>>Okay, we're back with the hybrid Cloud power panel. I'm Dave Ante, and with me our Eric Lockard, who's the corporate vice president of Microsoft Azure Specialized Thomas Corn's, the senior vice president of products at Nutanix. And Indu Carey, who's the Senior Vice President of engineering, NCI and nnc two at Nutanix. Gentlemen, welcome to the cube. Thanks for coming on. >>It's to be >>Here. Have us, >>Eric, let's, let's start with you. We hear so much about cloud first. What's driving the need for hybrid cloud for organizations today? I mean, I not just ev put everything in the public cloud. >>Yeah, well, I mean the public cloud has a bunch of inherent advantages, right? I mean it's, it has effectively infinite capacity, the ability to, you know, innovate without a lot of upfront costs, you know, regions all over the world. So there is a, a trend towards public cloud, but you know, not everything can go to the cloud, especially right away. There's lots of reasons. Customers want to have assets on premise, you know, data gravity, sovereignty and so on. And so really hybrid is the way to achieve the best of both worlds, really to kind of leverage the assets and investments that customers have on premise, but also take advantage of, of the cloud for bursting or regionality or expansion, especially coming outta the pandemic. We saw a lot of this from work from home and, and video conferencing and so on, driving a lot of cloud adoption. So hybrid is really the way that we see customers achieving the best of both worlds. >>Yeah, it makes sense. I wanna, Thomas, if you could talk a little bit, I don't wanna inundate people with the acronyms, but, but the Nutanix cloud clusters on Azure, what is that? What problems does it solve? Give us some color there please. >>Yeah, there, so, you know, cloud clusters on Azure, which we actually call NC two to make it simple and SONC two on Azure is really our solutions for hybrid cloud, right? And you about hybrid cloud, highly desirable customers want it. They, they know this is the right way to do it for them, given that they wanna have workloads on premises at the edge, any public clouds, but it's complicated. It's hard to do, right? And the first thing that you did with just silos, right? You have different infrastructure that you have to go and deal with. You have different teams, different technologies, different areas of expertise and dealing with different portals, networkings get complicated, security gets complicated. And so you heard me say this already, you know, hybrid can be complex. And so what we've done, we then c to Azure is we make that simple, right? We allow teams to go and basically have a solution that allows you to go and take any application running on premises and move it as is to any Azure region where Ncq is available. Once it's running there, you keep the same operating model, right? And that's, so that's actually super valuable to actually go and do this in a simple fashion, do it faster, and basically do hybrid in a more cost effective fashion, know for all your applications. And that's really what's really special about NC two Azure today. >>So Thomas, just a quick follow up on that. So you're, you're, if I understand you correctly, it's an identical experience. Did I get that right? >>This is, this is the key for us, right? Is when you think you're sending on premises, you are used to way of doing things of how you run your applications, how you operate, how you protect them. And what we do here is we extend the Nutanix operating model two workloads running in Azure using the same core stack that you're running on premises, right? So once you have a cluster deploying C to an Azure, it's gonna look like the same cluster that you might be running at the edge or in your own data center using the same tools you, using the same admin constructs to go protect the workloads, make them highly available, do disaster recovery or secure them. All of that becomes the same. But now you are in Azure, and this is what we've spent a lot of time working with Americanist teams on, is you actually have access now to all of those suites of Azure services in from those workloads. So now you get the best of both world, you know, and we bridge them together and you get seamless access of those services between what you get from Nutanix, what you get from Azure. >>Yeah. And as you alluded to, this is traditionally been non-trivial and people have been looking forward to this for, for quite some time. So Indu, I want to understand from an engineering perspective, your team had to work with the Microsoft team, and I'm sure there was this, this is not just a press releases or a PowerPoint, you had to do some some engineering work. So what specific engineering work did you guys do and what's unique about this relative to other solutions in the marketplace? >>So let me start with what's unique about this, and I think Thomas and Eric both did a really good job of describing that the best way to think about what we are delivering jointly with Microsoft is that it speeds of the journey to the public cloud. You know, one way to think about this is moving to the public cloud is sort of like remodeling your house. And when you start remodeling your house, you know, you find that you start with something and before you know it, you're trying to remodel the entire house. And that's a little bit like what journey to the public cloud sort of starts to look like when you start to refactor applications. Because it wasn't, most of the applications out there today weren't designed for the public cloud to begin with. NC two allows you to flip that on its head and say that take your application as is and then lift and shift it to the public cloud, at which point you start the refactor journey. >>And one of the things that you have done really well with the NC two on Azure is that NC two is not something that sits by Azure side. It's fully integrated into the Azure fabric, especially the software defined network and SDN piece. What that means is that, you know, you don't have to worry about connecting your NC two cluster to Azure to some sort of an net worth pipe. You have direct access to the Azure services from the same application that's now running on an NC two cluster. And that makes your refactoring journey so much easier. Your management plan looks the same, your high performance notes let the NVMe notes, they look the same. And really, I mean, other than the facts that you're doing something in the public cloud, all the nutanix's goodness that you're used to continue to receive that, there is a lot of secret sauce that we have had to develop as part of this journey. >>But if we had to pick one that really stands out, it is how do we take the complexity, the network complexity of a public cloud, in this case Azure, and make it as familiar to Nutanix's customers as the VPC construc, the virtual private cloud construc that allows them to really think of that on-prem networking and the public cloud networking in very similar terms. There's a lot more that's gone on behind the scenes. And by the way, I'll tell you a funny sort of anecdote. My dad used to say when I drew up that, you know, if you really want to grow up, you have to do two things. You have to like build a house and you have to marry your kid off to someone. And I would say our dad a third do a flow development with the public cloud provider of the partner. This has been just an absolute amazing journey with Eric and the Microsoft team, and you're very grateful for their >>Support. I, I need NC two for my house. I live in a house that was built in, it's 1687 and we connect all to new and it's, it is a bolt on, but, but, but, and so, but the secret sauce, I mean there's, there's a lot there, but is it a PAs layer? You didn't just wrap it in a container and shove it into the public cloud, You've done more than that. I'm inferring, >>You know, the, it's actually an infrastructure layer offering on top of fid. You can obviously run various types of platform services. So for example, down the road, if you have a containerized application, you'll actually be able to TA it from OnPrem and run it on C two. But the NC two offer itself, the NCAA offer itself is an infrastructure level offering. And the trick is that the storage that you're used to the high performance storage that you know, define tenants to begin with, the hypervisor that you're used to, the network constructs that you're used to light MI segmentation for security purposes, all of them are available to you on NC two in Azure, the same way that we're used to do on-prem. And furthermore, managing all of that through Prism, which is our management interface and management console also remains the same. That makes your security model easier, that makes your management challenge easier, that makes it much easier for an application person or the IT office to be able to report back to the board that they have started to execute on the cloud mandate and they've done that much faster than they'll be able to otherwise. >>Great. Thank you for helping us understand the plumbing. So now Thomas, maybe we can get to like the customers. What, what are you seeing, what are the use cases that are, that are gonna emerge for the solution? >>Yeah, I mean we've, you know, we've had a solution for a while, you know, this is now new on Azure's gonna extend the reach of the solution and get us closer to the type of use cases that are unique to Azure in terms of those solutions for analytics and so forth. But the kind of key use cases for us, the first one you know, talks about it is a migration. You know, we see customers on that cloud journey. They're looking to go and move applications wholesale from on premises to public cloud. You know, we make this very easy because in the end they take the same concept that are around the application and make them, we make them available Now in the Azure region, you can do this for any applications. There's no change to the application, no networking change. The same IP will work the same whether you're running on premises or in Azure. >>The app stays exactly the same, manage the same way, protected the same way. So that's a big one. And you know, the type of drivers point politically or maybe I wanna go do something different or I wanna go and shut down location on premises, I need to do that with a given timeline. I can now move first and then take care of optimizing the application to take advantage of all that Azure has to offer. So migration and doing that in a simple fashion, in a very fast manner is, is a key use case. Another one, and this is classic for leveraging public cloud force, which are doing on premises, is disaster recovery. And something that we refer to as elastic disaster recovery, being able to go and actually configure a secondary site to protect your on premises workloads. But I think that site sitting in Azure as a small site, just enough to hold the data that you're replicating and then use the fact that you cannot get access to resources on demand in Azure to scale out the environment, feed over workloads, run them with performance, potentially fill them back to on premises and then shrink back the environment in Azure to again, optimize cost and take advantage of elasticity that you get from public cloud models. >>And then the last one, building on top of that is just the fact that you cannot get bursting use cases and maybe running a large environment, typically desktop, you know, VDI environments that we see running on premises and I have, you know, a seasonal requirement to go and actually enable more workers to go get access the same solution. You could do this by sizing for the large burst capacity on premises wasting resources during the rest of the year. What we see customers do is optimize what they're running on premises and get access to resources on demand in Azure and basically move the workload and now basically get combined desktop running on premises desktops running on NC two on Azure, same desktop images, same management, same services, and do that as a burst use case during, say you're a retailer that has to go and take care of your holiday season. You know, great use case that we see over and over again for our customers, right? And pretty much complimenting the notion of, look, I wanna go to desktop as a service, but right now, now I don't want to refactor the entire application stack. I just won't be able to get access to resources on demand in the right place at the right time. >>Makes sense. I mean this is really all about supporting customers', digital transformations. We all talk about how that was accelerated during the pandemic and, but the cloud is a fundamental component of the digital transformations. And Eric, you, you guys have obviously made a commitment between Microsoft and and Nutanix to simplify hybrid cloud and that journey to the cloud. How should customers, you know, measure that? What does success look like? What's the ultimate vision here? >>Well, the ultimate vision is really twofold. I think the one is to, you know, first is really to ease a customer's journey to the cloud to allow them to take advantage of all the benefits to the cloud, but to do so without having to rewrite their applications or retrain their, their administrators and or, or to obviate their investment that they already have in platforms like, like Nutanix. And so the, the work that companies have done together here, you know, first and foremost is really to allow folks to come to the cloud in the way that they want to come to the cloud and take really the best of both worlds, right? Leverage, leverage their investment in the capabilities of the Nutanix platform, but do so in conjunction with the advantages and and capabilities of of Azure, you know. Second, it is really to extend some of the cloud capabilities down onto the on-premise infrastructure. And so with investments that we've done together with Azure arc for example, we're really extending the Azure control plane down onto on-premise Nutanix clusters and bringing the capabilities that that provides to the Nutanix customer as well as various Azure services like our data services and Azure SQL server. So it's really kind of coming at the problem from, from two directions. One is from kind of traditional on-prem up into the cloud, and then the second is kind of from the cloud leveraging the investment customers have in in on-premise hci. >>Got it. Thank you. Okay, last question. Maybe each of you could just give us one key takeaway for our audience today. Maybe we start with with with with Thomas and then Indu and then Eric you can bring us home. >>Sure. So the key takeaway is, you know, you takes cloud clusters on Azure is ngi, you know, this is something that we've had tremendous demand from our customers, both from the Microsoft side and the Nutanix side going, going back years literally, right? People have been wanting to go and see this, this is now live GA open for business and you know, we're ready to go and engage and ready to scale, right? This is our first step in a long journey in a very key partnership for us at Nutanix. >>Great Indu >>In our Dave. In a prior life about seven or eight, eight years ago, I was a part of a team that took a popular patch preparation software and moved it to the public cloud. And that was a journey that took us four years and probably several hundred million dollars. And if we had had NC two then it would've saved us half the money, but more importantly would've gotten there in one third the time. And that's really the value of this. >>Okay. Eric, bring us home please. >>Yeah, I'll just point out like this is not something that's just both on or something. We, we, we started yesterday. This is something the teams, both companies have been working on together for, for years really. And it's, it's a way of, of deeply integrating Nutanix into the Azure Cloud and with the ultimate goal of, of again, providing cloud capabilities to the Nutanix customer in a way that they can, you know, take advantage of the cloud and then compliment those applications over time with additional Azure services like storage, for example. So it really is a great on-ramp to the cloud for, for customers who have significant investments in, in Nutanix clusters on premise, >>Love the co-engineering and the ability to take advantage of those cloud native tools and capabilities, real customer value. Thanks gentlemen. Really appreciate your time. >>Thank >>You. Thank you. Thank you. >>Okay, keep it right there. You're watching. Accelerate hybrid cloud, that journey with Nutanix and Microsoft technology on the cube. You're leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage >>Organizations are increasingly moving towards a hybrid cloud model that contains a mix of on premises public and private clouds. A recent study confirms 83% of businesses agree that hybrid multi-cloud is the ideal operating model. Despite its many benefits, deploying a hybrid cloud can be challenging, complex, slow and expensive require different skills and tool sets and separate siloed management interfaces. In fact, 87% of surveyed enterprises believe that multi-cloud success will require simplified management of mixed infrastructures >>With Nutanix and Microsoft. Your hybrid cloud gets the best of both worlds. The predictable costs, performance control and data sovereignty of a private cloud and the scalability, cloud services, ease of use and fractional economics of the public cloud. Whatever your use case, Nutanix cloud clusters simplifies IT. Operations is faster and lowers risk for migration projects, lowers cloud TCO and provides investment optimization and offers effortless, limitless scale and flexibility. Choose NC two to accelerate your business in the cloud and achieve true hybrid cloud success. Take a free self-guided 30 minute test drive of the solutions provisioning steps and use cases at nutanix.com/azure td. >>Okay, so we're just wrapping up accelerate hybrid cloud with Nutanix and Microsoft made possible by Nutanix where we just heard how Nutanix is partnering with cloud and software leader Microsoft to enable customers to execute on a true hybrid cloud vision with actionable solutions. We pushed and got the answer that with NC two on Azure, you get the same stack, the same performance, the same networking, the same automation, the same workflows across on-prem and Azure Estates. Realizing the goal of simplifying and extending on-prem workloads to any Azure region to move apps without complicated refactoring and to be able to tap the full complement of native services that are available on Azure. Remember, all these videos are available on demand@thecube.net and you can check out silicon angle.com for all the news related to this announcement and all things enterprise tech. Please go to nutanix.com as of course information about this announcement and the partnership, but there's also a ton of resources to better understand the Nutanix product portfolio. There are white papers, videos, and other valuable content, so check that out. This is Dave Ante for Lisa Martin with the Cube, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. Thanks for watching the program and we'll see you next time.

>>Okay, we're back with the hybrid Cloud power panel. I'm Dave Ante and with me our Eric Lockhart, who's the corporate vice president of Microsoft Azure, Specialized Thomas Corny, the senior vice president of products at Nutanix, and Indu Care, who's the Senior Vice President of engineering, NCI and nnc two at Nutanix. Gentlemen, welcome to the cube. Thanks for coming on. >>It's to >>Be here. Have us, >>Eric, let's, let's start with you. We hear so much about cloud first. What's driving the need for hybrid cloud for organizations today? I mean, I wanna just ev put everything in the public cloud. >>Yeah, well, I mean, the public cloud has a bunch of inherent advantages, right? I mean, it's, it has effectively infinite capacity, the ability to, you know, innovate without a lot of upfront costs, you know, regions all over the world. So there is a, a trend towards public cloud, but you know, not everything can go to the cloud, especially right away. There's lots of reasons. Customers want to have assets on premise, you know, data gravity, sovereignty and so on. And so really hybrid is the way to achieve the best of both worlds, really to kind of leverage the assets and investments that customers have on premise, but also take advantage of, of the cloud for bursting or regionality or expansion, especially coming outta the pandemic. We saw a lot of this from work from home and, and video conferencing and so on, driving a lot of cloud adoption. So hybrid is really the way that we see customers achieving the best of both worlds. >>Yeah, makes sense. I wanna, Thomas, if you could talk a little bit, I don't wanna inundate people with the acronyms, but, but the Nutanix Cloud clusters on Azure, what is that? What problems does it solve? Give us some color there, please. >>That is, so, you know, cloud clusters on Azure, which we actually call NC two to make it simple. And so NC two on Azure is really our solutions for hybrid cloud, right? And you think about the hybrid cloud, highly desirable customers want it. They, they know this is the right way to do for them, given that they wanna have workloads on premises at the edge, any public clouds. But it's complicated. It's hard to do, right? And the first thing that you deal with is just silos, right? You have different infrastructure that you have to go and deal with. You have different teams, different technologies, different areas of expertise and dealing with different portals. Networkings get complicated, security gets complicated. And so you heard me say this already, you know, hybrid can be complex. And so what we've done, we then c to Azure is we make that simple, right? We allow teams to go and basically have a solution that allows you to go and take any application running on premises and move it as is to any Azure region where ncq is available. Once it's running there, you keep the same operating model, right? And that's something actually super valuable to actually go and do this in a simple fashion, do it faster, and basically do, do hybrid in a more cost effective fashion, know for all your applications. And that's really what's really special about NC Azure today. >>So Thomas, just a quick follow up on that. So you're, you're, if I understand you correctly, it's an identical experience. Did I get that right? >>This is, this is the key for us, right? Is when you think you're sending on premises, you are used to way of doing things of how you run your applications, how you operate, how you protect them. And what we do here is we extend the Nutanix operating model two workloads running in Azure using the same core stack that you're running on premises, right? So once you have a cluster deploying C to an Azure, it's gonna look like the same cluster that you might be running at the edge or in your own data center, using the same tools, using, using the same admin constructs to go protect the workloads, make them highly available with disaster recovery or secure them. All of that becomes the same, but now you are in Azure, and this is what we've spent a lot of time working with Americanist teams on, is you actually have access now to all of those suites of Azure services in from those workloads. So now you get the best of both world, you know, and we bridge them together and you get seamless access of those services between what you get from Nutanix, what you get from Azure. >>Yeah. And as you alluded to, this is traditionally been non-trivial and people have been looking forward to this for, for quite some time. So Indu, I want to understand from an engineering perspective, your team had to work with the Microsoft team, and I'm sure there was this, this is not just a press releases or a PowerPoint, you had to do some some engineering work. So what specific engineering work did you guys do and what's unique about this relative to other solutions in the marketplace? >>So let me start with what's unique about this, and I think Thomas and Eric both did a really good job of describing that the best way to think about what we are delivering jointly with Microsoft is that it speeds up the journey to the public cloud. You know, one way to think about this is moving to the public cloud is sort of like remodeling your house. And when you start remodeling your house, you know, you find that you start with something and before you know it, you're trying to remodel the entire house. And that's a little bit like what journey to the public cloud sort of starts to look like when you start to refactor applications. Because it wasn't, most of the applications out there today weren't designed for the public cloud to begin with. NC two allows you to flip that on its head and say that take your application as is and then lift and shift it to the public cloud, at which point you start the refactor journey. >>And one of the things that you have done really well with the NC two on Azure is that NC two is not something that sits by Azure side. It's fully integrated into the Azure fabric, especially the software defined network and SDN piece. What that means is that, you know, you don't have to worry about connecting your NC two cluster to Azure to some sort of a net worth pipe. You have direct access to the Azure services from the same application that's now running on an C2 cluster. And that makes your refactoring journey so much easier. Your management claim looks the same, your high performance notes let the NVMe notes, they look the same. And really, I mean, other than the facts that you're doing something in the public cloud, all the Nutanix goodness that you're used to continue to receive that, there is a lot of secret sauce that we have had to develop as part of this journey. >>But if we had to pick one that really stands out, it is how do we take the complexity, the network complexity, offer public cloud, in this case Azure, and make it as familiar to Nutanix's customers as the VPC construc, the virtual private cloud construct that allows them to really think of their on-prem networking and the public cloud networking in very similar terms. There's a lot more that's gone on behind the scenes. And by the way, I'll tell you a funny sort of anecdote. My dad used to say when I drew up that, you know, if you really want to grow up, you have to do two things. You have to like build a house and you have to marry your kid off to someone. And I would say our dad a third do a code development with the public cloud provider of the partner. This has been just an absolute amazing journey with Eric and the Microsoft team, and you're very grateful for their support. >>I need NC two for my house. I live in a house that was built and it's 1687 and we connect old to new and it's, it is a bolt on, but, but, but, and so, but the secret sauce, I mean there's, there's a lot there, but is it a PAs layer? You didn't just wrap it in a container and shove it into the public cloud, You've done more than that. I'm inferring, >>You know, the, it's actually an infrastructure layer offering on top of fid. You can obviously run various types of platform services. So for example, down the road, if you have a containerized application, you'll actually be able to tat it from OnPrem and run it on C two. But the NC two offer itself, the NCAA often itself is an infrastructure level offering. And the trick is that the storage that you're used to the high performance storage that you know, define Nutanix to begin with, the hypervisor that you're used to, the network constructs that you're used to light MI segmentation for security purposes, all of them are available to you on NC two in Azure, the same way that we're used to do on-prem. And furthermore, managing all of that through Prism, which is our management interface and management console also remains the same. That makes your security model easier, that makes your management challenge easier, that makes it much easier for an accusation person or the IT office to be able to report back to the board that they have started to execute on the cloud mandate and they have done that much faster than they'll be able to otherwise. >>Great. Thank you for helping us understand the plumbing. So now Thomas, maybe we can get to like the customers. What, what are you seeing, what are the use cases that are, that are gonna emerge for this solution? >>Yeah, I mean we've, you know, we've had a solution for a while and you know, this is now new on Azure is gonna extend the reach of the solution and get us closer to the type of use cases that are unique to Azure in terms of those solutions for analytics and so forth. But the kind of key use cases for us, the first one you know, talks about it is a migration. You know, we see customers on the cloud journey, they're looking to go and move applications wholesale from on premises to public cloud. You know, we make this very easy because in the end they take the same culture that are around the application and make them, we make them available Now in the Azure region, you can do this for any applications. There's no change to the application, no networking change. The same IP will work the same whether you're running on premises or in Azure. >>The app stays exactly the same, manage the same way, protected the same way. So that's a big one. And you know, the type of drivers point to politically or maybe I wanna go do something different or I wanna go and shut down education on premises, I need to do that with a given timeline. I can now move first and then take care of optimizing the application to take advantage of all that Azure has to offer. So migration and doing that in a simple fashion, in a very fast manner is, is a key use case. Another one, and this is classic for leveraging public cloud force, which are doing on premises IT disaster recovery and something that we refer to as elastic disaster recovery, being able to go and actually configure a secondary site to protect your on premises workloads, but I that site sitting in Azure as a small site, just enough to hold the data that you're replicating and then use the fact that you cannot get access to resources on demand in Azure to scale out the environment, feed over workloads, run them with performance, potentially feed them back to on premises and then shrink back the environment in Azure to again, optimize cost and take advantage of elasticity that you get from public cloud models. >>Then the last one, building on top of that is just the fact that you cannot get boosting use cases and maybe running a large environment, typically desktop, you know, VDI environments that we see running on premises and I have, you know, a seasonal requirement to go and actually enable more workers to go get access the same solution. You could do this by sizing for the large burst capacity on premises wasting resources during the rest of the year. What we see customers do is optimize what they're running on premises and get access to resources on demand in Azure and basically move the workload and now basically get combined desktops running on premises desktops running on NC two on Azure, same desktop images, same management, same services, and do that as a burst use case during, say you're a retailer that has to go and take care of your holiday season. You know, great use case that we see over and over again for our customers, right? And pretty much complimenting the notion of, look, I wanna go to desktop as a service, but right now I don't want to refactor the entire application stack. I just wanna be able to get access to resources on demand in the right place at the right time. >>Makes sense. I mean this is really all about supporting customers', digital transformations. We all talk about how that was accelerated during the pandemic and, but the cloud is a fundamental component of the digital transformation generic. You, you guys have obviously made a commitment between Microsoft and and Nutanix to simplify hybrid cloud and that journey to the cloud. How should customers, you know, measure that? What does success look like? What's the ultimate vision here? >>Well, the ultimate vision is really twofold. I think the one is to, you know, first is really to ease a customer's journey to the cloud to allow them to take advantage of all the benefits to the cloud, but to do so without having to rewrite their applications or retrain their, their administrators and or or to obviate their investment that they already have and platforms like, like Nutanix. And so the, the work that companies have done together here, you know, first and foremost is really to allow folks to come to the cloud in the way that they want to come to the cloud and take really the best of both worlds, right? Leverage, leverage their investment in the capabilities of the Nutanix platform, but do so in conjunction with the advantages and and capabilities of, of Azure. You know, Second is really to extend some of the cloud capabilities down onto the on-premise infrastructure. And so with investments that we've done together with Azure arc for example, we're really extending the Azure control plane down onto on premise Nutanix clusters and bringing the capabilities that that provides to the, the Nutanix customer as well as various Azure services like our data services and Azure SQL server. So it's really kind of coming at the problem from, from two directions. One is from kind of traditional on-premise up into the cloud and then the second is kind of from the cloud leveraging the investment customers have in in on-premise hci. >>Got it. Thank you. Okay, last question. Maybe each of you can just give us one key takeaway for our audience today. Maybe we start with with with with Thomas and then Indu and then Eric you can bring us home. >>Sure. So the key takeaway is, you know, Nutanix Cloud clusters on Azure is now ga you know, this is something that we've had tremendous demand from our customers, both from the Microsoft side and the Nutanix side going, going back years literally, right? People have been wanting to go and see this, this is now live GA open for business and you know, we're ready to go and engage and ready to scale, right? This is our first step in a long journey in a very key partnership for us at Nutanix. >>Great Indu >>In our Dave. In a prior life about seven or eight, eight years ago, I was a part of a team that took a popular cat's preparation software and moved it to the public cloud. And that was a journey that took us four years and probably several hundred million. And if we had had NC two then it would've saved us half the money, but more importantly would've gotten there in one third the time. And that's really the value of this. >>Okay. Eric, bring us home please. >>Yeah, I'll just point out like this is not something that's just both on or something. We, we, we started yesterday. This is something the teams, both companies have been working on together for, for years, really. And it's, it's a way of, of deeply integrating Nutanix into the Azure Cloud and with the ultimate goal of, of again, providing cloud capabilities to the Nutanix customer in a way that they can, you know, take advantage of the cloud and then compliment those applications over time with additional Azure services like storage, for example. So it really is a great on-ramp to the cloud for, for customers who have significant investments in, in Nutanix clusters on premise, >>Love the co-engineering and the ability to take advantage of those cloud native tools and capabilities, real customer value. Thanks gentlemen. Really appreciate your time. >>Thank >>You. Thank you. >>Okay. Keep it right there. You're watching Accelerate Hybrid Cloud, that journey with Nutanix and Microsoft technology on the cube. You're a leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage.

