[Music] welcome back to red hat summit 2021 my name is dave vellante and you're watching the cube where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise of course virtually in this case and i'm pleased to welcome victor carumpus who is the senior vice president of digital banking at bank mandiri coming in from jakarta welcome to the cube victor great to see you hi dave great to see you and great to be invited here thank you yeah you're very welcome i i wonder if you could just give us an overview of the bank maybe talk a little bit about your strategy your customers you know what the what the focus is of your company and what your role is there okay uh maybe i'm i'll give a short overview about bang mandir itself so bang money is a state-owned enterprise owned by the government but we also public company currently we already have a very big distribution channel in so uh you know indonesia is an island country it's very huge country so we are we are representing all over indonesia from province of aceh and i'm up to profits of papua and we have about 2600 branches all over indonesia and about uh 15 000 atms all over indonesia so bangladesh itself is focused on a lot of segment customers like indonesia from the corporate side small medium enterprise and also retail banking now uh we are we are currently focused in turning ourselves to become having to have more digital capability and currently in our uh current situations actually it is very good uh about 95 percent of our transactions is already coming from the electronic channel so it's only about five percent that coming from the branches but we know that this is still a journey uh and we are building more digital capability and features and functions on our digital channels to our customer got it um okay and so your your your digital journey kind of coincides i guess in a way with your your your container uh adoption journey uh i think that started a few years ago um and so maybe you could talk a little bit about that i i mean in thinking about modernizing your application portfolio obviously containers been around forever but they weren't packaged in a way that could actually be easily you know utilized and now you're seeing people in i.t roles like yourself really leaning in maybe you could talk about some of the technology considerations that impacted that desire to actually leverage containers i think uh first it's about the scalability because with a monolithic architecture it's kind of difficult to scale up for only specific features by doing container microservices we have options to scale up in a very fast way because one of the features is auto scaling on the container architectures uh one monitor is a very focused on the transaction banking so you might say bangladesh is supporting the economy of the country because in a in any given time in bangladesh we we're running about four thousand transactions per seconds that's a huge transactions number and have having said that uh our channel like i told you already running about 95 percent of the transactions so scalability is always important for us because especially like like now is the the in indonesia is a festive month it's a ramadan month where muslim is actually doing fasting but at the same time actually there's a lot of needs and people do a lot of transactions and on this kind of festive seasons the transition can be increased up to 40 or 50 suddenly and that's kind of things always happen in bangladesh and we must be ready and we must have a scalability on demand now containerization is enabling us to do that other thing is about flexibility because on the old days actually when we want to set up a new environment it's very difficult and takes a lot of time and that's affecting the time to market our products by doing the containerizations and putting it on a ci cd continuous integration called the development plan platform we are we call devsecops platform that kind of things becoming automatic because we set up the devsecos platform and the third one is the consistency actually so by by doing the contact investigations we can put the the apis on our back-end apis in the container itself and actually it's deliverable environment and a consistent experience to our customer because for example we promise our customer that every transaction should be finished within two seconds from their mobile banking up to our hosts and back forward to their mobile banking is only two seconds so that kind of thing is driving us to move to the current technology which we're using containerization and micro services great okay so 4 000 transactions per second you can't can't do that on erc20 ethereum for all you crypto fans out there that's that's pretty high volume uh and if i understand it correctly victor your role is really to envision this digital environment and then ultimately make it happen from a technology standpoint is that correct that's product that's got it yeah so okay so you now have a number of of product lines and teams you're using the same container platform maybe you could share with our audience some of the best practices and learnings that that you've taken away on this journey so i think first of all we can reuse a lot of components by doing this containerization platform is different when we still use the monolithic platform like the application server of java application server uh by using containerization actually uh be providing like a service banking as a service so whenever we build a new channel for example the first one we built a new service for example like a fun transfer service but when we create another channel for example a corporate banking electronic channel or we create another uh let's say wealth management channel whatever we already built before can be reusable instantly by using this technology so uh if i might say that actually there is a lot of best practices coming by using this platform and my team get a lot of benefit in terms of faster development time and also they can deliver the product and service in a high quality manner minimize the number of errors as well you know there's a lot of choices out there obviously i wonder if you could share what led you to the choice of red hat and open shift okay so first of all before we choose the platform actually we also comparing ourselves with the with the fintechs and also with the big tech in indonesia as well so we see we see that actually they already start using kubernetes and uh their platform is quite stable and even they can support about 90 to 100 million of customers without any issues at all so when we see this uh we choose a lot of we learn about a lot of platform and we finally choose opencv because we think that openshift and we we already do our research openshift is quite stable and for banks like us that have for having 4500 transaction per seconds stability is number one uh availability is also number one now uh having said that after doing our research we choose openshift and we implemented openshift in our environment because we promise our customers to provide 99.95 percent uh availability can i just i'm sorry to interrupt you victor can you just repeat that you cut out a little bit so you you said you you promised your customers to deliver and then you cut out a little bit can you just repeat what you just said there okay so we're giving a promise to our to our customer providing a 99.95 availability so this is the starting point of our channel sure in the efficiency we have efficient also to providing four nines which is 99.99 but i mean the starting point is 99.95 and because we have that the demand that requirement that's one of the reason we choose the openshift and red hat as our technology stack platform got it okay and so i have a question um what was it like in terms of just the skills and the adoption uh for your developers uh was it was it a big gap to go from where you were to you know where you are today did you have to what kind of training did you have to do did you have to do any sort of outsourcing to accelerate that maybe you could describe that how you close that skills gap so definitely in the beginning is quite challenging because although they are using modern languages like jaffa or kotlin but uh to understand the concept and to design correctly yes we we did a lot of training to them uh it takes a it takes me about three months to give them the proper training uh in terms of building the right uh microservices platform and also to building modular architecture in terms of the customer channel because this will be the fundamental when you build it correctly in the beginning and actually at the later point you will enjoy the benefit so the first three months actually is training and doing research and development and doing a lot of trial and errors but after the three months actually we already have the right technology stack have the right models and our devsecops is already working then actually after that the speed is very fast because uh it sprints uh we do agile way of working the agiles dlc it's only one month so every one month we already have new features coming in so that's what we call a huge transformation a digital transformation inside of our bank it's three months actually not bad i mean i would i would have thought on average it's going to take five or six months to get people up to speed so three months is pretty good and i'm also inferring that you weren't just paving the cow path you weren't just saying okay let's take our traditional and then you know re refactor it to digital you had to re-envision what digital looked like because the digital is different uh than the traditional uh so so that's actually pretty good uh ramp rate i wonder if you could just go ahead and comment if you could because when you say about uh revamp so actually it's not on the id side not only but also the business side we implement new way as well so actually if clearly they're implementing a new model so they're using a design thinking and also a co-creation model where now when we building a product so we're not writing the old product in a new way no we totally building it from from scratch and involving our key customer and our stakeholder when we're building this product so actually we implementing new models what we call design thinking and also uh co-creation with our customer so that's actually changing the face of the customer electronic channel a lot and and actually when we when we want to to deploy we invite our customer to test it first we call it like usability testing if they like it we continue to design if they they don't like it they give us a feedback how they would like it to be changed and and that's we appreciate our customer feedback because customers experience is everything now yeah so so the product can be accepted if the experience on that product is really making customer uh solving their problem solving the customer problem and making them enjoying uh doing transactions in our mobile banking product i think this is a really important point for people to understand so you weren't just paving the cow path i call it you're taking the old and and just trying to refactor it and make it exactly turn it into digital you had to really think about the business the business processes the dependencies the customer experience and then bring it back um what have been some of the business outcomes of this initiative and maybe you could we then after that we can get into some of the the future plans so so the outcome uh i think this journey uh since last year uh not last year actually since no october 2019 we already started the journey uh what took us by surprise is actually the pandemic uh suddenly the first three months when we have the pandemic of coffee we are being forced to close a lot of branches for temporary because we want to avoid the pandemic situations and that time actually the the demand using our digital channel is increasing a lot but because we already prepared actually we get the benefit one of the thing is uh the business benefit is relating so during the pandemic nobody can come to the branch and mostly the account opening actually happening online so uh we even got about 9000 account opening per day which is something that we are not imagining before so uh the benefit is very clear by using this this technology actually enabling us to provide digital capability for our customer and enabling us to open more accounts we see ourselves can grow even not linear but exponentially grow by using this platform uh talking about that indonesia is a is a huge country with we have about 200 250 million populations and actually there's still a lot of people is not having a bank account at all now by doing this actually we open opportunity doing financial inclusion for those people that need a banking account now they can reach us by using the digital platform as well yeah that's an awesome story and it goes back to the to the reason the real motivator for for moving to kubernetes and containers was scale uh and and you know it's you obviously started your digital journey prior to the pandemic but a lot of customers and i'm sure you as well were were forced to speed up a portion anyway of the digital component uh because of the pandemic like you said you couldn't people couldn't walk into the branches so but now you've got some more time to think about that journey you've had a lot of learnings 2020 was like a petri dish of experimentation but but in real time having to serve customers what's the future look like for the bank's technology journey okay so basically we uh we are not stopping only on the retail side yeah uh we want to redefine our customer journey also on the wholesale side and also on the small medium enterprise there is still a lot of things that need to be done uh and required by the customer actually so uh on the on the on the sme side we want to give them easier access uh for uh financing their businesses i think when we are back to the new normal uh the business need to have funding for for starting their business again so building an sme platform for them will will help a lot and will help the country as well on the retail side actually like i told you uh we are focusing on the more financial inclusion because uh i give you example right uh from the 230 million of indonesians uh populations i think by today maybe it's only about 50 million customers that already have a banking account so there is still a lot of people that need an access faster and cheaper and more efficient way for doing banking transactions so that's this also will become our focus and the last part is actually corporate what we see now a lot of the corporate require us to open uh api connectivity doing open banking with them the government actually the central bank supporting it supporting all the banks they are trying to create an api playbooks now and then they create they want to create an api standard for all the core all the use corporate also can connect it to the bank directly using api so this is also our focus because it will help the country economy when the economy costs the transaction costs getting more efficient getting more cheaper and there's a lot of transaction can be supported by our bank as well so i think i think that's the the future that we are imagining and i'm really hope that the pandemi will be finished and we come back to the to the new normal and we can support more transactions for this country yeah you're here to that i call it the new abnormal but so this is this is a great story everybody loves to talk about disruption we do as well and but people think oh it's out with out with the old in with the new and it's not like that this is a great story victor of uh of an established incumbent that is modernizing its its applications and its digital experience and of course the incumbent has the advantage of it's a real business it has customers that has a data it has experiences it and if it can modernize its infrastructure and and it's in its application portfolio it actually has an advantage because it's got way more features way more data way more customers and more resources so victor thanks so much for coming on thecube i really appreciate you sharing your story thank you dave thank you for inviting me thank you that was our pleasure and thank you for watching red hat summit 21 this is thecube you

