(inspirational music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are in our Palo Alto studio. The conference season hasn't really kicked off yet into full swing so we can do a lot more kind of intimate stuff here in the studio, for a CUBE Conversation. And we're really excited to have a many time CUBE alum on, and a new guest, both from Western Digital. So Dave Tang, Senior Vice President at Western Digital. Great to see you again, Dave. >> Great to be here, Jeff. >> Absolutely and Martin Fink, he is the Chief Technology Officer at Western Digital, a longtime HP alum. I'm sure people recognized you from that and our great machine keynotes we were talking about it. So great to finally meet you, Martin. >> Thank you, nice to be here. >> Absolutely, so you guys are here talking about and we've got an ongoing program actually with Western Digital about Data Makes Possible, right. With all the things that are going on in tech at the end of the day, right, there's data, it's got to be stored somewhere and then of course there's processes and things going on. We've been exploring media and entertainment, sports, healthcare, autonomous vehicles, you know. All the places that this continues to reach out and it's such a fun project because you guys are a rising tide, lifts all boats, kind of company and really enjoy watching this whole ecosystem grow. So I really want to thank you for that. But now there's some new things that we want to talk about that you guys are doing to continue really in that same theme, and that's the support of this RISC-V. So first off, for people who have no idea, what is RISC-V? Let's jump into that and then kind of what is the announcement and why it's important. >> Sure, so RISC-V is an, you know, the tagline is, it's an open source instruction set architecture. So what does that mean, just so people can kind of understand. So today the world is dominated by two instruction set architectures. For the most part the, we'll call the desktop enterprise world is dominated by the Intel instruction set architecture and that's what's in most PCs, what people talk about as x86. And then the embedded and mobile space tends to be dominated by Arm, or by Arm Holdings. And so both of those are great architectures but they're also proprietary, they're owned by their respective companies. So RISC-V is essentially a third entrant, we'll say, into this world, but the distinction is that it's completely open source. So everything about the instruction set is available to all and anybody can implement it. We can all share the implementations. We can share the code that makes up that instruction set architecture, and very importantly for us and part of our motivation is the freedom to innovate. So we now have the ability to modify the instruction set or change the implementation of the instruction set, to optimize it for our devices and our storage and our drives, etc. >> So is this the first kind of open source play in microprocessor architecture? >> No, there's been other attempts at this. OpenSpark kind of comes to mind, and things like that, but the ability to get a community of individuals to kind of rally around this in a meaningful way has really been a challenge. And so I'd say that right now, RISC-V presents probably the best sort of clean slate, let's take some thing new to the market out there. >> So open source, obviously we've seen you know, take over the software world, first in the operating system which everybody is familiar with Linux but then we see it time and time again in different applications, Hadoop. I mean, there's just a proliferation of open source projects. The benefits are tremendous. Pretty easy to ascertain at a typical software case, how is that going to be applied do you think within the microprocessor world? >> So it's a little bit different. When we're talking about open source hardware or open source chips and microprocessors, you're dealing with a physical device. So even though you can open source all of the designs and the code associated with that device, you still have to fabricate it. You still have to create a physical design and you still have to call up a fab and say, will you make this for me at these particular volumes? And so that's the difference. So there are some differences between open source software where it's, you know, you create the bits and then you distribute those bits through the Internet and all is good. Whereas here, you still have a physical need to fabricate something. >> Now, how much more flexibility can you do then for the output when you can actually impact the architecture as opposed to just creating a custom chip design, on top of somebody else's architecture? >> Well, let me give you probably a really simple, concrete example that kind of people can internalize of some of our motivation behind this, because that might sort of help get people through this. If you think of a very typical surveillance application, you have a camera pointed into a room or a hallway. The reality is we're basically grabbing a ton of video frames but very few of them change, right? So the typical surveillance application is it never changes and you really want, only know when stuff changes. Well, today, in very simple terms, all of those frames get routed up to some big server somewhere and that server spends a lot of time trying to figure out, okay have I got a frame that changed? Have I got a frame that changed, and so on. And then eventually it'll find maybe two or three or five frames that have got something interesting. So in the world what we're trying to do is to say, okay well why don't we take that, find no changes, and push that right down to the device? So we basically store all those frames, why don't we go figure out all the frames that mean nothing, and only ship up to that big bad server the frames that have something interesting and something you want to go analyze and do some work on? So that's a very typical application that's quite meaningful because we can do all of that work at the device. We can eliminate shipping a whole bunch of data to where it's just going to get discarded anyways, and we can allow the end customer to really focus on the data that matters, and get some intelligence. >> And that's critical as we get more and more immersed in a data-centric world, where we have realtime applications like Martin described as well as large data-centric applications like of course, big data analytics, but also training for AI systems or machine learning. These workloads are going to become more and more diverse and they're going to need more specialized architectures and more specialized processing. So big data is getting bigger and faster and these realtime fast data applications are getting faster and bigger. So we need ways to contend with that, that really go beyond what's available with general purpose architectures. >> So that's a great point because if we take this example of video frames, now if I can build a processor that is customized to only do that, that's the only thing it does. It can be very low power, very efficient, and do that one thing very very well, and the cost adder, if you want to call it that, to the device where we put it, is a tiny fraction, but the cost savings of the overall solution is significant. So this ability to customize the instruction set to only do what you need it to do for that very special purpose, that's gold. >> So I just wanted to, Dave, we've talked about a lot of interesting innovations that you guys have come up with over the years, with the helium launch. Which I don't know, a couple, two, three years ago, you were just at the MAMR event, really