(bright upbeat music) >> Welcome, everyone, to this CUBE Conversation featuring Imply. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. Today, we are excited to be joined by FJ Yang, the co-founder and CEO of Imply. FJ, thanks so much for joining us today. >> Lisa, thank you so much for having me. >> Tell me a little bit about yourself and about Imply. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, I started Imply a couple years ago and before start the company, I was a technologist. So, I was a software engineer and software developer primarily specializing in distributed systems. And one of the projects I worked on, ultimately became kind of the centerpiece behind Imply. Imply, as a company is a database company. What we do is we provide developers a powerful tool in order to help them build various types of data analytic applications. We're also an open source company, where the company develops a popular open source project called Apache Druid. >> Got it, so database as a service for modern analytics applications. You're also one of the original authors of Apache Druid. Talk to me, gimme a timeline, Druid's 10-year history or so. What's the big picture? What's been the market evolution that you've seen? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, I moved out to Silicon Valley basically to try and work at a startup, 'cause I was enamored with startups and I thought they were the coolest thing ever. So, at one point, I basically joined the smallest startup I could find. It was a startup called Metamarkets, which actually doesn't exist anymore, it was ultimately acquired by Snapchat a couple years ago. But, I was one of the first employees there. And what we were trying to do at the time, was we were trying to build an analytics application, a user-facing application where people could slice and dice various types of data. At the time, the data sets we were working with were like online advertising, digital advertising data sets which were very large and complex. And, we really struggled to find a database that could basically power the kind of interactive and user experience that we know we want to provide our end customers. So, what ended up happening was we decided to build our own database and we were a three or five-person shop when we decided to build our own database, and that was Druid. And over time, we saw many other types of companies actually struggle with a similar set of problems, albeit with very different types of use cases and very different types of data sets. And, the Druid community kind of grew and evolved from that. And in my work in engaging with the community, what I saw was a market opportunity and a market gap and that's where Imply formed. >> Let's double click on that. You talked about why you built Druid, the problem you were looking to solve. But, talk to me about the role that Imply has. >> Right. So, Imply is a commercial company. What we do is we build kind of an end-to-end enterprise product around Druid as the core engine. Imply provides deployment, it deploys management, it provides security, and it also provides visualization and monitoring pieces around Druid as a core engine. What we aim to do at Imply is really enable developers to build various types of data applications with only the click of a few buttons and interacting with a simple set of APIs. So, the goal is, if you're a developer, you don't have to think about managing the database yourself, you don't have to think about the operational complexity at the database, but instead, what you do is just work with APIs and build your application. >> So, then what gives Druid its superpower? What makes Druid Druid? >> Yeah, so, Druid, the easiest way to think about it, is it's a really fast calculator and it's a very fast calculator for a whole lot of data. So, when you have a whole lot of data and you want to crunch numbers very, very quickly, Druid is very good at doing that. And, people always ask me this question, which is, what makes Druid special? And I always struggle with it, because it's never just one thing, it's actually layers, upon layers, upon layers of engineering. You start with fundamentals of how you maximally optimize the resources of any hardware. So, how do you maximize storage? How do you maximize compute? And then, there's a lot of optimizations around how do you store the data? How do you access that data in a very fast way once it's stored in order to run computations very quickly? So, unfortunately, there's no silver bullet about Druid, but maybe I can summarize in this way. Druid, it's like a search system, and a data warehouse, and a time series database all mixed together. And, that architecture enables it to be very, very quickly. And unfortunately, if you don't know what some of the components I'm talking about are, it's hard to describe where the secret sauce is (chuckling). >> Sometimes you want to keep that secret sauce secret. Talk to me about the overall data space, as we see these days, every company is a data company or if it's not, it needs to be to be successful. Where does Druid fit in the overall data space? Give us that picture of where it fits. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, it's pretty interesting that you see now in the public markets as well as the private markets, some of the hottest unicorns out there are actually data companies. And, I think what people are are understanding now for the first time, is just how vast and complex the data space is and also how large the market is as well. So for sure, there's many different components and pieces in the data space, and they oftentimes come together to form what's known as a data stack. So, data stack is basically kind of an architecture that has various systems and each of these systems are designed to do a certain set of things very, very well. For example, a company that recently went public is a company called Confluent, which mostly catered towards data transport, so getting data from one place to another. They're built around an open source engine called Apache Kafka. Databricks is another mega unicorn that's going to go public pretty soon. And they're built around an open source project called Spark, which is mainly used for data processing. Where we sit is on the data query side. So, what that means is we're a system in which people can store data and then access that data very, very quickly. And there's other systems that do that, but where our bread and butter is, is we're building some sort of application, where you have end users that are clicking buttons in order to get access to data, we're a platform that enables the best end user experience. We return queries very, very quickly with a consistent SLA, we immediately visualize data as soon as it's made available, and then we can support many, many, many concurrent end users to access the system at the same time. >> So, real time. One of the things I think that we learned during the pandemic, one of the many things is that access to real time data, it's no longer a nice to have, it is table stakes for, as I said, every company, these days is a data company. So with how you describe it, how should people think of Druid versus a data warehouse? >> Yeah. So, that's a great question. And obviously, data warehouses have been around since the 70s. In the B2B space, they're among the largest players that kind of exist in enterprise software. So, it's only natural that when you come up with sort of a new analytics database, that people compare it with what they already know, which is data warehouse. So, a lot of how we think about why we're different than data warehouse goes back to how I answered the previous question, and that we're focused right now, really, on powering different types of data applications. Data applications are UIs in which people are really accessing and getting insights from data by clicking buttons versus writing more complex equal queries. And when you click buttons and you get access to data, what you want in terms of an end user experience, is you want answers to questions to come back almost immediately. So you don't want to click a button and then see a spinning dial that goes on for minute and minutes before an answer comes back. You basically want results to come back immediately. You want that experience no matter what types of queries that you're issuing or how many people are issuing those queries. If you have thousands, if not tens of thousands of people that are trying to access data exact same time, you want to give a consistent user experience like Google, which is one of my favorite products. There're millions of people that use Google, and ask questions and they get their answers back immediately. So we try to provide that same experience, but instead of a generic search engine, what we're doing is we're providing a system that basically answers questions on data and users get a very interactive and fast experience when asking questions. And that's something that I think is very different than what data warehouses are primarily specialized in. Data warehouses are really designed to be systems in which people write very large complex sequel queries that might take minutes or hours sometimes to run. But the experience of using a data warehouse to power and application is not a great one. >> So, I'm just curious, FJ, in the last couple of years, with, as I mentioned before the access to real time data no longer a nice to have, but it's something business critical for so many industries, did you see any industries in particular in the recent years that were really primed candidates for what Druid would can deliver? >> Yeah, that's a great question. And you can imagine that the industries that really heavily rely on fast decision making are the ones that are earliest to adopt technologies like this. So, in the security space, and the observability space, as well as working with networking and various forms of backend kind of metrics data, this system has been very popular and it's been popular because people need to triage (indistinct) as they occur, they need to resolve problems, and they also need immediate visibility, as well as very fast queries on data. Another space is online advertising. Online advertising, nowadays is almost entirely programmatic and digital. So, response times are critical in order to make decisions. And that's where Druid was actually born. It was born for advertising before it kind of went everywhere else. We're seeing it more in fraud protection, fraud prevention as well as fraud diagnostics nowadays. We're seeing it in retail as well, which is pretty interesting. And, the goal, of course, is I believe every industry and every vertical needs the capabilities that we provide. So hopefully, we see a whole lot more use cases in the near future. >> Right, it's absolutely horizontal these days. So, 10-year history, you've got a community of thousands, what's the future of Druid? What do you see when you open the crystal ball and look now down the 12 months, 18 months road? >> Yeah. So, I think as a technologist, your goal as the technologist, at least for me, is to try and create technology that has as much applicability as possible and solves problems for as many people as possible. That's always the way I think about it. So, I want to do good engineering and I want to build good systems. And I think what the hallmark of a really good system is you can solve all different types of problems and condense all these different problems, actually into the same set of models and the same set of principles. And, a thing that makes me most excited about Druid is the many, many different industries that it's found value and the many different use cases it's found value. So, if I were to give 30,000 foot roadmap, that's what we're trying to do with the next generation of Druid. We're actually doing a pretty major engine upgrade right now, and pretty major overhaul the entire system. And the goal of that is to take all the learnings that we've had over the last decade and to create something new that can solve an expanded set of problems that we've heard from the community and from other places as well. >> Excellent. FJ, exciting work that you've done the last 10 years. Congratulations on that. Looking forward to the roadmap that you talked about. Thanks for sharing what Druid is, the Imply connection, and all the different use cases where it applies. We appreciate your insights. >> Appreciate you having me on the show. Thank you very much. >> My pleasure. For FJ Yang, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching this CUBE Conversation, the leader in live tech enterprise coverage. (bright upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE. Covering Google Cloud Next on Air '20. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman. And this is theCUBE's coverage of Google Cloud Next On Air. One of the weeks that they had for the show is to dig deep into infrastructure, of course, one of the foundational pieces when we talk about cloud, so happy to welcome to the program, I've got two of the general managers for both compute and networking. First of all, welcome back one of our cube alumni, June Yang, who's the vice president of compute and also welcoming Shailesh Shukla who's the vice president and general manager of networking both with Google Cloud. Thank you both so much for joining us. >> Great to be here. >> Great to be here, thanks for inviting us Stu. >> So June, if I can start with, you know, one of the themes I heard in the keynote that you gave during the infrastructure week was talking about, we talked about meeting customers where they are, how do I get, you know, all of my applications that I have, obviously some of them are building new applications. Some of them I'm doing SaaS, but many of them, I have to say, how do I get it from where I am to where I want to be and then start taking advantage of cloud and modernization and new capabilities. So if you could, you know, what's new when it comes to migration from a Google Cloud standpoint and, you know, give us a little bit insight as to what you're hearing from your customers. >> Yeah, definitely happy to do so. I think for many of our customers, migration is really the first step, right? A lot of the applications on premise today so the goal is really how do I move from on prem to the cloud? So to that extend, I think we have announced a number of capabilities. And one of the programs that are very exciting that we have just launched is called RAMP program which stands for Google Cloud Rapid Assessment and Migration Program. So it's really kind of bundling a holistic approach of you know, kind of programs tooling and you know, as well as incentives altogether to really help customer with that kind of a journey, right? And then also on the product side, we have introduced a number of new capabilities to really ease that transition for customer to move from on premise to the cloud as well. One of the things we just announced is Google Cloud VMware Engine. And this is really, you know, we built as a native service inside Google as a (indistinct) to allow customer to run their VMware as a service on top of Google infrastructure. So customers can easily take their, you know, what's running on premise, that's running VMware today and move it to cloud was really no change whatsoever and really lift and shift. And your other point is really about a modernization, right? Cause most of our customers coming in today, it's not just about I'm running this as a way it is. It's also, how do I extract value out of this kind of capability? So we build this as a service so that customer can easily start using services like BigQuery to be able to extract data and insights out of this and to be able to give them additional advantages and to create new services and things like that. And for other customers who might want to be able to, you know, leverage our AI, ML capability, that's at their fingertips as well. So it's just really trying to make that process super easy. Another kind of class of workloads we see is really around SAP, right? That's our bread and butter for many enterprises. So customers are moving those out into the clouds and we've seen many examples really kind of really, allow customers to take the data that's sitting in SAP HANA and be able to extract more value out of those. Home Depot is a great example of those and where they're able to leverage the inquiry to take, you know, their stockouts and some of the inventory management and really to the next level, and really giving a customer a much better experience at the end of the day. So those are kind of just a few things that we're doing on that side to really make you a customer easy to lift and shift and then be able to modernize along the way. >> Well yeah, June, if I would like to dig in a little bit on the VMware piece that you talked about. I've been talking of VM-ware a bit lately, talking to some of their customers leveraging the VMware cloud offerings and that modernization is so important because the traditional way you think about virtualization was I stick something in a VM and I leave it there and of course customers, I want to be able to take advantage of the innovation and changes in the cloud. So it seems like things like your analytics and AI would be a natural fit for VMware customers to then get access to those services that you're offering. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think we have lots of customers, that's kind of want to differentiators that customers are looking for, right? I can buy my VMware in a variety of places, but I want to be able to take it to the next level. How do I use data as my differentiator? You know, one of the core missions as part of the Google mission is really how do we help customers to digitally transform and reimagine their business was a data power innovation, and that's kind of one key piece we know we want to focus on, and this is part of the reason why we built this as really a native service inside of Google Cloud so that you're going through the same council using, you know, accessing VMware engine, accessing BigQuery, accessing networking, firewalls, and so forth, all really seamlessly. And so it makes it really easy to be able to extend and modernize. >> All right, well, June one of the other things, anytime we come to the Cloud event is we know that there's going to be updates in some of the primary offerings. So when it comes to compute and storage, know there's a number of announcements there, probably more than we'll be able to cover in this, but give us some of the highlights. >> Yeah, let me give some highlights I mean, at the core of this is a really Google Compute Engine, and we're very excited we've introduced a number of new, what we call VM families, right? Essentially different UBM instances, that's catered towards different use cases and different kinds of workloads. So for example, we launched the N2D VM, so this is a set of VMs on EMD technology and really kind of provide excellent price performance benefit for customers and who can choose to go down that particular path. We're also just really introduced our A2 VM family. This is based on GPU accelerator optimized to VM. So we're the first ones in the market to introduce NVIDIA Ampere A 100. So for lots of customers who were really introduced, we're interesting, you know, use GPU to do their ML and AI type of analysis. This is a big help because it's got a better performance compared to the previous generation so they can run their models faster and turn it around and turn insights. >> Wonderful. Shailesh, of course we want to hear about the networking components to, you know, Google, very well known you know, everybody leverages Google's network and global reach so how about the update from your network side? >> Absolutely. Stu, let me give you a set of updates that we have announced at next conference. So first of all as you know, many customers choose Google Cloud for the scale, the reach, the performance and the elasticity that we provide and ultimately results in better user experience or customer experience. And the backbone of all of this capability is our private global backbone network, right? Which all of our cloud customers benefit from. The networking is extremely important to advance our customers digital journeys, the ones that June talked about, migration and modernization, as well as security, right? So to that end, we made several announcements. Let's talk about some of them. First we announced a new subsea cable called the Grace Hopper which will actually run between the U.S. on one side and UK on the other and Spain on another leg. And it's equipped with about 16 fiber pairs that will get completed in 2022. And it will allow for significant new capacity between the U.S. and Europe, right? Second Google Cloud CDN, it's one of our most popular and fast-growing service offerings. It now offers the capability to serve content from on prem, as well as other clouds especially for hybrid and multicloud deployments. This provides a tremendous amount of flexibility in where the content can be placed and overall content and application delivery. Third we have announced the expansion of our partnership with Cisco and it's we have announced this notion of Cisco SD-WAN Cloud Hub with Google Cloud. It's one of the first in the industry to actually create an automated end to end solution that intelligently and securely, you know, connects or bridges enterprise networks to any workload across multiple clouds and to other locations. Four, we announced a new capabilities in the network intelligence center. It's a platform that provides customers with unmatched visibility into their networks, along with proactive kind of network verification, security recommendations, and so on. There were two specific modules there, around firewall insights and performance dashboard that we announced in addition to the three that already existed. And finally, we have a range of really powerful announcements in the security front, as you know, security is one of our top priorities and our infrastructure and products are designed, built and operated with an end to end security framework and end to end security as a core design principle. Let me give you a few highlights. First, as part of making it easy for firewall management for our customers to manage firewall across multiple organizations, we announced hierarchical firewall. Second, in order to enable, you know, better security capability, we announced the notion of packet metering, right? So which is something that we announced earlier in the year, but it's now GA and allows customers to collect and inspect network traffic across multiple machine types without any overhead, right? Third is, in actually in our compute and security teams, we announced the capability to what we call as confidential VMs, which offer the ability to encrypt data while being processed. We have always had the capability to encrypt data at rest and while in motion, now we are the first in the industry to announce the ability to encrypt data even while it is being processed. So we are really, you know, pleased to offer that as part of our confidential computing portfolio. We also announced the ability to do a managed service around our cloud armor security portfolio for DDoS web application and bot detection, that's called Cloud Armor Managed Protection. And finally we also announced the capability called Private Service Connect that allows customers to connect effortlessly to other Google Cloud services or to third party SaaS applications while keeping their traffic secure and private over the, in kind of the broader internet. So we were really pleased to announce in number of, you know, very critical kind of announcements, products and capabilities and partnerships such as Cisco in order to further the modernization and migration for our customers. >> Yeah, one note I will make for our audience, you know, check the details on the website. I know some of the security features are now in data, many of the other things it's now general availability. Shailesh, follow up question I have for you is when I look in 2020, the internet patterns of traffic have changed drastically. You saw a very rapid shift, everyone had needed to work from home, there's been a lot of stresses and strains on the network, when I hear things like your CDN or your SD-WAN partnership with Cisco, I have to think that there's, you know, an impact on that. What are you seeing? What are you hearing from your customers? How are you helping them work through these rapid changes to be able to respond and still give people the, you know, the performance and reliability of traffic where they need it, when they need? >> Right, absolutely. This is a, you know, very important question and a very important topic, right? And when we saw the impact of COVID, you know, as you know Google's mission is to be, continue to be helpful to our customers, we actually invested and continue to invest in building out our CDN capability, our interconnect, the capacity in our network infrastructure, and so on, in order to provide better, for example distance learning, video conferencing, e-commerce, financial services and so on and we are proud to say that we were able to support a very significant expansion in the overall traffic, you know, on a global basis, right? In Google Clouds and Google's network without a hitch. So we are really proud to be able to say that. In addition there are other areas where we have been looking to help our customers. For example, high performance computing is a very interesting capability that many customers are using for things such as COVID research, right? So a good example is Northeastern University in Boston that has been using, you know, a sort of thousands of kind of preemptable virtual machines on Google Cloud to power very large scale and a data driven model and simulations to figure out how the travel restrictions and social distancing will actually impact the spread of the virus. That's an example of the way that we are trying to be helpful as part of the the broader global situation. >> Great. June, I have to imagine generally from infrastructure there've been a number of other impacts that Google Cloud has been helping your customers, any other examples that you'd like to share? >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you look at the COVID impact, it impact different industries quite differently. We've seen certain industries that just really, their demand skyrocketed overnight. For example you know, I take one of our internal customer, Google, you know, Google Meet, which is Google's video conferencing service, we just announced that we saw a 30X increase over the last few months since COVID has started. And this is all running on Google infrastructure. And we've seen similar kind of a pattern for a number of our customers on the media entertainment area, and certainly video conferencing and so forth. And we've been able to scale to beat these key customer's demand and to make sure that they have the agility they need to meet the demand from their customers and so we're definitely very proud to be part of the, you know, part of this effort to kind of enable folks to be able to work from home, to be able to study from home and so on and so forth. You know, for some customers, you know, the whole business continuity is really a big deal for them, you know, where's the whole work from home a mandate. So for example, one of our customers Telus International, it's a Canadian telecommunication company, because of COVID they had to, you know, be able to transition tens and thousands of employees to work on the whole model immediately. And they were able to work with Google Cloud and our partner, itopia, who is specializing in virtual desktop and application. So overnight, literally in 24 hours, we're able to deploy a fully configured virtual desktop environments from Google Cloud and allow their employees to come back to service. So that's just one example, there's hundreds and thousands more of those examples, and it's been very heartening to be part of this, you know, Google to be helpful to our customer. >> Great. Well, I want to let both of you just have the final word when you're talking to customers here in 2020, how should they be thinking of Google Cloud? How do you make sure that you're helping them in differentiating from some of the other solutions and the environment? May be June if we could start with you. >> Sure, so at Google Cloud, our goal is to make it easy for anyone you know, whether you're big big enterprises or small startups, to be able to build your applications, to be able to innovate and harness the power of data to extract additional information, insights, and to be able to scale your business. As an infrastructure provider, we want to deliver the best infrastructure to run all customers application and on a global basis, reliably and securely. Definitely getting more and more complicated and you know, as we kind of spread our capacity to different locations, it gets more complicated from a logistics and a perspective as well so we want to help to do the heavy lifting around the infrastructure, so that from a customer, they can simply consume our infrastructure as a service and be able to focus on their businesses and not worry about the infrastructure side. So, you know, that's our goal, we'll do the plumbing work and we'll allow customers innovate on top of that. >> Right. You know, June you said that very well, right? Distributed infrastructure is a key part of our strategy to help our customers. In addition, we also provide the platform capability. So essentially a digital transformation platform that manages data at scale to help, you know, develop and modernize the applications, right? And finally we layer on top of that, a suite of industry specific solutions that deliver kind of these digital capabilities across each of the key verticals, such as financial services or telecommunications or media and entertainment, retail, healthcare, et cetera. So that's how combining together infrastructure platform and solutions we are able to help customers in their modernization journeys. >> All right, June and Shailesh, thank you so much for sharing the updates, congratulations to your teams on the progress, and absolutely look forward to hearing more in the future. >> Great, thank you Stu. >> Thank you Stu. >> All right, and stay tuned for more coverage of Google Cloud Next On Air '20. I'm Stu Miniman, thank you for watching theCUBE. (Upbeat music)

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, I'm stew minimum like co host for this segment is Justin War, and this is the 10th year of the Cube here at VM World 2019 when the lobby of Mosconi North and happened. Welcome to the program first, a first time guest on the program. June Yang, who is the vice president of product management and engineering at VM. Where. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> And welcoming back to the program is Marin Cabra, who's the vice president. Product marketing of Cloud at Delhi emcee for in Great to See You, thanks to All right, June so many different pieces talking about Cloud Way. Think back 10 years ago, you know, Pomerance was talking about it like it's the software mainframe. What we're talking because, you know, even back then, you know, Cloud isn't really it's not a destination or a place. You know, there is no cloud is just somebody else's computer. It's more of an operating model, so of course, the VM work cloud on various solutions. Of course. Sitting here with Del, I'm sure we'll be talking about the V. MacLeod, a deli emcee. But just give us over a little bit about you know, you're in a lot of customer meetings. You know what's resonating with your customers. What are they coming to you tow? Discuss when it comes to their overall cloud strategy? >> Yeah, I think for a lot of customers, they're really looking for both the hybrid cloud story as well as a multi call story. I mean, this is something that Pat spend quite a bit of time talking to you on the Mondays keynote. We see customers clearly. Many of them have very large existing footprints on premises and edges again as a growing segment off their infrastructure. It's also getting very significant, making very significant investment over there. And of course, the public cloud itself. So we see many customer really trying to straddle the combination off the private cloud, the public cloud and the edge side, and our strategy is really we want to have a consistent infrastructure that's running everywhere, so therefore we have a consistent operational model that enables the customer and their advance to be to do that. >> Yeah, In some ways, it reminds me back. You know, in the early days when I worked with VM where every group had some application they'd built and you know which server they bought, you know, you know, they would run VM. We're underneath that because it would help with the efficiency in there. So in some ways, is multi cloud similar to what we had in multi vendor back in the day, >> I mean, we think of, you know, you think about the first it oration. Of'em were right. We're really thinking about We're taking the hype, the hyper visor, and making all the hardware underneath that to be really invisible right you're using, You're dealing with a high. You're doing the hyper visor and really hide it a head virginity off. What's underneath that? And then we talk about our STD Sierra, which is really focusing software defined data center were virtualized not only compute, but also storage and network as well and really hide in the head Virginity for that. And so the third iteration flies really looking at the cloud as the next level off you know, different instructor comes from money again. We want to go to hide that and offer consistent operational model there. >> So from the customer perspective, back in the day when Vienna, where was new It was new and scary for a lot of customers. And we had we saw that with cloud as well. So 10 years ago, Cloud was evil and wrong, and we should never use it. Customers have moved on in both of those cases Have we have We reached the point now where cloud is just Yes, it's accepted and we're going to be doing it. Are we? Are we going to have another battle about whether hybrid or multi cloud or customers just moved past that and are now looking at? We know what we want to use this for, so we know that we need to choose it. We're not gonna be moving everything to the cloud, but we're not gonna be putting everything in V EMS either. We're going to choose what is the right solution for the for the different views. Guys, >> I think over the last court, a couple of years that has become sort of the defective standard people comfortable with the cloud people comfortable with on premises. They know that it's gonna be hybrid cloud world. It's gonna be a multi cloud world. >> So Varun, we talked about the VM War cloud on Delhi M C. We had a number of conversations back. Adelle Technologies World. You know, earlier this year when you look out in the general market place, they're like, Oh, I look at the family. Well, Della's the hardware Veum. Where's the software? There are a lot of announcements this week that we're the cross pollination of pieces, and a lot of those are software pieces from the Dell family that tie into what's happening on VCF and the like. So bring us the update. >> Mr Was, as June said, both Daddy M. C and V M were incredibly customer driven companies, right? So what we've been hearing from customers is one. They're really excited about being able to try out the Ember cloud and a GMC, so we're very, very happy to be working with the hammer to bring this to market first. So that's something that that our customers have been asking us for. But then, along with that, as customers start understanding the model of the fully manage data. So you know the fully manage infrastructure you can. The next question that customers have is okay. I can now focus on higher value added service is And one of the things that immediately comes up next is okay. What about my data out? We're protected, right? I'm gonna be running applications on this. And we've already spoken on this show many times before. Data is increasingly one off our organization's most valuable assets. It's a competitive differentiator. Bc news, Every day, if it falls in the wrong hands, what happens? Right? So what we've been doing now, in addition to the three amazing amount of work that we've been doing the June's team to bring this to market, they've also been working on the data protection side. So now the deli emcee data protection is now validated to be working on Williams of you, MacLeod and DMC as the data protection solution. So this means that customers can not only take advantage of the the integration that we have on the infrastructure earlier. You can also take advantage of just have the peace of mind that our industry leading data protection solutions Will will be there to help them manage the data and protect their data. >> So it sounds like it's something that you don't have to think about it as an afterthought, which is often the challenge with data protection. If you if you wait to think about it, it never happens. So this pretty much just comes. We know it's gonna work. Turn it on Day one. Just have it. Start with your data being protected and just have that baked into the way that you run your operations so that it no longer becomes spinning up a specific backup project. Because those things that they always expensive, there's no there's no perceived value to the business of doing this, whereas if it's just now part off, this is how you run your infrastructure. So this is how you stand up via MacLeod on Delhi emcee, and this is just how you should do business. >> You know, it's absolutely like that way. What would we find? That's really exciting. What the Hammer Claw Run DMC is. Customers are asking us to deliver the cloud model right to their data centers do their edge locations, so that's how they want to consume software solutions as well. So what's amazing about the solution is you're you're doing everything to the browser. So that's how you're gonna cause you Data protection becomes an ad on service that you want to add on that. And I'm sure over time we're gonna enter the capabilities as well. But it's really that's the key part here. The ease of consumption it Sorry, The ease of use and basically being able to consume things through the browser is a game changer for for infrastructure, on data in the data center on the edge. >> So June 1 of the things that definitely has caught our attention and one of the bigger announcements this week is Tom Zoo in the con to Mission Control. That's what they call it because from going to have multiple locations, we've been looking for my entire career in I t o. You know, we're gonna have some tool that's going to manage across these environments and made a VM wear cloud, you know, on Delhi emcee. But I probably of'em were cloud on some of the public clouds, and I you might also be doing some kubernetes. That's not even with the V a more pieces, so help paint a picture is kind of where we are today and where we're going when it comes to you know that management consumption and maybe even some of the finances in getting to that cloud operating model across all my environments. >> Yeah, tonsil Vincenzo is a kind of follow. Your name for a number of products was in that tons of mission control, of course, is one part of that. The way we view Content Zoo is that this is really a multi called platform. We understand that customers of developers in particular, wanted to use consume, consume carbon eighties cluster and the often they want to choose communities. Cluster based on different cloud for variety reasons, sometimes cause something's resiliency, sometimes just geographical availability. And then there needs the way to be able to see this in the consolidated fashion. And that's what tons of mission control does. And that's when I showcase yesterday the keynote to really show that you can now have a single pane glass to be able to see all of these clusters across multiple clouds and and then be able to, you know, do some troubleshooting and so forth making things much easier that, of course, buildup Holly policies on top of these clusters and then welcome propagated changes and making sure those in force. So those are some really, really, I think, really good operational capabilities that really simplifies the data. The operational cut, you know, kind of the task that operator has to do its part of the >> driver for this, that that enterprises who got this investment in v sphere. So they've spent 10 years of 10 more years investing in envy sphere. And then all of a sudden, you've got these cloud people who want to come and do things in a completely different way. So now, as a business, I either I have to make a choice of what do I invest a lot of money in both of these things? Do I move everything to one model? It sounds like you're actually trying to provide customers with away. That's a look. You've already made these investments and you don't have to throw them all away. You can still operate things here, but you can also have these cloud things without having to move everything off into a completely different operating model. Is that fairly >> accurate. So I think we're very customer driven by We want to deliver what customer wants to. It wants to be able to consume S o. You know, That's why you know, part of the reason we're so excited about a Project Pacific on top of the V sphere side is really customer has made a huge investment on the visa for platform. And we've got 500,000 customers out there and tons of customers does. He becomes their standard in the data center and that you now have a kubernetes coming in and containers coming in and we don't want a customer. Have to do a siloed platform for it. And by embedding communities directly into V's for yourself, we have now made V's fear The platform for containers and for VMC Sport was well, so that investment customer has made on the on the VCR side. Now kind of moves out to people to cover the communities and containers as well. And because our std see and our hybrid cloud story we're taking the same V sphere across to be a mark on the deli Emcee the Mark child on aws mbm were cloud, you know on edge and so forth. That means all this benefits that fracture. Pacific greens is now going everywhere. >> Having spoken to some clients about the experience of even managed community service is it's really, really painful for them. So being about having these of use of these fear, if you could bring that to group in a visa and have that is a manage service, I'm sure you'll make a lot of people very happy. >> That's that's why we're so excited about it. >> Do you want to click one level further on the product Pacific stuff? Because the thing that struck me at first it's like, Wait, you know, containers and communities That's gonna be the cloud and being, you know, feast fear. We want to modernize it. But you know, that's not what I want to put in the public cloud. But Product Pacific. Is this primarily a data center offering? If I'm doing via more cloud in a public cloud to expect to be leveraging the native public cloud and then tan to helps me manage across them? Is that how we think of them? Or am I not getting the full story? >> So I think a little bit about you think about. There's 111 track is you can do is all these fear based clouds, right? These fear based on premise the sphere based on dahlia MSI ve sphere based on top of you know, public cloud right, That's one track if you follow that track than Project Pacific essentially allows you to be able to run both kubernetes and virtual machines on a single platform. Now, if customers also wanted to be able to run a native cloud, then this is what kind of bring tons of mission control in, because that's a multi called story. So that was kind of what paddle trying explain at the keynote in terms of hybrid cloud versus the versus the multi cloud. >> Okay, so you don't actually have to make a choice of one way of saying things, the tyranny of the single glass of pain. I have to make choices and you can't have a lot of things. And if there's one thing enterprises, height is that that's dedicating themselves to just one way of doing things, they like to have choice. >> We want to give them choices. Well, >> s O. B. Having that ability to be able to make those choices and have it be an end decision instead of war. I think that's >> so one of the questions we've gotten from customers this week is you know, your partners he had VM wear have just made a lot of acquisitions. It's a lot of integration work that needs to get it done. Their bills got strong experience in these things. That sit on top of the stack gives a little bit of what we should see going forward on your planet. >> I mean, I think if there's anything that's that's apparent this week, is that being there and L Technologies are just getting started. I mean, even as a having having known a little bit about some of these announcements, it was just so exciting to see all that stuff come Rio. And we're very, very excited to continue to work with the, um, where to bring. You know, Tan Xue. The various components attends a more Cooper container stuff as well, as well as other other capabilities that we saw in you realize orchestrator and automation. We want to bring that to our customers in an integrated fashion so that it's easy for them to deploy just easy for them to use. And so I think what you're seeing here is just the start. >> That sounds fantastic. Yeah. So all of this investment that women there were saying from from the M wear and from Delhi and see like our customers going to see the payoff immediately, like tomorrow. Or we're going to have to wait. Another wait for some of these investments and integration is to pay off. How long are we going away? >> You think a lot of this is coming to fruition already? We announced availability. Of'em were called on Dahlia emcee at B M World. So it's ready for customer to purchase today, right? If a customer wanted Thio, you know much like what I demolition at the keynote. If a customer has a data center, they want to stood up wherever they need to be taken, literally place, order and be able to get that right. So that's the benefit they can have immediately. And of course, a lot of the longer term things have been talking about by layering additional capabilities. When Project Pacific comes into for a shin, this becomes available, you know, across the veer mark Wild and tell'em see products as well. I mean, these things will all kind of continuous snowballing as we go forward. But there's immediate benefit today and they'll be ongoing benefit as we go forward, making additional investment. >> Excellent. I don't have to wait forever. >> Yes, yes, it's about instant gratification. That's the trick. Now >> what? Wonder if you could speak to kind of changing application portfolio. His customers are modernizing, Going cloud native on that, what's the impact on your platforms and what are you seeing and hearing from customers? >> You know, uh, there is obviously a lot of interest in containers, and customers are either already trying it out or having some sort of applications that her back is there or they have or they're looking at it and saying, This seems really interesting. In some ways, it seems very, very similar to what What I saw from customers five years ago when people were saying, I'm gonna move everything to the public club and, you know, sometimes you hear a little bit of I'm gonna move everything to containers. I think what we will likely see over the next few years is a little bit of rationalization, just like we saw with public and private, is that it's both. I think we will continue to see sort of traditional applications and new applications live in more off of'em centric model. And I think there will be as their new applications being built or as I squeeze package of their applications to be more container friendly. We'll see some go that way. I you know, if anything, I've learned it is One thing I've learned in the I T industry in all these years is there really isn't a one size fits all solution. We get very excited about things, >> and we're like, Oh, >> everybody's going to do this But the reality is, things balanced themselves out and into June's point as a vendor. What we want to do is we want to give our customers choice. But we know that there's no one size fits all, and we want them to choose what's right for their business and help them achieved their goals. >> So, June last question I have for you. Congratulations on the keynote yesterday way Heard way. No, a lot of the inside work and, you know, heard like the guy that swim across the English Channel like that got added to the agenda, you know, like days beforehand flew way. Understand? What happened with demos and last minute gives a little bit is to kind of the making of the team that helped put that together. You know anything that you know, you were super excited. That actually made the final stage that you might not have thought would've gotten there, >> you know, we started out was we were very ambitious, right? And we put in 15 or 16 demos into it. And as we started putting things together, time was our biggest enemy, you know? You know our friend Joe, who is, you know, running the day to show he was telling me you are 30 seconds over on this particular done, though you are 45 seconds on the other day. You give yourself credit here. I'm trying to tell the story here. So, unfortunately, we actually had to cut some demos out just because he couldn't fit into the scope of time. We want to make sure the story really comes out and the customer really understood what we're trying to show. I mean, I'm just so excited as part of the, you know, me doing the key day to keynote. I actually learned about a bunch of products I wasn't that familiar with. And so I was like, Wow, I didn't even know were doing that. And so just to see the amount of capabilities that we're bringing to bear, it's pretty astonishing and it's it's exciting. >> June, I'll say It reminds me of other cloud shows where there's so much going on so much new products getting launched that no single person can keep up with that. But thank you, June and Vern for helping our audience learn a little bit more about the areas that you're doing with >> my pleasure. >> Thank you for having us. >> Justin Warren. I'm still Minuteman back with more coverage at VM World 2019. Thank you for watching the Cube

