>>Hold on. Welcome to this special cube conversation. I'm John ferry, host of the queue here in Palo Alto, California. Got a great deep dive conversation with multicloud, who we were featuring on our AWS showcase of cloud startups. Uh, Venkat Krista who's the CEO. And co-founder great to see you again and Candace Hendrix delivery architect at green pages, a partner customer. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on as always cube conversations are fun to get the deep dive. Good to see you. >>Oh, great to have, uh, have this opportunity, John. Thank you so much. Uh, Candace, thank you for joining us. It's been a pleasure work in pages, John, we're looking forward to this conversation today. >>Yeah. One of the things I'm really excited about that came out of our coupon cloud startups showcase was you guys talking about day two operations, which has been kicked around, but you guys drilled into it and put some quantification around the value proposition, but this is every company has a day to problem an opportunity and then usually our problems and most people see, but they're really opportunities to create this value proposition around something that's now going to be an operational, um, standard table-stakes. So let's get into it, take us through, uh, what you guys have with day two offers that, do a deep dive on this. Take, take it away. >>Thanks, John. Uh, John, we'll do a little bit of an involved conversation today. We'll switch between a little bit of a slide and, um, we are actually happy to show a quick demo as well. So our customers can, uh, what they see is what they get kind of demo. Um, so, uh, to give a quick background on context a day, two operations in the cloud are important for customers who are trying to get, uh, self-service provisioning, going standardization going, uh, have a way to help their developers move fast on the innovation. What we are experiencing now is developers are increasingly having a seat at the table and they would like their infrastructure architects and infrastructure solution providers to enable them to do things that they want to do with fewer friction points. What day two platform that we built does is it upskills our it teams so that they can deli work, uh, what the developers need so that the sandbox environments that they want comes to life quickly. >>And on top of that, developers can move fast with the innovation with guard rails that are in place, the guard rails that are it, administrators, it leaders are able to set for developers, include cost guard, rails, governance, guard, rails, security, and compliance guard rails, a, you know, bot based approach to getting out of the way of the developers so they can move fast while the, uh, technology provides them the Alcoa to go innovate without running into the common cloud problems, such as cost overruns or security or compliance challenges today, I'll go show and tell a little bit of all of this, and then we'll bring in partners or partner, canvas as well, so that she can talk about how we help the fortune 200, uh, innovate, uh, faster with our platform. >>Awesome. Well, let's get into it. I, you know, as you know, I, I think that day two operations is really a cloud, uh, lingua. Frank was going to be part of everyone's, uh, operational standard. And it's not just for making sure you've got cost-effectiveness, but innovation strategies that rely on cloud, they need to have new things in place. So take us through the show and tell. >>Great, well, let's switch to the slide deck here. So I'm going to give a quick background and then go from there. Great. So, um, uh, you know, Montclair is an intelligent cloud man and platform company. We help customers of all sizes. Uh, we are an AWS partner that is a cloud management tool, competency partner, super happy to be in a wedding on the AWS platform for AWS customers. Our platform is an autonomous cloud operations platform. What our mission is, we empower ID teams to go deliver to their developers and become cloud powerhouses. Uh, I'm going to go through a quick three sections of the Manticore platform that delivers value to our customers first with our platform without needing additional skillsets or hiring, uh, needing to hire, uh, you know, hard to find talent or having to use third party tools. Our customers can use AWS native solutions to achieve full visibility into their cloud environments. >>They can enable consistent self-service deployments and simplify them. They can also reduce the total cost of cloud operations, all in just a few clicks. Uh, I'm going to show and tell, uh, what customers get quickly moving into the slide where customers can get visibility into the footprint, a comprehensive security posture management and compliance posture management, click away and solve these problems. They can enable their innovation teams with operations ready environments that can provision anything from server-based workloads to serverless workloads, to containerized environments. All of that are available readily in the platform. And of course, uh, all of this can be done with a few clicks and no code. That's our platform. And a nutshell I'm happy to switch to a demo from here on John. How does that sound >>Great. Sounds awesome. Let's get the demo. Thanks for the overview. By the way, we cover that in a great video too, and a high level, um, in our new show startup showcase, people can check that out online, um, check it out, but let's get into the demo. >>Sounds good. So I'm going to switch to my laptop again here to show the browser window and go into the demo environment. Great. So this is Monte cloud.com. Uh, customers can go to app.monica.com. I'm going to move fast in a demo environment show and tell here, uh, customers split login, assuming they have signed up for the platform. It's free to sign up. Uh, the platform activates immediately. This is their full first run experience. Uh, customers can get started in about a couple of clicks. There's a welcome screen here. They can walk through this. What this provides is a way a guard had experience for customers to be able to gain visibility, security, compliance, and set up the cloud operations, uh, environment in just a couple of clicks. So in this case, customers can get continuous resource visibility. They click next from a security point of view, we'll assess about 2,220 plus security best practices and customers can select saying they would like to remediate the issues. >>We'll help do that. That's a bot based approach that does it click next compliance, a similar situation. We do compliance assessments in the platform. Customers can remediate it. Uh, click next. We have provisioning templates, John. We had a really good conversation yesterday about this, a whole set of, uh, well-architected, uh, templates that customers can click and provision anything from, uh, basic core networking, all the way up to high performance computing and minds that all is available in the platform. Again, click next to go select that customers can manage servers, windows, or Linux servers running on any cloud could be hybrid cloud, uh, Azure, AWS GCP. Again, we can manage them in a single interface and last but not the least application management, our ID operators and leaders want to have a position on how their cloud applications are performing. They want to react quickly to it best possible platform. Uh, that's it they've selected all the features. All the, which is free in the platform. Some features are available in the free trial. Customers can click and say they would like to try for 14 days. That's all. So click next platform sets itself up. This is how quick we can get to helping customers understanding what they need to do. I'm going to try and show you if I can go to the next screen here and say, this is my company name. >>So I'm going to enter some details here that, uh, helps, um, capture some basic information about, uh, our customers, uh, departments. Uh, let's say this is a demo account, or I'm going to say, um, HR, um, uh, account, let's say there's a human resources department that I'm trying to connect and manage their cloud environment, but click next >>And that's it. They connect to the AWS account. We now take our customers back to an AWS console where they're familiar interface. They're going to click next on this cloud formation stack here, which automatically starts creating what we need on the customer's account. And click, click a button here. It's going to run in the background, what my platform in this case, my view, the other view does is, uh, it instantly receives notification back from the customer's account. As you can see now, day two has recognized that, Hey, the customer is trying to connect the cloud account. It's a question. Do you want to manage these regions? We can manage 15 plus regions click next. Uh, that is pretty much it. Uh, I'm going to skip this one so that we can get to the dashboard. I'm going to skip this as well, because you can invite your team members. Uh, you can get weekly reports, uh, long story short, that's it about 10 clicks. We are already in, in a cloud environment where customers can begin to manage, operate and start taking control of the cloud footprint. >>Got it. And physical you, you skipped over the collaboration feature that's for what team members do. Kind of see the same dashboard. >>The great question. Uh, our customers can invite additional team members could be an educator who wants to look at the total cost of cloud operations. Uh, they could invite another team member who wants to be enabled only for certain parts of the platform. Very simple. We have SSO integration as well in the platform. So, uh, invite additional users start using day two in less than 10 minutes, no additional, uh, you know, configuration required. >>You know, Amazon's got that slogan always day one. You guys are always day to always go to >>About all about ensuring data was taken care of. >>Awesome. Great stuff. Candace, what's your take on this? How do you fit in here? Talk about what it's like to work with these guys. What's the, what's your perspective on this? A new multicloud day two operations dashboard. >>Hi, thank you, John. Hi, Ben Kat. Thank you very much for the introduction. Um, basically our interaction is collaborative and we're great team partners, and we work well with, with multicloud often and, and have been partners working together for quite some time and solutioning products for our clients. >>Great. Vinca you want to chime in as well and share some color commentary on, um, your partners value? >>Sure. Thanks Justin. So, uh, so green pages, uh, they offer cloud services and a whole suite of solutions to their customers. Some of the customers are ranging from fortune a hundred enterprises, uh, to a wide variety of customers. Perhaps we can actually switch over to a slide deck here, but Candace, if you're up for it, maybe we can walk through a liberal green pages and solutions that you've implemented. We can talk from the customer point of view, which we think would be more beneficial to our audience as well. >>Yes. Thank you. That's very helpful. Um, again, my name is Candice Hendrix and I'm a delivery architect here at green pages technology solutions. And what I'd like to do is share a few examples of collaboration that we have achieved through our partnership with Moni cloud first to give a better history of green pages we've been in business since 1992, we maintain a wide range of customer base, um, approximately 500 different, uh, customers and all different workflows from insurance to government to, um, um, manufacturing and the such. We've also made the CRN tech elite two 50 less for, uh, sense its inception in 2011. And basically what that is, is it's all of the companies and, or the top 250 companies in the U S and Canada, having the highest level of experience top of their game, maintaining the highest levels of training and certifications. We also offer managed services, support, professional services, cloud readiness assessments, and migrations, as well as growing a CSP or cloud service provider today, I would like to highlight a few innovative projects that we've executed with multicloud is our partner for AWS compliance needs as well as, um, AWS Dr. >>So this slide first outlines a business scenario that we dealt with with one of our clients to address cost security compliance standardization across a global AWS environment. And the challenge with this was that we experienced was the complexity of the cloud environment and the size of the environment and how can they stay compliant, optimize costs and scale the outcome with the teamwork of Mani cloud and green pages, we were able to achieve all the facets of the challenge, also enabling and, and creating what we coined it, the compliance bot and what that provided was a platform to easily parameterize some of the, um, options such as configurable schedules, configurable target servers, departments, um, options to choose between automated and manual remediation processes in compliance ability to choose whether that remediation process also, uh, auto reboots versus approval based reboots on, um, infrastructure or resources integrations into a Slack channel for manual remediation approval process, as well as daily noncompliance reporting the compliance bot also can ensure proper patching necessary agents required software versions and resources, um, that they maintain compliance through the use of tagging Lambda functions, AWS fleet manager, AWS config, and AWS CloudWatch. >>Uh, another, um, opportunity we've had to work with, um, Moni cloud in this use case, the scenario that the green pages customer needed to solve was the automation of Dr to address the requirement of an entire AWS regional failure within requirements was a RTO of four hours and an RPO of less than one minute uncertain ESE, two instances. So the challenge that we had was to develop this solution with only the use of AWS native services meeting the required RTO and RPO with no custom tooling integration. So with mighty clouds assistance and teamwork, what we were able to achieve is what we now refer to as the Dr. Bot, we solution the automation to replicate everything from their production, uh, environment in AWS to the Dr. Region in AWS, such as subnets, um, IP cider ranges, LAN IP addresses, security groups, load balancers, and all associated configuration settings. >>So with the pilot light scripting that runs daily through a Lambda function, we can manage those Delta copies into the Dr production or the Dr. Region from production and address any changes that may occur in the production environment to meet the RPO. What we used is cloud door, which is also a native AWS service. And we used AWS backup for the more static instances, we then created an integration to send any health alerts in the event of an AWS outage to their Slack channel. Then upon approval, um, they could kick off through a manual approval process. They could kick off and execute an end to end fail over from production to an AWS region and to their Dr. Region in AWS, both the compliance spot and the Dr. Bot automations can be ported and variabilize for any AWS environment. We welcome the opportunity to discuss this further and assist you in your cloud journey. I hope this explain some of the great innovation that we've been able to work with money cloud on. Thanks, Ben Capra, allowing me to speak and back to you. >>Thank you, Candace. This is fantastic. John Lassie Seesaw, right? The challenge with cloud operations is there's a lot of moving parts and, uh, visibility, compliance, security, uh, you know, all of that. Typically customers have to write custom code or integrate ten-plus tools, suddenly what, you know, customers we're seeing they're spinning up their own cloud operating teams. They're spinning up their own homegrown cloud operations model, which in invariably results in more attacks, symptoms of maintenance tasks, our platform can do all of this abstract, the complexity, and put this kind of automation within the reach of customers who are trying to transform their it departments by clicking away. That's the attack that we built on top. >>Yeah, I think that's a great example. I think Candace highlights some of the things we were talking about last time around intelligent applications, meeting, intelligent infrastructure, and to your point about operations, this comes up huge all the time in every conversation we're in and we're seeing it in the marketplace where there's a new operational model developing in real time. You're seeing people, um, homegrown ops, transforming ops. I mean, there's new roles and responsibilities are emerging and that's just the nature of the beast right now. This is kind of the new normal that it's not your traditional ops model. It's transitioning to a new, new way. This is a great example. Um, you see that the same way? >>Well, that's a, that's a great description, John you're right. That is the model that is evolving that, uh, once, um, that demands more from it teams and on the runway that is shrinking to transform and the cloud surface, it has grown how that's exactly where the becoming to help. And, uh, uh, we did do a little bit of a deep dive into what the platform does today to talk to our audience so that they can get this value. Thank you for that. Uh, you know, uh, depth in diving, happy to chat a little bit more if you'd like about, uh, where customers could go and that they can get started. >>Yeah. Looking forward to it. Vanco. Thanks for coming on, Candace. Thank you very much for sharing. Um, green pages. Congratulations. Love the Dr. Bot. That's phenomenal. I mean, I w I want a cube bottom. You're just doing these interviews is boss, but I'm looking forward to having a follow on conversation vanco. We're going to certainly see you out on the internet on Twitter. Um, maybe get you on our clubhouse, uh, chats, a lot of action out there. A lot of people talking about this, and you're seeing things from observability to new kinds of monitoring, to modern application development techniques that are just evolving in real time. So day two is here. Thanks for sharing. >>Looking forward, John, and, uh, where customers could go to is they could go to montclair.com today. They could get started in just a few place. We have a free version on the platform. They can activate this account in 10 months. They now have the power of the automation that we've built, and they can start taking control of the cloud operations in about 10 minutes. So we encourage persons to go find some free monitor.com and thank you candidates for taking the time, uh, uh, does it's fantastic that we'll be able to go solve some problems together. >>Mazi cloud turning teams into cloud powerhouses. That's their slogan. Check them out. I'm John Farrar with the cube. Thanks for watching.

