>> Live from Seattle, Washington, it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon, North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the cloud native computing foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage day three here, theCUBE covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2018 in Seattle. I'm John Furrier, with Stu Miniman, and Justin Warren here to break down the action. Justin Warren, as you know, is Guest Analyst for us at many events, Chief Analyst at PivotNine, coming all back over here again, to break it down. So we're going to dissect what's going on here at KubeCon, CloudNativeCon. This is, some say, me, the last stand to stop Amazon. Justin, good to see you. >> Good to see you as well, man. Stu, my first question is, as the show winds down, day three, a lot of people have left, all the big execs are gone, it's kind of last day, people coming together, party was last night, so we kind of see all the action, we kind of fished this pond dry, in theCUBE here, the last couple of days. The themes are starting to emerge. What are you seeing, what's your thoughts? >> Yeah, I mean, first of all, John, 8,000 people, this is, you know, geeks that are really excited, and I mean that in the best of ways, of course. There's actually, there were people here before the show started, doing lightning talks and full day sessions. Tomorrow, there's an operative session that another 250 or 300 people will be doing Friday, so, you know, and people want to just suck the marrow out of the bone that is everything going on here, just get every ounce of knowledge here, and they are deep into this session, so, this is a great community. The question I want to ask you guys is you were at Amazon re:Invent two weeks ago. We've watched that show. I want the compare and contrast of this ecosystem and show, not just compare it to like, say, open stack, which we've been teasing apart all week, and I think there are some things we need to worry about, but a lot of good differences. But compare against the big one in the room, which is Amazon, and a big difference is Amazon is here, and they have a seat at the table, because they have to, and customers will force them there, but you know, should this worry Amazon, and how does this ecosystem compare with the Amazon ecosystem. The big thing for me is, I understand how people make money in the ecosystem of Amazon. I'm still trying to figure that out here. >> Yeah, eh, it is a different ecosystem. It does have a bit of a vibe of it could be the new re:Invent. We've had conversations over the last couple of days about-- >> Or is this the independent cloud, >> Exactly. >> You know, open ecosystem. >> It is the independent show that we've been waiting for, that we've wanted since COMDEX and Interop kind of went away, and it's all been vendor shows, and now we have an independent show where all the vendors can come and have kind of a neutral meeting place, and we can all gather together and have some common ground, which is like, that's what Kubernetes is. I've been saying over the last couple of days, Kubernetes is like the ethernet of cloud, so it's something which is an agreed standard and we can all collaborate on, and then, you never bet against ethernet. So know you can build all these other things on top of that platform, yeah. >> Just a quick note on that, right, that's Interop, and networking was at the core of that. It was basically everybody, oh, it's the chance of if we give true interoperability, maybe we can do multi-vendor and it won't all be Cisco, who dominated that market. Amazon's the same. >> Stu, this is to me, ethernet's a great example. I say TCPIP as well. Both are enabling technologies that are standardized, or actually started as de facto standards. They weren't necessarily bona fide standards. They emerged when people rallied around them. Those de facto standards, emerge and become a catalyst point for people to build on top of and around. Remember, there's still a lower level below the stack on ethernet. So you had, you know, physical data link layer in the OSI model, the grandfather of all stacks. That really changed, I think, 20 years of growth and innovation. I think Kubernetes is, exactly right, Justin, it's exactly your point. I see that as well, that it's not so much Kubernetes is going to be the be all end all. It's what it enables, and I think the innovations on top of Kubernetes, and underneath Kubernetes, take the holy trinity, I've been saying this on theCUBE now for the past year, the holy trinity of infrastructure and IT is storage compute networking, and those things are now being repurposed in a way that is highly scalable, dynamic, and resourceful for a lot of things. AI is a great example, everyone talks about AI, but storage policy, the knobs in Kubernetes can manage, and Google saying the guys of Kubernetes. That's one of the most underutilized aspects of Kubernetes, is the networking guys managing the knobs from below, and then app guys with servers messing maybe on the top. This is just an absolute growth engine, and the comparison to Amazon is similar, because Andy Jassy talks about builders, the right tool for the job. This is essentially the same mantra. I mean, this is tools, platforms. >> It's very similar, but with one very important difference, and around the money side of things. You don't have this massive behemoth which is going to come in, and one year you're on the keynote, and the next year we just announced a product, which completely killed your business. It's open source. That's not really going to happen. So you've got that common core of things, where there's no real competitive advantage on this stuff. So that's, you know, Linux, where's