>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR, this is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> This past week we saw two of the Big 3 cloud providers present the latest update on their respective cloud visions, their business progress, their announcements and innovations. The content at these events had many overlapping themes, including modern cloud infrastructure at global scale, applying advanced machine intelligence, AKA AI, end-to-end data platforms, collaboration software. They talked a lot about the future of work automation. And they gave us a little taste, each company of the Metaverse Web 3.0 and much more. Despite these striking similarities, the differences between these two cloud platforms and that of AWS remains significant. With Microsoft leveraging its massive application software footprint to dominate virtually all markets and Google doing everything in its power to keep up with the frenetic pace of today's cloud innovation, which was set into motion a decade and a half ago by AWS. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights, powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we unpack the immense amount of content presented by the CEOs of Microsoft and Google Cloud at Microsoft Ignite and Google Cloud Next. We'll also quantify with ETR survey data the relative position of these two cloud giants in four key sectors: cloud IaaS, BI analytics, data platforms and collaboration software. Now one thing was clear this past week, hybrid events are the thing. Google Cloud Next took place live over a 24-hour period in six cities around the world, with the main gathering in New York City. Microsoft Ignite, which normally is attended by 30,000 people, had a smaller event in Seattle, in person with a virtual audience around the world. AWS re:Invent, of course, is much different. Yes, there's a virtual component at re:Invent, but it's all about a big live audience gathering the week after Thanksgiving, in the first week of December in Las Vegas. Regardless, Satya Nadella keynote address was prerecorded. It was highly produced and substantive. It was visionary, energetic with a strong message that Azure was a platform to allow customers to build their digital businesses. Doing more with less, which was a key theme of his. Nadella covered a lot of ground, starting with infrastructure from the compute, highlighting a collaboration with Arm-based, Ampere processors. New block storage, 60 regions, 175,000 miles of fiber cables around the world. He presented a meaningful multi-cloud message with Azure Arc to support on-prem and edge workloads, as well as of course the public cloud. And talked about confidential computing at the infrastructure level, a theme we hear from all cloud vendors. He then went deeper into the end-to-end data platform that Microsoft is building from the core data stores to analytics, to governance and the myriad tooling Microsoft offers. AI was next with a big focus on automation, AI, training models. He showed demos of machines coding and fixing code and machines automatically creating designs for creative workers and how Power Automate, Microsoft's RPA tooling, would combine with Microsoft Syntex to understand documents and provide standard ways for organizations to communicate with those documents. There was of course a big focus on Azure as developer cloud platform with GitHub Copilot as a linchpin using AI to assist coders in low-code and no-code innovations that are coming down the pipe. And another giant theme was a workforce transformation and how Microsoft is using its heritage and collaboration and productivity software to move beyond what Nadella called productivity paranoia, i.e., are remote workers doing their jobs? In a world where collaboration is built into intelligent workflows, and he even showed a glimpse of the future with AI-powered avatars and partnerships with Meta and Cisco with Teams of all firms. And finally, security with a bevy of tools from identity, endpoint, governance, et cetera, stressing a suite of tools from a single provider, i.e., Microsoft. So a couple points here. One, Microsoft is following in the footsteps of AWS with silicon advancements and didn't really emphasize that trend much except for the Ampere announcement. But it's building out cloud infrastructure at a massive scale, there is no debate about that. Its plan on data is to try and provide a somewhat more abstracted and simplified solutions, which differs a little bit from AWS's approach of the right database tool, for example, for the right job. Microsoft's automation play appears to provide simple individual productivity tools, kind of a ground up approach and make it really easy for users to drive these bottoms up initiatives. We heard from UiPath that forward five last month, a little bit of a different approach of horizontal automation, end-to-end across platforms. So quite a different play there. Microsoft's angle on workforce transformation is visionary and will continue to solidify in our view its dominant position with Teams and Microsoft 365, and it will drive cloud infrastructure consumption by default. On security as well as a cloud player, it has to have world-class security, and Azure does. There's not a lot of debate about that, but the knock on Microsoft is Patch Tuesday becomes Hack Wednesday because Microsoft releases so many patches, it's got so much Swiss cheese in its legacy estate and patching frequently, it becomes a roadmap and a trigger for hackers. Hey, patch Tuesday, these are all the exploits that you can go after so you can act before the patches are implemented. And so it's really become a problem for users. As well Microsoft is competing with many of the best-of-breed platforms like CrowdStrike and Okta, which have market momentum and appear to be more attractive horizontal plays for customers outside of just the Microsoft cloud. But again, it's Microsoft. They make it easy and very inexpensive to adopt. Now, despite the outstanding presentation by Satya Nadella, there are a couple of statements that should raise eyebrows. Here are two of them. First, as he said, Azure is the only cloud that supports all organizations and all workloads from enterprises to startups, to highly regulated industries. I had a conversation with Sarbjeet Johal about this, to make sure I wasn't just missing something and we were both surprised, somewhat, by this claim. I mean most certainly AWS supports more certifications for example, and we would think it has a reasonable case to dispute that claim. And the other statement, Nadella made, Azure is the only cloud provider enabling highly regulated industries to bring their most sensitive applications to the cloud. Now, reasonable people can debate whether AWS is there yet, but very clearly Oracle and IBM would have something to say about that statement. Now maybe it's not just, would say, "Oh, they're not real clouds, you know, they're just going to hosting in the cloud if you will." But still, when it comes to mission-critical applications, you would think Oracle is really the the leader there. Oh, and Satya also mentioned the claim that the Edge browser, the Microsoft Edge browser, no questions asked, he said, is the best browser for business. And we could see some people having some questions about that. Like isn't Edge based on Chrome? Anyway, so we just had to question these statements and challenge Microsoft to defend them because to us it's a little bit of BS and makes one wonder what else in such as awesome keynote and it was awesome, it was hyperbole. Okay, moving on to Google Cloud Next. The keynote started with Sundar Pichai doing a virtual session, he was remote, stressing the importance of Google Cloud. He mentioned that Google Cloud from its Q2 earnings was on a $25-billion annual run rate. What he didn't mention is that it's also on a 3.6 billion annual operating loss run rate based on its first half performance. Just saying. And we'll dig into that issue a little bit more later in this episode. He also stressed that the investments that Google has made to support its core business and search, like its global network of 22 subsea cables to support things like, YouTube video, great performance obviously that we all rely on, those innovations there. Innovations in BigQuery to support its search business and its threat analysis that it's always had and its AI, it's always been an AI-first company, he's stressed, that they're all leveraged by the Google Cloud Platform, GCP. This is all true by the way. Google has absolutely awesome tech and the talk, as well as his talk, Pichai, but also Kurian's was forward thinking and laid out a vision of the future. But it didn't address in our view, and I talked to Sarbjeet Johal about this as well, today's challenges to the degree that Microsoft did and we expect AWS will at re:Invent this year, it was more out there, more forward thinking, what's possible in the future, somewhat less about today's problem, so I think it's resonates less with today's enterprise players. Thomas Kurian then took over from Sundar Pichai and did a really good job of highlighting customers, and I think he has to, right? He has to say, "Look, we are in this game. We have customers, 9 out of the top 10 media firms use Google Cloud. 8 out of the top 10 manufacturers. 9 out of the top 10 retailers. Same for telecom, same for healthcare. 8 out of the top 10 retail banks." He and Sundar specifically referenced a number of companies, customers, including Avery Dennison, Groupe Renault, H&M, John Hopkins, Prudential, Minna Bank out of Japan, ANZ bank and many, many others during the session. So you know, they had some proof points and you got to give 'em props for that. Now like Microsoft, Google talked about infrastructure, they referenced training processors and regions and compute optionality and storage and how new workloads were emerging, particularly data-driven workloads in AI that required new infrastructure. He explicitly highlighted partnerships within Nvidia and Intel. I didn't see anything on Arm, which somewhat surprised me 'cause I believe Google's working on that or at least has come following in AWS's suit if you will, but maybe that's why they're not mentioning it or maybe I got to do more research there, but let's park that for a minute. But again, as we've extensively discussed in Breaking Analysis in our view when it comes to compute, AWS via its Annapurna acquisition is well ahead of the pack in this area. Arm is making its way into the enterprise, but all three companies are heavily investing in infrastructure, which is great news for customers and the ecosystem. We'll come back to that. Data and AI go hand in hand, and there was no shortage of data talk. Google didn't mention Snowflake or Databricks specifically, but it did mention, by the way, it mentioned Mongo a couple of times, but it did mention Google's, quote, Open Data cloud. Now maybe Google has used that term before, but Snowflake has been marketing the data cloud concept for a couple of years now. So that struck as a shot across the bow to one of its partners and obviously competitor, Snowflake. At BigQuery is a main centerpiece of Google's data strategy. Kurian talked about how they can take any data from any source in any format from any cloud provider with BigQuery Omni and aggregate and understand it. And with the support of Apache Iceberg and Delta and Hudi coming in the future and its open Data Cloud Alliance, they talked a lot about that. So without specifically mentioning Snowflake or Databricks, Kurian co-opted a lot of messaging from these two players, such as life and tech. Kurian also talked about Google Workspace and how it's now at 8 million users up from 6 million just two years ago. There's a lot of discussion on developer optionality and several details on tools supported and the open mantra of Google. And finally on security, Google brought out Kevin Mandian, he's a CUBE alum, extremely impressive individual who's CEO of Mandiant, a leading security service provider and consultancy that Google recently acquired for around 5.3 billion. They talked about moving from a shared responsibility model to a shared fate model, which is again, it's kind of a shot across AWS's bow, kind of shared responsibility model. It's unclear that Google will pay the same penalty if a customer doesn't live up to its portion of the shared responsibility, but we can probably assume that the customer is still going to bear the brunt of the pain, nonetheless. Mandiant is really interesting because it's a services play and Google has stated that it is not a services company, it's going to give partners in the channel plenty of room to play. So we'll see what it does with Mandiant. But Mandiant is a very strong enterprise capability and in the single most important area security. So interesting acquisition by Google. Now as well, unlike Microsoft, Google is not competing with security leaders like Okta and CrowdStrike. Rather, it's partnering aggressively with those firms and prominently putting them forth. All right. Let's get into the ETR survey data and see how Microsoft and Google are positioned in four key markets that we've mentioned before, IaaS, BI analytics, database data platforms and collaboration software. First, let's look at the IaaS cloud. ETR is just about to release its October survey, so I cannot share the that data yet. I can only show July data, but we're going to give you some directional hints throughout this conversation. This chart shows net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and overlap or presence in the data, i.e., how pervasive the platform is. That's on the horizontal axis. And we've inserted the Wikibon estimates of IaaS revenue for the companies, the Big 3. Actually the Big 4, we included Alibaba. So a couple of points in this somewhat busy data chart. First, Microsoft and AWS as always are dominant on both axes. The red dotted line there at 40% on the vertical axis. That represents a highly elevated spending velocity and all of the Big 3 are above the line. Now at the same time, GCP is well behind the two leaders on the horizontal axis and you can see that in the table insert as well in our revenue estimates. Now why is Azure bigger in the ETR survey when AWS is larger according to the Wikibon revenue estimates? And the answer is because Microsoft with products like 365 and Teams will often be considered by respondents in the survey as cloud by customers, so they fit into that ETR category. But in the insert data we're stripping out applications and SaaS from Microsoft and Google and we're only isolating on IaaS. The other point is when you take a look at the early October returns, you see downward pressure as signified by those dotted arrows on every name. The only exception was Dell, or Dell and IBM, which showing slightly improved momentum. So the survey data generally confirms what we know that AWS and Azure have a massive lead and strong momentum in the marketplace. But the real story is below the line. Unlike Google Cloud, which is on pace to lose well over 3 billion on an operating basis this year, AWS's operating profit is around $20 billion annually. Microsoft's Intelligent Cloud generated more than $30 billion in operating income last fiscal year. Let that sink in for a moment. Now again, that's not to say Google doesn't have traction, it does and Kurian gave some nice proof points and customer examples in his keynote presentation, but the data underscores the lead that Microsoft and AWS have on Google in cloud. And here's a breakdown of ETR's proprietary net score methodology, that vertical axis that we showed you in the previous chart. It asks customers, are you adopting the platform new? That's that lime green. Are you spending 6% or more? That's the forest green. Is you're spending flat? That's the gray. Is you're spending down 6% or worse? That's the pinkest color. Or are you replacing the platform, defecting? That's the bright red. You subtract the reds from the greens and you get a net score. Now one caveat here, which actually is really favorable from Microsoft, the Microsoft data that we're showing here is across the entire Microsoft portfolio. The other point is, this is July data, we'll have an update for you once ETR releases its October results. But we're talking about meaningful samples here, the ends. 620 for AWS over a thousand from Microsoft in more than 450 respondents in the survey for Google. So the real tell is replacements, that bright red. There is virtually no churn for AWS and Microsoft, but Google's churn is 5x, those two in the survey. Now 5% churn is not high, but you'd like to see three things for Google given it's smaller size. One is less churn, two is much, much higher adoption rates in the lime green. Three is a higher percentage of those spending more, the forest green. And four is a lower percentage of those spending less. And none of these conditions really applies here for Google. GCP is still not growing fast enough in our opinion, and doesn't have nearly the traction of the two leaders and that shows up in the survey data. All right, let's look at the next sector, BI analytics. Here we have that same XY dimension. Again, Microsoft dominating the picture. AWS very strong also in both axes. Tableau, very popular and respectable of course acquired by Salesforce on the vertical axis, still looking pretty good there. And again on the horizontal axis, big presence there for Tableau. And Google with Looker and its other platforms is also respectable, but it again, has some work to do. Now notice Streamlit, that's a recent Snowflake acquisition. It's strong in the vertical axis and because of Snowflake's go-to-market (indistinct), it's likely going to move to the right overtime. Grafana is also prominent in the Y axis, but a glimpse at the most recent survey data shows them slightly declining while Looker actually improves a bit. As does Cloudera, which we'll move up slightly. Again, Microsoft just blows you away, doesn't it? All right, now let's get into database and data platform. Same X Y dimensions, but now database and data warehouse. Snowflake as usual takes the top spot on the vertical axis and it is actually keeps moving to the right as well with again, Microsoft and AWS is dominant in the market, as is Oracle on the X axis, albeit it's got less spending velocity, but of course it's the database king. Google is well behind on the X axis but solidly above the 40% line on the vertical axis. Note that virtually all platforms will see pressure in the next survey due to the macro environment. Microsoft might even dip below the 40% line for the first time in a while. Lastly, let's look at the collaboration and productivity software market. This is such an important area for both Microsoft and Google. And just look at Microsoft with 365 and Teams up into the right. I mean just so impressive in ubiquitous. And we've highlighted Google. It's in the pack. It certainly is a nice base with 174 N, which I can tell you that N will rise in the next survey, which is an indication that more people are adopting. But given the investment and the tech behind it and all the AI and Google's resources, you'd really like to see Google in this space above the 40% line, given the importance of this market, of this collaboration area to Google's success and the degree to which they emphasize it in their pitch. And look, this brings up something that we've talked about before on Breaking Analysis. Google doesn't have a tech problem. This is a go-to-market and marketing challenge that Google faces and it's up against two go-to-market champs and Microsoft and AWS. And Google doesn't have the enterprise sales culture. It's trying, it's making progress, but it's like that racehorse that has all the potential in the world, but it's just missing some kind of key ingredient to put it over at the top. It's always coming in third, (chuckles) but we're watching and Google's obviously, making some investments as we shared with earlier. All right. Some final thoughts on what we learned this week and in this research: customers and partners should be thrilled that both Microsoft and Google along with AWS are spending so much money on innovation and building out global platforms. This is a gift to the industry and we should be thankful frankly because it's good for business, it's good for competitiveness and future innovation as a platform that can be built upon. Now we didn't talk much about multi-cloud, we haven't even mentioned supercloud, but both Microsoft and Google have a story that resonates with customers in cross cloud capabilities, unlike AWS at this time. But we never say never when it comes to AWS. They sometimes and oftentimes surprise you. One of the other things that Sarbjeet Johal and John Furrier and I have discussed is that each of the Big 3 is positioning to their respective strengths. AWS is the best IaaS. Microsoft is building out the kind of, quote, we-make-it-easy-for-you cloud, and Google is trying to be the open data cloud with its open-source chops and excellent tech. And that puts added pressure on Snowflake, doesn't it? You know, Thomas Kurian made some comments according to CRN, something to the effect that, we are the only company that can do the data cloud thing across clouds, which again, if I'm being honest is not really accurate. Now I haven't clarified these statements with Google and often things get misquoted, but there's little question that, as AWS has done in the past with Redshift, Google is taking a page out of Snowflake, Databricks as well. A big difference in the Big 3 is that AWS doesn't have this big emphasis on the up-the-stack collaboration software that both Microsoft and Google have, and that for Microsoft and Google will drive captive IaaS consumption. AWS obviously does some of that in database, a lot of that in database, but ISVs that compete with Microsoft and Google should have a greater affinity, one would think, to AWS for competitive reasons. and the same thing could be said in security, we would think because, as I mentioned before, Microsoft competes very directly with CrowdStrike and Okta and others. One of the big thing that Sarbjeet mentioned that I want to call out here, I'd love to have your opinion. AWS specifically, but also Microsoft with Azure have successfully created what Sarbjeet calls brand distance. AWS from the Amazon Retail, and even though AWS all the time talks about Amazon X and Amazon Y is in their product portfolio, but you don't really consider it part of the retail organization 'cause it's not. Azure, same thing, has created its own identity. And it seems that Google still struggles to do that. It's still very highly linked to the sort of core of Google. Now, maybe that's by design, but for enterprise customers, there's still some potential confusion with Google, what's its intentions? How long will they continue to lose money and invest? Are they going to pull the plug like they do on so many other tools? So you know, maybe some rethinking of the marketing there and the positioning. Now we didn't talk much about ecosystem, but it's vital for any cloud player, and Google again has some work to do relative to the leaders. Which brings us to supercloud. The ecosystem and end customers are now in a position this decade to digitally transform. And we're talking here about building out their own clouds, not by putting in and building data centers and installing racks of servers and storage devices, no. Rather to build value on top of the hyperscaler gift that has been presented. And that is a mega trend that we're watching closely in theCUBE community. While there's debate about the supercloud name and so forth, there little question in our minds that the next decade of cloud will not be like the last. All right, we're going to leave it there today. Many thanks to Sarbjeet Johal, and my business partner, John Furrier, for their input to today's episode. Thanks to Alex Myerson who's on production and manages the podcast and Ken Schiffman as well. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight helped get the word out on social media and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at SiliconANGLE, who does some wonderful editing. And check out SiliconANGLE, a lot of coverage on Google Cloud Next and Microsoft Ignite. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcast wherever you listen. Just search Breaking Analysis podcast. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. And you can always get in touch with me via email, david.vellante@siliconangle.com or you can DM me at dvellante or comment on my LinkedIn posts. And please do check out etr.ai, the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for the CUBE Insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on Breaking Analysis. (gentle music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to this Cube conversation. I'm Dave Nicholson, and this is part of our continuing coverage of Google Cloud Next 2021. We have a very interesting subject to discuss. I have two special guests from Google to join me in a conversation about the financial services space. I'm joined by Yolande Piazza, vice president of financial services sales for Google Cloud and Zac Mauf, managing director for global financial services solutions for Google Cloud. Yolande and Zac, welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you for having us. Looking forward to it. >> Well it's great to have you here. You know, financial services is really an interesting area when you talk about cloud because I'm sure you both remember a time, not that long ago, when we could ask a financial services organization, what their plans for cloud or what their cloud strategy was, and they would give a one word answer and that answer was, never. (laughing) So Zac, let's start out with you, what has changed? Are you and Yolande going to tell us that in fact, financial services organizations are leveraging cloud now? >> Yeah, it's a very exciting time to be in the cloud space, in financial services, because you're exactly right David. People are starting to make the transition to cloud in a real way. And a lot has gone into that, as you know, it's a highly regulated space and so there were a lot of legitimate reasons around getting kind of the regulatory frameworks in place and making sure that the risk and compliance pieces were addressed. But then there was also, as you know, technology is a major backbone for financial services. And so there's also this question of, how do we transition? And a lot of work and time has gone into moving workloads, thinking about like, what is the sort of the right migration strategy for you to get from the current situation to a more cloud native world. And to your point, we're really early, we're really early, but we're very excited and we've been investing heavily on our side to get those foundational pieces in place. But we also realized that we have to think about what are the business cases, that we want to build on top of cloud. It's not just a kind of IT modernization, which is a big part of the story, but the other part of the story is once you get all of this, technology onto the cloud platform, there are things that you can do that you couldn't do in on-prem situations. And a lot of that for us is around the data, AI and ML space. And we really see that being the way to really unlock huge amounts of value. Both of them require massive amounts of compute and breaking down all of these silos that have really developed over time within financial institutions. And really moving to the cloud is the way to unlock a lot of that. So we're really excited about a lot of those use cases that are starting to come to life now. >> Yeah. So I want to dig a little deeper on some of that Zac, but before we do, Yolande make this real for us. Give me some examples of actual real-life financial services organizations and what they're doing with Google Cloud now. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think we're really proud to be able to announce, a number of new partnerships across the industry. You think about Wells Fargo, you think about Scotia Bank, you think about what we're doing with HSBC. They really are starting to bring to life and recognized that it's not just internally, you have to look at that transformation to cloud, it's really, how do you use this platform to help you go on the journey with your customers? I think a move to a multi-cloud common approach for our customers and our clients, is exactly what we need to be focused on. And the other- >> Hold on, hold on, Yolande. I'm sorry. Did the Google person just say multi-cloud? Because multi- cloud doesn't sound like, only Google Cloud to me. Can you- >> No, and I think Wells, absolutely, and I think Wells announced it's taking a multi-cloud approach to its digital infrastructure strategy, leveraging both Google Cloud and Microsoft Azure. And the reason being is they've openly communicated that a locked in and preparatory systems, isn't the way to go for them. They want that open flexibility. They want the ability to be able to move workloads across the different industries. And I think it's well known that this aligns completely with our principles and at Google we've always said that we support open multi and hybrid cloud strategies because we believe our customers should be able to run what they want, where they want it. And that was exactly the philosophy that that Wells took. So, and if you look at what they were trying to do is they're looking to be able to serve their customers in a different way. I think that it's true now that customers are looking for personalized services, instant gratification, the ability to interact, where they want and when they want. So we're walking with the Wells teams to really bring to life through AI, our complex AI and data solutions to really enable them to move at speed and serve their customers in a rapidly changing world. >> So Yolande, part of the move to cloud includes the fact that we're all human beings and perception can become reality. Issues like security, which are always at the forefront of someone's mind in financial services space, there is the perception, and then there is the reality. Walk us through today where perception is in the financial services space. And then Zac, I'm going to go back to you to tell us what's the reality. And is there a disconnect? Because often technology in this space has been ahead of people's comfort level for rational reasons. So Yolande, can you talk about from a perception perspective where people are. >> So I have to tell you, we are having conversations with both the incumbents and traditional organizations, as well as, the uprising, the fintechs, and the neobanks around how does technology really unlock and unleash a new business model. So we're talking about things like how does technology and help them grow that organization. How does it take out costs in that organization? How do you use all cloud platform to think about managing risks, whether that's operational, whether it's reputational, industry or regulatory type risk? And then how do we enable our partners and our customers to be able to move at speed? So all of those conversations are now on the table. And I think a big shift from when Zac and I both were sitting on the other side of the table in those financial services industries is a recognition that this couldn't and shouldn't be done alone, that it's going to require a partnership, it's going to require, really shifting to put technology at the forefront. And I think when you talk about perception, I would say a couple of years ago, I think it was more of a perception that they were really technology companies. And I think now we're really starting to see the shifts that these are technology companies serving their customers in a banking environment. >> So Zac, can you give us some- Yeah. Yeah. Zac, can you give us some examples of how that plays out from a solutions perspective? What are some of the things that you and Yolande are having conversations with these folks in? >> Yeah. - I mean, absolutely. I think there's three major trends that we're seeing, where I think we can bring the power of sort of the Google ecosystem to really change business models and change how things are done. The first is really this massive change that's been happening for like over 10 years now, but it's really this change in customers, expecting financial institutions to meet them where they are. And that started with information being delivered to them through mobile devices and online banking. And then it went to payments, and now it's going into lending and it's going into insurance. But it changes the way that financial services companies need to operate because now they need to figure out how to deliver everything digitally, embedded into the experience that their customers are having in all of these digital ecosystems. So there's lot that we're doing in that space. The second is really around modernizing the technology environment. There is still a massive amount of paper in these organizations. Most of it has been transferred to digital paper, but the workflows and the processes that are still needing to be streamlined. And there's a lot that we can do with our AI model and technology to be able to basically take unstructured data and create structured data. Thank Google Photos, you can now search for your photo library and find, pictures of you on bridges. The same thing we can now do with documents and routine interactions with chat bot. People are expecting 24/7 service. And a lot of people want to be able to interact through chat versus through voice. And the final part of this that we're seeing a lot of use cases in is in the kind of risk and regulatory space. Coming out of the financial crisis, there was this need to massively upgrade everybody's data capabilities and control and risk environments, because so much it was very manual, and a lot of the data to do a lot of the risk and control work was kind of glued together. So everybody went off and built data lakes and figured out that that was actually a really difficult challenge and they quickly became data swamps. And so really how do you unlock the value of those things? Those three use cases, and there's lots of things underneath those, are areas that we're working with customers on. And it's, like you said, it's really exciting because the perception has changed. The perception has changed that now cloud is the sort of future, and everybody is kind of now realized they have to figure out how to engage. And I think a lot of the partnership things that Yolande was talking about is absolutely true. They're looking for a strategic relationship versus a vendor relationship, and those are really exciting changes for us. >> So I just imagined a scenario where a Dave, Zac, and Yolande are at the cloud pub talking after hours over a few pints, and Dave says, "Wow, you know, 75%, 80% of IT is still on-premises." And Yolande looks at me and says, "On-premises? We're dealing with on-paper still." Such as the life of a financial services expert in this space. So Yolande, what would you consider sort of the final frontier or at least the next frontier in cloud meets financial services? What are the challenges that we have yet to overcome? I just mentioned, the large amount of stuff that's still on premises, the friction associated with legacy applications and infrastructure. That's one whole thing. But is there one thing that in a calendar year, 2022, if you guys could solve this for the financial services industry, what would it be? And if I'm putting you on the spot, so be it. >> No, no. I'm not going to hold it to just one thing. I think the shift, I think the shift to personalization and how does the power of, you know, AI and machine learning really start to change and get into way more predictive technologies. As I mentioned, customers want to be a segmentation of one. They don't want to be forced fit into the traditional banking ecosystems. There's a reason that customers have on average 14 different financial services apps on their phones. Yep. Less than three to 5% of their screen time is actually spent on them. It's because something is missing in that environment. There's a reason that you could go to any social media site and in no time at all, be able to pull up over 200 different communities of people trying to find out financial services information in layman's terms that is relevant to them. So the ability and where we're really doubling down is on this personalization. Being way more predictive, understanding where a customer is on their journey and being able to meet them at that point, whether that's the bright offers, whether that's recognizing, to Zac's point, that they've come in on one channel but they now want to switch to another channel. And how do they not have to start again every time? So these are some of the basics things, so we really doubled down on how do we start to solve in those areas. I think also the shift, I think in many cases, especially in the risk space, it's been very much what I would call, a people process technology approach, start to imagine what happens if you turn that around and think about how technology can help you be more predictive internally in your business and create better outcomes. So I think there's so many areas of opportunities, and what's really exciting is we're not restricted, we're having conversations that are titled, the art of the possible, or the future of, or help us come in and reinvent. So I think you're going to see a lot of shift probably in the next 12 to 18 months, I would say, and the capabilities and the ability to service the customer differently and meet them on their journey. >> Well, it sounds like the life of a cloud financial services person is much more pleasurable than back when it consisted of primarily running into brick walls constantly. This conversation five or 10 years ago would have been more like, please trust us, please. Just give us a shot. >> I think Zac and I both reminisce that we couldn't have joined at a more exciting time. It's the locker or whatever you want to call it, but it is a completely different world and the conversations are fun and refreshing, and you can really start to see how we have the ability to partner to change the landscape, across all of the different financial services industries. And I think that's what keeps Zac and I going every day. >> And you said earlier that you alluded to the idea that you used to be on the other side of the table, in other words, in the financial services industry on the customer side. So you pick the right time to come across. >> Without a doubt, without a doubt. Yes. >> Well, with that, I want to thank both of you for joining me today. This is really fascinating. Financial services is something that touches all of us individually in our daily lives. It's something that everyone can relate to at some level. And it also represents, that tip of the spear, the cutting edge of cloud. So very interesting. Thank you both again, pleasure to meet you both. Next time, hopefully it will be in-person and we can compare our steps that we've taken during the conference. With that I'll sign off. This has been a fantastic Cube conversation, part of our continuing coverage of Google Cloud Next 2021. I'm Dave Nicholson, Thanks again for joining us. >> Thank you. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to this Cube Conversation. I'm Dave Nicholson, and this is continuing coverage of Google Cloud Next '21. I'm joined today by Sachin Gupta, General Manager and Vice President of Open Infrastructure at Google Cloud. Sachin, welcome to theCube. >> Thanks Dave, it's great to be here. >> So, you and I both know that the definition of what constitutes Cloud has been hotly contested by some over the last 20 years. But I think you and I both know that in some quarters there really has never been a debate. NIST, for example, the standard body that calls out what constitutes Cloud, has always considered Cloud an operational model, a set of capabilities, and it has never considered Cloud specifically tied to a location. With that in mind, how about if you share with us what was announced at Cloud Next '21 around Google Distributed Cloud? >> Yeah, thanks Dave. The power of Cloud in terms of automation, simplicity, observability, is undeniable, but our mission at Google Cloud is to ensure that we're meeting customers where they are, in their digital transformation journey. And so in talking to customers, we found that there are some reasons that could prevent them to move certain workloads to Cloud. And that could be because there's a low latency requirement. There is high amounts of data processing that needs to happen on-prem. So taking data from on-prem, moving into the Cloud to get it processed and all the way back may not be very efficient. There could be security, privacy, data residency, compliance requirements that they're dealing with. And then some industries, for some customers, there's some very strict data sovereignty requirements that don't allow them to move things into the public Cloud. And so when we talked to customers, we realized that we needed to extend the Cloud, and therefore we introduced Google Distributor Cloud at Next 2021. And what Google Distributed Cloud provides is all of that power of Cloud anywhere the customers need it. And this could be at a Google network edge, it could be at an operator or communication server provider edge as well. It could be at the customer edge, so right on-premise at their site, it could be in their data centers. And so a lot of flexibility in how you deploy three fully managed hardware and software solutions delivered through Google. >> Yeah it's interesting because often statistics are cited that somewhere near 75% of of what we do in IT, is still "on-premises." The reality is, however, that what's happening in those physical locations on the edge is looking a lot more Cloudy, isn't it. (laughs) >> Yes, and the customers are looking for that computational power, storage, automation, simplicity, in all of these locations. >> So what does this look like from an infrastructure stack perspective? Is there some secret sauce that you're layering into this that we should know about? >> Yeah, so let me just talk about it a little bit more. So we start off with third party hardware. So we're sourcing from Dell, HPE, Cisco, Nvidia, NetApp, bringing it together. We're using Anthos, you are hopefully familiar with Anthos, which is our hybrid multi-cloud software layer. And then on top of that, we use open source technologies. For example, built on Kubernetes. We offer a containerized environment, a VM environment, that enables both Google first-party services, as well as third-party services that customers may choose to deploy, on top of this infrastructure. And so the management of the entire infrastructure, top to bottom, is delivered to Google directly, and therefore customers can focus on applications, they can focus on business initiatives, and not worry about the infrastructure complexity. They can just leave that to us. >> So you mentioned both Kubernetes, thinking of containerization as Cloud native, you also said VMs. So this spans the divide between containerized microservices-based applications and say VM-ware style of virtual machines or other VMs? >> Yes, look, the majority of customers are looking to modernize and move to a containerized environment with Kubernetes, but there are some workloads that they may have that still require a VM-like environment, and having the simplicity and the efficiency of operating VMs like containers on top of Google Distributed Cloud, built on Anthos, is extremely powerful for them. And so it goes back to our mission. We're going to meet customers where they are, and if they need VM support as well, we're providing it. >> So let's talk about initial implementations of this. What kind of scale are you anticipating that customers will deploy? >> The scale is going to vary based on use case. So it could be a very small, let's think about it as a single server type of scale, all the way to many, many dozens of racks that could be going in to support Google Distributed Cloud. And so, for example, from a communication service provider point of view, looking to modernize their 5G network, in the core it could be many, many racks with Google Distributed Cloud the edge product. And for their RAM solutions, it could be a much smaller form factor, as an example. And so depending on use case, you're going to find all kinds of different form factors. And I didn't mention this before, but we also, in addition to scale, we offer two operational modes. One is the edge product. So Google Distributed Cloud edge that is connected to the Cloud. And so it gets operational updates, et cetera, directly through the Cloud. And the second one is something we call the hosted mode, and in hosted mode, it's completely air-gapped. So this infrastructure, what is modernized and provides rich 1PN third party services, does not connect to the Cloud at all. And therefore, the organizations that have the strictest data latency sovereignty requirements, can benefit from a completely air-gapped solution as well. >> So I'm curious, let's say you started with an air-gapped model. Often our capabilities in Cloud exceed our customer's comfort level for a period of time. Can that air-gapped, initial implementation be connected to the Cloud in the future? >> The air-gap implementation, typically customers, the same customer, may have multiple deployments, where one will require the air-gap solution, and another could be the hosted solution, and the other could be the edge product, which is connected. And in both cases, the underlying stack is consistent. So, while I don't hear customers saying, "I want to start from air-gap and move," we are providing Google Distributed Cloud as one portfolio to customers so that we can address these different use cases. In the air-gap solution, the software updates obviously still come from Google, and customers need to move that across the air gap check signatures, check for vulnerability, load it in the system, and the system will then automatically update itself. And so the software we still provide, but in that case, there's additional checks that that customer will typically go through before enabling that software onto their system. >> Yeah, so you mentioned at the outset, some of the drivers, latency security, et cetera, but can you restate that? I'd like to hear what the thinking behind this was at Google when customers were presenting you with a variety of problems they needed solutions for. I think it bears recapping that. >> Right, so let me give you a few examples here. So one is, when you think about 5G, when you think about what 4G did for the industry in terms of enabling the gig economy, with 5G we can really enable richer experiences. And this could be highly immersive experiences, it could be augmented reality, it could be all kinds of technologies that require lower latency. And for this, you need to build out the 5G infrastructure on top of a modernized solution like Google Distributed Cloud. Let me just get into a few use cases though, to just bring some color here. For example, for a retailer, instead of worrying about IP and infrastructure in the store, the people in the store can focus on their customers, and they can implement solutions using Google Distributed Cloud for things like inventory management, asset protection, et cetera, in the store. Inside a manufacturing facility, once again, you can reduce incidents, you can reduce injuries, you can look at your robotic solutions that require low latency feedback, et cetera. There's a whole bunch of emerging applications through ISVs, that a rich, on-prem or anywhere you want it in the edge infrastructure, can enable a new suite of possibilities that weren't possible before. In some cases, customers say, "You know what, I want 5G. But I actually you want a private 5G deployment." And that becomes possible with the Google Distributed Cloud as well. >> So we talked a little bit about scale. What's the smallest increment that someone could deploy? You just gave an example of retail. Some retail outfits are small stores, without any IT staff at all. There's the concept of a single-node Kubernetes cluster, which is something we love to come up with in our business terminology that makes no sense, single node cluster. The point is, these increments, especially in the containerized world, are getting smaller. What's the smallest increment that you can deliver, you're planning to deliver? >> I'll answer this two ways. First of all, we are planning to deliver a smallest increment, think of it as one server. We are planning to deliver that as well, all the way up to many, many racks. But in addition, there's something unique that I wanted to call out. Let's say you're in the medium or larger deployment in the racks, and you want to scale up, compute, and store it separately. That's something we enable as well, because we will work with customers in terms of what they need for their application, and then scale that hardware up and down based on their need. And so there's a lot of flexibility in that, but we will enable scale all the way down to a single server unit as well. >> So what is the feedback been from the partners that will be providing the hardware infrastructure, folks like Dell. What has their reaction been? >> I think that they're obviously very eager to work with us. We're happy to partner with them in order to provide customers flexibility, any kind of scale in any kind of location, different kind of hardware equipment that they need. But in addition to those partners on the hardware side, there are customers and partners as well who are enabling rich experiences and solutions for that retailer, for that manufacturer, for example. And so working with AT&T, we announced partnership on 5G and edge to enable experiences, especially in the areas of retail and manufacturing, like I talked about earlier, but then in Europe, we're partnering with OVHcloud, for example, in order to enable very strict data sovereignty requirements that are happening in that country. And so where there's many communication service providers, there's many partners trying to solve for different use cases for their end customers. >> Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Let's pretend for a minute that you're getting Yelp reviews of this infrastructure that you're responsible for moving forward. What would a delighted customer's comments look like? >> I think a delighted customer's comments will be probably in two or three areas, all right? So first up will be, it's all about the applications and the end user experience that this can enable. And so the power of Google AI ML technology, third-party software as well, that can run consistently single operational model, build once, deploy anywhere, is extremely powerful. So I would say, the power of the applications and the simplicity that it enables is number one. I think number two is the scale of operations experience that Google has. They don't need to worry about, "do I have 5 sites or 500 sites or 5,000 sites?" It doesn't matter. The fleet operations, the scaled operations capability, the global network capability that Google has, all that experience in site reliability engineering, we can now bring to all of these vast amounts of edge locations, so they don't need to worry about scale at all. And then finally, they can be sort of rest assured that this is built on Anthos, it's built on Kubernetes, there's a lot of open source components here, they have flexibility, they have choice, they can run our one-piece services, they can run third-party services on this, and so we're going to preserve the flexibility in choice. I think these are the things that would likely get highlighted. >> So Sachin, you talk to customers around the world. Where do you see the mix between net-neu stuff going into infrastructure like this, versus modernized and migrated workloads into the solution? What does that mix look like? And I know it's a bit of speculation, but what are your thoughts? >> I think, Dave, that's a great question, I think it's a difficult one to answer because we find that those conversations happen together with the same customers. At least that's what I find. And so they are looking to modernize, create a much richer environment for their developers, so that they can innovate much more quickly, react to business needs much more quickly, to cater to their own end customers in a much better way, get business insights from the data that they have. They're looking to do all of this, but at the same time, they have, perhaps, legacy infrastructure or applications that they just can't easily migrate off of, that may still be in a VM environment, more traditional type of storage environment, and they need to be able to address both worlds. And so, yes, there are some who are so-called "born in the Cloud," everything is Cloud native, but the vast majority of customers that I talked to, are absolutely looking to modernize, like you don't find a customer that says, "Just help me lift and shift, I'm not looking to modernize." I don't quite see that. They are looking to modernize but they want to make sure that we have the options that they need to support different kinds of environment that they have today. >> And you mentioned insights. We should explore that a little further. Can you give us an example of artificial intelligence, machine learning being used now at the edge, where you're putting more compute power at the edge? Can you give us an idea of the kinds of things that that enables specifically? >> Yes, so when you think about video processing, for example, if I have a lot of video feeds and I'm looking based on that, I want to apply artificial intelligence, I'm trying to detect object inventory movement, people movement, et cetera. Again, adhering to all the privacy and local regulations. When I have that much data streaming in, if I have to take that out of my edge all the way across the WHEN network, into the Cloud for processing, and bring it all the way back and then make a decision, I'm just moving a lot of data up and down into the Cloud. And in this case, what you're able to do is say, no, you don't actually need to move it into the public Cloud. You can keep that data locally. You can have a Google Distributed Cloud edge instance there, you're going to run your AI application right there, achieve the insights and take an action very, very quickly. And so it saves you, from a latency point of view, significantly, and it saves you from a data transmission up and down into the Cloud significantly, which you sometimes, you know, you're not supposed to send that data up, that there's data residency requirements, and sometimes the cost of just moving it, it doesn't make sense. >> So do you have any final thoughts? What else should we know about this? Anything that we didn't touch on? >> I think we've touched on a lot of great things. I think I'm just going to reiterate, you started with a "what is the definition of Cloud itself" and our mission once again, is to really understand what customers are trying to do and meet them where they are. And we're finding that they're looking for Cloud solutions in a public region. We've announced a lot more regions. We continue to grow our footprint globally, but in addition, they want to be able to get that power of Google Cloud infrastructure and all the benefits that it provides in many different edge locations all the way on onto their premises. And I think one of the things we perhaps spent less time on is, we're also very unique that in our strategy, we're bringing in underlying third-party hardware, but it's a fully managed solution that can operate in that connected edge mode, as well as a disconnected hosted mode, which just enables pretty much all the use cases we've heard about from customers. So one portfolio that can address any kind of need that they have. >> Fantastic. Well, I said at the outset Sachin, before we got started, you and I could talk for hours on this subject. Sadly, we don't have hours. I'd like to thank you for joining us in theCube. I'd like to thank everyone for joining us for this Cube conversation, covering the events at Google Cloud NEXT 2021. I'm Dave Nicholson. Thanks for joining. (upbeat music)

>> (upbeat music) >> production: From around the globe, it's the Cube covering Google cloud Next on-Air 20. (Upbeat music) >> Welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman and this is the CUBE coverage of Google cloud Next on Air 20. Of course, the nine week distributed all online program that Google cloud is doing and going to be talking about, of course, multi-cloud, Google of course had a big piece in multi-cloud. When they took what was originally Borg, They built Kubernetes. They made that open source and gave that to the CNCF and one of Google's partners and a leader in that space is of course, Red Hat. Happy to welcome to the program Sathish Balakrishnan, he is the Vice President of hosted platforms at Red Hat. Sathish, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. It's great to be here with you on Google Cloud Native insights. >> Alright. So I, I tied it up, of course, you know, we talk about, you know, the hybrid multicloud and open, you know, two companies. I probably think of the most and that I've probably said the most about the open cloud are Google and Red Hat. So maybe if we could start just, uh, you hosted platforms, help us understand what that is. And, uh, what was the relationship between Red Hat and the Open Shift team and Google cloud? >> Absolutely. Great question. And I think Google has been an amazing partner for us. I think we have a lot of things going on with them upstream in the community. I think, you know, we've been with Google and the Kubernetes project since the beginning and you know, like the second biggest contributor to Kubernetes. So we have great relationships upstream. We also made Red Hat Enterprise Linux as well as Open Shift available on Google. So we have customers using both our offerings as well as our other offerings on Google cloud as well. And more recently with the hosted our offerings. You know, we actually manage Open Shift on multiple clouds. We relaunched our Open Shift dedicated offering on Google cloud back at Red Hat Summit. There's a lot of interest for the offering. We had back offered the offering in 2017 with Open Shift Three and we just relaunched this with Open Shift Four and we received considerable interest for the Google cloud Open Shift dedicated offering. >> Yeah, Sathish maybe it makes sense if we talk about kind of the maturation of open source solutions, managed services has seen really tremendous growth, something we've seen, especially if we were talking about in the cloud space. Maybe if you could just walk us through a little bit out that, you know, what are you hearing from customers? How does Red Hat think about managed solutions? >> Absolutely. Stu, I think it was a good question, right? I think, uh, as we say, the customers are looking at, you know, multiple infrastructure footprints, Be iteither the public cloud or on-prem. They'll start looking at, you know, if I go to the cloud, you know, there's this concept of, I want something to be managed. So what Open Shift is doing is in Open Shift, as you know it's Red Hat's hybrid cloud platform and with Open Shift, all the things that we strive to do is to enable the vision of the Open Hybrid Cloud. Uh, so, but Open Hybrid Cloud, it's all about choice, So we want to make sure the customers have both the managed as well as the self managed option. Uh, so if you really look at it, you know, Red Hat has multiple offerings from a managed standpoint. One as you know, we have Open Shift dedicated, which runs from AWS and Google. And, you know, we just have, as I mentioned earlier. We relaunched our Google service at Red Hat Summit back in May. So that's actually getting a lot of traction. We also have joint offerings with Azure that we announced a couple of years back and, there's a lot of interest for that offering as well as the new offering that we announced post-summit, the Amazon-Red Hat Open Shift, which basically is another native offering that we have on Amazon. If you really look at, having, having spoken about these offerings, if you really look at Red Hat's evolution as a managed service provider in the public cloud, we've been doing this since 2011. You know, that's kind of surprising for a lot of people, but you know, we've been doing Open Shift online, which is kind of a multi-tenant parcel multi-talent CaaS solution 2011. And we are one of the earliest providers of managed kubernetes, you know, along with Google Kubernetes engine GKE, we are our Open Shift dedicated offering back in 2015. So we've been doing Kubernetes managed since, Open Shift 3.1. So that's actually, you know, we have a lot of experience with management of Kubernetes and, you know, the devolution of Open Shift we've now made it available and pretty much all the clouds. So that customers have that exact same experience that they can get any one cloud across all clouds, as well as on-prem. Managed service customers now have a choice of a self managed Open Shift or completely managed Open Shift. >> Yeah. You mentioned the choice and one of the challenges we have right now is there's really the paradox of choice. If you look in the Kubernetes space, you know, there are dozens of offerings. Of course, every cloud provider has their offerings. You know, Google's got GKE, they have Anthos, uh, they, they have management tools around there. You, you talked a bit about the, you know, the experience and all the customers you have, the, you know, there's one of the fighters talks about, there's no compression algorithm for experience. So, you know, what is Red Hat Open Shift? What really differentiates in the market place from, you know, so many of the other offerings, either from the public high providers, some of the new startups, that we should know. >> Yeah. I think that's an interesting question, right? I think all Google traders start with it's complete open source and, you know, we are a complete open source company. So there is no proprietary software that we put into Open Shift. Open Shift, basically, even though it has, you know, OC command, it basically has CPR. So you can actually use native Google networks as you choose on any Google network offering that you have be it GKE, EKS or any of the other things that are out there. So that's why I think there are such things with google networks and providers and Red Hat does not believe in open provider. It completely believes in open source. We have everything that we is open source. From an it standpoint, the value prop for Red Hat has always been the value of the subscription, but we actually make sure that, you know, Google network is taken from an upstream product. It's basically completed productized and available for the enterprise to consume. But that right, when we have the managed offering, we provide a lot more benefits to it, right? The benefits are right. We actually have customer zero for Open Shift. So what does that mean? Right. We will not release Open Shift if we can't run open Shift dedicated or any of their (indistinct) out Open Shift for them is under that Open Shift. Really really well. So you won't get a software version out there. The second thing is we actually run a lot of workloads, but then Red Hat that are dependent on our managed or open shift off. So for example, our billing systems, all of those internal things that are important for Red Hat run on managed Open Shift, for example, managed Open Shift. So those are the important services for Red Hat and we have to make sure that those things are running really, really well. So we provide that second layer of enterprise today. Then having put Open Shift online, out that in public. We have 4 million applications and a million developers that use them. So that means, I've been putting it out there in the internet and, you know, there's security hosts that are constantly being booked that are being plugged in. So that's another benefit that you get from having a product that's a managed service, but it also is something that enterprises can now use it. From an Open Shift standpoint, the real difference is we add a lot of other things on top of google network without compromising the google network safety. That basically helps customers not have to worry about how they're going to get the CIC pipeline or how they have to do a bunch of in Cobra Net as an outside as the inside. Then you have technologies like Store Street Metrics kind of really help customers not to obstruct the way the containerization led from that. So those are some of the benefits that we provide with Open Shift. >> Yeah. So, so, so Sathish, as it's said, there's lots of options when it comes to Kubernetes, even from a Red Hat offering, you've got different competing models there. If I look inside your portfolio, if it's something that I want to put on my infrastructure, if I haven't read the Open Shift container platform, is that significantly different from the managed platform. Maybe give us a little compare contrast, you know. What do I have to do as a customer? Is the code base the same? Can I do, you know, hybrid environments between them and you know, what does that mean? >> It's a smart questions. It's a really, really good question that you asked. So we actually, you know, as I've said, we add a lot of things on top of google network to make it really fast, but do you want to use the cast, you can use the desktop. So one of the things we've found, but you know, what we've done with our managed offering is we actually take Open Shift container platform and we manage that. So we make sure that you get like a completely managed source, you know. They'll be managed, the patching of the worker nodes and other things, which is, again, another difference that we have with the native Cobra Net of services. We actually give plush that admin functionality to customers that basically allows them to choose all the options that they need from an Open Shift container platform. So from a core base, it's exactly the same thing. The only thing is, it's a little bit opinionated. It to start off when we deploy the cluster for the customer and then the customer, if they want, they can choose how to customize it. So what this really does is it takes away any of the challenges the customer may have with like how to install and provision a cluster, which we've already simplified a lot of the open shift, but with the managed the Open Shift, it's actually just a click of it. >> Great. Sathish Well, I've got the trillion dollar question for you. One of the things we've been looking at for years of course, is, you know, what do I keep in my data center? What do I move to the cloud? How do I modernize it? We understand it's a complex and nuanced solution, but you talk to a lot of customers. So I, you know, here in 2020, what's the trends? What are some of the pieces that you're seeing some change and movement that, you know, might not have been the case a year ago? >> I think, you know, this is an interesting question and it's an evolving question, right? And it's something that if you ask like 10 people you'll get real answers, but I'm trying to generalize what I've seen just from all the customer conversations I've been involved. I think one thing is very clear, right? I think that the world is right as much as anybody may want to say that I'm going to go to a single cloud or I'm going to just be on prem. It is inevitable that you're going to basically end up with multiple infrastructure footprint. It's either multicloud or it's on Prem versus a single cloud or on prem versus multiple cloud. So the main thing is that, we've been noticing as, what customers are saying in a whole. How do I make sure that my developers are not confused by all these difference than one? How do I give them a consistent way to develop and build their applications? Not really worry about, what is the infrastructure. What is the footprint that they're actually servicing? So that's kind of really, really important. And in terms of, you know, things that, you know, we've seen customers, you know, I think you always start with compliance requirements and data regulations. Back there you got to figure it out. What compliance do I need? And as the infrastructure or the platform that I'm going to go to meet the compliance requirements that I have, and what are the data regulations? You know, what is the data I'm going to be setting? Is it going to meet the data submitted rules that my country or my geo has? I got to make sure I worry about that. And then I got to figure out if I'm going to basically more to the cloud from the data center or from one cloud to another cloud. I might just be doing a lift or shift. Am I doing a transformation? What is it that I really worry about? In addition to the transformation, they got to figure it out, or I need to do that. Do I not need to do that? And then, you know, we've got to figure out what your data going to set? What your database going to look in? And do you need to connect to some legacy system that you have on prem? Or how do you go? How do you have to figure that out and give them all of these complexities? This is really, really common for any large enterprise that has like an enterprise ID for that multi-cloud. That's basically in multiple geographies, servicing millions of customers. So that has a lot of experience doing all these things. We have open innovation labs, which are really, really awesome experience for customers. Whether they take a small project, they figured out how to change things. Not only learn how to change things from a technology standpoint, but also learn how to culturally change things, because a lot of these things. So it's not just moving from one infrastructure to another, but also learning how to do things differently. Then we have things like the container adoption programmer, which is like, how do you take a big legacy monolith application? How do you containerize it? How do you make it micro services? How do you make sure that you're leveraging the real benefits that you're going to get out of moving to the cloud or moving to a container platform? And then we have a bunch of other things like, how do you get started with Open Shift and all of that? So we've had a lot of experience with like our 2,400 plus customers doing this kind of really heavy workload migration and lifting. So the customers really get the benefits that they see out of Open Shift. >> Yeah. So Sathish, if I think about Google, specifically talking about Google cloud, one of the main reasons we hear customers using Google is to have access to the data services. They have the AI services they have. So how does that tie into what we were just talking about? If I, if I use Open Shift and you know. I'm living in Google cloud, can, can I access all of those cloud native services? Are there any nuances things I need to think about to be able to really unleash that innovation of the platform that I'm tying into? >> Yeah, absolutely not. Right. I think it's a great question. And I think customers are always wondering about. Hey, if I use Open Shift, am I going to be locked out of using the cloud services? And if anything run out as antilock. We want to make sure that you can use the best services that you need for your enterprise, like the strategy as well as for applications. So with that, right. And we've developed the operator framework, which I think Google has been a very early supporter of. They've built a lot of operators around their services. So you can develop those operators to monitor the life cycle of these services, right from Open Shift. So you can actually connect to an AI service if you want. That's absolutely fine. You can connect the database services as well. And you can leverage all of those things while your application runs on Open Shift from Google cloud. Also I think that done us right. We recognize that, when you're talking about the open hybrid cloud, you got to make sure that customers can actually leverage services that are the same across different clouds. So when you can actually leverage the Google services from On Prem as well, if you choose to have localized services. We have a large catalog of operators that we have in our operator hub, as well as in the Red Hat marketplace that you can actually go and leverage from third party, third party ISV, so that you're basically having the same consistent experience if you choose to. But based on the consistent experience, that's not tied to a cloud. You can do that as well. But we would like for customers to use any service that they want, right from Open Shift without any restrictions. >> Yeah. One of the other things we've heard a lot from Google over the last year or so has been, you know, just helping customers, especially for those mission, critical business, critical applications, things like SAP. You talked a bit about databases. What advice would you give customers these days? They're, they're looking at, you know, increasing or moving forward in their cloud journeys. >> I think it sounds as an interesting question because I think customers really have to look at, you know, what is the ID and technology strategy? What are the different initiatives to have? Is it digital transformation? Is it cloud native development? Is it just containerization or they have an overarching theme over? They've got to really figure that out and I'm sure they're looking at it. They know which one is the higher priority when all of them are interrelated and in some ways. They also got to figure out how they going to expand to new business. Because I think as we said, right, ID is basically what is driving personal software is eating the load. Software services are editing them. So you got to figure out, what are your business needs? Do you need to be more agile? Do you need to enter new businesses? You know, those are kind of important things. For example, BMW is a great example, they use Open Shift container platform as well as they use Open Shift dedicated, you know. They are like a hundred hundred plus year old car, guess, you know what they're trying to do. They're actually now becoming connected car infrastructure. That's the main thing that they're trying to build so that they can actually service the cars in any job. So in one shoe, they came from a car manufacturing company to now focus on being a SAS, an Edge and IOT company. If you really look at the cars as like the internet of things on an edge computer and what does that use case require? That use case cannot anymore have just one data center in Munich, they have to basically build a global platform of data centers or they can really easily go to the cloud. And then they need to make sure that that application double close when they're starting to run on multiple clouds, multiple geographies, they have the same abstraction layer so that they can actually apply things fast. Develop fast. They don't have to worry about the infrastructure frequently. And that's basically why they started using Open Shift. And don't know why they're big supporters of Open Shift. And then I think it's the right mission for their use. So I think it really depends on, you know, what the customer is looking for, but irrespective of what they're looking for, I think Open Shift nicely fits in because what it does, is it provides you that commonality across all infrastructure footprints. It gives you all the productivity gains and it allows you to connect to any service that you want anywhere because we are agnostic to that and as well as we bring a whole lot of services from Red Hat marketplace so you can actually leverage your status. >> Well, Sathish Balakrishnan, thank you so much for the updates. Great to hear about the progress you've got with your customers. And thank you for joining us on the Google cloud Next On Air Event. >> Thank you Stu. It's been great talking to you and look forward to seeing you in person one day. >> Alright. I'm Stu Miniman. And thank you as always for watching the Cube. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE covering Google Cloud Next OnAir '20. >> Hi everybody, welcome back. This is Dave Vellante and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of Google Next OnAir, nine weeks of cloud content. There was just a buffet of content. It started out with sort of industry trends, we got into productivity, infrastructure, deep dive in security analytics, database, app modernization, cloud AI and we're wrapping up the nine weeks with Business Application Platform. And with me is Amit Zavery, who's the general manager and vice president of the Business Application Platform at Google cloud. Amit, always a pleasure. Thanks for coming on. >> Definitely, Thanks for having me Dave. You're welcome. So tell me more about this role and kind of your swim lane, if you will. >> Definitely. I think as you can imagine with especially all this digital transformation getting accelerated due to COVID, that's a huge amount of demand and interest from customers to be able to build applications, integrate them and modernize systems and automate all of them very quickly and easily in a cost effective manner. So that has been driving a lot of the thinking at Google for quite a few of years already. But I think that a little more accelerated with some of the work we've been doing previously with our stack around API management, no code app development, automation capabilities in our platform as well and we're bringing a lot of these things together in an offering so that customers can take advantage of a lot of the innovation in this space and improve the digital transformation and innovate quickly as well. So that's what we've done with Business Application Platform. We're providing capabilities for any kind of developers, be it the technical user who has a lot of programming experience as well as the other spectrum, which are the system developers who don't really have any kind of a software engineering background, but want be able to build applications and automate and there're processes very quickly and easily. So we want to provide them all the tooling and capabilities so that they can do that and be more effective than they would otherwise be. >> I want to ask you about digital transformation. I mean, obviously it's a word that's thrown around, a phrase that's thrown around a lot and there's a spectrum of what it means to people. I was talking to somebody the other day, and this obviously will resonate with you, with your background in enterprise apps but they were talking about an ERP system that was put in 15 years ago before Iphone, before cloud and it just says you know those systems are fossilized and the business has changed dramatically but the ERP system hasn't. To them, digital transformation was basically upgrading the system. And so, but obviously to Google and your role, it means something much different, doesn't it? >> I saw a lot more, right? I think no doubt having a digital application. No doubt is important, it's a good starting point. But you said some of the systems are pretty old and they're not connected together between different parts of the business. And this is huge amount of manual processes. and there's a lot of, I would say disparate pieces which never come together if you don't really put a well thought out digital transformation project or intimidation around it. So a lot of times all these businesses, when they're connecting things together, they do need a platform to kind of bring their business processes, their workflows, their applications, and the interaction between different users, be it external and internal into a more automated system. And that's really where digital transformation really shines and improves a lot of the ability for customers to compete as well as meet their customer demands and be more effective than otherwise they would be. >> And cloud is critical there but it's connecting to an ecosystem. So I want to ask you about your strategy of the Business Application Platform. And of course, Google is known for great tech. It's very open, a lot of downstream contributions, you think about Kubernetes and Anthos. So how would you describe your group strategy and how does it dovetail with Google cloud overall? >> Yeah no doubt, I think the cloud is kind of the central team underneath the covers, right? So it does run on a multicloud and hybrid mechanism. So that is available anywhere as well as you have choice of and flexibility of deployment. It's also a platform on top of Anthos so you have the advantage of multicloud as well as support for all the different systems. You might have both on-prem as well as in various other cloud providers as well. And the other things we are doing is we're taking advantage a lot of the AIML capabilities, a lot of our data analytics capabilities and bringing a lot of those underlying technologies and extracting it out to a SaaS based offering on Business Application Platform. So the customer's perspective, they want to build an application, They use, we recently acquired a company called AppSheet at the start of this year. So they can easily now use AppSheet to build those applications without writing a single line of code. And then if you create that application, it provides connectivity to also a lot of other systems out there be it applications like SAP, salesforce.com. But also a lot of legacy systems in house or custom systems you might have built and put connectors to that. And then allows you to now monetize and take systems and provide API so then you can now extend it and bring it out into the partner community, as well as customers to be able to build applications around that as well. So it connects all those things together, takes advantage of the Google cloud and the ecosystem we have built and provides customers and users a much easier way to kind of build and deliver applications and automation on it. >> Okay, so that makes sense in terms of why you acquired, made that acquisition. But I want to talk about no code development. It's something that you've been talking about quite a bit lately. Tell the audience, what is no code development? Why do we need it? >> Yeah, I think if you look at some of these report nowadays, there's a limited amount of capacity and capabilities IT can provide. And for complicated and very large systems, you of course need IT to kind of make your business efficient and implement a lot of the systems together. But there a lot of other applications which departments and line of business users want to use and build and they can't wait around for IT. And there, I think you look at some of the reports from Gartner, for example, they're going to be four times more developers outside IT than they are going to be in IT. And those folks are not going to be software engineers, they're not professional programmers but still they need efficiency and automation and application development tools. This is where no code really brings a lot of value. So tools like AppSheet, which we acquired, as market leading no code development platform makes it very easy for anybody without any experience writing any code and building applications. They can point click and start building an application and be effectively produce something which they can collaborate and use between different users inside the company or outside without spending a lot of money and time to deliver that. And that's why the no-code application platforms are becoming very popular because it does make your business more efficient, makes your business more automated, it's cost effective and it's very productive, right? So that has been the trend now more and more, and we speak a lot of, especially nowadays, if you look at telehealth, you look at say, if you want to do mortgage lending, you want to build an app easily quickly without having to wait around for it. You are interacting with a lot of people through digital mediums now and instead of people using a lot of digital tools. And that's why I think there's no-code a platforms become much more important, powerful and usable in this mechanism as well. >> Okay, I think it's important to point out. We're talking about no-code here, not low-code, no-code, there's a difference. >> There's a big difference. I think the low-code was kind of the interim stage where tools, which are coming out into the market were available to make it a little easier for development but not enough to kind of democratize it for everybody. With no-code, you are now allowing and opening it up to a lot more vaster community of users who can multiple build applications and take advantage of a lot of technology innovation happening in the platform like cloud and other things as well. Media reporting is another good example where you want to be able to build dashboards quickly and easily without again writing codes. So the no-code becomes a lot more important and usable for this kind of needs. >> So I wonder if we could stay on this for a minute. You've used the example of programming a VCR, many of us remember how difficult that was early on and now it's just you talk to it and it works. You used that as an example of what no code is like. Can you explain that a little bit more? >> I think, basically it should be natural, right? I think when we used to program a VCR, you'd read some manuals, you'd read some code, you have to kind of go through the whole process. I don't even know how many of our audience nowadays even know about that or even think about it anymore. makes us all very dated. But it was a very cumbersome process and then you would worry about whether you recorded it or not, and that you got it on the right time and did you get the right show? And then you'd up deleting the wrong things or whatever it may be the case. A Lot of those things are now getting extracted and simpler in terms of the no-code development where if you are looking for a particular application interface, if you're looking to build say a mortgage lending app, a lot of those building blocks are already available to you. You kind of making it specific to your need, but really using a lot of the building blocks and get you the final solution versus learning about wiring, everything yourself with a lot of pieces of code in there, right? So that's becoming a straightforward. We have customers like Solvay, for example, which is a large chemical automation company. And they are being able to build multiple applications with 400 plus users inside the company and deliver a lot more automation inside the organization than they would otherwise be. >> So you kind of touched on this with the different modules and capabilities and functions within an organization. But when I think about that VCR analogy, I mean, it's doing one thing and that's pretty simple. How does that apply? And again, you kind of touched on it, but it seems like IT is much or business is much more complicated but so this actually works? >> Yeah I think it's a works. We provide a lot of our kind of templates and system examples in the no-code tooling, as well as the a lot of complexity, which is built underneath the cover which is completely hidden from the user perspective, right? So when I'm building an application, I'm still getting the power of the cloud, I'm getting the power of our underlying platform, the scalability, reliability, the security, the integration, all that kind of stuff is brought into this tooling without you having to learn any of those things. And that really is where the power comes in and it's flexible enough that you can kind of pretty much do any kind of application deployment. I will not build a full blown eCommerce site with it, but I can do a lot of typical day to day kind of applications like vacation approval or things you might want to do for mortgage lending, understanding a telehealth app for doctors. And so we're seeing a lot of the, we had customers who were doing this for hospital bed tracking during the COVID current crisis going on, right? Where they want to know what kind of PPE is available? How many beds are empty? So tracking that at the hospital level, at the health care departments, all that kind of stuff we're done very quickly and powerfully than they otherwise would have. >> Is there a concern amongst your customers about privacy, governance, compliance, security with all these citizen developers? How do you ensure that those fundamental edicts of the organization are preserved? >> Yeah, I think this is a similar thing than any other system we will make available to our customers in the cloud. We guarantee that all the data is only available to the people who are allowed to based on the privileges and the security profiles and everything else. So there's no really any kind of fear from the system perspective that you will get access to something which you're not allowed to. You do log in, you do have to have an account, you do have to have all the relevant credentials before you get access to it. Same thing with privacy. We make sure that nothing is shared with anybody who's not allowed to. So we apply the same tenant, same kind of rules to any kind of data or information we keep in the cloud for any other application development. All we're doing is abstracting it out and making it easier so that everybody who wants to build things don't have to learn 20 other things to kind of get going. So the ability to do this in faster and quickly is there but all the underlying philosophy and principles still remain intact into our products as well. >> Right, makes sense. You guys obviously you have this API first mentality. I've heard about things like API gateway, Apogee, data capabilities, automating AppSheets. Can you bring us up to date on some of those innovations? >> You will see a lot of updates in this area. So we've been innovating very aggressively. Of course, we have a product called Apogee which is a market leading API management product in the industry today. It does the full life cycle of APIs, including testing, development, publishing, monetization, security, all that kind of stuff for API. And we have thousands of customers using it today. Beyond that, what we've done is we've added a lot of ability from that Stack to kind of expose APIs and consume them through AppSheet. So we have an API data source for AppSheet. So it's easy for you to find APIs and build an app is one. Second, we also released something called API gateway, which is a very high performance, low latency cloud native gateway running on serverless. So a lot of applications are built on serverless platform nowadays. And if you want to now manage that to an API layer, we provide a gateway on top of Google cloud. So anybody can also use it very quickly and easily as well. So that's another area which we added. And the third thing which we are announcing is something called actually AppSheet automation. So as I talked about AppSheet for app development, we're also now adding a lot of workflow and business process automation underneath the covers as part of AppSheet. That's something we're making available to our customers so they can automate a business process and connect things together very quickly but also get the value of the automation in their application as well. So those are new innovations, new releases we're adding to our platform as part of business application offering so that anybody can take advantage of it. >> I mean, I love this trend because to the extent you've been able, I mean, this is the Holy grail. If you can enable business users, they're closer obviously to what's going on, closer to the customer and they can respond much more quickly. Are you seeing, for instance a user builds an app using an AppSheet, are you seeing because of the API richness, are you seeing other innovation around those occurring? Are we at that point yet? Or are they still kind of islands of- >> No, i think The scope of usage is growing very fast, right? We have more than 400,000 users on AppSheet are building applications. Thousands of thousands of applications been built on it, millions of users kind of using it at the end from the logging in and using those applications as well. So I think the innovation is happening very fast, where they're connecting different things, as well as now building an ecosystem, even in Solvay as example, I was giving you. The multiple apps are built by multiple departments, and they're kind of bringing those ecosystem together into a reuse, be able to kind of find new use cases around it, those kinds of things as well. >> Are organization's coming back to say, hey, we love this? But remember when we first started spinning up VMs, it was so easy. Are you seeing organizations say, hey, we need better line of sight on it. It could be in a catalog of what we're doing or marketplace. Are you seeing demand for that? >> Yeah, so we seeing a lot. I think there's a lot of reuse. Like we have partners who also build a build applications and put that into our marketplace as well and then we're also seeing a lot of interest from solution providers who build applications on top of what you might have as modules and deliver to our end customers as well. So now there's a lot of interest in that regards and there's a lot of good examples coming out and we're seeing a lot of ways of bringing some of these things together as well. >> I mean, how does machine intelligence, AI, how does it fit into your whole agenda and strategy? And what does it mean for a customer? >> Yeah, I think as you know, Google has been innovating and has been one of the top AIML vendor out in the marketplace today. And we have definitely taken a lot of advantage of that innovation and experience in that. So for example, when I talked about automation, a lot of the automation in AppSheet is being done using AIML technologies Google has built in terms of predicting the way the customer is going to use the application, how they're going to be able to take a business process and connect them together. A lot of that things have been built using AIML technologies at Google cloud. Beyond that on API management for our operational dashboards and operational monitoring. So make sure that we can give you five nines of availability. We kind of really use lot of AIML technologies to understand anomalies, figure out where the issues might be and predict those things and make sure that we kind of fixing those things in advance before things go down, right? Same thing in security, abuse, usage, make any kind of DDoS kind of things or whatever may be the security issues as well. We use a lot of AIML capabilities to make sure we're monitoring and securing our systems as well. So we're in the middle of everything. >> Right. Has the pandemic, you know, the last 150 days, obviously it's changed things and we've talked about digital transformation being accelerated. How are you thinking about sort of the go forward as a result of the post isolation era? >> Yeah, I think this is probably going to be... I don't think this is good. Once we get out of the COVID situation whenever that happens, some of the way we work and where we operate will definitely change than what it used to be pretty much in a way. So I do expect a lot more of video conferencing, for example I do expect a lot of digitalization. I do expect a lot of automation requirements, everybody trying to be more efficient and sharing things and working remotely. Those kinds of things will continue as a trend. So from our perspective, the work we're doing around API management, around digitalization, around digital transformation, around AppSheet automation, all those things are probably right things for the right kind of future where these technologies and tech offerings we do in Google cloud as well as other things we are doing broadly will make a big difference for everyone. >> Yeah recently, I want to kind of end just to get your industry perspectives. Recently, I wrote a piece that a video just on the enterprise app space, kind of the systems of record. And, you know, these are entrenched companies and even you see some of the new SaaS startups, but they're large companies and done very well. I was trying to sort of noodle on where does the potential of disruption come? Where's the new innovation? And I think some of the things that we're talking about here, this no-code, cloud. I mean, obviously you guys play in the application space but it seems like a part of your strategy is to enable developers to really build new types of applications. And maybe that's where the next wave of disruption comes, perhaps in vertical industries, perhaps with this no code. What are your thoughts on that? >> I know, you're right. I think the productivity in the collaboration space, no doubt is going through a huge transformation and change. I mean, Google being in the forefront of it with G Suite. If you look at some of the numbers and the metrics in terms of video conferencing and this collaboration in general has been going through the roof in terms of usage. AppSheet combination with that, for example, right? So if you're building an application, you're doing video conferencing, I might be able to build a telehealth app very quickly and easily. So that's where the no-code and collaboration, for example and productivity becomes part that story. Similarly, as you said, the industry solutions where you probably heard some of the innovation we're doing in that area by specific industry with business processes. Again, adding an API layer underneath the covers to connect different systems together, and then publishing that to an application through AppSheet becomes, again, a very much a great thought out solution and very easy to kind of provide that to our customers as well. So changes in productivity and collaboration, changes in no code app development, having a platform to connect all these things and make it easy to adopt is really a big part of our story as we move forward. And that's the reason why we're kind of increasing our investment in the Business Application Platform and just kind of pour to a lot of things we're doing. We did an acquisition on Looker, for example, for business intelligence. And that's an important part as part of business application platform, to be able to provide intelligence to what people are doing, what data you have to be able to do self service reporting, and then publish that to on a dashboard as well, which might be created through AppSheet or custom doesn't matter. But we provide you that whole end to end onto it. And then technology like Anthos ties it together to give you multicloud as well as a hybrid kind of delivery mechanism. So you have flexibility of choice how you deliver and run those systems. >> Yeah, I love that Looker example for sure. We're basically seeing the democratization of business apps. Amit, thanks so much for coming back in theCUBE. It's great to see you. Hopefully sometime soon we can see each other face to face. >> Yeah. I look forward to it and thank you again for having me. >> And thank you for watching our continuous coverage on theCUBE with Google's Next OnAir nine weeks of coverage. Keep it right there. Be right back after this short break. (upbeat music)

>>From around the globe covering Google cloud. Next on there. >>Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is the cube coverage of Google cloud. Next 20 on air it's week seven of nine. Google of course took their event that was supposed to be in person and Moscone, spread it out online. It's all available on demand. Every Tuesday they've been dropping it in the cube. We've got a great lineup that we're going to share with you of our coverage thought event. This is our analysis segment, joining me to help dig into where Google cloud is. Everything happening in the ecosystem. Having to bring in Dave Alante and John furrier, our co-founders co-CEOs and, uh, always hosts of the program, John and Dave. Uh, it was, uh, it was great last year being in the middle of the show floor, uh, with the whole team and the great glam beautiful booth that Google built well, we're remote, but we're still in the middle of all the topics, the big waves and everything like that. So thanks so much for joining me and look forward to digging into it. >>Hey Stu, great to see you remotely. We got to get these events back. His virtual events are nine weeks, three weeks for Ws all day events. DockerCon virtual orders, nobody ecosystem support. I mean, this is really an interesting time and I think Google has laid out an interesting experiment with their multi. I call it summer of cloud program nine weeks with just a sustained demand for your attention. It's going to been a challenge. >>The question always, John, can they keep their attention? John, you laid out, you know, the cube three 65 were, there is 365 days a year, help extract the signal from the noise, help engage with the community. So absolutely want to kind of peel back the onion and see what we think of the event. But let let's, let's start with Google. Dave, you know, you've been digging through the numbers as you always do. Uh, we're we're more than a year since Thomas Kurian came in and you know, what are you hearing? What's the data showing you as to, you know, where Google really sits in the marketplace? How are they doing >>Well still you're right. I mean, Thomas curious now I think he's about 18 months in and in one of my previous breaking analysis, I kind of laid out a four point plan for, for Google. And we can talk about sort of how they're doing there, but, but really the first one is product maturity and there's, there's a number of things that we can assess as it relates to product maturity. The second we talk about it all the time is, is, is go to market. I think the third one is really around differentiation. How does Google uniquely differentiate from the other cloud service providers? And I think the fourth and we saw this earlier this year with Looker is, you know, Google's got a war chest and you know, they can use that to really beef up the cloud. And I think if, if, if you, if you look at it, you know, Google's done a pretty good job with things like fed ramp. >>I mean, these are table stakes in the big cloud. You know, they're starting to do more things around SAP of VMware, uh, windows. I mean, again, these are basic things that you have to do as part of any large cloud provider. I think the other thing we talked about go to market, they've done a number of things there. Karen's really focused on partnerships. He wants to be a hundred percent channel, uh, at the same time they're hiring salespeople. I think they're up over 1500 salespeople right now, uh, which is, you know, we're getting there. I think it was less than that. Obviously when he came on, that's kind of the benchmark, although we don't really know exactly what, what the numbers are. They've kind of launched into public sector. They see what's happening with Amazon there, they see great opportunities. They see, you know, what, what Microsoft is doing. And so public sector, they have to put out bakeoffs so you gotta be in there and at differentiations still a lot of, okay, how can we leverage alphabet our search business and retail, our business and healthcare, um, and edge things like autonomous vehicles. There's, there's some opportunities there. And then as I said, they're doing some M and a two plus billion dollars for Looker, you know, great capability. So I think they're, they're executing on those four and we can talk about what that means in terms of, you know, revenue and position in the market. >>Well, yeah, Dave, maybe it makes sense to let let's, let's walk through the revenue, just so that people understand, you know, where they sit for the longest time it's been, you know, the number three or the number four where Alibaba said, uh, compared to them, but they are still far behind, uh, AWS and Azure. Uh, and have they been closing the gap at all? >>Well, if guys, if you could bring up that chart, that first one, uh, this is are, we really are estimates. You remember now AWS, every quarter gives us a clean number for their infrastructure as a service. And what we've got here is an estimate for full year 2018, 2019 that's calendar year, the growth rates, and then, uh, with a trailing 12 month view. And I think there's a couple of points here. One is you can see the growth. Google grew 89% last year. They were 70% in Q one 59% in Q two. So, so even though it's somewhat declining, they're growing faster than both Azure and AWS, of course, from a smaller base. I think the other thing, if you, if you go back and look at 2019, relative to AWS, Google was one 10th, the size of AWS. Now they're, you know, there's only eight X, so they're starting to close that gap, but still very much a, a quite a distance from the leaders. >>Yeah. Uh, John, maybe if we look at Google under Thomas Currian, of course there's been a real, uh, growth in hiring. So, you know, you're there in the Valley, John, we know lots of really smart people that have joined Google's great enterprise, uh, you know, pedigrees there as well as the ecosystem, uh, that, that wants to be able to partner with Google. You know, what are you seeing? What are you hearing? I like one of the interviews that you did, uh Suneel prody, uh, it was, it was the number two over at Nutanix. Uh, and now we've got an important role in Google cloud, >>Google hiring great people. I got to say, one of the things I'm impressed with is I've always liked the product people. They have great product chops. I'll ask the Google has come from a position of strength on the tech side being Google. Um, and, but the enterprise business is hard too, and they got to hire more enterprise DNA. They're trying to do that at the same time. They're trying to make the table stakes stuff done, move fast during the product side. And then at the same time, create the game changing product with like ant those for instance, um, and then have all those new features. So they're running as fast as they can. Um, they're building product as fast as they can. So you got, you know, developer and operator efficiency, which I love the strategy. However, when you run that fast, there's definitely debt. >>You take on both technical and market debt around trying to make a shortcut. So Google to me, the word in the Valley is great stuff with the people. Product is awesome, getting better, good product people, but still those enterprise features product reliability in terms of not sunsetting products early to, you know, making sure the right support levels are there. These are like the little details that make the difference between an enterprise player and someone who is essentially, you know, moving too fast, get new products being to agile. So yeah, it's a double edged sword for Google. We've said this all the time, but overall I'd give them a solid number three position and still haven't seen the breakout yet. I think ant those can be that if they keep pushing on this operator efficiency, but I just don't think the enterprise is ready for Google yet. And I think there's issues there. >>Yeah. John, you bring up a great point. I know the last couple of times we've been at the show, I feel like I'm scratching my head. It was like, wait, when did lift and shift become sexy? Yes, you want to meet the enterprises where they are, but how is that different from the message that we hear from Microsoft that we hear from AWS? Uh, one of the bigger announcements during the infrastructure week, uh, was about a new program, the rapid assessment and migration plan or ramp, uh, to help customers get from where they are, where they need to be. Uh, it's interesting because of course, if you, you know, for reinvent for years, we had all the systems integrators, helping customers move and migrate, uh, both AWS and Azure have lots of migration solutions out there. So, you know, how will Google differentiate themselves and make different there? >>Well, they don't, they don't really know. I mean, they have put stuff down on paper, but here's the problem that Google has to overcome to make it a truly a fast growing cloud player. They got to nail the product features that they need to be in the marketplace. And the ecosystem really wants to work with Google. I see retail is lay up for them and they're doubling down on that. They've got smart people working on this, but the ecosystem and adding product features are two major heavy lifts ecosystems about moneymaking. At the end of the day. I know that sounds kind of greedy in this era of empathy and missions and values, but at the end of the day, if you're not making your ecosystem money, which means keep products around support for a certain number of >>Years and have incentives economically for people to build software. They're not going to work on your platform. And I think Google needs to understand that. Clearly. I just don't see it. I mean, I just don't see people saying, I love Google so much. I'm making so much cash and success. Um, and they got some good products. You know, I, like I said, products on ecosystem are things they're going to ratchet up super fast. Well, there's a couple of places, a couple of partners they violated, like I said, durian wants to be a hundred percent channel-based channel fulfillment. And when you talk to the channel, they do tell you, yo Google there they're being aggressive. Deloitte, you know, they chart chart out as a big partner HCL. Now of course, those guys are all working with everybody, but they're starting to put resources around that in terms of training and certification. >>And of course, other, you know, much smaller resellers and partners. So that's, that's interesting, right? That being really super channel friendly, that's a differentiator to your point, John, that's making be do that because they're not coming from a position of strength channel. No, they are channel friendly. Can, you can say you're channel friendly, but if your product doesn't work, the channel will reject you instantly. They're, they're a, they're a tough critic and they need to have reliability. So again, this is not really a problem with Google. It's just a product is evolving fast at the same time, they're trying to roll out a channel. So if you want to have a good rental strategy, you gotta have a good one posture and programs, but the product has to be enabling and reliable. And if someone's building software on top of a cloud platform and stuff doesn't work or changes, that's more cost more cost means more training, more hiring. >>If someone leaves, how does it scale? These are like really important things around channel. Cause they have to sell to the customer and support their name's on the line. So again, channels and easy to say thing to do, but to actually do it with a product is hard. And I think Google has that challenge. And again, it's a challenge that they overcome. It will be a great opportunity. Well, and I think that's a good point because it wasn't, it was 2019 when I was like VMware SAP, full blown windows support. I mean, that's, that's really late to the game. And so as I say, product maturity is critical, but there are some, some winners there obviously in analytics, uh, I think big query as get, gets very, very high marks. So there's, there's some real pockets of, of, of positive positivity there. But you know, I would agree though, the maturity is a key factor for the channel to really go on. >>Well, right. If you look, John, you mentioned anthro Santos was the story last year. Uh, and it's, we're all talking about multicloud. Uh, much of the multi-cloud discussion has been, uh, due to Kubernetes. And if it wasn't for Google, we wouldn't have Kubernetes. The concern of course, is that Google took it, it open source. The CNCF took it as a foundation and customers went nuts with it and the other public cloud and even, you know, smaller cloud providers are getting as if not more value than Google is. So what you hear in the back channels, when you say, boy, Google brought this technology out district really help enable their platform. Well, AWS is still winning. AWS has plenty of solutions. They've got interesting things to get, you know, deep solutions, leveraging Kubernetes. Uh, and if you look at Google, they announced anthros last year, it's gone through some updates this year. >>Uh, you know, you both mentioned, uh, working with the partners. One of the things that jumped out at me, uh, there's now something called ant those attached clusters, which means that if I have somebody else's, you know, Kubernetes that is fully certified, I can, I can plug that in and work with Anthem. It was one of the gaps that I saw last year. You hear Google saying, we're partnering with VMware, we're partnering pivotal, but here's. And if you want to use OpenShift or PKS, you know, you need to come over to work with Anthem here. We are understanding that customers are going to have multiple environments and often multiple different Kubernetes solutions out there. Uh, you know, Dave, you mentioned like VMware, of course is a really important solution. VMware moving along and supporting more Kubernetes. Uh, and the, the update for the solution is the Google cloud VMware engine. >>And absolutely the number one use case they talked about is take your VMs, get them in the cloud and then start using those data and analytic services that are in the public cloud. So we're seeing some maturity here, but you know, Dave, if we look at the multicloud market, you know, it, Google's not the first company that typically comes to mind, you know, VMware, red hat, even Microsoft probably are a little bit higher on people's thoughts. You know, what have you been seeing? It's an area we've been spending a lot of time last couple of years hybrid and multicloud. >>Well, we have some data on this guys, if you would pull up that next graphic and this, this is observing data from our data partner ETR and what this shows on the vertical axis is the spending momentum. So are you spending more or less? And then it's really a net score, which in other words, to subtract the less from the morning when we have leftover that's, the vertical axis high is higher, is better. And then the horizontal axis is markets, bear really presence in the data set, and you can see the hyperscaler guys, you know, that's where you want to be Microsoft AWS. They're always sort of separating from the pack. You'd love to see Google. Is there a hyperscaler out there with those guys, but they're not one of the interesting things that we're seeing in the dataset Stu and John VMware cloud on AWS has really popped up. >>So this thing of this notion of hybrid as part of the cloud ecosystem and multi-cloud is really starting to have legs. And you can also see red hat with, with open shift and believe it or not even OpenStack as a telco, you see in that pop up as well as VMware cloud, which is comprises cloud foundation and other components. So you see that hybrid and multicloud zone. And I think, I think you got to put Google, you know, right there, you can see where IBM and Oracle are for just for context, they don't have the momentum, they don't have the market presence in cloud, but they have a cloud. So that's kind of how the landscape is. And I think Google, from a standpoint of ant dos, they, again, they have to be trying to be open, leverage their Coopernetties chops and try to differentiate from certainly AWS. I think your point is right on, I think Microsoft has a pretty strong story there, but Google's got a clean story and they're investing and I think it's a good position for them. Not as, not as good as the other two, but you're when you're coming from behind, you have to try to differentiate and they are. >>Yeah, well, Dave, you've always said the rich get richer when these markets, but now with COVID that they are getting richer. Amazon honestly, stock I'm billion trillion, $2 billion valuation for Apple Google on the cloud side. This is, I think that if they had more product leadership in certain areas, I think they'd be doing more, more with their cloud, but they have some IP that could come out of this post COVID growth strategy for them, where it could be a game changer. So if you look at security and you look at identity, and one of the things