>>Live from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering UI path forward Americas 2019. Brought to you by UI path. Hello everyone and welcome >>do the cubes live coverage of UI path forward. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, co-hosting alongside of Dave Volante. We are joined by Layla Delage. She is the chief information and digital officer at Coca-Cola. ECEK thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank you. Great to be here. Very exciting. And also Christina Perala, she is the group RPA lead at Generali. Thank you so much for coming into, for inviting me. Thank you. So I want to hear from you both about what, what your industry is and what your role is. Level. Let's start with you. Okay, great. Um, so we are, um, one of the Rogers bottlers within the Coca-Cola system. Uh, we produce, distribute and sell Coca Cola company products. The operating around 10 countries are middle East and central Asia and parts of middle East, Pakistan, Syria and Turkey. They are actually born out of Turkey and that's where our central offices, um, we've operate with 26 plants, around 8,500 employees. >>Uh, we serve a consumer base of 400 million and we have around close to 1 billion, uh, customers. Uh, and we continue to invest in the countries where we operate. And my role is to film and my role is all things digital within this community. So leading technologists, leading technology, all things digital. Yes. So Christina, tell us about Generali. Generalia. Sikora Zuni is a leading insurance company as the presidency. Enough 50 countries worldwide and more than a 70,000 employees that were wider. So it's a bigger company, not only for insurance. And my role with the internet rally group is to leader the LPA program. So I'm inside of the group that I in digital. So am I inside this group, I'm very focused on smart process automation. So RPA plus AI, because a has a, we already know all I loudly, LPA without a AI is announcer nowadays. So we have to keep on talking about AI, machine learning algorithms to enrich, uh, uh, the capabilities of basic robotic sell, hand reach, also the Antwerp and automation of processes. You're the CIO and the CDO. Yes. Yes. That's unique. First of all, there's one that's unique too. It's even more unique than a woman has both roles. So what's the reason behind it? So, um, there's definitely a reason behind it. I joined the Coca Cola >>system about a year ago, so I'm just a over a year in the company. The reason actually I wanted to make sure that we highlight the CIO and CTO CDO role together is, um, I want to advocate for all the it organizations to transform and really get into the digital world and get into the world of advanced technologies, become strategic business partners. Get out of the kitchen, I call it kitchen kitchen, it, you know, get out of the managing of data centers or cloud and um, just the core foundational systems and applications. Get into the advanced technology, understand the business, gain business acumen and deliver solutions based on business needs. So to highlight that, I want to make sure that I hold the role of both and I'm able to be advocate of both worlds. Cause digital without it support is not able to accomplish what they need to accomplish and it needs to get into more of the digital space. And Christina, as the RPA, you write bots, you evangelize the organization. >>Um, mostly the second. So in generally we have a, a very, uh, so, uh, sort of ivory the organization. So for something we are very decentralized, for example, for the developing of robots or the deploying for the action, the operational stuff and so on. Uh, but uh, for some stuff like a guidelines, uh, uh, risk framework to ensure that robots can do their work in the right way with notice to all for the business processes, uh, for this stuff before guidelines, framework, best practice sharing. We are a central centralized, we, we try to be centralized. So, uh, my role is to try to collect is to collect and not try and super lat, uh, best practices and share with you in the companies chair, uh, um, the best use cases. And, uh, also tried to gather what are the main concerns, what are the difficulties in order to a facilitator and to boost smarter process automation of the option. So >>Laila, you are up on the main stage this morning. You, I Pat highlighted Coca Cola itchy as a, as a customer that is embraced automation, embrace the UI pass solution. So tell us a little bit about the challenges you are facing and then why you chose I a UI path. So as I joined the company, uh, I introduced a very strong digital strategy that required a lot of change and it's within a company that has been very successfully operating all these years and doing pretty much know what to do very well. And all of a sudden with digital we are starting to disrupt the, are trying to say, Hey, we've got to change the way, do some of the things. Um, so belief in digital and belief that it can really bring efficiency and outcomes was very important. And I needed a quick win. I needed to have a technology or a solution or an outcome that I would generate very quickly and show to the whole organization that this can be done and we can do this as Coca-Cola. TJ. >>So that was, that was RPA, that was our PA for this fascinates me because you're an incumbent business, been around for a long time. you're a bottler and distributor, right? So yeah, processes are around the bottling plants and the distribution system. Yes. And now you're transforming into a digital business. Yes. I'll put data at your core. Totally not start his daytime customer. Okay. So describe the difference between the traditional business and what it looks like when you've transformed, particularly from a data perspective. And then I want to understand what role RPA plays. So we are definitely a very data rich company, however, to call ourselves data rich and to call it a strategic asset, I first need to capture and control my data and I have to treat it like a strategic asset. So that is a huge transformation. The second, once you treat it as an asset, how do you generate more insights? >>And I call this augmenting the gut feeling. I have an amazing gut feeling in the company. How do I augment that with data and provide our, this is partners and then our customers and our suppliers and some of the information. And then obviously future maturity level is, you know, shared economy and data monetization, et cetera. So that's how I describe within the company. And then assets, other assets like our plants and coolers cooler, we call it cooler, you know, where do you actually see all our products? They are called, they are visible and they are available, but they are also in that set where I can turn them into a digital cooler and I can do so much more with the cooler that standing. And I recently, in one of our leadership meetings I said we have as many coolers as the um, population on the fishy Island, which is close to 1 million. >>So just imagine in this new world, in this digital era, everything that you can do by just having a cooler, 1 million coolers present out there on the street, I can serve the consumers, I can serve customers with very different information. So that's kind of what I mean by turning the business into a digital business. So that's an awesome story. By the way, how does RPA fit into that vision? RPA is everywhere in division. So I said when I started the journey, uh, any digital journey has some Muslim battles for me. There are four must win battles. I need to get certain things right in it, in the, and that was one, one of the Mustin battles was alteration. So we have to create efficiency, we have to optimize, we have to streamline. And we said automation first. Um, and we started with, I call it robotics and automation. >>And I agree with what you said, Christina. It's more than just robots. It's actually a strategic application. It could be a good old ERP. It's the RPA, it's AI, it's all the other technologies that are out there that they bring the two of them brings. So how do you create this end to end solution using all the trends, technologies to create optimization? Uh, our goal was how do we get back to our customer much faster. We had so many customer facing processes and they're going to be there forever. They are a very customer centric customer into company obviously. So how do I get back to my customer faster? How do I make my employees just happy? They were working on so many things would be until midnight over time during weekends. How do I take that away from them? So we called it lifting the weight of the shoulders and giving you a new capabilities. So again, augmentation and then giving them that space. So we had uh, three of my employees upskilled and reskilled themselves. They became a developers in the robotics space, a couple of fire functional, um, colleagues are now reskilling themselves because now they have the time to reskill. More importantly, they have the time to actually leverage their expertise and they are so much more motivated. The engagement, the employee engagement is increasing. So that's how we are positioning RPA. Pristina ICU >>nodding a lot, your head too. A lot of what Layla is saying. I'm wondering if you can talk to about any best practices that have emerged as you've implemented RPA at Generali to what you've learned. Yes, for sure. Um, we have a lot of processes automated, uh, all around the group. Uh, but we are not, we have not reached our maximum or, uh, benefits, uh, gaining. So what we need to do right now is to try to boost the smart process automation, uh, via analyzing the issue around value, Cena. So each business area of the value chain because currently we have countries that has, that have a different level of maturity. So, so some countries are at the very beginning and we have to help them with best practice sharings with a huge case, successful use cases. And we are, uh, we have a lot of help from parts into, in this because locally and who I Potter as a, a very strong presence and is very powerful in doing that. >>And, uh, now, uh, our next mouth are very focused on try to, um, uh, deep dive, the vertical, our area of the issue around value chain and identify which are the processes inside them are best to automated. Uh, uh, Basinger. Uh, these activities are not so you, I part, we'd, his experience has created a heat mapper, value chain Heath mapper. And so it's given up as some advice where to focus our strengths, our hand energy in automating. And I think that this is a very huge, uh, uh, support that you are UI parties given us. So it's not just a matter of, okay, let's start, uh, uh, do some, uh, process assessment in order to identify which processes are the best candidates to be automated. But, uh, we have, uh, how our back, uh, us. So we, we are, uh, we have the backing of UI pass saying it's better to do that and automate in depth, uh, processes of that, but Oh, the value chain. So we are starting a program to do that with all the countries or the vertical area of the country. So, and I think that this could really bring a, uh, high benefits and can, uh, uh, drive us to, uh, really having a scaling up in using a smart process, automation and UI. But you a bot ecosystem not only are, so >>one of the nice things about RPA is you can take the software robots and apply them to an existing process. A lot of times changing processes and a lot of times almost always changing processes is painful. However, we've talked to some customers that have said by applying RPA to our business, it's exposed some really bad processes. Have you experienced that and can you maybe share that experience with it? Absolutely. So for us, one of the initial, um, robots, we applied to a customer facing process. It was our field team trying to get back to our customer with a, with some information. And we realize that the, um, the cycle time was very long. And the reason is there are four functions involved in answering the question and seven different applications are being touched all the way from XL to ERP to CRM. So what we did obviously bringing a strategic solution to fix the cycle time and reduce that to streamline the process was going to take us long. So RPA was great help. We reduced the cycle time by putting a robot and we were able to get back to ours, priests, sales team in the field in matter of minutes. What used to take hours was now being responded to in minutes. Now that doesn't mean that process is perfect, but that's our next step. So we created value for our customer and our sales team within the field, um, before, you know, streamlining and going into a bigger initiatives. So then you could share Christina. >>Yes. Uh, so, um, it is necessary to automate something that could be automated. So, uh, it is necessarily to out optimize the process before automating it, but sometimes it's better to automate it as Caesar because, uh, also the not optimize the process can bring value if ultimated. So let me share an example. If you, for example, have to migrate some data obviously is a one shot, uh, uh, activity. But with the robot you can do it in a very short, well sharp timer. Maybe it's not the best, uh, process to be automated, but that could be useful as well. So it's always a matter of understanding the costs and the benefits. Uh, and sometimes, uh, FBA is very quickly, is very quick to be implemented and can be, can have a, also a lot of savings instead of integrating instead of doing more complex things. >>And then other things, uh, that it's important to take into account is that, uh, uh, after having a automating goal, all the low hanging fruits and so the processes with a low cost, uh, uh, low complexity and high benefits, uh, then it starts to facer when it's necessary to understand how to the end to end processes. Because, uh, it happens, uh, in, uh, some of our countries that, uh, the second phase is very difficult because, uh, the situation is that you have very, um, a lot of very fermented processes. And so before automating it is necessary to apply operational efficiency methodology, lean six Sigma, rare business process for engineering and then automate it. So it's a longer trip. And our Amer as group head office in general is to give these kinds of methodologies and best practices for all kinds of level of maturity in our countries. So finally, w what is the customer is the employee response then in terms of how you're talking a lot about streamlining, getting rid of these tedious tasks that took forever, how, how our employees reacting to the implementation. >>So we, um, we actually launched the, uh, announce announced RPA robotics and automation with a Hekaton in our company. And we invited 40 colleagues from various functions and two and everybody from the business was there and they participated actually in gathering ideas and prioritizing what matters most to the company. And we looked at customer, we looked at compliance, we look to the employee and we actually with during the hackathon you iPad team helped us to go live with one of the robots. They were mesmerized. They couldn't believe that this could happen. I think that's where we kind of engaged them and now going forward everyone who generate the idea was part of the building of the robots so they continue to be engaged to me allowed them to name the robots so they start naming and once the robots were alive yet literally had some of our teams who are dancing from happiness and I think that said it all. That was the strongest voice of our business partner and we published that video. So our business partners became our advocates and that's really our how we born the robotic and automation within CCI. We have so many advocates right now they are coming to us. Our business partners are coming to us with more use cases and they are actually, they are sharing with rest of the system within Coca-Cola and with the group that we are part of locally in Turkey, they are sharing their stories. So now we have a hype going on in the system. >>Yes. And in generally, um, at the beginning, uh, we face some fears in our employees fears of losing their job, but fear is not be able to use this kind of technology. Uh, but, uh, also with the help of HR because I, Charlie is, uh, driving a huge program of upskilling and reskilling of people. Uh, nowadays, uh, also hand user are very happy to use robotics, uh, because, uh, uh, when they realize that they can really help in their activities, in their very boring and not useful activities, they are very happy to enjoy this, this program. But it is so, uh, it, it was a trip, a journey with the employees to make them understand that it's not something that, uh, is affecting their job. So, at least in generally group, we are, we are programming, uh, these, uh, uh, or employees, uh, journey in order to make them, uh, uh, to have more, uh, uh, awareness about robotics and not be scared about it. Layla and Christina, thank you both so much for coming on the cube. It was wonderful. Thank you very much for you. I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Volante. Please stay tuned for more of the cubes live coverage of UI path forward.

