(high intensity music) >> Everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit live in Washington, D.C. Two days of wall-to-wall coverage. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. Finally, great to be in-person. We had a remote interviews. We have a hybrid event going on. We're streaming everything all over the place. Next guest is Matt Mandrgoc, who's the Head of Public Sector at Zoom. The company that everyone loves and have happy meetings, happening events. Great to see you. >> Thank you for having me today. >> So, I'll say Zoom is in the center of all the action pandemic. Everyone knows what's going on with Zoom. Household name. Company's exceptionally well on the performance side, what's going on in Public Sector? >> It's exciting. You know, over the last 18 months, we've just exploded across all the marketplace, both in federal state, local government and education. And what's exciting is we've just scratched the surface for our customers. So, if you look at what we've done in getting in front of inaugural events, courts, legislation, all kinds of other types of meetings and webinars, getting the message out around the pandemic. It's exciting to know that we have that opportunity to make a difference. Now, part of this whole thing around Public Sector, since we just scratched the surface, what's exciting is how do we start to look forward to the next 12, 24, 36 months in helping our customers? How do we really add value in accelerating that mission value for them? >> You know, Matt, it's interesting. There's two things that happened during the pandemic that I point to and I talk about all the time. The internet didn't break. So, all those service providers that had the pipes, good job, packets from moving around, And Zoom, you guys really saved society and educate, so many use this. Education, government, meetings, courtrooms, I never thought about the speeding tickets. People have to go free Zoom. All this stuff's happening. Now, you've got a partnership with AWS. What's the next level? I'm assuming more immersion, more connections, more integration. What's the next? What's the plan? >> Great question. So, our next step is we looked at this relationship and we were going to customers and go in there, we go in there and then they go in there. There's wasn't any synergy. So, what we decided to do is come together. So, think about this, Zoom and AWS going into our public sector customers, bringing solutions and helping them evolve, innovate, and transform. As they're evolving through this people-centric hybrid network or workplace journey that they're going through. And then the best part about this is these ecosystem of partners that help both of us, and be a part of that process as well. >> Not to toot your own horn, but we just had a remote interview on Zoom connected to our gear here. Here with a guest sitting right here, just now, that's the kind of impact. How is that transformed some of the government agencies, like military for instance? >> Great question. So, we had, one of the things that the, even back in April 2020, the Air force was recognized by military.com for recruiting and how they use to keep their numbers up, to get in front of recruits. And think about this, if I'm a recruiter, I can't drive three hours to go see somebody, find out if they can join or not and come back. Now they could use Zoom, something that people were comfortable with. Ease of use, simple, ingrained in the fabric of people's lives. Now they could have that, keeping their numbers up and being recognized by a two star general for what they did around the recruiting and keeping the numbers up. >> All right. So I'll ask you cause I know you have a federal background with one. You know the industry pretty well, over the years you've stunned. You've seen the old way now, the new way, what's it like at Zoom? Because you guys exploded onto the scene. Been around for a while, but once you hit the tipping point, it was a rocket ship plus the pandemic. Now you come into federal. You've got FedRAMP issues, what do you do? How do you get through all that? >> We were excited about the fact that we're really catapulted us. We were at FedRAMP Impact Level 2, Moderate back in April of 2019. So, what set the groundwork? So when the pandemic occurred, we were able to explode forward, help our customers. Now, we've even looked past that and go, "What do we do next?" DOD Impact Level 4. We have an authorization to operate with conditions from the Department of the Air Force. And it was set as we go through our provisional process with DISA. The exciting part is, our customers can use this. Now, they have a set of conditions. Those conditions are basically guidelines of how to use and set up an IL-4 call. >> So, just Impact Level 4 is just below top secret if I understand that correct, right? >> So, Impact Level 4 allows our customers and the DOD to use it for a CUI, which is Controlled Unclassified Information or FOUO, For Official Use only conversations. >> Got it. And there's six levels, right? >> Yes. >> Five, six is like the ultimate, like- >> yes. >> super top secret, secret. >> Yes. >> Okay, cool. All right. So four is good? >> It's very good. >> So this is interesting, in 2019, you've mentioned that stuff. That kind of highlights the whole Cloud way before the pandemic. The winners and losers tend to see who was winning and who's losing. And I think a lot of agencies realize the ones that were in the cloud early before the pandemic and the ones that didn't get there fast enough are really lagging behind. What's your reaction to that? >> Well, you're absolutely right. And the interesting thing about the pandemic, what it brought forth is a horrible event, but what it brought forth was transformation that customers had to go through. So think of it this way. If a customer, you know, they were at all this equipment sitting on staff, on site and they had to go home. And all of a sudden when they went home, legacy systems could not transform and allow them to evolve into this work from home environment. So, what it brought forth of these systems that were just not capable of being able to scale. And all of a sudden, as they went forward, they were able to go ahead and us. For us, it was easy because ease of use, scalability, innovation, extensibility and security, allowed us to really jump right in there. And as people I mentioned earlier, it became ingrained in the fabric of people's lives. So, the ease of use for everybody made it easy for them to move home. >> Yeah. And that's a big impact. All right. Let me ask about the Amazon Marketplace, AWS Marketplace. News there? Share. >> Yeah. We're excited we announced over the last two days, we've announced our relationship with AWS, and the AWS Marketplace via Kairosoft. So, Kairosoft is a world-class public sector distributor. The great relationship we have there that help us really accelerate this relationship was Amazon already had that AWS Marketplace distributor. We had Kairosoft as our main distributor for all Public Sector, solar suburb. So, the relationship already there and with the integration with Tackle.io, allowed us to really accelerate this relationship and be able to transact for our customers. And you think about the transaction, now our customers can start to leverage AWS contracts and accelerate the pieces that they have across there. >> Talk about the Tackle.io piece, how does that fit in? Cause you've got Kairosoft, Distributor, Zoom, what's Tackle do? They integrate? >> Tackle was just the integration piece allowed us to get these transactions going for back and forth. So, the transaction you think about, a customer will buy through AWS contract. They'll get transacted through the AWS Marketplace at Kairosoft, and it come to Zoom from there. Tackle.io was just the integration piece allowed that to happen. >> Yeah. And just a plug for Tackle.io. Those guys are start-up that's growing really fast. They make it easy. The Marketplace is not that easy. (laughs) Dave McCain would argue with me, but yeah, it's can be unwieldy, but they manage it and make it easier. >> Matt: Well, if you think about typically, if you had direct integration, it would take you many months to get through that process and a lot of times. This helped us, with the Marketplace being at Kairosoft, and Tackle.io, allowed us to really accelerate this relationship. >> I mean, that's a consumption model in the future. I mean, you're looking at, from a Zoom standpoint, you look at the marketplace, that's just more distribution. That's a selling vehicle for you, right? >> Exactly. But it's also, you think, but it's selling people for us. But you think about it from the customer side. If they have a contract already in place and they have consumption, you know, minimums they have to hit and they can be a part of the solution set now that we come together. It really becomes that, "Hey yeah, it's easy to use as a great way." But now we're giving, as we mentioned earlier, an acceleration point for our customers to drive that innovation and