(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to San Francisco, "theCUBE" is live, our day two coverage of VMware Explore 2022 continues. Lisa Martin with Dave Nicholson. Dave and I are pleased to welcome Jason Collier, principal member of technical staff at AMD to the program. Jason, it's great to have you. >> Thank you, it's great to be here. >> So what's going on at AMD? I hear you have some juicy stuff to talk about. >> Oh, we've got a ton of juicy stuff to talk about. Clearly the Project Monterey announcement was big for us, so we've got that to talk about. Another thing that I really wanted to talk about was a tool that we created and we call it, it's the VMware Architecture Migration Tool, call it VAMT for short. It's a tool that we created and we worked together with VMware and some of their professional services crew to actually develop this tool. And it is also an open source based tool. And really the primary purpose is to easily enable you to move from one CPU architecture to another CPU architecture, and do that in a cold migration fashion. >> So we're probably not talking about CPUs from Tandy, Radio Shack systems, likely this would be what we might refer to as other X86 systems. >> Other X86 systems is a good way to refer to it. >> So it's interesting timing for the development and the release of a tool like this, because in this sort of X86 universe, there are players who have been delayed in terms of delivering their next gen stuff. My understanding is AMD has been public with the idea that they're on track for by the end of the year, Genoa, next gen architecture. So can you imagine a situation where someone has an existing set of infrastructure and they're like, hey, you know what I want to get on board, the AMD train, is this something they can use from the VMware environment? >> Absolutely, and when you think about- >> Tell us exactly what that would look like, walk us through 100 servers, VMware, 1000 VMs, just to make the math easy. What do you do? How does it work? >> So one, there's several things that the tool can do, we actually went through, the design process was quite extensive on this. And we went through all of the planning phases that you need to go through to do these VM migrations. Now this has to be a cold migration, it's not a live migration. You can't do that between the CPU architectures. But what we do is you create a list of all of the virtual machines that you want to migrate. So we take this CSV file, we import this CSV file, and we ask for things like, okay, what's the name? Where do you want to migrate it to? So from one cluster to another, what do you want to migrate it to? What are the networks that you want to move it to? And then the storage platform. So we can move storage, it could either be shared storage, or we could move say from VSAN to VSAN, however you want to set it up. So it will do those storage migrations as well. And then what happens is it's actually going to go through, it's going to shut down the VM, it's going to take a snapshot, it is going to then basically move the compute and/or storage resources over. And once it does that, it's going to power 'em back up. And it's going to check, we've got some validation tools, where it's going to make sure VM Tools comes back up where everything is copacetic, it didn't blue screen or anything like that. And once it comes back up, then everything's good, it moves onto the next one. Now a couple of things that we've got feature wise, we built into it. You can parallelize these tasks. So you can say, how many of these machines do you want to do at any given time? So it could be, say 10 machines, 50 machines, 100 machines at a time, that you want to go through and do this move. Now, if it did blue screen, it will actually roll it back to that snapshot on the origin cluster. So that there is some protection on that. A couple other things that are actually in there are things like audit tracking. So we do full audit logging on this stuff, we take a snapshot, there's basically kind of an audit trail of what happens. There's also full logging, SYS logging, and then also we'll do email reporting. So you can say, run this and then shoot me a report when this is over. Now, one other cool thing is you can also actually define a change window. So I don't want to do this in the middle of the afternoon on a Tuesday. So I want to do this later at night, over the weekend, you can actually just queue this up, set it, schedule it, it'll run. You can also define how long you want that change window to be. And what it'll do, it'll do as many as it can, then it'll effectively stop, finish up, clean up the tasks and then send you a report on what all was successfully moved. >> Okay, I'm going to go down the rabbit hole a little bit on this, 'cause I think it's important. And if I say something incorrect, you correct me. >> No problem. >> In terms of my technical understanding. >> I got you. >> So you've got a VM, essentially a virtual machine typically will consist of an entire operating system within that virtual machine. So there's a construct that containerizes, if you will, the operating system, what is the difference, where is the difference in the instruction set? Where does it lie? Is it in the OS' interaction with the CPU or is it between the construct that is the sort of wrapper around the VM that is the difference? >> It's really primarily the OS, right? And we've not really had too many issues doing this and most of the time, what is going to happen, that OS is going to boot up, it's going to recognize the architecture that it's on, it's going to see the underlying architecture, and boot up. All the major operating systems that we test worked fine. I mean, typically they're going to work on all the X86 platforms. But there might be instruction sets that are kind of enabled in one architecture that may not be in another architecture. >> And you're looking for that during this process. >> Well usually the OS itself is going to kind of detect that. So if it pops up, the one thing that is kind of a caution that you need to look for. If you've got an application that's explicitly using an instruction set that's on one CPU vendor and not the other CPU vendor. That's the one thing where you're probably going to see some application differences. That said, it'll probably be compatible, but you may not get that instruction set advantage in it. >> But this tool remediates against that. >> Yeah, and what we do, we're actually using VM Tools itself to go through and validate a lot of those components. So we'll look and make sure VM Tools is enabled in the first place, on the source system. And then when it gets to the destination system, we also look at VM Tools to see what is and what is not enabled. >> Okay, I'm going to put you on the spot here. What's the zinger, where doesn't it work? You already said cold, we understand, you can schedule for cold migrations, that's not a zinger. What's the zinger, where doesn't it work? >> It doesn't work like, live migrations just don't work. >> No live, okay, okay, no live. What about something else? What's the oh, you've got that version, you've got that version of X86 architecture, it-won't work, anything? >> A majority of those cases work, where it would fail, where it's going to kick back and say, hey, VM Tools is not installed. So where you would see this is if you're running a virtual appliance from some vendor, like insert vendor here that say, got a firewall, or got something like that, and they don't have VM Tools enabled. It's going to fail it out of the gate, and say, hey, VM Tools is not on this, you might want to manually do it. >> But you can figure out how to fix that? >> You can figure out how to do that. You can also, and there's a flag in there, so in kind of the options that you give it, you say, ignore VM Tools, don't care, move it anyway. So if you've got less, some VMs that are in there, but they're not a priority VM, then it's going to migrate just fine. >> Got It. >> Can you elaborate a little bit on the joint development work that AMD and VMware are doing together and the value in it for customers? >> Yeah, so it's one of those things we worked with VMware to basically produce this open source tool. So we did a lot of the core component and design and we actually engaged VMware Professional Services. And a big shout out to Austin Browder. He helped us a ton in this project specifically. And we basically worked, we created this, kind of co-designed, what it was going to look like. And then jointly worked together on the coding, of pulling this thing together. And then after that, and this is actually posted up on VMware's public repos now in GitHub. So you can go to GitHub, you can go to the VMware samples code, and you can download this thing that we've created. And it's really built to help ease migrations from one architecture to another. So if you're looking for a big data center move and you got a bunch of VMs to move. I mean, even if it's same architecture to same architecture, it's definitely going to ease the pain of going through and doing a migration of, it's one thing when you're doing 10 machines, but when you're doing 10,000 virtual machines, that's a different story. It gets to be quite operationally inefficient. >> I lose track after three. >> Yeah. >> So I'm good for three, not four. >> I was going to ask you what your target market segment is here. Expand on that a little bit and talk to me about who you're working with and those organizations. >> So really this is targeted toward organizations that have large deployments in enterprise, but also I think this is a big play with channel partners as well. So folks out there in the channel that are doing these migrations and they do a lot of these, when you're thinking about the small and mid-size organizations, it's a great fit for that. Especially if they're kind of doing that upgrade, the lift and shift upgrade, from here's where you've been five to seven years on an architecture and you want to move to a new architecture. This is really going to help. And this is not a point and click GUI kind of thing. It's command line driven, it's using PowerShell, we're using PowerCLI to do the majority of this work. And for channel partners, this is an excellent opportunity to put the value and the value add and VAR, And there's a lot of opportunity for, I think, channel partners to really go and take this. And once again, being open source. We expect this to be extensible, we want the community to contribute and put back into this to basically help grow it and make it a more useful tool for doing these cold migrations between CPU architectures. >> Have you seen any in the last couple of years of dynamics, obviously across the world, any industries in particular that are really leading edge for what you guys are doing? >> Yeah, that's really, really interesting. I mean, we've seen it, it's honestly been a very horizontal problem, pretty much across all vertical markets. I mean, we've seen it in financial services, we've seen it in, honestly, pretty much across the board. Manufacturing, financial services, healthcare, we have seen kind of a strong interest in that. And then also we we've actually taken this and presented this to some of our channel partners as well. And there's been a lot of interest in it. I think we presented it to about 30 different channel partners, a couple of weeks back about this. And I got contact from 30 different channel partners that said they're interested in basically helping us work on it. >> Tagging on to Lisa's question, do you have visibility into the AMD thought process around the timing of your next gen release versus others that are competitors in the marketplace? How you might leverage that in terms of programs where partners are going out and saying, hey, perfect time, you need a refresh, perfect time to look at AMD, if you haven't looked at them recently. Do you have any insight into that in what's going on? I know you're focused on this area. But what are your thoughts on, well, what's the buzz? What's the buzz inside AMD on that? >> Well, when you look overall, if you look at the Gartner Hype Cycle, when VMware was being broadly adopted, when VMware was being broadly adopted, I'm going to be blunt, and I'm going to be honest right here, AMD didn't have a horse in the race. And the majority of those VMware deployments we see are not running on AMD. Now that said, there's an extreme interest in the fact that we've got these very cored in systems that are now coming up on, now you're at that five to seven year refresh window of pulling in new hardware. And we have extremely attractive hardware when it comes to running virtualized workloads. The test cluster that I'm running at home, I've got that five to seven year old gear, and I've got some of the, even just the Milan systems that we've got. And I've got three nodes of another architecture going onto AMD. And when I got these three nodes completely maxed to the number of VMs that I can run on 'em, I'm at a quarter of the capacity of what I'm putting on the new stuff. So what you get is, I mean, we worked the numbers, and it's definitely, it's like a 30% decrease in the amount of resources that you need. >> That's a compelling number. >> It's a compelling number. >> 5%, 10%, nobody's going to do anything for that. You talk 30%. >> 30%. It's meaningful, it's meaningful. Now you you're out of Austin, right? >> Yes. >> So first thing I thought of when you talk about running clusters in your home is the cost of electricity, but you're okay. >> I'm okay. >> You don't live here, you don't live here, you don't need to worry about that. >> I'm okay. >> Do you have a favorite customer example that you think really articulates the value of AMD when you're in customer conversations and they go, why AMD and you hit back with this? >> Yeah. Actually it's funny because I had a conversation like that last night, kind of random person I met later on in the evening. We were going through this discussion and they were facing exactly this problem. They had that five to seven year infrastructure. It's funny, because the guy was a gamer too, and he's like, man, I've always been a big AMD fan, I love the CPUs all the way since back in basically the Opterons and Athlons right. He's like, I've always loved the AMD systems, loved the graphics cards. And now with what we're doing with Ryzen and all that stuff. He's always been a big AMD fan. He's like, and I'm going through doing my infrastructure refresh. And I told him, I'm just like, well, hey, talk to your VAR and have 'em plug some AMD SKUs in there from the Dells, HPs and Lenovos. And then we've got this tool to basically help make that migration easier on you. And so once we had that discussion and it was great, then he swung by the booth today and I was able to just go over, hey, this is the tool, this is how you use it, here's all the info. Call me if you need any help. >> Yeah, when we were talking earlier, we learned that you were at Scale. So what are you liking about AMD? How does that relate? >> The funny thing is this is actually the first time in my career that I've actually had a job where I didn't work for myself. I've been doing venture backed startups the last 25 years and we've raised couple hundred million dollars worth of investment over the years. And so one, I figured, here I am going to AMD, a larger corporation. I'm just like, am I going to be able to make it a year? And I have been here longer than a year and I absolutely love it. The culture at AMD is amazing. We still have that really, I mean, almost it's like that underdog mentality within the organization. And the team that I'm working with is a phenomenal team. And it's actually, our EVP and our Corp VP, were actually my executive sponsors, we were at a prior company. They were one of my executive sponsors when I was at Scale. And so my now VP boss calls me up and says, hey, I'm putting a band together, are you interested? And I was kind of enjoying a semi-retirement lifestyle. And then I'm just like, man, because it's you, yes, I am interested. And the group that we're in, the work that we're doing, the way that we're really focusing on forward looking things that are affecting the data center, what's going to be the data center like three to five years from now. It's exciting, and I am having a blast, I'm having the time of my life. I absolutely love it. >> Well, that relationship and the trust that you will have with each other, that bleeds into the customer conversations, the partner conversations, the employee conversations, it's all inextricably linked. >> Yes it is. >> And we want to know, you said three to five years out, like what? Like what? Just general futurist stuff, where do you think this is going. >> Well, it's interesting. >> So moon collides with the earth in 2025, we already know that. >> So we dialed this back to the Pensando acquisition. When you look at the Pensando acquisition and you look at basically where data centers are today, but then you look at where basically the big hyperscalers are. You look at an AWS, you look at their architecture, you specifically wrap Nitro around that, that's a very different architecture than what's being run in the data center. And when you look at what Pensando does, that's a lot of starting to bring what these real clouds out there, what these big hyperscalers are running into the grasps of the data center. And so I think you're going to see a fundamental shift. The next 10 years are going to be exciting because the way you look at a data center now, when you think of what CPUs do, what shared storage, how the networking is all set up, it ain't going to look the same. >> Okay, so the competing vision with that, to play devil's advocate, would be DPUs are kind of expensive. Why don't we just use NICs, give 'em some more bandwidth, and use the cheapest stuff. That's the competing vision. >> That could be. >> Or the alternative vision, and I imagine everything else we've experienced in our careers, they will run in parallel paths, fit for function. >> Well, parallel paths always exist, right? Otherwise, 'cause you know how many times you've heard mainframe's dead, tape's dead, spinning disk is dead. None of 'em dead, right? The reality is you get to a point within an industry where it basically goes from instead of a growth curve like that, it goes to a growth curve of like that, it's pretty flat. So from a revenue growth perspective, I don't think you're going to see the revenue growth there. I think you're going to see the revenue growth in DPUs. And when you actually take, they may be expensive now, but you look at what Monterey's doing and you look at the way that those DPUs are getting integrated in at the OEM level. It's going to be a part of it. You're going to order your VxRail and VSAN style boxes, they're going to come with them. It's going to be an integrated component. Because when you start to offload things off the CPU, you've driven your overall utilization up. When you don't have to process NSX on basically the X86, you've just freed up cores and a considerable amount of them. And you've also moved that to where there's a more intelligent place for that pack to be processed right, out here on this edge. 'Cause you know what, that might not need to go into the host bus at all. So you have just alleviated any transfers over a PCI bus, over the PCI lanes, into DRAM, all of these components, when you're like, but all to come with, oh, that bit needs to be on this other machine. So now it's coming in and it's making that decision there. And then you take and integrate that into things like the Aruba Smart Switch, that's running the Pensando technology. So now you got top of rack that is already making those intelligent routing decisions on where packets really need to go. >> Jason, thank you so much for joining us. I know you guys could keep talking. >> No, I was going to say, you're going to have to come back. You're going to have to come back. >> We've just started to peel the layers of the onion, but we really appreciate you coming by the show, talking about what AMD and VMware are doing, what you're enabling customers to achieve. Sounds like there's a lot of tailwind behind you. That's awesome. >> Yeah. >> Great stuff, thank you. >> It's a great time to be at AMD, I can tell you that. >> Oh, that's good to hear, we like it. Well, thank you again for joining us, we appreciate it. For our guest and Dave Nicholson, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching "theCUBE Live" from San Francisco, VMware Explore 2022. We'll be back with our next guest in just a minute. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Okay, Chloe, thank you very much. Hey folks, in here in the Cloud City We with Danielle Royston. Great to see you. Watching you up on stage, I got to say, as the CEO of TelcoDR, leader and chief executive of that company. As well as a great visionary, you laid out the vision. It's hard to debate that. I mean, I think there's people who will say that vision, is like freedom, no one can debate it. It's not going to happen. >> Yeah, there's still a lot of debate in our industry about it. There's a lot of articles being written about it. I've referenced one about, you know, should we let the dragons into the castle? For me, I think it's super obvious. I think other industries are like "Duh, we've made the move." And Telco is still like, "Hmm, we're not sure." And so, am I a visionary, I don't know. I'm just sort of just Babe Ruth-ing it a little bit. I think that's where we're going. >> You know you do, you have a lot of content, podcasts, you write blogs, you do a lot of speaking. You brought it all together on stage, right? That has got to feel good. >> Yeah. >> You've got a body of work and it came together very nicely. How did you feel up there? >> Oh my God, it's absolutely nerve wrecking. I sort of feel like, you know, could you tell if my hands were shaking? Right, could you tell that my heart was racing? >> It's a good feeling. >> I don't know. >> Come on! >> I'll be honest, I'm happy it's over, I'm happy. I think I did a really great job and I'm really happy >> Yeah, you did a great job, I love the dragon reference-- >> Have it in the can. >> Fantastic, loved the Game of Thrones vibe there. It was cool-- >> Totally. >> One of the things I wanted pick up on, I thought it was very interesting and unique was the iPhone reference 14 years ago, because that really, to me, was a similar moment because that shifted the smartphone. A computer that happened to make phone calls. And then we all knew who was the leader at that time, Nokia, Blackberry with the phones, and they became toast. That ushered in a whole another era of change, wealth creation, innovation, new things. >> Yeah. Well, up until that moment, carriers had been designing the phones themselves. They were branded with their logos. And so Steve Jobs fought for the design of the iPhone. He designed it with the consumer, with the user in mind. But I think what it really, I mean, it's such a big pivotal moment in our industry because it singled the end of voice revenue and ushered in the era of data. But it also introduced the OTT players, right? That came in through the apps and started a siphon approved from the carriers. And this is like, it's a pivotal moment in the industry, like, changed the industry forever. >> It's a step function, it was a step function change, it's obvious, everyone knew it. But what's interesting is that we were riffing yesterday about O-RAN and Android. So you have iPhone, but Android became a very successful open source project that changed the landscape of the handset. Some are saying that that kind of phenomenon is coming here. Into Telco with software, kind of like an Android model where that'll come in. What's your thoughts on that, reaction to that? >> Yeah, well the dis-aggregation of the hardware, right? We're in the iconic Erickson booth, right? They get most of their revenue from RAN, from Radio Access Networks. And now with the introduction of Open RAN, right? With 50% less CapEx, 40% less OPEX, you know, I think it's easiest for Greenfield operators like Dish, that are building a brand new network. But just this month, Vodafone announced they're going to build the world's largest Open RAN network. Change is happening and the big operators are starting to adopt Open RAN in a real big way. >> So to me, riding the dragon means taking the advantage of new opportunities on top of that dragon. Developing apps like the iPhone did. And you mentioned Android, they got it right. Remember the Windows Phone, right? They tried to take Windows and shove it to the phone-- >> Barely. >> It was a kin phone too. >> I try to delete it from my, look here, beep! >> I'm going to take this old world app and I'm going to shove it into the new world, and guess what, it failed. So if the Telco is trying to do the same thing here, it will fail, but if they start building 5G apps in the cloud and pick the cloud native and think about the consumer, isn't really that the opportunity that you're talking about? >> Well, I think it is, absolutely. And I think it's a wake up call for the vendors in our space, right? And I'm certainly trying to become a vendor with Totogi. I'm really pushing my idea. But you can't take, using your Windows example on the Windows Phone, you can't take a Windows app and stuff it onto a phone and you can't take these old school applications that were written 20 years ago and just stuff them into the cloud, right? Cloud is not a place, it's a way to design applications and it all needs to be rewritten and let's go write, rewrite it. >> It's not a destination as we always say. Let's take a step back on the keynote 'cause I know we just did a couple of highlights there, wasn't the whole thing. We were watching it, by the way, we thought you did a great job, you were very cool and calm under pressure. But take us through the core ideas in the keynote. Break down the core elements of what the talk was about. >> Yeah, I think the headline really is, you know, just like there were good and bad things about the iPhone, right? It killed voice, but introduced data and all these other things. There's good and bad things about the public cloud, right? It's not going to be smooth sailing, no downsides. And so I acknowledge that, even though I'm the self appointed queen, you know? This self appointed evangelist. And so, I think that if you completely ignore the public cloud, try to stick your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist, I think there's nothing but downsides for Telcos. And so I think you need to learn how to maximize the advantage there, ride he dragon, like spew some fire and, you know, get some speed and height, and then you can double your ARPU. But I think, going from there, so the next three, I was trying to give examples of what I meant by that, of why it's a double-edged sword, why it's two sides of the coin. And I think there's three areas, which is the enterprise, the network, and a relationship with subscribers. And so that really what the talk, that's what the talk is about >> The three main pillars. >> Yeah, yeah! >> Future, work, enterprise, transition, Open RAN. >> The network and then the relationship with the subscribers. >> Those are the structural elements you see. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> What's the most important one you think, right now, that people are focused on? >> I mean, I think the first one, with work, that's an easy one to do, because there's not too much downside, right? I think we all learned that we could work productively from home. The reason public cloud matter there is because we had tools like Zoom and G Suite and we didn't need to be, I mean, imagine if that this had happened even 20 years ago, right? Broadband at the home wasn't ready, the tools weren't ready. I mean, it would have been, I mean a bigger disaster than it was, right? And so this is an opportunity to sort of ride this work from home wave that a lot of CEOs are saying, we're not coming back or we're going to have smaller offices. And all of those employees need fiber to their home. They need 5G at their home. I mean, if I'm a head of enterprise in a Telco, I am shifting my 5G message from like random applications or whatever, to be like, how are you getting big pipes to the home so your workers can be productive there? And that, I don't hear Telco's talking about that and that's a really big idea. >> You know, you say it's a no brainer, but it's interesting you had your buildings crumbling, which was great, very nice effect in the talk. I heard a executive, Wall Street executive the other day, talking about how, "My people will be back in the office. "I'm going to mandate vaccinations, they're going to be back "in the office, you work for me. "Even though it's an employee friendly environment "right now, I don't care". And I was shocked. I go, okay, this is just an old guy. But, and it's not just the fact that it's an old guy, old guard doing that because I take two examples of old guys, Michael Dell and Frank Slootman. >> Yeah. >> Right, Michael Dell, you know, hundred billion dollar company, Frank Slootman, hottest, you know, software company. Both of them, sort of agree. It's a no brainer. >> Yeah. >> Why should I spend all this money on buildings? And my people are going to be more productive. They love it, so. Why fight the fashion? >> Well, I think the office and I can talk about this for a long time and I know we don't have that much time, but on offices, it's a way to see when did you come in and when did you leave, and look over your shoulder and what we're working on. And that's what offices are for. Now, we tell ourselves it's about collaboration and all this other stuff. And you know, these guys are saying, "come back to the office." It's because they don't have an answer on how to manage productivity. What are you working on? Are you off, are you authentically working 40 hours a week? I want to see, I know if at least you're here, you're here. Now, you might be playing, you know, Minesweeper. You might be playing Minesweeper on your computer, but at least you were, your butt was at your computer. So yeah, I think this is a pivotal moment in work. I think Telcos could push it, to work from home. We'll get you the pipes, we'll get you the cloud-based tools to help manage productivity, to change in work style. >> Yeah, and we've covered this in theCube many times, about how software is going to enable this virtual first model, no one's actually built software for virtual first. I think that's going to happen. Again, back to your team software, but I want to ask you about software defined infrastructure. You mentioned O-RAN, and as software eats the world and eats infrastructure, you still need infrastructure. So, talk about the relationship of how you see O-RAN competing and winning with the balance of software versus the commodity argument. >> Yeah, and I think this is really where people get scared in Telco. I mean, authentically nervous, right. Where you're like, okay, really the public cloud is at that network edge, right? We're really going to like, who are we? It's an identity crisis. We're not the towers anymore. We're renting space, right? We're now dis-aggregating the network, putting the edge cloud right there and it's AWS or Google. Who are we, what do we do, are we networks? Are we a tech company? Right, and so I'm like, guys, you are your subscribers and you don't focus on that. I mean, it's kind of like a last thought. >> So you're like a therapist then too, not just an evangelist. >> I'm a little bit of a therapist. >> Okay, lay down on the couch, Telco. >> Let's talk about what your problems are. (laughs) >> They have tower issues. >> All seriousness, no but, the tower is changing is backhauling. Look at direct connects for instance. The rise of direct and killed the exchanges. I mean, broadband, backhaul, last mile, >> Yeah. >> Completely, still issues, >> Yeah. >> But it's going to software and so that's there. The other thing I want to get to quickly, I know we don't have a lot of time, is the love relationship you talk about with subscribers. We had Peter Adderton on, from a Boost Mobile, formerly Boost Mobile, earlier. He was saying, if you don't have a focus on the customer, then you're just selling minutes and that's it. >> Yeah. >> And his point was, they don't really care. >> Yeah. Let's talk about organizational energy, right? How much energy is contained within any organization, not just Telco, but any organization. To some of your people time is the hours they work per week. And then you think of that as a sack on how you're allocating your time and spending your time, right? And so I think they spend 50% of their time, maybe more, fighting servers, machines, the network, right? And having all these battles. How much of that organizational energy is dedicated to driving great subscriber experiences? And it just shrunk, right? And I think that's where the public cloud can really help them. Like ride the dragon. Let the dragon deal with some of this underlying stuff. So that you can ride a dragon, survey the land, focus on your subscriber and back to the software. Use software, just like the OTT players are doing. They are taking away your ARPU. They're siphoning your ARPU, 'cause they're providing a better customer experience. You need to compete on that dimension. Not the network, not the three Telcos in the country. You're competing again, WhatsApp, Apple, Amazon, Facebook. And you spent how much of your organizational energy to focus on that? Very small. >> And that's where digital platforms roll by, it uses the word platform, why? Because everybody wants to be a platform. Why do you want to be a platform? Because I want to be like Amazon, they're a platform. And you think about Netflix, right? It's not, you know, you don't think about Netflix UK or Netflix Spain, right? >> It's global. >> There's one Netflix >> Yeah, yeah. >> You don't think about their marketing department or their sales department or their customer service, you think about the app. >> Yeah. >> You know. One interface. And that's what digital platforms allow you to do. And granted, there's a lot of public policy to deal with, but if you're shooting satellites up in space, >> Yeah. >> You know, now, you own that space, right, global network. >> And what makes Netflix so good, I think, is that it knows you, right? It knows what you're watching and recommends things, and you're like, "Oh, I would like that, that's great." Who knows more about you than your mobile phone? Carry it everywhere you go, right? What you're watching, what you're doing, who you're calling, what time did you wake up? And right now all of that data we talked about a couple of days ago, it's trapped in siloed old systems. And like why do people think Google knows so much about you? Telco knows about you. And to start to use that to drive a great experience. >> And you've got a great relationship with Netflix. The relationship we have with our our carrier is to your admin, "can you call these guys? "I don't know, I lost the password, I can't get in". >> Right. >> It's like-- >> Or you get SIM hacked-- >> I don't have an hour and a half to call your call center 'cause you don't have a chat bot, right. >> I don't have time. >> Chat bot, right. I can't even do the chat bot because my problem is, you're like, I got to talk to someone. All of their systems are built with the intention of a human being on the other side, and there's all this awesome chat bot AI that works. >> Yeah. >> Set it free. >> Yeah, yeah, right. You almost rather go to the dentist, then calling your carrier. >> Well, we're going to wrap things up here on the keynote review. Did you achieve what you wanted to achieve? I mean, controversy, bold vision, leadership, also that came across, but people they know who you are now. You're out there and that's great news. >> Yeah. I think I rocked the Telco universe and I'm really, that was my goal, and I think I accomplish it so, very excited. >> Well, we love having you on theCUBE. It's great to have great conversations, not only are you dynamic and smart, you're causing a lot of controversy, in a good way and getting, waking people up. >> Making people talk, that's a start. >> And I think, the conversations are there. People are talking and having relationships on the ecosystem open, it's all there. Danielle Royston, you are a digital revolution, DR. Telco DR, thanks for coming to theCube. >> Thank you so much, always fun. >> Good to see you. >> Thanks. >> Of course, back to the Cloud City studios. Adam is going to take it from here and continue on day three of theCube. Adam in studio, thanks for having us and take it from here.