(gentle music) >> Okay, we're back with the hybrid cloud power panel. I'm Dave Vellante, and with me Eric Lockard who is the Corporate Vice President of Microsoft Azure Specialized. Thomas Cornely is the Senior Vice President of Products at Nutanix and Indu Keri, who's the Senior Vice President of Engineering, NCI and NC2 at Nutanix. Gentlemen, welcome to The Cube. Thanks for coming on. >> It's good to be here. >> Thanks for having us. >> Eric, let's, let's start with you. We hear so much about cloud first. What's driving the need for hybrid cloud for organizations today? I mean, I want to just put everything in the public cloud. >> Yeah, well, I mean the public cloud has a bunch of inherent advantages, right? I mean it's, it has effectively infinite capacity the ability to, you know, innovate without a lot of upfront costs, you know, regions all over the world. So there is a trend towards public cloud, but you know not everything can go to the cloud, especially right away. There's lots of reasons. Customers want to have assets on premise you know, data gravity, sovereignty and so on. And so really hybrid is the way to achieve the best of both worlds, really to kind of leverage the assets and investments that customers have on premise but also take advantage of the cloud for bursting, originality or expansion especially coming out of the pandemic. We saw a lot of this from work from home and and video conferencing and so on driving a lot of cloud adoption. So hybrid is really the way that we see customers achieving the best of both worlds. >> Yeah, makes sense. I want to, Thomas, if you could talk a little bit I don't want to inundate people with the acronyms, but the Nutanix Cloud clusters on Azure, what is that? What problems does it solve? Give us some color there, please. >> Yeah, so, you know, cloud clusters on Azure which we actually call NC2 to make it simple. And so NC2 on Azure is really our solutions for hybrid cloud, right? And you think about hybrid cloud highly desirable, customers want it. They, they know this is the right way to do it for them given that they want to have workloads on premises at the edge, any public clouds, but it's complicated. It's hard to do, right? And the first thing that you deal with is just silos, right? You have different infrastructure that you have to go and deal with. You have different teams, different technologies, different areas of expertise. And dealing with different portals, networking get complicated, security gets complicated. And so you heard me say this already, you know hybrid can be complex. And so what we've done we then NC2 Azure is we make that simple, right? We allow teams to go and basically have a solution that allows you to go and take any application running on premises and move it as-is to any Azure region where NC2 is available. Once it's running there you keep the same operating model, right? And that's, so that actually super valuable to actually go and do this in a simple fashion. Do it faster, and basically do hybrid in a more (indistinct) fashion know for all your applications. And that's what's really special about NC2 today. >> So Thomas, just a quick follow up on that. So you're, you're, if I understand you correctly it's an identical experience. Did I get that right? >> This is the key for us, right? When you think you're sitting on premises you are used to way of doing things of how you run your applications, how you operate, how you protect them. And what we do here is we extend the Nutanix operating model to workloads running in Azure using the same core stack that you're running on premises, right? So once you have a cluster, deploy in NC2 Azure, it's going to look like the same cluster that you might be running at the edge or in your own data center, using the same tools, using the same admin constructs to go protect the workloads make them highly available do disaster recovery or secure them. All of that becomes the same. But now you are in Azure, and this is what we've spent a lot of time working with Eric and his teams on is you actually have access now to all of those suites of Azure services (indistinct) from those workloads. So now you get the best of both world, you know and we bridge them together and you to get seamless access of those services between what you get from Nutanix, what you get from Azure. >> Yeah. And as you alluded to this is traditionally been non-trivial and people have been looking forward to this for quite some time. So Indu, I want to understand from an engineering perspective, your team had to work with the Microsoft team, and I'm sure there was this is not just a press release, this is, or a PowerPoint you had to do some some engineering work. So what specific engineering work did you guys do and what's unique about this relative to other solutions in the marketplace? >> So let me start with what's unique about this. And I think Thomas and Eric both did a really good job of describing that. The best way to think about what we are delivering jointly with Microsoft is that it speeds up the journey to the public cloud. You know, one way to think about this is moving to the public cloud is sort of like remodeling your house. And when you start remodeling your house, you know, you find that you start with something and before you know it, you're trying to remodel the entire house. And that's a little bit like what journey to the public cloud sort of starts to look like when you start to refactor applications. Because it wasn't, most of the applications out there today weren't designed for the public cloud to begin with. NC2 allows you to flip that on its head and say that take your application as-is and then lift and shift it to the public cloud at which point you start the refactor journey. And one of the things that you have done really well with the NC2 on Azure is that NC2 is not something that sits by Azure side. It's fully integrated into the Azure fabric especially the software-defined networking, SDN piece. What that means is that, you know you don't have to worry about connecting your NC2 cluster to Azure to some sort of a network pipe. You have direct access to the Azure services from the same application that's now running on an NC2 cluster. And that makes your refactor journey so much easier. Your management claim looks the same, your high performance notes let the NVMe notes they look the same. And really, I mean, other than the fact that you're doing something in the public cloud all the Nutanix goodness that you're used to continue to receive that. There is a lot of secret sauce that we have had to develop as part of this journey. But if we had to pick one that really stands out it is how do we take the complexity, the network complexity offer public cloud, in this case Azure and make it as familiar to Nutanix's customers as the VPC, the virtual private cloud (indistinct) that allows them to really think of their on-prem networking and the public cloud networking in very similar terms. There's a lot more that's done on behind the scenes. And by the way, I'll tell you a funny sort of anecdote. My dad used to say when I grew up that, you know if you really want to grow up, you have to do two things. You have to like build a house and you have to marry your kid off to someone. And I would say our dad a third, do a cloud development with the public cloud provider of the partner. This has been just an absolute amazing journey with Eric and the Microsoft team and we're very grateful for their support. >> I need NC2 for my house. I live in a house that was built and it's 1687 and we connect all the new and it is a bolt on, but the secret sauce, I mean there's, there's a lot there but is it a (indistinct) layer. You didn't just wrap it in a container and shove it into the public cloud. You've done more than that, I'm inferring. >> You know, the, it's actually an infrastructure layer offering on top of (indistinct). You can obviously run various types of platform services. So for example, down the road if you have a containerized application you'll actually be able to take it from on prem and run it on NC2. But the NC2 offer itself, the NC2 offering itself is an infrastructure level offering. And the trick is that the storage that you're used to the high performance storage that you know define Nutanix to begin with the hypervisor that you're used to the network constructs that you're used to light micro segmentation for security purposes, all of them are available to you on NC2 in Azure the same way that we're used to do on-prem. And furthermore, managing all of that through Prism, which is our management interface and management console also remains the same. That makes your security model easier that makes your management challenge easier that makes it much easier for an application person or the IT office to be able to report back to the board that they have started to execute on the cloud mandate and they've done that much faster than they would be able to otherwise. >> Great. Thank you for helping us understand the plumbing. So now Thomas, maybe we can get to like the customers. What, what are you seeing, what are the use cases that are that are going to emerge for this solution? >> Yeah, I mean we've, you know we've had a solution for a while and you know this is now new on Azure is going to extend the reach of the solution and get us closer to the type of use cases that are unique to Azure in terms of those solutions for analytics and so forth. But the kind of key use cases for us the first one you know, talks about it is a migration. You know, we see customers on that cloud journey. They're looking to go and move applications wholesale from on premises to public cloud. You know, we make this very easy because in the end they take the same culture that were around the application and we make them available now in the Azure region. You can do this for any applications. There's no change to the application, no networking change the same IP constraint will work the same whether you're running on premises or in Azure. The app stays exactly the same manage the same way, protected the same way. So that's a big one. And you know, the type of drivers for (indistinct) maybe I want to go do something different or I want to go and shut down the location on premises I need to do that with a given timeline. I can now move first and then take care of optimizing the application to take advantage of all that Azure has to offer. So migration and doing that in a simple fashion in a very fast manner is, is a key use case. Another one, and this is classic for leveraging public cloud force, which we're doing on premises IT disaster recovery and something that we refer to as Elastic disaster recovery, being able to go and actually configure a secondary site to protect your on premises workloads. But I think that site sitting in Azure as a small site just enough to hold the data that you're replicating and then use the fact that you cannot get access to resources on demand in Azure to scale out the environment feed over workloads, run them with performance potentially fill them back to on premises, and then shrink back the environment in Azure to again optimize cost and take advantage of the elasticity that you get from public cloud models. Then the last one, building on top of that is just the fact that you cannot get bursting use cases and maybe running a large environment, typically desktop, you know, VDI environments that we see running on premises and I have, you know, a seasonal requirement to go and actually enable more workers to go get access the same solution. You could do this by sizing for the large burst capacity on premises wasting resources during the rest of the year. What we see customers do is optimize what they're running on premises and get access to resources on demand in Azure and basically move the workloads and now basically get combined desktops running on premises desktops running on NC2 on Azure same desktop images, same management, same services and do that as a burst use case during say you're a retailer that has to go and take care of your holiday season. You know, great use case that we see over and over again for our customers, right? And pretty much complimenting the notion of, look I want to go to desktop as a service, but right now I don't want to refactor the entire application stack. I just want to be able to get access to resources on demand in the right place at the right time. >> Makes sense. I mean this is really all about supporting customer's, digital transformations. We all talk about how that was accelerated during the pandemic and but the cloud is a fundamental component of the digital transformations generic. You, you guys have obviously made a commitment between Microsoft and Nutanix to simplify hybrid cloud and that journey to the cloud. How should customers, you know, measure that? What does success look like? What's the ultimate vision here? >> Well, the ultimate vision is really twofold, I think. The one is to, you know first is really to ease a customer's journey to the cloud to allow them to take advantage of all the benefits to the cloud, but to do so without having to rewrite their applications or retrain their administrators and or to obviate their investment that they already have and platforms like Nutanix. And so the work that companies have done together here, you know, first and foremost is really to allow folks to come to the cloud in the way that they want to come to the cloud and take really the best of both worlds, right? Leverage their investment in the capabilities of the Nutanix platform, but do so in conjunction with the advantages and capabilities of Azure. You know, second is really to extend some of the cloud capabilities down onto the on-premise infrastructure. And so with investments that we've done together with Azure arc for example, we're really extending the Azure control plane down onto on-premise Nutanix clusters and bringing the capabilities that provides to the Nutanix customer as well as various Azure services like our data services and Azure SQL server. So it's really kind of coming at the problem from two directions. One is from kind of traditional on-premise up into the cloud, and then the second is kind of from the cloud leveraging the investment customers have in on-premise HCI. >> Got it. Thank you. Okay, last question. Maybe each of you could just give us one key takeaway for our audience today. Maybe we start with Thomas and then Indu and then Eric you can bring us home. >> Sure. So the key takeaway is, you know, cloud customers on Azure is now GA you know, this is something that we've had tremendous demand from our customers both from the Microsoft side and the Nutanix side going back years literally, right? People have been wanting to go and see this this is now live GA open for business and you know we're ready to go and engage and ready to scale, right? This is our first step in a long journey in a very key partnership for us at Nutanix. >> Great, Indu. >> In our day, in a prior life about seven or eight years ago, I was a part of a team that took a popular text preparation software and moved it to the public cloud. And that was a journey that took us four years and probably several hundred million dollars. And if we had NC2 then it would've saved us half the money, but more importantly would've gotten there in one third the time. And that's really the value of this. >> Okay. Eric, bring us home please. >> Yeah, I'll just point out that, this is not something that's just bought on or something we started yesterday. This is something the teams both companies have been working on together for years really. And it's a way of deeply integrating Nutanix into the Azure Cloud. And with the ultimate goal of again providing cloud capabilities to the Nutanix customer in a way that they can, you know take advantage of the cloud and then compliment those applications over time with additional Azure services like storage, for example. So it really is a great on-ramp to the cloud for customers who have significant investments in Nutanix clusters on premise. >> Love the co-engineering and the ability to take advantage of those cloud native tools and capabilities, real customer value. Thanks gentlemen. Really appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Keep it right there. You're watching accelerate hybrid cloud, that journey with Nutanix and Microsoft technology on The Cube, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. (gentle music)

>>The cube presents HPE discover 2022 brought to you by HPE. >>Welcome back to the Cube's coverage. We're wrapping up day two, John furrier and Dave ante. We got some friends and colleagues, longtime friends, Crawford Del Pret is the president of IDC. Matt Eastwood is the senior vice president of infrastructure and cloud guys. Thanks for coming on spending time. Great to you guys. >>That's fun to do it. Awesome. >>Cravin I want to ask you, I, I think this correct me if I'm wrong, but this was your first physical directions as, as president. Is that true or did you do one in 2019? >>Uh, no, we did one in 20. We did, we did one in 20. I was president at the time and then, and then everything started, >>Well, how was directions this year? You must have been stoked to get back together. Yeah, >>It was great. I mean, it was actually pretty emotional, you know, it's, it's a community, right? I mean, we have a lot of customers that have been coming to that event for a long, long time and to stand up on the stage and look out and see people, you know, getting a little bit emotional and a lot of hugs and a lot of bringing people together. And this year in Boston, we were the first event really of any size that kind of came back. And when I kind of didn't see that coming in terms of how people, how ready people were to be together. Cause >>When did you did it April >>In Boston? Yeah, we did it March in March. Yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was a game day decision. I mean, we were, we had negotiated it, we were going back and forth and then I kind of made the call at the last minute, say, let's go and do it. And in Santa Clara, I felt like we were kind of opening up the crypt at the convention center. I mean, all the production people said, you know what? You guys were really the first event to be back. And attendance was really strong. You know, we, we, we got over a thousand. It was, it was really good. >>Good. It's always a fun when I was there. It was, it's a big deal. You guys prepare for it. Yeah. Some new faces up on the stage. Yeah. So, so Matt, um, you've been doing the circuit. I take it like, like all top analysts, super busy. Right. This is kind of end of the spring. I mean, I know it's summer, right. That's right. But, um, how do you look at, at discover relative some, some of the other events you've been at? >>So I think if you go back to what Crawford was just talking about our event in March, I mean, March was sort of the, the reopening and there was, I think people just felt so happy to be, to be back out there. You still get a little bit at, at these events. I mean, cuz for each, each company it's their first time back at it, but I think we're starting to get down what these events are gonna feel like going forward. Um, and it, I mean, there's good energy here. There's been a good attendance. I think the, the interest in getting back live and having face to face meetings is clearly strong. >>Yeah. I mean, this definitely shows that hybrids, the steady state, both events cloud. Yeah. Virtualization remotes. So what are you guys seeing with that hybrid mode? Just from a workforce, certainly people excited to get back together, but it's gonna continue. You're starting to see that digital piece. How is that impacting some of the, some of the customers you're tracking, who's winning and who's losing, coming out of the pandemic. What's the big picture look like? >>Yeah. I mean, if you, if you take a look at hybrid work, um, people are testing many, many, many different models. And I think as we move from a pandemic to an em, we're gonna have just waves and waves and waves of people needing that flexibility for a lot of different reasons, whether they have, uh, you know, preexisting conditions, whether they're just not comfortable, whether they have people who can't be vaccinated at home. So I think we're gonna be in this hybrid work for a long, long time. I do think though that we are gonna transition back into some kind of a normal, um, and I, and I think the big difference is that I think leaders back in the day, a long time ago, when people weren't coming into work, it was kind of like, oh, I know nothing's going on there. People aren't getting worked. And I think we're over that stage. Yeah. I think we're now into a stage where we know people can be productive. We know people can effectively work from home and now we're into the reason to be in the office. And the reason to be in the office is that collaboration, it's that mentoring it's that, you know, think about your 25 year old self. Do you wanna be staring at a windshield all day long and not kind of building those relationships? People want face to face, it's difficult. They want face >>To face and I would, and you guys had a great culture and it's a young culture. How are you handling it as an executive in terms of, is there a policy for hybrid or >>Yeah, so, so, so at IDC, what we did is we're in a pilot period and we've kind of said that the summertime is gonna be a pilot period and we've asked people, we're actually serving shocker, we're >>Serving, >>But we're, but we're, but, but we're actually asking people to work with their manager on what works for them. And then we'll come up with, you know, whether you are in, out of the office worker, which will be less than two days a hybrid worker, which will be three days or, uh, in, in the office, which is more than three days a week. And you know, we all know there's, there's, there's limitation, there's, there's, there's variability in that, but that's kind of what we're shooting for. And we'd like to be able to have that in place in the fall. >>Are you pretty much there? >>Yeah, I am. I, I am there three days a week. I I, Mondays and Fridays, unless, >>Because you got the CEO radius, right? Yeah. >><laugh>, <laugh> >>The same way I'm in the office, the smaller, smaller office. But so, uh, let's talk a little bit about the, the numbers we were chatting earlier, trying to squint through you guys are, you know, obviously the gold standard for what the market does, what happened in, you know, during the pandemic, what happened in 2021 and what do you expect to happen in, in 2022 in terms of it spending growth? >>Yeah. So this is, this is a crazy time, right? We've never seen this. You and I have a long history of, uh, of tracking this. So we saw in, in, in, in 2020, the market decelerated dramatically, um, the GDP went down to a negative like it always does in these cases, it was, you know, probably negative six in that, in that, in that kind of range for the first time, since I've been tracking it, which goes back over 30 years, tech didn't go negative tech went to about just under 3%. And then as we went to 2021, we saw, you know, everything kind of snap back, we saw tech go up to about 11% growth. And then of course we saw, you know, GDP come back to about a 4%, you know, ki kind of range growth. Now what's I think the story there is that companies and you saw this anecdotally everywhere companies leaned into tech, uh, company. >>You know, I think, you know, Matt, you have a great statistic that, you know, 80% of companies used COVID as their point to pivot into digital transformation, right. And to invest in a different way. And so what we saw now is that tech is now where I think companies need to focus. They need to invest in tech. They need to make people more productive with tech and it played out in the numbers now. So this year what's fascinating is we're looking at two Fastly different markets. We've got gasoline at $7 a gallon. We've got that affecting food prices. Uh, interesting fun fact recently it now costs over $1,000 to fill an 18 Wheeler. All right. Based on, I mean this just kind of can't continue. So you think about it, don't put the boat >>In the wall. Yeah. Yeah. >>Good, good, good, good luck. It's good. Yeah, exactly. <laugh> so a family has kind of this bag of money, right? And that bag of money goes up by maybe three, 4% every year, depending upon earnings. So that is sort of sloshing around. So if food and fuel and rent is taking up more gadgets and consumer tech are not, you know, you're gonna use that iPhone a little longer. You're gonna use that Android phone a little longer. You're gonna use that TV a little longer. So consumer tech is getting crushed, you know, really it's very, very, and you saw it immediately and ad spending, you've seen it in meta. You've seen it in Facebook. Consumer tech is doing very, very it's tough enterprise tech. We haven't been in the office for two and a half years. We haven't upgraded whether that be campus wifi, whether that be, uh, servers, whether that be, uh, commercial PCs, as much as we would have. So enterprise tech, we're seeing double digit order rates. We're seeing strong, strong demand. Um, we have combined that with a component shortage and you're seeing some enterprise companies with a quarter of backlog. I mean, that's, you know, really unheard at higher >>Prices, which >>Also, and therefore that drives that >>Drives. It shouldn't be that way. If there's a shortage of chips, it shouldn't be that way, >>But it is, but it is, but it is. And then you look at software and we saw this, you know, we've seen this in previous cycles, but we really saw it in the COVID downturn where, uh, in software, the stickiness of SaaS means that you just, you're not gonna take that stuff out. So the, the second half of last year we saw double digit rates in software surprise. We're seeing high single digit revenue growth in software now, so that we think is gonna sustain, which means that overall it demand. We expect to be between five and 6% this year. Okay, fine. We have a war going on. We have, you know, potentially, uh, a recession. We think if we do, it'll be with a lower case, R maybe you see a banded down to maybe 4% growth, but it's gonna grow this. >>Is it, is it both the structural change of the disruption of COVID plus the digital transformation yeah. Together? Or is it, >>I, I think you make a great point. Um, I, I, I think that we are entering a new era for tech. I think that, you know, Andrew's famous wall street journal oped 10 years ago, software is even world was absolutely correct. And now we're finding that software is, is eing into every nook and cranny people have to invest. They, they know disruptors are coming around every single corner. And if I'm not leaning into digital transformation, I'm dead. So >>The number of players in tech is, is growing, >>Cuz there's well, the number of players in tech number >>Industry's coming >>In. Yeah. The industry's coming in. So I think the interesting dynamic you're gonna see there is now we have high interest rates. Yeah. Which means that the price of funding these companies and buying them and putting data on is gonna get higher and higher, which means that I think you could, you could see another wave of consolidation. Mm-hmm <affirmative> because tech large install based tech companies are saying, oh, you know what? I like that now >>4 0 9 S are being reset too. That's another point. >>Yeah. I mean, so if you think about this, this transformation, right. So it's all about apps, absent data and differentiating and absent data. What the, the big winner the last couple years was cloud. And I would just say that if this is the first potential recession that we're talking about, where the cloud service providers. So I think a cloud as an operating model, not necessarily a destination, but for these cloud service providers, they've actually never experienced a slowdown. So how, and, and if you think about the numbers, 30% of, of the typical it budget is now quote, unquote cloud and 30% of all expenditures are it related. So there's a lot of exposure there. And I think you're gonna see a lot of, a lot of focus on how we can rationalize some of those investments. >>Well, that's a great point. I want to just double click on that. So yeah, the cloud did well during the pandemic. We saw that with SAS, have you guys tracked like the Tams of what got pulled forward? So the bit, a big discussion about something that pulled forward because of the pandemic, um, like zoom, for instance, obviously everyone's using zoom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was there fake Tams? There was one, uh, couple analysts who were pointing out that some companies were hot during the pandemic will go away that that Tam doesn't really exist, but there's some that got pulled forward early. That's where the growth is. So is there a, is there a line between the, I call fake Tam or pulled forward TA that was only for the pandemic situationally, um, devices might be like virtual event, virtual event. Software was one, I know Hoppin got laid a lot of layoffs. And so that was kind of gone coming, coming and going. And you got SAS which got pulled forward. Yep. And it's not going away, but it's >>Sustaining. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, but, but it's sustaining, um, you know, I definitely think there was a, there was a lot of spending that absolutely got pulled forward. And I think it's really about CEO's ability to control expectations and to kind of message what it, what it looks like. Um, you know, I think I look, I, I, I think virtual event platforms probably have a role. I think you can, you can definitely, you know, raise your margins in the event, business, significantly using those platforms. There's a role for them. But if you were out there thinking that this thing was gonna continue, then you know, that that was unrealistic, you know, Dave, to, to your point on devices, I'm not necessarily, you know. Sure. I think, I think we definitely got ahead of our expectations and things like consumer PCs, those things will go back to historical growth >>Rates. Yeah. I mean, you got the install base is pretty young right now, but I think the one way to look at it too, is there was some technical debt brought in because people didn't necessarily expect that we'd be moving to a permanent hybrid state two years ago. So now we have to actually invest on both. We have to make, create a little bit more permanency around the hybrid world. And then also like Crawford's talking about the permanency of, of having an office and having people work in, in multiple modes. Yeah. It actually requires investment in both the office. And >>Also, so you're saying operationally, you gotta run the company and do the digital transformation to level up the hybrid. >>Yeah. Yeah. Just the way people work. Right. So, so, you know, you basically have to, I mean, even for like us internally, Crawford was saying, we're experimenting with what works for us. My team before the pandemic was like one third virtual. Now it's two third virtual, which means that all of our internal meetings are gonna be on, on teams or zoom. Right. Yeah. They're not gonna necessarily be, Hey, just coming to the office today, cuz two thirds of people aren't in the Boston area. >>Right. Matt, you said if you see cloud as an operating model, not necessarily a place. I remember when you were out, I was in the, on the, on the, on the zoom when, when first met Adam Celski yeah. Um, he said, you were asking him about, you know, the, the on-prem guys and he's like, nah, it's not cloud. And he kind of was very dismissive of it. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna get your take on, you know, what we're seeing with as Azure service GreenLake, apex, Cisco's got their version. IBM. Fewer is doing it. Is that cloud. >>I think if it's, I, I don't think all of it is by default. I think it is. If I actually think what HPE is doing is cloud, because it's really about how you present the services and how you allow customers to engage with the platform. So they're actually creating a cloud model. I think a lot of people get lost in the transition from, you know, CapEx to OPEX and the financing element of this. But the reality is what HPE is doing and they're sort of setting the standard. I think for the industry here is actually setting up what I would consider a cloud model. >>Well, in the early days of, of GreenLake, for sure it was more of a financial, you >>Know, it was kind of bespoke, right. But now you've got 70 services. And so you can, you can build that out. But >>You know, we were talking to Keith Townsend right after the keynote and we were sort of UN unpacking it a little bit. And I, I asked the question, you know, if you, if you had to pin this in terms of AWS's maturity, where are we? And the consensus was 2014 console filling, is that fair or unfair? >>Oh, that's a good question. I mean, um, I think it's, well, clouds come a long way, right? So it'd be, I, I, I think 20, fourteen's probably a little bit too far back because >>You have more modern tools I Kubernetes is. Yeah. >>And, but you also have, I would say the market still getting to a point of, of, of readiness and in terms of buying this way. So if you think about the HP's kind of strategy around edge, the core platform as a, as a service, you know, we're all big believers in edge and the apps follow the data and the data's being created in new locations and you gotta put the infrastructure there. And for an end user, there's a lot of risk there because they don't know how to actually plan for capacity at the edge. So they're gonna look to offload that, but this is a long term play to actually, uh, build out and deploy at the edge. It's not gonna happen tomorrow. It's a five, 10 year play. >>Yeah. I mean, I like the operating model. I'd agree with you, Matt, that if it's, if it's cloud operations, DevSecOps and all that, all that jazz it's cloud it's cloud operating and, and, and public cloud is a public cloud hyperscaler on premise. And the storage folks were presented. That's a single pane of glass. That's old school concepts, but cloud based. Yep. Shipping hardwares, auto figures. Yeah. That's the kind of consumption they're going for now. I like it. Then I, then they got the partner led thing is the partner piece. How do you guys see that? Because if I'm a partner, there's two things, wait a minute, am I at bottleneck to the direct self-service? Or is that an enabler to get more cash, to make more money? If I'm a partner. Cause you see what Essentia's doing with what they do with Amazon and Deloitte and et C. Yeah. You know, it's interesting, right? Like they've a channel partner, I'm making more cash. >>Yeah. I mean, well, and those channel partners are all in transition too. They're trying to yeah. Right. Figure out. Right, right. Are they, you know, what are their managed services gonna look like? You know, what kind of applications are they gonna stand up? They're they're not gonna just be >>Reselling, bought a big house in a boat. The box is not selling. I wanna ask you guys about growth because you know, the big three cloud, big four growing pick a number, I dunno, 30, 35% revenue big. And like you said, it's 30% of the business now. I think Dell's growing double digits. I don't know how much of that is sustainable. A lot of that is PCs, but still strong growth. Yep. I think Cisco has promised 9% >>In, in that. Right, right. >>About that. Something like that. I think IBM Arvin is at 6%. Yep. And I think HPE has said, Hey, we're gonna do three to 4%. Right. Which is so really sort of lagging and which I think a lot of people in wall street is like, okay, well that's not necessarily so compelling. Right. What does HPE have to do to double that growth? Or even triple that growth. >>Yeah. So they're gonna need, so, so obviously you're right. I mean, being able to show growth is Tanem out to this company getting, you know, more attention, more heat from, from investors. I think that they're rightly pointing to the triple digit growth that they've seen on green lake. I think if you look at the trailing, you know, 12 month bookings, you got over, you know, 7 billion, which means that in a year, you're gonna have a significant portion of the company is as a service. And you're gonna see that revenue that's rat being, you know, recognized over a series of months. So I think that this is sort of the classic SAS trough that we've seen applied to an infrastructure company where you're basically have to kind of be in the desert for a long time. But if they can, I think the most important number for HPE right now is that GreenLake booking snow. >>And if you look at that number and you see that number, you know, rapidly come down, which it hasn't, I mean off a very large number, you're still in triple digits. They will ultimately start to show revenue growth, um, in the business. And I think the one thing people are missing about HPE is there aren't, there are a lot of companies that want to build a platform, but they're small and nobody cares. And nobody let's say they throw a party and nobody comes. HP has such a significant installed base that if they do build a platform, they can attract partners to that platform. What I mean by that is partners that deliver services on GreenLake that they're not delivering. They have the girth to really start to change an industry and change the way stuff is being built. And that's the be they're making. And frankly, they are showing progress in that direction. >>So I buy that. But the one thing that concerns me is they kind of hide the ball on services. Right. And I, and I worry about that is like, is this a services kind of just, you know, same wine, new bottle or, >>Or, yeah. So, so I, I, I would argue that it's not about hiding the ball. It's about eliminating confusion of the marketplace. This is the company that bought EDS only to spin it off <laugh>. Okay. And so you don't wanna have a situation where you're getting back into services. >>Yeah. They're the only one >>They're product, not the only ones who does, I mean, look at the way IBM used to count and still >>I get it. I get it. But I think it's, it's really about clarity of mission. Well, I point next they are in the Ts business, absolutely. Point of it. It's important prop >>Drive for them at the top. Right. The global 50 say there's still a lot of uniqueness in what they want to buy. So there's definitely a lot of bespoke kind of delivery. That's still happening there. The real promise here is when you get into the global 2000 and yeah. And can start them to getting them to consume very standardized offers. And then the margins are, are healthy >>And they got they're what? Below 30, 33, 30 3%. I think 34% last quarter gross margin. Yeah. That that's solid. Just compare that with Dell is, I don't know. They're happy with 20, 21% of correct. You get that, which is, you know, I I'll come back. Go ahead. I want, I wanna ask >>Guys. No, I wanna, I wanna just, he said one thing I like, which was, I think he nailed it. They have such, um, big install base. They have a great channel. They know how to use it. Right. That's a real asset. Yeah. And Microsoft, I remember when their stock was trading at 26 when Baltimore was CEO. Yep. What they did with no, they had office and windows, so a little bit different. Yep. But similar strategy, leverage our install base, bring something up to them. That's what you're kind of connecting the >>Absolutely. You have this velocity, uh, machine with a significant girth that you can now move to a new model. They move that to a new model. To Matt's point. They lead the industry, they change the way large swath the customers buy and you will see it in steady revenue growth over time. Okay. So I just in that, well, >>So your point is the focus and there the right it's the right focus. And I would agree what's >>What's the other move. What's their other move, >>The problem. Triple digit booking growth off a number that gets bigger >>Inspired. Okay. >>Whats what's the scoreboard. Okay. Now they're go at the growth. That's the scoreboard. What are the signals? Are you looking at on the scoreboard Crawford and Matt in terms of success? What are the benchmarks? Is it ecosystem growth, number of services, triple growth. Yeah. What's the, what are some of the metrics that you guys are gonna be watching and we should be watching? >>Yeah. I mean, I dunno if >>You wanna jump in, I mean, I think ecosystem's really critical. Yeah. You want to, you want to have well and, and you need to sell both ways like HPE needs to be selling their technology on other cloud providers and vice versa. You need to have the VMs of the world on, you know, offering services on your platform and, and kind of capturing some, some motion off that. I think that's pretty critical. The channel definitely. I mean, you have to help and what you're gonna see happen there is there will be channel partners that succeed in transforming and succeeding and there'll be a lot that go away and that some, some of that's, uh, generational there'll be people that just kind of age outta the system and, and just go home. >>Yeah. Yeah. So I would argue it's, it's, it's, it's gonna be, uh, bookings growth rate. It's gonna be retention rate of the, of, of, of the customers, uh, that they have. And then it's gonna be that, that, um, you know, ultimately you're gonna see revenue, um, growth, and which is that revenue growth is gonna have to be correlated to the booking's growth for green lake cross. >>What's the Achilles heel on, on HPE. If you had to do the SWAT, what's the, what's the w for HPE that they really need to pay >>Attention to. I mean, they, they need to continue their relentless focus on cost, particularly in the, in the core compute, you know, segment they need to be, they need to be able to be as cost effective as possible while the higher profit dollars associated with GreenLake and other services come in and then increase the overall operating margin and gross margin >>Picture for the, I mean, I think the biggest thing is they just have, they have to continue the motion that they've been on. Right. And they've been consistent about that. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> what you see where others have, have kind of slipped up is when you go to, to customers and you present the, the OPEX as a service and the traditional CapEx side by side, and the customers put in this position of trying to detangle what's in that OPEX service, you don't wanna do that obviously. And, and HP has not done that, but we've seen others kind of slip up. And, but >>A lot of companies still wanna buy CapEx. Right. Absolutely liquid. And, and I think, >>But you shouldn't do a, you shouldn't do that bake off by putting those two offers out. You should basically ascertain what they want to do. >>What's kind of what Dell does. Right. Hey, how, what do you want? We got this, we got >>This on one hand, we got this, the, we got that, right. Uh, the two hand sales rep, no, this CapEx. Thing's interesting. And if you're Amazon and Azure and, and GCP, what are they thinking right now? Cause remember what, four years ago outpost was launched, which essentially hardware. Yeah. This is cloud operating model. Yep. Yeah. They're essentially bringing outpost. This is what they got basically is Amazon and Azure, like, is this ABL on the radar for them? How would you, what, what are they thinking in your mind if we're on, if we're in their office, in their brain trust, are they laughing? Are they like saying, oh, they're scared. Is this real threat >>Opportunity? I, I, I mean, I wouldn't say they're laughing at all. I, I would say they're probably discounting a little bit and saying, okay, fine. You know, that's a strategy that a traditional hardware company is moving to. But I think if you look underneath the covers, you know, two years ago it was, you know, pretty basic stuff they were offering. But now when you start getting into some, you know, HPC is a service, you start getting into data fabric, you start getting into some of the more, um, sophisticated services that they're offering. And, and I think what's interesting about HP. What my, my take is that they're not gonna go after the 250 services the Amazon's offering, they're gonna basically have a portfolio of services that really focus on the core use cases of their infrastructure set. And, and I think one of the danger things, one, one of the, one of the red flags would be, if they start going way up the stack and wanting to offer the entire application stack, that would be like a big flashing warning sign, cuz it's not their sweet spot. It's not, not what they have. >>So machine learning, machine learning and quantum, okay. One you can argue might be up the stack machine learning quantum should be in their wheelhouse. >>I would argue machine learning is not up the stack because what they would focus on is inference. They'd focus on learning. If they came out and said, machine learning all the way up to the, you know, what a, what, what a drug discovery company needs to do. >>So they're bringing it down. >>Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, I think they're focusing on that middle layer, right? That, that, that data layer. And I think that helping companies manage their data make more sense outta their data structure, their data that's core to what they wanna do. >>I, I feel as though what they're doing now is table stakes. Honestly, I do. I do feel like, okay, Hey finally, you know, I say the same thing about apex, you >>Know, we finally got, >>It's like, okay guys, the >>Party. Great. Welcome to the, >>But the one thing I would just say about, about AWS and the other big clouds is whether they might be a little dismissive of what's truly gonna happen at the edge. I think the traditional OEMs that are transforming are really betting on that edge, being a huge play and a huge differentiator for them where the public cloud obviously have their own bets there. But I think they were pretty dismissive initially about how big that went. >>I don't, and I don't think anybody's really figured out the edge yet. >>Well, that's an, it's a battleground. That's what he's saying. I think you're >>Saying, but on the ecosystem, I wanna say up the stack, I think it's the ecosystem. That's gotta fill that out. You gotta see more governance tools and catalogs and AI tools and, and >>It immediately goes more, it goes more vertical when you go edge, you're gonna have different conversations and >>They're >>Lacking. Yeah. And they, but they're in there though. They're in the verticals. HP's in the, yeah, >>For sure. But they gotta build out an ego. Like you walk around here, the data, the number of data companies here. I mean, Starburst is here. I'm actually impressed that Starburst is here. Cause I think they're a forward thinking company. I wanna see that times a hundred. Right. I mean, that's >>You see HP's in all the verticals. That's I think the point here, >>So they should be able to attract that ecosystem and build that, that flywheel that's the, that's the hallmark of a cloud that marketplace. >>Yeah, it is. But I think there's a, again, I go back to, they really gotta stay focused on that infrastructure and data management. Yeah. >>But they'll be focused on that, but, but their ecosystem, >>Their ecosystem will then take it up from there. And I think that's the next stage >>And that ecosystem's gotta include OT players and communications technologies players as well. Right. Because that stuff gets kind of sucked up in that, in that edge play. Do >>You feel like HPE has a, has a leg up on that or like a little, a little bit of a lead or is it pretty much, you know, even raced right now? >>I think they've, I think the big infrastructure companies have all had OEM businesses and they've all played there. It's it's, it's also helping those OT players actually convert their own needs into more of a software play and, and not so much of >>Physical. You've been, you've been following and you guys both have been following HP and HPE for years. They've been on the edge for a long time. I've been focused on this edge. Yeah. Now they might not have the product traction that's right. Or they might not develop as fast, but industrial OT and IOT they've been talking about it, focused on it. I think Amazon was mostly like, okay, we gotta get to the edge and like the enterprise. And, and I think HP's got a leg up in my opinion on that. Well, I question is can they execute? >>Yeah. I mean, PTC was here years ago on stage talking >>About, but I mean, you think about, if you think about the edge, right. I mean, I would argue one of the best acquisitions this company ever did was Aruba. Right. I mean, it basically changed the whole conversation of the edge changed the whole conversation. >>If >>Became GreenLake, it was GreenLake. >>Well, it became a big department. They gave a big, but, but, but I mean, you know, I mean they, they, they went after going selling edge line servers and frankly it's very difficult to gain traction there. Yeah. Aruba, huge area. And I think the March announcement was when they brought Aruba management into. Yeah. Yeah. >>Totally. >>Last question. Love >>That. >>What are you guys saying about the, the Broadcom VMware acquisition? What's the, what are the implications for the ecosystem for companies like HPE and just generally for the it business? >>Yeah. So >>You start. Yeah, sure. I'll start, I'll start there. So look, you know, we've, you know, spent some time, uh, going through it spent some time, you know, speaking, uh, to the, to the, to the folks involved and, and, and I gotta tell you, I think this is a really interesting moment for Broadcom. This is Broadcom's opportunity to basically build a different kind of a conversation with developers to, uh, try to invest in. I mean, just for perspective, right? These numbers may not be exact. And I know a dollar is not a dollar, but in 2001, anybody, remember what HP paid for? Compact >>8,000,000,020, >>So 25 billion, 25 billion. Wow. VMware just got sold for 61 billion. Wow. Okay. Unbill dollars. Okay. That gives you a perspective. No, again, I know a dollar is not a dollar 2000. >>It's still big numbers, >>2022. So having said that, if you just did it to, to, to basically build your DCF model and say, okay, over this amount of time, I'll pay you this. And I'll take the money out of this period of time, which is what people have criticized them for. I think that's a little shortsighted. I, yeah, I think this is Broadcom's opportunity to invest in that product and really try to figure out how to get a seat at the table in software and pivot their company to enterprise software in a different way. They have to prove that they're willing to do that. And then frankly, that they can develop the skills to do that over time. But I do believe this is a, a different, this is a pivot point. This is not >>CA this is not CA >>It's not CA >>In my, in my mind, it can't be CA they would, they would destroy too much. Now you and I, Dave had some, had some conversations on Twitter. I, I don't think it's the step up to them sort of thinking differently about semiconductor, dying, doing some custom semi I, I don't think that's. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah. I think I, I think this is really about, I got two aspiration for them pivoting the company. They could >>Justify the >>Price to the, getting a seat at the adults table in software is, >>Well, if, if Broadcom has been squeezing their supplies, we all hear the scutle butt. Yeah. If they're squeezing, they can use VMware to justify the prices. Yeah. Maybe use that hostage. And that installed base. That's kind of Mike conspiracy. >>I think they've told us what they're gonna do. >><laugh> I do. >>Maybe it's not like C what's your conspiracy theory like Symantec, but what >>Do you think? Well, I mean, there's still, I mean, so VMware there's really nobody that can do all the things that VMware does say. So really impossible for an enterprise to just rip 'em out. But obviously you can, you can sour people's taste and you can very much influence the direction they head in with the collection of, of providers. One thing, interesting thing here is, was the 37% of VMware's revenues sold through Dell. So there's, there's lots of dependencies. It's not, it's not as simple as I think John, you you're right. You can't just pull the CA playbook out and rerun it here. This is a lot more complex. Yeah. It's a lot more volume of, of, of distribution, but a fair amount of VMware's install >>Base Dell's influence is still there basically >>Is in the mid-market. It's not, it's not something that they're gonna touch directly. >>You think about what VMware did. I mean, they kept adding new businesses, buying new businesses. I mean, is security business gonna stay >>Networking security, I think are interesting. >>Same >>Customers >>Over and over. Haven't done anything. VMware has the same customers. What new >>Customers. So imagine simplifying VMware. Right, right. Becomes a different equation. It's really interesting. And to your point, yeah. I mean, I think Broadcom is, I mean, Tom Crouse knows how to run a business. >>Yeah. He knows how to run a business. He's gonna, I, I think it's gonna be, you know, it's gonna be an efficient business. It's gonna be a well run business, but I think it's a pivot point for >>Broadcom. It's amazing to me, Broadcom sells to HPE. They sell it to Dell and they've got a market cap. That's 10 X, you know? Yes. Yeah. All we gotta go guys. Awesome. Great conversation guys. >>A lot. Thanks for having us on. >>Okay. Listen, uh, day two is a, is a wrap. We'll be here tomorrow, all day. Dave ante, John furrier, Lisa Martin, Lisa. Hope you're feeling okay. We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks for watching the cube, your leader in enterprise tech, live coverage.

