>>We're back with the Cube's coverage of Von 2022 from the aria in Las Vegas, we're talking pure data protection and nobody better to talk you about that than pure storage. You can't miss these guys when they're around because the orange crush is here. Dave ante for Dave Nicholson, Michael Sonic is here. He is the vice president of global alliances at pure storage. Michael. Good to see you again. Thanks for the little golf. Appreciate joy Lee. Yeah, appreciate that. Hopefully you get out there my back and, uh, be seen. So how you doing, man? I'm doing face to face. >>It's wonderful to be face to face with the cube. It's, uh, always a pleasure to have the opportunity to spend some time with you. Good to meet you. Good to meet. You have the opportunity to get, spend some time together. You guys, um, it's just great being at a show my first one back. And so I'm, uh, you know, just feeling the energy from the room and, uh, just great to come in here and see the cube all lit >>Up. Yeah. Accelerate 2019 in Austin was an awesome event. And, and one of the last ones that we did before, you know, the pandemic for all of us, um, we did some obviously support for, for virtual. You guys are having another show finally face to face in June. So look forward to that. Got it. >>20 days, 21 days, >>We'll see you there. Right. So tell us about what's going on with Veeam. Give us the update. Yeah, >>Look, we're thrilled to be here as a sponsor for Veeam and for Veeam on, uh, this is a longstanding partnership, you know, us, right. So found in 2009 start shipping product in 2012, um, really disrupted the block storage space with an all flash solution. Yeah. And you know, it's, it's a success story in terms of company going from single product to multi-product to portfolio, to solution. And along that way, the data protection use case and workload has really come into the, you know, kind of center focus for us first with flash blade in the market, which is our unified fast file and object solution. And more recently with flash array C, which is our capacity optimized flash array for block storage, which is a great relationship with Veeam and an area where we've done some, um, significant, you know, joint engineering and the FAC, which is what we refer to it as. >>And the Veeam selling motion is extremely strong. Um, and you know, it's, it's solving a real problem and that is, you know, customers are increasingly being faced with these, um, tighter and tighter SLAs to ensure the availability of their data is there. And then there's also, you know, the, the security element. And I think a term that VES using here was cyber resiliency, which I like, right. I mean, you know, the, um, safe mode integration, which is our solution for IM mutability and, and for, um, anti ransomware or, or one step to take, to, to safeguard yourself in a, against a ransomware event. Um, you know, that those are great complimentary parts of us. And indeed, >>You know, Michael, I, I, I want to ask you about your shared vision with, with Veeam. I remember I was talking to cause on the cube. Um, it might have been a 2019. I can't remember. Might have been the year before that. No, I >>Think shorts or pants. >>Sorry. >>Was he in shorts or pants? He was in pants. >>Ah, okay. So I was pushing him on, well, why don't you do it this way? Why don't you do that? Why don't you do tiering all this stuff? And it just always came back to simplicity. He said, we optimize for simplicity over all this complexity and you know, we'll get the, the function through the ecosystem partnership. So is that the shared vision with Veeam? I mean, that, it's kind of, it's just work. It just works is their mantra. But, but talk about that shared vision as particularly as it relates to data protection and cyber resiliency. >>Yeah. Thanks so much for, for recalling that Dave, cuz it, it, we hear it constantly. It's it's in the, now that we're coming back to the office, it's in the hallways, it's out in front of conference rooms, you know, the, the elegance and, and the, and the, um, value and simplicity is everywhere inside of pure. Um, I would say it's part of our shared vision. I think it's customer centricity is at the core of what Veeam and pure, you know, has really fused us together. We're both global, you know, their history is European based and grew up out of there and then have succeeded in north America. Ours is absolutely north America based first on the west coast, then across the country. And then finally into Europe, more recently globally and, and, and a lot of growth internationally, including APJ. So it's customer centricity, it's global, it's the way we go to the customer. So a partner centric go to market motion is live and well in both organizations, uh, solution providers, MSPs, GSIs, you know, range of different ways to get to that customer. Um, and without a doubt, the customer experience is, is part of the, is part of the piece. And, and that's where our simplicity is, um, front and center. And, and I know vem is the same >>Dig, dig it into it. Go ahead. >>Yeah. Yeah, no. So, so out in the real world, are the conversations still about flash for backup and recovery convincing people that that makes sense or, or have we moved on to where now it's the pure flash value proposition BEC because people accept that flash makes sense. Where, where are we in the real world? >>Yeah, I, I think it's, it's different in different industries, different use cases, different workloads, different environments, and it's, um, part of a bigger story. But I think what, what is happening now is, um, we were before the inevitability of flash as the data center, primary storage solution, but now, like, I don't think anyone would debate that. Right. And, and I think now in data protection flash as a component to a robust, secure data protection, both as a target for backup and as a source of recovery is an inevitability to be part of that conversation. Flash is >>There, you guys like to be first at a lot of things, you know, gives you bragging rights, but it also gives you market momentum. Again, I'll pull it. My, my bag of pure memories. I remember meeting Scott Deason, who was the first CEO of, of pure, it's only been two to my knowledge, right. Scott was first Charlie G Carlo now, um, in, in, it was early days, it was 2009, like in an Oracle open world or something. And he was telling me about this startup that he's doing. And, and one of the things that struck me is the vision around the API economy, which was new at the time. It was like, well, okay, what's that? And that's really, what's, what's happened here. It's part of simplicity. It's part about ecosystem. We were talking about products versus platforms. You can't really have a platform unless you have an ecosystem. So where are we at today? How does that relate to your partnership with, with Veeam? Yeah. >>It, it's such a great recall on your part, you know, cause I think, um, we are a storage company. We do provide a raise in the wild, you know, over 10,000 customer, tens of thousands of arrays now. And you know, but at the core, it's the software that matters and, and that's really what drives the user experience. And we're proud to be, you know, the development partner on the universal storage API, the us API for Veeam, that is a essential ingredient to success for the joint pure and vem customer experience. It gives them that single pane of glass, that administrative view, where they're able to get the information they need on what's happening within their environment and be able to take corrective action. And, you know, we're very proud of all the tools that we provide our storage customers, but in a da in a data protection use case and workload, they want to put, you know, they want to go right to Veeam and, and have that be the source of truth. And that's where that API is so important. >>What, what's the story to customers, Michael, in terms of particularly cyber resilience, you've got obviously got a TCO play, simple equals lower cost. Um, you got really much tighter service level agreements and requirements now, um, the security, the storage and data protection and security space are kind of coming together. So what's the narrative for customers. Give me the pitch. Yeah, >>Look, I think, I think every customer today has an obligation to include security as a must have within their solution anywhere in the data center. And for us, it's, you know, simply put the combination of Veeam for data protection, with pure for FlashRay C or flash blade with safe mode, you know, which provides that imutability provides that customer with a safeguarded copy against bad actors externally to their organization, or was jointly developed with a customer to prevent the risk of bad actors inside of the organization. Um, city of new Orleans is one of the customer references that's up on, you know, the pure storage website, just a, a great, um, you know, story in terms of the city's ability to defend against ransomware attack, continue, you know, with continuity of essential services, police, ambulances, fire departments, um, all on the combination of pure and deem. And so, you know, a good, you know, example to pull that thread all the way through in terms of what the value proposition is. And then what's the experience for the customer when they are find themselves on the other side of that event. >>What's the nature of the partnership, um, with, with Veeam, obviously there's a go to market, um, are there, you know, solutions that you guys are doing together, engineering work that you're doing together? Can you explain that? Yeah, >>You bet. I mean, you know, these are two of, uh, I think high profile adjacencies in the data center, you've got your primary storage and then secondary tertiary, and you've got your data protection use case and workload. Um, with Veeam, we've got dedicated engineering to the Veeam partnership on the pure side, as a development partner for the us API, um, you know, is a, is a key piece we're integrated into what the support experience is like for the customer. And really trying, starting to challenge ourselves now with some of the leadership changes that beam's taken on and the opportunity to sit down and, and spend some time, you know, with the non and, and John, and really say, Hey, like we're at the core here, we've got an opportunity. Let's, let's open up some strategic doors and see what could be next. >>Well, Veeam Ising, there's no question it's kind of early Veeam was the wild west that's right. Course big parties are still, you know, the reputational, but, but as you think about these joint engineering and joint go to market and you talk to, to joint customers, where do you see sort of the future? I mean, I, I, you know, the ransomware stuff, obviously the pandemic was impossible to predict. I, I shouldn't say that a lot of people did predict it, but now that we see it, but now that you have some visibility on these permanent changes that are affecting CSO, buying strategies, data protection, storage, buying strategies, how do you see the future of this relationship? >>Yeah, look, I think, I think the, um, at the core we do what we do and we're focused on continuing to innovate and do it with excellence in everything that we do. Um, we measure ourselves rigorously against a net promoter score. It's a certified net promoter score. We're at 85.2 top 1% of all B2B. So >>Head of V even >>At the core, >>Barely at the >>Core it's, it's about that customer experience and customer satisfaction. Um, and, and so that's a, maybe a, a different way of saying we trust that our partners do what they do with excellence. And in the case of Veeam, you know, partnering around the data protection, use case and workload, looking at how that's evolving into holistic data management and hybrid cloud environment. Um, we see rich opportunity for us to continue the partnerships, strengthen it, learn and listen from our customers and our partners. And, uh, and maybe challenge ourselves to, to do some things a little differently uniquely along the way I talked >>To them. Oh, good. >>Yeah, no, yeah. You, you mentioned, uh, you mentioned something at the outset that lends a lot of cred, credibility to the pure story anywhere you seek to play. Um, you mentioned that he, uh, you know, founded in 2009 product shipping in 2012. Um, I remember that Dave's not old enough to remember that period of time <laugh>, but, uh, if you remember, um, violent memory was the king, they, they were, they were the ones to be. Yep. And you guys were quietly toiling in a bit of obscurity and people were asking, well, come on, come on, come on, come on, give us something, but you didn't until you were ready. So I've seen that methodical approach in every, in every step of the way as you've transformed from being a product into solution focus and partnership focus. Um, so what does that look like? Moving forward? You, you mentioned kind of getting ahead of the game in terms of all backups and recovery, uh, volumes being on flash. What does that addressable market look like to you guys in the future? How, how are you looking at that? Yeah. Is this just the beginning of a new thing that's gonna develop over time? >>Yeah, I think, I think it's a, is a great question. It's an insightful question. It's also a great way for me to plug accelerate in, in 20, you know, 20 days or so. Um, it's a great backdrop for pure to make some announcements in terms of what's next and, and, you know, and when we're ready to make them, you know, it's a good example. Um, but, but in direct answer to your question, you know, without a doubt, you know, the adjacencies between data protection, primary storage, secondary storage, the blurring that's happening within that, you know, based on the ransomware threats, based on, you know, other environments around cloud and, and how customers have learned from cloud experiences early on and applying those learnings, not just to demanding simplicity in their solutions, but demanding the ability for, you know, kind of the storage is code and, and to have that cloud operating model across everything that they do. And so, you know, I think those are at the core, some of the things that we think about in terms of what's next and, and, uh, and to do it with partners like beam at the forefront, as well as the voice of our customer at >>The forefront. And that's why I wanted to ask you that's great setup. Thank you, David. Um, so the port works acquisition was really interesting. We're at, um, in Valencia Spain, the cube is, uh, our, our colleagues are over there. Unfortunately, John furier couldn't make the trip, the vid hit him. Uh, but one of the conversations, the topic of conversations over there is, you know, shift left with the solar winds, hack the sensitivity around the software supply chain. We certainly talked about it last week at red hat summit. I haven't heard a lot about DevOps here, but it's sort of intrinsic that, that whole shift left component, that idea of not bolting on data protection at the tail end, actually shifting left means doing it in the development cycle, not throwing it over the fence, you know, to, to the operations people. What's that conversation like subsequent to the port works acquisition, which was very interesting. A small lever can go a long way. Can you give us the update there? >>Yeah. And first and foremost, I hope John's okay. Right? >>He is. He's doing well. Good, Mr. John, >>We do. And so, you know, I think the, um, the, the future of applications is really on center stage when you put port works into the conversation mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so as companies move like no, one's gonna develop applications today without a container strategy right related to that. And that's gonna allow for the applications to move and data gravity to really play a bigger role and pure feels confident in our ability to play a big role in that. And as those applications mature up the containerized curve, they're definitely gonna have data protection, data management, other fundamental things built into it in that shift left context that we're gonna be prepared to take advantage of based on the assets. We have >>The two hardcore engineering cultures, uh, that, that have momentum, uh, pure and, and Veeam. Michael. It's great to see you again. Thanks so much for coming to the cube. >>Uh, it's always a pleasure to be with you gentlemen, and, uh, great to meet you for the first time. Good to meet you, Michael. Look forward to seeing you the next time and, and thanks again. >>All right. You bet. All right, keep it right there, everybody. Thanks for watching. This is the Cube's coverage of vem on 2022. We're at the area in Las Vegas, and we'll be right back right after the short break.

(light music playing) >> Welcome back to VEEAMON 2022 in Las Vegas. We're at the Aria. This is theCUBE and we're covering two days of VEEAMON. We've done a number of VEEAMONs before, we did Miami, we did New Orleans, we did Chicago and we're, we're happy to be back live after two years of virtual VEEAMONs. I'm Dave Vellante. My co-host is David Nicholson. Eric Herzog is here. You think he's, Eric's been on theCUBE, I think more than any other guest, including Pat Gelsinger, who at one point was the number one guest. Eric Herzog, CMO of INFINIDAT great to see you again. >> Great, Dave, thank you. Love to be on theCUBE. And of course notice my Hawaiian shirt, except I now am supporting an INFINIDAT badge on it. (Dave laughs) Look at that. >> Is that part of the shirt or is that a clip-on? >> Ah, you know, one of those clip-ons but you know, it looks good. Looks good. >> Hey man, what are you doing at VEEAMON? I mean, you guys started this journey into data protection several years ago. I remember we were actually at one of their competitors' events when you first released it, but tell us what's going on with Veeam. >> So we do a ton of stuff with Veeam. We do custom integration. We got some integration on the snapshotting side, but we do everything and we have a purpose built backup appliance known as InfiniGuard. It works with Veeam. We also actually have some customers who use our regular primary storage device as a backup target. The InfiniGuard product will do the data reduction, the dedupe compression, et cetera. The standard product does not, it's just a standard high performance array. We will compress the data, but we have customers that do it either way. We have a couple customers that started with the InfiniBox and then transitioned to the InfiniGuard, realizing that why would you put it on regular storage? Why not go to something that's customized for it? So we do that. We do stuff in the field with them. We've been at all the VEEAMONs since the, since like, I think the second one was the first one we came to. We're doing the virtual one as well as the live one. So we've got a little booth inside, but we're also doing the virtual one today as well. So really strong work with Veeam, particularly at the field level with the sales guys and in the channel. >> So when INFINIDAT does something, you guys go hardcore, high end, fast recovery, you just, you know, reliable, that's kind of your brand. Do you see this movement into data protection as kind of an adjacency to your existing markets? Is it a land and expand strategy? Can you kind of explain the strategy there. >> Ah, so it's actually for us a little bit of a hybrid. So we have several accounts that started with InfiniBox and now have gone with the InfiniGuard. So they start with primary storage and go with secondary storage/modern data protection. But we also have, in fact, we just got a large PO from a Fortune 50, who was buying the InfiniGuard first and now is buying our InfiniBox. >> Both ways. Okay. >> All flash array. And, but they started with backup first and then moved to, so we've got them moving both directions. And of course, now that we have a full portfolio, our original product, the InfiniBox, which was a hybrid array, outperformed probably 80 to 85% of the all flash arrays, 'cause the way we use DRAM. And what's so known as our mural cash technology. So we could do very well, but there is about, you know, 15, 20% of the workloads we could not outperform the competition. So then we had an all flash array and purpose built backup. So we can do, you know, what I'll say is standard enterprise storage, high performance enterprise storage. And then of course, modern data protection with our partnerships such as what we do with Veeam and we've incorporated across the entire portfolio, intense cyber resilience technology. >> Why does the world, Eric, need another purpose built backup appliance? What do you guys bring that is filling a gap in the marketplace? >> Well, the first thing we brought was much higher performance. So when you look at the other purpose built backup appliances, it's been about our ability to have incredibly high performance. The second area has been CapEx and OpEx reduction. So for example, we have a cloud service provider who happens to be in South Africa. They had 14 purpose built backup appliances from someone else, seven in one data center and seven in another. Now they have two InfiniGuards, one in each data center handling all of their backup. You know, they're selling backup as a service. They happen to be using Veeam as well as one other backup company. So if you're the cloud provider from their perspective, they just dramatically reduce their CapEx and OpEx. And of course they've made it easier for them. So that's been a good story for us, that ability to consolidation, whether it be on primary storage or secondary storage. We have a very strong play with cloud providers, particularly those meeting them in small that have to compete with the hyperscalers right. They don't have the engineering of Amazon or Google, right? They can't compete with what the Azure guys have got, but because the way both the InfiniGuard and the InfiniBox work, they could dramatically consolidate workloads. We probably got 30 or 40 midsize and actually several members of the top 10 telcos use us. And when they do their clouds, both their internal cloud, but actually the clouds that are actually running the transmissions and the traffic, it actually runs on InfiniBox. One of them has close to 200 petabytes of InfiniBox and InfiniBox, all flash technology running one of the largest telcos on the planet in a cloud configuration. So all that's been very powerful for us in driving revenue. >> So phrases of the week have been air gap, logical air gap, immutable. Where does InfiniGuard fit into that universe? And what's the profile of the customer that's going to choose InfiniGuard as the target where they're immutable, Write Once Read Many, data is going to live. >> So we did, we announced our InfiniSafe technology first on the InfiniGuard, which actually earlier this year. So we have what I call the four legs of the stool of cyber resilience. One is immutable snapshots, but that's only part of it. Second is logical air gapping, and we can do both local and remote and we can provide and combine local with remote. So for example, what that air gap does is separate the management plane from the actual data plane. Okay. So in this case, the Veeam data backup sets. So the management cannot touch that immutable, can't change it, can't delete it. can't edit it. So management is separated once you start and say, I want to do an immutable snap of two petabytes of Veeam backup dataset. Then we just do that. And the air gap does it, but then you could take the local air gap because as you know, from inception to the end of an attack can be close to 300 days, which means there could be a fire. There could be a tornado, there could be a hurricane, there could be an earthquake. And in the primary data center, So you might as well have that air gap just as you would do- do a remote for disaster recovery and business continuity. Then we have the ability to create a fenced forensic environment to evaluate those backup data sets. And we can do that actually on the same device. That is the purpose built backup appliance. So when you look at the architectural, these are public from our competitors, including the guys that are in sort of Hopkinton/Austin, Texas. You can see that they show a minimum of two physical devices. And in many cases, a third, we can do that with one. So not only do we get the fence forensic environment, just like they do, but we do it with reduction, both CapEx and OpEx. Purpose built backup is very high performance. And then the last thing is our ability to recover. So some people talk about rapid recovery, I would say, they dunno what they're talking about. So when we launched the InfiniGuard with InfiniSafe, we did a live demo, 1.5 petabytes, a Veeam backup dataset. We recovered it in 12 minutes. So once you've identified and that's on the InfiniGuard. On the InfiniBox, once you've identified a good copy of data to do the recovery where you're free of malware ransomware, we can do the recovery in three to five seconds. >> Okay. >> So really, really quick. Actually want to double click on something because people talk about immutable copies, immutable snapshots in particular, what have the actual advances been? I mean, is this simply a setting that maybe we didn't set for retention at some time in the past, or if you had to engineer something net new into a system so to provide that logical air gap. >> So what's net new is the air gapping part. Immutable snapshots have been around, you know, before we were on screen, you talked about WORM, Write Once Read Many. Well, since I'm almost 70 years old, I actually know what that means. When you're 30 or 40 or 50, you probably don't even know what a WORM is. Okay. And the real use of immutable snapshots, it was to replace WORM which was an optical technology. And what was the primary usage? Regulatory and compliance, healthcare, finance and publicly traded companies that were worried about. The SEC or the EU or the Japanese finance ministry coming down on them because they're out of compliance and regulatory. That was the original use of immutable snap. Then people were, well, wait a second. Malware ransomware could attack me. And if I got something that's not changeable, that makes it tougher. So the real magic of immutability was now creating the air gap part. Immutability has been around, I'd say 25 years. I mean, WORMs sort of died back when I was at Mac store the first time. So that was 1990-ish is when WORMs sort of fell away. And there have been immutable snapshots from most of the major storage vendors, as well as a lot of the small vendors ever since they came out, it's kind of like a checkbox item because again, regulatory and compliance, you're going to sell to healthcare, finance, public trade. If you don't have the immutable snapshot, then they don't have their compliance and regulatory for SEC or tax purposes, right? With they ever end up in an audit, you got to produce data. And no one's using a WORM drive anymore to my knowledge. >> I remember the first storage conference I ever went to was in Monterey. It had me in the early 1980s, 84 maybe. And it was a optical disc drive conference. The Jim Porter of optical. >> Yep. (laughs) >> I forget what the guy's name was. And I remember somebody coming up to me, I think it was like Bob Payton rest his soul, super smart strategy guy said, this is never going to happen because of the cost and that's what it was. And now you've got that capability on flash, you know, hard disk, et cetera. >> Right. >> So the four pillars, immutability, the air gap, both local and remote, the fence forensics and the recovery speed. Right? >> Right. Pick up is one thing. Recovery is everything. Those are the four pillars, right? >> Those are the four things. >> And your contention is that those four things together differentiate you from the competition. You mentioned, you know, the big competition, but how unique is this in the marketplace, those capabilities and how difficult is it to replicate? >> So first of all, if someone really puts their engineering hat to it, it's not that hard to replicate. It takes a while. Particularly if you're doing an enterprise, for example, our solutions all have a hundred percent availability guarantee. That's hard to do. Most guys have seven nines. >> That's hard. >> We really will guarantee a hundred percent availability. We offer an SLA that's included when you buy. We don't charge extra for it. It's like if you want it, like you just get it. Second thing is really making sure on the recovery side is the hardest part, particularly on a purpose built backup appliance. So when you look at other people and you delve into their public material, press releases, white paper, support documentation. No one's talking about. Yeah, we can take a 1.5 petabyte Veeam backup data set and make it available in 12 minutes and 12 seconds, which was the exact time that we did on our live demo when we launched the product in February of 2022. No one's talking that. On primary storage, you're hearing some of the vendors such as my old employer that also who, also starts with an "I", talk about a recovery time of two to three hours once you have a known good copy. On primary storage, once we have a known good copy, we're talking three to five seconds for that copy to be available. So that's just sort of the power of the snapshot technology, how we manage our metadata and what we've done, which previous to cyber resiliency, we were known for our replication capability and our snapshot capability from an enterprise class data store. That's what people said. INFINIDAT really knows how to do the replication snapshot. I remember our founder was one of the technical founders of EMC for a product known as the Symmetric, which then became the DMAX, the VMAX and is now is the PowerMax. That was invented by the guy who founded INFINIDAT. So that team has the real chops at enterprise high-end storage to the global fortune 2000. And what are the key feature checkbox items they need that's in both the InfiniBox and also in the InfiniGuard. >> So the business case for cyber resiliency is changing. As Dave said, we've had a big dose last several months, you know, couple years actually, of the importance of cyber resiliency, given all the ransomware tax, et cetera. But it sounds like the business case is shifting really focused on avoiding that risk, avoiding that downtime time versus the cost. The cost is always important. I mean, you got a consolidation play here, right? