>>Welcome back everyone to the cubes coverage of VM wear Explorer, 2022 formerly VM world. The Cube's 12th year covering the annual conference. I'm Jennifer Daveon. We got Jason Bloomberg here. Who's a Silicon angle contributor guest author, president of inte analyst firm. Great to see you, Jason. Thanks for coming on the queue. >>Yeah, it's great to be here. Thanks a lot. >>And thanks for contributing to Silicon angle. We really appreciate your articles and, and so does the audience, so thanks for that. >>Very good. We're happy >>To help. All right. So I gotta ask you, okay. We've been here on the desk. We haven't had a chance to really scour the landscape here at Moscone. What's going, what's your take on what's going on with VMware Explorer, not world. Yeah. Gotta see the name change. You got the overhang of the, the cloud Broadcom, which from us, it seems like it's energized people like, like shocked to the system something's gonna happen. What's your take. >>Yeah, something's definitely going to happen. Well, I've been struggling with VMware's messaging, you know, how they're messaging to the market. They seem to be downplaying cloud native computing in favor of multi-cloud, which is really quite different from the Tansu centric messaging from a year or two ago. So Tansu is still obviously part of the story, but it's really, they're relegating the cloud native story to an architectural pattern, which it is, but I believe it's much more than that. It's really more of a paradigm shift in how organizations implement it. Broadly speaking, where virtualization is part of the cloud native story, but VMware is making cloud native part of the virtualization story. Do so >>Do you think that's the, the mischaracterization of cloud native or a bad strategy or both? >>Well, I think they're missing an opportunity, right? I think they're missing an opportunity to be a cloud native leader. They're well positioned to do that with Tansu and where the technology was going and the technology is still there. Right? It's not that that >>They're just downplaying it. >>They're just downplaying it. Right. So >>As, as they were security too, they didn't really pump up security at >>All. Yeah. And you know, vSphere is still gonna be based on Kubernetes. So it's, they're going to be cloud native in terms of Kubernetes support across their product line. Anyway. So, but they're, they're really focusing on multi-cloud and betting the farm on multi-cloud and that ties to the change of the name of the conference. Although it's hard to see really how they're connecting the dots. Right. >>It's a bridge you can't cross, you can't see that bridge crossing what you're saying. Yeah. I mean, I thought that was a clever way of saying, oh, we're exploring new frontiers, which is kinda like, we don't really know what it is >>Yet. Yeah. Yeah. I think the, the term Explorer was probably concocted by a committee where, you know, they eliminated all the more interesting names and that was the one that was left. But, you know, Raghu explained that that Explorer is supposed to expand the audience for the conference beyond the VMware customer to this broader multi-cloud audience. But it's hard to say whether you >>Think it worked. Was there people that you recognize here or identified as a new audience? >>I don't think so. Not, not at this show, but over time, they're hoping to have this broader audience now where it's a multi-cloud audience where it's more than just VMware. It's more than just individual clouds, you know, we'll see if that works. >>You heard the cl the cloud chaos. Right. Do you, do you think they're, multi-cloud cross cloud services is a solution looking for a problem or is the problem real? Is there a market there? >>Oh, oh, the cloud chaos. That's a real problem. Right? Multi-cloud is, is a reality. Many organizations are leveraging different clouds for different reasons. And as a result, you have management security, other issues, which lead to this chaos challenge. So the, the problem is real aria. If they can get it up and running and, you know, straightened out, it's gonna be a great solution, but there are other products on the market that are more mature and more well integrated than aria. So they're going to, you know, have to compete, but VMware is very good at that. So, you know, I don't, I don't count the outing. Who >>Do you see as the competition lay out the horses on the track from your perspective? >>Well, you know, there's, there's a lot of different companies. I, I don't wanna mention any particular ones cuz, cuz I don't want to, you know, favor certain ones over others cuz then I get into trouble. But there's a, a lot of companies that >>Okay, I will. So you got a red hat with, you got obvious ones, Cisco, Cisco, I guess is Ashi Corp plays a role? Well, >>Cisco's been talking about this, >>Anybody we missed. >>Well, there's a number of smaller players, including some of the exhibitors at the, at the show that are putting together this, you know, I guess cloud native control plane that covers more than just a single cloud or cover on premises of virtualization as well as multiple clouds. And that's sort of the big challenge, right? This control plane. How do we come up with a way of managing all of this, heterogeneous it in a unified way that meets the business need and allows the technology organization, both it and the application development folks to move quickly and to do what they need to do to meet business needs. Right? So difficult for large organizations to get out of their own way and achieve that, you know, level of speed and scalability that, that, that technology promises. But they're organizationally challenged to, >>To accomplish. I think I've always looked at multi-cloud as a reality. I do see that as a situational analysis on the landscape. Yeah, I got Azure because I got Microsoft in my enterprise and they converted everything to the cloud. And so I didn't really change that. I got Amazon cause that's from almost my action is, and I gotta use Google cloud for some AI stuff. Right. All good. Right. I mean that's not really spanning anything. There's no ring. It's not really, it's like point solutions within the ecosystem, but it's interesting to see how people are globbing onto multi-cloud because to me it feels like a broken strategy trying to get straightened out. Right. Like, you know, multi-cloud groping from multi-cloud it feels that way. And, and that makes a lot of sense cuz if you're not on the right side of this historic shift right now, you're gonna be dead. >>So which side of the street do you wanna be on? I think it's becoming clear. I think the good news is this year. It's like, if you're on this side of the street, you're gonna be, be alive. Yeah. And this side of the street, not so much. So, you know, that's cloud native obviously hybrid steady state mul how multi-cloud shakes out. I don't think the market's ready personally in terms of true multi-cloud I think it's, it's an opportunity to have the conversation. That's why we're having the super cloud narrative. Cause it's a lit more attention getting, but it focuses on, it has to do something specific. Right? It can't be vaporware. The market won't tolerate vaporware and the new cloud architecture, at least that's my opinion. What's your reaction? Yeah. >>Well the, well you're quite right that a lot of the multiple cloud scenarios involve, you know, picking and choosing the various capabilities each of the cloud provider pro offers. Right? So you want TensorFlow, you have a little bit of Google and you want Amazon for something, but then Amazon's too expensive for something else. So you go with a Azure for that or you have Microsoft 365 as well as Amazon. Right? So you're, that's sort of a multi-cloud right there. But I think the more strategic question is organizations who are combining clouds for more architectural reasons. So for example, you know, back backup or failover or data sovereignty issues, right, where you, you can go into a single cloud and say, well, I want, you know, different data and different regions, but they may a, a particular cloud might not have all the answers for you. So you may say, okay, well I want, I may one of the big clouds or there's specialty cloud providers that focus on data sovereignty solutions for particular markets. And, and that might be part of the mix, right? Isn't necessarily all the big clouds. >>I think that's an interesting observation. Cause when you look at, you know, hybrid, right. When you really dig into a lot of the hybrid was Dr. Right? Yeah. Well, we got, we're gonna use the cloud for backup. And that, and that, what you're saying is multi-cloud could be sort of a similar dynamic, >>The low-head fruit, >>Which is fine, which is not that interesting. >>It's the low hanging fruit though. It's the easy, it's that risk free? I won't say risk free, but it's the easiest way not to get killed, >>But there's a translate into just sort of more interesting and lucrative and monetizable opportunities. You know, it's kind of a big leap to go from Dr. To actually building new applications that cross clouds and delivering new monetization value on top of data and you know, this nerve. >>Yeah. Whether that would be the best way to build such applications, the jury's still out. Why would you actually want to do well? >>I was gonna ask you, is there an advantage? We talked to Mariana, Tess, who's, you know, she's CTO of into it now of course, into it's a, you know, different kind of application, but she's like, yeah, we kinda looked hard at that multiple cloud thing. We found it too complex. And so we just picked one cloud, you know, in, for kind of the same thing. So, you know, is there an advantage now, the one advantage John, you pointed this out is if I run on Microsoft, I'll make more money. If I run on Amazon and you know, they'll, they'll help me sell. So, so that's a business justification, but is there a technical reason to do it? You know, global presence, there >>Could be technical reason not to do it either too. So >>There's more because of complexity. >>You mean? Well, and or technical debt on some services might not be there at this point. I mean the puzzle pieces gotta be there, assume that all clouds have have the pieces. Right. Then it's a matter of composability. I think E AJ who came on AJ Patel who runs modern applications development would agree with your assessment of cloud native being probably the driving front car on this messaging, because that's the issue like once you have the, everything there, then you're composing, it's the orchestra model, Dave. It's like, okay, we got everything here. How do I stitch it together? Not so much coding, writing code, cuz you got everything in building blocks and patterns and, and recipes. >>Yeah. And that's really what VMware has in mind when they talk about multi-cloud right? From VMware's perspective, you can put their virtual machine technology in any cloud. So if you, if you do that and you put it in multiple clouds, then you have, you know, this common, familiar environment, right. It's VMware everywhere. Doesn't really matter which cloud it's in because you get all the goodness that VMware has and you have the expertise on staff. And so now you have, you know, the workload portability across clouds, which can give you added benefits. But one of the straw men of this argument is that price arbitrage, right. I'm gonna, you know, put workloads in Amazon if it's cheaper. But if then if Amazon, you know, Azure has a different pricing structure for something I'm doing, then maybe I'll, I'll move a workload over there to get better pricing. That's difficult to implement in practice. Right. That's so that's that while people like to talk about that, yeah. I'm gonna optimize my cost by moving workloads across clouds, the practicalities at this point, make it difficult. Yeah. But with, if you have VMware, any your clouds, it may be more straightforward, but you still might not do it in order to save money on a particular cloud bill. >>It still, people don't want data. They really, really don't want to move >>Data. This audience does not want do it. I mean, if you look at the evolution, this customer base, even their, their affinity towards cloud native that's years in the making just to good put it perspective. Yeah. So I like how VMware's reality is on crawl, walk, run their clients, no matter what they want 'em to do, you can't make 'em run. And when they're still in diapers right. Or instill in the crib. Right. So you gotta get the customers in a mode of saying, I can see how VMware could operate that. I know and know how to run in an environment because the people who come through this show, they're like teams, it's like an offsite meeting, meets a conference and it's institutionalized for 15 plus years of main enterprise workload management. So I like, that's just not going away. So okay. Given that, how do you connect to the next thing? >>Well, I think the, the missing piece of the puzzle is, is the edge, right? Because it's not just about connecting one hyperscaler to another hyperscaler or even to on-premises or a private cloud, it's also the edge, the edge computing and the edge computing data center requirements. Right. Because you have, you could have an edge data center in a, a phone tower or a point of presence, a telco point of presence, which are those nondescript buildings, every town has. Right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you know, we have that >>Little colo that no one knows about, >>Right, exactly. That, you know, used to be your DSL end point. And now it's just a mini data center for the cloud, or it could be the, you know, the factory computer room or computer room in a retailer. You know, every retailer has that computer room in the modern retails target home Depot. They will have thousands of these little mini cloud data centers they're handling their, their point of sale systems, their, you know, local wifi and all these other local systems. That's, that's where the interesting part of this cloud story is going because that is inherently heterogeneous inherently mixed in terms of the hardware requirements, the software requirements and how you're going to build applications to support that, including AI based applications, which are sort of the, one of the areas of major innovation today is how are we going to do AI on the edge and why would we do it? And there's huge, huge opportunity to >>Well, real time referencing at the edge. Exactly. Absolutely. With all the data. My, my question is, is, is, is the cloud gonna be part of that? Or is the edge gonna actually bring new architectures and new economics that completely disrupt the, the economics that we've known in the cloud and in the data center? >>Well, this for hardware matters. If form factor matters, you can put a data center, the size of four, you know, four U boxes and then you're done >>Nice. I, >>I think it's a semantic question. It's something for the marketers to come up with the right jargon for is yeah. Is the edge part of the cloud, is the cloud part of the edge? Are we gonna come up with a new term, super cloud HyperCloud? >>Yeah. >>Wonder woman cloud, who knows? Yeah. But what, what >>Covers everything, but what might not be semantic is the, I, I come back to the Silicon that inside the, you know, apple max, the M one M two M two ultras, the, what Tesla's doing with NPUs, what you're seeing, you know, in, in, in arm based innovations could completely change the economics of computing, the security model. >>As we say, with the AJ >>Power consumption, >>Cloud's the hardware middleware. And then you got the application is the business everything's completely technology. The business is the app. I >>Mean we're 15 years into the cloud. You know, it's like every 15 years something gets blown up. >>We have two minutes left Jason. So I want to get into what you're working on for when your firm, you had a great, great traction, great practice over there. But before that, what's the, what's your scorecard on the event? How would you, what, what would be your constructive analysis? Positive, good, bad, ugly for VMwares team around this event. What'd they get right? What'd they need to work on >>Well as a smaller event, right? So about one third, the size of previous worlds. I mean, it's, it's, it's been a reasonably well run event for a smaller event. I, you know, in terms of the logistics and everything everything's handled well, I think their market messaging, they need to sort of revisit, but in terms of the ecosystem, you know, I think the ecosystem is, is, is, is doing well. You know, met with a number of the exhibitors over the last few days. And I think there's a lot of, a lot of positive things going on there. >>They see a wave coming and that's cloud native in your mind. >>Well, some of them are talking about cloud native. Some of them aren't, it's a variety of different >>Potentially you're talking where they are in this dag are on the hardware. Okay, cool. What's going on with your research? Tell us what you're focused on right now. What are you digging into? What's going on? Well, >>Cloud native, obviously a big part of what we do, but cybersecurity as well, mainframe modernization, believe it or not. It's a hot topic. DevOps continues to be a hot topic. So a variety of different things. And I'll be writing an article for Silicon angle on this conference. So highlights from the show. Great. Focusing on not just the VMware story, but some of the hot spots among the exhibitors. >>And what's your take on the whole crypto defi world. That's emerging. >>It's all a scam hundred >>Percent. All right. We're now back to enterprise. >>Wait a minute. Hold on. >>We're out of time. >>Gotta go. >>We'll make that a virtual, there are >>A lot of scams. >>I'll admit that you gotta, it's a lot of cool stuff. You gotta get through the underbelly that grows the old bolt. >>You hear kit earlier. He's like, yeah. Well, forget about crypto. Let's talk blockchain, but I'm like, no, let's talk crypto. >>Yeah. All good stuff, Jason. Thanks for coming on the cube. Thanks for spending time. I know you've been busy in meetings and thanks for coming back. Yeah. Happy to help. All right. We're wrapping up day two. I'm Jeff David ante cube coverage. Two sets three days live coverage, 12th year covering VMware's user conference called explore now was formerly VM world onto the next level. That's what it's all about. Just the cube signing off for day two. Thanks for watching.

>>from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. Palo ALTO, California It is a cute conversation. >>Hi, and welcome to the Cube studios for another cube conversation where we go in depth with thought leaders driving innovation across the tech industry. I'm your host, Peter Burroughs. The difference between business and digital business is simple. It's the role that data plays in a digital business. It's an asset that drives business innovation that drives customer experience and drives profitability in an otherwise business. It's not. It's something that's just associate with applications, But that's why traditional businesses are transforming to make better use of data. As businesses start to invest in date as an asset, they need to invest in the capabilities that take care of data's an asset. And that's one of the major challenges at all enterprises face today. It's an extremely hot domain, but not all options take full advantage of the cloud. And what does that mean? What does it mean to have a set of data protection data management capabilities be fully embedded with Cloud and Native Cloud Service's To have that conversation, we've got John Kumar, who is the CEO and co founder of clue meal with us today. John. Welcome to the show. >>Thank you. Very nice to be here. >>So give us the update. Include me. Oh, >>so come you. Ah, two year old company, right? We dress recently launched out of stealth. So so far, you know, we we came out with the innovative offering which is a sass solution to go and protect on premises in November and vmc environments. That's what we launch out of style two months ago. We want our best of show. When we came out off Stilton in November 20 >>19. >>But ultimately we started with a vision about protecting data respective off, buried, recites. So it was all about you know, you know, on premises on Cloud and other SAS service is so one single service that protects data introspective about recites So far we executed on on premises VM wear and Vmc Today What we're announcing for the first time is our protection to go and protect applications natively built on aws. So these are application that ineptitude natively built on aws that clue me in as a service will protect respective off. You know them running, you know, in one region or cross region cross accounts and a single service little our customers to protect native AWS applications. The other big announcement we're making is a new round of financing, and that is testament to the interest in the space and the innovative nature off the platform that we have built. So when we came out of still, we announced we had raised two rounds of financing, $51 million in series and Series B round of financing. Today, what we're announcing is a serious see around the financing off $135 million the largest. I would say Siri, see financing for a sass and the price company, especially a company that's a little over two years >>old. Look, graduations that's gonna buy a lot of new technology and a lot of customer engagement. >>But what customers is a set up from where customers are really looking for is they're looking for >>tooling and methods and capabilities that allow them to treat their data differently. Talk a bit about the central importance of data and how it's driving decisions. ACLU Mia. >>Yes, so fundamentally. You know, when we built out the data platform, it was about going after the data protection as the first use case in the platform. Longer term, the journey really is to go from a data protection company to a data management company. And this is possible for the first time because you have the public cloud on your side. If you're truly built a platform for the cloud on the public cloud, you have this distinct and want a JJ off. Now, taking the data that you're protecting and really leveraging it for other service is that you can enable the enterprise for and this is exactly what and the prices are asking for, especially as they, you know, you make a transition from on premises. So the public cloud where they're powering on more and more applications in the public cloud and they really, you know, sometimes have no idea in terms of where the data is sitting and how they can take advantage off all these data sources that ultimately clueless protecting >>well, no idea where the data sitting take advantage of these data. Sources presumably facilitate new classes of integration. That's how you generate value out of data that suggests that we're not just looking at protection as >>crucially important as it is, we're looking at new classes of service. Is that >>gonna make it possible to alter the way you think about data management? If I got that right and >>what are those in service is? >>Yes, it's a journey, as I said, very starting with an organ data protection. It's also about doing there the protection across multiple clouds, right? So ultimately, were a platform. Even though we're announcing, you know, aws, you know, applications support today. We've already done the Emperor and BMC As we go along. You'll see us kind of doing this across multiple clouds. So an application that's built on the cloud running across multiple clouds AWS, azure and DCP whatever it might be, you'll see it's kind of doing there, the protection across in applications in multiple clouds. And then it's about going and saying, you know, can we take advantage of the data that we're protecting and really power on adjacent use cases? They could be security use cases because we know exactly what's changing when it's changing. There could be infrastructure and let excuse cases because people are running tens of thousands off instances and containers and envy EMS in the public cloud on. If a problem happens, nobody really knows what caused it. And we have all the data and we can kind off, you know, index it in the back end and lies in the back end without the customer needing to lift a finger and really show them what happened in their environment that they didn't know about right. So there's a lot of interesting use cases that get powered on because you have the ability to index all the data year. You have the ability to essentially look at all the changes that are happening and really give that visibility. Tow the end customer and all of this one click and automating it without the customer needing to do much. >>I will tell you this that we've talked to a number of customers of Romeo and the fundamental choice. The clue. Meo choice was simplicity. How are you going to sustain that even as you have these new classes of service is >>that is the key right? And that is about the foundation we have built at the end of the day, right? So if you look at all of our customers that have on border today. It's really the experience where in less than 15 minutes they can essentially start enjoying the power of the platform and the back in that we have built. And the focus on design that we have is ultimately why we're able to do this with simplicity. So so when when we when we think about you know all the things we do in the back, and there's obviously a lot of complexity in the back end because it is a complex platform. But every time we ask ourselves the question that okay from a customer perspective, how do we make sure that it is one click and easy for them? So that focus and that attention to detail that we have behind the scenes to make sure that the customer ultimately should just consumed the service and should not need to do anything more than what they absolutely need to do so that they can essentially focus on work, adds value to the business, >>takes a lot of technology, a lot of dedication to make complex things really simple? Absolutely. John Kumar, CEO and co founder of Coolio. Thanks very much for being on the Cube. Thank you. Bigger and thanks for joining us for another cube conversation on Peter Burress. See you next time

