(bright music) >> Hey, welcome to this "CUBE Conversation." I'm your host, Lisa Martin. I've got two guests from NETSCOUT here with me today. Eileen Haggerty joins us, the AVP of Product and Solutions Marketing and Jason Chaffee, Senior Product Manager. We're going to be talking about the importance of quality end user experience with UC&C, Unified Communications and Collaborations services for something that will be near and dear to all of our hearts, employee productivity. Eileen, let's go ahead and start with you and the impact of COVID on UC&C, what has it been? >> Oh, Lisa, great question, because we really have seen an evolution in the importance and reliance on UCC. COVID would not have allowed us to go to work, do business continuity, any of those things had it not been for strong communications platforms to help us do that. And in fact, really the hero of all of this has been what's called Unified Communications as a Service or UCaaS. Enterprise businesses really depended entirely on the communications between the home office and the employees remotely. This is also known to be the way we all went to work. It was no longer a car. We picked up the phone basically or the computer. So Zoom, WebEx, Teams, Google Meets, they've all become household names really over the last two years. That's kind of exciting for them. And businesses during that period of time expanded their tools to keep business running and employees in communication using these very platforms, and we'll refer to this a couple of times during this conversation too, Lisa. We did a survey at the end of 2021, IT leaders, about their use of UCaaS and UCC during this period of time. We found that almost of them had used collaboration tools, and in fact, added to their arsenal of tools during this period of time to such an extent that they're now ranging, the majority of them, between three and nine different platforms that their corporate employees use. This became unwieldy, of course, during that time, and so their strategy going forward is going to be to reduce some of that number, but pretty interesting details. >> Yeah, between three and nine is a lot, and certainly, UC&C became a lifeline for all of us, professionally and personally. Even my mom learned how to use Zoom during this time. I was pretty proud of helping her with that. But, Jason, talk to us about all these new communication services. We're completely dependent on them, but overall what have you found out in terms of how they worked out? >> Well, to be honest with you, I think from the IT organization, it's been a challenge. It's been difficult. I think every IT organization is really motivated to ensure the quality of the services throughout the whole company, but as you can imagine, the increase of these communications Eileen just talked about during the pandemic is just significantly increasing the number of IT help desk tickets that have come through. And in that survey that Eileen just talked about, in fact, a third of those that responded said that 50 to 75% of their help desk tickets right now are related to UC&C or UCaaS services, and in fact, they say that over half of them have said that they get those tickets at least once a day, if not multiple times a day. And I think another big aspect of this that's been a challenge is everybody working from home now and the whole hybrid environment, and IT teams are really trying to understand and make sure that they get the same delivery of services if they were in the corporate headquarters, and I think they felt a loss of control and visibility in the services that are being delivered. I think the other thing that came out of this survey was about 25% of those said that they could get these issues if and when they happen, resolved in just a matter of minutes, but most said that it can take hours or even days to get through those, and that's obviously a really bad look for the company and really hinders productivity. So overall, I'd say it's been a challenge. I think as this onslaught of services that have come through and hampered and that everyone's trying to manage and get through, along with the lack of visibility when everybody's working from home. Of course, it's been fantastic for those of us that are working from home and made everything easier, but I think it's just made it that much more difficult for the IT teams that are trying to manage this new environment. >> Right, definitely difficulty behind the scenes there. You talked about the 25% of IT organizations being able to resolve quickly, but that leaves 75% of organizations where it takes more than a few minutes, and I can imagine individually, that might not be a big impact, but, Eileen, overall if it's taking more than a few minutes to resolve UC&C IT help desk issues, what's the overall impact to a business? >> It can be significant, and we hear a lot of little stories sadly sometimes on Lester Holt's evening news, but really what you are looking at here are longer periods of time where employees can't talk to each other. We've got email. We can probably compensate a different manner, but when it happens to be your customers not being able to talk to customer service reps in the contact center, couple of hours, that can be a big issue. Partners and suppliers who might be trying to get you important information very quickly. Maybe it's a supply chain issue item that they want to alert you to that you need to act on. That's a long period of time. And I think it's kind of important here to call out one special group, and that would be corporate executives. I think we've all heard about these big town hall meetings that corporate executives may be holding with employees or investors and all of a sudden their UCaaS support freezes, or it doesn't connect the voice in the video, and all of a sudden, you've got a very embarrassing situation. It really gets the attention of the public. Losing communication for a couple of hours, bottom line, it is going to impact productivity, customer service, and it could impact reputation, especially with those social media influencers that we all both favor and fear. So, when we were talking about our survey results, that is actually a top concern of IT executives, that productivity will get hit if communications problems do exist. So I think really ultimately for all of us in the business, disruptions and communication, it's going to be bad for business, any length. >> It is bad for business at any length, and that's a huge risk for businesses in any industry. I've been on those executive town halls where video wouldn't connect, and you just think, as much as we wanted that human connection during this time, and you couldn't get it, it made the the interaction not as ideal and obviously a risk for the organization. So, Jason, how can IT then jump in and resolve these disruptions faster, because time is of the essence here? >> Well, yeah, exactly. As we've discussed and Eileen just talked about, I think resolving issues quickly is really the key. I think we all know issues are going to happen, they just will, but it's really the IT team that can solve those the fastest is the team that's going to win, and so I think that's really the key to all of that. And one of the things that comes out of that is, again, from this survey is that only about 54% of the respondents said that they felt confident that they could understand root cause and be able to get to those issues quickly, which leaves about 43%, almost as many, that said they were less than confident or somewhat confident in finding that root cause, and so I think that's really the key there is really having the confidence to be able to find that, and to get that confidence, you need to be able to understand root cause quickly. And in order to get that, I think you need a combination of two things, which is passive, packet-based monitoring as well as continuous active testing or monitoring of those solutions. So, what I mean by that is being able to automatically and continuously test these services, even if nobody's on the system and nobody's on trying to make a phone call. So you have somebody who's trying to host, an active agent that's trying to host a meeting and others that are trying to join the meeting and sending an audio and sending and receiving video and looking at the measurements and trying to take all of that data in to really proactively understand what's going on and doing this every 15 minutes or every once an hour to really, again, get ahead of things before they become a problem. But I think beyond that, it's really about being able to take that data and the packets from those transactions that you were just testing and be able to trend that data and define problems and diagnose issues proactively. Again, as Eileen just said, before the CEO gets on there and tries to make his town hall call, so that that's really important to be able to solve those things more quickly. I think it's really a combination of a passive, scalable monitoring solution along with scheduled automatic testing of those, and along with the packets that go with that, that's really a combination of both. It's kind of a best of both worlds in order to get those things solved quickly. >> To get them solved quickly, I want to go back to something that Eileen said. You mentioned the word 'confidence,' and that I think it's important to point out that you're not saying that trivially, that IT needs to have the confidence that it has the right solutions in place to discover these faster. Eileen, from your perspective, talk to me about what that confidence means to IT and how it can shift up the stack to the C-suite. >> You know, honestly, processes and policies in these organizations are critical. They need to be able to notice when the trouble ticket comes in, and there's a lot of 'em, let's face it, and they're coming from all kinds of locations. Now, it's some of the remote offices. Some of 'em are still people at home. You've got to be able to know where to turn, what screen to use, what tool to adjust, what workflow to process, and that does come with practice, but it also comes with a solid set of tools and visibility strategies, and then you follow that process through, you work together. Maybe the voice, people in the network, people have to work together, maybe the cloud people, 'cause it's a contract with UCaaS, work together, gather the evidence and pinpoint the solution that's going to fix the problem with those locations. And it is, it becomes then a confidence builder, proof points. >> Right, proof points are critical. So, the solution that you both talked about, Jason, you elaborated on this, I'd love to get some real world examples. Tell me how you've seen this in practice. Jason, we'll start with you and then, Eileen, we'll go to you. >> Okay, yeah, great, I was just thinking of one that we had that really was one of the largest insurance companies in the country, if not the world, and when the pandemic hit, they suddenly had to send everybody home, and this is the lifeblood of their company, the contact centers that are answering these calls and the ones that were processing these claims. And as everybody went home, their strategy really was to actually go buy new laptops for everyone and implement VPNs that had a little bit of, but not fully and then implement SD-WAN, and so they had all of this traffic going over VPNs and through SD-WANs and new UCaaS solutions and all of this and what they quickly learned and found out was they just didn't have the visibility to be able to fuel, again, that word confidence that they were serving their their customers very well. So, they actually implemented one of our solutions and put these agents out at all their different desktops and started watching and doing these proactive calls and making going through the meeting life cycle and actually testing the bandwidths of their SD-WAN and ensuring all of those services. And what they found was they were able to solve some of the solutions that are even harder to solve normally, because it was affecting some users, but not all of them, and that's often harder to try and get their arms around. And so as they continued to do this, and just got their arms more around it and got more visibility, they really feel like everything's under control. And as of now, they're actually planning on leaving all those users working from home now, because they can actually ensure the same type of experience for both the users and for their customers as if those people were working from their corporate headquarters. >> Jason, that sort of sounds like a bit of a COVID silver lining. >> (laughs) Yeah, I think so. I think a lot of us actually started working from home and so there was kind of the silver lining of flexibility for the employee, but for the customer and the company itself, they learned this new visibility and this new way to ensure that across everywhere, wherever they may be, and I don't know that that would've come out without the COVID silver lining, as you just said. So I think it was something that really came out of it that might've been a good thing. >> And there are a few of those, which is nice. Eileen, talk to me about some of the experiences that you've had. What have you seen out in the field? >> Yeah, we have one really terrific energy company that was talking with us the other day, and their employees use Microsoft Office 365 which has the teams collaboration and communications system with it. And, what they've been doing for those at-home employees was configuring tests on their works stations, much like Jason explained, but it mimics exactly how an employee might be making their call and joining the sessions from video to audio, to going through login and log out. What's interesting is, and this is a compelling differentiator, a lot of tools may just watch traffic as it's happening, and certainly that's a value, but these tests even run when our agents are asleep. And what that does is these are all 24 hour a day businesses, and so maybe they have followed-the-sun contact centers or whatnot and something's happening in one part of the world, but then it's rolling to others, and we have all heard those disaster stories online when we wake up and we're hearing it on the morning news. So, if an organization can find the problem and detect it early enough and then get it when it's a few people that are involved, they can actually resolve it with our tools, find the root cause, implement a corrective action before the majority of their agents are even logging in in the morning. Nobody even knew that there was a problem overnight, because they were able to get to it and resolve it faster, and when you can do that, you're being proactive. And this, again, builds on the confidence that you get doing this kind of activity over and over and over again. But at the same time, it's also enormously beneficial from a business productivity perspective for the employees and certainly reputationally in revenue-based customer service, making sure that things are available whenever they're necessary. So, making sure they can perform their jobs, I know it sounds trite, but it's really the most critical thing we can help 'em with. >> Absolutely, 'cause I think, Eileen, one of the things that I've always thought for years is that employee productivity and employee satisfaction is directly tied to customer satisfaction, customer delight, and as you talked about, there's plenty of social media influencers who are happy to share news, good or bad, so that employee productivity is a direct relation on the customer satisfaction, the brand reputation. Jason, what are your thoughts there? >> Well, I think that's exactly right. I think it's, again, being able to continuously have your arms around that and make sure, because if you can't make phone calls or customers can't call in or things aren't working then it is, it's really a revenue impact, but it's also reputation impact, and you're going to remember that company that just didn't have their act together if you will, so I think it's important to, again, invest in this and make sure that no matter what, wherever your end users are or wherever your employees are, you're providing that experience just as if they were in the corporate office, and even when they're in the corporate office, being able to, as Eileen talked about, know ahead of time and proactively when issues happen in these very complex UCaaS and UC&C solutions that are out there now. >> And last question, Eileen for you, I imagine that these solutions are horizontal across every industry, every type of business, every size of business? >> Yeah, it's one of those phenomenon that's really critical is the ability to be ubiquitous in any environment, not being vendor-specific or dependent because now look at it, we shot that stat, three to nine different platforms in one company. If you had to buy three or nine different platforms to resolve problems, that reduces your ability to build workflows, consistent ones and know what you're doing every single time. You'd have to learn nine different platforms. That's not productive and that's certainly not realistic. So yeah, I think that this is really key. You have to be able to look at all of the traffic and be able to resolve the problems, regardless of what they happen to be running on. >> And the great thing is hearing the tools and the capabilities and solutions that NETSCOUT has to help businesses in any industry, at any size be able to identify these issues, resolve them faster and then create some silver linings. Guys, thank you so much for joining me today. Always a pleasure talking to you. This was really interesting to talk about the importance of quality end user experience with communication services for the employee productivity and of course, ultimately consumer customer satisfaction. We appreciate your insights. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> For Eileen Haggerty and Jason Chaffee, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching a "CUBE Conversation." (bright music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE, covering Fortinet Security Summit brought to you by Fortinet. >> Welcome to theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin. We are live at the Fortinet Championship, the PGA Tour Kickoff to the 2021-2022 FedEx Regular Season Cup. And this is so exciting to be here with Fortinet, to be at an in-person event, and to be talking about a very important topic of cybersecurity. One of our alumni is back with me, Sandra Wheatley is here, the SVP of Marketing, Threat Intelligence, and Influencer Communications at Fortinet. Sandra, it's great to see you. >> You too, Lisa. Thank you for having me. >> This is a great event. >> Yeah, it's awesome, yeah. >> Great to be outdoors, great to see people again, and great for Fortinet for being one of the first to come back to in-person events. One of the things I would love to understand is here we are at the PGA tour, what's the relationship with Fortinet and the PGA Tour? >> Well, first of all, I think the PGA tour is an amazing brand. You just have to look around here and it's extremely exciting, but beyond the brand, there's a lot of synergies between the PGA tour and Fortinet CSR initiatives, particularly around STEM, diversity inclusion, as well as veterans rescaling. And so some of the proceeds from the Fortinet Championship will go to benefit local nonprofits and the local community. So that's something we're very excited about overall. >> Lisa: Is this a new partnership? >> It is a new partnership and we will be the Fortinet Championship sponsor for about the next five years. So we're looking forward to developing this partnership and this relationship, and benefiting a lot of nonprofits in the future. >> Excellent, that's a great cause. One of the things, when you and I last saw each other by Zoom earlier in the summer, we were talking about the cybersecurity skills gap. And it's in its fifth consecutive year, and you had said some good news on the front was that data show that instead of needing four million professionals to fill that gap, it's down to three, and now there's even better news coming from Fortinet. Talk to me about the pledge that you just announced to train one million people in the next five years. >> Absolutely, we're very excited about this. You know, Fortinet has been focused on reducing the skills gap for many years now. It continues to be one of the biggest issues for cybersecurity leaders if you think about it. You know, we still need about 3.1 million professionals to come into the industry. We have made progress, but the need is growing at about 400,000 a year. So it's something that public and private partnerships need to tackle. So last week we did announce that we are committed to training a million professionals over the next five years. We're very excited about that. We're tackling this problem in many, many ways. And this really helps our customers and our partners. If you really think about it, in addition to the lack of skills, they're really tackling cybersecurity surface that's constantly changing. In our most recent FortiGuard's threat report, we saw that ransomware alone went up 10 times over the last year. So it's something that we all have to focus on going forward. And this is our way of helping the industry overall. >> It's a huge opportunity. I had the opportunity several times to speak with Derek Manky and John Maddison over the summer, and just looking at what happened in the first half, the threat landscape, we spoke last year, looking at the second half, and ransomware as a service, the amount of money that's involved in that. The fact that we are in this, as Fortinet says, this work from anywhere environment, which is probably going to be somewhat persistent with the attack surface expanding, devices on corporate networks out of the home, there's a huge opportunity for people to get educated, trained, and have a great job in cybersecurity. >> Absolutely, I like to say there's no job security like cybersecurity, and it is. I mean, I've only been in this industry about, I'm coming up on six years, and it's definitely the most dynamic industry of all of the IT areas that I've worked in. The opportunities are endless, which is why it's a little bit frustrating to see this big gap in skills, particularly around the area of women and minorities. Women make up about 20%, and minorities are even less, maybe about 3%. And so this is a huge focus of ours. And so through our Training Advancement Agenda, our TAA initiative, we have several different pillars to attack this problem. And at the core of that is our Network Security Expert Training or NSC training and certification program. We made that freely available to everybody at the beginning of COVID. It was so successful, at one point we we're seeing someone register every five minutes. And that was so successful, we extended that indefinitely. And so to date, we've had about almost 700,000 certifications. So it's just an amazing program. The other pillars are Security Academy Program, where we partner with nonprofits and academia to train young students. And we have something like 419 academies in 88 countries. >> Lisa: Wow. >> And then the other area that's very important to us is our Veterans Program. You know, we have about 250,000 veterans every year, transfer out of the service, looking for other jobs in the private sector. And so not only do we provide our training free, but we do resume building, mentoring, all of these types of initiatives. And we've trained about 2,000 veterans and spouses, and about 350 of those have successfully got jobs. So that's something we'll continue to focus on. >> That's such a great effort. As the daughter of a Vietnam combat veteran, that really just hits me right in the heart. But it's something that you guys have been dedicated for. This isn't something new, this isn't something that is coming out of a result of the recent executive order from the Biden administration. Fortinet has been focused on training and helping to close that gap for a while. >> That's exactly true. While we made the commitment to train a million people on the heels of the Biden administration at Cybersecurity Summit about two weeks ago, we have been focused on this for many years. And actually, a lot of the global companies that were part of that summit happened to be partners on this initiative with us. For example, we work with the World Economic Forum, IBM, and Salesforce offer our NSC training on their training platforms. And this is an area that we think it's really important and we'll continue to partner with larger organizations over time. We're also working with a lot of universities, both in the Bay Area, local like Berkeley, and Stanford and others to train more people. So it's definitely a big commitment for us and has been for many years. >> It'll be exciting to see over the next few years, the results of this program, which I'm sure will be successful. Talk to me a little bit about this event here. Fortinet is 100% partner driven company, more than 300 or so partners and customers here. Tell me a little bit about what some of the interesting topics are that are going to be discussed today. >> Sure, yeah, so we're delighted to bring our partners and customers together. They will be discussing some of the latest innovations in cybersecurity, as well as some of the challenges and opportunities. We are seeing, you know, during COVID we saw a lot of change with regards to cybersecurity, especially with remote working. So we'll discuss our partnership with LYNX that we just announced. We'll also be talking about some of the emerging technologies like CTNA, 5G, SASE, cloud, and really understanding how we can best help protect our customers and our partners. So it's very exciting. In addition to our Technology Summit, we have a technology exhibition here with many of our big sponsors and partners. So it's definitely going to be a lot of dynamic conversation over the next few days. >> We've seen so much change in the last year and a half. That's just an understatement. But one of the things that you touched on this a minute ago, and we're all feeling this is is when we all had to shift to work from home. And here we are using corporate devices on home networks. We're using more devices, the edge is expanding, and that became a huge security challenge for enterprises to figure out how do we secure this. Because for some percentage, and I think John Maddison mentioned a few months ago to me, at least 25% will probably stay remote. Enterprises have to figure out how to keep their data secure as people are often the weakest link. Tell me about what you guys announced with LYNX that will help facilitate that. >> Well, we're announcing an enterprise grade security offering for people who are working remotely. And the nice thing about this offering is it's very easy to set up and implement, so consumers and others can easily set this up. It also provides a dashboard for the enterprise, IT organization to, they can see who's on the network, devices, everything else. So this should really help because we did see a big increase in attacks, really targeting remote workers. As cyber criminals try to use their home as a foothold into the enterprise. So we're very excited about this partnership, and definitely see big demand for this going forward. >> Well, can you tell me about the go-to market for that and where can enterprises and people get it? >> Well, we're still working through that. I know you'll talk with John later on, he'll have more details on that. But definitely, we'll be targeting both of our different sets of customers and the channel for this. And I definitely think this is something that will, it's something that enterprises are definitely looking for, and there'll be more to come on this over the next few months. >> It's so needed. The threat landscape just exploded last year, and it's in a- >> Sandra: Yeah, absolutely. >> Suddenly your home. Maybe your kids are home, your spouse is working, you're distracted, ransomware, phishing emails, so legitimate. >> Sandra: They do. >> Lisa: But the need for what you're doing with LYNX is absolutely essential these days. >> Sandra: Yeah, these threats are so sophisticated. They're really difficult. And the other thing we did in addition to LYNX was as we got into COVID, we saw that, or the most successful organizations were really using this as an opportunity to invest for the longterm in cybersecurity. We also saw that, and this continues to be the case that, the insider threat continues to be one of the biggest challenges, where an employee will accidentally hit on a phishing email. So we did roll out an infosec awareness training, and we made that free for all of our customers and partners. So we're trying to do everything we can to really help our customers through this demanding time. >> Lisa: Right, what are some of the feedback that you're hearing from customers? I'm sure they're very appreciative of the education, the training, the focus effort from Fortinet. >> Sandra: Absolutely, it's definitely huge. And more and more we're seeing partners who want to work with us and collaborate with us on these initiatives. We've had a really positive response from some of the companies that I mentioned earlier, some of the big global names. And we're very excited about that. So we feel like we have some key initiatives on pillars, and we'll continue to expand on those and bring more partners to work with us over time. >> Lisa: Expansion as the business is growing amazingly well. Tell me a little bit about that. >> Sandra: Yeah, I think, in our last quarter we announced our largest billings growth for many, many years. And so, Fortinet, we're been very fortunate over the last few years, has continued to grow faster than the market. We now have half a million customers, and I think our platform approach to security is really being adopted heavily. And we continue to see a lot of momentum, especially around our solutions like SD-WAN. I think we're the only vendor who provides security in SD-WAN appliance. And so that's been a key differentiator for us. The other thing that's increasingly important, especially with the rollout of 5G is performance. And, you know, Fortinet, from the very beginning, created its own customized ASX or SPU, which really provides the best performance in security compute ratings in the industry. So all of this is really helping us with our growth, and we're very excited about the opportunities ahead. >> Lisa: And last question, on that front, what are some of the things that you're excited about as we wrap up 2021 calendar year and go into 2022? >> Sandra: Well, this been very exciting year for Fortinet. And I think we're in a great position to take advantage of many of the different growth areas we're seeing in this new and changing space. And, you know, we're all on board and ready to take advantage of those opportunities, and really fire ahead. >> Lisa: Fire ahead, I like that. Sandra, thank you so much for joining me today, talking about the commitment, the long standing commitment that Fortinet has to training everybody from all ages, academia, veterans, to help close that cybersecurity skills gap. And such an interesting time that we've had. There's so much opportunity, and it's great to see how committed you are to helping provide those opportunities to people of all ages, races, you name it. >> Sandra: Thank you, Lisa, I really appreciate it. >> Lisa: Ah, likewise. For Sandra Wheatley, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCube at the Fortinet Championship Security Summit. (soft bright music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey everyone, I'm John Furrier with The Cube, we're here in Palo Alto, California for a remote interview and session for The Cube presents AWS startup showcase, the next big thing in AI security in life sciences. I'm John Furrier. We're here with a great segment on cloud. Next big thing in Cloud with Chaos Search, Thomas Hazel, Chief Technology and Science Officer of Chaos Search joined by Jeremy Foran, the head of data analytics, the bad boy of data analyst as they say, but BAI communications, Jeremy Thomas, great to have you on. >> Great to be here. >> Pleasure to be here. >> So we're going to be talking about applying large scale log analytics to building the future of the transit industry. Obviously Telco's a big part of that, smart cities, you name the use case self-driving trucks, cars, you name it, everything's now edge. That the edge is super valuable, it's a new kind of last mile if you will, it's moving fast, it's mobile. This is a huge deal. Let's get into it, Thomas. What's this big story around this, this session? >> Well, we provide unique ability to take all that edge data and drive it into a data lake offering that we provide data analytics, both in logs, BI and coming out with ML there this year into next. So our unique play is transforming customers' cloud outer storage into an analytical platform. And really, I think with BIA is a log analytics specifically where, you know there's a lot of data streams from all those devices going into a lake that we transform their lake into analytics for driving, I guess, operational analysis. >> You know, Jeremy, I remember back in the day, I'm old enough to remember when the edge was the remote switch or campus hub or something. And then even on the Telco side, there was no wifi back in 2000 and you know, someone was driving in a car and you got any signal, you're lucky. Now you got, you know, no perimeter you have unlimited connectivity everywhere. This has opened up more of an Omni channel data problem. How do you see that world? Because you still got more devices pushing out at this edge and it's getting super local, right? Even on the body, even on people in the car. So certainly a lot of change on the infrastructure side. What does that pose for data challenge? >> Yeah, I, I would say that, you know users always want more, more bandwidth, more performance and that requires us to create more systems that require more complexity to deliver that user experience that we're, we're very proud of. And with that complexity means, you know exponentially more data. And so one of the wifi networks we offer in the Toronto subway system, T-connect, you know we see a 100-200,000 unique users a day and you can imagine just the amount of infrastructure to support that so that everyone has a seamless experience and can get their news and emails and even stream media while they're waiting for the subway. >> So you guys provide state of the art infrastructure for cell, wifi, broadcast, radio, IP networks, basically I mean, I call it the smart city kind of go-to. But that's basically anything involving kind of that edge piece. This is a huge thing. So as smart cities are on the table, which and you seeing 5G being called more of an enterprise app where there's feeding large dense areas of people this is now a new modern version of what I would call the, the smart city blueprint. What's changed in your mind on this whole modernization of this smart city infrastructure concept? What's new? What's cutting edge? >> Yeah. I would say that, you know there was an explosion of data and a lot of our insights aren't coming from one system anymore. It's coming from collecting data from all of the different pieces, the different infrastructure whether that's your fiber infrastructure or your wireless infrastructure, and then to solve problems you need to correlate data across those systems. So we're seeing more and more technologies that allow you to do that correlation. And that's really where we're finding tons of value, right? >> Thomas, take us through what you guys do as a, as a, as a product, a value proposition, the secret sauce, and and why I'm here with Jeremy? Why is this conversation important for the folks watching? What's the connection between Chaos Search and BAI communication? >> Well, it's data, right? And lots of it. So our unique platform allows people like Jeremy to stream all this data, right? In you know, today's world terabytes go to petabytes really easily, billions go to trillion really easily, and so providing the analysis of that data for their operations is challenging particularly based on technology and architectures that have been around for a long time. So what we do here at Chaos Search is the ability for BIA to stream all these devices, all these services into one centralized data lake on their cloud outer storage, where we connect to that cloud outer storage and transform it into an analytical database to do, in this case log analytics and do it seamlessly, easily where a new workload a new stream just streams into that lake. And we, as a service take over, we discover we index it and publish well-known open API and visualization so that they can focus on their business, not all the operational data pipeline, database and data engineering type work that again, at these types of scales is is frankly a nightmare. >> You know, one of the things that we've always observed on The Cube when you see new things come out that are really cool groundbreaking products like you guys are doing it's always a challenge to manage the cost and complexity of bringing in the new. So Jeremy, take us through this tech stack here because you know, it's, sometimes it might be unwieldy just in from a tech stack perspective, nevermind the business logic or the business processes that got to be either unwound or changed. Can you take us through the IT stack that's critical to support your, your area? >> Yeah, absolutely. So with all the various different equipment you know, to provide our public wifi and and our desks, carrier agnostic, LT and 5G networks, you know, we need to be able to adhere to PCI compliance and ISO 27,000, so that, you know, requires us to keep a tremendous amount of our data. And the challenge we were facing is how do we do that cost effectively, and not have to make any sort of compromises on how we do that? A lot of times you'll find you don't know the value of your data today until tomorrow. An example would be COVID. You know, we, when we were storing data two years ago we weren't planning for a pandemic, but now that we were able to retain that data and look back we can see a tremendous amount of value with trying to forecast how our systems will recover when things get back to normal. And so when I met Thomas and we were sort of talking about how we were going to solve some of these data retention problems, he started explaining to me their compression in some of the performance metrics of their profession. And, you know, I said, oh, middle out compression. And it was a bit, it's been a bit of a running joke between me and him and I'm sure others, but it's incredibly impressive the amount of data we're able to store at the kind of cost, right? >> What, what problem does, did he solve for you? Because I mean, these guys, honestly, you know the startups have a lot and the Cloud's enabling more value now, we're seeing this, but when you look at this what was your, what was your core problem that you had? >> Yeah, so we, when you we want to be able to, I mean, primarily this is for our CIS log server. And CIS long servers today aren't what they were 10, 15 years ago where you just sort of had a machine and if something broke you went and looked, right? Now, they're very complex, that data is feeding to various systems and third-party software. So, you know, we're actively looking for changes in patterns and we have our, you know security teams auditing these from, for penetration testing and such. And then the getting that data to S3 so that we