[Music] hi and welcome to this cube conversations in the cube in the cube Studios in Palo Alto California I'm your host Sonia - Gauri and today we're joined by Justin Warren the chief analyst and managing director for pivot 9 Justin welcome to the cube thanks for having me absolutely so tell us more about pivot 9 and more about your role yes so I found a pivot 9 back in 2011 and we help customers with their positioning in marketing and their messaging that's most of what we do these days we have a background in infrastructure enterprise consulting so we most of our clients tend to be focused on the enterprise and we also perform a bunch of analyst services basic research and understanding what the market is doing which helps us to to advise our clients on what makes a good position and message to take into the market that's great and you also founded this company so tell us about how you started this company and how you navigated funding well we're entirely so funded and have been profitable for for a while now it was kind of an accident in in the early days my background was in all traditional kind of consulting working with his clients on actually building infrastructure so I've done time in the trenches in in most of the different fields so I was once a DBA rapidly de-skilling and I got bored and decided that fairly company seemed like a good idea which was of course insane as anyone who is founded the company will gladly tell you but it has worked out okay for me in the end that's great and you're also you also do a couple other things you're a co-host on the cube or you're a host on the cube and you're also contributor of Forbes so tell us about how you got into hosting the cube and how that experience has been like for you host oh you can it was was kind of a happy accident I had known Stu for many years and an opportunity came up which I happened to be at a conference that he was he was at and said hey would you like to come on the cube and do a little bit of hosting and I will we said yes and have been doing a bit of it ever since every every now and again so yeah well it's when I happened to be at the same place and I do go to most of the major tech conferences it's it's always a pleasure to come on and guest host the Q but a little bit that's awesome and we love having you on the cube and you're also contributor on Forbes so tell us more about what articles you write what what topics in fields you mostly focus on yes oh uh mostly there I focus on enterprise and and cloud a little bit of networking and information security those are my interests and and it's my background so I know the enterprise technology field pretty well and now it's just interesting it gives me an opportunity to talk to a lot of different customers and find out or both customers and vendors and find out how they think about the market what what are they trying to build why are they trying to do that and whenever I'm talking to them I'm always trying to find a way that I can educate the audience about what what this means for them so it does dovetail nicely with the work we do through pivot nine but I just found it personally interesting and quite useful to be able to communicate what people are really doing and why it's why it's a good idea I think a lot of my readers value that that honesty and the insight that they get from that writing I certainly that's what they've told me so I like listening to customer feedback so if they tell me that I start to suck then I'll have to change what I do it but until when I'll keep doing it the way up and doing it that's awesome Justin thank you so much for being on the Kuban we really appreciate you have having you here no problem thank you so much absolutely thank you so much for watching the cube this has been a cube conversation at the cube studios and pellet [Music] you [Music]

[Music] hi and welcome to this cube conversation in the cube Studios in Palo Alto California I'm your host Sonia - Gauri and today we're joined by two guests Justin Warren who is the chief analyst and managing director of pivot 9 and John Troy the chief reckoner of tech reckoning John and Justin welcome to the cube Thanks thanks for having us great so Justin you're in Melbourne Australia John your local to California let's start with Justin Justin you work at pivot 9 tell us a little bit about your role and what you do so I'm the founder and chief analyst steered pivot know and so everything is my fault we we like to help customers with positioning and messaging that's what most of them come to us for so we we maintain a pretty good research focus on the market focus on enterprise infrastructure cloud and information security and our clients come to us for help with positioning into those markets that's awesome and John you're the chief reckoner at Tech reckoning so tell us more about tech reckoning and what you do sure in in a way my keep reckoner is just might know I guess I am also the bottle washer and analyst as well we work with companies that help them with their ecosystem of technologists we work community and influence and advocacy and Deverell is the term of art that people like right now but basically we work we help communities communicate with their their their the ecosystems of which that's great and you're both a host of the cube so let's go down the line John tell us how did you get into hosting the cube and how has that experience been like I was here at cube number one we we started to realize that video streaming was available in a reasonable way at events and I believe we worked we worked with John and Dave and some of the few boats who were Bill around now to bring them to VMworld over ten years ago I was also doing it home at myself with him disappear that we bought it electronic door I'm very quickly looking very welcome to have them take over a functionality for a lot of people and Justin how about you how's your experience been yeah it's been great it's a again happy accident as things started off I happen to nice to I've known him for a few years and they he was in need of submersed hosting spots at a conference that I I happen to be at anyway and I foolishly said yes and now I've done it more than once oh it's is it gets a lot easier after you've done it two or three time are there any tips and tricks you would give okay thank you so much for being on the cube and we will see you next time [Music] you [Music]

>> Live from Seattle, Washington, it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon, North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the cloud native computing foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage day three here, theCUBE covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2018 in Seattle. I'm John Furrier, with Stu Miniman, and Justin Warren here to break down the action. Justin Warren, as you know, is Guest Analyst for us at many events, Chief Analyst at PivotNine, coming all back over here again, to break it down. So we're going to dissect what's going on here at KubeCon, CloudNativeCon. This is, some say, me, the last stand to stop Amazon. Justin, good to see you. >> Good to see you as well, man. Stu, my first question is, as the show winds down, day three, a lot of people have left, all the big execs are gone, it's kind of last day, people coming together, party was last night, so we kind of see all the action, we kind of fished this pond dry, in theCUBE here, the last couple of days. The themes are starting to emerge. What are you seeing, what's your thoughts? >> Yeah, I mean, first of all, John, 8,000 people, this is, you know, geeks that are really excited, and I mean that in the best of ways, of course. There's actually, there were people here before the show started, doing lightning talks and full day sessions. Tomorrow, there's an operative session that another 250 or 300 people will be doing Friday, so, you know, and people want to just suck the marrow out of the bone that is everything going on here, just get every ounce of knowledge here, and they are deep into this session, so, this is a great community. The question I want to ask you guys is you were at Amazon re:Invent two weeks ago. We've watched that show. I want the compare and contrast of this ecosystem and show, not just compare it to like, say, open stack, which we've been teasing apart all week, and I think there are some things we need to worry about, but a lot of good differences. But compare against the big one in the room, which is Amazon, and a big difference is Amazon is here, and they have a seat at the table, because they have to, and customers will force them there, but you know, should this worry Amazon, and how does this ecosystem compare with the Amazon ecosystem. The big thing for me is, I understand how people make money in the ecosystem of Amazon. I'm still trying to figure that out here. >> Yeah, eh, it is a different ecosystem. It does have a bit of a vibe of it could be the new re:Invent. We've had conversations over the last couple of days about-- >> Or is this the independent cloud, >> Exactly. >> You know, open ecosystem. >> It is the independent show that we've been waiting for, that we've wanted since COMDEX and Interop kind of went away, and it's all been vendor shows, and now we have an independent show where all the vendors can come and have kind of a neutral meeting place, and we can all gather together and have some common ground, which is like, that's what Kubernetes is. I've been saying over the last couple of days, Kubernetes is like the ethernet of cloud, so it's something which is an agreed standard and we can all collaborate on, and then, you never bet against ethernet. So know you can build all these other things on top of that platform, yeah. >> Just a quick note on that, right, that's Interop, and networking was at the core of that. It was basically everybody, oh, it's the chance of if we give true interoperability, maybe we can do multi-vendor and it won't all be Cisco, who dominated that market. Amazon's the same. >> Stu, this is to me, ethernet's a great example. I say TCPIP as well. Both are enabling technologies that are standardized, or actually started as de facto standards. They weren't necessarily bona fide standards. They emerged when people rallied around them. Those de facto standards, emerge and become a catalyst point for people to build on top of and around. Remember, there's still a lower level below the stack on ethernet. So you had, you know, physical data link layer in the OSI model, the grandfather of all stacks. That really changed, I think, 20 years of growth and innovation. I think Kubernetes is, exactly right, Justin, it's exactly your point. I see that as well, that it's not so much Kubernetes is going to be the be all end all. It's what it enables, and I think the innovations on top of Kubernetes, and underneath Kubernetes, take the holy trinity, I've been saying this on theCUBE now for the past year, the holy trinity of infrastructure and IT is storage compute networking, and those things are now being repurposed in a way that is highly scalable, dynamic, and resourceful for a lot of things. AI is a great example, everyone talks about AI, but storage policy, the knobs in Kubernetes can manage, and Google saying the guys of Kubernetes. That's one of the most underutilized aspects of Kubernetes, is the networking guys managing the knobs from below, and then app guys with servers messing maybe on the top. This is just an absolute growth engine, and the comparison to Amazon is similar, because Andy Jassy talks about builders, the right tool for the job. This is essentially the same mantra. I mean, this is tools, platforms. >> It's very similar, but with one very important difference, and around the money side of things. You don't have this massive behemoth which is going to come in, and one year you're on the keynote, and the next year we just announced a product, which completely killed your business. It's open source. That's not really going to happen. So you've got that common core of things, where there's no real competitive advantage on this stuff. So that's, you know, Linux, where's the competitive advantage on a kernel? There isn't one. So open source makes great sense for that kind of core of things that you then build upon, and then all the money is in all the innovation, all the value add that goes on top of that, and that makes a huge amount of sense to have an open source show for that. >> And I think, Stu, one of the things that we always talk about, networking in cloud, I think the concept of cloud is going to be old hat. You heard it here first on theCUBE. Because cloud is Amazon, cloud is a set of resources. When we start thinking about IoT at the edge, when you talk about moving compute to the edge, you're going to start to see mesh networks, peer to peer, and add a new kind of platform configurations that isn't necessarily cloud. It's a new thing. It's a platform, open platform, and there's going to be some incentives that are going to be designed for startups, that's economically beneficial to the new kinds of things, versus the economic incentives that Amazon might not have, to do things. So I think we're going to see emergence of new stuff. I would still say that cloud is a state of mind, it's not a location. And we here, it's CloudNativeCon. It's not just KubeCon. It's about doing things in a cloud native way, and that, like you say, it doesn't matter where it is or how it communicates together, but it's the way you operate it, it's the way it actually works in practice. It's not so much of, oh, we're going to build it here and we're going to put it in that cloud, or that cloud, or that cloud. >> And I think we've had some real clarity as to what that future of multi cloud looks like, 'cause it's not one massive cloud everywhere, it's not, oh, my applications spanning all over the place. It's we're working to solve that really tough problem of distributed architectures, and giving us ways that I shouldn't have to think about where I am spinning that up, or if I need to change vendor, not necessarily portability, you still do have some lock in, because Kubernetes is not the full stack, it's a piece of the overall platform, and while there's 75 different versions here that are all compliant, I should be able to move between them, but the devil's in the details, and there's lots of stuff that goes on top. >> Let's talk about multi cloud for a second. 'Cause you mentioned COMDEX, you talked about ethernet. At that time, during those big revolutions, the word multi-vendor was a big buzz word. Multi-vendor was like the basis of COMDEX. We all got to play together. Multi-vendor meant choice. Today, multi cloud is just a modern version of multi-vendor. >> Exactly, it's multi-vendor, and that's what enterprises want. Enterprises are a bit wary now. We hear lots of conversation about lock in, and that comes up a lot, and it's a real thing. Enterprises are concerned, they don't want to bet on one company, and then find out that actually, it's technology, it changes, things need to be moved around. We don't want to wake up in five, six years, and then suddenly find, oh my god, I can't change anything because I'm locked into this one vendor. >> So, Justin, they say they want multi-vendor. When it came to networking, I spent years working on interoperability, and plug tests, and all these things, and at the end of the day, it was way better to get my standards plus with a single vendor than it was to try to loop them together, and then, oh, when I changed something, so hopefully the difference here is actually, we have loosely coupled services, we have APIs, so can we actually do multi-vendor, multi-cloud that doesn't stress out my team, and have, every time I want to make a change, or they make a change, it moves. The new cloud world should be, things change, you know, it changes upstream, and downstream, I get to use them. So, once again, we talk about the shiny nirvana of, oh, you know, it's serverless, and the old trinity of computer storage. I don't even need to worry about that, 'cause it'll just work, but wait, if something goes wrong, I've been talking to a bunch of vendors here, that actually, how do I get observability, and manageability, to be able to drill down, because things could still go wrong. >> Well, you heard Bloomberg, we had an end user come on, it's a very interesting point, and Dan Khan, from the executive director, well, Bloomberg's kind of a different case, but look at what Bloomberg does. The guy said to us, "I actually don't want to buy "these products and services. "I just want to pay them money "to be available to support me "when I need support." 'Cause Bloomberg has fully integrated all their support internally. I think that's a trend that we're going to see in the enterprise, where CIOs start building teams, real software chops. It might not be as big as Bloomberg, but the notion of, we're going to run our own stuff. We'll use management services where appropriate, but we're going to have a core software build strategy, and I can't wait. An SLA of four hour response time. I need like, minutes. >> And that's how, I think, where we don't have the answers yet. There are still a lot of questions that enterprises are trying to work out about how do I actually do that. So you mentioned Bloomberg, and I interviewed them a few months ago, wrote something in Forbes about them. They are a special case in that they have chosen that we're going to invest in this technology so that we have people on staff, in our company, who understand Kubernetes. Now, that's not a choice that every enterprise is going to make, but they decided that actually, this technology, this software is so important to our business, to where we get all the value for our business that we need to invest in that technology. And I think a lot of enterprises are realizing that, actually, outsourcing everything to one vendor, and then giving all of your innovation engine to someone else, and they're realizing that was a mistake. Now, they're trying to figure out, okay, what do we bring in house, what do we do ourselves, what do we get vendors to do, which technologies do we use for what particular value creation, and that complexity, that decision making process, that's what we haven't quite worked out yet, and that's where I think there's a lot of value in the ecosystem, with service providers who can provide advice on here is how you should do it, based on what you need to do. >> That's a great point. Stu, I want you to comment on that. Let's refine this for a second, 'cause the people who actually spend the money, or the people re-imagining IT infrastructure, IT applications. The CIO, I've interviewed the VP of Advanced Technology at Proctor and Gamble, and he told me, when he came in, he came from Coca Cola, he's been an old IT guy, he says, look, we outsourced everything to the point where we're anemic. We got a couple of storage guys, they're pushing buttons, they're jumping on, calling the vendors, they outsource everything. He says they had no ability to create a competitive advantage for the business, and what they moved quickly to was to bring talent in to be builders, to be in house. So now you have that trend happening in the modern CIO, CXO kind of roles. Now you have to say, okay, I got teams here. How do I get the investments deployed, how do I go to this ecosystem here with all these tools, all these capabilities, how do I invest, how do I build out. >> Look, I think Kelsey Hightower had a great point when we interviewed him this week. It is a huge opportunity for managed services, because like we talked about, the Amazon, or even the ecosystem, how do I keep up with all of this, and the answer is, you don't. You need to be able to have people, whether it's system integrators, or partners that are going to help that. You know, look, Amazon gets criticized for not being deeper in open source. Well, they use a lot of open source and they deliver those services, and they make it easy. Frictionless is something we talked about for many years as being the thing. The enterprise wants to be able to spend money and just go do it, because they don't have a team to pitch these. Even somebody like Bloomberg, or some of these really big companies I love, talking, you've got Apple, and Nordstrom, and some really interesting, oh, by the way, and they're all hiring. Whether or not they're actually using Kubernetes, they cannot confirm or deny, but you know, we know how that goes. >> Hold on, first, let's unpack the end user piece here, okay? Amazon is pushing 5,000 reference-able customers. Okay, it's not about the Amazon question. End users here, how many reference-able customers are here? What are they actually, Uber's here, they're hiring. They might have some Kubernetes stuff in the background. Sure, they probably do. But actually, what does the end user adoption really look like? I mean... >> It's still early, but again, a difference between this show and Amazon re:Invent. How many end customers have a booth at re:Invent? Compared to here, where we have people, end customers who are here mostly to try to hire talent. They have booths. >> Kudos to the CNCF. They've got 80 end users participating. There are a lot of users here. This is not the vendor fest that we see at some shows when they get big. I hear they're not seeking the vendors. The vendors that I talked to were happy because they are the users here, and they're excited. Before we go, John, there's a couple kinks in the armors and things we need to worry about. The two, if I look at service meshes, and I look at serverless as a huge threat. One of the things I wanted to look at coming in was I'd heard a lot of talk about Knative, and I think Knative is great, but it is not, you know, Lambda is the defacto standard, just like S3 was before. Lambda is this, and Knative has absolutely nothing to do with Lambda and does not connect with it. It is the difference between serverless and functions, and so, all the AWS functions and all the Azure functions have nothing to do with Knative. For the people that looked at OpenWhisk and all these other options, Knative seems a good way to pull, they've done a re-spin of what's happening there, and it's moving things down the line. Once again, as Kelsey said, if we look at serverless as a spectrum, which many of the hardcore serverless people will debate and argue, and be like, that's not real, serverless, well, just like we said, there is only one real cloud, and it was Amazon. We know that's not the case. It will be a spectrum, we want to meet customers where they are. So, Knative, good news, but the elephant in the room is that AWS and Azure are where all of the serverless really happens, and therefore, there is a big air gap between them. Justin, service mesh is something I know you've been looking at. Give it to us the good, bad, and the ugly. >> Service mesh is really, really early. So, we're at that part where there's a diversity of innovation going on. There's about 12, or at least 12 different companies here at the show, who are all doing something with service mesh. They're all trying to sell you a different solution. This is what happens with technology. A new technology gets created, and we have this flurry of all these startups, who are all trying different things. And this is the destructive force of capitalism. Not all of them are going to succeed, but we have to have them all out there in the market, because at the moment, it's too early to figure out, okay, well, it's definitely going to be that one. If we knew that one, then I'd be putting all of my money behind that one company today. >> Last year, Justin, all the talk was about SDO. I've heard a lot of talk about SDO, but it hasn't all been good. >> No, that's the thing. So we've had a year now, and last year was definitely, hey, SDO is like, the service mesh. Like, not so much. Envoy seems to be the common ground that people are actively using. That's what most people are building on top of. So it looks like Envoy's going to be that underlayer of everything else. But in terms of how you actually use service mesh, it's still very early, and people are trying to figure out how to do I use this quite complex technology in practice? And as people use it more, as we get more adoption, then we'll start to see that one or two of the methods and the approaches will win out over all of the others, and that's where we can expect to see, well, I have an anointed winner. That will then win out, because it's useful, because it's functional, because end users want to do it that way. >> And Envoy, by the way, had traction. They had a sold out EnvoyCon. On the first day, 350 people, Lyft is driving that, and they're just heads down, solving problems. I think that seems to be the formula for some of the successful products, where you take away all the window dressing and the hype. It comes down to who's solving what problems. >> And that's the thing with open source. You can't just throw a whole bunch of marketing dollars at it to make it succeed. If end users don't like the code, and they don't use it, then it won't work. >> John, I want you to give us the word on the open source business model. We watched in the last year, Red Hat bought CoreOS for 250 million, then they were acquired by IBM for 34 billion, pending final, and all that stuff and everything, and then, reading through the VMware, SCC filing $550 million for Heptio. You know, big, big dollars, so, is open source just getting a lot of customers, and they get acquired by the big guys? What's the take? >> I think it's interesting. First of all, Red Hat might not like what I'm about to say, but I'll just say it. I think there was a steal with CoreOS. If you look at what Heptio got for valuation, CoreOS was an absolute steal. The team was phenomenal, they were doing some amazing work. At that time of the acquisition, the debate of how to make money dominated versus just getting behind the technology, and I think CoreOS was a fantastic team, and they had the right tracking. You can see what's happening now with now part of the Red Hat. So, Red Hat got a massive lift on that, so I think, kudos to Red Hat for taking that up the table at that time. Great acquisition, I think that helped them propel, and now show that to IBM that there's real value there. Now, I think open source as a business model is interesting because it's changing, right? You now have a new generation of builders and developers coming in. Open source has to evolve, and I think the CNCF I think is a cutting edge experiment or Petri dish of how to stay true to open source principles, and still nurture and enable a downstream impact for the commercialization. I think it's an opportunity, but it's also one of their biggest challenges, because if this is COMDEX, COMDEX is an open source. It's hawking wares, right? So it's a different business model. So, this is going to be a very interesting test in the industry to see how the current open source momentum, which is looking really strong right now, how that can interplay with commercialization, because certainly, the money's there, the value's there, and if we can get these value spots identified, the white spaces for startups, and let the big guys also play as well, it's going to be a very interesting landscape, it's certainly dynamic. I don't have the answers, but my gut's telling me that a whole new level of sets of services and platforms are going to be composed around these services, and I think it's all going to be driven by open source, that's clear. How it shapes out, valuations and the talent buys, the momentum, market buy, we'll be watching, I don't know. >> Yeah, it's exciting times. We're here at the beginnings of what I hope is going to be this massive new ecosystem, and we get to watch it grow, we get to watch it change. It's a great place to be. >> All I can say, Stu, is I wish I was 25 years old again, right now, because for young entrepreneurs, and young tech folks, this is probably one of the most exciting times, because you have real computer science, and dormant computer science, now re-energized with cloud computing scale. It's just like-- >> John, they don't appreciate what they had, you know. They don't know what it was like to have a computer that wasn't actually connected to things, let alone what we had. >> I used to build my own graphics libraries, I used to walk to school in bare feet in the snow. It's so hard. It's so easy now. >> Creating ones and zeroes-- >> Where's my token ring? >> Creating ones and zeroes by banging rocks together. >> It's so easy now. You guys got it made. You have no idea. Great stuff, Stu, this is great analysis, and I think, again, KubeCon is the beginning, with Cloud Native, this is just a small signal, I think. I think there's going to be a COMDEX moment soon, unless this thing just blows up, which I don't think is going to happen. >> I mean, look, last thing, John, I want to big thank to the Linux Foundation, CNCF, for working with us. We've been neighbors in the early days, great partnership, this community. They've got a great media section. All of friends over here, that are creating a lot of con, working really hard. The amount of work that goes through, and as we had the people from CNCF talking. They've got a core team, but it's