>>from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. Palo ALTO, California It is a cute conversation. >>Welcome to another wicked bond digital community event, this one sponsored by Clue Me. Oh, I'm your host, Peter Burroughs. Any business that aspires to be a digital business needs to think about its data differently. It needs to think about how data could be applied to customer experience, value propositions, operations and improve profitability and strategic options for the businesses that moves forward. But that means openly, either. We're thinking about how we embed data more deeply into our operations. That means we must also think about how we're going to protect that data. So the business is not suffer because someone got a hold of our data or corrupted our data or that system just failed and we needed to restore that data very quickly. Now what we want to be able to do is we're going to do that in a way that's natural and looks a lot like a cloud because we want that cloud experience in our data protection as well. So that's we're gonna talk about with Clue Meo Today, a lot of folks think in terms of moving all the data into the cloud. We think increasingly we have to recognize the cloud is not a strategy for centralizing data but rather distributing data and being able to protect that data where it is utilizing a simple, common cloudlike experience has become an increasingly central competitive need for a lot of digital enterprises. The first conversation we had was with poo John Kamar, who John is a CEO and co founder of Cuneo. Let's hear a Peugeot on had to say about data value. Data service is and clue Meo. John, Welcome to the show. >>Thank you. Very nice to be here. >>So give us the update. Include me. Oh, >>so come you. Ah, a two year old company, right? We dress recently launched out of stealth. So so far, you know, we we came out with the innovative offering which is a sass solution to go and protect on premises in November and vmc environments. That's what we launched out of style two months ago. We want our best of show. When we came out off Stilton in November 2019. But ultimately we started with a vision about protecting data respective off buried, recites So it was all about, you know, you know, on premises on Cloud and other SAS service is so one single service that protects data introspective about recites So far, we executed on on premises VM wear and Vmc. Today What we're announcing for the first time is our protection to go and protect applications natively built on aws. So these are application that ineptitude natively built on aws that clue me in as a service will protect respective off. You know them running, you know, in one region or cross region cross accounts and a single service little our customers to protect native AWS applications. The other big announcement we're making is a new round of financing, and that is testament to the interest in the space and the innovative nature off the platform that we have built. So when we came out of still, we announced we had raised two rounds of financing $51 million in series and series B round of financing. Today, what we're announcing is a serious see around the financing off $135 million the largest. I would say Siri see financing for a sass and the price company, especially a company that's a little over two years >>old. Look, graduations that's gonna buy a lot of new technology and a lot of customer engagement. But what customers is a set up from where customers are really looking for is they're looking for tooling and methods and capabilities that allow them to treat their data differently. Talk a bit about the central importance of data and how it's driving decisions. ACLU mia >>Yes, so fundamentally. You know, when we built out the data platform, it was about going after the data protection as the first use case in the platform. Longer term, the journey really is to go from a data protection company to a data management company, and this is possible for the first time because you have the public cloud on your side. If you're truly built a platform for the cloud on the public cloud, you have this distinct and want a JJ off. Now, taking the data that you're protecting and really leveraging it for other service is that you can enable the enterprise for, and this is exactly what and the prices are asking for, especially as they you know, you make a transition from on premises. So the public cloud where they're powering on more and more applications in the public cloud and they really, you know, sometimes have no idea in terms off where the data is sitting and how they can take advantage off all these data sources that ultimately clueless protecting >>Well, no idea where the data sitting take advantage of these data. Sources presumably facilitate new classes of integration because that's how you generate value out of data. That suggests that we're not just looking at protection as crucially important as it is we're looking at new classes of service is they're gonna make it possible to alter the way you think about data management. If I got that right and what are those in service is? >>Yes, it's It's a journey, As I said, very starting with Finnegan Data protection. It's also about doing there the protection across multiple clouds, right? So ultimately we had a platform. Even though we're announcing, you know, aws, you know, applications support. Today. We've already done the ember and BMC as we go along. You'll see us kind of doing this across multiple clouds, an application that's built on the cloud running across multiple clouds, AWS, Azure and DCP. Whatever it might be, you see, it's kind of doing there, the protection across in applications and multiple clouds. And then it's about going and saying, Can we take advantage of the data that we're protecting and really power on adjusting to use cases, they could be security use cases because we know exactly what's changing when it's changing. There could be infrastructure. Analytics use cases because people are running tens of thousands off instances and containers and envy EMS in the public cloud. And if a problem happens, nobody really knows what caused it. And we have all the data and we can kind off index it in the back end and lies in the back end without the customer needing to lift a finger and really show them what happened in their environment that didn't know about right. So there's a lot of interesting use cases that get powered on because you have the ability to index all the data year. You have the ability to essentially look at all the changes that are happening and really give that visibility. Tow the end customer and all of this one click and automating it without the customer needing to do much. >>I will tell you this that we've talked to a number of customers of Romeo and the fundamental choice. The clue. Meo choice was simplicity. How are you going to sustain that? Even as you have these new classes of service is >>that is the key right? And that is about the foundation we have built at the end of the day, right? So if you look at all of our customers that have on border today, it's really the experience where in less than 15 minutes they can essentially start enjoying the power of the platform and the back end that we have built. And the focus on design that we have is ultimately why we're able to do this with simplicity. So so when when we when we think about you know all the things we do in the back, and there's obviously a lot of complexity in the back end because it is a complex platform. But every time we ask ourselves the question that okay from a customer perspective, how do we make sure that it is one click and easy for them? So that focus and that attention to detail that we have behind the scenes to make sure that the customer ultimately should just consumed the service and should not need to do anything more than what they absolutely need to do so that they can essentially focus on what eggs value to the business >>takes a lot of technology, a lot of dedication to make complex things really simple. Absolutely. John Kumar, CEO and co founder of Coolio. Thanks very much for being on the Cube. Thank you. Great conversation with you, John. Data value leading to data service is now. Let's think a little bit more about how enterprises ultimately need to start thinking about how to manifest that in a cloud rich world, Chad Kenney is the vice president and chief acknowledges a Cuneo and Chad and I had an opportunity to sit down to talk about some of the interesting approach. Is that air possible because of cloud and very importantly, to talk about a new announcement that clue me is making as they expand their support of different cloud types? What's your Chad had to say? The notion of data service is has been around for a long time, but it's being upended, recast, reformed as a consequence of what cloud can do. But that also means that Cloud is creating new ways of thinking about data service. Is new opportunities to introduce and drive this powerful approach of thinking about digital businesses centralized assets and to have that conversation about what that means. We've got Chad Candy, who's a VP and chief technologist of Kumiko with us today. Chad, welcome to the Cube. >>Thanks so much for having me. >>Okay, so what? Start with that notion of data service is and the role because gonna play clue. Meo has looked at this problem or looked this challenge from the ground up. What does that mean? >>So if you look at the cloud is a whole customers have gone through a significant journey. We've seen you know that the first shadow I t kind of play out where people decided to go to the cloud I t was too slow. It moved into kind of a cloud first movement where people realize the power of cloud service is that then got them to understand a little bit of interesting things that played out one moving applications as they exist. We're not very efficient, and so they needed to re architect certain applications. Second, SAS was a core way of getting to the cloud in a very simplistic fashion without having to do much of whatsoever. And so, for applications that were not core competencies, they realized they should go sass. And for anything that was a core competency, they needed to really re architect to be able to take advantage of those very powerful cloud service is. And so when you look at it, if people were to develop applications today, cloud is the default. They'd go tours. And so for us, we had the luxury of building from the cloud up on these very powerful cloud service is to enable a much more simple model for our customers to consume. But even more so to be able to actually leverage the agility and elasticity of the cloud. Think about this for a quick second. We can take facilities, break them up, expand them across many different compute resource is within the cloud versus having to take kind of what you did on prim in a single server or multitudes of servers and try to plant that in the cloud from a customer's experience perspective. It's vastly different. You get a world where you don't think about how you manage the infrastructure, how you manage the service, you just consume it. And the value that customers get out of that is not only getting their data there, which is the on ramp around our data protection mechanisms, but also being able to leverage cloud. Native service is on top of that data in the longer term, as we have this one comment global index and platform. What we're super excited today to announce is that we're adding in eight of US native capabilities to be ableto protect that data in the public cloud. And this is kind of the default place where most people go to from a cloud perspective to really get their applications are up and running and take advantage of a lot of those cloud. Native service is >>well, if you're gonna be Claude native and promised to customers is going to support There were clothes. You've got to be obviously on eight of us, So congratulations on that. But let's go back to this notion of you use the word powerful 80 of the U. S. Is a mature platform, G C P is coming along very rapidly. Azure is also very, very good. There are others as well, but sometimes enterprises discover that they have to make some tradeoffs. To get the simplicity, they have to get less function, to get the reliability they have to get rid of simplicity. How does clue Meo think through those trade offs to deliver that simple? That powerful, that reliable platform for something is important. Data protection and data service is in general, >>so we wanted to create an experience that was single click, discover everything and be able to help people consume that service quickly. And if you look at the problem that people are dealing with a customer's talk to us about this all time is the power of the cloud resulted in hundreds, if not thousands of accounts within eight of us. And now you get into a world where you're having to try to figure out how did I manage all of these for one? Discover all of it and consistently make sure that my data, which, as you've mentioned, is incredibly important to businesses today as protected. And so having that one common view is incredibly important to start with, and the simplicity of that is immensely powerful. When you look at what we do as a business, to make sure that that continues to occur is first, we leverage cloud. Native Service is on the back, which are complex, and getting those things to run and orchestrate are things that we build on the back end on the front end. We take the customers view and looking at what is the most simple way of getting this experience to occur for both discovery as well as you know, backup recovery and even being able to search in a global fashion and so really taking their seats to figure out what would be the easiest way to both consume the service and then also be able to get value from it by running that service >>A W s has been around well, a ws in many respects founded the cloud industry. It's it's certainly sales force on the South side. But a W. S is the first company to make the promise that it was gonna provide this very flexible, very powerful, very agile infrastructures of service. And they've done absolutely marvelous job about it, and they've also advanced the stadium to the technology dramatically and in many respects, are in the driver's seat. What tradeoffs? What limits does your new platform faces? It goes to eight of us. Or is it the same Coolio experience, adding, Now all of the capabilities of eight of us? >>It's a great question. I think a lot of solutions out there today are different parts and pieces kind of club together. What we built is a platform that these new service is just get instantly added. Next time you log in to that service, you'll see that that available Thio and you could just go ahead and log in to your accounts and build to discover directly. And I think that the the power of sass is really that not only have we made it immensely secure, which is something that people think about quite a bit with having, you know, not only did in flight, but data at rest, encryption on and leveraging really the cloud capabilities of security. But we've made it incredibly simple for them to be able to consume that easily, literally not lift a finger to get anything done. It's available for you when you log into that system. And so having more and more data sources in one single pane of glass and being able to see all the accounts, especially in AWS, where you have quite a few of those accounts, and to be able to apply policies in a consistent fashion to ensure that your you know, compliant within the environment for whatever business requirements that you have around data protection is immensely powerful to our >>customers. Judd Jenny, chief technologist Clue me Oh, thanks very much for being on the Cube. Thank you. Great conversation. Chad especially interested in hearing about how Camilo is being extended to include eight of US service, is within its overall data protection approach and obviously into data service is let's take a little bit more into that clue. MEOWS actually generated and prepared a short video we could take a look at that goes a little bit more deeply into how this is all gonna work. >>Enterprises air moving rapidly to the cloud. Embracing sass for simplified delivery of key service is in this cloud centric world. I T teams could focus on more strategic work, accelerating digital transformation initiatives when it comes to backup. I t is stuck designing, patching and capacity planning for on Prem Systems. Snapshots alone for data protection in the public cloud is risky, and there are hundreds of unprotected SAS applications in the typical enterprise. Move to cloud should make backup simpler, but it can quickly become exponentially worse. It's time to rethink the backup experience. What if there were no hardware, software or virtual appliances to size, configure, manage or even by it all? And by adding enterprise backup, public cloud workloads are no longer exposed to accidental data Deletion and Ransomware and Clooney. Oh, we deliver secure data backup and recovery without any of that complexity or risk. We provide all of the critical functions of enterprise backup de Doop and scheduling user and key management and cataloging because were built in the public cloud, weaken rapidly, deliver new innovations and take advantage of inherent data security controls. Our mission is to protect your data wherever it's stored. The clue. Meo authentic SAS backup experience scales on demand to manage and protect your data more easily and efficiently. And without things like cloud bills or egress charges, Clooney oh gives you predictable costs. Monitor and global back of compliance is far simpler, and the built in always on security of clue. Meo means that your data is safe. Take advantage of the cloud for backup with no constraints. Clue. Meo Authentic sass for the Enterprise. >>Great video as we think about moving forward in the future and what customers are trying to do. We have to think more in terms of the native service is that cloud can provide and how to fully exploit them to increase the aggregate flexibility both within our enterprises, but also based on what our supplies have to offer. We had a great conversation with Runes Young, who is thesis CTO and co founder of Cuneo, about just that. Let's hear it wound had to say everybody's talking about the cloud and what the cloud might be able to do for their business. The challenge is there are a limited number of people in the world who really understands what it means to build for the cloud utilizing the cloud. It's a lot of approximations out there, but not a lot of folks are deeply involved in actually doing it right. We've got one here with us today, wound junk is thesis CEO and co founder of Clue Meo Womb. Welcome to the Cube. >>Happy to be here. >>So let's start with this issue of what it means to build for the cloud. Now Lou MEOWS made the decision to have everything fit into that as a service model. What is that practically need? >>So from the engineering point of view, building our sauce application is fundamentally different. So the way that I'll go and say is that at Cuneo we actually don't build software and ship software. What we actually do, it builds service and service is what you're actually shipped Our customers. Let me give you an example. In the case of Kun, you they say backups fail like so far sometimes fails. We get that failures too. The difference in between Clooney oh, and traditional solutions is that if something were to fail, we are they one detecting that failure before our customers do Not only that, when something fails, we actually know exactly why it failed. Therefore, we can actually troubleshoot it, and we can actually fix it and operate the service without the customer intervention. So it's not about the books also or about the troubleshooting aspect, but it's also about new features. If you were to introduce a new features, we can actually do this without having customers upgraded call. We will actually do it ourselves. So essentially it frees the customers from actually doing all these actions because we will do them on behalf of them >>at scale. And I think that's the second thing I want to talk about quickly. Is that the ability to use the cloud to do many of the things that you're talking about? At scale creates incredible ranges of options that customers have at their disposal. So, for example, a W s customers of historically used things like snapshots to provide ah modicum of data protection to their AWS workloads. But there are other new options that could be applied if the systems are built to supply them. Give us a sense of how clue Meal is looking at this question of, you know, snapshots were something else. >>Yes, So, basically, traditionally, even on the imprints, out of the things, you have something called the snapshots and you had your backups right, and they're they're fundamentally different. But if you actually shift your gears and you look at what A. W s offers today. They actually offers stability for you to take snapshots. But actually, that's not a backup, right, And they're fundamentally different. So let's talk about it a little bit more what it means to be snapshots and a backup, right? So they say, there's a bad actor and your account gets compromised like your AWS account gets compromised. So then the bad actor has access not only to the EBS volumes, but also to the snap shows. What that means is that that person can actually go in and delete the E. V s volume as well as the TVs nuptials. Now, if you had a backup, let's say you are should take a backup of that TVs William to whom you that bad actor would have access to the CVS volumes. However, it won't be able to delete the backup that we actually have, including you. So in the whole thing. The idea off Romeo is that you should be able to protect all of your assets, that being either an on Prem or neither of us by setting up a single policies. And these are true backups and not just snapshots >>and that leads to the last question I have, which is ultimately the ability to introduce thes capabilities. At scale creates a lot of new opportunities of customers can utilize to do a better job of building applications, but also, I presume, managing how they use AWS because snapshots and other types of service can expand dramatically, which can increase your cost. How is doing it better with things like Native Backup Service is improve customers ability to administer the AWS spend and accounts. >>So, great question. So, essentially, if you look at the enterprises today, obviously they have multiple on premise data centers and also a different car providers that they use like AWS and Azure and also a few SAS applications, Right? So then the idea is for Camilo is to create this single platform what all of the stains can actually be backed up in a uniform way where you can actually manage all of them. And then the other thing is all doing it in the cloud. So if you think about it, if you don't solve the problem, fundamental in the cow, their stings that you end up paying later on. So let's take an example. Right. Uh, moving bites. Moving bites in between one server to the other. Traditionally basically moving bites from one rack to the other. It was always free. You never had to pay anything for that. >>Certainly in the data center. >>Right? But if you actually go to the public cloud, you cannot say the same thing, right? Basically, moving by across AWS recent regions is not free anymore. Moving data from AWS to the on premises. That's not for either. So these are all the things that you know cop provider service providers are gods has to consider and actually solved so that the customers can on Lee back it up into come you. But then they actually can leverage different cloud providers, you know, in a seamless way, without having to worry all of this costs associated with it so criminal we should be able to back it up. But we should be able to also offer mobility in between either aws back up the M word or the M C. >>So if I can kind of summarize what you just said that you want to be able to provide to an account to an enterprise, the ability to not have to worry about the back and infrastructure from a technical and process standpoint, but not also have to worry so much about the back and infrastructure from a cost of financial standpoint that by providing a service and then administering how that service is optimally handled, the customer doesn't have to think about some of those financial considerations of moving get around in the same way that they used to. Have I got that right, >>I absolutely, yes, basically multiple accounts, multiple regions, multiple couple providers. It is extremely hard to manage. What come your does. It will actually provide you a single pane of glass where you can actually manage them all. But then, if you actually think about just and manageability this, actually you can actually do that by just building a management layer on top of it. But more importantly, you really need to have a single data repository for you. For us to be able to provide a true mobility in between them. One is about managing, but the other thing is about if you're done, if you're done in the real divide way, it provides you the ability to move them and leverages the cloud power so that you don't have to worry about the cloud expenses but whom you internally is the one that actually optimizing all of this for our customers. >>Wound young cto and co founder of Coolio. Thanks very much for being on the Q. Thank you. Thanks very much. Room I want to thank clue me Oh, for providing this important content about the increasingly important evolution of data protection Cloud. Now, here's your opportunity to weigh in on this crucially important arena. What do you think about this evolving relationship? How do you foresee it operating in your enterprise? What comments do you have? What questions do you have of the thought leaders from Clue Me? Oh, and elsewhere. That's what we gonna do now we're gonna go into the crowd chat. We're gonna hear from each other about this really important topic and what you foresee in your enterprise as your digital business transforms, it's crochet

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to San Francisco, everybody. My name is David Lantz. I'm here with my co host John Troia. This is Day three of V M World 2019 2 sets. >> This is >> our 10th year at the M. World Cube is the leader in live enterprise tech coverage. Marry on Blondie is here. He's the C m o and chief evangelist that 10 tree by DDN Yes, sir. He's joined by Graham Breezes The Field CTO at 10 Tree also by DDN Recent acquisition jets Great to see you. >> Likewise, as they say, we're back. I like I like to call it a hibernation in the sense that people may have not known where did Ian or 10 Trias and Tension by Dede and, as the name implies, were acquired a year ago at the M World August 31st of 2018. And in the year since, we've been ableto invest in engineering support, my joining the company in marketing to take this solution, we've been able to save thousands of customers millions of man hours and bring it to a larger number of users. Way >> first saw 10 tree, we said, Wow, this is all about simplification. And Jonah Course you remember that when you go back to the early early Dick Cube days of of'em World, very complex storage was a major challenge. 10 Tree was all about simplifying that. Of course, we know DDN as well is the high performance specialist and have worked with those guys for a number of years. But take >> us >> back Married to the original vision of 10 Cherie. Is that original vision still alive? How was it evolved? >> Well, I'd say that it's, ah, number one reason why we're a part of the DD and family of brands because, as, ah, portfolio company, they're looking good. Bring technologies. I'm the marketing guy for our enterprise or virtual ization audience, and the product sets that cover high performance computing have their own audience. So for me, I'm focused on that. Graham's also focused on that, and, uh, really what continues to make us different today is the fact we were designed to learn from the beginning to understand how virtual machines end to end work with infrastructure. And that's really the foundation of what makes us different today. The same thing, right? >> So from the very beginning we were we were built to understand the work clothes that we service in the data center. So and that was virtual machines. We service those on multiple hyper visors today in terms of being able to understand those workloads intrinsically gives us a tremendous capability. Thio place. I owe again understanding that the infrastructure network storage, hyper visor, uh, weaken view that end end in terms of a latent a graph and give customers and insight into the infrastructure how it's performing. I would say that we're actually extending that further ways in terms of additional workload that we're gonna be able to take on later this year. >> So I know a lot >> of storage admits, although I I only play one on >> TV, but, uh, no, consistently >> throughout the years, right? 