could have it in case, you know, for two, three years of storage. Well, the problem we were facing is all of that all of these different systems we needed to feed and retain data, we couldn't do that on site. We wanted to do use S3 but when we were doing some projections, it's like, we, we don't really have the budget for all of these places. Meeting Thomas and, and working with Chaos Search, you know, using their compression brought those costs down drastically. And then as we've been working with them the really exciting thing is they we're bringing more and more features to that surface or offering. So, you know, first it was just storing that data away. And now we're starting to build solutions off of that sitting in storage. So that's where it gets really exciting because you know, there, it's nothing to start getting anomaly detection off those logs, which, you know originally it was just, we need to store them in case somebody needs them two, three years from now. >> So Thomas Thomas, if I get this right then what I'm hearing is obviously I've put aside the complexity and the governing side the regulations for a minute just generally. Data retention as, as a key value proposition and having data available when you need it and then to do that and doing it in a very cost-effective simple way. It sounds like what you guys are offering. Is that right? >> Yeah, I mean, one key aspect of our solution is retention, right? Those are a lot of the challenges, but at the same time we provide real time notification like a classic log analytic type platform, alerting, monitoring. The key thing is to bringing both those worlds together and solving that problem. And so this, you know, middle in middle out, well, to be frank, we created a new technology called what we call Chaos Index that is a database index that is wonderfully small as as we're indicating, but also provides all the features that makes Cloud object storage, high performance. And so the idea is that use this lake offering to store all your data in a cost effective way but our service allows you to analyze it both in a long retention perspective as well as real-time perspective and bringing those two worlds together is so key because typically you have Silo Solutions and whether it's real-time at scale or retention scale the cost complexity and time to build out those solutions I know Jeremy knows also, well, a lot of folks come to us to solve those problems because you know when you're dealing with, you know terabytes and up, you know these things get complicated and to be frank, fall over quite often. >> Yeah. Let me, let me just ask you the question that's probably on everyone's mind who's watching and you guys probably have both heard this many times, because a lot of people just throw the data lake solution around like it's, you know why they whitewash their kind of old legacy solutions with data lake, store it on data lake. It's been called a data swamp. So people are fearful that, okay. I love this idea of a data lake, who doesn't like throwing data into a repository, having it available at will with notifications, all this secret magic beans that just magically create value. But I doubt that, I don't want to turn into a data swamp. So Thomas and Jeremy, talk about that, that concern. How do you mitigate that? How do you talk to that? Because if done properly, there's huge value in having a control plane or some sort of data system that is going to be tied in with signals and just storage retention. So I see the value. How do you manage the concern that people might say, Hey, I don't want to date a swamp? >> Yeah, I'll jump into that. So, you know, let's just be frank, Hadoop was a great tool for a very narrow scenario. I think that data swamp came out because people were using the tooling in an incorrect way. I've always had the belief that data lakes are the future. You just have the right to have the right service the right philosophy to leverage it. So what we do here at Chaos Search is we allow you to organize it, discover it, automatically index that data so that swamp doesn't get swampy. You know, when you stream data into your lake how do you organize it, such that it's has a nice stream? How do you transform that data into a value? So with our service we actually start where the storage begins, not a end point, not an archive. So we have tooling and services that keep your lake from being swampy to be, to be clear. And, but the key value is the benefits of the lake, the cost effectiveness, the reliability, security, the scale, those are all the benefits. The problem was that no one really made cloud offer storage a first-class citizen and we've done that. We've dressed the swamp nature but provided all the value of analysis. And that cost metrics, that scale. No one can touch cloud outer storage, it just, you can't. But what we've done is cracked the code of how you make it analytical. >> Jeremy, I want to get your thoughts on this too, on your side I mean, as a practitioner and customer of, of of these solutions, you know, the concern is am I missing anything? And I've been a big proponent of data retention for many, many years. You know, Dave Alondra in our Cube knows all know that I bang on the table all the time, store your data, be a data hoarder, because it's going to come back and be valuable. Costs are going down so I'm a big fan of data retention. But the fear might be on, what am I missing? Because machine learning starts to come in down the road you got AI, the more data you have that's accessible in real time, the more machine learning is effective. Do you, do you worry about missing anything or do you just store everything? >> We, we store everything. Sometimes it's, it's interesting where the value and insights come from your data. Something that see, might seem trivial today down the road offers tremendous, tremendous value. So one of the things we do is provide because we have wifi in the subway infrastructure, you know taking that wifi data, we can start to understand the flow of people in and out of the subway network. And we can take that and provide insights to the rail operators, which get them from A to B quicker. You know, when we built the wifi it wasn't with the intention of getting Torontonians across the city faster. But that was one of the values that we were able to get from the data in terms of, you know, Thomas's solution, I think one of the reasons we we engaged him in the first place is because I didn't believe his compression. It sounded a little too good to be true. And so when it was time to try them out, you know all we had to do was ship data to an S3 bucket. You know, there's tons of, of solutions to do that. And, and data shippers right out of the box. It took a few, you know, a few minutes and then to start exploring the data was in Cabana, which is or their dashboard, which is, you know, an interface that's easy to use. So we were, you know, within a two days getting the value out of that data that we were looking for which is, you know, phenomenal. We've been very happy. >> Thomas, sounds like you've got a great, great testimonial here and it's not like an easy problem that he's living in there. I mean, I think, you know, I was mentioning this earlier and we're going to get into it now. There's regulations and there's certain compliance issues. First of all, everyone has this now problem now, it's not just within that space. But just the technical complexities of packets moving around I got on my wifi and the stop here, I'm jumping over here, and there's a ton of data it's all over the place, it's totally unstructured. So it's a tough, tough test for you guys, Chaos Search. So yeah, it's almost like the Mount Everest of customer testimonials. You've got to, it's a big, it's a big use case here. How does this translate to other clients? And talk about this governance and security controls because I know this highly regulated and you got there's penalties involved on his side of the world and Telco, the providers that have these edge devices there's actually penalties and, and whatnot so, not just commercial, it's maybe a, you know risk management, but here there's actually penalties. >> Absolutely. So, you know centralizing your data has a real benefit of of not getting in trouble, right? So you have one place, you store one place that's a good thing, but what we've done and this was a key aspect to our offering is we as Chaos, Chaos Search folks, we don't own the customer's data. We don't own BIA's data. They own the data. They give us access rights, very standard way with Cloud App storage roll on policies from Amazon, read only access rights to their data. And so not owning a customer's data is a big selling point not only for them, but for us for compliance regulatory perspective. So, you know, unlike a lot of solutions where you move the data into them and now they are responsible, actually BIA owns everything. We, they provide access so that we could provide an analysis that they could turn off at any point in time. We're also SOC 2 type 1 and type 2 compliant you got to do it, you know, in this, this world, you know when we were young we ran at this because of all of these compliance scenarios that we will be in, but, you know, the long as short of it is, we're transient service. The storage, cloud storage is the source of truth where all data resides and, you know, think about it, it's architecturally smart, it's cost effective, it's secure, it's reliable, it's durable. But from a security perspective, having the customer own their own data is a big differentiation in the market, a big differentiation. >> Jeremy, talk about on your end the security controls surrounding the log management environments that span across countries with different regulations. Now you've got all kinds of policy dimensions and technical dimensions and topology dimensions. >> Yeah, absolutely. So how we approach it is we look at where we have offerings across the globe and we figure out what the sort of highest watermark level of adherence we need to hit. And then we standardize across that. And by shipping to S3, it allows us to enforce that governance really easily and right to Tom's point you know, we manage the data, which is very important to us and we don't have to be worried about a third party or if we want to change providers years down the road. Although I don't think anyone's coming out with 81% compression anytime soon (laughs). But yeah, so that's, for us, it's about meeting those high standards and having the technologies that enable us to do it. And Chaos Search is a very big part of that right now. >> All right let me ask you a question, for the folks watching that are like really interested in this topic, what would you say to them when evaluating Chaos Search obviously, your use case is complex, but so are others as enterprises start to have an edge, obviously the security posture shifts, everything shifts. There's no more perimeter and the data problem becomes acute to them. So the enterprises are going to start seeing what you've been living for in your world. What's your advice to people watching? >> My advice would be to give them a try. You know, it's it's has been really quite impressive. The customer service has been hands-on and we've been getting, you know, they've been under-promising and over-delivering, which when you have the kind of requirements to manage solutions in these very complex environment, cloud local, you know various data centers and such, you know that kind of customer service is very important, right? It enables us to continue to deliver those high quality solutions. >> So Thomas give us the, the overview of the secret sauce. You've got a great testimonial here. You got people watching, what's different now in the world that you're going after, what wave are you on? Talk to the people who are watching this and saying, okay why Chaos Search? Why are you relevant? Obviously there's some cool things you're doing. I love that. What's cool, and what's relevant and why what's in it for them if they work with you? >> Yeah. So you know, that that whole Silicon Valley reference actually got that from my patent attorney when we were talking. But yeah, no, we, we, you know, focus on if we can crack this code of making data, one a face small, store small, moves small, process small. But then make it multimodal access make it virtual transformation. If we could do that, and we could transform cloud outer storage into a high-performance medical database all these heavy, heavy problems, all that complexity that scaffolding that you build to do these type of scales would be solved. Now what we had to focus on and this has been my, I guess you say life passion is working on a new data representation. And that's our secret sauce that enables a new architecture a new service that where the customer folks on their tooling, their APIs, their visualizations that they know and love, what we focus is on taking that data lake, and again, to transform it into an analytical database, both for log analytics think of like elastic search replacement, as well as a BI replacement for your SQL warehousing database. And coming out later this year into 2022, ML support on one representation. You don't have the silo your information you don't have to re index your data, both. So elastic search CQL and actually ML TensorFlow actions on the exact same representation. So think about the data retention, doing some post analysis on all those logs of data, months, years, and then maybe set up some triggers if you see some anomaly that's happening within your service. So you think about it, the hunt with BI reporting, with predictive analysis on one platform. Again, it sounds a little unicorn, I agree with Jeremy, maybe it didn't sound true but it's been a life's work. So it didn't happen overnight. And you know, it's eight years, at least in the in the making, but I guess the life journey in the end. >> Well, you know, the timing is great. You know, all the database geeks out there who have been following the data industry know that, you know there's a good point for structured data but when you start getting into mechanisms and they become a bottleneck or a blocker to innovation, you know you starting to see this idea of a data lake being let the data kind of form, let it be. You know, I hate the word control plane but more of a, a connective tissue between systems is become an interesting thing. So now you can store everything so you know, no worries there, no blind spots and then let the magic of machine learning in the future, come around. So Jeremy, with that, I got to ask you since you're the bad boy of data analytics at BAI communications head of data analytics, what does that, what do you look for in the future as you start to set this up because I can almost imagine and connecting the dots here in the interview, you got the data lake you're storing everything, which is good. Now you have to create more insights and get ahead of the curve and provide some prescriptive and automated ways to do things better. What's your vision? >> First I would just like to say that, you know when astrophysicists talk about, you know, dark dark energy, dark matter, I'm convinced that's where Thomas is hiding the ones and zeros to get that compression, right? I don't don't know that to be fact but I know it to be true. And then in terms of machine learning and these sort of future technologies, which are becoming available you know, starting from scratch and trying to build out you know, models that have value, you know that takes a fair amount of work. And that landscape keeps changing, right? Being able to push our data into an S3 bucket and then you know, retain that data and then get anomaly detection on top of it. That's, I mean, that's something special and that unlocks a lot of ability for you know, our teams to very easily deliver anomaly detection, machine learning to our customers, without having to take on a lot of work to understand the latest and greatest in machine learning. So, I mean, it's really empowering to our team, right? And, and a tool that we're going to. >> Yeah, I love and I love the name, Chaos Search, Thomas. I got to say, you know it brings up the inside baseball around chaos monkey which everyone knows was a DevOps tool to create kind of day two simulate day two operations and disruptions in DevOps. But what you're really getting at is your whole new architecture that's beyond DevOps movement, it's like next gen architecture. Talk about that to the people watching who have a lot of legacy and want to transform over to a more enabling platform that's going to give them some headroom for their data. What, what do you say to them? How do they get started? What, how should they, how what's their mindset? What they, what are some first principles you can share? >> Well, you know, I always start with first principles but you know, I like to say we're the next next gen. The key thing with the Chaos Search offering is you can start today with B, without even Chaos Search. Stream your data to S3. We're going to make hip and cool data lakes again. And actually it's a, Google it now, data lakes are hip and cool. So start streaming now, start managing your data in a well-formed centralized viewpoint with security governance and cost effectiveness. Then call Chaos Search shop, and we'll make access to it easily, simply to ultimately solve your problems. The bug whether your security issue, the bug, whether it's more performance issues at scale, right? And so when workloads can be added instantaneously in your data lake it's, it's game changing it's mind changing. So from the DevOps folks where, you know, you're up all night trying to say, how am I going to scale from terabyte, you know one today to 50 terabytes, don't. Stream it to S3. We'll take over, we'll worry about that scale pain. You worry about your job of security, performance, operations, integrity. >> That really highlights the cloud scale the value proposition as, as apps start to be using data as an input, not just as a a part of a repo repo, so great stuff. Thomas, thanks for sharing your life's work and your technology magic. Jeremy, thanks for coming on and sharing your use cases with us and how you are making it all work. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> My pleasure. >> Okay. This is The Cubes, coverage and presenting AWS this time showcase the next big thing here with Chaos Search. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is The Cube Conversation. >> Everyone welcome to this special live stream here in The Cube Studios. I'm John Furrier, your host. We've got a great panel discussion here for one hour, sponsored by Lumina PR, not sponsored but organized by Lumina PR. An authentic conversation around professionals in the news media, and communication professionals, how they can work together. As we know, pitching stories to national media takes place in the backdrop in today's market, which is on full display. The Coronavirus, racial unrest in our country and a lot of new tech challenges from companies, their role in society with their technology and of course, an election all make for important stories to be developed and reported. And we got a great panel here and the purpose is to bridge the two worlds. People trying to get news out for their companies in a way that's relevant and important for audiences. I've got a great panelists here, Gerard Baker Editor at Large with the Wall Street Journal, Eric Savitz, Associate Editor with Barron's and Brenna Goth who's a Southwest Staff Correspondent with Bloomberg Publications. Thanks for joining me today, guys, appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> So we're going to break this down, we got about an hour, we're going to probably do about 40 minutes. I'd love to get your thoughts in this power panel. And you guys are on the front lines decades of experience, seeing these waves of media evolve. And now more than ever, you can't believe what's happening. You're seeing the funding of journalism really challenging at an all time high. You have stories that are super important to audiences and society really changing and we need this more than ever to have more important stories to be told. So this is really a challenge. And so I want to get your thoughts on this first segment. The challenge is around collecting the data, doing the analysis, getting the stories out, prioritizing stories in this time. So I'd love to get your thoughts. We'll start with you, Brenna, what's your thoughts on this as you're out there in Arizona. Coronavirus on the worst is one of the states there. What are your challenges? >> I would say for me, one of the challenges of the past couple months is just the the sheer influx of different types of stories we've had and the amount of news coming out. So I think one of the challenging things is a lot of times we'll get into a bit of a routine covering one story. So early on maybe the Coronavirus, and then something else will come up. So I personally have been covering some of the Coronavirus news here in Arizona and in the Southwest, as well as some of the protests we've seen with the Black Lives Matter movement. And prioritizing that is pretty difficult. And so one thing that I I've been doing is I've noticed that a lot of my routine projects or things I've been working on earlier in the year are off the table, and I'll get back to them when I have time. But for now, I feel like I'm a little bit more on breaking news almost every day in a way that I wasn't before. >> Gerard, I want to get your thoughts on this. Wall Street Journal has been since I could remember when the web hit the scene early on very digital savvy. Reporting, it's obviously, awesome as well. As you have people in sheltering in place, both journalists and the people themselves and the companies, there's an important part of the digital component. How do you see that as an opportunity and a challenge at the same time because you want to get data out there, you want to be collecting and reporting those stories? How do you see that opportunity, given the challenge that people can't meet face to face? >> First of all, thank you very much for having me. I think as we've all discovered in all fields of endeavor in the last three months, it's been quite a revelation, how much we can do without using without access to the traditional office environment. I think one of the things that Coronavirus, this crisis will have done we all agree I think is that it will have fundamentally changed the way people work. There'll be a lot more people quite a bit more working from home. They'll be a lot more remote working. Generally, there'll be a lot less travel. So on the one hand, it's been eye opening. actually how relatively easy, I use that word carefully. But how we've managed, and I think it's true of all news organizations, how we've managed surprisingly well, I think, without actually being at work. At the Wall Street Journal, we have a big office, obviously in midtown Manhattan, as well as dozens of bureaus around the world. Nobody has really been in that office since the middle of March. And yet we've put out a complete Wall Street Journal product, everything from the print edition, obviously, through every aspect of digital media, the website, all of the apps, video, everything, audio, podcasts. We've been able to do pretty well everything that we could do when we were all working in the office. So I think that will be an important lesson and that will clearly induce some change, some long term changes, I think about the way we work. That said, I'd point to two particular challenges that I think we have not properly overcome. Or if you like that we have, the two impediments, that the crisis has produced for us. One is, as you said, the absence of face to face activity, the hive process, which I think is really important. I think that a lot of the best ideas, a lot of the best, the best stories are developed through conversations between people in an office which don't necessarily we can't necessarily replicate through the online experience through this kind of event or through the Zoom meetings that we've all been doing. I think that has inhibited to some extent, some of the more creative activity that we could have done. I think the second larger problem which we all must face with this is that being essentially locked up in our homes for more than three months, which most of us has been I think accentuates a problem that is already that has been a problem in journalism for a long time, which is that journalists tend to cluster in the major metropolitan areas. I think, a couple of years ago, I read a study which said, I think that more than three quarters of journalists work for major news organizations, print, digital TV, radio, whatever, live and work in one of four major metropolises in the US. That's the New York area, the Washington DC area, the San Francisco area and the LA area. And that tends to create a very narrow worldview, unfortunately, because not enough people either come from those areas, but from outside those areas or spend enough time talking to people from outside those areas. And I think the Coronavirus has accentuated that. And I think in terms of coverage, I'm here in New York. I've been in New York continuously for three and a half months now which is quite unusual, I usually travel a lot. And so my reporting, I write columns now, mainly, but obviously I talk to people too. But the reporting, the editing that we're doing here is inevitably influenced by the experience that we've had in New York, which has obviously been, frankly, devastating. New York has been devastated by Coronavirus in a way that no where else in the country has. And I think to some extent, that does, perhaps have undue influence on the coverage. We're all locked up. We're all mindful of our own health. We're all mindful of people that we know who've gone to hospital or have been very, very sick or where we are, we are heavily influenced by our own immediate environment. And I think that has been a problem if we had been, imagine if the journalists in the country, instead of being clustered in New York and LA and San Francisco had been sort of spread over Texas and Missouri and Florida, things like that. I think you'd have a very different overall accounting of this story over the last three months. So I think it's just, it's accentuated that phenomenon in journalism, which I think we're mindful of, and which we all need to do a better job of addressing. >> It's really interesting. And I want to come back to that point around, who you're collaborating with to get this, now we have virtual ground truth, I guess, how you collaborate. But decision making around stories is, you need an open mind. And if you have this, I guess, I'll call it groupthink or clustering is interesting, now we have digital and we have virtual, it opens up the aperture but we still have the groupthink. But I want to get Eric's take first on his work environment, 'cause I know you've lived on both sides of New York and San Francisco area, as well as you've worked out in the field for agencies, as well on the other side, on the storytelling side. How has this current news environment, journalism environment impacted your view and challenges and your opportunities that you're going after the news? >> Well, so there's there's a few elements here. So one, Barron's Of course, covers the world, looks at the world through a financial lens. We cover the stock market every day. The stock market is not the center of story, but it is an important element of what's been unfolding over the last few months and the markets have been incredibly volatile, we change the way that we approach the markets. Because everything, the big stories are macro stories, huge swings in stock prices, huge swings in the price of oil, dramatic moves in almost every financial security that you can imagine. And so there's a little bit of a struggle for us as we try and shift our daily coverage to be a little more focused on the macro stories as we're still trying to tell what's happening with individual stocks and companies, but these bigger stories have changed our approach. So even if you look at say the covers of our magazine over the last few months, typically, we would do a cover on a company or an investor, that sort of thing. And now they're all big, thematic stories, because the world has changed. And world is changing how it looks at the financial markets. I think one thing that that Gerard touched on is the inability to really leave your house. I'm sitting in my little home office here, where I've been working since March, and my inability to get out and talk to people in person to have some, some interface with the companies and people that I cover, makes it tougher. You get story ideas from those interactions. I think Gerard said some of it comes from your interactions with your colleagues. But some of that also just comes from your ability to interact with sources and that is really tougher to do. It's more formalistic if you do it online. It's just not the same to be on a Zoom call as to be sitting in a Starbucks with somebody and talking about what's going on. I think the other elements of this is that there's, we have a lot of attempts, trying new things trying to reach our readers. We'll do video sessions, we'll do all sorts of other things. And it's one more layer on top of everything else is that there's a lot of demands on the time for the people who are working in journalism right now. I would say one other thing I'll touch on, John, which is, you mentioned, I did use, I worked for public communications for a while, and I do feel their pain because the ability to do any normal PR pitching for new products, new services, the kinds of things that PR people do every day is really tough. It's just really hard to get anybody's attention for those things right now. And the world is focused on these very large problems. >> Well, we'll unpack the PR comms opportunities in the next section. But I want to to just come back to this topic teased out from Gerard and Brenna when you guys were getting out as well. This virtual ground truth, ultimately, at the end of the day, you got to get the stories, you got to report them, they got to be distributed. Obviously, the Wall Street Journal is operating well, by the way, I love the Q&A video chats and what they got going on over there. So the format's are evolving and doing a good job, people are running their business. But as journalists and reporters out there, you got to get the truth and the ground truth comes from interaction. So as you have an aperture with digital, there's also groupthink on, say, Twitter and these channels. So getting in touch with the audience to have those stories. How are you collecting the data? How are you reporting? Has anything changed or shifted that you can point to because ultimately, it's virtual. You still got to get the ground truth, you still got to get the stories. Any thoughts on this point? >> I think in a way what we're seeing is in writ large actually is a problem again, another problem that I think digital journalism or the digital product digital content, if you like, actually presents for us today, which is that it's often said, I think rightly, that one of the, as successful as a lot of digital journalism has been and thank you for what you said about the Wall Street Journal. And we have done a tremendous job and by the way, one of the things that's been a striking feature of this crisis has been the rapid growth in subscriptions that we've had at the Journal. I know other news organizations have too. But we've benefited particularly from a hunger for the quality news. And we've put on an enormous number subscriptions in the last three months. So we've been very fortunate in that respect. But one of the challenges that people always say, one of the one of the drawbacks that people always draw attention to about digital content is that there's a lack of, for want of a better words, serendipity about the experience. When you used to read a newspaper, print newspapers, when may be some of us are old enough to remember, we'd get a newspaper, we'd open it up, we'd look at the front page, we look inside, we'd look at what other sections they were. And we would find things, very large number of things that we weren't particularly, we weren't looking for, we weren't expecting to, we're looking for a story about such. With the digital experience, as we know, that's a much it's a much less serendipitous experience. So you tend to a lot of search, you're looking, you find things that you tend to be looking for, and you find fewer things that, you follow particular people on social media that you have a particular interest in, you follow particular topics and have RSS feeds or whatever else you're doing. And you follow things that, you tend to find things that you were looking for. You don't find many things you weren't. What I think that the virus, the being locked up at home, again, has had a similar effect. That we, again, some of the best stories that I think anybody comes across in life, but news organizations are able to do are those stories that you know that you come across when you might have been looking for something else. You might have been working on a story about a particular company with a particular view to doing one thing and you came across somebody else. And he or she may have told you something actually really quite different and quite interesting and it took you in a different direction. That is easier to do when you're talking to people face to face, when you're actually there, when you're calling, when you're tasked with looking at a topic in the realm. When you are again, sitting at home with your phone on your computer, you tend to be more narrowly so you tend to sort of operate in lanes. And I think that we haven't had the breadth probably of journalism that I think you would get. So that's a very important you talk about data. The data that we have is obviously, we've got access broadly to the same data that we would have, the same electronically delivered data that we would have if we'd been sitting in our office. The data that I think in some ways is more interesting is the non electronically delivered data that is again, the casual conversation, the observation that you might get from being in a particular place or being with someone. The stimuli that arise from being physically in a place that you just aren't getting. And I think that is an important driver of a lot of stories. And we're missing that. >> Well, Gerard, I just want to ask real quick before I go to Brenna on her her take on this. You mentioned the serendipity and taking the stories in certain directions from the interactions. But also there's trust involved. As you build that relationship, there's trust between the parties, and that takes you down that road. How do you develop trust as you are online now? Is there a methodology or technique? Because you want to get the stories out fast, it's a speed game. But there's also the development side of it where a trust equation needs to build. What's your thoughts on that piece? Because that's where the real deeper stories come from. >> So I wasn't sure if you're asking me or Gerard. >> Gerard if he wants can answer that is the trust piece. >> I'll let the others speak to that too. Yeah, it is probably harder to... Again, most probably most people, most stories, most investigative stories, most scoops, most exclusives tend to come from people you already trust, right? So you've developed a trust with them, and they've developed a trust with you. Perhaps more importantly, they know you're going to treat the story fairly and properly. And that tends to develop over time. And I don't think that's been particularly impaired by this process. You don't need to have a physical proximity with someone in order to be able to develop that trust. My sources, I generally speak to them on the phone 99% of the time anyway, and you can still do that from home. So I don't think that's quite... Obviously, again, there are many more benefits from being able to actually physically interact with someone. But I think the level of, trust takes a long time to develop, let's be honest, too, as well. And I think you develop that trust both by developing good sources. and again, as I said, with the sources understanding that you're going to do the story well. >> Brenna, speed game is out there, you got to get stories fast. How do you balance speed and getting the stories and doing some digging into it? What's your thoughts on all this? >> I would say, every week is looking different for me these days. A lot of times there are government announcements coming out, or there are numbers coming out or something that really does require a really quick story. And so what I've been trying to do is get those stories out as quick as possible with maybe sources I already have, or really just the facts on the ground I can get quickly. And then I think in these days, too, there is a ton of room for following up on things. And some news event will come out but it sparks another idea. And that's the time to that when I'm hearing from PR people or I'm hearing from people who care about the issue, right after that first event is really useful for me to hear who else is thinking about these things and maybe ways I can go beyond the first story for something that more in depth and adds more context and provides more value to our readers. >> Awesome. Well, guys, great commentary and insight there on the current situation. The next section is with the role of PR, because it's changing. I've heard the term earned media is a term that's been kicked around. Now we're all virtual, and we're all connected. The media is all virtual. It's all earned at this point. And that's not just a journalistic thing, there's storytelling. There's new voices emerging. You got these newsletter services, audiences are moving very quickly around trying to figure out what's real. So comms folks are trying to get out there and do their job and tell a story. And sometimes that story doesn't meet the cadence of say, news and/or reporting. So let's talk about that. Eric, you brought this up. You have been on both sides. You said you feel for the folks out there who are trying to do their job. How is the job changing? And what can they do now? >> The news cycle is so ferocious at the moment that it's very difficult to insert your weigh in on something that doesn't touch on the virus or the economy or social unrest or the volatility of the financial markets. So I think there's certain kinds of things that are probably best saved for another moment in time, If you're trying to launch new products or trying to announce new services, or those things are just tougher to do right now. I think that the most interesting questions right now are, If I'm a comms person, how can I make myself and my clients a resource to media who are trying to tell stories about these things, do it in a timely way, not overreach, not try insert myself into a story that really isn't a good fit? Now, every time one of these things happen, we got inboxes full of pitches for things that are only tangentially relevant and are probably not really that helpful, either to the reporter generally or to the client of the firm that is trying to pitch an idea. But I will say on the on this at the same time that I rely on my connections to people in corporate comms every single day to make connections with companies that I cover and need to talk to. And it's a moment when almost more than ever, I need immediacy of response, accurate