>>From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and E T R. This is breaking analysis with Dave Valante. >>Making technology predictions in 2022 was tricky business, especially if you were projecting the performance of markets or identifying I P O prospects and making binary forecast on data AI and the macro spending climate and other related topics in enterprise tech 2022, of course was characterized by a seesaw economy where central banks were restructuring their balance sheets. The war on Ukraine fueled inflation supply chains were a mess. And the unintended consequences of of forced march to digital and the acceleration still being sorted out. Hello and welcome to this week's weekly on Cube Insights powered by E T R. In this breaking analysis, we continue our annual tradition of transparently grading last year's enterprise tech predictions. And you may or may not agree with our self grading system, but look, we're gonna give you the data and you can draw your own conclusions and tell you what, tell us what you think. >>All right, let's get right to it. So our first prediction was tech spending increases by 8% in 2022. And as we exited 2021 CIOs, they were optimistic about their digital transformation plans. You know, they rushed to make changes to their business and were eager to sharpen their focus and continue to iterate on their digital business models and plug the holes that they, the, in the learnings that they had. And so we predicted that 8% rise in enterprise tech spending, which looked pretty good until Ukraine and the Fed decided that, you know, had to rush and make up for lost time. We kind of nailed the momentum in the energy sector, but we can't give ourselves too much credit for that layup. And as of October, Gartner had it spending growing at just over 5%. I think it was 5.1%. So we're gonna take a C plus on this one and, and move on. >>Our next prediction was basically kind of a slow ground ball. The second base, if I have to be honest, but we felt it was important to highlight that security would remain front and center as the number one priority for organizations in 2022. As is our tradition, you know, we try to up the degree of difficulty by specifically identifying companies that are gonna benefit from these trends. So we highlighted some possible I P O candidates, which of course didn't pan out. S NQ was on our radar. The company had just had to do another raise and they recently took a valuation hit and it was a down round. They raised 196 million. So good chunk of cash, but, but not the i p O that we had predicted Aqua Securities focus on containers and cloud native. That was a trendy call and we thought maybe an M SS P or multiple managed security service providers like Arctic Wolf would I p o, but no way that was happening in the crummy market. >>Nonetheless, we think these types of companies, they're still faring well as the talent shortage in security remains really acute, particularly in the sort of mid-size and small businesses that often don't have a sock Lacework laid off 20% of its workforce in 2022. And CO C e o Dave Hatfield left the company. So that I p o didn't, didn't happen. It was probably too early for Lacework. Anyway, meanwhile you got Netscope, which we've cited as strong in the E T R data as particularly in the emerging technology survey. And then, you know, I lumia holding its own, you know, we never liked that 7 billion price tag that Okta paid for auth zero, but we loved the TAM expansion strategy to target developers beyond sort of Okta's enterprise strength. But we gotta take some points off of the failure thus far of, of Okta to really nail the integration and the go to market model with azero and build, you know, bring that into the, the, the core Okta. >>So the focus on endpoint security that was a winner in 2022 is CrowdStrike led that charge with others holding their own, not the least of which was Palo Alto Networks as it continued to expand beyond its core network security and firewall business, you know, through acquisition. So overall we're gonna give ourselves an A minus for this relatively easy call, but again, we had some specifics associated with it to make it a little tougher. And of course we're watching ve very closely this this coming year in 2023. The vendor consolidation trend. You know, according to a recent Palo Alto network survey with 1300 SecOps pros on average organizations have more than 30 tools to manage security tools. So this is a logical way to optimize cost consolidating vendors and consolidating redundant vendors. The E T R data shows that's clearly a trend that's on the upswing. >>Now moving on, a big theme of 2020 and 2021 of course was remote work and hybrid work and new ways to work and return to work. So we predicted in 2022 that hybrid work models would become the dominant protocol, which clearly is the case. We predicted that about 33% of the workforce would come back to the office in 2022 in September. The E T R data showed that figure was at 29%, but organizations expected that 32% would be in the office, you know, pretty much full-time by year end. That hasn't quite happened, but we were pretty close with the projection, so we're gonna take an A minus on this one. Now, supply chain disruption was another big theme that we felt would carry through 2022. And sure that sounds like another easy one, but as is our tradition, again we try to put some binary metrics around our predictions to put some meat in the bone, so to speak, and and allow us than you to say, okay, did it come true or not? >>So we had some data that we presented last year and supply chain issues impacting hardware spend. We said at the time, you can see this on the left hand side of this chart, the PC laptop demand would remain above pre covid levels, which would reverse a decade of year on year declines, which I think started in around 2011, 2012. Now, while demand is down this year pretty substantially relative to 2021, I D C has worldwide unit shipments for PCs at just over 300 million for 22. If you go back to 2019 and you're looking at around let's say 260 million units shipped globally, you know, roughly, so, you know, pretty good call there. Definitely much higher than pre covid levels. But so what you might be asking why the B, well, we projected that 30% of customers would replace security appliances with cloud-based services and that more than a third would replace their internal data center server and storage hardware with cloud services like 30 and 40% respectively. >>And we don't have explicit survey data on exactly these metrics, but anecdotally we see this happening in earnest. And we do have some data that we're showing here on cloud adoption from ET R'S October survey where the midpoint of workloads running in the cloud is around 34% and forecast, as you can see, to grow steadily over the next three years. So this, well look, this is not, we understand it's not a one-to-one correlation with our prediction, but it's a pretty good bet that we were right, but we gotta take some points off, we think for the lack of unequivocal proof. Cause again, we always strive to make our predictions in ways that can be measured as accurate or not. Is it binary? Did it happen, did it not? Kind of like an O K R and you know, we strive to provide data as proof and in this case it's a bit fuzzy. >>We have to admit that although we're pretty comfortable that the prediction was accurate. And look, when you make an hard forecast, sometimes you gotta pay the price. All right, next, we said in 2022 that the big four cloud players would generate 167 billion in IS and PaaS revenue combining for 38% market growth. And our current forecasts are shown here with a comparison to our January, 2022 figures. So coming into this year now where we are today, so currently we expect 162 billion in total revenue and a 33% growth rate. Still very healthy, but not on our mark. So we think a w s is gonna miss our predictions by about a billion dollars, not, you know, not bad for an 80 billion company. So they're not gonna hit that expectation though of getting really close to a hundred billion run rate. We thought they'd exit the year, you know, closer to, you know, 25 billion a quarter and we don't think they're gonna get there. >>Look, we pretty much nailed Azure even though our prediction W was was correct about g Google Cloud platform surpassing Alibaba, Alibaba, we way overestimated the performance of both of those companies. So we're gonna give ourselves a C plus here and we think, yeah, you might think it's a little bit harsh, we could argue for a B minus to the professor, but the misses on GCP and Alibaba we think warrant a a self penalty on this one. All right, let's move on to our prediction about Supercloud. We said it becomes a thing in 2022 and we think by many accounts it has, despite the naysayers, we're seeing clear evidence that the concept of a layer of value add that sits above and across clouds is taking shape. And on this slide we showed just some of the pickup in the industry. I mean one of the most interesting is CloudFlare, the biggest supercloud antagonist. >>Charles Fitzgerald even predicted that no vendor would ever use the term in their marketing. And that would be proof if that happened that Supercloud was a thing and he said it would never happen. Well CloudFlare has, and they launched their version of Supercloud at their developer week. Chris Miller of the register put out a Supercloud block diagram, something else that Charles Fitzgerald was, it was was pushing us for, which is rightly so, it was a good call on his part. And Chris Miller actually came up with one that's pretty good at David Linthicum also has produced a a a A block diagram, kind of similar, David uses the term metacloud and he uses the term supercloud kind of interchangeably to describe that trend. And so we we're aligned on that front. Brian Gracely has covered the concept on the popular cloud podcast. Berkeley launched the Sky computing initiative. >>You read through that white paper and many of the concepts highlighted in the Supercloud 3.0 community developed definition align with that. Walmart launched a platform with many of the supercloud salient attributes. So did Goldman Sachs, so did Capital One, so did nasdaq. So you know, sorry you can hate the term, but very clearly the evidence is gathering for the super cloud storm. We're gonna take an a plus on this one. Sorry, haters. Alright, let's talk about data mesh in our 21 predictions posts. We said that in the 2020s, 75% of large organizations are gonna re-architect their big data platforms. So kind of a decade long prediction. We don't like to do that always, but sometimes it's warranted. And because it was a longer term prediction, we, at the time in, in coming into 22 when we were evaluating our 21 predictions, we took a grade of incomplete because the sort of decade long or majority of the decade better part of the decade prediction. >>So last year, earlier this year, we said our number seven prediction was data mesh gains momentum in 22. But it's largely confined and narrow data problems with limited scope as you can see here with some of the key bullets. So there's a lot of discussion in the data community about data mesh and while there are an increasing number of examples, JP Morgan Chase, Intuit, H S P C, HelloFresh, and others that are completely rearchitecting parts of their data platform completely rearchitecting entire data platforms is non-trivial. There are organizational challenges, there're data, data ownership, debates, technical considerations, and in particular two of the four fundamental data mesh principles that the, the need for a self-service infrastructure and federated computational governance are challenging. Look, democratizing data and facilitating data sharing creates conflicts with regulatory requirements around data privacy. As such many organizations are being really selective with their data mesh implementations and hence our prediction of narrowing the scope of data mesh initiatives. >>I think that was right on J P M C is a good example of this, where you got a single group within a, within a division narrowly implementing the data mesh architecture. They're using a w s, they're using data lakes, they're using Amazon Glue, creating a catalog and a variety of other techniques to meet their objectives. They kind of automating data quality and it was pretty well thought out and interesting approach and I think it's gonna be made easier by some of the announcements that Amazon made at the recent, you know, reinvent, particularly trying to eliminate ET t l, better connections between Aurora and Redshift and, and, and better data sharing the data clean room. So a lot of that is gonna help. Of course, snowflake has been on this for a while now. Many other companies are facing, you know, limitations as we said here and this slide with their Hadoop data platforms. They need to do new, some new thinking around that to scale. HelloFresh is a really good example of this. Look, the bottom line is that organizations want to get more value from data and having a centralized, highly specialized teams that own the data problem, it's been a barrier and a blocker to success. The data mesh starts with organizational considerations as described in great detail by Ash Nair of Warner Brothers. So take a listen to this clip. >>Yeah, so when people think of Warner Brothers, you always think of like the movie studio, but we're more than that, right? I mean, you think of H B O, you think of t n t, you think of C N N. We have 30 plus brands in our portfolio and each have their own needs. So the, the idea of a data mesh really helps us because what we can do is we can federate access across the company so that, you know, CNN can work at their own pace. You know, when there's election season, they can ingest their own data and they don't have to, you know, bump up against, as an example, HBO if Game of Thrones is going on. >>So it's often the case that data mesh is in the eyes of the implementer. And while a company's implementation may not strictly adhere to Jamma Dani's vision of data mesh, and that's okay, the goal is to use data more effectively. And despite Gartner's attempts to deposition data mesh in favor of the somewhat confusing or frankly far more confusing data fabric concept that they stole from NetApp data mesh is taking hold in organizations globally today. So we're gonna take a B on this one. The prediction is shaping up the way we envision, but as we previously reported, it's gonna take some time. The better part of a decade in our view, new standards have to emerge to make this vision become reality and they'll come in the form of both open and de facto approaches. Okay, our eighth prediction last year focused on the face off between Snowflake and Databricks. >>And we realized this popular topic, and maybe one that's getting a little overplayed, but these are two companies that initially, you know, looked like they were shaping up as partners and they, by the way, they are still partnering in the field. But you go back a couple years ago, the idea of using an AW w s infrastructure, Databricks machine intelligence and applying that on top of Snowflake as a facile data warehouse, still very viable. But both of these companies, they have much larger ambitions. They got big total available markets to chase and large valuations that they have to justify. So what's happening is, as we've previously reported, each of these companies is moving toward the other firm's core domain and they're building out an ecosystem that'll be critical for their future. So as part of that effort, we said each is gonna become aggressive investors and maybe start doing some m and a and they have in various companies. >>And on this chart that we produced last year, we studied some of the companies that were targets and we've added some recent investments of both Snowflake and Databricks. As you can see, they've both, for example, invested in elation snowflake's, put money into Lacework, the Secur security firm, ThoughtSpot, which is trying to democratize data with ai. Collibra is a governance platform and you can see Databricks investments in data transformation with D B T labs, Matillion doing simplified business intelligence hunters. So that's, you know, they're security investment and so forth. So other than our thought that we'd see Databricks I p o last year, this prediction been pretty spot on. So we'll give ourselves an A on that one. Now observability has been a hot topic and we've been covering it for a while with our friends at E T R, particularly Eric Bradley. Our number nine prediction last year was basically that if you're not cloud native and observability, you are gonna be in big trouble. >>So everything guys gotta go cloud native. And that's clearly been the case. Splunk, the big player in the space has been transitioning to the cloud, hasn't always been pretty, as we reported, Datadog real momentum, the elk stack, that's open source model. You got new entrants that we've cited before, like observe, honeycomb, chaos search and others that we've, we've reported on, they're all born in the cloud. So we're gonna take another a on this one, admittedly, yeah, it's a re reasonably easy call, but you gotta have a few of those in the mix. Okay, our last prediction, our number 10 was around events. Something the cube knows a little bit about. We said that a new category of events would emerge as hybrid and that for the most part is happened. So that's gonna be the mainstay is what we said. That pure play virtual events are gonna give way to hi hybrid. >>And the narrative is that virtual only events are, you know, they're good for quick hits, but lousy replacements for in-person events. And you know that said, organizations of all shapes and sizes, they learn how to create better virtual content and support remote audiences during the pandemic. So when we set at pure play is gonna give way to hybrid, we said we, we i we implied or specific or specified that the physical event that v i p experience is going defined. That overall experience and those v i p events would create a little fomo, fear of, of missing out in a virtual component would overlay that serves an audience 10 x the size of the physical. We saw that really two really good examples. Red Hat Summit in Boston, small event, couple thousand people served tens of thousands, you know, online. Second was Google Cloud next v i p event in, in New York City. >>Everything else was, was, was, was virtual. You know, even examples of our prediction of metaverse like immersion have popped up and, and and, and you know, other companies are doing roadshow as we predicted like a lot of companies are doing it. You're seeing that as a major trend where organizations are going with their sales teams out into the regions and doing a little belly to belly action as opposed to the big giant event. That's a definitely a, a trend that we're seeing. So in reviewing this prediction, the grade we gave ourselves is, you know, maybe a bit unfair, it should be, you could argue for a higher grade, but the, but the organization still haven't figured it out. They have hybrid experiences but they generally do a really poor job of leveraging the afterglow and of event of an event. It still tends to be one and done, let's move on to the next event or the next city. >>Let the sales team pick up the pieces if they were paying attention. So because of that, we're only taking a B plus on this one. Okay, so that's the review of last year's predictions. You know, overall if you average out our grade on the 10 predictions that come out to a b plus, I dunno why we can't seem to get that elusive a, but we're gonna keep trying our friends at E T R and we are starting to look at the data for 2023 from the surveys and all the work that we've done on the cube and our, our analysis and we're gonna put together our predictions. We've had literally hundreds of inbounds from PR pros pitching us. We've got this huge thick folder that we've started to review with our yellow highlighter. And our plan is to review it this month, take a look at all the data, get some ideas from the inbounds and then the e t R of January surveys in the field. >>It's probably got a little over a thousand responses right now. You know, they'll get up to, you know, 1400 or so. And once we've digested all that, we're gonna go back and publish our predictions for 2023 sometime in January. So stay tuned for that. All right, we're gonna leave it there for today. You wanna thank Alex Myerson who's on production and he manages the podcast, Ken Schiffman as well out of our, our Boston studio. I gotta really heartfelt thank you to Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight and their team. They helped get the word out on social and in our newsletters. Rob Ho is our editor in chief over at Silicon Angle who does some great editing for us. Thank you all. Remember all these podcasts are available or all these episodes are available is podcasts. Wherever you listen, just all you do Search Breaking analysis podcast, really getting some great traction there. Appreciate you guys subscribing. I published each week on wikibon.com, silicon angle.com or you can email me directly at david dot valante silicon angle.com or dm me Dante, or you can comment on my LinkedIn post. And please check out ETR AI for the very best survey data in the enterprise tech business. Some awesome stuff in there. This is Dante for the Cube Insights powered by etr. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on breaking analysis.

>>Good evening, brilliant humans. My name is Savannah Peterson and very delighted to be streaming to you. Live from the Cube Studios here in Motor City, Michigan. I've got John Furrier on my left. John, this is our last interview of the day. Energy just seems to keep oozing. How >>You doing? Take two, Three days of coverage, the queue love segments. This one's great cuz we have a practitioner who's implementing all the hard core talks to be awesome. Can't wait to get into it. >>Yeah, I'm very excited for this one. If it's not very clear, we are a community focused community is a huge theme here at the show at Cape Con. And our next guests are actually a provider and a customer. Turning it over to you. Lisa and Jake, welcome to the show. >>Thank you so much for having us. >>It's great to be here. It is our pleasure. Lisa, you're with Cockroach. Just in case the audience isn't familiar, give us a quick little sound bite. >>We're a distributed sequel database. Highly scalable, reliable. The database you can't kill, right? We will survive the apocalypse. So very resilient. Our customers, mostly retail, FinTech game meet online gambling. They, they, they need that resiliency, they need that scalability. So the indestructible database is the elevator pitch >>And the success has been very well documented. Valuation obviously is a scorp guard, but huge customers. We were at the Escape 19. Just for the record, the first ever multi-cloud conference hasn't come back baby. Love it. It'll come back soon. >>Yeah, well we did a similar version of it just a month ago and I was, that was before Cockroach. I was a different company there talking a lot about multi-cloud. So, but I'm, I've been a car a couple of years now and I run community, I run developer relations. I'm still also a CNCF ambassador, so I lead community as well. I still run a really large user group in the San Francisco Bay area. So we've just >>Been in >>Community, take through the use case. Jake's story set us up. >>Well I would like Jake to take him through the use case and Cockroach is a part of it, but what they've built is amazing. And also Jake's history is amazing. So you can start Jake, >>Wherever you take >>Your Yeah, sure. I'm Jake, I'm CEO and co-founder of Offset. Oted is the commercial entity behind Spice Dvy and Spice Dvy is a permission service. Cool. So a permission service is something that lets developers and let's platform teams really unlock the full potential of their applications. So a lot of people get stuck on My R back isn't flexible enough. How do I do these fine grain things? How do I do these complex sharing workflows that my product manager thinks is so important? And so our service enables those platform teams and developers to do those kinds of things. >>What's your, what's your infrastructure? What's your setup look like? What, how are you guys looking like on the back end? >>Sure. Yeah. So we're obviously built on top of Kubernetes as well. One of the reasons that we're here. So we use Kubernetes, we use Kubernetes operators to orchestrate everything. And then we use, use Cockroach TV as our production data store, our production backend data store. >>So I'm curious, cause I love when these little matchmakers come together. You said you've now been presenting on a little bit of a road show, which is very exciting. Lisa, how are you and the team surfacing stories like Jakes, >>Well, I mean any, any place we can obviously all the social medias, all the blogs, How >>Are you finding it though? >>How, how did you Oh, like from our customers? Yeah, we have an open source version so people start to use us a long time before we even sometimes know about them. And then they'll come to us and they'll be like, I love Cockroach, and like, tell me about it. Like, tell me what you build and if it's interesting, you know, we'll we'll try to give it some light. And it's always interesting to me what people do with it because it's an interesting technology. I like what they've done with it. I mean the, the fact that it's globally distributed, right? That was like a really important thing to you. Totally. >>Yeah. We're also long term fans of Cockroach, so we actually all work together out of Workbench, which was a co-working space and investor in New York City. So yeah, we go way back. We knew the founders. I, I'm constantly saying like if I could have invested early in cockroach, that would've been the easiest check I could have ever signed. >>Yeah, that's awesome. And then we've been following that too and you guys are now using them, but folks that are out there looking to have the, the same challenges, what are the big challenges on selecting the database? I mean, as you know, the history of Cockroach and you're originating the story, folks out there might not know and they're also gonna choose a database. What's the, what's the big challenge that they can solve that that kind of comes together? What, what would you describe that? >>Sure. So we're, as I said, we're a permission service and per the data that you store in a permission service is incredibly sensitive. You need it to be around, right? You need it to be available. If the permission service goes down, almost everything else goes down because it's all calling into the permission service. Is this user allowed to do this? Are they allowed to do that? And if we can't answer those questions, then our customer is down, right? So when we're looking at a database, we're looking for reliability, we're looking for durability, disaster recovery, and then permission services are one of the only services that you usually don't shard geographically. So if you look at like AWS's iam, that's a global service, even though the individual things that they run are actually sharded by region. So we also needed a globally distributed database with all of those other properties. So that's what led us >>To, this is a huge topic. So man, we've been talking about all week the cloud is essentially distributed database at this point and it's distributed system. So distributed database is a hot topic, totally not really well reported. A lot of people talking about it, but how would you describe this distributed trend that's going on? What are the key reasons that they're driving it? What's making this more important than ever in your mind, in your opinion? >>I mean, for our use case, it was just a hard requirement, right? We had to be able to have this global service. But I think just for general use cases, a distributed database, distributed database has that like shared nothing architecture that allows you to kind of keep it running and horizontally scale it. And as your requirements and as your applications needs change, you can just keep adding on capacity and keep adding on reliability and availability. >>I'd love to get both of your opinion. You've been talking about the, the, the, the phases of customers, the advanced got Kubernetes going crazy distributed, super alpha geek. Then you got the, the people who are building now, then you got the lagers who are coming online. Where do you guys see the market now in terms of, I know the Alphas are all building all the great stuff and you guys had great success with all the top logos and they're all doing hardcore stuff. As the mainstream enterprise comes in, where's their psychology, what's on their mind? What's, you share any insight into your perspective on that? Because we're seeing a lot more of it folks becoming like real cloud players. >>Yeah, I feel like in mainstream enterprise hasn't been lagging as much as people think. You know, certainly there's been pockets in big enterprises that have been looking at this and as distributed sequel, it gives you that scalability that it's absolutely essential for big enterprises. But also it gives you the, the multi-region, you know, the, you have to be globally distributed. And for us, for enterprises, you know, you need your data near where the users are. I know this is hugely important to you as well. So you have to be able to have a multi-region functionality and that's one thing that distributed SQL lets you build and that what we built into our product. And I know that's one of the things you like too. >>Yeah, well we're a brand new product. I mean we only founded the company two years ago, but we're actually getting inbound interest from big enterprises because we solve the kinds of challenges that they have and whether, I mean, most of them already do have a cockroach footprint, but whether they did or didn't, once they need to bring in our product, they're going to be adopting cockroach transitively anyway. >>So, So you're built on top of Cockroach, right? And Spice dv, is that open source or? >>It >>Is, yep. Okay. And explain the role of open source and your business model. Can you take a minute to talk about the relevance of that? >>Yeah, open source is key. My background is, before this I was at Red Hat. Before that we were at CoreOS, so CoreOS acquisition and before that, >>One of the best acquisitions that ever happened for the value. That was a great, great team. Yeah, >>We, we, we had fun and before that we built Qua. So my co-founders and I, we built Quay, which is a, a first private docker registry. So CoreOS and, and all of those things are all open source or deeply open source. So it's just in our dna. We also see it as part of our go-to market motion. So if you are a database, a lot of people won't even consider what you're doing without being open source. Cuz they say, I don't want to take a, I don't want to, I don't want to end up in an Oracle situation >>Again. Yeah, Oracle meaning they go, you get you locked in, get you in a headlock, Increase prices. >>Yeah. Oh yeah, >>Can, can >>I got triggered. >>You need to talk about your PTSD there >>Or what. >>I mean we have 20,000 stars on GitHub because we've been open and transparent from the beginning. >>Yeah. And it >>Well, and both of your projects were started based on Google Papers, >>Right? >>That is true. Yep. And that's actually, so we're based off of the Google Zans of our paper. And as you know, Cockroach is based off of the Google Span paper and in the the Zanzibar paper, they have this globally distributed database that they're built on top of. And so when I said we're gonna go and we're gonna make a company around the Zabar paper, people would go, Well, what are you gonna do for Span? And I was like, Easy cockroach, they've got us covered. >>Yeah, I know the guys and my friends. Yeah. So the question is why didn't you get into the first round of Cockroach? She said don't answer that. >>The question he did answer though was one of those age old arguments in our community about pronunciation. We used to argue about Quay, I always called it Key of course. And the co-founder obviously knows how it's pronounced, you know, it's the