(bright upbeat music) >> Hello and welcome to theCUBE's coverage of International Women's Day. I'm your host, John Furrier here in Palo Alto, California Studio and remoting is a great guest CUBE alumni, co-founder, technical co-founder and she's also the VP of Product at Platform9 Systems. It's a company pioneering Kubernetes infrastructure, been doing it for a long, long time. Madhura Maskasky, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate you. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you for having me. Always exciting. >> So I always... I love interviewing you for many reasons. One, you're super smart, but also you're a co-founder, a technical co-founder, so entrepreneur, VP of product. It's hard to do startups. (John laughs) Okay, so everyone who started a company knows how hard it is. It really is and the rewarding too when you're successful. So I want to get your thoughts on what's it like being an entrepreneur, women in tech, some things you've done along the way. Let's get started. How did you get into your career in tech and what made you want to start a company? >> Yeah, so , you know, I got into tech long, long before I decided to start a company. And back when I got in tech it was very clear to me as a direction for my career that I'm never going to start a business. I was very explicit about that because my father was an entrepreneur and I'd seen how rough the journey can be. And then my brother was also and is an entrepreneur. And I think with both of them I'd seen the ups and downs and I had decided to myself and shared with my family that I really want a very well-structured sort of job at a large company type of path for my career. I think the tech path, tech was interesting to me, not because I was interested in programming, et cetera at that time, to be honest. When I picked computer science as a major for myself, it was because most of what you would consider, I guess most of the cool students were picking that as a major, let's just say that. And it sounded very interesting and cool. A lot of people were doing it and that was sort of the top, top choice for people and I decided to follow along. But I did discover after I picked computer science as my major, I remember when I started learning C++ the first time when I got exposure to it, it was just like a light bulb clicking in my head. I just absolutely loved the language, the lower level nature, the power of it, and what you can do with it, the algorithms. So I think it ended up being a really good fit for me. >> Yeah, so it clicked for you. You tried it, it was all the cool kids were doing it. I mean, I can relate, I did the same thing. Next big thing is computer science, you got to be in there, got to be smart. And then you get hooked on it. >> Yeah, exactly. >> What was the next level? Did you find any blockers in your way? Obviously male dominated, it must have been a lot of... How many females were in your class? What was the ratio at that time? >> Yeah, so the ratio was was pretty, pretty, I would say bleak when it comes to women to men. I think computer science at that time was still probably better compared to some of the other majors like mechanical engineering where I remember I had one friend, she was the single girl in an entire class of about at least 120, 130 students or so. So ratio was better for us. I think there were maybe 20, 25 girls in our class. It was a large class and maybe the number of men were maybe three X or four X number of women. So relatively better. Yeah. >> How about the job when you got into the structured big company? How did that go? >> Yeah, so, you know, I think that was a pretty smooth path I would say after, you know, you graduated from undergrad to grad school and then when I got into Oracle first and VMware, I think both companies had the ratios were still, you know, pretty off. And I think they still are to a very large extent in this industry, but I think this industry in my experience does a fantastic job of, you know, bringing everybody and kind of embracing them and treating them at the same level. That was definitely my experience. And so that makes it very easy for self-confidence, for setting up a path for yourself to thrive. So that was it. >> Okay, so you got an undergraduate degree, okay, in computer science and a master's from Stanford in databases and distributed systems. >> That's right. >> So two degrees. Was that part of your pathway or you just decided, "I want to go right into school?" Did it go right after each other? How did that work out? >> Yeah, so when I went into school, undergrad there was no special major and I didn't quite know if I liked a particular subject or set of subjects or not. Even through grad school, first year it wasn't clear to me, but I think in second year I did start realizing that in general I was a fan of backend systems. I was never a front-end person. The backend distributed systems really were of interest to me because there's a lot of complex problems to solve, and especially databases and large scale distributed systems design in the context of database systems, you know, really started becoming a topic of interest for me. And I think luckily enough at Stanford there were just fantastic professors like Mendel Rosenblum who offered operating system class there, then started VMware and later on I was able to join the company and I took his class while at school and it was one of the most fantastic classes I've ever taken. So they really had and probably I think still do a fantastic curriculum when it comes to distributor systems. And I think that probably helped stoke that interest. >> How do you talk to the younger girls out there in elementary school and through? What's the advice as they start to get into computer science, which is changing and still evolving? There's backend, there's front-end, there's AI, there's data science, there's no code, low code, there's cloud. What's your advice when they say what's the playbook? >> Yeah, so I think two things I always say, and I share this with anybody who's looking to get into computer science or engineering for that matter, right? I think one is that it's, you know, it's important to not worry about what that end specialization's going to be, whether it's AI or databases or backend or front-end. It does naturally evolve and you lend yourself to a path where you will understand, you know, which systems, which aspect you like better. But it's very critical to start with getting the fundamentals well, right? Meaning all of the key coursework around algorithm, systems design, architecture, networking, operating system. I think it is just so crucial to understand those well, even though at times you make question is this ever going to be relevant and useful to me later on in my career? It really does end up helping in ways beyond, you know, you can describe. It makes you a much better engineer. So I think that is the most important aspect of, you know, I would think any engineering stream, but definitely true for computer science. Because there's also been a trend more recently, I think, which I'm not a big fan of, of sort of limited scoped learning, which is you decide early on that you're going to be, let's say a front-end engineer, which is fine, you know. Understanding that is great, but if you... I don't think is ideal to let that limit the scope of your learning when you are an undergrad phrase or grad school. Because later on it comes back to sort of bite you in terms of you not being able to completely understand how the systems work. >> It's a systems kind of thinking. You got to have that mindset of, especially now with cloud, you got distributed systems paradigm going to the edge. You got 5G, Mobile World Congress recently happened, you got now all kinds of IOT devices out there, IP of devices at the edge. Distributed computing is only getting more distributed. >> That's right. Yeah, that's exactly right. But the other thing is also happens... That happens in computer science is that the abstraction layers keep raising things up and up and up. Where even if you're operating at a language like Java, which you know, during some of my times of programming there was a period when it was popular, it already abstracts you so far away from the underlying system. So it can become very easier if you're doing, you know, Java script or UI programming that you really have no understanding of what's happening behind the scenes. And I think that can be pretty difficult. >> Yeah. It's easy to lean in and rely too heavily on the abstractions. I want to get your thoughts on blockers. In your career, have you had situations where it's like, "Oh, you're a woman, okay seat at the table, sit on the side." Or maybe people misunderstood your role. How did you deal with that? Did you have any of that? >> Yeah. So, you know, I think... So there's something really kind of personal to me, which I like to share a few times, which I think I believe in pretty strongly. And which is for me, sort of my personal growth began at a very early phase because my dad and he passed away in 2012, but throughout the time when I was growing up, I was his special little girl. And every little thing that I did could be a simple test. You know, not very meaningful but the genuine pride and pleasure that he felt out of me getting great scores in those tests sort of et cetera, and that I could see that in him, and then I wanted to please him. And through him, I think I build that confidence in myself that I am good at things and I can do good. And I think that just set the building blocks for me for the rest of my life, right? So, I believe very strongly that, you know, yes, there are occasions of unfair treatment and et cetera, but for the most part, it comes from within. And if you are able to be a confident person who is kind of leveled and understands and believes in your capabilities, then for the most part, the right things happen around you. So, I believe very strongly in that kind of grounding and in finding a source to get that for yourself. And I think that many women suffer from the biggest challenge, which is not having enough self-confidence. And I've even, you know, with everything that I said, I've myself felt that, experienced that a few times. And then there's a methodical way to get around it. There's processes to, you know, explain to yourself that that's actually not true. That's a fake feeling. So, you know, I think that is the most important aspect for women. >> I love that. Get the confidence. Find the source for the confidence. We've also been hearing about curiosity and building, you mentioned engineering earlier, love that term. Engineering something, like building something. Curiosity, engineering, confidence. This brings me to my next question for you. What do you think the key skills and qualities are needed to succeed in a technical role? And how do you develop to maintain those skills over time? >> Yeah, so I think that it is so critical that you love that technology that you are part of. It is just so important. I mean, I remember as an example, at one point with one of my buddies before we started Platform9, one of my buddies, he's also a fantastic computer scientists from VMware and he loves video games. And so he said, "Hey, why don't we try to, you know, hack up a video game and see if we can take it somewhere?" And so, it sounded cool to me. And then so we started doing things, but you know, something I realized very quickly is that I as a person, I absolutely hate video games. I've never liked them. I don't think that's ever going to change. And so I was miserable. You know, I was trying to understand what's going on, how to build these systems, but I was not enjoying it. So, I'm glad that I decided to not pursue that. So it is just so important that you enjoy whatever aspect of technology that you decide to associate yourself with. I think that takes away 80, 90% of the work. And then I think it's important to inculcate a level of discipline that you are not going to get sort of... You're not going to get jaded or, you know, continue with happy path when doing the same things over and over again, but you're not necessarily challenging yourself, or pushing yourself, or putting yourself in uncomfortable situation. I think a combination of those typically I think works pretty well in any technical career. >> That's a great advice there. I think trying things when you're younger, or even just for play to understand whether you abandon that path is just as important as finding a good path because at least you know that skews the value in favor of the choices. Kind of like math probability. So, great call out there. So I have to ask you the next question, which is, how do you keep up to date given all the changes? You're in the middle of a world where you've seen personal change in the past 10 years from OpenStack to now. Remember those days when I first interviewed you at OpenStack, I think it was 2012 or something like that. Maybe 10 years ago. So much changed. How do you keep up with technologies in your field and resources that you rely on for personal development? >> Yeah, so I think when it comes to, you know, the field and what we are doing for example, I think one of the most important aspect and you know I am product manager