information access to the right people at the companies who I'm trying to cover. But it does mean you need to be I think sharper or a little more pointed a little more your thinking about why am I pitching this person this story? Because the there's no time to waste. We are working 24 hours a day is what it feels like. You don't want to be wasting people's time. >> Well, you guys you guys represent big brands in media which is phenomenal. And anyone would love to have their company mentioned obviously, in a good way, that's their goal. But the word media relations means you relate to the media. If there's no media to relate to, the roles change, and there's not enough seats at the table, so to speak. So getting a clip on in the clip book that gets sent to management, look, "We're on Bloomberg." "Great, check." But is at it? So people, this is a department that needs to do more. Is there things that they can do, that isn't just chasing, getting on your franchises stories? Because it obviously would be great if we were all on Barron's Wall Street Journal, and Bloomberg, but they can't always get that. They still got to do more. They got to develop the relationships. >> John, one thing I would be conscious of here is that many of our publications, it's certainly true for journalists, true for us at Barron's and it's certainly true for Bloomberg. We're all multimedia publishers. We're doing lots of things. Barron's has television show on Fox. We have a video series. We have podcasts and newsletters, and daily live audio chats and all sorts of other stuff in addition to the magazine and the website. And so part of that is trying to figure out not just the right publication, but maybe there's an opportunity to do a very particular, maybe you'd be great fit for this thing, but not that thing. And having a real understanding of what are the moving parts. And then the other part, which is always the hardest part, in a way, is truly understanding not just I want to pitch to Bloomberg, but who do I want to pitch at Bloomberg. So I might have a great story for the Wall Street Journal and maybe Gerard would care but maybe it's really somebody you heard on the street who cares or somebody who's covering a particular company. So you have to navigate that, I think effectively. And even, more so now, because we're not sitting in a newsroom. I can't go yell over to somebody who's a few desks away and suggest they take a look at something. >> Do you think that the comm-- (talk over each other) Do you think the comms teams are savvy and literate in multimedia? Are they still stuck in the print ways or the group swing is they're used to what they're doing and haven't evolved? Is that something that you're seeing here? >> I think it varies. Some people will really get it. I think one of the things that that this comes back to in a sense is it's relationship driven. To Gerard's point, it's not so much about trusting people that I don't know, it's about I've been at this a long time, I know what people I know, who I trust, and they know the things I'm interested in and so that relationship is really important. It's a lot harder to try that with somebody new. And the other thing is, I think relevant here is something that we touched on earlier, which is the idiosyncratic element. The ability for me to go out and see new things is tougher. In the technology business, you could spend half your time just going to events, You could go to the conferences and trade shows and dinners and lunches and coffees all day long. And you would get a lot of good story ideas that way. And now you can't do any of that. >> There's no digital hallway. There are out there. It's called Twitter, I guess or-- >> Well, you're doing it from sitting in this very I'm still doing it from sitting in the same chair, having conversations, in some ways like that. But it's not nearly the same. >> Gerard, Brenna, what do you guys think about the comms opportunity, challenges, either whether it's directly or indirectly, things that they could do differently? Share your thoughts. Gerard, we'll start with you? >> Well, I would echo Eric's point as far as knowing who you're pitching to. And I would say that in, at least for the people I'm working with, some of our beats have changed because there are new issues to cover. Someone's taking more of a role covering virus coverage, someone's taking more of a role covering protests. And so I think knowing instead of casting a really wide net, I'm normally happy to try to direct pitches in the right direction. But I do have less time to do that now. So I think if someone can come to me and say, "I know you've been covering this, "this is how my content fits in with that." It'd grab my attention more and makes it easier for me. So I would say that that is one thing that as beats are shifting and people are taking on a little bit of new roles in our coverage, that that's something PR and marketing teams could definitely keep an eye on. >> I agree with all of that. And all everything everybody said. I'd say two very quick things. One, exactly as everybody said, really know who you are pitching to. It's partly just, it's going to be much more effective if you're pitching to the right person, the right story. But when I say that also make the extra effort to familiarize yourself with the work that that reporter or that editor has done. You cannot, I'm sorry to say, overestimate the vanity of reporters or editors or anybody. And so if you're pitching a story to a particular reporter, in a field, make sure you're familiar with what that person may have done and say to her, "I really thought you did a great job "on the reporting that you did on this." Or, "I read your really interesting piece about that," or "I listened to your podcast." It's a relatively easy thing to do that yields extraordinarily well. A, because it appeals to anybody's fantasy and we all have a little bit of that. But, B, it also suggests to the reporter or the editor or the person involved the PR person communications person pitching them, really knows this, has really done their work and has really actually takes this seriously. And instead of just calling, the number of emails I get, and I'm sure it's the same for the others too, or occasional calls out of the blue or LinkedIn messages. >> I love your work. I love your work. >> (voice cuts out) was technology. Well, I have a technology story for you. It's absolutely valueless. So that's the first thing, I would really emphasize that. The second thing I'd say is, especially on the specific relation to this crisis, this Coronavirus issue is it's a tricky balance to get right. On the one hand, make sure that what you're doing what you're pitching is not completely irrelevant right now. The last three months has not been a very good time to pitch a story about going out with a bunch of people to a crowded restaurant or whatever or something like that to do something. Clearly, we know that. At the same time, don't go to the other extreme and try and make every little thing you have seen every story you may have every product or service or idea that you're pitching don't make it the thing that suddenly is really important because of Coronavirus. I've seen too many of those too. People trying too hard to say, "In this time of crisis, "in this challenging time, what people really want to hear "about is "I don't know, "some new diaper "baby's diaper product that I'm developing or whatever." That's trying too hard. So there is something in the middle, which is, don't pitch the obviously irrelevant story that is just not going to get any attention through this process. >> So you're saying don't-- >> And at the same time, don't go too far in the other direction. And essentially, underestimate the reporter's intelligence 'cause that reporter can tell you, "I can see that you're trying too hard." >> So no shotgun approach, obviously, "Hey, I love your work." Okay, yeah. And then be sensitive to what you're working on not try to force an angle on you, if you're doing a story. Eric, I want to get your thoughts on the evolution of some of the prominent journalists that I've known and/or communication professionals that are taking roles in the big companies to be storytellers, or editors of large companies. I interviewed Andy Cunningham last year, who used to be With Cunningham Communications, and formerly of Apple, better in the tech space and NPR. She said, "Companies have to own their own story "and tell it and put it out there." I've seen journalists say on Facebook, "I'm working on a story of x." And then crowdsource a little inbound. Thoughts on this new role of corporations telling their own story, going direct to the consumers. >> I think to a certain extent, that's valuable. And in some ways, it's a little overrated. There are a lot of companies creating content on their websites, or they're creating their own podcasts or they're creating their own newsletter and those kinds of things. I'm not quite sure how much of that, what the consumption level is for some of those things. I think, to me, the more valuable element of telling your story is less about the form and function and it's more about being able to really tell people, explain to them why what they do matters and to whom it matters, understanding the audience that's going to want to hear your story. There are, to your point, there are quite a few journalists who have migrated to either corporate communications or being in house storytellers of one kind or another for large businesses. And there's certainly a need to figure out the right way to tell your story. I think in a funny way, this is a tougher moment for those things. Because the world is being driven by external events, by these huge global forces are what we're all focused on right now. And it makes it a lot tougher to try and steer your own story at this particular moment in time. And I think you do see it Gerard was talking about don't try and... You want to know what other people are doing. You do want to be aware of what others are writing about. But there's this tendency to want to say, "I saw you wrote a story about Peloton "and we too have a exercise story that you can, "something that's similar." >> (chuckles) A story similar to it. We have a dance video or something. People are trying to glam on to things and taking a few steps too far. But in terms of your original question, it's just tougher at the moment to control your story in that particular fashion, I think. >> Well, this brings up a good point. I want to get to Gerard's take on this because the Wall Street Journal obviously has been around for many, many decades. and it's institution in journalism. In the old days, if you weren't relevant enough to make the news, if you weren't the most important story that people cared about, the editors make that choice and you're on the front page or in a story editorially. And companies would say, "No, but I should be in there." And you'd say, "That's what advertising is for." And that's the way it seemed to work in the past. If you weren't relevant in the spirit of the decision making of important story or it needs to be communicated to the audience, there's ads for that. You can get a full page ad in the old days. Now with the new world, what's an ad, what's a story? You now have multiple omni-channels out there. So traditionally, you want to get the best, most important story that's about relevance. So companies might not have a relevant story and they're telling a boring story. There's no there, there, or they miss the story. How do you see this? 'Cause this is the blend, this is the gray area that I see. It's certainly a good story, depending on who you're talking to, the 10 people who like it. >> I think there's no question. We're in the news business, topicality matters. You're going to have a much better chance of getting your story, getting your product or service, whatever covered by the Wall Street Journal, Barron's or anywhere else for that matter, if it seems somehow news related, whether it's the virus or the unrest that we've been seeing, or it's to do with the economy. Clearly, you can have an effect. Newspapers, news organizations of all the three news organizations we represent don't just, are not just obviously completely obsessed with what happened this morning and what's going on right now. We are all digging into deeper stories, especially in the business field. Part of what we all do is actually try to get beyond the daily headlines. And so what's happening with the fortunes of a particular company. Obviously, they may be impacted by they're going to be impacted by the lockdown and Coronavirus. But they actually were doing some interesting things that they were developing over the long term, and we would like to look into that too. So again, there is a balance there. And I'm not going to pretend that if you have a really topical story about some new medical device or some new technology for dealing with this new world that we're all operating in, you're probably going to get more attention than you would if you don't have that. But I wouldn't also underestimate, the other thing is, as well as topicality, everybody's looking at the same time to be different, and every journalist wants to do something original and exclusive. And so they are looking for a good story that may be completely unrelated. In fact, I would also underestimate, I wouldn't underestimate either the desire of readers and viewers and listeners to actually have some deeper reported stories on subjects that are not directly in the news right now. So again, it's about striking the balance right. But I wouldn't say that, that there is not at all, I wouldn't say there is not a strong role for interesting stories that may not have anything to do what's going on with the news right now. >> Brenna, you want to add on your thoughts, you're in the front lines as well, Bloomberg, everyone wants to be on Bloomberg. There's Bloomberg radio. You guys got tons of media too, there's tons of stuff to do. How do they navigate? And how do you view the interactions with comms folks? >> It looks we're having a little bit of challenge with... Eric, your thoughts on comm professionals. The questions in the chats are everything's so fast paced, do you think it's less likely for reporters to respond to PR comms people who don't have interacted with you before? Or with people you haven't met before? >> It's an internal problem. I've seen data that talks about the ratio of comms people to reporters, and it's, I don't know, six or seven to one or something like that, and there are days when it feels like it's 70 to one. And so it is challenging to break through. And I think it's particularly challenging now because some of the tools you might have had, you might have said, "Can we grab coffee one day or something like that," trying to find ways to get in front of that person when you don't need them. It's a relationship business. I know this is a frustrating answer, but I think it's the right answer which is those relationships between media and comms people are most successful when they've been established over time. And so you're not getting... The spray and pray strategy doesn't really work. It's about, "Eric, I have a story that's perfect for you. "And here's why I think you you should talk to this guy." And if they really know me, there's a reasonable chance that I'll not only listen to them, but I'll at least take the call. You need to have that high degree of targeting. It is really hard to break through and people try everything. They try, the insincere version of the, "I read your story, it was great. "but here's another great story." Which maybe they read your story, maybe they didn't at least it was an attempt. Or, "if you like this company, you'll love that one." People try all these tricks to try and get get to you. I think the highest level of highest probability of success comes from the more information you have about not just what I covered yesterday, but what do I cover over time? What kinds of stories am I writing? What kinds of stories does the publication write? And also to keep the pitching tight, I was big believer when I was doing comms, you should be able to pitch stories in two sentences. And you'll know from that whether there's going to be connection or not, don't send me five or more pitches. Time is of the essence, keep it short and as targeted as possible. >> That's a good answer to Paul Bernardo's question in the chat, which is how do you do the pitch. Brenna, you're back. Can you hear us? No. Okay. We'll get back to her when she gets logged back in. Gerard, your thoughts on how to reach you. I've never met you before, if I'm a CEO or I'm a comms person, a company never heard of, how do I get your attention? If I can't have a coffee with you with COVID, how do I connect with you virtually? (talk over each other) >> Exactly as Eric said, it is about targeting, it's really about making sure you are. And again, it's, I hate to say this, but it's not that hard. If you are the comms person for a large or medium sized company or even a small company, and you've got a particular pitch you want to make, you're probably dealing in a particular field, a particular sector, business sector or whatever. Let's say it says not technology for change, let's say it's fast moving consumer goods or something like that. Bloomberg, Brenna is in an enormous organization with a huge number of journalist you deal and a great deal of specialism and quality with all kinds of sectors. The Wall Street Journal is a very large organization, we have 13, 1400 reporters, 13 to 1400 hundred journalist and staff, I should say. Barron's is a very large organization with especially a particularly strong field coverage, especially in certain sectors of business and finance. It's not that hard to find out A, who is the right person, actually the right person in those organizations who's been dealing with the story that you're trying to sell. Secondly, it's absolutely not hard to find out what they have written or broadcast or produced on in that general field in the course of the last, and again, as Eric says, going back not just over the last week or two, but over the last year or two, you can get a sense of their specialism and understand them. It's really not that hard. It's the work of an hour to go back and see who the right person is and to find out what they've done. And then to tailor the pitch that you're making to that person. And again, I say that partly, it's not purely about the vanity of the reporter, it's that the reporter will just be much more favorably inclined to deal with someone who clearly knows, frankly, not just what they're pitching, but what the journalist is doing and what he or she, in his or her daily activity is actually doing. Target it as narrowly as you can. And again, I would just echo what Eric and I think what Brenna was also saying earlier too that I'm really genuinely surprised at how many very broad pitches, again, I'm not directly in a relative role now. But I was the editor in chief of the Journal for almost six years. And even in that position, the number of extraordinarily broad pitches I get from people who clearly didn't really know who I was, who didn't know what I did, and in some cases, didn't even really know what Wall Street Journal was. If you can find that, if you actually believe that. It's not hard. It's not that hard to do that. And you will have so much more success, if you are identifying the organization, the people, the types of stories that they're interested in, it really is not that difficult to do. >> Okay, I really appreciate, first of all, great insight there. I want to get some questions from the crowd so if you're going to chat, there was a little bit of a chat hiccup in there. So it should be fixed. We're going to go to the chat for some questions for this distinguished panel. Talk about the new coffee. There's a good question here. Have you noticed news fatigue, or reader seeking out news other than COVID? If so, what news stories have you been seeing trending? In other words, are people sick and tired of COVID? Or is it still on the front pages? Is that relevant? And if not COVID, what stories are important, do you think? >> Well, I could take a brief stab at that. I think it's not just COVID per se, for us, the volatility of the stock market, the uncertainties in the current economic environment, the impact on on joblessness, these massive shifts of perceptions on urban lifestyles. There's a million elements of this that go beyond the core, what's happening with the virus story. I do think as a whole, all those things, and then you combine that with the social unrest and Black Lives Matter. And then on top of that, the pending election in the fall. There's just not a lot of room left for other stuff. And I think I would look at it a little bit differently. It's not finding stories that don't talk on those things, it's finding ways for coverage of other things whether it's entertainment. Obviously, there's a huge impact on the entertainment business. There's a huge impact on sports. There's obviously a huge impact on travel and retail and restaurants and even things like religious life and schooling. I have the done parents of a college, was about to be a college sophomore, prays every day that she can go back to school in the fall. There are lots of elements to this. And it's pretty hard to imagine I would say to Gerard's point earlier, people are looking for good stories, they're always looking for good stories on any, but trying to find topics that don't touch on any of these big trends, there's not a lot of reasons to look for those. >> I agree. Let me just give you an example. I think Eric's exactly right. It's hard to break through. I'll just give you an example, when you asked that question, I just went straight to my Wall Street Journal app on my phone. And of course, like every organization, you can look at stories by sections and by interest and by topic and by popularity. And what are the three most popular stories right now on the Wall Street Journal app? I can tell you the first one is how exactly do you catch COVID-19? I think that's been around since for about a month. The second story is cases accelerate across the United States. And the third story is New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, tell travelers from areas with virus rates to self isolate. So look, I think anecdotally, there is a sense of COVID fatigue. Well, we're all slightly tired of it. And certainly, we were probably all getting tired, or rather distressed by those terrible cases and when we've seen them really accelerate back in March and April and these awful stories of people getting sick and dying. I was COVID fatigued. But I just have to say all of the evidence we have from our data, in terms of as I said earlier, the interest in the story, the demand for what we're doing, the growth in subscriptions that we've had, and just as I said, little things like that, that I can point you at any one time, I can guarantee you that our among our top 10 most read stories, at least half of them will be COVID-19. >> I think it's safe to say general interest in that outcome of progression of that is super critical. And I think this brings up the tech angle, which we can get into a minute. But just stick with some of these questions I just want to just keep these questions flowing while we have a couple more minutes left here. In these very challenging times for journalism, do byline articles have more power to grab the editors attention in the pitching process? >> Well, I think I assume what the questioner is asking when he said byline articles is contributed. >> Yes. >> Contributed content. Barron's doesn't run a lot of contributing content that way in a very limited way. When I worked at Forbes, we used to run tons of it. I'm not a big believer that that's necessarily a great way to generate a lot of attention. You might get published in some publication, if you can get yourself onto the op ed page of The Wall Street Journal or The New York Times, more power to you. But I think in most cases-- >> It's the exception not the rule Exception not the rule so to speak, on the big one. >> Yeah. >> Well, this brings up the whole point about certainly on SiliconANGLE, our property, where I'm co founder and chief, we basically debate over and get so many pitches, "hey, I want to write for you, here's a contributed article." And it's essentially an advertisement. Come on, really, it's not really relevant. In some case we (talk over each other) analysts come in and and done that. But this brings up the question, we're seeing these newsletters like sub stack and these services really are funding direct journalism. So it's an interesting. if you're good enough to write Gerard, what's your take on this, you've seen this, you have a bit of experience in this. >> I think, fundamental problem here is that is people like the idea of doing by lines or contributed content, but often don't have enough to say. You can't just do, turn your marketing brochure into a piece of an 800 word with the content that that's going to be compelling or really attract any attention. I think there's a place for it, if you truly have something important to say, and if you really have something new to say, and it's not thinly disguised marketing material. Yeah, you can find a way to do that. I'm not sure I would over-rotate on that as an approach. >> No, I just briefly, again, I completely agree. At the Journal we just don't ever publish those pieces. As Eric says, you're always, everyone is always welcome to try and pitch to the op ed pages of the Journal. They're not generally going to I don't answer for them, I don't make those decisions. But I've never seen a marketing pitch run as an op ed effectively. I just think you have to know again, who you're aiming at. I'm sure it's true for Bloomberg, Barron's and the Journal, most other major news organizations are not really going to consider that. There might be organizations, there might be magazines, digital and print magazines. There might be certain trade publications that would consider that. Again, at the Journal and I'm sure most of the large news organizations, we have very strict rules about what we can publish. And how and who can get published. And it's essentially journal editorials, that journal news staff who can publish stories we don't really take byline, outside contribution. >> Given that your time is so valuable, guys, what's the biggest, best practice to get your attention? Eric, you mentioned keeping things tight and crisp. Are there certain techniques to get your attention? >> Well I'll mention just a couple of quick things. Email is better than most other channels, despite the volume. Patience is required as a result because of the volume. People do try and crawl over the transom, hit you up on LinkedIn, DM you on Twitter, there's a lot of things that people try and do. I think a very tightly crafted, highly personalized email with the right subject line is probably still the most effective way, unless it's somebody you actually, there are people who know me who know they have the right to pick up the phone and call me if they really think they have... That's a relationship that's built over time. The one thing on this I would add which I think came up a little bit before thinking about it is, you have to engage in retail PR, not not wholesale PR. The idea that you're going to spam a list of 100 people and think that that's really going to be a successful approach, it's not unless you're just making an announcement, and if you're issuing your earnings release, or you've announced a large acquisition or those things, fine, then I need to get the information. But simply sending around a very wide list is not a good strategy, in most cases, I would say probably for anyone. >> We got Brenna back, can you hear me? She's back, okay. >> I can hear you, I'm back. >> Well, let's go back to you, we missed you. Thanks for coming back in. We had a glitch on our end but appreciate it, bandwidth internet is for... Virtual is always a challenge to do live, but thank you. The trend we're just going through is how do I pitch to you? What's the best practice? How do I get your attention? Do bylines lines work? Actually, Bloomberg doesn't do that very often either as well as like the Journal. but your thoughts on folks out there who are really trying to figure out how to do a good job, how to get your attention, how to augment your role and responsibilities. What's your thoughts? >> I would say, going back to what we said a little bit before about really knowing who you're pitching to. If you know something that I've written recently that you can reference, that gets my attention. But I would also encourage people to try to think about different ways that they can be part of a story if they are looking to be mentioned in one of our articles. And what I mean by that is, maybe you are launching new products or you have a new initiative, but think about other ways that your companies relate to what's going on right now. So for instance, one thing that I'm really interested in is just the the changing nature of work in the office place itself. So maybe you know of something that's going on at a company, unlimited vacation for the first time or sabbaticals are being offered to working parents who have nowhere to send their children, or something that's unique about the current moment that we're living in. And I think that those make really good interviews. So it might not be us featuring your product or featuring exactly what your company does, but it still makes you part of the conversation. And I think it's still, it's probably valuable to the company as well to get that mention, and people may be looking into what you guys do. So I would say that something else we are really interested in right now is really looking at who we're quoting and the diversity of our sources. So that's something else I would put a plug in for PR people to be keeping an eye on, is if you're always putting up your same CEO who is maybe of a certain demographic, but you have other people in your company who you can give the opportunity to talk with the media. I'm really interested in making sure I'm using a diverse list of sources and I'm not just always calling the same person. So if you can identify people who maybe even aren't experienced with it, but they're willing to give it a try, I think that now's a really good moment to be able to get new voices in there. >> Rather than the speed dial person you go to for that vertical or that story, building out those sources. >> Exactly. >> Great, that's great insight, Everyone, great insights. And thank you for your time on this awesome panel. Love to do it again. This has been super informative. I love some of the engagement out there. And again, I think we can do more of these and get the word out. I'd like to end the panel on an uplifting note for young aspiring journalists coming out of school. Honestly, journalism programs are evolving. The landscape is changing. We're seeing a sea change. As younger generation comes out of college and master's programs in journalism, we need to tell the most important stories. Could you each take a minute to give your advice to folks either going in and coming out of school, what to be prepared for, how they can make an impact? Brenna, we'll start with you, Gerard and Eric. >> That's a big question. I would say one thing that has been been encouraging about everything going on right now as I have seen an increased hunger for information and an increased hunger for accurate information. So I do think it can obviously be disheartening to look at the furloughs and the layoffs and everything that is going on around the country. But at the same time, I think we have been able to see really big impacts from the people that are doing reporting on protests and police brutality and on responses to the virus. And so I think for young journalists, definitely take a look at the people who are doing work that you think is making a difference. And be inspired by that to keep pushing even though the market might be a little bit difficult for a while. >> I'd say two things. One, again, echoing what Brenna said, identify people that you follow or you admire or you think are making a real contribution in the field and maybe directly interact with them. I think all of us, whoever we are, always like to hear from young journalists and budding journalists. And again, similar advice to giving to the advice that we were giving about PR pitches. If you know what that person has been doing, and then contact them and follow them. And I know I've been contacted by a number of young journalists like that. The other thing I'd say is and this is more of a plea than a piece of advice. But I do think it will work in the long run, be prepared to go against the grain. I fear that too much journalism today is of the same piece. There is not a lot of intellectual diversity in what we're seeing There's a tendency to follow the herd. Goes back a little bit to what I was saying right at the opening about the fact that too many journalists, quite frankly, are clustered in the major metropolitan areas in this country and around the world. Have something distinctive and a bit different to say. I'm not suggesting you offer some crazy theory or a set of observations about the world but be prepared to... To me, the reason I went into journalism was because I was always a bit skeptical about whenever I saw something in any media, which especially one which seemed to have a huge amount of support and was repeated in all places, I always asked myself, "Is that really true? "Is that actually right? "Maybe there's an alternative to that." And that's going to make you stand out as a journalist, that's going to give you a distinctiveness. It's quite hard to do in some respects right now, because standing out from the crowd can get you into trouble. And I'm not suggesting that people should do that. Have a record of original storytelling, of reporting, of doing things perhaps that not, because look, candidly, there are probably right now in this country, 100,00 budding putative journalists who would like to go out and write about, report on Black Lives Matter and the reports on the problems of racial inequality in this country and the protests and all of that kind of stuff. The problem there is there are already 100,000 of those people who want to do that in addition to probably the 100,000 journalists who are already doing it. Find something else, find something different. have something distinctive to offer so that when attention moves on from these big stories, whether it's COVID or race or politics or the election or Donald Trump or whatever. Have something else to offer that is quite distinctive and where you have actually managed to carve out for yourself a real record as having an independent voice. >> Brenna and Gerard, great insight. Eric, take us home close us out. >> Sure. I'd say a couple things. So one is as a new, as a young journalist, I think first of all, having a variety of tools in your toolkit is super valuable. So be able to write long and write short, be able to do audio, blogs, podcast, video. If you can shoot photos and the more skills that you have, a following on social media. You want to have all of the tools in your toolkit because it is challenging to get a job and so you want to be able to be flexible enough to fill all those roles. And the truth is that a modern journalist is finding the need to do all of that. When I first started at Barron's many, many years ago, we did one thing, we did a weekly magazine. You'd have two weeks to write a story. It was very comfortable. And that's just not the way the world works anymore. So that's one element. And the other thing, I think Gerard is right. You really want to have a certain expertise if possible that makes you stand out. And the contradiction is, but you also want to have the flexibility to do lots of different stories. You want to get (voice cuts out) hold. But if you have some expertise, that is hard to find, that's really valuable. When Barron's hires we're always looking for people who have, can write well but also really understand the financial markets. And it can be challenging for us sometimes to find those people. And so I think there's, you need to go short and long. It's a barbell strategy. Have expertise, but also be flexible in both your approach and the things you're willing to cover. >> Great insight. Folks, thanks for the great commentary, great chats for the folks watching, really appreciate your valuable time. Be original, go against the grain, be skeptical, and just do a good job. I think there's a lot of opportunity. And I think the world's changing. Thanks for your time. And I hope the comms folks enjoyed the conversation. Thank you for joining us, everyone. Appreciate it. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thank you. >> I'm John Furrier here in the Cube for this Cube Talk was one hour power panel. Awesome conversation. Stay in chat if you want to ask more questions. We'll come back and look at those chats later. But thank you for watching. Have a nice day. (instrumental music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host Dave Vellante. >> Hi everybody, welcome to this CUBE conversation. I'm Dave Vellante.