>> Live from New York, It's the CUBE! Covering theCUBE, New York City 2018. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its Ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the live CUBE coverage here in New York City for CUBE NYC, #CubeNYC. This coverage of all things data, all things cloud, all things machine learning here in the big data realm. I'm John Furrier and Dave Vellante. We've got two great guests from Cisco. We got DD who is the Vice President of Data Center Marketing at Cisco, and Han Yang who is the Senior Product Manager at Cisco. Guys, welcome to the Cube. Thanks for coming on again. >> Good to see ya. >> Thanks for having us. >> So obviously one of the things that has come up this year at the Big Data Show, used to be called Hadoop World, Strata Data, now it's called, the latest name. And obviously CUBE NYC, we changed from Big Data NYC to CUBE NYC, because there's a lot more going on. I heard hallway conversations around blockchain, cryptocurrency, Kubernetes has been said on theCUBE already at least a dozen times here today, multicloud. So you're seeing the analytical world try to be, in a way, brought into the dynamics around IT infrastructure operations, both cloud and on premises. So interesting dynamics this year, almost a dev ops kind of culture to analytics. This is a new kind of sign from this community. Your thoughts? >> Absolutely, I think data and analytics is one of those things that's pervasive. Every industry, it doesn't matter. Even at Cisco, I know we're going to talk a little more about the new AI and ML workload, but for the last few years, we've been using AI and ML techniques to improve networking, to improve security, to improve collaboration. So it's everywhere. >> You mean internally, in your own IT? >> Internally, yeah. Not just in IT, in the way we're designing our network equipment. We're storing data that's flowing through the data center, flowing in and out of clouds, and using that data to make better predictions for better networking application performance, security, what have you. >> The first topic I want to talk to you guys about is around the data center. Obviously, you do data center marketing, that's where all the action is. The cloud, obviously, has been all the buzz, people going to the cloud, but Andy Jassy's announcement at VMworld really is a validation that we're seeing, for the first time, hybrid multicloud validated. Amazon announced RDS on VMware on-premises. >> That's right. This is the first time Amazon's ever done anything of this magnitude on-premises. So this is a signal from the customers voting with their wallet that on-premises is a dynamic. The data center is where the data is, that's where the main footprint of IT is. This is important. What's the impact of that dynamic, of data center, where the data is with the option of a cloud. How does that impact data, machine learning, and the things that you guys see as relevant? >> I'll start and Han, feel free to chime in here. So I think those boundaries between this is a data center, and this a cloud, and this is campus, and this is the edge, I think those boundaries are going away. Like you said, data center is where the data is. And it's the ability of our customers to be able to capture that data, process it, curate it, and use it for insight to take decision locally. A drone is a data center that flies, and boat is a data center that floats, right? >> And a cloud is a data center that no one sees. >> That's right. So those boundaries are going away. We at Cisco see this as a continuum. It's the edge cloud continuum. The edge is exploding, right? There's just more and more devices, and those devices are cranking out more data than ever before. Like I said, it's the ability of our customers to harness the data to make more meaningful decisions. So Cisco's take on this is the new architectural approach. It starts with the network, because the network is the one piece that connects everything- every device, every edge, every individual, every cloud. There's a lot of data within the network which we're using to make better decisions. >> I've been pretty close with Cisco over the years, since '95 timeframe. I've had hundreds of meetings, some technical, some kind of business. But I've heard that term edge the network many times over the years. This is not a new concept at Cisco. Edge of the network actually means something in Cisco parlance. The edge of the network >> Yeah. >> that the packets are moving around. So again, this is not a new idea at Cisco. It's just materialized itself in a new way. >> It's not, but what's happening is the edge is just now generating so much data, and if you can use that data, convert it into insight and make decisions, that's the exciting thing. And that's why this whole thing about machine learning and artificial intelligence, it's the data that's being generated by these cameras, these sensors. So that's what is really, really interesting. >> Go ahead, please. >> One of our own studies pointed out that by 2021, there will be 847 zettabytes of information out there, but only 1.3 zettabytes will actually ever make it back to the data center. That just means an opportunity for analytics at the edge to make sense of that information before it ever makes it home. >> What were those numbers again? >> I think it was like 847 zettabytes of information. >> And how much makes it back? >> About 1.3. >> Yeah, there you go. So- >> So a huge compression- >> That confirms your research, Dave. >> We've been saying for a while now that most of the data is going to stay at the edge. There's no reason to move it back. The economics don't support it, the latency doesn't make sense. >> The network cost alone is going to kill you. >> That's right. >> I think you really want to collect it, you want to clean it, and you want to correlate it before ever sending it back. Otherwise, sending that information, of useless information, that status is wonderful. Well that's not very valuable. And 99.9 percent, "things are going well." >> Temperature hasn't changed. (laughs) >> If it really goes wrong, that's when you want to alert or send more information. How did it go bad? Why did it go bad? Those are the more insightful things that you want to send back. >> This is not just for IoT. I mean, cat pictures moving between campuses cost money too, so why not just keep them local, right? But the basic concepts of networking. This is what I want to get in my point, too. You guys have some new announcements around UCS and some of the hardware and the gear and the software. What are some of the new announcements that you're announcing here in New York, and what does it mean for customers? Because they want to know not only speeds and feeds. It's a software-driven world. How does the software relate? How does the gear work? What's the management look like? Where's the control plane? Where's the management plane? Give us all the data. >> I think the biggest issues starts from this. Data scientists, their task is to export different data sources, find out the value. But at the same time, IT is somewhat lagging behind. Because as the data scientists go from data source A to data source B, it could be 3 petabytes of difference. IT is like, 3 petabytes? That's only from Monday through Wednesday? That's a huge infrastructure requirement change. So Cisco's way to help the customer is to make sure that we're able to come out with blueprints. Blueprints enabling the IT team to scale, so that the data scientists can work beyond their own laptop. As they work through the petabytes of data that's come in from all these different sources, they're able to collaborate well together and make sense of that information. Only by scaling with IT helping the data scientists to work the scale, that's the only way they can succeed. So that's why we announced a new server. It's called a C480ML. Happens to have 8 GPUs from Nvidia inside helping customers that want to do that deep learning kind of capabilities. >> What are some of the use cases on these as products? It's got some new data capabilities. What are some of the impacts? >> Some of the things that Han just mentioned. For me, I think the biggest differentiation in our solution is things that we put around the box. So the management layer, right? I mean, this is not going to be one server and one data center. It's going to be multiple of them. You're never going to have one data center. You're going to have multiple data centers. And we've got a really cool management tool called Intersight, and this is supported in Intersight, day one. And Intersight also uses machine learning techniques to look at data from multiple data centers. And that's really where the innovation is. Honestly, I think every vendor is bend sheet metal around the latest chipset, and we've done the same. But the real differentiation is how we manage it, how we use the data for more meaningful insight. I think that's where some of our magic is. >> Can you add some code to that, in terms of infrastructure for AI and ML, how is it different than traditional infrastructures? So is the management different? The sheet metal is not different, you're saying. But what are some of those nuances that we should understand. >> I think especially for deep learning, multiple scientists around the world have pointed that if you're able to use GPUs, they're able to run the deep learning frameworks faster by roughly two waters magnitude. So that's part of the reason why, from an infrastructure perspective, we want to bring in that GPUs. But for the IT teams, we didn't want them to just add yet another infrastructure silo just to support AI or ML. Therefore, we wanted to make sure it fits in with a UCS-managed unified architecture, enabling the IT team to scale but without adding more infrastructures and silos just for that new workload. But having that unified architecture, it helps the IT to be more efficient and, at the same time, is better support of the data scientists. >> The other thing I would add is, again, the things around the box. Look, this industry is still pretty nascent. There is lots of start-ups, there is lots of different solutions, and when we build a server like this, we don't just build a server and toss it over the fence to the customer and say "figure it out." No, we've done validated design guides. With Google, with some of the leading vendors in the space to make sure that everything works as we say it would. And so it's all of those integrations, those partnerships, all the way through our systems integrators, to really understand a customer's AI and ML environment and can fine tune it for the environment. >> So is that really where a lot of the innovation comes from? Doing that hard work to say, "yes, it's going to be a solution that's going to work in this environment. Here's what you have to do to ensure best practice," etc.? Is that right? >> So I think some of our blueprints or validated designs is basically enabling the IT team to scale. Scale their stores, scale their CPU, scale their GPU, and scale their network. But do it in a way so that we work with partners like Hortonworks or Cloudera. So that they're able to take advantage of the data lake. And adding in the GPU so they're able to do the deep learning with Tensorflow, with Pytorch, or whatever curated deep learning framework the data scientists need to be able to get value out of those multiple data sources. These are the kind of solutions that we're putting together, making sure our customers are able to get to that business outcome sooner and faster, not just a-- >> Right, so there's innovation at all altitudes. There's the hardware, there's the integrations, there's the management. So it's innovation. >> So not to go too much into the weeds, but I'm curious. As you introduce these alternate processing units, what is the relationship between traditional CPUs and these GPUs? Are you managing them differently, kind of communicating somehow, or are they sort of fenced off architecturally. I wonder if you could describe that. >> We actually want it to be integrated, because by having it separated and fenced off, well that's an IT infrastructure silo. You're not going to have the same security policy or the storage mechanisms. We want it to be unified so it's easier on IT teams to support the data scientists. So therefore, the latest software is able to manage both CPUs and GPUs, as well as having a new file system. Those are the solutions that we're putting forth, so that ARC-IT folks can scale, our data scientists can succeed. >> So IT's managing a logical block. >> That's right. And even for things like inventory management, or going back and adding patches in the event of some security event, it's so much better to have one integrated system rather than silos of management, which we see in the industry. >> So the hard news is basically UCS for AI and ML workloads? >> That's right. This is our first server custom built ground up to support these deep learning, machine learning workloads. We partnered with Nvidia, with Google. We announced earlier this week, and the phone is ringing constantly. >> I don't want to say godbot. I just said it. (laughs) This is basically the power tool for deep learning. >> Absolutely. >> That's how you guys see it. Well, great. Thanks for coming out. Appreciate it, good to see you guys at Cisco. Again, deep learning dedicated technology around the box, not just the box itself. Ecosystem, Nvidia, good call. Those guys really get the hot GPUs out there. Saw those guys last night, great success they're having. They're a key partner with you guys. >> Absolutely. >> Who else is partnering, real quick before we end the segment? >> We've been partnering with software sci, we partner with folks like Anaconda, with their Anaconda Enterprise, which data scientists love to use as their Python data science framework. We're working with Google, with their Kubeflow, which is open source project integrating Tensorflow on top of Kubernetes. And of course we've been working with folks like Caldera as well as Hortonworks to access the data lake from a big data perspective. >> Yeah, I know you guys didn't get a lot of credit. Google Cloud, we were certainly amplifying it. You guys were co-developing the Google Cloud servers with Google. I know they were announcing it, and you guys had Chuck on stage there with Diane Greene, so it was pretty positive. Good integration with Google can make a >> Absolutely. >> Thanks for coming on theCUBE, thanks, we appreciate the commentary. Cisco here on theCUBE. We're in New York City for theCUBE NYC. This is where the world of data is converging in with IT infrastructure, developers, operators, all running analytics for future business. We'll be back with more coverage, after this short break. (upbeat digital music)

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCube! Covering Grace Hopper's celebration of women in computing, brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. (upbeat techno music) >> Welcome back to theCube's coverage of the Grace Hopper conference, here in Orlando. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Jeff Rick. We're joined by Erin Yang. She is the VP of Technology Product Management for Workday. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Of course, thank you for having me. >> So tell us a little bit about what you do at Workday and what are the most exciting projects you're working on right now? >> All right, so I lead up our Technology Product Management team at Workday, and so for those of you who might not have heard of Workday, we are a leading cloud provider for financial management, human capital management, analytical applications. Been around since 2005, I've been there for the last six years and I would say the technology is such an exciting part of the company and one of the things that really drew me there so a lot of people don't the original story around workday but when we started we had this amazing mix of really experienced leaders who had been in the enterprise space before, who had built a lot of these products before. Combined with cloud technologies, just taking off and no one had really done the HCM and the cloud before financials in the cloud and so they were able to completely start over, we like to say with a clean sheet of paper, with new technologies but having experience in the industry and build from there. So we have a single technology platform that powers all of our different applications and that's the part of the company that I sit on. >> So you're really in the core technology that's driving the application. Desired technology NOD, ATM or one of the other sets. >> So the things that my team really looks after are security, integration, our infrastructure, the common data model and the common work flow that goes across the different applications. And the fact that we can have a single platform that connects all the applications, makes it so much easier for our customers and that's really been the philosophy of the company, which is customers first. We really focus on making our customers happy and so one of our company goals is always hitting 95% customer satisfaction, which is really unheard of in the enterprise industry when most people are not super happy with those products. And we've been able to hit 97% in the last year that we did the surveys. >> It's an interesting part of the SAS model because unlike a traditional enterprise software sale, they make the sale, they collect the 15%. But you're getting paid monthly I assume and maybe it's an annual contract. So you have to keep delivering value each and every single month cause you don't have this long term, big giant, enterprise license. >> It's a subscription revenue model. It's no more of a you deliver a product, then you don't think about it anymore. It's a continuous partnership with our customers. And I think that's why the relationship matters so much with our customers, they're stuck with us to a certain extent and we want to make sure that they're happy, that they're getting the value that they wanted out of the product and then we can also grow with them. And so one of the interesting parts of our technology is that we actually abstract the application and business logic from the technology itself through a meta data language that we've built out internally. And so we've been able to swap out our persistence technology, change the way that we store data, scale our transactions without our customers even knowing it. So that's kind of one of the beautiful parts of the way that our architecture was designed. >> So it's the architecture but then what else are you doing to hit that 97%. The key is empathizing with your customer. >> We spend a lot of time with our customers, that's one of the big points, almost every single product, every single feature that we build has a design partner program where we literally are with our customers, understanding what their pain points are and figuring out how can we solve those pain points in the product. And on the fact that we're pure SAS, so we just have one version that every customer has. So if we're improving the product for one customer, we're improving it for all of our customers. And so we're able to just focus on that single version instead of splitting our attention across old versions and maintaining old systems. >> So shifting gears a little bit to Grace Hopper specifically. You talked about, before we turned on the cameras that Workday made a big investment in Grace Hopper this year and you brought a huge contingent of people. I think its interesting and I think a lot of people know that there's a lot of hiring that goes on. I don't know that everyone knows as a development opportunity where companies bring large contingents. I wonder if you can speak to one. What is the value that you guys made this investment in this show around people that already work for Workday. >> So ultimately we're here because at Workday, we really believe in diversity, being good for our business, being good for our people. It helps us make better decisions, helps us build better products, we're more creative and it helps the bottom line. I think there's a lot of research out there now. And so at Grace Hopper we think this is the best way because it's such a big event to improve all aspects of the talent pipeline. So it's not just the hiring coming in from college, which we are definitely doing but it's also bringing, we have over 130 employees who came here from Workday and all walks in their careers. So some newer more junior people and some more experienced people. And we really think that the networking that they can do here, the sessions that they can come to to do professional development and learn. One of our sessions is how to get out of that middle management quagmire. How do they continue moving up and forward in their careers. It's not just that entry point into that junior entry level position. >> So what an investment. Outside of your own event, I would imagine that's probably the biggest presence you have at any tech event. >> I think it is, I haven't heard of us having more than 130 people at any other event. And it's a big investment especially because our big customer conference is next week. (laughs) We're all busy with that but this is a important enough event for us, both for college recruiting, both for professional developments and for, like I said, building that network even within the women who are here at Workday because we're a bigger company now and this is a good opportunity for us all to strengthen those relationships and we have eight employees who are speaking in sessions and that's a great experience as well. To get up on stage, to build your presence, learn how to speak and communicate and challenge yourself in that way. >> What would you say has been the biggest challenges in your career and your someone who grew up in the bay area, went to the same high school Steve Jobs, Stanford graduate, working in this industry for a while now. What would you say you've learned along the way in terms of overcoming challenges. >> I would say I've had a lot of opportunities growing up and I would say some of the biggest challenges though are the impressions that people might have of you that you need to overcome >> Okay interesting. >> And so for me it's like, first you start off as a female and so people think you might be leaning towards certain areas and so starting from when I was young I got a rush out of defying expectations that people had of me and maybe that's how I have ended up to where I am today. But I like to surprise people but some people don't like that and so I can see that being a challenge for some women if they're saying I really like math and technology and science and if it gets them odd looks or even just a lack of support, they might, start backing off and start thinking they may be better suited for something else. But for me I actually really liked the challenge, it made me more excited to overcome that and say hey, I can be a woman, I want to surprise more people, I want to get into Stanford and do electrical engineering cause that's not going to be the expected path that others have of me and I want to show that I can do it. And it's been really nice to see more and more female role models who have stories like that. Because then you start making it the norm so that if someone really is hesitant on whether they should or shouldn't be going down that path if they see other women who've been strong and achieved many things that they were able to do that. >> Before the cameras were rolling, you were also talking about your experience at Workday and mentorships and the sponsors that you've received. Can you tell our viewers a little bit more about your experience. >> I think that's been a big part of my journey at Workday. I started off as the product manager for our collaboration team. It was my first time doing product management only six years ago and my manager at that time, he really believed in me and combine that with the fact that we're at a fast growing company we were only 900 people at that point. I told you we're over 7000 now, lots of opportunities were coming up. He was able to say, there's this other opportunity around our extensibility area, which was totally unrelated to collaboration but he's like, you've down well with what I gave you over here, why don't you try this? And it was not something I would personally volunteer for cause I actually didn't think that I was capable of doing it. But he's like, no, I believe in you, I think you can do it, I've already advocated for you that you should take on this role. And so I stepped into it, did a good enough job for them to say, okay we're going to keep investing in her. And that manager continued to really put me forward for other opportunities and then when he switched roles he nominated me to be his successor for leading the whole team and so he's been a really major part of my career progression here at Workday and I think having someone who can be there to advocate for opportunities for you, and also teach you how to navigate and organization, who are the key decision makers, who do you need to influence, what are the relationships you need to build. All of that is such valuable knowledge to have that you may not know otherwise. A mentor might not even be able to do that for you but someone who's really sponsoring you can. >> Well Erin thanks so much for joining us here in the cube, its been great talking to you. >> Thank you so much. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff Rick, we will have more from Grace Hopper just after this. (upbeat techno music)

>>The Cube Presents Dell Technologies World Brought to You by Dell. >>Hey, everyone, welcome back to the Cubes Coverage of Dell Technologies World 2022. Live from the Venetian in Las Vegas. Lisa Martin With a Volonte. This is Day two of the Cubes coverage. We've had a lot of great focus on talking about multi cloud partner ecosystems, as et cetera, the last day and a half. Now we're going to have a conversation with Dell, and we've got two guests joining us. Please welcome David Linthicum, the chief cloud strategy officer at Deloitte, and Brad Lewis, the senior vice president and GM of the global transformation office at Dell Technologies. Guys, welcome to the Cube. >>Thank you for having us. You guys >>so lots to talk about multi cloud. You can't. It's one of the biggest themes here, David. I want to start with you. One of the things that Michael Dell said in his keynote, and he said it on the Cape today is its multi cloud world by default. What does that mean to you? >>What that means is that if you don't find multi cloud, multi cloud is going to find you. It's a complex distributed system that basically is invasive to what we do within the enterprise. So anybody who's leveraging cloud computing is going to find that there is a need to leverage multiple clouds of multiple kinds of technologies. And therefore we're kind of focused on what's in between the clouds versus the clouds themselves. And I think that's okay. We're leveraging multi cloud by choice. It's driving innovation. It's driving agility. That's why people are adopting it. So whether or not you have it or not within your enterprise chances are you do. Are you going to have it pretty soon, >>right? I think stand I saw yesterday was 75% of organisations have at least 3 to 4 different clouds. What is your take on when you're talking with customers in the field? How are they? How are they managing that approach? What are they doing right? What do they Maybe not doing right. >>I think what they're doing wrong mainly was hit. That one first is that they're managing their clouds within the silos. And so, in other words, are using whatever native tools are in the particular cloud provided to do operations do security, governance, things like that. And the reality is, it's a more holistic approach that needs to be taken. We need to span these solutions across the different cloud providers and also the existing legacy systems thinking holistically about that. It's just something we haven't done ever with an I t. And now we're having to do it. Read. >>What is the global transformation office? Adele, What's your What's your role in your mission? Sure. >>So our mission is working with our customers, who are really focused on driving outcome centric types of relationship with us, so worried less about the just in and of itself and really wanting to figure out how do I take advantage of all of those capabilities that Dell and its partner ecosystem have to drive business value? Ultimately, what does a great experience look like that or a developer for my lines of business? How do I start to improve the type of agility that I've got? How do I office stuff up some of the types of flexible platforms that I'm really reading about or aspiring to be able to offer? So being able to look at that holistic through through the lens of technology, the economics of that. The operational constructs and operating models around it and being able to really take all of those assets and capabilities and map them to the types of outcomes, milestones and timelines that are relevant to that. >>Who is your ideal partner at the customer? Is it uh, C I o the line of business? Somebody in infrastructure? >>It's all of the above, I think, as we get as we get through the conversation, what will become apparent is tech as part of the answer. So it's not. It's important. It has to be considered. It has to be architected. Well, it has to be operated well. But as important as taking an increasingly more so is how to David's point, how are you going to go and build that common model of operational construct around all of these different platforms so you don't end up with a silo based approach? Application owners and driving utilisation and adoption is important and more so than it's ever been. So having those line of business tie ins and the application owners all of those different stakeholders finance and being able to set expectations well and being able to deliver against those consistently and reliably and the impact that has on confidence and investment. All of those things become part of the fabric of a collective that's about mapping to those. So there's no one set of stakeholders that we work with. But what is really important as having somebody who sits across all of those things that has the ability to call the shots and make decisions when hard decisions are having to be made because where things don't typically work well is when we get into stalemates or standoffs, where there's different factional issues or politics comes into it or somebody is not empowered? Having that governance model so that there is a senior stakeholder who can move roadblocks and make sure that we remain aligned is one of the most critical factors. >>David question for you removing those roadblocks the last two years. Obviously, we've seen a lot of organisations massively pivot multiple times right to survive and not to thrive. But we've seen so much investment in the remote workforce and now a lot of businesses facing ageing infrastructure, what do we do? How do you help them remove those roadblocks? Obviously time is of the essence right. So from a competitive perspective, what more do some of those conversations look and sound like >>they're one? Get the obstacles out of the way. In other words, if you think this is about building more data centres to have more VPN, traffic and things like that, that's not what it's all about. This is about finding solutions that provide scalability within the organisation and it's going to maintain scalability. Keep in mind, we're running to work force. People are going to work independently. They're gonna exist on their own infrastructure. They're going to have their own data which is personalised to them. They're gonna basically interact with other employees and other co workers in different, more collaborative ways. Hopefully. So the idea being that we're trying to get everything back centralised again is crazy. We need to figure out ways in which we can diversify the workforce, diversify that kind of technology we're using and leverage things that are really kind of on demand and scalable quick thinking about building data centres. >>Okay, so square the circle for me because I totally agree with what you just said. But it seems like a lot of organisations when it comes to data are taking that approach like Okay, let's centralise all the data so we can make it more manageable and more efficient to manage. Yet we talk about edge. Data is distributed by its very nature. So help me understand that Yin and Yang. >>I think it's partially we get into, obviously, the governance and the data governance and sort of all of the regulator in compliance aspects of that part of it is also emerging technologies. It's the area that's probably the least mature. We spend a lot of time figuring around how to have operational toolsets around multi cloud. Then we figured about how to have applications traverse multi cloud. Now we're moving on to the real crux of the problem and especially as translate edge start to take hold. We're generating large volumes of data is being generated at the edge. It's being generated in the in the core, and that ability to look at things holistically is going to become increasingly important. It's an area of focus for obviously us at Dell Technologies. It's where we're investing heavily and from an R and D standpoint. It's where the marketplace is going to evolve. But it's still in an early stage of maturity and being able to look at that holistically, >>so not necessarily shove it all into a single data store but enable it to be distributed and managed and and governor who should own the data life cycle. Should it be somebody in the business? Should it be somebody in I t. Should it be a data >>group? >>It's >>now. There is a long How long have we got? Well, I mean, you must have these discussions. We absolutely do, but sort of being serious about it. I think the important point is the people who ultimately are the ones who are who are responsible for getting value from that data is where it should resign. So because of the people who have the greatest insight and understanding of how of how to really get value from it, because ultimately we want to pivot from having a data conversation to how do we generate information and actionable information? It's not a data problem in and of itself, it's it's This is a business intelligence. How do we get value from this and that the best place for the data to live is the people who are going to be able to make the most of that. So >>Deloitte's gonna be having these conversations all the time with your customers. But this is, uh, an organisational discussion, isn't it? >>It's also a functional discussion. You have to remember that there's two tiers there. There's the people who own the data tier but don't necessarily want to administer the data so they know what the data is, What it does, they control how it's changed. They control how it's monitored, and we have multiple people that are distributed all over the company that do that. And then there's the people that actually run the control plane, and we get to distribute a data we're having to get to a common control plane that goes across the various databases, which is able to make the changes to the metadata and changes to the technical geeky stuff we have to do to keep data running. And so it's okay to have that. It's okay to have non technical and technical users who still maintain ownership of the data, and they work together in kind of a devops situation to make sure that we're maintaining the data to the needs of the business, and we have the business owners in there to tell us what that is. And we have the data administrators and that would actually make the changes. >>So the technology is, uh, an implementation detail in that model. Um, that's not It's not the tail wagging the dog. It's subservient to the business. Essentially, >>they're working together. And the reality is that the people who have the technical know how and have the business now how are often city in two different organisations that can exist anymore. They need to be maintained. They need to remove the barriers. And I deal with this with my clients all the time. They can't sit in silos. They need to collaborate together to make sure that the systems and the data are going to reflect and to solve the needs of the business. The only way to do that is to have collaboration at that level. >>So Lisa referenced multi cloud by default. You know, Chuck Witton was talking about that on the Cube recently. Uh, so I have often said multi clouds, Really? Multi vendor. It's like, Oh, I woke up. I got all these clouds. Okay, So what are the right strategies for customers? Where are they starting? How are they thinking about it? >>The people who are making the best progress is looking at it holistically. Looking at what does what does God look like? What are the things that are important to us? One of the capabilities were wanting to offer up and going into going into things, worried less about the tech of it. But more about how are we going to do things like accelerate business agility? How are we going to start to empower our lines of business to have first mover advantage? How do we take advantage of all of these disparate capabilities that over time it's going to vary? Who has competitive advantage? You could have one provider comes up with something that's a really compelling use case for what you're looking to do. But so if you've got the ability to be able to consume as a consistent ecosystem, all of those different partners, it's very easy to tap into that quickly and effectively delivering it. If you're trying to build things so that you're only tied into different people in different ways with different operational constructs, that don't really talk very well together. It's going to become very difficult for you to really take the maximum advantage of multi Cloud. So the thing that I would stress is, what are you actually trying to accomplish out of that work from the top down? Think about what good looks like. What are the capabilities that are meaningful and impactful to the business. And then the easiest thing in the world is to figure out which technology choices you have that enable that. But it has to be done through that lens of what is business value look like? And how do we manage that? And maximise that versus making desperate sort of distinct technology choices >>with the focus on business scene, which is absolutely critical. David, What's the GTM like between Dell and Deloitte? How do you when you bring them in? It's >>a perfect relationship. You've got to remember the customers and our clients have to have two things. Number one. They have to have a trusted adviser, and someone can bring to bear risk. Financial financial analysis, the ability to deal with technology, data, security, governance, things like that which are hard problems to solve. But do so in an objective way, making sure we're bringing the right solutions to bear to solve the problems looking after for the client as well as a technology partner that has the breath of everything you see on this floor that we can pick and choose different technologies to bring together to solve their exact needs. So having a partner like Dell is very important because ultimately allows us to pick the right solutions for the customer and bring to bear the exact solutions are going to solve their issues and do so in a way where they're going to be 100% optimised, where the solution that they're running is going to be near 100% optimisation as much as we can, and therefore that's going to value the business. Do you tend >>to these days, uh, to come into an organisation on a more sort of project basis? Or is it more things like we're talking digital transformation or data architecture? And then you figure out okay, where's the priorities? And the spending have to be is a kind of a top down or is it bottom up or a middle out? >>It tends to be a little bit of well, ultimately it ends up being both. So whether the conversation starts at a macro level and it's a more existential, how do we? How do we want to go to market and how do we want to support our business? A lot of conversations start that way. Sometimes it'll be bottom up where it is a specific project. We've got a net new application. We've got to go to market initiative, a new geography, whatever it happens to be. That is sort of what spawns that type of a dialogue. But ultimately, those two things do end up balancing out. Because if you do anything well and the expectation is that we're going to do things well, then it will grow. Or alternatively, if the aspiration is is that you want to do things in the best way possible, it will attract and pull through use cases and projects as and where required anyway. So the two things end up becoming pretty symbiotic, irrespective of whether it started as a top down. Michael meets a customer and sort of starts that way, or it's something from the grassroots up that it's more demand based from a project. >>When you have edged discussions with customers, how much of that is? You know, maybe it's the OT people or the folks out at the edge, and how much is I t involved in those discussions? >>It tends to be so. It's becoming more mainstream that it's a more holistic conversation, so a little bit is always the case. Some of the early conversations tend to be about use cases that are very business century so that you will have conversations with somebody who imagine somebody doing payments of distributed payments in financial services or something like that. And it's all about mobile banking and proximity and things. So you tend to talk to people about well, what are the potential use cases? How do you monetise some of those things? And then you talk to end up in a technology conversation or some could be potentially. Somebody says, Well, look, we've got the Capital Markets group want to do something, or the consumer banks want to go do something that's eccentric. How would we go about doing that from the organisation? We're now getting to a much greater degree of maturity with a lot of customers where it is a collaborative where you've got the person who owns the business problem or the business opportunity, plus the technology group. And it's a collaborative around. Well, what does the technology solution need to be able to offer up and deliver? And if we can do those things, how would we then go and leverage that technology and the most effective way to drive those types of business outcomes? We're talking about seeing >>a similar >>patterns. Yeah, I'm seeing very similar patterns. Ultimately, this is about tactical technology that has a strategic purpose. And you gotta remember we've had edge in one way, shape or form around for the last 30 years. We just haven't done it very well. And the thing is, we're starting to move a lot of these processes and a lot of these data collections, a lot of these analytics and a lot of knowledge engines, you know, out to the edge of the networks. And by doing so, that creates a strategic opportunity for folks in the organisations to figure out how that's going to work for them. And so it isn't necessarily a geeky conversation that we're having it strategically. We're looking to expand the way in which we're doing compute and doing data storage. It has these opportunities within the industry you're in. We're going to build this technology to make it happen. And that goes to both sides, people who do the implementation boards of directors and CEOs. But >>you can kick out if you have to, >>but they've all got to be there. And that collaboration seems like it's absolutely foundational to overall projects being successful. Guys, thank you so much for joining David me on the programme today. Talking about Dylan deployed better together and all the opportunities that there are to unlock the value and multi cloud. We appreciate your insights. >>Thanks for having us our >>pleasure. Thanks for our guests and a volonte. I'm Lisa Martin coming to you live from Las Vegas. Day two of our coverage of Dell Technologies World stick around. We'll be right back with our next guest. >>Thanks. >>Mm. Mhm. Mhm.