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Dedupe, does dedupe come into play? >> So on the InfiniGuard we do both dedupe and compression. On the InfiniBox we only do compression. So we do have data reduction. It depends on which product you're using from a Veeam perspective. Most of that now is with the InfiniGuard. So you get the block level dedupe and you get compression. And if you can do both, depending on the data set, we do both. >> How does that affect recovery time? >> Yeah, good question. >> So it doesn't affect recovery times. >> Explain why. >> So first of all, when you're doing a backup data set, the final final recovery, you recovered the backup data set, whether it's Veeam or one of their competitors, you actually make it available to the backup administrator to do a full restore of a backup data set. Okay. So in that case, we get it ready and expose it to the Veeam admin or some other backup admin. And then they launch the Veeam software or the other software and do a restore. Okay. So it's really a two step process on the secondary storage model and actually three. First identifying a known good backup copy. Second then we recover, which is again 12, 13 minutes. And then the backup admin's got to do a, you know, a restore of the backup 'cause it's backup data set in the format of backup, which is different from every backup vendor. So we support that. We get it ready to go. And then whether it's a Veeam backup administrator and quite honestly, from our perspective, most of our customers in the global fortune 2000, 25% of the fortune 50 use INIFINIDAT products. 25% and we're a tiny company. So we must have some magic fairy dust that appeals to the biggest companies on the planet. But most of our customers in that area and actually say probably in the fortune 500 actually use two to three different backup packages. So we can support all those on a single InfiniGuard or multiples depending on how big their backup data sets. Our biggest InfiniGuard is 50 petabytes counting the data reduction technology. So we get that ready. On the InfiniBox, the recovery really is, you know, a couple of seconds and in that case, it's primary data in block format. So we just make that available. So on the InfiniBox, the recovery is once, well two. Identifying a known good copy, first step, then just doing recovery and it's available 'cause it's blocked data. >> And that recovery doesn't include movement of a whole bunch of data. It's essentially realignment of pointers to where the good data is. >> Right. >> Now in the InfiniBox as well as in InfiniGuard. >> No, it would be, So in the case of that, in the case of the InfiniGuard, it's a full recovery of a backup data set. >> Okay. >> So the backup software just launches and it sees, >> Okay. >> your backup one of Veeam and just starts doing a restore with the Veeam restoration technology. Okay? >> Okay. >> In the case of the block, as long as the physical InfiniBox, if that was the primary storage and then filter box is not damaged when you make it available, it's available right away to the apps. Now, if you had an issue with the app side or the physical server side, and now you're pointing new apps and you had to reload stuff on that side, you have to point it at that InfiniBox which has the data. And then you got to wait for the servers and the SAP or Oracle or Mongo, Cassandra to recognize, oh, this is my primary storage. So it depends on the physical configuration on the server side and the application perspective, how bad were the apps damaged? So let's take malware. Malware is even worse because you either destroying data or messing, playing with the app so that the app is now corrupted as well as the data is corrupted. So then it's going to take longer the block data's ready, the SAP workload. And if the SAP somehow was compromised, which is a malware thing, not a ransomware thing, they got to reload a good copy of SAP before it can see the data 'cause the malware attacked the application as well as the data. Ransomware doesn't do that. It just holds it for ransom and it encrypts. >> So this is exactly what we're talking about. When we talk about operational recovery and automation, Eric is addressing the reality that it doesn't just end at the line above some arbitrary storage box, you know, reaching up real recovery, reaches up into the application space and it's complicated. >> That's when you're actually recovered. >> Right. >> When the application- >> Well, think of it like a disaster. >> Okay. >> Yes, right. >> I'll knock on woods since I was born and still live in California. Dave too. Let's assume there's a massive earthquake in the bay area in LA. >> Let's not. >> Okay. Let's yes, but hypothetically and the data center's cat five. It doesn't matter what they're, they're all toast. Okay. Couple weeks later it's modern. You know, people figure out what to do and certain buildings don't fall down 'cause of the way earthquake standards are in California now. So there's data available. They move into temporary space. Okay. Data's sitting there in the Colorado data center and they could do a restore. Well, they can't do a restore. How many service did they need? Had they reloaded all of the application software to do a restoration. What happened to the people? If no one got injured, like in the 1989 earthquake in California, very few people got injured yet cost billions of dollars. But everyone was watching this San Francisco giants played in Oakland, >> I remember >> so no one was on the road. >> Al Michael's. >> Epic moment. >> Imagine it's in the middle of commute time in LA and San Francisco, hundreds of thousands of people. What if it's your data center team? Right? So there's a whole bunch around disaster recovery and business country that have nothing to do with the storage, the people, what your process. So I would argue that malware ransomware is a disaster and it's exactly the same thing. You know, you got the known good copy. You've got okay. You're sure that the SAP and Oracle, especially on the malware side, weren't compromised. On the ransomware side, you don't have to worry about that. And those things, you got to take a look at just as if it, I would argue malware and ransomware is a disaster and you need to have a process just like you would. If there was an earthquake, a fire or a flood in the data center, you need a similar process. That's slightly different, but the same thing, servers, people, software, the data itself. And when you have that all mapped out, that's how you do successful malware ransomeware recovery. It's a different type of disaster. >> It's absolutely a disaster. It comes down to business continuity and be able to transact business with as little disruption as possible. We heard today from the keynotes and then Jason Buffington came on about the preponderance of ransomware. Okay. We know that. But then the interesting stat was the percentage of customers that paid the ransom about a third weren't able to recover. And so 'cause you kind of had this feeling of all right, well, you know, see it on, you know, CNBC, should you pay the ransom or not? You know, pay the ransom. Okay. You'll get back. But no, it's not the case. You won't necessarily get back. So, you know, Veeam stated, Hey, our goal is to sort of eliminate that problem. Are you- You feel like you guys in a partnership can actually achieve that. >> Yes. >> So, and you have customers that have actually avoided, you know, been hit and were able to- >> We have people who won't publicly say they've been hit, but the way they talk about what they did, like in a meeting, they were hit and they were very thankful. >> (laughs) Yeah. >> And so that's been very good. I- >> So we got proof. >> Yes, we absolutely have proof. And quite honestly, with the recent legislation in the United States, malware and ransomware actually now is also regulatory and compliance. >> Yeah. >> Because the new law states mid-March that whether it's Herzog's bar and grill to bank of America or any large foreign company doing business in the US, you have to report to the United States federal government, any attack, same with the county school district with any local government, any agency, the federal government, as well as every company from the tiniest to the largest in the world that does, they're supposed to report it 'cause the government is trying to figure out how to fight it. Just the way if you don't report burglary, how they catch the burglars. >> Does your solution simplify testing in any way or reduce the risk of testing? >> Well, because the recovery is so rapid, we recommend that people do this on a regular basis. So for example, because the recovery is so quick, you can recover in 12 minutes while we do not practice, let's say once a month or once every couple weeks. And guess what? It also allows you to build a repository of known good copies. Remember when you get ransomeware, no one's going to come say, Hey, I'm Mr. Rans. I'm going to steal your stuff. It's all done surreptitiously. They're all James Bond on the sly who doesn't say "By the way, I'm James Bond". They are truly underneath the radar. And they're very slowly encrypting that data set. So guess what? Your primary data and your backup data that you don't want to be attacked can be attacked. So it's really about finding a known good copy. So if you're doing this on a regular basis, you can get an index of known good copies. >> Right. >> And then, you know, oh, I can go back to last Tuesday and you know that that's good. Otherwise you're literally testing Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday to try to find a known good copy, which delays the recovery process 'cause you really do have to test. They make sure it's good. >> If you increase that frequency, You're going to protect yourself. That's why I got to go. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBEs. Great to see you. >> Great. Thank you very much. I'll be wearing a different Hawaiian shirt next to. >> All right. That sounds good. >> All right, Eric Herzog, Eric Herzog on theCUBE, Dave Vallante for David Nicholson. We'll be right back at VEEAMON 2022. Right after this short break. (light music playing)

>> Announcer: From around the globe, It's theCUBE, with digital coverage of VMworld 2020, brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of VMworld 2020, our 11th year covering VMworld, the global experience, so we get to be able to pull in the community from around the globe. Happy to welcome back to the program one of our CUBE alumni, but a new role. Jill Stelfox, she is the chairman and CEO at Panzura. Jill, so nice to see you. Thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> All right, Jill, so first, before we get into kind of what you're bringing to Panzura and the direction, we're here at VMworld. Panzura is a longtime partner of VMware. Why don't you just give us the update as to VMware and Panzura and how you support customers together? >> Yeah, so most of our deployments of Panzura actually run on VMware, whether it's on-prem or at the closest cloud location. So we work really closely in our hundreds and hundreds of deployments across the world. >> Wonderful, and for most of our audience, if they're not familiar with Panzura, of course, it's very high performance, really look at that cloud file system. Is that how it's positioned on your website? Bring us as to what brought you to Panzura, and what that means to the organization now that you're chairman and CEO. >> Yeah, so about five months ago now, we purchased the company from the current set of investors. We saw a really interesting technology here, and the ability to grow quite quickly, which, honestly, it's come true in the last few months, and Panzura is more than just a file system. It is a piece of fabric that allows you to put files in a really high performance way into the cloud, and collaborate across the globe, and who knew that five months ago when we bought the company, literally we bought the company a few days before California closed for COVID, and so this is the moment where file storage and collaboration is absolutely key, so great timing for us from that perspective. >> Yeah, absolutely. We've had so many conversations with companies as they have to really move fast, to be able to exist in the, I guess we call it the new abnormal, Jill. Help us maybe, if you've got a customer example of what's bringing the customers to Panzura, especially right now when there's acceleration of cloud, it's the theme we see, and the keynote here at VMworld and beyond, but what is it that differentiates Panzura and brings customers to you? >> Yeah, so we work, for example, with one of the largest banks in the world that took a legacy wire transfer application and put it out into the cloud, because they had no way of managing both the volume of transactions and the breadth worldwide that they needed in order to manage that application, and it would have taken years to rewrite that in a cloud native app, and putting it on Panzura works great. We also work with architecture firms, some of the largest in the world, where they're able to collaborate on building buildings all from home, which is pretty amazing, and then I would say the last, and maybe the coolest, is what we do in entertainment. We work with a large majority of the gaming companies, and they use Panzura to run all their files and collaborate on those really large games where they can code across the world, and then in the case, we just announced a partnership with the New Orleans Saints, where we're taking all their game day footage, and making it available to all their constituents quite quickly, and the big difference in all of those examples from other solutions, and what we do at Panzura, is that in other solutions, you have to duplicate that data across the world. We don't. We provide one single file, one single source, that's kept securely all the time and available all the time. >> Jill, help us understand how this fits into the cloud environment. So we talked about your VMware connection. I know Panzura is in the AWS marketplace, lots of discussions, AWS, Azure, even Oracle Cloud as to how it fits there. When I think about storing things in cloud, there's some of that just global replication that can happen, or how it can access it. Help us understand really the added value that Panzura has, and why that's important for that New Orleans Saints example that you talked about. >> Yeah, so one of the great things about the way that we handle data is you don't have to duplicate it. We just do snapshots, and it's there and available when you need it. The really important thing about putting this much data, very large files in the cloud, is you need to be able to manage your costs and also where you put it. So let's talk about cost for a second. Being able to have a solution that automatically manages cash versus S3 and longterm storage, that's one of our key, we have 34 patents or something like that. It's one of our main claims to fame is that we can absolutely do that, and that reduces the costs longterm of your storage in the cloud. That's one of the big deals. The other is look, AWS, pick Google, pick Azure. You likely are using more than one cloud, and we have a full hybrid solution. It can mirror what you have going on within your cloud or across clouds, which is perfect. >> Yep, maybe it would help if you dig in a little bit there. When people talk about hybrid cloud, they talk about multicloud. Often the red herring gets thrown out of portability. When we're talking about large data sets, we know we're not moving it. I mean, AWS has the big boxes they can ship you, or have a truck come to your facility to move it, but most customers, wherever you create your data, you tend to want to keep it there, but it's managing my data and fitting across these hybrid environments, or I'll have my data application in one cloud, I'll have a transactional application in another cloud. What are you seeing from your customers out there? How are they dealing and managing this overall cloud environment that they end up with? >> Yeah, it's actually really interesting, because I think the expectations from users day to day is that the cloud works exactly like your laptop or desktop would work in your office environment where you can seamlessly go between an Outlook 365 to a Dropbox. Each of those are on different cloud environments. They're different in terms of how they work, but from a user perspective, you want no latency and immediate access to your data. Well, the cloud doesn't really work like that, and so you need something like Panzura to be the system in the middle, the fabric in the middle that connects all those things together, so that when you want to reach for your big CAD drawing, and pull that, it's going to pull just as quickly as an email from Office 365, and you, as the user, don't need to know whether you pulled that out of cash, because it's a file that's used quite often, or whether it was over on S3 and in longterm storage, or longterm or cheaper storage in the cloud, and I think it's interesting, because a lot of people, we, by the way, work with a lot of customers that do move their data around. They have petabytes and petabytes of data, and they do move it around based on cost and availability, and we can do it all in the background, and as a user, you would see no degradation in legacy or in latency, and you would see no legacy data gone missing, which is kind of cool. >> Jill, it really sounds, David Floyer on the Wikibon team, writes about the hybrid and multicloud environments, and he says we've got these planes. So if you think of the networking planes, people in VMware will say that the vision that Nicera originally had, and MSX has, is that interconnective issue for the networking piece. It sounds like you're doing very much the same thing on the data layer to be able to sit on top of the storage, but provide some consistency in books. I know Panzura has been around for a while. Are there certain use cases that are kind of bubbling to the top? You mentioned things like collaboration, being something that, of course, is very active here in 2020, but if there's some of the, a couple of use cases that bubble up for you as to key things that customers are driving forward today. >> Yeah, I would say two main use cases in the last five months. One is, there is, sadly, dealing with a global pandemic isn't enough. We're getting ransomware at a higher level, and if you've got Panzura, and the way in which we take snapshots and we store your data, you can have a ransomware attack, and we've seen it with a number of our clients during COVID. You simply, in minutes, re-install a snapshot, and off you go. You didn't lose a thing and you can completely ignore ransomware, which has been really great for the folks that have had that installed. The second is the need to collaborate at the bitter end, people's houses. So this is one of the great things about working with VMware is we can put a VM certainly on-prem, but we can put it in your nearest cloud. So, for example, let's say you're using AWS, but the closest place to a particular group of people's home is a Google area. Fine, put it in Google. It won't matter for our deployment, and so you can get those files really quickly at the very edge, and being able to deploy it on VMware just makes it even faster, so. >> All right, Jill, as you said, you've been on for five months. What should we be looking at from Panzura through the rest of 2020? Give us a little bit as to your vision, and what we should expect to see. >> The company is growing really quickly. We've invested a ton of money in our sales partners and customers. So since I've been here, we've literally grown our revenue about 65%, and so that's been super fun. Also, we're investing heavily in R&D, and you're going to see some fun things coming from us on the R&D front about how to really support this data services layer that's coming, and the kinds of information that we all need to get about what's going on in the cloud and our ever-important data, so excited about that. >> Wonderful, we always love VMworld's one of those times where people go through the show floor, and they're like, "Okay, wait." You're hiring, what positions you have, any key things that people should be looking for? If you say, "Hey," what are you looking for when it comes to new talent for Panzura? >> Yeah, so one of the best things about, by the way, new talent for Panzura is that we use Panzura to run our company, and so you can work anywhere in the world, or live anywhere in the world, and work for us, and we're looking for development talent at all levels. We're looking for sales help at all levels, and honestly, there are some internal roles as well, so you can definitely come to our website and see all of those. We're very excited about the growth and hires. >> Always good to see that growth. Jill, why don't you give us a final takeaway that you want people to have about Panzura, what you're seeing from VMware customers these days, and help us get the final takeaways? >> Yeah, so what we enjoy about Panzura and VMware is really being able to deploy some of the largest companies in the world, whether it's federal government, or a very large worldwide enterprise, and if you are looking for a common fabric that allows you to deploy across clouds, we are your choice. >> Jill, thank you so much for catching up. We need to bring you back. Jeff Frick's going to want to talk to you more about the technology and football. Glad to see that you're still plugged in with those as we knew you were. Jill Stelfox, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Stay tuned for more coverage from VMworld 2020. I'm Stu Miniman, and thanks as always for watching theCUBE. (bright music)

you live from Miami Beach Florida 2019 brought to you by V we're back this is the cube the leader in live tech coverage we're here in Miami this is a wrap of v-mon 2019 two days of coverage I'm Dave Volante with my co-host Peterborough's our third year covering v-mon we started in New Orleans we've seen you know veeam go from what they called at this show act one to act two and we talked two years ago about you know to the our first V Mon about the ascendancy of Veeam being so tightly tied to the rise of virtualization and now we heard this year act to being cloud multi cloud and we heard a number of announcements that are in support of that we're going to talk about that but Peter there were three key announcements this week one was the the billion dollar you know milestone they actually you know they finally hit a billion dollars I've been talking about it for a while it's now official billion dollars on a trailing 12-month basis they're a profitable company veem and a focused billion dollar yeah I think that's really a very focused I mean they do some M&A but not a lot of M&A and that's because of NIH I mean you know these guys they trust themselves to write code it's also it's also sustained that simple value proposition right and that's a in a fundamental Dogma I think I think it's fair to say we we heard the announcement of the the the with Veeam a API infrastructure which which is key we're going to talk about that we I think there were two companies they announced partnerships with Nutanix with mine and exa grid both taking advantage of that there will be others can ring doll just told us you know maybe 10 to 12 it's not going to be an enormous number at least for secondary storage yeah but and but that'll knock down a large portion of the infrastructure market and then a Veeam availability Orchestrator version 2 which allows you to do if fast backups recover from from backups without having to go to a replicated you know off-site and some other capabilities they call the dynamic documentation and automating testing and some DevOps capabilities so you know the people seem pretty excited about that it wasn't a sea of announcements like you see it some of these things which I think Peter talks to the degree of focus that you were just mentioning you know they're not about your bragging rights and the number of announcements that they can make you know it's really all about extending that platform a lot of incremental announcements ratmir told us not a big roadmap company even though he did show a roadmap today but the roadmap he showed was a lot of near-term functional improvement so very function rich you know the the tagline of it just works but um let's see I think there's the first time you and I have done v-mon together I've been here your impressions look I love wandering the halls and talked into the actual attendees and seeing what they have to say so I spent about an hour hour and a half just doing some work in one of the hallways here and one of the reasons I do that is because it's an opportunity here with the attendees and the customers are talking about and what's important to them you've got a lot of these shows and everybody's buzzing about one or another product announcement you go here and everybody's talking about the problems that they're solving and I think that one of the reasons why we didn't have this frenzy of product announcements like we have in so many other places because the focus is though because a lot of companies want the focus to be on them I think what we heard here or what I heard here somewhat different was again customers trying to solve the problems and Veeam creating an opportunity for them to talk in terms of some of the new directions and some of the new products that being are being introduced but the focus stayed on the customer and the problems of trying to solve and that's that's what to my mind that's what successful companies focus on yeah and I come back to this notion of the with Veeam the whole API integration cloud hybrid cloud the edge V wants to be and they've laid they laid this vision out you know certainly last year and even started the year before of of essentially being that that that backup capability data protection capability across wherever your data lives you know on from in cloud now they really are focused on on backup and data protection they even say backups where it starts a lot of other companies like don't even use the term backup no it's not about backup it's about data management and data protection so it's interesting that veem is really focused on on backup and when you do what you did and talk to the customers what do you use the V for backup backup backup backup and so so they're not over rotating to that vision now they're many of their competitors are going hard after that and doing some great great marketing so the competitive dynamics are very interesting now you got cohesive e you got rubric doing really well with positioning as a modern architecture in veeam definitely not a legacy company their business is growing you've got you've got CommVault you've got Dell EMC Veritas IBM you know trying to hit single-digit growth trying not to decline I mean IBM in particular declined and then and really had to do a deal with CAD illogic to stop veem from eating its market share that's really what that deal was all about you saw Dell EMC kind of take its eye off the ball when it merged with with Dell EMC you know it was the leader in in purpose-built backup appliances it's made some announcements recently to try to get you know it's got some really good start back in the game right so you know you don't ever count those guys out Comicon vaults approached it differently they've got a large install base you know Veritas went through private equity and so they had some some other challenges but again they're investing and so it's a big market you know people are gonna go fight hard for it and then and then with with the outside funding that's come in it's really up the game now a lot of that funding is gonna go to promotion which again comes back to your point about focused R&D really really important to focus R&D on things that customers want that you're gonna solve a business problem so if you go back and just just to take your segmentation and we can kind of look at it in a couple of perhaps simple ways you've got you've got you've got veem and companies like beam who saw the hole virtualization and the need to do a better job of supporting and protecting and and replicating and backing up virtualized resources all hitting the market pretty hard and then you have the Delhi MCS and a lot of the other companies that you mentioned trying to sustain or keep pace with those guys and then you have the new guys the Dhruv is and what not are we talking about just cross cloud multi cloud backup on top of that you have and something we talked about with a couple of guests the security guys are looking at this and saying wait a minute you know data is data and protection and security are going to be increasingly difficult to separate because data is going to move and I have to be able to move security with the data it's going to be an inevitability it's we're talking about a cloud that allows us to more do more distribution of data because we're gonna do more distribution of work and the security is gonna have to move for the data so the security guys are gonna get in this the networking guys are gonna be asked some questions about the opportunity you got the old guard who is more focused on devices and managing and backing up devices trying to get back