>>Hey, everyone. Welcome to the cubes coverage of women in data science, 2022. I'm Lisa Martin. And I'm here with one of the key featured keynotes for this year is with events. So the Aragon, the professor and department of human centered design and engineering at the university of Washington Cecilia, it's a pleasure to have you on the cube. >>Thank you so much, Lisa Lisa, it's a pleasure to be here as well. >>You got an amazing background that I want to share with the audience. You are a professor, you are a data scientist, an aerobatic pilot, and an author with expertise in human centered, data science, visual analytics, aviation safety, and analysis of extremely large and complex data sets. That's quite the background. >>Well, thank you so much. It's it's all very interesting and fun. So, >>And as a professor, you study how people make sense of vast data sets, including a combination of computer science and art, which I love. And as an author, you write about interesting things. You write about how to overcome fear, which is something that everybody can benefit from and how to expand your life until it becomes amazing. I need to take a page out of your book. You were also honored by president Obama a few years back. My goodness. >>Thank you so much. Yes. I I've had quite a journey to come here, but I feel really fortunate to be here today. >>Talk about that journey. I'd love to understand if you were always interested in stem, if it was something that you got into later, I know that you are the co-founder of Latinas in computing, a passionate advocate for girls and women in stem. Were you always interested in stem or was it something that you got into in a kind of a non-linear path? >>I was always interested in it when I was a young girl. I grew up in a small Midwestern town and my parents are both immigrants and I was one of the few Latinas in a mostly white community. And I was, um, I loved math, but I also wanted to be an astronaut. And I remember I, when we were asked, I think it was in second grade. What would you like to be when you grow up? I said, oh, I want to be an astronaut. And my teacher said, oh, you can't do that. You're a girl pick something else. And um, so I picked math and she was like, okay. >>Um, so I always wanted to, well, maybe it would be better to say I never really quite lost my love of being up in the air and potentially space. But, um, but I ended up working in math and science and, um, I, I loved it because one of the great advantages of math is that it's kind of like a magic trick for young people, especially if you're a girl or if you are from an underrepresented group, because if you get the answers right on a math test, no one can mark you wrong. It doesn't matter what the color of your skin is or what your gender is. Math is powerful that way. And I will say there's nothing like standing in a room in front of a room of people who think little of you and you silence them with your love with numbers. >>I love that. I never thought about math as power before, but it clearly is. But also, you know, and, and I wish we had more time because I would love to get into how you overcame that fear. And you write books about that, but being told you can't be an astronaut. You're a girl and maybe laughing at you because you liked Matt. How did you overcome that? And so nevermind I'm doing it anyway. >>Well, that's a, it's a, okay. The short answer is I had incredible imposter syndrome. I didn't believe that I was smart enough to get a PhD in math and computer science. But what enabled me to do that was becoming a pilot and I B I learned how to fly small airplanes. I learned how to fly them upside down and pointing straight at the ground. And I know this might sound kind of extreme. So this is not what I recommend to everybody. But if you are brought up in a way where everybody thinks little of you, one of the best things you can possibly do is take on a challenge. That's scary. I was afraid of everything, but by learning to fly and especially learning to fly loops and rolls, it gave me confidence to do everything else because I thought I appointed the airplane at the ground at 250 miles an hour and waited, why am I afraid to get a PhD in computer science? >>Wow. How empowering is that? >>Yeah, it really was. So that's really how I overcame the fear. And I will say that, you know, I encountered situations getting my PhD in computer science where I didn't believe that I was good enough to finish the degree. I didn't believe that I was smart enough. And what I've learned later on is that was just my own emotional, you know, residue from my childhood and from people telling me that they, you know, that they, that I couldn't achieve >>As I look what, look what you've achieved so far. It's amazing. And we're going to be talking about some of the books that you've written, but I want to get into data science and AI and get your thoughts on this. Why is it necessary to think about human issues and data science >>And what are your thoughts there? So there's been a lot of work in data science recently looking at societal impacts. And if you just address data science as a purely technical field, and you don't think about unintended consequences, you can end up with tremendous injustices and societal harms and harms to individuals. And I think any of us who has dealt with an inflexible algorithm, even if you just call up, you know, customer service and you get told, press five for this press four for that. And you say, well, I don't fit into any of those categories, you know, or have the system hang up on you after an hour. I think you'll understand that any type of algorithmic approach, especially on very large data sets has the risk of impacting people, particularly from low income or marginalized groups, but really any of us can be impacted in a negative way. >>And so, as a developer of algorithms that work over very large data sets, I've always found it really important to consider the humans on the other end of the algorithm. And that's why I believe that all data science is truly human centered or should be human centered, should be human centered and also involves both technical issues as well as social issues. Absolutely correct. So one example is that, um, many of us who started working in data science, including I have to admit me when I started out assume that data is unbiased. It's scrubbed of human influence. It is pure in some ways, however, that's really not true as I've started working with datasets. And this is generally known in the field that data sets are touched by humans everywhere. As a matter of fact, in our, in the recent book that we're, that we're coming out with human centered data science, we talk about five important points where humans touch data, no matter how scrubbed of human influence it's support it's supposed to be. >>Um, so the first one is discovery. So when a human encounters, a data set and starts to use it, it's a human decision. And then there's capture, which is the process of searching for a data set. So any data that has to be selected and chosen by an individual, um, then once that data set is brought in there's curation, a human will have to select various data sets. They'll have to decide what is, what is the proper set to use. And they'll be making judgements on this the time. And perhaps one of the most important ways the data is changed and touched by humans is what we call the design of data. And what that means is whenever you bring in a data set, you have to categorize it. No, for example, let's suppose you are, um, a geologist and you are classifying soil data. >>Well, you don't just take whatever the description of the soil data is. You actually may put it into a previously established taxonomy and you're making human judgments on that. So even though you think, oh, geology data, that's just rocks. You know, that's soil. It has nothing to do with people, but it really does. Um, and finally, uh, people will label the data that they have. And this is especially critical when humans are making subjective judgments, such as what race is the person in this dataset. And they may judge it based on looking at the individual skin color. They may try to apply an algorithm to it, but you know what? We all have very different skin colors, categorizing us into race boxes, really diminishes us and makes us less than we truly are. So it's very important to realize that humans touch the data. We interpret the data. It is not scrubbed of bias. And when we make algorithmic decisions, even the very fact of having an algorithm that makes a judgment say on whether a prisoner's likely to offend again, the judge just by having an algorithm, even if the algorithm makes a recommended statement, they are impacted by that algorithms recommendation. And that has obviously an impact on that human's life. So we consider all of this. >>So you just get given five solid reasons why data science and AI are inevitably human centric should be, but in the past, what's led to the separation between data science and humans. >>Well, I think a lot of it simply has to do with incorrect mental models. So many of us grew up thinking that, oh, humans have biases, but computers don't. And so if we just take decision-making out of people's hands and put it into the hands of an algorithm, we will be having less biased results. However, recent work in the field of data science and artificial intelligence has shown that that's simply not true that algorithmic algorithms reinforce human biases. They amplify them. So algorithmic biases can be much worse than human biases and can greater impact. >>So how do we pull ethics into all of this data science and AI and that ethical component, which seems to be that it needs to be foundational. >>It absolutely has to be foundational. And this is why we believe. And what we teach at the university of Washington in our data science courses is that ethical and human centered approaches and ideas have to be brought in at the very beginning of the algorithm. It's not something you slap on at the end or say, well, I'll wait for the ethicists to weigh in on this. Now we are all human. We can all make human decisions. We can all think about the unintended consequences of our algorithms as we develop them. And we should do that at the very beginning. And all algorithm designers really need to spend some time thinking about the impact that their algorithm may have. >>Right. Do you, do you find that people are still in need of convincing of that or is it generally moving in that direction of understanding? We need to bring ethics in from the beginning, >>It's moving in that direction, but there are still people who haven't modified their mental models yet. So we're working on it. And we hope that with the publication of our book, that it will be used as a supplemental textbook in many data science courses that are focused exclusively on the algorithms and that they can open up the idea that considering the human centered approaches at the beginning of learning about algorithms and data science and the mathematical and statistical techniques, that the next generation of data scientists and artificial intelligence developers will be able to mitigate some of the potentially harmful effects. And we're very excited about this. This is why I'm a professor, because I want to teach the next generation of data scientists and artificial intelligence experts, how to make sure that their work really achieves what they intended it to, which is to make the world a better place, not a worse place, but to enable humans to do better and to mitigate biases and really to lead us into this century in a positive way. >>So the book, human centered data science, you can see it there over Sicily, his right shoulder. When does this come out and how can folks get a copy of it? >>So it came out March 1st and it's available in bookstores everywhere. It was published by MIT press, and you can go online or you can go to your local independent bookstore, or you can order it from your university bookstore as well. >>Excellent. Got to, got to get a copy of, get my hands on that. Got cut and get a copy and dig into that. Cause it sounds so interesting, but also so thoughtful and, um, clear in the way that you described that. And also all the opportunities that, that AI data science and humans are gonna unlock for the world and humans and jobs and, and great things like that. So I'm sure there's lots of great information there. Last question I mentioned, you are keynoting at this year's conference. Talk to me about like the top three takeaways that the audience is going to get from your keynote. >>So I'm very excited to have been invited to wins this year, which of course is a wonderful conference to support women in data science. And I've been a big fan of the conference since it was first developed here, uh, here at Stanford. Um, the three, the three top takeaways I would say is to really consider the data. Science can be rigorous and mathematical and human centered and ethical. It's not a trade-off, it's both at the same time. And that's really the, the number one that, that I'm hoping to keynote will bring to, to the entire audience. And secondly, I hope that it will encourage women or people who've been told that maybe you're not a science person or this isn't for you, or you're not good at math. I hope it will encourage them to disbelieve those views. And to realize that if you, as a member of any type of unread, underrepresented group have ever felt, oh, I'm not good enough for this. >>I'm not smart enough. It's not for me that you will reconsider because I firmly believe that everyone can be good at math. And it's a matter of having the information presented to you in a way that honors your, the background you had. So when I started out my, my high school didn't have AP classes and I needed to learn in a somewhat different way than other people around me. And it's really, it's really something. That's what I tell young people today is if you are struggling in a class, don't think it's because you're not good enough. It might just be that the teacher is not presenting it in a way that is best for someone with your particular background. So it doesn't mean they're a bad teacher. It doesn't mean you're unintelligent. It just means the, maybe you need to find someone else that can explain it to you in a simple and clear way, or maybe you need to get some scaffolding that is Tate, learn extra, take extra classes that will help you. Not necessarily remedial classes. I believe very strongly as a teacher in giving students very challenging classes, but then giving them the scaffolding so that they can learn that difficult material. And I have longer stories on that, but I think I've already talked a bit too long. >>I love that. The scaffolding, I th I think the, the one, one of the high level takeaways that we're all going to get from your keynote is inspiration. Thank you so much for sharing your path to stem, how you got here, why humans, data science and AI are, have to be foundationally human centered, looking forward to the keynote. And again, Cecilia, Aragon. Thank you so much for spending time with me today. >>Thank you so much, Lisa. It's been a pleasure, >>Likewise versus silly Aragon. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes coverage of women in data science, 2022.

>>Mhm. >>What? >>Hello and welcome to today's session of the 2021 AWS Global public sector partner awards for today's award for the award of best partner transformation, best global expansion. I'm your host Natalie ehrlich and now I'm very pleased to introduce you to our next guest. They are James Lester Global Managing Director, public Safety attic censure. And Lauren a thoroughly director of performance analytics and research of the Seattle Police Department. Welcome gentlemen, it's wonderful to have you on the program. >>Thanks for having us >>terrific. Well, we're going to talk a lot about data and a lot about public safety and how, you know, data analytics analytics is making a big impact um in the public safety world. So do tell us I'd like to start with you James. Uh tell us how X enters intelligent public safety platform turns data into a strategic asset. >>Thanks Natalie. Well, the intelligent public safety platform is all about combining different data sets together and taking a platform approach to using data within public safety. What it does is it allows us to bring a whole host of different types of data together in one place, put that through a series of different analytical transactions and then visualize that information back to where however within the public safety environment needs it and really does four key things. One is, it helps with situational awareness, helps the officer understand the situation that they're in and gives them insight to help support and guide them. Secondly it helps enhance investigations. So how do you join those dots? How do you help navigate and speed up complex investigations by better understanding a range of data sets. And thirdly it really helps with force management and understanding the behavior and the activities within the force and how best to use those critical assets of police officers and police staff themselves. And then finally what it does is it really looks at digital evidence management. How do you actually manage data effectively as an asset within the force? So those are the four key things. And certainly with our work at Seattle we've really focused on that force management area. >>Yeah. Thanks for mentioning that. Now let's shift to Lauren tell us how has I PSP you know, really helped your staff make some key contributions towards public safety in the city of Seattle. >>Yeah. Thanks. Uh so you know I think our business intelligence journey started maybe a little in advance of the I. P. S. P. With our partnership With accenture on the data analytics platform. And we've been taking that, say my PSP approach since 2015 as part of our efforts to comply with a federal consent decree. So, you know, I think what what we probably don't understand necessarily is that most police departments build sort of purpose built source systems to onboard data and make good use of them. But that doesn't necessarily mean that that data is readily available. So, um, you know, we've been able to demonstrate compliance with the elements of a settlement agreement for our consent decree, but we've also been able to do a whole host of research projects designed to better understand how police operate in the criminal logical environment, how they perform and um, and really make the best use of those assets as we have them deployed around the city doing law enforcement work. >>Terrific. Now, James, let's shift to you one of the kind of key dilemmas here in the sectors. You know, how can you utilize these um, new technologies in policing, um, and law enforcement while still building trust with the public? >>Absolutely. I mean, I do think that it is critical that public safety agencies are able to use the benefits of new technology, criminals are using technology in all sorts of different ways. Uh and it's important that policing and public safety organizations are able to exploit the advantages that we now see through technology and the ability to understand and analyze data. But equally, it's critical that these implemented in ways that engage and involve the public, that the way in which the analytics and analysis is conducted is open and transparent, so people understand how the data is being used, uh and also that officers themselves are part of the process when these tools are built and developed, so they gain a thorough understanding of how to use them and how to implement them. So, being open and transparent in the way that these platforms are built is absolutely critical. >>Yeah, that's an excellent point because clearly bad actors are already using data. Um, so we might as well use it to help, you know, the good actors out there and help the public. So in your opinion, Lauren, um, you know, what is the next phase of this kind of model? Um, what are you hoping to do next with this kind of technology? >>So as we use this technology as we understand more about it, we're really building data curiosity within the management group at SPD. So really sort of, I would say the first phase of a business intelligence platform in policing is about orienting people to the problem, how many of these things happen at what time and where do they happen around the city? And then beginning to build better questions from the people who are actually doing the business of delivering police service in the city and the future of that, I think is taking that critical feedback and understanding how to respond with really more intelligence services, predictive services that help to kind of cut through that just general descriptive noise and provide insights to the operation in a city that has About 900,000 dispatches in a year. It's difficult to pinpoint which dispatches are of interest to police managers, which crimes which calls may be of interest to the city at large as they manage public safety and risk management. And so are, you know, sort of future development agenda. Our road map, if you will for the next several years is really focused on developing intelligent processes that make use of all of that data, boil it down to what's critically important and help direct people who are most familiar with the operation. To those uh those events, those critical pieces of insight that might be helpful in allowing them to make better management decisions. >>Yeah. And what what are some of the key areas that you find this platform can be effective in terms of uh you know public safety, certain criminal activities James. >>Um I think the PSP has a wide range of applications so certainly looking at how we can bring a whole range of data together that previously has maybe been locked away in individual silos or separate systems. So public safety agencies are really able to understand what they know and the information that they have and make it much easier to access and understand that information. Um I also think it's allowing us to perform levels of analytics and therefore insight on those data sets, which previously public safety agencies have have struggled to do. Um And in the case of Seattle focusing on the uh force management aspect, I think it's helped them understand the activities and behavior of their workforce um in context and in relation to other events and other activities to a much greater depth than they've been able to do previously. >>Terrific. Well, Lauren obviously, you know, this was a really tough year with Covid. What impact did the pandemic have on your operations and some of your more modern policing efforts? >>Oh, I mean, obviously it radically changed the way that we deploy forces in the organization beginning early in March. Uh you know, like most of the world, we all moved home trying to keep up the pace of development and continue to manage the operation. But as that was happening, you know, people are still living their lives out in the world and out in the city. So we pretty quickly found ourselves trying to adapt to that new use of public spaces, trying to identify problems in an environment that really doesn't look anything like the previous couple of years that we were working in, uh and uh, you know, data and and really sort of the availability of technology that helps too identify what's new and what's interesting and rapidly develop those insights and get them available for police managers was critical and helping us identify things like trends in potential exposure events. So being able to identify uh, you know, just exactly how many calls involve the use of personal protective equipment, use that to forecast potential exposure for our workforce. Be able to track exposure reports in the field to be able to determine whether there are staffing concerns that need to be considered. Uh and all of that. Uh you know, we're able to pretty rapidly prototype and deploy dashboards and tools that help folks, especially the command staff, have kind of a global sense for how the operation is functioning as the environment is literally shifting underneath them as uh, you know, uh the use of public spaces is changing and as dispatch procedures are changing as public policy is changing related to, you know, things like jail booking availability and public health and safety policies. The department was able to stay on top of those key metrics and really make sort of the best minute by minute decisions based in the data. And that's really not something that's been available, uh You know, without sort of the ready availability of data at your fingertips and the ability to rapidly prototype things that direct people to what's important. >>Yeah, thank you for that. Now, James, I'd love to hear your comments on that. I mean, has the pandemic altered or, you know, given you any kind of fresh perspective on uh you know, modern policing efforts using these kinds of platforms? >>Well, I think that the pandemic has shown the importance of using data in new and different ways. I mean, one thing the pandemic certainly did was see a shift in in crime types. You know, traditional street based volume crime declined, where we saw increases in cyber and online crime. And therefore the flexibility that police services have had to have in order to shift how they combat changing crime types has meant that they've had to be able to use data as they say, in new and different ways. And think about how can they be more disruptive in their tactics? How can they get new types of insight and really platforms like the intelligent public safety platform help them become much more flexible and much more nimble and that's certainly something that's been required as a result of the pandemic. >>Yeah, that's really great to hear. Um you know, Lauren going to you, I'd love to hear how specifically I PSP was able to help you uh you know, the Seattle Police department as well as statewide inquiries and end investigations. What kind of enhancements were you able to receive from that? >>Uh Well, you know, I mean in terms of investigations, uh the way that Seattle deploys the intelligent public safety platform, our focus is really primarily on deployment of resources that force management, the accountability, piece of things. And so from our perspective, the ability to onboard new data sources quickly uh and make use of that information in a kind of a rapid sort of responsive function was really critical for us but um you know, certainly and I think as as most communities are exploring new ways of approaching community safety, uh the intelligent public safety platform uh for us was really effective in being able to answer those, those questions that are coming up as as people are reforming the way that policing is deployed in their communities, were able to reach out and see just exactly how many hours are spent on one particular function over another, something that perhaps could be available for a co responder model, or take a look at, you know, this sort of natural experiment that we have out in our criminal logical environment as people are using spaces differently. And as we are approaching enforcement policy differently, being able to take a look at what are the effects of perhaps not arresting people for certain types of crime? Do we see some displacement of those effects across different crime types? Do we see an increase in harm in other areas of the operation? Have we seen you know increases in one particular crime type while another one declines? How is the environment responding these rapid changes and what really is a natural experiment occurring out in the world? >>Yeah I mean it's really incredible um Having all that data at our fingertips and really being able to utilize it to have a fuller perspective of what's really happening right? What what do you think James? >>Yeah. I mean I think being able to really utilize different data sets is something that police forces are seeing to become more and more important. Um They're recognizing that becoming increasingly data lead can really help improve their performance. Um And the challenge to date has really been how do we bring those data sets together but not then require police officers to way through reams and reams of data. I mean the volumes of data now that organizations are having to manage is huge. And so really the power of the I. P. S. P. Is being able to filter through all of that data and really deliver actionable insight. So something that the police officer can go and do something with and really make a difference around. Um And that's something that that's absolutely critical. And modern day policing is increasingly having this data driven evidence based approach to help make it far more effective and really focused on the needs of its citizens. >>Yeah and as you mentioned, I mean the algorithms are really driving this you know, um giving us these actionable insights but how can we ensure that they're acting fairly to all the stakeholders James. I'd like you to answer this please. >>Um Absolutely. I mean, trust and confidence within policing is absolutely paramount. Uh and whilst the use of these sorts of tools, I think is critical to helping keep communities in the public safe. It's very important that these tools are deployed in an open transparent way. And part of that is understanding the algorithms, making sure that algorithmic fairness is built in so that these are tested and any sort of bias or unintended consequences are understood and known and factored in to the way in which the tools are both built and used. Um, and then on top of that, I think it's open, it's important that these are open and transparent, that it's clear how and why departments are using these technologies. And it's also critical that the officers using them are trained and understood how to use them and how to use the insights that they're starting to deliver. >>Yeah, and thanks for mentioning that Lauren, what kind of training are you providing your staff at the Seattle police department And you know, how do you see this evolving in the next few years >>with regard to algorithmic fairness, what kind of training along those lines or training >>with the I. P. S. P. And all these other kinds of technologies that you're embracing now to help with your public safety initiatives? >>Well, you know, I think one of the one of the real benefits to becoming an evidence based organization, a truly evidence led organization is that you don't have to train folks uh to use data. What you have to do is leverage data to make it work and be really infused with their everyday operations. So we, you know, we have police officers and we have managers and we have commanders and they've got a very complex set of tasks that they've been trained to work with. It's really sort of our mission to be trained in, how to identify uh you know, the correct UX UI design, how to make sure that the insights that are being directed to those folks are really tailored to the business they're operating. And so to that extent, the analytical staff that we have is really focused on sort of continuous improvement and constant learning about how we can be mindful of things like bias and the algorithms and the various systems that we're deploying uh and also be up to date on the latest and how police operations really are sort of deployed around the city and ways that we can infuse those various management functions or those police service functions with data and analytics that are just naturally working with people's business sense and they're uh really sort of primary function, which is the delivery of police service >>terrific. Well, James lastly with you um just real quick you know, what are your thoughts in terms of being able to extend the power of I. P. S. P. Beyonce Seattle uh in the broader United States? >>Well I mean I think my PSP has huge applicability to any public safety agency in in the US and beyond and we're already seeing other agencies around the world interested in using it and deploying it um Where they basically want to get uh and be able to utilize a wider range of data where they want to be able to drive greater insight into that that data set um Where they want to be confident in deploying open and fair algorithms um to really make a difference. Um And if we to take the the specific example of the U. S. And the work that we've done with Seattle then I think tools like the intention public safety platform have a huge part to play in the wider reimagining of policing within the US in understanding officer and departmental behavior and actually opening up and sharing information with citizens that increased levels of trust and transparency between public safety agencies and the communities and citizens that they serve. >>And you know, on that note, do you think that I PSP is useful in terms of collaboration efforts, you know, with other police departments, perhaps in other states? Um you know or just just as a global national effort. Lauren, do you see that kind of potential in the future? >>Yeah and actually we do that now. So one of the really sort of powerful things about having all of this data at your fingertips and I would say having this kind of awesome responsibility of being the steward of this type of asset for the community. Um and and really sort of for the industry at large is that we're able to take the data and rapidly develop new research projects with researchers around the world. So the Seattle Police Department maintains a network of about I think we're up to about 55 current researchers and institutions. I think we've got about 33, institutions around the world. People really working on real time problems related to the things that matter to our community right now. And having this data available at our fingertips allows us to rapidly develop data sources. We can actually get on a call with one of our researchers uh and build out a table for them to use or start exploring the data in an ad hoc querying layer layer and, you know, making visualizations and helping the researchers form better questions so that when we develop their data, when we deploy it to them, uh they can pretty quickly get in there. It's in the format that they're looking for, They understand it. They can run some tests and determine whether the data that we provided for them actually meets their needs. And if it doesn't, we can develop a new set pretty quickly. I I think that also that research function, that discovery function that were enabled through the use of these data is actually helping to bring together uh the community of law enforcement around this this idea of Collaborative understanding of how policing works around the city, you know, sorry, around the world. So of 18,000 or so law enforcement agencies in the United States, there is broad variability in people's competency in their use of data, but we're finding that agencies that have access to these types of tools or who are starting to develop access to these tools and the competencies to use them are coming together. Uh and beginning to talk about how we can understand sort of cross cultural and cross regional correlations and patterns that we see across our multiple operations. And although, you know, those are varied uh and and range around the country or even around the world, I think that that collaboration on understanding how policing works, what's normal, what's abnormal, what we can do about it is really going to be powerful in the future. >>Yeah, Well, this is really exciting. Yeah. Well, what are your thoughts? >>I was just going to build on the point that Lauren was making there because I think I think that is a really important one. Um you know, when when you look around the world, the challenges that different public safety and policing agencies face are actually dramatically similar um and the ability for policing organizations to come together and think about how they use data, think about how they use data in a fair and transparent way is something we're really starting to see and that ability to share insight to experiment um and really make sure that you're bringing lots of different insight together to further the way in which police forces all over the world can actually help keep their citizens safe and combat what is an increasingly rapidly and evolving threat. Landscape is something that we see tools like the intelligent public safety platform really helping to do and if one police force starts to use it in a certain way in one jurisdiction and has success there, there is definitely the ability to share that insight with others and get this global pool of understanding and knowledge all furthering the level of safety and security that can be delivered to communities in the public. >>Terrific. Well, thank you both so much for your insights has been really fantastic to hear. You know, how these new technologies are really coming to the aid of public safety officials and helping secure the public. That was Lauren a thoroughly director of performance analytics and research at the Seattle police Department and James Schlesser. Global Managing Director, Public Safety at its center. And I'm Natalie early, your host for the cube and that was our session for the AWS Global Public uh, partner Awards. Thank you very much for watching. >>Mm