energy assisted recording. So this is really kind of foundational within the storage and the media itself and how you guys do better and take advantage of evolving land space. This is a kind of a different play for Western Digital, this isn't a direct kind of improvement in the way that storage media and architecture works but this is really more of, I'm going to ask you. What is the Western Digital play here? Why is this an important space for you guys in your core storage business? >> Well we're really broadening our focus to really develop and innovate around technologies that really help the world extract more value from data as a whole, right. So it's way beyond storage these days, right. We're looking for better ways to capture, preserve, access, and transform the data. And unless you transform it, you can't really extract the value out of it so as we see all these new applications for data and the vast possibilities for data, we really want to pave the path and help the industry innovate to bring all those applications to reality. >> It's interesting too because one of the great topics always in computing is you know, you got compute and store, which has to go to which, right. And nobody wants to move a lot of data, that's hard and may or may not be easy to get compute. Especially these IoT applications, remote devices, tough conditions and power, which we mentioned a little bit before we went on air. So the the landscape for the for the need for compute and store in networking is radically changing than either the desktop or what we're seeing a consolidation in clouds. So what's interesting here, where does the scale come, right? At the end of the day, scale always wins. And that's where we've seen historically where the general-purpose microprocessor architectures is dominated but used to be a slew of specialty purpose architectures but now there's an opportunity to bring scale to this. So how does that scale game continue to evolve? >> So it's a great point that scale does matter and we've seen that repeatedly and so it's a significant part of the reason why we decided to go early with a significant commitment was to tell the world that we were bringing scale to the equation. And so what we communicated to the marketplace is we ship on the order of a billion processor cores a year, most people don't realize that all of our devices from USB sticks to hard drives, all have processors on them. And so we said, hey we're going to basically go all-in and go big and that translates into a billion cores that we ship every year and we're going to go on a program to essentially migrate all of those cores to RISC-V. It'll take a few years to get there but we'll migrate all of those cores and so we basically were signaling to the market, hey scale is now here. Scale is here, you can make the investments, you can go forward, you can make that commitment to RISC-V because essentially we've got your back. >> So just to make sure we get that clear. So you guys have announced that you're going to slowly migrate over time your micro processors that power your devices to the tune of approximately a billion with a B, cores per year to this new architecture. >> That is correct. >> And has that started? >> So the design has started. So we have started to design and develop our first two cores but the actual manifestation into devices probably in the early stage of 2020. >> Okay, okay. But that's a pretty significant commitment and again, the ideas you explicitly said it's a signal to the ecosystem, this is worth your investment because there is some scale here. >> Martin: That's right. >> Yeah, pretty exciting. And how do you think it's going to open up the ability for you to do new things with your devices that you before either couldn't do or we're too expensive with dollars or power. >> Martin: So we're going to step and iterate through this and one key point here is a lot of people tend to want to start in this processor world at the very high end, right. I'm going to go take on a Xeon processor or something like that. It's not what we're doing. We're basically saying, we're going to go at the small end, the tiny end where power matters. Power matters a lot in our devices and where can we achieve the optimum combination of power and performance. So even in our small devices like a USB stick or a client SSD or something like that, if we can reduce power consumption and even just maintain performance that's a huge win for our customers, you know. If you think about your laptop and if I reduce the power consumption of that SSD in there so that you have longer battery life and you can get you know through the day better, that's a huge win, right. And I don't impact performance in the process, that's a huge win. So what we do, what we're doing right now is we're developing the cores based on the RISC-V architecture and then what we're going to do is once we've got that sort of design, sort of complete is we want to take all of the typical client workloads and profile them on that. Then we want to find out, okay where are the hot spots? What are the two or three things that are really consuming all the power and how do we go optimize, by either creating two or three instructions or by optimizing the micro architecture for an existing instruction. And then iterate through that a few times so that we really get a big win, even at the very low end of the spectrum and then we just iterate through that with time. >> We're in a unique position I think in that the technologies that we develop span everything from the actual media where the bits are stored, whether it's solid-state flash or rotating magnetic disk and the recording heads. We take those technologies and build them all the way up into devices and platforms and full-fledged data center systems. And if we can optimize and tune all the way from that core media level all the way up through into the system level, we can deliver significantly higher value, we believe, to the marketplace. So this is the start of that, that enables us to customize command sets and optimize the flow of data so that we can we can allow users to access it when and where they need it. >> So I think there's another actually really cool point, which goes back to the open source nature of this and we try to be very clear about this. We're not going to develop our cores for all applications. We want the world to develop all sorts of different cores. And so for many applications somebody else might come in and say, hey we've got a really cool core. So one of the companies we've partnered with and invested in for example, is Esperanto. They've actually decided to go at the high end and do a machine learning accelerator. Hey, maybe we'll use that for some machine learning applications in our system level performance. So we don't have to do it all but we've got a common architecture across the portfolio and that speaks to that sort of open source nature of the RISC-V architecture is we want the world to get going. We want our competitors to get on board, we want partners, we want software providers, we want everybody on board. >> It's such a different ecosystem with open-source and the way the contributions are made and the way contributions are valued and the way that people can go find niches that are underserved. It's this really interesting kind of bifurcation of the market really, you don't really want to be in the big general-purpose middle anymore. That's not a great place to be, there's all kinds of specialty places where you can build the competence and with software and you know with, thank goodness for Moore's law decreasing prices of the power of the compute