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban cloud brought to you by silicon angle. Hi. I'm still Minuteman. And welcome back to the Cube on Cloud. Talking about really important topics is toe how developers we're changing how they build their applications where they live. Of course. Long discussion we've had for a number of years, you know? How do things change in hybrid environment? We've been talking for years. Public cloud and Private Cloud and really excited for this session. We're gonna talk about how edge environment and ai impact that. So happy to walk back. One of our cube alumni, Simon Crosby, is currently the chief technology officer with swim. Got plenty of viewpoints on AI the edge and knows the developer world. Well, Simon, welcome back. Thanks so much for joining us. >>Thank you, sir, for having me. >>All right. So let let let's start start for a second. Let's talk about developers, you know, used to be, you know, for for years we talked about, you know, what's the level of abstraction we get? Does it sit? You know, you know, do I put it on bare metal? Do I virtualized it? Do I contain Arise it. Do I make it serve? Ellis? Ah, lot of those things. You know that the app developer doesn't want to even think about. But location matters a whole lot when we're talking about things like a I where do I have all my data? That I could do my training? Where do I actually have to do the processing? And, of course, edge. Just changes by orders of magnitude, Some of the things like Leighton see, and where data lives and everything like that. So with that as a set up would love to get just your framework as to what you're hearing from developers and what will gettinto Some of the solutions that that you and your team are helping them toe do their jobs >>where you're up to lights to the data onslaught is very riel. Companies that I deal with are facing more and more real time data from products from their infrastructure from their partners, whatever it happens to be, and they need to make decisions rapidly. And the problem that they're facing is that traditional ways of processing that data or to so so perhaps the big data approach which by now is a bit old. It's been long in the tooth, Um, where you stored it and then you analyze it later is problematic. First of all, data streams of boundless so you don't really know winter analyze. But second, you can't store all. And so the story and analyze approach has to change and swim is trying to do something about this by adopting a process off. Analyze um, on the fly. So as dead is generate as you receive events, you don't bother Saw them. You you analyze them, and then if you have tow you still the data. But you you need to analyze as you receive data. Andre react immediately to be able to generate reasonable insights or predictions that can drive commerce and decisions in the real world. >>Yeah, absolutely. I remember back, you know, the early days of big data, you know, real time got thrown around a little, but it was usually I need to react fast enough toe. Make sure we don't, you know, lose the customer, we react toe something. But it was we gather all the data and let's move compute to the data. Uh, today is you talk about real time streams are so important. We've been talking about observe ability for last couple of years to just really understand the systems and the outputs More than, uh, looking back historically at where things were waiting for alerts. So could you give us some examples, if you would, Is toe You know that those streams, you know what is so important about being able to interact and leverage that data when you need it? And, boy, it's great if we can if we can use it then and not have to store it and think about it later. Obviously, there's some benefits there because >>every product nowadays has a CPU, right? And so there's more and more data and just let me give you an example. Um, swim processes real time data from more than 100 million mobile devices in real time, Um, in for a mobile operator. And what we're doing there is We're optimizing connection quality between devices and the network. Now that volume of data is more than four petabytes per day. Okay, now there is simply no way you could ever store that and analyze it later. The interesting thing about this is that if you adopt and analyze. And then if you really have to store architecture, you get to take advantage of Muslim. So you're running at CPU memory speeds instead of a disc speed, and so that gives you a million fold speed up. And it also means you don't have the Leighton see problem off reaching out to her boat storage, dead base or whatever. And so that reduces cost so we can do it all about 10% of the infrastructure that they previously had for her do style implementation. >>So maybe would help if we just explain when we say edge, people think of a lot of different things. Is it? You know, on I o. T device sitting out into the edge Are we talking about the telecom edge? We're watching a WS for years, you know, Spider out their services and into various environment. So what when you talk about the type of solutions you're doing and what your customers have is that the Telkom edges that the, you know, actual device edge, you know, where where does processing happen and where do these, you know, services that that work on it live? >>Uh, so I think the right way to think about edges. Where can you reasonably process the data? And it obviously makes sense to process data at the first opportunity you have. But much data is encrypted between the original device. Say Onda. The application and so edge as a place doesn't make as much sense as edge as an opportunity to decrypt and analyze data in the clear. So is computing is not so much a place in my view as the first opportunity you have to process state in the clear and to make sense of it. And then edge makes sense in terms of Leighton, see, by locating compute as close as possible to the sources of data, um, to reduce latency and maximize your ability to get insights. You know, Andre return to uses in, you know, quickly. So edge for me often is the cloud >>excellent. One of the other things I I think about back from, you know, the big data days or even earlier It was that how long it took to get from the raw data to processing that data, to be able to getting some insight and then being able to take action. Uh, it sure sounds like we're trying to collapse That completely. Is that you know, how do we do that? You know, Can we actually, you know, build the system so that we can, you know, in that real time continuous model that you talk about, You know? So what character movements? One >>of the wonderful things about cloud computing is that two major abstractions really served us on. Those are rest which expect this computing and databases and rest means in the old server can do the job for me. And then the database is just a napi I call away. The problem with that is that it's desperately slow. So when I say desperately slow, I mean, it's probably thrown away the last 10 years, Um, was law. Just think about this way. Your CPU runs at gigahertz and the network runs at milliseconds. So by definition, every time you reach out to a data store, you're going a million times slower than your Cebu. That's terrible. It's absolutely tragic. Okay, so a model which is much more effective is to have and in memory, computing architecture er in which you engage in state will computation. So instead of having to reach out to a database every time to update the database and whatever you know, store something and then fetch it again a few moments later when the next event arrives. You keep state in memory and you compute on the fly as data arrives and that way you get a million times speed up. You also end up with this tremendous cost direction because you don't end up with as many instances having to compute by comparison. So let me give you a quick example. If you go to a traffic dots from the AI, you can see, um, the real time state off the traffic infrastructure in Palo Alto. And, um, each one of those, um intersections is predicting its own future. Now, the volume of data from just a few 100 lights in Palo Alto is about four terabyte today. And sure, you can deal with this in AWS Lambda. There are lots and lots of servers up there. But the problem is that the end to end per event leighton see, is about 100 milliseconds. And you know, if I'm dealing with 30,000 events a second, that's just too much so solving that problem with a stateless architectures is extraordinarily expensive. You know, more than $5000 a month. Where is the staple architectural? Which you could think of as an evolution all for, uh, you know, something reactive or the actor model, Um, get you, You know, something like 1/10 of the cost. Okay, so cloud is fabulous for things that need to scale wide, but a state formal is required for dealing with things which update you rapidly or regularly about their changes in state. >>Yeah, absolutely. I You know, I think about if we were talking, I mentioned before AI training models often, if you look at something like autonomous vehicles, the massive amounts of data that it needs to process, you know, has to happen in the public cloud. Um, but then that gets pushed back down to the end device. In this case, it's a car because it needs to be able to react in real time and get fed at a regular update. The new training algorithms that that it has there. Um what are you saying? You know, we >>were reviews on on this training approach and the science in general, and that is that there aren't enough the scientists or no smart people to train these algorithms, deploy them to the edge and so on. And so there is an alternative worldview, which is a much simpler one, and that is that relatively simple algorithms deployed at scale to staple representatives. Their school, you know, digital twins off things, um, can deliver enormous improvements in behavior. Um, as things learn for themselves. So the way I think the at least this edge world gets smaller is that relatively simple models off things will learn for themselves for their own futures based on what they can see and and then react. And so this idea that we have lots and lots of very scientists dealing with vast amounts of information in the cloud, Um, it's suitable for certain algorithms, but it doesn't work for the vast majority of our applications. >>So where are we with the state of what the developers need to think about? You mentioned that there's compute in most devices. That's true, but you know they need some special in video chip set out there. Are there certain programming languages that that you're seeing more prevalent? Yeah, you know, interoperability. Give us a little bit of toe, you know, some tips and tricks for for those developing >>super so number one a staple architectures is fundamental and sure react is well known. Andi, there are, For example, on er lang swim is another. So I'm going to use some language. And I would encourage you to look at Cem O s or G to go from play there. A staple architecture, ER which allows actors small, concurrent objects to Stapley evolve their own state based on updates from the real world is fundamental. But the way in swim, we use data to build these models. So, um, these little agents for things we call them Web agents because the object I'd is a your I, um they staple evolved by processing their own real world data safely representing it. And then they do this wonderful thing, which is build a model on the fly, and they build a model by linking to things that they're related to. So a knit section would link to all of its sensors. But it would also licked all of its neighbors because the neighbors and linking is like a sub in pubs up and it allows that Web agent then to continually analyze, learn and predict on the fly. And so every one of these concurrent objects is doing this job off and analyzing its own raw data and then predicting from that and streaming the results so and swim you get stream board data in. And what streams out is predictions. Predictions about the future state off the infrastructure, and that's a very powerful staple approach, which can run all the memory. No stories required, by the way. It's still persistence. If you lose the no, you can just come back up and carry on. But there's no need to store huge amounts of raw data if you don't need it. And let me just be clear. The volumes of raw data from the real world are staggering, right? So for Porter by today from Palo Alto. But Las Vegas, about 60 terabytes today from the traffic lights, Um, no more than 100 million mobile devices is is tens of petabytes per day, which is just too much the store. >>Well, Simon, you'd mentioned that we we have a shortage when it comes to data scientists and the people that could be involved in those things. How about from the developer side? Do most enterprises that you're talking to? Do they have the skill set? Is the ecosystem mature enough for the company take involved? Or what do we need to do? Looking forward, toa help companies be able to take advantage of this opportunity. >>Yeah, So there is a huge change in terms of, I guess just cloud native skills. Um, and this is exacerbated. The more you get out into, I guess what you could think of as traditional kind of companies, all of whom have tons and tons of data sources. So we need to make it easy and swim tries to do this by effectively using skills of people already have Java or JavaScript and giving them easy ways to develop, deploy and then run applications without thinking about them. So instead of finding developers to notions of place and where databases are and all that sort of stuff, if they can write simple, object oriented programs about things like intersections and push buttons, a pedestrian lights, and in road loops and so on and simply relate basic objects in their world to each other, then we let data build the model by essentially creating these little concurrent objects for each thing, and they will then link to each other and solve the problem. We end up solving a huge problem for developers to which is that they don't need to acquire complicated cloud native skill sets to get to work. >>Well, absolutely. Simon, that's something we've been trying to do for a long time. Is to truly simplify things. I wanna let you have the final word. Uh, if you look out there, uh, the opportunity that challenge in the space, what final takeaways would would you get our audience? >>So very simple. If you adopt a staple competing Achter should like swim, you get to go a million times faster. The applications always have an answer. They analyze, learn and predict on the fly, and they go million times faster. They use 10% less. No. So 10% off the infrastructure of a store than analyze approach. And it's the way of the future. >>Simon Crosby. Thanks so much for sharing. Great having you on the program. >>Thank you too. >>And thank you for joining. I'm stew Minuteman. Thank you. As always for watching the cube. Yeah,

