(upbeat music) >> Announcer: TheCUBE presents Ignite '22 brought to you by Palo Alto Networks. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas guys and girls. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante. This is day one of the cube's two day coverage of Palo Alto Networks Ignite at the MGM Grand. Dave, we've been having some great conversations today, we have a great two day lineup execs from Palo Alto, it's partner network, customers, et cetera. Going to be talking about infrastructure as code. We talk about that a lot, how Palo is partnering with its partner ecosystem to really help customers deliver security across the organization. >> We do a predictions post every year. Hopefully you can hear me. So we do this predictions post every year. I've done it for a number of years, and I want to say it was either 2018 or 2019, we predicted that HashiCorp was one of these companies to watch. And then last August, on August 9th, we had supercloud event in Palo Alto. We had David McJannet in, who is the CEO of HashiCorp. And we really see Hashi as a key player in terms of affecting multicloud consistency. Sometimes we call it supercloud, you building on top of the hyperscale cloud. So super excited to have HashiCorp on. >> Really an important conversation. We've got an alumni back with us. Asvin Ramesh is here the senior director of Alliances at HashiCorp. Welcome back. >> Yeah, thank you. Good to be back. >> Great to have you. Talk to us a little bit about what's going on at HashiCorp, your relationship with Palo Alto Networks, and what's in it for customers. >> Yeah, no, no, great question. So, Palo Alto has been a fantastic partner of ours for many years now. We started way back in 2018, 2019 focusing on the basics, putting integrations in place that customers can be using together. And so it's been a great journey. Both are very synergistic. Palo Alto is focused on multicloud, so are we, we focus on cloud infrastructure automation, and ensuring that customers are able to bring in agility, reliability, security, and be able to deliver to their business. And then Palo Alto brings in great security components to that multicloud story. So it's a great story altogether. >> Some of the challenges that organizations have been facing. Palo Alto just released a survey, I think this morning if I can find it here what's next in cyber organizations facing massive headwinds ransomware becoming a household word, business email compromise being a challenge. But also in the last couple of years the massive shift to multi-club or organizations are living an operating need to do so securely. It's no longer nice to have anymore. It's absolutely table stakes for survival, and being able to thrive and grow for any business. >> Yeah, no, I think it's almost a sort of rethinking of how you would build your infrastructure up. So the more times you do it right the better you are built to scale. That's been one of the bedrocks of how we've been working with Palo Alto, which is rethinking how should IT be building their infrastructure in a multicloud world. And I think the market timing is right for both of us in terms of the progress that we've been able to make. >> So, I mean Terraform has really become sort of a key ingredient to the cloud operating model, especially across clouds. Kind of describe how partners, and customers are are implementing that cross-cloud capability. What's that journey look like? What's the level of maturity today? >> Yeah, great question, Dave. So we sort of see customers in three buckets. The first bucket is when customers are in the initial phases of their cloud journey. So they have disparate teams in their business units try out clouds themselves. Typically there is some event that occurs either some sort of a security scare or a a cloud cost event that triggers a rethinking of how they should be thinking about this in a scalable way. So that leads to where the cloud operating model which is a framework that HashiCorp has. And we use that successfully with customers to talk them through how they should be thinking about their process, about how they should be standardizing how people operate, and then the products they should be including, but then you come to that stage, and you start to think about a centralized platform team that is putting in golden workflows, that is putting in as a service mindset for their business units thinking through policies at a corporate level. And then that is a second stage. And then, but this is also in some customers more around public clouds. But then the third stage that we see is when they start embracing their private cloud or the on-prem data center, and have the same principles address across both public clouds, and the on-prem data center, and then Terraform scale for any infrastructure. So, once you start to put these practices in place not just from a technology standpoint, but from a process, and product standpoint, you're easily able to scale with that central platform organization. >> So, it's all about that consistency across your estate irrespective of whether it's on-prem in AWS, Azure, Google, the Edge, maybe. I mean, that's starting, right? >> Asvin: Yes. >> And so when you talk about the... Break it down a little bit process and product, where do you and Palo Alto sort of partner and add value? What's that experience like? >> Yeah, so, I think as I mentioned earlier the bedrock is having ways in which customers are able to use our products together, right? And then being able to evangelize the usage of that product. So one example I'll give you is with Prisma Cloud, and Terraform Cloud to your point about Terraform earlier. So customers can be using Prisma Cloud with Terraform Cloud in a way that you can get security context telemetry during an infrastructure run, and then use policies that you have in Prisma Cloud to be able to get or run or to implement or run or make sure essentially it is adhering to your security policy or any other audits that you want to create or any other cost that you want to be able to control. >> Where are your customer conversations these days? We know that security is a board level conversation. Interestingly, in that same survey that Palo Alto released this morning that I mentioned they found that there's a big lack of alignment between the board and the C-suite staff, the executive suite in terms of security. Where are your conversations, and how are you maybe facilitating that alignment that needs to be there? Because security it's not a nice to have. >> Yeah, I think in our experience, the alignment is there. I think especially with the macro environment it's more about where where do you allocate those resources. I think those are conversations that we're just starting to see happen, but I think it's the natural progression of how the environment is moving, and maybe another quarter or two, I think we'll see greater alignment there. >> So, and I saw some data that said I guess it was a study you guys did 90% of customer say multicloud is working for them. That surprised me 'cause you hear all this negativity around multicloud, I've been kind of negative about multicloud to be honest. Like that's a symptom of MNA, and a or multi-vendor. But how do you interpret that? When they say multicloud is working? How so? >> Yeah, I think the maturity of customers are varied as I mentioned through the stages, right? So, there are customers who even in the initial phases of their journey where they have different business units using different clouds, and from a C standpoint that might still look like multicloud, right? Though the way we think about it is you should be really in stage two, and stage three to real leverage the real power of multicloud. But I think it's that initial hump that you need to go through, and being able to get oriented towards it, have the right set of skillsets, the thought process, the product, the process in place. And once you have that then you'll start reaping the benefits over a period of time, especially when some other environments events happen, and you're able to easily adjust to that because you're leveraging this multicloud environment, and you have a clear policy of where you'll use which cloud. >> So I interpreted that data as, okay, multicloud is working from the standpoint of we are multicloud, okay? So, and our business is working, but when I talk to customers, they want more to your point, they want that consistent experience. And so it's been by, to use somebody else's term, by default. Chuck Whitten I think came up with that term versus by design. And now I think they have an objective of, okay, let's make multicloud work even better. Maybe I can say that. And so what does that experience look like? That means a common experience all the way through my stack, my infrastructure stack, which is that's going to be interesting to see how that goes down 'cause you got three separate clouds, and are doing their own APIs. But certainly from a security standpoint, the PaaS layer, even as I go up the stack, how do you see that outcome, and say the next two to five years? >> Yeah, so, we go back to our customers, and they're very successful ones who've used the cloud operating model. And for us the cloud operating model for us includes four layers. So on the infrastructure layer, we have Terraform and Packer, on the security layer we have Vault and Boundary, on the networking layer we have Consul, and then on applications we have Nomad and Waypoint. But then you really look at, from a people process, and product standpoint, for people it's how do you standardize the workflows that they're able to use, right? So if you have a central platform team in place that is looking at common use cases that multiple business units are using. and then creates a golden workflow, for example, right? For these various business units to be able to use or creates what we call a system of record for cloud adoption it helps multiple business units then latch onto this work that this central platform team is doing. And they need to have a product mindset, right? So not like a project that you just start and end with. You have this continuous improvement mindset within that platform team. And they build these processes, they build these golden workflows, they build these policies in place, and then they offer that as a service to the business units to be able to use. So that increases the adoption of multicloud. And also more importantly, you can then allow that multicloud usage to be governed in the way that aligns with your overall corporate objectives. And obviously in self-interest, you'd use Terraform or Vault because you can then use it across multiple clouds. >> Well, let's say I buy into that. Okay, great. So I want that common experience 'cause so when you talk about infrastructure, take us through an example. So when I hear infrastructure, I say, okay if I'm using an S3 bucket over here an Azure blob over there, they got different APIs, they got different primitives. I want you to abstract that away. Is that what you do? >> Yeah, so I think we've seen different use cases being used across different clouds too. So I don't think it's sort of as simple as, hey, should I use this or that? It is ensuring that the common tool that you use to be able to leverage safer provisioning, right? Is Terraform. So the central team is then trained in not only just usage of Terraform open source, but their Terraform cloud, which is our managed service, and Terraform enterprise which is the self-managed, but on-prem product, it's them being qualified to be able to build these consistent workflows using whatever tool that they have or whatever skew that they have from Terraform. And then applying business logic on top of that to your point about, hey, we'd like to use AWS for these kind of workloads. We'd like to use GCP, for example, on data or use Microsoft Azure for some other type of- >> Collaboration >> Right? But the common tooling, right? Remains around the usage of Terraform, and they've trained their teams there's a standard workflow, there's standard process around it. >> Asvin, I was looking at that survey the HashiCorp state of cloud strategy survey, and it talked about skill shortages as being the number one barrier to multicloud. We talk about the cyber skills gap all the time. It's huge. It's obviously a huge issue. I saw some numbers just the other day that there's 26 million developers but there's less than 3 million cybersecurity professionals. How does HashiCorp and Palo Alto Networks, how do you help customers address that skills gap so that they that they can leverage multicloud as a driver of the business? >> Yeah, another great question. So I think I'd say in two or three different ways. One is be able to provide greater documentation for our customers to be able to self use the product so that with the existing people, for example, you build out a known example, right? You're trying to achieve this goal here is how you use our products together. And so they'll be able to self-service, right? So that's one. Second is obviously both of us have great services partners, so we are always working with these services partners to get their teams trained and scaled up around these skill gaps. And I think I'd say the third which is where we see a lot of adoption is around usage of the managed services that we have. If you take Palo Alto's example in this Palo Alto will speak better to it, but they have SOC services, right? That you can consume. So, they're performing that service for you. Similarly, on our side we have a HashiCorp Cloud Platform, HCP, where you can consume Vault as a service, you can consume Consul as a service. Terraform cloud is a managed service, so you don't need as many people to be able to run that service. And we abstract all the complexity associated with that by ourselves, right? So I'd say these are the three ways that we address it. >> So Zero Trust across big buzzword. We heard this in this morning keynotes, AWS is always saying, well, we'll talk about it too, but, okay, customers are starting to talk about Zero Trust. You talk to CISOs, they're like, yes, we're adopting this mentality of unless you're trusted, we don't trust you. So, okay, cool. So you think about the cloud you've got the shared responsibility model, and then you've got the application developers are being asked to do more, secure the code. You got the CISO now has to deal with not only the shared responsibility model, but shared responsibility models across clouds, and got to bring his or her security ethos to the app dev team, and then you got to audit kind of making sure they're like the last line of defense. So my question is when you think about code security and Zero Trust in that new environment the problem with a lot of the clouds is they don't make the CISOs life any easier. So I got to believe that your objective with Palo Alto is to actually make the organization's lives easier. So, how do you deal with all that complexity in specifically in a Zero Trust multicloud environment? >> Yeah, so I'll give you a specific example. So, on code to cloud security which is one of Palo Alto's sort of key focus area is that Prisma Cloud and Terraform Cloud example that I gave, right? Where you'd be able to use what we call run tasks essentially, web hook integrations to be able to get a run or provide some telemetry back to Prisma Cloud for customers to be able to make a decision. On the Zero Trust side, we partner both on the Prisma Cloud side, and the Cortex XSOAR side around our products of Vault and and Consul. So what Vault does is it allows you to control secrets, it allows you to store secrets. So a Prisma Cloud or a Cortex customer can be using secrets from Vault familiarly for that particular transaction or workflow itself, right? Rather than, and so it's based on identity, and not on the basis of just the secret sort of lying around. Same thing with console helps you with discovery, and management of services. So, Cortex and you can automate, a lot of this work can get automated using the product that I talked about from Zero Trust. I think the key thing for Zero Trust in our view is it is a end destination, right? So it'll take certain time, depends on the enterprise, depends on where things are. It's a question of specifically focusing on value that Palo Alto and HashiCorp's products bring to solve specific use cases within that Zero Trust bucket, and solve one problem at a time rather than try to say that, hey, only Palo Alto, and only HashiCorp or whatever will solve everything in Zero Trust, right? Because that is not going to be- >> And to your point, it's never going to end, right? I mean you're talk about Cortex bringing a lot of automation. You guys bring a lot of automation now Palo Alto just bought Cider Security. Now we're getting into supply chain. I mean it going to hit it at the edge and IoT, the people don't want another IoT stove pipe. >> Lisa: No. >> Right? They want that to be part of the whole picture. So, you're never done. >> Yeah, no, but it is this continuous journey, right? And again, different companies are different parts of that journey, and then you go and rinse and repeat, you maybe acquire another company, and then they have a different maturity, so you get them on board on this. And so we see this as a multi-generational shift as Dave like to call it. And we're happy to be in the middle of it with Palo Alto Networks. >> It's definitely a multi-generational shift. Asvin, it's been great having you back on theCUBE. Thank you for giving us the update on what Hashi and Palo Alto are doing, the value in it for customers, the cloud operating model. And we should mention that HashiCorp yesterday just won a Technology Partner of the Year award. Congratulations. Yes. >> We're very, very thrilled with the recognition from Palo Alto Networks for the Technology Partner of the Year. >> Congrats. >> Thank you Keep up the great partnership. Thank you so much. We appreciate your insights. >> Thank you so much. >> For our guest, and for Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin, live in Las Vegas. You watching theCUBE, the leader in live enterprise and emerging tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR, this is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> This past week we saw two of the Big 3 cloud providers present the latest update on their respective cloud visions, their business progress, their announcements and innovations. The content at these events had many overlapping themes, including modern cloud infrastructure at global scale, applying advanced machine intelligence, AKA AI, end-to-end data platforms, collaboration software. They talked a lot about the future of work automation. And they gave us a little taste, each company of the Metaverse Web 3.0 and much more. Despite these striking similarities, the differences between these two cloud platforms and that of AWS remains significant. With Microsoft leveraging its massive application software footprint to dominate virtually all markets and Google doing everything in its power to keep up with the frenetic pace of today's cloud innovation, which was set into motion a decade and a half ago by AWS. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights, powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we unpack the immense amount of content presented by the CEOs of Microsoft and Google Cloud at Microsoft Ignite and Google Cloud Next. We'll also quantify with ETR survey data the relative position of these two cloud giants in four key sectors: cloud IaaS, BI analytics, data platforms and collaboration software. Now one thing was clear this past week, hybrid events are the thing. Google Cloud Next took place live over a 24-hour period in six cities around the world, with the main gathering in New York City. Microsoft Ignite, which normally is attended by 30,000 people, had a smaller event in Seattle, in person with a virtual audience around the world. AWS re:Invent, of course, is much different. Yes, there's a virtual component at re:Invent, but it's all about a big live audience gathering the week after Thanksgiving, in the first week of December in Las Vegas. Regardless, Satya Nadella keynote address was prerecorded. It was highly produced and substantive. It was visionary, energetic with a strong message that Azure was a platform to allow customers to build their digital businesses. Doing more with less, which was a key theme of his. Nadella covered a lot of ground, starting with infrastructure from the compute, highlighting a collaboration with Arm-based, Ampere processors. New block storage, 60 regions, 175,000 miles of fiber cables around the world. He presented a meaningful multi-cloud message with Azure Arc to support on-prem and edge workloads, as well as of course the public cloud. And talked about confidential computing at the infrastructure level, a theme we hear from all cloud vendors. He then went deeper into the end-to-end data platform that Microsoft is building from the core data stores to analytics, to governance and the myriad tooling Microsoft offers. AI was next with a big focus on automation, AI, training models. He showed demos of machines coding and fixing code and machines automatically creating designs for creative workers and how Power Automate, Microsoft's RPA tooling, would combine with Microsoft Syntex to understand documents and provide standard ways for organizations to communicate with those documents. There was of course a big focus on Azure as developer cloud platform with GitHub Copilot as a linchpin using AI to assist coders in low-code and no-code innovations that are coming down the pipe. And another giant theme was a workforce transformation and how Microsoft is using its heritage and collaboration and productivity software to move beyond what Nadella called productivity paranoia, i.e., are remote workers doing their jobs? In a world where collaboration is built into intelligent workflows, and he even showed a glimpse of the future with AI-powered avatars and partnerships with Meta and Cisco with Teams of all firms. And finally, security with a bevy of tools from identity, endpoint, governance, et cetera, stressing a suite of tools from a single provider, i.e., Microsoft. So a couple points here. One, Microsoft is following in the footsteps of AWS with silicon advancements and didn't really emphasize that trend much except for the Ampere announcement. But it's building out cloud infrastructure at a massive scale, there is no debate about that. Its plan on data is to try and provide a somewhat more abstracted and simplified solutions, which differs a little bit from AWS's approach of the right database tool, for example, for the right job. Microsoft's automation play appears to provide simple individual productivity tools, kind of a ground up approach and make it really easy for users to drive these bottoms up initiatives. We heard from UiPath that forward five last month, a little bit of a different approach of horizontal automation, end-to-end across platforms. So quite a different play there. Microsoft's angle on workforce transformation is visionary and will continue to solidify in our view its dominant position with Teams and Microsoft 365, and it will drive cloud infrastructure consumption by default. On security as well as a cloud player, it has to have world-class security, and Azure does. There's not a lot of debate about that, but the knock on Microsoft is Patch Tuesday becomes Hack Wednesday because Microsoft releases so many patches, it's got so much Swiss cheese in its legacy estate and patching frequently, it becomes a roadmap and a trigger for hackers. Hey, patch Tuesday, these are all the exploits that you can go after so you can act before the patches are implemented. And so it's really become a problem for users. As well Microsoft is competing with many of the best-of-breed platforms like CrowdStrike and Okta, which have market momentum and appear to be more attractive horizontal plays for customers outside of just the Microsoft cloud. But again, it's Microsoft. They make it easy and very inexpensive to adopt. Now, despite the outstanding presentation by Satya Nadella, there are a couple of statements that should raise eyebrows. Here are two of them. First, as he said, Azure is the only cloud that supports all organizations and all workloads from enterprises to startups, to highly regulated industries. I had a conversation with Sarbjeet Johal about this, to make sure I wasn't just missing something and we were both surprised, somewhat, by this claim. I mean most certainly AWS supports more certifications for example, and we would think it has a reasonable case to dispute that claim. And the other statement, Nadella made, Azure is the only cloud provider enabling highly regulated industries to bring their most sensitive applications to the cloud. Now, reasonable people can debate whether AWS is there yet, but very clearly Oracle and IBM would have something to say about that statement. Now maybe it's not just, would say, "Oh, they're not real clouds, you know, they're just going to hosting in the cloud if you will." But still, when it comes to mission-critical applications, you would think Oracle is really the the leader there. Oh, and Satya also mentioned the claim that the Edge browser, the Microsoft Edge browser, no questions asked, he said, is the best browser for business. And we could see some people having some questions about that. Like isn't Edge based on Chrome? Anyway, so we just had to question these statements and challenge Microsoft to defend them because to us it's a little bit of BS and makes one wonder what else in such as awesome keynote and it was awesome, it was hyperbole. Okay, moving on to Google Cloud Next. The keynote started with Sundar Pichai doing a virtual session, he was remote, stressing the importance of Google Cloud. He mentioned that Google Cloud from its Q2 earnings was on a $25-billion annual run rate. What he didn't mention is that it's also on a 3.6 billion annual operating loss run rate based on its first half performance. Just saying. And we'll dig into that issue a little bit more later in this episode. He also stressed that the investments that Google has made to support its core business and search, like its global network of 22 subsea cables to support things like, YouTube video, great performance obviously that we all rely on, those innovations there. Innovations in BigQuery to support its search business and its threat analysis that it's always had and its AI, it's always been an AI-first company, he's stressed, that they're all leveraged by the Google Cloud Platform, GCP. This is all true by the way. Google has absolutely awesome tech and the talk, as well as his talk, Pichai, but also Kurian's was forward thinking and laid out a vision of the future. But it didn't address in our view, and I talked to Sarbjeet Johal about this as well, today's challenges to the degree that Microsoft did and we expect AWS will at re:Invent this year, it was more out there, more forward thinking, what's possible in the future, somewhat less about today's problem, so I think it's resonates less with today's enterprise players. Thomas Kurian then took over from Sundar Pichai and did a really good job of highlighting customers, and I think he has to, right? He has to say, "Look, we are in this game. We have customers, 9 out of the top 10 media firms use Google Cloud. 8 out of the top 10 manufacturers. 9 out of the top 10 retailers. Same for telecom, same for healthcare. 8 out of the top 10 retail banks." He and Sundar specifically referenced a number of companies, customers, including Avery Dennison, Groupe Renault, H&M, John Hopkins, Prudential, Minna Bank out of Japan, ANZ bank and many, many others during the session. So you know, they had some proof points and you got to give 'em props for that. Now like Microsoft, Google talked about infrastructure, they referenced training processors and regions and compute optionality and storage and how new workloads were emerging, particularly data-driven workloads in AI that required new infrastructure. He explicitly highlighted partnerships within Nvidia and Intel. I didn't see anything on Arm, which somewhat surprised me 'cause I believe Google's working on that or at least has come following in AWS's suit if you will, but maybe that's why they're not mentioning it or maybe I got to do more research there, but let's park that for a minute. But again, as we've extensively discussed in Breaking Analysis in our view when it comes to compute, AWS via its Annapurna acquisition is well ahead of the pack in this area. Arm is making its way into the enterprise, but all three companies are heavily investing in infrastructure, which is great news for customers and the ecosystem. We'll come back to that. Data and AI go hand in hand, and there was no shortage of data talk. Google didn't mention Snowflake or Databricks specifically, but it did mention, by the way, it mentioned Mongo a couple of times, but it did mention Google's, quote, Open Data cloud. Now maybe Google has used that term before, but Snowflake has been marketing the data cloud concept for a couple of years now. So that struck as a shot across the bow to one of its partners and obviously competitor, Snowflake. At BigQuery is a main centerpiece of Google's data strategy. Kurian talked about how they can take any data from any source in any format from any cloud provider with BigQuery Omni and aggregate and understand it. And with the support of Apache Iceberg and Delta and Hudi coming in the future and its open Data Cloud Alliance, they talked a lot about that. So without specifically mentioning Snowflake or Databricks, Kurian co-opted a lot of messaging from these two players, such as life and tech. Kurian also talked about Google Workspace and how it's now at 8 million users up from 6 million just two years ago. There's a lot of discussion on developer optionality and several details on tools supported and the open mantra of Google. And finally on security, Google brought out Kevin Mandian, he's a CUBE alum, extremely impressive individual who's CEO of Mandiant, a leading security service provider and consultancy that Google recently acquired for around 5.3 billion. They talked about moving from a shared responsibility model to a shared fate model, which is again, it's kind of a shot across AWS's bow, kind of shared responsibility model. It's unclear that Google will pay the same penalty if a customer doesn't live up to its portion of the shared responsibility, but we can probably assume that the customer is still going to bear the brunt of the pain, nonetheless. Mandiant is really interesting because it's a services play and Google has stated that it is not a services company, it's going to give partners in the channel plenty of room to play. So we'll see what it does with Mandiant. But Mandiant is a very strong enterprise capability and in the single most important area security. So interesting acquisition by Google. Now as well, unlike Microsoft, Google is not competing with security leaders like Okta and CrowdStrike. Rather, it's partnering aggressively with those firms and prominently putting them forth. All right. Let's get into the ETR survey data and see how Microsoft and Google are positioned in four key markets that we've mentioned before, IaaS, BI analytics, database data platforms and collaboration software. First, let's look at the IaaS cloud. ETR is just about to release its October survey, so I cannot share the that data yet. I can only show July data, but we're going to give you some directional hints throughout this conversation. This chart shows net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and overlap or presence in the data, i.e., how pervasive the platform is. That's on the horizontal axis. And we've inserted the Wikibon estimates of IaaS revenue for the companies, the Big 3. Actually the Big 4, we included Alibaba. So a couple of points in this somewhat busy data chart. First, Microsoft and AWS as always are dominant on both axes. The red dotted line there at 40% on the vertical axis. That represents a highly elevated spending velocity and all of the Big 3 are above the line. Now at the same time, GCP is well behind the two leaders on the horizontal axis and you can see that in the table insert as well in our revenue estimates. Now why is Azure bigger in the ETR survey when AWS is larger according to the Wikibon revenue estimates? And the answer is because Microsoft with products like 365 and Teams will often be considered by respondents in the survey as cloud by customers, so they fit into that ETR category. But in the insert data we're stripping out applications and SaaS from Microsoft and Google and we're only isolating on IaaS. The other point is when you take a look at the early October returns, you see downward pressure as signified by those dotted arrows on every name. The only exception was Dell, or Dell and IBM, which showing slightly improved momentum. So the survey data generally confirms what we know that AWS and Azure have a massive lead and strong momentum in the marketplace. But the real story is below the line. Unlike Google Cloud, which is on pace to lose well over 3 billion on an operating basis this year, AWS's operating profit is around $20 billion annually. Microsoft's Intelligent Cloud generated more than $30 billion in operating income last fiscal year. Let that sink in for a moment. Now again, that's not to say Google doesn't have traction, it does and Kurian gave some nice proof points and customer examples in his keynote presentation, but the data underscores the lead that Microsoft and AWS have on Google in cloud. And here's a breakdown of ETR's proprietary net score methodology, that vertical axis that we showed you in the previous chart. It asks customers, are you adopting the platform new? That's that lime green. Are you spending 6% or more? That's the forest green. Is you're spending flat? That's the gray. Is you're spending down 6% or worse? That's the pinkest color. Or are you replacing the platform, defecting? That's the bright red. You subtract the reds from the greens and you get a net score. Now one caveat here, which actually is really favorable from Microsoft, the Microsoft data that we're showing here is across the entire Microsoft portfolio. The other point is, this is July data, we'll have an update for you once ETR releases its October results. But we're talking about meaningful samples here, the ends. 620 for AWS over a thousand from Microsoft in more than 450 respondents in the survey for Google. So the real tell is replacements, that bright red. There is virtually no churn for AWS and Microsoft, but Google's churn is 5x, those two in the survey. Now 5% churn is not high, but you'd like to see three things for Google given it's smaller size. One is less churn, two is much, much higher adoption rates in the lime green. Three is a higher percentage of those spending more, the forest green. And four is a lower percentage of those spending less. And none of these conditions really applies here for Google. GCP is still not growing fast enough in our opinion, and doesn't have nearly the traction of the two leaders and that shows up in the survey data. All right, let's look at the next sector, BI analytics. Here we have that same XY dimension. Again, Microsoft dominating the picture. AWS very strong also in both axes. Tableau, very popular and respectable of course acquired by Salesforce on the vertical axis, still looking pretty good there. And again on the horizontal axis, big presence there for Tableau. And Google with Looker and its other platforms is also respectable, but it again, has some work to do. Now notice Streamlit, that's a recent Snowflake acquisition. It's strong in the vertical axis and because of Snowflake's go-to-market (indistinct), it's likely going to move to the right overtime. Grafana is also prominent in the Y axis, but a glimpse at the most recent survey data shows them slightly declining while Looker actually improves a bit. As does Cloudera, which we'll move up slightly. Again, Microsoft just blows you away, doesn't it? All right, now let's get into database and data platform. Same X Y dimensions, but now database and data warehouse. Snowflake as usual takes the top spot on the vertical axis and it is actually keeps moving to the right as well with again, Microsoft and AWS is dominant in the market, as is Oracle on the X axis, albeit it's got less spending velocity, but of course it's the database king. Google is well behind on the X axis but solidly above the 40% line on the vertical axis. Note that virtually all platforms will see pressure in the next survey due to the macro environment. Microsoft might even dip below the 40% line for the first time in a while. Lastly, let's look at the collaboration and productivity software market. This is such an important area for both Microsoft and Google. And just look at Microsoft with 365 and Teams up into the right. I mean just so impressive in ubiquitous. And we've highlighted Google. It's in the pack. It certainly is a nice base with 174 N, which I can tell you that N will rise in the next survey, which is an indication that more people are adopting. But given the investment and the tech behind it and all the AI and Google's resources, you'd really like to see Google in this space above the 40% line, given the importance of this market, of this collaboration area to Google's success and the degree to which they emphasize it in their pitch. And look, this brings up something that we've talked about before on Breaking Analysis. Google doesn't have a tech problem. This is a go-to-market and marketing challenge that Google faces and it's up against two go-to-market champs and Microsoft and AWS. And Google doesn't have the enterprise sales culture. It's trying, it's making progress, but it's like that racehorse that has all the potential in the world, but it's just missing some kind of key ingredient to put it over at the top. It's always coming in third, (chuckles) but we're watching and Google's obviously, making some investments as we shared with earlier. All right. Some final thoughts on what we learned this week and in this research: customers and partners should be thrilled that both Microsoft and Google along with AWS are spending so much money on innovation and building out global platforms. This is a gift to the industry and we should be thankful frankly because it's good for business, it's good for competitiveness and future innovation as a platform that can be built upon. Now we didn't talk much about multi-cloud, we haven't even mentioned supercloud, but both Microsoft and Google have a story that resonates with customers in cross cloud capabilities, unlike AWS at this time. But we never say never when it comes to AWS. They sometimes and oftentimes surprise you. One of the other things that Sarbjeet Johal and John Furrier and I have discussed is that each of the Big 3 is positioning to their respective strengths. AWS is the best IaaS. Microsoft is building out the kind of, quote, we-make-it-easy-for-you cloud, and Google is trying to be the open data cloud with its open-source chops and excellent tech. And that puts added pressure on Snowflake, doesn't it? You know, Thomas Kurian made some comments according to CRN, something to the effect that, we are the only company that can do the data cloud thing across clouds, which again, if I'm being honest is not really accurate. Now I haven't clarified these statements with Google and often things get misquoted, but there's little question that, as AWS has done in the past with Redshift, Google is taking a page out of Snowflake, Databricks as well. A big difference in the Big 3 is that AWS doesn't have this big emphasis on the up-the-stack collaboration software that both Microsoft and Google have, and that for Microsoft and Google will drive captive IaaS consumption. AWS obviously does some of that in database, a lot of that in database, but ISVs that compete with Microsoft and Google should have a greater affinity, one would think, to AWS for competitive reasons. and the same thing could be said in security, we would think because, as I mentioned before, Microsoft competes very directly with CrowdStrike and Okta and others. One of the big thing that Sarbjeet mentioned that I want to call out here, I'd love to have your opinion. AWS specifically, but also Microsoft with Azure have successfully created what Sarbjeet calls brand distance. AWS from the Amazon Retail, and even though AWS all the time talks about Amazon X and Amazon Y is in their product portfolio, but you don't really consider it part of the retail organization 'cause it's not. Azure, same thing, has created its own identity. And it seems that Google still struggles to do that. It's still very highly linked to the sort of core of Google. Now, maybe that's by design, but for enterprise customers, there's still some potential confusion with Google, what's its intentions? How long will they continue to lose money and invest? Are they going to pull the plug like they do on so many other tools? So you know, maybe some rethinking of the marketing there and the positioning. Now we didn't talk much about ecosystem, but it's vital for any cloud player, and Google again has some work to do relative to the leaders. Which brings us to supercloud. The ecosystem and end customers are now in a position this decade to digitally transform. And we're talking here about building out their own clouds, not by putting in and building data centers and installing racks of servers and storage devices, no. Rather to build value on top of the hyperscaler gift that has been presented. And that is a mega trend that we're watching closely in theCUBE community. While there's debate about the supercloud name and so forth, there little question in our minds that the next decade of cloud will not be like the last. All right, we're going to leave it there today. Many thanks to Sarbjeet Johal, and my business partner, John Furrier, for their input to today's episode. Thanks to Alex Myerson who's on production and manages the podcast and Ken Schiffman as well. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight helped get the word out on social media and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at SiliconANGLE, who does some wonderful editing. And check out SiliconANGLE, a lot of coverage on Google Cloud Next and Microsoft Ignite. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcast wherever you listen. Just search Breaking Analysis podcast. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. And you can always get in touch with me via email, david.vellante@siliconangle.com or you can DM me at dvellante or comment on my LinkedIn posts. And please do check out etr.ai, the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for the CUBE Insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on Breaking Analysis. (gentle music)

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> Virtually all tech companies have expressed caution in their respective earnings calls, and why not? I know you're sick in talking about the macroeconomic environment, but it's full of uncertainties and there's no upside to providing aggressive guidance when sellers are in control. They punish even the slightest miss. Moreover, the spending data confirms the softening market across the board, so it's becoming expected that CFOs will guide cautiously. But companies facing execution challenges, they can't hide behind the macro, which is why it's important to understand which firms are best positioned to maintain momentum through the headwinds and come out the other side stronger. Hello, and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this "Breaking Analysis," we'll do three things. First, we're going to share a high-level view of the spending pinch that almost all sectors are experiencing. Second, we're going to highlight some of those companies that continue to show notably strong momentum and relatively high spending velocity on their platforms, albeit less robust than last year. And third, we're going to give you a peak at how one senior technology leader in the financial sector sees the competitive dynamic between AWS, Snowflake, and Databricks. So I landed on the red eye this morning and opened my eyes, and then opened my email to see this. My Barron's Daily had a headline telling me how bad things are and why they could get worse. The S&P Thursday hit a new closing low for the year. The safe haven of bonds are sucking wind. The market hasn't seemed to find a floor. Central banks are raising rates. Inflation is still high, but the job market remains strong. Oh, not to mention that the US debt service is headed toward a trillion dollars per year, and the geopolitical situation is pretty tense, and Europe seems to be really struggling. Yeah, so the Santa Claus rally is really looking pretty precarious, especially if there's a liquidity crunch coming, like guess why they call Barron's Barron's. Last week, we showed you this graphic ahead of the UiPath event. For months, the big four sectors, cloud, containers, AI, and RPA, have shown spending momentum above the rest. Now, this chart shows net score or spending velocity on specific sectors, and these four have consistently trended above the 40% red line for two years now, until this past ETR survey. ML/AI and RPA have decelerated as shown by the squiggly lines, and our premise was that they are more discretionary than the other sectors. The big four is now the big two: cloud and containers. But the reality is almost every sector in the ETR taxonomy is down as shown here. This chart shows the sectors that have decreased in a meaningful way. Almost all sectors are now below the trend line and only cloud and containers, as we showed earlier, are above the magic 40% mark. Container platforms and container orchestration are those gray dots. And no sector has shown a significant increase in spending velocity relative to October 2021 survey. In addition to ML/AI and RPA, information security, yes, security, virtualizations, video conferencing, outsourced IT, syndicated research. Syndicated research, yeah, those Gartner, IDC, Forrester, they stand out as seemingly the most discretionary, although we would argue that security is less discretionary. But what you're seeing is a share shift as we've previously reported toward modern platforms and away from point tools. But the point is there is no sector that is immune from the macroeconomic environment. Although remember, as we reported last week, we're still expecting five to 6% IT spending growth this year relative to 2021, but it's a dynamic environment. So let's now take a look at some of the key players and see how they're performing on a relative basis. This chart shows the net score or spending momentum on the y-axis and the pervasiveness of the vendor within the ETR survey measured as the percentage of respondents citing the vendor in use. As usual, Microsoft and AWS stand out because they are both pervasive on the x-axis and they're highly elevated on the vertical axis. For two companies of this size that demonstrate and maintain net scores above the 40% mark is extremely impressive. Although AWS is now showing much higher on the vertical scale relative to Microsoft, which is a new trend. Normally, we see Microsoft dominating on both dimensions. Salesforce is impressive as well because it's so large, but it's below those two on the vertical axis. Now, Google is meaningfully large, but relative to the other big public clouds, AWS and Azure, we see this as disappointing. John Blackledge of Cowen went on CNBC this past week and said that GCP, by his estimates, are 75% of Google Cloud's reported revenue and is now only five years behind AWS in Azure. Now, our models say, "No way." Google Cloud Platform, by our estimate, is running at about $3 billion per quarter or more like 60% of Google's reported overall cloud revenue. You have to go back to 2016 to find AWS running at that level and 2018 for Azure. So we would estimate that GCP is six years behind AWS and four years behind Azure from a revenue performance standpoint. Now, tech-wise, you can make a stronger case for Google. They have really strong tech. But revenue is, in our view, a really good indicator. Now, we circle here ServiceNow because they have become a generational company and impressively remain above the 40% line. We were at CrowdStrike with theCUBE two weeks ago, and we saw firsthand what we see as another generational company in the making. And you can see the company spending momentum is quite impressive. Now, HashiCorp and Snowflake have now surpassed Kubernetes to claim the top net score spots. Now, we know Kubernetes isn't a company, but ETR tracks it as though it were just for context. And we've highlighted Databricks as well, showing momentum, but it doesn't have the market presence of Snowflake. And there are a number of other players in the green: Pure Storage, Workday, Elastic, JFrog, Datadog, Palo Alto, Zscaler, CyberArk, Fortinet. Those last ones are in security, but again, they're all off their recent highs of 2021 and early 2022. Now, speaking of AWS, Snowflake, and Databricks, our colleague Eric Bradley of ETR recently held an in-depth interview with a senior executive at a large financial institution to dig into the analytics space. And there were some interesting takeaways that we'd like to share. The first is a discussion about whether or not AWS can usurp Snowflake as the top dog in analytics. I'll let you read this at your at your leisure, but I'll pull out some call-outs as indicated by the red lines. This individual's take was quite interesting. Note the comment that quote, this is my area of expertise. This person cited AWS's numerous databases as problematic, but Redshift was cited as the closest competitors to Snowflake. This individual also called out Snowflake's current cross-cloud Advantage, what we sometimes call supercloud, as well as the value add in their marketplace as a differentiator. But the point is this person was actually making, the point that this person was actually making is that cloud vendors make a lot of money from Snowflake. AWS, for example, see Snowflake as much more of a partner than a competitor. And as we've reported, Snowflake drives a lot of EC2 and storage revenue for AWS. Now, as well, this doesn't mean AWS does not have a strong marketplace. It does. Probably the best in the business, but the point is Snowflake's marketplace is exclusively focused on a data marketplace and the company's challenge or opportunity is to build up that ecosystem and to continue to add partners and create network effects that allow them to create long-term sustainable moat for the company, while at the same time, staying ahead of the competition with innovation. Now, the other comment that caught our attention was Snowflake's differentiators. This individual cited three areas. One, the well-known separation of compute and storage, which, of course, AWS has replicated sort of, maybe not as elegant in the sense that you can reduce the compute load with Redshift, but unlike Snowflake, you can't shut it down. Two, with Snowflake's data sharing capability, which is becoming quite well-known and a key part of its value proposition. And three, its marketplace. And again, key opportunity for Snowflake to build out its ecosystem. Close feature gaps that it's not necessarily going to deliver on its own. And really importantly, create governed and secure data sharing experiences for anyone on the data cloud or across clouds. Now, the last thing this individual addressed in the ETR interview that we'll share is how Databricks and Snowflake are attacking a similar problem, i.e. simplifying data, data sharing, and getting more value from data. The key messages here are there's overlap with these two platforms, but Databricks appeals to a more techy crowd. You open a notebook, when you're working with Databricks, you're more likely to be a data scientist, whereas with Snowflake, you're more likely to be aligned with the lines of business within sometimes an industry emphasis. We've talked about this quite often on "Breaking Analysis." Snowflake is moving into the data science arena from its data warehouse strength, and Databricks is moving into analytics and the world of SQL from its AI/ML position of strength, and both companies are doing well, although Snowflake was able to get to the public markets at IPO, Databricks has not. Now, even though Snowflake is on the quarterly shock clock as we saw earlier, it has a larger presence in the market. That's at least partly due to the tailwind of an IPO, and, of course, a stronger go-to market posture. Okay, so we wanted to share some of that with you, and I realize it's a bit of a tangent, but it's good stuff from a qualitative practitioner perspective. All right, let's close with some final thoughts. Look forward a little bit. Things in the short-term are really hard to predict. We've seen these oversold rallies peter out for the last couple of months because the world is such a mess right now, and it's really difficult to reconcile these counterveiling trends. Nothing seems to be working from a public policy perspective. Now, we know tech spending is softening, but let's not forget it, five to 6% growth. It's at or above historical norms, but there's no question the trend line is down. That said, there are certain growth companies, several mentioned in this episode, that are modern and vying to be generational platforms. They're well-positioned, financially sound, disciplined, with strong cash positions, with inherent profitability. What I mean by that is they can dial down growth if they wanted to, dial up EBIT, but being a growth company today is not what it was a year ago. Because of rising rates, the discounted cash flows are just less attractive. So earnings estimates, along with revenue multiples on these growth companies, are reverting toward the mean. However, companies like Snowflake, and CrowdStrike, and some others are able to still command a relative premium because of their execution and continued momentum. Others, as we reported last week, like UiPath for example, despite really strong momentum and customer spending, have had execution challenges. Okta is another example of a company with strong spending momentum, but is absorbing off zero for example. And as a result, they're getting hit harder from evaluation standpoint. The bottom line is sellers are still firmly in control, the bulls have been humbled, and the traders aren't buying growth tech or much tech at all right now. But long-term investors are looking for entry points because these generational companies are going to be worth significantly more five to 10 years down the line. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks for watching this "Breaking Analysis" episode. Thanks to Alex Myerson and Ken Schiffman on production. And Alex manages our podcast as well. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight. They help get the word out on social media and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our editor-in-chief over at SiliconANGLE do some wonderful editing for us, so thank you. Thank you all. Remember that all these episodes are available as podcast wherever you listen. All you do is search "Breaking Analysis" podcast. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and you can email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com, or DM me @dvellante, or comment on my LinkedIn post. And please check out etr.ai for the very best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, and we'll see you next time on "Breaking Analysis." (gentle music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> The rapid pace of cloud adoption has changed the way organizations approach cybersecurity. Specifically, the cloud is increasingly becoming the first line of cyber defense. As such, along with communicating to the board and creating a security aware culture, the chief information security officer must ensure that the shared responsibility model is being applied properly. Meanwhile, the DevSecOps team has emerged as the critical link between strategy and execution, while audit becomes the free safety, if you will, in the equation, i.e., the last line of defense. Hello, and welcome to this week's, we keep on CUBE Insights, powered by ETR. In this "Breaking Analysis", we'll share the latest data on hyperscale, IaaS, and PaaS market performance, along with some fresh ETR survey data. And we'll share some highlights and the puts and takes from the recent AWS re:Inforce event in Boston. But first, the macro. It's earning season, and that's what many people want to talk about, including us. As we reported last week, the macro spending picture is very mixed and weird. Think back to a week ago when SNAP reported. A player like SNAP misses and the Nasdaq drops 300 points. Meanwhile, Intel, the great semiconductor hope for America misses by a mile, cuts its revenue outlook by 15% for the year, and the Nasdaq was up nearly 250 points just ahead of the close, go figure. Earnings reports from Meta, Google, Microsoft, ServiceNow, and some others underscored cautious outlooks, especially those exposed to the advertising revenue sector. But at the same time, Apple, Microsoft, and Google, were, let's say less bad than expected. And that brought a sigh of relief. And then there's Amazon, which beat on revenue, it beat on cloud revenue, and it gave positive guidance. The Nasdaq has seen this month best month since the isolation economy, which "Breaking Analysis" contributor, Chip Symington, attributes to what he calls an oversold rally. But there are many unknowns that remain. How bad will inflation be? Will the fed really stop tightening after September? The Senate just approved a big spending bill along with corporate tax hikes, which generally don't favor the economy. And on Monday, August 1st, the market will likely realize that we are in the summer quarter, and there's some work to be done. Which is why it's not surprising that investors sold the Nasdaq at the close today on Friday. Are people ready to call the bottom? Hmm, some maybe, but there's still lots of uncertainty. However, the cloud continues its march, despite some very slight deceleration in growth rates from the two leaders. Here's an update of our big four IaaS quarterly revenue data. The big four hyperscalers will account for $165 billion in revenue this year, slightly lower than what we had last quarter. We expect AWS to surpass 83 billion this year in revenue. Azure will be more than 2/3rds the size of AWS, a milestone from Microsoft. Both AWS and Azure came in slightly below our expectations, but still very solid growth at 33% and 46% respectively. GCP, Google Cloud Platform is the big concern. By our estimates GCP's growth rate decelerated from 47% in Q1, and was 38% this past quarter. The company is struggling to keep up with the two giants. Remember, both GCP and Azure, they play a shell game and hide the ball on their IaaS numbers, so we have to use a survey data and other means of estimating. But this is how we see the market shaping up in 2022. Now, before we leave the overall cloud discussion, here's some ETR data that shows the net score or spending momentum granularity for each of the hyperscalers. These bars show the breakdown for each company, with net score on the right and in parenthesis, net score from last quarter. lime green is new adoptions, forest green is spending up 6% or more, the gray is flat, pink is spending at 6% down or worse, and the bright red is replacement or churn. Subtract the reds from the greens and you get net score. One note is this is for each company's overall portfolio. So it's not just cloud. So it's a bit of a mixed bag, but there are a couple points worth noting. First, anything above 40% or 40, here as shown in the chart, is considered elevated. AWS, as you can see, is well above that 40% mark, as is Microsoft. And if you isolate Microsoft's Azure, only Azure, it jumps above AWS's momentum. Google is just barely hanging on to that 40 line, and Alibaba is well below, with both Google and Alibaba showing much higher replacements, that bright red. But here's the key point. AWS and Azure have virtually no churn, no replacements in that bright red. And all four companies are experiencing single-digit numbers in terms of decreased spending within customer accounts. People may be moving some workloads back on-prem selectively, but repatriation is definitely not a trend to bet the house on, in our view. Okay, let's get to the main subject of this "Breaking Analysis". TheCube was at AWS re:Inforce in Boston this week, and we have some observations to share. First, we had keynotes from Steven Schmidt who used to be the chief information security officer at Amazon on Web Services, now he's the CSO, the chief security officer of Amazon. Overall, he dropped the I in his title. CJ Moses is the CISO for AWS. Kurt Kufeld of AWS also spoke, as did Lena Smart, who's the MongoDB CISO, and she keynoted and also came on theCUBE. We'll go back to her in a moment. The key point Schmidt made, one of them anyway, was that Amazon sees more data points in a day than most organizations see in a lifetime. Actually, it adds up to quadrillions over a fairly short period of time, I think, it was within a month. That's quadrillion, it's 15 zeros, by the way. Now, there was drill down focus on data protection and privacy, governance, risk, and compliance, GRC, identity, big, big topic, both within AWS and the ecosystem, network security, and threat detection. Those are the five really highlighted areas. Re:Inforce is really about bringing a lot of best practice guidance to security practitioners, like how to get the most out of AWS tooling. Schmidt had a very strong statement saying, he said, "I can assure you with a 100% certainty that single controls and binary states will absolutely positively fail." Hence, the importance of course, of layered security. We heard a little bit of chat about getting ready for the future and skating to the security puck where quantum computing threatens to hack all of the existing cryptographic algorithms, and how AWS is trying to get in front of all that, and a new set of algorithms came out, AWS is testing. And, you know, we'll talk about that maybe in the future, but that's a ways off. And by its prominent presence, the ecosystem was there enforced, to talk about their role and filling the gaps and picking up where AWS leaves off. We heard a little bit about ransomware defense, but surprisingly, at least in the keynotes, no discussion about air gaps, which we've talked about in previous "Breaking Analysis", is a key factor. We heard a lot about services to help with threat detection and container security and DevOps, et cetera, but there really wasn't a lot of specific talk about how AWS is simplifying the life of the CISO. Now, maybe it's inherently assumed as AWS did a good job stressing that security is job number one, very credible and believable in that front. But you have to wonder if the world is getting simpler or more complex with cloud. And, you know, you might say, "Well, Dave, come on, of course it's better with cloud." But look, attacks are up, the threat surface is expanding, and new exfiltration records are being set every day. I think the hard truth is, the cloud is driving businesses forward and accelerating digital, and those businesses are now exposed more than ever. And that's why security has become such an important topic to boards and throughout the entire organization. Now, the other epiphany that we had at re:Inforce is that there are new layers and a new trust framework emerging in cyber. Roles are shifting, and as a direct result of the cloud, things are changing within organizations. And this first hit me in a conversation with long-time cyber practitioner and Wikibon colleague from our early Wikibon days, and friend, Mike Versace. And I spent two days testing the premise that Michael and I talked about. And here's an attempt to put that conversation into a graphic. The cloud is now the first line of defense. AWS specifically, but hyperscalers generally provide the services, the talent, the best practices, and automation tools to secure infrastructure and their physical data centers. And they're really good at it. The security inside of hyperscaler clouds is best of breed, it's world class. And that first line of defense does take some of the responsibility off of CISOs, but they have to understand and apply the shared responsibility model, where the cloud provider leaves it to the customer, of course, to make sure that the infrastructure they're deploying is properly configured. So in addition to creating a cyber aware culture and communicating up to the board, the CISO has to ensure compliance with and adherence to the model. That includes attracting and retaining the talent necessary to succeed. Now, on the subject of building a security culture, listen to this clip on one of the techniques that Lena Smart, remember, she's the CISO of MongoDB, one of the techniques she uses to foster awareness and build security cultures in her organization. Play the clip >> Having the Security Champion program, so that's just, it's like one of my babies. That and helping underrepresented groups in MongoDB kind of get on in the tech world are both really important to me. And so the Security Champion program is purely purely voluntary. We have over 100 members. And these are people, there's no bar to join, you don't have to be technical. If you're an executive assistant who wants to learn more about security, like my assistant does, you're more than welcome. Up to, we actually, people grade themselves when they join us. We give them a little tick box, like five is, I walk on security water, one is I can spell security, but I'd like to learn more. Mixing those groups together has been game-changing for us. >> Now, the next layer is really where it gets interesting. DevSecOps, you know, we hear about it all the time, shifting left. It implies designing security into the code at the dev level. Shift left and shield right is the kind of buzz phrase. But it's getting more and more complicated. So there are layers within the development cycle, i.e., securing the container. So the app code can't be threatened by backdoors or weaknesses in the containers. Then, securing the runtime to make sure the code is maintained and compliant. Then, the DevOps platform so that change management doesn't create gaps and exposures, and screw things up. And this is just for the application security side of the equation. What about the network and implementing zero trust principles, and securing endpoints, and machine to machine, and human to app communication? So there's a lot of burden being placed on the DevOps team, and they have to partner with the SecOps team to succeed. Those guys are not security experts. And finally, there's audit, which is the last line of defense or what I called at the open, the free safety, for you football fans. They have to do more than just tick the box for the board. That doesn't cut it anymore. They really have to know their stuff and make sure that what they sign off on is real. And then you throw ESG into the mix is becoming more important, making sure the supply chain is green and also secure. So you can see, while much of this stuff has been around for a long, long time, the cloud is accelerating innovation in the pace of delivery. And so much is changing as a result. Now, next, I want to share a graphic that we shared last week, but a little different twist. It's an XY graphic with net score or spending velocity in the vertical axis and overlap or presence in the dataset on the horizontal. With that magic 40% red line as shown. Okay, I won't dig into the data and draw conclusions 'cause we did that last week, but two points I want to make. First, look at Microsoft in the upper-right hand corner. They are big in security and they're attracting a lot of dollars in the space. We've reported on this for a while. They're a five-star security company. And every time, from a spending standpoint in ETR data, that little methodology we use, every time I've run this chart, I've wondered, where the heck is AWS? Why aren't they showing up there? If security is so important to AWS, which it is, and its customers, why aren't they spending money with Amazon on security? And I asked this very question to Merrit Baer, who resides in the office of the CISO at AWS. Listen to her answer. >> It doesn't mean don't spend on security. There is a lot of goodness that we have to offer in ESS, external security services. But I think one of the unique parts of AWS is that we don't believe that security is something you should buy, it's something that you get from us. It's something that we do for you a lot of the time. I mean, this is the definition of the shared responsibility model, right? >> Now, maybe that's good messaging to the market. Merritt, you know, didn't say it outright, but essentially, Microsoft they charge for security. At AWS, it comes with the package. But it does answer my question. And, of course, the fact is that AWS can subsidize all this with egress charges. Now, on the flip side of that, (chuckles) you got Microsoft, you know, they're both, they're competing now. We can take CrowdStrike for instance. Microsoft and CrowdStrike, they compete with each other head to head. So it's an interesting dynamic within the ecosystem. Okay, but I want to turn to a powerful example of how AWS designs in security. And that is the idea of confidential computing. Of course, AWS is not the only one, but we're coming off of re:Inforce, and I really want to dig into something that David Floyer and I have talked about in previous episodes. And we had an opportunity to sit down with Arvind Raghu and J.D. Bean, two security experts from AWS, to talk about this subject. And let's share what we learned and why we think it matters. First, what is confidential computing? That's what this slide is designed to convey. To AWS, they would describe it this way. It's the use of special hardware and the associated firmware that protects customer code and data from any unauthorized access while the data is in use, i.e., while it's being processed. That's oftentimes a security gap. And there are two dimensions here. One is protecting the data and the code from operators on the cloud provider, i.e, in this case, AWS, and protecting the data and code from the customers themselves. In other words, from admin level users are possible malicious actors on the customer side where the code and data is being processed. And there are three capabilities that enable this. First, the AWS Nitro System, which is the foundation for virtualization. The second is Nitro Enclaves, which isolate environments, and then third, the Nitro Trusted Platform Module, TPM, which enables cryptographic assurances of the integrity of the Nitro instances. Now, we've talked about Nitro in the past, and we think it's a revolutionary innovation, so let's dig into that a bit. This is an AWS slide that was shared about how they protect and isolate data and code. On the left-hand side is a classical view of a virtualized architecture. You have a single host or a single server, and those white boxes represent processes on the main board, X86, or could be Intel, or AMD, or alternative architectures. And you have the hypervisor at the bottom which translates instructions to the CPU, allowing direct execution from a virtual machine into the CPU. But notice, you also have blocks for networking, and storage, and security. And the hypervisor emulates or translates IOS between the physical resources and the virtual machines. And it creates some overhead. Now, companies like VMware have done a great job, and others, of stripping out some of that overhead, but there's still an overhead there. That's why people still like to run on bare metal. Now, and while it's not shown in the graphic, there's an operating system in there somewhere, which is privileged, so it's got access to these resources, and it provides the services to the VMs. Now, on the right-hand side, you have the Nitro system. And you can see immediately the differences between the left and right, because the networking, the storage, and the security, the management, et cetera, they've been separated from the hypervisor and that main board, which has the Intel, AMD, throw in Graviton and Trainium, you know, whatever XPUs are in use in the cloud. And you can see that orange Nitro hypervisor. That is a purpose-built lightweight component for this system. And all the other functions are separated in isolated domains. So very strong isolation between the cloud software and the physical hardware running workloads, i.e., those white boxes on the main board. Now, this will run at practically bare metal speeds, and there are other benefits as well. One of the biggest is security. As we've previously reported, this came out of AWS's acquisition of Annapurna Labs, which we've estimated was picked up for a measly $350 million, which is a drop in the bucket for AWS to get such a strategic asset. And there are three enablers on this side. One is the Nitro cards, which are accelerators to offload that wasted work that's done in traditional architectures by typically the X86. We've estimated 25% to 30% of core capacity and cycles is wasted on those offloads. The second is the Nitro security chip, which is embedded and extends the root of trust to the main board hardware. And finally, the Nitro hypervisor, which allocates memory and CPU resources. So the Nitro cards communicate directly with the VMs without the hypervisors getting in the way, and they're not in the path. And all that data is encrypted while it's in motion, and of course, encryption at rest has been around for a while. We asked AWS, is this an, we presumed it was an Arm-based architecture. We wanted to confirm that. Or is it some other type of maybe hybrid using X86 and Arm? They told us the following, and quote, "The SoC, system on chips, for these hardware components are purpose-built and custom designed in-house by Amazon and Annapurna Labs. The same group responsible for other silicon innovations such as Graviton, Inferentia, Trainium, and AQUA. Now, the Nitro cards are Arm-based and do not use any X86 or X86/64 bit CPUs. Okay, so it confirms what we thought. So you may say, "Why should we even care about all this technical mumbo jumbo, Dave?" Well, a year ago, David Floyer and I published this piece explaining why Nitro and Graviton are secret weapons of Amazon that have been a decade in the making, and why everybody needs some type of Nitro to compete in the future. This is enabled, this Nitro innovations and the custom silicon enabled by the Annapurna acquisition. And AWS has the volume economics to make custom silicon. Not everybody can do it. And it's leveraging the Arm ecosystem, the standard software, and the fabrication volume, the manufacturing volume to revolutionize enterprise computing. Nitro, with the alternative processor, architectures like Graviton and others, enables AWS to be on a performance, cost, and power consumption curve that blows away anything we've ever seen from Intel. And Intel's disastrous earnings results that we saw this past week are a symptom of this mega trend that we've been talking about for years. In the same way that Intel and X86 destroyed the market for RISC chips, thanks to PC volumes, Arm is blowing away X86 with volume economics that cannot be matched by Intel. Thanks to, of course, to mobile and edge. Our prediction is that these innovations and the Arm ecosystem are migrating and will migrate further into enterprise computing, which is Intel's stronghold. Now, that stronghold is getting eaten away by the likes of AMD, Nvidia, and of course, Arm in the form of Graviton and other Arm-based alternatives. Apple, Tesla, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Alibaba, and others are all designing custom silicon, and doing so much faster than Intel can go from design to tape out, roughly cutting that time in half. And the premise of this piece is that every company needs a Nitro to enable alternatives to the X86 in order to support emergent workloads that are data rich and AI-based, and to compete from an economic standpoint. So while at re:Inforce, we heard that the impetus for Nitro was security. Of course, the Arm ecosystem, and its ascendancy has enabled, in our view, AWS to create a platform that will set the enterprise computing market this decade and beyond. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks to Alex Morrison, who is on production. And he does the podcast. And Ken Schiffman, our newest member of our Boston Studio team is also on production. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight help spread the word on social media and in the community. And Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at SiliconANGLE. He does some great, great work for us. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcast. Wherever you listen, just search "Breaking Analysis" podcast. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. Or you can email me directly at David.Vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me @dvellante, comment on my LinkedIn post. And please do check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching. Be well, and we'll see you next time on "Breaking Analysis." (upbeat theme music)