people that volunteer, and we were a community too, and all our sponsors, John. >> Yeah, thanks to the community, and again, one more final point is that, this market, Justin, as you know, we all cover it, is in a learning mode. There's a lot of education oriented stuff that people are interested in. You've got Alex Williams over at New Stack, DevOps.com, TFiR over there, everyone's up in media out there. There is a thirst for content, there's a thirst for community learning. The sessions are packed. I mean, the hallways are interesting. You see people huddling, and I overhear the conversations. They're not talking about what party to go to, they're talking about how to implement a Kubernetes cluster, so this, really people working on and off the court here, so to speak. So, it's been great coverage. So, day three, breaking it down. I'm John Furrier, Justin Warren, Stu Miniman, back with more coverage, day three, after the short break. (techno music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCube. With digital coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020. Special coverage sponsored by AWS worldwide public sector. >> Hello and welcome to theCube virtual, and our coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020 with special coverage of public sector. We are theCube virtual and I'm your host, Justin Warren, and today I'm joined by two people. We have Jim Richberg the CISO for Public Sector from Fortinet who comes to us from Washington DC. Jim, welcome. >> Thank you. Thank you, Justin. >> And we also have Kenny Holmes. Who's the head of worldwide Public Sector Go-to-market from Fortinet as well. And he comes to us from Chicago in Illinois. Kenny, thanks. >> Yes, thank you. Thank you, Justin. >> Gentlemen, welcome to theCube. Now this year has been pretty dramatic and for a lot of us as I'm sure you're very well aware and it's been a bit of an accelerator for people's interest in public cloud in particular for the public sector. So what have you seen, Kenny? Sorry, Jim, we'll start with you around the federal government's interest in cloud. What have you noticed in their adoption of public cloud and AWS in this year? >> So, we used to joke in the federal government in my 34 years, they'll never let a good crisis go to waste. That you can make an upside out of any situation. And as you noted, Justin this has been a dramatic accelerator to federal government's adoption of cloud. Three quarters of the agencies were already moving in the direction of the cloud and planning to spend roughly $8 billion on it this year. And that was pre COVID. And the pace certainly picked up. We had the guidance that came out of DHS, the interim guidance that facilitated abilities to let these now as of mid-March remote teleworkers connect directly to the cloud without having to connect back through their agency infrastructure. So they issued very quick guidance to say, look you got to get the job done. You got to get it done in the cloud. So they did that as a way to accelerate it in the short term. And then they put out the guidance later this year for a trusted internet connection access which had a use case that was built around again facilitating the ability to say you can connect directly to the cloud with security in that direct line stack. You no longer have to haul your data back to the enterprise edge, to the data center on-premise to then go straight out to the cloud. So the federal government said we will give you the ability to move in the direction of cloud and the agencies have been using this at scale. And that's why roughly half of the federal workforce is now working from home. And many of them are using cloud-based applications and services. So the dramatic impact on the federal government. >> Yeah, we've seen it here in Nate in my home of Australia. The federal government is very keen on that but there's other levels of government as I'm sure we're all aware. Particularly as state and even local governments. So Kenny, maybe you could give us a bit of a flavor for how does local and that more regional government have they been doing it basically the same as federal government or is there something unique to the way that they've had to adapt? >> Well, state and local governments are certainly facing the really the perfect storm of the rising demand and declining resources. The pandemic has certainly driven, a lower tax base and lower revenues. And as a result of that, we've seen adjustments in budgets, et cetera but we're also in a position uniquely where it's also driving digital innovation at the same time. So we're seeing the two of those and they don't necessarily have kind of diabolically opposed if you think about it. So, the two of those are coming together but so they're doing more with less and they're using digital transformation to get there where in the commercial world a lot of folks who've been doing digital transformation for a long time. Now, government is being more forced into doing it. And they're really embracing that from our perspective. So we've seen traditionally security be at the top of their demands from a CIO perspective and their most important initiatives. The now we're seeing digital transformation and more specifically we're seeing cloud, right be a key part of that. So, they've done things initially, obviously moving email and some of those things but today we're seeing an increasing amount of workloads that we're seeing them, move from maybe a previous provider, over to AWS et cetera. So, those are some of the things that we're seeing from our state and local perspective >> To build on Kenny's point. I think the key differentiator Justin, between the federal and the state and local experience has been the resources, the federal government with COVID. The federal government runs a deficit. We've seen the deficit balloon, federal spending is up 17 to 20%, not what it's passed out of the stimulus money but simply what government is spending at the federal level. So we are using cloud at the federal level to do more as Kenny noted, state governments and local governments because they're funded exclusively by taxes they can't run a deficit. They have had to say we need to spend smarter because we can't spend more. We can't even spend as much and oh my goodness we have to deliver more digital services at the same time. So for them it has been a matter of having to eke greater efficiencies out of every dollar which has pointed them in the direction of AWS and the cloud in a different sense. And the federal government that said there's greater efficiencies because we need our remote telework people to get the job done, state government, it's the perfect storm. And if they don't do this they're literally going to have to curtail vital services. >> Yeah and as we've seen the security challenge pretty much is the same everywhere. I mean, there's some variations in exactly one sort of threat you might have as a federal government compared to local but broadly speaking, the malware and ransomware and things of that nature is pretty much just a miasma that we have to wade through. So what does, Fortinet helping with these customers, particularly as they move to as you mentioned, they're moving a lot of things into AWS. So what is Fortinet's role there in helping customers make better use of public cloud? >> So I think one of the things that Fortinet really has brought to this equation is they really are a very broad based cybersecurity provider. The biggest problem that organizations typically have, of course, you know in the cloud, it's misconfiguration by the customer. It's not AWS that's making the mistake 99% plus of the time it's misconfiguration by the customer. So having the ability to say if you know how to do your security in an on-premise environment, and you've got controls, capabilities and settings that you're comfortable with you can migrate those intact if they work for you into your cloud environment. So the fact that we are soup to nuts, that we have things at the edge and offer that same suite of capabilities in AWS allows us to be able to tell, help the users if they've configured it right, not have to go back and start from scratch and say, well, now that I'm in AWS I need to reconfigure other than as you have to do it because it's a different platform, but if you've got the policies in place that are managing security managing risk well for your enterprise carry them forward to a different environment. >> I think Kenny is that a particular opportunity there for local government? As you mentioned that restrained resources means that it's much more difficult for them to correctly configure their environments but also to make this level of change, they have a lot of other responsibilities it's difficult to become cybersecurity experts. Is that where you see Fortinet helping a great deal in more local government. >> Yes it is one of the key areas. The best way you can think of it is the ability to do what Jim was saying in a single pane of glass. And the fact that we can do that. That's something you don't hear a lot about anymore, but Fortinet actually is one of the largest security providers in the world. Has it single pane of glass across, being able to manage your on-prem infrastructure being able to manage whether if someone's migrating away from another cloud over to AWS and being able to look at these holistically it's just a fantastic way for them to be efficient as well as around training and certifications and helping our customers to be able to take advantage of the products without additional costs or other things that I've been throwing down the gauntlet for other providers to say, hey, security shouldn't be something else that they have to invest. They're going to invest in your technology. You should provide them with the training, provide them with security awareness, sobriety with certifications around your product that should be table stakes. >> And we do see a lot of that structure of how to do this and provide that training tends to be the same regardless of where you are. Is that something that we see say to getting defined at federal government level with some of the standards and then that then sort of trickles down into more local government. Kenny, is that something that you see happening at all? Or are we seeing things defined at local government that are actually going back the other way? >> Yeah, well, compliance runs across both. I mean, there's probably more compliance on the federal side that Jim could speak to but there's certainly compliance is always a major factor. And it can't be that just we need to do one-off solutions for a particular compliance issue. It needs to be holistic as we're talking about it. If I have to pick solutions based on what and where they're protecting. And now I have to think about the compliance for those as well. That's yet another thing to think about, I don't see our customers thinking that way. They don't have the skillsets to continue to evolve that way. That's an expanded, use of what they're doing and they just don't have those resources. So they have to be able to do more with less we've talking about, and to be able to take a platform like the fabric that Fortinet it offers it really offers that to them. >> At the federal level I'm not even sure that I would characterize it as compliance and regulatory things that state local government have to do, but the National Institute of Standards and Technology NIST tends to promulgate what are considered best practices. Then your cybersecurity framework has basically been adopted globally modified by certain places. And I did too in different ways, but when NIST comes up with something like zero trust architecture, new standards are understood, the 800 Series. I'm surprised people in local government where we'll talk about 800-53 or 800-207, just like we fed geeks too. So it's really setting best practices and standards that are different from compliance but to build on Kenny's point about resources where I think Kenny has flown the other way from local government up has been in the direction of saying state and local government had been the Canary in the coal mine on saying, you have to migrate to the cloud as a way of doing more with less. So the federal government has been turning the printing press, turning the crank faster and faster that will change, and this is one where can say you're spending smarter by moving in the direction of AWS and in accelerating that growth into the cloud, because my prediction as a former intelligence analyst is probably this time next year, a lot of federal agencies will be having the discussion about how to live in a much tightened budgetary environment because we went through something called sequestration 10 years ago that made for very tight zero sum budgeting. That's going to be a coming attraction and that's going to push federal government even more, so with the saying, I got to get the data off of Graham. I've got to continue to telework, Hey, and look we can follow the best practices of state and local government in this case. >> Well, it certainly sounds like we'll be able to learn from each other and adapt it. It's not going away. We're certainly going to have cybersecurity issues for the foreseeable future, but it sounds like there's a lot of work happening and there is room for happiness about how things are generally going. So, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us here and please thank you to my guest Jim Richberg and Kenny Holmes from Fortinet. You've been watching theCube virtual and our coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020 with special coverage of the public sector. Make sure you check out all the rest of our coverage on your desktop laptop or phone wherever you might be. I've been your host, Justin Warren. I look forward to seeing you again soon. (soft upbeat music)

>>from >>around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >>Hi. >>And welcome to the Cube. Virtual in our coverage of aws reinvent 2020. We have a cube virtual, and I'm your host, Justin Warren. And today, my guest is Shauna Wolverton, executive vice president of product at ZENDESK. And she's coming to us from Oakland, California. Shauna, welcome to the >>Cube. Thanks so much for having me. It is >>It is lovely to be here. How's the weather over there? In Oakland, >>we just suddenly went from summer to winter, which, uh, after the weather we've had is no complaints. >>All right, Well, as as a resident of Melbourne, where we have four seasons in one day, I am very familiar with rapid weather changes. So, uh, hopefully it's not too cold for you, and you get a little bit of nicer weather just before you go fully into winter. Absolutely. Now Zendesk and Amazon have a pretty close relationship is my understanding, and we know that Amazon is famous for its customer center at attitude. Wonderful thing about customers, of course, is that they're never really happy with everything that we have. So zendesk fit in with that with that relationship with Amazon. And how is your approach to customer? >>Yeah. I mean, the relationship we have with them is I'm really excited. Really Have gone all in on our move to the cloud. There are sole provider on DWI run all of our services, um, on AWS. And in addition, we have some great partnerships with, uh, Jacob Amazon Connect, which allows us to provide great telephony and call center services to our customers. We have a great partnership around event bridge and a zwelling app connect. So I think there is a fantastic relationship that we have where we're able to deliver not just our basic services, but to really take advantage of a lot of the services that Amazon on AWS provide s so that we can sort of accelerate our own roadmap and deliver great new features to our customers. >>Now, a lot of people have gone through a pretty similar adoption of the cloud of the moment. Unfortunate reason for doing so. But it certainly has driven the adoption very, very quickly. Uh, zendesk, of course, as you say, has been has been doing this for quite some time. So what have you noticed that stayed the same eso from last year to this year? What were you already doing that you're now noticing? Everyone else's discovering. Actually, this is pretty good. >>Well, you know, I think you know the rumors of of the call center and and the telephone as a channel. Their demise are greatly exactly. I think, um, for us. Much as we're all excited about chat and messaging and all of the different ways that we can connect with our customers, there's something about having a phone number and allowing people to pick up the phone and talk to a human that refuses to go out of style. And so I think, um, you know, our partnership with, uh with Amazon connection has been hugely powerful and even, you know, recently when a lot of this sort of acceleration has picked up, we've seen, um, you know, we saw a customer who had a power failure kind of massive failure of their own phone system. Be able thio, come to us, get, get, connect up and running incredibly quickly and start taking thousands of calls a day and that kind of sort of quick time to value fast start ability for our customers. Just this hugely important. Um, now. But really, you know, that's always been true, right? >>Yeah. I mean, when people want to call you and they want to talk to you, then they're not really happy If they can't get through that and particularly right now, being able to make that human human connection for me, I know that that that's been a really important part of getting through this. I work remotely most of the time. So actually, speaking to humans as we're doing now is is really refreshing change from just seeing everything on on a text screen. Um, so yeah, so it's It's interesting that the phone has actually has been so resilient, even though we were here from Ah, lot of young people say, Oh, we never answer the phone when someone calls, uh, but a lot of people are actually calling into businesses when they wanna make contact or when they when they don't see things on the website. So >>how does >>zendesk help, too, to integrate with what people are doing in their online and digital channels through to what they're doing with phone system. >>Yeah, but I think fundamentally people want their questions answered. One of my favorite studies that we did was around our benchmark study and we talked to Millennials. They said the first place they go to get help to their phone, but when you push it a little deeper, it was clear that they actually didn't know that the phone was for making phone calls. It was just all of the other help centers like like the first way that a lot of people today are looking for. Answers is, you know I wanna google it. And for that you need a really great help center has all that information out there and then you want toe have, you know, communities where people can talk to each other and get help. And then, you know, Mawr and Mawr. We're seeing the rise of messaging as a channel, both through the social channels like WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger Aziz Well, Azaz native messaging kind of ongoing conversations. He you ordered your dinner. It hasn't arrived. It's so great to be able to go into those applications and just message to the business and figure out what's what's going on and get that sort of instantaneous response as well, >>right? And you shared some stats with this regarding how much has moved across to some of these things phone based messaging channels. So tickets coming in has risen about 50% on DCA, paired to some gains on on live chat. So people are really embracing the idea of being about a message, not just individual talking to your friends in the group chat, but actually using that to engage with with the companies that they would normally use websites or or phone. It's like text chat is a thing. >>Yeah, I mean, it was funny to me. You know, I think we're still, uh, in the U. S. Not quite as far along as a lot of our international friends. When I when traveling was a thing that we did, you know, I was always like it was cool to see that there were billboards and ads that had what that phone numbers on them is a really, you know, way that businesses were wanting to engage. I mean, you think about be wanting to be where your customers are today. So many of us, um do have you know what's happened? Wechat and line and vibrant. They're all in our pocket. And being able to provide all of those two businesses is a new way to engage. I think we're finding is hugely powerful, >>right? So with with all of these dynamic changes that have been happening, and it sounds like it's actually just sort of riding the wave of what customers were already doing, we're just doing it just that little bit mawr. But have you noticed any other larger changes? Possibly ones that aren't related thio a pandemic, Just general shifts that have been happening that you've seen in your customer base? >>Yeah. I mean, like I said, I think so much of what we're seeing is that people, uh, in general want answers quickly, and whether it's a phone call is great. And like I said, people are not going to stop calling. But I think people want to make sure less than like, I need a human to have a conversation I want. I want the answer quickly, and that's where we're really focused in both thinking about how we provide tools around automating some of getting those answers using, uh, a i N m l so that people can come to us, ask questions and we can get them the best answer very quickly without, um, having Thio engage a person. I think things idea of quick resolution is clearly becoming one of the most important things in customer sentiment. I think we know that, um, Mawr and Mawr. This idea of how quickly I can get my question's resolved or how easy it is for me to do business with you is a huge differentiator in how people make buying >>choices. Mm. On that. That automation has long been a new track tive idea. I mean, I'm I'm old enough to remember expert systems and and having a go at doing this kind of heavily automated way of resolving particularly common issues. And I mean, we were familiar with Coulson, a chat scripts. Where there's here are the top three issues and or it will be in the I V. R. Where it's like we're currently experiencing this particular problems, so that resolves your question quite quickly. But there's been a big rise in things like chatbots and and the use of AI. How far advanced. Is that because I still remember some of the early forays into that were a little bit flaky, and that could actually exacerbate the poor customer experience. I'm already having a problem, and and now you're chatbots getting in the way. Have they gotten a lot better? Are they Are they up to the challenge? >>Yeah. I mean, I think what's really critical when you're thinking about automation? Um, in the conversations you're having with customers, it's it's two things. One Don't try to hide that. That you're a computer. No, no, my name is Chad. I am. I am a human. Um, you're not in the vault. Yeah, there's not anyone. Um, so I think being really clear. And then, um e think surfacing how thio very easily opt out of those flows. I think, um, you know, automation is great, but it's not away. You shouldn't think of it as a way to frustrate your users to keep them tied up until you can get to them. It really is. Give them some quick options. And if they don't? If those don't solve their problems, really make sure that your you've got an escape valve, right? We were putting out a new sort of flow build their product zendesk. And we have all of the different, uh, words that someone could say that air like smashing the zero button. That means please transfer me to a person, right? You're driving me crazy. Let me connect you to an agent. Eso We're really making sure that it's easy, um, for customers to provide the solution where their customers can get the help they need rather than I >>really like that. That's That's something I think that gets a little bit lost in the focus on computers and and on automation is that the reason we do this is to help the humans. So when we have these AI systems, it's not actually to replace. The human interaction is to make it better. It's to make mean that we can then get to that genuine connection. Computers a fabulous and when they work, it's when they don't when they frustrate things that that bothers us. And that's generally why we're calling is that something has already gone wrong and we're a bit frustrated. So adding more frustration, doesn't it? Sounds like a good approach. It sounds like zendesk really got that? That dolled in very, very well. Is that something that you've you've always had? Is it something that you've refined over time? And can you teach it to a bunch of other companies? >>Way would love to teach each other. People know, I think e think we have always thought about how the machines can help the humans. And I think one it's how can they help the customers, of course. But the other side that I don't think people talk about quite a much is how can we use computers to help agents? Right. So you're talking to a person, and how can we take sort of the best answers that they've given Thio other customers and surface those, um, when When a new agent is coming on board, how do we suggest, um, you know, the different kinds of work flows that they might want to use to solve this problem in a more dynamic way. So I really like to think of the computers never as a replacement but really as a sort of hidden superpower, Um, that organizations have to make every agent one of their best >>agents, right? Yes, it is a kind of external cyborg thing. I mean, I can't remember anything these days. I constantly right less and they all live in computers. But they are. That's the kind of society that we live with today. And I think we should remember to embrace that side of things. That ah, lot of life has actually gotten a lot better through the use of these computing systems. It's not all terrible. It's, um, and I think more companies could probably learn from zendesk. And the approach that you've taken to center the humans, both the customers and and your internal staff, the call center and and the people who are providing this service. No one enjoys it when things are breaking and and things have gone wrong being able to resolve that quickly. Thanks a better experience for everybody. >>Yeah. I mean, I think we find over and over again sometimes you know, if you can handle an issue that's gone wrong, Um well, you can actually induce more loyalty than you know. If someone never contacted. You'd also if you could really take advantage of the times you have, unfortunately, maybe messed up on bake those customers happy. You really do you know, put so much in the sort of loyalty piggy bank for later. It's really great. >>So for some of the companies that have maybe struggled with this a little bit and particularly under very trying conditions, is there's some advice that you could give to them. Is there some places that they should should start to investigate this when they want to improve the way that they handle customer service, perhaps with things like Zendesk. >>Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of what what we're focused on right now is the this channel that's coming. Like I said, we think a lot about social messaging, but also in native messaging. Andi, how you can have a sort of ongoing long term conversation for a long time customer service, sort of Holy Grail was chat, and you could have a agent online and a human online, and you could solve their problem and then move on right And and sometimes those things take a little longer to solve. Or, you know, you might have a big issue and a whole bunch of people who have an issue and maybe not enough agents to solve them. And so, with messaging. We've really changed the dynamic. So chat was this completely synchronous, Almost like a phone call. Kind of experience and more messaging. You're able to live in this sort of duality where we can have a conversation if we're both here. But just like with your friends, right? Sometimes you throw a message out to offend you. Put it in your pocket, you pick it up, and you could pick up the conversation right where you left off. So bring that paradigm into your customer support experience really allows you to take some of that fear out of handling the volume that might come from chat. To be able to sort of have these ongoing sort of back and forth conversations over time. Andi also and give that that persistent so that we're always both in the same place when we show up again together >>embracing what the technology does well and avoiding what it doesn't do. Well, that that sounds like a plan. >>Shawna, >>this has been fabulous. It is. It is always very edifying for me. Thio here, when companies are doing well and centering the humans to make the technology improve all of our lives. Um It has been wonderful to have you here on the Cube. >>Thanks so much. It was a lot of fun, right? >>And thank you for joining in and and watching us here of the Cube virtual and our special coverage off AWS reinvent 2020. Do come back and look for more coverage off. Reinvent 2020 right here on the Cube. Next time I've been your host, Justin Warren, and we'll see you again soon.