and now the cloud, which is basically always available. Really a exciting time to develop a myriad of different applications. >> Right and you talked before about scale in terms of points of implementation that will drive adoption and drive this to critical mass but there's another aspect of scale relative to the architecture within a single system that's also important that I think RISC-V helps to break down some barriers. Because with general purpose computer architectures, they assume a certain ratio of memory and storage and processing and bandwidth for interconnect and if you exceed those ratios, you have to add a whole new processor. Even though you don't need to need the processing capability, you need it for scale. So that's another great benefit of these new architectures is that the diversity of data needs where some are going to be large data sets, some are going to be small data sets that need need high bandwidth. You can customize and blend that recipe as you need to, you're not at the mercy of these fixed ratios. >> Yeah and I think you know it's so much of kind of what is cloud computing. And the atomic nature of it, that you can apply the ratios, the amount that you need as you need, you can change it on the fly, you can tone it up, tone it down. And I think the other interesting thing that you touched on is some of these new, which are now relatively special-purpose but are going to be general-purpose very soon in terms of machine learning and AI and applying those to different places and applying them closer to the problem. It's a very very interesting evolution of the landscape but what I want to do is kind of close on you Martin, especially because again kind of back to the machine. Not the machine specifically but you have been in the business of looking way down the road for a long time. So you came out, I'd looked at your LinkedIn, you retired for three months, congratulations. (laughs) Hope you got some my golf in but you came back to Western Digital so why did you come back? And as you look down the road a ways, what do you see that it excites you, that got you off that three-month little tour around the golf course and I'm sorry I had to tease about that. But what do you see? What are you excited about that you came back and got involved in an open source microprocessor project? >> So the the short answer was that, I saw the opportunity at Western Digital to be where data lives. So I had spent my entire career, will call it at the compute or the server side of things and the interesting thing is I had a very close relationship with SanDisk, which was acquired by Western Digital. And so I had, we'll call it an insider view, of what was possible there and so what triggered was essentially what we're talking about here was given that about half the world's data lands on Western Digital devices, taking that from a real position of strength in the marketplace and say, what could we go do to make data more intelligent and rather than start kind of at that server end and so that I saw that potential there and it was just incredible, so that's that's what made me want to join. >> Exciting times. Dave good get. (laughs) >> We're delighted to have Martin with us. >> All right, well we look forward to watch it evolve. We've got another another whole set of events we're going to do again together with Western Digital that we're excited about. Again, covering Data Makes Possible but you know kind of uplifting into the application space as a lot of the cool things that people are doing in innovation. So Martin, great to finally meet you and thanks for stopping by. >> Thanks for the time. >> David as always and I think we'll see in a month or so. >> Right, always a pleasure Jeff, thanks. >> All right Martin Fink, Dave Tang. I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching, we'll catch you next time. (inspirational music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose, California, it's The Cube. Covering Innovating to Fuel the Next Decade of Big Data. Brought to you by Western Digital. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with The Cube. We're at the Western Digital headquarters in San Jose, the Great Oaks Campus, a really historic place in the history of Silicon Valley and computing. It's The Innovating to Fuel the Next Generation of Big Data event with Western Digital. We're really excited to be joined by our next guest, Mike Cordano. He's the president and chief operating officer of Western Digital. Mike, great to see you. >> Great to see you as well. Happy you guys could be here. It's an exciting day. >> Absolutely. First off, I think the whole merger thing is about done, right? That's got to feel good. >> Yeah, it's done, but there's legs to it, right? So we've combined these companies now, three of them, three large ones, so obviously Western Digital and Hitachi Global Storage, now we've added SanDisk into one Western Digital, so we're all together. Obviously more to do, as you expect in a large scale integration. There will be a year or two of bringing all those business processes and systems together, but I got to say, the teams are coming together great, showing up in our financial performance and our product execution, so things are really coming together. >> Yeah, not an easy task by any stretch of the imagination. >> No, not easy, but certainly a compliment to our team. I mean, we've got great people. You know, like anything, if you can harness the capabilities of your team, there's a lot you can accomplish, and it really is a compliment to the team. >> Excellent. Well, congratulations on that, and talking a bit about this event here today, you've even used "Big Data" in the title of the event, so you guys are obviously in a really unique place, Western Digital. You make systems, big systems. You also make the media that feeds a lot of other people's systems, but as the big data grows, the demand for data grows, it's got to live somewhere, so you're sitting right at the edge where this stuff's got to sit. >> Yeah, that's right, and it's central to our strategy, right? So if you think about it, there's three fundamental technologies that we think are just inherent in all of the evolution of compute and IT architecture. Obviously, there is compute, there is storage or memory, and then there's sort of movement, or interconnect. We obviously live in the storage or memory node, and we have a very broad set of capabilities, all the way from rotating magnetic media, which was our heritage, now including non-volatile memory and flash, and that's just foundational to everything that is going to come, and as you said, we're not going to stop there. It's not just a devices or component company, we're going to continue to innovate above that into platforms and systems, and why that becomes important to us, is there's a lot of technology innovation we can do that enhances the offering that we can bring to market when we control the entire technology stat. >> Right. Now, we've had some other guests on and people can get more information on the nitty-gritty details of the announcement today, the main announcement. Basically, in a nutshell, enabling you to get a lot more capacity in hard drives. But, I thought in your opening remarks this morning, there were some more high-level things I wanted to dig into with you, and specifically, you made an analogy of the data economy, and compared it to the petroleum economy. I've never... A lot of times, they talk about big data, but no one really talks about it, that I've heard, in those terms, because when you think about the petroleum economy, it's so much more than fuel and cars, and the