(soft electronic music) >> Good afternoon guys and gals. Welcome back to theCube's Live coverage of AWS re:Invent 2022. We've been in Sin City since Monday night, giving you a load of content. I'm sure you've been watching the whole time, so you already know. Lisa Martin here with John Furrier. John, we love having these conversations at AWS re:Invent. So many different topics of conversation. We also love talking to AWS's partner ecosystem. There's so much emphasis on it, so much growth and innovation. >> Yeah, and the thing is we got two great leaders from a very popular company that's doing very well. Security, security's a big part of the story. Data and security. Taking up all the keynote time, you're hearing a lot of it. This company's a company we've been following from the beginning. Doing really good stuff in open source, cloud native, security, shifting-left. Snyk's just a great company. With the CTO and the head of the product organization, these guys have the keys to the kingdom in security. We're going to have a great conversation. >> Yeah, we are. Both from Snyk, Manoj Nair joins us, rejoins us, for your, I believe, 11th visit. Chief Product Officer of Snyk. Adi Sharabani, Chief Technology Officer. Welcome guys. Great to have you. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Great to be back. >> So what's going on at Snyk? I know we get to talk to you often, but Manoj, give us the lowdown on what are some of the things that are new since we last connected with Snyk. >> A lot of innovation going on. We just had a major launch last month and you know when we talked to our customers three big themes are happening in parallel. One is the shift to going from traditional development to, really, DevOps, but we need to make that DevSecOps and Snyk was ahead of, that was the genesis of Snyk, but we're still, you know, maybe 15, 20% of organizations have realized that. So that one big theme. Supply chain security, top of mind for everyone. And then really, cloud and, you know, how do you really take advantage of cloud. Cloud is code. So our innovation map to those three big themes, we have done a lot in terms of that shift-left. And Adi will talk about, kind of, some of our original, like, you know, thinking behind that. But we flipped the security paradigm on its head. Was to make sure developers loved what they were, you know, experiencing with Snyk. And oh, by the way, they're fixing security issues. The second one, supply chain. So you know, SBOMs and everyone hears about this and executive orders, what do you do? Who does what with that? So we launched a few things in terms of simplifying that. You can go to our website and, you know, just upload your SBOM. It'll tell you using the best security intelligence data. In fact, the same data is used by AWS inside their products, inside Inspector. So we use that data from Snyk's intelligence to light up and tell you what vulnerabilities do your third party code have. Even things that you might not be scanning. And then the last one is really code to cloud. Cloud is code. So we have brought the ability to monitor your cloud environments all the way into your platform and the security engineering teams, rather than later on and after the fact. Those are some of the big ones that we're working on. >> Lisa: Lots going on. >> Yeah. >> Lisa: Wow. >> Lots going on there. I mean, SBOMs, Software Bill of Materials. I mean, who would've thought in the developer community, going back a decade, that we'd be talking about bill of materials, open source becomes so popular. You guys are cloud native. Developer productivity's a hot trend. Not much going on here, talking about developer productivity. Maybe Werner, keynote tomorrow will talk about it. Software supply chain, huge security risk. You guys are in the front lines. I want to understand, if you can share, why is Snyk successful? Everyone is hearing about you guys. Your business is doing great. What's the secret sauce of your success? Why are you guys so successful? >> I think that, you know, I've been doing application security for more than two decades now and in the past we always saw the potential associated with transferring, shifting-left in a sense, before the term, right? Taking those security solutions out of the hands of the security people and putting it in the hands of developers. It's speeds up the process. It's very, very clear to anyone. The problem was that we always looked at it the wrong way. We did shift-left, and shift-left is not enough because in my terminology shift-left, meaning let's take those security solution put it earlier in the cycle, but that's not enough because the developer is not speaking those terms. The developer is not a security persona. The security persona is thinking in terms of risk. What are the risks that a specific issue creates? The developer is thinking in terms of the application. What would be the impact on application of a change I would might make into it. And so the root cause of Snyk success, in my opinion, is the fact that from the get-go we scratch that, we build a solution for the developer that is based on how the workflows of the developer, whether it's the ID, whether it's the change management, the pull request. Whether it's integration with the Gits and so on. And whether it's with integration with the cloud and the interaction with the cloud providers. And doing that properly, addressing the developers how they want to context, to get, with the context they want to get as part of the issues, with the workflows they want to get. That's kind of the secret sauce, in a sense. And very easy maybe to say, but very, very hard to implement properly. >> This is huge. I want to unpack that. I want to just, great call out, great description. This is huge. This is a, we're seeing the past three years in particular, maybe three with the pandemic. Okay, maybe go a couple years earlier, then. The developers' behavior is driving the change. And you know, if you look at the past three DockerCons we've covered, we've been powering that site, been following that community very closely since the beginning, as well. It just seems in the past three to four years that the developers choices at scale, not what they're buying or who's pushing tools to them, has been one big trend. >> Yeah. >> They're setting the pace. >> Developer is the king. >> If it's self-service, we've seen self-service. Whether it's freemium to paid, that works. This is the new equation. Developer, developer choice is critical. So self-service they want. And two, the language barrier or jargon between or mindsets between security and developers. Okay, so DevOps brings IT into the workflow. Check. DevSecOps brings in there. You guys crack the code on that, is that what you're saying? >> Yes, and it's both the product, like how do you use the solution, as well as the go to market. How do you consume the solution? And you alluded to that with the PLG motion, that I think Synk has done the superb job at and that really helped our businesses. >> Okay, so Manoj, product, you got the keys to the kingdom, you got the product roadmap. I could imagine, and what I'd love to get your reaction too Adi, if you don't mind. If you do that, what you've done, the consequence of that is now security teams and the data teams can build guardrails. We're reporting a lot of that in the queue. We're hearing that we can provide guardrails. So the velocity of the developer seems to be increasing. Do you see that? Is that a consequence? >> That's something that we actually measure in the product. Right, so Snyk's focus is not finding issues, it's fixing issues. So one of the things we have been able to heuristically look at our thousands of customers and say, they're fixing issues 27 days faster than they were prior to Snyk. So, you know, I'm a Formula one fan. Guardrails, you say. I say there's a speed circuit. Developers love speed. We give them the speed. We give the security teams the ability to sit on those towers and, you know, put the right policies and guardrails in place to make sure that it's not speed without safety. >> And then I'm sure you guys are in the luxury box now, partying while the developers are (Lisa laughing) no more friction, no more fighting, right? >> The culture is changing. I had a discussion with a Fortune 50 CISO a month ago, and they told me, "Adi, it's the first time in my life where the development teams are coming to me, asking me, hey I want you to buy us this security solution." And for, that was mind blowing for him, right? Because it really changes the discussion with the security teams and the development teams >> Before Lisa jumps in, well how long, okay, let me ask you that question on that point. When did that tipping point change, culturally? Was it just the past few years? Has there, has DevOps kind of brought that in, can you? >> Yeah, I think it's a journey that happened together with Snyk's, kind of, growth. So if three years ago it was the very early adopters that were starting to consume that. So companies that are very, you know, modern in the way they developed and so on. And we saw it in our business. In the early days, most of our business came from the high tech industry. And now it's like everywhere. You have manufacturing, you have banks, you have like every segment whatsoever. >> Talk about that cultural shift. That's really challenging for organizations to achieve. Are you seeing, so that, that CISO was quite surprised that the developer came and said, this is what I want. Are you seeing more of that cultural changes? Is that becoming pervasive? >> Yeah, so I think that the root cause of that is that, you mentioned the growth, like the increased speed of velocity in applications. We have 30 million developers in the world today. 30 millions. By the end of the decade it's going to be 45 millions and all of them are using open source, third party code. Look at what's going on here in the event, right? This accelerates the speed for which they develop. So with that, what happened in the digital transformation world, the organizations are facing that huge growth, exponential growth in the amount of technology and products that are being built by their teams. But the way they manage that before, from a security perspective, just doesn't scale. And it breaks and it breaks and it breaks. This is why you need a different approach. A solution that is based on the developers, who are the ones that created the problems and the ones that will be responsible of fixing the issues. This is why we are kind of centering ourselves around them. >> And the world has changed, right? What is cloud? It's code, it's not infrastructure. Old infrastructure, hosted infrastructure. So if cloud is code and cloud native applications are all code and they're being deployed with Terraform packages and cloud formations, that's code. Why take an old school approach of scanning it outside-in. I talked to CISO today who said, I feel bad that, you know, our policy makes it such that a terraform change takes six months. What did I do? I made cloud look like infrastructure. >> Yeah, it's too slow. >> So that, you know, so both sides, you know, CISOs want something that the business, you know, accepts and adopts and it's, culture changes happen because the power is with the developers because all of this is code, and we enabled that whole seamless journey, all the way from code to cloud. So it's kind, you know, I think that this is a part of it. It's by direction, it's a bridge and both sides are meeting in the middle here. >> It's a bridge. I'm curious, how are you facilitating that bridge? You, we talk about the developers being the kings and queens and really so influential in business decisions these days. And you're talking about the developers now embracing Snyk. But you're also talking to CISOs. Is your customer conversation level changing as a result of security folks understanding why it needs to shift-left. >> We had a breakfast meeting with customers, prospects and everyone, I think this morning. It was interesting, we were remarking. There are CTOs, VPs of engineering, CISOs, VPs of AppSec. And it was such a rich conversation on both sides, right? So just the joy of facilitating that conversation and dialogue. CISOs, and so the levels are changing. It started for us in CTOs and VPs of engineering and now it's both because, you know, one of the things Adi talks about is, like, that security has to become development aware. And that's starting to be like the reality. Me getting another solution, with maybe a better acronym than the old acronym, but it's still outside-in, it's scan based. I light up up the Christmas tree, who is going to fix it? And with the speed of cloud, now I got throw in more lights. Those lights are no longer valid. >> The automation. >> The automation without prioritization and actual empowerment is useless. >> All right, I know we got a couple minutes left, but I want to get into that point about automation because inside-out, you've made me think about this. I want to get your thought Adi, if you don't mind. The integration challenges now are much more part of the ecosystem, more joint engineering. You mentioned these meetings are not just salesperson and customer buyer, it's teams are talking to each other. There's a lot of that going on. How do you guys look at that? Because now the worst things that I hear and when I talk to customers is, I hate the word PenTest and AppSec review. It slows things down. People want to go faster. So how do you guys look at that? What's Snyk doing around making the AppSec review process, integration across companies, work better? >> So I'll give you an example from the cloud and then I will relate to the AppSec. And this relates to what you mentioned before. We had a discussion yesterday with a CISO that said, we are scanning the cloud, we are opening the lights, we see this issue. Now what do I do? Who needs to fix this? So they have this long process of finding the actual team that is required to fix it. Now they get to the team and they say, why didn't you tell me about it when I developed it? The same goes for AppSec, right? The audit is a very late stage of the game. You want to make sure that the testing, that the policies, everything is under the same structure, the same policies. So when you do the same thing, it's part of the first time of code that you create, it's part of the change management, it's part of the build, it's part of the deployment and it's part of the audit. And you have everything together being done under the same platform. And this is, kind of, one of the strengths that we bring to the table. The discussion changes because now you have an aligned strategy, rather than kind of blocks that we have, kind of, mashed up together. >> So the new workflow, it's a new workflow, basically, in the mindset of the customer. They got to get their arms around that thing. If we don't design it in, the wheels could come off the bus at the 11th hour. >> Adi: Yeah. >> And everything slows down. >> I had a discussion with Amazon today, actually, that they had an internal discussion and they said, like, some of the teams were like, why have you blocked my app from being released? And they said, have you ever scanned your app? Have you ever looked at your, like, and, and they're like, if you haven't, then you're not really onboard with the platform and it just breaks. This is what happens. >> Great conversation. I know we don't, I wish we had more time. We'll do a follow up on theCube for sure. Should we get into the new twist? >> I've got one final question for you guys. We're making some Instagram reels, so think about your elevator pitch in 30 seconds. And I want to ask you about Snyk's evolution. Manoj, I want to start with you. What is that elevator pitch about Snyk's evolution to the end user customer? >> Empower developers, help them go faster, more productive and do it in a way that security is really built in, not bolted on. And that's really, you know, from a, the evolution and the power that we are giving is make the organization more productive because security is just happening as a part of making the developer more productive. >> Awesome. And Adi, question for you, how, your elevator pitch on how Snyk is really an enabler for CISOs these days? >> Yeah, so I always ask the CISO first of all, are you excited about the way your environment looks like today? Do you need to have a cultural change? Because if you need to have a cultural change, if you want to get those two teams working closely together, we are here to enable that. And it goes from the product, it goes from our education pieces that we can talk about in another section, and it works around the language that we build to allow and enable that discussion. >> Awesome. Guys, that was a double mic drop for both of you. >> Manoj: Thank you. >> Adi: Thank you, Lisa. >> Thank you so much for joining John and me, talking about what's happening with Snyk, what you're enabling customers to do and how, really, you're enabling cultural change. That's hard to do. That's awesome stuff guys. And congratulations on your 11th and your first Cube. >> Second, second, >> Second. >> Adi: I will be here more, but (laughs) >> You got it, you got it. You have to come back because we have too much to talk about. >> Adi: Exactly. (laughs) >> Thanks guys, we appreciate it. >> If we can without Manoj, so I can catch up. (Manoj laughs) >> Okay. We'll work on that. >> Bring you in the studio. (everyone laughing) >> Exactly. >> Eight straight interviews. (John and Lisa laughing) >> We hope you've enjoyed this conversation. We want to thank our guests. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in emerging and enterprise tech coverage. (soft electronic music)