from the VMware campus in Palo Alto California it's the Cuban covering women transforming technologies hi I'm Lisa Martin on the ground with the cube at VMware in Palo Alto at the third annual women transforming Technology event and we're here with a cube alumni Betsy Sutter SVP & chief people officer at V and we're so great to have you back on the cube thank you it's great to be here this is a very exciting day yes I love these types of events because you walk in and you just feel the sense of community and empowerment and and that's one of the great things that WT squared is in in and of itself its acronym of organizations that's right industry academia and nonprofits to help women connect learn from each other and support each other not just here in Silicon Valley but beyond and this is 30 annual this was sold out like within hours yes amazing amazing momentum that you guys have brought now to the third year great yeah we're really excited we're really excited and it's a new approach right it's creating as you said a consortium of companies to come together and just have real-time conversations about what's going on around gender equality and so yeah I'm really proud of this conference mostly because it just brings such a diverse set of people together men and women we have more men attending this year than ever before and so the conversations are just elevated they're fun yeah so you started at VMware when I was a startup with about a hundred people and here you were now managing this organization that of 20,000 people yeah big undertaking yeah talk to me about kind of the cultural change in shifts that you've seen and probably been able to drive from you know the last 15 years or so yeah you know the culture has been a pretty deliberate strategy from day one and I give the first CEO and founder Diane Greene a tremendous amount of credit for being really clear about what she wanted to build and she really wanted to build a sustainable company and a culture and she knew culture was the differentiator and even the current CEO today Pat Gallagher and I know that this is the single biggest differentiator that we can continue to strengthen in the company and then all the diversity inclusion and conversations are just part of that at this point in time but it was a deliberate regi plain and simple always keeping an eye on that and the values are at the core of that right and then the culture and the behavior reflect the values and so it's just been steadfast and stalwart on who we want to be over the past 20 years it's our 20th anniversary as a company and yeah I've been here for 17 of those but that's the work that I've really focused on it's been terrific that being deliberate is really key there yep so this third event inclusion in action is the theme yep how do you see that Bing how do you how do you live that and infiltrate that at VMware yeah well you know we are a company that has wanted to disrupt the tech space and so in order to do that we've had to stay focused on innovation innovation innovation and we really innovate in everything not just in our technology and our products but how we bring them to market how we support them but it also affects a lot of the work that I do in my space and in order to innovate you have to be inclusive of just a lot of different viewpoints and I like to say that we started out sort of in as an industrial research kind of company we were born out of Stanford a lot of computer science you know graduate students creating what we've now become and that's just been kind of the path is just collaboration even though we're 22,000 people now we still kind of take that approach to everything we do and speaking of Stanford big news out yes morning yeah gratulations thank you is investing 15 million dollars in a new women's leadership Innovation Lab that's right Danford that's amazing yeah we're thrilled we are so excited and Shelly Carell professor of sociology at Stanford we our partnership has been with Stanford since 2013 I think they've really helped us navigate everything that we've done in the inclusion and diversity space and so this is a new chapter and it's around women's leadership and it's around women's leadership and innovation and this lab I think is gonna reap some great results research based work is sort of at the heart and soul who we are right and so this is just more of that it's gonna be great to take progressive research groundbreaking research and put it into practice and so Shelley and I couldn't be more excited about what's next awesome well one of the interesting things is I was reading in the press release this morning that came out that according to McKinsey companies with diversity at the executive level 21 percent write more profitable that's right why aren't more companies even paying attention you know that that is a great question because most companies are about making money and wanting to be profitable yeah so it's it's perplexing that people aren't really honing in on what research is showing but you know suddenly it comes down to power and influence it's all about who has the power and who has the influence and so part of what we're doing with Stanford VMware Women's Leadership Innovation Lab is figuring out how to get women into more leadership positions and get them into more powerful and influential positions and that will be the thing that equalizes you know gender inequality so in the last six months we have had big movements me too yeah time's up yep growtopia there I'm Emily Chang published recently right how when you when you when that first came out with all the Harvey Weinstein stuff teachers say good we need to be able to get to leverage this moment and was that do you see that as being pulled into the tech industry and and helping to accelerate making this diversity change i I think things are getting accelerated and amplified because I think voices are being used and heard and I think there's a movement and I think women are coming together as a consortium around their gender and understanding that the real issues are around power and influence and tackling it head-on and the quality of the conversations around all of these movements is it's inspiring to me after spending 30 odd years in tech so I think things are really starting to change because women are using their voices yeah speaking of women using their voices you had Laila Ali as a keynote yeah that was so fantastic strong confident woman yeah who the daughter of Muhammad Ali who tried to talk her out of becoming a fighter right tried to - I love how she said he tried to actually kind of get me I think it was my idea to not go into it right so obviously a woman probably born with a lot of natural confidence but I loved how she kind of talked to all of us and said he sometimes that light goes out or its dimmed and I need to remind myself with you our best yeah so you probably see a good amount of females that have that sort of innate confidence that love engineering and I'm gonna do this how do you encourage those women to may be mentor some of the of the either younger or not other females who want to do something but are intimidated by you know maybe don't have that natural confidence how do you kind of facility at that empowerment yeah well I do think Leila's story is amazing and you know most importantly she's an entrepreneur and a businesswoman right I mean what she's done with her career with her foundation but what she's done with her career is most impressive and I love that digging deep and find that warrior from within yeah but I think for women today I think the difference is that we're able to have the conversation with each other and even with the opposite sex and I think companies are starting to understand that if you don't have diversity you're not going to have innovation and you're not going to win and most companies that I've worked for and VMware in particular we want to win we want to lead we want to disrupt and we want to impact the world and we want and need to make money as well but I think for women now the conversation is allowed I know that people are listening on both sides of the fence and we do a lot of VMware just to make sure that conversation is alive one of the things I'm really proud of it VMware and that I really believe is it's been the quality of the conversations since day one that have put us where we are in the world and in the industry and as a company and so the conversation shifting a little bit right we're talking more about this and it's those quality conversations that just keep it going and and that's sort of core to who we are so we'll just continue that trend and it's great being able to talk to the cube because you're allowing us to amplify the quality of the conversation so I'm grateful and we're happy to be a part of that so just just the about the event there are a number of tracks right also that was something that I was mentioned to you before we we started filming was I loved that when I walked in there was a jot yeah I love that and as well as a LinkedIn profile right resume clinic all of these you think minor things those can be really impact that's right if a woman has a great head challenge wow this is fantastic or somebody guiding her on what or what not to put on a LinkedIn profile just even providing some of these things that are foundational yep that's really huge it is really huge and it's also just a new platform for these conversations to continue whether it's just a visual because you're looking at my LinkedIn headshot or my Twitter feed or whatever it is but these are all really small things but matter really small things really matter yes and so building those up into people's psyches and their abilities is sort of what we're trying to do as part of the conference so in context of the third annual event the sold-out events and this great announcement of what VMware and Stanford are doing yeah what are some of those quick wins or exciting ones that you're looking forward to seeing the rest of 2018 yeah I think I love that question I think the key is continuing to join forces to continue to lock arms and continue the conversations and so a lot of what I love to do professionally and personally is create those platforms for people to do those kinds of things and that's what women transforming technology is about this year and has been about the last two years and I think we'll just continue to do that and people will tell us what we need to know and where we need to go awesome if you look back at your career would you have forecast your success being you know the chief people officer is c-level or would you yeah you know what was that yeah I met such that's it I'm just starting at this point in my career to really reflect on that no I never imagined having this amount of responsibility and privilege never in my wildest dreams it wasn't an aspirational goal I knew that I wanted as much influence as I could have to achieve results I'm a professional problem solver this is a pretty meaty problem that we're tackling but no I I didn't a dream it now I feel a huge amount of responsibility to start to talk about it I'm a I think I mentioned you I'm a behind-the-scenes kind of person I like to work back there understanding the problem diagnosing it coming up with a solution and then helping implement it but now it's time to kind of talk about what's happened and where we are and set course for the future with so many wonderful women last question for you yep because the attrition rate is so high for females in technology yeah what advice would you give to a woman who's on the cusp of leaving not to sort of family but just going I'm not sure I feel supported here what advice would you give her yeah I would give that person and I do give this advice on the right to go out and have lots of conversations and just start those conversations you just don't know what you don't know and I've had women come to me and at the end of 45 minutes to an hour tell me they're thinking about doing something else and it saddens me especially if they're at vmware because i don't want them to leave but go out and have those conversations and explore what's next don't be afraid of the conversation and sharing what's happening to you with you at your work and events like women transforming technology are only going to help continue to get more eyes and ears on every side of whatever gap we've got aware of this and help all of us become part of the solution that's right to accelerate diversity because as the data show companies could be far more profitable if they've got that thought diversity that's exactly right and it's just that simple but it's just that difficult exactly yeah it was that simple well Betsy thank you so much but a pleasure joining us and allowing us to be part of the voice and getting this away it's out there for women transforming technology as well as helping to hopefully empower and inspire all of the current and future generations yeah attack no I really appreciate you being here - thank you our pleasure yeah we want to thank you for watching the cube I'm Lisa Martin on the ground at women transforming Technology thanks for watching [Music]