>>Good afternoon and welcome back to our audience here in Asia pacific This is Sandeep again uh from my home studio in Singapore, I hope you found the session to be insightful. I thought it was a key takeaway in terms of how you know the the world is going through a massive transformation, driven by underpinning the workload optimized solutions around up by round of security, 3 60 degree security. As Neil Mcdonald talked about underpinned by the scale, you know, whether you're on exa scale, compute public cloud or on the edge and that's kind of underpinning the digital transformation that our customers are going to go through. I have two special guests with me. Uh let me just quickly introduce them Santos restaurant martin who uh is the Managing director for intel in A P. K. And Dorinda Kapoor, Managing Director for HB Initial pacific So, good afternoon, both you gentlemen. >>Good afternoon. >>So Santos. My first question is to you, first of all, a comment, you know, the passion at which uh, pad Kill Singer talked through the four superpowers. That was amazing. You know, I could see that passion comes through the screen. You know, I think everybody in the audience could relate with that. We are like, you know, as you know, on the words of the launch, the gentle plus by power, but it's isolate processor from intel, what are you seeing and what do our customers should expect improvements, especially with regard to the business outcomes. >>Yeah, So first of all, thank you so much for having me in this session and, and as you said, Sandeep, I mean, you could really see how energized we are. And you heard that from pad as well. Uh, so we launched the third gen, intel, Xeon processors or isolate, you know about a couple of weeks ago and I'm sure, you know, there's lots of benefits that you get in these new products. But I thought what I'll do is I'll try and summarize them in three key buckets. The first one is about the performance benefits that these new products bring in. The 2nd 1 is the value of platforms and I think the last pieces about the partnerships and how it makes deployment really easy and simple for our customers. Let me start with the first one which is about performance and the and the big jump that we're staying. It's about a 46% performance, increased generation over generation. It's flexible, it's optimized performance from the edge to the cloud where you would see about 1.5 to 1.7 X improvements on key war clouds like the cloud five G I O D HPC and AI that are so critical all around us. It's probably the only data center processor that has built in A I acceleration that helps with faster analytics. It's got security optimist on intel SGX that basically gives you a secure on cliff when when sensitive data is getting transacted and it also has crypto acceleration that reduces any performance impact because of the pervasive encryption that we have all around us. Now The second key benefit is about platform and if you remember when we launch sky lake in 2017, we laid out a strategy that said that we are here to help customers >>move, >>store and process data. So it's not just the CPU that we announced with the third genitals, jOHn Announcements. We also announce products like the obtained persistent memory, 200 cds That gives you about a 32 higher memory bandwidth and six terabytes of memory capacity on stock. It the obtain S S D S, the intel internet, 800 cities adapter that gives you about 200 Gbps per port, which means you can move data much more faster and you have the intellectual X F P G s that gives you about a double the better fabric performance for what? Which means if there's key workloads that you want to go back and offloaded to a to a steak or a specific uh CPU then you have the F P G s that can really help you there Now. What does the platform do for our customers? It helps them build higher application and system level performance that they can all benefit from the last b which is the partnerships area is a critical one because we've had decades of experience of solution delivery with a broad ecosystem and with partners like HP and we build elements like the Intel select solution and the market ready solution that makes it so much more easier for our customers to deploy with Over 50 million Xeon scalable processes that is shipped around the world. A billion Xeon cores that are powering the cloud since 2013 customers have really a proven solution that they can work with. So in summary, I want you to remember the three key piece that can really >>help you be >>successful with these new products, the performance uplifted, you get generation over generation, the platform benefits. So it's not just the CPU but it's things around that that makes the system and the application work way better. And then the partnerships that give you peace of mind because you can go deploy proven solutions that you can go and implement in your organization and serve your customers better. >>Thanks. Thanks thanks and Tosha for clearly outlining, you know, the three PS and kind of really resonates well. Um, so let me just uh turn over you know, to Dorinda there in the hot, you know, there's a lot of new solutions, you're our new treaties that santos talked about security, you get a lot of performance benefits and yet our customers have to go through a massive amount of change from a digital transformation perspective in order that they take all the advantages in state competitive. We're using HP Iran addressing the needs for the challenges of our customers and how we really helping them accelerate their transformation journey. >>Yeah, sure. Sandeep, thanks a lot for the question. And you are right. Most of the businesses actually need to go uh digital transformation in order to stay relevant in the current times. And in fact actually COVID-19 has further accelerated the pace of digital transformation for uh most of our customers. And actually the digital transformation is all about delivering differentiated experiences and outcomes at the age by converting data collected from multiple different sources to insights and actions. So we actually an HP believe that enterprise of the future is going to be eight centric data driven and cloud enabled And with our strategy of providing H2 cloud platform and having a complete portfolio of uh software, networking computer and the storage solutions both at the age and court uh to of course collect, transmit secure, analyze and store data. I believe we are in the best position to help our customers start and execute on their transformation journey. Now reality is various enterprises are at different stages of their transformation journey. You know, uh we in HP are able to help our customers who are at the early stage or just starting the transformation journey to to help build their transformation broad maps with the help of our advisory teams and uh after that helped them to execute on the same with our professional services team. While for the customers who are already midway in the transformation journey, we have been helping them to differentiate themselves by delivering workload optimized solutions which provide latency, flexibility and performance. They need to turn data into insights and innovations to help their business. Now, speaking of the workload optimized solutions, HP has actually doubled down in this area with the help of our partners like Intel, which powers our latest Gentlemen plus platform. This brings more compute power, memory and storage capacity which our customers need as they process more data and solve more complex challenges within their business. >>Thank you. Thanks. And er in there I think that's really insightful. Hopefully you know our customer base, I will start joined in here, can hear that and take advantage of you know, how HP is helping you know, fast track the exploration. I come back to you something you don't like during the talk about expanding capacities and we saw news about you know Intel invest $20 billion dollars or so, something like that in terms of you know, adding capacities or manufacturing. So I'd like to hear from your perspective, you know how this investments which intel is putting is a kind of a game changer, how you're shaping the industry as we move forward. >>Yeah, I mean as we all know, I think there's accelerated demand for semiconductors across the world digitization especially in an environment that we're that we're going through has really made computing pervasive and it's it's becoming a foundation of every industry and our society, the world just needs more semiconductors. Intel is in a unique position to rise to that occasion and meet the growing demand for semiconductors given our advanced manufacturing scale that we have. So the intel foundry services and the that you mentioned is is part of the Intel's new I. D. M. Torrado strategy that Bad announced which is a differentiated winning formula that will really deliver the new era of innovation, manufacturing and product leadership. We will expand our manufacturing capacity as you mentioned with that 20 billion investments and building to fabs in Arizona. But there's more to come in the year ahead and these fans will support the expanding requirements of our current products and also provide committed capacity for our foundry customers. Our foundry customers will also be able to leverage our leading edge process, the treaty packaging technology, a world class I. P. Portfolio. So >>I'm really really >>excited. I think it's a truly exciting time for our industry. The world requires more semiconductors and Intel is stepping in to help build the same. >>Fantastic, fantastic. Thank you. Some potion is really heartening to know and we really cherish the long partnership, HP and Intel have together. I look forward that you know with this gentleman plus launch and the partnership going forward. You know, we have only motivation and work together. Really appreciate your taking the time and joining and thank you very much for joining us. >>Thank you. >>Thanks. >>Okay, so with that I will move on to our second segment and in white, another special guest and this is Pete Chambers who is the managing director for A N D N A P K. Good afternoon Pete. You can hear us Well >>I can. Thank you. Sandy, Great to be >>here. Good and thanks for joining me. Um I thought I just opened up, you know, like a comment around the 19 world Records uh, am D. N. H. We have together and it's a kind of a testament to the joint working model and relationship and the collaboration. And so again, really thank you for the partnership. We have any change. Uh, let me just quickly get to the first question. You know, when it comes to my mind listening over to what Antonio and Liza were discussing, you know, they're talking about there's a huge amount of flow of data. You know, the technology and the compute needs to be closer to where the data is being generated and how is A. M. D. You know, helping leverage some of those technologies to bring feature and benefits and driving outcome for customers here in asia. >>Yeah, as lisa mentioned, we're now in a high performance computing mega cycle driven by cloud computing, digital transformation five DNA. Which means that everyone needs and wants more computer IDC predicts that by 20 23/65 percent of the impact GDP will be digitized. So there's an inflection coming with digital transformation at the fall, businesses are ever increasingly looking for trusted partners like HP and HP and and to help them address and adapt to these complex emerging technologies while keeping their IT infrastructure highly efficient, you know, and is helping enable this transformation by bringing leadership performance such as high court densities, high PC and increased I. O. But at the same time offering the best efficiency and performance for what all third gen Epic. CPU support 100 and 28 lanes of superfast PC for connectivity to four terabytes of memory and multiple layers of security. You know, we've heard from our customers that security continues to be a key consideration, you know? And he continues to listen. And with third gen, Epic, we're providing a multitude of security features such as secure root of trust at the bios level which we work very closely with HP on secure encrypted virtualization, secure memory encryption and secure nested paging to really giving the customers confidence when designing Epic. We look very closely at the key workloads that our customers will be looking to enable. And we've designed Epic from the ground up to deliver superior experience. So high performance computing is growing in this region and our leadership per socket core density of up to 64 cause along with leading IO and high memory bandwidth provides a compelling solution to help solve customers most complex computational problems faster. New HP Apollo 6500 and 10 systems featuring third gen, Epic are also optimist for artificial intelligence capabilities to improve training and increased accuracy and results. And we also now support up to eight and instinct accelerators. In each of these systems, hyper converged infrastructure continues to gain momentum in today's modern data center and our superior core density helps deliver more VMS per CPU supported by a multitude of security virtualization features to provide peace of mind and works very closely with industry leaders in HD like HP but also Nutanix and VM ware to help simplify the customers infrastructure. And in recent times we've seen video. I have a resurgence as companies have looked to empower their remote employee remote employees. Third gen, Epic enables more video sessions per CPU providing a more cost optimized solution, simply put Epics higher core density per CPU means customers need fewer service. That means less space required, lower power and cooling expenditure and as a result, a tangibly lower total cost of ownership add to this the fact, as you mentioned that Andy Epic with HP of 19 world records across virtualization, energy efficiency, decision support, database workloads, etc. And service side java. And it all adds up to a very strong value proposition to encourage Cdos to embark on their next upgrade cycle with HP and Epic >>Interstate. Thank you Peter and really quite insightful. And I've just done that question over to Narendra Pete talked about great new technologies, new solution, new areas that are going to benefit from these technology enhancements at the same time. You know, if I'm a customer, I look at every time we talk about technology, you know, you need to invest and where is you know, the bigger concern for customers always wears this money will come from. So I want to uh, you know, uh, the if you share your insights, how is actually helping customers to be able to implement these technology solutions, giving them a financial flexibility so that they can drive business outcomes. >>Yes, and the very important point, you know, from how HP is able to help our customers from their transformation. Now, reality is that most of the traditional enterprises are being challenged by this new digital bond businesses who have no doubt of funding and very low expectation of profitability. But in reality, majority of the capital of these traditional enterprises has uh tied up in their existing businesses as they do need to keep current operations running while starting their digital transformation at the same time. This of course creates real challenges and funding their transformation. Now with HP, with our Green Lake Cloud services, we are able to help customers fund their transformation journey. Were instead of buying up front, customers pay only for what they consume as the scale. We are not only able to offer flexible consumption model for new investments but are also able to help our customers, you know, for monetize their capital, which is tied up in the old ICT infrastructure because we can buy back that old infrastructure and convert that into conception of frank. So while customers can continue to use those assets to run their current business and reality is HIV is the leader in the this as a service space and probably the only vendor to be able to offer as a service offering for all of our portfolio. Uh, if you look at the ideas prediction, 70 of the applications are not ready for public cloud and will continue to run in private environments in addition. And everybody talked about the beef for a I and you know, HPC as well as the edge and more and more workloads are actually moving to the edge where the public cloud will have for less and less a role to play. But when you look at the customers, they are more and more looking for a cloud, like business model for all the workloads, uh, that they're running outside the public cloud. Now, with our being like offering, we are able to take away all the complexity from customers, allowing them to run the workloads wherever they want. That means that the edge in the data center or in the cloud and consume in the way they want. In other words, we're able to provide cloud, like experience anytime, anywhere to our customers. And of course, all these Green Lake offerings are powered by our latest compute capabilities that HP has to offer. >>Thank you. Thank you, surrender. That's really, really, very insightful. I have a minute or two, so let me try to squeeze another question from your feet, you know, MD is just now introduced the third generation of epics and congratulations on that. How are you seeing that? Excellent. Helping you accelerate in this growth, in the impact? Uh, you know, the geography as as such. >>Sure, great question. And as I mentioned, you know, third gen Epic with me and and once again delivers industry leading solutions, bending the curve on performance efficiency and TCO helping more than ever to deliver along with HP the right technologies for today and tomorrow. You know, in the service space, it's not just about what you can offer today. You need to be able to predictably deliver innovation over the long term. And we are committed to doing just that, you know, and strategy is to focus on the customer. We continue to see strong growth both globally and in a pack in HPC cloud and Web tech manufacturing, Fc telco and public and government sectors are growth plan is focused on getting closer to our customers directly, engaging with HP and our partners and the end customer to help guide them on the best solution and assist them in solving their computing pain points cost effectively. A recent example of this is our partnership with palsy supercomputing center in Australia, where HP and M. D will be helping to provide some 200,000 cause across 1600 nodes and over 750 radio on instinct accelerators empowering scientists to solve today's most challenging problems. We have doubled ourselves and F8 teams in the region over the past year and will continue to invest in additional customer facing sales and technical people through 2021, you know, and has worked very closely with HP to co design and co developed the best technologies for our customers needs. We joined forces over seven years ago to prepare for the first generation of Epic at launch and you fast forward to today and it's great to see that HP now has a very broad range of Andy Epic servers spanning from the edge two extra scale. So we are truly excited about what we can offer the market in partnership with HP and feel that we offer a very strong foundation of differentiation for our channel partners to address their customers need to accelerate accelerate their digital transformation. Thank you. Sandy, >>thank you. Thanks Peter. And really it's been amazing partnering with the NDP here and thanks for your sponsorship on that. And together we want to work with you to create another 19 world records right from here in the issue. Absolutely. So with that we are coming to the end of the event. Really thanks for coming pete and to our audience here because the pig is being a great a couple of hours. I hope you all found these sessions very, very insightful. You heard from our worldwide experts as to where, you know, divorce, moving in terms of the transformation, what your hp is bringing to our compute workload optimized solutions which are going to go from regardless of what scale of computing you're using and wrapped around 3 60 security and then offer truly as a service experience. But before you drop off, I would like to request you to please scan the QR code you see on your screen and fill in the feedback form we have, you know, lucky draw for some $50 worth of vultures for the five lucky winners today. So please click up your phone and, you know, spend a minute or two and give us a feedback and thank you very much again for this wonderful day. And I wish everybody a great day. Thank you.

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: From around the globe. It's theCUBE, with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020, sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >> Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of AWS reinvent 2020, the virtual edition. I'm Lisa Martin. I have a couple of guests joining me next to talk about AWS and Druva. From Druva, Chris White is here, the chief revenue officer. Hey Chris, nice to have you on the program. >> Excellent, thanks Lisa. Excited to be here. >> And from AWS Sabina Joseph joins us. She is the general manager of the Americas technology partners. Sabina, welcome. >> Thank you, Lisa. >> So looking forward to talking to you guys unfortunately, we can't be together in a very loud space in Las Vegas, so this will have to do but I'm excited to be able to talk to you guys today. So Chris, we're going to start with you, Druva and AWS have a longstanding partnership. Talk to us about that and some of the evolution that's going on there. >> Absolutely, yeah. we certainly have, we had a great long-term partnership. I'm excited to talk to everybody about it today and be here with Sabina and you Lisa as well. So, we actually re architect our entire environment on AWS, 100% on AWS back in 2013. That enables us to not only innovate back in 2013, but continue to innovate today and in the future, right. It gives us flexibility on a 100% platform to bring that to our customers, to our partners, and to the market out there, right? In doing so, we're delivering on data protection, disaster recovery, e-discovery, and ransomware protection, right? All of that's being leveraged on the AWS platform as I said, and that allows uniqueness from a standpoint of resiliency, protection, flexibility, and really future-proofing the environment, not only today, but in the future. And over this time AWS has been an outstanding partner for Druva. >> Excellent Chris, thank you. Sabina, you lead the America's technology partners as we mentioned, Druva is an AWS advanced technology partner. Talk to us from through AWS lens on the Druva AWS partnership and from your perspective as well. >> Sure, Lisa. So I've had the privilege of working with Druva since 2014 and it has been an amazing journey over the last six and a half years. You know, overall, when we work with partners on technical solutions, we have to talk in a better architect, their solution for AWS, but also take their feedback on our features and capabilities that our mutual customers want to see. So for example, Druva has actually provided feedback to AWS on performance, usability, enhancements, security, posture and suggestions on additional features and functionality that we could have on AWS snowball edge, AWS dynamoDB and other services in fact. And in the same way, we provide feedback to Druva, we provide recommendations and it really is a unique process of exposing our partners to AWS best practices. When customers use Druva, they are benefiting from the AWS recommended best practices for data durability, security and compliance. And our engineering teams work very closely together. We collaborate, we have regular meetings, and that really sets the foundation for a very strong solution for our mutual customers. >> So it sounds very symbiotic. And as you talked about that engineering collaboration and the collaboration across all levels. So now let's talk about some of the things that you're helping customers to do as we are all navigating a very different environment this year. Chris, talk to us about how Druva is helping customers navigate some of those big challenges you talked about ransomware for example, this massive pivot to remote workforce. Chris (mumbles) got going on there. >> Yeah, absolutely. So the, one of the things that we've seen consistently, right, it's been customers are looking for simplicity. Customers are looking for cost-effective solutions, and then you couple that with the ability to do that all on a single platform, that's what the combination of Druva and AWS does together, right? And as you mentioned, Lisa, you've got work from home. That's increased right with the unfortunate events going across the globe over the last almost 12 months now, nine months now. Increased ransomware that threats, right? The bad actors tend to take advantage of these situations unfortunately, and you've got to be working with partners like AWS like Druva, coming together, to build that barrier against the bad actors out there. So, right. We've got double layer of protection based on the partnership with AWS. And then if you look at the rising concerns around governance, right? The complexity of government, if you look at Japan adding some increased complexity to governance, you look at what's going on across, but across the globe across the pond with GDPR, number of different areas around compliance and governance that allows us to better report upon that. We built the right solution to support the migration of these customers. And everything I just talked about is just accelerated the need for folks to migrate to the cloud, migrate to AWS, migrate to leveraging, through the solutions. And there's no better time to partner with Druva and AWS, just because of that. >> Something we're all talking about. And every key segment we're doing, this acceleration of digital transformation and customers really having to make quick decisions and pivot their businesses over and over again to get from survival to thriving mode. Sabina talk to us about how Druva and AWS align on key customer use cases especially in these turbulent times. >> Yeah, so, for us as you said Lisa, right. When we start working with partners, we really focus on making sure that we are aligned on those customer use cases. And from the very first discussions, we want to ensure that feedback mechanisms are in place to help us understand and improve the services and the solutions. Chris has, he mentioned migrations, right? And we have customers who are migrating their applications to AWS and really want to move the data into the cloud. And you know what? This is not a simple problem because there's large amounts of data. And the customer has limited bandwidth Druva of course as they have always been, is an early adopter of AWS snowball edge and has worked closely with us to provide a solution where customers can just order a snowball edge directly from AWS. It gets shipped to them, they turn it on, they connect it to the network, and just start backing up their data to the snowball edge. And then once they are done, they can just pack it up, ship it back. And then all of this data gets loaded into the Druva solution on AWS. And then you also, those customers who are running applications locally on AWS Outposts, Druva was once again, an early adopter. In fact, last reinvent, they actually tested out AWS Outposts and they were one of the first launch partners. Once again, further expanding the data protection options they provide to our mutual customers. >> Well, as that landscape changes so dramatically it's imperative that customers have data center workloads, AWS workloads, cloud workloads, endpoints, protected especially as people scattered, right, in the last few months. And also, as we talked about the ransomware rise, Chris, I saw on Druva's website, one ransomware attack every 11 seconds. And so, now you've got to be able to help customers recover and have that resiliency, right. Cause it's not about, are we going to get hit? It's a matter of when, how does Druva help facilitate that resiliency? >> Yeah, now that's a great point Lisa. and as you look at our joint customer base, we've got thousands of joint customers together and we continue to see positive business impact because of that. And it's to your point, it's not if it's when you get hit and it's ultimately you've got to be prepared to recover in order to do that. And based on the security levels that we jointly have, based on our architecture and also the benefits of the architecture within AWS, we've got a double layer of defense up there that most companies just can't offer today. So, if we look at that from an example standpoint, right, transitioning offer specific use case of ransomware but really look at a cast media companies, right? One of the largest media companies out there across the globe, 400 radio stations, 800 TV stations, over a hundred thousand podcasts, over 4,000 or 5,000 streams happening on an annual basis, very active and candidly very public, which freaks the target. They really came to us for three key things, right? And they looked for reduced complexity, really reducing their workload internally from a backup and recovery standpoint, really to simplify that backup environment. And they started with Druva, really focused on the end points. How do we protect and manage the end points from a data protection standpoint, ultimately, the cost savings that they saw, the efficiency they saw, they ended up moving on and doing key workloads, right? So data protection, data center workloads that they were backing up and protecting. This all came from a great partnership and relationship from AWS as well. And as we continued to simplify that environment, it allowed them to expand their partnership with AWS. So not only was it a win for the customer, we helped solve those business problems for them. Ultimately, they got a (mumbles) benefit from both Druva and AWS and that partnership. So, we continue to see that partnership accelerate and evolve to go really look at the entire platform and where we can help them, in addition to AWS services that they're offering. >> And that was... It sounds like them going to cloud data production, was that an acceleration of their cloud strategy that they then had to accelerate even further during the last nine months, Chris? >> Yeah, well, the good news for cast is that at least from a backup and recovery standpoint, they've been ahead of the curve, right? They were one of those customers that was proactive, in driving on their cloud journey, and proactive and driving beyond the work from home. It did change the dynamics on how they work and how they act from a work from home standpoint, but they were already set up. So then they didn't really skip a beat as they continue to drive that. But overall, to your point, Lisa, we've seen an increase and acceleration and companies really moving towards the cloud, right. Which is why that migration strategy, joint migration strategy, that Sabina talked about is so important because it really has accelerated. And in some companies, this has become the safety net for them, in some ways their DR Strategy, to shift to the cloud, that maybe they weren't looking to do until maybe 2022 or 2023, it's all been accelerated. >> Everything's, but we have like whiplash on the acceleration going on. >> Sabina, talk to us about some of those joint successes through AWS's lens, a couple of customers, you're going to talk about the University of Manchester, and the Queensland Brain Institute, dig into those for us. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, I thank Chris sharing those stories there. So the two that kind of come into my mind is a University of Manchester. They have nearly 7,000 academic staff and researchers and they're, part of their digital transformation strategy was adopting VMware cloud on AWS. And the University actually chose Druva, to back up 160 plus virtual machine images, because Druva provided a simple and secure cloud-based backup solution. And in fact, saved them 50% of their data protection costs. Another one is Queensland Brain Institute, which has over 400 researchers who really worked on brain diseases and really finding therapeutic solutions for these brain diseases. As you can imagine, this research generates terabytes critical data that they not only needed protected, but they also wanted to collaborate and get access to this data continuously. They chose Druva and now using Druva solution, they can back up over 1200 plus research papers, residing on their devices, providing global and also reliable access 24 by seven. And I do want to mention, Lisa, right? The pandemic has changed all of humanity as we know it, right? Until we can all find a solution to this. And we've also together had to work to adjust what can we do to work effectively together? We've actually together with Druva shifted all of our day-to-day activities, 200% virtual. And we, but despite all of that, we've maintained regular cadence for our review business and technical roadmap updates and other regular activities. And if I may mention this, right, last month we AWS actually launched the digital workplace competency, clearly enabling customers to find specialized solutions around remote work and secure remote work and Druva, even though we are all in this virtual environment today, Druva was one of the launch partners for this competency. And it was a great fit given the solution that they have to enable the remote work environments securely, and also providing an end-to-end digital workplace in the cloud. >> That's absolutely critical because that's been one of the biggest challenges I think that we've all been through as well as, you know trying to go, do I live at work or do I work from home? I'm not sure some of the days, but being able to have that continuity and you know, your customers being able to access their data at 24 by seven, as you said, because there's no point in mapping up your data, if you can't recover it but being able to allow the continuation of the relationship that you have. I want to move on now to some of the announcements. Chris, you mentioned actually Sabina you did, when you were talking about the University of Manchester, the VMware ready certification Chris, Druva just announced a couple of things there. Talk to us about that. >> Thank you. Yeah, Lisa you're right. There's been a ton of great announcements over the past several months and throughout this entire fiscal year. To be in this touch base on a couple of them around the AWS digital workplace, we absolutely have certification on AWS around VMware cloud, both on AWS and Dell EMC, through AWS. In addition to continuing to drive innovation because of this unique partnership around powerful security encryption and overall security benefits across the board. So that includes AWS gov cloud. That includes HIPAA compliance, includes FedRAMP, as well as SOC two type two, certifications as well and protection there. So we're going to continue to drive that innovation. We just recently announced as well that we now have data protection for Kubernetes, 100% cloud offering, right? One of the most active and growing workloads around data, around orchestration platform, right? So, doing that with AWS, some of my opening comments back when we built this 100% AWS, that allows us to continue to innovate and be nimble and meet the needs of customers. So whether that be VMware workloads NAS workloads, new workloads, like Kubernetes we're always going to be well positioned to address those, not only over time, but on the front end. And as these emerging technologies come out the nimbleness of our joint partnership just continues to be demonstrated there. >> And Sabina, I know that AWS has a working backwards approach. Talk to me about how you use that to accomplish all of the things that Chris and you both described over the last six, seven plus years. >> Yes, so the working backwards process we use it internally when we build our own services, but we also worked through it with our partners, right? It's about putting the customers first, aligning on those use cases. And it all goes back to our Amazon leadership principle on customer obsession, focusing on the customer experience, making sure that we have mechanisms in place, to have feedback from the customers and operate that into our services solutions and also with our partners. Well, one of the nice things about Druva since I've been working with them since 2014 is their focus on customer obsession. Through this process, we've developed great relationship, Druva, together with our service team, building solutions that deliver value by providing a full Saas service for customers, who want to protect their data, not only in AWS, but also in a hybrid architecture model on premises. And this is really critical to us cause our customers want us to work with Druva, to solve the pain points, creating a completely maybe a new customer experience, right. That makes them happy. And ultimately what we have found together with Druva, is I think Chris would agree with this, is that when we focus on our mutual customers, it leads to a very longterm successful partnership as we have today with Druva. >> It sounds like you talked about that feedback loop in the beginning from customers, but it sounds like that's really intertwined the entire relationship. And certainly from what you guys described in terms of the evolution, the customer successes, and all of the things that have been announced recently, a lot of stuff going on. So we'll let you guys get back to work. We appreciate your time, Chris. Thank you for joining me today. For Chris white and Sabina Joseph, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE. (soft music fades)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE Conversation. >> Hello everyone, welcome to this CUBE Conversation, I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE I'm in the Palo Alto CUBE Studios here with the quarantine crew, doing the remote interviews during this time of COVID. Of course, we want to check in with all of our great esteemed guests and CUBE alumni. We're here with Jerry Chen, partner at Greylock. Jerry, great to see you, it's been a while. Hope you're sheltering in place, nice camera, nice set up you got there at home, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks, John. I set up all the cameras are just for you. Everybody needs their quarantine hobbies, and for me, I kind of dust off the audio visual playbook and set this up, just for theCUBE interviews. But it's good to see you. Glad you and the family are healthy and sane as well. >> Yeah, and same to you. Let's just jump into it, obviously, COVID-19 has caused the virtualization trend, virtual everything. You're no stranger to virtualization, and VMware back in the day really changed the game on server virtualization, but the whole world's becoming virtual. And it's very interesting because now people are feeling, but we in the industry have been talking about inside the ropes for a long time, which is, the future is there, it's going to be about interactions online, software, cloud scale, these things just got accelerated, and the disruption, the change of behavior, Zoom fatigue, Webexing, all this stuff that's happening, people are kind of like, "Wow! This is the future." This is a real impact, and it's mainstream, everyone's feeling about business, to personal, your thoughts? >> Yeah, I think Satya Nadella at Microsoft had this quote recently that they've seen two decade's worth of digital acceleration and transformation in just two months, and I think what we've seen the past four months, John is all the kind of first order effects of virtualization events, not just infrastructure, but like virtualization meetings and people, telemedicine, telehealth, online education, delivery of food, all those trends are just accelerated. We're buying stuff on eCommerce, and Amazon, and Instacart before hand, that's just accelerated. We're moving towards virtualized events, online education, online healthcare, that's just accelerated. So I think we're seeing the first order effects of changing not only how we work, how we communicate, but how we shop, interact, and socialize, it compress two decades within two, three months. And so I think that's changing both how you and I interact and how we build relationships, also how companies interact with their customers, and how companies interact with employees. and it's been exciting time, because one, when there's disruption, there's opportunity, but two is giving guys like you and me a chance to kind of dust off or try new skills, and you and I are both figuring out how to exist and thrive in this role where we're now interacting in this virtualized world. >> And it's still the same game personal relationships. Content is now data. This is stuff that we've been preaching on theCUBE. You've been on many times talking about, I going to get your thoughts as a venture capitalist, whether you're making bets on the future for investments, you have a 10 year horizon, and roughly speaking average on VC deals, enterprises and customers who are building a cloud and data centers, they got to make new bets or double down on stuff they've been doing, or cancel stuff that they had going on, and refactoring. So I want to to get your thoughts on one, first on the VC side, how have you guys refactored your thinking, your meetings, and your bets? >> Yeah, so I would say, three areas, one is how we operate as a VC firm what's changed? Number two, I'll talk about what we're investing in what's good or bad, and thirdly is like, what I think changes for our portfolio companies and how startups think. So first and foremost obviously, we've gone all virtual too, with shelter-in-place, our entire team is now working remotely, working from home, but we're still open for business and we're looking to find new investments, we are investing aggressively right now, and we're just doing things over Zoom. And so we're either A, doing video calls as a partnership, or doing video calls with startups that we're meeting and founders, but I'll be honest, one thing I've done John, is I've turned off the screen more or less, I've done more phone calls because I find that a video call is great for the first or second meeting, but with a founder or executive you have relationship with, it's just really nice to actually, go on a virtual walk where me and the founder of both put AirPods or take the phone to walk outside and kind of have a conversation, that's a little of a higher bandwidth. So, I think how we're operating has changed a little bit, but to your point, is the same business, connecting with a person one-on-one, reading the market, reading the founder, and making a bet. So that hasn't changed. I think on the stuff we're investing in, like you said, all the trends around cloud and APIs and SaaS, that's accelerated. So all the trends around the new workplace, SaaS companies, collaboration, going cloud that's accelerated faster, so some of our companies like Cato Networks that does software defined, wide area networks plus cloud security that just accelerated there in this market called secure access serves edge. We've seen kind of a nice tailwind from that, more and more data is going to cloud so companies like Rockset, that's a database company that you had on theCUBE, they're going to see a benefit from that because more and more data is now in the cloud. Then finally for the founders we work with, the way to go to market, the way to sell like no one's flying around selling one-on-one anymore, you're not meeting a CSO, or the CIO over steak dinner, or you're not going to a conference anymore. So a lot of our companies are figuring out how to do more online sales, bottoms ups adoption, that could be an API, that could be open source, we're trying to find a couple more of our line of business entry to the company and sell that way, versus go to a conference or for one-on-one meeting. So it's interesting, everything's moved faster, but then this slight curve ball on how you connect with your customer has changed. And so what's the Darwin line, it's not the strongest that survives, but the most adaptable. So we're seeing the companies that founders that are most adaptable right now, they're going to thrive. >> It's interesting, we've always talked about from a tech standpoint with DevOps and cloud-native, integration or horizontally scalable has been that ethos of value creation, you've talked about moats in the past, but now it's more real life, is becoming immersed into software, and so I want to get your thoughts on this, and we have a phrase here in theCUBE team is that, every company will become a media company, that's something that we believe in, and you starting to see that people are doing more Zooms, doing more digital events, you mentioned some of the other things. Can you see any other examples where a company has to become blank? Because media is just one element of the new realities of life, right? You got to broadcast, and you got to share your stories and formats, that's media, is there other areas we're seeing, that things that weren't on the radar before with COVID, where companies have to become something like, every company will be blank? Fill in the blank. >> I would say, it's trite to say one, one, was every company is a data company, people have been saying that for a while, that's more true than ever. Number two, I'll be honest, every company now is a healthcare company, right? Because be it in health insurance for employees, the current pandemic is making the reality of both physical health, and emotional health, and mental health key for employees. And so if that was a top cost factor for hiring employees, this could be even more important going forward that every company is a health care company. And thirdly, like you said, every company becomes media company, I would say every company is also either one or two things, they're a Fintech company, because every company is now going online with their content. They wanting to create a one-to-one commercial relationship with a customer, right? That could be ads, could be transaction, could be selling something, so you're now doing business directly with your customer, so every company is a Fintech company, and I would say every company's now also, like you said, content company, right? It's the media creating, but also the data you're taking, the value you add on top of the data you're creating, and then how you share that back to your customer. So you as an enterprise company or a consumer company, you collect data from users, you're to use that data to improve your product, and this could be a SaaS offering, this could be an application, but then take that data through real time analytics, then make your product better and so because of that, if you're a data company, real time data, like our database company mentioned earlier, Rockset becomes more important. If you're a Fintech company, so all things around payments or commercial banking and relationship with your customer make sense. And if a you're a healthcare company because all your employees are now caring about healthcare, just thinking about how to make communication of healthcare with employees a lot more efficient, and a part of the reason why to work for theCUBE and work for a startup is important, so I think those three things are top of mind for all employees and all employers. I think things could change the next six or nine months, but right now I see those three being front and center. >> It's interesting. I wonder if you can add real estate company to that because if you look at the work from home, it's dynamic. >> Yeah >> I had a friend who was a fellow dad with my son's lacrosse team, he lives in Los Gatos, he's been involved in Google, Tesla, building up their facilities, and he had an interesting guest post on SiliconANGLE, and he was saying, it's not just give them some extra pay for their internet access, companies got to rethink the facilities question, right? Because do you pay rent for your employees? Do you provide the VPN, beyond VPN security, for instance? So again, you start to see these new opportunities or challenges, open up new thinking, this is going to be a wave of opportunity. >> Well, that virtualization between work and home has now been blurred like you said earlier, John and so if you're a technology company that enables remote access or distribute access, like Cato Networks when the portfolio comes and Greylock around our road office, home office, that is now how to right? So I had this conversation with Jason of Austin, askSpoke, one of our companies, there's like a mass of hierarchy for working out, and at the base of the mass of hierarchy is like good internet access, right? That's the how to, you need security, right? Because if you don't have secure access, you can't work, and then you have information management, knowledge management, how to communicate, right? And then collaboration, so, you have now this new hierarchy of what is required you to work in this new world, but also the tools and the technologies, be it secured access service edge like CATO or IT Helpdesk for all employees like askSpoke, both of those things become dial tone for any remote work. Just like videoconferencing, we couldn't do this in the same way, 10, 15 years ago, that's become kind of a must have, and so I think it'd be fascinating how we went from the office world where I gave you a laptop, or a computer, or a desk to this home office world, where maybe you now I have to pay for my fancy camera setup and my VPN. >> Well certainly you're getting good ROI on your setup and sure Greylock will take care of that plenty of dough big, billions of dollars under management. And by the way, must have hire things in our houses, ping and internet access, so we fight for that ping time, I got 12 I'm like what's going on? Who's gaming? We have to get the kids off of Twitch, and whatnot. but in all seriousness, this is what the reality is. So now for the average person out there, there's a lot of discussion around mental health, you mentioned taking it off the video conferencing and going for a walk, or just talking on the phone, this speaks to the humanization aspect of what's going on, mental health, social interaction, we're social creatures, collaboration has to be re-imagined. What's your view on all this? >> I think absolutely, look, humans are social creatures by nature, and I think part of the reason why I had this conversation with my founders early during COVID-19, that it's both a healthcare crisis. It's an economic crisis with all the million and millions of people unemployed, but it's also an emotional crisis because one, we're not connected to family, friends, and loved ones, and we're sheltering home with either ourselves or just a handful of people. And so we're trying to figure out ways to like, recreate social connections, and that's a phone call, it's a video call, it's Zoom dinners, it's Zoom dinners, the Zoom parties, is key. I think, going on socially just in walks is another thing to kind of like, play and experience things together. But my two cents is if you're a startup, right now, it can help connect people work-wise or socially, that's just going to be super critical for the new experience. And I think people are discovering new ways to use technology, so Zoom was never meant to be used the way it is today, I think that's amazing. I think how people think about voice video, and email, and chat are changing as well. So I'll finding new ways to like, play games online with my nieces, or communicate with them. And I think as an employer in these companies, like HR software, and how you like manage, and coach, and lead your employees is going to change as well. And so, you have this world where we're all in one building, and think about how you as a CEO, or as a leader now can actually coach, develop, and enable your employees across the world. >> I want to get your thoughts on cloud, we've had many conversations around cloud computing as to rise of AWS, I remember one it was a big Twitter conversation, I think about last year where what enabled Amazon and I think one of the things that came out of it was virtualization enabled them to have all these different servers. What do you see coming out of this virtualization of our lives with the COVID-19, as people start to figure out beyond the triage of stabilization, and as they get foundationally set up in COVID, coming out of it, companies and people have to have a growth strategy, whether it's life or business, people want to come out of this on the upside, whether it's emotional or with their business, what do you see being enabled? What needs to be in place? What kind of scale? What kind of environment? Because this is where I think the entrepreneurs are really going to sharpen their energy on their creativities looking at the expectations and experience needed coming out of this, it may look completely different than what we were talking about a year ago. What's your thoughts? >> Well, I think individually, people can use this time to prove their skills in different ways. So I think as an employee, as CEO, as a founder, you take the time to like invest in new skills, and that could be, "Hey, how do our community collaborate and manage my team remotely?" So I think CEOs and founders that can understand how to motivate, educate, train their employees in this new world, well, those are skills going forward. So communication has always been a great skill John, for any leader, any founder, it's 10X more important in this new virtualized work role, communication, motivation, and leading people over remote work is going to be a new skill that people have. Managing remote teams, managing fully distributed teams or half distributed, half headquarters, so understanding how to organize and lead your team in this kind of half in the office half out of the office role, that's going to be a challenge as well. So any tools, technology and tips there, but I think in terms of the founders that can now hire employees, find customers, sell customers, and manage a distributed team, those three things in this new world, even post COVID-19, we're not going back to the way we were, so the ability to actually use skills around email, creating content, Slack, Zoom, video chat, online conferences, what was that? "Video Killed the Radio Star", the first MTV Video. So, COVID-19, and Zoom, and video collaboration, what's that do to the old skills or the old founders? And what do they enable? So just like TV replaced radio as a medium, and now this virtualized world is going to replace kind of the medium we had beforehand, so, there'll be new generation of founders and investors coming out of this generation that would be for the next 10, 15 years, and I'm excited to be part of that. >> Yeah, and it's super big opportunity, because you have these kind of medium changes, new protocols get developed, new responsibilities and roles emerge, value creation capture, equations change, right? So you're looking at things like online events, for instance, they don't happen anymore, and even when they do come back they'll probably be hybrid anyway. So you got virtual, hybrid, public it sounds like a cloud play to me, public events, hybrid events, and private events, I guess. >> Yeah, virtual private events, but the same thing holds, just like cloud internet increased the reach, right? So all of a sudden, you can reach a bigger audience than just radio, TV, or the newspaper. Now you have these virtualized events like say private events, public events, hybrid events, you as a company or a media property, like theCUBE can now reach a larger audience, right? It's global, you don't have to be there in person, you're going to have the remote audience as a first class citizen, now more than ever, it's just like the internet replacing newspaper and print, people really care about print and newspaper, but really the reach online is always a magnitude larger than print, so all of a sudden you thought more about the print, so the online audience more than print audience. So now going forward, you're going to think about the virtual audience that's remote versus the physical audience. And so you're going to have to create experiences that are their world class or both properties. So just like the cloud, you think about the big three cloud providers, private cloud, as a technology company, you think about all three venues, all three infrastructures as a first class citizen. It's not going to be all one cloud, it's not all going to be one note, if you will. So it forces everyone to think, not just kind of one path, but multiple paths, so like classic problems a lot of founders think, okay, I'm going to do an enterprise private cloud strategy only or I'm going to do a cloud only SaaS strategy. Now founders of this do both the same time, I got to address the private cloud on premise business at the same time as the cloud business, and not just one cloud, three or four clouds around the world. So it forces founders to be able to do more things at one time and the ability for a company to attack multiple venues or multiple territories at the same time, they'll be successful. And the days where I can just do one cloud or one venue, or one audience, those are gone, and so, folks like yourself, John, and what you've built here at theCUBE with everyone else, they can reach multiple audiences at the same time, that's going to be very powerful. >> And we're going to be marketing and doing a lot more online events, like you said, it's going to be easier to tap into our 7000 plus alumni to get people together to create great content. And again, content value to remote audience is interesting. So that shifts into the conversation that everyone talks about the remote worker. Well, what about the remote customer, the remote prospects? So this is going to change how companies have to be change of behaviors. And it's going to be driven by developers, because it's not like one app can solve it, 'cause you got to integrate, you got to have some integration points. So this is the question, are we moving away from that monolithic SaaS app? Or is it going to be some SaaS apps that need to integrate with others? Will there be an abstraction layer of innovation around? Because at the end of the day, these new workloads and new apps going to be built. If you're going to run an event, if I'm a SAP or a big company, I'm not going to rely or may not want to rely on a vendor. In fact, the CEO of SAP said, 'cause their site crashed for their event, "I'm not going to rely on a third party to run my business event." 'Cause their business model is the event, not just a supplier selection for a SaaS app. So interesting kind of new surge of online activity might tip the scales for the supplier side. >> I think you're right John, I think because now the, just like the IT technology is now your business, you're going to basically do one or two things, one, vet the IT technology provider that much higher or harder. But number two to your point, I think the way you sell and you reach companies is going to be through developers and yes, you're going to have these large monolithic SaaS apps before, but almost every SaaS app now has APIs for integration, and so to your point, is that integration and the ability to have multiple companies work together, and share data, and collaborate, that's going to be more important. And so really at Greylock and myself, I've been investing in developer-led technologies and developer-led adoption, or API, or open source-led adoption, for seven plus years now. And the truth of matter is, that's going to be even more powerful going forward. Nassim Taleb would say that's anti-fragile, right? So having one giant app is fragile, but having a bunch of small apps, or a bunch of APIs, or a bunch of developers using your open source technology, or using your API technology to build an application, that's anti-fragile, because at the end of the day, that's going to be more reliable for your customer than a single point of failure, which can be one giant application. So all the big apps like Salesforce, have now other platforms, right? They have APIs, they have extensibility, they understand that there's a long fat tail of solutions needed to build. And all the new startups are doing open source, or API-led adoption 'cause they understand that the fastest route to create value for the customer, is also the most robust technology stack that a customer can build upon. I think that's super insightful, in fact, that is, I think so compelling, because if you think about it, that's the formula for great investments from a startup standpoint. But now, because of COVID, you said, everything's been pulled forward and accelerated at the same time, there's a collision, not all the enterprises are that strong, they're not that developer-led. So I think, to the point about acceleration, now, the enterprises, and we've seen pockets of this with cybersecurity where they have their own, in-house teams doing a variety of different development. The customers have to be developer-led, because that's where the value is, so they have to have a supplier with the right stack and integration frameworks. Now, the customers who haven't really been developer-led, have to be developer-led, what's your take on that? >> Absolutely true. 20 years ago, the CIO of a company that used to be the monopoly supplier technology for the company, they decided what hardware to use, what servers, what stores to use, what applications to buy. And then all of a sudden, like Amazon came around and said, "Well, look, here's a set of APIs, go build what you want." And so the competition for kind of like the centralized decision making became Amazon. And guess what? CIOs reacted, they got better, they got smarter, and those that embrace kind of like an API developer-led adoption, became the CIOs you wanted to have in the company. So I think, CIOs in this cloud mobile era have adopted that philosophy that, look, my job now as the CIO is to enable my developers, my employees, which really the assets of the company is the people, to have the right tools. So you're asked a bunch of cloud APIs, like Rockset or whatever for data, or here's a bunch of resources, or open source technologies for you to pull. So like I invested in a company recently called Chronosphere, it's an open source technology around metrics and monitoring. So, "Hey, use this open source time series database for monitoring your cloud and build upon that," and they're not going to say, "We're going to pick one large vendor that's monolithic," we're going to say, "Here's an open source tech company or a cloud API, go build upon that." And the companies that are embracing that philosophy of API-led or developer-led, John, they're going to be far ahead the better CIOs, the better companies, because the rate of digital adoption has just gone exponential, so we were on this super fast path already, and with quarantine in COVID, we've accelerated all that digital transformation, so every brick-and-mortar retailer now has to be eCommerce retailer. So they're making a slow digital transformation to go from brick-and-mortar stores to online stores. Now like brick-and-mortar retail is pretty much not happening, and probably won't come back to the same levels for a while, they need to accelerate their move towards digital transformation, right? >> And IT certainly exposes the people who haven't really made those investments, because literally action and the mandate, now take action, make those changes, totally want to dig into this developer-led vision, because I think that's very real. And the new decision is going to be made on what to do. I'm happy to see the DevOps thinking, the agile, speed become the table stakes. So with that, this week, Google is having their nine-week digital event of 200 plus sessions, essentially, an asynchronous event, it's going to be sprinkled out, they've kind of pretty much released the videos, most of them today. Over the next eight, nine weeks, you're going to see a lot of videos. Google, one of the big three got AWS, Azure, Google, what's your assessment of the horses on the track relative to the cloud? >> I've been talking about this for seven, eight, nine years, I first met it, like in the first or second Amazon reinvent and what was the forecast? And we said, well, it's not a winner take all, but right now, it's a winner take most. Amazon's clearly the market share leader, Azure coming up quickly behind the enterprise, Google's a third but they're doing some smart things around technology. Google announced a bunch of things today, which I think are very smart. So for example, they announced BigQuery Omni, which is BigQuery that's in query, their kind of a data warehouse, also query data and private cloud Azure or Amazon. And so strategically, if you're the number three player, you're going to push a multi-cloud agenda with BigQuery Omni, or Google Anthos, which is kind of a multi-cloud platform. And for Google, I think is the right strategy. I also think it's the right strategy for most customers to be multi-cloud, because you can't be dependent upon, a single point of failure in your applications. You can't be dependent on a single cloud as well. So I think multi-cloud is probably the direction we're headed as cloud matures. And I think Google's making a bunch of the right choices around embracing multi-cloud, and today they made that choice with BigQuery Omni, and so I think they're playing catch up but they're playing that game. I think Amazon's clue is still in the lead and still it blows my mind, and it's continuing to impress me what they've done over the past 10 years in terms of improving the cloud offering and the cloud services up and down the stack, and I think the past five, six years, what Azure has done, has been super impressive in terms of, Microsoft embracing, open source embracing, cloud as an ethos against their legacy business of operating systems and servers on premise, they've done a great job of embracing the next generation. But I do think, looking around the corner this new developer-led mindset is going to matter, right? So the cloud tomorrow will be APIs, like Stripe for payments, Twilio for communication. So I see the next evolution not just being VMs and containers, but also a bunch of cloud services around data, security, and privacy. And the cloud vendors can build this next generation of database APIs, or privacy APIs, security APIs, that they're going to be in the catbird seat for the next 10 years of applications are going to be built. >> And it'll be interesting to your developer-led position, our conversation around that, if the developer is going to be leading, is it going to be an abstraction layer across multiple clouds? Or do I have to have my Google developers, and my Amazon developers, and my Azure developers? How do you see that playing out? Because I do believe developer-led is the way, the question is, how do you avoid forking resources, right? So you might want to have an (mumbles) I get that, but if I'm going to go double down on say, a cloud, I'm going to go deep, I'm going to hire developers. >> It's interesting, history suggests you have multiple teams remember, we used to have a Unix team or a Sun team inside companies, right? You had a Windows team, you had a kind of a Solaris and Linux team, and there's a Microsoft team, and a non-Microsoft team, in most companies and they didn't really work well together and they had kind of two groups in most companies. I think that was an okay way to get started, but ultimately, to your point, that was not cost effective at all, it was defeating, you see now you had to like have to rethink it, what was my data backup strategy? Okay, I have a Windows backup strategy, and a Unix Solaris backup strategy. So I think we're not going to make the same mistake again, right? I think what will happen, we'll going to have multiple clouds, Amazon, Google, Azure, and then on premise private cloud, so call it, three, four, or five clouds. And then you're going to have a set of tools that can abstract away, not 100% of the clouds, but I think the best developer tools, the best APIs will be multi-cloud. So I can get 80% or 90% of what I want to be done through this developer-led layer of APIs, be it databases or analytics. And then, 10 to 20% of the code, you can write will be able to take care of what's unique to Amazon, what's unique to Azure, what's unique to Google or what's unique to your own private cloud. But I think we're seeing a layer of technology and that's true to all the startups. With back and true to all the startups I see that lets you get most of the way done with a single platform, seamlessly AI technologies, and that's what customers want, right? They don't want to create modal fiefdoms, they want-- >> They want choice. The want choice, but the reality is they don't always get it. I want to go through a throwback to 2010 when Paul Maritz, head of the VMware our first CUBE gig, he said, there's a hardened top. Okay, the hardened top was, you don't worry about what's underneath the top, we're just going to focus on top of the stack that was classic kind of, the stack would develop and you'd had standardization. You mentioned you had Windows teams and Unix teams, but also you could argue that, back then you had Cisco and Wellfleet vendors, but you didn't have two teams of routers, you had one standard that ran the remote interoperability, and OSPF routing, or whatever you had going on, so you had some standardization, how do you view that? Because you want some standardization to have the interoperability, the SLAs and the security, at the same time you want to have flexibility, kind of above what may be called a hardened top, is there a hardened top in multi-cloud? >> I'd say hard top doesn't exist in same way. I think back in the day, you had proprietary technologies, operating systems and firmware, right? So windows was closed, a lot of the network operating systems were closed source. Now you can't get away with that. So you have open source technologies today and public APIs. And so the pressure of both one, competition, two, public APIs that people can read, copy, adjust, three, open source, and it's just customer demand not to be locked into a hard top anymore, that's largely going to go away. So I think most of the major vendors success will try to kind of more or less lock you in and keep you stuck on their platform, their technology, and that's fine, right? Every successful company should be able to do that. But I think the ability to lock you in through proprietary software or operating systems, that's not going to happen anymore. I see through cloud and open source, what we've seen is kind of interoperability, and flexibility is the default, if you can't meet those needs, customers will go other ways. There'll be proprietary technologies, proprietary extensions along the way, but 60, 70% of what you want is going to be compatible with most technologies and most clouds. If you're not going to offer choice and freedom to our customers, they'll go elsewhere. If you don't offer a flexible solution, John, someone else will, and the customers will choose a more flexible solution. >> I would agree with you. Outside of latency, which is laws of physics, value is the lock in, if you're creating value, that's really what the customers want, they get to capture that value. Well, Jerry, great to have you on. I love the new setup. We're going to have to make this more of it. We can bring you in on the podcast when we get Zooms over the weekend, maybe put a panel together. Let's get Carl Eschenbach some VMware alarms to come on, give the perspective, what's going on. And I thank you for taking the time and great to see that you're healthy and doing well. Thanks. >> Me too. Thanks, john. Anytime, I love to be on theCUBE, so I look forward to my next trip. >> All right, Jerry Chen, great CUBE alumni, our first interview over nine years ago, he brought that up. That was at the second reinvent, boy has the world changed, and it's only going to accelerate even faster. Everything's changing new bets are being made, decisions have to be evolving quickly and faster. If you're not fast, you will be in the pile of dead companies and not making it. So, Jerry Chen breaking it down as venture capitalist for Greylock. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (soft music)

