>> Announcer: From San Francisco, it's theCUBE! Covering RSA Conference 2020 San Francisco. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Hey welcome back, get ready, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE, we're at RSA 2020, here at Moscone, it's a really pretty day outside in San Francisco, unfortunately we're at the basement of Moscone, but that's 'cause this is the biggest thing going in security, it's probably 15,000 people, we haven't got the official number yet, but this is the place to be and security is a really really really big deal, and we're excited to have our next guest, I haven't seen her for a little while, since data privacy day. I tried to get Scott McNealy to join us, he unfortunately was predisposed and couldn't join us. Michelle Finneran Dennedy, in her new job, the CEO of DrumWave. Michelle, great to see you. >> Great to see you too, I'm sorry I missed you on privacy day. >> I know, so DrumWave, tell us all about DrumWave, last we saw you this is a new adventure since we last spoke. >> It's a new adventure, so this is my first early stage company, we're still seeking series A, we're a young company, but our mantra is we are the data value company. So they have had this very robust analytics engine that goes into the heart of data, and can track it and map it and make it beautiful, and along came McNealy, who actually sits on our board. And they said we need someone, it's all happening. So they asked Scott McNealy, who is the craziest person in privacy and data that you know and he said "Oh my God, get the Dennedy woman." So, they got the Dennedy woman and that's what I do now, so I've taken this analytics value engine, I'm pointing it to the board as I've always said, Grace Hopper said, data value and data risk has to be on the corporate balance sheet, and so that's what we're building is a data balance sheet for everyone to use, to actually value data. >> So to actually put a value on the data, so this is a really interesting topic, because people talk about the value of data, we see the value of data wrapped up, not directly, but indirectly in companies like Facebook and Google and those types of companies who clearly are leveraging data in a very different way, but it is not a line item on a balance sheet, they don't teach you that at business school next to capital assets and, right, so how are you attacking the problem, 'cause that's a huge, arguably will be the biggest asset anyone will have on their balance sheet at some point in time. >> Absolutely, and so I go back to basic principles, the same as I did when I started privacy engineering. I look and I say "Okay, if we believe the data's an asset," and I think that at least verbally, we all say the words "Yes, data is an asset," instead of some sort of exhaust, then you have to look back and say "What's an asset?" Well an asset, under the accounting rules, is anything tangible or intangible that is likely to cause economic benefit. So you break that down, what is the thing, well you got to map that thing. So where is your data? Well data tells you where it is. Instead of bringing in clip boards and saying "Hey, Jeff, my man, do you process PII?" We don't do that, we go to your system, and when you go on DrumWave, you're automatically receiving an ontology that says what is this likely to be, using some machine learning, and then every single column proclaims itself. And so we have a data provenance for every column, so you put that into an analytics engine, and suddenly you can start asking human questions of real data. >> And do you ask the questions to assess the value of the data, or is the ultimate valuation of that data in the categorization and the ontology, and knowing that I have this this this and this, or I mean we know what the real value is, the soft value is what you can do with it, but when you do the analytics on it, are you trying to get to unlock what the potential, underlying analytic value is of that data that you have in your possession? >> Yeah, so the short answer is both, and the longer answer is, so my cofounder, Andre Vellozo, believes, and I believe too, that every conversation is a transaction. So just like you look at transactions within the banking context, and you say, you have to know that it's there, creating a data ontology. You have to know what the context is, so when you upload your data, you receive a data provenance, now you can actually look at, as the data controller, you open what we call your wallet, which is your portal into our analytics engine, and you can see across the various data wranglers, so each business unit has put their data on, because the data's not leaving your place, it's either big data, small data, I don't really care data. Everything comes in through every business unit, loads up their data set, and we look across it and we say "What kind of data is there?" So there's quantitative data saying, if you took off the first 10 lines of this column in marketing, now you have a lump of data that's pure analytics. You just share those credentials and combine that dataset, you know you have a clean set of data that you can even sell, or you can create an analytic, because you don't have any PII. For most data sets, you look at relative value, so for example, one of the discussions I had with a customer today, we know when we fail in privacy, we have a privacy breach, and we pay our lawyers, and so on. Do you know what a privacy success is? >> Hopefully it's like an offensive lineman, you don't hear their name the whole game right, 'cause they don't get a holding call. >> Until they put the ball in the hole. So who's putting the ball in the hole, sales is a privacy success. You've had a conversation with someone who was the right someone in context to sign on the bottom line. You have shared information in a proportionate way. If you have the wrong data, your sale cycle is slower. So we can show, are you efficiently sharing data, how does that correlate with the results of your business unit? Marketing is another privacy success. There's always that old adage that we know that 50% of marketing is a waste, but we don't know which 50%. Well now we can look at it and say "All right," marketing can be looked at as people being prepared to buy your product, or prepared to think in a new, persuasive way. So who's clicking on that stuff, that used to be the metric, now you should tie that back to, how much are you storing for how long related to who's clicking, and tying it to other metrics. So the minute you put data into an analytics engine, it's not me that's going to tell you how you're going to do your data balance sheet, you're going to tell me how dependent you are on digital transactions versus tangible, building things, selling things, moving things, but everyone is a digital business now, and so we can put the intelligence on top of that so you, the expert in value, can look at that value and make your own conclusions. >> And really, what you're talking about then is tying it to my known processes, so you're almost kind of parsing out the role of the data in doing what I'm trying to do with my everyday business. So that's very different than looking at, say, something like, say a Facebook or an Amazon or a Google that are using the data not necessarily, I mean they are supporting the regular processes, but they're getting the valuation bump because of the potential. >> By selling it. >> Or selling it, or doing new businesses based on the data, not just the data in support of the current business. So is that part of your program as well, do you think? >> Absolutely, so we could do the same kind of ontology and value assessment for an Apple, Apple assesses value by keeping it close, and it's not like they're not exploiting data value, it's just that they're having everyone look into the closed garden, and that's very valuable. Facebook started that way with Facebook Circles way back when, and then they decided when they wanted to grow, they actually would start to share. And then it had some interesting consequences along the line. So you can actually look at both of those models as data valuation models. How much is it worth