>>Hey everyone. Welcome to the cubes coverage of PagerDuty summit 22. I'm Lisa Martin, and I'm on the ground with Michael cooky, the VP of product and marketing at PagerDuty. Michael. It's great to have you on the program. There is great momentum right now at PagerDuty. The company's fourth quarter fiscal 22 financials showed a revenue rise of 34% year over year with figures of 85.4 million for the quarter, for the first time ever. Awesome stuff. Let's talk Michael, about what some of the great things are that, um, attendees can expect from this year's summit. You know, automation has been always at the forefront of PagerDuty's focus on managing critical work, but it's a big focus for this year's summit. Let's unpack why that is. >>Sure, absolutely. Thanks so much for having me, Lisa. It's great to be here. Um, we did just finish a grade quarter. We're super excited about it. I think Summit's a good example. It kind of is aligned around the areas that we've been seeing a lot of success and momentum with our customer base. Um, and automation is definitely one of those pillars without a doubt. Um, you know what we've seen, uh, we've been at this now, uh, for over well over a decade, uh, and we've been investing in automation in kind of two major areas and I'll, and I'll explain why, um, we study our customers and what they need. And I think we can all talk about the limited time that everybody has to get their jobs done today, limited people, right? The, you know, the great rotation or the great resignation is definitely hit hitting, you know, every single industry. >>And so it results in limited skills, uh, and a lot of strain on the people that are trying to get their jobs done every day. Um, we also saw that the more you interrupt someone, so you have a very skilled worker, let's say it's a developer for example, and you're constantly interrupting them to try and get them to help you fix something. Uh, they get super unhappy and we actually on our platform prove they quit their jobs more often when they are interrupted more often. Uh, so you know, that is an area where we think automation can have huge impacts and huge returns to take limited resources and really stretch them a lot further, um, by taking care of repeat work, but also taking some of those higher skilled capabilities and handing them to more people across the enterprise. So the work could be shared across the enterprise. >>That's critical to share that work, but I also find it fascinating that you studied that and actually saw direct correlation of, of developers actually resigning from their jobs. And as you mentioned, the great resignation, something that many companies in every industry are dealing with. Let's talk a little bit about some of the things that we're announced recently. I know you guys are weaving automation actions everywhere to empower more users, to be able to, to be, to take action, to resolve issues faster, which is critical for the customer experience. It's critical for revenue. Talk a little bit about automation actions. What are some of the key things that, that delivers and enables PagerDuty to do for its customers? >>Yeah, great. So, you know, two years ago we acquired an automation company named Rundeck and we got right to work integrating their technology across the PagerDuty operations cloud and automation actions is, is the ability to execute automation from wherever you are. And so that is, um, you know, I think there's two directions to talk about automation. One is kind of what can we automate inside of an incident response? So when something's going wrong, what can we automate? What can we automate inside of our own platform? And then there's, what can we automate out in the customer's environment? So whether that's fixing something that's going wrong on a cloud or in a data center, or, uh, provisioning new resources out on the cloud so that, uh, people can scale their applications more rapidly. Um, all of that is done with automation actions, which you just mentioned. >>And so it's not enough to just be able to send work, to be done somewhere else. You have to kind of do it E everywhere. And so at summit this year, we announced that you'll be able to fire off that automation in real time using event intelligence, which is our machine learning product. So as machine learning learns something, it can then run off and try and take action based on it. And then we're delivering it to all of our users. So inside of, you know, for a responder, who's responding to a problem for a customer service representative who might be working with a customer who's having a problem, giving them automation can totally change the customer experience because now the customer service person is actually empowered, uh, to do diagnostics and try and solve problems. So, so that's right. Automation actions being delivered both in real time and to every different, uh, type of user that that leverages PagerDuty today, >>That's really quite transformative. Michael, it sounds like getting the first line responders, the corrective information that in an automated fashion, because as we know, one of the things that's been in short supply the last couple of years is patients. And one of the risks, several of the risks associated with that are customer churn, you know, poor customer experience, brand reputation, et cetera. What are some of the expected outcomes, um, with, with, uh, automation actions and one obviously speeding, mean time to repair, lowering interruptions, getting problems fixed faster, but from a customer's perspective, what are some of the outcomes that they can expect? >>Awesome. Um, great question. The there's a lot of different ways you can leverage automation, right? You just mentioned a bunch of super high return ones when something's broken and your company's actually losing customer experience or, or revenue, uh, or you're unable to deliver a service to your employees or your users. That is obviously a moment of massive return for automation in those cases. Like you said, you're gonna see a reduction in the requirements to escalate, which means that the first responder can actually solve the problem themselves. Uh, and they're not gonna have to go interrupt that more higher skilled employee. Like we talked about, uh, we see that over 50% of the time, we're actually reducing escalations by using this technology. That also means the problems are getting solved a lot faster, which you also mentioned. Um, so using automation actions to both diagnose what's going wrong, but then actually try and remediate it. >>Um, and as I mentioned earlier, we can do that before you even have to get a human being at all. We can do that with machine learning in real time, which is, uh, super powerful. And then there's a long tail of other ways to leverage, uh, automation in an environment from service provisioning and redundant tasks that are used, that are done for maintenance across an environment or provisioning, uh, provisioning services to developers so that they can get to work faster. So there's a lot to do there. Um, and, and then we're also exploring ways to, to automate, uh, outside of just technical use cases, um, which we talked a little bit about in the product keynote as well. >>One of the things that, that you mentioned earlier is that the, the data that PagerDuty has that demonstrates, um, from a resignation perspective, what happens when developers are, are really taken away from their core job? Is there any data that shows that auto, uh, automation actions, you mentioned, um, a big reduction, 50% reduction in time to respond there is that, is there a direct correlation in actually helping the folks on the front lines stay in the front lines? >>That's right. So, um, and, and also those that are coding coding, right? So, um, the, that 50% reduction means 50% time given back for them to do their primary function, which in this case is building amazing new digital services, whether that's a new customer experience, uh, or a piece of, uh, uh, digital service to drive the business and business efficiency. And so driving this automation access kind of a shock absorber for your business and for the people in your business that are, that are super taxed. And we actually release something called the state, uh, state of digital operations. And, uh, we are updating all that data actually, and announced, uh, today that that is now available on our website as well. So you can hop on there and actually see live statistics off of our platform that we culminate, uh, along with some survey statistics that are trending all of this information you're mentioning in terms of people being interrupted and then, uh, you know, churning actually from their job because they've been interrupted so many times. And so that's right, this will directly impact that. Um, and, and as we bring automation out from just developers, we hope to have an impact across the rest of the business in a very similar way, >>Absolutely transformative. I mean, you know, we, when we think about churn, it impacts to revenue. I always think the customer experience and the employee experience are inextricably linked. And, and I think what you're talking about really demonstrates that you need to be able to empower the right employees to resolve incidents, to absorb that shock as you talked about. And that's really something that for any organization in any industry globally, is no longer a nice to have. It's really something that I think sounds like a competitive differentiator that PagerDuty can help organizations really uncover and bring to the surface. >>Yeah, you're, you're hitting on one of my favorite topics, I think in, in the service of the customer in service of like customer delight and customer obsession, all of the business is now centered on the customer, which, which means that the back office is the front office they're coming together. And, um, and with the pandemic and kind of the transition that we all took into dependency on digital services, it's all starting to look very similar. And so, um, because of that, we're able to now expand our impact at PagerDuty across so much more of a business, uh, out to, uh, everything, including employee experience, um, and also accelerating the time to productivity for your, for your business, so that you can serve your customer faster. Um, we, we acquired a company recently, uh, named catalytic and, uh, their help, their technology helped us kind of accelerate a couple of pieces to market that are just the tip of the iceberg, uh, for kind of being able to rapidly automate and configure workflows for anyone at the enterprise, whether that's for a customer, uh, experience or whether it's, uh, it's to keep your business productive or efficient, uh, for business users. >>So unpack those incident workflows, you talked about the, the catalytic acquisition that was just from March. Talk to me about the incident workflows and what were customers asking for that really kind of generated this new capability that PagerDuty recently announced. >>So, you know, people lean on PagerDuty at, at all types of times, but as we've already kind of talked about the most critical time is when something is broken for the business that is vital to their business. And so when those moments happen, you know, we call those major incidents and when you're responding to a major incident across a business, you really have to do everything you can because every second really matters. And so, um, we, you know, Catalytics technology enables flexible, automated workflows of behavior when certain conditions exist. And so the first thing you're seeing from that technology is called incident workflows, which when something's going wrong, enables you to kind of automate steps of processes very, very quickly that can be carried out company wide. So this could be something like when we see that, uh, critical service is impacted, we wanna automatically send out updates across the business. >>We wanna automatically create a, an area to go troubleshoot on a, on a collaborative, you know, collab, ops platform. We wanna automatically invite the right people into that room and automatically deliver diagnostics to them and automation to them. So they can troubleshoot faster instead of a human having to take those steps in terms of firefighting and trying to re, trying to pull those coordination steps together. Now we can configure that quickly and have it, you know, happen automatically and it, and it can actually happen without a human having to trigger it. So again, this is about something's broken, we're responding. We need to be as fast as possible. You can't rely on a human anymore. You really need, you know, the, what the earlier automation we talked about was automating off our platform. Incident workflows is automating on the operations cloud. So taking steps to solve the problem when it goes wrong without needing a human being to take those steps, >>When you're in customer conversations, Michael, and you, you talk about these capabilities. What are some of the things that, that you talk to the customers about, about why automation is going to be, I wouldn't even say critical for, or, I mean, business critical table stakes for organizations it's no longer okay. To just default to depend on humans. You know, the, the customers on the other end don't want to, you know, a couple seconds delay is hugely impactful. >>Yeah. We, we call that the abandonment threshold, but that's absolutely right. So we've already talked a lot about why you have, why the, why our businesses and our employees depend on digital. I think we've covered that what's important to understand is what is digital. So contemporary applications and digital services, there, there are tens and hundreds of microservices that are powering these things. And then there's thousands of different dependencies between those services. Um, and so supporting these and understanding these is difficult. So, so being able to interpret are they operating correct correctly? And if not, what do we do about it? It's actually a problem that humans can't calculate. Um, then you throw into change, right? So everybody's now competing with the digital service. So they want to innovate as fast as possible, get new capabilities out, keep that customer excited and happy with your offering. >>And so we need to push change on that complex environment. Very often, it's a pretty hairy mess to try and solve and to do that in real time. So we, we use two arms of an area that, that we call AIOps. One is using machine learning to interpret all of those signals and figure out is what is going on? Is it happening correctly? Is something going wrong? Is, is something looking like it's going wrong. And also to determine how to fix it, if it is going wrong, do we need a person to do this or not? And then that other side is, is what we've talked about today, which is you can't bring a human in to do all the work. So you have to know how to solve the problem. So the combination of is, is what we call AIOps it's it's event intelligence, which is machine learning to understand the situation. And then it's automation to actually go out and react to it and solve the problem. That's that's this branch of our, of our platform. >>Got it. You guys have PagerDuty has 19,000 customers, including 60% of the fortune 100. Is there a customer example that, that jumps to mind to you that really articulates the value of AI ops for example, and what it is at PagerDuty is able to allow its customers to do >>Sure. Um, and, and now a million users on this platform, which is just phenomenal. And so that, that actually helps us design better machine learning, because we have so many people using this platform. Um, you know, there's, there's a great example that was just shown on in our kickoff. So if you haven't seen the product, uh, keynote, you really have to see it. We run what are called, uh, day in the life demos. And in this case, this kind of hit close to home for us, because a lot of us have been sitting in delays in airports around the globe, as we get back to our travel, uh, and, and get back to seeing people face to face. Um, but, but what we showed there is, is, uh, very, very, uh, close to real world example where, um, you know, a, a ticketing, uh, service goes down for a travel agency and it impacts everything from directly their end users, customer satisfaction, but also partner engagements and employee behaviors. >>And whether they can get the right people booked to staff, that flight, et cetera, it really throws logistical chaos on the entire business. And it's all based on digital systems. And in that you can see our, our platform helps them react and manage customers at the customer service layer. It gets the developers and the infrastructure, and it teams reacting to solve the problem instantly. They use automation to solve the problem, and they actually learn some new things in that situation. And they bring that back to the flexible workflows. So it's a, it's basically what I call a virtuous loop as they solve a problem, and they realize they could do it faster, better, quicker, or automate more of it. You're now able to bake that back into the platform so that you're basically getting better and better and better every single time you are called to solve a problem. And so over time, we like to bring our customers up. We what we call the operational maturity model. And, uh, it, in, in, in, at the end of that journey, you should really be focused on critical work for you and for your business. And the rest of it should really be handled by our platform. >>An operational flywheel that is constantly learning is impactful. As you described in that example across an entire enterprise. So many different facets there, last question, Michael, as we're running out of time, here, you, as I mentioned in the very beginning, PagerDuty is coming off amazing momentum from FY 22. What are some of the things that you're seeing, uh, for the year ahead that, that you're excited about or that we can expect? >>Uh, great question. Um, so you just saw us release automation in every area for every user. Um, I think what you're gonna see us do across automation is bring faster and more powerful value out of the box with our automation capability. Some of that will be, for example, finding homogeneous, what we call runbooks or automation calls that you can make shared across all platforms. One of our recent announcements was the ability to host process automation, either in the PagerDuty operations cloud or behind your own firewall. We also have a hosted SAS offering for process automation. And what we're gonna do is enable the very common set of automation capabilities across all of those. So it's a homogeneous environment, no matter how you are hosting or scaling your automation. So that's one, and I think number two is this workflow stuff we touched on very, very much just the tip of the iceberg, uh, leveraging kind of a no code rapid interface to build workflows, to solve the highest ROI problem, but then we're gonna take that technology. We're gonna apply it to every downstream, repetitive service in your environment. So everything from employee onboarding to critical sales processes, or legal contract management, um, you know, anything that is time critical, you're gonna be able to build these rapid workflows around, um, and PagerDuty's gonna help you keep your business, uh, you know, healthy and, and operating around them. And so that's, that's where we're gonna be focused, uh, is for the, for the next 12, uh, months I would say. And, uh, it's gonna be an exciting run. >>It is gonna be exciting run. I better let you get back to work as VP of product and marketing. You got a lot to do Michael >>That's right. Well, I'll get back to it. I appreciate the time though. Thanks for so much for the chat, Lisa, >>Thank you so much for Michael Cook. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes on the ground coverage of PagerDuty summit 22.

(light music playing) >> Welcome back to VEEAMON 2022 in Las Vegas. We're at the Aria. This is theCUBE and we're covering two days of VEEAMON. We've done a number of VEEAMONs before, we did Miami, we did New Orleans, we did Chicago and we're, we're happy to be back live after two years of virtual VEEAMONs. I'm Dave Vellante. My co-host is David Nicholson. Eric Herzog is here. You think he's, Eric's been on theCUBE, I think more than any other guest, including Pat Gelsinger, who at one point was the number one guest. Eric Herzog, CMO of INFINIDAT great to see you again. >> Great, Dave, thank you. Love to be on theCUBE. And of course notice my Hawaiian shirt, except I now am supporting an INFINIDAT badge on it. (Dave laughs) Look at that. >> Is that part of the shirt or is that a clip-on? >> Ah, you know, one of those clip-ons but you know, it looks good. Looks good. >> Hey man, what are you doing at VEEAMON? I mean, you guys started this journey into data protection several years ago. I remember we were actually at one of their competitors' events when you first released it, but tell us what's going on with Veeam. >> So we do a ton of stuff with Veeam. We do custom integration. We got some integration on the snapshotting side, but we do everything and we have a purpose built backup appliance known as InfiniGuard. It works with Veeam. We also actually have some customers who use our regular primary storage device as a backup target. The InfiniGuard product will do the data reduction, the dedupe compression, et cetera. The standard product does not, it's just a standard high performance array. We will compress the data, but we have customers that do it either way. We have a couple customers that started with the InfiniBox and then transitioned to the InfiniGuard, realizing that why would you put it on regular storage? Why not go to something that's customized for it? So we do that. We do stuff in the field with them. We've been at all the VEEAMONs since the, since like, I think the second one was the first one we came to. We're doing the virtual one as well as the live one. So we've got a little booth inside, but we're also doing the virtual one today as well. So really strong work with Veeam, particularly at the field level with the sales guys and in the channel. >> So when INFINIDAT does something, you guys go hardcore, high end, fast recovery, you just, you know, reliable, that's kind of your brand. Do you see this movement into data protection as kind of an adjacency to your existing markets? Is it a land and expand strategy? Can you kind of explain the strategy there. >> Ah, so it's actually for us a little bit of a hybrid. So we have several accounts that started with InfiniBox and now have gone with the InfiniGuard. So they start with primary storage and go with secondary storage/modern data protection. But we also have, in fact, we just got a large PO from a Fortune 50, who was buying the InfiniGuard first and now is buying our InfiniBox. >> Both ways. Okay. >> All flash array. And, but they started with backup first and then moved to, so we've got them moving both directions. And of course, now that we have a full portfolio, our original product, the InfiniBox, which was a hybrid array, outperformed probably 80 to 85% of the all flash arrays, 'cause the way we use DRAM. And what's so known as our mural cash technology. So we could do very well, but there is about, you know, 15, 20% of the workloads we could not outperform the competition. So then we had an all flash array and purpose built backup. So we can do, you know, what I'll say is standard enterprise storage, high performance enterprise storage. And then of course, modern data protection with our partnerships such as what we do with Veeam and we've incorporated across the entire portfolio, intense cyber resilience technology. >> Why does the world, Eric, need another purpose built backup appliance? What do you guys bring that is filling a gap in the marketplace? >> Well, the first thing we brought was much higher performance. So when you look at the other purpose built backup appliances, it's been about our ability to have incredibly high performance. The second area has been CapEx and OpEx reduction. So for example, we have a cloud service provider who happens to be in South Africa. They had 14 purpose built backup appliances from someone else, seven in one data center and seven in another. Now they have two InfiniGuards, one in each data center handling all of their backup. You know, they're selling backup as a service. They happen to be using Veeam as well as one other backup company. So if you're the cloud provider from their perspective, they just dramatically reduce their CapEx and OpEx. And of course they've made it easier for them. So that's been a good story for us, that ability to consolidation, whether it be on primary storage or secondary storage. We have a very strong play with cloud providers, particularly those meeting them in small that have to compete with the hyperscalers right. They don't have the engineering of Amazon or Google, right? They can't compete with what the Azure guys have got, but because the way both the InfiniGuard and the InfiniBox work, they could dramatically consolidate workloads. We probably got 30 or 40 midsize and actually several members of the top 10 telcos use us. And when they do their clouds, both their internal cloud, but actually the clouds that are actually running the transmissions and the traffic, it actually runs on InfiniBox. One of them has close to 200 petabytes of InfiniBox and InfiniBox, all flash technology running one of the largest telcos on the planet in a cloud configuration. So all that's been very powerful for us in driving revenue. >> So phrases of the week have been air gap, logical air gap, immutable. Where does InfiniGuard fit into that universe? And what's the profile of the customer that's going to choose InfiniGuard as the target where they're immutable, Write Once Read Many, data is going to live. >> So we did, we announced our InfiniSafe technology first on the InfiniGuard, which actually earlier this year. So we have what I call the four legs of the stool of cyber resilience. One is immutable snapshots, but that's only part of it. Second is logical air gapping, and we can do both local and remote and we can provide and combine local with remote. So for example, what that air gap does is separate the management plane from the actual data plane. Okay. So in this case, the Veeam data backup sets. So the management cannot touch that immutable, can't change it, can't delete it. can't edit it. So management is separated once you start and say, I want to do an immutable snap of two petabytes of Veeam backup dataset. Then we just do that. And the air gap does it, but then you could take the local air gap because as you know, from inception to the end of an attack can be close to 300 days, which means there could be a fire. There could be a tornado, there could be a hurricane, there could be an earthquake. And in the primary data center, So you might as well have that air gap just as you would do- do a remote for disaster recovery and business continuity. Then we have the ability to create a fenced forensic environment to evaluate those backup data sets. And we can do that actually on the same device. That is the purpose built backup appliance. So when you look at the architectural, these are public from our competitors, including the guys that are in sort of Hopkinton/Austin, Texas. You can see that they show a minimum of two physical devices. And in many cases, a third, we can do that with one. So not only do we get the fence forensic environment, just like they do, but we do it with reduction, both CapEx and OpEx. Purpose built backup is very high performance. And then the last thing is our ability to recover. So some people talk about rapid recovery, I would say, they dunno what they're talking about. So when we launched the InfiniGuard with InfiniSafe, we did a live demo, 1.5 petabytes, a Veeam backup dataset. We recovered it in 12 minutes. So once you've identified and that's on the InfiniGuard. On the InfiniBox, once you've identified a good copy of data to do the recovery where you're free of malware ransomware, we can do the recovery in three to five seconds. >> Okay. >> So really, really quick. Actually want to double click on something because people talk about immutable copies, immutable snapshots in particular, what have the actual advances been? I mean, is this simply a setting that maybe we didn't set for retention at some time in the past, or if you had to engineer something net new into a system so to provide that logical air gap. >> So what's net new is the air gapping part. Immutable snapshots have been around, you know, before we were on screen, you talked about WORM, Write Once Read Many. Well, since I'm almost 70 years old, I actually know what that means. When you're 30 or 40 or 50, you probably don't even know what a WORM is. Okay. And the real use of immutable snapshots, it was to replace WORM which was an optical technology. And what was the primary usage? Regulatory and compliance, healthcare, finance and publicly traded companies that were worried about. The SEC or the EU or the Japanese finance ministry coming down on them because they're out of compliance and regulatory. That was the original use of immutable snap. Then people were, well, wait a second. Malware ransomware could attack me. And if I got something that's not changeable, that makes it tougher. So the real magic of immutability was now creating the air gap part. Immutability has been around, I'd say 25 years. I mean, WORMs sort of died back when I was at Mac store the first time. So that was 1990-ish is when WORMs sort of fell away. And there have been immutable snapshots from most of the major storage vendors, as well as a lot of the small vendors ever since they came out, it's kind of like a checkbox item because again, regulatory and compliance, you're going to sell to healthcare, finance, public trade. If you don't have the immutable snapshot, then they don't have their compliance and regulatory for SEC or tax purposes, right? With they ever end up in an audit, you got to produce data. And no one's using a WORM drive anymore to my knowledge. >> I remember the first storage conference I ever went to was in Monterey. It had me in the early 1980s, 84 maybe. And it was a optical disc drive conference. The Jim Porter of optical. >> Yep. (laughs) >> I forget what the guy's name was. And I remember somebody coming up to me, I think it was like Bob Payton rest his soul, super smart strategy guy said, this is never going to happen because of the cost and that's what it was. And now you've got that capability on flash, you know, hard disk, et cetera. >> Right. >> So the four pillars, immutability, the air gap, both local and remote, the fence forensics and the recovery speed. Right? >> Right. Pick up is one thing. Recovery is everything. Those are the four pillars, right? >> Those are the four things. >> And your contention is that those four things together differentiate you from the competition. You mentioned, you know, the big competition, but how unique is this in the marketplace, those capabilities and how difficult is it to replicate? >> So first of all, if someone really puts their engineering hat to it, it's not that hard to replicate. It takes a while. Particularly if you're doing an enterprise, for example, our solutions all have a hundred percent availability guarantee. That's hard to do. Most guys have seven nines. >> That's hard. >> We really will guarantee a hundred percent availability. We offer an SLA that's included when you buy. We don't charge extra for it. It's like if you want it, like you just get it. Second thing is really making sure on the recovery side is the hardest part, particularly on a purpose built backup appliance. So when you look at other people and you delve into their public material, press releases, white paper, support documentation. No one's talking about. Yeah, we can take a 1.5 petabyte Veeam backup data set and make it available in 12 minutes and 12 seconds, which was the exact time that we did on our live demo when we launched the product in February of 2022. No one's talking that. On primary storage, you're hearing some of the vendors such as my old employer that also who, also starts with an "I", talk about a recovery time of two to three hours once you have a known good copy. On primary storage, once we have a known good copy, we're talking three to five seconds for that copy to be available. So that's just sort of the power of the snapshot technology, how we manage our metadata and what we've done, which previous to cyber resiliency, we were known for our replication capability and our snapshot capability from an enterprise class data store. That's what people said. INFINIDAT really knows how to do the replication snapshot. I remember our founder was one of the technical founders of EMC for a product known as the Symmetric, which then became the DMAX, the VMAX and is now is the PowerMax. That was invented by the guy who founded INFINIDAT. So that team has the real chops at enterprise high-end storage to the global fortune 2000. And what are the key feature checkbox items they need that's in both the InfiniBox and also in the InfiniGuard. >> So the business case for cyber resiliency is changing. As Dave said, we've had a big dose last several months, you know, couple years actually, of the importance of cyber resiliency, given all the ransomware tax, et cetera. But it sounds like the business case is shifting really focused on avoiding that risk, avoiding that downtime time versus the cost. The cost is always important. I mean, you got a consolidation play here, right? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Dedupe, does dedupe come into play? >> So on the InfiniGuard we do both dedupe and compression. On the InfiniBox we only do compression. So we do have data reduction. It depends on which product you're using from a Veeam perspective. Most of that now is with the InfiniGuard. So you get the block level dedupe and you get compression. And if you can do both, depending on the data set, we do both. >> How does that affect recovery time? >> Yeah, good question. >> So it doesn't affect recovery times. >> Explain why. >> So first of all, when you're doing a backup data set, the final final recovery, you recovered the backup data set, whether it's Veeam or one of their competitors, you actually make it available to the backup administrator to do a full restore of a backup data set. Okay. So in that case, we get it ready and expose it to the Veeam admin or some other backup admin. And then they launch the Veeam software or the other software and do a restore. Okay. So it's really a two step process on the secondary storage model and actually three. First identifying a known good backup copy. Second then we recover, which is again 12, 13 minutes. And then the backup admin's got to do a, you know, a restore of the backup 'cause it's backup data set in the format of backup, which is different from every backup vendor. So we support that. We get it ready to go. And then whether it's a Veeam backup administrator and quite honestly, from our perspective, most of our customers in the global fortune 2000, 25% of the fortune 50 use INIFINIDAT products. 25% and we're a tiny company. So we must have some magic fairy dust that appeals to the biggest companies on the planet. But most of our customers in that area and actually say probably in the fortune 500 actually use two to three different backup packages. So we can support all those on a single InfiniGuard or multiples depending on how big their backup data sets. Our biggest InfiniGuard is 50 petabytes counting the data reduction technology. So we get that ready. On the InfiniBox, the recovery really is, you know, a couple of seconds and in that case, it's primary data in block format. So we just make that available. So on the InfiniBox, the recovery is once, well two. Identifying a known good copy, first step, then just doing recovery and it's available 'cause it's blocked data. >> And that recovery doesn't include movement of a whole bunch of data. It's essentially realignment of pointers to where the good data is. >> Right. >> Now in the InfiniBox as well as in InfiniGuard. >> No, it would be, So in the case of that, in the case of the InfiniGuard, it's a full recovery of a backup data set. >> Okay. >> So the backup software just launches and it sees, >> Okay. >> your backup one of Veeam and just starts doing a restore with the Veeam restoration technology. Okay? >> Okay. >> In the case of the block, as long as the physical InfiniBox, if that was the primary storage and then filter box is not damaged when you make it available, it's available right away to the apps. Now, if you had an issue with the app side or the physical server side, and now you're pointing new apps and you had to reload stuff on that side, you have to point it at that InfiniBox which has the data. And then you got to wait for the servers and the SAP or Oracle or Mongo, Cassandra to recognize, oh, this is my primary storage. So it depends on the physical configuration on the server side and the application perspective, how bad were the apps damaged? So let's take malware. Malware is even worse because you either destroying data or messing, playing with the app so that the app is now corrupted as well as the data is corrupted. So then it's going to take longer the block data's ready, the SAP workload. And if the SAP somehow was compromised, which is a malware thing, not a ransomware thing, they got to reload a good copy of SAP before it can see the data 'cause the malware attacked the application as well as the data. Ransomware doesn't do that. It just holds it for ransom and it encrypts. >> So this is exactly what we're talking about. When we talk about operational recovery and automation, Eric is addressing the reality that it doesn't just end at the line above some arbitrary storage box, you know, reaching up real recovery, reaches up into the application space and it's complicated. >> That's when you're actually recovered. >> Right. >> When the application- >> Well, think of it like a disaster. >> Okay. >> Yes, right. >> I'll knock on woods since I was born and still live in California. Dave too. Let's assume there's a massive earthquake in the bay area in LA. >> Let's not. >> Okay. Let's yes, but hypothetically and the data center's cat five. It doesn't matter what they're, they're all toast. Okay. Couple weeks later it's modern. You know, people figure out what to do and certain buildings don't fall down 'cause of the way earthquake standards are in California now. So there's data available. They move into temporary space. Okay. Data's sitting there in the Colorado data center and they could do a restore. Well, they can't do a restore. How many service did they need? Had they reloaded all of the application software to do a restoration. What happened to the people? If no one got injured, like in the 1989 earthquake in California, very few people got injured yet cost billions of dollars. But everyone was watching this San Francisco giants played in Oakland, >> I remember >> so no one was on the road. >> Al Michael's. >> Epic moment. >> Imagine it's in the middle of commute time in LA and San Francisco, hundreds of thousands of people. What if it's your data center team? Right? So there's a whole bunch around disaster recovery and business country that have nothing to do with the storage, the people, what your process. So I would argue that malware ransomware is a disaster and it's exactly the same thing. You know, you got the known good copy. You've got okay. You're sure that the SAP and Oracle, especially on the malware side, weren't compromised. On the ransomware side, you don't have to worry about that. And those things, you got to take a look at just as if it, I would argue malware and ransomware is a disaster and you need to have a process just like you would. If there was an earthquake, a fire or a flood in the data center, you need a similar process. That's slightly different, but the same thing, servers, people, software, the data itself. And when you have that all mapped out, that's how you do successful malware ransomeware recovery. It's a different type of disaster. >> It's absolutely a disaster. It comes down to business continuity and be able to transact business with as little disruption as possible. We heard today from the keynotes and then Jason Buffington came on about the preponderance of ransomware. Okay. We know that. But then the interesting stat was the percentage of customers that paid the ransom about a third weren't able to recover. And so 'cause you kind of had this feeling of all right, well, you know, see it on, you know, CNBC, should you pay the ransom or not? You know, pay the ransom. Okay. You'll get back. But no, it's not the case. You won't necessarily get back. So, you know, Veeam stated, Hey, our goal is to sort of eliminate that problem. Are you- You feel like you guys in a partnership can actually achieve that. >> Yes. >> So, and you have customers that have actually avoided, you know, been hit and were able to- >> We have people who won't publicly say they've been hit, but the way they talk about what they did, like in a meeting, they were hit and they were very thankful. >> (laughs) Yeah. >> And so that's been very good. I- >> So we got proof. >> Yes, we absolutely have proof. And quite honestly, with the recent legislation in the United States, malware and ransomware actually now is also regulatory and compliance. >> Yeah. >> Because the new law states mid-March that whether it's Herzog's bar and grill to bank of America or any large foreign company doing business in the US, you have to report to the United States federal government, any attack, same with the county school district with any local government, any agency, the federal government, as well as every company from the tiniest to the largest in the world that does, they're supposed to report it 'cause the government is trying to figure out how to fight it. Just the way if you don't report burglary, how they catch the burglars. >> Does your solution simplify testing in any way or reduce the risk of testing? >> Well, because the recovery is so rapid, we recommend that people do this on a regular basis. So for example, because the recovery is so quick, you can recover in 12 minutes while we do not practice, let's say once a month or once every couple weeks. And guess what? It also allows you to build a repository of known good copies. Remember when you get ransomeware, no one's going to come say, Hey, I'm Mr. Rans. I'm going to steal your stuff. It's all done surreptitiously. They're all James Bond on the sly who doesn't say "By the way, I'm James Bond". They are truly underneath the radar. And they're very slowly encrypting that data set. So guess what? Your primary data and your backup data that you don't want to be attacked can be attacked. So it's really about finding a known good copy. So if you're doing this on a regular basis, you can get an index of known good copies. >> Right. >> And then, you know, oh, I can go back to last Tuesday and you know that that's good. Otherwise you're literally testing Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday to try to find a known good copy, which delays the recovery process 'cause you really do have to test. They make sure it's good. >> If you increase that frequency, You're going to protect yourself. That's why I got to go. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBEs. Great to see you. >> Great. Thank you very much. I'll be wearing a different Hawaiian shirt next to. >> All right. That sounds good. >> All right, Eric Herzog, Eric Herzog on theCUBE, Dave Vallante for David Nicholson. We'll be right back at VEEAMON 2022. Right after this short break. (light music playing)