>>Hello. Everyone were here it the Data Cloud summit and we had a real treat for you. I call it the CMO Power Panel. We're gonna explore how data is transforming marketing, branding and promotion, and with me, a three phenomenal marketing pros and chief marketing officers. Denise Person is the CMO Snowflakes Kat Holden of Thought spot and Laura Langdon of Whip pro Folks. Great to see you. Thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >>Great to be with you, David. >>Awesome. Denise, let's let's start with you. I want to talk about the role and the changing role of the CMO. It's changed a lot, you know, sports, of course, with all this data, but I wonder what you're experiencing and can you share us share with us? Why marketing, especially, is being impacted by data? >>Well, data is really what has helped us marketers turn ourselves into revenue drivers instead instead of call centers, and that's definitely a much better place to be. We come today measure things that were never possible before. What a person most excited about is the rial time access to data we have today. In the past, we used to get stale reports, you know, weeks after a marketing program was over. Today we get data in real time as our campaigns are up and running. And this is really what enables us to make those riel time adjustments to our investments in real time. And that is really have a profound impact on the results were having. And also today, you know, more than ever, adaptability is truly the superpower or marketing today and day. That's really what allows us to adapt to our customers preferences in real time. And that's really critical at this time. >>That's interesting what you say because, you know, in tough times used to be okay. Sales and engineering put a brick wall around those and you know the name it. Marketing, Say Okay, cut. But now it's like you go to marketing and say, Okay, what's the data say? How do we have to pivot and Scott? I wonder what of data and cloud really brought to the modern marketer that you might not have had before this modern era? >>Well, it Z this era. I don't think there's ever been a better time to be a marketer than there is right now, and The primary reason is that we have access to data and insights like we've never had, and I'm not exaggerating. When I say that I have 100 times more access to data, then I had a decade. It's just phenomenal when you look at the power of cloud search, ai These new consumer experiences for analytics. We can do things in seconds that used to take days and so it's B comments did he said. Ah, superpower for us toe. Have access to so much data and it's, you know, Kobe has been hard. Ah, lot of our marketing teams who've never worked harder, making this pivot from the physical world to the virtual world. But there, you know, at least we're working, and three other part of it is that digital she's created this phenomenal opportunity for us because the beauty of digital and digital transformation is that everything now is trackable, which makes it measurable and means that we can actually get insights that we can act on in a smarter way. And you know, it's worth giving an example. If you just look at this show right, like this event that we're doing in a physical world, all of you watching at home, you'd be in front of us in a room and we'd be able to know if you're in the room, right? We tracking the scanners when you walked in. But that's basically it. At that point, we don't really get a good sense for how much you like what we're saying. Uh, maybe you filled out a survey, but only 5 to 10% of people ever do that in the digital world. We know how long you stick around, and as a result, like it's easy people could just with the click, you know, change the channel. And so the bar for content has gone way up as we do these events. But we know how long people are sticking around. And that's what's so special about it. You know Denise and her team as the host of this show, they're going to know how long people watch this segment and that knowing is powerful. I mean, it's simple as using a product like thought spot. You could just ask a question. How many you know, what's the average view? Time by session and boom and sharp pops up. You're gonna know what's working, what's not. And that's something that you could take and act on in the future. And that's what our That's what customers were doing. So you know, snowflake in the spot that we share a customer with Lulu and they're tracking programs. So what people are watching at home, how long they're watching what they're watching next, and they're able to do that in a super granular way and improve their content as a result. And that's the power of this new world we live in. Uh, that's made the cloud and data so accessible to folks like us. >>Well, thank you for that. And I want to come back to that notion to understand how you're bringing data into your marketing office. But I wanna bring Laura and Laura were pro You guys partner with a lot of brands, a lot of companies around the world. I mean, thousands of partners, obviously snowflake and thought spot are, too. How are you using data to optimize these co marketing relationships? You know specifically, what are the trends that you're seeing around around things like customer experience? >>So, you know, we used data for all of our marketing decisions our own as well as with our partners. And I think what's really been interesting about partner marketing data is we can we can feed that back to our sales team, right? So it's very directional for them as well in their efforts moving forward. So I think that's a place where specifically to partners, it's really powerful. We can also use our collective data to go out to customers to better effect. And then, you know, regarding these trends, we just did a survey on the state of the intelligent enterprise. We we interviewed 300 companies, US and UK, and there were three Interesting. I thought statistics relevant to this, um, Onley 22% of the companies that we interviewed felt that their marketing was where it needed to be from an automation standpoint. So lots of room for us to grow right. Lots of space for us to play. And 61% of them believed that it was critical that they implement this technology to become a more intelligent enterprise. But when they ranked readiness by function, marketing came in six right, so H R R and D finance were all ahead of marketing. It was followed by sales, you know, And then the final data point that I think was interesting was 40% of those agreed that while the technology was the most important thing, that thought leadership was critical, you know? And I think that's where marketers really could bring. You know, our tried and true experience to bear and merging with this technology. >>Great. Thank you. So so did he say I've been getting the Kool Aid injection this week around Data Cloud have been pushing people, But now that I have the CMO in front of me, I wanna ask about the data cloud and what it means specifically for the customers. And what are some of the learnings? Maybe that you've experienced that can support some of the things that that Laura and Scott were just discussing. >>Yeah. Scott said before, right, he had 100 times more data than he ever has before. And that's again, if you look at all the companies we talked to around the world, it's not about the amount of data that they have. That is the problem is the ability to access that data that data for most companies is trapped across Silas across the organization. It's It's in data applications, systems of records. Some of that data sits with your partners that you want access, and that's really what the data clouds camps in. Data Cloud is really mobilizing that data for you. It brings all that data together for you in one place so you can finally access that data and really provide ubiquitous access to that data to everyone in your organization that needs it and can truly unlock the value off that data. And from a marketing perspective, I mean, we are responsible for the customer experience, you know, we provide to our customers. And if you have access toe all the data on your customers, that's when you have that customer 3 60 that we've all been talking about for so many years. And if you have all that data, you can truly, you know, look at their, you know, buying behaviors, put all those dots together and create those exceptional customer experiences. You can do things such as the retailers do in terms of personal decision, for instance, rights and those are the type of experiences in our customers are expecting today. They are expecting a 100% personalized experience for them all the time. And if you don't have all the data, you can't really put those experiences together at scale. And that is really where the data cloud comes in again. The data cloud is not only about mobilizing your own data within your enterprise. It's also about having access to data from your partners or extending access to your own data in a secure way to your partners within your ecosystems. >>Yeah, So I'm glad you mentioned a couple of things. I've been writing about this a lot, and particularly the 3 60 that we would dying for but haven't really been able to tap. I didn't call it the Data Cloud. I don't have a marketing gene. I had another sort of boring name for it, but I think there's, you know, similar vectors there. So I appreciate that. Scott, I wanna come back to this notion of building data DNA in your marketing, you know, fluency on and how you put data at the core of your marketing ops. I've been working with a lot of folks in banking and manufacturing and other industries that air that are struggling to do this. How are you doing it? What are some of the challenges that you can share and maybe some advice for your peers out there? >>Yeah, sure, it's, um Well, you brought up this concept of data fluency and it zone important one. And there's been a lot of talking industry about data literacy and being able to read data. But I think it's more important to be able to speak data to be fluent. And as marketers, we're all storytellers. And when you combine data with storytelling, magic happens. And so getting a data fluency is a great goal for us toe have for all of the people in our companies. And to get to that end, I think one of the things that's happening is that people are hiring wrong and they're thinking about it. They're making some mistakes. And so a couple of things come to mind when, especially when I look at marketing teams that I'm familiar with, they're hiring a lot of data analysts and data scientists, and those folks are amazing and every team needs them. Uh, but if you go to big on that, you do yourself a disservice. The second key thing is that you're basically giving your front lines, focus your marketing managers or people on the front lines. An excuse not to get involved data. And I think that's a big mistake because it used to be really hard. But with the technologies available to us now, these new consumer like experiences for Data Analytics, anybody can do it. And so we as leaders have to encourage them to do it. And I'll give you just a you know, an example. You know, I've got about 32 people on my marketing team, and I don't have any data analysts on my team across our entire company. We have a couple of analysts and a couple of data engineers, and what's happening is the world is changing where those folks, their enablers, they architect the system, they bring in the different status forces they use. Technologies like snowflake has been so great at making it easier for people. The folks technology together, and they get data out of it quickly. But they're pulling it together, and then we'll simple things like, Hey, I just want to see this weekly instead of monthly. You don't need to waste your expensive data science talent. Gartner puts a stand out there that 50% of data scientists are doing basic visualization work. That's not a good use of their time. You The products are >>easy >>enough now that everyday marketing managers could do that. And when you have a marketing manager come to you and say, You know, I just figured out this this campaign, which looks great on the surface, is doing poorly. From our perspective, that's a magic moment. And so we all need to coach our teams to get there. And I would say, you know, lead by example, give them an opportunity Thio access data and turn it into a story that's really powerful. And then, lastly, praised people who do it, use it as something to celebrate inside our companies is a great way to kind of get this initiative. >>E love it. You're talking about democratizing data, making it self service. People feel ownership, you know, Laura did. He starts talking about the ecosystem, and you're kind of the ecosystem pro here. How does the ecosystem help marketers succeed? Maybe you could talk about the power of many versus the resource of of one. >>Sure, you know, I think it's a it's a game changer and it will continue to be. And I think it's really the next level for marketers to harness this. This power that's out there and use it. You know, it's something that's important to us. But it's also something we're starting to see our customers demand, you know, we went from a one size fits all solution, Thio. They want to bring the best in class to their organization. We all need to be really agile and flexible right now. And I think this ecosystem allows that, you know, you think about the power of a snow plate snowflake mining data for you, and then a thought spot really giving you the dashboard toe, have what you want. And then, of course, um, implementation partner like a whip Roh coming in and really being able to plug in whatever else you need, um, to deliver. And, uh, I think it's really super powerful. And I think it gives us, you know, it just gives us so much to play with. And so much room to grow is market. >>Thank you. Did he say why don't you bring us home? We're almost out of time here, but marketing, art, science both. What do you thoughts? >>Definite? Both. I think that's exciting. Part about marketing. It is a balancing act between art and science. Clearly, it's problem or science today than it used to be. But the art part is really about inspiring change. It's about changing people's people's behavior and challenging the status quo, right? That's the art part. The science part. That's about making the right decisions all the time, right? Making sure we are truly investing in what's gonna drive revenue for us. >>Guys, thanks so much for coming on the Cube. Great discussion. Really appreciate it. Thank you for watching everybody. We're here at the data clouds summit. A lot of great content, so keep it right there. We'll be right back right after this short break.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Dell Technologies. World Digital experience Brought to you by Dell Technologies. Hello, everyone. And welcome back to the cubes. Continuing coverage of del Tech World 2020. This is David Want, and I'm here with Sam. Grow Kat. Who's the senior vice president of product marketing? Adele Technology. Sam. Great to see you. Welcome. >>Great to be here, Dave. >>All right, we're gonna talk generally about Cloud in the coming decade, but in really how the cloud models evolving. But I want to specifically ask them about the as a service news that Dell's making at DT W You know what those solutions look like? How they're gonna evolve. Maybe maybe Sam, we can hit on some of the customer uptake and the feedback as well. Is that sound good? >>Yeah, Sounds great. Let's dive right in. >>All right, let's do that. So, look, you've come from the world of disruptor. You know, when you joined Isil on that got acquired by M. C. And then Del So you've you've been on both sides of the competitive table and cloud is obviously a major force. Actually, you know, I'd say, the major disruptive force in our industry. So let's talk about how Dell's responding to the cloud trend generally. Then we'll get into the announcements. >>Yeah, certainly. And you're right. I've been on both sides of this, and there is no doubt if you look at just over the last decade or so, how customers are partners. We're really looking at evaluating how they can take advantage of the the value of moving workloads to the cloud. And we've seen it happen over the last decade or so, and it's happening at a more frequent pace. And there's no doubt that is really what planted the seed of this new operating experience. You know, kind of a new lifestyle, so to speak around as a service, because when you go to the cloud, that's the only way they roll is you get in as a service experience. Eso that really has started to come into the data centers organizations or moving specific workloads and applications to the cloud of Hey, how do I get that in a non premise experience? And I think throwing gasoline on that is certainly the pandemic, and Kobe, 19 has really made organizations evaluate how to move much quicker room or gradually by moving some applications to the cloud. Because, frankly, on Prem just wasn't able to move as fast as they like to see. So we're seeing that macro trend accelerate. And, you know, I think we're in good shape to take advantage of that as we go forward. >>Well, that brings us to the hard news of what you're calling Project Apex year as a service initiative. What specifically are you announcing this week? >>Yes. So Project Apex is one of our big announcements. And that's really where we're targeting how we're bringing together and unifying our product development or sales go to market, our marketing, go to market Everything coming together underneath Project Apex, which is our as a service and cloud like experience. Look, we know in that world where customers were constantly evaluating which applications stay on Prem, which applications and workloads should go to the cloud. I think the market has certainly voted clearly that it's gonna be both. It's gonna be a hybrid, multi cloud world, but what they absolutely or clear that they want is a simple, easy to use as a service experience, regardless of if their on primer off from. And that's where. Really, the traditional on premise solutions fall down because it's just too darn complex. Still, they've got many different tools managing many different applications that oversee their cloud operations, their various infrastructure, whether it's server or compute or networking. They all run different tools, so it's very, very complex. It also is very rigid to scale. You