for an advertiser to get the insights about your customers, whether or not they're anonymized or not, and in certain contexts, so healthcare, you want it to be hyper-identifiable, you want it to be exactly that person. So that valuation is higher, with a higher correlation of every time that PII is associated with a treatment, to that specific person with the right name, and the same Jr. or Sr. or Mrs. or Dr., all of that correlated into one, now your value has gone up, whether you're selling that data or what you're selling is services into that data, which is that customer's needs and wants. >> And in doing this with customers, what's been the biggest surprise in terms of a value, a piece of value in the data that maybe just wasn't recognized, or kind of below the covers, or never really had the direct correlation or association that it should've had? >> Yeah, so I don't know if I'm going to directly answer it or I'm going to sidewind it, but I think my biggest surprise wasn't a surprise to me, it was a surprise to my customers. The customers thought we were going to assess their data so they could start selling it, or they could buy other data sources, combine it, enrich it, and then either sell it or get these new insights. >> Jeff: That's what they brought you in for. >> Yeah, I know, cute, right? Yeah, so I'm like "Okay." The aha moment, of course, is that first of all, the "Oh my God" moment in data rarely happens, sometimes in big research cases, you'll get an instance of some biometric that doesn't behave organically, but we're talking about human behavior here, so the "Aha, we should be selling phone data "to people with phones" should not be an aha, that's just bad marketing. So instead, the aha for me has been A, how eager and desperate people are for actually looking at this, I really thought this was going to be a much more steep hill to climb to say "Hey, data's an asset," I've been saying this for over 20 years now, and people are kind of like "Yeah, yeah, yeah." Now for the first time, I'm seeing people really want to get on board and look comprehensively, so I thought we'd be doing little skinny pilots, oh no, everyone wants to get all their data on board so they can start playing around with it. So that's been really a wake-up call for a privacy gal. >> Right, well it's kind of interesting, 'cause you're kind of at the tail end of the hype cycle on big data, with Hadoop, and all that that represented, it went up and down and nobody had-- >> Michelle: Well we thought more was more. >> We thought more was more, but we didn't have the skills to manage it, and there was a lot of issues. And so now you never hear about big data per say, but data's pervasive everywhere, data management is pervasive everywhere, and again, we see the crazy valuations based on database companies, that are clearly getting that. >> And data privacy companies, I mean look at the market in DC land, and any DCs that are looking at this, talk to mama, I know what to do. But we're seeing one feature companies blowing up in the marketplace right now, people really want to know how to handle the risk side as well as the value side. Am I doing the right thing, that's my number one thing that not CPOs are, because they all know how crazy it is out there, but it's chief financial officers are my number one customer. They want to know that they're doing the right thing, both in terms of investment, but also in terms of morality and ethics, am I doing the right thing, am I growing the right kind of business, and how much of my big data is paying me back, or going back to accountancy rules, the definition of a liability is an asset that is uncurated. So I can have a pencil factory, 'cause I sell pencils, and that's great, that's where I house my pencils, I go and I get, but if something happened and somehow the route driver disappeared, and that general manager went away, now I own a pencil factory that has holes in the roof, that has rotting merchandise, that kids can get into, and maybe the ceiling falls, there's a fire, all that is, if I'm not utilizing that asset, is a liability, and we're seeing real money coming out of the European Union, there was a hotel case where the data that they were hoarding wasn't wrong, it was about real people who had stayed at their hotels, it just was in the 90s. And so they were fined 14.5 million Euros for keeping stale data, an asset had turned into a liability, and that's why you're constantly balancing, is it value, is it risk, am I taking so much risk that I'm not compensating with value and vice versa, and I think that's the new aha moment of really looking at your data valuation. >> Yeah, and I think that was part of the big data thing too, where people finally realized it's not a liability, thinking about "I got to buy servers to store it, "and I got to buy storage, and I got to do all this stuff," and they'd just let it fall on the floor. It's not free, but it does have an asset value if you know what to do with it. So let's shift gears about privacy specifically, because obviously you are the queen of privacy. >> I like that, that's my new title. >> GDPR went down, and now we've got the California version of GDPR, love to get your update, did you happen to be here earlier for the keynotes, and there was a conversation on stage about the right to be forgotten. >> Jennifer: Oh dear god, now, tell me. >> And is it even possible, and a very esteemed group of panelists up there just talking about very simple instances where, I search on something that you did, and now I want to be forgotten. >> Did no one watch Back to the Future? Did we not watch that show? Back to the Future where all their limbs start disappearing? >> Yes, yes, it's hard to implement some of these things. >> This has been my exhaustion with the right to be forgotten since the beginning. Humanity has never desired a right to be forgotten. Now people could go from one village to the next and redo themselves, but not without the knowledge that they gained, and being who they were in the last village. >> Jeff: Speaking to people along the way. >> Right, you become a different entity along the way. So, the problem always was really, differential publicity. So, some dude doesn't pay back his debtors, he's called a bad guy, and suddenly, any time you Google him, or Bing him, Bing's still there, right? >> Jeff: I believe so. >> Okay, so you could Bing someone, I guess, and then that would be the first search term, that was the harm, was saying that your past shouldn't always come back to haunt you. And so what we try to do is use this big, soupy term that doesn't exist in philosophy, in art, the Chimea Roos had a great right to be forgotten plan. See how that went down? >> That was not very pleasant. >> No, it was not pleasant, because what happens is, you take out knowledge when you try to look backwards and say "Well, we're going to keep this piece and that," we are what we are, I'm a red hot mess, but I'm a combination of my red hot messes, and some of the things I've learned are based on that. So there's a philosophical debate, but then there's also the pragmatic one of how do you fix it, who fixes it, and who gets to decide whose right it is to be forgotten? >> And what is the goal, that's probably the most important thing, what is the goal that we're trying to achieve, what is the bad thing that we're trying to avoid, versus coming up with some grandiose idea that probably is not possible, much less practical. >> There's a suit against the Catholic Church right now, I don't know if you heard this, and they're not actually in Europe, they live in Vatican City, but there's a suit against, about the right to be forgotten, if I decide I'm no longer Catholic, I'm not doing it, Mom, I'm hearing you, then I should be able to go to the church and erase my baptismal records and all the rest. >> Jeff: Oh, I hadn't heard that one. >> I find it, first of all, as someone who is culturally Catholic, I don't know if I can be as saintly as I once was, as a young child. What happens if my husband decides to not be Catholic anymore? What happens if I'm not married anymore, but now my marriage certificate is