>>Welcome back to The Cube's coverage of Supercomputing Conference 2022, otherwise known as SC 22 here in Dallas, Texas. This is day three of our coverage, the final day of coverage here on the exhibition floor. I'm Dave Nicholson, and I'm here with my co-host, tech journalist extraordinaire, Paul Gillum. How's it going, >>Paul? Hi, Dave. It's going good. >>And we have a wonderful guest with us this morning, Dr. Panda from the Ohio State University. Welcome Dr. Panda to the Cube. >>Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot to >>Paul. I know you're, you're chopping at >>The bit, you have incredible credentials, over 500 papers published. The, the impact that you've had on HPC is truly remarkable. But I wanted to talk to you specifically about a product project you've been working on for over 20 years now called mva, high Performance Computing platform that's used by more than 32 organ, 3,200 organizations across 90 countries. You've shepherded this from, its, its infancy. What is the vision for what MVA will be and and how is it a proof of concept that others can learn from? >>Yeah, Paul, that's a great question to start with. I mean, I, I started with this conference in 2001. That was the first time I came. It's very coincidental. If you remember the Finman Networking Technology, it was introduced in October of 2000. Okay. So in my group, we were working on NPI for Marinette Quadrics. Those are the old technology, if you can recollect when Finman was there, we were the very first one in the world to really jump in. Nobody knew how to use Infin van in an HPC system. So that's how the Happy Project was born. And in fact, in super computing 2002 on this exhibition floor in Baltimore, we had the first demonstration, the open source happy, actually is running on an eight node infinite van clusters, eight no zeros. And that was a big challenge. But now over the years, I means we have continuously worked with all infinite van vendors, MPI Forum. >>We are a member of the MPI Forum and also all other network interconnect. So we have steadily evolved this project over the last 21 years. I'm very proud of my team members working nonstop, continuously bringing not only performance, but scalability. If you see now INFIN event are being deployed in 8,000, 10,000 node clusters, and many of these clusters actually use our software, stack them rapid. So, so we have done a lot of, like our focuses, like we first do research because we are in academia. We come up with good designs, we publish, and in six to nine months, we actually bring it to the open source version and people can just download and then use it. And that's how currently it's been used by more than 3000 orange in 90 countries. And, but the interesting thing is happening, your second part of the question. Now, as you know, the field is moving into not just hvc, but ai, big data, and we have those support. This is where like we look at the vision for the next 20 years, we want to design this MPI library so that not only HPC but also all other workloads can take advantage of it. >>Oh, we have seen libraries that become a critical develop platform supporting ai, TensorFlow, and, and the pie torch and, and the emergence of, of, of some sort of default languages that are, that are driving the community. How, how important are these frameworks to the, the development of the progress making progress in the HPC world? >>Yeah, no, those are great. I mean, spite our stencil flow, I mean, those are the, the now the bread and butter of deep learning machine learning. Am I right? But the challenge is that people use these frameworks, but continuously models are becoming larger. You need very first turnaround time. So how do you train faster? How do you do influencing faster? So this is where HPC comes in and what exactly what we have done is actually we have linked floor fighters to our happy page because now you see the MPI library is running on a million core system. Now your fighters and tenor four clan also be scaled to to, to those number of, large number of course and gps. So we have actually done that kind of a tight coupling and that helps the research to really take advantage of hpc. >>So if, if a high school student is thinking in terms of interesting computer science, looking for a place, looking for a university, Ohio State University, bruns, world renowned, widely known, but talk about what that looks like from a day on a day to day basis in terms of the opportunity for undergrad and graduate students to participate in, in the kind of work that you do. What is, what does that look like? And is, and is that, and is that a good pitch to for, for people to consider the university? >>Yes. I mean, we continuously, from a university perspective, by the way, the Ohio State University is one of the largest single campus in, in us, one of the top three, top four. We have 65,000 students. Wow. It's one of the very largest campus. And especially within computer science where I am located, high performance computing is a very big focus. And we are one of the, again, the top schools all over the world for high performance computing. And we also have very strength in ai. So we always encourage, like the new students who like to really work on top of the art solutions, get exposed to the concepts, principles, and also practice. Okay. So, so we encourage those people that wish you can really bring you those kind of experience. And many of my past students, staff, they're all in top companies now, have become all big managers. >>How, how long, how long did you say you've been >>At 31 >>Years? 31 years. 31 years. So, so you, you've had people who weren't alive when you were already doing this stuff? That's correct. They then were born. Yes. They then grew up, yes. Went to university graduate school, and now they're on, >>Now they're in many top companies, national labs, all over the universities, all over the world. So they have been trained very well. Well, >>You've, you've touched a lot of lives, sir. >>Yes, thank you. Thank >>You. We've seen really a, a burgeoning of AI specific hardware emerge over the last five years or so. And, and architectures going beyond just CPUs and GPUs, but to Asics and f PGAs and, and accelerators, does this excite you? I mean, are there innovations that you're seeing in this area that you think have, have great promise? >>Yeah, there is a lot of promise. I think every time you see now supercomputing technology, you see there is sometime a big barrier comes barrier jump. Rather I'll say, new technology comes some disruptive technology, then you move to the next level. So that's what we are seeing now. A lot of these AI chips and AI systems are coming up, which takes you to the next level. But the bigger challenge is whether it is cost effective or not, can that be sustained longer? And this is where commodity technology comes in, which commodity technology tries to take you far longer. So we might see like all these likes, Gaudi, a lot of new chips are coming up, can they really bring down the cost? If that cost can be reduced, you will see a much more bigger push for AI solutions, which are cost effective. >>What, what about on the interconnect side of things, obvi, you, you, your, your start sort of coincided with the initial standards for Infin band, you know, Intel was very, very, was really big in that, in that architecture originally. Do you see interconnects like RDMA over converged ethernet playing a part in that sort of democratization or commoditization of things? Yes. Yes. What, what are your thoughts >>There for internet? No, this is a great thing. So, so we saw the infinite man coming. Of course, infinite Man is, commod is available. But then over the years people have been trying to see how those RDMA mechanisms can be used for ethernet. And then Rocky has been born. So Rocky has been also being deployed. But besides these, I mean now you talk about Slingshot, the gray slingshot, it is also an ethernet based systems. And a lot of those RMA principles are actually being used under the hood. Okay. So any modern networks you see, whether it is a Infin and Rocky Links art network, rock board network, you name any of these networks, they are using all the very latest principles. And of course everybody wants to make it commodity. And this is what you see on the, on the slow floor. Everybody's trying to compete against each other to give you the best performance with the lowest cost, and we'll see whoever wins over the years. >>Sort of a macroeconomic question, Japan, the US and China have been leapfrogging each other for a number of years in terms of the fastest supercomputer performance. How important do you think it is for the US to maintain leadership in this area? >>Big, big thing, significantly, right? We are saying that I think for the last five to seven years, I think we lost that lead. But now with the frontier being the number one, starting from the June ranking, I think we are getting that leadership back. And I think it is very critical not only for fundamental research, but for national security trying to really move the US to the leading edge. So I hope us will continue to lead the trend for the next few years until another new system comes out. >>And one of the gating factors, there is a shortage of people with data science skills. Obviously you're doing what you can at the university level. What do you think can change at the secondary school level to prepare students better to, for data science careers? >>Yeah, I mean that is also very important. I mean, we, we always call like a pipeline, you know, that means when PhD levels we are expecting like this even we want to students to get exposed to, to, to many of these concerts from the high school level. And, and things are actually changing. I mean, these days I see a lot of high school students, they, they know Python, how to program in Python, how to program in sea object oriented things. Even they're being exposed to AI at that level. So I think that is a very healthy sign. And in fact we, even from Ohio State side, we are always engaged with all this K to 12 in many different programs and then gradually trying to take them to the next level. And I think we need to accelerate also that in a very significant manner because we need those kind of a workforce. It is not just like a building a system number one, but how do we really utilize it? How do we utilize that science? How do we propagate that to the community? Then we need all these trained personal. So in fact in my group, we are also involved in a lot of cyber training activities for HPC professionals. So in fact, today there is a bar at 1 1 15 I, yeah, I think 1215 to one 15. We'll be talking more about that. >>About education. >>Yeah. Cyber training, how do we do for professionals? So we had a funding together with my co-pi, Dr. Karen Tom Cook from Ohio Super Center. We have a grant from NASA Science Foundation to really educate HPT professionals about cyber infrastructure and ai. Even though they work on some of these things, they don't have the complete knowledge. They don't get the time to, to learn. And the field is moving so fast. So this is how it has been. We got the initial funding, and in fact, the first time we advertised in 24 hours, we got 120 application, 24 hours. We couldn't even take all of them. So, so we are trying to offer that in multiple phases. So, so there is a big need for those kind of training sessions to take place. I also offer a lot of tutorials at all. Different conference. We had a high performance networking tutorial. Here we have a high performance deep learning tutorial, high performance, big data tutorial. So I've been offering tutorials at, even at this conference since 2001. Good. So, >>So in the last 31 years, the Ohio State University, as my friends remind me, it is properly >>Called, >>You've seen the world get a lot smaller. Yes. Because 31 years ago, Ohio, in this, you know, of roughly in the, in the middle of North America and the United States was not as connected as it was to everywhere else in the globe. So that's, that's pro that's, I i it kind of boggles the mind when you think of that progression over 31 years, but globally, and we talk about the world getting smaller, we're sort of in the thick of, of the celebratory seasons where, where many, many groups of people exchange gifts for varieties of reasons. If I were to offer you a holiday gift, that is the result of what AI can deliver the world. Yes. What would that be? What would, what would, what would the first thing be? This is, this is, this is like, it's, it's like the genie, but you only get one wish. >>I know, I know. >>So what would the first one be? >>Yeah, it's very hard to answer one way, but let me bring a little bit different context and I can answer this. I, I talked about the happy project and all, but recently last year actually we got awarded an S f I institute award. It's a 20 million award. I am the overall pi, but there are 14 universities involved. >>And who is that in that institute? >>What does that Oh, the I ici. C e. Okay. I cycle. You can just do I cycle.ai. Okay. And that lies with what exactly what you are trying to do, how to bring lot of AI for masses, democratizing ai. That's what is the overall goal of this, this institute, think of like a, we have three verticals we are working think of like one is digital agriculture. So I'll be, that will be my like the first ways. How do you take HPC and AI to agriculture the world as though we just crossed 8 billion people. Yeah, that's right. We need continuous food and food security. How do we grow food with the lowest cost and with the highest yield? >>Water >>Consumption. Water consumption. Can we minimize or minimize the water consumption or the fertilization? Don't do blindly. Technologies are out there. Like, let's say there is a weak field, A traditional farmer see that, yeah, there is some disease, they will just go and spray pesticides. It is not good for the environment. Now I can fly it drone, get images of the field in the real time, check it against the models, and then it'll tell that, okay, this part of the field has disease. One, this part of the field has disease. Two, I indicate to the, to the tractor or the sprayer saying, okay, spray only pesticide one, you have pesticide two here. That has a big impact. So this is what we are developing in that NSF A I institute I cycle ai. We also have, we have chosen two additional verticals. One is animal ecology, because that is very much related to wildlife conservation, climate change, how do you understand how the animals move? Can we learn from them? And then see how human beings need to act in future. And the third one is the food insecurity and logistics. Smart food distribution. So these are our three broad goals in that institute. How do we develop cyber infrastructure from below? Combining HP c AI security? We have, we have a large team, like as I said, there are 40 PIs there, 60 students. We are a hundred members team. We are working together. So, so that will be my wish. How do we really democratize ai? >>Fantastic. I think that's a great place to wrap the conversation here On day three at Supercomputing conference 2022 on the cube, it was an honor, Dr. Panda working tirelessly at the Ohio State University with his team for 31 years toiling in the field of computer science and the end result, improving the lives of everyone on Earth. That's not a stretch. If you're in high school thinking about a career in computer science, keep that in mind. It isn't just about the bits and the bobs and the speeds and the feeds. It's about serving humanity. Maybe, maybe a little, little, little too profound a statement, I would argue not even close. I'm Dave Nicholson with the Queue, with my cohost Paul Gillin. Thank you again, Dr. Panda. Stay tuned for more coverage from the Cube at Super Compute 2022 coming up shortly. >>Thanks a lot.

>>Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Cube's Live coverage of Cuban here in Motor City, Michigan. My name is Savannah Peterson and I'm delighted to be joined for this segment by my co-host Lisa Martin. Lisa, how you doing? Good. >>We are, we've had such great energy for three days, especially on a Friday. Yeah, that's challenging to do for a tech conference. Go all week, push through the end of day Friday. But we're here, We're excited. We have a great conversation coming up. Absolutely. A little of our alumni is back with us. Love it. We have a great conversation about learning. >>There's been a lot of learning this week, and I cannot wait to hear what these folks have to say. Please welcome Tom and Victoria from Cast by Beam. You guys are swag up very well. You've got the Fanny pack. You've got the vest. You even were nice enough to give me a Carhartt Beanie. Carhartt being a Michigan company, we've had so much love for Detroit and, and locally sourced swag here. I've never seen that before. How has the week been for you? >>The week has been amazing, as you can say by my voice probably. >>So the mic helps. Don't worry. You're good. >>Yeah, so, So we've been talking to tons and tons of people, obviously some vendors, partners of ours. That was great seeing all those people face to face again, because in the past years we haven't really been able to meet up with those people. But then of course, also a lot of end users and most importantly, we've met a lot of people that wanted to learn Kubernetes, that came here to learn Kubernetes, and we've been able to help them. So feel very satisfied about that. >>When we were at VMware explorer, Tom, you were on the program with us, just, I guess that was a couple of months ago. I'm listening track. So many events are coming up. >>Time is a loop. It's >>Okay. It really is. You, you teased some new things coming from a learning perspective. What is going on there? >>All right. So I'm happy that you link back to VMware explorer there because Yeah, I was so excited to talk about it, but I couldn't, and it was frustrating. I knew it was coming up. That was was gonna be awesome. So just before Cuban, we launched Cube Campus, which is the rebrand of learning dot cast io. And Victoria is the great mind behind all of this, but what the gist of it, and then I'll let Victoria talk a little bit. The gist of Cube Campus is this all started as a small webpage in our own domain to bring some hands on lab online and let people use them. But we saw so many people who were interested in those labs that we thought, okay, we have to make this its own community, and this should not be a branded community or a company branded community. >>This needs to be its own thing because people, they like to be in just a community environment without the brand from the company being there. So we made it completely independent. It's a Cube campus, it's still a hundred percent free and it's still the That's right. Only platform where you actually learn Kubernetes with hands on labs. We have 14 labs today. We've been creating one per month and we have a lot of people on there. The most exciting part this week is that we had our first learning day, but before we go there, I suggest we let Victoria talk a little bit about that user experience of Cube Campus. >>Oh, absolutely. So Cube Campus is, and Tom mentioned it's a one year old platform, and we rebranded it specifically to welcome more and, you know, embrace this Kubernetes space total as one year anniversary. We have over 11,000 students and they've been taking labs Wow. Over 7,000. Yes. Labs taken. And per each user, if you actually count approximation, it's over three labs, three point 29. And I believe we're growing as per user if you look at the numbers. So it's a huge success and it's very easy to use overall. If you look at this, it's a number one free Kubernetes learning platform. So for you user journey for your Kubernetes journey, if you start from scratch, don't be afraid. That's we, we got, we got it all. We got you back. >>It's so important and, and I'm sure most of our audience knows this, but the, the number one challenge according to Gartner, according to everyone with Kubernetes, is the complexity. Especially when you're getting harder. I think it's incredibly awesome that you've decided to do this. 11,000 students. I just wanna settle on that. I mean, in your first year is really impressive. How did this become, and I'm sure this was a conversation you two probably had. How did this become a priority for CAST and by Beam? >>I have to go back for that. To the last virtual only Cuban where we were lucky enough to have set up a campaign. It was actually, we had an artist that was doing caricatures in a Zoom room, and it gave us an opportunity to actually talk to people because the challenge back in the days was that everything virtual, it's very hard to talk to people. Every single conversation we had with people asking them, Why are you at cu com virtual was to learn Kubernetes every single conversation. Yeah. And so that was, that is one data point. The other data point is we had one lab to, to use our software, and that was extremely popular. So as a team, we decided we should make more labs and not just about our product, but also about Kubernetes. So that initial page that I talked about that we built, we had three labs at launch. >>One was to learn install Kubernetes. One was to build a first application on Kubernetes, and then a third one was to learn how to back up and restore your application. So there was still a little bit of promoting our technology in there, but pretty soon we decided, okay, this has to become even more. So we added storage, we added security and, and a lot more labs. So today, 14 labs, and we're still adding one every month. The next step for the labs is going to be to involve other partners and have them bring their technologies in the lab. So that's our user base can actually learn more about Kubernetes related technologies and then hopefully with links to open source tools or free software tools. And it's, it's gonna continue to be a, a learning experience for Kubernetes. I >>Love how this seems to be, have been born out of the pandemic in terms of the inability to, to connect with customers, end users, to really understand what their challenges are, how do we help you best? But you saw the demand organically and built this, and then in, in the first year, not only 11,000 as Victoria mentioned, 11,000 users, but you've almost quadrupled the number of labs that you have on the platform in such a short time period. But you did hands on lab here, which I know was a major success. Talk to us about that and what, what surprised you about Yeah, the appetite to learn that's >>Here. Yeah. So actually I'm glad that you relay this back to the pandemic because yes, it was all online because it was still the, the tail end of the pandemic, but then for this event we're like, okay, it's time to do this in person. This is the next step, right? So we organized our first learning day as a co-located event. We were hoping to get 60 people together in a room. We did two labs, a rookie and a pro. So we said two times 30 people. That's our goal because it's really, it's competitive here with the collocated events. It's difficult >>Bringing people lots going on. >>And why don't I, why don't I let Victoria talk about the success of that learning day, because it was big part also her help for that. >>You know, our main goal is to meet expectations and actually see the challenges of our end user. So we actually, it also goes back to what we started doing research. We saw the pain points and yes, it's absolutely reflecting, reflecting on how we deal with this and what we see. And people very appreciative and they love platform because it's not only prerequisites, but also hands on lab practice. So, and it's free again, it's applied, which is great. Yes. So we thought about the user experience, user flow, also based, you know, the product when it's successful and you see the result. And that's where we, can you say the numbers? So our expectation was 60 >>People. You're kinda, you I feel like a suspense is starting killing. How many people came? >>We had over 350 people in our room. Whoa. >>Wow. Wow. >>And small disclaimer, we had a little bit of a technical issue in the beginning because of the success. There was a wireless problem in the hotel amongst others. Oh geez. So we were getting a little bit nervous because we were delayed 20 minutes. Nobody left that, that's, I was standing at the door while people were solving the issues and I was like, Okay, now people are gonna walk out. Right. Nobody left. Kind >>Of gives me >>Ose bump wearing that. We had a little reception afterwards and I talked to people, sorry about the, the disruption that we had under like, no, we, we are so happy that you're doing this. This was such a great experience. Castin also threw party later this week at the party. We had people come up to us like, I was at your learning day and this was so good. Thank you so much for doing this. I'm gonna take the rest of the classes online now. They love it. Really? >>Yeah. We had our instructors leading the program as well, so if they had any questions, it was also address immediately. So it was a, it was amazing event actually. I'm really grateful for people to come actually unappreciated. >>But now your boss knows how you can blow out metrics though. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Gonna >>Raise Victoria. >>Very good point. It's a very >>Good point. I can >>Tell. It's, it's actually, it's very tough to, for me personally, to analyze where the success came from. Because first of all, the team did an amazing job at setting the whole thing up. There was food and drinks for everybody, and it was really a very nice location in a hotel nearby. We made it a colocated event and we saw a lot of people register through the Cuban registration website. But we've done colocated events before and you typically see a very high no-show rate. And this was not the case right now. The a lot of, I mean the, the no-show was actually very low. Obviously we did our own campaign to our own database. Right. But it's hard to say like, we have a lot of people all over the world and how many people are actually gonna be in Detroit. Yeah. One element that also helped, I'm actually very proud of that, One of the people on our team, Thomas Keenan, he reached out to the local universities. Yes. And he invited students to come to learning day as well. I don't think it was very full with students. It was a good chunk of them. So there was a lot of people from here, but it was a good mix. And that way, I mean, we're giving back a little bit to the universities versus students. >>Absolutely. Much. >>I need to, >>There's a lot of love for Detroit this week. I'm all about it. >>It's amazing. But, but from a STEM perspective, that's huge. We're reaching down into that community and really giving them the opportunity to >>Learn. Well, and what a gateway for Castin. I mean, I can easily say, I mean, you are the number, we haven't really talked about casting at all, but before we do, what are those pins in front of you? >>So this is a physical pain. These are physical pins that we gave away for different programs. So people who took labs, for example, rookie level, they would get this p it's a rookie. >>Yes. I'm gonna hold this up just so they can do a little close shot on if you want. Yeah. >>And this is PR for, it's a, it's a next level program. So we have a program actually for IS to beginners inter intermediate and then pro. So three, three different levels. And this one is for Helman. It's actually from previous. >>No, Helmsman is someone who has taken the first three labs, right? >>Yes, it is. But we actually had it already before. So this one is, yeah, this one is, So we built two new labs for this event and it was very, very great, you know, to, to have a ready absolutely new before this event. So we launched the whole website, the whole platform with new labs, additional labs, and >>Before an event, honestly. Yeah. >>Yeah. We also had such >>Your expression just said it all. Exactly. >>You're a vacation and your future. I >>Hope so. >>We've had a couple of rough freaks. Yeah. This is part of it. Yeah. So, but about those labs. So in the classroom we had two, right? We had the, the, the rookie and the pro. And like I said, we wanted an audience for both. Most people stayed for both. And there were people at the venue one hour before we started because they did not want to miss it. Right. And what that chose to me is that even though Cuban has been around for a long time, and people have been coming back to this, there is a huge audience that considers themselves still very early on in their Kubernetes journey and wants to take and, and is not too proud to go to a rookie class for Kubernetes. So for us, that was like, okay, we're doing the right thing because yeah, with the website as well, more rookie users will keep, keep coming. And the big goal for us is just to accelerate their Kubernetes journey. Right. There's a lot of platforms out there. One platform I like as well is called the tech world with nana, she has a lot of instructional for >>You. Oh, she's a wonderful YouTuber. >>She, she's, yeah, her following is amazing. But what we add to this is the hands on part. Right? And, and there's a lot of auto resources as well where you have like papers and books and everything. We try to add those as well, but we feel that you can only learn it by doing it. And that is what we offer. >>Absolutely. Totally. Something like >>Kubernetes, and it sounds like you're demystifying it. You talked about one of the biggest things that everyone talks about with respect to Kubernetes adoption and some of the barriers is the complexity. But it sounds to me like at the, we talked about the demand being there for the hands on labs, the the cube campus.io, but also the fact that