(bright upbeat music) >> Greetings, brilliant community and thank you so much for tuning in to theCUBE here for the last three days where we've been live from Detroit, Michigan. I've had the pleasure of spending this week with Lisa Martin and John Furrier. Thank you both so much for hanging out, for inviting me into the CUBE family. It's our first show together, it's been wonderful. >> Thank you. >> You nailed it. >> Oh thanks, sweetheart. >> Great job. Great job team, well done. Free wall to wall coverage, it's what we do. We stay till everyone else-- >> Savannah: 100 percent. >> Everyone else leaves, till they pull the plug. >> Lisa: Till they turn the lights out. We're still there. >> Literally. >> Literally last night. >> Still broadcasting. >> Whatever takes to get the stories and get 'em out there at scale. >> Yeah. >> Great time. >> 33. 33 different segments too. Very impressive. John, I'm curious, you're a trend watcher and you've been at every single KubeCon. >> Yep. >> What are the trends this year? Give us the breakdown. >> I think CNCF does this, it's a hard job to balance all the stakeholders. So one, congratulations to the CNCF for another great KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. It is really hard to balance bringing in the experts who, as time goes by, seven years we've been all of, as you said, you get experts, you get seniority, and people who can be mentors, 60% new people. You have vendors who are sponsoring and there's always people complaining and bitching and moaning. They want this, they want that. It's always hard and they always do a good job of balancing it. We're lucky that we get to scale the stories with CUBE and that's been great. We had some great stories here, but it's a great community and again, they're inclusive. As I've said before, we've talked about it. This year though is an inflection point in my opinion, because you're seeing the developer ecosystem growing so fast. It's global. You're seeing events pop up, you're seeing derivative events. CNCF is at the center point and they have to maintain the culture of developer experts, maintainers, while balancing the newbies. And that's going to be >> Savannah: Mm-hmm. really hard. And they've done a great job. We had a great conversation with them. So great job. And I think it's going to continue. I think the attendance metric is a little bit of a false positive. There's a lot of online people who didn't come to Detroit this year. And I think maybe the combination of the venue, the city, or just Covid preferences may not look good on paper, on the numbers 'cause it's not a major step up in attendance. It's still bigger, but the community, I think, is going to continue to grow. I'm bullish on it. >> Yeah, I mean at least we did see double the number of people that we had in Los Angeles. Very curious. I think Amsterdam, where we'll be next with CNCF in the spring, in April. I think that's actually going to be a better pulse check. We'll be in Europe, we'll see what's going on. >> John: Totally. >> I mean, who doesn't like Amsterdam in the springtime? Lisa, what have been some of your observations? >> Oh, so many observations. The evolution of the conference, the hallway track conversations really shifting towards adjusting to the enterprise. The enterprise momentum that we saw here as well. We had on the show, Ford. >> Savannah: Yes. We had MassMutual, we had ING, that was today. Home Depot is here. We are seeing all these big companies that we know and love, become software companies right before our eyes. >> Yeah. Well, and I think we forget that software powers our entire world. And so of course they're going to have to be here. So much running on Kubernetes. It's on-prem, it's at the edge, it's everywhere. It's exciting. Woo, I'm excited. John, what do you think is the number one story? This is your question. I love asking you this question. What is the number one story out KubeCon? >> Well, I think the top story is a combination of two things. One is the evolution of Cloud Native. We're starting to see web assembly. That's a big hyped up area. It got a lot of attention. >> Savannah: Yeah. That's kind of teething out the future. >> Savannah: Rightfully so. The future of this kind of lightweight. You got the heavy duty VMs, you got Kubernetes and containers, and now this web assembly, shows a trajectory of apps, server-like environment. And then the big story is security. Software supply chain is, to me, was the number one consistent theme. At almost all the interviews, in the containers, and the workflows, >> Savannah: Very hot. software supply chain is real. The CD Foundation mentioned >> Savannah: Mm-hmm. >> they had 16,000 vulnerabilities identified in their code base. They were going to automate that. So again, >> Savannah: That was wild. >> That's the top story. The growth of open source exposes potential vulnerabilities with security. So software supply chain gets my vote. >> Did you hear anything that surprised you? You guys did this great preview of what you thought we were going to hear and see and feel and touch at KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2022. You talked about, for example, the, you know, healthcare financial services being early adopters of this. Anything surprise either one of you in terms of what you predicted versus what we saw? Savannah, let's start with you. >> You know what really surprised me, and this is ironic, so I'm a community gal by trade. But I was really just impressed by the energy that everyone brought here and the desire to help. The thing about the open source community that always strikes me is, I mean 187 different countries participating. You've got, I believe it's something like 175,000 people contributing to the 140 projects plus that CNCF is working on. But that culture of collaboration extends far beyond just the CNCF projects. Everyone here is keen to help each other. We had the conversation just before about the teaching and the learnings that are going on here. They brought in Detroit's students to come and learn, which is just the most heartwarming story out of this entire thing. And I think it's just the authenticity of everyone in this community and their passion. Even though I know it's here, it still surprises me to see it in the flesh. Especially in a place like Detroit. >> It's nice. >> Yeah. >> It's so nice to see it. And you bring up a good point. It's very authentic. >> Savannah: It's super authentic. >> I mean, what surprised me is one, the Wasm, or web assembly. I didn't see that coming at the scale of the conversation. It sucked a lot of options out of the room in my opinion, still hyped up. But this looks like it's got a good trajectory. I like that. The other thing that surprised me that was a learning was my interview with Solo.io, Idit, and Brian Gracely, because he's a CUBE alumni and former host of theCUBE, and analyst at Wikibon, was how their go-to-market was an example of a modern company in Covid with a clean sheet of paper and smart people, they're just doing things different. They're in Slack with their customers. And I walked away with, "Wow that's like a playbook that's not, was never, in the go-to-market VC-backed company playbook." I thought that was, for me, a personal walk away saying that's important. I like how they did that. And there's a lot of companies I think could learn from that. Especially as the recession comes where partnering with customers has always been a top priority. And how they did that was very clever, very effective, very efficient. So I walked away with that saying, "I think that's going to be a standard." So that was a pleasant surprise. >> That was a great surprise. Also, that's a female-founded company, which is obviously not super common. And the growth that they've experienced, to your point, really being catalyzed by Covid, is incredibly impressive. I mean they have some massive brand name customers, Amex, BMW for example. >> Savannah: Yeah. >> Great point. >> And I interviewed her years ago and I remember saying to myself, "Wow, she's impressive." I liked her. She's a player. A player for sure. And she's got confidence. Even on the interview she said, "We're just better, we have better product." And I just like the point of view. Very customer-focused but confident. And I just took, that's again, a great company. And again, I'm not surprised that Brian Gracely left Red Hat to go work there. So yeah, great, great call there. And of course other things that weren't surprising that I predicted, Red Hat continued to invest. They continue to bring people on theCUBE, they support theCUBE but more importantly they have a good strategy. They're in that multicloud positioning. They're going to have an opportunity to get a bite at the apple. And I what I call the supercloud. As enterprises try to go and be mainstream, Cloud Native, they're going to need some help. And Red Hat is always has the large enterprise customers. >> Savannah: What surprised you, Lisa? >> Oh my gosh, so many things. I think some of the memorable conversations that we had. I love talking with some of the enterprises that we mentioned, ING Bank for example. You know, or institutions that have been around for 100 plus years. >> Savannah: Oh, yeah. To see not only how much they've innovated and stayed relevant to meet the demands of the consumer, which are only increasing, but they're doing so while fostering a culture of innovation and a culture that allows these technology leaders to really grow within the organization. That was a really refreshing conversation that I think we had. 'Cause you can kind of >> Savannah: Absolutely. think about these old stodgy companies. Nah, of course they're going to digitize. >> Thinking about working for the bank, I think it's boring. >> Right? >> Yeah. And they were talking about, in fact, those great t-shirts that they had on, >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. were all about getting more people to understand how fun it is to work in tech for ING Bank in different industries. You don't just have to work for the big tech companies to be doing really cool stuff in technology. >> What I really liked about this show is we had two female hosts. >> Savannah: Yeah. >> How about that? Come on. >> Hey, well done, well done on your recruitment there, champ. >> Yes, thank you boss. (John laughs) >> And not to mention we have a really all-star production team. I do just want to give them a little shout out. To all the wonderful folks behind the lines here. (people clapping) >> John: Brendan. Good job. >> Yeah. Without Brendan, Anderson, Noah, and Andrew, we would be-- >> Of course Frank Faye holding it back there too. >> Yeah, >> Of course, Frank. >> I mean, without the business development wheels on the ship we'd really be in an unfortunate spot. I almost just swore on television. We're not going to do that. >> It's okay. No one's regulating. >> Yeah. (all laugh) >> Elon Musk just took over Twitter. >> It was a close call. >> That's right! >> It's going to be a hellscape. >> Yeah, I mean it's, shit's on fire. So we'll just see what happens next. I do, I really want to talk about this because I think it's really special. It's an ethos and some magic has happened here. Let's talk about Detroit. Let's talk about what it means to be here. We saw so many, and I can't stress this enough, but I think it really matters. There was a commitment to celebrating place here. Lisa, did you notice this too? >> Absolutely. And it surprised me because we just don't see that at conferences. >> Yeah. We're so used to going to the same places. >> Right. >> Vegas. Vegas, Vegas. More Vegas. >> Your tone-- >> San Francisco >> (both laugh) sums up my feelings. Yes. >> Right? >> Yeah. And, well, it's almost robotic but, and the fact that we're like, oh Detroit, really? But there was so much love for this city and recognizing and supporting its residents that we just don't see at conferences. You uncovered a lot of that with your swag-savvy segments, >> Savannah: Yeah. >> And you got more of that to talk about today. >> Don't worry, it's coming. Yeah. (laughs) >> What about you? Have you enjoyed Detroit? I know you hadn't been here in a long time, when we did our intro session. >> I think it's a bold move for the CNCF to come here and celebrate. What they did, from teaching the kids in the city some tech, they had a session. I thought that was good. >> Savannah: Loved that. I think it was a risky move because a lot of people, like, weren't sure if they were going to fly to Detroit. So some say it might impact the attendance. I thought they did a good job. Their theme, Road Ahead. Nice tie in. >> Savannah: Yeah. And so I think I enjoyed Detroit. The weather was great. It didn't rain. Nice breeze outside. >> Yeah. >> The weather was great, the restaurants are phenomenal. So Detroit's a good city. I missed some hockey games. I'd love to see the Red Wings play. Missed that game. But we always come back. >> I think it's really special. I mean, every time I talked to a company about their swag, that had sourced it locally, there was a real reason for this story. I mean even with Kasten in that last segment when I noticed that they had done Carhartt beanies, Carhartt being a Michigan company. They said, "I'm so glad you noticed. That's why we did it." And I think that type of, the community commitment to place, it all comes back to community. One of the bigger themes of the show. But that passion and that support, we need more of that. >> Lisa: Yeah. >> And the thing about the guests we've had this past three days have been phenomenal. We had a diverse set of companies, individuals come on theCUBE, you know, from Scott Johnston at Docker. A really one on one. We had a great intense conversation. >> Savannah: Great way to kick it off. >> We shared a lot of inside baseball, about Docker, super important company. You know, impressed with companies like Platform9 it's been around since the OpenStack days who are now in a relevant position. Rafi Systems, hot startup, they don't have a lot of resources, a lot of guerilla marketing going on. So I love to see the mix of startups really contributing. The big players are here. So it's a real great mix of companies. And I thought the interviews were phenomenal, like you said, Ford. We had, Kubia launched on theCUBE. >> Savannah: Yes. >> That's-- >> We snooped the location for KubeCon North America. >> You did? >> Chicago, everyone. In case you missed it, Bianca was nice enough to share that with us. >> We had Sarbjeet Johal, CUBE analyst came on, Keith Townsend, yesterday with you guys. >> We had like analyst speed dating last night. (all laugh) >> How'd that go? (laughs) >> It was actually great. One of the things that they-- >> Did they hug and kiss at the end? >> Here's the funny thing is that they were debating the size of the CNC app. One thinks it's too big, one thinks it's too small. And I thought, is John Goldilocks? (John laughs) >> Savannah: Yeah. >> What is John going to think about that? >> Well I loved that segment. I thought, 'cause Keith and Sarbjeet argue with each other on Twitter all the time. And I heard Keith say before, he went, "Yeah let's have it out on theCUBE." So that was fun to watch. >> Thank you for creating this forum for us to have that kind of discourse. >> Lisa: Yes, thank you. >> Well, it wouldn't be possible without the sponsors. Want to thank the CNCF. >> Absolutely. >> And all the ecosystem partners and sponsors that make theCUBE possible. We love doing this. We love getting the stories. No story's too small for theCUBE. We'll go with it. Do whatever it takes. And if it wasn't for the sponsors, the community wouldn't get all the great knowledge. So, and thank you guys. >> Hey. Yeah, we're, we're happy to be here. Speaking of sponsors and vendors, should we talk a little swag? >> Yeah. >> What do you guys think? All right. Okay. So now this is becoming a tradition on theCUBE so I'm very delighted, the savvy swag segment. I do think it's interesting though. I mean, it's not, this isn't just me shouting out folks and showing off t-shirts and socks. It's about standing out from the noise. There's a lot of players in this space. We got a lot of CNCF projects and one of the ways to catch the attention of people walking the show floor is to have interesting swag. So we looked for the most unique swag on Wednesday and I hadn't found this yet, but I do just want to bring it up. Oops, I think I might have just dropped it. This is cute. Is, most random swag of the entire show goes to this toothbrush. I don't really have more in terms of the pitch there because this is just random. (Lisa laughs) >> But so, everyone needs that. >> John: So what's their tagline? >> And you forget these. >> Yeah, so the idea was to brush your cloud bills. So I think they're reducing the cost of-- >> Kind of a hygiene angle. >> Yeah, yeah. Very much a hygiene angle, which I found a little ironic in this crowd to be completely honest with you. >> John: Don't leave the lights on theCUBE. That's what they say. >> Yeah. >> I mean we are theCUBE so it would be unjust of me not to show you a Rubik's cube. This is actually one of those speed cubes. I'm not going to be able to solve this for you with one hand on camera, but apparently someone did it in 17 seconds at the booth. Knowing this audience, not surprising to me at all. Today we are, and yesterday, was the t-shirt contest. Best t-shirt contest. Today we really dove into the socks. So this is, I noticed this trend at KubeCon in Los Angeles last year. Lots of different socks, clouds obviously a theme for the cloud. I'm just going to lay these out. Lots of gamers in the house. Not surprising. Here on this one. >> John: Level up. >> Got to level up. I love these 'cause they say, "It's not a bug." And anyone who's coded has obviously had to deal with that. We've got, so Star Wars is a huge theme here. There's Lego sets. >> John: I think it's Star Trek. But. >> That's Star Trek? >> John: That's okay. >> Could be both. (Lisa laughs) >> John: Nevermind, I don't want to. >> You can flex your nerd and geek with us anytime you want, John. I don't mind getting corrected. I'm all about, I'm all about the truth. >> Star Trek. Star Wars. Okay, we're all the same. Okay, go ahead. >> Yeah, no, no, this is great. Slim.ai was nice enough to host us for dinner on Tuesday night. These are their lovely cloud socks. You can see Cloud Native, obviously Cloud Native Foundation, cloud socks, whole theme here. But if we're going to narrow it down to some champions, I love these little bee elephants from Raft. And when I went up to these guys, I actually probably would've called these my personal winner. They said, again, so community focused and humble here at CNCF, they said that Wiz was actually the champion according to the community. These unicorn socks are pretty excellent. And I have to say the branding is flawless. So we'll go ahead and give Wiz the win on the best sock contest. >> John: For the win. >> Yeah, Wiz for the win. However, the thing that I am probably going to use the most is this really dope Detroit snapback from Kasten. So I'm going to be rocking this from now on for the rest of the segment as well. And I feel great about this snapback. >> Looks great. Looks good on you. >> Yeah. >> Thanks John. (John laughs) >> So what are we expecting between now and KubeCon in Amsterdam? >> Well, I think it's going to be great to see how they, the European side, it's a chill show. It's great. Brings in the European audience from the global perspective. I always love the EU shows because one, it's a great destination. Amsterdam's going to be a great location. >> Savannah: I'm pumped. >> The American crowd loves going over there. All the event cities that they choose are always awesome. I missed Valencia cause I got Covid. I'm really bummed about that. But I love the European shows. It's just a little bit, it's high intensity, but it's the European chill. They got a little bit more of that siesta vibe going on. >> Yeah. >> And it's just awesome. >> Yeah, >> And I think that the mojo that carried throughout this week, it's really challenging to not only have a show that's five days, >> but to go through all week, >> Savannah: Seriously. >> to a Friday at 4:00 PM Eastern Time, and still have the people here, the energy and all the collaboration. >> Savannah: Yeah. >> The conversations that are still happening. I think we're going to see a lot more innovation come spring 2023. >> Savannah: Mm-hmm. >> Yeah. >> So should we do a bet, somebody's got to buy dinner? Who, well, I guess the folks who lose this will buy dinner for the other one. How many attendees do you think we'll see in Amsterdam? So we had 4,000, >> Oh, I'm going to lose this one. >> roughly in Los Angeles. Priyanka was nice enough to share with us, there was 8,000 here in Detroit. And I'm talking in person, we're not going to meddle this with the online. >> 6500. >> Lisa: I was going to say six, six K. >> I'm going 12,000. >> Ooh! >> I'm going to go ahead and go big I'm going to go opposite Price Is Right. >> One dollar. >> Yeah. (all laugh) That's exactly where I was driving with it. I'm going, I'm going absolutely all in. I think the momentum here is building. I think if we look at the numbers from-- >> John: You could go Family Feud >> Yeah, yeah, exactly. And they mentioned that they had 11,000 people who have taken their Kubernetes course in that first year. If that's a benchmark and an indicator, we've got the veteran players here. But I do think that, I personally think that the hype of Kubernetes has actually preceded adoption. If you look at the data and now we're finally tipping over. I think the last two years we were on the fringe and right now we're there. It's great. (voice blares loudly on loudspeaker) >> Well, on that note (all laugh) On that note, actually, on that note, as we are talking, so I got to give cred to my cohosts. We deal with a lot of background noise here on theCUBE. It is a live show floor. There's literally someone on an e-scooter behind me. There's been Pong going on in the background. The sound will haunt the three of us for the rest of our lives, as well as the production crew. (Lisa laughs) And, and just as we're sitting here doing this segment last night, they turned the lights off on us, today they're letting everyone know that the event is over. So on that note, I just want to say, Lisa, thank you so much. Such a warm welcome to the team. >> Thank you. >> John, what would we do without you? >> You did an amazing job. First CUBE, three days. It's a big show. You got staying power, I got to say. >> Lisa: Absolutely. >> Look at that. Not bad. >> You said it on camera now. >> Not bad. >> So you all are stuck with me. (all laugh) >> A plus. Great job to the team. Again, we do so much flow here. Brandon, Team, Andrew, Noah, Anderson, Frank. >> They're doing our hair, they're touching up makeup. They're helping me clean my teeth, staying hydrated. >> We look good because of you. >> And the guests. Thanks for coming on and spending time with us. And of course the sponsors, again, we can't do it without the sponsors. If you're watching this and you're a sponsor, support theCUBE, it helps people get what they need. And also we're do a lot more segments around community and a lot more educational stuff. >> Savannah: Yeah. So we're going to do a lot more in the EU and beyond. So thank you. >> Yeah, thank you. And thank you to everyone. Thank you to the community, thank you to theCUBE community and thank you for tuning in, making it possible for us to have somebody to talk to on the other side of the camera. My name is Savannah Peterson for the last time in Detroit, Michigan. Thanks for tuning into theCUBE. >> Okay, we're done. (bright upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent! 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host for the theCUBE, a lot of great action here. A lot of great solutions. Great keynote. The future of cloud's going to be all about purpose-built software platforms, enabling more and more SaaS, faster performance with custom chips, all enabling great stuff. I have two great guests here. Who are going to talk about it from Accenture. We've got Karthik Narain, global lead of Accenture's Cloud First. Welcome to the program. Good to see you and Chris Wegmann, AABG Accenture Amazon Business Group. Technology leads senior manager. Thanks for coming on. >> Great to be here. >> I was commenting before we came on about Accenture's work you guys been doing with the clouds in my article, I posted before re:Invent!. Dave Vellante coined the term superclouds, which we kind of just put out there, but the idea that people can build really strong platforms that enable a new kind of Saas has been the big wave. Connect has been a great example. We heard on stage from Adam, the CEO. Chris, this has been something that's been a real change where it's not just lift and shift and refactor, it's build value in a platform and new SaaS capabilities. What's your reaction to that? >> Yeah, I would absolutely agree. We've seen this change over time. We've seen the lift and shift and modernize and it's definitely moved into the Superclouds. I like the term, but you know, we call them cloud continuums, which we'll talk a little bit about, it's about building these purpose-built solutions. I think if you look at the keynote today, you look at, everybody that was on stage. United and everyone talking about what they're building, their technology companies now, they're not just the business. >> You guys did some new research, coining new terms and Cloud First. What is this all about? What is this new wave you guys are talking about? >> Yeah, so John, you know, few years ago, when people talked about cloud, they generally meant public cloud. I think the definition of cloud is changing and expanding. And from now on, whenever people talk about cloud, it's actually a cloud continuum. It's a continuum of capability from public to Edge and everything in between all seamlessly connected by Cloud First networks, which means all the capabilities that customers used to get from one public cloud destination. They can actually access that across the continuum, whether that be in their own private data center, using the capability of cloud with AWS's Outpost and other capabilities. Or they could use the capability in their Edge location, whether it's their retail centers, their warehouse locations, manufacturing and so on and so forth. So organizations are using the power of cloud beyond one purpose and one destination, but more as an operating system going forward. >> Chris, what's your take on this redefinition of cloud what's your take on it? >> I think it's much needed. I think Andy kicked it off last year when he recognized the term hybrid. We all, who've has been around a while kind of chuckled because they finally said the word. But if you look at the keynote today, they just continued it. Adam picked it up and ran with it. If you look at all the services, Wavelength and all the different services, there's not a single customer that I have, that's just using EC2 or S3 right. They're using all these different services you saw today. You saw all the different services that United put up on the screen. That DISH put up on the screen. So yeah, it's how people and companies, if they're truly going to transform and truly use cloud to transform, you have to use the whole continuum. >> Yeah. And I think the continuum message is a good one because if you look at what the evolution is, that was interesting to. Adam went on and did kind of a history lesson in the beginning, it felt like I was in the Star Wars movie, like back in the old days. And then you kind of progressed. You had to be really elite to roll your own cloud. And the hyperscalers did that, you saw that. Now you still have elite technical people, but now it's general purpose, or purpose built. It's like having prefabricated platforms and open source. We've learned that why do you want to reinvent the wheel if you don't have to? So if I want a call center I get Connect, if I want to have a big plugin platform, I can still build on top of and have that SaaS unique application. This seems logical. This is new. (laughter) This is the continuum. I mean, it seems obvious now looking at it, but how far along in are people getting this. Karthik, what's your take on this? >> I think customers are getting it. They are looking at cloud more as an operating system for their future innovation. They liked the concept that they got from the public cloud, which is easy configurability, consumability and automatability of their infrastructure assets. And when you can get that capability as an operating system for your entire enterprise, and you could innovate across the spectrum, that's extremely powerful. We see companies accelerating their adoption to cloud, but we are also seeing over the last three years, a lot of that adoption was using cloud as a migration destination. But now with the power of the cloud continuum, where innovation is available, that so many new services that Adam launched today, you could use truly cloud as an innovation engine. And we're actually seeing that the clients who are using the cloud continuum for innovation are doing much better than the ones that are using cloud as a migration destination. In fact, they're doing two X to three X use of cloud for innovation and uplifting knowlEdge where they are actually using three X more cloud for sustainability purposes. So huge, huge value. >> Yeah, I mean, this is a great point. Great insight, because what you're saying is essentially you can't hide anymore. The projects are either going to be successful or not. You can see whether it's useful or not, and now you're tying cloud adoption and outcomes together. Where you can look it and saying, we need to make this outcome work. Not for building, for building sake. Those projects were discovered during the pandemic. Why are we doing that? So you can't hide that ball anymore. >> Right and everybody's got to do it now, right? I mean, you don't have a choice. The pandemic is now forcing companies to change. They've changed. And that the research shows that the companies that have truly adopted the whole continuum are doing much better than the companies that didn't. >> What's pattern in this continuum research you guys, what's the big takeaway that you guys have found in that study, in that customer experience that you're having. What's the big, Aha moment. >> I think there are a few things. Number one surprising aspect is that the