>>the Cube presents H p E discover 2022. Brought to you by H P E. >>Okay, we're back at HPD. Discovered 2022 This is Day Three. We're kind of in the mid point of day three. John Furry and Dave Volonte Wall to wall coverage. I think there are 14th hp slash hp Discover we've sort of documented the history of the company over the last decade. Plus, I'm not a is here is executive vice president at Infosys and Cejudo. Sankaran Kutty is the CEO and vice president of Infosys. Infosys doing some amazing work in the field with clients. Guys, Thanks for coming on the Cube. Thank >>you for the opportunity. >>Yeah, absolutely so. Digital transformation. It's all the buzz word kind of pre pandemic. It was sort of Yeah, you know, we'll get there a lot of lip service to it. Some Some started the journey and then, of course, pandemic. If you weren't digital business, you are out of business. What are the trends that you're seeing now that we're exiting the isolation economy? >>Yeah, um, again, as you rightly called out pre pandemic, it was all about using sort of you know innovation at scale as one of the levers for digital transformation. But if you look at now, post Pandemic, one of the things that we see it's a big trend is at a broad level, right? Digital transformation is not about cost. Take out. Uh, it's all about growth, right? So essentially, uh, like, uh, what we hear from most of the CEO s and most of the customers and most of the executives in the tech company, Digital transformation should be used for business growth. And essentially, it means three things that we see three trends in that space. One is how can you build better products and solutions as part of your transformation strategy? How can you basically use digital transformation to expand into new markets and new new territories and new regions? And the third is, how can you better the experience for your customers? Right. So I think that is broadly what we see as, uh, some other things. And essentially, if you have better customer experience, they will buy more. If you expand into new markets, your revenue will increase. If you actually build better products and solutions, consumers will buy it right, so It's basically like a sort of an economy that goes hand in hand. So I would say the trend is clearly going towards business growth than anything else when it comes to the, >>you know, follow up on that. We had I d. C on yesterday and they were sharing with some of their high level numbers. We've looked at this and and and it seems like I t spending is pretty consistent despite the fact that, for example, you know, the to see the consumer businesses sort of tanking right now. Are you seeing any pullback or any evidence that people are pulling the reins back on the digital transformation Or they just going because if they don't keep keep moving fast, they're gonna fall behind. What are you seeing there? Absolutely. >>In fact, you know what? What we call them as the secular headwinds, right? I mean, if you look at the headwinds here, we see digital transformation is in the minds of everybody, every customer, right. So while there are budget constraints, where are all these macro tailwinds as we call with respect to inflation, with respect to what's happening with Russia and Ukraine with respect to everything that's happening with respect to supply chain right. I think we see some of those tail headwinds. But essentially, digital transformation is not stopping. Everybody is going after that because essentially they want to be relevant in the market. And if they want to be relevant in the market, they have to transform. And if they have to transform, they have to adopt digital transformation. >>Basically, there's no hiding anymore. You know, hiding and you can't hide the projects and give lip service because there's evidence of what the consequences are. And it can be quantified. Yes, you go out of business, you lose money. You mentioned some of the the cost takeouts growth is yes. So I got given the trends and the headwinds and the tail winds. What are you guys seeing as the pattern of companies that came out of the pandemic with growth? And what's going on with that growth driver? What are the elements that are powering companies to grow? Is that machine learning? Is that cloud scales and integration? What are some of the key areas that's given that extra up into the right? >>Yes, I I would say there are six technologies that are defining how growth is being enabled, right? So I think we call it as cloud ai edge five g, Iot and of course, everything to do with a And so these are six technologies that are powering digital transformation. And, uh, one of the things that we are saying is more and more customers are now coming and saying that we want to use these six technologies to drive business outcomes. Uh, for example, uh, we have a very large oil and gas customer of ours who says that, you know, we want to basically use cloud as a lever to Dr Decarbonization. E S G is such a big initiative for everybody in the SGS in the minds of everybody. So their outcome of using technology is to drive decarbonization. And they don't make sure that, you know, they achieve the goals of E. S G. Right There is another customer of ours in the retail space. They are saying we want to use cloud to drive experience for our employees. So I would say that you know, there is pretty much, you know, all these drivers which are helping not just growing their business, but also bettering the experience and meeting some of the organisation goals that they have set up with respect to cloud. So I would say Cloud is playing a big role in every digital transformation initiative of the company. >>How do you spend your time? What's the role of the CEO inside of a large organisation like Infosys? >>So, um, one is in terms of bringing in an outside in view of how technology is making an impact to our customers. And I'm looking at How do we actually start liberating some of these technologies in building solutions, you know, which can actually drive value for our customers? That's one of the focus areas. You know what I do? Um, And if you look at some of the trends, you know what we have seen in the past years as well as what we're seeing now? Uh, there's been a huge spend around cloud which is happening with our customers and predominantly around the cloud Native application development, leveraging some of the services. What's available from the cloud providers like eh? I am l in Hyoty. Um, and and there's also a new trend. You know what we are seeing off late now, which is, um, in terms of improving the experience overall experience liberating some of the technologies, like technologies like block, block, chain as well as we are, we are right, and and this is actually creating new set of solutions. Um, new demands, you know, for our customers in terms of leveraging technologies like matadors leveraging technologies like factory photo. Um, and these are all opportunities for us to build solutions, you know, which can, you know, improve the time to market for our customers in terms of adopting some of these things. Because there has been a huge focus on the improved end user experience or improve experience improved, uh, productivity of, uh, employees, you know, which is which has been a focus. Uh, post pandemic. Right? You know, it has been something which is happening pre pandemic, but it's been accelerated Post pandemic. So this is giving an opportunity for for my role right now in terms of liberating these technologies, building solutions, building value propositions, taking it to our customers, working with partners and then trying to see how we can have this tightly integrated with partners like HP E in this case, and then take it jointly to the market and and find out you know, what's what's the best we can actually give back to our customers? >>You know, you guys have been we've been following you guys for for a long, long time. You've seen many cycles, uh, in the industry. Um, and what's interesting to get your reaction to what we're seeing? A lot of acceleration points, whether it's cloud needed applications. But one is the software business is no longer there. It's open source now, but cloud scale integrations, new hybrid environment kind of brings and changes the game, so there's definitely software plentiful. You guys are doing a lot of stuff with the software. How are customers integrated? Because seeing more and more customers participating in the open source community uh, so what? Red hat's done. They're transforming the open shift. So as cloud native applications come in and get scale and open source software, cloud scale performance and integrations are big. You guys agree with that? >>Absolutely. Absolutely. So if you if you look at it, um, right from the way we can't socialise those solutions, um, open source is something What we have embedded big way right into the solution. Footprint. What we have one is, uh, the ability for us to scale the second is the ability for us to bring in a level of portability, right? And the third is, uh, ensuring that there is absolutely no locking into something. What we're building. We're seeing this this being resonated by our customers to because one is they want to build a child and scalable applications. Uh, it's something where the whole, I would say, the whole dependency on the large software stacks. Uh, you know, the large software providers is likely diminishing now, right? Uh, it's all about how can I simplify my application portfolio Liberating some of the open source technologies. Um, how can I deploy them on a multi cloud world liberating open standards so that I'm not locked into any of these providers? Um, how can I build cloud native applications, which can actually enable portability? And how can I work with providers who doesn't have a lock in, you know, into their solutions, >>And security is gonna be embedded in everything. Absolutely. >>So security is, uh, emperor, right from, uh, design phase. Right? You know, we call it a secure by design And that's something What? We drive for our customers right from our solutions as well as for developing their own solutions >>as opposed to secure by bolt on after the fact. What is the cobalt go to market strategy? How does that affect or how you do business within the HP ecosystem? Absolutely. >>I think you know what we did in, uh, in 2000 and 20. We were the first ones, uh, to come out with an integrated cloud brand called Cobalt. So essentially, our thought process was to make sure that, you know, we talk one consistent language with the customer. There is a consistent narrative. There is a consistent value proposition that we take right. So, essentially, if you look at the Cobalt gold market, it is based on three pillars. The first pillar is all about technology solutions. Getting out of data centres migrating were close to cloud E r. P on Cloud Cloud, Native Development, legacy modernisation. So we'll continue to do that because that's the most important pillar. And that's where our bread and butter businesses right. The second pillar is, uh, more and more customers are asking industry cloud. So what are you specifically doing for my industry. So, for example, if you look at banking, uh, they would say we are focused on Modernising our payment systems. We want to reduce the financial risk that we have because of anti money laundering and those kind of solutions that they're expecting. They want to better the security portion. And of course, they want to improve the experience, right? So they are asking for each of these imperatives that we have in banking. What are some of those specific industry solutions that you are bringing to the table? Right. So that's the second pillar of our global go to market. And the third pillar of our go to market as soon as I was saying is looking at what we call us Horizon three offerings, whether it is metal wars, whether it is 13.0, whether it is looking at something else that will come in the future. And how do we build those solutions which can become mainstream the next 18 to 24 months? So that's essentially the global >>market. That's interesting. Okay, so take the banking example where you've got a core app, it's probably on Prem, and it's not gonna have somebody shoved into the cloud necessarily. But they have to do things like anti money, money laundering and know your ky. See? How are they handling that? Are they building micro services? Are you building for them microservices layers around that that actually might be in the cloud or cloud Native on Prem and Greenway. How is that? How are customers Modernising? >>Absolutely brilliant question. In fact, what we have done is, uh, as part of cobalt, we have something called a reference. Architecture are basically a blueprint. So if you go to a bank and you're engaging a banking executive, uh, the language that we speak with them is not about, uh, private cloud or public cloud or AWS or HP or zero, right? I mean, we talk the language that they understand, which is the banking language. So we take this reference architecture, and we say here is what your core architecture should look like. And, as you rightly called out, there is K. I see there is retail banking. There is anti money laundering. There is security experience. Uh, there are some kpi s and those kind of things banking a PSR open banking as we call, How do we actually bring our solutions, which we have built on open source and something that are specific to cloud and something that our cloud neutral and that's what we take them. So we built this array of solutions around each of those reference architectures that we take to our customers. >>Final question for you guys. How are you guys leveraging the H, P E and new Green Lake and all the new stuff they got here to accelerate the customers journey to edge the cloud? >>So I would say it on three areas right now. This is one is Obviously we are working very closely with HP in terms of taking out solutions jointly to the market and, um, leveraging the whole green late model and providing what I call it as a hyper scale of like experience for our customers in a hybrid, multi cloud world. That's the first thing. The second thing is Onion talked about the cobalt, right? It's an important, I would say, an offering from, uh, you know and offering around cloud from our side. So what we've done is we've closely integrated the assets. You know what I was referring to what we have in our cobalt, uh, under other Kobold umbrella very closely with the HP ecosystem, right? You know, it can be tools like the Emphasis Polly Cloud Platform or the Emphasis pollinate platform very tightly integrated with the HP stack, so that we could actually offer the value proposition right across the value chain. The thought of you know we have actually taken the industry period, like what again mentioned right in terms of rather than talking about a public cloud or a private cloud solution or an edge computing solution. We actually talk about what exactly are the problem statements? What is there in manufacturing today? Or it's there in financial industries today? Or or it's in a bank today or whatever it's relevant to the industry. That's an industry people. So we talk right from an industry problem and and and and and and build that industry, industry people solutions, leveraging the assets, what we have in the and the framework that we have within the couple, plus the integrated solutions. What we bring along with HB. That's that's Those are the three things, what we do along with >>it and that that industry pieces do. There's a whole data layer emerging those industries learning cos they're building their own clouds. Look, working with companies like you because they want to monetise. That's a big part of their digital strategy, guys. Thanks so much for coming on the cue. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Thank >>you. Thank you very much. Really appreciate. >>Thank you. Thank you for watching John and I will be back. John Ferrier, Development at HPD Discovered 2022. You're watching the queue? >>Yeah. >>Mm.

>>The Cube Presents HPD Discovered 2020 >>two. >>Brought to You by H. P E >>Good >>Morning Live from the Venetian Expo Centre Lisa Martin Day Volonte Day two of the Cubes Coverage of HP Discover 22 We've had some great conversations yesterday. Today, full day, a content coming your way. We've got one of our alumni back with us. Neil MacDonald joins us, the executive vice president and general manager of Compute at HPD Neale, Great to have you back on the Cube. >>It's great to be back. And how cool is it to be able to do this face to face again instead of on zoom. Right. So >>great. Great. The keynote yesterday absolutely packed, so refreshing to see that many people eager to hear what HP has been doing. It's been three years since we've all gotten together in person. >>It is, and we've been busy. We've been busy. We've got to share some great news yesterday about some of the work that we're doing with HB Green Lake Cloud Platform and really bringing together all the capabilities across the company in a very unified, cohesive way to enable our customers to embrace that as a service experience we committed to Antonio three years ago, said we were gonna deliver everything we do as a company as a service through Green Lake and we've done it. And it's fantastic to see the momentum that that's really building and how it's breaking down the silos from different types of infrastructure and offer to really create integrated solutions for our customers. So that's been a lot of fun. >>Give us the scope of your role, your areas of responsibility. And then I'd love to hear some feedback. You've been a couple of days here around customers. What some of the feedback help us understand that. >>So at HP, I lead the Compute business, which is our largest business. That includes our hardware and software and services in the compute space. Both, um, what flows through the green late model, but also what throws flows through a traditional purchase model. So, um, that's, uh, that's about $13 billion business for the company and the core of so much of what we do, and it's a real honour to be leading a business that's such a a legacy in a franchise with with 30 years of innovation for our customers in an ocean of followers. Um and it's great to be able to start to share some of the next chapters in that with our customers this week. >>Well, it's almost half the business H p e and as we've talked about, it's an awesome time to be in the computer business. What are you seeing in terms of the trends? Obviously you're all in on as a service. But some customers say, Tell me I got a lot of capital. Yeah, absolutely. I'm fine with Capex. What are you hearing from customers in that regard? And presumably you're happy to sell them in a kind of Capex model? >>Absolutely. And in the current environment, in particular with with some of the economic headwinds that we're starting to stare down here, it's really important for organisations to continue to transform digitally but to be able to match their investments with the revenues as they're building new services and new capabilities. And for some organisations, the challenge of investing all the Capex up front is a big lift and there's quite a delay before they can really monetise all of that. So the power of HP Green Lake is enabling them to match their investment in the infrastructure on a pay as you go basis with the actual revenue they're going to generate from their new capability. So for lots of people that works. But for many other customers, it's it's much more palatable to continue in a Capex purchase, but and we're delighted to do that. A lot of my business still is in that mode. What's changing the or what are the needs, whether you're in the green light environment or in the Capex environment? Um, increasingly, the edge has become a bigger and bigger part of all of our worlds, right, the edges where we all live and work. We've all seen over the last couple of years enormous change in how that work experience and how the shape of businesses has changed, and that creates some challenges for infrastructure. So one of the things that we've announced and we shared some more details of this week is HP Green Light for Computer Ops Management, which is a location agnostic, cloud based management set up that enables you to automate and lifecycle, manage your physical compute infrastructure wherever it lies, so that might be in a distributed environment in hotel locations or out at the edge for so much more data is now being gathered and has to be computed on. So we're really excited about that. And the great thing is because it's fully integrated with HP. Green Light Cloud Platform is in there alongside the storage, alongside the connectivity alongside all the other capabilities. And we can bring those together in a very cohesive infrastructure view for our customers and then build workloads and services and tops. And that's that's really exciting. How have >>your customer conversations evolved, especially over the last couple of years as the edge has exploded? But we've been living in such uncertain times. Are you seeing a change there in the stakeholders rising up the C suite stack in terms of how do we really fine tune this? Because we've got to be competitive. We've got to be a data company. >>Well, that's so true because everybody has seen seen data as a currency and is desperately innovating and Modernising their business model, and with it, the underlying infrastructure and how they think about development. And nowhere is that truer than in enterprises that really becoming digital. First, organisations more and more companies are doing their own in house full stack, cloud native development and pivoting hard from a more traditional view of in house enterprise i t. And in that regard, >>let's >>start to look a lot like a Saas company or a service provider in terms of the needs of the infrastructure you want linear performance scaling. You want to be very sensitive not just to the cost, as you call it, but also to the environmental cost and the power efficiency. And so yesterday we were really thrilled to announce the HBP Reliant are all 300 General Live in, which is the first of our general living platforms. And that's in partnership with Ampere is the first of several things that we're gonna go do together. We're looking forward to building out the rest of our Gen 11 portfolio broadly with all of our industry partners in the in the coming quarters. But we're thrilled about the feedback that we're starting to get from some of our customers about the gains in power efficiency that they're getting from using this new server line that we've developed with amber. >>So, you know, this is an area that I'm very interested in what I write about this a lot. So tell us the critical aspects of Gen 11, where ampere fits, is it is it being used for primarily offloads and there's a core share with us. So >>if you look at the opportunity here is really as a core compute tool for organisations that are doing that in house full snack cloud native development and in that environment, being able to do it with great power efficiency at a great cost point is the great combination. The maturity of the ecosystem, um, is really, really improving to the point where is much, much more accessible for those loads? And if you consider how the infrastructure evolves underneath it, the gains that you get from power efficiency multiply. It's a TCO benefit. It's obviously an environmental benefit, and we all have much, much more to do as an industry on that journey. But every little helps, and we're really excited about being able to bring that to market. The other thing that we've done is recognising the value that we bring in the prelim experience, everything with our integrated lights out management, all of the security, the, uh, hardware root of trust, the secure boot chains, all of that Reliant family values we brought to that platform, just as we do with our others. But we've also recognised that for some of our service provider customers, there's a lot of interest in leveraging open BMC and being able to integrate the management plane and control that in house and tie it to whatever orchestrations being done in the service product. So we have full support for open BMC out of the box out of the gate with Janna Levin. And that's one of the ways that we're evolving. Are offering to meet our customers where they are, including not just the assassin service providers but the enterprises who are starting to adopt more and more of those practises as they build out digital. First, >>tell us more about the architecture. If you would kneel. I mean, so where does ampere and that partnership add value? That's incremental to what you what you might think is a traditional server architecture. How's that evolving? >>Well, it's another alternative for certain workloads in that full stack in house proud Native Development model. Um, it's another choice. It's another option and something that's very excited about >>That's the right course for the horse, for the course that was back in internal development because it's just more efficient. It's lower power, more sustainable. All those things exactly. >>And the wonderful thing for us in the uh in this juncture in the market is there is so much architectural innovation. There are so many innovators out there in the industry creating different optimizations in technology with the lesson silicon or other aspects of the system. And that gives us a much broader palette to paint from as we meet our customers' needs as their businesses involving the requirements are evolving, we can be much more creative as we bring this all together. It's a real thrill to be able to bring some of these technologies into the HP reliant space because we've always felt that compute matters. We've always known that hardware matters, and we've been leading and innovating and meeting these needs as they've evolved over the decades, and it's really fun to be able to continue to do that. Hardware still >>matters. It doesn't matter. We know that here on the Cube, talk about the influence of the customer with so much architectural innovation. There's a lot of choice for customers in every industry. When you're in customer conversations, how are you helping them make decisions? One of the key differentiators that you articulate that's going to really help them achieve outcomes that they have to achieve? >>Well, I think that's exactly as you say. It's about the outcome. Too often, I think the conversation can get down into the lower level details of component, tree and technology and our philosophy. HP has always been focused on what it is that the customer is trying to achieve. How are they trying to serve their customers? What are their needs? And then we can bring an opinionated point of view on the best way to solve that problem, whether that's recommendations on the particular Capex, infrastructure and architecture to build or increasingly, the opportunity to serve that through HP Green Lake, either as hard or as a service. Or is HP Green Lake services further up the stack? Because when you start talking about what is the outcome you're trying to achieve, you have you have a much, much better opportunity to focus the technology to serve the business and not get wrapped up in managing the infrastructure and that's what we love to do. >>So where? Give us the telescope vision. Maybe not to tell a binocular vision as to where compute is going. We're clearly seeing more diversity in silicon. Uh, it's not just a you know x 86 CPU world anymore. There's all these other supporting components new workloads coming in. Where do you you mentioned Edge, whole new ballgame ai inference sing. And that was kind of new workloads, offloads and things of that. Where do you see it all going in the next 3 to 5 years? >>I think it's gonna be really, really exciting time because more and more of our data is getting captured to the edge. And because of the experiences that companies are trying to deliver and organisations are trying to deliver that requires more and more stories are more and more compute at the edge. The edge is not just about connectivity, and again, that's why with the F B green light cloud platform, the power of bringing together the connectivity with the compute with the storage with the other capabilities in that integrated way gives us the ability to serve that combined need at the edge in a very, very compelling way. The room moves a lot of friction and a lot of work for our customers. But as you see that happen, you're going to see more and more combining of functionalities. The silos are going to start to break down between different classes of building block in the data centre, and you've already seen shifts with more and more software to find more and more hybrid offerings running across a computing substrate. But perhaps delivering storage services are analytic services or other workloads, and you're gonna see that to conduct that continue to evolve. So it's gonna be very fun over the next few years to see that, uh, that diversification and a much more opinionated set of offers for particular use cases and workloads and at our job and value is going to be simplifying that complexity because choices great right up to the point where you're paralysed by too many choices. So the wonderful thing about the world that's been done here is that we're able to bring that opinionated point of view and help guide, and again it's all about starting with what are you trying to achieve. What are the outcomes you're trying to deliver? And if you start there were having a great time helping our customers find the right path forward. >>Wow, it sounds like a fun job. Talk to me about, you know, maybe one of your favourite examples that you really think articulates the value of of the choice and the opportunities that HP can deliver to customers, maybe favourite customer example where you think we really nailed it here and they're achieving some incredible outcomes. >>Well, we're really excited about this week as I was chatting with the CEO of Cloud Sigma, which is a global ideas and pass provider who's actually been using our new HP per client moral 300 general live in Are you on purpose? Server line? And, uh, their CEO was reporting to me yesterday that based on his benchmarking, they're seeing a significant improvement in power efficiency, and that's that's that's cool to an engineer. But what's even better is the next thing, he said. That's enabling them to deliver better cost to their customers and advanced their sustainability goals, which is such a core part of what we as an industry and we as society are going to have to continue to make stepwise progress against over the next decade in order to confront those challenges in the environment so that that's that's really fulfilling, not just to see the tech, which is always interesting to an engineer but actually see the impact that it's having an enabling that outcome foreclosed signal >>so many customers, including Cloud Sigma and customers in every industry. E S G is an incredibly important initiative. And so it's vital for companies that have a core focus on E. S G to partner with companies like HP who will help them facilitate that actually demonstrate outcomes to their own users. >>It's such an important journey and it's gonna be a journey of many steps together. But I think it's one of the most critical partnerships that as an industry and as an ecosystem, we still have a lot of work to do and we have to stay focused on it every day, continuing, moving the bar. >>You >>know, to your point about E. S G. You see these E s G reports. Now that they're unbelievable, the data that is in them and the responsibility that organisations mid and large organisations have to actually publish that and be held accountable. It's actually kind of daunting, but there's a lot of investments going on there. You're absolutely right. The >>accountability is key, and it's it's it's necessary to have an accountability partner and ecosystem that can facilitate that. Exactly. >>We just published last week our Own Living Progress report this year, talking about some of the steps that we're making the commitments that we pulled in in time. Um, and we're looking forward to continue to work on that with our customers and with the industry, because it's so critical that we make faster progress together on that >>last question. What's your favourite comment that you've heard the last couple of days being back in person with about 8000 customers, partners and execs? It's >>not. It's not the common. It's the sparkles in the eyes. It's the energy. It is so great to be back together, face to face. I think we, uh, we've soldiered through a couple of tough years. We've done a lot of things remotely together, but there's no substitute for being back together, and the energy is just palpable and it's it's fantastic to be able to share some of what we've been up to in the interim and see the excitement about getting adopted by customers and partners. >>I agree the energy has been fantastic. We were talking about that yesterday. You brought it today, Neil, Thank you so much for joining us. We're excited about Antonio coming up next, going to unpack all the announcements. Really good customers. Perspective from the top of H P E for Neil and Dave Volonte. I'm Lisa Martin joins us in just a few minutes as the CEO of HP, Antonio Neary joins us next.

