(upbeat music) >> Narrator: From Seattle, Washington it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Imagine. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Rick here with theCUBE. We're at AWS Imagine, it's a show all about education. That's whether it's university, K to 12, community college, post-military service. Amazon is very, very committed to education market. It's part of the public sector group underneath Teresa Carlson. This is the second year of the conference. We're excited to be back, and really some interesting conversations about how does education move forward. 'Cause it doesn't necessarily have the best reputation for being the most progressive industry out there. So we're excited to have our next guest all the way from London, she's Dr. Amanda Broderick, the Vice-Chancellor and President of the University of East London. Welcome. >> Thank you very much. Thank you, very nice to meet you. >> Absolutely, so first off before we get into it, just kind of your impressions of this event, and kind of what Amazon is doing. Teresa did the keynote today, which is not insignificant. She's a super busy lady, and kind of what does this ecosystem, these resources, this kind of focus, do for you as an educator? >> The main reason that we're working with AWS in such a significant way is actually because of our genuine values alignment. Institutionally, those core priorities are really where we want to go as an organization. And for me this conference, this summit, has been an opportunity to share best practice, to innovate, to truly explore the opportunity to disrupt for ultimately, the end goal. Which is about the education, the development of our next generation, and the support of talent development for the future. >> But unfortunately, a lot of times it feels like institutions put the institution first, and we're seeing a lot of conversations here in the US about these ridiculously crazy, large endowments that sit in piles of money. And is the investment getting back to the students? Are we keeping our eye on the ball? That it's the students that need the investment, not all the other stuff, all the other distractions, that get involved in the higher education. >> I suppose that is where the University of East London is fundamentally different. Core to our mission is driving social mobility, and as such we have to be absolutely clear what those learner outcomes are, and they are about being able to access and accelerate in their careers, and indeed in their lifelong learning to enable them to progress in portfolio careers. >> Right, so it's interesting ahead the three topics for this shows is tomorrow's workforce, which we've talked a lot about the education. The role of ML, which I think is interesting that it got its own bullet. Just because machine learning is so pervasive, and software, and doing lots of things. And the one that that struck me is the effort to have higher predictability on the success of the student, and to really make sure that you're catching problems early, if there is a problem. You're actually using a lot of science to better improve the odds of that student success. A lot of conversation here about that topic. >> Absolutely, absolutely, and that machine learning approach is one of the key dimensions in our relationship with AWS. And this is not just about the student outcomes around continuation, engagement, progression, student success, but actually for the University of East London, it's also been about the identification of students at risk. So we fundamentally believe that health gain is a precondition of learning gain. Particularly important for an institution like ours that is so socially inclusive, and therefore what we're doing, we're actually one of ten institutions that have been funded by the government and working in partnership with AWS as a pilot to share best practice across the UK as a whole, is to identify the proxies. For example, mental health issues, to be able to signpost and traffic light the sign posting to areas of support and to be able to direct prevention, intervention and postvention strategies to those students at risk. And that project is actually a key area of our partnership development with AWS. >> And how long has that been going on? We talked it a little bit about it before we turn the cameras on, and it just seems so foundational to me that without putting in that infrastructure for these kids, regardless of their age, their probability of success on top of that, without a good foundation is so much less. So when did this become a priority? How are you prioritizing it? What are some of the really key measures that you're using to make sure that you're making progress against this goal? >> Absolutely, so the university has made good progress in terms of the fundamental issues of identifying where the correlations and the causations are between both physical and mental health and well-being, and outcomes. What we haven't been able to do at this point is the scalability of this issue, and that's really where this pilot project, which has literally been announced in the last couple of weeks, that we're working very closely with AWS in order to convert that core foundational research and development into scalable solutions. Not just for my own university, but actually for the sector as a whole. >> Right, so we talked about academic institutions, maybe not necessarily have the best reputation for innovation, especially kind of old storied ones with old ivy plants growing up old old brick walls. Is this a new kind of realization of the importance of this? Is this coming from maybe some of the more vocational kind of schools, or is it coming from the top? Do they realize that there's more to this than just making sure people study, and they know what they're doing when they turn in their test and get their paper in on time? >> It's both a top-down and bottom-up approach. It's fundamental to the University of East London. It's new ten year strategy vision 2028. Health gain is that precondition of learning gain. It's fundamental to the realization of our learner's success. But also it's come from a groundswell of the research and development outcomes over a number of years. So it's absolutely been the priority for the institution from September 2018, and we've been able to accelerate this over the last few months. >> So important. Such important work. Flipping the point a little bit on to something a little lighter, a little bit more fun, it's really innovation on the engagement with the students around things like mobile. We've had a lot of conversations here about integrating Alexa, and voice, and competing with online, and competing with other institutions, and being a little bit more proactive in engaging with the customer as your students. I wonder if you can share some thoughts as to how that has evolved over time. Again, you've been in the business for a while, and really starting to cater and be innovative on that front end, versus the back end, to be more engaging and help students learn in different ways. Where they are in little micro segments. It's a very different kind of approach. >> It absolutely is and one of our four major facilitating transformation projects, it's called our digital verse project, and that is across all of our activities of an institution, in terms of business transformation, our particular priority is prospect engagement, and how we actually convert our potential learners in more effective ways. Secondly, enhancing deeper learning, and how we then produce better learner outcomes. Thirdly, how we develop access to new ways of educational provision, 24/7 global access. And fourthly, how do we connect with employers in partnership to make sure that we get those challenges around pre-selection recruitment strategies, and we're unable to get the students, our learners, into careers post graduation. >> Right, and then what's the kind of feedback from the teachers and the professors? They have so much on their plate. Right, they've got their core academic research that they're doing, they're teaching their students, they've got a passion around that area. I always tell people it's like driving in the car in the snow at night with your headlights on, right. Just like all types of new regs that are coming in and requirements and law, and this that and the other. Now we're coming in with this whole four point digital transformation. Are they excited, are they overwhelmed, are they like finally, we're getting to do something different? I mean what's the take within the academics, specifically in your school? >> I think the answer to that is all of the above. >> All of the above. >> It really reflects the classic adoption curve. So you do have the innovators, you have the early adopters, and then you also have the laggards at the other end. And an often actually, the most traditional academics that have been doing things for many, many years, who are very set in their ways, if you expose them to new opportunities, new experiences, and actually provide them with the tools to innovate, they could be some of the best advocates for the transformation and we've certainly found that to be the case. >> Good, well Amanda, thanks for taking a few minutes of your time, it sounds like they're going to start the dancing here behind us soon. So I think we'll have to leave it there, but I look forward to seeing you sometime in London. >> Thank you very much. >> Alright, she's Dr. Amanda Broderick, I'm Jeff Rick, you're watching theCUBE. We're at AWS Imagine in Seattle. Thanks for watching we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> From the Amazon Meeting Center, in downtown Seattle, it's theCUBE. Covering Imagine a Better World, a global education conference, sponsored by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey welcome back, everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in downtown Seattle at AWS Imagine Education. About 900 people from 20 countries really coming together for the first ever AWS summit from public sector group, really focused just on education. We've got a little bit of a twist here, our next guest really coming from more of the artsy side of the house, which is always great to hear from. We've got Linda Drew, she's the Vice Chancellor, and Andy Cook, the Chief Operations Officer, both from Ravensbourne University in London. Welcome. >> We're really pleased >> Thank you. to be here, really excited. >> For the people that aren't familiar with Ravensbourne, give us a little overview of the school. >> We're in the center of London in Greenwich, which is right by the river. We have about two-and-a-half-thousand students and about 250 faculty. We specialize in design, media, and technology, and the interaction, and all that kind of stuff. >> Pretty fun space to be right now. >> Absolutely gorgeous place to be. >> There's so much talk about IT and the tech and IT in operations, but there's so much neat stuff happening really more on the creative side and in the arts. Leveraging technology in all different, new ways. >> Absolutely, it's kind of hand and glove, really. All the innovation that's happening is happening with the way that tech is disrupting what's happening in the creative workspace, and vice versa really. The two things are effecting each other. >> The channels of distribution now, being so open, there's no greater time to be an artist, a creator, because your path to publishing, your path to your audience is really, really short and direct, assuming you can get their attention. >> Absolutely, I think we recognize there's a huge opportunity there for us in terms of developing a competitive advantage in the sector using new, emerging technologies to forge a new path for the institution and help educate and bridge the skills gap for industry. >> What are the things you guys do, one of the classes is broadcast production, and we were talking to all of our guys behind the cameras that nobody can see, and that again is an evolving space and you guys, it's kind of an interesting play, on one hand you're talking about Shakespearian plays, on the other hand you're looking at the newest, latest, greatest way to get that out to consumers, to viewers, to schools, while training the people in the middle with the latest and greatest tools. You guys have started a AWS Elemental Experiment. I wonder if you can give us a little bit of color on that project. >> I can start, and I'll tell you about the impact that it has, and Andy might be able to follow up on some of the technical stuff. We've had a project going with the Royal Shakespeare Company in England, and it's one of their education programs where what we do is a three-way relationship between them, their plays being shot in Stratford-upon-Avon or in London, and one aspect of what happens is that what we do is host the live program that is shot in our TV production studio and jointly the recorded program and the live action is streamed to schools, several hundred schools at a time. Some of our recent shows have been reaching upwards of 85,000 school students at a time. >> 85,000? >> Absolutely. >> That is great reach. We'd been using the more traditional technology before and that was having some issues with school teachers and others that were saying they weren't getting a great service out of the live stream, and our students were a bit frustrated with what they were learning about the streaming technologies. Since having moved to AWS Elemental, that's really increased the satisfaction both of what our students are learning but also in what they're delivering in terms of the live streamed program and because they're streaming more than one thing, because we know that they're also streaming not just the content but also the British sign language. They're also streaming signed content as well. >> Great, great. Andy, you're on the hook for actually getting these systems up and working, right? >> (laughs) Well, I'm not sure about that, but I think Linda said it all, I think the previous stack of technology that we were using in this area were not reliable, we were getting a lot of jump outs with the streams, lots of complaints from our schools. This shift to Elemental has been transformational. Lots of really complimentary feedback from the schools that are taking part in this exercise. It's been really good. >> That's good, the story over and over with cloud basically anything is that the amount of scale and resources and expertise and hardware and software that Amazon can bring to bear on your behalf compared to what you can do on you own, it's just not the same and you're a relatively small school. It's that same scale delta whether it's a medium-size company, a big company, or multi-national. These guys have that massive scale across so many customers, and you get that delivered to your doorstep. >> As you well know, there's a massive shift taking place in the broadcast industry away from the, towards IP-driven technologies, so we see this as a real opportunity to develop our curriculum, add cloud technologies in to our existing courses and go on that journey away from the more traditional technologies to a cloud-based approach. >> I'm just curious if you've adopted cloud stuff in more your standard IT practices, or where are you on that journey? Or was the client satisfaction issue on these broadcasts what accelerated that adoption faster than your normal stuff? >> I think it's been quite closely related, in some ways. It's a bit kind of chicken and egg. We were already looking at ways of enhancing our infrastructure and this kind of stuff came along at the same time, so we just say how quickly can we get to move some of this stuff for our standard operational focus. >> I think most universities are in some sort of hybrid state running on premise services with some, putting their feet gently into the water of cloud technologies, but I think we're looking at really accelerating that journey towards AWS now for our infrastructure. >> I'm curious, were you here for the keynote this morning? >> Yeah, definitely. >> Did you see the Alexa movie with the kids in the dorm room? >> Yeah. >> Really exciting. Very exciting. >> I think one of the slides really sums up our journey and thoughts around working with Amazon. It's the IT transformation piece, then there's a adoption of machine learning in terms of improving the student experience, and then there's adopting cloud courses into our curriculum, so those three areas are really where we're looking to build a relationship with Amazon. >> It's interesting to see what defines this new education experience, because the kids have different expectations, they've all grown up with apps and mobile. To your point on the attention, if something's not working, they're used to flipping to another channel, switching to another input, so if it doesn't work, you only have their attention for a short period of time. I think it is really interesting to rethink what are the actual activities that define this new engagement and this new student experience while they're in your institution, and I thought that was a really pretty slick demo. >> That was a great example, really good demo. Some of the really exciting things that have come out of us adopting this technology thus far includes some students coming to us with ideas of setting up our very own television channel that we can broadcast on campus using this technology and a way of streaming it to students' phones and tablets so that they've got content about the university and it's activities on a regular basis. >> The ROI calculation for you to execute that when it's cloud-based is very, very different, right? >> Absolutely, yes >> It's pretty simple. (all laughing) Just buy a new rack of servers and the whole to-do. I'll give you the last word, what are you hoping to get out of these couple days here, what have you seen so far, any hallway conversations that are really getting your attention? >> Hopefully, not just a deeper relationship with AWS, but the traction to help us work towards innovating on creativity and technology into the future. >> Great. >> Brilliant. >> Andy goes I'm going to go with the Chancellor, smart man. (all laughing) >> Absolutely. >> Linda and Andy, thanks again for taking a few minutes-- >> Thank you very much. >> Absolute pleasure. and hope you enjoy the rest of your time here. >> Thank you. >> (mumbles) thank you. >> She's Linda, he's Andy, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE, we're at AWS Imagine Education in downtown Seattle. Thanks for watching. (electronic tones)

(upbeat music) >> Morning guys and girls, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Women in Data Science WIDS 2023 live at Stanford University. Lisa Martin here with my co-host for this segment, Tracy Zhang. We're really excited to be talking with a great female rockstar. You're going to learn a lot from her next, Jacqueline Kuo, solutions engineer at Dataiku. Welcome, Jacqueline. Great to have you. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank for being here. >> I'm so excited to be here. >> So one of the things I have to start out with, 'cause my mom Kathy Dahlia is watching, she's a New Yorker. You are a born and raised New Yorker and I learned from my mom and others. If you're born in New York no matter how long you've moved away, you are a New Yorker. There's you guys have like a secret club. (group laughs) >> I am definitely very proud of being born and raised in New York. My family immigrated to New York, New Jersey from Taiwan. So very proud Taiwanese American as well. But I absolutely love New York and I can't imagine living anywhere else. >> Yeah, yeah. >> I love it. >> So you studied, I was doing some research on you you studied mechanical engineering at MIT. >> Yes. >> That's huge. And you discovered your passion for all things data-related. You worked at IBM as an analytics consultant. Talk to us a little bit about your career path. Were you always interested in engineering STEM-related subjects from the time you were a child? >> I feel like my interests were ranging in many different things and I ended up landing in engineering, 'cause I felt like I wanted to gain a toolkit like a toolset to make some sort of change with or use my career to make some sort of change in this world. And I landed on engineering and mechanical engineering specifically, because I felt like I got to, in my undergrad do a lot of hands-on projects, learn every part of the engineering and design process to build products which is super-transferable and transferable skills sort of is like the trend in my career so far. Where after undergrad I wanted to move back to New York and mechanical engineering jobs are kind of few and fall far in between in the city. And I ended up landing at IBM doing analytics consulting, because I wanted to understand how to use data. I knew that data was really powerful and I knew that working with it could allow me to tell better stories to influence people across different industries. And that's also how I kind of landed at Dataiku to my current role, because it really does allow me to work across different industries and work on different problems that are just interesting. >> Yeah, I like the way that, how you mentioned building a toolkit when doing your studies at school. Do you think a lot of skills are still very relevant to your job at Dataiku right now? >> I think that at the core of it is just problem solving and asking questions and continuing to be curious or trying to challenge what is is currently given to you. And I think in an engineering degree you get a lot of that. >> Yeah, I'm sure. >> But I think that we've actually seen that a lot in the panels today already, that you get that through all different types of work and research and that kind of thoughtfulness comes across in all different industries too. >> Talk a little bit about some of the challenges, that data science is solving, because every company these days, whether it's an enterprise in manufacturing or a small business in retail, everybody has to be data-driven, because the end user, the end customer, whoever that is whether it's a person, an individual, a company, a B2B, expects to have a personalized custom experience and that comes from data. But you have to be able to understand that data treated properly, responsibly. Talk about some of the interesting projects that you're doing at Dataiku or maybe some that you've done in the past that are really kind of transformative across things climate change or police violence, some of the things that data science really is impacting these days. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think that what I love about coming to these conferences is that you hear about those really impactful social impact projects that I think everybody who's in data science wants to be working on. And I think at Dataiku what's great is that we do have this program called Ikig.AI where we work with nonprofits and we support them in their data and analytics projects. And so, a project I worked on was with the Clean Water, oh my goodness, the Ocean Cleanup project, Ocean Cleanup organization, which was amazing, because it was sort of outside of my day-to-day and it allowed me to work with them and help them understand better where plastic is being aggregated across the world and where it appears, whether that's on beaches or in lakes and rivers. So using data to help them better understand that. I feel like from a day-to-day though, we, in terms of our customers, they're really looking at very basic problems with data. And I say basic, not to diminish it, but really just to kind of say that it's high impact, but basic problems around how do they forecast sales better? That's a really kind of, sort of basic problem, but it's actually super-complex and really impactful for people, for companies when it comes to forecasting how much headcount they need to have in the next year or how much inventory to have if they're retail. And all of those are going to, especially for smaller companies, make a huge impact on whether they make profit or not. And so, what's great about working at Dataiku is you get to work on these high-impact projects and oftentimes I think from my perspective, I work as a solutions engineer on the commercial team. So it's just, we work generally with smaller customers and sometimes talking to them, me talking to them is like their first introduction to what data science is and what they can do with that data. And sort of using our platform to show them what the possibilities are and help them build a strategy around how they can implement data in their day-to-day. >> What's the difference? You were a data scientist by title and function, now you're a solutions engineer. Talk about the ascendancy into that and also some of the things that you and Tracy will talk about as those transferable, those transportable skills that probably maybe you learned in engineering, you brought data science now you're bringing to solutions engineering. >> Yeah, absolutely. So data science, I love working with data. I love getting in the weeds of things and I love, oftentimes that means debugging things or looking line by line at your code and trying to make it better. I found that on in the data science role, while those things I really loved, sometimes it also meant that I didn't, couldn't see or didn't have visibility into the broader picture of well like, well why are we doing this project? And who is it impacting? And because oftentimes your day-to-day is very much in the weeds. And so, I moved into sales or solutions engineering at Dataiku to get that perspective, because what a sales engineer does is support the sale from a technical perspective. And so, you really truly understand well, what is the customer looking for and what is going to influence them to make a purchase? And how do you tell the story of the impact of data? Because oftentimes they need to quantify well, if I purchase a software like Dataiku then I'm able to build this project and make this X impact on the business. And that is really powerful. That's where the storytelling comes in and that I feel like a lot of what we've been hearing today about connecting data with people who can actually do something with that data. That's really the bridge that we as sales engineers are trying to connect in that sales process. >> It's all about connectivity, isn't it? >> Yeah, definitely. We were talking about this earlier that it's about making impact and it's about people who we are analyzing data is like influencing. And I saw that one of the keywords or one of the biggest thing at Dataiku is everyday AI, so I wanted to just ask, could you please talk more about how does that weave into the problem solving and then day-to-day making an impact process? >> Yes, so I started working on Dataiku around three years ago and I fell in love with the product itself. The product that we have is we allow for people with different backgrounds. If you're coming from a data analyst background, data science, data engineering, maybe you are more of like a business subject matter expert, to all work in one unified central platform, one user interface. And why that's powerful is that when you're working with data, it's not just that data scientist working on their own and their own computer coding. We've heard today that it's all about connecting the data scientists with those business people, with maybe the data engineers and IT people who are actually going to put that model into production or other folks. And so, they all use different languages. Data scientists might use Python and R, your business people are using PowerPoint and Excel, everyone's using different tools. How do we bring them all in one place so that you can have conversations faster? So the business people can understand exactly what you're building with the data and can get their hands on that data and that model prediction faster. So that's what Dataiku does. That's the product that we have. And I completely forgot your question, 'cause I got so invested in talking about this. Oh, everyday AI. Yeah, so the goal of of Dataiku is really to allow for those maybe less technical people with less traditional data science backgrounds. Maybe they're data experts and they understand the data really well and they've been working in SQL for all their career. Maybe they're just subject matter experts and want to get more into working with data. We allow those people to do that through our no and low-code tools within our platform. Platform is very visual as well. And so, I've seen a lot of people learn data science, learn machine learning by working in the tool itself. And that's sort of, that's where everyday AI comes in, 'cause we truly believe that there are a lot of, there's a lot of unutilized expertise out there that we can bring in. And if we did give them access to data, imagine what we could do in the kind of work that they can do and become empowered basically with that. >> Yeah, we're just scratching the surface. I find data science so fascinating, especially when you talk about some of the real world applications, police violence, health inequities, climate change. Here we are in California and I don't know if you know, we're experiencing an atmospheric river again tomorrow. Californians and the rain- >> Storm is coming. >> We are not good... And I'm a native Californian, but we all know about climate change. People probably don't associate all of the data that is helping us understand it, make decisions based on what's coming what's happened in the past. I just find that so fascinating. But I really think we're truly at the beginning of really understanding the impact that being data-driven can actually mean whether you are investigating climate change or police violence or health inequities or your a grocery store that needs to become data-driven, because your consumer is expecting a personalized relevant experience. I want you to offer me up things that I know I was doing online grocery shopping, yesterday, I just got back from Europe and I was so thankful that my grocer is data-driven, because they made the process so easy for me. And but we have that expectation as consumers that it's going to be that easy, it's going to be that personalized. And what a lot of folks don't understand is the data the democratization of data, the AI that's helping make that a possibility that makes our lives easier. >> Yeah, I love that point around data is everywhere and the more we have, the actually the more access we actually are providing. 'cause now compute is cheaper, data is literally everywhere, you can get access to it very easily. And so, I feel like more people are just getting themselves involved and that's, I mean this whole conference around just bringing more women into this industry and more people with different backgrounds from minority groups so that we get their thoughts, their opinions into the work is so important and it's becoming a lot easier with all of the technology and tools just being open source being easier to access, being cheaper. And that I feel really hopeful about in this field. >> That's good. Hope is good, isn't it? >> Yes, that's all we need. But yeah, I'm glad to see that we're working towards that direction. I'm excited to see what lies in the future. >> We've been talking about numbers of women, percentages of women in technical roles for years and we've seen it hover around 25%. I was looking at some, I need to AnitaB.org stats from 2022 was just looking at this yesterday and the numbers are going up. I think the number was 26, 27.6% of women in technical roles. So we're seeing a growth there especially over pre-pandemic levels. Definitely the biggest challenge that still seems to be one of the biggest that remains is attrition. I would love to get your advice on what would you tell your younger self or the previous prior generation in terms of having the confidence and the courage to pursue engineering, pursue data science, pursue a technical role, and also stay in that role so you can be one of those females on stage that we saw today? >> Yeah, that's the goal right there one day. I think it's really about finding other people to lift and mentor and support you. And I talked to a bunch of people today who just found this conference through Googling it, and the fact that organizations like this exist really do help, because those are the people who are going to understand the struggles you're going through as a woman in this industry, which can get tough, but it gets easier when you have a community to share that with and to support you. And I do want to definitely give a plug to the WIDS@Dataiku team. >> Talk to us about that. >> Yeah, I was so fortunate to be a WIDS ambassador last year and again this year with Dataiku and I was here last year as well with Dataiku, but we have grown the WIDS effort so much over the last few years. So the first year we had two events in New York and also in London. Our Dataiku's global. So this year we additionally have one in the west coast out here in SF and another one in Singapore which is incredible to involve that team. But what I love is that everyone is really passionate about just getting more women involved in this industry. But then also what I find fortunate too at Dataiku is that we have a strong female, just a lot of women. >> Good. >> Yeah. >> A lot of women working as data scientists, solutions engineer and sales and all across the company who even if they aren't doing data work in a day-to-day, they are super-involved and excited to get more women in the technical field. And so. that's like our Empower group internally that hosts events and I feel like it's a really nice safe space for all of us to speak about challenges that we encounter and feel like we're not alone in that we have a support system to make it better. So I think from a nutrition standpoint every organization should have a female ERG to just support one another. >> Absolutely. There's so much value in a network in the community. I was talking to somebody who I'm blanking on this may have been in Barcelona last week, talking about a stat that showed that a really high percentage, 78% of people couldn't identify a female role model in technology. Of course, Sheryl Sandberg's been one of our role models and I thought a lot of people know Sheryl who's leaving or has left. And then a whole, YouTube influencers that have no idea that the CEO of YouTube for years has been a woman, who has- >> And she came last year to speak at WIDS. >> Did she? >> Yeah. >> Oh, I missed that. It must have been, we were probably filming. But we need more, we need to be, and it sounds like Dataiku was doing a great job of this. Tracy, we've talked about this earlier today. We need to see what we can be. And it sounds like Dataiku was pioneering that with that ERG program that you talked about. And I completely agree with you. That should be a standard program everywhere and women should feel empowered to raise their hand ask a question, or really embrace, "I'm interested in engineering, I'm interested in data science." Then maybe there's not a lot of women in classes. That's okay. Be the pioneer, be that next Sheryl Sandberg or the CTO of ChatGPT, Mira Murati, who's a female. We need more people that we can see and lean into that and embrace it. I think you're going to be one of them. >> I think so too. Just so that young girls like me like other who's so in school, can see, can look up to you and be like, "She's my role model and I want to be like her. And I know that there's someone to listen to me and to support me if I have any questions in this field." So yeah. >> Yeah, I mean that's how I feel about literally everyone that I'm surrounded by here. I find that you find role models and people to look up to in every conversation whenever I'm speaking with another woman in tech, because there's a journey that has had happen for you to get to that place. So it's incredible, this community. >> It is incredible. WIDS is a movement we're so proud of at theCUBE to have been a part of it since the very beginning, since 2015, I've been covering it since 2017. It's always one of my favorite events. It's so inspiring and it just goes to show the power that data can have, the influence, but also just that we're at the beginning of uncovering so much. Jacqueline's been such a pleasure having you on theCUBE. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> For sharing your story, sharing with us what Dataiku was doing and keep going. More power to you girl. We're going to see you up on that stage one of these years. >> Thank you so much. Thank you guys. >> Our pleasure. >> Our pleasure. >> For our guests and Tracy Zhang, this is Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live at WIDS '23. #EmbraceEquity is this year's International Women's Day theme. Stick around, our next guest joins us in just a minute. (upbeat music)

>>Hello, everyone. Welcome to the cubes coverage, extended coverage of the V IP gala event. Earlier in the day, we were at the Monaco crypto summit, where we had 11 years, all the fault leaders here in MoCo coming together. It's a global event. It's an inner circle. It's a beginning, it's an ELG overall event. It's a kernel of the best of the best from finance entrepreneurship government coming together here with the gala event at the yacht club in Monaco. And we got a great lineup here. We have Sherman elder wish from decentralized investment group here with me. She and I was just talking and we're gonna have a great conversation. Welcome to the cube. Thank >>You so much. Thank you for having me. >>It's kind of our laid back to not only have an anchored desk, but we're kind of have conversations. You know, one of the things that we've been talking about is, you know, the technology innovation around decentralized, right? You've been an entrepreneur 9, 9, 9 years. Yes. Plus you're in a region of the world right now where it's exploding. You're in Dubai. Tell your story. You're in Dubai. There's a lot of action what's happening. >>So to Dubai is, is really the bridge between the east and the west. And it's grown. I've, I've had the privilege of witnessing Dubai's growth for over 16 years now. So I've been based in Dubai for 16 years. I'm originally from Jordan, lived in 11 countries. You can call me a global nomad home is where my suitcases and where I, you know, where I'm, I'm literally with my friends and community and the work that I do. So I've been there and I've witnessed this grow through working with the government there as well. So nine years ago, I jumped into the world of entrepreneurship. I specialize in art and education. Also, I work extensively now in decentralized with decentralized investment group. So we specialize in defi game five and also digital assets. So it's a beautiful time to be in Dubai right now. And witness that growth in web three, there's going to be a summit that's actually happening in September. And so it's attracting all the global leaders there with the government there. So they're really investing in, >>You know, the date on that. >>Sorry, >>You know the date on that? Yeah. Oh, >>September. They're going to be September, either 27th or >>28th. So later in the month, >>Yes. Later in the month of September. Okay. So it's very exciting to be a part >>Of that. Well, I love you're on here cause I want, first of all, you look fabulous. Great. Oh, thank you. Great event. Everyone's dressed up here. But one of the things I've been passionate about is women in tech. And I know you've got a project now you're working on this. Yes. Not only because it's it's needed. Yeah, but they're taking over. There's a lot of growth. Absolutely. The young entrepreneurs, young practitioners, absolutely young women all around the world. Absolutely. And we did a five region women in tech on March 7th with Stanford university, amazing. And Amazon web services. And I couldn't believe the stories. So we're gonna do more. And I want to get your take on this because there are stories that need to be told. Absolutely. What are, what are the, some of the stories that you're seeing, some of the, some of the cautionary tales, some of the successes, >>Well, you have, I mean the middle east right now is really a space, especially in Dubai, in the UAE, the growth of women in entrepreneurship, the support that we have from incubators, there, there is a hunger for growth and learning and innovation. And that is the beauty of being there. There are so many incredible stories, not one that I could say right now, but each and every story is exquisite and extraordinary. And what's really amazing is that you have the community there that supports one another, especially women in tech. I'm, I'm actually one of the co-founders of made for you global, which is a tech platform, which attracts entrepreneurship, female entrepreneurs, and really helping them kind of grow to their potential or maximize their potential. And we're actually going to have it on web three as well and integrate it within the blockchain. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of passion for, for growth in women, in tech and, and there's so many incredible stories to come, not just one, so many. And I invite you to come to Dubai so I can introduce you to all >>These incredible. So I'm really glad you're inclusive about men. >>Of course, we're inclusive >>About men, >>You know, men and women. I mean, it's a community that brings together these ideas. >>Yeah. I will say I had to go the microphone one time because I love doing the Stanford women in data science, but they, and we have female, a host. I just wanna do the interviews right there. So smart. I said, Chuck, can we have the female interviews cuz you know, like, okay, but they included me. Oh yes. But in all serious. Now this is a major force because women entrepreneurship make up 50% of the, the target audience of all products. Absolutely. So if, why, why isn't there more developers and input into the products and policies, right? That shape our society. This has been one of those head scratching moments and we're making progress, but not fast enough. >>Absolutely. And you know what, especially after COVID, so after COVID we all learned the lessons of the hybrid models of being more flexible of being more innovative of being making use of our time more effectively. And we've witnessed like an increase in women in tech over the years and especially in web three and decentralized investment group invest heavily into women and in tech as well, >>Give some examples of some things you're working on right now, projects you're investing in. So >>We're, well, everything that we do is inclusive of women. So with game five, for example, we specialize greatly in game five through our subsidiary company, based in the us, it's called X, Y, Z, Z Y it's gaming. And actually many of our creative team are women who are the developers behind the scenes who are bringing it to life. A lot of basically we're trying to educate the public as well about how to get meta mask wallets and to enter into this field. It's all about education and growing that momentum to be able to be more and more inclusive. >>Do you think you can help us get a cube host out there? Of course, of course they gotta be dynamic. Of course smart of course and no teleprompter of >>Course. And we would love for you to come so that we can really introduce you to >>All well now, now that COVID is over. We got a big plan on going cube global, digging it out in 2019, we had London, Bahrain, Singapore, amazing Dubai, Korea. Amazing. And so we wanted to really get out there and create a node, right? And open source kind of vibe where right. The folks all around the world can connect through the network effects. And one thing I noticed about the women in tech, especially in your area is the networking is really high velocity. Absolutely people like the network out there is that, do you see that as well? Absolutely. >>Because it's a, it's a city of transition, you know? So that's the beauty of Dubai, it's positioning power. And also it's a very innovative hub. And so with all of these summits that are coming up, it's attracting the communities and there's lots of networking that happens there. And I think more and more we're seeing with web three is that it is all about the community. It's all about bringing everyone together. >>Well, we got people walking through the sets. See, that's the thing that about a cocktail party. You got people walking through the set that's good. Made, had some color. Rachel Wolfson is in the house. Rachel is here. That's Rachel Woodson. If you didn't recognize her she's with coin Telegraph. Oh bless. I don't know who they, the Glo is as they say, but that's how he went cool to me. All right. So betting back to kinda what you're working on. Have you been to Silicon valley lately? Because you're seeing a lot of peering where people are looking at web three and saying, Hey, Silicon valley is going through a transition too. You're seeing beacons of outposts, right? Where you got people moving to Miami, you got Dubai, you got Singapore, you got, you know, Japan, all these countries. Now there's a, there's a network effect. >>Absolutely. It's all about. And honestly, when I see, I mean, I've been to Miami so many times this year for all the web three events and also in Austin and GTC as well. And what you see is that there is this ripple effect that's happening and it is attracting more and more momentum because the conversations are there and the openness to work together. It's all about partnerships and collaboration. This is a field which is based on collaboration communities. >>Awesome. What are some of the advice advice you have for women out there that are watching around being an entrepreneur? Because we were talking before we came on camera about it's hard. It's not easy. It's not for the faint of heart. Yeah. As Theresa Carlson, a friend of mine used, used to say all the time entrepreneurship was a rollercoaster. Of course, what's your advice don't give up or stay strong. What's your point of view? >>Honestly, if you're passionate about what you do. And I know it sounds very cliche. It's really important to stay focused, moving forward, always. And really it's about partnerships. It's about the ability to network. It's the ability to fail as well. Yeah. And to learn from your mistakes and to know when to ask for help. A lot of the times, you know, we shy away from asking for help or because we're embarrassed, but we need to be more open to failing, to growing and to also collaborating with one another. >>Okay. So final question for you while I got, by the way, you're an awesome guest. Oh, thank you. What are you what's next for you? What are you working on right now? Next year? What's on your goal list. What's your project? What's >>Your top goal? Oh my gosh. >>Top three, >>Top three, definitely immersing myself more into web three. Web three is definitely the future getting made for you global on the ground and running in terms of the networking aspect in a female entrepreneurship, more and more giving back as well. So using web three for social good. So a lot more charitable, innovative kind of campaigns that we hope to host within the web three community to be able to educate, to innovate and also help those that are, that need it the most as >>Well. Shaman, thank you for coming on the cube. I really appreciate it. And thanks for coming on. Thank you >>So much. >>I'm so grateful. Okay. You watching the queue, we're back in the more coverage here at the after party of the event, it's the VIP gala with prince Albert and all the top guests in Monica leaning into crypto I'm John furier. Thanks for watching.