and this is something I insist that all the other product managers in our team also do, is that you have to spend 50% of your time talking to prospects, customers, leads, and through those conversations they do a huge favor to you in that they make you aware of the other things that they're keeping an eye on as long as you're doing the right job of asking the right questions and not just, you know, listening in. So I think that to me ends up being one of the biggest sources where you get tidbits of information, new things, et cetera, and then you pursue. To me, that has worked to be a very effective source. And then the second is, you know, reading and keeping up with all of the publications. You guys, you know, create a lot of great material, you interview a lot of people, making sure you are watching those for us you know, and see there's a ton of activities, new projects keeps coming along every few months. So keeping up with that, listening to podcasts around those topics, all of that helps. But I think the first one I think goes in a big way in terms of being aware of what matters to your customers. >> Awesome. Let me ask you a question. What's the most rewarding aspect of your job right now? >> So, I think there are many. So I think I love... I've come to realize that I love, you know, the high that you get out of being an entrepreneur independent of, you know, there's... In terms of success and failure, there's always ups and downs as an entrepreneur, right? But there is this... There's something really alluring about being able to, you know, define, you know, path of your products and in a way that can potentially impact, you know, a number of companies that'll consume your products, employees that work with you. So that is, I think to me, always been the most satisfying path, is what kept me going. I think that is probably first and foremost. And then the projects. You know, there's always new exciting things that we are working on. Even just today, there are certain projects we are working on that I'm super excited about. So I think it's those two things. >> So now we didn't get into how you started. You said you didn't want to do a startup and you got the big company. Your dad, your brother were entrepreneurs. How did you get into it? >> Yeah, so, you know, it was kind of surprising to me as well, but I think I reached a point of VMware after spending about eight years or so where I definitely packed hold and I could have pushed myself by switching to a completely different company or a different organization within VMware. And I was trying all of those paths, interviewed at different companies, et cetera, but nothing felt different enough. And then I think I was very, very fortunate in that my co-founders, Sirish Raghuram, Roopak Parikh, you know, Bich, you've met them, they were kind of all at the same journey in their careers independently at the same time. And so we would all eat lunch together at VMware 'cause we were on the same team and then we just started brainstorming on different ideas during lunchtime. And that's kind of how... And we did that almost for a year. So by the time that the year long period went by, at the end it felt like the most logical, natural next step to leave our job and to, you know, to start off something together. But I think I wouldn't have done that had it not been for my co-founders. >> So you had comfort with the team as you knew each other at VMware, but you were kind of a little early, (laughing) you had a vision. It's kind of playing out now. How do you feel right now as the wave is hitting? Distributed computing, microservices, Kubernetes, I mean, stuff you guys did and were doing. I mean, it didn't play out exactly, but directionally you were right on the line there. How do you feel? >> Yeah. You know, I think that's kind of the challenge and the fun part with the startup journey, right? Which is you can never predict how things are going to go. When we kicked off we thought that OpenStack is going to really take over infrastructure management space and things kind of went differently, but things are going that way now with Kubernetes and distributed infrastructure. And so I think it's been interesting and in every path that you take that does end up not being successful teaches you so much more, right? So I think it's been a very interesting journey. >> Yeah, and I think the cloud, certainly AWS hit that growth right at 2013 through '17, kind of sucked all the oxygen out. But now as it reverts back to this abstraction layer essentially makes things look like private clouds, but they're just essentially DevOps. It's cloud operations, kind of the same thing. >> Yeah, absolutely. And then with the edge things are becoming way more distributed where having a single large cloud provider is becoming even less relevant in that space and having kind of the central SaaS based management model, which is what we pioneered, like you said, we were ahead of the game at that time, is becoming sort of the most obvious choice now. >> Now you look back at your role at Stanford, distributed systems, again, they have world class program there, neural networks, you name it. It's really, really awesome. As well as Cal Berkeley, there was in debates with each other, who's better? But that's a separate interview. Now you got the edge, what are some of the distributed computing challenges right now with now the distributed edge coming online, industrial 5G, data? What do you see as some of the key areas to solve from a problem statement standpoint with edge and as cloud goes on-premises to essentially data center at the edge, apps coming over the top AI enabled. What's your take on that? >> Yeah, so I think... And there's different flavors of edge and the one that we focus on is, you know, what we call thick edge, which is you have this problem of managing thousands of as we call it micro data centers, rather than managing maybe few tens or hundreds of large data centers where the problem just completely shifts on its head, right? And I think it is still an unsolved problem today where whether you are a retailer or a telecommunications vendor, et cetera, managing your footprints of tens of thousands of stores as a retailer is solved in a very archaic way today because the tool set, the traditional management tooling that's designed to manage, let's say your data centers is not quite, you know, it gets retrofitted to manage these environments and it's kind of (indistinct), you know, round hole kind of situation. So I think the top most challenges are being able to manage this large footprint of micro data centers in the most effective way, right? Where you have latency solved, you have the issue of a small footprint of resources at thousands of locations, and how do you fit in your containerized or virtualized or other workloads in the most effective way? To have that solved, you know, you need to have the security aspects around these environments. So there's a number of challenges that kind of go hand-in-hand, like what is the most effective storage which, you know, can still be deployed in that compact environment? And then cost becomes a related point. >> Costs are huge 'cause if you move data, you're going to have cost. If you move compute, it's not as much. If you have an operating system concept, is the data and state or stateless? These are huge problems. This is an operating system, don't you think? >> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's a distributed operating system where it's multiple layers, you know, of ways of solving that problem just in the context of data like you said having an intermediate caching layer so that you know, you still do just in time processing at those edge locations and then send some data back and that's where you can incorporate some AI or other technologies, et cetera. So, you know, just data itself is a multi-layer problem there. >> Well, it's great to have you on this program. Advice final question for you, for the folks watching technical degrees, most people are finding out in elementary school, in middle school, a lot more robotics programs, a lot more tech exposure, you know, not just in Silicon Valley, but all around, you're starting to see that. What's your advice for young girls and people who are getting either coming into the workforce re-skilled as they get enter, it's easy to enter now as they stay in and how do they stay in? What's your advice? >> Yeah, so, you know, I think it's the same goal. I have two little daughters and it's the same principle I try to follow with them, which is I want to give them as much exposure as possible without me having any predefined ideas about what you know, they should pursue. But it's I think that exposure that you need to find for yourself one way or the other, because you really never know. Like, you know, my husband landed into computer science through a very, very meandering path, and then he discovered later in his career that it's the absolute calling for him. It's something he's very good at, right? But so... You know, it's... You know, the reason why he thinks he didn't pick that path early is because he didn't quite have that exposure. So it's that exposure to various things, even things you think that you may not be interested in is the most important aspect. And then things just naturally lend themselves. >> Find your calling, superpower, strengths. Know what you don't want to do. (John chuckles) >> Yeah, exactly. >> Great advice. Thank you so much for coming on and contributing to our program for International Women's Day. Great to see you in this context. We'll see you on theCUBE. We'll talk more about Platform9 when we go KubeCon or some other time. But thank you for sharing your personal perspective and experiences for our audience. Thank you. >> Fantastic. Thanks for having me, John. Always great. >> This is theCUBE's coverage of International Women's Day, I'm John Furrier. We're talking to the leaders in the industry, from developers to the boardroom and everything in between and getting the stories out there making an impact. Thanks for watching. (bright upbeat music)

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by the M Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> I am Stew Minimum and my co host, Justin Warren. And you're watching The Cube live from VM World 2019 here in Moscow North. Actually, the 10th year that we've had the cubit this event joining me on the program, I have Brad Anderson and Keith Norby, both with Netapp. Brad is an executive vice president, and Keith is director of strategic alliances. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. So, Brad, I've had >> the pleasure of working with the, um where since 2002 it's one of the highlights of my career in Tech has been watching that growth of virtual ization a company that, you know. It was about 100 people when I first started watching them. And that wave, a virtualization that had ripples throughout the industry, was really impressive. But >> I didn't actually >> get to come to this show until 2010 Asai said. Our 10th year of the show, you were one of the few that were at the inaugural event that it's the 16th year of it. So >> just give us a >> little bit of ah ah, look back in. You know what you've seen changing Netapp, of course. You know, long longtime partner of ah of Via Mers. >> Absolutely. He was like 3 4000 for it was at a hotel in San Diego. And there's probably about 1000 people there, but I don't think they were planning 1000. So is the longest kind of room. And we had people that were just kind of a mile down. And finally, uh uh, the comment was, Hey, could we knock down a wall and kind of get people a little bit closer? So, no, that was a long time ago. And in fact, it was Diane Mendel. I had an opportunity of Aquino, and I think there was another key note from IBM. >> Yeah, well, you know, I'm sorry they didn't invite you back on stage this morning, but, you know, >> a little big, bigger show today. >> A little bigger. I think we're somewhere the ballpark. 