companies that use cloud for a broader innovation objective, actually, were saving more than the ones that use cloud just as a cost saving initiative. That was a big, Aha moment. Number two, when you talk about all of this innovation that AWS provides, sometimes it's easy for organizations to shrug it off saying, this looks like this is only for the elite companies, or this is only for the digitally native companies to follow. But our research showed that the companies that were successful adopting cloud continuum, the ones that we call less continuum competitors, 60% of them are pre-digitally born organizations. And they were reaping the benefits and they were growing faster, saving more, being more innovative than all others. So this is truly usable across the spectrum of the G 2000 enterprise. >> Yeah, and I think it's a no brainer, but now that you have, customers are transforming, they have multiple clouds. You have AWS, Azure, Google cloud, people were trying to find their swim lane. We heard about skill gap shortage. We did some reporting on that, that this idea of multi-cloud maybe not, I can't hire enough people. I'm going to bet on this cloud, maybe use that cloud. How are people looking at that? How do you guys see that the cloud competitive continuum, or how is the cloud competition affecting the cloud continuum from a customer standpoint? >> Yeah. I mean, you got to look at it, do you use the whole continuum? You've got a lot of cases, you got to be on the same cloud, right. You can use the whole, you got to use all the different components, all the different services. So I think we are seeing customers that are picking one and starting with one and then adding others. I see a lot of my customers who are using multiple clouds, but they're using them in different business units, right? So they may pick one business unit to go deep with AWS on, they may go use another business unit to go deep on another cloud, right? So yeah, I mean, everyone is getting multiple, but a lot of they're starting with one and then adding a second one or a third along the way. >> Karthik, this is what I was trying to get out of my story. It's a hard, very nuanced point. But if you look at the success of say Snowflake and Databricks, all bet on Amazon and their superclouds, they are on Amazon, but they're now working with Azure as well, because why wouldn't you want to open up your market? >> Exactly. And even the industry companies that want to monetize their capabilities using the digital ecosystems are doing that. For example, Siemens wanted to bring all their capabilities in manufacturing and machine operating system into a platform called MindSphere. And they knew that their end goal was going to be multi-cloud, but they want to practice, leveraging the power of cloud with one platform. And when they created MindSphere, they started with AWS and they created that solution in the public cloud and private cloud also at the Edge by leveraging the power of cloud from public to Edge and proved it out. And once it started working and they were able to roll it out for customers. Now they are giving customers the choice to be able to use it in other clouds as well. >> Yeah Karthik, you mentioned earlier at the top of our interview about the platform of the cloud and Dave and I were talking on our keynote review. We did a little history lesson of when Microsoft owned the monopoly of windows, the system software, and they had the application suite with office, but they still wanted developers to build on top of windows. Okay. But now with cloud that's one big windows platform like thing. So the developers ecosystem is evolving. And so one of the things we're watching, I want to get your reaction to this. Is in every major inflection point in the computer industry, when new ways to build and write code rolled out, the application owners always wanted their software to run on the fastest platform. Speeds and feeds matter in these shifts, because why would I want to have my software run slower? >> Yeah. >> What is your reaction to that? >> Yeah, absolutely. And again, there's a lot of things that the industry is going through and we are pushing the envelope on digitization. And today's keynote. When you saw the CEO of NASDAQ talking about the technology bottlenecks that were preventing the matching algorithm to be finally taken to cloud. Now that capability that's available at with AWS is what is enabling that matching algorithm to be taken to cloud through the power of Edge. So there's so much technology innovation, that's happening. That's constantly expanding the boundaries of posibilities. >> I mean, that's exactly the point. And I wrote this in my story and it came out on the keynote today, which was Adam saying, the clouds expanding that's the continuum. If it's running cloud operations, does it matter what it is? I mean, it's, if you're at the Edge and you're running cloud, maybe cause you want latency, of course you want to have low latency. Why wouldn't you want outposts. Again, this is all cloud operations. DevSecOps data is now kind of cloud operationalized. That seems to be what's happening. >> Yeah, I think the developers love the fact that they can write for one and put it anywhere, right? And whether it's a EKS on Inside, I don't even know what you call anymore, the public cloud, right? Or all the way out at the Edge, right? You write it once, you can deploy it there and it makes their lives a lot easier. And you know, as you said, it's all about performance. So they get the best option. >> Well, We love having you guys on the theCUBE, Accenture. You guys have really smart, talented people, always great commentary. Dave and I were looking at reviewing the tape so to speak. It's not really tape anymore. It's it's digitally stored on a S3, but we were looking back at 2016 when we first started talking about horizontally scalable cloud and vertically specialized applications. If you look at the keynote today and squint through the announcements, Amazon's going to offer full horizontal scalability and vertical specialization at the app level with machine learning capabilities. This means that you need data to be horizontally addressable, which is kind of counterintuitive, but you're seeing all the success on data lakes and lakes. This is the new architecture. It's kind of proven now, what do you guys think? >> Yeah, again, the aspect of cloud is about democratised innovation. The first element is, even though there's so much infrastructure build-out and infrastructural elements where there's continuous innovation going on, the enterprises and developers are moving from Bivives built decisions to assembling and consuming options. And when they assemble and consume, they want newer and newer services to be available. That is very specific to their industry and specific to functions, whether it is supply chain function or manufacturing function or so on and so forth. For this, there are going to be specific data that is going to be required, or operational for that particular use-case. But the whole idea of predictive analytics and AI and machine learning and data science is about how do you find correlations between operational data for a particular capability, with things that in the previous world was unrelated. For that you need to bring all of this data together. Time will tell whether all the data is going to move to one location or is there going to be distributed computing of that data with more technology, but that's the role that data is going to play in these verticalized solutions. >> Yeah, I mean, that's awesome. I want to get you guys while I got one, a couple of minutes left. Advice to people that look into go this next level. They know the continuum is coming, you guys been providing great solutions and advice to your customers. For the folks watching, what advice can you give where they're just putting their toe in the water or want to go full in? >> Yeah, so, we found in that research that there were some common patterns that were followed by these continuum competitors, the ones that were succeeding or winning in the cloud. And there was namely four of them, the first one, and these four can be adopted by others for them to also win in the continuum. The first one was looking at the power of the continuum, how the technology is evolving and creating a strategy to take advantage of the evolution of the continuum. That's number one. Number two, this is about organizational change. So don't go about this change in a soft manner. There are elements that you need to change within your organization to imbibe this wholeheartedly. That's the second thing. Third thing is one common aspect that all the continuum competitors followed was they put experience at the forefront for everything. For their end customers. Last but not the least. This is a holistic journey and an enterprise wide journey. And this would require CSO level, CEO level commitment on a longer term to achieve this. So with these four things, most companies can achieve the successes that the continuum competitors are seeing. >> Awesome insight, Chris, real quick, 30 seconds. What's your advice. >> Chris: Don't be afraid. (laughter) It's pretty simple. >> The water's warm, come on in >> Yeah, come on in. A lot of gone before you, right? It can be scary. It can be daunting, right? A lot of services. Don't be scared to get in and go at it. >> Yeah, one of the jobs I love about being theCUBE host is, you talk to people many years earlier, you guys got it right at Accenture. Congratulations. You were deploying, you saw this wave of purpose-built before anyone else and congratulations. Great success. >> Thanks, thanks for having us on theCUBE. >> Okay, I'm John Furrier. You're watching us here live in Las Vegas, for AWS re:Invent 2021 coverage. TheCUBE, the leader in tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>>Hi there. Welcome to this cube conversation. I'm John Farah, your host of the queue here in Palo Alto, California in our studios for cube conversation and remotely drew showcase VP of product management at Dell technologies. This segment is about autonomous operations and moving beyond the hype into practice reality of what's going on in automation. Drew, thank you for coming on this cube conversation >>And great job. Thanks John. >>So, uh, uh, automation, autonomous operation, everyone sees the Tesla's a self-driving cars. We even heard words like self-driving store self-driving data center, self-driving cloud. It's kind of a buzz word. It's been hyped up a lot, but it's becoming much more of a reality as people start to think about how to automate a way the, the manual undifferentiated tasks and move the value into either writing better software or into operations. This is kind of a hot topic. Uh, why, why is it so hot right now? What's your take? >>Yeah, I think the answer to this lies really in the digital transformation that every company is having to embrace right now. And I use the word company, but everything I described here would apply to public entities as well. I have plenty of conversations with governments and universities and so forth. And the leverage that cost share that I've heard used before. If you're not a technology company and you don't think you need to become one, you're not going to be around for very long because every business to business, business to consumer, even consumer to consumer interaction is becoming digitized. And so, you know, making all those connections, digital based takes human talent. And that's really at the core of why this is a hot topic. You know, anybody who's going to try and hire that talent right now, or who's actively trying is going to tell you the competition is fierce. >>It's a sellers market, so to speak in terms of getting capable it talent. And so this topic of automation and autonomous operations has an incredibly pragmatic component to it because you can't hire your way through digital transformation. Uh, if you're an element of your strategy is going to have to involve making that talent more efficient. And so along with good business processes, automation is going to be a prerequisite to make any progress on your digital transformation within a finite set up of it talent. So, you know, to your question, why is it a hot topic? I, you know, look at every entities, digital transformation is going to dependent on, >>You know, you've been around, uh, seeing a lot of ways of innovation come and go. You know, every one has its own kind of like unique characteristics. Now we're seeing with this transformation, this digital transformation, a lot of things kind of coming together. So it's always been the classic people, process technologies, you know, the three kind of areas people talk about, but if you look at what cloud and now edge and distributed computing is bringing into the equation, companies are identifying competitive advantages to processes that can be software enabled or defined or automated and where their workflows are, the IP of company. So this is kind of like a new revelations. Like, I mean, Ross has always been great with your manufacturing, whatever that was in place, but now the scale of that in digital with the apps out there, this has been a big focus of the modernization of applications. What's your, what's your reaction to that? >>Yeah, no, no, very much so it's, um, you bring up an excellent point kind of all the focus and attention that corporations have given to these other processes for time now that you know, this, this whole, um, you know, online, digital digitize, modern operations model, if it's flowing into that as well. And you know, it's, you know, at the end of the day to, to the, some of the points that you made here, you know, are, are you and your whatever business or entity that you're supporting, you know, are you pushing out the lovers levels of features and capabilities that your internal customers or your external customers need at the pace and velocity that you need to that's, that's where competition is going to take place. That's where business is going to be won or lost. And so I think seeing an indexing of the processes around that and our customers starting to think more about that is critical. Just as much to your point, as you know, uh, you know, the, this technology strategy. Um, and, and how are you going to engage, you know, your customers through a, uh, uh, a modern, you know, digitize processes is important for the factory as the factory line for Ford motor company is in terms of how they're going to be interfacing with their customers. So, um, yeah, very, very timely. And certainly top of mind. >>Yeah. And a lot of CEO's and customers that you work with. I know you guys are having a lot of conversations. We've talked with you guys in the past, across all of Dale, actually Dell technologies, and it's the same conversation. It's distributed computing and automation, AI machine linear, all factoring in workflows becoming competitive advantage. Now we're into this autonomous phase, which is like self running or healing or all these new, new stuff. When customers think about this, and we've heard CEOs talk about strategies, don't touch the white hot core until you get to the edges first, put your toe in the water, different approaches to tackling autonomous operators. What sort of, um, strategies and results should customers expect as they go in and start jumping into the, into the, into the pool, if you will, you know, as they start, >>I'm glad you asked this question because the subject of automation gets lumped in with a lot of topics with similar, you know, buzzwords of AI and machine learning and self-healing, and self-driving while these technologies like that make autonomous operations. In reality, we run the risk of having the underlying technology, dominate the discussion, and that's not where it needs to go in, in, in my discussions with customers, they don't care if the underlying technology is machine learning or deep learning, you know, it doesn't really matter. They want to see tangible out. So, and so when we talk about the kind of results to expect, there's some pretty simple questions to ask is, you know, that I, you know, I engage with any CIO or any company, a person in an it operations capacity is, is my, is my team spending, you know, how much time is my team spending on updates or the updates taking place within tighten up windows? >>Is my team getting the root cause of issues faster? Is my team closing out tickets faster is my business deploying more applications per week, per month, per year. These are the kinds of things that really matter. I mean, this is where the rubber meets the road on this, and, you know, the way we approach this is as we deliver more capabilities and features in this space of autonomy, we're constantly engaging our customers in a before and after state to understand if we really moved the needle. And so we, we, we do collect data on this front to see if we are delivering tangible results. And you know, what we've seen just in the past year is when we do this and do it right, we're seeing issue resolution times dropping like 50 to 90%. We're seeing time spent on admin tasks reduced by like 85%. We're seeing operations cost dropped by a third, you know, applications being pushed out, almost doubling. So these are, these are the real benefits, right? If you, if you can free up and pull the human component out of some of these, you know, necessary, but not necessarily, um, you know, value added tasks, uh, in your day to day operations, this is the kind of results customers can see. >>I want to ask you about your recent event hosted by mark Hamill, but about the framework you guys announced. But before that, I want to ask you, I got your here about supply chain. I mean, honestly, Dell made, made its bones in supply chain and innovation going back to the early days, Michael's book is awesome and he talks about being successful. Um, but you started to hear words like software supply chain is starting to hear words like the word supply chain is now becoming lingua franca in business, not just on moving goods here and there. Digital supply chains are emerging and it's impacting developers because they have to secure them. And there's also mindset of an operational mindset, our systems thinking, uh, with as well as design thinking, but mainly systems thinking. So this is not for the, you know, supply chain geeks out there. This is like hitting me. And she, this notion of supply chain doesn't promise operations hit to the core of this. >>Yeah. It, um, yes, it should, because ideally what you're doing is your autonomous operations strategy is contemplating the fact that that supply chain is going to be fluid. Like, you know, and, and so, you know, just think about the, the, the, you know, the, the, the underlying infrastructure and the choices that you have being, um, on, um, on bare metal on VM, based on container-based, there's different distributions within that. We then start to think about, you know, how I might orchestrate that then the different platforms that we have there around configuration management or application orchestration, um, you're right. That supply chain does become pretty complex. And so, um, us as a, as a provider to customers that are having to do with that software supply chain, um, you, what we need to be cognizant of is the fact that, you know, we can't dictate that always, we have to assume there's going to be changes in there. And so that certainly does influence our approach and trying to make that as, um, you know, friendly to a heterogeneous environment that we know is going to change going forward. Awesome. >>And we're going to see more of that kind of thinking and apply into the people skill, skill development, and also software automation to offload that. But okay. Back to the event you guys had mark Hamill, who's, I'm a huge fan of star wars. Uh, the kid I master, um, represents the old guard, you know, let's do it now, looking at the cloud. Um, you guys announced that that event, this autonomous operations framework, could you talk about what that is and why is it important? >>Yeah, so to begin with, you know, if you had told me when I was watching mark Hamill as a child in a movie theater, that he would one day help me do my job, I would have gone insane. But anyways, um, that, that aside that, that autonomous operations framework, it's built around six levels of automation. And we can talk, take the cue from the society of automotive engineers and work that they had done around autonomous cars, but we believed that we needed something distinct for, for it. And, you know, it starts off with level zero, which is no automation, look at your there's a human doing absolutely everything. And you progress up through five subsequent levels of operator assisted, partial automation, conditional automation, level five, being full autonomy. There's a set of expectations with each of these. And look as you progress up the level of involvement of humans in the decision, and the reaction is decreased each and every step, and some might say, well, so what all you did is document a framework. >>Well, it's important to both our customers and then our internal teams that have to deliver this. And let me just elaborate on that a little bit. Why it's important to customers is that automation implies trust. As, as, as you know, you as my infrastructure provider Dell, do I trust you to automate something that is typically involved my own team, assessing what it is the problem to be and determining the remediation action. Am I willing to hand over the keys to that to you? Uh, you have to earn that and you earn that by progressing up through these different levels. And, you know, if I can't trust you with, you know, conditional automation, I'm not going to trust you with full autonomy. So the customer is, you know, there's a, there's a psychology that's involved here that they have to progress through these levels. And so you have to be deliberate, I'd say as well, you need to recognize that not all customers are going to progress through that at the same pace. >>So it's important that when we think about how we're going to provide this, yeah, we want to have an option for the highest level of autonomy as possible, but that doesn't mean all customers are going to be ready. So we need to think about, you know, how do you provide the N minus one and minus two levels of capabilities. So we're meeting customers where they are in terms of their comfort and, and embracing this idea of autonomous. And then, you know, for us internally, that's the customer's perspective for us. Then this is a, a great set of guideposts for our teams to think about how we advance. And so when we have a feature, um, that, that we're deploying and making available, let's say it's sort of a workload contention feature, right? We then think about that about, okay, how do we start to advance up through the different levels here? We know workload contention is an important problem, but how do we start to take the human out of that equation in a methodical way to advance them through these levels? So we give a suite of options to our customers to do without that. >>True. Talk to me about your reaction with customers. Cause I know there's a spectrum of customers that are leaning in, some are putting the toe in the water, so to speak somewhat more information, some are just looking at the architecture of how they're going to scale post COVID and then have a growth strategy for their business, what feedback you're getting, where are, how would you put the customer's mindset? Um, and, and can you describe the makeup of the customer profile for >>Yeah. You know, I would say, um, you know, there, you know, when we were talking about these six levels, there, there were about halfway up in general. If you, if you ask me to kind of do the bell curve, right. And in terms of comfort level, and we'll, we'll call it like partial or conditional automation there where it's like, you know, in general, it's like, okay, we, we, we know we need to take some of the humans out of this, but why don't we start by, you know, you recommending what the remediation is. I'll take a look at it and decide if I want to implement it or recommend the remediation and give me a button I can click to, to, to act upon it. So there's still some level of human checks and balances in there, but we've taken a lot of the grunt work out of it, so to speak, um, to do it. >>But that's where they are. They, they certainly aspire to move up again, back to this resource crunch, competing for talent than I can't keep hiring people to keep up with the work here and what they want to do is work with us to, okay, so how do I evolve this to start to prove it then? And this is where we can kind of go back to some of these things of the machine learning and so forth, where it's up to us as we think about how we design the systems around this is how can we start to observe how customers are responding to our recommendations? Are they always taking on, are they modifying them so we can get smarter in terms of what it is we're going to suggest and what we're just we're going to automate so that we're doing it around their values, not necessarily ours, that's a really important component here. This value based approach that we need to embrace, because, you know, you know, what, what might be considered an acceptable set of circumstances for a financial services company? You know, it might not be for a manufacturing company. And so that's something that we need to take into account in the overall design. >>Yeah. And also to your point earlier about meeting them where they are, is super important. And I think what's interesting, I've been watching over the past five Dell technology worlds, um, the tradition transition of Dell becoming much stronger and, and, and cohesive in each element of the end to end mix if you will, of hybrid. Um, and that's been a big boost. Um, and so as customers go, okay, I still got to get better. So they get, they're taking this way. And some, some customers, you know what I need to do more, but you guys are running these companies with your technology. So it's not like as easy, it's not a clean sheet of paper. In some cases, it is when you have new projects, they go cloud native and they just ended, they deploy, uh, and they have an edge and all that good stuff. But in terms of making autonomous operations real in terms of your roadmap, as you guys evolve, um, how close are you to having that secret formula? Or do you have the secret formula now? What is it? >>Yeah, so the short answer is, you know, do we have the, the, the secret sauce that we do? And, but that doesn't mean we're done like, so, so back to the framework, like nobody in the industry is at full autonomy. So let's just be really honest. There it's a, it's an aspirational north star that we, we all have to make progress to, but you know, what that means is you can take something that has a level of autonomy today. And let's take something like workload contention analysis that I brought up earlier, where, you know, we can identify where we've got workloads competing for shared resources that need to be redistributed. You know, today we flagged that contention and let the customer determine remediation. So, Hey, we're, we're letting you know you've got a problem. Um, you know, they're going to determine that remediation based upon their first hand knowledge of the environment and applying the values that they have to determine the best path, but, you know, our task is then to gain insight on that and how our customers are choosing to remediate, translate those into rule-based decisions for an explicit outcome that kind of advances you up one step, moving beyond rules. >>You start to understand more generalized outcome sot. That's a conditional automation. And then you move beyond that to get to a service level based objective, which would be high autonomy. So you're there, but this, this framework clearly calls out like this is a journey like there's no, you never really get to the end, so to speak. And that's fine, right? That, that Nirvana of full autonomy, we all should aspire to it, but we are going to be very, very deliberate in terms of how we take things like this and advance them up through the framework to make it more real. And again, give customers choice as they're willing to progress up through that trust will be there with an option for them when they, when they want to stay back with where they are, because that's where their comfort is. We'll be able to meet them there. >>Yeah. And I think also that be fair to anyone who may look at this as, you know, kind of like maybe future every, every customer you have is different operationally. I mean, you have, again, you mentioned financial FinTech, they're huge. If financial services area versus say, you know, classic enterprise, I mean, it could be insurance or whatever, a lot of legacy, and now new technologies coming in, this is all part of the, the opportunity is to kind of bring that together. Um, and it's not going to switch. >>Yeah, it is. And I'll just, you know, the one last plug for why I feel great about doing this as Dell technologies is I think about the, the breadth of what we cover in that environment, you know, with the, the breadth of our portfolio and the level of insights that we can have by kind of contemplating all the impacts across that typology that we span. Um, it's super exciting in terms of kind of what we can really unlock here in terms of value from an end date >>Drew. It's great to chat with you. I have one quick, more important question. Most important question is, did you get a selfie with mark Hamill Come on in every star wars? I mean, I'm a huge star wars fan, of course, star wars, star Trek are all on the same tier. Yeah. >>Uh, no, sorry. I missed out. I was, I was virtual for that one. So, um, although I probably could have done a screenshot on zoom or something like that and claimed it. So, but the >>Well great to have you on the queue. Thanks for your insight. I think this is a great area. Autonomous operations are moving beyond the hide, was seeing evidence in it. You seeing us the on clean sheet of paper, Greenfield opportunities, and then as it comes into the white hot core enterprise, um, even more trust is needed. Even more reliability track record you guys doing great work. Thank you so much for sharing on the cube. Great. Thank you, John. Okay. This is the cube. I'm Sean for your host for this cube conversation. Thanks for watching.