>>Okay. We're back in Boston covering AWS reinvent 2022. This is our second live reinvent. We've done the other ones, uh, in between as digital. Uh, my name is Dave Lanta and you're watching the cube. Peter McKay is here. He's the CEO of sneaking ad Shani is the chief technical officer guys. Great to see you again. Awesome. Being here in Boston >>In July. It is Peter. You can't be weather's good weather. Yeah, red SOS. Aren't good. But everything else >>Is SOS are ruin in our sub, you know, >>Hey, they're still in the playoff, the hunt, you >>Know, all you gotta do is make it in. Yes. >>Right. And there's a new season. Simple >>Kinda like hockey, but you know, I'm worried they're gonna be selling at the trading >>Deadline. Yeah. I think they should be. I think it's you think so it's not looking good. Oh, >>You usually have a good angle on this stuff, but uh, well, Hey, we'll see. We'll go. I got a lot of tickets. We'll go and see the Yankees at least we'll see a winning team. Anyway, we last talked, uh, after your fundraising. Yeah. You know, big, big round at your event last night, a lot of buzz, one of the largest, I think the largest event I saw around here, a lot of good customers there. >>It's great. Great time. >>So what's new. Give us the update. You guys have made some, an acquisition since then. Integration. We're gonna talk >>About that. Yeah. It's been, uh, a lot has happened. So, uh, the business itself has done extremely well. We've been growing at 170% year, over year, a hundred percent growth in our number of customers added. We've done six acquisitions. So now we have, uh, five products that we've added to the mix. We've tripled the size of the company. Now we're 1300 people, uh, in the organization. So quite a bit in a very short period of time. >>Well, and of course my, in my intro, I, I said, reinvent, I'm getting ahead of myself. Right. >>Of course we'll >>Reinforced. We'll be at reinve >>In November. Are that's the next one at >>Reinforced. We've done a lot of reinvents by the way, you know? >>So there's a lot, lot of reinvention >>Here. So of course, well, you're reinventing security, right? Yes. So, you know, I try to, I think about when I go to these events, like, what's the takeaway, what's the epiphany. And we're really seeing the, the developer security momentum, and it's a challenge. They gotta worry about containers. They gotta worry about run time. They gotta worry about platform. Yeah. You guys are attacking that problem. Maybe describe that a >>Little bit for us. Yeah. I mean, for years it was always, um, you know, after the fact production fixing security in run time and billions and billions of dollars spent in fixing after the fact. Right. And so the realization early on with the was, you know, you gotta fix these issues earlier and earlier, we started with open source was the first product at wait. Then six, six years ago, then we added container security and we added infrastructure's code. We added code security. We added, um, most recently cloud security with the F acquisition. So one platform, one view that a developer can look at to fix all the issues through the, be from the beginning, all the way through the software development life cycle. So we call it developer security. So allowing developers to develop fast, but stay secure at the same time. >>So I like the fact that you're using some of your capital to do acquisitions. Yeah. Now a lot of M and a is, okay, we're gonna buy this company. We're gonna leave them alone. You guys chose to integrate them. Maybe describe what that process was like. Yeah. Why you chose that. Yeah. How hard it was, how long it took. Take us through that. >>Yeah. Yeah. I'll give, uh, two examples, maybe one on sneak, which was an acquisition of, of the company that was focused on, uh, code analysis, actually not for security. And we have identified the merit of what we need in terms of the first security solution, not an ability to take a security product and put it in the end of developer, but rather build something that will build into the dev motion, which means very fast, very accurate things that it can rely on source and not just on the build code and so on. And we have built that into the platform and by that our customers can gain all of their code related issues together with all of their ISE related issues together with all of the container issues in one platform that they can prioritize accordingly. >>Yeah. Okay. So, so talk more about the, the, the call, the few, the sneak cloud, right? Yeah. So the few name goes away. I presume, right. Or yes, it does. Okay. So you retire that and bring it in the brand is sneak. Yeah. Right. So talk about the cloud, what it does, what problems >>It's solving. Yeah. Awesome. And, and this goes exactly the same. As we mentioned on, on the code, we have looked at the, the, the cloud security solutions for a while now. And what we loved about the few team is that they were building their product with their first approach. Okay. So the notion is as followed as you are, you know, you're a CSO, you have your pro you have your program, you're looking, you have different types of controls and capabilities. And your team is constantly looking for threats. When we are monitoring your cloud environment, we can detect problems like, you know, your FL bucket is not exposing the right permissions and is exposed to the world or things like that. But from a security perspective, it might be okay to stop there. But if you're looking at an operation perspective, you need to know who needs to fix, how do they need to fix it? >>Where do they need to fix it? What will the be the impact if they would fix it? So what do we actually doing is we are connecting all the dots of the platform. So on one end, you know, the actual resources that are running and what's the implication in the actual deployed environment. On the other end, we get correlation back to the actual code that generates that. And then I can give that context both to the security person, the context of how it affects the application. But more importantly, the context for the developer is required to fix the problem. What's the context of the cloud. Yeah. And a lot of things are being exposed this way. And we can talk about that. Uh, >>So this is really interesting because, and look, I love AWS to do an amazing job. One of the other things I really like about 'em is it seems like they're not trying to go hard and monetize their security products. Mm-hmm, they're leaving that to the ecosystem, which I like. Yeah. Microsoft taken a little different approach, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ton a lot. But this, this, this example you're giving ad about the S3 bucket. So we heard in the keynotes yesterday about, you know, reasoning, AI reasoning, they said, we can say, is this S3 bucket exposed to the public? We can do that with math. Right. Yeah. But you're what I'm inferring is you don't stop there. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of other stuff that has to, >>And sometimes have to, not as simple, just as a configuration change, sometimes the correlation between what your application is doing affects what is the resulted experience of, you know, the remote user or in this case, the attacker, right. I mean, >>The application has access, who has access to the application, is this, this the chain. >>So propagates, you have to, you have to have a, a solution that looks both at have very good understanding of the application context. A very good understanding of what we refer to as the application graph, like understanding how it works, being able to analyze that and apply the same policies, both at development time, as well as run time. >>So there's, there's human to app. There's also a machine to machine. Can you guys help with that problem as well? Or is that sort of a futures thing or >>Could you, I'm not sure. I understand what >>Referring, so machines talking to machines, right. I mean, there's data flowing. Yep. You know, between those machines, right. It's not just the humans interacting with the application. Is that a trend that you see and is that something that you guys can solve? >>So at, at the end of the day, there is a lot of automation that happens both for, by humans for good reasons, as well as by humans for bads. Right. <laugh> and, and the notion is that we are really trying to focus on what matters to the developer as they're trying to improve their business around that. So both improves making sure they know, you know, quality problems or things of this kind. But as part of that, more importantly, when we're looking at security as a quality problem, making sure that we have a flow in the development life cycle that streamline what the developer is expecting to do as they're building the solution. And if every single point, whether it's the ID, whether it's the change management, whether it's the actual build, whether it's the deployed instance on the cloud, making sure that we identify with that and connect that back to the code. >>Okay. So if there's machine automation coming in, that shouldn't be there, you can sort of identify that and then notify remediate or whatever action should be >>Taken. Yeah. Identify, identify remediate. Yep. >>Yeah. We, we really focus on making sure that we help developers build better products. So our core focus is identify areas where the product is not built way in a good way, and then suggest the corrective action that is required to make that happen. >>And I think part of this is the, you know, just, uh, the speed of the software development today. I mean, you look at developers are constantly and not just look at sneak you're, you're trying to get so much more productivity outta the developers that you have. Every company is trying to get more productivity out of developers, incredible innovation, incredible pace, get those is a competitive advantage. And so what we're trying to do is we make it easier for developers to go fast innovate, but also do it securely and embed it without slowing them down, develop fast and secure. >>So again, I love, I love AWS love what they're doing. We heard, uh, yesterday from, from CJ, you know, a lot of talk about, you know, threat detection and, you know, some talk about DevOps, et cetera. But yeah, I, I, I didn't hear a lot about how to reduce the complexity for the CSO. And the reason I bring this up is it feels like the cloud is now the first level of defense and the CISO is, is becoming the next level, which is on the developer. So the developer is becoming responsible for security at a whole shift left, maybe shield. Right. But, but shift left is becoming critical. Seems like your role and maybe others in the ecosystem is to address my concern about simplifying the life of the CISO. Is that a reasonable way to think about it? I >>Think it's changing the role of the CISO. How so? You know, really it's, I, I think it's before it, in this, in the security organization and D you should chime in here is, you know, it used to be, I did, I owned all application security, I owned the whole thing and they couldn't keep up. Like, I think it's just every security organization is totally overwhelmed. And so they have to share the responsibility. They have to get that fix the issues earlier and earlier, because it's waiting too long. It's after the fact. And then you gotta throw this over the fence and developers have to fix it. So they've gotta find a new way because they're the bottleneck they're slowing down the company from, in innovating and bringing these applications to market. So we are the kind of this bridge between the security teams that wanna make sure the, that we're staying secure and the development organizations and engineering and CEOs go fast. We need you guys to go faster and faster. So we, we tend to be the bridge between the two of them. >>One of the things I really love happening these days is that we change the culture of the organization from a culture where the CSO is trying to, you know, push and enforce and dictate the policy, which, which they should, but they really wanna see the development team speak up like that. The whole motion of DevOps is that we are empowering them to make the decisions that are right for the business, right? And then there is a gap because on one hand, this is always like, you need to do this, you need to do this. You need to do that. And the dev teams don't understand how that impacts their business. Good enough. And they don't have the tools and, you know, the ability to add a source problem. So with the solution liken, we really empower the developers to bake security as part of their cycle, which is what was done in many other fields, quality, other things, everything, it, everything moves into development already, right? So we're doing that. And the entire discussion now changes into an enablement discussion. >>So interesting. Cause you saw, this is the role of the CSOs changing. How so? I see that in a way like frees, sneak the CSO with the cloud is becoming a compliance officer. Like you do this, you do this, you do this, you do this, you third >>One would take a responsibility >>Trying. Yeah. Right, right. And so you're flipping that equation saying, Hey, we're gonna actually make this an accelerant to your business. >>So, so set the policy, determine compliance, but make sure that the teams, the developers are building applications in compliance with your policy. Right. So make sure and, and don't allow them to do something. If they're doing, if they're developing an application with a number of vulnerabilities, you can stop that from happening so you can oversee it, but you don't have to be the one who owns it all the way through from beginning to, >>Or, or get it before it's deployed. So you don't have to go back after the fact and, and remediate it with, you know, but, >>But think about deploy, they're deploying apps today. I mean, they're updating by the hour, right? Where, you know, six years ago, five years ago, two years ago was every six to nine months. Right? So the pace of this innovation from developers is so fast that the old way of doing security can't keep up. Like they're built for six month release cycles. This is six hour release cycles. And so we had to, it has to change security. Can't stay the way it is. So what we've been doing for se seven years for application security is exactly what we're doing for cloud security is moving all that earlier. All these products that we've been building over the years is really taking these afterthought security components and bringing 'em all earlier, you know, bringing everything like cloud security is done after the fact. Now we can take those issues and bring 'em right to the developers who created that and can fix the issues. So it's code to cloud back to code in a very automated fashion. So doesn't slow developers down. >>Okay. So what's the experience. We all know there's, everybody has more than one cloud. What's the experience across clouds. Can you create a consistent, continuous experience, cloud agnostic, >>Agnostic, cloud agnostic, uh, development environment, agnostic, you know, language agnostic. So that's kind of the beauty oft where you have maybe other certain tools for certain clouds, uh, or certain languages or certain development environments, but you have to learn different tools, you know, and, and they all roll up to security in a different way. And so what we have done is consolidated all that spend for open source security, container security infrastructure, now, cloud security, all that spend and all that fragmentation all under one platform. So it's one company that brings all those pieces >>Together. So it's a single continuous experience. Yeah. The developer experience you're saying is identical. Yes. >>Actually one product >>It's entitlement that we're getting. Yes. So you're hiding the underlying complexities of the respective clouds and those primitives developer doesn't have to worry about them. No, I call that a super cloud super >>Cloud. >>Okay. But no, but essentially that's what you're, you're building, building on the, on this ed Walsh would say on the shoulders of giants. Yeah, exactly. You know, you don't have to worry about the hyperscale infrastructure. Yep. Right. That you're building a layer of value on top of that. Yes. Is, is that essentially a PAs layer or is it, is it, can I think of it that way or is it not? Hmm. Is it platform? I >>Mean, yeah. I, I, I would say that at the end of the day, the, the way developers want to use a security tool is the same. Right. So we expose our functionality to them in those ways, if you're using, you know, uh, uh, one GI repository or another, if you're using one cloud or we, we are agnostic to data, don't, it's not, it doesn't really affect us in that manner. Um, I want to add another thing about the, the experience and associated with the consolidation that Peter referred to, uh, earlier, when you have a motion that automatically assess, you know, uh, problems that the developer is putting as part of the change management, as example, you do creating pool request. Now adding more capabilities into that motion is easy. So from enablement of the team, you can add another functionality, add cloud at ISC, add code and so on like that, because you already, you already made the decisions on how you are looking at that. And now you're integrated at, into your developer workflows, >>Right? So it's, it's already, it's already integrated for open source, adding container and ISD is real easy. It's all, you've already done all the integrations. And so for us going to five products and eventually 6, 7, 8, all, all based on the integrations that you already have in the same workflows that developers have become a use accustomed >>To. And that's what we, a lot of work from the company perspective. Right. >>I can ask you about another sort of trend we're seeing where you see Goldman Sachs last reinvent announced a cloud product, essentially bringing their data, their tools, their software. They're gonna run it on AWS at the snowflake summit, uh, capital one announced the service running on snowflake, Oracle by Cerner, right? Yeah. You know, they're gonna be, do something on OCI. Of course, make 'em do that. But it's, it's a spin on Andreessens every company's a software company. It's like every company's now becoming digital, a software company building their own SAS, essentially building their own clouds, or maybe, maybe something they'll be super clouds. Are you seeing industry come to sneak and say, Hey, help us build products that we can monetize >>There companies. So, first off, I think kind of the first iteration is, you know, all these industries of becoming software driven, like you said, and more software is more software risk. And so that kind of led us down this journey of now financial services, you know, tech, you know, media and entertainment, financial services, healthcare. Now it's this long tail of, of low tech. Yeah. Within those companies, they are offering services to the other parts of the organization. We have >>So far, mostly >>Internal, mostly internal, other than the global SI. And some of the companies who do that for a living, you know, they build the apps for companies and they are offering a sneak service. So before I give you these, I update these applications. I'm gonna make sure I'm running. I'm, I'm, I'm signifying those applications to make sure that they're secure before you get them. And so that now a company like a capital one coming to us saying, I wanna offer this to others. I think that's a, that's a leap because you know, companies are taking on security of someone else's and I think that's a, that's not there yet. It may be, >>Do you think it'll happen? >>We do have the, uh, uh, threat Intel that we, we have a very, a very strong security group that constantly monitors and analyzing the threat. And we create this vulnerability database. So in open sources, an example, we're the fact of standard, uh, in the field. So many of our partners are utilizing the threat Intel feed of snake as part of their offering. Okay. If you go to dock as an example, you can scan with, with snake intelligence immediately out of the gate over there, right? Yeah. >>And tenable, rapid seven trend micro. They all use the vulnerability database as well. Okay. So a lot of financial institutions use it because they had, they'd have seven, 10 people doing re security research on their own. And now they can say, well, I don't have to have those seven. I've got the industry standard for vulnerability database from Steve. >>And they don't have to throw out their existing tool sets where they have skills. >>Yes, exactly. >>Peter bring us homes, give us the bumper sticker, summarize, you know, reinforce and kind what we can expect going forward. >>Yeah, no, I mean, we're gonna continue the pace. We don't see anything slowing, slowing us down in terms of, um, just the number of customers that are, that are shifting left. Everybody's talking about, Hey, I need to embed this earlier and earlier. And I think what they're finding is this, this need to rein reinnovate like get innovation back into their business. And a lot of it had to slow down because, well, you know, you, we can't let developers develop an app without it going through security. And that takes time. It slows you down and allows you not to like slow the pace of innovation. And so for us, it's it help developers go fast, incredibly, you know, quickly, aggressively, creatively, but do it in a secure way. And I think that balance, you know, making sure that they're doing what they're doing, they're increasing developer productivity, increasing the amount of innovation that developers are trying to do, but you gotta do it securely. And that's where we compliment really what every CEO is pushing companies. I need more productivity. I need more aggressive creativity, innovation, but you better be secure at the same time. And that's what we bring together for our customers. >>And you better do that without slowing us down. That's >>Don't trade off, slow >>Us down. Always had to make. Yes, guys. Thanks so much for coming to the cube. Thanks, David. Always great to see you guys see ID. Appreciate it. All right. Keep it right there. This is the Cube's coverage of reinforced 2022 from Boston. We'll be right back right after the short break.