>>Yeah. Hello and welcome to the Cubes Presentation of Women in Tech Global Event Celebrating International Women's Day I'm John for a host of the Cube. We had a great guest in Cuba. Alumni Veranda re vice president. Commercial sales for Europe, Middle East and Africa. EMEA at AWS Amazon Web service to great to see you. Thank you for coming in all the way across the pond and the US to Palo Alto from London. >>Thank you, John. Great to see you again. I'm super excited to be part of this particularly special event. >>Well, this is a celebration of International Women's Day. It's gonna continue throughout the rest of the year, and every day is International Women's Day. But you're actually international. Your women in Tech had a great career. We talk that reinvent. Let's step back and walk through your career. Highlights to date. What have been some of the key things in your career history that you can share? >>Uh, thanks, John. It's always nice to reflect on this, you know? Look, I the way I would classify my career. First of all, it's very it's been very international. I was born and raised in India I went to study in the US It was always a dream to go do that. I did my masters in Boston University. I then worked in the U S. For a good 17 years across A number of tech, uh, tech companies in particular, started my career at McKinsey in the very early days and then moved on to work for E M. C. You'll you'll probably remember them, John. Very well, of course, There now, Del um And then I moved over to Europe. So I've spent the last 18 years here in Europe. Um, and that's been across a couple of different things. I I always classify. Half my career has been strategy, transformation, consulting, and the other half of my career is doing the real job of actually running operations. And I've been, you know, 12 15 years in the tech and telecom sector had the excitement of running Schneider Electric's business in the UK Denniston and Private Equity went back to McKinsey Boomerang, and then a W s called me, and how could I possibly refuse that? So it's been really exciting, I think the one big take away when I reflect on my career is. I've always had this Northstar about leading a business someday, and then I've sort of through my career master set of skills to be able to do that. And I think that's probably what you see. Very eclectic, very mobile, very international and cross industry. Uh, in particular. >>I love the strategy and operations comment because they're both fun, but they're different ones. Very execution, tactical operating. The business strategy is kind of figuring out the future of the 20 mile stare. You know, playing that chess match, so to speak, all great skills and impressive. But I have to ask you, what got you in the tech sector? Why technology? >>Well, so you know, in some ways I kind of fell into it, John, right? Because when I was growing up, my father was always in the tech space, so he had a business and fax machines and he was a reseller of cannon. If you remember Cannon, um, and microfilm equipment and I grew up around him, and he was a real entrepreneur. I mean, always super visionary about new things that were coming out. And so as I followed him around, I said, I kind of wanna be him. And it's a little bit about that sort of role model right early in your career. And then when I moved to the U. S. To study again, it wasn't like I thought I was gonna go to attack. I mean, I wasn't an engineer, you know. I grew up in India with economics degree. That's when women went into We didn't necessarily go into science. But when I joined McKinsey in the early days, I ended up working with, you know, the big companies of the days. You know, the IBMs, the E M. C. Is the Microsoft the oracles, etcetera. So I just then began to love, love the innovation, always being on the sort of bleeding edge. Um, and I guess it was a little bit just fascinating for me not being an engineer to learn how technology had all these applications in terms of how businesses advanced. So I guess, Yeah, that's kind of why I still think it around with it. It's interesting >>how you mentioned how you at that time you pipeline into economics, which is math. Of course. Uh, math is needed for economics, but also the big picture and This is one of the conversation we're having, Uh, this year, the breaking down the barriers for women in tech. Now there's more jobs you don't You don't need to have one pathway into into science or, you know, we're talking stem versus steam arts are super important, being creative. So the barriers to get in are being removed. I mean, if you think about the surface area for technology. So I got to ask you, what barriers do you think Stop girls and young women the most in considering a career in Tech? >>I've got to start with role models, John. Right? Because I think a number of us grew up, by the way, being the only not having the allies in the business, right? All of us, all the all the managers and hiring people are males rather than females. And the fact of the matter is, we didn't have this sort of he for she movement. And I think that's the biggest barrier is not having enough role models and positive role models in the business. I can tell you that research shows that actually, when you have female role models, you tend to hire more and actually what employees say is they feel more supportive when they have actually female managers. So I think there are lots of goodness, but we just need to accelerate how many role models we have. I think the other things I will say to you as well is, if you look at just the curriculum and the ability to get women into stem, right, I mean, we need to have colleges, universities, schools also encouraging women into stem. And you've probably heard about our programme. You know, it's something we do to encourage girls into stem. I think it's really important that teachers and others are actually encouraging girls to do math, for example, right? It's not just about science. Math is great. Logic is great, by the way. Philosophy is great. I just love what you said. I think increasingly, the EQ and EQ parts have to come together, and I think that's what women excel at. Um, so I think that's another very, very big carrier, and then the only other thing I will say is we're gonna watch the language we use, like when I think about job descriptions, they tend to be very male oriented languages we look at CVS now, if you haven't been a female in tech for a long time, your CV isn't going to show a lot of tech, is it? So for recruiters out there, look for competencies. Look for capabilities. You mentioned strategy and arts earlier. We have this leadership principles, As you know, John, really well, think big and dive deep, right? That strategy and operations. And so I think we we need to recruit for that. And we need to recruit for culture. And we need to recruit for people with ambition, an aspiration and not always Just look at 20 years of experience because you're not gonna find it. So I think those are some of the big barriers. Um, that I that I at least think, is stopping women from getting into town. But the biggest one is not enough women at the top hiring women. >>I think people want to see themselves, or at least an aspirational version of what they could be. And I think that's only gonna get better. Lots changed. A lot has happened over the years, but now, with technology in everyone's life, covid pulled forward a lot of realities. You know, the current situation in Europe where you're you are now has pulled forward a lot of realities around community, cyber, digital, our lives. And I think this opens up new positions, clearly cybersecurity. And I'm sure the job boards in every company is hiring people that didn't exist years ago, but also this new problems to solve. So the younger generation coming up, um, is gonna work on these problems, and they need to have role models. So what's your reaction to that? You know, new problems are opportunities their new so usually solved by probably the next generation. Uh, they need mentors. All this kind of works together. What's your reaction? >>Yeah, and, you know, let me pick up on something we're doing that I think is really important. I think you have to address age on the pipeline problem, you know, because they're just is a pipeline problem, you know, at the end of the day, And by that, what I mean is, we need to have more and more people with the and I'm not gonna use the word engineering or science. I'm going to use the word digital skills, right? And I think what we've we've committed to doing, John, you know, I'm very proud of this is we said we're gonna train 29 people 29 million people around this world on digital skills for free by 2025. Right, That's gonna help us get that pipeline going. The other thing we do is something called Restart where we actually do 12 weeks of training for the under, employed and under served right and underrepresented communities. And that means in 12 weeks we can get someone. And you know, this case I talk to you about this before I love it. Fast food operator to cloud, right? I mean, that's that's what I call changing the game on pipeline. But But here's the other stand. Even if the pipeline is good and we often see that the pipeline can be as much as 50% at the very early career women, by the time you get into the C suite, you're not a 50 anymore. You're less than 20%. So the other big thing John there, and this comes back to the types of roles you have an opportunities you create. We've got to pull women through the pipeline. We've really got to encourage that there are sponsors and not just mentors. I think women are sorry to say this over mentored and under sponsored. We need more people say I'm gonna open the door for you and create the opportunity I had that advantage. I hit people through my career. By the way, they were all men, right? Who actually stood out there and bang on the door and said, Okay, Tunisia is gonna go do this. And my first break I remember was having done strategy all my life when the CEO come into the room and you said, You're gonna better locks and you're gonna go run the P and L in Benelux and I almost fainted because I thought, Oh, my God, I've never run a PNR before But it's that type of risk taking that's going to be critical. And I think we've got to train our leaders and our managers to have those conversations be the sponsors, get that unconscious bias training. We all have it. Every single one of us has it. I think those are the combinations of things that are going to actually help open the door and make a see that Actually, it's not just about coding. It's actually about sales. It's about marketing. It's about product management. It's about strategy. It's about sales operations. It's about really, really thinking differently about your customers, right? And that's the thing that I think is attractive about technology. And you know what? Maybe that leads you to eventually become a coder. Or maybe not. Maybe you enter from coding, but those are all the range is available to you in technology, which is not good at advertising, >>that there's more applications than ever before. But I love your comment about over mentoring and under sponsored. Can you quickly just define the difference between those two support elements sponsoring versus, uh, mentoring sponsoring >>So mentors And by the way they can range from my son is my mentor, you know, is a great reverse mentor. By the way, I really encourage you to have the reverse mentoring going. So many mentors are people from all walks of your life, right? And you should have, you know, half a dozen of those. At least I think right who are going to be able to help you deal with situations, help coach you give you feedback respond to concerns You're having find ways for you to navigate all the stuff you need, by the way. Right? And feedback the gift we need that sponsors. It's not about the feedback. Necessarily. It's people who literally will create opportunities for you. Mentors don't necessarily do that. Sponsors will say you You know what? We got the phone. Call John and say, John, I've got the perfect person for you. You need to go speak to her. That's the big difference. John and a couple of sponsors. It's not about many, >>and that's where the change happens. I love that comment. Good call. I'm glad I could double down on that. Now that you have the environment, pipeline and working, you have the people themselves in the environment getting better sponsors and mentors, hopefully working more and more together. But once they're in the environment, they still got to be part of it. So as girls and young women and to the working sector for tech, what advice would you give them? Because now they're in the game there in the arena. So what advice would you give them? Because the environments they are now >>yeah, yeah. I mean, Gosh, John, it's you know, you've lived your career in this space. It's an exciting place to be right. Um, it's a growth opportunity. And I think that's a really important point because the more you enter sectors where there's a lot of growth and I would say hyper right growth, that's just gonna open the doors to so many more things. If you're in a place where it's all about cost cutting and restructuring, do you know what? It's super hard to really compete and have fun, right? And as we say, make history. So it's an exciting place. Today's world transformation equals digital transformation, right? So tech is the place to be, because tech is about transformation, Right? So coming in here, the one advice I would give you is Just do it because believe me, there's so much you can do, like take the risk, find someone is going to give you that entree point and get in the door right? And look, you know what's the worst that could happen? The worst that could happen is you don't like it. Fine. There's lots of other things than to go to. So my advice is, you know, don't take the mm. The really bad tips I've received in my career, right? Don't let people tell you you can't do it. You're not good enough. You don't have the experience, right? It's a male's world. You're a woman. It's all about you and not about EQ. Because that's just rubbish, Frankly, right. The top tip I was ever given was actually to take the risk and go for it. And that was my father. And then all these other sponsors I've had around the way. So that's that's the one thing I would say. The other thing I will say to you is the reason I advise it and the reason you should go for it. It's purposeful. Technology is changing our lives, you know, And we will all live to be no longer. 87 I think 100 right? And so you have the opportunity to change the course of the world by coming to technology. The vaccine deployment John was a great example, right? Without cloud, we couldn't have launch these vaccines as fast as we did. Right? Um, so I think there's a tonne of purpose. You've got to get in and then you've got to find. As I said, those sponsors, you've got to find those mentors. You've got to not worry about vertical opportunities and getting promoted. You gotta worry about horizontal opportunities, right? And doing the things that I needed to get the skills that you require, right? I also say one thing. Um, don't Don't let people tell you not to speak up, not to express your opinion. Do all of the above be authentic, Be authentic style. You will see more role models. Many, many more role models are gonna come out in tech that are going to be female role models. And actually, the men are really stepping up to the role models. And so we will be better together. And here's the big thing. We need you. We can do this without women. There's no possible way that we will be able to deliver on the absolute incredible transformation we have ahead of us without you. >>Inclusion, Diversity equity. These are force multipliers for companies. If applied properly, it's competitive advantage. And so breaking the bias. The theme this year is super super important. It sounds like common sense, but the reality is you break the bias It's not just women as men, as all of us. What can we do? Better to bring that force multiplier capabilities and competitive advantage of inclusion, diversity, equity to business. >>So the first thing I would say and my doctor used to always tell me this if it hurts, don't do it right. I would say to you just do it. Get diverse teams in place because if you have diverse teams, you have diversity of thought. You don't have to worry as much about bias because, you know, you've got the people around the table who actually represent the world. We also do something really cool. We have something called biassed busters. And so in meetings we have bias borders. People are going to, like, raise their hand and say, I'm not sure that that was really meant the way it was supposed to be, So I think that's just a nice little mechanism that we have here, Um, in a W s that helps. The other thing I would say to you is being your authentic self. You can't be a man and mentioned be women, and you're not gonna replicate somebody else because you're never gonna succeed if you do that, you know? So I would say be your authentic self all of the time, You know, we know. We know that women are sometimes labelled as aggressive when they're really not. Don't worry about it. It's not personal. I think the main thing you have to do is and I advise women all the time Is calibrate the feedback you're getting okay? Don't catastrophizing it right. Calibrate it. Taken in, you don't have to react to every feedback in the world, right? And make sure that you're also conscious of your own biases, right? So I think those are my Those are my two cents John for what they were for breaking device. I love the thing. >>Be yourself, You know, Don't take it too personal. Have some fun. That's life. That's a life lesson. Um, Final question, while I got you here, you're a great inspiration, and you're a great role model. You're running a very big business for Amazon web services. Europe, Middle East and Africa is a huge territory. It's its own thing. It's It's like you're bigger than some companies out there. Your role in your organisation. What's the hot area out there you were talking before camera. That's emerging areas that you're focused on. People are watching this young women, young ladies around the world. We're gonna look at this and say, What wave should I jump on? What's the hot things happening in in Europe? Middle Eastern Africa? >>I think the three things I would mention and I'm sure there's I'm sure, John, as we've spoken to my peers across the other gos, right, there are some similarities. The very, very hot thing right now is sustainability. Um, and you know, people are really building sustainability into their strategy. It's no longer sort of just an E S G goal in itself. It's actually very much part of changing the way they do business. So I think that's the hard part. And that's why again, I think it's a phenomenal place to be. I think the other big thing that we're absolutely talking about a lot is, and you know, this is getting even more complicated right now is just around security and cyber security and where that's going and how can we be really thinking about how we address some of these concerns that are coming out and I think there's There's something. There's a lot to be said about the way we build our infrastructure in terms of that context. So I think that's the second one. I think the third one is. People are really looking at technology to change the way businesses operate. So how does HR operate? How do you improve your employee value proposition? How do you do marketing in the next generation? How do you do finance in the next generation? So across the business is no longer the place of I t. It really is about changing the way we are as businesses and all of us becoming tech companies at the core. So the big thing there, John, is data data at the heart of everything we do data not because it's there in front of you, but data because you can actually make decisions on the back of it. So those are the things, Um, I seem to come across a lot more than anything else. >>It's always great to talk to you, your senior leader at AWS, um, inspirational to many. And thank you for taking the time to speak with us here on this great event. Women in text. Global Celebration of International Women's Day. Thank you so much for your time. >>Thank you, John. Always great to talk to you. >>We will definitely be keeping in touch More storeys to be had and we're gonna bring it to you. This is the cubes continuing presentation of women in tech. A global event celebrating International Women's Day. I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>>Hello. I'm Professor Toru Suzuki Cherif cardiovascular medicine on associate dean of the College of Life Sciences at the University of Leicester in the United Kingdom, where I'm also director of the Lester Life Sciences accelerator. I'm also honorary consultant cardiologist within our university hospitals. It's part of the national health system NHS Trust. Today, I'd like to talk to you about our Lester Clinical Data Science Initiative. Now brief background on Lester. It's university in hospitals. Lester is in the center of England. The national health system is divided depending on the countries. The United Kingdom, which is comprised of, uh, England, Scotland to the north, whales to the west and Northern Ireland is another part in a different island. But national health system of England is what will be predominantly be discussed. Today has a history of about 70 years now, owing to the fact that we're basically in the center of England. Although this is only about one hour north of London, we have a catchment of about 100 miles, which takes us from the eastern coast of England, bordering with Birmingham to the west north just south of Liverpool, Manchester and just south to the tip of London. We have one of the busiest national health system trust in the United Kingdom, with a catchment about 100 miles and one million patients a year. Our main hospital, the General Hospital, which is actually called the Royal Infirmary, which can has an accident and emergency, which means Emergency Department is that has one of the busiest emergency departments in the nation. I work at Glen Field Hospital, which is one of the main cardiovascular hospitals of the United Kingdom and Europe. Academically, the Medical School of the University of Leicester is ranked 20th in the world on Lee, behind Cambridge, Oxford Imperial College and University College London. For the UK, this is very research. Waited, uh, ranking is Therefore we are very research focused universities as well for the cardiovascular research groups, with it mainly within Glenn Field Hospital, we are ranked as the 29th Independent research institution in the world which places us. A Suffield waited within our group. As you can see those their top ranked this is regardless of cardiology, include institutes like the Broad Institute and Whitehead Institute. Mitt Welcome Trust Sanger, Howard Hughes Medical Institute, Kemble, Cold Spring Harbor and as a hospital we rank within ah in this field in a relatively competitive manner as well. Therefore, we're very research focused. Hospital is well now to give you the unique selling points of Leicester. We're we're the largest and busiest national health system trust in the United Kingdom, but we also have a very large and stable as well as ethnically diverse population. The population ranges often into three generations, which allows us to do a lot of cohort based studies which allows us for the primary and secondary care cohorts, lot of which are well characterized and focused on genomics. In the past. We also have a biomedical research center focusing on chronic diseases, which is funded by the National Institutes of Health Research, which funds clinical research the hospitals of United Kingdom on we also have a very rich regional life science cluster, including med techs and small and medium sized enterprises. Now for this, the bottom line is that I am the director of the letter site left Sciences accelerator, >>which is tasked with industrial engagement in the local national sectors but not excluding the international sectors as well. Broadly, we have academics and clinicians with interest in health care, which includes science and engineering as well as non clinical researchers. And prior to the cove it outbreak, the government announced the £450 million investment into our university hospitals, which I hope will be going forward now to give you a brief background on where the scientific strategy the United Kingdom lies. Three industrial strategy was brought out a za part of the process which involved exiting the European Union, and part of that was the life science sector deal. And among this, as you will see, there were four grand challenges that were put in place a I and data economy, future of mobility, clean growth and aging society and as a medical research institute. A lot of the focus that we have been transitioning with within my group are projects are focused on using data and analytics using artificial intelligence, but also understanding how chronic diseases evolved as part of the aging society, and therefore we will be able to address these grand challenges for the country. Additionally, the national health system also has its long term plans, which we align to. One of those is digitally enabled care and that this hope you're going mainstream over the next 10 years. And to do this, what is envision will be The clinicians will be able to access and interact with patient records and care plants wherever they are with ready access to decision support and artificial intelligence, and that this will enable predictive techniques, which include linking with clinical genomic as well as other data supports, such as image ing a new medical breakthroughs. There has been what's called the Topol Review that discusses the future of health care in the United Kingdom and preparing the health care workforce for the delivery of the digital future, which clearly discusses in the end that we would be using automated image interpretation. Is using artificial intelligence predictive analytics using artificial intelligence as mentioned in the long term plans. That is part of that. We will also be engaging natural language processing speech recognition. I'm reading the genome amusing. Genomic announced this as well. We are in what is called the Midland's. As I mentioned previously, the Midland's comprised the East Midlands, where we are as Lester, other places such as Nottingham. We're here. The West Midland involves Birmingham, and here is ah collective. We are the Midlands. Here we comprise what is called the Midlands engine on the Midland's engine focuses on transport, accelerating innovation, trading with the world as well as the ultra connected region. And therefore our work will also involve connectivity moving forward. And it's part of that. It's part of our health care plans. We hope to also enable total digital connectivity moving forward and that will allow us to embrace digital data as well as collectivity. These three key words will ah Linkous our health care systems for the future. Now, to give you a vision for the future of medicine vision that there will be a very complex data set that we will need to work on, which will involve genomics Phanom ICS image ing which will called, uh oh mix analysis. But this is just meaning that is, uh complex data sets that we need to work on. This will integrate with our clinical data Platforms are bioinformatics, and we'll also get real time information of physiology through interfaces and wearables. Important for this is that we have computing, uh, processes that will now allow this kind of complex data analysis in real time using artificial intelligence and machine learning based applications to allow visualization Analytics, which could be out, put it through various user interfaces to the clinician and others. One of the characteristics of the United Kingdom is that the NHS is that we embrace data and captured data from when most citizens have been born from the cradle toe when they die to the grave. And it's important that we were able to link this data up to understand the journey of that patient. Over time. When they come to hospital, which is secondary care data, we will get disease data when they go to their primary care general practitioner, we will be able to get early check up data is Paula's follow monitoring monitoring, but also social care data. If this could be linked, allow us to understand how aging and deterioration as well as frailty, uh, encompasses thes patients. And to do this, we have many, many numerous data sets available, including clinical letters, blood tests, more advanced tests, which is genetics and imaging, which we can possibly, um, integrate into a patient journey which will allow us to understand the digital journey of that patient. I have called this the digital twin patient cohort to do a digital simulation of patient health journeys using data integration and analytics. This is a technique that has often been used in industrial manufacturing to understand the maintenance and service points for hardware and instruments. But we would be using this to stratify predict diseases. This'll would also be monitored and refined, using wearables and other types of complex data analysis to allow for, in the end, preemptive intervention to allow paradigm shifting. How we undertake medicine at this time, which is more reactive rather than proactive as infrastructure we are presently working on putting together what's it called the Data Safe haven or trusted research environment? One which with in the clinical environment, the university hospitals and curated and data manner, which allows us to enable data mining off the databases or, I should say, the trusted research environment within the clinical environment. Hopefully, we will then be able to anonymous that to allow ah used by academics and possibly also, uh, partnering industry to do further data mining and tool development, which we could then further field test again using our real world data base of patients that will be continually, uh, updating in our system. In the cardiovascular group, we have what's called the bricks cohort, which means biomedical research. Informatics Center for Cardiovascular Science, which was done, started long time even before I joined, uh, in 2010 which has today almost captured about 10,000 patients arm or who come through to Glenn Field Hospital for various treatments or and even those who have not on. We asked for their consent to their blood for genetics, but also for blood tests, uh, genomics testing, but also image ing as well as other consent. Hable medical information s so far there about 10,000 patients and we've been trying to extract and curate their data accordingly. Again, a za reminder of what the strengths of Leicester are. We have one of the largest and busiest trust with the very large, uh, patient cohort Ah, focused dr at the university, which allows for chronic diseases such as heart disease. I just mentioned our efforts on heart disease, uh which are about 10,000 patients ongoing right now. But we would wish thio include further chronic diseases such as diabetes, respiratory diseases, renal disease and further to understand the multi modality between these diseases so that we can understand how they >>interact as well. Finally, I like to talk about the lesser life science accelerator as well. This is a new project that was funded by >>the U started this January for three years. I'm the director for this and all the groups within the College of Life Sciences that are involved with healthcare but also clinical work are involved. And through this we hope to support innovative industrial partnerships and collaborations in the region, a swells nationally and further on into internationally as well. I realized that today is a talked to um, or business and commercial oriented audience. And we would welcome interest from your companies and partners to come to Leicester toe work with us on, uh, clinical health care data and to drive our agenda forward for this so that we can enable innovative research but also product development in partnership with you moving forward. Thank you for your time.