that caught my attention in the anthesis announcement was this, uh, this, uh, identity service that they have, which is like, uh, open ID kind of connect thing. Identity will be critical because Google has so much IP around, um, you know, um, user login information around the mobile on the mobile side. >>I mean, Jennifer Lynn on this many times that they could leverage that and really helped the edge secure. And from a user access standpoint, having identification in the Anthem would be great. And this whole modern application trend is kind of where the puck is going. So you're there kind of skating to that puck area. And also they're focused on operators. This multicloud thing hits a home run with operators, because if you can create an abstraction layer between multiple clouds and have this modern kind of top layer to it, you're in a good position, but the insiders here in Silicon Valley and in the industry that I talked, they were all saying that Google has huge IP in their network. They have a very solid network. So what's interesting to me, as a Google can take leverage some of those network pain points and then bring anthesis that connective tissue. They got a real opportunity, but they've got to pull it off, right? So covert hitting, probably the worst thing that could have happened to Google because they were just a couple feet from the goal line on this, on this market in terms of really exploding. But I think they're well positioned. I'm not down on Google at all. >>I think that, you know, I'm glad you brought that up, John, because I think Cove was a two edged sword for them. I just published last week in my breaking analysis this weekend, actually that there were three big tailwinds insecurity as a result of coal go away. And identity was one of those cloud of course, was, was the other one. And then endpoint security was the third. And so that's a, that's, that's a, you know, kind of good news for, for, for identity. The flip side of it is if you go back and look at where Amazon and Microsoft were in terms of their growth, relative to where Google is now, Amazon and Microsoft appear to have been growing larger. Now these things go in an S curve, you know, it's kind of an old guy that starts out slow and then gets really steep. So we may actually see Google accelerate. Uh, but >>I think you wait in that it may have to wait until after COVID. So it's really a Jewish store, good news on the identity side. And Google's well positioned, but necessarily bad news from a growth standpoint. Well, there's three areas to that. You know, you and I have been riffing on lately and we've, haven't published a lot yet because we're going to wait until we have our event cube con event in October. But there's three areas, I think ant those points too. And they even say this kind of in their own way, um, multicloud, which is customers, connecting customers anywhere and finding device and whatnot. So customer connection points, customer enterprises, improved developer, modernized developer, the developer market, and then three operators, three areas that are all moving trains. They're all shifting under their feet. So I think they're doing great on developer side because they have great traction. >>We've covered that with coop con and other areas have done amazing work operator efficiency, no problem. I think they got a lot of great credit there and are building and adding new stuff. It's the customer piece that's weak. They, I think they really got to continue to double down on what is the customer deployment, because let's face it, enterprise customers aren't as savvy as Google or the hyperscaler. So when you roll into main street enterprise, especially with Cova Dave, as you pointed out, are they sitting there really grokking Coobernetti's on bare metal? And at those they're like, shit, how do I keep my network alive? So it, I just think isn't a long yet operationally on the customer side. And I think that is a weakness, um, and on Google's formula and they got to just make that easier. >>Yeah, no, no great, great points there. Absolutely. In, in talking to a lot of the cloud customers, if they already have an existing relationship that's expanding or accelerating, that is a lot easier than choosing a new environment. So as Dave said, the rich get richer. Um, I mentioned that at, at the start, this is week seven of nine of what Google is doing. Um, we want to get both your, your viewpoints on this event, how they laid it out nine weeks, it's all done on demand. I know when they had the opening keynote, there was a decent rally point. You saw the usual Twitter stream out there. They had a nice median analyst program that kicked off at the beginning. For me personally, there's been some stuff that I've gone back infrastructure week. I watch this week for app modernization. There's definitely some announcements that I'm digging into, but I think overall what I see out there is people rallied at the beginning and then they kind of forgot that the event was going on. Um, you know, what are you seeing? You know, what, what's the new best practice on, you know, how long should an event be? How do you deliver it? How do you get engagement? >>Well, I mean, just to, you know, Tim, Dave will weigh in, but I'm pretty hardcore on my criticism of most of these virtual events, mainly because virtual event platforms and virtual event executions or whatnot, well known as a first kind of generation problem. No one's really been under this kind of disruption when they got to replicate their business value as quickly in an environment they weren't optimized or have the personnel for. So you're seeing a lot of gaps in these virtuals, kinda like multi-cloud and high, where you have tens of different definitions of how to do it. I think Google went to nine weeks cause they really didn't know what to do. And they left a lot of their ecosystem hanging out there because normally Google next is a huge show with great content presentations. Everything's up on YouTube anyway. So on demand is not a build value. >>The real value of Google next was the face to face interactions. The show floor, the ecosystem, the expo hall that is completely absent from the show here. And this is consistent with other events. And honestly, it's over nine weeks, Amazon re-invent, it's going to be over three weeks. And last year they had a music festival. How are they going to replicate that again, this is a huge negative shift for these vendors because they rely so much on these events to get the word out. So it's really hard. Um, so I, I I'm really impressed with the nine week program and the sense of kind of staging it out and kind of the summer of cloud, I would have done things a little bit differently if I was them in terms of making it more exciting, but it's just really difficult to command attention for the audience over nine weeks. >>And I think that's, if they had to go back and do a Mulligan, I would've, they would've probably would've done more activation around the digital rather than a bunch of on demand video. So at least I did something and didn't cancel now the good news is there's a slew of news. We can collaborate on, um, the virtual spaces, the internet. So people are talking, it's just that it's all distributed. No one knows who's there, right? So it's not like an industry event. It's just an online collection of videos like on YouTube. So I felt that lack of intimacy was probably my, my biggest critique. Um, but again, I think he just wanted to move forward and get this behind them. >>I think you nailed it, John. I mean, on the one hand they made it harder for themselves stretching it out over nine weeks. On the other hand, they kind of took the easy way out is putting it up on all on demand. I guess they have analyst programs too, but I felt like they, weren't certainly not even close to what you have in physical. And it's really hard to obviously replicate physical, but I've seen other programs where the intimacy with the analyst and the journalist was much higher and opportunities to have interactions with executives. I felt it was just a little bit removed, actually quite a bit removed would have loved to have seen just a more intimate one-on-one activity. Maybe not one-on-one, but, but one, one to many with a smaller group of analysts and journalists, I think that would have gone a long way. Um, and that, that was missing for me anyway. >>I mean, they could have done nine micro events every week with like a rallying point is to pointed out, um, just really a difficult, I mean, who, who was executing this event? I mean, they have an events team that's used to doing physical events, Moscone and whatever. It's just, they didn't, I don't think had the time to figure it out. Be honest with you. I mean, Google is a company known for search relevance, find what you're looking for and uh, organizing content. I just think they didn't do a good job at all. And I think I didn't have any much attention cycles to it because I was kind of keying in the news, but I didn't know where my friends were. Who's rallying is Stu there. I didn't even, do's tweeting, I'm not following it. Or I missed his tweet. So there's a lot of asynchronous, um, stuff going on with was no, you know, gravity around a community or ecosystem kind of moment where I could schedule an hour at 10 o'clock or multiple times >>Does the day to check in and go to the watering hole or some stuff, >>You know, hub or instance like that. So, you know, something that we're thinking a lot about David's, you know, and I think this is a moving, moving target, but what's clear is that you can create synchronicity and still have the asynchronous programs. So at least we learned that with the Docker con event that we did and the software that we're building. So, you know, virtual events, isn't about just the events, but what happens on inside the event, outside the event, after the event, I think people are too hung up on this. I got to have a portal walled garden model. So I think it's going to be a learning curve for everybody. And I think Google may or may not do nine weeks. We'll see what re-invent does with three weeks. How do you keep people's attention? But three weeks when they're not in Vegas? >>Well, you know, no, I think that physical or virtual, it's your opportunity to write the narrative, to set the tone or set the narrative. And you're seeing this with the conventions, with the political conventions, you know, they're, they're actually, you know, you don't necessarily watch the whole thing, but you get a good sense, you know, post virtual event, what the narrative is. And I think that's cause you know, the media picks it up and I think it's, it's imperative to really do a good job of interacting with the media. You know, the analysts, the ecosystem, the partners, I haven't talked to a ton of partners who have been totally engaged other than, you know, their one-on-one activity. So I think there's an opportunity there to, to really write that narrative, to set that narrative and keep it alive and that, that entices people to go back and watch the man. Then I didn't feel that hook here. >>Yeah, here's the problem that I see with has Google has this problem and Docker con did not have the problem and you know, self-serving, we did that software, but we designed it for this purpose. When I go to an event, you do guys too. But personally, when I go to an event face to face, I like to get a sense of what the collective group at the event is thinking. I fly there, I'm present. I can see the presentation. I can see the pack breakout sessions. I know it's not back. I can get a sense visually. And with my senses on what the collective voice of the group is at an event, does it suck? Is it good? How's the band? What it's, what's the hallway conversation. So I can feel that I had none of that with Google next. Okay. Like, I didn't know, five, no, I had no other than some random things on Twitter, I had no sense what the collective ecosystem thought of the event. >>And I think a lot of the events have that problem where you can do both. You could have the rallying moment where there's a group collective coming together and send people to do that and still have the asynchronous consumption, organizing the content. But that's one of the main benefits. What is what's, what's going on with it? What's the voice of this collective? How are people thinking about this? And who's there? Who can I connect with and maybe follow up with, I didn't feel that this was simply a bunch of videos posted fundamental. Yeah, absolutely. John, >>If you can't feel that energy, is there a Slack channel, is there some chat group, uh, is there some way that, that you can be involved? Uh, definitely a missed opportunity, especially Google's got great collaboration tools. They're tied into all of our calendars would have been something that they could, uh, make ways that we could engage and find out. All right, John and Dave, thank you so much for helping us, uh, you know, really dig through a lot, going on. As we said, this nine week event, uh, we we've got a playlist, uh, that we're, we're going to be broadcasting for some of the key executives. Got, got a lot of the news here. And after this week, which was at modernization, we do have a couple other interviews that will be, uh, coming out, uh, when we have them, but be sure to check out the cube.net, uh, for all the upcoming, as well as search, to be able to find the previous, uh, content there, reach out to at furrier at diva launch date, or meet at Stu for any feedback or comments. We'd love to get your feedback, especially in these times when we can't all be together. So thanks John and Dave for joining and I'm Stu Miniman. Thank you for watching the cube.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE. Covering Google Cloud Next on Air '20. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman. And this is theCUBE's coverage of Google Cloud Next On Air. One of the weeks that they had for the show is to dig deep into infrastructure, of course, one of the foundational pieces when we talk about cloud, so happy to welcome to the program, I've got two of the general managers for both compute and networking. First of all, welcome back one of our cube alumni, June Yang, who's the vice president of compute and also welcoming Shailesh Shukla who's the vice president and general manager of networking both with Google Cloud. Thank you both so much for joining us. >> Great to be here. >> Great to be here, thanks for inviting us Stu. >> So June, if I can start with, you know, one of the themes I heard in the keynote that you gave during the infrastructure week was talking about, we talked about meeting customers where they are, how do I get, you know, all of my applications that I have, obviously some of them are building new applications. Some of them I'm doing SaaS, but many of them, I have to say, how do I get it from where I am to where I want to be and then start taking advantage of cloud and modernization and new capabilities. So if you could, you know, what's new when it comes to migration from a Google Cloud standpoint and, you know, give us a little bit insight as to what you're hearing from your customers. >> Yeah, definitely happy to do so. I think for many of our customers, migration is really the first step, right? A lot of the applications on premise today so the goal is really how do I move from on prem to the cloud? So to that extend, I think we have announced a number of capabilities. And one of the programs that are very exciting that we have just launched is called RAMP program which stands for Google Cloud Rapid Assessment and Migration Program. So it's really kind of bundling a holistic approach of you know, kind of programs tooling and you know, as well as incentives altogether to really help customer with that kind of a journey, right? And then also on the product side, we have introduced a number of new capabilities to really ease that transition for customer to move from on premise to the cloud as well. One of the things we just announced is Google Cloud VMware Engine. And this is really, you know, we built as a native service inside Google as a (indistinct) to allow customer to run their VMware as a service on top of Google infrastructure. So customers can easily take their, you know, what's running on premise, that's running VMware today and move it to cloud was really no change whatsoever and really lift and shift. And your other point is really about a modernization, right? Cause most of our customers coming in today, it's not just about I'm running this as a way it is. It's also, how do I extract value out of this kind of capability? So we build this as a service so that customer can easily start using services like BigQuery to be able to extract data and insights out of this and to be able to give them additional advantages and to create new services and things like that. And for other customers who might want to be able to, you know, leverage our AI, ML capability, that's at their fingertips as well. So it's just really trying to make that process super easy. Another kind of class of workloads we see is really around SAP, right? That's our bread and butter for many enterprises. So customers are moving those out into the clouds and we've seen many examples really kind of really, allow customers to take the data that's sitting in SAP HANA and be able to extract more value out of those. Home Depot is a great example of those and where they're able to leverage the inquiry to take, you know, their stockouts and some of the inventory management and really to the next level, and really giving a customer a much better experience at the end of the day. So those are kind of just a few things that we're doing on that side to really make you a customer easy to lift and shift and then be able to modernize along the way. >> Well yeah, June, if I would like to dig in a little bit on the VMware piece that you talked about. I've been talking of VM-ware a bit lately, talking to some of their customers leveraging the VMware cloud offerings and that modernization is so important because the traditional way you think about virtualization was I stick something in a VM and I leave it there and of course customers, I want to be able to take advantage of the innovation and changes in the cloud. So it seems like things like your analytics and AI would be a natural fit for VMware customers to then get access to those services that you're offering. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think we have lots of customers, that's kind of want to differentiators that customers are looking for, right? I can buy my VMware in a variety of places, but I want to be able to take it to the next level. How do I use data as my differentiator? You know, one of the core missions as part of the Google mission is really how do we help customers to digitally transform and reimagine their business was a data power innovation, and that's kind of one key piece we know we want to focus on, and this is part of the reason why we built this as really a native service inside of Google Cloud so that you're going through the same council using, you know, accessing VMware engine, accessing BigQuery, accessing networking, firewalls, and so forth, all really seamlessly. And so it makes it really easy to be able to extend and modernize. >> All right, well, June one of the other things, anytime we come to the Cloud event is we know that there's going to be updates in some of the primary offerings. So when it comes to compute and storage, know there's a number of announcements there, probably more than we'll be able to cover in this, but give us some of the highlights. >> Yeah, let me give some highlights I mean, at the core of this is a really Google Compute Engine, and we're very excited we've introduced a number of new, what we call VM families, right? Essentially different UBM instances, that's catered towards different use cases and different kinds of workloads. So for example, we launched the N2D VM, so this is a set of VMs on EMD technology and really kind of provide excellent price performance benefit for customers and who can choose to go down that particular path. We're also just really introduced our A2 VM family. This is based on GPU accelerator optimized to VM. So we're the first ones in the market to introduce NVIDIA Ampere A 100. So for lots of customers who were really introduced, we're interesting, you know, use GPU to do their ML and AI type of analysis. This is a big help because it's got a better performance compared to the previous generation so they can run their models faster and turn it around and turn insights. >> Wonderful. Shailesh, of course we want to hear about the networking components to, you know, Google, very well known you know, everybody leverages Google's network and global reach so how about the update from your network side? >> Absolutely. Stu, let me give you a set of updates that we have announced at next conference. So first of all as you know, many customers choose Google Cloud for the scale, the reach, the performance and the elasticity that we provide and ultimately results in better user experience or customer experience. And the backbone of all of this capability is our private global backbone network, right? Which all of our cloud customers benefit from. The networking is extremely important to advance our customers digital journeys, the ones that June talked about, migration and modernization, as well as security, right? So to that end, we made several announcements. Let's talk about some of them. First we announced a new subsea cable called the Grace Hopper which will actually run between the U.S. on one side and UK on the other and Spain on another leg. And it's equipped with about 16 fiber pairs that will get completed in 2022. And it will allow for significant new capacity between the U.S. and Europe, right? Second Google Cloud CDN, it's one of our most popular and fast-growing service offerings. It now offers the capability to serve content from on prem, as well as other clouds especially for hybrid and multicloud deployments. This provides a tremendous amount of flexibility in where the content can be placed and overall content and application delivery. Third we have announced the expansion of our partnership with Cisco and it's we have announced this notion of Cisco SD-WAN Cloud Hub with Google Cloud. It's one of the first in the industry to actually create an automated end to end solution that intelligently and securely, you know, connects or bridges enterprise networks to any workload across multiple clouds and to other locations. Four, we announced a new capabilities in the network intelligence center. It's a platform that provides customers with unmatched visibility into their networks, along with proactive kind of network verification, security recommendations, and so on. There were two specific modules there, around firewall insights and performance dashboard that we announced in addition to the three that already existed. And finally, we have a range of really powerful announcements in the security front, as you know, security is one of our top priorities and our infrastructure and products are designed, built and operated with an end to end security framework and end to end security as a core design principle. Let me give you a few highlights. First, as part of making it easy for firewall management for our customers to manage firewall across multiple organizations, we announced hierarchical firewall. Second, in order to enable, you know, better security capability, we announced the notion of packet metering, right? So which is something that we announced earlier in the year, but it's now GA and allows customers to collect and inspect network traffic across multiple machine types without any overhead, right? Third is, in actually in our compute and security teams, we announced the capability to what we call as confidential VMs, which offer the ability to encrypt data while being processed. We have always had the capability to encrypt data at rest and while in motion, now we are the first in the industry to announce the ability to encrypt data even while it is being processed. So we are really, you know, pleased to offer that as part of our confidential computing portfolio. We also announced the ability to do a managed service around our cloud armor security portfolio for DDoS web application and bot detection, that's called Cloud Armor Managed Protection. And finally we also announced the capability called Private Service Connect that allows customers to connect effortlessly to other Google Cloud services or to third party SaaS applications while keeping their traffic secure and private over the, in kind of the broader internet. So we were really pleased to announce in number of, you know, very critical kind of announcements, products and capabilities and partnerships such as Cisco in order to further the modernization and migration for our customers. >> Yeah, one note I will make for our audience, you know, check the details on the website. I know some of the security features are now in data, many of the other things it's now general availability. Shailesh, follow up question I have for you is when I look in 2020, the internet patterns of traffic have changed drastically. You saw a very rapid shift, everyone had needed to work from home, there's been a lot of stresses and strains on the network, when I hear things like your CDN or your SD-WAN partnership with Cisco, I have to think that there's, you know, an impact on that. What are you seeing? What are you hearing from your customers? How are you helping them work through these rapid changes to be able to respond and still give people the, you know, the performance and reliability of traffic where they need it, when they need? >> Right, absolutely. This is a, you know, very important question and a very important topic, right? And when we saw the impact of COVID, you know, as you know Google's mission is to be, continue to be helpful to our customers, we actually invested and continue to invest in building out our CDN capability, our interconnect, the capacity in our network infrastructure, and so on, in order to provide better, for example distance learning, video conferencing, e-commerce, financial services and so on and we are proud to say that we were able to support a very significant expansion in the overall traffic, you know, on a global basis, right? In Google Clouds and Google's network without a hitch. So we are really proud to be able to say that. In addition there are other areas where we have been looking to help our customers. For example, high performance computing is a very interesting capability that many customers are using for things such as COVID research, right? So a good example is Northeastern University in Boston that has been using, you know, a sort of thousands of kind of preemptable virtual machines on Google Cloud to power very large scale and a data driven model and simulations to figure out how the travel restrictions and social distancing will actually impact the spread of the virus. That's an example of the way that we are trying to be helpful as part of the the broader global situation. >> Great. June, I have to imagine generally from infrastructure there've been a number of other impacts that Google Cloud has been helping your customers, any other examples that you'd like to share? >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you look at the COVID impact, it impact different industries quite differently. We've seen certain industries that just really, their demand skyrocketed overnight. For example you know, I take one of our internal customer, Google, you know, Google Meet, which is Google's video conferencing service, we just announced that we saw a 30X increase over the last few months since COVID has started. And this is all running on Google infrastructure. And we've seen similar kind of a pattern for a number of our customers on the media entertainment area, and certainly video conferencing and so forth. And we've been able to scale to beat these key customer's demand and to make sure that they have the agility they need to meet the demand from their customers and so we're definitely very proud to be part of the, you know, part of this effort to kind of enable folks to be able to work from home, to be able to study from home and so on and so forth. You know, for some customers, you know, the whole business continuity is really a big deal for them, you know, where's the whole work from home a mandate. So for example, one of our customers Telus International, it's a Canadian telecommunication company, because of COVID they had to, you know, be able to transition tens and thousands of employees to work on the whole model immediately. And they were able to work with Google Cloud and our partner, itopia, who is specializing in virtual desktop and application. So overnight, literally in 24 hours, we're able to deploy a fully configured virtual desktop environments from Google Cloud and allow their employees to come back to service. So that's just one example, there's hundreds and thousands more of those examples, and it's been very heartening to be part of this, you know, Google to be helpful to our customer. >> Great. Well, I want to let both of you just have the final word when you're talking to customers here in 2020, how should they be thinking of Google Cloud? How do you make sure that you're helping them in differentiating from some of the other solutions and the environment? May be June if we could start with you. >> Sure, so at Google Cloud, our goal is to make it easy for anyone you know, whether you're big big enterprises or small startups, to be able to build your applications, to be able to innovate and harness the power of data to extract additional information, insights, and to be able to scale your business. As an infrastructure provider, we want to deliver the best infrastructure to run all customers application and on a global basis, reliably and securely. Definitely getting more and more complicated and you know, as we kind of spread our capacity to different locations, it gets more complicated from a logistics and a perspective as well so we want to help to do the heavy lifting around the infrastructure, so that from a customer, they can simply consume our infrastructure as a service and be able to focus on their businesses and not worry about the infrastructure side. So, you know, that's our goal, we'll do the plumbing work and we'll allow customers innovate on top of that. >> Right. You know, June you said that very well, right? Distributed infrastructure is a key part of our strategy to help our customers. In addition, we also provide the platform capability. So essentially a digital transformation platform that manages data at scale to help, you know, develop and modernize the applications, right? And finally we layer on top of that, a suite of industry specific solutions that deliver kind of these digital capabilities across each of the key verticals, such as financial services or telecommunications or media and entertainment, retail, healthcare, et cetera. So that's how combining together infrastructure platform and solutions we are able to help customers in their modernization journeys. >> All right, June and Shailesh, thank you so much for sharing the updates, congratulations to your teams on the progress, and absolutely look forward to hearing more in the future. >> Great, thank you Stu. >> Thank you Stu. >> All right, and stay tuned for more coverage of Google Cloud Next On Air '20. I'm Stu Miniman, thank you for watching theCUBE. (Upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Instructor: From around the globe. It's theCUBE covering Google Cloud Next OnAir 20. >> Welcome to theCUBE's coverage, virtual coverage of Google Next OnAir. I'm John for host theCUBE, We're here in Palo Alto California, for our remote interviews, part of our quarantine crew, getting all the stories that matter, Google Next OnAir, continuous event through the summer. We're calling it the summer of cloud. We've got two great guests here. Sunil Potti general manager and vice president of cloud security at Google Cloud. and Orion Hindawi co founder and CEO of Tanium. Gentlemen, thank you for coming on today, appreciate it. Great event you guys have on the continue. I'll call it the summer cloud. It's a lot of events that Google's having, So you guys and your team are doing a great job, but there's some hard news. You guys are announcing an expanded partnership together. Sunil tell us what is the news today. >> John, first of all, great to see you again, love being on theCUBE any time, and it's my honor to actually share the stage this time around with Orion and the Tanium team. So essentially what we're announcing today, is the fact that, as most of you know, especially in the new normal with a distributed workforce, and potentially it being the safer normal, down the road it presents, an unprecedented opportunity, I think in our opinion, that we can use this to accelerate potentially safer posture that otherwise would have taken years to build into the enterprise ecosystem that we could now bring forward, in a potentially, you know, in the year 2020 or 2021. So the primary announcement, is based on the fact that, Tanium's, you know, core enterprise offering and Google clouds, chronicle offering are coming together, to build a full stack offering for endpoint detection and response so that customers can have an end to end offering. That's both powerful, and you know, easy to use. All the way from the detection, response, remediation and analytics, all built together into one seamless, easy to consume offering for the global enterprise and being delivered in such a way that it can take into account organizations of thousands of employees or hundreds of thousands of employees. All by the same cloud native solution. >> All right how about why you're excited about this deal. What's different about it. Obviously there's a relationship here, what's so exciting about this story. >> Yeah, I think, you know, Orion to comment as well, but look, I think the key thing that we sort of partnered on initially was a customer driven, you know, technology centric integrations, where, you know, we went deep from a chronical perspective, to ensure native integration, between Tanium products to send signals, out of the box, as well as curated, enhanced, enriched, so that they could be actionable responses taken by Tanium solutions as well on behalf of security analysts, as part of our journey, to kind of reinvent the SOC of the future. Right? And so essentially, it's been a deliberate effort by both teams to not provide incremental integrations, but something that offers a reimagined safety posture, especially that's enhanced, I would say amplified, in a world where pretty much every employee, is essentially a tech director now. But otherwise was not the case, when they were working in a normal enterprise office. >> All right, what's your take on this? I'll say what's different I'll say big news. >> Sure, yeah. I mean, if you look at why we decided that Google would have been the perfect partner for us, we have very large enterprises. We work with about 70 of the fortune 100, the USOD, a lot of these very large environments, and many of them were coming to us and telling us two things. The first one was the amount of data, that they were generating, that they needed to be able to process and analyze and be able to find insight from, was going exponentially up. And the second one was, in the new kind of post COVID world, the amount of work from home risks that they were seeing, and the kind of perfection they needed to achieve, on finding threats quickly and neutralizing them was actually also going up. And so between those two things, we started really looking for a partner, that we could accelerate with, to provide our customers with true world-class data analytics, retention, being able to visualize that data and then being able to act on that data through Tanium. And I think that the partnership that we've struck with Google and the work we've done with them, to make this seamless for our customers, to make it scale really well, even for the largest managed networks, is something we're really proud of. >> What's the history between Chronicle and Tanium. What's the, how far back does it go, and how would you guys categorize this time and point in time in terms of evolution of that partnership? >> So maybe I'll take a stab Sunil, then you can take one as well, you know. We've been working with Chronicle now for over a year. And we've got customers, who kind of pointed us in this direction, which is how we love to start partnerships. We had some customers who had a lot of faith, that Google was going to be able to crack this nut. And honestly many of our customers had been really struggling with this, with their current vendors at the time, for years. And we're really looking for Google, because Google was the company, that they saw as having the most credibility with massive, massive data sets. What we got surprised by actually, was that there were a bunch of different legs of the stool, that we could work with Google on. So not only data retention of Chronicle, but things like zero trust, which I think many people know Google actually invented the concept of. When we start thinking about thin client management. So we actually found that, there's a really expansive partnership here. And what we're doing with Chronicle, I think is the first kind of instantiation of that. But we expect that over the next even years, we've got a lot of room to run with Google, to really secure and help our customers. >> Sunil talk about the wave that you're riding on right now. 