>>Welcome back to the cubes, continuous coverage of AWS reinvent 2021. I'm Lisa Martin. We are winning one of the industry's most important in hybrid tech events this year with AWS and its enormous ecosystem of partners to life sets we have going on right now. There's a dueling set right across from me, two remote studios over 100 guests on the program. We'll be digging into really the next decade of cloud innovation. I'm pleased to welcome two guests that sit next to me here. We've got Aaron Arnold Santa's partner at BCG gamma and a diesel associate director of data science at BCG gamma guys. Welcome to the program. Thanks for having us. I D let's go ahead and start with you. Give us the low down what's going on at BCG gamma. >>We are focused on building responsible, sustainable, and efficient AI at scale to solve pressing business problems. >>Good. We're going to dig into that more. There was a lot of talk about AI this morning during the keynote yesterday as well. And you know, one of the things Aaron that we talked about the last day and a half is that every company, these days has to be a data company, but the volume of data is so great that we've got to have AI to be able to help all the humans process it, find all of the nuggets that are buried within these volumes of data for companies to be competitive. You talk about a sustainable efficient let's go ahead and talk about what do you mean by efficient AI? It sounds great, but help unpack what that actually means. And, and how does an organization in any industry actually achieving? >>Yeah. So when we talk about efficient AI, we're really talking about resilience, scale and adoption. So we all know that the environment in which AI tools and systems are deployed change and update very frequently, and those changes and updates can lead to errors, downtime, which erode user trust. And so when you're designing your AI, it's really critical to build it right and, and ensure it's resilient to those types of changes in the operational environment. And that really means designing it upfront to adhere to company standards around documentation, um, testing bias as well as approved model architecture. So, so that piece is really critical. The other piece about efficient AI is we're really talking about using better code structure to ensure that and enable that teams can search learn, um, and really clone AI IP to bring AI at scale across company silos. So what efficient AI does is it ensures that companies can go from proof of concept and exploration to deploying AI at scale. The final piece is really about solving the right business problems quickly in a way that ensures that users and customers will adopt and actually use the tool and capability >>That adoption there is absolutely critical. And >>You know, when we, when we're talking about AI, most of the time we're talking about three components and we call it like the ten twenty, seventy rule, 10% of the change is really about the better AI algorithms that are coming out. 20% is a better architecture, the technology, all of those components, but 70% of it is really about how are we influencing our business partners to make better decisions? How are we making sure AI is built right into the operational decision flow? And that's really, when we start talking about better AI, we move it away from kind of our pet project, buzzword bingo, into decision operational flows, you know, and, and there's, there's a journey there, there's a journey that we all are on. You see the evolution of AI right now. And I th and I liken it a lot to, um, myself when I'm, I'm a big football fan, right. And I've fantasy football is like my passion. I see. And when I look at the decision-makings, I've made 10 years ago versus now, now I actually have my own models. I'm running against it. I'm, I'm very much into the details of what is the data telling me, but, um, it's not until I bring that together with my decision making process, that really makes it so that I have bragging rights on Sundays. >>I wouldn't want to compete against Aaron. I mean, you know, I've got a lot of friends that do fantasy football, but I don't think they're taking, they're actually doing data-driven approaches as you are. One of the things I'm glad that you talked about the 10, 20, 70 formula for in dividing investments in AI. One of the things that really surprised me, and I'm looking at my notes here, because I was writing this down was that you said 10% AI and machine learning algorithms, 20% software and technology infrastructure, 70% though is also change management. That is hard, especially the speed with which every industry is operating today. What we've seen in the last 22 months, we've seen a massive acceleration to the cloud, every business pivoting, many times where our customers, in terms of understanding the challenges that they can solve with AI, given the fact that we're still in such a dynamic global environment, do what are you seeing? >>So I think it's actually quite, bi-modal some companies, including the public sector are really leaning in and exploring all the different applications and all the different solutions. Unfortunately, if they're not emphasizing that 70% on change management and the culture change and user adoption, those are substantial, but you don't get the return on the investment. Right. On the other hand, the other part of that bi-modal distribution is there are folks who are still really reluctant because they have made investments and it hasn't right. Brought about the change that they were hoping for. And so I think it's really critical to bring that holistic approach to bringing AI and advanced analytic tools to really change the way, you know, a company's attacking its problems and bringing solutions to its users and customers. >>Yeah. I like it a lot to us as us, as adults have when we teach our kids about math, right? Like less of my time with my own kids is focused on teaching them, the principles, the, and all those things, but it's more teaching them to be comfortable. Why are they learning math? What are they doing? How is that going to prepare them to be more competitive and, uh, later on in life. And so, and then the same thing's happening in this evolution in AI, right? There is this big tech and AI transformations that are happening. But the questions we need to ask ourselves within is are we taking the time to make sure our companies and our people are on the journey with us and that they understand that this is going to be better for them and give them a competitive advantage. >>That's critical. We know we've talked a lot in Alaska. We talk a lot about every show about people, process technologies and people as part of that. But I've definitely seen more of a focus. I think the last two and a half days of the people emphasis going, we have to have, we have to upskill our people. We have to train our people. We have to make sure that they're understand how this technology can partner with them and enable them rather than take things away. So it's nice to hear you talking about the big focus there being on the people that is because without that, then a deed to your point, a lot of those projects aren't successful >>And not only, I think the other piece there in terms of bringing the user along for the journey is you don't want them to feel like this is just another tool, right? Another part of their, in addition to their workflow, right? You want to take the burden away. You want it to really, um, not add, but to, to their, to their list of, of daily tasks, but subtract and make it easier. Right. And I think that that's really critical for a lot of companies as well. >>I think along with what you're talking about, we have to teach people to be responsible. So it's, it's one thing to do the job better, but it's another thing to be responsible because in today's world, we have to think about our responsibilities back to our communities, to our consumers, to our shareholders and into ultimately to the environment itself. And so responsive as we are thinking about AI, we need to think differently too, because let's face it. Data is fuel and we can accidentally make the wrong decisions for the globe by making the right decisions for stakeholders. We have to do a better job of understanding the why we're doing what we're doing, what we're doing, and not only the, the intended consequences of our decisions, but also the unintended consequences. And then we need to be responsible in the ways that we're using AI and that we're transparent in our use thereof. >>Yeah, Aaron, I think that's incredibly critical. I think responsible AI, um, has to be at the heart of, of AI transformation. And one of the interesting things that we have found is that organizations perceive their responsible AI maturity to be substantially higher than it actually is. Right. And less than 50% of organizations that have, you know, a fully implemented AI at scale, do not have a responsible AI, um, capability. And so at BCG, we've been working quite hard to integrate our gamma responsible AI program into the big AI transformations, because it's so critical. It's so absolutely important. And, and really that there's a lot of facets to that. But one of that, one of the critical ones is an ensures the goals and the outcomes of the AI systems are fair and unbiased and explainable, which is so critical. Um, I think it also ensures best that we follow best practices for data governance to protect user privacy, which I think is another critical, um, piece here, as well as minimizing any negative social or environmental impact, which again, I it's, it's just gotta be at the forefront of AI development. What about, >>And I think that there's a tech part to that too. So like one thing that we're working on called a gamma facet is really, you know, for the longest time in this AI transformation, AI was kind of a black box and it's kind of mystical, but we, we optimize our results. The transformation, when we talk about better, AI is, uh, the decision maker is in the center and knows the outcome. And so we make it a clear box. And so they're really, we're working a lot on, you know, the most common Python packages, uh, to make them more clear too, so that the business user and the data scientist understands the decisions that they're making and how it will impact the company and longer term society. >>What about the sustainability front? I mean, it's clear that I can understand why you have the 10 20, 70 approach that, that 70% is really important. There are companies that think they're much farther advanced in terms of responsible use of responsible AI responsibly than they really are. Um, but you know, we talk about sustainability all the time. It's a buzzword, but it's also something that's incredibly important to you to companies like AWS. I imagined a companies like yourself, where does, what does sustainable AI look like and how to organizations implemented along with responsible AI efficient AI? >>Yeah, I think it's the question in some ways right now, given everything that's happening around the world. And so AI for sustainability is, is really critical. I think we all have a part to play in this fight, um, to ensure our, our global environment. So I think we need to use the same AI expertise, the same AI technology that we bring to maximize revenue and minimize cost, um, to, to minimizing a company's footprint. Long-term I think that's really critical. One of the things we've seen is that 85% of companies want to reduce their emissions, but less than 10% of them know how to accurately measure right. Their footprint. And so we've been focusing on AI for sustainability across a couple of different pillars. The first is measuring the current impact from operations. The second is data mining, um, for optimal decisions to reduce that footprint. And the third is scenarios to plan better strategies to alter our impact. >>Excellent. Well, there's so much work to be done, guys. Thank you for joining me talking about what BCG is doing for responsible, efficient, ethical, and sustainable AI, a lot of opportunities. I'm sure for you guys with AWS and your list of clients, but we thank you for taking the time out to talk with us this morning. So much. I write for my guests. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube, the global leader in live tech coverage.

>>Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here live here in San Francisco for Amazon web services summit. This is the smaller event compared to reinvent the big conference in Vegas, which we were broadcasting live. I'm John furry, the founder's SiliconANGLE. This is the cube. Our flagship program where we go out to the events district to see live from the noise and a an Amazon show would not be complete without talking to the Amazon guys directly about what's going on under the hood. And our next guest is ADI Krishnan and Ryan Wade have run the Canisius teams. Guys, welcome to the cube. So we, Dave Vellante and I was not here unfortunately. He has another commitment but we were going Gaga over the says we'd love red shift in love with going with the data. I see glaciers really low cost options, the store stuff, but when you start adding on red shift and you know can, he says you're adding in some new features that really kind of really pointed where the market's game, which is I need to deal with real time stuff. >>I'll need to deal with a lot of data. I need to manage it effectively at a low latency across any work use case. Okay. So how the hell do you come up with an ISA? Give us the insight into how it all came together. We'd love the real time. We'd love how it's all closing the loop if you will for developer. Just take us through how it came about. What are some of the stats now post re-invent share with us will be uh, the Genesis for Canisius was trying to solve our metering problem. The metering problem inside of AWS is how do we keep track with how our customers are using our products. So every time a customer does a read out of dynamo DB or they read a file out of S3 or they do some sort of transaction with any of our products, that generates a meeting record, it's tens of millions of records per second and tens of terabytes per hour. >>So it's a big workload. And what we were trying to do is understand how to transition from being a batch oriented processing where we using large hitting clusters to process all that data to a continuous processing where we could read all of that data in real time and make decisions on that data in real time. So you basically had created an aspirin for yourself is Hey, a little pain point internally, right? Yeah. It's kind of an example of us building a product to solve some of our own problems first and then making that available to the public. Okay. So when you guys do your Amazon thing, which I've gotten to know about it a little bit, the culture there, you guys kind of break stuff, kind of the quote Zuckerberg, you guys build kind of invented that philosophy, you know stuff good. Quickly iterating fast. So you saw your own problem and then was there an aha moment like hell Dan, this is good. We can bring it out in the market. What were customers asking for at the same time was kind of a known use case. Did you bring it to the market? What happened next? >>We spend a lot of time talking to a lot of customers. I mean that was kind of the logistical, uh, we had customers from all different sorts of investigative roles. Uh, financial services, consumer online services from manufacturing conditional attic come up to us and say, we have this canonical workflow. This workflow is about getting data of all of these producers, uh, the sources of data. They didn't have a way to aggregate that data and then driving it through a variety of different crossing systems to ultimately light up different data stores. Are these data source could be native to AWS stores like S3 time would be be uh, they could be a more interesting, uh, uh, higher data warehousing services like Gretchen. But the key thing was how do we deal with all this massive amount of data that's been producing real time, ingested, reliably scale it elastically and enable continuous crossing in the data. >>Yeah, we always loved the word of last tickets. You know, a term that you guys have built your business around being elastic. You need some new means. You have a lot of flexibility and that's a key part of being agile. But I want you guys at while we're here in the queue, define Kenny SIS for the folks out there, what the hell is it? Define it for the record. Then I have some specific questions I want to ask. Uh, so Canisius is a new service for processing huge amounts of streaming data in real time. Shortens and scales elastically. So as your data volume increases or decreases the service grows with you. And so like a no JS error log or an iPhone data. This is an example of this would be example of streaming. Yeah, exactly. You can imagine that you were tailing a whole bunch of logs coming off of servers. >>You could also be watching event streams coming out of a little internet of things type devices. Um, one of our customers we're talking about here is a super cell who's capturing in gain data from their game, Pasha, the plans. So as you're playing clash of the plans, you're tapping on the screen. All of that data is captured in thesis and then processed by my super Supercell. And this is validated. I mean obviously you mentioned some of the use cases you needed of things, just a sensor network to wearable computers or whatever. Mobile phones, I'll see event data coming off machines. So you've got machine data, you've got human data, got application data. That's kind of the data sets we're seeing with Kinesis, right? Traverse set. Um, also attraction with trends like spark out of Berkeley. You seeing in memory does this kind of, is this in your wheelhouse? >>How does that all relate to, cause you guys have purpose-built SSDs now in your new ECQ instances and all this new modern gear we heard in the announcements. How does all the in-memory stuff affect the Canisius service? It's a great question. When you can imagine as Canisius is being a great service for capturing all of that data that's being generated by, you know, hundreds of thousands or millions of sources, it gets sent to Canisius where we replicated across three different availability zones. That data is then made available for applications to process those that are processing that data could be Hadoop clusters, they could be your own Kaloosas applications. And it could be a spark cluster. And so writing spark applications that are processing that data in real time is a, it's a great use case and the in memory capabilities and sparker probably ideal for being able to process data that's stored in pieces. >>Okay. So let's talk about some of the connecting the dots. So Canisius works in conjunction with what other services are you seeing that is being adopted most right now? Now see I mentioned red shift, I'm just throwing that in there. I'll see a data warehousing tool seeing a lot of business tells. So basically people are playing with data, a lot of different needs for the data. So how does connect through the stack? I think they are the number one use case we see is customers capturing all of this data and then archiving all of it right away to S3 just been difficult to capture everything. Right. And even if you did, you probably could keep it for a little while and then you had to get, do you have to get rid of it? But, uh, with the, the prices for us three being so low and Canisius being so easy to capture tiny rights, these little tiny tales of log data, they're coming out of your servers are little bits of data coming off of mobile devices capture all of that, aggregate it and put it in S3. >>That's the number one use case we see as customers are becoming more sophisticated with using Kinesis, they then begin to run real time dashboards on top of Kinesis data. So you could, there's all the data into dynamo DB where you could push all that data into even something like Redshift and run analytics on top of that. The final cases, people in doing real time decision making based on PISA. So once you've got all this data coming in, putting it into a dynamo DB or Redshift or EMR, you then process it and then start making decisions, automated decisions that take advantage of them. So essentially you're taking STEM the life life cycle of kind of like man walking the wreck at some point. Right? It's like they start small, they store the data, usually probably a developer problem just in efficiencies. Log file management is a disaster. >>We know it's a pain in the butt for developers. So step one is solve that pain triage, that next step is okay I'm dashboard, I'm starting to learn about the data and then three is more advanced like real time decision making. So like now that I've got the data coming in in real time and not going to act. Yeah, so when I want to bring that up, this is more of a theoretical kind of orthogonal conversation is where you guys are basically doing is we look, we like that Silicon angles like the point out to kind of what's weird in the market and kind of why it's important and that is the data things. There's something to do with data. It really points to a new developer. Fair enough. And I want to give you guys comments on this. No one's really come out yet and said here's a development kit or development environment for data. >>You see companies like factual doing some amazing stuff. I don't know if you know those guys just met with um, new Relic. They launched kind of this data off the application. So you seeing, you seeing what you guys are doing, you can imagine that now the developer framework is, Hey I had to deal with as a resource constraint so you haven't seen it. So I want to get your thoughts. Do you see that happening in that direction? How will data be presented to developers? Is it going to be abstracted away? Will there be development environments? Is it matter? And just organizing the data, what's your vision around? So >>that's really good person because we've got customers that come up to us and say I want to mail real time data with batch processing or I have my data that is right now lots of little data and now I want to go ahead and aggregate it to make sense of it over a longer period of time. And there's a lot of theory around how data should be modeled, how we should be represented. But the way we are taking the evolution set is really learning from our customers and customers come up and say we need the ability to capture data quickly. But then what I want to do is apply my existing Hadoop stack and tools to my data because then you won't understand that. And as a response to that classroom demand, uh, was the EMR connect. Somehow customers can use say hi queries or cascading scripts and apply that to real time data. That can means is ingesting. Another response to pass was, was the, that some customers that would really liked the, the, the stream processing construct a storm. And so on, our step over there was to say, okay, we shipped the Canisius storm spout, so now customers can bring their choice of matter Dame in and mail back with Canisius. So I think the, the short answer there right now is that, >>you know, it's crazy. It's really early, right? I would also add like, like just with, uh, as with have you, there's so many different ways to process data in the real time space. They're going to be so many different ways that people process that data. There's never going to be a single tool that you use for processing real time data. It's a lot of tools and it adapts to the way that people think about data. So this also brings us back to the dev ops culture, which you guys essentially founded Amazon early in the early days and you know I gotta give you credit for that and you guys deserve it. Dev ops was really about building from the ground good cloud, which post.com bubble. Really the thing about that's Amazon's, you've lived your own, your own world, right? To survive with lesson and help other developers. >>But that brings up a good point, right? So okay, data's early and I'm now going to be advancing slowly. Can there be a single architecture for dealing with data or is it going to be specialized systems? You're seeing Oracle made some mates look probably engineered systems. You seeing any grade stacks work? What's the take on the data equation? I'm not just going to do because of the data out the internet of things data. What is the refer architecture right now? I think what we're going to see is a set of patterns that we can do alone and people will be using those patterns for doing particular types of processing. Uh, one of the other teams that I run at is the fraud detection team and we use a set of machine learning algorithms to be able to continuously monitor usage of the cloud, to identify patterns of behavior which are indicative of fraud. >>Um, that kind of pattern of use is very different than I'm doing clickstream analysis and the kind of pattern that we use for doing that would naturally be different. I think we're going to see a canonical set of patterns. I don't know if we're going to see a very particular set of technologies. Yeah. So that brings us back to the dev ops things. So how do I want to get your take on this? Because dev ops is really about efficiencies. Software guys don't want to be hardware guys the other day. That's how it all started. I don't want to provision the network. I don't want a stack of servers. I just want to push code and then you guys have crazy, really easy ways to make that completely transparent. But now you joke about composite application development. You're saying, Hey, I'm gonna have an EMR over here for my head cluster and then a deal with, so maybe fraud detection stream data, it's going to be a different system than a Duke or could be a relational database. >>Now I need to basically composite we build an app. That's what we're talking about here. Composite construction resource. Is that kind of the new dev ops 2.0 maybe. So we'll try to tease out here's what's next after dev ops. I mean dev ops really means there's no operations. And how does a developer deal with these kinds of complex environments like fraud detection, maybe application