in you got the new guys you're saying let's let's lead the the the act to before you know the veins get there it's gonna be an extremely complex market but all of its gonna boil down to this simple fact I'm gonna distribute data in response to the work that needs to be performed and how am I going to manage the digital assets that I have to make that easy so that it doesn't explode and all of these companies at some point kind of the next phase of this is going to be on protecting data but can I turn it into a digital asset so here's what I saw I saw them talking about the idea of you know what we're gonna protect locally I'll suggest it over the course the next couple of years it's going to be we're gonna do you know data asset management with protection with where the actual act of protecting it is similar to the act of defining it as an asset so being able to you know use a a snapshot for a lot of different uses already happening now but adding services you know a consistent set of services on top of that through with veem and other resources allow them to do that and then move more of that what's today regarded as replication function into that protection side of things a lot more support for locally because that's where the services are going to become having the services are not having the services it's really going to be an essential question because we're gonna move more of this data out to where the work is going to be profound we often talk about customers having to place bets but but the the the vendors are having to place bets as well they're obviously betting on multi-cloud but but juxtapose for example what themes doing it was interesting to hear ken ring doll he answered your question about whether it was em through M&A and he answered in an M&A context but or maybe organic development around more security functions and he kind of said Never Say Never but really focused the team the engineering team is really focused on backup and data protection and what they call data management juxtapose that now with way say for instance what a daydream is doing X data domain guys built their own file system trying to bring both primary and secondary stores together yeah and which I like and I think it's really powerful themes taking a different approach they're saying and with with VM api's we're gonna partner with pure we're gonna partner with with Cisco we're gonna partner with Nutanix so different approach and they're gonna obviously you know claim the same capability hey we can do that too you know date tree I'm saying well we can do that too with just one mousetrap you know the integration points etc so it's gonna really be interesting to see how that all shakes out that that word seamless you know I said it sometimes triggers me if it really is seamless you know theme has a go to market advantage relative to you know the the Swiss Army knife approach if it's not seamless then you know ad atrium approach will have an event it's from a product standpoint you and I both know there's so much more to success than just having a great product absolutely you know and mentioned it but but here's you know it's interesting one of the thought about what will the roadmap the practical roadmap because FEMA's altered its roadmap in response to customer demand quite frankly very successfully and and and and you know you got to applaud him for doing so but one of the things we heard was it look we don't want we don't want to over promise on the engineering front because you've got a certain number of Engineers and a certain engineering capacity focus them on things that are creating value to the problems you're trying to solve the same things true within a lot of user shops you don't want to throw a whole bunch of new function to new requirements and a bunch of guys who are still themselves trying to evolve from backing up devices to now actually protecting data and and so there's a there's a natural evolution that's going to take place and I and I think veeam that's done a pretty good job of keeping their finger on what that pulse is it's it's what can be invented but also what can be innovated if we think of innovation as the customer adopting and applying it and betting it and changing their activities around it and I think themes done a pretty good job of navigating you know that what can customers really do right now not getting too far ahead so a lot of these guys that the natural tendency that you come from a product perspective and you say put more into the product and you know get the better check marks and you know have the better it's better statute is better factsheet and I think Veeam is taking a simpler approach almost an apple like approach is an enterprise sense and saying look give them what they can a candle give them what they can use give them what's going to generate value and as they master that give them a little bit more it reminds me of is you said Apple it reminds me of early EMC days when EMC brought out you know it's symmetric it was it would connect you know AIX solaris unisys obviously the IBM mainframe it had all the optionality all the connectivity and that's kind of what would be and then the features that it announced were really practical they clearly solved the problem now since then you know MCS evolved into the checkbox so we have more features than anybody that's what happens when you everybody wants right you have the customer base everybody wants and they say check we have that thin provisioning we have that too and you know we're gonna freeze the market that's the you know much more mature company in their defense it's also in response to an increasingly specialized and complex customer base they're trying to cover all the base and you know competitive guys eating that they're absolutely absolutely and the sales guys saying hey we need something and they've done a great job of doing that but but Veeam is very very focused on the optionality in four years they they wouldn't talk about bare metal and a couple of years ago would beam on the big thing was hey we said for years that were only virtualization well guess what now we do bare metal that was sort of the one the big announcement one year so they're they're very judicious about how they allocate their R&D you know capital and in you're seeing that you know translate into function that actually gets used actually give yeah I think it's a key point I think your analogy with EMC is actually really good Dave because if you go back thirty years when the EMC first started getting going what was the problem controllers on mainframes and mini-computers were getting incredibly complex it's you know the Daddy controllers and the amount of processing that was being put into that in the microcode was just overwhelming most people's ability to deal with it and so MC came along and said well if that's the problem can we fix it we put cash in that'll just make this whole system simpler and then they stayed true to that for a number of years and they turn into a beer mark and it's interesting I think it is a good analogy because what is the problem the problem is data's going to be more distributed it's going to be more central to a company's mission it's gonna be used by more functions and repurposed into more applications that have a greater diversity of RTO and RPO and as a consequence they're saying they seem to be saying we're going to do our best to pose much function to that protect side of things local as we possibly can so that people who aren't PhDs in computer science to perform a real business service by making all that stuff work and then will at the same time work very closely with third parties who can bring specialization of that secondary storage to bear as the specialization increases because it's going to increase and the other the other you know China MB a case study example that I would point to is the early days of Veritas when Jim when Jeremy Burton was running Merrick marketing it Veritas II sort of coined the language Jeremy calling the no hardware agenda a pure software a lot of function and they you know rose to a couple of billion dollar you know in revenue you know very very successful now have the big install base that everybody wants to eat it's just again reminiscent the pure software company they're not shipping boxes they're not shipping appliances they're they're not selling direct their pure channel play there's a big tamp to just continue to do virtualization like the big question is are they going to will their focus on what they're currently doing translate into focus on multi cloud and here at this conference they're claiming yes we've heard nothing that suggests that they won't be able to but there's a lot of new players out there who are looking at that space and saying you know what I can do that too and there's gonna be a lot of invention a lot of investment and you know there's good reasons to suspect it beans gonna be able to evolve successfully but there are a few areas where I think they're gonna have to focus more time in the big part of a CEOs job is Tam expansion and you know right now there are you know a billion out of fifteen let's call it so there's a long way to go but as you point out that multi-cloud appears like it's gonna be lucrative and there's a lot of different companies coming at it from from different angles you guys tell me we look at it is this big blob yeah this is gonna be incredibly specialized very fragmented I mean you got Cisco coming at it from a networking perspective RedHat coming from a past perspective Google you know partnering everybody Amazon right now ignoring it but you guarantee they're gonna be awesome and Microsoft has to be in it because of the huge estate of on-prem you know software and there's a dozen security guys are gonna be looking at this and saying oh look data in motion that's my service now is going to get its pieces so very interesting how that's all gonna shake out it's okay so wrap it up Peter you know kind of summarize your thoughts on the space v-mon so first beam on for me a lot of customers that we're talking about solving complex problems during their digital business transformation that's always good to hear got to a billion dollars that's a great milestone for any software company good reasons is the fact that beam is going to evolve into a company like Veritas like one of the big guys this is a company that's got legs and I think that the final one that I'd say not got legs but that they've got what it takes to be able to affect this transition they probably got the execution chops look we had a user on here who effectively said if you're not using if you're CIO and you're not using veem you're not competent and you know he said that that's not that's not a bad testimonial when you come down to it yeah and then the one thing that we have not talked about which is it shines through is culture yeah you know this company has a culture that is a winning culture it's a fun culture there's an accountability associated with it and and very customer orientation solutely up so that's the winning formulas have been fun sort of watching these guys grow and interacting with a number of their customers and you saw you saw a couple years ago Veeam saying okay we're going Enterprise so I ain't so easy there's just say we're going enterprise but in interestingly even though they've somewhat retrenched from that messaging they're having success in the enterprise clearly with their partnerships with guys like HPE at Cisco and NetApp and and others and so they're just gonna let it bake a little bit and go from there position of strength which is that you know kind of s in an MB do more simply with your protection environment is not a bad story a company of any size right right and okay Peter hey you spent great working with you thank you and thank you for watching guys great job awesome go to Silicon angle comm you'll see all the news the cube net is where we host all these videos and you'll see wiki bond comm has all the research Peter recently wrote a great piece on on data protection and how that markets involving check out our Twitter at the cube and at the cube 365 Twitter handles you'll see all kinds of clips coming out of this show and other shows let's see where we got a lot coming up good for you and what do you think so I think you're seeing as I said before a very practical approach to gaining foothold and in maintaining and growing in a market I like the business model this this company has been somewhat opaque you know european-based you know the Russian founders but and and most of us businesses outside of the US and and I think they're really coming into the mainstream now and Cube helps make it more transparent yeah absolutely and right because you can ask the questions of people and you know you get you get all kinds of different answers so and we're able to have you know independence on you know guys like Justin the firm's like the four five one guys that you know Gartner coming on and and it's fun to have those guys so so it's been great thank you for watching the cube go to the cube dotnet check out the events that are coming up we got a huge huge season May and June or our busiest months take a slight break in July although you know we'll be cranking this summer as well so thank you for watching everybody we're out Dave a lot day for Peterborough's we'll see you next time

you live from Miami Beach Florida Biman 2019 brought to you by beam welcome back to Miami everybody this is the cube the leader in live tech coverage I'm Dave Volante with my co-host Peter burst we're wrapping up day two of v-mon 2019 and so we've been talking about cloud hybrid cloud data protection backup evolving to more of an automated data management environment can bring dollars here and he is in charge of really building out the VM ecosystem that he's the vice president of global alliance architecture at VM Kent great to see you again thanks for coming on yeah thanks Dave preciate so the ecosystem is evolving you know you're in a competitive marketplace but one of the things that differentiates Veeam is you know billion dollar company and people want to do business with your customers and so the ecosystem keeps growing and growing and you guys have some you know blue chip names at the top of your sponsor list we do a good job but you're not done yet so not at all and I think Dave you know it's it's really great to see how v-mon has evolved and you know in our partner ecosystem you know we have you know you talked about us hitting a billion dollars you know we rat marinelle's we hit 350,000 customers that customer number is a huge asset for us when we talked to our partners you know that is something that they're all trying to tap into right they love you know and our customers are really passionate and we have partners that come to us and they say hey look you know and that you know the bigger partners than us and they're saying hey will you please work with us will you please you know we want to do deeper integration because our customers you know are saying we're Veeam customers and and you you know you know mister partner you have to go work with teams so that so that our solutions will work better together so it's a it's a great asset to us yeah and it's it's evolved since you know it's just certainly just the first Vemma and I was at the very first one I think was we were talking was at the Aria whatever it was five years ago so so you know ecosystem is I think Jason Buffington was quoting Archimedes today and you know livre and and that ecosystem is is you know a huge opportunity for growth ok so let's get into it well first of all I want to ask you if time was interesting global alliance architecture yes so we're not talking technical architecture necessarily we're talking about what the architecture of the ecosystem or both yeah so some money you know my role my responsibilities and what my team looks after is everything technical related to our partners so veem we're a hundred percent is fee and you know ratmir and aundrea to co-founders and leaders to the company you know that that's something that they take to heart and it's something that's actually really valuable when we talk to our partners is we don't really overlap very much especially with the infrastructure partners that we have and so you know my job is to take the great products we have and make it work really well and go deep with our partners so create value with these partners there's sometimes their product integrations storage snapshot integrations we announced the width beam program two weeks ago we are together at that next with the rest of your team talking about Nutanix mine with theme which is a secondary storage integrated solution so all of those that's all part of my roles so solution architecture and product integrations you know through our partner ecosystem which which is very broad it stretches from storage partners to platform partners to other is feeds like Oracle SAT even healthcare partners yeah Peter we were excited about the width Eames stuff dat who is with Fein yours with Vemma yeah so my team is responsible for the overall architecture with Vemma it's it's really a joint collaboration within within Veeam so we have an R&D investment that's building the intellectual property that powers the you know the system under the covers my team's responsible for the broader architecture how we bring it together how we bring it to market through the channel right and and and how we bring it to our customers and that whole experience so my team is is intimately involved in that so a lot of people talk about inflection points in the industry and clearly were in the middle one way of describing it is that the first 50 years were known process unknown technology we never gonna do accounting we knew are going to do HR where you were going to do blah blah blah blah blah and there was mainframe client-server with a lot of other stuff but the whole notion of backup and restore and data protection grew up out of the complexity in the infrastructure as we move forward it's interesting because it's known technology it's gonna be cloud relatively known yes but what's interesting is we don't know what the processes are gonna be we don't know what we're gonna automate we don't know how we're going to change the business it's all going to be data driven which places an enormous burden on IT and specifically how they use data within the business so I'm gonna ask your question it's a long preamble but I'm asking the question I asked you out in there too and this is not the test but the question is look as we move forward as data is used to differentiate a business it suggests that there's going to be greater specialization in how data use is used which could and should lead to greater specialization in the role that veem and related technologies will play within the business and the question then is is the with veem approach a way to let allow innovation to bloom so that specialization can be accommodated and supported within the VM ecosystem yeah so yeah Peter good question and so I tell you that the short answer is yes the longer answer is I wasn't shorter than the short answer is yes the longer answer is it doesn't have to be with Veeam but really our goal and and what we want to empower our partners and so really the goal of with Veeam is hey we're already working across our partner ecosystem and we you know we work with with the likes of NetApp and HP and pure and Nutanix and you know and all the platform providers as well public clouds you know our goal is is to make VM ubiquitous and drive better value to our customers and through our partners right we need partners no matter what when we're working with a customer there's always there's always a workload we're protecting and we need a place to land our backup so no matter what we're always working with one or two partners in a deal and sometimes it's multiple because then you TR out to cloud storage and in other places you know with with veem what we're trying to do is is really simplify that process for customers and so make that process from the buying experience all the way through the delivery and the deployment and the management and the ongoing management day 1 and day 2 operations we want to make that all seamless and give them higher value now one thing we're looking to enable and by adding api's with veeam is we want to leverage the strengths of the partners we have and so you know I often end up in these discussions because we have a broad partner ecosystem we've already announced - with VM solutions we have a third that you know we did last year with Cisco that's in the market that's sort of similar in nature and we're gonna add more and you know the question our partners even ask us is you know you already got three of them why are you gonna add another one you know how am I going to differentiate and the answer is you know they differentiate with their own technology and and the idea is we have these open API so that they can they can build their own solutions they fit different markets and fit different use cases some are small small customer solutions some are enterprise but our goal is to enable them to be creative and how they build on top of eeeem but but have you know Veen be a core part of that solution rather so so it is a core part of solution yes apply to specific customer absolutely okay so the term seamless always you know triggers me in a way because seamless is like open right it's evolved over time and so what was seamless you know 10 years ago wasn't really seamless in today's terms so when you talk about seamless we're talking about if I understand it deep engineering right getting access to primitives through api's and creating solutions that are differentiable as a function of your partner's core value proposition and obviously integrating with meme with 350,000 customers so you're now in the ball game with with Veen customers so so so talk about the importance of api's and how that actually gets done yeah and seamless to whom to the partners to the customer to ultimately it's to the customer boom but but but there's got to be an ease of integration as well with the partners and I'd like to understand that better yeah absolutely so I'll give you an example of something we've done in the past that's that we're trying to model this with veem program after so but a year and a half as part of our 9.5 update 3 we introduced what we call universal storage API and we've talked about our version 10 there were five core features of version 10 when we announced that two years ago in New Orleans you're the first time you were you were with us at a v-mon and one of those was Universal storage API and what that means is you know we help we help our partners we help our customers ultimately by way of our partners on the primary side of integrating storage snapshots with vmware vsphere and so when we when we go to backup a vm we take a snapshot of that vm and with this with our storage snapshot integration we then take a storage snapshot of the volume that vm is on and we can release that VM where a snapshot very quickly so it's very low touch and low impact on the environment well we we introduced this API so that we could scale we had we had done our own storage snapshot and integration with you know call it 5 or 6 storage vendors over the previous seven years eight years right in the last year and a half we've added seven right and that's the scale we're talking about and allowing our partners to build the storage snapshot plug-in together right so we have a program we invite them into that program we collaborate on it they develop the plug-in we jointly test it and we release it and so we're trying to sort of take and that's been very successful as I said eight years five or six storage snapshot vendors year and a half we've done like another seven or eight so it's been very successful and we have more that are in queue so we'll be talking about more of these as time goes on in the very near future with the width beam program we're looking to do something very similar it's gonna be an invite-only program realistically the secondary storage partner is this the universe is probably 20 the logical universe for us is probably 10 to 12 so it's not going to be huge but it's gonna be impactful for our partners and so we'll invite them into the program we'll have an agreement of us working together we'll jointly develop and test it and we'll bring it to market together at the end of the day you know both our partner and veem we have our name on it and I'm sure you heard from rat mayor and Danny and others right we have our NPS score which we really really value and it's really high it's best in the industry and if we're putting our name on a solution in the market we also want to make sure that we're working on it together in it you know it really goes through the rigor of what it takes to bring a Vemma solution tomorrow actually you know what nobody's talked this week this week about the NPS core if they maybe they have in the keynote so that it might have missed it but well I was in the keynotes what is it today well yeah so so an NPS score is basically you know from from 0 to 100 it's it's you know we'll a customer reference you or recommend you right right and so ours is 73 ok the industry the the general average in in in our space is about 28 to 30 so we're about 2 and a half times that that's core you know and that's in Frank Zubin said to me one time it's easy to have a high NPS core if you're a one product company but you're not a one product company no no we've we've evolved substantially I mean you know we've we've added agents to cover physical workload we've we've added cloud support we've added other applications we've added veem availability Orchestrator we've added beam backup for office 365 we have VA C which is the availability console for our service providers which has cloud connected it's a very broad portfolio everything comes back to beam backup and replication as the flagship foundation but we have all these other products that that now help our customers solve their problems the reason we were so excited about this with wid theme is this notion of cloud and hybrid cloud and you talk about programmable infrastructure you really have been pushing just bringing the cloud experience to your data talking about that for a while and part of that has to be infrastructure as code and it can't really do that without open api's and this sort of seamless integration well the cloud is testing us with you as well the cloud is a really an architecture for how you're going to distribute work as opposed to how you can centralize Handicap I think for a long time we got it wrong it's all presumed and it's all gonna go to the center we're in fact when you get that level of standardization and common conventions and the technologies are built to make a tea that much easier it allows you to distribute the work a lot more effectively get the data closer to where the works going to be done and that is enormous implications for how we think about things but it also means that we when we talk about bringing the cloud to the data that the data has to be there the data services that make that data part of a broader fabric have to be there and it all has to be assured so that the system knows something about where the data is and what services can be applied to it in advance of actually moving the workloads that suggests ultimately that the technology set that veem is offering is going to evolve relatively rapidly so the whole notion of you know with V today for secondary storage but I could see that becoming something that you guys take two new classes of data service providers pretty quickly I don't want you to pre-announce anything but what do you think yeah Peter I think I think you're really on to something and when we when we sort of look at the worlds right the infrastructure world were in you know and and certainly some of our partners would draw a slightly different picture but we see Veen as as the common thread in the middle right because at the end of the day and I think you mentioned it as you were just talking there you know when we talk about hybrid cloud right we see now our customers especially commercial and enterprise and large enterprise customers it is it is a very heterogeneous environment it's multiple hypervisors different storage platforms it's multiple cloud providers because they're picking best to breed for the workload and so they need a platform that's got really breadth in depth of coverage and so the the one common thread we weave between there is Veeam right so if if we are that data protection layer as I mentioned before you know we're in the middle we're protecting a primary workload and we're writing our data to a secondary workload but in the middle is Veeam and so that workload we're protecting on Prem cloud secondary data centers theme is the thread in between there you can move that data around and wherever that is we can make use for now I'll give you a good example today you know let's say we're protecting a visa or workload on Prem right we back that up to it to assist them locally so we can have fast restore but ultimately we tear that out bean cloud tier capacity tear tear that's AWS so we can we can actually recover workloads in Atos one or two we have directory store which would take a backup from on-prem and directly move it there for DRAM migration purposes or we can simply consume that that backup that's now up in the cloud because Veen backups are self-describing we can lose the system on Prem and recover it so your point about making the data close to your workload with with veeam in the middle we enable that for our customers regardless of where they want to go yeah so we think that that's going to change the mindset from protection to assurance so assure your data is local and then it's the right data it's Integris and all the other things and then ultimately you know move it and back it up to some other site so it's but it's a subtle switch it's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out this is obviously well and as we talked about as you need to begin to protect things like containers like functions that come and go super quickly assurance has more meaning because there's the security threats and if you can help solve those problems through your partners through automation spinning containers up and down making it harder for the bad guys to you know a target a specific container raising essentially the cost so lowers their ROI that is a new game yeah and and I'll call out one thing a rat mayor I thought did a really good job on stage yesterday in his keynote he popped the slide which talked about the universal storage API and with theme and it had all our partners sort of around that you know that that I think he Illustrated our strategy which is hey we're focusing on the core parts of backup and replication and helping the core parts the data protection we're gonna partner with everything else that's adjacent to that we're not going to go solve maybe some of the security problems ourselves we're gonna enable some hooks secure restore maybe as an example we've announced you know in the technology keynote yesterday we announced a new API that allows partners to come in and crack open Veen backups and take a look at them one of the things could be deep inspection so you know our strategy and our goal is really to be open to our partners so that they can come in and add value and again our our goal for our customers is give them choice so give them choice of to choose best-of-breed solutions don't go do it and say hey you got to go use partner a you know hey we're gonna we're gonna have an API that others can build to and you go choose your best debris partner or your platform technology choice well and with 350,000 customers you've got a big observation space so guys have always been customer driven can give you the last word on vivant 2019 you're our last guest then we're gonna wrap with a little analysis on our end but give us the bumper sticker yeah I think the bumper sticker is hey you know we've you know from a business perspective you know we hit a billion dollars in bookings we have hit 350,000 customers the Innovation Train is really moving our Veen clouds here that we announced with update four earlier this year has gone way beyond our expectations and and we're looking to continue to build on that momentum so we're just super excited you know we if I'm the closer I'll say thanks to all of our sponsors we have a lot of great sponsors and on the cloud side on the on the Alliance partners side the channel side you know it's just it's it's a testament to where we are as a companies yeah and you're building out a great ecosystem congratulations on that and and good luck going forward and we'll see you around at the shows it's great it's great to have you guys right thank you all right you're welcome all right keep it right there everybody Peter and I went back to wrap right after this short break and watching the cube live from V Mon 2019 from Miami we'll be right back