people were waiting an hour early, they're recognizing it's okay to raise, go. I don't really understand this. Yeah. In fact, another thing that I heard speaking of, of the rookies is that about 60% of the attendees at this year's cube con are Yeah, we heard that >>Out new. >>Yeah. So maybe that's smell a lot of those rookies showed up saying, >>Well, so even >>These guys are gonna help us really demystify and start learning this at a pace that works for me as an individual. >>There's some crazy macro data to support this. Just to echo this. So 85% of enterprise companies are about to start making this transition in leveraging Kubernetes. That means there's only 15% of a very healthy, substantial market that has adopted the technology at scale. You are teaching that group of people. Let's talk about casting a little bit. Number one, Kubernetes backup, 900% growth recently. How, how are we managing that? What's next for you, you guys? >>Yeah, so growth last year was amazing. Yeah. This year we're seeing very good numbers as well. I think part of the explanation is because people are going into production, you cannot sell back up to a company that is not in production with their right. With their applications. Right? So what we are starting to see is people are finally going into production with their Kubernetes applications and are realizing we have to back this up. The other trend that we're seeing is, I think still in LA last year we were having a lot of stateless first estate full conversations. Remember containers were created for stateless applications. That's no longer the case. Absolutely. But now the acceptance is there. We're not having those. Oh. But we're stateless conversations because everybody runs at least a database with some user data or application data, whatever. So all Kubernetes applications need to be backed up. Absolutely. And we're the number one product for that. >>And you guys just had recently had a new release. Yes. Talk to us a little bit about that before we wrap. It's new in the platform and, and also what gives you, what gives cast. And by being that competitive advantage in this new release, >>The competitive advantage is really simple. Our solution was built for Kubernetes. With Kubernetes. There are other products. >>Talk about dog fooding. Yeah. Yeah. >>That's great. Exactly. Yeah. And you know what, one of our successes at the show is also because we're using Kubernetes to build our application. People love to come to our booth to talk to our engineers, who we always bring to the show because they, they have so much experience to share. That also helps us with ems, by the way, to, to, to build those labs, Right? You need to have the, the experience. So the big competitive advantage is really that we're Kubernetes native. And then to talk about 5.5, I was going like, what was the other part of the question? So yeah, we had 5.5 launched also during the show. So it was really a busy week. The big focus for five five was simplicity. To make it even easier to use our product. We really want people to, to find it easy. We, we were using, we were using new helm charts and, and, and things like that. The second part of the launch was to do even more partner integrations. Because if you look at the space, this cloud native space, it's, you can also attest to that with, with Cube campus, when you build an application, you need so many different tools, right? And we are trying to integrate with all of those tools in the most easy and most efficient way so that it becomes easy for our customers to use our technology in their Kubernetes stack. >>I love it. Tom Victoria, one final question for you before we wrap up. You mentioned that you have a fantastic team. I can tell just from the energy you two have. That's probably the truth. You also mentioned that you bring the party everywhere you go. Where are we all going after this? Where's the party tonight? Yeah. >>Well, let's first go to a ballgame tonight. >>The party's on the court. I love it. Go Pistons. >>And, and then we'll end up somewhere downtown in a, in a good club, I guess. >>Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll see how the show down with the hawks goes. I hope you guys make it to the game. Tom Victoria, thank you so much for being here. We're excited about what you're doing. Lisa, always a joy sharing the stage with you. My love. And to all of you who are watching, thank you so much for tuning into the cube. We are wrapping up here with one segment left in Detroit, Michigan. My name's Savannah Peterson. Thanks for being here.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Dell Technologies World Digital Experience, brought to you by Dell Technologies. >> Hello everyone and welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of Dell Tech World 2020. This is Dave Volante and with me is Dennis Hoffman. He's a senior vice president and general manager for telecom systems business at Dell Technologies. Good to see you Dennis. Welcome. >> Thanks Dave. Great to be here. >> So let's talk a little bit about corporate strategy, which is your wheelhouse. I'm curious, has the pandemic at all altered your thinking on Dell strategy? >> Interestingly enough it hasn't. I suppose it would be standard for me to say that, but if anything, it's just given us both a sense of the challenge of what we had to do as a company to keep doing business. But also it's been really illuminating because it's given us a glimpse of the future. And fortunately, I think we've been pretty well prepared for what's happening. >> Well, I think in a way there's a bias inside of Dell because you guys were probably more work from home than the average company and you, in a way, might've been more prepared for this and maybe your thinking was already headed in that direction. What do you think about that? >> No, I think it's a reasonable thesis. The company is very much a work-from-home oriented or mobile in terms of where we work, an overall, I guess, hypothesis that work's something you do, it's not a place. But we also had a portfolio that benefited from the pandemic and an overarching strategy that was really to help our customers transform digitally. And if anything, the pandemic's accelerated all of that. So again, not without its challenges. And I certainly feel for the folks who get an awful lot of their energy from working with people every day because that's what's missing for an awful lot of folks who are doing an awful lot of what you and I are doing here. But otherwise I think we were biased toward it and it worked out pretty well so far. >> Okay. So it hasn't changed your strategy, but I would imagine some of your assumptions have changed. I mean, obviously more people are going to be working from home now, probably at least double. If it was 15 to 20% pre-COVID, it's going to be, let's call it 30, 35, maybe even 40% post-COVID. Maybe it's going to take a while, six, nine months to get there. But I would imagine some of your assumptions have changed. Is that a fair statement? >> Yeah, I think ours and the industries at large. Most companies' business continuity plans really centered around natural disasters. In most of those plans, 30% of the population working remotely was the high watermark. Right now, we're seeing whole industries redoing their business continuity plans, factoring in 60, 70% bogeys for how many people or what percentage of their population would work from home. As we surveyed our employees, 90% of people said we be either some form of hybrid work experience or completely remote. So, again, if we're for a bit of a leading edge on this, we're probably going to be tilted even more toward it, but there's been a big change in assumption about what remote work looks like and what you've got to do to make it productive. >> So we're a decade and a half into the cloud or at least the modern cloud era. What's your take on where the industry is today and how it affects your business and your cloud strategy broadly? >> Yeah, it's a fascinating. We're in the midst of an ever accelerating set of cycles or pendulum swings from centralized computing to decentralized computing back to centralized. We went from the mainframe era to the client server era and then even quicker to the cloud era. And now we're seeing the emergence of the edge. The one thing that's constant through all of this is workloads are like water. They seek their ground. Workloads have characteristics. They need performance, economics, security, data gravity. And so we've been firm believers through this whole time that a certain amount of workload's going to end up in a very centralized model. Some is going to end up very decentralized and our job is just to enable our customers to put the workloads where they need to run best. So as you point out, we're quite a ways into the cloud era now. It looks like the edge era is emerging. I like to think of it as really three legs of a stool. You've got work can run in a private data center, it can run in a public data center or it can run everywhere else. And increasingly, everywhere else is being called the Edge, all of it by the way, in a cloud operating model. So big distinction between cloud, the model and cloud, the place. And so in many ways, we talked specifically to certain vertical markets, the cloud era is already beginning to give way to the beginning of the Edge era. >> Well, and at the same time too, you're seeing the hyperscalers recognizing the need for whatever it is, for economics, for legal reasons, for preference or latency moving on-prem. >> Right. >> And so I was having an interesting discussion with the CIO the other day and I asked them, "Well, what what do you look at as cloud? "Cloud is everywhere. "I got my cloud on-prem. "I got my multiple clouds, which is clear. "Everybody's going multicloud." And then he happened to have 17,000 stores that he was looking after. He goes, that's Edge to me. That's all part of my cloud. And now of course, part of your role is telco. So let's talk about that space. You've got the over-the-top providers. They're sucking off the infrastructure that have been built out by the telcos. Cost per bid is coming down. Data uses is exploding. And the telco industry really has to transform its infrastructure. They're not agile enough and they can't wait to get to this new era of 5G. So I'm interested in your thoughts on that, how you see Dell helping. >> Well, as I'll tell you, you characterize it right on. I've in the last several months, spend a lot of time with telecom executives all over the world because of how easy it is to do this sort of thing. And they need to transform. The digital transformation sweeping the rest of the world has caught up with telecom and for a whole bunch of reasons. And some of those you pointed out, right, agility, cost, economics. They're in a funny place. Never has the demand for communication services been greater. And yet never have their financial positions been more challenged. Because they're stuck between an old, fairly proprietary, closed architecture and a handful of vendors and on the other hand, embracing this cloud computing data era where there's thousands of vendors. And they somehow all need to be cobbled together into an open software-defined system that runs on industry standard hardware. And yet most telecoms aren't prepared to do that integration themselves. So for us, we see immense opportunity. It's literally as if a massive 100 billion dollar plus addressable market has effectively decided they need to start buying the kinds of things we've been making for years. And moreover, they are by definition, fundamentally a distributed model. The big difference, I think, between Dell Technologies and a hyperscaler is we as a company we're built in and for a distributed computing world. We deal with very mundane topics like how do you get a person onsite within an hour? And how many spares depots do you have? And all of those sorts of things. Whereas hyperscalers were built for the exact opposite. A world in which they said, "Hey, give me your data, "give me your workloads. "I'll think hard about it. "And I'll give you a very flexible economic model." The Edge puts all of that up in the air and telcos's the leading part of this Edge, right? They're the ones that own a great deal of the Edge. And as you pointed out, 5G is really the thing that's got everybody excited. >> Well, you bring up a good point about the hyperscalers. I mean, their challenge now is they go on-premise. Okay. How do you service and support those customers at scale 'cause everything they do is at scale, it's all highly automated. So that's interesting. At the same time, I wonder you're a strategy guy. You look at what Amazon retail does. They're putting up warehouses everywhere. They're putting points of presence. I wonder if there are analogs to the technology business. It's probably more complicated, right, 'cause you're not servicing, you're just delivering. >> But I think you're right on. There's analogs. Look, we all are what we are as vendors. We all have our business models. Ours is to sell equipment and software and services to somebody. Amazon, since its founding, has really been about how do I insert myself in a transaction and ease that transaction and take a slice? Google's been about democratizing and monetizing the world's data. So Amazon needs access to transactions. Google needs access to the world's data, all the hyperscalers want into telco because they want onto the Edge. The same point you made about on-premises, right, like Outpost or Azure Stack. It's fundamentally admission by a hyperscaler that, "Yeah, I guess all workload doesn't belong "in the public cloud. "It's not all going to end up here." And I think they've got the same challenge when it comes to the Edge. And so people are trying to build their way out 'cause they need connectivity to the Edge. For us, we know that telecoms have to become multi clouds. You've referenced earlier the over-the-top profit problem. Well, they lost the profits from the consumer. B2C, they built the networks, they ran the networks and everybody else took the profit. So now here comes 5G with the promise of business services, real B2B revenue opportunities for telecom. And once again, they're faced with a choice. Either they become the cloud operator and allow the hyperscalers in as part of their multi-cloud or they give up the cloud to the hyperscalers and there go the over-the-top profits again. So it really, I found, a fascinating set of dynamics and an industry that can really use the help of somebody like Dell Technologies. >> Well, that's interesting 'cause as is many markets, consumer leads and then B2B markets open up. Well, how do you think this plays out? I mean, the telcos have very specialized hardware. They got this hardened and fossilized infrastructure. So where do you guys fit in that transformation and how do you see it evolving? >> Well, it's already started in a way, it's from the inside out. So telecommunications companies, as I look at them, as we look at them, they're almost like three companies in one. They have conventional IT organizations that in many ways look no different than a bank. They have their businesses, of course, the network where they spend the vast majority of their money, but it's not homogenous. There's a network core, there's a network Edge and then there's an access network. And then most of them, of course, sell services, business services. So they have lines of business. So we look at them as an IT organization, through the CIO, as a massive network operator through the CTO and then as a business partner, some of whom are even in our channel program and their cloud, their cloud services partners. And that's all through their line of business. So they're starting to open up from the inside out. Data center's going through transformation. It's begun in the network core. Now, the Edge is the next thing. And the RAN, in case of mobile operator, the radio access network, will ultimately come. And so you're right. There's a fossilized infrastructure in some places, but we've already seen the core start to desegregate and it will now ripple all the way out to their Edge and I think frankly through it and right onto the enterprise premise with private mobility. >> And so do you see them taking that infrastructure model all the way out to the Edge and trying to replicate essentially their what would've been monopolies for years or do you see them... It sounds like it's going to be a mix. Some of them are actually maybe going to lean on the hyperscalers and try to become more over-the-top content providers. >> Well, I think two challenges in business right? I guess they say there's three great motivators in business in life, make money, save money, stay out of jail, like revenue, cost and risk. They got a cost problem. They've got to get off the monolithic closed infrastructure architectures. They've got a revenue problem that a lot of the additional revenues and services went to somebody else, the OTT, the over-the-top folks. And so I think you will absolutely see a mix, but nobody can afford. No telecom communications company can afford to simply hand their network over. Unless they've reconciled, I'm just going to be a dumb pipe again, right? And none of them want that. >> Right. = But I think in many ways, they're waiting for somebody to walk in and say, "But here's the answer." And I can tell you that at Dell Technologies, and by that, I mean both within Dell and certainly within VMware, we're very strong proponents of the notion of an open software-defined network architecture built on industry standard hardware. And we're pretty well positioned, I think, to provide it or certainly that's the hope and the thesis behind our business. >> Yeah. So that then allows them to compete much more effectively, to provide, like you say, new B2B services, but it really is their infrastructure has been the big blocker up until recently. And you're right. I mean, network function virtualization has started to see through. We've seen some of the benefits of that and then now they've got to take it to the next level, your point about the Edge. >> Well in the 5G standard or 5G, the next cellular technology generation is actually defined by the three GPP standards. Release 15 was the first one that came out and it specified both standalone 5G networks where you can get all of these benefits and non-standalone where you basically have to mix 5G into the core, rely on the 4G Edge. And that's the only thing that's been deployed so far. So as in many things, the hype leads the reality by a little bit. So we've been talking 5G for a while, but the release 16 that would get you some of the really hyped up features of 5G just released this year. So it's coming and there's a lot of talk about it right now. There's a race to have the largest 5G network in America and the largest 5G network in the UK and so on and so forth. But this isn't really the true power of 5G. That window is still open and it's coming. >> You do a lot of strategy work. You obviously see the opportunity Edge, the term is just enormous. So you got to be wetting your chops at that. At the same time, the requirements are totally different. So I'm curious as to how you, as a strategy expert, dovetail into the architectural decisions that have to be made and the connective tissue between strategy and architecture and actually the whole go-to market, that whole value chain that you think about, how are you thinking about that in the world of Edge? >> Well there's, at the end of the day, two strategy decisions you got to make, where do I play and if I decide to play there, how do I win? So where do you play on the Edge is a very interesting question. Anytime there's a new computing paradigm shift, you go from something that's been pretty stable and frankly pretty horizontal and it becomes pretty verticalized. So the Edge is thousands of things right now. And it's many highly verticalized use cases, manufacturing, mining, retail, even something as simple as campus wifi replacement. So you've got to pick your spot. And for a company of our size, that really comes down to thinking about which of these Edge use cases are going to pop first, which one's going to teach you the most, which one's going to have the right level of scale. And this is where telco and Edge intersect because it turns out one big and easily reachable use case for Edge is to partner strongly with the telecommunications industry where something like 30 companies in the world make up 80% of the capital spending. I mean, you don't have to run a Superbowl ad. You can get all of your customers in a bus, right. So that's why I think there's really this somewhat silent, somewhat subtle and somewhat not so subtle competition for the architecture of the telecom industry as it refreshes, both because of 5G as an inflection point, but also just because of the stuff we talked about earlier, the economics, the need to modernize and embrace open-software defined industry standard architecture. >> And do have visibility at this point as to how portable the race to the telcos identify that sort of new standards? Do you have a sense as to how portable that would be to some of these other use cases or is it really like the software industry of when that started to grow, it was just so fragmented. Now, granted it's consolidated now, but do you have visibility on that yet? >> A little, but I mean the basic building blocks are quite portable. There's radio technology, 5G radio technology and there's a distinction between what might be required say to replace wifi at the Dell Round Rock Campus versus what AT&T needs for Manhattan, right? >> Yeah. >> But basically there's radio technology, which is increasingly becoming software running on industry standard hardware. And then the same sort of virtualization layer that is helpful in basically pulling all of this together, plays there as does the underlying hardware where Edge servers can be built for telco spec and easily modified to be an Edge enterprise use case. That's the base. On top of that however, is often a vertical solution. Like in retail's very timely, temperature sensing and mask detection and distance determination, right? So somebody's going to want to take that capability. And that's not something you're going to bounce off of some public cloud. You're going to want to actually understand in real time, as people walk in and out of the place, are they being compliant with whatever policies I have? So on top of some of this compute and virtualization and to some extent sometimes storage on the Edge, what else goes on that? Is it a video surveillance solution? Is it an automated mining RFID solution? And so we've got a little bit of insight and we know which verticals appear to be largest right now and which ones are going to pop first. And that's where a lot of people are putting their attention. >> Well, it's going to be interesting 'cause it sounds like there's a real long tale there. And you mentioned industry standard hardware and software, but maybe a new industry standard emerges for some of those use cases that you just mentioned where you need very low latency. Maybe that's where ARM gets in and maybe get some massive volume because while it's a long tail, it's also huge. >> It is. I mean, some people are estimating the Edge economy to be four times the internet economy because we get stuff that's going to be written that we don't even... It's no different than we went from... At one point, the only software in the world was mainframe software. And then some knucklehead wrote client server software and it was considered a niche. Fast forward 15 years later, mainframe is a subsegment of the computer industry and it's all client server software. And then we go cloud native. And at first it's a couple of cloud native apps and pretty soon it's a bunch. And this thing just goes back and forth. The difference is or I think the interesting thing is the cycle times are really compressing. I don't know if you've read Tom Friedman's latest book, "Thank You For Being Late", but it's all about how do we thrive as humans in the age of accelerations? Because the theory is we're not getting enough time to catch our breath now between pendulum swings. It's interesting. Same thing happened in cellular technology. I didn't know until I started doing this job, but 1G was real for about... It was the dominant form of networking for 17 years for mobile networking. Then 2G was for around 11. 3G was seven-ish. 4G looks like it's going to be six. So technology just keeps quickening. And it makes the amount of time we get to be horizontal and catch our breath as the industry is stable, there's always an inflection of some sort going on in our industry. And so change is absolutely the new normal. >> Yeah. And some of these things are really hard to predict. I mean, remember TCP/IP used to be this old, reliable protocol that runs the world. >> Exactly right. >> I want to ask you about... Last question is as a service initiative of Project Apex or Apex it's called. And that's obviously not just some kind of gimmick. I mean, that affects the strategy of the entire organization, the way in which customers want to consume the product or platform strategies now. How does that as a service pricing model affect the business that we've been talking about for the last 10 or 15 minutes? >> Well, the good news for us, those of us at the company working on Edge and telecom and all of that sort of stuff is we're actually building the business under the Apex philosophy, right? So our design center out of the gate is as a service. Michael made the observation a long time ago within our leadership team that, back to my comment, that workloads are like water. They seek their ground. There's a difference between where a workload belongs and the interest in a particular operating model or excuse me, a particular consumption model. And get they've been combined for a long time, right? The only way to get the, as a service consumption model, was through public cloud infrastructure. But it turns out that the right place for workload may well be on-premises not in a private data center or it may well be on the Edge not in a public cloud, but people still want to take advantage of the consumption model, right? The economics are the economics. And so for me, doing the telecom stuff, it's, as a service, the heart of the design center from a consumption model right out of the gate, which is frankly easier than trying to retrofit everything else. >> Right. >> But nonetheless, for us as a company, it's just an opportunity to give our customers the choice that they want in terms of not only what they acquire, but how they acquire it. >> Well Dennis, I always love talking to you. You're such a clear thinker and you've obviously gone deep into some of these topics. And good luck in the role in the telco world. It's obviously a huge opportunity. Everybody's really excited about it. And thank you for coming on theCUBE. >> All right. Thank you, Dave. It's been a pleasure. Nice chatting with you. >> Alright. And thank you for watching, everybody. This is theCUBE's coverage of Dell Tech World 2020, the virtual cube. Keep it right there. We'll be right back right after this short break. (relaxed music)

