>>Hello, everyone. My name is John Jane Shake. I work from Iran. Tous Andi. I am here this afternoon very gratefully with Anders Vulcan, who is VP of technology strategy for cloud bees, a Miranda's partner and a well known company in the space that we're going to be discussing. Anders is also a well known entity in this space, which is continuous integration and continuous delivery. Um, you've seen already today some sessions that focus on specific implementations of continuous integration and delivery, um, particularly around security. And, uh, we think this is a critically important topic for anyone in the cloud space, particularly in this increasingly complicated kubernetes space. To understand, um, Miranda's thanks, Uh, if I can recapitulate our own our own strategy and, uh, and language that with complexity on uncertainty consistently increasing with the depth of the technology stacks that we have to deal with consistently, um um elaborating themselves that navigating this requires, um first three implementation of automation to increase speed, which is what C and C d do. Um, and that this speed ba leveraged toe let us ship and iterate code faster. Since that's ultimately the business that all of us air in one way or another. I would like, I guess, toe open this conversation by asking Onders what does he think of that core strategy? >>You know, I think you know, hitting the security thing, right? Right off the bat. You know, security doesn't happen by accident. You know, security is not something that you know, Like a like a server in a restaurant. You know, Sprinkles a little bit of Parmesan cheese right before they serve you the the food. It's not something you Sprinkle on at the end. It's something that has to be baked in from the beginning, not just in the kitchen, but in the supply chain from from from the very beginning. So the you know it's a feature, and if you don't build it, if you're not going to get an outcome that you're not gonna be happy with and I think the you know it's increasingly it's obviously increasingly important and increasingly visible. You know, the you know, the kinds of security problems that we that we see these days can can be, you know, life altering, for for people that are subject to them and and can be, you know, life or death for a company that that's exposed to it. So it's it's it's very, very important. Thio pay attention to it and to work to achieve that as an explicit outcome of the software delivery process. And I think, you know, C i n c d as as process as tooling as culture plays a big part in that because ah, lot of it has to do with, you know, set things up, right? Um run them the same way over and over, you know, get the machine going. Turned the crane. Now, you wanna you wanna make improvements over over time. You know, it's not just, you know, set it and forget it. You know, we got that set up. We don't have to worry about it anymore, but it really is a question of, you know, get the human out of the loop a lot of the times because if if you're dealing with configuring complex systems, you wanna make sure that you get them set up configured, you know, documented Ideally, you know, as code, whether it's a domain specific language or or something like that. And then that's something that you contest against that you can verify against that you can that you can difficult. And then that becomes the basis for for your, you know, for yourself, for pipelines, for your automation around, you know, kind of the software factory floor. So I think automation is a key aspect of that because it, you know, it takes a lot of the drudgery out of it, for one thing, So now the humans have more time to spend on doing on the on the creative things on the things that we're good at a zoo. Humans and it also make sure that, you know, one of the things that computers are really good at is doing the same thing over and over and over and over. Eso that kind of puts that responsibility into the hands of the entity that that knows how to do that well, which is which is the machine eso I think it's, you know, it's a light. It's a deep, deep topic, obviously, but, you know, automation plays into it. Uh, you know, small batch sizes play into it, you know, being able to test very frequently whether that's testing in. You're kind of you're C I pipeline where you're sort of doing building mostly unit testing, maybe some integration testing, but also in layering in the mawr. Serious kinds of testing in terms of security scanning, penetration, testing, vulnerability, scanning. You know those sorts of things which, you know, maybe you do on every single see I Bill. But most people don't because those things tend toe take a little bit longer on. And you know you want your sea ice cycle to be as fast as possible because that's really in service of the developer who has committed code and wants toe kind of see the thumbs up from the system saying it. And, um, so most organizations most organizations are are are focusing on, you know, making sure that there's a follow on pipeline to follow on set of tests that happened after the C I passes successfully and and that's, you know, where a lot of the security scanning and those sorts of things happen. >>It's a It's an interesting problem. I mean, you mentioned, um, what almost sounds like a Lawrence Lessig Ian kind of idea that, you know, code is law in enterprises today, code particularly see, I code ends up being policy, but At the same time, there's, Ah, it seems to me there's a an alternative peril, which is, as you increase speed, particularly when you become more and more dependent on things like containers and layering technology to provide components and capabilities that you don't have to build yourself to your build pipeline, that there are new vulnerabilities, potentially that creep in and can creep in despite automation. Zor at least 1st. 1st order automation is attempts toe to prevent them from creeping in. You don't wanna you wanna freeze people on a six month old version of a key container image. But on the other hand, if the latest version has vulnerabilities, that could be a problem. >>Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's it's a it's a it's a double edged sword. It's two sides of the same coin. I think you know, when I talked to a lot of security people, um, you know, people to do it for a living is supposed to mean I just talk about it, um, that Z not completely true. But, um, the ah, lot of times the problem is old vulnerabilities. The thing that I think keeps a lot of people up at night isn't necessarily that the thing at the tip of the releases for particular, you know, well known open source, library or something like that. But that's gonna burn you all the vast majority of the time. And I want to say, like, 80 85% of the time. The vulnerability is that you that you get hosed by are ones that have been known about for years. And so I think the if I had to pick. So if you know, in that sort of two sides of that coin, if I had to pick, I would say Be aggressive in making sure that your third party dependencies are updated frequently and and continuously right, because that is the biggest, biggest cause of of of security vulnerabilities when it comes to third party code. Um, now you know the famous saying, You know, move fast and break things Well, there's certain things you don't want to break. You know you don't want to break a radiation machine that's going to deliver radio radiotherapy to someone because that will endanger their health. So So those sorts of systems, you know, naturally or subject a little bit more kind of caution and scrutiny and rigor and process those sorts of things. The micro service that I run that shows my little avatar when I log in, that one probably gets a little less group. You know, Andre rightfully so. So I think a lot of it has to do. And somebody once said in a I think it was, Ah, panel. I was on a PR say conference, which was, which was kind of a wise thing to say it was Don't spend a million dollars protecting a $5 assets. You know, you wanna be smart and you wanna you wanna figure out where your vulnerabilities they're going to come from and in my experience, and and you know, what I hear from a lot of the security professionals is pay attention to your supply chain. You're you want to make sure that you're up to date with the latest patches of, of all of your third party, you know, open source or close source. It doesn't really matter. I mean, if anything, you know, open source is is more open. Eso You could inspect things a little bit better than the close source, but with both kinds of streams of code that you consume and and use. You wanna make sure that you're you're more up to date as opposed to a less up to date? Um, that generally will be better. Now, can a new version of the library cause problems? You know, introduce bugs? You know, those sorts of things? Yes. That's why we have tests. That's what we have automated tests, regression, sweets, You know, those sorts of things. And so you wanna, you know, you wanna live in a in a world where you feel the confidence as a as a developer, that if I update this library from, you know, one debt owed at 3 to 1 debt owed at 10 to pick up a bunch of, you know, bug fixes and patches and those sorts of things. But that's not going to break some on demand in the test suites that that will run against that ought to cover that that sort of functionality. And I'd rather be in that world of Oh, yeah, we tried to update to that, but it But it broke the tests and then have to go spend time on that, then say, Oh, it broke the test. So let's not update. And then six months later, you do find out. Oh, geez. There was a problem in one that owed at three. And it was fixed in one. That about four. If only we had updated. Um, you know, you look at the, um you look at some of the highest profile security breaches that are out there that you sort of can trace toe third party libraries. It's almost always gonna be that it was out of date and hadn't been patched. That's so that's my you know, opinionated. Take on that. Sure. >>What are