>> live from Miami Beach, Florida It's the que covering demon 2019. Brought to you, by the way. >> Welcome back to Miami. Everybody watching the Cube, The leader in live tech coverage. This is Day two of the mon 2019 3 cubes. Third year at V mon, We did New Orleans. We did Chicago last year. Course here at the Fountain Blue in Miami. Great venue for an event like this. I'm Dave a lot. It was my co host, Peter Burroughs. Abba Dabbas. Eye is Adi is here. He's the head of a Charles Russell speech. Liza London based law firm. How about great. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Thankyou. So you tell us about this judge. Interesting name. Charles Russell. Speech lease. It was a merger of two firms, Right. Tell us how it all came about. >> Back in 2,014 Charles, loss of species performed for a merger between two different companies. Charles docile and speaks Lee Burcham from a 90 perspective. That was very interesting for the two departments coming together s So we have a limited time period where we had to merge these two companies Two different systems different data centers, different data sets. So it was formed by emerging back in 2,014 for five years on way here today >> that we see this a lot, you know, Emanate goes down. The acquiring company of this sounds like it was a merger. You know, they sort of battle. Okay, who's going toe? Really? Which framework is going to win? Because I'm sure had that conversation. But so to take us through that merger, what it entailed what? What the scenario looked like and how you plan for it. Sure. >> So I was part of the Charles. Also legacy Charles Russell team on, then obviously speaks about. Some had their own team as well. So initially, when we first found out about the merger, it was essential for the two teams to get together to work out. Okay, What systems? You have free mail. What systems you have for document management system playing trump cards. Which is who's got the best system and which way do we wantto move forward? A little. >> Ah, >> so but being a law firm, most law firms around the world and in the UK especially used the same types of software so essentially that from that perspective it was It was it was quite simple. But then way had to work out. How do we How do we go forward with this? Because two different headquarters in the London area. Which office do we move into? Sort of logistics around that. Can we fit in pre merger? It was six. Charles Lawson had sickle. Roughly 600 people, especially birds, had roughly 500 people. So pretty comparable. Yeah, yeah. So working out space logistics was was an issues >> making that even even more complicated, right? Yeah. >> One of the things that's interesting about a law firm, like versus a traditional manufacturer or AW financial services firm that has a lot of very fast right writing systems and have to scale on those lines is a law firms feature very complex dogs, very complex in from out of files, a lot of files that are written. But at the same time, you have to be repurposed to a lot of different work flows very sensitive to external contingent regulatory change. And so you have all of that happening, especially, I mean, two years ago from now on MySpace steak, and it was you're getting into brexit stuff, too, so that also had to be a source of uncertainty. So how has it been combining external regulatory issues the way that technology is being used in law firms and some of the new work clothes that you guys trying to support? And then adding, On top of that, the complexity of bringing these two firm GPR >> GPO itself was It was a year old project for us on. Obviously, we've got offices. The Middle East, but obviously is in the Far East on DH in Central Europe has well, so data logistics or where it sits, is an issue for us as well. So GDP, ours being a big project for us in terms of the merger itself. It was it was very, very difficult for the two I T departments to come together on actually work out. How how do we go to one unified systems? Essentially one doctor man, just in one email system. All of that took a lot of plan in law project management on essentially within the legal press itself. We got doubted in the time frames that we had that we can achieve it on within. I think It was 18 month period. We had merged order, different systems and various offices because speech the Bertram and Time is what I had. Offices in Zurich and Geneva were to merge with different offices together as well. So it was. It was a big, big task for the i T department on the firm itself. >> They're very tight migration deadlines. And and as you started to approach those deadlines you had to worry about, Okay, When we're going to cut over, how do we avoid downtime? How do we make sure that we don't? You know, I have bad data, data, corruption and the like. So how did you plan for that? And how did it go? >> So wait, we're here. C'mon on DH. Veen was It was it was a big part of our migration process. So where we had two different parts of the business Different storage systems, Different actualization system's way used to mean a CZ. The middleman basically, to my great data, from one day to center to another, using swink it. So where there was a large amount of terabytes and terabytes, amount of data way had swing kit available to us using team were able to be to be essentially a love the environments into the swing care and then bring them over to the other side of the business. And vain was essentially part on on top of that, making sure that the data that we were coming that will bring in a cross is true and not corrupt on DH, that using some of their technology is sure backups and stuff like that really, really was essential to, you know, do migration going well >> And was was Wien installed and both organizations at the time? Or was that something that you had to sort of redeploy? >> And yeah, So Legacy Charles also had way was actually myself going back probably eight years ago. Version For a time, I think team had 20,000 customers. So to here >> there were version 10 now 33 150 >> 1,001,000, 4,000 month. >> That makes me proud that we invested in vain when we did good car. So yeah, it was It was a good call from us, and essentially three other side of the business did not have. But then we just wait. Expanded our Venus State to look at both sides and then bring him across on. And then, ever since then, we've grown our vamos state across the world, across all of officers. So >> So how did you do that? So that was that was another migration that had to occur. And did you? You kind of do those simultaneously. Did you do the theme of migration first, and then bring the two systems together? >> Do you seem to do Stouffer special sauce in the migration? >> Yeah. So Veen was essentially a tool that we used to my great data sensors from one data center to another using their backup technology using their replication technology, we were able to replicate all of one side's virtual machines to the other. And then that gave us that gave us the flexibility as well. When when we had the limited down time periods that we've had, they give us the flexibility to actually Circe the business is during these particular ours. We're not gonna be able to You're not gonna have access to these systems because we're going to bring up systems from point A to point B. So veen was essential to them if >> you had to do it over again. If he had a mulligan, what would you have done differently? What what advice might you give to somebody who's trying to go through a similar migration? >> I would say Give your partners and lawyers more realistic time. Pray the time frame that we would get. >> Or don't let them give you an unrealistic time for him. >> Exactly. Yeah, so says ensured that the amount of work it's it's not just day to itself. You know, we're talking network and we're talking security. We're talking, you know, to to similar sized companies coming together. We were very, very limited time frame, consolidating all of their systems into one which is essential for the two parts of the business to collaborate together because, you know, way could have taken our time. We could have got to take this free four years a CE, far as we're concerned. But the fact that we did do it in such a quick time for him and that business to parts of the business from Day one can collaborate much better with each other. So >> we talked a lot about digital business transformation and you know, our approach or our observations on the digital business transformations, the process by which you altar and change your firm to re institutionalize the work. Change your game. Tomato Grover. All governments model as you use data as an asset, so that's affecting every firm everywhere. How's it affecting a law firm and you know your law from specifically on? How is that going to change your stance in your approach to data protection >> Data is incredibly important to unlawful. A zit is to most most organizations, but in terms of, you know, one of one of the things that's quite important in terms of law firms. We work with the financial institutions, so we held information by that. We hold personal data way hold all times of information. Charles Oscar speech leads works with Aware is of law apart from Kunal. So the areas of law that they worked with his vast in terms of the amount of data that we hold and essentially I mean, for us data is the most important thing that runs the firm and having visibility tow our data. How do we How do we work that data? How do we then market based on the data that we have? How do we market ourselves from that data. You know, there might be one area the business that's dealing with a family issue, family law. But then, you know that that could correspond with the litigation issue. You know, how do we work that data? To be to be an advancing to our businesses is extremely important. For >> what? What do you think of the announcements this week? I'm kind of curious. I was liketo ask the practitioners of what they think about. You know what was announced. You had, uh, well, you had the ve made $1,000,000,000. That's kind of fun and cool, but But you had the with the program, which was kind of interesting. The whole ap I look the beam availability orchestrator, where they're really talking about recovering from backups as a host that needed to recover from, you know, a replicated instance. You know, some of the automated testing stuff was kind of interesting. They talked about dynamic documentation, things you saw this week that you'll actually go back and say, Hey, I can apply that to solve a problem. Sure. >> So, essentially, I think I've been a really good question is very relevant to us many of not just ourselves law firm but many of the other law firms around the world are now looking at cloud based services now for us. I mean, this was a big thing five years ago way you know, everyone was talking about public clouds. Us. We're now we're now looking clouds and where basically, we've bean pushed by the vendors themselves to go towards cloudlike Citrix, for example. Their licensing model was based around their services. So is Microsoft in Mike's off? You don't you don't really have, you know, exchange anymore. Within premises you have off 365 A lot of the SAS applications are moving toward the cloud on DH. What wrote me? I had to say doing the keynote in regards to act, too. And how team are trying to be the visionaries in terms of look at that cloud is their next big thing for the next 10 years, offering often a crucial and for businesses like ours who have limited exposure to cloud technologies limited understanding, essentially having a tool that could migrate from one cloud to another. It's fantastic, you know, we've offered, you know I've spoken to, obviously are United directors around the other law firms where I wanted to have gone to the public cloud. But they don't know how to come back in and having a tall that essentially gives you that flexibility to bring it back in house to go form a ws to zoo. Or if there's a particular assess application, for example, that piers better with a W s. But you've got your other application that piers with that particular application is your Why would you want to have in the door? You'll probably want to move into a W eso for us, I think. What? The message coming out of'em on this year has bean really, really helpful for us. >> So So when you started with theme, they had it said 20,000 custom You like the 20001st customer on DIT was coincided with the virtual ization, you know, craze. Do you feel like the team knowing what you know about them, you have a lot of experience with them Consort of Replicate that success in this town intendant and in Act two, >> I think when I first looked at them, Wow, this is really, really simple. It's a bit like an iPhone. You know you given iPhone to your grandmother or to your children, and they have to play with it. And I see the beam as an intuitive piece of software that easy fighting professionals to get on with it, as their slogan said a few years ago. It just works. It does just work. Wear were great advocates of him. It's worked wonders for us. We've acquired smaller businesses using we've managed companies using and when I see you know, when you go to the sessions and you see the intelligence behind their thinking, I think going back to your question I think Wei si oui, si, vamos a strategic partner for us when we see their vision and we believe in their vision, and I think what they're doing in terms of what they working on next few years, I think we're well favor there, and I think, you know, essentially, that's where the most of their business is going to come from, >> where you sit down with, you know, rat mayor over over vodka and he says, Tell me the one thing I could do to make your life you know, easier, better you can't say cut prices s a hellhole. But what would you advise him to >> make my life better >> other than Jim instead of >> yeah, eyes that >> would make you crazy. >> So in terms of a zoo, a technology, >> your business relationship or something, she'd like to see them do that would. I >> think in terms of mergers and acquiring companies, seen license rentals will be a good thing. I know, I know. They give you a valuation license keys, and that's something that you can use. So, for example, if we were to acquire a company that has hundreds of servers and PM's having license rentals for a period of time, able >> to spin it up and spin it down actually allowed >> Exactly. Yeah, that would be an advantage. I think in terms of what you know what they're doing in the marketplace, and a lot of law firms use him. I feel I can't do any more than they are doing now. And in all the years that we've used to be my fingers on eight years now, but we've only had one serious problem, and the way they got that problem, you know the way, the way they communicated to reverse the way they a lot of different teams across the the Europe and the US go involved. I think, you know, in terms of service, in terms of software, in terms of what they what they do for us. I don't think there's anything more to add. Teoh. Right? Maia's vision. >> That's great for their custom of it. Well, thanks so much for coming on. The Cube is not heavy. Really? Thank you very much. You're welcome to keep it right there, buddy Peter, and I'll be back with our next guests right after this short break. We're live from Miami at the front of Blue Hotel. You're watching the Cube from Vienna on 2019 right back.

>> Live from Miami Beach, Florida it's the CUBE covering VeeamON 2019 brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Miami everybody, you're watching the CUBE the leader in live tech coverage as we go out to the events and we extract the signal from the noise, this is day one of VeeamON 2019 the CUBE's third year covering Veeam first year we were in New Orleans, last year Chicago, very cool and hip location here at the Fontainebleau Hotel, I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host Peter Boroughs. Colin Chatelier is here, he's the manager of storage and compute for Europe at Rabobank, Colin thanks for coming on the CUBE it's good to see you. >> Yeah glad to be here. >> So tell us about Rabobank, what are you guys all about? >> Okay, so Rabobank is obviously a bank we have two main focuses, first of all we're trying to be the biggest high street bank in the Netherlands, biggest retail bank in the Netherlands and we've got 7.3 million customers there, in an adult population of 14 million so that's not bad. And secondly the Netherlands is only of certain size and we're not going to grow it that much so the biggest part of our new business is international. And that's the bank is all focused on providing food and agriculture expertise loans, FX, spot work, anything that can help people or help businesses improve their efficiencies and get more food from spade to plate. >> So what are some of your, the drivers in your business that are affecting your technology strategy? >> Drivers in a business I guess again we've got two different parts of the bank I should probably explain, so two years ago we brought the IT of those two different parts of the bank together. >> [Dave} That's the Retail And The International? >> The retail and the international and if you think about it the international is all wholesale work, the retail is all high street banking so the retail those people really want to see their data, they want to see it on the, on the web, their check and balances, transferring pocket money to their kids and if that doesn't happen, that's a tragedy and embarrassing. So we can't be responsible for that as a result one of our watch words is always on, so we need to make sure that data is always available and we need to make sure that systems are always up for them. Part of that really is, occasionally it won't always be on so you need to be able to recover very quickly and getting a product that's simple to use for recovery and fast to recover was really part of that strategy, that's where Veeam came in. >> So when you had to merge those two IT operations, obviously it was more than the data protection side of things, but talk generally about what the challenges were but then specifically about the data protection piece. >> Okay, so bringing two IT departments together of course gives you a choice, "am I going to use product A or product B?" "Or sometimes product A and product B and not C." That gave us an opportunity to really do something that's not that common in the backup world and introduce a bit of churn, especially in retail environments, we have monthly backups, sorry especially in wholesale we have monthly backups. And those monthly backups go for anything from one year to ten years. So trying to get away from a backup product where there's ten years worth of legacy there, to recover, it's very tricky. But bringing the two banks together gave us that opportunity to say, okay well we'll invest in in a move and we really put a whole series of criteria together to try and figure out which one we were going to use. We moved from vmware and Hyper-V we're moving everything to vmware and from, we have a number of other backup products which I won't name because we're moving away from them. And Veeam was the winner there. Now, why? We needed something that would recover quickly we needed something that would scale to the enterprise, we have 13 thousand VMs being backed up today. We needed something that we could deploy reasonably quickly and without too much effort and actually when we deployed Veeam, we started off in November last year and by the end of January we were finished. Now there were a couple of thousand VMs on Veeam at that point >> Hold on, I'm sorry so it took you two months to effectively move out an old backup infrastructure and move in a new one? >> Sort of correct yes, for dailies. For monthly's we haven't touched that yet so we decide to just bite off one chunk at a time. >> Because you've got ten years of legacies with your monthly's... >> We have at least ten years, yeah >> All right but still >> That's pretty quick >> Yeah, yeah yeah >> Now what about cloud, every conference you go to you see the sign, cloud data management everything is cloud, cloud, cloud it used to be in your business, the financial services business, that cloud was an evil word >> Yeah >> Is it still? What's your clod strategy and how does data protection fit in? >> Well we have a strategy of public cloud first, that's a lot easier to do for new applications than it is for existing applications of course. So it tends to be that the existing applications are waiting for a technical refresh or are waiting for a an application re-write and new applications are going straight into the cloud. How we are protecting that, at the moment most of our data is held on prem where as a lot of our applications which can easily be refreshed and re-published is held on the cloud so we, those guys, the dev ops teams are performing their own backup, their own recovery. >> So are you able to sort of, for the on prem stuff are you trying to sort of make that cloud-like so it'll substantially mimic the cloud are you able to do that? You know, Peter you're always talking about bringing the cloud experience to your data, is that something that you're able to do or is that just sort of good marketing tagline? >> It's something that we are just starting to do again, so a year ago we had a private cloud that was just on the verge of being deployed, but we decided then that strategically we'd mothball that and encourage everybody to go to public cloud, and not confuse them with two different choices. That's proving a little difficult so one of the things that we find is development teams who are currently in the cloud can develop things with software defined infrastructure but when they try and interface with the data or with some of the systems that are on prem, then they come to a dramatic holt and they have to wait for the normal on prem processes to kick through. So what we're looking at doing now is we just started a new process or a new project an on prem, proof of concept, on prem cloud that will interact with the off prem cloud and give the cloud-like experience. So we'll see. >> So you have that challenge of agile meets waterfall and now you're trying to create some kind of equilibrium or really trying to modernize the on prem, what's the strategy there? >> Well I don't think it's agile meets waterfall I think its dev ops meets traditional process. It's and, yeah... (laughter) But how are we going to do it you say? >> Yeah, well I guess what I'm getting to is are you gong to find sort of a common ground or are you really going to try to drive that sort of dev ops mentality into the legacy process? >> We'll, continue to have a traditional or legacy, depending on what you want to call it, environment there, but we'll also have a software to find infrastructure environment on prem, if this proof of concept works, it's being built at the moment or being designed at the moment based on a vmware stack. >> What role will containers and microservices play in terms of facilitating that transformation? >> At the moment we have containers on prem which are coming with applications but we don't have a specific container platform which we're offering as a service on prem That's just where, there's containers off prem of course you know as Euro Cloud. >> Right, right, so for the on prem stuff what does that do for you and where do you see that going? >> For containers? >> Yeah >> At the moment we have a policy of not providing a container service on prem >> Oh, oh, oh, sorry, I heard wrong, sorry. Okay so that's not a direction that you're going currently? >> No but it maybe, because we're feeling our way forward I think. >> As you think about, for example banks or financial services companies have been at the Vanguard of a lot of digital business practices because you're core offering is data and how it gets used so is your overall business starting to rethink this notion of backup and restore from something that's just there to you know, make sure the data's available to becoming an essential strategic capability that can span between the two modes that you're describing but a common approach to making sure the data assets aren't compromised by vendor relationships, by application development style, by locations, is that, are you thinking in those terms of a federated approach to ensure the services on the data that you need? >> Okay well that was a very long question >> Yes >> But it's quite a short answer, yes we're thinking about it, no we haven't done it yet. So, but I think you're absolutely right, one of the problems could be for example we deploy in I don't know as your AWS, Google, and we fall out with one of those cloud providers and we try and move our backup data from provider A to provider B, is it transportable? You know, is, have we got the same policy that's been deployed in each of them so that whole thing needs to be... >> You don't want to recreate that problem that you got with those ten years of monthly backups with the new stuff too? >> Exactly, yeah yeah, we've already made that mistake. >> What are the other challenges, well but you made it for good reason, that was the state of the technology at the time and you had to have hardened processes and that was how you did it you know, ten or fifteen years ago. What are the other problems or challenges that you hear from when we talk to financial services organizations is if their data exists, they're data companies as Peter said but their data exits in hardened silos, again for good reason, you had to protect that data it was mission critical family jewels type of stuff >> Regulatory reasons >> Now as you transform into the so-called digital business everybody wants access to that data and so you've got that tough balancing act so, is that obviously a challenge for you, how are you dealing with that challenge and data protection generally was unique to each of those silos, so how are you thinking about data protection going forward in terms of busting those silos? >> Well, I don't think we've eve had silos in data protection, I think we've, our data protection has been uniform across the two banks of course >> Yeah, right. >> So now we've brought them together again, we have what, different retention characteristics, different ways of using the product. But over the last year and a half, two years we've pretty much brought in the same processes. But I don't think that any application on prem or any that will be on the private cloud or on the prem cloud will have anything different. It will use the same product, the same processes and perhaps have more access by the development teams, dev ops teams to