20 thousands. What? This show's been for about the last five years. Conversations very different today. As I made commentary were in the post VM era. Today, V EMS are no longer the center of the conversation. And you know, multi cloud is something that they put out there, which is the story I've been hearing from net out for many years software company, living in all of these cloud environment. So talk to us a little bit about how that relationship with VM wear and what we're not upsets in the ecosystem is >> changing. I mean, you know, Veum, where has never happened, then where has been a great partner for a long, long time? And, uh, and net have strategies Clearly hybrid multi cloud. When you think about private clouds today, VM where has a huge footprint in that space, So they continue be super important. We probably have a more expansive definition of hybrid to us. Hybrid is private cloud and public cloud in all kinds of combinations. And but we also so strongly believe the multi cloud and so we are. You know, we're driving very hard for the hybrid multi cloud, letting customers basically start anywhere they want to with any cloud provider on Prem in the cloud, and have that you know that control of data irrespective of and move at their own pace. >> Yes, sir. Vienna, Where has long been one of those places where everybody can meet? So you mentioned knocking down walls. VM. Where is one of the few companies that actually succeeded in doing that and having people be able to work with partners in other eras? There was often a lot of fighting between different vendors, or it's here. It's whatever you as a customer wants to do, we will be there to do that with you. And that's another one of those companies. All right, if you have some data, we will help you manage it, no matter where it is. So what tell it tells about something that what are you doing right now in this Is New World, where a stew mentions it's a post of'em world. So in this post of'em world, how do you manage your data in that post VM world? >> Well, it's it's it's Ah, it's managing first of all, I mean, we really strongly believe place, and so we're gonna manage, you know, you know the data and start where the customer starts. I mean, we're not advocating that they have to start in cloud. They have to be on prim. There's an orderly path because depending on the customer, they're all going to take a very different path. And and so what we want to do is give him control. Their data, irrespective of the path, allow them to move on that path. But we're seeing at Netapp that it's it's the but the data is beyond the data that's increasingly about applications. And so, you know, you heard a little bit about Ah Kubernetes. That's That's something we've strongly feel as well on providing a set of tools to provide choice where, you know, you know, independent the cloud, you know, same kubernetes service, same different tools, same tool set. Same service is on prim or in the cloud. >> Yeah, Ned has a strong cloud. President's summer things like cloud volumes. Some of the other acquisitions that you've made that help you with the cloud journey, like some of them have sufferings, are really strong, >> know very much so. And and we think we can provide Ah ah, the superior customer experience. But then, if the customer wants to use, you know, a variety interesting set of tools we support that as well. We are supporting the customer on his journey with the tools as they ah determined. >> So, Keith, tell us about some of the strategic partnerships that helped net up. To be able to partner with these different customers and to bring different vendors together to help themselves. Customer problems? >> Yeah, well takes a lot of them. Thio, meet the customer needs, as you saw today in the landscape folks that are on the solutions exchange floor. It takes not just a partnership between net up and VM wear, but net up in Vienna, where plus v m net up in Vienna, where plus ah ton of other folks, Cisco has an example longtime partner of ours and flex pot. Then you know the fact that we're doing memory accelerator flex pod takes, you know, something that has had a long tradition of the, um where excellence with Cisco and is now the order of magnitude faster than anything you want for APS that need scale, performance, all the service capabilities of on tap for things like Metro Cluster and beyond. >> So you remember back years ago it was you know, you know who has the most integrations and with the M wear. And you know, if you know all the A I and Viv balls and all of those pieces and netapp always, you know, was right at the top of the list. You know, working in those environments may be brought if you want to enter this. But, you know, today, how do you give us some examples That kind of that joint engineering work that goes on between Netapp and VM, where obviously there's bundle solutions like flex pod, that's, you know, the sphere plus netapp in there. But you know that engineering level, you know, where does rubber with road? >> Yeah, it's funny because I've been at every vehicle except to, And so I've been with you. In the sense I've seen the landscape of these innovations where Steve Haired and some others would talk about the movie previews of things like the aye aye and bossy providers all coming. And that was the big thing you'd focus on. Now it's less about that, and I think it's more about what Brad is kind of brought to net happened in the focus on simplicity. Now the funny part about simplicity is that to deliver simplicity, much like the engineering detail to deliver Tesla or an iPhone is extraordinary, so the work isn't less. In fact, the work is Maur and you pre configuring or pre what you were wearing as much as possible. The work we started to do over a year ago between George Curry in our CEO and Sanjay Poon got together. We started planning on some multi cloud plans, and, uh, that's where you see a lot of our persistence and cloud volumes on VMC. You see us having a view more vow, didn't design Aneta Page C. I for your Private Cloud VD I solutions. And these air meant to draw NSX a kn and when his net I've ever had in NSX immigration all said, Now we have had a sex and integrations to make that easier to bring on board. We have the realized integration so you could build a self serve portal catalog just like it talked about today, and the list goes on and on, so it's funny how it's less. The features are important. But what's more important is trying to make this a simple it's possible for you to consume and then for the folks that need things like scale of maps and service is or they need the same cloud volumes in this data fabric on any one of the hyper scale er's. We have really the only end in story on that, and that's what makes the via More plus net up thing worked really well. >> So how do you balance the flexibility of being able to solve multiple customer problems? And they all have different needs. How do you balance the simplicity with that? With that complexity? And it was mentioned by Pat, make a note as well that you've got this kind of tension between. I need to be able to do everything flexibly, but that can sometimes lead the complexity. So how do you change that? To become simple for customers to use? >> I mean, I think the biggest thing it Z it's a design input. I mean, if if you start out with just trying to make the technology all it can be with a end of you know, one particular cloud or one particular partner, then it becomes very difficult. As he tried to expand it to multiple partners and because it's about choice. We're kind of think about that right up front. And so if it's a design input, it puts, it puts, as he said, to put some burden on the technical team. But it is a much more powerful solution if we if you can pull it off, and that's been a big part, and I think it kind of starts with this mentality that you know, it's about choice, and we gotta make simplicity. And now part of the value proposition, rather than after for thought as it has, may be historically has been. What if >> we could talk a little bit about customers? Because, you know the message I hear this morning is you know, you talk multi cloud, a cloud native. There's a lot of change in the industry, you know, I'm participating in couple of career advice events because remember back 10 years ago, it was Oh, my gosh, if I'm a server admin, I need to learn to be virtualization than it was cloud. You know, architects, but way know that change in the industry is constant. So, you know, what are some of the key drivers when you're talking to customers in general and specifically when you talk about in engaging in part with the M where, >> Yeah, I mean, I I think it starts with people just recognizing. Even if people haven't moved the cloud today, that tends to be their primary strategy. In a recent survey, I think we found 98% of the customers, said Cloud is her strategy. However, 53% said still on Prem is their primary compute centers. So you know they're not there yet. And so But because that's their strategy, then you know we have to respect that. And so So, uh, you know, increasingly you're seeing at Netapp Waleed with clout, even though we know customers aren't quite ready there. But we align to that long term vision. But then our strange made up helping the modernize What they have currently on prim helping build private clouds for the same service is they have him public cloud, and then let them have the complete absolute choice. What public cloud or multiple public clouds they want and designed with with, you know, that full spectrum in mind, knowing they could start anywhere on that on that scale. >> Yeah, the customers ultimately are gonna dictate to the market What Israel and I think over time, Pios sort of vet who is right on this stuff. And so history's a great lesson teacher of all those things, you know, for me, it seems less less about how many different things you can offer. And as you see whether we're at Veum World or at Red Hat Summit were made obvious. Reinvent or, um, coup con every every every vector, turn of the customers. Prism on this will say something different. But I think in general, categorically, if you look at it, you could start to just, you know, glean what you think are the real requirements. And by the way, the rule carpets are not all technical. You know, I think what what gets lost on folks is that there is a lot of operational political factors, probably political factors, a lot more than what a lot of people think. You know, they're just talking about what the what The speed is to re factor APs or to migrate APS. Frankly, there's just a lot of politics that goes with that. There's a lot of just stuff to work through, >> and that's where I think simplicity is so important because of those non technical reason. Simplicity resonates across the board. >> But I would say you have to have simplicity with capabilities. >> I mean, just one of the things you talk about, right? If I modernize some application, well, the people that were using that application, they were probably complaining about that old one. But at least they do have to relearn >> that. Have that that new one. So we're gonna have some exciting announcements tomorrow. So I'm kind of check out tomorrow's stuff that will announce with VM, where with Netapp tomorrow We're here at the show floor will be showcasing some of those things. We can't give away too much of that today. But, you know, we think the future is bright and together with with Veum Or, you know, this partnership, I think, has a lot of upside. Like you said, we've had We've had a 17 year history with, you know, hundreds of thousands of customers together and installed base that goes back to like you said to be very beginning. Um, I remember back to the very beginning of the ecosystem. Net up was one of the strongest players in that market on dhe Since then, it's evolved beyond just NFS. >> Well, hopefully bread. We can get you on a keynote for in another 10 years. Waken Knock that wall down Exactly. Exactly. >> All right, great. Want to give you both the final word? You know, so so many big themes going on, you know, takeaways that you want people to have from the emerald 2019 bread >> I think the biggest takeaway is that just like the show today you didn't hear a whole lot about virtualization. It's moving to contain her eyes and and we had netapp view that, you know, we support all virtualized environments on from across the cloud, moving to supporting all containerized application environments on premises and cloud. And it's about choices in combinations of both, but keeping data control. >> Yeah, I'd say for me, it's it's really the power of the of of the better together, you know, to me, it's nobody's great apart. It takes really an ecosystem of players to kind of work together for the customer benefit and the one that we've demonstrated of'em. Where with that plus Veum, where has been a powerful one for well, well over 17 years and the person that putting in terms of joint customers that have a ton of loyalty to both of us, and they want us just to work it out. So you know, whether you're whether your allegiance on one side of the Cooper natty criminals battle or another or you're on one side of anyone's stores. Choice or another. I think customers want Netapp on via mortar work. It's out and come up with solutions that we've done that. And now what? We wait for the second act of this to come out. We'll start that tomorrow. Teeth and >> Brad, thank you so much if you couldn't tell by the sirens on the street. We are live here at San Francisco at Mosconi, north of lots more coverage. Three days wall to wall coverage for Justin Warren. I'm stew. Minimum is always thank you for watching the cue