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto, in Boston bringing you Data Driven Insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> In the pre-cloud era hardware companies would run benchmarks, showing how database and or application performance ran better on their systems relative to competitors or previous generation boxes. And they would make a big deal out of it. And the independent software vendors, you know they'd do a little golf clap if you will, in the form of a joint press release it became a game of leaprog amongst hardware competitors. That was pretty commonplace over the years. The Dell Snowflake Deal underscores that the value proposition between hardware companies and ISVs is changing and has much more to do with distribution channels, volumes and the amount of data that lives On-Prem in various storage platforms. For cloud native ISVs like Snowflake they're realizing that despite their Cloud only dogma they have to grit their teeth and deal with On-premises data or risk getting shut out of evolving architectures. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we unpack what little is known about the Snowflake announcement from Dell Technologies World and discuss the implications of a changing Cloud landscape. We'll also share some new data for Cloud and Database platforms from ETR that shows Snowflake has actually entered the Earth's orbit when it comes to spending momentum on its platform. Now, before we get into the news I want you to listen to Frank's Slootman's answer to my question as to whether or not Snowflake would ever architect the platform to run On-Prem because it's doable technically, here's what he said, play the clip >> Forget it, this will only work in the Public Cloud. Because it's, this is how the utility model works, right. I think everybody is coming through this realization, right? I mean, excuses are running out at this point. You know, we think that it'll, people will come to the Public Cloud a lot sooner than we will ever come to the Private Cloud. It's not that we can't run a private Cloud. It's just diminishes the potential and the value that we bring. >> So you may be asking yourselves how do you square that circle? Because basically the Dell Snowflake announcement is about bringing Snowflake to the private cloud, right? Or is it let's get into the news and we'll find out. Here's what we know at Dell Technologies World. One of the more buzzy announcements was the, by the way this was a very well attended vet event. I should say about I would say 8,000 people by my estimates. But anyway, one of the more buzzy announcements was Snowflake can now run analytics on Non-native Snowflake data that lives On-prem in a Dell object store Dell's ECS to start with. And eventually it's software defined object store. Here's Snowflake's clark, Snowflake's Clark Patterson describing how it works this past week on theCUBE. Play the clip. The way it works is I can now access Non-native Snowflake data using what materialized views, external tables How does that work? >> Some combination of the, all the above. So we've had in Snowflake, a capability called External Tables, which you refer to, it goes hand in hand with this notion of external stages. Basically there's a through the combination of those two capabilities, it's a metadata layer on data, wherever it resides. So customers have actually used this in Snowflake for data lake data outside of Snowflake in the Cloud, up until this point. So it's effectively an extension of that functionality into the Dell On-Premises world, so that we can tap into those things. So we use the external stages to expose all the metadata about what's in the Dell environment. And then we build external tables in Snowflake. So that data looks like it is in Snowflake. And then the experience for the analyst or whomever it is, is exactly as though that data lives in the Snowflake world. >> So as Clark explained, this capability of External tables has been around in the Cloud for a while, mainly to suck data out of Cloud data lakes. Snowflake External Tables use file level metadata, for instance, the name of the file and the versioning so that it can be queried in a stage. A stage is just an external location outside of Snowflake. It could be an S3 bucket or an Azure Blob and it's soon will be a Dell object store. And in using this feature, the Dell looks like it lives inside of Snowflake and Clark essentially, he's correct to say to an analyst that looks exactly like the data is in Snowflake, but uh, not exactly the data's read only which means you can't do what are called DML operations. DML stands for Data Manipulation Language and allows for things like inserting data into tables or deleting and modifying existing data. But the data can be queried. However, the performance of those queries to External Tables will almost certainly be slower. Now users can build things like materialized views which are going to speed things up a bit, but at the end of the day, it's going to run faster than the Cloud. And you can be almost certain that's where Snowflake wants it to run, but some organizations can't or won't move data into the Cloud for a variety of reasons, data sovereignty, compliance security policies, culture, you know, whatever. So data can remain in place On-prem, or it can be moved into the Public Cloud with this new announcement. Now, the compute today presumably is going to be done in the Public Cloud. I don't know where else it's going to be done. They really didn't talk about the compute side of things. Remember, one of Snowflake's early innovations was to separate compute from storage. And what that gave them is you could more efficiently scale with unlimited resources when you needed them. And you could shut off the compute when you don't need us. You didn't have to buy, and if you need more storage you didn't have to buy more compute and vice versa. So everybody in the industry has copied that including AWS with Redshift, although as we've reported not as elegantly as Snowflake did. RedShift's more of a storage tiering solution which minimizes the compute required but you can't really shut it off. And there are companies like Vertica with Eon Mode that have enabled this capability to be done On-prem, you know, but of course in that instance you don't have unlimited elastic compute scale on-Prem but with solutions like Dell Apex and HPE GreenLake, you can certainly, you can start to simulate that Cloud elasticity On-prem. I mean, it's not unlimited but it's sort of gets you there. According to a Dell Snowflake joint statement, the companies the quote, the companies will pursue product integrations and joint go to market efforts in the second half of 2022. So that's a little vague and kind of benign. It's not really clear when this is going to be available based on that statement from the two first, but, you know, we're left wondering will Dell develop an On-Prem compute capability and enable queries to run locally maybe as part of an extended apex offering? I mean, we don't know really not sure there's even a market for that but it's probably a good bet that again, Snowflake wants that data to land in the Snowflake data Cloud kind of makes you wonder how this deal came about. You heard Sloop on earlier Snowflake has always been pretty dogmatic about getting data into its native snowflake format to enable the best performance as we talked about but also data sharing and governance. But you could imagine that data architects they're building out their data mesh we've reported on this quite extensively and their data fabric and those visions around that. And they're probably telling Snowflake, Hey if you want to be a strategic partner of ours you're going to have to be more inclusive of our data. That for whatever reason we're not putting in your Cloud. So Snowflake had to kind of hold its nose and capitulate. Now the good news is it further opens up Snowflakes Tam the total available market. It's obviously good marketing posture. And ultimately it provides an on ramp to the Cloud. And we're going to come back to that shortly but let's look a little deeper into what's happening with data platforms and to do that we'll bring in some ETR data. Now, let me just say as companies like Dell, IBM, Cisco, HPE, Lenovo, Pure and others build out their hybrid Clouds. The cold hard fact is not only do they have to replicate the Cloud Operating Model. You will hear them talk about that a lot, but they got to do that. So it, and that's critical from a user experience but in order to gain that flywheel momentum they need to build a robust ecosystem that goes beyond their proprietary portfolios. And, you know, honestly they're really not even in the first inning most companies and for the likes of Snowflake to sort of flip this, they've had to recognize that not everything is moving into the Cloud. Now, let's bring up the next slide. One of the big areas of discussion at Dell Tech World was Apex. That's essentially Dell's nascent as a service offering. Apex is infrastructure as a Service Cloud On-prem and obviously has the vision of connecting to the Cloud and across Clouds and out to the Edge. And it's no secret that database is one of the most important ingredients of infrastructure as a service generally in Cloud Infrastructure specifically. So this chart here shows the ETR data for data platforms inside of Dell accounts. So the beauty of ETR platform is you can cut data a million different ways. So we cut it. We said, okay, give us the Cloud platforms inside Dell accounts, how are they performing? Now, this is a two dimensional graphic. You got net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and what ETR now calls Overlap formally called Market Share which is a measure of pervasiveness in the survey. That's on the horizontal axis that red dotted line at 40% represents highly elevated spending on the Y. The table insert shows the raw data for how the dots are positioned. Now, the first call out here is Snowflake. According to ETR quote, after 13 straight surveys of astounding net scores, Snowflake has finally broken the trend with its net score dropping below the 70% mark among all respondents. Now, as you know, net score is measured by asking customers are you adding the platform new? That's the lime green in the bar that's pointing from Snowflake in the graph and or are you increasing spend by 6% or more? That's the forest green is spending flat that's the gray is you're spend decreasing by 6% or worse. That's the pinkish or are you decommissioning the platform bright red which is essentially zero for Snowflake subtract the reds from the greens and you get a net score. Now, what's somewhat interesting is that snowflakes net score overall in the survey is 68 which is still huge, just under 70%, but it's net score inside the Dell account base drops to the low sixties. Nonetheless, this chart tells you why Snowflake it's highly elevated spending momentum combined with an increasing presence in the market over the past two years makes it a perfect initial data platform partner for Dell. Now and in the Ford versus Ferrari dynamic. That's going on between the likes of Dell's apex and HPE GreenLake database deals are going to become increasingly important beyond what we're seeing with this recent Snowflake deal. Now noticed by the way HPE is positioned on this graph with its acquisition of map R which is now part of HPE Ezmeral. But if these companies want to be taken seriously as Cloud players, they need to further expand their database affinity to compete ideally spinning up databases as part of their super Clouds. We'll come back to that that span multiple Clouds and include Edge data platforms. We're a long ways off from that. But look, there's Mongo, there's Couchbase, MariaDB, Cloudera or Redis. All of those should be on the short list in my view and why not Microsoft? And what about Oracle? Look, that's to be continued on maybe as a future topic in a, in a Breaking Analysis but I'll leave you with this. There are a lot of people like John Furrier who believe that Dell is playing with fire in the Snowflake deal because he sees it as a one way ticket to the Cloud. He calls it a one way door sometimes listen to what he said this past week. >> I would say that that's a dangerous game because we've seen that movie before, VMware and AWS. >> Yeah, but that we've talked about this don't you think that was the right move for VMware? >> At the time, but if you don't nurture the relationship AWS will take all those customers ultimately from VMware. >> Okay, so what does the data say about what John just said? How is VMware actually doing in Cloud after its early missteps and then its subsequent embracing of AWS and other Clouds. Here's that same XY graphic spending momentum on the Y and pervasiveness on the X and the same table insert that plots the dots and the, in the breakdown of Dell's net score granularity. You see that at the bottom of the chart in those colors. So as usual, you see Azure and AWS up and to the right with Google well behind in a distant third, but still in the mix. So very impressive for Microsoft and AWS to have both that market presence in such elevated spending momentum. But the story here in context is that the VMware Cloud on AWS and VMware's On-Prem Cloud like VMware Cloud Foundation VCF they're doing pretty well in the market. Look, at HPE, gaining some traction in Cloud. And remember, you may not think HPE and Dell and VCF are true Cloud but these are customers answering the survey. So their perspective matters more than the purest view. And the bad news is the Dell Cloud is not setting the world on fire from a momentum standpoint on the vertical axis but it's above the line of zero and compared to Dell's overall net score of 20 you could see it's got some work to do. Okay, so overall Dell's got a pretty solid net score to you know, positive 20, as I say their Cloud perception needs to improve. Look, Apex has to be the Dell Cloud brand not Dell reselling VMware. And that requires more maturity of Apex it's feature sets, its selling partners, its compensation models and it's ecosystem. And I think Dell clearly understands that. I think they're pretty open about that. Now this includes partners that go beyond being just sellers has to include more tech offerings in the marketplace. And actually they got to build out a marketplace like Cloud Platform. So they got a lot of work to do there. And look, you've got Oracle coming up. I mean they're actually kind of just below the magic 40% in the line which is pro it's pretty impressive. And we've been telling you for years, you can hate Oracle all you want. You can hate its price, it's closed system all of that it's red stack shore. You can say it's legacy. You can say it's old and outdated, blah, blah, blah. You can say Oracle is irrelevant in trouble. You are dead wrong. When it comes to mission critical workloads. Oracle is the king of the hill. They're a founder led company that knows exactly what it's doing and they're showing Cloud momentum. Okay, the last point is that while Microsoft AWS and Google have major presence as shown on the X axis. VMware and Oracle now have more than a hundred citations in the survey. You can see that on the insert in the right hand, right most column. And IBM had better keep the momentum from last quarter going, or it won't be long before they get passed by Dell and HP in Cloud. So look, John might be right. And I would think Snowflake quietly agrees that this Dell deal is all about access to Dell's customers and their data. So they can Hoover it into the Snowflake Data Cloud but the data right now, anyway doesn't suggest that's happening with VMware. Oh, by the way, we're keeping an eye close eye on NetApp who last September ink, a similar deal to VMware Cloud on AWS to see how that fares. Okay, let's wrap with some closing thoughts on what this deal means. We learned a lot from the Cloud generally in AWS, specifically in two pizza teams, working backwards, customer obsession. We talk about flywheel all the time and we've been talking today about marketplaces. These have all become common parlance and often fundamental narratives within strategic plans investor decks and customer presentations. Cloud ecosystems are different. They take both competition and partnerships to new heights. You know, when I look at Azure service offerings like Apex, GreenLake and similar services and I see the vendor noise or hear the vendor noise that's being made around them. I kind of shake my head and ask, you know which movie were these companies watching last decade? I really wish we would've seen these initiatives start to roll out in 2015, three years before AWS announced Outposts not three years after but Hey, the good news is that not only was Outposts a wake up call for the On-Prem crowd but it's showing how difficult it is to build a platform like Outposts and bring it to On-Premises. I mean, Outpost isn't currently even a rounding era in the marketplace. It really doesn't do much in terms of database support and support of other services. And, you know, it's unclear where that that is going. And I don't think it has much momentum. And so the Hybrid Cloud Vendors they've had time to figure it out. But now it's game on, companies like Dell they're promising a consistent experience between On-Prem into the Cloud, across Clouds and out to the Edge. They call it MultCloud which by the way my view has really been multi-vendor Chuck, Chuck Whitten. Who's the new co-COO of Dell called it Multi-Cloud by default. (laughing) That's really, I think an accurate description of that. I call this new world Super Cloud. To me, it's different than MultiCloud. It's a layer that runs on top of hyperscale infrastructure kind of hides the underlying complexity of the Cloud. It's APIs, it's primitives. And it stretches not only across Clouds but out to the Edge. That's a big vision and that's going to require some seriously intense engineering to build out. It's also going to require partnerships that go beyond the portfolios of companies like Dell like their own proprietary stacks if you will. It's going to have to replicate the Cloud Operating Model and to do that, you're going to need more and more deals like Snowflake and even deeper than Snowflake, not just in database. Sure, you'll need to have a catalog of databases that run in your On-Prem and Hybrid and Super Cloud but also other services that customers can tap. I mean, can you imagine a day when Dell offers and embraces a directly competitive service inside of apex. I have trouble envisioning that, you know not with their historical posture, you think about companies like, you know, Nutanix, you know, or Cisco where they really, you know those relationships cooled quite quickly but you know, look, think about it. That's what AWS does. It offers for instance, Redshift and Snowflake side by side happily and the Redshift guys they probably hate Snowflake. I wouldn't blame them, but the EC Two Folks, they love them. And Adam SloopesKy understands that ISVs like Snowflake are a key part of the Cloud ecosystem. Again, I have a hard time envisioning that occurring with Dell or even HPE, you know maybe less so with HPE, but what does this imply that the Edge will allow companies like Dell to a reach around on the Cloud and somehow create a new type of model that begrudgingly accommodates the Public Cloud but drafts of the new momentum of the Edge, which right now to these companies is kind of mostly telco and retail. It's hard to see that happening. I think it's got to evolve in a more comprehensive and inclusive fashion. What's much more likely is companies like Dell are going to substantially replicate that Cloud Operating Model for the pieces that they own pieces that they control which admittedly are big pieces of the market. But unless they're able to really tap that ecosystem magic they're not going to be able to grow much beyond their existing install bases. You take that lime green we showed you earlier that new adoption metric from ETR as an example, by my estimates, AWS and Azure are capturing new accounts at a rate between three to five times faster than Dell and HPE. And in the more mature US and mere markets it's probably more like 10 X and a major reason is because of the Cloud's robust ecosystem and the optionality and simplicity of transaction that that is bringing to customers. Now, Dell for its part is a hundred billion dollar revenue company. And it has the capability to drive that kind of dynamic. If it can pivot its partner ecosystem mindset from kind of resellers to Cloud services and technology optionality. Okay, that's it for now? Thanks to my colleagues, Stephanie Chan who helped research topics for Breaking Analysis. Alex Myerson is on the production team. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight and Rob Hof, on editorial they helped get the word out and thanks to Jordan Anderson for the new Breaking Analysis branding and graphics package. Remember these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you do is search Breaking Analysis podcasts. You could check out ETR website @etr.ai. We publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You want to get in touch. @dave.vellente @siliconangle.com. You can DM me @dvellante. You can make a comment on our LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for the Cube Insights powered by ETR. Have a great week, stay safe, be well. And we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>>Hello and welcome back to the cubes coverage of dr khan 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube. Great guests here cube alumni Stephen Chin, vice president of developer relations for jay frog Stephen, great to see you again this remote this time this last time was in person. Our last physical event. We had you in the queue but great to see you. Thanks for coming in remotely. >>No, no, I'm very glad to be here. And also it was, it was awesome to be in person at our s a conference when we last talked and the last year has been super exciting with a whole bunch of crazy things like the I. P. O. And doing virtual events. So we've, we're transitioning to the new normal. We're looking forward to things getting to be hybrid. >>Great success with jay frog. We've been documenting the history of this company, very developer focused the successful I. P. O. And just the continuation that you guys have transitioned beautifully to virtual because you know, developer company, it runs virtual, but also you guys have been all about simplicity for developers and and we've been talking for many, many years with you guys on this. This is the theme that dr khan again, this is a developer conference, not so much an operator conference, but more of a deva deV developer focused. You guys have been there from the beginning, um nationally reported on it. But talk about jay Frog and the Doctor partnership and why is this event so important for you? >>Yeah. So I think um like like you said, jay Frog has and always is a developer focused company. So we we build tools and things which which focus on developer use cases, how you get your code to production and streamlining the entire devoPS pipeline. And one of the things which which we believe very strongly in and I think we're very aligned with with doctor on this is having secure clean upstream dependencies for your Docker images for other package and language dependencies and um you know, with the announcement of dr khan and dr Hubbs model changing, we wanted to make sure that we have the best integration with doctor and also the best support for our customers on with Docker hub. So one of the things we did strategically is um, we um combined our platforms so um you can get the best in class developer tools for managing images from Docker. Um everyone uses their um desktop tools for for building and managing your containers and then you can push them right to the best container registry for managing Docker Images, which is the jay frog platform. And just like Docker has free tools available for developers to use. We have a free tier which integrates nicely what their offerings and one of the things which we collaborate with them on is for anybody using our free tier in the cloud. Um there's there's no limits on the Docker images. You can pull no rate limiting, no throttling. So it just makes a clean seamless developer experience to to manage your cloud native projects and applications. >>What's the role of the container registry in cloud NATO? You brought that up? But can you just expand on that point? >>Yeah. So I think when you when you're doing deployments to production, you want to make sure both that you have the best security so that you're making sure that you're scanning and checking for vulnerabilities in your application and also that you have a complete um traceability. Basically you need a database in a log of everything you're pushing out to production. So what container registries allow you to do is um they keep all of the um releases all of the Docker images which are pushing out. You can go back and roll back to a previous version. You can see exactly what's included in those Docker images. And we jay frog, we have a product called X ray which does deep scanning of container images. So it'll go into the Docker Image, it'll go into any packages installed, it'll go into application libraries and it does kind of this onion peel apart of your entire document image to figure out exactly what you're using. Are there any vulnerabilities? And the funny thing about about Docker Images is um because of the number of libraries and packages and installed things which you haven't given Docker Image. If you just take your released Docker Image and let it sit on the shelf for a month, you have thousands of vulnerabilities, just just buy it um, by accruing from different reported zero day vulnerabilities over time. So it's extremely important that you, you know what those are, you can evaluate the risk to your organization and then mitigated as quickly as possible. If there is anything which could impact your customers, >>you bring up a great point right there and that is ultimately a developer thing that's been, that's generational, you know what generation you come from and that's always the problem getting the patches in the old days, getting a new code updated now when you have cloud native, that's more important than ever. And I also want to get your thoughts on this because you guys have been early on shift left two years ago, shift left was not it was not a new thing for you guys ever. So you got shift left building security at the point of coding, but you're bringing up a whole another thing which is okay automation. How do you make it? So the developments nothing stop what they're doing and then get back and say, okay, what's out there and my containers. So so how do you simplify that role? Because that's where the partnership, I think really people are looking to you guys and Dakar on is how do you make my life easier? Bottom line, what's it, what's it, what's it about? >>Yeah. So I I think when you when you're looking at trying to manage um large applications which are deployed to big kubernetes clusters and and how you have kind of this, this um all this infrastructure behind it. One of the one of the challenges is how do you know what you have that in production? Um So what, how do you know exactly what's released and what dependencies are out there and how easily can you trace those back? Um And one of the things which we're gonna be talking about at um swamp up next week is managing the overall devops lifecycle from code all the way through to production. Um And we we have a great platform for doing package management for doing vulnerability scanning, for doing um ci cd but you you need a bunch of other tools too. So you need um integrations like docker so you can get trusted packages into your system. You need integrations with observe ability tools like data, dog, elastic and you need it some tools for doing incident management like Patriot duty. And what we've, what we've built out um is we built out an ecosystem of partner integrations which with the J frog platform at the center lets you manage your entire and and life cycle of um devops infrastructure. And this this addresses security. It addresses the need to do quick patches and fixes and production and it kind of stitches together all the tools which all of the successful companies are using to manage their fast moving continuous release cycle, um and puts all that information together with seamless integration with even developer tools which um which folks are using on a day to day basis, like slack jeer A and M. S. Teams. >>So the bottom line then for the developer is you take the best of breed stuff and put it, make it all work together easily. That right? >>Yeah. I mean it's like it's seamless from you. You've got an incidents, you click a button, it sticks Ajira ticket in for you to resolve. Um you can tie that with the code, commits what you're doing and then directly to the security vulnerability which is reported by X ray. So it stitches all these different tools and technologies together for a for a seamless developer experience. And I think the great relationship we have with Docker um offers developers again, this this best in class container management um and trusted images combined with the world's best container registry. >>Awesome. Well let's get into that container issue products. I think that's the fascinating and super important thing that you guys solve a big problem for. So I gotta ask you, what are the security risks of using unverified and outdated Docker containers? Could you share your thoughts on what people should pay attention to because if they got unverified and outdated Docker containers, you mentioned vulnerabilities. What are those specific risks to them? >>Yeah, so I there's there's a lot of um different instances where you can see in the news or even some of the new government mandates coming out that um if you're not taking the right measures to secure your production applications and to patch critical vulnerabilities and libraries you're using, um you end up with um supply chain vulnerability risks like what happened to solar winds and what's been fueling the recent government mandates. So I think there's a there's a whole class of of different vulnerabilities which um bad actors can exploit. It can actually go quite deep with um folks um exploiting application software. Neither your your company or in other people's systems with with the move to cloud native, we also have heavily interconnected systems with a lot of different attack points from the container to the application level to the operating system level. So there's multiple different attack vectors for people to get into your software. And the best defense is an organization against security. Vulnerabilities is to know about them quickly and to mitigate them and fix them in production as quickly as possible. And this requires having a fast continuous deployment strategy for how you can update your code quickly, very quick identification of vulnerabilities with tools like X ray and other security scanning tools, um and just just good um integration with tools developers are using because at the end of the day it's the developers who both are picking the libraries and dependencies which are gonna be pushed into production and also they're the ones who have to react and and fix it when there's a uh production incident, >>you know, machine learning and automation. And it's always, I love that tech because it's always kind of cool because it's it's devops in action, but you know, it's it's not like a silver bullet, your machine, your machine learning is only as good as your your data and the code is written on staying with automation. You're not automating the right things or or wrong things. It's all it's all subjective based on what you're doing and you know Beauty's in the eye of the beholder when you do things like that. So I wanna hear your thoughts on on automation because that's really been a big part of the story here, both on simplicity and making the load lighter for developers. So when you have to go out and look at modifying code updates and looking at say um unverified containers or one that gets a little bit of a hair on it with with with more updates that are needed as we say, what do you what's the role of automation? How do you guys view that and how do you talk to the developers out there when posturing for a strategy on and a playbook for automation? >>Yeah, I think you're you're touching on one of the most critical parts of of any good devops um platform is from end to end. Everything should be automated with the right quality gates inserted at different points so that if there's a um test failure, if you have a build failure, if you have a security vulnerability, the the automatic um points in there will be triggered so that your release process will be stopped um that you have automated rollbacks in production um so that you can make sure that their issues which affect your customers, you can quickly roll back and once you get into production um having the right tools for observe ability so that you can actually sift through what is a essentially a big data problem. So with large systems you get so much data coming back from your application, from the production systems, from all these different sources that even an easy way to sift through and identify what are the messages coming back telling you that there's a problem that there's a real issue that you need to address versus what's just background noise about different different processes or different application alerts, which really don't affect the security of the functionality of your applications. So I think this this end to end automation gives you the visibility and the single pane of glass to to know how to manage and diagnose your devops infrastructure. >>You know, steve you bring up a great point. I love this conversation because it always highlights to me why I love uh Coop Con and Cloud Native con part of the C N C F and dr khan, because to me it's like a microcosm of two worlds that are living together. Right? You got I think Coop khan has proven its more operated but not like operator operator, developer operators. And you got dr khan almost pure software development, but now becoming operators. So you've got that almost those two worlds are fusing together where they are running together. You have operating concerns like well the Parachute open, will it work? And how do I roll back these roll back? These are like operating questions that now developers got to think about. So I think we're seeing this kind of confluence of true devops next level where you can't you can be just a developer and have a little bit of opposite you and not be a problem. Right? Or or get down under the under the hood and be an operator whenever you want. So they're seeing a flex. What's your thoughts on this is just more about my observation kind of real time here? >>Yeah, so um I think it's an interesting, obviously observation on the industry and I think you know, I've been doing DEVOPS for for a long time now and um I started as a developer who needed to push to production, needed to have the ability to to manage releases and packages and be able to automate everything. Um and this naturally leads you on a path of doing more operations, being able to manage your production, being able to have fewer incidents and issues. Um I think DEVOPS has evolved to become a very complicated um set of tools and problems which it solves and even kubernetes as an example. Um It's not easy to set up like setting up a kubernetes cluster and managing, it is a full time job now that said, I think what you're seeing now is more and more companies are shifting back to developers as a focus because teams and developers are the kingmakers ends with the rise of cloud computing, you don't need a full operations team, you don't need a huge infrastructure stack, you can you can easily get set up in the cloud on on amazon google or as your and start deploying today to production from from a small team straight from code to production. And I think as we evolve and as we get better tools, simpler ways of managing your deployments of managing your packages, this makes it possible for um development teams to do that entire site lifecycle from code through to production with good quality checks with um good security and also with the ability to manage simple production incidents all by themselves. So I think that's that's coming where devoPS is shifting back to development teams. >>It's great to have your leadership and your experience. All right there. That's a great call out, great observation, nice gym