(soft music) >> Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Cube's covers of Splunk's dot com virtual event, their annual summit. I'm John Ferry, host of the cube. We've been covering dot conf since twenty twelve. Usually a physical event in person. This year it's virtual. I'm here with Claire Hockin, the CMO of Splunk. She's been here three and a half years. Your first year as CMO, and you got to go virtual from physical. Welcome to the cube. Good to see you. >> Thank you very much, John. Great. >> I got to ask you, I mean, this has been the most impressive virtual venue, you've taken over the hotel here in Silicon valley. You're entire teams here. It feels like there's a dynamic of like the teamwork. You can kind of feel the vibe. It's almost like a little VIP Splunk event, but you're broadcasting it to the world. Tell us what's happening. >> Yeah, it's been, I think for everyone a year where we really hope to be back to having a hybrid event, so having a big virtual component, but running dot conf as we had before from Las Vegas, which wasn't possible. So what we thought in the last six weeks is that we would actually bring the Splunk studio to a physical location. So we've been live all of this week from California, where we're sitting today and really thought through bringing the best of that programming to our, you know, our amazing audience of twenty six thousand people. So we were sitting here in a studio, we have a whole live stage and we've activated the best of dot conf to bring as many Splunkers as we can. And as many external guests to make it feel as real and as vibrant as possible. So. >> I have to say I'm very impressed. Since twenty twelve we've been watching the culture evolve. Splunk has always been that next big thing. And then the next big thing again, it seems to be the theme as data becomes so bigger and more important even than ever. There's a new Splunk emerging, another kind of next big thing. And this kind of says the patterns like do something big, that's new, operationalize it and do something new again. This is a theme, big part of this culture here. Can you share more about how you see this evolving? >> Sure. And I think that's what makes Splunk such a great place to be. And I think it attracts people who like to continually challenge reinvent. And I think we've spent a lot of time this year building out our portfolio, going through this cloud transformation. It just gives you a whole new landscape of how you unlock that power of data and how customers use it. So we've had a lot of fun, always building on top of that building, you know, our partnerships, what customers do and really having fun with it. I think one of the best things about Splunk is we do have this incredibly fun and playful brand and as data just becomes something that is more and more powerful, it's really relatable. And we have fun with activating that and storytelling. So, yeah. >> And you have a new manager, Teresa Carlson came in from Amazon web services. You have a lot more messaging kind of building on previous messaging. How are you handling and looking at the aperture of, that's growing from a messaging standpoint, you have a partner verse, which has rebranded of your solution of your ecosystem, kind of a lot of action going on in your world. What's the update? >> Yeah. It keeps us busy. And I think at one end, you know, the number of people that are using Splunk inside any customer base is just growing. So you have different kinds of users. And this year we're really working hard on how to partner and position Splunk with developers, but at the top end of that, the value of data and the idea of having a data foundation is something that's incredibly compelling for CTOs. So working really hard about looking at Splunk and data from that perspective, as well as the individual uses across areas like security and observability. So. >> You know, one of the things I wanted to ask you is, I was thinking about this when I was driving in this morning, Splunk has a lot of customers and you keep your customers and you've have a lot of customers that organically came into the Splunk through the product leadership and just great product. And then as security became more important, Splunk kind of takes that territory now. Now mainstream enterprise with the platform are leaning into Splunk solutions, and now you've got an ecosystem. So it's just becoming bigger and bigger just seems that the scale of the Splunk is growing radically bigger than it was, Is that happening? And what's your take on that? >> I think that's definitely a thing, John. So I think that the power of the ecosystem is amazing. We have customers, partners, as you've seen and everything just joins up. So we're seeing more and more dot joining through data. And we're just seeing this incredible velocity in terms of what's possible and how we can co-build with our partners and do more and more with our customers. So Splunk moves incredibly quickly. And I think if anything, we're just, gaining velocity, which is fun and also really challenging. >> Cloud-scale. And certainly during the pandemic, you guys had a tailwind on the business side, talk about the journey that you've had with Splunk as in your career and also for the customers. How are they reacting and what can they expect as Splunk continues to evolve? >> I think we're working really hard to make sure that Splunk is easier to use. Everything gets every more integrated. And I think our goal and our vision is you just capture your data and you can apply it to any use case using Splunk. And to make it sort of easier see that data in action. And one of the things I love from today was the dashboard studio. They're just these beautiful visualizations that really are inspiring around how data is working in your organization. And for me, I've been a Splunker for three and a half years. And I just think there is just so much to do, and there's so much of our story ahead of us and so much potential. So just really enjoying working with customers on the next data frontier, really. >> You have the Jedi Knight from Star Wars speaking, you had the F1 car racing. Lando was here, kind of the young Jedi, the old Jedi. The generations are coming together. You're seeing that old IT world, which relied on Splunk. And now you have this new developer real-time shifting left with security DevOps now going mainstream, you kind of have the confluences of these cultures coming together. It's not really clashing. It's kind of jelling. How are you handling that? How do you see that? What's Splunk kind of doing? Because I can see the themes, am I right? >> No, no. One of the stories from this morning that really struck me is we have Cal Poly and we worked with Cal Poly on their security and they actually have their students using Splunk and they run their whole security environment. And at the very top end, you have Walmart, the Fortune one, just using Splunk at a massive, incredible scale. And I think that's the power of data. I mean, data is something that everyone should and can be able to use. And that's what we're really seeing is unlocking the ability to bring, you know, bring all of your data in service of what you're trying to do, which is fun. And it just keeps growing. >> We had Zach Brown, the CEO of F1 McLaren Racing Team, here on the queue earlier. And it was interesting cause I was like driving the advantage with data, you know, kind of cliche, but they're using data very specifically, highly competitive. It almost kind of feels like a cloud kind of scale model because we've got thousands of people working on the team. They're on the track, they're competing, they're using data, they got to be agile and they got to be fast real time. Kind of sounds like the current enterprise's these days. >> Absolutely. And I think what's interesting about McLaren that the thing I love is either they have hundreds of terabytes of data moving at just at incredible speed through Splunk Enterprise, but it all goes back to their mission control in the UK. And there are 32 people that look at all that data. And I think it's got a half second delay and they make all the decisions for the car on the track. And that I think is a great lesson to any enterprises you have to, you know, you have to bring all that data together and you have to look at it and take decisions centrally for the benefit of your whole team. And I think McLaren is a really good example of when you do that it pays dividends and the team has had a really, really great season. >> Well, I want to say congratulations for pulling off a great virtual event. I know you had your physical event was on track and literally canceled the last minute because of the pandemic with the Delta virus. But it was amazing, made for digital TV kind of event. >> Absolutely, >> This is the future of media. >> Absolutely. And it is a lot of fun. And I think I'm really proud. We have done all of this with our in-house team, the brand, the experiences that you see, which is really fantastic. And it's given us a lot of ideas for sort of, you know, digital media and how we story tell, and really connect to our twenty thousand customers or two hundred and thirty thousand community members and keep everyone connected through digital. So this has been a lot of fun and a really nice moment for us this week. >> You know it's interesting, I was saying to the team here on one of our breaks, is that when you have this kind of agility with media to tell your own story directly, you're almost telling more stories there before. And there's a lot to tell you have a lot of successful customers, the new partners. What's the coolest story that you've seen. What would you share that you think is your favorite? If you could pick one or a few of them, what are your top stories that you see happening? >> So I've talked about Cal Poly, which I love because it's students and you know, the scale of Walmart, but there are so many stories. And I think the ones that I love most are the data heroes. We talk about the data here is a lot of Splunk and the people that are able to harness that data and to take action on that data and make something amazing happen. And we just see that time and time again, across all kinds of organizations where data heroes are surfacing, those insights. Those red flags, if you like and helping organizations stay on step ahead. And Conf is really a celebration of that. I think that's why we do this every year. And we really celebrate those data heroes. So across the program, probably too many to mention, but in every industry and at every scale, people are, you know, making things happen with data and that's an incredibly exciting place to be. >> Well you have a lot of great customers to, to use as references. But I got to ask you that as you go forward this year in marketing, what are your plans to take on this new dynamic? You've got hybrid events, you've got the community is always popular and thriving with Splunk at large-scale enterprises, global system integrators, doing business deals with you guys, as you guys are continuing to grow and grow and grow, what's the strategy? How do you keep the Splunk coolness going? Cause that's, you know, you guys are growing so fast. That's your job, is to keep things on track. What's your strategy? >> I think I look at that and just, we put the customer at the heart of that. And we think, you know, who are the personas, who are the people that use Splunk? What's their experience? What are they trying to do? What are those challenges? And we design those moments to help them move forward faster. And so that I think is just a really good north star. It is really unifying and our partners and customers, and every Splunker gets really behind that. So stay focused on that. >> Thanks for coming on the Cube, really appreciate it. Congratulations for great event. And thanks for having the Cube. We love coming in and sharing our media partnership with you. Thank you for coming. >> Thank you so much. And next year is your tenth year John. So we look forward to celebrating that as well. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Thanks for coming on. Okay it's the Cube coverage here live in the Splunk studios. We are a virtual event, but it's turning out to be a hybrid event. It's like a VIP event, a lot of great stories. Check them out online. They'll be recycling through so much digital content. This is truly a great digital event. Jeffery, hot of the Cube. Thanks for watching. (soft music)

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. >>Everyone. Welcome back to the Cube's virtual coverage of AWS Summit Online. Their virtual conference. I'm John Furrier here in the Cube studio for a conversation with Matt Garman, Vice president. Sales amount of AWS. We're here with our quarantine crew. Matt. Thanks for joining me. I know your remote as well. We're living in a virtualized world. Thanks for coming on. AWS Summit is now online. You're running sales and market for the company. This is really caught a lot of companies by surprise this this situation sheltering in place. It's highlighted a lot of scale problems. One of them is events. So we're here at the AWS Summit online, and you guys are still pulling it off A lot of content. Great to see you. >>Great. Thanks. Thanks for having me. >>So before we get into some of the announcements in the customer focus things that you guys are doing, you and I both met. We did an interview when you were running the EEC to you've been with Amazon for a long time, Got a storied history. You were there from one E. C two launched saw Amazon grow. This really kind of ties into some reporting that we've been doing where cloud native a scale of what advice became it really was a game changer and that showed the at scale opportunity for startups. And now the enterprise. This covert 19 is really showing companies and individuals their living it, of being disrupted, where the Internet and large scale tools and technologies can help them, but also exposes gaps in their lives or in companies, cases, things like provisioning VP ends. Maybe they didn't figure out 100% would be at home, but then going forward, the applications are now thinking about this new virtualized world. Even when it comes back to normal, be somewhat of a hybrid, you know, integrated world. This will put pressure on you guys as Amazon to build more capacity like you did with the see too, but at a whole nother level. So I want to get into that and more. But this covert 19 really has changed the game for the world. What do you guys see in your customer base? This is a big part of the conversation. What's going on? >>Thanks, John, And you're right. This is an unprecedented time for us, and on day eight of us as well as our customers are all trying to figure it out. I think you know, part of part of what we've seen from our customers as we talk out there, whether they're public service or private customers is is really that that demands that they're seeing from their customer bases are rapidly changing. Some customers have their businesses have seen much fewer lower demands and others before. But others they're seeing 10 21 100 x more business than they were before. And what we're seeing is that those customers that have their business running in the cloud are able to handle that on quickly. Our ableto adapt and change and grow with their changing customer base, and sometimes that's internal. Sometimes you're like you said. That's because, um, they need to scale up their VPN or they need to scale up their virtual workstations. Other times, it's customers who maybe they run a large call center business. But their call center folks are no longer able to come into the office, and they quickly spin up a virtual call center. We've seen our Amazon connect business really, really take off as customers quickly united to figure out how they can manage the actually increased call Williams they're seeing, but in a virtual location. And finally, we're just seeing some customers, whether they're from entertainment from communication or online education. Many of these businesses they're scaling rapidly wouldn't have been able to do it if they're running in their own data center. But because they're in the cloud, they're able to quickly spin up more instances, spin up more storage and meet the demands of their customers. So I think it's been nice to see. Fortunately for us, we've had many years, as you mentioned, I used to run the C two team on, and we've been thinking for over a decade about how we really manage that supply chain. How do we ensure that we're able to handle rapidly scaling? So we've really optimized our supply chain Unfortunately, in a good position where we can continue to operate, continue to scale and continue to handle the demands are growing customer base even unprecedented times like this. >>You know, you mentioned that I want to get into that concept. You wrote a block post the other day on the Amazon Day one blawg keeping organizations running during Covad 19 and you kind of teased out this point about average connected time. And if you think about this crisis, this really is that the true test for scale and elasticity of having that cloud model and some of the clouds have not done as well as Amazon. There's been some stories out there. Google and Microsoft has had the up time you guys had, but this really has been the future pulled forward. So you guys have a lot of customers like Netflix like slack, that are really taken advantage of this. This is the true test of cloud and only the beginning again. Like I said, this is going to show a lot of gaps in most other traditional enterprises. But this highlights the tests that you guys were waiting for. I won't say that you're waiting for a crisis, but cloud, this is ultimately the test. Your thoughts on Netflix, who Lou Slack, A bunch of other names land and he throws the slide. But we have re invent. But the >>big I think if you look at, obviously we have a lot more time at home, right? I'm at home here in Seattle. A lot of us are spending more time at home. And so a lot of the streaming services like you said, the Netflix is the who lose that Disney Pluses of the world. Also games. Think about how many kids were playing fortnight or playing a or the video games. A lot of those businesses have really seen an increase in their demand on they have been able to just seamlessly scale along with eight of us on the work side. Think about everybody from slack that runs entirely on AWS Zoom, who runs the vast majority of their infrastructure and aws all of these communication on work from home capabilities. These are all running on AWS enabled many of the scale, and we think all of our kids, our kids are all trying to figure out what a school look like. You don't actually go to school. I was talking from the team at Blackboard. They've seen a 10 sometimes even 100 X increase in their business. America will just seamlessly scale up on demand. I mean, really overnight just exploded. >>I was on Twitter just the other day, talking with some folks because the whole jet, I think, is going down. I was gonna wing of my normal commentary. Um and this is the public sector challenge as well. You mentioned schools. These air traditionally? No, I t or enterprise like chops. They need scale now. They need it fast. They have to stand up. I imagine this is the kind of scenario that this is also gonna hit the small, medium sized enterprises as well as some of the big ones. So the big guys have legacy problems, data silos, whatever we've had, great. Comes with some of your team members there. But that's just one sector. You got small, medium size enterprises that don't have any I t public sector and education. They're gonna be in market in months, if not >>tomorrow. Public sector is a super interesting one. And, frankly, our public sector team I don't know that they have slept in the past three months working to try to help governments, both the United States and internationally, everything from me. If you think about it, our our unemployment systems in states across the United States have gone from something like 3% unemployment claims to 15% unemployment claims within a two month period. Those systems are not meant to scale like that, and they reached out to us pretty quickly to see how we could help them start to scale. You think about some of the the systems that are trying to send out checks to people, systems that are trying to send out small making loans to folks. We've been really working deeply with many of those government agencies to try to figure out how we can get the money in the hands of the individuals that need it as quickly as possible and really help those legacy systems. Sometimes they're built on, you know, legacy databases or Oracle's or Microsoft sequel systems. And those things just aren't scaling. And they're trying to figure out How can they get to a more modern architecture that can really keep scaling with the needs of the new demand that they're reaching? It's just something that didn't anticipate before. >>Yeah, and I think your customers, as you're now going to be overseeing the larger global organization, sales and marketing, um, it's not like you guys are preaching to the customers because you're living through the same crisis in an environment that they are. You certainly can align with their empathy and certainly help them solve problems. But now we're in a business climate where we're seeing unemployment numbers of massive numbers. Usually companies come out of these challenges, and we think it could be highly accelerated on an upward trajectory, flat or negative. In 2008. That crisis we saw the winners come out of that one. You guys rode that wave with AWS. Easy to can. You know that world now coming out of this next pandemic, it's going to be hybrid or virtualization of meat of life. >>How are >>you leading your team? How are you talking to customers? I'm out of this empathy, but you got to run an organization. You have to still sell services and market your products You got reinvent was a physical event. I mean, >>these air, >>huge challenges you're living them to. What's your >>take on >>all this? >>Yeah, part of I think you know, in my new role. And as you mentioned, I used to run the computing with AWS, including easy to many compute services for about 13 years before coming and running. Now the sales and marketing, or AWS >>and And in >>that role, you know, a lot of what I would think about is how we really help our customers understand how critical it >>is to the >>her hair. The cloud gives you just so much more flexibility, so much more agility. And we would you know, there's a bunch of the early adopters would lead into that and really got it. And once they got onto the cloud, they saw their innovation level went up, their agility goes up all those things. But, you know, there was still a lot of folks that were they're interested. I mean, we obviously have, ah, decent sized business today and many, many millions of customers that are using the cloud today. But some of them are have been slower to kind of fully adopt and really move all of their business critical workloads to the cloud. I firmly believe that coming out of this crisis, you're gonna have two types of of businesses. You're gonna have some that just go into their shell, right? They're just going to say I'm just gonna try to survive. I'm just gonna try that to get by, going to try to conserve every little bit of something. I can just protect what I have. You know, I don't think those are long term. I'm not optimistic of. Those are going to be the businesses that right. I think every time you see a crisis, you have businesses that lean into it. They're smart about it. They think about long term. What are the things that are going to help me compete in this new world? And I think Cloud is gonna be one of those things. We've talked to everybody from airlines to traditional Fortune 500 enterprises, and they see that like they're still leaning into the cloud, even even airlines. No one's been hit harder than the airlines. And even I've talked to several executives and airlines their saying Look, my cloud initiative, that's the thing I'm not cutting. I'm gonna cut everything else. But this is the thing that's gonna let me succeed when I really get into that new world. And so I really think you're going to see some of those folks that maybe you were hesitant before so again in the next 34 years. Maybe I'll get to the cloud. I really think that they're going to start to lead in because they're going to realize if my competitors or in the cloud and I'm not that is gonna be a significant disadvantage and, you know, knock on wood. Hopefully, there's no other global pandemic, but they have to deal with. But I think it just really highlights any uncertainty in the world. There's going to be differences and they just are unable to deal with to the flexibility and the scale that they want to go up and down, by the way that they're unable to really handle whatever the world throws up. But I think we're going to be living in a continually uncertain environment. >>Yeah, I definitely would agree with you, and I think it's going to get back to normal at some point, but even is gonna have an impact into 2021 as many people are kind of figuring out the window, people saying no spring 2021 Maybe, you know, there we started get some semblance of normality the way it was, but still that environment and this brings up the whole summit online that you guys are doing. Your summits have been a great set of events. We've covered many of them with the real key physical cube. Now we're doing the Virtual Cube. They've been a practitioner and user, the developer builder event. It's a free event. Nutrition had. Now you have them all over the world. They're going on virtual. People still need to build out these projects. There's still a demand, and some projects are being cut. Some are, as you guys look over the horizon with your customer base conversations around what to fund whatnot the fund. As you mentioned. What are some of the things that you're seeing and recommending to customers that they should continue to double down on? Because smart manager is going to step back and say, Hey, I can see some gaps. We're going to double down on that and we're gonna kill that. We're gonna move this over here. There's going to be a reinvention and growth strategy that they have to figure out quickly. There's no yet playbooks emerging, but it's clear out the video virtual interactions. But those projects get double down your thoughts on the customer builders out there. >>I think that's absolutely right in it and expands every industry you can think about. Think about, you know, I was talking Teoh several customers in the healthcare space. And how long has it been five years that people have been touting that telemedicine is really gonna be that thing that eventually comes and eventually becomes a big thing? This has really accelerated that, such that. Now I've talked to probably dozens and dozens of people who, for the very first time of talk to their doctors over being their cell phone because they don't want to go into the hospital for you're getting, you know, six or something like that. Then they just have a minor medical things you need to do. Telemedicine is one of those things that is really taking off, and there's been really enabling, frankly, that customers have been able to do telemedicine. That's really helps, knows that that wanted to stay safe but also get good medical advice. I think that's just one example where we're gonna continue to see this go. I think coming out of this the other thing, our custom, lot of our customers were thinking about, and anytime you really go into an uncertain economic world. You want to think about capital preservation. Now is not the time you want to go spend money to build your own data center or to buy your own servers. If ever there was a time where the cloud makes the most sense, capital preservation >>is E >>particularly we don't know if there's gonna be an economic recession. We don't know how long this is going to take. All businesses, whether they're severely impacted, should be really thinking about that capital preservation. But they've also got to be thinking about how they innovate. You know, I've talked to ah, popular ride sharing customer the other day, and they were talking about how ride sharing his way down. But they're still using this as a time to lean forward into innovation because they know coming out of this, they want to be ahead of where their competitors are going to be. And they really want to use this as an opportunity to take their own internal teams, focus them on where they think the biggest potential is gonna be. And then once the economy turns around people out and about again, they can hit the accelerator and really take off. So I think that's really how a lot of our customers were thinking about situation where they're right now. >>You know, you guys haven't had a steep learning curve over the years with cloud and cloud scale. I think as the world comes in, the human capital piece becomes interesting, too, not just on of spending with money, monetary, the human capital to work, how people are contributing. So this brings up the whole reinvention. It's funny to watch as people are forced with these first generation problems of how to make things digital, how to get scale going. You have people who have learned it, have a learning curve, and again there's no compression algorithm for experience, as you guys like to point out. So >>this is >>creating this kind of like, How do I change the roles of my company? And so I want to get your thoughts because we're looking for proof points because a lot of the answers are not yet evolved and usually things they're not understood before they become mainstream. But people have to react really fast. What are some examples? Can you give around how Cove in applications are rolling out because that's truly a indicator in my mind of what people are doing with the cloud. Because Covert was an instant response. We've already interviewed a few folks that are on Amazon around Covitz Solutions, where the standing of either analytics or doing some things Could you use the covert of example of how rapid deployment or reinvention of data or business models our rendering themselves? >>Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a couple of different what one is. But for the very first thing that most people look at is how do we get data like we just need to find data around this space. And so we've worked with a number of partners and customers on How do we really go, help build Data Lakes in the cloud and coming getting all that data in one place so that both governments as well as private enterprises, can really start to think of that Data slices in different ways on get to look at what is the actual data, whether it's one of the number of hospital that's available one of the number of tests that are happening, you know, one of the number of oh infections that we're seeing, where the rate of change, etcetera. We also work with a number of our analytics partners, and we have a wide range of analytics partners that are really taking this as an opportunity where they can rapidly then take that data and slice it a number of different ways to try to help understand how they respond. I think you know, the first part of that was on the healthcare side where folks were saying, Where do we need enough ventilators? Where we where do we need to go? Build hospitals? Are we start to identify hot spots right where I see if you can really look at kind of second order derivatives of kind of changes, and you can look at it close enough, you could say, Oh, there's a hot spot popping up in this particular area and eventually you know, if we can get some better data, contract tracing and things like that where you can open up the economy and still have, you know very quickly identify where a hot spot might be a merging. Those are the types of data pieces that you know what the right levels of of security and data privacy, but with but with access to that data, we can get a handle on how some of these things are happening. Then I think you go and you look at s So that's that's kind of some of the data analytics pieces. Right? Then you also go look at what are folks doing on the testing side? And I think, you know, there's a lot of discussion about how well testing is done. I think we all >>know that there >>are ways that we always thought maybe it was a little bit further along with it is, but there's a number of private places that are actually really speeding up. I think this is one of the big areas that Amazon best, right? And I don't I don't know. We'll see if we are able to get there faster than some of the other places, but we we see a real need for testing. Testing is one of those such a critical component if we could do rapid testing, frequent testing, both for our own employees. But frankly, for for all the industries that we all rely on, I have come to rely on, particularly in this virtual world. We know that the faster we can get testing and more reliable, we can get testing. The better we are able to then isolate, get people to self quarantine and really kind of control that mass spread >>of the >>disease. >>I know >>you know >>healthcare is interesting. One of the emerging things we're seeing coming out of the summit here and some of the conversations we had is how the enterprise has always been kind of a hard environment to find stuff. As people live at home and working at home, working remotely, working in remote teams, the idea of searching for stuff becomes interesting. So you guys announced the general availability, Kendra. The timing couldn't have been better for that, because that's really giving you a Google like vibe feel for funding information. But it's really an integration play under the covers, so I think that's the kind of trend that we're seeing. We're seeing also startups putting up APS out there so you see a lot of activity. That's kind of in line with this. That you guys are announcing anything >>at any >>update on the Kendra or >>Canada is fantastic, and it's it's really I think struck a nerve with folks where the traditional way of thinking about search, particularly internal for internal Internets just doesn't work. You know how many hits you get and how many millions of people across billions and billions of people on the Internet that that model works on the Internet. You might be looking for very specific things. Um, and with machine learning, we're able to tell what is the intent of the requests that people are looking for and take you to the right place so that if you say you know one of the hours of my help desk, there's a very specific page that you're looking for, which is this number. In fact, you're not looking for a job to go to. You're not looking for information about help desks. You're looking for the actual hours of my internal help desks, particularly probably from my building. And as we do build these ML models that can start to learn on how your Internet works and how people are thinking about it and what's helpful or not, we've been able to improve an Internet search orders of magnitude. I've used it internally for our own. I'm instrumented it. It's night and day compared to what we used before was kind of your keyword search type of thing. So I think applying ML, particularly when people remote and really relying on resource, is like that where they can't just, you know, lean over to a cube next to them and say, Hey, we're still you know what time is the help desk open? >>I think getting breaking down the silos to just we build that abstraction layer a data leak really kind of makes a big difference. >>That's right. >>So final question for you as companies settle into the new realities that are upon them, what's the outlook for the rest of 2020 for you guys? And what do you say? That customers that are here on the online trying to consume the virtual content that they should be building out because you've got not just customers. You've got commercial customers, you got public sector and you got an ecosystem. You got partners out there who are building on top of AWS. Um, rolling this together. What's your message to them? What's on the outlook? >>2020 Number one. I encourage everyone to take advantage. I think In many ways, some of these virtual summits are great opportunity, maybe, for those were unable to travel to the summit or to be able to actually physically get there. It's a great opportunity to learn, really dive in trying to do some virtual labs really get in and understand some of the new features and functionality that are out there from a partner perspective. Many of the things that we're building, whether it's our outflow service that we just launched a couple of weeks ago, that helps us to really connects to our various partners into a data lake. As John was mentioning those air, these were really some of the things that you know, if you think about our broad swath of our partner ecosystem, encourage our customers to really look at all of the partners that are running on AWS who have great solutions. Like the Cube. You're looking for virtual events. They have. They have an awesome product you should check out, but we have a wide set of partners that will help you. Yeah, put together the virtual world that you all are trying to work through right now and encourage you just to learn >>I really appreciate the plug, actually, one for the cube. A new event Cloud. What? We're trying to figure it out. I think this kind of reminds me of a famous quote I heard on the queue, which is a notable one, is that everything in the future that is going to be invented was on Star Trek or Star Wars. So I assume we're gonna have video cameras and everyone's office, and we'll be able to go and talk to folks. So looking forward to again, standing up content, getting the content and connecting people. Thanks for spending >>the >>time out of your day to come in and talk with me and share your insights. And, ah, Amazon Summit Web services Summit online Virtual cube Virtual. Thanks for your time. Appreciate your insights. >>Great. Thank you. >>OK, Cube here. Virtual in our studio covering remotely all the top content out there covering AWS summit online. There's a whole new reality rolling it together. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