10 tree user experiences that is the forefront there. And in fact, they they often some people have said, You know what? I really want to get something done. I grab my tent Reeboks and so it can't talk. Maybe some examples of one example of why the user experience how the user experiences differ or why, why it's different. >> I'll start off by saying that I had a chance being new to the company just two weeks to meet a lot of 10 tree users. And prior to taking the job, I talkto us some folks behind the scenes, and they all told me the same thing. But what I was so interested to hear is that if they didn't have 10 tree, they'd otherwise not have the time to do the automation work, the research work, the strategy work or even the firefighting that's vital to their everyday operations. Right? So it's like, of course, I don't need to manage it. If I did, I wouldn't be able to do all these other things. And I think that's it. Rings true right that it's hard to quantify that time savings because people say, 0 1/2 of it. See, that's really not much of the greater scheme of things. I don't know. 1/2 50. Working on strategic program is a huge opportunity. Let's see >> the value of 10 tree to our end users and we've heard from a lot of them this week actually spent a fantastic event hearing from many of our passionate consumers. From the very beginning. We wanted to build a product that ultimately customers care about, and we've seen that this week in droves. But I would say the going back to what they get out of it. It's the values and what they don't have to do, so they don't have to carve up ones. They don't have to carve up volumes. All they have to do is work with the units of infrastructure that air native to their environment, v ems. They deal with everything in their environment from our virtual machine perspective, virtual machines, one thing across the infrastructure. Again, they can add those virtual machines seamlessly. They can add those in seconds they don't have toe size and add anything in terms of how am I gonna divide up the storage coming in a provisional I Oh, how am I going to get the technical pieces right? Uh, they basically just get place v EMS, and we have a very simplistic way to give them Ah, visualization into that because we understand that virtual machine and what it takes to service. It comes right back to them in terms of time savings that are tremendous in terms of that. >> So let's deal with the elephant in the room. So, so 10 tree. We've talked about all the great stuff in the original founding vision. But then I ran into some troubles, right? And so what? How do you deal with that with customers in terms of just their perception of what what occurred you guys did the eye poets, et cetera, take us through how you're making sure customers are cool with you guys. >> I'm naturally, glass is half full kind of guy from previous, uh, times on the Cube. The interesting thing is, not a lot of people actually knew. Maybe we didn't create enough brand recognition in the past for people to even know that there was a transition. There were even some of our customers. And Graham, you can pile on this that because they don't manage the product every day because they don't have to. It's kind of so easy they even for gotten a lot about it on don't spend a lot of time. I'd say that the reason why we are able to continue. Invest today a year after the acquisition is because retaining existing customers was something that was very successful, and to a lot of them, you can add comments. It wasn't easy to switch to something. They could just switch to something else because there's no other product, does these automatic things and provides the predictive modeling that they're used to. So it's like what we switched to so they just kept going, and to them, they've given us a lot of great feedback. Being owned by the largest private storage company on planet Earth has the advantages of strong source of supply. Great Leverett reverse logistics partnerships with suppliers as a bigger company to be able to service them. Long >> trial wasn't broke, so you didn't need to fix it. And you were ableto maintain obviously a large portion of that customer base. And what was this service experience like? And how is that evolving? And what is Dede and bring to the table? >> So, uh, boy DD and brings so many resources in terms of bringing this from the point when they bought us last year. A year ago today, I think we transition with about 40 people in the company. We're up about 200 now, so Ah, serious investment. Obviously, that's ah have been a pretty heavy job in terms of building that thing back up. Uh, service and support we've put all of the resource is the stated goal coming across the acquisition was they have, ah, 10. Tree support tender by DNC would be better than where 10 tree support was. We fought them on >> rate scores, too. So it's hard to go from there. Right? And >> I would say what we've been doing on that today. I mean, in terms of the S L. A's, I think those were as good as they've ever been from that perspective. So we have a big team behind us that are working really hard to make sure that the customer experience is exactly what we want. A 10 tree experience to be >> So big messages at this This show, of course, multi cloud kubernetes solving climate change, fixing the homeless problem in San Francisco. I'm not hearing that from you guys. What's what's your key message to the VM world? >> Well, I personally believe that there's a lot of opportunity to invest in improving operations that are already pretty darn stable, operating these environments, talking to folks here on the floor. These new technologies you're talking about are certainly gonna change the way we deploy things. But there's gonna be a lot of time left Still operating virtualized server infrastructure and accelerating VD I deployments to just operationalized things better. We're hoping that folks choose some new technologies out there. I mean, there's a bill was a lot of hype in past years. About what technology to choose. We're all flash infrastructure, but well, I'd liketo for the say were intelligent infrastructure. We have 10 and 40 get boards were all flash, but that's not what you choose this. You choose this because you're able to take their operations and spend more your time on the apse because you're not messing around with that low level infrastructure. I think that there's a renaissance of, of, of investment and opportunity to innovate in that space into Graham's point about going further up the stack. We now have data database technology that we can show gives database administrators the direct ability to self service their own cloning, their own, staging their own operations, which otherwise would be a complex set of trouble tickets internally to provision the environment. Everyone loves to self service. That's really big. I think our customers love. It's a self service aspect. I see the self service and >> the ability to d'oh again, not have to worry about all the things that they don't have to do in terms of again not having to get into those details. A cz Morrow mentioned in terms of the database side, that's, ah, workload, the workload intelligence that we've already had for virtual machines. We can now service that database object natively. We're going to do sequel server later this year, uh, being ableto again, being able to see where whether or not they've got a host or a network or a storage problem being able to see where those the that unit they're serving, having that inside is tremendously powerful. Also being able the snapshot to be able to clone to be able thio manage and protect that database in a native way. Not having to worry about, you know, going into a console, worrying about the underlying every structure, the ones, the volumes, all the pieces that might people people would have to get involved with maybe moving from, like, production to test and those kinds of things. So it's the simplicity, eyes all the things that you really don't have to do across the getting down in terms of one's the volumes, the sizing exercises one of our customers put it. Best thing. You know, I hear a lot of things back from different customer. If he says the country, the sentry box is the best employee has >> I see that way? Reinvest, Reinvest. I haven't heard a customer yet that talks about reducing staff. Their I t staff is really, really critical. They want to invest up Kai throw buzzword out there, Dev. Ops. You didn't mention that it's all about Dev ops, right? And one thing that's interesting here is were or ah, technology that supports virtual environments and how many software developers use virtual environments to write, test and and basically developed programmes lots and being able to give those developers the ability to create new machines and be very agile in the way they do. Their test of is awesome and in terms of just taking big amounts of data from a nap, if I can circling APP, which is these virtual machines be ableto look at that on the infrastructure and more of her copy data so that I can do stuff with that data. All in the flying virtualization we think of Dev Ops is being very much a cloud thing. I'd say that virtual ization specifically server virtualization is the perfect foundation for Dav ops like functionality. And what we've been able to do is provide that user experience directly to those folks up the stacks of the infrastructure. Guy doesn't have to touch it. I wanted to pull >> a couple of threads together, and I think because we talked about the original vision kind of E m r centric, VM centric multiple hyper visors now multi cloud here in the world. So what >> are you seeing >> in the customers? Is that is it? Is it a multi cloud portfolio? What? What are you seeing your customers going to in the future with both on premise hybrid cloud public. So where does where does 10 tree fit into the storage portfolio? >> And they kind of >> fit all over the map. I think in terms of the most of the customers that we have ultimately have infrastructure on site and in their own control. We do have some that ultimately put those out in places that are quote unquote clouds, if you will, but they're not in the service. Vendor clouds actually have a couple folks, actually, that our cloud providers. So they're building their own clouds to service customers using market. What >> differentiates service is for serving better d our offerings because they can offer something that's very end end for that customer. And so there's more. They monetize it. Yeah, and I think those type of customers, like the more regional provider or more of a specialty service provider rather than the roll your own stuff, I'd say that Generally speaking, folks want tohave a level of abstraction as they go into new architecture's so multi cloud from a past life I wrote a lot about. This is this idea that I don't have to worry about which cloud I'm on to do what I'm doing. I want to be able to do it and then regards of which clouded on it just works. And so I think that our philosophy is how we can continue to move up the stack and provide not US access to our analytics because all that analytic stuff we do in machine learning is available via a P I We have ah v r o plug in and all that sort of stuff to be able allow that to happen. But when we're talking now about APS and how those APS work across multiple, you know, pieces of infrastructure, multiple V EMS, we can now develop build a composite view of what those analytics mean in a way that really now gives them new inside test. So how can I move it over here? Can I move over here? What's gonna happen if I move it over here over there? And I think that's the part that should at least delineate from your average garden variety infrastructure and what we like to call intelligent infrastructure stopping that can, Actually that's doing stuff to be able to give you that data because there's always a way you could do with the long way. Just nobody has time to do with the long way, huh? No. And I would actually say that you >> know what you just touched on, uh, going back to a fundamental 10 tree. Different churches, getting that level of abstraction, right is absolutely the key to what we do. We understand that workload. That virtual machine is the level of abstraction. It's the unit infrastructure within a virtual environment in terms of somebody who's running databases. Databases are the unit of infrastructure that they want to manage. So we line exactly to the fundamental building blocks that they're doing in those containers, certainly moving forward. It's certainly another piece we're looking. We've actually, uh I think for about three years now, we've been looking pretty hard of containers. We've been waiting to see where customers were at. Obviously Of'em were put. Put some things on the map this week in terms of that they were pretty excited about in terms of looking in terms of how we would support. >> Well, it certainly makes it more interesting if you're gonna lean into it with someone like Vienna where behind it. I mean, I still think there are some questions, but I actually like the strategy of because if I understand it correctly of Visa, the sphere admin is going to see the spear. But ah ah, developers going to see kubernetes. So >> yeah, that's kind of cool. And we just want to give people an experience, allows them to self service under the control of the I T department so that they can spend less time on infrastructure. Just the end of the I haven't met a developer that even likes infrastructure. They love to not have to deal with it at all. They only do it out. It assessed even database folks They love infrastructural because they had to think about it. They wanted to avoid the pitfalls of bad infrastructure infrastructures Code is yeah, way we believe in that >> question. Go to market. Uh, you preserve the 10 tree name so that says a lot. What's to go to market like? How are you guys structuring the >> organizational in terms of, ah, parent company perspective or a wholly owned subsidiary of DDN? So 10 tree by DDN our go to market model is channel centric in the sense that still a vast majority of people who procure I t infrastructure prefer to use an integrator or reseller some sort of thing. As far as that goes, what you'll see from us, probably more than you did historically, is more work with some of the folks in the ecosystem. Let's say in the data protection space, we see a rubric as an example, and I think you can talk to some of that scene where historically 10 Tree hadn't really done. It's much collaboration there, but I think now, given the overall stability of the segment and people knowing exactly where value could be added, we have a really cool joint story and you're talking about because your team does that. >> Yeah, so I would certainly say, you know, in terms of go to market Side, we've been very much channel lead. Actually, it's been very interesting to go through this with the channel folks. It's a There's also a couple other pieces I mentioned you mentioned some of the cloud provider. Some of those certainly crossed lines between whether they're MSP is whether they are resellers, especially as we go to our friends across the pond. Maybe that's the VM it'll Barcelona discussion, but some of those were all three, right? So there are customer their service providers there. Ah ah, channel partner if you want terms of a resellers. So, um, it's been pretty interesting from that perspective. I think the thing is a lot of opportunity interview that Certainly, uh, I would say where we're at in terms of, we're trying to very much. Uh, we understand customers have ecosystems. I mean, Marco Mitchem, the backup spaces, right? Uh, customers. We're doing new and different things in there, and they want us to fit into those pieces. Ah, and I'd certainly say in the world that we're in, we're not tryingto go solve and boil the ocean in terms of all the problems ourselves we're trying to figure out are the things that we can bring to the table that make it easier for them to integrate with us And maybe in some new and novel, right, >> So question So what's the number one customer problem that when you guys hear you say, that's our wheelhouse, we're gonna crush the competition. >> I'll let you go first, >> So I'd say, you know, if they have a virtualized environment, I mean, we belong there. Vermin. Actually, somebody said this bed is the best Earlier again. Today in the booze is like, you know, the person who doesn't have entries, a person who doesn't know about 10 tree. If they have a virtual environment, you know, the, uh I would say that this week's been pretty interesting. Lots of customer meetings. So it's been pretty, pretty awesome, getting a lot of things back. But I would say the things that they're asking us to solve our not impossible things. They're looking for evolution's. They're looking for things in terms of better insights in their environment, maybe deeper insights. One of the things we're looking to do with the tremendous amount of data we've got coming back, Um, got almost a million machines coming back to us in terms of auto support data every single night. About 2.3 trillion data points for the last three years, eh? So we're looking to make that data that we've gotten into meaningful consumable information for them. That's actionable. So again, again, what can we see in a virtual environment, not just 10 tree things in terms of storage of those kinds of things, but maybe what patches they have installed that might be affecting a network driver, which might affect the certain configuration and being able to expose and and give them some actionable ways to go take care of those problems. >> All right, we gotta go marry. I'll give you. The last word >> stated simply if you are using virtual, is a Shinto abstract infrastructure. As a wayto accelerate your operations, I run the M where, if you have ah 100 virtual machine, 150 virtual machines, you could really benefit from maybe choosing a different way to do that. Do infrastructure. I can't say the competition doesn't work. Of course, the products work. We just want hope wanted hope that folks could see that doing it differently may produce a different outcome. And different outcomes could be good. >> All right, Mario Graham, Thanks very much for coming to the cubes. Great. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you for watching John Troy a day Volante. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching the cube?

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the Cube. It's the Emerald 2019 our 10th year water wall coverage. Three days, two sets, lots of content. Instrument of my co host is Justin Warren. And one of the big stories coming into the show is VM Wear actually went on an acquisition spree. A hold number of acquisitions. Boston based Carbon Black over $2 billion Pivotal brought back into the fold for also, you know, around that ballpark of money on Happy to Welcome to the program. One of those acquisitions, such and Conti, is sitting to my right. He's the co founder of Hana is also a professor at Stanford University. Thank you so much for joining us and joining us. Also for the segment. Shakeri Air, the executive vice president general manager of Telco Edge Cloud at VM Wear, Shaker said, Yes, there's a lot of acquisitions not to play favorites, but maybe this is his favorite. No question about it. All right. Eso such in, you know, boy, you know the Paolo Alto Stanford connection. We were thinking back, You know, the Founders Of'em where, of course, you know came from Stanford. Many acquisitions over the year, including the mega next era acquisition. You know, quite a few years ago, I came out of Stanford. Give us what was the genesis in the Why of Hana. >> It's actually interesting Stanford Connection to So I've been a faculty at Stanford for the last 10 years on dhe. I have seen the SD and moment very close on up front on one of the dirty secrets of S. T M says it makes the netbooks programmable, but someone still has to write the programs on. So that's usually a very complex task on the pieces beyond the company was, Can we use the eye to learn how to program the network rather than humans having to program the network to do management or optimization? So the division really waas can be built? A network that learned how to optimize itself learns how to manage itself on the technology we're building. Is this a pipeline that basically tries to deliver on that for mobile? >> It's great, Sachin, you know, my background is networking and it feels like forever. We've been hooking well. We need to get people from the cli over to the gooey. But we know in today's rightly complex world, whether it's a I or just automation, humans will not be able to keep up with it. And, you know, we know that that's where a lot of the errors would happen is when we entered humans into doing some of this. So what are some of the key drivers that make this solution possible today that, you know, it might not have been able to do done when when one train was first rolling out the first S t n? >> Yeah, talk about it in three dimensions. The one is, Why do we need it today? Right on. Then what is being what is happening that is enabling this today, right? So, apart from what I talked about Stu and I think the other big driver is, the way I like to think about it is that the Internet is going from a means of consumption to a means of control and interaction. So, increasingly, the application to BC driving the next big decade, our very way of controlling things remotely or the network like a self driving car, or be in interacting but very highly rich visual content like E. R. India. So the applications are becoming a lot more demanding on the Net. At the same time, the network is going through a phase off, opening up on becoming disaggregated network complexity is increasing significantly. So the motivation behind the company and why I thought that was the right time to start the company was these two friends are gonna collide with five coming along the applications that are driving five g and then at the complexity increasing our five. So that's why we started the company. What actually is enabling. This is the fact that we have seen a lot of progress with the eye over the last few years. It hasn't really. It hadn't really been applied at scale to networks and specifically mobile that book. So we definitely saw no, actually there, but increasingly, ah, lot of the infrastructure that is being deployed there was more and more telemetry available. There was more and more data becoming available and that also obviously feet this whole engine. So I think the availability of all of these Big Data Technologies Maur data coming in from the network and the need because of these applications and that complexity. I think there's a perfect confluence >> that there's lots of lots of II floating around at the moment, and there's different flavors of it as well. So this machine learning there's Aye aye, sir. When when you say that there's there's a I behind this What? What particular kind of machine learning or a Y you're using to drive these networks? >> This a few different techniques because the problems we solve our anomaly detection off. Then problems are happening in the network predicting how network conditions are going to evolve. For example, predicting what your devices throughput is gonna be the next 30 seconds. We're also learning how to control the knobs in the neck using AI ai techniques. So each of these has different classes of the eye techniques. So, for example, for control we're using reinforcement learning, which is the same technique that Google used to kind of been on alphago. How do you learn how to play a game basically, but area the game you're playing it optimizing the network. But for the others, it's a record of neural networks to do predictions on Time series data. So I think it's a combination of techniques I wouldn't get to wherever the techniques. It's ultimately. But what is the problem you're trying to solve? And then they picked the right technique to solve it, >> and so on that because the aye aye is actually kind of stupid in that it doesn't know what they wouldn't. What an optimized network looks like. We have to show it what that is. So what? How do you actually train these systems to understand? But what is an optimized network? What? How does how does that tell you? Define this is what my network optimal state should be. >> So that's a great question, because in networking like that, any other discipline that wants to use the eye. There's not a lot of label data. What is the state I want to end up at what is a problem state or what is a good state? All of this is labels that someone has to enter, and that's not available axe kid, and we're never gonna be able to get it at the scale we wanted. So one of our secret sauce is if you will, is semi supervised learning but basic ideas that we're taking a lot of domain knowledge on using that domain knowledge to figure out what should be the right features for these models so that we can actually train these models in a scalable fashion. If you just throw it a lot of data any I model, it just does not converge. Hardly constructive features on the other thing is, how do I actually define what are good kind of end state conditions? What's a good network? And that's coming from domain knowledge to That's how we're making I scale for the stomach. >> I mean, overall, I would say, as you look at that, some of the parameters in terms of what you want to achieve are actually quite obvious things like fewer dropped calls for a cellular network. You know, that's good. So figuring out what the metrics need to be and what the tuning needs before the network, that's where Hana comes in in terms of the right people. >> All right, so shake her. Give us a little bit of an understanding as to where this fits into the networking portfolio. You know, we heard no we heard from Patty or two ago. You know what would have strong push? Networking is on the NSX number. Speaks for itself is what's happening with that portfolio? >> No, absolutely. In fact, what we're doing here is actually broader than networking. It's sort off very pertinent to the network off a carrier. But that is a bulk off their business, if you will. I think if you sort of go back and look at the emirs of any any, any vision, this is the notion of having any cloud in any application land on any cloud and then any device connected to those applications on that any cloud side we are looking at particularly to cloud pools, one which we call the Telco cloud and the other is the edge cloud. And both of these fortuitously are now becoming sort of transforming the context of five G. So in one case, in the telco cloudy or looking at their core and access networks, the radio networks, all of this getting more cloud ified, which essentially leads toe greater agility in service deployment, and then the edge is a much more distributed architecture. Many points over which you can have compute storage network management and security deployed. So if you now think about the sort of thousands off nodes on dhe virtualized clouds, it is just impossible to manage this manual. So what you do need is greater. I mean, orders of magnitude, greater automation in the ability to go and manage and infrastructure like this. So, with our technology now enhanced by Johanna in that network portfolio in the Telco Edge Cloud portfolio, were able to go back to the carriers and tell them, Look, we're not just foundational infrastructure providers. We can also then help you automate help you get visibility into your networks and just help you overall manager networks better for better customer expedience and better performance. >> So what are some of the use coasters that you see is being enabled by five G? There's a lot of hype about five short the moment and not just five jail. So things like WiFi six. Yeah, it would appear to me that this kind of technique would work equally well for five g Your wife. I short a WiFi six. So what are some of the use cases? You see these thieves service providers with Toko Edge clouds using this for? Yeah, So I think overall, first of all, I'd >> say enterprise use cases are going to become a pretty prominent part off five, even though a lot off the buzz and hype ends up being about consumers and how much bandwidth and data they could get in or whether five chicken passing preys or not. But in fact, things like on premise radio on whether that is private. Lt it's 40 or five t. These are the kinds of Uschi cases that were actually quite excited about because these could be deployed literally today. I mean, sometimes they're not regulated. You can go in with, like, existing architectures. You don't need to wait for standardization to break open a radio architecture. You could actually do it, Um, and >> so this sort off going in and >> providing connectivity on an enterprise network that is an enhanced state off where it is today. We've already started that journey, for example, with yellow cloud and branch networking. Now, if we can take that toe a radio based architecture for enterprise networking, So we think, ah, use case like that would be very prominent. And then based on edge architectures distributed networks now becoming the next generation Cdn is an example. That's another application that we think would be very prominent. And then I think, for consumers just sort of getting things like gaming applications off on edge network. Those are all the kinds of applications that would consume this sort off high skill, reliability and performance. >> Can you give a little sketch of the company pre acquisition, you know, is the product all g eight? How many customers you? Can you say what you have there? Sure >> it does us roughly three years old. The company itself so relatively young. We were around 33 people total. We had a product that is already deployed with chairman Telcos. So it is in production deployment with Chairman Telco Ondas in production trials with a couple of other tier one telcos. So we built a platform to scale to the largest networks in the world on If I, if I were to summarize it, be basically can observe, makes sense or in real time about every user in the network, what their experiences like actually apply. I modeled on top of that to optimize each user's expedience because one of the vision bee had was the network today is optimized for the average. But as all off our web expedience personalized netbook experiences, not personalized can be build a network Very your experiences personalized for you for the applications, your running on it. And this was kind of a foundation for that. >> I mean, we In fact, as we've been deploying our telco Cloud and carrier networks, we've also been counting roughly how many subscribers are being served up. Today we have over 800 million subscribers, and in fact, I was talking to someone and we were talking about that does. Being over 10% off the population of the world is now running on the lack of memory infrastructure. And then along comes Johanna and they can actually fine tune the data right down to a single subscriber. Okay, so now you can see the sort of two ends of the scale problem and how we can do this using a I. It's pretty powerful. Excellent. >> So So if we have any problems with our our service fighters, b tech support and I love to hear from both of you, you know what this acquisition position means for the future of the places and obviously VM wear global footprint. A lot of customers and resource is. But you know what I mean to your team in your product. >> I mean, definitely accelerating how quickly we can now start deploying. This and the rest of the world be as a small company, have very focused on a few key customers to prove the technology we have done that on. I think now it's the face to scale it on. Repeat it across a lot of other customers, but I think it also gives us a broader canvas to play that right. So we were focused on one aspect of the problem which is around, if you will, intelligence and subscriber experience. But I think with the cloud on but the orchestration products that are coming out of the ember, we can now start to imagine a full stock that you could build a network of full carrier network code off using using remote technology. So I think it's a broad, more exciting, actually, for us to be able to integrate not just the network data but also other parts of the stock itself. And >> it strikes me that this probably isn't just limited to telcos, either. The service providers and carriers are one aspect of this bit particularly five G and things like deployments into factory automation. Yes, I can see a lot of enterprise is starting to become much in some ways a little bit like a tell go. And they would definitely benefit from this >> kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, in fact, that's the basis of our internal even bringing our telco and EJ and I ot together and a common infrastructure pool. And so we're looking at that. That's the capability for deploying this type of technology across that. So you're exactly right, >> Checker want to give you the last word, you know, Telco space, you know? And then, obviously the broader cloud has been, you know, a large growth area. What, you want people taking away from the emerald 2019 when it comes to your team? >> Yeah, I think. To me, Calico's have a tremendous opportunity to not just be the plumbing and networking providers that they can in fact, be both the clowns of tomorrow as well as the application providers of tomorrow. And I think we have the technology and both organically as well as through acquisitions like Ohana. Take them there. So I'm just super excited about the journey. Because I think while most of the people are talking about five D as this wave, that is just beginning for us, it's just a perfect coming together on many of these architectures that is going to take telcos into a new world. So we're super excited about taking them. >> Shaker. Thank you so much for joining against auction. Congratulations and good luck on the next phase of you and your team's journey along the way. Thank you. Thank you for Justin. Warren comes to Minutemen, Stay with us. Still a bit more to go for VM World 2019 and, as always, thank you for watching the Cube.