys think about this living systems concept? >>Yeah, so I, you know, I'll start, but, you know, I think the living system concept, um, you know, it started out very much thinking about how do you rapidly change the system, right? And, and because of cloud, because of, of dev ops, because of, you know, all these software technologies and processes that we've created, you know, that's where it started it, making it much easier to make it a much faster being able to change rapidly, but you're right. I think as you now bring in more technologies, the AI technology self-healing technologies, again, you're hurting Indian in his keynote, talk about, you know, the, the systems and services they're building to the tech problems and, and, and, and give, uh, resolve those problems. Right. Obviously automation is a big part of that living systems, you know, being able to bring that all together and to be able to react in real time to either what a customer, you know, asks, um, you know, either through the AI models that have been generated and turning those AI models around much faster, um, and being able to get all the information that came came in in the last 20 minutes, right. >>You know, society's moving fast and changing fast. And, you know, even in one part of the world, if, um, something, you know, in 10 minutes can change and being able to have systems to react to that, learn from that and be able to pass that on to the next country, especially in this world with COVID and, you know, things changing very quickly with quickly and, and, and, um, diagnosis and, and, um, medical response, all that so quickly to be able to react to that and have systems pass that information learned from that information is going to be critical. >>That's awesome. Brian, one of the things that comes up every year is, Oh, the cloud scalable this year. I think, you know, we've, we've talked on the cube before, uh, years ago, certainly with the censure and Amazon, I think it was like three or four years ago. Yeah. The clouds horizontally scalable, but vertically specialized at the application layer. But if you look at the data Lake stuff that you guys have been doing, where you have machine learning, the data's horizontally scalable, and then you got the specialization in the app changes that changes the whole vertical thing. Like you don't need to have a whole vertical solution or do you, so how has this year's um, cloud news impacted vertical industries because it used to be, Oh, the oil and gas financial services. They've got a team for that. We've got a stack for that. Not anymore. Is it going away? What's changing. Wow. >>I, you know, I think it's a really good question. And I don't think, I think what we're saying, and I was just on a call this morning talking about banking and capital markets. And I do think the, you know, the, the challenges are still pretty sector specific. Um, but what we do see is the, the kind of commonality, when we start looking at the, and we talked about it as the industry solutions that we're building as a partnership, most of them follow the pattern of ingesting data, analyzing that data, and then being able to, uh, provide insights and an actions. Right. So if you think about creating that yeah. That kind of common chassis of that ingest the data Lake and then the machine learning, can you talk about, you know, the announces around SageMaker and being able to manage these models, what changes then really are the very specific industries algorithms that you're, you're, you're writing right within that framework. And so we're doing a lot in connect is a good example of this too, where you look at it. Yeah. Customer service is a horizontal capability that we're building out, but then when you stop it into insurance or retail banking or utilities, there are nuances then that we then extend and build so that we meet the unique needs of those, those industries. And that's usually around those, those models. >>Yeah. And I think this year was the first reinvented. I saw real products coming out that actually solve that problem. And that was their last year SageMaker was kinda moving up the stack, but now you have apps embedding machine learning directly in, and users don't even know it's in there. I mean, Christmas is kind of where it's going. Right. I mean, >>Yeah. Announcements. Right. How many, how many announcements where machine learning is just embedded in? I mean, so, you know, code guru, uh, dev ops guru Panorama, we talked about, it's just, it's just there. >>Yeah. I mean, having that knowledge about the linguistics and the metadata, knowing the, the business logic, those are important specific use cases for the vertical and you can get to it faster. Right. Chris, how is this changing on the tech side, your perspective? Yeah. >>You know, I keep coming back to, you know, AWS and cloud makes it easier, right? None of this stuff, you know, all of this stuff can be done, uh, and has some of it has been, but you know, what Amazon continues to do is make it easier to consume by the developer, by the, by the customer and to actually embedded into applications much easier than it would be if I had to go set up the stack and build it all on that and, and, and, uh, embed it. Right. So it's, shortcutting that process. And again, as these products continue to mature, right. And some of the stuff is embedded, um, it makes that process so much faster. Uh, it makes it reduces the amount of work required by the developers, uh, the engineers to get there. So I I'm expecting, you're going to see more of this. >>Right. I think you're going to see more and more of these multi connected services by AWS that has a lot of the AIML, um, pre-configured data lakes, all that kind of stuff embedded in those services. So you don't have to do it yourself and continue to go up the stack. And we was talking about, Amazon's built for builders, right. But, you know, builders, you know, um, have been super specialized in, or we're becoming, you know, as engineers, we're being asked to be bigger and bigger and to be, you know, uh, be able to do more stuff. And I think, you know, these kinds of integrated services are gonna help us do that >>And certainly needed more. Now, when you have hybrid edge that are going to be operating with microservices on a cloud model, and with all those advantages that are going to come around the corner for being in the cloud, I mean, there's going to be, I think there's going to be a whole clarity around benefits in the cloud with all these capabilities and benefits cloud guru. Thanks my favorite this year, because it just points to why that could happen. I mean, that happens because of the cloud data. If you're on premise, you may not have a little cloud guru, you got to got to get more data. So, but they're all different edge certainly will come into your vision on the edge. Chris, how do you see that evolving for customers? Because that could be complex new stuff. How is it going to get easier? >>Yeah. It's super complex now, right? I mean, you gotta design for, you know, all the different, uh, edge 5g, uh, protocols are out there and, and, and solutions. Right. You know, Amazon's simplifying that again, to come back to simplification. Right. I can, I can build an app that, that works on any 5g network that's been integrated with AWS. Right. I don't have to set up all the different layers to get back to my cloud or back to my, my bigger data side. And I was kind of choking. I don't even know where to call the cloud anymore, big cloud, which is a central and I go down and then I've got a cloud at the edge. Right. So what do I call that? >>Exactly. So, you know, again, I think it is this next generation of technology with the edge comes, right. And we put more and more data at the edge. We're asking for more and more compute at the edge, right? Whether it be industrial or, you know, for personal use or consumer use, um, you know, that processing is gonna get more and more intense, uh, to be able to manage and under a single console, under a single platform and be able to move the code that I develop across that entire platform, whether I have to go all the way down to the, you know, to the very edge, uh, at the, at the 5g level, right? Or all the way into the bigger cloud and how that process, isn't there be able to do that. Seamlessly is going to be allow the speed of development that's needed. >>Well, you guys done a great job and no better time to be a techie or interested in technology or computer science or social science for that matter. This is a really perfect storm, a lot of problems to solve a lot of things, a lot of change happening, positive change opportunities, a lot of great stuff. Uh, final question guys, five years working together now on this partnership with AWS and Accenture, um, congratulations, you guys are in pole position for the next wave coming. Um, what's exciting. You guys, Chris, what's on your mind, Brian. What's, what's getting you guys pumped up >>Again. I come back to G you know, Andy mentioned it in his keynote, right? We're seeing customers move now, right. We're seeing, you know, five years ago we knew customers were going to get a new, this. We built a partnership to enable these enterprise customers to make that, that journey. Right. But now, you know, even more, we're seeing them move at such great speed. Right. Which is super excites me. Right. Because I can see, you know, being in this for a long time, now I can see the value on the other end. And I really, we've been wanting to push our customers as fast as they can through the journey. And now they're moving out of, they're getting, they're getting the religion, they're getting there. They see, they need to do it to change your business. So that's what excites me is just the excites me. >>It's just the speed at which we're, we're in a single movement. Yeah, yeah. I'd agree with, yeah, I'd agree with that. I mean, so, you know, obviously getting, getting customers to the cloud is super important work, and we're obviously doing that and helping accelerate that, it's it, it's what we've been talking about when we're there, all the possibilities that become available right. Through the common data capabilities, the access to the 175 some-odd AWS services. And I also think, and this is, this is kind of permeated through this week at re-invent is the opportunity, especially in those industries that do have an industrial aspect, a manufacturing aspect, or a really strong physical aspect of bringing together it and operational technology and the business with all these capabilities, then I think edge and pushing machine learning down to the edge and analytics at the edge is really going to help us do that. And so I'm super excited by all that possibility is I feel like we're just scratching the surface there, >>Great time to be building out. And you know, this is the time for re reconstruction. Re-invention big themes. So many storylines in the keynote, in the events. It's going to keep us busy here. It's looking at angle in the cube for the next year. Gentlemen, thank you for coming out. I really appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you. All right. Great conversation. You're getting technical. We could've go on another 30 minutes. Lot to talk about a lot of storylines here at AWS. Reinvent 2020 at the Centure executive summit. I'm John furrier. Thanks for watching.

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome everyone to the cube virtual and our coverage of the Accenture executive summit, which is part of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. Today, we are talking about the green cloud and joining me is Kishor Dirk. He is Accenture senior managing director cloud first global services lead. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Kishor nice to meet you. Great to have you. So I want to start by asking you what it is that we mean when we say green cloud, we know this sustainability is a business imperative. So many organizations around the world are committing to responsible innovation, lowering carbon emissions. But what is this? What does it, what does it mean when they talk about cloud from a sustainability perspective? >>I think it's about responsible innovation. Green cloud is a thoughtful cloud-first approach that helps boost your profits and benefit the clients by helping reduce carbon emissions. Think about it this way. You have a large number of data centers, and each of these data centers are increasing by 14% every year. And this double digit growth comes with the price of Becca. What we are seeing is these data centers consume a lot of power and the consumption is nearly coolant to the consumption of a country like Spain. So the magnitude of the problem that is out there and how do we pursue a green approach? Uh, if you look at this, our Accenture analysis, in terms of the migrations to public cloud, we have seen that, uh, we can reduce that by 59 million tons of CO2 per year. And, uh, with just a 5.9% reduction in total it emissions and equates this to, uh, 22 million cars of the road. And the magnitude of reduction can go a long way in meeting climate change commitments, particularly for data sensitive businesses. >>Wow. That's incredible what your, the numbers that you're putting forward are absolutely mind blowing. So how does it work? Is it a simple cloud migration? >>So, you know, when companies begin that cloud journey and then they confront, uh, with them a lot of questions, the decision to make, uh, this particular, uh, element sustainable in the solution and benefits they drive and they have to make wise choices, and then they will gain unprecedented level of innovation leading to both a greener planet, as well as, uh, a greater balance sheet, I would say, uh, so effectively it's all about ambition data, the ambition, greater the reduction in carbon emissions. So from a cloud migration perspective, we look at it as a, as a simple solution with approaches and sustainability benefits, uh, that vary based on things it's about selecting the right cloud provider, very carbon thoughtful provider, and the first step towards a sustainable cloud journey. And here we're looking at cloud operators, obviously they have different corporate commitments towards sustainability, and that determines how they plan, how they build, uh, their, uh, the data centers, how they are consumed and assumptions that operate there and how they, how they retire their data centers. >>Then, uh, the next element that you want to do is how do you build your ambition, you know, for some of the companies, uh, and average on-prem, uh, drives about 65% energy reduction and the carbon emissions reduction number was 84%, which is kind of okay. And good, I would say, but then if you could go up to 98% by configuring applications to the cloud, that is significant benefit for, for the world. And obviously it's a greener cloud that we're talking about. And then the question is, how far can you go? And, uh, you know, the, obviously the companies have to unlock greater financial societal environmental benefits, and Accenture has this cloud-based circular operations and sustainable products and services that we bring into play. So it's a, it's a very thoughtful, broader approach that w bringing in, in terms of, uh, just a simple concept of cloud migration, >>We know that in the COVID era, shifting to the cloud has really become a business imperative. How is Accenture working with its clients at a time when all of this movement has been accelerated? How do you partner and what is your approach in terms of helping them with their migrations? >>Yeah, I mean, let, let me talk a little bit about the pandemic and the crisis that is there today. And if you really look at that in terms of how we partnered with a lot of our clients in terms of the cloud first approach, I'll give you a couple of examples. We worked with rolls, Royce, McLaren, DHL, and others, as part of the ventilator challenge consortium, again, to, uh, coordinate production of medical ventilator surgeons we needed for the UK health service. Many of these farms I've taken similar initiatives in, in terms of, uh, you know, from, uh, a few manufacturers hand sanitizers, and to answer it as is, and again, leading passionate labels, making PPE, and again, at the UN general assembly, we launched the end-to-end integration guide that helps company essentially to have a sustainable development goals. And that's how we are parking at a very large scale. >>Uh, and, and if you really look at how we work with our clients and what is the Accenture's role there, uh, you know, from, in terms of our clients, you know, there are multiple steps that we look at. One is about, uh, planning, building, deploying, and managing an optimal green cloud solution. And Accenture has this concept of, uh, helping clients with a platform to kind of achieve that goal. And here we are having, we are having a platform or a mine app, which has a module called beat advisor. And this is a capability that helps you provide optimal green cloud, uh, you know, a business case, and obviously a blueprint for each of our clients. And right, the start in terms of how do we complete cloud migration recommendation to an improved solution, accurate accuracy to obviously bringing in the end to end perspective, uh, you know, with this green card advisor capability, we're helping our clients capture what we call as a carbon footprint for existing data centers and provide, uh, I would say the current cloud CO2 emission score that, you know, obviously helps them, uh, with carbon credits that can further that green agenda. >>So essentially this is about recommending a green index score, reducing carbon footprint for migration migrating for green cloud. And if we look at how Accenture itself is practicing what we preach, 95% of our applications are in the cloud. And this migration has helped us, uh, to lead to about $40.5 million in benefit. And in the third year and another 3 million in analytics costs that are saved through right-sizing, uh, service consumption. So it's a very broad umbrella and footprint in terms of how we engage societaly with the UN or our clients. And, and what is it that we exactly bring to our clients in solving a specific problem? >>Accenture isn't is walking the walk, as you say >>Yes. So that instead of it, we practice what we preach, and that is something that we take it to heart. We want to have a responsible business and we want to practice it. And we want to advise our clients around that >>You are your own use case. And so they can, they know they can take your advice. So talk a little bit about, um, the global, the cooperation that's needed. We know that conquering this pandemic is going to take a coordinated global effort and talk a little bit about the great reset initiative. First of all, what is that? Why don't we, why don't we start there and then we can delve into it a little bit more. >>Okay. So before we get to how we are cooperating, the great reset, uh, initiative is about improving the state of the world. And it's about a group of global stakeholders cooperating to simultaneously manage the direct consequences of their COVID-19 crisis. Uh, and in spirit of this cooperation that we're seeing during COVID-19, which will obviously either to post pandemic, to tackle the world's pressing issues. As I say, uh, we are increasing companies to realize a combined potential of technology and sustainable impact to use enterprise solutions, to address with urgency and scale, and, um, obviously, uh, multiple challenges that are facing our world. One of the ways that you're increasing, uh, companies to reach their readiness cloud with Accenture's cloud strategy is to build a solid foundation that is resilient and will be able to faster, uh, to the current, as well as future times. Now, when you think of cloud as the foundation, uh, that drives the digital transformation, it's about scale speed, streamlining your operations, and obviously reducing costs. >>And as these businesses sees the construct of cloud first, they must remain obviously responsible and trusted. Now think about this site as part of our analysis, uh, that profitability can co-exist with responsible and sustainable practices. Let's say that all the data centers, uh, migrated from on-prem to cloud based, we estimate that would reduce carbon emissions globally by 60 million tons per year. Uh, and think about it this way, right? Easier metric would be taking out 22 million cars off the road. Um, the other examples that you've seen, right, in terms of the NHS work that they're doing, uh, in, in UK to beg, uh, you know, uh, Microsoft teams in based integration. And, uh, the platform rolled out for 1.2 million in interest users, uh, and got 16,000 users that we were able to secure instant messages, uh, you know, obviously complete audio video calls and host virtual meetings across India. So, uh, this, this work that we did with NHS is, is something that we have, we're collaborating with a lot of tools and powering businesses. >>Well, you're vividly describing the business case for sustainability. What do you see as the future of cloud when thinking about it from this lens of sustainability, and also going back to what you were talking about in terms of how you are helping your, your fostering cooperation within these organizations? >>Yeah, that's a very good question. So if you look at today, right, businesses are obviously environmentally aware and they are expanding efforts to decrease power consumption, carbon emissions, and they want it on a sustainable operational efficiency across all elements of their business. And this is an increasing trend, and there is that option of energy efficient infrastructure in the global market. And this trend is the cloud thinking. And with the right cloud migration that we've been discussing is about unlocking new opportunity, like clean energy foundations, uh, enable enabled by cloud-based geographic analysis, material, waste reductions, and better data insights. And this is something that, uh, uh, we'll drive, uh, with obviously faster analytics platform that is out there. Now, the sustainability is actually the future of business, which is companies that are historically during the financial security or agility benefits to cloud. Now, sustainability becomes an imperative for them and our own experience Accenture's experience with cloud migrations. We have seen 30 to 40% total cost of ownership savings, and it's driving a greater workload, flexibility, better service and obviously more energy efficient, uh, public clouds, uh, costs. Uh, we'll see that, that drive a lot of these enterprise own data centers. So in our view, what we are seeing is that this, this, uh, sustainable cloud position helps, uh, helps companies to, uh, drive a lot of the goals in addition to their financial and other goods. >>So what should organizations who are, who are watching this interview and saying, Hey, I need to know more, what, what do you recommend to them? And what, where should they go to get more information on green cloud, >>A business leader? And you're thinking about which cloud provider is good, or how, how should applications be modernized to meet our day-to-day needs, which cloud driven innovations should be priorities. Uh, you know, that's why Accenture, uh, farmed, uh, the cloud first organization and essentially to provide the full stack of cloud services to help our clients become a cloud first business. Um, you know, it's all about accelerating the digital transformation, innovating faster, creating differentiated, uh, and sustainable value for our clients. And we're powering it up at 70,000 cloud professionals, $3 billion investment, and, uh, bringing together on my step, then the cloud services for our clients in terms of cloud solutions. And obviously the ecosystem partnership that we have, uh, that we are seeing today, uh, and, and the assets that help our clients realize their goals. Um, and again, to, uh, do reach out to us, uh, we can help them determine obviously, an optimal, sustainable cloud for solution that meets the business needs and being unprecedented levels of innovation. Our experience, uh, will be our advantage. And, uh, now more than ever Rebecca, >>Just closing us out here. Do you have any advice for these companies who are navigating a great deal of uncertainty? We, what, what do you think the next 12 to 24 months? What do you think that should be on the minds of CEOs as they go forth? >>So, as CIO are thinking about rapidly leveraging cloud, migrating to cloud, uh, one of the elements that we want them to be thoughtful about is can they do that with unprecedent level of innovation, but also build a greener planet and a greener balance sheet, if we can achieve this balance and kind of, uh, have a, have a world which is greener, I think the world will win. And we all along with Accenture clients will win. That's what I would say, uh, >>Optimistic outlook. And I will take it. Thank you so much. Kishor for coming on the show >>That was Accenture's >>Kishor Dirk, I'm Rebecca Knight stay tuned for more of the cube virtuals coverage of the Accenture executive summit.

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome to cube three 60 fives coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Part of AWS reinvent. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. Today we are joined by a cube alum, Karthik, Lorraine. He is Accenture senior managing director and lead Accenture cloud. First, welcome back to the show Karthik. >>Thank you. Thanks for having me here. >>Always a pleasure. So I want to talk to you. You are an industry veteran, you've been in Silicon Valley for decades. Um, I want to hear from your perspective what the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic has been, what are you hearing from clients? What are they struggling with? What are their challenges that they're facing day to day? >>I think, um, COVID-19 is being a eye-opener from, you know, various facets, you know, um, first and foremost, it's a, it's a hell, um, situation that everybody's facing, which is not just, uh, highest economic bearings to it. It has enterprise, um, an organization with bedding to it. And most importantly, it's very personal to people, um, because they themselves and their friends, family near and dear ones are going through this challenge, uh, from various different dimension. But putting that aside, when you come to it from an organization enterprise standpoint, it has changed everything well, the behavior of organizations coming together, working in their campuses, working with each other as friends, family, and, uh, um, near and dear colleagues, all of them are operating differently. So that's what big change to get things done in a completely different way, from how they used to get things done. >>Number two, a lot of things that were planned for normal scenarios, like their global supply chain, how they interact with their client customers, how they go innovate with their partners on how that employees contribute to the success of an organization at all changed. And there are no data models that give them a hint of something like this for them to be prepared for this. So we are seeing organizations, um, that have adapted to this reasonably okay, and are, you know, launching to innovate faster in this. And there are organizations that have started with struggling, but are continuing to struggle. And the gap between the leaders and legs are widening. So this is creating opportunities in a different way for the leaders, um, with a lot of pivot their business, but it's also creating significant challenge for the lag guides, uh, as we defined in our future systems research that we did a year ago, uh, and those organizations are struggling further. So the gap is actually widening. >>So you just talked about the widening gap. I've talked about the tremendous uncertainty that so many companies, even the ones who have adapted reasonably well, uh, in this, in this time, talk a little bit about Accenture cloud first and why, why now? >>I think it's a great question. Um, we believe that for many of our clients COVID-19 has turned, uh, cloud from an experimentation aspiration to an origin mandate. What I mean by that is everybody has been doing something on the other end cloud. There's no company that says we don't believe in cloud are, we don't want to do cloud. It was how much they did in cloud. And they were experimenting. They were doing the new things in cloud, but they were operating a lot of their core business outside the cloud or not in the cloud. Those organizations have struggled to operate in this new normal, in a remote fashion, as well as, uh, their ability to pivot to all the changes the pandemic has brought to them. But on the other hand, the organizations that had a solid foundation in cloud were able to collect faster and not actually gone into the stage of innovating faster and driving a new behavior in the market, new behavior within their organization. >>So we are seeing that spend to make is actually fast-forwarded something that we always believed was going to happen. This, uh, uh, moving to cloud over the next decade is fast forward it to happen in the next three to five years. And it's created this moment where it's a once in an era, really replatforming of businesses in the cloud that we are going to see. And we see this moment as a cloud first moment where organizations will use cloud as the, the, the canvas and the foundation with which they're going to reimagine their business after they were born in the cloud. Uh, and this requires a whole new strategy. Uh, and as Accenture, we are getting a lot in cloud, but we thought that this is the moment where we bring all of that, gave him a piece together because we need a strategy for addressing, moving to cloud are embracing cloud in a holistic fashion. And that's what Accenture cloud first brings together a holistic strategy, a team that's 70,000 plus people that's coming together with rich cloud skills, but investing to tie in all the various capabilities of cloud to Delaware, that holistic strategy to our clients. So I want you to >>Delve into a little bit more about what this strategy actually entails. I mean, it's clearly about embracing change and being willing to experiment and having capabilities to innovate. Can you tell us a little bit more about what this strategy entails? >>Yeah. The reason why we say that as a need for strategy is like I said, cloud is not new. There's almost every customer client is doing something with the cloud, but all of them have taken different approaches to cloud and different boundaries to cloud. Some organizations say, I just need to consolidate my multiple data centers to a small data center footprint and move the nest to cloud. Certain other organizations say that well, I'm going to move certain workloads to cloud. Certain other organizations said, well, I'm going to build this Greenfield application or workload in cloud. Certain other said, um, I'm going to use the power of AI ML in the cloud to analyze my data and drive insights. But a cloud first strategy is all of this tied with the corporate strategy of the organization with an industry specific cloud journey to say, if in this current industry, if I were to be reborn in the cloud, would I do it in the exact same passion that I did in the past, which means that the products and services that they offer need to be the matching, how they interact with that customers and partners need to be revisited, how they bird and operate their IP systems need to be the, imagine how they unearthed the data from all of the systems under which they attract need to be liberated so that you could drive insights of cloud. >>First strategy hands is a corporate wide strategy, and it's a C-suite responsibility. It doesn't take the ownership away from the CIO or CIO, but the CIO is, and CDI was felt that it was just their problem and they were to solve it. And everyone as being a customer, now, the center of gravity is elevated to it becoming a C-suite agenda on everybody's agenda, where probably the CDI is the instrument to execute that that's a holistic cloud-first strategy >>And it, and it's a strategy, but the way you're describing it, it sounds like it's also a mindset and an approach, as you were saying, this idea of being reborn in the cloud. So now how do I think about things? How do I communicate? How do I collaborate? How do I get done? What I need to get done. Talk a little bit about how this has changed, the way you support your clients and how Accenture cloud first is changing your approach to cloud services. >>Wonderful. Um, you know, I did not color one very important aspect in my previous question, but that's exactly what you just asked me now, which is to do all of this. I talked about all of the variables, uh, an organization or an enterprise is going to go through, but the good part is they have one constant. And what is that? That is their employees, uh, because you do, the employees are able to embrace this change. If they are able to, uh, change them, says, pivot them says retool and train themselves to be able to operate in this new cloud. First one, the ability to reimagine every function of the business would be happening at speed. And cloud first approach is to do all of this at speed, because innovation is deadly proposed there, do the rate of probability on experimentation. You need to experiment a lot for any kind of experimentation. >>There's a probability of success. Organizations need to have an ability and a mechanism for them to be able to innovate faster for which they need to experiment a lot, the more the experiment and the lower cost at which they experiment is going to help them experiment a lot. And they experiment demic speed, fail fast, succeed more. And hence, they're going to be able to operate this at speed. So the cloud-first mindset is all about speed. I'm helping the clients fast track that innovation journey, and this is going to happen. Like I said, across the enterprise and every function across every department, I'm the agent of this change is going to be the employees or weapon, race, this change through new skills and new grueling and new mindset that they need to adapt to. >>So Karthik what you're describing it, it sounds so exciting. And yet for a pandemic wary workforce, that's been working remotely that may be dealing with uncertainty if for their kid's school and for so many other aspects of their life, it sounds hard. So how are you helping your clients, employees get onboard with this? And because the change management is, is often the hardest part. >>Yeah, I think it's, again, a great question. A bottle has only so much capacity. Something got to come off for something else to go in. That's what you're saying is absolutely right. And that is again, the power of cloud. The reason why cloud is such a fundamental breakthrough technology and capability for us to succeed in this era, because it helps in various forms. What we talked so far is the power of innovation that can create, but cloud can also simplify the life of the employees in an enterprise. There are several activities and tasks that people do in managing that complex infrastructure, complex ID landscape. They used to do certain jobs and activities in a very difficult underground about with cloud has simplified. And democratised a lot of these activities. So that things which had to be done in the past, like managing the complexity of the infrastructure, keeping them up all the time, managing the, um, the obsolescence of the capabilities and technologies and infrastructure, all of that could be offloaded to the cloud. >>So that the time that is available for all of these employees can be used to further innovate. Every organization is going to spend almost the same amount of money, but rather than spending activities, by looking at the rear view mirror on keeping the lights on, they're going to spend more money, more time, more energy, and spend their skills on things that are going to add value to their organization. Because you, every innovation that an enterprise can give to their end customer need not come from that enterprise. The word of platform economy is about democratising innovation. And the power of cloud is to get all of these capabilities from outside the four walls of the enterprise, >>It will add value to the organization, but I would imagine also add value to that employee's life because that employee, the employee will be more engaged in his or her job and therefore bring more excitement and energy into her, his or her day-to-day activities too. >>Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is, this is a normal evolution we would have seen everybody would have seen in their lives, that they keep moving up the value chain of what activities that, uh, gets performed buying by those individuals. And this is, um, you know, no more true than how the United States, uh, as an economy has operated where, um, this is the power of a powerhouse of innovation, where the work that's done inside the country keeps moving up to value chain. And, um, us leverage is the global economy for a lot of things that is required to power the United States and that global economic, uh, phenomenon is very proof for an enterprise as well. There are things that an enterprise needs to do them soon. There are things an employee needs to do themselves. Um, but there are things that they could leverage from the external innovation and the power of innovation that is coming from technologies like cloud. >>So at Accenture, you have long, long, deep Stan, sorry, you have deep and long-standing relationships with many cloud service providers, including AWS. How does the Accenture cloud first strategy, how does it affect your relationships with those providers? >>Yeah, we have great relationships with cloud providers like AWS. And in fact, in the cloud world, it was one of the first, um, capability that we started about years ago, uh, when we started developing these capabilities. But five years ago, we hit a very important milestone where the two organizations came together and said that we are forging a pharma partnership with joint investments to build this partnership. And we named that as a Accenture, AWS business group ABG, uh, where we co-invest and brought skills together and develop solutions. And we will continue to do that. And through that investment, we've also made several acquisitions that you would have seen in the recent times, like, uh, an invoice and gecko that we made acquisitions in in Europe. But now we're taking this to the next level. What we are saying is two cloud first and the $3 billion investment that we are bringing in, uh, through cloud-first. >>We are going to make specific investment to create unique joint solution and landing zones foundation, um, cloud packs with which clients can accelerate their innovation or their journey to cloud first. And one great example is what we are doing with Takeda, uh, billable, pharmaceutical giant, um, between we've signed a five-year partnership. And it was out in the media just a month ago or so, where we are, the two organizations are coming together. We have created a partnership as a power of three partnership, where the three organizations are jointly hoarding hats and taking responsibility for the innovation and the leadership position that Takeda wants to get to with this. We are going to simplify their operating model and organization by providing and flexibility. We're going to provide a lot more insights. Tequila has a 230 year old organization. Imagine the amount of trapped data and intelligence that is there. >>How about bringing all of that together with the power of AWS and Accenture and Takeda to drive more customer insights, um, come up with breakthrough R and D uh, accelerate clinical trials and improve the patient experience using AI ML and edge technologies. So all of these things that we will do through this partnership with joined investment from Accenture cloud first, as well as partner like AWS, so that Takeda can realize their gain. And, uh, their senior actually made a statement that five years from now, every ticket an employee will have an AI assistant. That's going to make that beginner employee move up the value chain on how they contribute and add value to the future of tequila with the AI assistant, making them even more equipped and smarter than what they could be otherwise. >>So, one last question to close this out here. What is your future vision for, for Accenture cloud first? What are we going to be talking about at next year's Accenture executive summit? Yeah, the future >>Is going to be, um, evolving, but the part that is exciting to me, and this is, uh, uh, a fundamental belief that we are entering a new era of industrial revolution from industry first, second, and third industry. The third happened probably 20 years ago with the advent of Silicon and computers and all of that stuff that happened here in the Silicon Valley. I think the fourth industrial revolution is going to be in the cross section of, uh, physical, digital and biological boundaries. And there's a great article, um, in one economic forum that people, uh, your audience can Google and read about it. Uh, but the reason why this is very, very important is we are seeing a disturbing phenomenon that over the last 10 years are seeing a Blackwing of the, um, labor productivity and innovation, which has dropped to about 2.1%. When you see that kind of phenomenon over that longer period of time, there has to be breakthrough innovation that needs to happen to come out of this barrier and get to the next, you know, base camp, as I would call it to further this productivity, um, lack that we are seeing, and that is going to happen in the intersection of the physical, digital and biological boundaries. >>And I think cloud is going to be the connective tissue between all of these three, to be able to provide that where it's the edge, especially is good to come closer to the human lives. It's going to come from cloud. Yeah. Pick totally in your mind, you can think about cloud as central, either in a private cloud, in a data center or in a public cloud, you know, everywhere. But when you think about edge, it's going to be far reaching and coming close to where we live and maybe work and very, um, get entertained and so on and so forth. And there's good to be, uh, intervention in a positive way in the field of medicine, in the field of entertainment, in the field of, um, manufacturing in the field of, um, you know, mobility. When I say mobility, human mobility, people, transportation, and so on and so forth with all of this stuff, cloud is going to be the connective tissue and the vision of cloud first is going to be, uh, you know, blowing through this big change that is going to happen. And the evolution that is going to happen where, you know, the human grace of mankind, um, our person kind of being very gender neutral in today's world. Um, go first needs to be that beacon of, uh, creating the next generation vision for enterprises to take advantage of that kind of an exciting future. And that's why it, Accenture, are we saying that there'll be change as our, as our purpose? >>I genuinely believe that cloud first is going to be in the forefront of that change agenda, both for Accenture as well as for the rest of the work. Excellent. Let there be change, indeed. Thank you so much for joining us Karthik. A pleasure I'm Rebecca nights stay tuned for more of Q3 60 fives coverage of the Accenture executive summit >>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS >>Welcome everyone to the Q virtual and our coverage of the Accenture executive summit, which is part of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. Today, we are talking about the green cloud and joining me is Kishor Dirk. He is Accenture senior managing director cloud first global services lead. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Kishor nice to meet you. So I want to start by asking you what it is that we mean when we say green cloud, we know the sustainability is a business imperative. So many organizations around the world are committing to responsible innovation, lowering carbon emissions. But what is this? What is it? What does it mean when they talk about cloud from a sustainability perspective? I think it's about responsible innovation being cloud is a cloud first approach that has benefit the clients by helping reduce carbon emissions. Think about it this way. >>You have a large number of data centers. Each of these data centers are increasing by 14% every year. And this double digit growth. What you're seeing is these data centers and the consumption is nearly coolant to the kind of them should have a country like Spain. So the magnitude of the problem that is out there and how do we pursue a green approach. If you look at this, our Accenture analysis, in terms of the migration to public cloud, we've seen that we can reduce that by 59 million tons of CO2 per year with just the 5.9% reduction in total emissions and equates this to 22 million cars off the road. And the magnitude of reduction can go a long way in meeting climate change commitments, particularly for data sensitive. Wow, that's incredible. The numbers that you're putting forward are, are absolutely mind blowing. So how does it work? Is it a simple cloud migration? So, you know, when companies begin their cloud journey and then they confront, uh, with >>Them a lot of questions, the decision to make, uh, this particular, uh, element sustainable in the solution and benefits they drive and they have to make wise choices, and then they will gain unprecedented level of innovation leading to both a greener planet, as well as, uh, a greener balance sheet, I would say, uh, so effectively it's all about ambition, data ambition, greater the reduction in carbon emissions. So from a cloud migration perspective, we look at it as a, as a simple solution with approaches and sustainability benefits, uh, that vary based on things it's about selecting the right cloud provider, a very carbon thoughtful provider and the first step towards a sustainable cloud journey. And here we're looking at cloud operators know, obviously they have different corporate commitments towards sustainability, and that determines how they plan, how they build, uh, their, uh, uh, the data centers, how they are consumed and assumptions that operate there and how they, or they retire their data centers. >>Then, uh, the next element that you want to do is how do you build it ambition, you know, for some of the companies, uh, and average on-prem, uh, drives about 65% energy reduction and the carbon emission reduction number was 84%, which is kind of good, I would say. But then if you could go up to 98% by configuring applications to the cloud, that is significant benefit for, uh, for the board. And obviously it's a, a greener cloud that we're talking about. And then the question is, how far can you go? And, uh, you know, the, obviously the companies have to unlock greater financial societal environmental benefits, and Accenture has this cloud based circular operations and sustainable products and services that we bring into play. So it's a, it's a very thoughtful, broader approach that w bringing in, in terms of, uh, just a simple concept of cloud migration. >>So we know that in the COVID era, shifting to the cloud has really become a business imperative. How is Accenture working with its clients at a time when all of this movement has been accelerated? How do you partner and what is your approach in terms of helping them with their migrations? >>Yeah, I mean, let, let me talk a little bit about the pandemic and the crisis that is that today. And if you really look at that in terms of how we partnered with a lot of our clients in terms of the cloud first approach, I'll give you a couple of examples. We worked with rolls, Royce, MacLaren, DHL, and others, as part of the ventilator, a UK challenge consortium, again, to, uh, coordinate production of medical ventilator surgically needed for the UK health service. Many of these farms I've taken similar initiatives in, in terms of, uh, you know, from a few manufacturers hand sanitizers, and to answer it as us and again, leading passionate labels, making PPE, and again, at the UN general assembly, we launched the end-to-end integration guide that helps company is essentially to have a sustainable development goals. And that's how we are parking at a very large scale. >>Uh, and, and if you really look at how we work with our clients and what is Accenture's role there, uh, you know, from, in terms of our clients, you know, there are multiple steps that we look at. One is about planning, building, deploying, and managing an optimal green cloud solution. And Accenture has this concept of, uh, helping clients with a platform to kind of achieve that goal. And here we are having, we are having a platform or a mine app, which has a module called BGR advisor. And this is a capability that helps you provide optimal green cloud, uh, you know, a business case, and obviously a blueprint for each of our clients and right from the start in terms of how do we complete cloud migration recommendation to an improved solution, accurate accuracy to obviously bringing in the end to end perspective, uh, you know, with this green card advisor capability, we're helping our clients capture what we call as a carbon footprint for existing data centers and provide, uh, I would say the current cloud CO2 emission score that, you know, obviously helps them, uh, with carbon credits that can further that green agenda. >>So essentially this is about recommending a green index score, reducing carbon footprint for migration migrating for green cloud. And if we look at how Accenture itself is practicing what we preach, 95% of our applications are in the cloud. And this migration has helped us, uh, to lead to about $14.5 million in benefit. And in the third year and another 3 million analytics costs that are saved through right-sizing a service consumption. So it's a very broad umbrella and a footprint in terms of how we engage societaly with the UN or our clients. And what is it that we exactly bring to our clients in solving a specific problem? >>Accenture isn't is walking the walk, as you say, >>Instead of it, we practice what we preach, and that is something that we take it to heart. We want to have a responsible business and we want to practice it. And we want to advise our clients around that >>You are your own use case. And so they can, they know they can take your advice. So talk a little bit about, um, the global, the cooperation that's needed. We know that conquering this pandemic is going to take a coordinated global effort and talk a little bit about the great reset initiative. First of all, what is that? Why don't we, why don't we start there and then we can delve into it a little bit more. >>Okay. So before we get to how we are cooperating, the great reset, uh, initiative is about improving the state of the world. And it's about a group of global stakeholders cooperating to simultaneously manage the direct consequences of their COVID-19 crisis. Uh, and in spirit of this cooperation that we're seeing during COVID-19, uh, which will obviously either to post pandemic, to tackle the world's pressing issues. As I say, uh, we are increasing companies to realize a combined potential of technology and sustainable impact to use enterprise solutions, to address with urgency and scale, and, um, obviously, uh, multiple challenges that are facing our world. One of the ways that are increasing, uh, companies to reach their readiness cloud with Accenture's cloud strategy is to build a solid foundation that is resilient and will be able to faster to the current, as well as future times. Now, when you think of cloud as the foundation, uh, that drives the digital transformation, it's about scale speed, streamlining your operations, and obviously reducing costs. >>And as these businesses seize the construct of cloud first, they must remain obviously responsible and trusted. Now think about this, right, as part of our analysis, uh, that profitability can co-exist with responsible and sustainable practices. Let's say that all the data centers, uh, migrated from on-prem to cloud based, we estimate that would reduce carbon emissions globally by 60 million tons per year. Uh, and think about it this way, right? Easier metric would be taking out 22 million cars off the road. Um, the other examples that you've seen, right, in terms of the NHS work that they're doing, uh, in, in UK to build, uh, uh, you know, uh, Microsoft teams in based integration. And, uh, the platform rolled out for 1.2 million users, uh, and got 16,000 users that we were able to secure, uh, instant messages, obviously complete audio video calls and host virtual meetings across India. So, uh, this, this work that we did with NHS is, is something that we have, we are collaborating with a lot of tools and powering businesses. >>Well, you're vividly describing the business case for sustainability. What do you see as the future of cloud when thinking about it from this lens of sustainability, and also going back to what you were talking about in terms of how you are helping your, your fostering cooperation within these organizations. >>Yeah, that's a very good question. So if you look at today, right, businesses are obviously environmentally aware and they are expanding efforts to decrease power consumption, carbon emissions, and they want to run a sustainable operational efficiency across all elements of their business. And this is an increasing trend, and there is that option of energy efficient infrastructure in the global market. And this trend is the cloud first thinking. And with the right cloud migration that we've been discussing is about unlocking new opportunity, like clean energy foundations enable enabled by cloud based geographic analysis, material, waste reductions, and better data insights. And this is something that, uh, uh, will drive, uh, with obviously faster analytics platform that is out there. Now, the sustainability is actually the future of business, which is companies that are historically different, the financial security or agility benefits to cloud. Now sustainability becomes an imperative for them. And I would own experience Accenture's experience with cloud migrations. We have seen 30 to 40% total cost of ownership savings, and it's driving a greater workload, flexibility, better service, your obligation, and obviously more energy efficient, uh, public clouds that cost, uh, we'll see that, that drive a lot of these enterprise own data centers. So in our view, what we are seeing is that this, this, uh, sustainable cloud position helps, uh, helps companies to, uh, drive a lot of the goals in addition to their financial and other goods. >>So what should organizations who are, who are watching this interview and saying, Hey, I need to know more, what, what do you recommend to them? And what, where should they go to get more information on Greenplum? >>Yeah. If you wanna, if you are a business leader and you're thinking about which cloud provider is good, or how, how should applications be modernized to meet our day-to-day needs, which cloud driven innovations should be priorities. Uh, you know, that's why Accenture, uh, formed up the cloud first organization and essentially to provide the full stack of cloud services to help our clients become a cloud first business. Um, you know, it's all about excavation, uh, the digital transformation innovating faster, creating differentiated, uh, and sustainable value for our clients. And we are powering it up at 70,000 cloud professionals, $3 billion investment, and, uh, bringing together and services for our clients in terms of cloud solutions. And obviously the ecosystem partnership that we have that we are seeing today, uh, and, and the assets that help our clients realize their goals. Um, and again, to do reach out to us, uh, we can help them determine obviously, an optimal, sustainable cloud for solution that meets the business needs and being unprecedented levels of innovation. Our experience, uh, will be our advantage. And, uh, now more than ever Rebecca, >>Just closing us out here. Do you have any advice for these companies who are navigating a great deal of uncertainty? We, what, what do you think the next 12 to 24 months? What do you think that should be on the minds of CEOs as they go through? >>So, as CEO's are thinking about rapidly leveraging cloud, migrating to cloud, uh, one of the elements that we want them to be thoughtful about is can they do that, uh, with unprecedent level of innovation, but also build a greener planet and a greener balance sheet, if we can achieve this balance and kind of, uh, have a, have a world which is greener, I think the world will win. And we all along with Accenture clients will win. That's what I would say, uh, >>Optimistic outlook, and I will take it. Thank you so much. Kishor for coming on the show >>That was >>Accenture's Kishor Dirk, I'm Rebecca Knight stay tuned for more of the cube virtuals coverage of the Accenture executive summit >>Around the globe. >>It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome everyone to the cube virtual and our coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Part of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. Today, we are talking about the power of three. And what happens when you bring together the scientific know-how of a global bias biopharmaceutical powerhouse in Takeda, a leading cloud services provider in AWS, and Accenture's ability to innovate, execute, and deliver innovation. Joining me to talk about these things. We have Aaron, sorry, Arjun, baby. He is the senior managing director and chairman of Accenture's diamond leadership council. Welcome Arjun, Karl hick. He is the chief digital and information officer at Takeda. What is your bigger, thank you, Rebecca and Brian bowhead, global director, and head of the Accenture AWS business group at Amazon web services. Thanks so much for coming up. So, as I said, we're talking today about this relationship between, uh, your three organizations. Carl, I want to talk with you. I know you're at the beginning of your cloud journey. What was the compelling reason? What w why, why move to the cloud and why now? >>Yeah, no, thank you for the question. So, you know, as a biopharmaceutical leader, we're committed to bringing better health and a brighter future to our patients. We're doing that by translating science into some really innovative and life transporting therapies, but throughout, you know, we believe that there's a responsible use of technology, of data and of innovation. And those three ingredients are really key to helping us deliver on that promise. And so, you know, while I think, uh, I'll call it, this cloud journey is already always been a part of our strategy. Um, and we've made some pretty steady progress over the last years with a number of I'll call it diverse approaches to the digital and AI. We just weren't seeing the impact at scale that we wanted to see. Um, and I think that, you know, there's a, there's a need ultimately to, you know, accelerate and, uh, broaden that shift. >>And, you know, we were commenting on this earlier, but there's, you know, it's been highlighted by a number of factors. One of those has been certainly a number of the large acquisitions we've made Shire, uh, being the most pressing example, uh, but also the global pandemic, both of those highlight the need for us to move faster, um, at the speed of cloud, ultimately. Uh, and so we started thinking outside of the box because it was taking us too long and we decided to leverage the strategic partner model. Uh, and it's giving us a chance to think about our challenges very differently. We call this the power of three, uh, and ultimately our focus is singularly on our patients. I mean, they're waiting for us. We need to get there faster. It can take years. And so I think that there is a focus on innovation, um, at a rapid speed, so we can move ultimately from treating conditions to keeping people healthy. >>So, as you are embarking on this journey, what are some of the insights you want to share about, about what you're seeing so far? >>Yeah, no, it's a great question. So, I mean, look, maybe right before I highlight some of the key insights, uh, I would say that, you know, with cloud now as the, as the launchpad for innovation, you know, our vision all along has been that in less than 10 years, we want every single to kid, uh, associate we're employed to be empowered by an AI assistant. And I think that, you know, that's going to help us make faster, better decisions. It'll help us, uh, fundamentally deliver transformative therapies and better experiences to, to that ecosystem, to our patients, to physicians, to payers, et cetera, much faster than we previously thought possible. Um, and I think that technologies like cloud and edge computing together with a very powerful I'll call it data fabric is going to help us to create this, this real-time, uh, I'll call it the digital ecosystem. >>The data has to flow ultimately seamlessly between our patients and providers or partners or researchers, et cetera. Uh, and so we've been thinking about this, uh, I'll call it, we call it sort of this pyramid, um, that helps us describe our vision. Uh, and a lot of it has to do with ultimately modernizing the foundation, modernizing and rearchitecting, the platforms that drive the company, uh, heightening our focus on data, which means that there's an accelerated shift towards, uh, enterprise data platforms and digital products. And then ultimately, uh, uh, P you know, really an engine for innovation sitting at the very top. Um, and so I think with that, you know, there's a few different, I'll call it insights that, you know, are quickly kind of come zooming into focus. I would say one is this need to collaborate very differently. Um, you know, not only internally, but you know, how do we define ultimately, and build a connected digital ecosystem with the right partners and technologies externally? >>I think the second component that maybe people don't think as much about, but, you know, I find critically important is for us to find ways of really transforming our culture. We have to unlock talent and shift the culture certainly as a large biopharmaceutical very differently. And then lastly, you've touched on it already, which is, you know, innovation at the speed of cloud. How do we re-imagine that, you know, how do ideas go from getting tested and months to kind of getting tested in days? You know, how do we collaborate very differently? Uh, and so I think those are three, uh, perhaps of the larger I'll call it, uh, insights that, you know, the three of us are spending a lot of time thinking about right now. >>So Arjun, I want to bring you into this conversation a little bit, let let's delve into those a bit. Talk first about the collaboration, uh, that Carl was referencing there. How, how have you seen that? It is enabling, uh, colleagues and teams to communicate differently and interact in new and different ways? Uh, both internally and externally, as Carl said, >>No, th thank you for that. And, um, I've got to give call a lot of credit, because as we started to think about this journey, it was clear, it was a bold ambition. It was, uh, something that, you know, we had all to do differently. And so the, the concept of the power of three that Carl has constructed has become a label for us as a way to think about what are we going to do to collectively drive this journey forward. And to me, the unique ways of collaboration means three things. The first one is that, um, what is expected is that the three parties are going to come together and it's more than just the sum of our resources. And by that, I mean that we have to bring all of ourselves, all of our collective capabilities, as an example, Amazon has amazing supply chain capabilities. >>They're one of the best at supply chain. So in addition to resources, when we have supply chain innovations, uh, that's something that they're bringing in addition to just, uh, talent and assets, similarly for Accenture, right? We do a lot, uh, in the talent space. So how do we bring our thinking as to how we apply best practices for talent to this partnership? So, um, as we think about this, so that's, that's the first one, the second one is about shared success very early on in this partnership, we started to build some foundations and actually develop seven principles that all of us would look at as the basis for this success shared success model. And we continue to hold that sort of in the forefront, as we think about this collaboration. And maybe the third thing I would say is this one team mindset. So whether it's the three of our CEOs that get together every couple of months to think about, uh, this partnership, or it is the governance model that Carl has put together, which has all three parties in the governance and every level of leadership. We always think about this as a collective group, so that we can keep that front and center. And what I think ultimately has enabled us to do is it allowed us to move at speed, be more flexible. And ultimately all we're looking at the target the same way, the North side, the same way. >>Brian, what about you? What have you observed? And are you thinking about in terms of how this is helping teams collaborate differently, >>Lillian and Arjun made some, some great points there. And I think if you really think about what he's talking about, it's that, that diversity of talent, diversity of scale and viewpoint and even culture, right? And so we see that in the power of three. And then I think if we drill down into what we see at Takeda, and frankly, Takeda was, was really, I think, pretty visionary and on their way here, right? And taking this kind of cross functional approach and applying it to how they operate day to day. So moving from a more functional view of the world to more of a product oriented view of the world, right? So when you think about we're going to be organized around a product or a service or a capability that we're going to provide to our customers or our patients or donors in this case, it implies a different structure, although altogether, and a different way of thinking, right? >>Because now you've got technical people and business experts and marketing experts, all working together in this is sort of cross collaboration. And what's great about that is it's really the only way to succeed with cloud, right? Because the old ways of thinking where you've got application people and infrastructure, people in business, people is suboptimal, right? Because we can all access this tool as these capabilities and the best way to do that. Isn't across kind of a cross-collaborative way. And so this is product oriented mindset. It's a keto was already on. I think it's allowed us to move faster in those areas. >>Carl, I want to go back to this idea of unlocking talent and culture. And this is something that both Brian and Arjun have talked about too. People are an essential part of their, at the heart of your organization. How will their experience of work change and how are you helping re-imagine and reinforce a strong organizational culture, particularly at this time when so many people are working remotely. >>Yeah. It's a great question. And it's something that, you know, I think we all have to think a lot about, I mean, I think, um, you know, driving this, this call it, this, this digital and data kind of capability building, uh, takes a lot of, a lot of thinking. So, I mean, there's a few different elements in terms of how we're tackling this one is we're recognizing, and it's not just for the technology organization or for those actors that, that we're innovating with, but it's really across all of the Cato where we're working through ways of raising what I'll call the overall digital leaders literacy of the organization, you know, what are the, you know, what are the skills that are needed almost at a baseline level, even for a global bio-pharmaceutical company and how do we deploy, I'll call it those learning resources very broadly. >>And then secondly, I think that, you know, we're, we're very clear that there's a number of areas where there are very specialized skills that are needed. Uh, my organization is one of those. And so, you know, we're fostering ways in which, you know, we're very kind of quickly kind of creating, uh, avenues excitement for, for associates in that space. So one example specifically, as we use, you know, during these very much sort of remote, uh, sort of days, we, we use what we call global it meet days, and we set a day aside every single month and this last Friday, um, you know, we, we create during that time, it's time for personal development. Um, and we provide active seminars and training on things like, you know, robotic process automation, data analytics cloud, uh, in this last month we've been doing this for months and months now, but in his last month, more than 50% of my organization participated, and there's this huge positive shift, both in terms of access and excitement about really harnessing those new skills and being able to apply them. >>Uh, and so I think that that's, you know, one, one element that, uh, can be considered. And then thirdly, um, of course, every organization to work on, how do you prioritize talent, acquisition and management and competencies that you can't rescale? I mean, there are just some new capabilities that we don't have. And so there's a large focus that I have with our executive team and our CEO and thinking through those critical roles that we need to activate in order to kind of, to, to build on this, uh, this business led cloud transformation. And lastly, probably the hardest one, but the one that I'm most jazzed about is really this focus on changing the mindsets and behaviors. Um, and I think there, you know, this is where the power of three is, is really, uh, kind of coming together nicely. I mean, we're working on things like, you know, how do we create this patient obsessed curiosity, um, and really kind of unlock innovation with a real, kind of a growth mindset. >>Uh, and the level of curiosity that's needed, not to just continue to do the same things, but to really challenge the status quo. So that's one big area of focus we're having the agility to act just faster. I mean, to worry less, I guess I would say about kind of the standard chain of command, but how do you make more speedy, more courageous decisions? And this is places where we can emulate the way that a partner like AWS works, or how do we collaborate across the number of boundaries, you know, and I think, uh, Arjun spoke eloquently to a number of partnerships that we can build. So we can break down some of these barriers and use these networks, um, whether it's within our own internal ecosystem or externally to help, to create value faster. So a lot of energy around ways of working and we'll have to check back in, but I mean, we're early in on this mindset and behavioral shift, um, but a lot of good early momentum. >>Carl you've given me a good segue to talk to Brian about innovation, because you said a lot of the things that I was the customer obsession and this idea of innovating much more quickly. Obviously now the world has its eyes on drug development, and we've all learned a lot about it, uh, in the past few months and accelerating drug development is all, uh, is of great interest to all of us. Brian, how does a transformation like this help a company's, uh, ability to become more agile and more innovative and add a quicker speed to, >>Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think some of the things that Carl talked about just now are critical to that, right? I think where sometimes folks fall short is they think, you know, we're going to roll out the technology and the technology is going to be the silver bullet where in fact it is the culture, it is, is the talent. And it's the focus on that. That's going to be, you know, the determinant of success. And I will say, you know, in this power of three arrangement and Carl talked a little bit about the pyramid, um, talent and culture and that change, and that kind of thinking about that has been a first-class citizen since the very beginning, right. That absolutely is critical for, for being there. Um, and, and so that's been, that's been key. And so we think about innovation at Amazon and AWS, and Carl mentioned some of the things that, you know, partner like AWS can bring to the table is we talk a lot about builders, right? >>So kind of obsessive about builders. Um, and, and we meet what we mean by that is we at Amazon, we hire for builders, we cultivate builders and we like to talk to our customers about it as well. And it also implies a different mindset, right? When you're a builder, you have that, that curiosity, you have that ownership, you have that stake and whatever I'm creating, I'm going to be a co-owner of this product or this service, right. Getting back to that kind of product oriented mindset. And it's not just the technical people or the it people who are builders. It is also the business people as, as Carl talked about. Right. So when we start thinking about, um, innovation again, where we see folks kind of get into a little bit of a innovation pilot paralysis, is that you can focus on the technology, but if you're not focusing on the talent and the culture and the processes and the mechanisms, you're going to be putting out technology, but you're not going to have an organization that's ready to take it and scale it and accelerate it. >>Right. And so that's, that's been absolutely critical. So just a couple of things we've been doing with, with Takeda and Decatur has really been leading the way is, think about a mechanism and a process. And it's really been working backward from the customer, right? In this case, again, the patient and the donor. And that was an easy one because the key value of Decatur is to be a patient focused bio-pharmaceutical right. So that was embedded in their DNA. So that working back from that, that patient, that donor was a key part of that process. And that's really deep in our DNA as well. And Accenture's, and so we were able to bring that together. The other one is, is, is getting used to experimenting and even perhaps failing, right. And being able to iterate and fail fast and experiment and understanding that, you know, some decisions, what we call it at Amazon are two two-way doors, meaning you can go through that door, not like what you see and turn around and go back. And cloud really helps there because the costs of experimenting and the cost of failure is so much lower than it's ever been. You can do it much faster and the implications are so much less. So just a couple of things that we've been really driving, uh, with the cadence around innovation, that's been really critical. Carl, where are you already seeing signs of success? >>Yeah, no, it's a great question. And so we chose, you know, uh, with our focus on innovation to try to unleash maybe the power of data digital in, uh, in focusing on what I call sort of a nave. And so we chose our, our, our plasma derived therapy business, um, and you know, the plasma-derived therapy business unit, it develops critical life-saving therapies for patients with rare and complex diseases. Um, but what we're doing is by bringing kind of our energy together, we're focusing on creating, I'll call it state of the art digitally connected donation centers. And we're really modernizing, you know, the, the, the donor experience right now, we're trying to, uh, improve also I'll call it the overall plasma collection process. And so we've, uh, selected a number of alcohol at a very high speed pilots that we're working through right now, specifically in this, in this area. And we're seeing >>Really great results already. Um, and so that's, that's one specific area of focus are Jen, I want you to close this out here. Any ideas, any best practices advice you would have for other pharmaceutical companies that are, that are at the early stage of their cloud journey? Sorry. Was that for me? Yes. Sorry. Origin. Yeah, no, I was breaking up a bit. No, I think they, um, the key is what's sort of been great for me to see is that when people think about cloud, you know, you always think about infrastructure technology. The reality is that the cloud is really the true enabler for innovation and innovating at scale. And, and if you think about that, right, and all the components that you need, ultimately, that's where the value is for the company, right? Because yes, you're going to get some cost synergies and that's great, but the true value is in how do we transform the organization in the case of the Qaeda and our life sciences clients, right. >>We're trying to take a 14 year process of research and development that takes billions of dollars and compress that right. Tremendous amounts of innovation opportunity. You think about the commercial aspect, lots of innovation can come there. The plasma derived therapy is a great example of how we're going to really innovate to change the trajectory of that business. So I think innovation is at the heart of what most organizations need to do. And the formula, the cocktail that the Qaeda has constructed with this footie program really has all the ingredients, um, that are required for that success. Great. Well, thank you so much. Arjun, Brian and Carl was really an enlightening conversation. Thank you. It's been a lot of, thank you. Yeah, it's been fun. Thanks Rebecca. And thank you for tuning into the cube. Virtual has coverage of the Accenture executive summit >>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome everyone to the cubes coverage of Accenture executive summit here at AWS reinvent. I'm your host Rebecca Knight for this segment? We have two guests. First. We have Helen Davis. She is the senior director of cloud platform services, assistant director for it and digital for the West Midlands police. Thanks so much for coming on the show, Helen, and we also have Matthew pound. He is Accenture health and public service associate director and West Midlands police account lead. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Matthew, thank you for having us. So we are going to be talking about delivering data-driven insights to the West Midlands police force. Helen, I want to start with >>You. Can you tell us a little bit about the West Midlands police force? How big is the force and also what were some of the challenges that you were grappling with prior to this initiative? >>Yeah, certainly. So Westerners police is the second largest police force in the UK, outside of the metropolitan police in London. Um, we have an excessive, um, 11,000 people work at Westman ins police serving communities, um, through, across the Midlands region. So geographically, we're quite a big area as well, as well as, um, being population, um, density, having that as a, at a high level. Um, so the reason we sort of embarked on the data-driven insights platform and it, which was a huge change for us was for a number of reasons. Um, namely we had a lot of disparate data, um, which was spread across a range of legacy systems that were many, many years old, um, with some duplication of what was being captured and no single view for offices or, um, support staff. Um, some of the access was limited. You have to be in a, in an actual police building on a desktop computer to access it. Um, other information could only reach the offices on the frontline through a telephone call back to one of our enabling services where they would do a manual checkup, um, look at the information, then call the offices back, um, and tell them what they needed to know. So it was a very long laborious, um, process and not very efficient. Um, and we certainly weren't exploiting the data that we had in a very productive way. >>So it sounds like as you're describing and an old clunky system that needed a technological, uh, reimagination, so what was the main motivation for, for doing, for making this shift? >>It was really, um, about making us more efficient and more effective in how we do how we do business. So, um, you know, certainly as a, as an it leader and sort of my operational colleagues, we recognize the benefits, um, that data and analytics could bring in, uh, in a policing environment, not something that was, um, really done in the UK at the time. You know, we have a lot of data, so we're very data rich and the information that we have, but we needed to turn it into information that was actionable. So that's where we started looking for, um, technology partners and suppliers to help us and sort of help us really with what's the art of the possible, you know, this hasn't been done before. So what could we do in this space that's appropriate for policing? >>I love that idea. What is the art of the possible, can you tell us a little bit about why you chose AWS? >>I think really, you know, as with all things and when we're procuring a partner in the public sector that, you know, there are many rules and regulations, uh, quite rightly as you would expect that to be because we're spending public money. So we have to be very, very careful and, um, it's, it's a long process and we have to be open to public scrutiny. So, um, we sort of look to everything, everything that was available as part of that process, but we recognize the benefits that Clyde would provide in this space because, you know, without moving to a cloud environment, we would literally be replacing something that was legacy with something that was a bit more modern. Um, that's not what we wanted to do. Our ambition was far greater than that. So I think, um, in terms of AWS, really, it was around the scalability, interoperability, you know, disaster things like the disaster recovery service, the fact that we can scale up and down quickly, we call it dialing up and dialing back. Um, you know, it's it's page go. So it just sort of ticked all the boxes for us. And then we went through the full procurement process, fortunately, um, it came out on top for us. So we were, we were able to move forward, but it just sort of had everything that we were looking for in that space. >>Matthew, I want to bring you into the conversation a little bit here. How are you working with a wet with the West Midlands police, sorry. And helping them implement this cloud-first journey? >>Yeah, so I guess, um, by January the West Midlands police started, um, favorite five years ago now. So, um, we set up a partnership with the force. I wanted to operate in a way that it was very different to a traditional supplier relationship. Um, secretary that the data difference insights program is, is one of many that we've been working with last nights on, um, over the last five years. Um, as having said already, um, cloud gave a number of, uh, advantages certainly from a big data perspective and the things that that enabled us today, um, I'm from an Accenture perspective that allowed us to bring in a number of the different themes that we have say, cloud teams, security teams, um, and drafted from an insurance perspective, as well as more traditional services that people would associate with the country. >>I mean, so much of this is about embracing comprehensive change to experiment and innovate and try different things. Matthew, how, how do you help, uh, an entity like West Midlands police think differently when they are, there are these ways of doing things that people are used to, how do you help them think about what is the art of the possible, as Helen said, >>There's a few things to that enable those being critical is trying to co-create solutions together. Yeah. There's no point just turning up with, um, what we think is the right answer, try and say, um, collectively work three, um, the issues that the fullest is seeing and the outcomes they're looking to achieve rather than simply focusing on a long list of requirements, I think was critical and then being really open to working together to create the right solution. Um, rather than just, you know, trying to pick something off the shelf that maybe doesn't fit the forces requirements in the way that it should too, >>Right. It's not always a one size fits all. >>Absolutely not. You know, what we believe is critical is making sure that we're creating something that met the forces needs, um, in terms of the outcomes they're looking to achieve the financial envelopes that were available, um, and how we can deliver those in a, uh, iterative agile way, um, rather than spending years and years, um, working towards an outcome, um, that is gonna update before you even get that. >>So Helen, how, how are things different? What kinds of business functions and processes have been re-imagined in, in light of this change and this shift >>It's, it's actually unrecognizable now, um, in certain areas of the business as it was before. So to give you a little bit of, of context, when we, um, started working with essentially in AWS on the data driven insights program, it was very much around providing, um, what was called locally, a wizzy tool for our intelligence analysts to interrogate data, look at data, you know, decide whether they could do anything predictive with it. And it was very much sort of a back office function to sort of tidy things up for us and make us a bit better in that, in that area or a lot better in that area. And it was rolled out to a number of offices, a small number on the front line. Um, I'm really, it was, um, in line with a mobility strategy that we, hardware officers were getting new smartphones for the first time, um, to do sort of a lot of things on, on, um, policing apps and things like that to again, to avoid them, having to keep driving back to police stations, et cetera. >>And the pilot was so successful. Every officer now has access to this data, um, on their mobile devices. So it literally went from a handful of people in an office somewhere using it to do sort of clever bang things to, um, every officer in the force, being able to access that level of data at their fingertips. Literally. So what they were touched with done before is if they needed to check and address or check details of an individual, um, just as one example, they would either have to, in many cases, go back to a police station to look it up themselves on a desktop computer. Well, they would have to make a call back to a centralized function and speak to an operator, relay the questions, either, wait for the answer or wait for a call back with the answer when those people are doing the data interrogation manually. >>So the biggest change for us is the self-service nature of the data we now have available. So officers can do it themselves on their phone, wherever they might be. So the efficiency savings from that point of view are immense. And I think just parallel to that is the quality of our, because we had a lot of data, but just because you've got a lot of data and a lot of information doesn't mean it's big data and it's valuable necessarily. Um, so again, it was having the single source of truth as we, as we call it. So you know that when you are completing those safe searches and getting the responses back, that it is the most accurate information we hold. And also you're getting it back within minutes, as opposed to, you know, half an hour, an hour or a drive back to a station. So it's making officers more efficient and it's also making them safer. The more efficient they are, the more time they have to spend out with the public doing what they, you know, we all should be doing >>That kind of return on investment because what you were just describing with all the steps that we needed to be taken in prior to this, to verify an address say, and those are precious seconds when someone's life is on the line in, in sort of in the course of everyday police work. >>Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's difficult to put a price on it. It's difficult to quantify. Um, but all the, you know, the minutes here and there certainly add up to a significant amount of efficiency savings, and we've certainly been able to demonstrate the officers are spending less time up police stations as a result or more time out on the front line. Also they're safer because they can get information about what may or may not be and address what may or may not have occurred in an area before very, very quickly without having to wait. >>I do, I want to hear your observations of working so closely with this West Midlands police. Have you noticed anything about changes in its culture and its operating model in how police officers interact with one another? Have you seen any changes since this technology change? >>What's unique about the Western displaces, the buy-in from the top down, the chief and his exact team and Helen as the leader from an IOT perspective, um, the entire force is bought in. So what is a significant change program? Uh, I'm not trickles three. Um, everyone in the organization, um, change is difficult. Um, and there's a lot of time effort that's been put in to bake the technical delivery and the business change and adoption aspects around each of the projects. Um, but you can see the step change that is making in each aspect to the organization, uh, and where that's putting West Midlands police as a leader in, um, technology I'm policing in the UK. And I think globally, >>And this is a question for both of you because Matthew, as you said, change is difficult and there is always a certain intransigence in workplaces about this is just the way we've always done things and we're used to this and don't try us to get us. Don't try to get us to do anything new here. It works. How do you get the buy-in that you need to do this kind of digital transformation? >>I think it would be wrong to say it was easy. Um, um, we also have to bear in mind that this was one program in a five-year program. So there was a lot of change going on, um, both internally for some of our back office functions, as well as front tie, uh, frontline offices. So with DDI in particular, I think the stack change occurred when people could see what it could do for them. You know, we had lots of workshops and seminars where we all talk about, you know, big data and it's going to be great and it's data analytics and it's transformational, you know, and quite rightly people that are very busy doing a day job, but not necessarily technologists in the main and, you know, are particularly interested quite rightly so in what we are not dealing with the cloud, you know? And it was like, yeah, okay. >>It's one more thing. And then when they started to see on that, on their phones and what teams could do, that's when it started to sell itself. And I think that's when we started to see, you know, to see the stat change, you know, and, and if we, if we have any issues now it's literally, you know, our help desks in meltdown. Cause everyone's like, well, we call it manage without this anymore. And I think that speaks for itself. So it doesn't happen overnight. It's sort of incremental changes and then that's a step change in attitude. And when they see it working and they see the benefits, they want to use it more. And that's how it's become fundamental to all policing by itself, really, without much selling >>You, Helen just made a compelling case for how to get buy in. Have you discovered any other best practices when you are trying to get everyone on board for this kind of thing? >>We've um, we've used a lot of the traditional techniques, things around comms and engagement. We've also used things like, um, the 30 day challenge and nudge theory around how can we gradually encourage people to use things? Um, I think there's a point where all of this around, how do we just keep it simple and keep it user centric from an end user perspective? I think DDI is a great example of where the, the technology is incredibly complex. The solution itself is, um, you know, extremely large and, um, has been very difficult to, um, get delivered. But at the heart of it is a very simple front end for the user to encourage it and take that complexity away from them. Uh, I think that's been critical through the whole piece of DDR. >>One final word from Helen. I want to hear, where do you go from here? What is the longterm vision? I know that this has made productivity, um, productivity savings equivalent to 154 full-time officers. Uh, what's next, >>I think really it's around, um, exploiting what we've got. Um, I use the phrase quite a lot, dialing it up, which drives my technical architects crazy, but because it's apparently not that simple, but, um, you know, we've, we've been through significant change in the last five years and we are still continuing to batch all of those changes into everyday, um, operational policing. But what we need to see is we need to exploit and build on the investments that we've made in terms of data and claims specifically, the next step really is about expanding our pool of data and our functions. Um, so that, you know, we keep getting better and better at this. Um, the more we do, the more data we have, the more refined we can be, the more precise we are with all of our actions. Um, you know, we're always being expected to, again, look after the public purse and do more for less. And I think this is certainly an and our cloud journey and cloud first by design, which is where we are now, um, is helping us to be future-proofed. So for us, it's very much an investment. And I see now that we have good at embedded in operational policing for me, this is the start of our journey, not the end. So it's really exciting to see where we can go from here. >>Exciting times. Indeed. Thank you so much. Lily, Helen and Matthew for joining us. I really appreciate it. Thank you. And you are watching the cube stay tuned for more of the cubes coverage of the AWS reinvent Accenture executive summit. I'm Rebecca Knight from around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Hi, everyone. Welcome to the cube virtual coverage of the executive summit at AWS reinvent 2020 virtual. This is the cube virtual. We can't be there in person like we are every year we have to be remote. This executive summit is with special programming supported by Accenture where the cube virtual I'm your host John for a year, we had a great panel here called uncloud first digital transformation from some experts, Stuart driver, the director of it and infrastructure and operates at lion Australia, Douglas Regan, managing director, client account lead at lion for Accenture as a deep Islam associate director application development lead for Accenture gentlemen, thanks for coming on the cube virtual that's a mouthful, all that digital, but the bottom line it's cloud transformation. This is a journey that you guys have been on together for over 10 years to be really a digital company. Now, some things have happened in the past year that kind of brings all this together. This is about the next generation organization. So I want to ask Stuart you first, if you can talk about this transformation at lion has undertaken some of the challenges and opportunities and how this year in particular has brought it together because you know, COVID has been the accelerant of digital transformation. Well, if you're 10 years in, I'm sure you're there. You're in the, uh, on that wave right now. Take a minute to explain this transformation journey. >>Yeah, sure. So number of years back, we looked at kind of our infrastructure and our landscape trying to figure out where we >>Wanted to go next. And we were very analog based and stuck in the old it groove of, you know, Capitol reef rash, um, struggling to transform, struggling to get to a digital platform and we needed to change it up so that we could become very different business to the one that we were back then obviously cloud is an accelerant to that. And we had a number of initiatives that needed a platform to build on. And a cloud infrastructure was the way that we started to do that. So we went through a number of transformation programs that we didn't want to do that in the old world. We wanted to do it in a new world. So for us, it was partnering up with a dried organizations that can take you on the journey and, uh, you know, start to deliver bit by bit incremental progress, uh, to get to the, uh, I guess the promise land. >>Um, we're not, not all the way there, but to where we're on the way along. And then when you get to some of the challenges like we've had this year, um, it makes all of the hard work worthwhile because you can actually change pretty quickly, um, provide capacity and, uh, and increase your environments and, you know, do the things that you need to do in a much more dynamic way than we would have been able to previously where we might've been waiting for the hardware vendors, et cetera, to deliver capacity. So for us this year, it's been a pretty strong year from an it perspective and delivering for the business needs >>Before I hit the Douglas. I want to just real quick, a redirect to you and say, you know, if all the people said, Oh yeah, you got to jump on cloud, get in early, you know, a lot of naysayers like, well, wait till to mature a little bit, really, if you got in early and you, you know, paying your dues, if you will taking that medicine with the cloud, you're really kind of peaking at the right time. Is that true? Is that one of the benefits that comes out of this getting in the cloud? Yeah, >>John, this has been an unprecedented year, right. And, um, you know, Australia, we had to live through Bush fires and then we had covert and, and then we actually had to deliver a, um, a project on very large transformational project, completely remote. And then we also had had some, some cyber challenges, which is public as well. And I don't think if we weren't moved into and enabled through the cloud, we would have been able to achieve that this year. It would have been much different, would have been very difficult to do the backing. We're able to work and partner with Amazon through this year, which is unprecedented and actually come out the other end. Then we've delivered a brand new digital capability across the entire business. Um, in many, you know, wouldn't have been impossible if we could, I guess, state in the old world, the fact that we were moved into the new Naval by the new allowed us to work in this unprecedented year. >>Just quick, what's your personal view on this? Because I've been saying on the Cuban reporting necessity is the mother of all invention and the word agility has been kicked around as kind of a cliche, Oh, it'd be agile. You know, we're going to get the city, you get a minute on specifically, but from your perspective, uh, Douglas, what does that mean to you? Because there is benefits there for being agile. And >>I mean, I think as Stuart mentioned, right, in a lot of these things we try to do and, you know, typically, you know, hardware and of the last >>To be told and, and, and always on the critical path to be done, we really didn't have that in this case, what we were doing with our projects in our deployments, right. We were able to move quickly able to make decisions in line with the business and really get things going. Right. So you see a lot of times in a traditional world, you have these inhibitors, you have these critical path, it takes weeks and months to get things done as opposed to hours and days, and truly allowed us to, we had to, you know, VJ things, move things. And, you know, we were able to do that in this environment with AWS support and the fact that we can kind of turn things off and on as quickly as we need it. >>Yeah. Cloud-scale is great for speed. So DECA, Gardez get your thoughts on this cloud first mission, you know, it, you know, the dev ops world, they saw this early that jumping in there, they saw the, the, the agility. Now the theme this year is modern applications with the COVID pandemic pressure, there's real business pressure to make that happen. How did you guys learn to get there fast? And what specifically did you guys do at Accenture and how did it all come together? Can you take us inside kind of how it played out? >>Oh, right. So yeah, we started off with, as we do in most cases with a much more bigger group, and we worked with lions functional experts and, uh, the lost knowledge that allowed the infrastructure being had. Um, we then applied our journey to cloud strategy, which basically revolves around the seminars and, and, uh, you know, the deep three steps from our perspective, uh, assessing the current environment, setting up the new cloud environment. And as we go modernizing and, and migrating these applications to the cloud now, you know, one of the key things that, uh, you know, we learned along this journey was that, you know, you can have the best plans, but bottom line that we were dealing with, we often than not have to make changes. Uh, what a lot of agility and also work with a lot of collaboration with the, uh, Lyon team, as well as, uh, uh, AWS. I think the key thing for me was being able to really bring it all together. It's not just, uh, you know, essentially mobilize it's all of us working together to make this happen. >>What were some of the learnings real quick journeys? >>So I think so the perspective of the key learnings that, you know, uh, you know, when you look back at, uh, the, the infrastructure that was that we were trying to migrate over to the cloud, a lot of the documentation, et cetera, was not available. We were having to, uh, figure out a lot of things on the fly. Now that really required us to have, uh, uh, people with deep expertise who could go into those environments and, and work out, uh, you know, the best ways to, to migrate the workloads to the cloud. Uh, I think, you know, the, the biggest thing for me was making sure all the had on that real SMEs across the board globally, that we could leverage across the various technologies, uh, uh, and, and, and, you know, that would really work in our collaborative and agile environment with line. >>Let's do what I got to ask you. How did you address your approach to the cloud and what was your experience? >>Yeah, for me, it's around getting the foundations right. To start with and then building on them. Um, so, you know, you've gotta have your, your, your process and you've got to have your, your kind of your infrastructure there and your blueprints ready. Um, AWS do a great job of that, right. Getting the foundations right. And then building upon it, and then, you know, partnering with Accenture allows you to do that very successfully. Um, I think, um, you know, the one thing that was probably surprising to us when we started down this journey and kind of after we got a long way down the track and looking backwards is actually how much you can just turn off. Right? So a lot of stuff that you, uh, you get left with a legacy in your environment, and when you start to work through it with the types of people that civic just mentioned, you know, the technical expertise working with the business, um, you can really rationalize your environment and, uh, you know, cloud is a good opportunity to do that, to drive that legacy out. >>Um, so you know, a few things there, the other thing is, um, you've got to try and figure out the benefits that you're going to get out of moving here. So there's no point just taking something that is not delivering a huge amount of value in the traditional world, moving it into the cloud, and guess what is going to deliver the same limited amount of value. So you've got to transform it, and you've got to make sure that you build it for the future and understand exactly what you're trying to gain out of it. So again, you need a strong collaboration. You need a good partners to work with, and you need good engagement from the business as well, because the kind of, uh, you know, digital transformation, cloud transformation, isn't really an it project, I guess, fundamentally it is at the core, but it's a business project that you've got to get the whole business aligned on. You've got to make sure that your investment streams are appropriate and that you're able to understand the benefits and the value that, so you're going to drive back towards the business. >>Let's do it. If you don't mind me asking, what was some of the obstacles you encountered or learnings, um, that might different from the expectation we all been there, Hey, you know, we're going to change the world. Here's the sales pitch, here's the outcome. And then obviously things happen, you know, you learn legacy, okay. Let's put some containerization around that cloud native, um, all that rational. You're talking about what are, and you're going to have obstacles. That's how you learn. That's how perfection has developed. How, what obstacles did you come up with and how are they different from your expectations going in? >>Yeah, they're probably no different from other people that have gone down the same journey. If I'm totally honest, the, you know, 70 or 80% of what you do is relatively easy of the known quantity. It's relatively modern architectures and infrastructures, and you can upgrade, migrate, move them into the cloud, whatever it is, rehost, replatform, rearchitect, whatever it is you want to do, it's the other stuff, right? It's the stuff that always gets left behind. And that's the challenge. It's, it's getting that last bit over the line and making sure that you haven't invested in the future while still carrying all of your legacy costs and complexity within your environment. So, um, to be quite honest, that's probably taken longer and has been more of a challenge than we thought it would be. Um, the other piece I touched on earlier on in terms of what was surprising was actually how much of, uh, your environment is actually not needed anymore. >>When you start to put a critical eye across it and understand, um, uh, ask the tough questions and start to understand exactly what, what it is you're trying to achieve. So if you ask a part of a business, do they still need this application or this service a hundred percent of the time, they will say yes until you start to lay out to them, okay, now I'm going to cost you this to migrate it or this, to run it in the future. And, you know, here's your ongoing costs and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And then, uh, for a significant amount of those answers, you get a different response when you start to layer on the true value of it. So you start to flush out those hidden costs within the business, and you start to make some critical decisions as a company based on, uh, based on that. So that was a little tougher than we first thought and probably broader than we thought there was more of that than we anticipated, um, which actually results in a much cleaner environment post and post migration. >>You know, the old expression, if it moves automated, you know, it's kind of a joke on government, how they want to tax everything, you know, you want to automate, that's a key thing in cloud, and you've got to discover those opportunities to create value Stuart and Sadiq. Mainly if you can weigh in on this love to know the percentage of total cloud that you have now, versus when you started, because as you start to uncover whether it's by design for purpose, or you discover opportunities to innovate, like you guys have, I'm sure it kind of, you took on some territory inside Lyon, what percentage of cloud now versus stark? >>Yeah. At the start, it was minimal, right. You know, close to zero, right. Single and single digits. Right. It was mainly SAS environments that we had, uh, sitting in clouds when we, uh, when we started, um, Doug mentioned earlier on a really significant transformation project, um, that we've undertaken and recently gone live on a multi-year one. Um, you know, that's all stood up on AWS and is a significant portion of our environment, um, in terms of what we can move to cloud. Uh, we're probably at about 80 or 90% now. And the balanced bit is, um, legacy infrastructure that is just gonna retire as we go through the cycle rather than migrate to the cloud. Um, so we are significantly cloud-based and, uh, you know, we're reaping the benefits of it. I know you like 20, 20, I'm actually glad that you did all the hard yards in the previous years when you started that business challenges thrown out as, >>So do you any common reaction to the cloud percentage penetration? >>I mean, guys don't, but I was going to say was, I think it's like the 80 20 rule, right? We, we, we worked really hard in the, you know, I think 2018, 19 to get any person off, uh, after getting a loan, the cloud and, or the last year is the 20% that we have been migrating. And Stuart said like, uh, not that is also, that's going to be a good diet. And I think our next big step is going to be obviously, you know, the icing on the tape, which is to decommission all these apps as well. Right. So, you know, to get the real benefits out of, uh, the whole conservation program from a, uh, from a >>Douglas and Stewart, can you guys talk about the decision around the cloud because you guys have had success with AWS, why AWS how's that decision made? Can you guys give some insight into some of those thoughts? >>I can stop, start off. I think back when the decision was made and it was, it was a while back, um, you know, there's some clear advantages of moving relay, Ws, a lot of alignment with some of the significant projects and, uh, the trend, that particular one big transformation project that we've alluded to as well. Um, you know, we needed some, uh, some very robust and, um, just future proof and, um, proven technology. And they Ws gave that to us. We needed a lot of those blueprints to help us move down the path. We didn't want to reinvent everything. So, um, you know, having a lot of that legwork done for us and AWS gives you that, right. And, and particularly when you partner up with, uh, with a company like Accenture as well, you get combinations of the technology and the skills and the knowledge to, to move you forward in that direction. >>So, um, you know, for us, it was a, uh, uh, it was a decision based on, you know, best of breed, um, you know, looking forward and, and trying to predict the future needs and, and, and kind of the environmental that we might need. Um, and, you know, partnering up with organizations that can then take you on the journey. Yeah. And just to build on it. So obviously, you know, lion's like an AWS, but, you know, we knew it was a very good choice given that, um, uh, the skills and the capability that we had, as well as the assets and tools we had to get the most out of, um, AWS and obviously our, our CEO globally, you know, announcement about a huge investment that we're making in cloud. Um, but you know, we've, we've worked very well DWS, we've done some joint workshops and joint investments, um, some joint POC. So yeah, w we have a very good working relationship, AWS, and I think, um, one incident to reflect upon whether it's cyber it's and again, where we actually jointly, you know, dove in with, um, with Amazon and some of their security experts and our experts. And we're able to actually work through that with mine quite successfully. So, um, you know, really good behaviors as an organization, but also really good capabilities. >>Yeah. As you guys, you're essential cloud outcomes, research shown, it's the cycle of innovation with the cloud. That's creating a lot of benefits, knowing what you guys know now, looking back certainly COVID is impacted a lot of people kind of going through the same process, knowing what you guys know now, would you advocate people to jump on this transformation journey? If so, how, and what tweaks they make, which changes, what would you advise? >>Uh, I might take that one to start with. Um, I hate to think where we would have been when, uh, COVID kicked off here in Australia and, you know, we were all sent home, literally were at work on the Friday, and then over the weekend. And then Monday, we were told not to come back into the office and all of a sudden, um, our capacity in terms of remote access and I quadrupled, or more four, five X, uh, what we had on the Friday we needed on the Monday. And we were able to stand that up during the day Monday and into Tuesday, because we were cloud-based. And, uh, you know, we just found up your instances and, uh, you know, sort of our licensing, et cetera. And we had all of our people working remotely, um, within, uh, you know, effectively one business day. >>Um, I know peers of mine in other organizations and industries that are relying on kind of a traditional wise and getting hardware, et cetera, that were weeks and months before they could get their, the right hardware to be able to deliver to their user base. So, um, you know, one example where you're able to scale and, uh, uh, get, uh, get value out of this platform beyond probably what was anticipated at the time you talk about, um, you know, less the, in all of these kinds of things. And you can also think of a few scenarios, but real world ones where you're getting your business back up and running in that period of time is, is just phenomenal. There's other stuff, right? There's these programs that we've rolled out, you do your sizing, um, and in the traditional world, you would just go out and buy more servers than you need. >>And, you know, probably never realize the full value of those, you know, the capability of those servers over the life cycle of them. Whereas you're in a cloud world, you put in what you think is right. And if it's not right, you pump it up a little bit when, when all of your metrics and so on, tell you that you need to bump it up. And conversely you scale it down at the same rate. So for us, with the types of challenges and programs and, uh, uh, and just business need, that's come at as this year, uh, we wouldn't have been able to do it without a strong cloud base, uh, to, uh, to move forward >>Know Douglas. One of the things that I talked to, a lot of people on the right side of history who have been on the right wave with cloud, with the pandemic, and they're happy, they're like, and they're humble. Like, well, we're just lucky, you know, luck is preparation meets opportunity. And this is really about you guys getting in early and being prepared and readiness. This is kind of important as people realize, then you gotta be ready. I mean, it's not just, you don't get lucky by being in the right place, the right time. And there were a lot of companies were on the wrong side of history here who might get washed away. This is a super important, I think, >>To echo and kind of build on what Stewart said. I think that the reason that we've had success and I guess the momentum is we, we didn't just do it in isolation within it and technology. It was actually linked to broader business changes, you know, creating basically a digital platform for the entire business, moving the business, where are they going to be able to come back stronger after COVID, when they're actually set up for growth, um, and actually allows, you know, lying to achievements growth objectives, and also its ambitions as far as what it wants to do, uh, with growth in whatever they make, do with acquiring other companies and moving into different markets and launching new products. So we've actually done it in a way that is, you know, real and direct business benefit, uh, that actually enables line to grow >>General. I really appreciate you coming. I have one final question. If you can wrap up here, uh, Stuart and Douglas, you don't mind weighing in what's the priorities for the future. What's next for lion in a century >>Christmas holidays, I'll start Christmas holidays been a big deal and then a, and then a reset, obviously, right? So, um, you know, it's, it's figuring out, uh, transform what we've already transformed, if that makes sense. So God, a huge proportion of our services sitting in the cloud. Um, but we know we're not done even with the stuff that is in there. We need to take those next steps. We need more and more automation and orchestration. We need to, um, our environment, there's more future growth. We need to be able to work with the business and understand what's coming at them so that we can, um, you know, build that into, into our environment. So again, it's really transformation on top of transformation is the way that I'll describe it. And it's really an open book, right? Once you get it in and you've got the capabilities and the evolving tool sets that, uh, AWS continue to bring to the market, um, you know, working with the partners to, to figure out how we unlock that value, um, you know, drive our costs down efficiency, uh, all of those kind of, you know, standard metrics. >>Um, but you know, we're looking for the next things to transform and show value back out to our customer base, um, that, uh, that we continue to, you know, sell our products to and work with and understand how we can better meet their needs. Yeah, I think just to echo that, I think it's really leveraging this and then did you capability they have and getting the most out of that investment. And then I think it's also moving to, uh, and adopting more new ways of working as far as, you know, the speed of the business, um, is getting up the speed of the market is changing. So being able to launch and do things quickly and also, um, competitive and efficient operating costs, uh, now that they're in the cloud, right? So I think it's really leveraging the most out of the platform and then, you know, being efficient in launching things. So putting them with the business, >>Any word from you on your priorities by you see this year in folding, >>There's got to say like e-learning squares, right, for me around, you know, just journey. This is a journey to the cloud, right. >>And, uh, you know, as well, the sort of Saturday, it's getting all, you know, different parts of the organization along the journey business to it, to your, uh, product lenders, et cetera. Right. And it takes time. It is tough, but, uh, uh, you know, you got to get started on it. And, you know, once we, once we finish off, uh, it's the realization of the benefits now that, you know, looking forward, I think for, from Alliance perspective, it is, uh, you know, once we migrate all the workloads to the cloud, it is leveraging, uh, all staff, right. And as I think students said earlier, uh, with, uh, you know, the latest and greatest stuff that AWS is basically working to see how we can really, uh, achieve more better operational excellence, uh, from a, uh, from a cloud perspective. >>Well, Stewart, thanks for coming on with a and sharing your environment and what's going on and your journey you're on the right wave. Did the work you're in, it's all coming together with faster, congratulations for your success, and, uh, really appreciate Douglas with Steve for coming on as well from Accenture. Thank you for coming on. Thanks, John. Okay. Just the cubes coverage of executive summit at AWS reinvent. This is where all the thought leaders share their best practices, their journeys, and of course, special programming with Accenture and the cube. I'm Sean ferry, your host, thanks for watching from around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome everyone to the cube virtuals coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Part of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. We are talking today about reinventing the energy data platform. We have two guests joining us. First. We have Johan Krebbers. He is the GM digital emerging technologies and VP of it. Innovation at shell. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Johan you're welcome. And next we have Liz Dennett. She is the lead solution architect for O S D U on AWS. Thank you so much Liz to be here. So I want to start our conversation by talking about OSD. You like so many great innovations. It started with a problem Johan. What was the problem you were trying to solve at shell? >>Yeah, the ethical back a couple of years, we started shoving 2017 where we had a meeting with the deg, the gas exploration in shell, and the main problem they had. Of course, they got lots of lots of data, but are unable to find the right data. They need to work from all over the place. And totally >>Went to real, probably tried to solve is how that person working exploration could find their proper date, not just a day, but also the date you really needed that we did probably talked about his summer 2017. And we said, okay, they don't maybe see this moving forward is to start pulling that data into a single data platform. And that, that was at the time that we called it as the, you, the subsurface data universe in there was about the shell name was so in, in January, 2018, we started a project with Amazon to start grating a co fricking that building, that Stu environment that subserve the universe, so that single data level to put all your exploration and Wells data into that single environment that was intent. And every cent, um, already in March of that same year, we said, well, from Michelle point of view, we will be far better off if we could make this an industry solution and not just a shelf sluice, because Shelby, Shelby, if you can make an industry solution where people are developing applications for it, it also is far better than for shell to say we haven't shell special solution because we don't make money out of how we start a day that we can make money out of it. >>We have access to the data, we can explore the data. So storing the data we should do as efficiently possibly can. So we monitor, we reach out to about eight or nine other large, uh, or I guess operators like the economics, like the tutorials, like the chefs of this world and say, Hey, we inshallah doing this. Do you want to join this effort? And to our surprise, they all said, yes. And then in September, 2018, we had our kickoff meeting with your open group where we said, we said, okay, if you want to work together with lots of other companies, we also need to look at okay, how, how we organize that. Or if you started working with lots of large companies, you need to have some legal framework around some framework around it. So that's why we went to the open group and say, okay, let's, let's form the old forum as we call it at the time. So it's September, 2080, where I did a Galleria in Houston, but the kickoff meeting for the OT four with about 10 members at the time. So there's just over two years ago, we started an exercise for me called ODU, uh, kicked it off. Uh, and so that's really them will be coming from and how we've got there. Also >>The origin story. Um, what, so what digging a little deeper there? What were some of the things you were trying to achieve with the OSU? >>Well, a couple of things we've tried to achieve with you, um, first is really separating data from applications for what is, what is the biggest problem we have in the subsurface space that the data and applications are all interlinked tied together. And if, if you have them and a new company coming along and say, I have this new application and is access to the data that is not possible because the data often interlinked with the application. So the first thing we did is really breaking the link between the application, the data out as those levels, the first thing we did, secondly, put all the data to a single data platform, take the silos out what was happening in the sub-service space and know they got all the data in what we call silos in small little islands out there. So what we're trying to do is first break the link to great, great. >>They put the data single day, the bathroom, and the third part, put a standard layer on top of that, it's an API layer on top to create a platform. So we could create an ecosystem out of companies to start a valving shop application on top of dev data platform across you might have a data platform, but you're only successful. If you have a rich ecosystem of people start developing applications on top of that. And then you can export the data like small companies, last company, university, you name it, we're getting after create an ecosystem out there. So the three things were as was first break, the link between application data, just break it and put data at the center and also make sure that data, this data structure would not be managed by one company. It would only be met. It will be managed the data structures by the ODI forum. Secondly, then put a data, a single data platform certainly then has an API layer on top and then create an ecosystem. Really go for people, say, please start developing applications because now you have access to the data or the data no longer linked to somebody whose application was all freely available, but an API layer that was, that was all September, 2018, more or less >>To hear a little bit. Can you talk a little bit about some of the imperatives from the AWS standpoint in terms of what you were trying to achieve with this? Yeah, absolutely. And this whole thing is Johann said started with a challenge that was really brought out at shell. The challenges that geoscientists spend up to 70% of their time looking for data. I'm a geologist I've spent more than 70% of my time trying to find data in these silos. And from there, instead of just figuring out how we could address that one problem, we worked together to really understand the root cause of these challenges and working backwards from that use case OSU and OSU on AWS has really enabled customers to create solutions that span, not just this in particular problem, but can really scale to be inclusive of the entire energy value chain and deliver value from these use cases to the energy industry and beyond. >>Thank you, Lee, >>Uh, Johann. So talk a little bit about Accenture's cloud first approach and how it has, uh, helped shell work faster and better with it. >>Well, of course, access a cloud first approach only works together. It's been an Amazon environment, AWS environment. So we really look at, uh, at, at Accenture and others up together helping shell in this space. Now the combination of the two is where we're really looking at, uh, where access of course can be increased knowledge student to that environment operates support knowledge to do an environment. And of course, Amazon will be doing that to this environment that underpinning their services, et cetera. So, uh, we would expect a combination, a lot of goods when we started rolling out and put in production, the old you are three and four because we are anus. Then when release feed comes to the market in Q1 next year of ODU, when he started going to Audi production inside shell, but as the first release, which is ready for prime time production across an enterprise will be released just before Christmas, last year when he's still in may of this year. But really three is the first release we want to use for full scale production deployment inside shell, and also all the operators around the world. And there is one Amazon, sorry, at that one. Um, extensive can play a role in the ongoing, in the, in deployment building up, but also support environment. >>So one of the other things that we talk a lot about here on the cube is sustainability. And this is a big imperative at so many organizations around the world in particular energy companies. How does this move to OSD you, uh, help organizations become, how is this a greener solution for companies? >>Well, first he make it's a greatest solution because you start making a much more efficient use of your resources. is already an important one. The second thing we're doing is also, we started with ODU in framers, in the oil and gas space in the expert development space. We've grown, uh, OTU in our strategy, we've grown. I was, you know, also do an alternative energy sociology. We'll all start supporting next year. Things like solar farms, wind farms, uh, the, the dermatomal environment hydration. So it becomes an and, and an open energy data platform, not just what I want to get into steep that's for new industry, any type of energy industry. So our focus is to create, bring the data of all those various energy data sources to get me to a single data platform you can to use AI and other technology on top of that, to exploit the data, to beat again into a single data platform. >>Liz, I want to ask you about security because security is, is, is such a big concern when it comes to data. How secure is the data on OSD? You, um, actually, can I talk, can I do a follow up on this sustainability talking? Oh, absolutely. By all means. I mean, I want to interject though security is absolutely our top priority. I don't mean to move away from that, but with sustainability, in addition to the benefits of the OSU data platform, when a company moves from on-prem to the cloud, they're also able to leverage the benefits of scale. Now, AWS is committed to running our business in the most environmentally friendly way possible. And our scale allows us to achieve higher resource utilization and energy efficiency than a typical data center. Now, a recent study by four 51 research found that AWS is infrastructure is 3.6 times more energy efficient than the median of surveyed enterprise data centers. Two thirds of that advantage is due to higher, um, server utilization and a more energy efficient server population. But when you factor in the carbon intensity of consumed electricity and renewable energy purchases for 51 found that AWS performs the same task with an 88% lower carbon footprint. Now that's just another way that AWS and OSU are working to support our customers is they seek to better understand their workflows and make their legacy businesses less carbon intensive. >>That's that's incorrect. Those are those statistics are incredible. Do you want to talk a little bit now about security? Absolutely. Security will always be AWS is top priority. In fact, AWS has been architected to be the most flexible and secure cloud computing environment available today. Our core infrastructure is built to satisfy. There are the security requirements for the military global banks and other high sensitivity organizations. And in fact, AWS uses the same secure hardware and software to build an operate each of our regions. So that customers benefit from the only commercial cloud that's hat hits service offerings and associated supply chain vetted and deemed secure enough for top secret workloads. That's backed by a deep set of cloud security tools with more than 200 security compliance and governmental service and key features as well as an ecosystem of partners like Accenture, that can really help our customers to make sure that their environments for their data meet and or exceed their security requirements. Johann, I want you to talk a little bit about how OSD you can be used today. Does it only handle subsurface data? >>Uh, today it's Honda's subserves or Wells data. We got to add to that production around the middle of next year. That means that the whole upstate business. So we've got goes from exploration all the way to production. You've made it together into a single data platform. So production will be added around Q3 of next year. Then a principal. We have a difficult, the elder data that single environment, and we want to extend it then to other data sources or energy sources like solar farms, wind farms, uh, hydrogen, hydro, et cetera. So we're going to add a whore, a whole list of audit day energy source to them and be all the data together into a single data club. So we move from an all in guest data platform to an entity data platform. That's really what our objective is because the whole industry, if you look it over, look at our competition or moving in that same two acts of quantity of course, are very strong in oil and gas, but also increased the, got into other energy sources like, like solar, like wind, like th like highly attended, et cetera. So we would be moving exactly what it's saying, method that, that, that, that the whole OSU can't really support at home. And as a spectrum of energy sources, >>Of course, and Liz and Johan. I want you to close this out here by just giving us a look into your crystal balls and talking about the five and 10 year plan for OSD. We'll start with you, Liz, what do you, what do you see as the future holding for this platform? Um, honestly, the incredibly cool thing about working at AWS is you never know where the innovation and the journey is going to take you. I personally am looking forward to work with our customers, wherever their OSU journeys, take them, whether it's enabling new energy solutions or continuing to expand, to support use cases throughout the energy value chain and beyond, but really looking forward to continuing to partner as we innovate to slay tomorrow's challenges, Johann first, nobody can look at any more nowadays, especially 10 years, but our objective is really in the next five years, you will become the key backbone for energy companies for store your data intelligence and optimize the whole supply energy supply chain, uh, in this world Johan Krebbers Liz Dennett. Thank you so much for coming on the cube virtual. Thank you. I'm Rebecca Knight stay tuned for more of our coverage of the Accenture executive summit >>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent executive summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >>Welcome everyone to the cubes coverage of the Accenture executive summit. Part of AWS reinvent. I'm your host Rebecca Knight today we're welcoming back to Cuba alum. We have Kishor Dirk. He is the Accenture senior managing director cloud first global services lead. Welcome back to the show Kishore. Thank you very much. Nice to meet again. And, uh, Tristan moral horse set. He is the managing director, Accenture cloud first North American growth. Welcome back to you to Tristin. Great to be back in grapes here again, Rebecca. Exactly. Even in this virtual format, it is good to see your faces. Um, today we're going to be talking about my NAB and green cloud advisor capability. Kishor I want to start with you. So my NAB is a platform that is really celebrating its first year in existence. Uh, November, 2019 is when Accenture introduced it. Uh, but it's, it has new relevance in light of this global pandemic that we are all enduring and suffering through. Tell us a little bit about the lineup platform, what it is that cloud platform to help our clients navigate the complexity of cloud and cloud decisions and to make it faster. And obviously, you know, we have in the cloud, uh, you know, with >>The increased relevance and all the, especially over the last few months with the impact of COVID crisis and exhibition of digital transformation, you know, we are seeing the transformation of the exhibition to cloud much faster. This platform that you're talking about has enabled hardened 40 clients globally across different industries. You identify the right cloud solution, navigate the complexity, provide a cloud specific solution simulate for our clients to meet that strategy business needs. And the clients are loving it. >>I want to go to you now trust and tell us a little bit about how my nav works and how it helps companies make good cloud choice. >>Yeah, so Rebecca, we we've talked about cloud is, is more than just infrastructure and that's what mine app tries to solve for it. It really looks at a variety of variables, including infrastructure operating model and fundamentally what clients' business outcomes, um, uh, our clients are, are looking for and, and identifies the optimal solution for what they need. And we assign this to accelerate. And we mentioned that the pandemic, one of the big focus now is to accelerate. And so we worked through a three-step process. The first is scanning and assessing our client's infrastructure, their data landscape, their application. Second, we use our automated artificial intelligence engine to interact with. We have a wide variety and library of, uh, collective plot expertise. And we look to recommend what is the enterprise architecture and solution. And then third, before we live with our clients, we look to simulate and test this scaled up model. And the simulation gives our clients a way to see what cloud is going to look like, feel like and how it's going to transform their business before they go there. >>Tell us a little bit about that in real life. Now as a company, so many of people are working remotely having to collaborate, uh, not in real life. How is that helping them right now? >>So, um, the, the pandemic has put a tremendous strain on systems, uh, because of the demand on those systems. And so we talk about resiliency. We also now need to collaborate across data across people. Um, I think all of us are calling from a variety of different places where our last year we were all at the VA cube itself. Um, and, and cloud technologies such as teams, zoom that we're we're leveraging now has fundamentally accelerated and clients are looking to onboard this for their capabilities. They're trying to accelerate their journey. They realize that now the cloud is what is going to become important for them to differentiate. Once we come out of the pandemic and the ability to collaborate with their employees, their partners, and their clients through these systems is becoming a true business differentiator for our clients. >>Keisha, I want to talk with you now about my navs multiple capabilities, um, and helping clients design and navigate their cloud journeys. Tell us a little bit about the green cloud advisor capability and its significance, particularly as so many companies are thinking more deeply and thoughtfully about sustainability. >>Yes. So since the launch of my NAB, we continue to enhance capabilities for our clients. One of the significant, uh, capabilities that we have enabled is the being or advisor today. You know, Rebecca, a lot of the businesses are more environmentally aware and are expanding efforts to decrease power consumption, uh, and obviously carbon emissions and, uh, and run a sustainable operations across every aspect of the enterprise. Uh, as a result, you're seeing an increasing trend in adoption of energy, efficient infrastructure in the global market. And one of the things that we did, a lot of research we found out is that there's an ability to influence our client's carbon footprint through a better cloud solution. And that's what we internalize, uh, brings to us, uh, in, in terms of a lot of the client connotation that you're seeing in Europe, North America and others. Lot of our clients are accelerating to a green cloud strategy to unlock greater financial societal and environmental benefit, uh, through obviously cloud-based circular, operational, sustainable products and services. That is something that we are enhancing my now, and we are having active client discussions at this point of time. >>So Tristan, tell us a little bit about how this capability helps clients make greener decisions. >>Yeah. Um, well, let's start about the investments from the cloud providers in renewable and sustainable energy. Um, they have most of the hyperscalers today, um, have been investing significantly on data centers that are run on renewable energy, some incredibly creative constructs on the, how, how to do that. And sustainability is there for a key, um, key item of importance for the hyperscalers and also for our clients who now are looking for sustainable energy. And it turns out this marriage is now possible. I can, we marry the, the green capabilities of the cloud providers with a sustainability agenda of our clients. And so what we look into the way the mind works is it looks at industry benchmarks and evaluates our current clients, um, capabilities and carpet footprint leveraging their existing data centers. We then look to model from an end-to-end perspective, how the, their journey to the cloud leveraging sustainable and, um, and data centers with renewable energy. We look at how their solution will look like and, and quantify carbon tax credits, um, improve a green index score and provide quantifiable, um, green cloud capabilities and measurable outcomes to our clients, shareholders, stakeholders, clients, and customers. Um, and our green plot advisers sustainability solutions already been implemented at three clients. And in many cases in two cases has helped them reduce the carbon footprint by up to 400% through migration from their existing data center to green cloud. Very, very, >>That is remarkable. Now tell us a little bit about the kinds of clients. Is this, is this more interesting to clients in Europe? Would you say that it's catching on in the United States? Where, what is the breakdown that you're seeing right now? >>Sustainability is becoming such a global agenda and we're seeing our clients, um, uh, tie this and put this at board level, um, uh, agenda and requirements across the globe. Um, Europe has specific constraints around data sovereignty, right, where they need their data in country, but from a green, a sustainability agenda, we see clients across all our markets, North America, Europe in our growth markets adopt this. And we have seen case studies and all three months, >>Kesha. I want to bring you back into the conversation. Talk a little bit about how MindUP ties into Accenture's cloud first strategy, your Accenture's CEO, Julie Sweet, um, has talked about post COVID leadership, requiring every business to become a cloud first business. Tell us a little bit about how this ethos is in Accenture and how you're sort of looking outward with it too. >>So Rebecca mine is the launch pad, uh, to a cloud first transformation for our clients. Uh, Accenture, see your jewelry suite, uh, shared the Accenture cloud first and our substantial investment demonstrate our commitment and is delivering greater value for our clients when they need it the most. And with the digital transformation requiring cloud at scale, you know, we're seeing that in the post COVID leadership, it requires that every business should become a cloud business. And my nap helps them get there by evaluating the cloud landscape, navigating the complexity, modeling architecting and simulating an optimal cloud solution for our clients. And as Justin was sharing a greener cloud. >>So Tristan, talk a little bit more about some of the real life use cases in terms of what are we, what are clients seeing? What are the results that they're having? >>Yes. Thank you, Rebecca. I would say two key things right around my notes. The first is the iterative process. Clients don't want to wait, um, until they get started, they want to get started and see what their journey is going to look like. And the second is fundamental acceleration, dependent make, as we talked about, has accelerated the need to move to cloud very quickly. And my nav is there to do that. So how do we do that? First is generating the business cases. Clients need to know in many cases that they have a business case by business case, we talk about the financial benefits, as well as the business outcomes, the green, green clot impact sustainability impacts with minus. We can build initial recommendations using a basic understanding of their environment and benchmarks in weeks versus months with indicative value savings in the millions of dollars arranges. >>So for example, very recently, we worked with a global oil and gas company, and in only two weeks, we're able to provide an indicative savings where $27 million over five years, this enabled the client to get started, knowing that there is a business case benefit and then iterate on it. And this iteration is, I would say the second point that is particularly important with my nav that we've seen in bank of clients, which is, um, any journey starts with an understanding of what is the application landscape and what are we trying to do with those, these initial assessments that used to take six to eight weeks are now taking anywhere from two to four weeks. So we're seeing a 40 to 50% reduction in the initial assessment, which gets clients started in their journey. And then finally we've had discussions with all of the hyperscalers to help partner with Accenture and leverage mine after prepared their detailed business case module as they're going to clients. And as they're accelerating the client's journey, so real results, real acceleration. And is there a journey? Do I have a business case and furthermore accelerating the journey once we are by giving the ability to work in iterative approach. >>I mean, it sounds as though that the company that clients and and employees are sort of saying, this is an amazing time savings look at what I can do here in, in so much in a condensed amount of time, but in terms of getting everyone on board, one of the things we talked about last time we met, uh, Tristin was just how much, uh, how one of the obstacles is getting people to sign on and the new technologies and new platforms. Those are often the obstacles and struggles that companies face. Have you found that at all? Or what is sort of the feedback that you're getting? >>Yeah, sorry. Yes. We clearly, there are always obstacles to a cloud journey. If there were an obstacles, all our clients would be, uh, already fully in the cloud. What man I gives the ability is to navigate through those, to start quickly. And then as we identify obstacles, we can simulate what things are going to look like. We can continue with certain parts of the journey while we deal with that obstacle. And it's a fundamental accelerator. Whereas in the past one, obstacle would prevent a class from starting. We can now start to address the obstacles one at a time while continuing and accelerating the contrary. That is the fundamental difference. >>Kishor I want to give you the final word here. Tell us a little bit about what is next for Accenture might have and what we'll be discussing next year at the Accenture executive summit, >>Rebecca, we are continuously evolving with our client needs and reinventing reinventing for the future. Well, mine has been toward advisor. Our plan is to help our clients reduce carbon footprint and again, migrate to a green cloud. Uh, and additionally, we're looking at, you know, two capabilities, uh, which include sovereign cloud advisor, uh, with clients, especially in, in Europe and others are under pressure to meet, uh, stringent data norms that Kristen was talking about. And the sovereign cloud advisor helps organization to create an architecture cloud architecture that complies with the green. Uh, I would say the data sovereignty norms that is out there. The other element is around data to cloud. We are seeing massive migration, uh, for, uh, for a lot of the data to cloud. And there's a lot of migration hurdles that come within that. Uh, we have expanded mine app to support assessment capabilities, uh, for, uh, assessing applications, infrastructure, but also covering the entire state, including data and the code level to determine the right cloud solution. So we are, we are pushing the boundaries on what mine app can do with mine. Have you created the ability to take the guesswork out of cloud, navigate the complexity? We are rolling risks costs, and we are, you know, achieving client's static business objectives while building a sustainable alerts with being cloud, >>Any platform that can take some of the guesswork out of the future. I am I'm on board with thank you so much, Tristin and Kishore. This has been a great conversation. Stay tuned for more of the cubes coverage of the Accenture executive summit. I'm Rebecca Knight.

>>Hi, I'm Frank's Luqman CEO of Snowflake. And welcome to the Snowflake Data Cloud Summit. I'd like to take the next few minutes to introduce you to >>the data cloud on why it matters to the modern enterprise. As an industry, we have struggled to mobilize our data, meaning that has been hard to put data into service of our enterprises. We're not living in a data economy and for most data central how we run our lives, our businesses and our institutions, every single interaction we have now, whether it's in social media, e commerce or any other service, engagement generates critical data. You multiply this out with the number of actors and transactions. The volume is overwhelming, growing in leaps and bounds every day. There was a time when data operations focused mostly on running reports and populating dashboards to inform people in the enterprise of what had happened on what was going on. And we still do a ton of that. But the emphasis is shifting to data driving operations from just data informing people. There is such a thing as the time value off data meaning that the faster data becomes available, the more impactful and valuable it ISS. As data ages, it loses much of its actionable value. Digital transformation is an overused term in our industry, but the snowflake it means the end to end automation of business processes, from selling to transacting to supporting to servicing customers. Digital processes are entirely disinter mediated in terms of people. Involvement in are driven into end by data. Of course, many businesses have both physical and digital processes, and they are >>intertwined. Think of retail, logistics, delivery services and so on. So a data centric operating discipline is no longer optional data operations Air now the beating heart >>of the modern enterprise that requires a massively scalable data platform talented data engineering and data science teams to fully exploit the technology that now is becoming available. Enter snowflake. Chances are that, you know, snowflake as a >>world class execution platform for a diverse set of workloads. Among them data warehousing, data engineering, data, lakes, data, science, data applications and data sharing. Snowflake was architected from scratch for cloud scale computing. No legacy technology was carried forward in the process. Snowflake reimagined many aspects of data management data operations. The result was a cloud data platform with massive scale, blistering performance, superior economics and world class data governance. Snowflake innovated on a number of vectors that wants to deliver this breakthrough. First scale and performance. Snowflake is completely designed for cloud scale computing, both in terms of data volume, computational performance and concurrent workload. Execution snowflake features numerous distinct innovations in this category, but none stands up more than the multi cluster shared stories. Architectural Removing the control plane from the individual cluster led to a dramatically different approach that has yielded tremendous benefits. But our customers love about Snowflake is to spin up new workloads without limitation and provisioned these workloads with his little or as much compute as they see fit. No longer do they fear hidden capacity limits or encroaching on other workloads. Customers can have also scale storage and compute independent of each other, something that was not possible before second utility and elasticity. Not only can snowflake customer spin up much capacity for as long as they deem necessary. Three. Utility model in church, they only get charged for what they consumed by the machine. Second, highly granular measurement of utilization. Ah, lot of the economic impact of snowflake comes from the fact that customers no longer manage capacity. What they do now is focused on consumption. In snowflake is managing the capacity. Performance and economics now go hand in hand because faster is now also cheaper. Snowflake contracts with the public cloud vendors for capacity at considerable scale, which then translates to a good economic value at the retail level is, well, third ease of use and simplicity. Snowflake is a platform that scales from the smallest workloads to the largest data estates in the world. It is unusual in this offer industry to have a platform that controversy the entire spectrum of scale, a database technology snowflake is dramatically simple fire. To compare to previous generations, our founders were bent on making snowflake, a self managing platform that didn't require expert knowledge to run. The role of the Deba has evolved into snowflake world, more focused on data model insights and business value, not tuning and keeping the infrastructure up and running. This has expanded the marketplace to nearly any scale. No job too small or too large. Fourth, multi cloud and Cross Cloud or snowflake was first available on AWS. It now also runs very successfully on mark yourself. Azure and Google Cloud Snowflake is a cloud agnostic platform, meaning that it doesn't know what it's running on. Snowflake completely abstracts the underlying cloud platform. The user doesn't need to see or touch it directly and also does not receive a separate bill from the cloud vendor for capacity consumed by snowflake. Being multi cloud capable customers have a choice and also the flexibility to change over time snowflakes. Relationships with Amazon and Microsoft also allow customers to transact through their marketplaces and burned down their cloud commit with their snowflakes. Spend Snowflake is also capable of replicating across cloud regions and cloud platforms. It's not unusual to see >>the same snowflake data on more than one public cloud at the time. Also, for disaster recovery purposes, it is desirable to have access to snowflake on a completely different public cloud >>platform. Fifth, data Security and privacy, security and privacy are commonly grouped under the moniker of data governance. As a highly managed cloud data platform, snowflake designed and deploys a comprehensive and coherent security model. While privacy requirements are newer and still emerging in many areas, snowflake as a platform is evolving to help customers steer clear from costly violations. Our data sharing model has already enabled many customers to exchange data without surrendering custody of data. Key privacy concerns There's no doubt that the strong governance and compliance framework is critical to extracting you analytical value of data directly following the session. Police Stay tuned to hear from Anita Lynch at Disney Streaming services about how >>to date a cloud enables data governance at Disney. The world beat a >>path to our door snowflake unleashed to move from UN promised data centers to the public cloud platforms, notably AWS, Azure and Google Cloud. Snowflake now has thousands of enterprise customers averaging over 500 million queries >>today across all customer accounts, and it's one of the fastest growing enterprise software companies in a generation. Our recent listing on the New York Stock Exchange was built is the largest software AIPO in history. But the data cloth conversation is bigger. There is another frontier workload. Execution is a huge part of it, but it's not the entire story. There is another elephant in the room, and that is that The world's data is incredibly fragmented in siloed, across clouds of old sorts and data centers all over the place. Basically, data lives in a million places, and it's incredibly hard to analyze data across the silos. Most intelligence analytics and learning models deploy on single data sets because it has been next to impossible to analyze data across sources. Until now, Snowflake Data Cloud is a data platform shared by all snowflake users. If you are on snowflake, you are already plugged into it. It's like being part of a Global Data Federation data orbit, if you will, where all other data can now be part of your scope. Historically, technology limitations led us to build systems and services that siloed the data behind systems, software and network perimeters. To analyze data across silos, we resorted to building special purpose data warehouses force fed by multiple data sources empowered by expensive proprietary hardware. The scale limitations lead to even more silos. The onslaught of the public cloud opened the gateway to unleashing the world's data for access for sharing a monetization. But it didn't happen. Pretty soon they were new silos, different public clouds, regions within the and a huge collection of SAS applications hoarding their data all in their own formats on the East NC ations whole industries exist just to move data from A to B customer behavior precipitated the silo ing of data with what we call a war clothes at a time mentality. Customers focused on the applications in isolation of one another and then deploy data platforms for their workload characteristics and not much else, thereby throwing up new rules between data. Pretty soon, we don't just have our old Silas, but new wants to content with as well. Meanwhile, the promise of data science remains elusive. With all this silo ing and bunkering of data workload performance is necessary but not sufficient to enable the promise of data science. We must think about unfettered data access with ease, zero agency and zero friction. There's no doubt that the needs of data science and data engineering should be leading, not an afterthought. And those needs air centered on accessing and analyzing data across sources. It is now more the norm than the exception that data patterns transcend data sources. Data silos have no meaning to data science. They are just remnants of legacy computing. Architectures doesn't make sense to evaluate strictly on the basis of existing workloads. The world changes, and it changes quickly. So how does the data cloud enabled unfettered data access? It's not just a function of being in the public cloud. Public Cloud is an enabler, no doubt about it. But it introduces new silos recommendation by cloud, platform by cloud region by Data Lake and by data format, it once again triggered technical grandstands and a lot of programming to bring a single analytical perspective to a diversity of data. Data was not analytics ready, not optimized for performance or efficiency and clearly lacking on data governance. Snowflake, address these limitations, thereby combining great execution with great data >>access. But, snowflake, we can have the best of both. So how does it all work when you join Snowflake and have your snowflake account? You don't just >>avail yourself of unlimited stories. And compute resource is along with a world class execution platform. You also plug into the snowflake data cloud, meaning that old snowflake accounts across clouds, regions and geography are part of a single snowflake data universe. That is the data clouds. It is based on our global data sharing architectures. Any snowflake data can be exposed and access by any other snowflake user. It's seamless and frictionless data is generally not copied. Her moves but access in place, subject to the same snowflake governance model. Accessing the data cloth can be a tactical one on one sharing relationship. For example, imagine how retailer would share data with a consumer back. It's good company, but then it easily proliferate from 1 to 1. Too many too many. The data cloud has become a beehive of data supply and demand. It has attracted hundreds of professional data listings to the Snowflake Data Marketplace, which fuels the data cloud with a rich supply of options. For example, our partner Star Schema, listed a very detailed covert 19 incident and fatality data set on the Snowflake Data Marketplace. It became an instant hit with snowflake customers. Scar schema is not raw data. It is also platform optimize, meaning that it was analytics ready for all snowflake accounts. Snowflake users were accessing, joining and overlaying this new data within a short time of it becoming available. That is the power of platform in financial services. It's common to see snowflake users access data from snowflake marketplace listings like fax set and Standard and Poor's on, then messed it up against for example. Salesforce data There are now over 100 suppliers of data listings on the snowflake marketplace That is, in addition to thousands of enterprise and institutional snowflake users with their own data sets. Best part of the snowflake data cloud is this. You don't need to do or buy anything different. If your own snowflake you're already plugged into the data clouds. A whole world data access options awaits you on data silos. Become a thing of the past, enjoy today's presentations. By the end of it, you should have a better sense in a bigger context for your choices of data platforms. Thank you for joining us.