et cd argument, it's the co cuddl versus the control versus coo, CTL Quay from the co-founder. That is end of argument. You heard it here first >>And we're keeping it going with Osted. So awesome. A lot of people will say Zeed or, you know, so we, we just like to have a little ambiguity >>In the, you gotta have some semantic arguments, arm wrestling here. I mean, it keeps, it keeps everyone entertained, especially on the over the weekend. What's, what's next? You got obviously Kubernetes in there. Can you explain the relationship between Kubernetes, how you're handling Spice dv? What, what does the Kubernetes piece fit in and where, where is that going to be going? >>Yeah, great question. Our flagship product right now is a dedicated, and in a dedicated, what we're doing is we're spinning up a single tenant Kubernetes cluster. We're installing all of our operator suite, and then we're installing the application and running it in a single tenant fashion for our customers in the same region, in the same data center where they're running their applications to minimize latency. Because of this, as an authorization service, latency gets passed on directly to the end user. So everybody's trying to squeeze the latency down as far as they can. And our strategy is to just run these single tenant stacks for people with the minimal latency that we can and give them a VPC dedicated link very similar to what Cockroach does in their dedicated >>Product. And the distributed architecture makes that possible because it's lighter way, it's not as heavy. Is that one of the reasons? >>Yep. And Kubernetes really gives us sort of like a, a level playing field where we can say, we're going going to take the provider, the cloud providers Kubernetes offering, normalize it, lay down our operators, and then use that as the base for delivering >>Our application. You know, Jake, you made me think of something I wanted to bring up with other guests, but now since you're here, you're an expert, I wanna bring that up, but talk about Super Cloud. We, we coined that term, but it's kind of multi-cloud, is that having workloads on multiple clouds is hard. I mean there are, they are, there are workloads on, on clouds, but the complexity of one clouds, let's take aws, they got availability zones, they got regions, you got now data issues in each one being global, not that easy on one cloud, nevermind all clouds. Can you share your thoughts on how you see that progression? Because when you start getting, as its distributed database, a lot of good things might come up that could fit into solving the complexity of global workloads. Could you share your thoughts on or scoping that problem space of, of geography? Yeah, because you mentioned latency, like that's huge. What are some of the other challenges that other people have with mobile? >>Yeah, absolutely. When you have a service like ours where the data is small, but very critical, you can get a vendor like Cockroach to step in and to fill that gap and to give you that globally distributed database that you can call into and retrieve the data. I think the trickier issues come up when you have larger data, you have huge binary blobs. So back when we were doing Quay, we wanted to be a global service as well, but we had, you know, terabytes, petabytes of data that we were like, how do we get this replicated everywhere and not go broke? Yeah. So I think those are kind of the interesting issues moving forward is what do you do with like those huge data lakes, the huge amount of data, but for the, the smaller bits, like the things that we can keep in a relational database. Yeah, we're, we're happy that that's quickly becoming a solved >>Problem. And by the way, that that data problem also is compounded when the architecture goes to the edge. >>Totally. >>I mean this is a big issue. >>Exactly. Yeah. Edge is something that we're thinking a lot about too. Yeah, we're lucky that right now the applications that are consuming us are in a data center already. But as they start to move to the edge, we're going to have to move to the edge with them. And it's a story that we're gonna have to figure out. >>All right, so you're a customer cockroach, what's the testimonial if I put you on the spot, say, hey, what's it like working with these guys? You know, what, what's the, what's the, you know, the founders, so you know, you give a good description, little biased, but we'll, we'll we'll hold you on it. >>Yeah. Working with Cockroach has been great. We've had a couple things that we've run into along the way and we've gotten great support from our account managers. They've brought in the right technical expertise when we need it. Cuz what we're doing with Cockroach is not you, you couldn't do it on Postgres, right? So it's not just a simple rip and replace for us, we're using all of the features of Cockroach, right? We're doing as of system time queries, we're doing global replication. We're, you know, we're, we're consuming it all. And so we do need help from them sometimes and they've been great. Yeah. >>And that's natural as they grow their service. I mean the world's changing. >>Well I think one of the important points that you mentioned with multi-cloud, we want you to have the choice. You know, you can run it in in clouds, you can run it hybrid, you can run it OnPrem, you can do whatever you want and it's just, it's one application that you can run in these different data centers. And so really it's up to you how do you want to build your infrastructure? >>And one of the things we've been talking about, the super cloud concept that we've been issue getting a lot of contrary, but, but people are leaning into it is that it's the refactoring and taking advantage of the services. Like what you mentioned about cockroach. People are doing that now on cloud going the lift and shift market kind of had it time now it's like hey, I can start taking advantage of these higher level services or capability of someone else's stack and refactoring it. So I think that's a dynamic that I'm seeing a lot more of. And it sounds like it's working out great in this situation. >>I just came from a talk and I asked them, you know, what don't you wanna put in the cloud and what don't you wanna run in Kubernetes or on containers and good Yeah. And the customers that I was on stage with, one of the guys made a joke and he said I would put my dog in a container room. I could, he was like in the category, which is his right, which he is in the category of like, I'll put everything in containers and these are, you know, including like mis critical apps, heritage apps, since they don't wanna see legacy anymore. Heritage apps, these are huge enterprises and they wanna put everything in the cloud. Everything >>You so want your dog that gets stuck on the airplane when it's on the tarmac. >>Oh >>God, that's, she was the, don't take that analogy. Literally don't think about that. Well that's, >>That's let's not containerize. >>There's always supply chain concern. >>It. So I mean going macro and especially given where we are cncf, it's all about open source. Do y'all think that open source builds a better future? >>Yeah and a better past. I mean this is, so much of this software is founded on open source. I, we wouldn't be here really. I've been in open source community for many, many years so I wouldn't say I'm biased. I would say this is how we build software. I came from like in a high school we're all like, oh let's build a really cool application. Oh you know what? I built this cuz I needed it, but maybe somebody else needs it too. And you put it out there and that is the ethos of Silicon Valley, right? That's where we grew up. So I've always had that mindset, you know, and social coding and why I have three people, right? Working on the same thing when one person you could share it's so inefficient. All of that. Yeah. So I think it's great that people work on what they're really good at. You know, we all, now you need some standardization, you need some kind of control around this whole thing. Sometimes some foundations to, you know, herd the cats. Yeah. But it's, it's great. Which is why I'm a c CF ambassador and I spend a lot of time, you know, in my free time talking about open source. Yeah, yeah. >>It's clear how passionate you are about it. Jake, >>This is my second company that we founded now and I don't think either of them could have existed without the base of open source, right? Like when you look at I have this cool idea for an app or a company and I want to go try it out, the last thing I want to do is go and negotiate with a vendor to get like the core data component. Yeah. To even be able to get to the >>Prototypes. NK too, by the way. Yeah. >>Hey >>Nk >>Or hire, you know, a bunch of PhDs to go and build that core component for me. So yeah, I mean nobody can argue that >>It truly is, I gotta say a best time if you're a developer right now, it's awesome to be a developer right now. It's only gonna get better. As we were riff from the last session about productivity, we believe that if you follow the digital transformation to its conclusion, developers and it aren't a department serving the business, they are the business. And that means they're running the show, which means that now their entire workflow is gonna change. It's gonna be have to be leveraging services partnering. So yeah, open source just fills that. So the more code coming up, it's just no doubt in our mind that that's go, that's happening and will accelerate. So yeah, >>You know, no one company is gonna be able to compete with a community. 50,000 users contributing versus you riding it yourself in your garage with >>Your dogs. Well it's people driven too. It's humans not container. It's humans working together. And here you'll see, I won't say horse training, that's a bad term, but like as projects start to get traction, hey, why don't we come together as, as the world starts to settle and the projects have traction, you start to see visibility into use cases, functionality. Some projects might not be, they have to kind of see more kind >>Of, not every feature is gonna be development. Oh. So I mean, you know, this is why you connect with truly brilliant people who can architect and distribute sequel database. Like who thought of that? It's amazing. It's as, as our friend >>You say, Well let me ask you a question before we wrap up, both by time, what is the secret of Kubernetes success? What made Kubernetes specifically successful? Was it timing? Was it the, the unambitious nature of it, the unification of it? Was it, what was the reason why is Kubernetes successful, right? And why nothing else? >>Well, you know what I'm gonna say? So I'm gonna let Dave >>First don't Jake, you go first. >>Oh boy. If we look at what was happening when Kubernetes first came out, it was, Mesosphere was kind of like the, the big player in the space. I think Kubernetes really, it had the backing from the right companies. It had the, you know, it had the credibility, it was sort of loosely based on Borg, but with the story of like, we've fixed everything that was broken in Borg. Yeah. And it's better now. Yeah. So I think it was just kind and, and obviously people were looking for a solution to this problem as they were going through their containerization journey. And I, yeah, I think it was just right >>Place, the timing consensus of hey, if we just let this happen, something good might come together for everybody. That's the way I felt. I >>Think it was right place, right time, right solution. And then it just kind of exploded when we were at Cores. Alex Povi, our ceo, he heard about Kubernetes and he was like, you know, we, we had a thing called Fleet D or we had a tool called Fleet. And he's like, Nope, we're all in on Kubernetes now. And that was an amazing Yeah, >>I remember that interview. >>I, amazing decision. >>Yeah, >>It's clear we can feel the shift. It's something that's come up a lot this week is is the commitment. Everybody's all in. People are ready for their transformation and Kubernetes is definitely gonna be the orchestrator that we're >>Leveraging. Yeah. And it's an amazing community. But it was, we got lucky that the, the foundational technology, I mean, you know, coming out of Google based on Go conferences, based on Go, it's no to coincidence that this sort of nature of, you know, pods horizontally, scalable, it's all fits together. I does make sense. Yeah. I mean, no offense to Python and some of the other technologies that were built in other languages, but Go is an awesome language. It's so, so innovative. Innovative things you could do with it. >>Awesome. Oh definitely. Jake, I'm very curious since we learned on the way and you are a Detroit native? >>I am. Yep. I grew up in the in Warren, which is just a suburb right outside of Detroit. >>So what does it mean to you as a Michigan born bloke to be here, see your entire community invade? >>It is, I grew up coming to the Detroit Auto Show in this very room >>That brought me to Detroit the first time. Love n a I a s. Been there with our friends at Ford just behind us. >>And it's just so interesting to me to see the accumulation, the accumulation of tech coming to Detroit cuz it's really not something that historically has been a huge presence. And I just love it. I love to see the activity out on the streets. I love to see all the restaurants and coffee shops full of people. Just, I might tear up. >>Well, I was wondering if it would give you a little bit of that hometown pride and also the joy of bringing your community together. I mean, this is merging your two probably most core communities. Yeah, >>Yeah. Your >>Youth and your, and your career. It doesn't get more personal than that really. Right. >>It's just been, it's been really exciting to see the energy. >>Well thanks for going on the queue. Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it. Thanks >>For having us. Yeah, thank you both so much. Lisa, you were a joy of ball of energy right when you walked up. Jake, what a compelling story. Really appreciate you sharing it with us. John, thanks for the banter and the fabulous questions. I'm >>Glad I could help out. >>Yeah, you do. A lot more than help out sweetheart. And to all of you watching the Cube today, thank you so much for joining us live from Detroit, the Cube Studios. My name is Savannah Peterson and we'll see you for our event wrap up next.

(upbeat music) >> Hey, guys and girls, welcome back to New York City. Lisa Martin and John Furrier are live with theCUBE at AWS Summit 22, here in The Big Apple. We're excited to be talking about security next. James Arlen joins us, the CISO at Aiven. James, thanks so much for joining us on theCUBE today. >> Absolutely, it's good to be here. >> Tell the audience a little bit about Aiven, what you guys do, what you deliver, and what some of those differentiators are. >> Oh, Aiven. Aiven is a fantastic organization. I'm actually really lucky to work there. It's a database as a service, managed databases, all open source. And we're capital S, serious about open source. So 10 different open source database products delivered as a platform, all managed services, and the game is really about being the most performant, secure, and compliant database as a service on the market, friction free for your developers. You don't need people worrying about how to run databases. You just want to be able to say, here, take care of my data for me. And that's what we do. And that's actually the differentiator. We just take care of it for you. >> Take care of it for you, I like that. >> So they download the open source. They could do it on their own. So all the different projects are out there. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> What do you guys bringing to the table? You said the managed service, can you explain that. >> Yeah, the managed service aspect of it is, really, you could install the software yourself. You can use Postgres or Apache Kafka or any one of the products that we support. Absolutely you can do it yourself. But is that really what you do for a living, or do you develop software, or do you sell a product? So we take and do the hard work of running the systems, running the equipment. We take care of backups, high availability, all the security and compliance things around access and certifications, all of those things that are logging, all of that stuff that's actually difficult to do, well and consistently, that's all we do. >> Talk about the momentum, I see you guys were founded in what? 2016? >> Yes. >> Just in May of '22, raised $210 million in series D funding. >> Yes. >> Talk about the momentum and also from your perspective, all of the massive changes in security. >> It's very interesting to work for a company where you're building more than 100% growth year over year. It's a powers of two thing. Going from one to two, not so scary, two to four, not so scary. 512 to 1024, it's getting scary. (Lisa chuckles) 1024 to 2048, oh crap! I've been with Aiven for just almost two years now, and we are less than 70 when I started, and we're near 500 now. So, explosive growth is very interesting, but it's also that, you're growing within a reasonable burn rate boundary as well. And what that does from a security perspective, is it leaves you in the position that I had. I walked in and I was the first actual CISO. I had a team of four, I now have a team of 40. Because it turns out that like a lot of things in life, as you start unpacking problems, they're kind of fractal. You unpack the problem, you're like oh, well I did deal with that problem, but now I got another problem that I got to deal with. And so there's, it's not turtles all the way down. >> There's a lot of things going on and other authors, survive change. >> And there's fundamental problems that are still not fixed. And yet we treat them like they're fixed. And so we're doing a lot of hard work to make it so that we don't have to do hard work ongoing. >> And that's the value of the managed service. >> Yes. >> Okay, so talk about competition. Obviously, we had ETR on which is Enterprise Research Firm that we trust, we like. And we were looking at the data with the headwinds in the market, looking at the different players like got Amazon has Redshift, Snowflake, and you got Azure Sequence. I think it's called one of those products. The money that's being shifted from on premise data where the old school data warehouse like terra data and whatnot, is going first to Snowflake, then to Azure, then to AWS. Yes, so that points to snowflake being kind of like the bell of the ball if you will, in terms of from a data cloud. >> Absolutely. >> How do you compete with them? What's the pitch 'Cause that seemed to be a knee-jerk reaction from the industry. 'Cause snowflake is hot. They have a good value product. They have a smart team, Databrick is out there too. >> Yeah I mean... >> how do you guys compete against all that. >> So this is that point where you're balancing the value of a specific technology, or a specific technology vendor. And am I going to be stuck with them? So I'm tying my future to their future. With open source, I'm tying my future to the common good right. The internet runs on open source. It doesn't run on anything closed. And so I'm not hitching my wagon to something that I don't control. I'm hitching it to something where, any one of our customers could decide. I'm not getting the value I need from Aiven anymore. I need to go. And we provide you with the tools necessary, to move from our open source managed service to your own. Whether you go on-prem or you run it yourself, on a cloud service provider, move your data to you because it's your data. It's not ours. How can I hold your data? It's like weird extortion ransoming thing. >> Actually speaking, I mean enterprise, it's a big land grab 'cause with cloud you're horizontally scalable. It's a beautiful thing, open source is booming. It's going in Aiven, every day it's just escalating higher and higher. >> Absolutely. >> It is the software business. So open is open. Integration and scale seems to be the competitive advantage. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, how do you guys compete with that? Because now you got open source. How do you offer the same benefits without the lock in, or what's the switching costs? How do you guys maintain that position of not saying the same thing in Snowflake? >> Because all of the biggest data users and consumers tend to give away their data products. LinkedIn gave away their data product. Uber gave away their data product, Facebook gave away their data product. And we now use those as community solutions. So, if the product works for something the scale of LinkedIn, or something the scale of Uber. It will probably work for you too. And scale is just... >> Well Facebook and LinkedIn, they gave away the product to own the data to use against you. >> But it's the product that counts because you need to be able to manipulate data the way they manipulate data, but with yours. >> So low latency needs to work. So horizontally, scalable, fees, machine learning. That's what we're seeing. How do you make that available? Customers want on architecture? What do you recommend? Control plane, data plane, how do you think about that? >> It's interesting. There's architectural reasons to think about it in terms like that. And there's other good architectural reasons to not think about it. There's sort of this dividing line in the cloud, where your cloud service provider, takes over and provides you with the opportunity to say, I don't know. And I don't care >> As long as it's secure >> As long as it's secure absolutely. But there's sort of that water line idea, where if it's below the water line, let somebody else deal. >> What is in the table stakes? 'Cause I like that approach. I think that's a good value proposition. Store it, what boxes have to be checked? Compliance, secure, what are some of the boxes? >> You need to make sure that you've taken care of all of the same basics if you are still running it. Remember you can't absolve yourself of your duty to your customer. You're still on the hook. So, you have to have backups. You have to have access control. You have to understand who's administering it, and how and what they're doing. Good logging, good comprehension there. You have to have anomaly detection, secure operations. You have to have all those compliance check boxes. Especially if you're dealing with regulated data type like PCI data or HIPAA health data or you know what there's other countries besides the United States, there's other kinds of of compliance obligations there. So you have to make sure that you've got all that taken into account. And remember that, like I said, you can't absolve yourself with those things. You can share responsibilities. But you can't walk away from that responsibility. So you still have to make sure that you validate that your vendor knows what they're talking about. >> I wanted to ask you about the cybersecurity skills gap. So I'm kind of giving a little segue here, because you mentioned you've been with Aiven for about two years. >> Almost. >> Almost two years. You've started with a team of four. You've grown at 10X in less than two years. How have you accomplished that, considering we're seeing one of the biggest skills shortages in cyber in history. >> It's amazing, you see this show up in a lot of job Ads, where they ask for 10 years of experience in something that's existed for three years. (John Furrier laughs) And it's like okay, well if I just be logical about this I can hire somebody at less than the skill level that I need today, and bring them up to that skill level. Or I can spend the same amount of time, hoping that I'll find the magical person that has that set of skills that I need. So I can solve the problem of the skills gap by up-skilling the people that I hire. Which is strangely contrary to how this thing works. >> The other thing too, is the market's evolving so fast that, that carry up and pulling someone along, or building and growing your own so to speak is workable. >> It also really helps us with a bunch of sustainability goals. It really helps with anything that has to do with diversity and inclusion, because I can bring forward people who are never given a chance. And say, you know what? You don't have that magical ticket in life, but damn you know what you're talking about? >> It's a classic pedigree. I went to this school, I studied this degree. There's no degree if have to stop a hacker using state of the art malware. (John Furrier laughs) >> Exactly. What I do today as a job, didn't exist when I was in post-secondary at all. >> So when you hire, what do you look for? I mean obviously problem solving. What's your kind of algorithm for hiring? >> Oh, that's a really interesting question. The quickest sort of summary of it is, I'm looking for not a jerk. >> Not a jerk. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Because it turns out that the quality that I can't fix in a candidate, is I can't fix whether or not they're a jerk, but I can up-skill them, I can educate them. I can teach them of a part of the world that they've not had any interaction with. But if they're not going to work with the team, if they're going to be, look at me, look at me. If they're going to not have that moment of, I have this great job, and I get to work today. And that's awesome. (Lisa Martin laughs) That's what I'm trying to hire for. >> The essence of this teamwork is fundamental. >> Collaboration. >> Cooperation. >> Curiosity. >> That's the thing yeah, absolutely. >> And everybody? >> Those things, oh absolutely. Those things are really, really hard to interview for. And they're impossible to fix after the fact. So that's where you really want to put the effort. 'Cause I can teach you how to use a computer. I mean it's hard, but it's not that hard. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Well I love the current state of data management. Good overview, you guys are in the good position. We love open source. Been covering it for, since theCUBE started. It continues to redefine more and more the industry. It is the software industry. Now there's no debate about that. If people want to have that debate, that's kind of waste of time, but there are other ways that are happening. So I have to ask you. As things are going forward with innovation. Okay, if opensource is going to be the software industry. Where's the value? >> That's a fun question wow? >> Is it going to be in the community? Is it the integration? Is it the scale? If you're open and you have low switching costs... >> Yeah so, when you look at Aiven's commitment to open source, a huge part of that is our open source project office, where we contribute back to those core products, whether it's parts of the Apache Foundation, or Postgres, or whatever. We contribute to those, because we have staff who work on those products. They don't work on our stuff. They work on those. And it's like the opposite of a zero sum game. It's more like Nash equilibrium. If you ever watch that movie, "A beautiful mind." That great idea of, you don't have to have winners and losers. You can have everybody loses a little bit but everybody wins a little bit. >> Yeah and that's the open the ethos. >> And that's where it gets tied up. >> Another follow up on that. The other thing I want to get your reaction on is that, now in this modern era of open source, almost all corporations are part of projects. I mean if you're an entrepreneur and you want to get funding it's pretty simple. You start open source project. How many stars you get on GitHub guarantees it's a series C round, pretty much. So open source now has got this new thing going on, where it's not just open source folks who believe in it It's an operating model. What's the dynamic of corporations being part of the system. It used to be, oh what's the balance between corporate and influence, now it's standard. What's your reaction? >> They can do good and they can do harm. And it really comes down to why are you in it? So if you look at the example of open search, which is one of the data products that we operate in the Aiven system. That's a collaboration between Aiven. Hey we're an awesome company, but we're nowhere near the size of AWS. And AWS where we're working together on it. And I just had this conversation with one of the attendees here, where he said, "Well AWS is going to eat your story there. "You're contributing all of this "to the open search platform. "And then AWS is going to go and sell it "and they're going to make more money." And I'm like yep, they are. And I've got staff who work for the organization, who are more fulfilled because they got to deliver something that's used by millions of people. And you think about your jobs. That moment of, (sighs) I did a cool thing today. That's got a lot of value in it. >> And part of something. >> Exactly. >> As a group. >> 100%. >> Exactly. >> And we end up with a product that's used by millions. Some of it we'll capture, because we do a better job running than the AWS does, but everybody ends up winning out of the backend. Again, everybody lost a little, but everybody also won. And that's better than that whole, you have to lose so that I can win. At zero something, that doesn't work. >> I think the silo conversations are coming, what's the balance between siloing something and why that happens. And then what's going to be freely accessible for data. Because the real time information is based upon what you can access. "Hey Siri, what's the weather. "We had a guest on earlier." It says, oh that's a data query. Well, if the weather is, the data weathers stored in a database that's out here and it can't get to the response on the app. Yeah, that's not good, but the data is available. It just didn't get delivered. >> Yeah >> Exactly. >> This is an example of what people are realizing now the consequences of this data, collateral damage or economy value. >> Yeah, and it's understanding how data fits in your environment. And I don't want to get on the accountants too hard, but the accounting organizations, AICPA and ISAE and others, they haven't really done a good job of helping you understand data as an asset, or data as a liability. I hold a lot of customer data. That's a liability to me. It's going to blow up in my face. We don't talk about the income that we get from data, Google. We don't talk about the expense of regenerating that data. We talk about, well what happens if you lose it? I don't know. And we're circling the drain around fiduciary responsibility, and we know how to do this. If you own a manufacturing plant, or if you own a fleet of vehicles you understand the fiduciary duty of managing your asset. But because we can't touch it, we don't do a good job of it. >> How far do you think are people getting into the point where they actually see that asset? Because I think it's out of sight out of mind. Now there's consequences, there's now it's public companies might have to do filings. It's not like sustainability and data. Like, wait a minute, I got to deal with these things. >> It's interesting, we got this great benefit of the move to cloud computing, and the move to utility style computing. But we took away that. I got to walk around and pet my computers. Like oh! This is my good database. I'm very proud of you. Like we're missing that piece now. And when you think about the size of data centers, we become detached from that, you don't really think about, Aiven operates tens of thousands of machines. It would take entire buildings to hold them all. You don't think about it. So how do you recreate that visceral connection to your data? Well, you need to start actually thinking about it. And you need to do some of that tokenization. When was the last time you printed something out, like you get a report and happens to me all the time with security reports. Look at a security report and it's like 150 page PDF. Scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. Print it out, stump it on the table in front of you. Oh, there's gravitas here. There's something here. Start thinking about those records, count them up, and then try to compare that to something in the real world. My wife is a school teacher, kindergarten to grade three, and tokenizing math is how they teach math to little kids. You want to count something? Here's 10 things, count them. Well, you've got 60,000 customer records, or you have 2 billion data points in your IOT database, tokenize that, what does 2 billion look like? What does $1 million look like in the form of $100 dollars bills on a pallet? >> Wow. >> Right. Tokenize that data, create that visceral connection with it, and then talk about it. >> So when you say tokenized, you mean like token as in decentralization token? >> No, I mean create like a totem or an icon of it. >> Okay, got it. >> A thing you can hold holy. If you're a token company. >> Not token as in Token economics and Crypto. >> If you're a mortgage company, take that customer record for one of your customers, print it out and hold the file. Like in a Manila folder, like it's 1963. Hold that file, and then say yes. And you're explaining to somebody and say yes, and we have 3 million of these. If we printed them all out, it would take up a room this size. >> It shows the scale. >> Right. >> Right. >> Exactly, create that connection back to the human level of interaction with data. How do you interact with a terabyte of data, but you do. >> Right. >> But once she hits upgrade from Google drive. (team laughs) >> What's a terabyte right? We don't hold that anymore. >> Right, right. >> Great conversation. >> Recreate that connection. Talk about data that way. >> The visceral connection with data. >> Follow up after this event. We'd love to dig more and love the approach. Love open source, love what you're doing there. That's a very unique approach. And it's also an alternative to some of the other vast growing plus your valuations are very high too. So you're not like a... You're not too far away from these big valuations. So congratulations. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah excellent, I'm sure there's lots of work to do, lots of strategic work to do with that round of funding. But also lots of opportunity, that it's going to open up, and we know you don't hire jerks. >> I don't >> You have a whole team of non jerks. That's pretty awesome. Especially 40 of 'em. That's impressive James.| >> It is. >> Congratulations to you on what you've accomplished in the course of the team. And thank you for sharing your insights with John and me today, we appreciate it. >> Awesome. >> Thanks very much, it's been great. >> Awesome, for John furrier, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCube, live in New York city at AWS Summit NYC 22, John and I will be right back with our next segment, stick around. (upbeat music)