>>long from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back to the Cube. Here live in Las Vegas for aws reinvent I'm John for a devil on the ads, always extracting the signal from the noise. We're here for 1/7 reinvent of the eight years that they've had at what a wave. One of the biggest waves is the modernization of procurement, the modernization of business, commercial business and the rapid acceleration of public sector. We're here with the chief of public sector for AWS. Teresa Carlson, vice president publics that globally great to have you >>so great to have the Q begin this year. We appreciate you being here, >>so we're just seeing so much acceleration of modernization. Even in the commercial side, 80 talks about transformation. It's just a hard core on the public sector side. You have so many different areas transforming faster because they haven't transformed before. That's correct. This is a lot of change. What's changed the most for you in your business? >>Well, again, I'll be here 10 years this mad that A B s and my eighth reinvent, and what really changed, which was very exciting this year, is on Monday. We had 550 international government executives here from 40 countries who were talking about their modernization efforts at every level. Now again, think about that. 40 different governments, 550 executives. We had a fantastic day for them planned. It was really phenomenal because the way that these international governments or think about their budget, how much are they going to use that for maintaining? And they want to get that lesson last. Beckett for Modernization The Thin John It's a Beckett for innovation so that they continue not only modernized, but they're really looking at innovation cycles. So that's a big one. And then you heard from somewhere customers at the breakfast this morning morning from from a T. F. As part of the Department of Justice. What they're doing out. I'll call to back on firearms. They completely made you the cloud. They got rid of 20 years of technical debt thio the Veterans Administration on what they're digging for V A benefits to educational institutions like our mighty >>nose, and he had on stages Kino, Cerner, which the health care companies and what struck me about that? I think it relates to your because I want to get your reaction is that the health care is such an acute example that everyone can relate to rising costs. So cloud helping reduce costs increase the efficiencies and patient care is a triple win. The same thing happens in public sector. There's no place to hide anymore. You have a bona fide efficiencies that could come right out of the gate with cloud plus innovation. And it's happening in all the sectors within the public sector. >>So true. Well, Cerner is a great example because they won the award at V a Veteran's administration to do the whole entire medical records modernization. So you have a company on stage that's commercial as I met, commercial as they are public sector that are going into these large modernization efforts. And as you sit on these air, not easy. This takes focus and leadership and a real culture change to make these things happen. >>You know, the international expansion is impressive. We saw each other in London. We did the health care drill down at your office is, of course, a national health. And then you guys were in Bahrain, and what I deserve is it's not like these organizations. They're way behind. I mean, especially the ones that it moved to. The clouds are moving really fast. So well, >>they don't have as much technical debt internationally. It's what we see here in the U. S. So, like I was just in Africa and you know what we talked about digitizing paper. Well, there's no technology on that >>end >>there. It's kind of exciting because they can literally start from square one and get going. And there's a really hunger and the need to make that happen. So it's different for every country in terms of where they are in their cloud journey. >>So I want to ask you about some of the big deals. I'll see Jet eyes in the news, and you can't talk about it because it's in protest and little legal issues. But you have a lot of big deals that you've done. You share some color commentary on from the big deals and what it really means. >>Yeah, well, first of all, let me just say with Department of Defense, Jet are no jet. I We have a very significant business, you know, doing work at every part of different defense. Army, Navy, Air Force in the intelligence community who has a mission for d o d terminus a t o N g eight in a row on And we are not slowing down in D. O d. We had, like, 250 people at a breakfast. Are Lantian yesterday giving ideas on what they're doing and sharing best practices around the fence. So we're not slowing down in D. O d. We're really excited. We have amazing partners. They're doing mission work with us. But in terms of some really kind of fend, things have happened. We did a press announcement today with Finn Rat, the financial regulatory authority here in the U. S. That regulates markets at this is the largest financial transactions you'll ever see being processed and run on the cloud. And the program is called Cat Consolidated Audit Trail. And if you remember the flash crash and the markets kind of going crazy from 2000 day in 2008 when it started, Finneran's started on a journey to try to understand why these market events were happening, and now they have once have been called CAT, which will do more than 100 billion market points a day that will be processed on the cloud. And this is what we know of right now, and they'll be looking for indicators of nefarious behavior within the markets. And we'll look for indicators on a continuous basis. Now what? We've talked about it. We don't even know what we don't know yet because we're getting so much data, we're going to start processing and crunching coming out of all kinds of groups that they're working with, that this is an important point even for Finn rep. They're gonna be retiring technical debt that they have. So they roll out Cat. They'll be retiring other systems, like oats and other programs that they >>just say so that flash crash is really important. Consolidated, honest, because the flash crash, we'll chalk it up to a glitch in the system. Translation. We don't really know what happened. Soto have a consolidated auto trail and having the data and the capabilities, I understand it is really, really important for transparency and confidence in the >>huge and by the way, thinner has been working with us since 2014. They're one of our best partners and are prolific users of the cloud. And I will tell you it's important that we have industries like thin red regulatory authorities, that air going in and saying, Look, we couldn't possibly do what we're doing without cloud computing. >>Tell me about the technical debt because I like this conversation is that we talk about in the commercial side and developer kind of thinking. Most businesses start ups, Whatever. What is technical debt meet in public sector? Can you be specific? >>Well, it's years and years of legacy applications that never had any modernization associated with them in public sector. You know now, because you've talked about these procurement, your very best of your very savvy now public sector >>like 1995 >>not for the faint of heart, for sure that when you do procurement over the years when they would do something they wouldn't build in at new innovations or modernizations. So if you think about if you build a data center today a traditional data center, it's outdated. Tomorrow, the same thing with the procurement. By the time that they delivered on those requirements. They were outdated. So technical debt then has been built up years of on years of not modernizing, just kind of maintaining a status quo with no new insides or analytics. You couldn't add any new tooling. So that is where you see agencies like a T F. That has said, Wow, if I'm gonna if I'm gonna have a modern agency that tracks things like forensics understands the machine learning of what's happening in justice and public safety, I need to have the most modern tools. And I can't do that on an outdated system. So that's what we kind of call technical death that just maintains that system without having anything new that you're adding to >>their capabilities lag. Everything's products bad. Okay, great. Thanks for definite. I gotta ask you about something that's near and dear to our heart collaboration. If you look at the big successes in the world and within Amazon Quantum Caltex partnering on the quantum side, you've done a lot of collaboration with Cal Cal Poly for ground station Amazon Educate. You've been very collaborative in your business, and that's a continuing to be a best practice you have now new things like the cloud innovation centers. Talk about that dynamic and how collaboration has become an important part of your business model. >>What we use their own principles from Amazon. We got building things in our plan. Innovation centers. We start out piloting those two to see, Could they work? And it's really a public private partnership between eight MPs and universities, but its universities that really want to do something. And Cal Poly's a great example. Arizona State University A great example. The number one most innovative university in the US for like, four years in a row. And what we do is we go in and we do these public sector challenges. So the collaboration happens. John, between the public sector Entity, university with students and us, and what we bring to the table is technical talent, air technology and our mechanisms and processes, like they're working backwards processes, and they were like, We want you to bring your best and brightest students. Let's bring public sector in the bowl. They bring challenges there, riel that we can take on, and then they can go back and absorb, and they're pretty exciting. I today I talked about we have over 44 today that we've documented were working at Cal Poly. The one in Arizona State University is about smart cities. And then you heard We're announcing new ones. We've got two in France, one in Germany now, one that we're doing on cybersecurity with our mighty in Australia to be sitting bata rain. So you're going to see us Add a lot more of these and we're getting the results out of them. So you know we won't do if we don't like him. But right now we really like these partnerships. >>Results are looking good. What's going on with >>you? All right. And I'll tell you why. That why they're different, where we are taking on riel public sector issues and challenges that are happening, they're not kind of pie in the sky. We might get there because those are good things to do. But what we want to do is let's tackle things that are really homelessness, opioid crisis, human sex trafficking, that we're seeing things that are really in these communities and those air kind of grand. But then we're taking on areas like farming where we talked about Can we get strawberries rotting on the vine out of the field into the market before you lose billions of dollars in California. So it's things like that that were so its challenges that are quick and riel. And the thing about Cloud is you can create an application and solution and test it out very rapidly without high cost of doing that. No technical Dan, >>you mentioned Smart Cities. I just attended a session. Marty Walsh, the mayor of Boston's, got this 50 50 years smart city plan, and it's pretty impressive, but it's a heavy lift. So what do you see going on in smart cities? And you really can't do it without the cloud, which was kind of my big input cloud. Where's the data? What do you say, >>cloud? I O. T is a big part at these. All the centers that Andy talked about yesterday in his keynote and why the five G partnerships are so important. These centers, they're gonna be everywhere, and you don't even know they really exist because they could be everywhere. And if you have the five G capabilities to move those communications really fast and crypt them so you have all the security you need. This is game changing, but I'll give you an example. I'll go back to the kids for a minute at at Arizona State University, they put Io TI centers everywhere. They no traffic patterns. Have any parking slots? Airfield What Utilities of water, if they're trash bins are being filled at number of seats that are being taken up in stadiums. So it's things like that that they're really working to understand. What are the dynamics of their city and traffic flow around that smart city? And then they're adding things on for the students like Alexis skills. Where's all the activity? So you're adding all things like Alexa Abs, which go into a smart city kind of dynamic. We're not shop. Where's the best activities for about books, for about clothes? What's the pizza on sale tonight? So on and then two things like you saw today on Singapore, where they're taking data from all different elements of agencies and presenting that bad to citizen from their child as example Day one of a birth even before, where's all the service is what I do? How do I track these things? How do I navigate my city? to get all those service is the same. One can find this guy things they're not. They're really and they're actually happening. >>Seems like they're instrumented a lot of the components of the city learning from that and then deciding. Okay, where do we double down on where do we place? >>You're making it Every resilient government, a resilient town. I mean, these were the things that citizens can really help take intro Web and have a voice in doing >>threes. I want to say congratulations to your success. I know it's not for the faint of heart in the public sector of these days, a lot of blockers, a lot of politics, a lot of government lockers and the old procurement system technical debt. I mean, Windows 95 is probably still in a bunch of PCs and 50 45 fighters. 15 fighters. Oh, you've got a great job. You've been doing a great job and riding that wave. So congratulations. >>Well, I'll just say it's worth it. It is worth it. We are committed to public sector, and we really want to see everyone from our war fighters. Are citizens have the capabilities they need. So >>you know, you know that we're very passionate this year about going in the 2020 for the Cube and our audience to do a lot more tech for good programming. This'll is something that's near and dear to your heart as well. You have a chance to shape technology. >>Yes, well, today you saw we had a really amazing not for profit on stage with It's called Game Changer. And what we found with not for profits is that technology can be a game changer if they use it because it makes their mission dollars damage further. And they're an amazing father. And send a team that started game changer at. Taylor was in the hospital five years with terminal cancer, and he and his father, through these five years, kind of looked around. Look at all these Children what they need and they started. He is actually still here with us today, and now he's a young adult taking care of other young Children with cancer, using gaming technologies with their partner, twitch and eight MPs and helping analyze and understand what these young affected Children with cancer need, both that personally and academically and the tools he has He's helping really permit office and get back and it's really hard, Warren says. I was happy. My partner, Mike Level, who is my Gran's commercial sales in business, and I ran public Sector Day. We're honored to give them at a small token of our gift from A to B s to help support their efforts. >>Congratulates, We appreciate you coming on the Cube sharing the update on good luck into 2020. Great to see you 10 years at AWS day one. Still, >>it's day one. I feel like I started >>it like still, like 10 o'clock in the morning or like still a day it wasn't like >>I still wake up every day with the jump in my staff and excited about what I'm gonna do. And so I am. You know, I am really excited that we're doing and like Andy and I say we're just scratching the surface. >>You're a fighter. You are charging We love you, Great executive. You're the chief of public. Get a great job. Great, too. Follow you and ride the wave with Amazon and cover. You guys were documenting history. >>Yeah, exactly. We're in happy holidays to you all and help seeing our seventh and 20 >>so much. Okay, Cube coverage here live in Las Vegas. This is the cube coverage. Extracting the signals. Wanna shout out to eight of us? An intel for putting on the two sets without sponsorship, we wouldn't be able to support the mission of the Cube. I want to thank them. And thank you for watching with more after this short break.