the parts of modern C I c D. As opposed to what one would encounter 56 years ago? Maybe if we can imagine that is being before the micro services and containers revolution really took off. >>You know, I think e think you're absolutely right that, you know, not the whole world is not doing. See, I Yeah, and certainly the whole world is not doing city yet. Um, you know, I think you know, as you say, we kind of live in a little bit of an ivory tower. You know, we live in an echo chamber in a little bit of a bubble Aziz vendors in this space. The truth is that I would say less than 50% of the software organizations out there do real. See, I do real CD. The number's probably less than that. Um, you know, I don't have anything to back that up other than just I talked to a lot of folks and work with, you know, with a lot of organizations and like, Yeah, that team does see I that team does Weekly builds You know, those sorts of things. It's it's really all over the place, Onda. Lot of times there's There's definitely, in my experience, a high correlation there with the amount of time that a team or a code base has been around, and the amount of sort of modern technologies and processes and and and so on that are that are brought to it on. And that sort of makes sense. I mean, if you if you're starting with the green field with a blank sheet of paper, you're gonna adopt, you know, the technologies and the processes and the cultures of today. A knot of 5, 10 15 15 years ago, Um but but most organizations air moving in that direction. Right? Andi, I think you know what? What? What? What's really changed in the last few years is the level of integration between the various tools between the various pieces and the amount of automation that you could bring to bear. I mean, I you know, I remember, you know, five or 10 years ago having all kinds of conversations with customers and prospects and and people of conferences and so on and they said, Oh, yeah, we'd like to automate our our software development life cycle, but, you know, we can't We have a manual thing here. We have a manual thing there. We do this kind of testing that we can automate it, and then we have this system, but it doesn't have any guy. So somebody has to sit and click on the screen. And, you know, and I used to say e used to say I don't accept No for an answer of can you automate this right? Everything. Anything can be automated. Even if you just get the little drinking bird. You know that just pokes the mouse. Everyone something. You can automate it, and I Actually, you know, I had one customer who was like, Okay, and we had a discussion and and and and they said, Well, we had this old Windows tool. We Its's an obscure tool. It's no longer updated, but it's it's it's used in a critical part of the life cycle and it can't be automated. And I said, Well, just install one of those Windows tools that allows you to peek and poke at the, you know, mass with my aunt I said so I don't accept your answer. And I said, Well, unfortunately, security won't allow us to install those tools, Eh? So I had to accept No, at that point, but But I think the big change were one of the biggest changes that's happened in the last few years is the systems now have all I'll have a p i s and they all talk to each other. So if you've gotta, you know, if you if you've got a scanning tool, if you've got a deployment tool, if you have a deployment, you know, infrastructure, you know, kubernetes based or, you know, kind of sitting in front of our around kubernetes thes things. I'll talk to each other and are all automated. So one of the things that's happened is we've taken out a lot of the weight states. A lot of the pauses, right? So if you you know, if you do something like a value stream mapping where you sit down and I'll date myself here and probably lose some of the audience with this analogy. But if you remember Schoolhouse Rock cartoons in in the late seventies, early eighties, there was one which was one of my favorites, and and the guy who did the music for this passed away last year, sadly, But, uh, the it was called How a bill Becomes a Law and they personified the bill. So the bill, you know, becomes a little person and, you know, first time passed by the house and then the Senate, and then the president either signs me or doesn't and or he vetoes, and it really sort of did this and what I always talk about with respect to sort of value stream mapping and talking about your processes, put a GoPro camera on your source codes head, and then follow that source code all the way through to your customer understand all of the stuff that happens to it, including nothing, right? Because a lot of times in that elapsed time, nothing keeps happening, right. If we build software the way we were sorry. If we build cars the way we build software, we would install the radio in a car, and then we would park it in a corner of the factory for three weeks. And then we might remember to test the radio before we ship the car out to the customer. Right, Because that's how a lot of us still develop some for. And I think one thing that's changed in the in the last few years is that we don't have these kind of, Well, we did the bill. So now we're waiting for somebody to create an environment and rack up some hardware and install an operating system and install. You know, this that and the other. You know, that that went from manual to we use Scheffer puppet to do it, which then went to we use containers to do it, which then went to we use containers and kubernetes to do it. So whole swaths of elapsed time in our software development life cycles basically went to nothing, right and went to the point where we can weaken, weaken, configure them way to the left and and and follow them all the way through. And that the artifact that we're delivering isn't necessarily and execute herbal. It could be a container, right? So now that starts to get interesting for us in terms of being able to test against that container scan against that container, def. Against that container, Um, you know, and it, you know, it does bring complexity to in terms of now you've got a layered file system in there. Well, what all is in there, you know, And so there's tools for scanning those kinds of things, But But I think that one of the biggest things that's happened is a lot of the natural pause. Points are no longer natural. Pause points their unnatural pause points, and they're now just delays in yourself for delivery. And so what? What a lot of organizations are working on is kind of getting to the point where those sorts of things get get automated and connected, and that's now possible. And it wasn't 55 or 10 years ago. >>So It sounds like a great deal of the speed benefit, which has been quantified many different ways. But is once you get one of these systems working, as we've all experienced enormous, um, is actually done by collapsing out what would have been unused time in a prior process or non paralyze herbal stuff has been made parallel. >>I remember doing a, uh, spent some time with a customer, and they did a value stream mapping, and they they found out at the end that of the 30 days of elapsed time they were spending three days on task. Everything else was waiting, waiting for a build waiting foran install, waiting for an environment, waiting for an approval, having meetings, you know, those sorts of things. And I thought to myself, Oh, my goodness, you know, 90% of the elapsed time is doing nothing. And I was talking to someone Gene Kim, actually, and I said, Oh my God, it was terrible that these you know, these people are screwed and he says, 0 90%. That's actually pretty good, you know? So So I think you know, if you if you think today, you know, if you If you if you look at the teams that are doing just really pure continuous delivery, you know, write some code committed, gets picked up by the sea ice system and passes through CIA goes through whatever coast, see I processing, you need to do security scanning and so on. It gets staged and it gets pushed into production. That stuff can happen in minutes, right? That's new. That's different. Now, if you do that without having the right automated gates in place around security and and and and those sorts of things you know, then you're living a little bit dangerously, although I would argue not necessarily any more dangerously, than just letting that insecure coat sit around for a week before your shipment, right? It's not like that problem is going to fix itself if you just let it sit there, Um, but But, you know, you definitely operated at a higher velocity. Now that's a lot of the benefit that you're tryingto trying to get out of it, right? You can get stuff out to the market faster, or if you take a little bit more time, you get more out to the market in, in in the same amount of time you could turn around and fix problems faster. Um, if you have a vulnerability, you can get it fixed and pushed out much more quickly. If you have a competitive threat that you need to address, you can you know, you could move that that much faster if you have a critical bug. You know, I mean, all security issues or bugs, sort of by definition. But, you know, if you have a functionality bug, you can you can get that pushed out faster. Eso So I think kind of all factors of the business benefit from from this increase in speed. And I think developers due to because anybody you know, any human that has a context switch and step away from something for for for, you know, duration of time longer than a few minutes, you know, you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna have to load back up again. And so that's productivity loss. Now, that's a soft cost. But man, is it Is it expensive and is a painful So you see a lot of benefit there. Think >>if you have, you know, an organization that is just starting this journey What would you ask that organization to consider in orderto sort of move them down this path? >>It's by far the most frequent and almost always the first question I get at the end of the talk or or a presentation or something like that is