here, a container for this bass. So is it going to be fully composite? Well, I don't know if we run the full circuit with the dev ops development models. It's a great model. It's worked really well for a number of startups. However, making it easy to be able to plug different components together. I get just a great idea. So, like as ADI mentioned just a moment ago, our ability to take data and Kinesis and pump that right into a elastic MapReduce. >>It's great. And it makes it easy for people to use their existing applications with a new system like pieces that kind of composing of applications. It's worth well for a long time. And I think you're just going to see us continuing to do more and more of that kind of work. So I'm going to ask both of you guys a question. Give me an example of when something broke internally. This is not in a sound, John, I don't go negative here, but you got your, part of your culture is, is to move fast, iterate. So when you, these important projects like Canisius give me an example of like, that was a helpful way in which I stumbled. What did you learn? What was the key pain points of the evolution of getting it out the door and what key things did you learn from media success or kind of a speed bump or a failure along the way? >>Well, I think, uh, I think one of the first things we learned right after we chipped and we were still in a limited previous and we were trying it out with our customers who are getting feedback and learning with, uh, what they wanted to change in the product. Uh, one of the first things that we learned was that the, uh, the amount of time that it took to put data into Canisius and receive a return code was too high for a lot of our customers. It was probably around a hundred milliseconds for the, that you put the data in to the time that we've replicated that data across multiple availability zones and return success to the client. Uh, that was, that was a moment for us to really think about what it meant to enable people to be pushing tons of data into pieces. And we went back a hundred milliseconds. >>That's low, no bad. But right away we went back and doubled our efforts and we came back in around, you know, somewhere between 30 and 40 milliseconds depending on your network connectivity. Hey, the old days, that was, that was the spitting disc of the art. 10, 20 Meg art. It's got a VC. That's right. Those Lotus files out, you know, seeing those windows files. So you guys improve performance. So that's an example. You guys, what's the biggest surprise that you guys have seen from a customer use case that was kind of like, wow, this is really something that we didn't see happening on a, on a larger scale that caught me by surprise. >>Uh, I is in use case it'd be a corner use case. Like, well, I'd never figured that, you know, I would say like, uh, some of the one thing that actually surprised us was how common it is for people to have multiple applications reading out of the same stream. Uh, like again, the basic use case for so many customers is I'm going to take all this data and I'm just going to throw it into S3. Uh, and we kind of envisioned that there might be a couple of different applications reading data of that stream. We have a couple of customers that actually have uh, as many as three applications that are reading that stream of events that are coming out of Kinesis. Each one of them is reading from a different position in the stream. They're able to read from different locations, process that data differently. >>But uh, but the idea that cleanses is so different from traditional queuing systems and yet provides, uh, a real time emotionality and that multiple applications can read from it. That was, that was a bit of a versa. The number one use case right now, who's adopting, can you sit there, watch folks watching out there, did the Canisius brain trust right here with an Amazon? Um, what are the killer no brainer scenarios that you're seeing on the uptake side right now that people should be aware of that they haven't really kicked the tires on Kinesis where they should be? What should they be looking at? I think the number one use case is log and ingestion. So like I'm tailing logs that are coming off of web servers, my application servers, uh, data that's just being produced continuously who grab all that data. And very easily put it into something like us through the beauty of that model is I now have all the logo that I got it off of all of my hosts as quickly as possible and I can go do log nights later if there's a problem that is the slam dunk use case for using crisis. >>Uh, there are other scenarios that are beginning to emerge as well. I don't know audio if you want to talk, that's many interesting and lots of customers are doing so already is emit data from all sorts of devices. So this is, these devices are not just your smartphones and tablets that are practically food computing machines, but also seemingly low power, seemingly dumb devices. And the design remains the same. There are millions of these out there and having the ability to capture that in a day produce in real time is, you know, I think just, uh, just to highlight that, one of things I'm hearing on the cube interviews, all the customers we talk to is the number one thing is I just got to scroll the date. I know what I want to do with it yet. Now that's a practice that's a hangover from the BI data warehouse in business of just store from a compliance reasons now, which is basically like, that's like laser as far as I'm concerned. >>Traditional business intelligence systems are like their version of Galatians chipped out somewhere and give me those reports. Five weeks later they come back. But that's different. Now you see people store that data and they realize that I need to touch it faster. I don't know yet when, that's why I'm teasing out this whole development 2.0 model because I'm just seeing more and more people want the data hanging around but not fully parked out in Malaysia or some sort of, you know, compliance storage. So there's, you know, I think, I think I kind of understand where you're going. There's a, I'm going to use a model for like how we used to do BI analytics and our own internal data warehouse. I also run the data warehouse for AWS. Um, and the classic BI model there is somebody asks a question, we go off and we just do some analysis and if it's a question that we're going to ask repeatedly, we don't, you know, a special fact table or a dimensional view or something to be able to grind through that particular view and do it very quickly. >>A Kunis is offers a different kind of data processing model, which is I'm collecting all of the data and make it easy to capture everything, but now I can start doing things like, Oh, there's, there's certain pieces of data that I want to respond to you quickly. Just like we would create dimensional views that would give us access to particular sets of data and very quick pace. We can now also respond to when those events are generated very quickly. Well, you guys are the young guns in the industry now. I'm a little bit older and the gray hair showing, we actually use the word data processing back in the day. The data processing that the DP department or the MIS department, if you remember those those days, MIS was the management information. Are we going back to those terms? I mean we're looking at look what's happening. >>Is it the software mainframe in the cloud? I mean these are some of the words you're using. Just data processing data pipeline. Well, I my S that's my work, but I mean we're back to those old school stuff but different, well and I think those kinds of very generic terms make a lot of sense for what we're doing is we, especially as we move into these brand new spaces like wow, what do I do with real time data? Like real time data processing is kind of the third type of big data processing or data warehousing was the first time I know what my data looks like. I've created indices like a pre computation of the data, uh, uh, Hadoop clusters and the MapReduce model was kind of the second wave of big data processing and realtime processing I think will be the third way. I think our process, well, I'm getting the hook here, but I got to just say, you guys are doing an amazing job. >>We're big fans of Amazon. I always say that, uh, you know, it was very rare in the history the world. We look at innovations like the printing press, the Wright brothers discover, you know, flying and things like we, Amazon with cloud. You guys have done something that's pretty amazing. But what I find fascinating is it's very rare to see a company that's commoditizing and disrupting and innovating at the same time. And it's really a unique value proposition and the competition is responding. IBM, Google. So you guys have a lot of targets painted on your back by a lot of big players. So, uh, one congratulations on your success, which means that you, you know, you're not going to go in the open field and fight the, the British if they said use the American revolution analogy. You've got to continue to compete. So what's your view of that? >>I mean, and I'm sure you don't talk about competition. You'd probably told him not to talk about it, but I mean, you got to know that all the guns are on you right now. The big guys are putting up the sea wall for your wave of innovation. How do you guys deal with that? It's just cause it's not like we, we ignore our competitors but we obsess about our customers, right? Like it's just constantly looking for what are people trying to do and how can we help them and can seem like a very simple strategy. But the strategy is built with people want and we get a lot of great feedback on how we can make our products better. And it certainly will force you to up your game when you have the competition citing on you. You've got more focused on the customer, which is cool. >>But like you guys kind of aware of like games on, I mean Amazon is at any given a little pep talk, Hey, game is on guys. Let's rock and roll. Right? You guys are aware, right? I think we're totally wearing, I think we're actually sometimes a little surprised at how long it's taken to our competitors to kind of get into this industry with us. So, uh, again, as Andy talked about earlier today, we've had eight years in the cloud computing market. It's been a great eight years and we have a lot of work to do, a lot of stuff that we're going to be almost ready for middle school. Um, final final question for you guys and give you the final word here. Share the photos on the last word is why is this show so important, right this point in time in this market. Why is this environment of the thousands of people that are here learning about Amazon, why, what should they know about why this is such an important advance? I think our summits are a great opportunity for us to share with customers how to use our AWS services. Learn firsthand from not only our hands on labs, but also our partners that are providing information about how they use AWS resources. It's, it's a great opportunity to meet a lot of people that are taking advantage of the cloud computing wave and see how to use the cloud most effectively. >>It's a great time to be in the cloud right now and the Olin's amazing services coming up. There's no better mind now of people coming together and so that's probably as good reasons. Then you guys are doing a great job disrupting change in the future. Modern enterprise and modern business, modern applications. Excited to watch it. If you guys keep focusing on your customer, but that customer base, you keep up the pace that's sick. That question, can you finish the race? That's what I always tell Dave a lot. They, I know Jay's watching Dave. Shout out to Dave Volante, who's on the mobile app right now is traveling. Guys, thanks for coming inside. Can he says great stuff. Closing the loop real time. Amazon really building it out. Thanks for coming on. If you'd be right back with our next guest after this short break. Thank you.

>> You're watching theCUBE. Welcome to our continuous coverage of AWS re-Invent 2021. I'm Dave Nicholson. We've got an amazing event that's been going on for the last four days with two live sets, two studios, more than 100 guests, and two very distinguished gentlemen here on the set with us live in Las Vegas. I'd like to welcome Krishna Mohan, Vice President and Global Head of TCS's AWS Business Unit. Welcome Krishna. >> Thank you Dave. >> Dave: And also with us Aditya Jagapal Nagarajan. >> Thank you. >> Dave: I hope I did your name justice. >> Perfect. >> Right, I tried. And Aditya is Head of Strategy and Business Operations for the TCS AWS Business Unit. Krishna, starting with you, tell us about TCS and AWS over the last year. What's been going on. >> Yeah. >> Thank you Dave for having me here. It's great to be in person actually, back in re-Invent, back in person, 25,000 people, but still we have pretty good measures, health measures that way. So I'm very happy to be here. TCS AWS business unit was formed three quarters back and we actually had always AWS partnership, but we actually felt that it's important to kind of have a separate business unit, which is the full stack, multi dimensional unit providing cloud migration modernization across applications, data, and infrastructure, and also main focus on industry solutions. So it has been a great three quarters, and our partnership only enhanced significantly, predominantly what we're actually seeing in the last one year. The cloud overall transformation, I think it kind of taken a different shape. It used to be cloud migration, modernization, cloud native development, but from there it has moved to enterprise transformation, that's happening on cloud, and specifically AWS majority of the time. So with that, we actually see a lot of customers. Broadly you can categorize them into three, cloud for IT, cloud for business, and cloud for innovation. And we're definitely seeing maximum traction there with our customers across the three categories. So I'm super excited to be here at the re-Invent, you know, a couple of our customers were in the keynote, Abort and Adam and Doug. In the Western Union was the keynote, Shelly covered at Western union transformation in the partner keynote with Doug, and very happy to see Linda Cower, the transformation in the United Headlines with Adam. So it's really great to see how we are helping the customers on the transformation. That's definitely, you know, the way that we see. And we have made significant progress on the overall in the last three quarters. And these kinds of wins and business transformation that has actually happened is what resulted in TCS getting the Raising Star GSA award for us. So I'm pretty happy to actually carry this little thing here. >> Is that what this is? >> Absolutely. So it means a lot because our customer in our kind of reinforcing the value, the TCS, along with AWS is bringing to the customer. >> So I wasn't going to say anything. I just assumed that you were a 2001 Space Odyssey fan and you just brought, you know, a version of the monolith with you. I wasn't sure. Congratulations. >> Thank you. That's a quite an achievement especially in the relatively short period of time. And especially with the constraints that have been placed upon all of us. Did they give you like a schwag bag with a bunch of, with, you know, like they do at the academy awards? Are you familiar with that. >> We had a great fun event on Monday afternoon. >> Fantastic. >> Yeah. >> Aditya, talk about, you're a consultancy, your organization is a consultancy. Talk about how you engage with the customers that you are helping to bridge the divide between what their business requirements are, and the technology that AWS is delivering. Because I think we all agree that everything we're seeing here from AWS is wonderful, but without an organization like yours, actual end users, actual customers, have a hard time driving benefits. So, how do you approach that? >> Gladly thank you, Dave, and thank you for theCUBE for having us here. And just borrowing from what Krishna talked about, the three layers of value creation, the cloud for IT, cloud for business and cloud for innovation. We see the journeys clients take, to start with how they look at IT modernization, and go all the way to business transformation, and look at ecosystem transformation as well. For example, we just heard about Western Union and we just came off of one with SWBC where they have completely modernized the payment systems on AWS and TCS has been the partner for transforming that for them. And that not only just means the technology layers, but also re imagining business processes in the cloud. Moving on from the financial side, if you look at the digital farming, for example, we have been working with some of the leading, the transmitter players in the healthcare industry and in the manufacturing space to look at helping farmers with AI. Right? And helping them look at how they can ensure better analytics and drone capabilities for digital farming. Drug trial development and acceleration for time to market has been a front and center for all of us in the last two years where I've been helping pharmacy organizations get better and will bring up drug trials and reach the end customers better with cloud. So there's various examples here. >> I want to poke on that a little bit. >> Aditya: Yeah. So when TCS is engaging a customer, say in farming versus pharma, how much of your interaction with them is specialized by industry vertical or specific area expertise versus the generic workings that are going to be supporting that effort in the background? What does that look like? Are you going in first with a pharma discussion, first with the farm discussion, as opposed to an overall discussion? >> It's a great point you mentioned Dave because that's the sort of essence of TCS. Because the way we look at it, we actually appeal to the industry specific. So our domain and contextual knowledge is very important to appeal to the customers and to the various stakeholders, no longer are the days where you talk about technology as a means to an end. We talk about how end customers can benefit in that context of what they're going through in that industry. And how can then technology be part of that strategy, right? So, hence, as you rightly said, domain and context first, followed by technology powering the outcome. >> Even though farm and pharma sound a lot alike. >> Right, I showed you the very difference. >> And they may share some things in common. Yes, very, very different. Krishna, talk about your go to market motion. How are clients aware of TCS? Do you have teams that engage clients directly and then bring AWS into the conversation? Or are you being brought in by AWS? Is it a combination? What does that look like? >> So, very good relevant question. So our GTM strategies is TCS has been in the, you know, serving the enterprise customers and IT transformation for 52 years now. So we have a huge base. But specifically from an AWS BU perspective, we are focusing on selective verticals, banking financial services and insurance is large, life sciences, health care, and travel, transportation and hospitality. So these are the verticals that we're actually focusing on, and given our presence in the enterprise sector, we already have a direct sales teams who are engaging with the customers directly on enterprise transformation and business transformation. And once we have that conversation, we actually take all these solutions that we have built on AWS and along with AWS. There are few customers in the last three quarters, after farming the AWS business unit, one thing that we did is with AWS we're proactively going and identifying the logos and the customers. And with the focus not on technology, with the focus on how to solve their problems on the business side and how to create new business models. So it's kind of both. We bring in, AWS brings in logos as well, so Greenfield accounts, and as well as our contextual knowledge of the industry is how the GTM is working out, and working out pretty good. >> You mentioned, you've been at this for 52 years. >> Aditya: Yeah. >> You must've been very young when you started doing this. Talk about the internal dynamics. So think of TCS, the larger organization. You represent the AWS business unit. TCS has been doing this for a long time, predating what we think now of as cloud. I'm sure that you have long existing relationships with customers, where you've been doing things for them that aren't cloudy, and those things keep the lights on at TCS, right? Important sources of revenue. Yet you're going in and you're consulting and saying, hey, you know, it might be better for you, Mr. Customer, to work with AWS and TCS, as opposed to maybe being at a data center that TCS manages, I mean, how do you manage that internal dynamic? You've got to have people at TCS who are saying, stay away, that's my revenue, don't move my cheese. What does that look like? >> Very valid question Dave. So the way that TCS is actually looking at is, twin engine strategy. There's a cost and optimization strategy, which we have. We sell the customers and operations, running the BAU if you will, business as usual, then you have something called growth and transformation. So as a strategy that we are very clear that the path of business transformation is growth and transformation channel. So we as a company are very comfortable cannibalizing our C and O in a business because we want to be relevant to the market, relevant to the customer, and relevant to the partner ecosystem. So the only way you are relevant is actually to challenge yourself, cannibalize your own business, and for the long, you know, strategy of looking at how to grow. And that's how our twin engine strategy is working. And there are a lot of customers where we have developer with contextual knowledge serving 20 years, 25 years of the customers. We know how they work, what their business is actually, you know, what's going to be the future of the business. So we are in a better position to actually transform them. And as a company, we already took cannibalize our revenue. >> So Adi, give us an example of working with a customer and give us an idea of what that customer's perspective is in terms of their place on the spectrum of, I don't want to move anything if I don't have to versus, hey, you guys can't move fast enough to deliver what I want. Where are you seeing that spectrum of customer requirements at this point? Do you feel like you're having to lead people to water still? Where are we with that? >> Well, if you asked me this question a couple of years ago, it would be about, hey, look, here's a beautiful water and the lake looks good, why don't we spend by the side and see what it tastes like? Now the question is, how much water to drink? Right? So the point being that customers have fast realized that cloud is not just an IT decision, it's a business transformation decision. So if I may just call it back what Krishna talked about, the dual engine strategy. A clear Testament to that is some of our relationships, most of our relationships are the matter has been over two decades with our clients. And that's a perfect indication of being constantly relevant for them because as their models change, as their markets change, customer expectations change, we need to constantly innovate ourselves. >> You're innovating your business just like that. >> Absolutely. >> Correct. >> So you know, as we say, you're in the boat with them and you're going through the same changes. >> And so coming back to the question which you asked, the point was we give them a point of what experience they can have with cloud by each stakeholder. The CIO wants to look at how we can look at better sustainability of their operations, keep the lights on as you said, enhance stability with more automatable capabilities, looking at DevOps, the business is completely looking at how can cloud fundamentally change my business model. And you have both these stakeholders coexisting with the same outcome towards enterprise transformation. And that's the experience which we work with them to shape. To say what the starting point is? Where would they like to go? And how can we go to them in the journey? What's interesting here is, nobody has all the answers. Neither is AWS nor customer the TCS, but we are here to create a culture of discovering the right goal and the right answers. It's very important. That's the approach to getting it working. >> Krishna and our last minute together. You've just received the Rising Star Award, 2022 is rapidly approaching, this doesn't put any pressure on you at all for 2022 because people are going to ask, what are those rising stars do again in 2022? What's on the horizon, what are the two of you excited about for next year? >> I think we are super excited with how AWS, you know, definitely in Adam's keynote, if I had to take a couple of points that I'm taking away is in addition to enhancing their core cloud capabilities, but if there's pivoted on industry solutions, you know, the fin space that they have announced, and the industrial solutions that they have announced. So that is where it very clearly aligns to our strategy of TCS, helping customers look for change their business models, implement new business models, create ecosystem play. And that's basically where we are really super excited. And another point which I took from Adam is the, they're focused on Edge with IOT and private 5G. And that's very, very important especially when you look at it both IT, as well as the IOT transformation. So we are super excited with the potential, all the new bells and whistles AWS is rolled out in last four days, And looking forward for few more of this. >> Congratulations again. It's a fantastic acknowledgement of what you've been able to do over the last, just three quarters as you mentioned, closing out 2021 in a very, very good way. Looking forward to 2022. Thank you gentlemen for joining us today here on theCUBE, and thank all of you for joining us, for continuing continuous Cube coverage of AWS re-Invent 2021. We are the leader in hybrid technology event coverage. I'm Dave Nicholson stay tuned for more from theCUBE.