there. I think that's right on. I think to get your thoughts if you don't mind going next level because you're, you're nailing what I see is the successful companies having these teams that could be and and workflows and have a mix of a team. I was talking about Dana Lawson who was the VP of engineering get up and she and I were riffing on this idea that you don't have to have a monolithic team because you've got you no longer have a monolithic environment. So you have this microservices and now you can have these, I'm gonna call micro teams, but you're starting to see an SRE on the team, that's the developer. Right? So this idea of having an SRE department maybe for big companies, that could be cool if you're hyper scalar, but these development teams are having certain formations. What's your observation to your customer base in terms of how your customers are organizing? Because I think you nailed the success form of how teams are executing because it's so much more agile, you get the reliability, you need to have security baked in, you want end to end visibility because you got services starting and stopping. How are teams? How are you seeing developers? What's the state of the art in your mind for formation? >>Yeah, so I think um we we work with a lot of the biggest companies who were really at the bleeding edge of innovation and devoPS and continuous delivery. And when you look at those teams, they have, they have very, very small teams, um supporting thousands of developers teams um building and deploying applications. So um when you think of of SRE and deVOPS focus there is actually a very small number of those folks who typically support humongous organizations and I think what we're hearing from them is their increasingly getting requirements from the teams who want to be self service, right? They want to be able to take their applications, have simple platforms to deploy it themselves to manage things. Um They don't they don't want to go through heavy way processes, they wanted to be automated and lightweight and I think this is this is putting pressure on deVOPS teams to to evolve and to adopt more platforms and services which allow developers to to do things themselves. And I think over time um this doesn't this doesn't get rid of the need for for devops and for SRE roles and organizations but it it changes because now they become the enablers of success and good development teams. It's it's kind of like um like how I. T. Organizations they support you with automated rollouts with all these tools rather than in person as much as they can do with automation. Um That helps the entire organization. I think devops is becoming the same thing where they're now simplifying and automating how developers can be self service and organizations. >>And I think it's a great evolution to because that makes total sense because it is kind of like what the I. T. Used to do in the old days but its the scale is different, the services are different, the deVOPS tools are different and so they really are enabling not just the cost center there really driving value. Um and this brings up the whole next threat. I'd love to get your thoughts because you guys are, have been doing this for developers for a while. Tools versus platform because you know, this whole platform where we're a platform were control plane, there's still a need for tooling for developers. How do we thread the needle between? What's, what's good for a tool? What's good for a platform? >>Yeah, So I I think that um, you know, there's always a lot of focus and it's, it's easier if you can take an end to end platform, which solves a bunch of different use cases together. But um, I I think a lot of folks, um, when you're looking at what you need and how you want to apply, um, devops practices to your organization, you ideally you want to be able to use best in breed tools to be able to solve exactly what your use cases. And this is one of the reasons why as a company with jay frog, we we try to be as open as possible to integrations with the entire vendor ecosystem. So um, it doesn't matter what ci cd tool you're using, you could be using Jenkins circle, ci spinnaker checked on, it doesn't matter what observe ability platform you're using in production, it doesn't matter what um tools you're using for collaboration. We, we support that whole ecosystem and we make it possible for you to select the the best of breed tools and technologies that you need to be successful as an organization. And I think the risk is if, if you, if you kind of accept vendor lock in on a single platform or or a single cloud platform even um then you're, you're not getting the best in breed tools and technologies which you need to stay ahead of the curve and devops is a very, very fast moving um, um, discipline along with all the cloud native technologies which you use for application development and for production. So if you're, if you're not staying at the bleeding edge and kind of pushing things forward, then you're then you're behind and if you're behind, you're not be able to keep up with the releases, the deployments, you need to be secure. So I think what you see is the leading organizations are pushing the envelope on on security, on deployment and they're they're using the best tools in the industry to make that happen. >>Stephen great to have you on the cube. I want to just get your thoughts on jay frog and the doctor partnership to wrap this up. Could you take them in to explain what's the most important thing that developers should pay attention to when it comes to security for Docker images? >>Yeah. So I think when you're when you're developer and you're looking at your your security strategy, um you want tools that help you that come to you and that help you. So you want things which are going to give you alerts in your I. D. With things which are going to trigger your in your Ci cd and your build process. And we should make it easy for you to identify mitigate and release um things which will help you do that. So we we provide a lot of those tools with jay frog and our doctor partnership. And I think if you if you look at our push towards helping developers to become more productive, build better applications and more secure applications, this is something the entire industry needs for us to address. What's increasingly a risk to software development, which is a higher profile vulnerabilities, which are affecting the entire industry. >>Great stuff. Big fan of jay frog watching you guys be so successful, you know, making things easy for developers is uh, and simpler and reducing the steps it takes to do things as a, I say, is the classic magic formula for any company, Make it easier, reduce the steps it takes to do something and make it simple. Um, good success formula. Great stuff. Great to have you on um for a minute or two, take a minute to plug what's going on in jay frog and share what's the latest increase with the company, what you guys are doing? Obviously public company. Great place to work, getting awards for that. Give the update on jay frog, put a plug in. >>Yeah. And also dr Frog, I've been having a lot of fun working at J frog, it's very, very fast growing. We have a lot of awesome announcements at swamp up. Um like the partnerships were doing um secure release bundles for deployments and just just a range of advances. I think the number of new features and innovation we put into the product in the past six months since I. P. O. Is astounding. So we're really trying to push the edge on devops um and we're also gonna be announcing and talking about stuff that dr khan as well and continue to invest in the cloud native and the devops ecosystem with our support of the continuous delivery foundation and the C. N C F, which I'm also heavily involved in. So it's it's exciting time to be in the devoPS industry and I think you can see that we're really helping software developers to improve their art to become better, better at release. Again, managing production applications >>and the ecosystem is just flourishing. It's only the beginning and again Making bring the craft back in Agile, which is a super big theme this year. Stephen. Great, great to see you. Thanks for dropping those gems and insights here on the Cube here at Dr. 2021 virtual. Thanks for coming on. >>Yeah. Thank you john. >>Okay. Dr. 2020 coverage virtual. I'm John for your host of the Cube. Thanks for watching. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah.

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of IBM Think 2021 brought to you by IBM. >> Hey, welcome to theCUBE's coverage of IBM Think 2021. I'm Lisa Martin. I have two IBM alumni with me here today. Please welcome Briana Frank, the Director of Product Management at IBM and Jason McGee is here as well, IBM Fellow, VP and CTO of the,IBM Cloud Platform. Brianna and Jason. Welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thanks Lisa. >> Thank you so much for having us. >> You guys were here a couple of months ago but I know there's been a whole bunch of things going on. So Brianna, we'll start with you. What's new? what's new with IBM Cloud? >> We--it's just, it's been such a rush of announcements lately, but one of my favorite announcements is the IBM Cloud Satellite product. We went GA back in March and this has been one of the most fun projects to work on as a product manager. Because it's all about our clients coming to us and saying, "Hey, look, we're having, these are the problems that we're really facing with as we move to cloud and our journey to cloud and can you help us solve them?" And I think this has been just an exciting place to be in terms of distributed cloud. This new category that's really emerging where we've taken the IBM Cloud but we've distributed into lots of different locations on-prem, at the edge and on other public clouds. And it's been a really fun journey and it's such a great fulfilling thing to see it come to life and see clients using it and getting feedback from analysts and the industry. So it's been a great a few months. >> That's good. Lots of excitement going on. Jason talk to me a little bit about, kind of unpack the cloud satellite from your seat which is flashing in Jason's background as an IBM Cloud Satellite neon sign I love that. But talk to me a little bit about the genesis of it. What were some of the things that customers were asking for? >> Yeah, absolutely. So okay I think as we've talked about a lot at IBM as people have gone on their journey to cloud and moving workloads in the cloud over the last few years. Not all workloads have moved, maybe 20% of workloads have moved to the cloud and that remaining 80%, sometimes the thing that's inhibiting that is regulation, compliance, data latency, where my data lives. And so people have been kind of struggling with how do I get the kind of benefits and speed and agility to public cloud, but apply it to all of these applications that maybe need to live in my data center or need to live on the edge of the network, close to my users or need to live where the data is being generated or in a certain country. And so the genesis of satellite was really to take our hybrid strategy and combine it with the public cloud consumption model and really allow you to have public cloud anywhere you needed it. Bring those public cloud services into your data center or bring them to the edge of the network where your data is being generated and let you get the best of both. And we think that really will unlock the next wave of applications to be able to get the advantages of as a service kind of public cloud consumption while retaining the flexibility to run wherever you need. >> Curious station. Did you see any particular industries in the last year of I don't want to say mayhem, but mayhem taking the lead and the edge in wanting to work with you guys to understand how to really facilitate digital business transformation because we saw a lot of acceleration going on last year. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's interesting cloud is fundamentally a pretty horizontal technology. It applies to lots of industries. But I think this past year especially with COVID and lockdowns and changes in how we all work have accelerated massively clients adoption of cloud. And they've been looking for ways to apply those benefits across more of what they do. And I think there's different drivers there's security compliance drivers maybe in places like the financial services industry but there's also industries like manufacturing and retail that have, they have a geographic footprint like where things run matters to them. And so they're like, "Well, how do I get that kind of remote cloud benefit in all those places too? And so, I've seen some acceleration in those areas. >> And one of the interesting things that I thought has emerged from industry focus is this concept of our FS cloud control. So we have specific control and compliance built into the IBM Cloud. And one of the most prevalent questions I get from clients is "When can I get those FS cloud controls in satellite, in all of these different locations?" And so we've built that in that's coming later this year but I was really surprised to hear every industry. And I guess I shouldn't be surprised I mean, every industry is trading money. So it's important to keep things secure but those FS cloud controls being extended into the satellite location is something I hear it constantly as a need no matter the industry, whether it's retail or insurance et cetera. So I think that the security concerns and being able to offload the burden and chores of security is huge. >> One of the things we saw a lot last year and along the security lines was ransomware. Booming ransomware as a service ransomware getting more personal. I talked to a lot of customers and to your point in different industries that are really focused on, it's not if we get hit by ransomware, it's when. so I'm wondering if that, if some of the things that we saw last year, or maybe why you're seeing this being so such a pervasive need across industries. What do you think? >> Absolutely. I think that it's something that you really have to concentrate on full time and it has to be something you're just maniacally focused on. And we have all kinds of frameworks and actually groups where we're looking at shaping regulation and compliance and it's really something that we study. So if, when we can pass on that expertise to our clients. And again, offload them. So not everyone can be an expert in these areas. I find that relieving. Our clients have these operational and security chores allows them to get back to what they want to do. Which is actually just keep inventing and building better technology for their business. >> I think that's such a-- I think that's such an important point that Briana is bringing it up too that was like part of the value of something like satellite is that we can run these technology platforms as a service. And well, what does as a service means? It means you can tap into a team of people who are the industry's best at building and operating that technology platform. Like maybe you've decided that Kubernetes and OpenShift is your go-forward platform as a business. But do you have the team and skills that you need to operate that yourself? You want to use AI. You probably don't want to become an expert in how to run like whatever the latest and greatest AI framework is. You want to actually like figure out how to apply that to your business. And so we think that part of what's really attracting people to solutions like satellite, especially now with with like the threats you described is that they can tap into this expertise by consuming things as a service instead of figuring out how to run it all themselves. >> Yeah. To that point. A lot of times we see really talented developers. I really like talking to incubation teams where they're building new and they're just trying to figure out how to create the next new thing. And it's not that they're not talented enough. They could do whatever they put their mind to. It's just that they don't have enough time. And they, then it just becomes, comes down to what do you really want to spend your time doing? Is it security and operational chores or is it inventing the next the big thing for your business? And I think that that's where we're seeing the market really shift is that, it's not efficient or a great idea and no one really wants to do that. So if we can offload those chores then that becomes really powerful. >> It does. Resource allocation is key to let those businesses to your point. We're going to focus on their core competencies innovating new products, new services, meeting customers where they are as customers like us become more and more demanding of things they are readily available. I do want to understand a little bit, Jason, help me understand. How this service is differentiated from some of the competitors in the market? >> Yeah. It's a totally fair question. So I would answer that in a couple of ways. First off, anytime you're talking about extending a cloud into some other environment you obviously need some infrastructure for that application to run. And whether that infrastructure is in your data center or at the edge or somewhere else. And one of the things that we've been able to do is by leveraging our hybrid cloud platform by leveraging things like OpenShift and Linux, we've been able to build satellite in a way where you can bring almost any-- infrastructure to the table and use it to run satellite. So we don't require you to buy a certain rack of hardware or a particular gear from us. You don't have to replace all your infrastructure. You can kind of use what you have and extend the cloud. And that to me is all about, if the goal is to help people build things more quickly and consume cloud, like you don't want step one to be like wheel in a whole new data center full hardware before you can get started. The second thing I would say is, we have built our whole cloud on this containerized technology on Kubernetes and OpenShift which means that we're able to deliver more of our portfolio through satellite. We can deliver application platforms and databases and Dev tools and AI and security functions all as a service via satellite. And so the breadth of cloud capability that we think we can deliver in this model is much higher than what I think our competitors are going to be able to do. And then finally, I would say the tie to kind of IBM's view of enterprise and regulated industries, the work Briana mentioned around things like FS cloud the work we're doing in telco. Like we spend a lot of our energy on like, how do we help enterprises regulated industries take advantage of cloud. And we're extending all of that work outside of our cloud data centers with satellite to all these other places. And so you really can move those mission critical applications into a cloud environment when you do it with us. >> Let's talk about some successes. Brianna, tell me about some of the customers that are getting some pretty big business outcomes. And this is a new service. And talk to me about how it's being used, consumed and the benefits. >> Absolutely. What I find a trend that I'm seeing is really the cloud being distributed to the edge. And there are so many interesting use cases I hear every single day about how to really use machine learning and AI at the edge. And so, maybe it's something as simple as a worker safety app or you're making sure that workers are safe using video cameras in an office building and alerting someone if they're going into a construction area and you're using the AI and all of the images that's coming, they're coming in through the security cameras you're doing some analysis and saying, all right this person is wearing a hard hat or not and warning them. But those use cases can be changed so quickly. And we've seen that. And I think I've talked about it before with COVID you changed that to masks. You could change that you could hook up the application of thermal devices. We've seen situations where machine learning is used at the manufacturing edge. So you can determine if there's an issue with your production of in a factory we're seeing as use cases in hospitals in terms of keeping the waiting room sanitized because of over usage. So there's all kinds of just really interesting solutions. And I think this is kind of the next area where we're really able to, and even partner with folks that have extraordinary vertical expertise in a specific area and bringing that to life at the edge and being able to really process that data at the edge so that there's very little latency. And then also you're able to change those use cases so quickly because you're really consuming cloud native best practices in cloud. Cloud services at the edge. So you're not having to install and manage and operate those services at the edge it's done for you. >> I'd mentioned changing the ability to change use cases so quickly in a year that plus that we've seen so much dynamics and pivoting is really key for businesses in any industry Brianna. >> I agree. And that's the thing. There hasn't been one particular industry. I think of course we do see a lot in the financial services industry, just probably cause we're IBM, but in every industry, we see retail, it's interesting to see sporting goods companies want to have pop-up shops at a specific sporting events. And how do you have a van that is a sporting good shop but it's just there temporarily. And how do you have a satellite location in the van? So there's really interesting use cases that have emerge just over time due to the need to have this capability at the edge. >> Yeah. Necessity is the mother of invention, as they say right? Well, thank you both so much for stopping by and sharing what's going on with IBM Cloud Satellite, the new service, the new offerings, the opportunities in it for customers. I'm sure it's going to be another exciting year for IBM cause you clearly have been very busy. Thank you both for stopping by the program. >> Thank you. >> Thanks so much Lisa. >> For Briana Frank and Jason McGee. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE. Live coverage of IBM Think. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting enterprise. Digital resilience on hybrid and multi cloud Brought to You by Iota Ho. Hello, everyone, and welcome to our continuing Siri's covering data automation brought to you by Io Tahoe. Today we're gonna look at how to ensure enterprise resilience for hybrid and multi cloud. Let's welcome in age. Eva Hora, who is the CEO of Iota A J. Always good to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >>Great to be back. David Pleasure. >>And he's joined by Fozzy Coons, who is a global principal architect for financial services. The vertical of financial services. That red hat. He's got deep experiences in that sector. Welcome, Fozzie. Good to see you. >>Thank you very much. Happy to be here. >>Fancy. Let's start with you. Look, there are a lot of views on cloud and what it is. I wonder if you could explain to us how you think about what is a hybrid cloud and and how it works. >>Sure, yes. So the hybrid cloud is a 90 architecture that incorporates some degree off workload, possibility, orchestration and management across multiple clouds. Those clouds could be private cloud or public cloud or even your own data centers. And how does it all work? It's all about secure interconnectivity and on demand. Allocation of resources across clouds and separate clouds can become hydrate when they're similarly >>interconnected. And >>it is that interconnectivity that allows the workloads workers to be moved and how management can be unified in off the street. You can work and how well you have. These interconnections has a direct impact on how well your hybrid cloud will work. >>Okay, so we'll fancy staying with you for a minute. So in the early days of Cloud that turned private Cloud was thrown a lot around a lot, but often just meant virtualization of an on PREM system and a network connection to the public cloud. Let's bring it forward. What, in your view, does a modern hybrid cloud architecture look like? >>Sure. So for modern public clouds, we see that, um, teams organizations need to focus on the portability off applications across clouds. That's very important, right? And when organizations build applications, they need to build and deploy these applications as small collections off independently, loosely coupled services, and then have those things run on the same operating system which means, in other words, running it on Lenox everywhere and building cloud native applications and being able to manage and orchestrate thes applications with platforms like KUBERNETES or read it open shit, for example. >>Okay, so that Z, that's definitely different from building a monolithic application that's fossilized and and doesn't move. So what are the challenges for customers, you know, to get to that modern cloud? Aziz, you've just described it. Is it skill sets? Is that the ability to leverage things like containers? What's your view there? >>So, I mean, from what we've seen around around the industry, especially around financial services, where I spent most of my time, we see that the first thing that we see is management right now because you have all these clouds and all these applications, you have a massive array off connections off interconnections. You also have massive array off integrations, possibility and resource allocations as well, and then orchestrating all those different moving pieces. Things like storage networks and things like those are really difficult to manage, right? That's one. What s O Management is the first challenge. The second one is workload, placement, placement. Where do you place this? How do you place this cloud? Native applications. Do you or do you keep on site on Prem? And what do you put in the cloud? That is the the the other challenge. The major one. The third one is security. Security now becomes the key challenge and concern for most customers. And we could talk about how hundreds? Yeah, >>we're definitely gonna dig into that. Let's bring a J into the conversation. A J. You know, you and I have talked about this in the past. One of the big problems that virtually every companies face is data fragmentation. Um, talk a little bit about how I owe Tahoe unifies data across both traditional systems legacy systems. And it connects to these modern I t environments. >>Yeah, sure, Dave. I mean, fancy just nailed it. There used to be about data of the volume of data on the different types of data. But as applications become or connected and interconnected at the location of that data really matters how we serve that data up to those those app. So working with red hat in our partnership with Red Hat being able Thio, inject our data Discovery machine learning into these multiple different locations. Would it be in AWS on IBM Cloud or A D. C p R. On Prem being able thio Automate that discovery? I'm pulling that. That single view of where is all my data then allows the CEO to manage cast that can do things like one. I keep the data where it is on premise or in my Oracle Cloud or in my IBM cloud on Connect. The application that needs to feed off that data on the way in which you do that is machine learning. That learns over time is it recognizes different types of data, applies policies to declassify that data. Andi and brings it all together with automation. >>Right? And that's one of the big themes and we've talked about this on earlier episodes. Is really simplification really abstracting a lot of that heavy lifting away so we can focus on things A. J A. Z. You just mentioned e nifaz e. One of the big challenges that, of course, we all talk about his governance across thes disparity data sets. I'm curious as your thoughts. How does Red Hat really think about helping customers adhere to corporate edicts and compliance regulations, which, of course, are are particularly acute within financial services. >>Oh, yeah, Yes. So for banks and the payment providers, like you've just mentioned their insurers and many other financial services firms, Um, you know, they have to adhere Thio standards such as a PC. I. D. S s in Europe. You've got the G g d p g d p r, which requires strange and tracking, reporting documentation. And you know, for them to to remain in compliance and the way we recommend our customers to address these challenges is by having an automation strategy. Right. And that type of strategy can help you to improve the security on compliance off the organization and reduce the risk after the business. Right. And we help organizations build security and compliance from the start without consulting services residencies. We also offer courses that help customers to understand how to address some of these challenges. And that's also we help organizations build security into their applications without open sources. Mueller, where, um, middle offerings and even using a platform like open shift because it allows you to run legacy applications and also continue rights applications in a unified platform right And also that provides you with, you know, with the automation and the truly that you need to continuously monitor, manage and automate the systems for security and compliance >>purposes. Hey, >>Jay, anything. Any color you could add to this conversation? >>Yeah, I'm pleased. Badly brought up Open shift. I mean, we're using open shift to be able. Thio, take that security application of controls to to the data level. It's all about context. So, understanding what data is there being able to assess it to say who should have access to it. Which application permission should be applied to it. Um, that za great combination of Red Hat tonight. Tahoe. >>But what about multi Cloud? Doesn't that complicate the situation even even further? Maybe you could talk about some of the best practices to apply automation across not only hybrid cloud, but multi >>cloud a swell. Yeah, sure. >>Yeah. So the right automation solution, you know, can be the difference between, you know, cultivating an automated enterprise or automation caress. And some of the recommendations we give our clients is to look for an automation platform that can offer the first thing is complete support. So that means have an automation solution that provides that provides, um, you know, promotes I t availability and reliability with your platform so that you can provide, you know, enterprise great support, including security and testing, integration and clear roadmaps. The second thing is vendor interoperability interoperability in that you are going to be integrating multiple clouds. So you're going to need a solution that can connect to multiple clouds. Simples lee, right? And with that comes the challenge off maintain ability. So you you you're going to need to look into a automation Ah, solution that that is easy to learn or has an easy learning curve. And then the fourth idea that we tell our customers is scalability in the in the hybrid cloud space scale is >>is >>a big, big deal here, and you need a to deploy an automation solution that can span across the whole enterprise in a constituent, consistent manner, right? And then also, that allows you finally to, uh, integrate the multiple data centers that you have, >>So A J I mean, this is a complicated situation, for if a customer has toe, make sure things work on AWS or azure or Google. Uh, they're gonna spend all their time doing that, huh? What can you add really? To simplify that that multi cloud and hybrid cloud equation? >>Yeah. I could give a few customer examples here Warming a manufacturer that we've worked with to drive that simplification Onda riel bonuses for them is has been a reduction cost. We worked with them late last year to bring the cost bend down by $10 million in 2021 so they could hit that reduced budget. Andre, What we brought to that was the ability thio deploy using open shift templates into their different environments. Where there is on premise on bond or in as you mentioned, a W s. They had G cps well, for their marketing team on a cross, those different platforms being out Thio use a template, use pre built scripts to get up and running in catalog and discover that data within minutes. It takes away the legacy of having teams of people having Thio to jump on workshop cause and I know we're all on a lot of teens. The zoom cause, um, in these current times, they just sent me is in in of hours in the day Thio manually perform all of this. So yeah, working with red hat applying machine learning into those templates those little recipes that we can put that automation toe work, regardless of which location the data is in allows us thio pull that unified view together. Right? >>Thank you, Fozzie. I wanna come back to you. So the early days of cloud, you're in the big apple, you know, financial services. Really well. Cloud was like an evil word within financial services, and obviously that's changed. It's evolved. We talked about the pandemic, has even accelerated that, Um And when you really, you know, dug into it when you talk to customers about their experiences with security in the cloud it was it was not that it wasn't good. It was great, whatever. But it was different. And there's always this issue of skill, lack of skills and multiple tools suck up teams, they're really overburdened. But in the cloud requires new thinking. You've got the shared responsibility model you've got obviously have specific corporate requirements and compliance. So this is even more complicated when you introduce multiple clouds. So what are the differences that you can share from your experience is running on a sort of either on Prem or on a mono cloud, um, or, you know, and versus across clouds. What? What? What do you suggest there? >>Yeah, you know, because of these complexities that you have explained here, Miss Configurations and the inadequate change control the top security threats. So human error is what we want to avoid because is, you know, as your clouds grow with complexity and you put humans in the mix, then the rate off eras is going to increase, and that is going to exposure to security threat. So this is where automation comes in because automation will streamline and increase the consistency off your infrastructure management. Also application development and even security operations to improve in your protection, compliance and change control. So you want to consistently configure resources according to a pre approved um, you know, pre approved policies and you want to proactively maintain a to them in a repeatable fashion over the whole life cycle. And then you also want to rapid the identified system that require patches and and reconfiguration and automate that process off patching and reconfiguring so that you don't have humans doing this type of thing, right? And you want to be able to easily apply patches and change assistant settings. According Thio, Pre defined, based on like explained before, you know, with the pre approved policies and also you want is off auditing and troubleshooting, right? And from a rate of perspective, we provide tools that enable you to do this. We have, for example, a tool called danceable that enables you to automate data center operations and security and also deployment of applications and also obvious shit yourself, you know, automates most of these things and obstruct the human beings from putting their fingers on, causing, uh, potentially introducing errors right now in looking into the new world off multiple clouds and so forth. The difference is that we're seeing here between running a single cloud or on prem is three main areas which is control security and compliance. Right control here it means if your on premise or you have one cloud, um, you know, in most cases you have control over your data and your applications, especially if you're on Prem. However, if you're in the public cloud, there is a difference there. The ownership, it is still yours. But your resources are running on somebody else's or the public clouds. You know, e w s and so forth infrastructure. So people that are going to do this need to really especially banks and governments need to be aware off the regulatory constraints off running, uh, those applications in the public cloud. And we also help customers regionalize some of these choices and also on security. You will see that if you're running on premises or in a single cloud, you have more control, especially if you're on Prem. You can control this sensitive information that you have, however, in the cloud. That's a different situation, especially from personal information of employees and things like that. You need to be really careful off that. And