(gentle music) >> From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCube Conversation. >> Hi everybody, this is Dave Vellante, we're back at Cube on Cloud, and with me is Muddu Sudhakar. He's a long time alum of theCube, a technologist and executive, a serial entrepreneur and an investor. Welcome my friend, good to see you. >> Good to see you, Dave. Pleasure to be with you. Happy elections, I guess. >> Yeah, yeah. So I wanted to start, this work from home, pivot's been amazing, and you've seen the enterprise collaboration explode. I wrote a piece a couple months ago, looking at valuations of various companies, right around the snowflake IPO, I want to ask you about that, but I was looking at the valuations of various companies, at Spotify, and Shopify, and of course Zoom was there. And I was looking at just simple revenue multiples, and I said, geez, Zoom actually looks, might look undervalued, which is crazy, right? And of course the stock went up after that, and you see teams, Microsoft Teams, and Microsoft doing a great job across the board, we've written about that, you're seeing Webex is exploding, I mean, what do you make of this whole enterprise collaboration play? >> No, I think the look there is a trend here, right? So I think this probably trend started before COVID, but COVID is going to probably accelerate this whole digital transformation, right? People are going to work remotely a lot more, not everybody's going to come back to the offices even after COVID, so I think this whole collaboration through Slack, and Zoom, and Microsoft Teams and Webex, it's going to be the new game now, right? Both the video, audio and chat solutions, that's really going to help people like eyeballs. You're not going to spend time on all four of them, right? It's like everyday from a consumer side, you're going to spend time on your Gmail, Facebook, maybe Twitter, maybe Instagram, so like in the consumer side, on your personal life, you have something on the enterprise. The eyeballs are going to be in these platforms. >> Yeah. Well. >> But we're not going to take everything. >> Well, So you are right, there's a permanence to this, and I got a lot of ground to cover with you. And I always like our conversations mood because you tell it like it is, I'm going to stay on that work from home pivot. You know a lot about security, but you've seen three big trends, like mega trends in security, Endpoint, Identity Access Management, and Cloud Security, you're seeing this in the stock prices of companies like CrowdStrike, Zscaler, Okta- >> Right >> Sailpoint- >> Right, I mean, they exploded, as a result of the pandemic, and I think I'm inferring from your comment that you see that as permanent, but that's a real challenge from a security standpoint. What's the impact of Cloud there? >> No, it isn't impact but look, first is all the services required to be Cloud, right? See, the whole ideas for it to collaborate and do these things. So you cannot be running an application, like you can't be running conference and SharePoint oN-Prem, and try to on a Zoom and MS teams. So that's why, if you look at Microsoft is very clever, they went with Office 365, SharePoint 365, now they have MS Teams, so I think that Cloud is going to drive all these workloads that you have been talking about a lot, right? You and John have been saying this for years now. The eruption of Cloud and SAS services are the vehicle to drive this next-generation collaboration. >> You know what's so cool? So Cloud obviously is the topic, I wonder how you look at the last 10 years of Cloud, and maybe we could project forward, I mean the big three Cloud vendors, they're running it like $20 billion a quarter, and they're growing collectively, 35, 40% clips, so we're really approaching a hundred billion dollars for these three. And you hear stats like only 20% of the workloads are in the public Cloud, so it feels like we're just getting started. How do you look at the impact of Cloud on the market, as you say, the last 10 years, and what do you expect going forward? >> No, I think it's very fascinating, right? So I remember when theCube, you guys are talking about 10 years back, now it's been what? More than 10 years, 15 years, since AWS came out with their first S3 service back in 2006. >> Right. >> Right? so I think look, Cloud is going to accelerate even more further. The areas is going to accelerate is for different reasons. I think now you're seeing the initial days, it's all about startups, initial workloads, Dev test and QA test, now you're talking about real production workloads are moving towards Cloud, right? Initially it was backup, we really didn't care for backup they really put there. Now you're going to have Cloud health primary services, your primary storage will be there, it's not going to be an EMC, It's not going to be a ETAP storage, right? So workloads are going to shift from the business applications, and this business App again, will be running on the Cloud, and I'll make another prediction, make customer service and support. Customer service and support, again, we should be running on the Cloud. You're not want to run the thing on a Dell server, or an IBM server, or an HP server, with your own hosted environment. That model is not because there's no economies of scale. So to your point, what will drive Cloud for the next 10 years, will be economies of scale. Where can you take the cost? How can I save money? If you don't move to the Cloud, you won't save money. So all those workloads are going to go to the Cloud are people who really want to save, like global gradual custom, right? If you stay on the ASP model, a hosted, you're not going to save your costs, your costs will constantly go up from a SAS perspective. >> So that doesn't bode well for all the On-prem guys, and you hear a lot of the vendors that don't own a Cloud that talk about repatriation, but the numbers don't support that. So what do those guys do? I mean, they're talking multi-Cloud, of course they're talking hybrid, that's IBM's big play, how do you see it? >> I think, look, see there, to me, multi-Cloud makes sense, right? You don't want one vendor that you never want to get, so having Amazon, Microsoft, Google, it gives them a multi-Cloud. Even hybrid Cloud does make sense, right? There'll be some workloads. It's like, we are still running On-prem environment, we still have mainframe, so it's never going to be a hundred percent, but I would say the majority, your question is, can we get to 60, 70, 80% workers in the next 10 years? I think you will. I think by 2025, more than 78% of the Cloud Migration by the next five years, 70% of workload for enterprise will be on the Cloud. The remaining 25, maybe Hybrid, maybe On-prem, but I get panics, really doesn't matter. You have saved and part of your business is running on the Cloud. That's your cost saving, that's where you'll see the economies of scale, and that's where all the growth will happen. >> So square the circle for me, because again, you hear the stat on the IDC stat, IBM Ginni Rometty puts it out there a lot that only 20% of the workloads are in the public Cloud, everything else is On-prem, but it's not a zero sum game, right? I mean the Cloud native stuff is growing like crazy, the On-prem stuff is flat to down, so what's going to happen? When you talk about 70% of the workloads will be in the Cloud, do you see those mission critical apps and moving into the car, I mean the insurance companies going to put their claims apps in the Cloud, or the financial services companies going to put their mission critical workloads in the Cloud, or they just going to develop new stuff that's Cloud native that is sort of interacts with the On-prem. How do you see that playing out? >> Yeah, no, I think absolutely, I think a very good question. So two things will happen. I think if you take an enterprise, right? Most businesses what they'll do is the workloads that they should not be running On-prem, they'll move it up. So obviously things like take, as I said, I use the word SharePoint, right? SharePoint and conference, all the knowledge stuff is still running on people's data centers. There's no reason. I understand, I've seen statistics that 70, 80% of the On-prem for SharePoint will move to SharePoint on the Cloud. So Microsoft is going to make tons of money on that, right? Same thing, databases, right? Whether it's CQL server, whether there is Oracle database, things that you are running as a database, as a Cloud, we move to the Cloud. Whether that is posted in Oracle Cloud, or you're running Oracle or Mongo DB, or Dynamo DB on AWS or SQL server Microsoft, that's going to happen. Then what you're talking about is really the App concept, the applications themselves, the App server. Is the App server is going to run On-prem, how much it's going to laureate outside? There may be a hybrid Cloud, like for example, Kafka. I may use a Purse running on a Kafka as a service, or I may be using Elasticsearch for my indexing on AWS or Google Cloud, but I may be running my App locally. So there'll be some hybrid place, but what I would say is for every application, 75% of your Comprende will be on the Cloud. So think of it like the Dev. So even for the On-prem app, you're not going to be a 100 percent On-prem. The competent, the billing materials will move to the Cloud, your Purse, your storage, because if you put it On-prem, you need to add all this, you need to have all the whole things to buy it and hire the people, so that's what is going to happen. So from a competent perspective, 70% of your bill of materials will move to the Cloud, even for an On-prem application. >> So, Of course, the susification of the industry in the last decade and in my three favorite companies last decade, you've worked for two of them, Tableau, ServiceNow, and Splunk. I want to ask you about those, but I'm interested in the potential disruption there. I mean, you've got these SAS companies, Salesforce of course is another one, but they can't get started in 1999. What do you see happening with those? I mean, we're basically building these sort of large SAS, platforms, now. Do you think that the Cloud native world that developers can come at this from an angle where they can disrupt those companies, or are they too entrenched? I mean, look at service now, I mean, I don't know, $80 billion market capital where they are, they bigger than Workday, I mean, just amazing how much they've grown and you feel like, okay, nothing can stop them, but there's always disruption in this industry, what are your thoughts on that. >> Not very good with, I think there'll be disrupted. So to me actually to your point, ServiceNow is now close to a 100 billion now, 95 billion market coverage, crazy. So from evaluation perspective, so I think the reason they'll be disrupted is that the SAS vendors that you talked about, ServiceNow, and all this plan, most of these services, they're truly not a multi-tenant or what do you call the Cloud Native. And that is the Accenture. So because of that, they will not be able to pass the savings back to the enterprises. So the cost economics, the economics that the Cloud provides because of the multi tenancy ability will not. The second reason there'll be disrupted is AI. So far, we talked about Cloud, but AI is the core. So it's not really Cloud Native, Dave, I look at the AI in a two-piece. AI is going to change, see all the SAS vendors were created 20 years back, if you remember, was an operator typing it, I don't respond administered we'll type a Splunk query. I don't need a human to type a query anymore, system will actually find it, that's what the whole security game has changed, right? So what's going to happen is if you believe in that, that AI, your score will disrupt all the SAS vendors, so one angle SAS is going to have is a Cloud. That's where you make the Cloud will take up because a SAS application will be Cloudified. Being SAS is not Cloud, right? Second thing is SAS will be also, I call it, will be AI-fied. So AI and machine learning will be trying to drive at the core so that I don't need that many licenses. I don't need that many humans. I don't need that many administrators to manage, I call them the tuners. Once you get a driverless car, you don't need a thousand tuners to tune your Tesla, or Google Waymo car. So the same philosophy will happen is your Dev Apps, your administrators, your service management, people that you need for service now, and these products, Zendesk with AI, will tremendously will disrupt. >> So you're saying, okay, so yeah, I was going to ask you, won't the SAS vendors, won't they be able to just put, inject AI into their platforms, and I guess I'm inferring saying, yeah, but a lot of the problems that they're solving, are going to go away because of AI, is that right? And automation and RPA and things of that nature, is that right? >> Yes and no. So I'll tell you what, sorry, you have asked a very good question, let's answer, let me rephrase that question. What you're saying is, "Why can't the existing SAS vendors do the AI?" >> Yes, right. >> Right, >> And there's a reason they can't do it is their pricing model is by number of seats. So I'm not going to come to Dave, and say, come on, come pay me less money. It's the same reason why a board and general lover build an electric car. They're selling 10 million gasoline cars. There's no incentive for me, I'm not going to do any AI, I'm going to put, I'm not going to come to you and say, hey, buy me a hundred less license next year from it. So that is one reason why AI, even though these guys do any AI, it's going to be just so I call it, they're going to, what do you call it, a whitewash, kind of like you put some paint brush on it, trying to show you some AI you did from a marketing dynamics. But at the core, if you really implement the AI with you take the driver out, how are you going to change the pricing model? And being a public company, you got to take a hit on the pricing model and the price, and it's going to have a stocking part. So that, to your earlier question, will somebody disrupt them? The person who is going to disrupt them, will disrupt them on the pricing model. >> Right. So I want to ask you about that, because we saw a Snowflake, and it's IPO, we were able to pour through its S-1, and they have a different pricing model. It's a true Cloud consumption model, Whereas of course, most SAS companies, they're going to lock you in for at least one year term, maybe more, and then, you buy the license, you got to pay X. If you, don't use it, you still got to pay for it. Snowflake's different, actually they have a different problem, that people are using it too much and the sea is driving the CFO crazy because the bill is going up and up and up, but to me, that's the right model, It's just like the Amazon model, if you can justify it, so how do you see the pricing, that consumption model is actually, you're seeing some of the On-prem guys at HPE, Dell, they're doing as a service. They're kind of taking a page out of the last decade SAS model, so I think pricing is a real tricky one, isn't it? >> No, you nailed it, you nailed it. So I think the way in which the Snowflake there, how the disruptors are data warehouse, that disrupted the open source vendors too. Snowflake distributed, imagine the playbook, you disrupted something as the $ 0, right? It's an open source with Cloudera, Hortonworks, Mapper, that whole big data that you want me to, or that market is this, that disrupting data warehouses like Netezza, Teradata, and the charging more money, they're making more money and disrupting at $0, because the pricing models by consumption that you talked about. CMT is going to happen in the service now, Zen Desk, well, 'cause their pricing one is by number of seats. People are going to say, "How are my users are going to ask?" right? If you're an employee help desk, you're back to your original health collaborative. I may be on Slack, I could be on zoom, I'll maybe on MS Teams, I'm going to ask by using usage model on Slack, tools by employees to service now is the pricing model that people want to pay for. The more my employees use it, the more value I get. But I don't want to pay by number of seats, so the vendor, who's going to figure that out, and that's where I look, if you know me, I'm right over as I started, that's what I've tried to push that model look, I love that because that's the core of how you want to change the new game. >> I agree. I say, kill me with that problem, I mean, some people are trying to make it a criticism, but you hit on the point. If you pay more, it's only because you're getting more value out of it. So I wanted to flip the switch here a little bit and take a customer angle. Something that you've been on all sides. And I want to talk a little bit about strategies, you've been a strategist, I guess, once a strategist, always a strategist. How should organizations be thinking about their approach to Cloud, it's cost different for different industries, but, back when the cube started, financial services Cloud was a four-letter word. But of course the age of company is going to matter, but what's the framework for figuring out your Cloud strategy to get to your 70% and really take advantage of the economics? Should I be Mono Cloud, Multi-Cloud, Multi-vendor, what would you advise? >> Yeah, no, I mean, I mean, I actually call it the tech stack. Actually you and John taught me that what was the tech stack, like the lamp stack, I think there is a new Cloud stack needs to come, and that I think the bottomline there should be... First of all, anything with storage should be in the Cloud. I mean, if you want to start, whether you are, financial, doesn't matter, there's no way. I come from cybersecurity side, I've seen it. Your attackers will be more with insiders than being on the Cloud, so storage has to be in the Cloud and encompass compute whoever it is. If you really want to use containers and Kubernetes, it has to be in the public Cloud, leverage that have the computer on their databases. That's where it can be like if your data is so strong, maybe run it On-prem, maybe have it on a hosted model for when it comes to database, but there you have a choice between hybrid Cloud and public Cloud choice. Then on top when it comes to App, the app itself, you can run locally or anywhere, the App and database. Now the areas that you really want to go after to migrate is look at anything that's an enterprise workload that you don't need people to manage it. You want your own team to move up in the career. You don't want thousand people looking at... you don't want to have a, for example, IT administrators to call central people to the people to manage your compute storage. That workload should be more, right? You already saw Sierra moved out to Salesforce. We saw collaboration already moved out. Zoom is not running locally. You already saw SharePoint with knowledge management mode up, right? With a box, drawbacks, you name anything. The next global mode is a SAS workloads, right? I think Workday service running there, but work data will go into the Cloud. I bet at some point Zendesk, ServiceNow, then either they put it on the public Cloud, or they have to create a product and public Cloud. To your point, these public Cloud vendors are at $2 trillion market cap. They're they're bigger than the... I call them nation States. >> Yeah, >> So I'm servicing though. I mean, there's a 2 trillion market gap between Amazon and Azure, I'm not going to compete with them. So I want to take this workload to run it there. So all these vendors, if you see that's where Shandra from Adobe is pushing this right, Adobe, Workday, Anaplan, all the SAS vendors we'll move them into the public Cloud within these vendors. So those workloads need to move out, right? So that all those things will start, then you'll start migrating, but I call your procurement. That's where the RPA comes in. The other thing that we didn't talk about, back to your first question, what is the next 10 years of Cloud will be RPA? That third piece to Cloud is RPA because if you have your systems On-prem, I can't automate them. I have to do a VPN into your house there and then try to automate your systems, or your procurement, et cetera. So all these RPA vendors are still running On-prem, most of them, whether it's UI path automation anywhere. So the Cloud should be where the brain should be. That's what I call them like the octopus analogy, the brain is in the Cloud, the tentacles are everywhere, they should manage it. But if my tentacles have to do a VPN with your house to manage it, I'm always will have failures. So if you look at the why RPA did not have the growth, like the Snowflake, like the Cloud, because they are running it On-prem, most of them still. 80% of the RP revenue is On-prem, running On-prem, that needs to be called clarified. So AI, RPA and the SAS, are the three reasons Cloud will take off. >> Awesome. Thank you for that. Now I want to flip the switch again. You're an investor or a multi-tool player here, but so if you're, let's say you're an ecosystem player, and you're kind of looking at the landscape as you're in an investor, of course you've invested in the Cloud, because the Cloud is where it's at, but you got to be careful as an ecosystem player to pick a spot that both provides growth, but allows you to have a moat as, I mean, that's why I'm really curious to see how Snowflake's going to compete because they're competing with AWS, Microsoft, and Google, unlike, Frank, when he was at service now, he was competing with BMC and with on-prem and he crushed it, but the competitors are much more capable here, but it seems like they've got, maybe they've got a moat with MultiCloud, and that whole data sharing thing, we'll see. But, what about that? Where are the opportunities? Where's that white space? And I know there's a lot of white space, but what's the framework to look at, from an investor standpoint, or even a CEO standpoint, where you want to put place your bets. >> No, very good question, so look, I did something. We talk as an investor in the board with many companies, right? So one thing that says as an investor, if you come back and say, I want to create a next generation Docker or a computer, there's no way nobody's going to invest. So that we can motor off, even if you want to do object storage or a block storage, I mean, I've been an investor board member of so many storage companies, there's no way as an industry, I'll write a check for a compute or storage, right? If you want to create a next generation network, like either NetSuite, or restart Juniper, Cisco, there is no way. But if you come back and say, I want to create a next generation Viper for remote working environments, where AI is at the core, I'm interested in that, right? So if you look at how the packets are dropped, there's no intelligence in either not switching today. The packets come, I do it. The intelligence is not built into the network with AI level. So if somebody comes with an AI, what good is all this NVD, our GPS, et cetera, if you cannot do wire speed, packet inspection, looking at the content and then route the traffic. If I see if it's a video package, but in UN Boston, there's high interview day of they should be loading our package faster, because you are a premium ISP. That intelligence has not gone there. So you will see, and that will be a bad people will happen in the network, switching, et cetera, right? So that is still an angle. But if you work and it comes to platform services, remember when I was at Pivotal and VMware, all models was my boss, that would, yes, as a platform, service is a game already won by the Cloud guys. >> Right. (indistinct) >> Silicon Valley Investors, I don't think you want to invest in past services, right? I mean, you might come with some lecture edition database to do some updates, there could be some game, let's say we want to do a time series database, or some metrics database, there's always some small angle, but the opportunity to go create a national database there it's very few. So I'm kind of eliminating all the black spaces, right? >> Yeah. >> We have the white spaces that comes in is the SAS level. Now to your point, if I'm Amazon, I'm going to compete with Snowflake, I have Redshift. So this is where at some point, these Cloud platforms, I call them aircraft carriers. They're not going to stay on the aircraft carriers, they're going to own the land as well. So they're going to move up to the SAS space. The question is you want to create a SAS service like CRM. They are not going to create a CRM like service, they may not create a sales force and service now, but if you're going to add a data warehouse, I can very well see Azure, Google, and AWS, going to create something to compute a Snowflake. Why would I not? It's so close to my database and data warehouse, I already have Redshift. So that's going to be nightlights, same reason, If you look at Netflix, you have a Netflix and you have Amazon prime. Netflix runs on Amazon, but you have Amazon prime. So you have the same model, you have Snowflake, and you'll have Redshift. The both will help each other, there'll be a... What do you call it? Coexistence will happen. But if you really want to invest, you want to invest in SAS companies. You do not want to be investing in a compliment players. You don't want to a feature. >> Yeah, that's great, I appreciate that perspective. And I wonder, so obviously Microsoft play in SAS, Google's got G suite. And I wonder if people often ask the Andy Jassy, you're going to move up the stack, you got to be an application, a SAS vendor, and you never say never with Atavist, But I wonder, and we were talking to Jerry Chen about this, years ago on theCube, and his angle was that Amazon will play, but they'll play through developers. They'll enable developers, and they'll participate, they'll take their, lick off the cone. So it's going to be interesting to see how directly Amazon plays, but at some point you got Tam expansion, you got to play in that space. >> Yeah, I'll give you an example of knowing, I got acquired by a couple of times by EMC. So I learned a lot from Joe Tucci and Paul Merage over the years. see Paul and Joe, what they did is to look at how 20 years, and they are very close to Boston in your area, Joe, what games did is they used to sell storage, but you know what he did, he went and bought the Apps to drive them. He bought like Legato, he bought Documentum, he bought Captiva, if you remember how he acquired all these companies as a services, he bought VMware to drive that. So I think the good angle that Microsoft has is, I'm a SAS player, I have dynamics, I have CRM, I have SharePoint, I have Collaboration, I have Office 365, MS Teams for users, and then I have the platform as Azure. So I think if I'm Amazon, (indistinct). I got to own the apps so that I can drive this workforce on my platform. >> Interesting. >> Just going to developers, like I know Jerry Chan, he was my peer a BMF. I don't think just literally to developers and that model works in open source, but the open source game is pretty much gone, and not too many companies made money. >> Well, >> Most companies pretty much gone. >> Yeah, he's right. Red hats not bad idea. But it's very interesting what you're saying there. And so, hey, its why Oracle wants to have Tiktok, running on their platform, right? I mean, it's going to. (laughing) It's going to drive that further integration. I wanted to ask you something, you were talking about, you wouldn't invest in storage or compute, but I wonder, and you mentioned some commentary about GPU's. Of course the videos has been going crazy, but they're now saying, okay, how do we expand our Team, they make the acquisition of arm, et cetera. What about this DPU thing, if you follow that, that data processing unit where they're like hyper dis-aggregation and then they reaggregate, and as an offload and really to drive data centric workloads. Have you looked at that at all? >> I did, I think, and that's a good angle. So I think, look, it's like, it goes through it. I don't know if you remember in your career, we have seen it. I used to get Silicon graphics. I saw the first graphic GPU, right? That time GPU was more graphic processor unit, >> Right, yeah, work stations. >> So then become NPUs at work processing units, right? There was a TCP/IP office offloading, if you remember right, there was like vector processing unit. So I think every once in a while the industry, recreated this separate unit, as a co-processor to the main CPU, because main CPU's inefficient, and it makes sense. And then Google created TPU's and then we have the new world of the media GPU's, now we have DPS all these are good, but what's happening is, all these are driving for machine learning, AI for the training period there. Training period Sometimes it's so long with the workloads, if you can cut down, it makes sense. >> Yeah. >> Because, but the question is, these aren't so specialized in nature. I can't use it for everything. >> Yup. >> I want Ideally, algorithms to be paralyzed, I want the training to be paralyzed, I want so having deep use and GPS are important, I think where I want to see them as more, the algorithm, there should be more investment from the NVIDIA's and these guys, taking the algorithm to be highly paralyzed them. (indistinct) And I think that still has not happened in industry yet. >> All right, so we're pretty much out of time, but what are you doing these days? Where are you spending your time, are you still in Stealth, give us a little glimpse. >> Yeah, no, I'm out of the Stealth, I'm actually the CEO of Aisera now, Aisera, obviously I invested with them, but I'm the CEO of Aisero. It's funded by Menlo ventures, Norwest, True, along with Khosla ventures and Ram Shriram is a big investor. Robin's on the board of Google, so these guys, look, we are going out to the collaboration game. How do you automate customer service and support for employees and then users, right? In this whole game, we talked about the Zoom, Slack and MS Teams, that's what I'm spending time, I want to create next generation service now. >> Fantastic. Muddu, I always love having you on you, pull punches, you tell it like it is, that you're a great visionary technologist. Thanks so much for coming on theCube, and participating in our program. >> Dave, it's always a pleasure speaking to you sir. Thank you. >> Okay. Keep it right there, there's more coming from Cuba and Cloud right after this break. (slow music)

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS Public Sector Online brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's Virtual coverage of Amazon Web Services, AWS Public Sector Summit Online. We couldn't be there in person, but we're doing remote interviews. I'm John Furrier, your host of the cube. We've got a great segment from Asia Pacific on the other side of the world from California, about social impact, transforming teaching and learning with Cloud technology we've got three great guests. Hugo Richard is the CEO and co-founder of Dystech and Janine Teo CEO and founder of Solve Education founders and CEOs of startups is great Vincent Quah is the APAC Regional Head of Education, Healthcare Not-For-Profit and Research for AWS. (indistinct) big program. Vincent, thanks for coming on Janine and Hugo thank you for joining. >> Thanks for having us, John. >> Thanks John So, we're not there in person. We're doing remote interviews. I'm really glad to have this topic because now more than ever social change is happening. This next generation is building software and applications to solve big problems. And it's not like yesterday's problems, they're today's problems and learning and mentoring and starting companies are all happening virtually, digitally, and also in person. So the world's changing. So I got to ask you, Vincent we'll start with you Amazon, obviously big (indistinct) culture. You got two great founders here and CEOs doing some great stuff. Tell us a little bit what's going on at APAC, a lot of activity. I mean re-invent and the summits out there are really popular. Give us an update on what's happening. >> Thank you, thank you for the question, John. I think it's extremely exciting, especially in today's context, that we are seeing so much activities, especially in the education technology sector. One of the challenges that we saw from our education technology customers is that they're always looking for help and support in many of the innovation that they're trying to develop. The second area of observation that we had was that they are always alone with very limited resources and they usually do not know where to look for in terms of support and in terms of not who they can reach out to from a community standpoint, that is actually how we started and developed this program called AWS EdStart. It is a program specifically for education technology companies that are targeting, delivering innovative education solutions for the education sector. And we bring specific benefits to these education technology companies when they joined the program, AWS EdStart. Yeah, three specific areas, one is that we support them with technical support, which is really, really key trying to help them navigate in the various ranges of AWS services that allows them to develop innovative services. The second area is leaking them and building a community of like-minded education technology founders, and linking them also to investors and VCs. And lastly, of course, in supporting innovation, we support them with a bit of AWS Cloud credits, promotional credits for them so that they can go and experiment and develop innovations for their customers. >> That's great stuff I want to get into that program a little bit further because I think, you know, that's a great example of kind of benefits AWS provides (indistinct) free credits or, no one is going to turn away free credits. We'll take the free credits all the time, all day long, but really it's about the innovation. Janine I want to get your thoughts. How was Solve Education born? What problems were you solving? What made you start this company and tell us your story. >> Thank you so much for the question. So actually my co-founder was invited to speak at an African Innovation Forum couple of years back, and the topic that he was sharing with, how can Africa skip over the industrialization phase and go direct to the knowledge economy and that discussion went towards, in order to have access to the knowledge commonly you need knowledge and how do you get knowledge well through education. So that's when everybody in the Congress was a bit stuck, right? And the advice was in order to scale fast, we need to figure out a way to not while, you know, engaging the government and schools and teachers, but not depend on them for the success of the education initiative. So, and that's was what (indistinct) walk away from the conference. And when we met in Jakarta, we started talking about that also. So while I'm Singaporean, I worked in many developing countries. And the problem that we're trying to solve is it might be shocking to you, but UNESCO recently published over 600 million children and youth are not learning. And that is a big number globally, right? And out of all the SDGs per se, from UN, education, and perhaps I'm biased, because I'm a computer engineer, but I see that education is the only one that can be solved by transforming (indistinct) versus the other SDGs like, you know, poverty or hunger, right? Actually require big amount of logistic coordination and so on. So we saw a very interesting trend with mobile phones, particularly smart phones becoming more and more ubiquitous. And with that, we saw a very interesting opportunity for us to disseminate education through mobile technology. So we in self-education elevate people on a public through providing education and employment opportunities, (indistinct) on tech. And we.. our vision is to enable people to empower themselves. And what we do is that we build an open platform that provides everyone active education. >> Hugo How about your company? What problem are you solving? How did it all get started? Tell us your vision. >> Thanks, John. Well, look, it all started with a joke, one of the co-founder, Matthew, had a, he has a child who has severe learning disorder and dyslexia, and he made a joke one day about having (indistinct) that could support those kids. And I took the joke seriously. So we started sitting down and, you know, trying to figure out how we can make this happen. So it turns out that dyslexia is the most common learning disorder in the world. We have an estimated 10 to 20% of the worldwide population with the disorder, due to in context, that's between 750 million up to 1.5 billion individuals with that learning disorder. And so where we sort of try and tackle the problem is that we've identified that there's two key things for children with dyslexia. The first one is that knowing that it is dyslexia, meaning being assessed. And the second one is, so what, what do we do about it? And so given all expertise in data science and AI, we clearly saw an opportunity of sort of building something that could assess individual children and adults with dyslexia. The big problem with the assessment is that it's very expensive. We've met parents in the U.S. specifically who paid up to 6,000 U.S. Dollars for a diagnosis with an educational psychologist. On the other side, we have parents who wait 12 months before having a spot. So what we saw clearly is that the observable symptom of dyslexia are reading, and everyone has a smartphone and (indistinct) from smartphone is actually really good to record your voice. So we started collecting audio recordings from children and adults who have been diagnosed with dyslexia. And we then try to model and to recognize the likelihood of dyslexia by analyzing audio recording. So in theory, it's like diagnosed dyslexic, helping other undiagnosed dyslexic being diagnosed. So we have now (indistinct) them. That can take about 10 minutes, which requires no prior training costs, 20 U.S. Dollar, and anyone can use it to assess someone's likelihood of dyslexia. >> You know, this is the kind of thing that really changes the game because you also have learning for questions that are nonlinear and different. You've got YouTube, you've got videos, you have knowledge bases, you've got community. Vincent mentioned that Janine, you mentioned, you know, making the bits of driver and changing technology. This is the kind of thing that seems obvious now as look at it, but now you've got to put it into action. So, you know, one of the benefits of Cloud on AWS, we'll give a plug for Vincent's company here is that you can move faster. And that's something that Andy Jassy always talks about and Teresa Carlson, being builders and moving fast, but you got to build it. So Janine and Hugo, please take a minute to explain, okay, you got the idea, you're kicking the tires, you're putting it together. Now you've got to actually start writing code. What happens next? Janine, we'll start with you. >> Well, what happens next? Okay. So for us, we know education technology is not new, right. And education games are not new, but before we even started, we look at what's available and we quickly realized that the digital divide is very real, most technology out there first are not designed for (indistinct) devices, and also not designed for people who do not have internet at home. so with just that assessment, we quickly realized we need to do something about, and that's something that problem is. One is just one part of the whole puzzle. There's two other very important things. One is advocacy. Can we prove that we can teach through mobile devices? And then the second thing is motivation. And again, it's also really obvious, but, and people might think that, you know, marginalized communities are super motivated to learn. Well, I wouldn't say that they are not motivated, but just like all of us behavioral change is really hard, right? I would love to workout everyday, but you know, I don't really do that. So how do we use technology to, you know, to induce that behavioral change so that we can help support their motivation to learn. So those are the different things that we work on, certainly with it. >> Yeah, and then a motivated community, is even more impactful because then once the flywheel gets going, then it's powerful. Hugo your reaction to, you know, you got the idea, you got the vision, you're starting to put, take one step in front of the other. You got AWS, take us through the progression on the startup. >> Yeah, sure. I mean, what Janine said is, very likely to, to what we're trying to do, but for us, there's three key things that in order for us to be successful and help as much people as we can, it is three things. The first one is reliability. The second one is accessibility and the other one is affordability. So the reliability means that we have been doing a lot of work in the scientific approach as to how are we going to make this work And so we've.. We have a couple of scientific publications and we had to collect data and, you know, sort of publish this into AI conferences and things like that. So it makes sure that we have the scientific evidence behind us that support us. And so what that means is that we have to have a large amount of data and then put this to work, right on the other side of the accessibility and affordability means that Janine said, you know, it needs to be on the Cloud because if it's on the Cloud, it's accessible for anyone with any device, with an internet connection, which is, you know, covering most of the globe. So it's a good start. And so, the Cloud obviously allow us to deliver the same experience and the same value to clients and parent and teacher and (indistinct) professional around the world. And that's why, you know, it's been amazing, to be able to use the technology on the AI side as well obviously there is a lot of benefit of being able to leverage the computational power of the Cloud, to make better algorithm and better training. >> (indistinct) to come back to both of you on the AI question. I think that's super important. Vincent I want to come back to you though, because in Asia Pacific and that side of the world, you still have the old guard, the incumbents around education and learning, but there's great penetration with mobile and broadband. You have great trends as a tailwind for Amazon and these kinds of opportunities EdStart, what trends are you seeing that are now favoring you? Because with COVID, you know, the world is almost kind of like been a line in the sand is before COVID and after COVID, there's more demand for learning and education and community now than ever before, not just for education, the geopolitical landscape, everything around the younger generation is more channels, more data, the more engagement, how are you looking at this? What's your vision of these trends? Can you share your thoughts on how that's impacting learning and teaching? >> So there're three things that I want to quickly touch on. Number one, I think governments are beginning to recognize that they really need to change the way they approach solving social and economic problems. The pandemic has certainly calls into question that if you do not have a digital strategy, you can't find a better time to now develop and not just develop a digital strategy, but actually to put it in place. And so government are shifting very, very quickly into the Cloud and adopting digital strategy and use digital strategy to address some of the key problems that they are facing. And they have to solve them in a very short period of time. Right, We will talk about speed, the agility of the Cloud, and that's why the Cloud is so powerful for government to adopt. The second thing is that we saw a lot of schools close down across the world, UNESCO reported, what 1.5 billion