quickly procure it. >> Now, you've been around the block on Public Sector. You've seen the waves of innovation over the years. Now, it's kind of like the perfect storm. Multiple waves colliding into a big wave with cloud and with the new normal that's coming. From telemedicine to education, to military, to top secret, to distribution via marketplaces cloud scale, where there's now a new stack emerging, horizontal and vertical. What is your take on that as a industry participant? You're like, "We're putting perspective." Like how big is this compared to what was once other waves? >> Well, you know, what the pandemic brought forth was, as Max mentioned earlier today in his keynote, it really accelerated transformation of people how to do it, which would may take three to five years. Took weeks and months. Now we have the opportunity to go forward and really push this and say, "How do we transform while this pandemic happened?" People are now, the governments are, in education are now looking at transformation on how they accelerate this for the next five to seven years. Because the decisions are making, the money they're settling, and the investments they're making are transforming how they're going to do that. And they realize they cannot do it the way they did it before. >> Well, congratulations in all the success that Zoom, for you and your teammates. Eric, over there as CEO and Collin, and the rest of the team, Ross Mayfield, amongst others. We love you guys. I think you're great company. You really made a dent in the universe in a positive way. I'm looking forward to seeing what's on the roadmap. IOT devices, edge, what's happening? >> Actually, it's great timing of that because we just had our Zoomtopia. So we announced a number of different innovative things that we've done out there, white boarding and such. That really is going to come forward. So I would encourage everybody to go to the Zoom website, look at some of the videos we had from Zoomtopia. Talked about some of the actual, really cool innovative things that we've done. >> John: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, almost imagined was the camera technology, the collaboration technology, things are going to be a little bit different. It's not going to be what people think it's going to be. It might look different. What's your view on that? >> I think it's going to look different than it was a year ago. I think it's going to look different than two years from now. And so, with innovation, we look at, we have hundreds of different innovative things that occurred out there. So we look at, you know, virtual classrooms, things that they have out there to change the environment, to make that feel like it's a real life experience. And that's what makes the difference on us. >> You know, I watched companies like Facebook saying, they're going to drop 50 million into metaverse for the next two years. They're throwing engineers at it. But all it points down to is a better user experience. That's the goal, right? To make that user experience immersive, clean, elegant, simple but effective. >> Yeah. It's intuitive. It's the number one thing I hear form every single person. They want something easy to use when the send them home, they want to be able to turn it on for it to work. And we had one department, one agency has sent people home. They found the productivity was doing so well that they actually have decided to hire people in different parts of the country. It's very specialized group around, it moved the D.C. area. Now it's changed the whole scope of how you bring people in with these different skillsets, how not having a move to an area. We'll be able to leverage them at a remote location, but really embrace that expertise. >> Matt, thank you for coming on theCUBE, Matt Mandrgoc, Head of Public Sector. U.S. Public Sector for Zoom. A name you're going to keep hearing about more and more. It's not going away. Establish themselves as the leader in collaboration, certainly video meetings, conferences, events. Thanks for coming on. >> Matt: Thanks for having me on theCUBE. >> Okay. Well, more coverage from a live personal in-person event with remote Zoom's coming in as hybrid. It's theCUBE coverage of AWS Summit 2021, here in Washington, DC. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (soft music)

>> Announcer: Live from Miami Beach, Florida It's theCUBE! Covering UiPathForward Americas. Brought to you by UiPath. >> Welcome back to South Beach everybody. You are watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. I'm Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman is here. This is UiPathForward Americas. UiPath does these shows all around the world and they've done, I don't know how many. But they've reached 14,000 customers this year. But Bobby Patrick knows, he's the CMO of UiPath. Bobby, great to see you again. >> It's great to be on again. >> So, how many of these events have you done in the last 12 months? >> We've probably done a dozen, all major cities. We still have Beijing and Dubai coming up. Over 14,000 people at our events alone. We go to a lot of other industry events obviously, but yeah, at our own events, every single event we break our records. We're always undersizing our events, it drives everyone nuts. >> You're always riding the wave, Bobby. You hit Cloud, right as the wave was building. How did you find this company? >> Yeah, so I was the HP of Cloud, they were, split assets off and took a little time, got a call and robotic process automation. Of course, I thought of physical robots. I look online and say wow that's interesting. I did some search terms on it and I saw RPA kind of sky rocketing in search and my background is actually in integration, data integration before Cloud. And then I met Daniel and I fell in love with Daniel and this was a year ago. I was employee 270, right? We'll have 2,000 by the end of the year. So, it's been everything I expected which was a rocket ship, has completely, constantly I've underestimated, it's amazing. >> So, you're the one who turned me onto this whole space. You sent me the Forrester Wave, >> Bobby: Right >> Where it was last year's and you guys were third this year, you leapfrogged into first. >> Bobby: Right. >> And then we said wow that's kind of cool. Let's download this and play with it. And we tried to download the other ones but we couldn't. You, know it was kind of too complicated. They wanted us to talk to resellers and, it was like, no no no. you guys were, like, really open. >> Bobby: It's part of our culture. >> And we found it super simple to use. It was, one of our guys wasn't a coder. Smart dude, but it was low code, no code type of situation. You were explaining to me at Legal Seafoods last week that you actually have written some automations. So, it's pretty simple to get started but there's a spectrum, right, and it's pretty powerful too. >> Yeah, it's an epiphany that hits everybody. This is the part where I see it, even in myself, when I realized every morning I was getting up and going to Google Trends and I was looking at us versus Automation Anywhere versus Blue Prism and we're pulling away. It's great, I'll get happy in the morning and I'll screen shot it and then I'll go to Slack and send it to the comp team. Why am I doing this? So, in 20 minutes now I have a robot everyday, every morning that does it for me. And I get a text and I get an email. We have, in marketing, a dozen of these. I've got one that does our Google Ad Words around the world. I've got one that takes all of our 30,000 inbound new contacts a month, in different languages, translates, finds out what country they are in, and routes them to the right country. These are simpler examples, but once you realize that anything you do that's routine and mundane that a robot can do for you. It brings, it makes you happy first of all, right? And you realize the vision we have for a robot for every person, its a very realistic vision and its two, three years out. >> Bobby, one on the things that has really interested me today is talking about what this means for jobs and careers. Dave and I were at Splunk earlier this week, talking about Splunkers, data is at the center of what they do and everybody comes to them, how do I leverage my data? I did operations for a bunch of my career and I'd spend lots of time with my team saying, what do you hate doing, what are you manually doing? What can you get rid of and there's a collaboration between, I hear, that your customers. It's not just oh some consultancy comes in and they cut something away and they took it away from you. Oh no wait, you're actually involved with this, it seems like an ongoing process and you're making people's jobs better. Can you talk a little about that dynamics of how this transforms a company? The vision for, I hear from UiPath, is that you're going to change the world. >> Yeah, so you have to sit in, you're talking about the future of work, or digital, you have to sit in a conference room and watch a bunch of workers sit around and I'll give you an example. At