\ We're going to talk about unified communications and its role in digital transformations. Ray Krug is here. He's a solutions architect at NETSCOUT. Ray, good to see you, thanks for coming on. >> Hi Dave, good to be here. >> So talk a little bit about NETSCOUT. You guys are into a lot of different things, but give us the overview. >> Yeah, NETSCOUT, what they're primarily focused on is providing the visibility to assure digital business initiatives, to provide availability assurance, performance assurance, as well as security assurance as well and we do this using our smart data and smart analytics platform. We kind of do this for, okay, got a huge customer base, we do this for over 90% of the Fortune 500, 95% of the carrier service providers, so we scale to these large enterprises, sophisticated service providers, providing the visibility they need to assure their services. >> So as a solution architect what specifically is your role? >> Probably worthwhile giving a bit of history because I know we're talking about unified communications. So I have been with NETSCOUT now for about eight years it's been and I came from an acquisition. The acquisition was from a British company, a spin-out of British telecom called Psytechnics and we specialized, this is eight years, well 10 years ago, in analyzing the IP network for voice and video traffic and actually being able to understand how we can take impoundments in the network and how that translates to impoundments in voice quality over a voiceover IP. So that was the original data transformation project, the so-called digital transformation from TDM networks to IP. So yeah, we took those analytics and basically figured out how to do that. >> So deep understanding of actually what's going on in the network? >> Yeah absolutely, and what was exciting, and back to NETSCOUT, is when they acquired Psytechnics, they took this technology and put that into their pro-technology, they did that within three or four months. Our technology was in their probe monitoring the voice, both voiceover IP networks, and then what was interesting, within 12 months, all our workflows that we created for insured performance of voiceover IP networks got embedded into the NETSCOUT portfolio of products. And since then, eight years, winding on forward, we've been embedding more and more technology into our InGenuis One platform to give you better and better voice, video, and unified communication analytics. >> I love that story, Ray, because the vast majority of mergers and acquisitions fail to meet their original objectives, they take too long to integrate so some companies are good at it, some not so good at it, so it must've been pleasing to see that happen, and see your baby actually scale like that. All right, lets talk about big picture. What are the big trends that you see sort of driving unified communications today? >> Yeah, unified communications is getting more and more complex, and perhaps on one accord, sophisticated, but you kind of think, okay, most common used case for us is to be a contact center because at the end of the day, contact center, the customers are demanding more and more ways to interact with the business, traditionally it was voice but now they want web, web chats, video, whatever it might be, so contact centers a big consumer of unified communications. And then there's the different technology trends like, of course, Microsoft Skype for business, evolving into Microsoft Teams, or Cisco Jabber, unified communications and all that sort of thing. A whole bunch of other topics going on, again, part of digital transformation initiatives, SIP trunking, we're still seeing that going on. So I was talking about TDM to IP, so that was back in my day in Psytechnics, now it's taking those and transferring IP to SIP trunking to save costs, that's the main thing, but it is a change and it is more, not instrumentation, but more appliances on a network, like session border controllers in order to add your SIP trunking, and of course there's also other technology, migration to the cloud as well, which ends up, from our perspective what we're seeing is in very hybrid environments. So now you've got a lot of on-prem stuff and some cloud stuff, it's all going to work together in order to make voice, video, unified communications successful. >> Isn't another sort of challenge, I'll call it give the people what they want, you talk about contact centers being a primary source, people want to communicate in different ways. Young people maybe want to use chat, some people like me want to pick up and talk to a human. Is that part of the challenge, is bringing all those together to service all these different constituents? >> Yeah, absolutely, because at the end of the day, it's a contact center, you want to make sure you provide an engaging experience to your customers, however that might be. Omnichannel or whatever word you want to do it. The longer and happier the customer is dealing with your business, perhaps the more money they'll spend with your business, perhaps the better brand awareness they have of your business as well. >> So double click into some of the challenges of actually bringing this stuff together, making it work, is it cost, you mentioned complexity before, is it understanding the analytics, who's using what, predicting, double click on that. >> That's a big topic, but we talked about new features and immersive experience from unified communications, so that's all brilliant. The trouble is, high quality is key. You got to make sure that it's successful, so any migration project, you need to be successful to make sure that you've succeeded. Okay, so that's number one. Quality is key, but also in terms of cost, sometimes these initiatives about cost savings, so SIP trunking is a good example of that. I want to make my service the same as it was before, have some sort of future upgrade capability, but kind of make it cheaper, that's what SIP trunking does for you as well. So those are some of the reasons for doing it, but then that introduces more components in your infrastructure to make all that stuff work and it's not just about voice and video, it's all about the other backend servers as well to make it all happen whether that's mail or chat or presence or whatever it might be. Lots of components now that have to work together, stuff that you control but also stuff that you don't control like SIP trunks is a good example, or gateways out to the PSTs, things that you don't control, and that makes it kind of really tricky to deal with. There's a bunch of other stuff as well that's important, network convergence, you've got all these applications converging onto that one network infrastructure, how do you manage that? >> Quick tangent. So you mentioned SIP trunking, explain what that is for our audience so they don't have to google it. (Ray laughs) >> Yeah, so SIP trunking, basically, if you think about gatewaying out to the PSTN in terms of making your plain old telephone calls, dialing a number and sending out, SIP trunking does that all from an IP perspective. So the idea is, you don't necessarily do a conversion to TDM, traditional phone systems, it all goes IP. So basically, you then send everything out, IP, over the network, it gets to the other end, and the whole purpose of that, it's a service that you buy from your service provider and it's cheap. >> Okay, you talked about these challenges. Generally, how does the industry approach solving these problems and specifically how does NETSCOUT solve them? >> Great question. So traditionally, let's sort of rewind a little bit, I talked about a lot of components that need to work together to make your unified communications experience. Lots of servers, lots of network infrastructure, firewalls, session boarder controllers and all that. Traditionally, what you do is monitor each of those devices. Take a look at their CPU utilization, or take a look at how the servers are performing, and often, very little is taken into account about the network and how that's behaving, because again, I've said it's a converged network. So you end up with a picture saying, all my servers are working fine, but then you end up with the problem, but users are complaining because they can't dial, users are complaining because the quality is bad. So that's kind of the problem with trying to bring all those together using the different metrics and coming up with some sort of conclusion. >> And then it's finger pointing, right? >> Oh yeah, classic. >> Which mole to whack. >> Yeah, in constant use cases, war rooms, okay, all my lights are green for every person in that war room but the people are still complaining, absolutely. >> Okay, so talk more about how NETSCOUT approaches this. >> So, the name gives it away, really. We always focus on what's going on in the network, wherever that network may be, so we're taking a look at that, we call it Y data, it's packet data, and we're able to translate that. Whatever's going over the wires, whether it be an application going over the wires or whether it be unified communications going over the wire like voiceover IP, RTP, or signaling, SIP as an example of those. So we're able to get that picture of how everything is communicating with each other, and we're being able to raise that level. So packets are notoriously hard to interpret, but we've cracked it, we've got a sort of technology, it's a patented technology called ASI, adaptive service intelligence, we call it smart data, but it's converting that Y data into meaningful keeper points metrics. So you name it, you name the application, we've got performance metrics. So whether that be voice, voice quality, mean opinion score, we're taking that from the Y data. Whether it be application performance from a database that might be running, or a mail server that might be running, we have performance. Whether it's this signaling that goes on to get data and all that, we have performance metrics about that. So we're using the same data set, the Y data, bringing it up to our analytics, our ASI layer, and then we have an understanding of what component's failing. Is it the voice that's failing? Is it this part of the network that's failing? And then, for voice, there's a whole topic on how we understand that, remembering my background and the analytics behind that. >> So, your secret sauce is you've got this deep probe into the network, you've got this ASI, this patented technology, and you've got an architecture to leverage that capability, and that is really your big differentiator from a technical perspective? Is that right? >> Well, from a technical perspective, absolutely. And from an obvious perspective, we solve, in the easiest way, the most complex problems. It's kind of where it's coming, 'cause these are tricky problems to do, they sometimes go unseen for ages, but because we've got that overall visibility, we get to that root cause very quickly. >> Okay, let's talk about the business impact. Maybe you can give us some examples, customer examples, and how it affected their business? >> Yeah, so that's important. A couple of things, let's imagine you're contact center, a service company, so I've got one in mind, and the one that I have in mind, six contact centers, they take up to about 100,000 calls in a day. So it's important. They're a service company so people phone them up to have their service. If you can't make contact with your service company, maybe the impact of that is, okay, that service is rubbish, I'm going to go to a competitor, as an example. Or you don't get your service that you require. So there's huge implications. In this example, we've found that calls were dropping, as an example, so people are connecting with their agent, calls are dropping, okay, hopeless. It's really problematic. And it's interesting that you pointed out about war rooms and finger pointing, and that's exactly what happened. What they'd done, they'd engaged in a SIP trunking project to deploy SIP trunking they were going to save a million dollars a month by implementing this SIP trunk. So that's huge, okay yet, when they deployed this, they were having a bad experience, so that's critical, so they needed to achieve that successful migration, so they had tours but nothing that could spot what was going on with these calls dropping. So along come NETSCOUT, we deployed our probe, and very quickly, it's just amazing, very quickly we were to able to analyze the reason for the call dropping. Turned out it was a firewall issue, complex network so it's kind of difficult to know where the traffic is routing. We were able to figure that out, give it the evidence to say the signaling, the SIP, was dropping, and we were able to pinpoint that and they got that fixed very quickly. >> Which meant that they were able to realize that million dollar a month savings. >> Precisely, yes exactly. Let alone that any business that might've been affected by the fact that people couldn't call in. >> Any other examples you can share? >> Yeah, I've got a really great one, probably closer to a lot of people's hearts, and relates to a hospital, and they were going through a digital migration project. It's as simple as changing their phone handsets from one vendor to another in some respect, about 2,000 phones that they were replacing, so it's kind of interesting. So I've now got a nice new shiny phone on my desk, when I pick up the phone I get very bad quality and stuff like that, and just blame the phone and all that sort of thing. Sometimes that's change, people don't like change, they like all the buttons on their old phone, and sometimes it's real, but in a way, the business impact for that one is, if I'm a customer, a patient, I'm phoning up my doctor for some records, and the phone quality is bad, then I'm not going to have that much confidence that the doctor's going to be able to cope with my ailment that I might have. So it's really important to have quality, and when it's about your health, then it's really important that it's there. >> Awesome. Let's end on some advice that you would give to customers. So you got people trying to do digital transformations, they're trying to pull all these different communication systems together, trying to understand where the exposures are, the performance issues. What advice would you give to people that are struggling with these problems, where should they start, and what should their journey look like? >> In some respects, I think visibility is key, both before pre-migration, during migration and afterwards. So in my example before, having visibility of the performance of the phones before, in this migration issue, and then as I go through the migration, being able to just check that when they deployed the new phones, everything's working. And then of course, once, if there were any problems, so in my example, it was QOS problem. QOS, quality of service, so that's a networking problem and it goes back to, because we're in the network, we're looking at the network, as much as that's the most complex problem to solve, and it's everywhere, QOS problems are everywhere, it's the simplest thing for us to fix. So monitoring during migration, seeing what the behavior of the phones are, during that process, correcting everything quickly, so that the migration project is successful, and then post-migration, business as usual, monitoring, so if there are any problems you can quickly react to it. >> Got it, okay, so you're going to through a business case, you're going to make this part of your digital transformation, you're going to bring together all the stakeholders but I think your point is, if you don't have visibility on what's going on in the network, there are going to be some blind spots that you potentially run into. If you have visibility in the network, you're going to be able to remediate those, and the example you gave of the services company, you're going to be able to achieve your expectations and your ROI results and have confidence that you're going to be around for the next project. So Ray, thanks very much for coming on and sharing with us. And thank you for watching everybody, we'll see you next time. This is Dave Vellante with theCUBE. (bright synth music)

>> From Boston, Massachusetts. It's theCUBE. Covering Actifio 2019 Data Driven. (upbeat techno music) Brought to you by Actifio. >> Hello everyone and welcome to Boston and theCUBE's special coverage of Actifio Data Driven 19. I'm Dave Vellante. Stu Miniman is here. We've got a special guest, John Furrier is in the house from from Palo Alto. Guys, theCUBE we love to go out on the ground, you know, we go deep. We're here at this data theme, right? We were there in the early days, John, you called me up and say, "Get your butt here, we're going to cover the first of Doop World". And since then things have moved quite fast. Everybody thought, you know, Hadoop Big Data was going to take over the world. Nobody even uses that term anymore, right? It's kind of, now it's AI, and machine intelligence, and block chain, and everything else. So what do you think is happening? Did the early Big Data days fail? You know, Frank Genus this morning called it The experimentation phase. >> I mean, I don't really think Frank has a good handle on what's going on in my opinion, cause I think it's not an experimentation, it's real. That was a wave that was essentially the beginning of, not an experimentation, of realization and reality that data, unstructured data in particular was real and relevant. Hadoop looked good off the tee, mill the fairway as we say, but the thing about the Hadoop ecosystem is that validated big data. Every financial institution jumped on it. Everyone who knew anything about data or had data issues or had a lot of data, knew the value. It's just that the apparatus to build via Hadoop was too expensive. In comes Cloud computing at scale, so, as Cloud was accelerating, you look at the Amazon Web Services Revenue Chart you can almost see the D mark where the inflection point is on the hockey stick of Amazon's revenue numbers. And that is the point in time where Hadoop was on the declining of failure. Hortonworks sold the Cloudera. Cloudera's earnings are at an all-time low. A lot of speculation of their entire strategy, and their venture back company went public, but bet the ranch to be the next data warehouse. That wasn't the business model. The data business was a completely new industry, completely being re-transformed, and, far from experimentation, it is real and definitely growing like a weed, but changing because of the underpinning infrastructure dynamics of Cloud Native, Microservices, and that's only going to get highly accelerated and the people who talk about context of industry like Frank, are going to be off. Their predictions will be off because they don't really see the new picture clear enough, in my opinion, >> So, >> I think he's off. >> So it's not so much of a structural change like it was when we went from, you know, mainframes to PCs, it's more of a sort of flow, evolution into this new area which is being driven, powered by new technologies, we talk about block chain machine intelligence and other things. >> Well, I mean, the make up of companies that were building quote, "Big Data Solutions", were trying to build an apparatus or mechanisms to solve big data problems, but none of them actually had the big data problem. None of them were full of data. None of them had a lot of data. The ones that had problems were the financial institutions, the credit card companies, the people who were doing a lot of large scale, um, with Google, Facebook, and some of the hyperscalers. They were actually dealing with the data tsunami themselves, so the practitioners ended up driving it. You guys at Wikibomb, we pointed this out on theCUBE many times, that the value was going to come from the practitioners not the suppliers of so called technology. So, you know, the Clouderas of the world who thought Hadoop would be relevant and growing as a technology were right on one side, on the other side of the coin was the Cloud decimation of that sector. The Cloud computer just completely blew away that Hadoop market because you didn't have to hire a PhD, you didn't have to hire specialty skills to stand up Hadoop clusters. You could actually throw it in the Cloud and get agile quickly, and get value out of data very very quickly. That has been real, it has not been an experiment. There's been new case studies, new companies born, new brands, so it's not an experiment, it is reality, and it's only going to get more real every day. >> And I add of course now you've got, you mentioned Cloudera and Hortenworks, you also got Matt Bar reeling Stu. Let's talk about Actifio. So they coined the term Copy Data Management, they created the category, of course they do a lot of backup, I mean, everybody in this space does a lot of backup. And then you saw the Silicon Valley companies come in. Particularly Cohesity and Rubric, you know, to a lesser extent he got some other guys like Zerto and Durva, but it was really those two companies, Cohesity and Rubric, they raised more money in their D round than Actifio has since inception. But yet Actifio keeps, you know, plodding along, growing, you know, word is they're profitable, you know, they're not like this really sectioned very East Coast versus kind of West Coast mentality. What's your take on what's going on? >> Yeah, so, Dave right, you look at the early days of Actifio and you say great, Copy Data Management, I have all these copies of data, how do I reduce my cost, get greater utilization than I have and leverage the data? I love the title of the show here, Data Driven. You know, we know at the center of digital transformation if you can't become data driven, like the CMO Brian Regan got up on stage talk about that industrialization of data. How am I going along that journey being this, I collected data versus now, you know, data, you know, is the reason that I make decisions, how I make decisions, I get smarter. The Cloud of course is a huge enabler of this, there's all these services that I can instantly access to be able to get greater insight, and move along with that environment, and if you look underneath all of these backup companies, it's really how I can change that data into business value and drive my business, the metadata underneath and all those pieces, not just the wonky storage and technical solutions that make things better, and I get a faster ROI. It's that data at the core of what we do and how do I get that as a business to accelerate. Because we know IT needs to be able to respond back to the business and data needs to be that rocket fuel. >> Is it the case of data haves and data have-nots? I mean, Amazon has data >> I mean, you're right-- >> and Facebook has data. >> We're talking about Actifio, you brought that up, okay, on this segment, on the inside segment, which is cool, they're here at the event, but they have a good opportunity but they also, they got some challenges. I mean, the thing about Actifio is, to my earlier point, which side of the wave are they on? Are they out too much out front with virtualization and Amazon, the Cloud will take them away, or are they riding the Cloud wave, making that an enabler? And I think what really I like about Actifio is because they have a lot of virtualization capabilities, the question is can they scale that Stu, to containers and microservices, because, the real opportunity in this market, in my opinion, is going to build on the virtualization trend, and make container aware, microservices capabilities because if they don't, then that would be a tell sign. Now either way it's a hot M&A market right now, so I think being in the market, horse on the track as you say. You look at the tableau sales force deal monster numbers we are in clearly a hot IPO market and a major roll up market on the M&A side. I think clearly there's two types of companies, old and new, and that is really what people are looking at, are they part of the old guard, are they the new guard. So, you know, this to me is going to be a tell sign of what they do next, can they make the data driven value proposition, you articulated Stu, actually a reality It's going to come from the technology underneath. >> Well I think it's a really interesting point you're making because, Stu as you probably know, that Amazon announced the Amazon backup service right, and you talked about the backup guys and they're like, "Ah yeah it's backup, but it really doesn't do recovery, it's really not that robust". It's part of me says, "Uh oh"... >> Watch out. >> You better move fast", because Amazon has stated, "Hey if you don't move fast we're going to just keep gobbling", and you've seen Amazon do this. What are your thoughts on that? Can these specialists, can they survive, John's talking about M&A. Can the market support all these guys along with the big, you know, traditional guys like Veritas, and Dell EMC, and IBM and Combol? >> Right, well so Actifio started very much in the data center. They were before this Could wave really took off. It's really only in the last year that they've been sassifying their product. So the question is, does that underlying IP, which wasn't tied to hardware, but, you know, sat at really more of, you know, reminded us of that storage virtualization battles that we talked about for years, Dave, but now they are going in the Cloud. They've got all the partnerships in the Cloud, but they are competing against those new vendors that you talked about like Cohesity and Rubric out there, and there's big money chasing this environment. So, you know, I want to talk to the customers here and find out, you know, where they are using them, and especially some of those first customers using this--. >> Well they clearly need a Cloud play cause that's clearly where the action is. But if you look at what's going on with Amazon, Azure, and Google you see a lot of on premises, Stu, because that's where the customers are. So just because the customers are currently not migrating their existing workloads to the Cloud doesn't mean it's not going to happen. So I think there's an opportunity for any company like Actifio, who may or may not be on the curve on the tech side, one little misfire on a tech bet could cripple the company and also make the company. There's a lot of high risk, reward ratio. How they handle containers. How they build on virtualizations. Virtualization going to to be part of the future with Cloud. These are the kind of the dynamics that are going to be in play, and they got some time on their hands because the on premises growth is because the clients are trying to figure out what to do and they're not going to be migrating, lifting, and shifting workloads all off to the Cloud. New will be Cloud based, but enterprises have proven why we are in multi-Cloud and hybrid-Cloud conversation, that... The enterprise on premises is not going away anytime soon. >> I want to ask you guys, John you specifically, about this sort of new Silicon Valley growth model and how companies are achieving escape velocity. When you and I made our first trip to Barcelona, I was having dinner with David Scott who was the CEO of 3PAR and he said to me, When I came to 3PAR the board said, "Hey we're willing to invest 30 million dollars in this company". And David Scott said to them, "I need way more, I need 80 million dollars". Today 80 million dollars is nothing. You saw, you know, Pure Storage hit escape velocity, was just throwing money, and growing at the problem. You're seeing Cohesity-- >> Well you can debate that. I mean, If you have to build a rocket ship, hit critical mass and you want to fund that, you're going to to need an enterprise. However, there's arguments on the south side that you can actually get fly wheel effect going early with less capital. So again, that's 3PAR-- >> But so that's my point. >> Well so that's 3PAR, that was 2009. >> So, yeah that was early days so that's ancient history. But software is generally supposed to be a capital efficient market, yet these companies are raising many hundreds and hundreds of millions, you know, half a billion dollar raises and they are putting it largely in promotion. Is that the new model, is that sustainable, in your view? >> Well I think you're conflating capital market dynamics with viable companies to invest in. I think there's a robust seed in series A market but the series A market and Silicon Valley is you know, 15 to 25 million, it used to be 3 to 5. So the dynamics are changing on funding. There's just not enough companies, horses on the track, to deploy capital at tranches of 30, 50, 80 million. So the capital markets are clearly going to have the money available so it's a market for the startups and the broke companies. That's separate from actually winning. So you've got slacks going public this weeks, you have other companies who have built business on a sass fly wheel, and then everything else is gravy in terms of the go to market, they got a couple hundred million. I think slack got close to a billion dollars in cash that they've raised. So they're flooded with cash, they'll never spend it all. So there are some companies that can achieve success like that. Others have to buy market share, they got to push and build out a sales force, and it's going to be a function of the role of customer, customization, specialism, and whatnot. But with AI machine leaning there's more efficiencies coming in so I think the modern company can do more with less. >> What do you think of the ride sharing on IPOs, Uber and Lift, do you abol? Do you like 'em or do you think it's just, they're losing too money and can't sustain it? >> I was thinking about that this morning after looking at the article in the Wall Street Journal in our coverage on Silicon angle. You look at Zoom communications, I like models that actually can take a simple concept and an existing mature market and disrupt it by being Cloud efficient and completely sass and data driven. That is an example of success. That to me, Zoom Communications and Zscaler, another company that we talk to, these are companies that were built with a specific value proposition that made the product and they were targeting mature markets with leaders in it. Video conferencing, Webex, Citrix, Zoom came out of nowhere, optimized on simple value proposition, used Cloud scale and data, and crushed it. Uber, Lift, little bit different issue. They're losing money but I would bet on the long term that that is going to be the used case for how people will have transportation. I think that's the long game and I think that without regulatory kind of pressure, without, there's regulatory issues that's really the big risk. But I believe that Uber and Lift absolutely will be long brands and just like Facebook was early on, although they threw off a lot of cash, those guys are building for penetration, and that's where the funding matters. Penetration is critical. Now they're the standard, and people really don't take taxis anymore, but they're really using the ride sharing. And you get the scooters, you get the bikes, they're all sequencing into these adjacent markets which drains more cash but builds the brand, builds the footprint. >> Well that's what I want to ask you. So people compare the early Uber, Lift, Taxi, Ride sharing to Amazon selling books, but there's all these other adjacencies. You have a thought on this? >> Well, just, you know, right, Uber Eats is a huge opportunity for that environment and autonomous vehicles everybody talks about, but it's still quite a ways out. So there are a lot of different- >> Scooters are the same, we're in San Diego, there are 8 gazillion scooters. >> San Diego had fun, you know, going around on their electronic scooters, boy, talk about the gig economy, they pay people at the night, to like go pay by the recharge you do on that, what is the future of work, >> Yeah, that's a great point. >> and how can we have that-- >> Uber going to look a lot like Amazon. You subsidize the front end retail side of the business, but look at the data that they throw up. Uber's data that they're gathering on, not only customer behavior, but just mapping services, 3-D mapping is going to be huge, so you've got these cars that are essentially bots on the road, providing massive mapping and traffic analysis. So you're going to start to see data driven, like Actifio slogan here, be a big part of all design decisions and value proposition from any company out there. And if they're not data driven I think they're going to be toast. >> Probably could because there's that data and that machine learning underneath, that can optimize, you know, where the people are, how I use the system, such a huge wave that we're watching. >> How about one last topic which is heavily data driven, it's Facebook. Facebook is obviously a data driven company, the Facebook crypto play, I love it, I love Facebook. I'm a bull on Facebook, I think it's been beat up. I think, two billion users is hard to replicate, but what's your thoughts on their crypto play? >> Well it's kind of a middle finger to the United States of America but it's a great catalyst for the international market because crypto needed a whale to come in and bring all those users in. Bad timing, in my mind, for Facebook, because given all the anti-trust and regulatory conversations, what better way to show your threat to the world order when you say we're going to run a banking system with a collection of international companies. I think the US is going to look at this and say, "Oh my God! They can't even be trusted to handle personal information and we're going to now let them run a banking system? Run monetary, basically World Bank equivalent infrastructure?" No frickin way! I think this is going to to be a major road to home. I think Facebook has to really make this an ecosystem play if they want to make it work, that's their telegraphic move they're saying, "Hey we want to do for the community but we got our own wallet and we got our own network". But they bring a lot to the table so it's going to be a really interesting dynamic to see the coalescing around Facebook because they could make the market. Look what Instagram did to Snapchat. They literally killed the company, took all their users. That is what's going to happen in the digital money economy when Facebook brings billions of users user experience with money. What happened with Snapchat with Instagram is going to happen to the World Bank if this continues. >> Where do you stand on the government breaking up big tech? >> So Dave, you know, you look in these companies, it's not easy to pull those apart. I don't think our government understands how most of big tech works. You know, take Amazon and AWS, that's one company underneath it. You know, Facebook, Microsoft. You know, Microsoft went through all these issues. Question Dave, we've had lots of debates on Twitter you know, are they breaking the law, are they not doing trust? I have some trust issues with Facebook myself, but most of the big companies up there I don't think the anti-trust kicks in, I don't think it makes sense to pull them apart. >> Stu, the Facebook story and the YouTube story are simply this, they have been hiding under the platform rules, of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and they are an editing platform so you can't sue them. Okay, once they become a publisher they could be sued. Just like CNN, Fox News, and everybody else. And we're publishers. So they've been hiding behind the platform. That gig is up. They're going to have to address are you a platform or are you a publisher? You're making editing decisions around what users can see with software, you are essentially editing the feed, that is a publisher role, with that becomes responsibility, and then obviously regulartory. >> Well Facebook is conflicted right now. They're trying to figure out which side of the fence to go on. >> No no no! They want one side! The platform side! They're make billions of dollars! >> Yeah but so they're making decisions about you know, which content to show and whether they monetize it. And when it's controversial content, they'll turn down the ads a little bit but they won't completely eliminate it sometimes. >> So, Dave, the only thing that the partisans in politics seem to agree on though is that big tech has too much power. You know, What's your take on that? >> Well so I think that if they are breaking the law then they should be moderated. But I don't think the answer is to go hard after Elizabeth Warren. Hard after them and break them up. I think you got to start with okay, because you break these companies up what's going to happen is they're going to be worth more, it's going to be AT&T all over again. >> While you guys were at Sysco Live, we covered this at Amazon Web Service and Public Sector Summit. The real issue in government, Stu, is there's too much tech for bad on the PR side, and there's not enough tech for good. Tech is not bad, tech is good. There's not enough promotion around the apps around there. There's real venture funds being created to promote tech for good. That's going to where the tide will turn. When does the tech industry start doing good stuff, not bad stuff. >> All right we've got to wrap. John, thanks for sitting in. Thank you for watching. Be right back, we're here at Actifio Data Driven 2019. From Boston this is theCUBE, be right back. (upbeat techno music)