>> Announcer: From the VMware campus in Palo Alto, California, it's the Cube, covering Women Transforming Technology. >> Hi, Lisa Martin with the Cube, on the ground at VMware in Palo Alto, at the third annual Women Transforming Technology event, we're excited to welcome to the Cube, Caroline Hubbard, an Analyst at LinkedIn, and the founder of ThreadBred, Caroline, nice to have you here. >> Thank you for having me. >> So you, as young as you are, you're a speaker at this event, you spoke in >> Caroline: I am. >> The Emerging Leaders Track, tell me the name of your session, and what >> Caroline: Yeah. >> Some of the key messages were that you delivered today. >> Definitely, my session was called, "Stand up, Stand Out, "How to Become and Advocate for Change in the Workplace," and my session detailed my experiences thus far, navigating corporate America, not only as a woman, but as a person of color, and some of the really eye opening experiences I've had, in terms of the toxic cultures that are rampant in our organizations across America, and through this experience, I learned really valuable lessons. And two of those lessons are that performance and how you're perceived can only take you so far in an organization; ultimately, if you're not in a place that values your identity, or values you for your differences, not just in spite of your differences, then your chances of success are going to be limited, and if you allow toxic cultures to eat away at your own perception of self, then you're going to be in even more dangerous positions. So I sort of talked about how I learned those lessons, and provided a framework for which we can all go back to our companies and bring awareness to issues that are affecting underrepresented people. >> How did you hear about Women Transforming Technology? >> Yeah, so since I've moved here, 10 months ago, I've just been taking the city by storm, networking, joining lots of women's groups, to just try to find women with similar experiences as me; I'm from the east coast, so I don't really have that many friends or a network out here, and that's what I wanted to build, so through one of the women's groups I'm associated with, I was speaking with a friend, who was like, "Well, you should check out this conference," so I did that; I went online, and I connected with one of the program leads here, and we were able to talk a little bit about my experience, and I was invited to speak. >> Fantastic. >> Yeah. >> And now you can say you've spoken at an event where Laila Ali spoke this morning >> Caroline: I know >> That's an honor (laughing) >> She was so inspiring, because you know, you look at a woman like Laila, who's >> Right. >> Who you think is just born with confidence, and courage, and she talked about how a lot of that is true, very innate, but there was times where she kind of has to recheck >> Caroline: Yeah. >> Kind of do a gut check, and say, "Alright, I feel like "I'm kind of nocked back a bit," >> Caroline: Mm-hmm. >> I loved her recommendations for you know, like the Boy Scouts, what, always be prepared, >> Caroline: Yeah. >> But the preparation is really key; have you found that to be something that helps you kind of harness your inner mojo, your inner confidence? >> Absolutely. >> Whether you're speaking at Watermark, or you're here. >> Yeah, absolutely, and I come from a performing arts background, and I spent a lot of time on stage, and I just found that throughout my life, being on stage energizes me, and being able to connect with people and be fully transparent is something that's really refreshing, but with that, comes a lot of preparation, and I've spent hours, actually, last month when I did a similar talk, my mother and I were up until five A.M. the night before a big speech, just working and making sure it was perfect, and deliver the right message. So I definitely agree, preparation is always key; it helps you feel confident, but like she said, there are times when preparation isn't enough, and you just feel a little bit unprepared or un-confident, and that's okay >> Yeah. >> What really matters is how you bounce back from those instances in which you don't feel as confident. >> I agree, I felt very validated with Laila Ali >> Caroline: Yes. >> Saying sometimes I don't always feel my best, so tell me a little bit, before we get into ThreadBred, I want to talk to you about a little bit about this program that you're in at LinkedIn, where you get to in finance, you get to work in different parts of the business >> Caroline: Right. >> Yeah, it's a really unique program, it's a two year long program, for people directly out of college, that gives you a lot of exposure across the company, so it's technically under the business operations organization, so your first year is split between rotations in sales operations and business operations, and then the second year, you can have more of an elective choice, where you can sort of dabble in product marketing or corporate developments, so it's a really unique experience in that it allows you to see multiple parts of the business, and currently, I'm on the consumer product growth team, which is responsible for getting people to use our app, and I also focus a little bit on our SEO strategy, so it's really opened me up to the world of tech, and how large scale enterprise companies work, which has been exhilarating. >> What have been your experiences, in terms of the diversity not just at LinkedIn >> Caroline: Right, right. >> But as you say, you've been in the valley now, for about 10 months. >> Yeah. >> What are some of the observations that you have made? >> Yeah, I think that a lot of the workforces, actual workforces are reflective of the actual diversity that's in the city, and if you look at the city, first of all, it's not very diverse, so it's kind of impossible for the organizations to have that same diversity, so it's been a challenge; I think that LinkedIn has done an incredible job, given the fact that there are not equal amounts of multiple different demographics, and I think LinkedIn is very conscious of the problem, and we're actively working to solve it, so I feel good about that, but I have noticed that in terms of gender, in terms of race, not everyone is represented on equal levels, and representation is so important, because for other people who are coming in future generations, you can't be what you can't see, so if there aren't people that look like you, you're going to be discouraged from pursuing an opportunity there, when that opportunity might be perfect for you. So I'm really empowered and passionate about trying to increase representation for all people in these organizations. >> It's refreshing to be at a conference like WT squared, because the accountability is so key, and what they announced this morning, with VMware investing $15 million into an innovation lab for women's leadership; the fact that they're together, expanding this stand in VMware >> Caroline: Mm-hmm. >> Relationship it's been over the last five years, but actively going to be looking at what are these barriers; the diversity barriers that women are facing, how do they identify optimal ways to eradicate those barriers? >> Mm-hmm. >> Because VMware knows, and the McKinsey report that was actually cited in the press release >> Caroline: Yeah. >> That they came out with this morning, companies that have more diversity at the executive level, are 21% more profitable. >> Caroline: Yeah. >> So they're understanding this is going to not just be benefiting our culture and diversity or our chief people officer HR function >> Absolutely. >> This is actually something that will benefit the entire company. >> Yeah. >> And what does this company deliver? Technology that other businesses and people use, to better our lives, so they get that, and that's saying refreshing is >> Yeah. >> Kind of an understatement. >> That is, yeah. >> But it really is nice to see companies that are willing to go, "Hey, we want to know exactly what these problems "are, so that we can then be strategic "in how we can solve them." >> Exactly, it is refreshing, and I think that more and more companies are realizing that diversity is not a luxury or just sort of a platitude, it's something that is intrinsic to the business, and to the health of the business, and the retention of employees, and as more and more people begin to realize that, I think that we will get better at increasing representation down the line. >> You know, I talked with a lot of women today and wanted to get their thoughts on the MeToo movement, Time's Up; in the last six months, that erupted on the scenes >> Caroline: Yeah. >> Unlikely alliance with Hollywood, and the resounding opinions have been, actually, that's momentum that we can take advantage of; we should be leveraging this, because when you have a platform that's that big, and that global, >> Mm-hmm. >> For an issue that affects every industry, including us in technology >> Mm-hmm. >> That they actually saw that as kind of an elevation of the platform >> Caroline: Yeah. >> I'm curious what your thoughts are about that. >> Yeah, I actually spoke about MeToo, and a couple of other social movements in my talk earlier, and one of the reasons I started my blog, ThreadBred, is because I started to realize this really unique cultural moment, in which I've emerged into the workplace, which has been characterized by these social movements, and a lot of these social movements have been galvanized through social media; social media's been able to bring so much attention to important issues, and shift public perceptions, so with MeToo, a movement that was founded by an African-American woman in 2006, and then it sort of gained more momentum in 2017 when Alyssa Milano tweeted it out, and then to have, a month later, Jackie Speier, congresswoman of California, introduce the MeToo Congress Act, you know, changes happening at such a rapid pace. More so than it ever has in the past, so I'm really excited to be a part of that, and I'm really excited that we are seeing this much progress on this rate. >> We need to keep that going. >> We need to keep it going, absolutely. >> Tell me a little bit more about ThreadBred. >> Yeah, so ThreadBred started in 2014, just as a fun, personal blog; my friends and I were getting our first internships, the summer after our Freshman year of college, and we were all in different industries, and couldn't really, or didn't know where to go in terms of where to get advice about what to wear, and of course, we wanted to make a good impression, so I just started creating outfits, dressing my friends up, telling them, this is what you should wear when you go here or there, and it sort of turned into this personal branding, as a young professional blog, and I started writing more about what are some of the experiences that young people have, directly out of college? What are some of the things they wish they knew before they started their jobs? And then I restarted it when I entered the work world now, and because of what's happening in society, I wanted to shift the attention to focus on these important social issues, such as women's empowerment, the representation of underrepresented minorities, and I've been able to have a lot of great dialogs with people that I know, and people that I have just met, who might have opinions that are different from me, and I think those are the most interesting ones, because they're the learning opportunities, and it sort of transformed into this story space, where we can consolidate information and learn from each other. >> I love that; one of the things that I thought was really cool, when I walked into the event today, was there's a headshot area >> Caroline: Yeah. >> And there's a resume writing clinic and a LinkedIn profile clinic, as well, and you kind of think, those are really foundational pieces to help someone have a professional looking photo, that doesn't have like somebody's arm that you need cropped out. >> Caroline: Absolutely, yeah. >> Or you know, a strong LinkedIn profile, especially if you're young, maybe just finishing with school and don't have a ton of experience; those are really important foundational elements, and it sounds like what you've done with ThreadBred, >> Caroline: Yeah. >> To advise young people on how should you look professional; that's a really cool thing that you've done, there. >> Caroline: Thank you. >> It's an area where you might think it's a small thing, but I think that can be very impactful. >> Yeah, it's kind of like the things that nobody tells you once you go in, it's just we're trying to capture all of that knowledge in one place, and share it with as many people as possible. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So if you look down, finishing in the next what, year or so, >> Caroline: Yeah >> Your two year program at LinkedIn. >> Caroline: Yeah. >> What direction do you think you'd want to go in? >> Well, I love LinkedIn, and when I interviewed, I actually said that I was like the physical manifestation of LinkedIn; I am a networking person, I love connecting people with opportunity, and I love LinkedIn's message of trying to create economic opportunity for the global workforce, and I think that it's really rare that you find a company that's for profit, that also has this really social impact admission, and I want to stay in this space as long as possible, but years down the line, I could envision myself being an entrepreneur, and starting my own company to focus specifically on problems affecting people of color and underrepresented people around the world. I think that that's what I've identified I'm passionate about, and that's what I want to pursue. >> I can feel that from you, so I think definitely entrepreneurial. >> Caroline: Thank you. >> Kind of in summary, what are some of the things that you're going to be taking away from this third annual Women Transforming Technology event? >> Yeah, absolutely, well, from the keynote earlier this morning, it's about listening to the inner voice inside of you, always finding that inner warrior as Leila Ali mentioned, because I think that's so important; I think life is about just having good days, and then having days where you're encountering adversity, and it doesn't matter how much adversity happens to you, it matters how you respond to that, so always leaning into that inner voice and then using your voice to empower other women around you, who might have similar experiences, but who don't necessarily know how to navigate the same situations is where you can be most helpful, so supporting women and always finding your inner strength is what I'm going to take away from today. >> I love that; I'm going to borrow that from you, that was fantastic >> Caroline: Okay. >> Well, Caroline, you're going to be a big star, I can already tell >> Caroline: Oh, thank you. >> It's really nice to hear someone that's so young, that sees the opportunities here, and wants to very naturally, make a difference in it; you're one to watch, >> Caroline: Thank you. >> For sure. >> Thank you. >> Lisa: Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. >> We want to thank you; I'm Lisa Martin with the Cube, we are on the ground at VMware, at the third annual Women Transforming Technology event, thanks for watching. (upbeat techno)