>>live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Splunk dot com. 19. Brought to you by spunk. >>Okay, welcome back. Everyone secures live coverage in Las Vegas response dot com. I'm John Ferrier, host of the Cube. We're here for three days is a spunk. Spunk dot com 10 anniversary of their end user conference way Got some great guests here. They talk about diversity, inclusion breaking the barrier. Women in tech We got some great guests. Jane Heights, I add Si io National government service is Thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. Carol Jones, CEO Sandy and National Labs from Albuquerque Think coming on to CEOs of excited Suzanne McGovern. Diversity and inclusion talent leader for Splunk Thanks for guys joining us. Really appreciate it. I want to get into a panel you guys discuss because this is the area of really important to the workforce. Global workforce is made up of men and women, but most of the software text built by mostly men. But we get that second. I want to get in, find out what you guys are doing in your rolls because you guys, the journey is breaking through the barrier. Start with you. What's your role. What do you do? Their CEO. >>So I am CEO for National Government Service Is we do Medicare claims processing for the federal government. We also have a number of I t contracts with CMS. And, um, I organ. I have an organization of 331 people. Very different organization, Data center, infrastructure security gambit of I t, if you will. A great group of people divers were in Baltimore. Where? In Indianapolis. We're out of the kingdom office. How >>long have you been in 19 >>My career. So yes. Yeah. The waves. Yes. I have seen the waves have Daryl >>Jones and I'm c i o same National Laboratories. It's a federally funded research and development center. So we do research and development from on behalf of the U. S. Government. I have about 500 employees and 400 contractors. So we provide the I T for Sadia, all gametes of it, including some classified environments. >>A lot of security, your role. What's wrong? >>I'm the chief diversity officer. It's Plus I get the pleasure to do that every day. A swell, a cz. It's everyone's job. Not just magically explode. But I'm very honored to do that. How to look after talent. >>I want to compliment you guys on your new branding. Thank not only is a cool and really picking orange, but also that position is very broad and everything is trade message. But the big posters have diversity. Not a bunch of men on the posters. So congratulations, it's anger. Representative is really important. Worth mentioning. Okay, let's start with the journey. The topic you guys just talked about on a panel here in Las Vegas is female leaders smashing the glass ceiling. So when you smash his last ceiling, did you get caught? Was her bleeding? What happened? Take us for your journey. What was big? Take away. What's the learnings? Share your stories. >>Well, a lot of it, as I shared today with Panel, is really learning and be having that Lerner mindset and learning from something that you do, which is part of your life. And I use the example of I'm married to an Indian Muslim, went to India, spent some time with his family, and they told me Let's be ready at 6 30 and I said, Okay, I'm ready. I'm ready. Dressed in 6 30 nobody else was ready. And everyone in the room said, Well, we're gonna have Chai first we're gonna have some tea And I was like, Well, you said 6 30 and I'm ready And, um, everyone said, Well, you know, we need to relax. We need to connect. We need to have some time So I took that back and said, You know what? We all need to make time for tea Way. All need to connect with our people and the individuals that work with us, And I've kind of taken that on through the last 20 years of being married, Tim. But connecting with individuals and your teams and your partner's is what's important and as what Lead Meeks. I've built those allies and that great group of people that >>being people centric, relationship driven, not so much chasing promotions or those kinds. >>That's what's worked for me. Yes, >>Carol, it's been your journey. Stories >>start a little bit of beginnings. I've been in Tech over 30 years. I got a bachelor's and marketing, and then I was looking to get my master's. So I got, um, I s degree, but I didn't know even to go into that field. So my professor said you needed to go into my s, so don't know that's too hard. You can't do that. You know, you could do it. So it's always been challenging myself and continuing learning. I worked at IBM then I was there in the time when they did great layoffs. So no, e he was 93 right to left. Only wonder he's gonna be left by the end of the year. >>You know, for the younger audience out there M I s stands from management information systems. Before that, there was data processing division which actually relevant today. Quite a journey. What a great spirit. What's the one thing that you could share? Folks, this is a lot of young women coming into the workforce, and a lot of people are looking at inspirational figures like yourselves that have been there and done that. There's a lot of mentoring going on is a lot of navigation for young women and understand minorities. And they just you guys, there's no real playbook. You guys have experiences. What's your advice, folks out watching >>my number one advice. And I gave this to people who are wanting to go into leadership. Trust yourself. Trust to you. Are you all got to this place because of the successful person you are and just continue to trust yourself to take advantage of those opportunities. Take a risk. I took a risk when my total focus was in Medicare. I was asked to do another job and I took another, you know, position. And it wasn't in Medicare. So you have to take those opportunities and risk and just trust that you're gonna get yourself. >>Carol. You're >>similar. It's to continue to grow and to be resilient, there'll be times in your career like a layoff where you don't know what you're gonna do. You bounce back and make it into uneven. Better job on. Take risks. I took a risk. I went into cybersecurity. Spent 10 years there, continuing learning and the Brazilian >>learnings key, right? I mean, one of the things about security mentioned 10 years. So much has changed, hasn't it? >>Well, it's bad. Guys still outnumber the good guys. That has changed faster. Exactly. Technologies change. >>Just talk about the diversity inclusion efforts. You guys have a Splunk Splunk cultures very open transparent on the technology solutions very enabling you actually enabling a lot of change on the solution side. Now we're seeing tech for good kind of stories because Texas Tech Tech for business. But also you're seeing speed and times value time to mission value, a new term way kicked around this morning. It's time to mission value. >>Yes. So I'm glad you mentioned data, right? We're data company, and we're very proud that we actually whole star diversity inclusion numbers, right? So way moved the needle 1.8% on gender last year, year on year pride, but not satisfied. We understand that there's much more to diversity inclusion than just gender, But our strategy is threefold for diversity. Inclusion. So it's work force, workplace marketplace farces around just where talk is improving our representation so that these women are no longer the only. These are in the minority that were much more represented, and we're lucky we have three women and our board. We have four women in our C suite, so we're making good good progress. But there's a lot more to do, and as I say, it's not just about gender. We want to do way, nor the innovation is fueled by diversity. So we want to try. You know, folks of different races, different ethnicity, military veterans, people with disability. We need everyone. It's belongs to be, since >>you guys are all three leaders in the industry, Thanks for coming on. Appreciate that. I want to ask you guys because culture seems to be a common thread. I mean, I do so money talks and interviews with leaders for all types, from digital transformation to Dev ops, the security and they always talk speeds in fees. But all the change comes from culture people on what I'm seeing is a pattern of success. Diversity inclusion works well if it's in the culture of the company, so one filter for anyone a woman or anyone is this is a company culturally aligned with it. So that's the question is what do you do when you have a culture that's aligned with it? And what do you do? There's a culture that's not allow, so you want to get out. But how do you unwind and how do you navigate and how do you see the size of signals? Because the date is there >>a way to certainly really harness and failed a culture of inclusion. And that's through employee resource groups in particular. So it's plunks. More than 50% of our spelunkers are actually members. Followers are allies on employee resource. So gives community. It gives that sense of inclusion so that everyone could bring their whole Selves to work. So, to your point, it really does build a different culture, different level of connection. And it's super different. >>Any thoughts on culture and signals look for good, bad, ugly, I mean, because you see a good ways taken right. Why not >>take a chance, right? Right. No, I think, you know, like you look at it and you decide, like some young women we were talking to, You know, Is this the right company for you? And if not, can you find an ally? You know, it's a feeling that the culture isn't there and helped educate him on help to get him to be Jack of what does he and his leaders, I think we have to always ask ourselves, Are we being inclusive for everyone >>and mine? I would spend it a little bit. Is that diversity and thoughts And how? When I joined this organization. Culture is a big factor that needs to change and some of the things that I'm working on, but to bring people to the table and hear those different thoughts and listen to them because they all do think differently. No matter color, race, gender, that sort of thing. So diversity and thought is really something that I try to focus in on >>carry. Palin was just on the Cuban CMO of Splunk and top of the logo's on the branding and, she said, was a great team effort. Love that because she's just really cool about that. And she said we had a lot of diversity and thought, which is a code word for debate. So when you have diversity, I want to get your thoughts on this because this is interesting. We live in a time where speed is a competitive advantage speed, creativity, productivity, relevance, scale. These air kind of the key kind of modern efforts. Diversity could slow things down, too, so but the benefit of diversity is more thought, more access to data. So the question is, what do you guys think about how companies or individuals could not lose the speed keep the game going on the speed and scale and get the benefits of the diversity because you don't want things to grind down. Toe halts way Slugs in the speed game get data more diverse. Data comes in. That's a technical issue. But with diversity, you >>want a challenge that, to be honest, because we're a data company in the details. Irrefutable. Right? So gender diverse Teams up inform homogeneous teams by about 15% if you take that to race and ethnicity was up to 33%. Companies like ourselves, of course, their numbers see an uptick in share price. It's a business imperative, right? We get that. It's the right thing to do. But this notion that it slows things down, you find a way right. You're really high performance. You find a way best time. So it doesn't always come fast, right? Sometimes it's about patients and leadership. So I'm on the side of data and the data is there. If you tickle, di bear seems just perform better, >>so if it is slowing down, your position would be that it's not working >>well. Yes, I know. I think you got to find a way to work together, you know? And that's a beautiful thing about places like spun were hyper cool, right? It's crazy. Tons of work to do different things were just talking about this in the break way have this unwritten rule that we don't hire. I'll see jerks for >>gender neutral data, saris, origin, gender neutral data. >>Yeah, absolutely no hiring folks are really gonna, you know, have a different cultural impact there. No cultural adds the organization way. Need everyone on bats. Beautiful thing. And that's what makes it special. >>I think you know, is you start to work and be more inclusive. You start to build trust. So it goes back to what Jane was talking about relationships. And so you gotta have that foundation and you can move fast and still be reversed. I >>think that's a very key point. Trust is critical because people are taking chances whether they're male or female. If the team works there like you see a Splunk, it shouldn't be an issue becomes an issue when it's issue. All right, so big Walk away and learnings over the years in your journey. What was some moments of greatness? Moments of struggle where you brought your whole self to bear around resolving in persevering what were some challenges in growth moments that really made a difference in your life breaking through that ceiling. >>Wow. Well, um, I'm a breast cancer survivor, and I, uh, used my job and my strength to pull me through that. And I was working during the time, and I had a great leader who took it upon herself to make sure that I could work if I wanted. Thio are not. And it really opened that up for me to be able to say, I can still bring my whole self, whatever that is today that I'm doing. And I look back at that time and that was a strength from inside that gave me that trust myself. You're going to get through it. And that was a challenging personal time, But yet had so many learnings in it, from a career perspective to >>story thanks for sharing Caroline stories and struggles and successes that made him big impact of you. Your >>life. It was my first level one manager job. I got into cybersecurity and I didn't know what I was doing. I came back. My boss of Carol. I don't know what you did this year, and so I really had to learn to communicate. But prior to that, you know that I would never have been on TV. Never would have done public speaking like we did today. So I had to hire a coach and learn hadn't forward on communications. Thanks for sharing stories, I think a >>pivotal moment for me. I was in management, consultants say, for the first half of my career, Dad's first child and I was on the highway with a local Klein seven in the morning. Closet Night started on a Sunday midday, so I didn't see her a week the first night. I know many women who do it just wasn't my personal choice. So I decided to take a roll internal and not find Jason and was told that my career would be over, that I would be on a track, that I wouldn't get partner anymore. And it really wasn't the case. I find my passions in the people agenda did leadership development. I didn't teach our role. I got into diversity, including which I absolutely love. So I think some of those pivotal moments you talked about resilient earlier in the panel is just to dig, dying to know what's important to you personally and for the family and really follow your to north and you know, it works out in the end, >>you guys air inspiration. Thank you for sharing that, I guess on a personal question for me, as a male, there's a lot of men who want to do good. They want to be inclusive as well. Some don't know what to do. Don't even are free to ask for directions, right? So what would you advise men? How could they help in today's culture to move the needle forward, to support beach there from trust and all these critical things that make a difference what you say to that? >>So the research says that women don't suffer from a lack of mentorship. The sucker suffer from a lack of advocacy. So I would say if you want to do something super easy and impactful, go advocate for women, go advocate for women. You know who is amazing I there and go help her forward >>in Korea. And you can do that. Whatever gender you are, you can advocate for others. Yeah, also echo the advocacy. I would agree. >>Trust relationships, yes, across the board >>way, said Thio. Some of the women and our allies today WAAS bring your whole self. And I would just encourage men to do that, to bring your whole self to work, because that's what speeds up the data exchange. That's what it speeds up. Results >>take a chance, >>Take a chance, bring your whole self >>get trust going right. He opened a communicated and look at the date on the photo booth. Datable driver. Thank you guys so much for sharing your stories in The Cube, you think. Uses the stories on the Cube segments. Cube coverage here in Las Vegas for the 10th stop. Compass Accused seventh year John Ferrier with Q. Thanks for watching.