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE conversation. >> Hi, everyone. Welcome to theCUBE Studios here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here for coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit. This is theCUBE Virtual with our quarantine crew going out and covering the latest posts of the Virtual Summit where our next guest is Matthew Cornelius, Executive Director for the Alliance for Digital Innovation. Matthew, thanks for joining me today for part of AWS virtual Public Sector Summit. >> That's great, thanks, John. Appreciate you having me. >> I know that John Wood and I have been talking about this organization and some of the ambition and the relevance of it. So I think it's a super important story. I want to get your thoughts on this in an unpack kind of the mission but for starters, tell us what is the Alliance for Digital Innovation? When were you formed? What's the mission? What do you do? >> Sure. Yeah, so ADI was formed about two years ago, to create a new advocacy group that could focus explicitly on getting cloud forward, commercial, highly innovative companies into the public sector. So the government technology space has traditionally been dominated by a lot of legacy vendors, folks that are very happy with vendor lock-in, folks that have an outdated business model that would not suffice in the commercial sector. So why does it have to be that way for government and ADI started with about eight members has since grown. We're approaching two dozen now. So we've had a lot of growth and I think a lot of the response that you've seen in the public sector, especially to the COVID crisis, and the response and relief efforts have made this organization and our mission more relevant now than ever. There's no way that you can go back to the previous way of doing business, so adopting all these commercials technologies, changing your business model, changing your operating model, and really use an emerging technology to deliver all these missions services is critical. >> You know, one of the things that I've been reporting on for many, many years is this idea of modernization. Certainly on the commercial side with cloud, it's been really important and Amazon has done extremely well, from a business standpoint. We all know that where that's going. The issue that's happening now is the modernization is kicking in. So the government has started to move down this track, we've seen the procurement start to get more modernized. Move from buying manuals to actually having the modern stuff and in comes COVID-19. You couldn't have accelerated, you couldn't have pulled the future forward fast enough to an already struggling federal government, in my opinion, and I've talked to many people in DC and the young crowd saying, "Hey, old government get modern", and then this comes. It's almost like throwing the rock on your back and you're sinking. This is a problem. What's your take on this? Because you're trying to solve a problem with modernizing, but now you got COVID-19 coming in, it compounds the complexity and the challenge. What's your chosen reaction to that? >> Yeah, so it there's a multifaceted response to this. So part of it is what I like to say is the government's done more in the past four months than it's done in the past 14 years when it comes to modernization and adopting commercial capabilities. I think with individual agencies, you've seen those those agencies, I will name a couple like the Small Business Administration, the General Services Administration, where I used to work, folks that were already heavily invested in cloud, heavily invested in modern digital tools and modern digital processes, they were able to weather this storm and to deal especially in SPS case, with a dramatic increase in their mission. I mean, running the paycheck Protection Program is something unlike an organization that size has ever seen. And from a technology standpoint, they have a lot of good stories that are worth telling and I think it's because they were so cloud forward. I think one of the other interesting points that as really come to light over the past four months is so many of the issues around modernization were cultural. Now, of course, there are some that are legal, there's acquisition, there's the way agencies are appropriated and financed and the way they can spend their money, but by and large, all of these agencies had to move to maximum telework, they had to get rid of all of these outdated on premise processes, these paper based processes that they had. And although surely there were some bumps in the road, and that was not easy, especially for these folks working around the clock to keep their agencies operational to make sure citizens are getting the services, they need, especially during this crisis, I think there's a lot of great success stories that you see there and because of this, no one even if they're allowed to go back into the office or when they're allowed to go back in the office, people are going to understand how much more productive they are, how much more technologically capable they are. And that's not just CIO officers that's people on programs in the front lines delivering services that mission response. We've really seen it powerful word over the last four months. >> You know, Matthew, I've been very vocal given that I'm kind of the old guy, get off my lawn kind of commentary. (Matthew laughs) I've seen that the waves and I remember coming in when I was in my late 20s and 30s old school enterprises, the commercial business wouldn't do business with startups, you had to be approved or you were in entrenched vendors supporting those things and then in comes the web, in comes the 90s, and then the web came there's more agile, you had startups that were more open and working with commercial vendors. It seems like we're seeing that movie play out in public sector where you have the entrenched incumbents, they got the town wired, who knows what's going on. It's been called the Beltway bandits for years and Tris and Curson and I talk about that all the time, but now the government can be agile, and startups need to be product to these new solutions, like whether it's video conferencing or virtual events, things like we do. New solutions are coming that need to come in, it's hard. Can you share how a company whether it's a startup or a new solution can come in and work with the government? Because the perception is, it's impossible. >> Yeah, and part of why ADI exist is to break that down. One to recruit more members to join us to really help drive commercial innovation in the government. And we have some very large companies like AWS and others that do an awful lot of work with the government. And we have a lot of smaller startups that are interested in dipping their toe in there. And so we try to help them demystify how it is that you go about working with the government. I think there have been again, some good success stories on this one. I think that there are lots of places like the Department of Defense, a lot of the folks in the intelligence community, some other agencies, they have authorities, they have partnership programs that make it easier for folks to adopt commercial innovation. They have unique authorities like other transaction authorities or commercial solutions offerings that really lowers the barrier for new technologies to be piloted and potentially scaled inside government. But that's not the case across lots of agencies, and that's why we advocate broadly for getting the acquisition process to move at the speed of technology. If there are good authorities that work in some agencies, let's get into everybody, let's have everybody try it because the people in the agencies, the acquisition professionals, the technical professionals, they have to be committed to working with industry, so the industry is committed to working with them. And as a former federal employee, myself, I worked at the Office of Management and Budget and the General Service Administration, I always was upset at the fact that the government is very good at speaking to industry, but not very good at working with industry and listening, and so we see a lot more of that now and I think part of that is a response to COVID, but it's also the recognition that you can't do things the way you used to do it, the traditional butts in seats contracting business model where everybody in between a federal employee and that outsourced service provider. You don't need all those people there, you can do it yourself and be just as effective and get all the real outcomes you're looking for with commercial innovation. >> It sounds like ADI your priorities is to make things go fast and be modernized. So I have to ask you, the question that's on my mind, probably on everyone's mind is, what are the key conversations or messages you provide to the agencies, heads or members of Congress to get them excited about this, to take action to support what you're doing? Because let's face it, most of these guys up on the Hill are girls now, most of them have a law backgrounds, they don't have a tech background. So that's a complaint that I've heard in the hallways in DC is, the guy making all the decisions doesn't know jack about tech. >> No, it's it's a great point. When we advocate up on the Hill there's a law that I don't think a lot of folks pay in awful lot of attention to. Everybody likes the nice new things that are coming from Capitol Hill but there's a great piece of legislation from 1994 for the Federal Acquisition Streamlining Act. We actually did some tremendous original research at ADI, about a year ago and released an interesting report that got a lot of uptick here. And most people don't even understand that the law requires you to do market research and see if there's a commercial product or service that meets your need before you go down building any sort of specific requirements or building out some sort of long procurement process. And so a lot of what we're doing is educating folks, not just on what the law says, but on why these can lead to better outcomes for agencies. I mean, I truly believe that most of the folks in government whether they're technical folks or not want to do the best thing, but if you're a company trying to do business with the government, you have to go through what is often a five or six or sometimes 10 person human supply chain. There's someone in government who wants your solution because it addresses a particular problem, and between them, and you the company, there's all sorts of additional bureaucratic overlays and folks that are not technical, that have other incentives and other priorities that don't always lead to the most optable procurement outcome. So there's an educational component, there's a cultural component. We need more champions inside government. We need not just better technology that's wanting to work with the government but we also need smarter, better people inside that understand the technology and can get to it the way they need to get to it so that they can deliver mission. >> As someone like me who's in the technology business, who loves entrepreneurship, loves business, loves the impact of technology, I'm not a public servant, and I'm not at that up to speed on all the government kind of inside baseball, so I kind of look at it a little bit differently. I've always been a big proponent of public private partnerships that's been kicked around in the past. It's kind of like digital transformation, kind of cliche, but there's been some pockets of success there, but look at the future. The role of influence and the commercial impact just China, for instance, just riffing the other day with someone around China doesn't actually go through government channels for how they deal with the United States. There's a little commercial, they have intellectual property issues going on, people saying they're stealing, they're investing in the United States. So there's a commercial influence. So as the government has to look at these commercial influences, they then have to modernize their workforce, their workloads, their applications, their workplaces. The work is not just workloads, it's workplace, workforce. So if you had your way, how would you like to see the landscape of the federal technology piece of this look like in five years? Because there's now new influence vectors coming in that are outside the channels of federal purview. >> No, it's a great question, and I appreciate you bringing up the other complexities around nation state actors in China and everything else. Obviously, supply chain security and being able to deal with legitimate security threat is critical when you're inside government. I mean, your first sort of purpose is to do no harm and to make sure that you're keeping citizen data, whether it's classified or unclassified secure. We think at ADI that there's a great balance to be heard there and part of that is if you're working with American companies, and you're adopting the best and most agile and most innovative commercial technology that America has to offer, that's going to make our industry more competitive and position it better in the commercial market and it's also going to make government agencies more effective. They're going to be able to meet their mission faster, they're going to be able to lower costs, they're going to be able to shift what are going to be tighter and tighter budgets over the next four or five or 10 years to other areas because they're not wasting so much money on these old systems and this old business processes, this old way of doing business. So you that is one of the balances that we have to take from an advocacy standpoint. We have to understand that supply chain security, cybersecurity are real issues, but security can also be an enabler to innovation and not an impediment and if a lot of the commercial capabilities that are coming out now and a lot of these companies like the ones ADI represents, want to do business with the government, and their commercial products can inherently be more secure than a lot of these old bespoke systems or old business practices. That's good for not just federal agencies, that's good for citizens and that's good for our national defense and our economy. >> You know, I look at our landscape and being an American born here, looking at other emerging countries, certainly China's one example of becoming very world digital native, even other areas where 5G and then telecom has made great internet access, you're seeing digital native countries, so as we modernize, and our lawmakers have more tech savvy and things become digital native, the commercial enabling piece is a huge thing, having that enabling technology, because it creates wealth and jobs and other things so you got three things, digital native country, enabling technologies to promote good and wealth and engine of economic value, and then societal impact. What's your take on those three kind of pillars? Because we're kind of as a country coming into this world order and look at the younger generation, they're all screaming for it, we're digital native, and all kinds of arbitrage there, fake news, misinformation, then you got enabling technology with the cloud, and then you get societal benefits, future of elections and everything else. So what's your thoughts? 'Cause it sounds like you're thinking about these things in your Digital Innovation Alliance. >> Yeah, absolutely. The one thing I will say and as someone that was a former federal employee, the one thing we need more of whether you're on the executive branch or in Congress, we need more people that like you said, are digital natives that understand technology that also want to be inside government either running programs or dealing with policy issues. We need as many good new ideas and folks with real, legitimate, necessary and current skills in there. Because if you don't understand the technology, you don't understand, like you said the societal impacts, you don't understand the business impacts of government decision making and the government can drive markets. I mean, especially in the middle of Coronavirus, we're spending trillions of dollars to keep folks afloat and we're using technology primarily as a way to make that happen. So the first thing I would say is, we need, we continue, need to continue, sorry, we need to continue to recruit and retain and train the best and the brightest to go into government service because it is a joy and a privilege to serve government and we've got to have better smarter technical people in there or we're going to keep getting these same outcomes, like you've mentioned over the past 30 plus years. >> I think we're in a JFK moment where John F. Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, "what you can do for your country". Moment in the modern era and that was the 60s, that we saw the revolution of that happen there, we're kind of having a digital version of that now where it's an opportunity for people to get involved, younger generations and make change rather than arguing about it. So I feel fairly strongly about this so I think this is an opportunity. Your reaction to that? >> No, that's a fantastic point. I hadn't really thought about the JFK resemblance. From an industry standpoint, I think that is what is happening with these emerging technology companies and even some of the large companies. They understand that this is their way to contribute to the country whose R&D dollars and these public private partnerships helped a lot of these folks to grow and become the companies they are now. At least started them down that road. And so for us at the Alliance for Digital Innovation and the companies that are a part of us that is sort of purposeful to who we are. We do what we do and we want the government to build stronger relationships and to use this technology, because it does serve mission. I mean, we exclusively focus on the public sector. Focus of these companies and it's tremendously valuable when you see a federal agency who spent five or 10 years and hundreds of millions of dollars and still not solving a problem and then they can pick up the commercial off the shelf technology from a company that we represent, and can solve that problem for $5 million and do it in six months. I mean, that's truly rewarding and whether you're inside government or out, we should all celebrate that and we should find ways to make that the norm and not the exception. >> And take all that hate and violence and challenge it towards voting and getting involved. I'm a big proponent of that. Matthew, thank you so much for taking the time. I'll give you the last word. Take a minute to put a plug in for the Alliance for Digital Innovation. Who are the charter members, who's involved? I know John Wood from Telos is a charter member. Who's involved, how did it all start? >> Yeah. >> Give it taste of the culture and who's involved. >> Yeah, thanks, John. So, yeah, like you mentioned, we have tremendous members, AWS is obviously a great partner. We have a lot of big companies that are involved, Google Cloud, Salesforce, Palantir, Palo Alto Networks. We also have great midsize and small companies. You think of Telos, you think of SAP NS2 and Iron Net, you think of Saildrone. We've got companies that whose technology product and service offerings run the range for government needs. We all come together because we understand that the government can and should and must do better to buy and leverage commercial technology to meet mission outcomes. So that is what we focus on. And, frankly, we have seen tremendous growth since COVID started. I mean, we are 24 members now we were at 18, just four months ago, but I like to say that ADI is an organization whose mission is more important and more resonant now, not just in the technology, parts of government, but at the secretary level at the Chief Acquisition Officer level, in Congress. We are folks that are trying to paint the future, we're doing a positive vision for change for what government can and should be. And for all of those other technology companies that want to be a part of that, that understand that the government can do better, and that has ideas for making it work better and for getting commercial innovation into government faster, to solve mission outcomes and to increase that trust between citizens and government, we want you. So if folks are interested in joining you got people that are watching out there, you can go to alliance4digitalinnovation.org. We're always accepting interested applicants and we look forward to continuing this message, showing some real outcomes and helping the government for the next year, five years, 10 years, really mature and modernize faster and more effectively than it has before. >> Great mission, love what you're doing. I think the future democracy depends on these new models to be explored, candidly and out in the open, and it's a great mission, we support that. Thanks for taking the time, Matthew. Appreciate it. >> Thanks, John. Have a great Public Sector Summit. >> Okay, this is theCUBE coverage of AWS Public Sector Virtual Summit. I'm John Furrier here in theCUBE Virtual. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for more coverage. (gentle music)