second-order impacts, and the third-order impacts on society are tremendous, and you're basically saying, "We're going to "do this all over again, but now it's based on data." >> Yeah, that's right, and I think it puts it into a form that people can understand, right? I think it's well-proven what happened around petroleum, so the discovery of petroleum, and then the derivative industries, whether it be automobiles, whether it be plastics, you pick it, the entire economy revolved around, and, to some degree, still revolves around petroleum. The same thing will occur around data. You're seeing it with investments, you hear now things like machine learning, or artificial intelligence, that is all ways to transform and mine data to create value. >> Right. >> And we're going to see industries change rapidly. Autonomous cars, that's going to be enabled by data, and capabilities here, so pick your domain. There's going to be innovation across a lot of fronts, across a lot of traditional vertical industries, that is all going to be about data and driven by data. >> It's interesting what Janet, Doctor Janet George talked about too a little bit is the types of data, and the nozzles of the data is also evolving very quickly from data at rest to data in motion, to real-time analytics, to, like you said, the machine learning and the AI, which is based on modeling prior data, but then ingesting new data, and adjusting those models so even the types and the rate and the speed of the data is under dramatic change right now. >> Yeah, that's right, and I think one of the things that we're helping enable is you kind of get to this concept of what do you need to do to do what you describe? There has to be an infrastructure there that actually enables it. So, when you think about the scale of data we're dealing with, that's one thing that we're innovating around, then the issue is, how do you allow multiple applications to simultaneously access and update and transform that? Those are all problems that need to be solved in the infrastructure to enable things like AI, right? And so, where we come into play, is creating that infrastructure layer that actually makes that possible. The other thing I talked about briefly in the Q and A was, think about the problem of a future where the data set is just too large to actually move it in a substantive way to the compute. We actually have to invert that model over time architecturally, and bring the compute to the data, right? Because it becomes too complicated and too expensive to move from the storage layer up to compute and back, right? That is a complex operation. That's why those three pillars of technology are so important. >> And you've talked, and we're seeing in the Cloud right, because this continuing kind of atomization, atomic, not automatic, but making these more atomic. A smaller unit that the Cloud has really popularized, so you need a lot, you need a little, really, by having smaller bits and bytes, it makes that that much more easy. But another concept that you delved into a little was fast data versus big data, and clearly flash has been the bright, shiny object for the last couple years, and you guys play in that market as well, but it is two very different ways to think of the data, and I thought the other statistic that was shared is you know, the amount of data coming off of the machines and people dwarfs the business data, which has been the driver of IT spend for the last several decades. >> Yeah, no, that's right, and sort of that... You think about that, and the best analogy is a broader definition of IOT, right? Where you've got all of these censors, whether it be camera censors, because that's just a censor, creating an image or a video, or if it's more industrialized too, you've got all these sources of data, and they're going to proliferate at an exponential rate, and our ability to aggregate that in some sort of an organized way, and then act upon it, again, let's use the autonomous car as the example. You've got all these censors that are in constant motion. You've got to be able to aggregate the data, and make decisions on it at the edge, so that's not something... You can't deal with latency up to the Cloud and back, if it's an automobile, and it needs to make an instantaneous decision, so you've got to create that capability locally, and so when you think about the evolution of all this, it's really the integration of the Cloud, which, as Janet talked about, is the ability to tap into this historical or legacy data to help inform a decision, but then there's things happening out at the edge that are real time, and you have to have the capability to ingest the content, make a decision on it very quickly, and then act on it. >> Right. There's a great example. We went to the autonomous... Just navigation for the autonomous vehicles. It's own subset that I think Goldman-Sachs said it a seven billion dollar industry in the not-too-distant future, and the great example is this combination of the big data and the live data is, when they actually are working on the road. So you've got maps that tell you, and are updated, kind of what the road looks like, but on Tuesday, they were shifting the lane, and that particular lane now has cones in it, so the combination of the two is such a powerful thing. >> That's right. >> I want to dive into another topic we talked about, which is really architecting for the future. Unlike oil, data doesn't get consumed and is no longer available, right? It's a reusable asset, and you talked about classic stove-topping of data within an application center world where now you want that data available for multiple applications, so very different architecture to be able to use it across many fronts, some of which you don't even know yet. >> That's right. I think that's a key point. One of the things, when we talk to CEOs, or CIOs I should say, what they're realizing, to the extent you can enable a cost-effective mechanism for me to store and keep everything, I don't know how I'll derive value from it some time in the future, because as applications evolve, we're finding new insights into what can help drive decisions or innovation, or, to take it to health care, some sort of innovation that cures disease. That's one of the things that everybody wants to do. I want to build aggregate everything. If I could do that cost effectively enough, I'll find a way to get value out of it over time, and that's something where, when we're thinking about big data and what we talked about today, that's central to that idea, and enabling it. >> Right, and digital transformation, right, the hot buzz word, but we hear, time and time again, such a big piece of that is giving the democratization. Democratization of the data, so more people have access to it, democratization of the tools to manipulate that data, not just Mahogany Row super smart people, and then to have a culture that lets people actually try, experiment, fail fast, and there's a lot of innovation that would be unlocked right within your four walls, that probably are not being tapped into. >> Well, that's right, and that's something that innovation, and an innovation culture is something that we're working hard at, right? So if you think about Western Digital, you might think of us as, you know, legacy Western Digital as sort of a fast following, very operational-centric company. We're still good at those things, but over the last five years, we've really pushed this notion of innovation, and really sort of pressing in to becoming more influential in those feature architectures. That drives a culture that, if we think about the technical community, if we create