where do we start? How do I know where to start? And and And there's a couple of answers to that. What one is Don't boil the ocean, right? Don't try to fix everything all at once. You know that because that's not agile, right? The be agile about your transformation Here, you know, pick, pick a set of problems that you have and and make a, you know, basically make a burn down list and and do them in order. So find find a pain point that you have right and, you know, just go address that and and try to make it small and actionable and especially early on when you're trying to affect change. And you're tryingto convinced teams that this is the way to go and you may have some naysayers, or you may have people who are skeptical or have been through these processes before that have been you know failures released, not the successes that they that they were supposed to be. You know, it's important to have some wind. So what I always say is look, you know, if you have a pebble in your shoe, you've got a pain point. You know how to address that. You know, you're not gonna address that by changing out your wardrobe or or by buying a new pair of shoes. You know, you're gonna address that by taking your shoe off, shaking it until the pebble falls out there putting the shoe back on. So look for those kinds of use cases, right? So if you're engineers are complaining that whenever I check in the build is broken and we're not doing see, I well, then let's look at doing C I Let's do see eye, right? If you're not doing that. And for most organizations, you know, setting up C I is a very manageable, very doable thing. There's lots of open source tooling out there. There's lots of commercial tooling out there. Thio do that to do it for small teams to do it for large teams and and everything in between. Um, if the problem is Gosh, Every time we push a change, we break something. You know where every time something works in staging it doesn't work in production. Then you gotta look at Well, how are these systems being configured? If you're If you're configuring them manually, stop automate the configuration of them. Um, you know, if you're if you're fixing system manually, don't you know, as a friend of mine says, don't fix, Repave? Um, you know, you don't wanna, you know, there's a story of, you know how how Google operates in their data centers. You know, they don't they don't go look for a broken disk drive and swap it out. You know, when it breaks, they just have a team of people that, like once a month or something, I don't know what the interval is. They just walked through the data center and they pull out all the dead stuff and they throw it out, and what they did was they assume that if the scale that they operate, things are always going to break physical things are always going to break. You have to build a software to assume that breakage and any system that assumes that we're going to step in when a disk drive is broken and fix it so that we can get back to running just isn't gonna work at scale. There's a similarity. There's sort of ah, parallel to that in in software, which is you know, any time you have these kinds of complex systems, you have to assume that they're gonna break and you have to put the things in place to catch those things. The automated testing, whether it's, you know, whether you have 10,000 tests that you that you've written already or whether you have no tests and you just need to go right, your first test that that journey, you've got to start somewhere. But my answer thio their questions generally always just start small, pick a very specific problem. Build a plan around it, you know, build a burned down list of things that you wanna address and just start working your way down that the same way that you would for any, you know, kind of agile project, your transformation of your own processes of your own internal systems. You should use agile processes for those as well, because if you if you go off for six months and and build something. By the time you come back, it's gonna be relevant. Probably thio the problems that you were facing six months ago. >>A Then let's consider the situation of, ah, company that's using C I and maybe sea ice and C d together. Um, and they want to reach what you might call the next level. Um, they've seen obvious benefits they're interested in, you know, in increasing their investment in, you know and cycles devoted to this technology. You don't have to sell them anymore, but they're looking for a next direction. What would you say that direction should be? I >>think oftentimes what organizations start to do is they start to look at feedback loops. So on DAT starts to go into the area of sort of metrics and analytics and those sorts of things. You know what we're we're always concerned about? You know, we're always affected by things like meantime to recovery. Meantime, the detection, what are our cycle times from, you know, ideation, toe codecommit. What's the cycle? Time from codecommit the production, those sorts of things. And you know you can't change what you don't measure eso so a lot of times the next step after kind of getting the rudimentary zoo of C I Orsini or some combination of both in places start to measure. Stop you, Um, and and then but But there. I think you know, you gotta be smart about it, because what you don't want to do is kind of just pull all the metrics out that exists. Barf them up on the dashboard. And the giant television screens say boom metrics, right. You know, Mike, drop go home. That's the wrong way to do it. You want to use metrics very specifically to achieve outcomes. So if you have an outcome that you want to achieve and you can tie it to a metric start looking at that metric and start working that problem once you saw that problem, you can take that metric. And you know, if that's the metric you're showing on the big you know, the big screen TV, you can pop that off and pick the next one and put it up there. I I always worry when you know a little different when you're in a knock or something like that. When when you're looking at the network stuff and so on. But I'm always leery of when I walk into to a software development organization. You know, just a Brazilian different metrics, this whole place because they're not all relevant. They're not all relevant at the same time. Some of them you wanna look at often, some of them you just want to kind of set an alarm on and make sure that, you know, I mean, you don't go down in your basement every day to check that the sump pump is working. What you do is you put a little water detector in there and you have an alarm go off if the water level ever rises above a certain amount. Well, you want to do the same thing with metrics, right? Once you've got in the water out of your basement, you don't have to go down there and look at it all the time. You put the little detector in, and then you move on and you worry about something else. And so organizations as they start to get a little bit more sophisticated and start to look at the analytics, the metrics, um, start to say, Hey, look, if our if our cycle time from from, you know, commit to deploy is this much. And we want it to be this much. What happens during that time, And where can we take slices out of that? You know, without without affecting the outcomes in terms of quality and so on, or or if it's, you know, from from ideation, toe codecommit. You know what? What can we do there? Um, you start to do that. And and then as you get those sort of virtuous cycles of feedback loops happening, you know, you get better and better and better, but you wanna be careful with metrics, you know, you don't wanna, you know, like I said, you don't wanna barf a bunch of metrics up just to say, Look, we got metrics. Metrics are there to serve a particular outcome. And once you've achieved that outcome, and you know that you can continue to achieve that outcome, you turn it into an alarm or a trigger, and you put it out of sight. And you know that. You know, you don't need to have, like, a code coverage metric prominently displayed you you pick a code coverage number that you're happy with you work to achieve that. Once you achieve it, you just worry about not going below that threshold again. So you can take that graph off and just put a trigger on this as if we ever get below this, you know, raising alarm or fail a build or fail a pipeline or something like that and then start to focus on improving another man. Uh, or another outcome using another matter >>makes enormous sense. So I'm afraid we are getting to be out of time. I want to thank you very much on this for joining us today. This has been certainly informative for me, and I hope for the audience, um, you know, thank you very, very much for sharing your insulin.