>>from around the globe. It's the Q with digital coverage of AWS Public sector online brought to you by Amazon Web services. Welcome back to the cubes. Virtual coverage of AWS Amazon Web services published. Public Sector Summit Online I'm John for your host with a great Gas Cube alumni Kate Goodall, Healthy in co founder and CEO, also known as the Halsey in house in the D C area. Kate, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Virtually >>you, too. Thanks for having me, John. >>We can't be there in person. Normally, we're in person by rain going to these events. We can't do it this year because of Cove in the Pandemic. But this topic that I'm proud to talk to you about is Bahrain Women intensive program and just diversity in the global tech scene in general. So first tell us what's going on with the 2021 by Rain. Women's initiative Intensive initiative. >>Yeah, absolutely. As you know, Housing Incubator has been running for about seven years now. We've welcomed during that time over 150 entrepreneurs through a full time fellowship program which you were there, John, you saw, you know It is a really unique program that includes residents in a ah house in Georgetown s O that people really get to sort of former community. But the full time residential program isn't the right fit preneurs. So we also offer these intensive housing incubator programs for early stage social entrepreneurs from different parts of the world in different industries and sectors. Um, a W s been an amazing partner both for the full time fellowship program on for many of these intensive, including one that was focused earlier this year on entrepreneurs, an opportunity zones in our very own city. Um, but this new intensive partnership is designed specifically to support tech oriented social enterprise startups that are founded by women and based in Bahrain s. So it's It's really nicely at this intersection of calcium goal off supporting entrepreneurs who are often underserved or underrepresented. And AWS is very clearly stated goal of diversifying leadership in tech. >>I was there last year in person Bahrain, and, uh, I went to the women's diversity um, breakfast and I'm like, This is exciting and I had to give up my seat. There was so many people, there was high demand eso I >>wanna >>ask you what >>is >>this program hoping to achieve the intensive initiative? >>Yeah. I mean, there's certain things that we're always seeking to achieve in supporting and serving sort of the brightest minds and the best ideas in social enterprise. On in many ways, this one is no different. Um, but we're really looking Thio Thio, find some incredible startups in Bahrain. Um, applications for the program start today. Andi will be measuring. You know, the success of the program on a number of factors, Aziz, we always do. You know, ultimately, it's the number of jobs that get created theme the quality and quantity of the impact of the startups Onda And ultimately, you know, revenue and dollars raised all of the things that you would measure a successful business by, um uh, s so we're just really excited to find some incredible ventures that fit really well in this in the selection criteria. Andi, we'll be looking thio. Everyone's help spread the word about this great opportunity. >>Congratulations on your new program. I wanna ask you specifically, if you could give some examples of the kinds of startups you're hoping to attract, so as you look at the candidates. What's gonna be the criteria you mentioned is a criteria What jumps off the page in your mind. >>Yeah. So we want people that really understand that. Why, you know, why are they starting that business on bond? Ideally, people that have a really good idea for a rapidly scaling tech startup that also has a double bottom line attached to it. So something whereby the business models succeeds and scales and achieves eso to with the impact that is inherent in that in that model, you know, some some examples from just passed cohorts at healthy. And, you know, we've had most recently, um, incredible entrepreneur that came out off the US prison system and was really interested in reducing recidivism and worked on a tech startup that allows families to communicate with incarcerated loved ones where through a tech platform where you can convert your text to a loved one into a postcard that then could be sent into the system because obviously people aren't allowed to communicate through cell phones when they're incarcerated s Oh, that's a good example of something where you know the profit and impact really scale themselves. Um, you know, similarly from just this. You know, recent cohorts, we had a, uh, founder who herself suffered from pulmonary pulmonary hypertension. And she created a really great wearable device that can attach to your ear. Looks just like an earring. It's quite fashionable, actually. I want one. And, um, it lets you know how your oxygen level is because she just didn't have access to something that was that easy and wearable, but needed to monitor her oxygen level. Turns out, that's actually really, ah, useful piece of technology during covert. So, you know, we're looking for people that are thinking about healthcare, thinking about the environment, thinking about education on decree, ating a sustainable business model that that will help them to scale that idea. >>I wanna get into the whole social entrepreneurship conversation. It's really great when I wanna unpack that, But let's stay on this program. Um, it's super exciting. How do people get involved? It's open, but there's some criteria. Um, you mentioned startups. You're looking for changing world double Bottom line. How do people get involved? >>Really excited. You asked that because I you know, I have some people that are watching can help us um certainly, uh, going to the home page of our website housing house dot or GTA. If anyone knows any great social entrepreneurs in Bahrain, please let them know and help us spread the word. Really happy to be working with AWS and startup Borane to do so. But we we want to, you know, make it as far and wide as possible. So both for people that are interested in applying to the program and also people that are interested in helping because we always pull together a vast network of mentors and advisors and investors to really make the programmers robustas possible, they should I would encourage everyone to reach out and get in touch either through the website or, uh at housing inspires on Social Media said that our team can get back to you >>for the question is how, um What? How will the selection process work and when will they be >>partnering with AWS and start up by rain? Thio select the best start up ventures. They'll be notified in December on by The program will begin virtually in January. >>And what are the winners get? They get money. Do they get mentoring? What can you talk >>about package, so every in computer program is a little bit different. But generally they all get, uh, some serious training and assigned mentor a specific skill. Siri's that's bespoke to that intensive, and those founders needs. But more than likely, this one will include, as as they all do, you know ways to plan Thio, acquire customers ways to improve your business model and make good projections ways to think about investment and how to understand. Um, investment bond, get investment should you need thio eso. It'll have all of that along with marketing and branding and how to measure impact. But then also some bespoke things. You know, once we know exactly what the founders needs are on but then very bespoke advisors and mentors in accordance with those needs >>and really nurturing that start up in that project to getting some traction, then hopefully track into some funding vehicles. I imagine right? >>Absolutely, absolutely, and access to D. C. S. You know, great landscape when it comes to this kind of thing, both in terms of sort of three institutions that air here and the investment that is here on do all of them will also, of course, receive a ws cloud computing credits and technical support, which we found to be profoundly helpful for all of our, um, tech startups or tech enabled startups. >>Yeah, I think that's one of the things that people don't realize that some free credits out there as well take advantage of those That's awesome. And I love how this ecosystem nurturing here. When I was in Bahrain, I noticed that very young demographics changing demographics. Diversity is huge. But like here in North America and all around the world, the lack of diversity in the tech sector has been a big conversation is always happening. Thes, impact driven businesses actually consult two things you're doing. A program that impacts the diversity as well as solves the problem for diversity. Talking about double Bottom line. Can you talk about this diversity? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, e think you know, it's interesting because we all know that diverse teams out perform. We all understand the imperative to do that, but you're right, it's it's not just a US problem or Bahrain problem. It's a global problem, you know. And I think one of the ways to solve it is to go early because we know that women founders and founders of color and other marginalized founders, you know, start businesses roughly at the same rate. But they generally don't grow as big, and they don't, um, uh often get us much investment. In fact, the investment numbers are quite stark. In terms of who receives venture capital eso. We know that there's a lot left to disrupt, but we also know that if we're going to solve the problems that we all face right now that we need the whole population involved in solving it. So we're really interested in in in creating a much better ecosystem everywhere for for women. Founders on DWI know that that requires the support of everyone, regardless of gender and background and lived experience. Eso it is it is an imperative. But it's also a tremendous opportunity, you know, to get more people involved on Bahrain's got some incredible women and some great, uh, resource is and pieces of the ecosystem already in place. Thio, I think really be a leader in this area. >>Yes. Start up our rain to you mentioned that they have a great program. They're they're really there to help the entrepreneur, and I think the key here and I want to get your reaction to this is that not only is that important to get off the ground and having someone to be around and being a community that fosters the kind of innovation, thinking and getting started, great. But you've had a very successful program. The Halsey in house housing house dot org's as you mentioned, the u R L. You've had success, but you've been physically in D. C. What have you learned from the house? Your house success that you're applying that could be applied for others? Toe learn. >>Yeah, there's there's a lot to unpack there. I mean, we've had a Zai mentioned about 150 you know, Fellows come through our doors and they've gone on to create over 1800 jobs around the world. Received $150 million in funding, which for early stage social social ventures is a really good mark of success. Andi have gone on to impact the lives of more than 2.5 million people around the world, so I hope that this program is that you know will be able to help empower these founders, um, in Bahrain to do exactly those things and to be able to scale the adventures to create that impact. You know, we've learned a lot about you know what these startups need. Um, you know, that goes beyond just sort of the the office space and sort of traditional incubator offerings that they need a really strong community around them to celebrate their successes and also to help them with their lows. Entrepreneurship is a very rocky journey, and so that community becomes really, really important. Eso we know a lot about building, you know, supportive, nurturing community. We also know that you know, women when they go to get investment, are going to receive 70% mawr prevention questions. And this is even from women venture capitalists, right? They just venture capitalists are creatures of habit, and they generally will just look at the patterns, successes and trends that they've had and repeat those. So they're going to be looking for the same types of people. Are they funded in the past, which are traditionally young white males and eso? We know that just by virtue of the system that we all live in on DWhite. It's implanted in all of us that women are going to receive more questions about the risk of their business many, many more than they will about the opportunity. So how do we train women for that landscape? You know, how do we train them to answer the questions about the risk realistically and fairly but pivot so that they get the same opportunities as a male entrepreneur, perhaps to answer questions about the ceiling as well as the floor. >>Yeah, and addresses trade up and understand the criteria and having that confidence. And I think that the great news is that we're all changing and we're all open to it. And there's more funds now like this and your >>leadership. E love that point, John. I think, you know, I think that everyone's eyes are open right, and I can say that sort of it with a really strong sense of conviction. That, like 2020 is is a great year for acknowledging this problem and for I think a lot of joint motivation to really properly address it. So I'm actually feeling really optimistic about it, >>and we're at a cultural crossroads. Everyone kind of knows that you're seeing it play out on the big stage of the world on again. Your leadership has been doing this, and I want to get your thoughts on this because you mentioned entrepreneurship, the ups and downs. Some call it a rollercoaster highs and lows. You have great days, and you have really, really bad days. And it's even compounded when you're not in the pattern matching world of what people are seeing. If you're a woman or under verse, a minority or group, I gotta ask you the question around mental health because one of the things, especially with co vid, is having that community. Because the ups and downs swings are important that people maintain their confidence, and mentors and community add value there. Can you talk about that important piece of the equation because it's it plays a big role, often not talked about much? Um, it is tough now more than ever than ever before, but still not enough. This community there, it's >>having support. We can, you know, we talk about it a lot of healthy and what people need to prioritize their mental health as they grow a business. And ultimately, if you're not doing a good job of that. Your business will not succeed because your team would be healthy and you're just it compounds. Um, so it's really imperative. And it does take a toll on founders on entrepreneurs, I think in in higher degrees. And it does in the general population because a small crack can become a chasm if people are not careful. Andi, everyone knows even if you're super passionate about something, putting in 20 hours a day, every day continuously is eventually going to catch up with you, right? So you have to create healthy habits from the beginning for you and your team on board. And certainly during covert we've seen some of those things exacerbated due to isolation. So that community peace becomes really, really important. I don't think she would mind me saying so. I'm going Thio mention that one of our previous entrepreneurs and Yang brilliant, brilliant woman actually did a great piece. Uh, you can just google and Yang entrepreneur depression, mental health and and it will come up for you, but just a really candid expose on what it is like. Thio be an entrepreneur that perhaps struggles with with mental health >>Yeah, it's super important. And I gotta say, I really love your work. I've always been an admirer of the Halsey in Mission and the people behind it, the halcyon house. And now you're taking it to buy rain under with an intensive kind of program. It's a global landscape. Final word, Kate. What should people know about this program? Summarize it real quick. >>We're just super happy to be reaching out and supporting a greater number off talented founders from the Middle East with Although Bahrain on our partners started, Borane and AWS have to offer. You know, we we love to expand our work to serve more and more entrepreneurs. And we couldn't be more excited to support these women. >>We're an upward better time now than ever. It's gonna be a big change happening. Big cultural change. Your part of it. Thank you for joining me. >>Thank you, John. >>Great to see you >>really appreciate it. >>Thank you. I'm John for your here. The cube. Virtual covering A W s public sector online. Thanks for watching

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCube. With digital coverage of VMworld 2020. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello, and welcome back to theCube virtual coverage of VMworld 2020. I'm John Furrier, host of theCube. VMworld's not in person this year, it's on the virtual internet. A lot of content, check it out, vmworld.com, a lot of great stuff, online demos, and a lot of great keynotes. Here we got a great conversation to unpack, the NVIDIA, the AI and all things Cloud Native. With Krish Prasad, who's the SVP and GM of Cloud Platform, Business Unit, and Manuvir Das head of enterprise computing at NVIDIA. Gentlemen, great to see you virtually. Thanks for joining me on the virtual Cube, for the virtual VMworld 2020. >> Thank you John. >> Pleasure to be here. >> Quite a world. And I think one of the things that obviously we've been talking about all year since COVID is the acceleration of this virtualized environment with media and everyone working at home remote. Really puts the pressure on digital transformation Has been well discussed and documented. You guys have some big news, obviously on the main stage NVIDIA CEO, Jensen there legend. And of course, you know, big momentum with with AI and GPUs and all things, you know, computing. Krish, what are your announcements today? You got some big news. Could you take a minute to explain the big announcements today? >> Yeah, John. So today we want to make two major announcements regarding our partnership with NVIDIA. So let's take the first one, and talk through it and then we can get to the second announcement later. In the first one, as you well know, NVIDIA is the leader in AI and VMware as the leader in virtualization and cloud. This announcement is about us teaming up, deliver a jointly engineered solution to the market to bring AI to every enterprise. So as you well know, VMware has more than 300,000 customers worldwide. And we believe that this solution would enable our customers to transform their data centers or AI applications running on top of their virtualized VMware infrastructure that they already have. And we think that this is going to vastly accelerate the adoption of AI and essentially democratize AI in the enterprise. >> Why AI? Why now Manuvir? Obviously we know the GPUs have set the table for many cool things, from mining Bitcoin to really providing a great user experience. But AI has been a big driver. Why now? Why VMware now? >> Yes. Yeah. And I think it's important to understand this is about AI more than even about GPUs, you know. This is a great moment in time where AI has finally come to life, because the hardware and software has come together to make it possible. And if you just look at industries and different parts of life, how is AI impacting? So for example, if you're a company on the internet doing business, everything you do revolves around making recommendations to your customers about what they should do next. This is based on AI. Think about the world we live in today, with the importance of healthcare, drug discovery, finding vaccines for something like COVID. That work is dramatically accelerated if you use AI. And what we've been doing in NVIDIA over the years is, we started with the hardware technology with the GPU, the Parallel Processor, if you will, that could really make these algorithms real. And then we worked very hard on building up the ecosystem. You know, we have 2 million developers today who work with NVIDIA AI. That's thousands of companies that are using AI today. But then if you think about what Krish said, you know about the number of customers that VMware has, which is in the hundreds of thousands, the opportunity before us really now is, how do we democratize this? How do we take this power of AI, that makes every customer and every person better and put it in the hands of every enterprise customer? And we need a great vehicle for that, and that vehicle is VMware. >> Guys, before we get to the next question, I would just want to get your personal take on this, because again, we've talked many times, both of you've been on theCube on this topic. But now I want to highlight, you mentioned the GPU that's hardware. This is software. VMware had hardware partners and then still software's driving it. Software's driving everything. Whether it's something in space, it's an IOT device or anything at the edge of the network. Software, is the value. This has become so obvious. Just share your personal take on this for folks who are now seeing this for the first time. >> Yeah. I mean, I'll give you my take first. I'm a software guy by background, I learned a few years ago for the first time that an array is a storage device and not a data structure in programming. And that was a shock to my system. Definitely the world is based on algorithms. Algorithms are implemented in software. Great hardware enables those algorithms. >> Krish, your thoughts. we live we're living in the future right now. >> Yeah, yeah. I would say that, I mean, the developers are becoming the center. They are actually driving the transformation in this industry, right? It's all about the application development, it's all about software, the infrastructure itself is becoming software defined. And the reason for that is you want the developers to be able to craft the infrastructure the way they need for the applications to run on top of. So it's all about software like I said. >> Software defined. Yeah, just want to get that quick self-congratulatory high five amongst ourselves virtually. (laughs) Congratulations. >> Exactly. >> Krish, last time we spoke at VMworld, we were obviously in person, but we talked about Tanzu and vSphere. Okay, you had Project Pacific. Does this expand? Does this announcement expand on that offering? >> Absolutely. As you know John, for the past several years, VMware has been on this journey to define the Hybrid Cloud Infrastructure, right? Essentially is the software stack that we have, which will enable our customers to provide a cloud operating model to their developers, irrespective of where they want to land their workloads. Whether they want to land their workloads On-Premise, or if they want it to be on top of AWS, Google, Azure, VMware stack is already running across all of them as you well know. And in addition to that, we have around, you know, 4,000, 5,000 service providers who are also running our Platform to deliver cloud services to their customers. So as part of that journey, last year, we took the Platform and we added one further element to it. Traditionally, our platform has been used by customers for running via VMs. Last year, we natively integrated Kubernetes into our platform. This was the big re architecture of vSphere, as we talked about. That was delivered to the market. And essentially now customers can use the same platform to run Kubernetes, Containers and VM workloads. The exact same platform, it is operationally the same. So the same skillsets, tools and processes can be used to run Kubernetes as well as VM applications. And the same platform runs, whether you want to run it On-Premise or in any of the clouds, as we talked about before. So that vastly simplifies the operational complexity that our customers have to deal with. And this is the next chapter in that journey, by doing the same thing for AI workload. >> You guys had great success with these Co-Engineering joined efforts. VMware and now with NVIDIA is interesting. It's very relevant and is very cool. So it's cool and relevant, so check, check. Manuvir, talk about this, because how do you bring that vision to the enterprises? >> Yeah, John, I think, you know, it's important to understand there is some real deep Computer Science here between the Engineers at VMware and NVIDIA. Just to lay that out, you can think of this as a three layer stack, right? The first thing that you need is, clearly you need the hardware that is capable of running these algorithms, that's what the GPU enable. Then you need a great software stack for AI, all the right Algorithmics that take advantage of that hardware. This is actually where NVIDIA spends most of its effort today. People may sometimes think of NVIDIA as a GPU company, but we have much more a software company now, where we have over the years created a body of work of all of the software that it actually takes to do good AI. But then how do you marry the software stack with the hardware? You need a platform in the middle that supports the applications and consumes the hardware and exposes it properly. And that's where vSphere, you know, as Krish described with either VMs or Containers comes into the picture. So the Computer Science here is, to wire all these things up together with the right algorithmics so that you get real acceleration. So as examples of early work that the two teams have done together, we have workloads in healthcare, for example. In cancer detection, where the acceleration we get with this new stack is 30X, right? The workload is running 30 times faster than it was running before this integration just on CPUs. >> Great performance increase again. You guys are hiring a lot of software developers. I can attest to knowing folks in Silicon Valley and around the world. So I know you guys are bringing the software jobs to the table on a great product by the way, so congratulations. Krish, Democratization of AI for the enterprise. This is a liberating opportunity, because one of the things we've heard from your customers and also from VMware, but mostly from the customer's successes, is that there's two types of extremes. There's the, I'm going to modernize my business, certainly COVID forcing companies, whether they're airlines or whatever, not a lot going on, they have an opportunity to modernize, to essentially modern apps that are getting a tailwind from these new digital transformation accelerated. How does AI democratize this? Cause you got people and you've got technology. (laughs) Right? So share your thoughts on how you see this democratizing. >> That's a very good question. I think if you look at how people are running AI applications today, like you go to an enterprise, you would see that there is a silo of bare metal sun works on the side, where the AI stack is run. And you have people with specialized skills and different tools and utilities that manage that environment. And that is what is standing in the way of AI taking off in the enterprise, right? It is not the use case. There are all these use cases which are mission critical that all companies want to do, right? Worldwide, that has been the case. It is about the complexity of life that is standing in the way. So what we are doing with this is we are saying, "hey, that whole solution stack that Manuvir talked about, is integrated into the VMware Virtualized Infrastructure." Whether it's On-Prem or in the cloud. And you can manage that environment with the exact same tools and processes and skills that you traditionally had for running any other application on VMware infrastructure. So, you don't need to have anything special to run this. And that's what is going to give us the acceleration that we talked about and essentially hive the Democratization of AI. >> That's a great point. I just want to highlight that and call that out, because AI's every use case. You could almost say theCube could have AI and we do actually have a little bit of AI and some of our transcriptions and work. But it's not so much just use cases, it's actually not just saying you got to do it. So taking down that blocker, the complexity, certainly is the key. And that's a great point. We're going to call that out after. Alright, let's move on to the second part of the announcement. Krish Project Monterey. This is a big deal. And it looks like a, you know, kind of this elusive, it's architectural thing, but it's directionally really strategic for VMware. Could you take a minute to explain this announcement? Frame this for us. >> Absolutely. I think John, you remember Pat got on stage last year at Vmworld and said, you know, "we are undertaking the biggest re architecture of the vSphere platform in the last 10 years." And he was talking about natively embedding Kubernetes, in vSphere, right? Remember Tanzu and Project Pacific. This year we are announcing Project Monterrey. It's a project that is significant with several partners in the industry, along with NVIDIA was one of the key partners. And what we are doing is we are reimagination of the data center for the next generation applications. And at the center of it, what we are going to do is rearchitect vSphere and ESX. So that the ESX can normally run on the CPU, but it'll also run on the Smart Mix. And what this gives us is the whole, let's say data center, infrastructure type services to be offloaded from running on the CPU onto the Smart Mix. So what does this provide the applications? The applications then will perform better. And secondly, it provides an extra layer of security for the next generation applications. Now we are not going to stop there. We are going to use this architecture and extended it so that we can finally eliminate one of the big silos that exist in the enterprise, which is the bare metal silo. Right? Today we have virtualized environments and bare metal, and what this architecture will do is bring those bare metal environments also under ESX management. So you ESX will manage environments which are virtualized and environments which are running bare metal OS. And so that's one big breakthrough and simplification for the elimination of silo or the elimination of, you know, specialized skills to keep it running. And lastly, but most importantly, where we are going with this. That just on the question you asked us earlier about software defined and developers being in control. Where we want to go with this is give developers, the application developers, the ability to really define and create their run time on the Fly, dynamically. So think about it. If dynamically they're able to describe how the application should run. And the infrastructure essentially kind of attaches computer resources on the Fly, whether they are sitting in the same server or somewhere in the network as pools of resources. Bring it all together and compose the runtime environment for them. That's going to be huge. And they won't be constrained anymore by the resources that are tied to the physical server that they are running on. And that's the vision of where we are taking it. It is going to be the next big change in the industry in terms of enterprise computing. >> Sounds like an Operating System to me. Yeah. Run time, assembly orchestration, all these things coming together, exciting stuff. Looking forward to digging in more after Vmworld. Manuvir, how does this connect to NVIDIA and AI? Tie that together for us. >> Yeah, It's an interesting question, because you would think, you know, okay, so NVIDIA this GPU company or this AI company. But you have to remember that INVIDIA is also a networking company. Because friends at Mellanox joined us not that long ago. And the interesting thing is that there's a Yin and Yang here, because, Krish described the software vision, which is brilliant. And what this does is it imposes a lot on the host CPU of the server to do. And so what we've be doing in parallel is developing hardware. A new kind of "Nick", if you will, we call it a DPU or a Data Processing Unit or a Smart Nick that is capable of hosting all this stuff. So, amusingly when Krish and I started talking, we exchanged slides and we basically had the same diagram for our vision of where things go with that software, the infrastructure software being offloaded, data center infrastructure on a chip, if you will. Right? And so it's a very natural confluence. We are very excited to be part of this, >> Yeah. >> Monterey program with Krish and his team. And we think our DPU, which is called the NVIDIA BlueField-2, is a pretty good device to empower the work that Krish's team is doing. >> Guys it's awesome stuff. And I got to say, you know, I've been covering Vmworld now 11 years with theCube, and I've known VMware since its founding, just the evolution. And just recently before VMworld, you know, you saw the biggest IPO in the history of Wall Street, Snowflake an Enterprise Data Cloud Company. The number one IPO ever. Enterprise tech is so exciting. This is really awesome. And NVIDIA obviously well known, great brand. You own some chip company as well, and get processors and data and software. Guys, customers are going to be very interested in this, so what should customers do to find out more? Obviously you've got Project Monterey, strategic direction, right? Framed perfectly. You got this announcement. If I'm a customer, how do I get involved? How do I learn more? And what's in it for me. >> Yeah, John, I would say, sorry, go ahead, Krish. >> No, I was just going to say sorry Manuvir. I was just going to say like a lot of these discussions are going to be happening, there are going to be panel discussions there are going to be presentations at Vmworld. So I would encourage customers to really look at these topics around Project Monterey and also about the AI work we are doing with NVIDIA and attend those sessions and be active and we will have a ways for them to connect with us in terms of our early access programs and whatnot. And then as Manuvir was about to say, I think Manuvir, I will give it to you about GTC. >> Yeah, I think right after that, we have the NVIDIA conference, which is GTC, where we'll also go over this. And I think some of this work is a lot closer to hand than people might imagine. So I would encourage watching all the sessions and learning more about how to get started. >> Yeah, great stuff. And just for the folks @vmworld.com watching, Cloud City's got 60 solution demos, go look for the sessions. You got the EX, the expert sessions, Raghu, Joe Beda amongst other people from VMware are going to be there. And of course, a lot of action on the content. Guys, thanks so much for coming on. Congratulations on the news, big news. NVIDIA on the Bay in Virtual stage here at VMworld. And of course you're in theCube. Thanks for coming. Appreciate it. >> Thank you for having us. Okay. >> Thank you very much. >> This is Cube's coverage of VMworld 2020 virtual. I'm John Furrier, host of theCube virtual, here in Palo Alto, California for VMworld 2020. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with coverage of Coop con and cloud, native con Europe 2020 Virtual brought to you by Red Hat, The Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners >>Welcome back. This is the Cube coverage of Cube Con Cloud, native con, the European show for 2020. I'm your host to Minuteman. And when we talk about the container world, we talk about what's happening in cloud. Native storage has been one of those sticking points. One of those things that you know has been challenging, that we've been looking to mature and really happy to welcome back to the program two of our cube alumni to give us the update on the state of storage for the container world. Both of them are oh, founders and CEOs. First of all, we have Xiang Yang from Rancher Labs, of course, was recently acquired by Sue Save it and the intention to acquire on and also joining us from early the relay. Who is with port works? Shang Amerli. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you. Alright. So early. I actually I'm going to start with you just cause you know we've seen, you know, a couple of waves of companies working on storage. In this environment, we know storage is difficult. Um, And when we change how we're building things, there's architectural things that can happen. Eso maybe if you could just give us a snapshot, you know, Port works, you know, was created to help unpack this. You know, straight on here in 2020 you know, where you see things in the overall kind of computer storage landscape? >>Absolutely. Still, before I kind of jump into port works. I just want to take a minute to publicly congratulate the the whole rancher team, and and Shang and Shannon And will China have known those folks for a while there? They're kind of true entrepreneurs. They represent the serial entrepreneur spirit that that so many folks know in the valley, and so, you know, great outcome for them. We're very happy for them and ah, big congrats and shout out to the whole team. What works is is a little over five years old, and we've been kind of right from the inception of the company recognized that to put containers in production, you're gonna have to solve, not just the orchestration problem. But the issue of storage and data orchestration and so in a natural kubernetes orchestrates containers and what works orchestrates storage and data. And more specifically, by doing that, what we enable is enterprises to be able to take APS that are containerized into production at scale and and have high availability. Disaster recovery, backup all of the things that for decades I t has had to do and has done to support application, reliability and availability. But essentially we're doing it for purpose with the purpose build solution for containerized workloads. >>Alright, shaming. Of course, storage is a piece of the overall puzzle that that ranchers trying to help with. Maybe if you could just refresh our audience on Longhorn, which your organization has its open source. It's now being managed by the CN. CF is my understanding. So help us bring Longhorn into the discussion >>thanks to. So I'm really glad to be here. We've I think rancher and port work started about the same time, and we started with a slightly different focus. More is exactly right to get containers going, you really need both so that the computer angle orchestrating containers as well as orchestrating the storage and the data. So rancher started with, ah, it's slightly stronger focus on orchestrating containers themselves, but pretty quickly, we realized, as adoption of containers grow, we really need it to be able to handle ah, storage feather. And like any new technology, you know, uh, Kubernetes and containers created some interesting new requirements and opportunities, and at the time, really, they weren't. Ah, a lot of good technologies available, you know, technologies like rook and SEF at the time was very, very premature, I think, Ah, the You know, we actually early on try to incorporate ah, the cluster technology. And it was just it was just not easy. And And at the time I think port Works was, ah, very busy developing. Ah, what turned out to be there flagship product, which we end up, end up, uh, partnering very, very closely. But but early on, we really had no choice but to start developing our own storage technology. So Long horn. As a piece of container storage technology, it's actually almost as oh, there's rancher itself. When about funding engineers, we hired he he ended up, you know, working on it and Then over the years, you know the focus shift that I think the original version was written in C plus plus, and over the years it's now being completely re written in Golan. It was originally written more for Docker workload. Now, of course, everything is kubernetes centric. And last year we you know, we we decided to donate the Longhorn Open Source project to CN CF. And now it's a CN CF sandbox project, and the adoption is just growing really quickly. And just earlier this year, we we finally ah decided to we're ready to offer a commercial support for it. So So that's that's where rancher is. And with longhorn and container storage technology. >>Yeah, it has been really interesting to watch in this ecosystem. A couple of years ago, one of the Q con shows I was talking to people coming out of the Believe It was the Sigs, the special interest group for storage, and it was just like, Wow, it was heated. Words were, you know, back and forth. There's not a lot of agreement there. Anybody that knows the storage industry knows that you know standards in various ways of doing things often are contentious and there's there's differences of opinion. Look at the storage industry. You know, there's a reason why there's so many different solutions out there. So maybe it love to hear from early. From your standpoint, things are coming to get a little bit more. There are still a number of options out there. So you know, why is this kind of coop petition? I actually good for the industry? >>Yeah, I think this is a classic example of Coop petition. Right? Let's let's start with the cooperation part right? The first part of time the you know, the early days of CN, CF, and even sort of the Google Communities team, I think, was really very focused on compute and and subsequent years. In the last 34 years, there's been a greater attention to making the whole stack works, because that's what it's going to take to take a the enterprise class production and put it in, you know, enterprise class application and put it in production. So extensions like C and I for networking and CS I container storage interface. We're kind of put together by a working group and and ah ah you know both both in the CN CF, but also within the kubernetes Google community. That's you talked about six storage as an example. And, you know, as always happens, right? Like it It looks a little bit in the early days. Like like a polo game, right where folks are really? Ah, you know, seemingly, uh, you know, working with each other on on top of the pool. But underneath they're kicking each other furiously. But that was a long time back, and we've graduated from then into really cooperating. And I think it's something we should all be proud of. Where now the CS I interface is really a A really very, very strong and complete solution tow, allowing communities to orchestrate storage and data. So it's really strengthened both communities and the kubernetes ecosystem. Now the competition part. Let's kind of spend. I want to spend a couple of minutes on that too, right? Um, you know, one of the classic things that people sometimes confuse is the difference between an overlay and an interface. CSC is wonderful because it defines how the two layers off essentially kind of old style storage. You know, whether it's a san or ah cloud, elastic storage bucket or all of those interact with community. So the the definition of that interface kind of lay down some rules and parameters for how that interaction should happen. However, you still always need an overlay like Port Works that that actually drives that interface and enables Kubernetes to actually manage that storage. And that's where the competition is. And, you know, she mentioned stuff and bluster and rook and kind of derivatives of those. And I think those have been around really venerable and and really excellent products for born in a different era for a different time open stack, object storage and all of that not really meant for kind of primary workloads. And they've been they've been trying to be adapted for, for for us, for this kind of workload. Port Works is really a built from right from the inception to be designed for communities and for kubernetes workloads at enterprise scale. And so I think, you know, as I as I look at the landscape, we welcome the fact that there are so many more people acknowledging that there is a vital need for data orchestration on kubernetes right, that that's why everybody and their brother now has a CS I interface. However, I think there's a big difference between having an interface. This is actually having the software that provides the functionality for H. A, D R. And and for backup, as as the kind of life cycle matures and doing it