(upbeat music) [Narrator] Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Inforce 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its ecosystem partners. >> Everyone, welcome back to the CUBE'S live coverage here in Boston for AWS re:Inforce, Amazon Web Service's inaugural event. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Dave Vellante, two days of wall to wall coverin'. Christian Beedgen is the CTO and co-founder of Sumo Logic. A couple we've covered on theCUBE many times as well as on our siliconANGLE.com. Great to see you thanks for coming out. >> Thanks for having me. >> Being the co-founder you've seen it, you guys are celebrating your tenth year. >> That's right. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you very much. >> theCUBE is now 10 years old this year too, >> Oh right on. >> So we're kind of in school together growing up. (laughing) >> Started right here. >> We're going to graduate together, right on. >> We'll go have a cocktail later maybe talk about some tech. I love talkin' tech. >> Yeah of course. >> Lets get into it. As the co-founder and CTO you've seen your journey. You guys have been doing great. You've seen the waves of big data. >> Yep. >> You've seen the evolution of cloud coming in. >> Yep. >> The infrastructures standing up more and more efficient, more effective. Game is changing, stakes are higher, what's your view of this industry right now? >> I think its on fire really, right? So, you know, on one level we have this, I think its fairly well known at this point that the data now today follows Moore's law right? So we have basically data grows you know, roughly two x year over year. That's exponential growth and that's pretty incredible, right? I think every business now knows or, you know, they either know or they act on it or they sort of know it at least, you know, subconsciously right? That they are essentially in a race to sort of optimize, their own business mostly based on data. >> In your opinion, Christian, what was the inflection point of the past few years? When did the data market really change for the highly accelerated we're seeing now because back in 2010 when you guys started when we started, we saw Hadoop just getting out of the blocks. >> Yep. >> People were standing up Hadoop clusters and being proud of it but then cloud came. Was there a point in time when you say, you know that was really the flash point where things started tipping over, or was cloud adoption or was it AI machines, was the machine learning? Where do you see that kick up on the growth of emphasis? >> So you know the Hadoop stuff basically came out of the ad optimization being you know businesses and that was like a small set of companies that really had to do that in order to basically compete with each other. And then we sort of got open source versions of that and then we'd got behind them after we'd do a small model and teaching people how to do that. I think in my mind I have sort of two things. One was you know, the whole of management space that I came out of and you know where I still am today coming out of, the security information of in management and you know a lot of management underneath. Semi-structure data, you know nasty data that doesn't fit into our relational data base. You know they are sort of-- and then lots and lots of that data as you put all the firewall data in there, we saw that back at dark side, where I spent a considerable amount of time. You know that becoming a problem that, like enterprise software that was kind of delivered, you know on a CD and then oh now go scale Oracle behind it, as in even data warehouses. That's kind of how I experience it. It just didn't really work very well, and we were kind of doing big data or trying to do big data. There were like various levels of success, right. We've already knowing about the term and then, you know, obviously, picked up on a new Windows type, so things and then, you know, but if you want to do big data or something like Hadoop, then you're suddenly running into having to run, you know, I don't know, a hundred instances. I'm already saying instances. A hundred boxes, 80 you know back then, or like maybe 500 boxes, and now you're running into all of the management, you know, challenges that distributed infrastructure brings. And in my mind, you know since you're like asking for an inflection point, I think Amazon EMR, you know, and my friends at Cloudera, they're not going to like me saying that because that's a long story but I think having something like Hadoop, put on an infrastructure as a service platform like Amazon and I think they did that fairly early on, right. I think it's still a great product. >> Cloud-scale's a lot faster, it emphasizes, it more, you can do more with it. >> Exactly. >> IoT comes around now you're connected, devices are coming in, natural place to just put that data lake as they now called it, and work with it. >> Exactly, exactly. So I think that's one inflection point and then the second one I think clearly was sort of the advancements especially around deep learning and so forth, right, where, you know, I think a lot of that, you know the deep mind stuff and so forth, where now along with the sort of exponential growth of data where there's also now much more sophisticated analysis that people want to run. I think that's another inflection point. >> Yeah, so 2010 you saw cloud and data coming together and obviously you guys saw the need to secure that. What are the challenges of securing these massively distributed systems? >> Oh, there's