>>Good morning from New York city, Lisa Martin and John furrier with the cube. We are at AWS summit NYC. This is a series of summits this year, about 15 summit globally. And we're excited to be here, John, with about 10,000 folks. >>It's crowded. New York is packed big showing here at 80 of us summit. So it's super exciting, >>Super exciting. Just a little bit before the keynote. And we have our first guest, Kevin Farley joins us the director of strategic alliances at Maria DB. Kevin, welcome to >>The program. Thank you very much. Appreciate you guys having us. >>So all of us out from California to NYC. Yeah, lots of eyes. We got keynote with Warner Vogels coming up. We should be some good news, hopefully. Yep. But talk to us about Maria DB Skys cloud native version released a couple years ago. What's going on? >>Yeah, well, it's, you know, Skys SQL for us is really a be on the future. I think when we think about like the company's real mission is it's just creating a database for everyone. It's it's any cloud, any scale, um, any size of performance and really making sure that we're able to deliver on something that really kind of takes advantage of everything we've done in the market to date. If you think about it, there's not very many startups that have a billion downloads and 75% of the fortune 500 already using our service. So what we're really thinking about is how do we bridge that gap? How do we create a natural path for all of these customers? And if you think about not just Maria DB, but anyone else using the sequel query language, all the, my people, what I think most Andy jazzy TK, anyone says, you know, it's about 10% of the market currently is in the clouds. That's 90% of a total addressable market that hasn't done it yet. So creating cloud modernization for us, I think is just a huge opportunity. Do >>You guys have a great history with AWS? I want to just step back, you mentioned some stats on, on success. Can you scope the size and track record of Maria DB for us real quick and set the table? Because I think there's a bigger picture going on that we've been tracking for the past 13 years we address is the role of the database has always been one of those things where they didn't believe a one database fits all things, right. You guys have been part of that track record scope, the size and scale of Maria DB, the usage, the use cases and some of the successes. >>Yeah. I mean, like I said, some of the stats are already threw out there. So, you know, it is pervasive, I think is the best way to put it. I think what you look at what the database market really became is very siloed. Right? I think there was a lot of unique solutions that were built and delivered that had promise, but they also had compromise. And I think once you look at the landscape of a lot of fortune 500 companies, they have probably 10 to 15 different database solutions, right? And they're all doing unique things. They're difficult to manage. They're very costly. So what Marie DB is always kind of focused on is how do we continue to build more and more functionality into the database itself and allow that to be a single source of truth where application developers can seamlessly integrate applications. >>So then the theme of this event in New York city, which is scale dot, dot, dot, anything must align quite well with Maria and your >>Objectives. I mean, honestly, I think when I think of the problems that most database, um, companies, um, face customers, I should say it, it really comes down to performance and scale. Most of them like Maria DB, like you said, they it's like the car, you know, and love you've been driving it for years. You're an expert at it. It works great, but it doesn't have enough range. It doesn't go fast enough. It's hitting walls. That modern data requirements are just breaking. So scale for me is the favorite thing to talk about because what we launched as MariaDB expand, which is a plugable storage engine that is integrated into Skye, and it really gives you dynamic scale. So you can scale in, you can scale out, it's not costly compute to try to get for seasonality. So you can make your black Friday numbers. It's really about the dexterity to be able to come in and out as you need in a share, nothing architecture with full failover sale healing, high availability, married to the cloud for full cloud scale. And that's really the beauty of the AWS partnership. >>Can you elaborate a bit more on the partnership? How long have you guys been partners? Where is it now anything exciting coming out? >>Yeah, it it's, it's actually been a wonderful ride. They've really invested from the very beginning we went for the satisfactory. So they really brought a lot of resources to bear. And I think if you're looking at why it works, um, it's probably two things. I think the number one thing is that we share one of the core tenants and it's customer obsession in a, in a, in an environment where there is co-opetition right. You have to find paths for how do you get the best thing for the customer? And the second is pretty obvious, but if you look at any major cloud, their number one priority is getting large mission critical workloads into their cloud because the revenue is exponential on the backside. So what do we own? Large mission critical workloads. So if you marry that objective with AWS, the partnership is absolutely perfect for driving true revenue, growth scale, and, and revenue across, across both entities in the partner ecosystem. >>So Kevin talk about the, um, the hybrid strategy, cuz you're seeing cloud operations. Yep. Go hybrid. Amazon announced AWS announced outpost like four years ago. Right now edge is super hot. Yeah. So you're seeing like most of the enterprise is saying mm-hmm <affirmative> okay. Love cloud love the cloud database, but I got the on-prem hybrid cloud operations. Right. So it's not just proprietary operations. It's cloud ops. Yeah. How do you guys fit into that? What's the story. >>We, we actually it's. I mean, there's, there's all these new deliverables outposts, you know, come out with a promise. What we have is a reality right now, um, one of the largest, um, networking companies, which I can't mention yet publicly, um, we want a really big sky SQL deal, but what they had manufacturing plants, they needed to have on-prem deployments. So Maria DB naturally syncs with sky SQL. It's the same technology. It works in perfect harmony. So we really already deliver on the promise of hybrid, but of course there's a lot more we can grow in that area. And certainly thinking about app posts and other solutions, um, is definitely on the, the longer term roadmap of what could make sense for in our customer. What, >>What are some of the latest things that, that you guys are doing now that you weren't doing a few years ago that customers should know about the audience should know about? >>I mean, I think the game changer, we're always innovating. I mean, when you're the company that writes the code owns the code, you know, we can do hot fixes, we can do security patches, we can always do the things that give you real time access to what you need. But I think the game changer is what I mentioned a little bit earlier. And I think it's really the, the holy grail of the cloud. It's like, how can we take the, the SQL query language, which is well over 50% of the open source market. Right. And how do we convert that seamlessly into the cloud? How do we help you modernize on that journey? And expand gives you the ability to say, I can be the small, I can be a small startup. I got my C round. I don't wanna manage databases. I can use the exact same service as the largest fortune 100 company that has massive global scale and needs to be able to drive that across globe. Yeah. So I think that's the beauty is that it's really a democratization of the database, >>At least that, you know, we've been covering the big data space for 10 years. Remember all those different conversations had do those days and oh, they have big data and right. But then it's like too hard to set up. Then you had that kind of period where you saw a spark and data lakes emerge. Yeah. Then you, now it almost seems, seems like now more than ever, there's a data revolutions back. Right. It was almost like a lull in the, in, in the, in the market a little bit. Yeah. I'm gonna democratize data science right now. You got data. So now it just seems to be an explosion at that level. What's your analysis on that? Because you you've been in, in, in the weeds and in the, in the, in this market for 10 years. Yeah. And nothing really changed. It's just now it's more ready. Yeah. I think what's your observation. Why >>Is that? I think that's a really good question. And I love it cuz I mean, what the promise of things like could do and net new technologies sort of, it was always out there, but it required this whole net new lift and how do I do it? How do I manage it? How do I optimize it? The beauty of what we can do with Maria DB is that sky SQLs, which you already know and love. Right? And now we can Del you can deliver a data lake on S3, right? You can pull that data. And we also have the ability to do both analytical data and transactional data from the same database. So you can write applications that can pull column, store data up into, um, your application, but you can also have all of your asset transactions, which are absolutely required for all of your mission critical business. So I think that we're seeing more and more adoption. You've seen other companies start to talk about bringing the different elements in, but we're the only ones that really >>Do it and SQL standardizing that front end. Yeah. Even better than ever before. All the stuff under the covers is all being connected. >>That's the awesome part is right. Is you're literally doing what you already know how to do, but you blow it out on the back end, married to the cloud. And that I think is the real revolution of what makes usability real in the data space. And I think that's what was always the problem before >>When you're in partner conversations, you mentioned co-opetition. Yeah. <laugh> so I think when you're in partner conversations and customer conversations, there is a lot of the, the there's a lot of competition out there. Absolutely. Everyone's got their own key messages. What are the key differentiators that you're saying AWS Marie to be together better? And here's why, >>Yeah. I, I think that certainly you, you start with the global footprint of AWS, right? So what we rely on the most is having the ability to truly deal with global customers in availability zones, they're gonna optimize performance from them. But then when we look at what we do that really changes the game, it comes down to scale and performance. We actually just ran, um, a suspense test against cockroach that also does distributed sequel. Absolutely. You know, the results were off the chart. So we went public and said, we have an open challenge. Anyone that wants to try to beat, um, expand and Skye will we'll if you can, we'll put $25,000 towards charity. So we really are putting our money where our mouth is on that challenge. So we believe the performance cuz we've seen it and we know it's real, but then it's really always about data scale. Modern data requirements are breaking the mold of charting. They're breaking the mold of all these bandaids that people have put in these traditional services. And we give them future. We, we feature proof their investments, so they can say, Hey, I can start here. But if I end up being a startup that becomes Airbnb, I'm already built to blow it out on the back end. I can already use what I have. >>Speaking of startups, being the next Airbnb. If you look at behind us here, you can see, this is a really packed event in New York city events are back, but the ecosystem here is even flourishing. So Dave and I and Lisa were observing that we're still kind of in a growth mode, big time. So yeah, there's some market forces headwinds for the big unicorns, overfunded, you know, public companies, maybe the valuations are a little bit off, but there's still a surge of new innovations, new companies coming out of this. Um, and it's all around data and scale. It's all around new names. We've never heard of. Absolutely. What's your take on >>Reaction? Well, actually another awesome segues cuz in addition to the public clouds, I manage the ecosystem. And one of the things that we've really been focused on with Skys SQL is making it accessible API accessible. So if you're a company that has a huge Marine DB footprint change data capture might be the most important thing for you to say, we wanna do this, but we want you to stay in sync with our environments. Um, things like monitoring, things like BI, all of these are ecosystem plays and current partners that we have, um, that we really think about how do you holistically look at not only the database and what it can do, but how does it deliver value to different segments of your customer base or just your employee base that are using that stuff? So I think that's huge for us. >>Well, you know, one of the things that we talk often about is that every company, these days, regardless of industry, has to be a data company. Yep. You've gotta be able to access the data glean insights from an act on it quickly, whether it's manufacturing, retail, healthcare, are there any verticals in where Maria DB really excels? >>Um, so certainly we Excel in areas like financial services is huge DBS bank. Um, in APAC, one of our biggest customers, also one of the largest Oracle migrations, probably the, that we've ever done. A lot of people trying to get off Oracle, we make it seamless to get into Maria DB. Um, you can think about Samsung cloud and another, their entire consumer cloud is built on Maria DB, why it's integrated with expand right seasonality. So there's customers like that that really bring it home for us as far as ServiceNow tech sector. Right? So these are all different ones, but I think we're really strong in those >>Areas. So this brings up a good point. Dave and I a coined a term called super cloud at reinvent and Lisa and Dave were at multiple events we're together at events. And so a lot of people are getting behind this cuz it's multi-cloud sounds like something's broken. Yes. But so we call it super cloud because customers are building on top of ecosystems like Maria DB and others. Yeah. Not just AWS SOS does all the CapEx absolutely provide the value. So now people are having this new super cloud moment. We' saying we can get all the benefits of cloud scale mm-hmm <affirmative> without actually being a cloud. Right. So this is where the next gen layer comes. What's your reaction to, to super cloud. Do you think it's a thing? >>Well, I think it's a thing in the sense, from our perspective as an ISV, we're, we're laser focused on making sure that we support any cloud and we have a truly multicloud cloud platform. But the beauty of that as well is from a single UI, you're able to deploy databases in different clouds underneath that you're not looking at so you can have performance proximity, but you're still driving it through the same Skys UI. So for us it's, it's unequivocally true. Got it. And I think it's only ISVs like Maria DB that can deliver on that value because >>You're enabling, >>We're enabling it. Right. We partner, we build on top of everything. Right. So we can access everything underneath >>And they can then build on top of you. >>Sure, exactly. And that's exactly where it goes. Right? Yeah. So that, I think in that sense, the super cloud is actually already somewhat real. >>It's interesting. You look at the old, it spend, you take a big company. I won't say a name, but a leader in a, a vertical, they have such a big spend. Now they can leverage that spend in with the super cloud model. They then could become a service provider in the vertical. Absolutely capital one S doing it. Yeah. You're seeing, um, Goldman Sachs doing it. They have the power on the spend that they're leveraging in for their business and servicing their vertical and the smaller players. Do you see that trend? >>Well, I think that's the reality is that everyone is getting this place where if you're talking about sort of this broader super concept, you're talking about global scale, right? That's if in order to deliver a backbone that can service that model, you have to have the right data structure and the right database footprint to be able to scale. And I think that's what they all need to be able to do. And that's what we're really well positioned with Skys >>To enable companies, as we talked about a minute ago to truly become data companies. Yeah. And to be competitive and to scale on their own, where are your customer conversations? Are they at the C-suite level? Has that changed in the last couple of years? >>Uh, that's actually a really great way to state that question because I think you would've traditionally probably talked more to, um, the DBAs, right? They're the people that are having headaches. They're having problems. They're, they're trying to solve. We see a lot of developers now tons, right? They're thinking about, I have this, I have this new thing that I need to do to deliver this new application. And here's the requirements and the current model's broken. It doesn't optimize that it's a lot of work and it's hard to manage. So I think that we're in a great position to be able to take that to that next phase and deliver. And then of course, as you get deeper in with AWS, you're talking about, you know, CIO level, CISO level, they're they need to understand how do you fit into our larger paradigm. And many of these guys have, you know, hundreds of million dollar commits with AWS. So they think of their investment in the sense of the cloud stack. And we're part of that cloud stack, just like AWS services. So those conversations continue to happen certainly with our larger customers, cuz it truly is married. >>It is. And they continue to evolve. Kevin, thank you so much >>For joining. You're welcome. Great, >>John and me talking about what's going on with Maria >>D. Thank you, John. Thank you, Lisa. On behalf of Maria B, it was wonderful. Really >>Appreciate it. Fantastic as well for John furrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube live from New York city at AWS summit NYC, John and I we're back with our next guest in a minute.

>>Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're back at the center of the coverage of the world 20 twenty-two, the first live event in three years. Pretty amazing. And I'm really excited to have Tony Coleman. Here is the c e o of those who changing the finance and banking industry. And this is the global head of industry solutions. That would be welcome. Back to the cube. Welcome. First time. Um, so thanks for coming on. Thank you. >>Thanks for having us, >>Tony. Tell us about what are you guys up to? Disrupting the finance world. >>So tomorrow is everyone's banking platform. So we are a software company. We have over 3000 financial institutions around the world. Marketing tell me that that works out is over 1.2 billion people rely on terminal software for their banking and financial needs. 41 of the top 50 banks in the world run software and we are very proud to be powering all of those entities on their innovation journeys and bringing you know, that digital transformation that we've seen so much all over the past few years and enabling a lot of the world's unbanked through digital banking become, you know, members of the >>community. So basically you're bringing the software platform to enable that to somebody you don't have to build it themselves because they never get there. Absolutely. And and so that's why I don't know if you consider that disruptive. I guess I do to the industry to a certain extent. But when you think of disruption in the business, you think of Blockchain and crypto, and 50 is that is completely separate world and you guys participate in that as well. Well, I >>would say it's related right? I mean, I was doing a podcast recently and they had this idea of, um, buzzword jail where you could choose words to go into jail and I said 50 not because I think they're intrinsically bad, but I think just at the moment they are a rife for scam area. I think it's one of those one of these technologies and investment area that people don't understand it, and there's a lot of a lot of mistakes that can be made in that, >>Yeah, >>I mean, it's a fascinating piece that it could be truly transformative if we get it right, but it's very emerging, so we'll see so don't play a huge part in the Blockchain industry directly. We work with partners in that space, but in terms of digital assets and that sort of thing. Yeah, absolutely. >>So, Boris, you have industry solutions in your title. What does that entail? So >>basically, I'm responsible for all the verticals, and that includes great partners like Tony. And we're doing a lot of verticals by now. When you listen. Today in all these various talks, we have so much stuff ranging from banking, go retail, healthcare, insurance, you name it, we have it by now. And that's obviously the clients moving from the edge solution. Like touching a little toe in the water, but longer to going all in building biggest solutions you saw on stage the lady from this morning. These are not second Great. Yeah, we do something small now. We're part of the transformation journey. And this is where Tony and I can regularly together how we transform things and how we built a new way of banking is done with Michael services and technology surrounding it. Yeah, >>but what about performance in this world? Can you tell me about that? >>Yeah. This is an interesting thing because people always challenging what is performance and document databases. And Tony challenged us actually, six weeks before his own show several weeks ago in London and says, Boris, let's do a benchmark And maybe you bring your story because if I get too excited, I follow. >>Yeah, sure, that performance and efficiency topics close close to my heart. I have been for for years. And so, yeah, we every two or three years, we run a high water. We've got a high water benchmark, and this year we sort of double down literally double down on everything we did previously. So this was 200 million accounts, 100 million customers, and we were thrashing through 102,800 seventy-five transactions a second, which is a phenomenal number. And, uh, >>can I do that on the Blockchain? >>Wow. Yeah, exactly. Right. So this is you know, I get asked why we do such high numbers and the reason is very straightforward. If somebody wants 10,000 transactions a second, we're seeing banks now that need that sort of thing. If I can give them a benchmark report, this is 100,000. I don't need to keep doing benchmarks. 10. >>Yeah. Tell me more about the Anytime you get into benchmarks, you want to understand the configuration. The workload. Tell me more about that. So we have >>a pretty well path of a standard transaction mix. We call it a retail transaction mix. And so it's the tries to the workload. Is that because it's a simulation right around what you would do in your daily basis? So you're going to make payments you're going to check? Your balance is you're going to see what he's moved on your account. So we do all of that and we run it through a proper production, good environment. And this is really important. This is something we do in the lab you couldn't go live on. This is all all of the horrible, non functional requirements around high availability, >>security, security passes, private wings, all these things. And one thing is, they're doing this for a long time. So this is not like let's define something new for the world. Now, this is something Tony's doing for literally 10, 15 years now, right? >>It was only 15 years, but this >>is your benchmark >>top >>developed Okay, >>so we run it through and, um yeah, some fantastic numbers. And not just on the share sort of top-level numbers 100,000 transactions. A second response time out of it was fantastic. One-millisecond, which is just brilliant. So it means you get these really efficient numbers what that helped us do with, you know, some of the other partners that are involved in the benchmark as well. It meant that our throughput court, which is a really good measure of efficiency, is up to four times better than we ran it three years ago. So in terms of a sustainability piece, which is so important that that's really a huge improvement, that's down to application changes, architect changes as well as using appropriate technology in the right place. >>How important? With things like the number, of course, the memory size is the block sizes. All that stuff. >>We are very tiny. So this is the part. When I talk to people, we have what we call a system in the back of people. Look at me. Um, how many transactions on that one? So, to be fair, three-quarters, we're going to be one quarter or something else because we're still putting some components of and start procedures for disclosure. But when I think Seventy-five 1000 transactions on a single single 80 system, which is thirty-two cause you're saying correctly, something like that. This is a tiny machine in the world of banking. So before this was the main friends and now it's wonderful instance on a W s. And this is really amazing. Costed and environmental footprint is so, so important >>and there's a heavy right heavy environment. >>So the the way we the way we architect the solution is it follows something called a command query responsibility, segregated segregation. So what we do, we do all the commands inappropriate database for that piece, and that was running at about Twenty-five 1000 transactions a second and then we're streaming the data out of that directly into So actually I was doing more than the Seventy-five 1000 queries. A second, which is the part of it was also investing Twenty-five 1000 transactions the second at the same time >>and okay, and the workload had a high locality medium locality. It was just give us a picture of what that's like. Sorry. So, >>yeah, >>we don't have that. Yeah, >>so explain that That's not That's not the mindset for a document. Exactly. >>Exactly. In the document database, you don't have the hot spotting the one single field off the table, which is suddenly hot spotting. And now you have literally and recovery comes up and we say, What goes, goes together, get together belongs together, comes out together. So the number of, for example, it's much, much smaller and the document system, then historically, relationship. >>So it is not a good good indicator, necessarily >>anymore. That's what this is so much reduced. The number of access patterns are smaller, and I mean it is highly optimized, for example, internally as well. The internal structures, so that was very close to a >>traditional benchmark, would have a cash in front of a high cash rate. So 100 and 99% right, That's a high locality reference. But that's that's irrelevant. >>It's gone. There's no cashing in the middle anymore. It goes straight against the database. All these things are out, and that's what makes it so exciting and all the things in a real environment. I think we really need to stress it. It's not a test that at home. It's a real life environment out into the wild with the benchmark driving and driving. >>How did your customers respond? You did this for your recent event? >>Yeah, we did it for our use. A conference, our community for, um, which was a few weeks ago in London. Um, and the You know, the reaction was Certainly it was a great reception, of course, but the main thing that people are fascinated about, how much more efficient the whole platform it's explaining. So you know when we can run and it's a great number that we've got the team pulled out, which is so having doubled throughput on the platform from what we did three years ago, we're actually using 20% less infrastructure to give double the performance. Uh, macro-level, that's a phenomenal achievement. And that means that these changes that we make everything that we're doing benefits all of our customers. So all of the banks, when they take the latest release, is they get these benefits. Everything is that much more efficient. So everybody benefits from every investment, >>and this was running in the cloud. Is that correct? You're running out of this. >>So this was list, Um, 80 on a W s with a W s cases and processes. And so it was a really reality driven environment, >>pure pure cloud-native or using mana services on a W s. And then at least for the peace. It's >>awesome. I mean, uh, So now how convenient for the timing from, uh, the world. How are you socializing with your community? >>We're having this afternoon session as well, where we talk a little bit more detail about that, and he has a session as well tomorrow. So we see a lot of good feedback as well when we bring it up with clients. Obviously some clients get very specific because this reduction footprint is so huge when you think a client has 89 environments from early development systems to production to emergency standby, maybe a different cloud. All these things what day talks about the different Atlas features multi cloud environmentally. All this stuff comes to play. And this is why I'm so excited to work with them. We should bring up as well the other things which are available to ready already with your front and solutions with Infinity services because that's the other part of the modernization, the Michael Services, which Tony so politely not mentioning. So there's a lot of cool technology into that one, which fits to how it works in micros services. Happy I first all these what they called factors. Micro service a p. I cloud-native headless. I think that was the right order now. So all these things are reflected as well. But with their