>>live from Las Vegas. It's the two covering AWS executive. Something brought to you by extension, >>everyone to the cubes. Live coverage of the ex Censure Executive Summit here at AWS. Reinvent I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, and we're kicking off two days off Walter Wall coverage here at the Accenture Executive Summit. Joining me today is Key Shore, Dirk. He is the global lead growth and strategy and Cloud Attic Center. Thank you so much for coming on the Q. Thank >>you. Thanks. Very nice to be here. I'm absolutely excited to be here on dhe love to talk to you about our new platform. >>Exactly. So the thing about Cloud and then this is this is really the topic of the day is that it presents this opportunity to drive innovation and power, business agility and to reduce costs and to streamline operations. But with that tremendous opportunity, there comes this really over abundance of choice. How? Let's before we start talking about your new platform, talk about how you think companies ought to start to think through these multiple decisions that they have to make when trying to decide the right cloud solution. >>If you know, we actually talked to our Lord for clients we work with. And when we actually looked at, you know, the cloud adoption among enterprise is only 20% of actually adopted cloud. 80% of the enterprises are looking to see how to leverage it. Now, when we talk to our own clients and then we figured out, you know that you know, what is it that is challenging them to get the cloud? And we also had, uh, data points, which existed A 2/3 of them are not seeing the full value off what they need to expect from the cloud. So these challenges were in front of us, and we really wanted to help our clients. And if you really look at the complexity that is that is there today in terms of choices, there are multiple options. Do I go public private hybrid and our clients a challenge. A paralyzed with all these choices. And how do I How do I build my enterprise? You know, earlier it was all about just infrastructure. They're not the enterprise applications went to cloud. Now they want to run their business in the cloud. If you're betting your business in the cloud. You really need to be sure it's not just a business, Lee deciding. I want to be in the cloud for this application. So when you have that strategic choice, you really need good advice and they're looking at us like, you know, Hey, sure, Help me, help me decide. Help me figure out the business case helped me plan. I need to see what are the options and what is the right choice for me. That's a plank. So that's where we're willing to help. And that's the context. And that's the genesis off. Why we thought about a platform like my name is about navigating this complex city. Life was simple earlier. Now >>it's a little bit >>complex, and we're helping you navigate that complex. >>So you've painted this picture of companies. As you said, only 20% have adopted the cloud. Many have yet to see value from it, and they are paralyzed by choice. So you've created my now tell us more about mine enough so one of our >>clients are all about I want to get this >>right the first time, >>so they have tried multiple times and and there's a reason why only 20% of their they've tried it multiple times. There had some challenges. Ah, lot off. Our clients want to get their data application aspect and strategy right for the cloud. They want to get the right solution there. Bean challenged with the right solution. What is it that is gonna be in the cloud, or is the architecture looked like? And they've not been able to visualize it until unless they put hundreds of people on the ground. You actually make it work if their performance challenges. So let me just step back a bit where, you know, you had your application running for 10 years, and suddenly you're taking to Cloud doesn't perform the same way in the cloud as it was performing in a data center. So these challenges are to be assimilated for our clients. So one of the aspects in supporting hundreds of people on the ground for 6 12 weeks, Why can't I do it in a day to figure out how to assimilate this and that is the power of minor were able to figure out the right architecture, the right solution, and simulate that for our clients to visualize, you know, think of it like you have a new home and you >>want to >>kind of figure out How does that new home look like? No. Does the kitchen look different? You want to visualize it? Would you go to a new home without a plan? Would you go to a new home without an architecture? And what if I can give you a three d simulation of how that whole plan looks like? My nap does that for you. My now helps you navigate through that architecture recommence the right solution. Then you can visualize. Oh, this is the right thing for me. Obviously, you have a lot of constraints. You gotta get your kitchen stuff, right? Bedroom stuff, right? How do you bundle things? Very similarly, Adi Bundle applications. How does it look there? And that's exactly what my numbers. >>I'm thinking about it in terms of the way that they trained pilots in this in the simulator atmosphere. So tell it, how does it work? So let me give >>you a gamut of things that we do. So a lot of clients asked me, Hey, you know, I'm talking about 80 person who are not in the cloud is their business case. So I had to give them a view off. Well, it all comes down to What is the financial financials off it? Is it the five year run? You know, Is it like, how much how much I'm going to say you're one? Is that your two year three? I was gonna back my bottom line. That's the first part. Then it comes down to who do I go? It, You know, what are the choices I have? Then it comes down to, you know, I'm taking my say enterprise application to cloud. What is the architecture looked like today? What is the architecture looked like in the cloud? And what is the architecture looked like two years down the line, which includes Arman increase customer base. I have tohave Ah, lot more users that are gonna be added to my enterprise application. I need to see what that architecture looks like. It's one click of a button. My now gives that to you. And a lot of my clients asked me how long is it gonna take? It's a very simple question, but then you gotta figure out how you bundled applications. How do you take the migration plan. Then you'll have some holidays where you don't want to do anything. You want to stop the business while they're doing your cloud migration. So we actually give you a migration plan coming out off. It is your what we call this bill of Materials. Essentially, this is exactly what you need for you to be in the cloud. That plan is what minor gives you. And then after that, you're gonna execute, and then we have ability to manage it through our management platforms. So minor helps you and therefore phases, which is discover, assess, architect and similar it and then you actually do the migration, and then you do the manage part. So the discover assets architects simulate, which is what I've been talking to you about today is what might have does. So it helps you discover the infrastructure aspect application aspect, date aspect it will assess based on your needs, what you need. Then it'll architect it for you, and it'll also assimilated for you. We have not had a platform that helps you simulate things in the cloud in applying conversations. So this is something that plane's value. I have a lot of planes across Jim, Japan, Spain, all over the world, reaching out saying, Hey, I really need help. This is exactly what I was looking for and that's that's how these time conversations are going for us. And they're like, I needed to be part off your core aspect, how you deliver these things. So that's how we do workshops with our clients. We can work with them and say, This is how we do this And once they get comfortable So the 80% of the people are waiting for some comfort level disk, Use them that comfortable that Yes, I know what I'm doing. These guys know what they're doing, and I feel I can go back and run my business there. >>So I mean, as you said, so many of them are paralyzed because they want to get it right the first time. So So my novice, really giving them the comfort level to make these decisions? Or are they then really, just understanding what they need and then how to think forward in terms of creating that plan. >>In Accenture, you have done 30,000 projects in the cloud. We know what is right. So based on our depository off projects that we have, we know which architectures work. So we >>have >>an artificial intelligence engine which actually sister these architectures and then recommends what is right for outlined. So essentially, the plants have, ah stronger affinity toe what works so essentially, when we recommend to them you're saying, Hey, you know, this is something that worked at this client E, which is what works a client. So we are reusing a depository off reliable, credible architecture that supports the current line needs from a depository of the existing what we call as working architectures that is out there and essentially this ability to kind of learn. Obviously we will work with the client. Things can still change, and then we can off make sure that the right thing goes into the depository, and the next time we come back and recommend toe the 3001st client, we know what works and that that's exactly the power off. It is the ability to learn ability to understand and ability to recommend. I'm just keeping it simple for our clients to understand so that they don't have toe get Swan with the complexity of cloud you just have to navigate this. >>I mean, it almost is the best practices machine in the sense that it really understands industry to industry, company to company, the right kinds of architecture. >>So, for example, in the business case, so we have reportedly off costs for all the different industries. So when my spin exceed, the benchmarking costs for airline industry is very different from the bench marking cost for utilities. So when I prepare a business case, I'm looking through the depository off my industry data that we are working with our clients based on that industry data actually build the business case. So it's not a business case just built on very much off a data center because the cost off employees the capital cost the operation was very different for different industries. So you lied to consider a 10 industry angle in terms of how you estimate the business case. Coming out of that, we have the ability to estimate so we also have aspects where a lot of clients don't have eight and weeks to decide. The board is asking them, Hey, what you gonna do? So we have the ability to have a business case for the strategy deals that we say, and we're able to very quickly revert back because we have a lot of repositories of data that we have with us. That helps in that conversation. >>So when time is of the essence, this is what matters. I read an article that you wrote recently for ex Center. I believe it was an ex center block where you talked about the hype around Cloud and how companies were so eager to get on board with Cut With Cloud because they wanted greater efficiency. They wanted to be able to innovate more quickly, and yet it wasn't happening right away. I'm I'm wondering, where is the mindset right now? Are our company's understanding now that it is going to take time to capture the benefits? Or how would you? How would you describe the client mindset? So I would say >>they're two different generations of planks, clients who are already there and clients for getting there. The planes are already there. We're looking at aspects of transformation elements. I want to do my eye. I want my data analytics in the cloud, so we're helping them. Its second generational elements of cloud It's not just about moving your application we're talking to them about, you know, how do you run your business in terms of recommendation engines that you have in the cloud? So what do you need for the evacuation? Cleansing off data elements off it, essentially taking your data to the cloud. Now there are first generation aspects who are almost around data center aspects. You know, they want to get rid of the data centers. They want to go into the cloud. So my now helps both of them. My never helps clients who are essentially navigating through the cloud for the first time gives the more confidence, and they have that kind of getting the help of our collective, which works. And for the first condition, clients were already there in terms of in the club. We're helping them transformative aspects in terms of future systems. What for your future systems looked like, and cloud is an enabler for it, whether it's boundary less adaptable are radically human element off what a new application would look like. A business would look like you need to have flowers, a foundation elements for those those clients are in the 20% You're telling them Hey, cloud, you're already in the foundational aspect of it. Now you need to build boundless applications. Now you need to build adaptable. Now you need to build radically human applications. So how do you build radical human applications? You gotta have the eye when you have to have a I you need to have data. How do you get data? You need to curate plans and basically capture the data that you need so that you can build a re engines on top. So those are different levels of conversation with different maturity off up lines. But we're happy to help them in either of the spectrum's, because a lot of our clients are looking at obviously vetting their business on the cloud now. So we are looking for strategic partners for reliable partners who understand that industry, and with 30,000 projects, we >>are we are >>helping our clients make those decisions. >>So beyond making sure that we're talking about the 80% that are not yet there but our but our curious cloud curious beyond getting mine off platform stat, What is your best advice for those companies right now? >>So what we tell her clients is that you need to look at the end to end aspect of cloud. Do not look at it as a single application going to cloud. So when we talk to our clients way, look at generation, they're doing a lot of the transformative elements is about future systems. We start our conversation around your future systems aspect off it, and then, obviously clouds and enabling element of foundation really meant to get you there. But then essentially, if you want to run your business in the cloud, least the things you need to do. So the transformative aspects is what our clients are willing to work with us. So we tell them, Don't just take it to the cloud just from a obviously cost perspective. Obviously, you will gain a lot from that. But you also need to look at what you want to do in the cloud. It's not just going through the cloud. What? What do you want to do in the cloud? >>Well, key. Sure. Those air. Great great words of advice. Thank you so much for coming on. The Cuba was a pleasure having you. >>Thank you very much. >>I'm Rebecca night. Stay tuned for more of the cubes. Live coverage of the Accenture Executive Summit

>> live from San Francisco celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to San Francisco. We continue our coverage here. Live on the Cube. 10th year John of covering Veum World This is 29 teens version John for John Wall's Got to have inside the Moscone Center. We're joined now by Varun Chabrol It was the vice president of marketing at Delhi M. C. Good to see you today. >> Thanks for having me. >> How's your week been? So far? >> It's been amazing. How can you don't get excited? All the innovation we're seeing this week >> we'll hear about some big announcements. Do you guys have made? And Moon Young Man Azzedine, who is the vice president of product marketing that for cloud security and works based solutions at Veum wear when you're good to see you. >> Good to see you again. You, By >> the way, you might be the busiest guy here. Yesterday, when you came into the set, you were coming in. Just spoken to 1300 people in a standing room only session You coming out? 500 folks, How many sessions have you done? The seven. So >> you don't count the the one on one with the analyst. And, uh, you know, the customers and partners and press. And tomorrow actually host ah 140 press media analyst on campus in Palo Alto from Asia Pacific because they float all the way from Asia >> plus 140. Yeah, it's a piece of cake. >> Yeah, hose them from 10 to 4. So, I mean, >> you're always smiling >> knowing that this is a pretty wide audience to whom you've been speaking. But just generally, what are you if there's a common thread at all about the kinds of questions that people are coming to you with, or or the concerns or maybe just the things they want to talk about being inspired. But what they're hearing here at the show, >> Okay. Now, according to two aspects of it, one obviously from analysts themselves, you know, they are actually have been very complimentary about the way we've taken our approach. I'm not sure if you could have paid attention. In the last couple of years, we've been talking especially the cloud side, the narrative, to be very much about use cases, solving problems. You know the key? No, we talked about hate my grade modernize. It wasn't about Hey, I've got the next big product here with all these features and capabilities. You do this and that. So we're gonna shifted out narrative. And it was very, you know, the the analyst across the boat. You know, we've been seeing an appreciative of the fact that you actually changing a narrative to be re compelling and we're gonna reflected. And we have some things here like Cloud City, where it's not a standard demo boot. It's a it's ah, Customers walk in and they touch and feel and see which we did it, Adele technology will, too. It's like, What's your business? Probably going through these applications. I'm sitting. I don't know if I should be modernizing them or should be migrating into Amazon. A ridge or so. So you know that narrative the analysts are appreciative off, and that reflects into the customer conversations I've been having in the briefings, like one on one with customers. They're really kind of lost us. D'oh! Hey, I've I'm working in this environment. There's a lot of pressure for me. Thio modernize my applications or go adopt my cloud. First strategy is where do I start? Where do I go? It's like, you know, there's a big pressure, so they just want clarity. I think in the end, everything we're gonna we're doing in our study that comes out obviously the buzzword for this weird world. It stanza, right? And, you know, >> we've won the product announcements was >> actually Brandon can Oh, yeah. Branding announcement, to be honest is yeah, because we're trying to bring together, as you know, in Tansy has landed in Bill Run Manage billed as in you know how our intent to acquire Pivotal Already acquired Big Tommy. How all our different acquisitions with different brand names are coming together to establish our bills portfolio again. The sphere. Everybody knows the sphere Project Pacific P ks. All of those create a good run time, environment and manageability like Adi manage with assets from ve Franta gain morbid Nami and you know it. So this multiple brands that are coming into this package off Iran. So we had a creative tan Xue too, you know, put forward statement together that yes is going to be 78 different brands coming into this, but going forward to stand. >> So so that's a great strategy on De Liam Seaside on Del Technology. Michael Dell was in here and I asked him. I said he could have been number one in everything you could. Let's talk about I'm number one in servers again. You kind of get on HP, little baby. But those air peace parts now. So we've got the cloud game. It's bringing despair it at parts together kind and making it coherent from a positioning standpoint and understandable and deployable. So you guys are going down there. That's your cloud strategy. Take a minute to explain that. >> Yeah, absolutely, John. So So what? What we've been doing. We announced this at Del Technologies will this year. But, you know, in the cloud infrastructure space, we're working very closely with the anywhere too tightly integrate our hardware solutions with their their cloud software. And we think that by combining these two in a tightly integrated joined engineer, jointly engineered solutions coupled with the service, is that you know, both of'em were and l e m c bring the customers we think we have. We're giving customers are very consistent experience both with their own premises, infrastructure with public cloud as well as with the edge cloud. And that's really what we're trying to do. That's what we've been building upon and uniting the announcements this week. You know, just just hopefully show customers that the sky's the limit, whether it's not just your infrastructure management. Also app development. Managing your APS both traditional and and cloud native. It's all here for And >> what's the big takeaway free from your standpoint that you'd like people to know about what's going on? Adele the emcee for the VM. Where relation. What's the big top item? >> Yeah, there's there's there's just so much good Doctor Wait forever drank the town about. If someone rises >> way, only have two hours >> time work. The most important thing that people should should know about it, >> you know, both deli M. C and V. M. R. I think, are very, very customer driven companies that we respond to customer feedback and we try to respond to them very fast. That's been true to our respective lifetimes and what we've done in the so that I think there's two broad areas of collaboration. One is in the cloud space, which is all about, you know, making sure that the the innovation that GM is bringing the market, we're providing that in a toy tightly integrated infrastructure solution. Right. So we announced from a deli in seaside support for Vienna, where p ks being deployed automatically on Vieques trail using VCF return. Our customers can you know, a lot of teams were telling us we have our developers and turning developers banging slash knocking on the door, saying we need to build a cloud. Native applications. You need to give us an environment that we can use. And you know, if if all righty, if these IittIe teams don't turn around and give them something relatively quickly Well, guess what? The developers will go somewhere else, right? Yeah, exactly. So And if you look at the kubernetes environment today, if you really look look at what the work that's required to set up kubernetes and ready infrastructure. So a lot of scripting a lot of manual, you know, work command line interface is testing stuff. And what what? V m r p k s does. And you know what times you will do as well is really makes it easy when we've taken that with the magic of the American Foundation sitting on top of the exhale to make it super easy for our customers to be able to deploy kubernetes ready infrastructure and then have it be ready for scale, right? And then the important thing here also is this is the same infrastructure of the expelling bcf that our customers are using for traditional applications as well, right? Trying to reduce that complexity. Give them the one platform. So this cloud, you know, we had we were doing the same integration on just with R A C I platform, but also with our best to breach storage or we're not working with the C f. And then we're also making investments on data protection like it's so important to be able to manage your data in this multi cloud world. We have applications sitting everywhere, data. We all know that it is a crown jewel. So >> it's really a king validating from the Vienna a point of view. How that works right is is about applications is about the infrastructure, and it's about the operation and it really kind of together as we talk about Han Xue p. K s is giving our customers that Chuy's off. You pick Cuban eighties, you know, environments, application choice. >> Um, >> it took us. Actually, we didn't We didn't arrive it in that order. Wait. Did it. In the outer off Infrastructure Plot Foundation is a critical piece of the joint engineering. But being aware and the Della Bella Technologies is really from aviary perspective. It took Locke Foundation, and that's the stack that runs in every public cloud. So, you know AWS as your G C P 4000 plus, you know, cloud provider partners. But Flat Foundation is a platform that was validated on. They'll take hardware and you know, that's the package. But now, as you see, we're lighting that it's same infrastructure up for traditional and culminated applications. >> I think the app sides important to point out, because if you could ve m wears heritage, you look at Dale's heritage. You had abs that ran on PCs absent, ran on servers, client server. And if you look at the fertilization that wasn't under the covers, apt an innovation that didn't require code changes. So that's the DNA that you guys have. Now, when you think about like cloud to point out which we've been riffing on that concept that's basically enterprise cloud mean donut. Hybrid cloud applications are gonna drive. The value on our premises is that they're going to be customer requirements that traditionally wouldn't have fit in the product. Marketing, management, featureless customs. Gonna define what they want. They'll build it, and then they'll dictate to the infrastructure to make it run. What? We can't do that yet. It'll be, Yes, we cannot be enabled to be dynamics. This is a a new cloud. 