gone from the Catholic Church? Are my children bastards now? >> Michelle's going deep. >> What the hell? Literally, what the hell? So I think it's the unintended consequence without, this goes back to our formula, is the data value of deletion proportionate to the data risk, and I would say the right to be forgotten is like this. Now having an indexability or an erasability of a one-time thing, or, I'll give you another corner case, I've done a little bit of thinking, so you probably shouldn't have asked me about this question, but, in the US, when there's a domestic abuse allegation, or someone calls 911, the police officers have to stay safe, and so typically they just take everybody down to the station, men and women. Guess who are most often the aggressors? Usually the dudes. But guess who also gets a mugshot and fingerprints taken? The victim of the domestic abuse. That is technically a public record, there's never been a trial, that person may or may not ever be charged for any offense at all, she just was there, in her own home, having the crap beat out of her. Now she turns her life around, she leaves her abusers, and it can happen to men too, but I'm being biased. And then you do a Google search, and the first thing you find is a mugshot of suspected violence. Are you going to hire that person? Probably not. >> Well, begs a whole discussion, this is the generation where everything's been documented all along the way, so whether they choose or not choose or want or don't want, and how much of it's based on surveillance cameras that you didn't even know. I thought you were going to say, and then you ask Alexa, "Can you please give me the recording "of what really went down?" Which has also been done, it has happened, it has happened, actually, which then you say "Hm, well, is having the data worth the privacy risk "to actually stop the perp from continuing the abuse?" >> Exactly, and one of my age-old mantras, there's very few things that rhyme, but this one does, but if you can't protect, do not collect. So if you're collecting all these recordings in the domestic, think about how you're going to protect. >> There's other people that should've hired you on that one. We won't go there. >> So much stuff to do. >> All right Michelle, but unfortunately we have to leave it there, but thank you for stopping by, I know it's kind of not a happy ending. But good things with DrumWave, so congratulations, we continue to watch the story evolve, and I'm sure it'll be nothing but phenomenal success. >> It's going to be a good time. >> All right, thanks a lot Michelle. She's Michelle, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE, we're at RSA 2020 in San Francisco, thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (techno music)

>>long from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back to the Cube. Here live in Las Vegas for aws reinvent I'm John for a devil on the ads, always extracting the signal from the noise. We're here for 1/7 reinvent of the eight years that they've had at what a wave. One of the biggest waves is the modernization of procurement, the modernization of business, commercial business and the rapid acceleration of public sector. We're here with the chief of public sector for AWS. Teresa Carlson, vice president publics that globally great to have you >>so great to have the Q begin this year. We appreciate you being here, >>so we're just seeing so much acceleration of modernization. Even in the commercial side, 80 talks about transformation. It's just a hard core on the public sector side. You have so many different areas transforming faster because they haven't transformed before. That's correct. This is a lot of change. What's changed the most for you in your business? >>Well, again, I'll be here 10 years this mad that A B s and my eighth reinvent, and what really changed, which was very exciting this year, is on Monday. We had 550 international government executives here from 40 countries who were talking about their modernization efforts at every level. Now again, think about that. 40 different governments, 550 executives. We had a fantastic day for them planned. It was really phenomenal because the way that these international governments or think about their budget, how much are they going to use that for maintaining? And they want to get that lesson last. Beckett for Modernization The Thin John It's a Beckett for innovation so that they continue not only modernized, but they're really looking at innovation cycles. So that's a big one. And then you heard from somewhere customers at the breakfast this morning morning from from a T. F. As part of the Department of Justice. What they're doing out. I'll call to back on firearms. They completely made you the cloud. They got rid of 20 years of technical debt thio the Veterans Administration on what they're digging for V A benefits to educational institutions like our mighty >>nose, and he had on stages Kino, Cerner, which the health care companies and what struck me about that? I think it relates to your because I want to get your reaction is that the health care is such an acute example that everyone can relate to rising costs. So cloud helping reduce costs increase the efficiencies and patient care is a triple win. The same thing happens in public sector. There's no place to hide anymore. You have a bona fide efficiencies that could come right out of the gate with cloud plus innovation. And it's happening in all the sectors within the public sector. >>So true. Well, Cerner is a great example because they won the award at V a Veteran's administration to do the whole entire medical records modernization. So you have a company on stage that's commercial as I met, commercial as they are public sector that are going into these large modernization efforts. And as you sit on these air, not easy. This takes focus and leadership and a real culture change to make these things happen. >>You know, the international expansion is impressive. We saw each other in London. We did the health care drill down at your office is, of course, a national health. And then you guys were in Bahrain, and what I deserve is it's not like these organizations. They're way behind. I mean, especially the ones that it moved to. The clouds are moving really fast. So well, >>they don't have as much technical debt internationally. It's what we see here in the U. S. So, like I was just in Africa and you know what we talked about digitizing paper. Well, there's no technology on that >>end >>there. It's kind of exciting because they can literally start from square one and get going. And there's a really hunger and the need to make that happen. So it's different for every country in terms of where they are in their cloud journey. >>So I want to ask you about some of the big deals. I'll see Jet eyes in the news, and you can't talk about it because it's in protest and little legal issues. But you have a lot of big deals that you've done. You share some color commentary on from the big deals and what it really means. >>Yeah, well, first of all, let me just say with Department of Defense, Jet are no jet. I We have a very significant business, you know, doing work at every part of different defense. Army, Navy, Air Force in the intelligence community who has a mission for d o d terminus a t o N g eight in a row on And we are not slowing down in D. O d. We had, like, 250 people at a breakfast. Are Lantian yesterday giving ideas on what they're doing and sharing best practices around the fence. So we're not slowing down in D. O d. We're really excited. We have amazing partners. They're doing mission work with us. But in terms of some really kind of fend, things have happened. We did a press announcement today with Finn Rat, the financial regulatory authority here in the U. S. That regulates markets at this is the largest financial transactions you'll ever see being processed and run on the cloud. And the program is called Cat Consolidated Audit Trail. And if you remember the flash crash and the markets kind of going crazy from 2000 day in 2008 when it started, Finneran's started on a journey to try to understand why these market events were