>>Ly from San Diego, California. It's the cube covering to clock in cloud native con brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem Marsh. >>Welcome back to San Diego. It's CubeCon cloud native con 2019. You're watching the cube. I'm streaming in my cohost for three days of live coverage is John Troyer and happened at welcome fresh off the keynote stage to my right is as hers as har who's the chief architect for telco at red hat and the man that was behind the scenes for a lot of it, hunting Garcia, telco solutions manager at red hat. A gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us and a very interesting keynote. So you know 5g uh, you know, my background's networking, we all watch it. Um, uh, let's say my telco provider already says that I have something related to five G on my phone that we grumble a little bit about, but we're not going to talk about that where we are going to talk about his keynote. Uh, we had a China mobile up on stage. Uh, maybe a, I love a little bit behind the scenes as you were saying. Uh, you know, the cloud native enabled not just uh, you know, the keynote and what it's living, but it gets a little bit of what >>well, sure. Um, look, when we took on this particular project to build a cloud native environment, uh, for five genes, we spent a lot of time planning and in fact this is a guy who actually did, you know, most of that work, um, to do a lot of planning in terms of picking different components and getting that together. Um, one of the things that cloud native environment allows us to do is bring things up quickly. The resilience part of it and the scale bar, right? Those are the two important components and attributes of cloud native. In fact, what happened last night was obviously one of the circuit breakers trapped and we actually lost power to that particular entire part that is onstage. I mean, nobody knows about this. I didn't talk about it as part of the keynote, but guess what? Through because it was cloud native because it was built in an automated fashion. People were able to work. Yes, they spent about three hours or so to actually get that back up. But we got it back up and running and we showed it live today. But what, I'm not trying to stress on how it failed a white fail. I'm trying to stress on how quickly things came back up and more important. The only cloud native way of doing things could have done that. Otherwise it wouldn't have been possible. All right. >>as, as the man behind the scenes there. Uh, it's great when we have, you know, here's actually the largest telco provider in the world. Uh, you know, showing what it, it's happened. So the title Kubernetes everywhere that telco edge gets a little bit of a hind, the scenes as to kind of the, the, the mission of building the solution and how you got it, you know, your, your, your customers, your partners, uh, engaged and excited to participate in. >> This is what's that very thirsting enterprise through realize. Actually, we took four months around, uh, 15 partners. And, uh, I would say partners >>because in that case, I'm taking, uh, uh, bell Canada and China mobile is a partners. They are part of the project. They were giving us a requirement, helping us all the way to it and together other, uh, more, uh, commercial partners. And of course, uh, as whatsover Allianz, like the team in the and the open interface, Allianz is, we're working with us is, was about 8,200 people working behind the scenes to get this work, uh, to have a lab, uh, directly, completely set up with a full, uh, Fuji containerized MoMA and network in France, uh, have the same in Montreal. Fuji and fogey called directly Montiel as well, uh, in one of our partners, uh, Calum labs and then bringing here the fudgey pop, uh, and have everything connected to the public cloud. So we have everything in there. So all the technology, all the mobile technology was there. >>We have enterprise technology that we're using to connect all the, all the labs and the, and the pop here with the public cloud to. Uh, um, technology and we have of course deployed as, as a, as our, uh, was mentioning. We deployed Kubernete is on the public cloud and we have as well Kubernete is open, rehabbed, open stack, uh, sorry. They had OpenShift container platform running on the, on all the premise in the lab in France and Davi, Marcia and they pop here. Uh, as I say, it was kind of an interesting enterprise. We have some hiccups last night, but uh, we were able to put that out the world telco, >>very specialized, very high service level agreements. I always want by phone to work and so a little bit, uh, uses different terminology than the rest of it sometimes. Right. And MP and VNF and VCO. But so maybe let's real to tell people a little bit like what are we actually talking about here? I mean, people also may not be following edge and, and teleco and what's actually sitting in their home town or, or it used to be embedded chips and none, it was a like Linux, but we're actually talking about installing Kubernetes clusters in a lot of different, really interesting typologies. That's absolutely true actually with the way how, and described it as perfect in the sense that we actually had Kubernetes clusters sitting in a data center environment in France, in Montreal and a remote pop that's sitting here on stage. So it was not just independent clusters but also stretch clusters where we actually had some worker nodes here that will attach back to the Montreal cluster. >>So the flexibility that it gave us was just awesome. We can't achieve that. Uh, you know, in general. But you brought up an interesting topic around, uh, you know, Getty or, uh, or, or the Teleco's operating environment, which is different and cloud native principles has, are a little bit different where they weren't very high availability, they weren't very high reliability with good amount of redundancy. Well, cloud native and actually those attributes to you. But the operational model is very different. You have to almost use codas throwaway hardware as throwaway and do a horizontal scale model to be able to build that. Whereas in the older environment, hardware was a premium switches and routers with a premium and you couldn't have a failure. So you needed all of those, you know, compliance of high availability and upgradability and so on. Here I'm upgrading processes in Linux, I'm upgrading applications. I can go deploy anytime, tear them down. Anytime I'm monitoring the infrastructure, using metrics, using telemetry. That wasn't the case before. So a different operating environment, but it provides actually better residency models than what telcos are actually yesterday. Yeah. >>Um, it's a complicated ecosystem to put all these pieces together. Uh, it gives, gives a little insight as to, uh, you know, red hats, leadership and uh, the, the, the partners that help you put it in. >>I will let him answer that. >>Um, is another, our first rodeo. We have been working on the vitro central office project with the, with the leaner foundation, uh, networking and Hopi NFV community for three last years. Uh, let's say, and the interesting part of this one is that even though we typically get with working with what the technology that they are using now, uh, we decided it's time to go with the technologies that we'll be using from now on. Um, but of course, uh, there is a set of partners that we need. We need to build the infrastructure from scratch. So for example, we have a Lenovo that was bringing all the, all the servers, uh, for the, for the set up in, uh, and here in San Diego, which actually the San Diego pub was built originally in Raleigh, Illinois, facilities and cheap all over the country to here for the show. Uh, and uh, then we have the fabric part. >>So the networking part, that's his cologne. Uh, this was working and bringing us the software defined fabric, uh, to connect all the different future. And then, then we start building this over layers on top. So we have, they had OpenShift container platform for the to completely deploy over metal servers. And then we start adding all the rest of the components, like the four G core fundamental Tran, like dividing for GFG radio from Altron, uh, together with Intel come Scott. That's his building. He started building the mobile part of it in Montreal, a San Diego. And then we add on top of that. Then we start adding the IMS core in the public cloud and then we connect everything through the by tuning. >>So a couple of things that I'd like to highlight in terms of coordinating partners, getting to know when they're ready, figuring out an onboarding process that gives them a sandbox to play with their configurations first before you connect them back into the main environment. Partitioning that working simultaneously with Malden, we had a Slack board that was full of messages every day. We had a nonstop, you know, every morning we had a scam call, right then it's like a scrum meeting every morning, just a daily stand up from eight 30 to nine 30. And we continue that all over the day. >>So as her, one of the things I really like to China mobile, uh, when they talked about in the keynote, first of all they said, you know, the problem is, you know, 20 by 2026, you know, it's, it's rainbows and unicorns and you know, 5g, uh, you know, will help enable so much around the planet. Seriously. Um, but you know, today she, she talked about major challenge in the rollout and infrastructure and service and capability. So, you know, help us understand a little bit the hype from reality of where we are with five G what we could expect. >>Absolutely. We are going through the hype phase right now, right? We are absolutely all the operators want FFG service to be delivered for sure. The reason why they want it to be delivered as they don't want to be left behind. Now there are some operators when we in more opportunistic and looking at 5g as a way to insert themselves into different conversations, IOT conversation, um, smart city conversation, right? Um, edge compute conversation. So they're being very strategic about how the big, the set of technologies, how they go deploy in that particular infrastructure and strategically offer capabilities and build partnerships. Nobody's going to rip out their existing three G four G network and replace that with 5g by 2026. It's not gonna happen, but what will happen by 2026 is an incremental phase of services that will be continued to offer. As an example, I'll give you, um, cable providers are looking at 5g as a way to get into homes because they can deploy in millimeter wave band a radio closer to the house and get a very high speed multi-gigabit high speed connection into the home without having to worry about what's your copper look like? >>Do I have fiber to the home? Do I have fiber to the business and so on. And so. So that's actually an interesting, >>okay, so you're saying solving the last mile issue in a very targeted use. >>Absolutely. So that's one. The other area might be running a partnership with BMW Toyota in, you know, some of these car companies to provide telemetry back from cars into their own, you know, operating environment so that they know what's going on, what's being used, how is it being used, how can we, how can we do provide diagnosis before the car actually begins to fail? Uh, big, you know, private environments like oil and gas mining, they are going to deploy public safety and security where all of these, you know, policemen on and safety personnel are required to now use body cams. Now you have video feeds coming from hundreds of people. There are deployment and incidents. Now you can take that information you need high speed broadband, you need the ability to analyze data and do analytics and provide feedback immediately so that they can actually act. So do three, this specific targeted use case, even a country like India where they're talking about using 5g for very specific use cases, not replacing your phone calling. >>I love that point. And it kind of ties back into some of the other things you were saying about the a agility and the operational model. And I relate it back to it. You know, my, again, my perception of some telco maybe 20 years old and that they had a tendency to do very monolithic projects. And you know, when you're out, when you're rolling out a infrastructure across the country, there's a certain, uh, monolithic nature to it. But you're talking about rolling out one, rolling out individual projects rolling out. That's also the advice we give to it. Try it with one thing, you know, try open shift with that one application and then also though, but it takes uh, the upskilling and the cultural model. So true with your telco petitioners who are, we're on Slack, they're with you and I, you know, I don't, I don't know if there's any relation, any other kinds of things to pull out about the mirror of, of the it transformation with telco transformation and colon Turner. That's actually a good point that you bring up, >>right? Look, the costs of building, if I have infrastructure from ground up is extremely high. If they want to completely revamp that. You're talking about replacing every single radio, you're talking about adding capacity more adding, you know, backhaul capacity and so on. So that isn't going to happen overnight. It's going to happen. It may take even more 10 years. Right. I mean in the most interesting thing, that stat stack that I saw was even LTE is going to grow. LTE subscriber count is going to grow for the next two years before it flatmates. So we're not going to LTE four G that's been around for a decade almost. Right. And it's going to still grow for the next two years, then it's going to flatten and then you'll start to see more 5g subscribers. Now back to the point that you were bringing up in terms of operational model change and in terms of how things will be I D principles applying it principles to telco. >>Um, there are still some challenges that we need to solve in Coobernetti's environment in particular, uh, to address the teleco side of the house. And in fact through this particular proof of concept, that was one of the things we were really attempting to highlight and shine a light on. Um, but in terms of operational models, what use applicable and it will now be totally applicable on the telco network, the CIC pipeline. There's delivery of applications and software that testing and integration, the, you know, um, operational models. Absolutely. Those, in fact, I actually have a number of service providers and telcos that I talked to who are actually thinking about a common platform for it end telco network. And they are now saying, okay, red hat, can you help us in terms of designing this type of a system. So I think what could speak to you a little bit about, uh, in this context is how the same infrastructure can be used for any kind of application. So you want to talk about how the community's platform can be used to deploy CNS and then to deploy applications and how you've shown that. Yeah. Well this is what, >>what we have been doing, right. So we have, uh, the coordinators platform does, is actually deploy and the services we have, all these partners are bringing their Cloudnative uh, function, uh, applications on top of that, that what we are calling the CNF the quantities and network functions. And basically what we were doing as well during the whole process is that we have, those partners are still developing, still finishing the software. So we were building and deploying at the same time and testing on the same time. So during the last four months, and even I can tell you even just to deny >>even last night, so the full CACD pipeline that we deploy in ID side, here it is in operation on the network side. >>Well yeah. So, so I, I want to give you the final word cause you know, John was talking about it cycles, you know, if you think about enterprises, how long they used to take to deploy things, uh, and what cloud data is doing for them. Uh, it sounds like we're going through a similar trends. >>Absolutely big in a big way. Um, telcos are actually deploying a private cloud environment and they're also leveraging public cloud in mind. In fact, sometimes they using public cloud as sandbox for their development to be completed until they get deployed and private. Claremont, they still need the private time enrollment for their own purposes, like security, data sovereignty and uh, you know, their own operational needs. So, but they want to make it as transparent as possible. And in fact, that was one of the things we want to also attempted to show, which is a public cloud today, a private cloud and bare metal, a private cloud on OpenStack. And it was like, and you know, it came together, it worked, but it is real. That's more important. And, uh, for enterprise and for telcos to be literally going down the same path with respect to their applications, their services and their operational models. I think this is really a dream come true. >>Well, congratulations on the demo. Uh, but even more importantly, congratulations on the progress. Great to see, uh, you know, the global impact that's going to have in the telecommunications market. Definitely look forward to hearing more than. >>Thank you very much. Thank you. The opportunity to >>actually be here. All right. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman back with lots more here from CubeCon Claude, date of con 2019 in San Diego, California. Thanks for watching the queue.

(lively music) >> Narrator: Live from San Diego, California, it's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live US 2019. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to San Diego everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante I'm here with my co-host, Stu Miniman, day one of of our wall-to-wall coverage, three days of Cisco Live. We're here at the DevNet Zone, a lot of action going around us, CCIE's learning how to become programmers too. Gordon Thompson is here. He's the vice president of world wide sales, for Enterprise Networking good to see you again Gordon. Michael Beesley, he's the CTO for Cisco service provider business. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you for having us. >> So Gordon, we were in Barcelona in February, we talked a lot about some of the big trends here. We're going to focus today on 5G and Wi-Fi six since Barcelona you've been probably talking to a lot of customers what are you hearing from them, what are the big trends in the marketplace? >> Well I think it's interesting right? 'cause the first thing we talk about is well this massive bandwidth improvement and everyone says oh so what? I mean that's not interesting you know? But bandwidth doesn't change the game totally but I take everyone back to 4G right? When we moved from 3G to 4G and when we moved from 3G to 4G there was a social transformation around bandwidth and that was the mobile device right? The mobile device came along where we could do everything on that mobile device and that was a real social transformation the interesting thing was that Wi-Fi wasn't really linked to that social transformation you know I would go and speak to customers back in the day who would say bring your own device? Naw over my dead body we're never bringing you know bring your own device into the environment and what happened over time was organizations gradually recognized the importance of bring your own device and 4G and therefore high speed Wi-Fi what we see this time around is 5G comes along with this massive bandwidth improvement but at the same time organizations are realizing the importance of Wi-Fi 6 similar speeds and actually what I think we're going to see this time round is the business transformation leading the social transformation. The last time it was the public driving the change into the enterprise this time I think we're going to see the enterprise drive the change much faster than we thought. >> That's interesting 'cause obviously the killer app there that coincided with the social change with Facebook and Twitter and really a reemergence of LinkedIn you know as a key tool for business people but it was really the Twitter's and Facebook's that sort of drove that so what's the killer app this time around? (chuckles) >> Well do you know I think it's difficult to say here's the killer app just now 'cause when 4G came out we didn't know what the killer app was so I think it's hard for me to say here's the killer app but what I would say is you know you start to see things like virtual reality, augmented reality becoming a reality and business are all starting to now think about how can we use these technologies to get closer to our customers, to improve the productivity of our employees and how we can reduce cost and these sort of things ultimately businesses'll be very innovative around this and there'll be multiple different killer apps come along, for us to put our hands on our hearts today and say this is the killer app you know I think that's daft. >> You'd be starting a company if you knew. >> Yeah I would. (laughs) >> So Michael share with us what we need to know about 5G other than okay it's faster but from an architect standpoint what do we need to know? What's different and how's that going to affect the adoption? >> Yeah it's interesting obviously there's the speed gains but along with that there's the densification of the RAN that goes with 5G and for some customers for some service providers the opportunity to virtualize that RAN and to replace traditional integrated base band units with virtualized infrastructure on which you can run the infrastructural workloads that are needed in the Radio Access Network to be able to run that on compute rather than wall gardened integrated systems which opens up the opportunity to just distribute computing storage throughout that network infrastructure which obviously is used for infrastructure used for the RAN and used for the distribution of the mobile core in particular as we all embrace and certainly Cisco's embracing from an architecture point of view the separation of the control plane and the user plane for that mobile packet core. But once you have that infrastructure once you have that distributed compute that is much, much closer to the end user both consumer but more importantly the enterprise and user than it's ever been before, that opens up all kinds of opportunities for subsequent workloads to land on that infrastructure obviously caching is the most obvious one as we all consume more and more videos certainly we look at the analyst expectations for video and video growth by 2022 we expect about 81-82% of all traffic on the network to actually be video traffic so being able to put video caches at the edge is very important both from a quality of experience point of view and a pure cost point of view and then you've got the opportunity for the placement of all kinds of third party applications onto that edge compute infrastructure without 5G that edge compute infrastructure probably doesn't come about which marries up with the trends that we see in enterprise which is the continuing expansion into The Cloud continued growth of SAS services as well as their own private data centers and private Cloud which opens up that edge infrastructure to all of those application vendors that are serving enterprise to be able to position workloads at the edge of that network that can take advantage of the low latency and the enhanced bandwidth at those locations in the network. >> So Stu pivoting off of what Gordon said mobile plus 4G and then the social transformation it sounds like it's in this case it's edge 5G and a business transformation. >> Yeah well and Dave actually the word that I kept hearing jump out at me when Michael was going through that is enterprise because when I think about the 4G rollout was Cisco involved? Sure. Was Cisco like the first one you think of, of mobile, social and everything like that? Well you know there's a place that Cisco played but enterprise, enterprise, enterprise well Cisco's got a very strong position in that environment so is that how we should be thinking of it? And the other thing is what Gordon talked about that inside out that 5G plus Wi-Fi 6 that pieces together seems like a perfect place for Cisco to add its you know place in the market. >> Well certainly we're very excited about the opportunities with regards to the enterprise space in general and how we can enable, we can partner with our service provider customers to better serve and to better integrate with that enterprise environment, bringing together these two very powerful and innovative technologies, bringing together Wi-Fi 6 and 5G and certainly we're not the only ones that would observe that there was a study recently a few months ago, a study done of the CEO's of mobile network operators and according to that study 69% of those operators felt that their main monetization and their main way to drive revenue and profit off of 5G was actually orientated towards the enterprise. >> Yeah and look I'm very excited about number one so obviously we're known for being a Wi-Fi 6 player but we're also working very closely with the 5G players in the marketplace to make sure there's seamless handoff between 5G and Wi-Fi 6 you know? So the minute you check into the hotel when you come to San Diego what's the first thing you do? You put in your name and your room number. Those days are gone right? There's a seamless handover now from the 5G network to the Wi-Fi network to say this is exactly who you are, we know who you are and we'll onboard you seamlessly see? And we're working very closely with all of the handset providers to make sure that we integrate neatly there as well. So as we said at the start I think you know it will start this time round with the enterprise transformation it will lead the way the last time round the enterprises were dragged kicking and screaming into this world they're not getting dragged kicking and screaming into this world this time they're ready. >> Where does automation fit in this whole equation? What are your customers telling you? >> Well certainly it's a key area of focus and it's a key area of innovation for us I mean I would say that when we talk about a 5G network we do have a tendency to over abstract that that is a complicated set of technologies of which Cisco is the market leader in many obviously we don't do the macrocell radio's that is not part of our portfolio but we do all of the STN transport both in terms of equipment optical modules the optics themselves we do all of that, we're leading the industry with regards to the mobile packet core all of our routing assets and the full automation suite that you need to be able to deploy and manage a network that is an order of magnitude more dense than we've ever seen before, a network that has more equipment deployed further out than we've ever had before all in an environment where obviously our SP's, the service providers the global kind of comment they must find ways to make more money and to save money and the automation suite that we bring forward facilitates being able to manage and operate these very very large networks in a very cost effective way to the point that the operational costs and the total cost of ownership is significantly reduced but that automation also brings the agility to that network to the point that the service providers mobile network can more quickly address and more quickly activate services that those enterprise customers in particular, need. I mean an enterprise would not want to wait six months for a service activation more likely they want it activated in six minutes and you know the key to that is having a full suite of closed loop automation tools that enable that service creation. >> All right guys sorry we've got to leave it there we're in the speed zone at the DevNet Zone and the planes are backing up so thanks so much for coming back in theCUBE we appreciate it all right keep it right there everybody we'll be back with our next guest right after this short break you're watching theCUBE live from Cisco Live 2019 in San Diego be right back. (electronic jingle)

>> From our studios, in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Welcome to this CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We are here with Arpit Joshipura, GM of Networking, Edge, IoT for the Linux Foundation. Arpit, great to see you again, welcome back to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you, thank you. Happy to be here. >> So obviously, we love the Linux Foundation. We've been following all the events; we've chatted in the past about networking. Computer storage and networking just doesn't seem to go away with cloud and on-premise hybrid cloud, multicloud, but open-source software continues to surpass expectations, growth, geographies outside the United States and North America, just overall, just greatness in software. Everything's an abstraction layer now; you've got Kubernetes, Cloud Native- so many good things going on with software, so congratulations. >> Well thank you. No, I think we're excited too. >> So you guys got a big event coming up in China: OSS, Open Source Summit, plus KubeCon. >> Yep. >> A lot of exciting things, I want to talk about that in a second. But I want to get your take on a couple key things. Edge and IoT, deep learning and AI, and networking. I want to kind of drill down with you. Tell us what's the updates on the projects around Linux Foundation. >> Okay. >> The exciting ones. I mean, we know Cloud Native CNCF is going to take up more logos, more members, keeps growing. >> Yep. >> Cloud Native clearly has a lot of opportunity. But the classic in the set, certainly, networking and computer storage is still kicking butt. >> Yeah. So, let me start off by Edge. And the fundamental assumption here is that what happened in the cloud and core is going to move to the Edge. And it's going to be 50, 100, 200 times larger in terms of opportunity, applications, spending, et cetera. And so what LF did was we announced a very exciting project called Linux Foundation Edge, as an umbrella, earlier in January. And it was announced with over 60 founding members, right. It's the largest founding member announcement we've had in quite some time. And the reason for that is very simple- the project aims at unifying the fragmented edge in IoT markets. So today, edge is completely fragmented. If you talk to clouds, they have a view of edge. Azure, Amazon, Baidu, Tencent, you name it. If you talk to the enterprise, they have a view of what edge needs to be. If you talk to the telcos, they are bringing the telecom stack close to the edge. And then if you talk to the IoT vendors, they have a perception of edge. So each of them are solving the edge problems differently. What LF Edge is doing, is it is unifying a framework and set of frameworks, that allow you to create a common life cycle management framework for edge computing. >> Yeah. >> Now the best part of it is, it's built on five exciting technologies. So people ask, "You know, why now?" So, there are five technologies that are converging at the same time. 5G, low latency. NFV, network function virtualization, so on demand. AI, so predictive analytics for machine learning. Container and microservices app development, so you can really write apps really fast. And then, hardware development: TPU, GPU, NPU. Lots of exciting different size and shapes. All five converging; put it close to the apps, and you have a whole new market. >> This is, first of all, complicated in the sense of... cluttered, fragmented, shifting grounds, so it's an opportunity. >> It's an opportunity. >> So, I get that- fragmented, you've got the clouds, you've got the enterprises, and you've got the telcos all doing their own thing. >> Yep. >> So, multiple technologies exploding. 