>> Narrator: From the VMware Campus in Palo Alto California, it's The Cube covering Women Transforming Technology. (upbeat music) >> I'm Lisa Martin with the Cube and we are on the ground in Palo Alto with VMware for the third annual, Women Transforming Technology event. Excited to welcome back to the Cube, Lily Chang, VP of strategic transformation here at VMware. Lily it's great to have you back. >> Thank you, it's fantastic to have this event again, for the third time in the history. >> Yes, in fact, I read online that it was sold out within hours and the keynote this morning was... >> Lily: Fantastic >> Fantastic >> And very inspiring. >> Very inspiring. For those of you who don't know, Laila Ali was the keynote this morning. What a great analogy, not just being a sports star, but being someone, a woman, in a very male dominated industry who just had this sort of natural confidence that she just knew what her purpose was. I thought that was a very inspiring message for those of us in tech as well. >> Yeah, and it's also very key that women leaders, such as herself, is willing to come out and share the story, and be the role model and set a path and show the example for the younger generation to follow and to look up to. That is incredible. >> I love for one of the things she said, Lily, when she said she still sometimes kind of loses sight and has to reignite that inner warrior. I thought that was a really important and empowering message too that even really strong women who are naturally confident still have times where they have to kind of remind themselves of what their purpose is. I just thought that was a very impactful statement and I think regardless of any industry you're in. >> That is absolutely true. I mean, we're only human, right? So every one of us experiences challenges in life so there are times even all genders, you're going to bump into road blocks, you're going to bump into challenges and then you need to self motivating and lift yourself up and rise to the ocassions of the challenge. A lot of times these changes, and I'm sure it's true for her as well, that actually make her a better leader. >> Definitely. So you are one of the board members of Women Who Code. This is something that's very near and dear to VMwear's heart. VMwear got involved in 2016 when it was about a 10,000 person organization. >> Actually, a little bit less than that. >> A little less than 10,000? And now it's? >> We were very young. >> And now how large is it? >> It's 137,000 members globally, 20 counties, 60 cities. >> So what's the mission of Women Who Code? >> The mission is very simple. Basically we want to basically help all women that inspire and excel in their technical career journey and in their career development. So that's basically the simple mission statement and for that a very critical thrust that Women Who Code has and kind of coincide with VMware's community vision, is basically technical woman community. So they were very young but we saw the passion, we saw the commitment, and we believed that this is a great mutual opportunity because we want to be a global company. We want to not only view leadership within U.S., we wanted it to be in NIA, to be in APJ, We have R & D research offices everywhere and so we basically collaborated with Women Who Code and that has been a very successful leadership program which only work with them. And they basically blossomed under the collaboration and we're not the only company but we are the one of two founding partner in sponsor for Women Who Code. >> It's grown dramatically as you said. >> Lily: Dramatically. >> Yeah, just a couple of years since you've been involved with VMware. What are a some of things that have surprised you about, not just the growth, but about some of the lesson that maybe you've learned by watching some of these other women come into this organization and be inspired and impact their careers? >> So I see the story, both in VMware woman leadership, and also in outside community woman leadership. Right? So what I see is all these woman basically have the passion but they were a little bit worried about let it come out but when you're actually in a community you're supporting one and other and you have that platform where they feel very comfortable to communicate, network, share, and learn, and so basically that is a very powerful thing and I see the growth and the booster of the potential, it's kind of like we lift them up all of a sudden. Right? One of the stories recently is that, for example, on the external side, We have basically a Canada city director is all volunteer positions. Right. And within a year, she actually moved from a line management position to basically to a director position because the city director role basically expose you to basically get the community view out and that encourage you and challenge you to basically has hands on soft leadership skill and so a lot of the technical woman have a lot of technology and a lot of the technologist mentality but you need to accompany that with a lot of the soft skill. And then the combination of the two that makes a perfect combination. And we see a lot of that in our VMware women as well. So we set out to do basically cities in China, we actually opened China for Women Who Code. It was zero member, and now it has like 3,000-4,000 members. It's actually in China. It's a little bit of a difficult mysterious place. Right? But we made it happen in Beijing. We made it happen in Shanghai. And it's basically participate by a lot of the local company, not just multi-national company. And in India we actually open it up, and in India now is blossomed like crazy so there are like since VMware's opening up in Bangalore basically there are three other cities that joined in. India is like basically a rose in blossoming peak point right now. And we also opened up a Sophia, so basically we work with women who go to do a corporate leadership program. And within the first year, where we appointed some of the city directors from our women, basically we have experience about a 50% promotion rate and pretty much 100% retention rate. >> Lisa: Wow. >> Yeah. >> 50% promotion and 100% retention is incredible. >> It is incredible, so I see that miracle happening and then I become very convinced after year one and then I've also learned that I'm not the only leader in the world that believes in this. That's the reason why they blossom like crazy. >> I imagine growing up in China, I was reading a little bit about your story, that the expansion in China must mean something a bit personal for you as well. It sounds like you were a bit fortunate though, with your parents saying "hey," you had two choices when you graduated from college, flight attendant, or secretary and your parents thought "she should have more options that that." So maybe kind of full circle, how was that for you when those two in Shanghai and Beijing opened? >> To me, I feel like, that is what is 21st century supposed to be. I wish it were true in the 19th century and but bottom line is, minor correction, actually I did interview for those two positions. I was rejected. I was not qualified. >> Lisa: Lucky VMware. >> Yeah. (laughing) Actually lucky United State. >> There you go. >> So basically my dad and my mom, they basically raised me up very differently in that era. They basically feel that they give me kind of almost a virtual space where I do not feel there is any difference between genders. They always made me feel like I'm a equal citizen in the family. I have the same speaking right, my dad, my mom both foster me that so when they learned that I could not get those two possible jobs and I was very well educated, graduated from the best university in the island, quoting my dad, he basically "invested on me," right? So he basically said "well" what he needs to do is "continue to invest in me." So that's the reason why he exported me to United States and then basically I went to the graduate school here and then since then I been very blessed. So this is almost like the Beijing and Shanghai success of the Women Who Code. It's almost like I'm giving it back to my origin. Right? And I'm bringing a lot of the blend between the western and eastern culture together. Right? To open that up which is fantastic and basically in the global environment to make it very diverse and inclusive at the same time. >> So you had really strong parents who instilled this belief in you that you could do anything. When we look at some of the statistics that show that less than 25% of technical roles are held by women and then we also look at the retention, the attrition is so high in tech. What were some of the things that kept you kind of focused on your dreams? How did you kind of foster that persistence? And I'm wondering what your advice is for women who are in tech and might be thinking of leaving. >> Well, very interesting, so first advice I have is, basically believe in yourself and dream very big. Because that, and the second this is never afraid of change. Change is always a good thing and that has been throughout my growth in a foreign country as well as here. Right? And I remember when I was in the university, even thought it was the best university, and I actually changed department and major twice and the third time I attempted to do it, because at that time I told my dad, say "hey, I heard there's this cool computer science thing I really want to go do" he did some calculation and said "look, if you transfer again, the third time, it will take you five to six years to graduate" so he said "no, just stick with it and then later on you want to move, go ahead." Right? So in grad school I changed again and I was very blessed that there are a lot of sponsors and mentors. Not just my parents. Throughout my growth and throughout my journey in the career basically really foster and help me, supported me, give me a lot of advice, so I'm a big believer in mentorship and sponsorship and that's what I believe the technical woman community will offer. It's kind of a genetically built it within that philosophy in the community. Right? It doesn't matter which forum. It is basically bringing in the common belief and the vision together and it's basically peer to peer mentorship and because there are different walks and different levels of women and technologist in that community then you actually could do the tiering and peering and basically help people to either inspire, basically move into new career journey, or elevating themselves. So I'm a very big believer in mentorship and sponsorship. >> Speaking of change, we talked about the changes you've made previously. You've made a big change from R & D to financier. >> Lily: That's correct. >> The very first at VMware to do that? >> Lily: Yes, very first... >> Tell us about kind of the impetus and what excited you and what you are benefiting from. >> Well, I'd been in the R & D career for a couple decades and so every ten years I look at my resume and then I kind of try to have an out of body experience to basically advise myself and say, what would you do differently, so that you actually are setup for the growth for the next ten years. Right? So when I look at my career about a year ago I basically said to myself and said "well, you've got enough R & D experience, you made enough investment. For you to be in the next journey you really need to have the business experience." And even though I have basically with VMware's support and sponsorship I did go back to the business school and got kind of the Berkeley business certificate and I got lots of great executives supporting me. But the reality is if you don't do that role, day in and day out, and really experience it blended into your DNA, it's not going to come natural. Right? And I don't want to be an imposter, so essentially I made a fairly major determination that I want to basically switch into business world. So I'm kind of a unique case in the sense that I'm both over-qualified and under-qualified at the same time. I'm very lucky that I have a lot of the executive sponsorship that I was able to find a perfect role that allowed me to learn and excel and basically be inspired basically in my role today and that is something fantastic. Only after I transfer that's where I learn that I'm actually the first employee in VMware's history that moved from R & D to finance and I still remain as the only one so far and I hope that my success can actually inspire more R & D people because I truly believe that a lot of times when you can actually can look at from the other lens it would just simply make you be able to do your original job better. Like right now, I would tell my old R & D self that some of the decision I made I would have debated and petitioned and argued and thought about it in a completely different way because my thinking has shift which I think is a very healthy shift. >> I agree, and you know, one of the things that Laila Ali said this morning was basically encouraging people to get uncomfortable, to be comfortable and that's, you talked about change, absolutely there's so many opportunities and we know that on one level but it can be pretty intimidating to change something. But I love also what you said. I think there's a parallel with saying now that you have this business experience looking through that other lens at R & D, you would have made decisions differently and I think that is very reflective and an opportunity for organizations to invest in creating a more diverse executive team. When you bring in that though diversity. >> Lily: Exactly. >> And