'Cause obviously the reality is, I won't use the term new normal, but the new reality is, COVID has forced everyone to look at basically an unexpected disruption that no one saw coming. Yeah, we can prepare for disasters and floods and hurricanes and whatnot, but this is unforeseen everybody working at home. I mean, I can imagine all the VPN vendors, freaking out who even needs a VPN. So, you know, the access methods is everything, it's mobile, home, home is the new office. It's not just, you know, connect to an access point, my son's gaming, my daughter is watching Netflix. I'm trying to do some video conferencing and it's a mix of consumer business all happening. This is a complex environment now. What does this mean? This relation, how does this connect the dots? Can you, can you expand on that. >> Yeah, I mean I think I hinted on this a little bit at the beginning John, is that, we think, you know, this is an, you know, an unprecedented opportunity to help accelerate digital transformation, that otherwise would have taken a few years for many enterprises to get to. That can now be done potentially in months and for some customers maybe even in weeks. And some examples of that, that we've seen are that, look, if you just took, if you just take Google as an company, to Orion's point, look, we invested many years worth of technology and IP that now we're slowly bringing out in the form of BeyondCorp product sets. But essentially of the fact that look, we should treat every employee as if they were a remote worker. We don't trust the network, we basically break transitive properties, which was one of the foundational issues with security in the enterprise, where I trust a network and the network is trusted by a desktop. And then if you penetrate one, you can penetrate everything else in the chain. And so when COVID hit, we went from essentially pretty much, a hundred thousand plus employees, working in distributed headquarters, but within the Google environment, to working from home within a week later, but retained the same sort of like, not productive the levels just, but actually the same safety levels that were much stronger. And so in many cases, what we are announcing, is that even though enterprises have come forward and said, look, yeah, we have some PaaS work solutions, just because this is a major change for us. Now that we are in it, for not just three months or six months, but potentially a longer period of time. Why not take the opportunity to replatform our security environments, so that we can actually be in a better state, when we actually exit out of this. We might actually never go back full time, but it can actually be a hybrid environment. So that's part of the reason, why I think we are so jazzed about the partnership, is that these are two examples, of products coming together to help replatform, at least one sets of, you know, traditional, if I can call it weaklings in the security ecosystem, that can now be sort of like replatformed. >> I was doing an interview actually last week, and I was kind of riffing on this idea. This is one big IoT experiment. I mean, people are devices here and everyone's connected, but it's all remote. It's changed the patterns of work and traffic and all kinds of paradigms. But this brings up the issue of the customer challenge. Everyone's going to look up their environment saying, look at, we now know the benefit of cloud it's clear. But I got to rethink the projects that are on the table, and get rid of the ones, that aren't going to be relevant, to where the world has shifted. It's not even a question of digital transfer. It's like, okay, what am I doubling down on. And what am I going to eliminate from the picture. So I've got to ask you guys, if you guys can comment, if I'm a customer that's what's going through my head, I got to survive, reinvent the foundation, and come out with a growth strategy, with a workforce, workplace, workloads, and workflows that are completely different. What's in it for me. What does this mean to me. This partnership, so how do you help me. What's in it for me. >> So I might take a stab at that, you know, I think that a lot of our customers, if we look at where they were at the beginning of the year, they'd been building on a pretty creaky foundation and just adding more and more layers to it. So, you know, in the security side, many of our customers have 20 or 30 or 50 different tools. And many of them are there, because they were there yesterday. They're not actually, if you were going to zero base budget, the way you were going to do security, they wouldn't be the tools you'd choose. And the interesting thing about this whole work from home transition, it is effectively a zero based budget for security, because a lot of the tools just basically don't work. So you think about a lot of the network tools, and when everybody's working from home, you don't own the network. You think about a lot of even the endpoint tools, that assumed that devices would be behind that network perimeter, and now just don't work over the internet. And so when we look at our customers, they're realizing they have to replatform, their security model, anyway. And what they're doing is they're now picking again. And what they get to do is they get to pick the platforms that they now trust in 2020, with the work from home environment as it is. And I think what it gives you as a customer, is a huge simplification of your environment. I mean, we talk to people every day, who were used to operating those 20 or 30, 50 tools, and they were spending 90% of their energy just operating those tools, not actually improving security and they were falling behind. If you look at what they're able to do now, they actually can go back to a starting point, where they think about what is the real threat I'm facing. What are the real platforms, I should be choosing today. And we're actually seeing huge increases, in our customer kind of adoption of our platform because that resistance to change, has been removed. People can't resist change anymore, change has come, and as a result of that, they get to choose what they would like now. >> That's a huge point, I want to just double down on that and redirect, and then we'll go to Sunil and his commentary, but I think you just hit the nail on the head. We're seeing the same kind of commentary. You said it really eloquently, but the thing is that, okay, let's just, if you believe what you just said, which I do going into zero base budgeting decisions, fresh look and everything. The problem is people are looking at the decisions and comparing what the bells and whistles were from the tools. So how do you advise customers to rethink like, okay, if it's a fresh look, it's a fresh look. It's not like, okay, the way we did it before, so a lot of times when you were evaluating products, a group gets to say, it doesn't have this bell or this whistle, 'cause that's the way we did it before. So you got to kind of separate out, this idea of you're got to go that direction. It's a full, fresh look. So how are customers doing that, 'cause that's really difficult. >> It's a super relevant question for today's world, because I think you're absolutely right. If you talk to the person who operated the compliance tool in a big bank, and you ask them, what do you need from that tool? They very quickly get the things, that if you just take the question, which is, I need to do compliance for the bank, what do I need to do compliance effectively? And you look at the answer that they give you, which is I need this check box here. I need this button here. I need this kind of minutiae that I'm used to, to be consistent with what I've been used to, for the last 10 years. Those two things are not the same. And what we've really been encouraging our customers to do is take a look back at your requirements. So you are processing credit cards, you need to be PCI regulated. You need to be able to answer to your vendors, how many copies of their software you're using. You need to be able to find an attacker, who's moving around your environment, and do that as quickly as possible. And then let's build from there what capabilities you need. And let's forget about whether the color scheme, of the logo at the top of the report is the same. Let's talk about the core capabilities. And it's a very freeing conversation actually, because what a lot of people start realizing, is they've been maintaining the status quo, for reasons that actually have nothing to do with efficacy, they have to do with comfort. And the curse and the beauty of the last six months, is no one's comfortable. So I don't care how comfortable you are with your tools. No one I know is comfortable today. And what it's giving us, is an opportunity to look past the old school comfort and think about how do we transition to the future. And I think it's actually going to galvanize a lot of positive change. You know, I was saying this before we went on air, but I don't think anybody wished, that COVID was the way, that we would end up in a position, where people have the appetite for change. But if there's a silver lining in the situation, that's it. And I really think that the CIOs and CEOs and CFOs and CSOs, really across the board, need to take advantage of the fact, that there's a discontinuity here, that allows us to throw out the old, and bring in things that are much more effective. >> Sunil that's some great tea up for you, because what he's saying basically saying is if you don't focus on the check boxes, because it was reasons why, and they'll give you, there's a long list, probably RFPs are the same way, we check in the boxes, okay, throw that out. And then you can, by the way, you can innovate on those check boxes differently, but still achieve the same outcome. I get that. But for Google Cloud, you guys have a great network. It's well known in the industry. Google's got a phenomenal network, hence powering Android and all the servers. We know that, with a cloud player, this is a great opportunity for you guys to be a fresh candidate for this kind of change. How are you guys talking about this internally? Because this really is, the goalposts have been moved and in favor of who can deliver. >> I think as both of you have been talking about, I think, look, I think the way I will, you know, maybe color this is, you know, when consumers got to a safer posture with the advent of iPhone, right? Even though it was much more productive, delightful, and there's a bunch of other things, ultimately though, if anything, things became safer, when you actually did computing on a phone. Just because it was an opinionated stack. Ultimately we believe, whether you come to cloud completely or you consume some stacks, the more opinionated they are, that's ultimately the only way, to reduce these moving parts that expose us to security issues. And that principle applied by the way in reliability too, right? I mean, you have to simplify stuff for things to actually work at six nines and so forth. So same things, apply in security. So imagine a world, where every employee now is sitting at home, maybe two years from now, they come back, they work in the Starbucks, but we had a virtual Chromebook experience, because a physical Chromebook of course, it's a goal to kind of get that out there, because on one hand we have the cloud, which is a full stack opinionated offering, but there's various elements of computing, still dispersed in the environment. And you were talking about IoT. Eventually we will get there, but just look at the employee's laptop, but productivity station and imagine the construct of a virtual Chromebook off, and that's an opinionated stack. And that's essentially a variant of what the joint offering between the two companies is essentially, you know, sort of aspiring to, is to provide that level of, you know, clarity and opinionation, that actually genuinely solves for some foundational security issues. And in doing so, you now have, an opinionated stack close to the user, the enterprise user is an opinion stack via mobile phones, close to the consumer user. And for all enterprises from a computing side, there's an opinion stack, whether it be Google or some of the other public clouds, right? And ultimately I think the world will move, into these few sets of these opinionated stacks at various points of control. And at least this particular partnership, is around making the first step towards, potentially one of those opinionated stacks, virtual Chromebook like experience, for the enterprise use. >> And I think this is the beginning, of the wave of the reality, that the edge of the network, whatever you want to call it. And you see this with end point detection, right I mean, everything's an endpoint now. I mean, I still think every, this is one big IoT device, and everything is just moving around. So zero trust is a big part of it, Google cloud, and this relationship kind of brings that to the next level. How does zero trust, attaining a mission intersect here. Because I mean, I see some obvious ones, we just talked about it, but what's the connection. >> Yeah, I think we'll hopefully, you know, talk more about it later in the year, as well as we can to come out with more integrations. But at the high level, I think the way to think about this would be, imagine that device as you were talking about, having an ability to actually send a strong set of signals, not just for detection and response, but for actually enforcing, you know, authentication and authorization as well, because ultimately identity needs to intersect, with the current stack, that we currently have between the two companies. And so when identity of the user, identity of the device, identity of you know, the context in which, you know, someone actually allows a user to access an application, these are all net new things, that need to be brought into the solution. We cannot then provide both the, you know, not just a safe way to kind of provide an, you know, an endpoint detection and response kind of opinion stack, but also essentially meet that part of an uber zero trust offering, that a customer can consume to ensure that look, you know, ultimately look, it doesn't really matter whether the employees at home they're using their own laptop. They're at Starbucks. They can come back to work, but ultimately they have this virtualized, sort of security ring, that protects and always constantly authorizes authenticates and provides a bunch of this security operations capabilities. So anyway, the simple answer is, you know, once we intersect identity, and a slew of BeyondCorp capabilities, into the current offering, that's how the next step towards, a more formidable zero trust offering force. >> Okay, Orion I'd love to get your thoughts, but if you both can answer question, that'd be great. I'd love to get your thoughts, a little gamification here. If you had to put the headline out on this news. Not the one on the press release, that's like perfectly written, like, I mean, bumper sticker. what is the real meaning, of this relationship in this news? If you had to put a headline out there, I think Washington, think New York post style maybe, or you know, something that can describe the news. >> I mean, I will admit, I am not known for being good at soundbites, so, I'll give you the one sentence, and you can help me pare it down. But I mean, really what it is, is I think Tanium got, the highest fidelity and point visibility and control out there. And I think Google's got the best data storage analytics retention cross-referencing we've ever seen. And when you combine those two things, it's incredibly powerful, for our enterprise users, and we've already seen customers, where it's been transformative. >> So you need a headline, that's good though , that's fine. You know, point projection solid. >> I think it's a much more descriptive nature, frankly, but I think my logical tagline, that I just keep, you know, sort of like the sound, but soundbite that I keep referring to is. Looking out the world needs a virtual Chromebook, to really feel safe at an end point level. And this is sort of like the first instantiation, of that core stack, that can at least get enterprise to start on that journey. >> You know, I think you guys run something really big here. And one of my personal observations, is one is the complexity of the telemetry coming, and I can see how you would go in there and connecting the dots between Google's backend, and your stuff coming together. You need to have that high powered energy, from the resource, but also there's a human element. People are working at home, whether you're a teacher, you're getting fished their spear fish, to targeted social engineering. So as people come home, and there's now multiple access points, there's more surface area. So every single endpoint needs to be protected. And I think people are kind of in the normal world, or outside of the tech industry saying, Oh, I get it now. We're not really protected. And this is not just sensor networks, or, you know, OT technology, you know, OT, it's really humans. And this is really where it's going. Isn't it guys? >> Okay. >> You should take it there, look, I think we do have a foundational principle here, which says, look as demonstrated in a postcode world, but your point John, or whether it be IoT, just distributed computing in general continues to expand. We should just assume, that the surface area for security issues only expense, right? And rather than trying to kind, of do a vacuum all of the surface area, what if you could take a foundational approach, that actually breaks the relationship, between expanded surface area means expanded exposure to PaaS. And so essentially the same approach that we took, with zero trust, which is, look, we just know we're going to get broken into. So just don't assume that your network is not safe, but still have a secure posture. Right? How did that come to be? I think if we can just apply that, more generally into this construct of a distributed enterprise, which says, look, the surface area is going to keep going, but let's break that correlation between surface area. Let's buy a more foundational construct, that says, look, it doesn't matter, if today, as you said this your device, tomorrow, it could be, you know, your son's laptop, that you use to actually log into your network and so forth. But ultimately though, it doesn't matter who you are, where you're accessing it from, what device you're using, or what network you're using, or which location, the safety posture is still very strong. >> That's awesome. >> Yeah. I will just add you're absolutely right. I mean, if you look at a customer, I'm thinking about today and I just heard this from their CIO, a couple of days ago, but they have one and a half million things, they're protecting today. They expect to have over 150 million in five years. And so you look at containerization, cloud mobility, all the work from home stuff. It's just going to make this a more and more complex, highly variant problem. We need to expect that. And I think a lot of people are very frustrated, that at the time, that expansion is happening, the network essentially did become a control point. You couldn't trust anymore. So the thesis that Google had around zero trust, actually became our entire world for most enterprises. When you look at that, we do owe our customers quantum jumps in capability, or they're just not going to catch up. And I think that the theoretical approach that we're taking here between Google and Tanium, lets our customers take one of those quantum jumps, where they're going to be seeing a lot more, they're going to be able to trust it a lot more. They're going to be able to allow devices, to have access to things, based on their current state and based on believing that we can extrapolate, whether their security on that device accurately. And that's something that I think a lot of customers have just never been able to do before. And frankly, I think it takes companies like this, to pair up and really invest in joining their technologies to be able to get that fabric that will get our customers materially forward. And you know, I'll just say one other thing, many of our customers have to literally like, you know, three or four months ago, we're in a position, where they were spending 60 or 70% of their security budgets on network. There's nowhere to spend that money today. That's actually productive. It gives them the ability to refactor what they're doing and the obligation to do it, because if they don't do it, I think is, you know, I was describing with the amount of increased assets, the amount of complexity, the lack of network control. If they don't do it, looking at the amount, of threat our customers are facing today, they're going to be under water really quickly. And so, you know, I'm proud that we get to get together here and give them a big step forward. And you know, I think there's an obligation on our industry, not to try and rewarm the same stuff, we've been doing for the last 20 years, and try and serve it to our customers again, but to really rethink the approach because it is a different world. >> Sunil you've been involved in a very, a lot of entrepreneurial ventures. You've been on these waves, that were misunderstood and then became understood. This is what we're getting at here. And what he's saying, essentially new expectations. We're going to drive that experience and then ultimately drive the demand, and people will either be out of business or in business. If you're a supplier, I'll give you the final word, you guys are in good positions. >> Especially in security John, more so than maybe any other infrastructure space, that I've been involved in. Most products have been built to solve problems with other products. And Orion just pointed out, I think this opportunity gives enterprises, clarity and vendors, clarity that look, you really have to take, you know, foundationally original approach, to solve problems, that can get customers to, if I can call it a function change, in their current safety posture. Right? And so that's really the core essence of the partnership is to sort of, rather than worrying about solving problems, with other products and so forth, is to use this opportunity, like I said, you have an opinionated view, to fundamentally change, the security posture of the endpoint once and for all. >> Well gentlemen, congratulations, on a great partnership, expanded partnership. Again, the world has changed. I love this fresh look. I think that's totally right on the money. New reality we're here. Thanks for you taking the time, to remote in from Seattle and the Bay area. Great to see you again at Google cloud. Thanks for coming in or a nice to meet you, and good luck with everything. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay, this is theCUBE coverage, CUBE virtual coverage of Google OnAir next 2020. It's all virtual, virtualization has come in, and don't trust the network. You know, you got to watch those end points. Here with Google and Tanium great partnership news. I'm John for your host of theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering Google Cloud. Next on Air 20. Hi, I'm Stew Minimum And and this is the Cube's coverage of Google Cloud next 20 on air, Of course. Last year we were all in person in San Francisco. This year it's an online experience. It's actually spanning many weeks and this week when we're releasing the Cube interviews, talking about application modernization, happy to welcome back program two of our Cube alumni. Chris Well, I've got Aparna Sinha, Uh, who is the director of product management, and joining her is Pali Bhat, who's the vice president of product and design, both with Google Cloud Poly. Welcome back. Thanks so much for joining us. >>Thank you. Good to be here. >>Well, so it goes without saying it. That 2020 has had quite a lot of changes. Really affect it. Start with you. You know, obviously there's been a lot of discussion is what is the impact of the global pandemic? The ripple in the economy on cloud. So I would love to hear a little bit. You know what you're hearing from your customers. What? That impact has been on on you and your business. >>Yes to thank thank you for asking as I look at our customers, what's been most inspiring for me to see is how organizations and the people in those organizations are coming together to help each other during this unprecedented event. And one of the things I wanted to highlight is, as we all adjust to this sort of new normal, there are two things that I keep seeing across every one of our customers. Better operation efficiency, with the focus on cost saving is something that's a business imperative and has drawn urgency. And the second bit is an increased focus on agility and business innovation. In the current atmosphere, where digital has truly become gone from being one of the channels being D channel, we're seeing our customers respond by being more innovative and reaching their customers in the way that they want to be rich. And that's been, for me personally, very inspiring to see. And we turned on Google Cloud to be a part of helping our customers in this journey in terms of our business itself. We're seeing tremendous momentum around our organization business because it plays directly into these two business imperatives around operational efficiency, cost saving and, of course, business innovation and agility. In Q two of 2020 we saw more than 100,000 companies use our application modernization platform across G ke and those cloud functions Cloud Run and our developers tools. So we've been, uh, just tagged with the response of how customers are using our tools in order to help them run their businesses, operate more efficiently and be more innovative on behalf of their customers. So we're seeing customers use everything from building mission critical applications who then securing, migrating and then operating our services. And we've also seen that customers get tremendous benefits. We've seen up to a 35% increase simply by using our own migration tools. And we've also seen it up to 75% improvement to all of the automation and re platform ing that they can do with our monetization platform. That's been incredible. What I do want to do. Those have a partner chime in on some of the complexity that these customers are seeing and how we're going about trying to address that >>Yes, eso to help our customers with the application modernization journey. Google Cloud really offers three highly differentiated capabilities. Us to the first one is really providing a consistent development and operations experience, and this is really important because you want the same experience, regardless of whether you're running natively in Google Cloud or you're running across clouds or you're running hybrid or you're running at the edge. And I think this is a truly unique differentiator off what we offer. Secondly, we really give customers and their developers industry leading guidance. And this is particularly important because there's a set of best practices on how you do development, how you run these applications, how you operate them in production for high reliability, a exceptional security staff, the stature and for the maximum developer efficiency on. And we provide the platform and the tooling to do that so that it can be customized to it's specific customers needs and their specific place on that modernization journey. And then the third thing on and I think this is incredibly important as well is that we would ride a data driven approach, a data driven optimization and benchmarking approach so that we can tell you where you are with regard to best practice and then help you move towards best practice, no matter where you're starting. >>Yeah, well, thank you, Aparna and Polly definitely resonates with what we're hearing. You know, customers need to be data driven. And then there's the imperative Now that digital movement Pali last year at the show, of course, Antos was, you know, really the talk of the conference years gone by. We know things move really fast, so if you could, you know, probably don't have time to get all of the news, but share with us the updates what differentiated this year along from a new standpoint, >>Yeah, So we've got tremendous set off improvements to the platform. And one of the things that I wanted to just share was that our customers as they actually migrate on to onto the cloud and begin the modernization journeys in their digital transformation programs. What we're seeing over and over is those customers that start with the platform as opposed to an individual application, are set up for success in the future. The platform, of course, is an tos where your application modernization journey begins. In terms of updates, we're gonna share a series off updates in block post, etcetera. I just want to highlight a few. We're sharing their availability off Antos for their middle swathe things that our customers have been asking about. And now our customers get to run on those on Prem and at the edge without the need for a hyper visor. What this does is helps organizations minimize unnecessary overhead and ultimately unlock all of the new cloud and edge use case. The second bit is we're not in the GF our speech to text on prem capability, but this is our first hybrid AI capability. So customers like Iron Mountain get to use hybrid AI, so they have full control of the infrastructure and have control off their data so they can implement data residency and compliance while still leveraging all of Google Cloud AI capabilities. Third services identity again. This extends existing identity solutions so that you can seamlessly work on and those workloads again. This is going to be generally available for on premise customers and better for Antos on AWS, and you're going to see more and more customers be able to leverage their existing identity investments while still getting the consistency that Anton's provides across environments. In the last one that I like to highlight is on those attached clusters, which lets customers bring any kubernetes conforming cluster on Toronto's and still take advantage of the advanced capabilities that until provides like declarative configurations and service automation. So one of the customers I just want to call out is Cold just built it. Entire hybrid cloud strategy on Anton's Day began with the platform first, and now we're seeing a record number of customers on Cold Start camaraderie. Take advantage of Mantel's tempting. With Macquarie Bank played, there's a number of use cases. I am particularly excited about major league baseball. I'm a big fan of baseball, and Major League Baseball is now using and those for 2020 season and all of the stadium across, trusting a large amount of data and gives them the capability to get those capabilities in stadiums very, really acceptable. All of those >>Okay, quick, quick. Follow up on that and those attached clusters because it was one of the questions I had last year. Google Cloud has partnerships with VM Ware for what they're doing. You know, Red Hat and Pivotal also is part of the VM Ware families, and they have their own kubernetes offering. So should I be thinking of this as a management capability that's similar to like what? What Andrew does Or maybe as your arca, Or is it just a kind of interoperability piece? How do we understand how these multiple kubernetes fit together? >>Yeah. So what we've done with Antos has really taken the approach that we need to help our customers are made and manage the infrastructure to specifically what Antos attach clusters gives our customers is they can have any kubernetes cluster as long as it's kubernetes conformance, they can benefit from all of the things that we provide in terms of automation. One of the challenges, of course, is you know, those two is configuring these very, very large instances in walls. A lot of handcrafting today we can provide declarative configuration. So you automate all of that. So think of this as configures code I think of this is infrastructure scored management scored. We're providing that service automation layer on top of any kubernetes conforming cluster with an tools. >>Great. Alright, uh, it's at modernization weeks, so Ah, partner, maybe bring us in aside. You were talking about your customers and what their what they're doing to modernize what's new that they should be aware of this year. >>Yeah, so So, First of all, you know, our mission is really to accelerate innovation in every organization through making their developers more productive as well as automating their operations. And this is something that is resonating even more in these times. Specifically, I think the biggest news that we have is really around, how we're going to help companies get started with the application modernization so that they can maximize the impact of their modernization efforts. And to do this, we're introducing what we're calling. The Google Cloud Application Modernization program or a Google camp for short on Google Camp has three pieces. It has an assessment, which is really data driven and fact based. It's a baseline assessment that helps organizations understand where they are in terms of their maturity with application modernization. Secondly, we give them a blueprint. This is something that is, is it encapsulates a specific set of best practices, proven best practices from development to security to operations, and it's something that they can put into practice and implement immediately. These practices, they cover the entire application lifecycle from writing the code to the See I CD to running it and operating it for maximum reliability and security. And then the third aspect, of course, is the application platform. And this is a modern platform, but also extremely extensible. And, as you know, it spans across clouds on this enables organizations to build, run and secure and, of course, manage both legacy as well as new applications. And the good news, of course, here is you know, this is a time tested platform. It's something that we use internally as well. For our Cloud ML services are being query omni service capability as well as for apogee, hot hybrid and many more at over time. So with the Google campus really covered all aspects of the application lifecycle. And we think it's extremely important for enterprises to have this capability. >>Yeah, so a party when you talk about the extent ability, I would expect that Google Cloud Run is one of the options there to help give us a bridge to get to server list. If that's where customers looking to my right on >>that, that's rights to the camp program provides is holistic, and it brings together many of our capabilities. So Cloud Code Cloud See I CD Cloud Run, which is our server less offering and also includes G ki e and and those best practices. Because customers for their applications, they're usually using multiple platforms. Now, in the case of Cloud Run, in particular, I want to highlight that there's been a lot of interest in the serverless capability during this last few months. In particular, I think, disproportionate amount of interest and server lists on container Native. In fact, according to the CNC F 2020 State of Cloud Native Development Report, you might have seen that, you know, they noted that 2.7 million cloud native developers are using kubernetes and four million are using serverless architectures or cloud functions, and that about 60% of back and developers are now using containers. So this just points to the the usage that was happening already and is now really disproportionately accelerated. In our case, you know, we've we've worked with several customers at the New York State Department and Media Market. Saturn are two that are really excellent stories with the New York State Department. They had a unemployment claims crisis. There was a lot. Ah, volume. That was difficult for their application to handle. And so we worked with them to re architect their application as a set of micro services on Google Cloud on our public sector team of teamed up with them to roll out a new unemployment website in record time. That website was able to handle the 1600% increase in Web traffic compared to a typical week. And this is very much do, too, the dev ops tooling that we provided and we worked with them on and then with Media market Saturn. This is really an excellent example in EMEA based example of a retailer that was able to achieve an eight X increase in speed as well as a 40% cost reduction. And these are really important metrics in these times in particular because for a retailer in the Cove in 19 crisis, to be able to bring new applications and new features to the hands of their customers is ultimately something that impacts their business is extremely valuable. >>Yeah, you think you bring up a really great point of partner when I traditionally think of application modernization. Maybe I've been in the space to long. But it is. Simplicity is not. The first thing that comes to mind is probably pointed out right now. There's an imperative people need to move fast, so I want to throw it out to both of you. How is Google's trying to make sure that, you know, in these uncertain times that customers can move fast and that with all these technology options that it could be just a little bit simpler? >>Yeah, I think I just, uh you know, start off by saying the first thing we've done is build all of our services from the ground up with automation, simplicity and agility in mind. So we've designed for development teams and operations teams be able to take these solutions and get productive with them right away. In addition, we understand that some of our largest customers actually need dedicated program where they can actually assess where they are and then map out a plan for incremental improvement so they can get on their journey to application modernization. But do it with the highest our way. And that was Google camp that apartment talked about ultimately at Google Cloud. Our mission, of course, is to accelerate innovation. Every organization toe hold developer velocity improvements, but also giving them the operation automation that we talked about with that application modernization platform. So we're very excited to be able to do this with every organization. >>Great. Well, Aparna, I'll let you have the final word Is the application modernization week here at Google Cloud. Next online, you can have the final take away for customers. >>Well, thank you, cio. You know, we are extremely passionate about developers on. We want to make sure that it is easy for anyone, anywhere to be able to get started with development as well as to have a path to, uh, accelerated path to production for their applications. So some of what we've done in terms of simplicity, which, as you said is extremely important in this environment, is to really make it easy to get started on. Some of the announcements are around build packs and the integration of cloud code are plug ins to the development environment directly into our serverless environment. And that's the type of thing that gets me excited. And I think I'm very passionate about that because it's something that applies to everyone. Uh, you know, regardless of where they are or what type of person they are, they can get started with development. And that can be a path to economic renewal and growth not just for companies, but for individuals. And that's a mission that we're extremely passionate about. Google Cloud >>Apartment Poly Thank you so much for sharing all the updates. Congratulations to the team. And definitely great to hear about how you're helping customers in these challenging times. >>Thank you for having us on. >>Thank you. So great to see you again. >>Alright. Stay tuned for more coverage from stew minimum and, as always, Thank you for watching the Cube. Yeah, yeah.