>> Hello everyone. On today's panel, the theme is Drug Discovery and how Artificial Intelligence can make a difference. On the panel today, we are honored to have Dr. Ryan Yates, principal scientist at The National Center for Natural Products Research, with a focus on botanicals specifically the pharmacokinetics, which is essentially how the drug changes over time in our body and pharmacodynamics which is essentially how drugs affects our body. And of particular interest to him is the use of AI in preclinical screening models to identify chemical combinations that can target chronic inflammatory processes such as fatty liver disease, cognitive impairment and aging. Welcome, Ryan. Thank you for coming. >> Good morning. Thank you for having me. >> The other distinguished panelist is Dr. Rangan Sukumar, our very own, is a distinguished technologist at the CTO office for High Performance Computing and Artificial Intelligence with a PHD in AI and 70 publications that can be applied in drug discovery, autonomous vehicles and social network analysis. Hey Rangan, welcome. Thank you for coming, by sparing the time. We have also our distinguished Chris Davidson. He is leader of our HPC and AI Application and Performance Engineering team. His job is to tune and benchmark applications, particularly in the applications of weather, energy, financial services and life sciences. Yes so particular interest is life sciences he spent 10 years in biotech and medical diagnostics. Hi Chris, welcome. Thank you for coming. >> Nice to see you. >> Well let's start with your Chris, yes, you're regularly interfaced with pharmaceutical companies and worked also on the COVID-19 White House Consortium. You know tell us, let's kick this off and tell us a little bit about your engagement in the drug discovery process. >> Right and that's a good question I think really setting the framework for what we're talking about here is to understand what is the drug discovery process. And that can be kind of broken down into I would say four different areas, there's the research and development space, the preclinical studies space, clinical trial and regulatory review. And if you're lucky, hopefully approval. Traditionally this is a slow arduous process it costs a lot of money and there's a high amount of error. Right, however this process by its very nature is highly iterate and has just huge amounts of data, right it's very data intensive, right and it's these characteristics that make this process a great target for kind of new approaches in different ways of doing things. Right, so for the sake of discussion, right, go ahead. >> Oh yes, so you mentioned data intensive brings to mind Artificial Intelligence, you know, so Artificial Intelligence making the difference here in this process, is that so? >> Right, and some of those novel approaches are actually based on Artificial Intelligence whether it's deep learning and machine learning, et cetera, you know, prime example would say, let's just say for the sake of discussion, let's say there's a brand new virus, causes flu-like symptoms, shall not be named if we focus kind of on the R and D phase, right our goal is really to identify target for the treatment and then screen compounds against it see which, you know, which ones we take forward right to this end, technologies like cryo-electron, cryogenic electron microscopy, just a form of microscopy can provide us a near atomic biomolecular map of the samples that we're studying, right whether that's a virus, a microbe, the cell that it's attaching to and so on, right AI, for instance, has been used in the particle picking aspect of this process. When you take all these images, you know, there are only certain particles that we want to take and study, right whether they have good resolution or not whether it's in the field of the frame and image recognition is a huge part of this, it's massive amounts of data in AI can be very easily, you know, used to approach that. Right, so with docking, you can take the biomolecular maps that you achieved from cryo-electron microscopy and you can take those and input that into the docking application and then run multiple iterations to figure out which will give you the best fit. AI again, right, this is iterative process it's extremely data intensive, it's an easy way to just apply AI and get that best fit doing something in a very, you know, analog manner that would just take humans very long time to do or traditional computing a very long time to do. >> Oh, Ryan, Ryan, you work at the NCNPR, you know, very exciting, you know after all, you know, at some point in history just about all drugs were from natural products yeah, so it's great to have you here today. Please tell us a little bit about your work with the pharmaceutical companies, especially when it is often that drug cocktails or what they call Polypharmacology, is the answer to complete drug therapy. Please tell us a bit more with your work there. >> Yeah thank you again for having me here this morning Dr. Goh, it's a pleasure to be here and as you said, I'm from the National Center for Natural Products Research you'll hear me refer to it as the NCNPR here in Oxford, Mississippi on the Ole Miss Campus, beautiful setting here in the South and so, what, as you said historically, what the drug discovery process has been, and it's really not a drug discovery process is really a therapy process, traditional medicine is we've looked at natural products from medicinal plants okay, in these extracts and so where I'd like to begin is really sort of talking about the assets that we have here at the NCNPR one of those prime assets, unique assets is our medicinal plant repository which comprises approximately 15,000 different medicinal plants. And what that allows us to do, right is to screen mine, that repository for activities so whether you have a disease of interest or whether you have a target of interest then you can use this medicinal plant repository to look for actives, in this case active plants. It's really important in today's environment of drug discovery to really understand what are the actives in these different medicinal plants which leads me to the second unique asset here at the NCNPR and that is our what I'll call a plant deconstruction laboratory so without going into great detail, but what that allows us to do is through a how to put workstation, right, is to facilitate rapid isolation and identification of phytochemicals in these different medicinal plants right, and so things that have historically taken us weeks and sometimes months, think acetylsalicylic acid from salicylic acid as a pain reliever in the willow bark or Taxol, right as an anti-cancer drug, right now we can do that with this system on the matter of days or weeks so now we're talking about activity from a plant and extract down to phytochemical characterization on a timescale, which starts to make sense in modern drug discovery, alright and so now if you look at these phytochemicals, right, and you ask yourself, well sort of who is interested in that and why, right what are traditional pharmaceutical companies, right which I've been working with for 20, over 25 years now, right, typically uses these natural products where historically has used these natural products as starting points for new drugs. Right, so in other words, take this phytochemical and make chemicals synthetic modifications in order to achieve a potential drug. But in the context of natural products, unlike the pharmaceutical realm, there is often times a big knowledge gap between a disease and a plant in other words I have a plant that has activity, but how to connect those dots has been really laborious time consuming so it took us probably 50 years to go from salicylic acid and willow bark to synthesize acetylsalicylic acid or aspirin it just doesn't work in today's environment. So casting about trying to figure out how we expedite that process that's when about four years ago, I read a really fascinating article in the Los Angeles Times about my colleague and business partner, Dr. Rangan Sukumar, describing all the interesting things that he was doing in the area of Artificial Intelligence. And one of my favorite parts of this story is basically, unannounced, I arrived at his doorstep in Oak Ridge, he was working Oak Ridge National Labs at the time, and I introduced myself to him didn't know what was coming, didn't know who I was, right and I said, hey, you don't know me you don't know why I'm here, I said, but let me tell you what I want to do with your system, right and so that kicked off a very fruitful collaboration and friendship over the last four years using Artificial Intelligence and it's culminated most recently in our COVID-19 project collaborative research between the NCNPR and HP in this case. >> From what I can understand also as Chris has mentioned highly iterative, especially with these combination mixture of chemicals right, in plants that could affect a disease. We need to put in effort to figure out what are the active components in that, that affects it yeah, the combination and given the layman's way of understanding it you know and therefore iterative and highly data intensive. And I can see why Rangan can play a huge significant role here, Rangan, thank you for joining us So it's just a nice segue to bring you in here, you know, given your work with Ryan over so many years now, tell I think I'm also quite interested in knowing a little about how it developed the first time you met and the process and the things you all work together on that culminated into the progress at the advanced level today. Please tell us a little bit about that history and also the current work. Rangan. >> So, Ryan, like he mentioned, walked into my office about four years ago and he was like hey, I'm working on this Omega-3 fatty acid, what can your system tell me about this Omega-3 fatty acid and I didn't even know how to spell Omega-3 fatty acids that's the disconnect between the technologist and the pharmacologist, they have terms of their own right since then we've come a long way I think I understand his terminologies now and he understands that I throw words like knowledge graphs and page rank and then all kinds of weird stuff that he's probably never heard in his life before right, so it's been on my mind off to different domains and terminologies in trying to accept each other's expertise in trying to work together on a collaborative project. I think the core of what Ryan's work and collaboration has led me to understanding is what happens with the drug discovery process, right so when we think about the discovery itself, we're looking at companies that are trying to accelerate the process to market, right an average drug is taking 12 years to get to market the process that Chris just mentioned, Right and so companies are trying to adopt what's called the in silico simulation techniques and in silico modeling techniques into what was predominantly an in vitro, in silico, in vivo environment, right. And so the in silico techniques could include things like molecular docking, could include Artificial Intelligence, could include other data-driven discovery methods and so forth, and the essential component of all the things that you know the discovery workflows have is the ability to augment human experts to do the best by assisting them with what computers do really really well. So, in terms of what we've done as examples is Ryan walks in and he's asking me a bunch of questions and few that come to mind immediately, the first few are, hey, you are an Artificial Intelligence expert can you sift through a database of molecules the 15,000 compounds that he described to prioritize a few for next lab experiments? So that's question number one. And he's come back into my office and asked me about hey, there's 30 million publications in PubMag and I don't have the time to read everything can you create an Artificial Intelligence system that once I've picked these few molecules will tell me everything about the molecule or everything about the virus, the unknown virus that shows up, right. Just trying to understand what are some ways in which he can augment his expertise, right. And then the third question, I think he described better than I'm going to was how can technology connect these dots. And typically it's not that the answer to a drug discovery problem sits in one database, right he probably has to think about uniproduct protein he has to think about phytochemical, chemical or informatics properties, data and so forth. Then he talked about the phytochemical interaction that's probably in another database. So when he is trying to answer other question and specifically in the context of an unknown virus that showed up in late last year, the question was, hey, do we know what happened in this particular virus compared to all the previous viruses? Do we know of any substructure that was studied or a different disease that's part of this unknown virus and can I use that information to go mine these databases to find out if these interactions can actually be used as a repurpose saying, hook, say this drug does not interact with this subsequence of a known virus that also seems to be part of this new virus, right? So to be able to connect that dot I think the abstraction that we are learning from working with pharma companies is that this drug discovery process is complex, it's iterative, and it's a sequence of needle in the haystack search problems, right and so one day, Ryan would be like, hey, I need to match genome, I need to match protein sequences between two different viruses. Another day it would be like, you know, I need to sift through a database of potential compounds, identified side effects and whatnot other day it could be, hey, I need to design a new molecule that never existed in the world before I'll figure out how to synthesize it later on, but I need a completely new molecule because of patentability reasons, right so it goes through the entire spectrum. And I think where HP has differentiated multiple times even the recent weeks is that the technology infusion into drug discovery, leads to several aha! Moments. And, aha moments typically happened in the other few seconds, and not the hours, days, months that Ryan has to laboriously work through. And what we've learned is pharma researchers love their aha moments and it leads to a sound valid, well founded hypothesis. Isn't that true Ryan? >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Yeah, at some point I would like to have a look at your, peak the list of your aha moments, yeah perhaps there's something quite interesting in there for other industries too, but we'll do it at another time. Chris, you know, with your regular work with pharmaceutical companies especially the big pharmas, right, do you see botanicals, coming, being talked about more and more there? >> Yeah, we do, right. Looking at kind of biosimilars and drugs that are already really in existence is kind of an important point and Dr. Yates and Rangan, with your work with databases this is something important to bring up and much of the drug discovery in today's world, isn't from going out and finding a brand new molecule per se. It's really looking at all the different databases, right all the different compounds that already exist and sifting through those, right of course data is mind, and it is gold essentially, right so a lot of companies don't want to share their data. A lot of those botanicals data sets are actually open to the public to use in many cases and people are wanting to have more collaborative efforts around those databases so that's really interesting to kind of see that being picked up more and more. >> Mm, well and Ryan that's where NCNPR hosts much of those datasets, yeah right and it's interesting to me, right you know, you were describing the traditional way of drug discovery where you have a target and a compound, right that can affect that target, very very specific. But from a botanical point of view, you really say for example, I have an extract from a plant that has combination of chemicals and somehow you know, it affects this disease but then you have to reverse engineer what those chemicals are and what the active ones are. Is that very much the issue, the work that has to be put in for botanicals in this area? >> Yes Doctor Goh, you hit it exactly. >> Now I can understand why a highly iterative intensive and data intensive, and perhaps that's why Rangan, you're highly valuable here, right. So tell us about the challenge, right the many to many intersection to try and find what the targets are, right given these botanicals that seem to affect the disease here what methods do you use, right in AI, to help with this? >> Fantastic question, I'm going to go a little bit deeper and speak like Ryan in terminology, but here we go. So with going back to about starting of our conversation right, so let's say we have a database of molecules on one side, and then we've got the database of potential targets in a particular, could be a virus, could be bacteria, could be whatever, a disease target that you've identified, right >> Oh this process so, for example, on a virus, you can have a number of targets on the virus itself some have the spike protein, some have the other proteins on the surface so there are about three different targets and others on a virus itself, yeah so a lot of people focus on the spike protein, right but there are other targets too on that virus, correct? >> That is exactly right. So for example, so the work that we did with Ryan we realized that, you know, COVID-19 protein sequence has an overlap, a significant overlap with previous SARS-CoV-1 virus, not only that, but it overlap with MERS, that's overlapped with some bad coronavirus that was studied before and so forth, right so knowing that and it's actually broken down into multiple and Ryan I'm going to steal your words, non-structural proteins, envelope proteins, S proteins, there's a whole substructure that you can associate an amino acid sequence with, right so on the one hand, you have different targets and again, since we did the work it's 160 different targets even on the COVID-19 mark, right and so you find a match, that we say around 36, 37 million molecules that are potentially synthesizable and try to figure it out which one of those or which few of those is actually going to be mapping to which one of these targets and actually have a mechanism of action that Ryan's looking for, that'll inhibit the symptoms on a human body, right so that's the challenge there. And so I think the techniques that we can unrule go back to how much do we know about the target and how much do we know about the molecule, alright. And if you start off a problem with I don't know anything about the molecule and I don't know anything about the target, you go with the traditional approaches of docking and molecular dynamics simulations and whatnot, right. But then, you've done so much docking before on the same database for different targets, you'll learn some new things about the ligands, the molecules that Ryan's talking about that can predict potential targets. So can you use that information of previous protein interactions or previous binding to known existing targets with some of the structures and so forth to build a model that will capture that essence of what we have learnt from the docking before? And so that's the second level of how do we infuse Artificial Intelligence. The third level, is to say okay, I can do this for a database of molecules, but then what if the protein-protein interactions are all over the literature study for millions of other viruses? How do I connect the dots across different mechanisms of actions too? Right and so this is where the knowledge graph component that Ryan was talking about comes in. So we've put together a database of about 150 billion medical facts from literature that Ryan is able to connect the dots and say okay, I'm starting with this molecule, what interactions do I know about the molecule? Is there a pretty intruding interaction that affects the mechanism of pathway for the symptoms that a disease is causing? And then he can go and figure out which protein and protein in the virus could potentially be working with this drug so that inhibiting certain activities would stop that progression of the disease from happening, right so like I said, your method of options, the options you've got is going to be, how much do you know about the target? How much do you know the drug database that you have and how much information can you leverage from previous research as you go down this pipeline, right so in that sense, I think we mix and match different methods and we've actually found that, you know mixing and matching different methods produces better synergies for people like Ryan. So. >> Well, the synergies I think is really important concept, Rangan, in additivities, synergistic, however you want to catch that. Right. But it goes back to your initial question Dr. Goh, which is this idea of polypharmacology and historically what we've done with traditional medicines there's more than one active, more than one network that's impacted, okay. You remember how I sort of put you on both ends of the spectrum which is the traditional sort of approach where we really don't know much about target ligand interaction to the completely interpretal side of it, right where now we are all, we're focused on is, in a single molecule interacting with a target. And so where I'm going with this is interesting enough, pharma has sort of migrate, started to migrate back toward the middle and what I mean by that, right, is we had these in a concept of polypharmacology, we had this idea, a regulatory pathway of so-called, fixed drug combinations. Okay, so now you start to see over the last 20 years pharmaceutical companies taking known, approved drugs and putting them in different combinations to impact different diseases. Okay. And so I think there's a really unique opportunity here for Artificial Intelligence or as Rangan has taught me, Augmented Intelligence, right to give you insight into how to combine those approved drugs to come up with unique indications. So is that patentability right, getting back to right how is it that it becomes commercially viable for entities like pharmaceutical companies but I think at the end of the day what's most interesting to me is sort of that, almost movement back toward that complex mixture of fixed drug combination as opposed to single drug entity, single target approach. I think that opens up some really neat avenues for us. As far as the expansion, the applicability of Artificial Intelligence is I'd like to talk to, briefly about one other aspect, right so what Rang and I have talked about is how do we take this concept of an active phytochemical and work backwards. In other words, let's say you identify a phytochemical from an in silico screening process, right, which was done for COVID-19 one of the first publications out of a group, Dr. Jeremy Smith's group at Oak Ridge National Lab, right, identified a natural product as one of the interesting actives, right and so it raises the question to our botanical guy, says, okay, where in nature do we find that phytochemical? What plants do I go after to try and source botanical drugs to achieve that particular end point right? And so, what Rangan's system allows us to do is to say, okay, let's take this phytochemical in this case, a phytochemical flavanone called eriodictyol and say, where else in nature is this found, right that's a trivial question for an Artificial Intelligence system. But for a guy like me left to my own devices without AI, I spend weeks combing the literature. >> Wow. So, this is brilliant I've learned something here today, right, If you find a chemical that actually, you know, affects and addresses a disease, right you can actually try and go the reverse way to figure out what botanicals can give you those chemicals as opposed to trying to synthesize them. >> Well, there's that and there's the other, I'm going to steal Rangan's thunder here, right he always teach me, Ryan, don't forget everything we talk about has properties, plants have properties, chemicals have properties, et cetera it's really understanding those properties and using those properties to make those connections, those edges, those sort of interfaces, right. And so, yes, we can take something like an eriodictyol right, that example I gave before and say, okay, now, based upon the properties of eriodictyol, tell me other phytochemicals, other flavonoid in this case, such as that phytochemical class of eriodictyols part right, now tell me how, what other phytochemicals match that profile, have the same properties. It might be more economically viable, right in other words, this particular phytochemical is found in a unique Himalayan plant that I've never been able to source, but can we find something similar or same thing growing in, you know a bush found all throughout the Southeast for example, like. >> Wow. So, Chris, on the pharmaceutical companies, right are they looking at this approach of getting, building drugs yeah, developing drugs? >> Yeah, absolutely Dr. Goh, really what Dr. Yates is talking about, right it doesn't help us if we find a plant and that plant lives on one mountain only on the North side in the Himalayas, we're never going to be able to create enough of a drug to manufacture and to provide to the masses, right assuming that the disease is widespread or affects a large enough portion of the population, right so understanding, you know, not only where is that botanical or that compound but understanding the chemical nature of the chemical interaction and the physics of it as well where which aspect affects the binding site, which aspect of the compound actually does the work, if you will and then being able to make that at scale, right. If you go to these pharmaceutical companies today, many of them look like breweries to be honest with you, it's large scale, it's large back everybody's clean room and it's, they're making the microbes do the work for them or they have these, you know, unique processes, right. So. >> So they're not brewing beer okay, but drugs instead. (Christopher laughs) >> Not quite, although there are pharmaceutical companies out there that have had a foray into the brewery business and vice versa, so. >> We should, we should visit one of those, yeah (chuckles) Right, so what's next, right? So you've described to us the process and how you develop your relationship with Dr. Yates Ryan over the years right, five years, was it? And culminating in today's, the many to many fast screening methods, yeah what would you think would be the next exciting things you would do other than letting me peek at your aha moments, right what would you say are the next exciting steps you're hoping to take? >> Thinking long term, again this is where Ryan and I are working on this long-term project about, we don't know enough about botanicals as much as we know about the synthetic molecules, right and so this is a story that's inspired from Simon Sinek's "Infinite Game" book, trying to figure it out if human population has to survive for a long time which we've done so far with natural products we are going to need natural products, right. So what can we do to help organizations like NCNPR to stage genomes of natural products to stage and understand the evolution as we go to understand the evolution to map the drugs and so forth. So the vision is huge, right so it's not something that we want to do on a one off project and go away but in the process, just like you are learning today, Dr. Goh I'm going to be learning quite a bit, having fun with life. So, Ryan what do you think? >> Ryan, we're learning from you. >> So my paternal grandfather lived to be 104 years of age. I've got a few years to get there, but back to "The Infinite Game" concept that Rang had mentioned he and I discussed that quite frequently, I'd like to throw out a vision for you that's well beyond that sort of time horizon that we have as humans, right and that's this right, is our current strategy and it's understandable is really treatment centric. In other words, we have a disease we develop a treatment for that disease. But we all recognize, whether you're a healthcare practitioner, whether you're a scientist, whether you're a business person, right or whatever occupation you realize that prevention, right the old ounce, prevention worth a pound of cure, right is how can we use something like Artificial Intelligence to develop preventive sorts of strategies that we are able to predict with time, right that's why we don't have preventive treatment approach right, we can't do a traditional clinical trial and say, did we prevent type two diabetes in an 18 year old? Well, we can't do that on a timescale that is reasonable, okay. And then the other part of that is why focus on botanicals? Is because, for the most part and there are exceptions I want to be very clear, I don't want to paint the picture that botanicals are all safe, you should just take botanicals dietary supplements and you'll be safe, right there are exceptions, but for the most part botanicals, natural products are in fact safe and have undergone testing, human testing for thousands of years, right. So how do we connect those dots? A preventive strategy with existing extent botanicals to really develop a healthcare system that becomes preventive centric as opposed to treatment centric. If I could wave a magic wand, that's the vision that I would figure out how we could achieve, right and I do think with guys like Rangan and Chris and folks like yourself, Eng Lim, that that's possible. Maybe it's in my lifetime I got 50 years to go to get to my grandfather's age, but you never know, right? >> You bring really, up two really good points there Ryan, it's really a systems approach, right understanding that things aren't just linear, right? And as you go through it, there's no impact to anything else, right taking that systems approach to understand every aspect of how things are being impacted. And then number two was really kind of the downstream, really we've been discussing the drug discovery process a lot and kind of the kind of preclinical in vitro studies and in vivo models, but once you get to the clinical trial there are many drugs that just fail, just fail miserably and the botanicals, right known to be safe, right, in many instances you can have a much higher success rate and that would be really interesting to see, you know, more of at least growing in the market. >> Well, these are very visionary statements from each of you, especially Dr. Yates, right, prevention better than cure, right, being proactive better than being reactive. Reactive is important, but we also need to focus on being proactive. Yes. Well, thank you very much, right this has been a brilliant panel with brilliant panelists, Dr. Ryan Yates, Dr. Rangan Sukumar and Chris Davidson. Thank you very much for joining us on this panel and highly illuminating conversation. Yeah. All for the future of drug discovery, that includes botanicals. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Dell Technologies World Digital Experience, brought to you by Dell Technologies. >> Hello everyone and welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of Dell Tech World 2020. This is Dave Volante and with me is Dennis Hoffman. He's a senior vice president and general manager for telecom systems business at Dell Technologies. Good to see you Dennis. Welcome. >> Thanks Dave. Great to be here. >> So let's talk a little bit about corporate strategy, which is your wheelhouse. I'm curious, has the pandemic at all altered your thinking on Dell strategy? >> Interestingly enough it hasn't. I suppose it would be standard for me to say that, but if anything, it's just given us both a sense of the challenge of what we had to do as a company to keep doing business. But also it's been really illuminating because it's given us a glimpse of the future. And fortunately, I think we've been pretty well prepared for what's happening. >> Well, I think in a way there's a bias inside of Dell because you guys were probably more work from home than the average company and you, in a way, might've been more prepared for this and maybe your thinking was already headed in that direction. What do you think about that? >> No, I think it's a reasonable thesis. The company is very much a work-from-home oriented or mobile in terms of where we work, an overall, I guess, hypothesis that work's something you do, it's not a place. But we also had a portfolio that benefited from the pandemic and an overarching strategy that was really to help our customers transform digitally. And if anything, the pandemic's accelerated all of that. So again, not without its challenges. And I certainly feel for the folks who get an awful lot of their energy from working with people every day because that's what's missing for an awful lot of folks who are doing an awful lot of what you and I are doing here. But otherwise I think we were biased toward it and it worked out pretty well so far. >> Okay. So it hasn't changed your strategy, but I would imagine some of your assumptions have changed. I mean, obviously more people are going to be working from home now, probably at least double. If it was 15 to 20% pre-COVID, it's going to be, let's call it 30, 35, maybe even 40% post-COVID. Maybe it's going to take a while, six, nine months to get there. But I would imagine some of your assumptions have changed. Is that a fair statement? >> Yeah, I think ours and the industries at large. Most companies' business continuity plans really centered around natural disasters. In most of those plans, 30% of the population working remotely was the high watermark. Right now, we're seeing whole industries redoing their business continuity plans, factoring in 60, 70% bogeys for how many people or what percentage of their population would work from home. As we surveyed our employees, 90% of people said we be either some form of hybrid work experience or completely remote. So, again, if we're for a bit of a leading edge on this, we're probably going to be tilted even more toward it, but there's been a big change in assumption about what remote work looks like and what you've got to do to make it productive. >> So we're a decade and a half into the cloud or at least the modern cloud era. What's your take on where the industry is today and how it affects your business and your cloud strategy broadly? >> Yeah, it's a fascinating. We're in the midst of an ever accelerating set of cycles or pendulum swings from centralized computing to decentralized computing back to centralized. We went from the mainframe era to the client server era and then even quicker to the cloud era. And now we're seeing the emergence of the edge. The one thing that's constant through all of this is workloads are like water. They seek their ground. Workloads have characteristics. They need performance, economics, security, data gravity. And so we've been firm believers through this whole time that a certain amount of workload's going to end up in a very centralized model. Some is going to end up very decentralized and our job is just to enable our customers to put the workloads where they need to run best. So as you point out, we're quite a ways into the cloud era now. It looks like the edge era is emerging. I like to think of it as really three legs of a stool. You've got work can run in a private data center, it can run in a public data center or it can run everywhere else. And increasingly, everywhere else is being called the Edge, all of it by the way, in a cloud operating model. So big distinction between cloud, the model and cloud, the place. And so in many ways, we talked specifically to certain vertical markets, the cloud era is already beginning to give way to the beginning of the Edge era. >> Well, and at the same time too, you're seeing the hyperscalers recognizing the need for whatever it is, for economics, for legal reasons, for preference or latency moving on-prem. >> Right. >> And so I was having an interesting discussion with the CIO the other day and I asked them, "Well, what what do you look at as cloud? "Cloud is everywhere. "I got my cloud on-prem. "I got my multiple clouds, which is clear. "Everybody's going multicloud." And then he happened to have 17,000 stores that he was looking after. He goes, that's Edge to me. That's all part of my cloud. And now of course, part of your role is telco. So let's talk about that space. You've got the over-the-top providers. They're sucking off the infrastructure that have been built out by the telcos. Cost per bid is coming down. Data uses is exploding. And the telco industry really has to transform its infrastructure. They're not agile enough and they can't wait to get to this new era of 5G. So I'm interested in your thoughts on that, how you see Dell helping. >> Well, as I'll tell you, you characterize it right on. I've in the last several months, spend a lot of time with telecom executives all over the world because of how easy it is to do this sort of thing. And they need to transform. The digital transformation sweeping the rest of the world has caught up with telecom and for a whole bunch of reasons. And some of those you pointed out, right, agility, cost, economics. They're in a funny place. Never has the demand for communication services been greater. And yet never have their financial positions been more challenged. Because they're stuck between an old, fairly proprietary, closed architecture and a handful of vendors and on the other hand, embracing this cloud computing data era where there's thousands of vendors. And they somehow all need to be cobbled together into an open software-defined system that runs on industry standard hardware. And yet most telecoms aren't prepared to do that integration themselves. So for us, we see immense opportunity. It's literally as if a massive 100 billion dollar plus addressable market has effectively decided they need to start buying the kinds of things we've been making for years. And moreover, they are by definition, fundamentally a distributed model. The big difference, I think, between Dell Technologies and a hyperscaler is we as a company we're built in and for a distributed computing world. We deal with very mundane topics like how do you get a person onsite within an hour? And how many spares depots do you have? And all of those sorts of things. Whereas hyperscalers were built for the exact opposite. A world in which they said, "Hey, give me your data, "give me your workloads. "I'll think hard about it. "And I'll give you a very flexible economic model." The Edge puts all of that up in the air and telcos's the leading part of this Edge, right? They're the ones that own a great deal of the Edge. And as you pointed out, 5G is really the thing that's got everybody excited. >> Well, you bring up a good point about the hyperscalers. I mean, their challenge now is they go on-premise. Okay. How do you service and support those customers at scale 'cause everything they do is at scale, it's all highly automated. So that's interesting. At the same time, I wonder you're a strategy guy. You look at what Amazon retail does. They're putting up warehouses everywhere. They're putting points of presence. I wonder if there are analogs to the technology business. It's probably more complicated, right, 'cause you're not servicing, you're just delivering. >> But I think you're right on. There's analogs. Look, we all are what we are as vendors. We all have our business models. Ours is to sell equipment and software and services to somebody. Amazon, since its founding, has really been about how do I insert myself in a transaction and ease that transaction and take a slice? Google's been about democratizing and monetizing the world's data. So Amazon needs access to transactions. Google needs access to the world's data, all the hyperscalers want into telco because they want onto the Edge. The same point you made about on-premises, right, like Outpost or Azure Stack. It's fundamentally admission by a hyperscaler that, "Yeah, I guess all workload doesn't belong "in the public cloud. "It's not all going to end up here." And I think they've got the same challenge when it comes to the Edge. And so people are trying to build their way out 'cause they need connectivity to the Edge. For us, we know that telecoms have to become multi clouds. You've referenced earlier the over-the-top profit problem. Well, they lost the profits from the consumer. B2C, they built the networks, they ran the networks and everybody else took the profit. So now here comes 5G with the promise of business services, real B2B revenue opportunities for telecom. And once again, they're faced with a choice. Either they become the cloud operator and allow the hyperscalers in as part of their multi-cloud or they give up the cloud to the hyperscalers and there go the over-the-top profits again. So it really, I found, a fascinating set of dynamics and an industry that can really use the help of somebody like Dell Technologies. >> Well, that's interesting 'cause as is many markets, consumer leads and then B2B markets open up. Well, how do you think this plays out? I mean, the telcos have very specialized hardware. They got this hardened and fossilized infrastructure. So where do you guys fit in that transformation and how do you see it evolving? >> Well, it's already started in a way, it's from the inside out. So telecommunications companies, as I look at them, as we look at them, they're almost like three companies in one. They have conventional IT organizations that in many ways look no different than a bank. They have their businesses, of course, the network where they spend the vast majority of their money, but it's not homogenous. There's a network core, there's a network Edge and then there's an access network. And then most of them, of course, sell services, business services. So they have lines of business. So we look at them as an IT organization, through the CIO, as a massive network operator through the CTO and then as a business partner, some of whom are even in our channel program and their cloud, their cloud services partners. And that's all through their line of business. So they're starting to open up from the inside out. Data center's going through transformation. It's begun in the network core. Now, the Edge is the next thing. And the RAN, in case of mobile operator, the radio access network, will ultimately come. And so you're right. There's a fossilized infrastructure in some places, but we've already seen the core start to desegregate and it will now ripple all the way out to their Edge and I think frankly through it and right onto the enterprise premise with private mobility. >> And so do you see them taking that infrastructure model all the way out to the Edge and trying to replicate essentially their what would've been monopolies for years or do you see them... It sounds like it's going to be a mix. Some of them are actually maybe going to lean on the hyperscalers and try to become more over-the-top content providers. >> Well, I think two challenges in business right? I guess they say there's three great motivators in business in life, make money, save money, stay out of jail, like revenue, cost and risk. They got a cost problem. They've got to get off the monolithic closed infrastructure architectures. They've got a revenue problem that a lot of the additional revenues and services went to somebody else, the OTT, the over-the-top folks. And so I think you will absolutely see a mix, but nobody can afford. No telecom communications company can afford to simply hand their network over. Unless they've reconciled, I'm just going to be a dumb pipe again, right? And none of them want that. >> Right. = But I think in many ways, they're waiting for somebody to walk in and say, "But here's the answer." And I can tell you that at Dell Technologies, and by that, I mean both within Dell and certainly within VMware, we're very strong proponents of the notion of an open software-defined network architecture built on industry standard hardware. And we're pretty well positioned, I think, to provide it or certainly that's the hope and the thesis behind our business. >> Yeah. So that then allows them to compete much more effectively, to provide, like you say, new B2B services, but it really is their infrastructure has been the big blocker up until recently. And you're right. I mean, network function virtualization has started to see through. We've seen some of the benefits of that and then now they've got to take it to the next level, your point about the Edge. >> Well in the 5G standard or 5G, the next cellular technology generation is actually defined by the three GPP standards. Release 15 was the first one that came out and it specified both standalone 5G networks where you can get all of these benefits and non-standalone where you basically have to mix 5G into the core, rely on the 4G Edge. And that's the only thing that's been deployed so far. So as in many things, the hype leads the reality by a little bit. So we've been talking 5G for a while, but the release 16 that would get you some of the really hyped up features of 5G just released this year. So it's coming and there's a lot of talk about it right now. There's a race to have the largest 5G network in America and the largest 5G network in the UK and so on and so forth. But this isn't really the true power of 5G. That window is still open and it's coming. >> You do a lot of strategy work. You obviously see the opportunity Edge, the term is just enormous. So you got to be wetting your chops at that. At the same time, the requirements are totally different. So I'm curious as to how you, as a strategy expert, dovetail into the architectural decisions that have to be made and the connective tissue between strategy and architecture and actually the whole go-to market, that whole value chain that you think about, how are you thinking about that in the world of Edge? >> Well there's, at the end of the day, two strategy decisions you got to make, where do I play and if I decide to play there, how do I win? So where do you play on the Edge is a very interesting question. Anytime there's a new computing paradigm shift, you go from something that's been pretty stable and frankly pretty horizontal and it becomes pretty verticalized. So the Edge is thousands of things right now. And it's many highly verticalized use cases, manufacturing, mining, retail, even something as simple as campus wifi replacement. So you've got to pick your spot. And for a company of our size, that really comes down to thinking about which of these Edge use cases are going to pop first, which one's going to teach you the most, which one's going to have the right level of scale. And this is where telco and Edge intersect because it turns out one big and easily reachable use case for Edge is to partner strongly with the telecommunications industry where something like 30 companies in the world make up 80% of the capital spending. I mean, you don't have to run a Superbowl ad. You can get all of your customers in a bus, right. So that's why I think there's really this somewhat silent, somewhat subtle and somewhat not so subtle competition for the architecture of the telecom industry as it refreshes, both because of 5G as an inflection point, but also just because of the stuff we talked about earlier, the economics, the need to modernize and embrace open-software defined industry standard architecture. >> And do have visibility at this point as to how portable the race to the telcos identify that sort of new standards? Do you have a sense as to how portable that would be to some of these other use cases or is it really like the software industry of when that started to grow, it was just so fragmented. Now, granted it's consolidated now, but do you have visibility on that yet? >> A little, but I mean the basic building blocks are quite portable. There's radio technology, 5G radio technology and there's a distinction between what might be required say to replace wifi at the Dell Round Rock Campus versus what AT&T needs for Manhattan, right? >> Yeah. >> But basically there's radio technology, which is increasingly becoming software running on industry standard hardware. And then the same sort of virtualization layer that is helpful in basically pulling all of this together, plays there as does the underlying hardware where Edge servers can be built for telco spec and easily modified to be an Edge enterprise use case. That's the base. On top of that however, is often a vertical solution. Like in retail's very timely, temperature sensing and mask detection and distance determination, right? So somebody's going to want to take that capability. And that's not something you're going to bounce off of some public cloud. You're going to want to actually understand in real time, as people walk in and out of the place, are they being compliant with whatever policies I have? So on top of some of this compute and virtualization and to some extent sometimes storage on the Edge, what else goes on that? Is it a video surveillance solution? Is it an automated mining RFID solution? And so we've got a little bit of insight and we know which verticals appear to be largest right now and which ones are going to pop first. And that's where a lot of people are putting their attention. >> Well, it's going to be interesting 'cause it sounds like there's a real long tale there. And you mentioned industry standard hardware and software, but maybe a new industry standard emerges for some of those use cases that you just mentioned where you need very low latency. Maybe that's where ARM gets in and maybe get some massive volume because while it's a long tail, it's also huge. >> It is. I mean, some people are estimating the Edge economy to be four times the internet economy because we get stuff that's going to be written that we don't even... It's no different than we went from... At one point, the only software in the world was mainframe software. And then some knucklehead wrote client server software and it was considered a niche. Fast forward 15 years later, mainframe is a subsegment of the computer industry and it's all client server software. And then we go cloud native. And at first it's a couple of cloud native apps and pretty soon it's a bunch. And this thing just goes back and forth. The difference is or I think the interesting thing is the cycle times are really compressing. I don't know if you've read Tom Friedman's latest book, "Thank You For Being Late", but it's all about how do we thrive as humans in the age of accelerations? Because the theory is we're not getting enough time to catch our breath now between pendulum swings. It's interesting. Same thing happened in cellular technology. I didn't know until I started doing this job, but 1G was real for about... It was the dominant form of networking for 17 years for mobile networking. Then 2G was for around 11. 3G was seven-ish. 4G looks like it's going to be six. So technology just keeps quickening. And it makes the amount of time we get to be horizontal and catch our breath as the industry is stable, there's always an inflection of some sort going on in our industry. And so change is absolutely the new normal. >> Yeah. And some of these things are really hard to predict. I mean, remember TCP/IP used to be this old, reliable protocol that runs the world. >> Exactly right. >> I want to ask you about... Last question is as a service initiative of Project Apex or Apex it's called. And that's obviously not just some kind of gimmick. I mean, that affects the strategy of the entire organization, the way in which customers want to consume the product or platform strategies now. How does that as a service pricing model affect the business that we've been talking about for the last 10 or 15 minutes? >> Well, the good news for us, those of us at the company working on Edge and telecom and all of that sort of stuff is we're actually building the business under the Apex philosophy, right? So our design center out of the gate is as a service. Michael made the observation a long time ago within our leadership team that, back to my comment, that workloads are like water. They seek their ground. There's a difference between where a workload belongs and the interest in a particular operating model or excuse me, a particular consumption model. And get they've been combined for a long time, right? The only way to get the, as a service consumption model, was through public cloud infrastructure. But it turns out that the right place for workload may well be on-premises not in a private data center or it may well be on the Edge not in a public cloud, but people still want to take advantage of the consumption model, right? The economics are the economics. And so for me, doing the telecom stuff, it's, as a service, the heart of the design center from a consumption model right out of the gate, which is frankly easier than trying to retrofit everything else. >> Right. >> But nonetheless, for us as a company, it's just an opportunity to give our customers the choice that they want in terms of not only what they acquire, but how they acquire it. >> Well Dennis, I always love talking to you. You're such a clear thinker and you've obviously gone deep into some of these topics. And good luck in the role in the telco world. It's obviously a huge opportunity. Everybody's really excited about it. And thank you for coming on theCUBE. >> All right. Thank you, Dave. It's been a pleasure. Nice chatting with you. >> Alright. And thank you for watching, everybody. This is theCUBE's coverage of Dell Tech World 2020, the virtual cube. Keep it right there. We'll be right back right after this short break. (relaxed music)

>> Announcer: From Santa Clara, California, It's theCUBE! Covering Technovation World Pitch Summit 2019. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. Now, here's Sonia Tagare. >> Hi and welcome to theCUBE. I'm your host, Sonia Tagare, and we're here at the Oracle Agnews Campus in Santa Clara, California, covering Technovations World Pitch Summit 2019, a pitch competition in which girls from around the world develop mobile apps in order to create positive change in the world. With us today, we have a Technovation executive, Devin Dillon, who is the Senior Director of Partnerships at Technovation, welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you. >> So, before we start, for people who don't know, can you tell us more about Technovation World Pitch? >> Sure, so Technovation World Pitch is sort of the culminating event of a program that we run for young girls around the world. So we invite girls to solve problems in their community. This year, we had over 7,000 girls from 57 countries participating. So lots of girls with lots of ideas. And then this World Pitch is the culmination of that. So it's a competition, and our winners from around the world are invited to come here and share their ideas. And a really exciting part is they get to meet all of their peers that are also working on solving problems and exploring technology, so it's a really great week. >> That's awesome, and can you tell us more about how you got involved in Technovation, and what your role is at the company? >> Sure, so I got involved in Technovation about seven years ago, the program was small. It had just gone international. I think our first year, we had less than 10 countries that were participating, but I really liked the idea of putting education online, accessible to anybody. Anyone can lead it, and solve a problem in their community, and learn a little bit as they were doing that. So that's how I got involved. And then, the program has grown, and we now have this big celebration event. So it looks different, but yeah, that's how I got involved. >> And can you tell me more about your role? >> Sure yes. So, I lead the program. So we have two programs at Technovation. We have Technovation Girls, which this World Summit is the celebrating event for, then we have Technovation Families, which is an educational program for our younger audience. It invites families to solve problems with AI. So my role is really to make sure that our programs are awesome, and helping people to learn. Our resources are good, and we're supporting our leaders around the world. So, our Technovation team never actually leads programs, we invite everyone from around the world to lead the programs, so we do a lot of work to make sure that the quality is there, and that the programs are having a great impact on the kids. >> Wow, and I recently heard that Iridescent became Technovation, so can you tell us more about that change, and why that decision was made? >> Yeah, I'm happy to. So, like I mentioned, we have two flagship programs. They previously had names that were pretty different and our organization was called Iridescent. And Technovation, it was this program, it was like a program that had gotten a lot of global scale and participants. So much so, that when we would say Iridescent, people would recognize us. So we changed our overall organization name to Technovation, and this program is now called Technovation Girls. We challenge girls to solve a problem in their community, using coding, and create a mobile app and a business plan, and then our other program, Technovation Families, challenges families to solve a problem using AI. >> And so I heard the girls had an amazing week. What was the schedule like, who did they get to meet? >> Sure, so it's a busy week. We have flown in girls from all over to be able to see a little bit of the Bay Area, to be able to meet each other, so we have lots of activities. We've had field trips to a lot of tech companies, so we were able to visit Uber, we were able to visit Autodesk, Google Ventures, where the girls are able to see and hear from different mentors in the industry, meet people that are working on technology, ask the questions, and then the other component is we invite the girls to connect with each other. It's a powerful moment where we have a lot of girls representing different cultures and different ideas, so we have fun things like dance parties and opportunities for them to get to know each other also. >> That sounds like a really bonding sleep over. >> Yeah, we try to create that atmosphere. Of course the girls can be shy, and they're coming maybe the first time to the United States. Many of them, English is their third or their fourth language, so it can be a little scary at first, but I think by today, they have been able to hopefully create some lasting friendships. >> That's amazing, and along with the friendships, for the people who do win, what kind of prizes do they get? >> Yeah, so we are giving away this year, over $50,000 worth of prizes. $30,000 of that is scholarships so the students can continue their education since they're young girls, they're able to sort of put that to their education how they would like, and then another option is that they can continue developing their idea. So the girls have crated a mobile app and a business plan, and so they're able to continue developing that if they would like to. >> And do they have mentors guiding them through that? >> Yes, and the exciting thing is, a lot of the mentors are here. So the way that the competition works, is that the girls are working on their idea for many months. They are creating an idea, they're coding, they're learning a lot of different things, they can be creating business plans, and the mentors are really there to support them, to help them build a relationship with someone who's maybe in the tech industry, but also just someone to give encouragement and to help them work together on their problem. >> And have you seen an increase in participant in Technovation over the years? >> Yeah, so this year, like I mentioned, we had 7,000 participants, which is a large year for us. The past two years, we've had great growth, because the program is online, and it's freely accessible. We've really been able to see a lot of take up from different people around the world. >> What countries do you hope to reach to eventually? >> Yeah, good question. Well we had submissions from 57 countries this year, so you know, each year, the submissions kind of change. So we're growing in a lot of really exciting places, I always love to see ideas from all different areas of the world, so tonight, we have some great ideas represented from Nigeria, and Cambodia, and Bolivia, and Canada, like really right there, like lots of corners of the world, so it's always exciting to see. >> And like what criteria do finalists have to pass to make it to this stage? >> Yeah, good question. So they need to submit a lot of different things to be invited to the competition. So the girls really work on pitching their idea, because we know that if you have an idea, not just in technology, you need to be able to understand how to present it and develop you know a business plan, and how you want others to understand what you're doing. They have created a mobile app, so they've coded something. They've probably learned technology or some technology skills, and then, what are our other components. They like develop their idea. So a large part of it is really thinking of an idea, making it batter, developing an actual product, so. >> Wow, and how do you think Technovation is helping the overall girls in tech, women in tech community? >> Yeah, so we're hoping it could get girls interested. So our girls are young, but we really hope to spark an interest and get them involved in the community, hopefully, this is a step on their path. Maybe they will keep taking classes that are technology related, or maybe they'll make some friends that are into technology and form a community. Maybe they'll go to college for this. Maybe some of them will become computer scientists, or engineers, or someone in technology, so it's pretty open, we want to create problem solvers and problem solvers so a lot of different things in our world, including impact technology. >> And going off of that, are there any success stories that really stand out to you? >> Yeah, I'm trying to think of some girls from this year. I think what always stands out to me, from the girls, is that they aren't just building like a mobile app. A lot of them are collaborating with people in their community, with their governments, with different non-profits. So, one of the girls this year, she's working on opioid addiction, and she's been collaborating with a lot of researchers in different universities, she's been thinking about how to create a prototype. Another girl this year is working on supporting farmers and invasive species. So she's been working with different invasive species groups to understand how this program is affecting people, so I think it's always really fun to see how the girls are not just thinking about themselves, or collaborating just on their team, they're really thinking about their community and making an impact with different people and different groups. >> And how do you hope Technovations going to continue to improve and impact more girls? >> Well, I hope we continue to create girls that feel empowered to make the world better. Which you know, is idealistic, but I think that's power of education, is that you help people to think about how to make the world better at the end of the day, and I hope we're giving them those tools. Hope we continue giving them the tools to make their lives and their communities better. >> That's awesome, and thank you so much for being here. >> Devon: Sure, thank you so much. >> This is Devon Dillon, and I'm Sonia Tagare. Thanks for watching The Cube. Stay tuned for more. (upbeat funky music)