it just opens the door, not just seeing things through different lenses and perspectives whether we're talking about gender or what not, but the profitability that can come from that alone is tremendous. >> Yeah, so for example one of the things that there is a statistics actually based on McKinsey for company that basically has reasonable percentage blend of woman leadership actually grows better and makes much sounder decision and so the experience I have moving from R & D to business and then now I work still very closely with R & D community and the product business unit, basically that's kind of a testemonial for that because the decision making all of a sudden is multi facet. And you always will be able to make a better decision and a sound decision. Now, you will be able to see a different risk at a different level, and we will be communicating in a more common language, like I used to not be able to speak the business tone and the business language, now I actually can be that effective communication bridge, which I find it very powerful and very exciting and very illuminating in terms of just the whole shift, make it a very worth while actually. It's just a very fantastic personal and professional experiences so far. >> You studied that Mckinsey report and that was actually mentioned this morning that the press release that VMwear did with the Stanford Institute investing 15 million in building a womens innovation lab to study the barriers, identify how to remove those barriers, but in that press release McKinsey report found that, and this is shocking, that companies that have more diversity at the executive level, are 21% more profitable. >> Lily: Exactly. >> That's a huge number. >> That's because you actually, for business, right? The technology moves so fast and there are so many different factors will be coming in hitting the business, giving business decision, you just go down a unique lane and not basically bringing all the different facets of perspective, you tend to basically gradually work yourself into a corner or you may just believe what you want to believe. Right? So that's where the other genders perspective or even the inclusive culture will bring you, basically. So this is my firm belief. Right? It's just in a different dimension basically. >> And I think that's great advice for all walks of life Lily. Thank you so much for stopping by The Cube and sharing with us what you're doing with Women Who Code and congratulations on being the first VMware to successfully transition from R & D to finance. >> Yeah, I actually hit my one year anniversary. >> Oh congratulations and thanks so much for your time. >> Thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching the cube. I'm Lisa Martin, on the ground at Women Transforming Technology VMware. Thanks for watching. (digital music)

>> Announcer: From the VMware Campus in Palo Alto, California It's the CUBE. Covering Women Transforming Technology >> I'm Lisa Martin with the CUBE and we are on the ground in Palo Alto at VMware headquarters with the third annual Women Transforming Technology event. Excited to be speaking with Kathy Chou, the VP of R&D Operations and Central Services from VMware. Kathy, nice to meet you. >> Nice to meet you, as well. >> So, third annual Women Transforming Technology event. Sold out within hours. It was standing room only in the keynote this morning. We got to hear from Laila Ali. So inspiring. What a strong female, who used the word purpose a lot during her talk this morning. You're a mom of four boys. You've been a female in tech for a long time, now. What is it that has kept you in tech and pursuing a career in technology as a leader? >> Well, I have been in tech for over 25 years. And it has been an absolute amazing journey. From early career to mid career to now, I'm going to say mid-to-late career, it's just a passion that's I've had. When I was a young girl, I was just good at math and science. And I pursued that passion and ended up with a mechanical engineering degree. And there are many steps along the way where I was getting discouraged. "Why do you want to do this tech thing? "You should maybe drop out, do something else." But I'm so glad I stuck with it. And really, as you mentioned, the four boys. I want to be an example for my sons because I want them to understand there can be women with all sorts of talents. And if they happen to find someone who is technical and wants to do something in this world or do something in hi-tech or management or whatever that is, that they support them in every way, shape, or form. >> How have you gotten the coveted or sought-after work-life balance? What are some of you tips and tricks we can learn from? >> Well, first of all, I call it work-life integration. Because it's really not a balance. You've got to integrate it. And one of the things I've also ... First thing, I've chosen companies that really believe in that. VMware is a company that really believes in this bringing your authentic self to work and making sure that you can integrate your work with your life. And you need to have that balance. In fact, I do a career journey. And when I talk about my career journey, there's above line, below line. And above the line is the work stuff, and below the line is the life stuff. And you need to make sure that they're equally full. Because I believe that if you have a very, very full and busy life outside of work, it'll actually make you a better employee. So I encourage my folks, as a leader now, I'm finally a leader and I manage a team, that if folks have to go and do something in the middle of the day, doctor's appointment, do something with the kid, go do it. Because as long as you get your job done, you can integrate both work and life. >> Lisa: I love that. I think you're absolutely right, that it isn't about ... It's integration. They have to work together. So, from your career in mechanical engineering, what were some of the things that ... Were you just sort of born with an innate, "I'm really interested in this," in terms of keeping your head down and focused and getting into a fairly male-dominated industry and field? Was it just sort of that innate, that you were born with, "Hey I like this. "Yeah, I'm in a male-dominated field, but I don't care?" >> Yeah, it kind of was. Because, you know, my love ... So I had two focus areas in mechanical engineering. One was material science. I just loved material science. And so I ended up working for my first job out of Stanford was Instron Corporation which was a materials testing firm. My other love was robotics. So, I had actually worked for GM on the production line and helped program some of those early robots. And so, I was able to combine those two passions when I ended up going to Instron and developed their robotics line. Now, here's the thing. As I'm going through all of this, am I looking around and realizing, "My goodness, there are no other females here?" That was the case. But my passion for learning new things, and doing something, and making a difference seemed to outstrip the fact that there weren't females. And now that, as I'm getting, again, more advanced in my career, I'm realizing that I have a duty to play as a role-model to say "Hey, you can do it. "You can have a family. "You can have a great job. "You can have a great life outside of work. "You know, as long as you integrate all of those things." So I think with that perseverance, that's how you can get through. >> And I think that there is such a need for those role models because like we were talking about Laila Ali this morning who clearing was born with this natural confidence, which not a lot of women are, >> Kathy: Yes. >> Not a lot of people are, in general. So, I think it's really important that you've recognized you're in this position to be a mentor. >> Kathy: Mm hmm. >> What are some of the ... How do you advise, either women that are in their early stage careers or even those maybe in the middle of their careers that are pondering, "Hey, I don't see any "or a lot of strong female leaders "in the executive suite. "Should I stay here?" You had that internally, but what is your advise to women who might be at that crossroads. >> Yeah. I think the first and most important thing is that it takes courage to stay the course. I know that sounds a little odd, but don't care about what you see around yourself, right? Just know about what do you love? What is your passion? And, you know, I always say that there is something I call the sweet spot. It's where your passion meets your talent. And if you're in a place like that, you're in a very special place. Because that means it's a strength of yours that you also love. And if you do that, it doesn't matter who else is around you. You know, one thing Laila said that I really loved and I really, really believe in myself is preparation. You have to be prepared so as long as you are prepared that's what gives you the confidence. We don't ... Okay, maybe she was born confident. She came out of the womb confident. I certainly wasn't. I was someone who grew up with ... I really lacked a lot self confidence. I was painfully shy. I had trouble speaking in front of people. I worked very, very hard. I was prepared to get over that fear. You know, I put myself ... She mentioned this thing about being uncomfortable. And I think I put myself in a lot of uncomfortable situations as well. I was really resonating with what she said. Speaking in front of large audiences. In fact, I used to memorize a lot of my speeches and then I remember I would forget it in the middle of it and- (gasp) I would be horrified. But you know what? You do a few of those things, you get better and better at it and if you just get out of that comfort zone and you have those little butterflies. I always say if you have those little butterflies, you're stretching your learning and that's what helps you achieve. >> I couldn't agree more. I think that, you know, I think that I always say, "Get comfortably uncomfortable." >> Kathy: Yeah. >> No matter what you're doing. If it's above the line or below the line as you were saying before. But you're right, she talked about preparation, being prepared and we talk a lot about imposter syndrome. >> Kathy: Mm hmm. >> Often times at Women and Technology events, just because it comes up, it's something I didn't even know what it was until a few years ago. And I think just simply finding out that this is a legitimate issue that many people face of any industry, gender, you name it. That alone, knowing that that was legitimate, was, "Okay, I'm not alone here." But if you can go, "Let me prepare and get prepared for what I need to do." That preparation part is, I think, a huge key that, if more people understand that just work and be prepared, you're not alone in feeling that. Sort of maybe setting the level setting there. I think that can go a long way to helping those women in any stage of their career just get that little bit more courage that you said. >> Yes. >> That you need to get out of that comfort zone. And I agree I think goals that make you a little nervous, are good goals to have. >> Totally agree. I have some tips on how to get out of that comfort zone, Or get out of your comfort zone. So, I find, okay, there's always the smartest-person-in-the-room thing you hear about, and, forget about that, okay? Ask questions. You always here this: There's no such thing as a dumb question. And there really is no such thing. I know how many times someone has asked a question say, "I asked that question." >> Lisa: Absolutely. >> And actually it's a brilliant way to be heard. Because a lot of times, a lot of women ... Actually, it doesn't matter. A woman, unrepresented minority, it could be a white male who's shy, right? In an inclusive environment, if you don't speak up, you're not heard. And a lot of the brilliant things that people have, are those questions that people have. Because if they don't understand something, I'm sure there's someone else who doesn't either. And so if you just ask some questions, you'll find that you'll get that courage to ask a few more. And then eventually you get to the point where you actually can advocate. >> I agree. You have to be willing to try and I love that. So, the theme of this event, Inclusion in Action. >> Kathy: Yes. >> I'd love to get your perspective on how do you see inclusion in action here at VMware in engineering, for example in R&D. >> Yes. First of all, I'm on the Diversity and Inclusion Council. So I represent R&D. Yes, I just had a meeting with Betsy Sutter. We had our Diversity and Inclusion Council for VMware so I was representing R&D. So it's something that is very, very important to us. One thing I will say that I've learned at this conference is it's not about the stats. It's not about the fact that you have meetings or goals. It's something you must internalize. It's something, as a leader, I think it's my job and duty to exude it, you know, through example, through being inclusive, to making sure, like I was at an event the other day here at VMware I was talking about I was at the Watermark Conference, and I was basically doing a replay of what I did at the Watermark Conference. And in there, I saw three men. And I said to myself, "You know what? "We need more men at this event." And so, even at this conference today, I want to see more men. It's all about inclusion, right? And I think people sometimes forget that, even though it says Women Transforming Technology, men, women, whatever your sexual orientation, whatever that is, we all care about how women can transform technology. You don't have to be a woman to do that. >> Right. Well one of the things that came out today was the great news about this massive investment that VMware is doing. 