>> Narrator: Live from San Diego, California it's theCUBE covering Cisco Live, US, 2019. Brought to you by Cisco and its eco system partners. >> Welcome back to San Diego everybody. This is theCUBE the leader in live tech coverage, My name is Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman is here, Lisa Martin as well but we've got a very special guest now Ken O'Reilly my good friend is here. He's the director of customer experience for Cisco Stealthwatch. Kenny great to see you thanks for coming on. >> Well, thanks for having me, Dave. Good seeing you as well. >> Yes so customer experience, people think about customer experience and security it's not always great right? It's a challenging environment they're constantly sort of chasing their tails it's like the arms race with the bad guy so what is customer experience all about in the context of security? >> So our number one goal for our security customers is to accelerate their value realization so our challenge is to make sure that they get the value out of the product that they're buying because every minute of every day the bad guys are trying to get their assets and their IP and when they buy a technology the quicker you can get it up and running and protect the better it is for our customer. >> So how do you measure like value? It's like reducing the amount of data that you're exposed to losing? Is it increasing the cost of the bad guys getting in? 'cause if I'm a bad guy and it costs me more to get in I would maybe go somewhere else, how do you measure that? >> Right so, you're right, so our whole product strategy is to increase the cost for the bad guy to get the IP or the assets and so for us we have to understand what the value proposition is for our product so that the customers can realize that value, so whether it's tryna help them with the use cases or operationalize the product or in our case what we try to do we have both network users and security users we try to get both groups to adopt the technology and then expand it from there, operation centers to the guys that are doing the thread hunting to the investigations et cetera. So that's how we sort of gauge the value is the number of people that are using the technology and the number of use cases that are actually implemented. >> So we've been talking about security all week Stealthwatch obviously you know one of the flagship products Cisco security business grew 21% last quarter so that's kind of an interesting stat services is 25% of the companies revenue so you're the intersection of two pretty important places for Cisco so specifically when you come into a customer engagement who are you engaging with is it a multidisciplinary are you primarily dealing with the SecOps group or do you touch other parts of the organization? >> Yeah, so typically when a company's looking, it's usually they're looking for network visibility so we're dealing with the network architecture teams and they typically bring in the security architects 'cause today they're working hand in hand, and then from there that's where we say preach the gospel of Stealthwatch we always say you can never have enough Stealthwatch okay? Because you can never have enough visibility 'cause once you turn the lights on and they can see what's going on in their network it's very illuminating for them and then they realize the challenges that they have and what they have to do to protect their assets. >> Yeah I joked at Google Cloud Next it's like the cockroaches all scrambling you know for the corners when you turn the lights on and Stealthwatch at its core is you don't need a lot of fancy AI even though you can apply fancy AI but you start with the basics right? What do ya got, where are the gaps okay, so now once it's exposed what do you do with that information is the customer experience group come in and help implement it faster? That's part of the value so time to value to that? >> So time to value with our experts of course we understand the space we understand our product we understand the challenge and of course our network and security customers are overwhelmed you know the stat that they throw out there is that our large customers have anywhere from 50-100 security products so how do you stand out? So as a vendor our number one goal is to build that relationship with the customer to become the trusted security advisor so we know better than anybody how to get that value how to get it quickly and you know the number one problem that they have Dave is how to operationalize all these tools 'cause Stealthwatch sits in the middle we're a big integration platform we take data, telemetry, NetFlow from a lot of different products and we bring that data together to figure out, to help that customer figure out how to make sense of it update their policies create better policies and really tighten up their security posture. >> Okay so they might like to reduce the number of tools but they really can't right? 'cause their using 'em and so what you do is you bring in a layer to help manage that. >> Absolutely. >> But you're also solving a problem just in terms of exposing gaps and then do you also have tooling to fill those gaps? Or is that partners tools is that Stealthwatch? >> So we have our own what we call integration platform where we have a platform that helps integrate other, not only other Cisco security technologies into our platform but other security technologies as well outside of Cisco so you know it's a platform that we've built it's part of our customer experience sort of tool set but it's a tool set unlike anybody else ever has so that along with what we do with the DevNet group we've built our own set of API's to integrate in with the product API's so we can pump data out to data lakes we can pump data out to SIMS like Splunk and some of the others so you know that's where we are we're a solutions group that's what we do we work on the solutions, long term value you know we work on the lifecycle sort of value chain with customers. We're there with 'em the whole time you know our goal; retention, we want them to renew which means they're investing in us again and of course as Cloud, as their infrastructure is moving the the Cloud and our technologies are moving to the Cloud we have to be there to help them get through all those technology challenges. >> So the pricing model is a subscription model is that right? >> Yeah. >> Or can be or? >> Yes, well we call it term all right? But it's essentially subscription we have switched over the last 18 months from a perm to a term based model. >> Which I mean Chuck Robbins in the conference calls in the earnings calls talks about the importance of you know increasingly having a rateable model and recognizing subscription, so when you say a term so I got to what, sign up for a year, two years, three years or something like that? >> We like three yep. >> So who doesn't right? Okay so you sign up for three years but the price book says monthly I'm sure right so you (laughs) make it look smaller, but it makes sense though because you're not going to start stop, start stop with your security, you really want to get success out of it so you got to have some kind of commitment, let's talk a little bit more about the analytics side of it and how you're applying machine intelligence I mean there's always been some form of analytics largely for reporting and things of that nature but now it's getting more automated so take us on that analytics journey Stealthwatch has been around for what five years? >> 15 yeah over 15 years. >> 15? >> Ken: Yes, yes, yes. >> Oh wow maybe I just found out about it five years ago. >> (laughs) right yeah, not but I mean-- >> Dave: Take us back five years. >> Five years? So the big thing for us in the data that we collect is context. Right so you've talked to TK about the more context you can add to that data the better you are at analyzing that data so for us that's one of the things that we do we add a lot of context to that data through ICE so identity information, what kind of assets they are and that's where we get to through our tools add more context so that our analytical engines so like the cognitive thread analytics, the encrypted thread analytics that we have, that they're able to analyze that data a lot better and that's what we've been doing now for the past three plus years since we were acquired by Cisco is to find a way to add more context to the data so that helps our analytics become much more effective. >> And you can interact with through API's say for instance Splunk you mentioned that so you got that data that you can operate on do you see a point where the machines are actually going to plug the holes? I mean are we on the cusp of that? In other words you see a gap >> Right. >> Dave: Today a human has to take action correct? >> Yes, right, right, right. >> Do you see a point maybe it's two, three, five 10 years but are we going to get to that point? >> I think so down the line I mean because we've seen as we've been able to get better visibility and better context about that data we can make better decisions through the machine all right? So it doesn't take an army of people to read the matrix right, we're getting better at you know synthesizing that matrix down you take our network segmentation capabilities that we've built as part of the Stealthwatch customer experience team we can get to well over 90% identification of the assets on the network which is a lot better than anybody else in the industry all right? So we're getting there and through sort of the final stages of reading that metrics, reading the matrix we're getting to the point where we understand a lot more what's on peoples networks what those assets are. >> So as a security practitioner how do you think we're doing as an industry? I mean I used to go back every year and say okay how much was spent on security? are we more secure, less secure? And it felt like you know as data grew it felt like we were getting more and more and more exposed you've seen the stats where when a company gets infiltrated it takes on average you know 250 days for them to realize they've been infiltrated is that changing, are we getting better as an industry? >> I think in Cisco we are because of the products that we have in that integrated architecture so when we first joined three years ago that was the drum beat and now today we integrate with ICE we're going to integrate with next generation firewall through the integration of the sort of analytics that we've got in the Cloud that's happening right? And we're trying to integrate with other products but you know you go down on the floor and you see the number of point products that is a nightmare for our customers so for us through the customer experience in our organization we're there to take that complexity out and bring all of those technologies together and when you get to that point then you're really making progress with a customer, a customer that's got 50-100 products in the mix that's a recipe for disaster and if it's still like that five years from now customers are still going to be challenged. >> So a big part of your customer experience mission is simplification, speed time, time to value. >> Yes. >> Raise the cost to the bad guys and then do it all over again. >> Yeah, yeah it's just rinse and repeat and that's a life cycle journey and that's what we take our customers through right. >> Now I noticed you have on your phone you got the Bruins logo. >> That's right, right here proud. >> So big game tomorrow any predictions? >> 4-3 in overtime Bruins. >> Oh my God I don't think my heart could take that. >> Could you not take that Dave? It's going to be an overtime game. >> Well it's you know it's rare to have a game seven in any, at the very final one, a lot of game sevens but not to win it all I think the last time at Boston was 1984. >> Ken: Is that right? >> Yeah it's been a long time, so you know I'm excited. >> I know you are (laughs) that's right. >> Warriors fans too we got that thing going out I mean I don't know for all you hoop fans out there so, >> Hopefully there's a game seven for that as well. >> Yeah let's go right, why not? >> Why not, game seven all round. >> All right so Chara is going to play with his broken jaw or whatever's going on. >> Matt Grzelcyk I hope is back. >> Dave: Yeah that would be key. >> That would be key yeah so, >> Dave: sure up the defense >> That's right. (crosstalk) >> Ken: He's a plus minus leader Chara. >> Oh yeah. >> That's right all time. >> Even though we give him a lot of grief. (laughter) he may look slow but he's all time plus minus leader. >> All right Kenny hey thanks so much-- >> All right Dave thanks for having me on all right go Bruins. >> All right keep it right there everybody go Bruins we will be right back Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman and Lisa Martin we're live from Cisco Live in San Diego you're watching theCUBE. (electronic jingle)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Google Cloud Next 19. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its eco system partners. >> Hello everyone welcome back here to theCUBE live coverage here in San Francisco, California. We're in the Moscone Center on the ground floor here. Day three of three days of coverage for Google Cloud Next 2019. I'm John Furrier, my co-host, Dave Vellante, Stew Miniman out there getting stories out there He's also been hosting. Dave, great to see you! Evren, Director of Product Management at Google Cloud, doing all the data streaming the data. We're streaming data right now. >> Absolutely, this is it. This is it. >> So let's stream some data. So streaming data has certainly been around for awhile. Dave and I when we first started theCUBE ten years ago, it was part of Silk and Angle Media hadoop was just a small little project. That really kind of was the catalyst moment for around big data that's now evolved to it's own position. Now you have streaming data, you have cloud scale, the Cloud has really changed the game on big data. Changed the nature and dynamics of it and one of the things is streaming data, streaming analytics as a core value proposition for enterprises, and this is fairly new. >> Very true. >> What's your take on it and how does it relate to what's going on with Google Cloud? >> I am glad we're talking about that. This is an exciting time for us. Streaming like you said is growing. Batch is not going away, but streaming is actually overtaking a lot of the applications that we're seeing. Today we're seeing more streaming applications taking place than batch. One of the things that we're seeing is everybody is gathering data from all over the place from your websites, from your mobile phones, from your IoT devices, just like we're doing right now. There's data coming in and people want to make decisions real time whether it's in the banking industry, in your healthcare, retail, it doesn't matter which word cycle you're working with and we're seeing how those messages how those events are coming in and where the decisions are being made real time, milliseconds we're talking about. >> Why is it happening, what's the real catalyst here? Just tsunami of data, nature of the value, all of the above, what's the? >> We believe one of the things is like you mentioned Cloud really changed the game. Where people actually can reach globally data and messages at scale. We're talking about billions of messages coming in and processing capacity is available now we can actually process it and make a decision within milliseconds and get to the results. To me, that was the biggest catalyst. And we're seeing many of us have grown up using batch data, making decisions now everybody is talking about M.L. and A.I. You need that data coming in real time and we can actual process it and make the decision. To me, that's the catalyst. >> First of all we love streaming data, this topic. One we believe streaming where shooting video but data, real time, has been one of the keys you see self driving cars monging of data, mixing and matching of data to get better signal and better machine learning and I got to ask you, because batch is certainly the role for batch is kind of old school it's some old techniques it's been around for awhile, >> It's not going to go away though. >> It's not going to go away it's established it's place but the knee jerk reaction of existing old school people who haven't migrated to the new modern version they go to the batch kind of mind set. I want to get you're reaction. Data lakes, there's nothing flowing in a lake. Okay, so there is a role for a data lake streaming gives me the impression of like an ocean or a river or something moving fast. Talk about the differences because it's not just the data lake okay that's a batch kind of reaction. >> It is a complementary. Actually it's not going away because all of that data that we had in the back is something we're relying on to really augment and see what's changing. So if you're in a retail house you're buying something, you're going to make a decision and your support is actually behind it. OK here's Evren, he's actually shopping around this and he wants this for his son. That's what the models built around it is looking at what is my behavior and in the moment making a decision for me. So that's not going away. The other thing is batch users are able to take advantage of the technology today. If you look at our data flow, same set of codes, same set of capability can be used by the same folks that are used to batch. You don't have to change anything so that actually we help folks to be up skilled using the same set of tools and become much more experienced and experts in the streaming too. That's not going away we help both of the worlds. >> So, complementary. >> Very complementary. >> So data lakes are good for kind of setting the table if you have to store it somewhere but that's not the end game though. >> No. >> Okay. >> I wonder if we could talk about the evolution from batch to real time streaming. And my favorite example, because I think people can relate to it, is fraud detection. Ten years ago, it was up to the user to go through his or her bill, right? And then you started to get inundated with false positives, and now lately, last couple of years it's getting better and better. Fewer false positives, usually when you usually no news is good news. News is usually bad news now, so take that example and use that to describe how things have evolved. >> I am a student of AI I did my Master's and PhD in that and I went through that change in my career because we had to collect the data, batch it and analyze it, and actually make a decision about it and we had a lot of false positives and in some cases some negative misses too which you don't want that either. And what happened is our modeling capabilities became much better. With this rich data, and you actually tap into that data lake, you can go in there the data is there, and this is spread data we can pull in data from different sources and actually remove the outliers and make our decision real time right there. We didn't have the processing capability we didn't have a place like PostUp where globic can scan and bring in data at hundreds of gigabytes of data. That's messaging you want to deal with at scale no matter where it is and process that, that wasn't available for us. Now it's available it's like a candy shelf for technologists, all the technology is in our hands and we wanted all these things. >> You were talking about I think the simplicity of, I'm able to use my batch processes and apply them. One of the complaints I hear from developers sometimes is that the data pipeline is getting so complicated. You were talking about you're grabbing stuff from websites, from financial databases, and so depending on what data store you're using and what streaming tools you're using or other A.I. tools, the pipeline gets very complicated the A.P.Is start to get complicated but I'm hearing a story of simplicity. Can you elaborate on that and add some color? >> Yeah I'm glad you're asking that question you may have heard, yesterday we announced a whole bunch of new things and ease of use is the top of the line for us. Really are trying to make it easy. If you look at this eco pipeline we're building with data flow, it helps you end to end. Data engineered no matter which angle their coming in should be able to use their known skill sets and be able to build their pipelines end to end so that you can achieve your goals around streaming. We aren't really having to go through a lot of the clusters of the pipelines we are going to continue to push that ease of use over and over, we're not going to let it go because make it easier, everyone will adapt it faster. >> You mentioned you got a PhD in A.I., Master's in A.I., A.I. has been around for awhile. A lot of people have been saying that but machine learning certainly has changed the game. Machine learning plus cloud has been a real accelerant in the academic and now commercial aspects of A.I. So I want to get your thoughts on the notion of scale which you talk about, plus the diversity of data. So if you can bring in data at scale get more signaling points more access to data signaling the diversity of data becomes very key. But cleanliness, data cleaning, used to be an old practice of you get a bunch of data, stack it up, put it in a pile corpus, and you kind of go clean it. With streaming, if it's always flowing there's kind of a behavioral characteristic of data cleanliness, data monitoring, talk about that diversity of data clean data and how that feeds machine learning and makes better A.I. >> Good one, so that's where we actually are able to, if you look at PostUp, you're building joint your table set of datas with streaming set of datas you can actually put it into data filter it and make those analyses. And within both, we provide enough of a window for you to be able to go back, hey are there things that I should be looking at, up to seven days we can provide a snapshot because you will always find something you can go back, you know what I'm going to remove this outlier. All worrying about all the processing we do before we bring in the data so there's a lot of cleanliness that takes place but we have the built in tools we have the built in capabilities for everyone to get going. It's ready to scale for you from the moment you open it up. That's the beauty of it, that's the beauty of when you start from PostUp to data flow to streaming engine it's ready for you to run. >> Talk about what's changed though when people hear diversity of data they get scared, oh my god I work, heavy lifting. Now it's a benefit. What's easier now to deal with all of these diverse data sets, what's the easy revolution? >> So do you remember the big V's of big data right? Volume, velocity, variety. People were scared about the variety. Now I can actually bring in my data from different places. Again, let's go back to the shopping example. Where I shop, what I shop for, that actually defines my behavior around it. Those data sit somewhere else. We bring those in to make a decision about okay everyone wants to go buy a scooter or whatever else, that's the diversity of the data. We're now able to deal to with this at scale. That was not available we could actually bring in and render this, now everything is going to do this much more sequential. We're now able to bring all of them together process it at the same time and make the decision. >> What's the key products that will make all of those happen, take us through the portfolio if I want that would you just said which is a great value. It sounds like not a heavy lift all I have to do is point the data sources into this engine, what are the products that make up that capability? >> So if I look at the overall portfolio on Google Cloud from our data analysts point of view, so you actually can bring in your data through PostUp, lots of messaging capability globally and you can actually do it regionally because we have a lot of regional requirements coming from various countries and data flow is where we actually transfer the data. That's where you do the processing. And you use all of these advance analytics capabilities through your streaming engine that we released and you have your B query, you have your OMLs, you have all kinds of things that you can bring in you're big tables and what have you. That's all easily integrated end to end for any analyst to be able to use. >> What is beam? >> Beam ah that's great I'm so glad you asked that question I almost forgot! Beam is one of our open sources we donated the same set, just like we did with Koppernes few years ago, we donated to the open source it's growing. This year actually it won The Technology Awards. So the source is open the community really took it upon, they use that toolkit to build their pipelines you can use any kind of a code that you want Java, Gold, whatever you want to do it and they contribute. We use it internally and externally. It's one of those things that's going to grow. We have a lot of community events coming up this year. We might, and I've seen the increase, I'm really really proud of that community. >> Evren, I love the A.I. can't get my mind off your background and academic because I studied A.I. as well in the 80s and 90s all that good stuff. Young kids are flocking to computer science now because A.I. is very sexy, it's very intoxicating and it's so easy to deal with now. You guys had a hack-a-thon here with NCAA using data really kind of real time and kind of cool things are happening. So it's a moment now for A.I. this is the moment. What's your advice, you've been through the wars you've done your chore duty all those years now it's actually happening. What's your advice for young people who want to come in, get their hands dirty, build things, use A.I., what's your advice, how they should tackle that? >> I am living it, both of my sons one is finishing junior high, the other one is a senior in high school, their both in it. So when I hear my young kids come and say, "hey bubba we just built this using transfer flow." Like it is making me really proud. At the middle school level they were doing it. So the good news is we have all of this publicly available data for them. I encourage every one of them. If you look at what we provide from Google Cloud, you come in there, we have the data for them, we have the tools for them, it's all ready for them to play so schools get free access to it too. >> It's a major culture but how do they get someone who's interested but never coded before, how do they jump right in and get ingratiated and immersed into the code, what do they do? >> We have some community reaches that we're actually doing as Google. We go out to them and we're actually establishing centers to really build community events for them to really learn some new skills. And we're making this easy for them. And I'm happy to hear more and do it, but I'm an advocate I go to middle schools, I go to high schools, I go to colleges. Colleges are a different story. We provide school classes and we provide our technologies at the universities because enterprises need that talent, need that skill, when they graduate, their going to hire them just like I'm going to hire them into my organization. >> So my number one complaint my kids have about school, they're talking about kids that, oh school's going to be a waste it's so linear I can learn everything on YouTube and Google.com. All the stuff I learned in school I'm never going to use in the real world. So the question is, what skill should kids learn that could be applied to machine learning, thinking, the kind of constructs, data structures, or methodologies, what are some of the skills and classes that can tease out and be natural lead into computer science and machine learning A.I.? >> You know, actually their going to build up the skills. The languages will evolve and so forth. As long as they have that inner curiosity asking new questions, how can I find the answer a little faster, that will push them towards different sets of tools, different sets of areas. If you go to Berkeley in here, you will see a whole bunch of high school kids working side by side with graduate students asking those questions, developing those skill sets, but it's all coming down to their curiosity. >> And I think that applies for business too. I mean there's a big gap between the A.I. haves and have-nots I always say. And the good news here that my take away is, you're going to buy A.I, you're going to buy it from people like Google and you're going to build it and apply it, you're going to spend time applying it, and that's how these incumbents can close the gap and that's the good news here. >> Very true if you look at it, look at all the A.P.Is that we have. From text recognition to image recognition to whatever it is, those are all built models and I've seen some customers build some fantastic applications starting from there and they use their own data, bring it in, they update their model for their own businesses cases. >> It's composition it's composing. It's not coding it's composing. >> Exactly, it's composing. We are taking it to the next level. That abstraction is going to actually help others come into the field because they know their field of expertise, they can ask direct questions. You and I may not know it but, they will ask direct questions. And they will go with the tools available for them for the curiosity that they reach. >> Okay what's the coolest thing you're working on right now? >> Coolest thing, I just y'know streaming is my baby. We are working on, I want to solve all the streaming challenges, whatever the industry is. I really want to welcome everyone, bring you to us. I think, if I look at it, one of the things we discussed today was Antos was fantastic right? I mean we're really going to change the game for all enterprises to be able to provide those capabilities at the infrastructure. But imagine what we can do with all the data analytics capabilities we have on top of it. I think this is the next five years is going to be fantastic for us. >> What's the coolest use case thing you see emerging out of streaming? >> Ah you know, yesterday I actually had one of my clients with me onstage, AB Tasty. They had a fantastic capability that they built. They tried everything. And we were not their first choice, I'll be very open. They said the same thing to everybody, you guys were not our first choice. They went around, they looked at all the tool kits, everything. They came they used PostUp, they used data flow, they used engine, streaming engine. And they AB testing for marketing. And they do that at scale, billions of messages every minute, and they do it within seconds, milliseconds, 32 milliseconds at most. Because they have to make the decision. That was awesome, go check. I don't know if you're familiar with that. One of our customers, they provide these real time delivery. In India, imagine where things are. In global leaders, you can actually ask for a food to be delivered and they have to optimize, depending on what the traffic is and go with their scooters, and provide you this delivery. They aren't doing it as well. Okato, they believe, provide food in UK 70% of the population use our technologies for real time delivery. Those are some great examples. >> Evren, great insight, great to have you on. Just a final word here, next couple years, how do you see the trajectory of machine learning A.I. Analytics feeding into the value of making life easier society better, and businesses more productive? >> We are seeing really good pull from enterprises from every archival that you can think of. Regulated, retail, what have you. And we're going to solve some really hard problems whether it's in health care industry, financial industry, retail industry, we're going to make lives of people much easier. And their going to benefit from it at scale. And I believe we're just scratching the tip of it and you're seeing this energy in here. Year over year this has gotten better and better. I can't wait to see what's going to happen next year. >> Evren Eryurek great energy, expert at A.Is, streaming analytics, again this is early days of a brand new shift that's happening. You get on the right side of history it's A.I. machine learning, streaming analysts. Thanks for coming, I appreciate it. >> Thank you so much, take care guys. >> More live coverage here in theCUBE in San Francisco at Google next Cloud 2019. We'll be back after this short break.