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, everyone. Day three Q coverage here in San Francisco for V emerald. 2019. I'm just for a student, Um, in here with David Lan. Take days free kick off. We have two sets wall to wall coverage. Guys, this is the time where we get to take a deep breath two days under our belts look and reflect on all the news we've covered in a dark to last analysis sessions but also kind of riff on. We got two nights in hallway conversations we learned a lot of the party means do. I learned a lot last night. Dave. I know you. You learned a lots, do you, Thomas? When things that the chatter Certainly twittersphere hashtag the emerald. A lot of action on there, but it's the hallway conversations. It's the party that people have a few cocktails in them day that you start to hear the truth. The real deal comes out, >> No doubt. And and again Jon Stewart, there's real concern over from the from the practitioners we talked to about this acquisition spree. Are they going to be integrated? Are they going to just throw all this stuff at us and keep jamming products and service is down our throats? Or is this going to be a coherent set of solutions that solves our problem? We also had a little little interesting side conversation about, you know, Snowflake, Frank's lumens new company and how basically Frank is bringing back the Pirates from Data Domain and from service. Now Mike Scarpelli is over there. He's a rock star. CFO Beth White is eventually is back over there. And Frank's Lupin. He's the guy who takes companies from, you know, 100 million to a billion, so that's gonna be >> very serious money making him going on there. >> We have been following his career for a number of years now. We watched him take data domain. We watched him pull that that rabbit out of his hat with the sale with net app, and then the emcee swooped in. And then we saw what he did service. Now we've documented this is an individual to watch, you know, >> he's a world class management team member I mean, he's executes. >> Oh, yeah, no doubt. And >> he has >> a formula that's been proven and in time and time again. And to me, the biggest testament salute Min is the success of the continued success of Data Domain. After he left Hey, he really helped clean up the emcees data protection mess. Um, and then the second thing is, look at service now is performance after he left, I haven't missed a beat. And, yeah, John Donahoe, great executive and all, but it's because Frank's Lubin had everything in place and that was a really well run >> dry. And they got a nice little oracle like business model. >> Yeah. No, you're right. They kind of, you know, the big complaint now as well. Your price is too high that Oracle. >> What have you learned? What you hear in the hallways? I mean, a lot of chatter. >> Yes, John, we We've been reflecting back a lot. It's 10 years in 10th year of the Cube here and back here in San Francisco. The new Mosconi, our third show that I've been at this year in Mosconi and we always track year to year. But since it's been what 45 years since we were here for VM World. When I talked to the average vendor. When I talk to you know, the analysts here were like, Oh, thank goodness we're not in Vegas. When I talked to the average attendee, they're like, Oh my God, what happened to San Francisco since last time we were here? It is too expensive. And the experience walking around San Francisco has really not nearly as nice as it might have been five or 10 years ago. And many of them we were talking to, Ah, woman that runs an event that has been Vegas in San Francisco. And she said, Oh, we did in San Francisco and got tremendous feedback. Don't do it there again. Brings back to Vegas both for costs and the enjoyment of being around the environment. >> Where was a shit show here in San Francisco is horrible right now, I got to say to your right eye was walking this morning from my hotel. Literally. A homeless person passed out the middle of the sidewalk. Um, your smells like urine. It's P, and it's It's just I mean, it's really bad this tense now. I mean City of San Francisco is gonna do some. Mosconi, by the way, has been rebuilt. Awesome. So, you know, in terms of the new Mosconi stew, that's a serious upgrade. Hotel rooms are scarce and just the homeless problem. It's just ridiculous. I don't know what they're >> doing. So one of the other big things when I was reflecting coming into here two years ago when VM wear really started down right before the war on AWS announcement, they made a big announcement. IBM because they had sold off the cloud air toe Oh, VH And for two years Oh, VH was a big partner, Talked about that transition, said we handed off this great asset over h isn't here at the show. I was like, Oh, my gosh, you know, that was, you know, such a big story and other companies like New >> 12. That's good. One lets someone who's not at the show and why. Yeah, oh, VH wired to hear >> They aren't here because, well, they've got customers. More of them are in Europe That was supposed to be a big entry into the United States. Obviously, it wasn't as valuable for them to be here, even though I'm sure they're still part of that service provider ecosystem. They have other big one for us, and we've had on the Cube Nutanix. You know, we've had Dheeraj Pandey. First time we had him on was that this show is still the majority of Nutanix. Customers are VM where customers I've talked to lots of Nutanix customers at the event, even part of the analyst event. Some of the customers I talked to were like, Oh, yeah, my hardware stacks Nutanix and amusing NSX. And I'm using other things there. But they are not here. They're not allowed to be at the show. And I >> mean, they were blatantly told they can't come. >> They can't come here. They can't come to the regional things. They can't do the partner things. So that that that relationship is definitely >> from red hat. What kind of presence have you seen from Red s? >> So their number companies like red Hat that they're kept at a lower level of sponsorship. So they're here. They participate, you know. Open shift, of course, is you know, big enemy for cloud native. Lots of open shift runs on V sphere. So many of those companies that are part of the ecosystem, but not the ones that they want to celebrate and put front and forward. So it's always interesting kind of walk around on those. Even Microsoft is an interesting relationship for, you know, decades with the M wear. You know, of course, azure they partner with. But hyper V was long a competitors. So, you know, we understand those competitive relationships >> could be interesting. Stew and Dave on the ecosystem Jerry Chan Day when we just doing my interview yesterday on the other set mentioned that the ecosystem reinvents itself the community. The question now is with Delhi emceeing Del Technologies obviously heard Michael Dell essentially laying out his plan, which is he's got. He's trying to keep people distracted, but the bottom line is going to top people putting together the cloud right well service provider model. So you know, that's what he's gonna be a big impact. VM wear the crown jewel of Del Technologies certainly is looking more and more like It's >> well and yesterday remember the first VM world we did in 2010? It was It was del I mean course and see only the time Who's Del? It was H p Yes, the emcee was there, but it was net app. I mean, everybody could've had equal standing yesterday at the keynotes. It was Project Dimension of V M, where cloud on Delhi emcee and long keynotes >> data protection into the VM were >> also it's It's all very heavily, you know, Jeff Clarke has his his thumb on, you know, the the deli emcee folks pushing that through Veum where Michael is orchestrating the whole thing. Pat obviously is allowing it. I was sitting in the audience Next next, Some folks from Netapp they're like, you know, this kind of a bummer. Calvin Sito from h p e tweeted Wow how to stick it in the face of your ecosystem partners. He then later went on Facebook saying, Hey, I love this ecosystem, so sort of balancing it out because, you know, he wants to be a good, good citizen, but clearly the ecosystem partners who basically brought VM where you know, to the the position where it's in through distribution, our little ruffled. Right now you can't blame him, But at the same time, the mandate is clear. Michael Dell is driving his products and his solutions through VM were period the end. And, you know, if you don't like it, leave >> right. They had such great success with V San and VX rail in that joint product development and go to market. If they can replicate that with a number of other solutions, they get that the synergies. If >> you don't like it, don't leave. That leave is worse than that. They say you don't like it, you know, invited you. But >> how about what Pat said yesterday in the Cube about when they announced on Gwen heavily leaned into V san. He said publicly that Joe Tucci was pissed and I hate her. They were going at it so that so that shows you the change, right? I mean, so so so e m. C. When it owned VM where was very cautious about allowing Veum wears a software company to drive value somewhere Now is just acting like a software company. >> Well, I think I mean, I learned last night's do, um and you can appreciate this. I learned that the top executives of'em where are looking heavily and working hard at understanding and drive them kubernetes cloud native thing because this is not a throwaway deal. This is not a you know, far anything that they are investing. They get their top brass tech execs on kubernetes fto. Two big players job. Ada, Craig McCaw calumnies. We know interviews since day one, but I think the cloud native thing is going to be interesting. And I think it's gonna be evolution. I think there's gonna be a very dynamic road thing's gonna be a series, of course, corrections, but directionally they're all in on. They're going for it, they're not. >> And actually, I had a, you know, good discussion with Chad Attack. It's a good friend of the program now working at GM, where for the first time, but came from AMC worked at Pivotal. He said, culturally, such a gap between VM wear don't have to touch your app, you know, move everything along lifted shift is nice and easy versus pivotal, you know must go completely You know, dual programming, you know, agile everything there, so bridging those because there's multiple paths and the rail pharaoh announcement is that would be cloud native stuff that won't necessarily go to the EMS. We're going to retool V EMS to now be a platform for kubernetes so that they have a few passed to bridge or to build towards the future. Here's the >> answer strategy. Discussion That and Rayo Farrell was now running Cloud native. Think this is just really >> ties in the interesting discussion that I had with some folks was that you've essentially got well, Jerry Chen brought this up last time we had him on it and reinventing because >> we have >> a conversation all the time about this Amazon have to go up the stack. And Jerry Chen made a really he said, Look, it they're not They're not gonna become an e r peace offer company. What they're gonna do is give tools to the builders so that they can disrupt Europea. They can disrupt service. Now they can disrupt Oracle. That's their strategy, at least for now. Okay, so what does that say? I think the strategy discussion inside of'em were and and l is about by whatever clouds gonna be 35 to 50% of the market. Fine. And the cloud native abs. Great. But you got this mission critical. E r p is an example. Database saps that are on Prem. What we have to do is keep them there. So we're going to sell to the incumbents and we're going to give them cloud native tools, toe modernize. Those APS have build new acts on Prem, and that's the that is the collision course that's coming. So the big question is, can the cloud native guys and AWS disrupt that >> huge? I've always said I'm is on and like the way they're coming in, a tsunami is coming in. And who's gonna build that sea wall to stop it right? And that's essentially only hope that these guys have. You look at all the competitive strategy. Was Oracle. Whoever just gotta stop it? You can't like >> the sea >> wall. That's a great building. A sea wall I was, I would say, is Is that you know, they're only hope at this point is to, you know, get in the game because see Amazon is the stack. They're not really moving up the stack. You hear that from Cisco and Dale and other people? That's where it's a game of musical chairs. Right now, the music's you know, there's still a lot of shares left, but soon chairs getting pulled away and Cisco Deli emcee VM, where they're all fighting for these big chairs. And one >> thing >> we talked about yesterday is that VM wears very directional, product driven. Otherwise they pick a direction, is a statement of direction and don't really have a lot of meat on the bone. In the product side, Sister is actually in market with service providers there in market with NETWORKINGS to this no vapor there that's installed basis and incumbent business. You have developers Esso Baton talks about suffered to find data center, suffer defined networking. I mean, come on, Really. I mean, they're getting there, but it didn't have the complete solution. Cisco >> Coming into this week, I expected here a bit more about the progress and all the customers of'em wear on AWS and feel like Vienna actually downplayed the AWS. We know what a strong partnership it is at every Amazon show we go to, and we got a lot of them Now there's a big presence there, and I can talk to customers that are starting to roll out and move there, but it felt like it was David's. You pointed out there are some messaging differences when you talk about multi cloud and how they're positioning it. So, you know, put those >> here Amazon. If your Amazon you're not happy with Microsoft Dell Technologies World The big announcement that was positioned a cloud foundation Although it wasn't a joint engineering, But the press picked it up as though the Amazon deal has been replicated with Microsoft and Google. I mean, you gotta be gotta be hurt if your Amazon >> So I've I've just been taking notes this this event, there's I've noted at least five major points of difference between a W s what they're saying and their philosophy and the anywhere so eight of us. We know they they don't talk multi cloud. They've told their partners, If you're doing joint marketing with us, you cannot say multi cloud aws that reinforce John. We saw this. Steven Schmidt said that this narrative that security is broken doesn't help the industry. Security's not broken, you know, we're doing great. The state of the nation is wonderful. Aws Matt. Not really. I agree. By the way. Uh, that's not the case. I agree with Pat saying Security's broken. It's a do over VM where wants to be the best infrastructure and developer software company. Who's the best infrastructure and software development platform. Eight of us. The M one wants to be the security cloud. Who's the security cloud? Eight of us. And then, uh, they talked about 10,000 cloud data Listeners are those really cloud data centers at Vienna. And the last one was this was a little nuanced Veum was talking about We know about migrating, modernize, lifted ship shift and then modernize The empire's not talking about modernize and then migrate. If you want to. I totally in conflict >> as a collision course. That's got Look, look, look at the data center was Look, it looks like we're going. We're going away, right to the data center. Staying. That's music to Michael Dell's VM. Where's years they live in the Data City? Do you pointed out yesterday? Data Senate goes away. So does begin. Where's business? >> One of things. I'm surprised. I'm wondering you both have talked to some of the service fighter telco pieces of'em, where they're doing that project dimension, which is the VM where stack on del that looks just like outposts on. And I know they had deployments on this for months. If I was them, you know, it's everybody's hearing about Outpost to talk about it, being more like we're already doing it in. This has you in that Amazon ecosystem. It might be a little strong for the Amazon story, but have you been hearing any about that this week? >> I think they keep a lot of cards close to the chest, but it's clear from the announces that they're doing certainly del the VM, where on Delhi Emcee Cloud or whatever it's called, it's not a cloud but their their infrastructure that is essentially a managed service. That's gonna be really strong for I t. People, because I think that the value proposition of going toe i t and saying we have this, you don't need to do anything. It's very strong, I mean, because I didn't want him >> and justified because this the project to mention it is that single, that thinner stack like what we saw on Outpost in the Amazon video, as opposed to Veum, where cloud on AWS, which is the full C i r h d. I stack. >> I haven't heard anything still on >> well, but the conversation I had from from Vienna, where standpoint, they could make money on that manage service. That's why it's the preferred partnership, right? And so that's their part of their cloud play. If you don't have a public cloud, I said this yesterday, you have to redefine Cloud and you have to get into cloud service. And that's what's happening. And that's exactly what's happening. And what I like about what V M where is doing is they are transitioning their model to a sass based model. Now it's only 12 and 1/2 percent of the revenues today. But both pivotal and carbon black are gonna add, you know, ah, $1,000,000,000 next year to that subscription based $3 billion in year two. Um, and so you know, Pat said the other day, I think we could get to 50 50. I don't necessarily think in the near term we're gonna go beyond that. It's not the Adobe >> way could be critical. Critical of'em were in some areas, but I gotta tell you their core strength that they went to a software operators on the data center friend of prices. That's been a great strategy. Focusing on their core building from there is Jerry 10 point out adding other products so their software company, So I think they're really got a good solution. And you? The data shows that people are increasing their spending, John. Just one based on >> that. Because I had a couple of really good conversation with customers, customers that would deploy VCF So they've got the full stack on there. So using H C I, but not necessarily on Dell hardware, could be Cisco Hardware. Could be HB hardware in the like or they're buying NSX. But the virtual ization team owns it, and they get kind of put in. A box storage team says That's not the array I'm used to buy. Well, maybe I'll put a pure storage box and put it in between. The networking team says I'm refreshing my Cisco hardware. You know, we're like, but we have NSX, and it's great. Well, you can use NSX over there. We're going to use a C I over here. So the term I heard from a number of customers is organizations still have hardware to find roles, and they're trying to figure out how to move to that software world. Which hurts me, cause I spent years trying to get beyond silos and helping people you know, move through those environments. And still, in 2019 it's a big challenge. That organizational shift is we know how tough that is. >> So just couple points in the data, because you're right. There are some countervailing trends, though. So, yes, people are spending Maurin VM where in the second half. But at the same time, the data shows that cloud is hurting VM wear spend. So this that's kind of gets interesting. Our containers gonna kill VM where? No, there's no evidence that container's air hurting VM where spend. But there's clearly risks there, you know, as we've talked about who's best position of multi cloud. Well, it turns out three guys with the public cloud are best positioned in multi Google and Microsoft on, and so and then the pivotal thing is interesting, and ties ties all this in so that the data is actually really interesting. It's like you're seeing tugs at both sides, and I think your your notion about the seawall is dead on. That's exactly what they're doing. >> You see that with Oracle's trying to stop jet. I just want they can't win this one to stop Amazon just on the tracks gave great data. Great reporting, Stoop. Good observations. Get all the day that night and parties we're gonna certainly keep doing that. Day three of wall to wall coverage here. You bringing to the insights and interviews here live from the Emerald Twin 19. Stay with us for more after this short break.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum, World 2019 brought to you by the M Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Live Cube coverage of the emerald 2019 were here in San Francisco, California Mosconi North Lobby. Two sets Our 10th year covering the emerald in our 20th year of Of of our seasons of covering Me to be enterprised Tech. I'm Jeffrey Day Volonte student Justin Warren breaking down day to Cube insights segment. Dave's Do You Do You're on Set Valley set this the meadow set because it's got the steamboat chirping birds behind us. Justin, you've been doing some interviews out on the floor as well. Checking the story's out. All the news is out. Day one was all the big corporate stuff. Today was the product technology news stew. I'll go to you first. What's the assessment on your take on the M, where obviously they're reinventing themselves? Jerry Chen, who we interviewed, said this is Act three of'em where they keep on adding more and more prostitute their core, your thoughts on what's going on. >> So the biggest whore I've seen is the discussion of Tom Zoo, which really talking those cloud native applications. And if you break down VM wear, it's like many companies that said, There's the, you know, core product of the company. It is vey sphere. It is the legacy for what we have and it's not going anywhere, and it's changing. But, you know, then there's the modernization project Pacific howto a bridge to the multi cloud world. How do I bridge Kubernetes is going to come into the sphere and do that? But then there's the application world into the thing I've been. You know, the existential threat to VM, where I've been talking about forever is if we sas if I and cloud If I and all the APS go away, the data centers disappear in Vienna, where dominant, the data center is left out in the cold. So, you know, Pivotal was driving down that that path. They've done a lot of acquisitions, so love directionally where towns who's going time will tell whether they can play in that market. This is not a developer conference. We go to plenty of developer events, so, you know, that's you know, some of the places. I see you know, and and still, you know, >> narrator conference. You're right. Exactly Right. And just I want to get your thoughts, too, because you've been blocking heavily on this topic as well. Dev Ops in general, commenting on the Cube. You know, the reality and the reality, Uh, and the reality of situation from the the announcement. That's a vapor. They're doing some demos. They're really product directions. So product directions is always with VM. Where does it? It's not something that their shameful love, that's what they do. That's what they put out. It's not bakery >> company. It's a statement, A statement of >> direction. We were talking hybrid cloud in 2012 when I asked Pet guess it was a halfway house. He blew a gasket. And now, five years later, the gestation period for hybrid was that. But the end was happy to have the data center back in the back. In the play here, your thoughts on >> Yeah. So this conference is is, I think, a refreshing return to form. So, Vienna, where is as you say, this is an operators conference in Vienna. Where is for operators? It's not Four Dev's. There was a period there where cloud was scary And it was all this cloud native stuff in Vienna where tried to appeal to this new market, I guess tried to dress up and as something that it really wasn't and it didn't pull it off and we didn't It didn't feel right. And now Veum Way has decided that Well, no, actually, this is what they and where is about. And no one could be more Veum where than VM wear. So it's returning to being its best self. And I think you >> can software. They know software >> they know. So flick. So the addition of putting predict Enzo in and having communities in there, and it's to operate the software. So it's it's going to be in there an actual run on it, and they wanna have kubernetes baked into the sphere. So that now, yeah, we'll have new a new absent. Yeah, there might be SAS eps for the people who are consuming them, but they're gonna run somewhere. And now we could run them on van. Wait. Whether it's on Silent at the edge could be in the cloud your Veum wear on eight of us. >> David David so I want to get your thoughts just don't want to jump into because, you know, I love pivotal what they've done. I've always felt as a standalone company they probably couldn't compete with Amazon to scale what's going on in the other things. But bring it back in the fold in VM, where you mentioned this a couple of our interviews yesterday, Dave, and still you illuminate to to the fact of the cloud native world coming together. It's better inside VM wear because they can package pivotal and not have to bet the ranch on the outcome in the marketplace where this highly competitive statements out there so you get the business value of Pivotal. The upside now can be managed. Do your thoughts first, then go to date >> about Pivotal. Yeah, as >> an integrated, integrated is better for the industry than trying to bet the ranch on a pier play >> right? So, John, yesterday we had a little discussion about hybrid and multi cloud and still early about there, but the conversation of past five years ago was very different from the discussion. Today, Docker had a ripple effect with Containers and Veum. Where is addressing that and it made sense for Pivotal Cut to come home, if you will. They still have the Pivotal Labs group that can work with customers going through that transformation and a number of other pieces toe put together. But you ve m where is doing a good enough job to give customers the comfort that we can move you forward to the cloud. You don't have to abandon us and especially all those people that do VM Where is they don't have to be frozen where they are >> a business value. >> Well, I think you've got to start with the transaction and provide a historical context. So this goes back to what I used to call the misfit toys. The Federation. David Golden's taking bits and pieces of of of