>> Announcer: From London, England, it's theCUBE! Covering Coupa Insp!re'19 EMEA. Brought to you by Coupa. >> Hey, welcome to theCUBE. Lisa Martin on the ground in London at Coupa Insp!re'19. Can you hear all the buzz around me? You probably can hear it, it's electric. The keynote just ended, and I'm very pleased to welcome, fresh from the keynote stage, we have Rachel Botsman, author and trust expert from Oxford University. Rachel, welcome to theCUBE! >> Thank you for having me. >> Your talk this morning about the intersection of trust and technology, to say it's interesting is an understatement. You had some great examples where you showed some technology brands, that we all know, and have different relationships with: Uber, Facebook, and Amazon. And the way that you measured the audience is great, you know, clap the brand that you trust the most. And it was so interesting, because we expect these technology brands to, they should be preserving our information, but we've also seen recent history, some big examples, of that trust being broken. >> Rachel: Yeah, yeah. >> Talk to us about your perspectives. >> So what I thought was interesting, well kind of unexpected for me, was no one clapped for Facebook, not one person in the room. And this is really interesting to me, because the point that I was making is that trust is really, really contextual, right? So if I had said to people, do you trust on Facebook that you can find your friends from college, they probably would've clapped. But do I trust them with my data, no. And this distinction is so important, because if you lose trust in one area as a company or a brand, and it can take time, you lose that ability to interact with people. So our relationship and our trust relationship with brands is incredibly complicated. But I think, particular tech brands, what they're realizing is that, how badly things go wrong when they're in a trust crisis. >> Talk to me about trust as a currency. You gave some great examples this morning. Money is the currency for transactions, where trust is the currency of interactions. >> Yeah, well I was trying to frame things, not because they sound nice, but how do you create a lens where people can really understand, like what is the value of this thing, and what is the role that it plays? And I'm never going to say money's not important; money is very important. But people can understand money; people value money. And I think that's because it has a physical, you can touch it, and it has an agreed value, right? Trust I actually don't believe can be measured. Trust is, what is it? It's something there, there's a connection between people. So you know when you have trust because you can interact with people. You know when you have trust because you can place their faith in them, you can share things about yourself and also share things back. So it's kind of this idea that, think of it as a currency, think of it as something that you should really value that is incredibly fragile in any situation in any organization. >> How does a company like Coupa, or an Amazon or a Facebook, how do they leverage trust and turn it into a valuable asset? >> Yeah, I don't like the idea that you sort of unlock trust. I think companies that really get it right are companies that think day in and day out around behaviors and culture. If you get behaviors and culture right, like the way people behave, whether they have empathy, whether they have integrity, whether you feel like you can depend on them, trust naturally flows from that. But the other thing that often you find with brands is they think of trust as like this reservoir, right? So it's different from awareness and loyalty; it's not like this thing that, you can have this really full up battery which means then you can launch some crazy products and everyone will trust it. We've seen this with like, Mattel, the toy brand. They launched a smart system for children called Aristotle, and within six months they had to pull it because people didn't trust what it was recording and watching in people's bedrooms. We were talking about Facebook and the cryptocurrency Libra, their new smart assistants; I wouldn't trust that. Amazon have introduced smart locks; I don't know if you've seen these? >> Lisa: Yes. >> Where if you're not home, it's inconvenient for a very annoying package slip. So you put in an Amazon lock and the delivery person will walk into your home. I trust Amazon to deliver my parcels; I don't trust them to give access to my home. So what we do with the trust and how we tap into that, it really depends on the risk that we're asking people to take. >> That's a great point that you bring about Amazon, because you look at how they are infiltrating our lives in so many different ways. There's a lot of benefits to it, in terms of convenience. I trust Amazon, because I know when I order something it's going to arrive when they say it will. But when you said about trust being contextual and said do you trust that Amazon pays their taxes, I went wow, I hadn't thought of it in that way. Would I want to trust them to come into my home to drop off a package, no. >> Rachel: Yeah. >> But the, I don't know if I want to say infiltration, into our lives, it's happening whether we like it or not. >> Well I think Amazon is really interesting. First of all because so often as consumers, and I'm guilty, we let convenience trump trust. So we talk about trust, but, you know what, like, if I don't really trust that Uber driver but I really want to get somewhere, I'll get in the car, right? I don't really trust the ethics of Amazon as a company or like what they're doing in the world, but I like the convenience. I predict that Amazon is actually going to go through a major trust crisis. >> Lisa: Really? >> Yeah. The reason why is because their trust is largely, I talked about capability and character. Amazon's trust is really built around capability. The capability of their fulfillment centers, like how efficient they are. Character wobbles, right? Like, does Bezos have integrity? Do we really feel like they care about the bookshops they're eating up? Or they want us to spend money on the right things? And when you have a brand and the trust is purely built around capability and the character piece is missing, it's quite a precarious place to be. >> Lisa: I saw a tweet that you tweeted recently. >> Uh oh! (laughs) >> Lisa: On the difference between capability and character. >> Yes, yeah. >> Lisa: And it was fascinating because you mentioned some big examples, Boeing. >> Yes. >> The two big air disasters in the last year. Facebook, obviously, the security breach. WeWork, this overly aggressive business model. And you said these companies are placing the blame, I'm not sure if that's the right word-- >> No no, the blame, yeah. >> On product or service capabilities, and you say it really is character. Can you talk to our audience about the difference, and why character is so important. >> Yeah, it's so interesting. So you know, sometimes you post things. I actually post more on LinkedIn, and suddenly like, you hit a nerve, right? Because I don't know, it's something you're summarizing that many people are feeling. And so the point of that was like, if you look at Boeing, Theranos was another example, WeWork, hundreds of banks, when something goes wrong they say it was a flaw in the product, it was a flaw in the system, it's a capability problem. And I don't think that's the case. Because the root cause of capability problems come from character and culture. And so, capability is really about the competence and reliability of someone or a product or service. Character is how someone behaves. Character gets to their intentions and motives. Character gets to, did they know about it and not tell us. Even VW is another example. >> Lisa: Yes. >> So it's not the product that is the issue. And I think we as consumers and citizens and customers, where many companies get it wrong in a trust crisis is they talk about the product fix. We won't forgive them, or we won't start giving them our trust again until we really believe something's changed about their character. I'm not sure anything has changed with Facebook's culture and character, which is why they're struggling with every move that they take, even though their intentions might be good. That's not how people in the world are viewing them. >> Do you think, taking Boeing as an example, I fly a lot, I'm sure you do as well. >> Rachel: Yeah. >> When those accidents happened, I'm sure everybody, including myself, was checking, what plane is this? >> Rachel: Yeah. >> Because when you know, especially once data starts being revealed, that demonstrated pilots, test pilots, were clearly saying something isn't right here, why do you think a company like Boeing isn't coming out and addressing that head on from an integrity perspective? Do you think that could go a long way in helping their brand reputation? >> I never, I mean I do get it, I'm married to a lawyer so I understand, legal gets involved, governance gets involved, so it's like, let's not disclose that. They're so worried about the implications. But it's this belief they can keep things hidden. It's a continual pattern, right? And that they try to show empathy, but really it comes across as some weird kind of sympathy. They don't really show humility. And so, when the CEO sits there, I have to believe he feels the pain of the human consequence of what happened. But more importantly, I have to believe it will never happen again. And again, it's not necessarily, do I trust the products Boeing creates, it's do I trust the people? Do I trust the decisions that they're making? And so it's really interesting to watch companies, Samsung, right? You can recover from a product crisis, with the phones, and they kind of go away. But it's much harder to recover from what, Boeing is a perfect example, has become a cultural crisis. >> Right, right. Talk to us about the evolution of trust. You talked about these three waves. Tell our audience about that, and what the third wave is and why we're in it, benefits? And also things to be aware of. >> Yes! (laughs) I didn't really talk about this today, because it's all about inspiration. So just to give you a sense, the way I think about trust is three chapters of human history. So the first one is called local trust; all running around villages and communities. I knew you, I knew your sister, I knew whoever was in that village. And it was largely based on reputation. So, I borrowed money from someone I knew, I went to the baker. Now this type of trust, it was actually phenomenally effective, but we couldn't scale it. So when we wanted to trade globally, the Industrial Revolution, moving to cities, we invented what I call institutional trust. And that's everything from financial systems to insurance products, all these mechanisms that allow trust to flow on a different level. Now what's happening today, it's not those two things are going away and they're not important; they are. It's that what technology inherently does, particularly networks, marketplaces, and platforms, is it takes this trust that used to be very hierarchical and linear, we used to look up to the CEO, we used to look up to the expert, and it distributes it around networks and platforms. So you can see that at Coupa, right? And this is amazing because it can unlock value, it can create marketplaces. It can change the way we share, connect, collaborate. But I think what's happened is that, sort of the idealism around this and the empowerment is slightly tinged, in a healthy way, realizing a lot can go wrong. So distributed trust doesn't necessarily mean distributed responsibility. My biggest insight from observing many of these communities is that, we like the idea of empowerment, we like the idea of collaboration, and we like the idea of control, but when things go wrong, they need a center. Does that make sense? >> Lisa: Absolutely, yes. >> So, a lot of the mess that we're seeing in the world today is actually caused by distributed trust. So when I like, read a piece of information that isn't from a trusted source and I make a decision to vote for someone, just an example. And so we're trying to figure out, what is the role of the institution in this distributed world? And that's why I think things have got incredibly messy. >> It certainly has the potential for that, right? Looking at, one of the things that I also saw that you were talking about, I think it was one of your TED Talks, is reputation capital. And you said you believe that will be more powerful than credit history in the 21st century. How can people, like you and I, get, I want to say control, over our reputation, when we're doing so many transactions digitally-- >> Rachel: I know. >> And like I think you were saying in one of your talks, moving from one country to another and your credit history doesn't follow you. How can somebody really control their trust capital and creative positive power from it? >> They can't. >> They can't? Oh no! >> I don't want to disappoint you, but there's always something in a TED speech that you wish you could take out, like 10 years later, and be like, not that you got it wrong, but that there's a naivety, right? So it is working in some senses. So what is really hard is like, if I have a reputation on Airbnb, I have a reputation on Amazon, on either side of the marketplace, I feel like I own that, right? That's my value, and I should be able to aggregate that and use that to get a loan, or get a better insurance, because it's a predictor of how I behave in the future. So I don't believe credit scores are a good predictor of behavior. That is very hard to do, because the marketplaces, they believe they own the data, and they have no incentive to share the reputation. So believe me, like so many companies after, actually it was wonderful after that TED Talk, many tried to figure out how to aggregate reputation. Where I have seen it play out as an idea, and this is really very rewarding, is many entrepreneurs have taken the idea and gone to emerging markets, or situations where people have no credit history. So Tala is a really good example, which is a lending company. Insurance companies are starting to look at this. There's a company called Traity. Where they can't get a loan, they can't get a product, they can't even open a bank account because they have no traditional credit history. Everyone has a reputation somewhere, so they can tap into these networks and use that to have access to things that were previously inaccessible. So that's the application I'm more excited about versus having a trust score. >> A trust score that we would be able to then use for our own advantages, whether it's getting a job, getting a loan. >> Yeah, and then unfortunately what also happened was China, and God forbid that I in any way inspired this decision, decided they would have a national trust score. So they would take what you're buying online and what you were saying online, all these thousands of interactions, and that the government would create a trust score that would really impact your life: the schools that your children could go to, and there's a blacklist, and you know, if you jaywalk your face is projected and your score goes down. Like, this is like an episode of Black Mirror. >> It's terrifying. >> Yeah. >> There's a fine line there. Rachel, I wish we had more time, because we could keep going on and on and on. But I want to thank you-- >> A pleasure. >> For coming right from the keynote stage to our set; it was a pleasure to meet you. >> On that dark note. >> Yes! (laughing) For Rachel Botsman, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE from Coupa Insp!re London '19. Thanks for watching. (digital music)

>>From Miami beach, Florida. It's the queue covering a Chronis global cyber summit 2019. Brought to you by Acronis. >>Okay. Welcome back. Everyone's cubes coverage here and the Kronos is global cyber summit 2019 and Sarah inaugural event around cyber protection. I'm John Forrey hosted the cube. We're talking to all the thought leaders, experts talking about the platforms. We've got a great guest here, security analyst, author and Ted speaker. Karen Ellis, Zari who runs the besides Tel Aviv. Um, she gave a keynote here. Welcome to the queue. Thanks for coming on. >>Oh, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. >>Love to have you on. Security obviously is hot. You've been on that wave. Even talking a lot about it. You had talked here and opposed the conference. But for us, before we get into that, I want to get in and explore what you've been doing that besides Tel Aviv, this is the global community that would be runs a cyber week. He wrote a big thing there. >>So that's something that's really important to me. So 10 years ago, hackers and security researchers thing start that somebody called security besides which was an alternative community event for hackers that couldn't find their voice in their space. In the more mainstream events like RSA conference or black hat for example. That's when security besides was born 10 years ago. Now it's a global movement and there's been more than a hundred besides events. Just this year alone, just in 2019 anywhere from Sao Paolo to Cairo, Mexico city, Athens, Colorado, Zurich, London, and in my hometown of Tel Aviv. I was very proud to bring the besides idea and the concept to Tel Aviv five years ago. This year, 2020 will be our fifth year and we'll be, I hope our biggest year yet last summer we had more than 1200 participants. We take place during something called Telaviv cyber week, which if you've never visited Tel Aviv, that's your opportunity next year of Bellevue cyber Wade brings 9,000 people to Israel. >>It's hosted by Tel Aviv university where I'm also a researcher and all of these events are free. They're in English, they are welcoming to people from all sorts of places in all walks of life. We bring people from more than 70 countries and I think it's great that we can have that platform in Israel, in Tel Aviv to share not just our knowledge but also our points of view, our different opinions about the future of cyber security. Tel Aviv university. Yeah. So Tel Aviv university hosts me cyber week and they're also the gracious hosts for the sites televi which runs as a nonprofit separate from the university. >>You know, I love these movements where you have organic, just organic growth. And then we saw that with the unconference wave couple years ago where you know, the fancy conferences got too stuffy to sponsor oriented, right? That's >>right. Yeah. Up there too. They want to have more face to face, more community oriented conversations, more or, yeah. So besides actually the first one was absolutely an unconference and to this day we maintain some of that vibe, that important community aspect of providing a stage for people that really may not have the opportunity to speak at Blackhat or here or there. They may not feel comfortable on a huge with all those lights on them. So we really need to have that community aspect of them and believe it or not. And unconference is how I got on the Ted stage because a producer from Ted actually came all the way to Israel to an unconference in the Northern city of Nazareth in Israel, and she was sitting in the room while I was giving a talk to 15 people in the lobby of a hotel. And it wasn't that, it wasn't, you know, I didn't have a big projector. >>It wasn't a fancy production on any scale, but that's where that took for loser found me and my perspective and decided that this was this sort of point of view deserves to have a bigger stage. Now with digital technologies, the lobby conference, we call it the lobby copy, cons, actions in the hallway, just always kind of cause do you have a programs? It's not about learning anymore at these events because if all you can learn online, it's a face to face communal activity. I think it's a difference between people talking at you. Two people talking with you and that's why I'm very happy to give talks and I'm here focused on sharing my point of view. But I also want to focus on having conversations with people and that's what I've been doing this morning, sharing my points of view, teaching people about how I think the security worlds could look like, learning from them, listening to them. >>And it's really about creating that sort of an atmosphere and there's a lot of tension right now in the security space. I want to get your thoughts on this because you know, I have my personal passion is I really believe that communities is where the action is in a lot of problems can be solved if tapped properly, if they want, if they're not used or if they're, if the collective intelligence of a community can be harnessed. Yes, absolutely. Purity community right now has a imperative mandate, which is there's a lot of to do better. I think good that could be happening. The adversaries are at scale. You seeing, um, you know, zero day out there yet digital warfare going on, you got all kinds of things on a national global scale happening and people are worried. Absolutely. So there's directions, there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of panic going on these days. >>If you're an average individual, you hear about cybersecurity, you're of all hackers, you're thinking, Oh my God, they should turn all of my devices off, go live in the woods with some sheep and that's going to be my future. Otherwise I'm a twist and I agree with you. It's the responsibility, all the security industry and the security community to come together and also harness the power and the potential of the many friendly hackers out there. Friendly hackers such as myself, security researchers and not all security researchers are working in a lab at the university or in the big company and they might want to, you know, be wherever they are in the world, but still contributing. This is why I talk about the hackers immune system, how hackers can actually contribute to an immune system helping us identify vulnerabilities and fix them. And in many cases I found that it's not just a friendly hackers, even the unfriendly ones, even the criminals have a lot to teach us and we can actually not afford not to pay attention, not to be really more immersed, more closely connected with what is happening in the hacker's world, whether it's criminal hackers underground or the friendly hackers who get together at community events, who share their work, who participate on bug bounty platforms, which is a big part of my personal work and my passion bug bounty programs for the viewers who are not familiar with it are frameworks that will help companies that you might rely on like Google or Facebook, United airlines or Starbucks or any company that you can imagine. >>So many big companies now have bug bounty programs in place, allowing them to actively reward individual hackers that are identifying vulnerabilities. Yeah. And they pay him a lot of money to up to millions of dollars. Yes, they do, but it's not just about the money, you know, don't, it's not just amount of money. There's all kinds of other rewards that place as well. Whether it's a fancy, you know, a tee shirt or a sticker, or in the case of Tesla for example, they give out challenge coins, the challenge coins that only go out to the top hackers. I've worked with them now you can't find anything with these challenge coins. You keep the tray, you can trade them in in the store for money. But what you can do is that you get a lot of reputational and you know, unmonitored value out of that as well. Additionally, you know another organization that's called them, the Pentagon has a similar program, so depending on his giving out, not just monetary rewards but challenge coins for hackers that are working with them. >>This reputation kind of system is really cutting edge and I think that's a great point. I personally believe that that will be a big movement in all community behavior because when you start getting into having people arbitrator who's reputable, that's an incentive beyond money. Well, what I've found great I guess, but like reputation also is important. I can tell you this because I've, I've this, I've really dissected and researched this in my academic work and the look at the data from several bug bounty programs and the data that was available. There's all kinds of value on the table. Some of the value is money and you get paid. And you know, last month I heard about the first bug bounty millionaire and he's a guy from Argentina. But the value is not just in the money, it's also reputational value. It's also work value. So some hackers, some security researchers just want to build up their resume and then they get job offers and they start working for companies that may have never looked at them before because they're not graduates of this and that school didn't have this or that upbringing. >>We have to remember that from, from the global perspective, not everybody has access to, you know, the American school system or the Israeli school system. They can't just sign up for a college degree in cybersecurity or engineering if they live in parts of the world where that's not accessible to them. But through being a researcher on the bug bounty platform, they gain up their experience, they gain up their knowhow, and then companies want to work with them and want to hire them. So that's contributing to the, you've seen this really? Yeah. We've seen this and the reports are showing this. The data is showing this, all of the bug bounty programs that ha have reports that come out that show this information as well. Do you see that the hackers on bug bounty pack platforms that usually under 30 a lot of them are. They're 30 they're young people. >>They're making their way into this industry. Now, let me tell you something. When I was growing up in Israel, that was a young hacker. I didn't know any bug bounty programs. None of that stuff was around. Granted, we also didn't have a cyber crime law, so anything I did wasn't officially illegal because we didn't have, yeah, it wouldn't necessarily. Fermentation is good. It certainly was and I was very driven by curiosity, but the point I'm trying to make is that I didn't actually have a legal, legitimate alternative to, you know, the type of hacking that I was doing. There wasn't any other option for me until it was time for me to serve in the Israeli military, which is where I really got my chops. But for people living in parts of the world where they don't have any legitimate legal way to work in cybersecurity, previously, they would have turned to criminal activities to using their knowhow to make money as a cybercriminal. >>Now that alternative of being part of a global immune system is available to them on a legitimate legal pathway, and that's really important for our workforce as well. A lot of people will tell you that cybersecurity workforce needs all the help it can get. There's a shortage of talent gap. A lot of people talk about the talent gap. I believe a big part of the solution is going to come from all of these hackers all over the world that are now accessing the legitimate legal world of cybersecurity or something. I want to amplify that. Certainly after this interview, I'd love to follow up with you. Really, we will come to Tel Aviv. It's on our list for the cube stuff. We'll be there. We'd love to launch loving mutation. What you're talking about is an unforeseen democratization, the positive impact of the world. I want you to just take a minute to explain how this all came together for this. >>With your view on this reputational thing. I talk about the impact. Where does it go beyond just reputational for jobs? What? How does a community flex and organically grow from this and so one thing that I'm very happy to see, I think in the past couple of years, the reputations generally of hackers have become important and that the concept of a hacker is not what we used to think about in the past where we would automatically go to somebody who was a criminal or a bad guy. Did you know that the girl Scouts organization, the U S girl Scouts are now teaching girls Scouts to be hackers. They're teaching them cybersecurity skills. Arguably, I would claim this is a more important skill than making cookies or you know, selling cookies. Certainly a more money to survive in the wilderness. Why not in the digital wilderness? Yes, in a fire counter than that. >>More than that, it's about service. So the girl Scouts organization's always been very dedicated to values of service. Imagine these girls, they're now becoming very knowledgeable about cybersecurity. They can teach their peers, their families, so they can actually help spread. The more you build a more secure world, certainly they could probably start the fire or track a rapid in the forest or whatever it is that girl Scouts used to do that digitally too. That's called tracing. Really motivating that person. I think that's aspiring to many young women. That's very kind of, you actually have to have more voices out there. What can we do differently? What help? What can I do as a guy, as in the industry, I have two daughters. Everyone has, as I get older, I have daughters because they care now, but most men want to help. What can we do as a group? >>So I think you're absolutely right that diversity and inclusivity within the technology workforce is not a problem there. Just the underrepresented groups need to solve by. It's actually an issue for the entire group to solve. It's men or women or any underrepresented minority and overrepresented groups as well because diversity of the workforce will actually help build a more resilient, sustainable workforce and will help with that talent gap, that shortage of people of skilled employees that we mentioned. Others, a few things that you can do. I personally decided to do what I can, so I contributed to a book called women in tech at practical guide and in that book there's also a chapter for allies. So if you're a person that wants to help a woman or women in tech in your community, you are very welcome to check out the book. It's on Amazon, women in tech, a practical guide. >>I'm a contributor to that and myself. I also started a group called leading cyber ladies, which is a global meetup for women in cyber security and we have chapters on events in Israel, in New York city, in Canada, and soon I believe in United Kingdom and Silicon Valley and perhaps in your company or in your community, you could help start a similar group or maybe encourage some of the ladies that you know to start a group, help them by finding a space, creating a safe environment for them to create meetups like that by providing resources, by sponsoring events, by mentoring does a few, a lot of things. Yeah, there's a lot of things that you can do and it's certainly most important to consider that diversity in the workforce is everybody's issue with Cod. Something just one gender or one group needs to figure out how to be a big bang theory. >>You can share with three people, two people, absolutely organic growth or conditional. Yes, certainly. And as men, if you don't want to, you know, start them an event for women because that may seem disingenuous, but you can do certainly encourage the women that you find around you. In your workforce to see if they want to maybe have a meetup and if they do, what kind of help you can offer? Can you run the AB for them? Can you as sponsored lacrosse songs, whatever kind of help that you can offer to create that sort of a space. The reason we we started cyber ladies is because I didn't see enough women speaking at security events, so I wanted to fray the meet up where the women in cybersecurity could share their work network with one another and really build up also their speaking port portfolio, their speaking powers so that they can really feel more comfortable speaking and sharing their work on other events as well. >>Camaraderie there too. Yes, it very important. Thank you so much to you now, what is your, your professional and personal interests these days? What's getting you excited? So there's some of the cool things. That's a fantastic question. So one thing I'm super excited about is that I'm actually collaborating with my sister. So my sister, believe it or not is a lawyer and she's a lawyer who specializing in cyber line, intellectual property privacy, security policy work, and I'm collaborating with her to create a new book which would be a guide to the future of cybersecurity from the hacker's perspective and the lawyers perspective because we are seeing a lot of regulators, a lot of companies that are now really having to follow laws and guidelines and regulations around cybersecurity and we really want to bring these two points of view together. We've already collaborated in the past and in fact my sister has worked on the legal terms of many of the bug bounty programs that I mentioned earlier, including the Tesla program. >>So it's very exciting. I'm very proud to be able to work with my younger sister who followed me into the cyber world. I'm the hacker, she's the lawyer and we are creating something together. Dynamic duo that's going to be, I'm excited to interview her. Yeah, so in my family we call her the tour Vogue version. Can you imagine that together? It's really unstoppable. We didn't have a chance to speak together at the RSA conference earlier this year and that was really unique. Am I going to fall off on that with the book? Well, our platform is your platform. Anything we can do to help you get the word out, super exciting work that you're doing. We think cyber community will be one of the big answers to some of the challenges out there. And we need more education. Law makers and global politicians have to get more tech savvy. Yes, this is a big, everybody, it's everybody's issue. Like I said in this morning speech, everybody's on the front lines. It's not the cyber generals or you know, the hackers in the basements that are fighting. We are on that digital Battlefront and we all have to be safer together. Karen, thanks for your great insights here in energy. Bug bounties are hot. The community is growing. This is the cyber conference here that, uh, Acronis global cyber summit 2019. I'm John Barry here to be back with more coverage after this short break.