can't move as fast because they can't deploy as fast. It requires manual intervention toe by more you to think I got a get a sales rep in house to come in and, uh, extend your environment and grow your environment. And then, of course, the traditional method is very cap ex heavy. In a world where organizations air really trying thio preserve cash. Cash is king. It doesn't really give them the flexibility. Traditionally, um, are going forward that they'd like to see on that front. So what they want to see is a consistent operating experience for their on and off from, uh, environments. They want to see a single tool that can manage and report to grow and do commerce across that environment, regardless of its on or off friend. Uh, they want something that can scale quickly. Now look, when you're moving equipment on Prem, it's not gonna be a click of a button, but you should be able to buy and procure that with the click of a button and then very quickly, within less than a handful of days, that equipment should be stood up, deployed and running in their environment. And then, finally, it's got to deliver this more flexible finance model, whether it's leveraging flexible subscription models or optics friendly models. Customers were really looking for that more off X friendly approach, which we're gonna be providing with Project Apex so very, very excited about kind of the goals and the aspirations of Project Apex. We're going to see a lot of it come come to market early next year, but we're I think we're well situated, as I said, to take advantage of this opportunity. >>So when I was looking through the announcement in sort of squinting through it, the three things jumped out and you definitely hit on. Those. One is choice, but sometimes you don't wanna give customers too much choice, so it's gotta be simple, and it's got to be consistent. So It feels like you're putting this abstraction layer over your entire portfolio and trying to hit on those three items. Uh, which is somewhat of a balancing act. But is that right? >>Yeah. No, you're You're exactly right. The kind of the pillars of the project Apex value proposition, So to speak is simplicity, choice and consistency. So we've got to deliver that simple kind of end end journey view of their entire cloud and as his for his experience, that need span our entire portfolio. So whether it's servers or stores are networking or PCs or cloud, all of that needs to be integrated into essentially a large single Web interface that gives you visibility across all of that. And, of course, the ease of scale up and, frankly, scaled down. You should be able to do that in real time through the system, you know, choices a big, big factor for us. You know, we've got the broadest portfolio in the industry. We want to provide customers the ability to consume infrastructure anyway. They want clearly they consume consume it the traditional way. But this more as a service flexible consumption approach is fundamental to making sure people customers on Lee pay for what they use So highly metered environment pay for pay as they go. Leverage subscriptions essentially give them that op X flexibility that they've been looking for. And then finally, I think the rial key differentiator is that consistent operating experience. So whether you move workloads on or off, Prem, it's got to be in a single environment that doesn't require you to jump around between different application and management experiences. >>Right? So I gotta ask you the tough question. I want to hear your answer to it. I mean, we've seen the cloud model. Everybody knows it very well, But But why now? People going to say Okay, you're just responding to HP. What's what's different between what you're doing and what some of your competitors are doing? >>Yeah, so I think it really comes down Thio the choice and breadth of what we're bringing to the table. So, you know, we're not going to force our customers to go down one of these routes. We're gonna provide that ultimate flexibility. And I think what we're what will really define ourselves against them in China, ourselves against them is that consistent operating experience we've got that opportunity to provide both an on prem edge and cloud experience that doesn't require them to move out of that operating experience to jump between different tools. So whether you're running a storage as a service environment, which will have in the first after next year, um, looking through our new cloud console that is coming out early next year is Well, you're gonna be able to have that single view of everything that's going on across your environment. It also be able to move workloads from on Prem and off Prem without breaking that consistent experience. I think that is probably the biggest differentiator we're going to have when you when you ladder that onto just the General Dell Technologies value of being able to meet and deliver our solutions anywhere in the world at any point of the data center at the edge or even cloud native. We've got the broadest portfolio to meet our customer needs wherever we need to go. >>So my understanding is the offering is designed to encompass the entire Dell Technologies portfolio from applying solutions I s G etcetera, not VM where specifically But that Zraly, that whole Dell Technologies portfolio correct. >>Yeah. And look, over time we totally expectable transacted VM ware through this so way. Do expect that to be part of the solution eventually. Eso Yeah, it is across. You know, PCs. A service storage is a service infrastructure. As a service, our cloud offers all of our services traditional services, um that are helping to deliver this as a service experience. And even our traditional financial flexible consumption models will be included in this. Because again, we want to offer ultimate choice and flexibility. We're not gonna force our customers to go down any of these pads, but we want to do is present thes pads and go wherever they want to go. We've got the breath of the portfolio in the offers. Thio, Get them there. >>Okay, so it's it's really a journey. You mentioned storage as a service coming out first, and then Aziz. Well, if I understand it, the idea is that I'm gonna have visibility and control over my entire state on Prem Cloud edge. Kind of the whole enchilada. Maybe not right out of the chute. But that's the vision. >>Absolutely. You've got to be able to see all of that and we'll continue thio iterating over time and bring mawr environments more applications, more cloud environments into this. But that is absolutely the vision of Project Apex is to deliver that fully integrated core edge cloud. Uh, partner experienced thio all of the environments, our customers to be running it. >>I wanna put my my customer had on my CFO CEO had Okay, What's the fine print? You know, one of the minimum bars to get in. What's the minimum commitment I need to make? What are the some of those? Those nuances? >>Yeah. So you know both the storage is a service which will be our first offer of many in our portfolio and the cloud console, which will give you that single web interface to kind of manage report and kind of thrive in this as a service experience. All that will be released in the first half of the next year. So we're still frankly defining what that will look like. But we wanna make sure that we deliver a solution that can span all segments from small business, the media business to the biggest enterprises out there globally. Goal expansion through our channel partners, we're gonna have gos and Channel Partners fully integrated as well service providers as well as a fundamental important piece of our delivery model and delivering this experience for our customers. So the fine print day will be out early next year. Is we G A. These releases and bring in the market. But ultimate flexibility and choice up and down the stack and geographically wide is the goal of the intent. We plan to deliver that. >>Can you add any color to the sort of the sort of product journey, if you will, I even hesitate Sam to use the word product because you're really sort of transferring your mindset into a platform mindset in the services mindset as opposed to bolting services. On top of a product you sell a product is okay, service guys, you take it from here. It's really you have to sort of re think you know your how you deliver on DSO You say you start with storage on then So what can we expect over the next midterm? Long term? >>Yeah. I'll give you an example. Look, we sell a ton of as a service and flexible consumption today. We've been at it for 10 years. In fact, in Q two, we sold Our annual recurring revenue rate is 1.3 billion growing at 30% Very, very pleased. So this is not new to us. But how you described Dave is right. We adopt products customers in pick their product. They pick their service that they want a bolt on. Then they pick their financial payment model. They bolted on, so it's a very good, customized way to build it. That's great, and customers are going to continue to want that will continue to deliver that. But there is an emerging segment that wants more just kind of think of the big easy button they want to focus on an outcome. Storage is a service is a great, great example where they're less concerned about what individual product element is. Part of that, um, they want it fully managed by Dell Technologies or one of our partners. They don't want to manage it themselves. And of course, they want it to be paid for use on an op X plan that works for, works their business and gives them the flexibility. So when customers going forward want to go down this as a service outcome driven path. They're simply going to say, Hey, what data service do I want? I want file or block unified object. They pick their data service based on their workloads. They pick their performance and capacity tear. There is a term limit. You know, right now, we're playing 1125 years, depending on the amount of terms you want Dio. And then that's it. It's managed by Dell Technologies. It's on our books from Dell Technologies on bits, of course. Leveraging our great technology portfolio to bring that service and that experience to our customers. So the service is the product now it really is making that shift that we are. We're moving into a services driven, services outcome driven set of portfolio on solutions for our customers. >>So you actually have a lot of data on this? I mean, you talk about a billion dollar business, uh, maybe talk a little bit about customer uptake. Uh, you know, I don't know what you can share in terms of numbers and a number of subscription customers, but what I'm really interested in the learnings and the feedback and how that's informed your strategy? >>Yeah. I mean, you're right again. We've been at this for, you know, many, many years. We have over 2000 customers today that have chosen to take advantage of our flexible consumption and as a service offers that we have today never mind, kind of as we move into these kind of turn key easy button as a service offers that air to come that early next year. So we've leveraged all of that learnings, and we've heard all of that feedback. And it's why it's really important that choice and flexibility is fundamental to the project. APEC strategy. There are some of those customers that they want to build their own. They want to make sure they're running the latest power max or the latest power store. They want to choose their network. They wanna choose how they protect it. They want to choose what type of service they they want to cover some of the services. They may want very little from us or vice versa. And then they wanna maybe leverage additional, more traditional means to acquire that based on their business goals. That feedback has been loud and clear, but there is that segment that is a no No, no. I need to focus more on my business and not my infrastructure. And that's where you're going to see these more turnkey as a service. Solutions fit that need where they want to just define s l. A's outcomes. They want us to take on the burden of managing it for them so they can really thick focus on their applications in their business, not their infrastructure. So things like metering tons of feedback and how well wanna meter this, uh, tons of feedback on the types of configurations and scale they're looking for? The applications and workloads that they're targeting for this world is very different than the more traditional world. So we're leveraging all of that information to make sure we deliver our infrastructure as a service and then eventually solutions as a service you think about S A P is a service vb isa service ai machine learning as a service will be moving up the stack as well to meet more of a application integrated as a service experience as well. >>So I wanna ask you so I mean, you've given us a couple of data points, their billion dollar plus business couple 1000 customers is this? I mean, you've got decent average contract values. If if I do my math right s so it's not just the little guys. I mean, I'm sorry. It's not just the big guys, but there's some fat middle is, well, that they're taking this up. Is that fair to say >>totally? I mean, I would say frankly, you know, in the enterprise space, it's the mid the larger sides have historically and we expect they'll continue to want to kind of choose their best a breed apart. Best debris to products, best of breed services. Best to breed financial consumption. Great. And we're in great shape. There were very competitive, very, very confident or competitive and competing in that space. Today, I think going into the turkey as a service space that will play up market. But it will really play downmarket mid market, smaller businesses. It gives us the opportunity to really drive a solution there where they don't have. The resource is to maybe manage a large storage infrastructure or backup infrastructure, compute infrastructure. They're gonna frankly look to us to provide that experience for them. I think are as a service offers will really play stronger in that mid and kind of lower end of the market. >>So tell us again the sort of availability of the actual, like the console, for example, when when can I actually get? I mean, I can get I could do as a service today. I could buy subscriptions from you. This is where it all comes together. What's the availability and roll out details? >>Sure. So as we look to move, move to our integrated kind of turn key as a service offers the console or announcing at Dell Technologies World as it's in public preview now. So for organizations of customers that want to start using it, they can start using it. Now, Uh, the storage, as a service offers gonna be available in the first half of next year. So we're rapidly kind of working on that now, looking to early next year to bring that to market so you'll see the console and the first as a service offered with storage, is a service available in the first half of next year, readily available to any and everyone that wants to deploy it. So we're We're not that far off right now, but we felt it was really, really important to make sure our customers, our partners and the industry really understands how important this transformation to as a service and cloud is for Dell Technologies. That's why you know, frankly, externally and internally, Project Apex will be that North Star to bring our end end value together across the business, across our customers across our our teams. And that's why we're really making sure that everybody understands Project Apex and as a services is the future for Dell. And we're very much focused on that. >>So I mean, is the head of product marketing. This is really a mindset of cultural change, really. You're really becoming the head of service marketing. In a way, How are you guys thinking about you know, that mindset shift? >>What? Really, it's it's How am I thinking about it? How is the broader marketing organization thinking about it? How is engineering Clearly thinking about it? How is finance thinking about it? How its sale like this is transformative across every single function within Dell Technologies has a role to play to do things very differently. Now it's going to take time. It's not gonna happen overnight. You know, various estimates have. This is a fairly small percentage of business today in our segments. But we do expect that to start to and it has started to accelerate. Ramp. You know, we're preparing for a large percentage of our business to be consumed this way very, very soon. That requires some changes in how we sell changes in how we mark. It clearly changes in how we build products and so forth, and then ultimately, have you know how we account for this has to change. So we're approaching it, I think the right way, Dave, where we're looking at this truly end. And this isn't a a tweak and how we do things or in evolution, this is a revolution for us to kind of move faster to this model again building on the learnings that we have today with our strong customer base on experience. We built up over the years. But this is a This is a big shift. This isn't an incremental turn of the crank. We know that. I think you expect that our customers expect that, and that's that's the mission we're on with Project date. >>Well, I mean with 30% growth. I mean that za clear indicator and people like growth. We're going. I've no doubt that clients are. That's a clear indicator that customers are glomming onto this. And and I think many folks wanna buy this way. And I think increasingly, that's how they buy SAS. That's how they buy Cloud. You know, why not buy infrastructure the same way? Give us your closing thoughts, Sam. What are the big takeaways? >>Yeah, Big takeaways is from a Dell Technologies perspective. Project Apex is that strategic vision of bringing together or as a service and cloud capabilities into a easy to consume, simple, flexible offer that provides ultimate choice to our customers. Look, the market has spoken. We're gonna be living in a hybrid, multi cloud world. I think the market is also starting to speak, that they want that to be in as a service experience, regardless of its on or off ground. It's our job. It's our responsibility to bring that he's that simplicity and elegance to the on Prem world. It's not certainly not going anywhere. Eso That's the mission that we're on with Project Apex and I like the hand we've been dealt. I like the infrastructure and the solutions that we have across our portfolio. And we're gonna We're gonna be after this for the next couple of years to refine this and build this out for our customers. This is just the beginning. >>Well, it's awesome. Thank you so much for coming to the Cuban. We were seeing the cloud model. I mean, it's extending on Prem Cloud, multi clouds going to the edge. And the way in which customers want to transact business is moving at the same same direction. So, Sam, good luck with this. And thanks so much. Appreciate your time. >>Yeah. Thanks, Dave. Thanks, Everyone. Take care. >>All right. Thank you for watching. This is Dave Volonte for the Cuban. Our continuing coverage of Del Tech World 2020. The Virtual Cube will be right back right after this short break