>> Announcer: From around the globe it's theCUBE with digital coverage of IBM Think 2021. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of IBM Think 2021 Virtual. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. And it's theCUBE Virtual and Uli Homann who's here, Corporate Vice President of Cloud & AI at Microsoft. Thanks for comin' on. I love this session. Obviously, Microsoft one of the big clouds. Awesome. You guys partnering with IBM here, at IBM Think. I remember during the client-server days in the '80s, late '80s to early '90s the open systems interconnect was a big part of opening up the computer industry. That was networking, intra-networking and really created more LANs and more connections for PCs et cetera, and the world just went on from there. Similar now with hybrid cloud, you're seeing that same kind of vibe, right? You're seeing that same kind of alignment with distributed computing architectures for businesses. Where now you have, it's not just networking and plumbing, and connecting, you know, LANs and PCs, and printers, it's connecting everything. It's kind of almost a whole 'nother world, but similar movie, if you will. So this is really going to be good for people who understand that market. IBM does, you guys do. Talk about the alignment between IBM and Microsoft in this new hybrid cloud space. It's really kind of now standardized, but yet it's just now coming. >> Yeah, so again, fantastic question. So the way I think about this is first of all, Microsoft and IBM are philosophically very much aligned. We're both investing in key open source initiatives like the Cloud Native Compute Foundation, CNCF, something that we both believe in. We're both partnering with the Red Hat organization so Red Hat forms a common bond, if you so want to, between Microsoft and IBM. And again, part of this is how can we establish a system of capabilities that every client has access to, and then build on top of that stack. And again, IBM does this very well with their Cloud Paks which are coming out now with data and AI, and others. So open source, open standards are key elements and then you mentioned something critical which I believe is not under, misunderstood, but certainly not appreciated enough is this is about connectivity between businesses and so part of the power of the IBM perspective together with Microsoft is bringing together key business applications for health care, for retail, for manufacturing and really make them work together so that our clients that are-- critical scenarios get the support they need from both IBM as well as Microsoft on top of this common foundation of the CNCF and other open standards. >> You know, it's interesting, I love that point. I'm going to double-down and amplify that and continue to bring it up. Connecting between businesses is one thread but now, people, because you have an edge that's also industrial, business, but also people. People are also participating in open source, people have wearables, people are connected so they can, and also they're connecting with collaboration. So this kind of brings a whole 'nother architecture which I want to get into the solutions with you on on how you see that playing out. But first, I know, you know, you're a veteran with Microsoft for many, many years, for decades. Microsoft's core competency has been ecosystems, developer ecosystems, customer ecosystems. Today, that the services motion is build around ecosystems. You guys have that playbook, IBM's well versed in it, as well. How does that impact your partnerships, your solutions, and how you deal with down this open marketplace? >> Well, let's start with the obvious. Obviously, Microsoft and IBM will work together in common ecosystems. Again, I'm going to reference the CNCF again as the foundation for a lot of these initiatives. But then we are also working together in the Red Hat ecosystem because Red Hat has built an ecosystem that Microsoft and IBM are players in that ecosystem. However, we also are looking higher level 'cause a lot of times when people think ecosystems, it's fairly low-level technology. But Microsoft and IBM are talking about partnerships that are focused on industry scenarios. Again, retail for example, or health care and others where we're building on top of these lower-level ecosystem capabilities and then bringing together the solution scenarios where the strength of IBM capabilities is coupled with Microsoft capabilities to drive this very famous one plus one equals three. And then the other piece that I think we both agree on is the open source ecosystem for software development and software development collaboration. And GitHub is a common anchor that we both believe can feed the world's economy with respect to the software solutions that are needed to really, yeah, bring the capabilities forward, help improve the world's economy and so forth by effectively bringing together brilliant minds across the ecosystem and again, just Microsoft and IBM bringing some people, but the rest of the world obviously participating in that, as well. So thinking again, open source, open standards, and then industry-specific collaboration and capabilities being a key part. You mentioned people. We certainly believe that people play a key role, software developers and the GitHub notion being a key one. But there are others where again, Microsoft with Microsoft 365 has a lot of capabilities in connecting people within the organization and across organizations. And while we're using Zoom, here, a lot of people are utilizing Teams 'cause Teams is on the one side of collaboration platform, but on the other side is also an application host. And so bringing together people collaboration supported and powered by applications from IBM, from Microsoft and others, is going to be, I think, a huge differentiation in terms of how people interact with software in the future. >> Yeah, and I think that whole joint development is a big part of this new people equation where it's not just partnering in market, it's also at the tech, and you've got open source, and it's a just phenomenal innovation formula, there. So let's ask what solutions, here. I want to get into some of the top solutions you're doing that Microsoft that maybe with IBM. But your title as the Corporate Vice President Cloud & AI, c'mon, could you get a better department? I mean, more relevant than that? I mean, it's exciting. You know, cloud scale is driving tons of innovation, AI is eating software or changing the software paradigm. We're going to see that playing out. I've done dozens of interviews just in this past month on how AI's a more, certainly with machine learning, and having a control plane with data, changing the game. So tell us, what are the hot solutions for hybrid cloud and why is this a different ballgame than say, public cloud? >> Well, so first of all, let's talk a little bit about the AI capabilities and data because I think they're two categories. You are seeing an evolution of AI capabilities that are coming out. And again, I just read IBM's announcement about integrating the Cloud Pak with IBM Satellite. I think that's a key capability that IBM is putting out there and we are partnering with IBM in two directions, there. IBM has done a fantastic job to build AI capabilities that are relevant for industries, health care being a very good example, again, retail being another one. And I believe Microsoft and IBM will work on both partnership on the technology side as well as the AI usage in specific verticals. Microsoft is doing similar things. Within our Dynamics product line, we're using AI for business applications, for planning, scheduling, optimizations, risk assessments, those kind of scenarios. And of course, we're using those in the Microsoft 365 environment, as well. I always joke that despite my 30 years at Microsoft, I still don't know how to really use PowerPoint and I can't do a PowerPoint slide for the life of me, but with a new designer, I can actually get help from the system to make beautiful PowerPoint happen. So bringing AI into real life usage I think is the key part. The hybrid scenario is critical here, as well, especially when you start to think about real life scenarios like safety, worker safety in a critical environment, freshness of product. We're seeing retailers deploying cameras and AI inside the retail stores to effectively make sure that the shelves are stocked, that the quality of the vegetables, for example, continues to be high and monitored. And previously, people would do this on an occasional basis running around in the store. Now the store is monitored 24/7 and people get notified when things need fixing. Another really cool scenario set is quality. We are working with a Finnish steel producer that effectively is looking at the stainless steel as it's being produced and they have cameras on this steel that look at specific marks. And if these marks show up then they know that the stainless steel will be bad. And I don't know if you have looked at a manufacturing process, but the earlier they can get failures detected, the better it is because they can most likely, or more often than not, return the product back into the beginning of the funnel and start over. And that's what they're using. So you can see molten steel, logically speaking, with a camera and AI. And previously, humans did this which is obviously A, less reliable and B, dangerous because this is very, very hot, this is very glowing steel. And so increasing safety while at the same time improving the quality is something that we see in hybrid scenarios. Again, autonomous driving, another great scenario where perception AI is going to be utilized. So there's a bunch of capabilities out there that really are hybrid in nature and will help us move forward with key scenarios, safety, quality, and autonomous behaviors like driving and so forth. >> Uli, great, great insight. Great product vision. Great alignment with IBM's hybrid cloud space what all customers are lookin' for, now. And certainly multicloud around the horizon. So great to have you on. Great agility, and congratulations for your continued success. You've got a great area, cloud and AI, and we'll be keeping in touch. I'd love to do a deep dive, sometime. Thanks for coming on. >> John, thank you very much for the invitation and great questions, great interview. Love it, appreciate it. >> Thank you very much. Okay, theCUBE coverage here, at IBM Think 2021 Virtual. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. (soft electronic music) ♪ Dah-De-Da ♪ ♪ Dah-De ♪

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: From around the globe. It's theCUBE with digital coverage of IBM Think 2021. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to theCUBE coverage of IBM. Think 2021 virtual. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. And this is theCUBE virtual and Uli Homann who's here Corporate Vice President, of cloud and AI at Microsoft. Thanks for coming on. I love this session, obviously, Microsoft one of the big clouds. Awesome. You guys partnering with IBM here at IBM Think. First of all, congratulations on all the success with Azure and just the transformation of IBM. I mean, Microsoft's Cloud has been phenomenal and hybrid is spinning perfectly into the vision of what enterprises want. And this has certainly been a great tailwind for everybody. So congratulations. So for first question, thanks for coming on and tell us the vision for hybrid cloud for Microsoft. It's almost like a perfect storm. >> Yeah. Thank you, John. I really appreciate you hosting me here and asking some great questions. We certainly appreciate it being part of IBM Think 2021 virtual. Although I do wish to see some people again, at some point. From our perspective, hybrid computing has always been part of the strategy that Microsoft as policed. We didn't think that public cloud was the answer to all questions. We always believed that there is multiple scenarios where either safety latency or other key capabilities impeded the usage of public cloud. Although we will see more public cloud scenarios with 5G and other capabilities coming along. Hybrid computing will still be something that is important. And Microsoft has been building capabilities on our own as a first party solution like Azure Stack and other capabilities. But we also partnering with VMware and others to effectively enable investment usage of capabilities that our clients have invested in to bring them forward into a cloud native application and compute model. So Microsoft is continuing investing in hybrid computing and we're taking more and more Azure capabilities and making them available in a hybrid scenario. For example, we took our entire database Stack SQL Server PostgreSQL and recently our Azure machine learning capabilities and make them available on a platform so that clients can run them where they need them in a factory in on-premise environment or in another cloud for example, because they trust the Microsoft investments in relational technology or machine learning. And we're also extending our management capabilities that Azure provides and make them available for Kubernetes virtual machine and other environments wherever they might run. So we believe that bringing Azure capabilities into our clients is important and taking also the capabilities that our clients are using into Azure and make it available so that they can manage them end to end is a key element of our strategy. >> Yeah. Thanks Uli for sharing that, I really appreciate that. You and I have been in this industry for a while. And you guys have a good view on this how Microsoft's got perspective riding the wave from the original computer industry. I remember during the client server days in the 80s, late 80s to early 90s the open systems interconnect was a big part of opening up the computer industry that was networking, internetworking and really created more lans and more connections for PCs, et cetera. And the world just went on from there. Similar now with hybrid cloud you're seeing that same kind of vibe. You seeing the same kind of alignment with distributed computing architectures for businesses where now you have, it's not just networking and plumbing and connecting lans and PCs and printers. It's connecting everything. It's almost kind of a whole another world but similar movie, if you will. So this is really going to be good for people who understand that market. IBM does, you guys do. Talk about the alignment between IBM and Microsoft in this new hybrid cloud space? It's really kind of now standardized but yet it's just now coming. >> Yeah. So again, fantastic question. So the way I think about this is first of all, Microsoft and IBM are philosophically very much aligned. We're both investing in key open source initiatives like the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, CNCF something that we both believe in. We are both partnering with the Red Hat organizations. So Red Hat forms a common bond if you still want to between Microsoft and IBM. And again, part of this is how can we establish a system of capabilities that every client has access to and then build on top of that stack. And again, IBM does this very well with their cloud packs which are coming out now with data and AI and others. And again, as I mentioned before we're investing in similar capabilities to make sure that core Azure functions are available on that CNCF cloud environment. So open source, open standards are key elements. And then you mentioned something critical which I believe is misunderstood but certainly not appreciated enough is, this is about connectivity between businesses. And so part of the power of the IBM perspective together with Microsoft is bringing together key business applications for healthcare, for retail, for manufacturing and really make them work together so that our clients that are critical scenarios get the support they need from both IBM as well as Microsoft on top of this common foundation of the CNCF and other open standards. >> It's interesting. I love that point. I'm going to double down and amplify that late and continue to bring it up. Connecting between businesses is one thread. But now people, because you have an edge, that's also industrial business but also people. People are participating in open source. People have wearables, people are connected. And also they're connecting with collaboration. So this kind of brings a whole 'nother architecture which I want to get into the solutions with you on on how you see that playing out. But first I know, you're a veteran with Microsoft for many, many years of decades. Microsoft's core competency has been ecosystems developer ecosystems, customer ecosystems. Today, that the services motion is built around ecosystems. You guys have that playbook IBM's well versed in it as well. How does that impact your partnerships, your solutions and how you deal with down this open marketplace? >> Well, let's start with the obvious. Obviously Microsoft and IBM will work together in common ecosystem. Again, I'm going to reference the CNCF again as the foundation for a lot of these initiatives. But then we're also working together in the ed hat ecosystem because Red Hat has built an ecosystem and Microsoft and IBM are players in that ecosystem. However, we also are looking a higher level there's a lot of times when people think ecosystems it's fairly low level technology. But Microsoft and IBM are talking about partnerships that are focused on industry scenarios. Again retail, for example, or healthcare and others where we're building on top of these lower level ecosystem capabilities and then bringing together the solution scenarios where the strength of IBM capabilities is coupled with Microsoft capabilities to drive this very famous one plus one equals three. And then the other piece that I think we both agree on is the open source ecosystem for software development and software development collaboration and GitHub is a common anchor that we both believe can feed the world's economy with respect to the software solutions that are needed to really bring the capabilities forward, help improve the wealth economy and so forth by effectively bringing together brilliant minds across the ecosystem. And again, just Microsoft and IBM bringing some people but the rest of the world obviously participating in that as well. So thinking again, open source, open standards and then industry specific collaboration and capabilities being a key part. You mentioned people. We certainly believe that people play a key role in software developers and the get hub notion being a key one. But there are others where, again, Microsoft with Microsoft 365 has a lot of capabilities in connecting people within the organization and across organizations. And while we're using zoom here, a lot of people are utilizing teams because teams is on the one side of collaboration platform. But on the other side is also an application host. And so bringing together people collaboration supported and powered by applications from IBM from Microsoft and others is going to be, I think a huge differentiation in terms of how people interact with software in the future. >> Yeah, and I think that whole joint development is a big part of this new people equation where it's not just partnering in market, it's also at the tech and you got open source and just phenomenal innovation, a formula there. So let's ask what solutions here. I want to get into some of the top solutions you're doing with Microsoft and maybe with IBM, but your title is corporate vice president of cloud and AI come on, cause you get a better department. I mean, more relevant than that. I mean, it's exciting. Your cloud-scale is driving tons of innovation. AI is eating software, changing the software paradigm. We can see that playing out. I've done dozens of interviews just in this past month on how AI is more certainly with machine learning and having a control plane with data, changing the game. So tell us what are the hot solutions for hybrid cloud? And why is this a different ball game than say public cloud? >> Well, so first of all let's talk a little bit about the AI capabilities and data because I think there are two categories. You're seeing an evolution of AI capabilities that are coming out. And again, I just read IBM's announcement about integrating the cloud pack with IBM Satellite. I think that's a key capability that IBM is putting out there and we're partnering with IBM in two directions there. Making it run very well on Azure with our Red Hat partners. But on the other side, also thinking through how we can optimize the experience for clients that choose Azure as their platform and IBM cloud Pak for data and AI as their technology, but that's a technology play. And then the next layer up is again, IBM has done a fantastic job to build AI capabilities that are relevant for industries. Healthcare being a very good example. Again, retail being another one. And I believe Microsoft and IBM will work on both partnerships on the technology side as well as the AI usage in specific verticals. Microsoft is doing similar things within our dynamics product line. We're using AI for business applications for planning, scheduling, optimizations, risk assessments those kinds of scenarios. And of course we're using those in the Microsoft 365 environment as well. I always joke that despite my 30 years at Microsoft, I still don't know how to read or use PowerPoint. And I can't do a PowerPoint slide for the life of me but with a new designer, I can actually get help from the system to make beautiful PowerPoint happen. So bringing AI into real life usage I think is the key part. The hybrid scenario is critical here as well. And especially when you start to think about real life scenarios, like safety, worker safety in a critical environment, freshness of product we're seeing retailers deploying cameras and AI inside the retail stores to effectively make sure that the shelves are stocked. That the quality of the vegetables for example, continues to be high and monitored. And previously people would do this on a occasional basis running around in the store. Now the store is monitored 24/7 and people get notified when things need fixing. Another really cool scenario set, is quality. We're working with a finished steel producer that effectively is looking at the stainless steel as it's being produced. And they have cameras on this steel that look at specific marks. And if these marks show up, then they know that the stainless steel will be bad. And I don't know if you've looked at a manufacturing process, but the earlier they can get a failure detected the better it is because they can most likely or more often than not return the product back into the beginning of the funnel and start over. And that's what they're using. So you can see molten steel, logically speaking with a camera and AI. And previously humans did this which is obviously a less reliable and be dangerous because this is very, very hot. This is very blowing steel. And so increasing safety while at the same time, improving the quality is something that we see hybrid scenarios. Again, autonomous driving, another great scenario where perception AI is going to be utilized. So there's a bunch of capabilities out there that really are hybrid in nature and will help us move forward with key scenarios, safety, quality and autonomous behaviors like driving and so forth. >> Uli, great insight, great product vision great alignment with IBM's hybrid cloud space with all customers are looking for now and certainly multi-cloud around the horizon. So great to have you on, great agility and congratulations for your continued success. You got great area cloud and AI and we'll be keeping in touch. I'd love to do a deep dive sometime. Thanks for coming on. >> John, thank you very much for the invitation and great questions. Great interview. Love it. Appreciate it. >> Okay, CUBE coverage here at IBM Think 2021 virtual. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to this BizOps Manifesto Power Panel, Data Lake or Data Landfill. We're going to be talking about that today. I've got three guests joining me. We're going to dive through that. Kieran Taylor is here the CMO of Broadcom's Enterprise Software Division. Kieran, great to have you on the program. >> Thank you, Lisa. >> Kevin Surace is here as well. Chairman and CTO of Appvance, hey Kevin. >> Hey Lisa. >> And Isaac Sacolick Author and CEO of StarCIO. Isaac, welcome. >> Hi Lisa, thanks for having me. >> So we're going to spend the next 25 to 30 minutes talking about the challenges and the opportunities that data brings to organizations. You guys are going to share some of your best practices for how organizations can actually sort through all this data to make data-driven decisions. We're also going to be citing some statistics from the Inaugural BizOps Industry Survey of the State of Digital Business in which 519 business and technology folks were surveyed across five nations. Let's go ahead and jump right in and the first one in that server that I just mentioned 97% of organizations say we've got data related challenges, limiting the amount of information that we actually have available to the business. Big conundrum there. How do organizations get out of that conundrum? Kieran, we're going to start with you. >> Thanks Lisa. You know, I think, I don't know if it's so much limiting information as it is limiting answers. There's no real shortage of data I don't think being captured, recently met with a unnamed auto manufacturer Who's collecting petabytes of data from their connected cars and they're doing that because they don't really yet know what questions they have of the data. So I think you get out of this Data Landfill conundrum by first understanding what questions to ask. It's not algorithms, it's not analytics. It's not, you know, math that's going to solve this problem. It's really, really understanding your customer's issues and what questions to ask of the data >> Understanding what questions to ask of the data. Kevin, what are your thoughts? >> Yeah, look, I think it gets down to what questions you want to ask and what you want out of it, right? So there's questions you want to ask but what are the business outcomes you're looking for, which is the core of BizOps anyway, right? What are the business outcomes and what business outcomes can I act upon? So there are so many business outcomes you can get from data and you go, well, I can't legally act upon that. I can't practically act upon that. I can't, whether it's lay off people or hire people or whatever it is, right? So what are the actionable items? There is plenty of data. We would argue too much data. Now we could say, is the data good? Is the data bad? Is it poorly organized? Is it, noisy? There's all other problems, right? There's plenty of data. What do I do with it? What can I do that's actionable? If I was an automaker and I had lots of sensors on the road, I had petabytes, as Kieran says and I'd probably bringing in petabytes potentially every day. Well, I could make myself driving systems better. That's an obvious place to start or that's what I would do but I could also potentially use that to change people's insurance and say, if you drive in a certain way something we've never been able to do. If you drive in a certain way, based on the sensors you get a lower insurance rate, then nobody's done that. But now there's interesting business opportunities for that data that you didn't have one minute ago and I just gave away. So, (laughs) it's all about the actionable items in the data. How do you drive something to the top line and the bottom line? 'Cause in the end, that's how we're all measured. >> And Isaac, I know you say data is the lifeblood. What are your thoughts on this conundrum? >> Well, I think, you know, they gave you the start and the end of the equation, start with a question. What are you really trying to answer? What you don't understand that you want to learn about your business connect it to an outcome that is valuable to you. And really what most organizations struggle with is a process that goes through discovery, learning what's in the data, addressing data, quality issues, loading new data sources if required and really doing that iteratively and we're all agile people here at BizOps, right? So doing it iteratively, getting some answers out and understanding what the issues are with the underlying data and then going back and revisiting and reprioritizing what you want to do next. Do you want to go look at another question? Is the answer heading down a path that you can drive outcomes? Do you got to go cleanse some data? So it's really that, how do you put it together so that you can peel the onion back and start looking at data and getting insights out of it. >> Great advice, another challenge though, that the survey identified was that nearly 70% of the respondents and again, 519 business and technology professionals from five countries said, we are struggling to create business metrics from our data with so much data, so much that we can't access. Can you guys share best practices for how organizations would sort through and identify the best data sources from which they can identify the ideal business metrics? Kieran, take it away. >> Sure thing, I guess I'll build on Isaac's statements. Every company has some gap in data, right? And so when you do that, that data gap analysis I think you really, I don't know. It's like Alice in Wonderland, begin at the beginning, right? You start with that question like Isaac said, And I think the best questions are really born from an understanding of what your customers value. And if you dig into that, you understand what the customers value, you build it off of actual customer feedback, market research then you know what questions to ask and then from that, hey, what inputs do I need to really understand how to solve that particular business issue or problem. >> Kevin, what are your thoughts? >> Yeah, I'm going to add to that, completely agree but, look, let's start with sales data, right? So sales data is something, everybody watching this understands, even if they're not in sales, they go well, okay, I understand sales data. What's interesting there is we know who our customers are. We could probably figure out if we have enough data, why they buy, are they buying because of a certain sales person? Are they buying because it's a certain region? Are they buying because of some demographic that we don't understand, but AI can pull out, right? So I would like to know, who's buying and why they're buying. Because if I know that I might make more of what more of those people want whatever that is, certain fundamental sales changes or product changes or whatever it is. So if you could certainly start there, if you start nowhere else, say I sell X today. I'd like to sell X times 1.2 by next year. Okay, great. Can I learn from the last five years of sales, millions of units or million or whatever it is, how to do that better and the answer is for sure yes and yes there's problems with the data and there's holes in the data as Kieran said and there's missing data. It doesn't matter, there's a lot of data around sales. So you can just start there and probably drive some top line growth, just doing what you're already doing but doing it better and learning how to do it better. >> Learning how to do it better. Isaac, talk to us about what your thoughts are here with respect to this challenge. >> Well, when you look at that percentage 70% struggling with business metrics, you know what I see is some companies struggling when they have too few metrics and you know, their KPIs, it really doesn't translate well to people doing work for a customer for an application, responding to an issue. So when you have too few in there too disconnected from the work, people don't understand how to use them and then on the flip side I see other organizations trying to create metrics around every single part of the operation, you know, dozens of different ways of measuring user experience and so forth. And that doesn't work because now we don't know what to prioritize. So I think the art of this is management coming back and saying, what are the metrics? Do we want to see impact and changes over in a short amount of time, over the next quarter, over the next six months and to pick a couple in each category, certainly starting with the customer, certainly looking at sales but then also looking at operations and looking at quality and looking at risk and say to the organization, these are the two or three we're going to focus on in the next six months and then I think that's what simplifies it for organizations. >> Thanks, Isaac. So something that I found interesting, it's not surprising in that the survey found that too much data is one of the biggest challenges that organizations have followed by the limitations that we just talked about in terms of identifying what are the ideal business metrics, but a whopping 74% of survey respondents said we failed to have key data available in real time, which is a big inhibitor for data-driven decision-making. Can you guys offer some advice to organizations? How can they harness this data and glean insights from it faster, Kieran, take it away. >> Yeah, I think there are probably five steps to establishing business KPIs and Lisa your first two questions and these gentleman's answers laid out the first two that is define the questions that you want answers for and then identify what those data inputs would be. You know, if you've got a formula in mind, what data inputs do do you need? The remaining three steps. One is, you know, to evaluate the data you've got and then identify what's missing, you know what do you need to then fetch? And then that fetching, you need to think about the measurement method, the frequency I think Isaac mentioned, you know this concept of tools for all. We have too many tools to collect data. So, the measurement method and frequency is important standardizing on tools and automating that collection wherever possible. And then the last step, this is really the people component of the formula. You need to identify stakeholders that will own those business KPIs and even communicate them within the organization. That human element is sometimes forgotten and it's really important. >> It is important, it's one of the challenges as well. Kevin, talk to us about your thoughts here. >> Yeah, again I mean, for sure you've got in the end you've got the human element. You can give people all kinds of KPIs as Isaac said, often it's too many. You have now KPI the business to death and nobody can get out and do anything that doesn't work. Obviously you can't improve things until you measure them. So you have to measure, we get that. But this question of live data is interesting. My personal view is only certain kinds of data are interesting, absolutely live in the moment. So I think people get in their mind, oh, well if I could deploy IOT everywhere and get instantaneous access within one second to the amalgam of that data, I'm making up words too. That would be interesting. Are you sure that'd be interesting? I might rather analyze the last week of real, real data, really deep analysis, right? Build you know, a real model around that and say, okay for the next week, you ought to do the following. Now I get that if you're in the high-frequency stock trading business you know, every millisecond counts, okay? But most of our businesses do not run by the millisecond and we're not going to make a business decision especially humans involved in a millisecond anyway. We make business decisions based on a fair bit of data, days and weeks. So this is just my own personal opinion. I think people get hung up on this. I've got to have all this live data. No, you want great data analysis using AI and machine learning to evaluate as much data as you can get over whatever period of time that is a week, a month a year and start making some rational decisions off of that information. I think that is how you run a business that's going to crush your competition. >> Good advice, Isaac what are your thoughts on these comments? >> Yeah, I'm going to pair off of Kevin's comments. You know, how do you chip away at this problem at getting more real time data? And I'll share two insights first, from the top down, you know, when StarCIO works with a group of CEO and their executive group, you know how are they getting their data? Well, they're getting it in a boardroom with PowerPoints with spreadsheets behind those PowerPoints, with analysts doing a lot of number crunching and behind all that are all the systems of record around the CRM and the ERP and all the other systems that are telling them how they're performing. And I suggest to them for a month, leave the world of PowerPoint and Excel and bring your analysts in to show you the data live in the systems, ask questions and see what it's like to work with real time data. That first changes the perspective in terms of all the manual work that goes into homogenizing that data for them. But then they start getting used to looking at the tools where the data is actually living. So that's an exercise from the top down from the bottom up when we talk to the it groups, you know so much of our data technologies were built at a time when batch processing in our data centers was the only way to go. We ran these things overnight to move data from point a to point B and with the Cloud, with data streaming technologies it's really a new game in town. And so it's really time for many organizations to modernize and thinking about how they're streaming data. Doesn't necessarily have to be real time. It's not really IOT but it's really saying, I need to have my data updated on a regular basis with an SLA against it so that my teams and my businesses can make good decisions around things. >> So let's talk now about digital transformation. We've been talking about that for years. We talked a lot about in 2020, the acceleration of digital transformation for obvious reasons. But when organizations are facing this data conundrum that we talked about, this sort of data disconnect too much can't get what we need right away. Do we need it right away? How did they flip the script on that so that it doesn't become an impediment to digital transformation but it becomes an accelerant. Kieran >> You know, a lot of times you'll hear vendors talk about technology as being the answer, right? So MI, ML, my math is better than your math, et cetera. And technology is important but it's only effective to the point that which people can actually interpret understand and use the data. And so I would put forth this notion of having data at all levels throughout an organization too often. What you'll see is that I think Isaac mentioned it, you know the data is delivered to the C-suite via PowerPoint and it's been sanitized and scrubbed, et cetera. But heck, by the time it gets to the C-suite it's three weeks old. Data at all levels is making sure that throughout organization, the right people have real-time access to data and can make actionable decisions based upon that. So I think that's a real vital ingredient to successful digital transformation. >> Kevin. >> Well, I like to think of digital transformation as looking at all of your relatively manual or paper-based or other processes whatever they are throughout the organization and saying is this something that can now be done for lack of a better word by a machine, right? And that machine could be algorithms. It could be computers, it could be humans it could be Cloud, it could be AI it could be IOT doesn't really matter. (clears throat) And so there's a reason to do that and of course, the basis of that is the data. You've got to collect data to say, this is how we've been performing. This is what we've been doing. So an example, a simple example of digitalization is people doing RPA around customer support. Now you collect a lot of data on how customer support has been supporting customers. You break that into tiers and you say, here's the easiest, lowest tier. I had farmed that out to probably some other country 20 years ago or 10 years ago. Can I even with the systems in place, can I automate that with a set of processes, Robotic Process Automation that digitizes that process now, Now there still might be, you know 20 different screens that click on all different kinds of things, whatever it is, but can I do that? Can I do it with some Chatbots? Can I do it with it? No, I'm not going to do all the customer support that way but I could probably do a fair bit. Can I digitize that process? Can I digitize the process? Great example we all know is insurance companies taking claims. Okay, I have a phone. Can, I take a picture of my car that just got smashed send it in, let AI analyze it and frankly, do an ACH transfer within the hour, because if it costs them insurance company on average 300 to $500 depending on who they are to process a claim, it's cheaper to just send me the $500 then even question it. And if I did it two or three times, well then I'm trying to steal their money and I should go to jail, right? So these are just, I'm giving these as examples 'cause they're examples that everyone who is watching this would go, oh I understand you're digitizing a process. So now when we get to much more complex processes that we're digitizing in data or hiring or whatever, those are a little harder to understand but I just tried to give those as like everyone understands yes, you should digitize those. Those are obvious, right? >> Now those are great examples, you're right. They're relatable across the board here. Isaac, talk to me about what your thoughts are about. Okay, let's do the conundrum. How do we flip the script and leverage data, access to it insights to drive and facilitate digital transformation rather than impede it. >> Well remember, you know, digital transformation is really about changing the business model, changing how you're working with customers and what markets you're going after. You're being forced to do that because of the pace digital technologies are enabling competitors to outpace you. And so we really like starting digital transformations with a vision. What does this business need to do better, differently more of what markets are we going to go after? What types of technologies are important? And we're going to create that vision but we know long-term planning, doesn't work. We know multi-year planning, doesn't work. So we're going to send our teams out on an agile journey over the next sprint, over the next quarter and we're going to use data to give us information about whether we're heading in the right direction. Should we do more of something? Is this feature higher priority? Is there a certain customer segment that we need to pay attention to more? Is there a set of defects happening in our technology that we have to address? Is there a new competitor stealing market share all that kind of data is what the organization needs to be looking at on a very regular basis to say, do we need to pivot, what we're doing? Do we need to accelerate something? Are we heading in the right direction? Should we give ourselves high fives and celebrate a quick win? Because we've accomplished something 'cause so much of transformation is what we're doing today. We're going to change what we're doing over the next three years, and then guess what? There's going to be a new set of technologies. There's going to be another disruption that we can't anticipate and we want our teams sitting on their toes waiting to look at data and saying, what should we do next? >> That's a great segue Isaac into our last question, which is around culture that's always one of those elephants in the room, right? Because so much cultural transformation is necessary but it's incredibly difficult. So question for you guys, Kieran we'll start with you is, should you advise leadership, should really create a culture, a company-wide culture around data? What do you think? >> Absolutely. I mean, this reminds me of DevOps in many ways and you know, the data has to be shared at all levels and has to empower people to make decisions at their respective levels so that we're not, you know kind of siloed in our knowledge or our decision-making, it's through that collective intelligence that I think organizations can move forward more quickly but they do have to change the culture and they've got to have everyone in the room. Everyone's got a stake in driving business success from the C-suite down to the individual contributor >> Right, Kevin, your thoughts >> You know what? Kieran's right. Data silos, one of the biggest brick walls in all of our way, all the time, you know SecOps says there is no way I'm going to share that database because it's got PII. Okay, well, how about if we strip the PII? Well, then that won't be good for something else and you're getting these huge arguments and if you're not driving it from the top, certainly the CIO, maybe the CFO, maybe the CEO I would argue the CEO, drives it from the top. 'Cause the CEO drives company culture and you know, we talk BizOps and the first word of that is Biz. It's the business, right? It's Ops being driven by business goals and the CEO has to set the business goals. It's not really up to the CIO to set business goals. They're setting operational goals, it's up to the CEO. So when the CEO comes out and says our business goals are to drive up sales by this drive down cost by this drive up speed of product development, whatever it is and we're going to digitize all of our processes to do that. We're going to set in KPIs. We're going to measure everything that we do and everybody's going to work around this table. By the way just like we did with DevOps a decade ago, right? And said, Dev, you actually have to work with Ops now and they go, those dangerous guys way over in that other building, we don't even know who they are but in time people realize that we're all on the same team and that if developers develop something that operations can't host and support and keep alive, it's junk right? And we used to do that and now we're much better at it. And whether it's Dev, SecOps or Dev two-way Ops, whatever all those teams working together. Now we're going to spread that out and make it a bigger pyre on the company and it starts with the CEO. And when the CEO makes it a directive for the company I think we're all going to be successful. >> Isaac, what are your thoughts? >> I think we're really talking about a culture of transformation and a culture of collaboration. I mean, again, everything that we're doing now we're going to build, we're going to learn. We're going to use data to pivot what we're doing. We're going to release a product to customers. We're going to get feedback. We're going to continue to iterate over those things. Same thing when it comes to sales, same things that you know, the experiments that we do for marketing, what we're doing today, we're constantly learning. We're constantly challenging our assumptions. We're trying to throw out the sacred cows with status quo, 'cause we know there's going to be another Island that we have to go after and that's the transformation part. The collaboration part is really you know, what you're hearing. Multiple teams, not just Dev and Ops and not just data and Dev, but really the spectrum of business of product, of stakeholders, of marketing and sales, working with technologists and saying, look this is the things that we need to go after over these time periods and work collaboratively and iteratively around them. And again, the data is the foundation for this, right? And we talk about a learning culture as part of that, the data is a big part of that learning, learning new skills and what new skills to learn is as part of that. But when I think about culture, you know the things that slow down organizations is when they're not transforming fast enough, or they're going in five or six different directions, they're not collaborative enough and the data is the element in there that is an equalizer. It's what you show everybody to say, look what we're doing today is not going to make us survive over the next three years. >> The data equalizer, that sounds like it could be movie coming out in 2021. (laughing) Gentlemen, thank you for walking us through some of those interesting metrics coming out of the BizOps Inaugural Survey. Yes, there are challenges with data. Many of them aren't surprising but there's also a lot of tremendous opportunity and I liked how you kind of brought it around to from a cultural perspective. It's got to start from that C-suite to Kieran's point all the way down. I know we could keep talking, we're out of time, but we'll have to keep following, this as a very interesting topic. One that is certainly pervasive across industries. Thanks guys for sharing your insights. >> Than you. >> Thank you, Lisa. >> Thank you, Lisa. >> For Kieran Taylor, Kevin Surace and Isaac Sacolick. I'm Lisa Martin. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, everyone. I should thank Entity Research and the Oshie for putting together this program and also the opportunity to speak here. My name is Al Gore ism or Andy and I'm from Caltech. And today I'm going to tell you about the work that we have been doing on networks off optical parametric oscillators and how we have been using them for icing machines and how we're pushing them toward Cornum. Photonics should acknowledge my team at Caltech, which is now eight graduate students and five researcher and postdocs as well as collaborators from all over the world, including entity research and also the funding from different places, including entity. So this talk is primarily about networks of resonate er's and these networks are everywhere from nature. For instance, the brain, which is a network of oscillators all the way to optics and photonics and some of the biggest examples or meta materials, which is an array of small resonate er's. And we're recently the field of technological photonics, which is trying thio implement a lot of the technological behaviors of models in the condensed matter, physics in photonics. And if you want to extend it even further. Some of the implementations off quantum computing are technically networks of quantum oscillators. So we started thinking about these things in the context of icing machines, which is based on the icing problem, which is based on the icing model, which is the simple summation over the spins and spins can be their upward down, and the couplings is given by the G I J. And the icing problem is, if you know J I J. What is the spin configuration that gives you the ground state? And this problem is shown to be an MP high problem. So it's computational e important because it's a representative of the MP problems on NPR. Problems are important because first, their heart in standard computers, if you use a brute force algorithm and they're everywhere on the application side. That's why there is this demand for making a machine that can target these problems and hopefully it can provide some meaningful computational benefit compared to the standard digital computers. So I've been building these icing machines based on this building block, which is a degenerate optical parametric oscillator on what it is is resonator with non linearity in it and we pump these resonate er's and we generate the signal at half the frequency of the pump. One vote on a pump splits into two identical photons of signal, and they have some very interesting phase of frequency locking behaviors. And if you look at the phase locking behavior, you realize that you can actually have two possible face states as the escalation result of these Opio, which are off by pie, and that's one of the important characteristics of them. So I want to emphasize >>a little more on that, and I have this mechanical analogy which are basically two simple pendulum. But there are parametric oscillators because I'm going to modulate the parameter of them in this video, which is the length of the strength on by that modulation, which is that will make a pump. I'm gonna make a muscular. That'll make a signal, which is half the frequency of the pump. >>And I have two of them to show you that they can acquire these face states so they're still face their frequency lock to the pump. But it can also lead in either the zero pie face state on. The idea is to use this binary phase to represent the binary icing spin. So each Opio is going to represent spin, which can be >>either is your pie or up or down, >>and to implement the network of these resonate er's. We use the time off blood scheme, and the idea is that we put impulses in the cavity, these pulses air separated by the repetition period that you put in or t R. And you can think about these pulses in one resonator, xaz and temporarily separated synthetic resonate Er's If you want a couple of these resonator is to each other, and now you can introduce these delays, each of which is a multiple of TR. If you look at the shortest delay it couples resonator wanted to 2 to 3 and so on. If you look at the second delay, which is two times a rotation period, the couple's 123 and so on. If you have any minus one delay lines, then you can have any potential couplings among these synthetic resonate er's. And if I can introduce these modulators in those delay lines so that I can strength, I can control the strength and the phase of these couplings at the right time. Then I can >>have a program. We'll all toe all connected network in this time off like scheme. >>And the whole physical size of the system scales linearly with the number of pulses. So the idea of opium based icing machine is didn't having these o pos. Each of them can be either zero pie, and I can arbitrarily connect them to each other. And then I start with programming this machine to a given icing problem by just setting the couplings and setting the controllers in each of those delight lines. So now I have a network which represents an icing problem thin the icing problem maps to finding the face state that satisfy maximum number of coupling constraints. And the way it happens is that the icing Hamiltonian maps to the linear loss of the network. And if I start adding gain by just putting pump into the network, then the OPI ohs are expected to oscillating the lowest, lowest lost state. And, uh and we have been doing these in the past, uh, six or seven years and I'm just going to quickly show you the transition, especially what happened in the first implementation which was using a free space optical system and then the guided wave implementation in 2016 and the measurement feedback idea which led to increasing the size and doing actual computation with these machines. So I just want to make this distinction here that, um the first implementation was on our optical interaction. We also had an unequal 16 implementation and then we transition to this measurement feedback idea, which I'll tell you quickly what it iss on. There's still a lot of ongoing work, especially on the entity side, to make larger machines using the measurement feedback. But I'm gonna mostly focused on the all optical networks and how we're using all optical networks to go beyond simulation of icing. Hamiltonian is both in the linear and >>nonlinear side and also how we're working on miniaturization of these Opio networks. So >>the first experiment, which was the four Opium machine it was a free space implementation and this is the actual picture of the machine and we implemented a small and it calls for Mexico problem on the machine. So one problem for one experiment and we ran the machine 1000 times, we looked at the state and we always saw it oscillate in one of these, um, ground states of the icing laboratoria. Yeah, so then the measurement feedback idea was to replace those couplings and the controller with the simulator. So we basically simulated all those coherent interactions on on FB g A. And we replicated the coherent pulse with respect to all those measurements. And then we injected it back into the cavity and on the near to you still remain. So it still is a non. They're dynamical system, but the linear side is all simulated. So there are lots of questions about if this system is preserving important information or not, or if it's gonna behave better Computational wars. And that's still ah, lot of ongoing studies. But nevertheless, the reason that this implementation was very interesting is that you don't need the end minus one delight lines so you can just use one, and you can implement a large machine, and then you can run several thousands of problems in the machine, and then you can compare the performance from the computational perspective. Looks so I'm gonna split this idea of opium based icing machine into two parts One is the linear part, which is if you take out the non linearity out of the resonator and just think about the connections. You can think about this as a simple matrix multiplication scheme, and that's basically >>what gives you the icing Hamiltonian model A. So the optical loss of this network corresponds to the icing Hamiltonian. >>And if I just want to show you the example of the n equals for experiment on all those face states and the history Graham that we saw, you can actually calculate the laws of each of those states because all those interferences in the beam splitters and the delay lines are going to give you a different losses. And then you will see that ground states corresponds to the lowest laws of the actual optical network. If you add the non linearity, the simple way of thinking about what the non linearity does is that it provides to gain, and then you start bringing up the gain so that it hits the loss. Then you go through the game saturation or the threshold which is going to give you this phase bifurcation. >>So you go either to zero the pie face state, and the expectation is that this the network oscillates in the lowest possible state, the lowest possible loss state. >>There are some challenges associated with this intensity Durban face transition, which I'm going to briefly talk about. I'm also going to tell you about other types of non their dynamics that we're looking at on the non air side of these networks. So if you just think about the linear network, we're actually interested in looking at some technological behaviors in these networks. And the difference between looking at the technological behaviors and the icing uh, machine is that now, First of all, we're looking at the type of Hamilton Ian's that are a little different than the icing Hamilton. And one of the biggest difference is is that most of these technological Hamilton Ian's that require breaking the time reversal symmetry, meaning that you go from one spin to on the one side to another side and you get one phase. And if you go back where you get a different phase, and the other thing is that we're not just interested in finding the ground state, we're actually now interesting and looking at all sorts of States and looking at the dynamics and the behaviors of all these states in the network. So we started with the simplest implementation, of course, which is a one d chain of thes resonate er's which corresponds to a so called ssh model. In the technological work, we get the similar energy to los mapping. And now we can actually look at the band structure on. This is an actual measurement >>that we get with this associate model and you see how it reasonably how how? Well, it actually follows the prediction and the theory. >>One of the interesting things about the time multiplexing implementation is that now you have the flexibility of changing the network as we were running the machine. And that's something unique about this time multiplex implementation so that we can actually look at the dynamics. And one example >>that we have looked at is we can actually go to the transition off going from top a logical to the to the standard nontrivial. I'm sorry to the trivial behavior of the network. >>You can then look at the edge states and you can also see the trivial and states and the technological at states actually showing up in this network. We have just recently implement on a two D, >>uh, network with Harper Hofstadter model when you don't have the results here. But we're one of the other important characteristic of time multiplexing is that you can go to higher and higher dimensions and keeping that flexibility and dynamics. And we can also think about adding non linearity both in a classical and quantum regimes, which is going to give us a lot of exotic oh, classical and quantum, non innate behaviors in these networks. >>So I told you about the linear side. Mostly let me just switch gears and talk about the nonlinear side of the network. And the biggest thing that I talked about so far in the icing machine is this phase transition, that threshold. So the low threshold we have squeezed state in these Oh, pios, if you increase the pump, we go through this intensity driven phase transition and then we got the face stays above threshold. And this is basically the mechanism off the computation in these O pos, which is through this phase transition below to above threshold. So one of the characteristics of this phase transition is that below threshold, you expect to see quantum states above threshold. You expect to see more classical states or coherent states, and that's basically corresponding to the intensity off the driving pump. So it's really hard to imagine that it can go above threshold. Or you can have this friends transition happen in the all in the quantum regime. And there are also some challenges associated with the intensity homogeneity off the network. Which, for example, is if one Opio starts oscillating and then its intensity goes really high. Then it's going to ruin this collective decision making off the network because of the intensity driven face transition nature. So So the question is, can we look at other phase transitions? Can we utilize them for both computing? And also, can we bring them to the quantum regime on? I'm going to specifically talk about the face transition in the spectral domain, which is the transition from the so called degenerate regime, which is what I mostly talked about to the non degenerate regime, which happens by just tuning the phase of the cavity. And what is interesting is that this phase transition corresponds to a distinct phase noise, behavior So in the degenerate regime, which we call it the order state. You're gonna have the phase being locked to the phase of the pump as I talked about in the non the general regime. However, the phase is the phase is mostly dominated by the quantum diffusion off the off the phase, which is limited by the so called shallow towns limit and you can see that transition from the general to non degenerate, which also has distinct symmetry differences. And this transition corresponds to a symmetry breaking in the non degenerate case. The signal can acquire any of those phases on the circle, so it has a you one symmetry. And if you go to the degenerate case, then that symmetry is broken and you only have zero pie face days I will look at So now the question is can utilize this phase transition, which is a face driven phase transition and can we use it for similar computational scheme? So that's one of the questions that were also thinking about. And it's not just this face transition is not just important for computing. It's also interesting from the sensing potentials and this face transition. You can easily bring it below threshold and just operated in the quantum regime. Either Gaussian or non Gaussian. If you make a network of Opio is now, we can see all sorts of more complicated and more interesting phase transitions in the spectral domain. One of them is the first order phase transition, which you get by just coupling to oppose. And that's a very abrupt face transition and compared to the to the single Opio face transition. And if you do the couplings right, you can actually get a lot of non her mission dynamics and exceptional points, which are actually very interesting to explore both in the classical and quantum regime. And I should also mention that you can think about the cup links to be also nonlinear couplings. And that's another behavior that you can see, especially in the nonlinear in the non degenerate regime. So with that, I basically told you about these Opio networks, how we can think about the linear scheme and the linear behaviors and how we can think about the rich, nonlinear dynamics and non linear behaviors both in the classical and quantum regime. I want to switch gear and tell you a little bit about the miniaturization of these Opio networks. And of course, the motivation is if you look at the electron ICS and >>what we had 60 or 70 years ago with vacuum tube and how we transition from relatively small scale computers in the order of thousands of nonlinear elements to billions of non linear elements, where we are now with the optics is probably very similar to seven years ago, which is a tabletop implementation. >>And the question is, how can we utilize nano photonics? I'm gonna just briefly show you the two directions on that which we're working on. One is based on lithium Diabate, and the other is based on even a smaller resonate er's Did you? So the work on Nana Photonic lithium naive. It was started in collaboration with Harvard Marko Loncar and also might affair at Stanford. And, uh, we could show that you can do the >>periodic polling in the phenomenon of it and get all sorts of very highly non in your process is happening in this net. Photonic periodically polls if, um Diabate >>and now we're working on building. Opio was based on that kind of photonic lithium Diabate and these air some some examples of the devices that we have been building in the past few months, which I'm not gonna tell you more about. But the OPI ohs and the Opio networks are in the works, and that's not the only way of making large networks. But also I want to point out that the reason that these Nana photonic goblins are actually exciting is not just because you can make a large networks and it can make him compact in a in a small footprint, they also provide some opportunities in terms of the operation regime. On one of them is about making cat states in o pos, which is can we have the quantum superposition of >>the zero pie states that I talked about >>and the nano photonics within? I would provide some opportunities to actually get >>closer to that regime because of the spatial temporal confinement that you can get in these wave guides. So we're doing some theory on that. We're confident that the type of non linearity two losses that it can get with these platforms are actually much higher than what you can get with other platform, other existing platforms and to >>go even smaller. We have been asking the question off. What is the smallest possible Opio that you can make? Then you can think about really wavelength scale type resonate er's and adding the chi to non linearity and see how and when you can get the Opio to operate. And recently, in collaboration with us. See, we have been actually USC and Creole. We have demonstrated that you can use nano lasers and get some spin Hamiltonian implementations on those networks. So if you can't build a pos, we know that there is a path for implementing Opio Networks on on such a nano scale. So we have looked at these calculations and we try to >>estimate the threshold of a pos. Let's say for me resonator and it turns out that it can actually be even lower than the type of bulk Pippen O pos that we have been building in the past 50 years or so. >>So we're working on the experiments and we're hoping that we can actually make even larger and larger scale Opio networks. So let me summarize the talk I told you about the opium networks and >>our work that has been going on on icing machines and the >>measurement feedback on I told you about the ongoing work on the all optical implementations both on the linear side and also on the nonlinear behaviors. And I also told you >>a little bit about the efforts on miniaturization and going to the to the nano scale. So with that, I would like Thio stop here and thank you for your attention.

(upbeat music) >> From around the globe, it's theCUBE. With digital coverage of VeeamON 2020. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Hi everybody, we're back. This is Dave Vellante, and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of VeeamON 2020. Veeam Online 2020. And Danny Allen is here, he's the CTO and Senior Vice President of Product Strategy and he's joined by Anton Gostev, who's the Senior Vice President of Product Management. Gentlemen, good to see you again. Wish we were face-to-face, but thanks for coming on, virtually. >> Thanks Dave for having us. >> Always love being on with you. Thank you. >> So Danny, I want to start with you. In your keynote, you talked to, about great quote by Satya Nadella. He said "We basically compress two years of digital transformation in two months." And so, I'm interested in what that meant for Veeam but also specifically, for your customers and how you help. >> Yeah, I think about that in two different ways. So digital transformation is obviously the word that he used. But I think of this a lot about being remote. So in two months, every organization that we're ourselves included, has gone from, in person operations going into the office doing things to enabling remote operations. And so, I'm working from home today, Anton's working from home today. We're all working from home today. And so remote operations is a big part of that. And it's not just working from home, it's how do I actually conduct my operations, my backup, my archiving, my hearing, all of those things remotely. It's actually changed the way organizations think about their data management. Not just operations from the sense of internal processes, but also external processes as well. But I think about this as remote offering. So organizations say, "How can I take where we are today "in the world and turn this into competitive advantage? "How can I take the services that I offered today, "and help my customers be more successful remotely?" And so, it has those two aspects to it remote operations, remote offerings. And of course, all driven by data which we backed. >> So Anton, you know there's a saying "It's better to be lucky than good." And I say, "It's best to be lucky and good." So Danny was talking about some of the external processes, a lot of those processes were unknown. And people kind of making them up as they went along, with things that we've never seen before. So, I wonder if we could talk about your product suite, and how well you were able to adapt to some of these unknown. >> Well it's more customers using our product in creative ways. But, one feedback we got most recently in our annual user survey is that like, one of the customers was using tape as the off-site backups. And they had a process where obviously someone had to physically come to the office, pick up the exporter tapes and put them on the truck and move them some off-site location. And so this basically, the process was completely broken with COVID because of lockdown. And in that particular country, it was a stricter on the ground than in most and they were physically unable to basically leave the home. So they basically looked at, Luckily they upgraded already to version 10. And they looked at what version 10 has to offer. And then we're able to switch from using tape to fully automating this off-site backup and going directly to the public cloud to object storage. So, they still have the same off-site backups that, effectively air-gapped because of the first house you provide in virtual time for mutable backups. As soon as they created that they automatically ship to object storage, completely replacing this manual off-site process. So I don't know how long it will take them, if not COVID, to move to this process. Now they love it because it's so much better than what they did before. That's amazing. >> Yeah I bet, there's no doubt. That's interesting, that's an interesting use case. Do you see, others use cases that popped up. Again, I was saying that these processes were new. I mean, and I'm interested in from a product standpoint, how you guys were able to adapt to that. >> Well, another use case that seems to be on the rise is that the ability for customers to deploy the new machines to procure new hardware is severely limited now. Not only their supply chain issues, but also again, bring something into your data center. You have to physically be there and collaborate with other workers and doing installing the, whatever new hardware you purchase. So, we see a significant pick up of the functionality where that, we had in the product for a while, which we called direct resorts to cloud. So we support taking any backup, physical virtual machine. And restoring directory into cloud machine. So we see really the big uptick of migration, maybe a lot of migrations, maybe, not necessarily permanent migrations, but when people want to basically this, some of the applications start to struggle on their sources and they're unable to update the underlying hardware. So what they do is that they schedule the downtime, and then migrate, restore that latest backup into the cloud and continue using the machine in the cloud on much more powerful hardware. That's a lifesaver for them obviously in this situation. >> Yeah so the cloud, Danny is becoming a linchpin of these new models. In your keynote you talked about your vision. And it's interesting to note, I mean, VeeamON, last year, you actually talked about, what I call getting back to the basic of, backup, you kind of embrace backup, where a lot of the new entrants are like, "No no backup's, just one small part, it's data management." And, so I'd love to get your thoughts on that. But the vision you laid out was, backup and cloud data management. Maybe you could, unpack that a little bit. >> Yeah, the way I think about this is step one, in every infrastructure, it doesn't matter whether you're talking about on-prem or in the cloud. Step one is, to protect your data. So this is ingesting the data, whether be backup, whether it be replication, whether it be, long term retention. We have to do that, not only do we have to do that, but as you go to new cycles of infrastructure, it happens all over again. So, we backed up physical first and then virtual, and then we did, cloud and in some ways, containers we're going towards, we're not going backwards but people who are running containers on-prem so we always go back to the starting point of protect the data. And then of course, after you protect it then you, want to effectively begin to manage it. And that's exactly what Anton said. How do you automate the operational procedures to be able to make this part of the DNA of the organization and so, it doesn't matter whether it's on-prem or whether it's in the cloud, that protection of data and then the effective management and integration with existing processes, is fundamental for every infrastructure and will continue to be so into the future, including the cloud. And it's only then when you have this effective protection and management of it, can you begin to unleash the power of data, as you look out into the future, because you can reuse the data for additional purposes, you can move it to the optimal location, but we always start with protection and management of the data. >> So Anton, I want to come back to you on this notion of cloud being a portion of that, when you talk about security people say you layer, how should we think about the cloud? Is it a another layer of protection? And then Danny just said, "It doesn't really matter whether it's on-prem "or in the cloud, it well, it doesn't matter "if you can ensure the same experience." If it's a totally different experience well then it's problematic though. I wonder if you could address, both the layers. Is cloud just another layer and is the management of that, actually, how do you make it, quote, unquote, "Seamless"? I know it's an overused word, but from a product name? >> Well, for larger customers, it's not necessarily a new challenge, because it's rare when the customer had a single data center. And they had this challenge for always. How do I manage my multiple data centers with a single pane of glass? And, I will say public cloud does not necessarily mean that some new perspective in that sense. Yeah, maybe it even makes it easier because you no longer have to manage the physical aspect, the most important aspect of security, which is physical security. So someone else manages it for you and probably much better than most companies could ever afford. In terms of security answer, so then data center. But as far as networking security and how those multiple data centers interact with each other, that's essentially not a new challenge. It is a new challenge for smaller customers for SMBs that are just starting. So they have their own small data center, small world and now they are starting to move some workloads into the cloud. And I would say the biggest problem there is networking and VeeamON, sure provides some free tools to call Veeam PN to make it easier for them to make this step of, securing the networking aspect of public cloud and the private property also that they are in now as workloads move to the cloud, but also keeping some workloads on-prem. >> The other piece of cloud Danny, is SaaS. You weren't the first you were one of the first to offer SaaS back up particularly for Office 365. And a lot of people just, I think, rely on the SaaS vendor, "Hey, they've got me covered. "They've got me backed up", and maybe they do have them backed up, but they might not have them recovered. How is that market shaping up? What are the trends that you're seeing there? >> Well, you're absolutely right Dave. That the, focus here is not just on back up, but on recovery, and it's one of the things that Veeam is known for we don't just do the backup, but we have an Explorer for Exchange , an Explorer for SharePoint, an Explorer for OneDrive. You saw on stage today we demoed the Explorer for Microsoft Teams. So, it's not just about protecting the data, but getting back the specific element of data that you need for operations. And that is critically important. And our customers expect to need that. If you're depending on the SaaS vendor themselves to do that, and I won't, be derogatory or specific about any SaaS vendor, but what they'll often do is, take the entire data set from seven days ago, we'll say, and merge it back into the current data set. And that just results in, a complete chaos of your inbox, if that's what they're merging together. So having specific granularity to pull back that data, exactly the data you need when you need it, is critical. And that's why we're adding it, and the focus on Microsoft Teams now obviously, is because, as we have more intellectual property, in collaboration tools for remote operations, exactly what we're doing now, that only becomes more critical for the business. So, when you think about SaaS for backup, but we also think about it for recovery. And one thing that I'll credit Anton and the product management team for, we build all of this in-house, We don't give this to a third party to build it on our behalf because you need it to work and not only need it to work, but need it to work well, that completely integrated with the underlying cloud data management platform. >> So Anton, I wonder if I could ask you about that. So, from a recovery standpoint, there's one thing, is Dan was saying, you've got to have the granularity, you've got to be able to have a really relatively simple way to recover. But because it's the cloud, there's, latency involved and how are you from a product standpoint, dealing with, making that recovery as consistent and predictable and reliable as you have for a decade on-prem. >> So you mean recovery in the cloud or back to on-prem? >> Yeah, so, recovery from data that lives in the cloud. >> Okay. So basically, the most important feature of any cloud is the price of whatever you do. So, whenever we design anything, we always look at the costs even more than anything else. But, it in turn always translates into better performance as well. To give you example, without functionality where we can take the on-prem backup and make a copy in the public object storage for disaster recovery purposes, so that for example, when a hacker or ransomware wipes out your, entire data center, you have those backups in the cloud, and you can restore from them. So when you perform the restore from cloud backups, we are actually smart enough to understand that, we need to pull that and this in that block from the cloud backup, but many of those blocks actually shared with backups in another machines that are in your own prem backup repository. So we do this on the fly analysis, and we say, instead of pulling the 10 terabyte of the entire backup from the cloud, we can actually pull only 100 gigabytes off unique blocks. And the rest of the blocks we can take from on-prem repositories that have still survived the disaster. So, not only reduces the cost 20 times or whatever. The performance, obviously, of restoring from on-prem data versus pulling everything from the cloud through the internet links is dramatic. So again, we started from the cost, how do we reduce the cost of restore, because, that's where cloud vendors quote, unquote, "Get you." But in the end, it resulted in much better performance as well. >> Excellent, Anton as well in your keynote, you talked about the Veeam availability suite, gave a little sneak preview. You talked about continuous data protection. Cloud Tier, NAS recovery, which is oftentimes very challenging. What should we take away from that sneak peek? >> Three main directions basically, The first is Veeam CGP is we keep investing a lot in on-prem, data Protection, disaster recovery. VMware is a clear leader of on-prem virtualization. So, we keep building these, new ways to protect your web VMware with lower RPOs and RTOs that were never possible before with the classic snapshotting technologies. So that's one thing we keep investing on-prem. Second thing, we do major investments in the cloud in object storage specifically, from that regards, again, put a couple keynote in Google Cloud support. And we're adding the ability to work with coldest tier of object storage, which is Amazon Glacier Deep Archive or Microsoft Azure Blob Storage, archive tier. So that's the second big area of investment. And third, instant recovery Veaam has always been extremely well known for its instant recovery capabilities. And this race is going to be the biggest in terms of new instant recovery capabilities, that were introduced as many as three new major companies with capabilities there. (mumbles) >> So, Danny, I wonder if I could ask you. I'm interested in how you go from product strategy to actual product management and bring things to market. I mean, in the early days, Veeam. Very, very specific to virtualization. That of course, with the Bare-metal, you got a number of permutations and product capabilities. How do you guys work together in terms of assessing the market potential, the degree of difficulty, prioritizing, how does that all come to your customer value? >> Well, first of all, Anton and I, spend a lot of time together on the phone and collaborating just on a weekly basis about where we're going, what we're going to do. I always say there's four directions that we look at for the product strategy and what we're building. You look behind you, you have a, we have 375,000 customers and so those are the tail winds that are pushing you forward. We talked to them on all segments. What is it that you want? I say we look left and right, the left who are alliances. We have a rich ecosystem of partners and channel that we look to collect feedback from. Look right, we look out at the competitors in this space, what are they doing to make sure that we're not missing anything that we should be including and then look forward. Big focus of Veeam has always been not just creating check boxes and making sure that we have the required features but innovation. And you saw that on stage today when Anton was showing the NAS Instant Recovery in the database instant recovery and the capabilities that we have, we have a big focus on, not just checking a box but actually doing things better and differently than everyone else in the industry and that serve to see incredibly well. >> So I love that framework. But so now when you think about this pandemic, you look behind your customers have obviously been affected, your partners have been affected. Let's put your competitors to the side for a minute, we'll see how they respond. But then looking forward, future, as I've said many times, we're not just going back to 2019. We're new decade and really digital transformation is becoming real, for real this time around. So as you think about the pandemic and looking at those four dimensions, what initial conclusions are you drawing? >> Well, the first one would be that that Veeam is well positioned to win, continue to win and to win into the future. And the reason for that I would argue, is that we're software defined. Our whole model is based on being simple to use obviously, but software defined and because of the pandemic, as Anton said, can't go into the office anymore to switch your tapes from one system to another. And so being software defined set this apart positions as well for the future. And so make it simple, make it flexible. And ultimately, what our customers care about is the reliability of this end to the credit of research and development and Anton theme is, "We have product that as everyone says, it just worked". >> So Anton I wonder if I could ask you kind of a similar question. How has the pandemic affected your thinking along those dimensions and maybe some of your initial thinking on changes that you'll implement? >> Yes, sorry I wanted to add exactly on that. I will say that pandemic accelerated our vision becoming the reality. Basically, the vision we had and, I said a few years ago, one day that Veeam will become the biggest storage vendor without selling a single storage box. And this is just becoming the reality. We support a number of object storage providers today. Only a few of them actually track the consumption that is generated by different vendors. And just for those few who do track that and report numbers to us. We are already managing over hundreds of petabytes of data in the cloud. And we only just started a couple of years ago with object storage support. So that's the power of software defined. we don't need to sell you any storage to be eventually the biggest storage player on the market. And pandemic is clear accelerated that in the last three months we see the adoption, it was already like a hockey stick, but it's accelerating further. Because of the issues customers are facing today. Unable to actually physically go back to the office, do this backup handling the way they normally do it. >> Well guys, it's been really fun the last decade watching the ascendancy of Veeam, we've boarded on it and talked about it a lot. And as you guys have both said things have been accelerated. It's actually very exciting to see a company with, rich legacy, but also, very competitive with some of the new products and new companies that are hitting the market. So, congratulations, I know you've got a lot more to do here. You guys have been, for a private company, pretty transparent, more transparent than most and I have to say as an analyst, we appreciate that and, appreciate the partnership with theCUBE. So thanks very much for coming on. >> Thank you, Dave. Always a pleasure. >> Thanks Dave. >> All right, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE in our coverage of VeeamON 2020. Veeam Online. Keep it right there, I'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of DockerCon LIVE 2020, brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE's coverage of DockerCon LIVE 2020. Happy to welcome back to the program one of our CUBE alumni, Deepak Singh. He's the vice president of compute services at Amazon Web Services. Deepak, great to see you. >> Likewise, hi, Stu. Nice to meet you again. >> All right, so for our audience that hasn't been in your previous times on theCUBE, give us a little bit about, you know, your role and your organization inside AWS? >> Yeah, so I'm, I've been part of the AWS compute services world from, for the last 12 years in various capacities. Today, I run a number of teams, all our container services, our Linux teams, I also happen to run a high performance computing organization, so it's a nice mix of all the computing that our customers do, especially some of the more new and large scale compute types that our customers are doing. >> All right, so Deepak, obviously, you know, the digital events, we understand what's happening with the global pandemic. DockerCon was actually always planned to be an online event but I want to understand, you know, your teams, how things are affecting, we know distributed is something that Amazon's done, but you have to cut up those two pizza and send them out to the additional groups or, you know, what advice are you giving the developers out there? >> Yeah, in many ways, obviously, how we operate has changed. We are at home, maybe I think with our families. DockerCon was always going to be virtual, but many other events like AWS Summits are now virtual so, you know, in some ways, the teams, the people that get most impacted are not necessarily the developers in our team but people who interact a lot with customers, who go to conferences and speak and they are finding new ways of being effective and being successful and they've been very creative at it. Our customers are getting very good at working with us virtually because we can always go to their site, they can always come to Seattle, or run of other sites for meeting. So we've all become very good at, and disciplined at how do you conduct really nice virtual meetings. But from a customer commitment side, from how we are operating, the things that we're doing, not that much has changed. We still run our projects the same way, the teams work together. My team tends to do a lot of happy things like Friday happy hours, they happen to be all virtual. I think last time we played, what word, bingo? I forget exactly what game we played. I know I got some point somewhere. But we do our best to maintain sort of our team chemistry or camaraderie but the mission doesn't change which is our customers expect us to keep operating their services, make sure that they're highly available, keep delivering new capabilities and I think in this environment, in some ways that's even more important than ever, as customer, as the consumer moves online and so much business is being done virtually so it keeps us on our toes but it's been an adjustment but I think we are all, not just us, I think the whole world is doing the best that they can under the circumstances. >> Yeah, absolutely, it definitely has humanized things quite a bit. From a technology standpoint, Deepak, you know, distributed systems has really been the challenge of you know, quite a long journey that people have been going on. Docker has played, you know, a really important role in a lot of these cloud native technologies. It's been just amazing to watch, you know, one of the things I point to in my career is, you know, watching from those very, very early days of Docker to the Cambrian explosion of what we've seen container based services, you know, you've been part of it for quite a number of years and AWS had many services out there. For people that are getting started, you know, what guidance do you give them? What do they understand about, you know, containerization in 2020? >> Yeah, containerization in 2020 is quite a bit different from when Docker started in 2013. I remember speaking at DockerCon, I forget, that's 2014, 2015, and it was a very different world. People are just trying to figure out what containers are that they could package code in deeper. Today, containers are mainstream, it is more customers or at least many customers and they are starting to build new applications, probably starting them either with containers or with some form of server technology. At least that's the default starting point but increasingly, we also seen customers with existing applications starting to think about how do they adapt? And containers are a means to an end. The end is how can we move faster? How can we deliver more quickly? How can our teams be more productive? And how can you do it more, less expensively, at lower cost? And containers are a big part, important and critical piece of that puzzle, both from how customers are operating their infrastructure, that there's a whole ecosystem of schedulers and orchestration and security tools and all the things that an enterprise need to deliver applications using containers that they have built up. Over the last few years, you know, we have multiple container services that meet those needs. And I think that's been the biggest change is that there's so much more. Which also means that when you're getting started, you're faced with many more options. When Docker started, it was this cute whale, Docker run, Docker build Docker push, it was pretty simple, you could get going really quickly. And today you have 500 different options. My guidance to customers really is, boils down to what are you trying to achieve? If you're an organization that's trying to corral infrastructure and trying to use an existing VM more effectively, for example, you probably do want to invest in becoming experts at schedulers and understanding orchestration technologies like ECS and EKS work but if you just want to run applications, you probably want to look at something like Fargate or more. I mean, you could go towards Lambda and just run code. But I think it all boils down to where you're starting your journey. And by the way, understanding Docker run, Docker build and Docker push is still a great idea. It helps you understand how things work. >> All right, so Deepak, you've already brought up a couple of AWS services of, you know, talk about the options out there, that you can either run on top of AWS, you have a lot of native services, you know, ECS, EKS, you mentioned, Fargate there, and very broad ecosystem in space. Could you just, you know, obviously, there are entire breakout sessions to talk about , the various AWS services, but you know, give us that one on one level as to what to understand for container service by AWS. >> Yeah, and these services evolved organically and we launched the Amazon Elastic Container Service or ECS in preview in November or whenever re:Invent was that year in 2014, which seems ages ago in the world of containers but in the end, our goal is to give our customers the most choice, so that they can solve problems the way they want to solve them. So Amazon ECS is our native container orchestration service, it's designed to work with and the rest of the AWS ecosystem. So it uses VPC for networking, it uses IAM identity, it uses ALB for load balancing, other than just good examples, some examples of how it works. But it became pretty clear over time that there was a lot of customers who were investing in communities, very often starting in their own data centers. And as they migrated onto the cloud, they wanted to continue using the same tool plane but they also wanted to not have to manage the complexity of communities control planes, upgrades. And they also wanted some of the same integrations that they were getting with ECS and so that's where the Amazon Elastic Kubernetes Service or EKS comes in, which is, okay, we will manage a control plane for you. We will manage upgrades and patches for you. You focus on building your applications in Kubernetes way, so it embraces Kubernetes. It has, invokes with all the Kubernetes tooling and gives you a Kubernetes native experience, but then also ties into the broad AWS ecosystem and allows us to take care of some of the muck that many customers quite frankly don't and shouldn't have to worry about. But then we took it one step further and actually launched the same time as EKS and that's, AWS Fargate, and Fargate was, came from the recognition that we had, actually, a long time ago, which is, one of the beauties of EC2 was that customers never had, had to stop, didn't have to worry about racking and stacking and where a server was running anymore. And the idea was, how can we apply that to the world of containers. And we also learned a little bit from what we had done with Lambda. And we took that and took the server layer and took it out of the way. Then from a customer standpoint, all you're launching is a pod or a task or a service and you're not worrying about which machines I need to get, what types of machines I need to get. And the operational simplicity that comes with it is quite remarkable and quite finding not that, surprisingly, our customers want us to keep pushing the boundary of the kind operational simplicity we can give them but Fargate serves a critical building block and part of that, and we're super excited because, you know, today by far when a new customer, when a customer comes and runs a container on AWS the first time they pick Fargate, we're usually using ECS because EKS and Fargate is much newer, but that is a default starting point for any new container customer on AWS which is great. >> All right, well, you know, Docker, the company really helped a lot with that democratization, container technologies, you know, all those services that you talked about from AWS. I'm curious now, the partnership