leadership chief now, I think a lot of companies have to play Catch-up now to what Tony and his team are delivering on the bank. This >>gets the modernization. We really haven't explicitly talks about that. Everything you've just said talks to modernization. So you typically in financial services find a lot of relation. Database twenty-year-old, hardened, etcetera, high availability. Give them credit for that. But a lot of times you'll see them just shift that into the cloud. You guys chose not to do that. What was the modernization journey look like? >>So it's a bit of, um yeah, a firm believer in pragmatism and using. I think you touched on earlier the appropriate technology. So >>horses for courses >>exactly right out of my mouth. And I was talking to one of the uh, the investor analysts earlier. And you know, the exact same question comes up, right? So if you've got a relation database or you've got a big legacy system and you're not gonna mainframe or whatever it is and you wanna pull that over when you it's not just a case of moving the data model from one paradigm to another. You need to look at it holistically, and you need to be ambitious. I think the industry has got, you know, quite nervous about some of these transformation projects, but in some ways it might be counter intuitive. I think being ambitious and being in bold is a better way. Better way through, you know, take take of you, look at it holistically. Layout of plan. It is hard. It is hard to do these sorts of transformations, but that's what makes it the challenge. That's what makes it fun. Take take those bold steps. Look at it holistically. Look at the end state and then work out a practical way. You can deliver value to the business and your customers as you deliver on the road. So >>did you migrate from a traditional R D B. M s to go. >>So So, Yeah, this is a conversation. So, uh, in the late nineties, the kind of the phrase document model hasn't really been coined yet. And for some of our work at the time, we refer to as a hierarchical model. Um, And at that point in time, really, if you wanted to sell to a bank, you needed to be running Oracle. So we took this data model and we got it running an article and then other relational databases as well, but actually under the colors there it is, sort of as well. So there is a project that we're looking at to say Well, okay, taking that model, which is in a relational database. And of course, you build over time, you do rely on some of the features of relations databases moving that over to something like, isn't it? You know, it's not quite as simple as just changing the data model. Um, so there's a few bits and pieces that we need to work through, but there is a concept that we are running, which is looking really promising and spurred on by the amazing results from the benchmark. That could be something That's really >>yeah, I think you know, 20 years ago you probably wouldn't even thought about it. It's just too risky. But today, with the modern tools and the cloud and you're talking about micro services and containers, it becomes potentially more feasible. >>But the other side of it is, you know, it's only relatively recently the Mongo who's had transaction support across multiple document multi collection transactions and in banking. As we all know, you know, it's highly regulated. That is, all of your worst possible non functional requirement. Security transaction reality. Thomas City You know, the whole the whole shebang. Your worst possible nightmare is Monday morning for >>us. So and I think one part which is exciting about this Tony is a very good practical example about this large scale modernization and cutting out by cutting off that layer and going back to the hierarchical internal structures. We're simply find a lot of the backing components of our because obviously translation which was done before, it's not need it anymore. And that is as well for me, an exciting example to see how long it takes what it is. So Tony space in my life experiments so to speak >>well, you're right because it used to be those migrations. Where how many line of code? How long do I have to freeze it? And that a lot of times lead people to say, Well, forget it, because the business is going to shut down. >>But now we do that. We do that. So I'm working, obviously, besides the work with a lot of financial clients, and but now it's my job is normally shift and left a pain in the game because the result of the work is when they move everything to the cloud and it was bad before. It will not be better in the cloud only because it's in somebody else's data center. So these modernization and innovation factor is absolutely critical. And it's only said that people get it by now. This shift and left over it is how can I innovate? How can accelerate innovation, and that leads very quickly to the document model discussion. >>Yeah, I think the world practitioners will tell you, if you really want to affect the operational model, have a meaningful impact on your business. You have to really modernized. You can't just lift shift that they're absolutely. You know, what's the difference between hundreds of millions or billions in some cases, versus, you know, some nice little hits here or there. >>So we see as well a lot of clients asking for solutions like the terminal solutions. And like others where there is not anymore discussion about how to move to the The question is how fast how can accelerate. We see the services request the first one. It's amazing. After the event, what we had in London, 100 clients calling us. So it's not our sales people calling upon the clients, the clients coming in. I saw it. How do we get started? And that is for me, from the vendor perspective, so to speak. Amazing moment >>yourself. You go, guys, we're gonna go. Thanks so much for that. You have to have you back and see how that goes. That. Yeah, that's a big story of if you're a great All right, keep it right there. Everybody will be right back. This is David for the Cube. You're watching our live coverage of mongo D B World 20 twenty-two from New York City. >>Yeah, >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

>>from around the globe. It's the Q with digital coverage of exa scale day made possible by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Welcome, everyone to the Cube celebration of Exa Scale Day. Shaheen Khan is here. He's the founding partner, an analyst at Orion X And, among other things, he is the co host of Radio free HPC Shaheen. Welcome. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks for being here, Dave. Great to be here. How are you >>doing? Well, thanks. Crazy with doing these things, Cove in remote interviews. I wish we were face to face at us at a supercomputer show, but, hey, this thing is working. We can still have great conversations. And And I love talking to analysts like you because you bring an independent perspective. You're very wide observation space. So So let me, Like many analysts, you probably have sort of a mental model or a market model that you look at. So maybe talk about your your work, how you look at the market, and we could get into some of the mega trends that you see >>very well. Very well. Let me just quickly set the scene. We fundamentally track the megatrends of the Information Age And, of course, because we're in the information age, digital transformation falls out of that. And the megatrends that drive that in our mind is Ayotte, because that's the fountain of data five G. Because that's how it's gonna get communicated ai and HBC because that's how we're gonna make sense of it Blockchain and Cryptocurrencies because that's how it's gonna get transacted on. That's how value is going to get transferred from the place took place and then finally, quantum computing, because that exemplifies how things are gonna get accelerated. >>So let me ask you So I spent a lot of time, but I D. C and I had the pleasure of of the High Performance computing group reported into me. I wasn't an HPC analyst, but over time you listen to those guys, you learning. And as I recall, it was HPC was everywhere, and it sounds like we're still seeing that trend where, whether it was, you know, the Internet itself were certainly big data, you know, coming into play. Uh, you know, defense, obviously. But is your background mawr HPC or so that these other technologies that you're talking about it sounds like it's your high performance computing expert market watcher. And then you see it permeating into all these trends. Is that a fair statement? >>That's a fair statement. I did grow up in HPC. My first job out of school was working for an IBM fellow doing payroll processing in the old days on and and And it went from there, I worked for Cray Research. I worked for floating point systems, so I grew up in HPC. But then, over time, uh, we had experiences outside of HPC. So for a number of years, I had to go do commercial enterprise computing and learn about transaction processing and business intelligence and, you know, data warehousing and things like that, and then e commerce and then Web technology. So over time it's sort of expanded. But HPC is a like a bug. You get it and you can't get rid of because it's just so inspiring. So supercomputing has always been my home, so to say >>well and so the reason I ask is I wanted to touch on a little history of the industry is there was kind of a renaissance in many, many years ago, and you had all these startups you had Kendall Square Research Danny Hillis thinking machines. You had convex trying to make many supercomputers. And it was just this This is, you know, tons of money flowing in and and then, you know, things kind of consolidate a little bit and, uh, things got very, very specialized. And then with the big data craze, you know, we've seen HPC really at the heart of all that. So what's your take on on the ebb and flow of the HPC business and how it's evolved? >>Well, HBC was always trying to make sense of the world, was trying to make sense of nature. And of course, as much as we do know about nature, there's a lot we don't know about nature and problems in nature are you can classify those problems into basically linear and nonlinear problems. The linear ones are easy. They've already been solved. The nonlinear wants. Some of them are easy. Many of them are hard, the nonlinear, hard, chaotic. All of those problems are the ones that you really need to solve. The closer you get. So HBC was basically marching along trying to solve these things. It had a whole process, you know, with the scientific method going way back to Galileo, the experimentation that was part of it. And then between theory, you got to look at the experiment and the data. You kind of theorize things. And then you experimented to prove the theories and then simulation and using the computers to validate some things eventually became a third pillar of off science. On you had theory, experiment and simulation. So all of that was going on until the rest of the world, thanks to digitization, started needing some of those same techniques. Why? Because you've got too much data. Simply, there's too much data to ship to the cloud. There's too much data to, uh, make sense of without math and science. So now enterprise computing problems are starting to look like scientific problems. Enterprise data centers are starting to look like national lab data centers, and there is that sort of a convergence that has been taking place gradually, really over the past 34 decades. And it's starting to look really, really now >>interesting, I want I want to ask you about. I was like to talk to analysts about, you know, competition. The competitive landscape is the competition in HPC. Is it between vendors or countries? >>Well, this is a very interesting thing you're saying, because our other thesis is that we are moving a little bit beyond geopolitics to techno politics. And there are now, uh, imperatives at the political level that are driving some of these decisions. Obviously, five G is very visible as as as a piece of technology that is now in the middle of political discussions. Covert 19 as you mentioned itself, is a challenge that is a global challenge that needs to be solved at that level. Ai, who has access to how much data and what sort of algorithms. And it turns out as we all know that for a I, you need a lot more data than you thought. You do so suddenly. Data superiority is more important perhaps than even. It can lead to information superiority. So, yeah, that's really all happening. But the actors, of course, continue to be the vendors that are the embodiment of the algorithms and the data and the systems and infrastructure that feed the applications. So to say >>so let's get into some of these mega trends, and maybe I'll ask you some Colombo questions and weaken geek out a little bit. Let's start with a you know, again, it was one of this when I started the industry. It's all it was a i expert systems. It was all the rage. And then we should have had this long ai winter, even though, you know, the technology never went away. But But there were at least two things that happened. You had all this data on then the cost of computing. You know, declines came down so so rapidly over the years. So now a eyes back, we're seeing all kinds of applications getting infused into virtually every part of our lives. People trying to advertise to us, etcetera. Eso So talk about the intersection of AI and HPC. What are you seeing there? >>Yeah, definitely. Like you said, I has a long history. I mean, you know, it came out of MIT Media Lab and the AI Lab that they had back then and it was really, as you mentioned, all focused on expert systems. It was about logical processing. It was a lot of if then else. And then it morphed into search. How do I search for the right answer, you know, needle in the haystack. But then, at some point, it became computational. Neural nets are not a new idea. I remember you know, we had we had a We had a researcher in our lab who was doing neural networks, you know, years ago. And he was just saying how he was running out of computational power and we couldn't. We were wondering, you know what? What's taking all this difficult, You know, time. And it turns out that it is computational. So when deep neural nets showed up about a decade ago, arm or it finally started working and it was a confluence of a few things. Thalib rhythms were there, the data sets were there, and the technology was there in the form of GPS and accelerators that finally made distractible. So you really could say, as in I do say that a I was kind of languishing for decades before HPC Technologies reignited it. And when you look at deep learning, which is really the only part of a I that has been prominent and has made all this stuff work, it's all HPC. It's all matrix algebra. It's all signal processing algorithms. are computational. The infrastructure is similar to H B. C. The skill set that you need is the skill set of HPC. I see a lot of interest in HBC talent right now in part motivated by a I >>mhm awesome. Thank you on. Then I wanna talk about Blockchain and I can't talk about Blockchain without talking about crypto you've written. You've written about that? I think, you know, obviously supercomputers play a role. I think you had written that 50 of the top crypto supercomputers actually reside in in China A lot of times the vendor community doesn't like to talk about crypto because you know that you know the fraud and everything else. But it's one of the more interesting use cases is actually the primary use case for Blockchain even though Blockchain has so much other potential. But what do you see in Blockchain? The potential of that technology And maybe we can work in a little crypto talk as well. >>Yeah, I think 11 simple way to think of Blockchain is in terms off so called permission and permission less the permission block chains or when everybody kind of knows everybody and you don't really get to participate without people knowing who you are and as a result, have some basis to trust your behavior and your transactions. So things are a lot calmer. It's a lot easier. You don't really need all the supercomputing activity. Whereas for AI the assertion was that intelligence is computer herbal. And with some of these exa scale technologies, we're trying to, you know, we're getting to that point for permission. Less Blockchain. The assertion is that trust is computer ble and, it turns out for trust to be computer ble. It's really computational intensive because you want to provide an incentive based such that good actors are rewarded and back actors. Bad actors are punished, and it is worth their while to actually put all their effort towards good behavior. And that's really what you see, embodied in like a Bitcoin system where the chain has been safe over the many years. It's been no attacks, no breeches. Now people have lost money because they forgot the password or some other. You know, custody of the accounts have not been trustable, but the chain itself has managed to produce that, So that's an example of computational intensity yielding trust. So that suddenly becomes really interesting intelligence trust. What else is computer ble that we could do if we if we had enough power? >>Well, that's really interesting the way you described it, essentially the the confluence of crypto graphics software engineering and, uh, game theory, Really? Where the bad actors air Incentive Thio mined Bitcoin versus rip people off because it's because because there are lives better eso eso so that so So Okay, so make it make the connection. I mean, you sort of did. But But I want to better understand the connection between, you know, supercomputing and HPC and Blockchain. We know we get a crypto for sure, like in mind a Bitcoin which gets harder and harder and harder. Um and you mentioned there's other things that we can potentially compute on trust. Like what? What else? What do you thinking there? >>Well, I think that, you know, the next big thing that we are really seeing is in communication. And it turns out, as I was saying earlier, that these highly computational intensive algorithms and models show up in all sorts of places like, you know, in five g communication, there's something called the memo multi and multi out and to optimally manage that traffic such that you know exactly what beam it's going to and worth Antenna is coming from that turns out to be a non trivial, you know, partial differential equation. So next thing you know, you've got HPC in there as and he didn't expect it because there's so much data to be sent, you really have to do some data reduction and data processing almost at the point of inception, if not at the point of aggregation. So that has led to edge computing and edge data centers. And that, too, is now. People want some level of computational capability at that place like you're building a microcontroller, which traditionally would just be a, you know, small, low power, low cost thing. And people want victor instructions. There. People want matrix algebra there because it makes sense to process the data before you have to ship it. So HPCs cropping up really everywhere. And then finally, when you're trying to accelerate things that obviously GP use have been a great example of that mixed signal technologies air coming to do analog and digital at the same time, quantum technologies coming so you could do the you know, the usual analysts to buy to where you have analog, digital, classical quantum and then see which, you know, with what lies where all of that is coming. And all of that is essentially resting on HBC. >>That's interesting. I didn't realize that HBC had that position in five G with multi and multi out. That's great example and then I o t. I want to ask you about that because there's a lot of discussion about real time influencing AI influencing at the edge on you're seeing sort of new computing architectures, potentially emerging, uh, video. The acquisition of arm Perhaps, you know, amore efficient way, maybe a lower cost way of doing specialized computing at the edge it, But it sounds like you're envisioning, actually, supercomputing at the edge. Of course, we've talked to Dr Mark Fernandez about space born computers. That's like the ultimate edge you got. You have supercomputers hanging on the ceiling of the International space station, but But how far away are we from this sort of edge? Maybe not. Space is an extreme example, but you think factories and windmills and all kinds of edge examples where supercomputing is is playing a local role. >>Well, I think initially you're going to see it on base stations, Antenna towers, where you're aggregating data from a large number of endpoints and sensors that are gathering the data, maybe do some level of local processing and then ship it to the local antenna because it's no more than 100 m away sort of a thing. But there is enough there that that thing can now do the processing and do some level of learning and decide what data to ship back to the cloud and what data to get rid of and what data to just hold. Or now those edge data centers sitting on top of an antenna. They could have a half a dozen GPS in them. They're pretty powerful things. They could have, you know, one they could have to, but but it could be depending on what you do. A good a good case study. There is like surveillance cameras. You don't really need to ship every image back to the cloud. And if you ever need it, the guy who needs it is gonna be on the scene, not back at the cloud. So there is really no sense in sending it, Not certainly not every frame. So maybe you can do some processing and send an image every five seconds or every 10 seconds, and that way you can have a record of it. But you've reduced your bandwidth by orders of magnitude. So things like that are happening. And toe make sense of all of that is to recognize when things changed. Did somebody come into the scene or is it just you know that you know, they became night, So that's sort of a decision. Cannot be automated and fundamentally what is making it happen? It may not be supercomputing exa scale class, but it's definitely HPCs, definitely numerically oriented technologies. >>Shane, what do you see happening in chip architectures? Because, you see, you know the classical intel they're trying to put as much function on the real estate as possible. We've seen the emergence of alternative processors, particularly, uh, GP use. But even if f b g A s, I mentioned the arm acquisition, so you're seeing these alternative processors really gain momentum and you're seeing data processing units emerge and kind of interesting trends going on there. What do you see? And what's the relationship to HPC? >>Well, I think a few things are going on there. Of course, one is, uh, essentially the end of Moore's law, where you cannot make the cycle time be any faster, so you have to do architectural adjustments. And then if you have a killer app that lends itself to large volume, you can build silicon. That is especially good for that now. Graphics and gaming was an example of that, and people said, Oh my God, I've got all these cores in there. Why can't I use it for computation? So everybody got busy making it 64 bit capable and some grass capability, And then people say, Oh, I know I can use that for a I And you know, now you move it to a I say, Well, I don't really need 64 but maybe I can do it in 32 or 16. So now you do it for that, and then tens, of course, come about. And so there's that sort of a progression of architecture, er trumping, basically cycle time. That's one thing. The second thing is scale out and decentralization and distributed computing. And that means that the inter communication and intra communication among all these notes now becomes an issue big enough issue that maybe it makes sense to go to a DPU. Maybe it makes sense to go do some level of, you know, edge data centers like we were talking about on then. The third thing, really is that in many of these cases you have data streaming. What is really coming from I o t, especially an edge, is that data is streaming and when data streaming suddenly new architectures like F B G. A s become really interesting and and and hold promise. So I do see, I do see FPG's becoming more prominent just for that reason, but then finally got a program all of these things on. That's really a difficulty, because what happens now is that you need to get three different ecosystems together mobile programming, embedded programming and cloud programming. And those are really three different developer types. You can't hire somebody who's good at all three. I mean, maybe you can, but not many. So all of that is challenges that are driving this this this this industry, >>you kind of referred to this distributed network and a lot of people you know, they refer to this. The next generation cloud is this hyper distributed system. When you include the edge and multiple clouds that etcetera space, maybe that's too extreme. But to your point, at least I inferred there's a There's an issue of Leighton. See, there's the speed of light s So what? What? What is the implication then for HBC? Does that mean I have tow Have all the data in one place? Can I move the compute to the data architecturally, What are you seeing there? >>Well, you fundamentally want to optimize when to move data and when to move, Compute. Right. So is it better to move data to compute? Or is it better to bring compute to data and under what conditions? And the dancer is gonna be different for different use cases. It's like, really, is it worth my while to make the trip, get my processing done and then come back? Or should I just developed processing capability right here? Moving data is really expensive and relatively speaking. It has become even more expensive, while the price of everything has dropped down its price has dropped less than than than like processing. So it is now starting to make sense to do a lot of local processing because processing is cheap and moving data is expensive Deep Use an example of that, Uh, you know, we call this in C two processing like, you know, let's not move data. If you don't have to accept that we live in the age of big data, so data is huge and wants to be moved. And that optimization, I think, is part of what you're what you're referring to. >>Yeah, So a couple examples might be autonomous vehicles. You gotta have to make decisions in real time. You can't send data back to the cloud flip side of that is we talk about space borne computers. You're collecting all this data You can at some point. You know, maybe it's a year or two after the lived out its purpose. You ship that data back and a bunch of disk drives or flash drives, and then load it up into some kind of HPC system and then have at it and then you doom or modeling and learn from that data corpus, right? I mean those air, >>right? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, you know, driverless vehicles is a great example, because it is obviously coming fast and furious, no pun intended. And also, it dovetails nicely with the smart city, which dovetails nicely with I o. T. Because it is in an urban area. Mostly, you can afford to have a lot of antenna, so you can give it the five g density that you want. And it requires the Layton sees. There's a notion of how about if my fleet could communicate with each other. What if the car in front of me could let me know what it sees, That sort of a thing. So, you know, vehicle fleets is going to be in a non opportunity. All of that can bring all of what we talked about. 21 place. >>Well, that's interesting. Okay, so yeah, the fleets talking to each other. So kind of a Byzantine fault. Tolerance. That problem that you talk about that z kind of cool. I wanna I wanna sort of clothes on quantum. It's hard to get your head around. Sometimes You see the demonstrations of quantum. It's not a one or zero. It could be both. And you go, What? How did come that being so? And And of course, there it's not stable. Uh, looks like it's quite a ways off, but the potential is enormous. It's of course, it's scary because we think all of our, you know, passwords are already, you know, not secure. And every password we know it's gonna get broken. But give us the give us the quantum 101 And let's talk about what the implications. >>All right, very well. So first off, we don't need to worry about our passwords quite yet. That that that's that's still ways off. It is true that analgesic DM came up that showed how quantum computers can fact arise numbers relatively fast and prime factory ization is at the core of a lot of cryptology algorithms. So if you can fact arise, you know, if you get you know, number 21 you say, Well, that's three times seven, and those three, you know, three and seven or prime numbers. Uh, that's an example of a problem that has been solved with quantum computing, but if you have an actual number, would like, you know, 2000 digits in it. That's really harder to do. It's impossible to do for existing computers and even for quantum computers. Ways off, however. So as you mentioned, cubits can be somewhere between zero and one, and you're trying to create cubits Now there are many different ways of building cubits. You can do trapped ions, trapped ion trapped atoms, photons, uh, sometimes with super cool, sometimes not super cool. But fundamentally, you're trying to get these quantum level elements or particles into a superimposed entanglement state. And there are different ways of doing that, which is why quantum computers out there are pursuing a lot of different ways. The whole somebody said it's really nice that quantum computing is simultaneously overhyped and underestimated on. And that is that is true because there's a lot of effort that is like ways off. On the other hand, it is so exciting that you don't want to miss out if it's going to get somewhere. So it is rapidly progressing, and it has now morphed into three different segments. Quantum computing, quantum communication and quantum sensing. Quantum sensing is when you can measure really precise my new things because when you perturb them the quantum effects can allow you to measure them. Quantum communication is working its way, especially in financial services, initially with quantum key distribution, where the key to your cryptography is sent in a quantum way. And the data sent a traditional way that our efforts to do quantum Internet, where you actually have a quantum photon going down the fiber optic lines and Brookhaven National Labs just now demonstrated a couple of weeks ago going pretty much across the, you know, Long Island and, like 87 miles or something. So it's really coming, and and fundamentally, it's going to be brand new algorithms. >>So these examples that you're giving these air all in the lab right there lab projects are actually >>some of them are in the lab projects. Some of them are out there. Of course, even traditional WiFi has benefited from quantum computing or quantum analysis and, you know, algorithms. But some of them are really like quantum key distribution. If you're a bank in New York City, you very well could go to a company and by quantum key distribution services and ship it across the you know, the waters to New Jersey on that is happening right now. Some researchers in China and Austria showed a quantum connection from, like somewhere in China, to Vienna, even as far away as that. When you then put the satellite and the nano satellites and you know, the bent pipe networks that are being talked about out there, that brings another flavor to it. So, yes, some of it is like real. Some of it is still kind of in the last. >>How about I said I would end the quantum? I just e wanna ask you mentioned earlier that sort of the geopolitical battles that are going on, who's who are the ones to watch in the Who? The horses on the track, obviously United States, China, Japan. Still pretty prominent. How is that shaping up in your >>view? Well, without a doubt, it's the US is to lose because it's got the density and the breadth and depth of all the technologies across the board. On the other hand, information age is a new eyes. Their revolution information revolution is is not trivial. And when revolutions happen, unpredictable things happen, so you gotta get it right and and one of the things that these technologies enforce one of these. These revolutions enforce is not just kind of technological and social and governance, but also culture, right? The example I give is that if you're a farmer, it takes you maybe a couple of seasons before you realize that you better get up at the crack of dawn and you better do it in this particular season. You're gonna starve six months later. So you do that to three years in a row. A culture has now been enforced on you because that's how it needs. And then when you go to industrialization, you realize that Gosh, I need these factories. And then, you know I need workers. And then next thing you know, you got 9 to 5 jobs and you didn't have that before. You don't have a command and control system. You had it in military, but not in business. And and some of those cultural shifts take place on and change. So I think the winner is going to be whoever shows the most agility in terms off cultural norms and governance and and and pursuit of actual knowledge and not being distracted by what you think. But what actually happens and Gosh, I think these exa scale technologies can make the difference. >>Shaheen Khan. Great cast. Thank you so much for joining us to celebrate the extra scale day, which is, uh, on 10. 