>>from >>around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 Special coverage sponsored by A. W s Global Partner Network. >>Hello and welcome to the Cube. Virtual in our coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 and our special coverage of a PM partner experience where the Cube virtual and I'm your host, Justin Warren. And today I'm joined by Mike Gill. Fix. Who is the chief product officer for IBM Cloud PACs. Mike, welcome to the Cube. >>Thank you. Thanks for happening. >>Now. Cloud PACs is a new thing from IBM. I'm not particularly familiar with it, but it's it's related to IBM's partnership with with a W s. So maybe you could just start us off quickly by explaining what is cloud packs and what's your role as chief product officer there? >>Well, Klopp acts sort of our next generation platform. What we've been doing is bringing the power of IBM software really across the board and bringing it to a hybrid cloud environments, so make it really easy for our customers to consume it wherever wherever they want, however, they want to choose to do it with a consistent skill set and making it really easy to kind of get those things up and running and deliver value quickly. And this is part of IBM hybrid approach. So what we've seen is organizations that can leverage the same skill set and, you know, basically take those work quotes, make him run where they need thio. Yields about a 2.5 times are y and cloud packs it at the center of that running on the open shift platform so they get consistent security skills and powerful software to run their business running everywhere. And we've been partnering with AWS because we want to make sure that those customers that have made that choice could get access to those capabilities easy and as fast as possible. >>Right? And and the cloud PACs have built on the red hat open. Now let me get this right. It's the open hybrid cloud platform. So is that open shift? >>It is Open shift. Yes. I >>mean, IBM >>is incredibly committed to being thio. Open software and open ship does provide that common layer, and the reason that's important is you want consistent security. You want to avoid lock in, right? That gives you a very powerful platform A fabric, if you will, that can truly run anywhere with any workload. And we've been working very closely with a W s to make sure that is Ah, Premier. First class experience on AWS. >>Yes. So the the open shift on AWS is is relatively new from IBM. So could you explain what is open shift on AWS? And how does that differ from the open shift that people may be already familiar with? >>Well, the Colonel, if you will, is the same. It's the same sort of central open source software, but in working closely with AWS were now making those things available a simple services that you can quickly provisioned and run, and that makes it really easy for people to get started. But again, sort of carrying forward that same sort of skill set. So that's kind of a key way in which we see that you can gain that sort of consistency, you know, no matter where you're running that workflow and we've been investing in that integration, working closely with them Amazon, >>right? And we all know red hats, commitment, thio, open source software and the open ecosystems. Red hat is rightly famous for it, and I I am old enough to remember when it was a brand new thing, particularly in enterprise. Thio allow open source toe to come in and have anything to do with workloads. And now it's It's ALS, the rage, and people are running quite critical workloads on it. So what are you seeing in the adoption within the enterprise off open software? >>The adoption is massive, I think. Well, first, let me describe what's driving it. I mean, people want to tap into innovation and the beauty of open source is your your kind of crowd sourcing, if you will, this massive community of developers that are creating just an incredible amount of innovation and incredible speed, and it's a great way to ensure that you avoid vendor lock in. So enterprises of all types are looking to open solutions as a way both of innovating faster and getting protection. And that commitment is something certainly redheaded tapped into its behind the great success of Red Hat. And it's something that, frankly, is permeating throughout IBM and that we're very committed to driving this sort of open approach. And that means that you know, we need to ensure that people get access to the innovation they need, run it where they want and ensure that they feel that they have choice >>on the choice. I think is a key part of it that isn't really coming through in some of the narrative that there's a lot of discussion about how you should actually, should you go cloud. I remember when it was. Either you should stay on site or should you go, Go to Cloud and we had a long discussion there. Hybrid Cloud really does seem to have come of age where it's it's a a realistic kind of compromise, probably the wrong word, but it's it's a trade off between doing all of one thing or all another. And for most enterprises, that doesn't actually seem to be the choice that that's actually viable for them. So hybrid seems like it's actually just the practical approach. Would that be accurate? >>Well, our studies have shown that if you look statistically at the set of work, oh, that's moved to clouds, you know, something like 20% of workloads have only moved to cloud, meaning the other 80% is experiencing barriers to move >>and some >>of those barriers is figuring out what to do with all this data that's sitting on Prem or, you know, these these applications that have years and years of intelligence baked into them that cannot easily be ported. And so organizations looking to hybrid approaches because they give them more choice. It helps them deal with fragmentation, meaning as I move more workload, I have consistent skill set. It helps me extend my existing investments and bring it into the cloud world. And all those things again are done with consistent security. That's really important, right? Organizations need to make sure they're protecting their assets. Their data throughout, you know, leveraging a consistent platform. So that's really the benefit of the hybrid approach. It essentially is going to enable these organizations unlocked more workload and gain the acceleration and the transformative, effective clouds. And that's why I think they're really That's why it's becoming a necessity, right, because they just can't get that 80% to move. Yah, >>Yeah, I've long said that the cloud is a state of mind rather than a particular location. It's It's more about an operational model of how you do things, so hearing that we've only got 20% of workloads have moved to this new way of doing things does rather suggest that there's a lot more work to be done. What for? Those organizations that are just looking to do this now they've they've done a bit of it and they're looking for those next new workloads. Where do you see customers struggling the most? And where do you think that IBM can help them there? >>Well, um, boy, where they struggling the most? First, I think skills. I mean, they have to figure out a new set of technologies to go and transition from the old World to the new. And at the heart of that is lots of really critical debate. Like, how do they modernize the way that they do software delivery for many enterprises, right. Embrace new ways of doing software delivery. How do they deal with the data issues that arise from where the data sets their obligations for data protection? Um, what happened to the data spans multiple different places, but you have to provide high quality performance and security thes air, all parts of issues that you know, spanned different environments. And so they have to figure out how to manage those kinds of things and make it work in one place. I think the benefit of partnering, you know, with Amazon is clearly there's a huge, you know, customer base. That's interesting. Amazon. I think the benefit of the idea and partnership is you know, we can help to go and unlock some of those new workloads and find ways to get that cloud benefit and help to move them to the cloud faster again with that consistency of experience. And that's why I think it's a good match partnership. We're giving more customers choice. We're helping them to unlock innovation substantially, faster, >>right? And so, for people who might want to just get started without how would they approach this? Do you think people might have some experience with AWS? It's It's almost difficult not to these days, but for those who aren't familiar with the red hat on a W s with open shift on AWS, how would they get started with you? Thio to explore what's possible? >>Well, one of the things that we're offering to our clients is a service that we refer to his I. D. Um garage Z you know, an engagement model, if you will, within IBM, where we work with our clients and we really help them to do co creation. So help to understand their business problem. Or, you know, the target state of where they want their I t to get to. And in working with them in co creation, you know, we help them to affect that transition. Let's say that it's about, you know, delivering business applications faster. Let's say it's about modernizing the applications they have or offering new services new business models again, all in the spirit of co creation. And we found that to be really popular. Um, it's a great way to get started. We we leverage design thinking approach. They can think about the customer experience and their outcome. If they're creating new business, processes, new applications and then really help them toe uplift their skills and, you know, get ready. Thio adopt cloud technology and everything that they dio. >>It sounds like this is, ah, lot of established workloads that people already have in their organizations. It's already there. It's generating real money. It's It's not those experimental workloads that we saw early on which was a well, let's try. This cloud is a fabulous way where we can run some experiments, and if it doesn't work, we just turn it off again. These sound like a lot more workloads, air kind of more important to the business. Is that be true? >>Yeah, I think that's true now. I wouldn't say they're just existing work clothes, because I think there's lots of new business innovation that many of our, you know, clients want to go on launch. And so this gives them an opportunity to do that new innovation but not forget the past, meaning they could bring it forward and bring it forward into an integrated experience. I mean, that's what everyone demands of a true digital business, right? They expect that your experience is integrated, that it's responsive that it's targeted and personalized, and the only way to do that is to allow for experimentation that integrates in with the, you know, standard business processes and things that you did before. And so you need to be able to connect those things together seamlessly, >>right? So it sounds like it's it's a transition more than creating new thing completely from scratch. It's well Look, we've done a lot of innovation over the past decade or so in cloud. We know what works, but we still have workloads that people clearly no one value. How do we put those things together and do it in such a way that we maintain the flexibility to be able to make new changes as we as we learn new things? >>Yeah, leverage what you've got. Play to your strength. I mean, that's that's how you create speed. If you have to reinvent the wheel every time, it's going to be a slow roll. >>Yeah, that does seem like an area where an organization, probably at this point should be looking to partner with other people who have done the hard yards. They've They've already figured this out. What, as you say, Why can't make all of these obvious areas yourself when you're you're starting from scratch? When there's a wealth of experience out there, and particularly this whole ecosystem that exists around around open software? Uh, in fact, maybe you could tell us a little bit about the ecosystem opportunities that are there because red, that's been part of this for a very long time. AWS has a very broad ecosystem is we're all familiar with being here. It reinvent yet again. How does that ecosystem claim toe? What's possible? >>I well, let me explain why I think IBM brings a different dimension to that trio, right? IBM brings the industry expertise. I mean, we've long worked with all of our clients are partners on solving some of the biggest business problems and being embedded in the thing that they do. So we have deep knowledge of their enterprise challenges where they're trying to take them. Deep knowledge of their business processes were ableto bring that that industry know how mixed with, you know, red hats approach to an open, foundational platform coupled with, you know, the great infrastructure you could get from Amazon. And, you know, that's a great sort of powerful combination that we can bring to each of our clients and, you know, maybe just to bring it back a little bit to that idea of Okay, so what's the rolling cloud packs in that? I mean, compact are the kind of software that we've built to enable enterprises to run their essential business processes right in the essential digital operations that they run everything from security to protecting their data or giving them powerful data tools to implement a I and, you know, to implement ai algorithms in the heart of their business or giving them powerful automation capabilities so they can digitize their operations and also make sure those things were going to run effectively. It's those kinds of capabilities that we're bringing in the form of cloud PACs. Think of that is that that substrate that runs a digital business that now could be brought through right running on AWS infrastructure. Good. It's integration that we've done >>right. So basically taking things that as a pre package module that we can just grab that module, drop it in and and start using it rather than having to build it ourselves from scratch. >>That's right. They make them leverage of those powerful capabilities and get focused on innovating the things that matter. Right? So the huge accelerant to getting business value. >>And it does sound a lot easier than trying to learn how to do the complex sort of deep learning and linear algorithms that they're involved in machine learning. I have looked into it a bit and trying to manage that sort of deep maths, and I think I'd much rather just just grab one off the shelf, plug it in and just use it. >>Yeah, It's also better than writing assembler code, which was some of my first programming experiences as well. So I think the software industry has moved on just a little bit since then. >>I think we have to say I do not miss the days of handwriting. Assemble at all, uh, sometimes for nostalgia reasons. But if we want to get things done, I think I'd much rather work in something a little higher level >>specific drinking. >>So thank you so much for my for my guest there. Mike Gill. Fix chief product officer for IBM Cloud PACs from IBM. This has been the cubes coverage off AWS reinvent 2020 and the a p m. Partner experience. I've been your host, Justin Warren. Make sure you come back and join us for more coverage later on

>> Narrator: From around the globe it's theCUBE, with digital coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020. Special coverage sponsored by AWS Global Partner Network. >> Hello and welcome to theCUBE Virtual and our coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020 with special coverage of APN partner experience. We are theCUBE Virtual and I'm your host, Justin Warren. And today I'm joined by Ed Walsh, CEO of ChaosSearch. Ed, welcome to theCUBE. >> Well thank you for having me, I really appreciate it. >> Now, this is not your first time here on theCUBE. You're a regular here and I've loved it to have you back. >> I love the platform you guys are great. >> So let's start off by just reminding people about what ChaosSearch is and what do you do there? >> Sure, the best way to say is so ChaosSearch helps our clients know better. We don't do that by a special wizard or a widget that you give to your, you know, SecOp teams. What we do is a hard work to give you a data platform to get insights at scale. And we do that also by achieving the promise of data lakes. So what we have is a Chaos data platform, connects and indexes data in a customer's S3 or glacier accounts. So inside your data lake, not our data lake but renders that data fully searchable and available for analysis using your existing tools today 'cause what we do is index it and publish open API, it's like API like Elasticsearch API, and soon SQL. So give you an example. So based upon those capabilities were an ideal replacement for a commonly deployed, either Elasticsearch or ELK Stack deployments, if you're hitting scale issues. So we talk about scalable log analytics, and more and more people are hitting these scale issues. So let's say if you're using Elasticsearch ELK or Amazon Elasticsearch, and you're hitting scale issues, what I mean by that is like, you can't keep enough retention. You want longer retention, or it's getting very expensive to keep that retention, or because the scale you hit where you have availability, where the cluster is hard to keep up running or is crashing. That's what we mean by the issues at scale. And what we do is simply we allow you, because we're publishing the open API of Elasticsearch use all your tools, but we save you about 80% off your monthly bill. We also give you an, and it's an and statement and give you unlimited retention. And as much as you want to keep on S3 or into Glacier but we also take care of all the hassles and management and the time to manage these clusters, which ends up being on a database server called leucine. And we take care of that as a managed service. And probably the biggest thing is all of this without changing anything your end users are using. So we include Kibana, but imagine it's an Elastic API. So if you're using API or Kibana, it's just easy to use the exact same tools used today, but you get the benefits of a true data lake. In fact, we're running now Elasticsearch on top of S3 natively. If that makes it sense. >> Right and natively is pretty cool. And look, 80% savings, is a dramatic number, particularly this year. I think there's a lot of people who are looking to save a few quid. So it'd be very nice to be able to save up to 80%. I am curious as to how you're able to achieve that kind of saving though. >> Yeah, you won't be the first person to ask me that. So listen, Elastic came around, it was, you know we had Splunk and we also have a lot of Splunk clients, but Elastic was a more cost effective solution open source to go after it. But what happens is, especially at scale, if it's fall it's actually very cost-effective. But underneath last six tech ELK Stack is a leucine database, it's a database technology. And that sits on our servers that are heavy memory count CPU count in and SSDs. So you can do on-prem or even in the clouds, so if you do an Amazon, basically you're spinning up a server and it stays up, it doesn't spin up, spin down. So those clusters are not one server, it's a cluster of those servers. And typically if you have any scale you're actually having multiple clusters because you don't dare put it on one, for different use cases. So our savings are actually you no longer need those servers to spin up and you don't need to pay for those seen underneath. You can still use Kibana under API but literally it's $80 off your bill that you're paying for your service now, and it's hard dollars. So it's not... And we typically see clients between 70 and 80%. It's up to 80, but it's literally right within a 10% margin that you're saving a lot of money, but more importantly, saving money is a great thing. But now you have one unified data lake that you can have. You used to go across some of the data or all the data through the role-based access. You can give different people. Like we've seen people who say, hey give that, help that person 40 days of this data. But the SecOp up team gets to see across all the different law. You know, all the machine generated data they have. And we can give you a couple of examples of that and walk you through how people deploy if you want. >> I'm always keen to hear specific examples of how customers are doing things. And it's nice that you've thought of drawn that comparison there around what what cloud is good for and what it isn't is. I'll often like to say that AWS is cheap to fail in, but expensive to succeed. So when people are actually succeeding with this and using this, this broad amount of data so what you're saying there with that savings I've actually got access to a lot more data that I can do things with. So yeah, if you could walk through a couple of examples of what people are doing with this increased amount of data that they have access to in EKL Search, what are some of the things that people are now able to unlock with that data? >> Well, literally it's always good for a customer size so we can go through and we go through it however it might want, Kleiner, Blackboard, Alert Logic, Armor Security, HubSpot. Maybe I'll start with HubSpot. One of our good clients, they were doing some Cloud Flare data that was one of their clusters they were using a lot to search for. But they were looking at to look at a denial service. And they were, we find everyone kind of at scale, they get limited. So they were down to five days retention. Why? Well, it's not that they meant to but basically they couldn't cost-effectively handle that in the scale. And also they're having scale issues with the environment, how they set the cluster and sharding. And when they also denial service tech, what happened that's when the influx of data that is one thing about scale is how fast it comes out, yet another one is how much data you have. But this is as the data was coming after them at denial service, that's when the cluster would actually go down believe it or not, you know right. When you need your log analysis tools. So what we did is because they're just using Kibana, it was easy swap. They ran in parallel because we published the open API but we took them from five days to nine days. They could keep as much as they want but nine days for denial services is what they wanted. And then we did save them in over $4 million a year in hard dollars, What they're paying in their environment from really is the savings on the server farm and a little bit on the Elasticsearch Stack. But more importantly, they had no outages since. Now here's the thing. Are you talking about the use case? They also had other clusters and you find everyone does it. They don't dare put it on one cluster, even though these are not one server, they're multiple servers. So the next use case for CloudFlare was one, the next QS and it was a 10 terabyte a day influx kept it for 90 days. So it's about a petabyte. They brought another use case on which was NetMon, again, Network Monitoring. And again, I'm having the same scale issue, retention area. And what they're able to do is easily roll that on. So that's one data platform. Now they're adding the next one. They have about four different use cases and it's just different clusters able to bring together. But now what they're able to do give you use cases either they getting more cost effective, more stability and freedom. We say saves you a lot of time, cost and complexity. Just the time they manage that get the data in the complexities around it. And then the cost is easy to kind of quantify but they've got better but more importantly now for particular teams they only need their access to one data but the SecOP team wants to see across all the data. And it's very easy for them to see across all the data where before it was impossible to do. So now they have multiple large use cases streaming at them. And what I love about that particular case is at one point they were just trying to test our scale. So they started tossing more things at it, right. To see if they could kind of break us. So they spiked us up to 30 terabytes a day which is for Elastic would even 10 terabytes a day makes things fall over. Now, if you think of what they just did, what were doing is literally three steps, put your data in S3 and as fast as you can, don't modify, just put it there. Once it's there three steps connect to us, you give us readability access to those buckets and a place to write the indexy. All of that stuff is in your S3, it never comes out. And then basically you set up, do you want to do live or do you want to do real time analysis? Or do you want to go after old data? We do the rest, we ingest, we normalize the schema. And basically we give you our back and the refinery to give the right people access. So what they did is they basically throw a whole bunch of stuff at it. They were trying to outrun S3. So, you know, we're on shoulders of giants. You know, if you think about our platform for clients what's a better dental like than S3. You're not going to get a better cross curve, right? You're not going to get a better parallelism. And so, or security it's in your, you know a virtual environment. But if you... And also you can keep data in the right location. So Blackboard's a good example. They need to keep that in all the different regions and because it's personal data, they, you know, GDPR they got to keep data in that location. It's easy, we just put compute in each one of the different areas they are. But the net net is if you think that architecture is shoulders of giants if you think you can outrun by just sheer volume or you can put in more cost-effective place to keep long-term or you think you can out store you have so much data that S3 and glacier can't possibly do it. Then you got me at your bigger scale at me but that's the scale we'r&e talking about. So if you think about the spiked our throughput what they really did is they try to outrun S3. And we didn't pick up. Now, the next thing is they tossed a bunch of users at us which were just spinning up in our data fabric different ways to do the indexing, to keep up with it. And new use cases in case they're going after everyone gets their own worker nodes which are all expected to fail in place. So again, they did some of that but really they're like you guys handled all the influx. And if you think about it, it's the shoulders of giants being on top of an Amazon platform, which is amazing. You're not going to get a more cost effective data lake in the world, and it's continuing to fall in price. And it's a cost curve, like no other, but also all that resiliency, all that security and the parallelism you can get, out of an S3 Glacier is just a bar none is the most scalable environment, you can build an environment. And what we do is a thin layer. It's a data platform that allows you to have your data now fully searchable and queryable using your tools >> Right and you, you mentioned there that, I mean you're running in AWS, which has broad experience in doing these sorts of things at scale but on that operational management side of things. As you mentioned, you actually take that off, off the hands of customers so that you run it on their behalf. What are some of the areas that you see people making in trying to do this themselves, when you've gone into customers, and brought it into the EKL Search platform? >> Yeah, so either people are just trying their best to build out clusters of Elasticsearch or they're going to services like Logz.io, Sumo Logic or Amazon Elasticsearch services. And those are all basically on the same ELK Stack. So they have the exact same limits as the same bits. Then we see people trying to say, well I really want to go to a data lake. I want to get away from these database servers and which have their limits. I want to use a data Lake. And then we see a lot of people putting data into environments before they, instead of using Elasticsearch, they want to use SQL type tools. And what they do is they put it into a Parquet or Presto form. It's a Presto dialect, but it into Parquet and structure it. And they go a lot of other way to, Hey it's in the data lake, but they end up building these little islands inside their data lake. And it's a lot of time to transform the data, to get it in a format that you can go after our tools. And then what we do is we don't make you do that. Just literally put the data there. And then what we do is we do the index and a polish API. So right now it's Elasticsearch in a very short time we'll publish Presto or the SQL dialect. You can use the same tool. So we do see people, either brute forcing and trying their best with a bunch of physical servers. We do see another group that says, you know, I want to go use an Athena use cases, or I want to use a there's a whole bunch of different startups saying, I do data lake or data lake houses. But they are, what they really do is force you to put things in the structure before you get insight. True data lake economics is literally just put it there, and use your tools natively to go after it. And that's where we're unique compared to what we see from our competition. >> Hmm, so with people who have moved into ChaosSearch, what's, let's say pick one, if you can, the most interesting example of what people have started to do with, with their data. What's new? >> That's good. Well, I'll give you another one. And so Armor Security is a good one. So Armor Security is a security service company. You know, thousands of clients doing great I mean a beautiful platform, beautiful business. And they won Rackspace as a partner. So now imagine thousand clients, but now, you know massive scale that to keep up with. So that would be an example but another example where we were able to come in and they were facing a major upgrade of their environment just to keep up, and they expose actually to their customers is how their customers do logging analytics. What we're able to do is literally simply because they didn't go below the API they use the exact same tools that are on top and in 30 days replaced that use case, save them tremendous amount of dollars. But now they're able to go back and have unlimited retention. They used to restrict their clients to 14 days. Now they have an opportunity to do a bunch of different things, and possible revenue opportunities and other. But allow them to look at their business differently and free up their team to do other things. And now they're, they're putting billing and other things into the same environment with us because one is easy it's scale but also freed up their team. No one has enough team to do things. And then the biggest thing is what people do interesting with our product is actually in their own tools. So, you know, we talk about Kibana when we do SQL again we talk about Looker and Tableau and Power BI, you know, the really interesting thing, and we think we did the hard work on the data layer which you can say is, you know I can about all the ways you consolidate the performance. Now, what becomes really interesting is what they're doing at the visibility level, either Kibana or the API or Tableau or Looker. And the key thing for us is we just say, just use the tools you're used to. Now that might be a boring statement, but to me, a great value proposition is not changing what your end users have to use. And they're doing amazing things. They're doing the exact same things they did before. They're just doing it with more data at bigger scale. And also they're able to see across their different machine learning data compared to being limited going at one thing at a time. And that getting the correlation from a unified data lake is really what we, you know we get very excited about. What's most exciting to our clients is they don't have to tell the users they have to use a different tool, which, you know, we'll decide if that's really interesting in this conversation. But again, I always say we didn't build a new algorithm that you going to give the SecOp team or a new pipeline cool widget that going to help the machine learning team which is another API we'll publish. But basically what we do is a hard work of making the data platform scalable, but more importantly give you the APIs that you're used to. So it's the platform that you don't have to change what your end users are doing, which is a... So we're kind of invisible behind the scenes. >> Well, that's certainly a pretty strong proposition there and I'm sure that there's plenty of scope for customers to come and and talk to you because no one's creating any less data. So Ed, thanks for coming out of theCUBE. It's always great to see you here. >> Know, thank you. >> You've been watching theCUBE Virtual and our coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020 with special coverage of APN partner experience. Make sure you check out all our coverage online, either on your desktop, mobile on your phone, wherever you