not just at scale, but in a way that allows kind of really significant removal or reduction off the storage admin role and replaces it with self service that is fully automated within communities. Yeah, if I >>can, you know, add something that that I completely agree. I mean, over the Longhorns been around for a long time. Like I said, I'm really happy that over the years it hasn't really impacted our wonderful collaborative partnership with what works. I mean, Poll works has always been one of our premier partners. We have a lot of, ah, common customers in this fight. I know these guys rave about what works. I don't think they'll ever get out for works. Ah, home or not? Uh huh. Exactly. Like Morissette, you know, in the in the storage space, there's interface, which a lot of different implementations can plugging, and that's kind of how rancher works. So we always tell people Rancher works with three types of storage implementations. One is let we call legacy storage. You know, your netapp, your DMC, your pure storage and those are really solid. But they were not suddenly not designed to work with containers to start with, but it doesn't matter. They've all written CS I interfaces that would enable containers to take advantage of. The second type is some of the cloud a block storage or file storage services like EBS, GFS, Google Cloud storage and support for these storage back and the CS I drivers practically come with kubernetes itself, so those are very well supported. But there's still a huge amount of opportunities for the third type of you know, we call container Native Storage. So that is where Port Works and the Longhorn and other solutions like open EBS storage OS. All these guys fitting is a very vibrant ecosystem of innovation going on there. So those solutions are able to create basically reliable storage from scratch. You know, when you from from just local disks and they're actually also able to add a lot of value on top of whatever traditional or cloud based, persistent storage you already have. So so the whole system, the whole ecosystem, is developing very quickly. A lot of these solutions work with each other, and I think to me it's really less of a competition or even Coop petition. It's really more off raising the bar for for the capabilities so that we can accelerate the amount of workload that's been moved onto this wonderful kubernetes platform in the end of the benefit. Everyone, >>Well, I appreciate you both laying out some of the options, you know, showing just a quick follow up on that. I think back if you want. 15 years ago was often okay. I'm using my GMC for my block. I'm using my netapp for the file. I'm wondering in the cloud native space, if we expect that you might have multiple different data engine types in there you mentioned you know, I might want port works for my high performance. You said open EBS, very popular in the last CN CF survey might be another one there. So is do we think some of it is just kind of repeating itself that storage is not monolithic and in a micro service architecture. You know, different environments need different storage requirements. >>Yeah, I mean quick. I love to hear more is view as well, especially about you know, about how the ecosystem is developing. But from my perspective, just just the range of capabilities that's now we expect out of storage vendors or data management vendors is just increased tremendously. You know, in the old days, if you can store blocks to object store file, that's it. Right. So now it's this is just table stakes. Then then what comes after that? There will be 345 additional layers of requirements come all the way from backup, restore the our search indexing analytics. So I really think all of this potentially off or in the in the bucket of the storage ecosystem, and I just can't wait to see how this stuff will play out. I think we're still very, very early stages, and and there, you know what? What, what what containers did is they made fundamentally the workload portable, but the data itself still holds a lot of gravity. And then just so much work to do to leverage the fundamental work load portability. Marry that with some form of universal data management or data portability. I think that would really, uh, at least the industry to the next level. Marie? >>Yeah. Shanghai Bean couldn't. Couldn't have said it better. Right? Let me let me let me kind of give you Ah, sample. Right. We're at about 160 plus customers now, you know, adding several by the month. Um, just with just with rancher alone, right, we are. We have common customers in all common video expedient Roche March X, Western Asset Management. You know, charter communications. So we're in production with a number off rancher customers. What are these customers want? And why are they kind of looking at a a a Port works class of solution to use, You know, Xiang's example of the multiple types, right? Many times, people can get started with something in the early days, which has a CS I interface with maybe say, $10 or 8 to 10 nodes with a solution that allows them to at least kind of verify that they can run the stack up and down with, say, you know, a a rancher type orchestrator, workloads that are containerized on and a network plug in and a storage plugging. But really, once they start to get beyond 20 notes or so, then there are problems that are very, very unique to containers and kubernetes that pop up that you don't see in a in a non containerized environment, right? Some. What are some of these things, right? Simple examples are how can you actually run 10 to hundreds of containers on a server, with each one of those containers belonging to a different application and having different requirements? How do you actually scale? Not to 16 nodes, which is sort of make typically, maybe Max of what a San might go to. But hundreds and thousands of notes, like many of our customers, are doing like T Mobile Comcast. They're running this thing at 600 thousands of notes or scale is one issue. Here is a critical critical difference that that something that's designed for Kubernetes does right. We are providing all off the storage functions that Shang just described at container granted, granularity versus machine granularity. One way to think about this is the old Data center was in machine based construct. Construct everything you know. VM Ware is the leader, sort of in that all of the way. You think of storage as villains. You think of compute and CPUs, everything. Sub sub nets, right? All off. Traditional infrastructure is very, very machine centric. What kubernetes and containers do is move it into becoming an app defined control plane, right? One of the things were super excited about is the fact that Kubernetes is really not just a container orchestrator, but actually a orchestrator for infrastructure in an app defined way. And by doing that, they have turned, uh, you know, control off the infrastructure via communities over to a kubernetes segment. The same person who uses rancher uses port works at NVIDIA, for example to manage storage as they use it, to manage the compute and to manage containers. And and that's marvellous, because now what has happened is this thing is now fully automated at scale and and actually can run without the intervention off a storage admin. No more trouble tickets, right? No more requests to say, Hey, give me another 20 terabytes. All of that happens automatically with the solution like port works. And in fact, if you think about it in the world of real time services that we're all headed towards right Services like uber now are expected in enterprises machine learning. Ai all of these things analytics that that change talk about are things that you expect to run in a fully automated way across vast amounts of data that are distributed sometimes in the edge. And you can't do that unless you're fully automated and and not really the storage admin intervention. And that's kind of the solution that we provide. >>Alright, well, we're just about out of time. If I could just last piece is, you know, early and saying to talk about where we are with long for and what we should expect to see through the rest of this year and get some early for you to you know, what differentiates port works from Just, you know, the open source version. So And maybe if we start with just kind of long or in general and then really from from your standpoint, >>yeah, so it's so so the go along one is really to lower the bar for folks to run state for workloads on on kubernetes we want you know, the the Longhorn is 100% open source and it's owned by CN cf now. So we in terms of features and functionalities is obviously a small subset of what a true enterprise grade solution like Port Works or, um, CEO on that that could provide. So there's just, you know, the storage role. Ah, future settle. The roadmap is very rich. I don't think it's not really Ranchers go Oh, our Longhorns goal to, you know, to try to turn itself into a into a plug in replacement for these enterprise, great storage or data management solutions. But But they're you know, there's some critical critical feature gaps that we need address. And that's what the team is gonna be focusing on, perhaps for the rest of the year. >>Yeah, uh, still, I would I would kind of, you know, echo what Chang said, right? I think folks make it started with solutions, like longer or even a plug in connector plug in with one of their existing storage vendors, whether it's pure netapp or or EMC from our viewpoint, that's wonderful, because that allows them to kind of graduate to where they're considering storage and data as part of the stack. They really should that's the way they're going to succeed by by looking at it as a whole and really with, You know, it's a great way to get started on a proof of concept architecture where your focus initially is very much on the orchestration and the container ization part. But But, as Xiang pointed out, you know what what rancher did, what I entered it for Kubernetes was build a simple, elegant, robust solution that kind of democratized communities. We're doing the same thing for communities storage right? What Port works does is have a solution that is simple, elegant, fully automated, scalable and robust. But more importantly, it's a complete data platform, right? We we go where all these solutions start, but don't kind of venture forward. We are a full, complete lifecycle management for data across that whole life cycle. So there's many many customers now are buying port works and then adding deal right up front, and then a few months later they might come back and I'd backup from ports. So two shanks point right because of the uniqueness of the kubernetes workload, because it is an app defined control plane, not machine to find what is happening is it's disrupting, Just like just like virtualization day. VM exist today because because they focused on a VM version off. You know, the their backup solution. So the same thing is happening. Kubernetes workloads are district causing disruption of the D r and backup and storage market with solutions like sports. >>Wonderful. Merlin Chang. Thank you so much for the updates. Absolutely. The promise of containers A Z you were saying? Really, is that that Atomic unit getting closer to the application really requires storage to be a full and useful solution. So great to see the progress that's being made. Thank you so much for joining us. >>Welcome, Shannon. We look forward to ah, working with you as you reach for the stars. Congratulations again. We look >>forward to the containing partnership morally and thank you. Still for the opportunity here. >>Absolutely great talking to both of you And stay tuned. Lots more coverage of the Cube Cube Con cloud, native con 2020 Europe. I'm stew minimum. And thank you for watching the Cube. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

(electronic music) >> From Santa Clara, California in the heart of Silicon Valley, its theCUBE. Covering Altitude 2020, brought to you by Aviatrix. (electronic music) >> Female pilot: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking, we will soon be taking off on our way to altitude. (upbeat music) Please keep your seat belts fastened and remain in your seat. We will be experiencing turbulence, until we are above the clouds. (thunder blasting) (electronic music) (seatbelt alert sounds) Ladies and gentlemen, we are now cruising at altitude. Sit back and enjoy the ride. (electronic music) >> Female pilot: Altitude is a community of thought leaders and pioneers, cloud architects and enlightened network engineers, who have individually and are now collectively, leading their own IT teams and the industry. On a path to lift cloud networking above the clouds. Empowering enterprise IT to architect, design and control their own cloud network, regardless of the turbulent clouds beneath them. It's time to gain altitude. Ladies and gentlemen, Steve Mullaney, president and CEO of Aviatrix. The leader of multi-cloud networking. (electronic music) (audience clapping) >> Steve: All right. (audience clapping) Good morning everybody, here in Santa Clara as well as to the millions of people watching the livestream worldwide. Welcome to Altitude 2020, all right. So, we've got a fantastic event, today, I'm really excited about the speakers that we have today and the experts that we have and really excited to get started. So, one of the things I wanted to share was this is not a one-time event. This is not a one-time thing that we're going to do. Sorry for the Aviation analogy, but, you know, Sherry Wei, aviatrix means female pilot so everything we do has an aviation theme. This is a take-off, for a movement. This isn't an event, this is a take-off of a movement. A multi-cloud networking movement and community that we're inviting all of you to become part of. And why we're doing that, is we want to enable enterprises to rise above the clouds, so to speak and build their network architecture, regardless of which public cloud they're using. Whether it's one or more of these public clouds. So the good news, for today, there's lots of good news but this is one good news, is we don't have any PowerPoint presentations, no marketing speak. We know that marketing people have their own language. We're not using any of that, and no sales pitches, right? So instead, what are we doing? We're going to have expert panels, we've got Simon Richard, of Gartner here. We've got ten different network architects, cloud architects, real practitioners that are going to share their best practices and their real world experiences on their journey to the multi-cloud. So, before we start, everybody know what today is? In the U.S., it's Super Tuesday. I'm not going to get political, but Super Tuesday there was a bigger, Super Tuesday that happened 18 months ago. And Aviatrix employees know what I'm talking about. Eighteen months ago, on a Tuesday, every enterprise said, "I'm going to go to the cloud". And so what that was, was the Cambrian explosion, for cloud, for the enterprise. So, Frank Cabri, you know what a Cambrian explosion is. He had to look it up on Google. 500 million years ago, what happened, there was an explosion of life where it went from very simple single-cell organisms to very complex, multi-cell organisms. Guess what happened 18 months ago, on a Tuesday, I don't really know why, but every enterprise, like I said, all woke up that day and said, "Now I'm really going to go to cloud" and that Cambrian explosion of cloud meant that I'm moving from a very simple, single cloud, single-use case, simple environment, to a very complex, multi-cloud, complex use case environment. And what we're here today, is we're going to go undress that and how do you handle those, those complexities? And, when you look at what's happening, with customers right now, this is a business transformation, right? People like to talk about transitions, this is a transformation and it's actually not just a technology transformation, it's a business transformation. It started from the CEO and the Boards of enterprise customers where they said, "I have an existential threat to the survival of my company." If you look at every industry, who they're worried about is not the other 30-year-old enterprise. What they're worried about is the three year old enterprise that's leveraging cloud, that's leveraging AI, and that's where they fear that they're going to actually wiped out, right? And so, because of this existential threat, this is CEO led, this is Board led, this is not technology led, it is mandated in the organizations. We are going to digitally transform our enterprise, because of this existential threat and the movement to cloud is going to enable us to go do that. And so, IT is now put back in charge. If you think back just a few years ago, in cloud, it was led by DevOps, it was led by the applications and it was, like I said, before the Cambrian explosion, it was very simple. Now, with this Cambrian explosion, an enterprise is getting very serious and mission critical. They care about visibility, they care about control, they care about compliance, conformance, everything, governance. IT is in charge and that's why we're here today to discuss that. So, what we're going to do today, is much of things but we're going to validate this journey with customers. >> Steve: Did they see the same thing? We're going to validate the requirements for multi-cloud because, honestly, I've never met an enterprise that is not going to be multicloud. Many are one cloud today but they all say, " I need to architect my network for multiple clouds", because that's just what, the network is there to support the applications and the applications will run in whatever cloud it runs best in and you have to be prepared for that. The second thing is, is architecture. Again, with IT in charge, you, architecture matters. Whether its your career, whether its how you build your house, it doesn't matter. Horrible architecture, your life is horrible forever. Good architecture, your life is pretty good. So, we're going to talk about architecture and how the most fundamental and critical part of that architecture and that basic infrastructure is the network. If you don't get that right, nothing works, right? Way more important than compute. Way more important than storage. Network is the foundational element of your infrastructure. Then we're going to talk about day two operations. What does that mean? Well day one is one day of your life, where you wire things up they do and beyond. I tell everyone in networking and IT -- it's every day of your life. And if you don't get that right, your life is bad forever. And so things like operations, visibility, security, things like that, how do I get my operations team to be able to handle this in an automated way because it's not just about configuring it in the cloud, it's actually about how do I operationalize it? And that's a huge benefit that we bring as Aviatrix. And then the last thing we're going to talk and it's the last panel we have, I always sayyou can't forget about the humans, right? So all this technology, all these things that we're doing, it's always enabled by the humans. At the end of the day, if the humans fight it, it won't get deployed. And we have a massive skills gap, in cloud and we also have a massive skills shortage. You have everyone in the world trying to hire cloud network architects, right? There's just not enough of them going around. So, at Aviatrix, we said as leaders do, "We're going to help address that issue and try to create more people." We created a program, what we call the ACE Program, again, aviation theme, it stands for Aviatrix Certified Engineer. Very similar to what Cisco did with CCIEs where Cisco taught you about IP networking, a little bit of Cisco, we're doing the same thing, we're going to teach network architects about multicloud networking and architecture and yeah, you'll get a little bit of Aviatrix training in there, but this is the missing element for people's careers and also within their organizations. So we're going to go talk about that. So, great, great event, great show. We're going to try to keep it moving. I next want to introduce, my host, he is the best in the business, you guys have probably seen him multiple, many times, he is the co-CEO and co founder of theCUBE, John Furrier. (audience clapping) (electronic music) >> John: Okay, awesome, great speech there, awesome. >> Yeah. >> I totally agree with everything you said about the explosion happening and I'm excited, here at the heart of silicon valley to have this event. It's a special digital event with theCUBE and Aviatrix, where we're live-streaming to, millions of people, as you said, maybe not a million. >> Maybe not a million. (laughs) Really to take this program to the world and this is really special for me, because multi-cloud is the hottest wave in cloud. And cloud-native networking is fast becoming the key engine, of the innovations, so we got an hour and a half of action-packed programming. We have a customer panel. Two customer panels. Before that Gartner's going to come out, talk about the industry. We have global system integrators, that will talk about, how their advising and building these networks and cloud native networking. And then finally the ACE's, the Aviatrix Certified Engineers, are going to talk more about their certifications and the expertise needed. So, let's jump right in, let's ask, Simon Richard to come on stage, from Gartner. We'll kick it all off. (electronic music) (clapping) >> John: Hi, can I help you. Okay, so kicking things off, getting started. Gartner, the industry experts on cloud. Really kind of more, cue your background. Talk about your background before you got to Gartner? >> Simon: Before being at Gartner, I was a chief network architect, of a Fortune 500 company, that with thousands of sites over the world and I've been doing everything in IT from a C programmer, in the 90, to a security architect, to a network engineer, to finally becoming a network analyst. >> So you rode the wave. Now you're covering the marketplace with hybrid cloud and now moving quickly to multi-cloud, is really what everyone is talking about. >> Yes. >> Cloud-native's been discussed, but the networking piece is super important. How do you see that evolving? >> Well, the way we see Enterprise adapting, cloud. The first thing you do about networking, the initial phases they either go in a very ad hoc way. Is usually led by none IT, like a shadow IT, or application people, sometime a DevOps team and it just goes as, it's completely unplanned. They create VPC's left and right with different account and they create mesh to manage them and they have Direct Connect or Express Route to any of them. So that's the first approach and on the other side. again within our first approach you see what I call, the lift and shift. Where we see like enterprise IT trying to, basically replicate what they have in a data center, in the Cloud. So they spend a lot of time planning, doing Direct Connect, putting Cisco routers and F5 and Citrix and any checkpoint, Palo Alto device, that in a sense are removing that to the cloud. >> I got to ask you, the aha moment is going to come up a lot, in one our panels, is where people realize, that it's a multi-cloud world. I mean, they either inherit clouds, certainly they're using public cloud and on-premises is now more relevant than ever. When's that aha moment? That you're seeing, where people go, "Well I got to get my act together and get on this cloud." >> Well the first, right, even before multi-cloud. So there is two approach's. The first one, like the adult way doesn't scare. At some point IT has to save them, 'cause they don't think about the tools, they don't think about operation, they have a bunch of VPC and multiple cloud. The other way, if you do the lift and shift way, they cannot take any advantages of the cloud. They lose elasticity, auto-scaling, pay by the drink. All these agility features. So they both realize, okay, neither of these ways are good, so I have to optimize that. So I have to have a mix of what I call, the cloud native services, within each cloud. So they start adapting, like all the AWS Construct, Azure Construct or Google Construct and that's what I call the optimal phase. But even that they realize, after that, they are all very different, all these approaches different, the cloud are different. Identities is constantly, difficult to manage across clouds. I mean, for example, anybody who access' accounts, there's subscription, in Azure and GCP, their projects. It's a real mess, so they realized, well I don't really like constantly use the cloud product and every cloud, that doesn't work. So I have, I'm going multi-cloud, I like to abstract all of that. I still want to manage the cloud from an EPI point of view, I don't necessarily want to bring my incumbent data center products, but I have to do that and in a more EPI driven cloud environment. >> So, the not scaling piece that you where mentioning, that's because there's too many different clouds? >> Yes. >> That's the least they are, so what are they doing? What are they, building different development teams? Is it software? What's the solution? >> Well, the solution is to start architecting the cloud. That's the third phase. I called that the multi-cloud architect phase, where they have to think about abstraction that works across cloud. Fact, even across one cloud it might not scale as well, If you start having like ten thousand security agreement, anybody who has that doesn't scale. You have to manage that. If you have multiple VPC, it doesn't scale. You need a third-party, identity provider. In variously scales within one cloud, if you go multiple cloud, it gets worse and worse. >> Steve, weigh in here. What's your thoughts? >> I thought we said this wasn't going to be a sales pitch for Aviatrix. (laughter) You just said exactly what we do, so anyway, that's a joke. What do you see in terms of where people are, in that multi-cloud? So, like lot of people, you know, everyone I talk to, started at one cloud, right, but then they look and then say okay but I'm now going to move to Azure and I'm going to move to... (trails off) Do you see a similar thing? >> Well, yes. They are moving but there's not a lot of application, that uses three cloud at once, they move one app in Azure, one app in AWS and one app in Google. That's what we see so far. >> Okay, yeah, one of the mistakes that people think, is they think multi-cloud. No one is ever going to go multi-cloud, for arbitrage. They're not going to go and say, well, today I might go into Azure, 'cause I get a better rate on my instance. Do you agree? That's never going to happen. What I've seen with enterprise, is I'm going to put the workload in the app, the app decides where it runs best. That may be Azure, maybe Google and for different reasons and they're going to stick there and they're not going to move. >> Let me ask you guys-- >> But the infrastructure, has to be able to support, from a networking team. >> Yes. >> Be able to do that. Do you agree with that? >> Yes, I agree. And one thing is also very important, is connecting to the cloud, is kind of the easiest thing. So, the wide area network part of the cloud, connectivity to the cloud is kind of simple. >> Steve: I agree. >> IP's like VPN, Direct Connect, Express Route. That's the simple part, what's difficult and even the provisioning part is easy. You can use Terraform and create VPC's and Vnet's across your three cloud provider. >> Steve: Right. >> What's difficult is that they choose the operation. So we'll define day two operation. What does that actually mean? >> Its just the day to day operations, after you know, the natural, lets add an app, lets add a server, lets troubleshoot a problem. >> Something changes, now what do you do? >> So what's the big concerns? I want to just get back to the cloud native networking, because everyone kind of knows what cloud native apps are. That's been the hot trend. What is cloud native networking? How do you guys, define that? Because that seems to be the hardest part of the multi-cloud wave that's coming, is cloud native networking. >> Well there's no, you know, official Gartner definition but I can create one on the spot. >> John: Do it. (laughter) >> I just want to leverage the Cloud Construct and the cloud EPI. I don't want to have to install, like a... (trails off) For example, the first version was, let's put a virtual router that doesn't even understand the cloud environment. >> Right. If I have if I have to install a virtual machine, it has to be cloud aware. It has to understand the security group, if it's a router. It has to be programmable, to the cloud API. And understand the cloud environment. >> And one thing I hear a lot from either CSO's, CIO's or CXO's in general, is this idea of, I'm definitely not going API. So, its been an API economy. So API is key on that point, but then they say. Okay, I need to essentially have the right relationship with my suppliers, aka you called it above the clouds. So the question is... What do I do from an architectural standpoint? Do I just hire more developers and have different teams, because you mentioned that's a scale point. How do you solve this problem of, okay, I got AWS, I got GCP, or Azure, or whatever. Do I just have different teams or do I just expose EPI's? Where is that optimization? Where's the focus? >> Well, I think what you need, from a network point of view is a way, a control plane across the three clouds. And be able to use the API's of the cloud, to build networks but also to troubleshoot them and do day to day operation. So you need a view across the three clouds, that takes care of routing, connectivity. >> Steve: Performance. >> John: That's the Aviatrix plugin, right there. >> Steve: Yeah. So, how do you see, so again, your Gartner, you see the industry. You've been a network architect. How do you see this this playing out? What are the legacy incumbent client server, On Prem networking people, going to do? >> Well they need to.. >> Versus people like a Aviatrix? How do you see that playing out? >> Well obviously, all the incumbents, like Arista, Cisco, Juniper, NSX. >> Steve: Right. >> They want to basically do the lift and shift part, they want to bring, and you know, VMware want to bring in NSX on the cloud, they call that "NSX everywhere" and Cisco want to bring in ACI to the cloud, they call that "ACI Anywhere". So, everyone's.. (trails off) And then there's CloudVision from Arista, and Contrail is in the cloud. So, they just want to bring the management plane, in the cloud, but it's still based, most of them, is still based on putting a VM in them and controlling them. You extend your management console to the cloud, that's not truly cloud native. >> Right. >> Cloud native you almost have to build it from scratch. >> We like to call that cloud naive. >> Cloud naive, yeah. >> So close, one letter, right? >> Yes. >> That was a big.. (slurs) Reinvent, take the T out of Cloud Native. It's Cloud Naive. (laughter) >> That went super viral, you guys got T-shirts now. I know you're loving that. >> Steve: Yeah. >> But that really, ultimately, is kind of a double-edged sword. You can be naive on the architecture side and ruleing that. And also suppliers or can be naive. So how would you define who's naive and who's not? >> Well, in fact, their evolving as well, so for example, in Cisco, it's a little bit more native than other ones, because there really is, "ACI in the cloud", you can't really figure API's out of the cloud. NSX is going that way and so is Arista, but they're incumbent, they have their own tools, its difficult for them. They're moving slowly, so it's much easier to start from scratch. Even you, like, you know, a network company that started a few years ago. There's only really two, Aviatrix was the first one, they've been there for at least three or four years. >> Steve: Yeah. >> And there's other one's, like Akira, for example that just started. Now they're doing more connectivity, but they want to create an overlay network, across the cloud and start doing policies and things. Abstracting all the clouds within one platform. >> So, I got to ask you. I interviewed an executive at VMware, Sanjay Poonen, he said to me at RSA last week. Oh, there'll only be two networking vendors left, Cisco and VMware. (laughter) >> What's you're response to that? Obviously when you have these waves, these new brands that emerge, like Aviatrix and others. I think there'll be a lot of startups coming out of the woodwork. How do you respond to that comment? >> Well there's still a data center, there's still, like a lot, of action on campus and there's the wan. But from the cloud provisioning and cloud networking in general, I mean, they're behind I think. You know, you don't even need them to start with, you can, if you're small enough, you can just keep.. If you have AWS, you can use the AWS construct, they have to insert themselves, I mean, they're running behind. From my point of view. >> They are, certainly incumbents. I love the term Andy Jess uses at Amazon web services. He uses "Old guard, new guard", to talk about the industry. What does the new guard have to do? The new brands that are emerging. Is it be more DevOp's oriented? Is it NetSec ops? Is it NetOps? Is it programmability? These are some of the key discussions we've been having. What's your view, on how you see this programmability? >> The most important part is, they have to make the network simple for the Dev teams. You cannot make a phone call and get a Vline in two weeks anymore. So if you move to the cloud, you have to make that cloud construct as simple enough, so that for example, a Dev team could say, "Okay, I'm going to create this VPC, but this VPC automatically associates your account, you cannot go out on the internet. You have to go to the transit VPC, so there's lot of action in terms of, the IAM part and you have to put the control around them to. So to make it as simple as possible. >> You guys, both. You're the CEO of Aviatrix, but also you've got a lot of experience, going back to networking, going back to the, I call it the OSI days. For us old folks know what that means, but, you guys know what this means. I want to ask you the question. As you look at the future of networking, you hear a couple objections. "Oh, the cloud guys, they got networking, we're all set with them. How do you respond to the fact that networking's changing and the cloud guys have their own networking. What's some of the paying points that's going on premises of these enterprises? So are they good with the clouds? What needs... What are the key things that's going on in networking, that makes it more than just the cloud networking? What's your take on it? >> Well as I said earlier. Once you could easily provision in the cloud, you can easily connect to the cloud, its when you start troubleshooting applications in the cloud and try to scale. So that's where the problem occurred. >> Okay, what's your take on it. >> And you'll hear from the customers, that we have on stage and I think what happens is all the clouds by definition, designed to the 80-20 rule which means they'll design 80% of the basic functionality. And then lead to 20% extra functionality, that of course every Enterprise needs, to leave that to ISV's, like Aviatrix. Because why? Because they have to make money, they have a service and they can't have huge instances, for functionality that not everybody needs. So they have to design to the common and that, they all do it, right? They have to and then the extra, the problem is, that Cambrian explosion, that I talked about with enterprises. That's what they need. They're the ones who need that extra 20%. So that's what I see, there's always going to be that extra functionality. In an automated and simple way, that you talked about, but yet powerful. With the up with the visibility and control, that they expect of On Prem. That kind of combination, that Yin and the Yang, that people like us are providing. >> Simon I want to ask you? We're going to ask some of the cloud architect, customer panels, that same question. There's pioneer's doing some work here and there's also the laggards who come in behind their early adopters. What's going to be the tipping point? What are some of these conversations, that the cloud architects are having out there? Or what's the signs, that they need to be on this, multi-cloud or cloud native networking trend? What are some of the signal's that are going on in the environment? What are some of the thresholds? Are things that are going on, that they can pay attention to? >> Well, once they have the application on multiple cloud and they have to get wake up at two in the morning, to troubleshoot them. They'll know it's important. (laughter) So, I think that's when the rubber will hit the road. But, as I said, it's easier to prove, at any case. Okay, it's AWS, it's easy, user transit gateway, put a few VPC's and you're done. And you create some presents like Equinox and do a Direct Connect and Express Route with Azure. That looks simple, its the operations, that's when they'll realize. Okay, now I need to understand! How cloud networking works? I also need a tool, that gives me visibility and control. But not only that, I need to understand the basic underneath it as well. >> What are some of the day in the life scenarios. you envision happening with multi-cloud, because you think about what's happening. It kind of has that same vibe of interoperability, choice, multi-vendor, 'cause they're multi-cloud. Essentially multi-vendor. These are kind of old paradigms, that we've lived through with client server and internet working. What are some of the scenarios of success, that might be possible? Will be possible, with multi-cloud and cloud native networking. >> Well, I think, once you have good enough visibility, to satisfy your customers, not only, like to, keep the service running and application running. But to be able to provision fast enough, I think that's what you want to achieve. >> Simon, final question. Advice for folks watching on the Livestream, if they're sitting there as a cloud architect or CXO. What's your advice to them right now, in this market, 'cause obviously, public cloud check, hybrid cloud, they're working on that. That gets on premises done, now multi-cloud's right behind it. What's your advice? >> The first thing they should do, is really try to understand cloud networking. For each of their cloud providers and then understand the limitations. And, is what the cloud service provider offers enough? Or you need to look to a third party, but you don't look at a third party to start with. Especially an incumbent one, so it's tempting to say "I have a bunch of F5 experts", nothing against F5. I'm going to bring my F5 in the Cloud, when you can use an ELB, that automatically understand eases and auto scaling and so on. And you understand that's much simpler, but sometimes you need your F5, because you have requirements. You have like iRules and that kind of stuff, that you've used for years. 'cause you cannot do it. Okay, I have requirement and that's not met, I'm going to use Legacy Star and then you have to start thinking, okay, what about visibility control, above the true cloud. But before you do that you have to understand the limitations of the existing cloud providers. First, try to be as native as possible, until things don't work, after that you can start thinking of the cloud. >> Great insight, Simon. Thank you. >> That's great. >> With Gartner, thank you for sharing. (electronic music)