>> From Bahrain, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Public Sector Bahrain. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back, everyone, to CUBE coverage here in Bahrain for AWS Summit. Cloud computing's changing the landscape, startups, business, government, and society. We're here with a special guest, His Excellency, Aymen Tawfiq Almoayed. Thank you very much, thanks for coming, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> And of course Max Peterson, Vice President of International Sales, Worldwide Public Sector for Amazon Web Services. >> Good to be here, John. >> Your Excellency, this program you're doing with Amazon, this MOU you've signed is interesting, I want to unpack it, because it speaks to the bigger picture of how the region is shaped by its generational shift of cloud computing and the people here. This is a really big part of this modernization plan. >> No question, no question. So the program that the government adopted, so Vision 2030, which was adopted a while ago, is based on one premise, one key premise. That the government is going to move from operator to regulator, and our focus would be to focus on and establish, create almost, an open, just, competitive environment. So the idea is for us to provide the platform and then allow the meritocratic system to let those that can aspire to opportunities and reach these opportunities come up through the system. So this program really sets the stage to get a new level going. >> Explain the difference with this program and why it's different than some of the things we've been hearing. We saw a cloud computing degree coming out of the University of Bahrain. We're seeing a lot of job skill training. This is different, this is a unique thing. Can you give a more detail around how it works. >> So, what we're doing is we're looking at very quick wins. And for us, six months, for somebody to spend six months, one year, in Amazon is a very quick win. This is not an extended degree. What this is is it's an opportunity to interact with the best of the best in their world sector. And to, honestly it's almost like a reset, where what Max and I were talking about earlier is somebody that spends a year with Amazon, I think that something happens to the pulse rate, right. So your pulse literally starts to beat much faster. >> Max knows all about that. >> Exactly, exactly. We hear about their traveling patterns, and that in itself is amazing. So in any case, so the reason it's different from a degree is it gives you real-life vocational experience. It gives you the networking opportunity. It gives you the lifestyle exposure. And then it gives you the shortcuts in organization. >> So you're exposing them to the excellence of what a culture looks like, Amazon in this case. They're hard-charging, they're fast. Anyone who's worked with Amazon knows that they move pretty quickly. But they're disciplined. It's a world-class organization. It's like a sports team being promoted to varsity or the pro team. Work their way up from the entry-level. >> So maybe the difference as well is, in this sort of program it's sink or swim. It's really as simple as that. I mean, you need to hit the ground running and take off. Maybe with a degree, it's much less so. With a degree, you go through your first year, your second year, your sophomore and so on. So what we do, what we want, is we want our youth to hit the ground running. We want very quick wins and I have no doubt that once the first trench, first team goes out to Amazon, comes back, I'm sure that the ripple effect that you see in industry and you see in the marketplace will be tremendous. >> Max, what's your take on this? 'Cause obviously you're on the Amazon side. You're taking them in Amazon Web Services here in Bahrain, or is it outside corporate headquarters in Seattle? Is there a definition around? >> All good questions. First, we're excited to be the first company that is partnered with the Ministry on this effort. We're sure many others are going to join, but we're excited to be first. I think what makes it different is the aspect of experiential. There's a lot of experiential learning that's going on different than the academic learning. Equally or maybe even more necessary is the sort of organizational cultural learning. Just what does it take to operate at world scale or at pace. And then to be able to bring that back to the region. We'll do that wherever we've got the right mix of skills. So it could be in Bahrain, where we've got a big office now, it could be in London, could be Washington, D.C., could be Seattle. >> Your Excellency, we always talk about on theCUBE over the years, tech athletes. Because, you know, to be an athlete, you got to have durability, intelligence, stability. Being a tech athlete, the travel schedules, we were just joking last night about it, you mentioned it. But also the intelligence and the integrity to do this at this speed. So this is kind of, I love the theme, so I want you to elaborate why this connects in with your vision and how did this idea get started, what was the origination around this effort? >> So initially the, again, if one takes a step back, we started experimenting about a year ago, a year and a half ago with the sports sector. So what we were doing with the sports sector, because it was a much smaller sector. What we're trying to experiment there is, if you were to allow our athletes to interact with the best in class, what would happen? Would they live up to that experience or not? And so one of the segments that we were looking at is, for example, triathlons. So about two years ago, this sport, triathlons in general, just simply didn't exist in the region. So two, maximum three years ago, they just, they were nonexistent. So His Highness had ordered that we go ahead and see if we can develop this and see if we can develop the athletes for it. And so what we needed to do, essentially, was pick some-- >> Find the athletes. (laughs) >> Is find the athletes, exactly. Send them out, we did a few triathlons. They did Kuna and Florida, came back, loved it, the addiction and the adrenaline kicked in, and then we started arranging duathlons and then triathletes here in Bahrain. Of course, I don't know if you know this, a year, fast forward, a year and a half later, and BE13, which is our triathlon team, is number one in the world. Simply it's number one in the world. Now we're doing this, we tried this with biking. So we sent a team to the Tour de France, and we started to do exactly the same thing. We were aspiring to look at greats like Sky team and the rest, and just learning from them, imitate, and then innovate, and-- >> One, if you have to have the talent to begin with, your theory is put 'em in, let 'em see it, and they'll either level up or they won't. It's self selection. >> Absolutely, no question. >> And you want to bring that formula to tech. >> It's pure meritocratic sink or swim. So we've got, so there's two, there's two phrases that we live by, all right. Number one, our role is open, competitive, just environment. That's it, all right. The number two is we open doors with no hand-holding. Simply no hand-holding, but we'll get you the opportunity. But if Amazon calls us and says participant number 606 or whatever isn't up to the cut, then they're not up to the cut. And what our youth have proven to us time after time is they're always up to the cut. As long as you make that clear, they-- >> The expectation defines the experience. So if you say this is what it is, you can swim or you can sink, your choice, people will tap out, they won't even jump in. >> I like the tech athletes piece. >> Yeah, I'm loving it, absolutely. >> Well, I mean, a lot of tech athletes, it takes a lot of energy, it is like you said, you don't know what it takes to build a company, it's really hard, I mean, it's not easy. >> It is, and the thing, just like this program, the thing that was interesting about the University of Bahrain idea was they're going to try and immerse everybody, because cloud and technology now is immersed in any field. I mean, anything becomes digital. And we were talkin' earlier about e-sports, so you need a whole bunch of great tech athletes to start bringing e-sports services to the world. >> Absolutely. >> Do you see e-sports emerging? >> Yeah, no doubt. So what we did on Friday is we signed the first agreement, this is the first time that a region hosts, we're hosting BLASTPro's finals in Bahrain, this is going to be on the 13th and the 14th of December, and that's running, streaming on Twitch. So we're excited, we're excited to be doing this with the guys at BLASTPro, and we're excited to be using Amazon's infrastructure to do it. So yes, absolutely, there is amazing things to be seen in e-sports and we're excited. >> This is awesome, digital disruption, you guys have been so proactive on this. I was commenting this morning on Twitter, then stats went out about entrepreneurship in Silicon Valley in the U.S., 51% of all ventures fail. And some other ones, 4% become unicorns, but it was all about optionality, et cetera, et cetera, and entrepreneurs are about getting on the right wave and falling and trying again, and this is, you guys have been very proactive on this. >> Right, so that's exactly why we think that sports plays a big role. So the idea behind the program was simply to gamify everything. The idea behind this program, the idea behind adopting the new bankruptcy law in Bahrain, and the new reform regulations that are coming in, all we're doing is we're gamifying things. What we're simply saying is when you fall, it's OK to fall. As long as you get back up and hit the ground running once again, we're OK with that. So you'll start to hear phrases that are pretty interesting. Like I said, with the entrepreneurships, what we're looking at is unlocking levels. So we're gamifying. With education we're doing exactly the same thing, we're looking at vocational training where you get to unlock levels. So as long as people know that the name of the game is just to stay in the game, and then outpace everybody else, then we're good. >> And the funding's been fantastic. You guys have been supporting it with resources. Now that the region's up and running, Max, do you feel good about the development so far with the new region? Therese was just on earlier, she mentioned first day they turned it on, a bunch of companies were launched already. >> Besides the cannons and the confetti that shot out today at the summit, the other exciting thing's I think when we launched the region, we had over 350 different companies, many small businesses, small and medium enterprises that put their offerings into the AWS Marketplace. When it was launched, anybody in the region, anybody in Bahrain, could literally turn on 1,700 different types of software solutions at the push of a button, so I think that's big. I think we heard how 35 local companies have created migration offerings and fast-start offerings. We heard from one great entrepreneur on stage today and we heard from government about how government's operating faster than business, I think Sheikh Salman threw down a bit of a challenge to the rest of the government and state enterprises and even corporations. And then of course I think we saw the digital bank of the future from Bank ABC with their first virtual banking assistant up on stage who, by the way, lives in the cloud over Bahrain. >> Yeah, digital employee, we had a great chat about that. This speaks to the generational shift, this is something that's going to be an interesting footnote in history. The sea change around expectations, you brought this up earlier, I think this is important. The younger generation, they want the world to be at a different speed, and they don't want an intolerant blockers in their way. And so whoever can be out front on setting up the environment, whether it's society, government, citizen services, but money-making potential, banks got to operate. So this is the replatforming of society is happening. >> No question, yeah, no question. I'll give you just the, when you compare ministries, when you compare government entities, you would walk in and you'd assume the ultra-bureaucratic system is still in place where you've got to go through tiers and so on and so forth. As far as the youth at the Ministry of Youth is involved, these guys are running things with chats, we've got internal chat systems, and so there is no memo-writing process where you then have to escalate it, and then it goes to the minister's office and so on. Absolutely not. These guys are on the likes of Slack, the likes of Teams from Microsoft and so on, and that's how government is run. >> Max, email's for old people like us. >> Hey, modern digital governments are redesigning the way all this stuff works, and it doesn't, the thing that's interesting to me is it doesn't just impact these things that you would think of as tech. I thought the example of going from 130 days to 5 days for permitting approvals-- >> For building permits, sure. >> That takes out a massive amount of inefficiency from the industry, right, and it enables that very industry to then move faster, instead of government as a blocker to so many of these things, becomes an enabler. And I think it's that attitude about modernized, customer-focused or citizen-focused that is the hallmark of what folks are doing now to make a difference. >> Well, thanks for coming in and sharing the insights. Your Excellency, great to see you. I have one final question, take a minute to explain to the folks what is the Ministry of Youth and Sports Affair, what's the charter, you going to add tech athletes to the mix now that we've kind of defined that term? But take a minute to explain-- >> Tech athletes. So the vast majority of the population is under the age of 35. The ministry's mandate is to make sure that anybody within that constituency, their touchpoints are being managed in the right way. So our job, very, very simply, is to be effectively the change agent for them, number one, and number two, to protect their interests. So we're the ones that are negotiating regulations that come in, but what touchpoint really is relevant? We're negotiating new laws that impact youth when it comes to their trades, new laws that impact youth when it comes to their rights, new laws-- >> Whether it's culture or art or whatever. >> Any touchpoints, so effectively we're customer-relations for youth, or client relations for youth. So that's that from one perspective. With regards to sports, we're simply regulators. So what we're doing is we're moving from an operator model to a regulator model, and what we're trying to do is we're trying to create a sports industry. So instead of us focusing on the actual tournament itself only, we're looking at sports diplomacy, we're looking at sports industry, we're looking at human performance and things like that. So any sectors that we can catalyze to grow in Bahrain that relates in any way, shape, or form to sports, whether it was medicinal development, technological development, regulations or otherwise, that falls under Ministry of Youth and Sports. >> You're charged to look at the whole individual across all spectrums touchpoints. >> Exactly >> That's awesome. >> So we're a horizontal as opposed to a vertical. >> Your Excellency, great to have you on theCUBE, great topic, could talk about it forever. We love sports, of course, on theCUBE, we love talkin' sports, Max, you're a tech athlete. >> I'm a tech athlete, I learned that today. Brilliant. >> You go from city to city, hit a home run everywhere you go. >> I'm looking for the next league to compete in. >> Guys, thanks so much for the insights. CUBE coverage here at AWS Summit in Bahrain, I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (bright music)

(upbeat music) >> Hi everybody, welcome back to London. You're watching The Cube, and we have a special coverage here of the pre-day at AWS headquarters in London. I'm Dave Vellante and The Cube, we go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. Alastair Allen is here, the chief technical officer of Healthcare Kainos Software. It's a Belfast based company, publicly traded company. Alastair, welcome to The Cube. Great to see you, thanks for coming out. You were downstairs earlier addressing the audience, we're gonna talk about that. But first of all, tell us about Kainos. >> So Kainos, Belfast based company, formed in the late '80's a spin out of Queens University in Belfast. We've grown to now over 1300 people and we build digital technology to help people work faster, smarter and better. There's two things we do. We provide digital services, bespoke services for public and private sector organizations across the world, and we provide digital platforms for work day customers and also for healthcare organizations. >> So, when you say digital platforms. What exactly do you mean by that? Tell our audience. >> So, our digital platforms in healthcare is something that we can talk about. So platforms to enable both hospitals to digitize their workflow and also regions, so CCG's , STP's within the NHS. To bring information together using a platform and normalizing that data and making it available to clinicians and patients. >> And this is, your flagship product is called Evolve. Correct? >> Correct. >> And you're one of the sort of founders or inventors of Evolve. Tell us more about Evolve. >> So Evolve, originated just over ten years ago, our first customer was Ipswich Hospital and Ipswich had a big problem with paper, with a large medical records library and they asked us to come in and help them digitize that and make it available in an easy to view, accessible format for their clinicians. >> So tell me more about that. So you digitize it, you take all this mounds of paper and what does that do? Other than reduce the amounts of paper. Does it make it searchable? >> Yeah, we index the content, we apply metadata whenever we capture it, trying to make it accessible for clinicians. I think when you digitize paper , the one good thing paper had going for it was you could pick it up and it was tactile. So we've done a lot of work to try and make it mobile, make it accessible, make it searchable and increasingly now with some of the services that AWS provide, we're able to look at taking that even further and getting more information out of that content. >> Add some color to that. So how has the AWS cloud affected your ability to deliver these capabilities to your customers? >> Well I think, the breathe and depth of services that AWS provide, enables us to be able to innovate quickly, to use services like I've mentioned like comprehend medical. That take the heavy lifting, away from us and helps us focus on delivering better applications for our customers. >> So part of what you do, is you architected the software that's running on the cloud. Can you talk a little bit about the architecture? What you guys have built. Presumably the cloud allows you to scale. >> Alastair Allen: Yeah. >> And take advantage of more innovations. But discuss the architecture if you would. >> So, the product that I originally talked about in 2009 and about four years ago in 2015, we decided to re-platform for the cloud. And that was in response to a number of problems that we were seeing in the market. And moved to patient centered care, a drive to try and standardize care away from the variable nature that was there and also to get away from closed silos of information. And we decided at that point to create our platform natively in the cloud and using the services of Amazon web services. So we created a microservices based architecture that runs in multi-candidate cloud native way. With a AWS. That allows us to adopt disciplines like continuous delivery and cultures like DeVops. We've been able to release value quickly and often to our customers. >> So it was a total rewrite of the platform? >> Yes. So we started again from scratch and we developed that using the modern cloud services. And we've used that then for all use cases as well so we've moved beyond just settings within a hospital. And been able to take that beyond the walls of a hospital, out into the community, into primary care, mental health. And delivering solutions like that, across regions within the NHS, to join up information. Where before clinicians would simply not have had access to those. >> In a sense you're migrating your existing install base to the cloud based platform, as I presume it's a SAS based platform. Is that right? >> So, Evolve Integrated Care is a platform it's a SAS based platform. So we run it, we monitor it, we maintain it and we deliver that as a service to our customers. >> And so your existing customers now have an opportunity to migrate and how does that all work? >> Yeah, so we're talking to our existing customers, how they can leverage the cloud based platform and the breathe of different services that it provides. We very much see an opportunity for helping to digitize a hospital. So how do you optimize the flow of patients through a hospital and making sure that clinicians have access to the information. Many of customers have hundreds of applications, information spread across their estate, bringing that together and orchestrating the workflow for particular pathways or particular conditions. >> Plus they have to manage their own infrastructure, I presume. >> Absolutely, and we want to build applications quickly, they want to focus on delivering healthcare. They don't want to focus on managing ten and server rooms within their hospitals. So, our move to the cloud really came about because of our customers telling us that they're struggling to manage this infrastructure. They wanted us to take some of that burden away from them and to help them with some of their security challenges, availability challenges. Quite often their local infrastructure was not very resilient. And by moving to AWS, we were able to use native cloud services to address many of those challenges. >> So you're taking away that heavy lifting for them. AWS takes it away for you. >> Alastair Allen: Yeah. >> In a large regard as well. While your engineers can obviously program the infrastructure. But how have you seen the customers that have moved and taken advantage of this. What has it done for their business specifically? What's the impact? >> So, what I think, it frees up people within their organization to scale up in other areas to do other things. It frees up physical space as well in many cases. It takes away risks and we've all heard of some of the recent security incidents. Wanna Cry was a huge thing in the NHS not so long ago. Coming around from just simple things like not patching servers and work stations. So, by taking on that responsibility we're freeing up those hospital systems to focus on what they do best. >> How do they do that? Do they kind of retrain folks? What's that been like? I presume it wasn't frictionless but it's an opportunity for people to advance their careers. Do you have any visibility on how your customers have handled that? >> To be honest, not a huge amount. It has, I agree, there has been some friction there. It's not always an easy journey, there's a whole mindset change of what people used to do before and the types of activity that they'll do tomorrow. And it's something that our customers are still on a journey on. And so we're quite early on in that process. >> But I would say to folks in the IT community of your expertise's of managing storage arase, there's probably a better future for you if you can move up the stack and learn more about applications , data, machine intelligence. >> Absolutely, higher up the value chain and getting closer to the user, closer to the customer. >> I mean, that's where the difference is. And it's particularly in healthcare right? You try to balance the cost of healthcare, everybody's aware of the rising cost of healthcare with the patient outcomes. And technology is a way to address that problem. Isn't it? >> Absolutely, and I think never before. I think it's just a great time to work in health IT. We've now got access to some fantastic services the rise of artificial intelligence, the machine learning has never before been so available. And really having organizations such as ourselves to really solve those problems that our customers have and introduce those efficiencies and ultimately better patient outcomes. >> So how are you using the data that lives in Evolve, I presume you're looking at applying artificial intelligence and the like, talk about that. But also, how do you ensure security, privacy, etcetera? >> So, a couple things on data, I think one of the things we've done recently is the adoption of the FHIR standard within healthcare and all the data that we aggregate from the various clinical systems, we normalize that down into a single FHIR data profile and that really helps us then have a common data model that our application can use. But that's only the start, that creates the potential then to use that for secondary usage, such as publishing health data analytics and ultimately machine learning. And we're looking at a number of errors in machine learning, I think there are some ethical challenges there to be aware of and we've started with a recent examples of understanding how we can use machine learning to try and get that structured data out of the documents, that's something that we're working on with data with the AWS team at the minute, to leverage a lot of that scanned content that we have and evolve and be able to create the structured outcome. Really to make it easier for clinicians to find information within the medical record. >> So the AWS reinvent last fall, you know Sage Maker was of course buzzing. Is that something that you're looking at? >> It's something, so we haven't used it in Evolve so far but within Kainos we have an AI practice and we have a group of guys that are focused on the AI capability. Evaluating those tools, working with AWS and helping us understand how we can use that technology to solve the problems of our customers. >> Yeah, it's early days. So you talk about helping solve the problems of the customers. Summarize for us the key problems that you see machine intelligence, AI solving. >> I think there's probably different categories of how you could use it. There's the diagnostic sort of use case where you could use AI to help process imagery, to help with the diagnostic process. There's being able to add personalization to whether that be to patients or to clinicians, helping to provide insight into whatever the use case may be and all the use cases similar to that. >> Last words, so you're addressing the pre-day healthcare reform that's going on here at AWS. What's that like, what's going on downstairs, what did you tell the audience? >> Yeah, great day. So we had a group of healthcare professionals across the NHS in Ireland, very interesting group. We spoke this morning, I spoke with our customer Gloucester CC chief and we talked about the shared care record solution that we've delivered into Gloucester. So that's bringing information together for over 600,000 patients across the region and providing information in a single joined up view that was not available before. So great feedback, great interaction, lots of questions afterwards so looking forward to going back down and chatting some more to the group. >> Excellent. Hard to do that without the cloud I would imagine , accommodating all of the 600,000 customers right. >> Not possible. >> Alastair thanks so much for coming to The Cube. >> Thanks, Dave. >> Appreciate having you. Alright, thanks for watching everybody. Keep it right there, we'll be back with our next guest. You're watching The Cube from AWS headquarter in London. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to London everybody, this is Dave Vellante with The Cube, the leader in tech coverage, and we're here at AWS. We wanted to cover deeper the public sector activity. We've been covering this segment for quite some time, with the public sector summit in DC, went to Bahrain last year, and we wanted to extend that to London. We're doing a special coverage here with a number of public sector folks. Anjenesh Babu is here, he's a network manager at Oxford GLAM. Thanks very much for coming on The Cube, it's good to see you. >> Thank you.], thanks. >> GLAM, I love it. Gardens, libraries and museums, you even get the A in there, which everybody always leaves out. So tell us about Oxford GLAM. >> So we are part of the heritage collection side of the University. And I'm here representing the gardens and museums. In the divisions we've got world renown collections, which has been held for 400 years or more. It comprises of four different museums and the Oxford University Botanic Gardens and Arboretum. So in total, we're looking at five different divisions, spread across probably sixteen different sites, physical sites. And the main focus of the division is to bring out collections to the world, through digital outreach, engagement and being fun, bringing fun into the whole system. Sustainment is big, because we are basically custodians of our collections and it has to be here almost forever, in a sense. And we can only display about 1% of our collections at any one point and we've got about 8.5 million objects. So as you can imagine, the majority of that is in storage. So one way to bring this out to the wider world is to digitize them, curate them and present them, either online or in another form. So that is what we do. >> In your role as the network manager is to makes sure everything connects and works and stays up? Or maybe describe that a little more. >> So, I'm a systems architect and network manager for gardens and museums, so in my role, my primary focus is to bridge the gap between technical and the non-technical functions, within the department. And I also look after network and infrastructure sites, so there's two parts to the role, one is a BAU business as usual function where we keep the networks all going and keep the lights on, basically. The second part is bringing together designs, it's not just solving technical problems, so if I'm looking at a technical problem I step out and almost zoom out to see, what else are we looking at which could be connected, and solve the problem. For example, we could be looking at a web design solution in one part of the project, but it's not relevant just to that project. If you step out and say, we could do this in another part of the program, and we may be operating in silence and we want to breakdown those, that's part of my role as well. >> Okay, so you're technical but you also speak the language of the organization and business. We put it in quotes because you're not a business per say. Okay, so you're digitizing all these artifacts and then making them available 24/7, is that the idea? What are some of the challenges there? >> So the first challenge is only 3% of objects are actually digitized. So we have 1% on display, 3% is actually digitized, it's a huge effort, it's not just scanning or taking photographs, you've got cataloging, accessions and a whole raft of databases that goes behind. And museums historically have got their own separate database collection which is individually held different collection systems, but as public, you don't care, we don't care, we just need to look at the object. You don't want to see, that belongs to the Ashmolean Museum or the picture does. You just want to see, and see what the characteristics are. For that we are bringing together a layer, which integrates different museums, it sort of reflects what we're doing in out SIT. The museums are culturally diverse institutions and we want to keep them that way, because each has got its history, a kind of personality to it. Under the hood, the foundational architecture, systems remain the same, so we can make them modular, expandable and address the same problems. So that's how we are supporting this and making it more sustainable at the same time. >> So you have huge volume, quality is an issue because people want to see beautiful images. You got all this meta data that you're collecting, you have a classification challenge. So how are you architecting this system and what role does the Cloud play in there? >> So, in the first instance we are looking at a lot of collections were on premises in the past. We are moving as a SaaS solution at the first step. A lot of it requires cleansing of data, almost, this is the state of the images we aren't migrating, we sort of stop here let's cleanse it, create new data streams and then bring it to the Cloud. That's one option we are looking at and that is the most important one. But during all this process in the last three years with the GLAM digital program there's been huge amount of changes. To have a static sort of golden image has been really crucial. And to do that if we are going down rate of on premise and trying to build out, scale out infrastructures, it would have a huge cost. The first thing that I looked at was, explore the Cloud options and I was interested in solutions like Snowball and the Storage Gateway. Straightforward, loads up the data and it's on the Cloud, and then I can fill out the infrastructure as much as I want, because we can all rest easy, the main, day one data is in the Cloud, and it's safe, and we can start working on the rest of it. So it's almost like a transition mechanism where we start working on the data before it goes to the Cloud anyway. And I'm also looking at a Cloud clearing house, because there's a lot of data exchanges that are going to come up in the future, vendor to vendor, vendor to us and us to the public. So it sort of presents itself a kind of junction, who is going to fill the junction? I think the obvious answer is here. >> So Snowball or Gateway, basically you either Snowball or Gateway the assets into the Cloud and you decide which one to use based on the size and the cost associated with doing that, is that right? >> Yes, and convenience. I was saying this the other day at another presentation, it's addictive because it's so simple and straight forward to use, and you just go back and say it's taken me three days to transfer 30 terabytes into a Snowball appliance and on the fourth day, it appears in in my packets, so what are we missing? Nothing. Let's do it again next week. So you got the Snowball for 10 days, bring it in transfer, so it's much more straightforward than transferring it over the network, and you got to keep and eye on things. Not that it's not hard, so for example, the first workloads we transferred over to the file gateway, but there's a particular server which had problems getting things across the network, because of out dated OS on it. So we got the Snowball in and in a matter of three days the data was on the Cloud, so to effect every two weeks up on the Snowball, bring it in two weeks, in three days it goes up back on the Cloud. So there's huge, it doesn't cost us any more to keep it there, so the matter of deletions are no longer there. So just keep it on the Cloud shifting using lifecycle policies, and it's straight forward and simple. That's pretty much it. >> Well you understand physics and the fastest way to get from here to there is a truck sometimes, right? >> Well, literally it is one of the most efficient ways I've seen, and continues to be so. >> Yeah, simple in concept and it works. How much are you able to automate the end-to-end, the process that you're describing? >> At this point we have a few proof of concept of different things that we can automate, but largely because a lot of data is held across bespoke systems, so we've got 30 terabytes spread across sixteen hard disks, that's another use case in offices. We've got 22 terabytes, which I've just described, it's on a single server. We have 20 terabytes on another Windows server, so it's quite disparate, it's quite difficult to find common ground to automate it. As we move forward automation is going to come in, because we are looking at common interface like API Gateways and how they define that, and for that we are doing a lot of work with, we have been inspired a lot by the GDS API designs, and we are just calling this off and it works. That is a road we are looking at, but at the moment we don't have much in the way of automation. >> Can you talk a bit more about sustainability, you've mentioned that a couple of times, double click on that, what's the relevance, how are you achieving sustainability? Maybe you could give some examples. >> So in the past sustainability means that you buy a system and you over provision it, so you're looking for 20 terabytes over three years, lets go 50 terabytes. And something that's supposed to be here for three years gets kept going for five, and when it breaks the money comes in. So that was the kind of very brief way of sustaining things. That clearly wasn't enough, so in a way we are looking for sustainability from a new function say, we don't need to look at long-term service contracts we need to look at robust contracts, and having in place mechanisms to make sure that whatever data goes in, comes out as well. So that was the main driver and plus with the Cloud we are looking at the least model. We've got an annual expenditure set aside and that keeps it, sustainability is a lot about internal financial planning and based on skill sets. With the Cloud skill sets are really straightforward to find and we have engaged with quite a few vendors who are partnering with us, and they work with us to deliver work packages, so in a way even though we are getting there with the skills, in terms of training our team we don't need to worry about complex deployments, because we can outsource that in sprints. >> So you have shipped it from a CAPX to an OPX model, is that right? >> Yes >> So what was that like, I mean, was that life changing, was it exhilarating? >> It was exhilarating, it was phenomenally life changing, because it set up a new direction within the university, because we were the first division to go with the public Cloud and set up a contract. Again thanks to the G-Cloud 9 framework, and a brilliant account management team from AWS. So we shifted from the CAPX model to the OPX model with an understanding that all this would be considered as a leased service. In the past you would buy an asset, it depreciates, it's no longer the case, this is a leased model. The data belongs to us and it's straight forward. >> Amazon continues to innovate and you take advantage of those innovations, prices come down. How about performance in the cloud, what are you seeing there relative to your past experiences? >> I wouldn't say it's any different, perhaps slightly better, because the new SDS got the benefit of super fast bandwidth to the internet, so we've got 20 gigs as a whole and we use about 2 gigs at the moment, we had 10 gig. We had to downgrade it because, we didn't use that much. So from a bandwidth perspective that was the main thing. And a performance perspective what goes in the Cloud you frankly find no different, perhaps if anything they are probably better. >> Talk about security for a moment, how early on in the Cloud people were concerned about security, it seems to have attenuated, but security in the Cloud is different, is it not, and so talk about your security journey and what's your impression and share with our audience what you've learned. >> So we've had similar challenges with security, from security I would say there's two pots, one's the contractual security and one is the technical security. The contractual security, if we had spun up our own separate legal agreement with AWS or any other Cloud vendor, it would have taken us ages, but again we went to the digital marketplace, used the G-Cloud 9 framework and it was no brainer. Within a week we had things turned around, and we were actually the first institution to go live with and account with AWS. That is the taken care of. SDS is a third party security assessment template, which we require all our vendors to sign. As soon as we went through that it far exceeds what the SDS requires, and it's just a tick box exercise. And things like data encryption at rest, in transit it actually makes it more secure than what we are running on premise. So in a way technically it's far more secure than what we could ever have achieved that's on premise, and it's all taken care of, straight forward. >> So you've a small fraction of your artifacts today that are digitized. What's the vision, where do you want to take this? >> We're looking at, I'm speaking on behalf of gardens, this is not me, per say, I'm speaking on behalf of my team, basically we are looking at a huge amount of digitization. The collection should be democratized, that's the whole aspect, bringing it out to the people and perhaps making them curators in some form. We may not be the experts for a massive collection from say North America or the Middle East, there are people who are better than us. So we give them the freedom to make sure they can curate it in a secure, scalable manner and that's where the Cloud comes in. And we backend it using authentication that works with us, logs that works with us and roll-back mechanisms that works with us. So that's were we are looking at in the next few years. >> How would you do this without the Cloud? >> Oh. If you're doing it without the Cloud-- >> Could you do it? >> Yes, but we would be wholly and solely dependent on the University network, the University infrastructure and a single point. So when you're looking at the bandwidth it's shared by students using it network out of the university and our collection visitors coming into the university. And the whole thing, the DS infrastructure, everything's inside the university. It's not bad in its present state but we need to look at a global audience, how do you scale it out, how do you balance it? And that's what we're looking at and it would've been almost impossible to meet the goals that we have, and the aspirations, and not to mention the cost. >> Okay so you're going to be at the summit, the Excel Center tomorrow right? What are you looking forward to there for us from a customer standpoint? >> I'm looking at service management, because a lot of our work, we've got a fantastic service desk and a fantastic team. So a lot of that is looking at service management, how to deliver effectively. As you rightly say Amazon is huge on innovation and things keep changing constantly so we need to keep track of how we deliver services, how do we make ourselves more nimble and more agile to deliver the services and add value. If you look at the OS stack, that's my favorite example, so you look at the OS stack you've got seven layers going up from physical then all the way to the application. You can almost read an organization in a similar way, so you got a physical level where you've got cabling and all the way to the people and presentation layer. So right now what we are doing is we are making sure we are focusing on the top level, focusing on the strategies, creating strategies, delivering that, rather than looking out for things that break. Looking out for things that operationally perhaps add value in another place. So that's where we would like to go. >> Anjenesh, thanks so much for coming on The Cube. >> Thank you >> It was a pleasure to have you. All right and thank you for watching, keep right there we'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching The Cube, from London at Amazon HQ, I call it HQ, we're here. Right back. (upbeat music)

(energetic music) >> From New York City, it's The Cube! Covering Automation Anywhere Imagine, brought to you by Automation Anywhere. >> Hey welcome back, Jeff Rick here with The Cube, we're in midtown Manhattan at Automation Anywhere Imagine 2019, we were here last year for the first time, we're really excited to be back. Since we were here, I think they raised like 550 million dollars, the RPA space is going bananas, and it's a really exciting place to be, both for the company and also for us at Cube, so we're excited to be back, and we got a return visit from last year, she's Neeti Metha, she's the co-founder, we always love to get co-founders, SVP brand strategy and culture, welcome back. >> Good to see you again, Jeff. >> Absolutely. So, first off, congratulations, I mean what a move you guys have made in only one short year. >> Thank you. The space is really taking off, and we are very excited to see the growth. >> So, excited to talk about the technology all day long but you're getting involved in some of the little higher-level discussions which are really really important, we see it in AI, and these are the conversations, I think, are much more important and that's about ethics, and how are these tools being used, what do people need to think about when they're using their tools, we don't just want to qualify bad behavior or bad bias' or bad ways of doing things in the past, that doesn't help so, what are you thinking about, how are you helping customers, what are some of the things they should be thinking about in this space? >> So, two things, one is, I think, society unfortunately has had a lot of unconscious bias in a lot of different ways, you know, it may not be intentional, it may be something that is inherent in the way we behave as a society or a community, or a race, religion, as a gender, it doesn't matter, and somehow, when we do AI and machine learning and we are training these bots, when we feed all this data to them, there are two things that AI helps us with. One is, we get to see it outside-in, so we are looking at it as how the data is looked upon by the machine, and these bias' become a little bit more obvious to us than otherwise, and then two, we can actually take that as a learning point and fix those biases so that we are not always targeting the most populous religion or the most populous race, or the most populous gender at that point, but we are looking at it absolutely gender-neutral, or race-neutral or religion-neutral and so forth, so AI really helps in those two things, one is it allows you to see it and identify it, and two, it allows you to rectify it as you're training these bots to make certain decisions using the analysis and the data that they have at their disposal. >> I'm curious how the outside-in exposes it 'cause for a lot of people, they don't see it, right, that's why the Terma Conch is bias so, is it in the documentation that you maybe never really had to write it down, what are some of the things that suddenly surfaced that, Oh, I didn't really realize we were doing that." >> So two things, one, again, in that sense, the data that we had, there was a lot of data, so having AI and machine learning actually helps us digitize that data and that means that we have a lot more data that can be analyzed, first of all, which was not possible before, and second, we can actually look at that data and cut in and dice it in any way we want to to kind of see these biases a little bit more. When you couldn't have digitized data, then how are you going to have one human brain, for example, look at all the data that was not digitized and analyze it without the digitization, and then actually find analyses around that or find biases around that? So it really does help to digitize that data and, for example, Automation Anywhere's IQ bot helps you digitize dark data or hidden data, and covert it to digitized data and then you can analyze it and do things with that data that you could never before. >> Okay, great. So, one of the things that came up in your great keynote this morning, lot of stuff, I could go on for probably 2 hours, but one of them is really re-thinking this concept of what a bot is, is it digital assistant, or even a digital employee? And thinking of it, not as something that's going to replace what I do per se, but it's just another tool in my toolbox, just like I have a laptop, I have a mobile phone, I have sales force, I have all these other systems, and really thinking of it more that way to offload some of this mundane, soul-crushing work that unfortunately takes up way too much of all of our time. Very different approach than, "This is a substitute for what I do now." >> Technology is always a human enabler, and this is extremely important. So the RPA and the digital workforce is something that we believe that every human who is working could leverage and enable themselves to get to that new level of creativity, that innovation, get rid of the repetitive and mundane and do things that you never could before or you could never get to because of a time perspective. And so, it's extremely important for people to utilize this to actually help themselves, their careers, their own teams, their divisions, their organizations and their societies to get to the next level. >> Right, and open up this productivity gate because, the other thing I think is really funny is, all this conversation about robots taking jobs and yet companies have thousands and thousands of open recs, they can't hire enough people, even with the technology and I'm always drawn to this great invite, we did a Google cloud a couple of years ago, where, when they were starting to scale, they realized they could not do it with people, they just couldn't hire fast enough and had to start incorporating software defined automation, or else they could never take advantage of that. We're seeing that here and that's really part of the whole story and why RPA is so exciting right now, is 'cause you're an enabler for productivity force multiplier. >> That's right and a lot of businesses have certain things that are inherent in their industries, for example, there might be a seasonality requirement, or there might