>> And one topic. I want to get onto that. You mentioned it up and you opened the can of worms on this. So I blame you. His blood flow restriction training you called B F R. And Freeman listening chases the well, the most well versed individuals in this area. I was, I learned from him probably weekly on it, and I get studies from him. I used to be daily. Probably. It will lessen consistent now, because he's probably realizing that I can't read that fast. But I'm gonna chase to talk a little bit about some of protocols that you used be a far and harder you can use it for. Not yet. That's like development for individuals who might just be seeking an alternative way to work out whether the older adults, people who travel on the road and what it does physiologically for not only muscle growth, but the tendon thickness, like you said, and some of the other other >> protocols. Such a cellular swelling protocols. >> Yeah, yeah, I think you know, the one thing I would say about our previous of conversation with incense Thing is, I'm not telling people not to take him out like running around saying that that's the devil and all that. So I make sure that I'm not like one of those zealots about that stuff. It's it's just Hey, do you need it? You know, like this, that thought process is critical. Is this necessary? Not let me just problem cause I'm sore today, right? I think that's the caveat I want people to walk away with is that everything is necessary if it's necessary. And if it's not, is there a better alternative, or is it just part of life? Is that part of being a division one athlete or, you know, somebody who's recreational? E fit is you're going to feel a little sore and tired. Is it necessary to take that pill that made negatively? Thank you. So I think that's one thing I want to say, but kind of moving on to the >> You are not a dealer. I will vouch for it. Yeah. Interesting topic to talk about. And I give you credit for being open minded on both ends. Yes, everyone was concerned. >> Yeah, Yeah, I want to throw that out there. But I think with the Bee Afar stuff, it's I'm so ill. I've learned a lot from the man. Dr Headless Sarah. Hey, Works is Smart tools company, which they're just absolutely revolutionising how available and the education that's associative willful restrictions. So I you know, I I'm gonna kind of pass on that credit and say that, uh, they're really pushing the field forward, and I'm not affiliated with the company. I just think what they're doing is is fantastic work, because local restriction obviously has been around for a long time. It's not new, you know, we're not pretending it's new, but you know, it's really the availability of cuffs for sort of affordable prices has made it seem no refreshed and kind of a new life to it started in the late nineties in Japan, really doing a lot of the early research on it. Ah, lot of people started with tine off with different straps and and, ah, bands that they're just wrapping around their arms and looking for, you know, in a partial occlusion and some cases probably dangerously a full ischemia. But I think you saw it. And most recent years, with some of the owns recovery and the Delphi's, which come in a pretty high price tag and as I mentioned, smart tools has come out. They have much more affordable. I think it's, you know, a tenth of the price. And so now you're able tto. But these types of you know it's tool and everybody's hands. And I think it's is changing the landscape as faras, a modality that has multiple uses. And that's one thing when we talk sports science, we talked technology. You know, everything has a time in place. But when I look and evaluate and vet out technology, or whatever we're going to bring on is as a new resource. I always looked forward to have multiple uses, doesn't have a bang for your buck, and I think the blood flow restriction does. It's versatile. It can be used in rehab. You can be used to build muscle confused for strength. It can be used as, ah, activity potentially ater so you can use it. Potentially increase your subsequent performance with an acute time window. You can use it as a recovery tool, so I think the the utilization of it is still we're learning about it. There's still no definitive. Here's how this happens in this sequence but I think that's what Everything right? The human body. We're learning so much about it. But the science that's there has proven that low load with local restriction, where we're including one hundred percent venous return, but partially including arterial inflow. So there is blood flow going into the muscles and the periphery, but there is no blood flow returning, and so it creates a cooling effect. We're essentially you're gonna limit the availability of oxygen. You're going to decrease the pH and more acidic. You're goingto deplete foster creating stores. You're essentially going to run through the size of principle and use up small of slow twitch fibers and skip essentially rights of fast switch fivers with a low load or even a non loaded exercise. So I think when you talk about somebody who's got limitations, maybe they just had surgery. They can't run. They can't have the impulse of the impact that you would need or you would want to see toe. I kind of developed the most cultures. They come back. Little restriction is a great way because takes a low load exercise and you realise, is that restricted bowling and you get a subsequent fast, which adaptation? So you're you're simulating the big boys, the ones that move us, the ones that make us jump and run faster. Ah, and I think you're seeing time Windows of adaptation that air a sixth of the time Faster, you're getting strength. And I purchased three Adaptation in two weeks, whereas in traditional resistance training it was taking eight to twelve. Um, so And when you talk about, I had an athlete rolled her ankle and I want to make sure that they're not having atrophy is they walk around in a boot. I need to make sure that the muscles around the knees and the hamstrings, the name of the elders, critical drivers and sport aren't just wasting away. So we would have athletes obviously in the rehab sitting, doing protocols to develop muscle but also just sitting the act of just sitting with occlusion passively not doing anything has been shown to cut atrophy by fifty percent. So it's fantastic because it's not invasive. You're not doing anything into him. They're just sitting. So, uh, we don't you know, promote them to play on their phones constantly, but they can sit there and have their phone out and, you know, twenty minutes goes by and they just hopefully of, you know, benefited their return to play and a, you know, a faster, more efficient way than just sitting around. So lots of lots of utility for it. >> Interesting. So for those not familiar bloodflow restriction training the way it works, you gotta cuss. Arms hopefully cast. Not just, uh, elastic band, you tying on. But that's how I started originally from Kat to training out in Japan. So it's a cuff. The attach is approximately on the whim, typically by the shoulder or up along the thigh, and it includes the amount of blood so reduces the amount of blood. Don't go into the muscle, which then allows these Siri's of physiological effects that chase alluded to. That is a difference between Venus and arterial occlusion and chase in. Regards to that were Some of the specifics are for people who aren't as familiar with blood flow. You rattle off a bunch of stuff regarding blood flow and from the adaptations of it. But people who aren't familiar with it you measure the occlusion through Doppler. I believe Smart tools uses a remote Doppler. They're attached to you on the distal limb and everyone using this, what percentages do use? How do you know what you too much occlusion that to type that not tight enough. And we're the protocols that you use once you have the right conclusion for that limb to increase some of these hypertrophy, some muscle growing activities or, you know, just sitting there play on your phone activities that reduces hypertrophy for your athletes. >> Yeah. So what you're doing is you're actually going to take an external Doppler or something that's gonna allow you to magnify the sound of the pulse, right? So if you take radio pulse, you know, right here you would replace the Doppler on it. You would actually be able to hear the heartbeat as it from service, >> due stew, stew, sh >> and up top. They're wearing the cuff. You're going to slowly start to inflate it. It gets tighter, tighter, tighter. And you will eventually get to a point where that, uh, false will start to fade of >> this dish dish. >> And it comes to a point where it's non existent. And so that's when you know that there's been full arterial occlusion that's there one hundred percent. There is no blood flow into that arm. There's no blood flow out. It is included. And so research has shown that basically anywhere from thirty percent in ninety percent, you're gonna have the same amount of occlusion. So if I was explained that, ah, a little bit more detail is so I'm going to take that one hundred percent occlusion number. So if you've ever done your blood pressure and the typical one of perfect blood pressure's one twenty of Brady and that's the same device we're going to use I mean its's stigmata. I'm anemometer the tough one to say, um and you're going to get a number up there like, let's just say two fifty. Alright, so that's your hundred percent occlusion. What again research has shown is that in thirty percent of two. Fifty all the way up to ninety percent of two. Fifty, that's the sweet spot or including arterial, that actually doesn't improve occlusion as the higher you go. So we stick to fifty percent. So, you know, fifty per cent of two fifty is one twenty five. And, ah, you're goingto have Justus. Much of you did it at ninety percent. And really, the differences is pain perception. Because if you start getting up one hundred percent inclusion and telling somebody to exercise, they're not going to like it. It's not going to feel good. So it's a nice sweet spot of saying, Hey, we have included Arterial but not fully restricted, but we have researched it, Venus. But we can still move and be act on DSO with that what you're really looking to do. There's a thirty fifteen fifteen fifteen protocol that's seen pretty commonly, but ultimately you just need to fatigue the muscles. Ito have a low load exercise that's done for high volume, typically fifteen plus wraps for multiple sets with a minimal respirations. So what we're trying to do is we're trying Teo, allow for blood to be flung, pumped into the muscle. You're goingto actively, you know, contract. Over time, it's going to stimulate fast twitch fibers. You're going to rest for a very short period. More blood flow is going to go to the area. It's gonna keep getting more acidic. It's going to keep activating Mohr fast twitch, and you're going to just repeat that. And so I mean it really, really magnifies the response of typically a weight or resistance that would be almost no impact on you at all. You would have no performance benefit from using a weight that light. So you can really use it as you know, when I was in a rehab setting with an athlete who has very little capability to handle load. Or you could use it as a finisher in your body builder. And you wantto stimulate ah, muscle group that's lagging, and you really want to build it up. Ah, it's the fantastic thing I think about It is it's a minimally damaging activity. And what I mean by that is that you're gonna have a dramatic reduction and creating stores of CK levels. Lt's myoglobin. You're not going to get the same mechanical breakdown that you see what too difficult resistance training when we start talking about internal load and H R V. If you were to substitute and in season lift with the Afar, you're still going to get strengthened and have virtually adaptation without the potential systemic load. That may be a typical resistance training session. Does the now you start talking about minimizing, uh, internal responses? Bye. Still getting annotation, so it's it's pretty, pretty amazing. >> Yeah, that's that's something. So I've seen personally as well. I use smart tools, smart tools. I'm not feeling it with a big fan of whom, because they made it affordable for individuals like you, of myself actually use them. So we're talking about occlusion. We're talking about reducing amount of arterial occlusion, but not with the amount of Venus inclusions here allowing blood to pool. It's an extent you get large amounts of violation. You increase the amount of capital area is in that area, but you're also not breaking down the muscle in the same way that you would otherwise. So we're lifting a heavy load. You have the fibers himself begin to essentially tear apart. Your body has to rebuild these, but now we're increasing hypertrophy, so growing them also, without having to have this break down response in the muscle itself. But that being said, the loads that you're using are also twenty percent of your one rat max. So a very, very light load you're using to fatigue. How does that affect the tendon itself? Because one thing I've noticed personally, this is I'm not I'm not saying you should do this, Okay, this is what I did and maybe stupid or whatever you wanna call it. I had a really bad Tanaka, the issue of my knee where I couldn't play basket. I couldn't go upstairs well, and I didn't be afar. Traditional trailer at tempo work. But when I started doing be fr low level plyometrics when I started inducing some of the shearing forces on the tendon to increase adaptation that area that otherwise might not be there with a >> low load, >> I started Teo see much better results in my knee compared to some of the tempo work. Do you do anything specifically with B a far that might target attendant outside of the traditional thirty wraps, fifteen wraps, fifteen reps. Fifteen reps with >> a low load. >> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think you know some of the ice of measures that we talked about when you were working in Stanford and having that Anil Jessica effect. So having the ability to have the mitigation on acute windows of what, fifteen, forty five minutes, but also the college and proliferation. So you're getting an increase in human growth hormone that there's like one hundred seventy percent times greater after ah workout, which we know. H gh doesn't necessarily build bigger muscles, but it does stimulate collagen growth. So when you're having somebody who is maybe coming back from a ruptured Achilles or another, you know IDA cirrhosis issue, You know, it's a great way to help promote and environment and maybe in a vascular area and the kind of forces, nutrients and a hormonal shift that may promote a more appealing environment. I think you know, we talked about it briefly. The training piece, I think you know, the more that you can start to get people into. I'm not overly dramatic, sport specific person, but I think the more you can get people into activities that are going to be replicated on the field, know whether it's sled pushes and walks or whether it's, you know, having some type of, um, you know, activity. If your picture where you're getting your arm through these range of emotions that are going to be necessary while using the inclusion is actually gonna promote a lot of ongoing benefit. I think toe rehabilitate the area on a functional manner and develop not only the musculature, but also remote the properties around that specific tissue that needs to be healed. So I think there's some really cool things that are just now kind of being played with Just because we can actually die. Elin, the proper collusions. We can actually die. Elin. What we want to see happen with you whether it's, uh, some of the cells, whole protocols that we're doing are these giving preconditions. Bread falls. Where were haven't athletes sit for extended period time passively with their occlusion of set? And then they're gonna reap, refuse. We're in, Allow blood flow back, and we're going to do that repeated intervals prior to activity and see a potential for increased power output. Oxygen. Connectix. The research is pretty amazing with some of the human reconditioning and that they're saying, um, increase time to exhaustion, decrease time trial performances. But they don't really know why. You know, there isn't like a clear mechanisms for performance gains that's been totally identified just yet. There has been stuff where it's shown to attenuate lacked eight levels. So you're obviously no cellular. Respiration is enhanced because you're not getting that amount of hydrogen present in the blood. So you may be potentially more efficient energy user using more, more fat and oxygen, so that's great there. But I think you know, as the research are sketching out, that piece is that's one thing that I'm looking at doing for my research focus for school. Is that potentially a shin piece? If I'm already going to be sitting around before a game, or I'm gonna have time between events like a track and field event are, you know, Cool event. And I know I can sit here passively, not use energy, provide a stimulus to the body that's gonna potentially open up neural pathways or physiological mechanisms to increase contract ability of the muscles. I'm going to, then maybe get that extra tenth of a second. I'm going to throw an extra, you know, a couple feet on the javelin. I'm going to do whatever I need to dio potentially at a higher level. I think that's really as we're pushing towards performance. Why do you take, you know, choose during the game like you want increase performance, you want to run longer, and I think this is going to add one more a little layer to it. That from an investment piece is minimally invasive is minimally changing to their to their schedule. They're not. They don't have to do anything crazy. They feel good. And that's the biggest thing. Is the anecdotal feedback on it is man, I feel great. I feel like I have to I don't have to do a full warm up. I feel like I can just kind of get out there, move around. We still have him do stuff, but