18 on dso. Really? Appreciate your insights. >>Likewise. Thank you so much. >>All right. Thank you for watching. Keep it right there. We'll be back with our next guest right here in the Cube. We're celebrating Exa scale day right back.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering >>space and cybersecurity. Symposium 2020 hosted by Cal Poly >>Over On Welcome to this Special virtual conference. The Space and Cybersecurity Symposium 2020 put on by Cal Poly with support from the Cube. I'm John for your host and master of ceremonies. Got a great topic today in this session. Really? The intersection of space and cybersecurity. This topic and this conversation is the cybersecurity workforce development through public and private partnerships. And we've got a great lineup. We have Jeff Armstrong's the president of California Polytechnic State University, also known as Cal Poly Jeffrey. Thanks for jumping on and Bang. Go ahead. The second director of C four s R Division. And he's joining us from the office of the Under Secretary of Defense for the acquisition Sustainment Department of Defense, D O D. And, of course, Steve Jake's executive director, founder, National Security Space Association and managing partner at Bello's. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me for this session. We got an hour conversation. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. >>So we got a virtual event here. We've got an hour, have a great conversation and love for you guys do? In opening statement on how you see the development through public and private partnerships around cybersecurity in space, Jeff will start with you. >>Well, thanks very much, John. It's great to be on with all of you. Uh, on behalf Cal Poly Welcome, everyone. Educating the workforce of tomorrow is our mission to Cal Poly. Whether that means traditional undergraduates, master students are increasingly mid career professionals looking toe up, skill or re skill. Our signature pedagogy is learn by doing, which means that our graduates arrive at employers ready Day one with practical skills and experience. We have long thought of ourselves is lucky to be on California's beautiful central Coast. But in recent years, as we have developed closer relationships with Vandenberg Air Force Base, hopefully the future permanent headquarters of the United States Space Command with Vandenberg and other regional partners, we have discovered that our location is even more advantages than we thought. We're just 50 miles away from Vandenberg, a little closer than u C. Santa Barbara, and the base represents the southern border of what we have come to think of as the central coast region. Cal Poly and Vandenberg Air force base have partner to support regional economic development to encourage the development of a commercial spaceport toe advocate for the space Command headquarters coming to Vandenberg and other ventures. These partnerships have been possible because because both parties stand to benefit Vandenberg by securing new streams of revenue, workforce and local supply chain and Cal Poly by helping to grow local jobs for graduates, internship opportunities for students, and research and entrepreneurship opportunities for faculty and staff. Crucially, what's good for Vandenberg Air Force Base and for Cal Poly is also good for the Central Coast and the US, creating new head of household jobs, infrastructure and opportunity. Our goal is that these new jobs bring more diversity and sustainability for the region. This regional economic development has taken on a life of its own, spawning a new nonprofit called Reach, which coordinates development efforts from Vandenberg Air Force Base in the South to camp to Camp Roberts in the North. Another factor that is facilitated our relationship with Vandenberg Air Force Base is that we have some of the same friends. For example, Northrop Grumman has has long been an important defense contractor, an important partner to Cal poly funding scholarships and facilities that have allowed us to stay current with technology in it to attract highly qualified students for whom Cal Poly's costs would otherwise be prohibitive. For almost 20 years north of grimness funded scholarships for Cal Poly students this year, their funding 64 scholarships, some directly in our College of Engineering and most through our Cal Poly Scholars program, Cal Poly Scholars, a support both incoming freshman is transfer students. These air especially important because it allows us to provide additional support and opportunities to a group of students who are mostly first generation, low income and underrepresented and who otherwise might not choose to attend Cal Poly. They also allow us to recruit from partner high schools with large populations of underrepresented minority students, including the Fortune High School in Elk Grove, which we developed a deep and lasting connection. We know that the best work is done by balanced teams that include multiple and diverse perspectives. These scholarships help us achieve that goal, and I'm sure you know Northrop Grumman was recently awarded a very large contract to modernized the U. S. I. C B M Armory with some of the work being done at Vandenberg Air Force Base, thus supporting the local economy and protecting protecting our efforts in space requires partnerships in the digital realm. How Polly is partnered with many private companies, such as AWS. Our partnerships with Amazon Web services has enabled us to train our students with next generation cloud engineering skills, in part through our jointly created digital transformation hub. Another partnership example is among Cal Poly's California Cybersecurity Institute, College of Engineering and the California National Guard. This partnership is focused on preparing a cyber ready workforce by providing faculty and students with a hands on research and learning environment, side by side with military, law enforcement professionals and cyber experts. We also have a long standing partnership with PG and E, most recently focused on workforce development and redevelopment. Many of our graduates do indeed go on to careers in aerospace and defense industry as a rough approximation. More than 4500 Cal Poly graduates list aerospace and defense as their employment sector on linked in, and it's not just our engineers and computer sciences. When I was speaking to our fellow Panelists not too long ago, >>are >>speaking to bang, we learned that Rachel sins, one of our liberal arts arts majors, is working in his office. So shout out to you, Rachel. And then finally, of course, some of our graduates sword extraordinary heights such as Commander Victor Glover, who will be heading to the International space station later this year as I close. All of which is to say that we're deeply committed the workforce, development and redevelopment that we understand the value of public private partnerships and that were eager to find new ways in which to benefit everyone from this further cooperation. So we're committed to the region, the state in the nation and our past efforts in space, cybersecurity and links to our partners at as I indicated, aerospace industry and governmental partners provides a unique position for us to move forward in the interface of space and cybersecurity. Thank you so much, John. >>President, I'm sure thank you very much for the comments and congratulations to Cal Poly for being on the forefront of innovation and really taking a unique progressive. You and wanna tip your hat to you guys over there. Thank you very much for those comments. Appreciate it. Bahng. Department of Defense. Exciting you gotta defend the nation spaces Global. Your opening statement. >>Yes, sir. Thanks, John. Appreciate that day. Thank you, everybody. I'm honored to be this panel along with President Armstrong, Cal Poly in my long longtime friend and colleague Steve Jakes of the National Security Space Association, to discuss a very important topic of cybersecurity workforce development, as President Armstrong alluded to, I'll tell you both of these organizations, Cal Poly and the N S. A have done and continue to do an exceptional job at finding talent, recruiting them in training current and future leaders and technical professionals that we vitally need for our nation's growing space programs. A swell Asare collective National security Earlier today, during Session three high, along with my colleague Chris Hansen discussed space, cyber Security and how the space domain is changing the landscape of future conflicts. I discussed the rapid emergence of commercial space with the proliferations of hundreds, if not thousands, of satellites providing a variety of services, including communications allowing for global Internet connectivity. S one example within the O. D. We continue to look at how we can leverage this opportunity. I'll tell you one of the enabling technologies eyes the use of small satellites, which are inherently cheaper and perhaps more flexible than the traditional bigger systems that we have historically used unemployed for the U. D. Certainly not lost on Me is the fact that Cal Poly Pioneer Cube SATs 2020 some years ago, and they set the standard for the use of these systems today. So they saw the valiant benefit gained way ahead of everybody else, it seems, and Cal Poly's focus on training and education is commendable. I especially impressed by the efforts of another of Steve's I colleague, current CEO Mr Bill Britain, with his high energy push to attract the next generation of innovators. Uh, earlier this year, I had planned on participating in this year's Cyber Innovation Challenge. In June works Cal Poly host California Mill and high school students and challenge them with situations to test their cyber knowledge. I tell you, I wish I had that kind of opportunity when I was a kid. Unfortunately, the pandemic change the plan. Why I truly look forward. Thio feature events such as these Thio participating. Now I want to recognize my good friend Steve Jakes, whom I've known for perhaps too long of a time here over two decades or so, who was in acknowledge space expert and personally, I truly applaud him for having the foresight of years back to form the National Security Space Association to help the entire space enterprise navigate through not only technology but Polly policy issues and challenges and paved the way for operational izing space. Space is our newest horrifying domain. That's not a secret anymore. Uh, and while it is a unique area, it shares a lot of common traits with the other domains such as land, air and sea, obviously all of strategically important to the defense of the United States. In conflict they will need to be. They will all be contested and therefore they all need to be defended. One domain alone will not win future conflicts in a joint operation. We must succeed. All to defending space is critical as critical is defending our other operational domains. Funny space is no longer the sanctuary available only to the government. Increasingly, as I discussed in the previous session, commercial space is taking the lead a lot of different areas, including R and D, A so called new space, so cyber security threat is even more demanding and even more challenging. Three US considers and federal access to and freedom to operate in space vital to advancing security, economic prosperity, prosperity and scientific knowledge of the country. That's making cyberspace an inseparable component. America's financial, social government and political life. We stood up US Space force ah, year ago or so as the newest military service is like the other services. Its mission is to organize, train and equip space forces in order to protect us and allied interest in space and to provide space capabilities to the joint force. Imagine combining that US space force with the U. S. Cyber Command to unify the direction of space and cyberspace operation strengthened U D capabilities and integrate and bolster d o d cyber experience. Now, of course, to enable all of this requires had trained and professional cadre of cyber security experts, combining a good mix of policy as well as high technical skill set much like we're seeing in stem, we need to attract more people to this growing field. Now the D. O. D. Is recognized the importance of the cybersecurity workforce, and we have implemented policies to encourage his growth Back in 2013 the deputy secretary of defense signed the D. O d cyberspace workforce strategy to create a comprehensive, well equipped cyber security team to respond to national security concerns. Now this strategy also created a program that encourages collaboration between the D. O. D and private sector employees. We call this the Cyber Information Technology Exchange program or site up. It's an exchange programs, which is very interesting, in which a private sector employees can naturally work for the D. O. D. In a cyber security position that spans across multiple mission critical areas are important to the d. O. D. A key responsibility of cybersecurity community is military leaders on the related threats and cyber security actions we need to have to defeat these threats. We talk about rapid that position, agile business processes and practices to speed up innovation. Likewise, cybersecurity must keep up with this challenge to cyber security. Needs to be right there with the challenges and changes, and this requires exceptional personnel. We need to attract talent investing the people now to grow a robust cybersecurity, workforce, streets, future. I look forward to the panel discussion, John. Thank you. >>Thank you so much bomb for those comments and you know, new challenges and new opportunities and new possibilities and free freedom Operating space. Critical. Thank you for those comments. Looking forward. Toa chatting further. Steve Jakes, executive director of N. S. S. A Europe opening statement. >>Thank you, John. And echoing bangs thanks to Cal Poly for pulling these this important event together and frankly, for allowing the National Security Space Association be a part of it. Likewise, we on behalf the association delighted and honored Thio be on this panel with President Armstrong along with my friend and colleague Bonneau Glue Mahad Something for you all to know about Bomb. He spent the 1st 20 years of his career in the Air Force doing space programs. He then went into industry for several years and then came back into government to serve. Very few people do that. So bang on behalf of the space community, we thank you for your long life long devotion to service to our nation. We really appreciate that and I also echo a bang shot out to that guy Bill Britain, who has been a long time co conspirator of ours for a long time and you're doing great work there in the cyber program at Cal Poly Bill, keep it up. But professor arms trying to keep a close eye on him. Uh, I would like to offer a little extra context to the great comments made by by President Armstrong and bahng. Uh, in our view, the timing of this conference really could not be any better. Um, we all recently reflected again on that tragic 9 11 surprise attack on our homeland. And it's an appropriate time, we think, to take pause while the percentage of you in the audience here weren't even born or babies then For the most of us, it still feels like yesterday. And moreover, a tragedy like 9 11 has taught us a lot to include to be more vigilant, always keep our collective eyes and ears open to include those quote eyes and ears from space, making sure nothing like this ever happens again. So this conference is a key aspect. Protecting our nation requires we work in a cybersecurity environment at all times. But, you know, the fascinating thing about space systems is we can't see him. No, sir, We see Space launches man there's nothing more invigorating than that. But after launch, they become invisible. So what are they really doing up there? What are they doing to enable our quality of life in the United States and in the world? Well, to illustrate, I'd like to paraphrase elements of an article in Forbes magazine by Bonds and my good friend Chuck Beans. Chuck. It's a space guy, actually had Bonds job a fuse in the Pentagon. He is now chairman and chief strategy officer at York Space Systems, and in his spare time he's chairman of the small satellites. Chuck speaks in words that everyone can understand. So I'd like to give you some of his words out of his article. Uh, they're afraid somewhat. So these are Chuck's words. Let's talk about average Joe and playing Jane. Before heading to the airport for a business trip to New York City, Joe checks the weather forecast informed by Noah's weather satellites to see what pack for the trip. He then calls an uber that space app. Everybody uses it matches riders with drivers via GPS to take into the airport, So Joe has lunch of the airport. Unbeknownst to him, his organic lunch is made with the help of precision farming made possible through optimized irrigation and fertilization, with remote spectral sensing coming from space and GPS on the plane, the pilot navigates around weather, aided by GPS and nose weather satellites. And Joe makes his meeting on time to join his New York colleagues in a video call with a key customer in Singapore made possible by telecommunication satellites. Around to his next meeting, Joe receives notice changing the location of the meeting to another to the other side of town. So he calmly tells Syria to adjust the destination, and his satellite guided Google maps redirects him to the new location. That evening, Joe watches the news broadcast via satellite. The report details a meeting among world leaders discussing the developing crisis in Syria. As it turns out, various forms of quote remotely sensed. Information collected from satellites indicate that yet another band, chemical weapon, may have been used on its own people. Before going to bed, Joe decides to call his parents and congratulate them for their wedding anniversary as they cruise across the Atlantic, made possible again by communications satellites and Joe's parents can enjoy the call without even wondering how it happened the next morning. Back home, Joe's wife, Jane, is involved in a car accident. Her vehicle skids off the road. She's knocked unconscious, but because of her satellite equipped on star system, the crash is detected immediately and first responders show up on the scene. In time, Joe receives the news books. An early trip home sends flowers to his wife as he orders another uber to the airport. Over that 24 hours, Joe and Jane used space system applications for nearly every part of their day. Imagine the consequences if at any point they were somehow denied these services, whether they be by natural causes or a foreign hostility. And each of these satellite applications used in this case were initially developed for military purposes and continue to be, but also have remarkable application on our way of life. Just many people just don't know that. So, ladies and gentlemen, now you know, thanks to chuck beans, well, the United States has a proud heritage being the world's leading space faring nation, dating back to the Eisenhower and Kennedy years. Today we have mature and robust systems operating from space, providing overhead reconnaissance to quote, wash and listen, provide missile warning, communications, positioning, navigation and timing from our GPS system. Much of what you heard in Lieutenant General J. T. Thompson earlier speech. These systems are not only integral to our national security, but also our also to our quality of life is Chuck told us. We simply no longer could live without these systems as a nation and for that matter, as a world. But over the years, adversary like adversaries like China, Russia and other countries have come to realize the value of space systems and are aggressively playing ketchup while also pursuing capabilities that will challenge our systems. As many of you know, in 2000 and seven, China demonstrated it's a set system by actually shooting down is one of its own satellites and has been aggressively developing counter space systems to disrupt hours. So in a heavily congested space environment, our systems are now being contested like never before and will continue to bay well as Bond mentioned, the United States has responded to these changing threats. In addition to adding ways to protect our system, the administration and in Congress recently created the United States Space Force and the operational you United States Space Command, the latter of which you heard President Armstrong and other Californians hope is going to be located. Vandenberg Air Force Base Combined with our intelligence community today, we have focused military and civilian leadership now in space. And that's a very, very good thing. Commence, really. On the industry side, we did create the National Security Space Association devoted solely to supporting the national security Space Enterprise. We're based here in the D C area, but we have arms and legs across the country, and we are loaded with extraordinary talent. In scores of Forman, former government executives, So S s a is joined at the hip with our government customers to serve and to support. We're busy with a multitude of activities underway ranging from a number of thought provoking policy. Papers are recurring space time Webcast supporting Congress's Space Power Caucus and other main serious efforts. Check us out at NSS. A space dot org's One of our strategic priorities in central to today's events is to actively promote and nurture the workforce development. Just like cow calling. We will work with our U. S. Government customers, industry leaders and academia to attract and recruit students to join the space world, whether in government or industry and two assistant mentoring and training as their careers. Progress on that point, we're delighted. Be delighted to be working with Cal Poly as we hopefully will undertake a new pilot program with him very soon. So students stay tuned something I can tell you Space is really cool. While our nation's satellite systems are technical and complex, our nation's government and industry work force is highly diverse, with a combination of engineers, physicists, method and mathematicians, but also with a large non technical expertise as well. Think about how government gets things thes systems designed, manufactured, launching into orbit and operating. They do this via contracts with our aerospace industry, requiring talents across the board from cost estimating cost analysis, budgeting, procurement, legal and many other support. Tasker Integral to the mission. Many thousands of people work in the space workforce tens of billions of dollars every year. This is really cool stuff, no matter what your education background, a great career to be part of. When summary as bang had mentioned Aziz, well, there is a great deal of exciting challenges ahead we will see a new renaissance in space in the years ahead, and in some cases it's already begun. Billionaires like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Sir Richard Richard Branson are in the game, stimulating new ideas in business models, other private investors and start up companies. Space companies are now coming in from all angles. The exponential advancement of technology and microelectronics now allows the potential for a plethora of small SAT systems to possibly replace older satellites the size of a Greyhound bus. It's getting better by the day and central to this conference, cybersecurity is paramount to our nation's critical infrastructure in space. So once again, thanks very much, and I look forward to the further conversation. >>Steve, thank you very much. Space is cool. It's relevant. But it's important, as you pointed out, and you're awesome story about how it impacts our life every day. So I really appreciate that great story. I'm glad you took the time Thio share that you forgot the part about the drone coming over in the crime scene and, you know, mapping it out for you. But that would add that to the story later. Great stuff. My first question is let's get into the conversations because I think this is super important. President Armstrong like you to talk about some of the points that was teased out by Bang and Steve. One in particular is the comment around how military research was important in developing all these capabilities, which is impacting all of our lives. Through that story. It was the military research that has enabled a generation and generation of value for consumers. This is kind of this workforce conversation. There are opportunities now with with research and grants, and this is, ah, funding of innovation that it's highly accelerate. It's happening very quickly. Can you comment on how research and the partnerships to get that funding into the universities is critical? >>Yeah, I really appreciate that And appreciate the comments of my colleagues on it really boils down to me to partnerships, public private partnerships. You mentioned Northrop Grumman, but we have partnerships with Lockie Martin, Boeing, Raytheon Space six JPL, also member of organization called Business Higher Education Forum, which brings together university presidents and CEOs of companies. There's been focused on cybersecurity and data science, and I hope that we can spill into cybersecurity in space but those partnerships in the past have really brought a lot forward at Cal Poly Aziz mentioned we've been involved with Cube set. Uh, we've have some secure work and we want to plan to do more of that in the future. Uh, those partnerships are essential not only for getting the r and d done, but also the students, the faculty, whether masters or undergraduate, can be involved with that work. Uh, they get that real life experience, whether it's on campus or virtually now during Covic or at the location with the partner, whether it may be governmental or our industry. Uh, and then they're even better equipped, uh, to hit the ground running. And of course, we'd love to see even more of our students graduate with clearance so that they could do some of that a secure work as well. So these partnerships are absolutely critical, and it's also in the context of trying to bring the best and the brightest and all demographics of California and the US into this field, uh, to really be successful. So these partnerships are essential, and our goal is to grow them just like I know other colleagues and C. S u and the U C are planning to dio, >>you know, just as my age I've seen I grew up in the eighties, in college and during that systems generation and that the generation before me, they really kind of pioneered the space that spawned the computer revolution. I mean, you look at these key inflection points in our lives. They were really funded through these kinds of real deep research. Bond talk about that because, you know, we're living in an age of cloud. And Bezos was mentioned. Elon Musk. Sir Richard Branson. You got new ideas coming in from the outside. You have an accelerated clock now on terms of the innovation cycles, and so you got to react differently. You guys have programs to go outside >>of >>the Defense Department. How important is this? Because the workforce that air in schools and our folks re skilling are out there and you've been on both sides of the table. So share your thoughts. >>No, thanks, John. Thanks for the opportunity responded. And that's what you hit on the notes back in the eighties, R and D in space especially, was dominated by my government funding. Uh, contracts and so on. But things have changed. As Steve pointed out, A lot of these commercial entities funded by billionaires are coming out of the woodwork funding R and D. So they're taking the lead. So what we can do within the deal, the in government is truly take advantage of the work they've done on. Uh, since they're they're, you know, paving the way to new new approaches and new way of doing things. And I think we can We could certainly learn from that. And leverage off of that saves us money from an R and D standpoint while benefiting from from the product that they deliver, you know, within the O D Talking about workforce development Way have prioritized we have policies now to attract and retain talent. We need I I had the folks do some research and and looks like from a cybersecurity workforce standpoint. A recent study done, I think, last year in 2019 found that the cybersecurity workforce gap in the U. S. Is nearing half a million people, even though it is a growing industry. So the pipeline needs to be strengthened off getting people through, you know, starting young and through college, like assess a professor Armstrong indicated, because we're gonna need them to be in place. Uh, you know, in a period of about maybe a decade or so, Uh, on top of that, of course, is the continuing issue we have with the gap with with stamps students, we can't afford not to have expertise in place to support all the things we're doing within the with the not only deal with the but the commercial side as well. Thank you. >>How's the gap? Get? Get filled. I mean, this is the this is again. You got cybersecurity. I mean, with space. It's a whole another kind of surface area, if you will, in early surface area. But it is. It is an I o t. Device if you think about it. But it does have the same challenges. That's kind of current and and progressive with cybersecurity. Where's the gap Get filled, Steve Or President Armstrong? I mean, how do you solve the problem and address this gap in the workforce? What is some solutions and what approaches do we need to put in place? >>Steve, go ahead. I'll follow up. >>Okay. Thanks. I'll let you correct. May, uh, it's a really good question, and it's the way I would. The way I would approach it is to focus on it holistically and to acknowledge it up front. And it comes with our teaching, etcetera across the board and from from an industry perspective, I mean, we see it. We've gotta have secure systems with everything we do and promoting this and getting students at early ages and mentoring them and throwing internships at them. Eyes is so paramount to the whole the whole cycle, and and that's kind of and it really takes focused attention. And we continue to use the word focus from an NSS, a perspective. We know the challenges that are out there. There are such talented people in the workforce on the government side, but not nearly enough of them. And likewise on industry side. We could use Maura's well, but when you get down to it, you know we can connect dots. You know that the the aspect That's a Professor Armstrong talked about earlier toe where you continue to work partnerships as much as you possibly can. We hope to be a part of that. That network at that ecosystem the will of taking common objectives and working together to kind of make these things happen and to bring the power not just of one or two companies, but our our entire membership to help out >>President >>Trump. Yeah, I would. I would also add it again. It's back to partnerships that I talked about earlier. One of our partners is high schools and schools fortune Margaret Fortune, who worked in a