>> [Narrator] From San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Radio 2018, brought to you by VMware. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Radio 2018. We are in San Francisco for their VMware's Radio 2018. It's their R&D fiesta, party. As Steve Harris said, former CTO, it's like a sales kickoff for engineers. It's a great time, but it's also serious. A lot of real serious discussion and of course people are flexing their technical muscle and stretching their minds. And I'm here with one of the chief operator, one of the main principals and legend in VMware, Raghu Raghuram. Chief Operating Officer, new title. Chief Operating Officer, Products and Cloud Services. >> That's right. >> Great to see you. >> Great to see you, John. >> What year did you join VMware? >> 2003 (chuckling) >> 15 years >> So, you've seen many of these radios. >> Yes, it's one of the highlights of the year for me. >> Yeah, super important architect of VMware, great part of the community, leader, architect of the AWS relationship. >> [Raghu] Sure >> Part of that movement with Andy Jassy, Sanjay Poonen. This is the 14th year of radio and VMware has changed a lot since you joined. It's now a world class organization. Getting check marks for one of the best places to work. Certainly for engineers it's like a great party environment. Take a minute to explain the radio culture, it's 14th year, there's t-shirts behind us, to commemorate the key milestones, where it's come from, where it's gone, your thoughts on the program and the community. >> Yeah, I mean this is in fact one of the unique characteristics of VMware. I have checked around with my peers in the industry and I don't think any other tech company of our size does this. Radio stands for R&D innovation offsite. Like you said, we started fourteen years ago just to take a bunch of engineers out from their daily grinds and say, "what could we be building fundamentally that's groundbreaking?" So, I would say it's a cross between a wild science fair and a research conference. In fact, both of these go hand in hand at this place. People publish papers and there is a selection committee just like in serious conferences. In fact, Ray had some amazing stats for this year's submissions and the selection is very very rigorous. At the same time, you'll go upstairs and you'll see the exhibition hall where there are all kinds of things that are displayed. Things that could be very well incremental things in the next release and things that are wild and wacky off the wall that we might never ever do. So, it's really the full gamut. Another interesting thing is we've gone bigger. We are getting people from pretty much all parts of the Emirate. I think there is representation from 25 companies. >> [John] How many engineering centers are there roughly? I mean, there's core centers and then you have engineers all over the world. How many engineers, ballpark? >> I would say, in terms of medium to big size centers, there are probably over a dozen across the globe and literally every continent. Clearly, in the US we have four big centers. In Europe, we have three at least. In Asia, we have another three or four. So, we definitely have over 10. >> I mean everyone who knows the VMware and also knows theCUBE, for nine years, well this is our ninth year covering VMworld, all you gotta do is look at VMworld and you can tell one thing right out of the gate. Very community oriented. All the decisions are made in the community. Also, people who know VMware know you're highly an engineering organization. >> [Raghu] Yep. >> This is not like a lot of marketing fluff. Although, you do have some good marketing here and there, but the point is it's an engineering culture with community. This is unique. I've seen companies that don't walk the talk on "community engineering". They have silos, there's a lot of infighting. How have you- How has VMware preserved a culture of innovation amongst their peers when it's competitive as hell inside VMware? One to be smart, achieve the success. But, also, VMware has always been in always a moving market. How do you guys do it? What's the secret sauce? >> I mean, there's not a single thing. Like you said, culture is something that happens over time and is preserved over time and is preserved through people. It's not like anything you can write down, right? Of course you can write it down. But, it won't be worth the paper it's written down on unless it's practiced everyday by other people. And so, I think that is the key thing here. Right from the get go, customer centric innovation has ruled the rules here. So, the question to ask always is great innovation, look at it from a customer end point of view. I think that matters a lot here. Secondly, there is a lot of emphasis on breaking the rules in terms of doing something disruptive, right? And, the engineers that come here tend to be the kind to respond to that, right? And then lots of venues. Like this is not the only thing that we do, right? We do these things called borathons, which is our internal version of hackathons. We do regional versions of these things. Each of the teams, like the business units, have their own little R&D innovation activities that go on. >> They have a playground. They can basically go outside the scope of their job. >> Exactly. >> Get an idea, a passion, an idea and go after it and not have to worry about anything. >> Yup, exactly. >> [John] With a path to commercialization, if it hits. >> Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. We have a fairly high success rate, I would say, of taking things that we see here and turning them into product and eventually into monetizable businesses. All the things that go into the product features. >> Give some examples of historically, successes, notables, and then also talk about some ones that aren't notable that have come out. I know a lot has come out of this, the numbers are clear. What are some highlights that have come out of the radio event that have been blockbuster successes? >> A lot of the things that you see in the networking today came out of radio. Things about doing security and networking from the hypervisor up, came from here. What you see today as vSAN, had its roots here. What you see today with the app defense and the security stuff, had its roots here. A lot of the features that are in vSphere today, especially the storage vMotion and so on and so forth, was first showcased here. This goes on and on and on. We also have a lot of things that have shown up here that we have not pursued. For example, almost like an eBay for VM capacity. We didn't pursue it. God knows, that could've been a huge idea. (laughing) >> It's the misses too. >> Yeah, there's the misses too. But, that's the whole point of this. >> Yeah. There's parts to creativity. How much creativity goes on at this event? I mean there's certainly a lot of barnstorming, brainstorming, or whatever you wanna call it. A lot of interaction, physical face to face. How much creativity is happening you think here? >> Yeah, so a few years back they introduced a couple of things. One is a instant birds of a feather. Where you can literally go to a whiteboard and say, "hey let's discuss this topic," and set up a time and then people show up. There's this other one they call Lightning Rounds, which literally happens over drinks I think tomorrow or something. Where people come in and it's lots of the mini gauntlet where nothing is scripted. All sorts of crazy ideas keep flowing. I would say those are two examples where there's a lot of on the spot creativity. As a company, the R&D teams have gotten more dispersed. This is the opportunity for people to get together even within the same business unit or across business units and say let's go solve this problem. You and I have been talking about this on email, let's talk about it face to face. Hey, let's bring somebody else in that's relevant to this conversation as well. So, those are the kind of things that go on here that spark the creativity. And then of course, the exhibits. When people start thinking about these exhibits and talking to people that are showing there, other ideas get spawned off as well. >> Raghu, talk about just from your experience, you got a great track record, and certainly it was in VMware, it goes back to the early 2000s. What is your observation on the innovation formula? What's been the consistent constant of innovation? As the waves have changed- I mean, I've been in Palo Alto for 19 years now, in my 20th year. Even Palo Alto's changed. So, the world's changed, modern. And we'll get to the Amazon deal in a second. Certainly cloud's here. What have you seen as the constant innovation variable? >> What I would say is this. Fundamentally the people that we tend to recruit into VMware are by large what we call, or at least I call, platform thinkers. So, they think of building a fundamental piece of technology that can be possibly be used in 10 different ways, and they build it for one particular use case. And then, the questions goes back to, now we've done this, what else can we do with this foundational technology? If you look at vSphere, does the same thing. If you look at networking, same thing. Storage is the same thing. So, I would say that is the constant. That's one constant here. Which is, how do you build fundamentally a platform that could be used in very different ways. >> Some will also say systems thinking. >> Exactly, so that's a compliment. >> The cloud is a system. >> (mumbles) I think Paul Maritz is a 2010 picture. Although, some of the calls didn't come out. He kind of generally had the architecture. >> Yeah, yeah >> He nailed it (laughs) >> There are a few people like Paul in the world and absolutely he nailed it. >> Dave and I would give him a lot of credit for that. Okay, let's talk about Amazon Web Services. Certainly Radio's now 14th year. At what point did the cloud start clicking in? You said there's some misses, the eBay for VMs. Certainly cloud is on the radar. >> Yeah >> And vCloud, we know what happened there. Pat talked about how you guys really took that opportunity, which is, you made lemonade out of some lemons there with that product. That's my words, not his. When did cloud first appear on the horizon in Radio and how do you see that happening now as we talk multi-cloud? >> You missed the alumni session today. One of the early engineers said when he was interviewed by Mendel, which was in 1999, Mendel is of course the founder and first chief scientist here. He said he foresaw the event. When the engineer asked him, "how are we gonna make money on this?" He thought there would be a day when people just rent computer capacity from a data center instead of going out and buying gear. In some ways- >> He predicted >> He predicted >> Cloud operations >> Back in the company's starting days. But really I think we saw this in 2005, 2006, 2007. At the same time actually as Amazon saw this. But, the big difference was we were growing 100% a year on core business and we had our hands full that way. We felt like as a software company the way to play it was by delivering technology to other people to build it. So, that's when it really made it's way here, in Radio and in the products. >> And by the way, it wasn't obvious to many people in the industry at that time, to Amazon. I've had many conversations with Andy Chassy and he now uses the term being misunderstood. They were completely misunderstood unless you were an entrepreneur who was using EC-2 just to avoid seed money. 'Cause it was a dream for entrepreneur's at that time. I remember that clearly. That was not obvious. It really wasn't obvious until about 2010, nine, 10. So you guys were growing. Missed that. Radio is not about missing it. It's about identifying. >> Exactly. >> So, how does it translate today for Amazon? >> The Amazon relationship, if you think about the technical underpinnings of it, clearly we did a vCloud error. We learned a lot on that. Within some of our engineers, the question that was asked was, "what if we could run a cloud on top of other peoples clouds?" And we did experiments with nested virtualization. We did experiments with bare metal. And then we chose the start of our model. So, that's one of the technical early indicators of what we could do on other people's clouds. So, that's a big thing. The rest of the things we're doing with respect to elastically growing capacity and all those things, came from experiments that were shown up here. So, that was the connection back to Radio. In terms of the Amazon partnership itself, a lot of it was driven from the customer end. As we were thinking about VCN not working the way we wanted it to work, we went back to the customers and said, "what is wrong with this picture?" And, the answer that came back was very clear. They said, we like the hybrid idea, but we want the hybrid to be VMware on prem and Amazon in the cloud because 70% of our customers turned out to be AWS customers. And at the same time AWS was hearing the same thing. Why don't you guys team up instead of being either or? That's what led to the partnership. >> Your team at VMware came as the cloud native piece? >> Yeah >> Aspect of it. So Kubernetes is on the horizon. Not on the horizon, in your face. And you've got service mesh over the top. >> Yep, yep >> That's up the stack. It's networking. >> Yep, exactly. >> Still needs to do networking. >> Yeah, exactly. >> It's like, you guys must be like, hey we love what's going on up there. Come down to the store. >> Yeah. So, the boundary between what is application platform and infrastructure platform is constantly changing. Kubernetes, when it started out people said oh it's an application platform. Now it turns out its actually infrastructure. Same thing in networking. So what we see is, things were the lower level of the infrastructure constructs, the same idea is applied at the next level up. That's why we love Kubernetes. We love Service Mesh. We love similar concepts that are coming about in storage and security it's one- >> A unified stack is coming. >> Yep, exactly. >> Just someone fix networking and then the holy grail, programmable networks. >> Yep >> When are they coming? >> At the application level. >> Let's go >> Yeah >> Holy grail is finally here. It's not where you thought it was gonna be. >> It is at both places, right. I mean, it's tying back to the conventional layer, two layer, three stuff because that's also important still. >> Raghu, I love having a chat with you. It's great to chat. >> Good to see you again John. >> Super impressive with the work you've been doing. Love the cloud deal with Amazon, you know that. Love what's going on at Kubernetes and containerization. Love what's going on with Service Mesh, unified stack. Love cryptocurrency, which I didn't get to ask you. >> Yep >> Thumbs up? >> Crazy things going on there too >> Thumbs up, okay, thumbs up. >> We're watching the cryptocurrency. >> Watching, token economics coming right behind it. It's theCUBE bringing you all the action here at Radio. We're the signal. 