are. I've been your host, Justin Warren. And I look forward to seeing you again soon. (soft music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe it's theCUBE, with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 special coverage sponsored by AWS global partner network. >> Hello, and welcome to theCUBE virtual with our special coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 with additional special coverage of APN partner experience. We are theCUBE virtual and I'm your host, Justin Warren. And today I'm joined by Angelos Kottas who is vice president of product marketing at elastic and he comes to us from San Francisco. Angelos , welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, Justin. A pleasure to join you. >> Great to have you here. Now. I've been a big fan of elastic for a while have used your products in a variety of circumstances? You're big partners of AWS and have seen quite a bit of change over the last couple of years. We were talking just before we came on air. Maybe you could talk us through what elastic is doing with AWS and a little bit about those changes that you've seen over the last >> Absolutely one period. >> Sounds good Justin. So first of all many people know elastic as the makers of elastic search. One of the most popular open source of search engines and along with elastic search we have Kibana and beats and Logstash and many people know us as the Elk Stack, right? And so clearly we have roots in the open source community and people have used us for custom applications for years and years. One of the key changes over the last few years is that we've realized that many customers were doing some of the same things with elastic. So we said, what if we really focus on end to end experiences for our three core use cases? And so we chose three use cases and built solutions around them. What is enterprise search, right? Which is how do you find information on your website in your application or in your workspace? The second is observability. So think about software development software in every industry. What about dev ops? What about performance? What about consistency and last but not least, especially you know, with some of the current transitions in digital transformation, think about security. Think about your network security, your endpoint security and how you have visibility across your entire IT ecosystem. So we've chosen those three solution areas and put significant engineering into building out that experience. How quickly can we deliver value, how pre-built can the configuration be the integrations be, the workflow, the reporting and the dashboards around those use cases. The last piece, which is very relevant for reinvent is the transition to cloud, right? So we still offer a downloadable software and many of our customers and users download the elastic stack and deploy it on-prem and hybrid cloud environments. But one of the fastest growing deployment models is in the public cloud. And of course, elastic cloud on AWS is one of our major routes to market, happy to meet many of our customers where they are, which is on AWS. >> Oh it's great to be able to have that choice I think that people can download the software try and get it, get comfortable with it but then people often find that actually running software yourself, there's quite a lot of work involved in doing that. I know that I, I've experienced that myself. Just little things like maintenance and so on. So it sounds like you're actually taking care of a lot of that for customers if they move to the cloud service. But is there anything else special about the cloud service that customers might not be that aware of? >> Well, I mean, choice is a big part of it and so it's not just do I choose cloud it's wearing cloud. So we've actually, we now run elastic cloud in over 40 regions around the world. So we can be close to you in terms of latency, and in terms of performance, in terms of data sovereignty we can be local to your environment. The other aspect it's not just how we simplify deploying elastic. You know, clearly we architect it we install it, deploy and upgraded for you. But also we have focused quite a bit on integrating cloud data sources. So with AWS, as an example, we look at all of the applications and data sources that you host on AWS. And we think about how do we get those data streams how do we get that data directly integrated into elastic. One final piece, actually which I forget sometimes it's not the technical side. It's the business side is the commercial integration, right? So we are, you know, very happy to to be listed on the AWS marketplace. We've made it easy for you to find, deploy and actually build through your AWS commercial agreements via the marketplace integration. >> Right, so easy to get started and to start using it and search is certainly something that elastic is famous for. But you mentioned observability there, a bit of a question I have around observability is, is it that just a fancy way of saying monitoring? There seems to be this, this buzzword around the place. So what do you mean when you say observability? >> So one of the key foundational principles of the elastic observability solution is that, you know you want a unified data database a unified place to store all that data. So it is stretching across logs metrics, application traces it's bringing together a common platform that lets you look at different aspects of observability. So whether you're doing end to end application traces or whether you're just collecting infrastructure logs and looking at performance metrics it's kind of across the board, even looking at things in our most recent release that just came out last week, you know expanding on user experience, monitoring and synthetics. So you can optimize web interactions and web experiences, for example. >> Right. Okay. So there's a bunch of different types of data that are involved there. I know traditionally people would silo those off into a specific customized thing just for that particular type of workload. What is it about elastic that means that you can put all of these in one place? >> Yeah. You know, one of early catchphrases for what does elastic do? What do we focus on? The value we deliver is speed, scale and relevance. And so one of the things that is famous about the elastic way of doing things is the way in which we index data on ingest and so that you can get search queries that return within milliseconds and so that performance characteristics. A second one is scale. And this is actually really key, not just for observability but right next to observability, you get security as well. We like to say, if you're going to observe you might as well protect as well. So when you expand to that universe you have not just hundreds of devices you might have thousands or tens of thousands of devices that you are ingesting information whether it's operational data, whether it's security data. So scale becomes extremely significant. How can you scale horizontally and vertically and maintain that performance even when you are in a fortune 500 scale infrastructure The last piece is relevance. And so, you know that data it's not just about knowing what to look for. It's about using things like machine learning and anomaly detection to uncover unusual patterns of behavior and proactively alerting and making that visible through notifications and through alerts that can actually integrate not just with your elastic operations but actually with third party software. Maybe you want to trigger a service now ticket or a, you know, a Slack integration and all of that is part of the elastic platform as well. >> Right? Okay. So by putting everything kind of in one place that is around what you're talking about. So we have enterprise search and then to be able to find things we're collecting all of the data that we need to find things. And then you touched on security at the beginning and we're starting to talk around security there. So I'm keen to move on to that >> (chuckles) >> By looking at all of these, these different, these signals we can hopefully then manage some of security which I know is very much front of mind for everyone over the last year. Cyber security has very much come to the forefront of everyone's thinking. >> Absolutely. And you know, we've been on the network side of security for some time. So we've had our SIM solution, you know security information event monitoring, but we made a very strategic acquisition a little over a year ago. We saw that a critical piece of visibility is also the end point. And so we partnered with end game and eventually we acquired end game to create end to end visibility on that security. So it is being able to connect, you know the path of data from your servers and network devices all the way to the end points. And an example of the power of this unified architecture is the new elastication that we introduced in beta a couple of months ago. We said, what if we had a single deployment that both does endpoint protection and does malware scanning of your endpoint devices while also ingesting data into your observability systems. And so that's kind of the power of the platform the ability to use common infrastructure common integrations, so that every use case you adopt on top of elastic, it sort of multiplies the value you're getting from using elastic as an infrastructure player. >> Alright that's a good combining a couple of different things into the one tool that you can use. I know sys who I'd spoken to are quite concerned about the proliferation of tools that they have in their environment, it seems that they've bought lots of different things but a lot of them are kind of sitting in a drawer, not really being used. And partly, it's just, we we have so many different ways of dealing with these issues. None of it's really flushed out or sorry has been fully fleshed out that we definitely know this is the one true way to solve this. So what are you hearing from customers as they start to use these security functions? What are they telling you about the way that they're managing security in their environments? >> Well, you know, we think about a few different personas in the security market, right? We think about threat hunters, for example who are looking to identify threats, we're looking at the operations team that do the cleanup that do the you know, the resolution of security threats. And we also, so there's a, you know, there's two competing terms in the security market. We have security operations in the observability world. We have dev ops, right? And, and developer, you know, the continue of developer and deployment into a dev ops role. And so we're starting to see this concept of DevSecOps, right? What if there is a unified set it's not all things to all people and that's an important thing, right? We're not trying to be, your single security vendor for all IT security needs, but instead we're saying, what if you had a security operations analyst, a thrent Hunter an executive, a CSO who's looking for, you know an overall level of threat or compliance to policy and you can bring those experiences together through the elastic security solution. >> Right? So it sounds like you you're trying to allow people to work in the way that they need to providing them the tools that suit their particular circumstance. >> That's right. That's right. I mean, in terms of how do you define success? You look at metrics like meantime to resolution, you know can we reduce the meantime to resolution or you look at law collection and how much more efficiently can you collect logs? You look at asset monitoring and what percentage of your IT infrastructure you actually have unified visibility into, you know we have one great cloud customer OALEKS group. They are a popular online marketplace, you know and they quoted to us that they had a 1900% increase in law collection, right. In terms of scope of what they are collecting logs on they reduce that MTTR by 30% for security incidents so dramatically streamlined and shortened the exposure. And then they increased asset monitoring by 35% across cloud, as well as on-prem. And I think that's the other piece is that, you know whether you deploy your security in the cloud or on-prem you are looking to secure your hybrid environment. And so being able to take data feeds from your SAS partners from your infrastructure running on AWS as well as from those endpoint devices. >> Well, it sounds like there's plenty of scope of interesting things for people to come and have a look at it, at elastic. So, Angelos, thank you so much for joining us here, please. Thank you to my guests Angelos Kottas, vice president of product marketing at elastic. You've been watching theCUBE virtual and our coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 with special coverage of APN partner experience. Make sure you check out all our coverage on your desktop laptop or on your phone, wherever you are. I've been your host, Justin Warren. And I look forward to seeing you again soon. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >>Hello and welcome to the Cube virtual here with coverage of aws reinvent 2020. I'm your host, Justin Warren. And today I'm joined by J. Snyder, who is the chief chief customer officer at New Relic J. Welcome to the Cube. >>It is fantastic. Me back with the Cube. One of my favorite things to do has been for years. So I appreciate you having me. >>Yes, a bit of a cube veteran. Been on many times. So it's great to have you with us here again. Eso you've got some news about new relic and and Amazon away W s strategic collaboration agreement. I believe so. Maybe tell us a bit more about what that actually is and what it means. >>Yes. So we've been partners with AWS for years, but most recently in the last two weeks, we've just announced a five year strategic partnership that really expands on the relationship that we already had. We had a number of integrations and competencies already in place, but this is a big deal to us. and and we believe a big deal. Teoh A W s Aziz Well, so really takes all the work we've done to what I'll call the next level. It's joint technology development where were initially gonna be embedding new relic one right into the AWS management console for ease of use and really agility for anyone who's developing and implementing Ah cloud strategy, uh, big news as well from an adoption relative to purchase power so you can purchase straight through the AWS marketplace and leverage your existing AWS spend. And then we're gonna really be able to tap into the AWS premier partner ecosystem. So we get more skills, more scale as we look to drive consulting and skills development in any implementation for faster value realization and overall success in the cloud. So that's the high level. Happy to get into a more detailed level if you're interested around what I think it means to companies but just setting the stage, we're really excited about it as a company. In fact, I just left a call with a W S to join this call as we start to build out the execution plan for the next five years look like >>fantastic. So for those who might be new to new relic and aren't particularly across the sort of field of observe ability, could you just give us a quick overview of what new relic does? And and then maybe talk about what the strategic partnership means for for the nature of new relics business? >>Yes, so when I think about observe ability and what it means to us as opposed to the market at large, I would say our vision around observe ability is around one word, and that word is simplification. So, you know, I talked to a lot of customers. That's what I do all the time. And every time I do, I would say that there's three themes that come up over and over. It's the need to deliver a customer experience with improved up time and ever improving importance. It's the need to move more quickly to public cloud to embrace the scale and efficiency public cloud services have to offer. And then it's the need to improve the efficiency and speed of their own engineering teams so they can deliver innovation through software more quickly. And if you think about all those challenges And what observe ability is it's the one common thread that cuts across all those right. It's taking all of the operational data that your system admits it helps you measure improve the customer, experience your ability to move to public cloud and compare that experience before you start to after you get there. The effectiveness of your team before you deploy toe after you get there. And it's all the processes around that right, it helps you be almost able to be there before your there there. I mean, if that makes sense right, you'll be able to troubleshoot before the event actually happens or occurs. So our vision for this is like I talked about earlier is all about simply simplification. And we've broken this down into literally three piece parts, right? Three products. That's all we are. The first is about having a much data as you possibly can. I talked about admitting that transactional telemetry data, so we've created a telemetry data platform which rides on the world's most powerful database, and we believe that if we can take all of that data, all that infrastructure and application data and bring it into that database, including open source data and allow you to query it, analyze it and take action against it. Um, that's incredibly powerful, but that's only part one. Further, we have a really strong point of view that anybody who has the ability to break production should have the ability to fix production. And for us, that's giving them full stack observe ability. So it's the ability to action against all of that data that sits in the data platform. And then finally, we believe that you need to have applied intelligence because there's so many things that are happening in these complex environments. You wanna be able to cut through the noise and reduce it to find those insights and take action in a way that leverages machine learning. And that, for us, is a i ops. So really for us. Observe ability. When I talked about simplification, we've simplified what is a pretty large market with a whole bunch of products, just down to three simple things. A data platform, the ability to operationalize in action against that data and then layer on top in the third layer, that cake machine learning so it could be smarter than you can be so it sees problems before they occur. And that And that's what that's what I would say observe, ability is to us, and it's the ability to do that horizontally and vertically across your entire infrastructure in your entire stack. I hope that makes sense. >>Yeah, there's a lot of dig into there, So let's let's start with some of that operational side of things because I've long been a big believer in the idea of cloud is being a state of mind rather than a particular location on. A lot of people have been embracing Cloud Way Know that for we're about 10 or so years. And the and the size of reinvent is proven out how popular cloud could be. Eso some of those operational aspects that you were talking about there about the ability to react are particularly like that. You you were saying that anyone who could break production should be able to fix production. That's a very different way of working than what many organizations would be used to. So how is new relic helping customers to understand what they need to change about how they operate their business as they adopt some of these methods. >>Well, it's a great question. There's a couple of things we do. So we have an observe ability, maturity framework by which we employ deploy and that, and I don't want to bore the audience here. But needless to say, it's been built over the last year, year and a half by using hundreds of customers as a test case to determine effectively that there is a process that most companies go through to get to benefits realization. And we break those benefit categories into two different areas, one around operational efficiency and agility. The other is around innovation and digital experience. So you were talking about operational efficiency, and in there we have effectively three or four different ways and what I call boxes on how we would double, click and triple click into a set of actions that would lead you to an operational outcome. So we have learned over time and apply to methodology and approach to measure that. So depending on what you're trying to do, whether it's meantime to recover or meantime, to detect, or if you've got hundreds of developers and you're finding that they're ineffective or inefficient and you want to figure out how to deploy those resource is to different parts of the environment so you can get them to better use their time. It all depends on what your business outcome and business objective is. We have a way to measure that current state your effectiveness ply rigor to it and the design a process by using new relic one to fill in those gaps. And it can take on the burden of a lot of those people. E hate to say it because I'm not looking to replace any individual. It's really about freeing up their time to allow them to go do something in a more effective and more effective, efficient manner. So I don't know if that's answering the question perfectly, but >>e don't think there is a perfect answer to its. Every customer is a bit different. >>S So this is exactly why we developed the methodology because every customer is a little different. The rationale, though, is yeah, So the rationale there's a lot of common I was gonna say there's a lot of common themes, So what we've been able to develop over time with this framework is that we've built a catalog of use cases and experiences that we can apply against you. So depending on what your business objectives are and what you're trying to achieve, were able to determine and really auger in there and assess you. What is your maturity level of being able to deliver against these? Are you even using the platform to the level of maturity that would allow you to gain this benefit realization? And that's where we're adding a massive amount of value. And we see that every single day with our customers who are actually quite surprised by the power of the platform. I mean, if you think traditionally back not too far, two or even three years. People thought of new relic as an a P M. Company. And I think with the launch this summer, this past July with new relic one, we've really pivoted to a platform company. So while a lot of companies love new relic for a PM, they're now starting to see the power of the platform and what we can do for them by operationally operationalize ing. Those use cases around agility and effectiveness to drive cost and make people b'more useful and purposeful with their time so they can create better software. >>Yeah, I think that's something that people are realizing a lot more lately than they were previously. I think that there was a lot of TC analysis that was done on a replacement of FTE basis, but I think many organizations have realized that well, actually, that doesn't mean that those people go away. They get re tasked to do new things. So any of these efficiency, you start with efficiency. And it turns out actually being about business agility about doing new things with the same sort with the same people that you have who now don't have to do some of these more manual and fairly boring tasks. >>Yeah, just e Justin. If this if this cube interview thing doesn't work out for you were hiring some value engineers Right now it sounds like you've got the talk track down perfectly, because that's exactly what we're seeing in the market place. So I agree. >>So give us some examples, if you can, of maybe one or two off things that you've seen that customers have have used new relic where they've stripped out some of that make work or the things that they don't really need to be doing. And then they're turning that into new agility and have created something new, something more individual. Have you got an example you could share with us? >>You know, it's it's funny way were just I just finished doing our global customer advisory boards, which is, you know, rough and tough about 100 customers around the world. So we break it into the three theaters, and we just we were just talking with a particular customer. I don't want to give their name, but the session was called way broke the sessions into two different buckets, and I think every customer buys products like New Relic for two reasons. One is to either help them save money or to help them make money. So we actually split the sessions into those two areas and e think you're talking about how do we help them? How do we help them save money? And this particular company that was in the media industry talked at great length about the fact that they are a massive news conglomerate. They have a whole bunch of individual business units. They were decentralized and non standardized as it related to understanding how their software was getting created, how they were defining and, um, determining meantime to recover performance metrics. All these things were happening around them in a highly complex environment, just like we see with a lot of our customers, right? The complexity of the environments today are really driving the need for observe ability. So one of the things we did with them is we came in and we apply the same type of approach that we just discussed. We did a maturity assessment for them, and we find a found a variety of areas where they were very immature and using capabilities that existed within the platform. So we're able to light up a variety of things around. Insights were able to take more data in from a logging perspective. And again, I'm probably getting a little bit into the weeds for this particular session. But needless to say, way looked at the full gamut of metrics, events, logs and traces which was wasn't really being done in observe, ability, strategy, manner, and deploy that across the entire enterprise so created a standard platform for all the data in this particular environment. Across 5th, 14 different business units and as a byproduct, they were able to do a variety of things. One, the up time for a lot of their customer facing media applications improved greatly. We actually started to pivot from actually driving cost to showing how they could quote unquote make money, because the digital experience they were creating for a lot of their customers reduced the time to glass, if you will, for clicking the button and how quickly they could see the next page, the next page or whatever online app they were looking to get dramatically. So as a byproduct of this, they were about the repurpose to the point you made Justin. Dozens of resource is off of what was traditionally maintenance mode and fighting fires in a reactive capability towards building new code and driving new innovation in the marketplace. And they gave a couple of examples of new applications that they were able to bring to market without actually having to hire any net New resource is so again, I don't want to give away the name, the company, it maybe it was a little too high level, but it actually plays perfectly into exactly what what you're describing, Um, >>that is a good example of one of those that one of the it's always nice to have a specific concrete customer doing one of these kinds of things that you you describe in generic terms. Okay. No, this is this is being applied very specifically to one customer. So we're seeing those sorts of things more and more. >>Yeah, and I was gonna give you, you know, I thought about in advance of this session. You know, what is a really good example of what's happening in the world around us today? And I thought of particular company that we just recently worked with, which is check. I don't know if you're familiar with keg, if you've heard of them. But their education technology company based in California and they do digital and physical textbook rentals. They do online tutoring an online customer services. So, Justin, if you're like me or the rest of the world and you have kids who are learning at home right now, think about the amount of pressure and strain that's now being put on this poor company Check to keep their platform operational 24 77 days a week. So that students can learn at pace and keep up right. And it's an unbelievable success story for us and one that I love, because it touches me personally because I have three kids all doing online, learning in a variety of different manners right now. And, you know, we talked about it earlier. The complexity of some of the environments today, this is a company that you would never gas, but they run 500 micro services and highly complex, uh, technical architectural right. So we had to come in and help these folks, and we're able to produce their meantime to recover because they were having a lot of issues with their ability to provide a seamless performance experience. Because you could imagine the volume of folks hitting them these days on. Reduce that meantime to recover by five X. So it's just another example we're able to say, you know, it's a real world example. Were you able to actually reduce the time to recover, to provide a better experience and whether or not you want to say that saving money or making money? What I know for sure is is giving an incredible experience so that folks in the next generation of great minds aren't focused on learning instead of waiting to learn right, So very cool. >>That is very cool. And yes, and I have gone through the whole teaching kids >>about on >>which is, uh, which it was. It was disruptive, not necessarily in a good way, but we all we adapted and learned how to do it in a new way, which is, uh, it was a lot easier towards the end than it was at the beginning. >>I'd say we're still getting there at the Snyder household. Justin, we're still getting >>was practice makes perfect eso for organizations like check that who might be looking at JAG and thinking that that sounds like a bit of a success story. I want to learn more about how new relic might be able to help me. How should they start? >>Well, there's a lot of ways they can start. I mean, one of the most exciting things about our launch in July was that we have a new free tier. So for anybody who's interested in understanding the power of observe ability, you could go right to our website and you can sign up for free and you can start to play with new relic one. I think once you start playing for, we're gonna find the same thing that happens to most of the folks to do that. They're gonna play more and more and more, and they're gonna start Thio really embrace the power. And there's an incredible new relic university that has fantastic training online. So as you start to dabble in that free tier, start to see with the power and the potential is you'll probably sign up for some classes. Next thing you know, you're often running, so that is one of the easiest ways to get exposed to it. So certainly check us out at our website and you can find out all about that free tier. And what observe ability could potentially mean to you or your business. >>And as part of the AWS reinvent experience, are they able to engage with you in some way? >>It could definitely come by our booth, check us out, virtually see what we have to say. We'd love to talk to them, and we'd be happy to talk to you about all the powerful things we're doing with A. W. S. in the marketplace to help meet you wherever you are in your cloud journey, whether it's pre migration during migration, post migration or even optimization. We've got some incredible statistics on how we can help you maximize and leverage your investment in AWS. And we're really excited to be a strategic partner with them. And, you know, it's funny. It's, uh, for me to see how observe ability this platform can really touch every single facet of that cloud migration journey. And, you know, I was thinking originally, as I got exposed to this, it would be really useful for identity Met entity relationship management at the pre migration phase and then possibly at the post migration flays is you try to baseline and measure results. But what I've come to learn through our own process, of moving our own business to the AWS cloud, that there's tremendous value everywhere along that journey. That's incredibly exciting. So not only are we a great partner, but I'm excited that we will be what I call first and best customer of AWS ourselves new relic as we make our own journey to the cloud >>or fantastic and I'm I encourage any customers who might be interested in new relic Thio definitely gone and check you out as part of the show. Thank you. J. J. Snyder from New Relic. You've been watching the Cube virtual and our coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. Make sure that you check out all the rest of the cube coverage of AWS reinvent on your desktop laptop your phone wherever you are. I've been your host, Justin Warren, and I look forward to seeing you again soon.