DISA, big federal government agency, federal government has lifetime workers, right? In the room, where 30 workers, who everyday download assets and then they compile them and then they analyze them. They have their best, fastest kind of human go against the UiPath robot that they automated. In 15 minutes, the human downloaded two assets or archives and the robot did 17. The entire room of 30 cheered! Cheered. No longer do we have to do that crap ever again. And this is, we see this in every industry. It's so much fun because you see just, people just radiating with excitement, right? Because, I was out with a customer today that says they can't even fulfill today with the humans they have, the 25% of the work they got. So, your robots are creating capacity, they're filling the void. You probably heard about Japan, right, and the aging population? And RPA and UiPath addressing suicide rates. This about making society better. This is about robots doing the work that we hate, right? One of our great customers, Holly Uhl from State Auto, said on stage that, you know, robots do the work nobody misses. And, I think that's trivial. Now what about job impacts, right? So, we worry everyday about what this means, right? So, we spend a lot of time on our academy, making it easier to train people, build digital era skills. We announced our academic alliance, right? We hired an amazing Chief of Learning Officer. You saw Tom Clancy. You know him and his team. We're going to train a million students in three years. You know, we're worried about the middle class. We're worried about people who are farther along in their careers and helping them re-skill. So, we take that as a part of our job as a company to figure out how to up-skill people and make them a part of this. And I'm really excited because a year ago when I joined, everybody said, the big problem you have is people going to worry about taking away jobs. I don't hear that from the 1500 customers in here today. >> Well, isn't a part of that re-skilling? Learning how to apply automation, maybe even learning how to apply RPA? Maybe even doing some automation? >> Yeah, so obviously there is-- World Economic Forum came out two weeks ago with a study that said, automation will add net 60 million jobs, I think that was for the people that losses, it will two x gains in jobs. Now those are different jobs in some cases. Some of those jobs are digital era skills, some of those jobs are AI, data science. So, I think that there's... But there are some cubicle jobs that will be affected, right? There are some swivel chair jobs that will be affected, but no different than when they automated toll booths, right? Or automated different parts of mundane work that we've all seen throughout our lives, right? So I think the speed at which this is happening is what worries people. Unlike, in the past, it took a little longer for automation or industrialization to impact jobs. But we're focused on this, right? We're going to put money towards this and we're just not seeing that today. Maybe it's because the economy is doing so great. People have a workforce shortage, but we're just not hearing it. >> Well, I mean, maybe a number of factors. I mean, there's no question, machines have always replaced humans. This is the first time in history of replacing humans in cognitive functions. >> Bobby: Augmenting >> Yes, absolutely, but It does suggest that there's opportunities for whether it's for education, you guys are investing there, training, and re-skilling whether it's around creativity and that's really where the discussion, in our view anyway, should be. Not about, okay lets protect our future, the past from the future. You don't want to just repave the cow path and use another bromide. You got to move forward and education is a key part of that. And you guys are putting your money where your mouth is. >> Yeah, we are and I think our academy that we launched a little over a year and a half ago has a quarter of a million people in it. They are already diplomas on LinkedIn. I watch everyday, people post their new diplomas, the different skills they've earned, right? Go through the courses, it's free. Democratization runs at the heart of this company, it's why we're growing so much faster than at automation anywhere, right? It's why we are a different kind of company. They're a very commercial minded kind of company. They're a marketplace, you have to be a customer. If your URL when you type in your email isn't a customer, you can't go to their store and do anything. We're free, open, share your automations and it's a very different mindset and community runs at our heart. If you're a small business, you know, under a million dollars, you get to use our software for free. And you can run your robots and we have one of our orchestrators run a manager. So, I think all of this is helping get companies and people more comfortable with our technology. There are kids and students now, we had University of Maryland up here. The professor, he's building whole classes now at the University of Maryland. All in the business school, all using our technology. Every student should have a robot, through their entire career, through their entire time at University of Maryland. That's every university, this is going to go so fast, Dave and Stu, so fast. And when I think back again, a year ago, I mean next year when we do this again, right? At our big flagship event, at three or four thousand people, you'll have felt that progression but the year I've been here, it's night and day already. >> Alright, so Bobby you know we're big fans of community. The open source stuff, you've for a long background in that. Help us put together some of these stats here. When I looked in your keynote, you said there's 114,000 certified RPA developers out there across the globe. 139 countries, 250,000 people have downloaded. You've only got at UiPath about 2,000 customers. So, you know, we talk business model and how your business grows, the industry grows, you know? Help us understand that dynamic. >> These are going to go exponential. So, we have large companies now that are committing to deploy UiPath to every employee. Every employee becomes a user then, so you're going to see that user number go like this. While the enterprise customer number goes like this. We're adding six new customers a day right now. The real opportunity for us is every one of our customers, very few are down their journey like an SMBC is. SMBC, RPA is in their annual reports, right? They say 500 million dollars already, right? It's a societal thing. They actually in Japan share together, to help each company. Here, in the U.S., we're a little competitive, right? Banks don't share with other banks typically, right? But, this is kind of what we're driving. It's, when you make an automation at UiPath. While we're not open source as a platform, the automation is open source. You put it on go, I can take that, you can take that. I had the same kind of problem. Put in the studio right away, modify it a bit and you're good to go. Now you've sped your implementation which is already fast by 70, 80, 90%. This is, we're just getting started. So, you're going to see companies adopting across HR, across supply chain, contact centers, you know. Today we're, for the most of our customers we're in one division. So, the opportunity to grow within a company, where we were barely 5% penetrated in our biggest client. >> And you've seen my prediction. A lot of the market forecast are under counting this space. >> Bobby: Right. >> There is a labor shortage, a skilled labor shortage There's more jobs than there are people to fill them. They don't have the right skills today. There is a productivity problem >> Bobby: Right. >> Productivity line is flat. RPA is going to become a fundamental component of digital transformations. It's about a billion dollar business today. I got it pegged at 10X by 2023. >> Craig at Forestry upped his guidance today, he may have told you all, to a 3.3 billion dollar market in 2021. Now I was a little disappointed, it was 2.9 before. I think he's still way under shooting it. But nevertheless, to grow 10% in one year, in his mind, is still pretty big. >> Yeah, a lot of those market forecasts are kind of linear. You're going to see, you know, an S curve, like growth in this market. I think there's no question about it. Just, in speaking to the customers today, we've seen this before in other major industry trends. We certainly saw it at ServiceNow, we saw it at Splunk, we saw it at Tableau. UiPath feels like a very similar vibe here. In Tenex, when we did the show here. I just feel an explosion coming, I already see it. It's palpable. >> One other reason for the explosion which is a little different than say most of the open source tech companies is that they were in IT sales. You don't have to use code to automate your tasks, right? The best developers for us are actually the subject matter experts in finance, in supply chain, in HR. So suddenly we've empowered them. Because IT everywhere is constrained, right? They're dealing with keeping systems current. So suddenly this these tools of software is available to any employee to go learn and automate what they do. The friction we've removed between business have to go to IT, IT be understaffed, IT have to get the requirements. All that's gone! So you create robots overnight, over the weekend. And make your life better. Again, most of the world still does not understand what's going on. I mean you can feel it now. But it's an epiphany for anyone when they see it. >> Well the open mindset that Daniel talked about today, he said, you know our competitors are doing what we do and that's okay. The rising tide lifts all boats kind of thing. That puts pressure on you guys to stay ahead of the pack. Big part of what Tom Clancy is doing is the training piece. That's huge. Free training. So you got to move faster than the market. You're confident you can do that. What gives you confidence? >> I think, one, is our product is simpler to use. So I think, you know, you go to Automation Anywhere and you need the code, right? You don't have to code with our design tool. We're told, we're about 40% faster to implement. And that's, look at the numbers. We shared our numbers again today. 