15 million to create this lab at Stanford. >> Kathy: Yeah. >> This innovation lab. And we were talking with Betsy earlier. And actually, in the press release, it cited that McKinsey report that states that, companies that have a more diverse executive team, >> Yes. no stats or anything, more diverse, are 21 percent more profitable. And it just seems like a no brainer. Every company wants to be profitable, right? Except for an NPO. So, if all you need to do is to increase that thought diversity alone and you're more profitable, why is this so difficult for so many other organizations to culturally adopt that mindset? >> Yeah. What I find fascinating is that diversity and inclusion is obviously a very hot topic in Silicon Valley, right? Every company is either fearing having their numbers publicly outputted or their working on these things. And yet we're doing a lot of things, but the needle isn't moving, right? So, I think it was mentioned today, by a professor from Stanford. She was saying there's not a silver bullet. Some of these things will take a long time. One of the things that we had talked about was this pipeline of, it doesn't matter again, young women, under-represented minorities, whatever you say in the STEM fields. We need to encourage more of that, okay? And so, what's interesting is there's more, well certainly more females than males that are graduating these days, yet, when you start off in a hi-tech company, you will see quite a bit of balance between male and female, I'll just use that as an example. It's even worse as far as under-represented minorities. But as you move up the chain, what happens is the numbers just fall off. And, one of the root causes that I see as an issue, is that when these women look up at the top and say, "I don't see women." Or if I am a person of color, "I don't see a person of color in this leadership position. "Why should I continue?" And then you see just a lot of attrition happening at those levels. And so, what it takes is every single one of us internalizing how important this is. And I think when that happens, when it's not a, "Oh, it's a project." Or, "Oh, it's an initiative." Or, "Oh, it's a goal." And this, by the way, may take a decade or more. But once we all internalize this, I think that's when the needle's going to move. >> Yeah, we talked a lot earlier about accelerating this. Because you're right, the attrition rates are incredibly high, much higher for women leaving technology than leaving other industries. And a lot of women are looking for those role models, like somebody like you for example. But, I think the more awareness, the more consistent awareness we can get ... And also the fact that, you know, in the last six months we've had the Me Too Movement explode onto the scene, getting this unlikely alliance with Hollywood, Time's Up, Brotopia coming out a couple of months ago, and was something that I actually put off reading because I thought, "I don't think I want to know", and I thought, "Actually, yes I do." Because there's no reason that these things should continue. >> Right. >> But, to your point, it's not just about getting more women involved. It's really about integrating and including everybody. >> Kathy: Absolutely. >> To move the needle, but much faster. Half of 2018 is almost over. There were no big females onstage for CES five months ago. And there's really no reason for that. So the more we can all come together and just identify role models and examples and share the different things that we've been through, the more I think we can impact this acceleration of this movement. >> Totally agree. I actually have a thought that you just triggered around perhaps accelerating this in the best way we can. Knowing, again, there's no silver bullet. But I was at my business school reunion and I was shocked to see that 80 percent of my business school graduates were not working. And what happened is many of these women had taken jobs in consulting firms, investment banking firms, that weren't that friendly. And when they started to have children, they stopped out. And they didn't want to compromise their family. Who does? Nobody wants to do that. But when they wanted to come back, they found that they had either gotten off, they call it the mommy track, right? The train left the station, they couldn't make it back on. Or they weren't willing to take a lower job. And so, because of that, many of them ended up not working. And, you know, that's sad. Because these are really, really smart, brilliant ... >> Lisa: These are Harvard graduates, right? >> They are. Harvard Business School graduates that were not working. And so, like you said, it requires everyone to understand, right? It's the employers, a lot of these men, need to understand that women, if they want ... And by the way, it's not even women these days. It's young men who want to be with their families, as well. Paternity leaves, time off with the kids, those sorts of things. If you allow those people that freedom. You know, when I was young, I felt like I went through this by myself. So I had three kids five and under. My career was not progressing. I was just doing lateral moves and I didn't feel like I was successful in anything. Not successful in my job, not successful at home. And then I had no friends, 'cause I was too busy and work and home. But if I had more of a support network at the time, fortunately I didn't drop out. I could have. I think many people do. So, if we can provide more support at that really important time when they're raising their families, people can see that, "Hey, I can have a great family life and also a great work life." >> So key, just for support alone. And that's one of the things that I think is really exciting about Women Transforming Technology. It's this consortium of organizations and industry and academia and non-profits, coming together to identify and tackle these issues that we're facing. 'Cause the issues that women are facing are issues that corporations, profitable corporations, are facing. But to connect on these challenge points, provide that support and that network, and also, to your point, maybe even providing an unlikely mentor to somebody who might have in your position where, "I don't think I'm being successful anywhere." But you stuck with it, and you might have at times gone, "I don't know why I'm sticking with this." But you had some intestinal fortitude to do that. More of those supportive and mentoring voices and people, the more we can elevate them, and show them to other people who might be struggling, the better we're going to be able to move this needle. >> Completely agree. And you know what? They always say "it takes a village," right? It takes a village to raise a family. It takes a village to work and do what you need to do and make a change in the world, and we all need to do this together. And, by the way, there's nothing more inclusive than that, is there? >> Lisa: Right. >> We all have to deal with this. It doesn't matter your sexual orientation, your age, your gender, your ethnicity, doesn't matter. We all share in this common bond, right, around how do we integrate our work and our life. >> Kathy, brilliantly said. Thank you so much for stopping by the CUBE and sharing your experiences and your wisdom. I, for one, was very inspired. So thank you for your time. >> Thank you, I was inspired as well. I really appreciate it. >> Oh, thank you. Thank you for watching the CUBE. We are on the ground at VMware for the Women Transforming Technology event. Thanks for watching. (music)

(electronic music) >> Announcer: From the VMware campus in Palo Alto, California, it's theCUBE! Covering women transforming technology. >> Hi, welcome to theCube. Lisa Martin on the ground at the 3rd Annual Women Transforming Technology event at VMware in Palo Alto, and I'm joined by an author and a senior VMware engineer, Pratima Rao Gluckman. Welcome to the Cube, Pratima. >> Thank you, Lisa. It's great to be here >> It's great to have you here. So you have been an engineer here for about ten years. You knew from when you were a kid, love this, engineer, you knew you wanted to be that. You fell in love with your first programming class. It was like a Jerry McGuire, you complete me kind of moment I'm imagining. Tell me a little bit about your career in engineering and specifically as a female. >> Okay, so I was raised, born and raised, in India, and I grew up in an environment where I was gender blind. You know, my oldest sister played cricket for the country. >> Lisa: Wow! >> And it was a man's game! You know and a lot of people kind of talked about that, but it wasn't like she couldn't do it, right? So, I always grew up with this notion that I could do anything, and I could be whoever I wanted to be. And then I came to the United States, and that whole narrative stayed with me, the meritocracy narrative. Like you work hard, you know, society, the world will take care of you, and good things will happen, but it wasn't until 2016 was when I had this aha moment, and that's when I suddenly felt, suddenly I was aware of my gender, and I was like, okay I'm a female in tech, and there's lots of challenges for women in tech. And I didn't quite realize that. It was just that aha moment, and VMware has been a great company. I've been with VMware for nine years, I started as an engineer, and I moved into engineering management. We had Diane Greene who founded the company, the culture was always meritocratic, but I think something in 2016 kind of made me just thinking about my career and thinking about the careers of the women around me, I felt like we were stuck. But at the same time be focused on the women that were successful, for instance Yanbing Li, who's our senior VP and general manager of our storage business. And we were talking about her, and I said, this is what I said, I said, "There are some women who are successful despite everything "that we're dealing with, and I just want "to know their stories, and I'm going to write this book." The moment I said that it just felt right. I felt like this was something I wanted to do, and the stories in this book are inspiring stories of these women, just listening to Laila Ali this morning, her inspirational story, and this book has around 19 stories of these executive women, and they're just not role models, I mean every story offers strategies of how to thrive in the tech world. >> So interesting that first of all I love the title, Pratima, of this book, "Nevertheless She Persisted." So simple, so articulate, and so inspiring. So interesting, though, that you were working as an engineer for quite a few years before you realized, kind of looked around, like, whoa, this is a challenge that I'm actually living in. Yanbing is a CUBE alumni, I love her Twitter handle. So you said all right, I want to talk to some women who have been persistent and successful in their tech careers, as kind of the genesis of the book. Talk to us about, maybe, of those 19 interviews that range from, what, c-levels to VPs to directors. What are some of the stories that you found, what kind of blew your mind of, wow, I didn't know that you came from that kind of background? >> So when I started off I was very ambitious. I said I'd go interview CEO women, and I did a lot of research, and I found some very disturbing facts. You know, Fortune Magazine lists Fortune 500 companies, and they rank them based on their prior year's fiscal revenues, and from that data there were 24 women CEOs in 2014. That number dropped to 21 in 2015, and it dropped again in 2016, but it went up slightly in 2017 to 32 women, which is promising, but back in 2018 we're down to 24. So we have very very few women CEOs, and when I started off I said I'll talk to the CEO women, and I couldn't find any CEO women, my network, my friends' network, And so I dropped one level and I said let me go talk to SVPs and when I looked at VMware and VMware's network, Yanbing was one of them, so she's in the book, and then I reached out to contacts outside of my network. So I have some women from LinkedIn, I have Google, I have Facebook, I have some women from startups. So I have around four CEOs in the book, I've got, and what's great about this book is it's got a diverse set of women. Right? They have different titles; I've got directors, senior directors, VPs, Senior VPs, GMs, and CEOs. And some of them have PhDs, some of them have a Master's Degree, and some actually don't have formal training in computer science. I thought this would be interesting because a woman with any background can relate to it. Right? And so that was helpful. And so that's kind of how I went off and I started to write this book. And when I interviewed these women, there was a common theme that just kept emerging, and that was persistence. And they persisted against gender bias, stereotype threat, just the negative messages from media and society. I mean like Laila Ali was talking about just even the messages she got from her dad. >> Right. >> Right? Someone who was so close to her who basically said "Women can't box." And that didn't stop her; I mean she persisted. When I was listening to her, she didn't use the word, but, you know, she said she was believing in herself and all that, but she persisted through all those negative messages, right? And she said no one can tell her what to do. (laughs) >> Yeah her confidence is very loud and clear, and I think that you do find women, and I imagine some of them are some of the interviewees in your book, who have that natural confidence, and as you were saying when Muhammad Ali was trying to talk her out of it, and trying to, as she said, "He tried to get me think it was my idea," but she just knew, well no, this is what I want to do. And she had that confidence. Did you find that a lot of the women leaders in this book had that natural confidence? Like you grew up in an environment where you just believed "I can do this, my sister's playing cricket." Did you find that was a common thread, or did you find some great examples of women who wanted to do something, but just thought "Can I do this?" And "How do I do that?" What was the kind of confidence level that you saw? >> I was surprised because I had a question on imposter syndrome, and I asked these