(electronic music) >> From Santa Clara, California in the heart of Silicon Valley, its theCUBE. Covering Altitude 2020, brought to you by Aviatrix. (electronic music) >> Female pilot: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking, we will soon be taking off on our way to altitude. (upbeat music) Please keep your seat belts fastened and remain in your seat. We will be experiencing turbulence, until we are above the clouds. (thunder blasting) (electronic music) (seatbelt alert sounds) Ladies and gentlemen, we are now cruising at altitude. Sit back and enjoy the ride. (electronic music) >> Female pilot: Altitude is a community of thought leaders and pioneers, cloud architects and enlightened network engineers, who have individually and are now collectively, leading their own IT teams and the industry. On a path to lift cloud networking above the clouds. Empowering enterprise IT to architect, design and control their own cloud network, regardless of the turbulent clouds beneath them. It's time to gain altitude. Ladies and gentlemen, Steve Mullaney, president and CEO of Aviatrix. The leader of multi-cloud networking. (electronic music) (audience clapping) >> Steve: All right. (audience clapping) Good morning everybody, here in Santa Clara as well as to the millions of people watching the livestream worldwide. Welcome to Altitude 2020, all right. So, we've got a fantastic event, today, I'm really excited about the speakers that we have today and the experts that we have and really excited to get started. So, one of the things I wanted to share was this is not a one-time event. This is not a one-time thing that we're going to do. Sorry for the Aviation analogy, but, you know, Sherry Wei, aviatrix means female pilot so everything we do has an aviation theme. This is a take-off, for a movement. This isn't an event, this is a take-off of a movement. A multi-cloud networking movement and community that we're inviting all of you to become part of. And why we're doing that, is we want to enable enterprises to rise above the clouds, so to speak and build their network architecture, regardless of which public cloud they're using. Whether it's one or more of these public clouds. So the good news, for today, there's lots of good news but this is one good news, is we don't have any PowerPoint presentations, no marketing speak. We know that marketing people have their own language. We're not using any of that, and no sales pitches, right? So instead, what are we doing? We're going to have expert panels, we've got Simon Richard, of Gartner here. We've got ten different network architects, cloud architects, real practitioners that are going to share their best practices and their real world experiences on their journey to the multi-cloud. So, before we start, everybody know what today is? In the U.S., it's Super Tuesday. I'm not going to get political, but Super Tuesday there was a bigger, Super Tuesday that happened 18 months ago. And Aviatrix employees know what I'm talking about. Eighteen months ago, on a Tuesday, every enterprise said, "I'm going to go to the cloud". And so what that was, was the Cambrian explosion, for cloud, for the enterprise. So, Frank Cabri, you know what a Cambrian explosion is. He had to look it up on Google. 500 million years ago, what happened, there was an explosion of life where it went from very simple single-cell organisms to very complex, multi-cell organisms. Guess what happened 18 months ago, on a Tuesday, I don't really know why, but every enterprise, like I said, all woke up that day and said, "Now I'm really going to go to cloud" and that Cambrian explosion of cloud meant that I'm moving from a very simple, single cloud, single-use case, simple environment, to a very complex, multi-cloud, complex use case environment. And what we're here today, is we're going to go undress that and how do you handle those, those complexities? And, when you look at what's happening, with customers right now, this is a business transformation, right? People like to talk about transitions, this is a transformation and it's actually not just a technology transformation, it's a business transformation. It started from the CEO and the Boards of enterprise customers where they said, "I have an existential threat to the survival of my company." If you look at every industry, who they're worried about is not the other 30-year-old enterprise. What they're worried about is the three year old enterprise that's leveraging cloud, that's leveraging AI, and that's where they fear that they're going to actually wiped out, right? And so, because of this existential threat, this is CEO led, this is Board led, this is not technology led, it is mandated in the organizations. We are going to digitally transform our enterprise, because of this existential threat and the movement to cloud is going to enable us to go do that. And so, IT is now put back in charge. If you think back just a few years ago, in cloud, it was led by DevOps, it was led by the applications and it was, like I said, before the Cambrian explosion, it was very simple. Now, with this Cambrian explosion, an enterprise is getting very serious and mission critical. They care about visibility, they care about control, they care about compliance, conformance, everything, governance. IT is in charge and that's why we're here today to discuss that. So, what we're going to do today, is much of things but we're going to validate this journey with customers. >> Steve: Did they see the same thing? We're going to validate the requirements for multi-cloud because, honestly, I've never met an enterprise that is not going to be multicloud. Many are one cloud today but they all say, " I need to architect my network for multiple clouds", because that's just what, the network is there to support the applications and the applications will run in whatever cloud it runs best in and you have to be prepared for that. The second thing is, is architecture. Again, with IT in charge, you, architecture matters. Whether its your career, whether its how you build your house, it doesn't matter. Horrible architecture, your life is horrible forever. Good architecture, your life is pretty good. So, we're going to talk about architecture and how the most fundamental and critical part of that architecture and that basic infrastructure is the network. If you don't get that right, nothing works, right? Way more important than compute. Way more important than storage. Network is the foundational element of your infrastructure. Then we're going to talk about day two operations. What does that mean? Well day one is one day of your life, where you wire things up they do and beyond. I tell everyone in networking and IT -- it's every day of your life. And if you don't get that right, your life is bad forever. And so things like operations, visibility, security, things like that, how do I get my operations team to be able to handle this in an automated way because it's not just about configuring it in the cloud, it's actually about how do I operationalize it? And that's a huge benefit that we bring as Aviatrix. And then the last thing we're going to talk and it's the last panel we have, I always sayyou can't forget about the humans, right? So all this technology, all these things that we're doing, it's always enabled by the humans. At the end of the day, if the humans fight it, it won't get deployed. And we have a massive skills gap, in cloud and we also have a massive skills shortage. You have everyone in the world trying to hire cloud network architects, right? There's just not enough of them going around. So, at Aviatrix, we said as leaders do, "We're going to help address that issue and try to create more people." We created a program, what we call the ACE Program, again, aviation theme, it stands for Aviatrix Certified Engineer. Very similar to what Cisco did with CCIEs where Cisco taught you about IP networking, a little bit of Cisco, we're doing the same thing, we're going to teach network architects about multicloud networking and architecture and yeah, you'll get a little bit of Aviatrix training in there, but this is the missing element for people's careers and also within their organizations. So we're going to go talk about that. So, great, great event, great show. We're going to try to keep it moving. I next want to introduce, my host, he is the best in the business, you guys have probably seen him multiple, many times, he is the co-CEO and co founder of theCUBE, John Furrier. (audience clapping) (electronic music) >> John: Okay, awesome, great speech there, awesome. >> Yeah. >> I totally agree with everything you said about the explosion happening and I'm excited, here at the heart of silicon valley to have this event. It's a special digital event with theCUBE and Aviatrix, where we're live-streaming to, millions of people, as you said, maybe not a million. >> Maybe not a million. (laughs) Really to take this program to the world and this is really special for me, because multi-cloud is the hottest wave in cloud. And cloud-native networking is fast becoming the key engine, of the innovations, so we got an hour and a half of action-packed programming. We have a customer panel. Two customer panels. Before that Gartner's going to come out, talk about the industry. We have global system integrators, that will talk about, how their advising and building these networks and cloud native networking. And then finally the ACE's, the Aviatrix Certified Engineers, are going to talk more about their certifications and the expertise needed. So, let's jump right in, let's ask, Simon Richard to come on stage, from Gartner. We'll kick it all off. (electronic music) (clapping) >> John: Hi, can I help you. Okay, so kicking things off, getting started. Gartner, the industry experts on cloud. Really kind of more, cue your background. Talk about your background before you got to Gartner? >> Simon: Before being at Gartner, I was a chief network architect, of a Fortune 500 company, that with thousands of sites over the world and I've been doing everything in IT from a C programmer, in the 90, to a security architect, to a network engineer, to finally becoming a network analyst. >> So you rode the wave. Now you're covering the marketplace with hybrid cloud and now moving quickly to multi-cloud, is really what everyone is talking about. >> Yes. >> Cloud-native's been discussed, but the networking piece is super important. How do you see that evolving? >> Well, the way we see Enterprise adapting, cloud. The first thing you do about networking, the initial phases they either go in a very ad hoc way. Is usually led by none IT, like a shadow IT, or application people, sometime a DevOps team and it just goes as, it's completely unplanned. They create VPC's left and right with different account and they create mesh to manage them and they have Direct Connect or Express Route to any of them. So that's the first approach and on the other side. again within our first approach you see what I call, the lift and shift. Where we see like enterprise IT trying to, basically replicate what they have in a data center, in the Cloud. So they spend a lot of time planning, doing Direct Connect, putting Cisco routers and F5 and Citrix and any checkpoint, Palo Alto device, that in a sense are removing that to the cloud. >> I got to ask you, the aha moment is going to come up a lot, in one our panels, is where people realize, that it's a multi-cloud world. I mean, they either inherit clouds, certainly they're using public cloud and on-premises is now more relevant than ever. When's that aha moment? That you're seeing, where people go, "Well I got to get my act together and get on this cloud." >> Well the first, right, even before multi-cloud. So there is two approach's. The first one, like the adult way doesn't scare. At some point IT has to save them, 'cause they don't think about the tools, they don't think about operation, they have a bunch of VPC and multiple cloud. The other way, if you do the lift and shift way, they cannot take any advantages of the cloud. They lose elasticity, auto-scaling, pay by the drink. All these agility features. So they both realize, okay, neither of these ways are good, so I have to optimize that. So I have to have a mix of what I call, the cloud native services, within each cloud. So they start adapting, like all the AWS Construct, Azure Construct or Google Construct and that's what I call the optimal phase. But even that they realize, after that, they are all very different, all these approaches different, the cloud are different. Identities is constantly, difficult to manage across clouds. I mean, for example, anybody who access' accounts, there's subscription, in Azure and GCP, their projects. It's a real mess, so they realized, well I don't really like constantly use the cloud product and every cloud, that doesn't work. So I have, I'm going multi-cloud, I like to abstract all of that. I still want to manage the cloud from an EPI point of view, I don't necessarily want to bring my incumbent data center products, but I have to do that and in a more EPI driven cloud environment. >> So, the not scaling piece that you where mentioning, that's because there's too many different clouds? >> Yes. >> That's the least they are, so what are they doing? What are they, building different development teams? Is it software? What's the solution? >> Well, the solution is to start architecting the cloud. That's the third phase. I called that the multi-cloud architect phase, where they have to think about abstraction that works across cloud. Fact, even across one cloud it might not scale as well, If you start having like ten thousand security agreement, anybody who has that doesn't scale. You have to manage that. If you have multiple VPC, it doesn't scale. You need a third-party, identity provider. In variously scales within one cloud, if you go multiple cloud, it gets worse and worse. >> Steve, weigh in here. What's your thoughts? >> I thought we said this wasn't going to be a sales pitch for Aviatrix. (laughter) You just said exactly what we do, so anyway, that's a joke. What do you see in terms of where people are, in that multi-cloud? So, like lot of people, you know, everyone I talk to, started at one cloud, right, but then they look and then say okay but I'm now going to move to Azure and I'm going to move to... (trails off) Do you see a similar thing? >> Well, yes. They are moving but there's not a lot of application, that uses three cloud at once, they move one app in Azure, one app in AWS and one app in Google. That's what we see so far. >> Okay, yeah, one of the mistakes that people think, is they think multi-cloud. No one is ever going to go multi-cloud, for arbitrage. They're not going to go and say, well, today I might go into Azure, 'cause I get a better rate on my instance. Do you agree? That's never going to happen. What I've seen with enterprise, is I'm going to put the workload in the app, the app decides where it runs best. That may be Azure, maybe Google and for different reasons and they're going to stick there and they're not going to move. >> Let me ask you guys-- >> But the infrastructure, has to be able to support, from a networking team. >> Yes. >> Be able to do that. Do you agree with that? >> Yes, I agree. And one thing is also very important, is connecting to the cloud, is kind of the easiest thing. So, the wide area network part of the cloud, connectivity to the cloud is kind of simple. >> Steve: I agree. >> IP's like VPN, Direct Connect, Express Route. That's the simple part, what's difficult and even the provisioning part is easy. You can use Terraform and create VPC's and Vnet's across your three cloud provider. >> Steve: Right. >> What's difficult is that they choose the operation. So we'll define day two operation. What does that actually mean? >> Its just the day to day operations, after you know, the natural, lets add an app, lets add a server, lets troubleshoot a problem. >> Something changes, now what do you do? >> So what's the big concerns? I want to just get back to the cloud native networking, because everyone kind of knows what cloud native apps are. That's been the hot trend. What is cloud native networking? How do you guys, define that? Because that seems to be the hardest part of the multi-cloud wave that's coming, is cloud native networking. >> Well there's no, you know, official Gartner definition but I can create one on the spot. >> John: Do it. (laughter) >> I just want to leverage the Cloud Construct and the cloud EPI. I don't want to have to install, like a... (trails off) For example, the first version was, let's put a virtual router that doesn't even understand the cloud environment. >> Right. If I have if I have to install a virtual machine, it has to be cloud aware. It has to understand the security group, if it's a router. It has to be programmable, to the cloud API. And understand the cloud environment. >> And one thing I hear a lot from either CSO's, CIO's or CXO's in general, is this idea of, I'm definitely not going API. So, its been an API economy. So API is key on that point, but then they say. Okay, I need to essentially have the right relationship with my suppliers, aka you called it above the clouds. So the question is... What do I do from an architectural standpoint? Do I just hire more developers and have different teams, because you mentioned that's a scale point. How do you solve this problem of, okay, I got AWS, I got GCP, or Azure, or whatever. Do I just have different teams or do I just expose EPI's? Where is that optimization? Where's the focus? >> Well, I think what you need, from a network point of view is a way, a control plane across the three clouds. And be able to use the API's of the cloud, to build networks but also to troubleshoot them and do day to day operation. So you need a view across the three clouds, that takes care of routing, connectivity. >> Steve: Performance. >> John: That's the Aviatrix plugin, right there. >> Steve: Yeah. So, how do you see, so again, your Gartner, you see the industry. You've been a network architect. How do you see this this playing out? What are the legacy incumbent client server, On Prem networking people, going to do? >> Well they need to.. >> Versus people like a Aviatrix? How do you see that playing out? >> Well obviously, all the incumbents, like Arista, Cisco, Juniper, NSX. >> Steve: Right. >> They want to basically do the lift and shift part, they want to bring, and you know, VMware want to bring in NSX on the cloud, they call that "NSX everywhere" and Cisco want to bring in ACI to the cloud, they call that "ACI Anywhere". So, everyone's.. (trails off) And then there's CloudVision from Arista, and Contrail is in the cloud. So, they just want to bring the management plane, in the cloud, but it's still based, most of them, is still based on putting a VM in them and controlling them. You extend your management console to the cloud, that's not truly cloud native. >> Right. >> Cloud native you almost have to build it from scratch. >> We like to call that cloud naive. >> Cloud naive, yeah. >> So close, one letter, right? >> Yes. >> That was a big.. (slurs) Reinvent, take the T out of Cloud Native. It's Cloud Naive. (laughter) >> That went super viral, you guys got T-shirts now. I know you're loving that. >> Steve: Yeah. >> But that really, ultimately, is kind of a double-edged sword. You can be naive on the architecture side and ruleing that. And also suppliers or can be naive. So how would you define who's naive and who's not? >> Well, in fact, their evolving as well, so for example, in Cisco, it's a little bit more native than other ones, because there really is, "ACI in the cloud", you can't really figure API's out of the cloud. NSX is going that way and so is Arista, but they're incumbent, they have their own tools, its difficult for them. They're moving slowly, so it's much easier to start from scratch. Even you, like, you know, a network company that started a few years ago. There's only really two, Aviatrix was the first one, they've been there for at least three or four years. >> Steve: Yeah. >> And there's other one's, like Akira, for example that just started. Now they're doing more connectivity, but they want to create an overlay network, across the cloud and start doing policies and things. Abstracting all the clouds within one platform. >> So, I got to ask you. I interviewed an executive at VMware, Sanjay Poonen, he said to me at RSA last week. Oh, there'll only be two networking vendors left, Cisco and VMware. (laughter) >> What's you're response to that? Obviously when you have these waves, these new brands that emerge, like Aviatrix and others. I think there'll be a lot of startups coming out of the woodwork. How do you respond to that comment? >> Well there's still a data center, there's still, like a lot, of action on campus and there's the wan. But from the cloud provisioning and cloud networking in general, I mean, they're behind I think. You know, you don't even need them to start with, you can, if you're small enough, you can just keep.. If you have AWS, you can use the AWS construct, they have to insert themselves, I mean, they're running behind. From my point of view. >> They are, certainly incumbents. I love the term Andy Jess uses at Amazon web services. He uses "Old guard, new guard", to talk about the industry. What does the new guard have to do? The new brands that are emerging. Is it be more DevOp's oriented? Is it NetSec ops? Is it NetOps? Is it programmability? These are some of the key discussions we've been having. What's your view, on how you see this programmability? >> The most important part is, they have to make the network simple for the Dev teams. You cannot make a phone call and get a Vline in two weeks anymore. So if you move to the cloud, you have to make that cloud construct as simple enough, so that for example, a Dev team could say, "Okay, I'm going to create this VPC, but this VPC automatically associates your account, you cannot go out on the internet. You have to go to the transit VPC, so there's lot of action in terms of, the IAM part and you have to put the control around them to. So to make it as simple as possible. >> You guys, both. You're the CEO of Aviatrix, but also you've got a lot of experience, going back to networking, going back to the, I call it the OSI days. For us old folks know what that means, but, you guys know what this means. I want to ask you the question. As you look at the future of networking, you hear a couple objections. "Oh, the cloud guys, they got networking, we're all set with them. How do you respond to the fact that networking's changing and the cloud guys have their own networking. What's some of the paying points that's going on premises of these enterprises? So are they good with the clouds? What needs... What are the key things that's going on in networking, that makes it more than just the cloud networking? What's your take on it? >> Well as I said earlier. Once you could easily provision in the cloud, you can easily connect to the cloud, its when you start troubleshooting applications in the cloud and try to scale. So that's where the problem occurred. >> Okay, what's your take on it. >> And you'll hear from the customers, that we have on stage and I think what happens is all the clouds by definition, designed to the 80-20 rule which means they'll design 80% of the basic functionality. And then lead to 20% extra functionality, that of course every Enterprise needs, to leave that to ISV's, like Aviatrix. Because why? Because they have to make money, they have a service and they can't have huge instances, for functionality that not everybody needs. So they have to design to the common and that, they all do it, right? They have to and then the extra, the problem is, that Cambrian explosion, that I talked about with enterprises. That's what they need. They're the ones who need that extra 20%. So that's what I see, there's always going to be that extra functionality. In an automated and simple way, that you talked about, but yet powerful. With the up with the visibility and control, that they expect of On Prem. That kind of combination, that Yin and the Yang, that people like us are providing. >> Simon I want to ask you? We're going to ask some of the cloud architect, customer panels, that same question. There's pioneer's doing some work here and there's also the laggards who come in behind their early adopters. What's going to be the tipping point? What are some of these conversations, that the cloud architects are having out there? Or what's the signs, that they need to be on this, multi-cloud or cloud native networking trend? What are some of the signal's that are going on in the environment? What are some of the thresholds? Are things that are going on, that they can pay attention to? >> Well, once they have the application on multiple cloud and they have to get wake up at two in the morning, to troubleshoot them. They'll know it's important. (laughter) So, I think that's when the rubber will hit the road. But, as I said, it's easier to prove, at any case. Okay, it's AWS, it's easy, user transit gateway, put a few VPC's and you're done. And you create some presents like Equinox and do a Direct Connect and Express Route with Azure. That looks simple, its the operations, that's when they'll realize. Okay, now I need to understand! How cloud networking works? I also need a tool, that gives me visibility and control. But not only that, I need to understand the basic underneath it as well. >> What are some of the day in the life scenarios. you envision happening with multi-cloud, because you think about what's happening. It kind of has that same vibe of interoperability, choice, multi-vendor, 'cause they're multi-cloud. Essentially multi-vendor. These are kind of old paradigms, that we've lived through with client server and internet working. What are some of the scenarios of success, that might be possible? Will be possible, with multi-cloud and cloud native networking. >> Well, I think, once you have good enough visibility, to satisfy your customers, not only, like to, keep the service running and application running. But to be able to provision fast enough, I think that's what you want to achieve. >> Simon, final question. Advice for folks watching on the Livestream, if they're sitting there as a cloud architect or CXO. What's your advice to them right now, in this market, 'cause obviously, public cloud check, hybrid cloud, they're working on that. That gets on premises done, now multi-cloud's right behind it. What's your advice? >> The first thing they should do, is really try to understand cloud networking. For each of their cloud providers and then understand the limitations. And, is what the cloud service provider offers enough? Or you need to look to a third party, but you don't look at a third party to start with. Especially an incumbent one, so it's tempting to say "I have a bunch of F5 experts", nothing against F5. I'm going to bring my F5 in the Cloud, when you can use an ELB, that automatically understand eases and auto scaling and so on. And you understand that's much simpler, but sometimes you need your F5, because you have requirements. You have like iRules and that kind of stuff, that you've used for years. 'cause you cannot do it. Okay, I have requirement and that's not met, I'm going to use Legacy Star and then you have to start thinking, okay, what about visibility control, above the true cloud. But before you do that you have to understand the limitations of the existing cloud providers. First, try to be as native as possible, until things don't work, after that you can start thinking of the cloud. >> Great insight, Simon. Thank you. >> That's great. >> With Gartner, thank you for sharing. (electronic music) >> Welcome back to ALTITUDE 2020. For the folks in the live stream, I'm John Furrier, Steve Mullaney, CEO of Aviatrix. For our first of two customer panels with cloud network architects, we've got Bobby Willoughby, AEGON Luis Castillo from National Instruments and David Shinnick with FactSet. Guys, welcome to the stage for this digital event. Come on up. (audience clapping) (upbeat music) Hey good to see you, thank you. Customer panel, this is my favorite part. We get to hear the real scoop, we get the Gardener giving us the industry overview. Certainly, multi-cloud is very relevant, and cloud-native networking is a hot trend with the live stream out there in the digital events. So guys, let's get into it. The journey is, you guys are pioneering this journey of multi-cloud and cloud-native networking and are soon going to be a lot more coming. So I want to get into the journey. What's it been like? Is it real? You've got a lot of scar tissue? What are some of the learnings? >> Absolutely. Multi-cloud is whether or not we accept it, as network engineers is a reality. Like Steve said, about two years ago, companies really decided to just bite the bullet and move there. Whether or not we accept that fact, we need to not create a consistent architecture across multiple clouds. And that is challenging without orchestration layers as you start managing different tool sets and different languages across different clouds. So it's really important to start thinking about that. >> Guys on the other panelists here, there's different phases of this journey. Some come at it from a networking perspective, some come in from a problem troubleshooting, what's your experiences? >> From a networking perspective, it's been incredibly exciting, it's kind of once in a generational opportunity to look at how you're building out your network. You can start to embrace things like infrastructure as code that maybe your peers on the systems teams have been doing for years, but it just never really worked on-prem. So it's really exciting to look at all the opportunities that we have and all of the interesting challenges that come up that you get to tackle. >> And effects that you guys are mostly AWS, right? >> Yeah. Right now though, we are looking at multiple clouds. We have production workloads running in multiple clouds today but a lot of the initial work has been with Amazon. >> And you've seen it from a networking perspective, that's where you guys are coming at it from? >> Yup. >> Awesome. How about you? >> We evolve more from a customer requirement perspective. Started out primarily as AWS, but as the customer needed more resources from Azure like HPC, Azure AD, things like that, even recently, Google analytics, our journey has evolved into more of a multi-cloud environment. >> Steve, weigh in on the architecture because this is going to be a big conversation, and I wanted you to lead this section. >> I think you guys agree the journey, it seems like the journey started a couple of years ago. Got real serious, the need for multi-cloud, whether you're there today. Of course, it's going to be there in the future. So that's really important. I think the next thing is just architecture. I'd love to hear what you, had some comments about architecture matters, it all starts, every enterprise I talked to. Maybe talk about architecture and the importance of architects, maybe Bobby. >> From architecture perspective, we started our journey five years ago. >> Wow, okay. >> And we're just now starting our fourth evolution over network architect. And we call it networking security net sec, versus just as network. And that fourth-generation architecture should be based primarily upon the Palo Alto Networks and Aviatrix. Aviatrix to new orchestration piece of it. But that journey came because of the need for simplicity, the need for a multi-cloud orchestration without us having to go and do reprogramming efforts across every cloud as it comes along. >> I guess the other question I also had around architecture is also... Luis maybe just talk about it. I know we've talked a little bit about scripting, and some of your thoughts on that. >> Absolutely. So for us, we started creating the network constructs with cloud formation, and we've stuck with that for the most part. What's interesting about that is today, on-premise, we have a lot of automation around how we provision networks, but cloud formation has become a little bit like the new manual for us. We're now having issues with having to automate that component and making it consistent with our on-premise architecture and making it consistent with Azure architecture and Google cloud. So, it's really interesting to see companies now bring that layer of abstraction that SD-WAN brought to the wound side, now it's going up into the cloud networking architecture. >> Great. So on the fourth generation, you mentioned you're on the fourth-gen architecture. What have you learned? Is there any lessons, scratch issue, what to avoid, what worked? What was the path that you touched? >> It's probably the biggest lesson there is that when you think you finally figured it out, you haven't. Amazon will change something, Azure change something. Transit Gateway is a game-changer. And listening to the business requirements is probably the biggest thing we need to do upfront. But I think from a simplicity perspective, like I said, we don't want to do things four times. We want to do things one time, we want be able to write to an API which Aviatrix has and have them do the orchestration for us. So that we don't have to do it four times. >> How important is architecture in the progression? Is it do you guys get thrown in the deep end, to solve these problems, are you guys zooming out and looking at it? How are you guys looking at the architecture? >> You can't get off the ground if you don't have the network there. So all of those, we've gone through similar evolutions, we're on our fourth or fifth evolution. I think about what we started off with Amazon without Direct Connect Gateway, without Transit Gateway, without a lot of the things that are available today, kind of the 80, 20 that Steve was talking about. Just because it wasn't there doesn't mean we didn't need it. So we needed to figure out a way to do it, we couldn't say, "Oh, you need to come back to the network team in a year, and maybe Amazon will have a solution for it." We need to do it now and evolve later and maybe optimize or change the way you're doing things in the future. But don't sit around and wait, you can't. >> I'd love to have you guys each individually answer this question for the live streams that comes up a lot. A lot of cloud architects out in the community, what should they be thinking about the folks that are coming into this proactively and, or realizing the business benefits are there? What advice would you guys give them on architecture? What should be they'd be thinking about, and what are some guiding principles you could share? >> So I would start with looking at an architecture model that can spread and give consistency to the different cloud vendors that you will absolutely have to support. Cloud vendors tend to want to pull you into using their native tool set, and that's good if only it was realistic to talk about only one cloud. But because it doesn't, it's super important to talk about, and have a conversation with the business and with your technology teams about a consistent model. >> And how do I do my day one work so that I'm not spending 80% of my time troubleshooting or managing my network? Because if I'm doing that, then I'm missing out on ways that I can make improvements or embrace new technologies. So it's really important early on to figure out, how do I make this as low maintenance as possible so that I can focus on the things that the team really should be focusing on? >> Bobby, your advice there, architecture. >> I don't know what else I can add to that. Simplicity of operations is key. >> So the holistic view of day two operations you mentioned, let's can jump in day one as you're getting stuff set up, day two is your life after. This is kind of of what you're getting at, David. So what does that look like? What are you envisioning as you look at that 20-mile stair, out post multi-cloud world? What are some of the things that you want in the day two operations? >> Infrastructure as code is really important to us. So how do we design it so that we can start fit start making network changes and fitting them into a release pipeline and start looking at it like that, rather than somebody logging into a router CLI and troubleshooting things in an ad hoc nature? So, moving more towards a dev-ops model. >> You guys, anything to add on that day two? >> Yeah, I would love to add something. In terms of day two operations you can either sort of ignore the day two operations for a little while, where you get your feet wet, or you can start approaching it from the beginning. The fact is that the cloud-native tools don't have a lot of maturity in that space and when you run into an issue, you're going to end up having a bad day, going through millions and millions of logs just to try to understand what's going on. That's something that the industry just now is beginning to realize it's such a big gap. >> I think that's key because for us, we're moving to more of an event-driven or operations. In the past, monitoring got the job done. It's impossible to monitor something that is not there when the event happens. So the event-driven application and then detection is important. >> Gardner is all about the cloud-native wave coming into networking. That's going to be a serious thing. I want to get your guys' perspective, I know you have each different views of how you come into the journey and how you're executing. And I always say the beauty's in the eye of the beholder and that applies to how the network's laid out. So, Bobby, you guys do a lot of high-performance encryption, both on AWS and Azure. That's a unique thing for you. How are you seeing that impact with multi-cloud? >> That's a new requirement for us too, where we have an increment to encrypt. And then if you ever get the question, should I encrypt, should I not encrypt? The answer is always yes. You should encrypt when you can encrypt. For our perspective, we need to migrate a bunch of data from our data centers. We have some huge data centers, and getting that data to the cloud is a timely expense in some cases. So we have been mandated, we have to encrypt everything, leave in the data center. So we're looking at using the Aviatrix insane mode appliances to be able to encrypt 10, 20 gigabits of data as it moves to the cloud itself. >> David, you're using Terraform, you've got FireNet, you've got a lot of complexity in your network. What do you guys look at the future for your environment? >> So many exciting that we're working on now as FireNet. So for our security team that obviously have a lot of knowledge base around Palo Alto, and with our commitments to our clients, it's not very easy to shift your security model to a specific cloud vendor. So there's a lot of SOC 2 compliance and things like that were being able to take some of what you've worked on for years on-prem and put it in the cloud and have the same type of assurance that things are going to work and be secure in the same way that they are on-prem, helps make that journey into the cloud a lot easier. >> And Louis, you guys got scripting, you got a lot of things going on. What's your unique angle on this? >> Absolutely. So for disclosure, I'm not an Aviatrix customer yet. (laughs) >> It's okay, we want to hear the truth, so that's good. Tell us, what are you thinking about? What's on your mind? >> When you talk about implementing a tool like this, it's really just really important to talk about automation focus on value. When you talk about things like encryption and things like so you're encrypting tunnels and encrypting the path, and those things should be second nature really. When you look at building those back-ends and managing them with your team, it becomes really painful. So tools like Aviatrix that add a lot automation it's out of sight, out of mind. You can focus on the value, and you don't have to focus on this. >> So I got to ask you guys. I see Aviatrix was here, they're supplier to this sector, but you guys are customers. Everyone's pitching your stuff, people knock on you, "Buy my stuff." How do you guys have that conversation with the suppliers, like the cloud vendors and other folks? What's it like? We're API all the way? You've got to support this? What are some of your requirements? How do you talk to and evaluate people that walk in and want to knock on your door and pitch you something? What's the conversation like? >> It's definitely API driven. We definitely look at the API structure that the vendors provide before we select anything. That is always first of mine and also, what problem are we really trying to solve? Usually, people try to sell or try to give us something that isn't really valuable, like implementing a Cisco solution on the cloud doesn't really add a lot of value, that's where we go. >> David, what's your conversation like with suppliers? Do you have a certain new way to do things? As it becomes more agile, essentially networking, and getting more dynamic, what are some of the conversations with either in commits or new vendors that you're having? What do you require? >> Ease of use is definitely high up there. We've had some vendors come in and say, "Hey, when you go to set this up, "we're going to want to send somebody on-site." And they're going to sit with you for a day to configure it. And that's a red flag. Well, wait a minute, do we really, if one of my really talented engineers can't figure it out on his own, what's going on there and why is that? Having some ease of use and the team being comfortable with it and understanding it is really important. >> Bobby, how about you? Old days was, do a bake-off and the winner takes all. Is it like that anymore? What's evolving? Bake-off last year for but still win. But that's different now because now when you get the product, you can install the product in AWS and Azure, have it up running in a matter of minutes. So the key is that can you be operational within hours or days instead of weeks? But do we also have the flexibility to customize it, to meet your needs? Because you don't want to be put into a box with the other customers when you have needs that are past their needs. >> I can almost see the challenge that you guys are living, where you've got the cloud immediate value, depending how you can roll up any solutions, but then you might have other needs. So you've got to be careful not to buy into stuff that's not shipping. So you're trying to be proactive and at the same time, deal with what you got. How do you guys see that evolving? Because multi-cloud to me is definitely relevant, but it's not yet clear how to implement across. How do you guys look at this baked versus future solutions coming? How do you balance that? >> Again, so right now, we're taking the ad hoc approach and experimenting what the different concepts of cloud are and really leveraging the native constructs of each cloud. But there's a breaking point for sure. You don't get to scale this like someone said, and you have to focus on being able to deliver, developers their sandbox or their play area for the things that they're trying to build quickly. And the only way to do that is with some consistent orchestration layer that allows you to-- >> So you expect a lot more stuff to becoming pretty quickly in that area. >> I do expect things to start maturing quite quickly this year. >> And you guys see similar trend, new stuff coming fast? >> Yeah. Probably the biggest challenge we've got now is being able to segment within the network, being able to provide segmentation between production, non-production workloads, even businesses, because we support many businesses worldwide and isolation between those is a key criteria there. So the ability to identify and quickly isolate those workloads is key. So the CIOs that are watching are saying, "Hey, take that hill, do multi-cloud." And then you have the bottoms up organization, "Pause, you're like off a little bit, it's not how it works." What is the reality in terms of implementing as fast as possible? Because the business benefits are clear, but it's not always clear on the technology how to move that fast. What are some of the barriers, what are the blockers, what are the enablers? >> I think the reality is that you may not think you're multi-cloud, but your business is. So I think the biggest barrier there is understanding what the requirements are and how best to meet those requirements in a secure manner. Because you need to make sure that things are working from a latency perspective that things work the way they did and get out of the mind shift that it was a tier-three application and the data center, it doesn't have to be a tier-three application in the cloud. So, lift and shift is not the way to go. >> Scale is a big part of what I see is the competitive advantage by these clouds and used to be proprietary network stacks in the old days, and then open systems came, that was a good thing. But as cloud has become bigger, there's an inherent lock-in there with the scale. How do you guys keep the choice open? How are you guys thinking about interoperability? What are some of the conversations that you guys are having around those key concepts? >> When we look at from a networking perspective, it's really key for you to just enable all the class to be able to communicate between them. Developers will find a way to use the cloud that best suits their business needs. And like you said, it's whether you're in denial or not, of the multi-cloud fact that your company is in already that's it becomes really important for you to move quickly. >> Yeah. And a lot of it also hinges on how well is the provider embracing what that specific cloud is doing? So, are they swimming with Amazon or Azure and just helping facilitate things, and they're doing the heavy lifting API work for you? Or are they swimming upstream and they're trying to hack it all together in messy way? And so that helps you stay out of the lock-in because there, if they're using Amazon native tools to help you get where you need to be, it's not like Amazon is going to release something in the future that completely makes you have designed yourself into a corner. So the closer, more than cloud-native they are, the more, the easier it is to deploy. >> Which also need to be aligned in such a way that you can take advantage of those cloud-native technologies. Will it make sense? TGW is a gamechanger in terms of cost and performance. So to completely ignore that, would be wrong. But if you needed to have encryption, TGW is not encrypted, so you need to have some type of Gateway to do the VPN encryption. So, the Aviatrix tool will give you the beauty of both worlds. You can use TGW or the Gateway. Real quick on the last minute we have, I want to just get a quick feedback from you guys. I hear a lot of people say to me, "Hey, pick the best cloud for the workload you got, then figure out multicloud behind the scenes." Do you guys agree with that? Do I go more to one cloud across the whole company or this workload works great on AWS, that workload works great on this. From a cloud standpoint, do you agree with that premise, and then when is multi-cloud stitching altogether? >> From an application perspective, it can be per workload, but it can also be an economical decision, certain enterprise contracts will pull you in one direction to add value, but the network problem is still the same. >> It doesn't go away. >> You don't want to be trying to fit a square into a round hall. If it works better on that cloud provider, then it's our job to make sure that service is there and people can use it. >> I agree, you just need to stay ahead of the game, make sure that the network infrastructure is there, security is available and is multi-cloud capable. >> At the end of the day, you guys are just validating that it's the networking game now. Cloud storage, compute check, networking is where the action is. Awesome. Thanks for your insights guys, appreciate you coming on the panel. Appreciate it, thanks. (upbeat music) >> John: Our next customer panel, got great another set of cloud network architects, Justin Smith with Zuora, Justin Brodley with EllieMae and Amit Utreja with Coupa. Welcome to stage. (audience applauds) (upbeat music) >> All right, thank you. >> How are ya? >> Thank you. Thank You. >> Hey Amit. How are ya? >> Did he say it right? >> Yeah. >> Okay he's got all the cliff notes from the last session, welcome back. Rinse and repeat. We're going to go into the hood a little bit. And I think they nailed what we've been reporting, we've been having this conversation around, networking is where the action is because that's at the end of the day you got to move packet from A to B and you got workloads exchanging data. So it's really killer. So let's get started. Amit, what are you seeing as the journey of multicloud as you go under the hood and say, "Okay, I got to implement this. "I have to engineer the network, "make it enabling, make it