>> From around the globe, it's theCube with digital coverage of Red Hat Summit 2020, brought to you by Red Hat. >> Welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman, and this is the cubes coverage of Red Hat Summit 2020. Of course, this year's event happening digitally, we're talking to Red Hat executives, partners, customers, where they are around the globe, bringing them remotely into this digital event. And really important topic, of course, has been Automation for a long time, I think back to my career automation is something we've been talking about for decades, but even more important in today's age. Happy to welcome back to the program, Tim Kramer with Red Hat, Vice President of Engineering is that I don't have listed view here. But since we last talked to him at Ansible Fest, has been a little expansion in the scope of what you're working on. First of all, welcome back, and tell us what's new in your world? >> All right, thanks a lot. Yeah, there's been rather substantial change in roles. I'm now in charge actually, of all of the engineering within Red Hat. All the development engineering site includes: the middleware teams, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, of course management and automation, the new team that we just brought over from IBM doing Advanced Container Management. I'm basically running the whole thing and OpenShift of course. >> Excellent. Just a few things to keep you busy. Congratulations on that and love your support in the the Boston "Hello World" rella eight shirt that of course we saw last year at summit. I know one of the things being digital is people do miss some of the t-shirts. I know my family was quite fond of the "May The Fourth Be With You" shirts, that Red Hat did one year at summit. Of course, celebrating Star Wars Day, highly celebrated in in the Miniman household. But Tim, let's talk about Ansible. This brings our audience up to speed, what's happening that some of the latest pieces, and of course, it's been one of the great success stories. Ansible was a lot of adoption before the acquisition, but really accelerated over the last few years? >> At Ansible Fest, we talked a lot about technology to come and showed a few demos of the possibilities. What we have done since then is actually bring all of that technology to life and to expand it. One thing that Red Hat has really done is continue to invest heavily in Ansible, to make sure that we can bring new capabilities and new value to the subscription for everyone. Some of the things that have been happening since summit, which of course we are in, and since Ansible Fest, since we last talked was it, the community continues to scale at a really rapid rate. It's almost hard to keep up. And the number of modules that we have had is grown just tremendously. We have well over 3000 modules now that are available, and as customers and partners and also just casual users are looking through that, it's difficult to figure out: what's really supported? What's really rock solid? What can I count on? And what is, maybe sort of that Wild West community, I'm just trying out some stuff with Ansible and see how it goes. We've been focusing on a lot, is a place that you can come to the Ansible automation platform and the hub where you can now get this content and you can rely on the fact that it's going to be certified by partners, tested by partners, they're always keeping up with the latest updates. A great example of this is, let's just take NetApp or F5, or Cisco as good examples, across the various spaces, we absolutely in the Ansible engineering team are not experts on all of the latest changes, the new hardware coming out, the new software upgrades that they're making. And our ability to keep up with that is pretty difficult. We just can't do it, but they sure can. And their customers, and our customers are both demanding that we give them more content, better content, and we need to be able to do it at the rate that our partners want to be able to provide that kind. As an example, normally we were kind of slowing Ansible down and trying to do one release every six months. But if a new piece of software, a new switch or a new disk array or anything comes out in the meantime, all of our customers had to wait for that next six months release, that was not very convenient. And having an expectation that our partners are going to line up on our schedule is, well, That didn't work out so well for them. We've created the certified content. And we now have the goals to have 50 certified partners. Back at first, I think we had three or four. We're now up to 30, our goal is to hit 50. We had about 100 modules that we showed at fest that were certified, we now have over 1200 modules that are certified content. And these are our partners, creating this content and making it stable and secure for everyone to use. >>So that, I think, by far   >> That was the coolest thing that we've done. >> Yeah, it's great to see that progress. Congratulations on the momentum since Ansible Fest. One of the other things talked about that back at that show, we talked about how analytics and automation, how those are going together, how's adoption been? Is this impossibly met? >> Adoption on the analytic side has been... It's been taking off. It was pretty nascent. I can tell you that, that we've grown by about five X there, but we started a little bit small. We had a few customers that signed up early on to do it. I think probably the more impressive thing is that, we have a couple of customers in markets that you would traditionally think, we're not going to get their data, they're more concerned about what we're sharing, but we have a major bank, we have a major manufacturer that have well over 10,000 systems providing data back into Red Hat that allows us then to analyze and provide a bunch of analytics back on their running estate. And I think that's amazing, seeing the big customers that are coming in from Marcus that you might think, we're probably not going to get a lot of uptake has been really exciting to me. >> All right, you talked a bit about how Ansible fits into the ecosystem, of course being at summit, want to understand a bit more how Ansible the latest of how it's fitting into the rest of the Red Hat portfolio. I've got interviews with Stephanie Shiraz, talking about you, Raul and Joe Fitzgerald, talking about ACM, your group I know is heavily involved working on a lot of those pieces. Help us understand how this is kind of a seamless portfolio. >> I think that's one of the most important things that we do within Red Hat team, is that we have to share the sufficiency across all the product groups and make them better and provide an additional enhanced value there. We've done a lot on the RHEL side, probably one of the maybe lesser known thing is that, we've been working really closely on OpenShift. And actually, we have a lot of customers now that really want the Ansible automation hub available on OpenShift as a first-class application. We're doing things, we're writing operators for those so that we can automate the updates and upgrades and back up and all of that important functionality, so that it's really easy, than to manage your Ansible automation hub, running on OpenShift, that's one big thing. And then we're going to integrate that really well into the advanced container management, that the team from IBM that came over is working towards. I have a really close partnership with ACM team to make sure that we can start to not only gather lists of affected systems, but then take that list and do a bunch of automations against it. >> That's one. On the RHEL side, we've done a lot. We introduced at last summit rally, and we talked about having insights as part of that. Since then, we've been adding more and more capabilities into insights, and to enhance that value of the subscription route. We looked at adding in, well, advisor is now what we used to call insights. It's just something that advises you about problems or issues that may be occurring in your URL instances that are running on prem. We've also added in a drift service, so you can tell if your configurations are sort of drifting apart. We've added in a compliance checker, so you can define some kind of a policy or compliance that you want to enforce on all of your running instances, and we make sure that you're still compliant. We also have a vulnerability detector, which you'd kind of expect, so any nasty security issues that come along, we can pop those up and show you right away. And probably some of the... One of the newer things is, we allow you to do patching. And you can do that patching, right from cloud@redhat.com. We also have another new very exciting feature, which is Subscription Watch, also on cloud@redhat.com. And what this allows you to do is to see and manage all of your subscriptions across your entire hybrid estate. From what you're running on prem, to what you're running in any of the public clouds, we can actually track that for you. You can see what kind of usage you have. And then, make better economic decisions for yourself, and then be able to easily expand that usage if you want to, it used to be a little bit more difficult to do that. We're trying to make subscriptions just like as much in the background as possible to make it easier for our customers. >> Tim, one of one of the big changes customers have to go through is moving from, their environment in their data centers, to the leverage of SaaS and managing things that are outside of their control and the public cloud. You've got an engineering development team, and you've got software that went from, mostly going in customers data centers too, you've got SaaS offerings, you're living in the public cloud. Want to understand, what's changing in your world? What advice would you give to other people as to kind of the learnings that Red Hat has had going through those pieces? >> It's actually a kind of a neat story, because after we change to start making a lot of our services that we had just only shipping products on prem into cloud based services, we had to develop this platform to be able to host all of these services. We started with the insights platform, because we already had that running out in the public cloud. So that was the obvious first thing to base everything on. But we had to build out that platform so that it could support all these services, the ones I just talked about, that are with REL are really good examples. Between a policy, compliance drift, all of these different kinds of services that we're offering, we had to build out that set of capabilities and services in what we're calling sort of the cloud@redhat.com platform. What I'm seeing is that a lot of customers are going through some of these same kinds of thoughts. Like they have a myriad, let's say of applications that are running that they're trying to provide back into their their own company. Different divisions of a company, they have things that are running in the cloud, some things that are running on prem, and they want to start to be able to offer a more cohesive set of services, consolidate some of these, share some of the engineering effort that they have across their various teams. This is exactly the journey that we went through to get to cloud@redhat.com. Finding a surprising number of customers that are actually really interested just in that story, about how we did that. One of the things that we've found is, we've been working with the folks at the open innovation labs within Red Hat. And this is one of the transformation stories that they see constantly as well. We've worked with them and shared this, they're a great resource to help customers kind of think through that problem and get them into a new kind of a platform. But it's quite a journey. We've been really focused on the infrastructure and on prem. Moving to the cloud was a big. But I'll tell you it engineering can move so much faster in a SaaS service than it can with on prem software delivery. It's been remarkable how quickly we could get there. >> Tim, one other thing, if I look at Red Hat, you're a global company, most development organizations are highly distributed to begin with. So many companies today are now having to rapidly figure out how do I manage people that are working from home? How do I live in these environments? From an automation tooling, we'd love to hear any advice you have there, as well as just anything else from your engineering experience in your teams that other people might be able to learn from, as they're dealing with today's landscape. >> To be honest, this is a... We have never seen anything like this in our history, with this kind of pandemic that's happening worldwide. It's shifting everything about business. And it has been challenging just within Red Hat engineering for how we can manage the engineers and their expectations and how difficult it can be to work from home. I have amazing stories from my own engineers. I had an engineer who's in Spain and his wife is a nurse. She's on like 18-hour shifts, the hospital comes back, they have to separate, he's got the kids. And because they don't want them to get infected, it's a really, really difficult working situation for a lot of families out there to try to make it through this. One of the things at Red Hat is, we just have to recognize that it's okay to slow things down a little bit. Let our engineers not feel the pressure that they have to do both childcare and school-at-home and caring for sick relatives or sick family, as well as meet all of your deadlines, it's kind of too much. We've been really... We're trying to be very compassionate with our folks letting them know that we have their back, and it's going to be okay as we try to get ourselves through this ridiculously different time that we've never seen anything like this, like I said. From an engineering perspective, I think work-from-home has been, it's okay for some people. If you have a larger home, I think it's a little easier maybe to find a room that you can go into and do your work. For some, no, if they're in an apartment, or you're sharing with a bunch of friends, it's not your workplace. And it can be really challenging to figure out how to work for eight hours a day with sort of a lot of distractions or just feeling confined and it's just been really difficult for anybody that wants to try to get out, you go a little stir-crazy. The good thing I guess is that engineering is naturally lends itself to being able to be remote and work from home. We have an advantage that way, than other industries, which is great. But it's definitely been really challenging for our teams to be able to cope with this and all we can do is just be really understanding. >> Tim, we appreciate the stories, they're definitely everyone's working through some challenging times. Want to give you the final word as to really takeaways as to what should people be watching? What things should people be going back and looking at from an automation standpoint as they leave Red Hat Summit 2020? >> We're just going to continue to work with the community, work with our partners, get more certified content and continue to scale, the best way that we can for all of our users and our customers. That is the key focus. We want to continue automating and providing all of that flexibility. If you want all 4000 modules and a big download, we certainly are... We're going to continue to give you that option. But if you want to be able to start customizing what you download, maybe only relying on certified content, instead of community content, we're going to give you that option now as well, so that you know what you're running. And with the analytics, we're just scratching the surface here. We're getting some great data. It's helping us to develop new ways of insights into how your systems are running. And that'll get very exciting as we go forward. I know that we've seen like a Forex increase already in the amount of insights attached to REL, which is really great, and for now, at least in the hundreds of customers that are using the AI, I think as we show more value there, you'll get a lot more customers to provide some of their data which will allow us then collectively to come up with some really great analytics to help people become more efficient with your automation. >> Well, Tim Kramer, thank you so much for the updates. And thank you to everything your team's doing. And just a reminder to the audience, of course, these communities not only are important technical resources, but many of them you've made friends with over the years. If you need help, reach out to the community. There are so many good stories that can be found amongst these communities helping each other through these challenging times. Much more coverage from Red Hat Summit 2020. I'm Stu Miniman, and thank you as always for watching theCube. (gentle upbeat music)

>> From around the globe, it's theCube with digital coverage of Red Hat Summit 2020, brought to you by Red Hat. >> Welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman, and this is the cubes coverage of Red Hat Summit 2020. Of course, this year's event happening digitally, we're talking to Red Hat executives, partners, customers, where they are around the globe, bringing them remotely into this digital event. And really important topic, of course, has been Automation for a long time, I think back to my career automation is something we've been talking about for decades, but even more important in today's age. Happy to welcome back to the program, Tim Kramer with Red Hat, Vice President of Engineering is that I don't have listed view here. But since we last talked to him at Ansible Fest, has been a little expansion in the scope of what you're working on. First of all, welcome back, and tell us what's new in your world? >> All right, thanks a lot. Yeah, there's been rather substantial change in roles. I'm now in charge actually, of all of the engineering within Red Hat. All the development engineering site includes: the middleware teams, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, of course management and automation, the new team that we just brought over from IBM doing Advanced Container Management. I'm basically running the whole thing and openShift of course. >> Excellent. Just a few things to keep you busy. Congratulations on that and love your support in the the Boston "Hello World" rella eight shirt that of course we saw last year at summit. I know one of the things being digital is people do miss some of the t-shirts. I know my family was quite fond of the "May The Fourth Be With You" shirts, that Red Hat did one year at summit. Of course, celebrating Star Wars Day, highly celebrated in in the Middleman household. But Tim, let's talk about Ansible. This brings our audience up to speed, what's happening that some of the latest pieces, and of course, it's been one of the great success stories. Ansible was a lot of adoption before the acquisition, but really accelerated over the last few years? >> I think it's been very exciting. We talked a lot about some of the cool things that we're going to be working on it Ansible Fest, and we showed a lot of demos. We're actually now bringing a lot of those technologies to light. And the main thing that we've been focused on really, is let's make sure that we're continuing to add really great value to the Ansible subscription. And especially for our customers, and any users actually, we want to make sure that we can continue to scale with the community and partners that are part of Ansible. And we are also um, (mumbles) Freezing. We just start that question again, fix that one in post? Sorry. >> Just stay in. It's okay, we'll pick it up there. They can do a trend, though. Tim, I'll start the question again? >> Okay. >> We'll start this. I'll reframe the question again. Then I'll cut your screen and you'll go, and... Tim, let's focus specifically on the updates on what's happening in Ansible. >> At Ansible Fest, we talked a lot about technology to come and showed a few demos of the possibilities. What we have done since then is actually bring all of that technology to life and to expand it. One thing that Red Hat has really done is continue to invest heavily in Ansible, to make sure that we can bring new capabilities and new value to the subscription for everyone. Some of the things that have been happening since summit, which of course we are in, and since Ansible Fest, since we last talked was it, the community continues to scale at a really rapid rate. It's almost hard to keep up. And the number of modules that we have had is grown just tremendously. We have well over 3000 modules now that are available, and as customers and partners and also just casual users are looking through that, it's difficult to figure out: what's really supported? What's really rock solid? What can I count on? And what is, maybe sort of that Wild West community, I'm just trying out some stuff with Ansible and see how it goes. We've been focusing on a lot, is a place that you can come to the Ansible automation platform and the hub where you can now get this content and you can rely on the fact that it's going to be certified by partners, tested by partners, they're always keeping up with the latest updates. A great example of this is, let's just take NetApp or F5, or Cisco as good examples, across the various spaces, we absolutely in the Ansible engineering team are not experts on all of the latest changes, the new hardware coming out, the new software upgrades that they're making. And our ability to keep up with that is pretty difficult. We just can't do it, but they sure can. And their customers, and our customers are both demanding that we give them more content, better content, and we need to be able to do it at the rate that our partners want to be able to provide that kind. As an example, normally we were kind of slowing Ansible down and trying to do one release every six months. But if a new piece of software, a new switch or a new disk array or anything comes out in the meantime, all of our customers had to wait for that next six months release, that was not very convenient. And having an expectation that our partners are going to line up on our schedule is, oh! That didn't work out so well for them. We've created the certified content. And we now have the goals to have 50 certified partners. Back at first, I think we had three or four. We're now up to 30, our goal is to hit 50. We had about 100 modules that we showed at fest that were certified, we now have over 1200 modules that are certified content. And these are our partners, creating this content and making it stable and secure for everyone to use. So that, I think, far >> (mumbles) >> That was the coolest thing that we've done. >> Yeah, it's great to see that progress. Congratulations on the momentum since Ansible Fest. One of the other things talked about that back at that show, we talked about how analytics and automation, how those are going together, how's adoption been? Is this impossibly met? >> Adoption on the analytic side has been... It's been taking off. It was pretty nascent. I can tell you that, that we've grown by about five X there, but we started a little bit small. We had a few customers that signed up early on to do it. I think probably the more impressive thing is that, we have a couple of customers in markets that you would traditionally think, we're not going to get their data, they're more concerned about what we're sharing, but we have a major bank, we have a major manufacturer that have well over 10,000 systems providing data back into Red Hat that allows us then to analyze and provide a bunch of analytics back on their running estate. And I think that's amazing, seeing the big customers that are coming in from Marcus that you might think, we're probably not going to get a lot of uptake has been really exciting to me. >> All right, you talked a bit about how Ansible fits into the ecosystem, of course being at summit, want to understand a bit more how Ansible the latest of how it's fitting into the rest of the Red Hat portfolio. I've got interviews with Stephanie Shiraz, talking about you, Raul and Joe Fitzgerald, talking about ACM, your group I know is heavily involved working on a lot of those pieces. Help us understand how this is kind of a seamless portfolio. >> I think that's one of the most important things that we do within Red Hat team, is that we have to share the sufficiency across all the product groups and make them better and provide an additional enhanced value there. We've done a lot on the rail side, probably one of the maybe lesser known thing is that, we've been working really closely on openShift. And actually, we have a lot of customers now that really want the Ansible automation hub available on openShift as a first-class application. We're doing things, we're writing operators for those so that we can automate the updates and upgrades and back up and all of that important functionality, so that it's really easy, than to manage your Ansible automation hub, running on openShift, that's one big thing. And then we're going to integrate that really well into the advanced container management, that the team from IBM that came over is working towards. I have a really close partnership with ACM team to make sure that we can start to not only gather lists of affected systems, but then take that list and do a bunch of automations against it. >> (mumbles) >> That's one. On the real side, we've done a lot. We introduced at last summit rally, and we talked about having insights as part of that. Since then, we've been adding more and more capabilities into insights, and to enhance that value of the subscription route. We looked at adding in, well, advisor is now what we used to call insights. It's just something that advises you about problems or issues that may be occurring in your URL instances that are running on prem. We've also added in a drift service, so you can tell if your configurations are sort of drifting apart. We've added in a compliance checker, so you can define some kind of a policy or compliance that you want to enforce on all of your running instances, and we make sure that you're still compliant. We also have a vulnerability detector, which you'd kind of expect, so any nasty security issues that come along, we can pop those up and show you right away. And probably some of the... One of the newer things is, we allow you to do patching. And you can do that patching, right from cloud@redhat.com. We also have another new very exciting feature, which is Subscription Watch, also on cloud@redhat.com. And what this allows you to do is to see and manage all of your subscriptions across your entire hybrid estate. From what you're running on prem, to what you're running in any of the public clouds, we can actually track that for you. You can see what kind of usage you have. And then, make better economic decisions for yourself, and then be able to easily expand that usage if you want to, it used to be a little bit more difficult to do that. We're trying to make subscriptions just like as much in the background as possible to make it easier for our customers. >> Tim, one of one of the big changes customers have to go through is moving from, their environment in their data centers, to the leverage of SaaS and managing things that are outside of their control and the public cloud. You've got an engineering development team, and you've got software that went from, mostly going in customers data centers too, you've got SaaS offerings, you're living in the public cloud. Want to understand, what's changing in your world? What advice would you give to other people as to kind of the learnings that Red Hat has had going through those pieces? >> It's actually a kind of a neat story, because after we change to start making a lot of our services that we had just only shipping products on prem into cloud based services, we had to develop this platform to be able to host all of these services. We started with the insights platform, because we already had that running out in the public cloud. So that was the obvious first thing to base everything on. But we had to build out that platform so that it could support all these services, the ones I just talked about, that are with REL are really good examples. Between a policy, compliance drift, all of these different kinds of services that we're offering, we had to build out that set of capabilities and services in what we're calling sort of the cloud@redhat.com platform. What I'm seeing is that a lot of customers are going through some of these same kinds of thoughts. Like they have a myriad, let's say of applications that are running that they're trying to provide back into their their own company. Different divisions of a company, they have things that are running in the cloud, some things that are running on prem, and they want to start to be able to offer a more cohesive set of services, consolidate some of these, share some of the engineering effort that they have across their various teams. This is exactly the journey that we went through to get to cloud@redhat.com. Finding a surprising number of customers that are actually really interested just in that story, about how we did that. One of the things that we've found is, we've been working with the folks at the open innovation labs within Red Hat. And this is one of the transformation stories that they see constantly as well. We've worked with them and shared this, they're a great resource to help customers kind of think through that problem and get them into a new kind of a platform. But it's quite a journey. We've been really focused on the infrastructure and on prem. Moving to the cloud was a big. But I'll tell you it engineering can move so much faster in a SaaS service than it can with on prem software delivery. It's been remarkable how quickly we could get there. >> Tim, one other thing, if I look at Red Hat, you're a global company, most development organizations are highly distributed to begin with. So many companies today are now having to rapidly figure out how do I manage people that are working from home? How do I live in these environments? From an automation tooling, we'd love to hear any advice you have there, as well as just anything else from your engineering experience in your teams that other people might be able to learn from, as they're dealing with today's landscape. >> To be honest, this is a... We have never seen anything like this in our history, with this kind of pandemic that's happening worldwide. It's shifting everything about business. And it has been challenging just within Red Hat engineering for how we can manage the engineers and their expectations and how difficult it can be to work from home. I have amazing stories from my own engineers. I had an engineer who's in Spain and his wife is a nurse. She's on like 18-hour shifts, the hospital comes back, they have to separate, he's got the kids. And because they don't want them to get infected, it's a really, really difficult working situation for a lot of families out there to try to make it through this. One of the things at Red Hat is, we just have to recognize that it's okay to slow things down a little bit. Let our engineers not feel the pressure that they have to do both childcare and school-at-home and caring for sick relatives or sick family, as well as meet all of your deadlines, it's kind of too much. We've been really... We're trying to be very compassionate with our folks letting them know that we have their back, and it's going to be okay as we try to get ourselves through this ridiculously different time that we've never seen anything like this, like I said. From an engineering perspective, I think work-from-home has been, it's okay for some people. If you have a larger home, I think it's a little easier maybe to find a room that you can go into and do your work. For some, no, if they're in an apartment, or you're sharing with a bunch of friends, it's not your workplace. And it can be really challenging to figure out how to work for eight hours a day with sort of a lot of distractions or just feeling confined and it's just been really difficult for anybody that wants to try to get out, you go a little stir-crazy. The good thing I guess is that engineering is naturally lends itself to being able to be remote and work from home. We have an advantage that way, than other industries, which is great. But it's definitely been really challenging for our teams to be able to cope with this and all we can do is just be really understanding. >> Tim, we appreciate the stories, they're definitely everyone's working through some challenging times. Want to give you the final word as to really takeaways as to what should people be watching? What things should people be going back and looking at from an automation standpoint as they leave Red Hat Summit 2020? >> We're just going to continue to work with the community, work with our partners, get more certified content and continue to scale, the best way that we can for all of our users and our customers. That is the key focus. We want to continue automating and providing all of that flexibility. If you want all 4000 modules and a big download, we certainly are... We're going to continue to give you that option. But if you want to be able to start customizing what you download, maybe only relying on certified content, instead of community content, we're going to give you that option now as well, so that you know what you're running. And with the analytics, we're just scratching the surface here. We're getting some great data. It's helping us to develop new ways of insights into how your systems are running. And that'll get very exciting as we go forward. I know that we've seen like a Forex increase already in the amount of insights attached to REL, which is really great, and for now, at least in the hundreds of customers that are using the AI, I think as we show more value there, you'll get a lot more customers to provide some of their data which will allow us then collectively to come up with some really great analytics to help people become more efficient with your automation. >> Well, Tim Kramer, thank you so much for the updates. And thank you to everything your team's doing. And just a reminder to the audience, of course, these communities not only are important technical resources, but many of them you've made friends with over the years. If you need help, reach out to the community. There are so many good stories that can be found amongst these communities helping each other through these challenging times. Much more coverage from Red Hat Summit 2020. I'm Stu Miniman, and thank you as always for watching theCube. (gentle upbeat music)