(energetic music) >> Announcer: Live, from Stanford University in Palo Alto, California, it's The Cube, covering Women in Data Science Conference 2018. Brought to you by Stanford. >> Welcome back to The Cube. We are live at Stanford University at the third annual Women in Data Science Conference. I am Lisa Martin. We've had a really exciting day so far, talking with a lot of female leaders in different parts of STEM fields. And I'm excited to be joined by my next guest, who is a speaker at this year's WIDS 2018 event, Daniela Witten, the Associate Professor of Statistics and Biostatistics at the University of Washington. Daniela, thanks so much for stopping by The Cube. >> Oh, thanks so much for the invitation. >> So here we are at Stanford University. You spent quite a lot of time here. You've got three degrees from Stanford, so it's kind of like coming back home? >> Yeah, I've spent from 2001 to 2010 here. I started with a bachelor's degree in math and biology, and then I did a master's, and finally a PhD in statistics. >> And so now you're up at the University of Washington. Tell us about that. What is your focus there? >> Yeah, so my work is in statistical machine learning, with applications to large scale data coming out of biology. And so the idea is that in the last ten or 20 years, the field of biology has been totally transformed by new technologies that make it possible to measure a person's DNA sequence, or to see the activity in their brain. Really, all different types of measurements that would have been unthinkable just a few years ago. But unfortunately, we don't yet know really how to make sense of these data statistically. So there's a pretty big gap between the data that we're collecting, or rather, the data that biologists are collecting, and then the scientific conclusions that we can draw from these data. So my work focuses on trying to bridge this gap by developing statistical methods that we can use to make sense of this large scale data. >> That sounds exciting. So, WIDS, this is the third year, and they have grown this event remarkably quickly. So, we had Margot Garritsen on the program a little bit earlier, and she had shared 177 regional WIDS events going on today, this week, in 53 countries. And they're expecting to reach 100,000 people. So, for you, as a speaker, what is it that attracted you to participate in the WIDS movement, and share your topic, which we'll get to in a second, what was it that sort of attracted you to that? >> Well, first of all, it's an honor to be invited to participate in this event, which, as you mentioned, is getting live streamed and so many people are watching. But what's really special for me, of course, as a woman, is that there's so many conferences out there that I speak at, and the vast majority have a couple of female speakers, and it's not because there's a lack of talent. There are plenty of very qualified women who could be speaking at these conferences. But often, the conference organizers just don't think of women right away, or maybe add a couple women as an afterthought to their speaker lineups. And so it's really wonderful to be part of a conference where all of the speakers are women, and so we can really see the broad ways in which women are contributing to data science, both in and out of industry. >> And one of the things that Margot shared was, she had this idea with her co-founders only three years ago in 2015, and they got from concept to their first event in six months. >> Daniela: Women know how to get things done. >> We do, don't we? (laughs) But also what it showed, and even in 2015, and we still have this problem in 2018, is there's a massive demand for this. >> Yeah. >> The statistics, speaking of statistics, the numbers show very few women that are getting degrees in STEM subjects are actually working in their field. I just saw this morning, it's really cool, interactive infographic that someone shared with me on Twitter, thank you very much, that showed that 20 percent of females get degrees in engineering, but only 11 percent of them are working in engineering. And you think, "How have we gone backwards in the last 30 years?" But at least now we've got this movement, this phenomenon that is WIDS to start, even from an awareness perspective, of showing we don't have a lot of thought diversity. We have a great opportunity to increase that, and you've got a great platform in order to share your story. >> Yeah. Well, I think that you raise a good point though, as, even though the number of women majoring in STEM fields, at least in some areas of STEM has increased, the number of women making it higher up in the STEM ladder hasn't, for the most part. And one reason for this is possibly the lack of female role models. So being able to attend a conference like this, for young women who are interested in developing their career in STEM, I'm sure is really inspirational and a great opportunity. So it's wonderful for Margot and the other organizers to have put this together. >> It is. Even on the recruiting side, some of the things that still surprise me are when some, whether it's universities or companies that are going to universities to recruit for STEM roles, they're still bringing mostly men. And if there are females at the events, they're, often times they're handing out swag, they're doing more event coordination, which is great. I'm a marketer. There's a lot of females in marketing. But it still shows the need to start from a visibility standpoint and a messaging standpoint alone. They've got to flip this. >> I completely agree with that, but it also works the other way. So, often a company or an academic department might have a few women in a particular role, and those women get asked to do everything. Because they'll say, "Oh, we're going to Stanford to recruit. We need a woman there. We're having some event, and we don't want it to look totally non-diverse, so we need a woman there too." And the small number of women in STEM get asked to do a lot of things that the men don't get asked to do, and this can also be really problematic. Even though the intent is good, to clearly showcase the fact that there's diversity in STEM and in academia, the end outcome can actually be hurtful to the women involved who are being asked to do more than their fair share. So we need to find a way to balance this. >> Right. That balance is key. So what I want to kind of pivot on next is, just looking at the field of data science, it's so interesting because it's very, I like 'cause it's horizontal. We just had a guest on from Uber, and we talk to on The Cube, people in many different industries, from big tech to baseball teams and things like that. And what it really shows, though, is, there's blurred lines, or maybe even lines that have evaporated between demarcated career A, B, C, D. And data science is so pervasive that it's impacting, people that are working in it, like yourself, have the ability to impact every sector, policy changes, things like that. Do you think that that message is out there enough? That the next generation understands how much impact they can make in data science? >> I think there is a lot of excitement from young people about data science. At U-dub, we have a statistics major, and it's really grown a lot in popularity in the last few years. We have a new master's degree in data science that just was started around the same time that WIDS was started, and we had 800 applicants this year. >> Wow. >> For a single masters program. Truly incredible. But I think that there's an element of it that also maybe people don't realize. So data science, there's a technical skill set that comes with it, and people are studying undergrad in statistics, and getting master's in data science in order to get that technical skill set. But there's also a non-technical skill set that's incredibly important, because data science isn't done in a vacuum. It's done within the context of interdisciplinary teams with team members from all different areas. So, for example, in my work, I work with biologists. Your previous guest from Uber, I'm sure is working with engineers and all different areas of the company. And in order to be successful in data science, you need to really not only have technical skills, but also the ability to work as a team player and to communicate your ideas. >> Yeah, you're right. Balancing those technical skills with, what some might call soft skills, empathy, collaboration, the ability to communicate, seems to be, we talked about balance earlier, a scale-wise. Would you say they're pretty equivalent, in terms of really, that would give somebody a great foundation as a data scientist? >> I would say that having both of those skill sets would give you a good foundation, yes. The extent to which either one is needed probably depends on the details of your job. >> True. So, I want to talk a little bit more about your background. Something that caught my eye was that your work has been featured in popular media. Forbes, three times, and Elle magazine, which of course, I thought, "What? I've got to talk to you about that!" Tell me a little bit about the opportunities that you've had in Forbes and in Elle magazine to share your story and to be a mentor. >> Yeah. Well, I've just been lucky to be getting involved in the field of statistics at a time when statistics is really growing in importance and interest. So the joke is, that ten years ago, if you went to a cocktail party, and you said that you were a statistician, then nobody would want to talk to you. (Lisa laughs) And now, if you go to a cocktail party and you say you're a statistician, everyone wants to know more and find out if you know of any job openings for them. >> Lisa: That's pretty cool! >> Yeah. So it's a really great time to be doing this kind of work. And there's really an increased appreciation for the fact that it's not enough to have access to a lot of data, but we really need the technical skills to make sense of that data. >> Right. So share with us a little bit about the session that you're doing here: More Data, More Statistical Problems. Tell us a little bit about that and maybe some of the three, what are the three key takeaways that the audience was hearing from you? >> Yeah. So I think the first real takeaway is, sometimes there's a feeling that, when we have a lot of data, we don't really need a deep understanding of statistics, we just need to know how to do machine learning, or how to develop a black box predictor. And so, the first point that I wanted to make is that that's not really right. Actually, the more data you have, often the more opportunity there is for your analysis to go awry, if you don't really have the solid foundations. Another point that I wanted to make is that there's been a lot of excitement about the promise of biology. So, a lot of my work has biomedical applications, and people have been hoping for many years that the new technologies that have come out in recent years in biology, would lead to improve understanding of human health and improve treatment of disease. And, it turns out, that it hasn't, at least not yet. We've got the data, but what we don't know how to do is how to analyze it yet. And so, the real gap between the data that we have and achieving its promise is actually a statistical gap. So there's a lot of opportunity for statisticians to help bridge that gap, in order to improve human health. And finally, the last point that I want to make is that a lot of these issues are really subtle. So we can try to just swing a hammer at our data and hope to get something out of it, but often there's subtle statistical issues that we need to think about, that could very much affect our results. And keeping in mind sort of the effects of our models, and some of these subtle statistical issues is very important. >> So, in terms of your team at University of Washington, or your classes that you teach, you work with undergrads. >> Yeah, I teach undergrads and PhD students, and I work mostly with PhD students. And I've just been lucky to work with incredibly talented students. I did my PhD here at Stanford, and I had a great advisor and really wonderful mentoring from my advisor and from the other faculty in the department. And so it's really great to have the opportunity now, in turn, to mentor grad students at University of Washington. >> What are some of the things that you help them with? Is it, we talk about inspiring women to get into the field, but, as you prepare these grad students to finish their master's or PhD's, and then go out either into academia or in industry, what are some of the other elements that you think is important for them to understand in terms of learning how to be assertive, or make their points in a respectful, professional way? Is that part of what you help them understand and achieve? >> That's definitely part of it. I would say another thing that I try to teach them, so everyone who I work with, all my students, they're incredibly strong technically, because you don't get into a top PhD program in statistics or biostatistics if you're not technically very strong, so what I try to help my students do is figure out not just how to solve problems, because they can solve any problem they set their mind to, but actually how to identify the problems that are likely to be high impact. Because there's so many problems out there that you can try to solve statistically, and, of course, we should all be focusing our efforts on the ones that are likely to have a really big impact on society, or on health, or whatever it is that we're trying to influence. >> Last question for you. If you look back to your education to now, what advice would you give your younger self? >> Gosh, that's a really great question. I think that I'm happy with many of the career decisions I've made. For example, getting a PhD in statistics, I think is a great career move. But, at the same time, maybe I would tell a younger version of me to take more risks, and not be so worried about meeting every requirement on time, and instead, expanding a little bit, taking more courses in other areas, and really broadening instead of just deepening my skill set. >> We've heard that sentiment echoed a number of times today, and one of the themes that I'm hearing a lot is don't be afraid to get out of your comfort zone. And it's so hard for us when we're in it, when we're younger, 'cause you don't know that, you don't have any experience there. But it's something that I always appreciate hearing from the women who've kind of led the way for those of us and then, the next generation, is, don't be afraid to get comfortably uncomfortable and as you said, take risks. It's not a bad thing, right? Well, Daniela, thanks so much for carving out some time to visit us on The Cube, and we're happy to have given you the opportunity to reach an even bigger audience with your message, and we wish you continued success at U-dub. >> Oh, thanks so much. >> We want to thank you for watching. I'm Lisa Martin live with The Cube at WIDS 2018 from Stanford University. Stick around, I'll be back with my next guest after a short break. (energetic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. Live here this is theCUBE in Las Vegas for AWS Amazon Web Services re:Invent 2017. Our 5th year covering the event. Wall to wall coverage. Three days, this is our day two. 45,000 people here. Developers and business connecting together this year. Big show. Amazon continues its growth. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Justin Warren. Our next guest is from Washington County Sheriff's Office using Amazon, Amazon Recognition, Chris Adzima, who is the Senior Information Systems Analyst at the Washington County Sheriff. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Nice to have you. >> So Chris. >> be here. >> So, so tons of cool stuff we saw on stage today. You know they've had polylex out for awhile. But you're gonna start to see some of these multi-media services around. Human identification, transcription, Recognition's been out for awhile. With the power of the cloud, you can start rollin' out some pretty cool services. You have one of 'em, talk about your solution and what you guys are doing with it. >> Sure, about last year when Recognition was announced, I wanted to provide our deputies at the Sheriff's office with the way to identify people based on videos that we get from either surveillance or eyewitnesses. So, I looked into Recognition and decided that we should give it a try by giving all of our booking photos or mugshots up to the cloud for it to be indexed. So, that's what I did. I indexed all, about 300,000 booking photos, we have in the last 10 years, and put that into a Recognition Collection. And now I can use the simple tools that AWS gives me to search against that index for any new image that we get in, either from surveillance or an eyewitness, allowing us to get identification within seconds as opposed to having to go through all 700 employees at the Sheriff's Office for the chance that they might have known the person. >> So the old way was essentially grab the footage, and then do the old mugshot kinda scan manually, right? >> Yeah, manually. It wasn't in a book, it was on a website, but essentially, yeah, you had to-- >> I made my point, it sucks. It's hard as hell. >> It's very difficult, very difficult. >> You see on TV all the magic pictures goin' on and the facial recognition, you see on the movies and stuff. How close are we to that right now in terms of that capability? >> Well as far as facial recognition goes it all depends on the data that you have at your fingertips. Right now I have booking photos, so I can identify people with a very high level of certainty if they've been in our jail. If they haven't been in our jail, I obviously don't have much of a chance of identifying them. So, what you see on the TV where it's like, we looked through all the DMV records. We looked through all of the people on the street and all this stuff, We're pretty far off from that because nobody has a catalog of all those images. >> You need to incorporate of all the pictures, all the data. >> Yeah, but when you have the data, it's very simple. >> Right, and it's a lot like scanning for fingerprints. It's like, people would have seen that. You know, you have a fingerprint that you've collected from the crime scene-- >> Chris: Exactly. >> We see it on NCIS or something where you scan through all of that. So, it's pretty similar to that. >> Yeah, it's similar to that, or DNA, or anything like that. If you have the data set, it's very easy to search for those people. >> Yeah. >> So, faces are no different. >> So, how long did it take you to get up and running? Did you have to ingest the photos? How did you do that or? >> So... >> John: They're on a website so you had 'em on digital already. >> From never knowing anything about Amazon Web Services, to a fully-functional prototype of this product took me 30 days. >> John: Wow. >> I had the photos uploaded and the ability to actually run the searches via the API in three. So, extremely easy. Extremely easy. >> So, given the success that you've had with that particular producr, are there other services at AWS that you're looking into? That say, hey, that would actually be really useful for us? >> Yes, a couple that were announced today. First off, the recognition for video. Something that we have a problem with, and I'm hoping recognition for video's going to help with is when you have a surveillance camera, people are moving all the time. Therefore, trying to get a screenshot is going to get a blurry image. We're not getting good results with low-light or low frame rate. But recognition for video is gonna be able to take that movement and still look at the face. Hopefully we're gonna be able to get a better facial identification that way. >> Justin: Okay. >> Another thing that I want to look into is this DeepLens they just announced today. >> John: Awesome. >> That looks extremely promising in the way of me being able to teach it things that we need. A great example of what I would use this for is when a inmate comes in, we take pictures of scars, marks and tattoos. That way, we have a database of all the scars, marks and tattoos on somebody. In case, if they recommit a crime and our eye-witness says, "They had a skull tattoo on their chest" we can then look through all of the people that have a skull tattoo and say, "These are our list of possible suspects." The problem with that is, is that you may enter somebody in as a skull, and you may enter it in as crossbones. Somebody else might put an accidental I in there. So it's very hard to do a text search against that. But if recognition were to come through, or it wouldn't be recognition in this case. If whatever model I built with the DeepLens came through, and said this is a skull and this is the word we use, then I'd be able to index all of those images, quickly pull them up, so we wouldn't even need a picture. We would just need to know, from an eye-witness, that there was a skull on that person's chest. >> John: We had a guest on yesterday from Thorn, which Intel is doing AI for good, and they use essentially, and they didn't say Craigslist, but trying to look for women who were being sold for prostitution, and exploited children and whatnot. And it's all machine learning, and some natural language processing. When you look at the Sage announcement, that looks promising, 'cause they're gonna make, as I was try to democratize the heavy-lifting around all of this, you know, voodoo machine learning. Which, I mean, if you're totally a computer science geek and that's all you do, yeah, you could probably master machine learning. But if you're a practitioner, you're just whipping up. >> Well, yeah, and that's a good example. Because I am not a data scientist. I have no idea how this stuff works in the back end. But being able to utilize, stand on the shoulders of these giants, so to speak, is allowing people like me who A, I only have seven people on my team to devote to this kind of thing. We don't have a lot of resources. We wouldn't be able to get a data scientist. But opening this stuff up to us allows us to build these things, like this facial recognition and other things based on machine learning. And ultimately keep our citizens safe through the work that AWS does in getting this to us. >> Justin: Yeah, and we've been saying at a couple of different interviews so far, that humans don't scale. So these tools that provide the humans that you do have a lot more leverage to get things done. So, we were talking just before, before we started recording that these are tools that assist the humans. You're not replacing the humans with machines that just go oh we're gonna cede all decision-making to you. This is just another tool like being able to fingerprint people and search that. It's one more way of doing the standard policing that you are already doing. >> Exactly, and the tool that I've already created, and any tool I create after that, doesn't ever look to replace our deputies or our detectives. We give them things so that they don't have to do the things like flipping through that book for hours upon hours. They can be out in the field, following the leads, keeping the community safe and apprehending these criminals. >> Do they have on body cameras too? >> Not yet. We are currently looking into body cameras. >> John: That's a trend. They're gonna be instrumented basically like warriors: fully loaded, you know, cameras. >> I tend not to think of it like that. Only because, again, that's a tool that we use. Not to, you know, be that land-warrior so to speak. But more of a-- >> Documentation, I mean, you see 'em on cars when people get pulled over. >> Exactly. >> You've got the evidence. >> It's documentation, just like anything else. It's just that one more tool that helps that deputy, that detective, that police officer get a better idea of the entire situation. >> Maybe I shouldn't have said war. Maybe I'm just into the Twitch culture where they're all geared up with all the gear. Okay, so next question for you is what's your vibe on the show? Obviously you have great experience working at Amazon. You're a success study because you're trying to get a job done, you got some tools and, >> Right. >> making it happen. What's your take this year? What's your vibe of the show? >> I'm really excited about a lot of stuff I'm seeing at the show. A lot of the announcements seemed like they were almost geared towards me. And I know they weren't obviously, but it really felt like announcement after announcement were these things that I'm wanting to go home and immediately start to play with. Anywhere from the stuff that was in the machine learning to the new elastic containers that they are announcing, to the new LAM defunctions that they're talking about. I mean, just all over the board. I'm very excited for all these new things that I get to go home and play with. >> What do you think, Justin? What's your take on the vibe show? >> I find that it's an interesting show. I'm finding it a little different than what I was expecting. This is my first time here at AWS re:Invent. I go to a lot of other trade shows and I was expecting more of like a developer show. Like I'm going to CubeCon next week and that's full of people with spiky hair, and pink shoes, and craziness. >> John: That's the area, by the way. >> Oh that's the area, right. It's a bit more casual than some of the other more businessy sort of conferences. I mean, here I am, wearing a jacket. So I don't feel completely out of place here, but it does feel like it's that blending of business and use cases and the things that you actually get done with it as well as there being people who have the tools that they want to go and build amazing new things with. >> Chris: Right, right, yeah. >> So it's a nice blend, I think. >> Yeah, I've found that it definitely doesn't feel like any other developer conference I've been to. But being in the public sector, I tend to go to the more business-suit conferences. >> John: This is like total developer for you, from a public sector perspective. >> From where I'm coming from, this is very laid back. And extremely... >> Oh yeah. >> But at the same time, it's very like a mixture. Like you said, you see executives mingling with the developers talking about things-- >> John: You're a good example I think of Amazon. First of all, there's the builder thing in the area is supposed to be pretty cool. I was told to go there last night. People came back, it was very much builder, kind of maker culture. They're doing prototypes, it was very developer-oriented. But the public sector, I'm astonished by Amazon's success there because the stuff is easy and low-cost to get in. And public sector is not known for its agility. >> Chris: No. >> I mean, it's music to your ears, right? I mean, if you're in the public sector, you're like, "What? Now I can get it done?" >> Very much so. And one thing I love to share about our solution is the price, right? Because I spent $6 a month for my AWS bill. Right? >> John: Wow. >> That's extremely easy to sell to tax payers, right? It's extremely easy to sell to the higher-ups in government to say, I'm gonna tinker around with this, but even if we solve one crime, we've already seen a return on our investment above and beyond what we expected. >> Yeah. >> No brainer, no brainer. Chris, thanks so much for sharing your story. We really appreciate it. Congratulations on your success and keep in touch with theCube. Welcome to theCube Alumni Club. >> Alright. >> John: For coming out, it's theCube here. Amazon re:Invent, bringing all the action down, all of the success stories, all of the analysis. I'm John Furrier with theCube. More live coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>>On the ground presented by the cube. Here's your host, John furrier. >>Hello everyone. Welcome to the cube on the ground here in Seattle, Washington, the IBM open compute architecture. Some of the day after Docker con. I'm John furrier, the host of the cube. We're here with Renee foster, who's the vice president of technical cloud at IBM. So the customer journey. What is the customer journey because there are many paths to the cloud, certainly open source collaboration, kicking the tires. How is the engagement with customers now changed? What is, what's it like? Take us through an example. >>Okay, well first I want to say it all starts with where the customer is coming into as you said, into the journey. And we have at IBM a cloud capability maturity model and what we do is we actually work with our clients and see do they know anything about a cloud today? And if they do then we go on that path with them in order to explain the technology, understand their use case scenarios. Right? Because you want to come from a solution perspective and not from a product or technology perspective where they are. What their problems are and then all the way to the end of the spectrum where customers have been on the cloud journey for some time and now what they would like to do is they have a multicloud environment. How can they bring that all together in an integrated and our operable, >>so the bigger customers, more advanced have multiple clouds, but the early ones can need to understand the use cases that fit for their business, the application environment. That's cool. Now I've got to ask this kind of a different question. Kind of going back to the client server days, it used to be a very simple formula. You do an audit, you get, you get paid for that, you do a strategy session, you do a POC, and then you go to production over months, maybe a year, depending on how big it is, not the cloud. They want stuff fast. Is it the same concept, that process or is there happening differently, faster? >>Absolutely. It's different and the reason why it's different back to your point is we're now more in an agile environment. Back to your point that customers are leveraging methodologies like scrum and what they would like to do is, you know, back to understanding the use case scenario, be able to come to the market faster. You've heard the terminology disruptive innovation, right? So they want to be able to create new markets or serve markets that they don't currently serve today, so they can't do it the way we've been doing it in the past. But what we found out is design is key. And so what we have done at IBM is we have a Bloomex garage where we have a design methodology and the customers can come in and actually bring in their applications, their ideas, and then we helped them develop that. >>I'm got to ask you, is it, is it, is it chaotic for customers? Because I can only imagine the industry is chaotic. Cloud technology fabric is changing rapidly. The industry formation is changing rapidly. What are some of the patterns that you're seeing that are common amongst all customers? I mean, is it chaotic? Is it much more of their learning? Is it more advanced? What? Can you share any anecdotal color around the patterns that you're seeing in the customer environment? >>Right. I would say that customers are now learning, the lessons learned are now coming now, right? Because they've actually evolved. They're not at the exculpatory, it's exploit exploratory kind of a phase in cloud anymore. So now what they're doing is they're saying, what are the lessons learned that we have? And what we find out is that customers, the sand security infrastructure networking infrastructure, they are just as important as the cloud use cases that designed this. >>We just were at DockerCon for two days and we interviewed for two straight days, wall to wall coverage. And one of the most interesting comments that I heard was from Scott Johnson, the COO of Docker. And I'm like, Oh, this application craze and dev ops has gone mainstream. That's so amazing. Now that we have to operate it now. So now dev ops success has changed it operations, right? And he goes, well, what's your thoughts? He goes, well, certainly no one's going to change their service level agreements. So you see ops now accepting the dev ops ethos, but yet the standards are so high for security and operational, SLS and running the business. Do you see that area? What's your thoughts on this? Because this seems to be a common thread that we're hearing. Okay, I'm sold on dev ops agile and now I've got to run it. What are the customers doing in this area? >>Well, what customers are really doing is they're looking for frameworks and they want to make sure that we look at security, if you will, from, you know, doing everything on the glass, right? Making sure that we have single sign on capabilities all the way to um, identify and grow vulnerabilities within a cloud environment. What are some of the risks and threats? And so they truly come into IBM and saying, let's share with you our concerns. And then we know you have a framework that you can address that. And back to your point, from a dev ops perspective, I mean, it looks at the entire application life cycle and that's why operations now is so entrenched in understanding that we are here to remove the right waste, make it more secure, and have governance around it. >>So final question. What do think about this open cloud architecture summit? What's this all about? Customers like it, they embracing it. Are they interested? >>Yes, yes, yes. All of the above. And I would say because, and back to your point at the beginning with some multicloud environment and customers want to know, I don't want them to lock in. They want to make sure that they remain open open standards and they want to make sure that they have like cloud brokerage. Uh, they want to make sure that as they develop their architectures that you know, they can actually have a platform, uh, you know, environments where they can, um, have that interoperability and it's going to be become more and more better and more and more efficient over time. Open winds, as we say, open source mainstream. Renee, thank you for sharing your insight. I'm John. We here on the ground in Seattle, Washington at the IBM open cloud architecture summit. Thanks for watching.