also again, we help you rationalize some of those choices. And then the last one is compliant. Aziz. Well, you see that if you're running on Prem or a single cloud, um, regulations come into play again, right? And if you're running a problem, you have control over that. You can document everything you have access to everything that you need. But if you're gonna go to the public cloud again, you need to think about that. We have automation, and we have standards that can help you, uh, you know, address some of these challenges for security and compliance. >>So that's really strong insights, Potsie. I mean, first of all, answerable has a lot of market momentum. Red hats in a really good job with that acquisition, your point about repeatability is critical because you can't scale otherwise. And then that idea you're you're putting forth about control, security compliance It's so true is I called it the shared responsibility model. And there was a lot of misunderstanding in the early days of cloud. I mean, yeah, maybe a W s is gonna physically secure the, you know, s three, but in the bucket. But we saw so many Miss configurations early on. And so it's key to have partners that really understand this stuff and can share the experiences of other clients. So this all sounds great. A j. You're sharp, you know, financial background. What about the economics? >>You >>know, our survey data shows that security it's at the top of the spending priority list, but budgets are stretched thin. E especially when you think about the work from home pivot and and all the areas that they had toe the holes that they had to fill their, whether it was laptops, you know, new security models, etcetera. So how do organizations pay for this? What's the business case look like in terms of maybe reducing infrastructure costs so I could, you know, pay it forward or there's a There's a risk reduction angle. What can you share >>their? Yeah. I mean, the perspective I'd like to give here is, um, not being multi cloud is multi copies of an application or data. When I think about 20 years, a lot of the work in financial services I was looking at with managing copies of data that we're feeding different pipelines, different applications. Now what we're saying I talk a lot of the work that we're doing is reducing the number of copies of that data so that if I've got a product lifecycle management set of data, if I'm a manufacturer, I'm just gonna keep that in one location. But across my different clouds, I'm gonna have best of breed applications developed in house third parties in collaboration with my supply chain connecting securely to that. That single version of the truth. What I'm not going to do is to copy that data. So ah, lot of what we're seeing now is that interconnectivity using applications built on kubernetes. Um, that decoupled from the data source that allows us to reduce those copies of data within that you're gaining from the security capability and resilience because you're not leaving yourself open to those multiple copies of data on with that. Couldn't come. Cost, cost of storage on duh cost of compute. So what we're seeing is using multi cloud to leverage the best of what each cloud platform has to offer That goes all the way to Snowflake and Hiroko on Cloud manage databases, too. >>Well, and the people cost to a swell when you think about yes, the copy creep. But then you know when something goes wrong, a human has to come in and figured out um, you brought up snowflake, get this vision of the data cloud, which is, you know, data data. I think this we're gonna be rethinking a j, uh, data architectures in the coming decade where data stays where it belongs. It's distributed, and you're providing access. Like you said, you're separating the data from the applications applications as we talked about with Fozzie. Much more portable. So it Z really the last 10 years will be different than the next 10 years. A. >>J Definitely. I think the people cast election is used. Gone are the days where you needed thio have a dozen people governing managing black policies to data. Ah, lot of that repetitive work. Those tests can be in power automated. We've seen examples in insurance were reduced teams of 15 people working in the the back office China apply security controls compliance down to just a couple of people who are looking at the exceptions that don't fit. And that's really important because maybe two years ago the emphasis was on regulatory compliance of data with policies such as GDP are in CCP a last year, very much the economic effect of reduce headcounts on on enterprises of running lean looking to reduce that cost. This year, we can see that already some of the more proactive cos they're looking at initiatives such as net zero emissions how they use data toe under understand how cape how they can become more have a better social impact. Um, and using data to drive that, and that's across all of their operations and supply chain. So those regulatory compliance issues that may have been external we see similar patterns emerging for internal initiatives that benefiting the environment, social impact and and, of course, course, >>great perspectives. Yeah, Jeff Hammer, Bucker once famously said, The best minds of my generation are trying to get people to click on ads and a J. Those examples that you just gave of, you know, social good and moving. Uh, things forward are really critical. And I think that's where Data is gonna have the biggest societal impact. Okay, guys, great conversation. Thanks so much for coming on the program. Really appreciate your time. Keep it right there from, or insight and conversation around, creating a resilient digital business model. You're watching the >>Cube digital resilience, automated compliance, privacy and security for your multi cloud. Congratulations. You're on the journey. You have successfully transformed your organization by moving to a cloud based platform to ensure business continuity in these challenging times. But as you scale your digital activities, there is an inevitable influx of users that outpaces traditional methods of cybersecurity, exposing your data toe underlying threats on making your company susceptible toe ever greater risk to become digitally resilient. Have you applied controls your data continuously throughout the data Lifecycle? What are you doing to keep your customer on supply data private and secure? I owe Tahoe's automated, sensitive data. Discovery is pre programmed with over 300 existing policies that meet government mandated risk and compliance standards. Thes automate the process of applying policies and controls to your data. Our algorithm driven recommendation engine alerts you to risk exposure at the data level and suggests the appropriate next steps to remain compliant on ensure sensitive data is secure. Unsure about where your organization stands In terms of digital resilience, Sign up for a minimal cost commitment. Free data Health check. Let us run our sensitive data discovery on key unmapped data silos and sources to give you a clear understanding of what's in your environment. Book time within Iot. Tahoe Engineer Now >>Okay, let's now get into the next segment where we'll explore data automation. But from the angle of digital resilience within and as a service consumption model, we're now joined by Yusuf Khan, who heads data services for Iot, Tahoe and Shirish County up in. Who's the vice president and head of U. S. Sales at happiest Minds? Gents, welcome to the program. Great to have you in the Cube. >>Thank you, David. >>Trust you guys talk about happiest minds. This notion of born digital, foreign agile. I like that. But talk about your mission at the company. >>Sure. >>A former in 2011 Happiest Mind is a born digital born a child company. The reason is that we are focused on customers. Our customer centric approach on delivering digitals and seamless solutions have helped us be in the race. Along with the Tier one providers, Our mission, happiest people, happiest customers is focused to enable customer happiness through people happiness. We have Bean ranked among the top 25 i t services company in the great places to work serving hour glass to ratings off 41 against the rating off. Five is among the job in the Indian nineties services company that >>shows the >>mission on the culture. What we have built on the values right sharing, mindful, integrity, learning and social on social responsibilities are the core values off our company on. That's where the entire culture of the company has been built. >>That's great. That sounds like a happy place to be. Now you said you had up data services for Iot Tahoe. We've talked in the past. Of course you're out of London. What >>do you what? Your >>day to day focus with customers and partners. What you focused >>on? Well, David, my team work daily with customers and partners to help them better understand their data, improve their data quality, their data governance on help them make that data more accessible in a self service kind of way. To the stakeholders within those businesses on dis is all a key part of digital resilience that will will come on to talk about but later. You're >>right, e mean, that self service theme is something that we're gonna we're gonna really accelerate this decade, Yussef and so. But I wonder before we get into that, maybe you could talk about the nature of the partnership with happiest minds, you know? Why do you guys choose toe work closely together? >>Very good question. Um, we see Hyo Tahoe on happiest minds as a great mutual fit. A Suresh has said, uh, happiest minds are very agile organization um, I think that's one of the key things that attracts their customers on Io. Tahoe is all about automation. Uh, we're using machine learning algorithms to make data discovery data cataloging, understanding, data done. See, uh, much easier on. We're enabling customers and partners to do it much more quickly. So when you combine our emphasis on automation with the emphasis on agility that happiest minds have that that's a really nice combination work works very well together, very powerful. I think the other things that a key are both businesses, a serious have said, are really innovative digital native type type companies. Um, very focused on newer technologies, the cloud etcetera on. Then finally, I think they're both Challenger brands on happiest minds have a really positive, fresh ethical approach to people and customers that really resonates with us at Ideo Tahoe to >>great thank you for that. So Russia, let's get into the whole notion of digital resilience. I wanna I wanna sort of set it up with what I see, and maybe you can comment be prior to the pandemic. A lot of customers that kind of equated disaster recovery with their business continuance or business resilient strategy, and that's changed almost overnight. How have you seen your clients respond to that? What? I sometimes called the forced march to become a digital business. And maybe you could talk about some of the challenges that they faced along the way. >>Absolutely. So, uh, especially during this pandemic, times when you say Dave, customers have been having tough times managing their business. So happiest minds. Being a digital Brazilian company, we were able to react much faster in the industry, apart from the other services company. So one of the key things is the organisation's trying to adopt onto the digital technologies. Right there has bean lot off data which has been to manage by these customers on There have been lot off threats and risk, which has been to manage by the CEO Seo's so happiest minds digital resilient technology, right where we bring in the data. Complaints as a service were ableto manage the resilience much ahead off other competitors in the market. We were ableto bring in our business continuity processes from day one, where we were ableto deliver our services without any interruption to the services. What we were delivered to our customers So that is where the digital resilience with business community process enabled was very helpful for us. Toe enable our customers continue their business without any interruptions during pandemics. >>So I mean, some of the challenges that customers tell me they obviously they had to figure out how to get laptops to remote workers and that that whole remote work from home pivot figure out how to secure the end points. And, you know, those were kind of looking back there kind of table stakes, But it sounds like you've got a digital business. Means a data business putting data at the core, I like to say, but so I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about maybe the philosophy you have toward digital resilience in the specific approach you take with clients? >>Absolutely. They seen any organization data becomes. The key on that, for the first step is to identify the critical data. Right. So we this is a six step process. What we following happiest minds. First of all, we take stock off the current state, though the customers think that they have a clear visibility off their data. How are we do more often assessment from an external point off view on see how critical their data is, then we help the customers to strategies that right. The most important thing is to identify the most important critical herself. Data being the most critical assert for any organization. Identification off the data's key for the customers. Then we help in building a viable operating model to ensure these identified critical assets are secure on monitor dearly so that they are consumed well as well as protected from external threats. Then, as 1/4 step, we try to bring in awareness, toe the people we train them >>at >>all levels in the organization. That is a P for people to understand the importance off the digital ourselves and then as 1/5 step, we work as a back up plan in terms of bringing in a very comprehensive and a holistic testing approach on people process as well as in technology. We'll see how the organization can withstand during a crisis time, and finally we do a continuous governance off this data, which is a key right. It is not just a one step process. We set up the environment, we do the initial analysis and set up the strategy on continuously govern this data to ensure that they are not only know managed will secure as well as they also have to meet the compliance requirements off the organization's right. That is where we help organizations toe secure on Meet the regulations off the organizations. As for the privacy laws, so this is a constant process. It's not on one time effort. We do a constant process because every organization goes towards their digital journey on. They have to face all these as part off the evolving environment on digital journey. And that's where they should be kept ready in terms off. No recovering, rebounding on moving forward if things goes wrong. >>So let's stick on that for a minute, and then I wanna bring yourself into the conversation. So you mentioned compliance and governance when when your digital business, you're, as you say, you're a data business, so that brings up issues. Data sovereignty. Uh, there's governance, this compliance. There's things like right to be forgotten. There's data privacy, so many things. These were often kind of afterthoughts for businesses that bolted on, if you will. I know a lot of executives are very much concerned that these air built in on, and it's not a one shot deal. So do you have solutions around compliance and governance? Can you deliver that as a service? Maybe you could talk about some of the specifics there, >>so some of way have offered multiple services. Tow our customers on digital against. On one of the key service is the data complaints. As a service here we help organizations toe map the key data against the data compliance requirements. Some of the features includes in terms off the continuous discovery off data right, because organizations keep adding on data when they move more digital on helping the helping and understanding the actual data in terms off the residents of data, it could be a heterogeneous data soldiers. It could be on data basis, or it could be even on the data legs. Or it could be a no even on compromise all the cloud environment. So identifying the data across the various no heterogeneous environment is very key. Feature off our solution. Once we identify classify this sensitive data, the data privacy regulations on the traveling laws have to be map based on the business rules So we define those rules on help map those data so that organizations know how critical their digital assets are. Then we work on a continuous marching off data for anomalies because that's one of the key teachers off the solution, which needs to be implemented on the day to day operational basis. So we're helping monitoring those anomalies off data for data quality management on an ongoing basis. On finally, we also bringing the automated data governance where we can manage the sensory data policies on their later relationships in terms off mapping on manage their business roots on we drive reputations toe Also suggest appropriate actions to the customers. Take on those specific data sets. >>Great. Thank you, Yousef. Thanks for being patient. I want to bring in Iota ho thio discussion and understand where your customers and happiest minds can leverage your data automation capability that you and I have talked about in the past. I'm gonna be great if you had an example is well, but maybe you could pick it up from there, >>John. I mean, at a high level, assertions are clearly articulated. Really? Um, Hyoty, who delivers business agility. So that's by, um accelerating the time to operationalize data, automating, putting in place controls and actually putting helping put in place digital resilience. I mean way if we step back a little bit in time, um, traditional resilience in relation to data often met manually, making multiple copies of the same data. So you have a d b A. They would copy the data to various different places, and then business users would access it in those functional style owes. And of course, what happened was you ended up with lots of different copies off the same data around the enterprise. Very inefficient. ONDA course ultimately, uh, increases your risk profile. Your risk of a data breach. Um, it's very hard to know where everything is. And I realized that expression. They used David the idea of the forced march to digital. So with enterprises that are going on this forced march, what they're finding is they don't have a single version of the truth, and almost nobody has an accurate view of where their critical data is. Then you have containers bond with containers that enables a big leap forward so you could break applications down into micro services. Updates are available via a p I s on. So you don't have the same need thio to build and to manage multiple copies of the data. So you have an opportunity to just have a single version of the truth. Then your challenge is, how do you deal with these large legacy data states that the service has been referring Thio, where you you have toe consolidate and that's really where I attack comes in. Um, we massively accelerate that process of putting in a single version of the truth into place. So by automatically discovering the data, discovering what's dubica? What's redundant? Uh, that means you can consolidate it down to a single trusted version much more quickly. We've seen many customers have tried to do this manually, and it's literally taken years using manual methods to cover even a small percentage of their I T estates. With our tire, you could do it really very quickly on you can have tangible results within weeks and months on Ben, you can apply controls to the data based on context. So who's the user? What's the content? What's the use case? Things like data quality validations or access permissions on. Then, once you've done there. Your applications and your enterprise are much more secure, much more resilient. As a result, you've got to do these things whilst retaining agility, though. So coming full circle. This is where the partnership with happiest minds really comes in as well. You've got to be agile. You've gotta have controls. Um, on you've got a drug toward the business outcomes. Uh, and it's doing those three things together that really deliver for the customer. >>Thank you. Use f. I mean you and I. In previous episodes, we've looked in detail at the business case. You were just talking about the manual labor involved. We know that you can't scale, but also there's that compression of time. Thio get to the next step in terms of ultimately getting to the outcome. And we talked to a number of customers in the Cube, and the conclusion is, it's really consistent that if you could accelerate the time to value, that's the key driver reducing complexity, automating and getting to insights faster. That's where you see telephone numbers in terms of business impact. So my question is, where should customers start? I mean, how can they take advantage of some of these opportunities that we've discussed today. >>Well, we've tried to make that easy for customers. So with our Tahoe and happiest minds, you can very quickly do what we call a data health check. Um, this is a is a 2 to 3 week process, uh, to really quickly start to understand on deliver value from your data. Um, so, iota, who deploys into the customer environment? Data doesn't go anywhere. Um, we would look at a few data sources on a sample of data. Onda. We can very rapidly demonstrate how they discovery those catalog e on understanding Jupiter data and redundant data can be done. Um, using machine learning, um, on how those problems can be solved. Um, And so what we tend to find is that we can very quickly, as I say in the matter of a few weeks, show a customer how they could get toe, um, or Brazilian outcome on then how they can scale that up, take it into production on, then really understand their data state? Better on build. Um, Brasiliense into the enterprise. >>Excellent. There you have it. We'll leave it right there. Guys, great conversation. Thanks so much for coming on the program. Best of luck to you and the partnership Be well, >>Thank you, David Suresh. Thank you. Thank >>you for watching everybody, This is Dave Volonte for the Cuban are ongoing Siris on data automation without >>Tahoe, digital resilience, automated compliance, privacy and security for your multi cloud. Congratulations. You're on the journey. You have successfully transformed your organization by moving to a cloud based platform to ensure business continuity in these challenging times. But as you scale your digital activities, there is an inevitable influx of users that outpaces traditional methods of cybersecurity, exposing your data toe underlying threats on making your company susceptible toe ever greater risk to become digitally resilient. Have you applied controls your data continuously throughout the data lifecycle? What are you doing to keep your customer on supply data private and secure? I owe Tahoe's automated sensitive data. Discovery is pre programmed with over 300 existing policies that meet government mandated risk and compliance standards. Thes automate the process of applying policies and controls to your data. Our algorithm driven recommendation engine alerts you to risk exposure at the data level and suggests the appropriate next steps to remain compliant on ensure sensitive data is secure. Unsure about where your organization stands in terms of digital resilience. Sign up for our minimal cost commitment. Free data health check. Let us run our sensitive data discovery on key unmapped data silos and sources to give you a clear understanding of what's in your environment. Book time within Iot. Tahoe Engineer. Now. >>Okay, now we're >>gonna go into the demo. We want to get a better understanding of how you can leverage open shift. And I owe Tahoe to facilitate faster application deployment. Let me pass the mic to Sabetta. Take it away. >>Uh, thanks, Dave. Happy to be here again, Guys, uh, they've mentioned names to be the Davis. I'm the enterprise account executive here. Toyota ho eso Today we just wanted to give you guys a general overview of how we're using open shift. Yeah. Hey, I'm Noah Iota host data operations engineer, working with open ship. And I've been learning the Internets of open shift for, like, the past few months, and I'm here to share. What a plan. Okay, so So before we begin, I'm sure everybody wants to know. Noel, what are the benefits of using open shift. Well, there's five that I can think of a faster time, the operation simplicity, automation control and digital resilience. Okay, so that that's really interesting, because there's an exact same benefits that we had a Tahoe delivered to our customers. But let's start with faster time the operation by running iota. Who on open shift? Is it faster than, let's say, using kubernetes and other platforms >>are >>objective iota. Who is to be accessible across multiple cloud platforms, right? And so by hosting our application and containers were able to achieve this. So to answer your question, it's faster to create and use your application images using container tools like kubernetes with open shift as compared to, like kubernetes with docker cry over container D. Okay, so we got a bit technical there. Can you explain that in a bit more detail? Yeah, there's a bit of vocabulary involved, uh, so basically, containers are used in developing things like databases, Web servers or applications such as I have top. What's great about containers is that they split the workload so developers can select the libraries without breaking anything. And since Hammond's can update the host without interrupting the programmers. Uh, now, open shift works hand in hand with kubernetes to provide a way to build those containers for applications. Okay, got It s basically containers make life easier for developers and system happens. How does open shift differ from other platforms? Well, this kind of leads into the second benefit I want to talk about, which is simplicity. Basically, there's a lot of steps involved with when using kubernetes with docker. But open shift simplifies this with their source to image process that takes the source code and turns it into a container image. But that's not all. Open shift has a lot of automation and features that simplify working with containers, an important one being its Web console. Here. I've set up a light version of open ship called Code Ready Containers, and I was able to set up her application right from the Web console. And I was able to set up this entire thing in Windows, Mac and Lennox. So its environment agnostic in that sense. Okay, so I think I've seen the top left that this is a developers view. What would a systems admin view look like? It's a good question. So here's the administrator view and this kind of ties into the benefit of control. Um, this view gives insights into each one of the applications and containers that are running, and you could make changes without affecting deployment. Andi can also, within this view, set up each layer of security, and there's multiple that you can prop up. But I haven't fully messed around with it because with my luck, I'd probably locked myself out. So that seems pretty secure. Is there a single point security such as you use a log in? Or are there multiple layers of security? Yeah, there are multiple layers of security. There's your user login security groups and general role based access controls. Um, but there's also a ton of layers of security surrounding like the containers themselves. But for the sake of time, I won't get too far into it. Okay, eso you mentioned simplicity In time. The operation is being two of the benefits. You also briefly mention automation. And as you know, automation is the backbone of our platform here, Toyota Ho. So that's certainly grabbed my attention. Can you go a bit more in depth in terms of automation? Open shift provides extensive automation that speeds up that time the operation. Right. So the latest versions of open should come with a built in cryo container engine, which basically means that you get to skip that container engine insulation step and you don't have to, like, log into each individual container host and configure networking, configure registry servers, storage, etcetera. So I'd say, uh, it automates the more boring kind of tedious process is Okay, so I see the iota ho template there. What does it allow me to do? Um, in terms of automation in application development. So we've created an open shift template which contains our application. This allows developers thio instantly, like set up our product within that template. So, Noah Last question. Speaking of vocabulary, you mentioned earlier digital resilience of the term we're hearing, especially in the banking and finance world. Um, it seems from what you described, industries like banking and finance would be more resilient using open shift, Correct. Yeah, In terms of digital resilience, open shift will give you better control over the consumption of resource is each container is using. In addition, the benefit of containers is that, like I mentioned earlier since Hammond's can troubleshoot servers about bringing down the application and if the application does go down is easy to bring it back up using templates and, like the other automation features that open ship provides. Okay, so thanks so much. Know us? So any final thoughts you want to share? Yeah. I just want to give a quick recap with, like, the five benefits that you gained by using open shift. Uh, the five are timeto operation automation, control, security and simplicity. You could deploy applications faster. You could simplify the workload you could automate. A lot of the otherwise tedious processes can maintain full control over your workflow. And you could assert digital resilience within your environment. Guys, >>Thanks for that. Appreciate the demo. Um, I wonder you guys have been talking about the combination of a Iot Tahoe and red hat. Can you tie that in subito Digital resilience >>Specifically? Yeah, sure, Dave eso when we speak to the benefits of security controls in terms of digital resilience at Io Tahoe, we automated detection and apply controls at the data level, so this would provide for more enhanced security. >>Okay, But so if you were trying to do all these things manually. I mean, what what does that do? How much time can I compress? What's the time to value? >>So with our latest versions, Biota we're taking advantage of faster deployment time associated with container ization and kubernetes. So this kind of speeds up the time it takes for customers. Start using our software as they be ableto quickly spin up io towel on their own on premise environment are otherwise in their own cloud environment, like including aws. Assure or call GP on IBM Cloud a quick start templates allow flexibility deploy into multi cloud environments all just using, like, a few clicks. Okay, so so now just quickly add So what we've done iota, Who here is We've really moved our customers away from the whole idea of needing a team of engineers to apply controls to data as compared to other manually driven work flows. Eso with templates, automation, previous policies and data controls. One person can be fully operational within a few hours and achieve results straight out of the box on any cloud. >>Yeah, we've been talking about this theme of abstracting the complexity. That's really what we're seeing is a major trend in in this coming decade. Okay, great. Thanks, Sabina. Noah, How could people get more information or if they have any follow up questions? Where should they go? >>Yeah, sure. They've. I mean, if you guys are interested in learning more, you know, reach out to us at info at iata ho dot com to speak with one of our sales engineers. I mean, we love to hear from you, so book a meeting as soon as you can. All >>right. Thanks, guys. Keep it right there from or cube content with.