the competitive advantage on a kernel? There isn't one. So open source makes great sense for that kind of core of things that you then build upon, and then all the money is in all the innovation, all the value add that goes on top of that, and that makes a huge amount of sense to have an open source show for that. >> And I think, Stu, one of the things that we always talk about, networking in cloud, I think the concept of cloud is going to be old hat. You heard it here first on theCUBE. Because cloud is Amazon, cloud is a set of resources. When we start thinking about IoT at the edge, when you talk about moving compute to the edge, you're going to start to see mesh networks, peer to peer, and add a new kind of platform configurations that isn't necessarily cloud. It's a new thing. It's a platform, open platform, and there's going to be some incentives that are going to be designed for startups, that's economically beneficial to the new kinds of things, versus the economic incentives that Amazon might not have, to do things. So I think we're going to see emergence of new stuff. I would still say that cloud is a state of mind, it's not a location. And we here, it's CloudNativeCon. It's not just KubeCon. It's about doing things in a cloud native way, and that, like you say, it doesn't matter where it is or how it communicates together, but it's the way you operate it, it's the way it actually works in practice. It's not so much of, oh, we're going to build it here and we're going to put it in that cloud, or that cloud, or that cloud. >> And I think we've had some real clarity as to what that future of multi cloud looks like, 'cause it's not one massive cloud everywhere, it's not, oh, my applications spanning all over the place. It's we're working to solve that really tough problem of distributed architectures, and giving us ways that I shouldn't have to think about where I am spinning that up, or if I need to change vendor, not necessarily portability, you still do have some lock in, because Kubernetes is not the full stack, it's a piece of the overall platform, and while there's 75 different versions here that are all compliant, I should be able to move between them, but the devil's in the details, and there's lots of stuff that goes on top. >> Let's talk about multi cloud for a second. 'Cause you mentioned COMDEX, you talked about ethernet. At that time, during those big revolutions, the word multi-vendor was a big buzz word. Multi-vendor was like the basis of COMDEX. We all got to play together. Multi-vendor meant choice. Today, multi cloud is just a modern version of multi-vendor. >> Exactly, it's multi-vendor, and that's what enterprises want. Enterprises are a bit wary now. We hear lots of conversation about lock in, and that comes up a lot, and it's a real thing. Enterprises are concerned, they don't want to bet on one company, and then find out that actually, it's technology, it changes, things need to be moved around. We don't want to wake up in five, six years, and then suddenly find, oh my god, I can't change anything because I'm locked into this one vendor. >> So, Justin, they say they want multi-vendor. When it came to networking, I spent years working on interoperability, and plug tests, and all these things, and at the end of the day, it was way better to get my standards plus with a single vendor than it was to try to loop them together, and then, oh, when I changed something, so hopefully the difference here is actually, we have loosely coupled services, we have APIs, so can we actually do multi-vendor, multi-cloud that doesn't stress out my team, and have, every time I want to make a change, or they make a change, it moves. The new cloud world should be, things change, you know, it changes upstream, and downstream, I get to use them. So, once again, we talk about the shiny nirvana of, oh, you know, it's serverless, and the old trinity of computer storage. I don't even need to worry about that, 'cause it'll just work, but wait, if something goes wrong, I've been talking to a bunch of vendors here, that actually, how do I get observability, and manageability, to be able to drill down, because things could still go wrong. >> Well, you heard Bloomberg, we had an end user come on, it's a very interesting point, and Dan Khan, from the executive director, well, Bloomberg's kind of a different case, but look at what Bloomberg does. The guy said to us, "I actually don't want to buy "these products and services. "I just want to pay them money "to be available to support me "when I need support." 'Cause Bloomberg has fully integrated all their support internally. I think that's a trend that we're going to see in the enterprise, where CIOs start building teams, real software chops. It might not be as big as Bloomberg, but the notion of, we're going to run our own stuff. We'll use management services where appropriate, but we're going to have a core software build strategy, and I can't wait. An SLA of four hour response time. I need like, minutes. >> And that's how, I think, where we don't have the answers yet. There are still a lot of questions that enterprises are trying to work out about how do I actually do that. So you mentioned Bloomberg, and I interviewed them a few months ago, wrote something in Forbes about them. They are a special case in that they have chosen that we're going to invest in this technology so that we have people on staff, in our company, who understand Kubernetes. Now, that's not a choice that every enterprise is going to make, but they decided that actually, this technology, this software is so important to our business, to where we get all the value for our business that we need to invest in that technology. And I think a lot of