2018, Radio 2018. I'm theCUBE with Raghu. I'll be right back with more coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Work, sorry. >> Okay, we're live here at VMworld 2012. This is SiliconANGLE.tv's exclusive continuous coverage of VMworld. Day two, we're here, excited to have the new CEO of VMware, a long time, seven time Cube alumni when he was a lowly president of the EMC, Pat Gelsinger, with my cohost Dave. And welcome back to theCUBE. >> Hey, thank you very much guys, great to be here. >> Pleasure to see you again. >> First time as CEO, so first of all, how do you feel, tell us what it's like. Obviously, just for the folks who haven't watched the EMC World interview, I asked you a pointed question. I said Pat, if you were running VMware, what would you work on? So we'll get to that later, but. >> Okay. >> It turned out to be true. >> Turned out to, yeah once again, theCUBE got it nailed, like always, right? >> Absolutely. >> So just give us some personal color around the transition. So you know Paul, obviously you guys had great rapport, obviously, on stage yesterday. You got a standing ovation, he's being called the King on Twitter, he's got a huge respect. You guys work together, just take us through emotionally, the Pat Gelsinger, inside Pat, what went down there? How did it feel? >> And the way he, said handing over the custodianship of the community, to Pat Gelsinger, that was really, I think a great way to put it. >> Well you know, first thing, Paul and I are just great friends, you know? For 30 years, we've worked together. It's like you know, a great pick and roll team in basketball right, you know he knows when to pick, I know when to roll. You know, we just have really learned how to work together over the years. And just great respect for each other's talents. And Paul embraced me, and really endorsed me to the VMworld, and the community, in that sense, is powerful, right? But it also was intimidating. A bit of a responsibility as well. And you know, I had dinner with Tom Jorgens last night. Right, it's sort of like oh, two weeks ago, we were trying to kill each other. Now, my new best friend, right? So it is this very rapidly shifting role. As well as, we laid out a pretty bold vision this week. >> And you were at Intel too, you understand the whole partnership dynamic, we talk about this in theCUBE, the ecosystem, obviously VMware, the beginning of this massive opportunity of extending beyond the VMware look. I mean you announced, as an example, people who not VMworld, that's always been about VMware, they've been dominant in the enterprise. But yesterday you announced changes to the pricing. I mean you guys are thinking bigger now. Is that part of the plan, to think bigger, beyond VMware, and extend to other vendors? Obviously great love fest on the CEO panel yesterday, and also the demos up on stage. So talk about that mindset, and what you plan to do to take it beyond just VMware. >> Well it is very much a community. And when you think about what we're doing with software defined data center, right we're always touching everything, as Paul said. It's virtualizing the data center. And to do that, you know it's the networking guys, the security guys, the storage guys, the management guys, the new application vendors, right? It really is this ever broadening community. And as part of that is both a great opportunity, as well as a great responsibility too, all of those community players. And how can we innovate together, collectively, to bring about this next layer of fundamental innovation, agility, and speed, for the software defined data center of the future. >> So we want to get to that in a second. I want to ask you about about Paul Maritz again, just to kind of come back to the Paul thing. He has yet to be on theCUBE, so we're trying to get him on theCUBE and say it's a safe place. >> Does he not like you? What'd you do, you offended him? >> We haven't-- >> I don't know, he's... >> People want to know about him, he made some really, kind of cool, tongue in cheek comments yesterday about Facebook's valuation and VMware, everyone had a good chuckle out of it. But talk about Paul Maritz as a person. He's rarely doing public appearances, he's a total tech geek, he's a cool guy. So share with the folks out there, what's he like? >> Well you know, I think of Paul as sort of the Michael Jordan of strategy and technology, right? You know, he is just, you know, I don't think of myself as a bad strategist, this is like, the best strategist operating in the industry today around technology, and it's somebody who's deep in the technology, but also strategically very, very broad. And in that sense, his new role is really to allow him to really go focus on what he truly loves, his longterm strategy, understanding the technology trends and really going deep in that area. >> And the technology right, and he's also a huge technologist. >> Oh yeah right, you know he's sort of like, tops and bottoms, right, he's higher in the stack, I'm lower in the stack and boy, right between us, we sort of cover from sand to solutions. >> Well you said it's somewhat intimidating. And you're a lifelong hardware guy, now taking over a software company, how do you think about that, and how do you think you might change the way you approach your leadership? >> Well I think in some ways, I've always thought of myself as an infrastructure guy, right? And you know, most of silicon is done in software these days, so in that sense, I don't see it as that radical in that regard. But I have had the opportunity to really build the hardware infrastructure that every aspect of cloud is built on, and now to be able to put tops on bottoms, right, to be able to layer that software on top of it, to me is just a great opportunity, to take on this next piece of finishing that overall portfolio. >> How does he fit with Joe Tucci? Because I just love the dynamic was on there yesterday. You know, and we've had a chance to, Joe's been on theCUBE, and we've talked to him in person. Great guy, he's just such a great executive CEO. He's been around the block. Paul's like his sidekick now, and those two guys are going to cause some trouble. What's your prediction on the Joe Tucci, Paul Maritz dynamic, because you've got a strategist that no one's ever seen before in the tech business in Maritz, now with a canvas, painting a new canvas. He's done VMware, he's got that thing kicked off, laid out the roadmap in 2010, it's all filling in nicely. It's all going great, you're going to take it from there and ride that ship, and sail into good waters. But now he's now painting a new canvas. What is Joe and Paul talking about? What's that next canvas? >> Well, if you sort of think about Joe right, he's really become, at this point of his career, I'd say the elder statesman of the industry. Where everybody likes Joe, he makes everybody comfortable with him. And you know, there's just this comfort that Joe really brings to any situation. So here you have the big brains of Paul being combined with the experience, the relationships of Joe, and to me, I expect it to be a really powerful combination. >> You know I was commenting to Dave on a lot of things yesterday, and tying in some kind of trendy stuff, like Apple's market share value, and looking at that percentage of market share. And then also when you guys were up on the panel, one of the observations was, you've got the elder statesman in Tucci, and the senior experience of Joe with Pat, you and Paul, and a lot of the companies like Facebook, are run by people under the age of 35. So there's a generation of kids out there running big companies that have market caps of a billion dollars, so that's now coming on to the scene. How do you see that all playing out? Is there a trend towards business value, some kind of digs around the social media discontent, and the markets changing? You made a comment about that. But is it shifting to business value? Is that kind of what you guys are trying to get there? What do you say to those young leaders out there? And also what's happening in that market? >> Well I do think that there is this aspect of you know, building infrastructure, data centers, right, there's just this piece of okay, it's hard work, right, you have to transition people over time, your customers or CIOs, there is a level of security, confidence, et cetera, that needs to occur on that side. And then you have the dynamism of the consumer trends. And you know, Cook at Apple clearly is the elder statesman of the consumer social side of the world as well, and you know, he's not a teenager anymore, in that sense. But clearly it's this ability to generate extraordinary growth, extraordinary new valuation, as we've seen with Google and with Facebook. And how all of that matures, for social to become a sustained monetization model in the industry, isn't really proven yet. >> You know I was really liking Michael Dell on stage, trying to really make his point, I'm not going away, yeah we did a direct business model, we're the PC guys. And then he's advocating, and it's good to see him back in the game like that-- >> Yeah, me too, I think Michael, over the last two years, you know he has a tough job. HP has a tough job, to really transform those companies. And we have to say okay, Michael, he's really made progress. >> A lot of the CEOs in that PC era, they put a lot of East Coast mini computer companies out of business I think, don't want to see that happen to themselves, are a lot more paranoid to these (chuckling) year olds companies firms, and really more aggressive about staying the course. >> Yep, and Michael I think, has clearly said, I'm up for this challenge, and I'm going to take my namesake company through that challenge. >> So I got to ask you a hardware question. Because you know that business. Now you're going to be moving more into the different kind of this, with virtualization and apps. But HP and Dell are classic PC vendors. They've innovated, they were part of the whole Wintel generational shift. They have huge market shares, still. Margins yeah, are tight, but the market's changing. You guys' point about that, a new way. Apple has huge market value, and they have single digit share and growing, in hardware, yet they're so valuable. So the logic is, if you connect the dots, small, single digit share, yet huge profits. Really great, good products obviously. But they're wrapping services in other business models around the hardware, what's your take on that? I you were at Dell and HP, and saying hey, don't give up that PC business, just move fast, don't become driftwood, but what kind of services are they going to have to wrap around these products? Because the end user computing world, yes it is changing, multiple devices, but Apple has demonstrated that you can have a very strong hardware business and wrap around it. So what's your advice to those guys? >> Well I don't think of Apple as a hardware business, in that sense, I think Apple has been focused on a user experience that happens to be embodied in hardware and services, right? And in that sense, they have owned the user experience. They're maniacal about industrial design, they're maniacal about that whole experience, and have really innovated in how consumers buy, utilize, their products, and I think any aspect of things that touch the user have to have that in mind. It's all about the user experience, and they've done it well, and they've said, it's not hardware, it's not software. It's that integrative platform and experience. And my advice to anybody in that space, whether it's Dell, HP, Lenovo, RIM, Nokia, Microsoft, you have to really take that very aggressively in mind. >> So you had your put your man on the moon moment up in your keynote, you said let's get to, virtually 100% of applications, versus, I think you said 90%. That's intimidating, I'm reminded of the climber who's climbing to the top of the mountain and it's like this false summit, right? So, my question is, to get there you're going to have to lick the complexity problem. And over the years in IT, we think we've got that problem solved, and then you peel the onion, and and oh boy, there's more complexity there. To get to that 90%, you're going to have to solve that complexity problem, are we, have we solved it, are we on