2.0, feature. This changes the complete game on suppliers >> completely agree. You know to your point, because, you know, you bring it thio back toward civilization. We've been going higher up the stack on So Day zero virtualization infrastructure will virtual eyes. So the line off abstraction has just been climbing from hardware retort realization next to like, you know, Pat platform of the service, and you kind of were working up our way down infrastructure. Now that base infrastructure platform looks like plants. Right? >> And there were times out a little bit over here. On the upside, you meet in the middle of >> it in the middle >> that is Hello, >> absolutely so ap and at middle wears shrinking down this way. Infrastructures. You know that the cloud incriminating stride in the middle to say, Well, that's a bit of, you know, infrastructure is a Kodak and pull. He's a bit of a AP AP eyes I can can I draw from And that's kind of nice future middleware. But our dad, I >> mean, I think applications air in charge, right? I mean, that's not sure That's the dynamic. That's the way it should be. But it never was that way before is basically the infrastructure was your gating factor. The network exact cloud two points Network security data. Yes, Dev Ops. A true Dev Ops Devane, Ops, Infrastructures Code. >> The only point I wanted to add is the reason the emphasis on abscess change acts in the past. Used to be a business support system after today is business. >> Yeah, I mean, it's >> really or you're you're gonna live or die based on the digital services you provide your customers. The other thing I was going to say about cloud 2.0, is that it's also becoming increasingly clear when we Dr customers that, um, customers are realizing Cloud is not a place right. There was this kind of cloud. One point it was okay. Big honking data centers, hyper skaters will be found now is that customers have gone through that process of and there's a lot more maturity in terms of understanding. What is good, better running on premises. What is what's better running in public Cloud? There's a place for both of them and that, um, and the cloud is actually the automation, the service delivery. It's Maurin operation and a way of being almost than a place. >> And what is it? Well, what does it do for you all? Then, in terms of challenge, especially at your teams, because you talk about all this customization, you're allowing the application to almost drive. You know, you're changing places in terms of who's the power of the relationship? Yes. Oh, me, yeah, How what? What does that do for you? Oh, in terms of how you approach that, how you change of mindset and how you change what you deliver? >> I think John, it's the way I think about it is that both daily emcee in Vienna, or any technology provider that's worth their salt is in the business of building platforms. Right? And platforms are essentially extensible. They're really they really provide a foundation that other people can innovate on top of it. And that's how I think you handled the customers issue. If one thing I think we can all agree on is that I t has always taught us there's no one size fits. All right? Right. So I think providing choice along every single dimension is super important for our >> customers. Yeah, I think that platform thing is a huge point. And I was gonna ask that question before John got jumped in because one of the things that you just brought up was platform is you guys have to build an enabling platform. One as suppliers. Okay, The successful cloud to point out cos are ones that are innovating in weird areas. Monitoring, for instance, they who will have thought that monitoring now observe ability would be such a massive, lucrative sector four. I pose M and A Why? Because it's data. It's instrumentation. This is operating system kind of thinking here is like network. So thinking like a platform on the supplier size one, the customers got to start thinking like a platform because their stakeholders air their internal developers or a P I shipping to suppliers. This is new for enterprises. This is news requires full hybrid capability. This requires date at the center of the value proposition. >> That's again the biggest value is business and I tr coming together on the area of applications and data. Yeah, that's starting up giving because the successful businesses are the ones who leveraged. Those guys have failed in the future, or the ones who don't pay attention to how critical applications are to the business logic and how critical data is to be able to mine and get the behavioral analytics to get ahead. And >> now the challenge in all this. But I'm learning and covering some of the public sector activity from the C I. A contract Jedi with Amazon to we had Raytheon Her here earlier is another customer example with another client is that procurement? And how they do business is not just a technical thing. There's like all this old legacy, things like, How do you procure technology, who you hire her and we hire developers? We build our own stack, so there's a lot of things going on. >> Yes, and you know, it's really interesting on the even on the procurement front, how our customers experience with Cloud has changed expectations, right, And that's really what we're doing with the McLaren DMC is what customers told us is, Hey, I love the agility of the cloud portal based access. Easy procurement. I love just being able to click a button and not have to navigate all this complexity. I need that for my own premises infrastructure. Imagine FRA structure. And that's, you know, in an example, while all of these dynamics are really all converging, >> well, if you can create abstraction, layer on a level of complexity and make things easy, simple and affordable, that's good business. Model >> one of our customers without taking the name right. The massive retailer you know they're spinning up, um, the retail outlets like crazy. They measure success in This was one truck roll, so they wanna have the entire infrastructure come into stand up one of the retail outlets in one truck roll. When everything comes in one button push that everything gets in a provision and up together. >> So that means I gotta have full software instrumentation automation Got intelligence. This is kind of where cloud 2.0, will lead us all >> likely. And that's expectation now that they go so fast and deploying this one Truck roll Hardware's there. Switch it on from the cloud it stood up and they're in operation 24 hours. >> Well, guys, we're going to get you on our power panels in our Palace of studio on this topic cloudy. But it's gonna be very aggressive and controversial topic because it's going to challenge the status quo. And that's really what this we're talking about >> that's in our DNA. >> And the good news is that that's more time with John. >> So as we before, we say so long, we've talked about clients. We talked about the folks you bet here. We talked about the presentation on this thing and what they're all getting out of it. What are you getting out of this? I mean, what are your takeaways? As you had back to your respective work orders, you get first. Okay? >> I think for me the biggest takeaway is just how incredibly vibrant via more user communities. I mean, it is unlike anything else I've seen before and now with the things like Project Pacific. I just feel like it's It's an opportunity for this community to be able to take the skills they have right now and actually go into this brave new world of containers with so much help forces having to do this all by yourself. Which means it's gonna be, you know, if you think about how largest community is, think about how much innovation this will spore in the container space and because of that in the application space and then because of that in business is I mean, this is a It just feels like a tipping point for me >> to me. Sure, I got high fives from every tech geek, you know, when we came out, you know, I also on our technical advisory boats for the company that these are the hot core geeks who were followed and you know us to the, you know, these were the fans and they were like, you know, they always kind of like if you walk out of them and you talk to them and they, uh how did it work? Because they my bar, you have a very high bar. They cut through all your marketing messaging. They go right to the hay. Is there meet in this And the high fives? I got the hajj. I got out. This is like, guys, you're nailing it. That's enough to tell me that a This is, like, 10 years ago. Yeah, that body. It's like you're so busy. I'm still smiling because the energy is I >> can't give you a hug. Give me a high five. Right. Good work, gentlemen. Thanks for the time. Always, he's still smiling to >> get you to a step. >> Good deal. Thanks for being with us. Thank you. Live on the Cube. You're watching our coverage in world 2019. Where? San Francisco. Back with more. Right after this.

>> live from Miami Beach, Florida It's the que covering demon 2019. Brought to you, by the way. >> Welcome back to Miami. Everybody watching the Cube, The leader in live tech coverage. This is Day two of the mon 2019 3 cubes. Third year at V mon, We did New Orleans. We did Chicago last year. Course here at the Fountain Blue in Miami. Great venue for an event like this. I'm Dave a lot. It was my co host, Peter Burroughs. Abba Dabbas. Eye is Adi is here. He's the head of a Charles Russell speech. Liza London based law firm. How about great. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Thankyou. So you tell us about this judge. Interesting name. Charles Russell. Speech lease. It was a merger of two firms, Right. Tell us how it all came about. >> Back in 2,014 Charles, loss of species performed for a merger between two different companies. Charles docile and speaks Lee Burcham from a 90 perspective. That was very interesting for the two departments coming together s So we have a limited time period where we had to merge these two companies Two different systems different data centers, different data sets. So it was formed by emerging back in 2,014 for five years on way here today >> that we see this a lot, you know, Emanate goes down. The acquiring company of this sounds like it was a merger. You know, they sort of battle. Okay, who's going toe? Really? Which framework is going to win? Because I'm sure had that conversation. But so to take us through that merger, what it entailed what? What the scenario looked like and how you plan for it. Sure. >> So I was part of the Charles. Also legacy Charles Russell team on, then obviously speaks about. Some had their own team as well. So initially, when we first found out about the merger, it was essential for the two teams to get together to work out. Okay, What systems? You have free mail. What systems you have for document management system playing trump cards. Which is who's got the best system and which way do we wantto move forward? A little. >> Ah, >> so but being a law firm, most law firms around the world and in the UK especially used the same types of software so essentially that from that perspective it was It was it was quite simple. But then way had to work out. How do we How do we go forward with this? Because two different headquarters in the London area. Which office do we move into? Sort of logistics around that. Can we fit in pre merger? It was six. Charles Lawson had sickle. Roughly 600 people, especially birds, had roughly 500 people. So pretty comparable. Yeah, yeah. So working out space logistics was was an issues >> making that even even more complicated, right? Yeah. >> One of the things that's interesting about a law firm, like versus a traditional manufacturer or AW financial services firm that has a lot of very fast right writing systems and have to scale on those lines is a law firms feature very complex dogs, very complex in from out of files, a lot of files that are written. But at the same time, you have to be repurposed to a lot of different work flows very sensitive to external contingent regulatory change. And so you have all of that happening, especially, I mean, two years ago from now on MySpace steak, and it was you're getting into brexit stuff, too, so that also had to be a source of uncertainty. So how has it been combining external regulatory issues the way that technology is being used in law firms and some of the new work clothes that you guys trying to support? And then adding, On top of that, the complexity of bringing these two firm GPR >> GPO itself was It was a year old project for us on. Obviously, we've got offices. The Middle East, but obviously is in the Far East on DH in Central Europe has well, so data logistics or where it sits, is an issue for us as well. So GDP, ours being a big project for us in terms of the merger itself. It was it was very, very difficult for the two I T departments to come together on actually work out. How how do we go to one unified systems? Essentially one doctor man, just in one email system. All of that took a lot of plan in law project management on essentially within the legal press itself. We got doubted in the time frames that we had that we can achieve it on within. I think It was 18 month period. We had merged order, different systems and various offices because speech the Bertram and Time is what I had. Offices in Zurich and Geneva were to merge with different offices together as well. So it was. It was a big, big task for the i T department on the firm itself. >> They're very tight migration deadlines. And and as you started to approach those deadlines you had to worry about, Okay, When we're going to cut over, how do we avoid downtime? How do we make sure that we don't? You know, I have bad data, data, corruption and the like. So how did you plan for that? And how did it go? >> So wait, we're here. C'mon on DH. Veen was It was it was a big part of our migration process. So where we had two different parts of the business Different storage systems, Different actualization system's way used to mean a CZ. The middleman basically, to my great data, from one day to center to another, using swink it. So where there was a large amount of terabytes and terabytes, amount of data way had swing kit available to us using team were able to be to be essentially a love the environments into the swing care and then bring them over to the other side of the business. And vain was essentially part on on top of that, making sure that the data that we were coming that will bring in a cross is true and not corrupt on DH, that using some of their technology is sure backups and stuff like that really, really was essential to, you know, do migration going well >> And was was Wien installed and both organizations at the time? Or was that something that you had to sort of redeploy? >> And yeah, So Legacy Charles also had way was actually myself going back probably eight years ago. Version For a time, I think team had 20,000 customers. So to here >> there were version 10 now 33 150 >> 1,001,000, 4,000 month. >> That makes me proud that we invested in vain when we did good car. So yeah, it was It was a good call from us, and essentially three other side of the business did not have. But then we just wait. Expanded our Venus State to look at both sides and then bring him across on. And then, ever since then, we've grown our vamos state across the world, across all of officers. So >> So how did you do that? So that was that was another migration that had to occur. And did you? You kind of do those simultaneously. Did you do the theme of migration first, and then bring the two systems together? >> Do you seem to do Stouffer special sauce in the migration? >> Yeah. So Veen was essentially a tool that we used to my great data sensors from one data center to another using their backup technology using their replication technology, we were able to replicate all of one side's virtual machines to the other. And then that gave us that gave us the flexibility as well. When when we had the limited down time periods that we've had, they give us the flexibility to actually Circe the business is during these particular ours. We're not gonna be able to You're not gonna have access to these systems because we're going to bring up systems from point A to point B. So veen was essential to them if >> you had to do it over again. If he had a mulligan, what would you have done differently? What what advice might you give to somebody who's trying to go through a similar migration? >> I would say Give your partners and lawyers more realistic time. Pray the time frame that we would get. >> Or don't let them give you an unrealistic time for him. >> Exactly. Yeah, so says ensured that the amount of work it's it's not just day to itself. You know, we're talking network and we're talking security. We're talking, you know, to to similar sized companies coming together. We were very, very limited time frame, consolidating all of their systems into one which is essential for the two parts of the business to collaborate together because, you know, way could have taken our time. We could have got to take this free four years a CE, far as we're concerned. But the fact that we did do it in such a quick time for him and that business to parts of the business from Day one can collaborate much better with each other. So >> we talked a lot about digital business transformation and you know, our approach or our observations on the digital business transformations, the process by which you altar and change your firm to re institutionalize the work. Change your game. Tomato Grover. All governments model as you use data as an asset, so that's affecting every firm everywhere. How's it affecting a law firm and you know your law from specifically on? How is that going to change your stance in your approach to data protection >> Data is incredibly important to unlawful. A zit is to most most organizations, but in terms of, you know, one of one of the things that's quite important in terms of law firms. We work with the financial institutions, so we held information by that. We hold personal data way hold all times of information. Charles Oscar speech leads works with Aware is of law apart from Kunal. So the areas of law that they worked with his vast in terms of the amount of data that we hold and essentially I mean, for us data is the most important thing that runs the firm and having visibility tow our data. How do we How do we work that data? How do we then market based on the data that we have? How do we market ourselves from that data. You know, there might be one area the business that's dealing with a family issue, family law. But then, you know that that could correspond with the litigation issue. You know, how do we work that data? To be to be an advancing to our businesses is extremely important. For >> what? What do you think of the announcements this week? I'm kind of curious. I was liketo ask the practitioners of what they think about. You know what was announced. You had, uh, well, you had the ve made $1,000,000,000. That's kind of fun and cool, but But you had the with the program, which was kind of interesting. The whole ap I look the beam availability orchestrator, where they're really talking about recovering from backups as a host that needed to recover from, you know, a replicated instance. You know, some of the automated testing stuff was kind of interesting. They talked about dynamic documentation, things you saw this week that you'll actually go back and say, Hey, I can apply that to solve a problem. Sure. >> So, essentially, I think I've been a really good question is very relevant to us many of not just ourselves law firm but many of the other law firms around the world are now looking at cloud based services now for us. I mean, this was a big thing five years ago way you know, everyone was talking about public clouds. Us. We're now we're now looking clouds and where basically, we've bean pushed by the vendors themselves to go towards cloudlike Citrix, for example. Their licensing model was based around their services. So is Microsoft in Mike's off? You don't you don't really have, you know, exchange anymore. Within premises you have off 365 A lot of the SAS applications are moving toward the cloud on DH. What wrote me? I had to say doing the keynote in regards to act, too. And how team are trying to be the visionaries in terms of look at that cloud is their next big thing for the next 10 years, offering often a crucial and for businesses like ours who have limited exposure to cloud technologies limited understanding, essentially having a tool that could migrate from one cloud to another. It's fantastic, you know, we've offered, you know I've spoken to, obviously are United directors around the other law firms where I wanted to have gone to the public cloud. But they don't know how to come back in and having a tall that essentially gives you that flexibility to bring it back in house to go form a ws to zoo. Or if there's a particular assess application, for example, that piers better with a W s. But you've got your other application that piers with that particular application is your Why would you want to have in the door? You'll probably want to move into a W eso for us, I think. What? The message coming out of'em on this year has bean really, really helpful for us. >> So So when you started with theme, they had it said 20,000 custom You like the 20001st customer on DIT was coincided with the virtual ization, you know, craze. Do you feel like the team knowing what you know about them, you have a lot of experience with them Consort of Replicate that success in this town intendant and in Act two, >> I think when I first looked at them, Wow, this is really, really simple. It's a bit like an iPhone. You know you given iPhone to your grandmother or to your children, and they have to play with it. And I see the beam as an intuitive piece of software that easy fighting professionals to get on with it, as their slogan said a few years ago. It just works. It does just work. Wear were great advocates of him. It's worked wonders for us. We've acquired smaller businesses using we've managed companies using and when I see you know, when you go to the sessions and you see the intelligence behind their thinking, I think going back to your question I think Wei si oui, si, vamos a strategic partner for us when we see their vision and we believe in their vision, and I think what they're doing in terms of what they working on next few years, I think we're well favor there, and I think, you know, essentially, that's where the most of their business is going to come from, >> where you sit down with, you know, rat mayor over over vodka and he says, Tell me the one thing I could do to make your life you know, easier, better you can't say cut prices s a hellhole. But what would you advise him to >> make my life better >> other than Jim instead of >> yeah, eyes that >> would make you crazy. >> So in terms of a zoo, a technology, >> your business relationship or something, she'd like to see them do that would. I >> think in terms of mergers and acquiring companies, seen license rentals will be a good thing. I know, I know. They give you a valuation license keys, and that's something that you can use. So, for example, if we were to acquire a company that has hundreds of servers and PM's having license rentals for a period of time, able >> to spin it up and spin it down actually allowed >> Exactly. Yeah, that would be an advantage. I think in terms of what you know what they're doing in the marketplace, and a lot of law firms use him. I feel I can't do any more than they are doing now. And in all the years that we've used to be my fingers on eight years now, but we've only had one serious problem, and the way they got that problem, you know the way, the way they communicated to reverse the way they a lot of different teams across the the Europe and the US go involved. I think, you know, in terms of service, in terms of software, in terms of what they what they do for us. I don't think there's anything more to add. Teoh. Right? Maia's vision. >> That's great for their custom of it. Well, thanks so much for coming on. The Cube is not heavy. Really? Thank you very much. You're welcome to keep it right there, buddy Peter, and I'll be back with our next guests right after this short break. We're live from Miami at the front of Blue Hotel. You're watching the Cube from Vienna on 2019 right back.