enterprises are realizing that, actually, outsourcing everything to one vendor, and then giving all of your innovation engine to someone else, and they're realizing that was a mistake. Now, they're trying to figure out, okay, what do we bring in house, what do we do ourselves, what do we get vendors to do, which technologies do we use for what particular value creation, and that complexity, that decision making process, that's what we haven't quite worked out yet, and that's where I think there's a lot of value in the ecosystem, with service providers who can provide advice on here is how you should do it, based on what you need to do. >> That's a great point. Stu, I want you to comment on that. Let's refine this for a second, 'cause the people who actually spend the money, or the people re-imagining IT infrastructure, IT applications. The CIO, I've interviewed the VP of Advanced Technology at Proctor and Gamble, and he told me, when he came in, he came from Coca Cola, he's been an old IT guy, he says, look, we outsourced everything to the point where we're anemic. We got a couple of storage guys, they're pushing buttons, they're jumping on, calling the vendors, they outsource everything. He says they had no ability to create a competitive advantage for the business, and what they moved quickly to was to bring talent in to be builders, to be in house. So now you have that trend happening in the modern CIO, CXO kind of roles. Now you have to say, okay, I got teams here. How do I get the investments deployed, how do I go to this ecosystem here with all these tools, all these capabilities, how do I invest, how do I build out. >> Look, I think Kelsey Hightower had a great point when we interviewed him this week. It is a huge opportunity for managed services, because like we talked about, the Amazon, or even the ecosystem, how do I keep up with all of this, and the answer is, you don't. You need to be able to have people, whether it's system integrators, or partners that are going to help that. You know, look, Amazon gets criticized for not being deeper in open source. Well, they use a lot of open source and they deliver those services, and they make it easy. Frictionless is something we talked about for many years as being the thing. The enterprise wants to be able to spend money and just go do it, because they don't have a team to pitch these. Even somebody like Bloomberg, or some of these really big companies I love, talking, you've got Apple, and Nordstrom, and some really interesting, oh, by the way, and they're all hiring. Whether or not they're actually using Kubernetes, they cannot confirm or deny, but you know, we know how that goes. >> Hold on, first, let's unpack the end user piece here, okay? Amazon is pushing 5,000 reference-able customers. Okay, it's not about the Amazon question. End users here, how many reference-able customers are here? What are they actually, Uber's here, they're hiring. They might have some Kubernetes stuff in the background. Sure, they probably do. But actually, what does the end user adoption really look like? I mean... >> It's still early, but again, a difference between this show and Amazon re:Invent. How many end customers have a booth at re:Invent? Compared to here, where we have people, end customers who are here mostly to try to hire talent. They have booths. >> Kudos to the CNCF. They've got 80 end users participating. There are a lot of users here. This is not the vendor fest that we see at some shows when they get big. I hear they're not seeking the vendors. The vendors that I talked to were happy because they are the users here, and they're excited. Before we go, John, there's a couple kinks in the armors and things we need to worry about. The two, if I look at service meshes, and I look at serverless as a huge threat. One of the things I wanted to look at coming in was I'd heard a lot of talk about Knative, and I think Knative is great, but it is not, you know, Lambda is the defacto standard, just like S3 was before. Lambda is this, and Knative has absolutely nothing to do with Lambda and does not connect with it. It is the difference between serverless and functions, and so, all the AWS functions and all the Azure functions have nothing to do with Knative. For the people that looked at OpenWhisk and all these other options, Knative seems a good way to pull, they've done a re-spin of what's happening there, and it's moving things down the line. Once again, as Kelsey said, if we look at serverless as a spectrum, which many of the hardcore serverless people will debate and argue, and be like, that's not real, serverless, well, just like we said, there is only one real cloud, and it was Amazon. We know that's not the case. It will be a spectrum, we want to meet customers where they are. So, Knative, good news, but the elephant in the room is that AWS and Azure are where all of the serverless really happens, and therefore, there is a big air gap between them. Justin, service mesh is something I know you've been looking at. Give it to us the good, bad, and the ugly. >> Service mesh is really, really early. So, we're at that part where there's a diversity of innovation going on. There's about 12, or at least 12 different companies here at the show, who are all doing something with service mesh. They're all trying to sell you a different solution. This is what happens with technology. A new technology gets created, and we have this flurry of all these startups, who are all trying different things. And this is the destructive force of capitalism. Not all of them are going to succeed, but we have to have them all out there in the market, because at the moment, it's too early to figure out, okay, well, it's definitely going to be