women, Telle Whiteney, who's the CEO, she was the CEO, ex-CEO >> Lisa: Grace Hopper >> Yes. The founder of Grace Hopper. I asked her about imposter syndrome and this is what she told me, she said "I feel like I'm not good enough" and that actually gave me goosebumps. I remember I was sitting in front of greatness and this is what she was telling me. And then I asked her "How do you overcome it?" and she said "I just show up the next day." And that actually helped me with this book because I am not an author. >> That's persistence. >> I mean I am an author now but 2 years ago when I started to write this, writing is not my forte. I'm a technologist, I build teams, I manage teams, I ship products, I ship technical products, but everyday I woke up and I said, "I'm feeling like an imposter." It was just her voice right? Yanbing also feels the same way, I mean she does feel times where she feels like, "I'm lacking confidence here." Majority of the people actually, pretty much all the women, this one woman, Patty Hatter, didn't feel like she had imposter syndrome but the rest of them face it everyday. Talia Malachi who's a principal engineer at VMWare, it's very hard to be a PE, she said that she fights it every day, and that was surprising to me, right? Because I was sitting in front of all these women, they were confident, they've achieved so much, but they struggle with that every day. But all they do is they persist, they show up the next day. They take those little steps and they have these goals and they're very intentional and purposeful, I mean just like what Layla said, right? She said, "Everything that I've done in the last 20 years "has been intentional and purposeful." And that's what these women did. And I learned so much from them because 20 years ago I was a drifter (laughs) you know I just kind drifted and I didn't realize that I could set a goal and I could reach it and I could do all these amazing things, and I didn't think any of this was possible for me. But I'm hoping that some girl somewhere can read this book and say "You know what this is possible", right? This is possible and you know role models, I think we need lots of these role models. >> We do I think, you know imposter syndrome I've suffered for it for so long before I even knew what it was and I'll be honest with you even finding out that it was a legitimate issue was (exhales) okay I'm not the only one. So I think it's important that you, that these women and youth are your voice, in your book, identified it. This is something I face everyday even though you may look at me on the outside and think, "She's so successful, she's got everything." And we're human. And Laila Ali talked about of having to revisit that inner lawyer, that sometimes she goes silent, sometimes the pilot light goes out and needs to be reignited or turned back up. I think that is just giving people permission, especially women, and I've felt that in the keynote, giving us permission to go, "Ah, you're not going to feel that everyday, "you're not going to feel it everyday." Get up the next day to your point, keep persisting and pursuing your purpose is in and of itself so incredibly empowering. >> Right but also imposter syndrome is good for you and I talk about that a little bit in the book. And you know why it's good for you? It's you getting out of your comfort zone, you're trying something different, and it's natural to feel that way, but once you get over it, you've mastered that, and Laila talked about it too today she said, "You get uncomfortable to the point "where you get comfortable." >> Lisa: Yes. >> So every time that you find that you have this imposter syndrome, just remember that greatness is right around the corner. >> Yep. I always say "Get uncomfortably uncomfortable". >> Pratima: Yes. >> And I loved how she said that today. So one of the big news of the day is VMWare with Stanford announcing that they are investing $15,000,000 in a new Women's Leadership Innovation Lab at Stanford. Phenomenal. >> Pratima: Yes. >> And they're really going to start studying diversity and there's so many different gaps that we face, wage gap, age gap, gender gap, you know mothers vs motherless gap, and one of the things that was really interesting that, I've heard this before, that the press release actually cited a McKinsey report that says, "Companies with diversity "on their executive staff are 21% more profitable." >> Yes. >> And that just seems like a, no duh, Kind of thing to me for organizations like VMWare and your other partners in this consortium of Wt Squared to get on board to say, "Well of course." Thought diversity is so important and it actually is demonstrated to impact a companies' profitability. >> Right, yeah. And that's true, I just hope that more people listen to it and internalize it, and organizations internalize that, and what VMWare's doing is fantastic. I mean I'm so proud to be part of this company that's doing this. And you Shelly talked about change right? She said, "I think, right now the way I feel "about this whole thing, is we need to stop talking about "diversity and inclusion, we just need to say "enough is enough, this is important, let's just do it." >> Lisa: We should make this a part of our DNA. >> Exactly. Just make it, why do we have to fight for all this, right? It's just pointless and you know, men have wives and daughters and mothers and you know, It impacts societies as a whole and organizations, and we have so much research on this and what I like about what the Stanford Research Lab is doing is, they're actually working with woman all the way from middle-school to high-school to the executive suite, and that's amazing because research has now shown, there was a report in March 2014 by a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, for Judith Warner, and so she documented, just with the rate of change, like I talked with all the percentages and the number of women CEOs, just with that rate of change, the equality of men and women at the top will not occur until 2085. >> Lisa: Oh my goodness. >> That's 63 years from now. That means all our daughters would be retired by then. My daughters was born on 2013 and so she won't live in a world of female leaders that's representative of the population. And so that realization actually really, really, really broke my heart and that made me want to write this book, to create these role models. And what Stanford is doing, is they're going to work on this and I'm hoping that they can make that transition sooner. Like we don't have to wait 'till 2085. I want this for my daughter. >> It has to be accelerated, yes. >> It has to be accelerated and I think all of us need to do that, our daughters should be in the 20s, 30s when this happens, not when they're in their 70s. >> Lisa: And retired. >> And retired, I mean we don't want that. And we don't know how that number's going to get pushed further, right? Like if we don't do anything now... It. (exhales) >> Lisa: Right. 2085 becomes, what? >> I know! It's insane. >> In the spirit of being persistent, with the theme of this 3rd annual Wt Squared being Inclusion in Action, you're a manager and in a people or hiring role, tell me about the culture on your team and how your awareness and your passion for creating change here, lasting change. How are you actually creating that inclusion through action in your role at VMWare? >> So what I do is when I have to hire engineers on my team, I talk to my recruiter, have a conversation, I'm like, "I need more diversity." It's just not women, I want diversity with the men too. I want different races, different cultures because I believe that if I have a diverse team I'm going to be successful. So it's almost like I'm being selfish but that is very important. So I have that conversation with my recruiters, so I kind have an expectation set. And then we go through their hiring process and I'm very aware of just the hiring panel, like who I put on the panel, I make sure to have at least a women on the panel and have some diversity. My team right now is not really that diverse and I'm working hard to make that because it is hard, you know the pipeline has to get built at a certain point, and then start getting those resumes, but I try to have at least one female on the panel, and during the selection process the first thing I'll tell them is, let's get the elephant out of the room, age, gender, whatever, like let's take that out, let's just talk about skills and how well this person has done in an interview. And that's how I conducted and you know I've had fairly good success of hiring women on the team. But I've also seen that it's hard to retain women because they tend to drop-out faster than the men and so it's constant, it's just constant work to make that happen. >> Yeah. I wish we had more time to talk about retention because it is a huge issue. So the book is Nevertheless, She Persisted. Where can people get a copy of the book? >> So you can get it on Amazon, that's, I think, the best place to get it. You can also get it from my publisher's site which is FriesenPress. >> Excellent well Pratima thank you so much for stopping by. >> Thank you. >> And sharing your passion, how your persisting, and how you're also helping more of us learn how to find that voice and pursue our passions, thank you. >> Thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching. We are TheCUBE on the ground at VMWare for the Third Annual Women Transforming Technology Event. I'm Lisa Martin thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From the VMware campus in Palo Alto, California, it's theCUBE, covering women transforming technology. (electro music) >> Hey, welcome to theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin on the ground at VMware in Palo Alto at the third annual, Women Transforming Technology event. Really excited to be here. I am joined by Shelley Correll, the director of The Clayman Institute for Gender Research at Stanford. Shelley, exciting day, welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you, good to be here! >> Lisa: Big news. >> Very big news! >> Lisa: So you're also the founding director of The Center for Advancements of Women's Leadership. The Clayman Institute has been around since 1974, but you've been partnering with Vmware for the last five years? >> Shelley: Yes, in a variety of ways, yes. >> So talk to us about the big announcement today with Vmware and The Clayman Institute. >> Well we're very exited, we've been working with VMware for five years, as you said, in a variety of different capacities, And have really been engaged with them over the idea that we could better connect academic research with practice. And so, the news we had to announce today is that they are investing 15 million dollars into our efforts and we're going to be launching a new lab that's going to be focused on advancing women's leadership. >> Lisa: Phenomenal. Talk to us about some of the foci that you're going to be focusing on to accelerate the change we need, not just to bring more eyes and ears in dollars to it but accelerate it. >> I'm glad you used that word, that's exactly what it's about, it's accelerating. We come into this with research that shows very clearly that the progress, in terms of moving women into leadership, has just all but stalled. The progress we're making is very slow, and if we just sit back and wait, we're not going to see, you and I aren't going to see gender equality, in our lives, our daughter's lives. It's not going to happen. And so we're asking ourselves, what can we do to accelerate change? And so, to me, one of the most important things that we need to be doing is bridging the gap between academic scholarship, which tells a lot about the barriers to women's leadership, with the kind of activities that organizations are doing, the diversity initiatives their putting in place. If we can join forces, then I think we can better accelerate change. And so that was kind of the idea behind this lab. We really have three main things that we're hoping to accomplish. One is to diagnose the barriers to women's advancement, across all kinds of diversity that women occupy and own. So understanding those barriers, and then second is piloting solutions, working within companies to develop interventions that we can put in place, so we can learn how to get beyond the barriers. That's the kind of next thing that we're doing. And third, is just to be a hub of information. We're going to take these learnings from our research and translate them into tools that people can use, to be able to put research into action and in their own organizations. So that's the three-prong goal of this new laboratory. >> Lisa: So exciting. And it's something that, you know, as we talk about, it's 2018 and this is still such a massive issue. It's been very widely known for a long time that the numbers of women in technical roles in technology is what, below 25%. But something I found interesting when I was doing some research on you is that there's also this motherhood penalty that I was unaware. Tell us a little bit about what that is and how is that something that maybe this new innovation lab will help to eliminate? >> Right, and I think it's important because when we think about putting solutions into place, we know that they're not going to be, sort of, one-size-fits-all solutions. They're going to differ for different kinds of women. And in my own research on the motherhood penalty, what we found are very clear gaps between women who are childless and women who are mothers. And in fact, the wage penalty that we usually talk about, the gender wage gap, is largely a gap between mothers and childless women. And so, we got to asking ourselves, why? Why would a women who's a mother be so penalized relative to a childless woman? So we've got gender inequality, and now we've got this motherhood penalty on top of that. And so, our research found that if you take a resume for a woman and you just add in subtle information that she's a mother, >> Lisa: Like on the PTA, or something. >> The PTA association, that people are 100% less likely to recommend her for hire. >> 100%? >> 100%, yeah. You know, it's a huge gap there, and so, as we dig deeper, what we see is that people's stereotypes about mothers, are that mothers are so committed to their families that they couldn't possibly be committed to their job. Every one of us who work with mothers in the workplace know that's not the case, right? But yet that's the stereotype that's holding mothers back, in addition to what we find for women in general, if you will. >> So if a man on his resume has that he is a soccer coach or a baseball coach, that is not factored into the decision to not hire him? >> Well it is, but guess what? It advantages him, it doesn't disadvantage him. >> Lisa: Advantages? Yes, so for fathers, we find that people see fathers as more committed to the job than childless men. So, we're seeing how parenthood works differently for men and women in the workplace. So I think one of the barriers we want to get past is the effects of biases on how people are evaluated, and they're not just gender biases. They're biases about gender, but also about parenthood, about race, about ethnicity, about sexuality. I mean, all of those things intersect in complex ways. So, it means that we're going to see different barriers for different types of women, if you will, and that means also that we're probably going to need to have different kinds of solutions as well. >> Absolutely, so something that interests me is, you know, in the last six months, me too movement exploded on the scene, times up, Brotopia, a recent book out by Emily Chang, that is shocking to say the least, very informative, enlightening. When those movements popped up and there was a, sort of, unlikely alliance with Hollywood, I'm curious, we're you like yes, good, we have some momentum here that we need to be able to leverage to making the gaps, as you said, there's so many that women face, more sensible intact, was that kind of a let's get on the same bandwagon? Yes, you have to ride these waves when they happen. The problems that me too is identifying are certainly not new problems, and this has been going on as long as women have been in the work place, but the attention to it is what's new, and so, as a scholar when there's attention to important social problem that you research, you ride that wave. We've got the world's attention now. Let's use that attention to take the messages about what we know from research and the strategies we have and get them out to people that need them, so it is an opening that allows us to take the me too, kind of, moment that we're in and really turn it into a movement that produces sustainable change. >> We need to get our own hashtag. (laughter) What are some of the things that say in this next, what are we almost and half way through 2018, which is kind of scary. What are some of the, maybe, the small ones or the quick ones that you think with this new VMware partnership that you're going to be able to identify and uncover in 2018? >> We've been working a lot on ways to reduce unconscious biases in the workplace. I think some of the projects that we're launching are really about going into organizations and diagnosing where a bias might be affecting how they're evaluating women at the points of hire, at promotion, as we're thinking about who to put all the stretch assignments. So identifying the way those biases are occurring in workplaces and then working with managers in those organizations to design tools to help get beyond those biases. This is some work that we have stared initially that we're now expanding to more research sites and so I think that's one of the first things to do is to really go in and try to remove these biases that don't, they're not good for women, but they're not good for the organization either. If you're biased against women, what that means is you're not valuing women's talent and any organization wants to accurately assessing the talent of people in their workplace. >> I think I read in a press release this morning that a McKinsey report that said that organization, if I can, yes. According to McKinsey, companies with diversity on their executive teams are 21% more profitable than those who lack diversity. Profits. >> I know, it's profit. We see it with innovation, too. It makes sense if you think about it, right. If our biases we causing us to see women as less talented than they are and maybe men as more talented then they are, what that means is we're not hiring on average the most productive, talented people. I think all organizations want to source and hire the best people they can, and so we're moving these biases as one way of doing that. And, when we remove those biases, I think improvements or diversity will follow. >> When you look at a company that's been around for a long time and you think wow, culture is very slow to change. >> Shelley: Right. >> How do you advise organizations that have been around for decades that are predominantly male led, especially at the executive level, to just be more aware and open to changing the culture to, you know, maybe it's hey, you could be 21% more profitable. >> Shelley: Exactly. >> Who doesn't want that? >> Shelley: Who doesn't want that, yeah. >> How do you have the conversation with an accumbent about cultural change? >> Right, and I think sometimes people think culture is just sort of what it is and cannot be changed, but we can make small wins, small improvements in that culture, and so one of the things that has been most effective in our research is to go in and work with managers on trying to improve how they're hiring people, how they're promoting people, and so the conversation isn't really about culture. It is at a deep level, but it doesn't seem like that at the surface level. It's really about how can you more accurately asses talent, and when you start asking that question, what you start seeing is the ways that you were assessing talent before were flawed in some ways and they were flawed in a way that was limiting your ability to see women's abilities and their talents. The conversation really is just about doing what I think we all want to do, which is truly evaluating people based on their merits, and I think if that's the message, a lot more people are on board with that. The other thing I'll say is when we had, we were working with a company who was telling us that one of the ways they assessed people for promotion was they wanted their leaders to be very responsive to people in the organization, and that's a great value to have, right, to be responsive. When we probe them about how do you know when someone's responsive, they didn't really. First they couldn't articulate how they were evaluating that. What it became clear is without clear criteria for assessing responsiveness, they're implicit measures were like how quickly does this person respond to email. They realized that women weren't being as quick responding to email, especially during the dinner hours. I think you and I can know exactly why that is. >> Right. >> They they got to starting thing, well that isn't maybe the very, that's not a very good measure of leader responsiveness, and they went back to look at their responses from women and they were more elaborate, they were more detailed, they were more helpful, and so the measure they were using was sort of, it was biased against women, but it was also not productive for what they were trying to do. These are the kind of small wins that open people eyes to the fact that they could do things differently that would be good for diversity and inclusion and would be good for what they're trying to do as an organization, the bottom line as well. >> Wow, what are the other things. We talked about, you know, the numbers of women in technical roles is very small, under 25%. Another big challenge that we have in technology is attrition, and the fact that more women leave tech for other industries than women leave other industries. >> Shelley: Exactly. >> What are some of the things that your research has shown that companies can do to also, not just focus on bringing in young talent or working with universities on STEM programs, but for women that are maybe in the middle of their, whether they're thinking about the leaving the to have a family or simply this is not the right environment for me. That retention from middle career. What are some of the things that you found there? >> Yeah, and I'll say too about, I think one of the sort of narratives that people tell themselves in companies is that women are leaving tech to have children, but women don't leave tech to have children at any higher rate, and actually a lower rate than other professions, so it's not, that's not the reason they're tech at a higher rate than some other places. There's something else going on there. I think working on improving the inclusion and the environment is really important for retaining women. Surveys that sort of show why people left their jobs find that in tech, a big reason women leave tech compared to other places is they don't feel like they're supported in the workplace, more so than in other places, even including other STEM fields, like science and things like that. Higher exit rate because they don't feel included in the workplace, so the question is, what's the barrier there? What are we doing in our workplaces that women in tech don't feel included and what can we do to change that. I think, again, removing some of these biases, if you're in a workplace where you constantly feel like your talent is not being appreciated, that's one way you quickly don't feel included as a technical worker. I think this sort of cultural change that we're talking about is probably even more important for retention than it is for hiring. >> Do you think that younger companies maybe start us maybe, you know three to four years old or less than 10 year's, we'll say, have a better chance at being able to morph quickly and pivot than a larger company that's been around for decades? >> Yeah, I mean, it's much easier to get things right to begin with, you know, so people sometimes ask you know when they're founding a company how soon, you know, do we need to have a woman on board, and my answer is always as quickly as possible, and I you get to 10 employees with no women, you're already behind the curve. Really, kind of starting off with the idea that we want to get the culture right to begin with so that we don't end up having to scramble the eggs later down the road, and that's one of the things we've learned from working with VMware, is early on in the founding of this company, there was an attempt to create the kind of culture that I think more companies are wanting to emulate today. >> We've got Betsy Sutter coming on a little bit later and I'm really curious to talk to her about coming on years ago, when VMware was a start up 100 people. >> Shelley: Exactly. >> And now being in this chief people officer role of an organization of 20,000 and here we are at VMware today walking into a room of females who are here to really kind of embody what the charter of this consortium of WT Squared is, is connecting and inspiring, but supporting women and tech of all levels, right, not just here in Silicon Valley, but beyond as well and having the powers coming together from industry, from acidemia, from non-profits is, it's a very, the vibe when we were in the key note just an hour ago was so palpable that there's certainly that we will create change. >> Betsy's so inspirational to me in this regard, is that she has been here since 2001 and was sort of critical to getting the culture in place at that point in time and, you know, it's not that VMware doesn't have challenges with hiring and retaining a tech. All companies do, but they've created a culture from the beginning that I think is kind of a model for what companies are wanting to do today. >> Last thing before we wrap, here, is we had the opportunity to listen to Laila Ali and so cool. >> Shelley: So cool. >> I mean, just to hear a confident women, who was probably born with a natural confidence, that women have and some women don't, but to hear her talk about hey, sometimes this interwar, the flame is out or it's low and I, too, have to say this is my purpose. This is my passion. I don't want to have to look around and constantly think I'm in a man's sport. I know, this is my sport. I thought just that having that world kind of talk to us, women intact to say hey, it's going to take reminding yourself often what your purpose is, what you're passion is, but she challenged us to do that and I just thought it was a really encouraging, inspiring message for everyone to hear so early on a Tuesday morning. >> We run sort of a leadership program for high school girls and this whole issue of purpose is something that we really stress as well is when you're trying to lead and people aren't following, stop and ask yourself what was the purpose in doing what you're doing and articulate that purpose to others and that's the way you can kind of bring people along. I just loved her example today about when you're not feeling confident, go back and ask yourself why, the question of why. It's too easy to go through life just doing things and losing our sense of purpose and that really is a good source of confidence because you're doing something for a reason that really matters to you. That will help recharge you. >> Absolutely. Shelly, thanks so much for stopping by. >> I enjoyed it, I enjoyed it. >> TheCUBE this morning and sharing your purpose and the exciting news of what VMware and the Clayman Institute are going to do. We look forward to hearing some of the great stuff that comes out in the next few years. >> That sounds great. Thank you, nice to talk to you. >> And we want to thank you. You're watching theCUBE. We are on the ground at VMware at the 3rd Annual Women Transforming Technology event. I'm Lisa Martin. Thanks for watching. (funky music)