>> Live from Atlanta, Georgia, it's theCUBE covering Citrix Synergy Atlanta 2019. Brought to you by Citrix. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend. Day two of theCUBE's coverage of Citrix Synergy 2019 from Atlanta, Georgia. One of the cool things that Citrix does is recognize some of their most outstanding customers and we're very pleased to welcome one of their Innovation Award nominees, from Schroders, Paul Baird, Global Head of Communications IT. Paul, welcome to theCUBE. >> Oh, thank you very much. Thank you for having me today. >> So, you and I were talking off-camera and I was mentioning this to Tim Minahan yesterday, their CMO, that the way that Citrix is doing their Innovation Awards program is a bit like Britain's Got Talent, American Idol, where they narrow down finalists and then the public gets to vote and they've created a very cool video that describes a little bit about just the tip of the iceberg about what you guys are doing. But tell our audience a little bit about Schroders and what it is that you're doing with Citrix to re-transform the employee experience. >> Okay, so Schroders are a financial services company. We're based in London although we've got offices in 27 countries globally. We deal with asset and wealth management, and we've been around for over 200 years. Over the past couple of years, we've started collapsing our London office footprint from multiple, multiple little small disparate offices into two large buildings within London. What we tried to do was really put technology on the forefront of everything that we did for that, whether or not it was IOT right the way through to our end user desktop experience and just creating the best digital experience for our users that we possibly could. >> Excellent. >> Hey, can you talk to us about how Citrix has helped empower that move to the future of work there? >> So, Citrix's VDI solution was key to everything. It was the fundamental building block where our desktop came into play and then we layered the top of our applications and our access to data and one of the fantastic things as well was our solution is called S3, which is sort of just any type, any place and from any device. And it really empowered us to be able to fulfill that. It wasn't an empty messenger statement. It really was what we believed, so people can access their desktop from iPads, from their computers they have in the house. Whether or not they're in one of our offices globally, you can access Windows desktop from your iPhone, although my eyesight tends not to be good enough for that, but it really did form that real linchpin of what we were doing. >> So, you mentioned that Schroders has been around for a couple of hundred years, so when I hear that, I think, wow, there's a lot of history. There's a lot of culture. Cultural transformation is hard to do, but it's also a catalyst. It's really essential for a business like Schroders to digitally transform. As consumers, we have these devices, multiple devices, I think yesterday, they mentioned in some stats that were really kind of staggering, that in the next few years, there will be 65 billion connected devices and each person's going to have around eight connected devices, so we have this experience with devices, we have our expectations, but you also have a culture that's pretty steeped in history at Schroders. How has Citrix been an enabler of evolving that culture as the workforce now is so distributed, but also so sort of demanding of these, let's have the same experience that I have in my personal life that I can have at work. >> I think one of the, the big pushes that we tried to do was to enable collaboration for absolutely everyone in the company. Citrix again helped us with that because we have an actual desk environment. We have flexible working and fundamentally, what we needed to do is not impinge on anyone's ability to work and to collaborate. Everyone needed to be able to access their data, their applications, their services, from wherever they were in order to properly digitally collaborate with each and every one of their colleagues. Otherwise, we'd just have done our users a disservice. It was a big change. We took the decision as well to roll out our actual desktop environment to our existing users in our old offices prior to moving in, which proved to be an absolute godsend because moving from an office for some people who'd been there for years and years, moving into new offices is a sea change. It's a difference to people's working environment, and what we endeavored to do was to give them the new technology solutions that we came up with prior to the move so that all that actually changed was the desk and the furniture and the view-- >> Smart. >> Was a lot better, but ultimately, they'd been used to the technology. We had ironed out an awful lot of problems, here and there just with the scale of deployment and things, and these people were in and working and ready to roll within minutes of actually walking in the new building. >> So, talk to us about the competitive landscape. 200 years of wealth management, you have established clients, but you're always looking to expand and get into, let's call it new money. Talk to us about the customer experience, how Citrix has enabled you to become hopefully a little bit more agile in meeting the demands of wealth management clients. They have high expectations. They have traditions they like to follow. I'm a little old school. I still like to go physically into the bank, see a person whereas my wife, you know what, if she can just do all her banking and wealth management mobile, she doesn't have to see a person at all. So, talk about kind of that range of clients that you serve. >> So, we have a variety of clients. We have a variety of clients globally. Really, with this solution that we put forward, being able to meet those client demands almost instantly in terms of accessing their data, accessing CRM tools, accessing whatever systems we needed to do, was essential with that. The issue, not the issue, the real advantage that Citrix gave us in terms of the solution as well, was that we were able to fulfill those client's needs from wherever our dealers were, wherever our fund managers were, wherever our sales force were, if that answers the question. >> Yeah, and you know, in any industry, as consumers of anything, we have choice, right? Whether it's your ISP or a retailer. If you don't, if you're not having a good experience as a consumer of that product or service, you can easily turn. I'm going to find somewhere else that's going to meet that need and I imagine that was part of the concern for Schroders was that yes, we may have, as he said, some very longstanding clients, but if we're not able to meet a range of their expectations, then they have choice to go to one of your competitors. Talk to us about how enabling the employee experience that you have done, employees can access their desktops seamlessly from switching devices if they're going from their desk into a conference room, their desktop essentially virtually follows them. How has that been an enabler of retaining clients and maybe even attracting new clients? >> I think having the ability to collaborate with our clients is key to everything that we do. Having to have that almost seamless workflow of I can sit at a desk, I can come and sit beside you at your desk, I can log in to my machine, I can show you what I'm working on, I can have an ad hoc meeting. We can pool together because fundamentally, our biggest strength as a company is our people, and actually pushing that forward and making those people work better and in a more collaborative way together, whether it's in a meeting room with clients on a video conference call and people still having access to their desktop without all the messy meetings that everyone's been in where people are trying to find cables and leads and presentations, right down to extending the solution across so that people on their mobile devices could still access that data and service, the needs of the customer and ultimately, our staff working better together gave us a better user experience and a better customer experience. >> So essentially, were you able to create an experience for the employees that was transparent to your customers? >> Yes, I believe so. I don't think our customers noticed anything, but benefit coming through. I think the new head office building has over 112 meeting rooms and they're booked morning, noon, and night and people are on client calls. People are interacting with our customers, interacting with other companies that we've acquired. They're accessing other customers' data, and they're able to fulfill all the needs of the job. >> So Paul, talk to us about the legacy of combining legacy IT, traditional services with, and systems with this new frontward-facing capabilities. You have mobile apps, but then as a 200-year-old company, I'm sure you guys have some legacy technology sitting around. Citrix has, and other companies such as SAP, have talked about what comes after digital transformation, so we've given employees mobile devices. We're giving them new applications, ways to access accounts on the go. The next level is the employee experience, the customer experience. From yesterday's keynote, when they talked about automation, the ability to use Citrix to automate workflows and make the marketer's job easier, what do you see potential advantages in your industry to being able to automate things that eat up that 1/5 of your work week? What do you think some of the innovations that will come out of your business as a result? >> That's a very good question. I think yesterday's keynote was fascinating, definitely resonated, the idea of everyone having almost archeological IT, and just layers and layers and everyone has slightly older systems. Everyone has systems that are essential to their business. I think moving forward, having some essential tier that people access so that all their day-to-day repetitive tasks just become simpler and it just becomes a whole list of text boxes to run through is an absolute godsend. As a manager myself, I spend a significant amount of time going through HR approvals and going through purchase requests and doing this and that. That constant jump from system to system to system, anything that can actually be done to improve that flow is beneficial to all of us. >> They talked about their aim yesterday, Citrix did, about being able to streamline this employee experience with intelligence. That they're aiming to give back users one whole day a week which Keith and I were saying, that's two months a year, absolutely I would sign up for that. They also talked yesterday about historically, enterprise software being designed for power users, which only makes up 1% of the user base. How have, you mentioned, I like how you talked about that, in terms of the cultural shift, not just to a brand new facility in London, but we started them on this new software powered by Citrix first, so that by the time they got to this new location, from a change perspective, it was a lot more manageable, but as it relates to software being designed now by Citrix for the general users, what was adoption like across Schroders once you rolled out this new solution? Was it something that just went, oh, okay, I get it. >> So the adoption was very carefully managed. We're big believers in having user change champions. They were consulted all the way through it. We did a whole piece of work to determine which departments went first and move forward with them. We tried to move at pace because as we talked about before, one of the big benefits that we had with the solution was actually being able to deploy the solution to our users before we move into the new office, so that we could actually make this a more seamless transition for something that's a big thing for a lot of people, you know, but moving geography is you know, people don't like change, you know. And being able to do that and roll that across with a constant feedback loop that we were getting from our users and those change champions was really essential to the success. >> So talking about change champions, you're in the business of IT communications. Getting out kind of the message for change, making sure that users understand the changes that are taking place whether systems, environment, et cetera and that they adopt it, so getting early champions on board. One of the challenges I found when I managed IT communications is that getting people to read past the first line of a email, saying that there's change coming, people don't like change and you send a email about change, they're not going to read it. So, what have been some of the effective ways that you've been able to communicate and prepare people for change? >> It's really important because I agree entirely. That whole email delivery of information really doesn't work. >> Right. >> And people put it just down a spam and you know, they-- >> Like, they could put corporate email in the spam folder. They put IT communications there. >> And what we did is we did everything from poster campaigns, there was leaflet campaigns, and it wasn't just global technology. We worked with all areas of the program who were pushing forward to get our staff in our new head office, so there was road shows in our old canteen. They could come in for a whole week at one point and log in to the new technology and we had exact mock ups of what the new desks were going to look like and that had really, really positive benefits. We had videos behind our Genius bars that we had set up so that people, almost wherever they went, were actually seeing what that new technology generally was going to look like for them as well, and that really gave us a lot of benefits as well because people became more engaged, they understood where we were going, it wasn't just, we're going to send an email and you're going to come into work on a Monday morning and everything's changed in front of me and what just happened, you know, so. >> Very methodical, very strategic rollout, what you did, which is really impressive, but it also sounds like from your perspective as the head of Global IT Communications, that you were liaising with the other heads of other functions. This was a business imperative. This wasn't just being driven by IT. That's what it sounds like, is that correct? >> Yeah, and we have become very, very collaborative. My role in terms of communications, I actually run networks and communications. It's not traditional communications and marketing, but everyone pooled together. Everyone worked together, both from right the way across global technology. We tried to remove as many silos as we found you know, and we really did succeed in that. And we really engaged with our user communities as well, which I think was pivotal to the success as well. And even I'm sure you've seen in the video that Citrix did with us, it's not just technology people that are involved in our video. We've got our global head of human resources, who is a huge, big champion of the solution that we've actually deployed and I think that really sets us apart as well. >> I think so too. I think what you guys are doing for the employee experience is very differentiating, the strategic approach within the organization, not just to get the right decision makers together, but also how you've really thoughtfully rolled this out for users, for adoption, is pretty unique. So we congratulate Schroders on being an Innovation Award nominee. You can vote, I think it's just go to citrix.com or the Synergy website. You can vote and we wish you the best of luck as the winner is revealed tomorrow. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks for your time, Paul. We appreciate it. >> No worries at all, thank you. >> For Keith Townsend, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, live from Citrix Synergy 2019. Thanks for watching. (techno beat)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE Covering Informatica World 2019 Brought to you by Informatica. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Informatica World 2019 here in Las Vegas. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, John Furrier. We are joined by Ariel Kelman. He is the VP, Worldwide Marketing at AWS. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks so much for having me on today. >> So let's start out just at ten thousand feet and talk a little bit about what you're seeing as the major cloud and AI trends and what your customers are telling you. >> Yeah, so I mean, clearly, machine learning and AI is really the forefront of a lot of discussions in enterprise IT and there's massive interest but it's still really early. And one of the things that we're seeing companies really focused on now is just getting all their data ready to do the machine learning training. And as opposed to also, in addition I mean, training up all their people to be able to use these new skills. But we're seeing tons of interest, it's still very early, but you know one of the reasons here at Informatica World is that getting all the data imported and ready is, you know, it's almost doubled or tripled in importance as it was when people were just trying to do analytics. Now they're doing machine learning as well. You know, we're seeing huge interest in that. >> I want to get into some of the cloud trends with your business, but first, what's the relationship with Informatica, and you know we see them certainly at re:Invent. Why are you here? Was there an announcement? What's the big story? >> I mean, we've been working together for a long time and it's very complementary products and number varies. I think the relationship really started deepening when we released Redshift in 2013, and having so many customers that wanted to get data into the cloud to do data we're housing, we're already using Informatica in, to help get the data loaded and cleansed and so really they're one of the great partners that's fueling moving data into the cloud and helping our customers be more successful with Redshift. >> Yeah, one of the things I really admire about you guys is that you're very customer centric. We've been following Amazon as you know since their, actually second reinvent, Cube's been there every time, and just watching the growth, you know, Cloud certainly has been a power source for innovation, SAS companies that are born in the cloud have exponentially scaled faster than most enterprises because they use data. And so data's been a heart of all the successful SAS businesses, that's why start ups gravitated to the Cloud right away. But now that you guys got enterprise adoption, you guys have been customer centric and as you listen to customers, what are you guys hearing from that? Because the data on premises, you've got more compliance, you've got more regulation, you've got-- news today-- more privacy and now you've got regions, countries with different laws. So the complexity around even just regulatory, nevermind tech complexity, how are you guys helping customers when they say, you know what, I want to get to the cloud, love Amazon, love the cloud, but I've got my, I've got to clean up my on param house. >> Yeah, I would say like a lot, if you look at a lot of the professional services work that we do, a lot of it is around getting the company prepared and organized with all their data before they move to the cloud: segmenting it, understanding the different security regulatory requirements, coming up with a plan of what they need, what data they're going to maybe abstract up, before they load it, and there's a lot of work there. And, you know, we've been focused on trying to help customers.. >> And is there a part in you're helping migrate to the cloud, is that.. >> Yeah, there's technology pieces, companies like Informatica helping to extract and transform and load the data and on data governance policies. But then also, for a lot of our systems integrator partners, Cognizant, Accenture, Deloitte-- they're very involved in these projects. There's a lot of work that goes on; a lot of people don't talk about just before you can even start doing the machine learning, and a lot of that's getting your data ready. >> So how, what are some of the best practices that have emerged in working with companies that, as you said, there's a lot of pre-work that needs to be done and they need to be very thoughtful about about sort of getting their data sorted. >> Well I think the number one thing that I see and I recommend is to actually first take a step back from the data and to focus on what are the business requirements of, what questions are you trying to answer, let's say with machine learning, or with data science advanced analytics, and then back out the data from that. What we see a lot of, you know companies sometimes will have it be a data science driven project. Okay, here's all the data that we have, let's put it in one place, when you may not be spending time proportionate to the value of the data. And so that's one of the key things that we see, and to come up-- just come up with a strong plan around what answers you're, what business questions you're trying to answer. >> On the growth of Amazon, you guys certainly have had great record numbers, growth, even in the double digit kind of growth you're seeing on top of your baseline has been phenomenal. Clearly number one on the cloud. Enterprise has been a big focus. I noticed that on the NHL, your logo's on the ice during the playoffs; you've got the Statcast. You guys are creating a lot of aware-- I see a lot of billboards everywhere, a lot of TV ads. Is that part of the strategy is to get you guys more brand awareness? What's the.. >> We're trying, you know, it's part of our overall brand awareness strategy. What we're trying to do is to help, we're trying to communicate to the world how our customers are being successful using our technology, specifically machine learning and AI. It's one of these things where so many companies want to do it but they say, well, what am I supposed to use it for? And so, you know, one of, if you dumb down what marketing is at AWS, it's inspiring people about what they can run in the cloud with AWS, what use cases they should consider us for, and then we spend a lot of energy giving them the technical education and enablement so they can be successful using our products. At the end of the day, we make money when our customers are successful using our products. >> One of the hot products was SageMaker, we see in that group, AI's gone mainstream. That's a great tail wind for you guys because it kind of encapsulates or kind of doesn't have to get all nerdy about cloud, you know, infrastructure and SAS. AI kind of speaks to many people. It's one of the hottest curriculums and topics in the world. >> Yeah, and with SageMaker, we're trying to address a problem that we see in most of our customers where the everyday developer is not, does not have expertise in machine learning. They want to learn it, so we think that anything we can do to make it easier for every developer to ramp up on machine learning the better. So that's why we came up with SageMaker as a platform to really make all three stages of machine learning easier: getting your data prepared for training, training in optimized models, and then running inference to make the predictions and incorporate that into people's applications. >> One of the themes that's really emerging in this conversation is the need to make sure developers are ready and that your people are skilled up and know what they need to know. How are, how is AWS thinking about the skills gap, and what are you doing to remedy it? >> Yeah, a couple things. I mean, we're really, like a lot of things we do, we'll say what are all the ways we can attack the problem and let's try and help. So, we have free training that we've been creating online. We've been partnering with large online training firms like Udacity and Coursera. We have an ML solutions lab that help companies prototype, we have a pretty significant professional services team, and then we're working with all of out systems integrators partners to build up their machine learning practices. It's a new area for a lot of them and we've been pushing them to add more people so they can help their customers. >> Talk about the conferences, you have re:Invent, the CORE conference, we've been theCUBE there. We've just also covered London, Amazon's Web Services summit, and 22,000 registered, 14,000 showed up. Got huge global reach now. How do you keep up with this? I mean it's a... >> Well we're trying to help our customers keep up with all the technology. I mean, really, we have about, maybe 25 or so of these summits around the world-- usually around two days, several thousand people, free conferences. And what we're trying to do is >> They're free? >> The summits are free and it's like, we introduce so much new technology, new services, deeper functionality within our exiting services, and our customers are very hungry to learn the latest best practices and how they can use these, and so we're trying to be in all the major areas to come in and provide deep educational content to help our customers be more successful. >> And re:Invent's coming around the corner. Any themes there early on, numbers wise? Last year you had, again, record numbers. I mean at some point, is Vegas too small >> Yeah, we had over 50,000 people. We're going to have even more, and we've been expanding to more and more locations around Las Vegas and you know we're going to keep growing. There's a lot of demand. I mean, we want to be able to provide the re:Invent experience for as many people as want to attend. >> What's the biggest skill set, you know the folks graduating this month, my daughter's graduating from Cal Berkeley, and a lot of others are graduating >> Congratulations >> high school. Everyone wants to either jump into some sort of data related field, doesn't have to be computer science, those numbers are up. What's your view of skill sets that are needed right now that weren't in curriculum, or what pieces of curriculum should people be learning to be successful if machine learning continues to grow from helping videos surface to collecting customer data. Machine learning's going to be feeding the AI applications and SAS businesses. >> Yeah, I mean look, you just forget about machine learning, you go to a higher level. There's not enough good developers. I mean, we're in a world now where any enterprise that is going to be successful is going to have their own software developers. They're going to be writing their own software. That's not how the world was 15 years ago. But if you're a large corporation and you're outsourcing your technology, you're going to get disrupted by someone else who does believe in custom software and developers. So the demand for really good software engineers, I mean we deal with all the time, we're hiring. It is always going to outstrip supply. And so, for young people, I would encourage them to start coding and to not be over reliant on the university curriculums, which don't always keep pace with, you know, with the latest trends. >> And you guys got a ton of material online too, you can always go to your site. Okay, on the next question around, as someone figures out, okay, enterprise versus pure SAS, you guys have proven with the Cloud that start ups can grow very fast and then the list goes on: AirBnB, Pinterest, Zoom Communications, disrupting existing big, mature markets by having access to the data. So how do you talk about customers when you say, hey, you know, I want to be like a SAS company, like a consumer company, leverage data, but I've got a lot of stuff on premise. So how do I not make that data constrained? How do you guys feel about that conversation because that seems to be the top conversation here, is you know, it's not to say be consumer, it's consumer-like. Leveraging data, cause if data's not into AI, there's no, AI doesn't work, right? So >> Right >> It can't be constrained by anything. >> Well, you know, you talk to all these companies and at first they don't even know what they don't know in terms of what is that data? And where is it? And what are the pieces that are important? And so, you know, we encourage people to do a good amount of strategy work before they even start to move bits up to the cloud. And of course, then we have a lot of ways we can help them, from our Snowball machines that they can plug in, all the way to our Snowmobile, which is the semi truck that you can drive up to your data center and offload very large amounts of data and drive it over to our data centers. >> One of the things that is trending-- we had Ali from Data Bricks talk about, he absolutely believes a lot of the same philosophies you guys do-- data in the cloud. And one of his arguments was is that there's a lot of data sets in these marketplaces now where you can really leverage other people's data, and we see that on cybersecurity where people are starting to share data, and Cloud is a better model for that than trying to ship drives around, and there's a time for Snowball, I get that, and Snowmobile, the big trucks for large ingestion into the cloud, but the enterprise, this is a new phenomenon. No one really shared a lot in the old days. This is a new dynamic. Talk about that, is it-- >> I mean, sharing, selling, monetizing data. If there's something that is important, there will be a market for it. And I think we're seeing that just the hunger, everything from enterprises to startups, that want more data, whether it's for machine learning to train their models, or it's just to run analytics and compare against their data sets. So I think the commercial opportunity is pretty large. >> I think you're right on that. I think that's a great insight. I mean, no one ever thought about data as a service from our data set standpoint, 'cause data sets feed machine learning. All right, so let's do, give the plug on what's going on with AWS. What's new, what's on your plate, what's notable. I mean I love the NHL, I couldn't resist that plug for you being a hockey fan. But what's new in your world? >> Um, you know, we're, we're in early planning stages on our re:Invent conference, our engineers are hard at work on a lot of new technology that we're going to have ready between now and our re:Invent show. You know, also we're, my team's been doing a lot of work with the sports organizations. We've had some interesting machine learning work with major league baseball. They rolled out this year a new machine learning model to do stolen base predictions. So, you can see on some of the broadcasts, as a runner goes past first base, we'll have a ticker that will show what the probability is that they'll be successful stealing second base if they choose to run. Trying to make a little more entertaining all those scenes we've seen in the past of the pitcher throwing the ball back to first, trying to use AI machine leaning to give a little bit more insight into what's going on. >> And that's the Statcast. Part of that's the Statcast >> That's Statcast, yeah >> And you got anything new coming around that besides that new.. >> Yeah, I think that yeah, major league baseball is hard at work on some new models that I think will be announced fairly soon. >> All right, to wrap up Informatica real quick, an announcement here, news coming I hear. How are you guys working with Informatica in the field? Is there any, can you share more about relationship >> Yeah I mean I think we're going to have an announcement a little bit later today, I mean it's around the subject we've been talking about: making it easier for customers to, you know, be successful moving their data to the Cloud so that they can start to benefit from the agility, the speed and the cost savings of data analytics and machine learning in the Cloud. >> And so when you're working with customers, I mean, because this is the thing about Amazon. It is a famously innovative, cutting edge company, and when you talk about the hunger that you describe, that these customers, isn't it just that they want to be around Amazon and kind of rub shoulders with this really creative, thinking four steps ahead kind of company. I mean how do you let your innovation rub off on these customers? >> I mean there's a couple ways We do, one of the things we've done recently is these innovation workshops. We have this thing we talk about a lot this working backwards process where we force the engineers to write a press release before we'll green light the product because we feel like if you can't clearly articulate the customer benefit, then we probably shouldn't start investing, right? And so we, that's one of the processes that we use to help us innovate better, more effectively and so we've been walk-- we walk customers through this. We have them come, you know there's an international company that I was, part of one of the efforts we did in Palo Alto last year where we had a bunch of their leadership team out for two days of workshops where we worked a bunch of ideas through, through our process. And so we do some of that but the other area is we try and capture area where we think that we've innovated in some interesting way into a service that then customers can use. Like Amazon Connect I think is a good example of it. This is our contact center call routing technology and you know, one of the things Amazon's consumer business is known for is having great customer support, customer service, and they spent a lot of time and energy making sure that calls get routed intelligently to the right people, that you don't sit on hold forever, and so we figure we're probably not the only company that could benefit from that. Kind of like with AWS, when we figure out how to run infrastructure securely and high performance and availability, and so we turn that into a service and it's become a very successful service for us. A lot of companies have similar contact center problems. >> As a customer, I can attest to being on hold a lot. Ariel, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. It's been great talking to you. >> I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thanks for coming out, appreciate it. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for John Furrier. You are watching theCUBE. Stay tuned. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering Informatica World 2019. Brought to you by Informatica. >> Welcome everyone, you are watching theCUBE. We are kicking off a two-day event here at Informatica World 2019 in Las Vegas. I'm your host, and I'm co-hosting along with John Furrier. It's great to have you. Great to be here. >> Great to see you again. >> So, Informatica is really sitting in the sweet spot of a fast-growing area of technology, cloud and big data. I want to ask you a big question. Where is the market? What do you see happening in this sweet spot area? >> Well we're here in Informatica World. I think it's our fourth Cube coverage. We've been following these guys since they've gone private two years ago in depth. Interesting changeover. They went private just like Michael Dell did with Dell Technologies. And then they went public in great performance. We said at that time, if they can go private with the product skills that they have in their senior leadership, they could do well. And they've been on the same trend line, which has been really positive data. Now data is the hottest thing on the planet. This is the theme of the industry. Data is everything. Machine learning needs data. Data feeds machine learning. Machine learning feeds AI. This is a core innovator. Now the challenge is on the enterprise side is that data is structured. It's in all these different databases. So in an enterprise, data's kind of has all these legacy structures and legacy systems. And the cloud for instance. Cloud is where SaaS wins. And SaaS winners like Zoom Communications, Air BNB, you name all those successful cloud data companies. Data's at the heart of their value proposition. And data is unencumbered. There's no restrictions. They use data, data as analysis. They look at customer behavior, AB testing. So data is the heart of innovation. This is Informatica's plan here. CLAIRE is their AI product. Their theme is kind of clever. CLAIRE starts here. And this is really the focus for Informatica. Their opportunity is to be that independent vendor supplier, the Switzerland as it has been called, the neutral third party to bring data together On Premise and Cloud. That's what they're saying. That's their opportunity. The challenges are high. The data business is being regulated. We talk about it last time. You know, privacy, GDPR one-year anniversary, Microsoft's calling for more privacy. As more regulation comes in, that puts more restrictions on data. That requires more software. That creates overhead. Overhead is not good for SaaS business models. And that is where the conflict is. This is the opportunity, and if they can overcome that as a supplier, then they can do well. And data growth is just massive. Cloud, IoT Edge, you name it. Data is the center of the value proposition. >> Well, and we're going to have a lot of great guests on the program this week, in particular we're going to have Sally Jenkins talking about these four customer journeys that the customers are going on. And in fact data governance and privacy is one of the big tenants. So, they are making, they are saying this is our wheelhouse. We can do this. We can help you do this. >> Well, the thing is we're going to ask every guest the question of the week is What's the skill gaps? Because digital transformation although very relevant is only as good as the people and the culture that's behind it. And that's a theme that we hear all throughout our different CUBE events. If people have the culture for it, they could do it. DevOps is another word that has been kicked around. But ultimately if you don't have the people and just machines, it's really going to be a tough balance to strike. You need the machines, you need the data, you need the people. And this is where the challenge is in the industry. I think the skill gaps is a huge problem for digital transformation. It's to me the big blocker in seeing innovation accelerate. So customers are now having that journey. They're starting, they really think about how to architect their enterprise with an On Premise, with a Legacy and Cloud Native with full SaaS. And the companies that can get to a SaaS business model, managing the On-Premise's legacy will have a winning shot at taking new market share or top one down incumbents in leadership positions. >> I'm really excited about this idea. Asking people about the skill gap and where the next generation of jobs are going to be in big data. I saw a statistic, a survey from Google, 94% of IT managers can't find qualified candidates for open Cloud roles. That is-that's astonishing. I also saw an interesting quote from Tim Cook, who recently said that half of Apple's new hires are not going to have a college degree this year. He said when our own founder didn't have one. It kind of really shows you what you can do. >> It's really early. >> You might not need this degree. >> First of all, it's really, first of all I agree that degrees don't really matter. In some cases, old degrees might not apply to the new jobs. I'll give you an example. My daughter just graduated from Cal Berkeley this week. And they had the inaugural class of data, data science, data analytics. For the first time, first graduating class. That's a tell-sign that we're at the early, early stages. But data science can come from anyone. You could be, you know, anthropologist, you could be any any skill. You can solve a problem, you're good at math. You can see the big picture. You're seeing data science really becoming a career. And again, there's just not enough job openings. And data science isn't just for the data jockeys out there who just want to do data. There's cyber security, huge data-driven. Everything is data-driven. The big growth area in the enterprise is the IoT, the Edge. As devices come online for manufacturing to oil rigs to wind farms. The edge computing is a huge thing. And that's a data problem. Everything is a data problem. So this is where the industry is focused I think Informatica was really on it early. And now everyone's jumping in. You got Amazon, Google, Microsoft, the big cloud players, and you got all the existing incumbent enterprise suppliers all putting data at the center-value proposition. You know you got a lot of competition now for Informatica, and they have to make some good moves here. And what I'm going to be looking for here, Rebecca, is how they transform as a company. Because I think that they have to be an integration company. They want to be that Switzerland. They got to integrate to all the clouds. They got to integrate to all the different platforms and environments on the enterprise and create that one operating model. And this is something they say they want to do, and we're going to ask them. >> And you not only called them Switzerland, they've called themselves Switzerland. And so I think that they are. They do want that. They want that for themselves. They want they are having these partnerships with all of the major cloud providers. So, you said this is what you're going to be asking. This is what you're going to be looking for. What is it that you think will set them apart? >> I think ultimately I think Informatica's got a great management team when it comes to product and engineering. One of the things I've been impressed with is they get the product around data. The only thing I think that could be a headwind for them as a challenge is this regulatory environment. I brought that up earlier. I think this could be a challenge and an opportunity, and it could be the difference maker because there's no question that their value proposition or how they're dealing with data management, their deals we're going to hear about with the cloud and all of the new innovation they have with CLAIRE and AI. Certainly that's good. But if you don't have data-feeding machine learning, and the data's hard to get at, and it's regulated, you got clouds with geographies and countries have new regulations. This is a complicated problem. If they could create software to make that easier and create an abstraction layer and use the power of the cloud, I think they could have a winning formula. So to me, that's a killer opportunity. And then making data work for SaaS-oriented business models, On-Premise and in the cloud. >> I think you're absolutely right and we heard Anil Chakravarthy say this today. Data needs the machine learning an AI, AI machine learning need data. And any application of AI and machine learning is only as good as the data that's been collected. So, the other big challenge is what I think is going to be really exciting about for this show is seeing all of these use cases. In industry after industry we are seeing applications of AI and machine learning transforming business models and approaches and leadership and big ideas around these important game-changers in our industry. >> Yeah, one of the things that's interesting I had an interview with in the city of Howie Xu, who's formally VMWare engineer, entrepreneur, sold his company to Zscaler. He's an AI guy, and we talked about the SaaS business model. And one of the things that's key is if you don't have the data feeding the SaaS, it's not going to work, so to me if they could get that data back in to the system quicker with all that regulation, that's going to be a game changer. And I think they got to start thinking how they can show the customer proof points. That's going to be interesting when the customers start adapting in that scale. >> And as we've also said many times on theCUBE the governance is kind of a mess itself. I mean Washington doesn't quite know what to do with this and how to regulate it. How do you think that these technology companies should be working with Washington on this? >> Well that's a loaded question. First of all, I think the government is not the bellwether for technology innovation. In fact, I think innovation is stifled by too much regulation. There's got to have a balance there. One of the things that's positive is in the cyber-security area you see private, public partnerships go on where there's some joint sharing. I think cloud is going to be a catalyst. We're going to have the VP of marketing from Amazon web services on, I'm going to ask him that direct question. This is where the action is. So I think this notion of collaboration the enterprise and cloud players is going to be key because if you look at like just how search engines used to work back in the old days, if it was not encumbered by all this legacy infrastructure in the enterprise, it works great. The more you add complexity to things, the more you need software. The more you need software, you need horsepower to compute. You need more storage. So all these things are creating a different environment than it was just three years ago. So, you know can they adjust, can the industry shape itself out? I think the industry needs to lead here, not the government. >> What about the idea of Informatica working together with customers and making sure that they are in fact deriving value? Because I mean I think that's the other thing is that all of these companies know they need to have an AI strategy, they need to be using more machine learning. It's very complicated as you said. But then there's this question of am I really going to see a return of investment on this? >> Well, I think Informatica can do a good job working with cloud architecture and looking at because you got again IoT edge is coming around the corner. But if they can nail the architecture On-Premises and Cloud, that is a great start. The second thing that Informatica can help customers at, and this is a customer challenge, is where do you store the data? Because moving data around is very expensive. So this scenario is where you want it all on the cloud. This scenario is where you want it all On Premise. And this scenario is where you want it on both locations. And then with the edge, you want to move data I mean compute to where the data is. So, data becomes a very critical piece of the overall architecture and whoever can build this operating system's mindset will have a winning formula, and again being neutral is a critical strategy. And the more Informatica can help enterprise be more like consumer companies, the better. If you look at Slack for instance, it's an IPO candidate coming out very popular. It's just a chat kind of message board app. What made Slack successful is that they built connectors and APIs into all different tools. If Informatica could do that, that would be a winning formula because they want to be data brokering, they want to be data connecting, and they want to feed the applications and machine learning data. If they can't get data to the machine learning and AI, the AI will not be sufficient. And that will be a problem. >> Well, this is all the things we are going to be talking about over these next two days. John, I look forward to it. I'm Rebecca Knight, you are watching theCUBE. (lighthearted techno music)