be able to fire off their own backups at the right time. >> You're talking from a data protection perspective >> Perspective, yeah >> And then potentially other things like microservices or containers over time? >> Yeah >> Yeah, okay what's happening at the show here? Things you've learned, anything you've seen that's exciting you? Any announcements? >> Well, it's early days isn't it? It's early days so I think the, the best thing for the show so far was last night when it, going on the boat, meeting some of the other execs and sharing some experiences with them. I think, you know one of the things I always think is the best practice comes from worst experience and I don't want to have all that worst experience myself I wouldn't mind it from everybody else. (laughter) So I think you can learn more in an hour in a social situation then you can perhaps in two hours in the conference room there. >> So what are yo hearing from your peers, what are they doing, some of the challenges they're facing this digital business stuff is it real? How are they dealing with it? >> Okay, my peers, I think what they're feeling is that the traditional backup solution, the traditional backup providers are just not quick enough on their feet, agile in a real sense rather than a >> Quotes >> Quotes and marketing sense yeah, and I think the traditional providers tend to be, less grateful for the business perhaps. You know I heard about the number of new customers that Veeam are getting today but they seem to give a lot of attention to those new customers. Now deploying 13 thousand vms in a relatively short period of time we needed a lot of help from Veeam to overcome the obstacles as we hear them and they were there when we needed them and you know that makes a difference I think especially when you're protecting your data and you need to be ale to restore that data you need a partner not a vendor. >> So it's as much the relationship as the technology is what I'm hearing? >> I don't think we would get into bed with a vendor who wasn't a partner as well. >> Or in manner respects it's almost like Veeam understands how to solve the problem and their technology is a way of doing it easily, and simply, and reliably? >> Exactly yeah. >> I want to follow up on that because some of the large companies that can infer what you're talking about, they might have big established direct sales forces, meat eating guys that are in the field that just go belly to belly. You know Veeam all channel, all indirect how are they successfully partnering with you in ways that the other guys may not be with that type of go to market model? >> So we used a company called Pro*Act a reseller to buy into Veeam, I guess Veeam trained them up well because they had all the information at their finger tips and they represented us in the negotiation with Veeam, so it took away perhaps some of the conflict that you would get in an early situation. And then when we needed the direct help from Veeam, Veeam stepped up to the board and started giving that direct help and not cut out the reseller but the reseller wasn't needed anymore at that point. >> And that was help from a technology stand point or a business terms stand point or both? >> Technology, just over coming the problems, you know a big organization has got a lot of networks a lot of lans, v-lans, and we need to be able to punch holes through those v-lans so it's quite interesting to be able to be told up front where we need to punch. >> Make this work >> Yeah >> Great, all right Colin, well thanks very much for coming to the CUBE, it was great having you, give your final thoughts on Miami, you're coming in from out of town and you got the tour last night on the boat, and what'd you think and impressions of the conference? >> Well Miami first of all, it looks like a nice place to live as we cruised past all of those gigantic homes, I didn't notice anyone in them so, perhaps one's going cheap. The conference it looks good, I am always surprised by how big it is, it's my second event and yeah, they've got a hell of a lot of customers and seem to be loyal customers as well, nobody has a bad thing to say. >> Were you here in Chicago last year? >> I wasn't I was here in New Orleans >> New Orleans, yeah, two years ago, all right great well thanks very much of coming to the CUBE we appreciate it >> Thank you >> All right keep it right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest you're watching the CUBE live from VeeamON 2019, be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Miami Beach, Florida, It's theCUBE covering VeeamON 2019. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Miami, everybody. This is Dave Vellante with Peter Burris. We're here at day one at VeeamON 2019. This is CUBE's 3rd year of doing VeeamON. We started in New Orleans, it was a great show. Last year was Chicago, and here, Miami at the Fontainbleau hotel. Marc Crespi is here, he's the vice president of sales engineering for the Americas at ExaGrid Systems Cube. Hello Marc, good to see you again. >> Good to see you. >> Thanks for coming on. So, give us the update. What's happening with ExaGrid? You guys got new headquarters in Marlborough. Marlborough's happening these days, right? We got the new shopping spa, and the mayor's going crazy, so give us the update on ExaGrid. >> Yes, so we just moved into a beautiful new headquarters in Marlborough and share it with some great other companies. The company continues to grow rapidly, double digit growth year over year, one of the few companies in this category that's growing that quickly. So everything's great. >> What's driving the growth? >> Well, customers are looking to fix the economics of backup. They've been spending too much money on it for a lot of years, so they look at products now, they want them to be simple, easy to use, and very cost-effective and we drive that trend very hard. >> Yeah I mean that doesn't really describe- what you just described, simple, easy to use, and cost-effective really doesn't describe backup for the past 20 years. So what are you doing specifically to make it simple, cost-effective, and easy to use? >> Well, first of all, by working with companies like Veeam. Veeam is a very easy-to-use product, it's very intuitive and then our product integrates very well with it so the products work together very well and makes just a very simple solution. >> What do you see as other big trends in backup? showed a slide today, 15 billion dollars. A big chunk of that, maybe close to half of it was backup and recovery, there's all kind of other stuff: data management, analytics, etc, etc, etc. What do you see, obviously cloud, you talked about the big superpowers, what are the big trends that are driving your business and more importantly, your customers transformation? >> Well, customers are looking to reduce the amount of data that they actually have to move. So, incremental technology's a really big- themes of pioneer in that, obviously doing incremental backups and that saves time and effort, saves space, along with data deduplication, it really makes for cost-effective storage solution. >> Talk a little bit more about why you're growing, how you sort of uniquely compete in the marketplace with some of the big whales. >> Sure, so our most unique feature is our architecture, and it has both technical aspects and economic aspects. Because we're a scale-out architecture, meaning that with every capacity increase of your data, we're not just adding storage, we're adding CompuPower network memory, etc. so that we keep the backup times very, very, very low. That also makes for a very cost-effective architecture because what we've done is you can scale out pretty much infinitely and we've also eliminated the concept of the end of a life of products. So we never force our customers into mandatory refreshes so their economics are very predictable over a long period of time. >> What do you see as the biggest use cases today that are driving your business? I mean, obviously, backup and recovery, I talked earlier about some of these emerging data management, cloud obviously, is this big, Edge, you seeing much going on there. What are some of those workloads and use cases that you see? >> I think probably one of the biggest use cases these days is what I would call instant recoveries, meaning that rather than doing a traditional restore, which could take a long number of minutes to hours. Customers will actually run production workloads off of the backup target as a way to get users back productive more quickly than would've been done in the past. >> Yeah, and that's key because you see in RPO and RTO's sort of companies putting more and more pressure on the IT groups to shrink those times, presuming you're seeing that in conjunction with digital, digital business, digital transformation. You talked about architecture before. What about your architecture and maybe with your partnership with Veeam allows customers to shrink those RPO and RTO times? >> I think the other aspect of our architecture that's very unique is what we called adaptive deduplication. One of the things we looked at when we architected the product was deduplication is obviously a very effective technology, but what are potential cons. Things that would make it less effective in backup. And one of the things we realized was if you put deduplication in the middle of the backup window and due to deduplication while the backups are running, then you could interfere with the speed of disk. So we do something called adaptive deduplication which means that we allow the object from the backup software to land and then we deduplicate and replicate them in parallel, but we make sure that we're not throttling the backups. So, we provide disk speeds even though we use deduplication. >> Okay. So, that's an example of one of the things you're doing to sort of improve it. How about Veeam integration? Is there anything specific there that you're doing that we should know about? >> Well, part of it is because of adaptive deduplication and because we maintain complete copies of backups. We uniquely support instant Veeam recovery like no other vendor can. Furthermore, we run what's called the Veeam data remover which is actually Veeam technology runs inside of our appliance and sets up a optimized communication protocol with the Veeam software that allows us to do a number of great things. >> Wait, double click on on that. So, is it an efficient protocol or is there other sort of accelerators that you've got in there? >> The protocol is optimized, and then we do some other acceleration around how you do synthetic folds and things of that sort that are unique to the data mover. >> And you have news with Veeam this week, do you not? >> Yes, we do. We're announcing something called ExaGrid backup with Veemam and what it is in a nutshell is the ability for a customer to purchase both technologies from their preferred reseller by just ordering one part number. So it dramatically simplifies the acquisition of the two technologies and allows customers to simplify the buying process. >> So Veeam, I know, is all channel sales. How about you guys? How do you go to market? >> We also are, yes. >> So, talk more about your go-to market. What do you have? Like, an overlay sales force that it helps facilitate? You got partners? Maybe you can talk more about your ecosystem. >> Well, we have a worldwide sales force and our sales people, the people that do the selling, work directly with our partners, so we don't have a specialized channel workforce, but we have a specialized channel strategy, and our entire sales team is very well trained on the channel, how to work with the channel, and make them happy and successful. >> So, backup for a long time time was kind of an afterthought. It was non-differentiated. You just did what you needed to make sure the devices could be recovered. >> Yeah, you bolted it on. >> You bolted it on. >> Right. >> Increasingly, it's becoming recognized as a central capability to any digital business, because if your data goes away or your data's no longer available, your digital business is gone. >> Right. >> That suggests we're going to get a greater degree of differentiation in the types of devices, in the types of systems, etc, that are going to become part of a backup solution. First of all, do you agree with that? And then secondly, go back to the use cases, where do you guys see yourselves fitting into that increasingly federated backup capability? >> Well, I certainly do agree with it. I mean, it's always been a necessity, but now even with things like Ransomware and the cryptoviruses, and things of that sort, it's even more important than it's ever been. It's no longer just data loss, etc. So, we fit into that trend and we'll continue to fit into that trend by continuing to drive the economics through the floor. Customers want that level of protection, it's a little bit like insurance. You need the protection, but you don't want to pay a dollar more than you have to, right? So you want to put it on an economic diet, and the way our technology evolves, we come out with denser, faster systems at a lower cost per terabyte just about every year. And we'll continue to do that. >> So do you anticipate then that there's going to be specialized use cases or are you just going after taking costs out of the equation? >> It's not so specialized because it's very horizontal. Everybody does it and everybody backs up all their data. So, we don't specialize in any one area of the data center like database or anything of that sort. We go wherever the customer needs us to go inside their data center. >> It's in the data center, sorry David, it's in the data center. >> In the data center, we also have a cloud offering, we have partners that will offer disaster recovery as a service, so they'll have data centers that manage on behalf of the customers, and we also have an offering that goes into Amazon web services. And, shortly, we'll be coming out with one for Azure. >> And that is what? A software based offering that uses the cloud as a target? >> Correct, it's a virtual appliance that you can replicate into the cloud. >> All right. We don't have much time left tonight, we have a really important topic to cover, which is, we talked about last year, but I want to bring it up again, which is sports. >> Yup. Why don't we talk Boston sports, we could talk about Warriors. I got a question for you, but- >> I'll watch >> I asked you last year, and I think it was May, we were in Chicago, I said "Would you have traded Tom Brady?" At a time when the sentiment was, he was done. And you said "No way, absolutely not." You, Peter McKay, and Patrick Osmond all said emphatically no, you made the right call. So good job. >> Thank you. >> Your thoughts? >> Would never trade him. He can play until he's 100 for all I care. As long as he keeps performing at such a high level, why would you lose him? >> And then, of course, the Red Sox, 108 wins, that was an amazing gift that they gave us. So, I don't know if you're a baseball fan. >> I am. >> All right, I got to ask you, Peter. Are the Warriors the greatest basketball team in the history of basketball? >> Well, let's see... >> Brendan says yes. >> They are the best basketball team at a time of the most competitive NBA. Some of the rules have changed, but the athletes are better, they're more conditioned, they are more knowledgeable by how to play this game, and they are the best team in basketball without Kevin Durant and without Boogie Cousins. >> Yeah. >> So ... hard to argue. >> They're sweeping Portland without Durant which is pretty amazing. So Brendan, for years, has been trying to tell me that. You know, Brendan is our local basketball genius so, I don't know. >> Now, would the Warriors have beaten say a Bill Russell Celtics team with the Celtics- Bill Russell Celtics team rules? Maybe not. >> Yeah, I don't know. I would say I'm starting to come around to Brendan's way of thinking. But, Marc, we'll give you the last word here. VeeamON 2019, great venue here in Miami, very hip, hip company, hip venue, ExaGrid growing, double digit growth rate, so congratulations on that. Your final thoughts? >> Just great to be here, I always like coming to Veeam events, they're always very well attended, I get to meet a lot of customers and really enjoy it. >> Marc Crespi, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE. It's great to see you again. >> Thank you. >> All right, keep it right there everybody. Peter and I will be back with our next guest right after this short break. This is VeeamON 2019 and you're watching theCUBE.

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering Google cloud next 19 taught to you by Google cloud and its ecosystem partners hello everyone welcome back to the cubes live coverage here in San Francisco the Moscone Center for the Google clouds conference is called Google next 2019 I'm Chevrolet my costume in omim de Ville ante is also here doing interviews our next guest is probably Bob who's the VP of product and design for server lists at Google probably great to see you thanks for coming on thank you for having me so you'd be a you're the VP of Product you got the keys to the kingdom on the roadmap you're seeing all the announcements obviously server lists cloud run was announced cloud code was mentioned on stage that's going to come out tomorrow so code build run this is DevOps this is actually happening yeah you know what super exciting is that we've we're finally solving the problem for customers and taking a customer centric view of this I'll start off with a little bit of the journey we took to get here right as we were talking to customers they kept coming back to three things that they wanted from us the first thing they wanted was agility they understand that you know cloud could give them great cost savings but they also wanted to be able to move faster and innovate right the second bit they wanted was having the flexibility to be hybrid and multi-cloud super important especially to our largest customers and then the third piece was they've really struggled with his journey to cloud and they wanted our partnership to make it a much more seamless and non-deceptive journey so as we talk to them about these three things right we came back to the drawing board and said hey what are the products that we can build to make their journey to be more cloud native and more agile much more seamless and future-proofed that much better right so we came back to the drawing board and came up with three products that you talked about this now the first was we looked at developers and their journeys and we said look they're building in traditional ideas like IntelliJ or vs code optimized for local development right and they're not writing a lick of Yama they're right for kubernetes and we said okay how can we take those environments and help those development teams build cloud native apps really really easily so really just turbocharging their cloud native development so bill cloud code which extends their local ids and lets them deploy to remote clusters so they can get full debugging full deployment building its integrated in the cloud build and they get the full kubernetes a development environment right in place so cloud build was released earlier you got enhancements of that so news the hard news here is enhancements to cloud build cloud code as new announce here yeah cloud run announced today that's right so this is the new this is the new hard news that's right so bottom line what does it mean for a developer so like I didn't enterprise so I'm a cio I'm a site C so I'm gonna be putting all my eggs in the cloud basket I've still gonna run the on Prem day is gonna be critical to my strategy it's this early day set up time or are you guys thinking it's more about the setup or more the life cycle of CI CD pipelining all the way to application deployment a great question John so I think where we are in this journey is that enterprises have started off with something that's the most basic cloud ready workloads that have been lifted and shifted we now see the next wave of workloads this is the 80% of workloads that are still on premise we see them start to get cloud ready and cloud native and the way that their enterprises are gonna do that is by building on top of the standards we've created like kubernetes and sto and key native and what cloud cold and build and run and of course Anthes that we talked off this morning as well these are great managed solutions from Google fully managed solutions from Google that let you get cloud native fast all right Polly wonder if you can help us you know spin through I see a disconnect in the market so you know Google showed great leadership in the container space and of course kubernetes we came out of Google and when I look at like cloud run okay it's helping to connect that and Kay native to kubernetes in service when I talk to a lot of the developers and service it's not the infrastructure moving up the stack it's they didn't want to even think about it it's right built in the cloud that's right I focus on the application I don't even think about that so I've got this big gap as to you know on premises forget it I don't never want to touch it or think about it and you know the one of the reasons you know there's the term server list would put it to the side but now if I need one is this environment I don't want to think about it and we know hybrid is a reality but there's this big disconnect as to what kind of developer are you or you a DevOps person that came from an infrastructure background or are you just building apps today yeah yeah yeah we're definitely seeing that from our customers right so one thing that we hear all the time is developers don't want to just not think about infrastructure they actually want the managed service and the platform they're building on to think about the infrastructure and optimize it for them so it's not this program will infrastructure it it's cloud run programming the infrastructure for you so you don't have to do it and I think increasingly you're gonna see products like cloud run and anthos and cloud code let developers focus just on code because that's what they want to do right I don't ever seen a developer say I really want to write a Yama file or I want to set up more configuration parameters right so I think we're gonna get to the place where you have developers being able to focus on cold and all of the rest of this being taken care of by platforms like code and run and anthos automation becomes key I mean Jennifer Lynn's demo I thought was very game-changing because she made the comment developers can focus on their code and agility not access permissions and all the configuration management that goes on under the you guys gonna provide that in an automatic programmable way we're gonna believe he is and she kind of teased out service missions so service missions kind of point in the future which is app developers are gonna still need to be aware of maybe not aware of what cloud run how to manage those sirs as they come stand up and get pulled down dynamically yeah how do you view that because this has become a gonna become complex is that gonna be automated is that where cloud run comes in you expand on this whole impact of service meshes because that's the next level that's right that's right so if you think about key native it's built on kubernetes and it forms the kind of triad with sto as well right and what a product like cloud run does is it lets you not have to think about that because at the end of the day we don't want developers to have to think about K native what cloud run is it takes care of the K native portability and compatibility for you and all you do is focus on the code itself right so ultimately we want developers to focus on their applications but I will say this right we do care about another important constituent which is all of those folks who've already got an apps built out there can those workloads be serviced as well and that's part of the problem we're trying to solve it that's an operational thing all right so let's take a step back here so server list actually fanfare has been great we're seeing a lot of traction people are enamored by it because functions as a service has been very compelling whether it's retail managing you know that spiked loads and becomes we see some some use cases where it's like you know really an amazing thing where is it limiting what is the next level growth for server list where do you see you mention workloads and we see people deploying functions and being happy with it are there limitations with serverless how does it go to the next level can you take a minute to describe the current state of server lists and what's coming around the corner now so great question the first thing I'll say is that there's a ton of developers who come up to us every day and tell us cloud functions is awesome right and they really like functions as a service they like the event-driven approach to it they like the service full approach but several is provides love the programming model that's great but there's an another large contingent of developers who tell us look this is super constraining for what I want to do I don't get to choose the libraries I want you're forcing me into a particular programming model can you give me more flexibility and what they see every day is the flexibility that containers provide especially on kubernetes right and what we've tried to do with cloud run is try to bridge those worlds where you get all of the flexibility that you want right that you get with containers but then combine it with what what you really want with the operational model which is service right so you pay only for what you use and of course you get the agility of service as well now one thing that we've noticed heard some great stories about this is a customer of ours Veolia which is one of the early adopters of cloud run and they've been partnering with us we thank them for it they are running a complex workload you talked about retail what Veolia does is they're large French multinational they do energy water and environmental services these are things that need to be highly reliable very complex and these are workloads that have existed for ages right and what viola is doing is using cloud run to run that complex workload but in a service in a service full way running in a service fashion all right take a minute explain what's a complex workload for your definition what is a simple workload because guys again we love functions Stu and I always talk about how great it is but what's that what's the D mark line when when does something become complex by your standards where you guys are addressing they could think describe the characteristics of a complex workload so the first thing is does the workload require flexibility right meaning are their custom workloads sometimes even legacies C++ or C applications do they need to pull that functionality in as well right do they need to pull random artifacts from across the enterprise to combine it and sometimes these are things that have been built over 20 years ago they're really critical mission critical pieces of software that need to be able to trigger and run right and can we actually take that flexibility but also combine in with a highly reliable environment right so were close like New Orleans there is no downtime right they need to be up 24 by 7 for 365 days of the year right so that flexibility plus that level of reliability is what we look at when we look at complexes so you're getting into complex systems where you got some code may be written in a mainframe COBOL in C++ we mentioned that was my jamm what kind of old dating myself but that was state-of-the-art back in the 90s so I'm running an agile job maybe of standing up cloud native but I need a use software and data from a system that's where is that where the container piece comes that ku burning it on either kubernetes but cloud run also supports docker so let's say you're running it in a docker container all you need is a docker container image and we can host that workload on program yeah Polly help us understand where where Google kind of what what's the same one what's different compared to the other service offerings out there just what I've heard feedback the last year or two is you know the great thing about server list is it's really easy to get started I've talked to marketing people that have no coding background that you know can get off and running it but doing complex mission-critical stuff yeah like we understand you know there is no magic wand NIT no silver bullet to make it easy but you know what do you see as Google's role in in this broader marketplace and you know where does open-source fit into that too yeah yeah so first I'll start off by saying there's a whole host of functions that are running on cloud functions which are relatively lightweight simple targeted event-driven functions those work great where we see us really making a difference for our customers is in two ways the first is get these more complex workloads that are currently running in a container whether it's a docker container our and or on gke for that matter and bring the agility of service to those workloads so it's the first thing it's something that we think is very unique because combining containers with serverless the second bit really is the open approach we've taken right built on top of K native key native as you know has a number of partners so one of the cool demos that you'll see during during Google Cloud next is you'll see a workload being shifted from cloud run on gke to the IBM cloud IBM is one of our partners 4k native without a single line of code and that flexibility is something that I think customers really decided talk about the business pen and some of the benefits at the business level in a developer level at the operations level can you hit those three