from Seattle Washington extracting the signal from the noise it's the cube on the ground at OpenStack days Seattle 2015 now here's your host John furrier hello and welcome to Seattle this is a special Q presentation cube on the ground OTG we call it on the ground we go out to the event and talk to all the thought leader I'm John far with the QNX arendelle with SolidFire also the famous cloudcast podcast great to see you again I know good to see John cloudcast is a hot podcast all the thought leaders are listening customers are listening guys are really the signal out there on cloud and also SolidFire growing yes all flash storage you gotta kick in some but they're always keeping tabs on you guys new approach the cloud what's going on with cloud give us the update of OpenStack what's the bottom line I mean is it failing is it winning is it growing is it stalled what do we expect to see ya know so it's at an interesting point because it absolutely is growing but it still has some operational challenges that's the number one thing we're seeing right now is actually just talking to some folks in the hall of common theme is you're still trying to figure how to upgrade it easily still figuring how to operate it easily right and the gentleman from canonical made that made the the reference you know ketchup right everyone has the in green stuff in your kitchen but no one makes their ketchup right and I thought that was fantastic because it's you know everyone's kind of looking for that easy button and it's starting to show up you know you've got you the blue box folks you've got the platform nine folks you've got some interesting startups actually coming into the OpenStack space which shows us there is some definitely some innovation and some new things going on but it's because of the challenges we faced until now the question is the ketchup good I mean is that last ingredient going to make it so that it's not too watery I mean is Cooper Nettie's is containers so truly is it good ketchup and yeah what's the next was the key ingredient well yeah and that's that's a fantastic point because we are at this inflection point where OpenStack was a necessary next that without a doubt we had to get that first step into cloud native applications had to do it but where we're going with Mesa sand cabrion at ease with mesa con going on down the street is that the true next evolution is it like the OpenStack Murano project where you're kind of getting containers built into OpenStack we'll have to wait and see because that anytime you talk to burn a DS anytime you talk Mesa that's is so cutting edge so at this point I'm still Silicon Valley home so OpenStack obviously meme of a sec being dead is kind of falls we saw some things happen last year so it opens dec sv some people aren't going to be there this year that were there last year yes either went out of business or executives have left but yet a lot of dynamics going on palma risks is stepping down as CEO of cloud pivotal cloud foundry cleans 100 million dollars in revenue leather to see those books but but the question now see amazon is doing their thing and but it's really a dynamic market right now so so it's there yes the question is who's doing what in revenue what's the numbers is it all professional surgery and cloud found your hundred million that's a huge number i just is that all professional services do they actually selling product yeah and that's a fantastic moment because the m the cloud cast we saw this consolidation coming for a long time we really started covering OpenStack about four years ago and we were just waiting for at some point you know when we first started there was 15 plus startups in the OpenStack space and there just wasn't enough customers there there wasn't enough revenue there and you just saw this natural consolidation come to a head last year and yeah some are no longer here a lot of them were sucked up into the various vendors and what you're seeing now is especially at the OpenStack summits and like these events here you have a much more mature ecosystem it's almost like the new legacy of you know all of these vendors are there they're all mature they're trying to play in this space they're trying to make money off of it and time will tell and then it's an evolution anybody brought to point you right over the easy button what is that easy button now is it just deployment in a box is it like just give me prefabricated OpenStack is it tooling is it management we're hearing a lot of different things yeah and I think time will tell but I do think the preference we're seeing in our customers is definitely moving towards that easy button as a service if you will of some of those companies where the operations have open stack because it hasn't gotten easier at the same level of the adoption people are looking to what is that next step if the operations were to get easier i don't think we'd see that market be as popular as it is right now is it is the market still in early adopter that's the thing that's on my mind has it crossed over yet I think it has I think we're at least in OpenStack context where we're beyond early adopter phase there is a lot of folks out there using it but what's interesting is is to kind of go back around to the previous question a little bit the district's taken off like I think they probably should have most of the large customers I've seen are still roll your own and it is still that staff of Engineers really keeping up and running and again because the what was the value-added the distributions we're starting to see the Red Hat distribution get a you know to that point where we're getting good adoption of that we're seeing the marantis one with all the fuel work they're doing we're getting good adoption with that so the question on adoption is it's either not Oh people aren't aware of it or the product sucks so is it mix of both is it awareness issue or is it a product issue oh that's a great question i think it's a it's a question of differentiation I don't know that it's differentiated enough at this point in time it's it's you know if you go build your own versus you farm it out if you will completely big differences right but it's almost like shades who could be fear yeah it could be a third dimension you could absolutely be fear well that's the thing you've been the issue solution of operators we hear a lot of an operator so the question is if I'm an engineering team I might want to have my tire kickers go through the motions and that's not necessary approval con so that's just core competency building so that fear could be an issue of cork opera so maybe they're aware of it maybe the products decent maybe it's just that their team's not core enough to do that yeah when it comes to the folks in house um yeah again going back to the easy button what we really need in the opposite community is that POC in a box and that's probably there today don't get me wrong but but everyone sees that POC in a box but then they're afraid of does that mean can I scale it out to 100 nodes a thousand nodes and will it be as easy and it's almost gotten a reputation now of know and and so how do we get it to grow to 100 notes thousand nodes whatever you want and do the business value out of I don't need a big staff of people and how do I get you know the underlying infrastructure to be simpler at the end of the day a little cloud cast we got going on here I mean I think in my opinion my opinion I think it's just a matter of the customers having the ability to execute and have the total cost of ownership equation nailed I think there's still this gray area of there's no straight and narrow on on the execution what's my cost i'm gonna be locked into that vendor what's going to be the lock-in oh my god yeah the shark fin the iceberg whatever metaphor you want to use yes no is that reading is their visibility on the ownership side because downstream what's the impact well it what's interesting there too is the biggest thing I'm seeing is for again from an operation standpoint how do we make this as simple as possible because what happens is you have this weird convoluted thing if you have the whole legacy apps versus cloud native apps and you take that put it aside for a second rank if we take that and put it aside well what what do they really want doesn't matter what kind of app it is well the developers want API driven infrastructure you can call it cloud but the end of the day it's it's an infrastructure that's driven by api's and then as simple as possible you know being able to really guarantee the uptime guarantee the performance and that's where OpenStack at times it gets a bad rap I don't and I'm not even necessarily agreeing with that might not even be worthy of a bad rap in that agreed absolutely because there are known customers out there that are doing it and doing it very well but again is how do you get beyond that room well Stu miniman I'm Wikibon and Brian Grace Lee and now Wikibon and and I Robin conversation about this and I think Dave vellante even chimed in and we were debating was up across the board different opinions yes what the hell is cloud native app mean you know is it is amazonas cloudy of course they're cloud Facebook a cloud native app okay but what does that mean for enterprises that mean that the app was built for just API so to me it just doesn't seen it's been a lot of there's not a lot of cloud native apps out there right now or are now what is a cloud yeah and and it's a fantastic question and my opinion have always been you know there's there was this kind of trend in the industry how do I take these legacy apps and make them cloud native well the simple answer is you don't the way I look at it is it's really more of like a star of the old build the new mentality you you want to maintain those legacy systems but the same time as those kind of age off the books if you will you're going to have to build a new infrastructure so if you're going to build new infrastructure you might as well build it the new way but that has to happen over time that is not something that happens you know most businesses out there today they don't do technology for the sake of technology there has to be a business reason and a business driver if that legacy app is still out there making them money they're going to keep using I not untrue to your point it's you cloud native is the future the soil asked of you know yeah yield some fruit on that tree if you will so that's going to take some time exactly so so you know I very much see this as a longer tail that most people would like without a doubt it is just a matter of how are we going to get their long-term and yeah there's lots of terminology and the cloud native and what does that mean big picture and architectural II that's all solved it's getting the businesses to rewrite the apps and really give them Aaron we're in Seattle right now on the ground so quickly describe to the folks out there what's the vibe here what's it like a Seattle it's been it is so it's been interesting I've been in here since tuesday now and i've done lenox con cloudstack day OpenStack day and mesa con all in the in three days now so it's what did you learn yeah it's been a world in 30-second I know yeah so it the biggest thing is there is still a lot of confusion in yes people are starting to get legacy versus cloud native but when it comes to which technologies do i use why would i use them what are the actual business drivers to actually go adopt some of these new technologies massive amounts of confusion around that and that's probably the biggest reason for you know trying to get knowledge out in the industry without a doubt okay we are OTG on the ground this is the cube in Seattle I'm John for thanks for watching and all the coverage here at OpenStack innovation day thanks for watching

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back everyone to The Cubes coverage here in Seattle, Washington. For AWS's Marketplace Seller Conference. It's the big news within the Amazon partner network, combining with marketplace, forming the Amazon partner organization. Part of a big reorg as they grow to the next level, NextGen cloud, mid-game on the chessboard. Cube's got it covered. I'm John Furry, your host at Cube. Great guests here from Data bricks. Both cube alumni's. Jack Anderson, GM and VP of the Databricks partnership team for AWS. You handle that relationship and Joel Minick vice president of product and partner marketing. You guys have the keys to the kingdom with Databricks and AWS. Thanks for joining. Good to see you again. >> Thanks for having us back. >> Yeah, John, great to be here. >> So I feel like we're at Reinvent 2013. Small event, no stage, but there's a real shift happening with procurement. Obviously it's a no brainer on the micro, you know, people should be buying online. Self-service, Cloud Scale. But Amazon's got billions being sold through their marketplace. They've reorganized their partner network. You can see kind of what's going on. They've kind of figured it out. Like let's put everything together and simplify and make it less of a website, marketplace. Merge our partner organizations, have more synergy and frictionless experiences so everyone can make more money and customer's are going to be happier. >> Yeah, that's right. >> I mean, you're running relationship. You're in the middle of it. >> Well, Amazon's mental model here is that they want the world's best ISVs to operate on AWS so that we can collaborate and co architect on behalf of customers. And that's exactly what the APO and marketplace allow us to do, is to work with Amazon on these really, you know, unique use cases. >> You know, I interviewed Ali many times over the years. I remember many years ago, maybe six, seven years ago, we were talking. He's like, "we're all in on AWS." Obviously now the success of Databricks, you've got multiple clouds, see that. Customers have choice. But I remember the strategy early on. It was like, we're going to be deep. So this is, speaks volumes to the relationship you have. Years. Jack, take us through the relationship that Databricks has with AWS from a partner perspective. Joel, and from a product perspective. Because it's not like you guys are Johnny come lately, new to the scene. >> Right. >> You've been there, almost president creation of this wave. What's the relationship and how does it relate to what's going on today? >> So most people may not know that Databricks was born on AWS. We actually did our first $100 million of revenue on Amazon. And today we're obviously available on multiple clouds. But we're very fond of our Amazon relationship. And when you look at what the APN allows us to do, you know, we're able to expand our reach and co-sell with Amazon, and marketplace broadens our reach. And so, we think of marketplace in three different aspects. We've got the marketplace private offer business, which we've been doing for a number of years. Matter of fact, we were driving well over a hundred percent year over year growth in private offers. And we have a nine figure business. So it's a very significant business. And when a customer uses a private offer, that private offer counts against their private pricing agreement with AWS. So they get pricing power against their private pricing. So it's really important it goes on their Amazon bill. In may we launched our pay as you go, on demand offering. And in five short months, we have well over a thousand subscribers. And what this does, is it really reduces the barriers to entry. It's low friction. So anybody in an enterprise or startup or public sector company can start to use Databricks on AWS, in a consumption based model, and have it go against their monthly bill. And so we see customers, you know, doing rapid experimentation, pilots, POCs. They're really learning the value of that first, use case. And then we see rapid use case expansion. And the third aspect is the consulting partner, private offer, CPPO. Super important in how we involve our partner ecosystem of our consulting partners and our resellers that are able to work with Databricks on behalf of customers. >> So you got the big contracts with the private offer. You got the product market fit, kind of people iterating with data, coming in with the buyers you get. And obviously the integration piece all fitting in there. >> Exactly. >> Okay, so those are the offers, that's current, what's in marketplace today. Is that the products... What are people buying? >> Yeah. >> I mean, I guess what's the... Joel, what are people buying in the marketplace? And what does it mean for them? >> So fundamentally what they're buying is the ability to take silos out of their organization. And that is the problem that Databricks is out there to solve. Which is, when you look across your data landscape today, you've got unstructured data, you've got structured data, you've got real time streaming data. And your teams are trying to use all of this data to solve really complicated problems. And as Databricks, as the Lakehouse Company, what we're helping customers do is, how do they get into the new world? How do they move to a place where they can use all of that data across all of their teams? And so we allow them to begin to find, through the marketplace, those rapid adoption use cases where they can get rid of these data warehousing, data lake silos they've had in the past. Get their unstructured and structured data onto one data platform, an open data platform, that is no longer adherent to any proprietary formats and standards and something they can, very much, very easily, integrate into the rest of their data environment. Apply one common data governance layer on top of that. So that from the time they ingest that data, to the time they use that data, to the time they share that data, inside and outside of their organization, they know exactly how it's flowing. They know where it came from. They know who's using it. They know who has access to it. They know how it's changing. And then with that common data platform, with that common governance solution, they'd being able to bring all of those use cases together. Across their real time streaming, their data engineering, their BI, their AI. All of their teams working on one set of data. And that lets them move really, really fast. And it also lets them solve challenges they just couldn't solve before. A good example of this, you know, one of the world's now largest data streaming platforms runs on Databricks with AWS. And if you think about what does it take to set that up? Well, they've got all this customer data that was historically inside of data warehouses. That they have to understand who their customers are. They have all this unstructured data, they've built their data science model, so they can do the right kinds of recommendation engines and forecasting around. And then they've got all this streaming data going back and forth between click stream data, from what the customers are doing with their platform and the recommendations they want to push back out. And if those teams were all working in individual silos, building these kinds of platforms would be extraordinarily slow and complex. But by building it on Databricks, they were able to release it in record time and have grown at a record pace to now be the number one platform. >> And this product, it's impacting product development. >> Absolutely. >> I mean, this is like the difference between lagging months of product development, to like days. >> Yes. >> Pretty much what you're getting at. >> Yes. >> So total agility. >> Mm-hmm. >> I got that. Okay, now, I'm a customer I want to buy in the marketplace, but you got direct Salesforce up there. So how do you guys look at this? Is there channel conflict? Are there comp programs? Because one of the things I heard today in on the stage from AWS's leadership, Chris, was up there speaking, and Mona was, "Hey, he's a CRO conference chief revenue officer" conversation. Which means someone's getting compensated. So, if I'm the sales rep at Databricks, what's my motion to the customer? Do I get paid? Does Amazon sell it? Take us through that. Is there channel conflict? Or, how do you handle it? >> Well, I'd add what Joel just talked about with, you know, with the solution, the value of the solution our entire offering is available on AWS marketplace. So it's not a subset, it's the entire Data Bricks offering. And- >> The flagship, all the, the top stuff. >> Everything, the flagship, the complete offering. So it's not segmented. It's not a sub segment. >> Okay. >> It's, you know, you can use all of our different offerings. Now when it comes to seller compensation, we view this two different ways, right? One is that AWS is also incented, right? Versus selling a native service to recommend Databricks for the right situation. Same thing with Databricks, our sales force wants to do the right thing for the customer. If the customer wants to use marketplace as their procurement vehicle. And that really helps customers because if you get Databricks and five other ISVs together, and let's say each ISV is spending, you're spending a million dollars. You have $5 million of spend. You put that spend through the flywheel with AWS marketplace, and then you can use that in your negotiations with AWS to get better pricing overall. So that's how we view it. >> So customers are driving. This sounds like. >> Correct. For sure. >> So they're looking at this as saying, Hey, I'm going to just get purchasing power with all my relationships. Because it's a solution architectural market, right? >> Yeah. It makes sense. Because if most customers will have a primary and secondary cloud provider. If they can consolidate, you know, multiple ISV spend through that same primary provider, you get pricing power. >> Okay, Joel, we're going to date ourselves. At least I will. So back in the old days, (group laughter) It used to be, do a Barney deal with someone, Hey, let's go to market together. You got to get paper, you do a biz dev deal. And then you got to say, okay, now let's coordinate our sales teams, a lot of moving parts. So what you're getting at here is that the alternative for Databricks, or any company is, to go find those partners and do deals, versus now Amazon is the center point for the customer. So you can still do those joint deals, but this seems to be flipping the script a little bit. >> Well, it is, but we still have vars and consulting partners that are doing implementation work. Very valuable work, advisory work, that can actually work with marketplace through the CPPO offering. So the marketplace allows multiple ways to procure your solution. >> So it doesn't change your business structure. It just makes it more efficient. >> That's correct. >> That's a great way to say it. >> Yeah, that's great. >> Okay. So, that's it. So that's just makes it more efficient. So you guys are actually incented to point customers to the marketplace. >> Yes. >> Absolutely. >> Economically. >> Economically, it's the right thing to do for the customer. It's the right thing to do for our relationship with Amazon. Especially when it comes back to co-selling, right? Because Amazon now is leaning in with ISVs and making recommendations for, you know, an ISV solution. And our teams are working backwards from those use cases, you know, to collaborate and land them. >> Yeah. I want to get that out there. Go ahead, Joel. >> So one of the other things I might add to that too, you know, and why this is advantageous for companies like Databricks to work through the marketplace. Is it makes it so much easier for customers to deploy a solution. It's very, literally, one click through the marketplace to get Databricks stood up inside of your environment. And so if you're looking at how do I help customers most rapidly adopt these solutions in the AWS cloud, the marketplace is a fantastic accelerator to that. >> You know, it's interesting. I want to bring this up and get your reaction to it because to me, I think this is the future of procurement. So from a procurement standpoint, I mean, again, dating myself, EDI back in the old days, you know, all that craziness. Now this is all the internet, basically through the console. I get the infrastructure side, you know, spin up and provision some servers, all been good. You guys have played well there in the marketplace. But now as we get into more of what I call the business apps, and they brought this up on stage. A little nuanced. Most enterprises aren't yet there of integrating tech, on the business apps, into the stack. This is where I think you guys are a use case of success where you guys have been successful with data integration. It's an integrators dilemma, not an innovator's dilemma. So like, I want to integrate. So now I have integration points with Databricks, but I want to put an app in there. I want to provision an application, but it has to be built. It's not, you don't buy it. You build, you got to build stuff. And this is the nuance. What's your reaction to that? Am I getting this right? Or am I off because, no one's going to be buying software like they used to. They buy software to integrate it. >> Yeah, no- >> Because everything's integrated. >> I think AWS has done a great job at creating a partner ecosystem, right? To give customers the right tools for the right jobs. And those might be with third parties. Databricks is doing the same thing with our partner connect program, right? We've got customer partners like Five Tran and DBT that, you know, augment and enhance our platform. And so you're looking at multi ISV architectures and all of that can be procured through the AWS marketplace. >> Yeah. It's almost like, you know, bundling and un bundling. I was talking about this with, with Dave Alante about Supercloud. Which is why wouldn't a customer want the best solution in their architecture? Period. In its class. If someone's got API security or an API gateway. Well, you know, I don't want to be forced to buy something because it's part of a suite. And that's where you see things get sub optimized. Where someone dominates a category and they have, oh, you got to buy my version of this. >> Joel and I were talking, we were actually saying, what's really important about Databricks, is that customers control the data, right? You want to comment on that? >> Yeah. I was going to say, you know, what you're pushing on there, we think is extraordinarily, you know, the way the market is going to go. Is that customers want a lot of control over how they build their data stack. And everyone's unique in what tools are the right ones for them. And so one of the, you know, philosophically, I think, really strong places, Databricks and AWS have lined up, is we both take an approach that you should be able to have maximum flexibility on the platform. And as we think about the Lakehouse, one thing we've always been extremely committed to, as a company, is building the data platform on an open foundation. And we do that primarily through Delta Lake and making sure that, to Jack's point, with Databricks, the data is always in your control. And then it's always stored in a completely open format. And that is one of the things that's allowed Databricks to have the breadth of integrations that it has with all the other data tools out there. Because you're not tied into any proprietary format, but instead are able to take advantage of all the innovation that's happening out there in the open source ecosystem. >> When you see other solutions out there that aren't as open as you guys, you guys are very open by the way, we love that too. We think that's a great strategy, but what am I foreclosing if I go with something else that's not as open? What's the customer's downside as you think about what's around the corner in the industry? Because if you believe it's going to be open, open source, which I think open source software is the software industry, and integration is a big deal. Because software's going to be plentiful. >> Sure. >> Let's face it. It's a good time to be in software business. But Cloud's booming. So what's the downside, from your Databricks perspective? You see a buyer clicking on Databricks versus that alternative. What's potentially should they be a nervous about, down the road, if they go with a more proprietary or locked in approach? >> Yeah. >> Well, I think the challenge with proprietary ecosystems is you become beholden to the ability of that provider to both build relationships and convince other vendors that they should invest in that format. But you're also, then, beholden to the pace at which that provider is able to innovate. >> Mm-hmm. >> And I think we've seen lots of times over history where, you know, a proprietary format may run ahead, for a while, on a lot of innovation. But as that market control begins to solidify, that desire to innovate begins to degrade. Whereas in the open formats- >> So extract rents versus innovation. (John laughs) >> Exactly. Yeah, exactly. >> I'll say it. >> But in the open world, you know, you have to continue to innovate. >> Yeah. >> And the open source world is always innovating. If you look at the last 10 to 15 years, I challenge you to find, you know, an example where the innovation in the data and AI world is not coming from open source. And so by investing in open ecosystems, that means you are always going to be at the forefront of what is the latest. >> You know, again, not to date myself again, but you look back at the eighties and nineties, the protocol stacked with proprietary. >> Yeah. >> You know, SNA and IBM, deck net was digital. You know the rest. And then TCPIP was part of the open systems interconnect. >> Mm-hmm. >> Revolutionary (indistinct) a big part of that, as well as my school did. And so like, you know, that was, but it didn't standardize the whole stack. It stopped at IP and TCP. >> Yeah. >> But that helped inter operate, that created a nice defacto. So this is a big part of this mid game. I call it the chessboard, you know, you got opening game and mid-game, then you get the end game. You're not there at the end game yet at Cloud. But Cloud- >> There's, always some form of lock in, right? Andy Jazzy will address it, you know, when making a decision. But if you're going to make a decision you want to reduce- You don't want to be limited, right? So I would advise a customer that there could be limitations with a proprietary architecture. And if you look at what every customer's trying to become right now, is an AI driven business, right? And so it has to do with, can you get that data out of silos? Can you organize it and secure it? And then can you work with data scientists to feed those models? >> Yeah. >> In a very consistent manner. And so the tools of tomorrow will, to Joel's point, will be open and we want interoperability with those tools. >> And choice is a matter too. And I would say that, you know, the argument for why I think Amazon is not as locked in as maybe some other clouds, is that they have to compete directly too. Redshift competes directly with a lot of other stuff. But they can't play the bundling game because the customers are getting savvy to the fact that if you try to bundle an inferior product with something else, it may not work great at all. And they're going to be, they're onto it. This is the- >> To Amazon's credit by having these solutions that may compete with native services in marketplace, they are providing customers with choice, low price- >> And access to the core value. Which is the hardware- >> Exactly. >> Which is their platform. Okay. So I want to get you guys thought on something else I see emerging. This is, again, kind of Cube rumination moment. So on stage, Chris unpacked a lot of stuff. I mean this marketplace, they're touching a lot of hot buttons here, you know, pricing, compensation, workflows, services behind the curtain. And one of those things he mentioned was, they talk about resellers or channel partners, depending upon what you talk about. We believe, Dave and I believe on the Cube, that the entire indirect sales channel of the industry is going to be disrupted radically. Because those players were selling hardware in the old days and software. That game is going to change. You mentioned you guys have a program, let me get your thoughts on this. We believe that once this gets set up, they can play in this game and bring their services in. Which means that the old reseller channels are going to be rewritten. They're going to be refactored with this new kinds of access. Because you've got scale, you've got money and you've got product. And you got customers coming into the marketplace. So if you're like a reseller that sold computers to data centers or software, you know, a value added reseller or VAB or business. >> You've got to evolve. >> You got to, you got to be here. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> How are you guys working with those partners? Because you say you have a product in your marketplace there. How do I make money if I'm a reseller with Databricks, with Amazon? Take me through that use case. >> Well I'll let Joel comment, but I think it's pretty straightforward, right? Customers need expertise. They need knowhow. When we're seeing customers do mass migrations to the cloud or Hadoop specific migrations or data transformation implementations. They need expertise from consulting and SI partners. If those consulting and SI partners happen to resell the solution as well. Well, that's another aspect of their business. But I really think it is the expertise that the partners bring to help customers get outcomes. >> Joel, channel big opportunity for Amazon to reimagine this. >> For sure. Yeah. And I think, you know, to your comment about how do resellers take advantage of that, I think what Jack was pushing on is spot on. Which is, it's becoming more and more about the expertise you bring to the table. And not just transacting the software. But now actually helping customers make the right choices. And we're seeing, you know, both SIs begin to be able to resell solutions and finding a lot of opportunity in that. >> Yeah. And I think we're seeing traditional resellers begin to move into that SI model as well. And that's going to be the evolution that this goes. >> At the end of the day, it's about services, right? >> For sure. Yeah. >> I mean... >> You've got a great service. You're going to have high gross profits. >> Yeah >> Managed service provider business is alive and well, right? Because there are a number of customers that want that type of a service. >> I think that's going to be a really hot, hot button for you guys. I think being the way you guys are open, this channel, partner services model coming in, to the fold, really kind of makes for kind of that Supercloud like experience, where you guys now have an ecosystem. And that's my next question. You guys have an ecosystem going on, within Databricks. >> For sure. >> On top of this ecosystem. How does that work? This is kind of like, hasn't been written up in business school and case studies yet. This is new. What is this? >> I think, you know, what it comes down to is, you're seeing ecosystems begin to evolve around the data platforms. And that's going to be one of the big, kind of, new horizons for us as we think about what drives ecosystems. It's going to be around, well, what's the data platform that I'm using? And then all the tools that have to encircle that to get my business done. And so I think there's, you know, absolutely ecosystems inside of the AWS business on all of AWS's services, across data analytics and AI. And then to your point, you are seeing ecosystems now arise around Databricks in its Lakehouse platform as well. As customers are looking at well, if I'm standing these Lakehouses up and I'm beginning to invest in this, then I need a whole set of tools that help me get that done as well. >> I mean you think about ecosystem theory, we're living a whole nother dream. And I'm not kidding. It hasn't yet been written up and for business school case studies is that, we're now in a whole nother connective tissue, ecology thing happening. Where you have dependencies and value proposition. Economics, connectedness. So you have relationships in these ecosystems. >> And I think one of the great things about the relationships with these ecosystems, is that there's a high degree of overlap. >> Yeah. >> So you're seeing that, you know, the way that the cloud business is evolving, the ecosystem partners of Databricks, are the same ecosystem partners of AWS. And so as you build these platforms out into the cloud, you're able to really take advantage of best of breed, the broadest set of solutions out there for you. >> Joel, Jack, I love it because you know what it means? The best ecosystem will win, if you keep it open. >> Sure, sure. >> You can see everything. If you're going to do it in the dark, you know, you don't know the outcome. I mean, this is really kind of what we're talking about. >> And John, can I just add that when I was at Amazon, we had a theory that there's buyers and builders, right? There's very innovative companies that want to build things themselves. We're seeing now that that builders want to buy a platform. Right? >> Yeah. >> And so there's a platform decision being made and that ecosystem is going to evolve around the platform. >> Yeah, and I totally agree. And the word innovation gets kicked around. That's why, you know, when we had our Supercloud panel, it was called the innovators dilemma, with a slash through it, called the integrater's dilemma. Innovation is the digital transformation. So- >> Absolutely. >> Like that becomes cliche in a way, but it really becomes more of a, are you open? Are you integrating? If APIs are connective tissue, what's automation, what's the service messages look like? I mean, a whole nother set of, kind of thinking, goes on in these new ecosystems and these new products. >> And that thinking is, has been born in Delta Sharing, right? So the idea that you can have a multi-cloud implementation of Databricks, and actually share data between those two different clouds, that is the next layer on top of the native cloud solution. >> Well, Databricks has done a good job of building on top of the goodness of, and the CapEx gift from AWS. But you guys have done a great job taking that building differentiation into the product. You guys have great customer base, great growing ecosystem. And again, I think a shining example of what every enterprise is going to do. Build on top of something, operating model, get that operating model, driving revenue. >> Mm-hmm. >> Yeah. >> Whether, you're Goldman Sachs or capital one or XYZ corporation. >> S and P global, NASDAQ. >> Yeah. >> We've got, you know, the biggest verticals in the world are solving tough problems with Databricks. I think we'd be remiss because if Ali was here, he would really want to thank Amazon for all of the investments across all of the different functions. Whether it's the relationship we have with our engineering and service teams. Our marketing teams, you know, product development. And we're going to be at Reinvent. A big presence at Reinvent. We're looking forward to seeing you there, again. >> Yeah. We'll see you guys there. Yeah. Again, good ecosystem. I love the ecosystem evolutions happening. This NextGen Cloud is here. We're seeing this evolve, kind of new economics, new value propositions kind of scaling up. Producing more. So you guys are doing a great job. Thanks for coming on the Cube and taking the time. Joel, great to see you at the check. >> Thanks for having us, John. >> Okay. Cube coverage here. The world's changing as APN comes together with the marketplace for a new partner organization at Amazon web services. The Cube's got it covered. This should be a very big, growing ecosystem as this continues. Billions of being sold through the marketplace. And of course the buyers are happy as well. So we've got it all covered. I'm John Furry. your host of the cube. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat electronic music) >> Welcome back to everyone, to "theCUBE's" coverage here in Seattle, Washington for Amazon Web Services Partner Marketplace Seller Conference, combining their partner network with Marketplace forming a new organization called AWS Partner Organization. This is "theCUBE" coverage. I'm John Furrier, your host. We've got great "Cube" alumni here from Zscaler, a very successful cloud company doing great work. Stelio D'Alo, senior director of cloud business development and Raveesh Chugh, VP of Public Cloud Partnerships at Zscaler. Welcome back to "theCUBE." Good to see you guys. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Thanks having us, John. >> So we've been doing a lot of coverage of Zscaler, what a great success story. I mean, the numbers are great. The business performance, it's in the top two, three, one, two, three in all metrics on public companies, SaaS. So you guys, check. Good job. >> Yes, thank you. >> So you guys have done a good job. Now you're here, selling through the Marketplace. You guys are a world class performing company in cloud SaaS, so you're in the front lines doing well. Now, Marketplace is a procurement front end opportunity for people to buy. Hey, self-service, buy and put things together. Sounds novel, what a great concept. Great cloud life. >> Yes. >> You guys are participating and now sellers are coming together. The merger of the public, the partner network with Marketplace. It feels like this is a second act for AWS to go to the next level. They got their training wheels done with partners. Now they're going to the next level. What do you guys think about this? >> Well, I think you're right, John. I think it is very much something that is in keeping with the way AWS does business. Very Amazonian, they're working back from the customer. What we're seeing is, our customers and in general, the market is gravitating towards purchase mechanisms and route to market that just are lower friction. So in the same way that companies are going through their digital transformations now, really modernizing the way they host applications and they reach the internet. They're also modernizing on the purchasing side, which is super exciting, because we're all motivated to help customers with that agility. >> You know, it's fun to watch and again I'm being really candid and props to you guys as a company. Now, everyone else is kind of following that. Okay, lift and shift, check, doing some things. Now they go, whoa, I can really build on this. People are building their own apps for their companies. Going to build their own stuff. They're going to use piece parts. They're going to put it together in a really scalable way. That's the new normal. Okay, so now they go okay, I'm going to just buy through the market, I get purchasing power. So you guys have been a real leader with AWS. Can you share what you guys are doing in the Marketplace? I think you guys are a nice example of how to execute the Marketplace. Take us through. What are you guys offering there? What's the contract look like? Is it multi-pronged? What's the approach? What do customers get if they go to the marketplace for Zscaler? >> Yeah, so it's been a very exciting story and been a very pleasing one for us with AWS marketplace. We see a huge growth potentially. There are more than 350,000 customers that are actively buying through Marketplace today. We expect that number to grow to around a million customers by the next, I would say, five to ten years and we want to be part of this wave. We see AWS Marketplace to be a channel where not only our resalers or our channel partners can come and transact, but also our GSIs like Accenture want to transact through this channel. We are doing a lot, in terms of bringing new customers through Marketplace, who want to not only close their deals, but close it in the next few hours. That's the beauty of Marketplace, the agility, the flexibility in terms of pricing that it provides to ISVs like us. If a customer wants to delay their payments by a couple of quarters, Marketplace supports that. If a customer wants to do monthly payments, Marketplace supports that. We are seeing lot of customers, big customers, that have signed EDPs, enterprise discount plans with AWS. These are multi-year cloud commits coming to us and saying we can retire our EDPs with AWS if we transact your solution through AWS Marketplace. So what we have done, as of today, we have all of our production services enabled through AWS Marketplace. What that means for customers, they can now retire their EDPs by buying Zscaler products through AWS Marketplace and in return get the full benefit of maximizing their EDP commits with AWS. >> So you guys are fully committed, no toe on the water, as we heard. You guys are all in. >> Absolutely, that's exactly the way to put it. We're all in, all of our solutions are available in the marketplace. As you mentioned, we're a SaaS provider. So we're one of the vendors in the Marketplace that have SaaS solutions. So unlike a lot of customers and even the market in general, associate the Marketplace for historical reasons, the way it started with a lot of monthly subscriptions and just dipping your toe in it from a consumer perspective. Whereas we're doing multimillion dollar, multi-year SaaS contracts. So the most complicated kinds of transactions you'd normally associate with enterprise software, we're doing in very low friction ways. >> On the Zscaler side going in low friction. >> Yep, yeah, that's right. >> How about the customer experience? >> So it is primarily the the customer that experiences. >> Driving it? >> Yeah, they're driving it and it's because rather than traditional methods of going through paperwork, purchase orders- >> What are some of the things that customers are saying about this, bcause I see two benefits, I'll say that. The friction, it's a channel, okay, for Zscaler. Let's be clear, but now you have a customer who's got a lot of Amazon. They're a trusted partner too. So why wouldn't they want to have one point of contact to use their purchasing power and you guys are okay with that. >> We're absolutely okay with it. The reason being, we're still doing the transaction and we can do the transaction with our... We're a channel first company, so that's another important distinction of how people tend to think of the Marketplace. We go through channel. A lot of our transactions are with traditional channel partners and you'd be surprised the kinds of, even the Telcos, carrier providers, are starting to embrace Marketplace. So from a customer perspective, it's less paperwork, less legal work. >> Yeah, I'd love to get your reaction to something, because I think this highlights to me what we've been reporting on with "theCUBE" with super cloud and other trends that are different in a good way. Taking it to the next level and that is that if you look at Zscaler, SaaS, SaaS is self-service, the scale, there's efficiencies. Marketplace first started out as a self-service catalog, a website, you know, click and choose, but now it's a different. He calls it a supply chain, like the CICD pipeline of buying software. He mentions that, there's also services. He put the Channel partners can come in. The GSIs, global system integrators can come in. So it's more than just a catalog now. It's kind of self-service procurement more than it is just a catalog of buy stuff. >> Yes, so yeah, I feel CEOs, CSOs of today should understand what Marketplace brings to the bear in terms of different kinds of services or Zscaler solutions that they can acquire through Marketplace and other ISV solutions, for that matter. I feel like we are at a point, after the pandemic, where there'll be a lot of digital exploration and companies can do more in terms of not just Marketplace, but also including the channel partners as part of deals. So you talked about channel conflict. AWS addressed this by bringing a program called CPPO in the picture, Channel Partner Private Offers. What that does is, we are not only bringing all our channel partners into deals. For renewals as well, they're the partner of record and they get paid alongside with the customer. So AWS does all the heavy lifting, in terms of disbursements of payments to us, to the channel partner, so it's a win-win situation for all. >> I mean, private offers and co-sale has been very popular. >> It has been, and that is our bread and butter in the Marketplace. Again, we do primarily three year contracts and so private offers work super well. A nice thing for us as a vendor is it provides a great amount of flexibility. Private Offer gives you a lot of optionality, in terms of how the constructs of the deal and whether or not you're working with a partner, how the partner is utilizing as well to resell to the end user. So, we've always talked about AWS giving IT agility. This gives purchasing and finance business agility. >> Yeah, and I think this comes up a lot. I just noticed this happening a lot more, where you see dedicated sessions, not just on DevOps and all the goodies of the cloud, financial strategy. >> Yeah. >> Seeing a lot more conversation around how to operationalize the business transactions in the cloud. >> Absolutely. >> This is the new, I mean it's not new, it's been thrown around, but not at a tech conference. You don't see that. So I got to ask you guys, what's the message to the CISOs and executives watching the business people about Zscaler in the Marketplace? What should they be looking at? What is the pitch for Zscaler for the Marketplace buyer? >> So I would say that we are a cloud-delivered network security service. We have been in this game for more than a decade. We have years of early head start with lots of features and functionality versus our competitors. If customers were to move into AWS Cloud, they can get rid of their next-gen firewalls and just have all the traffic routed through our Zscaler internet access and use Zscaler private access for accessing their private applications. We feel we have done everything in our capacity, in terms of enabling customers through Marketplace and will continue to participate in more features and functionality that Marketplace has to offer. We would like these customers to take advantage of their EDPs as well as their retirement and spend for the multi-commit through AWS Marketplace. Learn about what we have to offer and how we can really expedite the motion for them, if they want to procure our solutions through Marketplace >> You know, we're seeing an ability for them to get more creative, more progressive in terms of the purchasing. We're also doing, we're really excited about the ability to serve multiple markets. So we've had an immense amount of success in commercial. We also are seeing increasing amount of public sector, US federal government agencies that want to procure this way as well for the same reasons. So there's a lot of innovation going on. >> So you have the FedRAMP going on, you got all those certifications. >> Exactly right. So we are the first cloud-native solution to provide IL5 ATO, as well as FedRAMP pie and we make that all available, GSA schedule pricing through the AWS Marketplace, again through FSIs and other resellers. >> Public private partnerships have been a big factor, having that span of capability. I got to ask you about, this is a cool conversation, because now you're like, okay, I'm selling through the Marketplace. Companies themselves are changing how they operate. They don't just buy software that we used to use. So general purpose, bundled stuff. Oh yeah, I'm buying this product, because this has got a great solution and I have to get forced to use this firewall, because I bought this over here. That's not how companies are architecting and developing their businesses. It's no longer buying IT. They're building their company digitally. They have to be the application. So they're not sitting around, saying hey, can I get a solution? They're building and architecting their solution. This is kind of like the new enterprise that no one's talking about. They kind of, got to do their own work. >> Yes. >> There's no general purpose solution that maps every company. So they got to pick the best piece parts and integrate them. >> Yes and I feel- >> Do you guys agree with that? >> Yeah, I agree with that and customers don't want to go for point solutions anymore. They want to go with a platform approach. They want go with a vendor that can not only cut down their vendors from multi-dozens to maybe a dozen or less and that's where, you know, we kind of have pivoted to the platform-centric approach, where we not only help customers with Cloud Network Security, but we also help customers with Cloud Native Application Protection Platform that we just recently launched. It's going by the name of the different elements, including Cloud Security Posture Management, Cloud Identity Event Management and so we are continuously doing more and more on the configuration and vulnerability side space. So if a customer has an AWS S3 bucket that is opened it can be detected and can be remediated. So all of those proactive steps we are taking, in terms of enhancing our portfolio, but we have come a long way as a company, as a platform that we have evolved in the Marketplace. >> What's the hottest product? >> The hottest product? >> In Marketplace right now. >> Well, the fastest growing products include our digital experience products and we have new Cloud Protection. So we've got Posture and Workload Protection as well and those are the fastest growing. For AWS customers a strong affinity also for ZPA, which provides you zero trust access to your workloads on AWS. So those are all the most popular in Marketplace. >> Yeah. >> So I would like to add that we recently launched and this has been a few years, a couple of years. We launched a product called Zscaler Digital X, the ZDX. >> Mm-hmm. >> What that product does is, let's say you're making a Zoom call and your WiFi network is laggy or it's a Zoom server that's laggy. It kind of detects where is the problem and it further tells the IT department you need to fix either the server on which Zoom is running, or fix your home network. So that is the beauty of the product. So I think we are seeing massive growth with some of our new editions in the portfolio, which is a long time coming. >> Yeah and certainly a lot of growth opportunities for you guys, as you come in. Where do you see Zscaler's big growth coming from product-wise? What's the big push? Actually, this is great upside for you here. >> Yeah. >> On the go to market side. Where's the big growth for Zscaler right now? So I think we are focused as a company on zero trust architecture. We want to securely connect users to apps, apps to apps, workloads to workloads and machines to machines. We want to give customers an experience where they have direct access to the apps that's hidden from the outside world and they can securely connect to the apps in a very succinct fashion. The user experience is second to none. A lot of customers use us on the Microsoft Office 365 side, where they see a lag in connecting to Microsoft Office 365 directly. They use the IE service to securely connect. >> Yeah, latency kills. >> Microsoft Office 365. >> Latency kills, as we always say, you know and security, you got to look at the pattern, you want to see that data. >> Yeah, and emerging use cases, there is an immense amount of white space and upside for us as well in emerging use cases, like OT, 5G, IOT. >> Yeah. >> Federal government, DOD. >> Oh god, tactical edge government. >> Security at the edge, absolutely, yeah. >> Where's the big edge? What's the edge challenge right now, if you have to put your finger on the edge, because right now that's the hot area, we're watching that. It's going to be highly contested. It's not yet clear, I mean certainly hybrid is the operating model, cloud, distributing, computing, but edge has got unique things that you can't really point to on premises that's the same. It's highly dynamic, you need high bandwidth, low latency, compute at the edge. The data has to be processed right there. What's the big thing at the edge right now? >> Well, so that's probably an emerging answer. I mean, we're working with our customers, they're inventing and they're kind of finding the use cases for those edge, but one of the good things about Zscaler is that we are able to, we've got low latency at the edge. We're able to work as a computer at the edge. We work on Outpost, Snowball, Snowcone, the Snow devices. So we can be wherever our customers need us. Mobile devices, there are a lot of applications where we've got to be either on embedded devices, on tractors, providing security for those IOT devices. So we're pretty comfortable with where we are being the- >> So that's why you guys are financially doing so well, performance wise. I got to ask you though, because I think that brings up the great point. If this is why I like the Marketplace, if I'm a customer, the edge is highly dynamic. It's changing all the time. I don't want to wait to buy something. If I got my solution architects on a product, I need to know I'm going to have zero trust built in and I need to push the button on Zscaler. I don't want to wait. So how does the procurement side impact? What have you guys seen? Share your thoughts on how Marketplace is working from the procurement standpoint, because it seems to me to be fast. Is that right, or is it still slow on their side? On the buyer side, because this to me would be a benefit to developers, if we say, hey, the procurement can just go really fast. I don't want to go through a bunch of PO approvals or slow meetings. >> It can be, that manifests itself in several ways, John. It can be, for instance, somebody wants to do a POC and traditionally you could take any amount of time to get budget approval, take it through. What if you had a pre-approved cloud budget and that was spent primarily through AWS Marketplace, because it's consolidated data on your AWS invoice. The ability to purchase a POC on the Marketplace could be done literally within minutes of the decision being made to go forward with it. So that's kind of a front end, you know, early stage use case. We've got examples we didn't talk about on our recent earnings call of how we have helped customers bring in their procurement with large million dollar, multimillion dollar deals. Even when a resaler's been involved, one of our resaler partners. Being able to accelerate deals, because there's so much less legal work and traditional bureaucratic effort. >> Agility. >> That agility purchasing process has allowed our customers to pull into the quarter, or the end of month, or end of quarter for them, deals that would've otherwise not been able to be done. >> So this is a great example of where you can set policy and kind of create some guard rails around innovation and integration deals, knowing if it's something that the edge is happening, say okay, here's some budget. We approved it, or Amazon gives credits and partnership going on. Then I'd say, hey, well green light this, not to exceed a million dollars, or whatever number in their range and then let people have the freedom to execute. >> You're absolutely right, so from the purchasing side, it does give them that agility. It eliminates a lot of the processes that would push out a purchase in actual execution past when the business decision is made and quite frankly, to be honest, AWS has been very accommodative. They're a great partner. They've invested a lot in Marketplace, Marketplace programs, to help customers do the right thing and do it more quickly as well as vendors like us to help our customers make the decisions they need to. >> Rising tide, a rising tide floats all boats and you guys are a great example of an independent company. Highly successful on your own. >> Yep. >> Certainly the numbers are clear. Wall Street loves Zscaler and economics are great. >> Our customer CSAT numbers are off the scale as well. >> Customers are great and now you've got the Marketplace. This is again, a new normal. A new kind of ecosystem is developing where it's not like the old monolithic ecosystems. The value creation and extraction is happening differently now. It's kind of interesting. >> Yes and I feel we have a long way to go, but what I can tell you is that Zscaler is in this for the long run. We are seeing some of the competitors erupt in the space as well, but they have a long way to go. What we have built requires years worth of R&D and features and thousands of customer's use cases which kind of lead to something what Zscaler has come up with today. What we have is very unique and is going to continuously be an innovation in the market in the years to come. In terms of being more cloud-savvy or more cloud-focused or more cloud-native than what the market has seen so far in the form of next-gen firewalls. >> I know you guys have got a lot of AI work. We've had many conversations with Howie over there. Great stuff and really appreciate you guys participating in our super cloud event we had and we'll see more of that where we're talking about the next generation clouds, really enabling that new disruptive, open-spanning capabilities across multiple environments to run cloud-native modern applications at scale and secure. Appreciate your time to come on "theCUBE". >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thanks, I totally appreciate it. Zscaler, leading company here on "theCUBE" talking about their relationship with Marketplace as they continue to grow and succeed as technology goes to the next level in the cloud. Of course "theCUBE's" covering it here in Seattle. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. (peaceful electronic music)

>>Okay, welcome back everyone. It's the cubes coverage here in Seattle, Washington for Amazon web services, marketplace seller event. Really the big news here is the combination of the partner network with marketplace to one organization called the Amazon web services partner organization. Again, great news. Things are coming together, getting simplified and I'm John furry host of the cube. You've got a great guest here. Trish TRO head of worldwide Alliance at Wiz the fastest growing software company in history. Congratulations. Welcome to the cube. >>Thank you so much. And thanks for having us. >>So we were talking on camera. You had a little insight to a AWS. You jumped on this company. Oh my God. Amazing team. Take us through the story real quick. It's worth noting Wiz the company fastest growth. We're seeing take us through the quick soundbite. >>Sure. So the quick soundbite. So I was at AWS and my husband shared an article with me on cnbc.com about Wiz. They just done a big funding raise and he's like, you really have to read this. And I read it. And I said, oh my God, every single customer that I've met with the last year and a half has this problem. I have to find a way to be there. I don't care if I have to sweep the floors, lucky enough, they needed someone to run channels and alliances. So I did not have to sweep the floors, but for me, you know, when I think about our success, it's really this convergence of a series of things it's it's right time. Right? COVID forced everybody to the cloud, probably a little faster than they were ready to, you know, right market. And we have this convergence of the incredible product market fit, helping customers accelerate their cloud journey securely. And then I can't say enough about the team. You know, I thought it was fascinating, you know, as great as our product is when I got on board, everyone kept telling me, you know, they bought our product because of the team. And I was like, okay, cool. What about the product? And then I met the team and I understood. So jumped >>On one off one rocket ship. Yeah. To go onto another one. Yeah. You like the rocket, you like to ride those big, fast growth companies. You >>Know, I, I wish I was the kind of person where, you know, I just, I need excitement. Right? I'm I love to build. And I've had really good luck that I've always been able to find myself in a place, whether it's at a massive company or a startup to find myself as a builder, which has always been awesome. >>Well, tr it's great to have you on the cube. And a little fun fact is your sister was interviewed here on the cube in 2019 by myself. And so we have the first sisters, both cube alumni. Congratulations. >>I think that's, you know, honestly of all the accomplishments in my career, that's definitely one. I gotta make sure I get a plaque for that. You >>Will get a VIP sticker too. Yes, we, we all >>Sticker. Let's not get crazy now. >>All right. We'll designate in the front page. We'll have a very big story. L fund all good. We'd love the queue. We'd love to get the insight. So I wanna get your thoughts. Okay. You you've seen the Amazon side. You've been on that side. Now you're another side of the table with a partner growing. We're here to seller our conference. Big mission here is let's make things simpler and easier to procure software since you're already fast growing, what's in it for the customer to work through AWS, to get Wiz. Obviously you guys got a lot of demand. Yeah. A lot of money flowing through. You guys have a direct sales force. Are you going through the marketplace? What's the relationship between Wiz and Aish marketplace. >>So huge, honestly, and it's been a huge contributor to our success. We were lucky because we're, we were born during COVID, we're born in the cloud company. We got to build it from the ground up. This wasn't something that we had to go and figure out how to integrate into our existing ecosystem. Our ecosystem is actually built around the marketplace motion. You know, it's, it's interesting as you know, coming from AWS and now being on the other side, you know, something we really put a focus on is, you know, I see a lot of the companies that I was working with, you know, cloud was very much this thing. That's kind of in a silo and it's its own box and it competes internally. And really when you, you get deeper and deeper into the marketplace, it becomes about how do I use the cloud to really accelerate what I'm doing and to integrate it across my different channels. And for us, you know, AWS is our deepest relationship on the partner side. We invested heavily early and often, and it's been amazing. You >>Know, tr I was talking one of the data brick guys as well, and other companies that are big successes. This is a unique time here at the marketplace. We're on the ground floor. You can see here, we're at the, there's no stage. It's the smaller Q small venue, very intimate event. But it reminds me of 2013 when reinvent was starting to get traction second year, small, intimate, little bit bigger, obviously, but this is gonna feel like it's gonna explode. And you mentioned that you guys are building emotions around the ecosystem of the marketplace because you were born, born in the cloud. And COVID, so it's almost like if you're a startup today, why wouldn't you be in the marketplace first? Why even have that motion? So reminds me of the old days of you're a startup. Why not use the cloud? Why build a data center? >>No, and I think that's a really great analogy, you know, at least from what I've seen, it's, it's super interesting as a startup, because part of when you come out with a new technology in a perfect world, customers would already know what you were gonna make and have funding allocated for it. And we would all have this much easier sales cycle. That's not how it works. The customers, you know, as much as they might wanna get your solution, they have real things like budgets to deal with. And so it's really cool because when you work with the marketplace, it's a pool of funding that the customer has allocated on the customer side. It burns down their commit with the, with their different contracts. So that's usually powerful for them, right? Being able to consolidate your it, spend, reduce your overall total cost of ownership is, is usually powerful to the customer. And it on our side is a startup. So not only are they the financial benefits, it also helps you elevate the conversation. You know, a lot of times in the security industry, it's really all about like speeds and beads. That's how we sell cyber crime is 300% on the rise and stuff like that. Right. But being able to kind of get above that and help the customer, you know, have that financial conversation is, is really helpful too. >>So if I'm a startup, I'm a company, what would be the playbook for me and say, you know what, I'm gonna go all in, in the marketplace, I'm just gonna build the best kick ass product. Okay. I got product market fit. I'm gonna focus all my creative energy on building the best tech with the best, best team. All my friends and colleagues, and none of this non says go to market direct Salesforce, go all in on AWS. I know the product market fits there. What's the playbook. What do I do? Do just list it. >>So list, I think this is one of the mistakes that a lot of companies make when, when they first start out with the marketplace, right? They're like I will get to the marketplace and then AWS will sell my solution. I'm done the marketplace really? >>Where's the money back up the truck, come on. >>Exactly. Right? Like they have all these customers, they should just all come to me. Right. And I think that's one of the mistakes that organizations stumble on initially, cuz they go to the marketplace and then AWS is not selling their solution for them immediately. And they're like, the marketplace is a failure and it's really not. It's just the beginning of that. Being able to go into the marketplace, being able, honestly, to set expectations internally and understanding the journey that really comes into play here. You know, building, you know, one of the things that I talk to a lot about my team with is like building success within the sales reps and helping them be big advocates and champions for the marketplace. And the other thing is like, don't assume people know, I can't tell you. I feel like my, my real job at Wiz is I'm like the marketplace evangelist and cheap cuz that's all I do is talk about why they should use the marketplace and how it can solve all these different problems. Don't assume that people know how to do these things. Like you have to keep reiterating the message. You have to find sellers that are ready for it. And then you have to really, you have to teach them how to do it and then align your sales process accordingly. Like confidentiality come up a whole bunch at this conference today. It's important. You need it. >>It's huge. How big is your sales force right now? >>On >>The direct side. >>On the direct side, I think we're like a hundred or something like >>That. So you have, you have people out there on the streets knocking on doors selling. How's that comp decision go internally as you guys have that, what's the, what's the uptake in the marketplace for you guys right now? Is it high? Is it it's >>Been really high honestly. Yeah. It's and we've been really great. We have some incredible champions internally who are really great about sharing their experience, helping other sellers understand like we've, we've honestly had amazing co-sell stories at AWS where they've been so supportive and helpful. And it's amazing. Like we've had so many sellers that have done their first marketplace transaction ever. And now it's like for some of our sellers, they're at the point where they're like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna not do a marketplace transaction. It's just, it's so much easier. Take us >>For the procurement benefits. Take, walk me through what happens on the procurement side. What's the benefits for using the marketplace as you, as the procurement process goes through? >>Oh, from a, from a procurement side, right? It's like, it's simple, right? Like you, you essentially click a button and it's done like from the seller's side, like imagine not having to like chase down 15 different signatures and make sure nobody's on vacation. Right? So it just takes this really convoluted ti process that they would normally deal with. It makes it a lot simpler on the customer side. Right. Being able to have one consolidated is super powerful, burning down against commit, super powerful. And I think that's something that's really helped. Our sellers too, is being able, like we, we spend a tremendous amount of resources on educating our sellers. Not only about how it's gonna help them, but also how it's gonna help the customer too, >>Too. So good internally for you guys frictionless easier, better, better. Sounds like a better path >>On that. Oh, I won't say frictionless. I mean we're, we're about a year into this, but it wasn't so much frictionless, but it's not a hassle itself. Right. It's not a hassle. And it's all about >>On scale one to 10, 10 being frictionless. Would you get a, an eight or >>I'd say like an eight. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Cool. But it's important for organizations to understand that, right? Like that just because there's a little bit of friction at first. Like the most important thing I told my team is they were like, look like, well, why doesn't everybody wanna do this? This is so easy. And a, a good seller will take the hard time every way when they know what the defined outcome is. Yeah. The marketplace to them feels like a shortcut at first. Yeah. So a very much helps them become like, Hey look, this isn't a shortcut. This is gonna help you. Like, this is a good thing. And once you get that adoption like that, that's where the primary friction is. They almost go, is this, is this too good to be true? This can't be real. >>It, it, it almost sounds too good to be true when you think about, okay, so lemme take, I'm gonna put them a sales rep for a second. Like I'm selling WIS and I go and knock on a door and there's a company and I get an, a champion inside the company and says, oh, I love this product. I wanna buy it. I gotta get my PO approved and I gotta go get, I tell my boss about it. Does it go through that kind of normal kind of normal sales motion where you got buy in and now they gotta commit and close and get contract or they just go to the person who runs the account, click the button, like, like, is there, I mean, I'd like to see that shortcut happen. Like so on the customer side, what, what do you see as the process? Is it just go to the console and hit by and >>You know, depends on the customer honestly, and kind of where they are in their cloud journey. You know, really mature customers tend to have a little bit more of a mature process, you know, earlier customers, it tends to be a little less, let's say structured, but no, it's definitely not. The customer just clicks the button and it's done. That would be quite nice. We're just not there yet, but it's definitely a much simpler process cuz you know, you think about it on the customer side when they decide they wanna buy something, especially something new, they don't have allocated funding for us. They have to go build all this justification for funding. They still have to do that. Right. But then now there's a pot of money that they can go to and be able to retire against. There, there, it does help in that sense. A >>Lot. Chris, Chris grew has talked about on his keynote, the buyer journey survey. That seems to be on the, on the customer side. Yeah. Having those processes where they can forecast against it, they kind of know what they're getting. That's that's that's sounds like a great thing that's happening. I wanna get back to this comp issue again. Cause this came up. I heard that a lot. We talked with Chris about the competing thing. That's not an issue in my mind, but I think the factor to me, if I'm looking at this is that if you get the comp right, they can sell it at Amazon. You get comped, your sales people get comped goes through the marketplace. How do you look at that? How do company her look? How do they look at the comp what's what's the deciding factor or is it a non-issue what's the, what's the core. >>So I'm opportunity. I'm gonna be honest. I think I got a little lucky because I think the getting alignment at the executive level that this was something we should do to be totally honest here. Wasn't wasn't super hard. When we presented a clear plan, how we were gonna do it, what other companies were doing, what it did for their business to our executives. We do, we get some pushback. Sure. Healthy questions. Sure. But like it, it really >>Was it margin related or more like operational costs. >>It wasn't even margin related. It was again, more of like, is this, this feels too good to be true kind of thing. So it was more like proving it to them. Like no, like it really can be that easy. Yeah. And then on the, the comp side, right. For us, we look at it as like cost of sales. So yeah. You know, we, we treat it the same way. We treat all other channels and we wanted to make sure for our reps that, you know, when we think about the channel, whether, you know, from, especially with marketplace, like it can't be harder for them to do a marketplace transaction or less incentive for them to do that than a direct one that doesn't incentivize the right behaviors. >>So it's more of an indirect channel play. >>Yeah. So it's all for us. It was about aligning the right incentives to drive the right behaviors. It wasn't, it actually was a pretty short discussion on the confidentiality. Everyone was like, no, this, this makes sense. We should do that. >>Yeah. I mean, I think it's, I think it's an easy, easy, but you have to be organized for it. Like, like Chris said, don't put the toe in the water. Right. Put your flagship offering in there, make it valuable. And then the flag wheel gets going, the Amazon sales people can sell it. Right. They get calm. That's always a good thing. >>Yeah. And I think that's something that was really interesting. Like when we started on the marketplace journey, like I said, it's not just, you get in a marketplace and you're done, you know, Chris talked a lot about ISV accelerate and you know, how you elevate yourself within that program, doing things with ACE, like putting in different opportunities to, to start to essentially build that groundswell to drive co-sell it's, it's gets that first step into it. But there's so much more that, that we're still discovering and learning today is we're building it >>Out. And you said you had some good co-sell examples. >>Oh yeah. So we've had some great Cosell. >>What's your best one. Best one to >>Share. Oh, so my favorite one, I won't say the customer name, but we were in the final stages and a customer was really like, oh, like this is a lot of money. I'm really nervous. And the, they, I think what's crazy is that at AWS you have a different relationship with customers. Like you are truly a trusted advisor and rightfully so. Yeah. AWS really does a great job with making sure their account teams do what's best for the customer. And so an AWS seller or technical resource on an account says, Hey, no, this is the right thing for your business. That is huge for the customer. So we at Wiz actually spend a lot of time investing in enabling and educating the AWS account teams. So they feel comfortable when they get into that situation where the customers nervous of being saying like, no, this is you need to do this. This is >>Gonna be, you carry a lot of weight with the customers. >>Absolutely. >>And so you almost have to treat them like a lunch and learn, get 'em up, find, share. So it's kind of like an indirect relationship for you, but for them it's a part, you know, this is basically a channel. >>Yeah. And I think that's the thing that, that really is something we we've really heavily invested in is, is building. I like call the ground game within AWS. Right? Yeah. Making sure we spend time with enabling their reps. We enable their technical teams lunch and learns, right? Like there's so much energy at AWS to really invest in technical solutions that help their customers. Awesome. Which you don't always find that a lot of partners honestly. >>Well, Trish, great. Great to have you on sharing the AWS relationship story with WIS, gotta ask you, what's it like to be working for the fastest growing startup? What's it like? It's, it's, it's pretty fun. >>You know, it's, let's say I don't ever wake up on a day and say, man, I just wish I had more things to do. No, it's, it's been an incredible journey. The people, you know, my favorite part of a startup is, you know, getting to do this with a bunch of really incredible, awesome people. It's, it's the most fun thing in the world. We've, I've learned more in the last, you know, we like to joke that we're a five year old company and a one year old company at the exact same time. Yeah. And what's cool is we get to learn and, and I I've learned so much this year. >>When was the company officially >>Formed? It was officially formed before. Like, so it was officially formed in February, 2020. We started officially operating in the January following 21. So 21. Yep. >>Yeah. So one and a half years, >>One and a half years. Isn't that crazy? Great. >>And a hundred million ARR already. Yeah. Hitting that. >>Yep. It's been a, a wild journey. I I'll put it that way >>Is the, what's the success of the businesses? It, the onboarding the, is it the business model of freemium? What's the product market fit dynamic. Why is so fast? I mean, that's the needs there? Pandemic fresh, clean piece, piece of paper doing it, right. What's the, why is it? Why is that going so fast? >>Well, I think about this, I've been in the security industry for too many years. And when you think about normal security products, like there's so much time to value, you have to deploy all this infrastructure and then you gotta wait till something happens that you find that's scary, that will excite the customer. Right? It's, it's, it's a lot of time to show value. What blew my mind is the way that we approach our, the problem that we're solving is essentially immediate time to value. So the customer connects within minutes, they're immediately presented with here's your, your top risks. And then they can take action on them. Right? Like it's not just, here's these big threats and detecting, it's actually giving, empowering the customer to go and, and fix things. That's that's powerful for them. Yeah. Yeah. >>So, and the renewals are there coming in, people like the product, >>I mean, we've only been around for a year and a half, so there aren't that many renewals yet, but let's say we have extremely strong renewal rate from our customer base. >>Yeah. I mean you can have when you have a great product. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming on sharing. What's your assessment so far of the database marketplace kind of reorg with APN partner network to have one organization. What does that mean to the, to the market? What does that what's that tell you? >>So I was really excited. So we're actually built this way. So I run both our channels and alliances organization and it was, it was great because it allows these two things to work together and, and very well. And AWS, I think, is realizing the power of bringing those two groups together. So when I saw that, I was like, that's gonna be great. It's gonna make it simpler, easier. And at least for us, it's been really powerful. >>Awesome. Thanks for coming on the cube. Really appreciate it. We'll get you that plaque shortly. >>I thought I was getting a sticker too. >>Don't forget the sticker. Oh, the sticker definitely guaranteed. And we'll give you a VIP icon on our cube alumni network. All >>Right. I like that. >>Thanks for coming out. Alls great stuff. Thanks. Awesome. Thanks for having all best growing company history here on the cube, bringing all the action again, the new flywheel is gonna be procured through the marketplaces. This is obvious how it all kind of works and forms. It's kind of happening in real time. Cube's got you covered on the ground floor here in Seattle with more coverage after the short break.

>>Hello everyone. I'm John furry with the cube. We're here, live on the ground in Seattle, Washington at the Bellevue Hilton for thes marketplace seller conference. It's kind of like the one and a half inaugural event. They have their first event in 2019, and now with the pandemic, they're re rebooting it, but it's really all about AWS's marketplace and partner network coming together, creating an experience for how people will be buying software and how people will be selling through with their ecosystem. I'm Jennifer, the cube we're here with Megan. Fontain, who's the VP of cloud seek. Who's a seller and partner of AWS making great to see you. Thanks for coming on the cube. >>Thank you so much. It's, it's nice to be back in person and it's great to be with you. >>So watching the progression of how Amazon web services is evolving the marketplace and the partner network, you're starting to see some patterns. One is, I'll say they have their own stuff, and they're addressing that in the room, but they're really letting the thousand flowers bloom in the ecosystem. You hear that every year reinvent, even when Andy Jesse who's now the CEO of Amazon would say, no, we want the best of breed. Best product wins. Adam. Celeste's the same view, new leadership here, the combination of APN partner network with the marketplace now partner organization, APO is the big news. They're open. They're building an API service layer between their old marketplace to create this new model here. What's your, what's your, what's your take? What's your seller view? >>Yeah, so our marketplace and APN journey started with AWS about three years ago. And I think something that was the most profound to me out of the keynote this morning was that Chris Gus, who runs the API organization for ISVs talked about marketplace as the automation layer for how AWS will partner going forward. So an independent software vendor likes, we see that as opening up the door for two things. One, we get to leverage the great global scale and platform of AWS, but then secondly, it really brings together this idea that we will sell together to the end customer through the marketplace. And we will also sell as partners through co-sell and APM. >>You know, I love these kind of new, new development models around channel partners, ISVs at the end of the day, buyers are buying software. Yes. And they're cloud they're on a cloud journey. You're the VP of cloud at the company, your company seek take a minute to explain what your company's known for, what you guys do, your relationship with the market. You're an ISV. Yeah. Where are you guys? Cuz you guys ha have a good thing going on here. What do you guys do? What are you known for >>Sure. So seek is market leading software for advanced analytics for the manufacturing industry. So we're squarely in that industry. ISV, we sell SAS solutions to business buyers who want two things. One is they want technology that they can deploy quickly in their organizations drive that great business value ROI that drives the next level of investment in technology seeks unique offering in marketplace is that we've solved a lot of the challenges around that operational data in manufacturing. So manufacturing the industry, it's going through massive transformation, supply chain, disruption, or coming out of that, the globalization of manufacturing. And yet they have data that they've stored for 20, 30 years, that they're still in the first generation of trying to gain insights from. So that's why seek exists. It's really to bring the insights outta that data and then help the manufacturing customers we work with. Get to the cloud. >>What's interesting. I like your perspective and I want to follow up on that because data analytics used to be this thing. Well, I got a database. Yeah. You hosted on some storage and you got structured data, unstructured data. Okay. You got scale. But now you've got data platforms. You've got data mesh. I think Gardner actually has a different term, but gets a whole nother conversation. Data platforms are diverse. Yeah. They're pervasive. They're part of core infrastructure in cloud. It's not like a point solution anymore. It's gotta be integrated and customers are trying to work on, this is one of the hardest problems today. Yeah. In cloud transformation is the data layer, the relationship to other services. Yeah. >>So the Dataverse common data models. How APIs will interact with data. The trend there though is something that it is the ecosystem that will bring value to customers because no database is gonna serve every need. Right. And you think about the data layer. It really has to solve the problems whereby any application, any user, any insight can be generated almost seamlessly. And we're really on the first wave of that journey. But I think a, an element for seek that we certainly understand with our customers is that data alone is not an end objective, right? If it doesn't lead to a decision and an action and a workflow that humans can take to go drive and improvement in their business process, then you haven't tapped into the, you know, value of that technology >>When a buyer comes to the marketplace. Yeah. And they see your listing and solutions. Yes. What are they getting? What are they, what, what are they buying? >>So for seek, we've radically simplified that we, we really embrace this idea of simplification. We just sell, seek. So we have one seat listing in the AWS marketplace, all applications of seek they're all available there. We really leaned into the enterprise procurement models. So private offers are how we do the most of our business on marketplace. And it really went from a stage of experimentation where couple of customers, you know, what is this marketplace? Maybe we'll buy a few of our business applications there all the way through to now we're starting to see the demand side come through for customers where it's not just their security software or their DevOps or infrastructure software. They wanna buy solutions like seek including line of business buyers through a common catalog in the marketplace. >>Great. So I wanna ask you, cuz I want to give you the opportunity to give the pitch, the customer watching right now. Yeah. What's the pitch. Why seek, why this listing? Why should they hit the purchase button? I wish it was that easy. Why should they, why should they what's the pitch? Sure. >>So the first thing is seek through marketplace is a five clicks on three screens procurement experience. So compare that to months and months of back and forth with contracts and purchase orders and vendor set up, this is five less than five minutes, few screens, couple of clicks. And you can buy a multi-year subscription of seek to cover your entire enterprise. The second pitch is that it's a SaaS application that now can be deployed within hours. And then your users, your insights, your value is starting within the first couple hours. This is not a heavy lift it project. That's gonna take months. And then lastly seek specifically. So seek, because we're validated in the marketplace has been well architected for AWS cloud. We have that, you know, stamp of credibility. And we are leading in this space for manufacturing organizations who want cloud native secure software for analytics on their operational data. >>That's awesome. And customers have the challenge when they think about data, the use case security, yes governance, there's a variety of different use cases. What are you seeing as the top three use cases for C? >>So on the there's two lines of that question. The first is really the line of business use cases. And those are all about what outcome are we gonna drive? Are we gonna approve efficiency in your factory? Are we gonna reduce greenhouse gas emissions? Those are the kinds of use cases on the business side that that seek works with our customers on, on the it side. They wanna know that we can access data securely, that we can be part of an ecosystem where they can bring in aerations and algorithms and machine learning and new applications. And they also wanna know that we are sustainable. So meaning that we're driving constant innovation that is easy for them to consume and to gain access, to, to drive the next level of >>Improvement. My final AWS marketplace seller question is, yeah. How does the procurement process through marketplace help you and your customers what's in it for them? What value do the, does the customer get going through AWS procuring? >>So there's really really three. The first is you get a validated set of a catalog of solutions, right? That AWS says, you know, we undergo a rigorous process technically and commercially to be in the marketplace. The second thing for procurement effect of for procurement professionals is that they can leverage their cloud committed spend with AWS. So as they commit more expense and spend with AWS, now these marketplace purchases can be credited to that committed expense. We found that brings it and the business together with procurement to really work more collectively on that. And then the third piece is, imagine buying software where you don't need legal, you know, back and forth, back and forth because we're using a standard doula that thousands of other software companies are using in the marketplace today. >>I thought the keynote had a great line. We are not just a website of a catalog. We are a API service layer. Yes. With automation, more like a C I C D pipe lining. Yes. Of software. Yeah. And we are hearing more and more about software supply chain, more about scaling. This is kind of the future of procurement. Why wouldn't you buy direct, pick a few buttons and assemble your solutions at scale. >>There's some amount of tenant consequences that we've really learned as well. It brings it and the business closer together. So the it person wants to know, well, what is this seek, you know, piece of my AWS invoice. And so they get more engaged earlier in the process with procurement, with the business. And we've actually found that it brings internally for our customers, more people to the seat at the table around what are the applications and how will they govern them across the enterprise. >>Megan, I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with me here at the, at the conference, the seller S marketplace. I have to ask you, we were talking before we came on camera, you made a comment. I'd like you to share this comment with some commentary. You said I'm the VP of cloud transformation. And in the future that might title might not exist. Explain what you mean there, cuz I think this is kind of a telling moment about where we are at this point in the industry. >>Sure. So maybe it's, maybe it's funny to sort of envision a future where your role doesn't exist. But I think, you know, it's a to innovators do that, right? And for us we're a software company. That's going through the transition on-prem to SAS, you know, cloud native sets of applications, but in the pretty near term fore, really the next two years, all of our business will be SaaS and cloud. And so we won't need a separate VP or a separate team or separate function. It will just be how the business operates. >>Megan, thanks for running cue, Meghan bine, who is SI, she's a cloud VP of cloud transformation, VP of cloud, and she's successful. The title will go away and she'll move on to some other great valuable things like running the business. Thanks for coming on. Thank you so much. Okay. This is a cube here in Seattle. We're covering the eights marketplace seller conference. Part of APN merging with Amazon marketplace now called the APO Amazon partner organization. I'm John ER, with the cube. Thanks for watching.

>>Welcome back everyone to the cubes coverage here in Seattle, Washington for the Avis marketplace seller conference, part of the APN partner network merging with the marketplace to form the Amazon partner organization. I'm John furrier, host of the cube Walter Wall coverage today, Christian Gor cash, who is the VP of alliances at Kong Inc. Welcome to the cube. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. Thank you, John. Really glad to be here. Corke exactly. Yeah. It's awesome. >>So Kong we've been following you guys for while Docker Kong cube. You've been part of our cube conversation. Also part of our, our startup showcase fast growing startup, you know, working on stuff that everyone loves APIs. I mean, APIs are so popular now that they now a security concern, right? Yeah. So like it gets squat there everywhere. I won't say API sprawl, but APIs are the connections and that are, is the web. That is the cloud. Okay. Now with cloud native developers who are now in the front lines have taken over it, everyone knows DevOps dev SecOps is now the new it and it's the developers security and data they're below they're the new ops, right? So, so this is where microservices come in, open source service MES new automation is coming down the pike. That's super valuable to businesses as they look at cloud native architecture, what are you guys doing in there? Take a minute to explain Kong's value proposition, the hot products, and then why you're here. >>Yeah. So, you know, I joined Kong now or three years ago, you know, we were still just reaching our hundred employees, mark, which is very important, very startup, but even back then, you know, Kong was relatively well known in industry, you know, so we have one of the most, well the most popular open source project in API gateway area. So con API gateway, you know, we cross now 300 million downloads, even more important is just the scale it, which the product's been used. So between our open source community and enterprise customers, we are now crossing like 11 trillion transactions per month. Now just give you comparison. Like this is like 18, 19 times more than Netflix per month. You know? So for any company that has a technology that operates it at scale, you need to hit few things outta the park. You know, as he mentions cloud data developers, they want simplicity. You know, they want automation. They also want performance and scale and security, which are all critical, you know, to how Kong, you know, start as opensource project. Now, of course we have the whole suite of enterprise products. We also have our con service mesh offering as well as our cloud offerings. >>Yeah. And this is how open source is doing it now, obviously, you know, I, I still remember, I still tell the story to the young startups. Hey, I, there was proprietary software when I was in college. Open source is now everything. Now you've got, got cloud scale. So the dynamic between open source, which has become the software industry open source success doesn't mean it's it's game over. It's the beginning. The commercialization that you guys have gone through is super important. Trillions of transactions. Now you have enterprises working with you. What's the big advantage of the seller relationship that you have with Amazon? Why are customers using it? What are they buying it for? Give the pitch of con for the marketplace customer. >>Yeah, it's actually, we are relatively new in AWS marketplace. You know, so our first transaction that we ever done was actually in July and 2021. So we are just over a year, you know, that journey, you know, when I look what Chris gross talked today, he was talking about, you know, Hey, just publishing marketplace, not enough. You know, you need to understand what's your value proposition. You need to make sure your operations already, your sales is ready. Everything is, is set. And we kind of did this for the first year and a half is spend a lot of time improving our integration with AWS overall, all the first party services relevant to con we also understood, well, what does it take to kind of fine tune our value proposition? We have like three specific sales place. And you know, when we launch our flagship product con connect enterprise and got our first transaction, that was great milestone for, for star like Kong. But then what we've seen is just that work that we've done before really paid off. I mean right now, >>Like what we'll give example. >>Yeah. So, you know, we are focusing on as measure three sales place. Money is we are focused, specific on helping customers who are modernizing and, and their application going to the cloud. And you have a lot of these, you know, lifting shift and are rearchitect and modernized, but most of the attentions on the workloads, what about the connections? You know, so a monolith application had to authentic all the users understand wheres the network and so on. When you build those, when you now decouple this built like 1,000 thousand microservices, you don't want to repeat this for every microservice. So that's where K brings the whole suite from, you know, service match to the API gate to help manage the journey and really support this environment. And we spend a lot of time to just fine tune that message. So that customers understood where, you know, how can we help them on their journey beyond what, for instance, cloud native or AWS API gateway offers them. So we can really help them from day one on the journey and accelerate. And >>I think I it's a no, it's a no braining for a customer to buyer or to come into the marketplace and say, click, I'm gonna buy some data analytics services. I'm gonna buy gateway through Kong. But when they start getting into these microservices, this automation opportunity there, there's more behind the curtain for them with Kong. So I have to ask you with the keynote we heard from Chris, the leader of the marketplace. Now he said that he wants the ISVs to be more native in the cloud. That probably resonates with you. You, >>You guys well with con's relatively simple because we were built at cloud native, you know, so very briefly the whole story of Congo. This is before Ajo, our founders were actually running the, the very popular API exchange col mesh shape. And they had to build their own gateway just to handle the scale and was built on cloud native technologies. And then when everybody's calling you, what are you using to running? This are using PGS. And so else, no, we built ourselves, oh, how can we get our hands on? That's how con actually >>Came to. And that's how the big winners usually happen too. They start build their own, solve their own problem because it's a big scale problem. Exactly. No one's had that problem. >>Yeah. And what we have seen, especially what was very, you know, through, through the pandemic, what we have seen. And it's interesting, you know, being in a startup doing pandemic is like, whoa, will the life just shut down or what we're doing? You know? But actually what we have seen customers prioritize the new business capability. For instance, you have a large parental companies that overnight, they have to understand where the assets are. Yeah. Or banks who are like 45 days of, you know, approving process for the loans. They need to reduce it for a day or two. >>Yeah. And they're adding more developers, too, exactly. To build the modern application. So they need to have that infrastructure as code aspect. Correct. >>And they >>Need in place. >>Yeah. I need to like you have, you know, I don't think that many customers still have waterfall cycles, but they have, have pre pretty long developers development cycles. And now you need to, you know, do this multiple times a day. That's >>Interesting. We talked to a lot of cloud architects and C CIO C says, and you know, the executive just hire more developers take that hill, build. It just don't build a new app. It's not that easy boss. When, when the cloud architect says we have to be fully operationally ready with cloud native infrastructure's code. So with that, you're seeing a lot more enterprises come in now that are more savvy. They getting better. We're seeing Kubernetes more and more. You're seeing containerization. You're seeing that cloud native enterprise acceptance. What does that mean for you guys in the marketplace, as you look at the value proposition, how are you guys working with the marketplace today and where do you see customers buying in the future? >>Yeah, so we as mentioned, you know, we, we are now a year into that journey. We already seen tremendous benefits just in terms of reducing the friction. You know, the whole procurement, you know, you come as a startup with some, some of the largest companies in the world, they used to buy five, 10 billion in software and they have all these processes and you're like, well, but we only have like two people in finance. Sorry. How can you, and where marketplace can really, really helps us is, you know, improve this experience, both sides because they understand like we are fast moving company. They, they want us because of our speed and, and innovation that we, the product's strong. Yeah. They don't want us to get bogged down in all these pro procurement processes either. And so, so that's the first benefit. We also are working very hard to make sure that the customers can provision Kong in AWS and automate across the board. So essentially reducing their time to value dramatically. Yeah. And another thing that we found tremendously beneficial for us is a startup is the whole concept of a standard marketplace contract. Yeah. So instead of us coming with our little MSA or come like 50 page MSA from companies, we now have a middle ground. So we can just agree. You know, there's some differences, some specifics to qu software and it's tremendously reduced costs on both sides. >>Great. For you guys great for the buyers. Yeah. You get deployed services. They're not just buying, they're managing and deploying. Yeah, >>Exactly. Great. >>Quick, final question. Put a plugin for the company. What are you working on now? What's the big news. What's the con update? >>Well, that's an interesting part because I can't tell you because next week we have our con summit. Oh right. In San Francisco. The cubes not so 28, 20 ninth. Yeah. We, we we'll, I think we are gonna fix that in the future. But anyway, this is the first time after pandemic to do this in person, we have number of very exciting announcement, our Kong products, as well as you may hear some news about our AWS partnership, >>We like con we believe that DevOps has happened. Dev sec ops, whatever you gonna call it, dev is now the developers they're in the front lines. They're in the C I CD pipeline. They're shifting left. That's the new they took over it. That's what DevOps does. It's not a title. Now you have security and data ops behind the scenes. That's gonna be middleware. That's gonna have tons of microservices. So more, more, more action coming, all API based. >>Exactly. And the more, you know, the more complexity we can take away from that, the better we, you know, the >>Whole community. Thank you. Spending the time to come on the cube here at the, a us marketplace seller conference. What do you think about the APN merging with the marketplace formed the P the Amazon partner organization. Thumbs up, thumbs down. What's your heard? >>It's excellent. We have a great friend in AP, a great friend, us marketplace. Now both of them work together with huge. >>Fantastic. Yes. Thanks for okay. Cube coverage here in Seattle. I'm John furier APN marketplace together. APOs the new organization making it easier. Of course, we got all the coverage here. Thanks for watching.