students out of schools. So how then do you continue teaching and learning when you don't have physical classroom open and that's where education technology companies and, you know, heroes like Janine's company and others, there are so many of them around are able to come forward and offer their services and help schools go online, run classrooms online, continue to allow teaching and learning, you know, online. And this has really benefited the overall education system. The third thing that is happening is that I think tertiary education and maybe even (indistinct) education model will have to change. And they recognize that, you know, again, it goes back to the digital strategy that they've got to have a clear digital strategy and the education technology companies like what, who we have here today. Just the great partners that the education system need to look at to help them solve some of these problems and get to addressing giving a solution very, very quickly. >> Well, I know you're being kind of polite to the old guard, but I'm not that polite. I'll just be, say it. There's some old technology out there and Janine and Hugo, you're young enough not to know what IT means because you're born in the Cloud. So that's good for you. I remember what I teach. Like in fact, there's a, there's a joke here in the United States so with everyone at home the teachers have turned into the IT department, meaning they're helping the parents and the kids figure out how to go unmute and how to configure a network address translation if their routers don't work, real problems. I mean, this was technology, schools were operating with low tech Zoom's out there. You've got video conferencing, you've got all kinds of things, but now there's all that support that's involved. And so what's happening is it's highlighting the real problems of the institutional technology. So Vincent, I'll start with you. This is a big problem. So Cloud solves that one, you guys have pretty much helped IT do things that they don't want to do anymore by automation. This is an opportunity, not necessarily.. There's a problem today, but it's an opportunity tomorrow. Could you just quickly talk about how you see the Cloud, helping all this manual training and learning new tools. >> Absolutely. So I want to say and put forth a hypothesis and that hypothesis is simply this. We are all now living in a Cloud empowered economy, whether we like it or not, we are touching and using services that are powered by the Cloud. And a lot of them are powered by the AWS Cloud, but we don't know about it. A lot of people just don't know, right? Whether you are watching Netflix, well in the old days, you're buying tickets and booking hotels on Expedia, or now you're actually playing games on Epic Entertainment, you know, playing Fortnite and all those kinds of games you're already using and a consumer of the Cloud. And so one of the big ideas that we have is we really want to educate and create awareness of top computing for every single person. If it can be used for innovation and to bring about benefits to society that is a common knowledge that everyone needs to have. And so the first big idea is, want to make sure that everyone actually is educated on Cloud literacy. The second thing is for those who have not embarked on a clear Cloud strategy, this is the time don't wait for another pandemic to happen because you want to be ready. You want to be prepared for the unknown, which is what a lot of people are faced with. And you want to get ahead of the curve. And so education, training yourself, getting some learning done. And that's really very, very important as a next step to prepare yourself to face the uncertainty and having programs like AWS EdStart actually helps to empower and catalyze innovation in the education industry that our two founders have actually demonstrated. So back to you, John. >> Congratulation on the EdStart, we'll get into that and real quickly, EdStart but let's first get the born in the Cloud generation Janine and Hugo you guys are competing, you got to get your apps out there. You've got to get your solutions. You're born in the Cloud. You have to go compete with the existing solutions. How do you view that? What's your strategy? What's your mindset, Janine, we'll start with you. >> So for us, we are very aware that we are solving a problem that has never been solved, right? If not, we wouldn't have so many people who are not learning. So this is a very big problem. And being able to leverage on Cloud technology means that we are able to just focus on what we do best, right? How do we make sure that learning is sufficient and learning is effective. And how do we get people motivated and all those sort of great things leveraging on game mechanics, social network, and incentives. And then while we do that on the Cloud side, we can just put that almost ourselves, everything to AWS Cloud technology to help us not worry about that. And you were absolutely right. The pandemic actually woke up a lot of people and has organizations like myself. We start to get queries from governments and other, even big NGOs on, you know, because before COVID we had to really do our best to convince them until (indistinct) are dry >> (indistinct) knock on doors and convince people. >> Yes. And now we don't have to do that. It's the other way around. So we are really, you know, we appreciate this opportunity and also we want to help people realize that in order to.. By adopting either a blended approach or adopting technology means that you can do mass customization of learning as well. And that's, what we could do to really push learning to the next level. So, and, there are a few other creative things that we've done with governments, for example, with the government of East Java on top of just using the education platform, as it is an educational platform, which is education (indistinct) on our civilization, they have added in a module that teaches COVID because, you know, their health care system is really under a lot of strain there, right? And adding this component in and the most popular mini game in that component is this game called Hoax Or Not. And it teaches people to identify what's fake news and what's real news. And that really went very popular and very well in that region of 25 million people. So that became not only just boring school subjects, but it can be used to teach many different things. And following that project, we are working with the Federal Government of Indonesia to talk about (indistinct) and even a very difficult topic like sex education as well. >> Yeah. And the learning is nonlinear, it's horizontally scalable, it's network graph. So you can learn, share about news. And this is contextual data. It's not just learning, it's everything. It's not like, you know, linear learning. It's a whole nother ballgame, Hugo, your competitive strategy. You're out there now, you got the COVID world. How are you competing? How's Amazon helping you? >> Absolutely John, look, this is an interesting one because the common competitor that we have are educational psychologist, they're not at tech. So I wouldn't say that we're competing against a competitor per se. I would say that we are competing against some old way of doing things. The challenge for us is to empower people, to be comfortable with having a machine, you know, analyzing your kid's audio recording and telling you if it's likely to be dyslexia. And this concept obviously is very new. You know, we can see this in other industry with AI, you know, you have the app that Stanford created to diagnose skin cancer by taking a photo of your skin. So it's being done in different industry. So the biggest challenge for us is really about the old way of doing things. What's been really interesting for us is that you know, education is lifelong, you know, you have a big pot in school, but when you're an adult you learn and, you know, we've been doing some very interesting work with the Justice Department where, you know, we look at inmate and, and, you know, often when people go to jail, they have, you know, some literacy difficulty. And so we've been doing some very interesting work in this field. We're also doing some very interesting work with HR and company who want to understand their staff and put management in place so that every single person in the company are empowered to do the job and, you know, achieve success. So, you know, we're not competing against Ed Tech. And often when we talk to other Ed Tech company, we come before, you know, we don't provide a learning solution. We provide an assessment solution, an E assessment solution. So really John, what we competing against is an old way of doing things. >> And that's exactly why the Cloud's so successful. You change the economics. You're actually a net new benefit. And I think the Cloud gives you speed. And your only challenge is getting the word out because the economics are just game changing, right? So that's how Amazon does so well, by the way, you can take all our recordings from theCUBE interviews, all my interviews and let me know how I do, okay. So got all the, got all the voice recordings for my interview. I'm sure the test will come back challenging. So take a look at that. >> Absolutely. >> Vincent I want to come back to you, but I want to ask the two founders real quick for the folks watching okay and hear about Amazon. They know the history, they know the startups that started on Amazon that became unicorns that went public. I mean, just a long list of successes born in the Cloud. You get big pay when you're successful, love that business model. But for the folks watching that are in the virtual garages or in their houses innovating and building out new ideas, what does EdStart mean for them? How does it work? Would you would recommend it? And what are some of the learnings that you have from working with EdStart? Janine We'll start with you. >> For me. So I would, for me, I would definitely highly recommend EdStart. And the reason is because EdStart, our relationship with EdStart, is almost not like a client-supplier relationship it's almost like business partners. So they not only help us with providing the technology. But on top of that, they have their system architects to work with my tech team and they have, you know, open technical hours for us to interact. And on top of that, they do many other things like building a community where, you know, people like me and Google can meet. And also other opportunities like getting out there, right? As you know, all of the startups run on a very thin budget. So how do we not pour millions of dollars into getting all that out there is another big benefit as well. So I'll definitely very much recommend EdStart. And I think another big thing is this, right? Now that we have COVID and we have demands coming from all other places including like, even (indistinct) from the Government of Gambia, you know, so how do we quickly deploy our technology right there? Or how do we deploy our technology from the people who are demanding our solution in Nigeria, right? With technology it is almost brainless. >> Yeah. The great enabling technology ecosystem to support you. I think, at the regions too. So the regions do help. I love we call them cube regions because we're on Amazon, we have our Cloud Hugo, EdStart your observations, experience and learnings from working with AWS. >> Absolutely. Look, there's a lot to say, so I'll try and make it short for anyone, but, so for us and me personally, and also as an individual and as a founder, it's really been a 365 sort of support. So like Janine mentioned, there's the community where you can connect with existing entrepreneur. You can connect with experts in different industry. You can ask technical experts and have a, you know, office hour every week. Like you said, Janine with, your tech team talking to a Cloud architect just to unlock any problem that you may have. And, you know, on the business side, I would add something which for us has been really useful is the fact that when we've approached government, being able to say that we have the support of AWS and that we work with them to establish data integrity, making sure everything is properly secured and all that sort of thing has been really helpful in terms of moving forward with discussion with potential client and government as well. So there's also the business aspect side of things, where when people see you, there's a perceived value that, you know, your entourage is smart people and people who are capable of doing great things. So that's been also really helpful. >> You know, that's a great point. The AppSec review process as you do deals is a lot easier when you're on AWS. Vincent we're a little bit over time. What a great panel here. Close us out, share with us what's next for you guys. You've got a great startup ecosystem and doing some great work out there and education as well, healthcare, how's your world going on? Take a minute to explain what's going on in your world. >> John I'm part of the public sector team worldwide in AWS, we have very clear mission statements. And the first is, you know, we want to bring about disruptive innovation. And the AWS Cloud is really the platform where so many of our Ed Techs, whether it's (indistinct) Health Tech, Gulf Tech, all those who are developing solutions to help our governments and our education institutions, our healthcare institutions to really be better at what they do. We want to bring about those disruptive innovations to the market, as fast as possible. It's just an honor and a privilege for us to be working. And why is that important? It's because it's linked to our second mission, which is to really make the world a better place to really deliver.. The kind of work that Hugo and Janine are doing. We cannot do it by ourselves. We need specialists and really people with brilliant ideas and think big vision to be able to carry out what they are doing. And so we're just honored and privileged to be part of their work. And in delivering this impact to society. >> The expansion of AWS out in your area has been phenomenal growth. I've been saying to Teresa Carlson and Andy Jassy and the folks at AWS for many, many years, that when you move fast with innovation, the public sector and the private partnerships come together, you starting to see that blending. And you've got some great founders here making a social impact, transforming teaching and learning. So congratulations, Janine and Hugo. Thank you for sharing your story on theCUBE. Thanks for joining. >> Thank you for having us >> thanks John >> Thank you, John. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE Virtual we're remote. We're not in person this year because of the pandemic you're watching AWS Public Sector Online Summit. Thank you for watching. (soft music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, It's theCUBE! Covering the Upgrade 2020, the NTT Research Summit presented by NTT Research. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. Welcome back to our ongoing coverage of Upgrade 2020. It's the NTT Research Summit covering a lot of really deep topics around a lot of the basic core research that NTT is sponsoring. Kind of like the old days of Mobell or some of the other kind of core research. And we're excited to have our next guest to go. A little bit beyond the core research and actually talk about working with people today. So we'd like to welcome in Alex Bennett. He is the global senior vice president of the intelligent workplace for NTT. Alex, good morning? >> Good morning, Jeff. How are you doing. >> Terrific. So I think for a lot of people, you know, probably know the NTT name, certainly in the States, but are not familiar with, I think, you know, the degree of which you guys have this huge business around services and workplace collaboration, I wonder if you can give us kind of a high level summary of the services angle at NTT, you know, beyond just putting in communications infrastructure equipment. >> Yeah, definitely. I mean, the NTT, as you said, is it's a huge organization, Very well known in Japan and growing in last year that we brought together about 32 different brands under the entity limited brand and we have NTT data services as well. So our role is really to look at the client requirements, the business needs that they have and be able to provide end to end solutions and wrap them with our services to make sure they've got, you know, efficiency gains, but also improving employee experience and experience around, you know, improving how they connect to their customers as well. >> Right, right. So obviously COVID-19, what was, you know, kind of a light switch moment back in March has now turned into, you know, kind of an ongoing, a new normal here we are six months plus into this, into this thing, really no end in sight in the immediate term. So, you know, people were thrown into the situation where work from home, work from anywhere had to happen with no prep. You've been in the business for a long time working on solutions. So there's the obvious things like security and access, but what are some of the less obvious things that people should be thinking about when they think about supporting their employees that are not now coming into the office? >> Well, I mean, it's been interesting, right. I said I have been in the sector for a long time and a lot of the themes have been the same for the last 10, 15 years, you know, how do we improve employee experience? How do we start to look at things like wellbeing? You know, how does it have an impact on productivity? And how do you make sure that we make it simple for people to carry out their tasks? Now, something I get asked a lot is this idea of how do we make it frictionless? A lot of the time, people don't really care about the brand or the technology. They just want to be able to carry out their role from whatever industry sector they aren't doing it efficiently and do it well, but also to be able to interact. I think it's been really important. And this pandemic has brought about this view, that people haven't been able to socialize in the same way they have in the past and work is really about people, you know, the workplace is also about people and how you connect those people into customers and provide efficiencies in that area. So the conversations I've been having in the last, you know, six to seven months, it's been quite interesting that the programs they were taking 18 months, 24 months, 36 months over, have had to be accelerated and really deployed in about three months. And then that's brought about the lows of operation on policy concerns. So as you mentioned, as you start to have this new, what we're calling, you know, distributed workforce, especially those organizations which have been perhaps more enterprise specific, you know, which are going into carpeted office environments, they've been requested by governments to only work from home. And that's brought about a huge impact to how people work, but also socialize. So from a technology standpoint, you've asked people, right, you're going to work from home, actually, do you have network connectivity? Can you actually connect with a technology tool? Like, you know, collaboration to be able to speak to your customers, to speak to your GOPs. Now what device are you actually working on? So we saw this real drive around what is this sort of immediate business continuity requirement for a secure remote worker. >> Right. And that brought about other concerns as well. >> Right. So there's so many layers to this conversation. I'm psyched to dig into it. But one of the ones I want to dig in is kind of tools overload, you know, this idea of collaboration and, you know, trying to get your work done and trying to get bears removed. At the same time though, it just can't seems like we just keep getting more tools added to the palette that we have to interact with every day, whether it's lack or a sauna or Salesforce or box, or you know, the list goes on and on and on. And the other thing that just seems strange to me is that right, all of these things have a notification component. So it's almost like the noise is increasing. I don't hear a lot of people ripping out old tooling or ripping out old systems. So how do you help guide people to say, that there's all these great collaboration tools, there's all these great communication tools, but you can't have all of them firing all the time and expect people to actually have time to get work done. >> Yeah. And it's also, you know, some people are used to that, you might have a digital native who's used to using multiple tools, but you don't have others that actually haven't been taught or a learning program about how to use different tools for different applications. And that becomes that person becomes frustrated and their productivity levels can go down. I think that what we'd really try and do is understand what are the business requirements by the persona? And also if you think of that distributed worker, that's now having to work from home and go into the office for specific tasks that are allowed, are they a sales person? No. Are they actually working in HR? What do they need and what are the tasks they need? And that start to provide the right types of tools and technology specifically for them and make sure they have a learning path that's driven around how they actually enable that technology. But you're right though. I think one of the thing that COVID founder's that doesn't happen overnight, you know, that's an engagement process. COVID hit and everyone was at home straight away. So we did see this huge transition from what may have been a legacy on premise application to starting to use more cloud based applications. And almost everyone was thrown in at the deep pant. Right? Well, here you go, just get on and use it. And at the same time they had WeChat or they had no other types of applications like WhatsApp and there were all these channels were happening. And they always had an impact on things like compliance and security, because all of a sudden, you're not using a corporately approved platform and solution. And you're starting to talk about perhaps confidential information. That's not in a way that is actually retained inside of a corporate network for the compliance and regulatory components. Right. So it's been a really interesting time in the last few months. >> Right. Well, so let's just touch on security for a minute. 'Cause obviously security is a huge concern. As you said, there's a whole bunch of security. You get kind of new security issues. One is just, everybody's working from home, whether they've got to VPN or not, or they're on their... You know, whatever their cable provider. You don't know what devices they're on, right? There's so many different devices and too as these apps have proliferated all over all these devices, whether access Salesforce on my phone or on my laptop or on my computer at work. Right. All very different. So when you look at the kind of security challenge that has come from distributed workforce with this super acceleration, you know, how many customers are ready for it, it's just caused a complete, you know, kind of fire, a hair on fire reaction to get up to speed, or, you know, are a lot of the systems of the monitored system relatively well locked down. So it wasn't a giant, you know, kind of adjustment back in March. >> Really. It depends on the type of company culture it was before. You know, what we've actually seen from some research we've done very recently across 1500 different companies, those organizations that have really invested become more digital disruptors. Now that they've embedded an idea of agility, they've actually already got a distributed workforce. They've already started to move a lot of their platforms and applications to the cloud. They've started to think about these IT policies and security. Previously, they've been very successful in how they've been able to pivot and drive this business continuity. I think for others that have been, no have large installed base of employees, no have set policies in place it's been harder for them to transition. And what we've seen is that they're the organizations that have really tried to integrate some of the new technologies into the old and that that's quite difficult sometimes. So, you know, around security, out of those 1500 organizations, nearly 70% of them said that they have a higher level of risk and concern about this. You're already in compliance today than they had prior to the pandemic. >> Right. >> What also is brought about is this idea of moving from a sort of perimeter security now where you'd come into an office and you have this perimeter where the network's secure, the physical location, and security, containerize the applications. And you've got to empower employees more now because you know, people are going to be mobile. They're going to be using multiple devices in different locations, all around the world. So we're seeing this transition as people move to cloud based platform, security is starting to get embedded into the application and it goes back to that persona aspect. So you can start to initiate things like you know, data loss protection and rights management about the content an individual has based on their location or the confidentiality of that document or piece of information. So that's where we're seeing this move is sort of really accelerating to the group, take the stress away from the employee embedded into an actual system and an application. And that has the intelligence to work out the security and the compliance on behalf of the individual. >> Right. You know, where I was going to go is, you know, there's a lot of conversations now about certain companies announcing that people can just work from home for the foreseeable future, especially here in Silicon Valley. And you mentioned that, you know, for some people that were already kind of down at digital transformation path, they're in good shape. Other people, you know, weren't that far, and of course all the means on social media are, you know, what drove your digital transformation, the CEO, the CMO, or COVID. And we all know the answer to the question. So I just want to get, you know, kind of a longterm perspective. You've been in this space for a long time. I think there's going to be, you know, a significantly increased percentage of people that are working from home. A significantly increased percentage of the time, if not a hundred percent of the time. How do you see this kind of, you know, extending out and how will it impact the way that people motivate? 'Cause at the end of the day, you've written a ton of blog posts on this, you know, motivation equals profitability. And a motivated engaged people do better work and do get better results on the bottom line. How do you see this as this as (indistinct) rules for six months, 12 months, 24 months, when there's some mishmash of combination of work from home and work from the office? >> I think probably the first thing to say is that from the research we've done, we think that's going to differ by different geographies. I mean, it's interesting when you look at areas like India and perhaps South Africa where the network connectivity home is actually not as good as in Northern Europe or North America, and actually it becomes quite hard to carry out your role and task at home. And it can become really frustrating. There's also sort of health and safety components to also working at home. Now we've had a lot of people, especially the younger generation who are in shared home, shared facilities. Now who's going to pay for the internet, the bundles, you know, and actually you only have your bedroom and is it healthy to work at your bedroom all day? So when you really sort of peel back the layers of this, this is a really complex environment, and it's also dependent on the industry sector you are. You're actually driving. But at a high level, one thing we're really seeing is most people still want to have a level of human interaction. That we as humans like to like to work together and engage together. And in fact, about 80% of the respondents of our report actually said, they want to come back to the office. Now this, this speaks to this idea of choice and flexibility. 'Cause it's not just about coming back for five days a week, eight to five, it's about going actually I've got a task to carry out. It'd be really helpful if I was with my team face to face. >> Right. >> And I can come in for four hours, book my time in that physical space, carry that out, and then I can go home and do that sort of really the research based work which I can do in the safety of my own environment. So that's what we're seeing across the industry whereas before. Now, I think everyone's trying to build these really nice big offices that looked fantastic, more huge and talked about your brand. Most organizations now are repurposing space 'cause they're not going to have as many people inside of those physical locations, but they're motivating for them to come in for creative work, you know, to be social, to think about how they do cross agile team development. >> Jeff: Right. >> And that's what we're starting to see today. >> Yeah. It's really interesting you think of some young engineer that just graduated from school, gets a job at Google and you know, you get all your food there and they'll do your dry cleaning and they'll change the oil in your car and they'll, you know, take care of everything. And, and so there's this little growth in these little micro houses. Well guess what, now you don't have any of that stuff anymore. The micro house with no kitchen or kitchen that does look so attractive. And I want to shift gears a little bit more detail on NTT. You know, we've talked to lots of people about new ways to work. IBM, Citrix, you know, VM-ware has a solution and you work with big company. So how does NTT fit in, you know, kind of a transformation process big and that on the big scale, but more kind of an employee engagement and a work from anywhere type of engagement. How do you guys fit within, you know, big system integrators, like a center that are driving organizational change and, you know, kind of all this other suite of technology that they might already have in place. >> Yeah. I mean, we sort of sit in that role of a service delivery organization as well as systems integrator. So our role is to actually go into those clients and sit down with them, which is now virtually, rather than in person a lot of the time. And really understand what are those business KPIs they have and help them shape that strategy. And to do that, you've got to understand what they have today, that view of the assets. And that goes across multiple components as you said, from, you know, desktop application, security, inclusive of culture, property assets, network. And what we do is really take a holistic view of those areas that go for you to reach that business goal, that KPI, you know, this is the project that you're going to have to do. And anything around employee engagement ultimately is fed also by how good your network is and how secure that network is to deliver those applications efficiently for that employee to carry out their task in that frictionless way. So we have a very holistic view about how we then deliver Upgrade. That the core infrastructure, we do that secure by design is our sort of policy and everything we do, you know, security is embedded into what we do, and then we deliver that outcome. But then we erupt things like adoption services. I think one thing in the past, you know, people say here's a technology, go on and do it. Especially nowadays, you've got quite complex platforms. You've got to really understand how do you give information to people to self serve them, that sort of nudge technology, so they can understand how to carry it out on that idea of adoption training. Change of management is becoming ever increasingly important for our clients. >> Right. So I wan shift gears again, Alex, and talk about the show Upgrade 2020. Lot of (laughs) a lot of really heavy science going on here in healthcare, in IT, in a whole bunch of areas. Pretty exciting stuff, you know, we've talked to some other guests about some of the real details and I'm definitely going to attend some sessions and have my brain exploded I'm sure. But I'm just curious of how it fits with what your doing, you know, you've been involved, as you said, not necessarily the NTT, but you've been involved in kind of workplace collaboration tools for a long, long time. You know, how do you see, you know, kind of basic research and some of this really fundamental research, you know, kind of helping you and your customers and your solutions, you know, as we kind of moved down the road. >> Alright, hold at that. The main conversation we're having with executives today is this idea of employee wellbeing and experience is fundamental to the success of their business. 'Cause it drives customer centricity productivity gains. You've got to think about how technology can underpin that and deliver insights to you. So, you know, the new currency is data. And what I find really interesting around and what we're talking about with Upgrade 2020 is this ideas of digital twins. So when you think of this concept of a digital twin, it all is based on this idea of extensibility. So all your decisions that you're making right to today, you know, these short term decisions you having to do for business continuity, you've got to think about the longterm impact of how you're going to be able to ingest that data from all those systems into a central area, to give you insight. Now, from that insight, you've then got the, you know, the power of machine learning and artificial intelligence to actually say right, for this component how many of my employees really are? Then well, are they doing well in the productivity gains? And from my property estate, you know, how many of my properties are actually reducing the energy consumption? And are we adhering to our sustainability goals? Are they well? So the actual physical environment is safe for those employees. So all of those disparate platforms have to come together into that one area and give you insight. So that the marrying of physical space with the how humans interact all into a digital twin, I think is really interesting and something I'm speaking to clients about day in, day out. >> I love that, that is awesome. You know, we're first exposed to the digital twin concept years ago, doing some work with general electric, because they were doing a lot of digital twin work around, you know, engines on airplanes and, you know, simulate an airplane engine that's running on a plane in the Middle East, it's going to act very different than a plane that's running in Alaska. And then, you know, I love the concept of digital twin around the context of people in medicine, right. And modeling a heart or modeling a behavior system or cardiovascular system. How are you talking about digital twins? 'Cause it sounds like you're talking about kind of a combination between, you know, kind of individual people and how they're doing versus some group of people as a unit or organization. And then you even mentioned, you know, sustainability goals and buildings. So when you're talking about digital twin in this context, what are the boundaries? How are you organizing that thing that you can then do, you know, kind of tests and kind of predictive exercises to see how the real thing is going to do relative to what the digital twin did. >> Yeah. But it goes back to defining those business outcomes. And most of the discussions we're having is, yeah, obviously increased productivity, but it's also a reducing costs. A big one we've seen in my area is attraction retention of talent. You know, intellectual property is going to differentiate organizations in the future as technology sort of standardizes. But sustainability again from the research we've done is really high up on the executives agenda. You know, the idea that we, as NTT as well, we have a duty to society to actually start giving back a view of how technology can improve the sustainability goal. And in fact, we've just become the business Avenger for the UN sustainability goal, number 11, around the idea of communities and smart cities. So the clients that I'm speaking to when they're looking at those business objectives are no 10, 15% of my, my actual costs associated to my property. We've now got a new distributed workforce, but I've got a huge amount of energy going into those properties. Now we can actually connect now building management systems into now that digital twin. We can also start to look at the other platforms such as lifts, you know, also all the heating and air ventilation. And start to get the data that allows us to model and predict when certain issues may occur. So, you know, as less people start coming in, you'll have occupancy data. You'll be able to say, you're actually, this location has only been used 30% capacity. We could reduce the amount of space we have, or in fact, we don't need that space at all. And in that space, we know that we're running an HVAC system and air conditioning a hundred percent of the time. You start to actually reduce that and you can reduce energy consumption by 30%. Now goes back to this whole idea of extensibility on one building that can have a big impact, but across 500 buildings that we're NTT have, that's a significant amount of energy that we can change. >> Jeff: Right. >> And also you can then start to think about the idea of, you know, more different type of power purchasing agreement with sustainable energy going into those environments. >> So many, you know, kind of so many interesting twists and turns on this journey since, you know, that COVID hit. And it is going to be really fascinating to see kind of what sticks and, you know, and the longterm ramifications. 'Cause we're not going back to the way that it was. I think that's not even a question. Just the last thing on kind of the data, you know, we saw some really, I think not such great things early on in this thing where, you know, you get put us basically a sniffer on and you know, our people sitting in front of their computer all day. I saw some nasty thing on Twitter the other day. My boss wants me to be on Zoom calls all day long. I mean, do people get it that, you know, there's an opportunity to increase motivation, not decrease motivation by, you know, a responsible use and a good use of this data versus, you know, a potential perception of, well now they're just big brothering me to death. >> It's such a hot topic, right? I mean, even before COVID we had, you know, the GDPR compliance in Europe. But that ultimately is a global compliance and the West coast America also got a similar one now about what data you're actually keeping about me as an individual. And I should have access to that and I can not speak to my company about it. And is it big brother or actually using that data to help inform me as an individual ways of improving the way I work or working in a way that has a better balance for me as an individual. And we're having these conversations with our clients right now about how we do this, because they having to work with workers counselors in countries like Germany. Because track and trace does have that view of that sort of big brother. What, where are you? What are you doing? And how long have you been on your computer? I think it's down to the culture of your business and the purpose that you have and how you engage with your employees, that you show that data to be about all benefiting them as an individual. Now, I'm going back to that digital twin, that the view of ingesting data, then from perhaps platforms like, you know, Cisco WebEx or Office 365, and you can see how long they are actually in front of their screen. You can then start to predict and see where you may have burnout or in fact affect change where you say RHR policy should dictate, you shouldn't be working 14 hours a day. That's not good for you. It's not good for us. And actually nudge them and teach them about taking no time away from the desk and actually having a better work balance. And that's important because it all goes back to increases the productivity longterm, but it's great brand association and it's good for attraction and retention of talent. >> Right, Right. Well, I think the retention and attraction is a huge thing. You keep talking about productivity and obviously in your blog post talking about engagement, right. And engagement is such a direct tie to that. And then at the bottom line (giggles) it's kind of like diversity of opinion. It actually makes good business sense. And you actually put more money in the bank at the end of the day, when you do some of these more progressive, you know, kind of approaches to how you manage the people. 'Cause they're not machines, they're people. >> Yeah. And you should allow them to make decisions. You know, that again, distributed working, you've got to think of how to empower them with the tools that gives them the choice to make decisions. And you know, that that decision making is more democratized inside of organizations that are successful. But if you don't have the technology that allows them to do that, it goes back to a hierarchical decision making. And that takes time, it's slower to market, and then you know, you're not as successful as your competition. So we're really trying to prove that this idea of thinking about people first using the data that backs it up you know, with empirical data to show the benefits, is the way forward for organizations today. >> Yeah. Alex, great conversation. Certainly nothing but opportunity (laughs) I had for you and what you do in this really fast evolving and transformative space, which is so important. Which is how do people work? How do they feel good? How are they engaged? How are they productive and really contribute? And at the end of the day, it is good business. So exciting times, good luck on the show and some of this crazy research coming out of it on the digital twin, and we look forward to continuing to watch the story unfold. >> Thank you very much, Jeff. >> Alright. He's Alex. I'm Jeff. You're watching Upgrade 2020. The continuous coverage from theCUBE. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