points yeah of serverless silikal server less on those three sectors what's the benefits yep so we talked about the benefits for developers for developers it's simply about agility focus on your own code don't worry about Gamal don't worry about ki native you don't have to worry about any of that we'll take care of it for you the second benefit that I'll talk about is again this is just a benefit for the CIO which is hey we're gonna give you the flexibility and the openness so you can have portability of your workloads across whatever and why are you environment you want whether it's on tram or in a cloud whether it's Google or another cloud that's the second benefit the third bit is all of the operational benefits of service one of the things you'll see us do and continue to commit to do is we'll bill you to the hundredth of a millisecond right and so you'll continue to get that with all of the resiliency you expect of Google infrastructure security also pretty much baked in as well security is big then there's a fully managed offering from Google and so you'll get security compliance policies all Big Data of course we watched the keynote and we watch every word from Koreans giving Diane green a little tip of the hat which was nice signal a lot of class a great respect for that but jennifer lynn said something i want to get your reaction to she was kind of talking about her thing doing a great demo he changing and when she said this would allow you to negotiate better contracts okay that might have been a slip of the tongue your reaction that that implied to me I took that and say whoa that means leverage shifts to the customer your thoughts and that kind of maybe a slip of the tongue but if you're saying that I couldn't have options and choice yes Janice pardon this is what customers want and at Google what we're focused on is giving customers what they want and one of the things that customers are worried about today is lock-in and especially in the server this area because the current offerings are so proprietary customers are worried about it because they want server lists for all the benefits offers that we talked about here but they do want that flexibility and that's what we negotiate actually we know Oracle is very strict on their cloud this is going to give customers the choice is the saying that's whoa you want a license renewal yeah that's what you're getting out here so Polly you talked about choice and flexibility you know kubernetes gives some of that concern with serverless is if I look at a sure if I look at AWS if I look at Kay native you know those three aren't the same I talked there there's a small start-up called trigger mesh that's getting Kay native to work with AWS lambda but do you see a future is there you know I've talked to the CMC F I've looked at some of the various pieces that you know serverless isn't just something that I'm baked into a cloud yeah look I think we've seen extraordinary momentum around Kay native it's very similar to what we had seen when in the early days of kubernetes this huge amount of ecosystem interest and so we'll see continued innovation where you'll see work load portability come to service and I'm confident in that because of all of the momentum we were seeing around Canada so we're committed at Google to K native and its success so you'll see us continue to innovate yeah talk about open source open source becomes a very strategic part you can Shin kubernetes which you guys were the that have the DNA the founding fathers of kubernetes now teams on the team went to vmware someone have Microsoft some stay within Google containers certainly we see what you guys have done when four against four J but open source still this fear of open source I mean I don't mean it in a way that it's going to be inhibited and primitive but support making sure s LA's work latency microservice is going to be involved you mentioned k- yeah so as open source accelerates the time then value for the code that also triggers this op side of the serviceability and reliability and support what's your thoughts on that how are you guys how do you see the industry supporting that that critical piece of the puzzle yeah could not be more critical right for customers to be able to adopt this because the number one thing that we need to do for customers is give them a managed offering that lets them not have to worry about security lets them not have to worry about compliance lets them not have to worry about policies or identity etc right bake all of that into the managed service and then the second operational bit is which is as important this goes to what Thomas talked about at the very end of his keynote which is the open source announcement is we want to make it simple for customers to adopt it will be supported by Google and the partner you'll get unified billing unified support and one person to call when you have a problem yeah Polly we're at an interesting point in open source today because they're they want to get your opinion as a product person and your relationship with open source because you know there's a certain cloud out there it's they're gonna give you open source as a managed service but you have some of the companies that are making like open source databases changing their policies to try to fight against just being you know taken over by somehow the big players how does Google react to that yeah for us the approach is all about partnership because we think together we can better serve customers needs and best serve them and so our approach has always been about partnership so whether it's kubernetes or key native or the larger manage store manager open source offerings that we talked about earlier in the keynote we want to bring all of these together so we can serve customers so you're gonna see us continue to like support the open source equals because we believe that innovation is absolutely critical to helping our customers really start innovated in be agile final question I know we're tight on time I want to get this in because you know I see a lot of positive I've come out of the show there's been some critical analysis around you've got to build up salespeople and all the field stuff which is you guys are well aware of but one of the things that was kind of teased out in the open source announcement was the role of Google having their own ecosystem Asli the C & C has been a big tailwind for Google you guys been a big part of that ecosystem as a cloud commercial provider and with these kinds of server list you're going to have an ecosystem starting to develop kind of a thousand flowers blooming pun intended so how do you see that in your area because this is going to be super important partnering ecosystem support yeah which is you know developer traction distribution of software integration opportunities that's why in monetization all kind of come together your thoughts huge hugely critical for us and that's something that we've been focused on we have a rich ecosystem of partners for service we're gonna continue to build it out across all of the different pieces you need one of the things we didn't talk much about was our entire operational stack monitoring logging all of those pieces right we need to bring all of those together along with all of our partners we have a big partnership with the likes of data dog right number of others so we're gonna continue to partner with the entire ecosystem so we can go solve the problems that they have are you guys gonna show them the white space where they can play is gonna be part of the strategy yeah so it's gonna be across the board you'll see us continue to support the key native ecosystem tremendously and like lean into that and we're already excited to see all the different offerings that are exist on key native same thing with kubernetes we're gonna continue to like press hard we've got on the operational side we've got an offering called open census it's got lots of traction again just open monitoring of applications so we're gonna continue to do that across the board yeah probably great to have you on vice president of product and design got the keys to the kingdom right here he's the who's running the show for the server list really the key part of how kubernetes really intersects old and new to create the next generation applications thanks for joining us and sharing the insight I'm Jeff forest do many men here live coverage Google next more coverage after this short break

>> From the SiliconANGLE media office, in Boston, Massachusetts, it's the CUBE. Now, here's your host, Stu Miniman. Hi, CUBE nation, I'm Sam Kahane. Thanks for watching the CUBE. Due to popular demand from the community, I will be interviewing the legendary Stu Miniman, here today. He is S-T-U on Twitter. Stu and I are going to be digging in to the 2019 predictions, and also recapping 2018 for you here. So, Stu, let's get into it a little bit. 2018, can you set the stage? How many events did you go to? How many interviews did you conduct? >> Boy, Sam, it's tough to look back. We did so much with the CUBE this year. I, personally, did over 20 shows, and somewhere between 400 and 450 interviews, out of, we as a team did over a 100 shows, over 2000 interviews. So, really great to be in the community, and immerse ourselves, drink from the fire hose, and some of the data. (laughs) >> So, over 400 interviews this year, that's amazing. What about some of the key learnings from 2018? Yeah, Sam,my premise when I'm going out is, how are we maturing? My background, as you know, Sam, I'm an infrastructure guy. My early training was in networking. I worked on virtualization, and I've been riding this wave of cloud for about the last 10 years. So, about two years ago, it was, software companies, how are they living in these public clouds? Amazon, of course, the dominant player in the marketplace, but we know it will be a multi-cloud world. And the update, for 2018, is we've gone from, how do I live in those public clouds, to how are we maturing? We call it hybrid clouds, or multi-cloud, but living between these worlds. We saw the rise in Kubernetes, as a piece of it, but customers have lots of environments, and how they get their arms around that, is a serious challenge out there, today. So, how are the suppliers and communities, and the systems integration, helping customers with this really challenging new environment, that we have today. >> I'd love to hear any OMG moments from you. What surprised you the most this year? >> It's interesting, when I wanna think about some of the big moves in the industry, I mean, we had the largest software acquisition in tech history. IBM, the company you used to work for, Sam, buying Red Hat, a company I've worked with, for about 20 years, for 34 billion dollars. I mean, Red Hat has been the poster child for open source, and the exemplar of that. It was something that was like, wow, this is a big deal. We've been talking for a long time, how important developers are, and how important open source is, and there's nothing like seeing Big Blue, a 107-year-old company, putting in huge dollars, to really, not just validate, cause IBM's been working in open source, working with Linux for a long time, but how important this is to the future. And that sits right at that core of that multi-cloud world. Red Hat wants to position itself to live in a lot of those environments, not just for Linux, but the Middleware, Kubernetes is a big play. We saw a number of acquisitions in the space there. Red Hat bought CoreOS for $250 million. VMware bought Heptio, and was kind of surprised, at the sticker shock, $550 million. Great team, we know the Heptio team well. We talked to them, some of the core people, back when they were at Google. But, some big dollars are being thrown around, in this space, and, as you said, the big one in the world is Amazon. One of the stories that everybody tracked all year was the whole hq2 thing. It kind of struck me as funny, as Amazon is in Seattle. I actually got to visit Seattle, for the first time, this year, and somebody told me, if you look at the top 50 companies that have employees in Seattle, of course, Amazon is number one, but you need to take number two through 43, and add them together, to make them as big as Amazon. Here in Boston, there's a new facility going up, with 5,000 employees. I know they're going to have 25,000 in Long Island City, right in the Queens, in New York City, as well as Crystal City, right outside of DC, 25,000. But, the realization is that, of course, Amazon's going to have data centers, in pretty much every country, and they're going to have employees all around the world. This doesn't just stay to the US, but Amazon, overall. So, Amazon, just a massive employer. I know so many people who have joined them. (laughs) Some that have left them. But, almost everything that I talk about, tends to come back to Amazon, and what there are doing, or how people are trying to compete, or live in that ecosystem. >> You're always talking to the community. What are some of the hottest topics you're hearing out there? >> So, living in this new world, how are we dealing with developers? A story that I really liked, my networking background, the Cisco DevNet team, led by Suzie Wee, is a really phenomenal example, and one of my favorite interviews of the year. I actually got to talk to Suzie twice this year. We've known her for many years. She got promoted to be a Senior Vice President, which is a great validation, but what she built is a community from the ground up. It took about four years to build this platform, and it's not about, "Oh, we have some products, and developers love it.", but it's the marketplace that they live in, really do have builders there. It's the most exciting piece of what's happening at Cisco. My first show for 2019 will be back at Cisco, live in Barcelona, and Cisco going through this massive transformation, to be the dominant networking company. When they talk about their future, it is as a software company. That actually, it blew my mind, Sam. You know, Cisco is the networking company. When they say, "When you think of us, "five to ten years from now, "you won't think of us as a networking company. "You'll think of us as a software company." That's massive. They were one of the four horsemen of the internet era. And, if Cisco is making that change, everything changes. IBM, people said if they don't make this move for Red Hat, is there danger in the future? So, everything is changing so fast, it is one of the things that everybody tries to sort out and deal with. I've got some thoughts on that, which I'm sure we'll get to later on. >> (laughs) As is Suzie Wee one of your top interviews of 2018, could you give your top three interviews? >> First of all, my favorite, Sam, is always when I get to talk to the practitioners. A few of the practitioners I love talking to, at the Nutanix show in New Orleans this year, I talked to Vijay Luthra, with Northern Trust. My co-host of the show was Keith Townsend. Keith, Chicago guy, said, "Northern Trust is one "of the most conservative financial companies", and they are all-in on containerization, modernized their application. It is great to see a financial company that is driving that kind of change. That's kind of a theme I think you'll see, Sam. Another, one, was actually funny enough, Another Nutanix show, at London, had the Manchester City Council. So, the government, what they're doing, how they're driving change, what they're doing with their digital transformation, how they're thinking of IOT. Some of my favorite interviews I've done the last few years, have been in the government, because you don't think of government as innovating, but, they're usually resource-constrained. They have a lot of constituencies, and therefore, they need to do this. The Amazon public sector show was super-impressive. Everything from, I interviewed a person from the White House Historical Society. They brought on Jackie O's original guidebook, of being able to tour the White House. So, some really cool human interest, but it's all a digital platform on Amazon. What Amazon is doing in all of the industry-specific areas, is really impressive. Some of these smaller shows that we've done, are super-impressive. Another small show, that really impressed me, is UiPath, robotic process automation, or RPA, been called the gateway drug to AI, really phenomenal. I've got some background in operations, and one of the users on the program was talking about how you could get that process to somewhere around 97 to 98% compliance, and standardize, but when they put in RPA, they get it to a full six sigma, which is like 99.999%, and usually, that's something that just humans can't do. They can't just take the variation out of a process, with people involved. And, this has been the promise of automation, and it's a theme. One of my favorite questions, this year, has been, we've been talking about things like automation, and intelligence in systems, for decades, but, now, with the advent of AI machine learning, we can argue whether these things are actually artificial intelligence, in what they are learning, but the programming and learning models, that can be set up and trained, and what they can do on their own, are super-impressive, and really poised to take the industry to the next level. >> So, I wanna fast forward to 2019, but before we do so, anything else that people need to know about 2018? >> 2018, Sam, it's this hybrid multi-cloud world. The relationship that I think we spend the most time talking about, is we talked a lot about Amazon, but, VMware. VMware now has over 600,000 customers, and that partnership with VMware is really interesting. The warning, of course, is that Amazon is learning a lot from Vmware, When we joke with my friends, we say, "Okay, you've learned a lot from them means that "maybe I don't need them in the long term." But in the short term, great move for VMware, where they've solidified their position with customers. Customers feel happy as to where they live, in that multi-cloud environment, and I guess we throw out these terms like hybrid, and multi, and things like that, but when I talk to users, they're just figuring out their digital transformation. They're worried about their business. Yes, they're doing cloud, so sassify what you can, put in the public cloud what makes sense, and modernize. Beware of lift and shift, it's really not the answer. It could be a piece of the overall puzzle, to be able to modernize and pull things apart. An area, I always try to keep ahead of what the next bleeding-edge thing is, Sam. A thing I've been looking at, deeply, the last two years, has been serverless. Serverless is phenomenal. It could just disrupt everything we're talking about, and, Amazon, of course, has the lead there. So, it was kind of an undercurrent discussion at the KubeCon Show, that we were just at. Final thing, things are changing all the time, Sam, and it is impossible for anybody to keep up on all of it. I get the chance to talk to some of the most brilliant people, at some of the most amazing companies, and even those, you know, the PhD's, the people inventing stuff, they're like, "I can't keep up with what's going on at my company, "let alone what's going on in the industry." So, that's the wrong thing. Of course, one of the things we helped to do, is to extract the signal from the noise, help people distill that. We put it into video, we put it into articles, we put it into podcasts, to help you understand some of the basics, and where you might wanna go to learn more. So, we're all swimming in this. You know, the only constant, Sam, in the industry is change. >> Absolutely. (laughing in unison) >> So, things are changing. The whole landscape, as you said, is changing. Going into 2019, what should people expect? Any predictions from you? Any big mergers and acquisitions you might see? >> It's amazing, Sam. The analogy I always use is, when you have the hundred year flood, you always say, "Oh gosh, we got through it, "and we should be okay." No, no, no, the concern is, if you have the hundred year flood, or the big earthquake, the chances are that you're going to have maybe something of the same magnitude, might even be more or less, but rather soon. A couple of years ago, Dell bought EMC, largest acquisition in tech history. We spent a lot of time analyzing it. By the way, Dell's gonna go public, December 28. Interesting move, billions of dollars. As Larry Ellison said, "Michael Dell, "he's no dummy when it comes to money.' He is going to make, personally, billions of dollars off of this transaction, and, overall, looks good for the Dell technologies family, as they're doing. So, that acquisition, the Red Hat acquisition, yeah, we're probably gonna see a 10-to-20 billion dollar acquisition this year. I'm not sure who it is. There's a lot of tech IPOs on the horizon. The data protection space is one that we've kept a close eye on. From what I hear, Zeam, who does over a billion dollars a year, not looking to go public. Rubrik, on the other hand, somewhere in the north of 200 million dollars worth of revenue, I kind of remember 200, 250 in run rate, right now, likely going to go public in 2019. Could somebody sweep in, and buy them before they go public? Absolutely. Now, I don't think Rubrik's looking to be acquired. In that space, you've got Rubrik, you've got Cohesity, you've got a whole lot of players, that it has been a little bit frothy, I guess you'd say. But, customers are looking for a change in how they're doing things, because their environments are changing. They've got lots of stuff in sass, gotta protect that data. They've got things all over the cloud, and that data issue is core. When we actually did our predictions for 2018, data was at the center of everything, when I talked about Wikibon. It was just talking to Peter Burris and David Floyer, and they said there is some hesitancy in the enterprise, like, I'm using Salesforce, I'm using Workday I'm using ServiceNow. We hear all the things about Facebook giving my data away, Google, maybe the wrong people own data, there's that concern I want to pull things back. I always bristle a little bit, when you talk about things like repatriation, and "I'm not gonna trust the cloud." Look, the public clouds are more secure, than my data centers are in general, and they're changing and updating much faster. One of the biggest things we have, in IT, is that I put something in, and making changes is tough. Change, as we said, is the only thing constant. It was something I wrote about. Red Hat, actually, is a company that has dealt with a lot of change. Anybody that sells anything with Linux, or Kubernetes, there are so many changes happening, on not only weekly, but a daily basis, that they help bring a little bit of order, and adult supervision, to what most people would say is chaos out there. That's the kind of thing we need more in the industry, is I need to be able to manage that change. A line I've used many times is, you don't go into a company and say, "Hey, what version of Azure are you running?" You're running whatever Microsoft says is the latest and greatest. You don't have to worry about Patch Tuesday, or 08. I've got that things that's gonna slow down my system for awhile. Microsoft needs to make that invisible to me. They do make that thing invisible to me. So does Amazon, so does Google. >> What's your number one company to watch, this upcoming year. Is it Amazon, Sam? Look, Amazon is the company at the center of it all. Their ecosystem is amazing. While Amazon adds more in revenue, than the number two infrastructure player does in revenue. So, look, in the cloud space, it is not only Amazon's world. There definitely is a multi-cloud world. I went to the Microsoft show for the first time, this year, and Microsoft's super-impressive. They focus on your business applications, and their customers love it. Office 365 really helped move everybody towards sass, in a big way, and it's a big service industry. Microsoft's been a phenomenal turnaround story, the last couple of years. Definitely want to dig in more with that ecosystem, in 2019 and beyond. But, Amazon, you know, we could do more shows of the CUBE, in 2019, than we did our first couple of years. They have, of course, Amazon re:Invent, our biggest show of the year, but their second year, it's about 20 shows, that they do, and we're increasing those. I've been to the New York City Summit, and the San Francisco Summit. I've already mentioned their Public Sector Summit. Really, really, really good ecosystems, phenomenal users, and I already told you how I feel about talking to users. It's great to hear what they're doing, and those customers are moving things around. Google, love doing the Google show. We'll be back there in April. Diane Greene is one of the big guests of the year, for us this year. I was sorry to miss it in person, 'cause I actually have some background. I worked with Diane. Back before EMC bought VMware. I had the pleasure of working with Vmware, when they were, like, a hundred person company. Sam, one of the things, I look back at my career, and I'm still a little bit agog. I mean, I was in my mid-20s, working in this little company, of about 100 people, signed an NDA, started working with them, and that's VMware, with 600,000 customers. I've watched their ascendancy. It's been one of the pleasures of my career. There's small ones, heck. Nutanix I've mentioned a couple of times. I started working them when they were real small. They have over a billion in revenue. New Cure, since the early days. Some companies have done really well. The cloud is really the center of gravity of what I watch. Edge computing we got into a bit. I'm surprised we got almost 20 minutes into this conversation, without mentioning it. That, the whole IOT space, and edge computing, really interesting. We did a fun show with PTC, here in Boston. Got to talk to the father of AI, the father of virtual reality. It's like all these technologies, many of which have been bouncing around for a couple of decades. How are they gonna become real? We've got a fun virtual reality place right next door. The guy running the cameras for us is a huge VR enthusiast. How much will those take the next step? And, how much are things stalling out? I worry, was having conversations. Autonomous vehicles, we're even looking at the space. Been talking about it. Will it really start to accelerate? Or have we hit road blocks, and it's gonna get delayed. Some of these are technologies, some of these are policies in place, in governments and the like, and that's still one of the things that slows down crowded options. You know, GDPR was the big discussion, leading into the beginning of 2018. Now, we barely talk about it. There's more regulations coming, in California and the like, but we do need to worry about some of those macro-economical and political things that sometimes get in the way, of some of the technology pieces. >> I'd love to put something out into the universe, here. If you could interview anyone in the world, who would it be? Let's see if we can make it happen. It's amazing to me, Sam, some of the interviews we've done. I got a one-on-one with Michael Dell this year. It was phenomenal, Michael was one. It took us about three or four years before we got Michael on the program, the first time. Now, we have him two or three times a year. Really, to get to talk to him. There is the founder culture John Furrier always talks about. Some of these founders are very different. Michael, amazing, got to speak to him a couple of times. There's something that makes him special, and there's a reason why he's a billionaire, and he's done very well for himself. So, that was one. Furrier also interviewed John Chambers, who is one of the big gets I was looking at. I was jealous that I wasn't able to get there. I got to interview one of my favorite authors this year, Walter Isaacson, at the shows. When I look at, Elon Musk, of course, as a technologist, is, I'm amazed. I read his bio, I've heard some phenomenal interviews with him. Kara Swisher did a phenomenal sit-down on her podcast with him. Even the 60 Minutes interview was decent this year. >> The Joe Rogan one was great >> Yeah, so, you'd want to be able to sit down. I wouldn't expect Elon to be a 15-minute, rapid-fire conversation, like we usually have. But, we do some longer forms, sit down. So he would be one. Andrew Jassy, we've interviewed a number of times now. Phenomenal. We've got to get Bezos on the program. Some of the big tech players out there. Look, Larry Ellison's another one that we haven't had on the program. We've had Mark Hurd on the program, We've had lots of the Oracle executives. Oracle's one that you don't count out. They still have so many customers, and have strong power in new issues, So there are some big names. I do love some of the authors, that we've had on the program, some thought leaders in the space. Every time we go to a show, it's like, I was a little disappointed I didn't get to interview Jane Goodall, when she was at a show. Things like that. So, we ask, and never know when you can get 'em. A lot of times, it's individual stories of the users, which are phenomenal, and there's just thousands of good stories. That's why we go to some small shows, and make sure we always have some editorial coverage. So that, if their customers are comfortable sharing their story, that's the foundation our research was founded on. Peers sharing with their peers. Some of the most powerful stories of change, and taking advantage of new technologies, and really transforming, not just business, but health care and finance, and government. There's so much opportunity for innovation, and drivers in the marketplace today. >> Stu, I love it. Thanks for wrapping up 2018 for us, and giving us the predictions. CUBE nation, you heard it here. We gotta get Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Larry Ellison on the CUBE