>> Live from San Francisco. It's the Cube. Covering Google Cloud Next '19. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back, everyone, we're your live coverage with the Cube here in San Francisco for Google Cloud Next 2019. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Stu Miniman. I've got two great guests here from Google. Guemmy Kim, who's a group product manager for Google, Google Security Access and Christiaan Brand, Product Manager at Google. Talking about the security key, fallen as your security key and security in general. Thanks for joining us. >> Of course, thanks for having us. >> So, actually security's the hottest topic in Cloud and any world these days, but you guys have innovation and news, so first let's get the news out of the way. All the work, giz, mottos, all of the blogs have picked it up. >> [Christiaan Brand] Right. >> Security key, titan, tell us. >> [Christiaan Brand] Okay, sure. Uh, high votes on Christiaan. So uh, last year and next we introduced the Titan Security Key which is the strongest form of multifactor certification we offer at Google. Uh, this little kind of gizmo protects you against most of the common phishing threats online. We think that's the number one problem these days. About 81% of account breaches was as a result of phishing or bad passwords. So passwords are really becoming a problem. This old man stat uh making sure that not only do you enter your password, you also need to present this little thing at the point in time when you're logging in. But it does something more, this also makes sure that you're interacting with a legitimate website at the point in time when you're trying to log in. Easy for users to fool victim to phishing, because the site looks legitimate, you enter your username and password, bad guy gets all of it. Security key makes sure that you're interacting with a legitimate website and it will not give away it's secrets, without that assurance that you're not interacting with a phishing website. >> [Christiaan Brand] News this week though is saying that these things are really cool and we recommend users use them. Uh, especially if you're like a high-risk individual or maybe an enterprise user or acts sensitive data you know Google call admin. But what we're really doing this week is we are saying "okay this is cool" but the convenience aspect has been a bit lacking right? Uh, I have to carry this with me if I want to sign in. This week we are saying this mobile phone, now also does the exact same thing as the Security Key. Gives you that level of assurance, making sure you're not interacting with the phishing website and the way we do that is by establishing a local Bluetooth link between the device you're signing in on and the mobile phone. It works on any Android N so Android 7 and later devices this week. Uh and essentially all you need is a Google account and a device with Bluetooth capability to make that work. >> Alright, so, we come to a show like this and a lot of people we geek out as like okay what are the security places that we are going to button, the cloud, and all of these environments. We are actually going to talk about something that I think most people understand is okay I don't care what policies and software you put in place, but the actual person actually needs to be responsible and did you think about things? Explain a little bit what you do, and the security pieces that you know individuals need to be thinking about and how you help them and recommend for them that they can be more secure. >> In general, yeah, I think one of the things that we see from talking to real users and customers is that people tend to underestimate the risks that they are under. And so, we've talked to people like people in the admin space or people who are in the political space and other customers of Google cloud. And they are like, why do I even need to protect my account? And like, we actually had to go and do a lot of education to actually show them that they're actually in much higher risk than they think they are. One of the things that we've seen over time, is phishing obviously is one of the most effective ways that people's accounts get compromised and you have over 70% of organizations saying that they have been victims of phishing in the last year. Then the question is, how do we actually then reduce the phishing that's happening? Because at the end of the day, the humans that are in your organization are going to be your weakest link. And over time, I think that the phishers do recognize that and they'll employ very sophisticated techniques and to try to do that. And so what we tried to do on our end is what can we do on from an algorithmic and automatic and machine side to actually catch things that human eye can't catch and Security Key is definitely one of those things. Also employed with a bunch of other like anti-phishing, anti-spear phishing type things that we will do as well. >> This is important because one of the big cloud admin problems has been human misconfiguration. >> Yeah. >> And we've seen that a lot on Amazon S3 Buckets, and they now passed practices for that but this has become just a human problem. Talk about what you guys are doing to help solve that because if I got router, server access I can't, I don't want to be sharing passwords, that's kind of of a past practices but what other tech can I put in place? What are you guys offering to give me some confidence if I'm going to be using Google cloud. >> Yeah well, I think one of the things is that as much as you can educate your workforce to do the right things like do they recognize phishing emails? Do they recognize that uh, you know this email that is coming from somebody who claims is the CEO, isn't and some of these other techniques people are using. Uh again, like there's human fallacy, there's also things that are just impossible for humans to detect. But fortunately, especially with our Cloud Services, we have very advanced techniques that administrators can actually turn on and enforce for all of the users. And this includes everything from advanced, you know malware and phishing detection techniques to things like enforcing security keys across your organization. And so we're giving administrators that power to actually say, it's not actually up to individual users, I'm actually going to put on these much stronger controls and make it available to everybody at my organization. >> And you guys see a lot of data so you have a lot of collective intelligence across a lot of signals. I mean spear phishing is the worst, it's like phishing is hard to solve. >> [Christiaan Brand] If you think about we have a demo over here just a couple of steps to the right here uh, where we take users through kind of what phishing looks like. Uh, we say that over 99.99% of kind of those types of attack will never even make it through right? The problem is spear phishing as you said, when someone is targeting a specific individual at one company. At that point, we might have not seen those signals before uh that's really where something like a Security Key kind of comes in. >> That's totally right. >> [Christiaan Brand] At that very last line of defense and that's basically what we are targeting here that .1% of users. >> Spear phishing is the most effective because it's highly targeted, no patter recognition. >> Yeah >> So question, one of the things I like we are talking about here is we need to make it easier for users to stay secure. You see, too often, it's like we have all these policies in place and use the VPN and it's like uh forget it, I'm going to use my second phone or log in over here or let me take my files over here and work on them over here and oh my gosh I've just bypassed all of the policy we put in place because you know, how do you just fundamentally think about the product needs to be simple, and it needs to be what the user needs not just the corporate security mandate? >> Yeah, I mean that's a great question. At Google we actually try a nearly completely different way of like kind of access to organizational networks. Like, for example Google kind of deprecated the VPN. Right? So for our employees if we want to access data uh on the company network, we don't use VPNs anymore we have something called kind of BeyondCorp that's like more of a kind of overarching principle than a specific technology. Although we see a lot of companies, even at the show this year that doing kind of technology and product based on that principle of zero trust or BeyondCorp. That makes it really easy for users to interact with services wherever they are and it's all based on trust on the endpoint rather than trust on the network, right? What we've seen is data breaches and things happen you know? Malicious software crawls into a network and from that point it has access to all of the crown jewels. What we are trying to say is like nowhere in being at a privilege point in the network gives you any elevated access. The elevated access is in the context that your device has, the fact that is has a screen lock, the fact that it's maybe issued by your corporation, the fact that it's approved, I don't know, the fact that is has drive instruction turned on, uh you know it's coming from a certain you know location. Those are all kind of contextual signals that we use to make up this uh, you know, our installation of BeyondCorp. This is being offered to customers today, Security Keys again, plays a vital part in all of that. Uh, you know there's trust in the end point, but there's also trust in authentication. If the user is really who they say they are, uh and this kind of gives us that elevated level of trust. >> I think this is a modern approach, that I think is worth highlighting because the old days we had a parameter, access methods were simply, you know, access servers authenticated in and you're in. But you nailed, I think the key point which is: If you don't trust anything and you just say everything is not trustworthy, you need multi-factor authentication. Now, this is the big topic in the industry because architecturally you have to be set up for it, culturally you got to buy into it. So kind of two dimensions of complexity, plus you're going down a whole new road. So you guys must do a lot more than just two factor, three factor, you got to imbed it into the phone. It could be facial recognition, it could be your patterns. So talk about what MFA, Multi-factor Authentication, how's it evolving and how fast is MFA evolving? >> Well, I think the point that you brought up earlier, that it actually has to be usable. And when I look at usability, it has to work for both your end users as well as the idea administrators who are uh putting these on for the systems and we look at both. Uh, so that's actually why we are very excited about things like the built in security key that's on your phone that we launched because it actually is that step to saying how can you take the phone that you already have that users are already familiar using, and then put it into this technology that's like super secure and that most users weren't familiar with before. And so it's concepts like that were we try to merry. Uh, that being said, we've also developed other kind of second factors specific for enterprises in the last year. For example, we are looking at things like your employee ID, like how can an organization actually use that were an outside attacker doesn't have access to that kind of information and it helps to keep you secure. So we are constantly looking at, especially for enterprises, like how do we actually do more and more things that are tailored for usability for both support cause, for the IT organization, as well as the end users themselves. >> Maybe just to add to that, I think the technology, security keys, even in the way that it's being configured today which is built into your phone, that's going into the right direction, it's making things easier. But, I think we still think there's a lot that can be done uh to really bring this technology to the end consumer at some point. So, we kind of have our own interval roadmap, we are working towards in making it even easier. So hopefully, by the time we sit here next year, we can share some more innovations on how this has just become part of everyday life for most users, without them really realizing it. >> More aware of all brain waves, whatever. >> Full story. Yup, yup, yup. >> One of the things that really I think struck a cord with a lot of people in the Keynote was Google Cloud's policy on privacy. Talk about, you on your data, we don't uh you know, some might look and say well uh I'm familiar with some of the consumer you know, ads and search and things like that. And if I think about the discussion of security as a corporate employee is oh my gosh they're going to track everything I am doing, and monitoring everything I need to have my privacy but I still want to be secure. How do you strike that balance and product and working with customers to make sure that they're not living in some authoritarian state, where every second they're monitored? >> That's a good question. Kim if you want to take that, if not I'm happy to do. >> Go ahead. >> Alright, so that is a great question. And I think this year we've really try to emphasize that point and take it home. Google has a big advertising business as everyone knows. We are trying to make the point this year, to say that these two things are separate. If you bring your data to Google Cloud, it's your data, you put that in there. The only way that data would kind of be I guess used is with the terms of service that you signed up for. And those terms of service states: it's your data, it'll be access the way that you want it to be access. And we are going one step further with access transparency this year alright. We have known something where we say well even if a Google user or Googler or Google employee needs access to that data on your behalf, lets say you have a problem with storage buckets, right, something is corrupted. You call uh support and say hey please help me fix this. There will be a near real time log that you can look at which will tell you every single access and basically this is the technology uh we've had in production for quite some time internally at Google. If someone needs to look... >> Look at the data. >> Right, exactly right if I need to look at some you know customers data, because they followed the ticket and there's some problem. These things are stringently long, access is extremely oriented, it's not that someone can just go in and look at data anywhere and the same thing applies to Cloud. It has always applied to Cloud but this year we are exposing that to the user in these kind of transparency reports making sure that the user is absolutely aware of who's accessing their data and for which reason. >> And that's a trust issue as well, it's not just using the check and giving them the benefit... >> [Christiaan Brand] Absolutely. >> But it's basically giving them a trust equation saying look they'll be no God handle access... >> Right, right, exactly. >> You heard with Uber and these other stories that are on the web, and that's huge for you guys. I mean internally just you guys are hardcore on this and you hear this all the time. >> Yeah uh >> Separate building, Sunnyvale... >> No, not separate building. But you know uh, so I've worked in privacy as well for a number of years and I'm actually very proud like as a company I feel like we actually have pushed the floor front on how privacy principles actually should be applied to the technology uh and for examples we have been working very collaboratively with regulators around the world, cause their interest is in protecting the businesses and the citizens kind of for their various countries. And uh we definitely have a commitment to make sure that you know, whether it's organization's or individuals like their privacy actually is protected, the data is secure, and certainly the whole process of how we develop products at Google like there's definitely privacy checkpoints in place so that we're doing the right thing with that data. >> Yeah, I can say I've been following Google for a long time. You guys sometimes got a bad rep because it's easy to attack Google and you guys to a great job with privacy. You pay attention to it and you have the technology, you don't just kind of talk about it. You actually implement it and you dog food it as to or you eat and drink your own champagne. I mean that's how bore became, started became Kubernetes you know? And Spanner was internal first and then became out here. This is the trend that Google, the same trend that you guys are doing with the phones, testing it out internally to see if it works. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Absolutely right, so Security Keys will start there like we uh Krebs published an article last year, just before the event saying we had zero incidents of possible phishers with Googlers since they deploying the technology. We had this inside Google for a long time, and it was kind of born out of necessity, right. We knew there was positive phishing was a problem, even Googlers fall for this kind of thing. It's impossible to train your users not to fall for this type of scam, it just is right. We can view any location all we want, but in the end like we need technology to better protect the user, even your employees. So that's were we started deploying this technology, then we said we want to go one step further. We want to kind of implement this on the mobile phone, so we've been testing this technology internally uh for quite a few months. Uh, kind of making sure that things are shaping out. We released this new beta this week uh so it's not a J product quite yet. Uh, you know as you know there is Bluetooth, there is Chrome, there is Android, there's quite a few things involved. Android Ecosystem is kind of a little bit fragmented, right, there is many OEMs. We want to make this technology available to everyone, everyone who has an Android phone, so we are kind of working on the last little things but we think the technology is in a pretty good place after doing this "drinking of champagne." >> So it's got to be bulletproof. So now, on the current news just to get back to the current news, the phone, the Android phone that has a security key is available or is it data that is available? >> [Christiaan Brand] So it's interesting. In on the Cloud side, the way that we normally launch products there is we do an alpha, which is kind of like a closed liked selection. The moment that we move and do beta, beta is open, anyone can deploy it but it has certain like terms of service limitation and other things. Which says hey don't rely on this as your sole way of accessing an account. For example, if you happening to try and sign in on a device that doesn't have Bluetooth the technology clearly will not work. So we're saying please make sure you have a backup, please keep a physical security key for the time being. But start using this technology, we think for the most popular platforms it should be well shaken out. But beta is more of a designation that we kind of reserve for saying we're starting... >> You're setting expectations. >> But also, one thing I want to clarify that just because it's in beta it doesn't mean it less secure. The worst thing that will happen is that you can be locked out of your account because you know, the Bluetooth could fail to communicate or other things like that. So I want to assure people, even though it's beta you can use it, your account is secure. >> Google has the beta kind of uh which means you either take it out to a select group of people or set expectations on terms of service. >> Right. >> Just to kind of keep an eye on it. But just to clarify, which phones again are available for the Android? >> [Christiaan Brand] Uh, we wanted to make sure that we cover as large a population as possible, so we kind of have to look at the trade offs, you know at which point in time we make this available going forward. Uh, we wanted to make sure that we cover more than 50% of the Android devices out there today. That level that we wanted to reach, kind of coincided with the Android 7, Android Nougat, is kind of the line that we've drawn. Anything Android 7 and above, it doesn't have to be a Pixel phone, it doesn't have to a Nexus phone, it doesn't have to a Samsung phone, any phone 7 and up should work with the technology. Uh and there's a little special treat for folks that have a Pixel 3 as you alluded to earlier we have the Titan M chip that we announced last year in Pixel. There we actually make use of this cryptographic chip but on other devices you have the same technology and you have the same assurance. >> Well certainly an exciting area both on from a device standpoint, everybody loves to geek out on the new phones as Google I know is coming up I'm sure it'll be a fun time to talk about that. But overall, on Cloud security is number one, access, human, errors, fixing those, automating, a very important area. So we're going to be keeping track of what's going on, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks. >> And sharing your insight, I appreciate it. >> Of course, thanks for having us. >> Okay, live Cube coverage here in San Francisco. More after this short break. Here Day 3 of 3 days of wall-to-wall coverage. I'm John Furrier and Stu Miniman, stay with us, we'll be back after this short break. (energetic music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next '19. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi everyone, welcome back to the third day of live coverage of theCUBE here in San Francisco for Google Cloud Next 2019. I'm John Furrier, the host of theCUBE, my co-host Stu Miniman, Stu, good to see you this morning. >> Great to see you, John. >> Got a very special guest here, George Kurian, the CEO of NetApp, not to be confused with Thomas Kurian, his twin brother, who's the CEO of Google Cloud, George, it's great to see you. >> Good morning. >> Thanks for stopping by. >> Thank you for having me. >> So, when you've been walking through the hallways, you getting like, a lot of looks and some selfies, um, people want to take a selfie with you, thinking you're Thomas, the famous? >> Quite a few, quite a few. >> So what's it like? >> Oh, it's exciting to see all of the innovation here and the real commitment that Google's made to building out an enterprise platform. We've been working with them for many years, and, uh, we're excited at all of the potential new opportunities that creates, alongside Google's customers and ours. >> Yeah, George, it's got to be interesting, it's almost a little bit of a mirror image, is Google is looking to get deeper into the enterprise, and of course we've been documenting NetApp for many years now, has moved beyond just being an enterprise company, you've been moving to the cloud, maybe, just go back, tell us a little bit- some of the lessons you've learned, and, you know, what you're seeing happen, dynamics in the space. >> I think customers, Thomas said, you know, many of the core tenets that we see which is customers want to operate in a hybrid, multi-cloud world. They want to have cloud technology integrated into their data centers and conversely their applications be portable with a common programming model. I think it's come a long way. You know, I think our technologies now available natively in the Google Cloud, I think the programming model with microservices and containers, and with Kubernetes as an orchestration layer, truly allows, you know, this kind of hybrid world to operate, and I think our opportunity there is to help our customers use data properly across all of these landscapes, understand where it is, you know, orchestrate new applications as well as traditional, uh, so that they can progress the business. And so it's, you know I tell you coming to these conferences over the last three to five years, you can see the pace of change really start to accelerate. I'm interested in what you guys think about. >> Well, one of the things we've been commenting on theCUBE in our opening segments is kind of looking at how the transformation of Google Cloud from Google large-scale, they know data, they know tech, into becoming an enterprise, so, a lot of window dressing around the event, you know, digital transformation, all the right words, but they got the technology. And, you know, one of the things I'd love to get your perspective of because it's not- it's no secret that the Kurian brothers, yourself and your brother, Thomas, are, have great tech chops, also have tons of enterprise experiences, you specifically have been involved in a lot of ecosystems. That's been a big topic here. Can Google really get an ecosystem up and running, I mean, they participated in the CNCF with Cloud Native, but, as an organization, this is something that you're very familiar with, uh, at NetApp, you've been in many ecosystems, you've seen the formula. How, how, how should that evolve, because it's changing, the service's base, I think you're part of the Console Google Cloud from what I've been reporting here. What's the ecosystem formula for, for this new cloud world? >> You know, I'll tell you that, uh, enterprises expect their providers to work together, that's always been the expectation, and, uh, we've had to coexist with even our competitors for a long period of time. I think the core ideas there are to keep the customer at the center of the discussion and figure out how to best solve their problems, regardless of whether it is having to coexist with someone else, right? I think what's been interesting to me is, Linux has really become sort of the core underpinning of the cloud, and Linux was an open-source technology that, in the early years, IBM backed and sponsored. I think containers together with uh, you know, what Google's doing to sponsor it, has really become the opportunity to create the next, kind of layer of, you know, common development model, programming model, common orchestration. I think there's that promise, I think, uh, it's got to be realized. >> George, you, uh, you talked about, uh, the change that we see in the industry, and, you know, we know enterprise is not like, oh, let's just redo everything we were doing, whether I'm a five year old or a, you know, hundred and fifty year old company, I have things that I need to look at, and, I mean, the applications are really tough. It'd be wonderful if I just had a clean sheet of paper, and I can make it all serverless or containerize all my pieces there. Um, the message I heard a lot this week is, you know, meeting customers where they are. It's not just, Google we know has great tech, and smart people, maybe a little too smart sometimes, but, you know, I'd love to hear your viewpoint is, you know, those enterprise customers, are they catching up to the pace of innovation faster and making more change, or, you know, is it still one of these things that we're going to measure in decades as to how long it takes to move things. >> I think it, you know, I see it in a couple of, uh, ways. One is which industry are you in, and the impact of, you know, transformation to your industry. I think if you are in a highly digitally-oriented industry, like media and entertainment, you've got to transform quickly because the whole industry's getting transformed, right? I think conversely, if you're in an industry where digitization helps your workforce be more productive, I think you can take more time. What we see also is, in the places that, uh, are common, for example, in how you evolve your customer experience and how you interact with customers, we see virtually every company needing to transform, right? So I see that, you know, this is a long transformation, it's not going to happen overnight. I think that customers will pragmatically choose to, you know, either refactor existing applications or bill Net New, on a case-by-case, business-process by business-process basis. And that's why we see hybrid, sort of being the de facto operating model. >> George, I want to get your thoughts on multi-cloud and hybrid, obviously the modern application renaissance and revolutions kind of happening, whether you call it a renaissance or revolution, applications are exploding. That's clear. Multi-cloud and hybrid-cloud are key architectural shifts. I'm writing a story right now about the Department of Defense big contract that was awarded to, or to, shorthand, Microsoft and AWS. But, one of the things that have people arguing is that it should be multi-cloud! Now, the Department of Defense is an example, and this is public sector, but also enterprises have the same makeup, they have hundreds of cloud projects. Hundreds! And the Department of Defense is five hundred cloud projects. So there's not one cloud, that's not Amazon. So, this is a world where workloads and cloud selection and the parts of the architecture have to support multiple clouds. Can you explain that, kind of, what that means to customers? Because people get often confused coming from the old way. I'm buying IBM, I'm buying Oracle, I'm buying Google Cloud, and we're done. No, it's really not that case. Can you, kind of, can you react to that? >> Most enterprises that we speak to have hundreds of applications, everything from, you know, mainframe-based core business processing, to highly digital, you know, mobile-based, customer interaction applications. I think they have, sort of, a portfolio approach to manage those, where they say, hey, some of those are going to stay on premise, some of those are going to stay in a private cloud, and then I've got this palette of, you know, choices around whether I choose software as a service or infrastructure or platform as a service. And I think that when you look at a, you know, a reasonably large company like ours, we run about five hundred applications in the company. There's no single palette, right? You've got to have these inter-operate, I think from a governance standpoint from how you integrate the data across these landscapes, and from how you ensure compliance, security, and so on. And I, so I think, you know whenever a company tries to say that I can do everything, I think that's a little bit facetious, to be honest. >> And so, the reality is, multiple workloads, multiple cloud projects will happen, multiple vendors, but in a new way. Workload driven, with the data, obviously the data's critical, storage is key. Um, Stu, you want to- >> Yeah, so, you know, I think back to the storage world, storage was always a fragmented marketplace, and I had my application silos that I, that did this. Now, what have we learned from multi-cloud, that would, from multi-vendor, as we go into multi-cloud and, how can we allow customers to really unlock that value of data, because if it all stays fragmented in silos, it's a lot harder to be able to actually leverage it, use it, for all the, you know, AI, ML, or data, uh, value. >> Absolutely, I think, you know, one of the long-term theses we've had is that the world gradually moves from system-centric or process-centric to a data-centric world where the core asset that you're operating on is not the value of an individual business process, but the integration across your business processes, right? And so, this is why we think in a hybrid world, you need something like a data fabric to stitch together all of these landscapes. Those landscapes need to increasingly be stitched together in real time because of the speed of decision making or the use of, you know, real time analytics or real time business deci-, you know, processing. And so that's why we've integrated our technology into multiple landscapes, right, both traditional, but increasingly containerized or cloud-based, cloud-native applications. And I think that's again a multi-year journey. I think IT has to transform, IT architectures has to transform, and frankly businesses need to as well. They need to think about data as a property of the whole business, rather than a for function or a department. >> So just to click on that, double click on that for a second because, what you're saying is, a data fabric allows for multiple data to move around the workloads. So what you're saying is, if you want to take it- well, I'm saying- want to take advantage of machine learning and AI, the data has to be addressable in real time. Meaning, you don't have time to go fetch it from a database that may or may not be available at any given time, so making data addressable, horizontally scalable, for whatever workload, at any given time from retail to personalization, or whatever, right? >> Absolutely, right, so for example, if you look at the way a, um, AI or an ML data pipeline works, there's a period in the pipeline which is about training and feature engineering where you're trying to develop the model the right way. And then you're going to let the model run, but the model's going to be reacting to real time data input and constantly making transformations to how the business reacts. I think that data input needs to be fed in from all of the business processes that support the business, right, rather than a, hey I'm going to create an artifact that's, uh, static artifact that's trained once and then you're going to run the business. So that's why we think you've got to operate the hybrid world as an integrated world at the data layer. >> Yeah, George, one of the interest, there's a study, uh, that Google put out that they had acquired a group, DORA that looks at high performing environments, uh, and you know, what differentiates kind of, the, you know, the leaders of the pack. You talk to a lot of companies, and I'm sure you must, you know, have some, you know, opinions on this. Tell us, what, what is separating, you know, the leaders in the end user space, as to, uh, you know, from, from those that are, that are following. >> I think that, uh, the leaders, you know, are, have the capability to transform themselves, and transformation, you know, people talk about digital transformation. I think the most important part of that is actually the transformation part, and it's organizing people to allow experimentation, learning from experimentation, to celebrate failure, I think that's hard for big companies to do, right? Because you're set up to ensure that you're managing the risk of not failing, on the other hand, I think, in a world where there's a new game being created, you got to be able to allow the organization to try different things and it's okay to fail. >> And the speed pressure, too, to go faster, certainly with cloud, everything's accelerated from time to market, time to value, technology development. >> Absolutely. And I think that is also one of the fundamental changes going on in the industry. We were at the end of a paradigm where there were horizontal slices of expertise, which is really the ultimate optimization of an existing paradigm. The new paradigm isn't exactly clear, so, you know, to move faster, IT is creating vertically integrated squads. You look at, you know, Google's creation of a site reliability engineer, it's really a way to accelerate the creation of digital services and optimize the infrastructure associated with it, so. It's a time of change, I think, you know, our view is you got to lean into it, and, uh, you've got to trust the fact that the skills and the cultural values that you've brought are going to help you innovate into the future, not necessarily just the products and the ways that you've done them. And so that's why we think culture is a massively important part of these transformations. >> We're here with George Kurian, CEO of NetApp, not to be confused with Thomas Kurian, CEO of Google who's also walking around the floor, show floor, talking to customers. George, thanks for coming on and sharing your insight, you guys are awesome, the twins are super smart, running two big companies, thanks for spending time. Share us personal story, with George, I mean Thomas hasn't come on yet, he's too busy, we'll get him later on theCUBE, but share a story about him, what's he like, who wins the arm wrestling matches, share a- what's he like, tell a personal story. >> I think he's shy, uh I think we're both really, we realize how lucky we are, you know, we grew up in places where people, you know, some of us had sort of unmerited grace, you know, the blessings of being born to extraordinary, good families and parents, and so we're always cognizant of that. It's amazing that two guys in India, who had never seen a computer till we left India to come to the United States, now have the opportunity to be a big part of the computer industry, so we're just really grateful, and God's been good to us. >> Well congratulations, love the tech chops, value and culture, big deal right now, thanks for spending the time sharing the insights, appreciate it. >> Thank you for having me. >> George Kurian here on theCUBE with John Furrier, myself, and Stu Miniman, more CUBE coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next '19. Brought to you by Google Cloud, and its ecosystem partners. >> We're back at Google Cloud Next, at the new, improved Moscone Center. This is day two of theCUBE's coverage of Google's big Cloud show. theCUBE is a leader in live tech coverage, my name is Dave Vellante, I'm here with my co-host Stu Miniman. John Furrier is walking the floor, checking out the booth space. Ranga Rangachari is here, he's the Vice President and General Manager of Cloud Storage and hyper-converged infrastructure at Red Hat. Ranga, good to see you again. >> Hi Dave, hi Stu, good to see you again too. >> Thanks for coming on, this show it's, it's growing nicely, good thing Moscone is new and improved. How's the show going for you? >> Show's going really good. I just had a chance to walk around the booths and a lot of interesting conversations and, the Red Hat booth too, there've been a lot of interesting conversations with customers. >> A lot of tailwinds these days for Red Hat. We talk about that a lot on theCUBE, this whole notion of hybrid cloud, you guys have been on that since the early days. >> Yeah. >> Multi-cloud, omni-cloud, hyper-converged infrastructure, it's in your title. It's like that all the moons are lining up for you guys, you know is it just luck, skill, great predictions powers, what's your take? >> Well, I mean, I think it's a combination of those, but more importantly, it's about listening to our customers. I think that's what gives us, today, the permission to talk to our customers about some of these things they're doing, because when we talk to them, it's not just about solving today's problems, but also where they're headed, and anticipating where they're going, and the ability to meet their needs. So is, I think. >> So the Google partnership, we were talking earlier, it started 10 years ago with the hypervisor. >> Yup. >> And it's really evolved. Where is it today, from your perspective? >> Well, I think it continues to, it continues to cooperate in the technical community very well, and a couple of data points, one is on Kubernetes, that started four, five years ago, and that's going really strong. But more importantly, as the industry matures, there are, what I would call, special interest groups that are starting to emerge in the Kubernetes community. One thing that we are paying very close attention to is the storage SIG, which is the ability to federate storage across multiple clouds, and how do you do it seamlessly within the framework of Kubernetes, as opposed to trying to create a hack, or a one-off that some vendors attempted to do. So we try to take a very wholistic view of it, and make sure, I mean the industry we are in is trying to drive volumes, and volumes drives standards, so I think we pay very, very close attention-- >> And the objective there is leave the data in place if possible, provide secure access and fast access, provide high-speed data movement if necessary, protect the data in motion. That is a complex problem. >> It is, and that's why I think it's very important that the community together solves the problem, not just one vendor. But it's about how do you facilitate, the holy grail is how do you facilitate data portability and application portability across these hybrid clouds. And a lot of the things that you talked about are part and parcel of that, but what users don't wanna do is stitch them together. They want a simple, easy way. And most common example that we often get asked is can I migrate my data from one cloud to the other, from on-prem to a public cloud beta based on certain policies. That's a prototypical example of how federated storage and other things can help with that. >> Ranga, bring us inside some of those customer conversations, 'cause we talk on theCUBE, we go back to, customers always say I want multi-vendor, yes, I don't want lock-in, portability is a good thing, but at the end of the day, some of these things, if it's some science experiment or if it's difficult, well, sometimes it's easier just to kind of stick on a similar environment. We know the core of Red Hat, it's if I build on top of rail, then I know it can work lots of places, so where are customers at, how does that fit in to this whole discussion of multi-cloud. >> So, what I can kind of give you a perspective of the hybrid cloud, the product strategy that we've been on for better part of a decade now, is around facilitating the hybrid cloud. So if you look at the open, or the storage nature of the data nature of the conversations, it's almost two sides of the same coin. Which is, the developers want storage to be invisible. They don't wanna be in the business of stitching their lungs and their zone masking all that stuff. But yet at the same time they want storage to be ubiquitous. So, they want it to be invisible, they want it to be ubiquitous. So that's one of the key themes that we are in from our customer. >> Come on, Ranga, you guys are announcing storage list this year, right? >> Yeah, (laughs) exactly. (laughs) So that's a great point. The other part that we are also seeing from our customer conversations is, I think, let me give you, kind of the Red Hat inside out perspective. Is any products, any thing that we release to the market, the first filter that we run through is will it help our customers with our open hybrid cloud journey? So that kind of becomes the filter for any new features we add, any go-to-market motion, so that there is a tremendous amount of impedance match if you will. Between where we're going and how customers can succeed with their open hybrid cloud journey. >> So, in thinking about some of the discussions you're having with customers on their hybrid cloud strategy, specifically, what are those conversations like, what are the challenges that they're having? It's a maturity spectrum, obviously, but what are you seeing at each level of the spectrum, and where are some of those execution, formulation and execution challenges? >> So, as the industry evolves and the technology matures, the conversation change, and 12, 24 months ago it was a dramatically different conversation. It was an all around help me get there. Now the conversation is people really understand, and most of our conversations that we see, and even the other industry players are seeing this, is the conversation starts with on-prem looking out, as opposed to a cloud looking in. So, customers say look I've invested a tremendous amount of assets, intellectual horsepower into building my on-prem infrastructure and make it solid, now give me the