a number of challenges, but, you know, it starts with sort of this basic law that says that, you know, that, you know processing data creates more data. Right, and if you look what business systems do, they're basically, you know, just like really fancy pocket calculators at life scale, right, but it's all about processing data. That's what computing means, right. And then as you do that it actually turns out that you create more data, which is all the logs, all the telemetry, the metrics tracing all of this type of stuff. And so these data sets become their own kind of, you know, big data nightmares potentially, right, but at the same time, they're full of, you know, really useful information to maintain availability performance, you know, to secure your systems and so forth. And I think the main challenge that we are seeing today with systems like ours and what's out there in the market is, you know, actually being able to scale. And it becomes almost an aggressive thing, it's kind of funny. >> You know, I got to ask you about the digital transformation equation that's out there. People, process, technology. I think people generally would agree that, hey, cloud's great, love deep learning, I mean how could you not, you know, get intoxicated on large-scale resources that's almost free and AI around the corner. It's good stuff, I mean pretty cool, right? And then the reality sits in, like you can't just hand wave it in, You got to hire people, you got to have the tech to do it, and then the process. And you made a profound comment before we came on camera, process is a reflection of culture. This is a really a big deal in the digital transformation. So, there are people out there, people are getting trained, there's a course you can take, you can buy technology that's getting better every day. Process seems to be where everyone's getting caught up on it and there's new ways to break through it and it's just a reality. What's your thoughts on process as a reflection of culture and how people can handle that and what people should think about? >> That's a good question. So I think what I'm seeing is that when we, we see a lot of companies at various stages of their sort of journey into the cloud. We come from the Bay Area so we have a lot of born in the cloud guys like ourselves and there's sort of a new culture that's kind of baked in from the beginning, but that's interesting. The even more interesting bits, in my mind, are when we are looking at companies that have been around for a long time. They basically, they're starting to realize that cloud transformation is almost more about basically picking up a culture of agile DevOps and then DevSecOps or whatever you want to call it. Apparently somebody at the keynote today made a nasty comment about it. Personally I didn't see it but again the whole Shift Left paradigm, but it's essentially a culture where you actually remove the silos that have been in place between departments, keeping people from working closely together, throwing stuff over the wall we all know how well that works, trying to keep your fiefdoms. And I find that all the successful cloud transformations stories that we've seen are really a decor, you know, cultural transformation stories, along the sort of plus minus DevOps route. >> So you're talking about the big challenge being scale, so two things you just said, well one is bringing together the mindset of infrastructure's code, we were talking about security as code. The other is automation, right. >> Absolutely. >> So that seems to be big focus of security practitioners. >> Yep. >> My question is, what's a good day look like to a security practitioner? >> Oh, I think, that's another really good question. I think there's an obvious answer, but I think the obvious answer would be I'm still in business, right, and I haven't leaked millions of Social Security numbers. >> Nothing happened, good day! >> And so I think that is definitely a good day but I think the sort of slightly more, I think, interesting answer is that I think a good day is day where you as a security practitioner have a bunch of good interactions with the rest of the folks in the company that are part of building products, on the operational side, on the development side, giving good feedback maybe to a bunch of developers maybe on secure coding practices, plugging in additional Veolia monitoring or code monitoring or scanning tools into the bill pipeline and so forth. And then also actually getting a bunch of alerts from all your monitoring systems and being able to very quickly figure out whether those are true positives or false positives and when they are true positives, being able to quickly react on them. >> So you guys, obviously cloud focused, that's a huge area for you, but I'm interested in how you say you differentiate. It's an extremely competitive market. What's your big differentiator? When you win, why do you win? >> So, it goes back to somewhat of a fundamental kind of things that led us to start the company. It's a little philosophy heavy, I guess, but it actually plays its way out in every single customer conversation, and every displacement and every time we end up expanding in the customer. And it's fundamentally that our philosophy is that this needs to be delivered as a service. That, you know, our philosophy is that enterprise software is just not a thing anymore. And our philosophy has always been that. >> It's very true. >> It's a good philosophy. >> It some days feels like, man, Christian, you've been saying the same thing