>>Live from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering UI path forward Americas 2019 brought to you by UI path. >>Welcome back to Las Vegas. Everybody. You're watching the cube, the leader in live tech coverage. This is day two of UI path forward UI pass, third North America event and we're excited to be here. This is our second year here. Daniel DNAs is here. He's the CEO of the rocket ship known as UI path. Welcome back to the cube. Great to see you again. >>Thank you. Thank you for inviting me here. >>Oh, so it's our, it's our pleasure and it's been great to be able to document this and we've been saying all week that we see the ecosystem developing the customer base, that UI path very reminiscent of some of the very successful companies that we've seen. But we've never seen a company sort of growing this fast. I have to start with you. Our big idea person kind of go big or go home mentality. But did you really see it getting here so fast? >>Well we, we kind of see it a year ago going here. I can not say that. I've seen it five years, five years ago, I couldn't see, I couldn't see me even in front of a hundred people speaking not to talk about 3000 like can close today, yesterday. >>Well, it's gotta make you very happy. You set it up on stages. When you see your saw the software that you developed, your, you're a developer, you're a coder affecting people's lives. The way some of the examples that you gave, it was a little tear in your eye maybe out of saying, but how to tug at your heart a little bit. That's got to be as a developer and of course now CEO, that's gotta be very gratifying to see your technology have an impact on people's lives. >>Okay, well I can tell you it is a really gratifying, in the end it's, um, we, we, we've built technology, you know, to, first of all, we are proud as engineers to build the best technology that we can, but it's, uh, it makes us a lot more, it's a lot more touching seeing that you can help humans to become better, to become healthier, to even save lives, to help refugees. It's a, it's an amazing feeling. It's when >>I talk to people about robotic process automation, most people don't, don't really are connected and they'll say things to me like, really is there that much room for automation? We've been in the computer industry for 50 years, we've been automating everything back office, front office. How much more room is there? And you put forth the premise last night in your keynote essentially said technology is actually created inefficiencies that >>despite all the automation that we've had now we have all these processes that can be improved. So necessarily the first time I had heard that put forward. I guess my question is, so technology got us into this problem, can technology get us out? >> Yeah. Um, first of all, I'm a software engineer, so I didn't believe there are so many inefficiencies in within the business world. I fought the law. Gender prizes should have been automated completely. Everything should run as move, as ineffectually. But in reality, the alert is far away from this. And as I said yesterday, email and a pro plus activity tools, especially spreadsheets and line of business application has changed completely. How we perform or in front office and back office. But uh, it's, it's a lot of skit work because it's, it's work created when people build business processes, they work with different systems and they always touch the system by looking at the user interface of the, by looking at human readable interfaces of these systems and uh, and when you go and automate them it's kind of difficult to translate into a BIS. >>So where are the at the on the field. So our approach is just through replicates Q months using the same tools, the same thing. Knowledge is that thought for media to business people building and the it's the only way that can work at scale. Of course you can take one particular process, build an it project flow developers with them be successful but you cannot do it. The large scale that an enterprise has, it's the only technology that can work at the large scale. Like I believe in the transportation industry, self-loving cars are the only solution to the industry or not. It's not feasible to say I will build much larger freeways. No, you put self driving cars or self driving trucks driving in the night on the freeway and this is how you will free daily, you know, everything else for the norm of agriculture. Same sort of concept. >>Like there's nothing, I can't make more land. Right? But as you grow your company, um, you guys growing so fast, are you able to use automations to support that growth? I'm sure there are some inefficiencies in it because there's a pace of growth. Helped me understand that this is, this is our story. So way we've built initial finance processes, finance, HR, procurement processes in the very manual slides using people and then scaling up when each a point where we've become a big consumers of all our own technology. It's not, it's not about what we use the most modern systems in the world. It's not a vote that they are not integrated. It's about all the, all the words build by this business people, all the reports that we are creating or all this stuff required a lot of work. We have automated more than a hundred thousand manual hours within you iPod today. >>A mother company built on the best technology stick, all that. Do you feel, feel like that's part of the reason why you've been able to grow so fast? Maybe faster than other historical examples of software companies? Systems are one thing way we weren't able to grow as fast by couple of reasons. First of all, we went global from day one. We were not the typical Silicon Valley company that says I will win in North America and then I will replicate this model across the world because they lose about three to five years in Muslim America just Lang to perfect the machine at least at least then we just went when globally they want an hour. It helps because we can make a business case easy so we can, we can go into a lot of gentle price, show them how it works and it does not require such a huge investment. >>That list to get started and second is it's evolved our culture. We put the big emphasize in keeping our culture customer focus and we put humility as the core. Then that evolved culture and I, I know it might sounds a bit pretentious to see, we put humility, but it's a humility that gives you a, a great, great framework of how you operate. You can, it makes you listen to people, it makes you able to change your mind. It makes you actually accelerate because people that change their mind or they look to find foster better solution that people that are stuck and they need a lot of data until they make, because they are afraid of losing face in making decision. So it's something that works. So it's uh, it's this, those two things combined gave us this cake. It's very interesting you say that because there's a lot of ways to skin a cat. >>Um, many companies have succeeded with extremely dogmatic approach. I mean, I would argue Microsoft, much of its success was it was built around personal productivity, you know, or bust. Um, yet your philosophy is be more open minded. You're humble. Listen to the customers change fast if necessary. Kind of a different philosophy maybe than some others have used in the past. I believe that our philosophy is, is helping us, I don't know, maybe a Microsoft has change. Yeah, exactly that. Satya. So, so it's uh, it's not, so I think this is, this is built in the fabric of how humans operate. We talk to other humans, we learned their needs and then we address their needs. I think it's arrogance to say, I know your boss, I will do this is what you have to do. Like many more traditional software companies are doing, we were very fortunate to build these products by listening to customers. >>That's, that's luck. You don't have to find product market fit. Listen to customers. Market is big. Bring what they want. Well the funny thing is, you know, we talking about the analysts meeting and I do remember you, you're there the other day. You said that you made a bunch of mistakes early on that you got ahead a build it and they will come a mentality. You've kind of built it and then you had to go out, listen to people and figure out how to apply it. Right. Actually I've been using a lot of parallels to service now. It's kind of right. Fred Luddy did, he built, he built a platform and then the VC said, well what do we use it for? He goes, anything good? He had to go and talk to people into the route. Okay, how do I apply it? But you said, well kind of made some mistakes early on, but you recovered from those mistakes by listening. >>It sounds like the definitely in the bill. Coming from a software engineer background, I, uh, I have, uh, at least I had the tendency to don't give enough credit to sales, to marketing even to the customers it was, we clearly understand the customers in the, so we build technology for the sake of technology. So we were really fortunate to have some MALDI customers. We didn't understand how because I fought that custom was, should all to themselves to test and find the best technology out there and just go there. I was really kind of, I had a lot of blind sports, so on how this world operates, but after I've stopped it to visit customers and understand their pain points and their requests actually realize they are smarter than us in using our own technology because they use it in the real world. So then message that that completely transformed my thinking. So I went back to my engineering team, sunlight, unlike the one guys on this day, I don't want to ever hear, we don't fix bugs and we do features and we do this. When the customers say, you do this, you say, thank you, thank you for showing me the light. I will do this. That's, that makes me create a better broad your feet >>back as a gift. The feedback is a gift. So I want to ask you about the statement you made yesterday in your keynote about we are cloud first and you announced a SAS capability today. I said I signed up, took me seconds, and now I've got to do some work to invite some other people and start doing some automations. But when you were in your apartment in Bucharest or wherever you started the company, why not cloud then? >>Most of our customers are still on prem. So way we have to be where customers are with the clouds first four years ago we wouldn't be here today. Oh. So we started close to the customers way and learn a lot from really large customers that thought a bit more reluctant to go into cloud and now as I think all in all in life is about timing. I think it's the right time timing to benefit the other segments of the market and allow for automation on demand was the infrastructure. Bryce, that people that are still on prem pay are huge. Compare some in some companies only to provision a server would be like 200 K period one time on. Then you have people to maintain them. Offering a many surveys by us in our own cloud looking at the best, you know, we create the best infrastructure, most efficient. We have the best people understanding our technology. We're seeing it. I think it's a great business proposition, but now we were ready to do it. >>Well, plus it sets up potentially new pricing models, you know, consumption based pricing models. You hear a lot of, a lot of row, a lot of bots, uh, are, are sitting idle as a customer. Help just charge me when I'm using violet, thinking of, you know, the serverless and functions. But this is possible only with economy of scale. So the cloud is, you're going to your cloud, you're not going to build it on Azure or AWS or you guys may use, we'll use Bob Lee Clow shows, which is infrastructure. You just have this look Chelios. Yeah. Okay. Um, I'm going ask you about, uh, IPO. Um, what, can you share with us your thoughts? You know, the window seems to be closing a little bit different, right? You know, Uber's and now Slack, you know, not such a successful. And what are your thoughts on IPO? Well, I think that the enterprise software >>companies were actually pretty successful in IPO and this year. And they have one of the, you know, a lot of just multiples that we have. We're seeing. So you cannot compare marketplace companies like who you are or Lyft to enterprise software. So I think for a good enterprise software company, they will always be a place to land a good IPO regardless of timing. Timing is, doesn't work for us. We are still, we are still a young company in many ways. We are 40 years old company. So it will be one of the yellow most earliest IPO. Very, very, very early. We need the bit, we need more at least one year. Like we want do an IPO in 2020, but we've been here the 2021 would be a good year for that. Depends on the climate, but we have met on the client, you have them, you're very well capitalized. Right? It's not like you need to do upsell Kevin the motivation and we still have five would bribe private Gabby. The markets are very frothy so you can still raise a lot of money and very good volume. >>Right. So the motivation for IPO is, is what awareness maybe for the employee. >>Yeah. Exited for the employees. And, uh, you'll just get to a size where you cannot be prideful. And most of our customers are public and they are much more comfortable dealing with the public. >>Yeah, for sure. It's part of your transparency edict, but I mean, well a lot of companies that have raised a ton of dough at the Cloudera for example, waited and waited and waited and then, you know, they go public. It's like, then the public doesn't get to participate in the upside. So I'm sure you're having those conversations thinking about it though. You know, the little guy wants to invest too and you're like, yeah, why not, right? Yeah. So let's go this. It's very exciting times and as you say, it depends on the time and we'll see what happens with the 2020 election who can, who can predict those things. But, so I want to ask you about the Capitol because software is a very capital efficient marketplace, but, but we see companies, you know, you included raising hundreds of millions, sometimes a billion plus dollars. Why such large raises? Where do you see that going? You mentioned engineering, you'd have plenty of money to do engineering. Is it really promotion? We tried to get to escape philosophy. We >>build a big market and we have invested in a mode in order to, if you go fast, well let's take cold car. Okay, the fosters or car go, the more guess it consumes. Right, so you need, if you want to comprise the time, it's costly, but that helps you extend much faster when when large markets and build a large bill, really a large company. In the short time, we could have been much more efficient if we, instead of four years, we would have built this company in 10 years. Many companies, if they would reach our size in 10 years, I will still be happy, but we've done it in four instead of 10 and then it was if you have unit capital to grow fast, >>I think it's the right approach because I do think there's going to be consolidation in this market and I think the company that achieves escape velocity and you are the favorite to do that now, we'll do very, very well. I think the market's much larger than the market forecast suggests. I think the Tam is way, way, way under, and again, we call this on service now as well. We saw this early on at the core. People tell how the core is really not that big, but, but the, but the adjacencies and the potential market is, it's, it's, it's way more than 16 billion or whatever that number is you showed. I think it's, it's, it's, it's 30 40 you know, perhaps even even bigger. >>I think as people realize that this is the really, the only way you can achieve automation on this, a smaller type of processes, but large volume, I think they will. They will go more and more. >>Well then, I know you're super busy and you've got to go. Thanks so much for coming again. Thank you guys for watching. Keep it right there. We'll be right back. Right after this short break. You're watching the cube from UI path forward three right back.