couple of, uh, administrations in California across party lines and education. Their fifth graders all visit Cal Poly and visit our learned by doing lab and you, you've got to get students interested in stem at a early age. We also need the partnerships, the scholarships, the financial aid so the students can graduate with minimal to no debt to really hit the ground running. And that's exacerbated and really stress. Now, with this covert induced recession, California supports higher education at a higher rate than most states in the nation. But that is that has dropped this year or reasons. We all understand, uh, due to Kobe, and so our partnerships, our creativity on making sure that we help those that need the most help financially uh, that's really key, because the gaps air huge eyes. My colleagues indicated, you know, half of half a million jobs and you need to look at the the students that are in the pipeline. We've got to enhance that. Uh, it's the in the placement rates are amazing. Once the students get to a place like Cal Poly or some of our other amazing CSU and UC campuses, uh, placement rates are like 94%. >>Many of our >>engineers, they have jobs lined up a year before they graduate. So it's just gonna take key partnerships working together. Uh, and that continued partnership with government, local, of course, our state of CSU on partners like we have here today, both Stephen Bang So partnerships the thing >>e could add, you know, the collaboration with universities one that we, uh, put a lot of emphasis, and it may not be well known fact, but as an example of national security agencies, uh, National Centers of Academic Excellence in Cyber, the Fast works with over 270 colleges and universities across the United States to educate its 45 future cyber first responders as an example, so that Zatz vibrant and healthy and something that we ought Teoh Teik, banjo >>off. Well, I got the brain trust here on this topic. I want to get your thoughts on this one point. I'd like to define what is a public private partnership because the theme that's coming out of the symposium is the script has been flipped. It's a modern error. Things air accelerated get you got security. So you get all these things kind of happen is a modern approach and you're seeing a digital transformation play out all over the world in business. Andi in the public sector. So >>what is what >>is a modern public private partnership? What does it look like today? Because people are learning differently, Covert has pointed out, which was that we're seeing right now. How people the progressions of knowledge and learning truth. It's all changing. How do you guys view the modern version of public private partnership and some some examples and improve points? Can you can you guys share that? We'll start with the Professor Armstrong. >>Yeah. A zai indicated earlier. We've had on guy could give other examples, but Northup Grumman, uh, they helped us with cyber lab. Many years ago. That is maintained, uh, directly the software, the connection outside its its own unit so that students can learn the hack, they can learn to penetrate defenses, and I know that that has already had some considerations of space. But that's a benefit to both parties. So a good public private partnership has benefits to both entities. Uh, in the common factor for universities with a lot of these partnerships is the is the talent, the talent that is, that is needed, what we've been working on for years of the, you know, that undergraduate or master's or PhD programs. But now it's also spilling into Skilling and re Skilling. As you know, Jobs. Uh, you know, folks were in jobs today that didn't exist two years, three years, five years ago. But it also spills into other aspects that can expand even mawr. We're very fortunate. We have land, there's opportunities. We have one tech part project. We're expanding our tech park. I think we'll see opportunities for that, and it'll it'll be adjusted thio, due to the virtual world that we're all learning more and more about it, which we were in before Cove it. But I also think that that person to person is going to be important. Um, I wanna make sure that I'm driving across the bridge. Or or that that satellites being launched by the engineer that's had at least some in person training, uh, to do that and that experience, especially as a first time freshman coming on a campus, getting that experience expanding and as adult. And we're gonna need those public private partnerships in order to continue to fund those at a level that is at the excellence we need for these stem and engineering fields. >>It's interesting People in technology can work together in these partnerships in a new way. Bank Steve Reaction Thio the modern version of what a public, successful private partnership looks like. >>If I could jump in John, I think, you know, historically, Dodi's has have had, ah, high bar thio, uh, to overcome, if you will, in terms of getting rapid pulling in your company. This is the fault, if you will and not rely heavily in are the usual suspects of vendors and like and I think the deal is done a good job over the last couple of years off trying to reduce the burden on working with us. You know, the Air Force. I think they're pioneering this idea around pitch days where companies come in, do a two hour pitch and immediately notified of a wooden award without having to wait a long time. Thio get feedback on on the quality of the product and so on. So I think we're trying to do our best. Thio strengthen that partnership with companies outside the main group of people that we typically use. >>Steve, any reaction? Comment to add? >>Yeah, I would add a couple of these air. Very excellent thoughts. Uh, it zits about taking a little gamble by coming out of your comfort zone. You know, the world that Bond and Bond lives in and I used to live in in the past has been quite structured. It's really about we know what the threat is. We need to go fix it, will design it says we go make it happen, we'll fly it. Um, life is so much more complicated than that. And so it's it's really to me. I mean, you take you take an example of the pitch days of bond talks about I think I think taking a gamble by attempting to just do a lot of pilot programs, uh, work the trust factor between government folks and the industry folks in academia. Because we are all in this together in a lot of ways, for example. I mean, we just sent the paper to the White House of their requests about, you know, what would we do from a workforce development perspective? And we hope Thio embellish on this over time once the the initiative matures. But we have a piece of it, for example, is the thing we call clear for success getting back Thio Uh, President Armstrong's comments at the collegiate level. You know, high, high, high quality folks are in high demand. So why don't we put together a program they grabbed kids in their their underclass years identifies folks that are interested in doing something like this. Get them scholarships. Um, um, I have a job waiting for them that their contract ID for before they graduate, and when they graduate, they walk with S C I clearance. We believe that could be done so, and that's an example of ways in which the public private partnerships can happen to where you now have a talented kid ready to go on Day one. We think those kind of things can happen. It just gets back down to being focused on specific initiatives, give them giving them a chance and run as many pilot programs as you can like these days. >>That's a great point, E. President. >>I just want to jump in and echo both the bank and Steve's comments. But Steve, that you know your point of, you know, our graduates. We consider them ready Day one. Well, they need to be ready Day one and ready to go secure. We totally support that and and love to follow up offline with you on that. That's that's exciting, uh, and needed very much needed mawr of it. Some of it's happening, but way certainly have been thinking a lot about that and making some plans, >>and that's a great example of good Segway. My next question. This kind of reimagining sees work flows, eyes kind of breaking down the old the old way and bringing in kind of a new way accelerated all kind of new things. There are creative ways to address this workforce issue, and this is the next topic. How can we employ new creative solutions? Because, let's face it, you know, it's not the days of get your engineering degree and and go interview for a job and then get slotted in and get the intern. You know the programs you get you particularly through the system. This is this is multiple disciplines. Cybersecurity points at that. You could be smart and math and have, ah, degree in anthropology and even the best cyber talents on the planet. So this is a new new world. What are some creative approaches that >>you know, we're >>in the workforce >>is quite good, John. One of the things I think that za challenge to us is you know, we got somehow we got me working for with the government, sexy, right? The part of the challenge we have is attracting the right right level of skill sets and personnel. But, you know, we're competing oftentimes with the commercial side, the gaming industry as examples of a big deal. And those are the same talents. We need to support a lot of programs we have in the U. D. So somehow we have to do a better job to Steve's point off, making the work within the U. D within the government something that they would be interested early on. So I tracked him early. I kind of talked about Cal Poly's, uh, challenge program that they were gonna have in June inviting high school kid. We're excited about the whole idea of space and cyber security, and so on those air something. So I think we have to do it. Continue to do what were the course the next several years. >>Awesome. Any other creative approaches that you guys see working or might be on idea, or just a kind of stoked the ideation out their internship. So obviously internships are known, but like there's gotta be new ways. >>I think you can take what Steve was talking about earlier getting students in high school, uh, and aligning them sometimes. Uh, that intern first internship, not just between the freshman sophomore year, but before they inter cal poly per se. And they're they're involved s So I think that's, uh, absolutely key. Getting them involved many other ways. Um, we have an example of of up Skilling a redeveloped work redevelopment here in the Central Coast. PG and e Diablo nuclear plant as going to decommission in around 2020 24. And so we have a ongoing partnership toe work on reposition those employees for for the future. So that's, you know, engineering and beyond. Uh, but think about that just in the manner that you were talking about. So the up skilling and re Skilling uh, on I think that's where you know, we were talking about that Purdue University. Other California universities have been dealing with online programs before cove it and now with co vid uh, so many more faculty or were pushed into that area. There's going to be much more going and talk about workforce development and up Skilling and Re Skilling The amount of training and education of our faculty across the country, uh, in in virtual, uh, and delivery has been huge. So there's always a silver linings in the cloud. >>I want to get your guys thoughts on one final question as we in the in the segment. And we've seen on the commercial side with cloud computing on these highly accelerated environments where you know, SAS business model subscription. That's on the business side. But >>one of The >>things that's clear in this trend is technology, and people work together and technology augments the people components. So I'd love to get your thoughts as we look at the world now we're living in co vid um, Cal Poly. You guys have remote learning Right now. It's a infancy. It's a whole new disruption, if you will, but also an opportunity to enable new ways to collaborate, Right? So if you look at people and technology, can you guys share your view and vision on how communities can be developed? How these digital technologies and people can work together faster to get to the truth or make a discovery higher to build the workforce? These air opportunities? How do you guys view this new digital transformation? >>Well, I think there's there's a huge opportunities and just what we're doing with this symposium. We're filming this on one day, and it's going to stream live, and then the three of us, the four of us, can participate and chat with participants while it's going on. That's amazing. And I appreciate you, John, you bringing that to this this symposium, I think there's more and more that we can do from a Cal poly perspective with our pedagogy. So you know, linked to learn by doing in person will always be important to us. But we see virtual. We see partnerships like this can expand and enhance our ability and minimize the in person time, decrease the time to degree enhanced graduation rate, eliminate opportunity gaps or students that don't have the same advantages. S so I think the technological aspect of this is tremendous. Then on the up Skilling and Re Skilling, where employees air all over, they can be reached virtually then maybe they come to a location or really advanced technology allows them to get hands on virtually, or they come to that location and get it in a hybrid format. Eso I'm I'm very excited about the future and what we can do, and it's gonna be different with every university with every partnership. It's one. Size does not fit all. >>It's so many possibilities. Bond. I could almost imagine a social network that has a verified, you know, secure clearance. I can jump in, have a little cloak of secrecy and collaborate with the d o. D. Possibly in the future. But >>these are the >>kind of kind of crazy ideas that are needed. Are your thoughts on this whole digital transformation cross policy? >>I think technology is gonna be revolutionary here, John. You know, we're focusing lately on what we call digital engineering to quicken the pace off, delivering capability to warfighter. As an example, I think a I machine language all that's gonna have a major play and how we operate in the future. We're embracing five G technologies writing ability Thio zero latency or I o t More automation off the supply chain. That sort of thing, I think, uh, the future ahead of us is is very encouraging. Thing is gonna do a lot for for national defense on certainly the security of the country. >>Steve, your final thoughts. Space systems are systems, and they're connected to other systems that are connected to people. Your thoughts on this digital transformation opportunity >>Such a great question in such a fun, great challenge ahead of us. Um echoing are my colleague's sentiments. I would add to it. You know, a lot of this has I think we should do some focusing on campaigning so that people can feel comfortable to include the Congress to do things a little bit differently. Um, you know, we're not attuned to doing things fast. Uh, but the dramatic You know, the way technology is just going like crazy right now. I think it ties back Thio hoping Thio, convince some of our senior leaders on what I call both sides of the Potomac River that it's worth taking these gamble. We do need to take some of these things very way. And I'm very confident, confident and excited and comfortable. They're just gonna be a great time ahead and all for the better. >>You know, e talk about D. C. Because I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not a political person, but I always say less lawyers, more techies in Congress and Senate. So I was getting job when I say that. Sorry. Presidential. Go ahead. >>Yeah, I know. Just one other point. Uh, and and Steve's alluded to this in bonded as well. I mean, we've got to be less risk averse in these partnerships. That doesn't mean reckless, but we have to be less risk averse. And I would also I have a zoo. You talk about technology. I have to reflect on something that happened in, uh, you both talked a bit about Bill Britton and his impact on Cal Poly and what we're doing. But we were faced a few years ago of replacing a traditional data a data warehouse, data storage data center, and we partner with a W S. And thank goodness we had that in progress on it enhanced our bandwidth on our campus before Cove. It hit on with this partnership with the digital transformation hub. So there is a great example where, uh, we we had that going. That's not something we could have started. Oh, covitz hit. Let's flip that switch. And so we have to be proactive on. We also have thio not be risk averse and do some things differently. Eyes that that is really salvage the experience for for students. Right now, as things are flowing, well, we only have about 12% of our courses in person. Uh, those essential courses, uh, and just grateful for those partnerships that have talked about today. >>Yeah, and it's a shining example of how being agile, continuous operations, these air themes that expand into space and the next workforce needs to be built. Gentlemen, thank you. very much for sharing your insights. I know. Bang, You're gonna go into the defense side of space and your other sessions. Thank you, gentlemen, for your time for great session. Appreciate it. >>Thank you. Thank you. >>Thank you. >>Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all. >>I'm John Furry with the Cube here in Palo Alto, California Covering and hosting with Cal Poly The Space and Cybersecurity Symposium 2020. Thanks for watching.

>> live from New York. It's the Q covering AWS Global Summit 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web service, is >> welcome back here to New York City. You're watching the Cube, the worldwide leader in Enterprise Tech cover jumps to minimum. My co host for today is Cory Quinn and happy to welcome to the program. A first time guest on the program, says Heart O. B. Who is a senior leader of global business development with Healthcare Life. Scientists know this group and AWS thanks so much for joining us. All right, so you know, we love digging into some of the verticals here in New York City. Of course, it's been a lot of time on the financial service is peas we actually had, Ah, another one of our teams out of the eight of us. Imagine show going on yesterday in Seattle with a lot of the education pieces. So healthcare, life sciences in genomics, little bit of tech involved in those groups, a lot of change going on in that world. So give us a thumbnail if you would as toe what what's happening in your >> world so well just from a scope one of you Health care includes life set paid on provider Life sciences is far more by attacking its most medical device and then genomics and what we're seeing in those spaces. Let's start with health care. It's such a broad thing, will just sort of back to back and forth in health care itself. What we're sort of seeing their customs ask us to focus on and to help them do falls into three categories. First, is a lot of customers ask us to help them personalized the consumer health journey. You and I, all of us, are so accustomed to that frictionless experiences we have elsewhere and in health care. There's a lot more friction. And so we're getting a lot of enquiries and request for us to help them transform that experience. Make it frictionless. So an example That would be if you're familiar with Doc. Doc started here in New York. Actually, when you want a book, an appointment, Doc, Doc, you can normally, if you go online, I have to put information for insurance. You type it all. Then it's full of friction. Have to put all the fields in. They use one of our A I service's image recognition, and you simply hold up your card to the camera and it able to pull your in transporation, determine eligibility and look the right appointment for you. So that's an example of removing friction for the consumer of the health consume over the patient as they're trying to go to that health care and excessive category one frictionless experiences using AWS to support it with a i service is category, too. We're getting a lot of interest for us to help health systems predict patient health events. So anything of value base care the way you actually are able to change the cost. Quality Curve is predicting events, not just dealing with math and so using a i Am L service is on top of data to predict and forecast events is a big part of one example would be with sooner where they moved, they're healthy and 10 platform, which is a launch to a patient record platform onto AWS. About 223,000,000 individuals that are on that platform Men we did a study with him where way consume about 210,000 individual patient data and created a machine learning model this is published where you can predict congestive heart failure 15 months in advance of it actually occurring. So when you look at that, that prediction are forecasting that sort of one of the powers of this princess. What category number two is predicting health events, and then the last one I'd be remiss in leaving out is that you probably have heard a lot of discussion on physician and a clinician. Burnout to the frustrations of the nurses or doctors and Muslims have the heart of that is not having the right information the right time to take care of the right patient. Data liquidity and in Trop ability is a huge challenge, and a lot of our customers are asking us to help solve those problems with them. You know it hims. This year we announced, together with change Healthcare Change Healthcare said they want to provide free and troubling to the country on AWS, with the platform supporting that. So those are sort of three categories. Personalize the consumer health journey. Predicting patient health events and promoting intra ability is sort of the signals that we're seeing in areas that were actively supporting our customers and sort of elevating the human condition. >> It's very easy to look at the regulation around things like health care and say, Oh, that gets in the way and its onerous and we're not gonna deal with it or it should be faster. I don't think anyone actively wants that. We like the fact that our hospitals were safe, that health care is regulated and in some of the ways that it is at least. But I saw an artifact of that means that more than many other areas of what AWS does is your subject to regulatory speed of Sloane. A speed of feature announcement, as opposed to being able to do it as fast technology allows relatively easy example of this was a few years back. In order to run, get eight of us to sign a B A. For hip, a certification, you have to run dedicated tendency instances and will not changed about a year and 1/2 2 years ago or even longer. Depending it's it all starts to run together after a time, but once people learn something, they don't tend to go back and validate whether it's still true. How do you just find that communicating to your customers about things that were not possible yesterday now are, >> yeah, when you look at hip eligibility. So as you know, a devious is about over 100 him eligible service's, which means that these are so this is that so compliance that you start their compliance, Remember, is an outcome, not a future. So compliance is a combination of people process platform, and we bring the platform that's hip eligible, and our customers bring the people in process, if you will, to use that platform, which then becomes complying with regulatory requirements. And so you're absolutely right. There's a diffusion of sort of understanding of eligibility, a platform, and then they worked with customers have to do in order as a shared responsibility to do it. That diffusion is sometimes slower. In fact, there's sometimes misinformation. So we always see it work with our customers and that shared, responsive model so that they can meet their requirements as they come to the cloud. And we can bring platforms that are eligible for hip. They can actually carry out the work clothes they need to. So it's it's that money, you know, the way I think of it is. This when you think of compliance, is that if if I were to build for you a deadbolt for your door and I can tell you that this complies boasted of things, but you put the key under the mat way might not be complying with security and regular requirements for our house. So it's a share responsible. I'll make the platform be eligible and compliant, and so that collective does daytime and dusting. People are saying that there is a flat from this eligible, and then they have to also, in their response to work to the people in process potion to make the totality of it comply with the requirements for regulatory for healthcare regulatory requirements. >> Some of the interesting conversations I've had in the last few years in health care in the industry is collaborations that are going on, you know, how do we share data while still maintaining all of the regulations that are involved? Where does that leave us get involved? There >> should. That's a fact. There is a data sharing part of that did a liquidity story that we talked about earlier in terms of instability. I'll give an example of where AWS actually actively working in that space. You may be familiar with a service we launched last November at Reinvent called Amazon Campion Medical and Campion Medical. What it does is it looks at a medical note and can extract key information. So if you think back to in high school, when you used to read a book in highlighting yellow key concepts that you wanted to remember for an exam Amazon Carmen Medical Same thing exactly, can lift key elements and goes from a text blob, too discrete data that has relationship ontology and that allows data sharing where you where you need to. But then there's one of the piece, so that's when you're allowed to disclose there's one of me. Sometimes you and I want to work on something, but we want to actually read act the patient information that allows data sharing as well. So Amazon coming medical also allows you to read, act. Think of when a new challenge shows that federally protected doctor that's blacked out Amazon com for American also remove patient identifying information. So if you and I want to collaborate on research project, you have a set of data that you wanna anonima de identify. I have data information of I D identified. To put it together, I can use Amazon com Medical Read Act All the patient information Make it d identified. You can do the same. And now we can combine the three of us that information to build models, to look a research and to do data sharing. So whether you have full authority to to share patient information and use the ontological portion of it, or whether you want to do the identifying matter, Amazon competent medical helps you do that. >> What's impressive and incredible is that whether we like it or not, there's something a little special about health care where I can decide I'm not going to be on the Internet. Social media things all stop tweeting. Most people would thank me for that, or I can opt out of ride sharing and only take taxis, for example. But we're all sooner or later going to be customers of the health care industry, and as a result, this is some of that effects, all of us, whether we want to acknowledge that or not. I mean, where some of us are still young enough to believe that we have this immortality streak going on. So far, so good. But it becomes clear that this is the sort of thing where the ultimate customer is all of us. As you take a look at that, does that inform how AWS is approaching this entire sector? >> Absolutely. In fact, I'd like to think that a W brought a physician toe lead sector because they understood that in addition to our customer obsession that we see through the customer to the individual and that we want to elevate the human condition we wanted obsess over our customers success so that we can affect positive action on the lives of individuals everywhere. To me, that is a turn. The reason I joined it of U. S s. So that's it. Certainly practice of healthcare Life's I said on genomic Seti ws has been around for about six years. A doubIe s double that. And so actually it's a mature practice and our understanding of our customers definitely includes that core flame that it's about people and each of us come with a special story. In fact, you know the people that work in the U. S. Healthcare life, science team people that have been to the bedside there, people that have been adventure that I worked in the farm industry, healthcare, population, health. They all are there because of that thing you just said. Certainly I'm there because that on the entire practice of self life sciences is keenly aware of looking through the customers to the >> individual pieces. All right, how much? You know, mix, you know, definitely an area where compute storage are critically important than we've seen. Dramatic change. You know, in the last 5 to 10 years, anything specific you could share on that >> Genomics genomex is an area where you need incredible computer storage on. In our case, for example, alumina, which is one of our customers, runs about 85% of all gene sequencing on the planet is in aws customer stores. All that data on AWS. So when you look at genomex, real power of genomics is the fact that enables precision diagnostics. And so when you look at one of our customers, Grail Grail, that uses genomic fragments in the blood that may be coming from cancer and actually sequences that fragment and then on AWS will use the power of the computer to do machine learning on that Gino Mexicans from to determine if you might have one of those 1 10 to 12 cancers that they're currently screening for. And so when you talk to a position health, it really can't be done without position diagnostics, which depends on genomex, which really is an example of that. It runs on AWS because we bring compute and storage essentially infinite power. To do that you want, For example, you know the first whole genome sequence took 14 years. And how many billions of dollars Children's Hospital Philadelphia now does 1000 whole genome sequences in two hours and 20 minutes on AWS, they spike up 20,000 see few cores, do that desi and then moved back down. Genomics. The field that literally can't be. My humble opinion can't be done outside the cloud. It just the mechanics of needed. The storage and compute power is one that is born in the cloud on AWS has those examples that I shared with you. >> It's absolutely fantastic and emerging space, and it's it's interesting to watch that despite the fact there is a regulatory burden that everything was gonna dispute that and the gravity of what it does. I'm not left with sense that feature enhancement and development and velocity of releases is slower somehow in health care than it is across the entire rest of the stack. Is that an accurate assessment, or is there a bit of a drag effect on that? >> Do you mean in the health care customers are on AWS speaking >> on AWS aside, citizen customers are going to be customers. Love them. We >> do aws. You know, we obviously innovation is a rowdy and we release gosh everything. About 2011 we released 80 front service than features and jumped 1015 where it was like 702 jumped 2018. Where was 1957 features? That's like a 25 fold. Our pace of innovation is not going to slow down. It's going to continue. It's in our blood in our d. N. A. We in fact, hire people that are just not satisfied. The status quo on want to innovate and change things. Just, you know, innovation is the beginning of the end of the story, so, no, I don't have to spend any slowdown. In fact, when you add machine learning models on machine learning service that we're putting in? I only see it. An even faster hockey stick of the service is that we're gonna bring out. And I want you to come to reinvent where we're going to announce the mall and you you will be there and see that. All >> right, well, on that note thank you so much for giving us the update on healthcare Life Sciences in genomics. Absolutely. Want to see the continued growth and innovation in that? >> My pleasure. Thank you for having a show. All >> right. For Cory, Queen of Stupid Men. The Cube's coverage never stops either. We, of course, will be at eight of us reinvent this fall as well as many other shows. So, as always, thanks for watching the cue.