>>Welcome back everyone to the cubes coverage here in Seattle, Washington, AWS's marketplace seller conference. It's the big news within the Amazon partner network, combining with marketplaces, forming the Amazon partner organization, part of a big reorg as they grow the next level NextGen cloud mid-game on the chessboard. Cube's got cover. I'm John fur, host of Cub, a great guests here from data bricks, both cube alumnis, Jack Anderson, GM of the and VP of the data bricks partnership team. For ADOS, you handle that relationship and Joel Minick vice president of product and partner marketing. You guys are the, have the keys to the kingdom with data, bricks, and AWS. Thanks for joining. Thanks for good to see you again. Thanks for >>Having us back. Yeah, John, great to be here. >>So I feel like we're at reinvent 2013 small event, no stage, but there's a real shift happening with procurement. Obviously it makes it's a no brainer on the micro, you know, people should be buying online self-service cloud scale, but Amazon's got billions being sold to their marketplace. They've reorganized their partner network. You can see kind of what's going on. They've kind of figured it out. Like let's put everything together and simplify and make it less of a website marketplace merge our partner to have more synergy and friction, less experiences so everyone can make more money and customer's gonna be happier. >>Yeah, that's right. >>I mean, you're run relationship. You're in the middle of it. >>Well, Amazon's mental model here is that they want the world's best ISVs to operate on AWS so that we can collaborate and co architect on behalf of customers. And that's exactly what the APO and marketplace allow us to do is to work with Amazon on these really, you know, unique use cases. >>You know, I interviewed Ali many times over the years. I remember many years ago, I think six, maybe six, seven years ago, we were talking. He's like, we're all in ons. Obviously. Now the success of data bricks, you've got multiple clouds. See that customers have choice, but I remember the strategy early on. It was like, we're gonna be deep. So this is speaks volumes to the, the relationship you have years. Jack take us through the relationship that data bricks has with AWS from a, from a partner perspective, Joel, and from a product perspective, because it's not like you got to Johnny come lately new to the new, to the scene, right? We've been there almost president creation of this wave. What's the relationship and has it relate to what's going on today? >>So, so most people may not know that data bricks was born on AWS. We actually did our first 100 million of revenue on Amazon. And today we're obviously available on multiple clouds, but we're very fond of our Amazon relationship. And when you look at what the APN allows us to do, you know, we're able to expand our reach and co-sell with Amazon and marketplace broadens our reach. And so we think of marketplace in three different aspects. We've got the marketplace, private offer business, which we've been doing for a number of years. Matter of fact, we we're driving well over a hundred percent year over year growth in private offers and we have a nine figure business. So it's a very significant business. And when a customer uses a private offer that private offer counts against their private pricing agreement with AWS. So they get pricing power against their, their private pricing. >>So it's really important. It goes on their Amazon bill in may. We launched our pay as you go on demand offering. And in five short months, we have well over a thousand subscribers. And what this does is it really reduces the barriers to entry it's low friction. So anybody in an enterprise or startup or public sector company can start to use data bricks on AWS and pay consumption based model and have it go against their monthly bill. And so we see customers, you know, doing rapid experimentation pilots, POCs, they're, they're really learning the value of that first use case. And then we see rapid use case expansion. And the third aspect is the consulting partner, private offers C P O super important in how we involve our partner ecosystem of our consulting partners and our resellers that are able to work with data bricks on behalf of customers. >>So you got the big contracts with the private offer. You got the product market fit, kind of people iterating with data coming in with, with the buyers you go. And obviously the integration piece all fitting in there. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. So that's that those are the offers that's current and what's in marketplace today. Is that the products, what are, what are people buying? I mean, I guess what's the Joel, what are, what are people buying in the marketplace and what does it mean for >>Them? So fundamentally what they're buying is the ability to take silos out of their organization. And that's, that is the problem that data bricks is out there to solve, which is when you look across your data landscape today, you've got unstructured data, you've got structured data, you've got real time streaming data, and your teams are trying to use all of this data to solve really complicated problems. And as data bricks as the lake house company, what we're helping customers do is how do they get into the new world? How do they move to a place where they can use all of that data across all of their teams? And so we allow them to begin to find through the marketplace, those rapid adoption use cases where they can get rid of these data, warehousing data lake silos they've had in the past, get their unstructured and structured data onto one data platform and open data platform that is no longer adherent to any proprietary formats and standards and something. >>They can very much, very easily integrate into the rest of their data environment, apply one common data governance layer on top of that. So that from the time they ingest that data to the time they use that data to the time they share that data inside and outside of their organization, they know exactly how it's flowing. They know where it came from. They know who's using it. They know who has access to it. They know how it's changing. And then with that common data platform with that common governance solution, they'd being able to bring all of those use cases together across their real time, streaming their data engineering, their BI, their AI, all of their teams working on one set of data. And that lets them move really, really fast. And it also lets them solve challenges. They just couldn't solve before a good example of this, you know, one of the world's now largest data streaming platforms runs on data bricks with AWS. >>And if you think about what does it take to set that up? Well, they've got all this customer data that was historically inside of data warehouses, that they have to understand who their customers are. They have all this unstructured data, they've built their data science model, so they can do the right kinds of recommendation engines and forecasting around. And then they've got all this streaming data going back and forth between click stream data from what the customers are doing with their platform and the recommendations they wanna push back out. And if those teams were all working in individual silos, building these kinds of platforms would be extraordinarily slow and complex, but by building it on data bricks, they were able to release it in record time and have grown at, at record pace >>To not be that's product platform that's impacting product development. Absolutely. I mean, this is like the difference between lagging months of product development to like days. Yes. Pretty much what you're getting at. Yeah. So total agility. I got that. Okay. Now I'm a customer I wanna buy in the marketplace, but I also, you got direct Salesforce up there. So how do you guys look at this? Is there channel conflict? Are there comp programs? Because one of the things I heard today in on the stage from a Davis's leadership, Chris was up there speaking and, and, and moment I was, Hey, he's a CRO conference, chief revenue officer conversation, which means someone's getting compensated. So if I'm the sales rep at data bricks, what's my motion to the customer. Do I get paid? Does Amazon sell it? Take us through that. Is there channel conflict? Is there or an audio lift? >>Well, I I'd add what Joel just talked about with, with, you know, what the solution, the value of the solution our entire offering is available on AWS marketplace. So it's not a subset, the entire data bricks offering and >>The flagship, all the, the top, >>Everything, the flagship, the complete offering. So it's not, it's not segmented. It's not a sub segment. It's it's, you know, you can use all of our different offerings. Now when it comes to seller compensation, we, we, we view this two, two different ways, right? One is that AWS is also incented, right? Versus selling a native service to recommend data bricks for the right situation. Same thing with data bricks. Our Salesforce wants to do the right thing for the customer. If the customer wants to use marketplace as their procurement vehicle. And that really helps customers because if you get data bricks and five other ISVs together, and let's say each ISV is spending, you're spending a million dollars, you have $5 million of spend, you put that spend through the flywheel with AWS marketplace. And then you can use that in your negotiations with AWS to get better pricing overall. So that's how we, >>We do it. So customers are driving. This sounds like, correct. For sure. So they're looking at this as saying, Hey, I'm gonna just get purchasing power with all my relationships because it's a solution architectural market, right? >>Yeah. It makes sense. Because if most customers will have a primary and secondary cloud provider, if they can consolidate, you know, multiple ISV spend through that same primary provider, you get pricing >>Power, okay, Jill, we're gonna date ourselves. At least I will. So back in the old days, it used to be, do a Barney deal with someone, Hey, let's go to market together. You gotta get paper, you do a biz dev deal. And then you gotta say, okay, now let's coordinate our sales teams, a lot of moving parts. So what you're getting at here is that the alternative for data bricks or any company is to go find those partners and do deals versus now Amazon is the center point for the customer so that you can still do those joint deals. But this seems to be flipping the script a little bit. >>Well, it is, but we still have VAs and consulting partners that are doing implementation work very valuable work advisory work that can actually work with marketplace through the C PPO offering. So the marketplace allows multiple ways to procure your >>Solution. So it doesn't change your business structure. It just makes it more efficient. That's >>Correct. >>That's a great way to say it. Yeah, >>That's great. So that's so that's it. So that's just makes it more efficient. So you guys are actually incented to point customers to the marketplace. >>Yes, >>Absolutely. Economically. Yeah. >>E economically it's the right thing to do for the customer. It's the right thing to do for our relationship with Amazon, especially when it comes back to co-selling right? Because Amazon now is leaning in with ISVs and making recommendations for, you know, an ISV solution and our teams are working backwards from those use cases, you know, to collaborate, land them. >>Yeah. I want, I wanna get that out there. Go ahead, Joel. >>So one of the other things I might add to that too, you know, and why this is advantageous for, for companies like data bricks to, to work through the marketplace, is it makes it so much easier for customers to deploy a solution. It's, it's very, literally one click through the marketplace to get data bricks stood up inside of your environment. And so if you're looking at how do I help customers most rapidly adopt these solutions in the AWS cloud, the marketplace is a fantastic accelerator to that. You >>Know, it's interesting. I wanna bring this up and get your reaction to it because to me, I think this is the future of procurement. So from a procurement standpoint, I mean, again, dating myself EDI back in the old days, you know, all that craziness. Now this is all the, all the internet, basically through the console, I get the infrastructure side, you know, spin up and provision. Some servers, all been good. You guys have played well there in the marketplace. But now as we get into more of what I call the business apps, and they brought this up on stage little nuance, most enterprises aren't yet there of integrating tech on the business apps, into the stack. This is where I think you guys are a use case of success where you guys have been successful with data integration. It's an integrator's dilemma, not an innovator's dilemma. So like, I want to integrate, so now I have integration points with data bricks, but I want to put an app in there. I want to provision an application, but it has to be built. It's not, you don't buy it. You build, you gotta build stuff. And this is the nuance. What's your reaction to that? Am I getting this right? Or, or am I off because no, one's gonna be buying software. Like they used to, they buy software to integrate it. >>Yeah, >>No, I, cause everything's integrated. >>I think AWS has done a great job at creating a partner ecosystem, right. To give customers the right tools for the right jobs. And those might be with third parties, data bricks is doing the same thing with our partner connect program. Right. We've got customer, customer partners like five tra and D V T that, you know, augment and enhance our platform. And so you, you're looking at multi ISV architectures and all of that can be procured through the AWS marketplace. >>Yeah. It's almost like, you know, bundling and unbundling. I was talking about this with, with Dave ante about Supercloud, which is why wouldn't a customer want the best solution in their architecture period. And it's class. If someone's got API security or an API gateway. Well, you know, I don't wanna be forced to buy something because it's part of a suite and that's where you see things get suboptimized where someone dominates a category and they have, oh, you gotta buy my version of this. Yeah. >>Joel, Joel. And that's Joel and I were talking, we're actually saying what what's really important about Databricks is that customers control the data. Right? You wanna comment on that? >>Yeah. I was say the, you know what you're pushing on there we think is extraordinarily, you know, the way the market is gonna go is that customers want a lot of control over how they build their data stack. And everyone's unique in what tools are the right ones for them. And so one of the, you know, philosophically I think really strong places, data, bricks, and AWS have lined up is we both take an approach that you should be able to have maximum flexibility on the platform. And as we think about the lake house, one thing we've always been extremely committed to as a company is building the data platform on an open foundation. And we do that primarily through Delta lake and making sure that to Jack's point with data bricks, the data is always in your control. And then it's always stored in a completely open format. And that is one of the things that's allowed data bricks to have the breadth of integrations that it has with all the other data tools out there, because you're not tied into any proprietary format, but instead are able to take advantage of all the innovation that's happening out there in the open source ecosystem. >>When you see other solutions out there that aren't as open as you guys, you guys are very open by the way, we love that too. We think that's a great strategy, but what's the, what am I foreclosing? If I go with something else that's not as open what what's the customer's downside as you think about what's around the corner in the industry. Cuz if you believe it's gonna be open, open source, which I think opens our software is the software industry and integration is a big deal, cuz software's gonna be plentiful. Let's face it. It's a good time to be in software business, but cloud's booming. So what's the downside from your data bricks perspective, you see a buyer clicking on data bricks versus that alternative what's potentially is should they be a nervous about down the road if they go with a more proprietary or locked in approach? Well, >>I think the challenge with proprietary ecosystems is you become beholden to the ability of that provider to both build relationships and convince other vendors that they should invest in that format. But you're also then beholden to the pace at which that provider is able to innovate. And I think we've seen lots of times over history where, you know, a proprietary format may run ahead for a while on a lot of innovation. But as that market control begins to solidify that desire to innovate begins to, to degrade, whereas in the open format. So >>Extract rents versus innovation. Exactly. >>Yeah, exactly. >>But >>I'll say it in the open world, you know, you have to continue to innovate. Yeah. And the open source world is always innovating. If you look at the last 10 to 15 years, I challenge you to find, you know, an example where the innovation in the data and AI world is not coming from open source. And so by investing in open ecosystems, that means you were always going to be at the forefront of what is the >>Latest, you know, again, not to date myself again, but you look back at the eighties and nineties, the protocol stacked for proprietary. Yeah. You know, SNA at IBM deck net was digital, you know, the rest is, and then TCP, I P was part of the open systems, interconnect, revolutionary Oly, a big part of that as well as my school did. And so like, you know, that was, but it didn't standardize the whole stack. It stopped at IP and TCP. Yeah. But that helped interoperate, that created a nice defacto. So this is a big part of this mid game. I call it the chessboard, you know, you got opening game and mid game. Then you got the end game and we're not there. The end game yet cloud the cloud. >>There's, there's always some form of lock in, right. Andy jazzy will, will address it, you know, when making a decision. But if you're gonna make a decision you want to reduce as you don't wanna be limited. Right. So I would advise a customer that there could be limitations with a proprietary architecture. And if you look at what every customer's trying to become right now is an AI driven business. Right? And so it has to do with, can you get that data outta silos? Can you, can you organize it and secure it? And then can you work with data scientists to feed those models? Yeah. In a, in a very consistent manner. And so the tools of tomorrow will to Joel's point will be open and we want interoperability with those >>Tools and, and choice is a matter too. And I would say that, you know, the argument for why I think Amazon is not as locked in as maybe some other clouds is that they have to compete directly too. Redshift competes directly with a lot of other stuff, but they can't play the bundling game because the customers are getting savvy to the fact that if you try to bundle an inferior product with something else, it may not work great at all. And they're gonna be they're onto it. This is >>The Amazon's credit by having these, these solutions that may compete with native services in marketplace, they are providing customers with choice, low >>Price and access to the S and access to the core value. Exactly. Which the >>Hardware, which is their platform. Okay. So I wanna get you guys thought on something else. I, I see emerging, this is again kind of cube rumination moment. So on stage Chris unpacked, a lot of stuff. I mean this marketplace, they're touching a lot of hot buttons here, you know, pricing compensation, workflows services behind the curtain. And one of the things he mentioned was they talk about resellers or channel partners, depending upon what you talk about. We believe Dave and I believe on the cube that the entire indirect sales channel of the industry is gonna be disrupted radically because those players were selling hardware in the old days and software, that game is gonna change. You know, you mentioned you guys have a program, want to get your thoughts on this. We believe that once this gets set up, they can play in this game and bring their services in which means that the old reseller channels are gonna be rewritten. They're gonna be refactored with this new kinds of access. Cuz you've got scale, you've got money and you've got product and you got customers coming into the marketplace. So if you're like a reseller that sold computers to data centers or software, you know, value added reseller or V or business, >>You've gotta evolve. >>You gotta, you gotta be here. Yes. How are you guys working with those partners? Cuz you say you have a part in your marketplace there. How do I make money? If I'm a reseller with data bricks with eight Amazon, take me through that use case. >>Well I'll let Joel comment, but I think it's, it's, it's pretty straightforward, right? Customers need expertise. They need knowhow. When we're seeing customers do mass migrations to the cloud or Hadoop specific migrations or data transformation implementations, they need expertise from consulting and SI partners. If those consulting SI partners happen to resell the solution as well. Well, that's another aspect of their business, but I really think it is the expertise that the partners bring to help customers get outcomes. >>Joel, channel big opportunity for re re Amazon to reimagine this. >>For sure. Yeah. And I think, you know, to your comment about how to resellers take advantage of that, I think what Jack was pushing on is spot on, which is it's becoming more about more and more about the expertise you bring to the table and not just transacting the software, but now actually helping customers make the right choices. And we're seeing, you know, both SI begin to be able to resell solutions and finding a lot of opportunity in that. Yeah. And I think we're seeing traditional resellers begin to move into that SI model as well. And that's gonna be the evolution that >>This gets at the end of the day. It's about services for sure, for sure. You've got a great service. You're gonna have high gross profits. And >>I think that the managed service provider business is alive and well, right? Because there are a number of customers that want that, that type of a service. >>I think that's gonna be a really hot, hot button for you guys. I think being the way you guys are open this channel partner services model coming in to the fold really kind of makes for kind of that super cloudlike experience where you guys now have an ecosystem. And that's my next question. You guys have an ecosystem going on within data bricks for sure. On top of this ecosystem, how does that work? This is kinda like hasn't been written up in business school and case studies yet this is new. What is this? >>I think, you know, what it comes down to is you're seeing ecosystems begin to evolve around the data platforms and that's gonna be one of the big kind of new horizons for us as we think about what drives ecosystems it's going to be around. Well, what is the, what's the data platform that I'm using and then all the tools that have to encircle that to get my business done. And so I think there's, you know, absolutely ecosystems inside of the AWS business on all of AWS's services, across data analytics and AI. And then to your point, you are seeing ecosystems now arise around data bricks in its Lakehouse platform, as well as customers are looking at well, if I'm standing these Lakehouse up and I'm beginning to invest in this, then I need a whole set of tools that help me get that done as well. >>I mean you think about ecosystem theory, we're living a whole nother dream and I'm, and I'm not kidding. It hasn't yet been written up and for business school case studies is that we're now in a whole nother connective tissue ecology thing happening where you have dependencies and value proposition economics connectedness. So you have relationships in these ecosystems. >>And I think one of the great things about relationships with these ecosystems is that there's a high degree of overlap. Yeah. So you're seeing that, you know, the way that the cloud business is evolving, the, the ecosystem partners of data bricks are the same ecosystem partners of AWS. And so as you build these platforms out into the cloud, you're able to really take advantage of best of breed, the broadest set of solutions out there for >>You. Joel, Jack, I love it because you know what it means the best ecosystem will win. If you keep it open. Sure. You can see everything. If you're gonna do it in the dark, you know, you don't know the outcome. I mean, this is really kind we're talking about. >>And John, can I just add that when I was in Amazon, we had a, a theory that there's buyers and builders, right? There's very innovative companies that want to build things themselves. We're seeing now that that builders want to buy a platform. Right? Yeah. And so there's a platform decision being made and that ecosystem gonna evolve around the >>Platform. Yeah. And I totally agree. And, and, and the word innovation get kicks around. That's why, you know, when we had our super cloud panel was called the innovators dilemma with a slash through it called the integrated dilemma, innovation is the digital transformation. So absolutely like that becomes cliche in a way, but it really becomes more of a, are you open? Are you integrating if APIs are the connective tissue, what's automation, what's the service message look like. I mean, a whole nother set of kind of thinking goes on and these new ecosystems and these new products >>And that, and that thinking is, has been born in Delta sharing. Right? So the idea that you can have a multi-cloud implementation of data bricks, and actually share data between those two different clouds, that is the next layer on top of the native cloud >>Solution. Well, data bricks has done a good job of building on top of the goodness of, and the CapEx gift from AWS. But you guys have done a great job taking that building differentiation into the product. You guys have great customer base, great grow ecosystem. And again, I think in a shining example of what every enterprise is going to do, build on top of something operating model, get that operating model, driving revenue. >>Yeah. >>Well we, whether whether you're Goldman Sachs or capital one or XYZ corporation >>S and P global NASDAQ, right. We've got, you know, these, the biggest verticals in the world are solving tough problems with data breaks. I think we'd be remiss cuz if Ali was here, he would really want to thank Amazon for all of the investments across all of the different functions, whether it's the relationship we have with our engineering and service teams. Yeah. Our marketing teams, you know, product development and we're gonna be at reinvent the big presence of reinvent. We're looking forward to seeing you there again. >>Yeah. We'll see you guys there. Yeah. Again, good ecosystem. I love the ecosystem evolutions happening this next gen cloud is here. We're seeing this evolve kind of new economics, new value propositions kind of scaling up, producing more so you guys are doing a great job. Thanks for coming on the Cuban, taking time. Chill. Great to see you at the check. Thanks for having us. Thanks. Going. Okay. Cube coverage here. The world's changing as APN comes to give the marketplace for a new partner organization at Amazon web services, the Cube's got a covered. This should be a very big growing ecosystem as this continues, billions of being sold through the marketplace. Of course the buyers are happy as well. So we've got it all covered. I'm John furry, your host of the cube. Thanks for watching.