>>Live from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering UI path forward Americas 2019. Brought to you by UI path. Hello everyone and welcome >>do the cubes live coverage of UI path forward. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, co-hosting alongside of Dave Volante. We are joined by Layla Delage. She is the chief information and digital officer at Coca-Cola. ECEK thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank you. Great to be here. Very exciting. And also Christina Perala, she is the group RPA lead at Generali. Thank you so much for coming into, for inviting me. Thank you. So I want to hear from you both about what, what your industry is and what your role is. Level. Let's start with you. Okay, great. Um, so we are, um, one of the Rogers bottlers within the Coca-Cola system. Uh, we produce, distribute and sell Coca Cola company products. The operating around 10 countries are middle East and central Asia and parts of middle East, Pakistan, Syria and Turkey. They are actually born out of Turkey and that's where our central offices, um, we've operate with 26 plants, around 8,500 employees. >>Uh, we serve a consumer base of 400 million and we have around close to 1 billion, uh, customers. Uh, and we continue to invest in the countries where we operate. And my role is to film and my role is all things digital within this community. So leading technologists, leading technology, all things digital. Yes. So Christina, tell us about Generali. Generalia. Sikora Zuni is a leading insurance company as the presidency. Enough 50 countries worldwide and more than a 70,000 employees that were wider. So it's a bigger company, not only for insurance. And my role with the internet rally group is to leader the LPA program. So I'm inside of the group that I in digital. So am I inside this group, I'm very focused on smart process automation. So RPA plus AI, because a has a, we already know all I loudly, LPA without a AI is announcer nowadays. So we have to keep on talking about AI, machine learning algorithms to enrich, uh, uh, the capabilities of basic robotic sell, hand reach, also the Antwerp and automation of processes. You're the CIO and the CDO. Yes. Yes. That's unique. First of all, there's one that's unique too. It's even more unique than a woman has both roles. So what's the reason behind it? So, um, there's definitely a reason behind it. I joined the Coca Cola >>system about a year ago, so I'm just a over a year in the company. The reason actually I wanted to make sure that we highlight the CIO and CTO CDO role together is, um, I want to advocate for all the it organizations to transform and really get into the digital world and get into the world of advanced technologies, become strategic business partners. Get out of the kitchen, I call it kitchen kitchen, it, you know, get out of the managing of data centers or cloud and um, just the core foundational systems and applications. Get into the advanced technology, understand the business, gain business acumen and deliver solutions based on business needs. So to highlight that, I want to make sure that I hold the role of both and I'm able to be advocate of both worlds. Cause digital without it support is not able to accomplish what they need to accomplish and it needs to get into more of the digital space. And Christina, as the RPA, you write bots, you evangelize the organization. >>Um, mostly the second. So in generally we have a, a very, uh, so, uh, sort of ivory the organization. So for something we are very decentralized, for example, for the developing of robots or the deploying for the action, the operational stuff and so on. Uh, but uh, for some stuff like a guidelines, uh, uh, risk framework to ensure that robots can do their work in the right way with notice to all for the business processes, uh, for this stuff before guidelines, framework, best practice sharing. We are a central centralized, we, we try to be centralized. So, uh, my role is to try to collect is to collect and not try and super lat, uh, best practices and share with you in the companies chair, uh, um, the best use cases. And, uh, also tried to gather what are the main concerns, what are the difficulties in order to a facilitator and to boost smarter process automation of the option. So >>Laila, you are up on the main stage this morning. You, I Pat highlighted Coca Cola itchy as a, as a customer that is embraced automation, embrace the UI pass solution. So tell us a little bit about the challenges you are facing and then why you chose I a UI path. So as I joined the company, uh, I introduced a very strong digital strategy that required a lot of change and it's within a company that has been very successfully operating all these years and doing pretty much know what to do very well. And all of a sudden with digital we are starting to disrupt the, are trying to say, Hey, we've got to change the way, do some of the things. Um, so belief in digital and belief that it can really bring efficiency and outcomes was very important. And I needed a quick win. I needed to have a technology or a solution or an outcome that I would generate very quickly and show to the whole organization that this can be done and we can do this as Coca-Cola. TJ. >>So that was, that was RPA, that was our PA for this fascinates me because you're an incumbent business, been around for a long time. you're a bottler and distributor, right? So yeah, processes are around the bottling plants and the distribution system. Yes. And now you're transforming into a digital business. Yes. I'll put data at your core. Totally not start his daytime customer. Okay. So describe the difference between the traditional business and what it looks like when you've transformed, particularly from a data perspective. And then I want to understand what role RPA plays. So we are definitely a very data rich company, however, to call ourselves data rich and to call it a strategic asset, I first need to capture and control my data and I have to treat it like a strategic asset. So that is a huge transformation. The second, once you treat it as an asset, how do you generate more insights? >>And I call this augmenting the gut feeling. I have an amazing gut feeling in the company. How do I augment that with data and provide our, this is partners and then our customers and our suppliers and some of the information. And then obviously future maturity level is, you know, shared economy and data monetization, et cetera. So that's how I describe within the company. And then assets, other assets like our plants and coolers cooler, we call it cooler, you know, where do you actually see all our products? They are called, they are visible and they are available, but they are also in that set where I can turn them into a digital cooler and I can do so much more with the cooler that standing. And I recently, in one of our leadership meetings I said we have as many coolers as the um, population on the fishy Island, which is close to 1 million. >>So just imagine in this new world, in this digital era, everything that you can do by just having a cooler, 1 million coolers present out there on the street, I can serve the consumers, I can serve customers with very different information. So that's kind of what I mean by turning the business into a digital business. So that's an awesome story. By the way, how does RPA fit into that vision? RPA is everywhere in division. So I said when I started the journey, uh, any digital journey has some Muslim battles for me. There are four must win battles. I need to get certain things right in it, in the, and that was one, one of the Mustin battles was alteration. So we have to create efficiency, we have to optimize, we have to streamline. And we said automation first. Um, and we started with, I call it robotics and automation. >>And I agree with what you said, Christina. It's more than just robots. It's actually a strategic application. It could be a good old ERP. It's the RPA, it's AI, it's all the other technologies that are out there that they bring the two of them brings. So how do you create this end to end solution using all the trends, technologies to create optimization? Uh, our goal was how do we get back to our customer much faster. We had so many customer facing processes and they're going to be there forever. They are a very customer centric customer into company obviously. So how do I get back to my customer faster? How do I make my employees just happy? They were working on so many things would be until midnight over time during weekends. How do I take that away from them? So we called it lifting the weight of the shoulders and giving you a new capabilities. So again, augmentation and then giving them that space. So we had uh, three of my employees upskilled and reskilled themselves. They became a developers in the robotics space, a couple of fire functional, um, colleagues are now reskilling themselves because now they have the time to reskill. More importantly, they have the time to actually leverage their expertise and they are so much more motivated. The engagement, the employee engagement is increasing. So that's how we are positioning RPA. Pristina ICU >>nodding a lot, your head too. A lot of what Layla is saying. I'm wondering if you can talk to about any best practices that have emerged as you've implemented RPA at Generali to what you've learned. Yes, for sure. Um, we have a lot of processes automated, uh, all around the group. Uh, but we are not, we have not reached our maximum or, uh, benefits, uh, gaining. So what we need to do right now is to try to boost the smart process automation, uh, via analyzing the issue around value, Cena. So each business area of the value chain because currently we have countries that has, that have a different level of maturity. So, so some countries are at the very beginning and we have to help them with best practice sharings with a huge case, successful use cases. And we are, uh, we have a lot of help from parts into, in this because locally and who I Potter as a, a very strong presence and is very powerful in doing that. >>And, uh, now, uh, our next mouth are very focused on try to, um, uh, deep dive, the vertical, our area of the issue around value chain and identify which are the processes inside them are best to automated. Uh, uh, Basinger. Uh, these activities are not so you, I part, we'd, his experience has created a heat mapper, value chain Heath mapper. And so it's given up as some advice where to focus our strengths, our hand energy in automating. And I think that this is a very huge, uh, uh, support that you are UI parties given us. So it's not just a matter of, okay, let's start, uh, uh, do some, uh, process assessment in order to identify which processes are the best candidates to be automated. But, uh, we have, uh, how our back, uh, us. So we, we are, uh, we have the backing of UI pass saying it's better to do that and automate in depth, uh, processes of that, but Oh, the value chain. So we are starting a program to do that with all the countries or the vertical area of the country. So, and I think that this could really bring a, uh, high benefits and can, uh, uh, drive us to, uh, really having a scaling up in using a smart process, automation and UI. But you a bot ecosystem not only are, so >>one of the nice things about RPA is you can take the software robots and apply them to an existing process. A lot of times changing processes and a lot of times almost always changing processes is painful. However, we've talked to some customers that have said by applying RPA to our business, it's exposed some really bad processes. Have you experienced that and can you maybe share that experience with it? Absolutely. So for us, one of the initial, um, robots, we applied to a customer facing process. It was our field team trying to get back to our customer with a, with some information. And we realize that the, um, the cycle time was very long. And the reason is there are four functions involved in answering the question and seven different applications are being touched all the way from XL to ERP to CRM. So what we did obviously bringing a strategic solution to fix the cycle time and reduce that to streamline the process was going to take us long. So RPA was great help. We reduced the cycle time by putting a robot and we were able to get back to ours, priests, sales team in the field in matter of minutes. What used to take hours was now being responded to in minutes. Now that doesn't mean that process is perfect, but that's our next step. So we created value for our customer and our sales team within the field, um, before, you know, streamlining and going into a bigger initiatives. So then you could share Christina. >>Yes. Uh, so, um, it is necessary to automate something that could be automated. So, uh, it is necessarily to out optimize the process before automating it, but sometimes it's better to automate it as Caesar because, uh, also the not optimize the process can bring value if ultimated. So let me share an example. If you, for example, have to migrate some data obviously is a one shot, uh, uh, activity. But with the robot you can do it in a very short, well sharp timer. Maybe it's not the best, uh, process to be automated, but that could be useful as well. So it's always a matter of understanding the costs and the benefits. Uh, and sometimes, uh, FBA is very quickly, is very quick to be implemented and can be, can have a, also a lot of savings instead of integrating instead of doing more complex things. >>And then other things, uh, that it's important to take into account is that, uh, uh, after having a automating goal, all the low hanging fruits and so the processes with a low cost, uh, uh, low complexity and high benefits, uh, then it starts to facer when it's necessary to understand how to the end to end processes. Because, uh, it happens, uh, in, uh, some of our countries that, uh, the second phase is very difficult because, uh, the situation is that you have very, um, a lot of very fermented processes. And so before automating it is necessary to apply operational efficiency methodology, lean six Sigma, rare business process for engineering and then automate it. So it's a longer trip. And our Amer as group head office in general is to give these kinds of methodologies and best practices for all kinds of level of maturity in our countries. So finally, w what is the customer is the employee response then in terms of how you're talking a lot about streamlining, getting rid of these tedious tasks that took forever, how, how our employees reacting to the implementation. >>So we, um, we actually launched the, uh, announce announced RPA robotics and automation with a Hekaton in our company. And we invited 40 colleagues from various functions and two and everybody from the business was there and they participated actually in gathering ideas and prioritizing what matters most to the company. And we looked at customer, we looked at compliance, we look to the employee and we actually with during the hackathon you iPad team helped us to go live with one of the robots. They were mesmerized. They couldn't believe that this could happen. I think that's where we kind of engaged them and now going forward everyone who generate the idea was part of the building of the robots so they continue to be engaged to me allowed them to name the robots so they start naming and once the robots were alive yet literally had some of our teams who are dancing from happiness and I think that said it all. That was the strongest voice of our business partner and we published that video. So our business partners became our advocates and that's really our how we born the robotic and automation within CCI. We have so many advocates right now they are coming to us. Our business partners are coming to us with more use cases and they are actually, they are sharing with rest of the system within Coca-Cola and with the group that we are part of locally in Turkey, they are sharing their stories. So now we have a hype going on in the system. >>Yes. And in generally, um, at the beginning, uh, we face some fears in our employees fears of losing their job, but fear is not be able to use this kind of technology. Uh, but, uh, also with the help of HR because I, Charlie is, uh, driving a huge program of upskilling and reskilling of people. Uh, nowadays, uh, also hand user are very happy to use robotics, uh, because, uh, uh, when they realize that they can really help in their activities, in their very boring and not useful activities, they are very happy to enjoy this, this program. But it is so, uh, it, it was a trip, a journey with the employees to make them understand that it's not something that, uh, is affecting their job. So, at least in generally group, we are, we are programming, uh, these, uh, uh, or employees, uh, journey in order to make them, uh, uh, to have more, uh, uh, awareness about robotics and not be scared about it. Layla and Christina, thank you both so much for coming on the cube. It was wonderful. Thank you very much for you. I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Volante. Please stay tuned for more of the cubes live coverage of UI path forward.