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation >> run. Welcome to this cube conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I have remote. Sarah Varney is the chief marketing officer Tulio Company. We've covered for many, many years one of the most successful A p I now public company. Um, Sarah, welcome to the Cube competition. Good to see you remotely. You're in San Francisco? Were in Palo Alto. Um, thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, thanks so much for having me. >> So you guys have been really a powerhouse company? Twilio. We've been following the rise and success. It just seems just success that the success of success go public stock keeps growing. Big acquisition would send grid for $2,000,000,000 in October. We covered that, but really kind of reading the tea leaves and connecting the dots. It's really the continued evolution of Cloud sas, where AP eyes are becoming Maur and Maur the lingua franca for the next generation way. That's coming, but is going into a whole nother direction. You guys are a big part of that. You're the chief marketing officer. It's >> a hard >> story to tell because it's it's kind of under the hood nerdy, but it's also really big business benefits. So as the c m o. How do you get your arms around that you've been in the business for a while? Take him in to explain the strategy around how you're handling. That's Willie. Oh, Marketing. >> Sure, Yeah. I mean, I do. I agree that, uh, you know, Tulio is >> very much an ingredient brand, but at the same time, everyone is interacting with with in some cheaper form, probably every day, whether or not they realize it or not. If you're getting an appointment reminder from your >> dentist's confirming an appointment, that's probably Tulio behind the scenes, >> if you are communicating with your uber driver to say that you are headed outside that is normally powered by Coolio technology. So even though it might be, ah, technology that exists lower in the stack and something you might not physically see, it is very much something that people everywhere getting every day and you know our goal really is to Leo is to make sure that we're helping companies across the globe from all different types of industries, of all shapes and sizes. to bridge the communication gap with their customers. You know, every day there's a new channel to keep up to speed with. There's a new way that people are customers that are demanding Thio be communicated with. And we want companies to be out in front of that s O that you know, they can connect with their customers on any channel, if that's what's up. If that's SMS. If that's voice, if that's even fax, we want to make that ah possibility. >> I love the Positioning Cloud Communications Company. That's kind of what you guys Air Corps, because you're bringing it all together. And I think you know, the mobile Revolution, starting with the iPhone and 2007. You look at that as a seminal moment and you say OK, mobile device. It's a phone, It's a computer. It's got applications on it. This is a device that's unique to the rest of the infrastructure, but developers and your programming on it, and those things all integrate together. That's where a lot of people kind of saw that for the first time. Then you add cloud to it. Amazon, Microsoft and Google, the top three Amazon dominating really kind of brings a P. I focus even more to make these service's. These Web service is go to a whole nother level on dhe. That's the big wave that we're seeing. I'd >> love to get >> your thoughts and you worked at salesforce dot com, which really pioneered sass. And they were the first real cloud company before you started to see Amazon really cloud infrastructure to service. So Platforms asserts and suffers of service evolve. You were there early. You had a lot of experience working with AP Exchange APP stores early on its sales force. How does that compare to now? What is the trajectory and how does it all connect? >> Yeah, I mean, I think that when I, you know my joke is always that when I started on the APP exchange, its sales force, the Apple App store didn't even exist. So the explosion of mobile devices was just we weren't even. We weren't even there quite yet, and I was working with Iess V's Thio to help them. I think about how they could launch big businesses in the cloud on, I think at that point people were were rotating hard away from the world of on premise, which required a ton of investment of a hardware perspective and service's perspective, and in the process of that, rotated very almost overcorrected towards package solutions. And I think over the last few years what we've seen and something that Tulio is definitely behind and you could see in the vision of our product roadmap he's coming back to the middle, where you have the benefits of the cloud, the speed, the ability to stand something out very quickly. But you also have unlimited customization ability, and you can really put that Theobald ity to build palette for applications that bring the best of different solutions in different applications through a p. I's in the hands of of your developers. Sorry. Go ahead. >> I think that's a great point. I want to just double down on that for a second and ask you how you guys are seeing the developer traction on this because one of the core things that were been reporting over the past couple years this year in particular is the rise of things like Kubernetes Cloud native, where developers now have a seamless way to program the infrastructure, the hard stuff. So you're seeing a faster development cycle for those application developers. Is that where the customization piece comes in? Is that where you guys see that connection point? And what does that mean for customers? >> Yeah, I mean, I think that's part of it. But at a higher level, we really want to empower developers. You create a custom connected journey across >> all different parts of how our customers interacting with the brand. You know, >> if you think about I. I had a recent incident with an airline that will remain nameless, but I I left my laptop on a plane in to get that laptop back. Took multiple calls. Thio the customer service desk. I was bounced around to a bunch of different people. The tracking of that computer was a near impossible. At one point, it traveled from New Jersey, Thio Ireland. You know, there was just so many different points of that journey where there was disconnection and I began to lose trust in this the ability of this customer service department, uh, you know, this This company had an A P I based approach. They could bring all of the data from these different systems from there. >> Your pee from their serum, you know, from their shipping vendor all in one place. And I wouldn't have had that that experience with that particular airline. >> So if you see a P Eyes is a data connector model, really, connecting data sets together fast and easy. >> Ideo. I think it's a way I think developers love working in AP eyes because they can bring all the they can pick the best of breed solutions and bring over that data into one customer united customer experience so that your customer doesn't have >> to do that heavy lifting. It's all there for them. >> You know, one of the things you see from companies like Salesforce pioneering the early days of Assassin Cloud. I mean, even Andy jassy it Amazon many times, and he always uses the expression that they use the Amazon cold you got. You have to be misunderstood for a long time. If you want to be a leader in an emerging Newmarket. You guys that twilio kind of have done that and continue to surpass expectations because you've been kind of skating to where the puck is now, which is the cloud Native Wave. Third party applications, Coyote security all kind of come together for developers. So as a company that's been different and been disruptive as the c m o. >> How do you >> take that? Uh, that that vision in Montreat the next level as you market the solution because you are kind of different. You are not new per se, but you're a new way to create value for customers. How do you go out and tell that story with some of the marketing things that you do? Um, take that twilio to the next level. >> I mean, I personally, in >> my experience, I think, uh, the easiest marking jobs are the ones where you have amazing customer stories and there is no shortage of amazing innovation and our customer base on. And, you know, I think if you think about the companies that are making the news, if that's lift, if that's, you know, cos like Airbnb, they're not. If you think about their business, they're not inventing something. Brando. The Hoover didn't invent the taxi, uh, air being beaten and then a hotel room. But they invented a new way to consume their product to communicate around their product. And, you know, I think it's very easy to show the power of Tulio and how we've evolved through some of these these customer stories. And it's not just the kind of Silicon Valley fast growing, you know, start ups that we're all familiar with here, just just living and being located in the region. But, you know, we're starting to see this more and more in the enterprise as well. Ah, and people really hardest in communication to make sure that that they themselves are not disrupted. >> Yeah, of course. We love that. The enterprise high we've been doing for 10 years now. Everyone talks enterprise because the confidence of consumer ization of I t. Is happening. It's the lines are blurring. Share some customers successors because I think this is a great, great example of just great marketing that the customers do the talking for you. You always got to do this thing. You know the standard operational things and have some a text back and all that good stuff. But at the end of the day, when you have your customer sharing their success, that's really the ultimate testimonial. So share some cool examples of notable customers, if you can. >> Yeah, well, look I mean, we have a wide range, I'll tell you. Three Medtronic, one of the largest medical device companies in the world. They provide a solution for Type one diabetes. They provide a pump that is constantly monitoring the glucose levels in someone's blood. What they've done with Julio's. Now they're layering on messaging capability. So if someone's glucose levels all to a level that's unsafe, they could be messaged. And you know, this is not just for the patient. But if you think of a young child who suffers from Type one diabetes, this could be a very stressful situation for their parents and their caregiving team. And now that team can constantly be in the loop, and they don't have to worry if they are at work and wondering, you know how they're chai that was doing at school. Or, you know, if they're on the soccer field and concerned about you know how, uh, their condition could be affected by them. Participating in that sport s so completely different from your more, um uh, straight down the middle startup that we see here in the Valley. >> So basically, messaging is to keep value. It's not so much a tech thing. It's more of a the outcome. It's a critical service piece toe. Have those kind of real time communications? >> Yes, absolutely. Because, I mean, if you think about >> it monitoring your your, uh, glucose levels, that's not a new phenomenon. People have been doing that for years, but layering on communications on top of this has brought a real time element Thio monitoring this, uh, this condition and has liberated people with this condition so that, you know, they can get back to the things that they've always going to do without having to worry about. You know, the state of their health. It's gone. >> It's like infrastructure is code for devil up you guys air for communications. You make it easy to do that for things like that. Talk about the impact of scale over the years because now you know, we're seeing the data tsunami happen Every day I ot devices air coming on. Everything's got. Ah, a sensor on it. You got doorbells. You got everything out there now has got an I P address and connected in that could potentially be a messaging unit of of data. This is just getting massive. How you guys see scale? And how do you guys getting around the next wave on that piece? >> Yeah. I mean, I think one of the >> huge benefits in working with polio is our super network. So we're constantly maintaining relationships with all the key carriers across the globe to make sure that we can get deliver our to our customers the best routes. And so that means also that they can stand up business virtually anywhere across the globe, a cz, their entry in new markets and coyote. This is especially true for anyone who is in the eye ot space. If you think about the dock Ellis category, companies like lime, uh, who are, you know, delivering rental bike service is where and you know, a market where market share just grabbing as much market share is possible. It seems to be the name of the game. They're able to partner with Julio in bed sim cards and all of their bicycles, and now be able to you track all of those all of those bicycles across the globe as well as scooters. Ah, and then take that information, uh, figure out how customers are engaging with their product and ultimately build a better solution. Long term, >> real time messaging will never go away as values. I see just like data. So it's gonna get faster and larger amounts of messaging making sense of it. Do. The heavy lifting is great story. You guys done a great job. Thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective. Get the plug in for twilio real quick. What's new with the company employees out? See the public companies? You really can't talk about futures, but what's on your plate? What's on the horizon for Tulio? What's the update? >> Yeah, I mean, the company is >> growing extremely quickly. We're really excited about the context, but center market especially. We launched our flex contact center Solution, uh, was made generally available just this past October. On a CZ you've mentioned we're super excited to welcome sing grid into the family of products you know, really, round out our full set communication in the eyes of people communicate with their customers in any way possible. And I would be, uh, it would be a crime for me, not to mention our user conference coming up this August August 6th and seventh at Mosconi West and that's called Signal s O. I highly encourage you to attend. It's a great opportunity to hear from experts in the communications space and also our customers. >> Well, we love the name signal. Extracting the signal from the noise was our original kind of tag line. Really appreciate it. And with all those customers, must be a hard challenge to have a cup conference, doing the keynote selections and figuring out what to do. What you're gonna have breakout sessions. Just get a little more detail on the event. You're gonna see the stage and customer story's going to break out sections. What's the format for the event? >> Yeah, so it's It's a two day, um, session. At most witty West. We have a number of breakouts. We have hands on training, which we call super class. We have, uh, keynotes. Last year we had an interactive performance with the band. OK, go. Uh, we had the creators of Westworld onstage. Geoff Lawson, our CEO, always kicked the Hoff ER, and it's just a great, exciting two days on, and we also this year, given that were hosting it during the summer time frame, we have ah camp experience for your children. And if you're looking to combine it with a summer vacation so we're super excited about signal, it's, uh, it's, Ah, two of my favorite days of the year from, Ah, Giulio perspective. And I'd love for everyone to come join us. >> We got a great customer success over the years, and great names congratulate Sarah. Thanks for been the time here in the Cube. I'm John Furry here in Palo Alto. Ceremony the chief marketing officer with Julio in San Francisco via remote. Thanks for watching this cute conversation.

>> Live from Orlando, Florida It's the Cube covering Enterprise Connect twenty nineteen brought to you by five nine. >> Hello from Orlando, Florida Lisa Martin with the cubes to Mina mints here with me, and we're on Day three of our coverage of Enterprise Connect. Twenty nineteen. We've been graciously hosted by five nine this week, talking with a lot of their folks and partners as well about the connected contact center. And we're excited to welcome one of their partners, Choi still to the Cube. Diane Smith, CEO. Diane It's great to have you joining stew and me today. You. So, first of all, I want to say congratulations. Choice Tell twenty fifth anniversary this year as big milestone. Tele Review is a little bit about choice telling what you're doing with respect to Enterprise Communications >> course. Well, as you said, we've been at this for twenty five years, and we've worked across many different business sectors in our industry. We really kind of help from the customers phone all the way into the data center so that complete communications channel, whether it be voice or data services in today's world, is very well interconnected. In the early days, voice with separate data was over here, but now it's all combined together. So we work with all of it. >> Diana, I want one of things we've been talking about this week is the kind of ebb and flow of some of the communication channels. So, you know, this show a number of years ago change from voice, voice, con overto enterprise connect because it was like, oh, is one of one of the analysts That voice wasn't that sexy any more. But today, when we talk, we understand that voice is still very important in all the communication that that twenty five years, you know, I'm sure choice tells gone through a number of changes. S o. How are you seeing these trends? What's important to your users? Let's go from there. >> Well, as you stated, voice really isn't going away. I mean, here we are today, right? So what's not going away? It's a matter of fact. It's even more important because I think in the digital age, people kind of trended away and thought that we could just do email on texting. But we've lost so much with that, and so voices actually becoming even more important. And as this writing now across the data networks, it's even even more sensitive to interruptions and companies that can actually deliver a reliable service. So we've kind of gone backwards to now. We need to make sure it's reliable, but not only reliable. There's so much technology specifically around Contact Center. That's really what's contributing to this. You know this new, amazing perspective about voice. Aye, aye, And all these other items that are really building in efficiencies we just never had before, So this was impossible. >> So how are you helping to educate your customers on there? So many options now, right? And as we hear it, shows like this. And everywhere we go two, especially as consumers. Same thing. So many options, so much choice and so much challenge for contact centers to treat those customers as they know exactly why they're calling what they're doing to get them the right information when they need it. Talk to us about the customers, say some of your customers that you've had maybe for quite some time since you're a storied company helping them to understand and how to transform digitally their communications platform to be able to capitalize on the voices of their customers. >> Absolutely. As you stated, there are tremendous number of choices and these choices are growing every day. There are people here vendors here that were here just last year, not to mention ten years ago. So the options are just so expansive and exhaustive that most of our clients are overwhelmed by it. I mean, they're constantly being called by vendor's every day, and they and then the benefit obviously we're bringing to the table is they don't have to talk to them. They could just talk to us, and, uh, and that's why we're here, too, because there's always something new to learn and is never ending and part of our job. And our role is to make sure we're looking at vendors that we're properly suit each customer because each customer's also very different. There are some consistencies in some areas, but the personality of the customer dictates which vendor would best suit them beyond the technology piece, you know, because it even those technology, it's still people. We're still dealing with people >> that I and I. I love that because if you dig inside an organization and say what kind of problems you're having A. You know, I wish our communications were better and we're talking about a What about with my partners or my customers. Well, communication is something I care about, but most companies are in an expert on communications. I have to believe that's where you come in for a lot of it is that, you know, let them focus on the people in the relationships and not the underlying technology. >> Absolutely ifs and this exactly what we do. So we're looking for the right mix of solutions and right mix of vendors. It's not always the one vendor fits all and so, but most customers have no idea. So we'LL take our customers through a voice Discovery workshop, helped him understand what the landscape looks like and then start narrowing down like the delivery models in which best delivery model fits best for them. >> Can you walk us through that? It takes a bit of a complex environment out here. You talk about customers, they've got their serum. They've got their context than her. They're the w F O wfm type stuff there and that they don't have to worry about choosing all of those pieces. And we've heard that the cloud it does the cloud actually deliver the I can choose my pieces, but it works well together, rather than the old way of kind of taking boxes and manpower to integrate these things. >> It definitely does. I really believe that the next eighteen months, in my opinion, but I believe the next eighteen months are really going to be the tipping point for as a service communications, whether it be contact center or regular U C or all the components. As you mentioned that tack on to that. I've seen a very large customers finally making that turn where before they were kind of sitting back and watching little guys were, you know, moving over small ten twenty thirty hundred person offices. But now you've got thousand people with thousands and thousands of end points that are ready to turn that corner >> and what makes them ready. The fear of being out competed by a smaller, more agile business. >> That's an excellent point, because now the services that are available to small companies are available in the cloud where before you had to spend, you know, maybe million's to get a whole system set up to be able to do a I am workforce management. But now a small twenty person company can have all of those tools at their hands >> itself. That's >> a really good point. >> Yeah, it's Detroit. Do you think about business technology? A lot of that stuff, you know, would sit around for a decade without being changed. Today is a consumer. I'm used to every three or four years, sometimes every two years, or I sign up for one of those plans where every eighteen months I can get the upgrade there. There's a different expectation, and I think we're a little bit more condition, too. Look at new ways. I know I tryto talk to my kids is toe some of the new ways to understand that. So are we starting to move a little faster? Especially in the Enterprise? >> I think so. And certainly some enterprises are ahead of others. Some are more, you know, leading edge. Even bleeding Edge and others are still fairly conservative. But what's exciting about right now is even the companies that are conservative are starting to make that leap. So so that's also part of the story. And I think it's because you know what the technology's been around for a while now. I think that the ass of service communications industry thought this would happen five years ago, and it didn't. But now there's so much stability. There's no underlying infrastructure that's available through companies like Google and A WS. It can enable service provider's like five nine to be having that very strong, reliable and secure backbone to promote the product. >> So let's talk a bit about your relationship. What choice tell is doing with your partnership with five nine? >> Well, way haven't exciting project that we're working on right now. Being from Michigan, we're working with an employment service through the state of Michigan that's located in the city of Detroit. And they have purchased five nines to train contact center agents to be context, injury, people, individual people. Course contact center agent. So thie idea there's ended will help them get jobs in the community and to be fully trained on the platform of five nights. And >> how does choice tell help with that training in that enablement? >> So were there two sort of hand, hold the whole process, provide training network and communicating and make sure that this option at this opportunity get sent out to the community? And so we're working in our community in our state with the local news municipalities, the chief information officers and all the technology people to help bring them to fruition >> when you work with companies and lots of industries. But any verticals in particular that choice tell it may be with eventually with five nine is going to help to transform and bring into this more modern era. >> Definitely manufacturing. You know, Michigan is certainly the manufacturing headquarters, but we have plenty of manufacturing customers and different geography. Zzzz well, but that's one of those you know kind of sat in the back, didn't make that forward move that fast on DH. Now they're really starting to see the advantages of moving to the cloud, the the ability to be nimble and agile and two new fast. So you know, there's not like this huge major commitment in the old days, if you bought a new system, you're gonna live with them for twenty five years, maybe even twenty, maybe less, but not usually. So with this type of technology, we were able to constantly stay up and above and move faster as well deployments and including some of these new great things like a I >> Diana, this show has been one that we've been talking a lot about change and how fast things are moving you talked about. In the next eighteen months, you expect an inflection point toe happen gives a little bit insight. Is Tio conversations you're having at the show some of the key takeaway. If you want people to have that that might not have been ableto in the show this year. >> Well, I think that way shouldn't There's There's so many really great new players out there and getting here helps you get to those companies and actually see them outside of that, You're usually not going to find them so easily. So this is really the place to do that. If you're in this business, you should be here because this is where you're gonna hear about it. No other place. Do you really do that? >> Are there any trends or commentary that you heard in any of the keynotes or, uh, any of the fireside chats the last couple of days? That sort of surprised your teacher interests like Wow, this tipping point, like you were saying eighteen months out, that really surprised you? >> Um, >> I think that, uh, I think the tipping point really, and some of the new things. I mean, we've been talking about for a while. But I think that A I is maturing more now and there's there's more. There's more underlying companies that are doing it as well. So just seeing that actually hit the application is the biggest. The biggest change. So because we've talked about it now, it's actually happening. Do >> you think customers are some of your customers? If you look at ah, large manufacturer out of Detroit or that municipality that you mentioned in Michigan when they hear a I just how does a small company react to a larger company? Are they excited? Are they like, How would we utilize this to our advantage? What's the sort of education piece that you could bring about that technology? >> There's a lot of education because most people think it's going to be some big, exorbitant project, and how can we do that? We don't have enough time to implement it, but with the way most of these organizations are delivering it, they don't have to think about it. And that's the biggest education piece, because I think it sounds a little intimidating at first, and you're thinking it's going to be. There's gonna be a lot of cycles and work planning around it in order to really be able to enjoy it and receive the benefits. But that's not the case. And so there is an education process and helping them envision it. So that's the biggest thing that we're doing is helping them to envision it because they didn't even I think it was possible for them that they didn't need it or what could it do for them? So that's that's the biggest exercise that you have to go through. >> And we're hearing a lot. This show has been on a repeats to if it's not any, any time we talk about a, there's always a conversation of, you know, jobs being taken. But this has really thematically been it's humans plus a it's the humans You mentioned the relationships before that. That's that's what moves the dial. That's where the empathy is. So it's part of that education sort of telling your customers it's not all of these machines and RPI N II that's going to take jobs away. It's actually augmenting what they're able to deliver to your customers >> exactly in a more expedient manner, which was really going to improve customer experience at the end of the day. And that's the real business value. And so, as you're talking about these things and everything has to be associate ID back to what is the business driver? What's the value that they get? You know, technology for technology sake is never good. And so that's part of that envisioning process. Helping customers envision how this can actually impact our business in a positive way and help them do more business. Hopefully right. Improve their profits. Improved >> profits is always good. Diane, Thank you so much for taking some time to joins, too, and be on the cure this afternoon. Congrats again on your twenty fifth anniversary of choice. Tell >> you appreciate it >> for Lisa Martin. For Lisa Martin. I'm Lisa Martin for stupid, and you're watching The Cube from Orlando

>> Live from Orlando, Florida its theCUBE covering Enterprise Connect 2019. Brought to you by Five9. >> Hello from Orlando, Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman theCUBE. We are live, day three at Enterprise Connect 2019. We have been in Five9's booth all week and we're very excited to welcome to the program for the first time Harry Moseley the CIO of Zoom Video Communications. Harry thanks so much for joining Stu and me on The CUBE today. >> Lisa, Stu its a pleasure to be here, thank you for having me. >> And you're a hall of famer, you have been inducted into the CIO Magazine's hall of fame and recognized as one of the world's top 100 CIO's be Computer World >> Yes that's right >> So we're in the presence of a VIP >> (chuckles) Well thank you for that it's, as I say its all credit back to the wonderful people that have supported me throughout my career. And I've worked with some amazing people and leaders and, who have supported me and the visions that I've created for their organizations. And so, I understand its about me but it's also about the great teams that I've worked with in my past. I can't make this stuff up, yep. >> Harry, we love talking to CIO's especially one with such a distinguished career as yours 'cause the role of CIO has gone through a lot of changes. IT has gone through a lot of changes. You know we've been doing this program for nine years. Remember reading Nick Carr's IT, does IT matter? And you know, we believe IT matters more than ever Not just IT, the business, the relationship maybe give us a little more of your view point as to the role of the CIO and technology, at a show like this. We hear about the CMO and the business and IT all working together. >> Yeah so its actually, in my opinion, there's never been a better time to be a CIO, irrespective of the company you are in, whether its a tech company like where I'm, you know Zoom Video Communications or any one of the prior companies I worked for, professional services, financial services. But even when you think about it like trucking, You think about trucking as an industry, you think about trucking as a company, its like it was a very sort of brick and mortars? But now its all about digital, right? A friend of mine runs a shipping container company and to think that they load five miles of wagons every day. And so I said to him, "how long does it take to load a wagon on a truck?" "It takes four minutes, and you know what Harry, "we're working that down to three. "And that'll increase our revenue by 20 to 25 percent.' And so its just fantastic. And the pace of change, you know it's just growing exponentially. It's just fascinating, the things that we can actually do today we only dreamed about them a year ago. And you think about it sort of' I can't wait to be back here next year, 'cause we're going to just lift the roof off this place in terms of the capabilities. And so its fantastic, yeah it's just absolutely fantastic. >> So looking at, a lot of us know Zoom for video conferencing and different things like that, but you said something very interesting in your fireside chat this morning that I hadn't thought about, and that is when, either going from audio to video, when you're on a video chat you really can't or shouldn't multi-task. So in terms of capturing peoples attention, enabling meetings to happen maybe more on time, faster, more productive. Thought that was an interesting realization, I thought, you're right. >> It just clicks, it just works. You know mobile, you know when I go back to my you know sort of' going back and again, thank you for the recognition from the key note. But when I go back earlier in my career it's like dialing that number, dialing that ten digit number, misdialing that number, what happened? I got to' hang up, I got to' get a dial tone, I got to' dial the numbers again. Now I'm like two minutes late and I know I'm late more often than I'd like, but when its late because of something like that, that's frustrating. That's really frustrating. And so the notion that you can just click on your mobile device, you can click on your laptop, I have no stress anymore, in joining meetings anywhere. I love telling the story about how I had a client meeting, I was in O'Hare Airport and I joined the client prospect meeting. I joined the prospect meeting on my phone using the free wifi service at O'Hare Airport. Put up my virtual background on my phone I just showed you this Stu, with our logo shared the content off of my phone 18 minutes into this 30 minutes call, the person I was talking to, the CIO for this firm called a halt to the meeting. This is what exactly what happened. Enough, I've heard enough. (announcement in background) >> Keep going. >> Keep going, okay. Enough, I didn't know what enough meant. And so I was a little spooked by that if you will. He goes, "you're on a phone, you're in O'Hare Airport, "you've got a virtual background, "you're sharing content, its all flawless. "Its like this is an amazing experience "that we can't get from all the technology "investment we've done in this space "for our company. "So guys, enough. "We're starting a proof of concept on Monday. "No more discussions about it. "Harry, looking forward to being a business partner." >> Does it get better than that? >> It doesn't get better than that. Its like you know, you hop through security, you get on a plane, and its cruisin' all the way home. >> Yeah I mean Harry, I do have to say, you know disclaimer, we are Zoom customers I'm actually a Zoom admin and its that simplicity that you've built into it is the experience, makes it easy. >> And then when you, and Stu, sorry to interrupt you but I got really excited about this stuff as you can tell. But, and then you look at the enterprise. So you're admin? You get into the enterprise management portal and its like Stu, I had a really bad experience. Oh let me look that up, oh yeah, okay. Where were you? You know, I was in outer Mongolia Ah okay, about five minutes into the call you had some packet loss, its like yeah it wasn't. But it still maintains the connection, right? So you can