with Docker here, you know, how do some of the AWS services, you know, fit in with Docker? I'm thinking Docker Desktop probably someplace that they're, you know, or some connection? >> Yeah, I think one of the things that Docker has always been really good at as a company, as a project, is understanding the developer and the fact that they start off on a laptop. That's where the original Docker experience that go well, and Docker Desktop since then and we see a ton of Docker Desktop customers have used AWS. We also learned very early on, because originally ECS CLI supported Docker Compose. That ecosystem is also very rich and people like building Docker files and post files and just being able to launch them. So we continue to learn from what Docker is doing with Docker Desktop. We continue working with them on making sure that customizing the Docker Compose and Docker Desktop can run all their services and application on AWS. And we'll continue working with Docker, the company, on how we make that a lot easier for our customers, they are our mutual customers, and how we can learn from their simplicity that Docker, the simplicity that Docker brings and the sort of ease of use the Docker bring for the developer and the developer experience. We learn from that for our own services and we love working with them to make sure that the customer that's starting with Docker Desktop or the Docker CLI has a great experience as they move towards a fully orchestrated experience in the cloud, for example. There's a couple of other areas where Docker has turned out to have had foresight and driven some of our thinking. So a few years ago, Docker released this thing called containerd, where they took out their container runtime from inside the bigger Docker engine. And containerd has become a very important project for us as well as, it's the underpinning of Fargate now and we see a lot of interest from customers that want to keep building on containerd as well. And it's going to be very interesting to see how we work with Docker going forward and how we can continue to give our customers a lot of value, starting from the laptop and then ending up with large scale services in the cloud. >> Very interesting stuff, you know, interesting. Anytime we have a conversation about Docker, there's Docker the technology and Docker the company and that leads us down the discussion of open-source technologies . You were just talking about, you know, containerd believe that connects us to Firecracker. What you and your team are involved in, what's your viewpoint is the, you know, what you're seeing from open-source, how does Amazon think of that? And what else can you share with the audience on this topic? >> Yeah, as you've probably seen over the last few years, both from our work in Kubernetes, with things like Firecracker and more recently Bottlerocket. AWS gets deeply involved with open-source in a number of ways. We are involved heavily with a number of CNCF projects, whether it be containerd, whether it be things like Kubernetes itself, projects in the Kubernetes ecosystem, the service mesh world with Envoy and with the containerd project. So where containerd fits in really well with AWS is in a project that we call firecracker-containerd. They're effectively for Fargate, firecracker-containerd as we move Fargate towards Firecracker becomes out of the container in which you run containerd. It's effectively the equivalent of runC in a traditional Docker engine world. And, you know, one of the first things we did when Firecracker got rolled out was open-source the firecracker-containerd project. It's a go project and the idea was it's a great way for people to build VM like isolation and then build sort of these serverless container architectures like we want to do with Fargate. And, you know, I think Firecracker itself has been a great success. You see customer, you know, companies like Libvirt integrating with Firecracker. I've seen a few other examples of, sometimes unbeknownst to us, of people picking a Firecracker and using it for very, very interesting use cases and not just on AWS in other places as well. And we learnt a lot from that that's kind of why Bottlerocket is, was released the way it was. It is both a product and a project. Bottlerocket, the operating system is an open-source project. It's on GitHub, it has all the building tooling, you can take it and do whatever you want with it. And then on the AWS side, we will build and publish Bottlerocket armies, Amazon machine images, we will support them on AWS and there it's a product. But then Bottlerocket the project is something that anybody in the world who wants to run a minimal operating system can choose to pick up. And I think we've learnt a lot from these experiences, how we deal with the community, how we work with other people who are interested in contributing. And you know, Docker is one of the, the Docker open-source pieces and Docker the company are both part of the growing open-source ecosystem that's coming from AWS, especially on the container world. So it's going to be very interesting. And I'll end with, containerization has started impacting other parts of AWS, as well as our other services are being built, very often through ECS and EKS, but they're also influencing how we think about what capabilities we need to build into the broader container ecosystem. >> Yeah, Deepak, you know, you mentioned that some of the learnings from Lambda has impacted the services you're doing on the containerization side. You know, we've been watching some of the blurring of the lines between another container world and the containerization world. You know, there's some open-source projects out there, the CNCS working on things, you know, what's the latest, as you see kind of containerization and serverless and you know, where do you see them going forward? >> This is that I say that crystal balls are not my strong suite. But we hear customers, customers often want the best of both world. What we see very often is that customers don't actually choose just Fargate or just Lambda, they'll choose both. Where for different pieces of their architecture, they may pick a different solution. And sometimes that's driven by what they know, sometimes driven by what fits into their need. Some of the lines blur but they're still quite different. Lambda, for example, as a very event driven architecture, it is one process at a time. It has all these event hooks into the rest of AWS that are hard to replicate. And if that's the world you want to live in or benefit from, you're going to use lambda. If you're running long running services or you want a particular size that you don't get in Lambda or you want to take a more traditional application and convert it into a more modern application, chances are you're starting on Fargate but it fits in really well you have an existing operational model that fits into it. So we see applications evolving very interestingly. It's one reason why when we build a service mesh, we thought forward instead. It is almost impossible that we will have a world that's 100% containers, 100% Lambda or 100% EC2. It's going to be some mix of all of these. We have to think about it that way. And it's something that we constantly think about is how can we do things in a way that companies aren't forced to pick one way to it and "Oh, I'm going to build on Fargate" and then months later, they're like, "Yeah, we should have probably done Lambda." And I think that is something we think a lot about, whether it's from a developer's experience side or if it's from service meshes, which allow you to move back and forth or make the mesh. And I think that is the area where you'll see us do a lot more going forward. >> Excellent, so last last question for you Deepak is just give us a little bit as to what, you know, industry watchers will be looking at the container services going forward, next kind of 12, 18 months? >> Yeah, so I think one of the great things of the last 18 months has been that type of application that we see customers running, I don't think there's any bound to it. We see everything from people running microservices, or whatever you want to call decoupled services these days, but are services in the end, people are running, most are doing a lot of batch processing, machine learning, artificial intelligence that work with containers. But I think where the biggest dangers are going to come is as companies mature, as companies make containers, not just things that they build greenfield applications but also start thinking about migrating legacy applications in much more volume. A few things are going to happen. I think we'll be, containers come with a lot of complexity right now. I think you've, if you've seen my last two talks at re:Invent along with David Richardson from the Lambda team. You'll hear that we talk a lot about the fact that we see, we've made customers think about more things than they used to in the pre container world. I think you'll see now that the early adopter techie part has done, cloud has adopted containers and the next wave of mainstream users is coming in, you'll see more attractions come on as well, you'll see more governance, I think service meshes have a huge role to play here. How identity works or this fits into things like control tower and more sort of enterprise focused tooling around how you put guardrails around your containerized applications. You'll see it two or three different directions, I think you'll see a lot more on the serverless side, just the fact that so many customers start with Fargate, they're going to make us do more. You'll see a lot more on the ease of use developer experience of production side because you started off with the folks who like to tinker and now you're getting more and more customers that just want to run. And then you'll see, and that's actually a place where Docker, the company and the project have a lot to offer, because that's always been different. And then on the other side, you have the governance guardrails, and how is going to be in a compliant environment, how am I going to migrate all these applications over so that work will keep going on and you'll more and more of that. So those are the three buckets I'll use, the world can surprise us and you might end up with something completely radically different but that seems like what we're hearing from our customers right now. >> Excellent, well, Deepak, always a pleasure to catch up with you. Thanks so much for joining us again on theCUBE. >> No, always a pleasure Stu and hopefully, we get to do this again someday in person. >> Absolutely, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks as always for watching theCUBE. >> Deepak: Yep, thank you. (gentle music)

(upbeat music) >> From around the globe, it's theCUBE. With digital coverage of VeeamON 2020. Brought to you by Veeam. Everybody, we're back. This is Dave Vellante, and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of VeeamON 2020. Veeam Online 2020. And Danny Allen is here, he's the CTO and Senior Vice President of Product Strategy and he's joined by Anton Gostev, who's the Senior Vice President of Product Management. Gentlemen, good to see you again. Wish we were face-to-face, but thanks for coming on, virtually. >> Thanks Dave for having us. >> Always love being on with you. Thank you. >> So Danny, I want to start with you. In your keynote, you talked to, about great quote by Satya Nadella. He said "We basically compress two years of digital transformation in two months." And so, I'm interested in what that meant for Veeam but also specifically, for your customers and how you help. >> Yeah, I think about that in two different ways. So digital transformation is obviously the word that he used. But I think of this a lot about being remote. So in two months, every organization that we're ourselves included, has gone from, in person operations going into the office doing things to enabling remote operations. And so, I'm working from home today, Anton's working from home today. We're all working from home today. And so remote operations is a big part of that. And it's not just working from home, it's how do I actually conduct my operations, my backup, my archiving, my hearing, all of those things remotely. It's actually changed the way organizations think about their data management. Not just operations from the sense of internal processes, but also external processes as well. But I think about this as remote offering. So organizations say, "How can I take where we are today "in the world and turn this into competitive advantage? "How can I take the services that I offered today, "and help my customers be more successful remotely?" And so, it has those two aspects to it remote operations, remote offerings. And of course, all driven by data which we backed. >> So Anton, you know there's a saying "It's better to be lucky than good." And I say, "It's best to be lucky and good." So Danny was talking about some of the external processes, a lot of those processes were unknown. And people kind of making them up as they went along, with things that we've never seen before. So, I wonder if we could talk about your product suite, and how well you were able to adapt to some of these unknown. >> Well it's more customers using our product in creative ways. But, one feedback we got most recently in our annual user survey is that like, one of the customers was using tape as the off-site backups. And they had a process where obviously someone had to physically come to the office, pick up the exporter tapes and put them on the truck and move them some off-site location. And so this basically, the process was completely broken with COVID because of lockdown. And in that particular country, it was a stricter on the ground than in most and they were physically unable to basically leave the home. So they basically looked at, Luckily they upgraded already to version 10. And they looked at what version 10 has to offer. And then we're able to switch from using tape to fully automating this off-site backup and going directly to the public cloud to object storage. So, they still have the same off-site backups that, effectively air-gapped because of the first house you provide in virtual time for mutable backups. As soon as they created that they automatically ship to object storage, completely replacing this manual off-site process. So I don't know how long it will take them, if not COVID, to move to this process. Now they love it because it's so much better than what they did before. That's amazing. >> Yeah I bet, there's no doubt. That's interesting, that's an interesting use case. Do you see, others use cases that popped up. Again, I was saying that these processes were new. I mean, and I'm interested in from a product standpoint, how you guys were able to adapt to that. >> Well, another use case that seems to be on the rise is that the ability for customers to deploy the new machines to procure new hardware is severely limited now. Not only their supply chain issues, but also again, bring something into your data center. You have to physically be there and collaborate with other workers and doing installing the, whatever new hardware you purchase. So, we see a significant pick up of the functionality where that, we had in the product for a while, which we called direct resorts to cloud. So we support taking any backup, physical virtual machine. And restoring directory into cloud machine. So we see really the big uptick of migration, maybe a lot of migrations, maybe, not necessarily permanent migrations, but when people want to basically this, some of the applications start to struggle on their sources and they're unable to update the underlying hardware. So what they do is that they schedule the downtime, and then migrate, restore that latest backup into the cloud and continue using the machine in the cloud on much more powerful hardware. That's a lifesaver for them obviously in this situation. >> Yeah so the cloud, Danny is becoming a linchpin of these new models. In your keynote you talked about your vision. And it's interesting to note, I mean, VeeamON, last year, you actually talked about, what I call getting back to the basic of, backup, you kind of embrace backup, where a lot of the new entrants are like, "No no backup's, just one small part, it's data management." And, so I'd love to get your thoughts on that. But the vision you laid out was, backup and cloud data management. Maybe you could, unpack that a little bit. >> Yeah, the way I think about this is step one, in every infrastructure, it doesn't matter whether you're talking about on-prem or in the cloud. Step one is, to protect your data. So this is ingesting the data, whether be backup, whether it be replication, whether it be, long term retention. We have to do that, not only do we have to do that, but as you go to new cycles of infrastructure, it happens all over again. So, we backed up physical first and then virtual, and then we did, cloud and in some ways, containers we're going towards, we're not going backwards but people who are running containers on-prem so we always go back to the starting point of protect the data. And then of course, after you protect it then you, want to effectively begin to manage it. And that's exactly what Anton said. How do you automate the operational procedures to be able to make this part of the DNA of the organization and so, it doesn't matter whether it's on-prem or whether it's in the cloud, that protection of data and then the effective management and integration with existing processes, is fundamental for every infrastructure and will continue to be so into the future, including the cloud. And it's only then when you have this effective protection and management of it, can you begin to unleash the power of data, as you look out into the future, because you can reuse the data for additional purposes, you can move it to the optimal location, but we always start with protection and management of the data. >> So Anton, I want to come back to you on this notion of cloud being a portion of that, when you talk about security people say you layer, how should we think about the cloud? Is it a another layer of protection? And then Danny just said, "It doesn't really matter whether it's on-prem "or in the cloud, it well, it doesn't matter "if you can ensure the same experience." If it's a totally different experience well then it's problematic though. I wonder if you could address, both the layers. Is cloud just another layer and is the management of that, actually, how do you make it, quote, unquote, "Seamless"? I know it's an overused word, but from a product name? >> Well, for larger customers, it's not necessarily a new challenge, because it's rare when the customer had a single data center. And they had this challenge for always. How do I manage my multiple data centers with a single pane of glass? And, I will say public cloud does not necessarily mean that some new perspective in that sense. Yeah, maybe it even makes it easier because you no longer have to manage the physical aspect, the most important aspect of security, which is physical security. So someone else manages it for you and probably much better than most companies could ever afford. In terms of security answer, so then data center. But as far as networking security and how those multiple data centers interact with each other, that's essentially not a new challenge. It is a new challenge for smaller customers for SMBs that are just starting. So they have their own small data center, small world and now they are starting to move some workloads into the cloud. And I would say the biggest problem there is networking and VeeamON, sure provides some free tools to call Veeam PN to make it easier for them to make this step of, securing the networking aspect of public cloud and the private property also that they are in now as workloads move to the cloud, but also keeping some workloads on-prem. >> The other piece of cloud Danny, is SaaS. You weren't the first you were one of the first to offer SaaS back up particularly for Office 365. And a lot of people just, I think, rely on the SaaS vendor, "Hey, they've got me covered. "They've got me backed up", and maybe they do have them backed up, but they might not have them recovered. How is that market shaping up? What are the trends that you're seeing there? >> Well, you're absolutely right Dave. That the, focus here is not just on back up, but on recovery, and it's one of the things that Veeam is known for we don't just do the backup, but we have an Explorer for Exchange , an Explorer for SharePoint, an Explorer for OneDrive. You saw on stage today we demoed the Explorer for Microsoft Teams. So, it's not just about protecting the data, but getting back the specific element of data that you need for operations. And that is critically important. And our customers expect to need that. If you're depending on the SaaS vendor themselves to do that, and I won't, be derogatory or specific about any SaaS vendor, but what they'll often do is, take the entire data set from seven days ago, we'll say, and merge it back into the current data set. And that just results in, a complete chaos of your inbox, if that's what they're merging together. So having specific granularity to pull back that data, exactly the data you need when you need it, is critical. And that's why we're adding it, and the focus on Microsoft Teams now obviously, is because, as we have more intellectual property, in collaboration tools for remote operations, exactly what we're doing now, that only becomes more critical for the business. So, when you think about SaaS for backup, but we also think about it for recovery. And one thing that I'll credit Anton and the product management team for, we build all of this in-house, We don't give this to a third party to build it on our behalf because you need it to work and not only need it to work, but need it to work well, that completely integrated with the underlying cloud data management platform. >> So Anton, I wonder if I could ask you about that. So, from a recovery standpoint, there's one thing, is Dan was saying, you've got to have the granularity, you've got to be able to have a really relatively simple way to recover. But because it's the cloud, there's, latency involved and how are you from a product standpoint, dealing with, making that recovery as consistent and predictable and reliable as you have for a decade on-prem. >> So you mean recovery in the cloud or back to on-prem? >> Yeah, so, recovery from data that lives in the cloud. >> Okay. So basically, the most important feature of any cloud is the price of whatever you do. So, whenever we design anything, we always look at the costs even more than anything else. But, it in turn always translates into better performance as well. To give you example, without functionality where we can take the on-prem backup and make a copy in the public object storage for disaster recovery purposes, so that for example, when a hacker or ransomware wipes out your, entire data center, you have those backups in the cloud, and you can restore from them. So when you perform the restore from cloud backups, we are actually smart enough to understand that, we need to pull that and this in that block from the cloud backup, but many of those blocks actually shared with backups in another machines that are in your own prem backup repository. So we do this on the fly analysis, and we say, instead of pulling the 10 terabyte of the entire backup from the cloud, we can actually pull only 100 gigabytes off unique blocks. And the rest of the blocks we can take from on-prem repositories that have still survived the disaster. So, not only reduces the cost 20 times or whatever. The performance, obviously, of restoring from on-prem data versus pulling everything from the cloud through the internet links is dramatic. So again, we started from the cost, how do we reduce the cost of restore, because, that's where cloud vendors quote, unquote, "Get you." But in the end, it resulted in much better performance as well. >> Excellent, Anton as well in your keynote, you talked about the Veeam availability suite, gave a little sneak preview. You talked about continuous data protection. Cloud Tier, NAS recovery, which is oftentimes very challenging. What should we take away from that sneak peek? >> Three main directions basically, The first is Veeam CGP is we keep investing a lot in on-prem, data Protection, disaster recovery. VMware is a clear leader of on-prem virtualization. So, we keep building these, new ways to protect your web VMware with lower RPOs and RTOs that were never possible before with the classic snapshotting technologies. So that's one thing we keep investing on-prem. Second thing, we do major investments in the cloud in object storage specifically, from that regards, again, put a couple keynote in Google Cloud support. And we're adding the ability to work with coldest tier of object storage, which is Amazon Glacier Deep Archive or Microsoft Azure Blob Storage, archive tier. So that's the second big area of investment. And third, instant recovery Veaam has always been extremely well known for its instant recovery capabilities. And this race is going to be the biggest in terms of new instant recovery capabilities, that were introduced as many as three new major companies with capabilities there. (mumbles) >> So, Danny, I wonder if I could ask you. I'm interested in how you go from product strategy to actual product management and bring things to market. I mean, in the early days, Veeam. Very, very specific to virtualization. That of course, with the Bare-metal, you got a number of permutations and product capabilities. How do you guys work together in terms of assessing the market potential, the degree of difficulty, prioritizing, how does that all come to your customer value? >> Well, first of all, Anton and I, spend a lot of time together on the phone and collaborating just on a weekly basis about where we're going, what we're going to do. I always say there's four directions that we look at for the product strategy and what we're building. You look behind you, you have a, we have 375,000 customers and so those are the tail winds that are pushing you forward. We talked to them on all segments. What is it that you want? I say we look left and right, the left who are alliances. We have a rich ecosystem of partners and channel that we look to collect feedback from. Look right, we look out at the competitors in this space, what are they doing to make sure that we're not missing anything that we should be including and then look forward. Big focus of Veeam has always been not just creating check boxes and making sure that we have the required features but innovation. And you saw that on stage today when Anton was showing the NAS Instant Recovery in the database instant recovery and the capabilities that we have, we have a big focus on, not just checking a box but actually doing things better and differently than everyone else in the industry and that serve to see incredibly well. >> So I love that framework. But so now when you think about this pandemic, you look behind your customers have obviously been affected, your partners have been affected. Let's put your competitors to the side for a minute, we'll see how they respond. But then looking forward, future, as I've said many times, we're not just going back to 2019. We're new decade and really digital transformation is becoming real, for real this time around. So as you think about the pandemic and looking at those four dimensions, what initial conclusions are you drawing? >> Well, the first one would be that that Veeam is well positioned to win, continue to win and to win into the future. And the reason for that I would argue, is that we're software defined. Our whole model is based on being simple to use obviously, but software defined and because of the pandemic, as Anton said, can't go into the office anymore to switch your tapes from one system to another. And so being software defined set this apart positions as well for the future. And so make it simple, make it flexible. And ultimately, what our customers care about is the reliability of this end to the credit of research and development and Anton theme is, "We have product that as everyone says, it just worked". >> So Anton I wonder if I could ask you kind of a similar question. How has the pandemic affected your thinking along those dimensions and maybe some of your initial thinking on changes that you'll implement? >> Yes, sorry I wanted to add exactly on that. I will say that pandemic accelerated our vision becoming the reality. Basically, the vision we had and, I said a few years ago, one day that Veeam will become the biggest storage vendor without selling a single storage box. And this is just becoming the reality. We support a number of object storage providers today. Only a few of them actually track the consumption that is generated by different vendors. And just for those few who do track that and report numbers to us. We are already managing over hundreds of petabytes of data in the cloud. And we only just started a couple of years ago with object storage support. So that's the power of software defined. we don't need to sell you any storage to be eventually the biggest storage player on the market. And pandemic is clear accelerated that in the last three months we see the adoption, it was already like a hockey stick, but it's accelerating further. Because of the issues customers are facing today. Unable to actually physically go back to the office, do this backup handling the way they normally do it. >> Well guys, it's been really fun the last decade watching the ascendancy of Veeam, we've boarded on it and talked about it a lot. And as you guys have both said things have been accelerated. It's actually very exciting to see a company with, rich legacy, but also, very competitive with some of the new products and new companies that are hitting the market. So, congratulations, I know you've got a lot more to do here. You guys have been, for a private company, pretty transparent, more transparent than most and I have to say as an analyst, we appreciate that and, appreciate the partnership with theCUBE. So thanks very much for coming on. >> Thank you, Dave. Always a pleasure. >> Thanks Dave. >> All right, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE in our coverage of VeeamON 2020. Veeam Online. Keep it right there, I'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE conversation. >> Everyone, welcome to the Cube special coverage of the AWS Summit San Francisco, North America all over the world, and most of the parts Asia, Pacific Amazon Summit is the hashtag. This is part of theCUBE Virtual Program, where we're going to be covering Amazon Summits throughout the year. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. And of course, we're not at the events. We're here in the Palo Alto Studios, with our COVID-19 quarantine crew. And we got a great guest here from AWS, Dave Brown, Vice President of EC2, leads the team on elastic compute, and its business where it's evolving and most importantly, what it means for the customers in the industry. Dave, thanks for spending the time to come on theCUBE virtual program. >> Hey John, it's really great to be here, thanks for having me. >> So we got the summit going down. It's new format because of the shelter in place. They're going virtual or digital, virtualization of events. And I want to have a session with you on EC2, and some of the new things they're going on. And I think the story is important, because certainly around the pandemic, and certainly on the large scale, SaaS business models, which are turning out to be quite the impact from a positive standpoint, with people sheltering in place, what is the role of data in all this, okay? And also, there's a lot of pressure financially. We've had the payroll loan programs from the government, and to companies really looking at their bottom lines. So two major highlights going on in the world that's directly impacted. And you have some products, and news around this, I want to do a deep dive on that. One is AppFlow, which is a new integration service by AWS, that really talks about taking the scale and value of AWS services, and integrating that with SaaS Applications. And the migration acceleration program for Windows, which has a storied history of database. For many, many years, you guys have been powering most of the Windows workloads, ironic that you guys are not Microsoft, but certainly had success there. Let's start with the AppFlow. Okay, this was recently announced on the 22nd of April. This is a new service. Can you take us through why this is important? What is the service? Why now, what was the main driver behind AppFlow? >> Yeah, absolutely. So with the launcher AppFlow, what we're really trying to do is make it easy for organizations and enterprises to really control the flow of their data, between the number of different applications that they use on premise, and AWS. And so the problem we started to see was, enterprises just had this data all over the place, and they wanted to do something useful with it. Right, we see many organizations running Data Lakes, large scale analytics, Big Machine Learning on AWS, but before you can do all of that, you have to have access to the data. And if that data is sitting in an application, either on-premise or elsewhere in AWS, it's very difficult to get out of that application, and into S3, or Redshift, or one of those services, before you can manipulate it, that was the challenge. And so the journey kind of started a few years ago, we actually launched a service on the EC2 network, inside Private Link. And it was really, it provided organizations with a very secure way to transfer network data, both between VPCs, and also between VPC, and on-prem networks. And what this highlighted to us, is organizations say that's great, but I actually don't have the technical ability, or the team, to actually do the work that's required to transform the data from, whether it's Salesforce, or SAP, and actually move it over Private Link to AWS. And so we realized, while private link was useful, we needed another layer of service that actually provided this, and one of the key requirements was an organization must be able to do this with no code at all. So basically, no developer required. And I want to be able to transfer data from Salesforce, my Salesforce database, and put that in Redshift together with some other data, and then perform some function on that. And so that's what AppFlow is all about. And so we came up with the idea about a little bit more than a year ago, that was the first time I sat down, and actually reviewed the content for what this was going to be. And the team's been hard at work, and launched on the 22nd of April. And we actually launched with 14 partners as well, that provide what we call connectors, which allow us to access these various services, and companies like Salesforce and ServiceNow, Slack, Snowflake, to name a few. >> Well, certainly you guys have a great ecosystem of SaaS partners, and that's you know well documented in the industry that you guys are not going to be competing directly with a lot of these big SaaS players, although you do have a few services for customers who want end to end, Jassy continues to pound that home on my Cube interviews. But I think this, >> Absolutely. is notable, and I want to get your thoughts on this, because this seems to be the key unlocking of the value of SaaS and Cloud, because data traversal, data transfer, there's costs involved, also moving traffic over the internet is unsecure, and unreliable. So a couple questions I wanted to just ask you directly. One is did the AppFlow come out of the AWS Private Link piece of it? And two, is it one directional or bi-directional? How is that working? Because I'm guessing that you had Private Link became successful, because no one wants to move on the internet. They wanted direct connects. Was there something inadequate about that service? Was there more headroom there? And is it bi-directional for the customer? >> So let me take the second one, it's absolutely bi-directional. So you can transfer that data between an on-premise application and AWS, or AWS and the on-premise application. Really, anything that has a connector can support the data flow in both directions. And with transformations, and so data in one data source, may need to be transformed, before it's actually useful in a second data source. And so AppFlow takes care of all that transformation as well, in both directions, And again, with no requirement for any code, on behalf of the customer. Which really unlocks it for a lot of the more business focused parts of an organization, who maybe don't have immediate access to developers. They can use it immediately, just literally with a few transformations via the console, and it's working for you. In terms of, you mentioned sort of the flow of data over the internet, and the need for security of data. It's critically important, and as we look at just what had happened as a company does. We have very, very strict requirements around the flow of data, and what services we can use internally. And where's any of our data going to be going? And I think it's a good example of how many enterprises are thinking about data today. They don't even want to trust even HTTPS, and encryption of data on the internet. I'd rather just be in a world where my data never ever traverses the internet, and I just never have to deal with that. And so, the journey all started with Private Link there, and probably was an interesting feature, 'cause it really was changing the way that we asked our customers to think about networking. Nothing like Private Link has ever existed, in the sort of standard networking that an enterprise would normally have. It's kind of only possible because of what VPC allows you to do, and what the software defined network on AWS gives you. And so we built Private Link, and as I said, customers started to adopt it. They loved the idea of being able to transfer data, either between VPCs, or between on-premise. Or between their own VPC, and maybe a third party provider, like Snowflake, has been a very big adopter of Private Link, and they have many customers using it to get access to Snowflake databases in a very secure way. And so that's where it all started, and in those discussions with customers, we started to see that they wanted us to up level a little bit. They said, "We can use Private Link, it's great, "but one of the problems we have is just the flow of data." And how do we move data in a very secure, in a highly available way, with no sort of bottlenecks in the system. And so we thought Private Link was a great sort of underlying technology, that empowered all of this, but we had to build the system on top of that, which is AppFlow. That says we're going to take care of all the complexity. And then we had to go to the ecosystem, and say to all these providers, "Can you guys build connectors?" 'Cause everybody realized it's super important that data can be shared, and so that organizations can really extract the value from that data. And so the 14 of them at launch, we have many, many more down the road, have come to the party with with connectors, and full support of what AppFlow provides. >> Yeah us DevOps purists always are pounding the fist on the table, now virtual table, API's and connectors. This is the model, so people are integrating. And I want to get your thoughts on this. I think you said low code, or no code on the developer simplicity side. Is it no code, or low code? Can you just explain quickly and clarify that point? >> It's no code for getting started literally, for the kind of, it's basic to medium complexity use case. It's not code, and a lot of customers we spoke to, that was a bottleneck. Right, they needed something from data. It might have been the finance organization, or it could have been human resources, somebody else in organization needed that. They don't have a developer that helps them typically. And so we find that they would wait many, many months, or maybe even never get the project done, just because they never ever had access to that data, or to the developer to actually do the work that was required for the transformation. And so it's no code for almost all use cases. Where it literally is, select your data source, select the connector, and then select the transformations. And some basic transformations, renaming of fields, transformation of data in simple ways. That's more than sufficient for the vast majority of use cases. And then obviously through to the destination, with the connector on the other side, to do the final transformation, to the final data source that you want to migrate the data to. >> You know, you have an interesting background, was looking at your history, and you've essentially been a web services kind of guy all your life. From a code standpoint software environment, and now I'll say EC2 is the crown jewel of AWS, and doing more and more with S3. But what's interesting, as you build more of these layers services in there, there's more flexibility. So right now, in most of the customer environments, is a debate around, do I build something monolithic, and or decoupled, okay? And I think there's a world where there's a mutually, not mutually exclusive, I mean, you have a mainframe, you have a big monolithic thing, if it does something. But generally people would agree that a decoupled environment is more flexible, and more agile. So I want to kind of get to the customer use case, 'cause I can really see this being really powerful, AppFlow with Private Link, where you mentioned Snowflake. I mean, Snowflake is built on AWS, they're doing extremely, extremely well, like any other company that builds on AWS. Whether it's theCUBE Cloud, or it's Snowflake. As we tap those services, customers, we might have people who want to build on our platform on top of AWS. So I know a bunch of startups that are building within the Snowflake ecosystem, a customer of yours. >> Yeah. >> So they're technically a customer of Amazon, but they're also in the ecosystem of say, Snowflake. >> Yes. >> So this brings up an interesting kind of computer science problem, which is architecturally, how do I think about that? Is this something where AppFlow could help me? Because I certainly want to enable people to build on a platform, that I build if I'm doing that, if I'm not going to be a pure SaaS turnkey application. But if I'm going to bring partners in, and do integration, use the benefits of the goodness of an API or Connector driven architecture, I need that. So explain to me how this helps me, or doesn't help me. Is this something that makes sense to you? Does this question make sense? How do you react to that? >> I think so, I think the question is pretty broad. But I think there's an element in which I can help. So firstly, you talk about sort of decoupled applications, right? And I think that is certainly the way that we've gone at Amazon, and been very, very successful for us. I think we started that journey back in 2003, when we decoupled the monolithic application that was amazon.com. And that's when our service journey started. And a lot of that sort of inspired AWS, and how we built what we built today. And we see a lot of our customers doing that, moving to smaller applications. It just works better, it's easier to debug, there's ownership at a very controlled level. So you can get all your engineering teams to have very clear and crisp ownership. And it just drives innovation, right? 