>> From Cambridge Massachusetts, it's The Cube covering MIT Chief Data Officer, and Information Quality Symposium 2019. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. (electronic music) >> Welcome back to MIT in Cambridge, Massachusets everybody. You're watching The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante I'm here with Paul Gillin. Day two of the of the MIT Chief Data Officer Information Quality Conference. One of the things we like to do, at these shows, we love to profile Boston area start-ups that are focused on data, and in particular we love to focus on start-ups that are founded by women. Julie Johnson is here, She's the Co-founder and CEO of Armored Things. Julie, great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> Great to see you. >> So why did you start Armored Things? >> You know, Armored Things was created around a mission to keep people safe. Early in the time where were looking at starting this company, incidents like Las Vegas happened, Parkland happened, and we realized that the world of security and operations was really stuck in the past right? It's a manual solutions generally driven by a human instinct, anecdotal evidence, and tools like Walkie-Talkies and video cameras. We knew there had to be a better way right? In the world of Data that we live in today, I would ask if either of you got in your car this morning without turning on Google Maps to see where you were going, and the best route with traffic. We want to help universities, ball parks, corporate campuses do that for people. How do we keep our people safe? By understanding how they live. >> Yeah, and stay away from Lambert Street in Cambridge by the way. >> (laughing) >> Okay so, you know in people, when they think about security they think about cyber, they think about virtual security, et cetera et cetera, but there's also the physical security aspect. Can you talk about the balance of those two? >> Yeah, and I think both are very important. We actually tend to mimic some of the revolutions that have happened on the cyber security side over the last 10 years with what we're trying to do in the world of physical security. So, folks watching this who are familiar with cyber security might understand concepts like anomaly detection, SIEM and SOAR for orchestrated response. We very much believe that similar concepts can be applied to the physical world, but the unique thing about the physical world, is that it has defined boundaries, right? People behave in accordance with their environment. So, how do we take the lessons learned in cyber security over 10 to 15 years, and apply them to that physical world? I also believe that physical and cyber security are converging. So, are there things that we know in the physical world because of how we approach the problem? That can be a leading indicator of a threat in either the physical world or the digital world. What many people don't understand is that for some of these cyber security hacks, the first weak link is physical access to your network, to your data, to your systems. How do we actually help you get an eye on that, so you already have some context when you notice it in the digital realm. >> So, go back to the two examples you sited earlier, the two shooting examples. Could those have been prevented or mitigated in some way using the type of technology you're building? >> Yeah, I hate to say that you could ever prevent an incident like that. Everyone wants us to do better. Our goal is to get a better sense predicatively of the leading indicators that tell you you have a problem. So, because we're fundamentally looking at patterns of people and flow, I want to know when a normal random environment starts to disperse in a certain way, or if I have a bottle neck in my environment. Because if then I have that type of incident occur, I already know where my hotspots are, where my pockets of risk are. So, I can address it that much more efficiently from a response perspective. >> So if people are moving quickly away from a venue, it might be and indication that there's something wrong- >> It could be, Yeah. That demands attention. >> Yeah, when you go to a baseball game, or when you go to work I would imagine that you generally have a certain pattern of behavior. People know conceptually what those patterns are. But, we're the first effort to bring them data to prove what those patterns are so that they can actually use that data to consistently re-examine their operations, re-examine their security from a staffing perspective, from a management perspective, to make sure that they're using all the data that's at their disposal. >> Seems like there would be many other applications beyond security of this type of analysis. Are you committed to the security space, or do you have broader ambitions? >> Are we committed to the security space is a hundred percent. I would say the number one reason why people join our team, and the number one reason why people call us to be customers is for security. There's a better way to do things. We fundamentally believe that every ball park, every university, every corporate campus, needs a better way. I think what we've seen though is exactly what you're saying. As we built our software, for security in these venues, and started with an understanding of people and flow, there's a lot that falls out of that right? How do I open gates that are more effective based on patterns of entry and exit. How do I make sure that my staffing's appropriate for the number of people I have in my environment. There's lots of other contextual information that can ultimately drive a bottom line or top line revenue. So, you take a pro sports venue for example. If we know that on a 10 degree colder day people tend to eagres more early in the game, how do we adjust our food and beverage strategy to save money on hourly workers, so that we're not over staffing in a period of time that doesn't need those resources. >> She's talking about the physical and the logical security worlds coming together, and security of course has always been about data, but 10 years ago it was staring at logs increasing the machines are helping us do that, and software is helping us do that. So can you add some color to at least the trends in the market generally, and then maybe specifically what you're doing bringing machine intelligence to the data to make us more secure. >> Sure, and I hate to break it to you, but logs are still a pretty big part of what people are watching on a daily basis, as are video cameras. We've seen a lot of great technology evolve in the video management system realm. Very advanced technology great at object recognition and detecting certain behaviors with a video only solution, right? How do we help pinpoint certain behaviors on a specific frame or specific camera. The only problem with that is, if you have people watching those cameras, you're still relying on humans in the loop to catch a malicious behavior, to respond in the event that they're notified about something unusual. That still becomes a manual process. What we do, is we use data to watch not only cameras, but we are watching your cameras, your Wi-Fi, access control. Contextual data from public transit, or weather. How do we get this greater understanding of your environment that helps us watch everything so that we can surface the things that you want the humans in the loop to pay attention to, right? So, we're not trying to remove the human, we're trying to help them focus their time and make decisions that are backed by data in the most efficient way possible. >> How about the concerns about The Surveillance Society? In some countries, it's just taken for granted now that you're on camera all the time. In the US that's a little bit more controversial. Is what your doing, do you have to be sensitive to that in designing the tools you're building? >> Yeah, and I think to Dave's question, there are solutions like facial recognition which are very much working on identifying the individual. We have a philosophy as a company, that security doesn't necessarily start with the individual, it starts with the aggregate. How do we understand at an aggregate macro level, the patterns in an environment. Which means I don't have to identify Paul, or I don't have to identify Dave. I want to look for what's usual and unusual, and use that as the basis of my response. There's certain instances where you want to know who people are. Do I want to know who my security personnel are so I can dispatch them more efficiently? Absolutely. Let's opt those people in and allow them to share the information they need to share to be better resources for our environment. But, that's the exception not the norm. If we make the norm privacy first, I think we'll be really successful in this emerging GDPR data centric world. >> But I could see somebody down the road saying hey can you help us find this bad guy? And my kids at camp this week, This is his 7th year of camp, and this year was the first year my wife, she was able to sign up for a facial recognition thing. So, we used to have to scroll through hundreds and hundreds of pictures to see oh, there he is! And so Deb signs up for this thing, and then it pings you when your son has a picture taken. >> Yeah. And I was like, That's awesome. Oh. (laughing) >> That's great until you think about it. >> But there aren't really any clear privacy laws today. And so you guys are saying, look it, we're looking at the big picture. >> That's right. >> But that day is coming isn't it? >> There's certain environments that care more than others. If you think about universities, which is where we first started building our technology, they cared greatly about the privacy of their students. Health care is a great example. We want to make sure that we're protecting peoples personal data at a different level. Not only because that's the right thing to do, but also from a regulatory perspective. So, how do we give them the same security without compromising the privacy. >> Talk about Bottom line. You mentioned to us earlier that you just signed a contract with a sports franchise, you're actually going to help them, help save them money by deploying their resources more efficiently. How does your technology help the bottom line? >> Sure, you're average sporting venue, is getting great information at the point a ticket is scanned or a ticket is purchased, they have very little visibility beyond that into the customer journey during an event at their venue. So, if you think about again, patterns of people and flow from a security perspective, at our core we're helping them staff the right gates, or figure out where people need to be based on hot spots in their environment. But, what that also results in is an ability to drive other operational benefits. Do we have a zone that's very low utilization that we could use as maybe even a benefit to our avid fans. Send them to that area, get traffic in that area, and now give them a better concession experience because of it, right? Where they're going to end up spending more money because they're not waiting in line in the different zone. So, how do we give them a dashboard in real time, but also alerts or reports that they can use on an ongoing basis to change their decision making going forward. >> So, give us the company overview. Where are you guys at with funding, head count, all that good stuff. >> So, we raised a seed round with some great Boston and Silicon Valley investors a year ago. So, that was Glasswing is a Boston AI focused fund, has been a great partner for us, and Inovia which is Canada's largest VC fund recently opened a Silicon Valley office. We just started raising a series A about a week ago. I'm excited to say those conversation have been going really well so far. We have some potential strategic partners who we're excited about who know data better then anyone else that we think would help us accelerate our business. We also have a few folks who are very familiar with the large venue space. You know, the distributed campuses, the sporting and entertainment venues. So, we're out looking for the right partner to lead our series A round, and take our business to the next level, but where we are today with five really great branded customers, I think we'll have 20 by the end of next year, and we won't stop fighting 'till we're at every ball park, every football stadium, every convention center, school. >> The big question, at some point will you be able to eliminate security lines? (laughing) >> I don't think that's my core mission. (laughing) But, optimistically I'd love to help you. Right, I think there's some very talented people working on that challenge, so I'll defer that one to them. >> And rough head count today? >> We have 23 people. >> You're 23 people so- >> Yeah, I headquartered in Boston Post Office Square. >> Awesome, great location. So, and you say you've got five customers, so you're generating revenue? >> Yes >> Okay, good. Well, thank you for coming in The Cube >> Yeah, thank you. >> And best of luck with the series A- >> I appreciate it and going forward >> Yeah, great. >> All right, and thank you for watching. Paul Gillin and I will be back right after this short break. This is The Cube from MIT Chief Data Officer Information Quality Conference in Cambridge. We'll be right back. (electronic music)

>> Live from Atlanta, Georgia. It's theCUBE covering Citrix Synergy Atlanta 2019. Brought to you by Citrix. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of Citrix Synergy 2019 from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm Lisa Martin, my co-host for the event is Keith Townsend and Keith and I are excited to talk to one of the Citrix Innovation Award nominees, Indiana University. We have a couple of folks from Indiana University joining us, Stephanie Cox, Manager of Virtual Platform Services and Matt Link, Associate Vice President of Research Technologies. Guys, thanks so much for joining Keith and me. >> Thank you Lisa. >> Thank you. >> And thank you Keith. >> It's an honor to be here, yeah. >> And congratulations on Indiana University being nominated for an innovation award. I was talking with Tim Minahan, their CMO yesterday saying there was over a thousand nominations, so to even get down to being in the top three is pretty exciting stuff. >> Yeah. >> Awesome. >> So talk to us a little bit about Indiana University. You guys, this is a big, big big organization lots of folks accessing the network through lots of devices. Matt, let's start with you, give us that picture of what's going on there. >> Yeah, so IU is about 130,000 students across seven campuses. We got about 20,000 faculty and staff across those seven campuses. One of the things that makes us a little unique is, we're a consolidated IT shop. So, there are 1200 of us at IU that support the entire university and all the campuses. And at any one point in time, there could be 200,000 devices touching the network and using those services. >> Big, that's big. >> Big. >> Wow, that is big. Stephanie talk, talk to us about your virtual imp, footprint and how big is the location. How many data centers? What's the footprint? >> Well we have two data centers, one of them is in Indianapolis which is my home. It's one of our larger campuses, we call it Indiana University Purdue University, affectionately IUPUI. There is a data center there but our larger data center is at the flagship campus which is in, Bloomington, Indiana. >> And, to support 100,000 plus people and, you said at any given second, 200,000 devices. How have you designed that Virtual Integral Structure to enable access to students, faculty, et cetera and employees? >> So from the network perspective we have several network master plans that have rolled and we're in our second 10 year network master plan. And, the network master plan is designed to continually upgrade the network, both the physical network, the infrastructure, and the wireless network. In our last 10 year budget for that was around $170 million of investment just to support the network infrastructure. And then, Stephanie rides on top of that as the Virtual Platform with Citrix to deliver the images anywhere on campus, whether it's wirelessly or whether it's connected via network connection. >> Yep. >> So seven campuses is already a bit. If you ever look at a map, Indiana sits right smack dab in the middle of the country. It's a big space, right before we hit record, we were just talking about that drive up I-65 from Indianapolis to Chicago is just, a lot of rural area and, I'm sure part of your mission is to make sure technology and education is accessible to everyone in Indiana. Talk to us about the challenges of getting connectivity and getting material, virtual classrooms to those remote areas. >> Yeah, that's really one of the major strengths of our partnership with Citrix. They are really the premier remote solution connectivity offering at Indiana University. So, we built our Citrix environment to encompass everyone. We wanted to make sure we could have enough licenses and capacity for all of our 130,000 faculty, staff, and students to use the service. Now do they all show up at the same time? No, thank goodness. >> Thankfully. >> But we do offer it to everyone which is, I found, in the education arena, very unique to Indiana University. Another thing to have the consolidated IT and then to be able to offer a service like ours to everyone and not just restrict it to separate pockets of the university. With that, we've been able to then extend, offering of any application or something that you might need for a class to any of our other remote locations. So, if you're a student who is working in or lives in rural Indiana and you want to get an Indiana University degree, you can do that without having to travel to one of our campus sites or locations. We have a very nice online program and just a lot of other options that we've really tried to offer for remote access. >> So Citrix has really enabled this, I think you call it the IUanyWare, Indiana University Anywhere Program. >> Yeah. >> Tell us about opening up this access to everyone over the time that you've been a Citrix customer how many more people can you guesstimate have access now that didn't not too long ago? >> Yeah, I think initially, and Matt would probably know more before me, before I even came on the scene, I believe that the original use case was really just trying to extend what we were already doing on premise in what we call just our Indiana University lab supported areas. Right, so just your small, like the old days when you would go to your college campus and you go into your computer lab, we just really wanted to virtualize, or expand, the access to just those specific types of apps and computers. And that was an early design, since then over the years we've really kind of, just really expanded. Really use the Citrix platform to redesign and distribute how we deliver the applications and the virtual desktops. So, now not only do we service those students who would normally come onto the campus just to use your traditional computer lab, we do a lot of specialty programs for other schools. Like we deliver a virtual desktop for our dentistry students, they actually use that whole platform in the dental clinic to see real patients our, third tier, third year doctors do that. We also replicated that same thing and do it in our speech and hearing sciences for our future audiologists. We have certain professors that have wanted to take the particular course that they're teaching and extend it to different pockets all over the world so we might host a class from Budapest or Africa somewhere else, wherever that faculty and staff has resources that they know they need to get to and their content already virtualized. We work to make that happen all the time. >> That's, a lot of what you just said is first of all, initially, maybe before Citrix being able to provide support in the computer labs for your maybe seven core campuses, now you're giving 130,000 plus individuals anywhere, anytime access. That is, the X multiplier on that is massive. But you're also gone global, it's not just online, you're able to enable professors to teach in other parts of the world, where it was before it was just people that were in Indiana. >> Right. >> That's massive. >> And you're just limited by the network. So that's the only drawback when you go to the rural areas way out, you're just limited by the network. The initial program was really, really thought of as a cost saving measure. We were going to put thin clients out, we wouldn't have to do life cycle replacements for desktop machines that were getting more expensive and more expensive 10 years ago, and now the way that we look at it is IU wants to provide services across the breadth of the organization, and make those services at no additional cost. And open to everybody. Open access to everybody, the AT desktop, for example is one of, Stephanie is, the brainchild behind the AT desktop. Took three years of dedicated hard work to create an environment to support the visually impaired. >> Talk to us more about that, because that was part of the video and that captured my attention immediately. What is AT? >> Accessibility. >> Technology. >> Technology. >> Accessibility Technology. >> Accessible, is it Accessible Technology? >> Accessible Technology. >> Yeah, I always get that wrong. (laughs) >> So, hundreds, thousands, and not just those that are sight and hearing. >> Right. >> Yeah, so one of the things that I think was, it's just a wonderful thing about working at a university, we're able to buy software licenses in a big quantity, large quantity right, because we have that kind of buying power. Software that I normally never would see or get access to even in my private sector, I've been a Citrix engineer for a long time, but when you come to a university and then you're selling or you're getting licenses for 50, 60, 70, 80,000, you get to see some of these products that you don't normally, as a regular consumer, (laughs) you like it but you know you can't really afford it. So, with that when we started looking at all of the different applications that they could buy in a large quantity site license way we thought oh my goodness, let's virtualize these and make sure everybody gets access to them. And the ones that were really attractive to us were the ones for the visually impaired. Sure they're a niche and they're very, very expensive but we thought let's just try it. We'll see how well they perform in a virtual environment and with our Citrix infrastructure underneath they performed quite well, plus the apps have evolved a great deal over just the last four years. So, we were really proud to offer our virtual desktop to our blind students. We had to work really hard to make sure that the speech recognition software was fast enough for them. It turns out that blind people listen to speech really, really, really, really, really, fast and so we had to make sure that we kept our platformer working on it, to keep it sped and updated so that it's usable to them, right. Seems functional to me, but they, it really needed to be like, 10 times faster. After I found that out, after even shooting the award video and spending even more time with them I thought, why did you guys tell me it was slow to you? But yeah it's been an honor, really, to be up for that award but to work with those students, to learn more about their needs, to learn more about the different applications that people write for people with all disabilities. I hope we can do more in that space. >> So the young man, in, at IUPUI. >> Yes. >> I don't remember his name. >> Chris Lavilla. >> Chris. >> Yes. >> So share, just quickly about Chris' story. >> If, he watches theCUBE I hope he's listening 'cause I think he's kind of remarkable. >> I think this'll really put some, a little bit of icing on that cake because you're taking an environment and you're empowering a student to do what they want to do, versus what they are able or not able to do, so Chris' story is pretty cool of where he wants to go with his college career. >> Yeah, now I won't say he a big proponent user of the virtual desktop because he's just so advanced, he's like way beyond everything. We're learning from him, but he is Indiana University's I believe I'm saying this right, very first biomedical chemical engineer who is blind since birth, completely blind, yes. >> Wow. >> He is, and he's quite a brilliant young man and we're lucky to have him be our, he will test anything for me, and Mary Stores, who's featured in the video Chris Mire, he's also featured in the video I got to remember their names, I mean, it's a whole, I'm lucky to have a whole community of people that will. Yeah, they know, we want to be there for them, we don't always get it right, but we're going to listen and keep trying to move forward, so. >> But, if you kind of think of, even a what, a year or two ago, not being able to give any of this virtualized desktop access to the visually impaired and how many people are now using it? >> Well we open it up to everyone. We have hundreds and hundreds of users but we know not everyone who uses it is blind. People can, you can use it if you want it or not. We don't really understand why some people prefer to use that one over any other but it does have some advantages, there are different levels of sight impairment too, as I've just been educated right. There are some people who are just at the very beginning of that journey of just losing their sight so, if that happens to be someone that we can extend our environment to it's probably better to use it now and get really familiar with that as you transition to losing your sight later in life, I've been told so. >> So you asked a little bit about the scope of the AT desktop, so I'll layer on a little bit of the scope of IUanyWare. Last year around 65,000 individual unique users over, well over a million logins and-- >> 1.4 million. >> 1.4 million. And the average session time was around 41 minutes. >> That's long. >> So. >> Yeah. >> Our instructors teach with it, our clinicians treat people with it, we've built it to house electronic protected health data. >> So HIPA compliance, got to be critical, right? >> It meets the HIPA standard. >> Right. >> Because you can't say compliance anymore because you can't be compliant with a standard. (Stephanie laughing) They've changed that wording several times in the course of the year. >> We know this. >> So, and we are very familiar with meeting the HIPA standard, we've been doing that for about 12 years now, with, where I came from was the high performance computing area of the university so that's my background that I. >> So, one thing we didn't get a chance touch on, 200,000 devices. We're at Citrix, Citrix is a Microsoft partner. Typically when those companies think of 200,000 users they think for profit, this is a niche use case for 200,000 users. Obviously you guys have gotten some great pricing as part of being an education environment. What I would love to hear is, kind of the research stories because the ability to shrink the world, so to speak high HPC, you're giving access to specialized equipment to people who can't get there normally, you have to be physically in front of GPUs, CPUs, et cetera. What other cool things have been coming out of the research side of the house because of the Citrix enablement? >> So, this is cool I mean. >> You got to, got to. (laughs) >> Right, so one of our groups, Researched Software and Solutions stole the idea from Stephanie to provide a research desktop. >> Borrowed. >> Borrowed. >> Imitation, highest form of flattery, Stephanie. >> That's right, absolutely. So what we've done is we always continually to try to reduce the barriers of entry and access. Supercomputing before, you had to be this tall to ride this ride, well now we're down to here. And, with the hopes that we'll go down even farther. So what we've done is we've taken a virtualized desktop, put it in front of the supercomputers, and now you can be wherever you want to be, and have access to HPC at IU. And that's all the systems, so we have four supercomputers And we have 40 petabytes of spinning disc, 160 petabytes of archival tape library so, we're a large shop. And, we couldn't have done it without looking at what Stephanie has done and really looking at that model differently, right? Because to use HPC before you'd have to use a terminal and shell in. And now, looking at IUanyWare, that gives you just the different opportunity to catch a different and more broad customer base. And I call them customers because we try treat them as customers >> Right. >> And it helps the diversity of what you're doing so last year alone our group, Research Technologies supported 151 different departments. We were on 937 different grants. And we support over 330 different disciplines at IU and so it's deep, but it's also very broad, for as large a campus we are and as large an organization as we are, we're fairly nimble even at 1200 people. >> Wow, from what I've heard it's no wonder that what you've done at Indiana University has garnered you the Innovation Award nominee. I can't imagine what is next with all that you have accomplished. Stephanie, Matt, thank you so much for joining Keith and me, we wish you the best of luck. You can go to Citrix.com, search Innovation Awards where you can vote for the three finalists. We wish you the very best of luck. We'll be waiting with bated breath tomorrow to see who wins. >> So will we, thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you Lisa. Thank you Keith. >> Our pleasure. For Keith Townsend, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from Citrix Synergy 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering IBM Think 2019. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to theCube. Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante on our third day here at IBM Think 2019. The second kind of full day of the event. Dave, here we are with this beautiful San Francisco rain. Much needed in California >> I like being back in Moscone, its good. >> It is nice being back in Moscone. Speaking of being back, we are welcoming back to theCUBE Mary O'Brien, the general manager of IBM security. Mary, it's a pleasure to have you on the program. >> Thank you Lisa, Dave. >> Mary. >> So we were just talking before we went live, this event is massive, about 30,000 people. It was standing room only to get into Ginni Rometty's keynote yesterday. >> No you couldn't get in. >> Couldn't get in, >> They closed, they shut the doors out >> I think she said this is the closest that she'll ever be to an iPhone launch. That must be like rockstar status. Four campuses, 2,000 different sessions, there is here a Security and Resiliency campus. >> Yes there is. >> Which must be exciting for you, >> It certainly is. >> but talk to us about security is such a pervasive challenge that any organization faces. You were saying, there's nearly two million by the year 2020 nearly two million unfilled security roles. Talk to us about security at IBM and how you're using technologies, like AI, to help combat the problem, this prolific problem that cyber security is bringing. >> Okay, so I can start by saying security is everybody's problem. It's a problem faced by every business, everyday and as businesses modernize and they become more digital and move to the Cloud, there's cyber security nightmares and cyber security problems are only getting greater, okay? So, you know couple that with the fact that, as you say, by 2020, and ever body has a different variation of this statistic, but we're working on the basis that by 2020, there will be in the region of two million, unfilled, cyber security posts around the world. So at IBM Security, we're looking to understand how we can reduce the complexity, reduce the need for vast numbers of staff and augment our capabilities, all of our products and services, with artificial intelligence in order to relieve this gross skills gap. >> Well, I have to say, this is our 10th year now doing theCUBE Lisa and I was downstairs earlier and I saw, I guess I call him my friend, Pat Gelsinger, was walking into the keynote and a little high five and nine years ago I asked Pat Gelsinger on theCUBE, is security a do-over because of Cloud and he said flat out yes, it actually is. So I wonder, so much has changed in the last decade. You mentioned data, you mentioned artificial intelligence, the bad guys have gotten way more sophisticated, you have this new thing called The Edge and so I don't know if it's a do-over or evolving rapidly, but what are your thoughts on the changing nature of security? >> Well I think the security landscape is changing for sure and the attack surface is changing because you've got to remember that as all of our and more and more devices and all of our devices become smarter and become connected to the internet, we're basically just increasing the attack surface and increasing the opportunity for cyber attacks and cyber criminals to hack in and get into our networks. Okay, so you know as we move to the Cloud and we embrace an API economy, so we're using API's to access you know our applications then you know once again, we're opening up our capabilities. Open means open to us and to others and so the need to design security into everything we do and not append security as a perimeter around what we create is becoming more and more important. >> Well we can't do that just 'cause I think something also that you mentioned, sorry David, with the proliferation of devices, you know billions of devices, the perimeter is so amorphis, there's en clays on top of en clays on top of en clays >> Absolutely. >> I'm curious though, how is AI from IBM going to help companies protect themselves from their people, who might not be doing things necessarily maliciously, unintentionally, but that's one of the biggest common denominators I think in security that's the biggest, how do we protect from people? >> You nailed it. I mean I can not remember the stat, but I do know that more than 50% of breeches result from the inside and that's not necessarily people being malicious. I mean you have a combination of people who just don't adopt the best security policies, so they're not using strong passwords, they're clicking on links, they're answering phone calls, they're doing something that's a little bit sloppy or a little bit insecure and then of course you'll have the malicious insider. There aren't very many of them, but they do exist. So the way the security industry is evolving to protect ourselves against the insider is firstly to look at access to our crowned jewels and to make sure that only the people who need access to our crowned jewels and to the most important assets within our businesses have that access. Okay, firstly, now secondly, we are developing capabilities that we call user based analytics, user behavioral analytics. So we actually profile, what is the normal behavior of a user. So a user, in their job role, who works the pattern that is normal for that user. You know, what is a normal behavior for that user so that we allow the machine and the algorithms to learn that normal behavior so that when that behavior becomes different or when that user does something anomalous, that we can trigger an action, we can trigger an alert, we can do something about it. So user behavior analytics is the way we apply machine learning, artificial intelligence, to the problem to keep us safe from the insider fumbling, yes. >> Another big change and I want to make a comment, is the way in which organizations approach security at the board level. It's become a board level topic. The conversation between whether its the CSO or the CIO and the board has evolved from really one of, oh yeah, we're doing everything we possibly can to we're going to get breached, it's all about our response to that breech and here's the response mechanism and so I wonder if based on your conversations Mary, with executives, what you're seeing, what are they asking from IBM, just in terms of helping them specifically respond to the inevitable breaches? >> Okay, so there's a wide range of responses to that question. And it depends where you are on the globe, how sensitized the board is to security situations. They're all sensitized, but there are some parts of the globe where a breach of a regulation can put a board member in prison. So you know, there's a motivation to >> They're paying attention >> They're paying attention okay, but you know across the board, we're seeing that the board has evolved their attention, based on the fact that security used to be driven by compliance. It used to be driven by ticking a box to say you had a database protection in place and you had x, y, z in place. People became more sensitized to the next attack so what was the next threat, what was the next attack on their, the next piece of malware, the next piece of ransomware, but now people have really got to the point and the board have really got to the point where they really realize that this isn't about when an adversary gets into your network or gets into your enterprise or your business. They get in. It's about how you respond to it, how you find them, how you remove them, how you respond to the breach so at IBM security, we put a huge focus on training boards and their teams in how to respond to an instance because we've got to get to a point where the response is muscle memory so that everybody knows their role, they know how they behave and we're back to the people discussion again because everybody, from the person who is at your reception desk, who may be the first person to meet the media as they come in your doors after an event, to the CSO who has responsibility to the President or CEO, needs to understand their role and when they parttake or when they back away and let the experts partake during the course of an incident. >> One of the things too that's been widely known is it's taken upwards of two to 300 days before breaches are detected. How is IBM helping infuse AI into, not just the portfolio, but also the practices and behaviors to start reducing that so it doesn't take as long to identify a breach that can cost millions of dollars? >> So yes, what were doing here is we're working to reduce the complexity in peoples cyber programs. So if you consider that in many of our clients shops, we will find up to 80 different security products from 40 different vendors and that's an average that has been taken over time and we use that statistic all the time. Basically you have all of these tools and all of these products that have been bought to solve a security threat djure over several decades and they're all residing, all of these products, not talking to one another. So at IBM Security, what we're doing is we're applying technology and our capabilities to bring together the insights from all of these tools and to ensure that we can actually knit them together, correlate those insights, to give a more holistic view, a faster view, of what's relevant, what's pertinent to you in your industry, in your geo, in your business. So we look for the insights that are indicative of the most significant threat to you to help you get there, sort it, eradicate it, quarantine, or whatever you need to do to eliminate it. >> How about the skills gap? We talk about that a lot on theCUBE. There's more security professionals needed than are out there. What can you do about that? Is machine intelligence a possible answer? Helping people automate a response? What do you see? >> Absolutely So there's a number of different responses. Absolutely, infusing artificial intelligence and finding ways of reducing the amount of the amount of security data, the amount of security alerts that need to be responded to. So firstly you need to reduce the noise so that you can find the needle in the haystack and our capabilities with machine learning and artificial intelligence and the various different algorithms we build into our products help along the way there. So you have that. In addition to that, you always have a need for the people, for the experts so making sure that we infuse all of our practices, the people who are foot soldiers on the street, our consultants, our practitioners, to make sure that we hire the best, the brightest and we put them around the geo so that they are distributed and able to help our clients. And then you heard Ginni yesterday talk about various different means of accelerating our ability to bring more people into the workforce using our P-TECH initiative within IBM, so we're looking to go out to schools, where you wouldn't necessarily have a feed or kids with an opportunity, to find jobs in the cyber security space or in many professional spaces. Finding them, training them, tapping them, encouraging them and we've seen several people come through the P-TECH schools into the cyber security space and we've also embraced the return to work for people who have taken career breaks either to mind elderly relatives or to bring up kids or whatever, so we have a number of programs running in various parts of the world where we're introducing people back into the workforce and training them to become cyber experts. >> I got to ask you, as a security executive, does Quantum keep you up at night? >> Um, Quantum does not keep me up at night because IBM are the leaders in this space and as leaders in this space, we work with the researchers and developers in the IBM research labs, to ensure that our security practices are keeping in lock-step with Quantum and our algorithms are changing so that we can stay ahead of the Quantum race. >> It's in the hands of the good guys right now. >> It certainly is >> Let's keep it that way if we can. >> Last question Mary, there is, as I mentioned in the very beginning, four campuses here where the 30,000 plus attendees can learn. What are some of the things that you're excited that the attendees here, customers, perspective customers, partners, analysts, press are going to see, touch and feel from the Security and Resiliency Campus? >> At the Security and Resiliency Campus, the people here can see some of our latest innovations and capabilities and they can see our new platform. Our new security platform is called IBM Security Connect and this is you know, our capability that we just launched to actually reduce the complexity in people's cyber programs and help bring lots of these products, these siloed products and the insights from them together, to give a much sharper view of the threat to your business. So there's a very good demonstration of that. You can see a very good demonstration of the breath of our portfolio. You can talk to some of our consultants. Talk to our instant response specialists, you know, you can be scared about what's out there and see that your security is in good hands if you work with us. >> It sounds like a security candy store down there. We should go check it out. >> Yeah >> It sure is. >> Check out the flavors. >> Exactly. Thanks so much for stopping by >> Thank you. >> Sharing with us what's new >> Great to see you again Mary. >> In IBM security and also how you guys are helping to influence behavior. I think that's a really important element. We thank you and we look forward to talking to you again. >> Thank you very much. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante, live IBM Think 2019 on theCUBE. Stick around, we'll be right back shortly with our next guest. (tech music)

>> Live, from Las Vegas! It's theCube! Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone, it's theCube's live coverage in Las Vegas for VMworld 2018, it's theCube. We got two sets, 24 interviews per day, 94 interviews total. Next three days, we're in day two of three days coverage. It's our ninth year of covering VMworld. It's been great. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, next guest, Cube alumni, number one in the leading boards right now, Sanjay Poonen did a great job today on stage, keynote COO for VMware. Great to have you back. Thanks for coming on. >> John and Dave, you're always so kind to me, but I didn't realize you've been doing this nine years. >> This is our ninth year. >> That's half the life of VMware, awesome. Unreal. Congratulations. >> We know all the stories, all the hidden, nevermind, let's talk about your special day today. You had a really, so far, an amazing day, you were headlining the key note with a very special guest, and you did a great job. I want you to tell the story, who was on, what was the story about, how did this come about? Tech for good, a big theme in this conference has really been getting a lot of praise and a lot of great feedback. Take us through what happened today. >> Well listen, I think what we've been trying to do at VMware is really elevate our story and our vision. Elevate our partnerships, you've covered a lot of the narrative of what we've done with Andy Jessie. We felt this year, we usually have two 90 minute sessions, Day One, Day Two, and it's filled with content. We're technical company, product. We figured why don't we take 45 minutes out of the 180 minutes total and inspire people. With somebody who's had an impact on the world. And when we brainstormed, we had a lot of names suggested, I think there was a list of 10 or 15 and Malala stood out, she never spoke at a tech conference before. I loved her story, and we're all about education. The roots of VMware were at Stamford Campus. Diane Greene, and all of that story. You think about 130 million girls who don't go to school. We want to see more diversity in inclusion, and she'd never spoken so I was like, you know what, usually you go to these tech conferences and you've heard somebody who's spoken before. I'm like, lets invite her and see if she would come for the first time, and we didn't think she would. And we were able to score that, and I was still a little skeptical 'cause you never know is it going to work out or not. So thank you for saying it worked, I think we got a lot of good feedback. >> Well, in your first line, she was so endearing. You asked her what you thought a tech conference, you said too many acronyms. She just cracked the place up immediately. >> And then you heard my response, right? If somebody tells me like that, you tell VMotion wrong she looked at me what? >> Tell them about our story, real quick, our story I want to ask you a point in question. Her story, why her, and what motivated you to get her? >> Those stories, for any of you viewers, you should read the book "I'm Malala" but I'll give you the short version of the story. She was a nine year old in the Pashtun Area of the Swat Valley in Pakistan, and the Taliban setted a edict that girls could not go to school. Your rightful place was whatever, stay at home and become a mom with babies or whatever have you. You cannot go to school. And her father ran a school, Moster Yousafzai, wonderful man himself, an educator, a grandfather, and says know what, we're going to send you to school. Violating this order, and they gave a warning after warning and finally someone shot her in 2012, almost killed her. The bullet kind of came to her head, went down, and miraculously she escaped. Got on a sort of a hospital on a plane, was flown to London, and the world if you remember 2012, the world was following the story. She comes out of this and she's unscathed. She looks normal, she has a little bit of a thing on the right side of her face but her brains normal, everything's normal. Two years later she wins the Nobel Peace Prize. Has started the Malala Fund, and she is a force of nature, an amazing person. Tim Cook has been doing a lot with her in the Malala Fund. I think that actually caught my attention when Tim Cook was working with her, and you know whatever Apple does often gets a little bit of attention. >> Well great job selecting her. How's that relevant to what you guys are doing now, because you guys had a main theme Tech for Good? Why now, why VMware? A lot of people are looking at this, inspired by it. >> There are milestones in companies histories. We're at our 20 year birthday, and I'm sure at people's birthday they want to do big things, right? 20, 30, 40, 50, these decades are big ones and we thought, lets make this year a year to remember in various things we do. We had a 20 year anniversary celebration on campus, we invited Diane Greene back. It was a beautiful moment internally at Vmware during one of our employee meetings. It was a private moment, but just with her to thank her. And man, there were people emotional almost in tears saying thank you for starting this company. A way to give back to us, same way here. What better way to talk about the impact we're having in the community than have someone who is of this reputation. >> Well we're behind your mission 100%, anything you need. We loved the message, Tech for Good, people want to work for a mission driven company. People want to buy >> We hope so. >> from mission driven companies, that stated clear and the leadership you guys are providing is phenomenal. >> We had some rankings that came out around the same time. Fortune ranked companies who are changing the world, and VMware was ranked 17th overall, of all companies in the world and number one in the software category. So when you're trying to change the world, hopefully as you pointed out it's also an attractor of talent. You want to come here, and maybe even attractor of customers and partners. >> You know the other take-away was from the key note was how many Cricket fans there are in the VMworld Community. Of course we have a lot of folks from India, in our world but who's your favorite Cricketer? Was it Sachin Tendulkar? (laughs) >> Clearly you're reading off your notes Dave! >> Our Sonya's like our, >> Dead giveaway! >> Our Sonya's like our Cricket Geek and she's like, ask him about Sachin, no who's your favorite Cricketer, she wants to know. >> Sachin Tendulkar's way up there, Shayuda Free, the person she likes from Pakistan. I grew up playing cricket, listen I love all sports now that I'm here in this country I love football, I love basketball, I like baseball. So I'll watch all of them, but you know you kind of have those childhood memories. >> Sure >> And the childhood memories were like she talk about, India, Pakistan games. I mean this was like, L.A. Dodgers playing Giants or Red Socks, Yankee's, or Dallas Cowboys and the 49ers, or in Germany playing England or Brazil in the World Cup. Whatever your favorite country or team rivalry is, India Pakistan was all there more, but imagine like a billion people watching it. >> Yeah, well it was a nice touch on stage, and I'd say Ted Williams is my favorite cricketer, oh he plays baseball, he's a Red Sock's Player. Alright Sanjay, just cause your in the hot seat, lets get down to business here. Great moment on stage, congratulation. Okay Pat Gelsinger yesterday on the key note talked about the bridges, VMware bridging, connecting computers. One of the highlights is kind of in your wheelhouse, it's in your wheelhouse, the BYOD, Bring Your Own Device bridge. You're a big part of that. Making that work on on the mobile side. Now with Cloud this new bridge, how is that go forward because you still got to have all those table stakes, so with this new bridge of VMware's in this modern era, cloud and multicloud. Cluely validated, Andy Jassy, on stage. Doing something that Amazon's never done before, doing something on premise with VMware, is a huge deal. I mean we think it's a massive deal, we think it's super important, you guys are super committed to the relationship on premises hybrid cloud, multicloud, is validated as far as we're concerned. It's a done deal. Now ball's in your court, how are you going to bring all that mobile together, security, work space one, what's your plan? >> I would say that, listen on as I described in my story today there's two parts to the VMware story. There's a cloud foundation part which is the move the data center to the cloud in that bridge, and then there's the desk job move it to the mobile. Very briefly, yes three years of my five years were in that business, I'm deeply passionate about it. Much of my team now that I put in place there, Noah and Shankar are doing incredible jobs. We're very excited, and the opportunity's huge. I said at my key note of the seven billion people that live in the world, a billion I estimate, work for some company small or big and all of them have a phone. Likely many of those billion have a phone and a laptop, like you guys have here, right? That real estate of a billion in a half, maybe two billion devices, laptops and phones, maybe in some cases laptop, phone, and tablets. Someone's going to manage and secure, and their diverse across Apple, Google, big option for us. We're just getting started, and we're already the leader. In the data center, the cloud world, Pat, myself, Raghu, really as we sat three years ago felt like we shouldn't be a public cloud ourselves. We divested vCloud Air, as I've talked to you on your show before, Andy Jassy is a friend, dear friend and a classmate of mine from Harvard Business School. We began those discussions the three of us. Pat, Raghu, and myself with Andy and his team and as every quarter and year has gone on they become deeper and deep partnerships. Andy has told other companies that VMware Amazon is the model partnership Amazon has, as they describe who they would like to do business more with. So we're proud when they do that, when we see that happen. And we want to continue that. So when Amazon came to us and said listen I think there's an opportunity to take some of our stack and put it on premise. We kept that confidential cause we didn't want it to leak out to the world, and we said we're going to try'n annouce it at either VMworld or re:Invent. And we were successful. A part with these projects is they inevitably leak. We're really glad no press person sniffed it out. There was a lot of speculation. >> Couldn't get confirmation. >> There was a lot of speculation but no one sniffed it out and wrote a story about it, we were able to have that iPhone moment today, I'm sorry, yesterday when we unveiled it. And it's a big deal because RDS is a fast growing business for them. RDS landing on premise, they could try to do on their own but what better infrastructure to land it on than VMware. In some cases would be VMware running on VxRail which benefits Dell, our hardware partners. And we'll continue doing more, and more, and more as customers desire, so I'm excited about it. >> Andy doesn't do deals, as you know Andy well as we do. He's customer driven. Tell me about the customer demand on this because it's something we're trying to get reporting on. Obviously it makes sense, technically the way it's working. You guys and Andy, they just don't do deals out of the blue. There's customer drivers here, what are those drivers? >> Yeah, we're both listening to our customers and perhaps three, four, five years ago they were very focused on student body left, everybody goes public cloud. Like forget your on premise, evaporate, obliterate your data centers and just go completely public. That was their message. >> True, sweep the floor. >> Right, if you went to first re:Invent I was there on stage with them as an SAP employee, that's what I heard. I think you fast forward to 2014, 2015 they're beginning to realize, hey listen it's not as easy. Refactoring your apps, migrating those apps, what if we could bring the best of private cloud and public cloud together enter VMware and Amazon. He may have felt it was harder to have those cultivations of VMware or for all kinds of reasons, like we had vCloud Air and so on and so forth but once we divested that decision culminations had matured between us that door opened. And as that door opened, more culminations began. Jointly between us and with customers. We feel that there are customers who want many of those past type of services of premise. Cause you're building great things, relational database technology, AI, VI maybe. IoT type of technologies if they are landing on premise in an edge-computing kind of world, why not land on VMware because we're the king of the private cloud. We're very happy to those, we progress those discussion. I think in infrastructure software VMware and Amazon have some of the best engineers on the planet. Sometimes we've engineers who've gone between both companies. So we were able to put our engineering team's together. This is a joint engineering effort. Andy and us often talk about the fact that great innovation's built when it's not just Barny go to Marketing and Marketing press releases this. The true joint engineering at a deep level. That's what happened the last several months. >> Well I can tell you right now the commitment I've seen from an executive level and deep technology, both sides are deep and committed to this. It's go big or go home, at least from our perspective. Question I want to ask you Sanjay is you're close to the customer's of VMware. What's the growth strategy? If you zoom out, look down on stage and you got vSAN, NSX at the core, >> vSANjay (laughs) >> How can you not like a product that has my name on it? >> So you got all these things, where's the growth going to come from, the merging side, is the v going to be the stable crown jewels at NSX? How do you guys see the growth, where's it going to come from? >> Just kind of look at our last quarter. I mean if you peel back the narrative, John and Dave, two years ago we were growing single digits. Like low single digits. Two, three percent. That was, maybe the legacy loser description of VMware was the narrative everyone was talking about >> License revenue was flattish right? >> And then now all of sudden we're double digits. 12, 15 sort of in that range for both product revenue. It's harder to grow faster when you're bigger, and what's happened is that we stabilize compute with vSphere in that part and it's actually been growing a little bit because I think people in the VMware cloud provider part of our business, and the halo effect of the cloud meant that as they refresh the servers they were buying more research. That's good. The management business has started to grow again. Some cases double digits, but at least sort of single digits. NSX, the last few order grew like 30, 40%. vSAN last year was growing 100% off a smaller base, this year going 60, 70%. EUC has been growing double digits, taking a lot of share from company's like Citrix and MobileIron and others. And now, also still growing double digits at much bigger paces, and some of those businesses are well over a billion. Compute, management, end-user computing. We talked about NSX on our queue forming called being a 1.4 billion. So when you get businesses to scale, about a billion dollar type businesses and their sort of four, training five that are in that area, and they all get to grow faster than the market. That's the key, you got to get them going fast. That's how you get growth. So we focus on those on those top five businesses and then add a few more. Like VMware Cloud on AWS, right now our goal is customer logo count. Revenue will come but we talked on our earnings call about a few hundred customers of VMware Cloud and AWS. As that gets into the thousands, and there's absolutely that option, why? Because there's 500,000 customers of VMware and two million customers of Amazon, so there's got to be a lot of commonality between those two to get a few thousand. Then we'll start caring about revenue there too, but once you have logos, you have references. Containers, I'd like to see PKS have a few hundred customers and then, we put one on stage today. National Commercial Bank of Jamaica. Fantastic story of PKS. I even got my PKS socks for this interview. (John laughs) >> So that give you a sense as to how we think, there will be four, five that our businesses had scale and then a few are starting to get there, and they become business to scale. The nature of software is we'll always be doing this show because there will be new businesses to talk about. >> Yeah, hardware is easy. Software is hard, as Andy Patchenstien said on theCUBE yesterday. Congratulations Sanjay and all the success, you guys are doing great financially. Products looking really good coming out, the bloom is rising from the fruit you guys have harvested, coming together. >> John if I can say one last thing, I shared a picture of a plane today and I put two engines behind it. There's something I've learned over the last years about focus of a company, and I joked about different ways that my name's are pronounced but at the core of me there's a DNA. I said on stage I'd rather not be known as smart or stupid but having a big heart. VMware, I hope is known by our customers as having these two engines. An engine of innovation, innovating product and a variety of other things. And focused on customer obsession. We do those, the plane will go a long way. >> And it's looking good you guys, we can say we've been to Radio Event, we've been doing a lot of great stuff. Congratulations on the initiative, and a great interview with you today on doing Tech for Good and sharing your story. Getting more exposure to the kind of narratives people want to hear. More women in tech, more girls in tech, more democratization. Congratulations and thanks so much for sharing. >> Thank you John and Dave. >> Appreciate you being here. >> Sanjay Poonen, COO of VMware. Friend of theCUBE, Cube Alumni, overall great guy. Big heart and competitive too, we know that from his Twitter stream. Follow Sanjay on Twitter. You'll have a great time. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, stay with us for more coverage from day two live, here in Las Vegas for VMware 2018. Stay with us. (tech music)