programmable, "make it interoperable across clouds." That almost sounds impossible to me. What's your take? >> Yeah, it seems impossible but if you are running an organization which is running infrastructure as a code it is easily doable. Like you can use tools out there that's available today, you can use third party products that can do a better job. But put your architecture first, don't wait. Architecture may not be perfect, put the best architecture that's available today and be agile, to iterate and make improvements over the time. >> We get to Justin's over here, so I have to be careful when I point a question to Justin, they both have the answer. Okay, journeys, what's the journey been like? Is there phases, We heard that from Gardner, people come into multicloud and cloud native networking from different perspectives? What's your take on the journey, Justin? >> Yeah, from our perspective, we started out very much focused on one cloud and as we've started doing acquisitions, we started doing new products to the market, the need for multicloud becomes very apparent, very quickly for us. And so having an architecture that we can plug and play into and be able to add and change things as it changes is super important for what we're doing in the space. >> Justin, your journey. >> Yes. For us, we were very ad hoc oriented and the idea is that we were reinventing all the time, trying to move into these new things and coming up with great new ideas. And so rather than it being some iterative approach with our deployments that became a number of different deployments. And so we shifted that toward and the network has been a real enabler of this. There's one network and it touches whatever cloud we want it to touch, and it touches the data centers that we need it to touch, and it touches the customers that we needed to touch. Our job is to make sure that the services that are available in one of those locations are available in all of the locations. So the idea is not that we need to come up with this new solution every time, it's that we're just iterating on what we've already decided to do. >> Before we get the architecture section, I want to ask you guys a question? I'm a big fan of let the app developers have infrastructure as code, so check. But having the right cloud run that workload, I'm a big fan of that, if it works great. But we just heard from the other panel, you can't change the network. So I want to get your thoughts, what is cloud native networking? And is that the engine really, that's the enabler for this multicloud trend? What's you guys take? We'll start with Amit, what do you think about that? >> Yeah, so you're going to have workloads running in different clouds and the workloads would have affinity to one cloud or other. But how you expose that it's a matter of how you are going to build your networks. How you're going to run security. How you're going to do egress, ingress out of it so -- >> You said networking is the big problem to solve. >> Yes. >> What's the solution? What's the key pain points and problem statement? >> The key pain point for most companies is how do you take your traditionally on premise network and then blow it out to the cloud in a way that makes sense. You have IP conflicts, you have IP space, you have public IPs on premise as well as in the cloud. And how do you kind of make sense of all of that? And I think that's where tools like Aviatrix make a lot of sense in that space. >> From our side, it's really simple. It's a latency, it's bandwidth and availability. These don't change whether we're talking about cloud or data center, or even corporate IT networking. So our job when these all of these things are simplified into like, S3, for instance and our developers want to use those. We have to be able to deliver that and for a particular group or another group that wants to use just just GCP resources. We have to support these requirements and these wants, as opposed to saying, "Hey, that's not a good idea." No, our job is to enable them not to disable them. >> Do you guys think infrastructure is code? Which I love that, I think that's the future in this. We even saw that with DevOps. But as you start getting the networking, is it getting down to the network portion where its network as code? Because storage and compute working really well, we're seeing all Kubernetes on service mesh trend. Network has code, reality is it there? Is it still got work to do? >> It's absolutely there, you mentioned net DevOps and it's very real. In Coupa we build our networks through terraform and not only just terraform, build an API so that we can consistently build VNets and VPC all across in the same way. >> So you guys are doing it? >> Yup. And even security groups. And then on top and Aviatrix comes in, we can peer the networks bridge all the different regions through code. >> Same with you guys. >> Yeah. >> What do you think about this? >> Everything we deploy is done with automation and then we also run things like Lambda on top to make changes in real time, we don't make manual changes on our network. In the data center, funny enough, it's still manual but the cloud has enabled us to move into this automation mindset. And all my guys, that's what they focus on is bringing, now what they're doing in the cloud into the data center, which is kind of opposite of what it should be or what it used to be. >> It's full DevOps then? >> Yes. >> For us, it was similar on-prem is still somewhat very manual, although we're moving more and more to ninja and terraform type concepts. But everything in the production environment is code, confirmation terraform code and now coming into the data center same (mumbles). >> So I just wanted to jump in Justin Smith, one of the comment that you made, because it's something that we always talk about a lot is that the center of gravity of architecture used to be an on-prem and now it's shifted in the cloud. And once you have your strategic architecture, what do you do? You push that everywhere. So what you used to see at the beginning of cloud was pushing the architecture on-prem into cloud. Now, I want to pick up on what you said, do you others agree that the center of gravity is here, I'm now pushing what I do in the cloud back into on-prem? And then so first that and then also in the journey, where are you at from zero to 100 of actually in the journey to cloud? Are you 50% there, are you 10%? Are you evacuating data centers next year? Where are you guys at? >> Yeah, so there's there's two types of gravity that you typically are dealing with, with the migration. First is data, gravity and your data set, and where that data lives. And then the second is the network platform that wraps all that together. In our case, the data gravity solely mostly on-prem but our network is now extending out to the app tier, it's going to be in cloud. Eventually, that data, gravity will also move to cloud as we start getting more sophisticated but in our journey, we're about halfway there. About halfway through the process, we're taking a handle of lift and shift and -- >> Steve: And when did that start? >> We started about three years ago. >> Okay, okay. >> Well for Coupa it's a very different story. It started from a garage and 100% on the cloud. So it's a business plan management platform, software as a service run 100% on the cloud. >> That was was like 10 years ago, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> You guys are riding the wave of the architecture. Justin I want to ask you, Zuora, you guys mentioned DevOps. Obviously, we saw the huge observability wave, which essentially network management for the cloud, in my opinion. It's more dynamic, but this is about visibility. We heard from the last panel you don't know what's being turned on or turned off from a services standpoint, at any given time. How is all this playing out when you start getting into the DevOps down (mumbles)? >> This is the big challenge for all of us is visibility. When you talk transport within a cloud, very interestingly we we have moved from having a backbone that we bought, that we own, that would be data center connectivity. Zuora's a subscription billing company, so we want to support the subscription mindset. So rather than going and buying circuits and having to wait three months to install and then coming up with some way to get things connected and resiliency and redundancy. My backbone is in the cloud. I use the cloud providers interconnections between regions to transport data across and so if you do that with their native solutions, you do lose visibility. There are areas in that that you don't get, which is why controllers and having some type of management plane is a requirement for us to do what we're supposed to do and provide consistency while doing it. >> Great conversation. I loved what you said earlier latency, bandwidth, I think availability were your top three things. Guys SLA, just do ping times between clouds it's like, you don't know what you're getting for round trip time. This becomes a huge kind of risk management, black hole, whatever you want to call it, blind spot. How are you guys looking at the interconnect between clouds? Because I can see that working from ground to cloud on per cloud but when you start dealing with multiclouds workloads, SLAs will be all over the map, won't they just inherently. How do you guys view that? >> Yeah, I think we talked about workload and we know that the workloads are going to be different in different clouds, but they're going to be calling each other. So it's very important to have that visibility, that you can see how data is flowing at what latency and what availability is there and our authority needs to operate on that. >> So use the software dashboard, look at the times and look at the latency -- >> In the old days, Strongswan Openswan you try to figure it out, in the new days you have to figure out. >> Justin, what's your answer to that because you're in the middle of it? >> Yeah, I think the key thing there is that we have to plan for that failure, we have to plan for that latency in our applications. If certain things are tracking in your SLI, certain things are planning for and you loosely coupled these services in a much more microservices approach. So you actually can handle that kind of failure or that type of unknown latency and unfortunately, the cloud has made us much better at handling exceptions in a much better way. >> You guys are all great examples of cloud native from day one. When did you have the tipping point moment or the epiphany of saying a multiclouds real, I can't ignore it, I got to factor that into all my design principles and everything you're doing? Was there a moment or was it from day one? >> There are two reasons, one was the business. So in business, there were some affinity to not be in one cloud or to be in one cloud and that drove from the business side. So as a cloud architect our responsibility was to support that business. Another is the technology, some things are really running better in, like if you're running Dotnet workload or your going to run machine learning or AI so that you would have that preference of one cloud over other. >> Guys, any thoughts on that? >> That was the bill that we got from AWS. That's what drives a lot of these conversations is the financial viability of what you're building on top of. This failure domain idea which is fairly interesting. How do I solve our guarantee against a failure domain? You have methodologies with back end direct connects or interconnect with GCP. All of these ideas are something that you have to take into account but that transport layer should not matter to whoever we're building this for. Our job is to deliver the frames and the packets, what that flows across, how you get there? We want to make that seamless. And so whether it's a public internet API call or it's a back end connectivity through direct connect, it doesn't matter. It just has to meet a contract that you've signed with your application, folks. >> Yeah, that's the availability piece. >> Justin, your thoughts on that, any comment on that? >> So actually multiclouds become something much more recent in the last six to eight months, I'd say. We always kind of had a very much an attitude of like moving to Amazon from our private cloud is hard enough, why complicate it further? But the realities of the business and as we start seeing, improvements in Google and Azure and different technology spaces, the need for multicloud becomes much more important. As well as our acquisition strategies are matured, we're seeing that companies that used to be on premise that we typically acquire are now very much already on a cloud. And if they're on a cloud, I need to plug them into our ecosystem. And so that's really changed our multicloud story in a big way. >> I'd love to get your thoughts on the clouds versus the clouds, because you compare them Amazon's got more features, they're rich with features. Obviously, the bills are high to people using them. But Google's got a great network, Google's networks pretty damn good And then you got Azure. What's the difference between the clouds? Where do they fall? Where do they peak in certain areas better than others? What are the characteristics, which makes one cloud better? Do they have a unique feature that makes Azure better than Google and vice versa? What do you guys think about the different clouds? >> Yeah, to my experience, I think the approach is different in many places. Google has a different approach very DevOps friendly and you can run your workloads with your network can span regions. But our application ready to accept that. Amazon is evolving. I remember 10 years back Amazon's network was a flat network, we would be launching servers in 10.0.0/8, right. And then the VPCs came out. >> We'll have to translate that to English for the live feed. Not good. So the VPCs concept came out, multi account came out, so they are evolving. Azure had a late start but because they have a late start, they saw the pattern and they have some mature setup on the network. >> They've got around the same price too. >> I think they're all trying to say they're equal in their own ways. I think they all have very specific design philosophies that allow them to be successful in different ways and you have to kind of keep that in mind as you architect your own solution. For example, Amazon has a very regional affinity, they don't like to go cross region in their architecture. Whereas Google is very much it's a global network, we're going to think about as a global solution. I think Google also has advantage that it's third to market and so has seen what Azure did wrong, it seeing what AWS did wrong and it's made those improvements and I think that's one of their big advantage. >> They got great scale too. Justin thoughts on the cloud. >> So yeah, Amazon built from the system up and Google built from the network down. So their ideas and approaches are from a global versus original, I agree with you completely that is the big number one thing. But the if you look at it from the outset, interestingly, the inability or the ability for Amazon to limit layer to broadcasting and what that really means from a VPC perspective, changed all the routing protocols you can use. All the things that we had built inside of a data center to provide resiliency and make things seamless to users, all of that disappeared. And so because we had to accept that at the VPC level, now we have to accept that at the WAN level. Google's done a better job of being able to overcome those things and provide those traditional network facilities to us. >> Just a great panel, we could go all day here, it's awesome. So I heard, we will get to the cloud native naive questions. So kind of think about what's naive and what's cloud, I'll ask that next but I got to ask you I had a conversation with a friend he's like, "WAN is the new LAN?" So if you think about what the LAN was at a data center, WAN is the new LAN, cause you keep talking about the cloud impact? So that means ST-WAN, the old ST-WAN kind of changing. There's a new LAN. How do you guys look at that? Because if you think about it, what LANs were for inside a premises was all about networking, high speed. But now when you take the WAN and make it, essentially a LAN, do you agree with that? And how do you view this trend? Is it good or bad or is it ugly? What you guys take on this? >> Yeah, I think it's a thing that you have to work with your application architects. So if you are managing networks and if you're a server engineer, you need to work with them to expose the unreliability that it would bring in. So the application has to handle a lot of the difference in the latencies and the reliability has to be worked through the application there. >> LAN, WAN, same concept is that BS? Can you give some insight? >> I think we've been talking about for a long time the erosion of the edge. And so is this just a continuation of that journey we've been on for last several years. As we get more and more cloud native and we talked about API's, the ability to lock my data in place and not be able to access it really goes away. And so I think this is just continuation. I think it has challenges. We start talking about WAN scale versus LAN scale, the tooling doesn't work the same, the scale of that tooling is much larger. and the need to automation is much, much higher in a WAN than it wasn't a LAN. That's why you're seeing so much infrastructure as code. >> Yeah. So for me, I'll go back again to this, it's bandwidth and its latency that define those two LAN versus WAN. But the other thing that's comes up more and more with cloud deployments is whereas our security boundary and where can I extend this secure aware appliance or set of rules to protect what's inside of it. So for us, we're able to deliver VRFs or route forwarding tables for different segments wherever we're at in the world. And so they're trusted to talk to each other but if they're going to go to someplace that's outside of their network, then they have to cross the security boundary, where we enforce policy very heavily. So for me, there's it's not just LAN, WAN it's how does environment get to environment more importantly. >> That's a great point in security, we haven't talked it yet but that's got to be baked in from the beginning, this architecture. Thoughts on security, how you guys are dealing with it? >> Yeah, start from the base, have app to app security built in. Have TLS, have encryption on the data at transit, data at rest. But as you bring the application to the cloud and they're going to go multicloud, talking to over the internet, in some places, well have app to app security. >> Our principles day, security is day zero every day. And so we always build it into our design, build into our architecture, into our applications. It's encrypt everything, it's TLS everywhere. It's make sure that that data is secure at all times. >> Yeah, one of the cool trends at RSA, just as a side note was the data in use encryption piece, which is homomorphic stuff was interesting. Alright guys, final question. We heard on the earlier panel was also trending at re:Invent, we think the T out of cloud native, it spells cloud naive. They have shirts now, Aviatrix kind of got this trend going. What does that mean to be naive? To your peers out there watching the live stream and also the suppliers that are trying to supply you guys with technology and services, what's naive look like and what's native look like? When is someone naive about implementing all this stuff? >> So for me, because we are in 100% cloud, for us its main thing is ready for the change. And you will find new building blocks coming in and the network design will evolve and change. So don't be naive and think that it's static, evolve with the change. >> I think the biggest naivety that people have is that well, I've been doing it this way for 20 years, I've been successful, it's going to be successful in cloud. The reality is that's not the case. You got to think some of the stuff a little bit differently and you need to think about it early enough, so that you can become cloud native and really enable your business on cloud. >> Yeah for me it's being open minded. Our industry, the network industry as a whole, has been very much I'm smarter than everybody else and we're going to tell everybody how it's going to be done. And we fell into a lull when it came to producing infrastructure and so embracing this idea that we can deploy a new solution or a new environment in minutes as opposed to hours, or weeks or months in some cases, is really important in and so >> - >> It's naive being closed minded, native being open minded. >> Exactly. For me that was a transformative kind of where I was looking to solve problems in a cloud way as opposed to looking to solve problems in this traditional old school way. >> All right, I know we're at a time but I got to asked one more question, so you guys so good. Give me a quick answer. What's the BS language when you, the BS meter goes off when people talk to you about solutions? What's the kind of jargon that you hear, that's the BS meter going off? What are people talking about that in your opinion you here you go, "That's total BS?" What triggers you? >> So that I have two lines out of movies if I say them without actually thinking them. It's like 1.21 gigawatts are you out of your mind from Back to the Future right? Somebody's giving you all these wiz bang things. And then Martin Maul and Michael Keaton in Mr Mom when he goes to 220, 221, whatever it takes. >> Yeah. >> Those two right there, if those go off in my mind where somebody's talking to me, I know they're full of baloney. >> So a lot of speeds and feeds, a lot of speeds and feeds a lot of -- >> Just data. Instead of talking about what you're actually doing and solutioning for. You're talking about, "Well, it does this this this." Okay to 220, 221. (laughter) >> Justin, what's your take? >> Anytime I start seeing the cloud vendors start benchmarking against each other. Your workload is your workload, you need to benchmark yourself. Don't listen to the marketing on that, that's just awful. >> Amit, what triggers you in the BS meter? >> I think if somebody explains to you are not simple, they cannot explain you in simplicity, then it's all bull shit. >> (laughs) That's a good one. Alright guys, thanks for the great insight, great panel. How about a round of applause to practitioners. (audience applauds) (upbeat music) >> John: Okay, welcome back to Altitude 2020 for the digital event for the live feed. Welcome back, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE with Steve Mullaney, CEO Aviatrix. For the next panel from Global System Integrated, the folks who are building and working with folks on their journey to multicloud and cloud-native networking. We've got a great panel, George Buckman with DXC and Derrick Monahan with WWT, welcome to the stage. (Audience applauds) >> Hey >> Thank you >> Groovy spot >> All right (upbeat music) >> Okay, you guys are the ones out there advising, building, and getting down and dirty with multicloud and cloud-native networking, we just heard from the customer panel. You can see the diversity of where people come in to the journey of cloud, it kind of depends upon where you are, but the trends are all clear, cloud-native networking, DevOps, up and down the stack, this has been the main engine. What's your guys' take of this journey to multicloud? What do you guys think? >> Yeah, it's critical, I mean we're seeing all of our enterprise customers enter into this, they've been through the migrations of the easy stuff, ya know? Now they're trying to optimize and get more improvements, so now the tough stuff's coming on, right? They need their data processing near where their data is. So that's driving them to a multicloud environment. >> Yeah, we've heard some of the Edge stuff, I mean, you guys are-- >> Exactly. >> You've seen this movie before, but now it's a whole new ballgame, what's your take? Yeah, so, I'll give you a hint, our practice is not called the cloud practice, it's the multicloud practice, and so if that gives you a hint of how we approach things. It's very consultative. And so when we look at what the trends are, like a year ago. About a year ago we were having conversations with customers, "Let's build a data center in the cloud. Let's put some VPCs, let's throw some firewalls, let's put some DNS and other infrastructure out there and let's hope it works." This isn't a science project. What we're starting to see is customers are starting to have more of a vision, we're helping with that consultative nature, but it's totally based on the business. And you've got to start understanding how lines of business are using the apps and then we evolve into the next journey which is a foundational approach to-- >> What are some of the problems some of your customers are solving when they come to you? What are the top things that are on their mind, obviously the ease of use, agility, all that stuff, what specifically are they digging into? >> Yeah, so complexity, I think when you look at a multicloud approach, in my view is, network requirements are complex. You know, I think they are, but I think the approach can be, "Let's simplify that." So one thing that we try to do, and this is how we talk to customers is, just like you simplify in Aviatrix, simplifies the automation orchestration of cloud networking, we're trying to simplify the design, the plan, and implementation of the infrastructure across multiple workloads, across multiple platforms. And so the way we do it, is we sit down, we look at not just use cases, not just the questions we commonly anticipate, we actually build out, based on the business and function requirements, we build out a strategy and then create a set of documents, and guess what? We actually build it in a lab, and that lab that we platform rebuilt, proves out this reference architectural actually works. >> Absolutely, we implement similar concepts. I mean, they're proven practices, they work, right? >> But George, you mentioned that the hard part's now upon us, are you referring to networking, what specifically were you getting at there when you said, "The easy part's done, now the hard part?" >> So for the enterprises themselves, migrating their more critical apps or more difficult apps into the environments, ya know, we've just scratched the surface, I believe, on what enterprises are doing to move into the cloud, to optimize their environments, to take advantage of the scale and speed to deployment and to be able to better enable their businesses. So they're just now really starting to-- >> So do you guys see what I talked about? I mean, in terms of that Cambrian explosion, I mean, you're both monster system integrators with top fortune enterprise customers, you know, really rely on you for guidance and consulting and so forth, and deploy their networks. Is that something that you've seen? I mean, does that resonate? Did you notice a year and a half ago all of a sudden the importance of cloud for enterprise shoot up? >> Yeah, I mean, we're seeing it now. >> Okay. >> In our internal environment as well, ya know, we're a huge company ourselves, customer zero, our internal IT, so, we're experiencing that internally and every one of our other customers as well. >> So I have another question and I don't know the answer to this, and a lawyer never asks a question that you don't know the answer to, but I'm going to ask it anyway. DXC and WWT, massive system integrators, why Aviatrix? >> Great question, Steve, so I think the way we approach things, I think we have a similar vision, a similar strategy, how you approach things, how we approach things, at World Wide Technology. Number one, we want a simplify the complexity. And so that's your number one priority. Let's take the networking, let's simplify it, and I think part of the other point I'm making is we see this automation piece as not just an after thought anymore. If you look at what customers care about, visibility and automation is probably at the top three, maybe the third on the list, and I think that's where we see the value. I think the partnership that we're building and what I get excited about is not just putting yours and our lab and showing customers how it works, it's co-developing a solution with you. Figuring out, "Hey, how can we make this better?" >> Right >> Visibility is a huge thing, just in security alone, network everything's around visibility. What automation do you see happening, in terms of progression, order of operations, if you will? What's the low hanging fruit? What are people working on now? What are some of the aspirational goals around when you start thinking about multicloud and automation? >> So I wanted to get back to his question. >> Answer that question. >> I wanted to answer your question, you know, what led us there and why Aviatrix. You know, in working some large internal IT projects, and looking at how we were going to integrate those solutions, you know, we like to build everything with recipes. Network is probably playing catch-up in the DevOps world but with a DevOps mindset, looking to speed to deploy, support, all those things, so when you start building your recipe, you take a little of this, a little of that, and you mix it all together, well, when you look around, you say, "Wow, look, there's this big bag of Aviatrix. "Let me plop that in. That solves a big part "of my problems that I had, the speed to integrate, "the speed to deploy, and the operational views "that I need to run this." So that was what led me to-- >> John: So how about reference architectures? >> Yeah, absolutely, so, you know, they came with a full slate of reference architectures already out there and ready to go that fit our needs, so it was very easy for us to integrate those into our recipes. >> What do you guys think about all the multi-vendor inter-operability conversations that have been going on? Choice has been a big part of multicloud in terms of, you know, customers want choice, they'll put a workload in the cloud if it works, but this notion of choice and interoperability has become a big conversation. >> It is, and I think that our approach, and that's the way we talk to customers is, "Let's speed and de-risk that decision making process, "and how do we do that?" Because interoperability is key. You're not just putting, it's not just a single vendor, we're talking, you know, many many vendors, I mean think about the average number of cloud applications a customer uses, a business, an enterprise business today, you know, it's above 30, it's skyrocketing and so what we do, and we look at it from an interoperability approach is, "How do things inter-operate?" We test it out, we validate it, we build a reference architecture that says, "These are the critical design elements, "now let's build one with Aviatrix "and show how this works with Aviatrix." And I think the important part there, though, is the automation piece that we add to it and visibility. So I think the visibility is what I see lacking across industry today. >> In cloud-native that's been a big topic. >> Yep >> Okay, in terms of Aviatrix, as you guys see them coming in, they're one of the ones that are emerging and the new brands emerging with multicloud, you've still got the old guard encumbered with huge footprints. How are customers dealing with that kind of component in dealing with both of them? >> Yeah, I mean, we have customers that are ingrained with a particular vendor and you know, we have partnerships with many vendors. So our objective is to provide the solution that meets that client. >> John: And they all want multi-vendor, they all want interoperability. >> Correct. >> All right, so I got to ask you guys a question while we were defining Day-2 operations. What does that mean? You guys are looking at the big business and technical components of architecture, what does Day-2 operations mean, what's the definition of that? >> Yeah, so I think from our perspective, with my experience, we, you know, Day-2 operations, whether it's not just the orchestration piece in setting up and let it automate and have some, you know, change control, you're looking at this from a Day-2 perspective, "How do I support this ongoing "and make it easy to make changes as we evolve?" The cloud is very dynamic. The nature of how fast it's expanding, the number features is astonishing. Trying to keep up to date with the number of just networking capabilities and services that are added. So I think Day-2 operations starts with a fundamental understanding of building out supporting a customer's environments, and making the automation piece easy from a distance, I think. >> Yeah and, you know, taking that to the next level of being able to enable customers to have catalog items that they can pick and choose, "Hey I need this network connectivity "from this cloud location back to this on-prem." And being able to have that automated and provisioned just simply by ordering it. >> For the folks watching out there, guys, take a minute to explain as you guys are in the trenches doing a lot of good work. What are some of the engagements that you guys get into? How does that progress? What happens there, they call you up and say, "Hey I need some multicloud," or you're already in there? I mean, take us through how someone can engage to use a global SI, they come in and make this thing happen, what's the typical engagement look like? >> Derrick: Yeah, so from our perspective, we typically have a series of workshops in the methodology that we kind of go along the journey. Number one, we have a foundational approach. And I don't mean foundation meaning the network foundation, that's a very critical element, we got to factor in security and we got to factor in automation. So when you think about foundation, we do a workshop that starts with education. A lot of times we'll go in and we'll just educate the customer, what is VPC sharing? You know, what is a private link in Azure? How does that impact your business? We have customers that want to share services out in an ecosystem with other customers and partners. Well there's many ways to accomplish that. Our goal is to understand those requirements and then build that strategy with them. >> Thoughts George, on-- >> Yeah, I mean, I'm one of the guys that's down in the weeds making things happen, so I'm not the guy on the front line interfacing with the customers every day. But we have a similar approach. We have a consulting practice that will go out and apply their practices to see what those-- >> And when do you parachute in? >> Yeah, when I parachute in is, I'm on the back end working with our offering development leads for networking, so we understand and are seeing what customers are asking for and we're on the back end developing the solutions that integrate with our own offerings as well as enable other customers to just deploy quickly to meet their connectivity needs. So the patterns are similar. >> Right, final question for you guys, I want to ask you to paint a picture of what success looks like. You don't have to name customers, you don't have to get in and reveal who they are, but what does success look like in multicloud as you paint a picture for the folks here and watching on the live stream, if someone says, "Hey I want to be multicloud, I got to to have my operations Agile, I want full DevOps, I want programmability and security built in from Day-zero." What does success look like? >> Yeah, I think success looks like this, so when you're building out a network, the network is a harder thing to change than some other aspects of cloud. So what we think is, even if you're thinking about that second cloud, which we have most of our customers are on two public clouds today, they might be dabbling in it. As you build that network foundation, that architecture, that takes in to consideration where you're going, and so once we start building that reference architecture out that shows, this is how to approach it from a multicloud perspective, not a single cloud, and let's not forget our branches, let's not forget our data centers, let's not forget how all this connects together because that's how we define multicloud, it's not just in the cloud, it's on-prem and it's off-prem. And so collectively, I think the key is also is that we provide them an HLD. You got to start with a high level design that can be tweaked as you go through the journey but you got to give it a solid structural foundation, and that networking which we think, most customers think as not the network engineers, but as an after thought. We want to make that the most critical element before you start the journey. >> George, from your seat, how does success look for you? >> So, you know it starts out on these journeys, often start out people not even thinking about what is going to happen, what their network needs are when they start their migration journey to the cloud. So I want, success to me looks like them being able to end up not worrying about what's happening in the network when they move to the cloud. >> Steve: Good point. >> Guys, great insight, thanks for coming on and sharing. How about a round of applause for the global system integrators? (Audience applauds) (Upbeat music) >> The next panel is the AVH certified engineers, also known as ACEs. This is the folks that are certified, they're engineering, they're building these new solutions. Please welcome Toby Foss from Informatica, Stacey Lanier from Teradata, and Jennifer Reed with Viqtor Davis to the stage. (upbeat music) (audience cheering) (panelists exchanging pleasantries) >> You got to show up. Where's your jacket Toby? (laughing) You get it done. I was just going to rib you guys and say, where's your jackets, and Jen's got the jacket on. Okay, good. >> Love the Aviatrix, ACEs Pilot gear there above the Clouds. Going to new heights. >> That's right. >> So guys Aviatrix aces, I love the name, think it's great, certified. This is all about getting things engineered. So there's a level of certification, I want to get into that. But first take us through the day in the life of an ACE, and just to point out, Stacy is a squad leader. So he's, he's like a-- >> Squadron Leader. >> Squadron Leader. >> Yeah. >> Squadron Leader, so he's got a bunch of ACEs underneath him, but share your perspective a day in the Life. Jennifer, we'll start with you. >> Sure, so I have actually a whole team that works for me both in the North America, both in the US and in Mexico. So I'm eagerly working to get them certified as well, so I can become a squad leader myself. But it's important because one of the critical gaps that we've found is people having the networking background because you graduate from college, and you have a lot of computer science background, you can program you've got Python, but networking in packets they just don't get. So, just taking them through all the processes that it's really necessary to understand when you're troubleshooting is really critical. Because you're going to get an issue where you need to figure out where exactly is that happening on the network, Is my issue just in the VPCs? Is it on the instance side is a security group, or is it going on prem? This is something actually embedded within Amazon itself? I mean, I troubleshot an issue for about six months going back and forth with Amazon, and it was the VGW VPN. Because they were auto scaling on two sides, and we ended up having to pull out the Cisco's, and put in Aviatrix so I could just say, " okay, it's fixed," and actually helped the application teams get to that and get it solved. But I'm taking a lot of junior people and getting them through that certification process, so they can understand and see the network, the way I see the network. I mean, look, I've been doing this for 25 years when I got out. When I went in the Marine Corps, that's what I did, and coming out, the network is still the network. But people don't get the same training they got in the 90s. >> Was just so easy, just write some software, and they were, takes care of itself. I know, it's pixie dust.  >> I'll come back to that, I want to come back to that, the problem solved with Amazon, but Toby. >> I think the only thing I have to add to that is that it's always the network's fault. As long as I've been in networking, it's always been the network's fault. I'm even to this day, it's still the network's fault, and part of being a network guy is that you need to prove when it is and when it's not your fault. That means you need to know a little bit about 100 different things, to make that work. >> Now you got a full stack DevOps, you got to know a lot more times another hundred. >> Toby: And the times are changing, yeah. >> This year the Squadron Leader and get that right. What is the Squadron Leader firstly? Describe what it is. >> I think is probably just leading on the network components of it. But I think, from my perspective, when to think about what you asked them was, it's about no issues and no escalations. So of my day is like that, I'm happy to be a squadron leader. >> That is a good outcome, that's a good day. >> Yeah, sure, it is. >> Is there good days? You said you had a good day with Amazon? Jennifer, you mentioned the Amazon, and this brings up a good point, when you have these new waves come in, you have a lot of new things, new use cases. A lot of the finger pointing it's that guy's problem , that girl's problems, so how do you solve that, and how do you get the Young Guns up to speed? Is there training, is it this where the certification comes in? >> This is where the certifications really going to come in. I know when we got together at Reinvent, one of the questions that we had with Steve and the team was, what should our certification look like? Should we just be teaching about what AVH troubleshooting brings to bear, but what should that be like? I think Toby and I were like, No, no, no, no. That's going a little too high, we need to get really low because the better someone can get at actually understanding what's actually happening in the network, and where to actually troubleshoot the problem, how to step back each of those processes. Because without that, it's just a big black box, and they don't know. Because everything is abstracted, in Amazon and in Azure and in Google, is abstracted, and they have these virtual gateways, they have VPNs, that you just don't have the logs on, is you just don't know. So then what tools can you put in front of them of where they can look? Because there are full logs. Well, as long as they turned on the flow logs when they built it, and there's like, each one of those little things that well, if they'd had decided to do that, when they built it, it's there. But if you can come in later to really supplement that with training to actual troubleshoot, and do a packet capture here, as it's going through, then teaching them how to read that even. >> Yeah, Toby, we were talking before we came on up on stage about your career, you've been networking all your time, and then, you're now mentoring a lot of younger people. How is that going? Because the people who come in fresh they don't have all the old war stories, like they don't talk about it, There's never for, I walk in bare feet in the snow when I was your age, I mean, it's so easy now, right, they say. What's your take on how you train the young People. >> So I've noticed two things. One is that they are up to speed a lot faster in generalities of networking. They can tell you what a network is in high school level now, where I didn't learn that til midway through my career, and they're learning it faster, but they don't necessarily understand why it's that way here. Everybody thinks that it's always slash 24 for a subnet, and they don't understand why you can break it down smaller, why it's really necessary. So the ramp up speed is much faster for these guys that are coming in. But they don't understand why and they need some of that background knowledge to see where it's coming from, and why is it important, and that's old guys, that's where we thrive. >> Jennifer, you mentioned you got in from the Marines, it helps, but when you got into networking, what was it like then and compare it now? Because most like we heard earlier static versus dynamic Don't be static is like that. You just set the network, you got a perimeter. >> Yeah, no, there was no such thing. So back in the day, I mean, we had Banyan vines for email, and we had token ring, and I had to set up token ring networks and figure out why that didn't work. Because how many of things were actually sharing it. But then actually just cutting fiber and running fiber cables and dropping them over shelters to plug them in and all crap, they swung it too hard and shattered it and now I got to figure eight Polish this thing and actually should like to see if it works. I mean, that was the network , current cat five cables to run an Ethernet, and then from that I just said, network switches, dumb switches, like those were the most common ones you had. Then actually configuring routers and logging into a Cisco router and actually knowing how to configure that. It was funny because I had gone all the way up, I was the software product manager for a while. So I've gone all the way up the stack, and then two and a half, three years ago, I came across to work with Entity group that became Viqtor Davis. But we went to help one of our customers Avis, and it was like, okay, so we need to fix the network. Okay, I haven't done this in 20 years, but all right, let's get to it. Because it really fundamentally does not change. It's still the network. I mean, I've had people tell me, Well, when we go to containers, we will not have to worry about the network. And I'm like, yeah, you don't I do. >> And that's within programmability is a really interesting, so I think this brings up the certification. What are some of the new things that people should be aware of that come in with the Aviatrix A certification? What are some of the highlights? Can you guys share some of the highlights around the certifications? >> I think some of the importance is that it doesn't need to be vendor specific for network generality or basic networking knowledge, and instead of learning how Cisco does something, or how Palo Alto does something, We need to understand how and why it works as a basic model, and then understand how each vendor has gone about that problem and solved it in a general. That's true in multicloud as well. You can't learn how Cloud networking works without understanding how AWS and Azure and GCP are all slightly the same but slightly different, and some things work and some things don't. I think that's probably the number one take. >> I think having a certification across Clouds is really valuable because we heard the global s eyes as you have a business issues. What does it mean to do that? Is it code, is it networking? Is it configurations of the Aviatrix? what is, he says,the certification but, what is it about the multiCloud that makes it multi networking and multi vendor? >> The easy answer is yes, >> Yes is all of us. >> All of us. So you got to be in general what's good your hands and all You have to be. Right, it takes experience. Because every Cloud vendor has their own certification. Whether that's SOPs and advanced networking and event security, or whatever it might be, yeah, they can take the test, but they have no idea how to figure out what's wrong with that system. The same thing with any certification, but it's really getting your hands in there, and actually having to troubleshoot the problems, actually work the problem, and calm down. It's going to be okay. I mean, because I don't know how many calls I've been on or even had aviators join me on. It's like, okay, so everyone calm down, let's figure out what's happening. It's like, we've looked at that screen three times, looking at it again is not going to solve that problem, right. But at the same time, remaining calm but knowing that it really is, I'm getting a packet from here to go over here, it's not working, so what could be the problem? Actually stepping them through those scenarios, but that's like, you only get that by having to do it, and seeing it, and going through it, and then you get it. >> I have a question, so, I just see it. We started this program maybe six months ago, we're seeing a huge amount of interest. I mean, we're oversubscribed on all the training sessions. We've got people flying from around the country, even with Coronavirus, flying to go to Seattle to go to these events where we're subscribed, is that-- >> A good emerging leader would put there. >> Yeah. So, is that something that you see in your organizations? Are you recommending that to people? Do you see, I mean, I'm just, I guess I'm surprised or not surprised. But I'm really surprised by the demand if you would, of this MultiCloud network certification because there really isn't anything like that. Is that something you guys can comment on? Or do you see the same things in your organization? >> I see from my side, because we operate in a multiCloud environments that really helps and some beneficial for us. >> Yeah, true. I think I would add that networking guys have always needed to use certifications to prove that they know what they know. >> Right. >> It's not good enough to say, Yeah, I know IP addresses or I know how a network works. A couple little check marks or a little letters body writing helps give you validity. So even in our team, we can say, Hey, we're using these certifications to know that you know enough of the basics and enough of the understandings, that you have the tools necessary, right. >> I guess my final question for you guys is, why an ACE certification is relevant, and then second part is share with the live stream folks who aren't yet ACE certified or might want to jump in to be aviatrix certified engineers. Why is it important, so why is it relevant and why should someone want to be a certified aviatrix certified engineer? >> I think my views a little different. I think certification comes from proving that you have the knowledge, not proving that you get a certification to get an army there backwards. So when you've got the training and the understanding and you use that to prove and you can, like, grow your certification list with it, versus studying for a test to get a certification and have no understanding of it. >> Okay, so that who is the right person that look at this and say, I'm qualified, is it a network engineer, is it a DevOps person? What's your view, a little certain. >> I think Cloud is really the answer. It's the, as we talked like the edges getting eroded, so is the network definition getting eroded? We're getting more and more of some network, some DevOps, some security, lots and lots of security, because network is so involved in so many of them. That's just the next progression. >> Do you want to add something there? >> I would say expand that to more automation engineers, because we have those now, so I probably extend it beyond this one. >> Jennifer you want to? >> Well, I think the training classes themselves are helpful, especially the entry level ones for people who may be "Cloud architects" but have never done anything in networking for them to understand why we need those things to really work, whether or not they go through to eventually get a certification is something different. But I really think fundamentally understanding how these things work, it makes them a better architect, makes them better application developer. But even more so as you deploy more of your applications into the Cloud, really getting an understanding, even from people who have traditionally done Onprem networking, they can understand how that's going to work in Cloud. >> Well, I know we've got just under 30 seconds left. I want to get one more question then just one more, for the folks watching that are maybe younger than, that don't have that networking training. From your experiences each of you can answer why should they know about networking, what's the benefit? What's in it for them? Motivate them, share some insights of why they should go a little bit deeper in networking. Stacy, we'll start with you, we'll go then. >> I'll say it's probably fundamental, right? If you want to deliver solutions, networking is the very top. >> I would say if you, fundamental of an operating system running on a machine, how those machines start together is a fundamental changes, something that start from the base and work your way up. >> Jennifer? >> Right, well, I think it's a challenge. Because you've come from top down, now you're going to start looking from bottom up, and you want those different systems to cross-communicate, and say you've built something, and you're overlapping IP space, note that that doesn't happen. But how can I actually make that still operate without having to re IP re platform. Just like those challenges, like those younger developers or assistant engineers can really start to get their hands around and understand those complexities and bring that forward in their career. >> They get to know then how the pipes are working, and they're got to know it--it's the plumbing. >> That's right, >> They got to know how it works, and how to code it. >> That's right. >> Awesome, thank you guys for great insights, ACE Certified Engineers, also known as ACEs, give them a round of applause. (audience clapping) (upbeat music) >> Thank you, okay. All right, that concludes my portion. Thank you, Steve Thanks for having me. >> John, thank you very much, that was fantastic. Everybody round of applause for John Furrier. (audience applauding) Yeah, so great event, great event. I'm not going to take long, we got lunch outside for the people here, just a couple of things. Just to call the action, right? So we saw the ACEs, for those of you out of the stream here, become a certified, right, it's great for your career, it's great for not knowledge, is fantastic. It's not just an aviator's thing, it's going to teach you about Cloud networking, MultiCloud networking, with a little bit of aviatrix, exactly like the Cisco CCIE program was for IP network, that type of the thing, that's number one. Second thing is learning, right? So there's a link up there to join the community. Again like I started this, this is a community, this is the kickoff to this community, and it's a movement. So go to community.avh.com, starting a community of multiCloud. So get get trained, learn. I'd say the next thing is we're doing over 100 seminars across the United States and also starting into Europe soon, we will come out and we'll actually spend a couple hours and talk about architecture, and talk about those beginning things. For those of you on the livestream in here as well, we're coming to a city near you, go to one of those events, it's a great way to network with other people that are in the industry, as well as to start alone and get on that MultiCloud journey. Then I'd say the last thing is, we haven't talked a lot about what Aviatrix does here, and that's intentional. We want you leaving with wanting to know more, and schedule, get with us and schedule a multi hour architecture workshop session. So we sit down with customers, and we talk about where they're at in that journey, and more importantly, where they're going, and define that end state architecture from networking, computer, storage, everything. Everything you've heard today, everybody panel kept talking about architecture, talking about operations. Those are the types of things that we solve, we help you define that canonical architecture, that system architecture, that's yours. So many of our customers, they have three by five, plotted lucid charts, architecture drawings, and it's the customer name slash Aviatrix, network architecture, and they put it on their whiteboard. That's the most valuable thing they get from us. So this becomes their 20 year network architecture drawing that they don't do anything without talking to us and look at that architecture. That's what we do in these multi hour workshop sessions with customers, and that's super, super powerful. So if you're interested, definitely call us, and let's schedule that with our team. So anyway, I just want to thank everybody on the livestream. Thank everybody here. Hopefully it was it was very useful. I think it was, and Join the movement, and for those of you here, join us for lunch, and thank you very much. (audience applauding) (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to our Palo Alto studios in California. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. This is a CUBE conversation with Jason Zintak, CEO of 6sense. This is part of our next gen conversation series. We talk about the technologies and the news and the people making it happen for the next generation technologies, clouds, and solutions. Jason, welcome to theCUBE conversation. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks, happy to be here. >> So you guys got some news. So you got a couple weeks ago you announced $40 million in funding, which we'll talk about. I want to get that out right away. But I think, more importantly, we're seeing a trend where this next gen blank is happening. You know, I'm watching just the Super Bowl next gen stats is for NFL. You got next gen cloud, you got next gen data. The world of the technology is kind of shifting to a new architecture. You're starting to see visibility into what this next gen looks like. Your company is squarely in the middle of this next gen sales and marketing platform, solutions in the new model. Cloud-scale, data first, this is a core, major shift and it's a huge market. Look at Salesforce, look at all these companies that've been around. And they're incumbents now, you're the new guard. >> Jason: Yeah, yeah. >> Tell us, what's going on with you guys? >> Sure, well you're right. We just raised $40 million. It's our Series C from Insight Partners. Went through a lengthy evaluation process and compete and happy to have announce that last month. And as far as next generation, you're correct. I grew up in a world of email platforms and then big data platforms, marketing automation. And this is a data first strategy, where we allow, we now have compute power that allows us to process huge amounts of data sets. So it's our belief that it should all be data first and driven from AI and ML on top of data that drives a next generation marketing tactic or sales tactic, an email, or a display ad. >> What's interesting is that you mentioned you worked in previous old school technology. You were CEO of Responsys, which was sold to Oracle. That was a great wave that brought in the marketing technology stack. We saw the sales and marketing solutions from Salesforce.com obviously. That was the first wave that you were part of. Now the new wave is going to that next level. This is really the fundamental shift. And it's not so much they're being replaced, but they're just being abstracted away with new capabilities, in some cases being replaced. What's the core problem that customers are having, or the core problem that you're solving because some of these old solutions can't scale. >> Jason: Sure. >> Some of them are because they're big, but what's the core problem in the industry? >> The core problem is that these systems were designed to be contact first, or lead first. And as you know today, no one likes an abundance of emails in their inbox. And so companies have said, hey I want to have a relationship with my customer or prospect. I want it to be a cycle of engagement, an infinity loop. Which means we don't blast emails. We monitor a relationship, what that's like, how we might engage. And the data allows us to do that. We can see what's going on with the activity, and based on that engagement, AI tells us what tactic might be the most appropriate. Which is actually send less but more effective and more targeted. So it's a data-driven approach. It's an account based focus in B2B world, as opposed to old generation which is lead and actually rule based. And so we used to write these, call them journey maps, these if then statements, which were manual. And the second we got done doing weeks of if then statements, they become stale. And so now data helps us and AI helps us understand real time behavior with intent and then the tactic. >> Love the name 6sense. Obviously you want to get a sense of what's going on around you, six degrees of separation. You got network effect. We're seeing a new reality and that is organic kind of user experience is different happening outside the funnel, sometimes inside the funnel, as they talk about in the sales and marketing. But users, at the end of the day, they're downloading Brave browser. They don't necessarily want the ads, and so they're making these decisions based on their experience that they want. So this is changing some of the tactics. >> Jason: Absolutely. >> So talk about that dynamic because the old way was based on see an ad, click on it, go to a landing page, get a lead, throw it in the funnel, matriculate down, and sell them something. And time's not on your side. It's not real time. It's slow, antiquated, you know how to quit. >> Exactly right, so if you don't look at Forrester or Gartner, they'll give you stats that 80% of the B2B sales cycle is done anonymously today. Meaning, they don't want to contact the vendor. There's an abundance of data on the web. And so we appreciate that. We want to actually enable an engagement through learning. We call it the actual dark funnel. This is all the research where it's happening without the vendor being contacted, without someone raising their hand and saying I want a vendor message. Because of this activity that we're able to see and be patient with, we're allowed to engage when the prospect or customer says they want to. But in a nurture format, so it's more respectful of their time. And all the while, this engagement idea is we're giving them content when they want it, when it's on demand, and when it's appropriate. >> And there's all kinds of new data laws coming, so you got to navigate that kind of regulatory environment. But we've been saying on theCUBE, this is our 10th year, and you know the old way and now we got a new way that you're on with company is that people are connected. Everything can be instrumented. This is the big data revelation that started about 10 years ago when the big data movement, and when people said hey data's going to be a big part of it. But with the internet, everyone's kind of connected, so you can technically measure everything. So as a company, how do you look at data? I mean data's fundamental to your vision and your execution. How is that ingrained into the culture and your product? >> Good question and first like to say we respect privacy in the data and personal and companies. So we are GDPR compliant, SOC 2, CCPA, the new California laws as you know. And that is part and parcel to our strategy, respect it. But at the same time, today's consumers generally want to be known in some way, shape or form because they understand the experience of engagement, whether it's an account or an individual customer. The experience is that much richer, if it's personalized and done with taste. Meaning, it's not spam. It's not a thousand emails. It's a meaningful, purposeful, time-based engagement,' content's relative to when they want to know something. >> Well I like what you guys are doing. I like this next gen architecture. It's definitely been valid. You've seen the rise of Amazon. Microsoft's shifted their business model to the cloud. And you're starting to see other ones, other people shifting. IBM shifting to the cloud. So they're all shifting to this new business model. So for you guys, 6sense, talk about and tell me about your target market. What market are you going after? Is it the marketing automation? Is it like the sales platform? What's the market that you're in now, and what market are you expanding into? >> Interesting you say that, so we're classically B2B. We obviously have a bunch of tech customers as our, in the account universe. But also manufacturers, service businesses. We are going after the entire B2B organization because the world as you know it, relative to marketing and sales, is changing. And so it's not just marketing automation that we're replacing, or a next generation of, it's customer success. It's the sellers. Our customers' sales organizations use it with their sales people to understand insights of their accounts and how to engage. So I'd say it's that whole universe, and it's that infinity loop across customer, sellers, marketers. >> You know, I want to just before I get into some of the business model questions and target audience, the buyer, you mentioned customer success. We're seeing a lot of energy around what that is. It used to be customer success was like customer satisfaction, support organization. You're seeing companies bring customer success much further forward into the sales and marketing process for pre-sales and or ongoing engagement as some of these SaaS environments evolve. >> Jason: Yep. >> Are you seeing that, and what's going on with this customer success? I'm seeing a lot more other than lip service. It's pretty integral with companies, organizations these days. What's your thoughts on that? >> I think all of us drive to be customer first, customer happiness, loyalty. Sure, why not? I mean, that's what we should do as organizations. Our software actually, interestingly enough, allows customers to monitor how their customers are engaging with the vendor. And for instance, they may be, if we see a spike in looking at a competitor, the customer will say, hey are you happy? Or product telemetry and usage. We help companies track that usage and see spikes and based on that intent, you might engage with your customer differently, high or low propensity to actually churn. We help with churn mitigation and churn management. >> Okay, let's get in to the product. We're kind of teasing around the product. What is the product? What's the core jewel? What's the IP? What's the main platform look like? What's the product? >> So as mentioned, we're a big data company first. Meaning, we believe it all starts with the data. Because of the compute power available, we're analyzing data, which is your first party data. So all your historical sales and marketing outbound, maybe your CRM system, your marketing automation system, some of the systems that will continue to evolve. And we'll match that data with behavioral data. So what's happening on the web, what's happening through maybe it's cookies, email hashes, display account ID, advertising ID. And we've patented an approach called a company ID graph. And this ID graph is essentially this marriage of people, personas, and accounts and what's going on. Based on the insight that comes from this monitoring, you can create audiences or segments to market to, to sell to. So the insights would be on the marketing side, relative to how do I parse my total addressable market. Or on the seller's side, Oh, I can understand what my count or my prospect might be doing today, therefore I want to execute XYZ tactic, and all led by AI. >> And so I got a, good point there about sales and marketing. In the old way you had a marketing tech, and a sales tech. The lines have blurred, almost seem to be fully integrated now, they're one in the same now, seems like that's the way you guys look at it. Is that true? >> Absolutely, I grew up in sales and marketing and the old world they didn't talk to each other. Today this is absolutely the glue, the connective tissue for sales and marketing so you can start with, whether it's marketing or sales ops, you start with a central plan around your account universe, and then parse from there and segment from there. And so, marketers and sellers will come up with the annual strategy, but allows the conversation. So it's no longer is my lead any good. We've got data around the lead, is the customer responding to an ad campaign. We've got data that it's true. It's not, you know, maybe. >> Yeah, it's always the sales guys always tripping about the leads, these are good leads. The leads are from Glen Gary, Glen Ross, always great quote, good quote that in there. All kidding aside, at the end of the day it's about customer satisfaction. No one wants to be marketed to, so it's a wave of personalization coming. And we're starting to see that now with Big Data, kind of set the tone on that. How are you seeing this new account based marketing and company selling platform. To deliver this kind of personalization it adds value. How do you orchestrate all that? So this is the big challenge, how do you bring that all together? What's your thoughts? >> So, actually our platform allows for that. So as you might imagine, you mentioned the sales funnel, and start with you know customer having initial curiosity, or maybe down at the bottom of the funnel there, actual buying stages through procurement. Based on where we detect someone is in the funnel, you would personalize the content. So if we detect through ID graph, that the company or person might be interested in general awareness, awareness content. If they're down in the buying cycle, far down into the funnel, then it's more related to transactional, meaningful clips that would be more relevant. And that is the personalization, so it's stage appropriate as someone would want to consume it. As there engaging with us. >> Jason give us some of the top use cases that you guys are seeing, as you start to see visibility, you got $40 million in funding, third round venture. You got customer growth, good growth. What's the visibility, what do you see in front of you, what are the use cases? >> Great, so for the capital, I assume you mean. We've had two great years, we've doubled the company two years in a row. We're expanding, so it's actually going to be sort of broad brush, we're expanding our field organization, we're expanding the engineering. We're looking for acquisitions that are strategic, and so our growth will be both organic and inorganic, but it's because of the success and the growth. We want to build the product better to make the customer happier. And that is the general use, of our international expansion. >> So I'm a customer, sell me on this, what's the pitch? >> So-- >> I'm a big tech company, I've got five tons of data. People, internal knife fights going on, I got this platform, we got to get the ROI out of it. How do you, what's the, what's in it for me, pitch me? >> Hey, John is your sales organization happy with the leads? Do they think it's quality? >> The leads are shit. (John laughs) >> The leads are shit, we can help you there, we actually have you know AI helping us understand your account prospects of whose high propensity to buy. We help your sellers. Does marketing talk to sales, John? >> They have meetings, no one want to attend them, I mean this is the kind of thing that goes on. I mean we're talking about, kind of role playing here, but in real time, Hey, no, we're good. It's the sales guys fault, they're not good enough. >> Yeah, exactly, so-- >> The leads are terrible. So there's obviously, again, this is the kind of thing, the tension that goes on. >> Yes, so from the marketers perspective they're looking for a more data driven approach to, and again data helps, data doesn't lie. You know it's sort of math. And so it's no longer speculative, it's we can see the engagement if we run a campaign, whether it be email, ads, social posts, chat bots. All this is collecting data, and showing data relative to efficacy, and that is actually what the marketer wants, and candidly the CEO wants to the see the result of those joint selling and marketing efforts. >> All right, so you got me hooked. Let's do something. How do your clients engage with you? What do they do? A POC? Do they just have a sandbox, is there kind of a freemium tier? can you explain some of the business model and engagement? >> Sure, yeah. We do POC's, we do sandbox. But interestingly enough, we can turn the data on in an hour, an actually a prospect can see what's happening in their universe, they're competitive universe or their own. website, for instance. And so that's a very easy way, tell-tale sign to see data at work. We have low entry points, where companies can come in at 30K at 20K, and start. Or we have million dollar plus contracts that you know span the breadth of sales, marketing and customer success. So it's an easy entry point, you can grow with data, you can grow with users, or you can grow with models. >> So Facebook, and LinkedIn are on, and Twitter, but mainly Facebook and LinkedIn are showing micro targeting as highly valuable. I mean the election train wreck that's happened this past few years, and even this year, I see Facebook has their own issues, but LinkedIn, a lot of people from a B2B standpoint, like LinkedIn. It's network effect kind of distribution, you got targeting, you got a lot of metadata in there. So it's kind of brought up the conversation around micro-targeting. Why can't you just go at the people? You guys do an account based marketing and sales orchestration platform, and you've got these little walled garden organizations out there like LinkedIn. I'm not sure they're selling the data, do they do that? Do you work with LinkedIn, so will there be more LinkedIn? Nope, we got our data, we're going to keep it? Data becomes the key, but if they're going to hoard the data, it's a problem. How do you address that? First of all, do they hoard the data or not? And if so, how do you guys get around that? >> Well you know LinkedIn's got a wonderful business, and they, to agree some of this wall, are a partner of ours, and actually we'll have some announcements pending. So I'll save that for later, but -- >> So they are engaging with platforms, LinkedIn from a data standpoint. >> Very much so, we're an active talks with LinkedIn. And I think we all want to share for the benefit of the ultimate customer experience. And we believe that because we have the Big Data, and we also allow for that micro-segmenting. LinkedIn's another channel, and we want to activate every channel through our platform and that is our strategy. So we allow you as mentioned before, email, display, social sites. >> Do you guys have a program or approach or posture to the marketplace in terms of, if I have a platform, do I engage with you. Can I be a partner or am I a customer? How do you look at the biz dev or partner side of it? >> You know part of the $40 million funding is going to allow us to build out the partner ecosystem that's already in play. We work with agencies, ad agencies. We work with professional service organizations. We work with complimentary software products. We want it to be an open system. We want to be able to bring your own data, and we'll carry it for you to make the AI that much smarter. >> Awesome, great stuff, quick plug of the company, we're you guys at in terms of head count? What are some of your goals this year? And what are you guys looking for, obviously hiring, you said, you mentioned earlier? Give a quick plug for the company. >> Yeah, thank you for that. As I mentioned we doubled the company two years in a row. We've tripled our head count. You know we're hiring everyday in every single segment, looking for people. We'd love to talk to you. We've also tripled our customer base in that same period. So, things are going well, we're happy and I think the big challenge is just keep doing it, and deliver delightful experience for customers. >> Interesting, companies can be very successful Jason if they have a certain you know view. You guys are data first, you got to a horizontal view of the data, but yet providing a specific unique solution to differentiate off that. We're video first, that's our angle. A lot of people having virtual first. Your starting to see this new kind of scale with companies. So I want to ask you about your vision for the next few years. As you look out as the wave is coming in, it's very clear. Cloud-scale, the roll of data, machine learning and AI. It's going to build this Application Layer that has to be horizontally scalable, but yet vertically specialized, for the use cases. Which requires a very dynamic data intensive environment. What's your vision of the next few years? How do you see the world evolving? Because there's a lot of big companies, and start-ups that have been around doing a lot of these point solutions that are features. How do you see this next wave go in the next five years? >> I had a thesis three years ago, I joined the company that these point solutions would go away because they weren't data driven. The hard work is in the large data, the applying the ML and AI on top of that and then doing something with that. We surfaced in applications for the last two years, we've been building the apps that allow marketers, sellers, and customer success organizations to prosecute that data, understand the data and let AI recommend a tactic. So I think it'll just be more of the same but specialized by use case. So where some of our applicability is generic use cases, we'll get specific to telecom on that use case, we'll get more specific in customer success enabling turn mitigation as opposed to just sellers and marketers. >> That's awesome. And if you look at the current events, I got to get your expert opinion. Donald Trump, the Democrats, they've been using social platforms, political ads are being kicked off, but there is a lot more innovation that they're actually doing. So with all that they had actors out there, there's actually an innovation story that's going on under the covers. What's your view of that, I mean the bad stuff's out there, but they're leveraging the new architecture. Facebook's on record saying that Donald Trump ran the best campaign ever. Mentions why he's winning. >> That's the story and back story is sort of history unfolds when we understand it. Is that these election cycles have leveraged data to run their campaigns and it's the new world. And so while there may be bad actors, I think hopefully the world is majority good. And much like our story, we tryna bring a data solution and help decisioning. Obviously, the political campaigns are leveraging it to. >> Yeah, it's disastrous to see the applications fail like they did in Iowa, but the data's there, I mean it's about time. I always say it's going to be on block chain, and Andrew Yang is, just recently came out and said, All the voting should be on block chain. Maybe that's going to happen someday, we'll see. Jason thanks for coming, I appreciate the conversation. >> I appreciate the opportunity, thanks John. >> Jason Zintak, here the CEO of 6sense, industry veteran. Big pedigree, big company with $40 million in fresh funding. We're talking about next generation platforms, I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Diego, California. It's the Cube. Covering Cisco Live US 2019. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. We're here in San Diego Convention Center for Cisco Live 2019. I'm Stu Miniman and my co-hosts Dave volante. Lisa Martin's also been here for our three days, wall to wall coverage with about 28 to 30,000 here in attendance for the 30th anniversary of the user and partner show for Cisco. Happy to welcome to the program our first time guest, Jeff Scheaffer, who's Vice President of Product Management Strategy inside of Cisco. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you Stu, glad to be here. >> Alright, so Jeff DNA center, some of the environments that you have. There were some announcements on Monday, why don't we start there? Walk us through the updates to the product line. >> Thanks Stu. So we're really excited, right. >> So as you know, with Cisco, we're really building out the intent based network, in support of digital transformation for all of our customers. And one of the key aspects of the intent based network is that we have incredible programability in the network, all supported through the DNA see controller. And this week, we're really excited. We announced two new innovations in the controller. One was incorporating a new set of analytics and machine learning capabilities as part of our assurance package so that we can more quickly troubleshoot network issues. And the third is being able to connect together the multi dev environments. So how do we stitch together, the software defined access to the Software defined WAN, to the software defined data center so that we can lay digital services across the entire network. >> Stu: Yeah, it's a story we've been watching the last couple of years at Cisco is that this move to software in many ways as a unifying factor. >> Yes. >> Used to be I had all these product lines, and I need to learn the interfaces, as my friends that come to the show for many years, when you said single pane of glass, there's like, come on that's spelt P-A-I-N. Today's world, it's an API economy. And what's been really interesting to watch the last... Recently, a lot of times, it's that ml and AI underneath that spans and helps automate a lot of those pieces underneath the covers now. >> Yes, absolutely, it does. So the thing we're excited AI is a broad topic as you know. And underneath that umbrella we have built in new capabilities around the machine learning, the ability to do deep learning, as we look at anonymized data sets in the cloud on deduce patterns that people don't know yet. And then thirdly, we're looking at machine reasoning. So how do we take that the analytics to pinpoint or identify anomalies in the fabric of the network in these new IBM fabrics and then be able to couple that with a set of orchestrated automation so that we can we can emulate the behavior that a network engineer would normally do in order to troubleshoot and diagnose problems and so we're that much faster at identifying them, pinpointing the root cause and then actually being able to give recommendations if not automatically fixing it, the recommendations to resolve the issues. >> So the programability aspect, of course, we're here in the DevNet zone. So, can we dig into that a little bit? I mean I'm imagining by that, it allows me to provision, bandwidth performance, certain levels, all through API calls and it's through software. And I can set thresholds, I can talk more about what that does for me as a customer. >> Sure. So in general, within DNA center, we have a kind of very rich programability capability. It's very much an API first developed controller. So everything that we can do within the controller is a setup of published and curated API's. And those API's come in different categories. So we have API's that are around the automatic configuration and the provisioning of the network infrastructure. Very much, Dave as you're suggesting that you can run as a headless entity inside of a if somebody like a lot of service providers and partners are using this to offer a service to their end customers. And so they can automatically provision out the network and they can do that in support of new applications. We're really actually excited with that in our partnership with Red Hat, we just introduced a new set of answerable plugins as an example, to support a DevOps process by which software developers build new applications as part of that DevOps code pipeline. By using the answerable plugins, we can actually drive automation into the network to provision the networking in support of those apps. So a lot of capabilities there. >> So is the uniqueness of that you can actually do that or is the uniqueness that you're Cisco. >> I know. So to a large part of it... In terms of the way things have been done historically, and this is that most of the time, if you were to look at how do you configure a network, it was device by device and it was through command line interfaces. >> Right. >> And it's error prone, it's complex, it's cumbersome, it takes a lot of time. And so what we've done with the network controllers, is by moving above the top of the intent based network, we're actually able to automatically configure and provision either policy through policies, either QoS or segmentation for security and do that in a very automated way. And to be able to do it in a scalable way. So that is an amusing new kind of configuration mechanisms we're very proud of the work we're doing around NetComp and YANG Models and that's something that's very unique in the way we're approaching that in the market today. >> Yeah, Jeff, historically, one of the concerns was the network. It's tied to the application wasn't as tight there. It's like you talked about networking people, it's just the water that runs through the pipes that we watched with first with ACI now with intent based networking. We're getting closer and closer to that application, especially you talk about multi domain what's going on at ties right with the microservices architectures that are coming on there. So as the applications get more complicated, the network needs to be able to understand what's happening there and respond to what's needed and give back the services that they need. >> Yeah. So I think building on where you're taking that conversation, one of the really kind of key or anchor points of the whole idea around the multi domain integrations that we provided, when we bring together Software Defined access, the software defined when and the software defined data center. We're using the the rich API's that exists in all of our controllers, whether its DNA see for software defined access, whether it's vManaged for the software defined WAN, or whether it's ACI around the software defined data center. And we're integrating all three of these controllers so that they can do a couple of really important things for customers. So in the context of the application. So the very first thing is how do we provide for segmentation? So segmentation is about how do we provide access policy and drive that into the network so that the right users have access to the right applications and other people don't. And then being able to use the programability. If the user moves from say the campus to the branch, we can automatically have the policy follow the user. If the application moves from the data center to the cloud, We can have the policy automatically follow the application and that way we always ensure that the right people have access to the right applications at the right time. The other use case around the around the API's and the multi domain segmentation is that to the extent an application needs quality of service. We think about an 82% of the US we move forward in time or roughly 82% of the traffic on the internet is starting to become video on the networks and like an 8k video is 7.29 terabits per second. So how do you ensure that there's enough bandwidth and enough quality of service to ensure the latency of like virtual reality or augmented reality where latency matters. And so the other thing we're doing with policy is provisioning up the Qos, so that as you configure it in the data center, it's honored in the software defined WAN and it's honored it all the way to the end user in the software defined access. >> Stu you were saying earlier how traditional is like don't touch my network, right, okay. So Jeff, my question is if you look over the last 10 years, as you bring in the software design defined data center and infrastructure programmable and infrastructure, infrastructures code. How is that change? And is it changing the relationship between infrastructure pros and application developers and application development heads? >> Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So kind of comes from two different angles. So number one, from the extent that every software development organization becomes more and more of a DevOps organization and they want to be able to deliver value, the experience, the velocity around the applications to production, as they go through those code pipelines through the DevOps practices, they need to be able to automatically provision out test environments, they need to be able to automatically provision out the pre stage and then automatically promote the applications into production environments. And that's what why it's so important, for example, as we as we mentioned earlier about the answerable plugins that allow the configuration of the network in support of application DevOps teams. The second thing that we find with the network engineers themselves, to the extent we've defined everything as software defined. We have this rich set of digital services that we're starting to manage in these infrastructures and through the controller that programability, the controller, network engineers are having to evolve their capability. And so, you know, we're really excited that the show that Susie Wee, who leads our DevNet program introduced a whole new category of offerings in support of how you start to become both not only a network engineer, but also development aware through for example, the DevNet automation exchange, by making DevNet certifications available through Cisco certifications. And by hosting these curated communities, where we're able to contribute new applications that run on top of our controllers. We're able to contribute new integrations, new automation, logic, new AI, ml logic, everything that's possible. And by curating it, it means it's curated code, but then it's stored in very common repositories like GitHub. It's still really excited with everything she's doing. If Cisco is going to prime the pump with initially right with apps and code started-- >> We've been priming the pump. But we've actually over the last little bit, we've developed a number of partnerships. So we have over 25 partners that have built value added applications and integrations for example, DNA center, we have a number of partners that have actually taken DNA center and wrapped it with a new kind of a new service offering a solution offering to the network. I'll give you a great example. So one of our partner that Tall tale. So what they've done is they've taken DNA Center at the core and our ability to quickly provision wireless infrastructure. And they've wrapped it with a hook telling solution for Convention Center. So think about a convention center, you have a large space, multiple concurrent shows, every one of them setting up their own wireless network with their own SSID. And so the ability to set these up, tear these down, resolve problems quickly in these high density spaces. And they built out completely as a solution on top of the programability of DNA center and our IBM infrastructure. So it's a very exciting time. >> Alright, so Jeff, some new things announced but I also want you to touch on I believe, about a year ago, API and programability was launched. What lessons learned? What feedback from the customers? Give us the update. >> Yeah, so we launched the programability. And as we mentioned before, it's a kind of a very broad ecosystem of capability. Now, the first thing about, programability is really meant to do a couple of key things. One, and probably most important, is to enable all of our customers to be able to make sure that everything's fit for purpose. So how do we integrate into their existing enterprise ecosystems. And so we know we're API first, we have SDK sample apps, we have a bunch of out of the box integrations that use all these SDK for example, integrations with service now and others. And so that's new. The second thing that we're doing with all of the program abilities, we're using it to enable the community. So the challenges we all know, in technology spaces, is that the rate of innovation continues to expand. It's like innovation is on the sphere. You know, it's the surface area of the sphere. And as every year progresses, that surface area gets bigger. The rate of innovation gets bigger and the ability to keep up with that, exceeds the capacity of most organizations. So the best way to harness that is a community based approach. And if you don't have communities, if you don't have programability, if you don't take that strategic approach, it's very hard to stay current and relevant to the market of the future. So that's another big thing that we're really excited by is being able to track that community and then an ecosystem of partners in development. >> Great, Jeff, want to just give you the final word, a lot going on in your space, any final customer takeaways or things you want people to walk away from your team from Cisco Live 2019. >> Yeah, so the present thing that I'm most excited by is that as we look at the transformation of networks, from kind of the device centricity to how do we manage segmentation in these multi domain fabrics. And do that in support of ensuring quality of experience, so the bandwidth and the latency and support of the applications. Ensuring the segmentation and the secure, being able to minimize the attack surface on these new infrastructures by driving segmentation through the fabric. It really takes kind of a systems approach to this, which is how we bring the intent based network together with, for example, the new Cat9K family from Cisco and then bringing DNA centered the controller together. By bringing those two things together. We're really helping to change the entire architecture of the industry for the next 20 years. So very excited to be here. Thank you guys. >> Excellent. >> Dave: You are welcome. >> Well, Jeff Schafer, really appreciate all the updates. Congratulations on what's going there. For Dave volante, Dave, you have a final word to say. >> Well go Bruins is the only thing I can think about right now Stu. >> That's what I was expecting you to say. So Dave Volante I'm Stu Miniman. We back, getting towards the end of three days wall to wall coverage here from San Diego, for Cisco Live 2019. Thanks for watching the Cube (techy music)