>> Announcer: From the computer history museum, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's The Cube. Covering food IT, Fork to Farm. Brought to you by Western Digital. >> Hey, welcome back to The Cube. From the food IT event, From Fork to Farm, yep, you heard that right, Fork to Farm. I'm Lisa Martin. Really excited to be joined by my next guests who are influencing the food chain with Big Data, Cloud, IoT and Blockchain in some very, very interesting ways. We have Rob O'Reilly, senior member and technical staff of Analog Devices. Welcome. >> Thank you. >> And we have Raja Ramachandran, the founder and CEO of Ripe.io. Welcome. >> Thank you Lisa. >> So I made that joke about the Fork to Farm because we think so often how trendy it is, farm to table, farm to mouth. And this has been a really interesting event for us to talk with so many different people and companies across the food chain that we often, I think, take for granted. So Rob, wanted to kind of start with you. Analog Devices has been around for 50 years. You serve a lot of markets. So how is, and maybe kind of tell me sort of the genesis, and I know you were involved in this, of Analog Devices evolving to start using Cloud, Big Data, IoT in the food and agriculture space. What was the opportunity that you saw light bulb moment? >> Yup. It's an interesting story. We started with a piece of technology, a sensor that we can connect. I was looking of an app to apply, 'cause it was a full sensor to the Cloud strategy I was working on. And through some conference attendees that I had met and from a fellow who's now our partner, we kind of put together a strategy of "Well we've got the sensor to the Cloud, "where would we apply this?" And we decided though a little bit of banter, tomatoes. And most of it was because, in New England specifically, there's a lot of, there's 7,000 farms in Massachusetts. >> Lisa: Wow. >> Not all of them produce tomatoes, but a lot of them do. So it was like having a test bed right in our backyard. And from that point it's grown to what it is now. >> And I hear that you don't like tomatoes. >> I really don't like tomatoes. >> Lisa: What about heirloom tomatoes? >> I don't like any tomatoes. >> Lisa: Mozzarella, little basil, no? >> No, no. (laughs) I don't mind pasta sauce so much, but that's just because it's all salt. >> Lisa: That's true. >> And sugar. But no, and I've managed to get through this entire project without anybody forcing me to eat a tomato, so. >> That's good, they're respectful. >> I'm proud of that. >> So I was joking earlier, we cover a lot of events across enterprise innovation, and we were at a Hadoop Dataworks events a couple weeks ago and one of the guests was talking about Big Data and how it's influencing shipping, and how shipping companies are leveraging Big Data to determine how often they should clean the ships to remove barnacles 'cause it slows them down. So the funny thing that popped into my mind from that show is, barnacles and Big Data? Never thought that. Today, the wow factor for me, the internet of tomatoes. What is the internet of tomatoes? >> The problem statement when we started was "Why do tomatoes taste like cardboard?" >> Lisa: He really doesn't like tomatoes! (laughs) >> And, you know, in order to go dig into that was let's collect data. So there's a variety of methods that we use to collect the data. We had to create all of this on our own, so we created our own apps for the phones, our own matchups for the web, our own gateways. We built our hardware, we 3-D printed all the housings, and two of us just went off and started to deploy so we could collect data. The second half of it was, "well, what is in the tomato? "and why does it taste the way it does?" So we started doing some chemistry analysis. So a bunch of refractometers and other instruments so we can see what the sugar levels were, what the acid levels were. We infused ourselves into the Boston Tomato Contest, which they have annually. So we showed up, we looked like the Rolling Stones. We showed up with cases of, trap cases of equipment. It took us about 11 and a half hours to test 113, I think it was, tomatoes, and then we compared those to the chefs' scorecards. And in the chef's scorecard, there wasn't just a taste profile, there was the looks and everything else. Well I found a few markers between what the chef's profile said was a good tasting tomato and what the chemistry said. So a year later we showed up with our optical solution and we managed to test 450 tomatoes. >> Wow. >> About 100 of those go to the slicing table, so we had information on 100 of them and we did the same thing. So it got to the point to where we at least had that reconciliation of "what's the farmer doing "and how does it taste?" And by bringing Raja and his group in, we're bringing a lot more of other Big Data, if you will. Other weather data, aerial drone data, you know, anything we could find in a telematic range that would affect the processing or whatever of the tomato. So that in a nutshell is the internet of tomatoes. >> And is this something that, you know, being able to aggregate Big Data from a variety of sources, something that you're planning to then take to, I heard you earlier in the talk, talking about kind of at the relationship building stage. Is this a dialogue that you're having yet with farms? You mentioned 7,000 farms in Massachusets. What's that kind of conversation like? >> Well that's a very interesting dynamic and I think, you know, that data point for the industry is you better go talk to the farmer. It's really been interesting, the hesitation from a farmer to talk to a semiconductor company was odd. But I wasn't John Deer, I wasn't Monsanto, so they were a little more open. And they understand, a lot of these farmers that I'm dealing with now are generational, you know they're fifth, sixth generation. They really haven't made significant change on their farm in 100 years. >> Probably nor do they have a lot of data that's automated, right? There's probably a lot of things that are in Excel. >> And a lot of it is, I mean beyond their first level of contact, say with a seed or a pesticide manufacturer, They have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world. Unlike, you know, a lot of the big, large farms that we see. But at the smaller region, they're regional. And we've still have Hatfield-McCoy type things going on in New England, where families don't talk to each other, they don't share information. So through one of our work groups, we actually invited two of them, and I felt like match maker. We were trying to just get these two to talk. And they did, and they both realized that they were spending way too much money on fertilizer, and they were both over watering. So, it's still Hatfield and McCoys but at least I think they wink at each other every once in a while. >> Right, I love that you bought that up. That was something that was talked about a number of times today is the lack of collaboration maybe that's still in the sort of competitive stage. So Raja, talk to us about Ripe.io. First of all, I think the name is fantastic, but Blockchain and food. What's the synergy? And what opportunity did you see coming from the financial services industry? >> So, you know one of the key points about what we felt brings all this together is creating a web of trust. And so in financial markets, insurance markets, healthcare markets, you know big institutional regulated markets, there's a lot of regulations that really bind together that notion of trust, because you have a way in which you could effectively call out foul. Now, so there's a center of gravity in each of those industries, whether it's a central bank, you know or a state regulator insurance, so the government in healthcare. Here, there's not. It's disparate. It's completely fragmented, yet somehow magically we all get food everyday, ane we're not dead you know. So from that perspective we just marvel at the fact that you're there. So, bringing Blockchain was a way to basically talk to the farmer, talk to the distributor, talk to the buyer, the producer, and all these different constituents, including certifiers, USDA, whomever it might be. And then also even health to health companies, right, so that you can relate it. So the idea is to basically take all of these desperate sets of data, because they don't necessarily collaborate in full, capture it in the way that we're working with ADI so that you can create a real story about where that food came from, how is it curated, how did it get transported, what's in it, you know, do I get it on time, is it ripe, is it tasty and so on, right? And so we looked at Blockchain as a technology, an enabling technology that quickly captures the data, allows each to preserve its own security about it, and then combine it so that you can achieve real outcomes. So you can automate things like, were you sustainable? Were you of quality? Did you meet these taste factors? Was it certified? That's what excited us. We though, this is a perfect place because you've got to feed 9,000,000,000 people and no one trusts their food, you know? >> Lisa: Right. >> So we felt this would be an excellent opportunity to deploy Blockchain. >> And it's interesting that you know, the transparency is one of the things that we hear from the consumers, you know. We want all these things. We want hormone free, cage free, et cetera. We want organic, we want to make sure it is organic, but we also want that transparency. I'm curious since you are talking to the farmers, the distributors and the consumers, what were some of the different requirements coming from each, and how do you blend that to really have that visibility or that traceability from seed to consumption? >> And it's a good point right, because there's all these competing factors where farmers want certain information done, they don't want the price to go to zero because it's so commoditized. The distributor, not entirely sure if they want anybody to know what they do is if they deliver it, they've done their job. The aggregator, a grocery store, a restaurant or whomever, are really feeling the pinch of demographic changes. Not only in America, but globally, you know about this notion that "I need to know more about my food". Millennials are doing it, look at Amazon and Whole Foods. >> Lisa: Yup. >> That is a tipping point of like where this is all going to go. So for us, what Blockchain does allows for each of those drivers to remain clean. And so in essence, what you can do is you take something called smart contracts, not a great word but basically these are codes in which you've got a checklist or if-then statements that you can say, "What does the farmer want?" "What is the distributor doing to get something there?" And of course the buyer. And so in that sense, we've talked a lot about a scorecard or this notion that you can basically highlight and show all of these different values, so that if the consumer is looking for, you know, I definitely want this in my lettuce, in my beets, in whatever it is, and I need to make this type of salad, how acidic should my tomatoes be? Well that's hard to count, like combine all that information. Since we're capturing that data set and validating it to make sure that they're true, then you actually enable that trust for that consumer. So the consumer may want a lot of information, the issue is will they pay for it? There's some evidence that they will. The second part is, you know, does the grocer have the ability to manage wide varietals in their shelf space, and so on. All the techniques that a grocer would go through, yet they want a clean supply chain. >> Lisa: Right. >> So you know, so like what're we're saying is that this is definitely not easy. And so we're taking it where the influencer of the entire chain is able to help drive it, in the meanwhile we're trying to help create a farmer community that creates a level of trust. Bind those together, we believe Blockchain and a lot of the technology that ADI is deploying helps achieve that. >> And it sounds like from a technology perspective, you're leveraging Blockchain, Big Data, aggregating that to help farmers, even consumers, grocers, retailers, become more data-driven businesses. >> Oh absolutely. I mean in one instance we've got, you know a customer that they're learning how Blockchain can be used to open up their markets and improve their existing customer service. So what they have are like data sets, you know Rob would definitely understand this, but basically you have data set on like what's best for apples, pears, avocados to ripen, you know. Now, they know it in their heads, right? But the issue is, they don't know when there's conditions that change. The grocery store says I want Braeburn apples to be 20% more crisper, well they actually have the answer but they don't know how to tie all that together. >> Lisa: Right. >> So this data-driven capability exposes automation, so that you can fulfill on that. Create new markets, 'cause if your growers don't have it you can go find it from elsewhere. And for the consumer, you're going to deliver that component on time. And so in that sense, you know these things are revealed as ways to, not only like lower cost you know, because in the end Blockchain has this sort of notion that it lowers costs. Like any technology, if you insert it, it typically adds costs. And I'm not saying that our Blockchain does, but the greater value is branding, preserving it, you know. A better economic consequence about it, a better customer satisfaction because I now have knowledge in transparency. >> Lisa: Right. >> So you can't value these things right, because I'm a millennial like all of a sudden I got all my information, well how did you value it? I just paid $60 at Whole Foods, or is it something else? >> Lisa: Right. >> So we think that there's whole new economic revitalization about the entire farming system and the food nag system, because if you show the transparency, you've got something. >> That's so interesting. Last question, and we're almost out of time, Rob you mentioned a lot of small farms in Massachusets. Where are those small farms in terms of readiness to look at technologies and the influence of Big Data? Is it still fairly early in those discussions, or is your market more the larger farms that ... >> I said it earlier, we're at the beginning of the beginning. I was actually shocked, excuse me, when I went out and started talking to them. I was under some assumption that a lot of this was already going on. And it turns out it's not, certainly at that level. So we were like new to these guys, and the fact that we had a technology that would help them was unique to them. The issue was, well how do you communicate with them? How would you sell that? What's the distribution channel? So through a lot of the workshops that we do with the farmers we ask the question, "If their is new technology and you want to go get it, "what do you do?" They google it. I said, "Okay, that's probably not the answer "I was looking for." (laughs) But no, the supporting infrastructure, the rest of the ecosystem they need to take advantage just isn't there yet. So a lot of that I think is slow for the adoption, but it's also kind of helped us because we're working on technologies. You know, timing is everything. So the fact that we've had time to catch up to what we thought was really needed, and then learned more from the farmer, well no, no this is really what they want. So we've been able to iterate. You know, we're a very small team. We've been able to fail miserably many, many times. But the good news is, when we're successful that's all people see. And the farmers are starting to see that, that hey, we're getting actionable data. You're telling me things that I kind of knew, 'cause they fly by the seat of their pants a lot. >> They want it validated, verified. >> Oh yeah, they're very frugal. >> Trustworthy, as you said Raja. >> There's a big push back to spend any money on anything at a farm. That's just the way it is, it's not anything unique. So when you show up now with some technology that could help them, they just want to make sure that you're spot on, you can predict what it is, and when they hand me the money they can start planning on the return on their investment. >> Well gentlemen, we want to thank you so much for sharing your insights, Blockchain of food, what ADI is doing in their 50th year. Sounds like the beginning is very exciting and we wish you the best of luck. I'm not going to hold my breath that you're going to like tomatoes but, you know. (laughs) We wish you the best of luck and enjoy the rest of today. We want to thank you for watching The Cube at the Food IT event, From Fork to Farm. I'm Lisa Martin, thanks for watching. (upbeat pop music)