(upbeat music) >> On the Amazon Meeting Center. In downtown Seattle. It's theCUBE. Covering Imagine a Better World. A global education conference, sponsored by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeffrey here with theCUBE. We're in Seattle, Washington at the AWS Imagine education conference. It's the first one. Teresa Carlson just kicked off the keynote. About 900 registrants from over 20 countries worldwide. We saw it happen with the public sector before. They went from 50 people to 15 thousand, I think she said in seven years. I'm imagining that Imagine is going to have the same track. Cause education is so, so important. And we're excited our next guest came all the way from the other side of the pond. The other side of the Atlantic. He's Peter O'Rourke, Director of IT for the University of Suffolk. Peter, great to see ya. >> Thanks Jeff for the welcome. Yes it's been fantastic to be here with this exciting crowd. And as Teresa said it would be great to be here in seven years. At a huge event. >> A huge event, it'll probably be in Vegas. They like to have those big ones down in Vegas. So what brings you here? It's a long way, education is clearly super important. Digital transformation and cloud. We see it all over the place. But what's the application that you're looking at, what are you excited about in bringing kind of cloud economics to the University of Suffolk? >> Well Jeff, the key thing in education has got to be about students' experience. And that's the thing we've got to keep driving at all the time. What's exciting about partners like Amazon is the potential that they talk about. It's not what they're doing today. It's what they're talking about and going to do tomorrow and the day after. And as I've just said, this is day one. >> Right. >> This is an exciting journey to engage with. With these partners. >> So how have the student experience kind of expectations morphed over time? As you get kind of digital-native kids coming up into the school now and kind of, you know we've seen it on the business side. The consumerization of IT cause people expect their interactions with their companies, their banks and their retailers to be like it is with their phone and computer. How are you seeing the expectations change from your students on what they want and how they want to interact with all the services that you guys provide them. >> Good question. And again the mobile phone is the key here. People arrive at your organizations, whether they are universities or retail establishments. And they already know how they're going to work with you. And when you can't do that. That's a huge disappointment. So these people are using things in their daily life. To arrange trips, theater tickets, cinema. And when you can't work like that, there's a huge disconnect. >> Right, right. The other big issue that happens I've seen more and more is mobile. And you know, universities. You guys are always limited on space. >> Yeah. >> There's always lots of construction and new buildings and new labs and new academic offices and classrooms. So space is always an issue. How does you know, mobile specifically as you mentioned, enable you to provide a different experience, a better experience, a more varied experience when you've got all these other kind of constraints you're faced with. >> How mobile can help with that. It's about allowing your users to consume their content where and when they want to. It's exactly how they live their daily lives. So you know maybe you can't a lecture today. But why should that really matter? >> Right. >> You should be able to pick this up later. >> Right. And that last piece is the staff. And you know a lot of the teachers weren't necessarily educated in CS. That wasn't kind of why they got into the business. Especially if they are in say, history or philosophy. Or some of maybe the softer sciences. How are you seeing their adoption of technology to be, you know don't be afraid of it. This actually can be a great enabler to help you do your job better. How are you seeing their adoption of some of this technology in some of the softer academic areas? >> Well, again good question. But it's a huge challenge. I think for too long what we've tried to do from a technology perspective. Is to turn absolutely brilliant academic colleagues into technologists. And that's not why they came into education. >> Right. >> What's exciting about what's happening now is that we're able to enable them to use much, much simpler technology tools or interfaces that are actually doing amazing things in the background. And they don't need to understand how it does it. And that's the way it should be. >> Right. So last question. What are you expecting to get out of this conference for a day and a half here in Seattle? Ton of educators, ton of people from your indsutry. First ever event of this type for AWS. What are you hoping to take away? >> I'm hoping to take away a ton of exciting ideas. That are almost impossible to install. But there's going to be one or two gems in there that we can work with people like Amazon going forward. And we're going to come back in a year's time. And we'll want to talk about what we've done. >> Right. >> That's the exciting thing. >> That is the key right, what have you done? >> Yes. >> And now with cloud you can do, they've talked about a project in the keynote that was three months from ideation to actually starting to ship stuff. So we can do it. >> That's what we've got to do. >> Right alright Peter, well thanks for taking a few minutes of your day. And good luck with the rest of the conference. >> Thanks Jeff, thanks for talking to me. >> Alright, Peter, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're at AWS Imagine Education in Seattle, Washington. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Live from the MIT Campus in Cambridge, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Covering the 12th Annual MIT chief data officer and Information Quality Symposium. Brought to you by: SiliconANGLE Media. >> Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of MITCDOIQ here in Cambridge, Massachusetts on the MIT Campus. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Peter Burris. Peter, it's a pleasure to be here with you. Thanks for joining me. >> Absolutely, good to see you again, Rebecca. >> These are my stomping grounds. >> Ha! >> So welcome to Massachusetts. >> It's an absolutely beautiful day in Cambridge. >> It is, it is, indeed. I'm so excited to be hosting this with you, what do you think, this is about chief data officer information quality. We're really going to get inside the heads of these chief data officers, find out what's on their minds, what's keeping them up at night, how are they thinking about data, how are they pricing it, how are they keeping it clean, how are they optimizing it, exploiting it, how are they hiring for it? What do you think is the top issue of the day, in your mind. There's a lot to talk about here, what's number one? >> Well, I think the first thing, Rebecca, is that if you're going to have a chief in front of your name then, at least in my mind, that means the Board has directed you to generate some return on the assets that you've been entrusted with. I think the first thing that the CDO, the chief data officer, has to do is start to do a better job of pricing out the value of data, demonstrating how they're turning it into assets that can be utilized and exploited in a number of different ways to generate returns that are actually superior to some of the other assets in the business because data is getting greater investment these days. So I think the first thing is, how are you turning your data into an asset, because if you're not, why are you achieve anything? >> (laughs) No, that's a very good point. The other thing we were talking about before the cameras were rolling, is the role of the CDO, chief data officer, and the role of the CIO, chief information officer, and how those roles differ. I mean is that something that we're going to get into today? What do you think? >> I think it's something certainly to ask a lot of the chief data officers that are coming on, there's some confusion in the industry about what the relationship should be and how the roles are different. The chief data officer as a concept, has been around for probably 10-12 years, something like that. I mean, the first time I heard it was probably 2007-2008. The CIO role has always been about information, but it ended up being more about the technology, and then the question was, what does a Chief Technology Officer does? Well it was a Chief Technology Officer could have had a different role, but they also seem to be increasing the responsible for the technology. So if you look at a lot organizations that have a CDO, the CIO looks more often to be the individual in charge of the IT assets, the technology officer tends to be in charge of the IT infrastructure, and the CDO tends to be more associated with, again, the role that the data plays, increasingly associated with analytics. But I think, over the next few years, that set of relationships is going to change, and new regimes will be put in place as businesses start to re-institutionalize their work around their data, and what it really means to have data as an asset. >> And the other role we've not mentioned is the CDO, Chief Digital Officer, which is the convergence of those two roles as well. How do you see, you started out by saying this is really about optimizing the data and finding a way to make money from it. >> Or generate a return. >> Generate a return, exactly! Find value in it, exactly. >> One of the things about data, and one of the things about IT, historically, is that it often doesn't generate money directly, but rather indirectly, and that's one of the reasons why it has been difficult to sustain investments in. The costs are almost always direct, so if I invest in an IT project, for example, the costs show up immediately but the benefits come through whatever function I just invested in the application to support. And the same thing exists with data. So if we take a look at the Chief Digital Officer, often that's a job that has been developed largely close or approximate to the COO to better understand how operations are going to change as a consequence of an increasing use of data. So, the Chief Digital Officer is often an individual whose entrusted to think about as we re-institutionalize work around data, what is that going to mean to our operations and our engagement models too? So, I think it's a combination of operations and engagement. So the Chief Digital Officer is often very proximate to the COO thinking about how data is going to change the way organization works, change the way the organization engages, from a strategic standpoint first, but we're starting to see that role move more directly into operations. I don't want to say compete with the COO, but work much more closely with them in an operational level. >> Right, and of course, depending organization to organization. >> It's always different, and to what degree are your assets historically data-oriented, like if you're a media company or if you're a financial services company, those are companies that are very strong lineages of data as an asset. If you're a manufacturing company, and you're building digital twins, like a GE or something along those lines, then you might be a little bit newer to the game, but still you have to catch up because data is going to mush a lot of industries together, and it's going to to be hard to parse some of these industries in five to ten years. >> Well, precisely, one of the things you said was that the CDO, as a role, is really only 11-12 years old. In fact that this conference is in its 12th year, so really it started at the very beginning of the CDO journey itself, and we're now amidst the CDO movement. I mean, what do you think, how is the CDO thinking about his or her role within the larger AI revolution? >> Well, that's a great question, and it's one of the primary reasons why it's picking up pace. We've had a number of different technology introductions over the past 15 - 20 years that have bought us here. The notion of virtualizing machines changed or broke that relationship between applications and hardware. The idea of very high speed, very flexible, very easy to manage data center networking broke the way that we thought about how resources could be bought together. Very importantly, in the last six or seven years, the historical norm for storage was disc, which was more emphasized how do I persist the data that results from a transaction, and now we're moving to flash, and flash-based systems, which is more about how can I deliver data to new types of applications. That combination of things makes it possible to utilize a lot of these AI algorithms and a lot of these approaches to AI, many of which the algorithms have been around for 40-50 years, so we're catalyzing a new era in which we can think about delivering data faster with higher fidelity, with lower administrative costs because we're not copying everything and putting it in a lot of different places. That is making it possible to do these AI things. That's precisely one of the factors that's really driving the need to look at data as an asset because we can do more with it than we ever have before. You know, it's interesting, I have a little bromide, when people ask me what's really going on in the industry, what I like to say is for the first 50 years of the industry, it was known process, unknown technology. We knew we were going to do accounting, we knew we were going to do HR, there was largely given to us legal or regulatory or other types of considerations, but the unknown was, do we put it on a mainframe? Do we put it on a (mumbles) Do we use a database manager? How distributed is this going to be? We're now moving into an era where it's unknown process because we're focused on engagement or the role that data can play in changing operations, but the technology is going to be relatively common. It's going to be Cloud or Cloud-like. So, we don't have quite as, it's not to say that technology questions go away entirely, they don't, but it's not as focused on the technology questions, we can focus more on the outcomes, but we have a hard time challenging those outcomes or deciding what those outcomes are going to be, and that's one of the interesting things here. We're not only using data to deliver the outcomes, we're also using data to choose what outcomes to pursue. So it's an interesting recursive set of activities where the CDO is responsible for helping the business decide what are we going to do and also, how are we going to do it? >> Well, exactly. That's an excellent point, because there are so many, one of the things that we've heard about on the main stage this morning is the difficulty a lot of CDOs get with just buy-in, and really understanding, this is important, and this is not as important or this is what we're going to do, this is what we're saying the data is telling us, and these are the actions we're going to take. How do you change a culture? How do you get people to embrace it? >> Well, this is an adoption challenge, and an adoption challenges are always met by showing returns quickly and sustainably. So one of the first things, which is why I said, one of the first things that a CDO has to do is show the organization how data can be thought of as an asset, because once you do that, now you can start to describe some concrete returns that you are able to help deliver as a consequence of your chief role. So that's probably the first thing. But, I think, one of the other things to do is to start doing things like demonstrating the role that information quality plays within an organization. Now, information quality is almost always measured in terms of the output or the outcomes that it supports, but there are questions of fidelity, there are questions of what data are we going to use, what data are we not going to use? How are we going to get rid of data? There's a lot of questions related to information quality that have process elements to them, and those processes are just now being introduced to the organization, and doing a good job of that, and acculturating people to understanding the role of equality plays, information quality plays, is another part of it. So I think you have to demonstrate that you have conceived and can execute on a regime of value, and at the same time you have to demonstrate that you have particular insight into some of those on-going processes that are capable of sustaining that value. It's a combination of those two things that, I think, the chief data officer's going to have to do to demonstrate that they belong at the table, on-going. >> Well, today we're going to be talking to an array of people, some from MIT who study this stuff >> I hear they're smart people. >> Yeah, maybe. A little bit. We'll see, we'll see. MIT, some people from the US Government, so CDOs from the US Army, the Air Force, we've got people from industry too, we've also got management consultants coming on to talk about some best practices, so it's going to be a great day. We're going to really dig in here. >> Looking forward to it. >> Yes. I'm Rebecca Knight, for Peter Burris, we will have more from MITCDOIQ in just a little bit. (techno music)

from the silicon angle media office in Boston Massachusetts it's the queue now here's your host David on tape so cube conversations simplifying blockchain for developers remi karpadito is here is the CEO of espresso remy thanks for coming in yeah thanks for having yeah so you guys are in the Seaport we want to hear all the action that's going on there but let's start with espresso CEO founder or co-founder um not a co-founder founder okay good just to clarify with respect to your co-founders voice why did you guys start espresso yeah no it starts back on in a little bit little while ago we originally wanted to and a replace our first company was a company called campus towel and we want to replace student identity with NFC chips and smart phones and it was a really cool concept back in 2010 but at the time there's only one phone that had the technology capable of pulling the south and we built a prototype with that smart phone as a Samsung phone at the time and we brought that around to a dozen plus colleges showing hey you could replace the student ID with the phone you can just tap your phone to it for attendance for events etc and they loved it but everyone had the same question you know when is the iPhone can have the technology and we were three years early the iPhone didn't come up with NFC chips until 2013 and we ended up hitting into a mentoring platform and scaled that company October 70 colleges across the country but ironically enough we came back to the same issue a lot of CIOs and CTOs wants to interface with their single sign-on servers which required us to support this legacy technology you know so AJ and I spun back internally AJ's our co-founder and CTO to identify how can we replace identity again but instead of using hardware and smartphones let's use the blockchain and AJ was an early a Bitcoin adopter back in 2010 mining Bitcoin really I'm passionate about the technology and I started learning a little bit more about it and trying to find a way to incorporate blockchain technology into our student identity solution as a secondary offering for Campus Tau but we quickly realized was that our front-end engineering team who is a little bit underwater in terms of the technical skills that needed to help and participate in the development for the boccie an identity solution so we ended up building up to middleware components to help them with the development and that's where we saw kind of that's where the lightbulb went off and the bigger opportunity came about where a lot of the infrastructure and tooling needed in order to build a production level blockchain application isn't quite there yet ice we ended up hitting and building a new company called espresso to make botching development more accessible so let's talk about that that the challenge that your developers face so you were at the time writing in for aetherium and in solidity right which is explain to our audience why that's so challenging what is solidity yeah and and why is it so complex yes illinit e is a JavaScript based framework for writing smart contracts on in the etherion platform it's not a fully baked or fully developed tools that yet in terms of the language there's some nuances but on top of that you also need to understand how to support things like the infrastructure so the cryptography the network protocols so if you want to sustain your own blockchain there's a lower-level skill set needed so the average JavaScript engineering could be a little bit kind of overwhelmed by what's needed to actually participate in a full-blown botching development yes and they're probably close to 10 million JavaScript engineers worldwide so it sounds like your strategy is to open up blockchain development to that massive you know resource yeah and in JavaScript being a definite core focus out of the gates and will be developing a plethora of SDKs including JavaScript and Python and Ruby etc in the thought process is you know activating these engineers that have coming new code academies or Enterprise engineers that really get a C++ or another language and allowing them to code in the languages they already know and allow them to participate the blockchain development itself okay and so how many developers are on your team so we've it's a small ad product teams three people on a parodic team now but we're actually the process is killing that up yeah so those guys actually had to go on the job training so they kind of taught themselves and then that's where you guys got the idea said okay yeah exactly and we realized that you know if we could build out this infrastructure this tooling layer that just allows you compile the language as you know into the software or the blockchain side it can make it a much more accessible and then also the other thing too that's interesting it's not just kind of writing the languages they already accustomed to but it's also the way you architect these blockchain solutions and one thing we've realized is that a lot of people think that you know every piece of data needs to live on the blockchain where that's really not something I've been teachers for you to do so because it's really expensive to put all the data on the blockchain and it's relatively slow right now with ethereum of 30 transactions per second there's companies like V chain that are looking to remedy some of those solutions with faster write data write times but the thought process is you can also create this data store and with our middleware it's not just an SDK but it's a side chain or a really performant in-memory based data store they'll allow you to store off chain data it's still in a secure fashion through consensus etc that can allow you to write data rich or today's level applications on the blockchain which is really kind of the next step I see coming in the Box chain space so I'm gonna follow up on when coaching there I mean historically distributed database which is what blockchain is it's been you know hard to scale it's like I say low transaction volumes they had to pick the right use cases smart contracts is an obvious one yeah do you feel as though blockchain eventually you mentioned V chain it sounds like they're trying to solve that problem will eventually get there to where it can can compete with the more centralized model head on and some of you know the more mainstream apps yeah and that's and that's kind of where we are because our thought process if we were to move campus topic the kind of private LinkedIn for colleges per se on to the blockchain back when we started it wouldn't be possible so how do you store this non pertinent data this transactional or not even transactional this attribute data within a boxing application and that's really where that second layer solution comes into play and you see things like lightning Network for Bitcoin etc and plasma for aetherium but creating this environment where a developer comes on they create an account they name their application they pick their software language and then they pick their blockchain there's pre-built smart contract we offer them but on top of that they already have this data store that they can leverage these are things that people already accustomed to in the web 2.0 world these are the caching layers that everyone uses things like Redis etcetera that we're bringing into the blockchain space that well I that we believe will allow this kind of large-scale consumer type application well when you think about blockchain you think okay well he thinks it's secure right but at the same time if you're writing in solidity and you're not familiar with it the code could be exposed to inherent security flaws is that so do you see that as one of the problems that you're solving sort of by default yeah I think one thing here is that I kind of as you write a smart contract you need to audit you test it so on and so forth and so we're helping kind of get that core scaffolding put up for the developer so they don't need to start from scratch they don't need to pull a vanilla smart contract off of a open source library they can leverage ones that are kind of battle tested through our through our internal infrastructure so the last part of our kind of offering is this marketplace of pre developed components that developers can leverage to rapidly prototype or build their applications whether it be consumer engineer or enterprise that one and you were developer what's your back my background yeah so I studied entrepreneurship and Information Systems so I do have I was a database analyst at fidelity it was my last job in the corporate world so I do have some experience developing nowhere near that of my co-founder AJ or some of our other but but yeah I understand the core concepts pretty well well speaking blockchain who if she was talking about obviously you you see a lot of mainstream companies obviously the banks are all looking at it you're seeing companies we just you know heard VMware making some noise the other day you're at certainly IBM makes a lot of noise about smart contracts so you're seeing some of these mainstream enterprise tech companies you know commit