for the last 10 years and here we are. Our philosophy is that you need monitoring, you need troubleshooting tools, you need security tools. Those tools themselves should not become behemoths in their selves where you're going to sink endless amount of resources and money into scaling and building them out and then who's going to monitor those? It's kind of you have a huge installation of vendor X and then how does that get monitored because if you don't monitor it then that thing will blow up and then you're blind again. So we just felt that this idea, what was really appealing to us from our experience was the idea that build the code but also run the code with ultimately get the customer back to actually using the tool rather than worrying about how the tool works underneath and having to worry about how to make it works. And we're all nerds and I love it and I wish I could understand all the stuff that happens in AWS underneath and every once in a while I meet some of these guys and it's very cool but that's where they deliver differentiation. And for us we can basically focus on delivering value to the customer. >> I think the cloud model, I think, shows everyone that you can deliver stuff as service, you have horizontal integration points that you need to keep aware of, certainly the data, you need horizontally scalability and freedom of access to the data and that brings up the goodness. I think that's a great philosophy, we subscribe certainly with you on that. You had mentioned earlier about alerts and one of the conversations that we're hearing around workforce and people is how many extra people are being deployed properly cause if everything's a service, then you can, if automation kicks in, and things are at service, you can eliminate things. So, one of the trends that we're hearing is the move from threat detection to alerts. >> Okay. >> Threat detections you can automate that and you can share data so the shared stuff kicks in. So that's a new kind of trend we're seeing alerts, quality alerts, having your people work on those kinds of problems, what to pay attention to on the monitoring side, becomes super important. Two years ago you couldn't walk down the street without threat detection, threat detection, threat detection. Although important, these mechanisms for that now. So what's your thoughts on the ongoing evolution from threat detection to alerts? >> I think it's about dehumaning the end. And all the machines are just sitting there, creating signals and we can have the discussion about AI and you know generally AI and all these sorts of things, I don't really believe that that's going to happen anytime soon. But I do like algorithmic approaches, I like the power of data analytics. Sometimes it's simple analytics that give good signals, sometimes it's complicated and very sort of sophisticated analytics, but in the end, none of these things can really capture any sort of objective truth and so it ends up in somebody's queue and then they got to burn through it. And that is fundamentally, again, a human problem in the best sense because I think that's we as humans, we have processing capabilities that have not been matched. >> And also humans want to hoard the data too. They're, "Aw I want to protect." And if you share the data, more transparency, better algorithms, better visibility, better alerts. >> Exactly. I do think, to a point, I think in the security space now, of course there's still a lot of hype around just add AiN you're going to be better but the reality is that this can only go so far. And it ends up in somebody's queue and analyst workflow, how do you treat ash incidents and so forth. How much time do you spend trying to figure out whether it's a true positive or a false positive, that all matters because no detection system will be perfect at only alerting you on true positives. >> I heard a comment the other night in the bar area, someone was commenting around security analytics and they said, "Yeah, if you don't really know what you're looking for, and you rely too heavily on these metrics, you end up with Chernobyl." Which, the Netflix series that's out about how they just following data >> AC-5 >> So they're you can just, if you're looking at the data too hard, not zooming out and taking a humanistic approach, why are you measuring something, why are you monitoring something, what is a quality signal? >> Look, I think it's fundamentally, this is all just tools. I'm a strong believer in, I don't know whether, I'm sort of a strong believer in the humans run the show. And I think that's what makes us human, right, I think outsourcing everything to an algorithm, especially when algorithms are making decisions about humans, that's like a wider topic, it gets very tricky and it usually backfires pretty quickly. >> So the security marketing narrative for decades has been fear. You're in trouble, you're in trouble, you got to be sure. Amazon put forth today in the keynote that the state of cloud security, the state of the union, is actually quite good and the focus should be on how to implement new tooling and we're actually really doing a great job. Do you buy that? >> To some degree. I do think that they're paying a lot of attention. I do like stuff that they've done from the beginning like security groups being deny all and all of those things. And they have a bunch of really smart guys over there that really care and worry about this type of stuff. I think they've also learned over the years in their own move towards selling from this side that's selling