happening, and now they have once have been called CAT, which will do more than 100 billion market points a day that will be processed on the cloud. And this is what we know of right now, and they'll be looking for indicators of nefarious behavior within the markets. And we'll look for indicators on a continuous basis. Now what? We've talked about it. We don't even know what we don't know yet because we're getting so much data, we're going to start processing and crunching coming out of all kinds of groups that they're working with, that this is an important point even for Finn rep. They're gonna be retiring technical debt that they have. So they roll out Cat. They'll be retiring other systems, like oats and other programs that they >>just say so that flash crash is really important. Consolidated, honest, because the flash crash, we'll chalk it up to a glitch in the system. Translation. We don't really know what happened. Soto have a consolidated auto trail and having the data and the capabilities, I understand it is really, really important for transparency and confidence in the >>huge and by the way, thinner has been working with us since 2014. They're one of our best partners and are prolific users of the cloud. And I will tell you it's important that we have industries like thin red regulatory authorities, that air going in and saying, Look, we couldn't possibly do what we're doing without cloud computing. >>Tell me about the technical debt because I like this conversation is that we talk about in the commercial side and developer kind of thinking. Most businesses start ups, Whatever. What is technical debt meet in public sector? Can you be specific? >>Well, it's years and years of legacy applications that never had any modernization associated with them in public sector. You know now, because you've talked about these procurement, your very best of your very savvy now public sector >>like 1995 >>not for the faint of heart, for sure that when you do procurement over the years when they would do something they wouldn't build in at new innovations or modernizations. So if you think about if you build a data center today a traditional data center, it's outdated. Tomorrow, the same thing with the procurement. By the time that they delivered on those requirements. They were outdated. So technical debt then has been built up years of on years of not modernizing, just kind of maintaining a status quo with no new insides or analytics. You couldn't add any new tooling. So that is where you see agencies like a T F. That has said, Wow, if I'm gonna if I'm gonna have a modern agency that tracks things like forensics understands the machine learning of what's happening in justice and public safety, I need to have the most modern tools. And I can't do that on an outdated system. So that's what we kind of call technical death that just maintains that system without having anything new that you're adding to >>their capabilities lag. Everything's products bad. Okay, great. Thanks for definite. I gotta ask you about something that's near and dear to our heart collaboration. If you look at the big successes in the world and within Amazon Quantum Caltex partnering on the quantum side, you've done a lot of collaboration with Cal Cal Poly for ground station Amazon Educate. You've been very collaborative in your business, and that's a continuing to be a best practice you have now new things like the cloud innovation centers. Talk about that dynamic and how collaboration has become an important part of your business model. >>What we use their own principles from Amazon. We got building things in our plan. Innovation centers. We start out piloting those two to see, Could they work? And it's really a public private partnership between eight MPs and universities, but its universities that really want to do something. And Cal Poly's a great example. Arizona State University A great example. The number one most innovative university in the US for like, four years in a row. And what we do is we go in and we do these public sector challenges. So the collaboration happens. John, between the public sector Entity, university with students and us, and what we bring to the table is technical talent, air technology and our mechanisms and processes, like they're working backwards processes, and they were like, We want you to bring your best and brightest students. Let's bring public sector in the bowl. They bring challenges there, riel that we can take on, and then they can go back and absorb, and they're pretty exciting. I today I talked about we have over 44 today that we've documented were working at Cal Poly. The one in Arizona State University is about smart cities. And then you heard We're announcing new ones. We've got two in France, one in Germany now, one that we're doing on cybersecurity with our mighty in Australia to be sitting bata rain. So you're going to see us Add a lot more of these and we're getting the results out of them. So you know we won't do if we don't like him. But right now we really like these partnerships. >>Results are looking good. What's going on with >>you? All right. And I'll tell you why. That why they're different, where we are taking on riel public sector issues and challenges that are happening, they're not kind of pie in the sky. We might get there because those are good things to do. But what we want to do is let's tackle things that are really homelessness, opioid crisis, human sex trafficking, that we're seeing things that are really in these communities and those air kind of grand. But then we're taking on areas like farming where we talked about Can we get strawberries rotting on the vine out of the field into the market before you lose billions of dollars in California. So it's things like that that were so its challenges that are quick and riel. And the thing about Cloud is you can create an application and solution and test it out very rapidly without high cost of doing that. No technical Dan, >>you mentioned Smart Cities. I just attended a session. Marty Walsh, the mayor of Boston's, got this 50 50 years smart city plan, and it's pretty impressive, but it's a heavy lift. So what do you see going on in smart cities? And you really can't do it without the cloud, which was kind of my big input cloud. Where's the data? What do you say, >>cloud? I O. T is a big part at these. All the centers that Andy talked about yesterday in his keynote and why the five G partnerships are so important. These centers, they're gonna be everywhere, and you don't even know they really exist because they could be everywhere. And if you have the five G capabilities to move those communications really fast and crypt them so you have all the security you need. This is game changing, but I'll give you an example. I'll go back to the kids for a minute at at Arizona State University, they put Io TI centers everywhere. They no traffic patterns. Have any parking slots? Airfield What Utilities of water, if they're trash bins are being filled at number of seats that are being taken up in stadiums. So it's things like that that they're really working to understand. What are the dynamics of their city and traffic flow around that smart city? And then they're adding things on for the students like Alexis skills. Where's all the activity? So you're adding all things like Alexa Abs, which go into a smart city kind of dynamic. We're not shop. Where's the best activities for about books, for about clothes? What's the pizza on sale tonight? So on and then two things like you saw today on Singapore, where they're taking data from all different elements of agencies and presenting that bad to citizen from their child as example Day one of a birth even before, where's all the service is what I do? How do I track these things? How do I navigate my city? to get all those service is the same. One can find this guy things they're not. They're really and they're actually happening. >>Seems like they're instrumented a lot of the components of the city learning from that and then deciding. Okay, where do we double down on where do we place? >>You're making it Every resilient government, a resilient town. I mean, these were the things that citizens can really help take intro Web and have a voice in doing >>threes. I want to say congratulations to your success. I know it's not for the faint of heart in the public sector of these days, a lot of blockers, a lot of politics, a lot of government lockers and the old procurement system technical debt. I mean, Windows 95 is probably still in a bunch of PCs and 50 45 fighters. 