the right sort of mix of opportunity, appetite for some risk, that allows the best creativity to come out of our technical... Innovating along these lines. >> Right, I'll give you the last word. I can't believe we're going to turn the calendar here on 2017, which is a little scary. As you look forward to 2018, what are some of your top priorities? What are you going to be working on as we come into the new calendar year? >> Yeah, so as we look into 2018 and beyond, we really want to drive this continued architectural shift. You'll see us be very active, and I think you talked about it, you'll see us getting increasingly active in this democratization. So we're going to have to figure out how we engage the broader open-source development world, whether it be hardware or software. We agree with that mantra, we will support that. Obviously we can do unique development, but with some hooks and keys that we can drive a broader ecosystem movement, so that's something that's central to us, and one last word would be, one of the things that Martin Fink has talked about which is really part of our plans as we go onto the new year, is really this inverting the model, where we want to continue to drive an architecture that brings compute to the storage and enables some things that just can't be done today. >> All right, well Mike Cordano, thanks for taking a few minutes, and congratulations on the terrific event. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> He's Mike Cordano, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching The Cube, we're at Western Digital headquarters in San Jose, Great Oaks Campus, it's historic. Check it out. Thanks for watching.

hey welcome back everybody Jeff Rick here with the cube we're at the mill pedis at an interesting event is called the auto tech council innovation in motion mapping and navigation event so a lot of talk about autonomous vehicles so it's a lot of elements to autonomous vehicles this is just one small piece of it it's about mapping and navigation and we're excited to have with us our first guest again and give us a background of this whole situation just Derick Curtin and he's the founder and chairman of the auto tech council so first up there welcome thank you very much good to be here absolutely so for the folks that aren't familiar what is the auto tech council autofit council is a sort of a club based in Silicon Valley where we have gathered together some of the industry's largest OMS om is mean car makers you know of like Rio de Gono from France and a variety of other ones they have offices here in Silicon Valley right and their job is to find innovation you find that Silicon Valley spark and take it back and get it into cars eventually and so what we are able to do is gather them up put them in a club and route a whole bunch of Silicon Valley startups and startups from other places to in front of them in a sort of parade and say these are some of the interesting technologies of the month so did they reach out for you did you see an opportunity because obviously they've all got the the Innovation Centers here we were at the Ford launch of their innovation center you see that the tagline is all around is there too now Palo Alto and up and down the peninsula so you know they're all here so was this something that they really needed an assist with that something opportunity saw or was it did it come from more the technology side to say we needed I have a new one to go talk to Raja Ford's well it's certainly true that they came on their own so they spotted Silicon Valley said this is now relevant to us where historically we were able to do our own R&D build our stuff in Detroit or in Japan or whatever the cases all of a sudden these Silicon Valley technologies are increasingly relevant to us and in fact disruptive to us we better get our finger on that pulse and they came here of their own at the time we were already running something called the telecom Council Silicon Valley where we're doing a similar thing for phone companies here so we had a structure in place that we needed to translate that into beyond modem industry and meet all those guys and say listen we can help you we're going to be a great tool in your toolkit to work the valley ok and then specifically what types of activities do you do with them to execute division you know it's interesting when we launched this about five years ago we're thinking well we have telecommunication back when we don't have the automotive skills but we have the organizational skills what turned out to be the cases they're not coming here the car bakers and the tier 1 vendors that sell to them they're not coming here to study break pad material science and things like that they're coming to Silicon Valley to find the same stuff the phone company two years ago it's lookin at least of you know how does Facebook work in a car out of all these sensors that we have in phones relate to automotive industry accelerometers are now much cheaper because of reaching economies of scale and phones so how do we use those more effectively hey GPS is you know reach scale economies how do we put more GPS in cars how do we provide mapping solutions all these things you'll set you'll see and sound very familiar right from that smartphone industry in fact the thing that disrupts them the thing that they're here for that brought them here and out of out of defensive need to be here is the fact that the smartphone itself was that disruptive factor inside the car right right so you have events like today so gives little story what's it today a today's event is called the mapping and navigation event what are people who are not here what's what's happening well so every now and then we pick a theme that's really relevant or interesting so today is mapping and navigation actually specifically today is high definition mapping and sensors and so there's been a battle in the automotive industry for the autonomous driving space hey what will control an autonomous car will it be using a map that's stored in memory onboard the car it knows what the world looked like when they mapped it six months ago say and it follows along a pre-programmed route inside of that world a 3d model world or is it a car more likely with the Tesla's current they're doing where it has a range of sensors on it and the sensors don't know anything about the world around the corner they only know what they're sensing right around them and they drive within that environment so there's two competing ways of modeling a 3d world around autonomous car and I think you know there was a battle looking backwards which one is going to win and I think the industry has come to terms with the fact the answer is both more everyday and so today we're talking about both and how to infuse those two and make better self-driving vehicles so for the outsider looking in right I'm sure they get wait the mapping wars are over you know Google Maps what else is there right but then I see we've got TomTom and meet a bunch of names that we've seen you know kind of pre pre Google Maps and you know shame on me I said the same thing when Google came out with a cert I'm like certain doors are over who's good with so so do well so Eddie's interesting there's a lot of different angles to this beyond just the Google map that you get on your phone well anything MapQuest what do you hear you moved on from MapQuest you print it out you're good together right well that's my little friends okay yeah some people written about some we're burning through paper listen the the upshot is that you've MapQuest is an interesting starting board probably first it's these maps folding