>>from >>around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent >>2020 sponsored >>by Intel, AWS and our community >>partners. >>Hi. And welcome to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host, Justin Warren. And today I am joined by two lovely gentlemen. We have Brian Cahill from a company called Frog Slur, which is interesting. And we also have Chad Kenny from Clooney. Oh, gentlemen, welcome to AWS reinvent 2020 Chad, It's bean about what A year since I think we last spoke at at reinvent last year. Why don't you catch us up on what's been happening in the last year of the Korean Times >>s? Um we're excited to be here. Justin, thanks so much for the introduction and hosting us. So it's been an exciting action back here. I will say we've had a bunch of new innovations. I think last time we talked, we were just getting our first native solution inside of AWS for EBS. And since then we've evolved the dissolution dramatically. Claudio is ah, secure backup is a service offering for the enterprise, and this allowed us to be able to scale from just EBS into being the industry's first platform to go across public, private and SAS all in one service, >>and >>we innovated within AWS a ton. So we expanded from CBS Thio, Easy to and RDS. We brought in one of the most native services Outside of snapshots. We kind of progress the enterprise from the traditional snapshot primitive into a true enterprise class Back up on built in a time series Data Lake that allows, you know, enterprises to decouple their data from the infrastructure and really be able to provide tons of value into the future. So it's an exciting time for us. Toe, you know, really bring new innovative solutions to the market. >>That's an impressive amount of work given whatever else has been going on in the last 12 months, Teoh be able to ship that much stuff. You've been really, really busy. Um, brought Brian on now. Brian Frog Slayer. Tell me. Tell me a bit about the background for the name of the company they >>frogs layer. The name actually came from a initial founder who, you know, was trying to protect the animals, wanted to take care of nature and stuff and actually stepped on frog. So you got nicknamed by his buddies frogs here and that, then became the company name. >>So tell us about frogs layer. What is it that and your role there. What is it the Frog Slayer does? And what's your role there? >>Frogs there does business consulting. And then we developed custom software star goals to help businesses get past ah, hurdle. So a growth business that's that's kind of stuck make them more efficient, more productive thing kind of move to the next level. And my role here is the head of I t. That custom software rebuild we host for our clients. And so we try to offer to them is a SAS solution. So it's not only a custom software, but it's kind of offered a SAS solution them to consume. >>Terrific. So >>how long has >>the relationship with Clooney I've been going on? >>It's been about four months now, >>all right. And how did you get introduced Thio chat on the team in Colombia? >>Um, we started with AWS writing our own backup scripts and as we started to move more of their past services like RDS and then RDS went to serve Earless and Aurora the You just have to keep upgrading and changing and tweaking your scripts. And so we started looking round to say, Is there, uh is there a software we could use instead of doing this ourselves? And so through a bar, we got connected with Clooney? Oh, we're checking out a whole bunch of solutions. And most of them were snapshot managers just using the a p i s to do the same things we were doing. Whereas Clooney I was doing it totally differently where they would actually take a snapshot and then rehydrate it, take that data and then make it more like a traditional backup where you could d duplicate it and save on costs and stuff. >>Right? Okay, so, Chad, is that something that you've been? Is that one of the many features that you've added in the last 12 months? Or is this something that a little more fundamental to the way Columbia works? It's >>very fundamental. I think what we're doing is both doing efficiencies around the data itself. So do you do compression and, of course, security around encryption. But we ingest the data index and catalog it on, then make it so that customers could get fine grained granularity for how they restore even down to the database record. And so one of the big things that we've seen, especially in Cloud First customers such as frogs Layer is they're really trying to use either the native tools to start with or build your own type. Models on the costs increased dramatically. The complexity of not having a catalog and index make restores incredibly hard. Andi. It just becomes, ah, much more painful model of hidden costs, left and right. And so what we wanted to do was really provide unique simplicity to be able to protect all of the AWS accounts and even all of the data assets across clouds in one single pane of glass and give a user experience that was dramatically different than having to run very scripts or build your own or have a tool on prim and have a different tool for this cloud versus another cloud. And by having this consolidated index obviously drive a ton of value around leverage from the data, >>Hmm, >>interesting. So, Brian, you mentioned that this is your relationship with Colombia has Bean only about sort of four months that sort of smack in the middle of the pandemic that's been going on here was Was that a trigger for you looking at alternate options? Or were Or is this something that you've been planning for a while? >>No. This has been on a road map for a little while. Um, just as we start using more AWS services and trying to figure out how do we scale what we're doing? Um, we're looking for Mormon Enterprise Backup. But then, as we looked around most the backup solutions, you end up hosting the software upgrade in the software and maintaining things on. >>Have you noticed a major change since you've been using Colombia? >>Yes, What Cuneo offered was the ability to because it's a fast solution. It's a There's an air gap between us and the backup, so I'm not hosting the backups or the data. It's in a separate account, and I can't even delete it. So there's kind of a protection level that someone who are and can't accidentally delete the stuff we're backing up >>right? And one thing that I've noticed is in the news a lot more over the last couple of days. But it's certainly been hitting a lot this year is the idea of ransomware. So a lot of customers that certainly that I speak to have been quite concerned that what's going on with that? So how are you Brian addressing that within your organization? Do you feel comfortable that you're well protected and what else are you looking at? But you're trying to protect yourselves from >>right when it comes to ransom, where we try to have our client data in such a way that no one person can access or delete all of it. And so that's where we initially had separate AWS accounts for every client and with Columbia we now have Colonial maintains that separation. So they're keeping that air gap for us. And then, you know, we're doing our own stuff internally. Just make sure we don't get something. But the backups, including our kind of that second step for say something, gets past all of our safeguards. We've got another safeguard in place that >>sounds pretty prudent. So, Chad, is that is that something that you're hearing from a lot of customers? The need for this separation of powers within the system? >>Yeah, it's coming up quite often. And I think one of the big challenges here is to deliver an air gap solution with other types of data protection products. Whether it's on primer in the cloud have a ton of complexity to it, whether you're buying a separate appliance and you have to create a network air gap or whether you're actually replicating from one AWS account into another AWS account, the cost just double. And so what we built in was a system that not only is immutable, but as Brian mentioned, there's no ability to actually delete the data because the timeto live for the data that's persisted is defined by the policy. And so if a bad actor was to get into the environment, there's no way that they could potentially go into our system and actually delete anything. But if you look at like AWS as an example, if most customers they're storing snapshots inside their account as a hole on theirs, vulnerabilities even beyond, you know, ran somewhere and just on accident or a bad actor even inside the environment that's not even ran somewhere. And so protecting that is one of the key capabilities of the platform where We're outside of the service outside of the cloud, in many cases to protect the customer's data on make sure that they can restore it to any account in the event that even a bad actor gets access to it. Yeah. So, Brian, one thing >>that I like to ask customers about, particularly and cloud services is they've changed the way that we do things. And why Why we started using cloud is often not what we're actually using it for today. So with respect to Cuneo and your services that you're running in cloud, what's something that you've noticed that you're now doing? That surprises you? One of those added bonus is that you weren't really expecting. Have you seen anything like that? As you've managed Thio to start using Clooney Oh, that did everything that you wanted it to do. And now you're finding there's these new opportunities. >>Yeah. One of the big advantages of Colombia was when we took snapshots and replicated them out of the source AWS account. It's like in the source account. There was d duplication enabled. Once you replicated to another AWS account, it re hydrates the snapshot. So everyone takes up the full amount of space And to start hitting this like, how much data do I retain versus like, Oh, this is really expensive. I should like, you know, lower my retention. And we just that totally went away with Clooney. Oh, and then as far as the cloud is, the whole what's cool is that they're kind of more past services. So rds where I don't maintain, you know, patches on the O. S or on the sequel or yours, um, application service where you're not maintaining the OS. That's kind of moving at the next level up faras less less that you're maintaining your more maintaining your code in your application, >>right? And how important is the cloud native capability of Columbia? There's plenty of backup solutions around, and we've We've had them for many years because data protection is not a new idea. Ah, lot of a lot of what other side now cloud native. We try to put things into the cloud first. How important is it? Toe have something which understands cloud native >>and it basically means they're totally aware of what we're doing. And so they're not trying to take an old solution and make it fit in the cloud. They built it for the cloud from the ground up. So when you get in there user interface, there's not all of these old buttons and knobs and stuff. It's very simple. It's a policy, a tag. And then inside the account, the tag grabs objects. So they've made a very simple user interface that's saves a lot of time on implementation. >>Excellent. What are some of the things that you're looking to do in the future now that you've better things in and you've now got four months of solid experience with the product? What are you anticipating that you're going to be doing next? >>Um, we're excited about We're starting. But some are customers in a jurors cloud with Clooney was developing capabilities for that, and then Colombia is also working on capabilities for some of our business applications. So the idea of having all of our kind of backups in one place and less separate buckets you've got to go manages exciting. >>Yes, so Chad multi cloud hybrid cloud. Their words sort of called to be the controversy over the over the years. It does certainly sound like a lot of customers they're using, or at least exploring multiple, different options on Certainly for yourselves, you'll have customers who exist in in one cloud and others that will be in a different one. So how are you addressing the idea of of hybrid cloud and multi cloud? >>Great question. So our belief is that data is going to disperse itself Mawr and Mawr, especially as time goes on and there's multiple faces, this kind of cloud adoption that we see we see kind of, you know, the initial lift into Public Cloud, which kind of created that first hybrid example than theirs. You know the optimization within the clouds, so they're looking for cost reduction and operational izing. And then it's kind of like looking at ways of how doe I utilize different clouds for different things that may be mawr operationalized arm or optimized than others. And so we really believe in this world of creating a single platform or fabric that goes and expands across all clouds, consolidates and index and catalog into one view for the end user, and allows them to be able to push data to any cloud that they need to longer term. And at the same time, protect it. The fun part about migrations is yeah, you could move data, but when you're protecting it at the same time to it allows you to actually keep your production up and running, restore a dev environment somewhere else to play around with it and do it in multiple different potential clouds on then have that initial data that's still fully protected in your environment. And so I'd say that the protection side is a really cool on. The second one is Brian mentioned was the whole Data Lake concept that sits behind where we decouple the data from the infrastructure and with past services. This is incredibly important because, let's say, a year and a half from now, the database engines not even supported with the snapshot that you have left over in your account you've been retaining, you've not got to go through the process of upgrading and getting it up to the rev toe actually even get it working in our world, we create logical backups of those data sets, and they're instantaneously available for direct query access, even right in the gooey. And so now this decoupling of infrastructure brings significant value, right now but into the future. This opens up opportunities to be able to do et al pipelines and actually levers the data well beyond back up into other use cases, >>sort of to finish up looking forward. Always, like Thio have a bit of a view of what the future future holds. Its one of my favorite parts of being at reinvent is we get to see the new technology and and what the possibilities are for for what we could use. It takes something, take it home, have a bit of a play with it and and see what we could do for next year. So but if you Brian, we'll start with you. What are you looking forward to in 2021? What do your your future plans? >>Looking forward to migrating mawr of our stuff toe platform as a service offerings where we're taking advantage of the fact that the cloud has built some of the base layers and we could just build on top of that and then the second one that's exciting is the scalability. So with a B, A s, a server lists and the other land and different things that they're running out where we don't need to run physically. See two instances, air always on databases, but things that can scale up and down based on our client workload. That's just exciting as far as our infrastructure and and just the ability for cost savings, but also that just just in time, scaling for our customer demand >>and chad yourselves at Columbia What what can we Can you give us a hint of what we we might see in 2021 from Clooney? Oh, >>yes. So the first thing I'd say that I'm most excited about any New Year is just seeing the advantages customers get with the platform, right? Like we did a lot of innovation during this time. I'd say Cove, it had, you know, some benefits and some downsides from just company growth and, you know, not being close together and having that feeling. But we innovated incredibly quickly, and we were heads down and highly efficient, and eso I'm excited about really showcasing a lot of the innovation that we built during this year, and I think our customers are moving to the cloud faster than ever. And so I'm excited toe to see a lot of that. What you'll see from us is more and more innovation outside of just, you know, the traditional realm. Changing the user experience dramatically with new innovations, which sounds kind of broad. But think of it as creating more and more of that fabric. We're going to get into new public clouds. We're going to get into new SAS services. We're going to expand the user experience in the core platform for recover ability, for security, for enabling easy work flows for various different use cases. And so I'm excited about taking the data and really leveraging it into multiple different use cases outside of data protection on into the future. >>Well, it sounds like we have a lot to look forward to from Cuneo. I I personally look forward to hearing more about it. Hopefully we get to catch up. Ah, little bit earlier, Not not quite. Wait a full 12 months between reinvents, but if not, we'll definitely be seeing you again next year and and hearing about all of the new innovations that you've managed to come up with. You've got 12 months. There's plenty of time. Yeah, definitely Awesome. Sorry. Thank you very much. Brian Brian Kale from Frogs Layer and Pritchard, Kenny from Clooney. Oh, did my guest today. I've been Justin Warren for the Cube and all of our coverage here for AWS reinvent 2020. Do check out all the rest of the videos on. We will see you next time. >>Take care, Yeah.

>> Reporter: From around the globe. It's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020. Special coverage sponsored by AWS global partner network. >> Hello, and welcome to theCUBE virtual and our coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020 and our special coverage of APN partner experience. We are theCUBE virtual and I'm your host, Justin Warren. And today I'm joined by Mike Gilfix who is the Chief Product Officer for IBM Cloud Paks. Mike, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. Now, Cloud Paks is a new thing from IBM. I'm not particularly familiar with it, but it's related to IBM's partnership with AWS. So maybe you could just start us off quickly by explaining what is Cloud Paks and what's your role as Chief Product Officer there? >> Well, Cloud Paks is sort of our next generation platform. What we've been doing is bringing the power of IBM software really across the board and bringing it to a hybrid cloud environment. So making it really easy for our customers to consume it wherever they want, however, they want to choose to do it with a consistent skillset and making it really easy to kind of get those things up and running and deliver value quickly. And this is part of IBM's hybrid approach. So what we've seen is organizations that can leverage the same skillset and, you know basically take those workloads make them run where they need to yields about a two and a half times ROI and Caltech sit at the center of that running on the OpenShift platform. So they get consistent security, skills and powerful software to run their business running everywhere. And we've been partnering with AWS because we want to make sure that those customers that have made that choice, can get access to those capabilities easy and as fast as possible. >> Right. And the Cloud Paks and Built On the Red Hat open. Now, let me get this right. It's the open hybrid cloud platform. So is that OpenShift? >> It is OpenShift, yes. I mean IBM is incredibly committed to open software and OpenShift does provide that common layer. And the reason that's important is you want consistent security. You want to avoid lock-in, right? That gives you a very powerful platform, (indistinct) if you will, they can truly run anywhere with any workload. And we've been working very closely with AWS to make sure that is a premiere first-class experience on AWS. >> Yes so the OpenShift on AWS is relatively new from IBM. So could you explain what is OpenShift on AWS and how does that differ from the OpenShift that people may be already familiar with? Well, the kernel, if you will, is the same it's the same sort of central open source software but in working closely with AWS we're now making those things available as simple services that you can quickly provision and run. And that makes it really easy for people to get started, but again sort of carrying forward that same sort of skill sets. So that's kind of a key way in which we see that you can gain that sort of consistency, you know, no matter where you're running that workload. And we've been investing in that integration working closely with them, Amazon. >> Yeah, and we all know Red Hat's commitment to open source software in the open ecosystems. Red hat is rightly famous for it. And I am old enough to remember when it was a brand new thing, particularly in enterprise to allow open source to come in and have anything to do with workloads. And now it's all the rage and people are running quite critical workloads on it. So what are you seeing in the adoption within the enterprise of open software? >> The adoption is massive. I think, well first let me describe what's driving it. I mean, people want to tap into innovation and the beauty of open source is you're kind of crowdsourcing if you will, this massive community of developers that are creating just an incredible amount of innovation at incredible speed. And it's a great way to ensure that you avoid vendor lock-in. So enterprises of all types are looking to open solutions as a way, both of innovating faster and getting protection. And that commitment, is something certainly Red Hat has tapped into. It's behind the great success of Red Hat. And it's something that frankly is permeating throughout IBM in that we're very committed to driving this sort of open approach. And that means that, you know, we need to ensure that people can get access to the innovation they need, run it where they want and ensure that they feel that they have choice. >> And the choice I think is a key part of it that isn't really coming through in some of the narrative. There's a lot of discussion about how you should actually pick, should you go cloud? I remember when it was either you should stay on-site or should you go to cloud? And we had a long discussion there. Hybrid cloud really does seem to have come of age where it's a realistic kind of compromise is probably the wrong word, but it's a trade off between doing all the one thing or all another. And for most enterprises, that doesn't actually seem to be the choice that's actually viable for them. So hybrid seems like it's actually just the practical approach. Would that be accurate? >> Well our studies have shown that if you look statistically at the set of workload that's moved to cloud, you know something like 20% of workloads have only moved to cloud meaning the other 80% is experiencing barriers to move. And some of those barriers is figuring out what to do with all this data that's sitting on-prem or you know, these applications that have years and years of intelligence baked into them that can not easily be ported. And so organizations are looking at the hybrid approaches because they give them more choice. It helps them deal with fragmentation. Meaning as I move more workload, I have consistent skillset. It helps me extend my existing investments and bring it into the cloud world. And all those things again are done with consistent security. That's really important, right? Organizations need to make sure they're protecting their assets, their data throughout, you know leveraging a consistent platform. So that's really the benefit of the hybrid approach. It essentially is going to enable these organizations to unlock more workload and gain the acceleration and the transformative effect of cloud. And that's why it's becoming a necessity, right? Because they just can't get that 80% to move yet. >> Yeah and I've long said that the cloud is a state of mind rather than a particular location. It's more about an operational model of how you do things. So hearing that we've only got 20% of workloads have moved to this new way of doing things does rather suggest that there's a lot more work to be done. What, for those organizations that are just looking to do this now or they've done a bit of it and they're looking for those next new workloads, where do you see customers struggling the most and where do you think that IBM can help them there? >> Well,(indistinct) where are they struggling the most? First I think skills. I mean, they have to figure out a new set of technologies to go and transition from this old world to the new and at the heart of that is lots of really critical debates. Like how do they modernize the way that they do software delivery for many enterprises, right? Embrace new ways of doing software delivery. How do they deal with the data issues that arise from where the data sits, their obligations for data protection, what happens if the data spans multiple different places but you have to provide high quality performance and security. These are all parts of issues that, you know, span different environments. And so they have to figure out how to manage those kinds of things and make it work in one place. I think the benefit of partnering, you know, with Amazon is, clearly there's a huge customer base that's interested in Amazon. I think the benefit of the IBM partnership is, you know, we can help to go and unlock some of those new workloads and find ways to get that cloud benefit and help to move them to the cloud faster again with that consistency of experience. And that's why I think it's a good match partnership where we're giving more customers choice. We're helping them to unlock innovation substantially faster. >> Right. And so for people who might want to just get started without it, how would they approach this? People might have some experience with AWS, it's almost difficult not to these days, but for those who aren't familiar with the Red Hat on AWS with OpenShift on AWS, how would they get started with you to explore what's possible? >> Well, one of the things that we're offering to our clients is a service that we refer to as IBM garage. It's, you know, an engagement model if you will, within IBM, where we work with our clients and we really help them to do co-creation so help to understand their business problem or, you know, the target state of where they want their IT to get to. And in working with them in co-creation, you know, we help them to affect that transition. Let's say that it's about delivering business applications faster. Let's say it's about modernizing the applications they have or offering new services, new business models, again all in the spirit of co-creation. And we found that to be really popular. It's a great way to get started. We've leveraged design thinking and approach. They can think about the customer experience and their outcome. If they're creating new business processes, new applications, and then really help them to uplift their skills and, you know, get ready to adopt cloud technology and everything that they do. >> It sounds like this is a lot of established workloads that people already have in their organizations. It's already there, it's generating real money. It's not those experimental workloads that we saw early on which was a, well let's try this. Cloud is a fabulous way where we can run some experiments. And if it doesn't work, we just turn it off again. These sound like a lot more workloads are kind of more important to the business. Is that be true? >> Yeah. I think that's true. Now I wouldn't say they're just existing workloads because I think there's lots of new business innovation that many of our, you know, clients want to go and launch. And so this gives them an opportunity to do that new innovation, but not forget the past meaning they can bring it forward and bring it forward into an integrated experience. I mean, that's what everyone demands of a true digital business, right? They expect that your experience is integrated, that it's responsive, that it's targeted and personalized. And the only way to do that is to allow for experimentation that integrates in with the, you know, standard business processes and things that you did before. And so you need to be able to connect those things together seamlessly. >> Right. So it sounds like it's a transition more than creating new thing completely from scratch. It's well, look, we've done a lot of innovation over the past decade or so in cloud, we know what works but we still have workloads that people clearly know and value. How do we put those things together and do it in such a way that we maintain the flexibility to be able to make new changes as we learn new things. >> Yeah, leverage what you've got play to your strengths. I mean that's how you create speed. If you have to reinvent the wheel every time it's going to be a slow roll. >> Yeah and that does seem like an area where an organization probably at this point should be looking to partner with other people who have done the hard yards. They've already figured this out. Well, as you say, why can't we make all of these obvious areas yourself when you're starting from scratch, when there's a wealth of experience out there and particularly this whole ecosystem that exists around the open software? In fact maybe you could tell us a little bit about the ecosystem opportunities that are there because Red Hat has been part of this for a very long time. AWS has a very broad ecosystem as we're all familiar with being here at re:Invent yet again. How does that ecosystem play into what's possible? >> Well, let me explain why I think IBM brings a different dimension to that trio, right? IBM brings deep industry expertise. I mean, we've long worked with all of our clients, our partners on solving some of their biggest business problems and being embedded in the thing that they do. So we have deep knowledge of their enterprise challenges, deep knowledge of their business processes. deep knowledge of their business processes. We are able to bring that industry know how mixed with, you know, Red Hat's approach to an open foundational platform, coupled with, you know, the great infrastructure you can get from Amazon and, you know, that's a great sort of powerful combination that we can bring to each of our clients. And, you know, maybe just to bring it back a little bit to that idea, okay so what's the role in Cloud Paks in that? I mean, Cloud Paks are the kind of software that we've built to enable enterprises to run their essential business processes, right? In the central digital operations that they run everything from security to protecting their data or giving them powerful data tools to implement AI and you know, to implement AI algorithms in the heart of their business or giving them powerful automation capabilities so they can digitize their operations. And also we make sure those things are going to run effectively. It's those kinds of capabilities that we're bringing in the form of Cloud Paks think of that as that substrate that runs a digital business that now can be brought through right? Running on AWS infrastructure through this integration that we've done. >> Right. So basically taking things as a pre-packaged module that we can just grab that module drop it in and start using it rather than having to build it ourselves from scratch. >> That's right. And they can leverage those powerful capabilities and get focused on innovating the things that matter, right? So the huge accelerant to getting business value. >> And it does sound a lot easier than trying to learn how to do the complex sort of deep learning and linear algorithms that they're involved in machine learning. I have looked into it a bit and trying to manage that sort of deep masses. I think I'd much rather just grab one off the shelf plug it in and just use it. >> Yeah. It's also better than writing assembler code which was some of my first programming experiences as well. So I think the software industry has moved on just a little bit since then. (chuckles) >> I think we have is that I do not miss the days of handwriting assembly at all. Sometimes for this (indistinct) reasons. But if we want to get things done, I think I'd much rather work in something a little higher level. (Mike laughing) So thank you very much for joining me. My guest Mike Gilfix there from IBM, sorry, from IBM cloud. And this has been, sorry, go ahead. We'll cut that. Can we cut and reedit this outro? >> Cameraman: Yeah, you guys can or you can just go ahead and just start over again. >> I'll just do, I'll just do the outro. Try it again. >> Cameraman: Yeah, sounds good. >> So thank you so much for my guests there Mike Gilfix, Chief Product Officer for IBM Cloud Paks from IBM. This has been theCUBES coverage of AWS re:Invent 2020 and the APN partner experience. I've been your host, Justin Warren, make sure you come back and join us for more coverage later on.