that one. If we knew that one, then I'd be putting all of my money behind that one company today. >> Last year, Justin, all the talk was about SDO. I've heard a lot of talk about SDO, but it hasn't all been good. >> No, that's the thing. So we've had a year now, and last year was definitely, hey, SDO is like, the service mesh. Like, not so much. Envoy seems to be the common ground that people are actively using. That's what most people are building on top of. So it looks like Envoy's going to be that underlayer of everything else. But in terms of how you actually use service mesh, it's still very early, and people are trying to figure out how to do I use this quite complex technology in practice? And as people use it more, as we get more adoption, then we'll start to see that one or two of the methods and the approaches will win out over all of the others, and that's where we can expect to see, well, I have an anointed winner. That will then win out, because it's useful, because it's functional, because end users want to do it that way. >> And Envoy, by the way, had traction. They had a sold out EnvoyCon. On the first day, 350 people, Lyft is driving that, and they're just heads down, solving problems. I think that seems to be the formula for some of the successful products, where you take away all the window dressing and the hype. It comes down to who's solving what problems. >> And that's the thing with open source. You can't just throw a whole bunch of marketing dollars at it to make it succeed. If end users don't like the code, and they don't use it, then it won't work. >> John, I want you to give us the word on the open source business model. We watched in the last year, Red Hat bought CoreOS for 250 million, then they were acquired by IBM for 34 billion, pending final, and all that stuff and everything, and then, reading through the VMware, SCC filing $550 million for Heptio. You know, big, big dollars, so, is open source just getting a lot of customers, and they get acquired by the big guys? What's the take? >> I think it's interesting. First of all, Red Hat might not like what I'm about to say, but I'll just say it. I think there was a steal with CoreOS. If you look at what Heptio got for valuation, CoreOS was an absolute steal. The team was phenomenal, they were doing some amazing work. At that time of the acquisition, the debate of how to make money dominated versus just getting behind the technology, and I think CoreOS was a fantastic team, and they had the right tracking. You can see what's happening now with now part of the Red Hat. So, Red Hat got a massive lift on that, so I think, kudos to Red Hat for taking that up the table at that time. Great acquisition, I think that helped them propel, and now show that to IBM that there's real value there. Now, I think open source as a business model is interesting because it's changing, right? You now have a new generation of builders and developers coming in. Open source has to evolve, and I think the CNCF I think is a cutting edge experiment or Petri dish of how to stay true to open source principles, and still nurture and enable a downstream impact for the commercialization. I think it's an opportunity, but it's also one of their biggest challenges, because if this is COMDEX, COMDEX is an open source. It's hawking wares, right? So it's a different business model. So, this is going to be a very interesting test in the industry to see how the current open source momentum, which is looking really strong right now, how that can interplay with commercialization, because certainly, the money's there, the value's there, and if we can get these value spots identified, the white spaces for startups, and let the big guys also play as well, it's going to be a very interesting landscape, it's certainly dynamic. I don't have the answers, but my gut's telling me that a whole new level of sets of services and platforms are going to be composed around these services, and I think it's all going to be driven by open source, that's clear. How it shapes out, valuations and the talent buys, the momentum, market buy, we'll be watching, I don't know. >> Yeah, it's exciting times. We're here at the beginnings of what I hope is going to be this massive new ecosystem, and we get to watch it grow, we get to watch it change. It's a great place to be. >> All I can say, Stu, is I wish I was 25 years old again, right now, because for young entrepreneurs, and young tech folks, this is probably one of the most exciting times, because you have real computer science, and dormant computer science, now re-energized with cloud computing scale. It's just like-- >> John, they don't appreciate what they had, you know. They don't know what it was like to have a computer that wasn't actually connected to things, let alone what we had. >> I used to build my own graphics libraries, I used to walk to school in bare feet in the snow. It's so hard. It's so easy now. >> Creating ones and zeroes-- >> Where's my token ring? >> Creating ones and zeroes by banging rocks together. >> It's so easy now. You guys got it made. You have no idea. Great stuff, Stu, this is great analysis, and I think, again, KubeCon is the beginning, with Cloud Native, this is just a small signal, I think. I think there's going to be a COMDEX moment soon, unless this thing just blows up, which I don't think is going to happen. >> I mean, look, last thing, John, I want to big thank to the Linux Foundation, CNCF, for working with us. We've been neighbors in the early days, great partnership, this community. They've got a great media section. All of friends over here, that are creating a lot of con, working really hard. The amount of work that goes through, and as we had the people