maps we have in our car there's a best thing we have then we move to MapQuest era and $5,000 Sat Navs in some cars and then you might jump forward to where Google had kind of dominate they offered it for free kicked you know that was the disruptive factor one of the things where people use their smartphones in the car instead of paying $5,000 like car sat-nav and that was a long-running error that we have in very recent memory but the fact of the matter is when you talk about self-driving cars or autonomous vehicles now you need a much higher level of detail than TURN RIGHT in 400 feet right that's that's great for a human who's driving the car but for a computer driving the car you need to know turn right in 400.000 five feet and adjust one quarter inch to the left please so the level of detail requires much higher and so companies like TomTom like a variety of them that are making more high-level Maps Nokia's form a company called here is doing a good job and now a class of car makers lots of startups and there's crowdsource mapping out there as well and the idea is how do we get incredibly granular high detail maps that we can push into a car so that it has that reference of a 3d world that is extremely accurate and then the next problem is oh how do we keep those things up to date because when we Matt when when a car from this a Nokia here here's the company house drives down the street does a very high-level resolution map with all the equipment you see on some of these cars except for there was a construction zone when they mapped it and the construction zone is now gone right update these things so these are very important questions if you want to have to get the answers correct and in the car stored well for that credit self drive and once again we get back to something to mention just two minutes ago the answer is sensor fusion it's a map as a mix of high-level maps you've got in the car and what the sensors are telling you in real time so the sensors are now being used for what's going on right now and the maps are give me a high level of detail from six months ago and when this road was driven it's interesting back of the day right when we had to have the CD for your own board mapping Houston we had to keep that thing updated and you could actually get to the edge of the sea didn't work we were in the islands are they covering here too which feeds into this is kind of of the optical sensors because there's kind of the light our school of thought and then there's the the biopic cameras tripod and again the answers probably both yeah well good that's a you know that's there's all these beat little battles shaping up in the industry and that's one of them for sure which is lidar versus everything else lidar is the gold standard for building I keep saying a 3d model and that's basically you know a computer sees the world differently than your eye your eye look out a window we build a 3d model of what we're looking at how does computer do it so there's a variety of ways you can do it one is using lidar sensors which spin around biggest company in this space is called Bella died and been doing it for years for defense and aviation it's been around pointing laser lasers and waiting for the signal to come back so you basically use a reflected signal back and the time difference it takes to be billows back it builds a 3d model of the objects around that particular sensor that is the gold standard for precision the problem is it's also bloody expensive so the karmak is said that's really nice but I can't put for $8,000 sensors on each corner of a car and get it to market at some price that a consumers willing to pay so until every car has one and then you get the mobile phone aside yeah but economies of scale at eight thousand dollars we're looking at going that's a little stuff so there's a lot of startups now saying this we've got a new version of lighter that's solid-state it's not a spinning thing point it's actually a silicon chip with our MEMS and stuff on it they're doing this without the moving parts and we can drop the price down to two hundred dollars maybe a hundred dollars in the future and scale that starts being interesting that's four hundred dollars if you put it off all four corners of the car but there's also also other people saying listen cameras are cheap and readily available so you look at a company like Nvidia that has very fast GPUs saying listen our GPUs are able to suck in data from up to 12 cameras at a time and with those different stereoscopic views with different angle views we can build a 3d model from cheap cameras so there's competing ideas on how you build a model of the world and then those come to like Bosh saying well we're strong in car and written radar and we can actually refine our radar more and more and get 3d models from radar it's not the good resolution that lidar has which is a laser sense right so there's all these different sensors and I think there the answer is not all of them because cost comes into play below so a car maker has to choose well we're going to use cameras and radar we're gonna use lidar and high heaven so they're going to pick from all these different things that are used to build a high-definition 3d model of the world around the car cost effective and successful and robust can handle a few of the sensors being covered by snow hopefully and still provide a good idea of the world around them and safety and so they're going to fuse these together and then let their their autonomous driving intelligence right on top of that 3d model and drive the car right so it's interesting you brought Nvidia in what's really fun I think about the autonomous vehicle until driving cars and the advances is it really plays off the kind of Moore's laws impact on the three tillers of its compute right massive compute power to take the data from these sensors massive amounts of data whether it's in the pre-programmed map whether you're pulling it off the sensors you're pulling off a GPS lord knows where by for Wi-Fi waypoints I'm sure they're pulling all kinds of stuff and then of course you know storage you got to put that stuff the networking you gotta worry about latency is it on the edge is it not on the edge so this is really an interesting combination of technologies all bring to bear on how successful your car navigates that exit ramp you're spot-on and that's you're absolutely right and that's one of the reasons I'm really bullish on self-driving cars a lot more than in the general industry analyst is and you mentioned Moore's law and in videos taking advantage of that with a GPUs so let's wrap other than you should be into kind of big answer Big Data and more and more data yes that's a huge factor in cars not only are cars going to take advantage of more and more data high definition maps are way more data than the MapQuest Maps we printed out so that's a massive amount of data the car needs to use but then in the flipside the cars producing massive amounts of data I just talked about a whole range of sensors I talked lidar radar cameras etc that's producing data and then there's all the telemetric data how's the car running how's the engine performing all those things car makers want that data so there's massive amounts of data needing to flow both ways now you can do that at night over Wi-Fi cheaply you can do it over an LTE and we're looking at 5g regular standards being able to enable more transfer of data between the cars and the cloud so that's pretty important cloud data and then cloud analytics on top of that ok now that we've got all this data from the car what do we do with it we know for example that Tesla uses