>>LA from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back to Vegas, Lisa Martin with John farrier. We are live at AWS reinvent in the expo hall at the sands convention center. There's tons of people in here. You could probably hear some of the background AWS expecting 65,000 or so folks. John, how many of those 65,000 and have you talked to in the last two days? >>Well, I can hear all the conversations happening at once. It's about hybrid cloud, IOT edge data, machine learning. my head's going to come. >>I was going to say lots of cool stuff. John and I are pleased to be joined by Greg Coralville, the VP of products and strategy for Blackberry Q. Next group. Welcome to the program >>to be here with 65,000 of our closest friends. >>His friends. Exactly. So Blackberry, cute X. What's it all about? >>What's it all about? Well, we do software. We do embedded software for mission critical systems at this event, at the AWS reinvent over showing a software and a really cool car, a karma, and we're connecting it to the AWS IOT backend services and showing some really, really cool use cases. Some of which are near term summer, which are a bit longer term are pretty exciting. Take a quick minute to describe Kunis. Is background acquired by Blackberry system history legacy? Exactly. Just take a quick minute to explain that. So we were founded in 1980 and then developing software for mission critical devices and medical, industrial. And then we started developing software for automotive in 1998 so we've been in automotive for about 20 years and developing originally an infotainment and then digital instrument clusters, telematic systems, gateways, safety systems, acoustics systems, pretty much becoming the software platform in the car because in the car, the car, the software is to be reliable, safe, secure. >>So we're trusted to deliver that. In automotive, we were acquired by Blackberry in 2010 and we're bringing the best of Blackberry and automotive and all of our other markets. So Lisa and I always talk about IOT is RPA automation. All this stuff's going on. But one of the things that comes up is we're trying to grok what's the software development environment in the cloud, in the car, and a Amazon one by having great API APIs. Yep. That was one of their core design principles. Is there a similar design principle from a car standpoint? Because if I'm an app developer, I just love, I have my mobile app sit on the car, right? But I don't want to have to become an expert on all the nuances of is there a connector? So is there going to be multiple platforms? What's the, what's the principle? Can you explain that a great question and great observation. >>So cars traditionally have been proprietary, pretty much closed systems and started open up with CarPlay and Android auto or all of a sudden you saw your mobile device being able to communicate with the car and now I could run Android apps, I could run iOS apps and started to open it up a bit. And now what you've seen is cars are becoming more connected, they're becoming more automated, eventually autonomous. Um, they're definitely, and what you're seeing in the car is in order for that car to really evolve and to offer connected services and shared mobility and the electrification that's occurring, the automotive industry is going through a disruption. We've all heard that and it really is true. So to the point where the electronics in the car, the networks in the car, the software in the car, it's getting completely redesigned and you're seeing a lot more high end processors. >>You're seeing safety critical systems, which have always been in cars, but now you're seeing a lot more complexity. And that speaks to exactly what we do. So where that car's going, if you think about it, is moving to more of a software platform. You have applications and mobile devices. Why? Because you've got Android and you've got iOS. That car is moving to that sort of a common platform where with the help of AWS connected services, the cubix Blackberry Punic software platform in the car, all of a sudden that'll open the door to that kind of environment to applications, to connected services. And that's exactly where it's going. So connectivities, it's here and it's going to be predominant through a pretty much all the vehicles coming off the line in the coming years. So you're going to see the connectivity and now we can bring the services and the apps to that vehicle. But at the same time you got to keep it safe, got to keep it secure. Gotta keep it reliable. You know, it's the classic mobile device, bingo literal device on wheels, right of two ton mobile device on wheels. >>Doc disruption sounds really cool and it's consumers. We just had this expectation that we can have whatever I want, the whole experience I want. And obviously as everything evolves, we want it to be safer and safer. And as there's laws and regulations that govern, Hey, you're going to get hefty fines if you're seeing with this device and you're driving. But disruption is really challenging, right? We talked, we got some great examples yesterday on stage with Andy Jassy of Goldman Sachs, right? How many years old are they and how they have leveraged disruption to revolutionize their consumer business or healthcare revolutionizing. I'd love to get your perspective on what are some of the automakers that are bleeding edge going, we get it. We want to work with you guys so that they understand that this the, you know, the, the mobile devices, the connected device on wheels is going to be transformative for their business. >>Good point. So first of all, every automaker we work with and we work, we work with almost 50 auto makers and we're over a hundred. We're in over 150 million vehicles and multiple systems in the cars. They're all putting safety first. That's never really changed. But that remains primary, primary objective. And to your point is how do you maintain that safety net reliability while at the same time opening the door to connectivity, making sure that vehicle is secure and resilient to attacks and whatnot. And you've seen some of those attacks in the past. And the industry is learning. Um, but that's, that's exactly what, that's what speaks to us and what we do. Same thing with AWS. If you think about what we do, we're plumbers. We, we build plumbing in the car, AWL splits, plumbing in the cloud. And I've had that call, those conversations with AWS and they're like, yeah, we're plumbers. >>And I said, so are we, we're going to get along great. But to your point, we have to keep our eye on security. Our definitely our eye on privacy and safety. And that's exactly what we do. As much as we all want the consumer apps and the connected experience at the same time, we can't compromise on that. So the good thing in automotive is there's a automotive safety standards, ISO two, six, two, six, two and whatnot, which we've certified our products to and we're going to keep doing that and keep delivering that software in the car. But that's awesome for 0.2 ton mobile device on wheels. So we got to always be aware of that. Great opportunity. People want more conduct and safety too. And that's a huge thing. Security and safety. I want to get to that in a second, but I got to ask you, um, what is the relationship that you guys have with Amazon? >>Could you explain that? And what are you guys doing at reinvent this year? Is your leg a presentation demo? Take a minute to explain the relationship between queen Nixon and Amazon web services and what you're showing here. Well, we're in the connected home exhibit. In fact, we're in the quote unquote garage where we've got a vehicle, a beautiful karma Rivero GT. And I was told it's the first time there's actually a car at reinvent. So that was pretty cool. And it's a cool car if you get a chance, come on over. And what we've done is we've taken the karma vehicle and we've actually connected it to AWS IOT. So if you think about what we do, we do software in the car, as I was saying earlier. And then we worked with the Amazon team, with the AWS team to say, okay, what can we do? So one of the things we're doing is we're doing battery monitoring and prediction in terms of the life of the battery. >>That's one of the things that we're doing. The other thing we're doing is personalized cockpit, which is, which is pretty exciting. And, and the last thing we're doing is kind of a business to business demonstration, um, where it's data orchestrations. If you think about the vehicle, there's a lot of sensors on the vehicle, a lot of information available on the vehicle. And what we're doing with AWS is pulling information from the vehicle, putting it in the cloud. And then we've got a few examples that we're using. So one of them is an application for an auto detailing company where they might want, you might want to have your vehicle detailed where we can make the position of your vehicle available, GPS, the VIN number. So the identify the identification of the vehicle. Um, and then you could actually contract with that expert detailings what we called them to come to your vehicle, clean the vehicle, detail your vehicle within a finite period of time securely. >>And then you'll get notified when it's done and whatnot. We're doing facial recognition in the vehicle and we also put some ML in machine learning in the car. We're actually showing gesture recognition where I can fold the mirrors with a, with a peace sign or victory signs. I could have the mirrors fold in. Uh, I can, I can interact with the infotainment system. I can personalize the music and whatnot. So really personalizing the cockpit. But all through the power of AWS. Sorry, what are we going to have to the car flying cars? Come on Jetsons flyers. I love this coming. Maybe not the flying carpet. Wow. Okay. Flying cars. Fine. I mean, I always say anything else that's in star Trek or star Wars will be invented. So I'm respecting some flying vehicles. All fun aside. Yeah. Now the serious conversation is safety and security. >>Worst case scenario, my car is hacked. Take over. This is a fear. Again, it's the worst. It's a doom season here. Those stories are straight. All IOT device. It's a car. How do you guys view the security posture? Um, good question. This is concerned. It might be on people's mind. Yeah. And that's what really speaks to where our company has been for almost four decades now. You know, when people would ask me, Hey, where would I find Punic software? Blackberry Punic software, I'd say almost everywhere, but the desktop. So where things have to be reliable, safe, secure work all the time. That's where you'll find our software. So factory floor, we're in laser eye surgery. Machines are in patient monitoring devices, MRI machines. And so essentially those areas which are safety critical, where safety, security and reliability, you know, our top real really industrial IOT thing, big time, big time. >>And that's the cool thing about walking around reinvent. There's all kinds of industrial devices and control. So if you go to the car now, if you think about the vehicle, same fundamental needs, reliability, safety, security, and we're trusted to deliver an automotive. So security is one of those things. It's not static. So when you, when you, when you make something that's secure, you're really building something that's resilient to attacks. So you'd be as resilient as possible to prevent attacks. And then you do whatever you can to prevent any malicious act or actions on that. So we will monitor what's going on in the system. We'll monitor any communications going to the car, for instance. So the minute we detect something a bit of normal, we can take action based on that. So that, that's absolutely key, especially given the cars connected and more and more becoming connected. >>What's the opportunity is in a trucking industry, when I think of the number of sensors on trucks, the regulations that you know for drivers safety in terms of how many hours they actually have to be able to can drive. What's the opportunity there for Q next? >>Good question. So everything we're doing in the car, which I should generalize and say a vehicle applies to trucks. So if you think about trucking or vehicles or drones or anything like that, you have multiple sensors that you have to interact with. You have to interpret that information, you have to take action based on that information. So if we look at trucking specifically, everybody knows a major shortage of truck truck, truck drivers. So when people ask me about autonomous cars and Hey, when are we going to see autonomy's vehicles? I always look at trucking and we're working with companies, trucking companies that are using our technology. And one of the first use cases that they're putting forward is something called platooning, where you'll actually have the first truck on the road with a driver and any other trucks on the road. We'll be operating autonomously essentially following like a train if you want on a highway, and then they'll have a starting location and a drop off location and that all of a sudden becomes a real world scenario, which makes use of the same sensors, LIDAR, radar cameras, et cetera. >>So from a trucking perspective, we look at it very similar to a car and automotive perspective because they need the same fundamental technologies. So pretty exciting. Like I said, what we do applies all over the place and again, all going to be connected. But grant, thanks for coming on. I really appreciate, I want to get your final thoughts, at least from my perspective on developers. When you see deep racer, you see that trend. It's kind of, they've got LIDAR, it's kind of a toy, but people geeking out on this. And so I would imagine that we're going to see an emergence of a software development environment where as a controlled sandboxes, cause yeah, they've got the concern with the industrial equipment. Exactly. Yeah. How do you balance that old school industrial mindset of, you know, IOT with the new rapid agile product development? Yeah. And to your point, we're going through that transition now. >>So this is where things like Sage maker come into play where I can develop out and develop and refine machine learning models in the cloud. You still have those tight control loops that you need and there's tools for that. So that's the deeply embedded stuff that's controlling actuators and whatnot. You still need that. But to your point, you need to be more iterative. You need to be more agile, need to develop according to the safety standards and the various industries that they might be in. So it's that is evolving and it's evolving at exactly the right pace. Really glad to see that evolution. But to your point, all of these devices are going to become interconnected. There's going to be new opportunities. And from a developer perspective, you know, we can't hire enough developers. No one can. It's really exciting whether it's IOT cloud developers or embedded developers. >>There's such an exciting future ahead. And I got to ask, this is just popped in my head. So I want to ask, cause I'm curious, um, spectrum and RF power is great, but you need connectivity to make an IOT device work, right? How do you guys, how does the car folks look at conductivity? Just when they get to a spot they can connect. So is it managing the spectrum? How are cars thinking about the connectivity? So we work very closely with the modem vendors. For instance, in today in cars you'll see Bluetooth, you'll see wifi, you'll see 4g. Obviously there's the emergence of 5g. Um, vehicle to vehicle communications is through something called DSRC. Essentially wifi 5g is going to come along, so now you're going to be able to have throughput and also what's called low latency. So quick turn around on your messages and the information being exchanged. >>So that too is evolving from a, from a QA software perspective, we'll make use of whatever modems there. But to your point, we also have to deal with the cases where I've lost connectivity. I still need that V vehicle to operate safely. And especially if you consider that the systems might be, um, uh, the systems might be connected or we don't want to make, make it such that they're dependent on that connectivity. So you have to have fail over scenarios and whatnot, but cars will become connected, devices will become connected. We're going to take advantage of that connectivity, but not be dependent on that connectivity. >>Well, Greg, please let me know when that, uh, personalized service is available so that my car can be found and detailed. They'd find it right in my driveway going lady, please. It's been a pleasure, a really cool stuff. Blackberry Kunis thank you for joining John. We'll be, we'll have to go check out that car for John furrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube live in Vegas at AWS. Reinvent 19. Thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Welcome everyone to this special CUBE Conversation Around the CUBE segment, Unpacking AI, number two, sponsored by Juniper Networks. We've got a great lineup here to go around the CUBE and unpack AI. We have Ken Jennings, all-time Jeopardy champion with us. Celebrity, great story there, we'll dig into that. John Hinson, director of AI at Evotek and Charna Parkey, who's the applied scientist at Textio. Thanks for joining us here for Around the CUBE Unpacking AI, appreciate it. First question I want to get to, Ken, you're notable for being beaten by a machine on Jeopardy. Everyone knows that story, but it really brings out the question of AI and the role AI is playing in society around obsolescence. We've been hearing gloom and doom around AI replacing people's jobs, and it's not really that way. What's your take on AI and replacing people's jobs? >> You know, I'm not an economist, so I can't speak to how easy it's going to be to retrain and re-skill tens of millions of people once these clerical and food prep and driving and whatever jobs go away, but I can definitely speak to the personal feeling of being in that situation, kind of watching the machine take your job on the assembly line and realizing that the thing you thought made you special no longer exists. If IBM throws enough money at it, your skill essentially is now obsolete. And it was kind of a disconcerting feeling. I think that what people need is to feel like they matter, and that went away for me very quickly when I realized that a black rectangle can now beat me at a game show. >> Okay John, what's your take on AI replacing jobs? What's your view on this? >> I think, look, we're all going to have to adapt. There's a lot of changes coming. There's changes coming socially, economically, politically. I think it's a disservice to us all to get to too indulgent around the idea that these things are going to change. We have to absorb these things, we have to be really smart about how we approach them. We have to be very open-minded about how these things are going to actually change us all. But ultimately, I think it's going to be positive at the end of the day. It's definitely going to be a little rough for a couple of years as we make all these adjustments, but I think what AI brings to the table is heads above kind of where we are today. >> Charna, your take around this, because the role of humans versus machines are pretty significant, they help each other. But is AI going to dominate over humans? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a thing that we see over and over again in every bubble and collapse where, you know, in the automotive industry we certainly saw a bunch of jobs were lost, but a bunch of jobs were gained. And so we're just now actually getting into the phase where people are realizing that AI isn't just replacement, it has to be augmentation, right? We can't simply use images to replace recognition of people, we can't just use black box to give our FICO credit scores, it has to be inspectable. So there's a new field coming up now called explainable AI that actually is where we're moving towards and it's actually going to help society and create jobs. >> All right so let's stay on that next point for the next round, explainable AI. This points to a golden age. There's a debate around are we in a bubble or a golden age. A lot of people are negative right now on tech. You can see all the tech backlash. Amazon, the big tech companies like Apple and Facebook, there's a huge backlash around this so-called tech for society. Is this an indicator of a golden age coming? >> I think so, absolutely. We can take two examples of this. One would be where, you remember when Amazon built a hiring algorithm based upon their own resume data and they found that it was discriminating against women because they had only had men apply for it. Now with Textio we're building augmented writing across the audience and not from a single company and so companies like Johnson and Johnson are increasing the pipeline by more than nine percent which converts to 90,000 more women applying for their jobs. And so part of the difference there is one is explainable, one isn't, and one is using the right data set representing the audience that is consuming it and not a single company's hiring. So I think we're absolutely headed into more of a golden age, and I think these are some of the signs that people are starting to use it in the right way. >> John, what's your take? Obviously golden age doesn't look that to us right now. You see Facebook approving lies as ads, Twitter banning political ads. AI was supposed to solve all these problems. Is there light at the end of this dark tunnel we're on? >> Yeah, golden age for sure. I'm definitely a big believer in that. I think there's a new era amongst us on how we handle data in general. I think the most important thing we have here though is education around what this stuff is, how it works, how it's affecting our lives individually and at the corporate level. This is a new era of informing and augmenting literally everything we do. I see nothing but positives coming out of this. We have to be obviously very careful with our approaching all the biases that already exist today that are only going to be magnified with these types of algorithms at mass scale. But ultimately if we can get over that hurdle, which I believe collectively we all need to do together, I think we'd live in much better, less wasteful world just by approaching the data that's already at hand. >> Ken, what's your take on this? It's like a daily double question. Is it going to be a golden age? >> Laughs >> It's going to come sooner or later. We have to have catastrophe before, we have to have reality hit us in the face before we realize that tech is good, and shaping it? It's pretty ugly right now in some of the situations out there, especially in the political scene with the election in the US. You're seeing some negative things happening. What's your take on this? >> I'm much more skeptical than John and Charna. I feel like that kind of just blinkered, it's going to be great, is something you have to actually be in the tech industry and hearing all day to actually believe. I remember seeing kind of lay-person's exposure to Watson when Watson was on Jeopardy and hearing the questions reporters would ask and seeing the memes that would appear, and everyone's immediate reaction just to something as innocuous as a AI algorithm playing on a game show was to ask, is this Skynet from Terminator 2? Is this the computer from The Matrix? Is this HAL pushing us out of the airlock? Everybody immediately first goes to the tech is going to kill us. That's like everybody's first reaction, and it's weird. I don't know, you might say it's just because Hollywood has trained us to expect that plot development, but I almost think it's the other way around. Like that's a story we tell because we're deeply worried about our own meaning and obsolescence when we see how little these skills might be valued in 10, 20, 30 years. >> I can't tell you how much, by the way, Star Trek, Star Wars and Terminators probably affected the nomenclature of the technology. Everyone references Skynet. Oh my God, we're going to be taken over and killed by aliens and machines. This is a real fear. I thinks it's an initial reaction. You felt that Ken, so I've got to ask you, where do you think the crossover point is for people to internalize the benefits of say, AI for instance? Because people will say hey, look back at life before the iPhone, look at life before these tools were out there. Some will say society's gotten better, but yet there's this surveillance culture, things... And on and on. So what do you guys think the crossover point is for the reaction to change from oh my God, it's Skynet, gloom and doom to this actually could be good? >> It's incredibly tricky because as we've seen, the perception of AI both in and out of the industry changes as AI advances. As soon as machine learning can actually do a task, there's a tendency to say there's this no true Scotsman problem where we say well, that clearly can't be AI because I see how the trick worked. And yeah, humans lose at chess now. So when these small advances happen, the reaction is often oh, that's not really AI. And by the same token, it's not a game-changer when your email client can start to auto-complete your emails. That's a minor convenience to you. But you don't think oh, maybe Skynet is good. I really do think it's going to have to be, maybe the inflection point is when it starts to become so disruptive that actually public policy has to change. So we get serious about >> And public policy has started changing. >> whatever their reactions are. >> Charna, your thoughts. >> The public policy has started changing though. We just saw, I think it was in September, where California banned the use of AI in the body cameras, both real-time and after the fact. So I think that's part of the pivot point that we're actually seeing is that public policy is changing.` The state of Washington currently has a task force for AI who's making a set of recommendations for policy starting in December. But I think part of what we're missing is that we don't have enough digital natives in office to even attempt to, to your point Ken, predict what we're even going to be able to do with it, right? There is this fear because of misunderstanding, but we also don't have a respect of our political climate right now by a lot of our digital natives, and they need to be there to be making this policy. >> John, weigh in on this because you're director of AI, you're seeing positive, you have to deal with the uncertainty as well, the growth of machine learning. And just this week Google announced more TensorFlow for everybody. You're seeing Open Source. So there's a tech push, almost a democratization, going on with AI. So I think this crossover point might be sooner in front of us than people think. What's your thoughts? >> Yeah it's here right now. All these things can be essentially put into an environment. You can see these into products, or making business decisions or political decisions. These are all available right now. They're available today and its within 10 to 15 lines of code. It's all about the data sets, so you have to be really good stewards of the data that you're using to train your models. But I think the most important thing, back to the Skynet and all this science-fiction side, we have to collectively start telling the right stories. We need better stories than just this robots are going to take us over and destroy all of our jobs. I think more interesting stories really revolve around, what about public defenders who can have this informant augmentation algorithm that's going to help them get their job done? What about tailor-made medicine that's going to tell me exactly what the conditions are based off of a particular treatment plan instead of guessing? What about tailored education that's going to look at all of my strengths and weaknesses and present a plan for me? These are things that AI can do. Charna's exactly right, where if we don't get this into the right political atmosphere that's helping balance the capitalist side with the social side, we're going to be in trouble. So that's got to be embedded in every layer of enterprise as well as society in general. It's here, it's now, and it's real. >> Ken, before we move on to the ethics question, I want to get your thoughts on this because we have an Alexa at home. We had an Alexa at home; my wife made me get rid of it. We had an Apple device, what they're called... the Home pods, that's gone. I bought a Portal from Facebook because I always buy the earliest stuff, that's gone. We don't want listening devices in our house because in order to get that AI, you have to give up listening, and this has been an issue. What do you have to give to get? This has been a big question. What's your thoughts on all this? >> I was at an Amazon event where they were trumpeting how no technology had ever caught on faster than these personal digital assistants, and yet every time I'm in a use case, a household that's trying to use them, something goes terribly wrong. My friend had to rename his because the neighbor kids kept telling Alexa to do awful things. He renamed it computer, and now every time we use the word computer, the wall tells us something we don't want to know. >> (laughs) >> This is just anecdata, but maybe it speaks to something deeper, the fact that we don't necessarily like the feeling of being surveilled. IBM was always trying to push Watson as the star Trek computer that helpfully tells you exactly what you need to know in the right moment, but that's got downsides too. I feel like we're going to, if nothing else, we may start to value individual learning and knowledge less when we feel like a voice from the ceiling can deliver unto us the fact that we need. I think decision-making might suffer in that kind of a world. >> All right, this brings up ethics because I bring up the Amazon and the voice stuff because this is the new interface people want to have with machines. I didn't mention phones, Androids and Apple, they need to listen in order to make decisions. This brings up the ethics question around who sets the laws, what society should do about this, because we want the benefits of AI. John, you point out some of them. You got to give to get. Where are we on ethics? What's the opinion, what's the current view on this? John, we'll start with you on your ethics view on what needs to change now to move the ball faster. >> Data is gold. Data is gold at an exponential rate when you're talking about AI. There should be no situation where these companies get to collect data at no cost or no benefit to the end consumer. So ultimately we should have the option to opt out of any of these products and any of this type of surveillance wherever we can. Public safety is a little bit different situation, but on the commercial side, there is a lot of more expensive and even more difficult ways to train these models with a data set that isn't just basically grabbing everything our of your personal lives. I think that should be an option for consumers and that's one of those ethical check-marks. Again, ethics in general, the way that data's trained, the way that data's handled, the way models actually work, it has to be a primary reason for and approach of how you actually go about developing and delivering AI. That said, we cannot get over-indulgent in the fact that we can't do it because we're so fearful of the ethical outcomes. We have to find some middle ground and we have to find it quickly and collectively. >> Charna, what's your take on this? Ethics is super important to set the agenda for society to take advantage of all this. >> Yeah. I think we've got three ethical components here. We certainly have, as John mentioned, the data sets. However, it's also what behavior we're trying to change. So I believe the industry could benefit from a lot more behavioral science, so that we can understand whether or not the algorithms that we're building are changing behaviors that we actually want to change, right? And if we aren't, that's unethical. There is an entire field of ethics that needs to start getting put into our companies. We need an ethics board internally. A few companies are doing this already actually. I know a lot of the military companies do. I used to be in the defense industry, and so they've got a board of ethics before you can do things. The challenge is also though that as we're democratizing the algorithms themselves, people don't understand that you can't just get a set of data that represents the population. So this is true of image processing, where if we only used 100 images of a black woman, and we used 1,000 images of a white man because that was the distribution in our population, and then the algorithm could not detect the difference between skin tones for people of color, then we end up with situations where we end up in a police state where you put in an image of one black woman and it looks like ten of them and you can't distinguish between them. And yet, the confidence rate for the humans are actually higher, because they now have a machine backing their decision. And so they stop questioning, to your point, Ken, about what is the decision I'm making, they're like I'm so confident, this data told me so. And so there's a little bit of you need some expert in the loop and you also can't just have experts, because then you end up with Cambridge Analytica and all of the political things that happened there, not just in the US, but across 200 different elections and 30 different countries. And we are upset because it happened in the US, but this has been happening for years. So its just this ethical challenge of behavior change. It's not even AI and we do it all the time. Its why the cigarette industry is regulated (laughs). >> So Ken, what's your take on this? Obviously because society needs to have ethics. Who runs that? Companies? The law-makers? Someone's got to be responsible. >> I'm honestly a little pessimistic the general public will even demand this the way we're maybe hoping that they will. When I think about an example like Facebook, people just being able to, being willing to give away insane amounts of data through social media companies for the smallest of benefits: keeping in touch with people from high school they don't like. I mean, it really shows how little we value not being a product in this kind of situation. But I would like to see this kind of ethical decisions being made at the company-level. I feel like Google kind of surreptitiously moved away from it's little don't be evil mantra with the subtext that eh, maybe we'll be a little evil now. It just reminds me of Manhattan Project era thinking, where you could've gone to any of these nuclear scientists and said you're working on a real interesting puzzle here, it might advance the field, but like 200,000 civilians might die this summer. And I feel like they would've just looked at you and thought that's not really my bailiwick. I'm just trying to solve the fission problem. I would like to see these 10 companies actually having that kind of thinking internally. Not being so busy thinking if they can do something that they don't wonder if they should. >> That's a great point. This brings up the point of who is responsible. Almost as if who is less evil than the other person? Google, they don't do evil, but they're less evil than Amazon and Facebook and others. Who is responsible? The companies or the law-makers? Because if you look up some of the hearings in Washington, D.C., some of the law-makers we see up there, they don't know how the internet works, and it's pretty obvious that this is a problem. >> Yeah, well that's why Jack Dorsey of Twitter posted yesterday that he banned not just political ads, but also issue ads. This isn't something that they're making him do, but he understands that when you're using AI to target people, that it's not okay. At some point, while Mark is sitting on (laughs) this committee and giving his testimony, he's essentially asking to be regulated because he can't regulate himself. He's like well, everyone's doing it, so I'm going to do it too. That's not an okay excuse. We see this in the labor market though actually, where there's existing laws that prevent discrimination. It's actually the company's responsibility to make sure that the products that they purchase from any vendor isn't introducing discrimination into that process. So its not even the vendor that's held responsible, it's the company and their use of it. We saw in the NYPD actually that one of those image recognition systems came up and someone said well, he looked like, I forget the name of what the actor was, but some actor's name is what the perpetrator looked like and so they used an image of the actor to try and find the person who actually assaulted someone else. And that's, it's also the user problem that I'm super concerned about. >> So John, what's your take on this? Because these are companies are in business to make money, for profit, they're not the government. And who's the role, what should the