(upbeat electronic music) >> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Okay, hello everyone. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. We're here with Meet the Analysts segment Sunday morning. We've got everyone around the world here to discuss a bit of the news around the EU killing the privacy deal, striking it down, among other topics around, you know, data privacy and global commerce. We got great guests here, Ray Wang, CEO of Constellation Research. Bill Mew, founder and CEO of Cyber Crisis Management from the Firm Crisis Team. And JD, CEO of Spearhead Management. JD, I can let you say your name because I really can't pronounce it. How do I (laughs) pronounce it, doctor? >> I wouldn't even try it unless you are Dutch, otherwise it will seriously hurt your throat. (Ray laughing) So, JD works perfect for me. >> Doctor Drooghaag. >> And Sarbjeet Johal, who's obviously an influencer, a cloud awesome native expert. Great, guys. Great to have you on, appreciate it, thanks for comin' on. And Bill, thank you for initiating this, I appreciate all your tweets. >> Happy Sunday. (Bill laughing) >> You guys have been really tweeting up a storm, I want to get everyone together, kind of as an analyst, Meet the Analyst segment. Let's go through with it. The news is the EU and U.S. Privacy Shield for data struck down by the court, that's the BBC headline. Variety of news, different perspectives, you've got an American perspective and you've got an international perspective. Bill, we'll start with you. What does this news mean? I mean, basically half the people in the world probably don't know what the Privacy Shield means, so why is this ruling so important, and why should it be discussed? >> Well, thanks to sharing between Europe and America, it's based on a two-way promise that when data goes from Europe to America, the Americans promise to respect our privacy, and when data goes form America to Europe, the Europeans promise to respect the American privacy. Unfortunately, there are big cultural differences between the two blocks. The Europeans have a massive orientation around privacy as a human right. And in the U.S., there's somewhat more of a prioritization on national security, and therefore for some time there's been a mismatch here, and it could be argued that the Americans haven't been living up to their promise because they've had various different laws, and look how much talk about FISA and the Cloud Act that actually contravene European privacy and are incompatible with the promise Americans have given. That promise, first of all, was in the form of a treaty called Safe Harbor. This went to court and was struck down. It was replaced by Privacy Shield, which was pretty much the same thing really, and that has recently been to the court as well, and that has been struck down. There now is no other means of legally sharing data between Europe and America other than what are being called standard contractual clauses. This isn't a broad treaty between two nations, these are drawn by each individual country. But also in the ruling, they said that standard contractual clauses could not be used by any companies that were subject to mass surveillance. And actually in the U.S., the FISA courts enforce a level of mass surveillance through all of the major IT firms, of all major U.S. telcos, cloud firms, or indeed, social media firms. So, this means that for all of the companies out there and their clients, business should be carrying on as usual apart from if you're one of those major U.S. IT firms, or one of their clients. >> So, why did this come about? Was there like a major incident? Why now, was it in the court, stuck in the courts? Were people bitchin' and moanin' about it? Why did this go down, what's the real issue? >> For those of us who have been following this attentively, things have been getting more and more precarious for a number of years now. We've had a situation where there are different measures being taken in the U.S., that have continued to erode the different protections that there were for Europeans. FISA is an example that I've given, and that is the sort of secret courts and secret warrants that are issued to seize data without anyone's knowledge. There's the Cloud Act, which is a sort of extrajudicial law that means that warrants can be served in America to U.S. organizations, and they have to hand over data wherever that data resides, anywhere in the world. So, data could exist on a European server, if it was under the control of an American company, they'd have to hand that over. So, whilst FISA is in direct conflict with the promises that the Americans made, things like the Cloud Act are not only in controversion with the promise they've made, there's conflicting law here, because if you're a U.S. subsidiary of a big U.S. firm, and you're based in Europe, who do you obey, the European law that says you can't hand it over because of GDPR, or the American laws that says they've got extrajudicial control, and that you've got to hand it over. So, it's made things a complete mess. And to say has this stuff, hasn't really happened? No, there's been a gradual erosion, and this has been going through the courts for a number of years. And many of us have seen it coming, and now it just hit us. >> So, if I get you right in what you're saying, it's basically all this mishmash of different laws, and there's no coherency, and consistency, is that the core issue? >> On the European side you could argue there's quite a lot of consistency, because we uphold people's privacy, in theory. But there have been incidents which we could talk about with that, but in theory, we hold your rights dear, and also the rights of Europeans, so everyone's data should be safe here from the sort of mass surveillance we're seeing. In the U.S., there's more of a direct conflict between everything, including there's been a, in his first week in the White House, Donald Trump signed an executive order saying that the Privacy Act in the U.S., which had been the main protection for people in the U.S., no longer applied to non-U.S. citizens. Which was, if you wanted try and cause a storm, and if you wanted to try and undermine the treaty, there's no better way of doing it than that. >> A lot of ways, Ray, I mean simplify this for me, because I'm a startup, I'm hustlin', or I'm a big company, I don't even know who runs the servers anymore, and I've got data stored in multiple clouds, I got in regions, and Oracle just announced more regions, you got Amazon, a gazillion regions, I could be on-premise. I mean bottom line, what is this about? I mean, and -- >> Bill's right, I mean when Max Schrems, the Austrian. Bill's right, when Max Schrems the Austrian activist actually filed his case against Facebook for where data was being stored, data residency wasn't as popular. And you know, what it means for companies that are in the cloud is that you have to make sure your data's being stored in the region, and following those specific region rules, you can't skirt those rules anymore. And I think the cloud companies know that this has been coming for some time, and that's why there's been announced in a lot of regions, a lot of areas that are actually happening, so I think that's the important part. But going back to Bill's earlier point, which is important, is America is basically the Canary Islands of privacy, right? Privacy is there, but it isn't there in a very, very explicit sense, and I think we've been skirting the rules for quite some time, because a lot of our economy depends on that data, and the marketing of the data. And so we often confuse privacy with consent, and also with value exchange, and I think that's part of the problem of what's going on here. Companies that have been building their business models on free data, free private data, free personally identifiable data information are the ones that are at risk! And I think that's what's going on here. >> It's the classic Facebook issue, you're the product, and the data is your product. Well, I want to get into what this means, 'cause my personal take away, not knowing the specifics, and just following say, cyber security for instance, one of the tenets there is that data sharing is an invaluable, important ethos in the community. Now, everyone has their own privacy, or security data, they don't want to let everyone know about their exploits but, but it's well known in the security world that sharing data with each other, different companies and countries is actually a good thing. So, the question that comes in my mind, is this really about data sharing or data privacy, or both? >> I think it's about both. And actually what the ruling is saying here is, all we're asking from the European side is please stop spying on us and please give us a level of equal protection that you give to your own citizens. Because data comes from America to Europe, whatever that data belongs to, a U.S. citizen or a European citizen, it's given equal protection. It is only if data goes in the other direction, where you have secret courts, secret warrants, seizure of data on this massive scale, and also a level of lack of equivalence that has been imposed. And we're just asking that once you've sorted out a few of those things, we'd say everything's back on the table, away we go again! >> Why don't we merge the EU with the United States? Wouldn't that solve the problem? (Bill laughing) >> We just left Europe! (laughs heartily) >> Actually I always -- >> A hostile takeover of the UK maybe, the 52nd state. (Bill laughing loudly) >> I always pick on Bill, like Bill, you got all screaming loud and clear about all these concerns, but UKs trying to get out of that economic union. It is a union at the end of the day, and I think the problem is the institutional mismatch between the EU and U.S., U.S. is old democracy, bigger country, population wise, bigger economy. Whereas Europe is several countries trying to put together, band together as one entity, and the institutions are new, like you know, they're 15 years old, right? They're maturing. I think that's where the big mismatch is and -- >> Well, Ray, I want to get your thoughts on this, Ray wrote a book, I forget what year it was, this digital disruption, basically it was digital transformation before it was actually a trend. I mean to me it's like, do you do the process first and then figure out where the value extraction is, and this may be a Silicon Valley or an American thing, but go create value, then figure out how to create process or understand regulations. So, if data and entrepreneurship is going to be a new modern era of value, why wouldn't we want to create a rule based system that's open and enabling, and not restrictive? >> So, that's a great point, right? And the innovation culture means you go do it first, and you figure out the rules later, and that's been a very American way of getting things done, and very Silicon Valley in our perspective, not everyone, but I think in general that's kind of the trend. I think the challenge here is that we are trading privacy for security, privacy for convenience, privacy for personalization, right? And on the security level, it's a very different conversation than what it is on the consumer end, you know, personalization side. On the security side I think most Americans are okay with a little bit of "spying," at least on your own side, you know, to keep the country safe. We're not okay with a China level type of spying, which we're not sure exactly what that means or what's enforceable in the courts. We look like China to the Europeans in the way we treat privacy, and I think that's the perspective we need to understand because Europeans are very explicit about how privacy is being protected. And so this really comes back to a point where we actually have to get to a consent model on privacy, as to knowing what data is being shared, you have the right to say no, and when you have the right to say no. And then if you have a value exchange on that data, then it's really like sometimes it's monetary, sometimes it's non-monetary, sometimes there's other areas around consensus where you can actually put that into place. And I think that's what's missing at this point, saying, you know, "Do we pay for your data? Do we explicitly get your consent first before we use it?" And we haven't had that in place, and I think that's where we're headed towards. And you know sometimes we actually say privacy should be a human right, it is in the UN Charter, but we haven't figured out how to enforce it or talk about it in the digital age. And so I think that's the challenge. >> Okay, people, until they lose it, they don't really understand what it means. I mean, look at Americans. I have to say that we're idiots on this front, (Bill chuckling) but you know, the thing is most people don't even understand how much value's getting sucked out of their digital exhaust. Like, our kids, TikTok and whatnot. So I mean, I get that, I think there's some, there's going to be blow back for America for sure. I just worry it's going to increase the cost of doing business, and take away from the innovation for citizen value, the people, because at the end of the day, it's for the people right? I mean, at the end of the day it's like, what's my privacy mean if I lose value? >> Even before we start talking about the value of the data and the innovation that we can do through data use, you have to understand the European perspective here. For the European there's a level of double standards and an erosion of trust. There's double standards in the fact that in California you have new privacy regulations that are slightly different to GDPR, but they're very much GDPR like. And if the boot was on the other foot, to say if we were spying on Californians and looking at their personal data, and contravening CCPA, the Californians would be up in arms! Likewise if we having promised to have a level of equality, had enacted a local rule in Europe that said that when data from America's over here, actually the privacy of Americans counts for nothing, we're only going to prioritize the privacy of Europeans. Again, the Americans would be up in arms! And therefore you can see that there are real double standards here that are a massive issue, and until those addressed, we're not going to trust the Americans. And likewise, the very fact that on a number of occasions Americans have signed up to treaties and promised to protect our data as they did with Safe Harbor, as they did with Privacy Shield, and then have blatantly, blatantly failed to do so means that actually to get back to even a level playing field, where we were, you have a great deal of trust to overcome! And the thing from the perspective of the big IT firms, they've seen this coming for a long time, as Ray was saying, and they sought to try and have a presence in Europe and other things. But the way this ruling has gone is that, I'm sorry, that isn't going to be sufficient! These big IT firms based in the U.S. that have been happy to hand over data, well some of them maybe more happy than others, but they all need to hand over data to the NSA or the CIA. They've been doing this for some time now without actually respecting this data privacy agreement that has existed between the two trading blocks. And now they've been called out, and the position now is that the U.S. is no longer trusted, and neither are any of these large American technology firms. And until the snooping stops and equality is introduced, they can now no longer, even from their European operations, they can no longer use standard contractual clauses to transfer data, which is going to be a massive restriction on their business. And if they had any sense, they'd be lobbying very, very hard right now to the Senate, to the House, to try and persuade U.S. lawmakers actually to stick to some these treaties! To stop introducing really mad laws that ride roughshod over other people's privacy, and have a certain amount of respect. >> Let's let JD weigh in, 'cause he just got in, sorry on the video, I made him back on a host 'cause he dropped off. Just, Bill, real quick, I mean I think it's like when, you know, I go to Europe there's the line for Americans, there's the line for EU. Or EU and everybody else. I mean we might be there, but ultimately this has to be solved. So, JD, I want to let you weigh in, Germany has been at the beginning forefront of privacy, and they've been hardcore, and how's this all playing out in your perspective? >> Well, the first thing that we have to understand is that in Germany, there is a very strong law for regulation. Germans panic as soon as they know regulation, so they need to understand what am I allowed to do, and what am I not allowed to do. And they expect the same from the others. For the record I'm not German, but I live in Germany for some 20 years, so I got a bit of a feeling for them. And that sense of need for regulation has spread very fast throughout the European Union, because most of the European member states of the European Union consider this, that it makes sense, and then we found that Britain had already a very good framework for privacy, so GDPR itself is very largely based on what the United Kingdom already had in place with their privacy act. Moving forward, we try to find agreement and consensus with other countries, especially the United States because that's where most of the tech providers are, only to find out, and that is where it started to go really, really bad, 2014, when the mass production by Edward Snowden came out, to find out it's not data from citizens, it's surveillance programs which include companies. I joined a purchasing conference a few weeks ago where the purchase of a large European multinational, where the purchasing director explicitly stated that usage of U.S. based tech providers for sensitive data is prohibited as a result of them finding out that they have been under surveillance. So, it's not just the citizens, there's mass -- >> There you have it, guys! We did trust you! We did have agreements there that you could have abided by, but you chose not to, you chose to abuse our trust! And you're now in a position where you are no longer trusted, and unless you can lobby your own elected representatives to actually recreate a level playing field, we're not going to continue trusting you. >> So, I think really I -- >> Well I mean that, you know, innovation has to come from somewhere, and you know, has to come from America if that's the case, you guys have to get on board, right? Is that what it -- >> Innovation without trust? >> Is that the perspective? >> I don't think it's a country thing, I mean like, it's not you or them, I think everybody -- >> I'm just bustin' Bill's chops there. >> No, but I think everybody, everybody is looking for what the privacy rules are, and that's important. And you can have that innovation with consent, and I think that's really where we're going to get to. And this is why I keep pushing that issue. I mean, privacy should be a fundamental right, and how you get paid for that privacy is interesting, or how you get compensated for that privacy if you know what the explicit value exchange is. What you're talking about here is the surveillance that's going on by companies, which shouldn't be happening, right? That shouldn't be happening at the company level. At the government level I can understand that that is happening, and I think those are treaties that the governments have to agree upon as to how much they're going to impinge on our personal privacy for the trade off for security, and I don't think they've had those discussions either. Or they decided and didn't tell any of their citizens, and I think that's probably more likely the case. >> I mean, I think what's happening here, Bill, you guys were pointing out, and Ray, you articulated there on the other side, and my kind of colorful joke aside, is that we're living a first generation modern sociology problem. I mean, this is a policy challenge that extends across multiple industries, cyber security, citizen's rights, geopolitical. I mean when would look, and even when we were doing CUBE events overseas in Europe, in North American companies we'd call it abroad, we'd just recycle the American program, and we found there's so much localization value. So, Ray, this is the digital disruption, it's the virtualization of physical for digital worlds, and it's a lot of network theory, which is computer science, a lot of sociology. This is a modern challenge, and I don't think it so much has a silver bullet, it's just that we need smart people working on this. That's my take away! >> I think we can describe the ideal endpoint being somewhere we have meaningful protection alongside the maximization of economic and social value through innovation. So, that should be what we would all agree would be the ideal endpoint. But we need both, we need meaningful protection, and we need the maximization of economic and social value through innovation! >> Can I add another axis? Another axis, security as well. >> Well, I could -- >> I put meaningful protection as becoming both security and privacy. >> Well, I'll speak for the American perspective here, and I won't speak, 'cause I'm not the President of the United States, but I will say as someone who's been from Silicon Valley and the east coast as a technical person, not a political person, our lawmakers are idiots when it comes to tech, just generally. (Ray laughing) They're not really -- (Bill laughing loudly) >> They really don't understand. They really don't understand the tech at all! >> So, the problem is -- >> I'm not claiming ours are a great deal better. (laughs) >> Well, this is why I think this is a modern problem. Like, the young people I talk to are like, "Why do we have this rules?" They're all lawyers that got into these positions of Congress on the American side, and so with the American JEDI Contract you guys have been following very closely is, it's been like the old school Oracle, IBM, and then Amazon is leading with an innovative solution, and Microsoft has come in and re-pivoted. And so what you have is a fight for the digital future of citizenship! And I think what's happening is that we're in a massive societal transition, where the people in charge don't know what the hell they're talkin' about, technically. And they don't know who to tap to solve the problems, or even shape or frame the problems. Now, there's pockets of people that are workin' on it, but to me as someone who looks at this saying, it's a pretty simple solution, no one's ever seen this before. So, there's a metaphor you can draw, but it's a completely different problem space because it's, this is all digital, data's involved. >> We've got a lobbyists out there, and we've got some tech firms spending an enormous amount of lobbying. If those lobbyists aren't trying to steer their representatives in the right direction to come up with law that aren't going to massively undermine trade and data sharing between Europe and America, then they're making a big mistake, because we got here through some really dumb lawmaking in the U.S., I mean, there are none of the laws in Europe that are a problem here. 'Cause GDPR isn't a great difference, a great deal different from some of the laws that we have already in California and elsewhere. >> Bill, Bill. >> The laws that are at issue here -- >> Bill, Bill! You have to like, back up a little bit from that rhetoric that EU is perfect and U.S. is not, that's not true actually. >> I'm not saying we're perfect! >> No, no, you say that all the time. >> But I'm saying there's a massive lack of innovation. Yeah, yeah. >> I don't, I've never said it! >> Arm wrestle! >> Yes, yes. >> When I'm being critical of some of the dumb laws in the U.S, (Sarbjeet laughing) I'm not saying Europe is perfect. What we're trying to say is that in this particular instance, I said there was an equal balance here between meaningful protection and the maximization of economic and social value. On the meaningful protection side, America's got it very wrong in terms of the meaningful protection it provides to civil European data. On the maximization of economic and social value, I think Europe's got it wrong. I think there are a lot of things we could do in Europe to actually have far more innovation. >> Yeah. >> It's a cultural issue. The Germans want rules, that's what they crave for. America's the other way, we don't want rules, I mean, pretty much is a rebel society. And that's kind of the ethos of most tech companies. But I think you know, to me the media, there's two things that go on with this tech business. The company's themselves have to be checked by say, government, and I believe in not a lot of regulation, but enough to check the power of bad actors. Media so called "checking power", both of these major roles, they don't really know what they're talking about, and this is back to the education piece. The people who are in the media so called "checking power" and the government checking power assume that the companies are bad. Right, so yeah, because eight out of ten companies like Amazon, actually try to do good things. If you don't know what good is, you don't really, (laughs) you know, you're in the wrong game. So, I think media and government have a huge education opportunity to look at this because they don't even know what they're measuring. >> I support the level of innovation -- >> I think we're unreeling from the globalization. Like, we are undoing the globalization, and that these are the side effects, these conflicts are a side effect of that. >> Yeah, so all I'm saying is I support the focus on innovation in America, and that has driven an enormous amount of wealth and value. What I'm questioning here is do you really need to spy on us, your allies, in order to help that innovation? And I'm starting to, I mean, do you need mass surveillance of your allies? I mean, I can see you may want to have some surveillance of people who are a threat to you, but wait, guys, we're meant to be on your side, and you haven't been treating our privacy with a great deal of respect! >> You know, Saudi Arabia was our ally. You know, 9/11 happened because of them, their people, right? There is no ally here, and there is no enemy, in a way. We don't know where the rogue actors are sitting, like they don't know, they can be within the walls -- >> It's well understood I think, I agree, sorry. it's well understood that nation states are enabling terrorist groups to take out cyber attacks. That's well known, the source enables it. So, I think there's the privacy versus -- >> I'm not sure it's true in your case that it's Europeans that's doing this though. >> No, no, well you know, they share -- >> I'm a former officer in the Royal Navy, I've stood shoulder to shoulder with my U.S. counterparts. I put my life on the line on NATO exercises in real war zones, and I'm now a disabled ex-serviceman as a result of that. I mean, if I put my line on the line shoulder to shoulder with Americans, why is my privacy not respected? >> Hold on -- >> I feel it's, I was going to say actually that it's not that, like even the U.S., right? Part of the spying internally is we have internal actors that are behaving poorly. >> Yeah. >> Right, we have Marxist organizations posing as, you know, whatever it is, I'll leave it at that. But my point being is we've got a lot of that, every country has that, every country has actors and citizens and people in the system that are destined to try to overthrow the system. And I think that's what that surveillance is about. The question is, we don't have treaties, or we didn't have your explicit agreements. And that's why I'm pushing really hard here, like, they're separating privacy versus security, which is the national security, and privacy versus us as citizens in terms of our data being basically taken over for free, being used for free. >> John: I agree with that. >> That I think we have some agreement on. I just think that our governments haven't really had that conversation about what surveillance means. Maybe someone agreed and said, "Okay, that's fine. You guys can go do that, we won't tell anybody." And that's what it feels like. And I don't think we deliberately are saying, "Hey, we wanted to spy on your citizens." I think someone said, "Hey, there's a benefit here too." Otherwise I don't think the EU would have let this happen for that long unless Max had made that case and started this ball rolling, so, and Edward Snowden and other folks. >> Yeah, and I totally support the need for security. >> I want to enter the -- >> I mean we need to, where there are domestic terrorists, we need to stop them, and we need to have local action in UK to stop it happening here, and in America to stop it happening there. But if we're doing that, there is absolutely no need for the Americans to be spying on us. And there's absolutely no need for the Americans to say that privacy applies to U.S. citizens only, and not to Europeans, these are daft, it's just daft! >> That's a fair point. I'm sure GCHQ and everyone else has this covered, I mean I'm sure they do. (laughs) >> Oh, Bill, I know, I've been involved, I've been involved, and I know for a fact the U.S. and the UK are discussing I know a company called IronNet, which is run by General Keith Alexander, funded by C5 Capital. There's a lot of collaboration, because again, they're tryin' to get their arms around how to frame it. And they all agree that sharing data for the security side is super important, right? And I think IronNet has this thing called Iron Dome, which is essentially like they're saying, hey, we'll just consistency around the rules of shared data, and we can both, everyone can have their own little data. So, I think there's recognition at the highest levels of some smart people on both countries. (laughs) "Hey, let's work together!" The issue I have is just policy, and I think there's a lot of clustering going on. Clustered here around just getting out of their own way. That's my take on that. >> Are we a PG show? Wait, are we a PG show? I just got to remember that. (laughs) (Bill laughing) >> It's the internet, there's no regulation, there's no rules! >> There's no regulation! >> The European rules or is it the American rules? (Ray laughing) >> I would like to jump back quickly to the purpose of the surveillance, and especially when mass surveillance is done under the cover of national security and terror prevention. I worked with five clients in the past decade who all have been targeted under mass surveillance, which was revealed by Edward Snowden, and when they did their own investigation, and partially was confirmed by Edward Snowden in person, they found out that their purchasing department, their engineering department, big parts of their pricing data was targeted in mass surveillance. There's no way that anyone can explain me that that has anything to do with preventing terror attacks, or finding the bad guys. That is economical espionage, you cannot call it in any other way. And that was authorized by the same legislation that authorizes the surveillance for the right purposes. I'm all for fighting terror, and anything that can help us prevent terror from happening, I would be the first person to welcome it. But I do not welcome when that regulation is abused for a lot of other things under the cover of national interest. I understand -- >> Back to the lawmakers again. And again, America's been victim to the Chinese some of the individual properties, well documented, well known in tech circles. >> Yeah, but just 'cause the Chinese have targeted you doesn't give you free right to target us. >> I'm not saying that, but its abuse of power -- >> If the U.S. can sort out a little bit of reform, in the Senate and the House, I think that would go a long way to solving the issues that Europeans have right now, and a long way to sort of reaching a far better place from which we can all innovate and cooperate. >> Here's the challenge that I see. If you want to be instrumenting everything, you need a closed society, because if you have a free country like America and the UK, a democracy, you're open. If you're open, you can't stop everything, right? So, there has to be a trust, to your point, Bill. As to me that I'm just, I just can't get my arms around that idea of complete lockdown and data surveillance because I don't think it's gettable in the United States, like it's a free world, it's like, open. It should be open. But here we've got the grids, and we've got the critical infrastructure that should be protected. So, that's one hand. I just can't get around that, 'cause once you start getting to locking down stuff and measuring everything, that's just a series of walled gardens. >> So, to JD's point on the procurement data and pricing data, I have been involved in some of those kind of operations, and I think it's financial espionage that they're looking at, financial security, trying to figure out a way to track down capital flows and what was purchased. I hope that was it in your client's case, but I think it's trying to figure out where the money flow is going, more so than trying to understand the pricing data from competitive purposes. If it is the latter, where they're stealing the competitive information on pricing, and data's getting back to a competitor, that is definitely a no-no! But if it's really to figure out where the money trail went, which is what I think most of those financial analysts are doing, especially in the CIA, or in the FBI, that's really what that probably would have been. >> Yeah, I don't think that the CIA is selling the data to your competitors, as a company, to Microsoft or to Google, they're not selling it to each other, right? They're not giving it to each other, right? So, I think the one big problem I studied with FISA is that they get the data, but how long they can keep the data and how long they can mine the data. So, they should use that data as exhaust. Means like, they use it and just throw it away. But they don't, they keep mining that data at a later date, and FISA is only good for five years. Like, I learned that every five years we revisit that, and that's what happened this time, that we renewed it for six years this time, not five, for some reason one extra year. So, I think we revisit all these laws -- >> Could be an election cycle. >> Huh? >> Could be an election cycle maybe. (laughs) >> Yes, exactly! So, we revisit all these laws with Congress and Senate here periodically just to make sure that they are up to date, and that they're not infringing on human rights, or citizen's rights, or stuff like that. >> When you say you update to check they're not conflicting with anything, did you not support that it was conflicting with Privacy Shield and some of the promises you made to Europeans? At what point did that fail to become obvious? >> It does, because there's heightened urgency. Every big incident happens, 9/11 caused a lot of new sort of like regulations and laws coming into the picture. And then the last time, that the Russian interference in our election, that created some sort of heightened urgency. Like, "We need to do something guys here, like if some country can topple our elections, right, that's not acceptable." So, yeah -- >> And what was it that your allies did that caused you to spy on us and to downgrade our privacy? >> I'm not expert on the political systems here. I think our allies are, okay, loose on their, okay, I call it village politics. Like, world is like a village. Like it's so only few countries, it's not millions of countries, right? That's how I see it, a city versus a village, and that's how I see the countries, like village politics. Like there are two camps, like there's Russia and China camp, and then there's U.S. camp on the other side. Like, we used to have Russia and U.S., two forces, big guys, and they managed the whole world balance somehow, right? Like some people with one camp, the other with the other, right? That's how they used to work. Now that Russia has gone, hold on, let me finish, let me finish. >> Yeah. >> Russia's gone, there's this void, right? And China's trying to fill the void. Chinese are not like, acting diplomatic enough to fill that void, and there's, it's all like we're on this imbalance, I believe. And then Russia becomes a rogue actor kind of in a way, that's how I see it, and then they are funding all these bad people. You see that all along, like what happened in the Middle East and all that stuff. >> You said there are different camps. We thought we were in your camp! We didn't expect to be spied on by you, or to have our rights downgraded by you. >> No, I understand but -- >> We thought we were on your side! >> But, but you have to guys to trust us also, like in a village. Let me tell you, I come from a village, that's why I use the villager as a hashtag in my twitter also. Like in village, there are usually one or two families which keep the village intact, that's our roles. >> Right. >> Like, I don't know if you have lived in a village or not -- >> Well, Bill, you're making some great statements. Where's the evidence on the surveillance, where can people find more information on this? Can you share? >> I think there's plenty of evidence, and I can send some stuff on, and I'm a little bit shocked given the awareness of the FISA Act, the Cloud Act, the fact that these things are in existence and they're not exactly unknown. And many people have been complaining about them for years. I mean, we've had Safe Harbor overturned, we've had Privacy Shield overturned, and these weren't just on a whim! >> Yeah, what does JD have in his hand? I want to know. >> The Edward Snowden book! (laughs) >> By Edward Snowden, which gives you plenty. But it wasn't enough, and it's something that we have to keep in mind, because we can always claim that whatever Edward Snowden wrote, that he made it up. Every publication by Edward Snowden is an avalanche of technical confirmation. One of the things that he described about the Cisco switches, which Bill prefers to quote every time, which is a proven case, there were bundles of researchers saying, "I told you guys!" Nobody paid attention to those researchers, and Edward Snowden was smart enough to get the mass media representation in there. But there's one thing, a question I have for Sabjeet, because in the two parties strategy, it is interesting that you always take out the European Union as part. And the European Union is a big player, and it will continue to grow. It has a growing amount of trade agreements with a growing amount of countries, and I still hope, and I think think Bill -- >> Well, I think the number of countries is reducing, you've just lost one! >> Only one. (Bill laughing loudly) Actually though, those are four countries under one kingdom, but that's another point. (Bill chortling heartily) >> Guys, final topic, 5G impact, 'cause you mentioned Cisco, couldn't help think about -- >> Let me finish please my question, John. >> Okay, go ahead. How would you the United States respond if the European Union would now legalize to spy on everybody and every company, and every governmental institution within the United States and say, "No, no, it's our privilege, we need that." How would the United States respond? >> You can try that and see economically what happens to you, that's how the village politics work, you have to listen to the mightier than you, and we are economically mightier, that's the fact. Actually it's hard to swallow fact for, even for anybody else. >> If you guys built a great app, I would use it, and surveil all you want. >> Yeah, but so this is going to be driven by the economics. (John laughing) But the -- >> That's exactly what John said. >> This is going to be driven by the economics here. The big U.S. cloud firms are got to find this ruling enormously difficult for them, and they are inevitably going to lobby for a level of reform. And I think a level of a reform is needed. Nobody on your side is actually arguing very vociferously that the Cloud Act and the discrimination against Europeans is actually a particularly good idea. The problem is that once you've done the reform, are we going to believe you when you say, "Oh, it's all good now, we've stopped it!" Because with Crypto AG scandal in Switzerland you weren't exactly honest about what you were doing. With the FISA courts, so I mean FISA secret courts, the secret warrants, how do we know and what proof can we have that you've stopped doing all these bad things? And I think one of the challenges, A, going to be the reform, and then B, got to be able to show that you actually got your act together and you're now clean. And until you can solve those two, many of your big tech companies are going to be at a competitive disadvantage, and they're going to be screaming for this reform. >> Well, I think that, you know, General Mattis said in his book about Trump and the United states, is that you need alliances, and I think your point about trust and executing together, without alliances, it really doesn't work. So, unless there's some sort of real alliance, (laughs) like understanding that there's going to be some teamwork here, (Bill laughing) I don't think it's going to go anywhere. So, otherwise it'll continue to be siloed and network based, right? So to the village point, if TikTok can become a massively successful app, and they're surveilling, so and then we have to decide that we're going to put up with that, I mean, that's not my decision, but that's what's goin' on here. It's like, what is TikTok, is it good or bad? Amazon sent out an email, and they've retracted it, that's because it went public. I guarantee you that they're talkin' about that at Amazon, like, "Why would we want infiltration by the Chinese?" And I'm speculating, I have no data, I'm just saying, you know. They email those out, then they pull it back, "Oh, we didn't mean to send that." Really, hmm? (laughs) You know, so this kind of -- >> But the TRA Balin's good, you always want to get TRA Balin out there. >> Yeah, exactly. There's some spying going on! So, this is the reality. >> So, John, you were talking about 5G, and I think you know, the role of 5G, you know, the battle between Cisco and Huawei, you just have to look at it this way, would you rather have the U.S. spy on you, or would you rather have China? And that's really your binary choice at this moment. And you know both is happening, and so the question is which one is better. Like, the one that you're in alliance with? The one that you're not in alliance with, the one that wants to bury you, and decimate your country, and steal all your secrets and then commercialize 'em? Or the one kind of does it, but doesn't really do it explicitly? So, you've got to choose. (laughs) >> It's supposed to be -- >> Or you can say no, we're going to create our own standard for 5G and kick both out, that's an option. >> It's probably not as straightforward a question as, or an answer to that question as you say, because if we were to fast-forward 50 years, I would argue that China is going to be the largest trading nation in the world. I believe that China is going to have the upper hand on many of these technologies, and therefore why would we not want to use some of their innovation, some of their technology, why would we not actually be more orientated around trading with them than we might be with the U.S.? I think the U.S. is throwing its weight around at this moment in time, but if we were to fast-forward I think looking in the longterm, if I had to put my money on Huawei or some of its competitors, I think given its level of investments in research and whatever, I think the better longterm bet is Huawei. >> No, no, actually you guys need to pick a camp. It's a village again. You have to pick a camp, you can't be with both guys. >> Global village. >> Oh, right, so we have to go with the guys that have been spying on us? >> How do you know the Chinese haven't been spying on you? (Ray and John laughing loudly) >> I think I'm very happy, you find a backdoor in the Huawei equipment and you show it to us, we'll take them to task on it. But don't start bullying us into making decisions based on what-ifs. >> I don't think I'm, I'm not qualified to represent the U.S., but what we would want to say is that if you look at the dynamics of what's going on, China, we've been studying that as well in terms of the geopolitical aspects of what happens in technology, they have to do what they're doing right now. Because in 20 years our population dynamics go like this, right? You've got the one child policy, and they won't have the ability to go out and fight for those same resources where they are, so what they're doing makes sense from a country perspective and country policy. But I think they're going to look like Japan in 20 years, right? Because the xenophobia, the lack of immigration, the lack of inside stuff coming in, an aging population. I mean, those are all factors that slow down your economy in the long run. And the lack of bringing new people in for ideas, I mean that's part of it, they're a closed system. And so I think the longterm dynamics of every closed system is that they tend to fail versus open systems. So, I'm not sure, they may have better technology along the way. But I think a lot of us are probably in the camp now thinking that we're not going to aid and abet them, in that sense to get there. >> You're competing a country with a company, I didn't say that China had necessarily everything rosy in its future, it'll be a bigger economy, and it'll be a bigger trading partner, but it's got its problems, the one child policy and the repercussions of that. But that is not one of the things, Huawei, I think Huawei's a massively unlimited company that has got a massive lead, certainly in 5G technology, and may continue to maintain a lead into 6G and beyond. >> Oh yeah, yeah, Huawei's done a great job on the 5G side, and I don't disagree with that. And they're ahead in many aspects compared to the U.S., and they're already working on the 6G technologies as well, and the roll outs have been further ahead. So, that's definitely -- >> And they've got a great backer too, the financer, the country China. Okay guys, (Ray laughing) let's wrap up the segment. Thanks for everyone's time. Final thoughts, just each of you on this core issue of the news that we discussed and the impact that was the conversation. What's the core issue? What should people think about? What's your solution? What's your opinion of how this plays out? Just final statements. We'll start with Bill, Ray, Sarbjeet and JD. >> All I'm going to ask you is stop spying on us, treat us equally, treat us like the allies that we are, and then I think we've got to a bright future together! >> John: Ray? >> I would say that Bill's right in that aspect in terms of how security agreements work, I think that we've needed to be more explicit about those. I can't represent the U.S. government, but I think the larger issue is really how do we view privacy, and how we do trade offs between security and convenience, and you know, what's required for personalization, and companies that are built on data. So, the sooner we get to those kind of rules, an understanding of what's possible, what's a consensus between different countries and companies, I think the better off we will all be a society. >> Yeah, I believe the most important kind of independence is the economic independence. Like, economically sound parties dictate the terms, that's what U.S. is doing. And the smaller countries have to live with it or pick the other bigger player, number two in this case is China. John said earlier, I think, also what JD said is the fine balance between national security and the privacy. You can't have, you have to strike that balance, because the rogue actors are sitting in your country, and across the boundaries of the countries, right? So, it's not that FISA is being fought by Europeans only. Our internal people are fighting that too, like how when you are mining our data, like what are you using it for? Like, I get concerned too, when you can use that data against me, that you have some data against me, right? So, I think it's the fine balance between security and privacy, we have to strike that. Awesome. JD? I'll include a little fake check, fact check, at the moment China is the largest economy, the European Union is the second largest economy, followed directly by the USA, it's a very small difference, and I recommend that these two big parties behind the largest economy start to collaborate and start to do that eye to eye, because if you want to balance the economical and manufacturing power of China, you cannot do that as being number two and number three. You have to join up forces, and that starts with sticking with the treaties that you signed, and that has not happened in the past, almost four years. So, let's go back to the table, let's work on rules where from both sides the rights and the privileges are properly reflected, and then do the most important thing, stick to them! >> Yep, I think that's awesome. I think I would say that these young kids in high school and college, they need to come up and solve the problems, this is going to be a new generational shift where the geopolitical landscape will change radically, you mentioned the top three there. And new alliances, new kinds of re-imagination has to be there, and from America's standpoint I'll just say that I'd like to see lawmakers have, instead of a LinkedIn handle, a GitHub handle. You know, when they all go out on campaign talk about what code they've written. So, I think having a technical background or some sort of knowledge of computer science and how the internet works with sociology and societal impact will be critical for our citizenships to advance. So, you know rather a lawyer, right so? (laughs) Maybe get some law involved in that, I mean the critical lawyers, but today most people are lawyers in American politics, but show me a GitHub handle of that congressman, that senator, I'd be impressed. So, that's what we need. >> Thanks, good night! >> Ray, you want to say something? >> I wanted to say something, because I thought the U.S. economy was 21 trillion, the EU is sittin' at about 16, and China was sitting about 14, but okay, I don't know. >> You need to do math man. >> Hey, we went over our 30 minutes time, we can do an hour with you guys, so you're still good. (laughs) >> Can't take anymore. >> No go on, get in there, go at it when you've got something to say. >> I don't think it's immaterial the exact size of the economy, I think that we're better off collaborating on even and fair terms, we are -- >> We're all better off collaborating. >> Yeah. >> Gentlemen -- >> But the collaboration has to be on equal and fair terms, you know. (laughs) >> How do you define fair, good point. Fair and balanced, you know, we've got the new -- >> We did define fair, we struck a treaty! We absolutely defined it, absolutely! >> Yeah. >> And then one side didn't stick to it. >> We will leave it right there, and we'll follow up (Bill laughing) in a later conversation. Gentlemen, you guys are good. Thank you. (relaxing electronic music)