this year. We could use your help. Stu, thank you, and CUBE nation, thank you for watching. (electronic techno music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hi, everybody, welcome to this CUBE conversation. My name is Dave Vellante. You know the software industry is going through dramatic change. Obviously cloud is a piece of that. The drive towards simplification. Gone are the days of multi tens of millions of dollar implementations that take years and years with highly-customized software modifications. Those days are gone. People wanna simplify. They wanna be agile. Carter Lloyds is here. He's with QAD, an ERP manufacturing software specialist. Carter, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me here. I'm excited to talk to ya. >> Yeah, so I'm learning more about your company. Love the story and I'd like you to share it with our audience. Give us the brief overview of who QAD is. >> Absolutely, so maybe we should start with where we came from. So, it was about 40 years ago in 1979. Karl Lopker, our founder, and Pam Lopker, our co-founder, were in Santa Barbara, California. Karl had a company that was making sandals and he was running into some manufacturing problems and he needed some help and he needed some software to make it easier for him to manufacture. Pam came along, she wrote some software for him. He was very successful. That company turned into Deckers which now owns Uggs and is doing some great things and they decided along the way that although sandals are interesting, they thought software was more interesting. So they founded QAD and for 40 years we've been very focused on helping to make manufacturing easier through cloud ERP software now. >> That's a great story, so Pam is the coder. She's the alpha geek. >> Exactly. >> And they solved their own problem and then said, okay, let's take this to market. >> Exactly and that's why manufacturing, it's in our DNA. It's in our roots and it's what we're passionate about. >> Well so the obvious question that people are gonna have is how do you compete with the big whales in the market, particularly SAP? >> Okay, fantastic. I heard a quote recently that I've really locked onto and it's from the founder of the World Economic Forum and the quote is that in the old days, it used to be the big fish that would eat the small fish but in today's world, it's the fast fish that eats the slow fish and we see that not only as a metaphor for our position within the ERP industry, but what our customers are going through right now. That with all the rapid change that's going on, it's not about how big you are in economies of scale. It's about how resilient you are and how fast you can adapt. >> Well, that's interesting. So you're a smaller company, obviously, than the multi tens of billions of dollars that SAP and Oracle and others, but you're talking like a startup. >> Yep. >> Agile, speed. Is that how you think about yourselves? >> Absolutely, I think a startup mentality is always great to have, but rapid, agile, and effective. We believe that those are the requirements of our customers within the manufacturing business and that's what we need to be able to provide. >> So let's talk more about the differentiation. I mean you can't be all things to all people as a smaller company and a company that wants to be agile so what are some of the areas that you're focused on where you're having successes. >> Okay, absolutely, so historically, we focused on manufacturing, but that's too broad so we're focused on six verticals within manufacturing. So it's automotive, life sciences, food and beverage, consumer-packaged goods, electronics, and high tech. I'm sorry, industrial. So those are the main areas that we're focused on right now but within that, we're seeing a lot of challenges for manufacturers within that area. Again, it's this concept of change. We believe that the only constant is change and legacy ERP systems simply weren't designed for change. If there was no change, the system that you installed eight years ago would work just as well today as it did eight years ago, but that's not what's happening. We're seeing a disconnect between the business requirements and what the systems are able to provide. >> Now is your strategy to sort of build greater functionality into the software that sort of maps to companies' business processes or is it that the software is super flexible and can be adapted? Maybe you could describe that a little bit. >> It's both. So to start with, we want to not deliver to our customers a framework on which they need to build out their processes but realize that there are best practices and there are common processes within, amongst companies within a particular niche and so we want to come to the table with the very best industry best practices that we can and we do that. We also recognize, though, that each company is slightly different and to simply say adopt best practices and you must do that is not the right way to go. So we believe that our software can get our customers to 90% of their requirements and that's world-class but for that last 10%, don't ignore them. If that's where your competitive advantage is, where your differentiation is, then we need to give you a way to be able to meet those requirements and a way that is simple and does not lock you in to the software that you currently have. >> Mh-m, okay so Carter you're a global company. Maybe you could give us a sense of the sort of scope of your operations. >> Absolutely, so our customers are global and they've taken us global. We support over 65 countries in terms of the regulatory requirements so that out of the box, our software is able to do that. We believe that's industry-leading. We have operations all around the world, direct and through partners. >> So you guys have been around for a while. When you step back and think about some of the big trends, obviously cloud, everything is becoming, you know, about server size, what are the factors that you look at that are, you're trying to make tail winds for your company? >> Absolutely, so we've spent a lot of time over the last couple of years thinking about disruptors. So what are the common themes in these changes that our customers are facing and we've narrowed that down to three top disruptors. So the first one is anything is a service. So end users now are demanding not just products but what that product can do and the classic example is people don't want drills. They want holes. Why are we selling them drills? And we're seeing that sweep across manufacturing. We've got a customer that delivers industrial equipment to fast food chains and they don't wanna simply buy fryers. They want to be able to fry things so they're asking that vendor to be able to provide it as a service to be able to monitor and intervene so that they have more fryer up time which makes sense. That's the first one. The second one that we see is make to scale it order or mass customization. People want things the way that they want them and that's getting more pervasive throughout the supply chain. And then the third one is the digital transformation of manufacturing which many people call Industry 4.0. >> So on that last piece, very data-oriented >> Yes. >> And so maybe talk a little bit about how your customers are using data to transform their business and what role you guys play. >> Sure. It's absolutely critical when we think about how data has transformed the world of the consumer, it's incredible. What you are now able to do on the internet, even tied to anything as a service. The concept that we don't own movies anymore. We don't own music. We get it delivered as a service to us but the first step in doing that is to really digitize manufacturing. So it starts with the acquisition of company data and value chain data and then using that to be able to measure and optimize process to improve performance. >> So cloud is obviously another big trend in your business. You guys have moved to a cloud operating model whether it's on-prem or in your cloud but talk about your cloud strategy and what you guys are doing there, maybe some of your product portfolio. >> Absolutely, so we were very early to the cloud. Our first product went to the cloud in 2003 before it was even called the cloud. I think we called it on demand then and that was a supplier collaboration tool. We moved our flagship ERP system to the cloud in 2007 and since then, we've been building it for the cloud, optimizing, designing and it was an incredible experience for us that really had customer benefits because once you start to become a service-provider rather than a product-provider, you see it through your customers' eyes. So, depending on your viewpoint, you're either eating your own dog food or drinking your own champagne and it led us to understand some of the pains that people have in implementing ERP systems and upgrading them and then to design fixes so the software goes in faster, easier, and can be upgraded to a much greater extent. >> And so if you're gonna be in the cloud, your customers obviously wanna avoid a lot of custom modifications. We heard earlier that's sort of one of your differentiations and am I getting that right? As your customers move to the cloud, they're minimizing the need to do custom mods? >> So I would caveat that a little bit. I think the need still exists for that last-mile functionality to meet the individual requirements of the company but we think that customizations are evil. We want to eliminate customizations but still give them the ability to deliver on that need through extensions and new applications that are written in a non-intrusive way and can float above the system and therefore the system can be upgraded without breaking those connections. >> We're having to go back inside to the guts of those what you just called the last mile, right? >> Absolutely, so our customers are in the manufacturing business. They're not in the software business and part of the cloud-value proposition is allowing our customers to do what they do best which is to make great products and serve their customers and let us do what we do best which is delivering software through the cloud to them. >> And so your cloud products and your on-prem products are sort of identical from a code-based standpoint. Is that correct? >> They are, exactly. We do not believe that cloud should be a compromise. Our customers demand full-functionality ERP. That's what we had delivered previously on-premise and that's what we deliver on the cloud so it is identical software. >> So go back to this digital transformation for a minute 'cause you do a lot of conferences with theCUBE. You hear that. What does that mean to your customers? It's not just a buzz word. Every customer you talk to saying, digital, digital, digital. It's the number one driver of our business. What does that mean to your customer base? >> Absolutely, so for us it's not about the technology itself. It's about the use case and how it can make them better manufacturers and make manufacturing easier. So there are a couple of different areas that we've been exploring and we do that through a very pragmatic approach and we call that QAD Labs where we work with our customers around their use cases and how we can apply technology to it. So one of the areas that we're working on right now is around machine learning and it's to help automotive suppliers to take some of the signals that they're receiving from the OEMs in terms of what the requirements are and make sense of it so that what they are planning on delivering closely matches what the ultimate requirement will be from the OEMs. The OEM signals often jump around quite a bit and through machine learning, we can make better sense and not necessarily replace the planner, but provide additional information suggestions to the planner to make them more efficient. >> So the outcome is better predictability, sort of less heavy-lifting? >> Absolutely, so, much better customer service, less expediting of materials, and then also lower inventory. >> Talk about QAD Explore. It's coming up in May. When is it? What can people expect? What's it look like? >> Absolutely, so we have our user conference. Our global user conference in New Orleans, Louisiana, May sixth through ninth. It's a fantastic event. We get very excited about it. I guess we could say we get jazzed about it since it's in New Orleans. It allows us to really think about our customers, to meet with our customers, to have our customers network with each other, learn best practices, and see what we're doing and how we're trying to help them. >> What's the format of Explore? Like you've got obviously keynotes. Is it one-day, two-day? Maybe describe that a little bit. >> Absolutely, so it's a three-day event. The keynotes are fantastic. We try to do short, TED talk-type events with some of our executives so you can hear about our strategy and what we're releasing. We bring in industry experts and experts around the future of manufacturing and the future of business so that our customers can start to see where their area might be headed so that they can start to make decisions about where we're going and then in the afternoons we tend to go into breakouts where we can do deep dives into our solutions and businesses so that they can really understand the benefits that are available to them. >> So customers obviously attending. Will they present as well? >> We do have customers presenting. That's one of the main reasons our customers come actually is to hear from their peers and how they're solving problems. It's really a fantastic event. >> Well the Big Easy in May is a good place to be. It's a fun town. >> It's not a bad place to be and it actually starts the day after Jazz Fest so we can't complain about that either. >> Alright Carter Lloyds thanks so much for coming to theCUBE. >> Thank you very much for your time. >> And giving us the overview of QAD. Alright and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante. We'll see ya next time. You're watching theCUBE. (light techno music)

>> Live from London, England, it's theCUBE covering .NEXT Conference Europe 2018 brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of Nutanix's .NEXT 2018 here in London, England. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host is Joep Piscaer. 3500 here in attendance. Actually in the closing keynote, we just listened to Dr. Jane Goodall talk about her life's work, her next, where she's going. Really powerful content here to help round out what we're doing. We're actually really thrilled to have as our penultimate guest to the program Chetan Conikee who is the founder and CTO of ShiftLeft.io, a customer of Nutanix based out in San Francisco. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you very much for having me Stu and Joep, pleasure. >> So Chetan, ShiftLeft.io, tell us a little bit about that. We love to hear from founders. What was the why, what did you see out there? What were you looking to do and then we'll get into it from there. >> Absolutely. We founded ShiftLeft back in December 2016. ShiftLeft is a venture-backed application security company. I co-founded ShiftLeft with the Chief Products Officer of FireEye and one of the core architects at Google. So our reason and emphasis to build out the security company was to essentially make security relevant to what they call as cloud-native applications. So ShiftLeft by virtue of the word meaning shift security to the left is bring securities awareness to the early stages of the software development lifecycle. As engineers write code, we have built a system that in a matter of minutes converts code to a graph, a graph akin to a social network. Almost like a social network graph except that it's connecting all the functions and variables in your code that represent the application. Now using that graph, we extract vulnerabilities that might exist in the code. Now as we know, engineers are focused on velocity, developing software and servicing their customers. So often security gets left behind, which is why we have built this autonomous agent that takes the data that we extracted during coding and protect the application in Runtime from imminent threats. >> Okay, we could spend an hour talking about this. Security is one of the hottest spaces, one of the biggest challenges in kind of modernizing this multi-cloud era, cloud-native absolutely. Maybe you'll be at theCUBE Con show in a couple weeks. We can talk even more about that because oh boy, so much to go there but you're a startup and what brings you to Nutanix is I guess the question. Come on, cloud-native, you should be born in the cloud. You're venture-backed, they probably don't want you spending lots of money on infrastructure. So maybe connect the dots with us as to how you ended up with Nutanix. >> Absolutely. The core ethos of ShiftLeft is observing, observing threats in real time and observing vulnerabilities that might exist in code. Observing means we have to make sure that our own infrastructure is protected from threats and at the same time we provide a high accessibility to our customers. Which means that we have to observe our own infrastructure which is why we subscribed early on to a Nutanix product called Epoch. Because the core essence of Epoch is to provide observability to infrastructure. Our infrastructure is very complex because every time engineers write code and commit code into GitHub or any other so-called management system, we react to that and at the same time if any threats are applied, when they deploy that code in production, we react to that as well. So it is important for us to maintain our uptime which is why we use Epoch to continuously observe our system for faults or any threats applied upon our own system and Epoch provides us that service, that service because our infrastructure is very complex. It is comprised of at least about 80 to 100 micro-services deployed in a cloud-native infrastructure. Now all these micro-services are working in concert with each other every time it receives an event, an event of a code check-in from a customer's ecosystem or any threats applied to our customers' infrastructure deployed in their private data centers or their cloud infrastructures. >> So let me get this right. You're a Nutanix customer but I'm guessing you're not the typical customer, right? You are not running their appliance in the data center but you're using different products. So I hear you mentioned Epoch which is observability. So that gives you insight into the system you are running. But to clarify, you're not running Nutanix in your data center? >> Absolutely, we are a cloud-native company. Our infrastructure entirely runs on Masels and Kubernetes which is deployed on AWS, Azure and GCP. So we are a multi-hybrid cloud ecosystem and Nutanix Epoch product is agnostic of the servers because it's a software-defined product that enables us to place hooks in the appropriate places of our software-defined or our software stack and then provide us the necessary observability. Observability from the perspective of latency, throughput or essentially any impact induced upon our infrastructure. >> So you are using it to monitor the sort of applications you're running in micro-services. So this is not even about infrastructure monitoring. This is about your application, it's uptime, error rates, thresholds, stuff like that. >> Absolutely because our system is comprised of a dense micro-service mesh which means that if one micro-service is down, it impacts a set of other micro-services which in turn impacts the customer as well. So what we do is try to identify cause and effect, correlate events and understand this dense and complex infrastructure. Nutanix Epoch has this cloud map feature that enabled us to dynamically plot the entire map of our infrastructure. This is almost akin to Google Maps because you can plot a from and to destination but upon that you might have traffic contention, accidents, tolls and everything else you can think of. So this is a similar situation with very dense and complex infrastructure as well, meaning if one service is down, it has this ripple side effect on other services as well. >> Yeah, I'm actually glad we got to interview you towards the end of our coverage here because one of the things we've been looking at is Nutanix has gone from basically two products to now they have a much broader portfolio. Some of those have been organically and some have been through acquisition. So Epoch which I believe is now under the Xi family, so Xi Epoch, I interviewed back in New Orleans, it was Netsil, Netsil came in through the acquisition. So I believe you've been using it since it was Netsil. >> Absolutely. >> What have you seen? I love kinda your outside viewpoint as to what's that meant to the product? Besides being renamed, what's the same, what's different and how do you see that impacting Epoch going forward? >> Absolutely, great question. For the most part the core product hasn't changed as much. The vision has always been carried on from what it used to be to what it is today. But the product has improved significantly. The user experience has improved significantly and now what they have is the foundation of Nutanix which is critical because there are various other product lines in Nutanix that can serve us better as well along with Epoch and we are looking forward to understanding what Beam is, what X-Ray is and there are various other product lines along with what we are already using at this point. >> Great, so I'm curious your experience here at the show. What brought you to the show? What conversations have you been having with your peers? We talked to Nutanix about what they're doing with the developers and about the cloud native space. How are they doing? You live in that space. How has Nutanix positioned themselves? >> Absolutely, I've been tracking Dheeraj and his crew for quite some time. I think they're doing a phenomenal job moving up the stack because eventually, being cloud native is critical at this point given that the majority of the new SMBs and SMEs are deploying in the cloud. So if Nutanix joins that bandwagon, it makes it relatively easy for Enterprise customers who have deployed in their own private data centers to cloud burst into Nutanix Enterprise Cloud. So over the past two days, the energy has been amazing. I presented with the Epoch crew and we got an amazing response, got to listen to customers. Their curiosity to adopting Epoch, given that they have been using Nutanix and also bursting into cloud native ecosystems as well which is why they want to understand and observe how their workloads are performing in the cloud. So very excited and looking forward to the future for the most part. >> So looking at your product, you deliver it, as I said service. You have software developers that develop that software and based on the announcements Nutanix has made in the last couple of days with Carbon and being able to develop cloud native apps, will that impact how you develop software or how you look at Nutanix as a partner for your company? >> We are growing at a very steady state and given that our core focus is security, some of our customers are on Wall Street which means that they have to ensure that they are deploying or subscribing to a service that has guarantees of its uptime and also that data is effectively protected. So we have commenced our journey as a cloud native company but that shouldn't impede us from moving into a private data center as well because our software fabric can be deployed both in a cloud native ecosystem and also on a private DC as well. So we're looking forward to working with Nutanix as a partner in the future as well if the opportunity permits. >> Yeah, so with the little time we have left, I want to get your viewpoint, talk to us about the security environment today. I'm an infrastructure guy by background and lived through, you've talked about virtualization. Been watching the containerization space, IOT greater increasing the surface area of everything. I know serverless is a whole can of worms as to how that fits in. So as we look to 2019 and going forward, what excites you and what worries you about the security space? >> What excites me is that, you know the surface is essentially getting abstracted. Back almost two decades ago, we were dealing with deploying in physical data centers on physical hosts. That transcended to VMs and then moved to Docker Unikernels and now we are speaking serverless. So in relatively, maybe in a click of a button or a single script, someone can deploy an application and that application can be scaled in a matter of minutes or seconds. So that's very exciting but what worries me is also that with the velocity and complexity, the risk is also getting amplified which means that applications are the target du jour. Applications were always the target du jour and they will continue to be as well because as engineers code even more faster, they will essentially always leave security behind. So it is important to understand the attack surface of the application because if we examine most of the recent attacks like Struts Equifax, the application was compromised and then the attacker laterally moved from host to host until they acquired or hit that asset, which is the data. So it is important to write secure software from the get-go and at the same time it is important to observe how a threat imposed by an adversarial entity correlates to a vulnerability. Which means that we have to be upfront and always observe our security from the very beginning of the software development lifecycle. So it equally excites me and worries me, which is why we decided to found ShiftLeft. >> All right, really appreciate getting to hear about ShiftLeft and your journey and what you're doing with Epoch, so thanks so much for joining us. >> Absolutely. >> And thank you for joining us. We'll be back with more coverage here from Butanix .NEXT 2018 in London, England. Thanks for watching theCUBE. >> Thank you. (up tempo electronic tones) >> Hi I'm John Walls, I've been with theCUBE for a couple of years serving as a host here on our broadcast, our flagship broadcast on SiliconANGLE TV. I like to think about the how's and the why's and the what's of technology. How does it work, why does it matter? What is it doing for end users? When I think about what theCUBE does and what it means, to me it's an off the chart benefit. The value is just immense because when theCUBE shows up, it puts a stamp of approval on your event that says man, you've arrived. I know you can't be everywhere. You'd like to be but what theCUBE--