15 fighters. Oh, you've got a great job. You've been doing a great job and riding that wave. So congratulations. >>Well, I'll just say it's worth it. It is worth it. We are committed to public sector, and we really want to see everyone from our war fighters. Are citizens have the capabilities they need. So >>you know, you know that we're very passionate this year about going in the 2020 for the Cube and our audience to do a lot more tech for good programming. This'll is something that's near and dear to your heart as well. You have a chance to shape technology. >>Yes, well, today you saw we had a really amazing not for profit on stage with It's called Game Changer. And what we found with not for profits is that technology can be a game changer if they use it because it makes their mission dollars damage further. And they're an amazing father. And send a team that started game changer at. Taylor was in the hospital five years with terminal cancer, and he and his father, through these five years, kind of looked around. Look at all these Children what they need and they started. He is actually still here with us today, and now he's a young adult taking care of other young Children with cancer, using gaming technologies with their partner, twitch and eight MPs and helping analyze and understand what these young affected Children with cancer need, both that personally and academically and the tools he has He's helping really permit office and get back and it's really hard, Warren says. I was happy. My partner, Mike Level, who is my Gran's commercial sales in business, and I ran public Sector Day. We're honored to give them at a small token of our gift from A to B s to help support their efforts. >>Congratulates, We appreciate you coming on the Cube sharing the update on good luck into 2020. Great to see you 10 years at AWS day one. Still, >>it's day one. I feel like I started >>it like still, like 10 o'clock in the morning or like still a day it wasn't like >>I still wake up every day with the jump in my staff and excited about what I'm gonna do. And so I am. You know, I am really excited that we're doing and like Andy and I say we're just scratching the surface. >>You're a fighter. You are charging We love you, Great executive. You're the chief of public. Get a great job. Great, too. Follow you and ride the wave with Amazon and cover. You guys were documenting history. >>Yeah, exactly. We're in happy holidays to you all and help seeing our seventh and 20 >>so much. Okay, Cube coverage here live in Las Vegas. This is the cube coverage. Extracting the signals. Wanna shout out to eight of us? An intel for putting on the two sets without sponsorship, we wouldn't be able to support the mission of the Cube. I want to thank them. And thank you for watching with more after this short break.

>> live from New York. It's the Q covering AWS Global Summit 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web service, is >> welcome back here in New York City on stew Minimum. My co host is Corey Quinn. In the keynote this morning, Warner Vogel's made some new announcements what they're doing and also brought out a couple of customers who are local and really thrilled and excited to have on the program the C i O and E V P from Finn Ra here in New York City. Steve Randall, thanks so much for joining us. You're welcome. Thank you. All right, so, you know, quite impressive. You know when when I say one of those misunderstood words out there to talk about scale and you talk about speed and you know, you were you know, I'm taking so many notes in your keynote this 1 500,000 compute note. Seven terabytes worth of new data daily with half a trillion validation checks per day, some pretty impressive scale, and therefore, you know, it's I t is not the organ that kind of sits in the basement, and the business doesn't think about it business and I t need to be in lobster. So, you know, I think most people are familiar with in Rome. But maybe give us the kind of bumper sticker as Thio What dinner is today and you know, the >> the organization. Yeah, I started it Fender and 2013. I thought I was gonna come into a typical regulator, which is, as you alluded to technologies, kind of in the basement. Not very important, not strategic. And I realized very quickly two things. Number one, The team was absolutely talented. A lot of the people that we've got on her team came from start ups and other technology companies. Atypical financial service is and the second thing is we had a major big data challenge on our hands. And so the decision to go to the cloud S I started in March 2013. By July of that year, I was already having dialogue with our board of directors about having to go to the cloud in orderto handle the data. >> Yeah, so you know, big data was supposed to be that bit flip that turned that. Oh, my God. I have so much data to Oh, yea, I can monetize and do things with their data. So give us a little bit of that, That data journey And what? That that you talk about the flywheel? The fact that you've got inside Finneran. >> Yeah. So we knew that we needed the way were running at that time on data warehouse appliances from E, M. C. And IBM. And which a data warehouse appliance. You go back 10 15 years. That was where big data was running. But those machines are vertically scalable, and when you hit the top of the scale, then you've got to buy another bigger one, which might not be available. So public cloud computing is all about horizontal scale at commodity prices to things that those those data data warehouse appliance didn't have. They were vertical and proprietary, inexpensive. And so the key thing was to come up to select the cloud vendor between Google, IBM, You know, the usual suspects and architect our applications properly so that we wouldn't be overly vendor dependent on the cloud provider and locked in if you will, and that we could have flexibility to use commodity software. So we standardized in conjunction with our move to the public cloud on open source software, which we continue today. So no proprietary software for the most part running in the cloud. And we were just very smart about architect ing our systems at that point in time to make sure that those opportunities prevailed. And the other thing I would say, this kind of the secret of our success Is it because we were such early adopters we were in the financial service industry and a regulator toe boots that we had engineering access to the cloud providers and the big, big date open source software vendors. So we actually had the engineers from eight of us and other firms coming in to help us learn how to do it, to do it right. And that's been part of our culture ever since. >> One thing that was, I guess a very welcome surprise is normally these keynotes tend to fall into almost reductive tropes where first, we're gonna have some Twitter for pet style start up talking about all the higher level stuff they're doing, and then we're gonna have a large, more serious company. Come in and talk about how we moved of'em from our data center into the cloud gay Everyone clap instead, there was it was very clear. You're using higher level, much higher level service is on top of the cloud provider. It's not just running the M somewhere else in the same way you would on premise. Was that a transitional step that you went through or did you effectively when you went all in, start leveraging those higher service is >> okay. It's a great question. And ah, differentiator for us versus a lot. A lot of the large organizations with a legacy footprint that would not be practical to rewrite. We had outsourced I t entirely in the nineties E T s and it was brought back in source in in house early in this decade. And so we had kind of a fresh, fresh