>>Live from Seattle, Washington. It's the cube covering Smartsheet engage 2019 brought to you by Smartsheet. >>Welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of Smartsheet engaged here in Seattle, Washington. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, coasting alongside Jeff Frick. We are joined by Mark Mader. He is the CEO of Smartsheet. Thank you so much for coming on the show. So great job up there on the keynote a bit. We know this is the third annual conference, uh, 4,000 people from 39 different countries. The theme is achieved more and the theme is actually tied to a very special announcement you you've made today about the, about the achieved as one Alliance. So can you tell our viewers a little bit about that? >>Yeah. The cheapest one Alliance is really figuring out how to take the cultural changes that are in flight right now and marrying those with the people and the technology. And we think that it's important as things like concepts that are intimidating people, AI and ML worker replacement. It's like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. These are things where we actually think technology and people should work together as opposed to being a replacement for. And I think there's a lot of education that needs to take place. So we plan on doing is doing research through this Alliance and then publishing that work. Cause I think a huge part of this is educating the market and giving them confidence to take that step. It's a different way to treat people. We're in this weird spot where where there's super low unemployment and yet so many things are services and a lot of your assets walk out the door every single night. >>You hope they come back the next day. So you're trying to give them meaning. You're trying to do more than just kind of the core function of the business. He had a great hackathon, uh, yesterday for good. So it's a really challenging people, challenging time for employers to keep the workforce engaged and you're really trying to help them kind of move some of the roadblocks and made it easier for them to keep those folks engaged. It is Jeff. And what we're seeing is, and you see the studies come out where there's never been a higher percentage of people who feel disconnected from their work. And I don't think that's just giving them good tooling. They actually want to know who is being benefited ultimately, what's the endpoint benefit. And if they can somehow feel connected to something purposeful, that is a mechanism for feeling connected to work. So we want our team, we want our customers showing up to their offices every day or organizations feeling motivated. And I think absent that human dimension, absent knowing who you're helping, I think it makes it feel a bit hollow. So that's one of things about engagement brings this together and you see it firsthand. Very invigorating. >>So talk a little bit about the customers that you had up on the main stage telling their Smartsheet stories. And what are the ones that you find most inspiring and, and most sort of life affirming to you as the CEO of this company? >>Well, the thing that that never gets old for me, Rebecca, is when somebody felt something one day was completely unattainable and then they have that unlocked moment like Holy smokes. I pulled it off and it was even more exciting is when they pull that off with very few resources. They didn't have to go to it at every turn. They didn't have to mobilize on a big budget ask. They just got it done. So one of the real memorable moments from me this year was when I visited Syngenta out in North Carolina and I spoke with the head of health and safety and she said we mobilized on Smartsheet. We enabled all of our team members to submit issues, safety concerns they had. How do you simplify that process of taking a picture of a potential issue, getting into a queue, getting it responded to, they saw a 500% increase in the number of people who were saying, I think that could have use improvement. >>I think that could use improvement and a 65% faster resolution times. So she is convinced that people's lives are being materially impacted to the positive. Because of this. I mean, how can she not feel empowered? That is a pretty big, that's a pretty amazing feeling. So that's one that really stands out to me. In terms of the other customer stories that, you know, one of the things that also struck me was just how adrenaline pumping the main stage show was. Yeah. Talk a little bit about what it means to put up the customers who have these very compelling visually interesting stories from outdoor Clothiers to travel destinations, and also what it means for Smartsheet employees to be in the audience. Hearing these stories about what they're doing to help their customers. I think, I think we all want to wake up every day feeling like whatever we do matters, right? >>Whether that's individually or with your family or with your business, and when you see someone like an arc Terrix or a Spartan race or a Vulcan, which is helping do census on elephants, elephants, and preserving that species coupled right alongside it was Cisco that is protecting our networks, which are more complex than ever before and you're participating in that site. Okay. That can again back to that connectedness. Right. And I think, I think the diversity in who we serve also keeps it interesting. You never know who you're gonna serve next one day at Cisco, the next day it's agriculture, the next day it's saving elephants. That diversity keeps things fresh. >>Mark, one of the things that struck me in the keynote is is there was a story of, of this guy gets his going to fly around the world and England and plane in five days or eight days. Um, but on the, what are the test flights are a significant change. He was trying to fly to Y, there was an equipment failure and he had to divert and you know when you see the screen grabs and people working in Smartsheet, it looks super detailed. It's like a project plan and there's resources that are tied research utilization. But in this case they had to be able to flip on a dime. They had to be completely agile and I think she said that eight teams around the world, I presume where the stops are. That's a really interesting dichotomy of, of the tool that you guys are delivering to, to have the detail to be, you know, numbers focused and AI focused, but at the same time be real in the real world. Stuff doesn't always go as planned, be >>real and do it instantly. So if we have an issue with the plane, we're not going to host a summit to talk about with how to get back on track. We've got to do it now. So the thing that sets also need that example is you're talking about eight to 10 people across multiple continents who have to work right now. There is no mobilization. There is note, as I said, summit and I think being able to do meaningful things quickly, that is a fairly rare combination, right? Very often meaningful stuff is heavy, complex takes time. So again, I'm, I'm this, that constant pursuit of faster, more meaningful, more depth, more value, right? In this kind of cross silo collaboration. You, I mean that's a theme that comes up over and over again is that you need contributions from lots of people and lots of no formerly siloed departments as is maybe what they're going to be called in the future to get to resolution so that you can move forward. >>And I think the thing that we spoke to in one of the product announcements was we are so inundated with information and Rebecca, Mark, I needed faster, I need a faster yet again and saying, Holy Rebecca, I can't actually process it all. So one of the things we're trying to do is how do you also improve the context within P within which people see things? Right? So if you asked me question and I don't have to tap out to another application, I can actually see your question in the context of that work. And that's when I think we were one of the real big breakthroughs where we're releasing this, this engaged, >>I mean, when you think about the, the, the current status of, of work and you really, and you really see it, I mean, from, from where you sit, I mean, is it almost shockingly abysmal about how bad things can get at companies in terms of how many silos there are, how the, the number of communication breakdowns, uh, the way the communication breaks down because as you said, you could just be working on a different version for someone. >>Shockingly, business, because we've been doing this for years, it's like it's the norm base, the cost of doing business. So what our job is to, how do we get people to get that spark to elevate a Busick, Oh my goodness, there is a better way. And it takes a lot to change people's behavior. You can't just say, well, there's a better way they have to experience it. Right? So we're in that, in that pursuit of how do you get more people to clear that hurdle the first time? Because the norm is, it's hard. The norm is, is distributed. The norm is, I don't know what version. So that's who we're trying to unlock for folks. >>And you said in the keynote once they get that spark and then achievement becomes the new norm that that has its own momentum too. >>Yes, it's the, you know, Jeff does something amazing and I'm like I want in, it's like well Jeff doesn't have a monopoly on that and that is, that's the viral effect and it's not so much a vendor saying, Hey Jeff did something now you should be motivated. You should feel that way. Rebecca. And that's what we see at this conference. This is 4,000 people who weren't told to go to the conference. These are 4,000 people who want in. And that is a really special part of the conference for us. Shift gears a little bit on AI, artificial intelligence, machine learning. Cause we hear about >>it all the time and I think everyone now has kind of figured out that it's not, it's not going to be a company delivering AI and ML. It's really applied a I in ML within an application. When you guys look at the opportunities, especially with the data flow that you have and you know your SAS application, where do you see some of the short term wins and opportunities using AI to even better, you know, eliminate some of this redundant, painful work? >>I think part of it starts with educating people on the potential benefits of it. And then I'm an experiential learner. I think many people are. So instead of talking about the theory, demonstrate how it could help. So we've already started doing sings things like recommending to people certain things based on actions they take. It's also very important as a vendor we have made a commitment to being very clear that for more advanced types of AI, people need to opt in. So again, part of this, what's happening to my data, who's working at we that that's part of our platform, right? And when I look at the future, it's the first step I think is really how do you drive convenience improvement recommendation. How do you let someone take better advantage of the systems they're already using? And what people don't have to appreciate today is by exhibiting this behavior, by intaking information, structuring and reporting out this system. >>We'll observe a pattern and ultimately should they choose to opt in the system. We'll get to a point where we'll be able to make recommendations, recommendations and derive insights. But again, a lot of this is fairly theoretical. We're in the early innings of this, Jeff. People