5G, Wi-Fi 6, a bunch of other things you laid out, >> Mhmm. >> all happening. But also, you have all those suppliers, right? >> Yes. >> And, so you have different manufacturers-- >> And different layers. >> So it's multiple dimensions to the complexity. >> Correct, correct. >> What are you guys seeing, in terms of, as a solution, what's motivating the founding members; when you say unifying, what specifically does that mean? >> What that means is, the entire ecosystem from those markets are coming together to solve common problems. And I always sort of joke around, but it's true- the common problems are really the plumbing, right? It's the common life cycle management, how do you start, stop, boot, load, log, you know, things like that. How do you abstract? Now in the Edge, you've 400, 500 interfaces that comes into an IoT or an edge device. You know, Zigbee, Bluetooth, you've got protocols like M2T; things that are legacy and new. Then you have connectivity to the clouds. Devices of various forms and shapes. So there's a lot of end by end problems, as we call it. So, the cloud players. So for LF Edge for example, Tencent and Baidu and the cloud leaders are coming together and saying, "Let's solve it once." The industrial IoT player, like Dynamic, OSIsoft, they're coming in saying, "Let's solve it once." The telcos- AT&T, NTT, they're saying "Let's solve it once. And let's solve this problem in open-source. Because we all don't need to do it, and we'll differentiate on top." And then of course, the classic system vendors that support these markets are all joining hands. >> Talk about the business pressure real quick. I know, you look at, say, Alibaba for instance, and the folks you mentioned, Tencent, in China. They're perfecting the edge. You've got videos at the edge; all kinds of edge devices; people. >> Correct. >> So there's business pressures, as well. >> The business pressure is very simple. The innovation has to speed up. The cost has to go down. And new apps are coming up, so extra revenue, right? So because of these five technologies I mentioned, you've got the top killer apps in edge are anything that is, kind of, video but not YouTube. So, anything that the video comes from 360 venues, or drones, things like that. Plus, anything that moves, but that's not a phone. So things like connected cars, vehicles. All of those are edge applications. So in LF Edge, we are defining edge as an application that requires 20 milliseconds or less latency. >> I can't wait for someone to define- software define- "edge". Or, it probably is defined. A great example- I interviewed an R&D engineer at VMware yesterday in San Francisco, it was at the RADIO event- and we were just riffing on 5G, and talking about software at the edge. And one of the advances >> Yes. >> that's coming is splicing the frequency so that you can put software in the radios at the antennas, >> Correct. Yeah. >> so you can essentially provision, in real time. >> Correct, and that's a telco use case, >> Yeah. >> so our projects at the LF Edge are EdgeX Foundry, Akraino, Edge Virtualization Engine, Open Glossary, Home Edge. There's five and growing. And all of these software projects can allow you to put edge blueprints. And blueprints are really reference solutions for smart cities, manufacturing, telcos, industrial gateways, et cetera et cetera. So, lots of-- >> It's kind of your fertile ground for entrepreneurship, too, if you think about it, >> Correct; startups are huge. >> because, just the radio software that splices the radio spectrum is going to potentially maybe enable a service provider market, and towers, right? >> Correct, correct. >> Own my own land, I can own the tower and rent it out, one radio. >> Yep. >> So, business model innovations also an opportunity, >> It's a huge-- >> not just the business pressure to have an edge, but-- >> Correct. So technology, business, and market pressures. All three are colliding. >> Yeah, perfect storm. >> So edge is very exciting for us, and we had some new announcements come out in May, and more exciting news to come out in June, as well. >> And so, going back to Linux Foundation. If I want to learn more. >> LFEdge.org. >> That's kind of the CNCF of edge, if you will, right? Kind of thing. >> Yeah. It's an umbrella with all the projects, and that's equivalent to the CNCF, right. >> Yeah. >> And of course it's a huge group. >> So it's kind of momentum. 64 founding members-- >> Huge momentum. Yeah, now we are at 70 founding members, and growing. >> And how long has it been around? >> The umbrella has been around for about five months; some of the projects have been around for a couple of years, as they incubate. >> Well let us know when the events start kicking in. We'll get theCUBE down there to cover it. >> Absolutely. >> Super exciting. Again, multiple dimensions of innovation. Alright, next topic, one of my favorites, is AI and deep learning. AI's great. If you don't have data you can't really make AI work; deep learning requires data. So this is a data conversation. What's going on in the Linux Foundation around AI and deep learning? >> Yeah. So we have a foundation called LF Deep Learning, as you know. It was launched last year, and since then we have significantly moved it forward by adding more members, and obviously the key here is adding more projects, right. So our goal in the LF Deep Learning Foundation is to bring the community of data scientists, researchers, entrepreneurs, academia, and users to collaborate. And create frameworks and platforms that don't require a PhD to use. >> So a lot of data ingestion, managing data, so not a lot of coding, >> Platforms. >> more data analyst, and/or applications? >> It's more, I would say, platforms for use, right? >> Yeah. >> So frameworks that you can actually use to get business outcomes. So projects include Acumos, which is a machine learning framework and a marketplace which allows you to, sort of, use a lot of use cases that can be commonly put. And this is across all verticals. But I'll give you a telecom example. For example, there is a use case, which is drones inspecting base stations-- >> Yeah. >> And doing analytics for maintenance. That can be fed into a marketplace, used by other operators worldwide. You don't have to repeat that. And you don't need to understand the details of machine learning algorithms. >> Yeah. >> So we are trying to do that. There are projects that have been contributed from Tencent, Baidu, Uber, et cetera. Angel, Elastic Deep Learning, Pyro. >> Yeah. >> It's a huge investment for us. >> And everybody wins when there's contribution, because data's one of those things where if there's available, it just gets smarter. >> Correct. And if you look at deep learning, and machine learning, right. I mean obviously there's the classic definition; I won't go into that. But from our perspective, we look at data and how you can share the data, and so from an LF perspective, we have something called a CDLA license. So, think of an Apache for data. How do you share data? Because it's a big issue. >> Big deal. >> And we have solved that problem. Then you can say, "Hey, there's all these machine learning algorithms," you know, TensorFlow, and others, right. How can you use it? And have plugins to this framework? Then there's the infrastructure. Where do you run these machine learning? Like if you run it on edge, you can run predictive maintenance before a machine breaks down. If you run it in the core, you can do a lot more, right? So we've done that level of integration. >> So you're treating data like code. You can bring data to the table-- >> And then-- >> Apply some licensing best practices like Apache. >> Yes, and then integrate it with the machine learning, deep learning models, and create platforms and frameworks. Whether it's for cloud services, for sharing across clouds, elastic searching-- >> And Amazon does that in terms of they vertically integrate SageMaker, for instance. >> That's exactly right. >> So it's a similar-- >> And this is the open-source version of it. >> Got it- oh, that's awesome. So, how does someone get involved here, obviously developers are going to love this, but-- >> LF Deep Learning is the place to go, under Linux Foundation, similar to LF Edge, and CNCF. >> So it's not just developers. It's also people who have data, who might want to expose it in. >> Data scientists, databases, algorithmists, machine learning, and obviously, a whole bunch of startups. >> A new kind of developer, data developer. >> Right. Exactly. And a lot of verticals, like the security vertical, telecom vertical, enterprise verticals, finance, et cetera. >> You know, I've always said- you and I talked about this before, and I always rant on theCUBE about this- I believe that there's going to be a data development environment where data is code, kind of like what DevOps did with-- >> It's the new currency, yeah. >> It's the new currency. >> Yeah. Alright, so final area I want to chat with you before we get into the OSS China thing: networking. >> Yeah. >> Near and dear to your heart. >> Near and dear to my-- >> Networking's hot now, because if you bring IoT, edge, AI, networking, you've got to move things around-- >> Move things around, (laughs) right, so-- >> And you still need networking. >> So we're in the second year of the LF Networking journey, and we are really excited at the progress that has happened. So, projects like ONAP, OpenDaylight, Tungsten Fabric, OPNFV, FDio, I mean these are now, I wouldn't say household names, but business enterprise names. And if you've seen, pretty much all the telecom providers- almost 70% of the subscribers covered, enabled by the service providers, are now participating. Vendors are completely behind it. So we are moving into a phase which is really the deployment phase. And we are starting to see, not just PoCs [Proofs of Concept], but real deployments happening, some of the major carriers now. Very excited, you know, Dublin, ONAP's Dublin release is coming up, OPNFV just released the Hunter release. Lots of exciting work in Fido, to sort of connect-- >> Yeah. >> multiple projects together. So, we're looking at it, the big news there is the launch of what's called OVP. It's a compliance and verification program that cuts down the deployment time of a VNF by half. >> You know, it's interesting, Stu and I always talk about this- Stu Miniman, CUBE cohost with me- about networking, you know, virtualization came out and it was like, "Oh networking is going to change." It's actually helped networking. >> It helped networking. >> Now you're seeing programmable networks come out, you see Cisco >> And it's helped. >> doing a lot of things, Juniper as well, and you've got containers in Kubernetes right around the corner, so again, this is not going to change the need, it's going to- It's not going to change >> It's just a-- >> the desire and need of networking, it's going to change what networking is. How do you describe that to people? Someone saying, "Yeah, but tell me what's going on in networking? Virtualization, we got through that wave, now I've got the container, Kubernetes, service mesh wave, how does networking change? >> Yeah, so it's a four step process, right? The first step, as you rightly said, virtualization, moved into VMs. Then came disaggregation, which was enabled by the technology SDN, as we all know. Then came orchestration, which was last year. And that was enabled by projects like ONAP and automation. So now, all of the networks are automated, fully running, self healing, feedback closed control, all that stuff. And networks have to be automated before 5G and IoT and all of these things hit, because you're no longer talking about phones. You're talking about things that get connected, right. So that's where we are today. And that journey continues for another two years, and beyond. But very heavy focused on deployment. And while that's happening, we're looking at the hybrid version of VMs and containers running in the network. How do you make that happen? How do you translate one from the other? So, you know, VNFs, CNFs, everything going at the same time in your network. >> You know what's exciting is with the software abstractions emerging, the hard problems are starting to emerge because as it gets more complicated, end by end problems, as you said, there's a lot of new costs and complexities, for instance, the big conversation at the Edge is, you don't want to move data around. >> No, no. >> So you want to move compute to the edge, >> You can, yeah-- >> But it's still a networking problem, you've still got edge, so edge, AI, deep learning, networking all tied together-- >> They're all tied together, right, and this is where Linux Foundation, by developing these projects, in umbrellas, but then allowing working groups to collaborate between these projects, is a very simple governance mechanism we use. So for example, we have edge working groups in Kubernetes that work with LF Edge. We have Hyperledger syncs that work for telecoms. So LFN and Hyperledger, right? Then we have automotive-grade Linux, that have connected cars working on the edge. Massive collaboration. But, that's how it is. >> Yeah, you connect the dots but you don't, kind of, force any kind of semantic, or syntax >> No. >> into what people can build. >> Each project is autonomous, >> Yeah. >> and independent, but related. >> Yeah, it's smart. You guys have a good view, I'm a big fan of what you guys are doing. Okay, let's talk about the Open Source Summit and KubeCon, happening in China, the week of the 24th of June. >> Correct. >> What's going on, there's a lot of stuff going on beyond Cloud Native and Linux, what are some of the hot areas in China that you guys are going to be talking about? I know you're going over. >> Yeah, so, we're really excited to be there, and this is, again, life beyond Linux and Cloud Native; there's a whole dimension of projects there. Everything from the edge, and the excitement of Iot, cloud edge. We have keynotes from Tencent, and VMware, and all the Chinese- China Mobile and others, that are all focusing on the explosive growth of open-source in China, right. >> Yeah, and they have a lot of use cases; they've been very aggressive on mobility, Netdata, >> Very aggressive on mobility, data, right, and they have been a big contributor to open-source. >> Yeah. >> So all of that is going to happen there. A lot of tracks on AI and deep learning, as a lot more algorithms come out of the Tencents and the Baidus and the Alibabas of the world. So we have tracks there. We have huge tracks on networking, because 5G and implementation of ONAP and network automation is all part of the umbrella. So we're looking at a cross-section of projects in Open Source Summit and KubeCon, all integrated in Shanghai. >> And a lot of use cases are developing, certainly on the edge, in China. >> Correct. >> A lot of cross pollination-- >> Cross pollination. >> A lot of fragmentation has been addressed in China, so they've kind of solved some of those problems. >> Yeah, and I think the good news is, as a global community, which is open-source, whether it's Europe, Asia, China, India, Japan, the developers are coming together very nicely, through a common governance which crosses boundaries. >> Yeah. >> And building on use cases that are relevant to their community. >> And what's great about what you guys have done with Linux Foundation is that you're not taking positions on geographies, because let the clouds do that, because clouds have-- >> Clouds have geographies, >> Clouds, yeah they have agents-- >> Edge may have geography, they have regions. >> But software's software. (laughs) >> Software's software, yeah. (laughs) >> Arpit, thanks for coming in. Great insight, loved talking about networking, the deep learning- congratulations- and obviously the IoT Edge is hot, and-- >> Thank you very much, excited to be here. >> Have a good trip to China. Thanks for coming in. >> Thank you, thank you. >> I'm John Furrier here for CUBE Conversation with the Linux Foundation; big event in China, Open Source Summit, and KubeCon in Shanghai, week of June 24th. It's a CUBE Conversation, thanks for watching.

>> from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering the em. Where Radio twenty nineteen brought to you by the PM where >> hi. Welcome to the Cube. Lisa Martin with John Furrier way are in the middle of the excitement and the action at the, um where Radio twenty nineteen in San Francisco. Please welcome back to the Cube. David Tennant House, the chief research officer at the end. Where. David Welcome back. >> Thank you. It's always great to have the Cube here radio, >> and it's we had in a really exciting day. And then suddenly this whole space opens up and you can imagine all the innovation and the collaboration that's going on in here. This is the fifteenth radio. This is just one of several big programs that the M where does that really inspires and fosters this really collaborative, innovative culture? You've been here for five years. You came from Microsoft tells a little bit about what makes not just radio, but the emir's culture of innovation unique and really gives it some competitive advantage in the market. >> Yeah, well, so that you know, I think there's a number of different things there. People are super passionate about technology I think there's also this shared thing at P m. Where which is, you know, we're a little understated, right? We're not a big consumer brand. And, you know, we almost pride ourselves in creating technology that goes under the covers, right? So whether it's inside the data center, you know, can we make, you know, with virtual ization, right, Khun? Oui. Make it so that you can run ten times as many virtual machines as you had physical machines and the applications never have to know, right? So that's kind of, you know, for us, it's perfect, technically hard problem and, you know, a little understated. So that kind of, you know, fits with our culture. I think another thing that we found, you know, having a research group often a challenge. His researchers will go to people in the product teams, and they sort of want to start the discussion. I've got this new idea, and maybe it could really help you with your product. And, you know, meanwhile, of course, the product people are, you know, they're working against deadlines. They want to get stuff out. They don't want people derailing their, you know, their agenda and their work. So something we find at PM where which is really I find unique, is let's say we goto a product team in many other companies environments, and I'm really not naming anyone. What happens is you gotta have a discussion with somebody who sort of, you know, is the expert on whatever name your technology and you say the reason starting point isn't Hey, I've got this whole new way of doing your stuff, right? Starting point is can you tell me how your stuff works? And usually the response that other companies is. Why do you want to know? Right. It's a really pointed defense of we find it. The m where is really people are incredibly open. I don't, you know, know exactly how this got embedded in the culture. Maybe because it was a spin off from the university, but deeply embedded in this culture is Oh, yeah, let me tell you how this stuff works. And, uh, you know, maybe you'LL have a better idea. We don't even have to start with, You know, we have a better idea. It's like, you know, and then from there way can have ongoing discussions about >> Oh, that prints and improve it. That Cruz, why you have a community? Yeah, transparent creates openness that creates solidarity around open >> concept. Exactly. And and that's kind of what you see here. Radio. I don't know if people can see in the background is This is, you know, already day for in the Expo Hall and people don't want to leave and they're walking around. They're looking at each other's posters, they're talking to each other, making connections, and then they're going to build on those connections in the coming, you know, week. It's months and over the next year. And, you know, this is they said, you know, this has been going on for four days. You think that by now people have seen all the posters, they talked about everything there is still finding things that they want to talk to the kid. >> The candy store is a lot to taste here and learn ivory engaged graphic contents good and congratulations and thank you. And I just want to add, >> like something I love is, uh, getting here. Actually, before people arrive on the first day each year because when they come in, it's like greeting old friends right. It's sort of like a reunion except nobody's worried about, you know, like school reunion. You know, people are just playing happy to see each other, so that fits with that community thing, you know, because sometimes they're there in their teams and they don't necessarily get what you're being humble. We've talked last year about some of the content you put together in the team, so it's not. It's a hive mind, but you're the chief researcher, >> So you've gotta figure out on at least some canvas to start shaping framing sets of agendas to go after that. So if you can. So Lisa and I were just talking about this here today about how if you have a tech canvas, you don't want to create barriers of thinking. You want to open it up but not make it two restricted. That's your job. What can you tell us about the research agenda that's here and way out there and how how do you see that aperture range >> of yeah topics? Well, I think you know, I want to re first before even getting into that agenda, reaffirm a key point you made right, which is don't constrain people too much. So radio, by the way, is really very, you know, bottoms up. This is not about saying, you know, here's the four topics people really submit. It's a very competitive process people want to be. Not every engineering BM where gets to come to radio, right? It's it's eighteen hundred developers, which is an incredible commitment by the company. He's still a small fraction of our community, so they're actually submitting, you know, bottoms up, uh, to you know, see you and then we have a program committee that reviews it. So that's Ah, bottoms up part of the process from where I sit, You know what I think happens is whether it's our research team or filtering. You know, we'LL look at what comes. Bottoms up and say, Well, what's the signal to noise? For example, there's you know, we've had this year a tremendous amount of machine learning activity, and you see this in the posters here and in the presentations. However, you know that it wasn't too hard to detect a rising signal a couple years ago. So in that case a couple years ago, we said, OK, this is important. We see it in the external community way see it in the developer community. We see it within our own teams and developers. Clearly important. So starting a few years ago, we pulled together some of the senior most technologists, the principal engineers, a subset of them, and said, Hey, we want you guys to dio what we call a of a test study for tests are going faster, but also Veum, Where? Technology Study. We want you to actually do a strategy, but not a business strategy. Technology strategy. Look at the landscape of this. Look at where we are. Look at where we need to be and start charting a course. So in that sense, what we you know, coming out of that was, for example, information of an internal machine Learning program office? Who? One of them gold. It's billed the ML community. You talked about that before. Inside the company. It's not just a technical goal, it's an organizational on community goal. And that's just sort of, you know, kind of one example that wasn't the only output of that. But it's it's one example and what you see a big surprise, you know, kind of ten x, the engagement in the space so that that would be, you know, one case. I think one of the key things is, well, pick up on different topics. And then the thing that we do that I think it's different from some other companies to stop and say what our enterprise is going to need to do because at the end of the war in enterprise company and our customers, our enterprises and their needs her actually, although they're in different verticals, for example, let me just use machine learning. But it could be blockchain. It could be I ot. Actually, what they need is different from, say, the machine learning that that the hyper scale er's needs. So we realised that actually, there's a very interesting needs for us to explore the underserved parts of machine learning because all of these companies, if you look at them, they have a larger number of machine learning problems to work on the hyper scaler. You know, Facebook, Google, love them. They're actually working on a very focused set of problems, right? It's you know it's at serving. It's the social network graph. It's, you know, cat photo recognition, and I don't mean to knock those and they've got a great business is built around them. But notice it's a small number of problems. They do it it immense scale. Okay, given Enterprise probably wants to apply machine learning to a large number of problems, they're not going to run each of those problems on a million servers there, actually, probably running those problems on tens or hundreds of the EMS, right? And so what's the technology they need to address those problems and you can go through way looked at, you know, machine learning That way. We looked at I ot that when he said, You know, look, we think the analytics and the M L. That's a really cool things. We want to play in that space, too. But you know what everybody's trying to do. That, and not a lot of attention being paid to our enterprise is going to secure right and and managed all these I O T devices and the gateways to the devices. So we chartered a strategy for both research and business in that space, watching same thing, really exciting technology Now for enterprises, it's not about big point. It's not about currency, right? It's a money decentralized trust. It's an infrastructure for decentralized trust and effectively think of this is, you know, a database like thing. Except now it's going to be shared across many different organizations. And it's going to change how organizations work with each other and how they work with their auditors on how they work with their regulators. So this is great. >> But, you know, let's focus on what am I the way I just retweeted while you were talking? I just got a clip from last year. I asked you that question about Blockchain. You nailed it Way talked about how all the hype and fraud and i CEOs and confusing it. Yeah, but the world kept moving along. A lot of progress on the supply chain side, lots of interest, rafters trust. He sat realized that it's not about >> the eye. Indio. Yeah, so wave you, that is, You know that there's the high poker and, you know, they'LL be a deflation after the hiker passes. But there's real signal under there and so, you know, and we just turn our strategy and we keep marching down that path, and we're, you know, building up more partners, more people to work with. So it's it's that sort of thing. Quantum computing, right? We're not, you know, developing our own quantum computers. I can tell you that right now, and we're not even doing quantum algorithms. I have some albums researchers, but they're not doing quantum algorithm. You know, I kind of wish we were doing some of that stuff, but what we did do, and we looked at this and we said, Okay, hold on a key challenges. Uh, when the quantum computers do show up, we're going to need to transition to new cryptography to quantum resistant. You know, our post quantum there. Two terms, they're used. Cryptography enterprise customers are going to need to do that. Well, one second, they can't wait till this shows up. It takes ten years. Change your crypto. And by the way, you know if you've encrypted data and other people got a copy of your encrypted data, if it's long living data like, you know, health care records, you don't want them decrypting that in five or ten years. So you got a sort of start now and again, this goes back to what oh enterprise customers need to do Well, okay. The new crypto standards for miffed and others aren't quite ready, Okay, but But by the time they're ready, it's going to be too late to get started. Okay, But we could start working with our customers to work on crypto agility to change how they handle their cryptography. First off, get a good inventory of it, and then get set up so that they're using essentially plug mobile libraries so that it's easier for them to change their cryptography as soon as the standard shows up. And by the way, even if quantum computing takes a lot longer than we all think, this is good hygiene anyway. In other words, it's just a no regrets move for our customers and Khun. We sort of help them go down that path. And this is an example where we can actually also partner with our colleagues that are, say, other parts of Del technologies to help make that work for We're working with others in the industry, you know, intel, and we've kind of convened a form of players within the industry. You know, start working in that direction again. What do enterprise you know, what's the cool new technology. What oh enterprises need. >> So you talked about this event being open in terms of like the agenda and the topics being driven from the bottom of it, That gets really cool. So in the spirit of talking about customers and, like you were saying designing for what enterprises need and all of the variations that encompasses where is customer influence not just a radio, but within the em wears research and innovation programs and strategy. What's that? I mean, I just Advisors don't like that. It's >> a great question. So, like many companies, you know, we do have various advisory body's right, so we bring them in and, well, we'Ll sort of half like, you know, the sea tabs are customer technical advisory body. So the more technical people in some of our kind of more leading customers and we'LL show them things that we're working on, you know, under any kind of India arrangement, and get their feedback, you know, sort of OK, Does this make sense? You know? If not, why not? If it does, you know often it's not that finery, right? It's how would you use it? And we really sort of them give that feedback backto our teams. Now many people do this kind of thing, so we have lots of other customer engagements. We bring customers into forms like radio to be on panels, breakouts, things like that to give presentation so that basically, let's face it in one or two events, that's not going to convey much signal to our engineers. It's a madam, a six storey engineers way want you to be out talking to customers, right? So getting our engineers to be at PM world but way have programmes to actually allow engineers and encourage them to get out, make customer visits above and beyond. And by the way, if you look at it again, our principal engineers in our fellows I think what you find is the vast bulk of them are distinguished because they love engaging with customers. They don't just do it because it's part of the job. They love getting that feedback, so it actually helps them in their career, and we try to sort of essentially teach that to folks. One of the programs we have that in the CTO office, but I love it's not him. It's not in my part, So you know this is a case of I love all the things that we have that just my own, You know, uh, is it's like it's like loving your nieces and nephews, right? Not just your own children way. You were going to ask you your favorite child so way have, like, the CTO ambassadors program, Uh, which basically is coming from the field. So we have, you know, field engineers. They're not on the development side, but these air super technical people that are out in the field touching our customers all the time in any company, there's always a subset of those folks that just have a really good intuitions for where the customers are going and are good at raising their hands about that. So way actually have a program with CTO Ambassador Program CTO way where, you know, literally we give them a pin right way, give them a bad on DH. So we've tried to identify that subset of the field engineers and way regularly bring them in, you know, to pollo alter or bring them together. Whether it's a V m world or radio or whatever again, same thing. We're going to let them know what we've got cooking. We're going to get their feedback. We're gonna hear from them on. And this is not just on research right away. This is on the product pipe lines. You know what's going on in the road map and everything else now to me again. That's just actually a starting point. Because when I put my people in front of Seo is its telling my people, this is the group of folks. When you have a new idea, don't just talk to the product people go find CTO is because, you know, one of the best ways and I'm gonna be a little selfish. One of the best ways for us to influence the customers it influence the company is to get customers excited about something you were doing right. So you know Helen Lawson talk about technology push. And if you really want to be a success, we'LL get innovating it. In a large company, you need to create whole absolutely, and so the CDOs are great. They help us find people to do posies with, because you have to find just the right. You have to find a customer that has a need for this new stuff, but they also have to be somebody that understands this isn't yet a product. This is a journey, right? We're going to jointly try something out. You're gonna learn about whether this new tech can help you and how it could help you. We're going to learn what the product ultimately means, but, you know, you're not gonna be able to actually take out your checkbook at the end and get it right away. So you have toe, you know, be comfortable investing the time and energy, and then they have >> a spy in three that is really one of the core elements that's essential to drive innovation. >> Absolutely. And you need that. As I said, you need that customer partnership to help fine tune things. It's, you know, one of the things more broadly I try to do with research team is, you know, on the one, and give them the freedom to say, Hey, I have a new idea and I want to explore that new idea. That's great. Now, if you think about it right, then they're running open. Luke, they're running based on, you know, kind of their guesses. What educated guess. Right? And their intuition what people might want in the future. So that's good. What a then do it say. Okay, that's great. Uh, you know, you did a little bit. You wrote a paper build a prototype. Okay, so now they get a prototype bill. Okay, That starts getting this idea little more concrete. They're okay with that. The next step, it sort of is. Okay. Now, >> you got to >> get somebody to use that prototype, because I need you to get. And you need you to get feedback and create a feedback loop. Because otherwise, what's gonna happen is they made that first intuitive guests. So let's say they had their really phenomenal and they have a seventy five percent chance of getting it right. Okay, that that. But if they now continue to make a series of educated guesses and they have, ah, you know, seventy eighty percent chance on each educated guests and they make a siri's of four or five of those they have almost, you know, very quickly, close to zero chance of being in the right spot if you just multiply out the probabilities. But if they make that first big league and they start getting customer feedback That actually helps them right get more and more focused on where the bull's eye is. You have a really great chance of changing, >> so they don't build this great technology with no customers. Crichton second >> don't want somebody for a problem, right? But if you want to, you know, kind of have >> some really big ball change. You've >> got to be. >> Well, you've got to be willing to make that first big step without the feedback because the customers don't wear right. And if you just went to the customers said if you had this, what would you do? And they probably say, No, no, no. Instead of that, I want another feature over here. So you got to go and build that first prototype and take the leap of faith. The issue is, if you compound the leap of faith, your odds of being successful slope. If you quickly get into the hands of the customers, get feedback and start focusing in on where the value is, your chance goes up dramatically. >> Awesome. I wish we had more time with you, David. We're gonna let you get back to all of the amazing innovation that I have no doubt it's going on right behind us. Thank you. Something, Johnny on the Cube today. >> Look forward to seeing you again soon. >> Absolutely. For John Ferrier, I'm least Martin. You're watching the cubes. Exclusive coverage of the young Where? Radio twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching.