environment. Fresh people, no legacy, really other than the data warehouse appliances. So we had a spring a springboard to rewrite our abs in an agile way to be fully cloud enabled. So we work with eight of us. We work with Cloudera. We work with port works with all the key vendors at that time and space to figure out how to write Ah wraps so they could take most advantage of what the cloud was offering at that time. And that continues to prevail today. >> That that's a great point because, you know so often it's that journey to cloud. But it's that application modernization, that journey. Right. So bring us in little inside there is. You know how it is. You know, what expertise did Finn Ra have there? I mean, you don't want to be building applications. It is the open stuff source. The things wasn't mature enough. How much did they have toe help work, you know, Would you call it? You know, collaboration? >> Yeah. The first year was hard because I would have, you know, every high performance database vendor, and I see a number of them here today. I'm sure they're paddling their AWS version now, but they had a a private, proprietary database version. They're saying if you want to handle the volumes that you're seeing and predicting you really need a proprietary, they wouldn't call it proprietary. But it was essentially ah, very unique solution point solution that would cause vendor dependency. And so and then and then my architects internally, we're saying, No way, Wanna go open source because that's where the innovation and evolution is gonna be fastest. And we're not gonna have vendor Lock in that decision that that took about a year to solidify. But once we went that way, we never looked back. So from that standpoint, that was a good bad, and it made sense. The other element of your question is, how How much of this did we do on our own, rely on vendors again? The kind of dirty little secret of our beginnings here is that we ll average the engineer, you know, So typically a firm would get the sales staff, right. We got the engineers we insisted on in orderto have them teach our engineers how to do these re architectures to do it right. Um and we use that because we're in the financial service industry as a regulator, right? So they viewed us as a reference herbal account that would be very valuable in their portfolio. So in many regards, that was way scratch each other's back. But ultimately, the point isn't that their engineers trained our engineers who trained other engineers. And so when I when I did the, uh um keynote at the reinvented 2016 sixteen one of my pillars of our success was way didn't rely overly on vendors. In the end, we trained 2016 1 5 to 600 of our own staff on how to do cloud architectures correctly. >> I think at this point it's very clear that you're something of an extreme outlier in that you integrate by the nature of what you do with very large financial institutions. And these historically have not been firms that have embraced the cloud with speed and enthusiasm that Fenner has. Have you found yourself as you're going in this all in on the cloud approach that you're having trouble getting some of those other larger financial firms to meet you there, or is that not really been a concern based upon fenders position with an ecosystem? >> Um, I would say that five years ago, very rare, I would say, You know, we've had a I made a conscious effort to be very loud in the process of conferences about our journey because it has helped us track talent. People are coming to work for us as a senior financial service. The regulator that wouldn't have considered it five years ago, and they're doing it because they want to be part of this experience that we're having, but it's a byproduct of being loud, and the press means that a lot of firms are saying, Well, look what Fender is doing in the cloud Let's go talk to them So we've had probably at this 50.200 firms that have come defender toe learn from our experience. We've got this two hour presentation that kind of goes through all the aspects of how to do it right, what, what to avoid, etcetera, etcetera. And, um, you know, I would say now the company's air coming into us almost universally believe it's the right direction. They're having trouble, whether it's political issues, technology dat, you name it for making the mo mentum that we've made. But unlike 45 years ago, all of them recognize that it's it's the direction to go. That's almost undisputed at this point. And you're opening comment. Yeah, we're very much an outlier. We've moved 97 plus percent of our APS 99 plus percent of our data. We are I mean, the only thing that hasn't really been moved to the cloud at this point our conscious decisions, because those applications that are gonna die on the vine in the data center or they don't make sense to move to the cloud for whatever reason. >> Okay, You've got almost all your data in the cloud and you're using open source technology. Is Cory said if I was listening to a traditional financial service company, you know, they're telling me all the reasons that for governance and compliance that they're not going to do it. So you know, why do you feel safe putting your your data in the cloud? >> Uh, well, we've looked at it. So, um, I spent my first year of Finn run 2013 early, 2014 but mostly 2013. Convincing our board of directors that moving our most critical applications to the public cloud was going to be no worse from the information security standpoint than what we're doing in our private data centers. That presentation ultimately made it to other regulators, major firms on the street industry, lobbyist groups like sifma nephi. AP got a lot of air time, and it basically made the point using logic and reasoning, that going to the cloud and doing it right not doing it wrong, but doing it right is at least is secure from a physical logical standpoint is what we were previously doing. And then we went down that route. I got the board approval in 2015. We started looking at it and realizing, Wait a minute, what we're doing here encrypting everything, using micro segmentation, we would never. And I aren't doing this in our private data center. It's more secure. And at that point in time, a lot of the analysts in our industry, like Gardner Forrester, started coming out with papers that basically said, Hey, wait a minute, this perception the cloud is not as safe is on Prem. That's wrong. And now we look at it like I can't imagine doing what we're doing now in a private data center. There's no scale. It's not a secure, etcetera, etcetera. >> And to some extent, when you're dealing with banks and start a perspective now and they say, Oh, we don't necessarily trust the cloud. Well, that's interesting. Your regulator does. In other cases, some tax authorities do. You provided tremendous value just by being as public as you have been that really starts taking the wind out of the sails of the old fear uncertainty and doubt. Arguments around cloud. >> Yeah, I mean, doubts around. It's not secure. I don't have control over it. If you do it right, those are those are manageable risks, I would argue. In some cases, you've got more risk not doing it. But I will caution everything needs to be on the condition that you've got to do it right. Sloppy migration in the cloud could make you less secure. So there there are principles that need to be followed as part of >> this. So Steve doing it right. You haven't been sitting still. One of the things that really caught my attention in the keynote was you said the last four years you've done three re architectures and what I want. Understand? You said each time you got a better price performance, you know, you do think so. How do you make sure you do it right? Yet have flexibility both in an architect standpoint, and, you know, don't you have to do a three year reserves intense for some of these? How do you make sure you have the flexibility to be able to take advantage of you? Said the innovation in automation. >> Yeah. Keep moving forward with. That's Ah, that's a deep technical question. So I'm gonna answer it simply and say that we've architected the software and hardware stack such. There's