>> Announcer: From around the globe. It's the cube with coverage of Kubecon and cloud nativecon North America, 2020 virtual brought to you by Red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to theCUBE, >> Coverage of Kubecon cloud nativecon 2020. It's virtual this year, though, theCUBE is virtual. This is theCUBE virtual I'm John Furrier your host. This is the segment where we kind of pre tease out the show for this year. We do a CUBE review and analyze and talk about some of the things we're expecting trends in the marketplace. And I'm pleased to announce a new CUBE co-host with me, Ali Amagasu, who's been part of theCUBE community since 2013, going back to the OpenStack days, which is now different name, but it's private clouds making a come back. But she's part of the cloud community, the cloud Harati, as we say, Ali, welcome to being a CUBE host. >> Thank you so much, John. It's a pleasure, it's been a while since we've hung out, but I do remember pestering you back in those days, and I've certainly stayed with theCUBE ever since then. I mean, you guys are an institution to put it. >> It's been so much fun, I have to say I had less gray hair. I didn't have glasses, I wear contacts. Now I have progressive vision, so I can't wear the contacts. They're hard for me, but it's been such a great evolution. And one of the things that's been really important to our mission has been to be kind of like an upstream project to be kind of open and be part of the community to be on the ground floor. We can't be there this year 'cause of the pandemic, but it's been great and about a few years ago, Stu Miniman and I were seeing that we had a great community of people who wanted a co-host, and we got a great community host model. And thanks for coming on and being part of this mission, it's been important to our mission. We've got Lisa Martin, Rebecca Knight, John Troyer, Keith Townson, Justin Warren, Corey Quinn, to name a few. So welcome to the crew, thanks for coming on. >> Sure I'm happy to step in. >> So I want to go back in time. I mean, when we first met in 2013, you were a part of Metacloud, which got acquired by Cisco at that time, OpenStack was hot, OpenStack was at the cloud. And if you think about where Amazon was at that point and time, it was really the beginning of that sea change of rapid cloud scale, public cloud, specifically OpenStack kind of settled in, and that's kind of making a nice foundation for private cloud right now. It's still out there, telco clouds. You're seeing that trend, but this is the sixth Kubecon we've been there at all of them. We were there at the founding president creation. What an interesting turn of events. The world is kind of spun in the direction of all the conversations we were having back in 2013, 14, 15, 16. Now fast forward Kubernetes is the hottest thing on the planet and cloud native is the construct for all these modern apps, so what's your take on it. What's your view on this? 'Cause you've been riding this wave. >> Well, I think it's interesting. You brought up OpenStack because I remember in those days, OpenStack was smoking hot. And I remember talking to some of the organizers from the foundation, what they said was we want OpenStack to be boring. We want it to be part of the background. We will know we've made it when it's boring. And we could argue that they're there now, right? They aren't what we're talking about as much, but they're still there, they're still doing their thing. They're still growing as far as I know. So that's happened and now Kubernetes is the incredible hotness and it's just exploded. And so it turned from, you know, just a few projects, to now, if you look at the list of projects that are in incubation list of projects that have graduated, it's pretty long, and it's an impressive set of capabilities, when you look. >> It's been really interesting, you know, Dan Collin who's, the Ben was the director of the CNCF. I remember talking to him early on. And when he came, when he joined, he was, he hustled hard. He was smart. And he had a vision to balance the growing ecosystem cause he's done successful startups. So he kind of kind of knows the rocket ship labor, but he basically brought that entrepreneurial startup mentality. And I saw him in China when I was there with Intel with Alibaba conference in the lobby of the hotel, I'm like, dad, what are you doing here? So the CNC, I was already thinking global. They build out the most impressive landscape of vendors to participate in cloud nativecon and Kubecon At the same time, they maintain that end user focused. If you look at Envoy, right, it came from Lyft. So you have this really nice balance. And you know, it was always people chirping and complaining about this, that, and the other thing on the vendor's side. But the end user focus has been such a strong hand for Kubecon and the CNCF. It's just been really impressive and they maintain that. And this is the key. >> And I think what's impressive is that they've evolved. They've continued, they haven't sat there and said, "We've got a couple of fantastic projects," right? They're bringing in new ones all the time. They're staying at the cutting edge. They're looking at serverless and making sure there's projects that are taking care of that. And so I think that's, what's keeping it relevant, is the fact that they're relentlessly evolving. >> Yeah, and we comment, I think two years ago, Stu and I were pontificating about, can they maintain it? And one of the things that we were predicting, I want to get your reaction to this is that as Kubernetes becomes more standard and you're starting to see the tipping point now where it's beyond just testing and deploying in some clusters, you're starting to see Kubernetes native and in part of everything, in part of the future as service meshes and wrap around it and other things, the commercialization, the success of the vendor side is starting to be there. You starting to see real viable companies be started. So do they become end-users or so? So the question was, can it maintain its open source vibe while you have all this commercialization going on? Because that's always the challenge in open source. How do you balance it? What's your reaction to that threat or maybe an opportunity? >> I don't think it's a threat. I think there will always be folks who want to do it themselves. They want to use the vanilla upstream, Kubernetes. They want to build it. They don't want any vendor interference. There's also a very other solid other camp that says, "No, no, we don't want to deal with the updates ourselves. We don't want to deal with the integration with networking and security and all those things." And the vendor takes care of that. So I really think it's just serving two different audiences that as far as I can tell are changing, they're not, I don't see one side growing and one side shrinking. I really see it staying same, pretty stable. And so it's serving both teams. >> Yeah, I totally agree. And this is what's great about evolution. And when you talk about the community gets about the people involved. And I was riffing with someone the other day and were like, "Hey, you know what makes CNCF different?" And we were saying that everyone kind of knows each other. So as you have, you know, the most popular thing at Kubecon is the hallway tracks, right? So hallway tracks are always popular. And just being in the hallways, we call it lobby con and the CUBES on the floor there. So there's a lot of hallway conversations as hallway tracks, there's lightening talks, there's always something exciting, but even though people might move around from company to company for project to project, everyone kind of knows each other. So I think that kind of gives this kind of self governance piece, some legs. >> It does, and you're bringing up something that's really relevant right now 'cause it's virtual this year, right? So we don't get to have those hallway conversations. We don't get to have those, you know, accidental, you know, connections that means so much. I think they did an amazing job, amazing with the European version of Kubecon and you know, they're doing the best they can, I think the attend, I heard the attendance was great. The sessions were incredible from an efficiency standpoint. If you're an attendee, you could hit so many more sessions from home. There was so much to learn, the content was fabulous. The one thing that's missing, and I don't know how they replicate it is that ability to connect with your colleagues in the hallway, the folks you haven't seen'cause they, they moved on, they went to a different company. Maybe they'd been to two or three companies since you saw them last and the one place, you know, you're going to see them is at Kubecon or some of the other conferences you attend. >> Yeah and talking to Priyanka. And some of the co-chairs one of the things that was interesting out of that last conference was you had the virtual theater, but the Slack channel was very engaging. So you had people leaning in on the dialogue and it's interesting. And this is where I want to ask you your thoughts on the top conversations as we prepare. And we start doing the remote interviews, with the leaders of the CNCF, as well as the top end users, as well as vendors and companies, people want to know what's the top conversation that's happening and what are we looking for? So I want to ask you, what are you looking for, Ali? What are the things that you're trying to squint through? What smoke signals you're looking for? What's the trends that you're trying to tease out a coupon this year? >> I'm going to be really interested. You know, I already mentioned it once, but I'm going to be interested to hear how the new serverless projects are going. I know there are a couple in incubation that sounds really interesting. Priyanka brought them up when I've spoken with her. And so I'd love to see if those are getting so traction. What does the momentum around those look like? Is there as much excitement service meshes there was last year. I know there was a lot of discussion about what was happening with search. Most people were really excited. So I want to know what's happening with that. I want to know how new users to the community are dealing with the proliferation of projects. You know, how are they finding out ways to get involved? How are we nurturing new members to the CNCF community and making sure that they aren't overwhelmed, that they find their niche and they're able to contribute to become users, to do whatever their role is meant to be. I think those are the interesting things to me. How about you? >> That's a good question. I mean, I've, there's so many things. I mean, I look at the first of all, the open source projects are phenomenal. And again, talking about the people, I love to see the things that are maturing and getting promoted and what's kind of in sandbox, but I look at the, some of the ecosystem landscape maps with the vendors. And if you look at Amazon, Cisco and the HPE, IBM cloud, red hat, VMware to name a few, and you've got some other companies like Convolt for instance, which is pivoting to a cloud service, Microsoft Palo Alto networks for security Rancho was acquired., you know, a lot of companies are, I think at capital one out there, always in great end. You always great stuff. You got interesting and in Docker, for example, cup Docker containers, we did Docker con this year and I was blown away by the demand, the interest and just the openness of DAPA as they re-pivoted back to their roots. But I'm interested to see how the big cloud vendors are going to play because Google has always been an impressive and dominant partner in KubeCon, Amazon then joined, Azure is in there as well. So you've got those three, the big three in there. So the question is, okay, as this ecosystem is growing, I'm trying to tease out what is this, everything as a service, because one of the things that's coming out on the customer side, if you work backwards from the customer, they're getting kind of the missions from the CEOs and the CIO or CSO saying, "Take everything as a service," which is kind of like, I call it the ivory tower kind of marching orders. And then it gets handed down to the cloud architects and the developers and they go, "What's that? How's that, how does it's kind of hard?" It's not easy, right? So the modern apps is one and then this, everything as a service business model is going to be based upon cloud native. So I think the cloud native, this is the year that cloud native is going to start showing some signs and some visibility into what the metrics are going to be for success around the key projects. And then who can deliver at scale, do everything is a service. So, you know, understanding what that means, what does Kubernetes enable? What are some of the new things? So to me, I'm trying to tease that out because I think that's the next big wave. Everything is a service. And then what that means technically, how do you achieve it? Because when you start rolling out, it's like, okay, what's next? >> Yeah, I wonder who are going to be the new super users that emerged from this, you know, who are going to be the companies that maybe didn't adopt early, they're getting in now and they start running with it and they do incredible new things with it. And the truth is going to your earlier point about whether or not commercializing that, you know, should it be an upstream thing where you're using it vanilla using, you know, pure Kubernetes or using a vendor version? The truth is when you start getting vendors involved and getting super users involved, and these big companies, they can throw 10, 20 people at projects as contributors. You know, I tend to think of open source as being a bunch of small companies, but the truth is it's a lot harder for a small company to dedicate multiple head count to full-time contributions, right? Well big company, you could throw a couple dozen at them and not even blink. And so that's, it's critical to the survival truthfully of the community that we have, these big companies get in there and run with it. >> You know, I was talking to Constance and Steven Augustus, they're both co-chairs of the event and Steven brought up something. That's interesting because it's the theme that's kind of talked about, but no one likes to talk about it because it's kind of important and ugly at the same time. It's security and I think one of the things that I'm looking for this year, Ali is, you know, there's a buzz word out there has been kind of overused, but it's still kind of relevant and it's called shift left. So shift left means how do you build security into the CICB pipeline? So developers don't have to come back and do stuff, right? So it's like baking security in. This is going to be kind of a nuance point because of course everyone wants security, but that's not what application developers think about every day, right? It's like, they're not like security people, right? So, but they got to have security. So I think whoever can crack the code on making security brain dead easy will be great. And how that works together with across multiple vendors. So to me, that's something that I want to understand more. I don't yet have a formed opinion on it, but certainly we're hearing "Shift left" a lot. >> Yes I agree 100% at first we had developers and operators. Then we had devOps. Now I hear sec devOps all the time. You know, that I started hearing that last year and now these poor developers, you know, suddenly they are, whether they want to be, or not, to some degree, they are responsible for their company security, because if they aren't integrating best practices into their code, then they are introducing vulnerabilities. And so it it's just fallen upon them, whether they signed up for it or not, it's fallen upon them. And it'll be real interesting to see how that plays out. >> Well, one of the things I'd love to do is get me, you John, Troy, Keith Townsend, Justin Warren, and certainly Corey Quinn on a podcast or CUBE interview because man, we would have some war stories and have some real good stories to tell the evolution of what's real. And what's not real. Certainly Cory queen allows to talk about kind of like squinting through the hype and calling out kind of what's real, but this is kind of really kind of what's going on with coop comes a lot of exciting things. So I have to ask you over the years within CNCF and cloud nativecon and Kubecon, what are some of your favorite memories or moments that you can share could be personal, could be professional, could be code, could be accompany. What's some of the things that you can share about some, some happy moments for Kubecon >> Sure, sure, I'd say for me, some of the best moments have been the recent pivot toward trying to take care of the attendees. You know, I don't remember if it was San Diego. I think it was San Diego where they brought in all the puppies or mental wellness. And there was a meditation room. I don't know if you went in there, but it was quiet. And there was just some very soft lighting and some quiet music. And I didn't know how much traction that was going to get amongst attendees, that room was packed every time I went in there, dead quiet people relaxing, the puppies were bananas. People were just hoarding around the puppies and wanting to pet them. And I just really liked the way that they had really thought of a bunch of different angles to try to make sure that people who have left their families, they've come to a different place. They're, they're, they're under stress. 'Cause they're probably traveling with their boss and a bunch of their colleagues and they're stressed. And so to make sure that they had a break, I thought that was really somewhere where KubeCon was ahead of a lot of the other conferences I see. And it wasn't a single approach. It wasn't, we're going to throw a bunch of dogs in the hallway. It was, we're going to do that. We're going to have a therapist do a session. We're going to have puzzles in a quiet area at the hallway. It really went all in. And so for me, that was one of my favorite things from recent years. I thought that was fantastic. How about you? >> It's been fun. I mean, it's just so many moments. I mean, I love the European show. We did one year when I first, first time they had rolled out in Europe and I thought that was just so small and intimate. Of course the big mega shows have been great with activity. I think, but one of my favorite moments was I was wandering in the lobby. This was in Europe. It was, and it was a huge EU event, I think 2018 might've been, and I'm kind of buzzing around the lobby and I had nothing to do that night. And it was like five to 11 different parties to go to. People have, you know, dinners. And I ran into one of the CNCF co-hosts and also she's a Google engineer and I'm like, "Hey, what are you guys doing?" I'm like, she's like, "Oh, we're going to the women's happy hour." And I'm like, "Oh, that's cool." I'm like, "It sounds good." And she invited me and I went with her and I was the only guy there, okay. >> Oh lucky you. >> And I looked around and it was packed. And I said to myself, this is freaking amazing. And it was great women, great leaders, smart, super awesome. And they were all welcomed me. I wasn't like being stared at either, by the way. So I'm like, okay, there was no line for the men's room either by the way, just to, you know, and I was like, good tweet there. But I felt really welcomed. And I thought that was very cool. It was packed. And I went back until it's too much. Do you can't believe it was just really awesome. I was in this awesome happy hour. And I remember saying to myself, "This community is inclusive, they're awesome. And it was just one of just a great moment. >> It's great you've got to be the other side of that, right? Because as a woman, I am always on the standard side of it, which has guys everywhere, there's very few women, but here's the thing I have never felt intimidated or uncomfortable in any way at a Kubecon I've always felt welcomed, I've had fabulous interactions. I've met people from around the world. And I try to explain to my kids actually, when we talk and they they'll say something sometime not xenophobic, maybe that's an overstatement, but they're little kids. They don't have a great understanding of the world. And I'll say, "Wait till you grow up and you go to one of these conferences, you'll realize that people from countries that even fear that some of them there's some of the kindest, nicest, most polite people I have ever met. And you walk away really feeling like you want to just throw your arms around everyone, that's been my experience anyway. S0 maybe I've been lucky, but I haven't had that intimidation factor at all. >> You got it, you've got a great mindset and your kids are lucky. And I feel like for me, the moment was the community is very open and inclusive. And I think theCUBE when we interview people, we want people who are smart, you know, and we interview a lot of great women and at KubeCon, it's been fantastic, so that's the highlight. And of course the grueling hours, and then, you know, people like to drink beer in this community. And I like beer, although I'd been trimming down a little bit because, you know, IPA's have been kind of getting heavy on me, but good beer drinkers. They like to have fun and they also work hard and it's a great community, so. >> And now you have to bring your own beer. Now that it's virtual, you have to keep your own IPA. >> Well, the joke was virtual is that we can have a better lunch at home. 'Cause that's always kind of like the event thing. But I think virtuals, I miss the face to face, but we get to talk to more people with remote and they get more traffic on the site, but hopefully when it comes back, it'll be hybrid and we'll still be kind of doing more remote, but more face-to-face. >> So well, and it's more affordable. I did not look at what the pricing is this time, but I know for the European version, the pricing was very fair, certainly more affordable than going in real life. And, you know, for some folks who really can't swing that travel costs and the registration fee, it's a great opportunity to get in on the cheap and suck up a lot of knowledge really quickly. >> Well, Ali, thank you for riffing on Kubecon preview. Thank you very much. And looking forward to hosting with you and thanks for co-hosting on theCUBE, appreciate it. >> Thank you so much, John. I enjoyed it. >> Thank you, okay you're watching theCUBE virtual. This is a Kubecon preview. I'm here with Ali. I'm a goo who's our new CUBE host helping out on the Kubecon looking forward to more interviews, this is the CUBE I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(soft music) >> From around the globe, It's theCube with digital coverage of VeeamON 2020 brought to you by Veeam. Hi buddy. Welcome to the cubes coverage of VeeamON 2020, (laughs) the virtual version of VeeamON. and I'm here with Justin Warren who's the chief analyst and managing director of Pivot Nine. Justin, Good to see you. How are things down under? >> Not too bad. It was a bit of a rough start to the year. But things are looking a little bit better here in the middle of the year. It's tough times. >> And of course Justin, you may, you guys may know, as a many times you post and of course our other almost daily CUBE host these days, Stu Minivan joining us to unpack the Veeam keynotes, the trends in the marketplace. How you doing Stu? >> I'm doing great, Dave. Yeah. As you said, rather than us flying all around the country, we're in doing remote interviews every day, Its different, 2020.(laughs) >> So this has been quite a year, obviously. Because of course it was from Veeam's perspective, started out with that blockbuster exit $5 billion exit to private equity slash VC, insight capital, insight partners which was just an awesome thing for the founders. And some of the employees and actually going forward now, I think the balance of the employees really they'll have an opportunity to grow the valuation of the company even further. I think that's what we've seen with insight. I mean they want exits, so it's like they used to talk about, Ratmir Used to talk about Act Two (laughs) well now we're going to see it play out guys. So just some high level stats, a billion dollars last year in bookings. They're really shifting to an ARR model in a big way, 375,000 customers, 160 countries, 4,200 employees. Justin, do you remember when you first ran into Veeam at like some VMUG somewhere, who are these guys? Wow. They've certainly made it. >> They really have. And it's honest surprising but also not . They've feeling when I first encountered Veeam was that it's like well, who is this people? Yeah. What are they doing? It was very much SMB. It was very much practitioner, a very technical focus and people who used it just loved the product because back then the informal tagline was, it just were. And in those days it really was amazing. That there was a product that was simple and easy to use and worked on it, all of the things that they needed it to do. And I had a very, very VM focused back in that time. Hence the name of the entire company was go Veeam. And to see it grow from that one even then was quite a broad base but a very much an SMB market and see it grow across the entire industry. It's pretty remarkable. There is no really any ... Not many other companies who've pulled off this kind of growth momentum. >> Yeah. I mean Justin I think you nailed it there. I think back it's a company that hasn't stayed at a steady state still though. In the virtualization community, there were ripple effects. When Veeam went beyond just doing VMware and started to do Microsoft. Then a few years ago, I remember after we were doing the Q bed at the show, there was such a real push forward to extend the relationship with Microsoft, to the cloud. One of the things that we think we see loud and clear at this show is that VMware relationship early strong and as VMware goes to various cloud environment, Veeam can go along with that so that the relationship stays strong, but they're also in a lot of the public clouds and expanding beyond what they're doing. Yep. They're moving into the enterprising and I think one of the things we'll dig into is how enterprising is Veeam today. But absolutely it could company that very different than they were two or three years ago. And Dave, as you correctly pointed out now there's not the, who is this weird privately held company? Who's the ownership? I think there's a little bit of a more of a understanding as to, they're a big player in the space. And a little bit more a understanding as to where things go going forward. >> Well, I want to get your take on sort of their, we're going to go through a lot today, but the vision, that Danny Allan laid out in his keynote. And I think it's quite interesting. I mean, given the energy and the VC money coming into the market behind Cohesity and Rubrik the noise that they're making, what he put up as their vision is the most trusted provider of backup solutions, that deliver cloud data management. So as you guys well know, Cohesity and Rubrik really pushing this notion of data management, which means a lot of things to a lot of people. It's interesting to note that Veeam, first of all, new management, new CEO, Danny Allan, and now CTO, and obviously in a strategy role. So he's putting forth this kind of back to basics a mentality but then leapfrogging and trying to leapfrogging the data management narrative into the cloud, bringing cloud into it, super-gluing and cloud and data management which I think is really smart because when you think about multicloud data management for data protection It's got to be about cloud native and it's got to be somebody who's got no agenda around hardware or even necessarily a public cloud agenda. And Veeam wants to the be that Company. What do you think of that messaging Justin? >> I think broadly speaking, I think Veeam can pull it off. I do have some concerns around the whole data management thought. On the first thing of just being able to pull this off across the industry, I think vein is well-placed because it's always been about software. And it's always been about partnership. Though Veeam has been channel , It has been a hundred percent channel back in the day, very, very little direction. If any, at all, they are very strong on partnerships. They will partner with anybody because basically they don't really mind who else you deal with. They just want your backup to be done through Veeam. And the backup is very strong. That is what they are great at. So the risks they may own the data management side is it we've seen this play before pretty much ever backup company at some point just to talk about, Hey, we have a couple of your data. It's kind of sitting there and not really doing anything. What if we would attend this into something else and start using it for other purposes? But it's never really paid off for anybody. No, One's really done anything with their backup data in it in a true sense because we haven't seen anyone else become very good at that and be known throughout the industry of OES. Once you've backed up your data to the scene, you can then do all of these others stuff with it. I can't name anyone who's actually been quite successful at that but I can name plenty of people who've grown. >> Well Commvault is certainly tried actually guys, once you bring up the good competitive slide I want to that's a good lead in Justin. So what this data from our data partner, ETR Enterprise Technology Research, those whose watch our breaking analysis every week you see that we use this data extensively. And basically what we're showing here is the fundamental methodology that ETR uses is this thing called net score, which is kind of like net promoter score. It basically asks customers, are you buying? Are you increasing spending or decreasing spending takes the less subtracted from the more, and then you get a net score. That's the vertical axis. And it's an indicator of spending velocity, the horizontal axis it's labeled market share. It's not like IDC counts market share. It's a measure of mark pervasiveness within the survey. Then it's calculated by the mentions of the vendor divided by the total number of mentions within that sector. Now what we're showing here is a comparison of pure play data protection vendors and you can see there's no Dell EMC there's no IBM because they're not pure plays. I can't cut the data by data protection. So I got put fourth the pure plays. But let's walk through this so you could see here is you've got the pervasive company in the upper left. You can see the net scores and they could see the so the shared ends. This is 1,269 survey respondents. And you can see the shared end is the presence of these companies within that 1269, then CIOs and IT practitioners. So you can see Commvault very high presence but then interestingly and I guess not surprisingly Veeam right there. And then it drops off Veritas, Rubrik and Cohesity, and you can see where the heat map is on the vertical axis Rubrik, One of the highest net score is in the data set, and you've got Cohesity also very high, not as great of a presence in the data set. You can see Veeam very respectable. This was a 15 year old company with a relatively high net score. Really, really respectable, as I say in the solidly in the mid thirties and then Commvault getting into the pink zone and then Veritas in the red zone, low net score. And not as great as you're great at presence, which some concerns there for Veritas. So that's guys, that's the horses on the track. Anything there surprise you? Was it Veritas's position, it doesn't really surprise me, but it is remarkable just how our wife and the rest of the players that they are. And certainly that matches in the conversations the way having here with customers and others in industry. The nine Veritas just does not come out in the way that it used to. It used to be, I would have say that it would be, it used to be neck and neck with Commvault. Now we really don't hear the name Vera Tasman at all. Which is as a long time participant in the industry, Veritas was very much part of my career very early on. They were a stand by name. They were very well respected. But say seeing that sort of thing happened to it a great company, like Veritas it's a bit sad. Really? >> Well, you mean look at you're right. The Veritas was always the gold standard of a company with no hardware agenda. Who's going to be the Veritas of X? You would always use that sort of line or phrase. But now Stu, when I