>> Live from New York, it's theCUBE. Covering theCUBE New York City 2018. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi, welcome back. I'm your host Sonia Tagare with my cohost Dave Vellante, and we're here at theCUBE NYC covering everything big data, AI, and the cloud. And this week is also New York Fashion Week, and with us today we have a guest who intersects both of those technologies, so Billie Whitehouse, CEO of Wearable X, thank you so much for being on. >> It's a pleasure, thank you for having me. >> Great to see you. >> Thank you. >> So your company Wearable X, which intersects fashion and technology, tell us more about that. >> So Wearable X started five years ago. And we started by building clothes that had integrated haptic feedback, which is just vibrational feedback on the body. And we really believe that we can empower clothing with technology to do far more than it ever has for you before, and to really give you control back of your life. >> That's amazing. So can you tell us more about the haptic, how it works and what the technology is about? >> Absolutely. So the haptics are integrated with accelerometers and they're paired through conductive pathways around the body, and specifically this is built for yoga in a line called NadiX. And Nadi is spelled N-A-D-I. I know that I have a funny accent so sometimes it helps to spell things out. They connect and understand your body orientation and then from understanding your body orientation we pair that back with your smartphone and then the app guides you with audio, how to move into each yoga pose, step by step. And at the end we ask you to address whether you made it into the pose or not by reading the accelerometer values, and then we give you vibrational feedback where to focus. >> And the accelerometer is what exactly? It's just a tiny device... Does it protrude or is it just...? >> I mean it's as invisibly integrated as we can get it so that we can make it washable and tumble-dryable. >> So I know I rented a car recently, big SUV with the family and when I started backing up or when I get close to another car, it started vibrating. So is it that kind of sensation? It was sort of a weird warning but then after a while I got used to it. It was kind of training me. Is that-- >> Precisely. >> Sort of the same thing? And it's just the pants or the leggings, or is it the top as well? >> So it's built in through the ankles, behind the knees and in the hip of the yoga pants, and then we will release upper body work as well. >> Alright, so let's double click on this. So if I'm in a crescent pose and I'm leaning too far forward, will it sort of correct me or hit me in the calf and say, "Put your heel down," or how would that work? >> Exactly. So the audio instructions will give you exactly the kind of instructions you would get if you were in a class. And then similarly to what you would get if you had a personal instructor, the vibrations will show you where to isolate and where to ground down, or where to lift up, or where to rotate, and then at the end of the pose, the accelerometer values are read and we understand whether you made it into the pose or whether you didn't quite get there, and whether you're overextended or not. And then we ask you to either go back and work on the pose again or move forward and move on to the next pose. >> That is amazing. I usually have to ask my daughters or my wife, "Is this right?" And then they'll just shake their heads. Now what do you do with the data? Do you collect the data and can I review and improve, feed it back? How does that all work? >> So the base level membership, which is free, is you don't see your progress tracking as yet. But we're about to release our membership, where you pay $10 a month, and with that you get progress tracking as a customer. Us on the back end, we can see how often people make it into particular poses. We can also see which ones they don't make it into very well, but we don't necessarily share that. >> And so presumably it tracks other things besides, like frequency, duration of the yoga? >> Exactly. Minutes of yoga, precisely right. >> Different body parts, or not necessarily? >> So the accelerometers are just giving us an individual value, and then we determine what pose you're in, so I don't know what you mean by different body parts? >> In other words, which parts of my body I'm working out or maybe need to work on? >> Oh precisely. Yeah if you're overextending a particular knee or an ankle, we can eventually tell you that very detailed. >> And how long have you been doing this? >> It's five years. >> Okay. And so what have you learned so far from all this data that you've collected? >> Well I mean, I'm going to start from a human learning first, and then I'll give you the data learnings. The human learning for me is equally as interesting. The language on the body and how people respond to vibration was learning number one. And we even did tests many years ago with a particular product, an upper body product, with kids, so aged between eight and 13, and I played a game of memory with them to see if they could learn and understand different vibrational sequences and what they meant. And it was astounding. They would get it every single time without fail. They would understand what the vibrations meant and they would remember it. For us, we are then trying to replicate that for yoga. And that has been a really interesting learning, to see how people need and understand and want to have audio cues with their vibrational feedback. From a data perspective, the biggest learning for us is that people are actually spending between 13 to 18 minutes inside the app. So they don't necessarily want an hour and a half class, which is what we originally thought. They want short, quick, easy-to-digest kind of flows. And that for me was very much a learning. They're also using it at really interesting times of the day. So it's before seven AM, in the middle of the day between 11 and three, and then after nine PM. And that just so happens to be when studios are shut. So it makes sense that they want to use something that's quick and easy for them, whether it's early morning when they have a big, full day, or late night 'cause they need to relax. >> Sounds like such a great social impact. Can you tell us more about why you decided to make this? >> Yeah, for me there was a personal problem. I was paying an extraordinary amount to go to classes, I was often in a class with another 50 people and not really getting any of the attention that I guess I thought I deserved, so I was frustrated. I was frustrated that I was paying so much money to go into class and not getting the attention, had been working with haptic feedback for quite some time at that point, realized that there was this language on the body that was being really underutilized, and then had this opportunity to start looking at how we could do it for yoga. Don't get me wrong, I had several engineers tell me this wasn't possible about three and a half years ago, and look at us now, we're shipping product and we're in retail and it's all working, but it took some time. >> So you're not an engineer, I take it? >> I am not an engineer. >> You certainly don't dress like an engineer, but you never know. What's your background? >> My background is in design. And I truly think that design, for us, has always come first. And I hope that it continues to be that way. I believe that designers have an ability to solve problems in, dare I say, in a horizontal way. We can understand pockets of things that are going on, whether it's the problem, whether it's ways to solve the solutions, and we can combine the two. It's not just about individual problem solving on a minute level; it's very much a macro view. And I hope that more and more designers go into this space because I truly believe that they have an ability to solve really interesting problems by asking empathetic questions. >> And how does the tech work? I mean, what do you need besides the clothing and the accelerometers to make this work? >> So we have a little device called the pulse. And the pulse has our Bluetooth module and our battery and our PCB, and that clips just behind the left knee. Now that's also the one spot on the body that during yoga doesn't get in the way, and we have tested that on every body shape you can imagine across five different continents, because we wanted to make sure that the algorithms that we built to understand the poses were going to be fair for everybody. So in doing that, that little pulse, you un-clip when you want to wash and dry. >> And is that connected to the app as well? >> Exactly, that's connected via Bluetooth to your app. >> That's great. So you have all your data in your hand and you know exactly what kind of yoga poses you're doing, where you need to strengthen up. >> Exactly. >> That's great. >> And is it a full program? In other words, are there different yoga programs I can do, or am I on my own for that? How does that work? >> So with the base level membership, you can choose different yoga instructors around New York that you'd like to follow, and then you can get progress tracking, you can get recommendations, and they are timed between that 10 to 20 minutes. If you want to pay the slightly more premium membership, you can actually build your own playlists, and that's something that our customers have said they're really interested in. It means that you can build a sequence of poses that is really defined by you, that is good for your body. So that means instead of going to a class where you end up getting a terrible teacher, or music that you don't like, you can actually build your own class and then share that with your friends as well. >> Is it a Spotify-like model, where the teachers get compensation at the back end, or how does that all work? >> Exactly. Yes, precisely. >> And what do you charge for this? >> So the pants are $250, and then the base level membership is $10 a month, and then the slightly more premium is $30 a month. >> If you think about how much you would spend for a yoga class, that actually seems like a pretty good deal. >> And trust me, when you start calculating, when you go to yoga at least once a week, and it's $20 a week and then you're like, "Oh, and I went every week this year," you realize that it racks up very quickly. >> Well plus the convenience of doing it... I love having... To be able to do it at six a.m. without having to go to a class, especially where I live in Boston, when it's cold in the winter, you don't even want to go out. (all laughing) >> So what do you think the future of the wearable industry is? >> This is a space that I get really excited about. I believe in a version of the future, which has been titled "enchanted objects." And the reason I sort of put it in inverted commas is I think that often has sometimes a magical element to it that people think is a little too far forward. But for me, I really believe that this is possible. So not only do I believe that we will have our own body area network, which I like to call an app store for the body, but I believe every object will have this. And there was a beautiful Wired article last month that actually described why the Japanese culture are adopting robotics and automation in a way that western culture often isn't. And that is because the Shinto religion is the predominant religion in Japan, and they believe that every object has a soul. And if in believing that, you're designing for that object to have a soul and a personality and an ecosystem, and dare we call it, a body area network for each object, then that area network can interface with yours or mine or whoever's, and you can create this really interesting communication that is enchanted and delightful, and not about domination. It's not about screens taking over the world and being in charge of you, and us being dominated by them, as often we see in culture now. It's about having this really beautiful interface between technology and objects. And I really believe that's going to be the version of the future. >> And looking good while you do it. >> Precisely. >> You've got visions to take this beyond yoga, is that right? Other sports, perhaps cycling and swimming and skiing, I can think of so many examples. >> Exactly. Well for us, we're focused on yoga to start with. And certainly areas that I would say are in the gaps. I like to think of our products as being very touch-focused and staying in areas of athleisure or sports that are around touch. So where you would get a natural adjustment from a coach or a teacher, our products can naturally fit into that space. So whether it is squats or whether it is Pilates, they're certainly in our pipeline. But in the immediate future, we're certainly looking at the upper body and in meditation, and how we can remind you to roll your shoulders back and down, and everyone sits up straight. And then longer term, we're looking at how we can move this into physiotherapy, and so as you mentioned, you can enter in that you have a left knee injury, and we'll be able to adjust what you should be working on because of that. >> Is there a possibility of a breathing component, or is that perhaps there today? Such an important part of yoga is breathing. >> 100%. That is very much part of what we're working on. I would say more silently, but very much will launch soon. >> Well it sounds like it's going to have such a positive impact on so many people and that it's going to be in so many different industries. >> I hope so. Yeah that's the plan. >> Well Billie Whitehouse, thank you so much for being on theCUBE, and Dave, thank you. We're here at theCUBE NYC, and stay tuned, don't go anywhere, we'll be back. (inquisitive electronic music)

>> Live from New York, it's theCUBE, covering theCUBE New York City 2018. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello, everyone, welcome back. This is theCUBE live in New York City for theCUBE NYC, #CUBENYC. This is our ninth year covering the big data ecosystem, which has now merged into cloud. All things coming together. It's really about AI, it's about developers, it's about operations, it's about data scientists. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Dave Vellante. Our next guest is Brent Compton, Technical Marketing Director for Storage Business at Red Hat. As you know, we cover Red Hat Summit and great to have the conversation. Open source, DevOps is the theme here. Brent, thanks for joining us, thanks for coming on. >> My pleasure, thank you. >> We've been talking about the role of AI and AI needs data and data needs storage, which is what you do, but if you look at what's going on in the marketplace, kind of an architectural shift. It's harder to find a cloud architect than it is to find diamonds these days. You can't find a good cloud architect. Cloud is driving a lot of the action. Data is a big part of that. What's Red Hat doing in this area and what's emerging for you guys in this data landscape? >> Really, the days of specialists are over. You mentioned it's more difficult to find a cloud architect than find diamonds. What we see is the infrastructure, it's become less about compute as storage and networking. It's the architect that can bring the confluence of those specialties together. One of the things that we see is people bringing their analytics workloads onto the common platforms where they've been running the rest of their enterprise applications. For instance, if they're running a lot of their enterprise applications on AWS, of course, they want to run their analytics workloads in AWS and that's EMRs long since in the history books. Likewise, if they're running a lot of their enterprise applications on OpenStack, it's natural that they want to run a lot of their analytics workloads on the same type of dynamically provisioned infrastructure. Emerging, of course, we just announced on Monday this week with Hortonworks and IBM, if they're running a lot of their enterprise applications on a Kubernetes substrate like OpenShift, they want to run their analytics workloads on that same kind of agile infrastructure. >> Talk about the private cloud impact and hybrid cloud because obviously we just talked to the CEO of Hortonworks. Normally it's about early days, about Hadoop, data legs and then data planes. They had a good vision. They're years into it, but I like what Hortonworks is doing. But he said Kubernetes, on a data show Kubernetes. Kubernetes is a multi-cloud, hybrid cloud concept, containers. This is really enabling a lot of value and you guys have OpenShift which became very successful over the past few years, the growth has been phenomenal. So congratulations, but it's pointing to a bigger trend and that is that the infrastructure software, the platform as a service is becoming the middleware, the glue, if you will, and Kubernetes and containers are facilitating a new architecture for developers and operators. How important is that with you guys, and what's the impact of the customer when they think, okay I'm going to have an agile DevOps environment, workload portability, but do I have to build that out? You mentioned people don't have to necessarily do that anymore. The trend has become on-premise. What's the impact of the customer as they hear Kubernetese and containers and the data conversation? >> You mentioned agile DevOps environment, workload portability so one of the things that customers come to us for is having that same thing, but infrastructure agnostic. They say, I don't want to be locked in. Love AWS, love Azure, but I don't want to be locked into those platforms. I want to have an abstraction layer for my Kubernetese layer that sits on top of those infrastructure platforms. As I bring my workloads, one-by-one, custom DevOps from a lift and shift of legacy apps onto that substrate, I want to have it be independent, private cloud or public cloud and, time permitting, we'll go into more details about what we've seen happening in the private cloud with analytics as well, which is effectively what brought us here today. The pattern that we've discovered with a lot of our large customers who are saying, hey, we're running OpenStack, they're large institutions that for lots of reasons they store a lot of their data on-premises saying, we want to use the utility compute model that OpenStack gives us as well as the shared data context that Ceph gives us. We want to use that same thing for our analytics workload. So effectively some of our large customers taught us this program. >> So they're building infrastructure for analytics essentially. >> That's what it is. >> One of the challenges with that is the data is everywhere. It's all in silos, it's locked in some server somewhere. First of all, am I overstating that problem and how are you seeing customers deal with that? What are some of the challenges that they're having and how are you guys helping? >> Perfect lead in, in fact, one of our large government customers, they recently sent us an unsolicited email after they deployed the first 10 petabytes in a deca petabyte solution. It's OpenStack based as well as Ceph based. Three taglines in their email. The first was releasing the lock on data. The second was releasing the lock on compute. And the third was releasing the lock on innovation. Now, that sounds a bit buzzword-y, but when it comes from a customer to you. >> That came from a customer? Sounds like a marketing department wrote that. >> In the details, as you know, traditional HDFS clusters, traditional Hadoop clusters, sparklers or whatever, HDFS is not shared between clusters. One of our large customers has 50 plus analytics clusters. Their data platforms team employ a maze of scripts to copy data from one cluster to the other. And if you are a scientist or an engineer, you'd say, I'm trying to obtain these types of answers, but I need access to data sets A, B, C, and D, but data sets A and B are only on this cluster. I've got to go contact the data platforms team and have them copy it over and ensure that it's up-to-date and in sync so it's messy. >> It's a nightmare. >> Messy. So that's why the one customer said releasing the lock on data because now it's in a shared. Similar paradigm as AWS with EMR. The data's in a shared context, an S3. You spin up your analytics workloads on AC2. Same paradigm discussion as with OpenStack. Your spinning up your analytics workloads via OpenStack virtualization and their sourcing is shared data context inside of Ceph, S3 compatible Ceph so same architecture. I love his last bit, the one that sounds the most buzzword-y which was releasing lock on innovation. And this individual, English was not this person's first language so love the word. He said, our developers no longer fear experimentation because it's so easy. In minutes they can spin up an analytics cluster with a shared data context, they get the wrong mix of things they shut it down and spin it up again. >> In previous example you used HDFS clusters. There's so many trip wires, right. You can break something. >> It's fragile. >> It's like scripts. You don't want to tinker with that. Developers don't want to get their hand slapped. >> The other thing is also the recognition that innovation comes from data. That's what my takeaway is. The customer saying, okay, now we can innovate because we have access to the data, we can apply intelligence to that data whether it's machine intelligence or analytics, et cetera. >> This the trend in infrastructure. You mentioned the shared context. What other observations and learnings have you guys come to as Red Hat starts to get more customer interactions around analytical infrastructure. Is it an IT problem? You mentioned abstracting the way different infrastructures, and that means multi-cloud's probably setup for you guys in a big way. But what does that mean for a customer? If you had to explain infrastructure analytics, what needs to get done, what does the customer need to do? How do you describe that? >> I love the term that industry uses of multi-tenant workload isolation with shared data context. That's such a concise term to describe what we talk to our customers about. And most of them, that's what they're looking for. They've got their data scientist teams that don't want their workloads mixed in with the long running batch workloads. They say, listen, I'm on deadline here. I've got an hour to get these answers. They're working with Impala. They're working with Presto. They iterate, they don't know exactly the pattern they're looking for. So having to take a long time because their jobs are mixed in with these long MapReduce jobs. They need to be able to spin up infrastructure, workload isolation meaning they have their own space, shared context, they don't want to be placing calls over to the platform team saying, I need data sets C, D, and E. Could you please send them over? I'm on deadline here. That phrase, I think, captures so nicely what customers are really looking to do with their analytics infrastructure. Analytics tools, they'll still do their thing, but the infrastructure underneath analytics delivering this new type of agility is giving that multi-tenant workload isolation with shared data context. >> You know what's funny is we were talking at the kickoff. We were looking back nine years. We've been at this event for nine years now. We made prediction there will be no Red Hat of big data. John, years ago said, unless it's Red Hat. You guys got dragged into this by your customers really is how it came about. >> Customers and partners, of course with your recent guest from Hortonworks, the announcement that Red Hat, Hortonworks, and IBM had on Monday of this week. Dialing up even further taking the agility, okay, OpenStack is great for agility, private cloud, utility based computing and storage with OpenStack and Ceph, great. OpenShift dials up that agility another notch. Of course, we heard from the CEO of Hortonworks how much they love the agility that a Kubernetes based substrate provides their analytics customers. >> That's essentially how you're creating that sort of same-same experience between on-prem and multi-cloud, is that right? >> Yeah, OpenShift is deployed pervasively on AWS, on-premises, on Azure, on GCE. >> It's a multi-cloud world, we see that for sure. Again, the validation was at VMworld. AWS CEO, Andy Jassy announced RDS which is their product on VMware on-premises which they've never done. Amazon's never done any product on-premises. We were speculating it would be a hardware device. We missed that one, but it's a software. But this is the validation, seamless cloud operations on-premise in the cloud really is what people want. They want one standard operating model and they want to abstract away the infrastructure, as you were saying, as the big trend. The question that we have is, okay, go to the next level. From a developer standpoint, what is this modern developer using for tools in the infrastructure? How can they get that agility and spinning up isolated, multi-tenant infrastructure concept all the time? This is the demand we're seeing, that's an evolution. Question for Red Hat is, how does that change your partnership strategy because you mentioned Rob Bearden. They've been hardcore enterprise and you guys are hardcore enterprise. You kind of know the little things that customers want that might not be obvious to people: compliance, certification, a decade of support. How is Red Hat's partnership model changing with this changing landscape, if you will? You mentioned IBM and Hortonworks release this week, but what in general, how does the partnership strategy look for you? >> The more it changes, the more it looks the same. When you go back 20 years ago, what Red Hat has always stood for is any application on any infrastructure. But back in the day it was we had n-thousand of applications that were certified on Red Hat Linux and we ran on anybody's server. >> Box. >> Running on a box, exactly. It's a similar play, just in 2018 in the world of hybrid, multi-cloud architectures. >> Well, you guys have done some serious heavy lifting. Don't hate me for saying this, but you're kind of like the mules of the industry. You do a lot of stuff that nobody either wants to do or knows how to do and it's really paid off. You just look at the ascendancy of the company, it's been amazing. >> Well, multi-cloud is hard. Look at what it takes to do multi-cloud in DevOps. It's not easy and a lot of pretenders will fall out of the way, you guys have done well. What's next for you guys? What's on the horizon? What's happening for you guys this next couple months for Red Hat and technology? Any new announcements coming? What's the vision, what's happening? >> One of the announcements that you saw last week, was Red Hat, Cloudera, and Eurotech as analytics in the data center is great. Increasingly, the world's businesses run on data-driven decisions. That's great, but analytics at the edge for more realtime industrial automation, et cetera. Per the announcements we did with Cloudera and Eurotech about the use of, we haven't even talked about Red Hat's middleware platforms, such as AMQ Streams now based on Kafka, a Kafka distribution, Fuze, an integration master effectively bringing Red Hat technology to the edge of analytics so that you have the ability to do some processing in realtime before back calling all the way back to the data center. That's an area that you'll also see is pushing some analytics to the edge through our partnerships such as announced with Cloudera and Eurotech. >> You guys got the Red Hat Summit coming up next year. theCUBE will be there, as usual. It's great to cover Red Hat. Thanks for coming on theCUBE, Brent. Appreciate it, thanks for spending the time. We're here in New York City live. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vallante, stay with us. All day coverage today and tomorrow in New York City. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> From Times Square, in the heart of New York City, it's theCUBE. Covering Imagine 2018. Brought to you by Automation Anywhere. >> Welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE, we are at Automation Anywhere in midtown Manhattan, 2018, excited to have our next guest, he's Kevin Kroen, he's partner of financial services, intelligent automation leader at PWC, Kevin, great to see you. >> Thank you. >> So financial services seems to be a theme, we're here in Manhattan, why is financial services an early adopter or maybe a frequent adopter or an advanced adopter of the RPA technology? >> Sure, so I think as we see our financial services clients and their agendas, there's been a huge focus on productivity and simplifying their overall operating model over the past couple of years. Banks in particular have gone through several years of having to focus their spending on non discretionary manners like regulatory compliance and risk management. And what that's generated is a need, as they started looking towards the next generation to really start thinking about what they're gonna look like in a post regulatory environment. And automation has quickly risen to the top of the agenda. >> What they're gonna look like in a post regulatory environment. >> Yes. >> Why a post regulate? >> Well I mean if you look through, you know what banks have had to deal with in term of Dodd-Frank, in terms of CCAR, you know, the regulation from federal reserve, these are things that took a lot of spending both on implementing operational processes and on implementing technology. A lot of that work is starting to you know, the banks are putting that behind themselves and so as they look forward and look at how they're going to gain more profitability in the future, the challenge becomes, there's not necessarily a new set of product innovation coming in, and so you have to really look at the expense line. >> Right. >> And so because of that automation has risen to the top of that agenda and so this continues to be one of the top areas of interest that we're getting from our clients. >> Right, so when you say post regulatory, you mean like a new regulation that they have to respond to, not that they're suddenly not gonna be regulated. >> There's not a lot of new regulations coming in right now, especially- >> That pesky one last week, GDRP. >> Yeah but in the US we're in an environment right now, there was just, you know, the revisions to the Dodd-Frank bill that were passed a lot of regulatory rules were actually being loosened so you don't necessarily have an increase in dollars that are going to be going into that. >> Right right, so it just always fascinates me, right, I thought ERP was supposed to wring out all the efficiency in our systems but that was not the case, not even by a long shot and now we continue to find these new avenues for more efficiency and clearly this is a big one that we've stumbled upon. >> Yeah, you know I think it's interesting, when you look at big technology investment over the last decade or two, you could argue a lot of efforts been focused at what I call the kind of core infrastructure and core plumbing so you know, how do I consolidate data into a single location? How do I make sure that data reconciles into different parts of my organization but that like kind of last mile of what someone does as part of their day to day business process was never really addressed, you know or is only addressed in pieces, and so I think as you start looking at the productivity term and how you actually start getting efficiency, we have very few clients that are saying, I want to take on that next big ERP type of limitation or I'm ready to spend 300 million dollars on a new project, they're looking to try to get the most value out of what they already have and they're actually looking to look at that last mile and how can they actually gain some benefit off it so the RPA technologies I think we're one of the catalysts of just being the perfect technology in the right place at the right time from a current business environment, a current technology spend perspective. >> Yeah it's pretty interesting Mihir was talking about, you know one of the big benefits is that you can take advantage of your existing infrastructure, you know, it's not a big giant rip and replace project but it's, again, it's this marginal incremental automation that you just get little benefit, little benefit, little benefit, end of the day, turns into a big benefit. >> Yeah, and I think that's, you know, it's quick, it's fast, it's, you know it can be implemented in an agile manner and you know, our clients are continuously telling us over and over again, they're willing to invest, but they wanna invest where they're gonna see a tangible payback immediately. >> Right. >> And I think when you start to talk the concept of digital transformation, it can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people but there are big picture changes that could be made, those may be longer term trends but they're more immediate things and more immediate benefits that could be gained and I think that's really the sweet spot of where RPA and Automation Anywhere fall into. >> I was just looking up Jeff Immelt in his key note said this is the easy fountain money of any digital transformation project, I think that was the quote, that you'll ever do. That's a pretty nice endorsement. >> Yeah and it's, as we go out, we talk to CFOs, COOs, CIOs, you know, it's, the value proposition is really attractive because, you know, there have been, there's a track record of failed, technology projects failed big transformation projects and, you know, no one wants to necessarily risk their career on creating