they just feel like they've warmed up faster. And I think of that piece is gonna be really cool to see if we can demonstrate some of empirical evidence on it. >> Yeah, that I'm excited to see the research, >> and I know you're working hard on it. >> It's kind of a great stop. Making Brava kind really brings us full circle because you look at be fr it, increases their sit in the area and lacked a production and increases economic nervous system arousal, which has been shown both to increase cognitive abilities. Um, neural plasticity and ability to enhance memory. And so why you're doing this? It's also the only prime main the body for the coming activity. We also prime ing the body is a hole in regards to it's mental capacity and not just the muscular area. And so when you start looking at that, you know, full system, the human body and how we can talk about a little bit here, some dynamical systems where you know the body is really complex. What happens in one area affects another. You can't differentiate between your physical mental side because the physical side of the Afar is now enhancing your mental side. Just like your perception. Ten hands a workout. And so you have feedback up and feedback back down. And that's just a great, you know, highlight You brought up because now it's really inclusive. Were we're so often thinking this isolated manner. Oh, if we've been to this or we run this, this will happen. But we don't think about it in this recursive loop manor where what I did to my muscle, right, our muscle releases these myo times. I go talk to our brain, which then go back and talk to our muscle. And we have the endocrine system working together to orchestrate this all and just the whole idea of be a farm for a game It's not just right the muscles and the scheming Preconditioning, but it's also a fact that you're putting the person in a state That's more conducive. Two performance itself, because so often and this isn't to go on a rant and I apologise. And this is something you buy a top about, right? Avoiding the sympathetic states, All right, we don't want to be sitting there before game doing deep belly breathing because we need to be ready to roll. There's a reason why you get excited in these situations and a really excellent full loop example. How Don't comes together there. >> Yeah, I think one last little piece with that, too, is black. Tate has been shown and exercise of a specific lactate now to have been associated with BDNF, right? So that brain derived neurotrophic factor that exercise stimulates like Miracle Gro for the brain, >> and that if >> you're sitting around watching, you know, lecture for an hour, get up to ten SWATs. Walk around, and all of a sudden you have a renewed focus. And so with that to your point of it's all connected is you have an athlete who essentially is going to get a benefit from that. But we're also, you know, and there they'll never watch this, so I'll say it. I do planting that placebo. My burbage is really, really careful. And hey, just so you know, you wear this attempt ten, fifteen minutes before you do some ISOs, your ankle will feel better. It has an ability to mitigate. Think like him. Planting that sense of this is gonna work because we'll see Bo Effect works. We know it does. So there's a little bit of, you know, mix of art and science and how we imply these technologies and saying they like, Hey, Logan, just say no, you wear this before that game, your ankle will feel better. You're gonna feel looser, going to hell faster and just letting them roll with that and don't need to tell him anything else. And I think that to your point of it's all connected can then maximise whatever intervention you want to, then increase performance. >> Yeah, and I'll avoid a rant here. I'll keep it short, I promise. But what you hit on? Perfect. Especially since that. Look at some of studies regarding attendance, they'll look at it and see that the timid itself is healthy, yet they feel pain, and they've done lost studies where they're saying an external stimulus. So something like a metre gnome in the background going Ping Ping Ping and you're focused on the stimulus instead of the pain. And you now begin to de associate your knee with pain because the stimulus and regards to the tempo that's going on the background, you're doing it. Why didn't exercise So now? Because you're focused on this external stimulus fall during exercise, you begin to disassociate pain with your, you know, near tendon during that movement and just really shows how coupled the system is and how our brain talks your body body. And if we perceive that we're healthy right? You said, Oh, mixing the heart and the science while you're mixing the science of the science, right? Your you understand that perception is reality is not necessarily. We like to call it art because there's no number to put behind it. Really. It's, you know, the science that our body is deeply into connected and how are neurons from the brain talked to our muscles? Are muscles tough back to our brain are all essentially one and how everything from your nutrition, your perception to your stress from school, you're emotional state, whether you got a text message from someone that made you upset all effects, your internal load off the body itself. And regardless of what external only put and no matter how hard you want to work, if your internal system isn't able to handle the stimulus they're going to put on it in terms of the load you're going to give then what we're doing is it? It's really falling short of what we're actually trying to accomplish because we're essentially using external load to infer what's going on. But there's so many things that go on inside the body outside of external load that we're only using one system to monitor the internal system. We're kind of I was a falling short, but not maybe doing all that we can. >> D'oh Yeah, I mean, I think the you know not to rant myself, but that's one of the biggest mistakes that we as a sissy practitioners make, is the assumption with general adaptation Centrum theory that you're getting people and that they're adapting at the rate into the dose that you think is appropriate that we're making that assumption as to where they're at. So when we say, Oh, they're at home, you know, stasis. And we're going to apply to weeks of ah loading scheme, and then we're gonna unload, and then we're gonna push it higher because they're going to super compensate. I think that is a load of crap. I think that we want that to be the case because we want to feel justified and feel good ofwhat we d'oh. But in many cases, you really have to dial in all the factors associated with overreaching all the factors associated with performance and mix them and have checks and balances to see truly, if somebody is where you think they are and if you got them where they are and if not, what was the reason why was there an energy insufficiency? Was there a Micronesian problem? Was there associated stress damaging the functioning, The A access All those things have you know they come in to play, but we are so rigid and and a lot of our thinking me included Holy, guilty. This we work in four to six week block. So yeah, you know, my own load is gonna be a three week three. Well, maybe your own unload should be a week nine. You know, like, how do you know that they're not ready for Maura. Maura, Amore. Um, you know, so that I think that assumption of not necessarily taking into consideration that connectedness between all these systems Ah, can get us into trouble to make us have false positives. I think I think we really congrats pawn the stuff that's not there >> now, that's that's couldn't be said better because we like to make it simple, because we can understand Simple. And when we make it complex, we realize we don't really understand that much. But the more we appreciate as complex, the more we can appreciate how applying something simple, like we think a load ten push ups really isn't as simple as it may be. And that at times, can cause paralysis by analysis. Where you have so many things >> going on at once and to consider I'm not saying that we just sit there and measure every single subsystem. I know you're not either, >> but the idea that we need to appreciate that and see where can we maybe refer. Teo, Turn, Tio. That isn't just in the lane off. How much weight do we lift? How much low do we give someone But what other factors could be involved and that athletes life. That's not getting the results that we think this external load should be leading. Tio, it's a great check engine light, because now we have this external load. Hey, I expected to be here in three months, and you're not there. That's okay. Who knows whose fault it is? No one's. But the idea is that now we can turn different people because we didn't see the expected results. We can dive a little deeper, and that's allowing us to utilize our resource is whether it's a friend. You know, a doctor. You know, another practitioner, you know, to help arm us with the information to be the best that we can be. >> Yeah, I think that's what the external load comes in, right. You gotta know if they're not meeting expectations or the desired outcomes. No. Are they typically matching people in practice? You know that are similar positional demands. Are they typically being asked to do something that isn't looking normal? That would then we can kind of backtrack and see how they were doing it. What the fuck? Jack is associated with an internal load work, and again, we don't. We don't monitor everything. We don't think it's necessary. We try and find what's appropriate for his team and scenario. But I think again, if you're mindful and you know you're athletes and you know the scenario of what you're trying to put them in, you can then kind of use your your coaching, I to say, Okay, what are the things that I think may be influencing? Yeah, providing Malad a patient, you know, orange, the desired stimulus, you know, desired outcome. Now, what are we doing to them that we should be seeing or think we should be saying. And if I know them, what is essentially a confounding variable to that? >> Yeah, No, that's perfect. You don't assess everything. A because you can't and be known as time. But you assess what's pertinent and you're aware of what's apartment and you act out the check engine light and facilitate where you can now, well said, because I think both ends resettle. Let's be so simple and just do this or let's on Lee do this aspect over here. But when you take in consideration, all of it, you allow yourself to be the best you can be in your position that you're in because you're not trying to solve everything. You just try to facilitate where you can. Yeah, perfect for Chase. And I want to hold you up too long, and I really appreciate you being here. I want to wrap it up before finishing up here. I got, I guess, two questions for you. I didn't send them to you ahead of time so that I can if you don't have a quick answer, that's fine. The first one is it's pretty simple. I'm not going. I don't mean Resource is in terms of O go to Pub Med or go to this paper. But are there any individuals out there that you can possibly listen to or find that you have found the very informative and not just in terms of all that's good information, but sometimes change the way you think about how you do your job. >> I'm talking to you right now. It's a lot of my my thoughts and know how I address of, you know, some of the the bio mechanics and physics of what we're doing. You know, it's definitely not an area that I'm strong in, and I think you've done a great job of putting information out there for the public tio toe, you know, be able to digest an easy manner, man, you know, a public resource. You know, this may sound kind of cheesy and maybe a little bit of roast sci fi, but I still re t Nation and Goto like all those you know, you know, Jim Wendler sites and freed all the Westside stuff. And, you know, I think you can't isolate sports science and sail. It's just Dad are, Oh, it's just, you know, pumping out research out of the lab or Oh, it's physiology or urge technology. I think each practitioners gonna have their own flavour and what they like and what they bring to the table. And I think that we need to cater to that. Each person should say, Hey, this is what I'm good at. These are my skills. I want to learn more about tax and if X s o happens to be baseball and throwing and overhead athletes than you're going to find the Mike Ryan holds air crises and really dive into that. And if you want to know about traditional pure ization schemes and force plays, you're gonna look at the stone stuff. You're gonna look at half, you're going to look at people who are early pioneers in it. So I think, you know, I don't have ah, necessarily a one person go follow, but it's more of a question to the question is what do you want to know about? What do you like? What's something that's really really, you know, kind of hits the button for you and then just start Googling stuff start, you know, typing these these keywords in and people will start popping up. And I think that's my development has come has jumped. The greatest, I guess Leaves is when I started diving into these rabbit holes of what I want to learn about right now and just saying for the next two weeks, I'm going all in on, you know, let's see saturation lost muscle from Samo, too. You know, I'm just learn everything I can about my loving and hemoglobin and mad a crit and all that stuff. So it's really more about finding what you want to know at that time and just doing a deep dive and then finding something else, doing a deep that and before you know it, you're times years to that and you have a, you know, a well rounded hopefully, you know, face of knowledge to pull from. >> And my last question for you chase. And this might be a tough one for you to answer the that you are the ghost of social media. Yeah, That the king of the King of trolling my page. You know that you are interested. People are interested in following up on what you're doing. Where can they find more information about yourself? What links or handles either. Twitter, Instagram. Would you advise him to look up into and keep a tab on yourself? >> So the only thing I'm using, as I have on Instagram and at Underscore Chase felt so It's It's simple. It's like toe like to troll you and fight in every now and then. But, ah, that's basically what I got. I got a couple post up there. But maybe maybe if, uh, I get a little help, we'll see how it Ah, how it grows. >> Yeah. I highly advise you guys following him because we continue to push him to post more stuff. I shouldn't be the only one privileged to get his text messages at obscure hours, highlighting some interesting topics I would love for it to be shared publicly. So I'm not being the third party siphoning off his knowledge and posting there. Yeah, well, they could chase. I really appreciate you hanging here and be able to be our first guest again here. The reason why I wanted you on first you quite a bit played a big role in my development and continue, Tio. And we all wish the best for you. Um, it really was great to have you here and thank you. >> All right, man, I appreciate it was a lot of fun. >> All right. Awesome. Well, thank you guys for listening again. My handle here is strong. Sorry. At strong underscore by science. I did that all wrong. It's at strong. Underscored by underscore science. I should know my own handled by now. I use Instagram, I think my Twitter's handles at strong underscore science. Who knows? We'll make a link to it. We'll be sharing this podcast here shortly with different clips as well. For those of you who don't have the attention span to listen to an hour toy mint podcast will die some of this up. So thank you guys for listening. Really appreciate it and take care.

(electronic music) >> Hello and welcome to the Cube conversation. I'm John Furrier here in the Palo Alto studios with two great guests, Tara Chklovski, who is the founder and CEO of Iridescent and Anar Simpson, global ambassador of Technovation. First, thanks for coming in today. I appreciate moving your schedules around to come in. Thanks for coming into our studio. >> You bet, yeah. >> So Sundar Pichai was at your event. That's the big story this past week has been the Google memo from a low level employee who wrote some things that got the whole world shaking around gender biases, role of women in tech, and as we do a lot of women in tech as you know at the Cube. Hundreds and hundreds of women in over the years, friends, and also smart people. This is a pretty big moment for you guys. You had an event at Google. Sundar canceled his all hands meeting to address this under fear of retaliation and safety but came to your event on the Google campus. Surprising to many, as written up on VCode and the Verge. Pretty notable. So tell us about what happened. >> So this was the 2017 Technovation world pitch competition and the award ceremony and Sundar came and he talked to a lot of the girls who were presenting their ideas to solve problems in their community and then he had a little bit of a one on one conversation to learn a little bit more about the kinds of problems, their interest in technology, entrepreneurship, and then he addressed the crowd of 900 plus supporters and really reemphasized that there's a place for women in technology, and more importantly, for him and Google, that there's a place for these girls at Google. >> Talk about your mission. >> Right, so Technovation's mission is to empower girls to become technology entrepreneurs and it's much more than just learning how to code. It's really about telling girls that if there's a problem in their community, technology can help them have a very powerful voice. We've been running for eight years and Anar is our global ambassador who has helped us grow to more than 100 countries, but Technovation's relationship with Google is eight years long. Google has supported Technovation, was the very first technology company to support Technovation way before any other company saw the potential and since then, since 2010, Google has provided funding, mentors, spaces, not just across the U.S. but globally. >> Is it beyond entrepreneurship and beyond coding? Talk about specifically what you guys are bringing to folks outside of Silicon Valley. >> Oh, sure, so my role as the global ambassador for Technovation is really getting to girls all over the world and saying to them, you need to be engaged in technology. And what we found, as Tara mentioned, we've been doing this now, I've been doing this now for five years, is that we're building a