to a bunch of hipsters and then it started becoming a real enterprise play that all of these things are important, including having really good outage fail data and cloud trail and these types of things. The part that I like and we've argued this from the very beginning with our prospects when they basically kept saying you're putting the data in the cloud and how can I trust that? And we walk them through carefully in how we had designed our own security processes and a lot of what that was about automation and basically leveraging the APIs that we had. So basically at its core AWS has turned the data center into an API. And an API is something that I can automate and I can do a good job or I can do a bad job at that, that depends on the individual and so forth, but it's fundamentally a very powerful abstraction that allows one guy to do the work of potentially hundreds of people running around checking network connections. For me as a customer, that I can build a secure system on top of AWS. >> So they've turned the data center into an API, which is a very powerful metaphor, but they've turned it into a lot of APIs. How does that affect the complexity and the impact on security? >> Yeah, I know they are, look the reality is complex and I feel like their approach has been very carefully build from the bottom up, Lego by Lego, and then put other Legos on top of that. And I can very much appreciate that approach. I don't believe in one button security. I think it's just basically, everybody in the space knows that that's not a reality. >> Well we've asked Andy Jassy about this, John, and he said we want the fine grained access to primitives because when the market moves, we can move with it. If we don't have that, we put in all these abstraction layers that has implications on performance and, down the line, our agility. >> Power to the people, man, I think ultimately so many guys at Amazon, they're all very reasonable but you know they shouldn't make all the decisions. And everybody's use case is fundamentally a little bit different. And at the same time they're adding additional things because they realize that there's a lot of complexity even just looking at IM in these types of things is like, wow, okay, there's a lot of footguns built into this. The reality is that the entire industry is a giant footgun, on some level, so I like the fact that they ended up doing stuff like cloud trail and then pull all the cloud trail and repeat C logs that say flow logs into something like guard duty, for example, which they then try to do some correlation on there and they're trying to automate some of the detection as far as they can see it, as well. So I overall think they have a good approach to that. I think it's bottoms up. I think that works. I'm a builder type so for me that works. >> So Christian, final question, what're you looking at, CTO in the industry right now, what are some of the things you're looking at in the industry that's getting you excited and you guys are integrating into the vision? >> Well, it's really two things. I think one of the things we are seeing is as far as just general how people deploy software. We had containers and then nobody knew what to do with containers and it was orchestration and we now have Kubernetes basically having won all of the orchestration awards and I think that's going to be an industry standard that everybody has to deal with for the next couple of years. A lot of enterprise folks, is what I'm seeing, are now starting to kind of land on Kubernetes as part of sort of their cloud transformation, even if it's just pooling all the monoliths and then refactoring them afterwards. So I think that there's a lot of stuff going on there that Kubernetes adds its own layer of complexity. And there's opportunity for us there as a monitoring vendor. I'm extremely, I am probably more excited, almost irrationally excited about all the serverless stuff. I think I am a big proponent of not having to do undifferentiated heavy lifting. It feels to me that the sort of serverless track will get people to build better applications even faster in time to market everything that counts. And then on the security side I think that's an evergreen thing. You call it fear and then of course I've always said it's basically insurance. On some level, that's why the security market continues to be essentially evergreen and our customers are using us for their own security monitoring. We are building a lot of additional functionality there and I think that's going to continue to be a big and ongoing discussion because the underlying primitives, now you have Kubernetes, how do you secure that, how do you even build security in the serverless phase and whatever comes next after that. >> And I think also that point, I think you're seeing new brands are emerging as suppliers because they have that architectural, horizontal, the view. They're thinking holistically around the tech stacks and thinking about the role of data and just IoT is just a mind-blowing conversation around, where are you going to pour, where are you going to store that data? >> Yeah. >> Okay, so again, all this is kind of moving into a whole 'nother generational shift and you're either on the wrong side of the street or the right side of the street. This is like really binary at this point. >> And it's accelerating, right? Folks probably had one or two transformations in the last 30 years and now they're running through a transformation every three years, it's like getting whiplash, right? >> Buckle up. Christian, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Great insights. >> Thanks again for having me. >> Great insights here on theCUBE. Bringing you all the action Boston for AWS re:Inforce, Amazon Web Service's inaugural event around security's key developers, the new security pros and engineers out there. CUBE coverage continues after this short break. (upbeat music)