think about the opportunities here, It seems like multicloud is going to within the data protection space, is going to be run by somebody who can do cloud native. So in other words, running cloud native on, Azure, AWS and Google, maybe Alibaba, but cloud native, being able to take advantage of those native services on the cloud. Somebody who's got an on-prem presence who can bring that cloud experience on-prem. Who actually can do it also across clouds, a very, very high performance, low latency, very efficient, low cost. So in thinking about that multi-cloud landscapes, do how do you assess the horses on the track? >> Yeah, well, you know, Dave, first of all, one of the things Justin said, Veeam is partner-driven. One of the conversations I'm having for VeeamON is with the partner Alliance team, they are a hundred percent partner driven. And also for so many years, we talk about one of the negatives about Veeam is, Oh, well, most of their customer base is SMB, well, if you look at the cloud, one of the knocks against cloud for a long time was, Oh, it's just the really small companies that are doing a lot of clouds. Well, my data managers whether I'm a small company or a big company, so a lot of these pieces come together, Veeam has really been able to move into that cloud environment. What they're doing, sans across them . Data protection seems to be one of those areas when you talk about, the mantras, the industry like Amazon and say, okay when are they going to eat your business? Well, you know, Amazon's got a strong storage team. But data protection. They've got some very basic functionality in there but there's a robust ecosystem and companies like Veeam, I can capitalize on. >> Well, you mentioned the there in the enterprise, of course we all know the story of there a couple of years ago, there was a big enterprise, of course, they brought in some executives from VMware, some really high quality folks. They struck relationships with companies like HPE and Cisco. I think HPE in particular is it's paid off quite well but everybody wants to do business with Cisco cause they're very partner friendly and it's interesting. They kind of pull back from that not kind of. They pull back on that major initiative, the high price, direct sales people. And I remember doing a breaking analysis when Veeam got acquired or maybe it was even previous to that and making the comment to that yeah. They had to pull back on that, but I dug into the ETR data. Veeam actually has quite a presence in large companies. Maybe it's division of a large company, or maybe it's shadow IT, I don't know. People who just you don't want the simple backup but they're VMware customers. And it seems to me they really have an opportunity to go up market. Maybe kind of to reset that enterprise strategy. What do you guys think? >> Yeah, I think that's was what they were trying to do a couple of years ago. So I think hotly, they just didn't succeed quickly as they had hoped. There was also a little bit of an issue, which is something I remember speaking to the Retina Mayor about some years ago. About the challenge of being able to serve these different markets, because what SMB wants is quite different to what an enterprise want. And being able to fulfill both of those needs simultaneously from one company it's really challenging because things that you do for enterprise annoy SMB, the things that around ran complexity to be able to deal with the inherently complex environments that are enterprise. SMB just doesn't have that issue. Whereas if you can only do things in SMB type ways that annoys the enterprise, being able to satisfy both of those markets in a way that they both happy with. And so that no one else feels neglected that's pretty much what they wish that were struggling with nothing. So the hot pivot to enterprise they existing customer base, which then was rolling mostly SMB. They started to feel a little bit neglected. No, it was just a bit of a stumble. I think it feels like they've reset now and understood how to do these in a slightly more gentle fashion. But we can call it that. So rather than going for that really aggressive push into enterprise, they are just following the natural momentum, which is people who've come from SMB. And some of those medium companies grow into very large companies and bring them with them and others just that people as they move through their career will grow from a small company to maybe a medium company. And then they'll end up in a division of an enterprise scale and they used to Veeam and they want to bring what they they know in like they want to bring that experience to the company that they now work at. That is a sort of natural flow there I think for them that is only now showing the fruit of what was actually laid down a few years ago. >> Well, and I think there was something else going on there too, which is, we now know the company was positioning for an exit that was up for sale. So enterprise is very expensive, it's time consuming. The ROI is often times very long. That's why you see enterprise startups raising gobs of money and they just ,i think weren't getting the ROI. And when you think about insight, this is one of the more forward thinking, great PE or VC firms they'll live with rule of 40, right, where a rule of 35 or 80 rule of 50, where it's not just about growth, it's about growth plus EBIT. And if you add those up and it adds the 40 or 45 or 35 or whatever their target is, I don't know exactly what Insights looking forward but that's the combination that drives value. So my guess is they wanted to dial up EBIT and give it or the sale. And they might've had specific targets, who knows. That were being negotiated but i think that probably had something to do with it. And as well as you're pointing out, Justin, it takes time but us to If we look into some of the things that we're hearing from the messaging, some of the announcements and we'll get into that. Big, big discussion around digital transformation. One of the first, if not the first to do a backup for office 365, another a new version of Veeam backup for AWS. Oh. So there were some enterprisey types of things that they were there were talking about, a little glimpse at version 11.Any thoughts there, Stu. >> Yeah. Well, David, it's interesting, Justin put up a really good point there when you opt digital transformation Dave. Well, one of the things we've been saying for years, the difference between a company before and after that is you're leveraging the data. So, If I look at Veeam and say, do I protect the data absolutely? Do I secure your data? I'm involved with that. Actually one of the leadership changes, they just hired their first CSO. So bigger push for security, that'll help them a lot in what they do with it, public sector, that's where the CSO actually came from the public by that will help them. But what I didn't, haven't heard as much yet, is okay. I'm a piece of that data. And if you're going to the cloud, I can manage, I can protected and secure it. But how do I help connect people to get more value out of the data and leverage that data? So I think Justin nailed it with that. So many pieces that are important about data that Veeam does do. But that the discussion we always have in AI is be able to take that raw data and converting it into insights and out facts. >> Well, to Justin's point earlier about data management. And I want to to pick up on what you were saying about security, obviously everybody's talking about ransomware, but to me, you're talking about the CSO. The role of the CSO is obviously of course evolving it's Al board level topic. CSO, oftentimes was off as a peer, I say off, but as a peer to the CIO on purpose, they didn't want the CSO to report to the CIO cause it would have been like the Fox watching the hen house. But i think cause it was this sort of failure equals fire mentality and they wanted the truth. But I think now people have transparent discussions at the board about security. Hey, we know we're going to get penetrated. It's all about our response. Obviously we have to deal with the layers, but we're exposed, everybody's exposed. So I think increasingly organizations are realizing that it's a team sport, you've got to get everybody involved, the lines of business, the users being responsible. And of course IT, my point is that security and data protection are now becoming two sides of the same point. Almost like privacy. We've shared that before. So when you think about digital transformation, you think about data protection as part of your security portfolio? Not just something that you bolt on as an afterthought. And I think in many respects, Justin, that's maybe a bigger market opportunity for a lot of these data protection companies and backup companies, than the so-called opaque data management that you're referring to before. >> Yeah. I'd agree with that because what I'm saying from the security side of the market, particularly within large enterprise is a change in mindset from a prevention to a resilient, that kind of mindset around it and how to deal with it. Though previously there was a lot of either we'll just ignore it cause there's not really a problem and it's not going to happen to us. Then it became a kind of a fear response of just, we want to prevent it ever happening to us. Now it's kind of we've gone to an acceptance. And when going through the Kubler Ross. A framework for dealing with grief. People aren't understanding that sooner or later bad things are going to happen to us. What we need to figure out is how we deal with it when it does. And that's the mindset that you need to have when you're talking about data protection. So it's the same kind of mindset that you need for security. And now people are starting to look at, okay, how do we firstly detect if we've actually got a problem, if there's a breach or if there's a risk, how do we notice that we know that that's happening? And then once we noticed that, what do we do about it? So that's things like catching it early so that when you you'll recovery is small, which is the same general idea around software development of fail fast. You want to just pick the failures early so that you can correct them all. Basically if you find yourself in a hole stop digging and then once you've figured that out, okay now how do we recover from this in a way that is minimally disruptive to the business. And that could be like recovering from ransomware, having grilly solid backup. So you can restore weekly, that's the best protection against ransomware that you can have. Then you can start trying to figure out, okay, we know we can recover if it happens to us now let's just try to reduce the number of times that this does actually happen. That's the general idea that I'm seeing come through. More often with CSOs, with CIOs and with board level conversation. >> I want to come back to Justin and then Stu with your final thoughts. Justin, what do you take on this Veeam universal license? Was this a case of, hey we had so much complexity across our portfolio like that you're going to the Italian restaurant, you're just here you want everything in the menu or there's too much to figure out just the order for me. And they're trying to clean that up or do you see this as sort of a more innovative licensing approach? That's more cloud friendly. What do you make of that? >> I think it's a bit of both. think it's part of VeeamON thoughts as well again, from back in the very early parts of the company, the idea was that it just works. It should be simple and easy to use. So it's completely on brand for Veeam to have a simple and easy to use licensing model. There's a lot of criticism from enterprise and particularly from medium and small business, well overly complicated licensing models. We see people wrestling daily with the billing system within AWS. We see people frustrated with the licensing approach of Oracle. We see them seemingly frustrated when you not figuring out exactly what have I lost since then, what happened and what am I not licensed for in, Microsoft ecosystem. So for them to have a simple and easy to use licensing approach, it just fits right in with the rest of what the company is doing. It does also simplify the way that they organize and operate their company, as they have to deal with lots and lots of different partners, having a complicated licensing system on top of all of those other complicated licensing systems would just make their own job much, much harder. So this way it actually works for them as well as for their customers. >> Yeah. Simplicity is the watch word there Stu and I get, I mean, I get the sense in speaking to the customers, partners, that Veeam well has basically has the philosophy make it easy to and we'll sell more. We're not going to try to micromanage, to maximize revenue. You heard this certainly from some of their big partners who said that Veeam made it transparent. Our sales people for commissions and their salespeople and really make it easy to do business with. So Stu I'll give you the last word here. >> Yeah. So I think, as you mentioned, Veeam also listening and seeing what their partners are doing. So we've watched companies like AWS, trying to make a little bit simpler as to if I'm choosing compute, I don't have to be locked into one model a aisle, pay those across the environment or pure storage and other partner of Veeams. If I stay a customer, I make it easy to be able to move from one generation the next though, that cloud like model absolutely is what we expect. And when you talk to customers today, we know the only constant is change. I actually loved in the keynote. There was a I believe it was Satya Nadella that they quoted and said that, we've seen more change in the last two months that we normally would see in a decade. So Veeam being agile, moving, listening to their customers, learning with their partners and making sure that they've got things in the modern consumption model. >> Well, guys, thanks for helping us break down the VeeamON 2020, some of the trends in the market place.Some of the commentary and the keynote. Justin Warren Stu Minivan. Appreciate your time. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks Dave. >> I thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for Stu and Justin and the entire cube team, people right there. We'll be back with our coverage of VeeamON 2020, right after this short break. (soft music)

>>From around the globe. It's the queue with digital coverage of Docker con live 2020 brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >>Okay, everyone. Welcome back. We're in between segments, we just had Sydney from engine on Jenny, Peter. We're getting down to the last stretch. So our last little segment, before we go to the full wrap up where Jenny, you're going to give away the awards, Peter going to give it away. The awards for the captains, the community. How are you guys feeling? >>Right? Um, I'm feeling great. Peter, how about you? >>Awesome. It's been, it's been fun. Well, Peter, your internet celebrity. Now I hear, I don't know. Is there a special tweet we want to show? I think so. Okay. You see that tweet? It says you're internet famous. Your mom and dad are watching your presentation. Jenny, can you read that? Yeah. >>Yeah. And to be fair, right? They didn't tweet it. They, uh, they watched either session and, and joined and typed in the comments, even though, uh, they had to ask if he was speaking English. Cause they didn't understand anything. He was saying. >>I saw in the chat, I saw my dad's name go by and just, >>I feed her, but wait a minute. And then my wife >>Came in later, said, yeah, your mom and dad are watching your talk. Do we, do we ever stop parenting? >>I don't. Well, I had the opposite effect. I was in one of the sessions and I see a great comment. I'm like, who wrote this? It's my son, Alec farrier, like son, get out of the chat. He said, it's a dope. He said, it's a dope session. It could have been worse. Went in totally random. So it was good. Just look at it, which everywhere the cube and dr. Khan, what a great, uh, no boundaries, age geography has been. I'm really blown away guys. I really gotta say I'm super impressed with the community content program you put together. It's been so much fun. I learned so much. And so appreciate it. Thank you. >>Oh, thank you. I have to agree. Uh, Amanda silver said earlier that coding is the, and you know, Docker con is a team sport too. Uh, I have to take some time to think all the people, uh, that have participated in helped make this event so great. And we'll definitely do it again as we give out the community awards at the end. Okay. I guess 40 minutes from now, but thank you to the doctor theme. Um, many of them have been awakened for hours and hours, hours helping engage and have a great time. Thank you. Okay. Okay. An awesome platform. Rocks scheduling is next level. Um, and the captains, right? I don't know if anyone's had the chance that's watching to go check out the captain stream, especially Brett Fisher. Who's been on all day and he's been so involved in helping us plan to make sure that this is a conversation and not a large webinar. Right. Um, and then our sponsors, we could not have done this without our sponsors. They've been delivering great talks. They're all on demand, uh, except for the one coming up. So make sure to catch those. They'll have giveaways as well, um, that you can, that you can join into two more speakers. You've done awesome, uh, content and production. And then of course the thoughtfulness of the community, right. Thank you for bringing it here today, around the world. >>That's awesome. And I always just say the content presentations were really, really good. The graphics there's templates, but the work that was put into the video and the demos really just next level, as you said. So really just great. I mean, that makes the conference is the presentation. So those talks were engaging. Um, the comments were awesome. Again, I learned a ton and I love love when it's dynamic like that. Uh, Peter, you gotta be psyched developer relations, any, any new insights on the, uh, from the devs? >>Oh, it was great. Great talks. A lot of great. And I was really, really surprised with the chat that the interaction was tremendous. Uh, and I can't believe I used tremendous, but we'll just skip that anyways. Um, but also check out, uh, hashtag Docker con jobs. If you're looking for a job or if you have openings, please, please, uh, hashtag that in your, in your tweets, um, want to help the community out as much as possible. There's a ton of work out there. Just gotta help connect everybody and love to be part of that for sure. >>Yeah. Just so you know, in case you missed the Justin Warren who was live said on live cube, Docker TV, that if he gets 500 upvotes on Linux for Docker, desktop, I think it was. Or was it hub? Might've been desktop. I think he'll triage it out. So there it is. >>All right. I hope the internet heard that cause that's a popular one for sure. Yeah. >>He was on the record and he leaned in on that too. He said it like that. So he meant cool. Any other, uh, shout outs? I mean, I thought Brad was great. Um, the, his, uh, posse, uh, captains were amazing. Um, good feedback there. So gruesome some great chit chatter on that. Um, I didn't have a chance to peek into the session because we're hosting these mainstreams, but yeah. What are you hearing on the captains? >>Uh, tons of knowledge being dropped on that channel for sure. And really great in depth conversations there, uh, answering questions, interacting with the audience. Uh, and you know, a lot of these captains are teachers, uh, as their, as their day job. And a lot of them have, uh, fabulous Docker and Kubernetes content and are running sales right now. So if you do want learn more, if you like, what you heard today, definitely check out right? The horses are on sale this week or under $10, a huge investment in your future. And then Manning books is also running a promotion, a DTW Docker 20 for 40% off their content and a dr. Popkin Elton Stoneman, Jeff Nicola they'll have content there as well. And then Nigel, uh, is, is, has a number of training, uh, courses and, and books as well to check out. Um, and then the captains are running a charity stream. Awesome. People have been donating all day. It's been awesome. Uh, Docker's going to make sure that we reach our $10,000 goal. They wanted to announce that as well. >>I noticed cockroach labs had a similar thing for women for coding. They had another kind of virtual bag swipe. So check them out. They're donating cash as well to women who code. Okay. >>Right. >>Which is very cool. Um, anything else that we missed? Swag giveaways? >>I have one little, um, little comment, a little secret. So I don't know if anybody's caught it yet, Jenny, but if you go back and watch the, the, uh, you know, with Scott, there might be a surprise in there and anybody that finds it first and tweets me might have something for you. >>So Easter egg in there. Is there something going on there? >>I went on, I don't know. I'm just, just saying, >>Okay. All right. Check out the keynote. That was a pro tip right there for everyone's watching. So if you're watching this stream right now, as we get into our awesome next segment, which is going to be really one of my favorites, the children's cancer Institute, this was not only a moving segment from an impact standpoint, but talking about the people that interns and young developers really solving a big problem with Docker, this is a really high impact statement. So that segment, so, so watch it guys. Thanks so much. We'll see. On the wrap up after this next segment, of course, does the catalog of content in the schedule when it's not streaming, it becomes a catalog. So if you're watching it, check out all the sessions, we'll see you in the wrap up.

>>long from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin at AWS Reinvent 19. This is Day three of the Cubes coverage. We have two sets here. Lots of cute content are joined by Justin Warren, the founder and chief analyst at Pivot nine. Justin. How's it going? Great, right? You still have a voice? Three days? >>Just barely. I've been I've been trying to take care of it. >>Impressed. And you probably have talked to at least half of the 65,000 attendees. >>I'm trying to talk to as many as I can. >>Well, we're gonna talk to another guy here. Joining us from data ICU is well, Novak, the solutions architect will be the Cube. >>Thanks for having me. >>You have a good voice too. After a three day is that you >>have been doing the best I can. >>Yeah, he's good. So did ICU. Interesting name. Let's start off by sharing with our audience. Who did a coup is and what you guys do in technology. >>Yes. So the Entomology of date ICU. It's like hi cooze for data. So we say we take your data and, you know, we make poetry out of it. Make your data so beautiful. Wow, Now, But for those who are unaware Day like it was an enterprise data science platform. Eso we provide a collaborative environment for we say coders and clickers kind of business analyst and native data scientists to make use of organizations, data bill reports and Bill productive machine learning base models and deploy them. >>I'm only the guy's been around around for eight years. Eight years. Okay, >>so start up. Still >>mourning the cloud, the opportunity there That data is no longer a liability. It's an asset or should be. >>So we've been server based from the start, which is one of our differentiators. And so by that we see ourselves as a collaborative platform. Users access it through a Web browser, log into a shared space and share code, can share visual recipes, as we call them to prepare data. >>Okay, so what customers using the platform to do with machine learning is pretty hot at the moment. I think it might be nearing the peak of the life cycle pretty hot. Yeah, what a customer is actually actually doing on the platform, >>you know, So we really focus on enabling the enterprise. So, for example, G has been a customer for some time now, and Sergey is a great prototypical example on that. They have many disparate use cases, like simple things like doing customer segmentation for, you know, marketing campaigns but also stuff like Coyote predicted maintenance. So use cases kind of run the gamut, and so did ICU. Based on open source, we're enabling all of G's users to come into a centralized platform, access their data manipulated for whatever purposes. Maybe >>nobody talked about marketing campaigns for a second. I'm wondering. Are, is their integration with serum technologies? Or how would a customer like wanting to understand customer segmentation or had a segment it for marketing campaign? How would they work in conjunction with a serum and data ICU, for example? >>It's a great question. So again, us being a platform way sit on a single server, something like an Amazon ec2 instance, and then we make connections into an organization's data sources. So if using something like Salesforce weaken seamlessly, pull in data from Salesforce Yuka manipulated in date ICU, but the same time. Maybe also have some excel file someone you know me. I can bring that into my data to work environment. And I also have a red shift data table. All those things would come into the same environment. I can visualize. I can analyze, and I can prepare the data. I see. >>So you tell you it's based on open source? I'm a longtime fan of over. It's always been involved in it for longer than I care to remember. Actually, that's an interesting way t base your product on that. So maybe talk us through how you how you came to found the company based on basic an open source. What? What led to that choice? What? What was that decision based on? >>Yeah, for sure. So you talked about how you know the hype cycle? A. I saw how hot is a I and so I think again, our founders astutely recognize that this is a very fast moving place to be. And so I'm kind of betting on one particular technology can be risky. So instead, by being a platform, we say, like sequel has been the data transformation language do jour for many days now. So, of course, that you can easily write Sequel and a lot of our visual data Transformations are based on the sequel language, but also something like Python again. It's like the language de jour for machine law machine learning model building right now, so you can easily code in python. Maintain your python libraries in date, ICU And so by leveraging open source, we figured we're making our clients more future proof as long as they're staying in date ICU. But using data ICU to leverage the best in breed and open source, they'll always be kind of where they want to be in the technological landscape by supposed to locked into some tech that is now out of date. >>What's been the appetite for making data beautiful for a legacy enterprise, like a G E that's been around for a very long time versus a more modern either. Born in the Cloud er's our CEO says, reborn in the cloud. What are some of the differences but also similarities that you see in terms of we have to be able to use emerging tech. Otherwise someone's gonna come in behind us and replace us. >>Yeah, I mean, I think it's complicated in that there's still a lot of value to be had in someone says, like a bar chart you can rely on right, So it's maybe not sexy. But having good reporting and analytics is something that both you know, 200 year old enterprise organizations and data native organizations startups needs. At the same time, building predicted machine learning models and deploying those is rest a p i n points that developers can use in your organization to provide a data driven product for your consumers. Like that's amore advanced use case that everyone kind of wants to be a part of again data. Who's a nice tool, which says Maybe you don't have developers who are very fluent in turning out flashed applications. We could give you a place to build a predictive model and deploy that predictive model, saving you time to write all that code on the back end. >>One of the themes of the show has been transformation, so it sounds like data ICU would be It's something that you can dip your toes in and start to get used to using. Even if you're not particularly familiar with Time machine learning model a model building. >>Yeah, that's exactly right. So a big part of our product and encourage watchers to go try it out themselves and go to our website. Download a free version pretrial, but is enablement. So if you're the most sophisticated applied math PhD there is, like, Who's a great environment for you to Code and Bill predictive models. If you never built the machine learning model before you can use data ICU to run visual machine learning recipes, we call them, and also we give you documentation, which is, Hey, this is a random forest model. What is a random forest model? We'll tell you a little bit about it. And that's another thing that some of these enterprises have really appreciated about date I could. It is helping up skill there user base >>in terms of that transformation theme that Justin just mention which we're hearing a lot about, not visit this show. It's a big thing, but we hear it all the time, right? But in terms of customers transformation, journey, whatever you wanna call it, cloud is gonna be an essential enabler of being able to really love it value from a I. So I'm just wondering from a strategic positioning standpoint. Is did ICU positioned as a facilitator or as fuel for a cloud transformation that on enterprise would undergo >>again? Yes, great point. So for us, I can't take the credit. This credit goes to our founders, but we've thought from the start the clouds and exciting proposition Not everyone is. They're still in 2019. Most people, if not all of them, want to get there. Also, people want too many of our clients want the multi cloud on a day. Like who says, If you want to be on prim, if you want to be in a single cloud subscription. If you want to be multi cloud again as a platform, we're just gonna give you connection to your underlying infrastructure. You could use the infrastructure that you like and just use our front end to help your analyst get value. They can. I >>think I think a lot of vendors across the entire ecosystem around to say the customer choice is really important, and the customers, particularly enterprise customers, want to be able to have lots of different options, and not all of them will be ready to go completely. All in on cloud today. They made it may take them years, possibly decades, to get there. So having that choice is like it's something that it would work with you today and we'll work with you tomorrow, depending on what choices you make. >>It's exactly right. Another thing we've seen a lot of to that day, like who helps with and whether it's like you or other tools. Like, of course, you want best in breed, but you also want particularly for a large enterprise. You don't want people operating kind of in a wild West, particularly in like the ML data science space. So you know we integrate with Jupiter notebooks, but some of our clients come to us initially. Just have I won't say rogues that has a negative connotation. But maybe I will say Road road data Scientists are just tapping into some day the store. They're using Jupiter notebooks to build a predictive model, but then to actually production allies that to get sustainable value out of it like it's to one off and so having a centralized platform like date ICU, where you can say this is where we're going to use our central model depository, that something where businesses like they can sleep easier at night because they know where is my ML development happening? It's happening in one ecosystem. What tools that happening with, well, best in breed of open source. So again, you kind of get best of both worlds like they like you. >>It sounds like it's more about the operations of machine learning. It is really, really important rather than just. It's the pure technology. Yes, that's important as well, and you need to have the data Sinus to build it, but having something that allows you to operationalize it so that you can just bake it into what we do every day as a business. >>Yeah, I think in a conference like this all about tech, it's easy to forget what we firmly believe, which is a I and maybe tech. More broadly, it's still human problems at the core, right? Once you get the tech right, the code runs corrected. The code is written correctly. Therefore, like human interactions, project management model deployment in an organization. These are really hard, human centered problems, but so having