from CNCF talking. They've got a core team, but it's people that volunteer, and we were a community too, and all our sponsors, John. >> Yeah, thanks to the community, and again, one more final point is that, this market, Justin, as you know, we all cover it, is in a learning mode. There's a lot of education oriented stuff that people are interested in. You've got Alex Williams over at New Stack, DevOps.com, TFiR over there, everyone's up in media out there. There is a thirst for content, there's a thirst for community learning. The sessions are packed. I mean, the hallways are interesting. You see people huddling, and I overhear the conversations. They're not talking about what party to go to, they're talking about how to implement a Kubernetes cluster, so this, really people working on and off the court here, so to speak. So, it's been great coverage. So, day three, breaking it down. I'm John Furrier, Justin Warren, Stu Miniman, back with more coverage, day three, after the short break. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel along with its eco-system partners. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent '19. This is our third day in Vegas. That's a lot of Vegas. I am joined by my co-host Justin Warren, the founder and chief analyst at PivotNine, and Justin and I are welcoming back one of our CUBE alum. Joining us next from MongoDB is Sahir Azam, its chief product officer. Welcome back! >> Thank you so much, I'm happy to be here. >> So talk to us about what's going on at MongoDB, I know we've had you on the program before, we've had MongoDB, but what's sort of the latest and greatest? >> Yeah, so we're continuing to grow very fast, and especially our cloud product Atlas. We've got two million developers using the platform today, 13,000 customers, many of which are on the amazing AWS platform, and I think people are really embracing the idea of a multicloud database service and a data platform they can have the flexibility to work with no matter where they are. >> Talk about, sorry, Justin, about multicloud a little bit more because it is a symptom as one of our CEOs, Dave Vellante, calls it. A lot of companies have inherited it, it's more by whether it's organically, or it's by acquisition, or developer preference. It's a state in which a lot of businesses are operating, but it's challenging. >> Yes. >> What are some of the things that you're hearing with respect to customers? How can you help them deal better in that world? >> Sure. So, yeah we definitely see some of those exact trends, so, you know for large enterprises, many times, they have different use cases in different business units, where developers or application owners prefer different cloud providers. Oftentimes it's acquisition, but also at a strategic level, at the CTO, CIO, or even CEO level, you know, there is a forethought strategy that it's going to be a multicloud platform world, and now what we see is many customers are still very much focused on a single cloud provider to build-up the skills on, but with a close eye to a second or third tier provider in the architecture that they will scale and balance over time. So, I think it's early days, but the trend is definitely rising in what we're seeing. Now, one of the things that makes a multicloud strategy really hard to implement is the data. You know, especially transactional data that runs live applications that are serving real customers, that makes an application and a development team really stuck on a certain platform. So, what we're focused on at MongoDB is really de-coupling that data layer from the underlying cloud infrastructure providers such that if you want to leverage the benefits of the different services AWS has in their rich ecosystem, but then maybe plumb in something from another provider, we make that extremely easy to do with the click of a button, and move your data across those cloud providers. >> Yeah, so talk about the mechanism for doing that a little bit more, because that's really tricky to do, and that's one thing I think people have been concerned about the idea of multicloud, is that, well, are you actually running in multiple clouds simultaneously, or is it more that, well actually sometimes we just want to move a bit from here to there that we'll use for different applications? >> There's sort of three trends that we see you know, and we're a data platform player, so our use cases are sort of bounded around database technology, data analytics. So, the first is for customers who want high availability across multiple regions within a certain geography, so let's say you're dealing with personal information of German citizens in Germany, Amazon has a region in Germany, only one, and maybe you want Azure or GCP to be a second region for high availability, and you need to rely on a secondary provider, because there's only one from a particular cloud of choice in that geo, so that's sort of one high availability kind of use case. The second is leveraging the benefits of all these different services that the cloud providers themselves are releasing, so we hear a lot of customers that say, you know, Amazon's my preferred partner for operationalizing my app. We use their services, our database runs there, however, we may want to take some of that data, even if it's for a week, even for a few days, a month, and perhaps move it over to another provider to leverage some new analytic service or machine learning, or AI algorithm that they might have. Today, that's really challenging to do. It's the idea that you can click a button, and create that replica, and move that data over very easily is something that people are asking from us. And then the third is geographic reach. So, our database