movement. We're bringing in girls, we're bringing in mentors, we're bringing in companies and governments together to make this a reality for girls in tech careers in their own countries. >> What's some examples during your life when you had those kind of change moments? >> I think Iridescent, we are now in our 12th year, and every couple of months, it's a change moment because it's a test of grit and just believing in yourself because I started it with just an idea and grew it to be an organization that's all over the world and it doesn't come with just full hearted focus and a lot of courage is what I've seen, I think. I've also seen that how much you are passionate about an idea really swings how the other person is thinking and so the idea only matters so much, I think, of course I mean the track record and everything has to be there, but I think a lot of it depends on your own passion for it and I think I've come to realize that passion is maybe proportional to the complexity and the impact of the problem you're trying to solve, so if you're only trying to solve a small problem, you lose interest in two years. And maybe that's why, I'm always curious, like why do so many start ups fail after two or three years? It's because maybe you came in not thinking that you're going to change the world, maybe you came in because you wanted to make quick money or exit or whatever and so I think for me, it's this is my life's work and we want to bring more underrepresented communities into innovation, and so it's not something that is going to be solved easily. >> Let's get back to the Sundar event that you guys were at because I think it's a good conversation to have because one of the things that came out of the brouhaha that became that memo really was a conversation publicly. Now, it's been polarized here. There's just kind of a hate kind of mindset with it most of the time, plenty of stuff on the internet to go read through but there was actually some good conversations in the industry. What was the conversation like during the event because this was in full conversation mode while you guys were having your 2017 world pitch competition, which he presided over and had a speech to the entrepreneurs. What was it like? What were some of the conversations that were taking place? >> I think the most powerful piece of the whole evening was really the girls walking in and seeing the incredible diversity that we have in this world, right? So we had girls from and mentors and supporters from over 30 countries and just them coming and waving the flags and different faces and different cultures all trying to make the world a better place, I mean it's rare that you see that using technology and I think it's very fitting that Silicon Valley is the center of this, but I think there was not one dry eye in the group because you realize, the conversation is so much bigger than one company, one country. It is something that affects us as all human beings and you're believing in human potential so I think seeing these young girls, some of them 10 years old, there was this, I think, maybe the crowd's favorite was these 10 year old girls from Cambodia who want to improve the lives of these people working in cottage industries, right, and they created an app like say Etsy or something, but focused on Cambodian products and the courage of these little girls, I think everybody walks away feeling, okay there's hope. Even in the midst of all of this discussion. >> Yeah it creates a lightning rod in some ways and hopefully it will move on to the substantive conversations. How do you guys feel about what happened and as you take this mission forward? You guys are doing some amazing work, we'll do a whole nother segment, I think, that's on that in a minute, but given the landscape now, how do you view this and how are you talking with friends and colleagues and family members around it because I've certainly had conversations with my friends, certainly on the east coast, like no, no, that's not the way Silicon Valley is. Google actually is a very cool company, it's not exactly like what you think it is. They're very open. They support a lot of great initiatives and they're candid. And then I go on and explain, it's like a university, serene little area, have this little ecosystem, that they've kind of built a university culture, if you will. But it is open and there's things that happen that get misrepresented and that was my take. That's for the folks that filmed at Silicon Valley. But what's your take? What do you think about what's happening? >> So this is really, really good that you brought up the university campus environment. So I have two girls. They're both millennials and they're both in the tech world and we have this discussion and here is the perfect answer, right. So one of my daughters, Kat, she said that when she read that, she thought it was basically a gathering of his thoughts and it was a gathering of his thoughts because he was probably asked to adhere to I&D staff that's going on in every company right now, right, and so it was a little bit of a, wait a second, you know. He wants to sort of respond to his being asked to go to I&D staff and then Katia said, but you know mom, it was just a gathering of his thoughts and this is an essay, and it was a poorly written one, and if I was grading it, I would give him a C minus. Then my older daughter said-- >> Host: I would have given him an F on that one. She's generous. >> Because he did, he tried to make it very professional and very academic and she said but it was a first draft, he has not, he didn't proceed to toughen it up, solidify it, find more evidence, have it critiqued. It was just a gathering of his thoughts and he hasn't gone through the presses and both these girls graduated from Berkeley and so I think they would know what a C paper looks like versus an A paper. And then my older daughter said, and the other thing is, you know, it's not like I&D efforts are actually bad but what we're trying to do is we're trying to condense the time in which we're trying to get women at equal pairing in the tech world. Now, you know women have never been at equal pairing in many professions. They were not enough doctors, lawyers, accountants, you name it, right? Main Street, Wall Street has never had equality. And now we're looking at technology and the reason everything just flairs up in technology is because we live in today's world where news and information is available all the time. So there's two things going on. Information is readily available. People can come into the conversation very quickly and whenever anything happens in Silicon Valley, the effect is massive because all eyes are on Silicon Valley all the time. So it's a bit of a distorted view but we have gone through this. It took a long time for women to become astronauts. It took a long time for women to become neurosurgeons. It took a long time for women to become lawyers and dentists. It will take a little bit of time for women to become top technologists, but we're hoping that it'll shorten and things happen quickly in the valley and we're trying to get that quicker and so we're seeing a little bit of friction. This is responses from millennials so for me, it was like, yes. >> Host: Interesting perspective. >> Yes, great perspective, and when Sundar said these things at the world pitch, I was sitting in the second row and every time he said something I would clap real loud and Todd said, why are you being so good and I said I need to hear that, I need to hear him say that because-- >> Host: What did he say that moved you? >> Oh he just said, you know you have a place in technology and I said yes, we needed to hear you say that right away, all the time and especially to these girls, these eight to 18 year old girls, and all of the ones that come from 100 countries that weren't at Google but were listening to the live pitch. >> We seem to be going back to a crowd that wants to see respect for the individual and citizenship. These were company values at Hewlett Packard, when I was there, that I always remembered was unique. They go hey, you can have differences, but if you have respect for the individual and you have a citizenship mindset. That seemed to have been lost in tech. With this whole movement you see and win at all costs, being an asshole is what you got to do to be a CEO or flip it fast or bros program, so it became a very selfish environment. It seems to be shifting now, with this conversation. Your thoughts? >> So I have to say, doing a start up is not easy. Getting successful in this world is not easy. Shaking the status quo is not easy, so I have to say that the same people, and we're not going to name names, but the same people who are very arrogant and have little respect for the laws and rules, they have given us products that are changing peoples' lives. There is no question about it. Without their bravado, without their I don't care, I'm just going to go over you if you don't comply with me, a lot of ride sharing wouldn't even have happened, and to me, when you provide employment, when you provide alternative services, when you provide something that takes away the way things were, I see that as a plus. I think what we're seeing is that's needed to a certain extent and then you realize, okay now we have to get back to growing it and working it and if you keep going in that mode, you probably won't succeed. >> So being tough and determined and having grit is what you need to break through those walls as a start up. You don't need to be necessarily a jerk, but your point is if you're creating value. >> If you're creating value, and that sometimes you actually have to be a jerk because there are very few brave, non-jerk people who have gone against a big unions and big monopolies. Right, you and I, I would not be able to go against the taxi commission. You need somebody who is a complete a-hole to do that. And he did that and it made a difference. He doesn't have to continue to do that and that's the point. >> There's a meme going around on the internet, if you want to make friends, sell ice cream. >> Exactly! >> So you cannot always win friends when you're pioneering things. >> And you know, there is a balance and maybe we've fostered the fact that you need to be that attitude for everything and that's not true so the pendulum shifted a bit too much but I think that we shouldn't scorn them because really they have made a difference, let's just let everybody get back to-- >> Its a tough world out there to survive and you have to have that kind of sharp elbows to make things happen and it's the value you're providing is how you do it. >> Exactly. >> Well it's no secret to the folks that know me and watch The Cube and know the Silicon Valley that I'm a huge proponent for computer science and, you know, as someone who kind of fell into that in the '80s, it's now become very interesting in that the surface area for computer science has increased a lot and its not just coding and heads down and squashing bugs and writing code. There's been a whole nother evolution of Soft Scales, Agile, Cloud, you've seen a full transformation with the potential unlimited compute available, with mobile now 10 years plus into the iPhone you see new infrastructure developing so it creates the notion that, okay, you can bring the science of computers to a whole nother level. That must be attractive as you guys have that capability to bring that to bear in the programs. Can you guys comment on how you guys see just the role of computer science playing out and this is not a gender thing, this is more of, as I have a young daughter I try to say, it's not just writing code, you could certainly whip out a mobile app, but it's really bringing design to it or bringing a personal passion that you might have, so what are some of the patterns you're seeing in the surface area of what's now known as computer science? >> I think it's super important because as technology has progressed, we've been able to provide this program. If we were still programming in front of screens and doing the what you see is what you get kind of thing without, we would not be there. I think the big thing that's happened in the last 10 years is the mobile phone. I mean, if you find a girl anywhere today in the world, chances are she'll have a mobile phone on her and she's going to be loathe for you to take that one thing from her. You could take other things from her, but try taking that phone away from her. She will not let you. And so the fact that she's so attached to that mobile phone means that you can then tell her, hey, you don't have to be just a consumer of that thing, you can be a producer of that thing. Anything that you see on there, you can actually design. This is power. This is your thing to good and great and better. And if we can shift that in their minds that this is their link to the world that's wide open, we're seeing that. >> Well the world is consumed by it. I mean, a lot of women in the world will be consumers of product, certainly with AI, the conversation over the weekend I was having with folks as the role of women is super important not just in AI, but as software becomes cognitive, you have to align with half the audience that's out there. Must be hard for a guy to program something that's going to be more oriented towards women, but it brings up the question of application and whether it's self driving cars or utility from work to play and everything in between, software and the role of software is going to be critical and that seems to be pretty clear. Question is how do you inspire young girls. That's the question that a lot of fellow males that I talk to who are fathers of daughters and who are promoting women in tech and see that vision. What are some of the inspiration areas? How do you really shake the interest and how do you have someone really kind of dig in and enjoy it and taste it and feel it? >> So there is some research to back what the formula is that works to drive change in behavior and so there is, one of the biggest names in cognitive psychology is Albert Bandura. He's a professor at Stanford. But basically it's the same principles that drive, say, the addiction from alcohol or weight loss or any kind of new behavior change. So the first is you need to have exposure to someone whom you respect showing that this is something of meaning, and so the key words are someone you respect, right? And so media can play a very big role here, for scale, right, otherwise it's only maybe a teacher or a parent and if they're not exposed to technology they can't really affect your... And so media can play a huge role there. Second is the experience itself, like how do you make it easy to get started. And then it's like learning from video games, so you make it very, very easy, like the first step is just come over here, it'll be fun, there's pizza, come, right, like your friends are coming, but then the feedback has to be very fast, so the first step, and that's where your good curriculum matters. So that's where also working on a mobile phone is very appealing even though maybe apps is not-- >> Host: It's relatable. >> It's relatable but the feedback is instantaneous and so the programming language that the girls use is block based so even though you don't have any prior programming background, you can still build a working app, so that's critical. Then human beings get tired very easily and so the feedback needs to keep changing. It has to be unpredictable. The third piece is that of expectations. Sou have to have very high expectations and so that's why this current discussion around cognitive differences in gender, I feel is missing the point, because it's not what you're born with, what are you capable of? And so if we looked at our genetics, we would never go to space, we would never go to the deepest parts of the ocean, because we're not meant for that. But we had really high visions and expectations and so human beings rose to that. And then the last piece is less relevant in developing countries but it's still important, so it's sort of the human energy. We're not a brain disassociated from the body, we're connected, right? And so if you're hungry and tired and sleepy, not the right time to sort of make a dramatic change in you interests, so this is relevant like for us, we tried to figure out which countries are we going to work in, so post-conflict, war-torn areas are not the best areas to start a new program in. You need the right-- >> So you're saying the biological argument of, of course they're different, men and women, but it's the capability, that's where people are missing the boat. >> And the support system. So have high expectations, provide them with the right support, but the most important thing is your own beliefs in that. >> Let's get your thoughts on that 'cause I think you guys have a great program with Technovation, you mentioned mentors. Key part of the formula most likely. What we here, in the conversation I've had with women here has been, there's a real call to arms at the executive level now, folks my age in the 50s who made it, who were there, succeeding, they really want to give back and they really have recognized the value of having that peer mentorship and then inspiring the young generation, whether it's part of the things that we cover like Grace Hopper or Technovations, things that you do, or even just mentoring in their own communities. What does that mentorship look like that you guys see that you'd like to see double down on or areas you'd like to see tweaked or perceptions that need to change? What's your thoughts on mentorship and the role of inspiring young girls? >> Mentorship from men? >> Host: Men and women, I mean... >> From both? >> Well I see the mentorship with women, as that's the first step. I have a whole nother conversation, in my opinion, about the men needing training, not just like go to class and learn how to talk but how to empathize. >> Well my big thing has been that when you wanted to encourage women up the ladder in your companies or you wanted to encourage women to actually get in to technical roles, that intent should not be placed in the CSR department of your organization 'cause that speaks volumes, right? To say oh, well that's in the social responsibility department or the HR, that just says, okay, so you're not really, you don't think we're capable of helping you with your product or service, we're sort of part of this, and it's like, no. So I think you want to mainstream it, which is what a lot of I&D things are trying to do now. >> Host: Inclusion and diversity. >> Inclusion and diversity. >> To make it part of the fabric, not a department