100 million we announced in July 1st, for our first half of in ARR, 140 now, right? We are telling our numbers, we're open and transparent. Our competitors, well Blue Prism is public, right? We know they're growing slower. Another difference is the market, requirements are not created equal. Blue Prism only works in an unattended robot fashion, only in the back office. So, if you have front office automation, with call centers and customer service, they don't have the concept of an attended robot. You know, this idea of so, they lack the ability to serve all the requirements of a customer. I, think, it's just architecturally, I think what we're seeing in terms of simplicity and openness. And then market coverage very different then either Automation Anywhere or BluePrism. >> Alright Bobby, let me poke at something. So, if I look at, you came out this morning and said accelerate everything. One of the concerns I have is say okay, if I take existing processes, a lot of the time if you look at them, they're not ideal. They were manual in nature, it's great to do that but, how much do you need to wait and revisit and get consultants in to kind of fix things rather than just say oh okay. Faster is better for some things but not necessarily for all things unless you can make some adjustments first. >> You don't want to automate a bad process, right? So, we're not encouraging anyone to do that. So, you see a combination of... One thing about RPA is which great, is you don't have to go in and say, I'm going to go do procure to pay like Traditional IT guy. And so you can go into that process and say, oh look at all these errors, these tasks, these sub processes, these tasks. Where this huge friction and you can go automate that and get huge value. >> Almost like micro services. >> Yes, exactly. You're able to go in and that's really what people are doing. On the more ambitious projects, they're saying I'm also going to go optimize my process, think differently. But the reality is, people are going in, they're finding these few parts of a bigger process, automating it, getting immediate outcomes, immediate outcomes. And paying back that entire project in six months, including the fees on extension or PWC or other. That doesn't exist anywhere in technology. That kind of, you know, speed to an outcome and then payback period. It just doesn't exist. >> Well, the fact that the SIs are here. Yeah, we heard 15 day payback today. Super fast, ROI. The fact that the big SIs are here, especially given the relatively early days says a lot about the potential market size. I always joke, those guys like to eat at the trough. This is big business and it's important for you guys because they're strategic, they're at the board level. You need the top down support, at the same time, it sounds like there's a lot of bottom up activity. >> Bobby: Right. >> And that's where the innovations going to come from. What's next for you guys, you taking this show on the road again? >> Right, so the next Forward is in London. So, we had one in Europe and one in the U.S. We do what we call togethers, which is more intimate. Or all around the world, which are country specific or industry. I mean, we're going to go and call it the Automation First Tour. And we're going to go start our next tours up all through next year. Hit all the cities again, probably three times this size, each city. You know, I looked at Washington D.C. with federal government, we started federal government in January. Federal government for us next year should be a 60 million software business. For our partners, give them 6, 8, 10X on services on top of that. That's meaningful, that's why you see them here. That same calculation exists in every vertical and in every country. And so it's good for our partners. It's great, we want them to focus on building their skills though. Getting good skills and quality. So, we do a lot with them. We host a partner Forward yesterday with 500 partners, focusing on them. Look, we are investing in you, but you got to deliver quality, right? So, I think we amplify everything we did this year because it worked for us well. We amplify it big time and Forward in a year from now, whether it's Vegas or Orlando or we'll announce it soon, willl be substantially larger. >> Well, any company that's digitally transforming is going to put RPA as part of that digital transformation. It's not without its challenges but it's a tailwind. You better hop on that wave or you going to end up driftwood as Pat Gelsinger likes to say. Bobby, thanks so much. >> Bobby: Thank you Dave. >> Thanks for having us here. This has been a fantastic experience and congratulations and good luck going forward. >> Thank you. >> Alright guys, that's a wrap from here. This is theCUBE. Check out theCUBE.net Check out SiliconeANGLE.com for all the news. Cube.net's where all the videos are, wikimon.com for all the research. We are busy Stu, we're on the road a lot. So again, look at the upcoming events. Thanks for watching everybody. We'll see you next time.

>> Announcer: Live from Washington, DC, it's CUBEConversations with John Furrier. (techy music playing) >> Welcome back everyone, here to a special CUBEConversation in Washington, DC. We're actually in Arlington, Virginia, at Amazon Web Services Public Sector Headquarters. We're here with Sri Vasireddy, who is with REAN Cloud and recently won a big award for $950 million for the Department of Defense contract to partner with Amazon Web Services, really kind of changing the game in the cloud space with Amazon, among other partners. Thanks for joining me today. >> Thank you. >> So, obviously we love cloud. I mean, we actually, we have all of our stuff in Amazon, so we're kind of a little bit biased, but we're open minded to any cloud that we don't provision any infrastructure, so we love the idea of horizontally disrupting markets. We're just kind of doing it on a media business. You're taking an approach with REAN Cloud that's different. What's different about what you guys are doing and why are you winning so much? >> Yeah, I mean, I guess that is, you know, the key word being disruption. You know, I'm hearing more and more as this news spreads out about why, you know, we've disrupted, so they're proven the disruption, and when I mean disruption, you know, I'll explain what the disruption, you know, we're creating in the service industry is if you take a typical, like a services company-- >> John: Mm-hm. >> They integrate products using people to integrate products to solve a problem, but in the cloud world you can create those integrations with programmatic or APIs, so we can create turnkey solutions. With that, what we're able to do is really sell outcome based. We go to the customer and say it's not time and material, it's not fixed price, it's pure outcome based. So, to give you an example, let's say if you went to a theme park and while you're on a ride somebody just takes a picture, and then after you're done with the ride they put a picture in front of you and say, "Do you want to buy this?" And if you don't buy it they throw it away, so we literally have the ability to create those outcomes on the fly like that, and that's the disruption because that kind of outcome based allows customers to meet their goals much quicker. So, one of the secrets to do that, if I can get this right, is you have to have a really software driven, data driven environment. >> Sri: Absolutely. >> So, that's fundamental, so I want to explore how you do that, and then what does it mean for the customers because what you're essentially doing is kind of giving a little predictive solution management to them. Say you want to connect to this service-- >> Sri: Yeah. >> Is that microservices, is this where it's going to be wired, take us through how that works, because there's tech involved. I'm