'Cause each little component can innovate without the burden of the rest of the ecosystem. And so that's what we really enjoy. I think the other thing that's important when you think about design, is to see how much of the ecosystem you can leverage. And so whether you're building on Snowflake, or you're building directly on top of AWS, or you're building on top of one of our other customers and partners. If you can use something that solves the problem for you, versus building it yourself. Well that just leaves you with more time to actually go and focus on the stuff that you need to be solving, right? The product you need to be building. And so in the case of AppFlow, I think if there's a need for transfer of data, between, for example, Snowflake and some data warehouse, that you as an organisation are trying to build on a Snowflake infrastructure. AppFlow is something you could potentially look at. It's certainly not something that you could just use for, it's very specific and focused to the flow of data between services from a data analytics point of view. It's not really something you could use from an API point of view, or messaging between services. It's more really just facilitating that flow of data, and the transformation of data, to get it into a place that you can do something useful with it. >> And you said-- >> But like any of our services-- (speakers talk over each other) Couldn't be using any layer in the stack. >> Yes, it's a level of integration, right? There's no code to code, depending on how you look at it, cool. Customer use cases, you mentioned, large scale analytics, I thought I heard you say, machine learning, Data Lakes. I mean, basically, anyone who's using data is going to want to tap some sort of data repository, and figure out how to scale data when appropriate. There's also contextual, relevant data that might be specific to say, an industry vertical, or a database. And obviously, AI becomes the application for all this. >> Exactly. >> If I'm a customer, how does AppFlow relate to that? How does that help me, and what's the bottom line? >> So I think there's two parts to that journey. And depending on where customers are, and so there's, we do have millions of customers today that are running applications on AWS. Over the last few years, we've seen the emergence of Data Lakes, really just the storage of a large amount of data, typically in S3. But then companies want to extract value out of, and use in certain ways. Obviously, we have many, many tools today, from Redshift, Athena, that allow you to utilize these Data Lakes, and be able to run queries against this information. Things like EMR, and one of our oldest services in the space. And so doing some sort of large scale analytics, and more recently, services like SageMaker, are allowing us to do machine learning. And so being able to run machine learning across an enormous amount of data that we have stored in AWS. And there's some stuff in the IoT, workload use space as well, that's emerging. And many customers are using it. There's obviously many customers today that aren't using it on AWS, potential customers for us, that are looking to do something useful with data. And so the one part of the journey is taking up all of that infrastructure, and we have a lot of services that make it really easy to do machine learning, and do analytics, and that sort of thing. And then the other problem, the other side of the problem, which is what AppFlow is addressing is, how do I get that data to S3, or to Redshift, to actually go and run that machine learning workload? And that's what it's really unlocking for customers. And it's not just the one time transfer of data, the other thing that AppFlow actually supports, is the continuous updating of data. And so if you decide that you want to have that view of your data in S3, for example, and Data Lake, that's kept up to date, within a few minutes, within an hour, you can actually configure AppFlow to do that. And so the data source could be Salesforce, it could be Slack, it could be whatever data source you want to blend. And you continuously have that flow of data between those systems. And so when you go to run your machine learning workload, or your analytics, it's all continuously up to date. And you don't have this problem of, let me get the data, right? And when I think about some of the data jobs that I've run, in my time, back in the day as an engineer, on early EC2, a small part of it was actually running the job on the data. A large part of it was how do I actually get that data, and is it up to date? >> Up to date data is critical, I think that's the big feature there is that, this idea of having the data connectors, really makes the data fresh, because we go through the modeling, and you realize why I missed a big patch of data, the machine learnings not effective. >> Exactly. >> I mean, it's only-- >> Exactly, and the other thing is, it's very easy to bring in new data sources, right? You think about how many companies today have an enormous amount of data just stored in silos, and they haven't done anything with it. Often it'll be a conversation somewhere, right? Around the coffee machine, "Hey, we could do this, and we can do this." But they haven't had the developers to help them, and haven't had access to the data, and haven't been able to move the data, and to put it in a useful place. And so, I think what we're seeing here, with AppFlow, really unlocking of that. Because going from that initial conversation, to actually having something running, literally requires no code. Log into the AWS console, configure a few connectors, and it's up and running, and you're ready to go. And you can do the same thing with SageMaker, or any of the other services we have on the other side that make it really simple to run some of these ideas, that just historically have been just too complicated. >> Alright, so take me through that console piece. Just walk me through, I'm in, you sold me on this. I just came out of meeting with my company, and I said, "Hey, you know what? "We're blowing up this siloed approach. "We want to kind of create this horizontal data model, "where we can mix "and match connectors based upon our needs." >> Yeah. >> So what do I do? I'm using SageMaker, using some data, I got S3, I got an application. What do I do? I'm connecting what, S3? >> Yeah, well-- >> To the app? >> So the simplest thing is, and the simplest place to find this actually, is on Jeff Bezos blog, that he did for the release, right? Jeff always does a great job in demonstrating how to use our various products. But it literally is going into the standard AWS console, which is the console that we use for all of our services. I think we have 200 of them, so it is getting kind of challenging to find the ball in that console, as we continue to grow. And find AppFlow. AppFlow is a top level service, and so you'll see it in the console. And the first thing you got to do, is you got to configure your Source-Connect. And so it's a connector that, where's the data coming from? And as I said, we had 14 partners, you'll be able to see those connectors there, and see what's supported. And obviously, there's the connectivity. Do you have access to that data, or where is the data running? AppFlow runs within AWS, and so you need to have either VPN, or direct connect back to the organization, if the data source is on-premise. If the data source happens to be in AWS, and obviously be in a VPC, and you just need to configure some of that connectivity functionality. >> So no code if the connectors are there, but what if I want to build my own connector? >> So building your own connector, that is something that we working with third parties with right now. I could be corrected, but not 100% sure whether that's available. It's certainly something I think we would allow customers to do, is to extend sort of either the existing connectors, or to add additional transformations as well. And so you'd be able to do that. But the transformations that the vast majority of our customers are using are literally just in the console, with the basic transformations. >> It comes bigger apps that people have, and just building those connectors. How does a partner get involved? You got 14 partners now, how do you extend the partner base contact in Amazon Partner Manager, or you send an email to someone? How does someone get involved? What are you recommending? >> So there are a couple of ways, right? We have an extensive partner ecosystem that the vast majority of these ISVs are already integrated with. And so, we have the 14 we launched with, we also pre announced SAP, which is going to be a very critical one for the vast majority of our customers. Having deep integration with SAP data, and being able to bring that seamlessly into AWS. That'll be launching soon. And then there's a long list of other ones, that we're currently working on. And they're currently working on them themselves. And then the other one is going to be, like with most things that Amazon, feedback from customers. And so what we hear from customers, and very often you'll hear from third party partners as well, who'll come and say, "Hey, my customers are asking me "to integrate with the AppFlow, what do I need to do?" And so, you know, just reaching out to AWS, and letting them know that you'd be interested in integrating, that you're not part of the partner program. The team would be happy to engage, and bring you on board, so-- >> (mumbles) on playbook, get the top use cases nailed down, listen to customers, and figure it out. >> Exactly. >> Great stuff Dave, we really appreciate it. I'm looking forward to digging in AppFlow, and I'll check on Jeff Bezos blog. Sure, it's April 22, was the launch day, probably had up there. One of the things that want to just jump into, now moving into the next topic, is the cost structure. A lot of pressure on costs. This is where I think this Migration Acceleration Program for Windows is interesting. Andy Jassy always likes to boast on stage at Reinvent, about the number of workloads of Windows running on Amazon Web Services. This has been a big part of the customers, I think, for over 10 years, that I can think of him talking about this. What is this about? Are you still seeing uptake on Windows workloads, or, I mean,-- >> Absolutely. >> Azure has got some market share, >> Absolutely. >> but now you, doesn't really kind of square in my mind, what's going on here. Tell us about this migration service. >> Yeah, absolutely, on the migration side. So Windows is absolutely, we still believe AWS is the best place to run a Windows workload. And we have many, many happy Windows customers today. And it's a very big, very large, growing point of our business today, it used to be. I was part of the original team back in 2008, that launched, I think it was Windows 2008, back then on EC2. And I remember sort of working out all the details, of how to do all the virtualization with Windows, obviously back then we'd done Linux. And getting Windows up and running, and working through some of the challenges that Windows had as an operating system in the early days. And it was October 2008 that we actually launched Windows as an operating system. And it's just been, we've had many, many happy Windows customers since then. >> Why is Amazon so peak to run workloads from Windows so effectively? >> Well, I think, sorry what did you say peaked? >> Why is Amazon so in well positioned to run the Windows workloads? >> Well, firstly, I mean, I think Windows is really just the operating system, right? And so if you think about that as the very last little bit of your sort of virtualization stack, and then being able to support your applications. What you really have to think about is, everything below that, both in terms of the compute, so performance you're going to get, the price performance you're going to get. With our Nitro Hypervisor, and the Nitro System that we developed back in 2018, or launched in 2018. We really are able to provide you with the best price performance, and have the very least overhead from a hypervisor point of view. And then what that means is you're getting more out of your machine, for the price that you pay. And then you think about the rest of the ecosystem, right? Think about all the other services, and all the features, and just the breadth, and the extensiveness of AWS. And that's critically important for all of our Windows customers as well. And so you're going to have things like Active Directory, and these sort of things that are very Windows specific, and we can absolutely support all of those, natively. And in the Windows operating system as well. We have things like various agents that you can run inside the Windows box to do more maintenance and management. And so I think we've done a really good job in bringing Windows into the larger, and broader ecosystem of AWS. And it really is just a case of making sure that Windows runs smoothly. And that's just the last little bit on top of that, and so many customers enterprises run Windows today. When I started out my career, I was developing software in the banking industry, and it was a very much a Windows environment. They were running critical applications. And so we see it's critically important for customers who run Windows today, to be able to bring those Windows workloads to AWS. >> Yeah, and that's certainly-- >> We are seeing a trend. Yeah, sorry, go ahead. >> Well, they're certainly out there from a market share standpoint, but this is a cost driver, you guys are saying, and I want you to just give an example, or just illustrate why it costs less. How is it a cost savings? Is it just services, cycle times on EC2? I mean what's the cost savings? I'm a customer like, "Okay, so I'm going to go to Amazon with my workloads." Why is it a cost saving? >> I think there are a few things. The one I was referring to in my previous comment was the price performance, right? And so if I'm running on a system, where the hypervisor is using a significant portion of the physical CPU that I want to use as well. Well there's an overhead to that. And so from a price performance point of view, I look at, if I go and benchmark a CPU, and I look at how much I pay for that per unit of that benchmark, it's better on AWS. Because with our natural system, we're able to give you 100% of the floor. And so you get a performance then. So that's the first thing is price performance, which is different from this price. But there's a saving there as well. The other one is a large part, and getting into the migration program as well. A large part of what we do with our customers, when they come to AWS, is supposed to be, we take a long look at their license strategy. What licenses do they have? And a key part of bringing in Windows workloads AWS, is license optimization. What can we do to help you optimize the licenses that you're using today for Windows, for SQL Server, and really try and find efficiencies in that. And so we're able to secure significant savings for many of our customers by doing that. And we have a number of tools that they use as part of the migration program to do that. And so that helps save there. And then finally, we have a lot of customers doing what we call modernization of their applications. And so it really embraced Cloud, and some of the benefits that you get from Cloud. Especially elasticities, so being able to scale for demand. It's very difficult to do that when you bound by license for your operating system, because every box you run, you have to have a license for it. And so tuning auto scaling on, you've got to make sure you have enough licenses for all these Windows boxes you've seen. And so the push the Cloud's bringing, we've seen a lot of customers move Windows applications from Windows to Linux, or even move SQL Server, from SQL server to SQL Server on Linux, or another database platform. And do a modernization there, that already allows them to benefit from the elasticity that Cloud provides, without having to constantly worry about licenses. >> So final question on this point, migration service implies migration from somewhere else. How do they get involved? What's the onboarding process? Can you give a quick detail on that? >> Absolutely, so we've been helping customers with migrations for years. We've launched a migration program, or Migration Acceleration Program, MAP. We launched it, I think about 2016, 2017 was the first part of that. It was really just a bringing together of the various, the things we'd learned, the tools we built, the best strategies to do a migration. And we said, "How do we help customers looking "to migrate to the Cloud." And so that's what MAP's all about, is just a three phase, we'll help you assess the migration, we'll help you do a lot of planning. And then ultimately, we help you actually do the migration. We partner with a number of external partners, and ISVs, and GSIs, who also worked very closely with us to help customers do migrations. And so what we launched in April of this year, with the Windows migration program, is really just more support for Windows workload, as part of the broader Migration Acceleration Program. And there's benefits to customers, it's a smoother migration, it's a faster migration in almost all cases, we're doing license assessments, and so there's cost reduction in that as well. And ultimately, there's there's other benefits as well that we offer them, if they partner with us in bringing the workload to AWS. And so getting involved is really just reaching out to one of our AWS sales folks, or one of your account managers, if you have an account manager, and talk to them about workloads that you'd like to bring in. And we even go as far as helping you identify which applications are easiest to migrate. And so that you can kind of get going with some of the easier ones, while we help you with some of the more difficult ones. And strategies' about removing those roadblocks to bring your services to AWS. >> Takes the blockers away, Dave Brown, Vice President of EC2, the crown jewel of AWS, breaking down AppFlow, and the migration to Windows services. Great insights, appreciate the time. >> Thanks. >> We're here with Dave Brown, VP of EC2, as part of the virtual Cube coverage. Dave, I want to get your thoughts on an industry topic. Given what you've done with EC2, and the success, and with COVID-19, you're seeing that scale problem play out on the world stage for the entire population of the global world. This is now turning non-believers into believers of DevOps, web services, real time. I mean, this is now a moment in history, with the challenges that we have, even when we come out of this, whether it's six months or 12 months, the world won't be the same. And I believe that there's going to be a Cambrian explosion of applications. And an architecture that's going to look a lot like Cloud, Cloud-native. You've been doing this for many, many years, key architect of EC2 with your team. How do you see this playing out? Because a lot of people are going to be squirreling in rooms, when this comes back. They're going to be video conferencing now, but when they have meetings, they're going to look at the window of the future, and they're going to be exposed to what's failed. And saying, "We need to double down on that, "we have to fix this." So there's going to be winners and losers coming out of this pandemic, really quickly. And I think this is going to be a major opportunity for everyone to rally around this moment, to reset. And I think it's going to look a lot like this decoupled, this distributed computing environment, leveraging all the things that we've talked about in the past. So what's your advice, and how do you see this evolving? >> Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, I think, just the speed at which it happened as well. And the way in which organizations, both internally and externally, had to reinvent themselves very, very quickly, right? We've been very fortunate within Amazon, moving to working from home was relatively simple for the vast majority of us. Obviously, we have a number of our employees that work in data centers, and performance centers that have been on the front lines, and be doing a great job. But for the rest of us, it's been virtual video conferencing, right? All about meetings, and being able to use all of our networking tools securely, either over the VPN, or the no VPN infrastructure that we have. And many organizations had to do that. And so I think there are a number of different things that have impacted us right now. Obviously, virtual desktops has been a significant sort of growth point, right? Folks don't have access to the physical machine anymore, they're now all having to work remote, and so service like Workspaces, which runs on EC2, as well, has being a critical service data to support many of our largest customers. Our client VPN service, so we have within EC2 on the networking side, has also been critical for many large organizations, as they see more of their staff working everyday remotely. It has also seen, been able to support a lot of customers there. Just more broadly, what we've seen with COVID-19, is we've seen some industries really struggle, obviously travel industry, people just aren't traveling anymore. And so there's been immediate impact to some of those industries. They've been other industries that support functions like the video conferencing, or entertainment side of the house, has seen a bit of growth, over the last couple of months. And education has been an interesting one for us as well, where schools have been moving online. And behind the scenes in AWS, and on EC2, we've been working really hard to make sure that our supply chains are not interrupted in any way. The last thing we want to do is have any of our customers not be able to get EC2 capacity, when they desperately need it. And so we've made sure that capacity is fully available, even all the way through the pandemic. And we've even been able to support customers with, I remember one customer who told me the next day, they're going to have more than hundred thousand students coming online. And they suddenly had to grow their business, by some crazy number. And we were able to support them, and give them the capacity, which is way outside of any sort of demand--. >> I think this is the Cambrain explosion that I was referring to, because a whole new set of new things have emerged. New gaps in businesses have been exposed, new opportunities are emerging. This is about agility. It's real time now. It's actually happening for everybody, not just the folks on the inside of the industry. This is going to create a reinvention. So it's ironic, I've heard the word reinvent mentioned more times now, over the past three months, than I've heard it representing to Amazon. 'Cause that's your annual conference, Reinvent, but people are resetting and reinventing. It's actually a tactic, this is going on. So they're going to need some Clouds. So what do you say to that? >> So, I mean, the first thing is making sure that we can continue to be highly available, continue to have the capacity. The worst scenario is not being able to have the capacity for our customers, right? We did see that with some providers, and that honesty on outside is just years and years of experience of being able to manage supply chain. And the second thing is obviously, making sure that we remain available, that we don't have issues. And so, you know, with all of our stuff going remote and working from home, all my teams are working from home. Being able to support AWS in this environment, we haven't missed a beat there, which has been really good. We were well set up to be able to absorb this. And then obviously, remaining secure, which was our highest priority. And then innovating with our customers, and being able to, and that's both products that we're going to launch over time. But in many cases, like that education scenario I was talking about, that's been able to find that capacity, in multiple regions around the world, literally on a Sunday night, because they found out literally that afternoon, that Monday morning, all schools were virtual, and they were going to use their platform. And so they've been able to respond to that demand. We've seen a lot more machine learning workloads, we've seen an increase there as well as organizations are running more models, both within the health sciences area, but also in the financial areas. And also in just general business, (mumbles), yes, wherever it might be. Everybody's trying to respond to, what is the impact of this? And better understand it. And so machine learning is helping there, and so we've been able to support all those workloads. And so there's been an explosion. >> I was joking with my son, I said, "This world is interesting." Amazon really wins, that stuff's getting delivered to my house, and I want to play video games and Twitch, and I want to build applications, and write software. Now I could do that all in my home. So you went all around. But all kidding aside, this is an opportunity to define agility, so I want to get your thoughts, because I'm a bit a big fan of Amazon. As everyone knows, I'm kind of a pro Amazon person, and as other Clouds kind of try to level up, they're moving in the same direction, which is good for everybody, good competition and all. But S3 and EC2 have been the crown jewels. And building more services around those, and creating these abstraction layers, and new sets of service to make it easier, I know has been a top priority for AWS. So can you share your vision on how you're going to make EC2, and all these services easier for me? So if I'm a coder, I want literally no code, low code, infrastructure as code. I need to make Amazon more programmable and easier. Can you just share your vision on, as we talk about the virtual summits, as we cover the show, what's your take on making Amazon easier to consume and use? >> It's been something we thought a lot over the years, right? When we started out, we were very simple. The early days of EC2, it wasn't that rich feature set. And it's been an interesting journey for us. We've obviously become a lot more, we've written, launched local features, which narrative brings some more complexity to the platform. We have launched things like Lightsail over the years. Lightsail is a hosting environment that gives you that EC2 like experience, but it's a lot simpler. And it's also integrated with a number of other services like RDS and ELB as well, basic load balancing functionality. And we've seen some really good growth there. But what we've also learned is customers enjoy the richness of what ECU provides, and what the full ecosystem provides, and being able to use the pieces that they really need to build their application. From an S3 point of view, from a board ecosystem point of view. It's providing customers with the features and functionality that they really need to be successful. From the compute side of the house, we've done some things. Obviously, Containers have really taken off. And there's a lot of frameworks, whether it's EKS, or community service, or a Docker-based ECS, has made that a lot simpler for developers. And then obviously, in the serverless space, Landers, a great way of consuming EC2, right? I know it's serverless, but there's still an EC2 instance under the hood. And being able to bring a basic function and run those functions in serverless is, a lot of customers are enjoying that. The other complexity we're going after is on the networking side of the house, I find that a lot of developers out there, they're more than happy to write the code, they're more than happy to bring their reputation to AWS. But they struggle a little bit more on the networking side, they really do not want to have to worry about whether they have a route to an internet gateway, and if their subnets defined correctly to actually make the application work. And so, we have services like App Mesh, and the whole mesh server space is developing a lot. To really make that a lot simpler, where you can just bring your application, and call it on an application that just uses service discovery. And so those higher level services are definitely helping. In terms of no code, I think that App Mesh, sorry not App Mesh, AppFlow is one of the examples for already given organizations something at that level, that says I can do something with no code. I'm sure there's a lot of work happening in other areas. It's not something I'm actively thinking on right now , in my role in leading EC2, but I'm sure as the use cases come from customers, I'm sure you'll see more from us in those areas. They'll likely be more specific, though. 'Cause as soon as you take code out of the picture, you're going to have to get pretty specific in the use case. You already get the depth, the functionality the customers will need. >> Well, it's been super awesome to have your valuable time here on the virtual Cube for covering Amazon Summit, Virtual Digital Event that's going on. And we'll be going on throughout the year. Really appreciate the insight. And I think, it's right on the money. I think the world is going to have in six to 12 months, surge in reset, reinventing, and growing. So I think a lot of companies who are smart, are going to reset, reinvent, and set a new growth trajectory. Because it's a Cloud-native world, it's Cloud-computing, this is now a reality, and I think there's proof points now. So the whole world's experiencing it, not just the insiders, and the industry, and it's going to be an interesting time. So really appreciate that, they appreciate it. >> Great, >> Them coming on. >> Thank you very much for having me. It's been good. >> I'm John Furrier, here inside theCUBE Virtual, our virtual Cube coverage of AWS Summit 2020. We're going to have ongoing Amazon Summit Virtual Cube. We can't be on the show floor, so we'll be on the virtual show floor, covering and talking to the people behind the stories, and of course, the most important stories in silicon angle, and thecube.net. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>LA from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Good afternoon. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 19 from Las Vegas. I'm Lisa Martin. Co-host is Justin Warren, the founder and chief, endless at pivot nine. Justin, great to have you. Great to be here next to me in the hosting chair today. Always fun. Let's have a great conversation next. Shall we? All right, please be a couple of our guests have joined Justin and me. I've got Dan Hubbard to my love CEO of Lacework and Ilan Rabinovitch, the VP of product at Datadog. Guys, welcome. Our pleasure to be here. Love anytime we can talk about dogs, even if there's no relation to the actual technology. Two thumbs up for me. So, but let's go ahead. I know that you guys have both been on or your companies have, but give our audience, Dan, we'll start with you on a refresher and overview. Lacework what do you guys >>sure. Yeah. Lacework we wake up every morning with a goal of trying to help our customers secure their public cloud infrastructure and, or any type of cloud native technologies such as Kubernetes or containers or any microservices. So our security company for the cloud and cloud native technologies. >>Awesome. Any long, give us a refresher about Datadog, >>Datadog as a monitoring and analytics platform for your modern infrastructure and applications. So micro services, containers, cloud providers like AWS. We're here at reinvent. Our goal is to help teams collaborate and understand the health of their business and their applications and their infrastructure. >>So how do you guys work together? >>So we recently announced a partnership and an integration of the intelligence and the data of all the risks and the threats that at least work as identifying, um, being, sending those, uh, automatically inside of the Datadog platform. So we're, we're putting the data that from our platform, uh, directly into obviously the monitoring the metrics, uh, platform, uh, Datadog's. Yep. And so, uh, what we, when we, we were pulling, um, that intelligence from, from Lacework into our, um, into our platform for our new security monitoring platform. In addition to enriching it with metrics from our infrastructure and application monitoring. Um, we find that a lot of the, a lot of times the first signs that something's going wrong might be a change in how your infrastructure or your applications are performing or a request that came in. And so if we're able to marry the two together, it's just a much better to get, it's a better together story. >>Um, give people much, much clearer insights into what's going on. The security has been a really tricky thing to solve. Well, as long as I've been in computing, which is longer than I can remember, but, uh, walk us through what does this extra visibility actually provide to customers? One of the big issues that seems to be that security is just too hard. So how does this make security easier for customers? >> So one of the big trends that we're seeing is that security and infrastructure were in the past very separate groups. Silos didn't men, many of them didn't know each other or talk to each other. But dev ops has become becoming a unifying force of data intelligence and infrastructure. You know, it's infrastructure as code. It's a little bit different like AWS for example, but it still is infrastructure. And so the combination of security and infrastructure comes together. >>When you get dev ops, some people call it secure dev ops, dev, sec ops, dev ops, whatever you want to call it. But really bringing those two together is finally the first time really where there's a meaningful connection at the data level. It allows you to actually combine both. >> Exactly. And so as all of these teams are taking advantage of infrastructure as code and other DevOps best practices, the security teams are looking at this and saying, how do I get earlier in the cycle? How do I make sure that code is enforcing this? Some scaling, you know, I'm scaling with automation, scaling with code rather than with people. Uh, and then as, as they start to do that, they realize that the data that's in the security silo and that's an application or infrastructure silo, uh, is actually very relevant to one another. Right? If a crypto miner shows up on your systems, the first thing it's going to do is spike your CPU. Um, the, you know, something like Lacework will also, you know, will, will detect that as well if we both look at both of those signals with detective faster. >>Yeah. So go ahead Justin. Sorry. This is a bit of it. That's the reactive side of, of security, which is, you know, there's a threat happens and you react to that, but part of DevSecOps or whichever term you want to actually use, part of that is act to actually shift left and try to get rid of these security flows before they even happen in the code, which is a lot of software development. I like to say that the first 80% of software development is putting the bugs in and the second 90% is taking them out again. So how do you help developers actually remove all of the security vulnerabilities before they even make it into production code? Yeah, >>so just like metrics and monitoring allow you to look at the quality of your infrastructure are very early in the pipeline. A security needs to go there also. Um, and it's, it's really, there is no time. It's just a continuous cycle. Um, early, what we allow you to do is to look at your configuration and check to see if your configuration is changing in a way that is leaving you at risk or an exposure. What's particularly interesting about this partnership is that quite often security people don't know enough about the application or the infrastructure to know if it's a risk. It's actually the dev ops people then now, so security people when when we send an alert many times to security person, they scratch their heads and go, I don't know if this is good, bad, or indifferent. The dev ops people look at it and go, Oh yeah, this is definitely okay. >>Yeah, that's the way our infrastructure should work. This is the way our application should work. Or they say, Oh no, this is a big problem. Let's get security involved. So doing that early is really critical and again, >> it's all about breaking down. I mean if dev ops was all about breaking down silos between Devin operations and and other parts of the business, dev, sec ops or secure dev ops or whatever we want to call it, is just bringing more people into the fold and helping security join that party, um, and get at things earlier in the cycle so we can catch it before it, you know, before, before there's a breach that's in the news, >>right? To be able to be predictive, which is, and then prescriptive, which is about a lot of businesses would love to be able to be, I'd like to get your opinion, Dan, on how cloud >>native cloud and the tra, the transformation of cloud technologies is changing the conversation within the customer base. One of the things Andy Jassy said yesterday is that transformation has gotta be driven from the top down like true business transformation. So that you know, a company is an Uber I's for example. Are you seeing that? Are these, are these, for example, what you're talking about with enlightening the DevOps folks in the security folks bringing them together so that they can be more collaborative? Are you seeing that come from more of a top down approach in terms of how do we leverage our data better, make sure that we have security and are able to securely extract insights from the data? Or is it still kind of from both ends? It depends on the, >>but he, it's, it's very diverse. Uh, what we see a lot is in large, uh, large companies that are migrating to the cloud but weren't born in the cloud. Every company they're buying is a cloud native company. So they buy these new companies and they look, everyone looks at the new company goes, wow, that's amazing. They can move so fast. They, they are, you know, super forward thinking and they're pushing code and are more efficient than us. We want to do that also. So it just kind of breeds the innovation and the speed from an M and a perspective. You know, in the, in the cloud native side, what we see is, it depends on your tenure as a company when you really want to take security seriously. You know, usually B2B companies take it more seriously in B to C for example. But it's usually, it's when your customers start asking you how secure are you, is when people start paying attention. >>We would like it to be before that. Right? And it's not always, you know, before that. Yup. I mean, I think it's from both directions. It depends on the size of the company and the culture, but you can't dictate culture. Right? So, uh, and a lot of, a lot of this, a lot of these silos and a lot of these sort of, these camps and fiefdoms that start to exist within organizations that have caused these groups to be separate. Um, they weren't necessarily top down. It's just, you know, it's a, it's human to human interactions. And so you, you, you can't just walk in and say, you must now be collaborative. Um, the executives have to beat that drum and help people understand why that's important to the business. But the folks on the ground have to actually want to be at one, want to be friends, want to talk, want to collaborate on projects, want to pull people in earlier. >>Um, and once they have that human connection, it's a lot more successful. So you have to do both. Yeah. Well, I mean what we're seeing is as it becomes more distributed and security is more centralized, you run to problems. So the people that are getting it right or are distributing security as close to those teams, whether it's a scrum team, a weekly get together, you know, whatever it is to get that human interaction together because you don't understand the application and what people are working on. How are you going to understand the risks and the threats in the models. So distributing it is really key and it's important those security teams understand the business requirements as well. Sometimes the most secure answer isn't necessarily the answer that actually serves their customers. Sometimes some, and sometimes app teams don't understand the trade offs that security people may understand. So it has to be, it has to be a partnership. Yep. >>You mentioned called change is probably >>harder than anything else, especially if there's a legacy organization. And Dan, to your point, a lot of the acquisitions they're doing are a cloud native companies who are presumably much fresher, maybe have a younger workforce. That's hard to do. Ultimately though, what a business needs to look at is legacy business. There's probably somebody in my rear view mirror is a lot closer than I might think that is more agile, more nimble than we are, has great technology and the aptitude and the culture to be able to move faster. How do you see some of these enterprises that you work with together? Let's put them in the context of they're an AWS customer. How are you seeing these enterprise organizations that are adopting and acquiring cloud native businesses? How are they able to pivot at the speed they need to use cloud technology, understand the security issues that they can remediate and really take that data to what it should be, which is a business differentiator. >>Yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of the times you run into the dev ops people say security slows us down. They're getting in our way and security says developers are insecure that, you know, we're totally gonna get breached. So, um, you know, one of our mottoes is you got to move with speed and safety. Um, as soon as you get in the way of anything. You know, typically the developer and the application's going to win. So you got to figure out where to get involved in that. And really big companies, what we've seen that are very inquisitive is they're moving the security to a central governance role, um, and maybe have tooling and uh, you know, some specialty teams and then they're distributing security baked as deep into the development infrastructure as they can. And then they have groups which kind of work together, uh, you know, broadly across that. >>So you can structurally set it up that way I think. And if you have the incentives right now, you know, nobody's looking to create a security breach, there are a vulnerability there. Gold engine engineers and your employees have your best, the company's best intentions at heart, otherwise they wouldn't, they wouldn't work, you know, work there. So they're looking to do the right thing. You just have to make it easy for them with, and some that's tooling. Some of that's culture. Some of that's just starting the conversation, not the day of the release started, you know, start it when the, when the, when the, when the first line of code is being written, what would it take for us to solve this problem in a secure fashion? And then everybody was happy to work together. They just don't want to redo things. You know, the, the, the day before the launch should have to, you know, be slowed down. >>Well that technical debt becomes a real problem. Right? Yeah. I think one of the great things about, uh, you know, our technical, uh, partnership and integration here is security in the past has always been just very binary. Are we insecure, secure? That's it. We're actually, there's all kinds of nuances around it and that's what lends itself to metrics. If, you know, what are our metrics? How are we doing, what's our risk? What's our exposures? Is getting better over time? Is it worse over time? So there's always the doomsday scenario, but there's also the, what's happening over time and are we getting better at what we do? And metrics really lends itself to that. And that comes right back to that, to that, uh, you know, some of dev ops philosophies of continuous improvement and continuous learning, uh, you know, bringing that into the world of security is, is just as critical. >>So you, so you mentioned, you've mentioned culture, you mentioned transformation, you mentioned metrics. So three things very close to my heart. Uh, we keep hearing this security is becoming a board level conversation. So a lot of this is very technical and, and DevSecOps is down here with the technical people, but that structure of the organization that you referred to and, and changing that structure and setting the culture that tends to come from the top level. And we heard from Andy in the keynote yesterday that that is very, very important. So what are the sorts of conversations you're having with senior management and board level from what your products do together? What does that look like from the board's perspective? So learning to manage risk, looking at how are we doing, how much of what of what you do is actually available to the board for them to make their job easier. >>I think one of the exciting trends is that compliance is cool again, right complaints. It's never a cool thing, you know, flight's kind of a boring thing. The auditors come in once a year, you know, you get stuck with it and the way you go. Um, but now compliance is continuous. It's always running and it's more about risks and exposures and Mia adhering to compliance via the risks and exposures executives get, ER, it's very challenging to explain things like Kubernetes and pods and nodes and all this technical acronyms and mumbo jumbo that we live in every day, you know, in this world. But compliance is real. Are we PCI, SOC two NIST, are we, are we applying best standards and best practices? So the ability to pull that in either via a metrics dashboard or through measurable things over time, I think is really key. As part of that. >>And similarly as, as, as filter moving, you know, whether whether they're moving new application, existing applications from, uh, you know, legacy or on prem environment into the cloud or building something from scratch. Um, it's, you know, visibility on compliance is important. We can bring that into our dashboards, into our, into the tooling that executives can look at over time. But also just understanding, am I done with the migration? Is my application there? Um, taking this nebulous thing that is a cloud and making it a tangible asset that you can look at and see the health and progress on overtime and Datadog has significantly sped up. Many of our customers cloud migrations, um, they often get stuck in a sort of analysis paralysis. Are we, are we performing the same as we did in the data center? I don't know. Uh, are we as secure? Can we move this workload and tooling like Datadog, like Lacework and the two together helps them put that into something concrete that they can say, actually, yes, we're ready to go. >>Or no, there's these three things we need to do first, let's go do them. Um, it's really challenging if for, um, traditional security people and this new world order because it's very ephemeral. Things change all the time. You know, it used to be like, I got five racks, I got 22, you know, 2200 servers. These are the IPS and that's it. Now it's like, what time is it? I don't know what I have, you know? So I think visibility's key, you used to be able to have a server that you might've monitored throughout your tenure at a company. Now you probably can't monitor it through the tenure of your lunch. Yeah. Yeah. >>Last question for you guys is how much do you see a lift or an impact from something the capital one data >>breach that happened a few months ago? You talked about, you know, B2B being more on it in terms of B to C, but we S we see these breaches that and many generations that are alive today understand to some degree is that in terms of getting insight into where are all of our risks and vulnerabilities and needing to get that visibility on it, do you see some of these big breaches as, um, catalysts for businesses to go, Oh, we have a lot of stake here. We don't really, and try to understand what the heck's going on and what we own. >>I mean, security has a very bad reputation of fear, uncertainty and doubt. And, you know, I've been in the, in the industry for a long time. Um, that said, you know, those moments do, uh, get up very high. Um, especially somebody like capital one who, who's one of them, no one to be one of the most sophisticated cloud security organizations on the planet. Um, so it certainly piques people's interests. Um, you know, I think people get carried away maybe on the messaging side of things, but you know, in order for security market to get really big, you have to have a big it transformation trend. You have to have a very diverse attack surface and you have to have the beginnings of breach. If you don't have the beginnings of breach, you spent all your time convincing people there may be a problem. And because there is problems that are happening almost every weekend are getting published. >>Um, they know many of them are, are, are being acknowledged. Uh, you know, publicly it does help, you know, it definitely helps the conversation. You know, I don't think that there's a lot more, there are a lot more breaches in the news off to some extent because there's a lot more tech companies using going through these digital transmissions, having tech news. I don't know that this is cloud versus not cloud. What cloud does, however introduces new concepts and new workflows that security teams need to understand and that application teams, they understand. And so this is where the new breed of tooling and education comes in, is helping people be ready for that. Um, and yeah, of course anytime there's a headline on, you know, the big on any of the big news shows, of course the first thing we're going to do is say, well clearly there's a, they're going to bring on, they're going to bring on Dan or you know, you know, uh, one of our security experts or somebody in industry to talk about how you prevent that in the future. >>And so it, it does bring some attention in our way, but it's, uh, I think that's great. It's just finding people that what's important. And one of the conversations we have with our prospects is, uh, have you ever had a breach before? You know, they're always going to say no, of course. But then you ask, how do you know, how do you know? How do you really know that? And then let's walk through how you would actually find that out if you did know. And that's a very different conversation than, Oh, my traditional data center, I would know this way. So it's just very different. >>Interesting stuff, guys. Thank you for sharing with us and congratulations on the integration with Datadog and Lacework. We appreciate your time. Our pleasure for Justin Warren. I am Lisa Martin and you're watching the cube live from AWS, reinvent 19 from Vegas. Thanks for watching.