>> Woman: From San Fransisco, it's theCUBE, covering VMware Radio 2019. Brought to you by VMware. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage of VMware's Radio 2019, Lisa Martin with John Furrier, John, we started really bright and early this morning with a very excited Pat Gelsinger. VMware, this is the fifteenth Radio, Radio is R&D innovation offsite. There's about 1800 VMware engineers from lots of B.U.s, very competitive event, very passion driven event, and really just is a... what a great manifestation of the VMware culture and the spirit of innovation. >> This is the best of the best event, and the story around Radio 2019 is really a cumulation of multiple years, as you pointed out, of cultural innovation, engineering. VMware has always been an engineering culture, coming out of Stanford, and from day one they've had that guiding principle. They've also been open and transparent, as we heard on theCUBE interviews today, that has created the culture of community. Open Source dives beautifully into it. And so radio is about that cumulation of the talent. It's the best of the best internally, they submit papers, it's a bottoms-up process, so it's truly a meritocracy from an engineering standpoint. But it's a culture of engineering, and their job is to come up with the future, and what's notable about this event is it's the second year now theCUBE's been here. Last year was the first year they've invited press, so three outlets from the media were allowed, were one of them. And we get exposed, we get to look under the hood, and look at the engine of innovation coming down the road for VMware and their partners. So, it's a super exciting event, Radio is a community within VMware that's now global, 50% outside of North America and the United States, all a bottoms-up, a hive mind, we heard that here. Really successful for VMware to continue this, bringing the press in, get the stories out there, take that transparency and open message from the content. We can share it, we get access to the data, it's a beautiful co-creation formula with theCUBE and VMware. It's a success, and their challenge is can they take it global and extend it. >> And this is day four of Radio19 and you can hear the amount of people that are still here, still passionate, these are projects that they're doing outside of their day jobs. So, the transparency that you talked about, I loved when we were talking with David Tennenhouse about the bottoms-up approach, that this is not a set agenda, we're going to talk about Blockchain, and IOT, and security, this is driven as you said, from thousand-plus submissions of people who want to have papers presented here. >> People don't want to leave, because this is like a kid in the candy store, it's like being intoxicated with technology and there's so much content here. Now that's also a bellwether and a barometer of the company. If R&D is weak, you don't have the innovation. There's companies that don't really invest in R&D, they wouldn't have this kind of mojo or this kind of excitement. But VMware prides themselves on doing 15% R&D, that's way outside the box. The rest is all done within the constraints of what they're doing in the market, so relevance is high, but still room to play and dream the future. And again, I've always believed that you can't dream it up, you can't build it. >> Now of course, VMware, all about, as every business should be, we needed to be developing products and solutions and services that the market needs to solve real-world problems. One of the cool things we learned about today, John, is, from the EMEA CTO John Bagley, is the CTO Ambassador program, the CTOA program, where there are folks, and this is also a competitive program, it's a couple, I think you said a four year tenure to get folks through the program, but being out in the field, in customer sights, learning about all these enterprise organizations, what they actually need, so in that spirit of openness that you talked about, they're bringing in customer information, building and fostering relationships, so that what they're investing in from an R&D standpoint, is going to be able to solve customer problems that they don't even know they have today. >> Yeah, that Champion program, that Ambassador CTO program, that Joe mentioned, what's interesting about VMware, and this is what I love, I admire about the company, as well as companies like AWS and Amazon web services, the people are smart and they think about scaling. So, that's kind of a cliché these days, how does it scale, makes you look smarter if you ask that question, but VMware actually thinks about how to scale, and so, the problem that they had was, they had these field CTOs that were out evangelizing with customers half the time, and doing internal real CTO work around architecture with the teams to build great stuff and move that to market, they couldn't scale. So they used their community of their own ecosystem to find people to come in and replicate. You heard Joe Bagley, "I had to be Steve Herrod," cause he can't be everywhere. That's the mindset of this culture, and I think they have real opportunity to crush it at Open Source, they have a real opportunity to take the Radio culture, and superimpose that in as a new way to do work, new way to create distributed, decentralized teams, and ultimately better software, and at the end of the day, they have to attract great engineers and keep them, work on hard problems, because, Pat's ambitious. And we know Pat. What he says, and what's real, they're all catching up to Pat. Pat has this great vision and he's nailing it, but the engineers got to build what Pat says they got to do. When he says "I'm abstracting away Kubernetes, as an abstraction layer," yeah that sounds simple, but it's really hard to do. >> Absolutely, and I want to get your perspective too, on this, not just the culture of innovation, that you talked about, that VMware has had for a very long time, but also in the spirit of VMware leveraging their innovation programs like Radio, to attract and retain this high quality talent, from your perspective, how does a conference like this, which is kind of academic in nature, it's kind of like a science fair for engineers, how does it differ from some of the other companies, like a Google that say "we have innovation programs." In your perspective, how is this different? >> Well, Google actually is fairly similar in the sense that they came out of Stanford, they have that kind of ethos of academic. Facebook is exactly the opposite, he wants to be Bill Gates, and be like Microsoft, as I was saying the other day. Google's internal stuff is pretty strong, they don't externalize it, and that's why Google Cloud's having such a hard time gaining market shares, that they're not good on the external game. Their thing is the SAS offering, it's all programmable. They're awesome at technology, but they're not good at externalizing it. So, I think Google's struggle is not a lot of internal to external translation. What Radio has done successfully, and we heard a little bit here, was they took it from the Palo Alto bubble, which Google lives in, and they've extended it beyond to the rest of the world, so 50% of the Radio attendees here are from outside the United States. So what they got right is, they've actually externalized it better, they're allowing press to come in, the storytelling that we're doing, that's going on, the collaboration here, is about people collaborating, that's why this successful. And it a world where everything's open, and information's freely available, there's a an audience for "high end," tech nerd activity. This is, this meets the high bar of the geeks of the best of the best, and so why isn't it being covered? Well, it is. We are here. >> You're right, we are here. And also, if you look at, it's one thing for companies to have innovative cultures, but it's another thing, some of the key elements that really can catalyze innovation are partnerships, diversity, that come to mind, both of which VMware does very, very well. Big foci on partnerships, which we've seen and heard about here as well, as well as, not just diversity and gender and things, but also thought diversity, and how groups from completely disparate business units can come together, either organically, before Radio, or even probably, can you imagine the hallway conversations that are going on here? Where suddenly, these different ideas are coming together. Partnerships and diversity are really catalysts for VMware's innovation- >> Well that's a great point, one of the first, on the partnership side, clearly a catalyst, because of multi-cloud and cloud native, seeing that. Diversity is a homerun for them, because they are a diverse culture, but look, how many women are here? Not many, I mean still, more than some, still a lot more work to do. But diversity of opinion, the inclusion that VMware has, they're a very inclusive company. So, it's not like, I just don't think there's enough population of women, in my opinion, that are in the community. But they're inclusive, there's different people with different backgrounds, different technical backgrounds, so from so from a quote "diversity" skill set, it's a melting pot. You've got people talking about carbon fiber, sustainability, to kubernetes, all kind of coming together. So I think diversity's a real strength for them. >> So we heard, I know you had a really, really intriguing Blockchain conversation today. We talked a lot about some of those emerging technologies, Vmworld 2019, which theCUBE will be at, for, I believe the tenth year, it's just around the corner. What excites you about some of the things you heard today that you think we might hear more about in August? >> What excited me about VMworld is what Pat Gelsinger said off camera, that it's going to be a ton of news, a ton of activity, and I think if you look at what VMware's doing, again, like I said, Pat Gelsinger's got an amazing vision, and I think he's cleared the runway, or sailed away from the icebergs. VMware's in a really good market position right now. They have great growth going on, and, look, the organic innovation here at Radio, amazing. Content's solid, people are still buzzing for it, they could probably stay here for a week, two weeks. Acquisitions, CloudHealth, Bitnami, again, two smart acquisitions, they're making smart deals, the ecosystem's evolving, it's a new VMware. So I think Vmworld is going to be, have a spring to its step this year, I think you'll see a lot of action, they'll be two CUBE sets again this year, it's going to be a different company next ten years, VMWare, than it was the past ten years. >> Well, I'm excited to be there with theCUBE, two sets as you mentioned, my interest is certainly heightened after some of the things we heard today. John, as always, I had a blast co-hosting with you. You got some awesome swag to go home with. Until next time, right? >> Yeah. >> All right, for John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin, you've been watching our exclusive coverage of VMware Radio2019 from San Fransisco. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: From San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering VMware Radio 2019. Brought to you by VMware. >> Hi, welcome to theCUBE's exclusive coverage of VMware Radio 2019. Lisa Martin with John Furrier, in San Francisco. This is an internal R&D innovation off site that VMware does, lots of innovation going on here from engineers from all over the globe. We're pleased to welcome Joe Baguley, the CTO from EMEA, from VMware. Joe, welcome to theCUBE. >> Hi. >> So we've been having some great conversations this morning about this tremendous amount of innovation, I mean the potential is massive. Not just from Radio, but from all the other innovation programs that VMware has, really speaks very strongly to the culture of innovation that VMware has had. But of course all this innovation has to be able to be harnessed to deliver what customers need. Talk to us about that, you're in the field, field CTO. What is that connection with the innovation that happens within VMware? How do customers help influence that and vice versa? >> Yeah, I think we're very unique in the structure that we've put around that to drive that innovation over the years. So my job as field CTO is, I call it sort of 50, 50. So 50% is Chief Technology Officer, which is this kind of stuff for Radio and 50% is Chief Talking Officer, which is out with our customers and presenting at conferences, et cetera. But the general remit is connecting R&D in the field. And so for eight years now I've been connecting R&D in the field at VMware, I actually did at my previous company as well. And what we've done is, we've built a series of programs over the years to do that, and one of the biggest ones is the CTO Ambassadors. And so that was, you know, you get to a point, you get to a growth size, I've been here eight years, and suddenly you need someone else to help you because I can't be everywhere. And the original role was, back in the day I was hired to scale Steve Herrod, because Steve Herrod couldn't be in Europe all the time, I was like mini Steve Herrod that could be there when needed. But then eventually I can't be in every European country and our major regions as we get bigger and bigger, and we've grown dramatically. So the CTO Ambassadors is to support that. And that's really, we've got 140 of our top customer facing techies from around the globe in this program called the Ambassadors. And they have to be customer facing, and they have to be individual contributors, so like a pre-sales manager or something doesn't count. They're a massively active community, there's a whole bunch of them here at Radio as well. And their job is really that conduit, that source of information, and also a sounding board, a much shorter range sounding board for R&D. So if R&D want to get a feel of what's going on, they don't have to ask everyone they can bounce off the Ambassadors, which is part of what we do, and that makes it easier. >> So like a filter too, they're also also filtering input from the field, packaging it up for R&D. >> Totally. Yeah, and when you're at an organization of our scale, filtering is really important. Because obviously, you can't have every customer directly talking to every engineer, it's never going to work. (laughs) >> I mean another radio project stay right there, a machine learning based champion CTO to go through all the feedback. >> Yeah, so I started my career, with my previous company doing that, I was the filter. So I'd get a hundred questions a day from various people in the field, and 99 of those I'd bounce right back because I knew the answer. But there was the one that I was like, uh. Then I'd turn around to R&D and ask them. But the great thing was that R&D knew that if I was asking then it was a real question, it wasn't the 99. So the CTO Ambassadors, and what we do in Octo Global field is really a method of scaling that. >> I want to ask you about that because that's a great example of here reputation comes in. Because your reputation is on the line if you go back and pull the fire alarm, if you will, send too many lame requests back, you're going to be lame. So you've got to kind of check, balance there. So that begs the question, how do you do the filtering for the champions that work for you? Is there a high bar? Is there a certain line? Like being a kid, you've got to be this tall to ride the roller coaster. Is there criteria? Is there certification? Take us through the filtering there. >> The Ambassador program is a rotating nomination system. So essentially there's a two year tenure. So what happens is, if you're in the field and you want to be an ambassador, which is a really prestigious thing, then you nominate yourself or get nominated and then people vote on you and you put forward your case, et cetera. Essentially it's a democratic process based on your peers and other people in the company. And then after you're allowed a maximum of two years. Sorry, two tenures so you get four years, if that makes sense, I'm not confusing you. >> John: So term limits? >> Yeah there's term limits, right, we have term limits. And after two terms you have to go out for a year to give someone else a chance because otherwise it will just glub- >> It'll turn into the US government. (laughs) >> But no, it's important to maintain freshness, maintain diversity and all those kind of things. And so it comes back to that filter piece we were talking about before. The reputation is massive, of the CTO Ambassadors. I mean when we started this six years ago as a program, most of R&D were like, who are these Ambassador guys? What value are they going to add? Now, if you're in R&D, one of the best things you can say, if you want to get something done, is what the CTO Ambassador said. I mean, literally it is, you can go and we have- >> John: The routine approach to that. Talk about how you guys add in a new category. So, for instance kubernetes, we saw this years ago when KubeCon was started, theCUBE was there present at the creation of that trend we kind of got it right away. Now Gelsinger and the team sees this as a massive traction layer. So that would be an example, where we need an Ambassador. So do you like just create one or how does that work? >> They create themselves, that's the best thing. So we have an annual conference which is in February, held in Paolo Alto where we all get together along with all the chief technologists, which is the level below me. And the principles, which the most senior field people. So literally the best of the best get together. It's about 200 plus get together for a week. And we are an hour and a half on on one with Pat for example, so Pat's there with all of us in a room. But one of the sessions we do is the shark tank, and there's two of them. One of them is, come up with your really cool, crazy, wacky ideas, and the other one is the acquisition shark tank. So there we get the MNA team, include our E-staff sit in, and the Ambassadors, as teams, will come in and present. We think we should acquire, uh because that's making a big difference. The great thing is, not nine times out of 10 but probably seven times out of 10, the E-staff are going, yeah we know about that, when actually we can't really tell you what's going on but yeah we know about them. But there's the two or three times out of 10 that people are like, oh yeah, so tell me more about them. And it might be a company that's just coming up, it might be 2013 and there's this company called Docker that no one's heard of, but the Ambassadors are shouting about Docker, and saying it's a big, you know. So there's that- >> So white space is too emerging you can see it's a telemetry, literally feedback from the field to direct management on business strategy. >> And our customers are pushing our field in directions faster than maybe R&D get pushed if you know what I mean. >> You guys deserve a lot of credit because Pat Gelsinger was just on this morning with Lisa and me, and we were talking about that. He just came back from the Sales President's club cruise, and one of the comments he said was the sales executive said, hey, who does strategy? Because everything's fitting together beautifully. Which kind of highlights how radiance this all progresses, not like magic, there's a process here, and this kind of points to your job is to fit that pieces in, is that correct? >> Yeah. People always say, as a CTO do you all sit down once a week and talk about strategy? And that's not what you do. There's a hive mind, there's a continual interaction, there's conference calls, there's phone calls, there's meetings, there's get togethers of various different types, groups, and levels. And what happens is there's themes that emerge over that. And so my role specifically, as the EMEA CTO is to represent Europe, Middle East, and Africa's voice in those conversations. And maybe the nuances that we might have around particular product requirements or whatever, to remind people that maybe sit in a bubble in Silicon Valley. >> John: I'm sure you raised your hand on privacy and GDPR? (laughs) >> Just a couple of times, yeah. Yeah, now and again. >> The canary in the coal mine is a really big point that helps companies, if they're not listening to the signals coming in. >> Well you do, and you see a lot. There's a lot of the tech companies that I see, it's often defined as the three bubbles, or your Massimo Re Ferrè, who's now at Amazon. When he was here, did this fantastic blog post talking about the first bubble is Silicon Valley, and the second bubble is North America, and the third bubble is everywhere else. And so you kind of watch these things emerge. And my job is to jump over that pop into the Silicon Valley bubble before something happens and say, no you should be thinking about X, you should think about Y. At an event like Radio I've got a force multiplier because I've got 40 plus Ambassadors with me all popping up at all these little booths you see behind you, and the shows, and the talks. >> And the goal here is not to be a bubble, but to be completely one hive mind. >> And the diversity at VMware just blows my mind, it really does. I think a lot of people comment on it quite often, and in fact I've been asked to be a non-exec director of other companies, to help them advise on their culture. Which is not in tech, in culture, which is quite interesting. And so the diversity that we have here is really infusing people to innovate in a way that they've not done before. It's that diverse set of opinions really helps. >> Well it does. And this, from what we've heard, Radio is a very, there's a lot of internal competition, it's like a badge of honor to be able to respond to the call for papers, let alone get selected. Touch on the synergies, the symbiosis that I feel like I'm hearing between the things that are presented here, the CTO Ambassadors and the customers. Like maybe a favorite example of a product or service that came from, maybe a CTO Ambassador, to Radio, to market. >> Yeah, I'm just trying to think of any one specific one. There are always bits and pieces, and things here and there. I think I should have thought of that before I came on really. I think what you're looking at here is, it's much more about an informed conversation and so it's those ideas around the fact. And also, quite often someone will have a cool idea, and they'll go to the Ambassadors, can you find me five customers that want to try this? Bang, we've got it. So if you're out there on a customer, and someone comes to you as an ambassador and says, I've got a really cool thing I'd like you to try. It might be before, we have a thing called Fling, so it might even be before it's made a fling. You probably heard from Morney how that process goes. Then engage fast, because you're probably getting that conduit direct into the core of R&D. So a lot of the features that people see and functions and products et cetera, that people see. A lot of the work you see, we're doing with the next version if you realized our management platform, a lot of that has been driven by work that's been done by Ambassadors in the field, and what we're doing there. All the stuff you'll see, I've got my jacket over there with NANO EDGE written on it. A lot of the EDGE stuff that you see, a lot of the stuff around ESXi on Arm, a lot of the stuff around that is driven specifically around a particular product range. So a really good example is, a few years ago, probably around four, myself and Ray sat down and had a meeting in VMware Barcelona, with a retail customer, and the retail customer was talking about could we get them an STDC, but small enough to fit in every store. They didn't say that at the time, but that's how we kind of got to it. So that started off a whole process in our minds, and then I went back and we, the easiest actual way for me to do it was to then get a bunch of the Ambassadors to present that as one of their innovation ideas, which became NANO EDGE. I originally called it VX Nook, because we were going to do it on intel Nooks. (laughs) Unfortunately the naming committee wouldn't allow VX Nook, so it became NANO EDGE. And that drove a whole change within the company, I think within R&D. So if you think up until that point, four years ago, most of what we were doing was, how do we run things bigger and faster? It was all like Monster VM, remember that? All those kinds of things, right? How do we get these SAP HANA 12 terabyte VMs running? And really NANO EDGE was not necessarily a product, per se but it was more of a movement driven by a particular individual, Simon Richardson, who had got promoted to Principle as a result, through the Ambassador program. That was driven through our R&D to get them to think small as well as big, you know. So next time you're building that thing, how small can you run your SX, how small can we get an SX? >> John: Small, at scale. Which is EDGE, right? >> And, you know, so get small, at scale, which was EDGE. And so suddenly everyone starts talking about EDGE, and I'm like, hang on I've been talking about this for a while now, but we just didn't really call it that. And then along comes technology like Kubernetes, which is how do you manage thousands of small things. And it's kind of, these things come together. But yes, totally, you can almost say our EDGE strategy, and a lot of the early EDGE work was done and driven out of stuff that was done from CTO Ambassadors. It's just one of the examples. >> What are some of the Kubernetes service mesh? Because one of the things we heard from Pat, and we've heard this before, but most recently at Dell Technologies World, in the last couple of weeks, was don't look down, look up. Which basically means we're automating the infrastructure. I get that, I've covered ad nauseam. But looking up the stack means you're talking about kubernetes app developers, you've got cloud native, you've got services meshes, microservices, new kinds of challenges around instrumentation. How are you guys inside Radio looking at that trend? Because there's some commercial impact, You've got Heptio, you've got Craig and the team, some of the original guys. >> Yeah, yeah. >> As well as you have a future state coming out, with state, pun intended, data, stateless. (laughs) These are new dynamics. >> Yeah, yeah. >> What's the R&D take on this? >> So there's two ways that I really talk to people about this. The first one is, I've got a concept that I talk about called application chromatography. Which sounds mental, but you remember from high school probably, chromatography was where you had that really special paper and you put the dot of liquid on and it spread it to all it's constituent parts. That's actually what's happening with our applications right now. So, we've gone through a history of re-platform. You know, mainframe, blah blah blah blah blah. So then when we got to x86, everything's on x86, along comes cloud, and as you know John, for the last 10 years it's been everything's going to cloud because we think that's the next platform. It's not, but then everything's not going to SAS, it's not all going to paths, it's not all going to Functions, it's not all going to containers. What you're seeing is those applications are coming off that one big server, and they're spreading themselves out to the right places. So I talk to customers now and they say, okay, well actually I need a management plan, and a strategy and an architecture for infrastructure as a service, containers as a service, functions as a service platform as a service and SAS, and I need a structure for that on premises and off premises. So that's truly driving R&D thinking is not how do we help our customers get from one of those to the other? They're going to all of them. >> It sounds like a green screen for media. >> It is, and then the other side of that is I've just had a conversation with some of the best, you know, what these events are like? Some of the best conversations in the water cooler, in the- >> In the hallway, yup exactly. >> I've just had a fascinating conversation with one of our guys has been talking about, oh it's really cool if we got kubernetes cause I could use it right down at the edge. I could use it to manage thousands as a tiny EDGE things. And as I'm talking to him and sort of saying, you know what he's doing, I suddenly went, hang on a second, how does a developer talk to that? He's like, well I've not really thought about that. I said, well that's your problem. We need to stop thinking about things from how can that framework help me? But how can I extend that framework? And so a lot of that- >> Moving beyond just standing up kubernetes, for what purpose? Or is that what you know, the why, what? >> So if the developers there, it shouldn't be all. I'm going to use this new framework to solve my problem or the EDGE if an R&D person would, but people like myself are there to drive them to think of the bigger picture. So ultimately at some point a developer in the future is going to want to sit there and through an API, push out software SQL server, a bit of Mongo over here, some stuff on AWS, go and use the service on our Azure at the same time pushing stuff into their own data center and maybe push a container to every store if they're a retailer and they want to do that through one place. That's what we're building. And you know, driving that, all these bits and pieces you see behind you pulling those all together into this sort of consistent operations model. As I'm sure you've heard many of- >> And it's dynamics not static, so it's not like provisioning the old way. You got to track what's being turned on and off because how do you log off? What goes turns on? What services get turned on? Turned off, turned on. >> If you don't get a theme of really, I suppose not only Radio, but our industry of the last few years, people have always said if that cliche change is constant, right? Oh, change is constant. Yet still architects build systems that are static, right? You guys that just, I'm designing an architect in this new system for the next three years. I'm like, that's stupid. What you need to do is design a system that you know is going to change before you've even finished starting it. More or less started going half way through it. So actually, as I see, I was in a fantastic session yesterday with the Architects around ESXi and VCenter, which might be boring to most, but where we architecting that for scale at a huge way. >> Well, I think that's the key thing I mean this is, first of all, we'd love this conversation because, if you can make it programmable with API and have data available, that's the architecture because it's programmable, it's not static. So you let it morph into however the application, because I think I mentioned green screen, you know chroma keys as we have those concepts here, but that's what you're saying. The apps are going to have this notion of, I need an app right now and then it goes away. Services are going to be provisioning and turning on and off. >> There is a transience, there's a transience to infrastructure, there's a transience to applications, there's a transience to components that traditional mechanisms aren't built to do. So if you look at actually, what are we building here? And what's that sort of hive mind message? It's how do we provide that platform going forward that supports transience? that allows customers to come, I mean people used to use the term agile, but it's been over years and it's not right. It's the fact that literally it's a situation of constant change. And what your deploying onto, it's constantly changing and what you're deploying is constantly changing. So we're trying to work out how do we put that piece in the middle, that is also changing but allows you some kind of constancy in what you're doing, right? So we can plug new things in the bottom, a new cloud here, a new piece of software there, a new piece of hardware there or whatever. And at the same time, there's new ways of doing architecture coming on top. That's the challenge of this, the software defined data centers, almost like an operating system for clouds or the future operating system for all apps on all clouds and all of- >> It's a systems thinking for sure, absolutely. >> Let's put your Chief Talking Officer hat on for a second as we look- >> I thought I've been doing that for the last fifteen minutes. (laughs) >> At VMWorld 2019, which is just around the corner. Any cool ANEA customers that are going to be on stage that we should be excited to hear about it? >> Actually, I was having a meeting yesterday morning about that, so I can't really say, but there's some exciting stuff we're lining up right now. We're obviously now is the time we start thinking about the keynotes, now at the time you start thinking about who's on stage. Myself and a few others are responsible for what those demos are, you know the cool demos you see on stage every year. So we literally had the meeting yesterday morning at Radio to discuss what's going to be the wow at VMWorld this year. So I'm not going to give anything away to you. I'll just say make sure you're there to watch it because it's going to be good. And we're also making sure there's a big difference between what we're doing in Moscone now and what we're going to be doing it in Barcelona when we- >> And when expand theCUBE outside of the United States certainly, we'd love to have you guys plug in and localize some of these unique challenges. Like you said, I agree bubble now the west of the world has different challenges content different. >> Definitely, I think to that end, multicloud is probably more of a thing in Europe than it was necessarily in, in North America for a longer time because those privacy laws you talked about before, people have always been looking at the fact that maybe they had to use a local cloud for some things. You know, a German cloud run by German people in a German data center and they could use another cloud like Amazon for other things. And you know, we have UK cloud who provide a specific government based cloud, et cetera. Whereas in America there was, you could use an American cloud and that was fine. So I think actually in Europe we've already been at the forefront of that multicloud thinking for a while. So it's worth watching. >> It is worth watching, I wish we had more time to, so you're just going to have to come back. >> Definitely, anytime tell me when. >> We look forward to seeing you at VMWorld. We thank you for sharing some insights with John and me on theCUBE today. >> Cool, thank you. >> For John Ferrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's exclusive coverage of VMware Radio 2019, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Female Voice: From San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering VMware RADIO 2019, brought to you by VMware. >> Welcome to theCUBE's exclusive coverage of VMware RADIO 2019, Lisa Martin with John Furrier in San Francisco, talking all sorts of innovation in this innovation long history culture at VMware, welcoming back to theCUBE, Mornay Van Der Walt, VP of R&D in the Explorer Group. Mornay, thank you for joining John and me on theCUBE today. >> Thank you for having me. >> So, I got to start with Explorer Group. Super cool name. >> Yeah. >> What is that within R&D? >> So the origins of the Explorer Group. I've had many roles at VMware, and I've been fortunate enough to do a little bit of everything. Technical marketing; product development; business development; one of the big things I did before the Explorer group was created was actually EVO:RAIL. I was the founder of that, pitched that idea. Raghu and Ray and Pat were very supportive. We took that to market, took it to (inaudible), handed that off to Dell EMC, the rest is history, right? And then was, "what's next?" So Ray and me look at some special projects, go and look at IoT, go and look at Telemetry, and did some orders for them, and then said "Alright, why don't you look at all our innovation programs." Because beyond RADIO, we actually have four other programs. And everyone, was -- RADIO gets a lot of airtime and press, but it's really the collective. It's the power of those other four programs that support RADIO that allow us to take an idea from inception to an impactful outcome. So hence the name, the Explorer Group. We're going out there, we're exploring for new ideas, new technologies, what's happening in the market. >> Talk about the R&D management