are just starting to figure out I can automate something. So you know, I think there's a much like people said 10 years ago, the future is now. The future is kind of showing up today and then the next phase is still a couple of years out. But it's a very exciting, it's a very exciting prospect. >>So those recommendations then can become best practices because I'd like to get it back to this, this achieve as one Alliance and sort of how you're going to take that research and educate the market and then use it to implement these new technologies and best practices of this is how we can get more done and achieve more together >>by showing examples of how AI and ML can contribute to someone's performance as opposed to you did these 10 things. The machine is taking over those 10 things like, well, what's my role in it? That's not a very exciting conversation to have. So I think by demonstrating how somebody's game can, in a sense, slow down. So if the machine can help me further inspect more deeply assess, have that next moment of insight that's contributing, not taking away. And again, we need to show examples as an industry that happening until we show it. It's sort of off or not. So I'm really excited about about helping our customers through that journey. >>Yeah, there's so much opportunity in the ed. The other one that comes up in a other times is unplanned downtime. Right. So a lot of talk always about unplanned downtime of machines, right? It's completely disruptive. You don't want to schedule maintenance, but no one really talks about unplanned downtime of people, not necessarily in the way of being sick, but being distracted by often mundane, often roads, often an anticipated task, I won't even call it work that suddenly get dumped into your lap that you have to take care of. And those really, I think huge opportunities to add some automation and get those things kind of off the plate. >>Yeah. You think about the breakthrough ideas you've had in your lives, does it happen when you're like feverously working waste? No. It's usually when there's a moment of just peace where you're able to process. That's when the breakthrough happens. So one of the things we talked about today was how also as leaders, we need to empower our teams to not just drive for more yield and throughput, take that extra benefit and actually look at the board, process the board and think about what we're going to do next. And I think, again, you need to exhibit, you need to give people the permission to work that way because we're all feeling this, this pressure to innovate. You gotta give people time to do it and do more with less too. I mean, yeah. Do you think it's realistic? Do you think leaders are going to be able to, to do that? And I think the leaders of successful companies will do that and role model that too because they can't also be worried about their own true pled as you said. Right? Right. Yeah. I mean, as Gabby, as Gabby, a reset at the end of her talk, you have to exhibit the behavior. You want others to practice. Right. So I think that was a wise, a wise statement. >>Well, I really loved the, uh, the outdoor clothing company who, you know, specifically said, we want our people out doing the things that our customers are doing, experiencing what they're experiencing and really baking that into the culture. Not just saying it, but get outside and go run around, uh, and, and do what we want our customers to do and what our customers do. Do very different approach. >>It is. It is. I think, again, back to back to us understanding what our customers are doing. This is equivalent to our super bowl every year, right? We get 4,000 these people coming in here and there is no substitute for that in the flesh interaction and that's again one of the reasons why it's everyone's such a positive engaged mood right now. So they're not only interacting with the Smartsheet folks, but they're interacting with each other and learned how each company uses Smartsheet. Yeah, I mean when you think that one half of all collaboration that takes place on our platform is cross company. It's not a surprise that people interact with one another. Here it is. It is happening. We have companies who interact with hundreds of brands outside of their own, so we serve as that cross connect for companies and that's the modern company. I don't know of a company that is completely insular, so if you can help promote that safely, that's a, that's a, that's a real advantage for a company. >>Yeah. Wrapping up. What do you, what do you think you're going to be the themes for next year's conference? What is, what are sort of what's on your plate? What are you thinking about? What are the big challenges that you're knowing on right now? Yeah, I think the, I think the continued shift from efficiency to effectiveness. People. I think most people are still measured on the output goal. How many units did I do, how many sales and and while that may serve you well in the quarter and the next quarter, it does not prepare you for years two and three so you have to be very committed to the investments today. That may not pay off in that six to 12 month window. You have to, and I think stories will come out as people are learning new ways to work of examples of here's what we did in 2019 which ended up being a home run in 2021 so it's back to effectiveness, effectiveness versus efficiency. That is going to be, I think one of the themes we speak to next year. Thanks Mark. A pleasure having you on the show. I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff Frick. Stay tuned. Have more of the cubes live coverage of Smartsheet. Engage.

>>live from Seattle, Washington. It's the key nude covering smartsheet engaged 2019. Brought to you by smartsheet. >>Welcome back, everyone to the cubes Live coverage of smartsheet engaged here in Seattle, Washington. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight coasting alongside Jeff. Rick. We're joined by Mark Mater. He is the CEO of smartsheet. Thank you so much for coming, Warren. Thank you. So great job up there on the keynote way. No, this is the third annual conference of 4000 people from 39 different countries. The theme is achieved more, and the theme is actually tied to a very special announcement you made today about the about the achieve as one alliance. What can you tell our viewers a little bit about that? Yeah. The chief is >>one alliance is really figuring out how to take the cultural changes that Aaron flight right now and marrying those with the people in the technology. And we think that it's important as things like concepts that are intimidating people. Aye, aye. And ml worker replacement say whoa, whoa, whoa. These are things where we actually think technology and people should work together as opposed to being a replacement for and I think there's a lot of education that needs to take place. So we plan on doing is doing research through this alliance and then publishing that work is I think a huge part of this is educating the market and giving them confidence and take that step. It's a >>different way to treat people. We're in this weird spot where you know, the super low unemployment. And yet in that you know so many things. Air service is and a lot of your assets walk out the door every single night. You hope they come back the next day. So you're trying to give them meaning. You're trying to do more than just kind of the core function of the business. You had a great hackathon yesterday for good. So it's a really challenging, people challenging time for employers to keep the workforce engaged. And you're really trying to help them kind of move some of the roadblocks and may be easier for them to keep those folks and gay >>it is Jeff and what we're seeing is and you see the studies come out where there's never been a higher percentage of people who feel disconnected from their work, and I don't think that's just giving them good tooling. They actually want to know who is being benefited. Ultimately, what's the endpoint benefit? And if they can somehow feel connected to something purposeful, that is a mechanism for feeling connected to work. So we want our team. We want our customers showing up to their offices, everyday organizations feeling motivated. And I think absent that human dimension absent knowing who you're helping, I think makes it feel a bit hollow. That's one of these about engaging Brings this together. You see it firsthand, very invigorating. >>Talk a little bit about the customers that you had upon the main stage, telling their smartsheet stories and one of the ones that you find most inspiring and and most sort of life affirming to you as the CEO of this company. >>Well, the thing that that never gets old for me, Rebecca, is when somebody felt something one day was completely unattainable. And then they have that unlocked moment like Holy smokes. I pulled it off, and what's even more exciting when they pull that off with very few resource is they didn't have to go to I t. At every turn. They didn't have to mobilize on a big budget ass. They just got it done. So one of the real memorable moments from me this year was when I visited Syngenta out in North Carolina and I spoke with a head of health and safety and she said we mobilized on Smarty. We enabled all of our team members to submit issues safety concerns they had. How do you simplify the process of taking a picture of a potential issue getting into a queue getting it responded to? They saw a 500% increase in the number of people who are saying, I think that you could use improvement. I think that could use improvement. And it's 65% faster resolution time. So she is convinced that people's lives are being materially impacted to the positive. Because of this, I mean, how can she not feel empowered that it's a pretty big? That's a pretty amazing feeling, so that's one that really stands out to me >>in terms of the other customer stories. One of the things that also struck me was just how adrenaline pumping the main stage show talk a little bit about what it means to put up the customers who have these very