platform, Atlas runs in 70 global regions worldwide, across AWS, Azure, and GCP which makes it the most widely available databases service on the planet. And one of the interesting use cases for that is, let's say somebody is using a single cloud provider for 99% of their work load, but suddenly they see their app take off in Taiwan, you know, maybe another cloud provider has a region in Taiwan, just mix and match and add that region into the architecture very seamlessly. So, those kind of three categories, high availability within geos, the ability to leverage, you know, the rich service offerings and mix and match, and then the geographic reach, are the three things we see for multi plat at a strategic level, beyond the reactive angle of acquiring a company and learning how to have to manage multiple clouds that way. >> That does sound like it's a bit of a trend that we're hearing and particularly today, I think, Lisa, where enterprises want choice, and that customer choice, of being able to choose things that actually suit me, rather than necessarily which vendor I'm buying my infrastructure from. That sounds like something that we're hearing a lot. >> Yeah, and we've invested a lot of time, engineering effort, working with Amazon, working with Google, working with Microsoft, to unify that data layer across the three cloud providers, and I think that's something unique that Mongo's really focused on. >> But there were so many announcements that came out, in Andy Jassy's keynote a couple of days ago. I think I read 23 announcements just in the first 20 minutes, or something of his keynote. So much information, but I'm curious, did anything that they announced surprise you in terms of, hey, customers are living in this multicloud world, there's use cases, there's reasons for it? Any shift that Amazon is making or announced this week that you thought, yes, some of these things are becoming a reality? We have to go where the data is, and we have to deliver what's best for our customers. >> I mean, I think Amazon is a very customer-centric company. I don't think I heard any announcement that particularly acknowledged the fact that it's going to be a multicloud world, you know, I think they're still the market share leader, they have a rich set of offerings, and they're going to continue building on that which I think makes a lot of sense from the position that they're in. I think some of the announcements that are interesting to us, definitely the idea of having lower cost, higher performance ARM hardware and chips for our database vendor. If we can lower the price performance curve for customers on top of that infrastructure, that's exciting for us, and we always think it's interesting, in a AWS keynote that's two or three hours long that about a third or half of it is talk about data. We love data, so the more rich sets of services we can surround and integrate Mongo into, the better, so, exciting for us. >> Data seems to be like the next generation of cloud, data can become a huge asset for any business in any industry, whereas, there are companies and times where data was a risk, a vunerability. What is a great example, in your opinion, of a MongoDB customer who has done a great job of transforming to where data is now a huge asset, and a driver of business differentiation? >> So, one interesting customer example I really like is Axiom. They're a marketing data provider, data has been the heart of their business for a long time, but traditionally their business would be packaging up and shipping data sets to their end customers, in a very custom bespoke manner. What we worked with them on is leveraging our cloud platform Atlas, along with some API technologies that we have, and a product called Stitch, to make it very easy for them to create custom APIs to allow their end customers to access that data programmatically. And since we manage and run that on their behalf, their development team, their operations team don't have to worry about the plumbing and managing of all these API layers and all that, they just stamp out these custom APIs, we auto-scale them on top of the rich Mongo database on the back end, and so we've allowed them to really take the data business they were in, but really modernize it by exposing it directly to developers programmatically instead of just shipping data around which is expensive and cumbersome. So I think that's a really interesting example of a data company transforming itself, and kind of innovating in the cloud with some of the technologies we provide, obviously, on top of the Amazon platform. >> So, you mentioned transforming, that's definitely been a theme of the show. So MongoDB is a different way of actually managing data, so compared to traditional methods. A lot of enterprises still have a lot of investment in RDBMSs, more traditional kind of databases. What are you seeing when customers come to MongoDB and start using this different way of storing and managing data? What is that transition for them like? >> Sure, so I think the thing that MongoDB's inception 11 years ago through now, what drives our adoption, I should say, is really the fact that developers love our platform. The document model, the MongoDB API is just a much more flexible and natural way for developers to think about writing applications, so, you know, you're building an application, you might be managing a customer object, a product, an account. These are all sort of business objects that get represented in a developer's mind and then in an application, but then if you put that in a relational database, you're chopping that up into rows and tables, and then having to rejoin that back together just to make sense of the underlying information you're trying