(news theme music) >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to theCube's preview of Nutanix.next London 2018. Happy to welcome back to the program two friends of the program, Julie O'Brien who's the Senior Vice President of Corporate Marketing and Sunil Potti who's the Chief Product and Development Officer, both of Nutanix. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Yeah, it's great to be here again. >> Alright, so, we've been there since day one. I was actually, just recently down at the Fontainebleau in Miami reliving one of my favorite sets that we did. It was beautiful Miami colors, which match the bright green and blue of Nutanix with theCube. I've been to every single one of em. You have. The European version, which is the third year. We did Vienna. We did Nice. And now London. So Julie, start us in as what we can expect this year. >> Sure, we actually just finished our .next tour in APJ in the Americas. We were from Beijing to Boston. Over 20,000 registrants and 44 cities. So, now we're coming off of that and heading into the conference, which is our multi-day event. First time being in London for the multi-day conference. We have a great lineup of speakers. From a main stage perspective, Bear Grylls. Who you may be familiar with. "Man vs. Wild" He's a well known survivalist. I'm sure he'll have tips to connect what we survive every day in technology with what he survives in the wilderness. We're going to have Jane Goodall joining us. Renowned anthropologist. She's giving back to conservation. A phenomenal woman who's going to be on stage with me in a fireside chat. Cannot wait for that. Anna Alex from a startup in Berlin, called Outfittery. We always like to bring in some fun, interesting companies from the region. They're actually using a mashup of AI with their clothing business, to figure out how to dress elegant professionals, such as yourselves, with all of the right clothing items. So she should be a lot of fun. And then I did want to share something really special today. There's breaking news that we haven't shared anywhere else yet on one of our new main stage speakers. For those of you who are football fans, this gentleman was one of the top performing German national football team members, when he played. And his name is Michael Ballack. So, he'll be joining us and we're really excited about that. For all the Germans out there, hopefully they'll be thrilled. >> We'll do some light juggling on the keynote. (Julie laughs) >> One of the things I always love about this show is customers always want to expand their horizons, learn new products, get to know what they have even better, help their job, but also expand your mind some. You've had some great thought leaders on the program. I've had the opportunity of interviewing some of them on theCUBE, which is great. Authors I've read. Professors that you read their research. Thought leaders in the space. It's always fun. But, the main reason most people go to Sunil is to learn about the solutions that they have, learn about some of the cool new stuff, and you're always well dressed on stage, and helping the customers understand where things are today and where they're goin. So what can they expect from you? >> I think this time around, just like prior times, is going to be a bit of the continuation of the journey, which is what is practical about the company, is that the vision continues to be consistently evolving. In a sense that we've embarked on this two-part re-architecture of the enterprise cloud. And in the first act it was all about converging various silos of infrastructure. We called it the Invisible Infrastructure Era. And then we believe, and you'll see a lot of this in .next London, is that a little more light around the reality that we are on the cusp of the world of many clouds. From going from the world of many silos of infrastructure to the world of many clouds. And a lot more depth of products, beyond what we've done in the first act around invisible infrastructure transforming to invisible clouds, is what's going to be the underpinning of the keynote. >> You bring up something we've been watching at a lot of the shows and in our research, cloud was supposed to be, many people thought it's going to be simple and and it's going to be inexpensive, and what we've found is that it's often neither of those. We live in a multi-cloud world. Absolutely. The question I have for many users is, how did you get there? Was it by choice? Do you have a good plan and who's going to help you get your arms around things or have we recreated, through multiple clouds and applications everywhere, the silos that we were trying to collapse in our data centers before? >> And I think some of this is also going to be, just like in any problem-solving, define the problem well is 50% of the solution. So in some cases, in the world of multi-cloud, one of the things that we've had to give some time and it's right of passage, is to really characterize, when we say multi-cloud, most people think it's just public and private. So it's to really characterize the problem of the multiple clouds, or the multi-cloud era, actually is a construct of many public clouds, but the "private cloud" is becoming increasingly more dispersed or distributed. All the way into the remote office branch offices. But also all the way into what we are calling the edge. Part of what we're going to be talking about is a pretty reasonable understanding of how we've seen some of our early customers templatize their different kinds of clouds and then overlay the solution, to say it's not one size fits all, but you need, from an operational perspective, at least, something that can be a single control play. >> You're absolutely right. If you follow the applications and you follow the data, it's becoming even more dispersed. I remember the early days when I first spoke to Dheeraj, it was, oh are we taking a bunch of boxes and collapsing it? And what it came down to is the premise is the challenge of our time is software for distributed architectures. Five years ago we weren't talking about edge computing and IOT and all those things, but that's following along those trends. >> And I think one of the core technical themes you're going to see is that the last ten years of cloud has been about the era of scaling out. And that's proven now and there's more to be done. I think to really fulfill this next ten years, you're going to see this thematic view of scaling in. Especially when you scale small, which is a different art than scaling out, to some extent. Especially if you want to solve problems at the edge, you want to do it consistently, so that you can actually follow the app, as the apps transform. Some of these newer architectural paradigms have to be understood. So that's going to be an underlying theme there. >> And edge computing, we know, is a really hot topic amongst our customers and this year we're going to have an API accelerator lab. So in New Orleans we had a hackathon, now we're going to do it a little bit differently. This is going to be really focused on giving people an opportunity to get their hands involved in our IOT product, along with some nooks as well. So it should be a lot of fun for people. This is a great area and it is a great application for that multi-cloud, distributed edge kind of environment. >> Great, so November 27th through 29th, in London. We're going to have two days of theCUBE, of course go to thecube.net and watch the program. Nextconf has always been the hashtag. I want to give you both the final takeaways, what people should tune into, other than, of course, watching your keynotes and theCUBE coverage. >> I think you'll see a lot on social media, hopefully to stay involved with all of the innovation that we're going to be announcing. You're going to hear a lot from the breakout sessions. People will be tweeting from those sessions. We have more than 60 breakout sessions across a range of topics, for people that are in different phases of their journey with us. Whether it's just hyperconverged infrastructure, whether it's blockchain, whether it's IOT and they're starting to think about the multi-cloud hybrid environment too. So there's going to be a lot of great information coming out of the events. Sunil? >> I think you covered it all, but in general there's going to be a lot of cool stuff, both people-wise, as well as technology-wise. But I think, hopefully, the common theme that every body will participate in is this construct of this whole Nutanix-vibe of dreaming big, acting fast, and having fun. >> Okay, good. Julie and Sunil, thank you so much. And also breaking news, we're actually going to have a first on the program. We've got my first European cohost for a multi-day event, Joep Piscaer, who's cube alumn, been on a couple of times. And what I'm actually looking for our audience, I'd like to do my first non-english interview on theCUBE. Joep is fluent in Dutch. He's going to be taking the train into London. I would love to be able to do a short segment, preferably a user, but would welcome a thought leader, a partner, or somebody in there to be able to. As we've expanded our coverage, we did our first Chinese event last year. We've done many in Europe. We did our first Middle East show in Bahrain just a couple of weeks ago. So look for that. Like Nutanix, we're all over the globe with what we've done. Julie and Sunil, thank you so much. For Stu Miniman, once again, thank you for watching theCUBE. (news theme music)

>> Live from Washington, D.C., it's theCUBE! Covering Inforum D.C. 2018. Brought to you by Infor. >> Good afternoon, and welcome back to the Walter Washington Convention Center, we're at Inforum 2018, here live on theCUBE, John Walls with Dave Vellante, and it's a pleasure now to welcome the CEO of Infor, Charles Phillips with us. Charles, good to see ya! >> Good to see you guys again, another year. It's great, it's great. >> Yeah, I tell ya, you are a man of demand aren't you? I mean, tell me about the week so far for you, how it's gone, and just your overall thoughts about the show? >> Yeah, it's been a fun Inforum for 2018 here. Great attendance, and a lot of energy level, and the common feedback we get is you guys just keep innovating and bringing new things, this is great, and that's why they come, they want to see what we're working on and kind of dream the art of the possible. We know what you, what we think you get a couple years ago, but if we don't have someone pushing us and painting a picture of what we could be doing, and we just think we might be missing it, so we want to hear it first hand. So that's what the conference is about, and hopefully they got that. >> Well, certainly thematically, human potential, you talk about that, you see that on the keynote stage, that's been a very consistent theme with our guests here, we've heard that a lot, you hear it down on the show floor. Talk about the theme if you would, a little bit, in terms of it's development, where that came from, and in how you think that's being expressed here this week. >> Well, we're one of the few companies that build mission critical operational systems, be it manufacturing or hospital operations, but we're also in HCM in a big way. And so we were talking to kind of both sides of the house, for some applications you're talking to the line of business manager, but for HCM you're talking to the CHRO, and rarely were those two people talking, and we saw obvious synergies. Don't you want to know how your people are doing, how to allocate people, and how they're performing, how they're changing the outcomes on a manufacturing floor or in a hospital, and a lot of HR directors weren't thinking like that because they think of HR, and they have their own world, they go to HR conferences and that's it. And the manufacturing guys are the same thing, and so we're trying to bring these two worlds together and say "Actually, you're in the same business, it's the same goals, and you actually could help each other a lot." And so by focusing on putting the employee at the center of all these applications and mapping all these operational processes to HR data, it's a different way of thinking about the role of HR. They can actually help drive the business, not just be an administrative function, and so it's resonating with a lot of the CHROs we met with, 'cause they want a seat at the table, they want to be more strategic, and this is a way for them to do that and at the same time the operational people want to know how their people are doing, want to develop talent, and want to know what are the tools out there I could be doing differently, and how am I doing, and which employees are working the best So, I think we can bring both sides together. >> So I first met Infor through AWS, at re:Invent, Pam Murphy came on, and we were like Infor? Back then it was like 2012, 2013 was kind of Infor who? And then we were invited to New Orleans, and then started to learn more about your micro-vertical strategy and a little bit about the platform, it was somewhat opaque to me. And now, fast forward last year and this year it's really starting to come in to view. The OS, the platform vision, the Birst acquisition, and of course Coleman, and I'm a sucker for platform plays especially when there's real R&D behind it that's actually having a business impact. So I wonder if you could talk about that piece of the strategy, I love the stack, was that sort of always your vision and now you're getting aggressive in it, did it sort of come together serendipitously, how'd we get here? >> Having our own stack and a platform was always the vision, but it's a lot harder to do than it sounds like, and it takes time. And so, when we arrived almost eight years ago, there were different applications, all had their own separate stacks and would say "This is not going to work." So, we need, just to be able to scale, to be able to serve multiple industries with different products, we can't have every development organization building their stack as well. So we set about taking that away from the development groups we're going to do this as a shared service, but it takes time, and as we build it you will adopt components of it. So what's changed is we've built out the entire stack, so, starting with ION, with integration, then we added document management, workflow, analytics, now AI and a lot of other services, Mongoose, platform as a service, on and on and on, in collaboration, those things took time, they're all on a single platform, federated security, single siloed across it all, and now it makes the developers job who's developing apps so much simpler. So they have Infor OS for the immediate platform, for cloud services they have AWS, I don't have to worry about any of those things anymore, just go and develop industry functionality. So, it's come together nicely, but the fact that we had the time to do it and the money to do it, and we weren't public, and we told our investors "This is the only way this is going to scale, this is the future, and it'll pay out later, you just got to trust us." And now that we've gotten there, they're seeing the synergy and go "Okay, now we see why you did that." >> So, Michael Dell's been on theCUBE many times, he used to talk about the 90 day shot clock, we obviously see what he's done in terms of transforming; but I want to talk about your business a little bit, because you've had that patient capital, I mean you're a quasi-public company in the sense that you do report so we can see the numbers on the income statement, but the income statement doesn't really tell the whole story It's about three billion in revenue, several hundred billion dollars on the balance sheet, but if you look at the SaaS component of it it looks rather small, maybe about 25% of the business, but from a booking standpoint I'm sure it's much, much larger than that. So how should we interpret the income statement in terms of the momentum in your business, where is all the action? >> So as a percentage of our sales, it's the highest of any of our competitors, so, about 70% of our new sales are on SaaS, we have about a $700 million SaaS business, so it's growing. There's nothing we can do about the maintenance piece of it, if it's related to perpetual, so if you take that out, it's a big percentage of our business. And over time the maintenance will turn into SaaS, so that's one of our big opportunities to look at that maintenance space and say "Move those over to cloud customers." and that's usually a financially lucrative thing for us to do, because we do even more for them, because they usually add on four or five other products when they move, they replace these third party products and so we get a bigger suite of products if they decide to move to the cloud. So that's part of the strategy, that's what UpgradeX is, let's move you from on-premise, so that maintenance revenue will turn into SaaS revenue, but bigger SaaS revenue over time. >> So let me make sure I understand, so it's not the classic case where you see a lot of software companies that are going from a perpetual model to a ratable model, you're goin' from a maintenance model which is ratable to a ratable model which is SaaS, but there's cohorts sales which increase the top line, is that correct? >> Exactly. So usually, because of what we do, we're doing something mission critical. So if you're going to take that, then you should do ACM financials, all the other things around it. So why would I move to core and leave the edge on-premise? So, almost by definition we have to do the whole suite. So when we do that it expands the deal, 'cause on-premise we may have been one vendor with 30 other ones existing, but the whole reason they want to get out of all of that is to move to the cloud and simplify. So we can't take all that with us, so we have to have the full suites, we've built that now. So now we can move them, but, it expands the size of the deal because we're replacing all these other products. >> Okay, and then some of the stats, just correct me if I don't get this right. Your SaaS business grown 50% faster than Oracle's, growing at a rate, I'd say 2X SAP's and a rate comparable to Workday, are those correct figures? >> Those are correct, and profitable. >> Oh, and profitable. >> Throw that in. (all laugh) >> Right, so okay. And then last year Koch Industries invested, so you kind of recap the company, you've made a big deal about that. One of the things that we've noted is you're seeing a tailwind there in terms of guys like Accenture and Capgemini, we've asked them "Do you guys service Koch Industries?" they said "Yep!" they helped us see the opportunity, and they said "Look, look for something substantive, we're not going to try to force you to do something, but we want you to take a look." So that's been helpful. Talk about that and maybe other things Koch has brought to the table? >> It's a, the relationship with the integrators is evolving, it probably was not a plus for us in the first four, five years. More recent years we've won enough deals where they had to say "Okay, we can't keep losin' these deals." And where they wanted to get engaged. Koch helped, because they had relationships and they wanted to run that business, that's why they're implementing our products globally, and so, they're a large customer for all of these guys, and one of the largest for Deloitte for instance, but what's really more-- that helped, but it was more the, what was happening in the market, the fact that we're in a Liberty Steel and replace SAP, or that we're in a Travis Perkins interview with SAP and Microsoft, so, if you're on the wrong side of those deals enough times your manager starts to ask you what's goin' on, and you got all these people on the bench here, okay, we train them for Infor if they're winning in that region, or in that industry. So, we just had to earn our way into it, our initial strategy was not one that, at least on the surface, looked like it was integrator-friendly because we were trying to take all those mods they like to do and put 'em in the product, and that's the whole thesis, let's the take the vertical industry features and let's put it in there once, I don't want everybody customizing my apps, we do that. And so now they've had to move up, okay we can do other things, configuration, changed management, there's AI, there's other things you can do, but you're not going to do that. So now that they've accepted that, there's a basis for us to work together, and, it just had to take time to get there. >> What can you tell us about where you want to go with this? I mean you've presided over public companies before, you know that business well, you were a rockstar analyst, is there an advantage to being a public company, is that something that you eventually want to do? >> I would say there are pluses and minuses, our board is evaluating that, that's going to be their call. The upside is, it would solve probably our biggest challenge which is brand recognition, almost instantly, because would be a top 10 tech IPO. It makes it a little easier to hire people because they can see public currency, they can value more quickly, and it gives you some acquisition currency; so those are the positives. But then you're on the 90 day cycle, and we're kind of on that anyway, 'cause we report publicly and we have publicly traded bonds. So for us it's, in some sense we have the worst of all worlds, right? We have the discipline of being a public company, and the scrutiny, without the capital, (laughs) and the branding, so. I think that's what everybody's evaluating. Every bank on Wall Street's visiting us telling us to go now, the window's great, you have the numbers. >> Oh, of course. (Dave and John laugh) >> And so, so we could do it, I just don't know what their decision's going to be. The advantages to being private as well, you have a little more flexibility obviously, and, we don't need the capital, we have plenty of capital coming from Koch and others who want to invest. >> Well, the flip side of that too, is you get to write your own narrative, right? >> Yeah. >> I mean, we're talkin' about the nuances of the income statement, the Street is obviously right now hooked on growth heroin, and if you got the transition in the base it doesn't become a tailwind, so, no rush from that standpoint. I want to pivot to the theme of this event, which is the human potential. My understanding is you sort of were instrumental in coming up with that. HCM this year got a big play on stage, where's that come from? >> Yeah, just as I talk to CEOs who are struggling to find talent, like I mentioned on stage 6.7 million jobs that are unfulfilled. It's not like we don't have people here, we have people here with their own skills, so, you're not going to fill those jobs any other way, we're not doing immigration to any degree and scaling more, that's been shut down. We have an aging population with the baby boomers, so the most logical thing that you would do is train people who are already here who want to work. And, let's take people who have jobs that they probably aren't thrilled about, and give them different skills so they can fill these 6.7 million jobs. So to do that, you have to make these applications easier to use, and I felt like we're probably in the best position to do it because we actually know what they do for a living, 'cause we wrote all those last features in those industries, we understand what they do. And if you're just doin' HR replication or financials, you actually have no idea what they do. So, we had to learn those jobs to automate those jobs, so we can find ways to use our HCM applications to better train people, professional development, coaching, take all these HR skills, and put them as part of the applications in the context of while you're working. >> We had Anne Benedict on just a little bit ago talking about really a test case that you can be for yourself. So how are you putting these things to practice yourself, and how are you working out maybe some kinks before you take them out to somebody else? And so, you can leverage your own success for your own success, and also learn from mistakes too I would think. >> We do. So we have this program called Infor at Infor, where everything we do, we want it to be on an Infor product, which was not the case when we arrived. Like a lot of companies, a mish mash of different things, and so we've implemented not only HR Financials of course, Birst, but the big innovation has really been talent science, that every employee we hire has to take that test, and all the executives have taken it as well. And what we've discovered is, is that, when people hire and go against the talent science recommendation, 68% of the time they end up being wrong. So it's better at judging people than people are sometimes, and you can't use it exclusively, but it'll tell you these are the things you should look into, some questions you might want to ask, here's how they rate on certain skillsets, they're very well meshed for this job, they look like they'd see their best performance in this area, but ask these questions. And so people don't know how to interview and how to think about this, and so, having a guide to go into an interview is actually pretty helpful. We hire much better people now by using that. >> So it's like StrengthsFinder in a way? >> No, it's different from that, this is AI, it's kind of Moneyball for business people. >> Well you're talking about that today, almost there. >> Yeah so it's 39 personality attributes, behavioral attributes we call them, so, empathy, resistance to authority, do you have the ambition or not, and depending on the job, you think all those things are good, depends on the job, so. For some jobs, it's actually better to have low ambition because, a lot of our customers who have low wage, fast food service jobs, people who have ambition are going to leave in four months, right? They're not going to stay, so, okay we're not going to be here long, at least know that going in, and know who wants to get promoted, and other people are fine with it. And so it depends on the mix of skills, just like I said, 39 attributes, and for that job role, you tune it to the people who like that job, they look like this. And, we've also found that it's 60% more diverse when you hire using science, because you don't know that when you're looking at the data, what they look like. >> It must've been super interesting getting those reports. You took it, obviously right? >> Yeah I took it. >> How'd you do? (laughs) >> Uhhh, nobody really likes their profile. (all laugh) >> I was going to say, I imagine I would be really defensive about this, oh I don't know. >> This can't be right! >> That is not me! I am not like that! (all laughing) >> Every person on our executive team said the same thing so. That's what it's for is to, you have certain perceptions even about yourself, and it calls it out, right? And there's no gaming the system because the questions have no right or wrong answer, it just puts you in scenarios that you answer what would you do, how do you feel about this? You're not clear what they're trying to get at, and you only have 27 minutes or 22 minutes to do the test. >> So you can't game it? >> You can't game it. >> Data doesn't lie! >> And we built the science, we know when someones trying to game it, they're taking to long on multiples, and changing their answers too much, so it's-- And we've now, I think we've tested some 200 million people over time, over years, so we have 20 years of data about people. >> That's, I mean, sounds unique, certainly unique of being infused into enterprise software, I've not seen anything like this from another enterprise software company. Can you confirm that, or? >> Yeah, so, we're the only ones that do this at scale, there's a few startups trying to do it, but they're trying to do it all facial recognition which is, we think pretty ridiculous, we're trying to get away from physical attributes not use that. So there's a company out there doing that, depending on your facial movements, but this is, we're eliciting responses about your personality in response to situations that we give you, and have a bunch of scientists that crunch the data and they basically shape it to the job role. And they test your best performance, and you get a DNA profile for your best performance for that job role, and then, that's what you're matching, and it's highly accurate. So we had a company on the Las Vegas Strip use it, because they have to hire in volume a lot, and essentially what they wanted to do was get better blackjack dealers. You need somebody that's good at math, good under pressure, not too emotive, don't give away anything; and so we did that, fine tuned the test, they call us back nine months later and said "We need you to change the test." We said "We did exactly what you wanted, what happened?" He said well, the winnings went up 30%, but everybody's leaving the hotel in 24 hours 'cause they lost all their money, so we don't need them to be that good. (all laugh) >> Dial it down a little bit. >> Which we did. And so that's part of the service is we fine tune it, you tell us what your goals are, and we'll tune to that. >> That's a great story. The other surprise for me this week has been the emphasis on robotic process automation, it's a space that we've kina looked at. And a lot of people are scared about software robots replacing humans, but if you talk to people who are using RPA, they love it. It's taking away these mundane tasks, I didn't realize that you guys had such capabilities there? >> Yeah, so we built that as part of a Coleman RPA platform, and not only can we automate and use RPA for ourselves, but we've built a whole development environment for our customers to build their own, 'cause we can't think of every process that they might want to automate, and we gave that platform to our partners as well, so. We don't want them doing database schema work anymore, and they used to get paid for that, there's other things you can do up the stack in AI, here's what we want you to focus on. So we had that meeting on Monday with the partners, and they all agreed that's what we're going to do. But there's tons of mundane things that people shouldn't be spending time on, and they can be much more productive, it makes them more loyal to the company, they're enjoying their job more, and they're thinking and innovating more. So I don't see it as replacing people, as making people better. And giving that engagement that I talked about during the keynote, they're engaged now, because they can do things that are more value adding now. >> So, back to New Orleans next year? That's the first Inforum that theCUBE was ever at was in N'Orleans, and, jazz, you like jazz, obviously, right? >> I like jazz, I met with the mayor when I was down there, Mitch Landrieu at the time, and he became a customer after that meeting, so the city of New Orleans runs on Infor software, it's another reason to go there; so thank you. >> You've get--nice. >> Yeah, thank you Mitch, so that worked well. And so as a thank you we're going back down there, they're a big customer now, and it's always fun, you know what I mean, you know. >> That's great. >> Just, before you go, you mention, I watched in the keynote this morning, Brooks Koepka. >> Yes. So you're working with him. I do a little bit of work on the golf side as well, so I was just intrigued because, he's not the, well he's not Tiger, right? >> Yeah. >> U.S. Open Champion, twice over. What was the attraction to him, and then can you play in the golf world a little bit, and with those brands, and is that an entry into that world? >> Well, we always like to bet on the scrappy guy, the next up and coming generation guy, and that's kind of our brand that's what we are, the Brooklyn Nets, someone who's not quite there yet, but they're moving up, that's kind of our scrappiness, that's why we like the whole Brooklyn image as well. And we started talkin' to him, like I said, before he won the U.S. Open, because he was ranking pretty high, moving up, but wasn't well known. A quite guy, very personable when you meet him, we thought he'd be good in front of clients, let's bet on his career, and we're going to work with him; and literally three weeks later he wins the U.S. Open, we go "Okay." (all laugh) >> Good grab! >> We'll take it! (laughs) So, we didn't even think it'd happen that quickly, and now he's a rockstar so. We were planning on hosting a CX event with him, and, we're not sure how many people are going to come, but when that happened, now, everybody RSVP'd right away of course. So now it's doing exactly what we wanted. >> Do you play golf? >> I don't play golf, I just started playing, 'cause we were doing these golf tournaments with customers over the last year, but I haven't had enough time to get out there yet. >> I'll bet Brooks would give you a lesson or two. (laughs) >> Yeah, he, a lot of people want to lesson from him. >> Charles thank you >> Alright, thank you guys, >> for the time, great show. >> Good to see ya again. See ya in New Orleans. >> Thank you, yeah. >> Congratulations. >> Alright guys, see ya. >> Wonderful week here in Washington, D.C. Back with more live on theCUBE here from D.C. right after this. (bubbly music)