government do? AI has to move forward. >> Yeah, we're all responsible. The companies are responsible. The companies that we work with, I have yet to interact with customers, or with our customers here, that have some insidious goal, that they're trying to outsmart their customers. They're not. Everyone's looking to do the best and deliver the most relevant products in the marketplace. The government, they absolutely... The political structure we have, it has to be really intelligent and it's got to get up-skilled in this space and it needs to do it quickly, both at the economy level, as well as for our defense. But the individuals, all of us as individuals, we are already subjected to this type of artificial intelligence in our everyday lives. Look at streaming, streaming media. Right now every single one of us goes out through a streaming source, and we're getting recommendations on what we should watch next. And we're already adapting to these things, I am. I'm like stop showing me all the stuff you know I want to watch, that's not interesting to me. I want to find something I don't know I want to watch, right? So we all have to get educated, we're all responsible for these things. And again, I see a much more positive side of this. I'm not trying to get into the fear-mongering side of all the things that could go wrong, I want to focus on the good stories, the positive stories. If I'm in a courtroom and I lose a court case because I couldn't afford the best attorney and I have the bias of a judge, I would certainly like artificial intelligence to make a determination that allows me to drive an appeal, as one example. Things like that are really creative in the world that we need to do. Tampering down this wild speculation we have on the markets. I mean, we are all victims of really bad data decisions right now, almost the worst data decisions. For me, I see this as a way to actually improve all those things. Fraud fees will be reduced. That helps everybody, right? Less speculation and these wild swings, these are all helpful things. >> Well Ken, John and Charna, thank- (audio feedback) >> Go ahead, finish. Get that word in. >> Sorry. I think that point you were making though John, is we are still a capitalist society, but we're no longer a shareholder capitalist society, we are a stakeholder capitalist society and the stakeholder is the society itself. It is us, it what we want to see. And so yes, I still want money. Obviously there are things that I want to buy, but I also care about well-being. I think it's that little shift that we're seeing that is actually you and I holding our own teams accountable for what they do. >> Yeah, culture first is a whole new shift going on in these companies that's a for-profit, mission-based. Ken, John, Charna, thanks for coming on Around the CUBE, Unpacking AI. Let's go around the CUBE Ken, John and Charna in that order, and just real quickly, unpacking AI, what's your final word? >> (laughs) I really... I'm interested in John's take that there's a democratization coming provided these tools will be available to everyone. I would certainly love to believe that. It seems like in the past, we've seen no, that access to these kind of powerful, paradigm-changing tools tend to be concentrated among a very small group of people and the benefits accrue to a very small group of people. But I hope that doesn't happen here. You know, I'm optimistic as well. I like the utopian side where we all have this amazing access to information and so many new problems can get solved with amazing amounts of data that we never could've touched before. Though you know, I think about that. I try to let that help me sleep at night, and not the fact that, you know... every public figure I see on TV is kind of out of touch about technology and only one candidate suggests the universal basic income, and it's kind of a crackpot idea. Those are the kind of things that keep me up at night. >> All right, John, final word. >> I think it's beautiful, AI's beautiful. We're on the cusp of a whole new world, it's nothing but positivity I see. We have to be careful. We're all nervous about it. None of us know how to approach these things, but as human beings, we've been here before. We're here all the time. And I believe that we can all collectively get a better lives for ourselves, for the environment, for everything that's out there. It's here, it's now, it's definitely real. I encourage everyone to hurry up on their own education. Every company, every layer of government to start really embracing these things and start paying attention. It's catching us all a little bit by surprise, but once you see it in production, you see it real, you'll be impressed. >> Okay, Charna, final word. >> I think one thing I want to leave people with is what we incentivize is what we end up optimizing for. This is the same for human behavior. You're training a new employee, you put incentives on the way that they sell, and that's, they game the system. AI's specifically find the optimum route, that is their job. So if we don't understand more complex cost functions, more complex representative ways of training, we're going to end up in a space, before we know it, that we can't get out of. And especially if we're using uninspectable AI. We really need to move towards augmentation. There are some companies that are implementing this now that you may not even know. Zillow, for example, is using AI to give you a cost for your home just by the photos and the words that you describe it, but they're also purchasing houses without a human in the loop in certain markets, based upon an inspection later by a human. And so there are these big bets that we're making within these massive corporations, but if you're going to do it as an individual, take a Coursera class on AI and take a Coursera class on ethics so that you can understand what the pitfalls are going to be, because that cost function is incredibly important. >> Okay, that's a wrap. Looks like we have a winner here. Charna, you got 18, John 16. Ken came in with 12, beaten again! (both laugh) Okay, Ken, seriously, great to have you guys on, a pleasure to meet everyone. Thanks for sharing on Around the CUBE Unpacking AI, panel number two. Thank you. >> Thanks a lot. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. I've been defeated by artificial intelligence again! (all laugh) (upbeat music)

>>Live from Denver, Colorado. It's the cube covering com vault go 2019 brought to you by Combalt. >>Hey, welcome back to the cube Lisa Martin with steam and man we are live on the show floor of comm vault go 2019 fourth annual event, a couple thousand customers here and Steve and I are welcoming back the COO of combo. Chris pal. Chris, welcome back. Thanks. Great to be here. We're excited to be here. We just came out of the keynote. Some interesting news to talk about but let's, let's to talk about what's happened. Combat is a 20 year young company, tremendous amount of acceleration in the last nine months. Lot of leadership changes he must be going to hold onto the table cause you got like the whiplash, right? So tell us, here we are at the fourth annual go news in terms of sales leadership changes go to market opportunities with metallic, with a new partner programs for the enterprise. Tell us what are some of the things that are exciting to you and how come vault is really in 20 FYE 2020 position? Like, Hey, we're listening to our customers and partners. >>Yeah, yeah. Well, and a lot of the things that you're seeing here at this show is just that it's, it's, it's market-driven. It's us responding to what we're seeing in the market, working with our partners. And a show like this is all about working with partners. Our customers and the, the announcements that we're making here are really releasing a completely new combo that the brand refresh that we've done just over the last month or so is been tied to a lot of the things that are changing with regards to the product portfolio. Uh, that Hedvig acquisition and a lot of the different leadership changes that you're seeing and the leadership changes are really driving a lot of this shift of focus. And really, I shouldn't say shift really extended focus for the organization from a technological standpoint as well as from working with our partners. >>Yeah, it's interesting. The news ahead of the show of metallic Convult now a SAS providers. So it's interesting to get you give us your, your view as a marketer. On the one hand you need to be the trusted enterprise supplier with a lot of customers. And the other one, you know, they've got cloud microservices, all the latest buzz words and you know sasses the model that a lot of customers want to be able to consume their software standpoint. So, so >>I know you have Rob Kalusi and who's going to be coming on. So I'll steal some of his thunder and I'll try not to steal too much to don't tell them the what excites me so much about the metallic product when leap, when we first started down this path, it was we, we really started looking at the market and the challenge that came from Sanjay when he just first entered the building really was we have industry leading technology. A lot of folks will talk about how we have industry leading technology. But if you really took a step back, you would have to have an honest view and say, sometimes they would say, well look, if it's a, if it's a really straight forward installation, maybe Commonwealth and might be a bit bring too much to the party, so why don't you look at some of the other solutions. >>And as we were talking to different customers out there, they were looking for SAS solutions and but they at the same time, they didn't want to make any compromises. And so much of the research that Rob and team working with Janet and with David, no, we're seeing is that as they were going out there, the Seuss solutions that were available today, and this sounds like marketing spin, right? But it's really what we were hearing back, that they weren't very good there, that they weren't SAS solutions. They're supposed to be easy. The customers really didn't see them as easy. They were running into scale issues, they were running into flexibility issues. So from the standpoint of building the solution, what we quickly realized is if we could reach Sanjay's challenge to us, which is bringing this fundamentally solid technology to a broader audience with a simplified use cases that there's a great opportunity for us to bring value to more companies. So that's, that's where this went. And then the beginning reviews of this as we brought this into beta and different people were seeing at different customers, different partners, they even came into the conversation a little bit pessimistic and they all left excited about what they were seeing. It's it's, it's really good. It's really good. >>So targeted towards mid market companies with around 2,500 or 500 to 2,500 employees. Give me just a little bit of a perspective on the choice that Commonweal is now offering the midmarket with complete backup and recovery. That's one of your flagship and metallic. >>So the the metallic offerings your men for some of the most common use cases that are out there. So 65 and the what we're, what we're trying to inject into the market and the target of 500 to 2,500 employees is really just where we see the sweet spot of most of the customers of those sizes are the ones that are looking at SAS solutions right now. But that's not to say as we've talked to larger enterprises, many of them are considering the addition of metallic as into their either subsidiaries or other areas of their business. And what Sanjay talks about, he sort of refers to as the data brain is really bringing this together where you can add SAS solutions onto your existing on prem solution. So if you're running combo complete, you can also be running metallic across other aspects of your business. So that's, that's one of the things that makes it powerful upmarket, but then we're also targeting the more common use cases that are more turnkey down-market. Yeah. >>Let's switch gears a little bit. So your team had a little bit of fun opening up the keynote. You had some of the stunt doubles a for Thor from Starwood and the woman has done both star Wars and Marvel on and talking about the unsung heroes behind the scenes. Kind of like your, your customers here. But there was another connection because they were vendors and con vault is, I believe it's the global Avengers and it has to do with sustainability, which I know is something near and dear to your heart. So explain a little bit about why that's important in what it is. >>So it's definitely a passion of mine and something that we accumbent are looking to every company as we're driving this should try to stand for something bigger than themselves. And as we look at this all started two years ago when we sponsored and I joined Robert Swan's expedition to the South pole. We were the data sponsor for that expedition and it was the first expedition to rely solely on renewable energy. And what has evolved from that from different conversations, we started having discussions throughout about the carbon footprint of data and with 5g the internet of things coming and more and more data on the horizon. The people that we're speaking with. And the reality I think that tech has come to is that we can't be part of the problem. We have to be part of the solution. So through a series of connections, we ended up speaking with the folks who were responsible for the UN global goals. Um, it's the 17 global goals around the world that were endorsed by all of the UN countries five years ago and there's 10 more years of it. And Kamahl is extremely proud to be joining some of the largest companies in the world. Coca Cola, Microsoft, Google, Salesforce, many in our industry and outside, obviously to sponsor one of the global global goals. But the way the program works is it 17 global goals and there's one company for each one of them in order to try to represent it and drive it forward. >>Chris, you actually took a few of us around the show floor before it opened last night. We know conferences can have a bit of an impact from a negative standpoint. So tell some of what Combolt's doing to make sure that this conference, you know, doesn't have such an impact. >>So as you mentioned before, it's about 2000 people that are here and I was shocked to learn and a lot of this is all in education. As you go through life, the, an event of this size typically will generate 25,000 pounds of rubbish of trash. So what we've done is partner with our good customer, which is the Gaylord Gaylord hotel systems and leaf put together a model where we're trying to minimize the overall footprint. So we donate a lot of what you see around here. Construction materials are donated to schools and local organizations. We're using all of the natural plants that will go back into the, uh, into the environment after this. Um, no plastic. I'm trying. And then the, uh, the cups you see here on the table are all plant based. So we're, we're trying to be very conscientious about everything that we're doing here at the show and minimize the footprint. >>When you're talking with customers, as I'm sure as cou are doing a lot, we talk, we often Sue and I and the rest of the cube crew. Sustainability is a topic that comes up at every event. We're, is that when you're talking with customers in any industry, whether it's healthcare or oil and gas, where is sustainability in >>terms of conversation? Is that one of the key things that comes up? That was also really important for Commonwealth to say, Hey, we want to be able to make sure that the technologies we're delivering are going to help our customers meet their sustainability goals. >>Absolutely. And it's, it's increasingly part of some, a number of RFPs. They will come in for Combalt. So they're there. Companies are looking to have us be able to really represent what our sustainability, what our corporate social responsibility systems are and what we put in place. And so we look at this through the lens of what do we do within our facilities? What do we do in events like this? And then also what can we do with our customers? So it's increasingly relevant and their sons of research, I'm sure you guys have seen the, the, as the millennial generation becomes more and more part of either significant influencers or decision makers, they're looking for companies that have a mission, you know, and that that stand for something all. >>So Chris, we're talking about sustainability is something you're passionate about. How does that tie into the broader brand discussion of Convolt companies going through, we talked about the executive change and you've got a lot of new products. So when people leave Combalt go 2019 how do you want them to think of Convult? >>That's a great question. I think what we're hoping that we were really using combo Alco as a combination of so many of the things that have been happening over the last couple of quarters. And certainly as I looked through what we're representing now, it's what are we as an organization, what's the story we're trying to tell? So we launched just in the last few weeks a new tagline, which is be ready. And that whole concept of data readiness is something that we're having within this show and it'll be in a lot of our messaging as we move forward. So this, I'm thinking of as the organization that enables you to be ready and then extending that should of saying, well what does that mean? And that's around how we protect the data, help you control where it resides, help you manage it for compliance and different regulatory needs, and then help you use it and get value from it. So that's the big takeaway we're hoping that people have. The other piece of this that we have each year is we expose people to such expertise here at the show. This is not combo talking about combo. 70% of our sessions in the breakout theaters are partners or customers or other influencers. So we want people to come here and really see convolve as data experts, as the people who are willing to work with them. >>Yeah. One little nugget you shared also, you've been growing. How many developers you bring from internal to the show. I have to think that Sanjay has a little bit of push from that based on his last. Yeah, yeah. >>Roll. Yeah. Certainly the DevOps community is increasingly, especially with some of the moves we've made in Hedvig, the dev community is going to be increasingly an audience for us to, to engage with. But the, we bring 45 developers to the show this year. It's about 40 from a combo and five more that have joined with Hedvig and they have 30 or 60 minute whiteboard sessions and they're completely jam packed. There's, I think last year there was over 150 whiteboard sessions over two days with customers just coming in and going through the details of this because a lot of organizations, they're there, they're faced with right now and in Sanjay's words, they have to move from something to something and they need people to be able to sit down and have honest conversations with them. Um, I joke with people sometimes that one of the terrible things that happened has happened to marketing with the advent of technology is we have to be truthful now when you know you can't, you can't just spin things. And so we're stuck having to tell the truth. But, but combo has a great truth that sets, we've got a really solid truth to tell. We just need to tell it. >>Well, and I love how marketing is so scientific these days. You're right, you have to tell the truth. But you also have, if you have the right foundation within your organization, the ability to access data actually glean insights from it, develop, whether it's a new partner program or new technologies, new routes to market. That's the power of that. Having visibility and access to the data can deliver to any type of organization. When you, when you talk with customers who've been, we've got some on the show today, Hey, we've been using Convolt for 10 years. When you talk to them today, this theme of be ready more than ready. How are they perceiving their foundation with combo and all of the changes that you've made, not just in the last 10 years, but in the last nine months alone. Which like customer feedback. Yeah, >>the customer feedback has been tremendous. I think they, they, so many customers are something that's so great about combo. Does our customers want us to succeed and they, they see this market shifting tremendously. They've been with us for a while and they want us to succeed. When they look at the changes that they're having to overcome, they're excited about really beginning to learn that as they move from something to something that we can help them on that journey. That they don't have to go somewhere else for that journey. So whether that's looking into SAS areas, whether it's modernizing their infrastructure, whether it's moving to multi-cloud and those environments, we, we have the right solutions in the right way for them to be able to make this transition for their company. So >>Chris, we're relatively early still in this show, so I hate to ask, but give us a little bit of a go forward. Lot of change in the last nine months. What should your customers be expecting from comm vault through the rest of the year? And by the time we come back to Convolt go 20, 20? >>Well, I think when you talk to Sanjay, he always says, puts me back on my heels a little bit and tells me that it's a, there's more coming, there's more coming, we're going to keep going. So it, Sanjay is a very dynamic leader and he's looking to make sure that the company isn't just driving to combo go and then it's going to sort of be smooth sailing with these things. I think this is an exciting time to be here at combo. This is an exciting time to be in the industry. So as we look forward to, um, the new leadership that's come in and some of the things they'll be able to do in terms of our go to market, I think we're going to be exciting. Avinash coming into this organization and his expertise, his skill set and all of the brilliant engineers he's, he's brought in to sort of join our industry leading engineering team. Uh, it's, it's going to be, uh, I can't wait to see what they come up with from a marketing standpoint. You know, we, we had a solid product for a number of years, but it's always challenging to sort of continue to tell a story and come up with new ways to tell it. As you get new things in your, in your box to be able to talk about, it's, it's great to be here. >>Well, Chris, we want to thank you for joining us on the queue today. We're excited about the next two days of all of the folks, leaders, new leaders, customers, partners that we're going to be talking to you and really unpacking what being ready means to them. So we thank you for your time and we look forward to a great event. Thanks very much for Steven. Amen. I am Lisa Martin. You're watching the Q from ball go 19.

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, celebrating ten years of high-tech coverage, it's theCUBE! Covering VMworld, 2019. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Kay welcome back everyone, live CUBE coverage here at VMworld 2019 in San Francisco, we're in Moscone North lobby, I'm John Furrier. My cohost Stu Miniman. We're here with two great guests, David Appel, Vice President C2 Space and Intelligence and Defense, Civil Solutions at Raytheon, and Gil Shneorson, who's the senior vice president general manager of VxRail, of Dell EMC, great to have Raytheon, anything with space Stu and I get jacked up for that. Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah I appreciate it, thank you, I'm glad to be here. >> Gil, VxRail, got a customer here, impressive role out. Talk about the story. >> Well I think it starts with the fact that we have recently announced our support for Pivotal community services over VMware Cloud Foundation over VxRail which has actually the only Q-rated automated stacking industry that allows people to leverage containers and infrastructure as a service on one stack and we've been doing this for about three years now in a different way called Pivotal Ready Architecture and Raytheon has actually adopted that architecture to help their customer, the air force. And that's why we're here today together to talk about you know. >> Seriously modernization couldn't be a more important conversation in government solutions, you guys are a big provider, Raytheon, known for the tech chops, known for having good engineering. Talk about the solution, what you guys did, what's the use case, talk about the deployment. >> Yes with what's going on with the federal government for a while is the acquisition processes and what's taking sometimes years or decades to get software in the field is causing a lot of unmet requirements and needs of the ultimate user, the war fighters out in the field, to be met. So we've been on a journey for the last two years with Pivotal and Dell of how to help the air force, modernize the air force has gone under a transformation and a program called Kessel Run which is where we've deployed the Pivotal Ready Architecture to allow us to quickly deploy an infrastructure and allow us to focus on the end users and develop the capabilities that they need worldwide. And what took years and to now months and days so it's been a fantastic journey. >> Tell us what that means for the folks that might not know the pace of the procurement process. I mean some of this stuff is like 1995 procurement rules. I mean modernization these days is such an important part of it because the impact is significantly relevant. Share some color into the process. >> If you think about in the commercial world today where hundreds of applications be deployed overnight and updates on the what, hourly basis. In the government space it can literally take years to define a requirement, then you have to go through a budgeting cycle all the way up through congress and then you have to go through an acquisition cycle that could take a year to complete and so by the time you're actually fielding capability it is literally five years or more by the time the need was actually identified. And in that five years the technology probably changed which means your solution has probably changed from what's currently available. So shortening the cycles is what it's all about. >> And that's really about having the right product at the right time, not the old product five years ago. How fast things change, it's pretty important to have that nailed down. >> It's pretty amazing and you know I think you look at transformation and there's usually a trade off. What we have been working on and what we're announcing but really what we've been leaving over the last four years is a way to transform but stay close to your core. In other words transformation without trade offs. And so if you can get your VMware stack now running containers in a fully managed automated stack you don't have to change your skill set and you can do all of that and start innovating while staying very close to your core competency. You know you transform but you don't have to go too far and I think the story what Raytheon did is fairly amazing because they turned, you know, what did you tell me, a 50-year-old process, you know in like in less than half a year you turned automated systems that you know saves the US air force a lot of money. >> And lives too, are saved. I mean you're talking about people in the field, this is about people's lives too, I mean this is the money making. >> And it's been about transforming the culture of the way the DoD does software and the first example that Gil is mentioning was tanker planning which was the ability for the air force to refuel flight missions in the air, would typically take over eight hours to plan. And it was done by a white board. It was done manually. And in order to automate that and shrink the time, again that would have gone to that five year procurement cycle. We were able to deploy new applications using the Pivotal-ready architecture within 150 days and get those out worldwide to the field. That's done two things. It's from a financial perspective it's saving over $200,000 a day in just fuel costs from optimizing the tanker planning. But more importantly it's actually more efficient and protecting the safety of those flight crews. They're not in the air as long, they might not be in a hostile environment as long, so the security of the air force is even more important. >> As Pivotal always says they're outcome driven and that's pretty good outcome. I mean talk about the impact that you've had on everyone else around you because I'm sure there's some blockers in your way, people's feathers got ruffled, but then people see success they want to come copy it, right? So that's a pattern you see in a lot of government work. Hey there's a new way to do it, modern way. >> Yeah so our hindsight we're seeing it in two ways. One from a broader DoD perspective. The air force was out front here. They established this and from a DoD perspective what they're calling their Kessel Run initiative is really taking off. You're seeing other Kessel Run like programs being stood up like a program called Kobayashi Maru and Rogue Blue and a few others across DoD. So it's proliferating out across the DoD from a customer perspective, DoD customer perspective. From an industry perspective you know our competitors are quickly trying to catch up to us and they're trying to, you know, copy our playbook but we're continuing to innovate and continue on this journey so we're moving ahead with Pivotal and Dell. >> First of all David I think Pat Gelsinger must have been talking to your team because you're mashing up Star Wars and Star Trek with Kessel Run and Kobayashi there. But talk about mashing up, the stack that you're putting together, VxRail was really built around simplicity. It delivers that, that's what hyperconverged infrastructure does. You start talking about VCF and containers and PKS on that, Kubernetes nobody says is simple, but you know help us walk through, you know, how simple is it for you to leverage and deploy this. You've got organizational challenges and other things, so, you know, where is the solution, it sounds like you use the ready node, and where directionally is it headed? >> Yeah let me answer from this perspective. So we started this journey with Pivotal and the air force about two years ago. And at that time we started with a group of probably a dozen or less folks that actually even understood the technology or the products and the solutions that Dell and Pivotal bring forward. In those two years we're now up to over 100 people. Fully embracing the technology. It's creating an environment where it's easier for us to recruit and retain people because it's modern, it's not the old ways we used to do business. And we're finding that it's been very easy to deploy, very easy to train people up and very easy to operate. So from that perspective it's just been fantastic from not just the technology perspective but also the cultural transformation perspective. >> Yeah Gil I'd love you to comment on that because you know remember gosh when CI and HCI first rolled out you know the people that had those jobs were worried we were going to take their jobs away. Now when I hear your customer talking about, you know, it's easy to train them and even easier for me to recruit and retain, a powerful story. Are you hearing that across your customer base? >> Yeah I'll tell you what's a little different. In the past we have simplified things and we've made work somewhat go away but there was no alternative work. Today every developer, every IT person, they can't wait to go and be a dev ops person, right? So for IT when we come in and we say we're going to take this off your plate so you can free up your time, it really means something now, 'cause they know exactly what they want to do. They want to go and they want to be dev ops, they want to develop new apps, they want to move forward. And so it's very syngergistic in a way that we offload some of the burden from them and they actually do free up to do cooler stuff and then they like it. >> And they get to keep their traditional apps, with containers, gives them great capabilities. Not the throwaway. >> And that's a great point I think as I said before and it's really important to convey this, the transformation without trade offs is a big deal because they can keep the application. They can run the same environment. Right in our case they can do it you know at ease and in remote locations all over the world with less management. And at the same time they can innovate and manage those environments. And I think as long as we can keep that up we'll make a lot of people productive. >> Well I got to ask David the security question because one of the things that comes up all the time obviously Department of Defense, security's top of mind. Industrial IOT are now not just malware getting in for credit card information, you're talking about actual equipment, you're talking about flights in the air, hacking with physical things is a concern and it's a big IOT kind of conversation. You're in the middle of that, this is your world. What's your thoughts on the security? >> You know so we've obviously had to go through that in order to get authority to operate to push things into theater and one of the strongest benefits we've seen is the dev ops process and the platforms has all that security built in and all the testing as we're going through it. So the thousands of tests that are running as new threats are identified, the platform is updating with the latest patches or whatever it may be, so. >> John: On the automation stuff? >> On the automation side of it. So we're actually seeing a lot of the security, I don't want to call it risks go away, but our ability to mitigate them is being built into the software itself. So we haven't seen an issue yet where we haven't been able to get things authority to operate and push it out to the field, so. >> There's a high bar there too, obviously. >> It's a very high bar, very high bar, and that was part of the also the challenge of getting systems fielded in months and days versus years because of the ability to get that operations. >> Now this is a really big story I think. First of all Raytheon's a well-known brand, but, the modernization of getting stuff into theater and or into your production theater, military operations, that's a big deal, I mean, I think people don't really understand that aren't in government how fast this happens. I think that's a real testament to the solution, so I mean. >> Well the powerful thing to it is the national defense strategy is all about capability at the speed of relevance, and that's all about technology. Future wars aren't going to be decided by the size of your army or the size of your arsenal. It's going to be about how do you get data to decision makers faster and how do they can act faster. And that's where software and this infrastructure we're putting in place and putting capabilities in the hands of people that need it faster. That's what it's all about. >> And you know Secretary Matthis who was former Secretary of Defense said 48% of all the casualties are usually frontline war fighters. And that's where the technology edges so to speak. So again this is such a cutting edge topic, talk about it for days. How do you feel about this? This is pretty exciting. >> I'm just happy that every time I come into theCUBE, this is the second time I do it with a customer, you give me the opportunity to learn, you know, have a deeper relationship with one of my of probably now 7,000 customers. Which you know is really hard to keep up with these days and so you know we make technologies for people to use and when you see it in the field doing good it's a great thing. >> Well it's a transformation story. It's really a great transformation story. They have to, making a difference. >> Great, David, would love to hear, you know, what's on your ask for your partners that are deploying. Kind of give us a look forward roadmap that you can share. >> Yeah again I go back to everything we're about right now is speed and and getting capability faster. Currently in our marketplace right now we're fully embracing agile dev ops and everything it takes to deploy software from that perspective. Moving into things like artificial intelligence and machine learning and autonomy are the big things that are on our horizon from a technology perspective. And as our partners are in those areas and can help us bring more capability in that, that's going to help our end customer, the DoD, faster as well, so. >> What's the big takeaway from VMworld this year for you guys? What's the big observation? >> I'll be honest this is my first time at VMware. I'm amazed, I was at Dell Technology World a few months ago, I've really enjoyed it, I think it's a great event. And I'm just enjoying learning all the technologies so, it's, I've enjoyed the day. >> Gil what's your big takeaway? >> Well I'm part of the family. So I'm a little more familiar and even for me-- >> Whoever: You were briefed. >> No, no, even for me the rate of innovation that Vmworld puts out there is amazing. Right and you see how everything plugs together and you see how the vision keeps being, you know, completed, right, and we're in a good spot in the sense that we actually have what people need right now. And we do it better than everybody else. And you'd think that being number one in almost every category you'd be sitting there complacent and no, you know, we keep pushing the envelope, doing more innovating, more integrating more, so it's very exciting to see what's happening. >> Well great story here, Raytheon congratulations for your success I think it's super important to have a prepared military, certaintly, and saving lives and doing it in a modern way is kind of of a miracle these days in government, so congratulations. >> And I thank our partners for continuing to innovate 'cause that's helping us so. >> All right, great story, CUBE coverage here, Vmworld 2019, I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. We'll be back with more after this short break. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Live, from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS re:Inforce 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage in Boston, Massachusetts, here for two days, AWS Amazon Web Services re:Inforce, their inaugural conference around security. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, our next guest Andy Miller. Senior director, global public cloud at Sophos. Based out of the UK and here in Burlington, Massachusetts. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Looking good, love that jacket, nice color on you! (all laughing) >> I got the memo. >> You got the memo! >> Blue jacket! >> Thanks for having me, it's great to be here. It's great to be a part of AWS's first security event, security focused event, not by coincidence, happening right here where our US headquarters is. We're very excited to be a part of it. Wanted to share with you guys, I brought you a little gift. Socks are definitely a part of our-- >> Thank you, love the socks. >> Okay, I'm wearing them tomorrow. So we'll do a little close up on that. >> They're mostly clean. >> Thank you very much. Stu Miniman will love this, he loves socks. He'll replace his Star Wars socks with those. >> Thank you, Andy. >> Andy, thanks, so I want to get your impression of the show, obviously, inaugural event. And it's interesting, you look at Amazon, we've been covering Amazon for eight years with theCUBE, prior to that, just as a company, love the company, obviously, the success of cloud is a no-brainer. But re:Invent is their name of their global conference on the commercial side, for all their customers. And everything else they call summits. This is not a summit, this is not an Amazon Web Services summit, this is a branded event with the word re, not invent, but re:Inforce so gives that call out. Good call on their front? Is it needed? Why is this show so important, what's your opinion on that? >> I think it absolutely is, it's very helpful to customers to help them to understand their responsibilities when it comes to security in the cloud. And just like re:Invent was essentially reinventing the network into a digital environment, this is reinforcing their environment and understanding what their responsibilities are, where the cloud provider's very secure infrastructure ends and where their responsibilities with applications and data that resides in the cloud starts. >> What does your data show in terms of the evolving threat landscape? I mean, there's one school of thought that says okay, security in the cloud, actually, well it was a concern early on, people say oh it's better. That maybe raises the bar and lowers the ROI for the bad guys, but what are you seeing? But at the same time it's more global and distributed which opens up holes. What are your guys seeing? >> So, what we're seeing is that, the cloud's interesting in that there's not necessarily anything that is new or unique from an attack perspective. It's more of an attack surface perspective. And what I mean by that is is that, with an on premise environment, sometimes controls are very easy to place around new instances, new workloads being stood up, a change control process that is very controlled, key carded data centers and so forth. Cloud accounts operate very differently and one of the things that makes the cloud great is the speed at which you can go to market and stand up new resources, that also creates challenges for customers when it comes to visibility and securing those assets. >> Yeah, I mean the guy from Liberty Mutual today in the keynote, said his number one challenge is just keeping up with Amazon, the pace of change, you're seeing that in your client base? And how are they dealing with it? >> Absolutely, one of the conversations that I frequently have with customers when it comes to the visibility and keeping up with angle is, I frequently will say to customers, pull out your cloud bill, if you are aware of and know everything that is on that bill and where it came from, frankly I'd be very surprised. A lot of them struggle with that, with being able to keep up with that. And it's again a double edged sword, it's great as far as a business standpoint and being able to extend your business globally within minutes, but it's also a challenge for them from a security standpoint. >> And you talk about the challenges that businesses are up against when it comes to cloud security because on premises has decades of experiences dealing with security, the old days of perimeter based security, some still do that. Now the perimeter's pretty much gone away with cloud, cloud native has a different approach. So there seems to be a lot of questions around what to do, what are those challenges in cloud security specifically, that businesses face? >> So, you hit the first one, right? The first one is this concept of I build a castle and put a big wall around it and a moat around it, no longer exists, right? The perimeter is a memory. Another one is, as I mentioned before, the speed at which resources are added to the cloud, that's difficult for customers 'cause you can't see it, you can't secure it, right? If you don't know it exists. And then the third thing is really being able to understand how you make security happen within the cloud because those tools that you used on premise and in your own perimeter, don't necessarily exactly translate to the cloud. And it's important to have solutions that are designed for that and that not only work and operate well within the cloud but also don't take away the benefits of the cloud. If you have a solution that's going to slow you down or make it where you can't innovate at the speed of the cloud, you might as well keep it on prem, you're taking away all the benefit of the cloud. >> So, are you finding, a lot of times, the early cloud days with a lot of so called crapplications, just going to the cloud, okay. So maybe not as much credit card information, so maybe it's not as valuable, but are you seeing, people hitting the cloud more today than, say, certain on prem environments? Is it escalating, what does your data show? >> So, there was a study done not too long ago that showed past and projected cloud growth from 2017 to 2022. And what was interesting was the cloud services revenue growth was expected to grow by double, the cloud security spending was expected to grow by more than three times. And we think that was in large part of customers understanding their responsibilities in the shared security model, but also a product of exactly what you say, crapplications, right? One of our first customers that I think of was a convenience store chain, the very first things they moved, store locator and nutritional information applications. If something went wrong with those, yes, it's not great for your business if they can't find your store, but it's not credit card data, it's not personal information so on and so forth. As businesses start moving really key to the business applications, ERP systems, things like that, with real data that's at risk, that's where their focus on security is real strong. >> So there's a lot of confusion out there. And as I walk around the show floor here, I see, we secure the cloud, we the secure the cloud, no we secure the cloud! And I hear from Amazon we have a shared responsibility model, we secure the infrastructure, a lot of customers think, hey, Amazon has great security, so does Google, so does Microsoft, I'll put it in the cloud, I'll be good to go. Help us clear up some of that confusion, what's your point of view on that? >> Yeah, I think that when you look at it, customers were at one point extremely afraid of the cloud. And the cloud providers themselves did a great job of talking about why you could trust their infrastructure. In the process, I think customers have a difficult time understanding where their responsibility begins. And what we always like to say is, the cloud provider's responsible for the security of the cloud, you, Mr. Customer, are responsible for the security in the cloud. And the reason that's important is, the fact is the cloud providers could potentially provide the security in the cloud, but the measure of control that they would have over the applications that you build, the applications that you deploy, who you give access to and what you allow them to do would be so great, I don't think it would be a really positive experience for customers. >> Too many permutations. Just 'cause, criticism early on in cloud security wasn't that the security was bad, it was that, I couldn't enforce the edicts of my organization, there weren't enough features and now today, it's like you're drinking from this fire hose of features. So is that really the issue? It's up to you to figure out what works for your organization and then apply it. We heard today, you've got to opt in for things like encryption. Make sure you opt in to each availability zone. So that's a individual customer choice. Amazon provides the tools, okay, but then where do you pick up? Where does Sophos pick up? >> So, that's a great segue, so, as an example, our new Sophos Cloud Optics product does a great job with that, for instance uses the AWS CIS benchmarks. And that is a heavy heavy document that may be difficult for a customer to ingest, but we can run it against all of your workloads, your S3 buckets and see that you're in compliance with that CIS benchmark policy. That's a great place to start. Maybe you have some compliance regulations that you have to follow that have a security component to it such as BCI for example. And they would lead you towards things like identity and access management, they would lead you towards, am I following a good password policy? A good updating policy, am I sure that my S3 buckets are encrypted and not accessible to the internet without some sort of protection in place? All those things. >> The evolving cloud security landscape's changing on the threats side. You've got now detection, alerts, all these things are going on. You guys have some data on the cyber criminal activity. Up, down, is it more complex, harder to crack? Is there people cracking it? Certainly we know people are always trying, you can attack anything, we've seen foreign states enabling these groups out there, you've seen all kinds of cyber criminals, what's the data showing? >> So, the data shows, I think the most compelling thing. We did a study that we commissioned earlier this year where we placed workloads in 10 of AWS's most popular data centers around the world. And what we saw was, the first attempt to compromise one of those assets took all of 52 seconds. 52 seconds after we launched it there was an attempt to compromise it. More compelling was the fact that, on average it took a sum total of 40 minutes was the average time before an attempt to compromise took place. And, on top of that, once the asset was discovered, on average every 13 times every single minute of every single hour of every single day over a 30 day period, someone was attempting to compromise this. We ended up totalling over five million attempted compromises in a 30 day period on 10 assets. So, I think the biggest thing is not so much the techniques, but the level of automation that the bad guys have going on, they know that there are assets out there, that are not in a state that they necessarily should be and they are doing their level best to find them as absolutely quick as possible. >> What makes the cloud so attractive to the cyber criminals? >> I think the biggest thing is that as customers go from the crapplication into some real applications, they know that there is a lot of data there. They also know that customers are, well this is a newer platform for them, and they may be struggling with understanding exactly what they need to do differently than they did on prem in order to secure it. >> So follow up on that, how do you approach cloud security and how is different than on prem? >> So, the biggest difference is can it work within the fabric of the cloud? Is there tight integration with the things that the cloud providers offer? And do you not in any way hamper the great things about the cloud, scalability, the option to be available in a matter of seconds? If you are hampering that, then that's not security that's really going to work well, it's the whole benefit of the cloud in the first place, right? >> So sum up your cloud solution, what's the big problem that you guys solve? >> So, we have several different solutions that are available from a next generation firewall to our host protection. Our newest offering Sophos Cloud Optics, is really about helping them to gain that visibility, to understand exactly what they have running in the cloud, present a topology map that shows them how it connects, how it communicates, both internally and to the outside world. And then to constantly and continuously evaluate where they are in a security posture. >> So that's visibility into threats? >> Yep and for posture as well. >> Help look for quality alerts. >> Yep. >> Okay, so what's the customer orientation right now? Red, yellow, green? (he laughs) It seems to me it's always red. We asked someone earlier, what's a good day in security? And it's like, when we're still in business. There's a lot of pressure, again, hacking just shows you, it's easy to attack, certainly seconds to minutes, things are being compromised. It's going to happen on premise as well. What's the state of the union in your view? >> I think for customers there is a feeling sometimes and I think we as security vendors need to be careful about this, of not presenting the world as impossible to secure because I believe that it is absolutely possible to secure the world. I think there are some things that customers need to do, I think it's difficult for them sometimes to cut through some of the misinformation, the marketing spin and so on and so forth that's out there, but it's really incumbent upon them to look and read through the materials that are provided by the cloud providers to understand where their responsibilities begin and end. And then find the solutions that they've always used on prem and been successful with, that are ported to the cloud. And if they're not ported to the cloud to look for a different vendor. >> So why Sophos? >> So, Sophos has been around for 30 years. We have along history, we've been a security company, always a security company. And we have frankly what is a rather long track record in the cloud, we first ported our firewall to the cloud six years ago, we've continued to innovate in the cloud. We are able to do things that other vendors are not to support things that customers want to do, autoscaling, outbound gateway, things like that. And we continue to innovate that platform as well as add key pieces to our platform such as our Cloud Optics, which interestingly enough, came to us as we were shopping for it as a customer to support our own central infrastructure that runs in AWS. Our security guys thought, hey we need a product that will help us with visibility and posture management. And then they turned to the organization and said, hey this is great product, we ought to look at buying this company and that's how that acquisition came about. >> And so what's new with the company? What's going on, what are you guys doing? Got a lot here at Amazon, what other things you working on that's important to tell? >> Yeah, we're basically at this point, with that acquisition of Optics happened, it was a company called Avid Secure. That just went down in January this year, we released in the first week of April. Our own skinned Sophos version of the product. And we're really looking to continue that innovation. Our theme this year for our company was evolve. We feel that as the world evolves, security evolves and we have to evolve as well. And so there's a real focus on constantly evolving our products, innovating and trying to stay one step ahead of the bad guys, unfortunately. >> Andy, you've been around, we've been around, we've seen all waves come and go. Client server mainframe all the way back into those days to now. What do you think the most important story in the security industry is these days? What needs to be told that either is being told or needs to be amplified or isn't being told, what do you think's the high order bid in terms of the most important story? >> I think there's two fronts to that. One is as I mentioned, evolve was a big point of discussion in our internal meetings as well as our partner conferences. And helping customers to understand that their world has to evolve as well. The idea of a perimeter for instance, there are lot of companies that still try to stick to that idea of I can build a wall around my business. And the reality is is between mobile devices, between every employee practically has a laptop now, the idea of keeping that castle wall around your business is just unrealistic and so, customers have to understand that. They also have to understand that a migration to the cloud is inevitable and the sooner that they embrace that, the sooner they'll get the benefits of it and the sooner that they can begin the journey to the cloud. We feel it's inevitable. >> Andy, great insight, the evolving security threat landscape here on theCUBE. Live coverage covering AWS re:Inforce. Be right back with more after a short break, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, we'll be right back.

>> Announcer: Live from Washington D.C. It's theCUBE! Covering AWS Public Sector Summit. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of AWS Public Sector here in beautiful Washington D.C. Springtime in D.C., there's no better time to be here. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, co-hosting along with John Furrier, always so much fun to work with you. >> Great to see you. >> And this is a very exciting event for you in particular 'cause you've been doing a lot of great reporting around the modernization of IT in government. I'd love to have you just start riffing, John. What's on your mind right now coming into this show? What are some of the questions that're burning? >> I mean clearly the most important story that needs to be told and is being talked about here in D.C. in the tech world is, for this show specifically, is the JEDI contract, the Joint Enterprise Defense Initiative. It's a word that's not being kicked around at this show because-- >> Rebecca: Nothing to do with Star Wars. >> It's literally the elephant in the room because the contract's been waiting, Oracle's been dragging it on and Oracle's been part of apparently, my opinion from my reporting, is involved in some dirty under-handed tactics against Amazon. But it's being delayed because they're suing it. And Oracle's out. They have no chance of winning the deal, it's really Microsoft and Amazon are going to get a lion's share of the business. So you have, that's the biggest story in tech in D.C. in a long time, is the role of cloud computing is playing in reshaping how government, public sector operates. Combine that with the fact that a new generation of workers are coming in who have no dogma around IT technology, how it's bought or consumed and purchased, and the overcharging that's been going on for many many years, it's been called the Beltway Bandits for a reason because of the waste and sometimes corruption. So a new generation's upon us and Amazon is the leader in making the change happen. The deal they did with the CIA a few years ago really was the catalyst. And since then, public sector and the government has realized that there's advantages to cloud, not only for operating and serving society and its citizens but also competitiveness on a global scale. So a huge transformation, that's the story we're following. That's the story that we got into from the cloud side of the business here in D.C. and that is just raging and expanding and compounded by other factors like Facebook. Irresponsibility in how they managed the data there. Elections were tied in the balance. You're seeing Brexit in the UK. You're seeing counter-terrorism organizations using the dark web and other cyber security challenges at the United States. Literally digital war is happening so a lot of people, smart people, have recognized this and it's now for the first time coming out. >> Right, and I think the other thing that we're also starting to talk much more about is the regulation. I know that you're friendly with Kara Swisher and she bangs on about this all the time. But then she said in a column the other day the problem is is that they're now guns ablazing but do they really understand it? And also, is it too feeble, too little too late? >> I mean, Kara Swisher nailed her story in the New York Times and opinion piece. And I've had similar opinions. Look it. She's been around for a long time, I've been around for a long time. I remember when Bill Clinton was president, that's when the internet was upon us, the Department of Commerce did a good job with the domain name system, they shepherded the technology and they brought it out in a way that was responsible and let government and industry have a nice balancing act with each other and the government really didn't meddle too much. But there was responsibility back then and it wasn't moving as fast. So now you look at what's happening now, the government can't just not ignore the fact that YouTube is, in essence, its own state. And it's acting irresponsibly with how they're handling their situation. You got Facebook run by a 30-something-year-old, which essentially could be as large as a government. So there's no ethics, there's no thinking behind some of the consequences that they've become. So this begs the question, as a technology hock myself, I love tech, never seen tech I didn't like. I mean I love tech. But there's a point where you got to get in there and start shaping impact on ethics and society and we're seeing real examples of how this can wildfire out of control, how tech has just become uncontrollable in a way. >> Yes, no absolutely. And so who is going to be the one to do that? I know that on the show later you're going to be talking to Jay Carney who was obviously in the Obama administration, now here at AWS. It's a well-worn path from the public sector to technology. Susan Molinari, a couple of other, David Plouffe. That is the thing though, that these people really need to get it. Before they can lay down regulations and laws. >> Again, back to why we're here and stories we're trying to tell and uncover and extract is I think the big story that's emerging from this whole world is not just the impact of cloud, we talked about that, we're going to continue to cover that. It's the societal impact and this real there there, there's the intersection of public policy and technology and science where you don't have to be a programmer, you can be an architect of change and know how it works. Then being a coder and trying to codify a government or society. I think you're going to see a new kind of skillset emerge where there's some real critical thinking into how technology can be used for good. You're seeing the trends, Hackathon For Good here, you're seeing a lot of different events where you have inclusion and diversity, bringing more perspectives in. So you got the perfect storm right now for a sea change where it won't be led by the nerds, so to speak, but geeky digital generations will change it. I think that's going to be a big story. Not just workforce changeover but real disciplines around using machine-learning for ethics, societal impact. These are the storylines. I think this is going to be a big long 10-year, 20-year changeover. >> But what will it take though? For the best and the brightest of the nerds to want to go into public service rather than go work for the tech behemoths that are making these changes? I mean that's the thing, it's a war for talent and as we know and we've discussed a lot on theCUBE, there's a big skills gap. >> I think it's been talked about a lot on the web, the millennials want to work for a company that's mission-based. What more mission-based can you look for than so unto our public service right now? John F. Kennedy's famous line, "Ask not what your country can do for you, "what you can do for you country." That might have that appeal for the younger generation because we need it! So the evidence is there and you look at what's going on with our government. There's so many inefficiencies from healthcare to tax reform to policies. There's a huge opportunity to take that waste, and this is what cloud computing and AI and machine-learning can do, is create new capabilities and address those critical waste areas and again, healthcare is just one of many many many others in government where you can really reduce that slack with tech. So it's a great opportunity. >> And where would you say, and I know you've been reporting on this for a long time, where is the government in terms of all of this? I remember not very long ago when healthcare.gov was rolled out and it was revealed that many agencies were still using floppy disks. The government is, first of all is not this monolithic thing, it's many different agencies all with their own tech agendas and with their own processes and policies. So where do you place the government in terms of its modernization right now? >> On the elected officials side, it's weak. They're really not that smart when it comes to tech. Most of the people that are involved in the elected side of the Hill are either lawyers or some sort of major that's not technical. So you can see that with Sundar Pichai from Google and Mark Zuckerberg's testimony when the basic kind of questions they're asking, it's almost a joke. So I think one, the elected officials have to become more tech-savvy. You can't regulate and govern what you don't understand. I think that something that's pretty obvious to most digital natives. And then on the kind of working class, the Defense Department and these other agencies, there's real people in there that have a passion for change and I think there's change agents, Amazon's done really well there. I think that is a piece where you're going to see a movement, where you're going to see this digital native movement where people going to be like, "There's no excuse not to do this right." And I think there's new ways to do it, I think that's going to change. So that's that. On the business side, to how the government procures technology is literally like the '80s, it's like that movie "Hot Tub Time Machine" where you get thrown back. Everything is based on 1980s procurement, 1990s procurement. I mean, shipping manuals. So all these things have to change. How do you procure cloud? If you got to go through a six-month procurement process just to spit up some servers, that's not agility. So procurement's got to change. Competitiveness, what does that mean? This Oracle deal with JEDI highlights a lot of flaws in the government. Which is Oracle's using these rules around procurement to try to stall Amazon, it's kind of like a technicality but it's so irrelevant to the reality of the situation. So procurement has to change. >> Well one of the things you said about how there's a lot of pressure to get it right. And that is absolutely true because we are dealing with national security issues, people's lives, health, these really important topics. And yet the private sector doesn't always get it right the first time either. So how would you describe the government, the federal approach to how they start to implement these new technologies and experiment with other kinds of tools and techniques? >> Well I think there's obviously some agencies that have sensitive things. CIA's a poster child in my opinion of how to do it right. The JEDI, Department of Defense is emulating that and that's a good thing. The Department of Defense is also going multicloud as they put out in their statement. Amazon for the JEDI piece which is for troops in the field. I think that every agency's going to have its own workload and those workloads should decide which cloud to use based upon the architecture of the workload. 'Cause the data needs to be in the cloud, it needs to be real time. And to take the military example, you can't have lag in military, it's not a video game, it's real life, people die. Lag can literally kill people in the field. So technology can be a betterment there but technology to avoid fighting is another one. So you have all these things going on, I think the government's got to really design everything around the workload, their mission, their applications, rather than designing around here's your infrastructure, then decide. >> One of the things we talk about all the time, almost ad nauseam, on theCUBE is digital transformation. And so how do you think about those two, private sector versus public sector? What are the big differences in terms of these institutions on their own journeys of digital transformation? >> I think the government's slower. That's an easy one to talk about. I think there's a lot of moving parts involved, you mentioned some of the procurement things, so a lot of processes. It's the same kind of equation. People process technology, except the people that process is much more complicated on the public sector side than private sector, unless it's a big company. So imagine the biggest company in the private sector side, multiply that times a hundred, that's the government. So in each agency there's a lot of things going on there. But it's getting better. I think cloud has shown that you can actually do that, the people side of things going to be addressed by this new migration of new generation of people coming in saying, "I don't really care how you did it before, "this is how we're going to do it today." The processes are going to be optimized so there's some innovation around process improvement that's going to end on the wayside and the technology everyday is coming faster and faster. Recognition, facial recognition software. Look at that. AI. These are things that are just undeniable now, they have to be dealt with. What do you do to privacy? So again, back to process. So people process technology. >> AWS is a behemoth in cloud computing. What do you want to be hearing here at this conference? They're so far ahead of Google and Microsoft but we cannot count those two companies out, of course not. But what are you looking for for key messaging at this show? >> Well I'm looking forward to seeing Andy Jassy's Fireside Chat with Teresa Carlson tomorrow. I'm interested in some of the use cases coming out of Teresa Carlson's top customers in public sector, again it's global public sector so it's not just in North America here in the United States. I'm interested in also understanding what's real and what's not real around the fear, uncertainty and doubt that a lot of people have been putting on Amazon. Because I see Amazon posturing in a way that's saying go faster, make change and it's not so much that they want to monopolize the entire thing, they're just moving faster. And I think Andy Jassy yesterday saying that they welcome regulation is something that they're trying to push the regulators on. So I think they welcome change. So I want to understand if Amazon really wants to go faster or is there an agenda there. (laughs) What's going on? >> I know, methinks these tech titans are asking for a little too much regulation right now. I mean obviously Mark Zuckerberg has also said, "Please regulate us, I can't do this alone." And here we have Andy Jassy yesterday saying those same things. >> Andy Jassy said on stage yesterday with Kara Swisher, "We can't arrest people." So if their tech goes bad, they're only beholden to the consequences as a private entity. They're not the law so this is where again, back to top story here is that, what is the role of government? This change is here. It's not going away, it's only going to get faster. So the sooner the elected officials and all the agencies get out in front of the digital transformation, the sooner the better. Otherwise it's going to be a wrecking ball. >> Well I cannot wait to dig into more of this over the next two days with you, here at AWS Public Sector. >> All right. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier, you are watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Voiceover: Live, from Atlanta, Georgia, it's theCUBE, covering CITRIX Synergy, Atlanta 2019. Brought to you by: CITRIX. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend coming to you live from Atlanta Georgia, our first day of coverage of Citrix Synergy 2019. Keith and I are very pleased to welcome you to theCUBE. For the first time, Bob O'Donnell, the founder and president of Technalysis. Bob, it's great to have you on theCUBE. >> Thank you. Great to be here I really appreciate it. It's my first chance to do theCUBE. It's exciting. >> We're so excited because you are no stranger to TV. Bloomberg, CNN, CNBC, Squawk Box, now theCUBE! >> Bob: And the now theCUBE! >> Keith: Most importantly- >> Bob: It completes the circle. >> He's a friend of Leo Laporte, which makes him a super star. >> All: (laughing) >> Well there you go. >> We're sitting in the presence of greatness. >> Oh, I don't know about that. But anyway, no, it's a pleasure to be here and it's nice to chat with you guys. It's a very interesting time that we're in. I mean, when we think about what's happening in the world. For years we've seen this move to cloud-based computing, and SaaS, and everything else. And everybody's excited about all of this stuff, and there's all these tools. And then on top of that, we thought, we have all these devices, right? We've got this amazing range of different devices we can use. But ironically, what it is, is we're in a state of too much of a good thing. It's too much. Even though if you think about it, you'd say, "Well, objectively, there's so much that "we could potentially do here. "I mean, we've got these tools that can do "this and this and this." But all of a sudden, "Well, except I got this one and this one, and this one. "And oh, by the way, if I want to send a message, "I can send it five different ways to Sunday, "and therefore if I want to read a message, "I have to be able to read it "five different ways from Sunday." And so, the challenge that you face is, and Citrix talked about it, I thought, quite nicely in their keynote this morning, is people get overwhelmed. And they just can't get productive with what they're trying to do. And so, what you need to do it figure out ways to turn that chaos into structure and order. And that's what they're trying to do with the workspace. And it looks pretty cool. >> Yeah, one of the offline conversations I had was you get all these tools. It's like somebody took a box of 10,000 Legos and just jumped it on your desk and said, "Build a masterpiece." And what I head this morning was the equivalent of what was like a Star Wars kid of like, "This is what you can build. Here's the directions, "and now you can start to deviate and customize it "for your environment." So one of the things that I'd love to get your input on is this concept of AI ML. This ideal of taking tasks and automating them. It's nothing new. We've tried this with macros and other areas. But the thing that was missing was, these tools were pretty dumb. >> Bob: Right. So the promise of ML AI should make these tools become real. What's your impression of the state of the technology versus what was presented today. >> Well, look, we're in very early days of AI and ML. There are some fascinating things out there. There's a lot of the high profile things that we hear about. The ImageNet and the ability to recognize every kind of dog known to mankind, and all the demos we've all seen at every other trade show. It really is, the fascinating part, exactly, to your point, is that the goal with AI and machine learning is to actually makes things understand. And it's fascinating because... I'll take a bit of a sidetrack but bring it back. When devices started to be able to recognize our words, we assumed, because we're human beings, that they recognized what we meant. But, no. There's a big jump between the words that you can transcribe, and what you actually mean. >> Yeah. That context. >> Context is everything. And context is something that, again as human beings, we take it for granted. But you can't take that for granted when it comes to technology and products. So, the beauty of AI as it starts to get deployed is how do we get the context around what it is that we're trying to do, what we meant to say. Of course, we all want that in real life: "What I meant to say was..." But, "what I meant to do was this." Or, "the task I want to do is that." So, taking that back to what Citrix is talking about is there are a lot of rote procedural things that people do in most organizations. And they gave the classic examples of proving the expense reports and this and that. So, clearly, some of those things they can pre-build. The micro apps, in a lot of ways, they really are macros. It's kind of a fancy macro. And that's fine, but the question is are they smart enough to kind of deviate, "Oh, well, there's a conditional branch "that it automatically builds in a macro "that I didn't have to think about "because it realizes in the context of what I'm doing "that it means something else." Or something like that. >> At the end of the day, I want to get the account balance, however that translates. As opposed to: take this column from row A and put it in row B. No, sometimes row A won't be the correct destination. I want the account balance. >> Right, right. >> And the other truth of the matter is we're still getting used to actually talking to our devices. We do that at home to some degree for people who have Alexas, unless they've decided to stop recording everything, and then that's a whole different subject. But, at work we don't. Interestingly, I remember when I first saw Cortana, for example, on a Windows machine. I thought, in a weird way, Cortana makes more sense because I should want... But it hasn't really happened. It hasn't played out. So there's some level of discomfort of talking to our devices and recognizing these things. So, I think there are cultural issues you still have to overcome. There are physical issues in the workplace, now. Now, when you have these open office environments, which doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that that was going to be a disaster. Whoever thought that was smart, man, let's take a look at where their degree came from. But that's the reality that people are in. So, you've got the physical environment challenges. You've got the cultural "how do I work with this?" environment. And then just starting to realize what it can actually do. And then, of course, you have the problem that it didn't recognize what it actually said. That's something stupid, and the original Siri problems that we all had. But, all of these things tie together because they're all different takes on what machine learning has the potential to do and what we think it should do, and what it can actually do. The one thing I will say is as we head towards 2020, I think we're going to start to finally see some of these things do what we thought they were going to do. They're going to start to have the context. They're going to start to have the intelligence. So, in the work space, it's going to have the ability to know what I mean when I say, "I need the account balance." Or, "I need to know where in the sales pipeline "this particular project is," or whatever task it is that I've got to deal with. And so, understanding that and then building the plumbing to do that is critical. One of the interesting things, if you look at what Citrix does, they're really all about plumbing. They have this ability to pull together all these different elements. From the beginning, what we started talking about. All these different applications over different types of network speeds and connections and make them all work. And yet, they present this very simplified, beautiful, nice little, you're like, "oh, this is great!" But, man, buried beneath there is a lot of stuff. And that's, to give them credit, that's what they're really good at doing. And companies now, the challenge is, a lot of companies have really old applications that they've got to kind of modernize in some way shape or form. And some of them are doing it on their own. They're doing the containerization and all the things we hear about as well. Some of them are wrapping them. Citrix, some of their original business, XenApp, was about app virtualization. Taking an old app and giving access in a modern way. So, again, it's doing that, but the other problem you have to bear in mind, excuse me, is that every company has a different combination of apps. They said 500 apps is normal. A lot of companies have more than that. >> Keith: Mhm. (affirmative) >> The problem is, it's not the same five hundred apps. This company has this set of 500 apps. This company has this set of 500 apps. This company has this set of 500 apps, and maybe 150 of them overlap, which means the long tail of 350 per company has to be dealt with and figured out. And that's, again, those are the problems that they're trying to solve and bring in to a unified environment. >> And also manage these growing expectations that all of us that are workers have from the consumer side of our lives. You mentioned Alexa and Siri, and we have these growing experiences that whether I'm talking to a device or I'm going on Amazon, I want it to know what I want. Don't show me something I've already purchased. And we have these expectations as humans and consumers that we want the apps when we get to work to understand the context and of course, we're asking a lot. In your opinion, where is Citrix in starting to help manage, helping their customers, rather, manage those growing expectations? >> I think Citrix has done a lot in that area. Even many, many years ago they were the first to come up with the notion of an enterprise app store. In the early days of the app store, they came out with this concept of, "We want to do an enterprise equivalent of that." When I download an app that I need to install on a work PC, make it easy to get at. So, from way back when they've been building on that. And then, the examples they gave today, the notification from the airline that your flight has changed, or whatever. Those are all the experiences that we're now used to thanks to cloud-based services. And their point is like, "Hey, why shouldn't we "have that at work, as well?" And so that's exactly what they're trying to work towards, is that notion of cloud-based notifications and services, and things, but related to the specific tasks I have to do. Because at the end of the day, they want to drive productivity. Because we all waste stupid amounts of time, and truth be told, the bigger the company you're at, the more time you waste because of just keeping up. I used to work at a big research firm of 1200 people, and literally half my day, every day, was just procedural stuff. I didn't actually work on the stuff that I thought I was hired to do, except for maybe half the day. And with a lot of people, that's very common. So, anything that can be done to reduce that and allow people to get through the procedural stuff a little bit more efficiently, and then actually let them do the work that they were hired to do and that they'd like to do, and oh, by the way, gives them more satisfaction. All of these things tie together. People tend to say, "Oh well, you know, "that's nice to do, this consumerization of IT, "that's nice." It's not just nice. It's actually practical. It's actually a real productivity enhancing capability. And I think Citrix has done an excellent job of driving that message. It's hard to to do because, again, the complexity of the plumbing necessary is super difficult. But their head and their heart are in the right place in terms of trying to achieve that. >> Well, it sounds absolutely like not a "nice to have," but business-critical. One of the stats that David Henshall, their CEO, said this morning, and Keith's been mentioning a number of times, is that he said there's 7 trillion dollars wasted on output because employees are not able to get to their functions that they were hired for in a timely manner. >> Right. >> So, there's a huge addressable market there of opportunity but also the consumerization that's personalization expectation is huge to not just making me, Lisa Martin, as an employee happy, but my business's customers that I'm dealing with. I think of a sales person, or even a call center support person. If they don't have access to that information, "She already called in about this problem 'with her cable ISP," that person is going to go turn, and go find another option that's going to fulfill their needs much better. >> That's absolutely right. And that was the interesting point that they made. And that's what they're trying to do with the intelligent work space is to move beyond just providing these apps, but actually personalizing it to each individual and being able to say, "All right, each of us are going to have a workspace." Sort of, it looks kind of like a news feed kind of a thing. Each one is going to be different though, based upon, obviously, the different tasks that we do, the order with which we do them, the manner with which we do them." So it does get personalized. The notifications, you know, I may want certain notifications that you don't really care about as much. But that's fine. We can each create that level of personalization and customization. And again, what Citrix is trying to do, and it was a key point that P.J. made, is, "Look, we're not just building an application. "We're building a platform." And that's... The significance of that is big. And remember, he came from Microsoft. He worked on Windows. He worked on Office. So, he's got a long history of working on building platform based tools that have tools that you can build on. That have APIs and ways for other people to add to. So, all of those are critical parts of how they tell that story, and how they get people enthralled enough to say, "Hey, I'm going to make the commitment to do it." Because look, it's a lot of work. Let's not kid ourselves. If I'm not a Citrix shop, but I go, "Damn, that's cool!" There's a fair amount of effort to make all this stuff actually happen. So, it's a commitment. But, once they get them hooked it's a pretty sticky type of environment. Especially as they continue to deliver value and personalization and customization. That, at the end of the day, drives productivity. And that's a pretty straight forward message: "Hey, we can save your workers time "and make them happier." Well, who doesn't want that, right? >> So, let's talk about engaging your customers. Like, I can look at this, and I can easily, say I can come to a conference like this and say, "Wow, I really want the output. I don't want "any of that employee experience stuff. "That stuff just sounds hard, "but the output I definitely want." Talk to me about the evolution of your customers as you walk them through if you want the output, here's what you have to do. And talk to me about, specifically, the success stories of where they didn't get it, and then after you've engaged them, they got it. >> Well, there's so many different variations out there. But, at the end of the day, every company out there is dealing with the fact that they have workers that work in a lot of places on a lot of devices and they have to allow them to get stuff done. And so, it's about how much are they willing to do to make that happen? But there's the psychology of it. There is the whole, "how much of this am I willing to outsource?" Versus, "I really want to keep it inside." So, it depends on the industry and the level of if they are a regulated industry, and all those things have an enormous impact on how they do this. But, if you think back, Citrix's original business was, a lot of it, was again, around desktop virtualization, and actually trying to get really old school stuff, I'm taking mainframe green screen stuff, to actually run on an old Windows PC. And that was kind of a lot of what they did, initially. And then, of course, they've built on from there. So, all along the way, you see different organizations. Citrix has been thought of more as more of the old school kind of enterprise software. Along with an SAP or an Oracle so something like that. I think they've done a particularly good job of being cloud native, cloud aware, and working with these cloud-based tools. Because early on, when we think about what happened with SaaS applications, people thought that was going to dramatically change how anybody did software. And it did, but not in the way people expected. So, I'm trying to get an answer, specifically, to your question, but I think what it is is what they're doing, and what companies who deploy it find is that they can take even these completely different types of software and services, and ServiceNow, and Salesforce, and Workday, and all these kinds of things that are dramatically different, but still, again, have overlapping functionality if I use all of them, and conflict or counteract or interact, or need to interact with other tools I already have that I'm working to change. So, again, what I think that what Citrix has done a good job is they're able to look at the wide range of stuff that people have in that 500 group of apps, or whatever it is, and be able to say, "All right, ten of those are cloud-based services. "But we've got 490 other ones we've got to deal with." And they have different levels of technologies to deal with those. So, what companies can do is they can also pick and choose. They can say, "Look, we're not going to get all 500 apps in our workspace." Maybe they just decide, "But we're going to do these twelve, "five of which are SaaS-based, "and then we've got a couple other critical ones "that we have to do, and that hits 80% of our workers." And they can tackle it that way. So, the bottom line is companies who... Look, it's a big investment up front. So the process is you have to psychologically say, "I'm willing to make an investment in," not obviously, just now, but their roadmap. What they're doing. What they're talking about. That's why they talk a lot about the future because if I buy into this ecosystem, I'm committed. Right? Again, I talking about that earlier: The stickiness question. So, companies who are doing this kind of thing, companies who are trying to make sense of all these applications have to be willing to make those big investments. It used to be, it used to have a huge Citrix server farms, as well. Obviously, with the development of the Cloud and Citrix Cloud, that's all changed. But, it's still a big investment, and they have to work to figure out ways to do this. And if they do, to finally get to, you know, they do see productivity savings. I mean, Citrix is, I don't remember the numbers, but they can qualify actual time saved when their solutions are installed, and that's the benefits that these companies get. So, they have to measure how much is my employee time worth versus the cost of getting these things deployed? >> Well, and I think that's going to be a differentiator for them. I wish we had more time because we could keep talking to you for a long time, but you got to add theCUBE to your list of TV: Bloomberg, CNBC, >> Bob: It's all there. Hey, I'm excited. >> Squawk Box, Now, theCUBE. Bob, it has been such a pleasure to have you on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> We appreciate your time. >> Thanks so much. Appreciate being here, thank you. >> Our pleasure. For Keith Townsend, I am Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, live from CITRIX Synergy 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Anaheim, California it's theCUBE covering Nutanix .NEXT 2019, brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix .NEXT. We are wrapping a two-day show. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, John Furrier. We saved the best for last. We have Ben Gibson, Chief Marketing Officer and Monica Kumar, SVP Products and Solutions at Nutanix. Thank you both so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you for having us. >> Yeah. >> So congratulations on a great show. 6,500 attendees and 20,000 were live streaming. We had Mark Hamill, Jessica Abel is speaking next. Energy, a great vibe. Congratulations, you both get a well-deserved vacation after this. But I want you to, Ben, close out the event and tell us a little bit about what you hope the attendees is come away with. >> Yeah thanks, and thanks to theCUBE for joining us here-- >> You are welcome. >> It's a long marathon, right, over the last two days. And thank you for the great coverage you provide for this event. Yeah, we're thrilled with the event, and for us, it really starts with getting even deeper, more connected with our customers, right? And so we do great keynotes and there's a lot of new product announcements which I know have been covered in good detail throughout the last two days. But at the core of it, it's how do we make our customers better positioned for how they do their jobs. So it's training and certification and networking with their peers, and you hear that all over the place. And so as excited as I've been over the last three days with the event and the grandeur of it all, the thing that really gets me pumped up the most is when I see these ad-hoc groups that just come together in a hallway, and they sit down. I go over and say, what're you guys up to? and we're like, well, this is like our AHV mashup group, and we get here and we talk about key challenges we have, key opportunities, best practices tips, and so it's that network effect for me above anything else is what is at the heart of this show. >> One of the highlights we pointed out yesterday and today in our intro was the community vibe you have here. You have a great loyal customer base, Net Promoter Score of 90 which is a monster number, congratulations. But it's a small intimate event, you guys were able to not make it a trade show but a conference that was intimate, content driven, content value with nice tracks. Lots of comments on the tracks. So a lot of good highlights. So my question to you Ben and Monica, what's your highlight so far? >> You know, I'll take this one. As a newbie, I'm one of the newest members of the team at Nutanix and this is my first .NEXT. Even though you say it's a small event, it's still 6,500 plus people and about 20,000 attendees online right. So I think it's still sizable, but the beauty is that we're still able to maintain that community feeling. And so for me the most exciting part was not only meeting with customers like our SisAdmins, DevOps folks, developers, IT directors, CIOs, partners, our own employees, we're like bringing everybody together here to discuss how we can make things better for the customers, and what are things that are working and how can we improve. So I think to me that's one of the biggest thing I'm taking away as I go back, is what we can take as a feedback and how we can do things better in how we bring products to the market. >> Ben, highlights for you? >> Yeah for me, well first of all, I got to interview my boyhood idol, Mark Hamill. (laughter) >> Pretty cool. >> And that was a lot of fun, right. And we've just gone through in an hour and half of great content, our Nutanix Mine announcement, that was great, we announced AHV support on frame. So that was exciting to me and then, the cool thing about our show is we like to mix it up with something that's really fun. And in my case and I know with many people in the arena, and I saw the meet and great afterwards, to bring out Mark Hamill. I had to contain myself because I am a big Star Wars geek at my core, and we had a great conversation. And you know when you feel the room, I felt the room of 6,500 hanging on his every word, right? And he talked about persistence in his career, how he started out, all the rejection he got earlier on. We talked about his career journey, so on a really fun way, it kinda connects with a lot of journeys we have with the professionals in the room that are going through a lot of change and rejection or taking a risk or a chance on new disruptive technology. >> Yeahm it's really been a home run. First of all, the theme of having of Star Wars and Mark here was really great because the demographic, we all love Star Wars, so nice connection-- >> Who doesn't? >> Nice connection to the tech audience but your customers consistently say in theCUBE and off theCUBE, in the hallways and other conversations that they took a bet with Nutanix and it paid off. And that's the rebel kind of mindset inside these cultures of pre-existing legacy, vendors, and so you guys are breaking through. This is a big part of the marketing, is to enable those rebels to be now the mainstream. >> Yeah it's, you know you're right, it's rebellion, you know, that's spreading and growing, but as a marketer here, there's plenty of conversation about how we differentiate, right, and the outcomes we create for the customers but then when I see one of our early customers, and we opened the conference, he shared a picture where he was flying in a Cessna plane over the Grand Canyon, and he had his iPhone, he was managing his clusters with Prism on his iPhone. And what he said was the outcome for me, yeah there's total cost of ownership, yes, there's high performance levels, you can go through the traditional outcomes that IT folks look at. But at the end of the day he said, I'm able to spend more time with my family, and that sounds kinda cheesy, but it's real, and you sense that and you learn about that when you're here with customers. And with Monica coming on board, yeah, we've always been great, I think, at marketing and communicating our technology advantage but it's about more than that, right? >> Yeah. >> Talk about about your role, you have a stellar career, you're now new to Nutanix, you're not new to the industry. What's your focus? What you're gonna be working on? >> As with everything we do at Nutanix, it's all about the customer, so we are obsessed with making sure that the customer has the best experience, whether it's with product quality or how we take our products to market. How we message it to connect to what problem that they need to solve. So I think the biggest challenge we have as a company, the opportunity is, we know the customers are moving to the cloud. Customers are embarking on journeys to a modernized infrastructure. They are embarking on journeys to be able to use multiple different clouds. There is a lot of complexity out there, so our opportunity is to simplify that complexity for the customer. So that's what I am going to undertake with Ben here, is come up with right solutions, the right packaging, the right messaging, the right offers for our customers that can make it easy for them to get on their journey that they choose to get on to the cloud. >> Rebecca and I were talking about on the kickoff yesterday, 10 years old, CUBE's ten years old, so we've been following you guys for a long time as well. You're growing up. You're still a young company, you've said you're a billion dollar startup. >> Yeah. >> That's the culture. What's next for you guys? What's the goal? What's the objective? Because you've built a great community organically, your content is on the mark at the conferences, also digitally, there's nice organic kind of discovery for your customers, are learning about Nutanix. Word of mouth is big, network effect you mentioned, new cultural, younger generation. So you got a lot of things working for you. What's next? >> Well, thank you. I agree with those things, (laughter) but I tell you, here's one thing I've been thinking about towards the opportunity. So if you look at the past year, and I talked about this in our recent investor day, that if you look at the amount of IT Spin tied to traditional three-tier data center architecture, storage, network, compute, running in separate silos, hundred billion plus in annual spin. Hyper conversions, great new modernizing infrastructure play, the market spend on that this year is probably five billion. So if you think about that, I think about only 5% of the legacy world been modernized. And I am not claiming a 100%, but I am claiming well north of an opportunity, well north of 5% to get there. So fundamentally, the first thing what's next is there's a lot of green field left to take advantage of here and for customers to understand the value, human value, as well as financial and operational value, of what we're up to here with our customers. And so that's next, and then at a higher level, and I know it's something Dheeraj and Sunil talk a lot about, it's, we've hyper-converged infrastructure, made that essentially invisible, much grander ambition, how do you hyper-converge clouds, how do you take the complexity Monica was just talking about and provide a lot of simplicity for App Mobility and the like and take that to the next level. So to me, there's still the core mission. We're just getting started right. >> You know I asked Sunil that question, I said, how do you make that happen? And he had a great comment. We weren't on camera, I wish he had said that on theCUBE. We were off theCUBE before. He said, "Well, people tasted Amazon, they tasted cloud, "and now they are gonna bring that "mojo to the enterprise on the premises, "because they realize the benefits of cloud by itself. "But they can't get everything to the cloud. "So they gotta get modernized on premises "and operating model, not so much a refresh." >> To add to that, if you think about the role of technology right, the role is to make our lives easier, whether it's at work or in our personal lives, so I think the next big frontier is all around automation. I think this whole move to the cloud is because people want to automate a lot of the mundane tasks, we've talked about that in the past with data and such. I think the same applies to infrastructure, so you're gonna see us really focused a lot more on, how can we help IT automate? A lot of the, you know, keeping the lights on type of tasks which could actually be easily be done by the machine or in the cloud or by the software, human beings then can focus on more important things. >> Right whether it's being over the Grand Canyon with your children or meaty tasks of our jobs. >> Exactly so it's about making IT become a service provider rather than a cost center. I think that's what we're gonna enable with our softwares, we continue to go forward. >> I'd love you to comment on Ayanna Howard, Dr. Ayanna Howard's keynote this morning, where she talked about actually smart machines working together with smart humans, and how that's really the collaborative AI, and that's really where the future is heading. How do you think about that, and how do you message that, and how do you approach that within Nutanix? >> Yeah I totally agree, it's not human versus the machine. It really is human plus the machine. It's the combination which is gonna be most powerful in how we adopt technology to make things better for us. Like I said, whether in our personal lives or work lives. I know a lot of examples in my own personal life that I can see how machines or softwares changed the things I used to do before which I don't do anymore. There's lots of examples, I know when growing up in India, we washed our clothes by hand and now we have, when I moved to U.S., we have the laundry machine, right? I mean, there's lots of small, small things that are happening now, we talk to our Alexas and we can command people, to call people, to turn the music on, to turn the lights off and what not. And I actually have benefited from those, my parents, I'll give you an example, I have older parents who live at home, and now it's amazing, my mom can say, Alexa turn off the light, or turn on the light if they have to wake in the middle of the night, guess what it's not dark anymore, the light gets turned on, it's a real use case, you know. (laughter) They won't trip and fall. So I'm like thank you Alexa (laughs). So I do think that power of machine and human is the combination where we're going next, and I think Sunil touched on it somewhat in his keynote too. We're talking about autonomous data centers, right. That's exactly what it is. We are injecting more of machine learning, more of AI technology in how we are analyzing the operations, and then how we act on the predictive intelligence that we're getting from the operations to fix things before they break. >> Ben, I want to ask you a question on the marketing side because one of the things that came out of the top stories that we identified here at the show was the move to software. It's a big part of Nutanix next generation shift and growth is gonna come from just software, not hardware, just a software company. And also Dheeraj mentioned that he has a new customer, Wall Street, (laughter) and so he has to manage that. He had a great answer on how he's gonna balance the short term Wall Street-ers and the long game that you guys play at the Nutanix, so you got the software transition, the middle of it, different economics, software economics are much more stronger than process improvement, box changing, changing boxes in a data center. So software's going to be a nice impact across the long game, but Wall Street may not understand that software, and as you guys go to the next level, from hiring and marketing software, how are you guys thinking about that? I know it's about a year under your belt now with software, what's the orientation? What's your posture for to the marketplace with the software play? >> That's a good question. I'm sure, you know, Dheeraj likes to talk about Wall Street and Main Street, right, and how do you balance the two. And yeah we are disrupting along established market. We are moving from hardware to software now rapidly in subscription-based consumption models, and we're doing all that at the same time we're growing at the rates we're growing. And so it's a lot of juggling in the air, right? >> And I'll throw channel in there too, you gotta channel the merging, your partner strategy is looking really good. The HPE relationship is I think a great signal, potentially, in more local expansion, more breadth channel marketing on the table (laughs). New things. >> I mean, the way I think about it, as a marketer here, is, you know, and Monica touched on this, how do we create and provide offers to market that take advantage of the freedom of choice of consumption of Nutanix, right. And then how do you take those to market through your sale organization, how do you increasingly take new offering and capability to market through the product itself, which is a well-worn practice in the SaaS world. And then the channel partners is a key part of this because the partners that really, and I met with many here this week that really on top of this, they want to build that value-added practices that are about providing new services and offerings on top of that software, and then to be able to offer it in effective ways. The marketer has think about how do we incentivize, how do we package, how do we message to bring these to the market. It's candidly a transition for us, but it's an exciting one. At the end-- >> And you guys, and you were open about it too, you recognize that it's happening. >> Yeah, and I see it, you know, those moves can be challenging, but those are also moves I think that Wall Street likes. >> Evaluational increase. >> So we're nearly finished with this conference, but we're already think ahead to the next one in Copenhagen. So talk a little about that, and then Nutanix Americas in 2020. >> Well good, so we're looking forward to taking the show across the pond to Copenhagen. We had a great, our Europe event last year in London was amazing, right. We had record turnout. We had close to, for a user conference, 35% of attendees were not even customers of Nutanix yet. And often for these conferences you see more existing users and then maybe some, and we so expect that trend to continue. We have a lot of traction across Europe, Copenhagen is a beautiful city. There'll be plenty new to announce there, so I can't leak anything early on that front yet. But that's gonna be exciting show. >> Come on. (laughter) >> It's taste. >> We won't tell anyone. >> And I'm sure he's gonna be hobnobbing with yet another celebrity in Copenhagen. I've renamed his title. He is the Chief Celebrity Officer at Nutanix now. >> Well, he and Mark Hamill are-- >> That's right. >> But we're best friends now. (laughter) >> And he was with Magic Johnson earlier. I have a long list of people he's been-- >> You're killing us. >> No, he is. (laughter) >> Yeah, Freddie Jackson. >> Well you know, all joking aside, it's customer experience. And if it's all business, it's all product and all technology, right, then you know, that's a certain level of experience, but part of this is the community and the happiness that we see in our customers is we make them happy, both in the technology we deliver, the partnership we enjoy with them, but then also some fun experiences we deliver to them. And that's the spirit of this show. >> Yeah you guys do a great job. I want it like highlight and also get your thoughts, and I want you to share with folks watching 'cause you guys do a great job on the content programs at your events, the mix and match up of the core meat on the tech bone, the solutions, but balance of guest hosts, guest celebrities kind of blend in the theme. What's the secret sauce? What's the playbook? What's the thinking behind lot of the content and how's that gonna translate digitally because you guys mix it up, it's not just all Nutanix all the time. You got partners, you got people from outside the industry, seems to reinforce, the threads kinda connect together. What's the, how do you guys think about that? >> Yeah well, the secret sauce at the core of this, Julie O'Brien, a woman named Erin Alonso on my team. We have a strong, small but mighty, very creative events team that understands that at the end of the day this is about learning, but it's also about show business too, right. And people want to come to relax, to learn, and to have fun too, and I think it's balancing the two. But it's not just, okay it's Mark Hamill, because he was in Star Wars. It's because we knew Mark had such a tight, iconic connection with our core demographic, in terms of the core customers we have, and I saw our customers, some with tears in their eyes when they were able to meet him afterwards. And so, okay there's, and I was joking hyper-convergence, I was talking to Mr. Hamill, I said, hyper-convergence, hyper-space, right, there's ways to connect the two together. But there's technology at the heart of both of that. So it's just a new and unique and surprising way, and one thing, I close with, we endeavor in marketing here when we run our campaigns, when we do our events, surprise and delight. Surprise and delight. It's inherent in the product with one click, and everything we do there, and we'd like to think it's inherent in our marketing and also an event like this. Surprise and delight. >> So Monica who'd your hero be up there on the stage? Who do you want to see at the next-- you boss is right here, (laughter) this is your chance to influence-- >> Oh my god, okay. If you really wanna know (laughs), he'll have to fly in from Bombay India, the movie star Shah Rukh Khan. He's got known as SRK. But he is a world-famous icon. So there you go, next one SRK. Talk to Sunil about it, he knows about SRK. >> We hear you. >> Note, noted. >> Well then Monica, thank you both so much for coming on theCUBE, always a pleasure. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier. You've been watching theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix.NEXT (techno music)