be a requirement where they suddenly have a surge of customers and so forth, and in order to stock that many claims or accounts that they're opening or whatever their process is doing, in order to get that many humans onboard them, train them, at least give them a breathing space to get onboard and actually be responsive to that organization, you can help them by having bots to bridge that gap and allow them to be successful. >> Right. Another interesting stab in here, I got great notes, again it was a terrific keynote, he talked about only 4% of US jobs require a medium level of creativity and I was struck, I remember being in grade school and we watched a movie about people in an auto-manufacturing plant, just the worst kind of monotony they were doing, and this one guy used to load cars on a train and every once in a while he would just drop one on purpose or run the forklift through it just to kind of break up his day. >> Right. >> So, again, the purpose is not to replace, but to really enable people to start to use their brains and be more creative. >> It is to unleash the human potential, and that is what automation will do for it. >> Now, you guys have recently came out with some new research, or if you can give us some of the highlights on some of your new research? >> Absolutely. So, last year, we worked with the Goldsmith's University of London to see if automation, and we believe so, but we wanted to see and validate that automation actually did make work more human. So, did people actually free themselves of their repetitive and mundane and then become more creative and innovative and solve problems that they wanted to and they couldn't before? And the answer was overwhelmingly yes. So this year, we went the next step in that research, and we did a second research, a second wave of research, where we said, "What do organizations, what are the challenges organizations will face if they want to implement this automation and unleash that human potential?" and you should read the research, it's on our website, but it was very very interesting, 72% of people didn't believe that AI or machine learning or automation would be taking over their jobs, yet only 38% of them were exposed or had the opportunity to work with this. So the potential is enormous, technology has to be an organizational change, that's another thing that came out of the research, and corporations should work towards it, but I think this research was very insightful, please do look at it, I think it will be very useful to you. >> So one of the announcements too, that came out today was about the community addition, and I think that's a really interesting play, right, 'cause your introducing a freemium, so people, myself, individuals, educations, businesses, have access to your whole suite for free. I'm sure there was some interesting conversations internally to really make that leap, but it really supports your theme of the democratization of the automation which we hear over and over around data and a lot of pieces of the stack, and so obviously the bigger picture, the bigger opportunity far outweighs a couple of bucks of revenue from this small company or that small company. I wonder if you can kind of share some of the thought behind that? >> Absolutely. This was always part of the strategy, but it was part of the strategy to do it at the right time, when the technology was mature and robust enough one, but when we could actually allow and give that opportunity to every human who wanted to get rid of their repetitive and mundane, give them the opportunity to be better at what they do, to create more and innovate more, and so we are very excited about it, we've had such a great response from the market on it and the idea from the beginning, and I think we are very committed to it, and Automation Anywhere is to create opportunity for automation for everyone. >> That's great. So, last question Neeti, what are you working on in 2019, I mean I don't expect you to raise another half a billion dollars, great year from last time, what are some of your priorities though as we look at the balance of 2019? >> I think this industry is under tremendous growth, I think we are seeing a lot of results, for the customers and for employees, and so we are very very excited, I think it's a great time for the industry, it will create a lot more innovation, we'll have a lot more new things coming out this year, a lot more engagement from all over the world, and it's a super exciting time to be in this industry. >> Great. Well thanks for taking a few minutes out of your busy day and for having us back here at the show. >> Absolutely, my pleasure, Jeff. >> She's Neeti, I'm Jeff, you're watching The Cube, where Automation Anywhere Imagine 2019 in midtown Manhattan. Thanks for watching, see you next time. (energetic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Miami Beach, Florida It's theCUBE! Covering UiPathForward Americas. Brought to you by UiPath. >> Welcome back to South Beach everybody. You are watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. I'm Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman is here. This is UiPathForward Americas. UiPath does these shows all around the world and they've done, I don't know how many. But they've reached 14,000 customers this year. But Bobby Patrick knows, he's the CMO of UiPath. Bobby, great to see you again. >> It's great to be on again. >> So, how many of these events have you done in the last 12 months? >> We've probably done a dozen, all major cities. We still have Beijing and Dubai coming up. Over 14,000 people at our events alone. We go to a lot of other industry events obviously, but yeah, at our own events, every single event we break our records. We're always undersizing our events, it drives everyone nuts. >> You're always riding the wave, Bobby. You hit Cloud, right as the wave was building. How did you find this company? >> Yeah, so I was the HP of Cloud, they were, split assets off and took a little time, got a call and robotic process automation. Of course, I thought of physical robots. I look online and say wow that's interesting. I did some search terms on it and I saw RPA kind of sky rocketing in search and my background is actually in integration, data integration before Cloud. And then I met Daniel and I fell in love with Daniel and this was a year ago. I was employee 270, right? We'll have 2,000 by the end of the year. So, it's been everything I expected which was a rocket ship, has completely, constantly I've underestimated, it's amazing. >> So, you're the one who turned me onto this whole space. You sent me the Forrester Wave, >> Bobby: Right >> Where it was last year's and you guys were third this year, you leapfrogged into first. >> Bobby: Right. >> And then we said wow that's kind of cool. Let's download this and play with it. And we tried to download the other ones but we couldn't. You, know it was kind of too complicated. They wanted us to talk to resellers and, it was like, no no no. you guys were, like, really open. >> Bobby: It's part of our culture. >> And we found it super simple to use. It was, one of our guys wasn't a coder. Smart dude, but it was low code, no code type of situation. You were explaining to me at Legal Seafoods last week that you actually have written some automations. So, it's pretty simple to get started but there's a spectrum, right, and it's pretty powerful too. >> Yeah, it's an epiphany that hits everybody. This is the part where I see it, even in myself, when I realized every morning I was getting up and going to Google Trends and I was looking at us versus Automation Anywhere versus Blue Prism and we're pulling away. It's great, I'll get happy in the morning and I'll screen shot it and then I'll go to Slack and send it to the comp team. Why am I doing this? So, in 20 minutes now I have a robot everyday, every morning that does it for me. And I get a text and I get an email. We have, in marketing, a dozen of these. I've got one that does our Google Ad Words around the world. I've got one that takes all of our 30,000 inbound new contacts a month, in different languages, translates, finds out what country they are in, and routes them to the right country. These are simpler examples, but once you realize that anything you do that's routine and mundane that a robot can do for you. It brings, it makes you happy first of all, right? And you realize the vision we have for a robot for every person, its a very realistic vision and its two, three years out. >> Bobby, one on the things that has really interested me today is talking about what this means for jobs and careers. Dave and I were at Splunk earlier this week, talking about Splunkers, data is at the center of what they do and everybody comes to them, how do I leverage my data? I did operations for a bunch of my career and I'd spend lots of time with my team saying, what do you hate doing, what are you manually doing? What can you get rid of and there's a collaboration between, I hear, that your customers. It's not just oh some consultancy comes in and they cut something away and they took it away from you. Oh no wait, you're actually involved with this, it seems like an ongoing process and you're making people's jobs better. Can you talk a little about that dynamics of how this transforms a company? The vision for, I hear from UiPath, is that you're going to change the world. >> Yeah, so you have to sit in, you're talking about the future of work, or digital, you have to sit in a conference room and watch a bunch of workers sit around and I'll give you an example. At DISA, big federal government agency, federal government has lifetime workers, right? In the room, where 30 workers, who everyday download assets and then they compile them and then they analyze them. They have their best, fastest kind of human go against the UiPath robot that they automated. In 15 minutes, the human downloaded two assets or archives and the robot did 17. The entire room of 30 cheered! Cheered. No longer do we have to do that crap ever again. And this is, we see this in every industry. It's so much fun because you see just, people just radiating with excitement, right? Because, I was out with a customer today that says they can't even fulfill today with the humans they have, the 25% of the work they got. So, your robots are creating capacity, they're filling the void. You probably heard about Japan, right, and the aging population? And RPA and UiPath addressing suicide rates. This about making society better. This is about robots doing the work that we hate, right? One of our great customers, Holly Uhl from State Auto, said on stage that, you know, robots do the work nobody misses. And, I think that's trivial. Now what about job impacts, right? So, we worry everyday about what this means, right? So, we spend a lot of time on our academy, making it easier to train people, build digital era skills. We announced our academic alliance, right? We hired an amazing Chief of Learning Officer. You saw Tom Clancy. You know him and his team. We're going to train a million students in three years. You know, we're worried about the middle class. We're worried about people who are farther along in their careers and helping them re-skill. So, we take that as a part of our job as a company to figure out how to up-skill people and make them a part of this. And I'm really excited because a year ago when I joined, everybody said, the big problem you have is people going to worry about taking away jobs. I don't hear that from the 1500 customers in here today. >> Well, isn't a part of that re-skilling? Learning how to apply automation, maybe even learning how to apply RPA? Maybe even doing some automation? >> Yeah, so obviously there is-- World Economic Forum came out two weeks ago with a study that said, automation will add net 60 million jobs, I think that was for the people that losses, it will two x gains in jobs. Now those are different jobs in some cases. Some of those jobs are digital era skills, some of those jobs are AI, data science. So, I think that there's... But there are some cubicle jobs that will be affected, right? There are some swivel chair jobs that will be affected, but no different than when they automated toll booths, right? Or automated different parts of mundane work that we've all seen throughout our lives, right? So I think the speed at which this is happening is what worries people. Unlike, in the past, it took a little longer for automation or industrialization to impact jobs. But we're focused on this, right? We're going to put money towards this and we're just not seeing that today. Maybe it's because the economy is doing so great. People have a workforce shortage, but we're just not hearing it. >> Well, I mean, maybe a number of factors. I mean, there's no question, machines have always replaced humans. This is the first time in history of replacing humans in cognitive functions. >> Bobby: Augmenting >> Yes, absolutely, but It does suggest that there's opportunities for whether it's for education, you guys are investing there, training, and re-skilling whether it's around creativity and that's really where the discussion, in our view anyway, should be. Not about, okay lets protect our future, the past from the future. You don't want to just repave the cow path and use another bromide. You got to move forward and education is a key part of that. And you guys are putting your money where your mouth is. >> Yeah, we are and I think our academy that we launched a little over a year and a half ago has a quarter of a million people in it. They are already diplomas on LinkedIn. I watch everyday, people post their new diplomas, the different skills they've earned, right? Go through the courses, it's free. Democratization runs at the heart of this company, it's why we're growing so much faster than at automation anywhere, right? It's why we are a different kind of company. They're a very commercial minded kind of company. They're a marketplace, you have to be a customer. If your URL when you type in your email isn't a customer, you can't go to their store and do anything. We're free, open, share your automations and it's a very different mindset and community runs at our heart. If you're a small business, you know, under a million dollars, you get to use our software for free. And you can run your robots and we have one of our orchestrators run a manager. So, I think all of this is helping get companies and people more comfortable with our technology. There are kids and students now, we had University of Maryland up here. The professor, he's building whole classes now at the University of Maryland. All in the business school, all using our technology. Every student should have a robot, through their entire career, through their entire time at University of Maryland. That's every university, this is going to go so fast, Dave and Stu, so fast. And when I think back again, a year ago, I mean next year when we do this again, right? At our big flagship event, at three or four thousand people, you'll have felt that progression but the year I've been here, it's night and day already. >> Alright, so Bobby you know we're big fans of community. The open source stuff, you've for a long background in that. Help us put together some of these stats here. When I looked in your keynote, you said there's 114,000 certified RPA developers out there across the globe. 139 countries, 250,000 people have downloaded. You've only got at UiPath about 2,000 customers. So, you know, we talk business model and how your business grows, the industry grows, you know? Help us understand that dynamic. >> These are going to go exponential. So, we have large companies now that are committing to deploy UiPath to every employee. Every employee becomes a user then, so you're going to see that user number go like this. While the enterprise customer number goes like this. We're adding six new customers a day right now. The real opportunity for us is every one of our customers, very few are down their journey like an SMBC is. SMBC, RPA is in their annual reports, right? They say 500 million dollars already, right? It's a societal thing. They actually in Japan share together, to help each company. Here, in the U.S., we're a little competitive, right? Banks don't share with other banks typically, right? But, this is kind of what we're driving. It's, when you make an automation at UiPath. While we're not open source as a platform, the automation is open source. You put it on go, I can take that, you can take that. I had the same kind of problem. Put in the studio right away, modify it a bit and you're good to go. Now you've sped your implementation which is already fast by 70, 80, 90%. This is, we're just getting started. So, you're going to see companies adopting across HR, across supply chain, contact centers, you know. Today we're, for the most of our customers we're in one division. So, the opportunity to grow within a company, where we were barely 5% penetrated in our biggest client. >> And you've seen my prediction. A lot of the market forecast are under counting this space. >> Bobby: Right. >> There is a labor shortage, a skilled labor shortage There's more jobs than there are people to fill them. They don't have the right skills today. There is a productivity problem >> Bobby: Right. >> Productivity line is flat. RPA is going to become a fundamental component of digital transformations. It's about a billion dollar business today. I got it pegged at 10X by 2023. >> Craig at Forestry upped his guidance today, he may have told you all, to a 3.3 billion dollar market in 2021. Now I was a little disappointed, it was 2.9 before. I think he's still way under shooting it. But nevertheless, to grow 10% in one year, in his mind, is still pretty big. >> Yeah, a lot of those market forecasts are kind of linear. You're going to see, you know, an S curve, like growth in this market. I think there's no question about it. Just, in speaking to the customers today, we've seen this before in other major industry trends. We certainly saw it at ServiceNow, we saw it at Splunk, we saw it at Tableau. UiPath feels like a very similar vibe here. In Tenex, when we did the show here. I just feel an explosion coming, I already see it. It's palpable. >> One other reason for the explosion which is a little different than say most of the open source tech companies is that they were in IT sales. You don't have to use code to automate your tasks, right? The best developers for us are actually the subject matter experts in finance, in supply chain, in HR. So suddenly we've empowered them. Because IT everywhere is constrained, right? They're dealing with keeping systems current. So suddenly this these tools of software is available to any employee to go learn and automate what they do. The friction we've removed between business have to go to IT, IT be understaffed, IT have to get the requirements. All that's gone! So you create robots overnight, over the weekend. And make your life better. Again, most of the world still does not understand what's going on. I mean you can feel it now. But it's an epiphany for anyone when they see it. >> Well the open mindset that Daniel talked about today, he said, you know our competitors are doing what we do and that's okay. The rising tide lifts all boats kind of thing. That puts pressure on you guys to stay ahead of the pack. Big part of what Tom Clancy is doing is the training piece. That's huge. Free training. So you got to move faster than the market. You're confident you can do that. What gives you confidence? >> I think, one, is our product is simpler to use. So I think, you know, you go to Automation Anywhere and you need the code, right? You don't have to code with our design tool. We're told, we're about 40% faster to implement. And that's, look at the numbers. We shared our numbers again today. 100 million we announced in July 1st, for our first half of in ARR, 140 now, right? We are telling our numbers, we're open and transparent. Our competitors, well Blue Prism is public, right? We know they're growing slower. Another difference is the market, requirements are not created equal. Blue Prism only works in an unattended robot fashion, only in the back office. So, if you have front office automation, with call centers and customer service, they don't have the concept of an attended robot. You know, this idea of so, they lack the ability to serve all the requirements of a customer. I, think, it's just architecturally, I think what we're seeing in terms of simplicity and openness. And then market coverage very different then either Automation Anywhere or BluePrism. >> Alright Bobby, let me poke at something. So, if I look at, you came out this morning and said accelerate everything. One of the concerns I have is say okay, if I take existing processes, a lot of the time if you look at them, they're not ideal. They were manual in nature, it's great to do that but, how much do you need to wait and revisit and get consultants in to kind of fix things rather than just say oh okay. Faster is better for some things but not necessarily for all things unless you can make some adjustments first. >> You don't want to automate a bad process, right? So, we're not encouraging anyone to do that. So, you see a combination of... One thing about RPA is which great, is you don't have to go in and say, I'm going to go do procure to pay like Traditional IT guy. And so you can go into that process and say, oh look at all these errors, these tasks, these sub processes, these tasks. Where this huge friction and you can go automate that and get huge value. >> Almost like micro services. >> Yes, exactly. You're able to go in and that's really what people are doing. On the more ambitious projects, they're saying I'm also going to go optimize my process, think differently. But the reality is, people are going in, they're finding these few parts of a bigger process, automating it, getting immediate outcomes, immediate outcomes. And paying back that entire project in six months, including the fees on extension or PWC or other. That doesn't exist anywhere in technology. That kind of, you know, speed to an outcome and then payback period. It just doesn't exist. >> Well, the fact that the SIs are here. Yeah, we heard 15 day payback today. Super fast, ROI. The fact that the big SIs are here, especially given the relatively early days says a lot about the potential market size. I always joke, those guys like to eat at the trough. This is big business and it's important for you guys because they're strategic, they're at the board level. You need the top down support, at the same time, it sounds like there's a lot of bottom up activity. >> Bobby: Right. >> And that's where the innovations going to come from. What's next for you guys, you taking this show on the road again? >> Right, so the next Forward is in London. So, we had one in Europe and one in the U.S. We do what we call togethers, which is more intimate. Or all around the world, which are country specific or industry. I mean, we're going to go and call it the Automation First Tour. And we're going to go start our next tours up all through next year. Hit all the cities again, probably three times this size, each city. You know, I looked at Washington D.C. with federal government, we started federal government in January. Federal government for us next year should be a 60 million software business. For our partners, give them 6, 8, 10X on services on top of that. That's meaningful, that's why you see them here. That same calculation exists in every vertical and in every country. And so it's good for our partners. It's great, we want them to focus on building their skills though. Getting good skills and quality. So, we do a lot with them. We host a partner Forward yesterday with 500 partners, focusing on them. Look, we are investing in you, but you got to deliver quality, right? So, I think we amplify everything we did this year because it worked for us well. We amplify it big time and Forward in a year from now, whether it's Vegas or Orlando or we'll announce it soon, willl be substantially larger. >> Well, any company that's digitally transforming is going to put RPA as part of that digital transformation. It's not without its challenges but it's a tailwind. You better hop on that wave or you going to end up driftwood as Pat Gelsinger likes to say. Bobby, thanks so much. >> Bobby: Thank you Dave. >> Thanks for having us here. This has been a fantastic experience and congratulations and good luck going forward. >> Thank you. >> Alright guys, that's a wrap from here. This is theCUBE. Check out theCUBE.net Check out SiliconeANGLE.com for all the news. Cube.net's where all the videos are, wikimon.com for all the research. We are busy Stu, we're on the road a lot. So again, look at the upcoming events. Thanks for watching everybody. We'll see you next time.