Dragon Pearl of assets in side of E, M. C and V M wear and then creating Pivotal out of whole cloth. They need an I P O. Michael Dell maintained 70% ownership of the company and 96% voting shares floated. The stock stock didn't do well, bought it back on 50 cents on the dollar. A so what the AIPO price was and then took a of Got a Brit, brought back a $4 billion asset inside of the M wear and paid $900 million for it. So it's just the brilliant financial transaction now, having said all that, what is the business value of this? You know, when I come to these shows, I'd liketo compare what they say in the messaging and the keynotes to what practitioners are saying in the practitioners last night were saying a couple of things. First of all, they're concerned about all the salmon. A like one. Practitioners said to me, Look, if it weren't for all these acquisitions that they announced last minute, what would we be hearing about here? It would have been NSX and V san again, so there's sort of a little concerns there. Some of the practitioners I talked to were really concerned about integration. They've done a good job with Nasasira, but some of the other acquisitions that they may have taken longer to integrate and customers are concerned, and we've seen this movie before. We saw the DMC. We certainly saw the tell. We're seeing it again now, at the end where Veum where? Well, they're very good at integrating companies. Sometimes that catches up to you. The last thing I'll say is we've been pushing You just mentioned it, Justin. On Dev's not a deaf show. Pivotal gives VM where the opportunity to whether it's a different show are an event within the event to actually attract the depths. But I would say in the multi cloud world, VM wears sitting in a good position. With the exception of developers pivotal, I think it's designed to solve that problem. Just tell >> your thoughts. >> Do you think that Veum, where is, is at risk of becoming a portfolio company just like a M A. M. C. Watts? Because it certainly looks at the moment to me like we look at all the different names for things, and I just look at the brand architecture of stuff. There are too many brands. There are too many product names, it's too confusing, and there's gonna have to be a culottes some point just to make it understandable for customers. Otherwise, we're just gonna end up with this endless sprawl, and we saw what the damage that did it. At present, I am saying >> it's a great point and Joseph Joe to cheese used to say that overlap is better than gaps, and I and I agree with him to appoint, you know better until it's not. And then Michael Dell came in and Bar came and said, Look, if we're gonna compete with Amazon's cost structure, we have to clean this mess up and that's what they've been doing it a lot of hard work on that. And so, yeah, they do risk that. I think if they don't do that integration, it's hard to do that. Integration, as you know, it takes time. Um, and so I have Right now. All looks good, right? Right down the middle. As you say, John, are >> multi cloud. Big topic gestation period is going to take five years to seven years. When the reality multi cloud a debate on Twitter last night, someone saying, I'm doing multi cloud today. I mean, we had Gelsinger's layout, the definition of multi cloud. >> Well, he laid out his definition definition. Everyone likes to define its. It's funny how, and we mentioned this is a stew and I earlier on the other set, cloud were still arguing about what cloud means exit always at multi cloud, which kind of multi cloud is a hybrid bowl over. And then you compare that to EJ computing, which computing was always going on. And then someone just came along and gave it a name and everyone just went, huh? OK, and go on with their lives. And so why is cloud so different and difficult for people to agree on what the thing is? >> There's a lot of money being made and lost, That's why >> right day the thing I've said is for multi cloud to be a real thing, it needs to be more valuable to a customer than the sum of its pieces on. And, you know, we know we're gonna be an Amazon reinvent later this year we will be talking, you know? Well, they will not be talking multi cloud. We might be talking about it, but >> they'll be hinting to hybrid cloud may or may not say >> that, you know, hybrid is okay in their world with outpost and everything they're doing in there partnering with VM wear. But you know, the point I've been looking at here is you know, management of multi vendor was atrocious. And, you know, why do we think we're going to any better. David, who hired me nine years ago. It was like I could spend my entire career saying, Management stinks and security needs to be, >> you know, So I want to share lawyers definition. They published in Wicked Bon on Multiply Multi Cloud Hybrid Cloudy, Putting together True Hybrid Cloud Multiply Any application application service can run on any node of the hybrid cloud without rewriting, re compiling or retesting. True hybrid cloud architectures have a consistent set of hardware. Software service is a P I is with integrated network security data and control planes that are native to and display the characteristics of public cloud infrastructure is a service. These attributes could be identically resident on other hybrid nodes independent of location, for example, including on public clouds on Prem or at the edge. That ain't happening. It's just not unless you have considered outposts cloud a customer azure stack. Okay, and you're gonna have collections of those. So that vision that he laid out, I just I think it's gonna >> be David. It's interesting because, you know, David and I have some good debates on this. I said, Tell me a company that has been better at than VM wear about taking a stack and letting it live on multiple hardware's. You know, I've got some of those cars are at a big piece last weekend talking about, you know, when we had to check the bios of everything and when blade Service rolled out getting Veum whereto work 15 years ago was really tough. Getting Veum were to work today, but the >> problem is you're gonna have outposts. You're gonna have project dimensions installed. You're gonna have azure stacks installed. You're gonna have roll your own out there. And so yeah, VM where is gonna work on all >> those? And it's not gonna be a static situation because, you know, when I talk to customers and if they're using V M where cloud on AWS, it's not a lift and shift and leave it there, Gonna modernize their things that could start using service is from the public cloud and they might migrate some of these off of the VM where environment, which I think, is the thing that I am talking to customers and hearing about that It's, you know, none of these situations are Oh, I just put it there and it's gonna live there for years. It's constantly moving and changing, and that is a major threat to VM wears multi clouds, >> Traffic pushes. Is it technically feasible without just insanely high degrees of homogeneity? That's that's the question. >> I I don't think it is and or not. I don't think it's a reasonable thing to expect anyway, because any enterprise you have any M and a activity, and all of a sudden you've got more than one that's always been true, and it will always be true. So if someone else makes a different choice and you buy them, then we'll have both. >> So maybe that's not a fair definition, but that's kind of what what? One could infer that. I think the industry is implying that that is hybrid multi club because that's the nirvana that everybody wants. >> Yeah, the only situation I can see where that could maybe come true would be in something like communities where you're running things on as an abstraction on top off everything else, and that that is a common abstraction that everyone agrees on and builds upon. But we're already seeing how that works out in real life. If >> I'm >> using and Google Antos. I can't easily move it to P. K s or open shift. There's English Kubernetes, as Joe Beta says, is not a magic layer, and everybody builds. On top of >> it, is it? Turns out it's actually not that easy. >> Well, and plus people are taken open source code, and then they're forking it and it building their own proprietary systems and saying, Hey, here's our greatest thing. >> Well, the to the to the credit of CNC, if Kubernetes. Does have a kind of standardized, agreed to get away away from that particular issue. So that's where it stands a better chance and say unfortunately, open stack. So because we saw a bit of that change of way, want to go this way? And we want to go that way. So there's a lot of seeing and zagging, at least with communities. You have a kind of common framework. But even just the implementation of that writing it, >> I love Cooper. I think I've been a big fan of committed from Day one. I think it's a great industry initiative. Having it the way it's rolling out is looking very good. I like it a lot. The comments that we heard on the Cube of Support. Some of my things that I'm looking at is for C N C s Q. Khan Come coop con Coming up is what happened with Kay, native and SDO because that's what I get to see the battleground for above Goober Netease. You see, that's what differentiates again. That's where that the vendors are gonna start to differentiate who they are. So I think carbonates. It could be a great thing. And I think what I learned here was virtualization underneath Kubernetes. It doesn't matter if you want to run a lot. Of'em Furat scale No big deal run Cooper's on top. You want to run in that bare metal? God bless you, >> Go for it. I think this use cases for both. >> That's why I particularly like Tenzer is because for those customers who wanna have a bit of this, cupidity is I don't want to run it myself. It's too hard. But if I trust Vienna where to be able to run that in to upgrade it and give me all of the goodness about operating it in the same way that I do the end where again we're in and I'll show. So now I can have stuff I already know in love, and I can answer incriminating on top of it. >> All right, But who's gonna mess up Multi clouds do. Who's the vendor? I'm not >> even saying it s so you can't mess up something that >> who's gonna think vision, this vision of multi cloud that the entire industry is putting forth who's gonna throw a monkey? The rich? Which vendor? Well, screw it. So >> you know, licensing usually can cause issues. You know, our friend Corey Crane with a nice article about Microsoft's licensing changes there. You know, there are >> lots of Amazon's plays. Oh, yeah. Okay. Amazon is gonna make it. >> A multi clock is not in the mob, >> but yet how could you do multi cloud without Amazon? >> They play with >> control. My the chessboard on my line has been Amazon is in every multi cloud because if you've got multiple clouds, there's a much greater than likely chance >> I haven't been. You know, my feeling is in looking at the history of how multi vendor of all from the I T industry from proprietary network operating systems, many computers toe open systems, D c P I P Web, etcetera. What's going on now is very interesting, and I think the sea so ce of the canary in the coal mine, not Cee Io's because they like multi vendor. They want multiple clouds. They're comfortable that they got staff for that si sos have pressure, security. They're the canary in the coal mine and all the seasons lights, while two are all saying multi clouds b s because they're building stacks internally and they want to create their own technology for security reasons and then build a P eyes and make a P. I's the supplier relationship and saying, Hey, supplier, if you want to work with me, me support my stack I think that is an interesting indication. What that means is that the entire multi cloud thing means we're pick one clown build on, have a backup. We'll deal with multiple clouds if there's workloads in there but primary one cloud, we'll be there. And I think that's gonna be the model. Yes, still be multiple clouds and you got azure and get office 3 65 That's technically multi cloud, >> but I want to make a point. And when pats on we joke about The cul de sac is hybrid cloud a cul de sac, and you've been very respectful and basically saying Yap had okay, But But But you were right, Really. What's hybrid would show me a hybrid cloud. It's taken all this time to gestate you where you see Federated Applications. It's happening. You have on prim workloads, and you have a company that has public cloud workloads. But they're not. Hybrid is >> the region. Some we'll talk about it, even multi. It is an application per cloud or a couple of clouds that you do it, but it's right. Did he follow the sun thing? That we might get there 15 years ago? Is >> no. You're gonna have to insist that this >> data moving around, consistent >> security, governance and all the organizational edicts across all those platforms >> the one place, like all week for that eventually and this is a long way off would be if you go with Serverless where it's all functions and now it's about service composition and I don't care where it lives. I'm just consuming a service because I have some data that I want to go on process and Google happens to have the best machine learning that I need to do it on that data. Also use that service. And then when I actually want to run the workload and host it somewhere else, I drop it into a CD in with an application that happens to run in AWS. >> Guys wrapping up day to buy It's just gonna ask, What is that animal? It must be an influence because hasn't said a word. >> Thistles. The famous blue cow She travels everywhere with me, >> has an INSTAGRAM account. >> She used to have an instagram. She now she doesn't. She just uses my Twitter account just in time to time. >> I learned a lot about you right now. Thanks for sharing. Great to have you. Great as always, Great commentary. Thanks for coming with Bay three tomorrow. Tomorrow. I want to dig into what's in this for Del Technologies. What's the play there when I unpacked, that is tomorrow on day three million. If there's no multi cloud and there's a big tam out there, what's in it for Michael Dell and BM where it's Crown Jewel as the main ingredient guys, thanks for coming stupid in Manchester words, David Want them? John, Thanks for watching day, too. Inside coverage here are wrap up. Thanks for watching

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back here on the Cube, we continue our coverage. We're live in San Francisco. Mosconi, North Day to wrapping up Day two of our three days of coverage here, Veum. World 2019 day Volante. John Wall's glad to have you with us here on the Cube. And we're now joined by Kevin Schatz. Camera. Who's the Vice president of service provider Strategy and solutions. A deli. Um, See, Kevin. Good to see this afternoon. Thank you. You as well. And, uh, yeah, Tarazi, Who is the S v p and chief technical officer at Dell Technologies in the heart. Good to see you. Thanks for taking the time to be with us. A couple of telco guys and we've had a lot of telco on and talking about it in terms of progress that you made. This was an area that you got into with a major commitment, some probably three years ago. Kind of bitch market for me then for where you were there on on day one to where you are now today and the progress you've made and maybe the service is that you're about to provide. Yeah, >> sure. So I think if we look over the last three years, our opportunity that we defined early on telecommunications space was the virtual ization, and software to find everything was leaving the data center. And we would see the software to find architecture extend all the way from radio through the core network through the cloud over a period of time. And it started with technologies like network function virtualization. So if we flash back three years ago, where our entire strategy was built on the premise that relationships with the network equipment providers like Nokia and Ericsson, where our primary path to market our primary opportunity, I think what we've realized is we've emerged in this space to a greater detail is that our expertise, our expertise and experience in building I T Networks and Building Cloud has led to the first wave of conversations in the telecommunications industry directly not through the network equipment providers, but that carriers want to engage directly with Delhi emcee for the lessons learned and how did to play. I tr detectors. And now, as we extend towards the edge that they want to engage directly with Del Technologies in terms of how we build cloud architectures. We've had a number of big announcements. Over the last several years. We've announced partnerships and engagements with NTT. We've announced partnerships and engagements with China Unicom. Just in the last three months, we've announced partnerships with our rounds around network EJ out of France and then most recently with 18 C on the automation of EJ infrastructure related to their airship project. I think from a benchmark perspective, it's just been a continued growth opportunity for us and recognition that the more we engaged in, the more we contribute as a productive member of what is a very complex and changing and transforming industry, the more success in relationships that will build, and the more it will translate into opportunity to sell to >> when you think about you have the the modernization of N F. E. For example, as a former technologist inside a large telco, Um, what were some of the challenges? Is it? It's taken a long time. Obviously, when you talk to some of the telcos, they say, Well, you know it affects our infrastructure, but we still get this application mass. I mean, maybe you could add some color and describe for our audience why it's been so challenging. >> Yeah, I think that's an excellent question. Um, going back to my days at Telco on data centers, even S d n and the software defined tools were just beginning to show up. So the biggest challenges where you were basically having toe work with predefined operating system. But he defined hardware. The hardware was not exposed for for GAM ability, the ability to take advantage of it. And then you had to interrogate multiple players of technology in a way where it took significant time, too, not only for software development, but for product development and user experience. Since then, many of those walls have come down, and some of them have come down very hard. When you look at what we're doing, Adele here and we lead for the open networking. Not only do you have the choice of operating system were also pushing hard. Don't new open operating systems for networking like Sonic with Microsoft and bade calm. And then we're taking industry leading steps to expose the silicon chips themselves for four GAM ability. These are all the components that are critical. When you talk about five G, for example, do you really have to have those capabilities? I also would say that the software evolution have made it to infrastructure. The Dev ops and the modern applications we talk about here is also available for infrastructure, which means you really can develop a capability in weeks instead of years and months. Five people can do in amazing parkas. All of this was not possible before, >> so we talked to Shekhar about this in the earlier segment challenges in the telco business. I mean, the one hand you got these quasi monopolies in some cases real monopolies that just chug along and do pretty well. But the same time you got the cost for a bit dramatically coming down, you've got the data growth doing this. You got over the top providers taking advantage of the those those networks, and so new infrastructure allows them to be more more agile. But there's a workforce component to that, and there's a skill set, and that's how they got to transform. I wonder if you could maybe talk about that a little bit. Kevin. >> Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I think when we work within this industry, it's not just a technology conversation. It's the ability to consume an operationalized technology. And I think that comes down to a number of different things, comes down to the processes that exist when it comes down to the skill sets that exists to be able to build these new processes around. And I think if we flash back several years ago, the model of how we build networks was that the team that operated it needed to understand networking. Right now, if you look at the team that needs to operate it, they need to understand networking. They need to understand, compute. They need to understand virtualization. They need to understand AP eyes. They need to be able to script and program. They need to understand some level of data science that they can close a loop in the operational models eventually with a I and machine learning technologies. So I think that the teams that are getting built look very different than the single soul capabilities that they've had in the past, right? These air smaller teams they're more agile teams that can develop and have their own more unique processes in each part of the network. Right? And even if we think about the organizational structures, we've always built vertical organizations. Right? When I had an appliance, that was an e p. C. I had an operations team that was focused on an e p. C. And I even broke that into an S gateway P Gateway and Emma, me et cetera. If we look at the world now, that s Gateway P Gateway. Mm E consists of a server consists of the networking that connects at server consists of a virtual ization layer. It consists of a stack of a software application, and all of those need to be automated, orchestrated program toe work as any PC does. So I think that the skill sets have just really expanded in terms of what's expected, >> and this is really important because the process is used to be pretty well known and hardened, so the infrastructure could be hard, and now it's of every every months, the more the market changes right. What kind of what kind of challenges is that bring to the telco provider? But also to the infrastructure provider. >> Yeah, I actually I have a really good way to describe what I think is happening. We heard it from a lot of our customers and not just tell cause but enterprises. I would say the last 5 to 10 years everybody's been dealing with Hybrid Cloud. The Move to Cloud Waas. The Big Challenge. While this remains a key challenge, a new challenge showed up, which is how to succeed in this new modern software development model. You know, are you able to do to move at that speed, which means you have full stack engineers? Can you develop the app beginning to end? It's not a nightie model anymore. Also, you no longer have an operations team. You really have to have saris who, able with software and also the customer service, changed to a softwood Devyn. So we're starting to hear from a lot of our customers. That's the next journey they really need help with. If you think of infrastructure, those challenges are even bigger, and this is where it's important to lean on technology partners who can help you with that, >> and you hit on five G a little bit ago. You have in your initial statement and we've kind of touched on the impact that it can have in terms of you understanding there. They're going to a transformative time, right? I mean, telcos are with new capabilities, and new opportunities in this whole edge is gonna be crazy. So you've got to you've got I would say some learning to do, but you have. You've got to get up to speed on what their new fundamentals are going to be, right? Yeah, I think that's >> true. I think where you know, we we've understood >> their fundamentals because it's the same transition that the IittIe world's gone through. And to a large degree, that cloud world has gone through. I think that the challenge we've we've been working to break through collectively as an industry is the paralysis at the rate of adoption of new technologies because they're so much change so quickly because we talk about virtualization. And then we're talking about kubernetes. We're talking about cloud native we're talking about Ah, bare Metal Service's. We continue to talk about Micro Micro Service's architectures. We see this progression of technology that's happening so fast in various segments of the industry. I think that the telecommunications industry has been somewhat paralyzed in terms of where do they jump in and which do they adopt and how fast they migrate between them. And which of them can be capable of being hardened to be telco grade and fit into their requirements. That they have for being able to offer regulated service >> is paralyzed because it's just too fast. It's too fast for a big amazed, a big decision to make for big. But but things are evolving too quickly. That's that's It's evolving >> too quickly. And they also sometimes have a concern that they get stuck on a dead end path, right, Because things change so quickly it's Do I jump here? Then here, then here, then here, Then here. Where do I follow a logical path and what we tend to find when we work with the telecommunications industry is that, yes, del technologies can define a strategy. Certainly VM wear and L E. M. C can define our individual strategies. Are operators can define their strategies. But there's just not one strategy for this industry. Reality is, is that when you get when you get together with an ecosystem of partners, and you work at a particular telecommunications company. That is a strategy, and you start from scratch when you go to the next right because they're their ability to consume technology. It's just so different the end game, maybe the same across the board. But the path to get there will look different, >> so every customer's different Get that. But clearly some patterns must be emerging. So my question is, where do you start your sitting down with What are you seeing in terms of common starting points and advice you'd give Thio? >> I think that to Maine has everybody starting with First of all, the physical infrastructure. Compute storage Networking is moving to X 86 model of some sort, which means many, many parts of their infrastructure today that is not based on X 86 needs to transition. So what? Seeing big art piece significant discussions of how you take compute and this new programmable networking and put it everywhere like in thousands of locations. So infrastructure wise, that is a known specific thing to be solved at early stages and given you know, that capability he's we've delivered toward enterprises. We have a lot of tools and capabilities to give them, and the 2nd 1 is that a lot of people are approaching this as a network issue. In reality, it's a cloud decision, not a network. You hurt Shaker, talk about it so the tools capabilities you need to build a cloud is completely different. This cloud may not be genetic cloud it needs to be. It needs to support the defense specific platforms under for they want Cloud, and they needed to support the specific capabilities. So that's the two. A year ago, nobody even could articulate. That was the challenge they were facing. But I would say that's what we are today. >> I would add to that that as we kind of think about the infrastructure and then that cloud decision that there's abstractions that exist between those right at the infrastructure layer, there is the need tohave, an automation system that has the ability to support multiple different cloud platforms that sit on top of it. And that's work that we're doing in the deli in seaside and then secondary to that at the cloud layer. It's the ability to support a multi virtualization environment. Virtual machines do exist and will continue to exist. Kubernetes and cloud native containerized applications do exist and will continue to exist. And the challenge becomes. How do I orchestrate an environment that allows those two exist simultaneously and be layered on top of a common building block of infrastructure? And I think that's really the power that the broader Del Technologies has is that we have all of these entities and capabilities in house. >> How long does this take? A telco toe transform is this decade. Is it? Is it Maur can Obviously certain parts can happen faster. But when when you sit down with with customers and they put together their plans, I mean, what what what's their time horizon? >> So I would argue that we define the first NFI standards and 2012. And if we look globally and even within the vast majority of the Indus story and carriers were somewhere in the 10 to 15% range, yeah, >> yeah, that too compelling. Uh, hey, is that enough? Maybe be a forcing function for making some of those decisions. Are the economics on moving toe X 86 are very compelling. It's 10 times the speed to deploy, and it's a massive order of magnitude and costs. Therefore, it's not something that you could wait on as you continue to build capacity. So that's is forcing the infrastructure decision. The second forcing function is that what five G's starting to look like is not network and wireless, independent from enterprise solutions, you really have to collapse. The single infrastructure you know to offer service is and why it lists embedded on That's another forcing function in terms of enterprises is starting to ask for those capabilities. >> You know, you mentioned X 86 couple times and when you think about the Telco Cloud generically what we're talking about here in the in the commercial cloud not to tell ghost no commercial but the mainstream cloud you're getting a lot of offload, you know, hardware offload alternative processing arm uh, GP use F p g a Z even, you know, custom, a six coming back. You've seen the same thing in the Telco club >> for sure, I think I think if if you look at what we've done over the last several years, we've seen this dramatic shift in almost a pendulum swing away from a six and proprietary hardware towards everything on X 86 I think what we've learned over the last several years at X 86 is a platform that has its value. But it's just not for every work with So we've seen things like network slicing and control, user plane separation and technologies that her first moving user playing very high Io applications back onto smart nicks and F PJs and eventually onto merchant silicon with programmable silicate in the network switches. But I think that even if you look at what's happening in in Public Cloud with things like GPU virtualization, they're still largely virtualized in the time domain, which means that they're used by a particular application for a period of time and then the next application scheduled it in the next application schedule. Is it that doesn't work for network workloads? So I think that what we're finding is we go to this Toko Cloud model, especially with offload in the virtual ization of Acceleration Technologies, is that it's an entire set of problems that just aren't solved in public cloud yet. >> Yeah, I would say, based on experience, the vast majority of network workloads have to be x 86 I definitely think arm cores and GPO offloads will play all at some point in the future. But they that's not the heavy duty that you need to offload those functions because most of these network applications were it. And for custom, a sick. That's very high performance that you know, it has high throughput. Security, built in ability to build service is directly into the silicon. So that kind of transition over time you'll feed. You see a lot of distributed applications, it and container formats all the way at the edge. But that transition to that kind of distributed model from what we are today is probably not possible. And I would argue you'll always have their mics off high performance, high throughput. I mean, think about it. If you're trying to activate 20,000 I ot devices instantly, you really need a high core density, you know, x 86 chip with significant memory. You really worry about the data plane and how much data you can put. So it's better >> we didn't even hit I ot dead. Wait, wait Another day, Another conversation. Hey, thanks for the time. We certainly appreciate it. Been a good show I for you all to write for, sir? Good. Good energy. Good vibes and good business. Thanks for the time We appreciate it. >> Thank you, guys. Thank >> you very much for your time. >> Watching the Cube live coverage Here it Veum World 2019 in San Francisco. Thank you.