not a lot of co dependency between them, and that's natural. I t. One on one principle, but it's easier to do in the cloud, particularly within AWS, who kind of covers the whole stacks. You're not going to different vendors that aren't integrated. That helps a lot. But you also have architect it, right? And then once you do that and then you automate your software development life cycle process, it makes switching out anyone component of that stack pretty easy to do and highly automated, in some cases completely automated. And so when new service is our new versions of products, new classes of machines become available. We just slip him in, and the term I use this morning mark to market with Moore's Law. That's what we aspire to do to have the highest levels of price performance achievable at the time that it's made available. That wasn't possible previously because you would go by ah hardware kit and then you'd appreciate it for five years on your books at the end of those five years, it would get kind of have scale and reliability problems. And then you go spend tens of millions of dollars on a new kit and the whole cycle would start over again. That's not the case here. >> Machine learning something you've been dipping into. Tell us the impact, what that has and what you see. Going forward. >> It's early, but we're big believers in machine learning. And there's a lot of applications for at Venera in our various investigatory and regulatory functions. Um, again, it's early, but I'm a big believer that the that the computer stored scale, commodity costs in the public cloud could be tapped into and lever it to make Aye aye and machine learning. Achieve what everybody has been talking about it, hoping to achieve the last several decades. We're using it specifically right now in our surveillance is for market manipulation and fraud. So fraudsters coming in and manipulating prices in the stock market to take advantage of trading early days but very promising in terms of what it's delivered so far. >> Steve want to give you the final word. You know, your thank you. First of all for being vocal on this. It sounds like there's a lot of ways for people to understand and see. You know what Fenner has done and really be a you know, an early indicator. So, you know, give us a little bit. Look forward, you know what more? Where's Finn Ra going next on their journey. And what do you want to see more from, You know, Amazon and the ecosystem around them to make your life in life, your peers better. >> Yes. So some of the kind of challenges that Amazon is working with us and partnering Assan is getting Ah Maur, automated into regional fell over our our industries a little bit queasy about having everything run with a relatively tight proximity in the East Coast region. And while we replicate our data to the to the other East region, we think AIM or co production environment, like we have across the availability zones within the East, would be looked upon with Maur advocacy of that architecture. From a regulatory standpoint, that would be one another. One would be, um, one of the big objections to moving to a public cloud vendor like Amazon is the vendor dependency and so making sure that we're not overly technically dependent on them is something that I think is a shared responsibility. The view that you could go and run a single application across multiple cloud vendors. I don't think anybody has been able to successfully do that because of the differences between providers. You could run one application in one vendor and another application in another vendor. That's fine, but that doesn't really achieve the vendor dependency question and then going forward for Finn or I mean, riel beauty is if you architected your applications right without really doing any work at all, you're going to continuously get the benefits of price performance as they go forward. You're not kind of locked into a status quo, So even without doing much of any new work on our applications, we're gonna continue to get the benefits. That's probably outside of the elastic, massive scale that we take advantage of. That's probably the biggest benefit of this whole journey. >> Well, Steve Randall really appreciate >> it. >> Thank you so much for sharing the journey of All right for Cory cleanups to minimum back with lots more here from eight Summit in New York City. Thanks for watching the cue

>> live from Washington D. C. It's the Cube covering a ws public sector summit by Amazon Web services. >> Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the cubes Live coverage of a ws Public Sector summit here in our nation's capital. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We're joined by Raghu Rahman. He is the director of Fin Row, the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority. Thank you so much for coming on the Cube >> fighter back. Good afternoon, but happy to be here. >> So we're angry. This is the 10th annual public sector. Somebody should have said so Tell us a little bit about Finn Ra and what you do. They're >> sure Fender itself is the financial industry Regulatory authority way our private sector, not for profit institutions. Our mission is investor protection on market integrity. Way our member funded on DH. We have a member driven board board of directors and we engage in ensuring that all the stock market operations in the U. S. Capital markets play with rules. So that's the essence of who we are. >> And all of those stakeholders have a vested interest in making sure their rivals are also playing bythe. So you're here giving a presentation on fraud detection, using machine learning and artificial intelligence. That's right. What was So what were you saying? >> So, Brenda, we have a very deliberate technology strategy on We constantly keep pace with technology in order to affect our business in the best possible way, way. Always are looking for a means to get more efficient and more effective and use our funding for the best possible business value so to that, and wear completely in the cloud for a lot off our market regulation operations. All the applications are in the clouds. We, in fact, we were one of the early adopters of the cloud. From that perspective, all of our big data operations were fully operational in the cloud by 2016 itself. That was itself a two year project that we started in 40 14 then from 2016 were being working with machine language on recently. Over the past six months or so, we've been working with neural networks. So this was an opportunity for us to share what? Where we have bean, where we're coming from, where we're going with the intent that whatever we do by way of principles can be adopted by any other enterprise. We're looking to share our journey on to encourage others to adopt technology. That's really what why we do this >> and I want to dig into the presentation a little bit. But can you just set the scene for our viewers about what kinds of how big a problem fraud is with these financial institutions and how much money is on the table here? >> Well, I don't want to get you to the actual dollar figures, because each dimension off it comes up with a different aspect to it. Waken say that in full in federal, we have a full caseload year after year, decade after decade that end up with multiple millions of dollars worth of fines just on the civil cases alone. And then there are, of course, multibillion dollar worth problems that we read in the media cases going as far back as Bernie Madoff. Case is going through the different banking systems so that our various kinds of fraud across the different financial sectors, of course, we're focused on the capital markets alone. We don't do anything with regard to banking or things of that nature, But even in our own case, we franchise composed of nearly 33 100 people on all of us, engaging the fulltime task of ensuring that markets are fair for the investors on for the other participants, it's a big deal. >> So in your in your presentation, you told the story of two of your colleagues who are facing different kinds of challenges to sort to make your story come alive. Tell our viewers a little bit about about