to it what do you see there in terms of adoption in the mainstream yeah no I think the enterprise space is gonna want to fully embrace this technology first I think the consumer level we're still a little bit ways away there just because this infrastructure and this tooling is needed before developers kind of get there but from the enterprise space what we see I mean obvious things like supply chain being a phenomenal use case the blockchain technology Walmart IBM are already implementing really cool solutions one of them my advisors Rob Dulci is the president of Asia and they've successfully implemented several blockchain projects from car parts manufacturers to track and trace through wine seeds and this from grape seeds and so there's a lot of different use cases in the supply chain side identity is really exciting Estonia is already doing some really cool work with digital identities that's gonna have a big impact voting systems etc but also thinking through some newer concepts like video streaming and decentralization of Network Maps and so there's many different use cases and for us we're not trying to necessary solve like a dis apply chain problem or anything we're trying to give a set of tools that anyone can use for their verticals so we're excited to see kind of what a spreads used for and over the next several months to here I remember you mentioned V chain before so explain what V chain is and now your what you're doing with those guys yes if V chain is another kind of next generation blockchain they're they're v chain Thor is the new platform and actually their main net launch is tomorrow and they're really excited they're introducing heightened security faster block times more transactions per second they have a really interesting governance model that I think is a good balance between pure decentralization in the centralized world which i think is that that intermediate step that a lot of these enterprises are going to need to get to end of the block chain space and we're working with them or lon on their platform so our token sale will be run through V chain which is great in addition we'll be working with them with through strategic partnerships and the goal is have espresso be the entry point for developers coming into V chain so we'll help kind of navigate the waters and kind of have them leverage the pre-built smart contracts and get more developers into the ecosystem okay let's talk about your token sale so you're doing the utility token yep and so that means you've actually got utility in the token so how is that utility token being utilized within your community yeah so the data actually the token is used to meter and mitigate abuse in the platform as well so at every single transaction it'll validate the transaction in addition it will be an abstraction layer since we do speak to multiple block chains that ezpz token will have to abstract up to aetherium to Thor which is the V chain token the future dragon chain etc so that's a really interesting use case and one of the interesting things we're trying to solve right now if you're a developer trying to come in and use it it cryptocurrency for development you need to go to something like a coin base you have to exchange fiat to aetherium you have to push that out to a third party exchange you have to do a trade and then you have to send that digital wallet address where you get easy peasy Oh to our account after that's a ton of friction and that's more friction if you're not a crypto person you're gonna be what is it you're gonna be asking to do it yeah so we're talking to some pretty big potential partners that allow kind of they would be the intermediate intermediary or money service to allow a seamless transition for engineer just to come straight onto espresso put down a credit card bank account verified go through the standard kyc AML process and then be able to get easy peasy in real time and that's something that at a macro level I think is one of the biggest barriers to entry in the botching space today so what do you call you your token easy-peasy okay so you're making that simple transparent done so you're doing a utility token you do in a raise where are you at would that raise give us the details there yeah yes so we just close our friends and family around we're not private sale right now are working closely with the VA in the VA chain foundation helping kick that off right now as well and we're yeah this is gonna be much more strategic capital in this round and then after that we'll be moving into since we are partnered with each a in their community gets a little bit of exclusivity in the next piece of the round so their master note holders will get a bigger discount in the next round and then the last round will be the public round for the general community and that's where we anticipate a lot of developers we already have development shops coming on participating in the first round which is great because the thought process is we want to get as many developers in this platform as possible throughout the summer and I think that's one of the most unique things about the token sales it's not just raising capital it's actually getting people that want to use your product to buy him now and that's that's amazing so okay so you're doing the private sale first right and you open that up to those types of folks that you just mentioned and they get some kind of discount on the on the token because they're there in early and they're backing you guys early and then you guys got a telegram channel I know it was on the recently anything is exploding it looks like a pretty hot you know offering and then then what happens next then you open it up to just a wider audience we start getting the core community members from V chain and then after that the public sale will be really targeted for the unused these are the people that you know need to put in a large substantial amount of capital again and at that point you could put in a couple hundred dollars and actually participate in in the token sale and you'd be getting in the kind of ground Florida sand and the SEC just made a ruling you know recently a week ago or so that Bitcoin and in aetherium were not security so that's a good thing nonetheless you as a CEO and entrepreneur you must have been concerned about you know a utility token and making sure everything's clean that there actually is utility you can't just use the utility token to do a raise and then go build the products you have you had it you have a working product right yeah so there's a lot of functionality already set up and we're going to continue to iterate before we even get close to the actual tokens or the public sale right so we anticipate having full functionality of what we want to get out there to the development world by the end of the sale so it's the thing that we I think one of the biggest things in this space right now in terms of the law and compliance side is a lot of self regulation since in the u.s. in particular it's such a great area you need to one stay up-to-date with every single hearing announcement but also really make sure you're you're taking best practices with kyc AML making sure the people you know good people that are investing into the comm or I've kind of participating in the allocation and and that's something we you know we've spent a lot of time with our legal team I've got pretty intimate with our lawyers and really understanding kind of the nuances of this space over time what about domicile what can you advise people you know based on your experience in terms of domicile yeah I'm not a lawyer but based on our experience I mean there's some great places over in in Europe you know Switzerland Malta Gibraltar we're down on the came in and also Singapore there's a you know these different legislature or jurisdictions are writing new law to support the effort and I think that's gonna continue to happen and I hope it happens in the u.s. too so we remove some of this nuance and gray areas that people can feel more comfortable operating and I think that's gonna happen hopefully soon in the next six months or so we'll see but as long as more guidance continues to come out I think we can operate or people can operate in the US I know a lot of people are moving offshore like we did so just something that's gonna it's a tough area right now well it gives you greater flexibility um and it like you said it's less opaque so you can have more confidence that what you're gonna do is on the up-and-up because as an entrepreneur you don't want you know I'm not gonna worry about compliance you just want to do your job and write great code and execute and build a company and so I mean I feel I don't know if you agree that the u.s. is a little bit behind you know this is kind of really slow to support entrepreneurs like yourselves like like us we'd like more transparency and clarity and you just can't seem to get a decision you're sort of in limbo and you got to move your business ahead so you make a decision you go to the Caymans you go to Switzerland you go to Malta and you move on right so and I think it's interesting too and you know a lot of what the SEC did in the beginning there's a ton of bad actors out there just as well and there's a bunch of good actors too so again if you yourself regulate you play you really understand what you need to do to be compliant you should be fine but again I think the flexibility you get right now is the more kind of defined law and some these other jurisdictions makes a lot of it yeah and I don't mean to be unfair to SEC they are doing a job and they need to protect the little guy and protect the innocent no question I would just like to see them be more proactive and provide more clarity sooner than later so okay last question the Seaport scene in Boston you know we always compare Boston and silicon silicon valley you can't compare the two Silicon Valley's a vortex in and of itself but the Boston scenes coming back there's blockchain there's IOT the Seaport is cranking you guys are in the Seaport you live down there what are you seeing would give us a what's the vibe like ya know watching me just passed about a month ago it may be less and as the great turnouts I spoke at a few events a few hundred people kind of it each one which is great and it's interesting you get a good mix of Enterprise people looking to learn and educate themselves in the space you see the venture capital side moving into the space and participating in a lot of these larger scale events and it's definitely growing rapidly in terms of the blockchain scene in Boston and I spent some time in New York and that's another great spot to and an even think places like Atlanta and I was down in Denver I did a big presentation down in Denver which was awesome and and now the coolest thing about blockchain is it really is global I spent a lot of time in Asia and in Europe and speaking over there the the pure at like the tangible energy in the room is amazing and it's one of the most exciting things about the industry many people that in the space know we're on the cutting edge here we're on the this is a new frontier that we're building along the way being part of that and helping define that is pretty exciting stuff that's cool you know I said last question I lied I forgot to ask you a little bit more about your your team maybe you could you talk a team your team your advisors maybe you could just give us a brief yeah okay there my co-founder and CTO we've been working together since I believe my sophomore year at college so it's been a while and he's their original crypto a blockchain guy and and pushed us in the spaces leading to the product development on that from in the top of that we have Craig Gainsborough our CFO I actually spent a lot of time at PwC he was the North America tax and advisory CFO over there Jalen Lou is the director of product marketing Kevin coos the head of product he worked he was nominated for a Webby and then we have our ops team Kyle who's a former campus - a complete business deaf guy over there that's working on us from some of the other side on the advisory team we have a really good team sunny luke from the CEO and founder of e chain just came on eileen quentin the president of Dragon chain foundation that was the blockchain company spun out of Disney and then David for gamma is the co-founder and had a product at autonomy that's an IOT protocol really really cool stuff happening over there new new new program coming about Rob Dulci as the president of Asia in North America which is the supply chain company and they've already successfully deployed a handful of use cases and mihaela dr. mahele Uluru who is really interesting and in this sense that she was working on decentralized systems before they were called blockchain she worked with the professor in Berkeley that defined decentralized in technology and she speaks in the World Economic Forum frequently and is really just a global presenter so we have we feel like we have a really strong team right now and we're actually getting to the point of scaling so it's gonna be exciting to start bringing in some new people and picking up the momentum it's super exciting well listen congratulations on getting to where you are and best of luck going forward best of luck with the raise and and solving the problem that you're solving it's it's an important one and thanks for coming in the cube of course thank you so much you're welcome all right thanks for watching everybody we'll see you next time this is david onte

>> Narrator: From the VMware Campus in Palo Alto California, it's The Cube covering Women Transforming Technology. (upbeat music) >> I'm Lisa Martin with the Cube and we are on the ground in Palo Alto with VMware for the third annual, Women Transforming Technology event. Excited to welcome back to the Cube, Lily Chang, VP of strategic transformation here at VMware. Lily it's great to have you back. >> Thank you, it's fantastic to have this event again, for the third time in the history. >> Yes, in fact, I read online that it was sold out within hours and the keynote this morning was... >> Lily: Fantastic >> Fantastic >> And very inspiring. >> Very inspiring. For those of you who don't know, Laila Ali was the keynote this morning. What a great analogy, not just being a sports star, but being someone, a woman, in a very male dominated industry who just had this sort of natural confidence that she just knew what her purpose was. I thought that was a very inspiring message for those of us in tech as well. >> Yeah, and it's also very key that women leaders, such as herself, is willing to come out and share the story, and be the role model and set a path and show the example for the younger generation to follow and to look up to. That is incredible. >> I love for one of the things she said, Lily, when she said she still sometimes kind of loses sight and has to reignite that inner warrior. I thought that was a really important and empowering message too that even really strong women who are naturally confident still have times where they have to kind of remind themselves of what their purpose is. I just thought that was a very impactful statement and I think regardless of any industry you're in. >> That is absolutely true. I mean, we're only human, right? So every one of us experiences challenges in life so there are times even all genders, you're going to bump into road blocks, you're going to bump into challenges and then you need to self motivating and lift yourself up and rise to the ocassions of the challenge. A lot of times these changes, and I'm sure it's true for her as well, that actually make her a better leader. >> Definitely. So you are one of the board members of Women Who Code. This is something that's very near and dear to VMwear's heart. VMwear got involved in 2016 when it was about a 10,000 person organization. >> Actually, a little bit less than that. >> A little less than 10,000? And now it's? >> We were very young. >> And now how large is it? >> It's 137,000 members globally, 20 counties, 60 cities. >> So what's the mission of Women Who Code? >> The mission is very simple. Basically we want to basically help all women that inspire and excel in their technical career journey and in their career development. So that's basically the simple mission statement and for that a very critical thrust that Women Who Code has and kind of coincide with VMware's community vision, is basically technical woman community. So they were very young but we saw the passion, we saw the commitment, and we believed that this is a great mutual opportunity because we want to be a global company. We want to not only view leadership within U.S., we wanted it to be in NIA, to be in APJ, We have R & D research offices everywhere and so we basically collaborated with Women Who Code and that has been a very successful leadership program which only work with them. And they basically blossomed under the collaboration and we're not the only company but we are the one of two founding partner in sponsor for Women Who Code. >> It's grown dramatically as you said. >> Lily: Dramatically. >> Yeah, just a couple of years since you've been involved with VMware. What are a some of things that have surprised you about, not just the growth, but about some of the lesson that maybe you've learned by watching some of these other women come into this organization and be inspired and impact their careers? >> So I see the story, both in VMware woman leadership, and also in outside community woman leadership. Right? So what I see is all these woman basically have the passion but they were a little bit worried about let it come out but when you're actually in a community you're supporting one and other and you have that platform where they feel very comfortable to communicate, network, share, and learn, and so basically that is a very powerful thing and I see the growth and the booster of the potential, it's kind of like we lift them up all of a sudden. Right? One of the stories recently is that, for example, on the external side, We have basically a Canada city director is all volunteer positions. Right. And within a year, she actually moved from a line management position to basically to a director position because the city director role basically expose you to basically get the community view out and that encourage you and challenge you to basically has hands on soft leadership skill and so a lot of the technical woman have a lot of technology and a lot of the technologist mentality but you need to accompany that with a lot of the soft skill. And then the combination of the two that makes a perfect combination. And we see a lot of that in our VMware women as well. So we set out to do basically cities in China, we actually opened China for Women Who Code. It was zero member, and now it has like 3,000-4,000 members. It's actually in China. It's a little bit of a difficult mysterious place. Right? But we made it happen in Beijing. We made it happen in Shanghai. And it's basically participate by a lot of the local company, not just multi-national company. And in India we actually open it up, and in India now is blossomed like crazy so there are like since VMware's opening up in Bangalore basically there are three other cities that joined in. India is like basically a rose in blossoming peak point right now. And we also opened up a Sophia, so basically we work with women who go to do a corporate leadership program. And within the first year, where we appointed some of the city directors from our women, basically we have experience about a 50% promotion rate and pretty much 100% retention rate. >> Lisa: Wow. >> Yeah. >> 50% promotion and 100% retention is incredible. >> It is incredible, so I see that miracle happening and then I become very convinced after year one and then I've also learned that I'm not the only leader in the world that believes in this. That's the reason why they blossom like crazy. >> I imagine growing up in China, I was reading a little bit about your story, that the expansion in China must mean something a bit personal for you as well. It sounds like you were a bit fortunate though, with your parents saying "hey," you had two choices when you graduated from college, flight attendant, or secretary and your parents thought "she should have more options that that." So maybe kind of full circle, how was that for you when those two in Shanghai and Beijing opened? >> To me, I feel like, that is what is 21st century supposed to be. I wish it were true in the 19th century and but bottom line is, minor correction, actually I did interview for those two positions. I was rejected. I was not qualified. >> Lisa: Lucky VMware. >> Yeah. (laughing) Actually lucky United State. >> There you go. >> So basically my dad and my mom, they basically raised me up very differently in that era. They basically feel that they give me kind of almost a virtual space where I do not feel there is any difference between genders. They always made me feel like I'm a equal citizen in the family. I have the same speaking right, my dad, my mom both foster me that so when they learned that I could not get those two possible jobs and I was very well educated, graduated from the best university in the island, quoting my dad, he basically "invested on me," right? So he basically said "well" what he needs to do is "continue to invest in me." So that's the reason why he exported me to United States and then basically I went to the graduate school here and then since then I been very blessed. So this is almost like the Beijing and Shanghai success of the Women Who Code. It's almost like I'm giving it back to my origin. Right? And I'm bringing a lot of the blend between the western and eastern culture together. Right? To open that up which is fantastic and basically in the global environment to make it very diverse and inclusive at the same time. >> So you had really strong parents who instilled this belief in you that you could do anything. When we look at some of the statistics that show that less than 25% of technical roles are held by women and then we also look at the retention, the attrition is so high in tech. What were some of the things that kept you kind of focused on your dreams? How did you kind of foster that persistence? And I'm wondering what your advice is for women who are in tech and might be thinking of leaving. >> Well, very interesting, so first advice I have is, basically believe in yourself and dream very big. Because that, and the second this is never afraid of change. Change is always a good thing and that has been throughout my growth in a foreign country as well as here. Right? And I remember when I was in the university, even thought it was the best university, and I actually changed department and major twice and the third time I attempted to do it, because at that time I told my dad, say "hey, I heard there's this cool computer science thing I really want to go do" he did some calculation and said "look, if you transfer again, the third time, it will take you five to six years to graduate" so he said "no, just stick with it and then later on you want to move, go ahead." Right? So in grad school I changed again and I was very blessed that there are a lot of sponsors and mentors. Not just my parents. Throughout my growth and throughout my journey in the career basically really foster and help me, supported me, give me a lot of advice, so I'm a big believer in mentorship and sponsorship and that's what I believe the technical woman community will offer. It's kind of a genetically built it within that philosophy in the community. Right? It doesn't matter which forum. It is basically bringing in the common belief and the vision together and it's basically peer to peer mentorship and because there are different walks and different levels of women and technologist in that community then you actually could do the tiering and peering and basically help people to either inspire, basically move into new career journey, or elevating themselves. So I'm a very big believer in mentorship and sponsorship. >> Speaking of change, we talked about the changes you've made previously. You've made a big change from R & D to financier. >> Lily: That's correct. >> The very first at VMware to do that? >> Lily: Yes, very first... >> Tell us about kind of the impetus and what excited you and what you are benefiting from. >> Well, I'd been in the R & D career for a couple decades and so every ten years I look at my resume and then I kind of try to have an out of body experience to basically advise myself and say, what would you do differently, so that you actually are setup for the growth for the next ten years. Right? So when I look at my career about a year ago I basically said to myself and said "well, you've got enough R & D experience, you made enough investment. For you to be in the next journey you really need to have the business experience." And even though I have basically with VMware's support and sponsorship I did go back to the business school and got kind of the Berkeley business certificate and I got lots of great executives supporting me. But the reality is if you don't do that role, day in and day out, and really experience it blended into your DNA, it's not going to come natural. Right? And I don't want to be an imposter, so essentially I made a fairly major determination that I want to basically switch into business world. So I'm kind of a unique case in the sense that I'm both over-qualified and under-qualified at the same time. I'm very lucky that I have a lot of the executive sponsorship that I was able to find a perfect role that allowed me to learn and excel and basically be inspired basically in my role today and that is something fantastic. Only after I transfer that's where I learn that I'm actually the first employee in VMware's history that moved from R & D to finance and I still remain as the only one so far and I hope that my success can actually inspire more R & D people because I truly believe that a lot of times when you can actually can look at from the other lens it would just simply make you be able to do your original job better. Like right now, I would tell my old R & D self that some of the decision I made I would have debated and petitioned and argued and thought about it in a completely different way because my thinking has shift which I think is a very healthy shift. >> I agree, and you know, one of the things that Laila Ali said this morning was basically encouraging people to get uncomfortable, to be comfortable and that's, you talked about change, absolutely there's so many opportunities and we know that on one level but it can be pretty intimidating to change something. But I love also what you said. I think there's a parallel with saying now that you have this business experience looking through that other lens at R & D, you would have made decisions differently and I think that is very reflective and an opportunity for organizations to invest in creating a more diverse executive team. When you bring in that though diversity. >> Lily: Exactly. >> And it just opens the door, not just seeing things through different lenses and perspectives whether we're talking about gender or what not, but the profitability that can come from that alone is tremendous. >> Yeah, so for example one of the things that there is a statistics actually based on McKinsey for company that basically has reasonable percentage blend of woman leadership actually grows better and makes much sounder decision and so the experience I have moving from R & D to business and then now I work still very closely with R & D community and the product business unit, basically that's kind of a testemonial for that because the decision making all of a sudden is multi facet. And you always will be able to make a better decision and a sound decision. Now, you will be able to see a different risk at a different level, and we will be communicating in a more common language, like I used to not be able to speak the business tone and the business language, now I actually can be that effective communication bridge, which I find it very powerful and very exciting and very illuminating in terms of just the whole shift, make it a very worth while actually. It's just a very fantastic personal and professional experiences so far. >> You studied that Mckinsey report and that was actually mentioned this morning that the press release that VMwear did with the Stanford Institute investing 15 million in building a womens innovation lab to study the barriers, identify how to remove those barriers, but in that press release McKinsey report found that, and this is shocking, that companies that have more diversity at the executive level, are 21% more profitable. >> Lily: Exactly. >> That's a huge number. >> That's because you actually, for business, right? The technology moves so fast and there are so many different factors will be coming in hitting the business, giving business decision, you just go down a unique lane and not basically bringing all the different facets of perspective, you tend to basically gradually work yourself into a corner or you may just believe what you want to believe. Right? So that's where the other genders perspective or even the inclusive culture will bring you, basically. So this is my firm belief. Right? It's just in a different dimension basically. >> And I think that's great advice for all walks of life Lily. Thank you so much for stopping by The Cube and sharing with us what you're doing with Women Who Code and congratulations on being the first VMware to successfully transition from R & D to finance. >> Yeah, I actually hit my one year anniversary. >> Oh congratulations and thanks so much for your time. >> Thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching the cube. I'm Lisa Martin, on the ground at Women Transforming Technology VMware. Thanks for watching. (digital music)