that path? >> Well, I think we're beginning to lay the foundation for it. And I think some of the software defined data center pieces, okay you know, we got to attack management and orchestration, we got to attack the network and security. So clearly those are elements of it. We have to make storage easy and available. But we also have to attack some of the higher level problems as well. Some of the cloud foundry, the PAZ layers as well, because it's not just about modernizing the old, with things like GemFire, and Data Fabric, and rebuilding the database environment, but it's also enabling the new, and enabling those across the multi cloud environments. And you know, so it's a lot of work to go do. But I think we've laid out the core pieces of the vision, and now my job is really to refine, execute and accelerate that endgame. >> Pat, I got to ask you about disruption and change. Joe Tucci made a comment that I thought was pretty Joe Tucci-like, when asked about the trends. And he said the horizontal's getting shorter, and the vertical's getting steeper in terms of the time, the change and the disruption. And he's hyper focused on that. I know you are too, and you tend to move fast and executive in watching your career. So let's take this software defined networking trend. I know we reported that you were in, when you took over EMC Ventures and looked at that, and you guys moved on some of those deals. So that's really key success, and we talk about it on theCUBE, but that's a game changer for VMware, like SpringSource was acquired, acquisition changed the developer landscape, now you got the Nicira deal as a game changing statement, but you have existing stuff going on like VCE, which is pioneering a lot of the vBLock stuff right? So you got VCE out there, and now you got the software defined data center at the merging side. So how do you sort that out? I know you're you know, first week on the job, or first second day on the job, but I mean you know the history. So, VC obviously, is a flagship offering is the vBLock, how does that fit into this change? I mean it's quickly, the disruption's positive. But they got to react, so a lot of the moving parts have to kind of, get tweaked. What do you see there for VCE? >> Well, and clearly you know, we have, on the SDN side, before I answer the VCE piece of it, you know we have two incredible assets. Right, we have the whole vShield, VXLAN capability, which you'd say, inside of the VMware environment was already well down the path of SDN, and now we have the Nicira assets, and NBP, and Open vSwitch, et cetera, so now, job one for us is bring those together as the most complete offering for the SDN space in the industry. You know we got two great teams. Bring those together, and unquestionably, we got the top talent in the world. So we got to make that happen, and then, we have to make that available for our partners to be able to then innovate with us, underneath us, and on top of us. We announced Sisco partnership yesterday, around how we're going to work together on that hardware, software boundary. And then with VCE, it's used them as the world class delivery vehicle for converged infrastructure, but now from the VMware role, it's hey guess what, you know HP just did a great integrated demo of their converged integrated. How are they going to participate with our SDN assets? And how do we enable them, how do we enable Dell, how do we enable the rest of the industry? >> And VCE now, how's that relationship, that's a separate company, but it's well funded and they've knocked down some good deployments. It's pretty solid, is it a high end offering? Is it more of, I mean how do you sort that out product wise? >> Well you know, VCE vBLock has always been a higher end offering, that's where UCS is positioned. It really is the premiere platform in in the industry. And we expect to continue to invest in that and partner with them, and VCE's doing well, hitting a billion dollar run weight, so we're happy with them. But as I'm quickly learning, I've got other great partners as well. >> So ecosystems obviously, are organic, they're ever changing. How do these acquisitions that you make change the balance of the ecosystem? >> Well everyone of them is aimed at, can we do it through partnership, or should we do it as an integrated offering? And that, where that line is, is never the same. Right, and we might make a decision that hey, it's better done in ecosystem today, and two years from now, hm, it's time to integrate into the core operating system of VMware, that's just the nature of how software and operating systems are built over time. Now that said, hey we're going to be an ecosystem friendly company, and even where we choose to integrate will always have OpenAPIs that enable industry innovation around us because there's more bright people outside of VMware than there are inside of VMware. So, and if we don't allow people to innovate with us, well yeah, they're going to go innovate somewhere else. >> Well, they have to move fast. You can't predict every innovation that's going to come down the road, and boom, something like Nicira was started in 2007, I mean-- >> You know, and I did a speech last year. I called it the Golden Triangle of Innovation. And there are are three primary pools of innovation. What we do organically, inside of an enterprise, like VMware, what happens in the university community, and what happens in the startup community. And we believe that we effectively have to participate in all three of those. Yeah we have our roots from Stanford and that community, and Nicira comes from Stanford and Berkeley, so clearly we see the university piece of it. We see the inorganic piece of acquisitions, and obviously organic, cool things we're that doing like VXLAN inside of the company. >> You've done a great job, I mean we can honestly say, we've been tracking you from the original interview, you did those things, and every year we ask you, we'll ask you at the end of this interview, what's your plan for the next 12 months? So congratulations on that. The question I want to ask you is, yesterday we heard abstract, pool, automate, which kind of is like code words for operating system. And you know you got to abstract away complexities, have resource management, and then automate and make all of that link and load together. >> You're pretty smart, that's good. >> (chuckles) I had to look that up this morning on Wikipedia, so that's cool, and you've also talked about your historical experience at Intel, cadence of Moore's law, so the question I want to ask you is, as you take over the helm at VMware, you have a different kind of OS cadence going on that's very rapid, as Joe Tucci pointed out. What's your Moore's Law for applications look like? Because now you have an enabling infrastructure in the VMware products and technologies as well as the ecosystem, and you've got to foster that enabling technology. So what is the cadence of the app market? >> Yeah, and you know first I'll say at the operating system level, with VMware, we say boy, we like this yearly cadence. And it's nice that it sort of matches with tick-tock model at Intel which I helped create. And sort of the major, minor releases of VMware are sort of in lock step with that. And you know, because what sets a cadence? Why shouldn't it be three or four years? What should be the right thing? And hey you know, we sort of set, we built on a firm foundation of SILICA, and we're going to align heavily on that. To me this tick-tock through through the stack, and then if I look to the next level of the stack, clearly you know, agile and sprints and so on, have allowed app development to occur, I'll say in a social, crowd sourced model in an effective way, but I think fundamentally, you got to say what is your foundation? And I'd say boy, you know a yearly major release cycle, I think there's good, solid technical foundations for that. And then making sure that you have an effective ability to continue to do continuous innovation. >> So Pat, for the last five or seven years, this industry obviously, has focused on doing more with less, operational efficiencies, obviously the conversion infrastructure trend. John talked about abstracting, automating, or pooling and automating, all those things really driving efficiencies, and you know the story with IT spending. It's flat, it's been down, but there's a thinking out there, with big data, and with new Flash architectures, that we can have major impacts on productivity. When John asked you at EMC World, what would you do if you were running VMworld, you answered, part of your answer was more tighter storage integration. I want to ask you specifically about a top down storage integration, in other words, bringing Flash, really managed from the server level, doing atomic writes, and driving new levels of productivity for organizations that go beyond just sort of cutting costs and better TCO. Can you talk about just the vision of, is that the right place to do it? In other words, controlling the metadata from fast servers versus slow storage? You know, it's an interesting transition from a storage company to now where you are as the head of VMware. >> Yeah, unquestionably, you know we have to do a better job at VMware of taking advantage of Flash on the server side, the performance capabilities of that, the IO gap that's opened up. In-memory data applications, but at the same time, we're seeing the polar extremes become more polar. The size of big data, will forever drive these larger and larger pools of scale out data on the one end, and now with in-memory and Flash technology on the server side, the things that you can do with extreme performance characteristics, at the server, at the application level, and VMware has to do a better job of making that available. And some of the things that Steve talked about with vFlash is an example of that. And we are going to do a lot better job of enabling those high performance, in-memory characteristic applications on this end, while an agent with larger and larger pools of shared storage on the other end. >> And embracing Hadoop you get one in further, you're going to bring big data analytic applications, and actually potentially feed those transaction applications that you're virtualizing in near real time, is that direction. >> Oh yeah, absolutely, but to me, the phenomenal thing is the extremes that are emerging here, where everything used to be just in a shared storage array, we're now sort of blown apart, right? Now we have high performance and memory on one end, and these massive scale platforms, and multi petabytes on the other end. It's pretty spectacular, and I said I essentially want to operate on both of them in essentially real time. >> What's interesting Pat, when we were at EMC World, I asked you can there be a red hat for Hadoop, and you said, you know, editorialized, you said you don't think it could be. We recently had that debate on SiliconANGLE and pretty much the crowd is weighing in that there is no red hat for Hadoop, mainly because just the market conditions are different. So just, I wanted to share that with you, and that we're going to continue to do that-- >> I'm glad they agree with me, I like that, so. >> You've made some good calls on big data. The question I want to ask you is though, is in the major presentation yesterday, you guys laid out the new experiences, and you talked about old way, new way. Access, it was access, app, and infrastructure, PC users, to mobile users, existing apps to new apps and big data, service to cloud. So I wanted to ask you about converged infrastructure. Because that's the old way, so a lot of the definitions around converged infrastructure has been defined as part of that old side, that side of the street that's old. Yet, in the new operating system future that we talk to everyone about, data's now a key kernel part of the design. So I want to ask you, data infrastructure, define what data infrastructure is as it relates to the new converged, if it's not replacing converged infrastructure, how has converged infrastructure changed from old to modern with data at the center of the value proposition? >> Yeah, you know, my EMC World keynote speech touched on this a little bit, this idea of data gravity. Where data gets bigger and bigger and heavier and heavier, and as the networks become agile, and VMs become mobile, things sort of move around that gravity well of the data. And I expect that to continue forward. So today, converged infrastructure, you'd say what's at the center of a vBLock? Right, you say well, sort of the UCS servers, because that's where the apps run. And I think increasingly in the future, the center of converged infrastructure's more around the storage infrastructure, because VMs are so mobile and light in comparison. But the idea of collapsing the boundaries between server, network and storage, I think is still a very fundamental concept. And when you go look inside of a Google data center, they don't quite think about it the same way. It's this array of infrastructure that is agilely available for their different applications. And I think that's fundamentally the right model. And a cloud scale version of converged infrastructure makes a lot of sense as well. >> And highly homogeneous, and many