not saying you don't want to throw anything away, but if it's digital (chuckling) what does it mean to turn it on or off, so is this what people are referring to with microservices and cloud? >> Yeah, so I'll get to the microservices part. The disruption, the way, you know... The innovation that we created is if you take 20 years ago, when you look at people transforming to the internet, right, so their first time they're going on the internet, at the time they were paying a HTML developer that would develop a webpage. >> Mm-hm. >> You know, hundreds of dollars an hour, right, and today high school kids can create their own webpages. That's the outcome focus, because the technology matured to a point where it auto-generates those HTML pages. So, fast forward 20 years, today people are looking for devops engineer as a talent, and whatever that devops engineer produces, we've figured out a way to outcome base. We can drag and drop and create my architectures and we are to produce that code, right. That's what makes us very unique. Now, coming to your question about microservices, when we are going to large customers we're taking this phased approach, right. First they will do lift and shift based-- >> John: Mm-hm. >> Move to cloud, which actually doesn't even give them a lot of their features. It doesn't give them better response. It doesn't optimize for cloud and give the benefits. Say they put in the effort to apply devops to become very responsive to customers. Say if I'm a bank I have my checking business and savings business, and each line of business got very efficient by using cloud, but they have not disrupted an industry because they have not created a platform across lines of business. >> John: Mm-hm. >> Right, so what they really need to do is to take these services they are providing across lines of business and create a platform of microservices. >> So, you basically provide an automation layer for things that are automated, but you allow glue to bring them together. >> Absolutely. >> That then kicks off microservices on top of it. >> Absolutely, right. >> So, very innovative, so you essentially, it's devops in a box. (laughing) >> That's it and what-- >> Or in the cloud. >> Yeah, what normally takes three years, so most of our customers when they tell this story they tell us, "Oh, that's five years down the road." So, we knock out three years off the mark, right. There are companies that, for example, DOD is one of our customers. >> Mm-hm. >> There are some other companies that have been working with DOD for the last two, three years and they have not been able to accomplish what we accomplished in three months. >> You guys see a more holistic approach. I can imagine just you basically break it down, automate it, put it in a library, use the overlay to drag and drop. >> Exactly, plug and play and that's it. >> So, question for you, so this makes sense in hardened environments like DOD, probably locked and solid, pretty solid but what about unknown, new processes. How do you guys look at that, do you take them as they come or use AI, so if you have unknown processes that can morph out of this, how do you deal with that use case? >> So, yeah, those unfortunately, you know, so what... There's this notion of co-creation-- >> John: Yeah. >> So, there's unknown processes where we put out best engineers is what drives to this commoditization or legos that-- >> So, you're always feeding the system with new, if you will, recipes. I use that word as more of a chef thing, but you know, more-- >> Sri: Exactly. >> Modules, if you will. >> Sri: Yeah. >> As a bit of an automated way, so it's really push button cloud. >> Absolutely. >> So, no integration, you don't have to hire coders to do anything. >> No. >> At best hit a rest API-- >> Sri: Yeah. >> Or initiate a microservice. >> Yeah, so what, I mean, the company started with Amazon.com as a, sorry Amazon Web Services as our first customer, and they retained us for software companies like Microsoft, SAP, and they went to Amazon and said, "We want to create a turnkey solution," like email as a solution, for example, for Microsoft, exchanging software. Email as a solution is spam filters plus, you know, four or five other things that we have to click button and launch, and Amazon, then we were servicing Amazon to create these turnkey solutions. >> So, talk about the DOD deal, because now this is interesting because I can see how they could like this. What does it mean for the customer, your customer, in this case the DOD, when you won this new contract was announced a couple days ago, how'd that go down? >> Yeah, so you know, I think we're super happy. Actually, again, 2010-- >> All your friends calling you and saying, "Hey, that $950 million check clear yet?" (laughing) That doesn't work that way, does it? >> It doesn't, it doesn't quite work that way, but although, you know, just some history, 10 years ago I had to choose between joining as a lead cloud architect for DISA versus first architect for Amazon Web Services, and I made the choice to go to Amazon Web Services, although I really loved servicing DOD because I think DOD's very mature in what you're calling microservices. >> John: Mm-hm. Back in the day, they had to be on the forefront of net-centric enterprise services, modern day microservices, because the Information Sharing Act required them to create so many services across the department, right, but there wasn't a technology like Amazon Web Services to make them so successful. >> John: Yeah. >> So, we're coming back now and we're able to do this, and I was with a company called MITRE at the time-- >> John: Yeah. >> And we, you know, I was the lead on the first infrastructure as a service BPA. If I compare to what that infrastructure as a service BPA was, the blanket purchase agreement, to what this OTA I think it's a night and day difference. >> What's OTA? >> OTA stands for other transaction agreements. >> Okay, got it. >> Which is how-- >> It's a contract thing. >> It's a contract thing, it's outside of federal acquisition regulation. >> Okay, got it. >> Which is beautiful, by the way, because unlike if you are doing such a deal, $950 million deal, probably companies that spend millions of dollars to write paper to win the deal, OTA's a little different. DIUx, who has the charter for the OTA, they need to find a real customer and a real problem to bring commercial entities and the commercial innovation to solve a theory problem, and then we have to prove ourselves. Thereabout, I'm told 29 companies competed and we, you know, we won the first phase, but there were two consequent phases where we have to provide our services, our platform, to the customer's satisfaction, and the OTA can only be the services we already provide. So, it's a very proven technology. >> John: Mm-hm. >> And as I see some of the social media responses, I look at those responses that people are talking about, you know, small companies winning this big deal and somebody was responding like, okay, we spent, you know, hundreds of millions on large companies, did nothing, and this small company already did a lot with $6 million. >> Well, that's the flattening of the world we're living in. You're doing with devops, you've automated away a lot of their inefficiencies. >> Absolutely, yeah. >> And this is really what cloud's about. That's the promise that you're getting to the DOD. >> Sri: Yeah, absolutely. >> So, the question for you is, okay, now as you go into this, and they could've added another $50 million just to get a nice billion dollar, get a unicorn feature in there, but congratulations. >> Sri: Thank you. >> You got to go in and automate. How do you roll this out, how big is the company, what are your plans, are you... Where do you go from here? >> Our company today is, you know, about 300 plus people, but we're not rolling this out on a people basis, obviously, right. You know, usually we have at least 10x more productivity than a normal company because especially servicing someone like DOD, it's very interesting because they do follow standards set by DISA. >> Mm-hm. >> So, what that means is if I'm building applications or microservices, which is a collection of instances, I have, DISA has something called STIG. You know, it's security guidelines, so everybody is using these STIG components. Now we create this drag and drop package of those components, and at that point it's variations of, you know, those components that you drag and drop and create, right, and the best thing is you get very consistent quality, secure, you know, deployment. >> I mean, you and I are on the same page on this whole devops valuation, and certainly Mark and Teresa wrote that seminal common about the 10x engineer. >> Sri: Yeah. >> This is really the scale we're talking about here. >> Sri: Absolutely. >> You know, so for the folks that don't get this, how do you explain to them that they, like what Oracle and IBM and the other guys are trying to do there. All the old processes are like they got stacks of binders of paper, they have their strategies to go win the deals, and then they're scratching their heads saying, "Why didn't we win?" What are they missing, what are the competitors that failed in the bid, what are they missing with cloud in your opinion? Is it the architecture, is it the automation, is it the microservices, or are they just missing the boat on the sales motion? >> Yeah, I think the biggest thing that people need to know is being on their toes. When Andy talks about being on the toes, when companies like Amazon at scale being on their toes, which means gone are those days where you can have roadmaps that you plan year, you know, year from now and you know, you do it, you're away from the customer by then, right, but if you're constantly focusing on the customer and innovating every day, right, we have a vision and a backlog. We don't have a roadmap, right. What we work on is what our next customer needs. >> John: Mm-hm. >> Right, and you're constantly servicing customers and you have stories to tell about customers being successful. >> What's your backlog look like? (laughing) >> Backlog could be a zillion things. Like what-- >> Features. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Feature requests or just whatever the customer might need. >> Feature requests, user stories, really understanding the why part of it. We try to emphasize the why of, you know, why you're doing and whose pain are you solving type of things, but the important thing is, you know, are we focusing on what matters to the customer next. >> How hard is multi-cloud to do, because if you take devops and you have this abstraction layer that you're providing on top of elastic resources, like say Amazon Web Services, when you start taking multi-cloud, isn't that just an API call or does it kind of change because you have, Amazon's got S3 and EC2 and a variety of other services, Azure and Google have their own file system. How hard is it code-based-wise to do what you're doing across multiple clouds? >> It's not at all difficult because every cloud has their infrastructure as code language, just like I talked about, you know, HTML to be generated to get a webpage. We use a technology called Terraform-- >> Mm-hm. >> That is inherently multi-cloud, so when we generate that cord I could change the provider and make it, you know, another cloud, right. >> Just a whole nother language conversion. >> Sri: A whole nother language, yes, exactly. >> So, you guys, do you have to do that heavy lifting upfront? >> Again, we don't, and it so happened that it will look at our platform that automates all these-- >> Yeah. >> The Amazon part of it grew so much because of what I just said. Like, the customer demand, even the enterprise customers that do have a multi-cloud strategy-- >> Mm-hm. >> You know, they end up more of what is good. >> Yeah. >> Sri: Right, so we end up building more of what is good. >> So, the lesson is, besides be on your toes, which I would agree with Andy on that one, is to be devops, automate, connect via APIs. >> Yeah. >> Anything else you would add to that? >> Devops is a, it's a principle of being very agile, experimenting in small batches, being very responsive to customers, right. It is all principles that, you know, that we embody and just call it devops, it's a culture. >> Managing partner of REAN Cloud. Sri, thanks so much for coming in. Congratulations on your $950 million, this close to a billion, almost, and congratulations on your success. Infrastructures, code, devops, going to the next level is all about automation and really making things connect and easily driven by software and data. It's theCUBE bringing you the data here in Washington, DC, here in Arlington, Virginia, AWS's Public Sector World Headquarters. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (techy music playing)

>> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCube. We're in Palo Alto, California, at one of the Chertoff events. It's called Security in the Boardroom. They have these events all over the country, and this is really kind of elevating the security conversation beyond the edge, and beyond CISOs to really the boardroom, which is really where the conversation needs to happen. And our next guest, really excited to have We've got Chad Sweet, he's the co-founder and CEO of the Chertoff Group. Welcome Chad. >> Great to be here. >> And with him also Reggie Brothers, he's the principal at the Chertoff Group, and spent a lot of time in Washington. Again you can check his LinkedIn and find out his whole history. I won't go through it here. First off, welcome gentlemen. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So, before we jump in a little bit of-- What are these events about? Why should people come? >> Well, basically they're a form in which we bring together both practitioners and consumers of security. Often it's around a pragmatic issue that the industry or government's facing, and this one, as you just said, priority of security, cyber screening in particular, in the boardroom, which is obviously what we're reading about everyday in the papers with the Petya and NotPetya and the WannaCry attacks, these are basically, I think, teachable moments that are affecting the whole nation. And so this is a great opportunity for folks to come together in a intimate form, and we welcome everybody who wants to come. Check out our website at chertoffgroup.com >> Okay, great, and the other kind of theme here, that we're hearing over and over is the AI theme, right? >> Yeah. >> We hear about AI and machine learning all over the place and we're in Mountain View and there's self-driving cars driving all over the place and Google tells me, like, "you're home now." And I'm like, "Ah, that's great." But there's much bigger fish to fry with AI and there's a much higher level. And Reggie you just came off a panel talking about some much higher level-- I don't know if issues is the right word, maybe issues is the right word, around AI for security. So, I wonder if you can share some of those insights. >> I think issues, challenges, are the right words. >> Challenges, that's probably a better word. >> Those are good words, because particularly you're talking about security application. Whether it's corporate or government the issue becomes trust. How do you trust that this machine has made the right kind of decision, how do you make it traceable. One of the challenges with the current AI technology is it's mostly based on machine-learning. Machine-learning tends to be kind of a black box where you know know what goes in and you train what comes out. That doesn't necessarily mean you understand what's going inside the box. >> Right. >> So then if you have a situation where you really need to be able to trust this decision this machine's making How do you trust it? What's the traceability? So, in the panel we started discussing that. Why is it so important to have this level of trust? You brought up autonomous-vehicles, well of course, you want to make sure that you can trust your vehicle to make the right decision if it has to make a decision at an intersection. Who's it going to save? How do you trust that machine becomes a really big issue. I think it's something that in the machine-learning community, as we learn in the panel, is really starting to grapple with and face that challenge. So I think there's good news, but I think it's a question that when think about what we have to ask when we're adopting these kind of machine-learning AI solutions we have to make sure we do ourself. >> So, it's really interesting, the trust issue, because there's so many layers to it, right? We all get on airplanes and fly across country all the time, right? And those planes are being flown by machines, for the most part. And at the same time if you start to unpack some of these crazy algorithms, even if you could open up the black box, unless you're a data scientist and you have a PhD, in some of these statistical analysis could you really understand it anyway? So how do you balance it? We're talking about the boardroom. What's the level of discovery? What's the level of knowledge that's appropriate without necessarily being a full-fledged data scientist who are the ones that are actually writing those algorithms? >> So I think that's a challenge, right, because I think when you look at the types of ways that people are addressing this trust challenge it is highly technical, alright. People are making hybrid systems where you can do some type of traceability but that's highly technical for the boardroom. I think what's important is that the-- and one thing that we did talk about on the panel and even prior to panel was on cybersecurity and governance, we talked about the importance of being able to speak in a language that everyone-- that the laborers can understand. You can't just speak in a computer science jargon kind of manner. You have to be able to speak to the person that's actually making the decision. Which means you have to really understand the problem, because I think my experience the people that can speak in the plainest