checkbox. >> Exactly. >> That's what you're getting at. >> Exactly and the involvement of these departments, to include everybody and to make it more diverse is going to be not frictionless. It will be friction until a time where it won't even be necessary. I&D departments should have one goal which is to work themselves out of a job. If they can work themselves out of a job, then the company would have done what it needs to be done, but I think-- >> Meaning it's self sufficient, it's self governing, people are humans, it's respect for individuals. I mean this just basically comes down to, if you look at it as humans, it takes it, every conversation could be tabled, that's what? There's a person on the other side, it's a human being, not a woman or a white male or whatever. They're not there yet, but I mean certainly that would be the endgame, so in that scenario, that department's out of business, the I&R, the inclusion and diversity department, has done its job. >> Exactly, you don't need one because you know you're okay. And I think capabilities is really important in corporations and this isn't anybody's fault, this is just how it's been done. This has just been the culture of it. Who gets invited to which meetings. Who gets invited to which conferences. And so we heard the CEO of YouTube, Susan Wojcicki saying, you know, she had to sort of elbow a little bit to say hey, why am I not allowed at a certain conference and it's like, maybe just wake up to that and say why aren't you involving more people at conferences and think tanks because, you know, I come from an oil and gas background and people used to do a lot of deals on the golf course 'cause oil and gas people play golf a lot and a lot of deals used to happen, well in the Valley we don't play golf a lot but we do do other things, conferences or get togethers, and if you don't include the people in your team as groups or representationally, well they're not going to be there when you make these decisions so maybe just be a little bit-- >> Exclusionary is a problem and Kleiner Perkins was taken to task, they had ski trips apparently planned and they did all mostly guys and they didn't invite the women part, there was a big scandal. This is where they make that, it's a normative thing and they've got to change the norms. >> Change the norms and if you actually want your company which is made of all kinds of people to move really far ahead, don't be like that. Include everybody because the only goodness about that is you'll go forward. If you don't include somebody, well you're going to hurt them. >> I want to add to that. So there's quite a bit of data. So the patterns are not anything different from what the message girls get from school and parents. So if you look at the data there are 100 countries that legally discriminate against women and so what message industry is telling, is really, firstly it doesn't filter through to the larger population. Silicon Valley is a completely different problem, but overall, the messages girls are given is like, this is not for you, and so especially in some of the most populous, dense countries of the world. And so we have to fight a lot of these kinds of perceptions from the ground up and the number one gatekeeper is the father and so a key part of what we've now done to date is to provide education and training to the parents because there's a very moving story that we work in a remote town in south India and a mentor who's very dedicated has been trying to get these girls to participate in Technovation. He did that and then one girl was actually offered a job but the father kept saying no, not needed, no girl in my family ever needs to work, but he fought it and so the girl actually gets a job. And then a year later, the father calls the mentor and said, you know what, I'm so grateful that you did it because a day after she got the job, I got hit in an accident and I lost my job, but it's these kinds of perceptions that have to be changed one person at a time which is what makes this very hard, unless you actually are able to get the media to change the messaging and I think in the U.S., which is, there's some very interesting studies and a question, right, like if you were to think, would there be more women in STEM in poorer, developing countries versus richer, highly developed countries. Where would you see more women in STEM? The answer is actually the women in the poorer countries like Iran, Malaysia. The reason is because in an individualistic society like in the U.S., where there's a lot of emphasis on materialistic but it's also about are you happy. The conversation has changed from parents telling children and do what makes you happy and then you are very prone to advertising and advertising works when it's highly targeted and highly gendered. And so in the 60s, there was no such thing as pink and blue. Now there is pink and blue. And so now we just made our entire society entirely susceptible to advertising. And girls are passive and complaint and boys are aggressive and so then when you're looking at the board structures, it's very, very hard to fix the problem right there. You have to go down deeper because you don't get leaders who are complaint. Maybe secretaries are compliant. But you have to fix the message that teachers give girls, that parents give their baby girls when they are born, and so industry is just sort of in the spotlight right now but the issue is not that of industry, I think it's also that of society. >> Industry, if you look at what Sundar is supporting you guys it's interesting that this industry seems to chipping and certainly Silicon Valley is a little different as you said, but in general, it is a cultural parent thing. Any plans there with Technovations to have a parent track? >> Yes, totally. I mean, I think, right now, 10% of parents actually volunteer to be mentors, kind of like girl scout troop leaders, and so we are trying to figure out, okay, what is a way to involve parents and to make them part of the discussion? >> Tara, Anar, thanks so much. This is The Cube conversation here in Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) >> Hello and welcome to theCUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier here in the Palo Alto Studios, with two great guests, Tara Chklovski, who's the founder and CEO of Iridescent, and Anar Simpson, Global Ambassador of Technovation. Thanks for coming in today. Appreciate moving your schedules around to come in. Thanks for coming to our studio. >> You bet, yeah. >> So Sundar Pichai was at your event. That's the big story this past week. There's has been a Google memo from a low level employee who wrote some things that got the whole world sharking around gender biases, role of women in tech. We do a lot of women in tech as you know in theCUBE, hundreds and hundreds of women over the years, friends, and also smart people. This seem a pretty big moment for you guys. You had an event at Google. Sundar canceled his on-hands meeting to address this, under fear of retaliation and safety, but came to your event on Google Campus, surprising to many. It's written up on Recode and The Verge. Pretty notable. So tell us about what happened. >> So, yeah, this was the 2017 Technovation World Pitch Competition and the awards ceremony. And Sundar came and he talked to a lot of the girls who were presenting their ideas to solve problems in their community, and then he had a little bit of a one-on-one conversation to learn a little bit more about the kinds of problems, their interest in technology entrepreneurship, and then he addressed the crowd of 900 plus supporters, and really emphasized that there's a place for women in technology, and more importantly, for him and Google, that there's a place for these girls at Google. >> Great timing for you guys too. And I want to drill more into what happened but I want to just point out this was a scheduled stop for Sundar in terms of it. You guys have a program called Technovation which was a 2017 World Pitch, folks around, you're the Global Ambassador, take a minute to talk about what Technovation is. Why was it on Google's Campuses? What was it all about? What does Global Ambassador mean? Talk about your mission. >> Right, so Technovation's mission is to empower girls to become technology entrepreneurs and it's much more than just learning how to code. It's really about seeing girls and telling girls that if there's a problem in their community, technology can help them have a very powerful voice. We've been running for eight years and Anar is our Global Ambassador who's helped us grow to more than a hundred countries. Technovation's relationship with Google is eight years long. Google has supported Technovation, was the very first technology company to support Technovation way before any other company saw the potential. And since then, since 2010, Google has provided funding, mentors, spaces, not just across the US but globally. And so this year, it was a year long worth of relationship made with code which is their arm focusing on gender equality. They basically provided funding but made this event possible at Google headquarters. >> Anar talk about the Global Ambassador role you have, and kind of comes down to the question for Tara as well, is it beyond entrepreneurship and beyond coding? I mean talk about specifically what you guys are bringing to folks outside the Silicon Valley. >> Oh sure, so my role as the Global Ambassador for Technovation is really getting to girls all over the world and saying to them you need to be engaged in technology. And what we found, as Tara mentioned, we've been doing this now, I've been doing this now for five years, is that we're building a movement. We're bringing in girls, we're bringing in mentors, we're bringing in companies and governments together to make this a reality for girls in tech careers in their own countries. And I want to go back and address Google's relationship with Technovation a little bit more because this is more of an anecdote. I got into Technovation not willingly. Six years ago I had a start-up, it was called Parallel Earth, and I was working hard at it. And I was using the offices at Mozilla because they allow people to do that, you know people like me to work there. And one day somebody sent me a note, it just came on the internal email system, and they said, "You're a woman, you're in tech, "there's an event going on at Andreessen Horowitz "where the luminaries of the Valley are going to be talking." And so the luminaries were Mary Samayo who was at Google at that time, Freada Kapor Klein, Padma Ashriwurier , and I think that there was two other people. And so we went to this event and we sat in a packed room at Andreessen Horowitz. And these women, the luminaries at the Valley at that time, each one of them stood up and told us their story, and afterwards they fed us hors d'oeuvres and offered us wine. And then they said before you go, we have one to ask of you which is could you sign up to be a mentor for Technovation. And I thought to myself, no, I am like over my head in my own company. I don't even have time for myself. And they asked, be a mentor, it's just two hours a week for 12 weeks. And I thought to myself, oh God, man, I drank their wine, I ate their hors d'oeuvres, I listened to them and now how can I say no? And so I signed up. And it was a stretch for me because what happened at that time, the curriculum was still being delivered by a person. And so I've been assigned to the Google Campus in Mountainview. And somebody in engineering at Google had been able to get a room, a very small conference room. And so for 12 weeks I met this team of girls from Mountainview, and there were other mentors like me, and then there was a whole bunch of girls from Sequoia High School. And John, in that 12 weeks, I was a changed woman. Those five girls, they blossomed under me. When I met them, I said to them, "I'm here, I am a type A, this is a competition." >> "I signed up for the Andreessen Horowitz--" >> Exactly, exactly. "Listen, I got my own star, "but we're going to win, this is a competition." So they just rolled their eyes at me, like, who the heck she is, we don't even want to be here. >> John: They draw the short straw on this one. >> Exactly. But those 12 weeks changed my life. >> John: In what way, what way did it change your life? >> I have a degree in Computer Science. I have a Master's in Communication. I went to Stanford for innovation and entrepreneurship. So I've been in the field for a very long time. And what I saw in terms of the curriculum, what I saw in terms of the mentorship, what I learned about design thinking and being able to create an app, I never had that. When people like me, we go in to a university, and doing computer, we never had that kind of stuff. And I thought, oh my God, if I'd had that, I would be, like, soaring the skies right now. And to have girls who really came to this table with nothing, and you see them becoming graphic designers because they had a little bit of access to Microsoft Paint, someone who has the ability to do PowerPoint, one girl, in my team of five, almost never showed up, she was late, she never came, and then two sessions before the Pitch, she showed up and she realized, have we've gone so far without her. So here's what she did, she took that little graphic that that woman who'd done it in Paint, and she got her mom and they went to some t-shirt shop, and they got that graphic printed. And the next time she came, there were five t-shirts that said the name of our team which was Intoxication Station, and one for me. And then it turns out she's a really good speaker. Who knew? So she almost never came, brought these shirts, was the speaker for the group, and we won the local competition and then the next one, then we placed second in the finals. >> She came in, contributed with a t-shirt, and graced you the back end, won the trust of the group, ended up being the speaker and winning the award. >> Yes, they grew, they literally, you know if you take a time lapse and you see a flower blossom, that's exactly what happened. >> Tara talk about your credentials 'coz you have a Ph.D. >> So I have a, yeah, Bachelor's in Physics, and Master's in Aerospace, and I was in the Ph.D. program in Aerospace but I dropped out because I wanted to start Iridescent. >> That's good. Dropping out of Ph.D. has a good track record. A lot of folks who dropped out of Stanford includes some of the big names we now know. What's some examples during your life when you had those kind of changed moments? >> I think, Iridescent, we are now in our 12th year. Every couple of months it's a changed moment because it's a test of grit. And just believing in yourself because I mean, I started with just an idea and grew it to be an organization that's all over the world. And it doesn't come with just full-hearted focus. A lot of courage is what I've seen. I have also seen how much you are passionate about an idea really swings how the other person is thinking. And so the idea only matters so much, I think, of course, I mean, the track record and everything has to be there, but I think a lot of it depends on your own passion for it, and I've come to realize that passion is maybe proportional to the complexity and the impact of the problem you're trying to solve. So if you're only trying to solve a small problem, you lose interest in two years, right, and maybe that's why, I'm always curious, why do so many start-ups fail after two or three years? It's because maybe you came in not thinking that you're going to change the world, maybe you came in because you wanted to make quick money, or et cetera, whatever. And so I think for me this is my life's work. And if you want to bring more and to represent the communities into innovation. And so it's not something that's going to be solved easily. >> Start-up success and then people working on teams, really is about inclusion and letting things bloom and being ready for anything. That's the greatest feat. Let's get back to the Sundar event that you guys were having. Now this is a good conversation to have because one of the things that came out of the aha that became that memo, really was a conversation publicly. And now it's been polarizing. There's just some kind of a hate, hate kind of mindset with it most of the time. Plenty of stuff in the internet to go read there, but what actually are some good conversations in the industry? What was the conversation like during the event? Because this was in full conversation mode while you guys were having your 2017 World Pitch competition of which he presided over and had a speech to the entrepreneurs. What was it like? What are some of the conversations that were taking place? >> I think the most powerful piece of the whole evening was really the girls walking in and seeing the incredible diversity that we have in this world, right. So we had girls, and mentors, and supporters, from over 30 countries and just them coming and waving the flags, and different faces, and different cultures, all trying to make the world a better place. I mean, it's rare that you see that, using technology. And I think it's very fitting that Silicon Valley is the center of this. But I think there was not one dry eye in the group because you realized the conversation is so much bigger than one company, one country. It is something that affects us as all human beings, and you believing in human potential. So I think seeing these young girls, some of them 10 years old, there was this, I think, maybe the crowd's favorite was these 10-year-old girls from Cambodia who want to improve sort of the lives of these people working in cottage industries, right. And they created an app, like, say, Etsy or something, but focused on Cambodian products, and the courage of these little girls, I think everybody walks away feeling okay there's hope even in the midst of all of this discussion. >> It creates a lightning rod in some ways that hopefully will move on to the substantive conversations. How do you guys feel about what happened as you take this mission forward? You guys are doing some amazing work. And we'll do a segment on that in a minute, but given the landscape now, how do you view this? How are you talking with friends and colleagues and family members around it? Because I certainly had conversations with my friends certainly in the east coast, like, "No, no, that's not the way Silicon Valley is." Google actually is a very cool company. It's not what you think it is. They're very open. They support a lot of great initiatives. And they're candid. And then I go on and explain. It's like a university. So me and Larry have this little