the next big failure and so I think using technology like RPA almost as an entry point or kind of like a gateway drug into the digital world, see the benefits, start to understand what are some of the business problems and historical kind of, you know, things you're trying to untangle in your infrastructure, attack that and then, you know, start to layer on additional things on top of that, once you get good with RPA and then you can start figuring out, okay, that's they gateway to artificial intelligence, okay how do I start to apply AI across my organization? As you get beyond AI, okay, how do I get into, more advanced state infrastructure and you can start thinking about this world where you can, you know, rather than do the big, five year project where you're gonna try to solve world hunger, it gives you a chance to kind of incrementally go digital over time and I think that's definitely the direction we see a lot of our clients wanting to go in. >> Right, Kevin I want to get your feedback on another topic that came up again in the keynote, was just security, you know it was like the last thing that was mentioned, you know, like A B C D E F G and security, financial services, obviously security is number one, it's baked into everything that everyone's trying to do now, it's no longer this big moat and wall, but it's got to be everywhere so I'm just curious, from the customer adoption point of view, where does security come up in the conversation, has it been a big deal, is it just assumed, is there a lot of good stuff that you can demonstrate to clients, how does security fit within this whole RPA world? >> You know with security and I would just say the broader kind of risk management pieces to the operator infrastructure are one of the first questions we get asked and a highly regulated environment like financial services, you know, the technology is easy and powerful with RPA but you also have to take a step back and say okay, I can program a bot to go do anything in my infrastructure, and that could mean running a reconciliation or it could mean going to our wire system and trying to send money out the door. And so there's a lot of concern around, not only understanding the technical aspects to you know, how the tools work with different types of security technologies, but more looking at your approach to entitlements and your approach to how you actually manage who has access to code bots, deployed bots in production, the overtime, understand what happens, you know we did a presentation to a board of directors a couple months ago on kind of automation more broadly and you know this is, you know, senior level executives the first question we got was, you know, okay, how do I prevent the 22 year old kid that just came off of campus from building a bot that no one knows about, setting it loose in our infrastructure and it going rogue, right? And so I mean this group was pretty savvy, they caught onto it very quickly and you know, the CIO of this client was sitting next to me and she kind of didn't have an immediate answer to that and I think that was kind of the a-ha moment, this is something we really need to put some thought into around you know, who are we gonna let build bots, what policies are gonna be set around how bots get deployed into our production environment, how are we gonna monitor what happens? You know how are we gonna get our auditors, our operational risk folks, our regulators, how are we gonna get all our different stakeholder groups comfortable that we have a well controlled, well functioning bot infrastructure that exists? >> Right, cause the bots actually act like people, they're entitled as like a role right, within the organization? >> We have clients that have literally had to set bots up as new employees, like they get onboarded, they have a, you go to the corporate directory and you can see a picture of R2D2, right like and it's the way they get around how they get a bot intel to a system but it's still, it's not a human right, so you still have to have a policy for how you actually will get code that uses that bot entitlement to function right and so that has to be done in a well disciplined, well controlled manner. >> Right, because to give them the ability to provide information to help a person make a decision is very different then basically enabling them to make that decision and take proactive action. >> Exactly. >> Yeah, it's funny we talked to Dr. Robert Gates at a show a little while ago and he said the only place in the US military where a machine can actually shoot a gun is on the Korean border, but every place else they can make suggestions but ultimately it's gotta be a person that makes the decision to push the button. >> And we're seeing, you know, trying to equate that to financial services, you see a similar pattern where there are certain areas where people are very comfortable playing this technology, you know you get into accounting and reporting and you know more back office type processes, you got other areas that people are a little less comfortable, you know anything that touches kind of wire systems or touches things that, you know, going out the door, touches kind of core trading processes, things like that there's a different risk profile associated with it. I think the other challenge is too is RPA is getting the gateway drug into this going back to my previous point, as you start to layer additional technologies into this, you might have less transparency over understanding clearly what's happening, especially as artificial intelligence takes a much broader role in this and so there's gonna be a lot of scrutiny I think over the next couple years put into like how do I understand the models that are created by artificial intelligence technologies and those decisions that are being made because you, if your regulator says, okay, why did you make this decision, you have to be able to explain it as the supervisor of that intelligent bot, you can't just say, oh it's cause what the machine told me to do, as so, that'll be one of the interesting challenges that's ahead of us. >> Yeah it's good, I mean it's part of the whole scale of conversation, I had interesting conversation with a guy, talking about really opening up those AI boxes so that you have an auditable process, right, you can actually point to why it made the decision even if you're not the one that made it in real time and it's doing it really really quickly so. >> Exactly. >> Really important piece. >> Yeah and as PWC, it's one of our challenges, as a consultant I'm helping clients implement this, my colleagues in our audit practice are now grappling with that same question because we're increasingly being asked to audit that type of infrastructure and have to prove that something did what it was suppose to have done. >> Right, right, alright Kevin, well nothing but opportunities for you ahead and thanks for taking a few minutes to stop by. >> Okay, thank you for having me. >> Alright, he's Kevin, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE from Automation Anywhere, Imagine 2018 in Manhattan, thanks for watching. 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>> From Times Square, in the heart of New York City, it's theCUBE. Covering Imagine 2018. Brought to you by Automation Anywhere. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in Manhattan at the Automation Everywhere Imagine 2018. About 1,100 people talking about RPA, Robotics Process Automation, bots, really bringing automation to the crappy processes that none of us like to do in our day to day job. And, we're excited to have a practitioner. He's out in the field. He's talking to customers all the time. It's Weston Jones, and he's the global intelligent automation leader for EY. Weston, great to see you. >> Yeah, thank you, good to be here. >> Absolutely, so it's funny, you said you've been with these guys for a number of years, so when did you get started, how did you see the vision when nobody else saw it, and here we are five years later, I think, since you first met 'em. >> Oh, I know, it's just funny. I mean, years ago I saw Automation Anywhere at conferences. They were one of the small booths, just like everybody else was, talking about automation. I watched them for several years, and then I decided one year when we were looking at some of our offerings to bring in RPA and talk to our leadership about it, and kinda the light bulbs went off. So, from five, six years ago 'til today we've been working with them, and it's really amazing to see kind of how things have changed, and how the adoption has taken place. >> You know, it's such a big moment in a startup, especially software company, when you get a big global integrator like you guys to jump in, you know, advisory service. It's really hard to do. I've been in that position myself, and you guys don't make the move unless you really see a big opportunity. So, what did you see in terms of the big opportunity that made you, you know, basically bet your career on this vertical? >> Well, so when I went to our leadership, in the meeting I had our global shared services leader. So, we have 7,000 plus people on our shared services, and he was very skeptical. We had to do 20 plus proof of concepts with him, and HR, IT, finance, et cetera, to get him excited about it. Now, he's our biggest fan, and actually we promoted him to run our global internal automation team where now we think we're one of the largest users of automation. We're one of the biggest users within tax. We use Automation Anywhere within tax. We have over 750 bots working, and we have a goal to have 10,000 plus by 2022. So, we're really pushing the bar in scaling. >> From 750 to 10,000, what are we, 2018, in four years. >> In four years. That's our goal. >> So, where did you find the early successes, what kind of bots specifically, what type of processes are kind of right for people that are interested, see the potential, but aren't really sure kinda how to get started, or to get that early success? >> Yeah, I mean, it's just almost like anything else, the quick wins, you know. Start with things that are very rules-based, that have a lot of people, FTs associated with them. You know, our thing wasn't that we were actually eliminating FTs, we were just developing capacity, 'cause we're a company that's growing, so instead of hiring more and more people, we took all that mundane work out of people's jobs and allowed them to focus on things that were more value-added. So, the block and tackle stuff-- >> Like what? Like, give me a couple of, you know, just simple stuff-- >> well, we have like HR onboarding, you know, we onboard 60,000 people a year. HR onboarding is something that's very repetitive activity, logging in and out of multiple systems. And, it was something where we were hiring HR professionals that knew how to do talent management, that knew how to do all these things we really wanted them to do, but we had 'em focused on doing a lot of very transactional type activities. So, we said why don't we use the technology for that. Let's free these people up so they can then focus on developing talent, career ladders, other things that we really wanted them to focus on. Other things like, you know, payments, matching, and payment application, things like that, password resets, you know, a lot of stuff that you, I mean, you can just think of in your head. A lot of stuff in finance, a lot of stuff in HR and IT. Even our supply chain, too. We're doing like T and Es, we're doing a lot of automation in our T and E area. But, that to say, I mean, I've mentioned all back office things. We're also doing a lot of front office. So, for example, in our tax department we use almost exclusively Automation Anywhere to do tax returns for clients. And, we have, I think, over a million plus hours that we've eliminated using Automation Anywhere. >> Now, how do you Automation Anywhere a tax return? >> Well, tax return is a very complex set of rules, and you basically, once you kind of load the rules in for certain activities, it's stuff like pulling data from one system into another, you know, doing multiple taxed jurisdictions. >> Is it just like particular steps within that, you just kinda pick off one little process at a time, one little process at a time? >> True, and then you can also put in, you can do a nice interface in the front, and you can have people giving you the data, and then you let the automation then get the data to the right parts within the tax return. >> So, I'm curious in terms of the people that create the bots. Who are they, kinda what skill sets do they have, and do you see that changing over time as you try to go from 750, whatever it is, a 20x multiple, over four years? Do you see kinda the population of people that are able to create and implement the bots growing? How do you, kinda, managing the supply side on on that? >> We have a philosophy that 70% of it's process, 30% of it's technology. We're fortunate that in our advisory area across all the major functional areas, supply chain, HR, finance, et cetera, we have process experts. So, we use those process experts to get the process down, and then what we do is we have core development teams around the world. We have a big team in India, a big team in Costa Rica. We have a team in China, and elsewhere. And, those are the developers. And, so our process people map out the process and then hand that off to the developer. So, developers, you know, we basically, I mean, with Automation Anywhere's help, we've trained them to do the work and they've made it more and more, as time goes on, they made it easier and easier for them to develop bots. And, so We've been able to take people almost right out of college. We've hired some high school students. We take people that, you know, two thirds of the American population doesn't have a college degree, so we hire non-college degrees and teach them how to do this. Not that it's easy, and to be really good you have to have time and experience, but we can teach them to do these types of activities for us. >> That's amazing. So, I wonder if you can share what are some of the biggest surprises, you know, kind of implementation surprises, or ROI types of surprises that you found in implementing these 750. >> Yeah, so one thing I tell people about is if you talk about the Gartner Hype Curve, you go up and you fall into the valley of disillusionment, and, you know, there's gonna be four or five of those valleys that are gonna happen, and you just need to power through them because the technology is so compelling, and the benefits are so compelling. I mean, there's over a dozen benefits whether it's cost savings, improved security, better accuracy, whatever. So, some of the surprises were scaling. Like, when I talk about the DIPSS, the D-I-P-S-S, DIPPS, the first one is gonna be data. People are gonna realize that their data isn't quite there in order to do the more intelligent activities. The integration, so integrating the RPA with the more intelligent pieces of the IQ bot, and other things, how do you do those integrations, how do you take other tools outside of that and integrate them. The third is penetration. I mean, penetration is very small right now. What happens is people tend to look at a whole process that needs to be automated when what you need to do is you need to think about breaking those processes apart. Like FPNA, for example, may have a couple dozen steps to it, but there are pockets of steps that are very automatable. For example, pulling data, structuring it, normalizing it, getting it into some kind of report, that can all be done by automation, then hand it off to someone to do more cognitive activities. So, the penetration is very small right now, but will continue to grow. The savings, you know, have realistic expectations on savings. When this first came out of the door a lot of people were talking very, very high numbers. I mean, you can get it every once in a while, but, the saving numbers, just be realistic about that. And, the last part is scaling. We found scaling to be something that, you know, at the time when we were doing it, very few people had done it. So, to figure out how do you scale, and how do you develop a bot control room, how do you manage the bots, how do you manage the bots interfacing with people, how do you manage the bots interfacing with other technologies. It's a lot more to it than just putting the bot up and letting it work, because they need care and feeding ongoing, because it's not related to the Automation Anywhere technology, it's more of the other things it touches, like website changes, like upgrades to different systems that the bot has to execute with. Those are gonna constantly change and you just need to make sure you're adjusting the bot to actually work in those environments. So, those are kinda the four or five things that we've seen. And, when we go from 750, to 1,000, to 10,000, I mean, we think we're gonna see much more orchestration type things. You know, how do you orchestrate in a more automated way across the bots, the people, and then the other technology. >> Right, it's funny on the scale issue 'cause they were talking about, you know, how do you go from 10 bots, you got 750 to 10,000, and there's been a concept under it that they are a digital workforce, implying that you have to manage 'em like a workforce. You gotta hire 'em, you gotta train 'em, you gotta put 'em in place, you gotta kinda keep an eye on 'em, you gotta review 'em every now and then, and really it's an active management process, it's not just set and forget. >> Yeah, we're hoping that we'll have, I mean, we have some of this already, but we'll have bots managing bots. Well, bots auditing bots. We'll have bots orchestrating bots. That's all gonna eventually happen. I think we can do some of it today, but it's gonna be more and more common. The orchestration piece is really the thing that is gonna be new, that is gonna drive a lot of people this hard to scale. >> The other two consistent themes that you just touched on that we talked a little bit before we turned the cameras on, is Amara's Law, my favorite. You know, we overestimate the short term, which Gartner might call the Hype cycle, but we underestimate in the long term. Really, the other one is kinda just DevOps, and there's DevOps as a way to write code, but I think, more importantly, is DevOps as a culture, which is just look for little wins, little wins, little wins, little wins, little wins, and, before you know it, you've automated a lot and you're gonna start seeing massive returns on that effort versus the, oh, let's throw it in, we're gonna get this tremendous cost savings on day zero, day one, or day 10, or whatever it is. That's really not the strategy. >> Well, I think a lot of people maybe don't like to hear this, but it's a journey. I mean, you start out using the technology where you can. So, it's not a technology play, it's solving your biggest, most complicated problems, that's the key. And, whatever technology you need to do that, use that. So, you do the RPA, then you get more benefit when you add the IQ bots, and the intelligent stuff, and you get more benefit when you start adding, you know, technologies that are even ancillary, like Blockchain, IoT, and things like that. You'll get more and more kind of benefits from this technology. >> All right, Weston, well, thank you for sharing your stories. It's good to get it from the front lines. And, good luck on making 20,000 bots in four years. >> Thank you, thank you. >> He's Weston, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE from Automation Anywhere Imagine 2018. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

from New York it's the cube covering blockchain week now here's John furry hello everyone welcome back to this special cube exclusive on the water coverage of the awesome cryptocurrency event going on this week blockchain week New York City D central Anthony do re oh seven a big special event launching some great killer products me up to cube alumni that we introduced at polycon 2018 Genevieve Dec Monroe and Jeromy Gartner great to see you guys thanks for having us so you guys look fabulous you look beautiful you're smart we're on a boat we're partying it feels like Prague it feels like prom feels like we are at the top of another bubble couldn't feel better five more boat parties and then the bubbles officially at the top but we're only had the first boat party well the real existential question is what do we view next you know we've we've graduated from nightclubs and strip clubs and now two super yachts like do we go on a spaceship neck's or a Boeing Jets yeah I mean the options are somewhat limited in how we scale up the crypto parties I actually heard today one of my clients is launching in space a crypto mining operation that's fueled by solar power so we might be going to space Elon Musk wants to get involved I agree like where are we going you guys are awesome I love the creative so this party to me is really a testament of the community talk about the community I see polycon was great in Puerto Rico they had restart week and that but I heard these guys saying here at the central that the community's fragmented is the community fragmented seems like it's not out there or just only one pocket of the community I think the community so we have 10,000 people at consensus okay so these are 10,000 people that have gone down the rabbit hole and they're all at the Hilton in midtown Manhattan kind of going like how'd you get involved why are you here 10,000 people is a lot but I think that yeah we're we're at the decentral party so some of the yeast communities are being fragmented but I think we're having like infrastructure built to kind of connect the broader world to the things whether it's custodial services whether it's like tonight the jocks 2.0 wallet and you know everything that's getting involved there I don't know Jeremy Jeremy it's like an international traveler so you Carly Jeremy it's 100 percent in an echo chamber more importantly rabbit holes are like dark and confusing places that there are they're winding and a lot of people are here for very different reasons and thus when you have all these new entrants to the industry to this technology here for all these different reasons of course you have some fragmentation you know in many regards the ideological and philosophical roots of Bitcoin and blotchy technology have been lost son on many of the new entrants and and so it takes time to get to the point where we're all winding I think different blockchains and different applications of this technology will have different kind of approaches to how people think about investors always gonna be pragma because this is a massively growing industry that touches upon every kind of business and governmental and non-governmental it's actually fragmentation is a relative chairman is Genevieve you I saw you and you guys are working with things from cannabis coin I think you had to cannabis cabin this week in New Yorker yeah we're doing that tomorrow night actually so crypto and cannabis are two the hottest millennial sectors right and so we kind of like to say Agri capital we like to dance on the edge of chaos I actually found out about a cannabis company in Vancouver so just outside Vancouver that is using a crypto mining operation and all the excess heat that is coming off that to power a grow-op so we're literally at the intersection of crypto and cannabis not just for our handling money but handling energy in a different way which is so fast that's real mission impact investing right there you know using energy to grow weed that's the Seidel impact isn't it good bad I mean even as you look at it you know better cannabis healthy cannabis is a mission people look care about we're helping people's wallets and we're helping people's minds right in like ways that the government banks and pharmaceutical companies are fighting against so you know if you can't beat them join them so I welcome Astra Zeneca and the Bank of Canada to come on board our mission this is specially turning into a cube after dark episode Jeremy I gotta get your thoughts on these industries because look at cannabis we joke about it but that's an example of another market this zilean markets that are coming online that are gonna be impacted so fragmentation is a relative terms but hey look at it I mean energy tech is infrastructure tech and solid that's what I'm concerned about who nails the infrastructure for network effects and what's the instrumentation for that that's the number one question that is essential question for the protocols whether it's Theory amore Bitcoin oreos Definity so forth the protocol that provides the strongest and and most adaptable and infrastructure and foundational technology is going to be one of the main ones are those will be the main winners and so the names I mentioned they're up there they're very competitive but it's anybody's game right now I think any blockchain can come along right now and be the winner a decade from now and for entrepreneurs represents a challenge because you have to figure out what blocks came to go build on this is why I am big on investing in interoperable Ledger's technologies that enable the kind of transfer smart contracts and crypto assets between blockchains it's a great great segue let's just get an update since we last talked what are you working on what are you investing in what's new in your world share the update on strangers so now my fund is officially launched where how much we launched with just over 15 million dollars and amazingly we launched at the perfect time we're already up 55% and we got making an investment for a venture fund we actually did the exact WA T investment which transferred over from my personal investment portfolio but doing great I have really run the gamut in terms of investments we're making on the equity side of things and in crypto assets but what we're seeing is really accomplished entrepreneurs coming to this space continue actually more optimism than I had felt at polygon poly car and I was like this market needs to correct in a real way today I think that Corrections been prolonged if we were gonna feel a lot of pain it was gonna be two months ago but instead I think it's gonna be one to three years before the market goes through the correction that we need to see for the real shakeout to happen because so many of these teams that I think are garbage have so much money yeah and they're just floating around they got has worked their way out it's just like a bad burrito at some point it's got a pass Genevieve what are you working on I'll see you've got grit capital what's the update on your end what's new yeah amazing actually literally tonight probably about 60 minutes ago my business partner and I signed one of the fastest-growing exchanges in Canada called Einstein exchanges of quiet so these guys have only ever raised like one and a half million u.s. and they're the biggest exchange in Canada by sign ups active accounts so they're probably doing like almost a hundred million in top-line transaction volumes and they're probably never going public somebody's probably gonna buy them but we're gonna be marketing them across the country getting customers I mean the tagline is it doesn't take I'm Stein to open an account it shouldn't take n Stein it by Bitcoin you can literally get this account set up in under 60 seconds so they're vampires ease-of-use surety reducing the steps it takes to do it and get it up and running fast absolutely like my dad could do it and like alright so we say now follow you on Instagram and Facebook which is phenomenal by the way I got a great lifestyle what's the coolest thing you've done since we last talked to Polycom Wow polycon was kind of a high really peaked and then everyone got sick like our team got said polymath untraceable cuz everybody just got the flu yeah we were like on adrenaline and we kept going ah what's the coolest thing that we've done since then I think it's signing up like cool companies like Einstein we also signed a big cannabis company in Colombia called Chiron they're about to go public I don't know Cole what do you think I don't know maybe what's the coolest thing you've done travel what's your good so last night Jeremy and I just met we're together on a blockchain Research Institute project that Sonova Financial is backing and meeting him so you guys working together on a special project right now how's that going what's that about JCO which is a new sort of financial services firm they're creating what it could effectively be understood as a compliant coin offering that is available to more than just accredited investors and that's they're making ico something that falls within the pre-existing regulatory framework and also accessible to your average Joe which I think it's really important if we're going to follow the initial vision for both blockchain technology and offerings all right final question I know you guys want to get back to your dancing and schmoozing networking doing big deals having fun what is blockchain New York we call about we could pop chain we here in New York what the hell's happening there's been a lot of events what's your guy's assessment of you observed and saw anything can you share for the people who didn't make it to New York or not online reading all the action what's happened so as someone that did not attend consensus spoke at three other events or speaking at three other events I can say with certainty that the New York box chain week has been about bringing together virtually everyone in the industry to connect and kind of catch up with one another which is really important we we don't have that many events Miami was too short the industry's gotten too big but having a full week of activities in New York City has enabled me to kind of foster relationships are oh I yeah man get a lot of work John well I've gotten so much work done I haven't had to actually be a date conferences to reconnect with just about everyone that I want to industry that's really special Genevieve what is your observation what have you observed share some in anecdote some insight on what happened this week I know fluid he started I saw Bilt's I was just chatting with him about it it was started in over the weekend it's gone up and we're now into Thursday tomorrow coming up well I don't think it's a coincidence that Goldman Sachs came out today and said that they were launching some sort of digital currency marketing yeah exactly using the power of the 10,000 people i consensus but yeah i know i agree with what jeremy says it's not really about being at consensus it's about what happens like behind closed doors it's all these decentralized parties that are happening yeah open doors but like it's you know like we hosted a core capital asset we had a hundred people in a suite at the dream hotel and it was just like you put the biggest CEOs of the mining companies in the world together and like put those with investors in a room it's like you know 100 people and that's where the deals happen it's not like in the big you know huge auditorium where like nobody looks at each other and everyone's on their phone well I gotta tell you how do we know we the Entrepreneurship side is booming so I totally love the entrepreneurial side check check check access to capital new kinds of business model stuff economics so we reported on all that to me the big story is Wall Street in New York City has been kind of stuck the products kind of like our old is antiquated like the financial products and like that's why Goldman's coming out they got nothing what they don't have anything what are they got so you see in a stagnant they got a traditional product approximately nothing really like new fresh so you got in comes crypto just do a crypto washer so I think I see the New York crowd going this is something that is exciting and we could product ties potentially so I don't think they know yet what that is but I think some of the things that are going on you guys I like I like so I my dad's always the kind of barometer to this whole thing and he's like when are they gonna come out with like a Salesforce stock column for the blockchain right like some sort of application that it doesn't matter if you're like illegal if you're like in investment banking like some sort of pervasive application that just goes wild you have that yet what is that happening Jeremy Jeremy did the date was it's the Netscape moment if you will the moment that blotching technology becomes tangible and now and in retrospect a few years out we may decide that's great for all the young browsers is a browser the original browse for the Internet that was that moment may have already happened we don't really know it maybe it been something like a theory a more augered you know something where there's a use case but people haven't wrapped their heads around it yet but if that hasn't happened yet it's coming it's where we're on the cusp of it because people know what bitcoin is they've heard of the blockchain it is part of the zeitgeist now and and that cultural relevance it's so important for having that Netscape moment Jeremy Jeremy thanks so much to spend the time here on the ground on the water for our special cube coverage of blockchain week new york city consensus you had all kinds of different events you had the crypto house where we were at tons of fluidity conference all this stuff going on good to see you guys you look great thanks for sharing the update here and the cube special coverage I'm John Faria thanks for watching Thanks