language understand the problem the best. So these problems are things that can be explained they just tend not to be explained, because they're in this super technical domain. >> But you know, Reggie is being very humble. He's got a PhD from MIT and worked at the defense advanced research-- >> Well he can open the box. >> He can open the box. I'm a simple guy from Beaumont, Texas, so I can kind of dumb it down for the average person. I think on the trust issue over time whether, and you just mentioned some of it, if you use the analogy of a car or the board room or a war scenario, it's the result. So you get comfortable, you know the first time, I have a Tesla, the first time I let go of the wheel and let it drive it's self was a scary experience but then when you actually see the result and get to enjoy and experience the actual performance of the vehicle that's when the trust can begin. And I think in a similar vein, in the military context, you know, we're seeing automation start to take hold. The big issue will be in that moment of ultimate trust, i.e. do you allow a weapon actually to have lethal decision-making authority, and we just talked about that on the panel, which is the ultimate trust is-- is not really today in the military something that we're prepared to trust yet. I think we've seen in, there's only a couple places, like the DMZ in North Korea where we actually do have a few systems that are, if they actually detect an attack because there's such a short response time, those are the rare exceptions of where lethal authority is at least being considered. I think Elon Musk has talked about how the threat of AI, and how this could, if it's not, we don't have some norms put around it then that trust could not be developed, cause there wouldn't be this checks and balances. So, in the boardroom that last scenario, I think, the boards are going to be facing these cyber attacks and the more that they experience once the attack happens how the AI is providing some immediate response in mitigation and hopefully even prevention, that's where the trust will begin. >> The interesting thing, though, is that the sophistication of the attacks is going up dramatically, right? >> Chad: Yep. >> Why do we have machine-learning in AI? Because it's fast. It can react to a ton of data and move at speeds that we as people can't, such as your self-driving car. And now we're seeing an increase in state-sponsored threats that are coming in, it's not just the crazy kid in the basement, you know, hacking away to show his friend, but you know, now they're trying to get much more significant information, trying to go after much more significant systems. So, it almost begs then that you have to have the North Korean example when your time windows are shorter, when the assets are more valuable and when the sophistication of the attacking party goes up, can people manage it, you know, I would assume that the people role, you know, will continue to get further and further up the stack where the automation takes an increasing piece of it. >> So let's pull on that, right. So if you talk to the Air Force, cause the Air Force does a lot of work on autonomy, DoD General does, but the Air Force has this chart where they show that over time the resource that will be dedicated by a machine, autonomous machine, will increase and resources to a human decrease, to a certain level, to a certain level. And that level is really governed by policy issues, compliance issues. So there's some level over which because of policy and compliance the human will always be in the loop. You just don't let the machine run totally open loop, but the point is it has to run at machine speed. So let's go back to your example, with the high speed cyber attacks. You need to have some type of defensive mechanism that can react at machine speed, which means at some level the humans are out of that part of the loop, but you still have to have the corporate board person, as Chad said, have trust in that machine to operate at this machine speed, out of the loop. >> In that human oversight one of the things that was discussed on on the panel was that interestingly AI can actually be used in training of humans to upgrade their own skills, and so right now in the Department of Defense, they do these exercises on cyber ranges and there's about a 4 month waiting period just to get on the ranges, that's how congested they are. And even if you get on it, if you think about it, right now there's a limited number of human talent, human instructors that can simulate the adversary and oversee that, and so actually using AI to create a simulated adversary and being able to do it in a gamified environment is something that's increasingly going to be necessary to make it, to keep everyone's skills, and to do it real-time 24/7 against active threats that are being morphed over time. That's really where we have to get our game up to. So, watch for companies like Circadence, which are doing this right now with the Air Force, Army, DISA, and also see them applying this, as Reggie said, in the corporate sphere where a lot of the folks who will tell you today they're facing this asymmetric threat, they have a lot of tools, but they don't necessarily trust or have the confidence that when the balloon goes up, when the attack is happening, is my team ready? And so being able to use AI to help simulate these attacks against their own teams so they can show the board actually our guys are at this level of tested-ness and readiness. >> It's interesting Hal's talking to me in the background as you're talking about the cyber threat, but there's another twist on that, right, which is where machines aren't tired, they didn't have a bad day, they didn't have a fight with the kids in the morning. So you've got that kind of human frailty which machines don't have, right, that's not part of the algorithm generally. But it's interesting to me that it usually comes down to, as most things of any importance, right, it's not really a technical decision. The technical pieces was actually pretty easy. The hard part is what are the moral considerations, what are the legal considerations, what are the governance considerations, and those are what really ultimately drive the decision to go or no-go. >> I absolutely agree. One of the challenges that we face is what is our level of interaction between the machine and the human, and how does that evolve over time. You know, people talk about the centaur model, where the centaur, the mythical horse and human, where you have this same kind of thing with the machine and human, right? You want this seamless type of interaction, but what does that really mean, and who does what? What they've found is you've got machines have beaten, obviously, our human chest masters, they've beaten our goal masters. But the things that seems to work best is when there's some level of teaming between the human and the machine. What does that mean? And I think that's going to be a challenge going forward is how we start understanding what that frontier is where the human and machine have to have this really seamless interaction. How do we train for that, how do we build for that? >> So, give your last thoughts before I let you go. The chime is running, they want you back. As you look down the road, just a couple years, I would never say more than a couple years, and, you know, Moore's Law is not slowing down people argue will argue they're crazy, you know, chips are getting faster, networks are getting faster, data systems are getting faster, computers are getting faster, we're all carrying around mobile phones and just blowing off tons of digital exhaust as our systems. What do you tell people, how do boards react in this rapidly evolving, you know, on like an exponential curve environment in which we're living, how do they not just freeze? >> Well if you look at it, I think, to use a financial analogy and almost every board knows the basic foundational formula for accounting which is assets equals liabilities plus equity. I think in the future because no business today is immune from the digital economy every business is being disrupted by the digital economy and it's-- there are businesses that are underpinned by the trust of the digital economy. So, every board I think going forward has to become literate on cybersecurity and Artificial Intelligence will be part of that board conversation, and they'll need to learn that fundamental formula of risk, which is risk equals threat, times vulnerability, times consequence. So in the months ahead part of what the Chertoff Group will be doing is playing a key role in helping to be an educator of those boards and a facilitator in these important strategic discussions. >> Alright, we'll leave it there. Chad Sweet, Reggie Brothers thanks for stopping by. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, appreciate it. >> Alright, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCube. We're at the Chertoff event, it's security in the boardroom. Think about it, we'll catch ya next time.