have observed, obviously, the advantage that Amazon and Google have. And you're clearly, the software defined data centers moving toward a homogeneous environment. >> Right, one common software layer across a set of services that are embodied in converged infrastructure hardware. >> And historically, homogeneous has meant you don't get best of breed. So how do you achieve best of breed? Is that through the ecosystem? Maybe, if you could elaborate on that a little bit. >> Well I think in this case, the scale operation characteristic swamp, the individual characteristics are best of breed in that sense. And they become enabled through this layer. But that hardware, software boundary is always a point of innovation. When virtualization of VMware first emerged, Mendel had this paranoia, we would rely on no hardware. We'll make it work on anything. And then over time, the hardware got better at doing things like page table mapping, memory breakthroughs, et cetera, for virtualization. All of a sudden, it's sort of like, oh the hardware's enabling better virtualization. You took advantage of it. And the same thing will emerge as you go think about converged infrastructure for networking and storage as well. The hardware will continue to evolve to better enable this virtualization layer of software and automation above it. >> We're starting at the hook, but you know we want to go, you got multi core, high megahertz clock speed right now, with Pat, we have a couple minutes left. I have two questions, one is around the future of virtualization, we're following, on SiliconANGLE.com, some of the new advances around large data centers that have commodity gear. So obviously, the usual suspects are Google, Facebook and whatnot, having a lot of commodity machines. And low level virtual machines is a really big trend now, looking at how to deploy VMwares at a programmatic layer. I don't know if you're following that. So I want you to comment on what you're following relative to some of the new trends around VMs. Obviously down to the low level, low level virtual machines and how they're playing up the stack, and then my final question after that would be, in the next 12 months, what's on your to do list? >> Yeah, well you know, I think you know, part of our task is sort of today, the leader in virtualization, is continue to leading the trends in that sense. Continuing to reduce the overhead of virtual machines, IO stack improvements, the Flash example that we gave before is a big piece of that. And continuing to enable better app affinity. You saw the Hadoop work, you know some of the big VM work around databases as well, and saying now how does, because in many ways, databases, VMs operate on, under provision hardware, and be able to over provision, and databases are over provisioning in memory for an under provisioned resource of the database, it's almost the inverse. So how do we address that? The Serengeti Hadoop work is another example of that. So there's lots of things to continue to innovate at the virtualization layer, both as you look down toward the hardware, as well as as you look up toward the application, and I think in that sense-- >> Is that where the software kind of tie in, that's why you're not seeing software-defining networking, more stuff with defined data centers? You have some ranges there, is that the part? >> Well that's a big piece of it yeah. Right, and you wanted all that to become policy based. Because you want essentially, what Steve likes to call the virtual data center to associate the policy of the application requirements as well as with the policy mechanisms of the underlying infrastructure. So that you know, the virtualization, the networking, the security elements, all of those become embodied in that as a set of services to the VM or this virtual data center. Next 12 months, obviously job one is make the transition smooth. Job two is get plan 13 in place, as the year concludes here. And then some of the key agendas of those we already talked about, operate on the SDN. We just made 1.3 billion, I better make a good use of that. Figure out our storage and security virtualization strategies, our management stack, and some of the horizon things today are really pretty thrilling for that next generation end user experience. >> Pat Gelsinger, always a blast on theCUBE, now as officially the CEO, great to have you on. >> Well actually I'm not official yet, T-minus three days now, September 1st, so I got-- >> Three days, okay September 1st. (chuckles) >> Well congratulations on the-- >> Pat Gelsinger. >> Thank you very much. >> CUBE alumni, great guy and tech athlete for sure. This is theCUBE, SiliconANGLE.com's flagship coverage of all the events extracting the signal from the noise. We'll be right back with our next guest after this short break.

>>so erin you're a technique for a Cloudera, you're a whiz kid from Brown, you have, how many Brown people are engineers here at Cloudera >>as of monday, we have five full timers and two interns at the moment and we're trying to hire more all the time. >>Mhm. So how many interns? >>Uh two interns from Brown this this summer? A few more from other schools? Cool, >>I'm john furry with silicon angle dot com. Silicon angle dot tv. We're here in the cloud era office in my little mini studio hasn't been built out yet, It was studio, we had to break it down for a doctor, ralph kimball, not richard Kimble from uh I called him on twitter but coupon um but uh the data warehouse guru was in here um and you guys are attracting a lot of talent erin so tell us a little bit about, you know, how Claudia is making it happen and what's the big deal here, people smart here, it's mature, it's not the first time around this company, this company has some some senior execs and there's been a lot, a lot of people uh in the market who have been talking about uh you know, a lot of first time entrepreneurs doing their startups and I've been hearing for some folks in in the, in the trenches that there's been a frustration and start ups out there, that there's a lot of first time entrepreneurs and everyone wants to be the next twitter and there's some kind of companies that are straddling failure out there? And and I was having that conversation with someone just today and I said, they said, what's it like Cloudera and I said, uh, this is not the first time crew here in Cloudera. So, uh, share with the folks out there, what you're seeing for Cloudera and the management team. >>Sure. Well, one of the most attractive parts about working Cloudera for me, one of the reasons I, I really came here was have been incredibly experienced management team, Mike Charles, they've all there at the top of this Oregon, they have all done this before they founded startups, Growing startups, old startups and uh, especially in contrast with my, the place where I worked previously. Uh, the amount of experience here is just tremendous. You see them not making mistakes where I'm sure others would. >>And I mean, Mike Olson is veteran. I mean he's been, he's an adviser to start ups. I know he's been in some investors. Amer was obviously PhD candidates bolted out the startup, sold it to yahoo, worked at, yahoo, came back finish his PhD at stanford under Mendel over there in the PhD program over this, we banged in a speech. He came back entrepreneur residents, Excel partners. Now it does Cloudera. Um, when did you join the company and just take us through who you are and when you join Cloudera, I want your background. >>Sure. So I, I joined a little over a year ago is about 30 people at the time. Uh, I came from a small start up of the music online music store in new york city um uh, which doesn't really exist all that much anymore. Um but you know, I I sort of followed my other colleagues from Brown who worked here um was really sold by the management team and also by the tremendous market opportunity that that Hadoop has right now. Uh Cloudera was very much the first commercial player there um which is really a unique experience and I think you've covered this pretty well before. I think we all around here believe that uh the markets only growing. Um and we're going to see the market and the big data market in general get bigger and bigger in the next few years. >>So, so obviously computer science is all the rage and and I'm particularly proud of hangout, we've had conversations in the hallway while you're tweeting about this and that. Um, but you know, silicon angles home is here, we've had, I've had a chance to watch you and the other guys here grow from, you know, from your other office was a san mateo or san Bruno somewhere in there. Like >>uh it was originally in burlingame, then we relocate the headquarters Palo Alto and now we have a satellite up in san Francisco. >>So you guys bolted out. You know, you have a full on blow in san Francisco office. So um there was a big busting at the seams here in Palo Alto people commuting down uh even building their burning man. Uh >>Oh yeah sure >>skits here and they're constructing their their homes here, but burning man, so we're doing that in san Francisco, what's the vibe like in san Francisco, tell us what's going on >>in san Francisco, san Francisco is great. It's, I'm I live in san Francisco as do a lot of us. About half the engineering team works up there now. Um you know we're running out of space there certainly. Um and you're already, oh yeah, oh yeah, we're hiring as fast as we absolutely can. Um so definitely not space to build the burning man huts there like like there is down, down in Palo Alto but it's great up there. >>What are you working on right now for project insurance? The computer science is one of the hot topics we've been covering on silicon angle, taking more of a social angle, social media has uh you know, moves from this pr kind of, you know, check in facebook fan page to hype to kind of a real deal social marketplace where you know data, social data, gestural data, mobile data geo data data is the center of the value proposition. So you live that every day. So talk about your view on the computer science landscape around data and why it's such a big deal. >>Oh sure. Uh I think data is sort of one of those uh fundamental uh things that can be uh mind for value across every industry, there's there's no industry out there that can't benefit from better understanding what their customers are doing, what their competitors are doing etcetera. And that's sort of the the unique value proposition of, you know, stuff like Hadoop. Um truly we we see interest from every sector that exists, which is great as for what the project that I'm specifically working on right now, I primarily work on H. D. F. S, which is the Hadoop distributed file system underlies pretty much all the other um projects in the Hadoop ecosystem. Uh and I'm particularly working with uh other colleagues at Cloudera and at other companies, yahoo and facebook on high availability for H. D. F. S, which has been um in some deployments is a serious concern. Hadoop is primarily a batch processing system, so it's less of a concern than in others. Um but when you start talking about running H base, which needs to be up all the time serving live traffic than having highly available H DFS is uh necessity and we're looking forward to delivering that >>talk about the criticism that H. D. F. S has been having. Um Well, I wouldn't say criticism. I mean, it's been a great, great product that produced the HDs, a core parts of how do you guys been contributing to the standard of Apache, that's no secret to the folks out there, that cloud area leads that effort. Um but there's new companies out there kind of trying a new approach and they're saying they're doing it better, what are they saying in terms and what's really happening? So, you know, there's some argument like, oh, we can do it better. And what's the what, why are they doing it, that was just to make money do a new venture, or is that, what's your opinion on that? Yeah, >>sure. I mean, I think it's natural to to want to go after uh parts of the core Hadoop system and say, you know, Hadoop is a great ecosystem, but what if we just swapped out this part or swapped out that part, couldn't couldn't we get some some really easy gains. Um and you know, sometimes that will be true. I have confidence that that that just will not simply not be true in in the very near future. One of the great benefits about Apache, Hadoop being open source is that we have a huge worldwide network of developers working at some of the best engineering organizations in the world who are all collaborating on this stuff. Um and, you know, I firmly believe that the collaborative open source process produces the best software and that's that's what Hadoop is at its very core. >>What about the arguments are saying that, oh, I need to commercialize it differently for my installed base bolt on a little proprietary extensions? Um That's legitimate argument. TMC might take that approach or um you know, map are I was trying to trying to rewrite uh H. T. F. >>S. To me, is >>it legitimate? I mean is there fighting going on in the standards? Maybe that's a political question you might want to answer. But give me a shot. >>I mean the Hadoop uh isn't there's no open standard for Hadoop. You can't say like this is uh