tech that enables that human centric collaboration helps with that, we find >>Let's talk about some of the things that we can't ever go to an event and not talk about. Nut is respected data quality, reliability and security. Understood? I could facilitate those three cornerstones. >>Yeah, sure. So, again, viewers, I would encourage you to check out the date. ICU has some nice visual indications of data quality. So an analyst or data scientists and come in very easily understand, you know, is this quality to conform to the standards that my organization has set and what I mean by standards that could be configured. Right? So does this column have the appropriate schema? Does it have the appropriate carnality? These are things that an individual might decide to use on then for security. So Data has its own security mechanisms. However, we also to this point about incorporating best Retek. We'll work with whatever underlying security mechanisms organizations organizations have in place. So, for instance, if you're using a W s, you have, I am rolls to manage your security. Did ICU comport those that apply those to the date ICU environment or using something like on prime miss, uh, duke waken you something like Kerberos has the technology to again manage access to resources. So we're taking the best in breed that this organization already has invested time, energy and resources into and saying We're not trying to compete with them but rather were trying to enable organizations to use these technologies efficiently. >>Yeah, I like that consistency of customer choice. We spoke about that just before. I'm seeing that here with their choices around. Well, if you're on this particular platform will integrate with whatever the tools are there. People underestimate how important that is for enterprises, that it has to be ahead. Virginia's environment, playing well with others is actually quite important. >>Yeah, I don't know that point. Like the combination of heterogeneity but also uniformity. It's a hard balance to strike, and I think it's really important, giving someone a unified environment but still choice. At the same time. A good restaurant or something like you won't be able to pick your dish, but you want to know that the entire quality is high. And so having that consistent ecosystem, I think, really helps >>what are, in your opinion, some of the next industries that you see there really right to start Really leveraging machine learning to transfer You mentioned g e a very old legacy business. If we think of you know what happened with the ride hailing industry uber, for example, or fitness with Saletan or pinchers with visible Serge, what do you think is the next industry? That's like you guys taking advantage of machine learning will completely transform this and our lives. >>I mean, the easy answer that I'll give because it's easy to say it's gonna transform. But hard to operationalize is health care, right? So there is structured data, but the data quality is so desperate and had a row genius s, I think you know, if organizations in a lot of this again it's a human centered problem. If people could decide on data standards and also data privacy is, of course, a huge issue. We talked about data security internally, but also as a customer. What day to do I want you know, this hospital, this health care provider, to have access to that human issues we have to result but conditional on that being resolved that staring out a way to anonymous eyes data and respect data privacy but have consistent data structure. And we could say, Hey, let's really set these a I M L models loose and figure out things like personalized medicine which were starting to get to. But I feel like there's still a lot of room to go. That >>sounds like it's exciting time to be in machine learning. People should definitely check out products such as Dead Rock you and see what happens. >>Last question for you is so much news has come out in the last three days. It's mind boggling sum of the takeaways, that of some of the things that you've heard from Andy Jassy to border This'll Morning. >>Yeah, I think a big thing for me, which was something for me before this week. But it's always nice to hear an Amazon reassures the concept of white box. Aye, aye. We've been talking about that a date ICU for some time, but everyone wants performance A. I R ml solutions, but increasing. There's a really appetite publicly for interpret ability, and so you have to be responsible. You have to have interpret belay I and so it's nice to hear a leader like Amazon echo that day like you. That's something we've been talking about since our start. >>A little bit validating them for data ICU, for sure, for sure. Well, thank you for joining. Just to be on the kid, the suffering. And we appreciate it. Appreciate it. All right. For my co host, Justin Warren, I'm Lisa Martin and your work to the Cube from Vegas. It's AWS reinvent 19.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel along with its eco-system partners. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent '19. This is our third day in Vegas. That's a lot of Vegas. I am joined by my co-host Justin Warren, the founder and chief analyst at PivotNine, and Justin and I are welcoming back one of our CUBE alum. Joining us next from MongoDB is Sahir Azam, its chief product officer. Welcome back! >> Thank you so much, I'm happy to be here. >> So talk to us about what's going on at MongoDB, I know we've had you on the program before, we've had MongoDB, but what's sort of the latest and greatest? >> Yeah, so we're continuing to grow very fast, and especially our cloud product Atlas. We've got two million developers using the platform today, 13,000 customers, many of which are on the amazing AWS platform, and I think people are really embracing the idea of a multicloud database service and a data platform they can have the flexibility to work with no matter where they are. >> Talk about, sorry, Justin, about multicloud a little bit more because it is a symptom as one of our CEOs, Dave Vellante, calls it. A lot of companies have inherited it, it's more by whether it's organically, or it's by acquisition, or developer preference. It's a state in which a lot of businesses are operating, but it's challenging. >> Yes. >> What are some of the things that you're hearing with respect to customers? How can you help them deal better in that world? >> Sure. So, yeah we definitely see some of those exact trends, so, you know for large enterprises, many times, they have different use cases in different business units, where developers or application owners prefer different cloud providers. Oftentimes it's acquisition, but also at a strategic level, at the CTO, CIO, or even CEO level, you know, there is a forethought strategy that it's going to be a multicloud platform world, and now what we see is many customers are still very much focused on a single cloud provider to build-up the skills on, but with a close eye to a second or third tier provider in the architecture that they will scale and balance over time. So, I think it's early days, but the trend is definitely rising in what we're seeing. Now, one of the things that makes a multicloud strategy really hard to implement is the data. You know, especially transactional data that runs live applications that are serving real customers, that makes an application and a development team really stuck on a certain platform. So, what we're focused on at MongoDB is really de-coupling that data layer from the underlying cloud infrastructure providers such that if you want to leverage the benefits of the different services AWS has in their rich ecosystem, but then maybe plumb in something from another provider, we make that extremely easy to do with the click of a button, and move your data across those cloud providers. >> Yeah, so talk about the mechanism for doing that a little bit more, because that's really tricky to do, and that's one thing I think people have been concerned about the idea of multicloud, is that, well, are you actually running in multiple clouds simultaneously, or is it more that, well actually sometimes we just want to move a bit from here to there that we'll use for different applications? >> There's sort of three trends that we see you know, and we're a data platform player, so our use cases are sort of bounded around database technology, data analytics. So, the first is for customers who want high availability across multiple regions within a certain geography, so let's say you're dealing with personal information of German citizens in Germany, Amazon has a region in Germany, only one, and maybe you want Azure or GCP to be a second region for high availability, and you need to rely on a secondary provider, because there's only one from a particular cloud of choice in that geo, so that's sort of one high availability kind of use case. The second is leveraging the benefits of all these different services that the cloud providers themselves are releasing, so we hear a lot of customers that say, you know, Amazon's my preferred partner for operationalizing my app. We use their services, our database runs there, however, we may want to take some of that data, even if it's for a week, even for a few days, a month, and perhaps move it over to another provider to leverage some new analytic service or machine learning, or AI algorithm that they might have. Today, that's really challenging to do. It's the idea that you can click a button, and create that replica, and move that data over very easily is something that people are asking from us. And then the third is geographic reach. So, our database platform, Atlas runs in 70 global regions worldwide, across AWS, Azure, and GCP which makes it the most widely available databases service on the planet. And one of the interesting use cases for that is, let's say somebody is using a single cloud provider for 99% of their work load, but suddenly they see their app take off in Taiwan, you know, maybe another cloud provider has a region in Taiwan, just mix and match and add that region into the architecture very seamlessly. So, those kind of three categories, high availability within geos, the ability to leverage, you know, the rich service offerings and mix and match, and then the geographic reach, are the three things we see for multi plat at a strategic level, beyond the reactive angle of acquiring a company and learning how to have to manage multiple clouds that way. >> That does sound like it's a bit of a trend that we're hearing and particularly today, I think, Lisa, where enterprises want choice, and that customer choice, of being able to choose things that actually suit me, rather than necessarily which vendor I'm buying my infrastructure from. That sounds like something that we're hearing a lot. >> Yeah, and we've invested a lot of time, engineering effort, working with Amazon, working with Google, working with Microsoft, to unify that data layer across the three cloud providers, and I think that's something unique that Mongo's really focused on. >> But there were so many announcements that came out, in Andy Jassy's keynote a couple of days ago. I think I read 23 announcements just in the first 20 minutes, or something of his keynote. So much information, but I'm curious, did anything that they announced surprise you in terms of, hey, customers are living in this multicloud world, there's use cases, there's reasons for it? Any shift that Amazon is making or announced this week that you thought, yes, some of these things are becoming a reality? We have to go where the data is, and we have to deliver what's best for our customers. >> I mean, I think Amazon is a very customer-centric company. I don't think I heard any announcement that particularly acknowledged the fact that it's going to be a multicloud world, you know, I think they're still the market share leader, they have a rich set of offerings, and they're going to continue building on that which I think makes a lot of sense from the position that they're in. I think some of the announcements that are interesting to us, definitely the idea of having lower cost, higher performance ARM hardware and chips for our database vendor. If we can lower the price performance curve for customers on top of that infrastructure, that's exciting for us, and we always think it's interesting, in a AWS keynote that's two or three hours long that about a third or half of it is talk about data. We love data, so the more rich sets of services we can surround and integrate Mongo into, the better, so, exciting for us. >> Data seems to be like the next generation of cloud, data can become a huge asset for any business in any industry, whereas, there are companies and times where data was a risk, a vunerability. What is a great example, in your opinion, of a MongoDB customer who has done a great job of transforming to where data is now a huge asset, and a driver of business differentiation? >> So, one interesting customer example I really like is Axiom. They're a marketing data provider, data has been the heart of their business for a long time, but traditionally their business would be packaging up and shipping data sets to their end customers, in a very custom bespoke manner. What we worked with them on is leveraging our cloud platform Atlas, along with some API technologies that we have, and a product called Stitch, to make it very easy for them to create custom APIs to allow their end customers to access that data programmatically. And since we manage and run that on their behalf, their development team, their operations team don't have to worry about the plumbing and managing of all these API layers and all that, they just stamp out these custom APIs, we auto-scale them on top of the rich Mongo database on the back end, and so we've allowed them to really take the data business they were in, but really modernize it by exposing it directly to developers programmatically instead of just shipping data around which is expensive and cumbersome. So I think that's a really interesting example of a data company transforming itself, and kind of innovating in the cloud with some of the technologies we provide, obviously, on top of the Amazon platform. >> So, you mentioned transforming, that's definitely been a theme of the show. So MongoDB is a different way of actually managing data, so compared to traditional methods. A lot of enterprises still have a lot of investment in RDBMSs, more traditional kind of databases. What are you seeing when customers come to MongoDB and start using this different way of storing and managing data? What is that transition for them like? >> Sure, so I think the thing that MongoDB's inception 11 years ago through now, what drives our adoption, I should say, is really the fact that developers love our platform. The document model, the MongoDB API is just a much more flexible and natural way for developers to think about writing applications, so, you know, you're building an application, you might be managing a customer object, a product, an account. These are all sort of business objects that get represented in a developer's mind and then in an application, but then if you put that in a relational database, you're chopping that up into rows and tables, and then having to rejoin that back together just to make sense of the underlying information you're trying to represent. Mongo gets rid of all of that cognitive dissonance, and that's what really unlocks that developer productivity. Now, the interesting thing about MongoDB is as a non-relational database, we have looked at the legacy RDBMS providers and said, what are the things that are really strong about those platforms that we can bring forth and apply to this much more agile and natural data model? So things like data governance and schema, strong transactional guarantees, enterprise management functionality, enterprise security and encryption at a very deep level. These are things that large mission critical application developers and operators really need. And they don't typically find them in fast databases, scalable databases, like MongoDB. So what we've done is really merge the best of the legacy traditional databases, the things people expect in a rock-solid mission critical database, but brought it forward in a model that's much faster for developers to move quickly on, and so the way that represents itself in our business, roughly about a third of our business any given quarter, tends to come from legacy migrations off of some traditional relational database, and the driver for that is modernization. People want to move those apps to the cloud, they don't just want to lift and shift from one relational database to another necessarily, that might have certain cost benefits from one provider to another, but it doesn't unlock that developer agility, and that's why they're choosing MongoDB. >> So all in the spirit of transformation, the ability for MongoDB to unlock the developer productivity, one of the things Andy Jassy talked about on Tuesday was, one of the four essential pillars of transformation. It's got to come from the top down, it's got to come from that senior executive level, they've got to drive it down aggressively. As chief product officer, where are your conversations? Are you still, in terms of feedback and, you know, customer advisory information, are you still talking mostly to the developer folks who were the primary users, or are you also having those higher level-- >> Sahir: Both. >> Both, tell us a little bit about that. >> Now what's interesting about a data technology like Mongo is, it's not a top down sort of sell. No CIO, CTO, line-of-business executive is going to dictate down to their developers, thou shalt use this particular database technology, or what not. Every development team is going to choose a technology that allows them to move fast and meets their requirements. So, what we've really done is we've focused on engaging with our customers, our sales organization, our marketing organization, our developer relations organization, is merging a strategic top-down sort of model with those CIOs and business leaders about how MongoDB can transform their business as a data platform. Get that sponsorship, get that executive alignment, to be a strategic provider, but then at the same time, really fostering that community that MongoDB's always been known for bottoms up to make sure that more and more of these applications see the power and value of MongoDB. So we have to merge both those motions. If we were just bottoms up, then I think we wouldn't be as strategic as we are in many of these organizations in terms of how transformative as a vendor and a technology provider and partner we are. But at the same time, if we lost our roots with the developers, databases don't get chosen from the top down, they get introduced and put on the list, maybe, and sponsored into the account, but we've got to build and earn that trust with developers directly. >> Yeah, so you've had incredible success, incredible growth so far. >> Sahir: Thank you. >> What's next for Mongo? >> So, I think a big part of our journey for the last three or four years has been really, adding a second major growth engine to the company by building out our cloud business. So that was our MongoDB Atlas platform built on top of AWS, Azure, and GCP, and that is the fastest growing part of our business, and will clearly be, you know, the majority of our business in the future. The next year to two years, is really about transitioning from a single data product company to a data platform company. So earlier this year, we announced not just the core foundational database features we're always building on top of, but also a big step into analytics, with our Atlas Data Lake product, which allows development teams and analysts to run queries using the Mongo query language they love, but on top of S3, where they have mountains and mountains of data stored from all these different sources. And at the same time we've also added things like full text indexing, so instead of standing up a, search cluster next to your Mongo database, having to worry about copying data just to get full text search in your application, we merge that capability directly into the Atlas platform. So, a big part of our journey is saying, once we have so many customers on the platform, how can we add more value, and yet still merge that all in a very expressive developer experience with our query language? So they're not dealing with 13 different databases and four copies of their data and integrating and shuttling that all around, but is a very prescriptive experience for them. >> Wow, Sahir, thank you for sharing all the innovations that are going on at MongoDB with Justin and me on the program today. A lot going on. >> Yeah, thank you for having me. I really enjoyed the show and coming on theCUBE. >> Lisa: Good, we appreciate your time. >> Great. >> For my co-host Justin Warren, I'm Lisa Martin, and you've been watching theCUBE from Vegas, baby. AWS re:Invent '19. Thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>>LA Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and don't along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 19 from Las Vegas. This is our third day of covering the event. Lots of conversations, two cube sets, as John would say, a Canon of cube content. Lisa Martin here with my esteemed colleague Justin. Um, and Justin, I have a couple of guests joining us. We've got to my left jus bhandarkar had a product for FreshWorks inc and Broughton Sahar VP and GM of machine learning services from Amazon. Gentlemen, welcome to the cube. You still have voices, which is very impressive after three days. A lot of practice it does or hiding out in quiet areas. Right? So Tay, Jess FreshWorks inc I souping on the website. Justin and I were talking before we went live, you guys have 150,000 of businesses using your technologies. I hadn't heard of FreshWorks, but it looks like it's about customer relationship management and customer experience. Tell our audience a little bit about what FreshWorks is and the technologies that you deliver. >>Okay. So we were founded in, uh, back in 2010. We were born in the cloud in the AWS cloud. Uh, and we started off as a, uh, customer support, uh, application. And we have grown on to now deliver a suite of customer engagement applications that include marketing and automation capabilities, CRM, uh, customer support and customer success. And so what we really are looking after is, is to deliver a value across the entire customer journey. Uh, you know, >>so there's been some big legacy CRMs around for a long time. What was the market opportunity back in 2010? The FreshWorks folks saw there's a gap here. We need to fill it. >>Yeah. We, well, we, uh, like any other startup, we decided to focus in one place and our focus, uh, was really around SMBs. We felt like SMBs were underserved and, uh, we felt like as rich as the technology is and the experiences have become, uh, we felt like we needed to democratize access to that. And because SMBs tended to have fewer resources and maybe, uh, in some cases weren't as tech savvy. Uh, we felt like they were kind of getting left behind. And so we wanted to step in there and make them whole and kind of offer them the same set of richness that you would expect, you know, for a large enterprise customer to have. And for that actually working in conjunction with AWS has been super important for us cause we have really been able to deliver on that promise. >>Maybe you can tell us a bit about the relationship between yourselves and FreshWorks. I believe the fresh works is built completely on AWS and always has been. >>Yeah. So how did that relationship begin and how has that grown as, as FreshWorks has grown into, into this massive company that you've become? >>Yeah, so, um, FreshWorks got off on AWS and then when we launched Sage maker and as you know, we have 700 tens of thousands of customers today doing the machine learning on AWS and on Sage maker. What customers have seen is that they get significant benefits in terms of features and developer productivity. And lower cost of ownership and FreshWorks saw that they could reduce that time to getting the models out by an order of magnitude. And their house was saying for example, that they used to take couple of days to get the models out to production. And by using Sage maker they were able to get it down to a couple of hours. And we have seen this happen with many other customers into it. For example, got down from six months to about a week. And just because of the productivity, performance and cost benefits that Sage makeup provides, you have seen the house FreshWorks and then many other companies, many of the customers more to AWS for the machine learning. >>Are they what are you using this machine learning to do? So you have all of these different models and we were talking a little bit before we went live about how you, how you use different models for different customers. But what are those models actually used to do? What service do they provide? >>Okay. So as you know, we have a set of these applications which are built around functional use cases. And so if you take a given customer, they might have multiple products from us and they might be doing multiple different use cases on us. And so you can quickly think of this as being, you know, maybe three to five specific use cases that require, you know, machine learning, you know, assistance. Uh, and so as a result, as we scale this up to the our entire, uh, set of customers, we now literally have thousands and thousands of these ML models that we have built, addressed, uh, geared to, uh, addressing specific pain points of that particular customer. Right? So it's all about catering the ML model for a specific use in a specific context. And then it's not only just about building it, uh, which, you know, obviously Sage Merker does a great job of helping us do that, but it's also about maintaining it over time and making sure that it stays relevant and fresh and so on. >>And again, working with AWS has been instrumental in for us to kind of stay ahead of that curve and make sure that we're continuing to drive accuracy and scale and simplicity into, uh, into, you know, into those particular use cases for customers. Then, you know, we released many features this year that makes this important. So one of the things that we have as part of Sage maker studio is a Sage make a model monitor that automatically monitors predictions and allows a customer to say, when are those predictions not being of the appropriate quality? And then we can send an allowance. So we are really building Sage maker out as a machine learning platform that they get all of the undifferentiated heavy lifting so that customers can really focus on what they need to do to build a model, train the model, and deploy the model. >>So in terms of your users, you mentioned too just the, the, the gap in the market back in 2010 was the small, the SMB space that probably something like a Salesforce or an Oracle was possibly too complex for an SMB. But now we're talking about emerging technologies, machine learning, AI. What is the appetite for the smaller, are you dealing with, I guess my question is a lot of SMBs that are born in the cloud companies, so smaller and more agile and more willing to understand and embrace technology versus legacy SMBs that might be, I don't want to say technology averse but not born within it. >>Yeah. So, so we, uh, we run through the entire gamut. So we obviously have, uh, you know, Silicon Valley based startups. We have more traditional companies around travel and hospitality and real estate and other, other verticals. Uh, and what we have really, really seen the commonality has been is that, uh, as good as the technology has become for AI and ML, uh, there is still some disparity in how people are able to consume it. Right. And if you have a lot of resources, a lot of skilled engineers, it is very easy for you to do that, thanks to all of the capabilities that are delivered by AWS. But in the other cases, uh, they do require more handholding specifically for those use cases that really impact them. Like how do I reduce my churn amongst customers? How do I maximize the chances of closing a deal? How do I make sure that the marketing campaign I run delivers on all of the, the objectives that I have? Right? So all of those things they re they need help. And so we are in there to kind of simplify that for them and leveraging all of the underlying technologies from AWS. We're able to deliver that together >>and going in from the beginning all in on AWS when AWS was only about four years old or so, right? Back in 2010. Um, talk to me about the opportunities that that is opened up for FreshWorks to evolve, you know, offer a suite of different solutions. Talk to us about Amazon and AWS is evolution and how quickly that they're evolving and developing new products and services as like fuel for FreshWorks business. >>Yeah. So really the big focus that we have always had is to deliver the right experiences that really impact end users. For those particular functional use cases around marketing, sales support and customer success, right? So as part of that, while we are focusing on on that experience, we also need to be focusing on delivering all of these services at scale, right? And with all the right security built in and all the right, uh, other, you know, tool set that that's built in. And so, so the synergy that we have found with between us and AWS is that we're able to rely on all of the right things for AWS to deliver upon. So they are also all about offering simple API APIs about making things scalable right from the get go about being extremely cost effective about uh, continuing to drive innovation. And these are all the things that drive us as well for our customers. And so it's been a very complimentary partnership from that respect is, you know, we kind of like go on this journey together and in our customer obsession is a key leadership principle. And so everything we do at AWS is really working back from the customer and making sure that we are really addressing all of the pain points. And making them successful? >>Well, because customer experience is a D it can be a deal breaker for companies, right? You think of you have a problem with your ISP and you call in or you go through social media or um, a chat bot and you can't get that problem resolved. As a consumer, you have so much choice to go to another vendor who might be able to better meet your needs or have the use the data to make sure they already know what's the problem. It's the same thing in the CRM space, right? If businesses don't have the right technologies to use the data to really know their customers, this customer's churn. And so it's really, we see CX as a driving force in any industry that if you can't get that right, customers are going to go, I'm going to go somewhere else because I have that choice. >>Yes. I mean customer expectations that you said have risen customer inpatients with bad experiences gone down. And one of the things that we have really focused on is as we go through this entire journey, we collect the data of that customer's journey. And we learn from it and we're able to visualize that for the sales person or the tech support person who's actually working with that customer. So they can actually see the journey of that customer. They visited the pricing page a couple of times, maybe they're interested to make a purchase or they visited the cancellation policy page. Okay, maybe I need to do something about that. Right. And so that is really been instrumental kind of in success success. And you know, what we are doing at AWS and Sage maker is making sure that all our customers get access to this technology. And that is where we start with how do we make machine learning accessible to all developers so that all of the experiences that we have gained at Amazon from investing in machine learning for the last 20 years, we take all of those learnings and make it available to our customers so they can apply machine learning for transforming their businesses. >>Yup. >>And that's exactly what it can be as transformational. Well gentlemen, thank you very much for joining Justin and me on the program talking to us about FreshWorks. What you guys are doing with Amazon and the opportunity to really dial up that CX experience with machine learning. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you. Thank you very much. >>All right. For my car is Justin Warren. I'm Lisa Martin and your Archie, the cube from AWS. Reinvent 19 from Vegas. Thanks.