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering Google cloud next 19 taught to you by Google cloud and its ecosystem partners hello everyone welcome back to the cubes live coverage here in San Francisco the Moscone Center for the Google clouds conference is called Google next 2019 I'm Chevrolet my costume in omim de Ville ante is also here doing interviews our next guest is probably Bob who's the VP of product and design for server lists at Google probably great to see you thanks for coming on thank you for having me so you'd be a you're the VP of Product you got the keys to the kingdom on the roadmap you're seeing all the announcements obviously server lists cloud run was announced cloud code was mentioned on stage that's going to come out tomorrow so code build run this is DevOps this is actually happening yeah you know what super exciting is that we've we're finally solving the problem for customers and taking a customer centric view of this I'll start off with a little bit of the journey we took to get here right as we were talking to customers they kept coming back to three things that they wanted from us the first thing they wanted was agility they understand that you know cloud could give them great cost savings but they also wanted to be able to move faster and innovate right the second bit they wanted was having the flexibility to be hybrid and multi-cloud super important especially to our largest customers and then the third piece was they've really struggled with his journey to cloud and they wanted our partnership to make it a much more seamless and non-deceptive journey so as we talk to them about these three things right we came back to the drawing board and said hey what are the products that we can build to make their journey to be more cloud native and more agile much more seamless and future-proofed that much better right so we came back to the drawing board and came up with three products that you talked about this now the first was we looked at developers and their journeys and we said look they're building in traditional ideas like IntelliJ or vs code optimized for local development right and they're not writing a lick of Yama they're right for kubernetes and we said okay how can we take those environments and help those development teams build cloud native apps really really easily so really just turbocharging their cloud native development so bill cloud code which extends their local ids and lets them deploy to remote clusters so they can get full debugging full deployment building its integrated in the cloud build and they get the full kubernetes a development environment right in place so cloud build was released earlier you got enhancements of that so news the hard news here is enhancements to cloud build cloud code as new announce here yeah cloud run announced today that's right so this is the new this is the new hard news that's right so bottom line what does it mean for a developer so like I didn't enterprise so I'm a cio I'm a site C so I'm gonna be putting all my eggs in the cloud basket I've still gonna run the on Prem day is gonna be critical to my strategy it's this early day set up time or are you guys thinking it's more about the setup or more the life cycle of CI CD pipelining all the way to application deployment a great question John so I think where we are in this journey is that enterprises have started off with something that's the most basic cloud ready workloads that have been lifted and shifted we now see the next wave of workloads this is the 80% of workloads that are still on premise we see them start to get cloud ready and cloud native and the way that their enterprises are gonna do that is by building on top of the standards we've created like kubernetes and sto and key native and what cloud cold and build and run and of course Anthes that we talked off this morning as well these are great managed solutions from Google fully managed solutions from Google that let you get cloud native fast all right Polly wonder if you can help us you know spin through I see a disconnect in the market so you know Google showed great leadership in the container space and of course kubernetes we came out of Google and when I look at like cloud run okay it's helping to connect that and Kay native to kubernetes in service when I talk to a lot of the developers and service it's not the infrastructure moving up the stack it's they didn't want to even think about it it's right built in the cloud that's right I focus on the application I don't even think about that so I've got this big gap as to you know on premises forget it I don't never want to touch it or think about it and you know the one of the reasons you know there's the term server list would put it to the side but now if I need one is this environment I don't want to think about it and we know hybrid is a reality but there's this big disconnect as to what kind of developer are you or you a DevOps person that came from an infrastructure background or are you just building apps today yeah yeah yeah we're definitely seeing that from our customers right so one thing that we hear all the time is developers don't want to just not think about