this is like do compatible or anything like that. But you know what you can say is like this is Apache Hadoop. Uh And so in that sense there's no there's no fighting to be had there. Um Yeah, >>so yeah. Who um struggling as a company. But you know, there's a strong head Duke D. N. A. At yahoo, certainly, I talked with the the founder of the startup. Horton works just announced today that they have a new board member. He's the guy who's the Ceo of Horton works and now on bluster, I'm sorry, cluster announced they have um rob from benchmark on the board. Uh He's the Ceo of Horton works and and one of my not criticisms but points about Horton was this guy's an engineer, never run a company before. He's no Mike Olson. Okay, so you know, Michaelson has a long experience. So this guy comes into running and he's obviously in in open source, is that good for Yahoo and open sources. He they say they're going to continue to invest in Hadoop? They clearly are are still using a lot of Hadoop certainly. Um how is that changing Apache, is that causing more um consolidation, is that causing more energy? What's your view on the whole Horton works? Think >>um you know, yahoo is uh has been and will continue to be a huge contributor. Hadoop, they uh I can't say for sure, but I feel pretty confident that they have more data under management under Hadoop than anyone else in the world and there's no question in my mind that they'll continue to invest huge amounts of both key way effort and engineering effort and uh all of the things that Hadoop needs to to advance. Um I'm sure that Horton works will continue to work very closely with with yahoo. Um And you know, we're excited to see um more and more contributors to to Hadoop um both from Horton works and from yahoo proper. >>Cool, Well, I just want to clarify for the folks out there who don't understand what this whole yahoo thing is, It was not a spin out, these were key Hadoop core guys who left the company to form a startup of which yahoo financed with benchmark capital. So, yahoo is clearly and told me and reaffirm that with me that they are clearly investing more in Hadoop internally as well. So there's more people inside, yahoo that work on Hadoop than they are in the entire Horton's work company. So that's very clear. So just to clear that up out there. Um erin. so you're you're a young gun, right? You're a young whiz like Todd madam on here, explain to the folks out there um a little bit older maybe guys in their thirties or C IOS a lot of people are doing, you know, they're kicking the tires on big data, they're hearing about real time analytics, they're hearing about benefits have never heard before. Uh Dave a lot and I on the cube talk about, you know, the transformations that are going on, you're seeing AMC getting into big data, everyone's transforming at the enterprise level and service provider. What explains the folks why Hadoop is so important. Why is that? Do if not the fastest or one of the fastest growing projects in Apache ever? Sure. Even faster than the web server project, which is one of the better, >>better bigger ones. >>Why is the dupes and explain to them what it is? Well, you know, >>it's been it's pretty well covered that there's been an explosion of data that more data is produced every every year over and over. We talk about exabytes which is a quantity of data that is so large that pretty much no one can really theoretically comprehend it. Um and more and more uh organizations want to store and process and learn from, you know, get insights from that data um in addition to just the explosion of data um you know that there is simply more data, organizations are less willing to discard data. One of the beauties of Hadoop is truly that it's so very inexpensive per terabyte to store data that you don't have to think up front about what you want to store, what you want to discard, store it all and figure out later what is the most useful bits we call that sort of schema on read. Um as opposed to, you know, figuring out the schema a priority. Um and that is a very powerful shift in dynamics of data storage in general. And I think that's very attractive to all sorts of organizations. >>Your, I'll see a Brown graduate and you have some interns from Brown to Brown um, Premier computer science program almost as good as when I went to school at Northeastern University. >>Um >>you know, the unsung heroes of computer science only kidding Brown's great program, but you know, cutting edge computer science areas known as obviously leading in a lot of the computer science areas do in general is known that you gotta be pretty savvy to be either masters level PhD to kind of play in this area? Not a lot of adoption, what I call the grassroots developers. What's your vision and how do you see the computer science, younger generation, even younger than you kind of growing up into this because those tools aren't yet developed. You still got to be, you're pretty strong from a computer science perspective and also explained to the folks who aren't necessarily at the browns of the world or getting into computer science, what about, what is that this revolution about and where is it going? What are some of the things you see happening around the corner that that might not be obvious. >>Sure there's a few questions there. Um part of it is how do people coming out of college get into this thing, It's not uh taught all that much in school, How do how do you sort of make the leap from uh the standard computer science curriculum into this sort of thing? And um you know, part of it is that really we're seeing more and more schools offering distributed computing classes or they have grids available um to to do this stuff there there is some research coming out of Brown actually and lots of other schools about Hadoop proper in the behavior of Hadoop under failure scenarios, that sort of stuff, which is very interesting. Google uh actually has classes that they teach, I believe in conjunction with the University of Washington um where they teach undergraduates and your master's level, graduate students about mass produced and distributed computing and they actually use Hadoop to do it because it is the architecture of Hadoop is modeled after um >>uh >>google's internal infrastructure. Um So you know that that's that's one way we're seeing more and more people who are just coming out of college who have distributed systems uh knowledge like this? Um Another question? the other part of the question you asked is how does um how does the ordinary developer get into this stuff? And the answer is we're working hard, you know, we and others in the hindu community are working hard on making it, making her do just much easier to consume. We released, you cover this fair bit, the ECM Express project that lets you install Hadoop with just minimal effort as close to 11 click as possible. Um and there's lots of um sort of layers built on top of Hadoop to make it more easily consumed by developers Hive uh sort of sequel like interface on top of mass produce. And Pig has its own DSL for programming against mass produce. Um so you don't have to write heart, you don't have to write straight map produced code, anything like that. Uh and it's getting easier for operators every day. >>Well, I mean, evolution was, I mean, you guys actually working on that cloud era. Um what about what about some of the abstractions? You're seeing those big the Rage is, you know, look back a year ago VM World coming up and uh little plugs looking angle dot tv will be broadcasting live and at VM World. Um you know, he has been on the Q XV m where um Spring Source was a big announcement that they made. Um, Haruka brought by Salesforce Cloud Software frameworks are big, what does that look like and how does it relate to do and the ecosystem around Hadoop where, you know, the rage is the software frameworks and networks kind of collide and you got the you got the kind of the intersection of, you know, software frameworks and networks obviously, you know, in the big players, we talk about E M C. And these guys, it's clear that they realize that software is going to be their key differentiator. So it's got to get to a framework stand, what is Hadoop and Apache talking about this kind of uh, evolution for for Hadoop. >>Sure. Well, you know, I think we're seeing very much the commoditization of hardware. Um, you just can't buy bigger and bigger computers anymore. They just don't exist. So you're going to need something that can take a lot of little computers and make it look like one big computer. And that's what Hadoop is especially good at. Um we talk about scaling out instead of scaling up, you can just buy more relatively inexpensive computers. Uh and that's great. And sort of the beauty of Hadoop, um, is that it will grow linearly as your data set as your um, your your scale, your traffic, whatever grows. Um and you don't have to have this exponential price increase of buying bigger and bigger computers, You can just buy more. Um and that that's sort of the beauty of it is a software framework that if you write against it. Um you don't have to think about the scaling anymore. It will do that for you. >>Okay. The question for you, it's gonna kind of a weird question but try to tackle it. You're at a party having a few cocktails, having a few beers with your buddies and your buddies who works at a big enterprise says man we've got all this legacy structured data systems, I need to implement some big data strategy, all this stuff. What do I do? >>Sure, sure. Um Not the question I thought you were going to ask me that you >>were a g rated program here. >>Okay. I thought you were gonna ask me, how do I explain what I do to you know people that we'll get to that next. Okay. Um Yeah, I mean I would say that the first thing to do is to implement a start, start small, implement a proof of concept, get a subset of the data that you would like to analyze, put it, put Hadoop on a few machines, four or five, something like that and start writing some hive queries, start writing some some pig scripts and I think you'll you know pretty quickly and easily see the value that you can get out of it and you can do so with the knowledge that when you do want to operate over your entire data set, you will absolutely be able to trivially scale to that size. >>Okay. So now the question that I want to ask is that you're at a party and I want to say, what do you >>do? You usually tell people in my hedge fund manager? No but seriously um I I tell people I work on distributed supercomputers. Software for distributed supercomputers and that people have some idea what distributed means and supercomputers and they figure that out. >>So final question for I know you gotta go get back to programming uh some code here. Um what's the future of Hadoop in the sense of from a developer standpoint? I was having a conversation with a developer who's a big data jockey and talking about Miss kelly gets anything and get his hands on G. O. Data, text data because the data data junkie and he says I just don't know what to build. Um What are some of the enabling apps that you may see out there and or you have just conceiving just brainstorming out there, what's possible with with data, can you envision the next five years, what are you gonna see evolve and what some of the coolest things you've seen that might that are happening right now. >>Sure. Sure. I mean I think you're going to see uh just the front ends to these things getting just easier and easier and easier to interact with and at some point you won't even know that you're interacting with a Hadoop cluster that will be the engine underneath the hood but you know, you'll you'll be uh from your perspective you'll be driving a Ferrari and by that I mean you know, standard B. I tool, standard sequel query language. Um we'll all be implemented on top of this stuff and you know from that perspective you could implement, you know, really anything you want. Um We're seeing a lot of great work coming out of just identifying trends amongst masses of data that you know, if you tried to analyze it with any other tool, you'd either have to distill it down so far that you would you would question your results or that you could only run the very simplest sort of queries over um and not really get those like powerful deep insights, those sort of correlative insights um that we're seeing people do. So I think you'll see, you'll continue to see uh great recommendations systems coming out of this stuff. You'll see um root cause analysis, you'll see great work coming out of the advertising industry um to you know to really say which ad was responsible for this purchase. Was it really the last ad they clicked on or was it the ad they saw five weeks ago they put the thought in mind that sort of correlative analysis is being empowered by big data systems like a dupe. >>Well I'm bullish on big data, I think people I think it's gonna be even bigger than I think you're gonna have some kids come out of college and say I could use big data to create a differentiation and build an airline based on one differentiation. These are cool new ways and, and uh, data we've never seen before. So Aaron, uh, thanks for coming >>on the issue >>um, your inside Palo Alto Studio and we're going to.