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back here and live here in Mosconi North. The Emerald 2019 Cube Live coverage on Shopping Day Volante Jr Jr. Who's here? EVP general manager, Telco and Edge of Cloud for Vienna. Where Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. I know you're super busy. We don't have a lot of time. Get right to it. Um five g a big part of the key. No discussion that's gonna enable a whole bunch of Pakal the pregame show pre gaming not even talk about that. Also. Telco on the Edge Computing Big part Michael Dell said, Edges the future Now these air to emerging areas for you guys. What's the positioning? What's the update? >> No, absolutely. I mean, if you look a tw telecom infrastructure. For the longest time, telcos have played a role just as pure basic connectivity providers. And with five g coming on board, they finally have an opportunity to break out of that and redefine the cloud off the future. So for us the big opportunity around five g is not just the better provisioning off like Higher Man With Service is to consumer for voice and data buy the whole set off new enterprise service is that can be provided on top of this five g network. And in order to be able to do that, you really need to go in with a virtualized telco Cloud architecture. Underneath that, and so we are working with carriers globally now preparing them for five G with an architecture that's going to help them deploy. New service is faster for both their consumer as well as enterprise. >> Going to be the white knight at, so to speak. For these telcos because they've been struggling for years over the top and any kind of differentiates service is even in the network layer. Exactly. I've had tons of rack and stack machine, so they're after their well, well stacked up in terms of computer storage. Also connectivity to the edge. That's the back hall. So you have back haul, which is connectivity. Companies that have massive expertise in scale but fumbling in operational cloud natives that >> by not just that, but I also think that having the idea off on application platform that allows them to go and deploy service is faster and then decide whether they're just going to play at the network connectivity level or at the application tear or a full SAS tear. These are all options that are open to them now with this notion off. Telco five G coupled with an NFI and cloud telco cloud infrastructure. Underneath that and never before have they had this option to doing that. And this is now open to them >> and the cloud native is there greenfield for AP supporter having applications on top of it. Exact icing on the cake, right? >> Exactly, Exactly. And so they're all looking at core architectures and then, potentially, their radio architectures now all being opened up toe deploying new service is that are much faster to provisions and then extending that to EJ and >> five G's deploying. So we know it's out there. So it is pre game is Pat, Guzman said. You know, not even an inning Yet in the metaphor of baseball innings, I >> gotta ask you get my phone. That's not that's fake ill. I know it >> did that with four g to >> skeptic e stands for evolution, which is coming soon. >> That's vaporware for tell Coke language. The surface area is going to radically get bigger with this capability. Yeah, security's gonna be baked in. This is the number one concern for io ti. And more importantly, industrial I ot We've been reporting on silicon angle dot com. This is a national security issue because we're under cyber attacks. Town's getting locked out with ransomware critical infrastructure exposed. We're free country, and I want to be free. We don't lock down. So you have security built into this new promiscuous landscape that is called the coyote Edge. Because you wanna have no perimeter. You want the benefits of cloud. But one whole malware is in there. One take over physical device could cost lives. >> Yeah, there's a big concern. Yeah. What's your thoughts? Yeah, No. So I think there >> are two ways of looking at it. One is the way you looked at it in terms of the security perimeter expanding and then us making sure that we have the right level off infrastructure security baked in to enable this to be an easier, manageable security architecture. This is sort of the pitch you heard from Mia Mary, even in the context of our acquisition of carbon black and how we're thinking about baking security into the infrastructure, the other way of looking at this is if you think about some of the concerns around providers off telecom infrastructure today and how there might be or might not be security back doors. This is happening in today's hardware infrastructure. Okay, so in fact, I would argue that a sick software defined architecture, er, actually ends up providing you greater levels of security. Because what you now have is the option off running all of these network functions as secured as software workloads in a policy envelope that you can introspect. And then you can decide what kind of security you want to deploy on what kind of workload. >> That's an innovative approach. But it doesn't change much, really, from an infrastructure standpoint, does it? Or does it? >> No, it does, >> because now, instead of having a hardware box where you have to worry, I mean, if it's a close, hard red box and you don't quite know what is happening there, the question is, is that more secure than a infrastructure radio running the software that you can actually introspect. I would argue that the software defined approach is more secure than having a hardware box that you don't know. >> I would buy the premise that certainly we know that supply chain concerned. You know the speculation Super Micro, which never was proved. >> It doesn't matter who the vendor is or what the country is. It really is a concern in terms of not being able to introspect what has happened Going inside >> for my tea shop. I'm running VM where operating I want developers. So now you're going to tell Coz you revitalize their business model? They had a rule out appy. Now what did you see? That connecting is gonna be connective tissue between >> I'll think about it. I didn't feel goto a telco. We look at really three stakeholders in there. One is I t the second Is there be to be or enterprise facing business and then the 3rd 1 is their core and access network or the CTO. We're now have a value proposition of having a uniform architecture across all three stakeholders with the uniform ability to create applications and drop it on top of each of these infrastructures with the ability to manage and secure these again in a uniform way, not just that, but also make this work well with other cloud infrastructures private, hyper scale, public as well as EJ. >> That's table stakes. You have to do that. These jokers have to operate whatever >> well it is, But it's not. I mean, if you think about what the infrastructure off a tailcoat today is, it's far from that, because it's it's sort of a closed environment. You can't access anything from a telco environment in order to go build an application to it, and it does not resemble anything like any club >> you could enable Telco. Just I'm just kind of thinking connecting the dots here real time in the Cube. If I'm a telco, hell, I'll take that VM wear on a deli and see model. Make me a cloud and I'll sell Cloud Service is to markets that kind of >> it is. Actually it's a very important part of our business model because most telcos would not move their own infrastructure from a network standpoint onto a public cloud. But they are eagerly awaiting the ability to operate their own network as a cloud, and if they can have somebody manage that for them, then that is very much within the >> you're enabling. An increase in the number of cloud service provides potentially the paint on the makeup of the telco tier one tier two tier three size. Pretty much >> potentially. I mean, it's taking an existing operator and having them operate in a more agile way and potentially increasing anew form off a cloud service >> provided telcos wouldn't move into the public cloud because of they want to control. And the cost is that right or it's >> mostly control. It's not about cost. It's about taking What is your sort of coordinating for, ah, packet corps or for a radio network? Yeah, and there is also an angle around competition, I think telcos our what in about the Amazons of the world and the azure eyes of the world potentially becoming a service provided >> themselves. And that's what I wanted to ask you about the business impact of all this discussion you guys were having is, you know, the cost for bits coming down. The amount of data is increasing faster. You got over the top providers just, you know, picking off the telcos. Telcos can't compete their infrastructures of so hardened. Will this all change that? >> Absolutely So. I think that it has the potential to changing all that. I don't think all the telcos will take advantage of it. Some off them might end up being more traditional and sort of sticking to where they were. But for those that are willing to make the leap, I mean, as an example, Vodafone is a customer that has actually gone in with this architecture with us. A. T and T is working with us with the Vela Cloud software from via Mary bringing a new form off branch computer branch connectivity through SD man. So these are all examples of telcos that are actually leading the >> charter. But if they don't lean in, they have this vision there either. Well, it's either because they're protected by their local government or they're going to go out of business. No, I would >> agree. I mean, it's sort of silly from our standpoint to be talking about five G and not thinking about this as the architecture for five, right? I mean, if you only focus on radio waves and your wireless network that's like a part of the problem, but you really need to have the ability to deploy these agile service's. Otherwise, you could get killed by >> the O. T. T. So how do you compete against the competition? What's the business plan that you have? C. Five G? We see that in the horizon that's evolving its evolution, so to speak. Pun intended on edge is certainly very relevant for enterprises, whether it's manufacturing or industrial or just people. Yeah, >> I'd say there are two things. One is a CZ. I'm sure you heard from folks at GM, where our vision is this notion of any any anywhere. We've talked about any cloud at any application that any device. So that becomes one of the strongest different chaining factors in terms of what V Amir can bring. Tow any of our customers compared to the competition, right? Nobody can actually make it really across these dimensions. If you then take that architecture and use that to deploy a telco cloud, we're now making investments that are telco specific that allow the tailcoat than take this and make the most out of it. As an example, we're investing in open stack we're investing in container ization. We just bought a company called Johanna and Johanna essentially allows the operator to go and provide metrics from their radio access networks. Use at that to train a learning engine and then feed that back so that the operator can tune their network to get like fewer dropped calls in the region. So if you combined technology like that with this, any cloud infrastructure that we have underneath that that's the best in class deployment methodology for any. Tell Cho to deploy >> five. Your business model metrics for you internally is get Maur deployments. What stage of development five G certainly is in a certain stage, but you know, edges there. Where is the Progress bar? If you're the kind of oh, >> it's actually mold phenomenally. I mean, every time we have conversations like this, we're moving about further in terms off. How many carriers are deploying on via mare on a telco cloud Architecture? How many subscribers are basically being serviced by an architectural like this? And then how many network functions are being deployed? Two of'em air architecture. So we are over 100 carriers now we are over. We have about 800 million subscribers, or so that about globally are being serviced by a V M Air supported network. On then, we have essentially over 120 network functions that >> are operating on top of you. Usually bring in all the same stuff that's announced that the show that stuff's gonna fold into the operating platform or Joe Chuckles have different requirements. Off course. It's >> both. We take the best of what is there from the sort of overall vehement factory and then as a team. My team then builds other widgets on top that are telco specific. >> How big is your your tam up Terry for you? >> Well, so the best way to look at it as telcos globally spend about a trillion dollars in capital investment and then probably to X that in terms of their operating expenditure over the course off all of the things that they do right? And out of that, I would say probably a tent off that. So if you take about $100 billion opportunity, opens itself up toe infrastructure investment in terms off the kinds of things that we're talking about now, they're not gonna move from like 0 200 of course. So if you take some period of time, I would say good subset off that $100 billion opportunity is gonna open itself up >> to it. This kind of business cases, eliminating that two x factor, at least reducing it. Is that exactly? That's not just that Service is that's, >> ah, cost reduction alternative. But then you have the ability to go deploy. Service is faster, so it's really a combination off both sort of carrot and the stick, right? I mean, the character here is the ability to go monetize More new service is with five G faster. The stick is that if you don't do it, Ortiz will get there faster and your costs off. Deploying your simple service is will increase his >> telcos, in your opinion, have what they have to do to get the DNA chops to actually be able to compete with the over to top OT T providers and be more agile. I mean, it's obviously sort of new skills that they have to bring in a new talent. Yeah, >> well, first and foremost, they need toe get to a point where their infrastructure is agile and they get into a business model off knowing how to monetize that agile infrastructure. So, for example, they could offer network as a service on a consume as you go basis. They could offer a platform as a service on top off that network in order for or titties to go build applications so they can do Rev shares with the forties. Or they could have offer. Full service is where they could go in and say, We are the conferencing provider for videoconferencing for enterprises. I mean, these are all models that >> the great conversation love to do. Your Palo Alto? Yes. Have you in our studio want to do more of a deep dive? We love the serious, super provocative, and it's important Final question for you. Though Pat Sr here on the Cube, lay asked him, Look back in the past 10 years. Yeah, look back in the next 10 years. What waves should everyone be riding? He said three things that working security and kubernetes humans being number one actually promoting convinced everyone for the ride, for obvious reasons, clouded. I get that, but networking Yeah, that's your world. That's changing. Which which events do you go to where you meet your audience out there in the telco because networking is a telco fundamental thing. Sure moving packets around. This is a big thing, >> eh? So far, operator networking related stuff, I would say. I mean the biggest shows that for us would be Mobile World Congress as an example, right? It's where many operators are. But I would also say that when we do our own events like this is the ember. But the movie forums in in Asia packers an example. A lot of the telco conversations I find they are best done one on one before. Yeah, the forums are our forums, but we will goto have one on one conversations or small group conversations >> with our telco customers. Locals Shakaar Thanks for spending. You get a hard stop. Very busy. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me >> here, Sugar Yaar, Who's here inside the Cube bringing down five G, which is still pregame. A few winning something first thing is gonna come up soon, but edges super hot. A lot of telco customers be back with more live coverage of the emerald after this short break

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. We're here. Of'em World 2019. You're watching the Cubans? Our 10th year of coverage at the event. I'm stupid. And my co host this afternoon is Justin Warren. And happy to welcome back to the program. Bob Ghaffari, who's the general manager of the Enterprise and Claude networking division at Intel. Bob, welcome back. Great. Great to be here. Thank you. S Oh, uh, you know, it's a dressing. And I think that last year I felt like every single show that I went to there was an Intel executive up on the stage. You know, there's a way we talked about. You know, the tic tac of the industry is something that drove things. So last year? Ah, lot going on. Um, haven't seen intel quite as much, but we know that means that, you know, you're you and your team aren't really busy. You know a lot of things going on here. VM worldwide. Give us the update since last we spoke. Well, you know, um >> So I think we have to just go back a little bit in terms of how until has been involved in terms of really driving. Just hold this whole network transformation. I want to say it started about a decade ago when we were really focused on trying to go Dr. You know, a lot of the capabilities on to more of a standard architecture, right? In the past, you know, people were encumbered by challenging architectures, you know, using, you know, proprietary kind of network processors. We were able to bring this together until architecture we open source dp decay, which is really this fast packet processing, you know, library that we basically enabled the industry on. And with that, there's basically been this. I want to say this revolution in terms of how networking has come together. And so what we've seen since last year is you know how NSX via Miranda sex itself has really grown up and be able to sort of get to these newer, interesting usage models. And so, for us, you know what really gets us excited is being really involved with enabling hybrid cloud multi cloud from a network perspective. And that's just what really gets me out of bed every day. Yeah, An s >> t n is, I think, gone from that early days where it was all a bit scary and new, and people weren't quite sure that they wanted to have that. Whereas now Stu is the thing, it's people are quite happy and comfortable to use it. It's it's now a very accepted way of doing networking. What have you noticed about that change where people have gone? Well, actually, it's accepted. Now, what is that enabling customers to do with S T. N. >> You know, um I mean, I think what you know S Dan really does. It gives you a lot of the enterprise customers and cloud customers, and a lot of other is really the flexibility to be able to do what you really need to do much better. And so if you can imagine the first stage, we had to go get a lot of the functions virtualized, right? So we did that over the last 10 years, getting the functions virtualized, getting him optimized and making sure that the performance is there as a virtual function. The next step here is really trying to make sure that you know you weaken enable customers to be able to do what they need to end their micro service's and feels. Or do this in a micro segmented kind of view. When and so um and also being in a scenario, we don't have to trombone the traffic, you know, off to be there, be it's inspected or, you know, our load balance and bringing that capability in a way, in a distributed fashion to where the workloads Neto happen. >> Yeah, who you mentioned micro segmentation there, And that's something which has been spoken about again for quite a while. What's the state of play with micro segmentation? Because it some customs have been trying to use it and found it a little bit tricky. And so they were seeing lots of vendors who come in and say We'll help you manage that. What's the state of play with Michael segmentation From your perspective, >> you know, I would say the way I would categorize it as micro segmentation has definitely become a very important usage model. In turn, how did really contain, you know, uh, policies within certain segments, right? So, one you know, you're able to sort of get to a better way of managing your environments. And you're also getting to a better way of containing any kind of threats. And so the fact that you can somehow, you know, segment off, um, you know, areas and FAA. And if you basically get some kind of, like attack or some kind of, you know, exploit, it's not gonna, you know, will go out of that segmented area to to some extent, that simplifies how you look at your environment, but you want to be able to do it in the fashion that you know, helps. Ultimately, the enterprises managed what they got on their environments. >> So, Bob, one of things that really struck me last year was the messaging that VM were had around networking specifically around multi cloud. It really hearken back to what I had heard from my syrup reacquisition on. Of course. Now, Veum, we're extending that with of'em or cloud in all of you know, aws the partnerships they are false, extended with azure, with Google in non premises with Delhi emcee and others. And a big piece of that message is we're gonna be able to have the same stack on on both sides. You could kind of explain. Where does Intel fit in there? How does Intel's networking multi cloud story dovetail with what we're hearing from VM? Where Right, So I >> think >> the first thing is that until has been very involved in terms of being into, um, any on Prem or public clouds, we get really involved there. What were you really trying to do on my team does is really focusing on the networking aspects. And so, for us is to not only make sure that if you're running something on prime, you get the best experience on from but also the consistency of having a lot of the key instruction sets and any cloud and be able to sort of, ah, you know, managed that ballistically, especially when you're looking at a hybrid cloud environment where you're basically trying to communicate between a certain cloud. It could be on Prem to another cloud that might be somewhere else. Having the consistent way of managing through encrypted tunnels and making sure you're getting the kind of performance that you need to be able to go address that I think these are the kind of things that we really focus on, and I think that for us, it's not only really bring this out and, um improving our instructions that architecture's so most recently What we did is, you know, we launched our second generations Aeon Scaleable processors that really came out in April, and so for us that really takes it to the next level. We get some really interesting new instruction, sets things like a V X 5 12 We get also other kind of, you know, you know more of, like inference, analytic inference capabilities with things like Deal Boost that really brings things together so you can be more effective and efficient in terms of how you look at your workloads and what you need to do with them, making sure they're secure but also giving you the insights that you need to be able to make that kind of decisions you want from a enterprise perspective >> steward. It always amuses me how much Intel is involved in all of his cloud stuff when it it would support. We don't care about hardware anymore. It's all terribly obstructed. And come >> on, Justin, there is no cloud. It's just someone tells his computer and there's a reasonable chance there's an Intel component or two Wednesday, right? >> Isn't Intel intelligence and the fact that Intel comes out and is continuing to talk to customers and coming to these kinds of events and showing that it's still relevant, and the technology that you're creating? Exactly how that ties into what's happening in cloud and in networking, I think is an amazing credit to what? To Intel's ability to adapt. >> You know, it's definitely been very exciting, and so not only have we really been focused on, how do we really expand our processor franchise really getting the key capabilities we need. So any time, anywhere you're doing any kind of computer, we want to make sure we're doing the best for our customers as possible. But in addition to that, what we've really done is we've been helped us around doubt our platform capabilities from a solution perspective to really bring out not only what has historically been a very strong franchise, pressed with her what we call our foundational nicks or network interface cards, but we've been eldest would expand that to be able to bring better capabilities no matter what you're trying to do. So let's say, for example, you know, um, you are a customer that wants to be able to do something unique, and you want to be able to sort of accelerate, you know, your own specific networking kind of functions or virtual switches. Well, we have the ability to do that. And so, with her intel, f p g. A and 3000 card as an example, you get that capability to be able to expand what you would traditionally do from a platform level perspective. >> I want to talk about the edge, but before we go there, there's a topic that's hot conversation here. But when I've been talking to Intel for a lot of years out container ization in general and kubernetes more specifically, you know, where does that fit into your group? I mentioned it just cause you know that the last time Intel Developer forum happened, a friend of mine gave a presentation working for intel, and, you know, just talking about how much was going on in that space on. Do you know, I made a comment back there