ecosystem that they've kind of built the university culture if you will. But it's open and there's things that happened that get misrepresented. That was my take for the folks who don't know Silicon Valley. But what's your take? What do you think about what's happened? >> So this is really, really good that you brought up the university campus, environment of it. So I have two girls, they're both millennials, and they're both in a tech world. And we had this discussion. And here is the perfect answer, right. So one of my daughters, Kat, she said that when she read that, she thought it was basically a gathering of his thoughts. And it was a gathering of his thoughts because he was probably asked to adhere to I&D stuff that's going on, in every company right now, right. And so he was like a little bit of a, wait a second, he wants to sort of, respond to his being asked to go to I&D stuff. And then Katya said, "But you know mom, "it was just a gathering of his thoughts. "And if this is an essay, and it was a poorly written one, "and if I was grading it, I would give him a C minus." Then my older daughter said-- >> John: Oh, she'll give him an F on that one. >> Right. >> John: C minus, she's generous. >> No, because he did. He tried to make it very professional and very academic. And she said but it was a first draft. He didn't proceed to toughen it up, solidify it, find more evidence, have it critic. It was just a gathering of his thoughts and he hasn't gone through the process. Both these girls graduated from Berkeley and so I think they would know what a C paper look like versus an A paper. And then my older daughter said, "And the other thing is, "it's not like "I&D efforts "are actually bad, "but what we're trying to do is "we're trying to condense the time "in which we're trying to get women "at equal peering in the tech world." Now women have never been at equal peering in many professions. There were not enough doctors, lawyers, accountants, you name it, right? Main street, Wall Street has never had equality. And now we're looking at technology and the reason everything just flares up in technology is because we live in today's world, where news and information is available all the time. So there's two things going on. Information is readily available. People can come in to the conversation very quickly. And whenever anything happens in Silicon Valley, the effect is massive because all eyes are on Silicon Valley all the time. So it's a bit of a distorted view. But we have gone through this. It took a long time for women to become astronauts. It took a long time for women to become neurosurgeons. It took a long time for women to become lawyers and dentists. It will take a little bit of time for women to become top technologists. But we're hoping that it'll shorten and things happen quickly in the Valley and we're trying to get that quicker. And so we're seeing a little bit of friction. This is responses from millennials. So for me it was like-- >> John: Interesting perspective. >> Yes, great perspective. And when Sundar said these things at the World Pitch, I was sitting in the second row and every time he said something I would clap really loud. And Todd said, "Why are you being so good?" And I said, "I need to hear that. "I need to her him say that because--" >> John: What did he say that moved you? >> Oh, he just said you have a place in technology. And I said yes. We needed to hear you say that right away, all the time, and especially to these girls, these two 18-year-old girls, and all of the ones that come from a hundred countries that weren't at Google but were listening to the live pitch. And I needed to hear it. I'm a veteran but I needed to hear it because-- >> It's interesting too the narrative that the millennials and certainly the younger kids hear is an echo of what comes down. And, interesting, my son who is 15, at dinner last night said, "Dad, I'm a white male. "What does that mean?" >> Poor guy. >> Then I'm like, oh my God, he's a kid. So, again, things are shifting, they're out of context. Tara your thoughts on how this all evolves and the positive things that folks can do. What's your perspective? >> Yeah, I mean, I think, I had a lot of discussion with my husband yesterday on this because he's a white male, right? And, but also we have two daughters, right. And so there's this whole he for she campaign, right. And that I think like our conversation earlier, the discussion has to be very inclusive and you cannot polarize. And I think I have to be careful because, I mean, my passion is what drives the work because the work is hard, but I have to also remind that, okay, there's a whole another segment of the population that cares, right, and, so I think it's just constantly remembering these kinds of things. I think in terms of what the industry can do, I think the normal thing is that people are doing which is really well, investing lower in the pipeline, investing in young girls, and all of that kind of stuff, and also sort of the inclusion and diversity stuff in the workforce. But I think there are some other segments, other industries that we can learn from, and I think one very unique place is actually the aviation industry. But the experimental aircraft, so we're just aviation enthusiasts, right. And so they have this gathering, yearly annual gathering, and 600,000 people come from all over the world, the thing that makes it unique and there's almost equal representation, there are two things that make it very unique. First is the family affair. And I think the tech industry has done a very good job, sort of convening these developer conferences but they are closed and most of them are 100% male, right? I think there could be something there where the, again much more than a company, that the industry has to do. And to make it maybe not commercial but do it as a fun family gathering and not in Silicon Valley. And then I think the second would be to actually lean on the veterans of the industry to share their passion with the young ones. And I think one of the problems of technology is that it's moved so fast that it has become very abstract. And nothing is very hands on. If you open up something, you will not understand anything. And so what the aviation industry had done really well is to showcase the core fundamental principles of how these things work using the old airplanes, old engines, combustion engines. But you can see how things work, right, and so-- >> John: It's like kindergarten. >> Exactly, exactly, start that way and then you can go into the more complex. But I think there's a role for the veterans of the tech world to play here. And I think it's not just sort of gender but it's also maybe age and making it much more about the family, rather than just the developer in the family. >> Tara and Anar, you guys are inspiration. Thanks for taking the time. And I've had the, my age, luxury of spending nine years at Hewlett Packard company before, maybe these early 90s when Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard were around. And one of the things that really influenced me, and I think this is something that I see a positive light coming in this industry, to your point, about so much changes, is that we seem to be going back to a crowd that wants to see respect for the individuals, citizenship. These were company values at Hewlett Packard when I was there that I always remembered was unique. Hey, you can have differences but if you have respect for the individual, and you have the citizenship mindset, that seems to have been lost in tech, and with this whole movement you're seeing, win at all cost, being an asshole, what you going to do to be a CEO, or flip it fast, or programs. So it became a very selfish environment. It seems to be shifting that way with this conversation. Your thoughts? >> So I have to say doing a start-up is not easy. Getting successful in this word is not easy. Shaking the status quo is not easy. So I have to say that the same people and we're not going to name names, but the same people who are very arrogant and have little respect for the laws and rules, they have given us products that are changing people's lives. There is no question about it. With that, they're a provider. With that, they're sort of "I don't care, I'm just going to go over you "if you don't comply with me." A lot of ride sharing, wouldn't even have happened. And to me when you provide employment, when you provide alternative services, when you provide something that takes away the way things were, I see that as a plus, okay. I think what we're seeing is that's needed to a certain extent, and then you realized, okay, now we have to get back to growing it and working it. And if you keep going in that mode, you probably won't succeed. >> So being tough and determined and having grit is what you need to breakthrough those walls as a start-up. You don't need to be necessarily a jerk. But your point is if you're creating value. >> If you're creating value, and that sometimes you actually have to be a jerk because there are a very few brave, non-jerk people who have gone against big unions and big monopolies, right. I would not be able to go against the taxi commission. You need somebody who's a complete a-hole to do that. And he did that and it made a difference. He doesn't have to continue to do that and that's-- >> There was a meme going around the internet, "If you want to make friends, sell ice cream." >> Exactly. >> So you can't always win friends when you're pioneering. >> Right, right. There is a balance and maybe we've fostered the fact that you need to be that attitude for everything and that's not true. The pendulum shifted a bit too much. But I think that we shouldn't scorn them because really they have made a difference. Let everybody get back to-- >> It's a tough world out there to survive. And you have to have that kind of sharp elbows to make things happen. But it's the value your providing, it's how you do it. >> Exactly. >> Well thanks so much guys for coming up. Appreciate to spend the time to talk about your awesome event at 2017 World Pitch as part of Technovation where Sundar represented Google in your great program with young girls go over some tech books. Thanks for sharing. This is CUBE conversation here at Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with The Cube. We're in downtown San Francisco, at Zuora Subscribe 2017, about fifteen-hundred people according to David Gee, talking about the subscription economy. And a big part of that when you collect money, you got to collect the taxes. And we're excited to have Simon Geach with us. He's a VP of Sales Billing in Commerce Platforms from Avalara. Did I repeat that right? How do you pronounce it? >> Geach. >> Geach. No, Avalara. Did I get that? >> Avalara. >> Avalara. Alright, so welcome. (laughs) >> Thank you. >> Collecting taxes: everybody's got to do it, everybody's got to pay 'em. >> Not fun though. >> It's not fun, and not simple, right? And usually with sales tax especially, you got the state, you got the county, you got special assessments, you got this, you got that. So that's what you guys do. >> That's right. So, if you think about the subscription economy, one of the most important things in that is making sure that what's on the invoice is accurate for the customer, because of course, the subscription economy is built around that engagement through an invoice, and that can be the important document that a customer gets, as you're building that long-term relationship. So, ensuring what's on that document is accurate, including the taxes, is really important. And for some companies it can be actually fairly simple. But for a lot of companies, particularly as they're growing and expanding their business requirements, it becomes ever more complex, and the costs of dealing with it manually can really sneak up on you and start to increase, and before you know it you're investing a lot of time and resource in trying to manage it, with really no guarantee of accuracy, and then of course, there's the longer term risk that comes if you get something wrong, you miss a rate, there's a change in product taxability that you don't capture, you can get hit and penalized really heavily in an audit. >> Right, and then in the subscription economy there's a lot more transactions, right? So the opportunity to mess it up goes up dramatically. >> Exactly. Tax legislation changes really frequently. So if you're billing customers on an ongoing, constant basis, the need to be up to date with the latest changes is really important, because if you're not, and you miss it, it can cost you a lot of money. >> So where's the "they're" there? So if I, buying something on a subscription, which tax do I pay? Do I pay where my residence is? Do I pay where my phone happened to be when I said "go". Do I pay where my phone happened to be when the end of the month hit? I mean, what are some of the jurisdictional rules? >> Right, so if you think about, Colorado's a really good example of this. Think about Colorado's estate, it not only has state-level assessments, it has then county and city level assessments as well. So it very much depends on where you live. We could be neighbors, and you could pay 4 percent less tax than me, literally being next door to each other. Because tax jurisdictions don't correlate with zip codes at all, and people make the assumption that they do. So it's very easy for that tax rate to change, even across the street. So then you have to factor in origin rules, and destination rules. So some states have origin rules, and some states have destination rules, and some states, like California, have a combination of both. So you really have to have a way of capturing all of that and managing all of that, and as I said, as it gets bigger, and revenue for states is more of an issue, because they're looking to generate more and more revenue to deal with budget deficits, sales tax is a really easy way for them to do that, so the states are paying more and more attention to how accurate you are in doing that. >> And you got to have it right at the invoice, you can't go back and fix it after the fact, right? >> Well, you could, but then >> It's coming out of your, it's coming out of your pocket. >> Right, and if you get it wrong and you get assessed for the difference, it's coming out of your pocket potentially, or you're overcharging the customer, which the state doesn't care about, they just want what you've charged the customer. So being accurate with it not only optimizes the efficiency within your business, it also means your resources can actually be used for other activities, because sales tax compliance is just a cost of doing business. It's not going to help your business grow, it's not going to make your business more profitable. >> So, so, what's the smallest granularity that you look at then, when you're trying to figure out which of the many rules impacts the decision that I'm making? Is it zip code? You're saying it's even smaller than zip code? >> Yes, so we actually determine the tax rate, using a latitude and longitude coordinate, overlaid by a tax jurisdictional boundary of the US. And that's proprietary technology that we maintain. Then we overlay that with product taxability content. So, for example, in Kansas if you buy a Kit-kat, or you buy a Snickers, the Kit-Kat has a lower, or zero tax rate, because it has flour in it, the Snickers doesn't. So (laughs) if I'm in New York, and I sell-- >> More benefits to gluten-free, less tax! >> If I sell you a bagel in New York, and I don't cut it, it's tax free. If I slice it, it's taxable, because I rendered you a service. >> 'Cause one's a grocery item, and now it's like a restaurant item. >> So, the different tax rates apply just based on what you do with the product. >> And how do you capture that in your rules? >> So we have a content team of over 100 people who are managing state compliance legislation, and are working to ensure that our tax engine is always up to date, and we actually guarantee the accuracy of our calculations. >> Is it easier just to put a 20 percent flat rate and then you figure it out on the back end? (laughter) I mean, it's got to be amazingly complex, so you got people by jurisdiction, you've got it by state, you've got it by content type. >> You've got also special taxing jurisdictions, so if they build a new stadium, or a new transit system, the tax may apply for a period, and then go away again, so really having someone who universally can supply you with an engine that's going to take care of all that and update all of that, it not only helps your profitability, it also helps your customer experience, because you don't have customers ringing you, going: "Why have you charged me this?" >> Right, right. >> We automate everything about the returns and remittance process, and the exemption process on the back end as well, so it isn't just the way that we calculate, it's a full end-to-end process of remitting and filing those taxes, responding to tax notices, and then managing exemptions. So universally we can help people outsource this burden. >> So you guys do that for transactions regardless of whether it's subscription or not subscription, correct? >> Right, correct. >> So from your point of view, what's different now with the growth of the subscription economy? How does that impact your business, or does it, or does it just make more transactions, more complexity? >> Well, I think to your point earlier, about the fact that because rules change, and they're not uniform necessarily in the way they change, sure, if a state decides to change a rule, they'll publish a date when they're going to change the rule by, they're not always uniform. There's not always just one time a year when those rules change. And of course if you're a national company or a growing company, trying to stay abreast of that across the 45 states that charge sales tax can be really challenging and time-consuming and costly, long term or short term. So what we're doing, whether it's a subscription customer or not, is making that really easy for them to scale. So you think about a subscription customer, they want a scale, they want to a scale fast, the last thing they want to have to do is worry about how are they going to implement their tax policy. We take that away, so they can concentrate on growing their subscription base. >> Simon, I think you got great job security. (laughter) >> Death and taxes, right? >> Alright, well thanks for taking a few minutes out of your busy day, appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Alright, he's Simon, I'm Jeff. You're watching The Cube, from Zuora Subscribe. Thanks for watching.