infrastructure they actually want the managed service and the platform they're building on to think about the infrastructure and optimize it for them so it's not this program will infrastructure it it's cloud run programming the infrastructure for you so you don't have to do it and I think increasingly you're gonna see products like cloud run and anthos and cloud code let developers focus just on code because that's what they want to do right I don't ever seen a developer say I really want to write a Yama file or I want to set up more configuration parameters right so I think we're gonna get to the place where you have developers being able to focus on cold and all of the rest of this being taken care of by platforms like code and run and anthos automation becomes key I mean Jennifer Lynn's demo I thought was very game-changing because she made the comment developers can focus on their code and agility not access permissions and all the configuration management that goes on under the you guys gonna provide that in an automatic programmable way we're gonna believe he is and she kind of teased out service missions so service missions kind of point in the future which is app developers are gonna still need to be aware of maybe not aware of what cloud run how to manage those sirs as they come stand up and get pulled down dynamically yeah how do you view that because this has become a gonna become complex is that gonna be automated is that where cloud run comes in you expand on this whole impact of service meshes because that's the next level that's right that's right so if you think about key native it's built on kubernetes and it forms the kind of triad with sto as well right and what a product like cloud run does is it lets you not have to think about that because at the end of the day we don't want developers to have to think about K native what cloud run is it takes care of the K native portability and compatibility for you and all you do is focus on the code itself right so ultimately we want developers to focus on their applications but I will say this right we do care about another important constituent which is all of those folks who've already got an apps built out there can those workloads be serviced as well and that's part of the problem we're trying to solve it that's an operational thing all right so let's take a step back here so server list actually fanfare has been great we're seeing a lot of traction people are enamored by it because functions as a service has been very compelling whether it's retail managing you know that spiked loads and becomes we see some some use cases where it's like you know really an amazing thing where is it limiting what is the next level growth for server list where do you see you mention workloads and we see people deploying functions and being happy with it are there limitations with serverless how does it go to the next level can you take a minute to describe the current state of server lists and what's coming around the corner now so great question the first thing I'll say is that there's a ton of developers who come up to us every day and tell us cloud functions is awesome right and they really like functions as a service they like the event-driven approach to it they like the service full approach but several is provides love the programming model that's great but there's an another large contingent of developers who tell us look this is super constraining for what I want to do I don't get to choose the libraries I want you're forcing me into a particular programming model can you give me more flexibility and what they see every day is the flexibility that containers provide especially on kubernetes right and what we've tried to do with cloud run is try to bridge those worlds where you get all of the flexibility that you want right that you get with containers but then combine it with what what you really want with the operational model which is service right so you pay only for what you use and of course you get the agility of service as well now one thing that we've noticed heard some great stories about this is a customer of ours Veolia which is one of the early adopters of cloud run and they've been partnering with us we thank them for it they are running a complex workload you talked about retail what Veolia does is they're large French multinational they do energy water and environmental services these are things that need to be highly reliable very complex and these are workloads that have existed for ages right and what viola is doing is using cloud run to run that complex workload but in a service in a service full way running in a service fashion all right take a minute explain what's a complex workload for your definition what is a simple workload because guys again we love functions Stu and I always talk about how great it is but what's that what's the D mark line when when does something become complex by your standards where you guys are addressing they could think describe the characteristics of a complex workload so the first thing is does the workload require flexibility right meaning are their custom workloads sometimes even legacies C++ or C applications do they need to pull that functionality in as well right do they need to pull random artifacts from across the enterprise to combine it and sometimes these are things that have been built over 20 years ago they're really critical mission critical pieces of software that need to be able to trigger and run right and can we actually take that flexibility but also combine in