this few years ago. You know, we just spent over a decade fixing all the networking and storage issues with virtualization. Aren't we going to have to do that again? And containers Asian? Of course, we know way are having toe solve some of those things again. So, you >> know, and for us, you know, as you guys probably know, until it's been really involved in one of the biggest things that you know sometimes it's kept as a secret is that we're probably one of the bigger, um, employers of software engineers. And so until was really, really involved. We have a lot of people that started off with, you know, open source of clinics and being involved there. And, of course, containers is sort of evolution to that. And for us really trying to be involved in making sure that we can sort of bring the capabilities that's needed from our instructions, said architecture is to be able to do containers kubernetes, and, you know, to do this efficient, efficiently and effectively is definitely key to what we want to get done. >> All right, so that was a setup. I I wanted for EJ computing because a lot of these we have different architectures we're gonna be doing when we're getting to the edge starting here. A little bit of that show that this show. But it's in overall piece of that multi cloud architecture that we're starting to build out. You know, where's your play? >> Well, so for us, I mean the way that we look at it as we think it starts all, obviously with the network. So when you are really trying to do things often times Dedge is the closest to word that data is being, you know, realized. And so for us making sure that, you know, we have the right kind of platform level capabilities that can take this data. And then you have to do something with this data. So there's a computer aspect to it, and then you have to be able to really ship it somewhere else, right? And so it's basically going to be to another cloud and might be to another micro server somewhere else. And so for us, what really sets the foundation is having a scale will set a platform sort of this thick, too thin kind of concept. That sort of says, depending on what you're trying to do, what you need to have something that could go the answer mold into that. And so for us, having a scaleable platform that can go from our Biggers eons down to an Adam processor is really important. And then also what we've been doing is working with the ecosystem to make sure that the network functions and software defined when and you know that we think sets a foundation to how you want to go and live in this multi cloud world. But starting off of the edge, you want to make sure that that is really effective, efficient. We can basically provide this in a very efficient capability because there's some areas where you know this. It's gonna be very price sensitive. So we think we have this awesome capability here with our Adam processors. In fact, yesterday was really interesting. We had Tom Burns and Tom Gillis basically get on the stage and talk about how Dell and VM we're collaborating on this. Um, and this basically revolves around platforms based on the Adam Process sitter, and that could scale up to our ze aan de processors and above that, so it depends on what you're trying to do, and we've been working with our partners to make sure that these functions that start off with networker optimized and you can do as much compute auras little computer as you want on that edge >> off the customers who were starting to use age because it's it's kind of you, but it's also kind of not. It's been around for a while. We just used to call it other things, like robots for the customers who were using engine the moment. What's what's the most surprising thing that you've seen them do with your technology? >> You know what is interesting is, you know, we sometimes get surprised by this ourselves and so one of the things that you know, some customers say, Well, you know, we really need low cost because all we really care about is just low level. You know, we we want to build the deploy this into a cafe, and we don't think you're gonna be all that the price spot because they automatically think that all intel does is Biggs eons, and we do a great job with that. But what is really interesting is that with their aunt in processors, we get to these very interesting, you know, solutions that are cost effective and yet gives you the scalability of what you might want to do. And so, for example, you know, we've seen customers that say, Yeah, you know, we want to start off with this, but you know, I'm networking, is it? But you know what? We have this plan, and this plan is like this. Maybe it's a 90 day plan or it could be up to a two year plan in terms of how they want to bring more capabilities at that branch and want to want to be able to do more. They want to be able to compute more. They want to make decisions more. They want to be able to give their customers at that place a much better experience that we think we have a really good position here with their platforms and giving you this mix and match capability, but easily built to scale up and do what our customers want. Great >> Bob, You know, when I think about this space in general, we haven't talked about five g yet, and you know, five g WiFi six, you know, expected to have a significant impact on networking. We're talking a little bit about you know edge. It's gonna play in that environment. Uh, what do you hear from Augusta Summers? How much is that involved with the activities you're working through? You know, >> it's definitely, really interesting. So, uh, five g is definitely getting a lot of hype. Were very, very involved. We've been working on this for a while until it's, uh, on the forefront of enabling five G, especially as it relates to network infrastructure, one of the key focus areas for us. And so the way that we sort of look at this on the edges that a lot of enterprises, some of them are gonna be leading, especially for cases where Leighton see is really important. You want to be able to make decisions, you know, really rather quickly. You want to be able to process it right there. Five g is gonna be one of these interesting technologies that starts, and we're already starting to see it enabled these new or used cases, and so we're definitely really excited about that. We're already starting to see this in stadium experience being enabled by five G what we're doing on the edge. There's experiences like that that we really get excited when we're part of, and we're really able to provide this model of enabling, you know, these new usage models. So for us, you know the connectivity aspects five g is important. Of course, you know, we're going to see a lot of work clothes used for G as basically predominant option. And, of course, the standard wired connective ity of I p m pl less and other things. >> I want to give you the final word. Obviously, Intel long partnership. As we know you know, current CEO Pack else under, you know, spent a good part of his, you know, early part of career at Intel. Give us the takeaway intel VM wear from VM 2019. You know, I mean, we've had a >> long partnership here between intel on VM, where we definitely value the partnership for us. It started off with virtual light servers a while back. Now we've been working on networking and so for us, the partnership has been incredible. You know, we continue to be able to work together. Of course. You know, we continue to see challenges as we go into hybrid cloud Malta Cloud. We are very excited to how in terms of how we can take this to the next level. And, you know, we're very happy to be be great partners with them. >> All right. Well, Bob Ghaffari, thank you for giving us the Intel networking update. We go up the stack down the stack, Multi cloud, all out the edge, coyote and all the applications for Justin Warren. I'm stupid. Men will be back for our continuing coverage of the emerald 2019. Thanks for watching the Cube.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to two cubes. Live coverage in San Francisco, California for VM World 2019. I'm John Ferrier, Postal Cuba David Lattin, My Coast, Dave. 10 years covering the BM World Paul Maritz laid out the stack early on. We saw that and watch it go through Its motions now >> remain from the marketing people got a hold of >> that mainframe turned into cloud Now hybrid cloud seven years after we first started about 2012 has been great Our next guest, Paul Falsone, S V. P and general manager of the Cloud Native APS. This is a business unit within VM where that is going to the next level. This is the Act three is Jerry Chen said any of you I talked earlier for VM wears a company. I won't say moving up the staff because there is no stack. It's cloud, right? So its applications on top of operating infrastructure Dev ops going enterprise scale is about developers building APS operating them in scale. This is a big focus of what you're doing. >> It is a dead end of the day. One of my close friend of mine, who's in front of customers all the time, reminds our team constantly that our customers applications matter of the most cause. That's what they used to get in front of their customers with the Dillman teams and the tools they're building the user. Japs come second cause that's what supports the abs. And then the infrastructure comes third zone away. There is that stacks it, but never forget you were at the bottom of the pecking order, if you will, when it comes to ultimately bringing full customer value to our company, our customers, businesses. >> And it's one of the things we've been looking back at our 10 years covering VM where I think you're 13 15 of'em world is that the virtual ization of all very quickly around really optimizing server virtualization really kind of change. The game of one kind of knows that our knows the history there, but it did it without any code changes, too, APs and I think that was a very innovative thing. Now we looking containers and what Kubernetes is bringing to the table. You're starting to get some clear visibility into what's happening and what's possible. Could >> you >> share your vision on what that visibility is that you guys are eyeing for the marketplace in four of'em, where, >> sure, the APP development methodologies are changing, changing more today than they have in the last 20 years. We're seeing ah lot of new concepts and approaches that right now really only accessible to a small percentage of application developers worldwide. We want to try to bring those application development methodologies, practices tools to the mainstream so we can. We can touch the 13 or $14 million.1,000,000 enterprise developers around the world and help the CEOs in their line of business counterparts at our customers get a CZ much productivity out of their development teams as possible. At the end of the day, those APS we're gonna power the next decade of those organizations success or failures with their customers, and so that's becoming a real competitive asset. I've had a number of customer discussions here this week where the primary theme is how me help my developers move faster at enterprise scale, but in a regulated environment in an environment where compliance is is front center >> to big things going on in your world that we covered extensively, honestly, pretty impactful to the Vienna, where portfolio one as open source and hefty oh, acquisition half a billion dollars almost a year ago, about a year left in less than a year, probably was that we close in December last year. So yes, ovary. Just recently we know those guys all people. I mean, I've been covering that for a while, and then I'll see the pivotal acquisition. Just announced a drink from the fire hose. There be doing tons of press briefings, those to impact points, kind of leaving a mark. >> So we've been we've been building up to this. I joined AA Drink them were in 2012 through the Sierra acquisition, but I moved into this role about just about three years ago, and one of the things that we identified early on was, ah, close partnership with Pivotal was going to be essential inside of the Del Technologies umbrella for us to exist in thrive together. And so that's where the idea for P Cass was born. So the combination of V. M. R. R and D with pivotal RND focused on delivering our first community service to our enterprise. Customers we brought helped you in last year. Once they saw what we were doing and thought about the possibility of what would happen if we actually took some of the concepts of communities and p ks and embed them into V sphere, That was, I think, the real ah ha moment for for us and the happier team coming together in the power of what that could enable. But all along the way, we always believed that that was just covering the infrastructure side of the equation. You still needed to get through the making the APP developers productive and efficient in this new infrastructure world and so on to be able to do so on any cloud. And that's where the pivotal piece finally came together last just last month. July Pivotal put out a lot of information in the market around how they're evolving their portfolio to be very cool, bernetti centric, moving forward. And that was a big part about getting all the pieces lined up so that the M word could deliver what we announced this week. The in the town's a portfolio with the component tree for building running in managing modern applications on any club, >> we've kind of come full circle here, predates, and I Sarah, But you guys talking about the stack? Yeah. Paul Moretz. I used to have the whole stack. Ed actually applications up here with Simba. Spring sources around. Exactly. And then you had these when I used to call the misfit toys. Have you had some assets in the M. C as coming in Vienna, where Paul Maritz, Joe Tucci decided, create pivotal as the The platform developed next generation applications. Now it's all come full circle there. So my question is related to that stack and particularly the death part of that stack. This audience is not Deb's not, but increasingly, you've gotta attract that audience. So what's what's your thoughts there? And so >> I think pivotals done a very nice job over the years through the Con Foundry Foundation. The work they've done there through the spring community Spring is at this stage is is arguably the most popular modern Java development environment on the planet. So, you know, we're seeing a tremendous amount of leverage of that of that framework and so between the events of pimples is actively involved in Leeds and their ability to help customers, um teach their enterprise developers how to get the most out of this modern tool kit. We think that there is some wonderful ingredients to a recipe to really scale this thing up in a big way. We way. I also believe that Veum we're still has a lot to learn about what it means to best support enterprise developers and their organizations. And so we are quite a bit in learning mode right now. We're gonna take a lot of lessons from the pivotal team as we as we move forward towards the close and learn a lot more about the team in the culture and their customer engagements. But one of the things I think is is front and center to what pivotal has for customers today is their transformation Service's customers. You've got different groups inside a customer summer looking to build the newest applications. Some of them are just trying to get more operational efficiency out of what they have today. Some of these customers have 12,000 applications in their environments. Um, pivotal has ah set of service is that come in and they help them take their existing monolithic applications and just modernize key components of them so they can operate them more efficiently and reclaim a lot of resources to go do other things. That, I think is probably the lowest hanging fruit for enterprise organizations today. And I'm very, very excited about the service is that pimple has to make available the customers on that front. >> Assad and Jerry Chen, earlier than the other set I was mentioning earlier is a VC now, Greylock, big time to your one. We see former VM Where, uh, guy from 22,003. He also worked on cloud foundries in sight. We ask about the white spaces where starts to thrive in one of the transit is kind of pointing to was have some cummings going public. Some are being bought at sizable numbers, but we rift on. The idea of monitoring was a boring category right now. Observe ability, which is just be monitoring 2.0, you got I pose. You got acquisitions. I mean, major action happening in this observe ability space. I bring this up because that's an area you think, Oh, it's a white space Data opportunities for companies to build service is really points to this cloud. 2.0 application Renaissance And I want to get your thoughts on that environment. What needs to be in place to make that happen? Honestly, pivotals keep for you guys. I get that on Vienna. Where side, but for the ecosystem and for the marketplace, people trying to make careers and or do things What is that cloud 2.0, complexity that need to be abstracted away or >> so The Pepto team had a great Craig and Joe had this great, uh, one liner on kubernetes is all about where the people structure meets the infrastructure. When you think about that, our enterprise organizations have thousands if not tens of thousands of developers all trying to do similar. But a lot of cases different things at the same time, across lots of different cloud infrastructures. On the infrastructure team side, you've got private cloud, you've got hybrid cloud. You've got public cloud environments that you have to get your arms around, monitor, manage, secure and get visibility into. We believe that Carini sits at that perfect layer between the two domains on. This is a big part of why we developed Tom's a mission control. It's just that that perfect layer between the two domains, too, access the company's later and give you full visibility into what all of your developers were doing on every piece of your infrastructure. And we also think that's gonna be a very interesting place for third parties to plug into to gain access to all of the community's clusters that we're helping. Our customers managed across their app landscape to do very interesting things. And so we're really excited about the ecosystem that that project will open up. >> You think this opportunity to start ups in there? >> I do. I do. I think there's a ton of other I mean, think about it just really basic math. Ah, VM based application. When it gets containerized, it has just on the compute side alone. Never mind the networking in the storage site. There are 10 times as many moving parts. A typical containerized EPA's 10 times as many moving parts as avian bay Step. If you think about that applied to the networking layer, you think about that applied to the storage layer, the security layer. You've got 10 times as many points to secure. Now, how do you get your head around that level of complexity As a an operations person, you can't do it. Humans can't do it anywhere. You can't write down your actions. Control this on a pad of paper and know what's what's accessing what anymore, >> Dave. One more question, if I may, on the on the VM container thing, there's a debate or are architectural kind of conversation, and customers are having around when to do containers in three days on bare metal or with V EMS. How do you guys talk to that house? The >> steam going because that was my question. So there was a snarky tweets yesterday. I want to get your reaction to it. And the tweet was during yesterday's keynote. I thought we we launched pivotal so that we didn't have to run containers on V EMS. Now the reality to your point is that people are running containers on bare metal. They're running him on vehement the EMS. I don't have any data, but I wonder if you could comment on that >> so way Probably have a couple of snarky comments of our own on this three share one of the things that put up on stage. Yes, I'll start at the kind of a little little. And I worked my way up at the base layer. The testing we're doing with Project Pacific, which is something we announced this week, which is effectively bringing kubernetes into the heart of the sphere. We're actually using combinations to make the sphere better. We're also going to expose communities to our customers through V sphere, just like we exposed the EMS today. This is a pretty exciting project for the for the company in our early testing of this project, based on the advanced scheduling capabilities of the SX hyper visor take advantage of modern hardware. We're seeing an 8% better performance in a certain test sweet versus what you'd see on bare metal so are ready at the early stages. We're seeing some benefits now take that a step further. The big public college for writers out there if you look at service is like G K on Google. If you look at a ks, uh, recast on Amazon, a cast on his door, every single one of their community service is is run against a virtualized environment, not on a bare metal environment. Why is that? Well, because their customers are using containers in VM, side by side, the flexibility you get out of that virtualization layer. Whether you're a big public cloud provider or your ah smaller enterprise shop running your own data centers, the benefits are proportionate, rather equal on dso >> the narratives off a little bit. What you're saying. What I hear you saying is people use virtualization for a lot of efficiency and scale reasons that's independent of what happens with bearnaise decisions. So if you decide you want to run Cubans on bare metal, go >> to go to town. We think >> if you want to do that, >> you want to do that. But we don't. We actually see a lot of customers who have started down that path. When they go to get to that operational stage, they're realizing they're now dealing with firm where again, they're dealing with Nick drivers again. They're dealing with stuff, and they can easily take that and turn it over to their ops team that's already managing a huge virtualized state and operated with the same tool. >> That's a really a layer thing around round scale. You do the virtual ization for Ryan reasons, and then cos sits on top of it for a whole another reason. >> And the I'd say its operations scale these operations teams need to, you know, just look at the number of announcements we made this week. For an ops team to get their head around all of these new technologies simultaneously is impossible to bring them in one new capability of time into the thing that they're already operating for. That organization is very >> positive. If I understood yesterday, you're claiming better before 8% better performance relative to bare metal. I know that's apples to apples. Or what kind of juicing you're doing on the benchmark >> sex schedule that it chooses it right there. >> I want to ask you about integration and look at it as a quasi. His story of the the industry. You go back to see A with all the acquisitions, right? Historical force it with fusion. Different layer of the stack. I know. Certainly Del did a lot of acquisitions. Some of them work. Some of them didn t m c. Same thing pretty successful. Actually. VM were great engineering. Um, very strong. Go to market on really good acquisitions. My question is on integration with the nice Sarah background, I wonder. I mean, nice. Sarah seems to be very well integrated into the VM. Where platform How is integration The state of integration today within V. M. Where is it a lot easier today because we're living in this AP I economy. What about VM? Wears sort of integration ethos. One of the challenges. I wonder if you could comment and that long. So >> I've been through, uh, to significant integrations of'em where the 1st 1 was with this nice era on. I was on the I was on the incoming side, not the receiving side. The next was with hep Theo. I was on the receiving side, not the incoming side. And so, as coming into this year, back in 2012 Pat was extremely supportive and asked his entire team to be very supportive of getting us integrated quickly and productive. A CZ fastest possible. We were on campus on the via more campus from the next era office within days of the deal closing. That's how efficient Veum work. That's like that's the mindset hammerhead coming into. We were in a building. We were co located with the other networking engineers and product managers. Within the first week on, we were off to the races. That was about 100 20 person company. Hep Ko is about 100% company, Um, about the same efficiency we were consolidating. Offices were bringing them over again, mostly distributed team, but they had a center of gravity. In Seattle. We had a center of gravity in Bellevue. We brought the team's over within within a couple of months in about three months. In three and 1/2 months in, we had the team fully integrated. The organizational design done all the tools in a greater we're all in the same systems. So what happens very quickly now, an organization that's much bigger like like pivotal 3000 employees. Public company takes a little bit longer to get from Deal announced the deal close because it's too public entities. It'll take a little bit longer to do all the integration, but we're already thinking thinking about we know them so well and they know us so well. We already know where the potential landmines are, where the potential rough spots are. Pat prides himself and, uh, this pushes down into the rest of them were on well, welcoming new team members in new groups into the company. And so we try to do that really were very culturally sensitive way optimized for the right tool kit s O that we take, we take some learning like cloud health. When they came in, they had a lot of expertise around. SAS drooling and support of customers were adopting all of that, right. Were jettisoned some of our older tools in favor of some of the things that >> we're gonna win the modernization. So I want to get your thoughts on the last question for the second congratulations, your your your area. We love what you're doing. We think it's super important. Would be covering it like a blanket this year and going forward. But Pakistan came on was wrapped. Talking about 10 years and doing the riffing on the Cube are 10 years covering it. We have some 10 years forward, which waves to be on. They highlighted on the past 10 years in this ear acquisition as a critical moment to bring VM. We're into the S T D C kind of concept started networking up, so we know the history they're sti n and then going forward, he says. If you're not a networking and security in the next wave and Kubernetes is Number one, you're really gonna be missing out. So we highlighted networking, security and kubernetes. But networking. It's nice here on both sides of that 10 year spectrum. You're part of that. >> Why is that? Why is that wise >> watching people know that networking is the most important piece of the wave here? What's the relevance of what he's saying? Share their thoughts on >> Think about the increasing complexity of what at modernization drives into the infrastructure. You're getting smaller and smaller moving parts that that need to operate together at scale in a comprehensive, logical way. But at any point in time, if you're if you're an enterprise organization, if you've got if you've got compliance requirements, audit ability, requirements. If you want to protect, you hear about the number of of small towns that get blackmailed on a daily basis because someone's secured an encrypted There, there, there count taxpayer data and they're there, their victims. All right, this is this >> is some say, cyber warfare. >> It is something. So if you think about in orderto help, our customers get the most out of their developers, these tools that open up I think the potential of a lot more avenues of attack get a lot more complex. And so we think that these two have to progress hand in hand. One. We do want to help developers go as fast as possible. We won't help enterprises get the most out of those developers. That's a big part of why we brought them were into into the damn warfare. We're bringing a pivotal into the VM. We're family, but at the same time, we recognize that the infrastructure has to progress. Every bit is fast, and the network is the thing that ties all these parts together. Whether it's a layer three year layer for networking today or level layer several networking layer seven AP I based networking in the future >> all. I mean, I'm not gonna bring up I ot or industrial i ot to takeovers of physical devices, whether it's a self driving bus off a cliff or taking over towns and cities warfare, I mean the service areas of enormous networks, Internet connectivity applications over the cloud native. Anyway, we know that, right? So a lot to talk about. Thanks for coming on. The Cube Sharing your insight. Senior Vice President, General manager, The Cloud Native APS Group. This is really the key instrument with envy em where to take kubernetes and the advancement of cloud to 0.0 to the next level. I'm John for a day. Volante, be back after this short break.