>> from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem Barker's >> We'll get back to the Cube. We are live at Cisco Live in San Diego. Study. San Diego. Lisa Martin with David Lantana and David Ayer. Super geeking out here, Susie, we is with us back with us. SPP in CTO of depth that Suzy Welcome back. Thank you. It's great to be back. So this event is massive. Cisco's been doing customer and partner events for 30 years now. What started as networkers? We? No, no, it's just alive. Something else you might not know that's also 30 years old. Dizzy. The movie, The Field of dreams. >> Wow, uh, kind of feels like the field does kind of feel like that that are one >> years yes, on ly five years. This has been so influential in Cisco's transition and transformation. You've got nearly 600,000 members in this community. Definite zone. It's jam packed yesterday today. Expect tomorrow as well? Yes, and you guys made simple, really exciting announcements. Yes, we didn't tell us >> about it, so it's fantastic. >> So basically what happens is the network has gotten very powerful. It has gotten very capable. You know, you can do intelligence machine learning you Khun Dio Intent based networking. So instead of the network just being a pipe, you can actually now use it to connect users devices applications use policy to make sure they're all connected securely. There's all sorts of new things that you could do. But what happens is, while there's all that new capability, it's in order to take advantage of it. It takes more than just providing new products and new technology. So our announcements are basically in two areas and we call it. It's like unleashing the capabilities of the new network and by doing it in to a So won is by bringing software practices to networking. So now that it really is a software based, programmable network with all of these capabilities, we wantto make sure that practice of software comes into a networking, and then the other is in the area of bringing software skills to networking because you need the right skills to be able to also take advantage of that. So if I just jump right into it, so the 1st 1 in terms of bringing software practices to networking. We've announce something that we call definite automation exchange. And so what happens is, you know, of course, our whole community builds networks. And as businesses have grown, their networks have grown right and they've grown and grown business has grown growing, grown right, and then it's become hardest, become unmanageable. So while you say there's all these great new technologies, but these things have grown in their way, so our customers biggest problem is actually network automation like How do I take my network? How do I bring automation to it? There's all the promise of it and definite automation. Exchange is built to basically help our community work towards network automation, so it's a community based developer center. What we say is that we're helping people walk, run and fly with network automation by walking. We're saying, OK, there's all these cool things you could do, but let's take it in three steps like first of all is let's walk. So first, just do a read only thing like get visibility, get insights from your network, and you can be really smart about it because you can use a lot of intelligence predictive modeling. You can figure out what's going on. So that alone is super valuable. >> Get the data. >> Get the data I learn on DH. Then next is an Okay, I'm ready to take action. Like so. Now I've learned I'm ready to take action, apply a network policy, apply a security policy, put controls into your network. That's you know. So, uh, walk, run, And then when you're ready to fly is when you're saying okay, I'm going to get into the full dev ops soup with my network. I'm going to be gathering the insights. I'm going to be pushing in control. I'm now optimizing managing my network as I go. So that's the whole slice it. So the wing fact, we want to go to them the walk, run, fly. >> And if I understand from reading your blood, Great block, by the way, >> Thank you. >> A lot of executives, right? Blog's and it's kind of short of yours is really substantively like, Wow, that was >> really something on. That's No, >> But if I understood a truck that you're gonna prime Sisko was gonna prime the pump A cz? Well, yeah, with a lot of ideas and code on DH. Yes, and then engineers can share. There's if they so choose. >> Exactly. So the key part of automation exchange beyond helping people take thes areas. The question is, how are we going to help them? Right? So what happens is what we've been doing with Definitive. We've been helping people learned to code, you know, in terms of networkers, we've been helping bring software developers into the community. We've been helping them learn to use a pea eye's all the good stuff a developer a good developer program should do. But what are networkers have said is I need help solving use cases. I need help solving the problems that I'm trying to solve, like how to get telemetry and monetary, how to get telemetry and insights from my network. How do I offer a self serve network service out to my, you know, customers line of business developers, you know, howto I automate it scale. And so what happens is there's a you know there's an opportunity or a gap between the products and AP eyes themselves and then solving these use cases so are now opening up a code repository, Definite Automation exchange, where the community can develop software that actually solves those use cases. Francisco is going to curate it. It's just going to be code on Get Hub. We'll make sure that it has the right, you know, licenses that, you know, we do some tests and it's working well with the FBI's, and then we're hoping it's going to become. We're hoping, you know, kind of the industries leading network automation code repository to solve these problems. >> Well, it's this key because big challenge that customers tell us that they have with automation is they got all these bespoke tools. None of them work together. So do you think something like this exchange can help solve that problem? >> It can. I believe it can. So the reason being is that you know, there are tools that people use and everybody's environments a little different. So some might want Teo integrate in and use answerable terra form, you know, tools like that. And so then you need code that'll help integrate into that. Other people are using service now for tickets. So if something happens, integrate into that people are using different types of devices, hopefully mostly Cisco, but they may be other using others as well way can extend code that goes into that. So it really helps to go in different areas. And what's kind of cool is that our there's an amount of code that where people have the same problems, you know, you know, you start doing something. Everyone has to make the first few kind of same things in software. Let's get that into exchange. And so let's share that there's places where partners are gonna want to differentiate. Keep that to yourselves like use that as your differentiated offer on DH. Then there's areas where people want to solve in communities of interest. So we have way have someone who does networking, and he wants to do automation. He does it for power management in the utilities industry. So he wants a community that'll help write code that'll help for that area, you know, So people have different interests, and, you know, we're hoping to help facilitate that. Because Sisko actually has a great community way, have a great community that we've been building over the last 30 years there the network experts there solving the real problems around the world. They work for partners, they work for customers, and we're hoping that this will be a tool to get them to band together and contribute in a software kind of way. >> So is the community begins to understand never automation and elect your pathway of of walk, run fly swatter. Soothe projected business outcomes that that any industry, whether it's utilities or financial services, will be able to glean from network automation. I can imagine how expensive from topics perspective it is all this manual network management. So what? Oh, that's some of the things that you projecting the future that businesses who adopt this eventually are going to be able to re >> Absolutely, I mean, just, you know, very simple. Well, so many, so many things. So, uh, in the in the case of what's a manufacturing, because you're talking about different industries? So there's a whole opportunity of connected manufacturing, right? So how do I get all of those processes connected, digitized and write. Now write things air being pretty much run in their way. But if you can really connect them in, digitize them. Then you can start to glean business insights from them. Right? Should I speed up? How's my supply chain doing where my parts Where's my inventory? Everything. You get all of that connected. That is like a huge business implications on what you can do. >> You have a kitchen, get start getting the fly will effect around all that data. Akeley. So I've always been fascinated that you see definite zone and there's these engineers ccs saying Okay, I want to learn more. I want to learn how to code numbers keep growing and growing and growing. And so you've got new certifications. Now that you're >> out of that was, >> this's huge. You need to talk about that, >> Yes, so that, you >> know, kind of the second part of our thing is like how we're bringing software skills to networking. So to get you know, the most of all this opportunity, you do need software skills. And of course, that's what Definite was originally founded on is really helping people to build those skills. But we've kind of graduated to the next level because we've teamed up with the Learning and Cisco team, which creates Cisco Start ification program. Cisco has, you know, an amazing certification program. So the C C. A is the gold standard and certifications and you know networkers around the world have that C C I status partners have built up. They pay people for that. You know any customer who's deploying now, which they will hire the CCS. So that was founded in 1993. The first see CIA, and that program in the next 26 years has grown to what it is. And what we've done is we've teamed up with them to now add a definite certification. So we're bringing in software skills along with the networking skills so that we have the Cisco certifications, the Cisco definite certifications sitting side by side and you know we believe it. You know, right now the people who you've seen in the definite Zone are the ones who know what's important. They come in there doing it. But they said, I want credit for what I'm doing. Like I get credit, I get a raise, I get bonuses. My job level depends on my networking sort of occasions. I'm doing this on my nights and weekends, but I know it's important. And now, by bringing this into the program, my company can recognise this. I'm recognized as a professional for my skills. It helps in all sorts of ways. >> So go ahead. Please >> think this just sounds way more to me than the next step. In Definite. It sounds like it's a revolution. >> It's a revolution. >> First addition in 26 years, that's bay >> now. I mean, there have been changes in the program, but it's the biggest change in those 26 years. Absolutely. And you know, like we'll see what what happens. But I think it is, Ah, step change in a revolution for the industry because we're recognizing that networking skills are important and software skills are important and critical. And if you want to build a team that can compete, that can really help your companies succeed, you're gonna want both of these skills together in your organization. And I believe that that's goingto help accelerate the industry, because then they can use all of these tools, right? So right now on it department can either hold the company down or accelerate a company to success because the question is, how quickly can you help someone adopt cloud? How can they do multi cloud? How convey innovative software speeds? And now we're here, hopefully catalyzing the network industry to be ableto work at that speed. >> I was joking. You wanna be the department of No or the Department of Go? Let's go. So is being a C C. A prerequisite to the definite certificate is not okay, so is not linear. So you're getting CC eyes obviously lining up to get certified to see him here So you could get kids out of college saying, Okay, I want in. >> Absolutely. And so the way that it works is that, um so actually you could. So what we have with the Cisco certifications for both the definite as well as the original Cisco started Take bath is that there's an associate level, which means you have about a years working experience. You know enough. So see CNN, Cisco Certified Network associate. They know enough about networking so that they can learn the fundamentals of networking and then be effective as part of a team that runs networks. So that's what that certification does for you. Way also now have a definite associate, which is ensuring that you have the software skills that you can also enter a team that's writing software applications or doing automated work flows for a network. And we have to know that all developers are not created equally. So just cause you wrote a mobile app doesn't mean that you can write software for, you know, running operational network. So the definite association is more like you need to be able to securely use AP eyes, right? So there's a lot of things that are within that. And then we have the professional in the expert levels. Um, and we have it on both sides now. Originally, way were thinking that there's the network engineer path. We're going to sprinkle a little software in there, and we'll have the definite path for a software developer, and it would be its own path. But we got feedback as we started presenting to our partners into our customers. And then they're like, No, this cannot be separate people. It's like it needs to come together. And so then we changed our how we thought about it, and we said that there's a set of engineering certifications and there's a set of software certifications. Anybody can get what they want, and you can start to combine them in very interesting ways. >> I could put together my own career, Mosaic. >> Absolutely so if you said, You know what? I am going to be that tick ass networker. And if we have the unicorn of like and I'm goingto you know over time, we're going to offer definite expert in the future. I said, I'm going to be a CC expert in the future. Be a definite expert. That's awesome. But we're not forcing folks to do it, because maybe you're going to be a CC. I get a definite associates so that you can speak the language of software and know what it does. But then you'll sit alongside a developer, and you guys will be able to speak the same language together. And we also make sure that our developers learn a bit about networking. So if you look at that associate, it's kind of 80 20 networking software, the other one's 80 20 software and networking so that they can actually work and talk to each other. >> So looking at these big waves that were writing right now and compute in network with G WiFi six s edge a prize anywhere, how is definite and the certification that you've just unleashed into the world? How is it going to enable not just the community members. Yes, who helped accelerate Companies take advantage of some of these big ways. But how is it going? Helps drive Cisco's evolution? >> And so and you bring up a great distinction, which is as we talk about a new set of applications. And we talked about this that create a definite create when you're there. Is that APP developers? If they understand the capabilities of the network, they can actually write an entirely new set of applications. Because you know, five g y fi six are better. If you understand EJ computing in the opportunity there, you know a networker will install a network that can host apse that makes edge computing riel. So there's another reason for the app developer a community to come together with the networkers. So when we talk about now, how does this help? Cisco is Well, first of all, it takes all of the networkers that are out there, and it insures that they're getting to that next level so that you're really fully using those capabilities and that worked, which can then accelerate business, you know. So it really is. The new capabilities are entirely different. Wayto look at networking that really do Tie and Dr Business On the other is the other part we're talking about is those APP developers that come in and write great applications can come in and now really be connected and actually use that whole network infrastructure and all its capabilities. So that really ties us to more kind of, you know, instead of a networker going in instead of going in and selling network kit and then figuring out the line of business things separately, you Khun, bring those applications into our ecosystem and into our offerings. So it's an integrated offering like here's a connected manufacturing offering that includes what you need to connect as well a CZ third party applications that are great for the manufacturing industry. And now you're looking at selling that whole solution >> and applications that we haven't even thought of a member in Barcelona walking into the i o. T Zone and seeing some programmable device from a police car on a camera. And, yes, some of these guys could just they're going to create things that we definite create, haven't even conceived, so you're creating sort of this new role. To me, it's like D B A You know, CC, it's now this new definite creator in a role that is going to have a lot of influence in the organization because they're driving value right there, going toe, bring people with them. People going to say, Oh, I want that. So now you think you're going to stand in Barcelona? The number of people that you've trained, I don't know, make many tens of thousands. I mean, where we have today with >> hundreds of thousands, wait half 1,000,000 5 100,000 Last year were at six >> 100,000. This was going 100,000 organic new members over the last year. So >> people here over half 1,000,000 now. >> Yeah. Yeah. So unbelievable. Yep, definitely So I know it's great. And just people are interested, right? So people are interested. People are learning, you know? And that's what makes it, you know, interesting to me is people are finding value in it, and they're coming. So s O. I think that, you know, kind of definite in the last five years has been kind of like an experiment, right? So it's just like, is the industry ready? Like do networkers really want to learn about software. What air? That we've been kind of prime ing it. And, you know, by now getting to this next level, you know, just the certifications. What we have learned from all of that is that it's really and that, you know, with the new capabilities in the network, we can really take our community and our bring new people into our community to make that opportunity really into Dr Business from the network. >> Everybody wants the code >> had they dio and some >> people >> are scared. Actually, some people are very scared. >> You mean intimidated, >> intimidated, intimidated. Yes. So there's the set of people who've come in early, right? And they're the ones who you've seen in the definite Zone. But everybody, of course, they start out scared. But then right after they get over that fear, they realize this really is a new future. And so then they start jumping in, and so it's both beer and then opportunity. >> Then they're on strike. That's what it's all about, Yang. And absolutely, I could do this for my business and >> absolutely, I would love to know the end that near future, how many different products and services and Maybe even companies have been created from the definite community for springing all these different Pittsburgh folks together. Imagine the impact >> it is. I mean, like, one really small things. You've been with us at our little definite create conference is we have something there that's called Camp Create, which is where they spend a week hacking, right? So and this It's kind of sometimes our most serious attendees because they're choosing Teo Code for the weak is what you know as well as to attend way. Didn't really add it all up yet. But what we found is there's about 25 to 30 people who attend. Met a bunch of them got promoted in that year. Wow. So in different ways, you know, not in ways that are necessarily connected but in their own ways, like in their company. This person got promoted to this to this one area. This other person, one person was a contractor. They got converted to a, you know, full time employee. So you know, we have to go and do the math on it. But what's amazing is that you know it just you know that bring that fills our hearts. >> It's organic too. Well, Susie, we Thank you so much for joining David. Me on the clean. You're going back with me tomorrow. And some guests. I'm looking forward to that. Excellent. Yes, Absolutely. More, More great stars. >> Your duel Co hosting a >> way. I didn't know that. No way. But I'll turn. I'll be the host is Well, I try something new. Way we're >> gonna have fun. I am looking forward to it. Thank you >> so much. And thank you for being with us in our whole vision of definite from the beginning. So thank you. >> It's been awesome. All right. We want to thank you for watching the Cube for David. Dante. I'm Lisa Martin. We will catch you right back with our last guest from Cisco Live in San Diego.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Dell World Technologies here in Las Vegas. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Stu Miniman. We have two guests on this segment. Both CUBE veterans, so. (laughs) We have Varun Chhabra. He is the VP, Product Marketing, Cloud Dell EMC and Muneyb Minhazuddin, VP Solutions Product Marketing at VMware. Thank you so much for coming on the show. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thanks for having us. >> So we just had the keynote address. We heard from Michael Dell, Sachin Adela, Pat Gelsinger. It's a real who's who of this ecosystem. Break it down for us. What did we hear? What is sort of the most exciting thing from your perspective, Varun? >> So, Rebecca, what we hear from customers again and again is it's a multicloud world, right? Everybody has multiple cloud deployments. We saw Pat mention five on average, cloud architectures in customer environments. And what we keep hearing from them is there are operational silos that develop as part of the tool set, the SLAs that are different, the machine formats. All of these things just lead to a lot of operational silos and complexity. And what customers are overwhelmingly asking Dell EMC as well as VMware, is that how do we reduce this complexity? How do we be able to move work loads together? How do we manage all of this in a common framwork and reduce some of that complexity, so that really they can take advantage of the promise of multicloud. >> So Muneyb, theCUBE goes to, you know, all the big industry shows. >> Right. >> I feel like everywhere I go used to be, you know, it's like Intel and NVIDIA up on stage with the next generation. Well, for the last year, it felt like, you know, Pat and Sanjay were, you know, somebody like that, you know, up on stage. We have the Google cloud event a couple of weeks ago. There was Sanjay up on stage. You come here, there's Sachin Adela up on stage. So, let's talk about that public cloud piece. You know, we know the relationship with AWS, VMware cloud on AWS sent ripples through the industry. And, you know, the Google cloud piece. So tell us what's new, anything different about the Microsoft piece when it comes to public cloud. And how does that fit in relation to all the other clouds? >> Sure, no, I'll amplify what Varun said, right. We think about customer's choice first. And really customer choice as you know, you got multiple cloud providers. We've seen customers makes this choice of, I need to make this, you know, a multi-cloud world. Why are they going towards the multi-cloud world is because applications are going there. And really VMware's strategy has been to say how do we empower customers with that choice? Our, you know, AWS partnership is as strong as ever. We continue to innovate there. And that was our first kind of choice of platform. And Pat alluded to this on the stage. We have 4,000 cloud provider partners, right. And the 4,000 cloud provider partners we've built over the years, and that include, you know, not small names. They include IBM. Like you know they've got Rackspace, some of the biggest cloud providers. So our strategy has always been how do we take our stack and land it in as many public clouds as possible? So we took the first step of IBM, then about 4,000 other cloud providers, be it Rackspace, Fujitsu, Hitachi. Then came Amazon, Amazon being the choice of destination for a lot of public clouds. Today, we kind of further extend that with Microsoft, and you know a few weeks ago with Google. So this is really about customer choice and customers when they want the hybrid multi-cloud piece, it's app-driven. Right, you got two worlds. You got an existing application and you're looking to get some scale out of that existing application. And you're building a lot of native cloud, native applications. They want this, you know, in multiple places. >> All right, so if I could just drill down one level deep. So if I'm going to ask your customer today, my understanding is the VMware's DDC Stack, what does that mean, what do I use, how is that look and feel compared, do I use the Microsoft system center, am I using vCenter, you know. >> Sure, this is really, again, an app-driven conversation, right. There were multiple announcements in here, just to unpack them. It was like, hey, we have the Dell Technologies cloud platform. The Dell Technologies cloud platform is powered by DELL EMC infrastructure and VMware Cloud Foundation on top, virtualizing your full compute network storage with vShere, vSAN, NSX, and management, right. And the second part was really we've got VMware Cloud on a Dell EMC. This is to bring cloud to the work loads, which did in public clouds. We're seeing this repatriation of work loads back on the data center or the edge. This is really driven by a lot of customers who have built native IP in the public cloud, be it Amazon, be it Azure, who want to now bring some of those work loads closer to the data center or the edge. Now this comes to, how do I take my Azure work loads and bring it closer to the edge or my data center? Why is that a need? You know we have large customers, large customers, multi-national, they have 500,000 employees 90 locations worldwide who've built IP, or when I say IP applications natively in cloud. Suddenly for 500,000 employees in 90 locations, they're going ingress egress traffic to the cloud, public cloud, it's huge. How do I bring it closer to my data centers, right? And this is where taking Azure work loads, bringing them on prem, closer, solves that big problem for them. Now, how do I take that work loads and bring them closer, is that's where we landed in the VMware on Dell EMC infrastructure because this brings you closer to the data center, gives me either low latency, data governance, and control, as well as flexibility to bring these work loads back on prem, right? So the two tangents that you're driving, both your cloud growth and back to the edge, the second tangent of growth or explosion is cloud native work loads. You're able to bring them closer to your data center is purely the value proposition, right. >> Well, we heard so much about that on main stage this morning, about just how differently the modern workforce works, in terms of the number of devices they use, the different locations they are when they are doing the tasks of their job. Can you talk a little bit about the specifics in terms of customers you're working with, you don't need to name names, but just how you are enabling those people to be more productive, be more collaborative, and to get their jobs done. >> You know, we get feedback from customers in all industries, so Muneyb can share a few as well. We have large banks that are, you know, they're standardized their work loads on VMware today, as have many more organizations and they're looking for the flexibility to be able to move stuff to the cloud or move it back on premises and not have to reformat, not have to change their machine formats and just make it a little bit easy. They want the flexibility to be able to run applications in their bank branches in the cloud. But then they don't necessarily want to adopt a new machine format or a new standardized platform. That's really what the Azure announcement helps them do. Just like with Data Blue S can now move work loads seamlessly to Azure, use vCenter, use your other tools that you're familiar with today already to be able to provision your work loads. >> All right, Varun, wonder if we can drill into the stack a little bit here. I went to the Microsoft show last year and it was like, oh, WSSD is very different than Azure Stack, even if you look at the box, then it's very much the same. Underneath the covers, there was a lot of discussion of VxRail. We know how fast that's been growing. Can you, I believe there was two pieces to this, there's the VCF on VxRail and then, you know, help explain some of the differences. >> Yeah, so for the Dell Technologies cloud platform announcement, which is, as you said, VxRail HCI infrastructure with VMware Cloud Foundations tightly integrated. So that that the storage, compute, and networking capabilities off of VMware Cloud Foundation are all incorporated and taken advantage of within the HCI infrastructure. This is all about making things easier to consume, reducing the complexity for customers. When they get VxRail, they overwhelmingly tell us they want to use VMware Cloud Foundations to be able to manage and automate those work loads. So we're packaging the sup out of the box. So when customers get it, they have the cloud experience on premises without the complexity of having to deploy it because it's already integrated tightly. The engineering teams have actually worked together and then you can then, as we mentioned, extend those work loads to public cloud using the same tools, the same VMware Cloud Foundation tools. >> And you know, we built on Cloud Foundation for a while. I'm sure you followed us on the Cloud Foundation. And that has been, when, yes, we talk about consistent infrastructure, consistent operations in this hybrid cloud world. And what we really mean is that VMware Cloud Foundations stack. Right, so when we talk about VMC on AWS, is that Cloud Foundation stack running inside of Amazon. When we talk about, you know, our partnership with Azure is that VMware Cloud Foundation stack running on Azure. When we talk about these 4,000 partners, cloud certified, IBM, it is the Cloud Foundation stack. And the key components being the full stack, vSphere, vSAN, NSX, and there's a critical bar in Cloud Foundation call life cycle management. It's missed quite easily, right. The benefit of running a public cloud, they key three attributes you get is you get everything as a service, you get all your infrastructure as software, and the third part is you don't spend any time maintaining the inter-operability between your compute, network, storage. And that is a huge deal for costumers. They spent a lot of time just maintaining this inter-op. And VMware Cloud Foundation has this life cycle manager which solves that problem. That is key. >> Thank you for bringing that up, because, right, one of the big differences you talk about public cloud, go talk to your customer and say, hey, what version of Microsoft Azure are you running? And they'll laugh at you and say, like, well, Microsoft takes care of that for me. Well, when I differentiate and I say, Oh, okay, I want to run the same stack in my environment, how do I keep that up-to-date. We know that VMware customer, it's like, there's lot of incentives to get them there but oftentimes they're N minus one, two, or something like that. So how do we manage and make sure that it is more cloud-like and up-to-date? >> Yeah, absolutely, so there's two ways to do that. One of them is, because the VMware and Dell EMC teams are working on engineering closely together, we're going to have the latest version supported right out of the gate. So you have an update, you know that it's going to work on your hardware, or vice versa. So that's one level. And then with VMware Cloud on Dell EMC, we're also providing the ability to basically have hands-off management and have that infrastructure run in your data center or your edge locations, but at the same time not have to manage it. You leave that management to Dell Technologies and to VMware, to be able to manage that solution for you. So really, as Muneyb said, bringing that public cloud experience to your on-premise locations as well. >> And I think that's one of the big differentiators that's going to come, right? People want to get that consumption model, and they're trying to say, hey, how do I build my own data center, maintain it, but at the same time I want to rely on Dell and VMware to come and help us build it together, right. And the second part of the announcement was really, hey, VMware, Dell, on a Dell EMC, is that manage service offer. The demo you saw from June Yang was being able to have a consumption interface where you can kind of click of a button roll it back into a data center as well as an edge. 'Cause you have really literally very little IT skill sets where in the edge environment, and as edge compute needs become more prolific with 5G, IoT devices, you need that same kind of data governance model and data center model there as well. And that really the beauty of coming to VMware and Dell DMC, Dell Technologies' power, is to maintain that everywhere, right? >> I want to ask you about innovation. One of the things that was really striking during the keynote was the Bank of America executive saying I rely on Dell Technologies to be thinking about four steps ahead of me, even though I obviously have my own customers' needs that I need to be thinking of. I need Dell to be four steps ahead. So how are you, how are you getting in the heads of these obvious problems. >> I think it really comes down to listening to customers, right. As Dell Technologies, as VMware, we have the advantage of working with so many customers, like hundreds of thousands of customers around the world. We get to hear and listen and understand what are the cutting-edge things that customers are looking for. And then we can now take that back to customers like Bank of America, who may have thought about certain scenarios that we would learn from, but they might not have thought about other industries where things could be applicable to their industry. So that drives a lot of our innovation. We are very proud about the fact that we are customer-focused. Our innovation is really driven by listening to customers and having smart people just work on those problems. >> And, you know, customer voice is a big deal. Customer choice, that's why we're doing what we're doing with multiple cloud providers, right? And I think this is really a key to, if you just look at VMware's innovation, we're already talking about this multi-cloud world, where it's like, hey, you've got work loads natively, so how do you manage those? We're already ahead in thinking about Kubernetes with acquisition of Heptio. And you think about it, we've done this innovation in the cloud space, established this hybrid credibility, and we've launched it with Dell Technology now. We're already ahead in this multi-cloud operational model, we're already ahead in this Kubernetes evolution. We'll bring it back with the family and listen to the customers for choice because at the end of the day, we're here to solve customer problems, right? >> I think that's another dimension of choice that we offer, which is both traditional applications as well as applications of the future that will increasingly be customer container based. >> Yeah, I'm just wondering if you can expand on a little bit. You know, one of the things I said, VMware is great, it really simplified the environment. I go back 15 years ago. One of the things it did is, let me take my old application that was probably long in the tooth to begin with, my hardware's out of date, my operating system out of date, stick it in a VM and leave it for another five years. And the users of that are like, oh my gosh, I need an update. How do we get beyond that and allow this joint solution to be an accelerant for applications? >> Yeah, and I think that application is probably the crux of the business, right, we're-- >> It's a long pole in the tent for making change, but uh. >> And applications have evolved. This is actually the evolution journey of IT itself, is where there used to be support systems, now they become actually translate to business dollars, 'cause you know the first thing that your customer, often customer touches, is an application. And you can drive business value from it. And customers are thinking about these old applications and new applications, and they have to start thinking about where do I take my applications, where do they need to land, and then make the choice of what infrastructure is the best platform for it. So really you're going to flip the thing on, don't think infrastructure first and then retrospect apps to it, think app first and then make a choice on infrastructure based on your application need. And really, like you said, VMware kind of took the abstraction layer away from infrastructure and made sure that your VMs could from everywhere. We're taking the same for applications to say, doesn't matter if it's a VM-based, it's a cloud native, we'll give you the same consistent infrastructure and operations. >> Okay, Varun, last thing, could you just tell us of the announcements that are made. What's available today? What's coming later this year? >> Absolutely, so the Dell Technologies cloud platform that's based on VxRail and VMware Cloud Foundation is available now as an integrated solution. The VMware Cloud on Dell EMC, the fully managed offer, is available in the second half of this year. It's in beta right now and, as you saw, we have really good feedback from our customers. And then I think the Azure VMware Solutions offer will be available soon as well. >> All right, well, Varun and Muneyb, congratulations on the progress. We look forward to talking to the customers as they roll this out, and Rebecca and I will be back with lots more coverage here at Dell Technologies World 2019, wall-to-wall coverage, two sets, three days, tenth year of theCUBE at EMC and Dell World. I'm Stu Miniman and thanks so much for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)