>>Welcome back everyone to the cubes coverage here in Seattle, Washington for AWS's marketplace seller conference. The big news here is that the Amazon partner network and marketplace coming together and reorganizing into one organization, the AIST partner organization, APO bringing together the best of the partnership and the marketplace to sell through. It's a sellers company. This is the second year, but technically with COVID, I call it a year and a half. This is the cube. I'm John for your host. Got a great guest, Leah for sale vice president of business development at four square. Leah, thanks for coming on the cube. Look great. Yeah. >>Hey, thanks. Thanks for having me here. >>So four square, everyone, and that has internet history knows you. You check in you'd become the mayor of a place right back in the day, all fun. It was a great app and I think it was competitor go sold the Facebook, but that was the beginning of location data. Now you got Uber apps, you got all apps, location, everywhere. Data is big here in the marketplace. They sell data, they got a data exchange, Chris head of marketplaces. Like we have all these things we're gonna bring 'em together, make it simpler. So you're on the data side. I'm assuming you're selling data and you're participating at the data exchange. What is Foursquare doing right now? Yeah, >>Exactly. So we are part of the data exchange. And you mentioned checking in. So we, we are really proud of our roots, the, the four square app, and that's kind of the basis still of our business. We have a hundred million data points, which are actually places of interest across the world 200 countries. And we are we're in the business of understanding whereplace are and how people move through those places over time. And >>What's the value proposition for that data. You're selling the data. >>We are selling the data and we're selling it. You can think about use cases. Like how can I improve the engagement with my app through location data? So for example, next door, as a customer of ours, everyone knows next door. When a new business comes online, they wanna make sure that business is a real business. So they use our places to ensure that the address of that business is accurate. >>So how did you, how do you guys get your data? Because if you don't have the first party app, you probably had critical mass of data. Yeah. But then do other people use your data and then re contribute back in kinda like, well, Stripe is for financial. You guys are plugging in yeah. To >>Apps. A great question. So we still do have our consumer apps. We're still proud of those. It's still a basis of our company really. Okay. So, but we take that data. So our first party data, we also, for all the web, we have some partners integrate our SDK. And so we're pulling in all that data from various sources and then scrubbing it and making sure we have the most unique. >>So you guys still have a business where the app's working. Yep. Okay. But also let's just say, I wanna have a cube app. Yeah. And I want to do a check in button. Yep. So rather than build checking in, could I OEM you could four square is that you >>Could, and we could help you understand where people are checking in. So we know someone's here at the Hilton and Bellevue, we know exactly where that place is. You building the Cub app. You could say, I'm gonna check in here and we are verified. We know that that's the >>Right place. So that's a good for developer if they're building an app. >>Absolutely. So we have an SDK that any developer can integrate. >>Great. Okay. So what's the relationship with the marketplace? Take us through how Foursquare works with AWS marketplace. >>Sure. So we are primarily integrated with ADX, which is sort of a piece of marketplace it's for data specifically, we have both of our main products, which are places that POI database and visits, which is how people move through those places over time. So we're able to say these are the top chains in the country. Here's how people move throughout those. And both those products are listed on ADX. >>So if I'm in Palo Alto and I go to Joe in the juice yeah. You know that I kind of hang in one spot or is it privacy there? I mean, how do you know like what goes on? Well, >>We know somebody does that. We don't >>Know that you do that. So >>We ensure, you know, we're very privacy centric and privacy focused. We're not gonna, we don't tell anybody at you >>Yourself it's pattern data. It is. >>Okay. So it's normalized data, right? Over time groups of people, >>How they, how are people using the data to improve processes, user experience? What are some of the use cases? >>So that example, nextdoor, that's really a use case that we see a lot and that's improving their application. So that nextdoor app to ensure that the ACC, the data's accurate and that as you, as a user, you know, that that business is real. Cuz it's verified by four wear. Another one is you can use our data to make business decisions around where you're gonna place your next loca. You know, your next QSR. So young brands is a customer of ours. Those are, those guys are pizza hut KFC. They work with us to figure out where they should put their next KFC. Yeah. >>I mean retail location, location, location. Yeah. >>Right. Yeah. People are still, even though e-commerce right. People still go into stores >>And still are. Yeah. There's, there's, there's probably lot, a lot of math involved in knowing demographics patterns. Volume. >>Yeah. Some of our key customers are really data scientists. Like the think about cus with businesses that have true data science companies. They're really looking at that. >>Yeah. I mean in, and out's on the exit for a reason. Right. They want in and out. Yeah. So they wanna put it inland. >>Right. And we can actually tell you where that customer from in and out where they go next. Right. So then, you know, oh, they go to this park or they go somewhere and we can help you place your next in and out based on that visitation. >>Yeah. And so it's real science involved. So take us through the customers. You said data scientists, >>Mostly data scientists is kind of a key customer data science at a large corporation, like a QSR that's >>Somebody. Okay. So how is the procurement process on the marketplace? What does the buyer get? >>So what we see the real value is, is because they're already a customer of Amazon. That procurement is really easy, right? All the fulfillment goes through Amazon, through ADX. And what you're buying is either at API. So you can, that API can make real time calls or you're buying a flat file, like an actual database of those hundred points of interest. >>And then they integrate into their tool set. Right. They can do it. So it's pretty data friendly in terms of format. >>You can kind of do whatever you want with it. We're gonna give you that as long as you're smart enough to figure out what to do. Do we have a >>Lot of, so what's your experience with AWS marketplace? I mean, obviously we, we see a lot of changes. They had a reorg partner network merging with marketplace. You've been more on the data exchange, Chris kind of called that out. It's yeah. It's kind of a new thing. And, and he was hinting at a lot of confusion, but simplifying things. Yeah. What's your take of the current AWS marketplace >>Religions? I actually think ADX because our experience has primarily been ADX. I think they've done a really good job. They've really focused on the data and they understand how CU, how, you know, people like us sell our data. It hasn't been super confusing. We've had a lot of support. I think that's what Amazon gives you. You have to put a lot of effort into it, but they're also, they also give you a lot of support. >>Yeah. And, and I think data exchange is pretty significant to the strategic. It is >>Mission. It is. We feel that. Yeah. You know, we feel like they really value us as a partner. >>What's the big thing you're seeing out there right now in data, because like you're seeing a lot more data exchanges going on. There's always been data exchange, but you're seeing a lot more exchanges between companies. So let's just take partners. You're seeing a lot more people handle front end of a, a supply chain and you got more data exchanges. What's the future of data exchanges. If you had to kind of, you know, guess given your history in, in the industry. Yeah. What's the next around the corner trend? >>I think. Well, I think there's a, has to be consolidation. I know everyone's building one, but there's probably too many. I know from our experience, we can't support all of them. We're not a huge company. We can't support Amazon and X and Y and Z. Like it's just too many. So we kind of put all of our eggs in a couple baskets. So I think there'll be consolidation. I think there has to be just some innovation on what data products are, you know, for us, we have these two, it's an API and a flat file. I think as exchanges think about, you know, expanding what are the other types of data products that can help us build? >>Yeah. I mean, one of the things that's, you know, we see, we cover a lot of on the cube is edge. You know, you got, yeah. Amazon putting out new products in regions, you got new wavelength out there, you got regions, you got city level connectivity, data coming from cars. So a lot more IOT data. How do you guys see that folding into your vision of data acquisition and data usage, leverage, reuse, durability. These >>Are, yeah. I mean, we're, we are keeping an eye on all of that. You know, I think we haven't quite figured out how we wanna allocate resources against it, but you know, it's definitely, it's a really interesting space to be in. Like, I don't think data's going anywhere and I think it's really just gonna grow and how people use it's >>Gonna expand. Okay. So if I'm a customer, I go to the marketplace, I wanna buy four square data. What's the pitch. >>We can help you improve your business decisions or your applications through location data. We know where places are and how people move through the world over time. So we can tell you we're, we're sure that this is the Hilton in Bellevue. We know that, that we know how many people are moving through here and that's really the pitch. >>And they use that for whatever their needs are, business improvement, user experience. Yeah. >>Those are really the primary. I mean, we also have some financial use cases. So hedge funds, maybe they're thinking about yeah. How they wanna invest their money. They're gonna look at visits over time to understand what people are doing. Right. The pandemic made that super important. >>Yeah. That's awesome. Well, this is great. Great success story. Congratulations. And thanks for sharing on the cube. Really appreciate you coming on. Thank you. My final question is more about kind of the future. I wanna get your thoughts because your season pro, when you have the confluence of physical and digital coming together. Yeah. You know, I was just talking with a friend about FedEx's earnings, comparing that to say, AWS has a fleet of delivery too. Right? Amazon, Amazon nots. So, but physical world only products location matters. But then what about the person when they're walking around the real world? What happens when they get to the metaverses or, you know, they get to digital, they tend an event. Yeah. How do you see that crossroad? Cuz you have foot in both camps. We do, you got the app and you got the physical world it's gonna come together. Is there thoughts around, you can take your course care hat off and put your industry hat on. Yeah. You wanna answer that? Not officially on behalf of Foursquare, but I'm just curious, this is a, this is the confluence of like the blending of physical and digital. >>Yeah. I know. Wow. I admittedly haven't thought a whole lot about that. I think it would be really weird if I could track myself over time and the metaverse I mean, I think, yeah, as you said, it's >>It's, by the way, I'm not Bo on the metaverse when it's blocked diagrams, when you have gaming platforms that are like the best visual experience possible, right? >>Yeah. I mean, I think it, I think we'll see, I don't, I don't know that I have a >>Prediction, well hybrid we've seeing a lot of hybrid events. Like this event is still intimate VIP, but next year I guarantee it's gonna be larger, much larger and it's gonna be physical and face to face, but, but digital right as well. Yeah. Not people experiencing the, both that first party, physical, digital hybrid. Yeah. And it's interesting something that we track a lot >>Of. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think we'll have a, well, I think we'll, there's something there for us. I think that those there's a play there as we watch kind >>Of things change. All right, Leah, thank you for coming on the Q appreciate so much it all right. With four Graham, John fur a year checking in with four square here on the cube here at the Amazon web services marketplace seller conference. Second year back from the pandemic in person, more coverage after this break.

(upbeat electronic music) >> Welcome back to everyone, to "theCUBE's" coverage here in Seattle, Washington for Amazon Web Services Partner Marketplace Seller Conference, combining their partner network with Marketplace forming a new organization called AWS Partner Organization. This is "theCUBE" coverage. I'm John Furrier, your host. We've got great "Cube" alumni here from Zscaler, a very successful cloud company doing great work. Stelio D'Alo, senior director of cloud business development and Raveesh Chugh, VP of Public Cloud Partnerships at Zscaler. Welcome back to "theCUBE." Good to see you guys. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Thanks having us, John. >> So we've been doing a lot of coverage of Zscaler, what a great success story. I mean, the numbers are great. The business performance, it's in the top two, three, one, two, three in all metrics on public companies, SaaS. So you guys, check. Good job. >> Yes, thank you. >> So you guys have done a good job. Now you're here, selling through the Marketplace. You guys are a world class performing company in cloud SaaS, so you're in the front lines doing well. Now, Marketplace is a procurement front end opportunity for people to buy. Hey, self-service, buy and put things together. Sounds novel, what a great concept. Great cloud life. >> Yes. >> You guys are participating and now sellers are coming together. The merger of the public, the partner network with Marketplace. It feels like this is a second act for AWS to go to the next level. They got their training wheels done with partners. Now they're going to the next level. What do you guys think about this? >> Well, I think you're right, John. I think it is very much something that is in keeping with the way AWS does business. Very Amazonian, they're working back from the customer. What we're seeing is, our customers and in general, the market is gravitating towards purchase mechanisms and route to market that just are lower friction. So in the same way that companies are going through their digital transformations now, really modernizing the way they host applications and they reach the internet. They're also modernizing on the purchasing side, which is super exciting, because we're all motivated to help customers with that agility. >> You know, it's fun to watch and again I'm being really candid and props to you guys as a company. Now, everyone else is kind of following that. Okay, lift and shift, check, doing some things. Now they go, whoa, I can really build on this. People are building their own apps for their companies. Going to build their own stuff. They're going to use piece parts. They're going to put it together in a really scalable way. That's the new normal. Okay, so now they go okay, I'm going to just buy through the market, I get purchasing power. So you guys have been a real leader with AWS. Can you share what you guys are doing in the Marketplace? I think you guys are a nice example of how to execute the Marketplace. Take us through. What are you guys offering there? What's the contract look like? Is it multi-pronged? What's the approach? What do customers get if they go to the marketplace for Zscaler? >> Yeah, so it's been a very exciting story and been a very pleasing one for us with AWS marketplace. We see a huge growth potentially. There are more than 350,000 customers that are actively buying through Marketplace today. We expect that number to grow to around a million customers by the next, I would say, five to ten years and we want to be part of this wave. We see AWS Marketplace to be a channel where not only our resalers or our channel partners can come and transact, but also our GSIs like Accenture want to transact through this channel. We are doing a lot, in terms of bringing new customers through Marketplace, who want to not only close their deals, but close it in the next few hours. That's the beauty of Marketplace, the agility, the flexibility in terms of pricing that it provides to ISVs like us. If a customer wants to delay their payments by a couple of quarters, Marketplace supports that. If a customer wants to do monthly payments, Marketplace supports that. We are seeing lot of customers, big customers, that have signed EDPs, enterprise discount plans with AWS. These are multi-year cloud commits coming to us and saying we can retire our EDPs with AWS if we transact your solution through AWS Marketplace. So what we have done, as of today, we have all of our production services enabled through AWS Marketplace. What that means for customers, they can now retire their EDPs by buying Zscaler products through AWS Marketplace and in return get the full benefit of maximizing their EDP commits with AWS. >> So you guys are fully committed, no toe on the water, as we heard. You guys are all in. >> Absolutely, that's exactly the way to put it. We're all in, all of our solutions are available in the marketplace. As you mentioned, we're a SaaS provider. So we're one of the vendors in the Marketplace that have SaaS solutions. So unlike a lot of customers and even the market in general, associate the Marketplace for historical reasons, the way it started with a lot of monthly subscriptions and just dipping your toe in it from a consumer perspective. Whereas we're doing multimillion dollar, multi-year SaaS contracts. So the most complicated kinds of transactions you'd normally associate with enterprise software, we're doing in very low friction ways. >> On the Zscaler side going in low friction. >> Yep, yeah, that's right. >> How about the customer experience? >> So it is primarily the the customer that experiences. >> Driving it? >> Yeah, they're driving it and it's because rather than traditional methods of going through paperwork, purchase orders- >> What are some of the things that customers are saying about this, bcause I see two benefits, I'll say that. The friction, it's a channel, okay, for Zscaler. Let's be clear, but now you have a customer who's got a lot of Amazon. They're a trusted partner too. So why wouldn't they want to have one point of contact to use their purchasing power and you guys are okay with that. >> We're absolutely okay with it. The reason being, we're still doing the transaction and we can do the transaction with our... We're a channel first company, so that's another important distinction of how people tend to think of the Marketplace. We go through channel. A lot of our transactions are with traditional channel partners and you'd be surprised the kinds of, even the Telcos, carrier providers, are starting to embrace Marketplace. So from a customer perspective, it's less paperwork, less legal work. >> Yeah, I'd love to get your reaction to something, because I think this highlights to me what we've been reporting on with "theCUBE" with super cloud and other trends that are different in a good way. Taking it to the next level and that is that if you look at Zscaler, SaaS, SaaS is self-service, the scale, there's efficiencies. Marketplace first started out as a self-service catalog, a website, you know, click and choose, but now it's a different. He calls it a supply chain, like the CICD pipeline of buying software. He mentions that, there's also services. He put the Channel partners can come in. The GSIs, global system integrators can come in. So it's more than just a catalog now. It's kind of self-service procurement more than it is just a catalog of buy stuff. >> Yes, so yeah, I feel CEOs, CSOs of today should understand what Marketplace brings to the bear in terms of different kinds of services or Zscaler solutions that they can acquire through Marketplace and other ISV solutions, for that matter. I feel like we are at a point, after the pandemic, where there'll be a lot of digital exploration and companies can do more in terms of not just Marketplace, but also including the channel partners as part of deals. So you talked about channel conflict. AWS addressed this by bringing a program called CPPO in the picture, Channel Partner Private Offers. What that does is, we are not only bringing all our channel partners into deals. For renewals as well, they're the partner of record and they get paid alongside with the customer. So AWS does all the heavy lifting, in terms of disbursements of payments to us, to the channel partner, so it's a win-win situation for all. >> I mean, private offers and co-sale has been very popular. >> It has been, and that is our bread and butter in the Marketplace. Again, we do primarily three year contracts and so private offers work super well. A nice thing for us as a vendor is it provides a great amount of flexibility. Private Offer gives you a lot of optionality, in terms of how the constructs of the deal and whether or not you're working with a partner, how the partner is utilizing as well to resell to the end user. So, we've always talked about AWS giving IT agility. This gives purchasing and finance business agility. >> Yeah, and I think this comes up a lot. I just noticed this happening a lot more, where you see dedicated sessions, not just on DevOps and all the goodies of the cloud, financial strategy. >> Yeah. >> Seeing a lot more conversation around how to operationalize the business transactions in the cloud. >> Absolutely. >> This is the new, I mean it's not new, it's been thrown around, but not at a tech conference. You don't see that. So I got to ask you guys, what's the message to the CISOs and executives watching the business people about Zscaler in the Marketplace? What should they be looking at? What is the pitch for Zscaler for the Marketplace buyer? >> So I would say that we are a cloud-delivered network security service. We have been in this game for more than a decade. We have years of early head start with lots of features and functionality versus our competitors. If customers were to move into AWS Cloud, they can get rid of their next-gen firewalls and just have all the traffic routed through our Zscaler internet access and use Zscaler private access for accessing their private applications. We feel we have done everything in our capacity, in terms of enabling customers through Marketplace and will continue to participate in more features and functionality that Marketplace has to offer. We would like these customers to take advantage of their EDPs as well as their retirement and spend for the multi-commit through AWS Marketplace. Learn about what we have to offer and how we can really expedite the motion for them, if they want to procure our solutions through Marketplace >> You know, we're seeing an ability for them to get more creative, more progressive in terms of the purchasing. We're also doing, we're really excited about the ability to serve multiple markets. So we've had an immense amount of success in commercial. We also are seeing increasing amount of public sector, US federal government agencies that want to procure this way as well for the same reasons. So there's a lot of innovation going on. >> So you have the FedRAMP going on, you got all those certifications. >> Exactly right. So we are the first cloud-native solution to provide IL5 ATO, as well as FedRAMP pie and we make that all available, GSA schedule pricing through the AWS Marketplace, again through FSIs and other resellers. >> Public private partnerships have been a big factor, having that span of capability. I got to ask you about, this is a cool conversation, because now you're like, okay, I'm selling through the Marketplace. Companies themselves are changing how they operate. They don't just buy software that we used to use. So general purpose, bundled stuff. Oh yeah, I'm buying this product, because this has got a great solution and I have to get forced to use this firewall, because I bought this over here. That's not how companies are architecting and developing their businesses. It's no longer buying IT. They're building their company digitally. They have to be the application. So they're not sitting around, saying hey, can I get a solution? They're building and architecting their solution. This is kind of like the new enterprise that no one's talking about. They kind of, got to do their own work. >> Yes. >> There's no general purpose solution that maps every company. So they got to pick the best piece parts and integrate them. >> Yes and I feel- >> Do you guys agree with that? >> Yeah, I agree with that and customers don't want to go for point solutions anymore. They want to go with a platform approach. They want go with a vendor that can not only cut down their vendors from multi-dozens to maybe a dozen or less and that's where, you know, we kind of have pivoted to the platform-centric approach, where we not only help customers with Cloud Network Security, but we also help customers with Cloud Native Application Protection Platform that we just recently launched. It's going by the name of the different elements, including Cloud Security Posture Management, Cloud Identity Event Management and so we are continuously doing more and more on the configuration and vulnerability side space. So if a customer has an AWS S3 bucket that is opened it can be detected and can be remediated. So all of those proactive steps we are taking, in terms of enhancing our portfolio, but we have come a long way as a company, as a platform that we have evolved in the Marketplace. >> What's the hottest product? >> The hottest product? >> In Marketplace right now. >> Well, the fastest growing products include our digital experience products and we have new Cloud Protection. So we've got Posture and Workload Protection as well and those are the fastest growing. For AWS customers a strong affinity also for ZPA, which provides you zero trust access to your workloads on AWS. So those are all the most popular in Marketplace. >> Yeah. >> So I would like to add that we recently launched and this has been a few years, a couple of years. We launched a product called Zscaler Digital X, the ZDX. >> Mm-hmm. >> What that product does is, let's say you're making a Zoom call and your WiFi network is laggy or it's a Zoom server that's laggy. It kind of detects where is the problem and it further tells the IT department you need to fix either the server on which Zoom is running, or fix your home network. So that is the beauty of the product. So I think we are seeing massive growth with some of our new editions in the portfolio, which is a long time coming. >> Yeah and certainly a lot of growth opportunities for you guys, as you come in. Where do you see Zscaler's big growth coming from product-wise? What's the big push? Actually, this is great upside for you here. >> Yeah. >> On the go to market side. Where's the big growth for Zscaler right now? So I think we are focused as a company on zero trust architecture. We want to securely connect users to apps, apps to apps, workloads to workloads and machines to machines. We want to give customers an experience where they have direct access to the apps that's hidden from the outside world and they can securely connect to the apps in a very succinct fashion. The user experience is second to none. A lot of customers use us on the Microsoft Office 365 side, where they see a lag in connecting to Microsoft Office 365 directly. They use the IE service to securely connect. >> Yeah, latency kills. >> Microsoft Office 365. >> Latency kills, as we always say, you know and security, you got to look at the pattern, you want to see that data. >> Yeah, and emerging use cases, there is an immense amount of white space and upside for us as well in emerging use cases, like OT, 5G, IOT. >> Yeah. >> Federal government, DOD. >> Oh god, tactical edge government. >> Security at the edge, absolutely, yeah. >> Where's the big edge? What's the edge challenge right now, if you have to put your finger on the edge, because right now that's the hot area, we're watching that. It's going to be highly contested. It's not yet clear, I mean certainly hybrid is the operating model, cloud, distributing, computing, but edge has got unique things that you can't really point to on premises that's the same. It's highly dynamic, you need high bandwidth, low latency, compute at the edge. The data has to be processed right there. What's the big thing at the edge right now? >> Well, so that's probably an emerging answer. I mean, we're working with our customers, they're inventing and they're kind of finding the use cases for those edge, but one of the good things about Zscaler is that we are able to, we've got low latency at the edge. We're able to work as a computer at the edge. We work on Outpost, Snowball, Snowcone, the Snow devices. So we can be wherever our customers need us. Mobile devices, there are a lot of applications where we've got to be either on embedded devices, on tractors, providing security for those IOT devices. So we're pretty comfortable with where we are being the- >> So that's why you guys are financially doing so well, performance wise. I got to ask you though, because I think that brings up the great point. If this is why I like the Marketplace, if I'm a customer, the edge is highly dynamic. It's changing all the time. I don't want to wait to buy something. If I got my solution architects on a product, I need to know I'm going to have zero trust built in and I need to push the button on Zscaler. I don't want to wait. So how does the procurement side impact? What have you guys seen? Share your thoughts on how Marketplace is working from the procurement standpoint, because it seems to me to be fast. Is that right, or is it still slow on their side? On the buyer side, because this to me would be a benefit to developers, if we say, hey, the procurement can just go really fast. I don't want to go through a bunch of PO approvals or slow meetings. >> It can be, that manifests itself in several ways, John. It can be, for instance, somebody wants to do a POC and traditionally you could take any amount of time to get budget approval, take it through. What if you had a pre-approved cloud budget and that was spent primarily through AWS Marketplace, because it's consolidated data on your AWS invoice. The ability to purchase a POC on the Marketplace could be done literally within minutes of the decision being made to go forward with it. So that's kind of a front end, you know, early stage use case. We've got examples we didn't talk about on our recent earnings call of how we have helped customers bring in their procurement with large million dollar, multimillion dollar deals. Even when a resaler's been involved, one of our resaler partners. Being able to accelerate deals, because there's so much less legal work and traditional bureaucratic effort. >> Agility. >> That agility purchasing process has allowed our customers to pull into the quarter, or the end of month, or end of quarter for them, deals that would've otherwise not been able to be done. >> So this is a great example of where you can set policy and kind of create some guard rails around innovation and integration deals, knowing if it's something that the edge is happening, say okay, here's some budget. We approved it, or Amazon gives credits and partnership going on. Then I'd say, hey, well green light this, not to exceed a million dollars, or whatever number in their range and then let people have the freedom to execute. >> You're absolutely right, so from the purchasing side, it does give them that agility. It eliminates a lot of the processes that would push out a purchase in actual execution past when the business decision is made and quite frankly, to be honest, AWS has been very accommodative. They're a great partner. They've invested a lot in Marketplace, Marketplace programs, to help customers do the right thing and do it more quickly as well as vendors like us to help our customers make the decisions they need to. >> Rising tide, a rising tide floats all boats and you guys are a great example of an independent company. Highly successful on your own. >> Yep. >> Certainly the numbers are clear. Wall Street loves Zscaler and economics are great. >> Our customer CSAT numbers are off the scale as well. >> Customers are great and now you've got the Marketplace. This is again, a new normal. A new kind of ecosystem is developing where it's not like the old monolithic ecosystems. The value creation and extraction is happening differently now. It's kind of interesting. >> Yes and I feel we have a long way to go, but what I can tell you is that Zscaler is in this for the long run. We are seeing some of the competitors erupt in the space as well, but they have a long way to go. What we have built requires years worth of R&D and features and thousands of customer's use cases which kind of lead to something what Zscaler has come up with today. What we have is very unique and is going to continuously be an innovation in the market in the years to come. In terms of being more cloud-savvy or more cloud-focused or more cloud-native than what the market has seen so far in the form of next-gen firewalls. >> I know you guys have got a lot of AI work. We've had many conversations with Howie over there. Great stuff and really appreciate you guys participating in our super cloud event we had and we'll see more of that where we're talking about the next generation clouds, really enabling that new disruptive, open-spanning capabilities across multiple environments to run cloud-native modern applications at scale and secure. Appreciate your time to come on "theCUBE". >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thanks, I totally appreciate it. Zscaler, leading company here on "theCUBE" talking about their relationship with Marketplace as they continue to grow and succeed as technology goes to the next level in the cloud. Of course "theCUBE's" covering it here in Seattle. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. (peaceful electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS reinvent 2021, I'm Lisa Martin. This is day four for theCUBE. We have two live sets, I'm here with Dave Nicholson, Dave two live sets, 100 guests on theCUBE for AWS Re:Invent 2021. >> Not all at the same time. >> Not all-- That's a good, he brings up a good point, not all at the same time, we are pleased to welcome Gretchen Peri who's going to be sitting down and chatting with Dave with me next. She is from Slalom, at the US State Local and Education, SLED leader. We're going to be talking about Slalom and AWS digital innovation in the public sector. Gretchen, it's a pleasure to have you on the program. >> Thank you for having me. >> For the audience that might not be familiar with Slalom before we dig into AWS and SLED in particular, talk to us about Slalom and what it is that you guys do. >> I'd love to. So Slalom's a modern business and technology consulting firm. We're headquartered in Seattle Washington, we have about 11,000 employees across 40 markets globally. And what's different about Slalom is we're local model firm, so our consultants live and work in the same locale, which means we're personally invested in our client's outcomes because they impact us directly in the communities in which we live. >> And you've been in a leader in SLED for a long time, talk to us about what's going on on SLED these days. Obviously the last 18, 22 months have been quite dynamic, but what's going on in the market? >> Absolutely. What we're seeing is an extra emphasis on data data data, obviously, data is king and data is queen right now, right? So when the pandemic hit, we saw a ton of digital innovation, as our SLED clients needed to get their services online. That had been going on for a long time but it absolutely accelerated when then pandemic it and then it was a public health hazard, to ask people to come into the location. So what we saw was for constituents, we saw just absolute blast of omni-channel service delivery, so we saw the advent of SMS and chat bots and the more tech services, right? Leveraging AWS Lex and Transcribe and other services of AWS really helped our SLED clients react to the pandemic and respond to make sure that their constituents were receiving the digital services they needed, and their employees were able to be productive at home. >> Well, that was one of the keys the employee productivity, the student productivity, when everything's went remote overnight, one of the most challenging things was the demand for collaboration tools. Then of course, there's security challenges, there was concerns there, but talk to us about, and we've seen so much innovation out of AWS in the last, I mean always, but even what they announced the last couple of days, the innovation flywheel of AWS is probably stronger than ever enabling organizations like SLED, FED, private sector, public sector to be data-driven. >> Absolutely. One thing that's really exciting right now is to see the evolution of how our SLED customers are thinking about data. So we've been working on like integrated visions in SLED for a long time, integrated justice, integrated health care, integrated eligibility, how do we bring all this information together so that we can supply the right information to the right people at the right time to deliver the right outcomes? And AWS has been a huge part of that. It's not the journey to get to the cloud, it's the destination once you get there, right? Because then you can leverage all their AIML tools, IOT, edge, container, blockchain. And so our customers, who have already made that switch to AWS, they're able to take advantage of that. It's not what you can do in the cloud anymore is what you can't do without it really, right? So we're seeing tons of advances, intelligent document processing is one area I'm really excited about for our SLED clients, and working very closely with AWS to make sure that we see our clients adopt that and achieve the value out of it. >> AWS is dominating the IT space, although what five to 15% of IT is in the cloud, which means the vast majority is still on premises. So there's a huge potential for growth. In this sort of wild, wild west that we're in, there are all sorts of different kinds of services and consultancy partners, that are seeking to bridge the gap between the technology that AWS delivers and the outcomes that customers desire. >> Right. >> Now I've had a couple of experiences actually with Slalom folks, that were very, very positive. And what I saw was that the Slalom people were embedded in a way that you don't see some other consultancies embedded. You mentioned that something that piqued my interest, you talked about the local nature, is that your superpower? Because it sure seemed to be powerful to see this person where some of these very, very large global companies had no idea who Slalom was, until they realized that Sally was the one who had the best relationship with the customer. So Sally's a fictitious name that I just came up with, but I want to hear a little more about Slalom and your superpower and your differentiation. 'Cause it's a crowded space, you've got global systems integrators, you got all kinds of people. What makes you special? >> It's really the breadth of professional services that we provide, combined with AWS's cloud technologies and services. What we do I think a little bit differently is whereas AWS works back from the customer, we work back from our customer's vision. And so what we do with our, especially with our SLED clients, but with all of our commercial clients, is we say, what is your business strategy and your business vision, and how do we design the technology solutions, working back from that. So you're able to answer the business questions through data-driven tech technology, that's really important to you. And when we look at that, it's not just generating data to create information to then garner insights, but let's go one step further. And how do we create knowledge and how do we create wisdom this space, right? Where we understand situational awareness, common operating pictures, that's really what we want to do. When we talk about criminal justice and public safety, I love how we're thinking about joining data in new and different ways. It's not necessarily applications anymore, right? How do we create data as a service? How do we create documents as a service? Where we're pulling out the exact information that we need from semi-structured, structured and unstructured data and providing it to the right people to make the right decisions. >> Talk to us about intelligent document processing, a lot of buzz going on with that. What is it? Where are public sector agencies in terms of embracing it, adopting it and having it be part of that vision? >> Yeah, the promise is huge for IDP. What IDP is basically is leveraging AWS AI services to create intelligent automation solutions that help extract information from printed documents, digital documents, paper documents, right? So leveraging AWS services like Amazon Textract, Comprehend, Augmented AI, things like, and Kendra. What that does in combination, is it helps our clients unlock the data from, you can imagine government, it's heavy, heavy documents, and in criminal justice and public safety in particular, these documents represent key milestones and processes, right? So we're never going to get rid of documents in SLED, they're going to be used in perpetuity, it's important for accessibility and practicality and everything else. But what this does is it lets us unlock the data from those kind of stale documents and create it into usable formats for so that people can make decisions. >> That's critical because there's, I mean, we talk about in Amazon, AWS been this week have been talking about it and Dave, we have too. Every company, public sector, private sector, it needs to be a data-driven company, but they need to be able to extract that value from the data and the data isn't just digital. And that's something that, to your point, that's going to be persistent within SLED, they have to be able to extract the value from it quickly. >> Yes. >> To be able to see what new products and services can we deliver? What directions should we be going? And what outcomes should we be driving based on that visibility? And that visibility is critical. >> Exactly. And right now we absolutely have to support our communities. And we have a lot of our slide clients who are talking about this is a time where we don't just respond in a way that helps people kind of navigate this pandemic, we have to build resiliency as well in our communities and we do that through helping people through these hard times and making sure that we're moving our services to places where people can access them, in any language from wherever they are, right? We're having to actually go into people's homes on their couches, to deliver government services. Where we used to bring them into a single location. >> Right. >> Typically public sector has often been seen as lagging behind the private sector in some ways, the pandemic, as I'm sure ignited a fire with, especially with federal acknowledgement of things that need to happen, budgets flowing, are you seeing even more of an awakening from a cloud perspective within public sector? >> We are, we are and we're seeing really interesting initiatives pop up like, behavioral health initiatives, that are meant to address some really serious concerns in our country like nationwide 988 suicide prevention projects, right? And the federal government is providing a lot of funding to states and local governments so that they can help take care of our communities and also make sure that we're moving our services online so everyone can access them. >> I'm curious about that point, the funding. >> Yeah. >> Do you find yourself almost in the position of prize patrol? Where were some of the state local governments aren't necessarily as aware as Slalom might be of programs that are coming down immediately. Is that part of the conversation? >> It is part of the conv-- That's a great point because what we do is we look at what's coming down from the federal government, how is it going to flow to the states? How is it going to land ultimately, and then helping governments come up with a strategy for how to spend that money in the right way is really important, right? And we saw with some of the funding that come out, that there were delays on getting like eviction prevention funding out to folks. And so making sure that we have the technology to support those outcomes. >> It's all about outcomes. >> Yes. >> Speaking of outcomes, something I want to congratulate Slalom on is winning the first ever National Essay Partner of the Year for the US. >> Yes. >> Nice. >> That's awesome, congratulations. >> What does that mean for Slalom and what direction can we expect the Slalom and AWS partnership to go? >> Up and up. >> To the right? >> Yes. For us it's about validating the relationship that we have, right? It's really, when we walk into a client conversation, what we want to do is develop trust that our clients know we're looking for their best interest and their best outcomes. We're not trying to sell them something we're trying to solve their problems together. And it validates that for us, our partnership with AWS obviously is so important. And what we're doing in terms of making sure that we have a strong bench full of certifications and we can go to market together in the right way for our clients. This is a huge award and the recognition is very powerful for us. >> Well, congratulations. And so last question, you mentioned AWS and we always talk about when we talk with them at their event, we talk about their customer obsession, right? They work backwards, as you said, from the customer. And you guys from customer vision. Talk to me about when you go in jointly together, work with the customer, what does that alignment look like? >> Absolutely. So what we typically do is, Slalom will focus on what is the business outcome that we want to generate? And we will help design, how are we going to go about solving that problem? And how is AWS going to help support us with enabling technology? And so we will go into client conversations together, say, what is the outcome we want from this initiative together? And how are both partners going to get aligned to support the client in that conversation, in that product. >> That alignment is (indistinct). Gretchen, thank you for joining Dave and me today, talking about Slalom, what you guys are doing, how you're really helping organizations in SLED transform and not just survive challenging time but really thrive and be data-driven. We appreciate your insights and congratulations again on the National Essay Partner of The Year. >> Thank you so much. >> All right. For Dave Nicholson, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, the global leader in live tech coverage. (lively music)

>> announcer: From around the globe. It's the theCUBE with digital coverage of DockerCon live 2020. Brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE coverage here at the DockerCon virtual headquarters, anchor desks here in the Palo Alto Studios were quarantined in this virtual event of DockerCon. I'm John Furrier, host along with Jenny Bertuccio, John Kreisa, Peter McKee, other folks who are moderating and weaving in and out of the sessions. But here we have a live sessions with Justin Graham, Vice President of the Products group at Docker. Justin, thanks for coming in DockerCon virtual '20. >> Absolutely, happy to be here from my home office in Seattle, Washington where it is almost sunny. >> You had a great backdrop traveler saying in the chat you got a bandwidth, a lot of bandwidth there. Looking good, some island. What a day for Docker global event. 77,000 people registered. It's just been an awesome party. >> It's been great, I could hardly sleep last night. I was up at 5:00 this morning. I was telling my son about it at breakfast. I interrupted his Zoom school. And he talked a little bit about it, so it's been awesome. I've been waiting for this interview slot for the most of the day. >> So yeah, I got to tell the kids to get off, download those gigabytes of new game updates and get off Netflix, I hear you. But you got good bandwidth. Let's get into it, I love your position. VP of Product at a company that's super technical, a lot of software, a lot of cloud. You've got a good view of the landscape of what the current situation is relative to the product, the deals that are going on with this new announced here, sneak Microsoft expansion, multiple clouds as well as the roadmap and community interaction. So you got a lot going on, you've got your fingers in all the action. When you get the keys to the kingdom, as we say in the product side of things, what's the story today from your perspective around DockerCon? What's the most important thing people should know about of what's going on with this new Docker? Obviously, ease of use, we've heard a lot about. What's going on? >> So I'll start with people. We are hyper focused on helping developers and development teams build and ship applications. That's what we're focused on. That's what we wake up every day thinking about. And we double click on that a minute in terms of what that means. If you think about where source control ends and having a running application on some production compute in the Cloud on the other end, there's a whole lot that needs to happen in the middle of those two things. And we hear from our development community and we see from those folks, there's a lot of complexity and choices and options and things in the middle there. And we really want to help streamline the creation of those pipelines to get those apps moving to production as fastly, as quickly as possible. >> And you can see it in some of the results and some of the sessions, one session coming up at around four, around how pipelining with Docker help increase the problem solving around curing cancer, really solving, saving people's lives to the front lines with COVID 19 to business value. So you seeing, again Docker coming back into the fold relative to the simple value proposition of making things super easy for developers, but on top of the mega trend of microservices. So, outside of some of these awesome sessions with his learning, the hardcore sessions here at DockerCon around microservices from monitoring, you name it, not a trivial thing cause you've got stateless and state, all kinds of new things are going on with multiple clouds. So not an easy-- >> No. >> road to kind of grok or understand you have to manage that. What are people paying attention to? What is happening? I think, first off I'll say, one of the things that I'm super passionate about is increasing access to technology, so the greatest and best ideas can get bubbled up to the top and expose no matter where they come from, whom they come from, et cetera. And I think one of the things that makes that harder, that makes that complex is just how much developers need to understand or even emerging developers need to understand. Just to even get started. Languages, IDEs, packaging, building where do you ship to? If you pick a certain powder end point, you have to understand networking and storage and identity models are just so much you have to absorb. So we're hyper focused on how can we make that complex super easy. And these are all the things that we get asked questions on. And we get interacted with on our public roadmap in other places to help with. So that's the biggest things that you're going to see coming out of Docker starting now and moving forward. We'll be serving that end. >> Let's talk about some of the new execution successes you guys had. Honestly, Snyk is security shifting left, that's a major, I think a killer win for Snyk. Obviously, getting access to millions of developers use Docker and vice versa. Into the shifting left, you get to security in that workflow piece. Microsoft expanding relationship's interesting as well because Microsoft's got a robust tech developer ecosystem. They have their own tools. So, you see these symbiotic relationship with Docker, again, coming into the fold where there's a lot of working together going on. Explain that meaning, what does that mean? >> So you're on the back of the refocus Docker in our hyperfocus on developers and development teams, one of the core tenants of the how. So before that was the what. This is the how we're going to go do it. Is by partnering with the ecosystem as much as possible and bringing the best of breed in front of developers in a way that they can most easily consume. So if you take the Snyk partnership that was just a match, a match made in developer dopamine as a Sean Connolly, would say. We're hyper focused on developers and development teams and Snyk is also hyperfocused on making it as easy as possible for developers and development teams to stay secure ship, fast and stay secure. So it really just matched up super well. And then if you think, "Well, how do we even get there in the first place?" Well, we launched our public roadmap a few months ago, which was a first that Docker has ever done. And one of the first things that comes onto that public roadmap is image vulnerability scanning. For Docker, at that time it was really just focused on Docker Hub in terms of how it came through the roadmap. It got up voted a bunch, there has been some interaction and then we thought, "Well, why just like checking that box isn't enough," right? It's just checking the box. What can we do that really brings sort of the promise of the Docker experience to something like this? And Sneak was an immediate thought, in that respect. And we just really got in touch with them and we just saw eye to eye almost immediately. And then off off the rest went. The second piece of it was really around, well why just do it in Docker Hub? What about Docker Desktop? It's downloaded 80,000 times a week and it's got 2.2 million active installations on a weekly basis. What about those folks? So we decided to raise the bar again and say, "Hey, let's make sure that this partnership includes "not only Docker Hub but Docker Desktop, so you'll be able, when we launch this, to scan your images locally on Docker Desktop. >> Awesome, I see getting some phone calls and then you got to hit this, hit the end button real quick. I saw that in there. I've got an interesting chat I want to just kind of lighten things up a little bit from Brian Stevenson. He says, "Justin, what glasses are those?" (Justin laughing) So he wants to know what kind of glasses you're wearing. >> They're glasses that I think signal that I turned 40 last year. >> (laughs) I'd say it's for your gaming environments, the blue light glasses. >> But I'm not going to say where they came from because it's probably not going to engender a bunch of positive good. But they're nice glasses. They help me see the computer screen and make sure that I'm not a bad fingering my CLI commands >> Well as old guys need the glasses, certainly I do. Speaking of old and young, this brought up a conversation since that came up, I'll just quickly riff into this cause I think it's interesting, Kelsey Hightower, during the innovation panel talked about how the developers and people want to just do applications, someone to get under the hood, up and down the stack. I was riffing with John Chrysler, around kind of the new generation, the kids coming in, the young guns, they all this goodness at their disposal. They didn't have to load Linux on a desktop and Rack and Stack servers all that good stuff. So it's so much more capable today. And so this speaks to the modern era and the expansion overall of opensource and the expansion of the people involved, new expectations and new experiences are required. So as a product person, how do you think about that? Because you don't want to just build for the old, you got to build for the new as well as the experience changes and expectations are different. What's your thoughts around that? >> Yeah, I think about sort of my start in this industry as a really good answer to that. I mean, I remember as a kid, I think I asked for a computer for every birthday and Christmas from when I was six, until I got one given to me by a friend's parents in 1994, on my way off to boarding school. And so it took that long just for me to get a computer into my hands. And then when I was in school there wasn't any role sort of Computer Science or coding courses until my senior year. And then I had to go to an Engineering School at Rensselaer city to sort of get that experience at the time. I mean, just to even get into this industry and learn how to code was just, I mean, so many things had to go my way. And then Microsoft hired me out of college. Another thing that sort of fell my way. So this work that we're doing is just so important because I worked hard, but I had a lot of luck. But not everybody's going to have some of that, right? Have that luck. So how can we make it just as easy as possible for folks to get started wherever you are. If you have a family and you're working another full time job, can you spend a few hours at night learning Docker? We can help you with that. Download Docker Desktop. We have tutorials, we have great docs, we have great captains who teach courses. So everything we're doing is sort of in service of that vision and that democratization of getting into the ideas. And I love what Kelsey, said in terms of, let's stop talking about the tech and let's stop talking about what folks can do with the tech. And that's very, very poignant. So we're really working on like, we'll take care of all the complexity behind the scenes and all of the VMs and the launching of containers and the network. We'll try to help take care of all that complexity behind the curtain so that you can just focus on getting your idea built as a developer. >> Yeah, and you mentioned Kelsey, again. He got a great story about his daughter and Serverless and I was joking on Twitter that his daughter convinced them that Serverless is great. Of course we know that Kelsey already loves Serverless. But he's pointing out this developer dopamine. He didn't say that's Shawn's word, but that's really what his daughter wanted to do is show her friends a website that she built, not get into, "Hey look, I just did a Kubernetes cluster." I mean it's not like... But pick your swim lane. This is what it's all about now. >> Yeah, I hope my son never has to understand what a service mesh is or proxy is. Right? >> Yeah. >> I just hope he just learn the language and just learns how to bring an idea to life and all the rest of it is just behind me here. >> When he said I had a parenting moment, I thought he's going to say something like that. Like, "Oh my kid did it." No, I had to describe whether it's a low level data structure or (laughs) just use Serverless. Shifting gears on the product roadmap for Docker, can you share how folks can learn about it and can you give some commentary on what you're thinking right now? I know you guys put on GitHub. Is there a link available-- >> Absolutely, available. Github.com/docker/roadmap. We tried to be very, very poignant about how we named that. So it was as easy as possible. We launched it a few months ago. It was a first in terms of Docker publicly sharing it's roadmap and what we're thinking and what we're working on. And you'll find very clear instructions of how to post issues and get started. What our code of conduct is. And then you can just get started and we even have a template for you to get started and submit an issue and talk to us about it. And internally my team and to many of our engineers as well, we triaged what we see changing and coming into the public roadmap two to three times a week. So for a half an hour to 45 minutes at a time. And then we're on Slack, batting around ideas that are coming in and saying how we can improve those. So for everyone out there, we really do pay attention to this very frequently. And we iterate on it and the image vulnerability scannings one of those great examples you can see some other things that we're working on up there. So I will say this though, there has been some continual asks for our Lennox version of Docker Desktop. So I will commit that, if we get 500 up votes, that we will triage and figure out how to get that done over a period of time. >> You heard 500 up votes to triage-- >> 500 >> You as get that. And is there a shipping date on that if they get the 500 up votes? >> No, no, (John laughs) you went to a shipping date yet, but it's on the public roadmap. So you'll know when we're working on it and when we're getting there. >> I want before I get into your session you had with the capital, which is a very geeky session getting under the hood, I'm more on the business side. The tail wind obviously for Docker is the micro services trend. What containers has enabled is just going to continue to get more awesome and complex but also a lot of value and agility and all the things you guys are talking about. So that obviously is going to be a tailwind for you. But as you guys look at that piece of it, specifically the business value, how is Docker positioned? Because a of the use cases are, no one really starts out microservices from a clean sheet of paper that we heard some talks here DockerCon where the financial services company said, "Hey, it's simple stack," and then it became feature creep, which became a monolith. And then they had to move that technical debt into a much more polyglot system where you have multiple tools and there's a lot of things going on, that seems to be the trend that also speaks to the legacy environment that most enterprises have. Could you share your view on how Docker fits into those worlds? Because you're either coming from a simple stack that more often and got successful and you're going to go microservice or you have legacy, then you want to decouple and make it highly cohesive. So your thoughts. >> So the simple answer is, Docker can help on both ends. So I think as these new technologies sort of gain momentum and get talked about a bunch and sort of get rapid adoption and rapid hype, then they're almost conceived to be this wall that builds up where people start to think, "Well, maybe my thing isn't modern enough," or, "Maybe my team's not modern enough," or, "Maybe I'm not moderate enough to use this." So there's too much of a hurdle to get over. And that we don't see that at all. There's always a way to get started. Even thinking about the other thing, and I'd say, one we can help, let us know, ping us, we'll be happy to chat with you, but start small, right? If you're in a large enterprise and you have a long legacy stack and a bunch of legacy apps, think about the smallest thing that you can start with, then you can begin to break off of that. And as a proof of concept even by just downloading Docker Desktop and visual studio code and just getting started with breaking off a small piece, and improve the model. And I think that's where Docker can be really helpful introducing you to this paradigm and pattern shift of containers and containerized packaging and microservices and production run time. >> And certainly any company coming out of his post pandemic is going to need to have a growth strategy that's going to be based on apps that's going to be based on the projects that they're currently working, double down on those and kind of sunset the ones that aren't or fix the legacy seems to be a major Taylor. >> The second bit is, as a company, you're going to also have to start something new or many new things to innovate for your customers and keep up with the times and the latest technology. So start to think about how you can ensure that the new things that you're doing are starting off in a containerized way using Docker to help you get there. If the legacy pieces may not be able to move as quickly or there's more required there, just think about the new things you're going to do and start new in that respect. >> Well, let's bring some customer scenarios to the table. Pretend I'm a customer, we're talking, "Hey Justin, you're looking good. "Hey, I love Docker. I love the polyglot, blah, blah, blah." Hey, you know what? And I want to get your response to this. And I say, "DevOps won't work here where we are, "it's just not a good fit." What do you say when you hear things like that? >> See my previous comment about the wall that builds up. So the answer is, and I remember hearing this by the way, about Agile years ago, when Agile development and Agile processes began to come in and take hold and take over for sort of waterfall processes, right? What I hear customers really saying is, "Man, this is really hard, this is super hard. "I don't know where to start, it's very hard. "How can you help? "Help me figure out where to start." And that is one of the things that we're very very very clearly working on. So first off we just, our docs team who do great work, just made an unbelievable update to the Docker documentation homepage, docs.docker.com. Before you were sort of met with a wall of text in a long left navigation that if you didn't know what you were doing, I would know where to go. Now you can go there and there's six very clear paths for you to follow. Do you want to get started? Are you looking for a product manual, et cetera. So if you're just looking for where to get started, just click on that. That'll give you a great start. when you download Docker Desktop, there's now an onboarding tutorial that will walk you through getting your first application started. So there are ways for you to help and get started. And then we have a great group of Docker captains Bret Fisher, many others who are also instructors, we can absolutely put you in touch with them or some online coursework that they deliver as well. So there's many resources available to you. Let us help you just get over the hump of getting started. >> And Jenny, and on the community side and Peter McKee, we're talking about some libraries are coming out, some educational stuff's coming around the corner as well. So we'll keep an eye out for that. Question for you, a personal question, can you share a proud devOps Docker moment that you could share with the audience? >> Oh wow, so many to go through. So I think a few things come to mind over the past few weeks. So for everyone that has no... we launched some exciting new pricing plans last week for Docker. So you can now get quite a bit of value for $7 a month in our pro plan. But the amount of work that the team had to do to get there was just an incredible thing. And just watching how the team have a team operated and how the team got there and just how they were turning on a dime with decisions that were being made. And I'm seeing the same thing through some of our teams that are building the image vulnerability scanning feature. I won't quote the number, but there's a very small number of people working on that feature that are creating an incredible thing for customers. So it's just how we think every day. Because we're actually almost trying to productize how we work, right? And bring that to the customer. >> Awesome, and your take on DockerCon virtual, obviously, we're all in this situation. The content's been rich on the site. You would just on the captains program earlier in the day. >> Yes. >> Doctor kept Brett's captain taught like a marathon session. Did they grill you hard or what was your experience on the captain's feed? >> I love the captain's feed. We did a run of that for the Docker birthday a few months ago with my co-worker Justin Cormack. So yes, there are two Justin's that work at Docker. I got the internal Justin Slack handle. He got the external, the community Slack Justin handle. So we split the goods there. But lots of questions about how to get started. I mean, I think there was one really good question there. Someone was saying asking for advice on just how to get started as someone who wants to be a new engineer or get into coding. And I think we're seeing a lot of this. I even have a good friend whose wife was a very successful and still is a very successful person in the marketing field. And is learning how to code and wants to do a career switch. Right? >> Yeah. >> So it's really exciting. >> DockerCon is virtual. We heard Kelsey Hightower, we heard James Governor, talk about events going to be more about group conventions getting together, whether they're small, medium, or large. What's your take on DockerCon virtual, or in general, what makes a great conference these days? Cause we'll soon get back to the physical space. But I think the genie's out of the bottle, that digital space has no boundaries. It's limitless and creativity. We're just scratching the surface. What makes a great event in your mind? >> I think so, I go back to thinking, I've probably flown 600,000 miles in the past three years. Lots of time away from my family, lots of time away from my son. And now that we're all in this situation together in terms of being sheltered in place in the global pandemic and we're executing an event that has 10 times more participation from attendees than we had in our in person event. And I sat back in my chair this morning and I was thinking, "Did I really need to fly that 600,000 miles "in the past three years?" And I think James Governor, brought it up earlier. I really think the world has changed underneath us. It's just going to be really hard to... This will all be over eventually. Hopefully we'll get to a vaccine really soon. And then folks will start to feel like world's a little bit more back to "normal" but man, I'm going to really have to ask myself like, "Do I really need to get on this airplane "and fly wherever it is? "Why can't I just do it from my home office "and give my son breakfast and take them to school, "and then see them in the evening?" Plus second, like I mentioned before in terms of access, no in person event will be able to compete ever with the type of access that this type of a platform provides. There just aren't like fairly or unfairly, lots of people just cannot travel to certain places. For lots of different reasons, monetary probably being primary. And it's not their job to figure out how to get to the thing. It's our job to figure out how to get the tech and the access and the learning to them. Right? >> Yeah (murmurs) >> So I'm super committed to that and I'll be asking the question continually. I think my internal colleagues are probably laughing now because I've been beating the drum of like, "Why do we ever have to do anything in person anymore?" Like, "Let's expand the access." >> Yeah, expand the access. And what's great too is the CEO was in multiple chat streams. So you could literally, it's almost beam in there like Star Trek. And just you can be more places that doesn't require that spatial limitations. >> Yeah. >> I think face to face will be good intimate more a party-like environment, more bonding or where social face to face is more impactful. >> We do have to figure out how to have the attendee party virtually. So, we have to figure out how to get some great electronic, or band, or something to play a virtual show, and like what the ship everybody a beverage, I don't now. >> We'll co-create with Dopper theCUBE pub and have beer for everybody if need they at some point (laughs). Justin, great insight. Thank you for coming on and sharing the roadmap update on the product and your insights into the tech as well as events. Appreciate it, thank you. >> Absolutely, thank you so much. And thanks everyone for attending. >> Congratulations, on all the work on the products Docker going to the next level. Microservices is a tailwind, but it's about productivity, simplicity. Justin, the product, head of the product for Docker, VP of product on here theCUBE, DockerCon 2020. I'm John Furrier. Stay with us for more continuous coverage on theCUBE track we're on now, we're streaming live. These sessions are immediately on demand. Check out the calendar. There's 43 sessions submitted by the community. Jump in there, there are own container of content. Get in there, pun intended, and chat, and meet people, and learn. Thanks for watching. Stay with us for more after this break. (upbeat music)