to represent. Mongo gets rid of all of that cognitive dissonance, and that's what really unlocks that developer productivity. Now, the interesting thing about MongoDB is as a non-relational database, we have looked at the legacy RDBMS providers and said, what are the things that are really strong about those platforms that we can bring forth and apply to this much more agile and natural data model? So things like data governance and schema, strong transactional guarantees, enterprise management functionality, enterprise security and encryption at a very deep level. These are things that large mission critical application developers and operators really need. And they don't typically find them in fast databases, scalable databases, like MongoDB. So what we've done is really merge the best of the legacy traditional databases, the things people expect in a rock-solid mission critical database, but brought it forward in a model that's much faster for developers to move quickly on, and so the way that represents itself in our business, roughly about a third of our business any given quarter, tends to come from legacy migrations off of some traditional relational database, and the driver for that is modernization. People want to move those apps to the cloud, they don't just want to lift and shift from one relational database to another necessarily, that might have certain cost benefits from one provider to another, but it doesn't unlock that developer agility, and that's why they're choosing MongoDB. >> So all in the spirit of transformation, the ability for MongoDB to unlock the developer productivity, one of the things Andy Jassy talked about on Tuesday was, one of the four essential pillars of transformation. It's got to come from the top down, it's got to come from that senior executive level, they've got to drive it down aggressively. As chief product officer, where are your conversations? Are you still, in terms of feedback and, you know, customer advisory information, are you still talking mostly to the developer folks who were the primary users, or are you also having those higher level-- >> Sahir: Both. >> Both, tell us a little bit about that. >> Now what's interesting about a data technology like Mongo is, it's not a top down sort of sell. No CIO, CTO, line-of-business executive is going to dictate down to their developers, thou shalt use this particular database technology, or what not. Every development team is going to choose a technology that allows them to move fast and meets their requirements. So, what we've really done is we've focused on engaging with our customers, our sales organization, our marketing organization, our developer relations organization, is merging a strategic top-down sort of model with those CIOs and business leaders about how MongoDB can transform their business as a data platform. Get that sponsorship, get that executive alignment, to be a strategic provider, but then at the same time, really fostering that community that MongoDB's always been known for bottoms up to make sure that more and more of these applications see the power and value of MongoDB. So we have to merge both those motions. If we were just bottoms up, then I think we wouldn't be as strategic as we are in many of these organizations in terms of how transformative as a vendor and a technology provider and partner we are. But at the same time, if we lost our roots with the developers, databases don't get chosen from the top down, they get introduced and put on the list, maybe, and sponsored into the account, but we've got to build and earn that trust with developers directly. >> Yeah, so you've had incredible success, incredible growth so far. >> Sahir: Thank you. >> What's next for Mongo? >> So, I think a big part of our journey for the last three or four years has been really, adding a second major growth engine to the company by building out our cloud business. So that was our MongoDB Atlas platform built on top of AWS, Azure, and GCP, and that is the fastest growing part of our business, and will clearly be, you know, the majority of our business in the future. The next year to two years, is really about transitioning from a single data product company to a data platform company. So earlier this year, we announced not just the core foundational database features we're always building on top of, but also a big step into analytics, with our Atlas Data Lake product, which allows development teams and analysts to run queries using the Mongo query language they love, but on top of S3, where they have mountains and mountains of data stored from all these different sources. And at the same time we've also added things like full text indexing, so instead of standing up a, search cluster next to your Mongo database, having to worry about copying data just to get full text search in your application, we merge that capability directly into the Atlas platform. So, a big part of our journey is saying, once we have so many customers on the platform, how can we add more value, and yet still merge that all in a very expressive developer experience with our query language? So they're not dealing with 13 different databases and four copies of their data and integrating and shuttling that all around, but is a very prescriptive experience for them. >> Wow, Sahir, thank you for sharing all the innovations that are going on at MongoDB with Justin and me on the program today. A lot going on. >> Yeah, thank you for having me. I really enjoyed the show and coming on theCUBE. >> Lisa: Good, we appreciate your time. >> Great. >> For my co-host Justin Warren, I'm Lisa Martin, and you've been watching theCUBE from Vegas, baby. AWS re:Invent '19. Thanks for watching. (electronic music)