(funky jazz music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hello, and welcome to theCUBE studios in Palo Alto, CA for another CUBE Conversation, where we go in-depth with thought leaders driving innovation across tech industry. I'm your host, Peter Burris. Everybody talks about the unbelievable explosion in the amount of data that digital business is going to generate. That's true. But there's an analogue to that, and that is the unbelievable explosion in software that's going to be created over the next decade. The difference, though, is that if you create data, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, different quality levels, but it's really easy to create really bad software, and bad software can take down a business. So as a consequence, every business, from the CIO down to the most lowly person in the organization, has to participate in the process of creating great software, either in the design or conceptualization standpoint, to a use standpoint. It's a very important topic and it's one I'm really excited about, and to have that conversation, we're joined by two great thought leaders in this space. Dominik Tornow is the principal engineer at the office of CTO at Cisco, and Sara Lynn Hua is a UX designer at Chegg, Inc. Thanks for joining us on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having us. >> So, Sara. Let's talk to you first. Tell us a little bit about Chegg. >> Yeah, so Chegg is an education technology company that provides both physical and fiscal services to students. >> Okay, great. So with that in mind, I want to come to this issue of the marriage of UX and the marriage of cloud native. Let's start here, what is UX? >> So UX stands for user experience design and user experience design is the process of creating a meaningful and intuitive experience in a product, like a software application for a user. >> So, cloud native. >> Well, cloud native applications, as we talked about, are applications that are scalable and reliable by construction. So in order to have a cloud native system, you need a system that is capable of detecting and mitigating load in failure, and you can basically say cloud and cloud native applications have as much in common as Java and JavaScript, or, if you want to avoid the bar fight, have as much in common as car and carpet. So cloud native application or cloud native systems have effects on your entire organization. >> So, Sara, as a UX person, a person who's really worried about having a, building software that is intuitive and useful for human beings, how do you think about the impact of cloud native? Is that something that is good, bad, indifferent? Where's cloud native at Chegg? >> So, Chegg is in the process of adopting cloud native principles. Chegg has three million subscribers and is actively growing especially in the international space, so obviously reliability and scalability are one of our highest priorities. We have a lot of different applications and we have a lot of different teams, so, due to a lot of different acquisitions, we're at different stages of adopting cloud native principles. >> So it's something that has immediate implications, not only as you talk to students and people who you are trying to inculturate to great UX design, but also in your business as well. >> Exactly. >> Alright, so let's get into this. Because there is a lot of excitement about cloud native and building applications faster, but as I said up front, it's not uncommon for people to build really bad applications fast. So, how does UX and cloud native come together? From your perspective, Sara, what do you think that marriage needs to look like? >> So I think a lot of what ends up happening with cloud native, adopting cloud native principles, is that user experience designers are sometimes left outside of that decision. We learn about it later on and there are lot of far-reaching implications of adopting cloud native principles that we normally don't think about from a design perspective, and one of them would be, we don't know to design for partial failure. If certain components depend on a service, and that part of the system then fails, then from a user experience perspective, a user using that component may have an awful experience, but we're not necessarily thinking about that in terms of reliability. >> So it's a reliability question, so some of the precepts of cloud native aren't recognized as potential constraints as you imagine the nature of the application, but still, you're still focused on translating user insights and user practices and user realities into design elements that can be built. But it starts with at least into design elements. You're trying to build the right application. Have I got that right? >> Mm-hmm. I think when we talk about how cloud native relates to design we also have to talk a bit about how designers and developers collaborate. >> So you've got UX folks that are really focused on building the right application. How does that impact the way cloud native developers have to start thinking? >> Well, if Sara is responsible for building the right application, I am responsible for building the application right, and there is, of course, there is a collaboration. There is a peer relationship between design and development, and design happens to be the first step in the process. So while designers uncover the requirements of the application, right, it is my job to implement these requirements. And in this case I am a service provider to the UX and UI designers, and I get to veto only on three counts. That is, if a certain design negatively impacts scalability, negatively impacts reliability, or, of course, negatively impacts security. Other than that, I only communicate the consequences. For example, consequences in terms of costs. So if designers lay out a few alternatives, design alternatives for an application, I can, of course, communicate, how long is it going to take to implement it? Or how costly is this solution going to be? However, it is, at the end of the day, the business and the design makes the decision. >> So if I think about it, if I can, just let me throw out kind of how I think about some of this stuff. I imagine you really focusing on the social dynamics that have to be reflected in the software, given, you know, human constraints and human experiences, and quite frankly whether or not people are going to find the system useful and meaningful and enjoyable to use, otherwise they don't adopt it, and I think of you in terms of the technology dynamics. So both of you are thinking about the underlying dynamics of how it's going to work. You facing the system and you facing the user. Have I got that right? >> Yes, you absolutely got that right. So if you make people happy, I make systems happy, and you see this is also a core conflict, right? So even though we are working on the same application, right, there is, of course, a lot of tension because we are pulling in two different directions. >> Mm-hmm. >> Well, you mentioned earlier what cloud native is and the idea, you know, all the things by design at the system level, but there are a number of techniques that cloud native developers are starting to apply. We talked a little bit about one of them up front, partial failure, that has to be accommodated because we're talking about a greater distribution of systems. One of them is eventual consistency. Historically we like to say, "Oh, when I tell the computer to do something, "it's going to do it "irrefutably and absolutely." But that doesn't work in cloud native. Talk a little bit about eventual consistency and what that's going to mean from a design standpoint. >> So for some applications, scalability and reliability may benefit, as you said, for applying eventual consistency. So eventual consistency, meaning that the effects of the last write converge in the different parts of the system at different times, right, and yes, while that benefits the scalability and reliability of the system, that may absolutely negatively impact the user experience. >> How? >> Well, for example if you have, let's say a sports app, right? So two users are using ESPN to get their sports updates on how the game is going, and these two users are getting information. If they're getting information from the same node then we don't have a problem, but if these two users are getting information from different nodes, there's a delay in when they get the game score. This doesn't matter unless the two users are actually sitting in the same room. So someone might get an update about this game way earlier that someone else might, and then they'll be like, "Oh, look at this, the Warriors just scored!" And the other person is like, "What are you talking about?" So once you have the use case of them being in the same room then that actually creates this negative user experience of someone assuming their app is slower. Something like that. >> I'm going to take that example and I'm going to add another one, because I think that this has significant importance when we talk about the implications. Let's talk about financial transactions. So we're, you know, stock trading. That, it shouldn't necessarily be that the fact that I'm a few thousand kilometers away necessarily puts me at a disadvantage, but metaphorically if my node is processing slower than your node and you get that information about what's happening with stocks faster than I do, then I'm at a disadvantage. That has a pretty significant impact, social as well as technical, on subsequent behaviors. So there's this notion of blast radius, of how those impacts affect not just a particular transaction at a particular terminal, you're going to have impacts in much broader social settings. Tell us a little bit about that. >> Yeah, so for blast radius, the way I like to look at it, is the parts of the system that are directly or indirectly affected by the failure of another part of the system. Would you say you agree with that? >> Perfect definition. So the blast radius being the parts of the system that are transitively affected by one part of the system failing. And even so we share the same definition of blast radius, our experience is actually very different. >> Mm-hmm. >> So let's talk a little bit about, for example, a recommendation service like in an e-commerce application or a video streaming service that takes my past behavior into account and recommends additional items to consume in the future. So, I would say in typical systems the recommendation service is a standalone service. Not many services depend on the recommendation service. Right. So if the recommendation service fails, for me the blast radius is very small. I may not necessarily want to get up at a Saturday night in order to fix the recommendation system. >> You, being the cloud native person. >> Correct, but the UX designer may have a complete different view of that. >> Yeah, so at Chegg, for example, we use recommendations to give our users certain parts of content, so users really rely on our recommendations to really master a subject that they are studying, and we have all these pages dedicated to just having recommendations for the user. You're studying math, great. Here's a list of practice problems that you probably should go through before your quiz. So imagine they're studying for a math exam tomorrow and they're up at two a.m. and going through these practice problems and bam! That recommendations module suddenly fails. That is something that keeps me up at night because the parts of this system that, or what I think about as parts of the system, are user flows and user interactions, and if we do not provide that service to that user at that time, it could result in them leaving us as a subscriber because of that negative user experience. >> So it's very clear today that we need to factor the practical constraints of the system as we do UX, but more importantly, we need to really accommodate the real human experience, those user interactions, user flows, in how we design the systems. It's not really what's happening today the way we want it to. Give us one simple step, Sara, we'll start with you. One simple step that you think would improve these two groups working together. >> Well, like I mentioned before, having those conversations with designers because when a company is moving towards cloud native principals, and towards adopting cloud native principals, and they leave designers out of the conversation, designers aren't aware that they need to design for partial failure. >> So get designers into those sprints early on in the system design and not just later on as you get close to thinking about what the user is going to experience. >> Right, exactly. >> That is, I 100% agree with that. It is first and foremost a conversation to be had, and you have to have this conversation on the very first step of the journey. You cannot bring in, whether UX or UI, designers at a late stage in time. You have to bring them in at the very first moment. And you have to establish the peer relationship, and you do have to understand that as a developer you are a service provider to the designers. >> And you know, I'll make a quick observation, and my quick observation is having been in this world a little bit. It's actually a lot more fun to think about the human element early on in the process. It just makes the constraints on the technical side a little bit more interesting and a little bit more meaningful. >> That is very true, I agree. I very much like the examples that Sara brought up because if you think about a cold-hearted technology, you would think about nodes that scale up, for example, in the example of the eventual consistency. You think of nodes to scale up but you do not think of the consequences. Yet, if you have this conversation early on with the designers, right, you see the consequence of what it does if your system scales, and you can actually apply simple remedies that have great effect on the user experience. In that case if there is geographical proximity to users you route them to the same node and you make the user experience so much better. It is very fulfilling. >> Sara Lynn Hua, Chegg. Dominik Tornow, Cisco. Thank you very much for being on theCUBE. Great conversation. >> Thanks for having us. >> And once again, I want to thank you for participating in another CUBE conversation. Until next time. (funky jazz music)

>> Announcer: From Austin, Texas, it's theCUBE, covering Pure Storage Accelerate 2019, brought to you by Pure Storage. (air whooshes) >> Welcome to theCUBE's day two coverage of Pure Accelerate 2019 from Austin, Texas. I am Lisa Martin, Dave Vellante is my co-host, and we're pleased to welcome back to theCUBE, here is VP of Strategy Matt Kixmoeller. Kix, welcome back! >> Thank you very much, happy to be here. >> This has been a, being shot out of a cannon. Yesterday and today, lots of news. First of all, happy 10th anniversary to you and Pure. >> Thank you very much, yeah. >> Tremendous amount of innovation, as Tara Lee said yesterday, overnight in 10 years. (laughs) >> It's a really fun time at Pure. Just something about the nostalgia of 10 years gets people, naturally, to start thinking about what the next 10 years are about. And so, there's just a lot of that spirit right now at the company, so it's almost like people are really charging into the second chapter with a lot of energy, so that's cool. >> A lot of energy, I think, all fueled by this massive sea of orange that has descended on Austin. >> Absolutely. >> So, four announcements yesterday. Let's start with Cloud Block Store, what you guys are doing with AWS, and kind of this vision of Pure's cloud strategy. >> Yeah, look, the cloud discussions I've had with customers here at the show have been awesome. And I think more than anything, people have realized that we've really built something very unique with Cloud Block Store, something that doesn't exist anywhere else in the industry right now. And, you know, if you look at kind of other storage vendors over the time, people have certainly taken their storage OSes and put them in the cloud kind of as a test-dev experiment, a way to try things out, but never really thinking, "I want to build something "that runs tier-one applications." And that was our goal from day one. We looked at the Amazon platform and said, they really built EBS, their block offering, as kind of a way to beat boot VMs, but it was really never meant for a way to run mission-critical applications. So they've been very open in partnering with us to say, look, let's bring this capability onto the platform. And we really rearchitected our Purity Operating Environment, and so, the whole lower half of that is really optimized for the AWS services to help customers move tier-one apps to the cloud. >> Was that joint engineering, or was it really mostly Pure doing that work? >> You know, it was Pure engineering in the sense that we wrote the code, but there was a lot of co-architecture work with AWS so we could fundamentally understand the basics of all of their services and how to optimize for it. And one of the big realizations and choices that came out of that was not to base the storage layer of this on EBS, but instead to base it on S3. And if you look at your average cloud customer, they really use S3 as the storage basis for the apps they build on Amazon, and so, S3 is the 11-nines durable storage platform there. And so our whole goal here was, how do you use S3, but still deliver the level of performance you'd expect out of a tier-one block environment? >> Well, when you read the sort of cloud storage press release du jour, you can't really get into the nuance, but if I understand it correctly, you guys essentially have architected, using AWS services, a new class of block storage that runs on AWS, but looks like Pure. >> That's exactly it. >> So you're essentially front-ending cheap S3 storage with high-priority EC2s, you've got some mirroring for rights to give it high availability, and again, it looks like Pure. >> Kix: Yep. >> So you win, 'cause you're making money on the software, (laughs) AWS is selling services, and the customer has a Pure experience. Did we get that right? >> Yeah, and I think the combination, the one-two punch, that's been very interesting for customers is not only what we're doing with Cloud Block Store, but the new Pure as-a-Service offering. And so, Pure as-a-Service is our as-a-service consumption mechanism that allows you to essentially subscribe to or rent Pure arrays from Pure in your data center, but it's a license that can go between on-prem and cloud. And so, imagine you're a customer that is mostly on-prem today, but you have that mandate, "I've got to get to the cloud." You might need more storage, but the last thing you want to do is commit to another three- or five-year purchase of a storage array that just puts off that cloud journey that much longer. So a customer can subscribe to Pure as-a-Service, they'll maybe subscribe to 100 terabytes, and we put an array in their data center right now, but a year from now, they decide they're going to move 50 terabytes to Cloud Block Store in Amazon, that's just a transparent movement, they're already licensed for it. And so that-- >> And there's already, oh, sorry, sorry. >> Kix: No, go ahead. >> There's already customers that are in beta with Cloud Block Store, is that correct? >> Correct, yeah. >> Lisa: Any interesting insights that you can share without giving away secret sauce? >> Oh, absolutely. You know, I think the thing that pleased us the most about the beta was really the divergence of use cases. You know, we created this, but there's always, you create something, and you don't know what people are going to do with it, right? And so, we have this goal of going after tier-one apps. Obviously, there's a lot of people that are just focused on migration, "How do I get the tier-one app from on-prem to cloud?" And so that was what I would say would be the dominant use case. But there were a lot of interested in test-dev type use cases. And really interesting, I think we saw it in both directions. So we saw some customers who wanted to develop their app in the cloud, but then deploy on-prem. We saw the opposite, we saw people that wanted to develop on-prem but then deploy in the scalable infrastructure in the cloud. And so I thought that was quite interesting. >> How much of the impetus to do that offering was hardcore customer demand, "We need this," versus, "Hey, we need to embrace the cloud "and make it a tailwind and not be defensive about it"? >> You know, I think when we looked at what was going to be the buy-in criteria for the storage array of tomorrow, fundamentally, this is it, right? People want on-prem infrastructure that's connected to the cloud and provides them a roadmap or a bridge to the cloud. And I think we've seen a big change in mindset over even the last couple years. I'd say two or three years ago, the mindset from customers was, "I'm all in on cloud." I think we've seen that soften, where they've realized that the cloud is not a panacea, it's usually actually not cheaper or faster, but it is more agile, it is more flexible, and so, a combination of on-prem and cloud is the right answer. And so, what does that mean from a storage platform? Storage is the hard part. And so, I then need a storage architecture that can support both on-prem and cloud and drive commonality, as opposed to having it be totally different architecture. >> Was Outposts at all a catalyst in your thinking on this, or was this happening way before you even saw that? >> No, we started this effort before that, but I think Outposts is a good example, I believe, of how Amazon is just getting serious about saying, look, we can't ask everybody to rearchitect every application for web scale. There are certain apps that it won't make sense to rearchitect. How do we bring those to the cloud in an efficient way? And those are really the types of applications and the first-generation Cloud Block Store is perfect for. You connect your existing on-prem app, move it to the cloud without changing it, and then maybe slowly you rearchitect parts of the application, you evolve it over time, but that's not a gate to going to the cloud anymore. >> I like the way you said it, you thought about what storage is going to look like in the next 10 years. And we've said this a lot, it's the cloud experience, bringing that cloud experience to your data is what storage is going to look like, you know, wherever it lives, is going to look like in the next 10 years. >> Absolutely, and I think the other real mindset shift I think we've seen is how people are thinking about truly running their on-prem environment more like a service. You know, if you look at, the key message that we had at the show here was really the Modern Data Experience, and defining for customers what that meant. And in a lot of ways, I've been in the storage industry for a little while, I think back, 20 years ago, the buzzword was utility storage. I think one of our competitors had that as their slogan sometime in the '90s. >> Yeah, right. >> And the reality, though, is when you talk to most storage teams, they just never did that. They still ran a bunch of arrays on a project-by-project basis, and it didn't look at all like the cloud. And so, now people have learned the lessons from the public cloud and said, "We really need to apply those on-prem "to truly bring our infrastructure together "into much more of a virtual pool, "truly deliver it on demand, abstract consumption "from the back-end infrastructure to give flexibility." And so, that's really what we're trying to deliver with the Modern Storage Experience, is to say, look, let's get out of the world of array-by-array management. If a customer buys 50 or 100 of our arrays, how do they take that pool of arrays and turn it into a block service, turn it into a file service, turn it into an object service for their customers, with real abstractions and real APIs for those services that have nothing to do with the back-end infrastructure? >> Dave: Mm-hm. >> When Charlie talked yesterday, Kix, about the Modern Data Experience, the three S's pop up. >> Kix: Yeah. (clears throat) >> Simple, seamless, sustainable. But as IT is getting more and more complex, and customers are in a multi-cloud environment, not necessarily from a strategic perspective, right, acquisition, et cetera, how does Pure actually take that word, simple, from a marketing concept into reality for your customers? >> Yeah, you know, I think simple is the most underappreciated but biggest differentiator (coughs) that Pure has. I was recalling for someone, you talked to Coz earlier today. I had a conversation about three weeks into the existence of Pure, (coughs) excuse me, with Coz, and we were just debating, I mean, this is before we wrote any code at all, about, what would be Pure's long-term differentiator? And I was kind of like, "Ah, we'll be the flash people, or high-performance, or whatever," and he's like, "No, no, no, we're going to be simple. "We are going to deliver a culture that drives "simplicity into our products, "and that'll be game-changing." And I thought he was a little crazy at the time, but he's absolutely turned out to be right. And if you look over the years, that started with just an appliance experience, a 10-card install, just a really easy environment. But that's manifested itself into every product we create. And it's really hard to reverse-engineer that. It's an engineering discipline thing that you have to build into the DNA of the company. >> Yeah, he kind of shared that with us, Lisa. He was basically, my words, saying, you don't ever want to suboptimize simple to get a little knob turn on performance, because you'll be turning knobs your entire career. There's a lot of storage arrays out there that, it's all about turning the knobs. >> Kix: Yeah, well-- >> If you can't fix it, you feature it. >> Oh, and if you think about really trying to automate something, it's really hard to automate complex stuff. If something's simple, if it's consistent, it plugs into an automation framework. >> You talked about "get your 10X"-- >> Kix: Yeah. >> I think, is that what you said? And an entrepreneur who was very successful once told me, "I look for two things, a large market and a 10X impact." >> Yep. >> So, what is your 10X? >> You know, we have two 10Xs at the show this year. So first was really kind of a 10-year jump in performance. When we first entered, people were used to 10-millisecond latency from disk, and we introduced them to one-millisecond latency. Now, with the shipping in direct memory and bringing SCM into the architecture, we can do 100 microseconds. That's another 10X. And so, it's hard to ignore that. >> Lisa: That's game-changing, as you said yesterday. >> (coughs) Exactly. The other is really around our next product, FlashArray C, which brings flash to tier-two data. And there, it's all about consolidation. Most people have not used flash to fix tier one, but their biggest problem now is tier two. They have less-important applications, but because they haven't optimized that, it's taking up way too much of IT time. And so, FlashArray C is, "How do I go "and basically consolidate 10X consolidation "at that tier-two level to really bring "sanity to tier-two storage?" >> And you've got NAM pricing, we talked to Charlie about this, that it ultimately should be a tailwind for you guys as NAM pricing comes down, as NOR fab capacity's coming online in China to go after the thumb drives, right, so that's going to leave the enterprise for all the traditional flash guys that we know and love. So that should open up new markets for you. Today, if you look at pricing for flash C class storage, if I got it right, I'm guessing $1, $1.50 a gigabyte. You see hybrid still at probably half that, 65, 70 cents. Do you see that compressing over the next, let's call it 18, 24 months? >> Absolutely, I mean, what we can do with this product is really bring out flash at disk prices. And so, if you think about the difference, I mean, what we now have in the product line is two platforms, FlashArray X, optimized for performance, at hundreds of microseconds of latency, but C, at a little bit slower performance, still in the millisecond range, can really get down now to those disk prices you just mentioned. And so, it fundamentally gives customers the chance to ask, "Can I really now eliminate disk from the data center?" You know, as I said in my keynote, that the slogan from Pure from day one has been "the all-flash data center." And 10 years ago, people didn't believe it. We were maybe leaning over our skis a little bit in doing that. It now really feels possible to go and have the all-flash data center. >> Well, I'll tell you, we believed it. David Floyer picked up on it early on, and he was-- >> Kix: Yeah. >> He was actually probably too aggressive with (laughs) his forecast. We missed the NAND supply constraints. >> Kix: Yeah. >> But now that seems to be loosening up. >> Well, and, look, one of the things that really helps us build the perfect product around QLC is the work we've done to integrate with raw flash. We cannot just use QLC, but we can use it really efficiently, and the challenge there is to make it reliable. It's inherently a less-reliable flash. And so, that's what we're good at, taking things that are less reliable and making them enterprise-grade. >> And your custom flash modules allow that? >> Yeah. >> Can you add some color to that? >> Basically, what we do is we source raw NANDs, put it in our system, but then do all the work in software to manage the flash. And so, when you have a less-reliable flash medium like QLC, generally, what you have to do is add more flash to overprovision and be careful writing to it. And so, when do it globally, we don't do it inside every SSD, we can do it across the whole system, which makes the whole thing more efficient, thus allowing us to drive costs down even more. >> Hm. >> One of the things that we have heard over the last day and a half from customers, even those that were onstage yesterday, those that were on theCUBE yesterday and those that will come on today, is, they talk about the customer experience. They don't talk about FlashBlade, FlashArray, they're not talking about product names. They're talking about maybe workloads that they're running on there. But the interesting thing is, when we go to some other shows, you hear a lot of names of boxes. >> Kix: Yep. >> We haven't heard that. Talk to me a little bit about how Pure has evolved and really maybe even created this customer experience that's focused on simplicity, on outcomes, that is, in your perspective, why people aren't talking about the specific technologies-- >> Kix: Yeah. >> But rather, this single pane of glass that they have. >> Look, when we started the company, I obviously talked to a lot of customers, and I found, in general, there was frustration with products, but they also just generally didn't like their storage company. And so, from day one, we said, how do we reinvent the experience? Of course, we have to build a better product, and we can use flash as kind of an excuse to do that, but we also want to work on the business model of storage, and we also want to work on the customer experience, the support experience, the just 360 view of how you deal with a vendor. And so, from day one, we've been very disciplined about all of that. Going all-flash was a key part of the product. Evergreen has probably been our quintessential investment in just, how do you change that buying cycle? And so, you can buy into an experience and nondisrupt the way they evolve, versus replace your storage array every three to five years. And then, I think the overall customer experience just comes from the culture of the company, right? Everybody at Pure is centered on making customers happy, doing the right thing, being a vendor that you actually want to work with. And that's not something you can really legislate, that's not something you can put rules around, it's just the culture at Pure. >> When we talked about Evergreen yesterday with a number of customers, including Formula 1. I said, "You know, as a marketer, "how much of that nondisruptive operations, "take me from marketing to reality," and all of them articulated the exact value prop that you guys talk about. It was really remarkable. And another customer that we talked to, I think from a legal firm here in the U.S., didn't even do a POC, talked to a peer of his at another company that was a Pure fan-- >> Kix: Yep. >> And (snaps fingers) bought it right on the spot. So the validation that you're getting from the voice of the customer is pretty remarkable. >> Yeah, this is our number one asset, right? And I mean, so when we think about, how do we spread the religion of Pure, it's just all about giving voice to our customers, so they can share their stories. 'Cause that's so much more credible than anything we say, obviously, as a vendor. >> You're one of only two billion-dollar independent storage companies, which, we love independent storage companies, 'cause, you know, the competition's great. How far out do you look and do you think about being an independent storage company? You've seen, as a "somewhat" historian of the industry, you've seen TAM expansion, you guys are working hard on TAM expansion now, new workloads. You got backup stuff goin' on. You got the cloud as an opportunity, multi-cloud as an opportunity. So you got some runway there. >> Yeah. >> Beyond that, you've seen companies try to vertically integrate, buy backup software companies, you know, a converged infrastructure, whatever it is. How far out do you think about it from a business model standpoint? Or do you not worry about that? >> You know, look, to put it in context a little bit, you look at the latest IDC numbers, we're maybe one-third in to the transition to flash, right? The world still buys two-thirds disk, one-third flash. That's a huge opportunity. We're now five or six globally in storage. That's a few spots that we have to go, right? And so, we're not at all market-share limited, or opportunity limited, even within the storage industry, so we could make a much, much larger company. And so, that's mission number one at Pure. But when we think beyond that, that's just a launching point. And so, you've seen us do some stuff here at the show where we're getting into different types of storage. The first obvious expansion is, let's make sure anything that is a storage product comes from Pure, and there's obvious categories we don't play in today. You saw us introduce a new product around VM Analytics Pro, where we're reaching up the stack and adding real value at the VM tier, taking our Meta AI technology and using to give VM-level optimization recommendations. And so, yeah, I think we increasingly understand that IT's a full-stack game, and so storage is maybe the hardest part of the stack, and that gives us a great base to work from, but we don't constrain our engineers to say, you can only solve storage problems. >> Geography's another upside for you. I mean, most of your business, the vast majority of your business, is in the U.S., whereas you take a company like some of these other ones around here, more than half their business is outside the U.S, so. >> Yeah, no, our international businesses, we've been international five or six years now, and it felt like the first couple years are investment years, and it took time. But we're really starting to see them grow and take hold, and so, it's great to see the international business grow. And I think Pure as a company is also learning to really think internationally, not just because we want the opportunity, but the largest customers in the world that we now deal with have international operations, and they want to deal with one Pure globally. >> So when you're talking, and maybe this has even happened the last day and a half, with a prospective customer who is still investing a lot on-prem, still not yet gone the route of flash, as you were saying, those numbers speak for themselves. What do you say to them? >> If they're not on flash yet? >> Lisa: Yeah, yeah, to show them the benefits. I mean, what's that conversation like? >> It's rare, to be honest, now to find customers who haven't started with flash. But I think the biggest thing I try to encourage folks is that flash is not just about performance. And when I look at the history of people who have embraced Pure, they usually start with some performance need, but very quickly, they realize it's all about simplicity, it's all about efficiency. And if they can make storage fundamentally simpler and more efficient, they free up dollars to put towards innovation. And we unlock the ability to drive dollars towards innovation, and then we drive storage to the new innovation projects, like analytics, like AI, et cetera. And so, we just try to talk about that broader opportunity. And I think that's the hardest thing for people to grasp, because the IT history has always been lots of ROI pitches that say, "Hey, this thing costs a lot, but trust me, "you'll make it up in all these other benefits," that no one believes. And so, you just have to get them to taste it to begin with, and when they see it for themselves, that's when it clicks and they start to really understand the ROI around that. >> Well, congratulations on 10 years of Pure unlocking innovation, not just internally, but externally across the globe. We appreciate your time, Kix. >> Thank you, we're looking forward to the next 10 years. >> All right, to the next 10! For Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE from Pure Accelerate 2019. (upbeat music)