actually, so our Enterprise Management Portal is awesome. >> Yeah so that actually where I was going with the question, is you know I remember back, I actually worked for Lucent right after they spun out from AT&T. And we had videos talking about pervasive video everywhere, in my home in the business. Feels like we're almost there but still even when I have a team get together my folks that live in Silicon Valley, their connectivity's awful. You know when they have their, and its like oh well my computer or my phone don't have the cycles to be able to run. Maybe we have to turn off some of the video Are we getting there, will 5G solve some of these issues? Will the next generation of phones and computers keep up with it? Because it's, I'm sure you can guess we're big fans of video. It's a lot of what we do. >> Because video is the new voice, right. We like video. If I can only hear you and I can't see you, then when I make a statement I can't see you nodding. If I say something you like, you nod. So we get that concurrency of the experience Again it comes back Stu, where were we a year ago? The capabilities we had, where will we be a year from today? Whether its AI, whether its the power in the device in front of us whether its the network, you know, 5G is becoming a reality. It's going to take some time to get there but you've got sort of great technologies and capabilities, that you know, you look at the introduction of our real-time transcription services. I mean how cool is that? I'm sure there's lots of questions, so lots of people would ask about that real-time transcription in terms of, well what's next? I'm not going to talk about what's next. But as they say in life, watch this space. >> Yeah, just you made some announcements at the show with some partners I actually believe Otter AI is one of the ones you mentioned there. I got a demo of their thing, real time, a little bit of AI built in there. Can you talk about some of those partnerships? >> Yeah so we have great, we love our partnerships right? Whether its on the AI space, with Apple and Siri and Amazon and Otter. We also love our partnerships with Questron and Logitek and HP, and Polly of course. Again its the notion of, we have terrific software. You guys realize that, right? Its terrific software, proprietary QOS proprietary capabilities, its like its a fantastic experience every time on our software. These partners have great technologies too. But they're more on the hardware side, we are software engineers at our core. As Andreson said, I think it was about ten years go, "software is the easing thing in the world "so you take terrific software "you imbed it in terrific hardware "with terrific partners and what happens "is you get exceptional experiences." And that's what we want to deliver to people. So its not about the technology, its about the people. Its about making people happy, making easy, taking stress off the table. You go to the meeting, you light it up, you share the content, you record it, you can watch it later, its just terrific. >> So the people, the experiences you about we've been hearing that thematically for the last three days. As we know as consumers, the consumer behavior is driving so much of this change that has to happen, for companies to not just digitally transform, but to be competitive. We're in Five9's booth and they've mentioned they've got five billion minutes of recorded customer conversations. You guys can record, but its not just about the recording of the voice and the video and the transcription. Tell us about what you're doing to enable the context, so that the data and the recordings have much more value. >> Yeah so , I mean its the notion of being able to sort of rewind and replay. I'll give you another example if I may. Coming out of an office in Palo Alto jumped in the Uber, going back to San Jose for a client meeting. I'm a New Yorker as we talked about a few minutes ago and, I don't know the traffic patterns in Southern, in the Valley. And its about 5:00 o'clock, 5:15. San Jose meetings 5:45. Normally it would be fine, but its rush hour, what do I know about rush hour? I know a lot more now than then. I realize I'm not going to be able to make it on time. Put up the client logo, virtual background on the phone, in the Uber, client gets on the call, Harry where are you? I'm in the back of an Uber. Again, the same sort of experience. Then he asks the question, "well with this recording capability, "can I watch it at 35,000 feet?" Of course you can. And that was it. That was the magic moment for this particular client, because he said "I'm client facing all the time. "I don't get it in time, "I don't always make my management meetings "so I won't have to ask my colleagues what happened "and get their interpretation of the meeting. "I can actually watch the meeting "when I'm at 35,000 feet on a plane, going to Europe." So that's what this is all about. >> Alright, well Harry obviously this space excites you a bunch. Can you bring us back a little bit? This brought you out of retirement and the chase, the space is changing so fast. We come a year from now, what kind of things do we think we'll be talking about, and what's going to keep you excited going forward? >> So lets talk about the first part first and then sort of' break it into two. So yes I had a fantastic career and I retired and so when I met Eric and I met the leadership team at Zoom and I dug into the technology and I understood sort of' A, the culture of the company which is amazing. When I understood the product capability and how this was built as video first, and how we would have this maniacal focus if you will on sort of being a software company at our core. And how it was all about the people. That was sort of a very big part of my decision. So that was one. Two is, look we have a labor shortage right? We can't hire enough people, we can't hire the people, we have more jobs than we have people. So and so, retaining talent is really important. Giving them the technology and the studies that have been done, if you make an investment in the technology, that helps with retention. That helps with profit. It helps with, product innovation. So investment in the people. And the ability to collaborate. It's very hard to work if you don't collaborate, right? It just makes it really, very lumpy if you will. So the ability to collaborate locally, nationally, and globally, and people say, well what's collaborating locally? It's kind of like we can just walk down the corridor. Yeah, well if you're in two different buildings how do you get there? And then it gives us, a foot of snow between you, its makes it really hard. So collaborating locally, nationally, and globally is super important. So you put all that together that was the, what convinced me to say okay you know what, retirement, we're just going to put a pause button on that. And we're going to gave some fun over here. And that really has been, so I've, over a year now and its been absolutely amazing. So yes, big advances. What's in the the future? I think the future, you know there's been a lot of discussion around AI. We hear that its like, all the time. And we've seen from a variety of different providers this week in terms of their, their thoughts around how they're going to leverage AI. Its not about the technology, its about the end of the its about the user experience. And you look at the things that we started to do, we talked about real-time transcriptions a few moments ago, you look at the partnership that we have with Linkedin where you can hover over the name and their Linkinin profile pops up. You're going to see this, I just see this as an exponential change in these abilities. Because you have these building blocks today that you can grow on an exponential basis. So, the world is our oyster, is how I fundamentally think about it. And the art of the possible is now possible, And so lets, I think the future is going to' be absolutely amazing. Who would have, sorry Lisa, who would have thought a year ago, you could get on a plane using facial recognition? Let me just throw that out there. I mean, that's pretty amazing. Who would have thought a year ago that when you rent a car, you can just look at the camera on the way out and you're approved to go? Who would have thought that? >> So with that speed I'm curious to get your take on how Zoom is facilitating adoption. You mentioned some great customers examples where your engagement with them via Zoom Video Conference basically sold the POC in and of itself, with you at an airport >> That's a great questions. >> I guess O'Hare has pretty good wifi. >> What's that? >> O'Hare has pretty good wifi. >> A little choppy but, but it worked. >> It worked. >> Because of our great software, yeah. >> There you go, but in terms of adoption so as customers understand, alright our consumers are so demanding, we have to be able to react, and facilitate collaboration internally and externally. How, what are some of the tools and the techniques that Zoom delivers to enable those guys and gals to go I get it, I'm going to use it, And I'm actually going to actually use it successfully? >> This is a question, I don't know how many clients, CIOs, CTOs, C suite execs I talk to, and they all say, they all ask me similar sorts of questions. Like we're not a video first culture. Its like video, its kind of like we're a phone culture. And then I, so I throw that right back at them and I say and why is that? Because we don't have a good video platform. Aha. Now, when you have good video, when it just works when its easy, when its seamless, when its platform agnostic. IOS, Andriod, Mac, Windows, Linux, VDI, web. When you have this sort of, this platform when you're agnostic to the platform, and its a consistent high quality experience, you use it. So its the notion of, Lisa, it's the notion of would we rather get into a room and, would we rather get into a room and have a face to face meeting? Absolutely. So why would you get on a call and not like to see the people you're talking to. You like to see the people. Why, because its a video first. >> Unless its just one of those meetings that's on my calender and I didn't want to be there and I'm not going to listen. But I totally agree with you Harry. So, another hot button topic that I think we're at the center of here and that I'm sure you have an opinion on. Remote workers. So we watched some really big companies I think really got back in the dialogue a coupla' years ago when Yahoo was like okay, everybody's got to' come in work for us and we've seen some very large public companies that said you need to be in your workforce. and as I said, I'm sure you've got some pretty strong opinions on this >> I don't know what's going on here, quite honestly Stu but its like I think you're reading my brain because these are things I love talking about. So yeah, its. Sorry repeat the question? >> Remote workers. >> Remote workers, yeah. So first of all, I was at an event recently we talked about remote work. We didn't like the term. Its a distributed workforce. >> Yes. Because if you say you're a remote worker its kind like, that doesn't give you that warm feeling of being part of the organization. So we call it, so we said, we should drop calling people remote workers and we should call them a distributed work force. So that's one. Two is, I'm in New york, I'm in Orlando, I'm in Chicago, I'm in Atlanta, I'm in Denver. I'm on planes, I'm in an Uber. I don't feel disconnected at all. Why? Because I can see my colleagues, and its immersive. They share content with me. I'm walking down Park Avenue and I've got my phone and they're sharing content and I'm zooming in and I can see them and I can hear them and I'm giving feedback and I'm marking up on my phone, as I'm walking. So I don't feel, and then when I go to, its fascinating, and then I go to San Jose and I'm walking around the office and I'm seeing people physically. It doesn't feel like I haven't seen them, its really funny. I was in San Jose last week, Wednesday and Thursday in San Jose, took the red-eye back. Hate the red-eye but, I don't like flying during the day, I think it's inefficient, a waste of time. Took the red-eye back, now I'm on calls Friday morning from my office at home with my green screen, Zoom background and everybody's got, it's like I'm talking to the same people I was talking to yesterday but they were in the flesh, now they're on video. It's like Harry where are you, why didn't you come to the room? Well I'm back in New York. It's just just that simple, yep. >> That simple and really it sounds like Harry, what Zoom is delivering is a cultural transformation for some of these newer or older companies who, there is no reason not to be a video culture. We thank you so much for taking some time >> Thank you, thank you >> To stop by theCUBE and chat with Stu and me about all of the exciting things that brought you back into tech. and I'm excited to dial up how I'm using Zoom. >> Well we can take five minutes after this and I can show you some cool tricks >> Wow, from the CIO himself. Harry Moseley, thank you so much for your time. >> Thank you, thank you >> Great to have you on the program. For Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE (upbeat tune)

>> Live from Orlando, Florida. It's the Cube. Covering Enterprise Connect 2019, brought to you by Five9. >> Hello from Orlando, Florida. I'm Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman on the Cube, at Enterprise Connect 2019. Stu and I are joined by a guest from Ribbon Communications. We've got Sacha Gera, the SVP of Cloud. Sacha welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> So we've had the opportunity to talk to one of your colleagues from Ribbon before but let's give our audience an opportunity to learn more about Ribbon, who you guys are, what you do and then of course we'll talk about some of the great new exciting announcements that you'll make here this week. >> Absolutely, so Ribbon Communications is a global leader in providing real-time communications. We provide piece parse technology to over a thousand carriers around the world and increasingly to independent software vendors and enterprise. So we came into existence about 18 months ago with the amalgamation of Sonus and GENBAND coming together and about 18 months old and doing some big things now so. >> And a lot of news coming out this week. Talk to us about some of the key announcements that Ribbon is making with some of your partners, AT&T for example. >> Absolutely, so our Kandy cloud communications business which is our SaaS brand, we're a white label platform as a service providing UCaaS and CPaaS services to independent software vendors and carriers around the world. And we're really excited about AT&T's announcement ahead of the conference here and AT&T, you know a lot of people have been saying, "We're waiting for the big tier one service providers to fire back at some of the more well-known CPaaS players out there." And so what we do is we helped AT&T with an end-to-end platform as a service play to help them launch their marketplace. And the key word there is marketplace. There is a lot of folks providing APIs and SDKs as you look around the conference here but when you think about the Fortune thousand looking for those low code, no code-type digital solutions that can have the easy button to launch and transform into the digital evolution that's going on, that's what we are helping AT&T to do. So it's been quite they announcement for us. >> Sacha, I love that. We've been saying for years you know, the enterprise really needs an upmarket place, just like we have on our phones, it'd be great to have that, you know when I came into the show. my first time coming here it was like okay, how much is it just API compatibility? And we were working amongst each other but as I walk around the show floor it's like, "Oh well yeah that (mumbles) makes sense." And then these kind of pieces, which ones come together and which ones would I, as an enterprise or service provider just be able to, you know, plug into. So can you speak a little a little of that maturation of the marketplace and what the reality out there is there today. >> Absolutely and think about that large enterprise that has an existing procurement vehicle with the large carriers. They're getting their data services, their telephony, their collaboration. It's an actual extension to want to sell use cases and digital solutions. And so with the carrier, you've got an existing bill. One bill. Now your adding APIs and SDKs, turn key digital solutions and an easy button that's more E-commerce centric. And that's really what we've been able to help AT&T do, to really move up the value chain, so. >> So when you're out talking with customers and I know one of your customers, Hertz was on the customer panel this morning during the general session. When you're out talking with customers, talk to us about real-time communication. It's this huge opportunity for customers. It's almost an imperative that they'll be able to have real-time communications with whoever they are transacting business with. How are you guys helping customers embrace and deliver real-time communications? >> Absolutely, so we were really pleased to hear Hertz give us the shout out this morning and you know our end customer is actually not Hertz. Hertz is a customer of IBM and we are helping IBM with their white label platform as a service for their UCaaS and collaboration services. And of course Hertz is transforming all of their rental car branches around the world into the cloud, using our hosted voice over IP and UCaaS services. So we're really pleased about the announcement. So when it comes to real-time communications, I mean this is, you got to think about the customer journey and we've heard this from a lot of folks. The consumer is more empowered than ever when it comes to the customer journey. Gone are the days of necessarily walking into a bricks and mortar shop, taking an hour to kind of learn about what's going on. People are making decisions like this because all the information is at the touch of their fingertips. And today it's about customer engagement and it's about making the best informed decisions as possible and customer engagement in especially the contact center is increasingly playing an important role. So we're helping customer like IBM transform their portfolios, fill in portfolio gaps where they can provide new hosting services but at the same time transform that contact center experience and really help drive new sales with engagement tools and new technologies like WebRTC and CPaaS are playing a really important role there. >> So Sacha, it's interesting you have for the most part a degree of separation between yourself and the end consumer. There's one of the press releases that caught my eye though, the scourge to the consumer today is robocalls. It's like most of all, I want to turn off my phone number because most of the calls that come through, even when it says it's somebody you think you know, often times it isn't. Can you talk about, there's an engagement that Ribbon has with a number of service providers, helping to attack this big challenge today. >> Absolutely. So we recently hosted a forum with a number of carriers coming down because there's some studies that show that upwards of 50% of calls in the next couple of years are going to be robocalls and they're annoying as heck, depending on the geography and where you live. So with our new kind of end-to-end portfolio which kind of mixes both analytics and our strategic positioning in the core and the edge. The enterprise edge as well as the core of the carrier. We're in a very strategic place to get that information, data mine it and proactively identify where we're not only getting robocalling but fraud and helping carriers and others to monetize that business and do proactive things with that data. So we have a new kind of solution coming out STIR-SHAKEN, you'll hear a little bit more about that and don't ask me to spell out that acronym. It does actually stand for something that's more technical but we're really excited about what's going on there. The robocalling industry is becoming quite annoying for a lot of folks. It's a big opportunity for us. >> Heck, John Oliver did a segment on it a couple of weeks ago. So, hopefully, your company can help solve that issue because that definitely holds us back today. >> Absolutely. >> So in terms of industry adoption, we mentioned Hertz as a customer of yours through IBM but talk to us about some of the verticals maybe that you're seeing as leading-edge. I think governments, health care, financial services. Are you really seeing those industries kind of lead in this real-time communications opportunity area? >> Absolutely, likes we like to think of ourselves more as of a horizontal player and specifically all verticals are kind of going towards frictionless real-time communications. And you know we have a great thing going on with Five 9s for example. Five 9s is a well-known Cloud contact, it's a center it's a service player and one of the things we're doing with Five 9s is they've got a bunch of end customers who are revolutionizing their contact center and so one of the things we were able to do with Five 9s for example is enable them with WebRTC services. And it was about this time last year, maybe a little bit before when WebRTC ubiquitously kind of got standardized in all the major web browsers. And what we're able to help do with Five 9s is introduce a new frictionless in context way of communicating into the contact center over WebRTC which is great for customers who want to save on the toll-free minutes. It's kind of over the top web toll-free but it's kind of in browser in context like again, contact center agents have that full contextual toolkit of engagement to be able to preserve customers and upsell and cross-sell and provide great customer service. And we're not really seeing any particular vertical that is necessarily adopting that more than the other. We like to think of ourselves as horizontal but certainly governments, financials, retails, telemedicine, we're seeing tremendous traction across all of those. >> See, oh go ahead Stu. >> Yeah I was just being in the cloud, can you talk about some of the relationships with the public cloud. No, no, there were some announcements with Microsoft, believe with Amazon also. How are you seeing, that the hyper-scale public clouds impacting your space? >> Absolutely. So you know in this day and age, you've got to be able to fire up new micro-services and new cloud services instantly and practically anywhere. And there's reasons for that. Some of that is data privacy, some of it's security, some of it's just latency and so on And you know AWS, Azure we're kind of agnostic to the public cloud infrastructure but we're pretty excited about some of their announcements. We've been working with Amazon and Microsoft Azure for some time and increasingly with IBM SoftLayer as well. And so the ability to fire up some of our piece parts or Session Border Controllers. Our WebRTC gateways up in the public cloud and able to facilitate our channel partners to go to market in rapid time. It's an important part of our strategy. With Microsoft, obviously we're one of two certified vendors and with Microsoft and Teams, you know a lot of enterprises are going towards the Teams. We're able to help carriers play in that by having those interconnects to the carriers to provide the voice services and the carrier services and fire up practically instantly in the public cloud. So we're pretty excited about some of those announcements here as well. >> And what can some folks find out and learn about in your booth here at Enterprise Connect? >> Yeah, so I think at our booth you'll see a number of key topics being highlighted. Obviously the public cloud and the Microsoft as well as some of the other public cloud announcements we've had. In addition to that, we recently acquired a company called Edgewater and so our heritage, we've been known very much as kind of a carrier SBC player of choice but we've kind of extended that to the enterprise edge with the acquisition of Edgewater. And what Edgewater provides us is kind of that Enterprise SBC, but with SD-WANs. So SD-WANs, a growing part of our story, having that end-to-end quality of service, over the top with analytics and all the protection of security and all that kind of stuff. So it's a perfect fit into our portfolio and that's another area that you'd be able to see at our booth here this year at Enterprise Connect. >> Excellent last-- >> So if I understand that, I'm sorry. So you have an SD-WAN offering, is it something we've been watching quite a bit in the multi-cloud space and a lot of movement high growth in that area? >> Absolutely. So the SD-WAN offering with the Edgewater product offers a number of key services. Obviously the disaster recovery, having multiple broadband inputs and being able to switch from an LTE to another broadband input is part of that but the analytics in the end-to-end quality of service are equally important and you know for somebody who helps run our cloud communications business, when we go deploy to folks like Hertz, putting that Edgewater CPE box on the prem is an important part of our solution to have that end-to-end visibility for things like SD-WAN but also the analytics and inevitably security and protection as well. >> As we talk about at this event the evolution of communication, the evolution of this event and collaboration, I know we're only kind of halfway through day two here but I'm just curious, any key takeaways that you have gleaned so far from the event that you're looking forward to bringing back to HQ after this event is over? >> Absolutely. You know, every year is a little bit different. There's always a buzz word or two. I think this year what I'm starting to see is there's a lot more focus on the use cases as opposed to the technology. You know in the past, you come here, you talk a lot about the three-letter acronyms, SIP and UCaaS and CPaaS and WebRTC. This year, you're seeing a lot more about how can we actually monetize the business? What are the use cases? And you know as opposed to APIs being a big part of how you get there and the focus on the how, it's more about the what, like APIs are just kind of de-facto and you need them to help mask the complexity of the network and monetize and do things like creating new digital solutions and use cases. So you know it's just an example of how people are trying to talk about things this year as well as analytics and BI. People aren't just talking about how they're doing it, they're showing you what they can do with sentiment analysis. They're showing you how proactive policy can be applied. So that's pretty cool because we're now getting into the fun part of monetizing all of this great technology investment we've made for 10 years. >> And actually showing the business outcomes that it should be delivering, >> Absolutely. >> Right? That's the need, right? >> That's right, yeah. >> Well Sacha thank you so much for stopping by the Cube and chatting with Stu and me. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> Our pleasure. >> All right. >> Thank you for watching the Cube, Lisa Martin for Stu Miniman, you're watching the Cube. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hello everyone, welcome to Palo Altos Cube Studios for CUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCUBE. We're with Kevin Ackroyd, CEO of Cision, CUBE Alumni. He's been on before. Building one of the most compelling companies that's disrupting and changing the game in Comms, advertising, PR, with Cloud technologies. Kevin, great to see you again, thanks for coming in. >> Likewise John, It's really good to be back. >> So, we haven't chatted in two years. You've been busy. Our last conversation was the beginning of 2017. Cision's done a lot of interesting things. You've got a lot of M and A under your belt. You're putting this portfolio together with Cloud technologies. Really been interesting. I really got to say I think you cracked the code on I think a new reality, a new economic reality. Also new capabilities for comms folks. Congratulations. >> Thank you, it's been a fun ride. >> So give us the update. So two years since we talked, how many deals, companies have you bought? What's the headcount, what's the revenue? Give us an update. >> In the four years, 12 acquisitions, seven of which have happened since I've been here. Up to 4,500 employees in over 40 countries. Customer count has grown to over 50,000 customers globally. Revenue's kind of gone from 500s to just shy of 800 million. A lot of leadership changes, and as you just mentioned, pretty seismic change, finally. We've certainly been the catalyst and the cattle prod for that seismic change around tech, data, measurement and analytics finally becoming mature and adopted inside this line of business like the Chief Communication Officer, the earn media folks. To say that they were not tech savvy a few years ago would be an understatement. So, a lot's been going on. >> Yeah, and certainly the trend is your friend, in my opinion, for you. But I think the reality is not yet upon people's general mindset. It's coming quickly, so if you look at some of the big trends out there. Look at fake news, look at Facebook, look at the Google effect. Elizabeth Warren wants to break up Big Tech, Amazon. Cloud computing, in that time period that you were, prior to just going to Cision, you had Oracle Cloud, done a lot of great things on the Marketing Cloud side. But the timing of Cloud computing, the timing of how media has changed. There's not many journalists anymore. We had Andy Cunningham, a legendary industry veteran, formerly of Cunningham Communications. He did the PR for Steve Jobs. You said, there's no more journalists, a few left, but you got to tell your story direct to the consumer. >> You do. >> This is now a new marketing phenomenon. This is a tailwind for you at Cision because you guys, although put these cubbies together, have a unique vision around bringing brand value advertising at PR economics. >> Yeah, that's a good way to put it. >> Tell us the vision of Cision and specifically the shift that's happening. Why are you guys important? What wave are you riding? >> So, there's a couple shifts, John. You and I have talked about this in previous programs There's this shift of the line of business, having to work in a whole bunch of non-integrated point solutions. The CFO used to live in 17 different applications from 17 vendors. That's all squished together. Now I buy from one Cloud platform, right, from Oracle or SAP. Same thing happened in Human Capital Management. 22 things squished into the Cloud, one from Workday, right. Same thing happened, you had 25 different things for sales and service. That all squished together, into one CRM in the Cloud, I buy from Salesforce, right. And our last rodeo, the early part of this stack, it was me and Adobe battling it out for the right to go squish the entire the LUMAscape into a marketing cloud, right, so there could be one ring to rule them all for the CMO. So, it happens in every single category. It just hasn't had over here, happened on the earned media side and the Chief Communications Officer. So, bringing the tech stack so that now we are for the CCO what Adobe is for the CMO what Salesforce is for the CRO, Workday is for the CHRO. That has to happen. You can't do, you can't manage it this way without sophisticated tech, without automation, without integration, you can't do it. The second thing that had to happen, especially in marketing and advertising, they all figured out how to get revenue credit. Advertising was a slow single-digit CAGR industry for 50 years. And then something happened. After 5% CAGR for 50 years, and then something happened over the next 10 years. Digital paid went from like 15 billion to 150 billion. And what happened is that old, I know half my advertising is wasted on this one half. That went bye-bye. Now I know immediately, down to the page, down the ad unit, down to this, exactly what worked, right. When I was able to put Pixels on ads, John, you'd go to that page, Pixel would go on you, It would follow you around If you ended up putting something in the e-commerce shop that ad got credit. I'm not saying that's right, I'm just saying that's how the entire-- >> But that's how the infrastructure would let you, allowed you, it enabled you to do that. Then again, paid advertising, paid search, paid advertising, that thing has created massive value in here. >> Massive value. But my buyer, right, so the person that does the little ad on the most regional tech page got credit. My buyer that got Bob Evans, the Cloud King, to write an article about why Microsoft is going to beat AWS, he's a credible third party influencer, writing objectively. That article's worth triple platinum and has more credibility than 20,000 Microsoft sales reps. We've never, until Cision, well let's Pixel that, let's go figure out how many of those are the target audience. Let's ride that all the way down to the lead form that's right. Basically it's super simple. Nobody's ever tracked the press releases, the articles or any of the earned media content, the way people have tracked banner ads or e-commerce emails. Therefore this line of business never get revenue credit. It stayed over here in the OpEx pile where things like commerce and advertising got dumped onto the revenue pile. Well, you saw the crazy investment shift. So, that's really the more important one, is Comms is finally getting quantified ROI and business's attribution like their commerce and advertising peers for the first time ever in 2018 via what Cision's rolled out. That's the exciting piece. >> I think, I mean, I guess what I hear you saying is that for the first time, the PR actually can be measured, similar to how advertising >> You got it. >> Couldn't be measured then be measured. Now PR or communications can be measured. >> They get measured the same way. And then one other thing. That ad, that press release, down to the business event. This one had $2 million dollars of ad spend, this one had no ad spend. When it goes to convert, in CRM or it goes to convert on a website, this one came from banner ad, this one came from credible third party content. Guess which one, not only had zero ad spend instead of $2 million in ad spend. Guess which one from which source actually converts better. It's the guy that chose to read credible third-party article. He's going to convert in the marketing system way better that somebody who just clicked on the ad. >> Well certainly, I'm biased-- >> So all the way down the funnel, we're talking about real financial impact based on capturing earned media ID, which is pretty exciting. >> Well, I think the more exciting thing is that you're basically taking a value that is unfunded quote by the advertising firm, has no budget basically, or thin budgets, trying to hit an organic, credible outlet which is converting in progression to a buyer, an outcome. That progression is now tracked. But let's just talk about the economics because you're talking about $2 million in spend, it could be $20 million. The ratio between ad spend and conversion to this new element you mentioned is different. You're essentially talking about the big mega trend, which is organic content. Meaning connecting to sources. >> That's right. >> That flow. Of course, we believe and we, at the Cube, everyone's been seeing that with our business. Let's talk about that dynamic because this is not a funded operationalized piece yet, so we've been seeing, in the industry, PR and comms becoming more powerful. So, the Chief Communication Officer isn't just rolling out press releases, although they have to do that to communicate. You've got medium posts now, you've got multiple channels. A lot of places to put the story. So the Chief Communication Officer really is the Chief Storyteller Officer, Not necessarily the CMO. >> Emphatically. >> The Martech Stack kind of tracking. So talk about that dynamic. How is the Chief Communication Officer role change or changing? Why is that important and what should people be thinking about, if they are a Chief Communication Officer? >> You know, it's interesting. There's a, I'm just going to call it an actual contradiction on this front. When you and I were getting out of our undergrad, 7 out of 10 times that CCO, the Chief Communication Officer, worked for the CEO and 30% of time other. Yet the role was materially narrow. The role has exploded. You just said it pretty eloquently. This role has really exploded and widened its aperture. Right now though 7 out of 10 of them actually do work for the CMO, which is a pretty interesting contradiction. And only 30% of them work for the CEO. Despite the fact that from an organizational stand point, that kind of counter intuitive org move has been made. It doesn't really matter because, so much of what you just said too, you was in marketing's purview or around brand or around reputation or around telling the story or around even owning the key assets. Key assets isn't that beautiful Budweiser frog commercial they played on Super Bowl anymore. The key assets are what's getting done over in the communications, in part. So, from a storytelling standpoint, from an ownership of the narrative, from a, not just a product or a service or promotion, but the whole company, the whole brand reputation, the goodwill, all of that is comms. Therefore you're seeing comms take the widest amount of real estate around the boardroom table than they've ever had. Despite the fact that they don't sit in the chair as much. I mentioned that just because I find it very interesting. Comms has never been more empowered, never had a wider aperture. >> But budget wise, they're not really that loaded up with funding. >> And to my earlier point, it's because they couldn't show. Super strategic. Showing ROI. >> So, showing ROI is critical. >> Not the quality of clippings. >> It was the Maslow of Hierarchy of Needs if you can just show me that I put a quarter in and I got a dollar out. Like the ads and the e-commerce folks do. It simply drives the drives me. >> So take us through some of those analytics because people who know about comms, the old school comms people who are doing this, they should really be thinking about what their operation is because, can I get an article in the Wall Street Journal? Can Silicon Angle write about us? I've got to get more clippings. That tend to be the thing. Did we get the press release out on time? They're not really tied into some of the key marketing mix pieces. They tend to be kind of a narrow scope. Those metrics were pretty clear. What are the new metrics? What's the new operational playbook.? >> Yeah, we call those Vanity Metrics. I cared about theoretical reach. Hey, Yahoo tells me I reached 222 billion people, so I plug in 222 billion people. I reached more people than there are on the planet with this PR campaign. I needed to get to the basic stuff like how many people did I actually reach, number one. But they don't, they do theoretical reach. They work in things like sentiment. Well, I'm going to come up with, 100 reporters wrote about me. I'm going to come up with, how many of them I thought were positive, negative, neutral. Sentiment analysis, they measure number of reporters or hits versus their competitors and say, Proctor and Gamble rolled out this diaper product, how did I do this five days? How much did Proctor and Gamble diapers get written about versus Craft diapers versus Unilever's. Share a voice. Not