>> Narrator: New York City, it's the Cube covering CyberConnect 2017 brought to you by Centrify and the Institute for Critical Infrastructure Technology. >> Welcome back, everyone. This is the Cube's live coverage in New York City's Grand Hyatt Ballroom for CyberConnect 2017 presented by Centrify. I'm John Furrier, the co-host of the Cube with my co-host this week is Dave Vellante, my partner and co-founder and co-CEO with me in SiliconAngle Media in the Cube. Our next guest is James Scott who is the co-founder and senior fellow at ICIT. Welcome to the Cube. >> Thanks for having me. >> You guys are putting on this event, really putting the content together. Centrify, just so everyone knows, is underwriting the event but this is not a Centrify event. You guys are the key content partner, developing the content agenda. It's been phenomenal. It's an inaugural event so it's the first of its kind bringing in industry, government, and practitioners all together, kind of up leveling from the normal and good events like Black Hat and other events like RSA which go into deep dives. Here it's a little bit different. Explain. >> Yeah, it is. We're growing. We're a newer think tank. We're less than five years old. The objective is to stay smaller. We have organizations, like Centrify, that came out of nowhere in D.C. so we deal, most of what we've done up until now has been purely federal and on the Hill so what I do, I work in the intelligence community. I specialize in social engineering and then I advise in the Senate for the most part, some in the House. We're able to take these organizations into the Pentagon or wherever and when we get a good read on them and when senators are like, "hey, can you bring them back in to brief us?" That's when we know we have a winner so we started really creating a relationship with Tom Kemp, who's the CEO and founder over there, and Greg Cranley, who heads the federal division. They're aggressively trying to be different as opposed to trying to be like everyone else, which makes it easy. If someone wants to do something, they have to be a fellow for us to do it, but if they want to do it, just like if they want to commission a paper, we just basically say, "okay, you can pay for it but we run it." Centrify has just been excellent. >> They get the community model. They get the relationship that you have with your constituents in the community. Trust matters, so you guys are happy to do this but more importantly, the content. You're held to a standard in your community. This is new, not to go in a different direction for a second but this is what the community marketing model is. Stay true to your audience and trust. You're relied upon so that's some balance that you guys have to do. >> The thing is we deal with cylance and others. Cylance, for example, was the first to introduce machine learning artificial intelligence to get passed that mutating hash for endpoint security. They fit in really well in the intelligence community. The great thing about working with Centrify is they let us take the lead and they're very flexible and we just make sure they come out on top each time. The content, it's very content driven. In D.C., we have at our cocktail receptions, they're CIA, NSA, DARPA, NASA. >> You guys are the poster child of be big, think small. >> Exactly. Intimate. >> You say Centrify is doing things differently. They're not falling in line like a lemming. What do you mean by that? What is everybody doing that these guys are doing differently? >> I think in the federal space, I think commercial too, but you have to be willing to take a big risk to be different so you have to be willing to pay a premium. If people work with us, they know they're going to pay a premium but we make sure they come out on top. What they do is, they'll tell us, Centrify will be like, "look, we're going to put x amount of dollars into a lunch. "Here are the types of pedigree individuals "that we need there." Maybe they're not executives. Maybe they're the actual practitioners at DHS or whatever. The one thing that they do different is they're aggressively trying to deviate from the prototype. That's what I mean. >> Like a vendor trying to sell stuff. >> Yeah and the thing is, that's why when someone goes to a Centrify event, I don't work for Centrify (mumbles). That's how they're able to attract. If you see, we have General Alexander. We've got major players here because of the content, because it's been different and then the other players want to be on the stage with other players, you know what I mean. It almost becomes a competition for "hey, I was asked to come to an ICIT thing" you know, that sort of thing. That's what I mean. >> It's reputation. You guys have a reputation and you stay true to that. That's what I was saying. To me, I think this is the future of how things get done. When you have a community model, you're held to a standard with your community. If you cross the line on that standard, you head fake your community, that's the algorithm that brings you a balance so you bring good stuff to the table and you vet everyone else on the other side so it's just more of a collaboration, if you will. >> The themes here, what you'll see is within critical infrastructure, we try to gear this a little more towards the financial sector. We brought, from Aetna, he set up the FS ISAC. Now he's with the health sector ISAC. For this particular geography in New York, we're trying to have it focus more around health sector and financial critical infrastructure. You'll see that. >> Alright, James, I've got to ask you. You're a senior fellow. You're on the front lines with a great Rolodex, great relationships in D.C., and you're adivising and leaned upon by people making policy, looking at the world and the general layout in which, the reality is shit's happening differently now so the world's got to change. Take us through a day in the life of some of the things you guys are seeing and what's the outlook? I mean, it's like a perfect storm of chaos, yet opportunity. >> It really depends. Each federal agency, we look at it from a Hill perspective, it comes down to really educating them. When I'm in advising in the House, I know I'm going to be working with a different policy pedigree than a Senate committee policy expert, you know what I mean. You have to gauge the conversation depending on how new the office is, House, Senate, are they minority side, and then what we try to do is bring the issues that the private sector is having while simultaneously hitting the issues that the federal agency space is. Usually, we'll have a needs list from the CSWEP at the different federal agencies for a particular topic like the Chinese APTs or the Russian APT. What we'll do is, we'll break down what the issue is. With Russia, for example, it's a combination of two types of exploits that are happening. You have the technical exploit, the malicious payload and vulnerability in a critical infrastructure network and then profiling those actors. We also have another problem, the influence operations, which is why we started the Center for Cyber Influence Operations Studies. We've been asked repeatedly since the elections last year by the intelligence community to tell us, explain this new propaganda. The interesting thing is the synergies between the two sides are exploiting and weaponizing the same vectors. While on the technical side, you're exploiting a vulnerability in a network with a technical exploit, with a payload, a compiled payload with a bunch of tools. On the influence operations side, they're weaponizing the same social media platforms that you would use to distribute a payload here but only the... >> Contest payload. Either way you have critical infrastructure. The payload being content, fake content or whatever content, has an underpinning that gamification call it virality, network effect and user psychology around they don't really open up the Facebook post, they just read the headline and picture. There's a dissonance campaign, or whatever they're running, that might not be critical to national security at that time but it's also a post. >> It shifts the conversation in a way where they can use, for example, right now all the rage with nation states is to use metadata, put it into big data analytics, come up with a psychographic algorithm, and go after critical infrastructure executives with elevated privileges. You can do anything with those guys. You can spearfish them. The Russian modus operandi is to call and act like a recruiter, have that first touch of contact be the phone call, which they're not expecting. "Hey, I got this job. "Keep it on the down low. Don't tell anybody. "I'm going to send you the job description. "Here's the PDF." Take it from there. >> How should we think about the different nation state actors? You mentioned Russia, China, there's Iran, North Korea. Lay it out for us. >> Each geography has a different vibe to their hacking. With Russia you have this stealth and sophistication and their hacking is just like their espionage. It's like playing chess. They're really good at making pawns feel like they're kings on the chessboard so they're really good at recruiting insider threats. Bill Evanina is the head of counterintel. He's a bulldog. I know him personally. He's exactly what we need in that position. The Chinese hacking style is more smash and grab, very unsophisticated. They'll use a payload over and over again so forensically, it's easy to... >> Dave: Signatures. >> Yeah, it is. >> More shearing on the tooling or whatever. >> They'll use code to the point of redundancy so it's like alright, the only reason they got in... Chinese get into a network, not because of sophistication, but because the network is not protected. Then you have the mercenary element which is where China really thrives. Chinese PLA will hack for the nation state during the day, but they'll moonlight at night to North Korea so North Korea, they have people who may consider themselves hackers but they're not code writers. They outsource. >> They're brokers, like general contractors. >> They're not sophisticated enough to carry out a real nation state attack. What they'll do is outsource to Chinese PLA members. Chinese PLA members will be like, "okay well, here's what I need for this job." Typically, what the Chinese will do, their loyalties are different than in the west, during the day they'll discover a vulnerability or an O day. They won't tell their boss right away. They'll capitalize off of it for a week. You do that, you go to jail over here. Russia, they'll kill you. China, somehow this is an accepted thing. They don't like it but it just happens. Then you have the eastern European nations and Russia still uses mercenary elements out of Moscow and St. Petersburg so what they'll do is they will freelance, as well. That's when you get the sophisticated, carbonic style hack where they'll go into the financial sector. They'll monitor the situation. Learn the ins and outs of everything having to do with that particular swift or bank or whatever. They go in and those are the guys that are making millions of dollars on a breach. Hacking in general is a grind. It's a lot of vulnerabilities work, but few work for long. Everybody is always thinking there's this omega code that they have. >> It's just brute force. You just pound it all day long. >> That's it and it's a grind. You might have something that you worked on for six months. You're ready to monetize. >> What about South America? What's the vibe down there? Anything happening in there? >> Not really. There is nothing of substance that really affects us here. Again, if an organization is completely unprotected. >> John: Russia? China? >> Russia and China. >> What about our allies? >> GCHQ. >> Israel? What's the collaboration, coordination, snooping? What's the dynamic like there? >> We deal, mostly, with NATO and Five Eyes. I actually had dinner with NATO last night. Five Eyes is important because we share signals intelligence and most of the communications will go through Five Eyes which is California, United States, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. Those are our five most important allies and then NATO after that, as far as I'm concerned, for cyber. You have the whole weaponization of space going on with SATCOM interception. We're dealing with that with NASA, DARPA. Not a lot is happening down in South America. The next big thing that we have to look at is the cyber caliphate. You have the Muslim brotherhood that funds it. Their influence operations domestically are extremely strong. They have a lot of contacts on the Hill which is a problem. You have ANTIFA. So there's two sides to this. You have the technical exploit but then the information warfare exploit. >> What about the bitcoin underbelly that started with the silk roads and you've seen a lot of bitcoin. Money laundering is a big deal, know your customer. Now regulation is part of big ICOs going on. Are you seeing any activity from those? Are they pulling from previous mercenary groups or are they arbitraging just more free? >> For updating bitcoin? >> The whole bitcoin networks. There's been an effort to commercialize (mumbles) so there's been a legitimate track to bring that on but yet there's still a lot of actors. >> I think bitcoin is important to keep and if you look at the more black ops type hacking or payment stuff, bitcoin is an important element just as tor is an important element, just as encryption is an important element. >> John: It's fundamental, actually. >> It's a necessity so when I hear people on the Hill, I have my researcher, I'm like, "any time you hear somebody trying to have "weakened encryption, back door encryption" the first thing, we add them to the briefing schedule and I'm like, "look, here's what you're proposing. "You're proposing that you outlaw math. "So what? Two plus two doesn't equal four. "What is it? Three and a half? "Where's the logic?" When you break it down for them like that, on the Hill in particular, they begin to get it. They're like, "well how do we get the intelligence community "or the FBI, for example, to get into this iphone?" Civil liberties, you've got to take that into consideration. >> I got to ask you a question. I interviewed a guy, I won't say his name. He actually commented off the record, but he said to me, "you won't believe how dumb some of these state actors are "when it comes to cyber. "There's some super smart ones. "Specifically Iran and the Middle East, "they're really not that bright." He used an example, I don't know if it's true or not, that stuxnet, I forget which one it was, there was a test and it got out of control and they couldn't pull it back and it revealed their hand but it could've been something worse. His point was they actually screwed up their entire operation because they're doing some QA on their thing. >> I can't talk about stuxnet but it's easy to get... >> In terms of how you test them, how do you QA your work? >> James: How do you review malware? (mumbles) >> You can't comment on the accuracy of Zero Days, the documentary? >> Next question. Here's what you find. Some of these nation state actors, they saw what happened with our elections so they're like, "we have a really crappy offensive cyber program "but maybe we can thrive in influence operations "in propaganda and whatever." We're getting hit by everybody and 2020 is going to be, I don't even want to imagine. >> John: You think it's going to be out of control? >> It's going to be. >> I've got to ask this question, this came up. You're bringing up a really good point I think a lot of people aren't talking about but we've brought up a few times. I want to keep on getting it out there. In the old days, state on state actors used to do things, espionage, and everyone knew who they were and it was very important not to bring