compelling, visually interesting stories, from outdoor clothier Sze to travel destinations, and also what it means for smartsheet employees to be in the audience hearing these stories about what they're doing to help their customers. I >>think I think we all want to wake up every day feeling like whatever we do matters right, whether that's individually or with your family or with your business. And when you see someone like an Arc Terex or a Spartan race, or a Vulcan, which is helping do census on elephants, elephants and preserving that species coupled right alongside it with Cisco that is protecting our networks, which are more complex than ever before on your participating in that site. Okay, that can again back to that connectedness, right? Andi, I think I think diversity and who we serve also keeps it interesting. You never know who you're going to serve next. One day at Cisco the next day, it's agriculture. The next day it's saving elephants. That diversity keeps things fresh. >>One of the things that struck me in the keynote is there was a story of this guy. I guess it's gonna fly around the world in London plane in five days or eight days, but on the one of the test flights are a significant change. Was trying to fly to why there was equipment failure and he had to divert. And, you know, when you see the screen grabs and people working and smart, she looks super detailed. It's like a project plan, and there's resource is that died research, legalization. But in this case, they had to be able to flip on a dime. They had to be completely at around. I think she said, that eight teams around the world, I presume, where the stops are. That's a really interesting dichotomy of the tool that you guys were delivering to, to have the detail to be. Numbers focus. Okay, I focused, but at the same time be really right. In the real world, stuff doesn't always go as planned, >>be Rio and do it instantly. So if we have an issue with the plane, we're not gonna host a summit to talk about with how to get back on track way got to do it now. So the thing that's that's also need that example is you're talking about 8 to 10 people across multiple continents who have to work Right now. There is no mobilization. There is note, as they said, Summit and I think being able to do meaningful things quickly. That is a fairly rare combination, right? Very often meaningful stuff is heavy, Complex taste time. Eso again. I'm this constant pursuit of faster, more meaningful, more depth, more value >>in this kind of cross silo collaboration to I mean, that's the theme that comes up over and over again. Is that you need contributions from loss of people and lots of know, formally silo departments is maybe what they're gonna be called in the future to get to resolution so that you can move forward >>on. I think the thing that we spoke to in one of the product announcements was We're so inundated with information and Mark, I need a faster I need a faster yet again. It's a holy Rebecca. I can't actually process it. Also, one of the things we're trying to do is how do you also improve the context within within which people see things, right? So if you ask me a question and I don't have toe tab out to another application. I can actually see your question in the context of that work. And that's when I think one of the real big breakthroughs were releasing this This engaged. >>I mean, when you think about the the current status of work and you really and you really see it from where you sit, I mean, is it almost shockingly abysmal about how bad things can get at companies in terms of how many silos there are, how the number of communication breakdowns, the way the communication breaks down? Because, as you said, you could just be working >>on a different version. Great question, Rebecca. And the reason I would say it's not shockingly business because we've been doing this for years. It's like it's the norm >>Bates, >>the cost of doing business. So what our job is to how do we get people to get that spark to elevate a basic? Oh, my goodness, there is a better way, and it takes a lot to change people's behavior. You can't just say, Well, there's a better way. They have to experience it, right? So we're in that in that pursuit of how do you get more people to clear that hurdle the first time. Because the norm is it's hard. The Norma's is distributed enormous. I don't know what. So that's what we're trying to unlock for folks. >>And you said in the Kino, once they get that spark, and then achievement becomes the new norm that that has its own momentum to >>Yes, it's the you know Jeff does something amazing and I'm I I want in. Jeff doesn't have a monopoly on that on that. That's the viral effect. And it's not so much a vendor saying, Hey, Jeff did something now you should be motivated. You should feel that way, Rebecca And that's what we see at this conference. This is 4000 people who weren't told to go to the conference. These air 4000 people who want in, and that is a really special part >>of the conference for us. Shift gears a little bit on a on artificial intelligence machine, learning. We hear about it all the time, and I think everyone now has kind of figured out that it's not going to be a company delivering an ML. It's really applied a i N M l within an application When you guys look at the opportunities, especially with the data flow that you have and you know your sass application, where do you see some of the the short term winds and opportunities using A. I even better, you know, eliminate some of this redundant, painful work. >>I think part of it starts with educating people on the potential benefits of it. And then I'm an experiential learner. I think many people are so instead of talking about the theory, demonstrate how it could help. So we've already started doing saying things like recommending to people certain things based on actions they take. It's also very important. As a vendor, we have made a commitment to be very clear that for more advanced types of a I people need to opt in. So again, part of this what's happening to my data? Who's working it well, that's part of our platform. And when I look at the future, it's the first step I think is really how do you drive? Convenience improvement recommendation? How do you let someone take better advantage of the systems they're already using? And what people don't have to appreciate today is by exhibiting this behavior. But in taking information, structuring and reporting out, the system will observe a pattern. And ultimately, should they choose to opt in, the system will get to a point where we'll be able to make recommendations, recommendations and derive insights. Um, but again, a lot of this is fairly theoretical. We're in the early innings of this, Jeff. People are just starting to figure out I can automate something. So, you know, I think there's a much like people said 10 years ago. You know, the future is now. The future is kind of showing up today, and then the next phase is still a couple of years out, but it's a very exciting. It's a very exciting prospect. >>So those recommendations then, can become best practices because I'd like to get it back to this. This achieve as one alliance and sort of how you're going to take that research and educate the market and then use it to implement these new technologies. And best practices of this is how we can get more done and achieve more together. You and >>I think by showing examples of how a I n. M. L can contribute to someone's performance as opposed to you. Did these 10 things the machine is taking over those 10 things? What's my role in it? That's not a very exciting conversation to have. So I think, by demonstrating how somebody's game can innocence slow down. So if that machine can help me further inspect more deeply, assess have that next moment of insight that's contributing, not taking away. And again we need to show examples as an industry that happening until we show it. It's sort of all for not so. I'm really excited about about helping our customers through that journey. >>Yeah, there's so much opportunity, and the the other one that comes up in other times is unplanned downtime, Right? So a lot of talk always about unplanned, unplanned downtime machines, right? It's completely disruptive. You don't want it scheduled maintenance, but no one really talks about unplanned downtime of people not necessarily in the way being sick but being distracted by often mundane, often road often anticipated task. I won't even call it work that suddenly get dumped into your lap that you have to take care of, and those really think huge opportunities to add some automation and get those things kind of off the plate. >>You think about the breakthrough ideas you've had in your lives? Does it happen when you're like feverishly working ways? No. It's usually when there's a moment of just peace before you're able to process. That's when the breakthrough happens. So one of the things we talked about today was how, also his leaders. We need to empower our teams to not just drive for more yielding throughput. Take that extra benefit in. Actually, look at the board, process the board and think about what we're going to do next. And I think again, you need to exhibit. You need to give people the permission to work that way because we're all feeling this this pressure to innovate. You got to give people time to do it >>and do more with less to do you think it's realistic? Do you think leaders are going to be able to do that? And >>I think the leaders of successful companies will do that >>and role model. That, too, because they can also be worried about their own throughput. As you said, >>right, Right? Yeah. I mean, as Gabby, have you reset at the end of her talk. You have to exhibit the behavior. You want others to practice. So I think that was a wise, wise statement. >>Well, I really loved the outdoor clothing company who, you know, specifically said, We want our people out doing the things that our customers are doing, experiencing what they're experiencing and really bacon that into the culture, not just saying it, but get outside