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE presenting Enterprise Digital Resilience on Hybrid and multicloud brought to you by io/tahoe >> Hello everyone, and welcome to our continuing series covering data automation brought to you by io/tahoe. Today we're going to look at how to ensure enterprise resilience for hybrid and multicloud, let's welcome in Ajay Vohora who's the CEO of io/tahoe Ajay, always good to see you again, thanks for coming on. >> Great to be back David, pleasure. >> And he's joined by Fadzi Ushewokunze, who is a global principal architect for financial services, the vertical of financial services at Red Hat. He's got deep experiences in that sector. Welcome Fadzi, good to see you. >> Thank you very much. Happy to be here. >> Fadzi, let's start with you. Look, there are a lot of views on cloud and what it is. I wonder if you could explain to us how you think about what is a hybrid cloud and how it works. >> Sure, Yeah. So, a hybrid cloud is an IT architecture that incorporates some degree of workload portability, orchestration and management across multiple clouds. Those clouds could be private clouds or public clouds or even your own data centers. And how does it all work? It's all about secure interconnectivity and on demand allocation of resources across clouds. And separate clouds can become hybrid when you're seamlessly interconnected. And it is that interconnectivity that allows the workloads to be moved and how management can be unified and orchestration can work. And how well you have these interconnections has a direct impact of how well your hybrid cloud will work. >> Okay, so well Fadzi, staying with you for a minute. So, in the early days of cloud that term private cloud was thrown around a lot. But it often just meant virtualization of an on-prem system and a network connection to the public cloud. Let's bring it forward. What, in your view does a modern hybrid cloud architecture look like? >> Sure, so, for modern hybrid clouds we see that teams or organizations need to focus on the portability of applications across clouds. That's very important, right. And when organizations build applications they need to build and deploy these applications as a small collections of independently loosely coupled services. And then have those things run on the same operating system, which means in other words, running it all Linux everywhere and building cloud native applications and being able to manage it and orchestrate these applications with platforms like Kubernetes or Red Hat OpenShift, for example. >> Okay, so, Fadzi that's definitely different from building a monolithic application that's fossilized and doesn't move. So, what are the challenges for customers, you know, to get to that modern cloud is as you've just described it as it skillsets, is it the ability to leverage things like containers? What's your View there? >> So, I mean, from what we've seen around the industry especially around financial services where I spend most of my time. We see that the first thing that we see is management, right. Now, because you have all these clouds, you know, all these applications. You have a massive array of connections, of interconnections. You also have massive array of integrations portability and resource allocation as well. And then orchestrating all those different moving pieces things like storage networks. Those are really difficult to manage, right? So, management is the first challenge. The second one is workload placement. Where do you place this cloud? How do you place these cloud native operations? Do you, what do you keep on site on prem and what do you put in the cloud? That is the other challenge. The major one, the third one is security. Security now becomes the key challenge and concern for most customers. And we're going to talk about how to address that. >> Yeah, we're definitely going to dig into that. Let's bring Ajay into the conversation. Ajay, you know, you and I have talked about this in the past. One of the big problems that virtually every company face is data fragmentation. Talk a little bit about how io/tahoe, unifies data across both traditional systems, legacy systems and it connects to these modern IT environments. >> Yeah, sure Dave. I mean, a Fadzi just nailed it there. It used to be about data, the volume of data and the different types of data, but as applications become more connected and interconnected the location of that data really matters. How we serve that data up to those apps. So, working with Red Hat and our partnership with Red Hat. Being able to inject our data discovery machine learning into these multiple different locations. whether it be an AWS or an IBM cloud or a GCP or on prem. Being able to automate that discovery and pulling that single view of where is all my data, then allows the CIO to manage cost. They can do things like, one, I keep the data where it is, on premise or in my Oracle cloud or in my IBM cloud and connect the application that needs to feed off that data. And the way in which we do that is machine learning that learns over time as it recognizes different types of data, applies policies to classify that data and brings it all together with automation. >> Right, and one of the big themes that we've talked about this on earlier episodes is really simplification, really abstracting a lot of that heavy lifting away. So, we can focus on things Ajay, as you just mentioned. I mean, Fadzi, one of the big challenges that of course we all talk about is governance across these disparate data sets. I'm curious as your thoughts how does Red Hat really think about helping customers adhere to corporate edicts and compliance regulations? Which of course are particularly acute within financial services. >> Oh yeah, yes. So, for banks and payment providers like you've just mentioned there. Insurers and many other financial services firms, you know they have to adhere to a standard such as say a PCI DSS. And in Europe you've got the GDPR, which requires stringent tracking, reporting, documentation and, you know for them to, to remain in compliance. And the way we recommend our customers to address these challenges is by having an automation strategy, right. And that type of strategy can help you to improve the security on compliance of of your organization and reduce the risk out of the business, right. And we help organizations build security and compliance from the start with our consulting services, residencies. We also offer courses that help customers to understand how to address some of these challenges. And there's also, we help organizations build security into their applications with our open source middleware offerings and even using a platform like OpenShift, because it allows you to run legacy applications and also containerized applications in a unified platform. Right, and also that provides you with, you know with the automation and the tooling that you need to continuously monitor, manage and automate the systems for security and compliance purposes. >> Ajay, anything, any color you could add to this conversation? >> Yeah, I'm pleased Fadzi brought up OpenShift. I mean we're using OpenShift to be able to take that security application of controls to the data level and it's all about context. So, understanding what data is there, being able to assess it to say, who should have access to it, which application permission should be applied to it. That's a great combination of Red Hat and io/tahoe. >> Fadzi, what about multi-cloud? Doesn't that complicate the situation even further, maybe you could talk about some of the best practices to apply automation across not only hybrid cloud, but multi-cloud as well. >> Yeah, sure, yeah. So, the right automation solution, you know can be the difference between, you know cultivating an automated enterprise or automation carries. And some of the recommendations we give our clients is to look for an automation platform that can offer the first thing is complete support. So, that means have an automation solution that provides, you know, promotes IT availability and reliability with your platform so that, you can provide enterprise grade support, including security and testing integration and clear roadmaps. The second thing is vendor interoperability in that, you are going to be integrating multiple clouds. So, you're going to need a solution that can connect to multiple clouds seamlessly, right? And with that comes the challenge of maintainability. So, you're going to need to look into a automation solution that is easy to learn or has an easy learning curve. And then, the fourth idea that we tell our customers is scalability. In the hybrid cloud space, scale is the big, big deal here. And you need to deploy an automation solution that can span across the whole enterprise in a consistent manner, right. And then also that allows you finally to integrate the multiple data centers that you have. >> So, Ajay, I mean, this is a complicated situation for if a customer has to make sure things work on AWS or Azure or Google. They're going to spend all their time doing that. What can you add to really just simplify that multi-cloud and hybrid cloud equation. >> Yeah, I can give a few customer examples here. One being a manufacturer that we've worked with to drive that simplification. And the real bonuses for them has been a reduction in cost. We worked with them late last year to bring the cost spend down by $10 million in 2021. So, they could hit that reduced budget. And, what we brought to that was the ability to deploy using OpenShift templates into their different environments, whether it was on premise or in, as you mentioned, AWS. They had GCP as well for their marketing team and across those different platforms, being able to use a template, use prebuilt scripts to get up and running and catalog and discover that data within minutes. It takes away the legacy of having teams of people having to jump on workshop calls. And I know we're all on a lot of teams zoom calls. And in these current times. They're just simply using enough hours of the day to manually perform all of this. So, yeah, working with Red Hat, applying machine learning into those templates, those little recipes that we can put that automation to work regardless which location the data's in allows us to pull that unified view together. >> Great, thank you. Fadzi, I want to come back to you. So, the early days of cloud you're in the Big Apple, you know financial services really well. Cloud was like an evil word and within financial services, and obviously that's changed, it's evolved. We talk about the pandemic has even accelerated that. And when you really dug into it, when you talk to customers about their experiences with security in the cloud, it was not that it wasn't good, it was great, whatever, but it was different. And there's always this issue of skill, lack of skills and multiple tools, set up teams. are really overburdened. But in the cloud requires, you know, new thinking you've got the shared responsibility model. You've got to obviously have specific corporate, you know requirements and compliance. So, this is even more complicated when you introduce multiple clouds. So, what are the differences that you can share from your experiences running on a sort of either on prem or on a mono cloud or, you know, versus across clouds? What, do you suggest there? >> Sure, you know, because of these complexities that you have explained here mixed configurations and the inadequate change control are the top security threats. So, human error is what we want to avoid, because as you know, as your clouds grow with complexity then you put humans in the mix. Then the rate of errors is going to increase and that is going to expose you to security threats. So, this is where automation comes in, because automation will streamline and increase the consistency of your infrastructure management also application development and even security operations to improve in your protection compliance and change control. So, you want to consistently configure resources according to a pre-approved, you know, pre-approved policies and you want to proactively maintain them in a repeatable fashion over the whole life cycle. And then, you also want to rapidly the identify system that require patches and reconfiguration and automate that process of patching and reconfiguring. So that, you don't have humans doing this type of thing, And you want to be able to easily apply patches and change assistance settings according to a pre-defined base like I explained before, you know with the pre-approved policies. And also you want ease of auditing and troubleshooting, right. And from a Red Hat perspective we provide tools that enable you to do this. We have, for example a tool called Ansible that enables you to automate data center operations and security and also deployment of applications. And also OpenShift itself, it automates most of these things and obstruct the human beings from putting their fingers and causing, you know potentially introducing errors, right. Now, in looking into the new world of multiple clouds and so forth. The differences that we're seeing here between running a single cloud or on prem is three main areas, which is control, security and compliance, right. Control here, it means if you're on premise or you have one cloud you know, in most cases you have control over your data and your applications, especially if you're on prem. However, if you're in the public cloud, there is a difference that the ownership it is still yours, but your resources are running on somebody else's or the public clouds, EWS and so forth infrastructure. So, people that are going to do these need to really, especially banks and governments need to be aware of the regulatory constraints of running those applications in the public cloud. And we also help customers rationalize some of these choices. And also on security, you will see that if you're running on premises or in a single cloud you have more control, especially if you're on prem. You can control the sensitive information that you have. However, in the cloud, that's a different situation especially from personal information of employees and things like that. You need to be really careful with that. And also again, we help you rationalize some of those choices. And then, the last one is compliance. As well, you see that if you're running on prem on single cloud, regulations come into play again, right? And if you're running on prem, you have control over that. You can document everything, you have access to everything that you need, but if you're going to go to the public cloud again, you need to think about that. We have automation and we have standards that can help you you know, address some of these challenges. >> So, that's really strong insights, Fadzi. I mean, first of all Ansible has a lot of market momentum, you know, Red Hat's done a really good job with that acquisition. Your point about repeatability is critical, because you can't scale otherwise. And then, that idea you're putting forth about control, security and compliance. It's so true, I called it the shared responsibility model. And there was a lot of misunderstanding in the early days of cloud. I mean, yeah, maybe AWS is going to physically secure the you know, the S3, but in the bucket but we saw so many misconfigurations early on. And so it's key to have partners that really understand this stuff and can share the experiences of other clients. So, this all sounds great. Ajay, you're sharp, financial background. What about the economics? You know, our survey data shows that security it's at the top of the spending priority list, but budgets are stretched thin. I mean, especially when you think about the work from home pivot and all the areas that they had to, the holes that they had to fill there, whether it was laptops, you know, new security models, et cetera. So, how to organizations pay for this? What's the business case look like in terms of maybe reducing infrastructure costs, so I can pay it forward or there's a there's a risk reduction angle. What can you share there? >> Yeah, I mean, that perspective I'd like to give here is not being multi-cloud as multi copies of an application or data. When I think back 20 years, a lot of the work in financial services I was looking at was managing copies of data that were feeding different pipelines, different applications. Now, what we're seeing at io/tahoe a lot of the work that we're doing is reducing the number of copies of that data. So that, if I've got a product lifecycle management set of data, if I'm a manufacturer I'm just going to keep that at one location. But across my different clouds, I'm going to have best of breed applications developed in-house, third parties in collaboration with my supply chain, connecting securely to that single version of the truth. What I'm not going to do is to copy that data. So, a lot of what we're seeing now is that interconnectivity using applications built on Kubernetes that are decoupled from the data source. That allows us to reduce those copies of data within that you're gaining from a security capability and resilience, because you're not leaving yourself open to those multiple copies of data. And with that come cost of storage and a cost to compute. So, what we're saying is using multi-cloud to leverage the best of what each cloud platform has to offer. And that goes all the way to Snowflake and Heroku on a cloud managed databases too. >> Well and the people cost too as well. When you think about, yes, the copy creep. But then, you know, when something goes wrong a human has to come in and figure it out. You know, you brought up Snowflake, I get this vision of the data cloud, which is, you know data. I think we're going to be rethinking Ajay, data architectures in the coming decade where data stays where it belongs, it's distributed and you're providing access. Like you said, you're separating the data from the applications. Applications as we talked about with Fadzi, much more portable. So, it's really the last 10 years it'd be different than the next 10 years ago Ajay. >> Definitely, I think the people cost reduction is used. Gone are the days where you needed to have a dozen people governing, managing byte policies to data. A lot of that repetitive work, those tasks can be in part automated. We're seen examples in insurance where reduced teams of 15 people working in the back office, trying to apply security controls, compliance down to just a couple of people who are looking at the exceptions that don't fit. And that's really important because maybe two years ago the emphasis was on regulatory compliance of data with policies such as GDPR and CCPA. Last year, very much the economic effect to reduce head counts and enterprises running lean looking to reduce that cost. This year, we can see that already some of the more proactive companies are looking at initiatives, such as net zero emissions. How they use data to understand how they can become more, have a better social impact and using data to drive that. And that's across all of their operations and supply chain. So, those regulatory compliance issues that might have been external. We see similar patterns emerging for internal initiatives that are benefiting that environment, social impact, and of course costs. >> Great perspectives. Jeff Hammerbacher once famously said, the best minds of my generation are trying to get people to click on ads and Ajay those examples that you just gave of, you know social good and moving things forward are really critical. And I think that's where data is going to have the biggest societal impact. Okay guys, great conversation. Thanks so much for coming to the program. Really appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much, Dave. >> Keep it right there, for more insight and conversation around creating a resilient digital business model. You're watching theCube. (soft music)

>> Welcome back to Cube On Cloud. My name is Paul Gillin, enterprise editor at SiliconANGLE, and I'm pleased to now have as a guest on the show. Amit Zephyr, excuse me, general manager, vice president of business application platform at Google cloud. Amit is a formerly EVP and corporate officer for product development at Oracle cloud, 24 years at Oracle, and by my account a veteran of seven previous appearances on theCube. Amit welcome, thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having me Paul, it's always good to be back on theCube. >> Now you are... one of your big focus areas right now is on low-code and no-code. Of course this is a market that seems to be growing explosively. We often hear low code/no code used in the same breath as if they're the same thing. In fact, how are they different? >> I think it's a huge difference, now. I think industry started as low-code mode for many, many years. I mean, there were technologies, or tools provided for kind of helping developers be more productive that's what low-code was doing. It was not really meant, even though it was positioned for citizen developers it was very hard for a non technologist to really build application using low code. No-code is really meant as the word stands, no code. So there's really no coding, there's no understanding required about the underlying technology stack, or knowing how constructs works or how the data is laid out. All that stuff is kind of hidden and abstracted out from you. You are really focused as a citizen developer or a line of business user, in kind of delivering what your business application requirements are, and the business flows are, without having to know anything about writing any code. So you can build applications, you can build your interfaces and not have to learn anything about a single line of code. So that's really no-code and I think they getting to a phase now where the platforms have gotten much stronger and better where you can do very good productive applications without having to write a single line of code. So that's really the goal with no-code, and that's really the future in terms of how we will get more and more line of business users, or citizen developers to build applications they need for their day-to-day work. >> So when would you use one or the other? >> I think since low-code you would probably any developer has been around for eight, 10 years, if not longer where you extract out some of this stuff you can do some of the things in terms of not having to write some code where you have a lot of modules pre-built for you, and then when you want to mix a lot of changes, you go and drop into an ID and write some code or make some changes to a code. So you still get into that, and those are really focused towards semi-professional developers or IT in many cases or even developers who want to reduce the time required to start from, write and building an application. so it makes you much more productive. So if you are a really some semi-professional or you are a developer, you can either use use low-code to improve your productivity and not start from scratch. No-code is really used for folks who are really not interested in learning about coding, don't have any experience in it, and still want to be productive and build applications. And that's really when I would start with.. I would not give a low code to a citizen developer or a line of business user who has no experience with any coding. And that's not really.. It will only productive, They'll get frustrated and not deliver what you need, and not get anything out of it and many cases. >> Well, I've been around this industry long enough to remember fourth-generation languages and visual basic >> Yeah and the predecessors that never really caught on in a big way. I mean, they certainly had big audiences but, right now we're seeing 40, 50% annual market growth. Why is this market suddenly so hot? >> Yeah it's not a difference. I think that as you said, the 4G deal and I think a lot of those tools, even if you look at forms, and PLC and we kind of extracted out the technology and made it easier, but it was not very clear who they were targeting with that. They're still targeting the same developer audience. So the they never expanded the universe of users. It was same user base, just making it simpler for them. So, with those low-code tools, it never landed them getting more and more user base out of that. With no-code platforms, you are now expanding the user community. You are giving this capabilities to more and more users than a low-code tools could provide. That's why I think the growth is much faster. So if you find the right no-code platform, you will see a lot more adoption because you're solving a real problem, you are giving them a lot more capabilities and making the user productive without having to depend on IT in many cases, or having to wait for a lot of those big applications to be built for them even though they need it immediately. So I think that's why I think you're solving a real business problem and giving a lot more capabilities to users and no doubt the users love it and they start expanding the usage. It's very viral adoption in many cases after that. >> Historically the rap on these tools has been that, because they're typically interpreted, the performance is never going to be up to that of application written in C plus plus or something. Is that still the case? Is that a sort of structural weakness of no-code tools or is that changing? >> I think the early days probably not any more. I think if you look at what we are doing at Google Cloud for example, it's not interpreted, I mean, it does do a lot of heavy lifting underneath the covers, but, and you don't have to go into the coding part of it but it brings the whole Cloud platform with it, right? So the scalability, the security the performance, availability all that stuff is built into the platform. So it's not a tool, it's a platform. I think that's thing, the big difference. Most of the early days you will see a lot of these things as a tool, which you can use it, and there's nothing underneath the covers the run kinds are very weak, there's really not the full Cloud platform provided with it, but I think the way we seeing it now and over the last many years, what we have done and what we continue to do, is to bring the power of the Cloud platform with it. So you're not missing out on the scalability, the performance, security, even the compliance and governance is built in. So IT is part of the process even though they might not build an application themselves. And that's where I think the barriers have been lifted. And again, it's not a solution for everything also. I'm not saying that this would go in, if you want to build a full end to end e-commerce site for example, I would not use a no-code platform for it, because you're going to do a lot more heavy lifting, you might want to integrate with a lot of custom stuff, you might build a custom experience. All that kind of stuff might not be that doable, but there are a lot of use cases now, which you can deliver with a platform like what we've been building at Google cloud. >> So, talk about what you're doing at Google cloud. Do you have a play in both the low-code and the no-code market? Do you favor one over the other? >> Yeah no I think we've employed technologies and services across the gamut of different requirements, right? I mean, our goal is not that we will only address one market needs and we'll ignore the rest of the things required for our developer community. So as you know, Google cloud has been very focused for many years delivering capabilities for developer community. With technology we deliver the Kubernetes and containers tend to flow for AI, compute storage all that kind of stuff is really developer centric. We have a lot of developers build applications on it writing code. They have abstracted some of this stuff and provide a lot of low-code technologies like Firebase for building mobile apps, the millions of apps mobile apps built by developers using Firebase today that it does abstract out the technology. And then you don't have to do a lot of heavy lifting yourself. So we do provide a lot of low-code tooling as well. And now, as we see the need for no-code especially kind of empowering the line of business user and citizen developers, we acquired a company called AppSheet, early 2020, and integrated that as part of our Google Cloud Platform as well as the workspace. So the G suite, the Gmail, all the technology all the services we provide for productivity and collaboration. And allowed users to now extend that collaboration capabilities by adding a workflow, and adding another app experience as needed for a particular business user needs. So that's how we looking at it like making sure that we can deliver a platform for spectrum of different use cases. And get that flexibility for the end user in terms of whatever they need to do, we should be able to provide as part of a Google Cloud Platform now. >> So as far as Google Cloud's positioning, I mean you're number three in the market you're growing but not really changing the distance between you and Microsoft for what public information we've been able to see in AWS. In Microsoft you have a company that has a long history with developers and of development tools and really as is that as a core strength do you see your low-code/no-code strategy as being a way to make up ground on them? >> Yeah, I think that the way to look at the market, and again I know the industry analyst and the market loves to do rankings in this world but, I think the Cloud business is probably big enough for a lot of vendors. I mean, this is growing as the amazing pace as you know. And it is becoming, it's a large investment. It takes time for a lot of the vendors to deliver everything they need to. But today, if you look at a lot of the net new growth and lot of net new customers, we seeing a huge percentage of share coming to Google Cloud, right? And we continue to announce some of the public things and the results will come out again every quarter. And we tried to break out the Cloud segment in the Google results more regularly so that people get an idea of how well they're doing in the Cloud business. So we are very comfortable where we are in terms of our growth in terms of our adoption, as well as in terms of how we delivering all the value our customers require, right? So, note out one of the parts we want to do is make sure that we have a end to end offering for all of the different use cases customers require and no-code is one of the parts we want to deliver for our customers as well. We've done very good capabilities and our data analytics. We do a lot of work around AIML, industry solutions. You look at the adoption we've had around a lot of those platform and Hybrid and MultiCloud. It's been growing very, very fast. And this one more additional things we are going to do, so that we can deliver what our customers are asking for. We're not too worried about the rankings we are worried about really making sure we're delivering the value to our customers. And we're seeing that it doesn't end very well. And if you look at the numbers now, I mean the growth rate is higher than any other Cloud vendor as well as be seeing a huge amount of demand been on Google Cloud as well. >> Well, not to belabor the point, but naturally your growth rate is going to be higher if you're a third of the market, I mean, how important is it to you to break into, to surpass the number two? How important are rankings within the Google Cloud team, or are you focused mainly more on growth and just consistency? >> No, I don't think again, I'm not worried about... we are not focused on ranking, or any of that stuff typically, I think we were worried about making sure customers are satisfied, and the adding more and more customers. So if you look at the volume of customers we're signing up, a lot of the large deals they didn't... do we need to look at the announcement we'd made over the last year, has been tremendous momentum around that. Lot of large banks, lot of large telecommunication companies large enterprises, name them. I think all of them are starting to kind of pick up Google Cloud. So if you follow that, I think that's really what is satisfying for us. And the results are starting to show that growth and the momentum. So we can't cover the gap we had in the previous... Because Google Cloud started late in this market. So if Cloud business grows by accumulating revenue over many years. So I cant look at the history, I'm looking at the future really. And if you look at the growth for the new business and the percentage of the net new business, we're doing better than pretty much any other vendor out there. >> And you said you were stepping up your reference to disclose those numbers. Was that what I heard you say? >> I think every quarter you're seeing that, I think we started announcing our revenue and growth numbers, and we started to do a lot of reporting about our Cloud business and that you will start, you see more and more and more of that regularly from Google now. >> Let's get back just briefly to the low-code/no-code discussion. A lot of companies looking at how to roll this out right now. You've got some big governance issues involved here. If you have a lot of citizen developers you also have the potential for chaos. What advice are you giving customers using your tools for how they should organize around citizen development? >> Yeah, no, I think no doubt. If this needs to be adopted by enterprise you can't make it a completely rogue or a completely shadow based development capabilities. So part of our no-code platform, one thing you want to make sure that this is enterprise ready, it has many aspects required for that. One is compliance making sure you have all the regulatory things delivered for data, privacy, security. Second is governance. A lot of the IT departments want to make sure who's using this platform? How are they accessing it? Are they getting the right security privileges associated with that? Are we giving them the right permissions? So in our a no-code platform we adding all this compliance, and governance regulatory stuff as part of our underlying platform, even though the end user might not have to worry about it the person who's building applications shouldn't have to think about it, but we do want to give controls to IT as needed by the large enterprises. So that is a big part of how we deliver this. We're not thinking about this as like go and build it, and then we write it once you have to do things for your enterprise, and then get it to do it again and again. Because then it just a waste of time and you're not getting the benefit of the platform at all. So we bringing those things together where we have a very easy to use, very powerful no-code platform with the enterprise compliance as well as governance built into that platform as well. And that is really resonating. If you look at a lot of the customers we're working with they do require that and they get excited about it as well as the democratizing of all of their line of business users. They're very happy that they're getting that kind of a platform, which they can scale from and deliver the productivity required. >> Certainly going to make businesses look very different in the future. And speaking of futures, It is January it's time to do predictions. What are your predictions (laughs) for the Cloud for this year? >> No I think that I mean no doubt cloud has become the center for pretty much every company now, I think the digital transformation especially with COVID, has greatly accelerated. We have seen many customers now who are thinking of pieces of their platform, pieces of their workflow or business to be digitized. Now that's trying to do it for all of it. So the one part which we see for this year is the need for more and more of efficiency in the industry are verticalized business workflows. It's not just about providing a plain vanilla Cloud Platform but also providing a lot more content and business details and business workflows by industry segments. So we've been doing a lot of work and we expect a huge amount of that to be becoming more and more core part of our offering as well as what customers are asking for. Where you might need things around say know your customer kind of workflow for financial services, Telehealth for healthcare. I mean, every industry has specific things like demand management and demand forecasting for retail but making that as part of a Cloud service not just saying, hey, I have compute storage network. I have some kind of a platform go add it and go and build what you want for your industry needs, We want to provide them that all those kinds of business processes and content for those industries as well. So we identified six, seven, industries. We see that as a kind of the driving factor for our Cloud growth, as well as helping our customers be much more productive as well as seeing the value of Cloud being much more realistic for them versus just a replacement for the data center. I think that's really the big shift in 21 I think. And I think that will make a big difference for all the companies who are really trying to digitize and be in forefront of the needs as their customers require in the future. >> Of course all of this accelerated by the pandemic and all of the specialized needs that have emerged from that. >> And I think the bond, which is important as well, I think as you know, I mean, everybody talks about AIML as like a big thing. No doubt AIML is an important element of it, but if you make that usable and powerful through this kind of workflows and business processes, as well as particular business applications, I think you see a lot more interest in using it than just a plain manila framework or just technology for the technology sake. So we try to bring the power of AI and ML into this business and industry applications, where we have a lot of good technologists at Google who knows how to use all these things. You wanted to bring that into those applications and platforms >> Exciting times ahead. Amit Zavery thank you so much for joining us. You look just as comfortable as I would expect someone to be who is doing his eighth Cube interview. Thanks for joining us. >> (laughing) Thanks for having me, Paul. >> That's it for this segment of Cube On Cloud, I'm Paul Gillin, stay tuned. (soft music)