style. You've actually got all these-- RADIO's one-- kind of a celebration, it's kind of the best of the best come together, with papers and submissions. Kind of a symposium meets kind of a, you know, successive end for all the top engineers. There's more, as you've mentioned. How does all of it work? Because, in this modern era of distributed teams, decentralization, decisions around business, decisions on allocating to the portfolio, what gets invested, money, spend, how do you organize? Give a quick minute to explain how R&D is structured. >> So, obviously, we have the BUs structured-- well there's PCS, Raghu and Rajeev head that up. And then we've got the OCTO organization, which Ray O'Farrell heads up. And the business, you know, it's innovating every day to get products out the door, right, and that's something that we've got to be mindful of because, I mean, that's ultimately what's allowing us to get products into the hands of our customers, solving tough problems. But then in addition to that, we want to give our engineers an avenue to go and explore, and, you know, tinker on something that's maybe related to their day job, or completely off, unrelated to their day job. The other thing that's important is, we also want to give, because we're such a global R&D, you know, our setup globally, we want to give teams the opportunity to work together, collaborate together, get that diversity of thought going, and so a lot of times, if we do a Hackathon, which we call a Borathon, we actually give bonus points if teams pull from outside of their business units. So you've got an idea, well, let's make it a diverse idea in terms of thought and perspective. If you're from the storage business unit, bring in folks from the network business unit. Bring in folks from the cloud business unit. Maybe you've partnered with some folks that are in IT. It's very, you know, sometimes engineers will go, "Ah, it's just R&D that's innovating." But in reality, there's great innovation coming out of our IT department. There's great innovation coming out of our global support organization. Our SEs that are on the front lines, sometimes are seeing the customers' pain points firsthand, and then they bring that back, and some of that makes it into the product. >> How much of R&D is applied R&D, which is kind of business unit aligned, or somewhat aligned, versus the wacky, crazy ideas: "Go solve a big, hairy problem", that's out there, that's not, kind of, related to the current product sets? >> Ah, that's tough to put an actual number on it, >> John: Well ballpark, I mean. >> But if I just say, like, if I had to just think about budgets and that, it's probably ten to fifteen percent is the wacky stuff, that's, you know, not tied to a roadmap, that's why we call it "off-road innovation", and the five programs that my Explorer Group ultimately leads is all about driving that off-road innovation. And eventually you want to find an on-ramp, >> Yeah. >> to a roadmap, you know, that's aligned to a business unit, or a new emerging, you know, technology. >> How does someone come up with an idea and say, "Hey, you know, I want to do this"? Do they submit, like, a form? Is there a proposal? Who approves it? I mean, do you get involved? How does that process work? >> So that's a good question. It really depends on the engineer, right? You take someone who's just a new college grad, straight out of, you know, college. That's why we have these five programs. Because some of these folks, they've got a good idea, but they don't really know how to frame it, pitch it. And so if you've got a good idea, and let's say, this is your first rodeo, so to speak, We have a program called TechTalks where it allows you to actually go and pitch your idea; get some feedback. And that's sometimes where you get the best feedback, because you go and, you know, present your idea, and somebody will come back and say, "Well, you know, have you met, you know, Johnny and Sue over there, in this group? They're actually working on something similar. You should go and talk to them, maybe you guys can bring your ideas together." Folks that are, you know, more seasoned, you know, longer tenure, sometimes they just come up, and-- "I'm going to pitch an idea to xLabs," and for xLabs, for example --that's an internal incubator-- there is, like, a submissions process. We want to obviously make sure, that, you know, your idea's timing in the market's correct, we've got limited funding there so we're going to make sure we're really investing on the right, you know, type of ideas. But if you don't want to go and pitch your idea and get feedback, go and do a Borathon. Turn an idea into a little prototype. And we see a lot of that happening, and some of the greatest ideas are coming from our Borathons, you know? And it's also about tracking the journey. So, we have RADIO here today, we have mentioned xLabs, TechTalks, we have another program called Flings. Some of our engineers are shipping product, and they've got an idea to augment the product. They put it out as a Fling, and our customers and the ecosystem download these, and it augments the product. And then we get great feedback. And then that makes it back into the product roadmap. So there's a lot of different ways to do it, and RADIO, the process for RADIO, there's a lot of rigor in it. It's, like, it's run as a research program. >> Lisa: It's a call for papers, right? >> Call for papers, you know, there's a strict format, it's got to be, you know, this many pages; if you go over about one line, you're sort of, disqualified, so to speak. And then once you've got those papers, like this year we had 560 papers be submitted, out of those 560, 31 made it onto mainstage, and another 61 made it as posters, as you can see in the room we're sitting in. >> I have an idea. Machine learning should get all those papers. (laughs) I mean, that's-- >> Funny you say that. We actually have, one of our engineers, Josh Simons, is actually using machine learning to go back in time and look at all the submissions. So idea harvesting is something we're paying a lot of attention to, because you submit an idea, >> Interesting. >> the market may not be right for it, or reality is, I just don't have a budget to fund it if it's an xLab. >> John: So it's like a Google search for your, kind of, the indexing all those workers. >> Internally, yeah, and sometimes it's-- there's a great idea here, you merge that with another idea from another group or another geo, and then you can actually go and fund something. >> Well, that's important because timing is critical, in these early-- most stuff can be early in just incubation, gestation period for that tech or concept, could be in play because the computer-- all the new things, right? >> Correct. And, do you actually have the time? You're an engineer working on a release, the priority is getting that release out the door, right? >> (laughs) >> So, put the idea on the back burner, come off the release, and then, you know, get a couple of colleagues together and maybe there's a Borathon being held and you go and move that idea forward that way. Or, it's time for RADIO submissions, get a couple of colleagues together and submit a RADIO paper. So we want to have different platforms for our engineers to submit ideas outside of their day job. >> And it sounds like, the different programs that you're talking about: Flings, xLab, Borathon, RADIO, what it sounds like is, there isn't necessarily a hierarchy that ideas have to go through. It really depends on the teams that have the ideas, that are collaborating, and they can put them forward to any of these programs, >> Correct, yeah. >> and one might get, say, rejected for RADIO, but might be great for a Borathon or a Fling? >> Correct. >> So they've got options there, and there's multiple committees, I imagine? Is that spearheaded out of Ray's OCTO group, >> Yep. >> that's helping to make the selections? Tell us a little bit about that process. >> Sure, so. That's a great point, right? To get an idea out the door, you don't always have to take the same pathway. And so one thing we started tracking was these innovation journeys that all take different pathways. We just published an impact report on innovation for FY19, and we've got the vSAN story in there, right? It was an idea. A group of engineers had an idea, like, in 2009, and they worked on their idea a little bit-- it first made it to RADIO in 2011. And then they came back in 2013, and, sort of, the rest is history, you know. vSAN launched in 2014. We had a press release this week for Carbon Avoidance Meter. It was an idea that actually started as a calculator many years ago. Was used, and then sort of died on the vine, so to speak? One of our SEs said, "You know, this is a good idea. I want to evolve this a little bit further." Came and pitched an xLabs idea, and we said, "Alright, we're going to fund this as an xLabs Lite. Three to six months project, limited funding, work on one objective --you're still doing your day job-- move the project forward a little bit." Then Nicola Acutt, our Sustainability VP, got involved, wanted to move the idea a little bit further along, came back for another round of funding through an xLabs Lite, and then GSS, with their Skyline platform, picked it up, and that's going to be integrated in the coming months into Skyline, and we're going to be able to give our customers a carbon, sort of, readout of their data center. And then they'll be able to, you know, map that, and get a bigger picture, because obviously, it's not just the servers that are virtualized, there's cooling in the data center plants, and all these other factors that you've got to, you know, take into account when you want to look at your carbon footprint for your facility. So, we have lots of examples of how these innovation pathways take different turns, and sometimes it's Team A starting with an idea, Team B joins in, and then there's this convergence at a particular point, and then it goes nowhere for a couple of months, and then, a business unit picks it up. >> One of the things that's come out-- Pat Gelsinger mentioned that a theme outside of the normal product stuff is how people do work. There's been some actual R&D around it, because you guys have a lot of distributed, decentralized operations in R&D because of the global nature. >> Yeah. >> How should companies and R&D be run when the reality is that developers could be anywhere? They could be at a coffee shop, they could be overseas, they could be in any geography, how do you create an environment where you have that kind of innovation? Can you just share some of the best practices that you guys have found? >> I'm not sure if there's 'best practices', per se, but to make sure that the programs are open and inclusive to everybody on the planet. So, I'll give you some stats. For example, when RADIO started in the early days, we were founded in Palo Alto. It was a very Palo Alto-centric company. And for the first few years, if you looked at the percentage of attendees, it was probably over 75% were coming from Palo Alto. We've now over the years shifted that, to where Palo Alto probably represents about 44%, 16% is the rest of North America, and then the balance is from across the globe. And so that shift has been deliberate, obviously that impacts the budget a little bit, but in our programs, like a Borathon, you can hack from anywhere. We've got a lot of folks that are remote office workers, using, you know, collaborative tools, they can be part of a team. If the Borathon's happening in China, it doesn't stop somebody in Palo Alto or in Israel or in Bulgaria, participating. And, you know, that's the beautiful nature of being global, right? If you think about how products get out of the door, sometimes you've got teams and you are literally following the sun, and you're doing handoff, you know, from Team A to B to C, but at the end of the day you're delivering one product. And so that's just part of our culture, I mean, everybody's open to that, we don't say, "Oh, we can't work with those guys because they're in that geo-location." It's pretty open. >> This is also, really, an essential driver, and I think I saw last year's RADIO, there were participants from 25+ countries. But this is an essential-- not only is VMware a global company, but many of your customers are as well, and they have very similar operating models. So that thought diversity, to be able to build that into the R&D process is critical. >> Absolutely. And also, think about, you know, when you're going to Europe. Smaller borders, countries, you deploy technology differently. And so, you want to have that diversity in thought as well, because you don't just want to be thinking, "Alright, we're going to deploy a disaster recovery product in North America where they can fail over from, you know, East Coast to West Coast. You go to Europe, and typically you're failing over from, you know, site A to site B, and they're literally three or four miles apart. And so, just having that perspective as well, is very important. And we see that, you know, when we release certain products, you'll get, you know, better uptick in a certain geo, and then, "Why is it stalling over here?" well it's, sometimes it's cultural, right? How do you deploy that technology? Just because it works in the US, doesn't mean it's going to work in Europe or in APJ. >> How was your team involved in the commercialization? You mentioned vSAN and the history of that, but I'm just wondering, looking at it from an investment standpoint of deciding which projects to invest in, and then there's also the-- if they're ready to go to market, the balance of "How much do we need to invest in sales and marketing to be able to get this great idea-- because if we can't market it and sell it, you know, then there's obviously no point." So what's that balance like, within your organization, about, "how do we commercialize this effectively, at scale"? >> So that is ultimately not the responsibility of my group. We'll incubate ideas, like, for example, through an xLabs project. And, you know, sometimes we'll get to a point and we'll work, collaborate with a business unit, and we'll say, "Alright, we feel this project's probably a 24 months project", if it's an xLabs Full. So these folks are truly giving up their day job. But at the end of the day, you want to have an exit and when we say exit, what does that exit mean? Is that an exit into a business unit? Are you exiting the xLabs project because we're now out of funding? You know, think about a VC, I'm going to fund you to, you know, to a particular point; if there is no market traction, >> Right. >> we may, you know, sunset the project. And, you know, so our goal is to get these ideas, select which ones we want to invest in, and then find a sort of off-ramp into a business unit. And sometimes there'll be an off-ramp into a business unit, and the project goes on for a couple of months, and then we make a decision, right? And it's not a personal decision, it's like, "Well we funded that as an xLabs; we're now going to shut it down because, you know, we're going to go and make an acquisition in this space. And with the talent that's going to come onboard, the talent that was working on this xLab project, we can push the agenda forward." >> John: You have a lot of action going on so you move people around. >> Exactly. >> Kind of like the cloud, elastic resource, yeah? (laughs) >> So, then, some of these things, because xLabs is only a two-year-old, you know, we haven't had things exit yet that are, you know, running within a business unit that we're seeing this material impact. You know, from a revenue point of view. So that's why tracking the journeys is very important. And, you know, stay tuned, maybe in about three or four years we'll have this, similar, you know, interview, and I'll be able to say, "Yeah, you know, that started as an xLab, and now it's three years into the market, and look at the run rate. >> So there's 31-- last question for you-- there's 31 projects that were presented on mainstage. Are there any that you could kind of see, early on, "ooh", you know, those top five? Anything that really kind of sticks out-- you don't have to explain it in detail, but I'm just curious, can you see some of that opportunity in advance? >> Absolutely. There's been some great papers up on mainstage. And covering, you know, things on the networking side, there's a lot of innovation going in on the storage side. If you think about data, right, the explosion of data because of edge computing, how are you going to manage that data? How are you going to take, you know, make informed decisions on that data? How can you manipulate that data? What are you going to have to do from a dedupe point of view, or a replication point of view, because you want to get that to many locations, quickly? So, I saw some really good papers on data orchestration, manipulation, get it out to many places, it can take an informed decision. I saw great-- there was a great paper on, you know, you want to go and put something in AWS. There's a bull that you get at the end of the month, right? Sometimes those bulls can be a little bit frightening, right? You know, what can you do to make sure that you manage those bulls correctly? And sometimes, the innovation has got nothing to do with the product per se, but it has to do with how we're going to develop. So we have some innovation on the floor here where an engineer has looked at a different way of, basically, creating an application. And so, there's a ton of these ideas, so after RADIO, it doesn't stop there. Now the idea harvesting starts, right? So yes, there were 31 papers that made it onto mainstage, 61 that are posters here. During that review process, and you asked that question earlier and I apologize, I didn't answer it-- you know, when we look at the papers, there's a team of over 100 folks from across the globe that are reviewing these papers. During that review process, they'll flag things like "This is not going to make it onto mainstage, but the idea here is very novel; we should send this off to our IP team," you know. So this year at RADIO, there were 250 papers that were flagged for further followup with our IP team, so, do we go and then file an IDF, Invention Disclosure Form, do those then become patents, you know? So if we look at the data last year, it was 210. Out of those 210, 74 patents were filed. So there's a lot of work that now will happen post-RADIO. Some of these papers come in, they don't make it onto mainstage; they might become a poster. But at the same time they're getting flagged for a business unit. So from last year, there were 39 ideas that were submitted that are now being mapped to roadmap across the BUs. Some of these papers are great for academic research programs, so David Tennenhouse's research group will take these papers and then, you know, evolve them a little bit more, and then go and present them at academic conferences around the world. So there's a lot of, like, the "what's next?" aspect of RADIO has become a really big deal for us. >> The potential is massive. Well, Mornay, thank you so much for joining John and me, >> Thank you. >> and I've got to follow xLabs, there's just a lot of >> (laughs) >> really, really, innovative things that are so collaborative, coming forward. We thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin; you're watching theCUBE, exclusive coverage of VMware RADIO 2019, from San Francisco. Thanks for watching.

>> (upbeat music) From San Francisco it's the CUBE covering VMware radio 2019, brought to you by VM ware. >> Welcome to the cube Lisa Martin with John Furrier in our exclusive coverage of VM ware Radio 2019 in San Francisco. John and I are pleased to welcome back to the cube Rajiv Ramaswami, COO of products and cloud services Rajiv, Welcome back >> Rajiv Ramaswami: Oh thank you glad to be here as always >> Lisa Martin: 15th annual radio a lot of research a lot of innovation. Give our viewers an idea of some of the historical products and services that have come out of the radio and the innovation programs at VMware has been doing for a long time >> Rajiv Ramaswami: Yeah I mean, I'm excited about Radio right I mean many of our key innovations came out of Radio. Very early back in the days the fundamental concepts of vSphere replication and disaster recovery came out of Radio papers, a long time ago. Some of the innovations within vSAN were showcased at the radio many many years ago. So across the board, I would say many of the products you know are key portions of the products were deployed I mean in the form of Radio papers over the years and if you look at this year for example you know we can see how things have changed with the times as VMware is evolved, so does Radio along the way. So this year, I was struck by the number of papers on machine learning and AI right, it's forward-looking of course everything we do here and it's just now ML is now across many of our products and that's being you know seen in Radio and of course, what we see at Radio is always more forward-looking than what's actually in the products. So that's an area I see a lot of work and another area I see a lot of work on is Kubernetes and the cloud native and then of course the traditional areas of how to optimize storage, networking and even when it comes to networking and so forth, papers on cloud networking and how you know we can optimize for networking in the cloud So in general, I mean the trend here is a reflection of what we are probably likely to do in the next several years >> John Furrier: One of your jobs as Chief Operating Officer I see, to operate them on the product side of the business generate that kind of enablement for the sales team and ultimately customers right. >> Rajiv Ramaswami: Yes >> John Furrier: So you've got to kind of mind the farm here >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yeah >> John Furrier: kind of cultivate and see what's organically growing out of VMware from the top engineering and stuff top papers. what's the process? how do you go attack the all the action because there's a lot of forward-looking stuff there's a lot of pie in the sky is a lot of cool different stuff that looks weird >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yes >> John Furrier: but sometimes that weird stuff looks is actually going to be the future so you got to have a broad perspective, how do you act this? >> Rajiv Ramaswami: Yeah, in fact I would say one of our biggest jobs is portfolio management. We have to look at balance our investments across this range that you talked about right so at any point in time we will have a set of technologies and products that we incubating these are relatively new sometimes new areas for us sometimes extensions to existing areas that we are incubating and these are of course businesses that don't drive much revenue right now but over times yes hopefully well right and then there are businesses, I'll give you examples of each of these now there are businesses that are in growth mode where we've already established a good product market fit we know that we can scale this business and its a different set of investments and in that growth category and then there are relatively mature businesses that we know we need to run efficiently in fact they need to generate cash that we can go back and invest into these other right and then there are things that we want to get out of and diverse so we look at our R&D portfolio along those and at any point in time there's stuff in everyone of these buckets to give you some examples of what's in each of these today obviously we have a big focus in cloud native most of that is incubation at that point right not substantial revenue, yet a big you know we've acquired Heptio for example last year to bolster our own internal efforts so a lot of work a lot of effort being put into that with the idea of building a future business in a significant way some of our more recent growth business were are now very much in the scale category you look at VSAN, you look in a EXSi, you look at VeloCloud as part of the overall networking portfolio these are all in the scale category right they have substantial revenues are growing very nicely we're investing some of our other bigger businesses like vSphere which is our classic you know foundation for everything we do Yes, I would say in the mature, you know category and then over by an large we've reduced investments and some small businesses, I mean if we were to look at historically vCloud Air that the business we got out of right so these we do along the way otherwise >> John Furrier: a good call, or you quit call >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yeah so in fact one of Raghu's and my biggest jobs really is to figure out how much we put in each of the these buckets, make sure you're placing enough in the future of best category while also making sure your delivering on the numbers for the day >> John Furrier: I love that's exactly what I was going at this about the future bets >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yeah >> John Furrier: what is on the business side one of the I asked Pat Gels, I'll ask you the same thing but different context, you know this is an engineering celebration as well as kind of competition internally I guess kind of proud to be people are proud to be here kind of an elite status but engineers want to work for a company and solving hard problems >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yes >> John Furrier: also retention and attraction thing. what are some of the hard problems that you're trying to deal with on business side? you're operating some of the core products and it sounds easy to say abstraction layer make things look easy, but these are hard problems what are the hard problems that you're solving that need to come out of this world? >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yeah and some of these are better not this product they cut across every aspect of the company so far example we as a company are trying to move towards more of a cloud oriented business model right so that's why are group is called products and cloud services and those are combined in the sense that everything that we build up the product over time most of its get software also as a service and the underlying code base and the technologies are all the same great example for example is our VMware cloud offerings right they are all built on VMware cloud foundation which is offered as a software package for our customers who want to build private clouds its also available as a service from us as well as familiar for our partners. Now, for us the notion of transforming our company to be able to do both right just products from moving products to also to being delivering cloud services has a profound impact across every function R&D for sure, go to market in terms of how you align the Salesforce to sell that all our systems that are necessary to transact that business so that's a pretty big transformation that we are going through right now. >> John Furrier: That's a lot of software that needs to be code and automation is not easy >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yeah >> John Furrier: that's why machine learning problem is hot here >> Rajiv Ramaswami: absolutely yes >> Lisa Martin: What is that balance when you are looking at innovations that come out of not just radio but the other innovation programs that VMware has about managing the balance between the R&D investment and the investment that's going to be needed on the sales and marketing side to get the product or service the solution out on the market to start really dialing up this as a big revenue contributor. How do you look at that as you talk about that portfolio a minute ago and when something becomes like say it comes out of radio and it's well, this is a really good idea, but how are you looking at balancing the R&D investment versus what you know you're going to have to do to get it to market? >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yeah and by the way that's a great point there because, you know too often engineers think about hey I've the coolest product let me go build it they don't think about how it needs to be sold and the how it needs to be sold is equally important the front more important than how you build it right. So in our world so when we do our planning on an annual basis for example we look at a holistic plan that covers the entire gamut right which means R&D, sales and marketing right and when within sales and marketing, investment across what our core sales team needs to do what our specialist sales teams you know For example some of these newer products will require specialist to sell they might be targeting different buyers within the customer base right, so we have to align our R&D and go to market investments together to create a full plan for the year and we do that for pretty much every product in our portfolio >> John Furrier: what I going to ask, I want to ask you a business question I know R&D is going to be key you guys did a great job, so Congratulations but one of the things that we're seeing in the market is new shifts in the landscape of either tech enablement or trends like kubernetes or 5G gives companies an opportunity to reset their architecture >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yes >> John Furrier: and you now see with virtualization some of the things that you guys are doing we're seeing couple pivot points for customers now one cloud native, kubernetes >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yes >> John Furrier: software - defined, your on-premise cloud operations, not C private cloud [Rajiv Ramaswami] yeah >> John Furrier: cloud and then like 5G >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yes >> John Furrier: a little bit of you know networking these are major trends >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yes >> John Furrier: how should companies start thinking? okay I have an opportunity as a catalyst to shift what what's your take on that trend advice to those customers because they might be able to do wholesale changes or migration >> Rajiv Ramaswami: Yeah, look from a customer perspective right, every one of them is going through this transformational journey and depending on you know where they are right, so if you take Telco's for example that's where the 5G applies primarily, I mean they have they go through this big capital cycles of investment that are geared towards massive technology generation size so last generation was 4G LTE and now the next thing is 5G and that is big new capital cycle and there's an opportunity at that time for them to fundamentally re-architect how they deployed their infrastructure and that's what they are doing with network function virtualization is 5G and so if 5G and we kind of go hand-in-hand together and its an opportunity too for them to go deploy a new infrastructure that is much more virtualized much more using standard hardware running everything in virtualized applications what's right the network function than they could before >> John Furrier: so the edge now is more dynamic than it was years ago so we look at 4G. What we have, what year that was, but I mean that even with healthy there's many many years ago the edge was not built out now you have a programmable intelligent, the edge market >> Rajiv Ramaswami: exactly >> John Furrier: how is 5G going to impact the Telco's? because this might be the right time for them to actually have a real business model. >> Rajiv Ramaswami: Yeah, well look I think 5G's offers them to try out many different models for example given that many the 5G radios are much more shorter range right, so your going to deploy more smaller cell sizes that means for example there's a new business model possible where you deploy radio multiple operators are sharing that radio, right where as traditionally today you know your base station so AT&T has their own, Verizon has their own tomorrow you could be okay you could have a bunch of >> John Furrier: basing radio service provider >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yeah in the buildings right here that and that could be shared by all the providers so its a completely different business model so those are the kind of things that 5G enables >> Lisa Martin: are there any projects that are being featured here talked about here at radio 2019 along the spirit of and NFP,5G >> Rajiv Ramaswami: Oh yeah there's a bunch of projects I mean on the floor right, you can go in fact even in the posters that you're sitting around here you'll see a lot of projects in 5G we have some nascent efforts on this what we call networks slicing for example >> Lisa Martin: and what is that? >> Rajiv Ramaswami: so the ability are going to share the network that you deploy a single network infrastructure and you are able to slice that into chunks and have different people use those chunks >> John Furrier: and I think that points out a trend that we've been reporting least on the queue and ways people say don't move data around move compute to the edge or software-based virtualization. You're putting basically virtualization on the radio's >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yes exact software exact edge yeah, >> John Furrier: so when you look at the marketplace when you say okay VMware, it's got a transfer over one of the things that's come up a lot we've heard on the cube is a VMware's great, they don't know networking though now of course if NSX is didn't win now we know where that comes from multiple competitors. But talk about the networking aspect of what you're doing? because, the investment in this era that's the first real SDN company there's been some SDN around before but you guys not only do SDM you got networking, you got compute, security, talk about networking in the innovations there >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yeah let me talk about the division for networking and then also how its part of all the solutions right not necessarily just a stand alone sale so networking fundamentally you know it used to be about connect, for example it used to be about connecting in the campus, your laptops and desktops into the network right it was called workgroups and then campus networking or your land campus LAN then it became Wi-Fi came in there right and the in data center it was about connecting servers to storage and servers to other servers right all about this box mentality in the branch it was about putting in a branch router and providing a network connection through that right, but if you look at fundamentally what networking is evolved to now it's about connecting, what connecting users applications and data and these could be anywhere, right. you use this could be anywhere you could be sitting in a Starbucks shop accessing your applications that are sitting in a cloud someplace not even running through your enterprise network so the notion of a classic network has changed completely. so the network now is much more, it's really a virtual network because, you don't you know its not physical plumbing anymore that matter yes you need the physical plumbing the physical plumbing is going to be provided by multiple people that you as an enterprise do not even necessarily control. You might control your campus LAN you might control your data center, but you don't control the could right, you don't control running over a service partner networked into the edge of the branch and so fundamentally now the new networking layer has to be a layer of software that really delivers and connects and secures these applications users and data and that's really the concept of SDN that's evolved into what we call the virtual cloud Network and that fundamentally is our focus and for us we're not really burdened by the fact that we have an underlying physical network business that we have to go protect and we have to go build. >> John Furrier: your software company >> Rajiv Ramaswami: we're software company >> John Furrier: so you know like Cisco you (mumbles) switches and routers that's if you don't have one on the top of them >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yeah it doesn't matter what do you have underneath right everything runs on top and so that's the fundamental philosophy now when you look at how this is now starting to get deployed of course you know and you're seeing, we started out with the data center and we started you know