and go run around on and do what we want our customers to do and what our customers do do a very different approach. >>It is, It is. I think, again, back to back toe us, understanding what our customers are doing. This is equivalent to our Super Bowl every year, right, we get 4000 these people coming in here and there is no substitute for that in the flesh interaction. And that's again one of the reasons why it's everyone's such a positive, engaged mood right now, >>so they're not only interacting with a smartsheet folks, but they're interacting with each other at learning how each company uses smart cheat. >>I mean, when you think that 1/2 of all collaboration that takes place on our platform is cross company, it's not a surprise that people interact with another. It is it is happening. We have companies who interact with hundreds of brands outside of their own. So we service that cross connect for companies, and that's the modern company. I don't know of a company that is completely insular. So if you can help promote that safely, that za real advantage for company >>wrapping up, what do you think you're going to be? The themes for next year's conference? What is what are sort of what's on your plate? What are you thinking about? What are the big challenges that you're gnawing on right now? >>Yeah, I think the I think the continue shift from efficiency to effectiveness people. I think most people are still measured on the output goal. How many units did I do? And while that may serve you well in the quarter in the next quarter, it does not prepare you for years two and three. So you have to be very committed to the investments today that may not pay off in that 6 to 12 month window. You have to, and I think stories will come out as people are learning new ways. Toe work of examples of Here's what we did in 2019 which ended up being a home run in 2021. So it's back to effectiveness, effectiveness versus efficiency. That is gonna be, I think, one of the themes we speak to next year. >>Thanks, Mark. A pleasure having you on the show. I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff. Rick. Stay tuned of more of the cubes. Live coverage of smartsheet engage.

live from the mandalay bay convention center in las vegas it's the cues covering vmworld 2016 rock you by vmware and its ecosystem sponsors it's legal yeah everything's legal welcome inside walls here on the cube as we continue our coverage here at vmworld once again we're back or what is going to be an exciting three days here in Mandalay Bay and i'm joined by my partner in crime you might say mark farley the producer Vulcan cast a host of Vulcan cast and tell us about Vulcan kestrel quick mark well you've seen comedy in cars you've seen singing in cars with carpool karaoke this is discussions about technology and cars it's tech talk and cars I see it on you can see it on Vulcan cast calm what a novel name for a website I'm pretty you figure good all day coming up with that one didn't you yeah but it's cool you know what it's like to look for a name absolutely benefit but it's a neat neat concept Tech Talk comes the cars you're kind of like the the james corbett of tech there you go except we don't sing about it I'm more like the Jerry Seinfeld maybe that's the next time we're joined by a couple of guests who are they become partners to more or less here in the business and solutely with Vaughn Stewart who is the enterprise architect and chief evangelist I love that by the way of on a pure storage and that evangelist looked up you do have it you getting the whole thing today and kimbark is a CEO of cata logic software and gentlemen ulcers thank you for being here we appreciate that so if you would start off by telling us a little bit about your individual companies you know what you do and then the marriage you to have partnered up here for the past four months came together pretty quickly and what that's all about and if you would bomb what you go first sure so pure storage is recognized widely as being the number one independent all-flash storage vendor we've been recognized for three years as being the leader in gartner's solid-state array Magic Quadrant we've really allowed flash to be consumed by the masses by making it more affordable than traditional disk based storage arrays and deliver all the promise of of the performance of flash kent and in a nutshell cattle objects software's that spin out three years ago from the syncsort company and what we've got about twenty nine patents we're working hard what we did is we evolved our technology to this whole copy data management space which is very exciting and when you marry copy data management to flash technology you drive some really serious effects and catback savings for customers so it's kind of a peanut butter and chocolate on here right was together really really does right so let's talk about your relationship then this has only been four months in the making you've known each other for a long time but you put together your business venture here very quickly what brought it together so fast and how did it make that kind of sense that boom it just happened almost overnight like that to start going on with the Kent listen we were lucky enough that these guys actually found us that a trade show it was a mug event Vav mug event in Austin Texas they found some for a show they have been absolutely brilliant to work with in the business that we're in we're what's called in place copy data management and why that's important is because we get to pick our partners and it's a lot easier to build a technology if you have a partner that cooperates and these guys have been so cooperative that's what made this thing tick they saw a gap that we could fill they were kind enough they sent us a box up to work with the team culturally has been aligned I mean we we've kind of do things all up and down the stack the same way pricing I think we're very similar channel driven we're similar the way we we look at at working together is very similar say just been brilliant and that's kind of what it is it's a neat at the end of the date and to try to squeeze the effects and capex savings out for customers that's kind of the do yeah and we're also seeing a lot of requests from our from our customer base we have a large number of joint customers as well as customers that were interested in purchasing the other technology but we're waiting for a point of integration and so as we're seeing this shift in the the mid market and the enterprise to a more DevOps centric model more of infrastructure teams converging their their server and their compute management or application owners into owning the entire stack there was this this need for taking the data management constructs that we had and allowing an end-to-end ecosystem enable meant so that dev teams could just you know at the push of a button and refresh their data sets move they move their development efforts forward and get rid of all the old legacy time centric based provisioning models yeah I mean I mean CDM has kind of become you know one of these hot buzzwords right all of a sudden as as our data storage just become more capable and has become cheaper we tend to hoard more stuff right now listen we're hanging on things a lot longer so what is the gap exactly you're talking about that you're filling and what's the need that you're addressing specifically then you have all this data at your disposal and and and I guess with Flash movie great question John so what what happens is when you first of all let's talk about what's driving the flash analogy right why why flash is so popular right now everybody that we've talked to is either moving to flash or thinking about moving to flash simply for their primary applications you know those are things like databases virtualization filers you know SharePoint right and as you start to move you get you get really good benefits around effects from using your flash because the speed and the performance particularly with what they do they've got some compression stuff that's unbelievable and then what we do is we overlay that so if you take CDM which was your question if you look at CDM what CDM does copy data management it allows you to deal with all of these copies in the in the world today you've got so many of the vendors that are taking different snapshots at different times and you end up at any given time I think IDC did a study what was it like 50 50 versions of an email that you've got floating around is any given time floating in your organization right so what Vaughn was referring to let's take one example in a test dev environment right we could drive home on that which they do a lot more than that but if you take the test stab and let's say you're a developer and you have an Oracle database that you really want to test the latest data right now without flash without CDM what happens is you make a copy of that database you move it to the developers and getting that copy if you're a developer getting that copy away from the internal IT infrastructure department can take you hours can take days go ahead we've we've got customers whose current copy data management process is it is is fulfilled by either a full-time employee or a staff that runs around doing arm and restores or restores from tape and development teams have to try to anticipate weeks in advance when a new copy of the data that model has been the the de facto standard in the industry for a decade or more and in what you're seeing from from all conversations around DevOps is agility it's time to how can I no increase the rate at which we innovate part of it is by bringing agility into your development process and so so this is a real nice pairing of technologies the performance capabilities within a flash a flash array allows you to scale a large number of instances the instant ability to clone the data set gives you gives you the agility but it's just an engine I still have to take care of the rest of the stack I got a role based access which users get to see which data do I need a datum ask the data or do they get direct access are