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE presenting Enterprise Digital Resilience on Hybrid and multicloud brought to you by io/tahoe >> Hello everyone, and welcome to our continuing series covering data automation brought to you by io/tahoe. Today we're going to look at how to ensure enterprise resilience for hybrid and multicloud, let's welcome in Ajay Vohora who's the CEO of io/tahoe Ajay, always good to see you again, thanks for coming on. >> Great to be back David, pleasure. >> And he's joined by Fadzi Ushewokunze, who is a global principal architect for financial services, the vertical of financial services at Red Hat. He's got deep experiences in that sector. Welcome Fadzi, good to see you. >> Thank you very much. Happy to be here. >> Fadzi, let's start with you. Look, there are a lot of views on cloud and what it is. I wonder if you could explain to us how you think about what is a hybrid cloud and how it works. >> Sure, Yeah. So, a hybrid cloud is an IT architecture that incorporates some degree of workload portability, orchestration and management across multiple clouds. Those clouds could be private clouds or public clouds or even your own data centers. And how does it all work? It's all about secure interconnectivity and on demand allocation of resources across clouds. And separate clouds can become hybrid when you're seamlessly interconnected. And it is that interconnectivity that allows the workloads to be moved and how management can be unified and orchestration can work. And how well you have these interconnections has a direct impact of how well your hybrid cloud will work. >> Okay, so well Fadzi, staying with you for a minute. So, in the early days of cloud that term private cloud was thrown around a lot. But it often just meant virtualization of an on-prem system and a network connection to the public cloud. Let's bring it forward. What, in your view does a modern hybrid cloud architecture look like? >> Sure, so, for modern hybrid clouds we see that teams or organizations need to focus on the portability of applications across clouds. That's very important, right. And when organizations build applications they need to build and deploy these applications as a small collections of independently loosely coupled services. And then have those things run on the same operating system, which means in other words, running it all Linux everywhere and building cloud native applications and being able to manage it and orchestrate these applications with platforms like Kubernetes or Red Hat OpenShift, for example. >> Okay, so, Fadzi that's definitely different from building a monolithic application that's fossilized and doesn't move. So, what are the challenges for customers, you know, to get to that modern cloud is as you've just described it as it skillsets, is it the ability to leverage things like containers? What's your View there? >> So, I mean, from what we've seen around the industry especially around financial services where I spend most of my time. We see that the first thing that we see is management, right. Now, because you have all these clouds, you know, all these applications. You have a massive array of connections, of interconnections. You also have massive array of integrations portability and resource allocation as well. And then orchestrating all those different moving pieces things like storage networks. Those are really difficult to manage, right? So, management is the first challenge. The second one is workload placement. Where do you place this cloud? How do you place these cloud native operations? Do you, what do you keep on site on prem and what do you put in the cloud? That is the other challenge. The major one, the third one is security. Security now becomes the key challenge and concern for most customers. And we're going to talk about how to address that. >> Yeah, we're definitely going to dig into that. Let's bring Ajay into the conversation. Ajay, you know, you and I have talked about this in the past. One of the big problems that virtually every company face is data fragmentation. Talk a little bit about how io/tahoe, unifies data across both traditional systems, legacy systems and it connects to these modern IT environments. >> Yeah, sure Dave. I mean, a Fadzi just nailed it there. It used to be about data, the volume of data and the different types of data, but as applications become more connected and interconnected the location of that data really matters. How we serve that data up to those apps. So, working with Red Hat and our partnership with Red Hat. Being able to inject our data discovery machine learning into these multiple different locations. whether it be an AWS or an IBM cloud or a GCP or on prem. Being able to automate that discovery and pulling that single view of where is all my data, then allows the CIO to manage cost. They can do things like, one, I keep the data where it is, on premise or in my Oracle cloud or in my IBM cloud and connect the application that needs to feed off that data. And the way in which we do that is machine learning that learns over time as it recognizes different types of data, applies policies to classify that data and brings it all together with automation. >> Right, and one of the big themes that we've talked about this on earlier episodes is really simplification, really abstracting a lot of that heavy lifting away. So, we can focus on things Ajay, as you just mentioned. I mean, Fadzi, one of the big challenges that of course we all talk about is governance across these disparate data sets. I'm curious as your thoughts how does Red Hat really think about helping customers adhere to corporate edicts and compliance regulations? Which of course are particularly acute within financial services. >> Oh yeah, yes. So, for banks and payment providers like you've just mentioned there. Insurers and many other financial services firms, you know they have to adhere to a standard such as say a PCI DSS. And in Europe you've got the GDPR, which requires stringent tracking, reporting, documentation and, you know for them to, to remain in compliance. And the way we recommend our customers to address these challenges is by having an automation strategy, right. And that type of strategy can help you to improve the security on compliance of of your organization and reduce the risk out of the business, right. And we help organizations build security and compliance from the start with our consulting services, residencies. We also offer courses that help customers to understand how to address some of these challenges. And there's also, we help organizations build security into their applications with our open source middleware offerings and even using a platform like OpenShift, because it allows you to run legacy applications and also containerized applications in a unified platform. Right, and also that provides you with, you know with the automation and the tooling that you need to continuously monitor, manage and automate the systems for security and compliance purposes. >> Ajay, anything, any color you could add to this conversation? >> Yeah, I'm pleased Fadzi brought up OpenShift. I mean we're using OpenShift to be able to take that security application of controls to the data level and it's all about context. So, understanding what data is there, being able to assess it to say, who should have access to it, which application permission should be applied to it. That's a great combination of Red Hat and io/tahoe. >> Fadzi, what about multi-cloud? Doesn't that complicate the situation even further, maybe you could talk about some of the best practices to apply automation across not only hybrid cloud, but multi-cloud as well. >> Yeah, sure, yeah. So, the right automation solution, you know can be the difference between, you know cultivating an automated enterprise or automation carries. And some of the recommendations we give our clients is to look for an automation platform that can offer the first thing is complete support. So, that means have an automation solution that provides, you know, promotes IT availability and reliability with your platform so that, you can provide enterprise grade support, including security and testing integration and clear roadmaps. The second thing is vendor interoperability in that, you are going to be integrating multiple clouds. So, you're going to need a solution that can connect to multiple clouds seamlessly, right? And with that comes the challenge of maintainability. So, you're going to need to look into a automation solution that is easy to learn or has an easy learning curve. And then, the fourth idea that we tell our customers is scalability. In the hybrid cloud space, scale is the big, big deal here. And you need to deploy an automation solution that can span across the whole enterprise in a consistent manner, right. And then also that allows you finally to integrate the multiple data centers that you have. >> So, Ajay, I mean, this is a complicated situation for if a customer has to make sure things work on AWS or Azure or Google. They're going to spend all their time doing that. What can you add to really just simplify that multi-cloud and hybrid cloud equation. >> Yeah, I can give a few customer examples here. One being a manufacturer that we've worked with to drive that simplification. And the real bonuses for them has been a reduction in cost. We worked with them late last year to bring the cost spend down by $10 million in 2021. So, they could hit that reduced budget. And, what we brought to that was the ability to deploy using OpenShift templates into their different environments, whether it was on premise or in, as you mentioned, AWS. They had GCP as well for their marketing team and across those different platforms, being able to use a template, use prebuilt scripts to get up and running and catalog and discover that data within minutes. It takes away the legacy of having teams of people having to jump on workshop calls. And I know we're all on a lot of teams zoom calls. And in these current times. They're just simply using enough hours of the day to manually perform all of this. So, yeah, working with Red Hat, applying machine learning into those templates, those little recipes that we can put that automation to work regardless which location the data's in allows us to pull that unified view together. >> Great, thank you. Fadzi, I want to come back to you. So, the early days of cloud you're in the Big Apple, you know financial services really well. Cloud was like an evil word and within financial services, and obviously that's changed, it's evolved. We talk about the pandemic has even accelerated that. And when you really dug into it, when you talk to customers about their experiences with security in the cloud, it was not that it wasn't good, it was great, whatever, but it was different. And there's always this issue of skill, lack of skills and multiple tools, set up teams. are really overburdened. But in the cloud requires, you know, new thinking you've got the shared responsibility model. You've got to obviously have specific corporate, you know requirements and compliance. So, this is even more complicated when you introduce multiple clouds. So, what are the differences that you can share from your experiences running on a sort of either on prem or on a mono cloud or, you know, versus across clouds? What, do you suggest there? >> Sure, you know, because of these complexities that you have explained here mixed configurations and the inadequate change control are the top security threats. So, human error is what we want to avoid, because as you know, as your clouds grow with complexity then you put humans in the mix. Then the rate of errors is going to increase and that is going to expose you to security threats. So, this is where automation comes in, because automation will streamline and increase the consistency of your infrastructure management also application development and even security operations to improve in your protection compliance and change control. So, you want to consistently configure resources according to a pre-approved, you know, pre-approved policies and you want to proactively maintain them in a repeatable fashion over the whole life cycle. And then, you also want to rapidly the identify system that require patches and reconfiguration and automate that process of patching and reconfiguring. So that, you don't have humans doing this type of thing, And you want to be able to easily apply patches and change assistance settings according to a pre-defined base like I explained before, you know with the pre-approved policies. And also you want ease of auditing and troubleshooting, right. And from a Red Hat perspective we provide tools that enable you to do this. We have, for example a tool called Ansible that enables you to automate data center operations and security and also deployment of applications. And also OpenShift itself, it automates most of these things and obstruct the human beings from putting their fingers and causing, you know potentially introducing errors, right. Now, in looking into the new world of multiple clouds and so forth. The differences that we're seeing here between running a single cloud or on prem is three main areas, which is control, security and compliance, right. Control here, it means if you're on premise or you have one cloud you know, in most cases you have control over your data and your applications, especially if you're on prem. However, if you're in the public cloud, there is a difference that the ownership it is still yours, but your resources are running on somebody else's or the public clouds, EWS and so forth infrastructure. So, people that are going to do these need to really, especially banks and governments need to be aware of the regulatory constraints of running those applications in the public cloud. And we also help customers rationalize some of these choices. And also on security, you will see that if you're running on premises or in a single cloud you have more control, especially if you're on prem. You can control the sensitive information that you have. However, in the cloud, that's a different situation especially from personal information of employees and things like that. You need to be really careful with that. And also again, we help you rationalize some of those choices. And then, the last one is compliance. As well, you see that if you're running on prem on single cloud, regulations come into play again, right? And if you're running on prem, you have control over that. You can document everything, you have access to everything that you need, but if you're going to go to the public cloud again, you need to think about that. We have automation and we have standards that can help you you know, address some of these challenges. >> So, that's really strong insights, Fadzi. I mean, first of all Ansible has a lot of market momentum, you know, Red Hat's done a really good job with that acquisition. Your point about repeatability is critical, because you can't scale otherwise. And then, that idea you're putting forth about control, security and compliance. It's so true, I called it the shared responsibility model. And there was a lot of misunderstanding in the early days of cloud. I mean, yeah, maybe AWS is going to physically secure the you know, the S3, but in the bucket but we saw so many misconfigurations early on. And so it's key to have partners that really understand this stuff and can share the experiences of other clients. So, this all sounds great. Ajay, you're sharp, financial background. What about the economics? You know, our survey data shows that security it's at the top of the spending priority list, but budgets are stretched thin. I mean, especially when you think about the work from home pivot and all the areas that they had to, the holes that they had to fill there, whether it was laptops, you know, new security models, et cetera. So, how to organizations pay for this? What's the business case look like in terms of maybe reducing infrastructure costs, so I can pay it forward or there's a there's a risk reduction angle. What can you share there? >> Yeah, I mean, that perspective I'd like to give here is not being multi-cloud as multi copies of an application or data. When I think back 20 years, a lot of the work in financial services I was looking at was managing copies of data that were feeding different pipelines, different applications. Now, what we're seeing at io/tahoe a lot of the work that we're doing is reducing the number of copies of that data. So that, if I've got a product lifecycle management set of data, if I'm a manufacturer I'm just going to keep that at one location. But across my different clouds, I'm going to have best of breed applications developed in-house, third parties in collaboration with my supply chain, connecting securely to that single version of the truth. What I'm not going to do is to copy that data. So, a lot of what we're seeing now is that interconnectivity using applications built on Kubernetes that are decoupled from the data source. That allows us to reduce those copies of data within that you're gaining from a security capability and resilience, because you're not leaving yourself open to those multiple copies of data. And with that come cost of storage and a cost to compute. So, what we're saying is using multi-cloud to leverage the best of what each cloud platform has to offer. And that goes all the way to Snowflake and Heroku on a cloud managed databases too. >> Well and the people cost too as well. When you think about, yes, the copy creep. But then, you know, when something goes wrong a human has to come in and figure it out. You know, you brought up Snowflake, I get this vision of the data cloud, which is, you know data. I think we're going to be rethinking Ajay, data architectures in the coming decade where data stays where it belongs, it's distributed and you're providing access. Like you said, you're separating the data from the applications. Applications as we talked about with Fadzi, much more portable. So, it's really the last 10 years it'd be different than the next 10 years ago Ajay. >> Definitely, I think the people cost reduction is used. Gone are the days where you needed to have a dozen people governing, managing byte policies to data. A lot of that repetitive work, those tasks can be in part automated. We're seen examples in insurance where reduced teams of 15 people working in the back office, trying to apply security controls, compliance down to just a couple of people who are looking at the exceptions that don't fit. And that's really important because maybe two years ago the emphasis was on regulatory compliance of data with policies such as GDPR and CCPA. Last year, very much the economic effect to reduce head counts and enterprises running lean looking to reduce that cost. This year, we can see that already some of the more proactive companies are looking at initiatives, such as net zero emissions. How they use data to understand how they can become more, have a better social impact and using data to drive that. And that's across all of their operations and supply chain. So, those regulatory compliance issues that might have been external. We see similar patterns emerging for internal initiatives that are benefiting that environment, social impact, and of course costs. >> Great perspectives. Jeff Hammerbacher once famously said, the best minds of my generation are trying to get people to click on ads and Ajay those examples that you just gave of, you know social good and moving things forward are really critical. And I think that's where data is going to have the biggest societal impact. Okay guys, great conversation. Thanks so much for coming to the program. Really appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much, Dave. >> Keep it right there, for more insight and conversation around creating a resilient digital business model. You're watching theCube. (soft music)

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE presenting Enterprise Digital Resilience on Hybrid and multicloud brought to you by io/tahoe >> Hello everyone, and welcome to our continuing series covering data automation brought to you by io/tahoe. Today we're going to look at how to ensure enterprise resilience for hybrid and multicloud, let's welcome in Ajay Vohora who's the CEO of io/tahoe Ajay, always good to see you again, thanks for coming on. >> Great to be back David, pleasure. >> And he's joined by Fadzi Ushewokunze, who is a global principal architect for financial services, the vertical of financial services at Red Hat. He's got deep experiences in that sector. Welcome Fadzi, good to see you. >> Thank you very much. Happy to be here. >> Fadzi, let's start with you. Look, there are a lot of views on cloud and what it is. I wonder if you could explain to us how you think about what is a hybrid cloud and how it works. >> Sure, Yeah. So, a hybrid cloud is an IT architecture that incorporates some degree of workload portability, orchestration and management across multiple clouds. Those clouds could be private clouds or public clouds or even your own data centers. And how does it all work? It's all about secure interconnectivity and on demand allocation of resources across clouds. And separate clouds can become hybrid when you're seamlessly interconnected. And it is that interconnectivity that allows the workloads to be moved and how management can be unified and orchestration can work. And how well you have these interconnections has a direct impact of how well your hybrid cloud will work. >> Okay, so well Fadzi, staying with you for a minute. So, in the early days of cloud that term private cloud was thrown around a lot. But it often just meant virtualization of an on-prem system and a network connection to the public cloud. Let's bring it forward. What, in your view does a modern hybrid cloud architecture look like? >> Sure, so, for modern hybrid clouds we see that teams or organizations need to focus on the portability of applications across clouds. That's very important, right. And when organizations build applications they need to build and deploy these applications as a small collections of independently loosely coupled services. And then have those things run on the same operating system, which means in other words, running it all Linux everywhere and building cloud native applications and being able to manage it and orchestrate these applications with platforms like Kubernetes or Red Hat OpenShift, for example. >> Okay, so, Fadzi that's definitely different from building a monolithic application that's fossilized and doesn't move. So, what are the challenges for customers, you know, to get to that modern cloud is as you've just described it as it skillsets, is it the ability to leverage things like containers? What's your View there? >> So, I mean, from what we've seen around the industry especially around financial services where I spend most of my time. We see that the first thing that we see is management, right. Now, because you have all these clouds, you know, all these applications. You have a massive array of connections, of interconnections. You also have massive array of integrations portability and resource allocation as well. And then orchestrating all those different moving pieces things like storage networks. Those are really difficult to manage, right? So, management is the first challenge. The second one is workload placement. Where do you place this cloud? How do you place these cloud native operations? Do you, what do you keep on site on prem and what do you put in the cloud? That is the other challenge. The major one, the third one is security. Security now becomes the key challenge and concern for most customers. And we're going to talk about how to address that. >> Yeah, we're definitely going to dig into that. Let's bring Ajay into the conversation. Ajay, you know, you and I have talked about this in the past. One of the big problems that virtually every company face is data fragmentation. Talk a little bit about how io/tahoe, unifies data across both traditional systems, legacy systems and it connects to these modern IT environments. >> Yeah, sure Dave. I mean, a Fadzi just nailed it there. It used to be about data, the volume of data and the different types of data, but as applications become more connected and interconnected the location of that data really matters. How we serve that data up to those apps. So, working with Red Hat and our partnership with Red Hat. Being able to inject our data discovery machine learning into these multiple different locations. whether it be an AWS or an IBM cloud or a GCP or on prem. Being able to automate that discovery and pulling that single view of where is all my data, then allows the CIO to manage cost. They can do things like, one, I keep the data where it is, on premise or in my Oracle cloud or in my IBM cloud and connect the application that needs to feed off that data. And the way in which we do that is machine learning that learns over time as it recognizes different types of data, applies policies to classify that data and brings it all together with automation. >> Right, and one of the big themes that we've talked about this on earlier episodes is really simplification, really abstracting a lot of that heavy lifting away. So, we can focus on things Ajay, as you just mentioned. I mean, Fadzi, one of the big challenges that of course we all talk about is governance across these disparate data sets. I'm curious as your thoughts how does Red Hat really think about helping customers adhere to corporate edicts and compliance regulations? Which of course are particularly acute within financial services. >> Oh yeah, yes. So, for banks and payment providers like you've just mentioned there. Insurers and many other financial services firms, you know they have to adhere to a standard such as say a PCI DSS. And in Europe you've got the GDPR, which requires stringent tracking, reporting, documentation and, you know for them to, to remain in compliance. And the way we recommend our customers to address these challenges is by having an automation strategy, right. And that type of strategy can help you to improve the security on compliance of of your organization and reduce the risk out of the business, right. And we help organizations build security and compliance from the start with our consulting services, residencies. We also offer courses that help customers to understand how to address some of these challenges. And there's also, we help organizations build security into their applications with our open source middleware offerings and even using a platform like OpenShift, because it allows you to run legacy applications and also containerized applications in a unified platform. Right, and also that provides you with, you know with the automation and the tooling that you need to continuously monitor, manage and automate the systems for security and compliance purposes. >> Ajay, anything, any color you could add to this conversation? >> Yeah, I'm pleased Fadzi brought up OpenShift. I mean we're using OpenShift to be able to take that security application of controls to the data level and it's all about context. So, understanding what data is there, being able to assess it to say, who should have access to it, which application permission should be applied to it. That's a great combination of Red Hat and io/tahoe. >> Fadzi, what about multi-cloud? Doesn't that complicate the situation even further, maybe you could talk about some of the best practices to apply automation across not only hybrid cloud, but multi-cloud as well. >> Yeah, sure, yeah. So, the right automation solution, you know can be the difference between, you know cultivating an automated enterprise or automation carries. And some of the recommendations we give our clients is to look for an automation platform that can offer the first thing is complete support. So, that means have an automation solution that provides, you know, promotes IT availability and reliability with your platform so that, you can provide enterprise grade support, including security and testing integration and clear roadmaps. The second thing is vendor interoperability in that, you are going to be integrating multiple clouds. So, you're going to need a solution that can connect to multiple clouds seamlessly, right? And with that comes the challenge of maintainability. So, you're going to need to look into a automation solution that is easy to learn or has an easy learning curve. And then, the fourth idea that we tell our customers is scalability. In the hybrid cloud space, scale is the big, big deal here. And you need to deploy an automation solution that can span across the whole enterprise in a consistent manner, right. And then also that allows you finally to integrate the multiple data centers that you have. >> So, Ajay, I mean, this is a complicated situation for if a customer has to make sure things work on AWS or Azure or Google. They're going to spend all their time doing that. What can you add to really just simplify that multi-cloud and hybrid cloud equation. >> Yeah, I can give a few customer examples here. One being a manufacturer that we've worked with to drive that simplification. And the real bonuses for them has been a reduction in cost. We worked with them late last year to bring the cost spend down by $10 million in 2021. So, they could hit that reduced budget. And, what we brought to that was the ability to deploy using OpenShift templates into their different environments, whether it was on premise or in, as you mentioned, AWS. They had GCP as well for their marketing team and across those different platforms, being able to use a template, use prebuilt scripts to get up and running and catalog and discover that data within minutes. It takes away the legacy of having teams of people having to jump on workshop calls. And I know we're all on a lot of teams zoom calls. And in these current times. They're just simply using enough hours of the day to manually perform all of this. So, yeah, working with Red Hat, applying machine learning into those templates, those little recipes that we can put that automation to work regardless which location the data's in allows us to pull that unified view together. >> Great, thank you. Fadzi, I want to come back to you. So, the early days of cloud you're in the Big Apple, you know financial services really well. Cloud was like an evil word and within financial services, and obviously that's changed, it's evolved. We talk about the pandemic has even accelerated that. And when you really dug into it, when you talk to customers about their experiences with security in the cloud, it was not that it wasn't good, it was great, whatever, but it was different. And there's always this issue of skill, lack of skills and multiple tools, set up teams. are really overburdened. But in the cloud requires, you know, new thinking you've got the shared responsibility model. You've got to obviously have specific corporate, you know requirements and compliance. So, this is even more complicated when you introduce multiple clouds. So, what are the differences that you can share from your experiences running on a sort of either on prem or on a mono cloud or, you know, versus across clouds? What, do you suggest there? >> Sure, you know, because of these complexities that you have explained here mixed configurations and the inadequate change control are the top security threats. So, human error is what we want to avoid, because as you know, as your clouds grow with complexity then you put humans in the mix. Then the rate of errors is going to increase and that is going to expose you to security threats. So, this is where automation comes in, because automation will streamline and increase the consistency of your infrastructure management also application development and even security operations to improve in your protection compliance and change control. So, you want to consistently configure resources according to a pre-approved, you know, pre-approved policies and you want to proactively maintain them in a repeatable fashion over the whole life cycle. And then, you also want to rapidly the identify system that require patches and reconfiguration and automate that process of patching and reconfiguring. So that, you don't have humans doing this type of thing, And you want to be able to easily apply patches and change assistance settings according to a pre-defined base like I explained before, you know with the pre-approved policies. And also you want ease of auditing and troubleshooting, right. And from a Red Hat perspective we provide tools that enable you to do this. We have, for example a tool called Ansible that enables you to automate data center operations and security and also deployment of applications. And also OpenShift itself, it automates most of these things and obstruct the human beings from putting their fingers and causing, you know potentially introducing errors, right. Now, in looking into the new world of multiple clouds and so forth. The differences that we're seeing here between running a single cloud or on prem is three main areas, which is control, security and compliance, right. Control here, it means if you're on premise or you have one cloud you know, in most cases you have control over your data and your applications, especially if you're on prem. However, if you're in the public cloud, there is a difference that the ownership it is still yours, but your resources are running on somebody else's or the public clouds, EWS and so forth infrastructure. So, people that are going to do these need to really, especially banks and governments need to be aware of the regulatory constraints of running those applications in the public cloud. And we also help customers rationalize some of these choices. And also on security, you will see that if you're running on premises or in a single cloud you have more control, especially if you're on prem. You can control the sensitive information that you have. However, in the cloud, that's a different situation especially from personal information of employees and things like that. You need to be really careful with that. And also again, we help you rationalize some of those choices. And then, the last one is compliance. As well, you see that if you're running on prem on single cloud, regulations come into play again, right? And if you're running on prem, you have control over that. You can document everything, you have access to everything that you need, but if you're going to go to the public cloud again, you need to think about that. We have automation and we have standards that can help you you know, address some of these challenges. >> So, that's really strong insights, Fadzi. I mean, first of all Ansible has a lot of market momentum, you know, Red Hat's done a really good job with that acquisition. Your point about repeatability is critical, because you can't scale otherwise. And then, that idea you're putting forth about control, security and compliance. It's so true, I called it the shared responsibility model. And there was a lot of misunderstanding in the early days of cloud. I mean, yeah, maybe AWS is going to physically secure the you know, the S3, but in the bucket but we saw so many misconfigurations early on. And so it's key to have partners that really understand this stuff and can share the experiences of other clients. So, this all sounds great. Ajay, you're sharp, financial background. What about the economics? You know, our survey data shows that security it's at the top of the spending priority list, but budgets are stretched thin. I mean, especially when you think about the work from home pivot and all the areas that they had to, the holes that they had to fill there, whether it was laptops, you know, new security models, et cetera. So, how to organizations pay for this? What's the business case look like in terms of maybe reducing infrastructure costs, so I can pay it forward or there's a there's a risk reduction angle. What can you share there? >> Yeah, I mean, that perspective I'd like to give here is not being multi-cloud as multi copies of an application or data. When I think back 20 years, a lot of the work in financial services I was looking at was managing copies of data that were feeding different pipelines, different applications. Now, what we're seeing at io/tahoe a lot of the work that we're doing is reducing the number of copies of that data. So that, if I've got a product lifecycle management set of data, if I'm a manufacturer I'm just going to keep that at one location. But across my different clouds, I'm going to have best of breed applications developed in-house, third parties in collaboration with my supply chain, connecting securely to that single version of the truth. What I'm not going to do is to copy that data. So, a lot of what we're seeing now is that interconnectivity using applications built on Kubernetes that are decoupled from the data source. That allows us to reduce those copies of data within that you're gaining from a security capability and resilience, because you're not leaving yourself open to those multiple copies of data. And with that come cost of storage and a cost to compute. So, what we're saying is using multi-cloud to leverage the best of what each cloud platform has to offer. And that goes all the way to Snowflake and Heroku on a cloud managed databases too. >> Well and the people cost too as well. When you think about, yes, the copy creep. But then, you know, when something goes wrong a human has to come in and figure it out. You know, you brought up Snowflake, I get this vision of the data cloud, which is, you know data. I think we're going to be rethinking Ajay, data architectures in the coming decade where data stays where it belongs, it's distributed and you're providing access. Like you said, you're separating the data from the applications. Applications as we talked about with Fadzi, much more portable. So, it's really the last 10 years it'd be different than the next 10 years ago Ajay. >> Definitely, I think the people cost reduction is used. Gone are the days where you needed to have a dozen people governing, managing byte policies to data. A lot of that repetitive work, those tasks can be in part automated. We're seen examples in insurance where reduced teams of 15 people working in the back office, trying to apply security controls, compliance down to just a couple of people who are looking at the exceptions that don't fit. And that's really important because maybe two years ago the emphasis was on regulatory compliance of data with policies such as GDPR and CCPA. Last year, very much the economic effect to reduce head counts and enterprises running lean looking to reduce that cost. This year, we can see that already some of the more proactive companies are looking at initiatives, such as net zero emissions. How they use data to understand how they can become more, have a better social impact and using data to drive that. And that's across all of their operations and supply chain. So, those regulatory compliance issues that might have been external. We see similar patterns emerging for internal initiatives that are benefiting that environment, social impact, and of course costs. >> Great perspectives. Jeff Hammerbacher once famously said, the best minds of my generation are trying to get people to click on ads and Ajay those examples that you just gave of, you know social good and moving things forward are really critical. And I think that's where data is going to have the biggest societal impact. Okay guys, great conversation. Thanks so much for coming to the program. Really appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much, Dave. >> Keep it right there, for more insight and conversation around creating a resilient digital business model. You're watching theCube. (soft music)