with a highly reliable environment right so were close like New Orleans there is no downtime right they need to be up 24 by 7 for 365 days of the year right so that flexibility plus that level of reliability is what we look at when we look at complexes so you're getting into complex systems where you got some code may be written in a mainframe COBOL in C++ we mentioned that was my jamm what kind of old dating myself but that was state-of-the-art back in the 90s so I'm running an agile job maybe of standing up cloud native but I need a use software and data from a system that's where is that where the container piece comes that ku burning it on either kubernetes but cloud run also supports docker so let's say you're running it in a docker container all you need is a docker container image and we can host that workload on program yeah Polly help us understand where where Google kind of what what's the same one what's different compared to the other service offerings out there just what I've heard feedback the last year or two is you know the great thing about server list is it's really easy to get started I've talked to marketing people that have no coding background that you know can get off and running it but doing complex mission-critical stuff yeah like we understand you know there is no magic wand NIT no silver bullet to make it easy but you know what do you see as Google's role in in this broader marketplace and you know where does open-source fit into that too yeah yeah so first I'll start off by saying there's a whole host of functions that are running on cloud functions which are relatively lightweight simple targeted event-driven functions those work great where we see us really making a difference for our customers is in two ways the first is get these more complex workloads that are currently running in a container whether it's a docker container our and or on gke for that matter and bring the agility of service to those workloads so it's the first thing it's something that we think is very unique because combining containers with serverless the second bit really is the open approach we've taken right built on top of K native key native as you know has a number of partners so one of the cool demos that you'll see during during Google Cloud next is you'll see a workload being shifted from cloud run on gke to the IBM cloud IBM is one of our partners 4k native without a single line of code and that flexibility is something that I think customers really decided talk about the business pen and some of the benefits at the business level in a developer level at the operations level can you hit those three points yeah of serverless silikal server less on those three sectors what's the benefits yep so we talked about the benefits for developers for developers it's simply about agility focus on your own code don't worry about Gamal don't worry about ki native you don't have to worry about any of that we'll take care of it for you the second benefit that I'll talk about is again this is just a benefit for the CIO which is hey we're gonna give you the flexibility and the openness so you can have portability of your workloads across whatever and why are you environment you want whether it's on tram or in a cloud whether it's Google or another cloud that's the second benefit the third bit is all of the operational benefits of service one of the things you'll see us do and continue to commit to do is we'll bill you to the hundredth of a millisecond right and so you'll continue to get that with all of the resiliency you expect of Google infrastructure security also pretty much baked in as well security is big then there's a fully managed offering from Google and so you'll get security compliance policies all Big Data of course we watched the keynote and we watch every word from Koreans giving Diane green a little tip of the hat which was nice signal a lot of class a great respect for that but jennifer lynn said something i want to get your reaction to she was kind of talking about her thing doing a great demo he changing and when she said this would allow you to negotiate better contracts okay that might have been a slip of the tongue your reaction that that implied to me I took that and say whoa that means leverage shifts to the customer your thoughts and that kind of maybe a slip of the tongue but if you're saying that I couldn't have options and choice yes Janice pardon this is what customers want and at Google what we're focused on is giving customers what they want and one of the things that customers are worried about today is lock-in and especially in the server this area because the current offerings are so proprietary customers are worried about it because they want server lists for all the benefits offers that we talked about here but they do want that flexibility and that's what we negotiate actually we know Oracle is very strict on their cloud this is going to give customers the choice is the saying that's whoa you want a license renewal yeah that's what you're getting out here so Polly you talked about choice and flexibility you know kubernetes gives some of that concern with serverless is if I look at a sure if I look at AWS if I look at Kay native you know those three aren't the same I talked there there's a small start-up called trigger mesh that's getting Kay native to work with AWS lambda but do you see a future is there you know I've talked to the CMC F I've looked at some of the various pieces that you know serverless isn't just something that I'm baked into a cloud yeah look