they having a virtual copy or a physical right and best part can I make it a portal or can I make it right into their native workflow so they never hit the storage team or even the infrastructure team so let's talk about how customers are going to use this right pure has been a big leader not just in flash but and also digital efficiency capacity efficiency and you've had to be that right from the get-go people are saying well how am I going to be able to get the cost you know the effect of costs down of this flash well you have dee doop and you have compression and now you're adding this application layer or higher layer if you will another layer of the stack towards you know data density do you think this is going to have you done run the numbers on what kind of percentage or anything like that that customers will see absolutely kind of kind of absolute ken so I'm actually doing in the solution booth I think 430 tomorrow's solution a the vmworld booth we've got a customer six flags theme park operator that doing this test dev case we saved ninety percent affects efficiency for these guys so there's some really solid number again 90 90 90 / such a big number what's a huge number but it's what is what Vaughn was trying to say if you start marrying the workflow if you take their ability to make the storage and the moving the data more efficient and you'll ever their tool and then you overlay it with our api's we have rest api is that you can tie into a customer environment and then we've got to work flow this workflow engine that we call full stack automation the customer can start automating a lot of the stuff that they're trying to do and it's a home run yeah let's be let's be get a little bit in greater depth here but not too deep yeah these capabilities have existed in market for a long time yeah but the customers had to assemble and build their own scriptures in a fool's the phone and again we're not talking just copying of the data yeah we're giving you an efficiency in the copy data engine with it running on the flash array right what cata logic is doing is giving you a single interface either via portal or API for the entire orc for the orchestration of the entire stack the test Network the virtual machines the physical servers the volume managers all the way down to the copy of the data absolutely so I'm going to dive even deeper bond what kind of skill set be careful what did I get wet what kind of skill set does a customer need to have to take advantage of this solution so that's that's a beautiful question because it goes back to the synergy between our two companies right we're known for being able to set up storage in under an hour that requires no administrative skill set right nothing to tune much like very much like an iphone right kind of out of the box there's no manual right cata logics in the same boat you download an ova you're up and running in 30 minutes you're connected to the pure array in four at 40 minutes yeah you're connected ad and 50 and you're running you're off to the races right we don't have any boxes no appliance versus our competitors out there right we don't have any agents to install no appliances it's just it's the perfect match simplistic and we're running and through api's right we're getting we're getting consistent application consistent copies of the data sets right and we're orchestrating through the built in infrastructures that that already exists whether we're looking at vSphere or the rest of the ecosystem so say a customer does their own development and they've got they've got people that know how to use api's program for api's will they be able to will they be any faster be able to do more with it or does it really not what it does this gets back to the effects issue right so so with our REST API they can tie it in and we've already got a lot of things that are tied in like some of the development tools out there chef puppet bluemix from IBM I mean these are all things that we we can kind of work with to complete the environment and allowed them to lever is amazing platform does that answer your question I think yeah so what about the market for this right it a happy data management took a while to take off right it's one of those things in data management has always been a tough thing and it takes a while for customers to sort of get a what what I'm going to say a group think and the critical mass of people thinking about it it looks like you've had some help in the last year with other vendors getting in well and popularizing it you know EMC has theirs and commvault I think is doing something in my response is talking about it now you know 18 months ago those of what he did but what started it mark and this is and that's a great question is what I was alluding to earlier once flash comes on the scene and particularly flash vendors that can do what they do that have got a huge cat-back saving or opik savings for the customer then you can start working in their workflow in their processes and saving them even more money so it actually is copy data management with flash storage can becomes almost to have to have versus and the other things that we were doing a year ago it was a nice to have what i call a nice to have right because if you start looking at how to save yourself money from an effects perspective you might as well look at how to go all the way and sometimes you can triple to 10 times your savings geometrically by adding see the right CDM what i call enhance CDM what our customers sometimes say is they call us a CDM on steroids copy data management on steroids that's energy is a big thing if you've looked at the industry historically what you've seen as storage vendors put out their own homogeneous right automation walls right point bond and then you've seen a number of heterogeneous vendors to play their tools but they don't want to have any correlation with any hardware vendor right right and so and so as a storage provider right and customers are looking to say well look I don't wanna get locked in a particular storage provider and right so that's one aspect as a storage vendor we're sitting there saying we'd like to have greater integration your ecosystem so we can bubble up our value cattle logics kind of hit that sweet spot and said we're going to be heterogeneous we're going to be multi-platform and we're going to leverage leverage the channel right hundred percent channel driven and we're going to leverage the API and the data management ecosystem the storage vendors so they've kind of got a perfect storm going on in terms of a technology and market momentum if you like ok so let's talk about how the solution is going to be delivered you sell it do you sell it do you sell into pure accounts you talked about channel we're getting we're going to meet in the channel okay we're also talking about doing some more creative things possibly up for right now it's a meet in the channel we think there's enough enough good networking the teams are in touch with each other you know the value proposition proves itself right if somebody when's it going to be available in another month or so so there are demonstrations available both in the cat illogic and in the pure storage booth here at vmworld I so we would we would encourage those who are interested in seeing the power of this this solution to stop by either booth at any time we're going to speaking sessions in each others as well this week absolutely up and we are currently targeting for somewhere between mid to end-september for a ga release right and I need to say one other thing going back to this the reason this works is because these guys have but one care and they are customer driven right they don't have an ego they are driving to the customer and fulfill the needs because as he said it's sometimes hard for a heterogeneous vendor that controls a lot to be welcomed as much as we've been welcomed with this group it's because they know they want to drive it through the customer get the best solution in the world of the customer so on the customer side you've talked about the perfect storm of services and products who's the perfect customer who's the optimal customer something like this that I i think the low-hanging fruit is any development team that has as some requirement where they are taking copies of their current data set and are developing off of that platform I think that's the low-hanging fruit I think at a more macro level any organization that says they have a DevOps initiative and particularly they want to turn key DevOps platform to be riding with and launch launch ahead versus a try to acquire talent to build their own this is rate rate within your wheelhouse good deal no brainer and if people aren't looking at that right now you know they're not they're not in this century right because everybody's moving to flash for the primary all the projections are going forward to going off the charts in terms of the growth of flash of what's gonna happen at any what's changed with flash right where four years ago sure had to kind of get over the hurdle of the price berry for flat right we did that with industry-leading data reduction that's still two x better than the rest of the industry but as flash prices keep coming down not what you're seeing as a pivot around around value is around making multiple data sets I mean if you get into a depth use case and I'm making ten copies of a data footprint that's already reduced by x 5x and you're getting to a price point that you just you can't you can't meet with with this because you couldn't drive enough performance either death actually that's not possible yeah well before I let you go I want to tell you it's just disappointing to us that you're not more enthusiastic so and super a little it's really impressed today we had a long night life maybe tomorrow things will pick up but congratulations on the business venture and wish you the best of luck down the road thanks for being well thank you thank you guys for having us on really enjoyed it appreciate it thank huh thank you back with more from vmworld right after this here on the cube