degree of freedom for me to move certain workloads to one or many of these public clouds. So that's kind of a huge shift in the conversations we have with the customers. If you click one or a couple of levels below, the conversation talks about things like security as you pointed out. How do you ensure that if I move my workload my overall corporate compliance stuff aren't anywhere compromised. So that's one aspect. The other aspect is manageability. Can it really manage this infrastructure from a proverbial single pane of glass. So now the conversations are less about more theoretical, it's more about I've started the journey help me make this journey successful. >> So when you talk about the perspective of, I've built up this on-prem infrastructure, I've invested a ton it in, and now help me connect, I can see a mindset that would say think cloud first. Of course, the practical reality says I've got all this tactical debt. So how much of that is gonna be a potential pitfall down the road for some of these companies, in your view? >> Well, I think it's not so much of a technical debt. In one way you could call it a technical debt, but the other aspect is how do you really leverage the investment that you've made without having to just say well I'm gonna do things differently. So, that's why I think the conversations we have with our customers are mutually beneficial, because we can help them, but the same token they can help us understand where some of the road blocks are. And through our products, through our services, we can help them circumvent or mitigate some of those-- >> And those assets aren't depreciated on the books, they've gotta get a return on them, right? >> So, Ranga, we know that one of the areas that Red Hat and Google end up working a lot together is in the Cloud Native Computing Foundation. >> Yep. >> Bring us up to speed as to where we are with that storage discussion, 'cause I think back to when Docker launched it was oh, it's gonna be wonderful and everything, but we all live through virtualization, and we had to fix networking and storage challenges here, and networking seemed to go a little further along and there's been a few different viewpoints as to how storage should be looked at in the containerized and the Kubernetes SDO world that we're moving towards today. >> So one example that illustrates storage being the center of this is there is a project called Rook.io. If you're familiar with this, think of it as kind of sitting between the storage infrastructure and Kubernetes. And that is taking on a tremendous amount of traction, not just in the community, but even within the CNCF. I could be wrong here, but my understanding it's a project that's in incubation phase right now. So we are seeing a lot of industry commitment to that Rook project, and you're gonna see real, live use cases where customers are now able to fulfill the vision of data portability and storage portability across these multiple hybrid clouds. >> So Kubernetes is obviously taking off, although again, it's a maturity level. Some customers are diving in, and others maybe not so much. What are you seeing is some of the potential blockers, how are people getting started? Can you just download the code and go? What are you seeing there? >> That's a very interesting question, because we look at it as projects versus products. And, Kubernetes is a project. Phenomenal amount of velocity, phenomenal amount of innovation. But once you deploy it in your production environment, things like security, things like life cycle management, all those things have to be in place before somebody deploys it. That's why, in OpenShift you've seen the tremendous amount of market acceptance we've have with OpenShift is a proof point that it is kind of the best Kubernetes out there, because it's enterprise ready, people can deploy it, people can use it, people can scale with it, and not be worried about things like life cycle management, things like security, all the things that come into play when you deal with an upstream project. So, what we've seen from a customer basis, people start to dabble, and they'll look at Kubernetes, what's going on, and understand where the areas of innovation are. But once they start to say look I've got it deployed for some serious workloads, they look at a vendor who can provide all the necessary ingredients for them to be successful. >> We're having a good discussion earlier about customer's perspectives, I wanna get as much out of that asset as I possibly can. You said something that interested me. I wanna go back to it. Is customers want options to be able to migrate to various clouds. My question is do you sense that that's because they wanna manage their risk, they want an exit strategy? Or, are they actively moving more than once. Maybe they wanna go once and then run in the cloud. Or are you seeing a lot of active movement of that data? >> I think the first order of bit in those discussions that are about the workloads, What workload do they wanna run? And once they decide this is the, for instance, with the Google Cloud, with the MLAI type of workloads, lend themselves very well to the Google Cloud infrastructure. So when a customer says look this is the workload I wanna run on-prem, but I want the elastic capability for me to run on one of these public clouds, often the decision criteria seems to be what workload it is and where's the best place to run it in. And then, you know, the rest of the stuff comes into play. >> So, Ranga, let's step back for a second. I come out of this show, Google Cloud this year, and I'm hearing open, multi-cloud, reminds me of words I've heard going to Red Hat, some every year. Help us to kind of squint through a little bit as to where Red Hat sits in the customer. If I'm the c-suite of an enterprise customer day, where Red Hat fits in the partnership with customers, and where the partners fit into that overall story. >> So, our view is let's look at it customer end. And practically every customer that we talk to wants to embark on an open hybrid cloud storage. And I wanna kind of stress on the open part of it, because it's the easier way to say okay let me go build a hybrid cloud. The more difficult part is how do you facilitate it through open hybrid cloud story. And that's the march, if you will, that we've been on for the last five plus years. And, that business strategy and the technology strategy has not, we've been unwavering in that. And, the partners are and they say we truly believe that for us to be successful, for our customers to be successful, we need an ecosystem of partners. And the cloud providers are absolutely a critical ingredient and a critical component of the overall strategy, and I think together, with our partners, and our core technology, and our go-to-market routes, we think we can really solve our customers, we are solving them today, and we think we can continue to solve them over time. >> You talk about open, open has a lot of different definitions. And again it's suspected UNIX used to be open. (laughs) I see that potentially as one, real solid differentiator of Red Hat. I mean, your philosophy on open. What do you see as your differentiators in the marketplace? >> Well, I think the first is obviously open like you said, the second part is, I think I hinted upon it earlier, which is, projects are good. I think they are almost a fountain and of ideas and things, but I think where we spend a tremendous amount of hours of energy is to transform it from the upstream project into a product. And if you go back, Red Hat Linux, I think we've shown that Linux was in the same kind of state of vibe in other ways, 10, 20 years ago. And I think what we've shown to the industry is by being solely committed and focused on make these projects enterprise ready, I think we've shown the market leading the way, and making it successful. So I think for us, the next wave, whether it's Kubernetes, whether it's other things, it's a very similar recipe book, nothing dramatically different, but fundamentally what we want to do is help our customers take advantage of those innovations, but yet not compromise on what they need in their enterprise data centers. >> The recipe book is similar, but you've gotta make bets. You've made some pretty good bets over the years. >> Yep. >> We could debate about OpenStack, but I mean, even there. But that's not an easy thing for an open source company to do. 'Cause you've gotta pick your poison, you have to provide committers, what's the secret sauce there? >> Well, I think, first off, I think the number one secret sauce from our perspective is add more technical and intellectual horsepower to these communities. And, not so much for the sake of community, it's about does it solve a real business problem for our customers? That's the way we go about it because in the open source community, I don't even know, hundreds of thousands of open source projects are out there. And we pay, and our office of the CTO pays very close attention to all the projects out there, identify the ones that have promise, not just from our perspective but from customers' perspective, and invest in those areas. And a lot of them have succeeded, so we think we'll do well in that. >> Alright, so, Ranga, one of the biggest announcements this week is Anthos from Google. Wanna get your viewpoint as to where that fits. >> I think it's a good announcement, I haven't read through all the details, but part of it is I think it validates, to a certain extent, what Red Hat has been talking about for the last five, seven years. Which is you need a unified way to deploy, manage, provision your infrastructure, not just on public clouds, but a seamless way to connect to the on-prem. And I think Anthos is a validation of how we've been thinking about the work. So we think it's great. We think it's really good. >> Ranga Rangachari thanks so much for coming back on theCUBE >> Thank you, David! >> It's always a pleasure. >> Thank you again, Stu. >> Have a great Red Hat summit coming up in early May, theCUBE will be there, Stu will be co-hosting. You're watching theCUBE, day two of Google Cloud Next 2019 from Moscone. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Google Cloud Next '19. Brought to you by Google Cloud and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the Moscone Center in San Francisco everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. This is day two of our coverage of Google Cloud Next #GoogleNext19. I'm here with my co-host Stuart Miniman and I'm Dave Vellante, John Furrier is also here. Dominic Preuss is here, he's the Director of Product Management, Storage and Databases at Google. Dominic, good to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Great, thanks to be here. >> Gosh, 15, 20 years ago there were like three databases and now there's like, I feel like there's 300. It's exploding, all this innovation. You guys made some announcements yesterday, we're gonna get into, but let's start with, I mean, data, we were just talking at the open, is the critical part of any IT transformation, business value, it's at the heart of it. Your job is at the heart of it and it's important to Google. >> Yes. Yeah, you know, Google has a long history of building businesses based on data. We understand the importance of it, we understand how critical it is. And so, really, that ethos is carried over into Google Cloud platform. We think about it very much as a data platform and we have a very strong responsibility to our customers to make sure that we provide the most secure, the most reliable, the most available data platform for their data. And it's a key part of any decision when a customer chooses a hyper cloud vendor. >> So summarize your strategy. You guys had some announcements yesterday really embracing open source. There's certainly been a lot of discussion in the software industry about other cloud service providers who were sort of bogarting open source and not giving back, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. How would you characterize Google's strategy with regard to open source, data storage, data management and how do you differentiate from other cloud service providers? >> Yeah, Google has always been the open cloud. We have a long history in our commitment to open source. Whether be Kubernetes, TensorFlow, Angular, Golang. Pick any one of these that we've been contributing heavily back to open source. Google's entire history is built on the success of open source. So we believe very strongly that it's an important part of the success. We also believe that we can take a different approach to open source. We're in a very pivotal point in the open source industry, as these companies are understanding and deciding how to monetize in a hyper cloud world. So we think we can take a fundamentally different approach and be very collaborative and support the open source community without taking advantage or not giving back. >> So, somebody might say, okay, but Google's got its own operational databases, you got analytic databases, relational, non-relational. I guess Google Spanner kind of fits in between those. It was an amazing product. I remember that that first came out, it was making my eyes bleed reading the white paper on it but awesome tech. You certainly own a lot of your own database technology and do a lot of innovation there. So, square that circle with regard to partnerships with open source vendors. >> Yeah, I think you alluded to a little bit earlier there are hundreds of database technologies out there today. And there's really been a proliferation of new technology, specifically databases, for very specific use cases. Whether it be graph or time series, all these other things. As a hyper cloud vendor, we're gonna try to do the most common things that people need. We're gonna do manage MySQL, and PostgreS and SQL Server. But for other databases that people wanna run we want to make sure that those solutions are first class opportunities on the platform. So we've engaged with seven of the top and leading open source companies to make sure that they can provide a managed service on Google Cloud Platform that is first class. What that means is that as a GCP customer I can choose a Google offered service or a third-party offered service and I'm gonna have the same, seamless, frictionless, integrated experience. So I'm gonna get unified billing, I'm gonna get one bill at the end of the day. I'm gonna have unified support, I'm gonna reach out to Google support and they're going to figure out what the problem is, without blaming the third-party or saying that isn't our problem. We take ownership of the issue and we'll go and figure out what's happening to make sure you get an answer. Then thirdly, a unified experience so that the GCP customer can manage that experience, inside a cloud console, just like they would their Google offered serves. >> A fully-managed database as a service essentially. >> Yes, so of the seven vendors, a number of them are databases. But also for Kafka, to manage Kafka or any other solutions that are out there as well. >> All right, so we could spend the whole time talking about databases. I wanna spend a couple minutes talking about the other piece of your business, which is storage. >> Dominic: Absolutely. >> Dave and I have a long history in what we'd call traditional storage. And the dialog over the last few years has been we're actually talking about data more than the storing of information. A few years back, I called cloud the silent killer of the old storage market. Because, you know, I'm not looking at buying a storage array or building something in the cloud. I use storage is one of the many services that I leverage. Can you just give us some of the latest updates as to what's new and interesting in your world. As well as when customers come to Google where does storage fit in that overall discussion? >> I think that the amazing opportunity that we see for for large enterprises right now is today, a lot of that data that they have in their company are in silos. It's not properly documented, they don't necessarily know where it is or who owns it or the data lineage. When we pick all that date up across the enterprise and bring it in to Google Cloud Platform, what's so great about is regardless of what storage solution you choose to put your data in it's in a centralized place. It's all integrated, then you can really start to understand what data you have, how do I do connections across it? How do I try to drive value by correlating it? For us, we're trying to make sure that whatever data comes across, customers can choose whatever storage solution they want. Whichever is most appropriate for their workload. Then once the data's in the platform we help them take advantage of it. We are very proud of the fact that when you bring data into object storage, we have a single unified API. There's only one product to use. If you would have really cold data, or really fast data, you don't have to wait hours to get the data, it's all available within milliseconds. Now we're really excited that we announced today is a new storage class. So, in Google Cloud Storage, which is our object storage product, we're now gonna have a very cold, archival storage option, that's going to start at $0.12 per gigabyte, per month. We think that that's really going to change the game in terms of customers that are trying to retire their old tape backup systems or are really looking for the most cost efficient, long term storage option for their data. >> The other thing that we've heard a lot about this week is that hybrid and multi-cloud environment. Google laid out a lot of the partnerships. I think you had VMware up on stage. You had Cisco up on stage, I see Nutanix is here. How does that storage, the hybrid multi-cloud, fit together for your world. >> I think the way that we view hybrid is that every customer, at some point, is hybrid. Like, no one ever picks up all their data on day one and on day two, it's on the cloud. It's gonna be a journey of bringing that data across. So, it's always going to be hybrid for that period of time. So for us, it's making sure that all of our storage solutions, we support open standards. So if you're using an an S3 compliant storage solution on-premise, you can use Google Cloud Storage with our S3 compatible API. If you are doing block, we work with all the large vendors, whether be NetApp or EMC or any of the other vendors you're used to having on-premise, making sure we can support those. I'm personally very excited about the work that we've done with NetApp around NetApp cloud buying for Google Cloud Platform. If you're a NetApp shop and you've been leveraging that technology and you're really comfortable and really like it on-premise, we make it really easy to bring that data to the cloud and have the same exact experience. You get all the the wonderful features that NetApp offers you on-premise in a cloud native service where you're paying on a consumption based service. So, it really takes, kind of, the decision away for the customers. You like NetApp on-premise but you want cloud native features and pricing? Great, we'll give you NetApp in the cloud. It really makes it to be an easy transition. So, for us it's making sure that we're engaged and that we have a story with all the storage vendors that you used to using on-premise today. >> Let me ask you a question, about go back, to the very cold, ice cold storage. You said $0.12 per gigabyte per month, which is kinda in between your other two major competitors. What was your thinking on the pricing strategy there? >> Yeah, basically everything we do is based on customer demand. So after talking to a bunch of customers, understanding the workloads, understanding the cost structure that they need, we think that that's the right price to meet all of those needs and allow us to basically compete for all the deals. We think that that's a really great price-point for our customers. And it really unlocks all those workloads for the cloud. >> It's dirt cheap, it's easy to store and then it takes a while to get it back, right, that's the concept? >> No, it is not at all. We are very different than other storage vendors or other public cloud offerings. When you drop your data into our system, basically, the trade up that you're making is saying, I will give you a cheaper price in exchange for agreeing to leave the data in the platform, for a longer time. So, basically you're making a time-based commitment to us, at which point we're giving you a cheaper price. But, what's fundamentally different about Google Cloud Storage, is that regardless of which storage class you use, everything is available within milliseconds. You don't have to wait hours or any amount of time to be able to get that data. It's all available to you. So, this is really important, if you have long-term archival data and then, let's say, that you got a compliance request or regulatory requests and you need to analyze all the data and get to all your data, you're not waiting hours to get access to that data. We're actually giving you, within milliseconds, giving you access to that data, so that you can get the answers you need. >> And the quid pro quo is I commit to storing it there for some period of time, is that you said? >> Correct. So, we have four storage classes. We have our Standard, our Nearline, our Coldline and this new Archival. Each of them has a lower price point, in exchange for a longer, committed time the you'll leave the product. >> That's cool. I think that adds real business value there. So, obviously, it's not sitting on tape somewhere. >> We have a number of solutions for how we store the data. For us, it's indifferent, how we store the data. It's all about how long you're willing to tell us it'll be there and that allows us to plan for those resources long term. >> That's a great story. Now, you also have this pay-as-you-go pricing tiers, can you talk about that a little bit? >> For which, for Google Cloud Storage? >> Dave: Yes. >> Yeah, everything is pay-as-you-go and so basically you write data to us and there's a charge for the operations you do and then you charge for however long you leave the data in the system. So, if you're using our Standard class, you're just paying our standard price. You can either use Regional or Multi-Regional, depending on the disaster recovery and the durability and availability requirements that you have. Then you're just paying us for that for however long you leave the data in the system. Once you delete it, you stop paying. >> So it must be, I'm not sure what kind of customer discussions are going on in terms of storage optionality. It used to be just, okay, I got block and I got file, but now you've got all different kind of. You just mentioned several different tiers of performance. What's the customer conversation like, specifically in terms of optionality and what are they asking you to deliver? >> I think within the storage space, there's really three things, there's object, block and file. So, on the object side, or on the block side we have our persistence product. Customers are asking for better price performance, more performance, more IOPS, more throughput. We're continuing to deliver a higher-performance, block device for them and that's going very, very well. For those that need file, we have our first-party service, which is Cloud Filestore, which is our manage NFS. So if you need managed NFS, we can provide that for you at a really low price point. We also partner with, you mentioned Elastifile earlier. We partner with NetApp, we're partnering with EMC. So all those options are also available for file. Then on the object side, if you can accept the object API, it's not POSIX-compliant it's a very different model. If your workloads can support that model then we give you a bunch of options with the Object Model API. >> So, data management is another hot topic and it means a lot of things to a lot of people. You hear the backup guys talking about data management. The database guys talk about data management. What is data management to Google and what your philosophy and strategy there? >> I think for us, again, I spend a lot of time making sure that the solutions are unified and consistent across. So, for us, the idea is that if you bring data into the platform, you're gonna get a consistent experience. So you're gonna have consistent backup options you're gonna have consistent pricing models. Everything should be very similar across the various products So, number one, we're just making sure that it's not confusing by making everything very simple and very consistent. Then over time, we're providing additional features that help you manage that. I'm really excited about all the work we're doing on the security side. So, you heard Orr's talk about access transparency and access approvals right. So basically, we can have a unified way to know whether or not anyone, either Google or if a third-party offer, a third-party request has come in about if we're having to access the data for any reason. So we're giving you full transparency as to what's going on with your data. And that's across the data platform. That's not on a per-product basis. We can basically layer in all these amazing security features on top of your data. The way that we view our business is that we are stewards of your data. You've given us your data and asked us to take care of it, right, don't lose it. Give it back to me when I want it and let me know when anything's happening to it. We take that very seriously and we see all the things we're able to bring to bear on the security side, to really help us be good stewards of that data. >> The other thing you said is I get those access logs in near real time, which is, again, nuanced but it's very important. Dominic, great story, really. I think clear thinking and you, obviously, delivered some value for the customers there. So thanks very much for coming on theCUBE and sharing that with us. >> Absolutely, happy to be here. >> All right, keep it right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest right after this. You're watching theCUBE live from Google Cloud Next from Moscone. Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman, John Furrier. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live, from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Google Cloud Next '19. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. Live coverage here with theCUBE in San Francisco, California, Moscone South. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Here at Google Next 2019 we have here in theCUBE for the first time as a Google employee, Cube alumni, Amit Zavery. Head of platform for Google Cloud. Great to see you. >> No, thanks for having me. It's always a pleasure to see you guys again. >> So you're just now on the job, not even two months. 25 years, 23? >> Amit: Close to 25, yes. >> Three years at Oracle. TK's over here as CEO, part of Google. They got a lot of action going on here. >> Oh definitely, it's very exciting times. I've spent some time kind of learning and hearing about what the vision at Google has been and it's very clear they're here to win it and we have the investment that they're making, the innovation which is going on is very attractive and very exciting, I think. >> Always love our conversations in the past in theCUBE around platform You got a deep technical background. Um you've been in the business. You've seen many waves of innovation up and down the stack. So it's not, I don't think there is a move you haven't seen in the business. But Cloud, there's some new things happening, it's going to, but it's all part of other things, kind of meshing together. Pun intended, service meshes. >> Yeah. >> But as customers move to the cloud from on prem, having cloud, multiple clouds, multiple dimensions of change. >> Yes. What's your take on this because, I think, you have a unique perspective in that 20 something years at Oracle, leader in databases and software? >> Yeah. >> Google's got great leadership in tech. >> Yep. >> But now they're standing up a whole new cloud business, at a whole 'nother level. Your thoughts? >> Yeah, yeah, I think if you look at what's going on and I talk to a lot of customers and developers and IT teams and clearly, I think, they are overwhelmed with different things, you said, going on in this space, so how do you make it simple? How do you make it open? How do you make it hybrid so you have flexibility of choices? It's becoming top of the mind for many of the users nowadays. The lock-in, which many vendors currently provide, becomes very difficult for many of this uh users who kind of keep moving around and meet the business requirements. So I think having a solution and a technology stack, which is really understanding the complexity around that and making it simple enough to adopt, I think is important. >> You know, one of these things, we watch these key notes very carefully. Especially when you have a new CEO, Thomas Kurian. We follow NetApp as well as his twin brother. But his first opening line was a little you know, tip of the cap to Diane Greene, which I thought was very classy. We hear all the other things. Scale, the multi-cloud piece. And then Jennifer Lynn gave a great demo, and she said something in her demo I want to get your reaction to. What are the business benefits of Anthos' negotiating contracts? Meaning choice. >> Yes. So lock-in's shifting. This means lock-in is not your grandfather's lock-in. You know, you worked at Oracle which has an amazing lock-in spec in databases. This is a whole new world, it's capabilities, the new lock-in. Or what is the new, I mean I guess lock-in is a function of-- >> Amit: No I mean, (mumbles) Again, it's not ideas. Lock-in is definitely not the right way of kind of looking at it. The way to kind of really make sure you attract users and attract customers, is to really make a value add capabilities in there. Right and then if the customers really love it they're going to keep on using it. In respective you call it lock-in or provide some propriotariness or not. >> Value. >> Right. Value is complete, exactly. I think it's important to really think about how you build some of the services and technologies which give this value. But also give you the choice of moving if you want to. That I think, if you start from the beginning that there's no choice, then the value doesn't come out, ever. >> John: So value's the new lock-in. >> It has to be, it has to be. >> Alright, talk about apogee. because you're one of the key piece of the platform is apogee. Talk about your focus, you're still learning, getting your feet wet. But again, you've got your running shoes on, you're experienced. What is that platform that you're handling. Give a quick description. >> Apogee, an acquisition, which Google made a few years ago. And I think it's a kind of center spaced offering which allows customers to really do the life cycle and digital transformation of the technology they have in the back end. Right and uh the apogee team has done a great job of keeping, being the market leader and keeping innovating. I think the next phase for us as we look forward is one is to make it very completely integrated and make it very seamless with all the rest of Google properties we have and the assets we have and second thing is to really add other capabilities around it so that customers depending on what they want to do like line of business or IT steams to be able to now unlock a lot of the application data they have and expose it to both the customer, spotners, as well as internal employees in a simple easy manner. So a lot of wantization can happen, monitoring, all these things can be really great for them. >> John: So there's a lot of head room in apogee. >> Very very much yes. >> By technology and business benefit. >> Dave: So head of platform. You know we in the industry we hear platform and we kind of understand what it's all about. People outside the industry maybe, some of an inmorphis concept to them. So my first question though before we get into this, what attracted you to Google? >> No I think that basically if I look at the strength Google brings as a organization, be it in terms of innovation, be it in terms of investment, the infrastructure and the willingness to invest in the long term. I think that is really really attractive. I think for me to kind of have the ability to kind of invest and grow a lot of the footprint we have to offer to a customer and solve the business problems in a little more longer term than short term oriented, I think is very very exciting. >> So let's talk more about platforms. You think of platforms as a set of capabilities steeped in sort of an architectural premise, there's maybe some dog mutt in there that you've got have have these capabilities then ultimately you're going to deliver value and turn into products and customer value. What is platform to you and what's that sort of how should we think about that fly wheel effect? >> Yeah in the way that I look at the platform is basically one is capabilities the customer require, one to build an application, integrate it, and be able to secure it and manage it right? So all the different capabilities you'd acquire instead of having to get piece meal of it and have to tie it all together yourself, you can now do it with a much easier fashion and one that provides you the capability as one integrated capability right? So that's really what I think of the platform. >> So your constituencies are obviously your internal developers, your external developers. Who are you serving with that platform? >> A few audiences. No doubt to others to be able to build an application. But I think the bigger audience if you go beyond that is really, apps IT and a line of business. So to them more and more line of business at doing extension to an application. The doing integration without having the right code. And if you can provide a powerful tool where any person who is not a professional developer can do that kind of tasks and get more power out of the application of the business systems they're running, the value is immense. And that's really I think the audience we need to be able to attract and be able to now cater to so that they have a lot more benefits from using the Google platform. >> Is that part technical capability, part you know, go to market? How do you view that? >> It's definitely a lot of work to be done from the product perspective to make it simple um make it more consumable by apps IT and line of business user where such professional developers but also in terms of how you design it and make it self service and attractive enough for an audience who is not really kind of having to do deal with a lot of this themselves. >> Okay so that's presumably what we should be expecting from you. Maybe talk about your priorities and give us a little you know, how should we be, sort of, judging you down the road, judging you not the right term but what milestones should we be looking for? >> A little too early, I mean this is four weeks at Google but I think uh, the way to look at this is are we basically catering to all the new requirements you see from a lot of the next generation users and I think uh, the ability for us to kind of expand that capability in a platform offering so it's not just catering to one kind of an audience but also new buyers which we seeing as users coming into the platform. So over the next six months or nine months we start seeing some of those things which you do. >> Is this a new role? Was it sort of by committee before or? >> No I think Google has been doing a lot of these things I think when you start to think about a rationalized skew of the areas and how do you keep on expanding. There's a lot of headroom for Google cloud to go and we continue to kind of look at where we need to be and how we can keep on expanding and meet those requirements. >> Amit talk about Thomas Kurian also known as TK onstage. He's been busy, he's going to come on the queue eventually. He's talking to a lot of customers we heard. Hundreds of customers been promoted. You worked in that oracle, what's he like? Share some color commentary on TK, he set the chops obviously in enterprise. What's he like? People, he's new CEO. >> Yeah, yeah I've worked with Thomas for 18 plus years and I think he's probably one of the smartest person I've worked with for sure. But I think it's very strategic vision and clear execution. I think combination is rare for a lot of people. We have a very clear vision but how do you execute and get operationally make those things possible? I think that really what Thomas brings to any any place he gets into. Right so he has a very clear idea where we should be going, he talks to a lot of customers, get you all the input and has a clear plan in terms of how we deli, what we should be doing. And then he gets very involved wit the execution operational work we should be doing right? So that is the unique thing to bring to the table. >> John: He can get down and dirty if you want him to do it. >> Yeah oh very much, yes yes. (laughs) He's fun to work with in that way. >> So I want to ask you a personal question I know we've been following your career, certainly you got a great, great technical background as well. As you look at the cloud, and having all that enterprise experience, you see many ways in innovation, hardware, software, evolution to the cloud. As you look at the modern enterprise, you mentioned IT apps, apps IT, it's a whole new app revolution renaissance happening. You got hybrid and multi cloud. What does it mean to be enterprise ready? If you could take all the learnings in your career, as you look at the new, you know, out in the new pasture, of the next ten years plus, you see changes happening, what's your vision? >> I think that enterprise ready for us, I mean I think that's what we are doing a lot, if you saw today from Thomas' announcements, there's a lot of things we are planning and we have been doing already and we need to do as well. But I think it's understanding the existing landscape of a customer. And enterprise, let's use them on and invest on many customers we've made and systems you can't rip and replace instantly. And to be able to understand how you operate in that kind of constrains as well as context is very important when you build new generational applications. So kind of having the connectivity and the tissue of kind of making it all work together, while you kind of modernize and digitally transform your offering, I think is a critical way of thinking. And I think that's what you'll start seeing a lot more of that from the product planning, product delivery perspective and understanding that yet many customers have to pay before they can move everywhere right? So you saw today with Thomas' announcement about hybrid which allows you to kind of inter operate with existing investments. Multicloud because you might be running into multiple environments. As well as you saw some the things we doing to really make it easy and simple to integrate with the existing portfolio that customers have. >> You know what's interesting is that you know, he also mentioned industries, which you guys at Oracle certainly you know every industry's got unique requirements. What's interesting and kind of validates on a queue we've, Dave and I have talked for years that the clouds horizontally scalable yet with data and AI you can be differentiated in the industry level so you can actually have best of both worlds now. That's what I see kind of coming together at the platform 'cause you have to have a platform that enables. How do you see that? Do you agree with that? Do you see that shaping out? How would you see that ability to take advantage of the horizontal scale, the ability, connective tissue, plus enabling this horizontal specialization for industry solutions? >> Yeah, no I think you saw again some of the announcements around that, with how do you make it not pertinent to a particular end user. Alright each industry has specific data models, specific use cases and you need to be able to provide and cater to that. So you have to have a horizontal platform which can cater to multiple, different things you want to do. But then you'd have to provide the main specific content and that's when you'll start seeing as you think that Oracle does some of the things that other companies do that and we will do some of that stuff as well. >> Well that's interesting point because you're in a point of a horizontal scaling because it creates this, uh, another disruption agenda. Yeah you can disrupts search and productivity software but you can also triverse industries with your partners. We were talking about apogee before with the API economy. You can see Google and its partners getting the healthcare, financial services, autonomist vehicles, I mean virtually every industry because it's data and that to me is the exciting part of platform. >> Oh no doubt. I think Google also brings a lot strength in terms of the modeling and the AI work they've been doing for many years and that can really exhilarate capabilities around these things in a much more easier way than it could be otherwise. >> And you kind of have a clean sheet of paper in the enterprise >> That's right. >> Amit great to see you, I'm glad we can get your first public appearance at Google here in theCUBE. Appreciate the commentary, I want to finally, final question is, personal question. If you were a cloud architect for a large enterprise that had complex to simple work loads and everything in between, what would you be doing in advising and setting up and architecting, what would you, what would you do? >> I think that the best thing to do I think is to identify different categories of applications. I don't think it's one thing fits all right? So define what are the categories of applications you have. Some of them are cloud ready and make sure that you can, status are ready and adoption and moving to more agile delivery model. Second on the application which you might want to now start thinking about rewriting and then having a road map associated with that so you're not trying to go and rip and replace because that has an impact on your business and capabilities right? And then third thing we might want to look at retiring some of the staff and then hey you have to modernize, I mean there's nothing, there's no way out of it. Just like software goes through cycles of innovation and changes every ten years you see a new stack of technologies come out and you have to remain competitive by adopting some of the states. So I think that's kind of in recognizing what you have and how you adopt is probably the number one thing. >> And you'll be probably driving containers throughout >> No doubt, I think the technologies out there now with the containerization, much much simpler to kind of go and run and write one's, run anywhere kind of thing. >> Those scenarios is kind of what the guy from Kohl's was saying today in the key note >> Yeah they're very similar yeah. >> He didn't say this, this one use case of just leave it there which was interesting to me. So, do nothing was not his strategy. It is, it is for some. >> Amit Zavery here on theCUBE. Great, great insight, thanks for sharing. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule. Amit Zavery head of platform at Google Cloud here on theCUBE. I'm John Furrier. See us with more day one coverage. We're here for three days. Live, we'll be right back after this short break. (upbeat music)