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of Veem on 2020 brought to you by beam. >>Hi buddy. Welcome back to the cubes. Ongoing coverage of Veem on 2020s Veem online 2020 I'm Dave Volante and Rick van overs here as a senior director of product strategy at Veem. Rick, it's always a great pleasure to see you. I wish we could see each other face to face. >>Yeah. You know, it's different this year, but, uh, yeah, it is always great to be on the cube. I think, uh, uh, in 2018 had an eight year gap and it's a N a couple of times we've been back since and yeah, happy to be back on the cube. >>So how's it going with you guys with the online format? I mean, breakouts are big for you cause you're, you're profiling some new products that we're going to get into, how's it all working for you? >>Well, it's been different. It's a good way to explain it in one word different, but the reality is I have a, uh, pardon, the language, a side hustle here, where at Veeam, I've worked with the event team to kind of bring the best content. And for the breakouts, that's an area that I've been working a lot with our speakers and our, some of our partners, external experts, users, and people who have, you know, beaten ransomware and stuff like that. But I've worked really hard to aggregate the content and get the best blend of content. And we kind of have taken an interesting approach where the breakouts are that library of content that we think organizations and the people who attend the event really take away the most. So we've got this full spectrum from R and D deep level stuff to just getting started type of stuff, and really all types of levels in between. And yeah, we want the breakouts to focus on generally available products, right? So I've worked pretty diligently to bring a good spread across the, uh, different products. And then a little secret trick we're doing is that into the summer, we're going to open up new content. So there's this broadcast agenda that we've got publicized, but then beyond that, we're going to sneak in some new content into the summer. >>Well, I'm glad you're thinking that way, because you know, a lot of what a lot of people are doing. There's a church trying to take their physical events and mirror it to the, to the digital or the virtual. And I think so often with physical events, people forget about the afterglow. And so I'm glad you guys are thinking about it upfront. >>Yeah. It has to be a mechanism that we've used it a couple of different ways, one to match how things are going to be released. Right? Cause being, we're always releasing products across the different set. I mean, we have one flagship product, but then the other products have their own cycles. So if something works well for that, we'll put it into the summer library. And then it's also a great opportunity for us to reach deep and get some content from people that we might not have been able to get before. In fact, we had one of our engineers who's based in Australia and great resource, great region, strong market for us, but I can't w if we were to have the in person event, I can't bring somebody from Australia for one session, but this was a great way to bring her expertise to the event without, you know, having the travel burden and different variety of speakers and different varieties of content. So there's ways that we've been able to build on it. But again, the top level word is definitely different, but I feel like it's working for sure. >>So Rick, give us the helicopter view of some of the product areas that we should be really be aware of as it relates to what you guys are doing at Veem on 2020. And then we'll, we'll drill in give us the high level though. >>Yeah. So for people attending the event and online, my advice really is that we're spread across about 75 to 80% of the content is for technical people. 20% of the content in the breakouts is going to be for decision makers or executives, that type. And then within that, the context of the technical content, we want to have probably 10 to 15% being like presenters from our R and D group. So very technical, uh, low level type discussions, highest level architect type stuff, kind of after that generic use cases, a nice and in the middle area, because we have a lot of people that are getting started with our products, like maybe they're new to the office three 65 backup, or they're new to backing up natively in the cloud. We have a lot of contexts around the virtual machine backup and storage integration, all those other great things, but the platform is kind of spread out at Veeam. There's a lot to take in. So the thought is wherever anyone is on their journey with any of the products and not some, that's a hard task to do with a certain number of slots. We want to provide something for everyone at every level. So that's the, that's the helicopter view. >>So let me ask you a couple of follow ups on that. So let's start with office three 65. Now you guys have shared data at this event, uh, talking about that most customers just say, Oh yeah, well, I trust Microsoft to do my backup. Well, of course, as we, well, well know it, backup is one thing, but recovery is everything. And so explain why, uh, what will explain the value that you guys bring? Why can't I just rely on the SAS vendor, uh, to, to do my backup and recovery? >>Well, there's a lot to that question, Dave, the number one thing I'll say is that at Veeam, we have partnerships with Microsoft. You have where HPE, all the household brands of it. And in many of these situations, we've always come into the market with the platform itself, providing a basic backup. I'll give windows, for example, anti backup, right? Yeah. Those, you know, it's there, but there's always a market for more capabilities, more functionality, more portability. So we've taken office three 65 is a different angle for backup. And we lead with the shared responsibility model, Microsoft as well as the other clouds, make it very clear that data classification and that responsibility of data that actually sits 100% with the customer. And so, yes, you can add things to the platform, but if we have organizations where we have things like I need to retain my content forever, or I need a discovery use case. >>And then if you think about broader use cases like one drive for business data, especially with the rapid shift of work from home organizations may not be not so much using the file server, but using things like one drive for business, for file exchanges, right? So having a control plane over that data is, is very important. So we really base it on the shared responsibility and Microsoft is one of our strongest partners. So they are very keen for us to provide solutions that are going to consume and move data around to, to meet customer needs in the cloud and in the SAS environment. For sure. So, you know, it's been a very easy conversation for our customers and it's our fastest growing product as well. So, uh, this, this product is doing great. Uh, I don't have the quarterly numbers, but we just released the mid part of Q4. We just released the newest release, which implemented object storage support. So that's been the big ask for our customers, right? So it's a, it's that product's doing great. >>Yeah. So, you know, that notion of shared responsibility, you hear that a lot in cloud security, you're applying it to cloud data protection, which, you know, security and data protection are now, you know, there's a lot of gray area between them now. Uh, and I think it's, you know, security is a, or data protection is a fundamental part of your security strategy, but that notion of shared responsibility is very important. And one that's oftentimes misunderstood because people hear, Oh, it's in the cloud. Okay. My cloud vendor has got to cover it, but what does, what does that shared responsibility mean? Ultimately, isn't it up to the customer to own the end end result. >>It is. And I look at, especially Microsoft, they classify their software for different ways on prem software, uh, software as a service, the infrastructure as a service. Uh, I forget what the third one is, but they have so many different ways that you can package their software, but in all of them, they put the data classification for the customer and it same for other clouds as well. And when, if I'm an organization today, if I'm running data in a SAS platform, if I am running systems in iOS platforms, in the hyperscale public clouds, that is an opportunity for me to really think about that control plane of the data and the backup and restore responsibility, because it has to be easy to use. It has to be very consumable so that customers can avoid that data loss or be in a situation where the complexity to do a restore is so miserable that they may not even want to go do it. I've actually had conversations with organizations as they come to Veeam. That was their alternative. Oh, it's just too painful to do. Like, why would you even do that? You know, so that, that shared responsibility model across the different data types in the cloud and on-premise well, and SAS models, that's really where we find the conversations go pretty nicely. >>Right. And if it's too complicated, you won't even bother testing it. So I want to ask you something about cloud native. You mentioned cloud native, your cloud native capabilities, um, and I'm, I'm inferring from that, that you basically are not just taking your on prem stack and shoving it into the cloud. You're actually taking advantage of the native cloud services. Can you, can you explain what's going on there and maybe some product specifics? >>Sure. So, you know, Veeam has this reputation of number one, VM backup, you know, here in my office, I have posters from all over the years and somewhere down here is number one, VM backup. And that's where we cut our teeth and got our name out there. But now if you're an Azure, if you're an Amazon, we have cloud native backup products available. In fact, the last time you and I spoke was that an Amazon reinvent where we launched the Amazon product. And then last month we launched the Azure product, which provides cloud native backup for Azure. And so now we have this cloud feature parody and those products are going to move very quickly as well. We've had the software as a service product for office three 65, where we keep adding services. And we saw in the general session, we're going to add protection for a new service in office three 65. >>So we're going to continue to innovate around these different areas. And there's also another cloud that we announced a capability for as well. So, you know, the platform at Veem it's growing, and it's amazing to see this happen cause you know, customers are making cloud investments and there's no cloud for all right. So some organizations like this cloud that cloud are a little bit of these two clouds combined. So we have to really go into the cloud with customer needs in mind because there's no one size fits all approach to the cloud, but their data, everybody knows how important that is. >>So to that end though, each, each cloud is going to have a set of native services and you've got to develop specific to that cloud, right? So that you can have the most, the lowest, highest performance, the most efficient, the lowest cost data protection solution backup and recovery possible is that, I mean, taking advantage of those native cloud services is going to be unique for each cloud, right? Because AWS has cloud and Azure cloud. Those are, those are different, you know, technically underneath, is that, is that right? >>You're absolutely right. And the cost models, they have different behaviors across the clouds. In fact, the breakout that I did here at the event with Melissa Palmer, those who are interested in the economics of the cloud should check that out because the cloud is all about consuming those resources. When I look at backup, I don't want backup to be a cost prohibitive insurance policy. Basically I want backup to be a cost effective yet resilient technology that when we're using the cloud, we can kind of balance all these needs. And one of the ways that beam's done that is we've put in cost estimators, which it's not that big of a like flashy part of the user interface, but it's so powerful to customers. The thought is if I want to consume infrastructure as a service in the cloud, and I want to back up via API calls, snapshots to ECE, two instances only nice and high performance, nice and fast. >>But the cost profile of that if I kept them for a year is completely different than if I used object storage. And what we're doing with the Veeam backup for Azure and Amazon products is we're putting those numbers right there in the wizard. So you could say, Hey, I want to keep two years of data. And I have snapshots and I have object storage, totally different cost profiles. And I'll put those costs testaments in there. And you can make egregious examples where it'll be like 10 and 20 X the price, but it really allows customers to get it fast, to get it cost efficient. And more importantly, at the end of the day, have that protection that they need. And that's, you know, that's something that I've been trying to evangelize at this cost. Estimator is a really big deal. >>Yeah. Provides transparency so that you can let the business, you know, drive sort of what the, what the data protection level is as opposed to sort of either, whether it's a one size fit all or you're under protected or overprotected and spending too much, I asked Anton is going to kind of, how do you prioritize it? Because basically his answer was we look at the economics and then ultimately you're giving tools to allow the customer to decide, >>Yeah, you don't want to have that surprise cloud bill at the end of the month. You don't want to have, um, you know, waste in the cloud and Anton's right. The economics are very important. The modeling process that we use is interesting. I had a chat with one of the product managers who is basically in charge of our cloud economic modeling and to the organizations out there. This is a really practical bit is, think about modeling, think about cloud economics, because here's the very important part. If you've already implemented something it's too late and what I mean by that, the economics, if they're not right when you implement it, so you're not modeling ahead of time. Once you implement, you can monitor it all you want, but you're just going to monitor it off the model. So the thought is, this is all a backwards process. You have to go backwards with the economics, with the modeling, and that will lead you to no surprises down the road. For sure. >>I want to ask you about the COVID impact generally, but specifically as it relates to ransomware, I mean, we've had a lot more inquiries regarding ransomware. There's certainly a lot more talk about it in the press. What have you seen, uh, specifically with respect to ransomware since the pandemic and since the lockdown. >>So that's something that's near and dear to my heart on the technology team here at product strategy, everyone has like a little specialization industry specialization. Ransomware's mine. So good ask. So the one thing that sticks out to me a lot is identifying where ransomware comes in and around. I have one data point that indicated around 58 or so percent of ransomware comes in through remote desktop. And the thought here is if we have shifted to remote access and new working models, what really worries me, Dave is when people hustle, when people hurry and the thought here is you can have it right. Or you can have it right now in mid March, we needed to make a move right now. So I worry about UN UN incomplete security models, right? People hurrying to, um, implement and maybe not taking their security, right. Especially when you think about most ransomware can come in through remote desktop. >>I thought fish attacks were the main attack vector, but I had some data points that told me this. So I have been, and I just completed a great white paper that those watching this can go to dot com and download. But the thought here is I just completed a great white paper on tips to beat ransomware and yes, Veeam has capabilities, but here's the logic. Dave. I like to explain it this way, beating ransomware. And we had a breakout that I recorded here at the event, encourage everyone to watch that I had two users share their story of how they beat ransomware with Veem. Two very different ways too. Any product is, or is not necessarily ransomware resilient. It's like going through an audit. And what I mean by that is people ask me all the time is being compliant to this standard or that standard it's 100% dictated how the product's implemented, how the product's audited, same with ransomware. >>It's 100% dictated on how Veem is implemented. And then what's the nature of the exploit. And so I break it down to three simple things. We have to educate. We have to know what threats are out there. We have to know who is accessing, what data. And then the big part of it is the implementation. How have we implemented Veeam? Are we keeping data in immutable buckets in the cloud? Are we keeping data with an air gap? And then three, the remediation when something does happen, how do we go about solving that problem? I talked to our tech support team who deals with it every day and they have very good insights, very good feedback on this phenomena. And that they've helped me shape some of the recommendations I put in the paper. But, uh, yeah, it's a 30 page paper. I don't know if I can summarize it here. That's a long one for me, but, uh, the threats real, and this is something we'll never be done with. Right. I have, I've done two other papers on it and I'm going to have another one soon after that, but we're building stuff into the product. We're educating the market. And, um, you know, we're winning, we're seeing like I had the two customers, um, beat ransomware, great stories. I think I learned so much hearing from someone who's gone through it and that you can find that in the, in the Vermont broadcast for those attending here. >>Well, you've touched on a couple of having them take advantage of the cloud guys who have these immutable mutable buckets that you can, you can leverage. Um, a lot of people don't even don't even know about that. Um, and then, like you say, create an air gap and presumably there's best practice around how often you write to that bucket and how often you create, you know, that air gap you may be, you may be change up the patterns. I don't know other, other thoughts on that. >>Well, I collectively put, I've created a term and uh, nobody's questioning me on it yet, so that's good, but I'm calling it ultra resilient storage. And what I'm referring to is that immutable backup in the cloud. And if we, it becomes a math calculation, you know, if you have one data point in there, that's good. But if you had a week's worth of data points, that's better. If you had a month's worth of data points, that's even better. But of course those cost profiles are going to change. Same thing with tape tapes, a an air gap, removable media, and I go back and forth on this, but some of the more resilient storage snapshot engines can do ultra resilient techniques as well, such as like, uh, pure storage, safe mode and NetApp snap fall. And then the last thing is actually a Veeam technology. It's been out for three, four years now, insider protection. >>It's a completely out of band copy of backup data that that Veeam cloud connect offers. So my thought here is that these ultra resilient types, those are best defense in these situations. And, you know, it's, it's a, it becomes a calculated risk of how much of it do I want to keep, because I want to have the most restore options available. I want to have no data loss, but I also don't want it old. Right. You know, there's a huge decline in value taking your business back a year ago, because that's the last tape you had, for example, I want today's or yesterday's backup if I'm in that type of situation. So I go through a lot of those points in my paper, but I hope that, um, those out there fighting the war on ransomware have the tools. I know they have the tools to win with them. >>Well, it's like we were talking about before and ransomware is a really good example of the, the blurring lines between security and backup and recovery. Of course. Uh, what role do analytics play in terms of providing transparency and identifying anomalous behavior in the whole ransomware equation? >>Well, the analytics are very important and I have to be really kind of be transparent, you know, VMs, backup company, right? We're not a security tool, but this is it's getting awfully close. And the, I don't want to say the long form historical definition of it. Security was something around this thing called a CIA triad, maintaining confidentiality, integrity, and availability of data. So security tools are really big on the confidentiality and integrity side of it. But on the availability side, that's ravine can come in. So the analytics come in to our play pretty naturally, right? We have, the Veem has had for years now, uh, an alarm that detects abnormal behavior in regards to CPU rights or CPU usage and disk, right IO. Like if there's both of those or abnormally high, that this is what we call possible ransomware activity. Or if we have a incremental backup, that is like 100% change rate, that's a bad sign, right. >>Things like that. And then the other angle is even on PCs desktops like this computer, I'm talking to you now on w we have just simple logic of, once you take a backup eject the drive. So it's offline, right? So analyzing where the threats come from, what kind of behavior they're going to have when we apply it to backup. Veem can have these built in analytic engines that are just transparently there for our customers. There's no deep reeducation necessary to use these, but the thought is we want a very flexible model. That's going to just provide simple ease of use, and then allow that protection with the threatscape to help it help the customers where we can, because no two ransomware threats are the same. That's the other thing. They are so varied in what they do everything from application specific to files. And now there's these new ones that upload data. The ransom is actually a data leak. They're not encrypting the data. They're just the ransom is to take down potentially huge amounts of data leakage, right? So, um, all kinds of threat actors out there for sure. >>You know, it's a last kind of line of questioning here. Rick is, as I've said, a number of times, it's just, it's ironic that we're entering this new decade in this pandemic hits. And everybody talks about the acceleration of certain trends. But if you think about the trends, you know, last decade, it's always performance and costs. We talked a lot about granularity. We talked about, you know, simplicity, you guys expanded your number of use cases. Uh, the, the support, the compatibility matrix, if you will, all those things are sort of things that you've executed on. As you look forward to this coming decade, we talked about cloud. I mean, we were talking about cloud, you know, back in the, in 2008, 2009 time frame, but it was a relatively small portion of the business. Now everybody's talking cloud. So cloud cloud, native DePaul discussion on ransomware and maybe even broader business resiliency, digital transformation, we've been, we've been given lip service in a lot of cases to digital transformation. All of a sudden that's changed. So as you put on, you pull out the telescope and look forward to the trends that are going to drive your thinking in themes, decision making. What do you look toward? >>Well, I think that laser focused on four things, backup solutions for cloud workloads, and there's incredible opportunity there, right? So yes, we have a great Azure story, great Amazon story. And in the keynote, we indicated the next cloud capability, but there's still more, there's more services in the cloud that we need to go after. There's also the sass pocket. We have a great office, three 65 story, but there's other SAS products that we could provide a story for. And then the physical and virtual platforms. I mean, I feel really confident there we've got really good capabilities, but there's always the 1%. And you know, what's in the corner. What's the 1% of the 1%, right? And those are workloads we can continue to go after. But my thought is, as long as we attack those four areas, we're going to be on a good trajectory to deliver on that promise of being that most trusted provider of cloud data management for backup solutions. >>So my thought here is that we're going to just keep adding products. And it's very important to make it sometimes a new product. We don't want to just bolt it on to backup and replication via 11 or be 10 for that, for that matter, because it'll slow it down, right? The cloud native products are going to have to have their own cadence, their own independent, um, development cycles. And they're going to move faster, right? Because they'll need to, so you'll, you'll see us continuing to add new products, new capabilities, and sometimes it'll, it'll intermix, you know, and that's, that's, that's the whole definition of a platform when one product is talking to another, from a management side, a control plane, given customer portability, all that stuff. So we're going to just go after a cloud, virtual, physical SAS, and new products and new capabilities to do it. >>Well, Rick, it's always a pleasure talking to you. Your home studio looks great. You look good. And, but, but nonetheless, hopefully we'll be able to see each other face to face here shortly. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you, Dave. >>All right. And thank you for watching. Everybody's Dave Vellante and our continuous coverage of the Mon 2020, the online version of right back, right after this short break.

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with coverage of SUSECON Digital, brought to you by SUSE. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman. And this is theCUBE's coverage of SUSECON Digital '20. Really excited we get to talk to the SUSE executives, their partners and their customers. In this segment, we have one of the customers, he's in the keynote and really excited to talk to him, Günther Tschabushnig and he is the CIO of ZAMG. If you're not familiar with them, they are the Central Institute for meteorology and geodynamics, the oldest weather service in the world, based out of Austria. Günther, thank you so much for joining us. Great to see you. >> Thank you for being here, thank you. >> All right, so obviously weather something we are very interested on theCUBE. We talk how important data is. And data, is it for central to what your service is doing, providing data, the organizations, they can do lots with it. Give us a little bit, we probably don't have time to go through the 150 plus, years history of the organization, but tell us a little bit about what your organization does, and especially your role as CIO. What's involved with that? >> Oh, let me hook you in. One thing you said, we have the oldest, weather service in the world. I always tell people, we are doing big data analytics between until 1851. And actually that's true. We have actually two big data centers based in Austria. We are operating about 20 petabytes of data, 100,000 data sets per minute. What is very, very interesting for tech guys. We have one small data center additional on over 3000 meters above sea level on the observatory. It's in the middle of the glacier. Can't imagine how cool that is. When you go up, into the glacier and yeah, you have a lot of sensors, a lot of measurements and a lot of data collecting, configurations. Actually, we are also using a lot of super-computers. We do simulating, we do a lot of AI. We did big data analytics and the most important thing, we do a lot of cooperation with the people that are out there. >> Yeah, in 1851, wasn't exactly super-computers. You're gathering data from a lot of sources. Help us understand a little bit. What are some of the, asks that the business have for you? What are the kind of challenges? In 2020, that might be a little bit different than they were years ago. >> Weather comes from, but different source, actually in 1851, it was more for the King, for their wars. Nowadays it's much more peaceful, thank, God. It's more for sporting, it's more for producing things. It's a lot for logistics, but it's actually for all the human people are out there, and therefore we have to use a lot of data, a lot of processes and a lot of different customer journeys. Our most important thing is customer first. So we try to produce, our full costs, our, integrated processes, especially for the customers. Justin, quick example is, the Olympic winter games. The ZMAG is doing the forecast for the last two, winter games, because we are doing now casting and we're very good at now casting that means the forecast between the next five minutes to 15 minutes, with, what's it call a breath of 100, 150 meters, which is very, very important for, some kind of events. But we do other forecast as well. The only thing we cannot forecast but we also to, earthquakes, that means naturally earthquakes on the one side, on the other side, artificial earthquakes, which are produced through, normally bombs or nuclear bombs. And, we are working with the CTBTO, the UN organization together to analyze and to measure is illegally, nuclear tests. To make the world a little bit a better place. >> Yeah, so Günther it's interesting you mentioned in the early days it was, weather for the king. One of the things we look about in data, especially in the public sector is what data, where do you collected from? How much hearing is there? Can you talk a little bit about, how it goes kind of beyond your borders and is there, I guess, how do you work with other organizations there any of data that shared any of the models? How does that work together in your organization? >> The most important thing is the link data to link our data to other organizations and to collect other data from other organizations. It's not forecast anymore. It's forecast, integrating into processes, especially in the business processes. Weather doesn't stop at the borders. That's a good thing. So we had a lot of collaboration with our neighbors. We found a weather services from our neighbors. That's one thing. I have them, the big picture. For, our models for our simulations. But what we also do is a lot of crowd data. Because the more data we get, the more data we can assimilate into our model. The better, the higher is the resolution of our forecast, so we do a lot of integration of this crowd source weather, that could be on the one hand, a simple app that could be a weather station, in our, in your home. But that could also be a photograph. What did you do with your smartphone? Well, we do artificial intelligence algorithms. To get out the information about clouds, about damages, what we integrate again in our models, in our simulations. And give you the better forecast as a response. We have a big, cooperation, for example, with, the Austrian fire department. They get the best forecasts we can ever do. A specialist forecast for the emergencies. When does, a fire in the woods, for example, they need a special soil moisture for example, then wind directions. Do we need wind strengths? They can use this on their smartphone. They can, use the smart watch. They do pictures after emergency, send it back to us. We analyze it and do a live modeling through our super-computers. To have a better forecast on this place. >> Excellent, now you talked about a bit about communities, leveraging, a lot of different technologies, I guess that's a good way for us to help connect the dots to us talking here to at SUSECON. Obviously, open-source, the communities, the piece of what we or hearing at the show. Talk to us a little bit about SUSE , what technologies are using them, what's the role of open-source, is that, the piece of how you look at technology. >> Nothing is more boring than they get weather from yesterday. So what we need is a really fast development of our forecasts, to our customers. And SUSE helps us, there. We have special services, especially on our ship of computers. Well, we use the special SUSE ranking system. We use SUSE, on our storage systems on our software defined storage system. To have a, we can develop man, to our customers, to our cooperation partners. And, the last big thing is we use SUSE containering, that forms, and on AI platforms. So the new SUSE AI platform, we tried to do forecasts for avalanches, for snow avalanches and that's a really, really big effort at the moment, because there are people dying every year in Austria and in the Alps, because of avalanches. And maybe we can save some of them, because we do have good forecast together with SUSE. >> Excellent, you talk about moving to containerization, gives a little insight. You are a government agency. How easy it is for you to take advantage of new technologies? Any guidance you can give as to things that you've through that might be able to help? >> Innovation and new technologies, but kind of moving on the edge, because on the one hand we have 24/7, the whole year long, we have to be high availability. We have a very stable, on the other hand, we want to have new technologies, new innovations. So it's really, really working on the edge. We use two groups, two separate data centers. On one hand, we do the all the stable thing. The high availability things on the other things. On the other data center, on other group, they are doing the true new things. They do containerization, they do blockchain and they do artificial intelligent moves. And the thing is they are working together. They are connected, that means tell it this way. We have a very, very experienced, head of our one group, our stable 24/7 group, and very, very young high potential or not innovation group. To be honest, first two weeks they hated each other, because one guy wanted to have the innovation and going forward and forward and forward, and the other one said, "No stop, we have to be stable. "That's the most important thing." After four weeks with a lot of maintenance for sure, and with a lot of guidance, they started to love each other because they can learn from each other. And that's the main point. We learned about all of these things. Now we can combine, stable with technology, with new technology, with cool, new things, which can be proved in the one side and integrate that in the stable side, a little later. >> That's an excellent story to learn from, learning so important, great to hear that the more traditional, reliable group and the new innovation group work together. Of course we can't let you go talking about weather without touching on climate. So, anybody that's watched the space with his global pandemic has some interesting, I guess you'd say, positive side effects, there are parts of the world where pollution's cleaned up, major impacts, on climate that, I'd expect you have some interesting data on. What can you share, when it comes to climate change? Any advice, you'd give for business leaders, that are looking to help contribute in a positive way. >> Okay, sure actually, a data center, we are also data hub for the ESA, the European Space Agency for their sentinel data. This data is very interesting, because it hasn't direct shows and direct impact how the climate is changing. The most important thing I can tell you as a CIO, it is changing. That's the most important thing. What we are looking for is how can we combine data, to stop this climate change. How can we show other leaders, politicians, etc. How to stop it, how can we work against it, and how they can be cooperate, work against. The thing is if we only show us the weather service, our climate data, that's nice to have. You see what a curve that's going to be warmer and warmer and the parameters are changing, but that's not the goal. The goal is, how can we work together? How can we link data together? To stop pollution, to stop several kind of attributes. To stop climate change. We started to do some collaborations with big companies. One of these is SUSE. One of these is Hewlett Packard, to work together. To combine resources, to combine a compute power, to combine storage, to combine knowledge, especially data to stop climate change. >> Excellent, so Günther final question is, anything you've been seeing strange, being a CIO, a question we always have, something we heard in the keynote is the changing role of the CIO. You talked a bit about AI, talked about, you live with actual cloud, and super-computers. So what in 2020 is kind of different about the role of CIO? >> What I really learned is IT, it's the supporting accompany or the supporting department anymore. IT is, the strategic partner of each domain we have, we had all our scientists and they always told us, "We had a scientist and we need IT." From several years now, they started to work together with the IT, with Artificial Intelligence, with big data analytics, with several platforms, both integrations, how to, solve problems. So the CIO especially, is not the IT leader anymore, it's more the management part of the management board. So that means, the integration of the CIO in the whole company is much, much more then it was several years ago. Meg Whitman, I met years ago and we had a good talk, told me there is no company anymore without IT. That's not correct. There's no company anymore that is IT. Even every culture is IT, everything is IT. It's no support anymore, it's linking anymore. >> Excellent, yeah Günther, such an important point to talk about if a company, is going to thrive in the modern era. Data is such a critical piece of that gives you as a CIO, a seat at the table to work closely with them, because if the business needs to be driven by data, the CIO's role of connecting IT in the business, so important. Thank you so much for sharing your stories. Pleasure to talk with you. >> Thank you, it was a pleasure. >> All right, and we'll be back with more coverage from SUSECON Digital '20. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)