that data sucked out of cars to do their fleet driving their fleet learning so instead of teaching the cars how to drive I'm a programmer saying if you see this that they're they're taking the information out of the cars and saying what are the situation these cars are seen how did our autonomous circuitry suggest the car responds and how did the user override or control the car in that point and then they can compare human driving with their algorithms and tweak their algorithms based on all that fleet to driving so it's a master advantage in sucking data out of cars massive advantage of pushing data to cars and you know we're here at Kingston SanDisk right now today so storage is interesting as well storage in the car increasingly important through these big amount of data right and fast storage as well High Definition maps are beefy beefy maps so what do you do do you have that in the cloud and constantly stream it down to the car what if you drive through a tunnel or you go out of cellular signal so it makes sense to have that map data at least for the region you're in stored locally on the car in easily retrievable flash memory that's dropping in price as well alright so loop in the last thing about that was a loaded question by the way and I love it and this is the thing I love this is why I'm bullish and more crazier than anybody else about the self-driving car space you mentioned Moore's law I find Moore's law exciting used to not be relevant to the automotive industry they used to build except we talked about I talked briefly about brake pad technology material science like what kind of asbestos do we use and how do we I would dissipate the heat more quickly that's science physics important Rd does not take advantage of Moore's law so cars been moving along with laws of thermodynamics getting more miles per gallon great stuff out of Detroit out of Tokyo out of Europe out of Munich but Moore's law not entirely relevant all of a sudden since very recently Moore's law starting to apply to cars so they've always had ECU computers but they're getting more compute put in the car Tesla has the Nvidia processors built into the car many cars having stronger central compute systems put in okay so all of a sudden now Moore's law is making cars more able to do things that they we need them to do we're talking about autonomous vehicles couldn't happen without a huge central processing inside of cars so Moore's law applying now what it did before so cars will move quicker than we thought next important point is that there's other there's other expansion laws in technology if people look up these are the cool things kryder's law so kryder's law is a law about storage in the rapidly expanding performance of storage so for $8.00 and how many megabytes or gigabytes of storage you get well guess what turns out that's also exponential and your question talked about isn't dat important sure it is that's why we could put so much into the cloud and so much locally into the car huge kryder's law next one is Metcalfe's law Metcalfe's law has a lot of networking in it states basically in this roughest form the value of network is valued to the square of the number of nodes in the network so if I connect my car great that's that's awesome but who does it talk to nobody you connect your car now we can have two cars you can talk together and provide some amount of element of car to car communications and some some safety elements tell me the network is now connected I have a smart city all of a sudden the value keeps shooting up and up and up so all of these things are exponential factors and there all of a sudden at play in the automotive industry so anybody who looks back in the past and says well you know the pace of innovation here has been pretty steep it's been like this I expect in the future we'll carry on and in ten years we'll have self-driving cars you can't look back at the slope of the curve right and think that's a slope going forward especially with these exponential laws at play so the slope ahead is distinctly steeper in this deeper and you left out my favorite law which is a Mars law which is you know we underestimate in the short term or overestimate in the short term and underestimate in the long term that's all about it's all about the slope so there we could go on for probably like an hour and I know I could but you got a kill you got to go into your event so thanks for taking min out of your busy day really enjoyed the conversation and look forward to our next one my pleasure thanks all right Jeff Rick here with the Q we're at the Western Digital headquarters in Milpitas at the Auto Tech Council innovation in motion mapping and navigation event thanks for watching

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE covering NAB 2017. Brought to you by HGST. (techno music) >> Hey welcome back everybody. I'm Jeff Frick and you're watching theCUBE. We're at NAB 2017. A hundred thousand people, Las Vegas Convention Center. The place is packed from top to bottom, 3 halls, 2 floors. Hopefully you can find theCUBE if you're looking to find us. It's hard to find it. A lot of people here. We're excited to be joined by I think the best title of anyone that we've had on the show over the last couple days. It's all about content, but at the end of the day you got to find content creators. And we've got one here. Lucas Gilman lists as adventure photographer, filmmaker, and G-Technology, GTeam ambassador. Lucas, great to see you, thanks for stopping by. >> Thanks for having me. >> So tell us a little bit about your company. I know you're an independent photographer, videographer. Some of the work that you do, some of the stuff that keeps you busy from Monday 9 to 5. >> Exactly. So a small film production company. We also do stills. So it's sort of a one-stop shop for a lot of brands that I work with. We're basically trying to service everything from still images for advertising purposes and commercial purposes to video for commercials, advertisements, and/or stock use. >> So as you look around, the ways that you can now capture imagery, I'll just say as a more generic term, with 360 cameras and drones and regular photography and GoPros and all of this different stuff. I mean, what a palate of tools that you have to work with. >> It's amazing how the technology is really changed. I remember that when I first started out in the photography and digital photography, we would have 16 megabyte cards and now I'm using SanDisk cards that are 256 gigabytes. And the -- >> The 1 T's are coming, I keep seeing >> Lucas: Yeah, yeah exactly. - the 1 terabytes are coming. >> We're excited to get some of those. (laughing) But yeah, it's crazy that sensor technology keeps getting better, more pixels, more data. Which really throws sort of another monkey wrench into your solution because the cameras are getting higher capacity every year. We just shot a project in Iceland with a RED 8K Helium camera. That's a 36 megapixel still camera essentially, but shooting 24 frames or 30 frames per second of data. So we're talking, we shot 24 terabytes in a week. (laughing) >> 24 terabytes in a week. >> Lucas: In a week. >> Yeah so definitely adds a whole other layer of complexity now. Because now you can shoot so much, you can shoot at such higher res. Now you got to capture that stuff, you got to store it, you got to manage it. >> Lucas: And back it up. >> And back it up. >> And because, it's digital right? It's ones and zeros and once those are gone, they're gone forever. So my typical strategy is to have everything in three places. It's kind of the rule. Two, usually in the office. We have a primary copy and