I think we've seen extraordinary momentum around Kay native it's very similar to what we had seen when in the early days of kubernetes this huge amount of ecosystem interest and so we'll see continued innovation where you'll see work load portability come to service and I'm confident in that because of all of the momentum we were seeing around Canada so we're committed at Google to K native and its success so you'll see us continue to innovate yeah talk about open source open source becomes a very strategic part you can Shin kubernetes which you guys were the that have the DNA the founding fathers of kubernetes now teams on the team went to vmware someone have Microsoft some stay within Google containers certainly we see what you guys have done when four against four J but open source still this fear of open source I mean I don't mean it in a way that it's going to be inhibited and primitive but support making sure s LA's work latency microservice is going to be involved you mentioned k- yeah so as open source accelerates the time then value for the code that also triggers this op side of the serviceability and reliability and support what's your thoughts on that how are you guys how do you see the industry supporting that that critical piece of the puzzle yeah could not be more critical right for customers to be able to adopt this because the number one thing that we need to do for customers is give them a managed offering that lets them not have to worry about security lets them not have to worry about compliance lets them not have to worry about policies or identity etc right bake all of that into the managed service and then the second operational bit is which is as important this goes to what Thomas talked about at the very end of his keynote which is the open source announcement is we want to make it simple for customers to adopt it will be supported by Google and the partner you'll get unified billing unified support and one person to call when you have a problem yeah Polly we're at an interesting point in open source today because they're they want to get your opinion as a product person and your relationship with open source because you know there's a certain cloud out there it's they're gonna give you open source as a managed service but you have some of the companies that are making like open source databases changing their policies to try to fight against just being you know taken over by somehow the big players how does Google react to that yeah for us the approach is all about partnership because we think together we can better serve customers needs and best serve them and so our approach has always been about partnership so whether it's kubernetes or key native or the larger manage store manager open source offerings that we talked about earlier in the keynote we want to bring all of these together so we can serve customers so you're gonna see us continue to like support the open source equals because we believe that innovation is absolutely critical to helping our customers really start innovated in be agile final question I know we're tight on time I want to get this in because you know I see a lot of positive I've come out of the show there's been some critical analysis around you've got to build up salespeople and all the field stuff which is you guys are well aware of but one of the things that was kind of teased out in the open source announcement was the role of Google having their own ecosystem Asli the C & C has been a big tailwind for Google you guys been a big part of that ecosystem as a cloud commercial provider and with these kinds of server list you're going to have an ecosystem starting to develop kind of a thousand flowers blooming pun intended so how do you see that in your area because this is going to be super important partnering ecosystem support yeah which is you know developer traction distribution of software integration opportunities that's why in monetization all kind of come together your thoughts huge hugely critical for us and that's something that we've been focused on we have a rich ecosystem of partners for service we're gonna continue to build it out across all of the different pieces you need one of the things we didn't talk much about was our entire operational stack monitoring logging all of those pieces right we need to bring all of those together along with all of our partners we have a big partnership with the likes of data dog right number of others so we're gonna continue to partner with the entire ecosystem so we can go solve the problems that they have are you guys gonna show them the white space where they can play is gonna be part of the strategy yeah so it's gonna be across the board you'll see us continue to support the key native ecosystem tremendously and like lean into that and we're already excited to see all the different offerings that are exist on key native same thing with kubernetes we're gonna continue to like press hard we've got on the operational side we've got an offering called open census it's got lots of traction again just open monitoring of applications so we're gonna continue to do that across the board yeah probably great to have you on vice president of product and design got the keys to the kingdom right here he's the who's running the show for the server list really the key part of how kubernetes really intersects old and new to create the next generation applications thanks for joining us and sharing the insight I'm Jeff forest do many men here live coverage Google next more coverage after this short break