focusing on virtual machines connecting virtual machines now we now extend that to connecting containers. Right, you can you need to network containers right applications running in containers they need to be networked you need to network base metal machines you still have some of those leftovers right, so you've got a network do's and then you have to network applications running well >> John Furrier: its not a software question, I want to ask this is the trend who was seeing hyper convergence is proven >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yeah >> John Furrier: glass multiple things into one thing and reduces one footprint and some easier to manage the 5G and these shifts and technologies cause some give people that operating reset they're our architecture a lot of people say okay Cisco's got gear, I got UCS and other thing >> Rajiv Ramaswami: sure >> John Furrier: so how it collapse that in well? they want me to not do that you guys are kind of a different approach or do you then Cisco? >> Rajiv Ramaswami: so this is exactly what we do right so now you take the networking that we've got with virtual floor networking and you actually integrate that as part of a solution with our VML foundation okay and now what, are you have a full solution that can be deployed on any hardware right, can be Cisco UCS hardware, can be del hardware or it can be HP hardware so you essentially have a software foundation that includes compute storage, networking automation all put together in a solution that you can deploy on Prem and you can deploy in the cloud >> John Furrier: that's like super hyper convergence >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yes and in fact hyper-converged now it's not just about storage and compute anymore right that's how it started out. Its our compute storage networking all put together available not just on Prem, in a hardware appliance software that can be run on anything and extended it into the cloud that's really the new hyper-converged >> John Furrier: and that's new chanak's is plan actually, they are moving from a hardware, trying to do software. >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yeah we've always been there right. We started out with software and we've expanded that to the hybrid cloud right. Think about where we're at now we've got you know we mark Loudon AWS, we've got our four thousand plus VM cloud provider partners and increasingly more and more users >> John Furrier: so, you are saying copied you guys basically >> Rajiv Ramaswami: absolutely >> John Furrier: okay >> Lisa Martin: imitation is the highest form of flattery (laughing) >> Lisa Martin: question for you in terms of customers. You know we we're I'm sure going to hear some phenomenal successful customers at vmworld, which is just around the corner, how our customer is going to benefit from the innovation? and this is we talked about the competition, competitive nature of radio, but also the fact that one of these guys and gals are doing this in their spare time so this is really deep-rooted passionate projects we expect customers in any industry to be able to benefit from this and say the next nine to twelve months? >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yeah look I mean at the end of the day you know these are complex systems and software that we have provide and deploy all right and a lot of innovations as under the covers and we have to translate that into value propositions that resonate with the customer that they can go deploy so what's the customer trying to do right? so think about it from a customer lens in so the customer is trying to say, well okay I'm on this journey I've got for example figure out how to have a completely you know dynamic infrastructure where I can run my applications and those could be if my existing applications modern applications that I'm building and they need to be able to run flexibly anywhere I want to be able to run them on Prem I want to be able to run them in the cloud give me an infrastructure that can solve that problem and that's really what we do with our hybrid cloud solution so the and so we have solved that problem for the customer then the customer's next problem is going to be around saying that well I want that flexibility I want to use AWS, I want to use Azure, I want to use Google and every one of these has a silo by itself I've got to retrain all my people to come manage every one of these separately VMware can you help us with that and we provided consistent operations and management's control planes that work across everyone of these clubs but allowing them to solve that problem easily and networking and security we already talked about right there's notion of being able to connect the absence users and data so converting all these innovations into you know solutions that customers can use is really what we do well >> John Furrier: you know we like to put pressure on you guys and ask the tough questions we've got to say you guys have done a great job, over the past couple of years on the product tech site a lot, a lot of clarity on vCloud air get that out of the way amazon relationship now that you got vCloud foundation, things are coming together the numbers are up >> Rajiv Ramaswami: yes >> John Furrier: Boss happy everyone's happy. What's next? What's the big next journey chapter and wave you ridin? >> Rajiv Ramaswami: look I think we're still early days when it comes to the two big transformational seems to be around right. cloud in containers I think we've got all of our solutions in the market now. We have to scale and build them past talked about this mission of how to you know make these cloud delivered service bigger chunk of our portfolio going forward and then containers in kubernetes I think is a big big cloud native with a big new area for us a lot more to go when it comes to networking in times transforming networking insecurity. I do expect us to be doing more and more there in that front and on the inducer I thin on there which we didn't cover much about here there's a fundamentally massive opportunity for us with modern management on Windows right with our partnership with Dell and taking really work space one into every windows machine that's out there and you also saw that partnership announcement with Microsoft last week at deltek world a couple of weeks ago so all of that I think you know There is a lot for us to execute >> John Furrier: I just want an alienware monitor the curve monitors are so good. I want one of those. >> Rajiv Ramaswami: Oh yeah those are beautiful monitors, elite. >> Lisa Martin: Well an impressive trajectory that you have no doubt the queue will be following closely, Rajiv thank you so much for joining me on the cube VMware radio 2019 we appreciate your time >> Rajiv Ramaswami: oh thank you Lisa, thank you John glad to be here again thank you >> Lisa Martin: our pleasure for John Fourier, I'm Lisa Martin coming to you from San Francisco at VMware radio 2019. Thanks for watching (high intensity music)

>> Host: From San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering VMware Radio 2019! Brought to you by VMware. >> Welcome to theCUBE, Lisa Martin in San Francisco, at VMware Radio 2019. This is a really cool internal R&D innovation off-site with about 1800 engineers across many business units at VMware, and we're pleased to welcome back to theCUBE the VP of the sustainability strategy at VMware, Nicola Acutt. Nicola, it's great to have you back on theCUBE! >> Thank you, Lisa, it's wonderful to be here and welcome back to Radio! >> This is only the second year that press has been allowed so this is an exclusive for theCUBE, we appreciate being here. So, sustainability. It's a word that is talked about so globally in so many industries, but it has different meanings. When I think of sustainability, the first thing that comes to my mind is energy, but it's more than that. What is sustainability to VMware? >> Great, thank you Lisa. And you're right, sustainability means a lot of things to different people. In its holistic sense, we think of sustainability as the capacity to endure, the ability to endure over time, and it has environmental dimensions, it has social dimensions and of course it has economic dimensions. The way we think about sustainability at VMware is through the lens of innovation, because we really do believe that solving many of the sustainability challenges in the world today is about innovation, and so we're really excited to be able to do that work and to pursue that mission in the office of the CTO. >> So talk a little bit more about that, with the sustainability strategy being within the office of the CTO. What sort of superpowers does that give VMware to amplify what it's doing and really also, in the eyes of your customers and partners, leverage sustainability as a differentiator? >> Yeah, I love that you used the word superpowers. I think of it exactly that. For me, it's about how do we connect our tech superpowers with this vision and foresight around solving really challenging problems? So for us, how we approach that problem, is really in three dimensions. So we think about sustainability and innovation around our operation, so that's walking the talk, first and foremost, right, getting things right internally, and from an innovation perspective, that's not just about innovation in terms of energy management, you used the energy example, right, but it's also about processes. How do we think about our engineering processes, to make sure that our engineering productivity is as efficient as possible. Yesterday our chief research officer David Tennenhouse made a comment to our 18,000 engineers that it's two sides of the same coin when we're talking about innovation for good, we also have to talk about good engineering so it's both, right? So that's one. Innovation in our operations. The second lens that we think about is innovation in terms of what we do, our products and how our products serve our customers and help them achieve their sustainability goals. Also at Radio we were really pleased this year to announce a new product initiative called CAM, the Carbon Awareness Meter, and this is a product feature in Skyline which will be available to our customers later on this year, which will allow them, through the Skyline platform, to derive almost real-time carbon scores and provide them with more information, more transparency into what's happening in their infrastructure, and then serve up information that can make choices around whether it's virtual machine density or opportunities to optimize their hardware, and then also even provide them information about the grid that their data center is operating on, and that then, we hope, will empower them, our huge customer base, to think about what they can do possibly as a result. >> Oh absolutely, I can't imagine what having that insight into their own grid will allow them to do in terms of resource optimization, to be able to use resources better, to identify new products and services. I'm curious about CAM, though, being announced at Radio 2019. Was this a product, or an idea that spun out of a past Radio event, since this is the 15th annual? >> I'm so glad you asked that question. Exactly why I think this is such an exciting announcement, not only is it a really cool product feature, but it tells the story of innovation at VMware and the path that an idea can track through from an idea in someone's head to a product in our customer's system. So that journey at VMware started with this idea going back, gosh, more than three years. In fact it was round about the time that we introduced sustainability to the office of the CTO and this was a challenge we put out to engineers around how can we innovate around sustainability? It first was discussed as a tech talk and then the idea came to Radio, here, as one of these poster papers. It was then also a birds of a feather, a talk, a breakout talk. Later on, the idea then gained more momentum, it was funded as part of X-Labs which is one of our innovation programs. In fact it was so popular it got funded a second time and developed, and now it has graduated from the office of the CTO and the innovation programs into the BU. So that's a great example of this journey that our innovators, our engineers, can take with an idea, from concept to impact. >> One of the things Ray O'Farrell mentioned to John Furrier and me this morning was that this year's Radio, he said, it's kind of surprising that there's a lot of projects around proposals around collaboration. So talk about how CAM was developed, I mean, the spirit of different BUs collaborating, different minds, different engineering minds coming together with ideas that really over time and through not just Radio but the other innovation programs, you mentioned X-Labs, that this idea became something that is now enabling your customers to make big decisions and save a considerable amount of resources. How does collaboration between BUs really get VMware's innovation culture dialed way up? >> That's actually really important, this concept of collaboration. The way I think about it is connecting dots, and a key role that the office of the CTO plays is to do just that, to create the spaces like this event, which you increase the probability that people are going to have a conversation or people are thinking about something and you give them a platform to share that idea and that's where the spark comes from. You hear it in the conversations, you hear it in the energy, but that is critical. I don't think you can create a culture of innovation without creating a culture of collaboration. >> Absolutely, they're hand-in-hand. So you talked about CAM. What are some of the technological changes, improvements that VMware has made to its technologies to become, to really deliver on your sustainability goals? >> Yeah, I think it goes back to our roots, right? The very beginning of VMware, and the legacy of our core product and our core innovation has been a massive contribution to the computing field of course, and to industry and to the world, but it's also been a great, what I call one of the greatest positive externalities in terms of saving energy and resources. So that was a great start to build on, and the announcement of the CAM project today was another step in that journey to now be really intentional about connecting sustainability with innovation, just like we do with quality and with security, and really thinking about this as part of what we do. So what that journey looks like is continuing to invest in, I talked about operational innovation, I talked about our product, the third area of our strategy is really around future bets and the products that are currently off road map but on our radar. You've probably heard, a great example of that is our work on blockchain, and so we're being intentional about developing that software to be energy efficient, number one. You'll hear more about that, I hope, later in the year. We have an intern coming in the summer to help the team work on the sustainability dimensions of our blockchain approach. We just did a demo actually at Radio this week, there was a live demo on stage with our blockchain team testing out a use case in sustainability and sustainable supply to our supply chain custody, with the example of ocean plastics and making sure that we were able to really track that supply chain and blockchain was a really powerful application for a solution like that. So that's just an example of where we're thinking about applying this lens of sustainability and innovation to our future products, as well as to some of the big challenges we face as a global society. >> Right, globally and environmentally, we look at within the data center, outside the data center from the core to the edge. Where does code sustainability fit in, and how does that facilitate reducing carbon footprint at VMware, enabling that for your customers, how does that factor into becoming more efficient and more aware globally and societally as well? >> Right, well it starts with what you do, right? For us, writing code is the core of all of the applications, everything, all of the powerful things that we can do starts with the integrity of the code, and so at Radio we have one of our sessions with principal engineers and the sustainability team is working on a project to define what does that mean for us? So, it's about efficiency, it's about really thinking about how do we optimize? How do we design and pay attention to the very core of what we do? From the get-go, as a priority. >> Last question, from the customer's perspective, what is one of the many VMware customer stories that comes to mind when you think about VMware as an enabler, as a catalyst for helping an organization really dramatically reduce carbon footprint, leverage your technology for their sustainability? >> Such a great question, and y'know something interesting, I'll tell you a story. We recently looked at some of the companies that are making very serious commitments to sustainability, putting their money where their mouth is and, for example, organizations that are committing to being carbon neutral, to being RE100 which is renewable energy 100 powering their organizations through clean power, as well as committing to science-based targets around their operations, and when we looked at the data it was absolutely fascinating to see that many of VMware's best and biggest customers are in that category of leaders and so for us that represents a billion dollars of revenue so this is important, not just to us but to our customers, and so this is a journey. We're working within the office of the CTO with our field teams to really help connect the dots more intentionally and to drive additional value for our customers through their use of our products and their relationship with VMware as a solution provider. >> And it just shows and speaks to the great synergies that VMware has developed over its history with its customers. Nicola, thank you so much for joining me at Radio 2019, and sharing with our audience the massive impact, both internally and externally, that VMware's sustainability strategy is having on the world. Thank you! >> Thank you, Lisa, absolute pleasure. >> Likewise! I'm Lisa Martin, with John Furrier joining me at VMware Radio 2019 in San Francisco. Thanks for watching. (gentle music)

>> from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering the M Wear Radio twenty nineteen brought to you by the M where >> welcome to Special Cube conversation here in San Francisco for PM wears radio event there. Top engineers air here for once a year Get together and show in the best stuff road map to get to great guests. Here we got Mike Petrillo is the senior director of Blockchain of'em were here where their journey is, where they come from and gone to today where they are up to and for Team A Gluckman Engineering leader Blockchain engine both with GM Where great to see you guys. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate spending the time My favorite topic block Jane our favorite topic to thanks for joining me. So, Mike, let's start with you. Take a street where you guys are now Because we talked about a year ago. Just getting the putting the team together. You were here last year radio kind of getting some core mo mentum. Where have you guys come from? And where are you now? Yeah, >> it's been quite a journey. You know, over the past five years, we've been doing a lot of research that research culminated in an open source project called Project Concorde that we announced last year. Then we wrapped some commercial offerings around it around really the operational side. How do you operate a blockchain at scale in an enterprise setting we introduced? That is Veum wear Blockchain. It's a very descriptive on the naming, and it really focuses on three core things. Enterprise grade, decentralized trust, not distributed trust but really decentralized trust. So being able to deploy it across multiple different cloud environments as well as on prim, it concentrates on robust Day two operations. How do you operate it at scale in an enterprise setting? How do you deal with stuff like GDP are the right to be forgotten? You know, data sovereignty issues, things like that, which is much different than other block Janes. And then the third thing is really being developer friendly. Last year we were fully Ethereum compatible. We had the Ethereum language sitting on top of our block chain. Since then, we've added support for Djamel from digital asset. So another language and we're adding more and more languages so the developers can develop in the framework that they're used to on the best scaleable. You know, Enterprise Supporter >> brings him Dev Ops Mojo Concepts to blockchain. Absolutely, absolutely somewhat. The demo you guys did you get on stage? I want to get too, because it's a really use case. So again, rnd concept jewel years of research started putting together making some progress on developer. So the solutions that you guys presented, we really take us through that. >> So the ocean plastics demo that we talked about a radio basically solves this problem or, you know, just the plastics polluted, polluting our oceans today. So if you look at the numbers are staggering and the BP that you actually a consume, you know, in fish it's pretty scary. The other thing is, you know, it's been predicted that we'll have mohr plastic in our oceans than fish by twenty fifty. And one of the things Dell is trying to do is clean up the environment, and they're building these reusable trays or packaging material for their Dell laptops. And so this use case was providing them that functionality. And if you look at del they you know, they have a massive supply chain. They've got hundreds and thousands of renders that you know, they use despite systems that don't actually talk to each other, they've got complicated work flows. There's also a lot off corruption in their supply chain. And one of the things that can really solve a lot of those problems is bmr blockchain. And they have an instance running on our service, which runs on VM CNW s and I walked through the devil of just going through an aggregator to getting to a manufacturer and then assembling these laptops with the trays and shipping them off to >> think this was something we covered. A del technology world. I just wanna point out for the folks watching Dell's taking recycled material from the ocean, using it as materials into their laptops as a part of sustainability. Great business. You know, Malcolm for del the supply chain pieces. Interesting. So you guys are using blockchain and track the acquisition of the plastic out of the ocean? >> Yes. To manufacturing and to end >> Yes. In tow? Yes. >> Using of'em were blocking. >> Yes. So who coded >> this up? It was actually >> del Del developers coded it up. So they quoted up. They took two weeks to code it. We had absolutely no support issues that came away, which really talks about these. A fuse of our platform. And, you know, just the applications that running. >> How does someone get involved real quick at the plug for they have someone joins the bm where? Blockchain initiative? Yes, Via more block >> change. That's ah, manage service offering from us. So it's a license, you know, product. If they're interested, they can go to the inn where dot com slash blockchain or emails? The blockchain dash info beyond where dotcom get it signed up on the beta. We have an active beta. We have lots of enterprise customers all around the planet using it today. You know, at scale >> is a free servicers are licensed paid license. >> There will >> be a paid license for it. You know, we're invader right now, so it is free, right? >> I get it. But we're gonna get you in the snow. So it is. It is a licence service. Yeah, It's Amanda's >> service offering on. That's you know, the beauty of it is that you don't have to worry about updating it, you know, keeping the nose live anything like that. We don't see the transactional data. We don't manage the nodes or anything like that. But we deploy and keep him updated. Keeping refresh. >> You know, one of the benefits Ray Farrell's on. Just how about the ape revolution? How I change the world with the Internet and the web that blockchain has that same kind of inflection point impact you mentioned GDP are that implies, Reed. You know, changing the the values on the block chain will dwell in the Ganges is immutable. How do you handle that? Because if it's already immutable on encrypted, how does Tootie pr work? >> Yeah, just doesn't take >> care of you. Why wait? If it's encrypted, no one can see it. >> Yeah, well, you know, block chains, not about encrypting the data, right? There are some block change that do encrypted data. People get confused because they associated the cryptography with it, which links the blocks together. But the data in there is still visible. Right? We're working on privacy solutions to make privacy per transaction. We're working on GDP our issues right now, because that is an issue. When you get into a regulated environment, which there isn't really a non regulated environment these days. You have to worry about these things. You know, Blockchain gives you a mutability and that gives you to trust. But really, Blockchain is about trust. It's about this decentralized trust. And when you think about it in that context, you say, Well, if I trust that I want to be able to delete that data and we reach consensus on it and we still maintain the order, right, the proper order of the bits, which is really what Blockchain is doing, is giving you trust on that order. Bits and I agree, is a consensus to delete one of those pieces out of the order bit, and we can still maintain trust of the order bits. And that's fine. Now I can't get into details on this engineering secret sauce. >> I. So one of the things I want to ask >> you guys just engineers, because I think this is one of the things that I see is that Blockchain is attractive. There's a lot of unknowns that coming down the pike, but we do know one thing. It's a distributed, decentralized kind of concept that people like it. I see a new generation of attracted the blockchain new generation of entrepreneurs, a new generation of young people, engineers who see use cases that others from old school industry might not. So you start to see. I won't say it's the hipster or cutting edge. It's just that it's attracting this kind of new generation developer for engineer. >> Why do you >> think that's the case? Why, and and is that right assumption to look at? Because, you know, when asked his blockchain, certainly state of the art. Yeah, it's not as fast as a database of I wanted to do something. Technically, that's like saying the Internet dial up was bad. But what happened after? So you know, a lot of people making these arguments, But I see it definitely resonating with young people. Yes, look at Facebook who tried looking blockchain and moving their entire a broken system. Teo blocked, Jammed. Try to fix that so you can feel these indicators. What's your thoughts? >> I think >> part of it. And I definitely saw this, you know, last Friday and Saturday, I was eighty three up in New York City, right, and it was very much that hipster crowd, and I was really attached to the crypto currency phase. Cryptocurrency allowed individuals to make investments. You know, the kind of millennials to make investments. They didn't have to go to a e trade or they didn't have to go to some broker. It wasn't caught up in anything. They could, you know, make these bets. And now they can build applications that are directly attached to that currency. They can make up their own currency. They can make up their own value system. You know, you've done some of that with a cube, right? We've launched an application that provides value around the content and token eyes. Is that value? And now it can transfer that value So it opens up the transfer of that value, the trust of that value. And I think, you know, we're in a generation of trust and transparency. That's what's powering the world right now is about trust and transparency, and that's what Blockchain gives you, gives you trust in the system that no one person or no one government owns, and >> I really like that. >> But one thing important is I mean, we just have to demystify this like we just have to say, This is not about Cryptocurrency. That's one thing, and what I am is doing is enterprise blockchain and, you know, and Mike, you've talked about this. You always say, you know, black jeans, not going toe, you know, save the world or, you know it's not going to get rid of poverty. But there's four use cases that we've drilled down to in the supply chain realm, and there's the financial services. And so those are some of the things we're tackling, and I think it's important to like talk about that. And, you know, there's these hipsters every time we go and talk anything with regarding the blockchain, we know a big chunk of people, therefore Cryptocurrency and apparently at consensus in New York, they reduce their audience from I can't remember the numbers. When >> I was >> in the two thousand >> last year were about House kicked out all the crypto >> currency people, and so it's important to make that distinction. >> I think the crypto winter probably hurt them more than taking up, because last year there was a lot of hype there, but I think the bubble was already burst around February last year. But this piece of the good point is something that we've been kind of covering on silicon angle. The Cube is there's infrastructure dynamic. The engineering goodness. I think that certainly is intoxicating to think about Blockchain as an impact. Engineering wise, the token conversation brings up utility, the decentralized crypto currency, the icy, his initial coin offerings. The fraud part or regulated part has caused a lot of problems. So to me, well, I tell people was looking the CEO kind of scams and fraud kind of put a shadow on token economics. And Blockchain is a technology so supply chain no doubt is great. Blockchain. That's where you guys are focused. That's what the enterprise want. Way start getting into tokens. Tokens is a form of measurement. Uh huh. And that's where I think the regulators to do your point earlier is it's caused a lot of problems. So you know, the says if you got a utility token and you're selling >> it, it's Zane exchanges, not kill each other. So that's you're >> called. A lot of it would call those app developers. >> Yeah, but the up developers were still out there, right? And what's nice is these app developers that are on the side building these unique little applications. They still end up working for these larger companies and driving interesting solutions through like we're doing with supply chain like we're doing financial services like what we're doing in Telco and Media. You look at the people that we're dealing with in these companies. They came from building those applications. Heck, some of our own product managers came from building unique things mining rigs and mining companies. So you still have that background. They still have that entrepreneurial, you know, asset. And that's what's changing these cos they're driving change these companies saying, Hey, look, we can use the blockchain for this really unique thing that opens up a brand new business line, you know, for this large corporation, >> you know, I showed you our check preview. We did a quick preview of'Em World last year with our block changing me with a cube coin token, kind of total experimental thing. And it was interesting time because I think you hit the nail on the head. We as entrepreneurial developers. I had this great application we want to do for the Cube community, but we were stalled by the you know, the crypto winter, and you know, we're Apple developers, so there's many use cases of such scenarios like that. That's kind of people are kind of halfway between a Z A B. What's your advice toe to us, or folks like us who were out there who want to get the project back on track? What what what should we and application will do? They should they free focus on the infrastructure peace? What's your advice for the marketplace? >> It's so early, it's It's so early to actually really comment on that. I mean, I would say Just keep at it because you never know. It's I feel like we're so early in the game that though we can solve world hunger, there's so many use cases and applications that come out of it and we just have to keep going. And I think the developer community is what's going to make this successful, you know, and even emerging standards. I think that's one thing is standards across, You know, these block chains like we don't have that right now, and that's something we really need to need to do. And >> I don't know we program in Ethereum. >> So the question is, is that a bad choice is a lot of cognitive dissonance around with the right to. >> That's what I was just going to bring up is that >> you know, you brought up the point of your an app developer and you become stalled, you know, in your project. And we see that exactly same thing happening in the enterprise. We go into account after account where they've chosen some block change solution that's out there and to become what I call a stalled pioneer. They've gone through. They develop that application. But they either hit a scale, ability issue and then, you know, throughput or the number of nodes. They hit an operations thing. You know, operations comes in and says, Whoa, how are you going to do an audit on that thing? What about data Sovereign? What about GPR? What about this one? How are we? My God, you're gonna operate it inside of my environment? You know, what's the security side? So it's really round scale ability. It's around operations. It's around security. Those are three things we hit on over and over and over again with the stalled pioneers. So those of the accounts that we go into and rescue them essentially right, we say we can provide you the scale. We can provide you the through, but we can provide you the operations. For twenty years, the Empire has been taking large, complex distributed systems and making you operate them at scale in an enterprise setting. Where the experts at it So we're doing that would block chain now and allowing your blockchain projects to succeed and >> really find that term. Yep. Yeah. Okay, So, radio. What's the feedback here? Obviously got. Got the demo. What's been some of the peer review Give us the the four one one on peer review here. People liking what's going on? >> I think the demo really talk to people. It was relatable. You're a There was a social good a demo. I think it really impacted them. Um, but some of the cool stuff we're doing is also like in the financial services side. You know, we've got Mohr interesting stuff on the supply chain, so the feedbacks been great. Ah, lot of focuses on VM are blockchain, which is also cool. We didn't quite have that last year. In radio, we had everyone running off in different directions. So now it's via more blockchain And what Mike talked about installed pioneers is you know, we were seeing scalability throughput on numbers. And, you know, we talked about it at the immoral Barcelona A numbers. They're looking really great. And, you know, we're we're optimizing pushing our platform so we could get to, you know, perhaps the papal numbers rave, and someday visa, >> you have high availability. You guys know scale. Yeah. You happy where you are right now? >> Very happy where we >> are right >> now. I mean, we've got great customers. Great feedback, you know, great solution that solving real world problems. You know, engineers like doing two things shipping code and solving stuff that's going to help the world. At least you're of'em where that's our culture, right? And And we're able to do that day in and day out and the entire block chains the cornerstone to that. That's what makes people happy. >> Mike Protein, We following your journey. Great. Teo, check in Great to hear the progress. Congratulations on the great demo reel Use cases in supply chain. We'LL be following you guys and keep in touch. Thanks for coming on the key. Absolutely. Thank you for >> the time >> chauffeur here with Lisa Martin here in San Francisco for work. You coverage of radio, the top engineering event where they all come together internally with GM, where one of a few press outlets here, the Cube bringing exclusive coverage. Thanks for watching.