then a copy that doesn't ever go anywhere. And then we also have one off-site, so in the unexpected event of a fire, flood, tornado, or getting robbed or something like that, you still have those assets at home. >> Right, right. So I assume that's how you got involved with G-Technology to begin with. >> Yeah, it really started with when I was younger I had an unfortunate incident where brand X had a failure and I went out and found these G-DRIVE minis, which are amazing. I buy three of them per trip. And I reached out to them and sort of told them the story and they had this team that they were putting together and I was fortunate enough to be asked to be a part of that team. >> Okay so what's the mission of the team. What is a GTeam ambassador? >> The GTeam ambassadors are basically, they pick people in different disciplines whether you're a wedding photographer, or a filmmaker, and they basically pick people that are hopefully the best at what they do. Because as a photographer and a filmmaker, I'm out in the public a lot and people ask me, "What kind of camera should I buy? What kind of hard drive should I buy?" So our mission is to go out and educate people on not only the products we that use in our workflow that we rely on for our livelihood, but to really educate people and say, "Hey, you know I know you may never be shooting the Tour de France or going to Iceland and shooting expedition but this is how you could back up your images from your wedding or your kid's soccer game or something like that." >> Jeff: Right, right. >> So sort of an educational role as well as hopefully a little bit of inspiration as well. >> Right. And when it comes down to it, you mention that you used another product that failed you. That's like the old days and you forget to save your Word document, right? It only happens once. >> Lucas: Exactly. It happens once. (laughing) >> It's a very painful experience. >> Right, right. So I mean, is it just reliability? Is there something else in these G-DRIVEs that you like? Obviously reliability is A number one but is there more to it than that? >> Totally. So I was really drawn to the G-Technology because they're really the only ones, or were the only ones, that were putting enterprise class hard drives into enclosures. And people say, well what's the difference? And to me, you're getting a professional product. It's something that's going to last longer. It's meant to be put in an enclosure, in a RAID array. Because like I said, everything needs to be backed up and once it's gone, it's gone. And face it, there's a lot of people that want to be photographers these days. And filmmakers. And I can't go to a client and say "Oh it didn't work out." You know? (laughing) There's no take two. No second chance, you know so. So I really, it is the backbone of my business. Whether you're a restaurant or a photographer, you are providing a product or a service, and if it doesn't work out for somebody, they're not going to come back. >> Right. And it is so easy to go to the alternative. Now what about about Cloud? Is Cloud part of your workflow? >> It is. I'm getting more and more into it. I'm using different resources. But I don't rely on the Cloud as my primary backup. It's a way that's convenient for me to get images to clients or video clips or finished products because then I'm not shipping a drive across the country via FedEx or whatever. So it's another tool in the arsenal. I don't rely on it exclusively, but I feel like it is an important and powerful tool to be able to distribute assets and at the end of the day, make it more convenient for everybody involved. >> So what did you say, 24 terabytes in Iceland. >> 24 terabytes. >> What was the coolest part of that trip? >> Ice caves. >> Ice caves. >> We went into these caves that literally have streams coming out them that the ice they were saying is like 10,000 years old. And you're like the first person to touch this ice. It's really, really crazy. >> And how many people on that shoot? >> We had 6 people. So we had a professional athlete, a surfer. I typically shoot adventure sports and travel. So we brought a professional surfer, we had a MOBI operator, a camera operator, and a grip, - [Jeff] Right. >> an assistant to help out. >> I'm just curious your point of view, right. Even in commercials and advertisements and stuff, still a story narrative, right? It's got to be part of the equation. It's what pulls everything together. >> Story is king, and the second part of that is the quality of the production has to be there. Whether it's the video quality, the content, and/or the sound, all those things are integral keys to being successful. >> So do you find... I just, you know, there's so many toys here. It's like toy heaven for production people. Is it easy to get distracted from the storytelling because of all the toys? How do you begin to integrate and experiment with drones, whether it's your footage, or some of these other tools, and yet kind of stay true to a beautiful narrative that someone's going to be interested in consuming. >> Well it goes back to that thing we were all taught. KISS, right? Keep it simple, stupid. We use drones. We shoot in the water. We use all these tools. But the minute that that tool becomes so heavy that it takes away from being able to tell that story, that's when we've got to be careful because you can get sucked into trying to do a steadicam shot or a MOBI shot all day and all of a sudden you've wasted a whole day if something's not working. So you got to be consistent about what the vision is and your storyboard is because, yeah. Walking around the halls here there's a helicopter you can ride in now all of a sudden. It's like a mini drone. And, I do feel like a kid in a candy store. But you need to make sure that you're not getting so focused on the technology that you're not focusing on that storyline. Because that's really what clients will come back for. It's because as a creative, anybody can go out and automate things and make drone shots and this and that, but it's that story that really ties it all together. >> Right. And I think it's just really interesting how your photography background, more freely into multimedia, right? Which includes video and all the permutations that there are. I saw a cool thing where I guess you can unwrap the 360s so now you get this new kind of artistic, kind of ball impression. So the options are so huge for you right now. >> Yeah, it's really, the sky's the limit. As a professional, I need to make sure that I'm staying up with technology because really the technology is so accessible now from people taking images with their cameras and/or videos. I need to make sure that I'm setting myself apart from that demographic by doing something as a professional that is something that they can't offer. >> Right alright, I'll let you get a plug in so we can go in and see the Iceland footage. Where should people go to take a look at some of your work? >> So they should go to gtechnology.com. There'll be that Iceland. And they'll also be some workflow involved in that video so the people might actually learn something about what they might do to back up their images and/or videos. >> Alright Lucas, well hopefully maybe you got an extra room for a gofer or something on your next trip. And I can come help schlep pumpkins for you. Alright. Lucas Gilman, thanks for stopping by. >> Thanks for having me. >> He's Lucas Gilman and I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE. We're talking about G-Tech and really cool movie making, media making. It's all about media and technology here at the NAB 2017. Thanks for watching. (techno music)