their challenges. >> We spoke about Brad, who is an expert. He's an absolute wizard when it comes to market regulation, and he's being doing this for a long time on DH What I shared with the members of the audience earlier today. Wass He can probably look ATT market, even data on probably tell you what the broker had for breakfast. >> That >> scary good on. We also shared the story about Jamie, who is in the member supervision division offender, a wicked, smart and extensive experience. So these are the kind of dedicated people that we have a fender on guy took up to Rhea life use cases sort of questions that they face. So in the case of Brad, it is always a question of Hey, we're good. But how do we get better? What is the unknown unknown there? The volume of transactions in the market keeps going up. How do we then end up with a situation where we can do effective surveillance in the market on detect the behaviors that are not off interest that are not for doctor? That might be even. Don't write manipulated. How do we make sure that way? Got it all, so to speak? That's Brad's thing. >> That idea about these? No, these unknown nun note Because we know we have no no known unknowns with the unknown unknowns are even scarier. >> Exactly. They are, and we want to shed light on that for ourselves and make sure that the markets are really fair for everybody to operate him. That is where use of the latest technologies helps us get better and better at it. To reduce the number of unknown unknowns to shed light on the entirety of market activities on toe, perform effective surveillance. So that was a just off our conversation today. How we have gotten better in the past 45 years, how machine language machine learning based technologies have helped us how artificial intelligence that we started working with specifically, neural networks have started helping us even further. >> Okay, okay. And then Jamie had a problem, too. >> In Jimmy's case. Member supervision, if you will. The problem is off a different context and character. They're still volumes of data. We still receive more than 1,000,000 individual pieces of document every year that we work with. But in her case, the important aspect of it is that it is unstructured data. It makes sense to humans. It is in plain English, but the machines, it's really difficult. So over the past two years, way have created an entirely new text analytics platform on that helps us parts through hundreds of thousands of different documents. Those could come from e mails it to come from war documents, spreadsheets, evenhanded and documents. We can go through all of those extract meaningful information, automatically summarized them, even have measures off confidence that the machine will imprint upon it to say how confident I am. I that this is off relevance to you. It will imprint that. And then it represented Jamie for her toe. Use her judgment and expertise to make a final call. One thing that we are really conscious about is way. Don't let algorithms completely take everything through. We always have a human. So we think of a I as really assistive intelligence on. We bring that to a fact for our business, >> and I think that that's a really key there, too, for the for the employees is to know that this is this is this's taking away some of their more manual, more boring tests and actually freeing them up to do the more creative, analytical problem solving >> you hit you. I think you hit that nail right on the head. All the tedious work the machine bus on. Then it leaves humans to do like you said, Absolutely the creative, the inter toe on the final judgment call. I think that's a great system. >> How much to these solutions cost way >> generally are not pricing these things individually, however overall, one of the things that we did with the cloud was actually reduce our overall cost ofthe technology. So from that perspective, we don't look at Costas, the primary driver, although many times these things do end up costing less than the prior system that we would be in. However, the benefits that offer to our clientele, the benefit that it offers to our business, to the people that are investors in the stock market, that is tremendous, and that has a lot of value for us. >> So what is next for Finneran? I mean, this is This is a really moment for so many industries in terms of the the rise of cyber threats, the end and fraud being such a huge problem. Privacy thes air the financial services industry more than, I guess maybe is equal to healthcare. This's really sensitive stuff we're talking about here. What what are some of the things that you have on the horizon? What are some of the things that you're hearing from your members? >> So all of our members treat data security really, really special on really carefully on wear, very deliberate and very conscious about how we treat the data that is interested to us way have to obligations. One is to treat it securely. The other is to extract appropriate insights from it because that's the purpose of why we're being interested with the data. Wait, take both of those dimensions very seriously. Way have an entire infrastructure organization. It's composed off experts in the field way, headed by a chief information security officer with a large team that looks at multi layered security right from the application defending itself all the way to perimeter security. We go off that we have extensive identity and access management systems. We also have an extensive program to combat insider tracks. So this type of multi layer security is what helps us keep the data secure. >> And >> every day we do notice that there are additional track factors that get exposed. So we keep ourselves on the edge in terms ofthe working with all the vendors that we partner with in working with the latest technologies to protect our data as an example, all of our data in the cloud is completely encrypted with high encryption, and it is encrypted both at rest. I'm during flight so that even in the rare case that someone has access to something is gibberish. So that's the intent of the encryption himself. So that is the extent to which we take things very seriously. >> I want to ask you to, but the technology backlash that we're seeing so much and you're you live here so you really know about the climate that does that technology industries, air facing for so long. They were our national treasure and they still are considered it all in a lot of ways. The Amazons, the Googles, the facebooks of the world. But now we have a presidential candidates calling for the break up of big tech and and they And there's been a real souring on the part of the public of concerns about privacy. How What are your thoughts? What are you seeing? What are you hearing on the ground here in D. C? >> With specifically with regard to where we operate from Infanta? We've tried not to access or use any data. That is not for regulatory purpose. Wear Very careful about it. Way don't sprawl across and crawl across social media just on a general fishing expedition. We try not to do that. All of the data that we take in store on operate technology upon we are entitled to use it for by policy are my rules are my regulation for the specific purpose off our regulator activities. We take that very seriously. We try not to access data outside off what we have need for on. So we limit ourselves to the context and that, if you look at, is really what the public is trying to tell us, don't take our data and use it in ways that we did not really authorize you to do. So So the other thing is that franchise on our profit, not for not for profit institutions. We really have absolutely no interest beyond regulatory capability to use the data. We absolutely shut it down for any other use way are not so that way. We are very clear about what our mission is. Where we use our data, why we use it and stop. >> Great. Well, Raghu, thank you so much for coming on the Cube. It's been a pleasure talking to you. >> Thank you. Thank >> you. I'm Rebecca Knight. Please stay tuned for more of the cubes. Live coverage of the es W s public Sector summit here in Washington. D c. Stay tuned. >> Oh,