their queen out, if you will, too early, or reveal their moves. Now with Wikileaks and public domain, a lot of these tools are being democratized so that they can covertly put stuff out in the open for enemies of our country to just attack us at will. Is that happening? I hear about it, meaning that I might be Russia or I might be someone else. I don't want to reveal my hand but hey, you ISIS guys out there, all you guys in the Middle East might want to use this great hack and put it out in the open. >> I think yeah. The new world order, I guess. The order of things, the power positions are completely flipped, B side, counter, whatever. It's completely not what the establishment was thinking it would be. What's happening is Facebook is no more relevant, I mean Facebook is more relevant than the UN. Wikileaks has more information pulsating out of it than a CIA analyst, whatever. >> John: There's a democratization of the information? >> The thing is we're no longer a world that's divided by geographic lines in the sand that were drawn by these two guys that fought and lost a war 50 years ago. We're now in a tribal chieftain digital society and we're separated by ideological variation and so you have tribe members here in the US who have fellow tribe members in Israel, Russia, whatever. Look at Anonymous. Anonymous, I think everyone understands that's the biggest law enforcement honeypot there is, but you look at the ideological variation and it's hashtags and it's keywords and it's forums. That's the Senate. That's congress. >> John: This is a new reality. >> This is reality. >> How do you explain that to senators? I was watching that on TV where they're trying to grasp what Facebook is and Twitter. (mumbles) Certainly Facebook knew what was going on. They're trying to play policy and they're new. They're newbies when it comes to policy. They don't have any experience on the Hill, now it's ramping up and they've had some help but tech has never been an actor on the stage of policy formulation. >> We have a real problem. We're looking at outside threats as our national security threats, which is incorrect. You have dragnet surveillance capitalists. Here's the biggest threats we have. The weaponization of Facebook, twitter, youtube, google, and search engines like comcast. They all have a censorship algorithm, which is how they monetize your traffic. It's censorship. You're signing your rights away and your free will when you use google. You're not getting the right answer, you're getting the answer that coincides with an algorithm that they're meant to monetize and capitalize on. It's complete censorship. What's happening is, we had something that just passed SJ res 34 which no resistance whatsoever, blew my mind. What that allows is for a new actor, the ISPs to curate metadata on their users and charge them their monthly fee as well. It's completely corrupt. These dragnet surveillance capitalists have become dragnet surveillance censorists. Is that a word? Censorists? I'll make it one. Now they've become dragnet surveillance propagandists. That's why 2020 is up for grabs. >> (mumbles) We come from the same school here on this one, but here's the question. The younger generation, I asked a gentleman in the hallway on his way out, I said, "where's the cyber west point? "We're the Navy SEALS in this new digital culture." He said, "oh yeah, some things." We're talking about the younger generation, the kids playing Call of Duty Destiny. These are the guys out there, young kids coming up that will probably end up having multiple disciplinary skills. Where are they going to come from? So the question is, are we going to have a counterculture? We're almost feeling like what the 60s were to the 50s. Vietnam. I kind of feel like maybe the security stuff doesn't get taken care of, a revolt is coming. You talk about dragnet censorship. You're talking about the lack of control and privacy. I don't mind giving Facebook my data to connect with my friends and see my thanksgiving photos or whatever but now I don't want fake news jammed down my throat. Anti-Trump and Anti-Hillary spew. I didn't buy into that. I don't want that anymore. >> I think millennials, I have a 19 year old son, my researchers, they're right out of grad school. >> John: What's the profile like? >> They have no trust whatsoever in the government and they laugh at legislation. They don't care any more about having their face on their Facebook page and all their most intimate details of last night's date and tomorrow's date with two different, whatever. They just don't... They loathe the traditional way of things. You got to talk to General Alexander today. We have a really good relationship with him, Hayden, Mike Rogers. There is a counterculture in the works but it's not going to happen overnight because we have a tech deficit here where we need foreign tech people just to make up for the deficit. >> Bill Mann and I were talking, I heard the general basically, this is my interpretation, "if we don't get our shit together, "this is going to be an f'd up situation." That's what I heard him basically say. You guys don't come together so what Bill talked about was two scenarios. If industry and government don't share and come together, they're going to have stuff mandated on them by the government. Do you agree? >> I do. >> What's going to happen? >> The argument for regulation on the Hill is they don't want to stifle innovation, which makes sense but then ISPs don't innovate at all. They're using 1980s technology, so why did you pass SJ res 34? >> John: For access? >> I don't know because nation states just look at that as, "oh wow another treasure trove of metadata "that we can weaponize. "Let's start psychographically charging alt-left "and alt-right, you know what I mean?" >> Hacks are inevitable. That seems to be the trend. >> You talked before, James, about threats. You mentioned weaponization of social. >> James: Social media. >> You mentioned another in terms of ISPs I think. >> James: Dragnet. >> What are the big threats? Weaponization of social. ISP metadata, obviously. >> Metadata, it really depends and that's the thing. That's what makes the advisory so difficult because you have to go between influence operations and the exploit because the vectors are used for different things in different variations. >> John: Integrated model. >> It really is and so with a question like that I'm like okay so my biggest concern is the propaganda, political warfare, the information warfare. >> People are underestimating the value of how big that is, aren't they? They're oversimplifying the impact of info campaigns. >> Yeah because your reality is based off of... It's like this, influence operations. Traditional media, everybody is all about the narrative and controlling the narrative. What Russia understands is to control the narrative, the most embryo state of the narrative is the meme. Control the meme, control the idea. If you control the idea, you control the belief system. Control the belief system, you control the narrative. Control the narrative, you control the population. No guns were fired, see what I'm saying? >> I was explaining to a friend on Facebook, I was getting into a rant on this. I used a very simple example. In the advertising world, they run millions of dollars of ad campaigns on car companies for post car purchase cognitive dissonance campaigns. Just to make you feel good about your purchase. In a way, that's what's going on and explains what's going on on Facebook. This constant reinforcement of these beliefs whether its for Trump or Hillary, all this stuff was happening. I saw it firsthand. That's just one small nuance but it's across a spectrum of memes. >> You have all these people, you have nation states, you have mercenaries, but the most potent force in this space, the most hyperevolving in influence operations, is the special interest group. The well-funded special interests. That's going to be a problem. 2020, I keep hitting that because I was doing an interview earlier. 2020 is going to be a tug of war for the psychological core of the population and it's free game. Dragnet surveillance capitalists will absolutely be dragnet surveillance propagandists. They will have the candidates that they're going to push. Now that can also work against them because mainstream media, twitter, Facebook were completely against trump, for example, and that worked in his advantage. >> We've seen this before. I'm a little bit older, but we are the same generation. Remember when they were going to open up sealex? Remember the last mile for connectivity? That battle was won before it was even fought. What you're saying, if I get this right, the war and tug of war going on now is a big game. If it's not played in one now, this jerry rigging, gerrymandering of stuff could happen so when people wake up and realize what's happened the game has already been won. >> Yeah, your universe as you know it, your belief systems, what you hold to be true and self evident. Again, the embryo. If you look back to the embryo introduction of that concept, whatever concept it is, to your mind it came from somewhere else. There are very few things that you believe that you came up with yourself. The digital space expedites that process and that's dangerous because now it's being weaponized. >> Back to the, who fixes this. Who's the watchdog on this? These ideas you're talking about, some of them, you're like, "man that guy has lost it, he's crazy." Actually, I don't think you're crazy at all. I think it's right on. Is there a media outlet watching it? Who's reporting on it? What even can grasp what you're saying? What's going on in D.C.? Can you share that perspective? >> Yeah, the people that get this are the intelligence community, okay? The problem is the way we advise is I will go in with one of the silos in the NSA and explain what's happening and how to do it. They'll turn around their computer and say, "show me how to do it. "How do you do a multi vector campaign "with this meme and make it viral in 30 minutes." You have to be able to show them how to do it. >> John: We can do that. Actually we can't. >> That sort of thing, you have to be able to show them because there's not enough practitioners, we call them operators. When you're going in here, you're teaching them. >> The thing is if they have the metadata to your treasure trove, this is how they do it. I'll explain here. If they have the metadata, they know where the touch points are. It's a network effect mole, just distributive mole. They can put content in certain subnetworks that they know have a reaction to the metadata so they have the knowledge going in. It's not like they're scanning the whole world. They're monitoring pockets like a drone, right? Once they get over the territory, then they do the acquired deeper targets and then go viral. That's basically how fake news works. >> See the problem is, you look at something like alt-right and ANTIFA. ANTIFA, just like Black Lives Matter, the initiatives may have started out with righteous intentions just like take a knee. These initiatives, first stage is if it causes chaos, chaos is the op for a nation state in the US. That's the op. Chaos. That's the beginning and the end of an op. What happens is they will say, "oh okay look, this is ticking off all these other people "so let's fan the flame of this take a knee thing "hurt the NFL." Who cares? I don't watch football anyway but you know, take a knee. It's causing all this chaos. >> John: It's called trolling. >> What will happen is Russia and China, China has got their 13 five year plan, Russia has their foreign influence operations. They will fan that flame to exhaustion. Now what happens to the ANTIFA guy when he's a self-radicalized wound collector with a mental disorder? Maybe he's bipolar. Now with ANTIFA, he's experienced a heightened more extreme variation of that particular ideology so who steps in next? Cyber caliphate and Muslim brotherhood. That's why we're going to have an epidemic. I can't believe, you know, ANTIFA is a domestic terrorist organization. It's shocking that the FBI is not taking this more serious. What's happening now is Muslim brotherhood funds basically the cyber caliphate. The whole point of cyber caliphate is to create awareness, instill the illusion of rampant xenophobia for recruiting. They have self-radicalized wound collectors with ANTIFA that are already extremists anyway. They're just looking for a reason to take that up a notch. That's when, cyber caliphate, they hook up with them with a hashtag. They respond and they create a relationship. >> John: They get the fly wheel going. >> They take them to a deep web forum, dark web forum, and start showing them how it works. You can do this. You can be part of something. This guy who was never even muslim now is going under the ISIS moniker and he acts. He drives people over in New York. >> They fossilized their belief system. >> The whole point to the cyber caliphate is to find actors that are already in the self-radicalization phase but what does it take psychologically and from a mentoring perspective, to get them to act? That's the cyber caliphate. >> This is the value of data and context in real time using the current events to use that data, refuel their operation. It's data driven terrorism. >> What's the prescription that you're advising? >> I'm not a regulations kind of guy, but any time you're curating metadata like we're just talking about right now. Any time you have organizations like google, like Facebook, that have become so big, they are like their own nation state. That's a dangerous thing. The metadata curation. >> John: The value of the data is very big. That's the point. >> It is because what's happening... >> John: There's always a vulnerability. >> There's always a vulnerability and it will be exploited and all that metadata, it's unscrubbed. I'm not worried about them selling metadata that's scrubbed. I'm worried about the nation state or the sophisticated actor that already has a remote access Trojan on the network and is exfiltrating in real time. That's the guy that I'm worried about because he can just say, "forget it, I'm going to target people that are at this phase." He knows how to write algorithms, comes up with a good psychographic algorithm, puts the data in there, and now he's like, "look I'm only going to promote this concept, "two people at this particular stage of self-radicalization "or sympathetic to the kremlin." We have a big problem on the college campuses with IP theft because of the Chinese Students Scholar Associations which are directly run by the Chinese communist party. >> I heard a rumor that Equifax's franchising strategy had partners on the VPN that were state sponsored. They weren't even hacking, they had full access. >> There's a reason that the Chinese are buying hotels. They bought the Waldorf Astoria. We do stuff with the UN and NATO, you can't even stay there anymore. I think it's still under construction but it's a no-no to stay there anymore. I mean western nations and allies because they'll have bugs in the rooms. The WiFi that you use... >> Has fake certificates. >> Or there's a vulnerability that's left in that network so the information for executives who have IP or PII or electronic health records, you know what I mean? You go to these places to stay overnight, as an executive, and you're compromised. >> Look what happened with Eugene Kaspersky. I don't know the real story. I don't know if you can comment, but someone sees that and says, "this guy used to have high level meetings "at the Pentagon weekly, monthly." Now he's persona non grata. >> He fell out of favor, I guess, right? It happens. >> James, great conversation. Thanks for coming on the Cube. Congratulations on the great work you guys are doing here at the event. I know the content has been well received. Certainly the key notes we saw were awesome. CSOs, view from the government, from industry, congratulations. James Scott who is the co founder and senior fellow of ICIT, Internet Critical Infrastructure Technology. >> James: Institute of Critical Infrastructure Technology. >> T is for tech. >> And the Center for Cyber Influence Operations Studies. >> Good stuff. A lot of stuff going on (mumbles), exploits, infrastructure, it's all mainstream. It's the crisis of our generation. There's a radical shift happening and the answers are all going to come from industry and government coming together. This is the Cube bringing the data, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Thanks for watching. More live coverage after this short break. (music)