>> lie from San Francisco celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage here in San Francisco, California, for VM World 2019. I'm Jeff Davis Davis, our 10th year, 10 years covering the M world. Quite a run. Got a great stories. More stories coming, Emma days. A lot of organic growth. A lot of typos in the startup scene. Our next two guests Mike Adams, CIA Director bm wear and Ziv Kalman. Oh, vich product line manager here. Welcome to the Cube. Great to see you. Yes, Curtsy to you guys. Got a lot of activity happening around bit fusion. A lot of news to share. Exciting. I mean, in the M. And a story has been high on VM. Where we talking back? Elsie earlier. Continue to fill in on the strategy. >> Yeah, absolutely. Give us the update. Yeah, I think the key thing for us is we really want to become a key player in the A. I am l space and say that those workloads should come on visa. And with this acquisition we think, provides a great framework for a lot of the hardware accelerator devices. The best of you known of those his GP use. But we think there's four coming market with PG A's and also custom a six. So we're super excited about that. >> For the folks that don't know much about the acquisition, what was the motivation? What was the company's core product? What was the interest? Yeah, the >> company had a product called Flex Direct, and that particular product was really focused on taking, ah, similar concept that a lot of V m writes No, which was, Hey, we knew that computes space. We were trying to take these isolated islands and pull them together. Same type of thing. Here you had these expensive devices that people were buying and they were isolated. And now if we could take a single server, it's got a bunch of GP use on it. Why don't we share it? You see all these papers that come out around machine learning at the very end. It says she's I'm amazed that thes GP user so underutilized even when we're actually using them. It's kind of like buying a car and then using the radio only right? Doesn't. It just doesn't make sense. I >> got this trend of alternative processors just sort of exploding all over the place. I mean, obviously in video, sort of people know what's going on there, but but you've got arm. Now you've got the edge coming in, you know, Intel. Still dominant in the server space. But even even storage devices today use different type, not in the not Intel processors in there. It's a combination of our mo are Sometimes you know, G. P uses you say F g a Z, even though they're sort of a narrow use case. You're seeing a six make a comeback. So you got all this additional processing power, you know, going. So that's a tailwind. Absolutely, guys, and it's sort of the intersection of those to maybe talk about some of the trends you see in that regard and how you're taking advantage of them. >> Yeah, it reminds me of many moons ago when we had new chips that were coming out. We said, Jesus, hardware, flurry here, right? And now we're in a really similar spot. Ziv and I see a lot of different types of devices and acceleration devices, whether it's computer network or storage. And in this particular case, right, we just see a hotbed of all these customers that air seeing the same problem, right? And we've got great partnerships with Intel you mentioned in video and and many others. And we just want to really leverage those for these devices because you look at V sphere and say, OK, your traditional workloads. We've done those very, very well. But as we get into containers, KUBERNETES, machine Learning and I, we want these newer cloud native and newer workloads to come our way. And taking advantage of these new capabilities really helps accelerate that in a big way. >> Could you >> explain Maur on the the sphere impact? Because, you know, first of all, of'em, where community you get the feedback right away on Twitter and a lot of things. But sometimes you gotta dig in and find out what people are thinking and where there might. I think that could be future up opportunities or because it meets skepticism. Well, the the sphere native having a eye on the sphere, that's just mind blowing to me. But I mean, I can see I can see a data processor kind of vibe going on here where data needs to be processed. That seems to be a trend. What is it going on with the sphere with this? Is there what's the what's to customers? No. >> Well, I think the first thing to clarify here is that, you know, some often there is this question. Why would Iran m Ellery I work? Look specifically envy. Sphere is a platform. But then customers do run Emily and workers and public clouds. And those layers are not that different than the spirits virtualization layer, and they're running it in virtual machines. So the whole idea would be fusion specifically, is it? Actually, we can make it even more efficient to run these workloads on top of the sphere because the underlying infrastructure that you two actually, you have to accelerate these workloads there. Today they are mostly GP use, obviously, but in the futures, Michael so mentioned you a six are coming in and effigies are coming in. We are going to make those as well. That's the plan using the B fusion framework. Be more efficient to use. A lot >> of people are skeptical around running machine learning on these are not skeptical because, I mean, it's great for any time you have the opportunity to automate something or used software to make something go away. That's not the difference. You're undifferentiated, so it makes sense. But I just can't figure out where, specifically, within these fears of being targeted to use >> where envy sphere as in, Well, >> if I'm operating the sphere on top operator, I got Debs kicking around the corner. I got a cloud Mom reclaiming. Where's this fit in? Where >> this fits into essentially any place for a visa is running. It doesn't matter if it would run on via MacLeod and for any other for cloud partnerships or on the the edge of our Vesey runs. This is a core capability of the sphere, so it doesn't matter. You know where physically or infrastructure is, we would be able to expose this technology. The idea is also that you mentioned the trends in the A six as they're coming into the enterprise. There's an architectural changes also coming in, and in the server perspective, it's just it's the servers are actually getting more dense there, in there, in there in the accelerator infrastructure that they have in them. So you're seeing four to a GP using a single server. Those are very powerful machines. You can just move oil, represent a single machine again. That brings us back to be fusion and descend. The segregated model affects territory used, which is very similar by the way to centralize stories use. >> You guys are on something really big here. I think that hardware assists off load anything. Hardware system, harbor off load is gonna be a more of a bigger trend. And we saw it happen big time and hyper converge just for storage and everything. But I think as you want to stack where kubernetes gonna flourish? Yeah. I mean, imagine all the service is that he turned on Turned off. I mean, that's not I mean, men even know when it gets turned on or off. >> Absolutely offload for awhile with things like a raise, right, trying to push processing off to a bigger ray that you've got there. And then one other thing you said that I think was really important is the audience, right? If you look at a i n m l, we have traditionally haven't talked to the data, scientists of the machine learning folks. And we need to get to the I t. Folks that air supporting those workloads saying similar to some other workloads that were new and saying these were gonna come your way. And so we need to be prepared and you need to be able to leverage. So >> what's the What's the pitch to those folks? What's that? What's what you guys saying to them? Because it is a benefit for Debs and Dev Ops is to have an ops right. You got the ops down. Okay, see that and this change happening. But a dev, What's the pitch? But how do you get their attention? What's the value proposition? >> The the Actually, that's the beauty of it. It's exactly the same bottle proposition that the sphere in Vienna, where the Vienna state provides the developers and the only thing is that now we are letting the the office people to actually provide this doing this infrastructure as well in the same efficient manner. So it's your transformation. Basically, it's giving the exact same value proposition. >> Talk about the multi cloud tie in here. We've heard a lot about multi cloud and I think multi cloud in part anyway, is being able to run any application and workload anywhere. And one of things about your technology is the ability to not have to rewrite the application to take advantage of acceleration. Does it fit into multi cloud? And if so, how? >> Yeah, when we made the bet Fusion acquisition, if you look at their story, they had the any any any story as well, just like we do. And so, you know, we made announcement this week within video and eight of us and VM, where it's definitely possible of the technology that we have to extend that even further. And so, you know, the only thing I know with users going forward is they're gonna have more than one cloud, and so we just need to prepare for that and make sure that it works. And it works well across the board and the common layer. When you look at our multi cloud strategy is vey sphere is going to be at each of those layers. So if it's ties in disease here, it should be pretty easy to make it work in each of those environments. >> What was that What was the announcement you made you share? The big >> one was being able to use in video in the context of cloud in AWS. So's GPU capabilities and bring it to the service as we do on Prem. And so that was a big piece. And then we also obviously, in making that announcement talking about Hey, you know, this is a critical area for us because not only are we doing this, but we're also saying that your bit fusion will help enhance this because we think in video and bit fusion work very well together as well. >> And is that a product of service? Ah, go to market initiative. >> In the case of the coordinated us, it would be offered as part of the service. So when you can consume the compute, you know you want a GPU, it'll be there for you to help run that workload in the cloud. >> And that's available. When >> that's an nvidia in AWS kind of question. When they are making that infrastructure available, it's essentially going to be a nun. In another instance, type that the ember cloud in AWS will offer okay, I >> mean, it's a tech preview. >> What if some of the things that people should know about because again, in the pattern I'm seeing here of'em world is as in love to stack with kubernetes being that abstraction layer that guessing eyes promoting heavily on rightfully so. We're big fans communes with that for the beginning is that you're gonna have this this purpose built, um, native capability so that when you guys got this native vibe going on native to hype the sphere native TSX native, what does that actually mean? Native like Cooper, naked native on I. But what does it native mean? Explain to the audience what that actually means. >> I'll start up. Sure. You could >> elaborate 30 minutes if you want. But what is that >> true native native? The idea >> for us was used kubernetes really two ways. You know, most of the time when we were talking about Cooper Naser Containers, it's running that on top of these Fair right? What happens if you could take the DNA of that and put it actually inside of east here? Right, so not only you could run these clusters and native pods, but you could also leverage some of the value and one of the things that Cubans does really well is it handles workloads really well. So if we take an example where we have 145 e ems and they make up your app, right, normally you'd have to go to each one of those and figure out OK, let's make some changes in tweaks. And now what I can do is I can treat all of those is one workload and I can move them. I could do really interesting things with that. And that's the power one of the powers that you have with Kubernetes. >> And that's where the differentiation. Then you don't think that there's a >> Yeah, exactly. I mean you are essentially getting There are a lot of benefits our customers, our values value that the customer is getting today from V Sphere, generically speaking, and our longtime customers are familiar with the value propositions. And what we are saying is that when you're getting something as a native capability is that essentially ties into all the other capabilities that you already were know very well and you will be able to get those. But with on top on, sometimes on top orbit in conjunction with what >> is that gonna enable? Now let's talk about the enablement. >> So let's go back all the way. If you go all the way back to be fusion, for example, if you enable it is a native technology, then if you're running containers or viens on the sphere natively they can consume to be fusion technology. If you have cool, it is. It can orchestrate natively, the PM's and containers that are using the confusion to collision. Excited. Oh, so this is the whole thing, >> more efficient platform standpoint, >> and it's easier to manage as well, because you don't have to install a bunch of stuff on top of each other because it's needed. It's part of the first. >> A lot of hassle go away that people might >> take it in and you're gonna have to guess tomorrow they're going to go deep into it with >> you. Great, we're excited. So we're hearing a lot, obviously, but kubernetes at this event and and but most of the audience, they're not developers. So how can you use the sort of bit Fusion mojo to attract developers for some of these new workloads, that air come into the marketplace? >> Yeah, I mean it's all about acquiring new audiences in a case of infusions. More the data scientists. In the case of the communities, it's more around the developer. But I think let's use the kubernetes examples as a good one and what we announced with Project Pacific. Basically, the way it looks, the technology looks to them. It'll look like the kubernetes, a p I with a little bit of east for goodness from the operator perspective, the people that we know the 20,000 that are here, it looks to them like the sphere was from kubernetes Goodness. So that's the right mix is you've got to get it. So it looks exactly the smells and feels just like what they're used to. And I think that's a that's a key aspect. And then for the data Scientists with fusion, we really need to say Okay, you know you want to run these workloads, but she's you're paying really a lot of money for these expensive, isolated devices, and you could get more value by kind of grouping them up and making sure that they're used kind of in aggregate, right? >> So there's more leverage on the data science side So if I'm say hiring someone I know I'm or more to work with with >> exactly, essentially, it's it's the same story. They don't need to change their applications, their framework. Their models use the same could interface, which is the GPU interface for for the GPS computer. >> So So let's talk about that. So data scientist, you know, they always complain that most their time is spent wrangling data That's their, you know, bugaboo. And then there's a collaboration between data scientists and developers, which probably doesn't happen enough. What are you seeing in terms of the trends from the data science role? And can you help solve some of those problems? >> Well, what we are about to solve is really access access to infrastructure for them. Easy access to the infrastructure in their software stack. And the way to get there is to make the data engineers that serve these data scientists and the application administrators that surges data scientist to get easy access to the infrastructure Dany to provide the software, and that's where the sphere eventually comes in. So it's not the Celia direct relationship with the end users. It's more enabling the entire organization that actually served these end users and let them use as much infrastructure as your partners. And >> that and that and user organization. The buffer >> guys last question share what the plans are. What's next? What's your goals for the next 6 to 12 months? I'll see. Get the acquisition under your belt. Native in these fear, a lot of other cool things. I mean that I could talk about >> customers and maybe you can talk about product from a customer perspective. You know, we want engage in proof of concepts. So we want to bring them in, let them test out the software. It already works with the beast here, so I'll be running with multiple proof of concepts across the globe. We >> use cases in the U. S. Case or what? >> Yeah, I mean, it's it's pretty simple at the moment. It seems to be most people that are using GP use around ml. We have a great demo down the floor that shows people trying to run inception, three year resident 50 And how can we actually help those v EMs that are running that? So that's gonna be my focus. The next six >> years you want get some use cases come over here, bring him up to Mike. >> And from that perspective, I mean, obviously, we acquired occasion in an early stage. The technology works well. It works well enough to be product eyes. However, Veum, wherein the sphere has very high enterprise software stone standards in terms of security and management and governance. All this capabilities so that's going to be are focused on the next, you know, even almost a year to make sure that we bring it up to a level where we can confidently provide it and sell. It is a product >> you gotta engineering hye bar there absolutely thanks to Russia coming on keeping the update, the end world coverage Breaking it down. 2019. It's the Cuba job for David. Thanks for watching Be back with more after this short break.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. We're here at V Emerald 2019 in the lobby of Mosconi north, back in San Francisco, where it all began. 10th year of the Cube covering VM world. I'm stupid and my co host is John Troyer. Expensive time working for Vienna, where he's been doing the kid with us now for over three years. It was Veum world that we brought in the first time. >> I believe I was working with you on the other side. That that here >> absolutely and welcoming. First back to the program. One of our cube alumni, Rawlinson Rivera, who's the CTO of the global field at Cohesive E. Thanks for joining us again. My pleasure, man. Always excited when we get to talk to Ah, customer is a customer and a service provider. Brock Marie, who's the chief technologist at? Whoa, >> Correct. Thanks for having. >> All right. So we're gonna get Tau Whoa in a second, cause really want to dig in an interesting name? I'm sure you guys have some fun with that, I would hope. But Rawlinson, first of all, you know Veum world always big celebration back in San Francisco celebration. But 10 years of the Cube to you know, what's it all mean to you? >> Amazing. The fact that I've been here a couple of times now it's great. It's a good, great way to put a stamp on my existence. He would be able to >> Yeah, you know, amazing ecosystem and lots of ah ah, as we said, we just had Jerry chain on. It's the deviant where? Mafia. I'm sitting here with two former VM where employees do so even when they've left their still tight with a lot of going on there. All right, Brock, you've been to this event Ah, a few times before we get into Whoa, Just tell us, You know, what does the world mean to you? >> Soviet world is obviously it's a huge networking event. You get Thio not only see your peers, but also other players in the industries and be able to evaluate their products and see what they have. >> All right, so tell us a little bit about Whoa. >> So what dot com was founded in 2013 we ah, tout ourselves as a cyber secure cloud platform. Ah, we've done more than just stand up TVM where bits for hosting we've actually integrated some threat protection and some network defense items. Uh, around that infrastructure. >> All right, give us a little bit of the Brett. You know, how many locations? Verticality. All that kind of. >> So our headquarters is in Hollywood, Florida. We have a data center presence in Miami, a data center presence in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and one and switch LV in Las Vegas. So that gives us coverage over the United States. All >> right, I've toward one of those facilities. You probably amazing facility. So, uh, >> yeah, well, can you tell us a little bit about what was business? And I'm in particular interested in being a service provider in 2019 right? A lot of noise about the big public clouds. But as the folks here at B M, where no, there's trillions of dollars flowing through a nightie ecosystem that, you know, some of it's going to the public cloud. But there's lots of need for service providers. Providing specialty service's or hands on service is or I'm kind of curious. What is your business? What is your business and like, how does it intersect with data, Which is where we're getting to hear? >> Yeah, absolutely. So with our focus on compliance, that's really one of the major differentiators from us with the hyper scale Er's or the Big three is a lot of people like to call them, um that gives us the ability also to tune and make sure that their workloads are precise and running the way that they want with the security models around them. Uh, plus, it's the you know you got, you could reach out and you can contact us. We pick up the phone, we support all of our customers. Uh, we love to go above and beyond and make sure that they're happy. So we want to kind of give them that that boutique type feel and be able to provide. The service is out. >> We're talking verticals like, >> yes. Oh, health care is a big one. Obviously, um and then there's, you know, huge requirements around that for data protection and ah, data isolation and so forth. Um and also, you know, on the cyber security side, cyber scan the new release from these guys is something that we're definitely foaming at the mouth to get at it. Something that we're ready to put into play because it's it's a value, add back to our customers and having their product in that position gives us an advantage, >> right? Rawlinson. He teed you up. But you know, in general, you know, we know where cohesive He has played in the enterprise on what's been happening. A lot of the environment gives a little bit of the landscape for the service providers and where cohesively plays. We know that that's you know, it's been a great no only customer, but almost a channel for many technology in the space for a number of years. Well, you >> know, we have our own sort of like division within the Coast, just with sports writer of market. What we doing, we're enabling them to provide their customers with the value that we gave our enterprise customers already so opening up more than just the backup, right? So one of the things that rock mentioned is this new capability. Have a performing scans for vulnerability scans within the systems. When have you ever been able to do that on something that just sits there and it's just an insurance policy in the past. Now we can give you the ability to provide your customers ability to look into their data whether there have a vulnerability or not in place and tell him before they do it. Did you want to restore this? You wanna protect it with X amount of vulnerabilities. You want to fix it before you do it, And that kind of level of service is being provided. It delivers in immense value to customers everywhere. All >> right, So is this the first product that uses a few city or have you been using other >> s? So we obviously we dove in headfirst with data protection? Um, our previous data protection product wasn't living up to, ah, up to its claims. And that sparked us to go out and start looking at other vendors. And it actually happened at the end world. A few years ago, I came across Cohesive E, uh, worked with their guys. We did a POC. Um, we attacked some of our major pain points right off the bat, and cohesive handled it without any problems. >> I'm kind of curious. So we're talking about a second secondary storage platform. You know, uh, backup is is a use of it, But once you live in the world now we don't. We still put something, the things on tape, but okay, the bits are live there on a disk somewhere, and back them up. So as an example of this for the security scans, some of this ransomware stuff can lie dormant for months before turning on. So it's not a matter of like, Oh, I've just restored the backup from last week. You may have to go search through the all your your your checkpoints. Right. So that's an example of how having a secondary storage platform really enables a lot of security. So that's my with my understanding. Several out, maybe. Tee you up. Can you talk about data? The secondary storage data platform in general And security is one aspect. Data protection is another. I don't know. >> I mean, that's right. Yeah. The thing about what we do is that we as a data management platform, which was kind of getting falling into that there's many fastest to managing with data. We started with the data protection piece. Now we adding other value to the areas which is just pointed out. There's a lot of dark data that you don't get to see because of description of silos, and >> I >> don't really use that Now. We have the ability to provide that value that everyone else on the service provider business can leverage because now they have. Like you said, I have to go look through all these different generations of that protection job that I'm doing now. We do that instantaneous. We do that at the core. So now you're able to identify and report on that and be able to correct it before you have to go through that process, which is which is incredible. Now, if that's on the data protection side, we also have the ability of using. You can use cohesive as a file if they want to do that. Now we're talking to live information that can access the same suite of capability and tools, are there and can report the same way. >> Yeah, if I can add to that to one of the one of the really cool features that I that I like that Cohee City does is when you're using filer service is and things like that. You still have the ability to protect that data as well. So you can replicate those snapshots out to other locations and so forth. So ah, we found that was, ah, pretty good benefit for us. We have a configuration management platform that we ended up putting amount on one of those servers, and we want to protect that in our other location. And this is our own internal operations. So we leverage the platform is well, we protect that data by replicating into another Geo >> Brock. Connect the dots for us. We understand us pain points. But what is this colucci city solutions that you're using mean for your ultimate end user customers >> Confidence, That's, you know, knowing that when that backup report comes in and hits their inbox, that all of those jobs are gonna be successful. And ultimately, what that turns into is when they need that data back, they need to restore it. It's going to be there for them, all right? >> Anything you'd add about the impact on the customers when you're working with service providers, any kind of broader discussion of the service writers. >> I mean, it's great the things that we do because now we're not only typically we enable our enterprise customers to do this. Now we're neighbors and our service providers to enable their customers to do that as well. And you know what? We just we just in the background. It's their business, right? They're the ones who are providing the service, making a service for for the customer based on what they need. And it is good for us to kind of enable that and let them do what they need to. They would just make money, make money, protect their money and make more money. >> Brock, I'm kind of curious you and your your customers, right? A lot of talking vigil, transformation at agility. We've all gotta make money. We've all gotta move fast, and I'm guessing you know it again. In an ecosystem where there are very big players and very small players, part of you still have to move fast, and your customers expect you to be delivering News Service's and reliable service is et cetera. Can you maybe just talk a little bit about kind of what your customers are looking for? Uh, you know how the relationship goes with, Maybe with a with a provider like like you have a team And will he see building healthy? You know, how fast can you turn on the service is how fast is that ramp up in? Maybe with the >> Sure so. And it's funny because I've actually been having some other conversations on how we can improve the existing workflow. Ah, but the workflow has been, uh, not, um, we've had to re architect a couple of network items to be able to, ah, to facilitate external backups. For example, being a service provider, I don't just back up the EMS within my environment. I backup PM's in customers environments as well. So laying the foundation to be ableto have these. Ah, these units replicate between each other, eases that path and and again it comes down to revenue. The faster I can get that box coming in, the faster that I can realize revenue on the product. >> A lot of discussion in this show about some of the future things you know, the emerging, where is talking about container ization and building communities into Evie's fear, talking about their multi cloud connectivity that they're having. I know the City's got a strong play partnering with all the public cloud environment. Give us look out as toe. How does that impact your business? Where do you see that going from your roadmap standpoint? >> Absolutely. So, uh, with with the cohesive platform, especially with the, uh, the big three hyper scale er's, for example, we're actually looking at a way to put our long term storage out on that out on those service is we'll keep our short term storage internal or on Prem wherever the customers scenario might be. But we want to leverage that that long term storage so that we don't have to manage that data over a seven year period. We do manage it. We'll ever do your guys tools to be able to do it, but it's in a hyper scaler. I don't need to worry about it. >> And to add to that were also as a Zvi, Ammar moves alone and catches on the wave of the Cuban. Any journalist after we also do that already so we can actually provide protection of name spaces for for the kubernetes environment, something you'll start seeing, you'll see we released very soon. So we already given the short stories provides the ability to compete with the hyper scale is providing those newer cloud Native service is they need to be. You have available for them to know we're gonna make that would enable that for everyone. Still haven't we would offer it universal. >> Well, actually, that that brings up a question Brock hour in terms of being cloud native. Either you, you guys spending up more service is more cloud native APS or your customers. And I'm not sure if they're building off if they're bringing off the shelf APS to you or if they're building custom maps. I mean, where do you see the evolution of this hole field in terms of Dev Ops and Cloud Native? >> Definitely. So Cloud Native is ah, is a very interesting architecture play, especially with the micro service's and dynamically building machines on the fly. And things like that is very, very exciting. Very intriguing. Um, our workloads tend to be more traditional vm type workloads. Uh, I have been having conversations with customers, technical groups. Hey, you guys should start looking at Micro service. Is this is something you guys can improve your guys. Your service delivery with um, we haven't gotten there yet. We're using some container service is internally for our own operations, but externally, we're still trying to, you know, part of the digital transformation. Work with your customers to provide them >> solutions. All right, Brock, when you know one of the things we come to this show, we always get. Okay, great. Here's where we are today. Here's where we going tomorrow. Usually have a wish list, you know, we know service fighters. Yes. If you could make it a little cheaper, you know, we need to be able to pass those margins, you know, down to our customer. What? What's on your wish list? What would make you know your company's life easier? >> Ah, well, cohesive. He's done a very good job of that already, so ah, again, you know, having confidence in your backups and being able to sleep at night is definitely huge. Um, so on my wish list, I like the direction they're going with the integration and, ah, lot of the workbench products and so forth. Honestly, I don't have a ton of wish list. I'm more sitting back watching what these guys are gonna come out with because cyber scans, one that actually came out of left field for me. And, um, this >> is awesome. What I think is interesting about these these architecture is that there are this this app layer that they that they're now introducing that Yes, there's kubernetes there, but it's a lot of APS. Data service is that are very close to the data. I don't know what What do you guys have in store? What are you talking about here at the show in terms of new service is because it's now you just containerized it. You, Doc, arise it and stick it in your thing and your your plane. And it's there on the on the device that >> the focus for us has basically continue to deliver value on the platform that people only thought it was data protection. It's way more than that. He has he comes availability scanners being one of them, but also opening the platform for customers and cell service providers. You know what you need. You know what service? If you need to create a developed for what you need to do, do it and put it on us. Do not move the date away from where where is safely stored, located, bring the application to it. That eliminates risks of, you know, data leakage and all these kinds of things that you have a secure, centralized, scalable everything you want. It's all in place. >> Yeah, I think it's a great point. You know, when when the company first came out, it's like, Okay, well, here's the product at the day. But Mohit is building a platform that is his history, and that's not what he's doing. And I know that's what excited a lot of people in the early days. And as you said, your data management platform now. So we know we're now actually are, at least at the early stages of where the company is going with the overall solution. >> Your moments very methodical. He decided to go one way, one thing at a time, right? We're not a Swiss army knife. We're not gonna Well, the ocean we come out, we master the one thing that was the most painful so far. Data protection. We fixed back up, and now we're going to give you the rest of what you get from the platform after we master that. All >> right? I want to give you the final words. You've been going through this journey now for a few years when you talk to your peers, What advice would you give than anything you've learned along the way? Is that all? It's great, But boy, I wish I could have shortcut. Certain things were, you know, planned something a little bit different. You know what learning is gonna share? >> Eso definitely plant plan your deployments. You know, there's there's some new features and new items that are coming out. But, you know, again, one of the great things about you he city you have a virtual ization of the E series. Go in there and break it on the V E Siri's and then deployed on your hardware. >> All right, >> Brock and Rawlinson Thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate all the updates and congratulations on the progress we've been making for John Troyer. Arms to Minuteman. Back with lots more coverage at the midpoint of three days. Walter Wall coverage two sets 10th Year of the Cube at VM World 2019. Thanks as always, for watching