(theCUBE theme music) >> Narrator: Live from Washington D.C. It's theCUBE, covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its partner ecosystem. >> Welcome back here to the show floor at AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Along with John Furrier, I'm John Walls. Glad to have you here on theCUBE as we continue our coverage here live from the nation's capital. Joining us now from Enlighten IT Consulting is John Eubank IV, Director of Program Management Office. John, thanks for joining us here on theCUBE, a CUBE rookie, I believe, is that correct? >> Yes, sir, yeah, thanks for the invite. >> Nice to break the maiden, good to have you aboard here. First off, tell us a little bit about your consulting firm for our viewers at home, to give an idea about your frame and why you're here at AWS. >> Absolutely, so we're a big data consulting company focused on cyber security solutions for the DOD IC community. What we jumped into about three years ago was a partnership with AWS. And seeing, just the volume, the velocity of data coming out of the DOD, that those on-premise server farms could not keep up, could not support it with the power, space and cooling needs. So we partnered with AWS and over the last three years we've been migrating our customers up to GovCloud, specifically. >> So what are you doing then for DOD specifically, then? When you said you solve problems, right? They've got reams and reams of data, trying to help them manage that process a little bit better, but, you know, drill down a little bit more specifically what you're doing for DOD. >> Absolutely, so we developed a proprietary technology called the Rapid Analytic Deployment and Management Framework, RADMF, it's available on RADMF.com, R A D M F dot com. >> John Walls: True marketer. >> Yeah, true marketer at heart. So that's our, sort of governance framework for DOD applications that want to move to the cloud. It automates the deployment process to get 'em out of their existing systems up to the cloud. One of the real problems inside the DOD that we've encountered is the disparate data sets to enable effective analytics when it comes to cyber security solutions. So, I like to think back to the day one conversation about, sort of the data swamp, not the data lake. That's exactly what we have inside the DOD. There's so many home-built sensors, paired with COT sensors, that it's created this absolute mess, or nightmare of data. That swamp needs to be drained. It needs to be, sort of refined in a way that we can call it a data lake, something understandable that people can-- >> I hate the term data lake, I, you've been listening, I, John knows I hate the term data lake. Love the term data swamp, because it illustrates exactly that, there is, if you don't watch the data, and don't share it, it's just stagnant, and it turns into a swamp. And I think, this is a huge issue. >> John Eubank IV: Absolutely correct. >> So I want you to just double down on that, just give some color. Is it the volume of the data, is it the lack of sharing, both? (laughs) >> It's really every, it's everything under the sun, there's, you know, sharing issues all across the federal government right now and who can see what data, Navy doesn't want to share with Army, inside the IC-- >> John Furrier: Well that'll never happen. >> Agencies don't want to share with each other. (laughs) I think we're, we're breaking down those walls. We're seeing that, when it comes to cyber security, no one person can defend an entire nation. No one agency can defend an entire nation on their own. It has to be a collaborative solution. It has to be a team effort. Navy, Army, Air Force, IC, etc., have to work together, in tendem, in partnership, if we're ever going to just, defend our nation from cyber hackers. >> I want to ask you a philosophical question, because, you know, as someone who's been online all my life, computer science, you've seen, there's always the notion of trolling, the notion of online message boards, back in the day when I was running, is now main stream now, >> John Eubank IV: Right. >> I mean people trolling each other on Twitter, for crying out loud, main stream. So, the culture of digital has an ethos, and open source is a big driver on that cyber security, there's a huge ethos of sharing, and it's kind of an honor among practitioners. >> John Eubank IV: Mm-hmm. 'cause they know how big the threat is. How is that evolving? Because this seems to highlight, your point about sharing, that it's, the digital world's different than the analog world, and some of the practices that are getting traction can be doubled-down on. So everyone's trying to figure out what's, what should be double-down on, and what are the good practices from the bad? Can you just share some cultural... >> Well, I think you hit the nail on the head with the open source model there. That is the key right here. It's not even within the government we need to share. It's industry and government, in partnership, need to approach these problem sets together and work on 'em as one cohesive body. So, for example, our company, our platform, it's entirely an open source platform. It's government-owned solution. We don't sell, it's the big data platform, it's provided by DISA right now. We don't sell that product. It's available to any government agency that wants it for free. We have 1500 different software developers and engineers from across the government community that collaborate together to evolve that platform. And that's really the only way we're going to make a significan difference right now. >> That creativity that could come out of this new process that you're referring to, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here on theCUBE, is interesting because you think about all those people on Twitch. >> John Eubank IV: Uh-huh. >> 34 million, I think, a day or whatever the big number, it's a huge number. Those idle gamers could be actually collaborating on a core problem that could be fun. So if you look at a crowd sourcing model of attacking data, this is kind of a whole new mindset of culture. To me, this is the kind of doors that open up when you start thinking like this model. Because the bad guys are already ahead of the game. I mean, so, how do you, how do you guys talk about that, 'cause you guys have to kind of keep some data masked, and you have to kind of, maybe not expose everything. How do you balance that secretive nature of it, and yet opening it up? >> That's a question that the DHS is struggling with, sort of day in and day out right now. They're going through a couple different iterations of different efforts. There was the ESSA program, there's the Automated Indicator Sharing program going on right now with DHS and some of the IC partners of what do we share with industry, because we're recognizing as a government we can't defend this nation on our own. We need an industry partnership. How do we open that up to the general public of the United States to do that crowd sourced mentality. Threat hunting is a lot of fun if you know what you're doing, and if somebody will guide you down the path, it's an endless world and a need for threat analysts to study the data sets that are out there. Indicators of compromise point you in a general direction, but they're a wide-open direction, and... >> They're already playing, it's like lagging in a video game, they're, gamers are already ahead of, the hackers are already ahead of you. Interesting point, Berkeley, University of California at Berkeley has a new program, they call it the quote Navy Seals of cyber. It's an integrated computer science and engineering and Haas business school program. And it's a four-year degree specifically for a special forces kind of thinking. Interdisciplinary, highly data driven, computer science, engineering and business so they can understand, again, hackers run a business model. These are organized units. This is kind of what we're up against. >> Absolutely agree. >> John Furrier: What are your thoughts on that? You think that's the, the right direction, we need more of it? >> We need more of it, absolutely. DOD is moving in the same direction with the cyber protection teams or CPTs. They're beginning to do sort of the same formal training models for the soldiers. Unfortunately, right now a lot of the cyber protection teams are just scavenged resources from other branches of the military. So you have guys in EOD that are now transitioning into cyber, and they're going from diffusing bombs to diffusing cyber threats. It's a totally different scenario and use case, and it's a tough struggle to transition into that when your background was diffusing a bomb. >> And you brought up the industry collaboration, talking about private, you know, private sector and public sector. I know, you know, personal experience in the wireless space, there was a lot of desire to share information, but yet there was a congressional reluctance. >> John Eubank IV: Mm-hmm. >> To allow that. For different concerns. Some we thought were very unwarranted at the time. So how do you deal with that, because that's another influence in this, is that you might have willing parties, but you've got another body over here that might not be on board. >> I think we're going to start seeing more of a shift as private industry acknowledges their need for government support and that government collaboration, so data breaches like the Target breach and massive credit card breaches that, you know, these private industries cannot keep up with defending their own network. They need government supoort for defending very large corporations. Walmart, Target, Home Depot, the list goes on of breaches. >> Final question as we wrap up here, but what's the coolest tech that you're seeing that's enabling you to be successful, whether it's cool tech that you're looking at, you're kicking the tires on. From software to Amazon, hardware, what are you seeing that's out there that's really moving the needle and getting people motivated? >> So a surprising thing there, I'm going to say the Snowball Edge. And people go, it's just a data hard drive. Well, not really. It's way more than a data hard drive. So when you come to Amazon you think enterprise solutions, enterprise capabilities. What the Snowball Edge provides is a deployable unit that has processing, compute, storage, etc., onboard that you can take into your local networks. They're putting it so you can run any VM you want on the Snowball Edge. What we're doing is we're taking that inside DOD tactical spaces that don't have connections to the internet. We're able to do computation analytics on threats facing that local regional onclave using a hard drive. It's really cool technology that hasn't been fully explored, but that's uh, that's where we're-- >> You can tell you're excited about it. Your eyes light up, you got a big smile on your face. >> Drove the new Ferrari that came out. >> Yeah, right. >> When I saw it, I just jumped all in. >> John Walls: You loved it, right. >> So, three months ago... >> You knew right away, too. >> Right. >> John Furrier: The big wheel. >> John, thank you for being with us. I think they're going to kick us out of the place, John. >> Hey, they got to unplug us. We're going to go until they unplug us. >> Alright, John, again thanks for being with us. >> Well, thank you guys for your time, much appreciated. >> Thank you for joining us here from Washington, for all of us here at theCUBE, we appreciate you being along for the ride at AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. (theCUBE theme music)