>> live from the Mandalay Bay Convention Center in Las Vegas. It's the King covering via World 2016 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem sponsors. Now here's your host stew minimum. Welcome back to the Cube here at VM World 2016. Happy to welcome back to the PO program. Christos Caramel analysts. Who's the fellow in CTO of the V A more storage and availability business unit. Thank you for joining us again. >> About to be buck >> Storage is a big focus here. Big announcements around. Not only the sand, but everything happened in the storage room. Tell us what you've been working on the last year. >> Yeah, quite a few things. As you know, Miss Olsen has become practically mainstream product now, especially since we saved the very same 6.2 back in March 2016 with a number of new enterprise grade features for space efficiency. New availability. Fisher's with the razor calls right 56 The product is really taking off. Taking off, especially in old flask configurations, is becoming the predominant model that our customers are using. So ultimately, of course, customers buy a new product like this on and hyper converts product because of the operational efficiencies and brings to their data centers. The way I present this is you have the personal efficiency off public clouds into your private data center now. But this is for me is thus the stepping stone for even a longer term term, bolder vision will have around the stores, the data management. So, the last several months now, I have been working on a new range of projects. Main theme. There is moving up the stock from stores and the physical infrastructure implications. It has two data management on starting with data protection on overall and managing the life cycle of your data for protection, for disaster recovery, for archival, so that you can have tools to be able to effectively and efficiently discover your data. Mine your data. Use them by new applications, including cloud native applications and a dent even know that this may sound a little controversial coming from Vienna, where sitio even moving your data to public clouds and allow application mobility freely between private public clouds. >> Yeah, it's really interesting and wonder if you can packed out a little bit for us, Veum, where, of course, really dominant, the Enterprise Data Center. We're trying to understand where Veum, where fits into the public cloud on how you cut both support the existing ecosystem and move forward. So, you know, it's interesting off >> course. There are silences. There are many open questions. I do not claim that we have the answers to everything. Everything. But you do see that we put a lot of emphasis on that because it is obvious that the I T world is evolving. Our own customers are gradually slowly, but certainly there start incorporating public clouds into the bigger I T organizations that have. So our goal is to start delivering value to our customers based on clouds, starting with what they have today into the data centers. Let me give you a specific example in the case of Virtual San, who have some really cool tools for Mona's in your infrastructure in a holistic way, computer networking and now stores a SZ part of that you have ah solutions and tools that allow the customer to monitor constantly there covered infrastructure, the configuration of that. The class is the network servers controller's down to individual devices, and we provide a lot of data to the customers, not only for the health but also for the performance off the off the infrastructure data to the customer can today used to perform root cause analysis of potential issues to decide how to optimize there. Infrastructure in the world clothes. But that is actually pretty no sophisticated house. You cannot expect a lot 500 thousands 1000 customers. Of'em were to be ableto do this kind of sophisticate analysis. So what we're working on right now is a set off analytics tools that do all this data Kranz ink and analysis a root cause analysis on DDE evaluation of the infrastructure on because of the customer instead of providing data now we're providing answers and suggestions now way want to be able to deliver those analytics in a very rapid cadence. So what we do is we develop all those things in via Morse. Cloud will collect data from the customer side through telemetry, the emir's phone home product, and we get off the data up in our club. We crunch the data on because of the customer, and we use really sophisticated methods that will be evolving over time and eventually will be delivering feedback and suggestions at a kind level to the customer that can be actionable. For example, weekend point out that certain firm were the 1st 1 off certain controllers, and the infrastructure is falling behind. I may have problems or point out to a certain SS thes uh, a problem getting close to the end off life. For more sophisticated thing. Starts us reconfigure your application with a different policy for data distribution to achieve better performers. The interesting thing is that going to be, you're going to be combining data from must multiple sites, multiple customers to be able to do this holistic analytics and say, You know what? Based on trance, I see. Another customer says. It says You also do that. Now they're really coursing out of this is that the customer does not have to go and use yet another portal on a public cloud to take advantage of that. But they in fact, we send all that feedback through the this fear you. I own premise to the customers, so really cool. So you have the best of both wars. There are big development off analytics using actually behind the senses a really complex cloud native application with the existing tools that the customers are usedto in on premise. So this is just one example >> crystals. Could you give us a little bit of insight as the guiding light for your development process? Do you use that kind of core customers that you're pulling in and working in? Is it a mandate from above that says, you know, Hey, we need to build a more robust and move up the stack. You know, what are some of the pieces that lead to the development that you >> know? This is a very interesting point. I must start by stating that vehement has always bean admitting they're driven company. Um, and look for products were, you know, ideas that were, you know, Martin by engineers, while others thought that was not your not even visible, of course, Mutualization in several stages. But features like the Muslim or stores of emotion Oreo even, you know, ideas kind of ritual, son, right. Claiming that I could do very effectively rate six in software was something that was not really, you know, appreciated in the industrial area stages. So a lot of the innovation is a grassroots innovation. We have our engineers exposed directly to customers customer problems off course. They also understand what is happening in the industry. The trends, whether that is encounter as its case these days with a new generation off first or its cover that is emerging, or where that that is a trend. Samoan customers, for example, using public clouds in certain ways where that is for doing testing dead or archiving their data way. Observe those things and then through a grassroots. Therefore, all this get amalgamated into some concrete ideas. I'm not saying that all those ideas result into products, but we definitely have a very open mind in letting engineers experiment and prove sometimes common sense to be wrong. So this is the process thesis. How Virtual Son started were a couple of us went to our CEO back then for marriage and suggested we do this drastic thing that is called no softer stores on that you can run the soft store of stock in software on the same servers that we visualize, and we're under V. M. So this is really how the process has always been working and this is still the case and we're very proud of this culture. This is one way we're actually tracking opens enduring talent in the competent. >> Yeah, I was loved digging into some of the innovation processes. Had a good chat with Steve Harris, former CEO of GM, where if I remember right? One of the thing processes user called flings, whereas you can actually get visibility from the outside it to some of those kind of trials and things that are going on that aren't yet fully supported yet. >> Absolutely. And that is still the case. Probably the best known fling these days is the HTML five days they you I for your sex, which is used extensively, both internally in the humor where it actually started as a tool for that purpose, but now wild by the community. And that Flynn gave us a lot off insides and how to evolve our mainstream user interface for for this fear, proper notes, Astoria sex. So this is exactly this alternative process that leads us to test the water and feel much more confident when we make bigger and investments in in Ireland, >> right architecturally via Moore has been around for quite a while now. I had a good talk with such a Pagani Who? I m f s earlier today and we were talking about, you know, new applications and new architectures when vms foot fest was built. You know, nobody's thinking about containers. You know, they weren't thinking about applications like duper some of these more cloud native applications. How do you take into consideration where things were going? How did these fit into, you know, kind of traditional VM wear V sphere. You know what things need to change? How do you look at kind of the code basis? >> Right. So first of all of'em affairs, I must say it's probably the most mature and most widely adopted class. The file system in the industry for over 10 years now has been used to visualize enterprise grade store, its stores, alien networks, and it was going to have a role for many years to come. But on the other hand, we all are technologists, and we understand that the product is designed with certain assumptions and constraints, and the EM affairs was designed back in the meat to thousands toe address the requirements for ritual izing lungs, and you know the traditional volumes that you'd be consuming from a disgrace. Now the world is changing, right. We have a whole new generation off solid state devices for stores. Servers on softer on commodity servers with Commodity stores Devices is becoming as your own reports that have been indicating the predominant no mortal of delivering stores in there in the enterprise that the sender and off course in even public clouds with copper scale storage. So what? The requirements there? Some things are changing. You need the store. Its plot from that can really take out the violence of the very low latency is off those devices. I was at Intel Developer for form a couple of weeks ago, and their intel announced for first time performance numbers for the new generation off Envy Me devices obtained that include the three D Chris Point technology under the covers. Latents is at around 10 microseconds, right and Iost per second scruples that are in the several kinds of thousands, if not millions so completely young game changer. And that is not the only company that is coming up with this technology. So you need to invest now in new technologies that can take the can harness the capabilities of this new devices, lightweights protocols like Envy me. In fact, I see envy me as the protocol is not just a protocol to accident device, but I can see a future for that off. Replacing Scott Z into the software start soon, and this is committing specific days. But soon will be sipping a vision off this fear that comes with ritual and via me in the guest visual ization of envy Me. So you can see here where we're heading and envy me, becoming a predominant protocol for the transport and for brutalizing stores. >> Interesting. And we've got a long history of things that start on. The guests Usually then takes a lot of engineering work to get them down to the hyper visor themselves. So, you know, without having to give away too much, is that we see that kind of progression sometime in the future. For some of these new memory, architectures >> certainly certainly are the sex store stock, and this is the stuff that is used by Veum infest by ritual son. It has been designed again for another era off stores. Now we are regarding a lot of these things there, and I cannot disclose too much detail, obviously, but I can tell that it's going to be a very different software stock. Much leaner, much more optimized for local, very fast devices and ultimately envying me is going to be a key technology in this new store stock. >> All right, so just last follow up on that topic. I think about kind of a new memory architectures. What's going on? As of September 7th, Del will acquire TMC. There's the relationship between A. M, C and V M wear. So could we expect some of these new memory technologies impacting things to be something that you'll work even closer with a deli emcee? And >> that is definitely case irrespective off the deal between the emcee and Dell, which, as you said, it's going to be closing. It seems pretty soon. From what I read in the newspapers, >> Michael confirmed, it's finally official. Some of the pathetic ALS. >> Yes, we're moving ahead with this new technologists, and we're working closely with all the partners micro intel and many of the other car vendors that are introducing such technologies to incorporate them into our systems into our software, for example, I see great opportunities for this very fast Cayenne dude owns but still quite expensive technologies to be used, for example, to store meta data. Things like duplication. Costabile is those kind off meta data that have an impact through because of my own verification to the performance that is perceived by the application by moving meta data like that into those tears are going to make a great difference in terms of performance consistent, late and see predictability of the day for the application. Now, thanks to the relations with del Auntie em. See, I can hope that some of these technologies will find their way into several platforms sooner than later. So all of us and our customers would benefit from that. >> All right? What? Christos really appreciate getting the update from you. Lots happening on the storage world. We're kind of talking about. One of my things coming into this this'll week was, if we can really simplify storage, we might actually have a storage. This world doesn't mean it reduces the value of storage or the importance of it, but gonna help the users to be able to move beyond that, we'll be back with lots more coverage here from the emerald 2016. You're watching the Cube. Glad to be here. Whatever. Apply from the Mandalay Bay Convention Center in Las Vegas. It's the King covering via World 2016 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem sponsors. Now here's your host stew minimum. Welcome back to the Cube here at VM World 2016. Happy to welcome back to the PO program. Christos Caramel analysts. Who's the fellow in CTO of the V A more storage and availability business unit. Thank you for joining us again. >> Glad to be back.