irrelevant metrics. But not metrics the CEO and the CFO are going to invest in. >> Conversion to brand or sales, those kind of things? >> They never just never existed. Those never existed. Now when we can introduce the same exact metrics that the commerce and the ad folks do and say, I can tell you exactly how many people. I can tell you exactly who they were, demographic, firmographic, lifestyle, you name it. I can tell you who the audience is you're reaching. I can tell you exactly what they do. When those kind of people read those kind of articles or those kind of people read those kind of press releases, they go to these destinations, they take these behaviors. And because I can track that all the way down to whatever that success metric is, which could be a lead form if I'm B2B for pipe. It could be a e-commerce store from B2C. It could be a rating or review or a user generation content gourd. It could be a sign up and register, if I'm trying to get database names. Whatever the business metric is. That's what the commerce and the ad people do all day every day. That's why they are more funded than ever. The fact that press releases, articles, tweets, blogs, the fact that the earned media stuff has never been able to do those things is why they just continue to suffer and have had a real lack of investment prices going on for the last 20 year. >> Talk about the trend around-- >> It's simple stuff. >> I know, if you improve the ROI, you get more budget. >> It really is that simple. >> That's been the challenge. I think PR is certainly becoming, comms is becoming more powerful. People know I talk about it all the time. I think comms is the new CMO I think command and control and organic content work together in the organic. We've seen it first hand in our business. But, it's an issue of tech savviness and also vision. A lot of people just are uncomfortable shifting to the new realities. >> That's for sure. >> What are some of the people tech savvy look at when they look at say revamping comms platform or strategy versus say old school? >> I'll give you two answers on that, John. Here is one thing that is good for us, that 7 out of 10 to the CCOs work for the CMO. Because when I was in this seat starting to light that fire under the CMO for the first time, which was not that long ago, and they were not tech savvy, and they were not sophisticated. They didn't know how to do this stuff either. That was a good 10 year journey to get the CMO from not sophisticated to very sophisticated. Now they're one of the more sophisticated lines of business in the world. But that was a slog. >> So are we going to see a Comms Stack? Like Martech, ComTech. >> ComTech is the decision communication Cloud, is ComTech. So we did it. We've built the Cloud stack. Again like I said, just like Adobe has the tech stack for marketing, Cision has the tech stack for comms, and we've replicated that. But because the CCO works for the CMO and the CMO's already been through this. Been through this with Ad Techs, been through this with MarTech, been through this with eCommerce, been through this with Web. You know, I've got a three or four year sophistication path this time just because >> The learnings are there >> The company's already done it everywhere else. The boss has already done it everywhere else. >> So the learnings are there from the MarTech so it's a pretty easy leap to take? >> That's exactly right. >> It's just-- >> How CommTech works is shocking. Incredibly similar to how MarTech and AdTech work. A lot of it is the same technology, just being applied different. >> That's good news >> So, the adoption curve for us is a fantastic thing. It's a really good thing for us that 70% of them work for CMOs because the CMO is the most impatient person on the planet, to get this over because the CMO is sick of doing customer journeys or omni channel across just paid and owned. They recognize that the most influential thing to influence you, it's not their emails, it's not their push notifications, It's not their ads. It's recognizing which credible third-party content you read, getting them into that, so that they're influencing you. >> It's kind of like Google PageRank in the old days. This source is more relevant than that one, give it more weight. >> And now all of a sudden if I have my Cision ID, I can plug in the more weight stuff under your profile. I want to let him go across paid and owned too, I materially improve the performance of the paid and owned because I'm putting in the really important signal versus what's sitting over there in the DMP or the CDP, which is kind of garbage. That's really important. >> I really think. >> I thinks you've got a home run here. I think you've really cracked the code on this. I think you are absolutely right on the money with comms and CommsTech. I see it all the time. In my years of experiences, it's so obvious. Then again, the tailwind is that they've been through the MarTech. The question I have for you is cultural shift. That's a big one. So, I'm out evangelizing all the time about the CUBE Cloud and some of the things we're doing. I run into the deer in the headlights on one side, what do you mean? And then people like, I believe, I totally understand. The believers and the non believers. What's the cultural shift? Because some chief comms op, they're very savvy, progressive, we've got to make the shift. How do they get the ship to turn? What are some of the cultural challenges? >> And boy is that right. I felt the same thing, getting more doing it with the CMO. A lot of people kept their head in the sand until they got obsoleted. They didn't know. Could they not see the train coming? They didn't want to see the train coming. Now you go look at the top 100 CMOs in the world today. Pretty different bunch than who those top 100 CMOs were 10 years ago. Really different bunch. History's repeating itself over here too. You've got the extremely innovative CCOs that are driving that change and transformation. You've got the deer in the headlight, okay, I know I need to do this, but I'm not sure how, and you do have your typical, you know, nope, I've got my do not disturb sign and police tape over my office. I won't even let you in my door. I don't want to hear about it. You've got all flavors. The good news is we are well past the half point where the innovators are starting actually to deploy and show results, the deer in the headlights are starting to innovate, and these folks are at least opening up the door and taking down some tape. >> Is there pressure on the agency side now? A lot of agencies charge a lot of monthly billings for these clients, the old school thing. Some are trying to be progressive and do more services. Have you seen, with the Cision Cloud and things that you're doing, that you're enabling, those agencies seem to be more productive? >> Yes. >> Are the client's putting pressure on those agencies so they see more value? Talk about the agency dynamic. >> That's also a virtuous cycle too, right? That cycle goes from, it's a Bell Curve. At the beginning of the bell curve, customers have no clue about the communications. They go to their agencies for advice. So, you have to educate the agencies on how to say nice things about you. By the time you're at the Bell Curve, the client's know about the tech or they've adopted the tech, and the agencies realize, oh, I can monetize the hell out of this. They need strategy and services and content and creative and campaign. This is yet another good old fashioned >> High gross profit. >> A buck for the tech means six bucks for me as the service agency. At the bottom, over here, I'll never forget this when we did our modern marketing experiences, Erik, the CMO of Clorox said, hey, to all you agencies out there, now that we're mature, you know, we choose our our agency based on their fluency around our tech stack. So it goes that violently and therefore, the agencies really do need to try to get fluent. The ones that do, really reap rewards because there is a blatant amount of need as the line of business customer tries to get from here to here. And the agency is the is the very first place that that customer is going to go to. >> So, basically the agency-- >> The customer has first right of refusal to go provide these services and monetize them. >> So, the agency has to keep up. >> They certainly do. >> Because, if the game gets changed by speed, it's accelerated >> If they keep up, yup. >> Value is created. If they don't have their running shoes on, they're out. >> If they keep up and they stay fluent, then they're going to be great. The last thing back in the things. We've kind of hit this. This is one of those magic points I've been talking about for 20 years. When the CFO or the CEO or the CMO walk down to the CCOs office and say, where are we on this, 'cause it's out in the wild now, there are over 1200 big brands doing this measurement, Cision ID, CommsTech stuff. It's getting written about by good old fashioned media. Customer says, wow, I couldn't do this for 50 years, now I am, and look what I just did to my Comms program. That gets read. The world's the same place as it always has been. You and I read that. We go down to our comms department and say, wow, I didn't know that was possible, where are we on this? So the Where Are We On This wave is coming to communications, which is an accelerant. >> It's an accountability-- >> Now it's accountability, and therefore, the urgency to get fluent and changed. So now they're hiring up quantums and operations and statisticians and database people just like the marketers did. The anatomy of a communications department is starting to like half science half art, just like happened in marketing. Whereas before that, it was 95% art and 5% science. But it's getting to be 50/50. >> Do you have any competition? >> We have, just like always. >> You guys pretty much have PR Newswire, a lot of big elements there. >> We do. >> You've got a good foothold. >> This is just an example. Even though Marketo is part of Adobe, giant. And Eloqua is part of Oracle, giant and Pardot is part of Salesforce. You've got three goliaths in marketing automation. Hubspot's still sticking around. PeerPlay, marketing Automation. You can just picture it. CRM giants, Microsoft and Salesforce have eaten the world Zendesk's still kicking around. It's a little PeerPlay. That equivalent exists. I have nobody that's even one fifth as big as I am, or as global or complete. But I do have some small, point specific solution providers. They're still hanging out there. >> The thing is, one, first you're a great leader. You've seen the moving on the marking tech side. You've got waves of experience under your belt. But I think what's interesting is that like the Web 1.0, having websites and webpages, Web 2.0 and social networks. That was about the first generation. Serve information, create Affiliate programs, all kind of coded tracking. You mentioned all that. I over-simplified it, but you get the idea. Now, every company needs a new capability. They need to stand up media infra structure. What does that mean? They're going to throw a podcast, they're going to take their content, put them into multiple channels. That's a comms function. Now comms is becoming the new CMO-like capability in this earned channel. So, your Cloud becomes that provisioning entity for companies to stand up capabilities without waiting. Is that the vision? >> You've nailed it. And that is one of the key reasons why you have to have a tech stack. That's a spot on one, another one. Early in my career, the 20 influences that mattered, they were all newspaper reporters or TV folks. There was only 20 of them. I had a Rolodex. so I could take each one of them out for a three Martini lunch, they'd write something good about me. >> Wish is was that easy now. >> Now, you have thousands of influencers across 52 channels, and they change in real time, and they're global in nature. It's another example of where, well, if you don't automate that with tech and by the way. >> You're left behind. >> If you send out digital content they talk back to you in real time. You have to actually not only do influencer identification, outreach and curation, you've got to do real time engagement. >> There's no agility. >> There's none. >> Zero agility. >> None, exactly. >> There's no like Dev Ops mindset in there at all. >> Then the speed with which, it's no longer okay for comms to call the agency and say, give me a ClipBook, I've got to get it to my CEO by Friday. That whole start the ClipBook on Tuesday, I've got to have the ClipBook, the physical ClipBook on the CEO as an example. Nope, if I'm not basically streaming my senior executives in real time, curated and analyzed as to what's important and what it means, I can't do that without a tech stack. >> Well, Andy Cunningham was on the Cube. >> This whole thing has been forced to get modernized by cloud technology and transformation >> Andy Cunningham, a legend in the comms business who did all Steve Jobs comms, legend. She basically said on The Cube, it's not about waiting for the clips to create the ClipBook, create your own ClipBook and get it out there. Then evaluate and engage. This is the new command and control with digital assets. >> Now, it's become the real-time, curated feed that never stops. It sure as hell better not. Because comms is in trouble if it does. >> Well this is a great topic. But let's have you in this, I can go deep on this. I think this is a really important shift, and you guys are the only ones that are on it at this level. I don't think the Salesforce and the Adobe yet, I don't think they're nimble enough to go after this wave. I think they're stuck on their wave and they're making a lot of money. >> You know John, paid media and owned media. The Google Marketing Cloud, that SAP Marketing Cloud, Adobe, Oracle, Salesforce Marketing Clouds. They don't do anything in earned. Nothing. This is one of the reasons I jumped because I knew this needed to happen. But, you know, they're also chasing much bigger pots of money. Marketing and Advertising is still a lot more money. We're working on it to grow the pie for comms. But, bottom line is, they're chasing the big markets as I was at Oracle. And they're still pretty much in a violent arms race against each other. Salesforce is still way more focused on what Adobe's doing. >> You're just on a different wave. >> So, we're just over here doing this, building a billion dollar cloud leader, that is mission critical to everyone of their customers. They're going to end up being some pretty import partners to us, because they've been too focused on the big arms race against each other, in paid and owned and have not had the luxury to even go here. >> Well I think this wave that you're on is going to be really big. I think they don't see it, in my opinion, or can't get there. With the right surfboard, to use a surfing analogy, there's going to be a big wave. Thanks for sharing your insights. >> Absolutely. >> While you're here, get the plug in for Cision. What's going on, what's next? What's the big momentum? Get the plug in for the company. What are you guys still going to do? >> Plugin for the company. The company has acquired a couple of companies in January. You might see, one of which is Falcon. Basically Falcon is one of the big four in the land of Hootsuite, Sprinklr, Spredfast. Cloud companies do this. Adobe has Creative Cloud, Document Cloud, Parking Cloud. Salesforce has Sales Cloud, Service Cloud, Marketing Cloud. Cision has just become a multi cloud company. We now have the Cision Social Cloud and the Cision Communications Cloud. And we're going to go grab a couple hundred million dollars of stuff away from Sprinklr, Hootsuite and collapse social into this. Most of social is earned as well. So, look for a wing spread, into another adjacent market. I think that's number one. Then look for publishing of the data. That's probably going to be the most exciting thing because we just talked about, again our metrics and capabilities you can buy But, little teaser. If we can say, in two months here's the average click through on a Google ad, YouTube ad, a banner ad, I'll show it to you on a Blog, a press release, an article. Apples to apples. Here is the conversion rate. If I can start becoming almost like an eMarketer or publisher on what happens when people read earned, there's going to be some unbelievable stats and they're going to be incredibly telling, and it's going to drive where are we on that. So this is going to be the year. >> It's a new digital advertising format. It's a new format. >> That's exactly right. >> It's a new digital advertising format. >> And its one when the CEO understands that he or she can have it for earned now, the way he's had it for marketing and advertising, that little conversation walking down the hall. In thousands of companies where the CCO or the VP of PR looks up and the CEO is going where are we on that? That's the year that that can flip switches, which I'm excited about. >> Every silo function is now horizontally connected with data, now measured, fully instrumented. The value will be there and whoever can bring the value gets the budget. That's the new model. Kevin Ackroyd, CEO of Cision, changing the game in the shift around the Chief Communications Officer and how that is becoming more tech savvy. Really disrupting the business by measuring earned media. A big wave that's coming. Of course, it's early, but it's going to be a big one. Kevin, thanks for coming on. >> My pleasure, John, thank you. >> So, CUBE conversation here in Palo Alto Thanks for watching. >> Thanks John. (upbeat music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office, in Boston, Massachusetts, it's the CUBE. Now, here's your host, Stu Miniman. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to a special presentation of CUBE Conversation here from our Boston area studio. Welcome back to the program from ClearSky Data, Ellen Rubin the CEO and Laz Vekiarides who is the CTO. Laz and Ellen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Us too, nice to be back. >> Hi, thanks for having us. >> All right, so, always good to talk to a local company, we talked about technology, I was actually in the Seaport district earlier, recently, and you know there's a lot happening in this space, as we know, it doesn't all happen, in Seattle for the cloud, Silicon Valley for all the VCs, so Ellen I've been speaking with your company since its early days-- >> Stealth mode, yeah. >> Stealth mode. First time I met you in person was at the Amazon reinvent shows, so still one of the focal points of the cloud and everything that happening there. But give us the update, you've got some new fundings, some new partnerships, tell us what's happening with ClearSky. >> Absolutely, I'm really happy to be back. So yeah, we've been, last night been building this company together, we started in 2013 with the, you know, sitting in a room with a white board but the company has really been actively funded and kind of building customers and our service offering since 2014. And we've just seen a tremendous amount of growth especially in the last year. So we're excited to be able to share that we are raising a 20 million funding round, and it includes some new investors, strategic investors as well as some of our existing investors from General Catalyst and Highland and Polaris. So it's very important for us but it's also great for our customers because it gives us a chance now to be in more places and have more people on our team to really grow and add to the support the operation of what we're doing. So that's kind of part A. And we're really looking forward to doing that. We've added a head of our sales organization, our chief revenue officer, Roger Cummings, and so we've really kind of filled out our team and our growing as a company overall. So that's kind of part A. >> So yeah congratulations on the numbers. The other piece, I think back to the first discussions we had when you talked about living in lots of environments and how do you help customers, there was somebody that you're partnering with now that I believe came up in that first discussion because they've got one of the largest global foot print on the planet that I'm aware of. >> Indeed, so yeah, also today we're announcing our partnership with Equinex and we've actually been working, we've been talking with Equinex since we were in stealth mode and we've been working with them over the past several years already in a couple of locations. And we can talk in a lot of detail about sort of where the great alignment fit is, but the news for us is that we're now gonna be able to really expand the reach of our service across the rest of the United States. So we're gonna triple the number of locations, and we're gonna be basically anywhere our customers need us to be, as you know we are a metro-based service so it's very important from a latency and access that we be in more locations. And we see it as basically a great jumping off for filling out the initial vision of being across United States and now it's starting to expand that side. >> Yes that's great. Laz, let's pull you in here. If you look at the data piece of it, we understand that latency is clearly important. That's the conversation we've had back in the storage world for a long time. Data has gravity, it's tough to move it, and having some locality is super important. So what are your, for people who aren't as familiar with the company, just give us the thumbnail, architecturally, and tell us what you've been seeing update wise, from a technology standpoint. >> Sure, so, our technology is really metro-based network, so we deliver caching services on the edge to make all of the resources, specifically the data management resources that are far away appear as if they're nearby. Now one of the problem is, as you know with the cloud, is that they are only in certain locations. So unless your nation is in Virginia or you happen to be in the Pacific Northwest, you have a latency problem. And so as a result, some certain types of applications aren't gonna work well. What we've built is really an edge-based data management network. We provide high performance file and block services. To systems at the edge that leverage the cloud for their back ends. And so as a result, you get all of the economics of the cloud and the flexibility that you get with those type of services. But you get the experience of enterprise class functionality and capability's and it's nearby. So you don't miss any of the things that you are kind of used to. >> All right, Laz I want you to help explain something, when you say edge, what does that mean to you and your customers because there are server providers edges, there are kind of the IO key end devices edges, there are some things in between there, so what specifically are you helping with? >> So this is true it's actually really interesting. So we have a very specific definition of edge, we call it the data center edge. And hence our alignment with Equinix, they are in this metro facilities when you look at our architecture we're either putting an edge appliance either in an Equinix facility or in a customer's facility and then tethering that into the Equinix facility. So that last hundred or so miles around an Equinix facility is our edge and that is gonna be our definition now. That could change over time, just like everything else in the cloud changes, because we basically have built software that can run in any type of Linux environment with some monocom activity but in our current market push, our edge is really the data center edge. >> Okay, Ellen I love that that really fit in into the discussions I've been having a lot over the last year or so. People talk about hybrid cloud when they talk about multicloud. It's, they're using lots of SAS, they're usually using more than one public cloud provider and then they have their own resources, and their data center often times has a rack in Equinix and leveraging things like direct connect from Amazon, the equivalent for Google and Microsoft, or expanding those definitions. Bring us inside what are you hearing from customers. I love to hear what you can share about specific customers or in general what's the need that they have and where you fit in into all of it. >> Yeah, no, you're totally on point for what we see everyday which is we deal with medium and large enterprises. So our customers are in health care, they're in financial services, they're in legal services and also in managed service providers now as a newer market for us. So we have customers that include companies like Partners HealthCare, Mass General Hospital, Nuance Communications. We've just added Unitas Global as a managed service provider. Special Olympics is a customer and some regional hedge firms and law services, like Miles and Stockbridge. So what you can kind of see is that we have this really nice set of experiences that are not just what is Facebook doing or what is Stage3 doing but we kind of have a broad range of what CIO and heads of IT are really struggling with. And it's exactly what you're saying which is the edge to a customer very much depends on how they're thinking about where their application are gonna run, and our philosophy is don't worry about it, we've got you covered, your data is gonna be high performance, low latency, you're totally protected and you can access it from wherever you need to. But for a lot of customers honestly we've seen everything. I won't embarrass anybody specifically but there are still some kind of scary, old data centers out there. There are server closets that are acting as data centers. People still have things in their buildings. And then you've got everything to like world class, Equinix, Colo, that is in Ashburn, or whatever. And then people are obviously trying to adapt multiple shades and flavors of public clouds. And I was just out at a customer's yesterday where the CIO was talking to us about the fact that they have grown through a tremendous amount of acquisition. So they've got one of everything. And then the cloud for them was a bunch of people did a bunch of things in Amazon five years ago. Then they decided to standardize on Azure. They don't really know why they standardize on Azure. And they realized that that was not actually answer for all their problems and then they started to think about how Google might actually be a much better fit because of some of the analytics works they're trying to do, and by the way they've got data centers all over the world. That is a very typical scenario that we see everyday and for the customers hedging their bets and not being locked into anything is really, really important to them, because the application keep evolving and new things are getting in some ways built for the cloud, but sometimes the edge actually is still critical, right? In terms of where the actual physical source systems are. >> Yeah, so, I would say the elephant in the room is that kind of how do I get my arms around this multi cloud environment and there's not one company that's gonna solve all of these issues. I've had everything-- >> And even if they did, would you really put everything in one cloud? Probably you wouldn't? >> Right, but it's the, okay, I've got all of these clouds out there and all of these things, I have licensing issues I have to worry about, I have identity management I have to worry about, there's the overall management of it. And it seems primarily it's the networking piece that you're helping with, maybe explain a little bit more, Laz it probably comes to you as to that elephant there, it's ClearSky data, we solve your networking challenge for multicloud and it's more than just that. >> Right, so, it's sometimes embarrassingly I actually started my career in the networking space and so a lot-- >> It's okay, I did, too, it's a training. >> So when Ellen and I started talking about what we wanted to do, we were really focused on networking. Maybe I had enough of storage. And so a lot of what we discovered was that the network is an extremely sort of undersold part of the overall cloud strategy of any company. If you really want to go to the cloud this is really about moving huge amount of data back and forth from these locations. And so we've built a very, very high performance one-hub network from our pops right to all of the various regions of the public clouds. So what this basically means for our customers is that they don't have to worry about the internet, they don't have to worry about the security that they need to set up in order to get into the cloud, and the amount of throughput that we can get through is really astonishing. So we've really built a system that can maximize this network pipes. So even our smallest customers can move in excess of 20 terabytes a day back and forward from the cloud. So this becomes a really really interesting solution if you have a lot of source system or you have a lot of data to move. We can outrun that Amazon truck. >> So I want you to, I think back five years ago, I heard Equinix, some of the other large data centers, they were like, "Oh we're just gonna give you "a cloud market place and there'll be all these services "and if you need to access something, we'll just be able to "throw a 10 gig wire between somebody's connections." It sounded really good but it sounds like you're helping fill a gap. Maybe explain what that is. >> Well so most of the networking pieces are actually very expensive, very complicated to set up, first of all. So you also have port charges and all sorts of high availability issues that you need to resolve with each one of the clouds. Additionally, although they are sort of on demand, you're not using all those bandwidths all the time and you don't know when you're gonna need it. What we've done on the network is to make it possible for you to utilize 40 gigabytes of throughput, our 40 gigabytes of throughput, into the clouds pretty much whenever you need it. So for example, latency from Boston to Amazon niche, for us 11 milliseconds. For most people if they don't have direct connect at some exuberant price they're gonna end up experiencing in the hundreds of milliseconds if they're going over the internet. So that and the bandwidth guarantee is you think you have a one gigabyte internet connection but that's not really what all the elements along your path are gonna provide you. So there's a lot of variability and we make that all go away we make the management go away, the security issues go away, and so it's totally seamless. You just need to connect into our network with our edge, it's as if the cloud really isn't there. And if you need to access your resources in the cloud, we can bring your data to EC2 and you can connect instances to it. So the whole process of moving things back and forth is so seamless and transparent, you don't just manage it. It's all sort of a byproduct of the architecture. >> I was just gonna add, Equinix invested early and bet early on becoming a cloud hub. This idea of having a cloud exchange and a lot of the other services that are plugged in, is a tremendous value to customers. But what we do see is that there is still a lot of customers out there and I'm sure this will persist for a while where there's still even yet further distributed last mile issues, and customers are moving into Equinix and Colocation sites for all the benefits that they bring and we take full advantage of that and help drive that from our side. But we also see that there are things that are just not moving and need to stay put and it's either because of legacy reasons, compliance reasons, they don't want to invest to re-platform things. There are a lot of reasons that are out there and because we both come from the enterprise infrastructure world, that does not scare us. So we understand that what you have to do is you have to meet the customers where they live, right? And you have to make it easy and accessible and as Laz has described in kind of a turn key situation where however your application wants to run and be best situated, we're gonna make sure that your data is available to you. >> Yeah you bring out some great points there. A line I used many times recently is there was the promise that cloud was going to be simple and cheap and it turned out to be neither of those. What do you see some of the biggest challenges, Ellen, we start with you maybe, what are your customers facing, what do you excited about that's actually made progress the last few years, and what do we still need to do as an industry as a whole? >> Well I always have to say this and of course it makes me just feel completely so old but I've been in the clouds since 2008, right? My last company's cloud switch was kind of that early, okay, there's a thing it's called the cloud, it happens to be Amazon but there'll be other clouds too. So you have to say fast-forwarding 10 years, a lot of really good progress has been made and it is for sure the case that now when you talk to enterprise customers and to the CIOs they're in the cloud, they've adopted the cloud, the cloud is in their mental picture of where things are gonna be, they've accepted the fact that they have developer groups are already in the cloud and have been for a very long time and it's part of their portfolio now, to make sure it's protected and highly available and compliant. So I think that is progress. The best thing that ever happened was, I don't have to convince people the cloud is more secure than what they're doing on Prem, because everybody kinda knows that, so that's good news. We don't have to have that conversation 20 times again et cetera. But what I do see that's surprising to me is that still some of the fundamental problems are still problems. Getting my data into the cloud. You think, c'mon we've got lots of solutions, tools, and toolkits and stuff like that. But it's still a very major problem. Networking of course still being a key issue for customers. I don't want to rollout a bunch of new lines, I don't want to have to hire a snowmobile, I don't want to- you know, rebuild everything form scratch. So that is still I think shows up more than I would have guessed. Right now what we see is there's a lot of focus on operational things, in terms of how to optimize what turned out to be the high cost of the cloud. Every one of our customers knows if that pull data back from the cloud that's not good. So they've learned that, they've found that out and they were kind of a little surprised the first time the bill came in and it was really high. So this idea of having tools that allow optimization of using the cloud more cost-effectively and figuring out which cloud is going to be more cost-effective based on the access patterns. There's more awareness of it but there's still a lot of struggling with that. >> Laz, would love your comments on that. >> Well there are, the whole notion of cost-optimization is deeply embedded in our technology. Every time we have a conversation with a customer the first thing they ask, they ask about egress fees, is it really just the same price no matter how much I use it? And they think about all these different, like things about IOPS for example. Because the cloud providers have sort of indoctrinated the market to think about what their IOPS needs are. In order to get them to the appropriate price point. So there's a lot of optimization there, that I still don't think that the customers really got. How many people really understand how many IOPS a particular application really needs? And how many should I buy and if I buy the wrong number oh my god everything is messed up. So the ability to solve those types of problems for people. In a way that it becomes a non-issue is still. Certainly we're doing it for storage but there are all sorts of issues just like that for compute, there are all sorts of issues like that for networking as well. So anyone who's trying to build an application on top of this platform really needs to think about those things. Thankfully our customers don't have to worry about a whole slew of things because we've actually arbitrized out all of the unusual aspects of terrace of network providers versus cloud providers, access fees and transaction fees et cetera. Anyone whose doing this need to think about this in a very analytical way, which I don't think IT has been used to up until now. They overbuy as you know, and they continue to overbuy and as long as there's no complaints about performance, and there's no complaints about excesses in cost everything is fine. That's not how the cloud works. I think we're getting to the point now where any serious move to the cloud now is going to require a lot more thinking and a lot more analysis. There's still a mentality that the cloud is cheaper, and then when people try it, they quickly realize "Oh my god look at this bill." And it's forever, it's not like you can just shut everything off. It's every month. It's not just like you spent forty thousand dollars in a month and you can shut it off. So it's a difficult problem and I don't think IT's prepared, in general. >> I think one of the things we've seen at ClearSky over the last several years is the willingness that customers have to use the cloud for data protection. I think when we started it was sort of, you know, everything's going to the cloud, the whole thing. Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead, right? I think a lot of what people are actually doing is archival back-up DR, those are comfortable, state of the industry is sort of there should be a connection between the, wherever the Prem is for the customer and then out to the cloud for things that are longer tail kinds of things. The problem is, what if you have to pull the data back? So these are thing we think about everyday. >> Right, Ellen want to give me the final word, 20 million dollar phrase, the partnership with Equinex that's going to increase availability. What's this mean to your customers and to the company ClearSky as we look forward. >> Well I think one of the things that's true about the fact that we are a network centric kind of company is that the power of the network is in how many access points you have. So what this means is that customers who are national, and then global will have more opportunity now to be able to access things with ClearSky. And to grow and expand with us, which is great. We've seen tremendous expansion business this year. Really like a huge percentage has already expanded at least once if not multiple times with us. And that begs a lot of questions, well that's great you're here with us in this metro how do we get across the rest of our locations. So I think that's very valuable and also obviously from our side making sure we can handle the care and support that our customers are expecting. We're fully managed 24 by 7. So the bar is high, right? This is not the, here's a toolkit in the cloud go figure it out, this is we take care of everything we're SLAU and that's it. And obviously the customer wants to see that scale. >> Well Ellen and Laz, congratulations on all the progress you've made and always great to catch up with you on all the updates. >> Great to see you. >> Yeah, great to see you. >> Alright and thank you so much for watching and be sure to check out The Cube .net for all of our coverage including. We're at all the cloud shows. Huge show at Amazon Reinvent at the end of November be sure to tune into that and everything else. Feel free to reach out if you've got questions for our team or teams that you'd like us to cover other events we should be at. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching the CUBE.