[Music] from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante uipath's recent 750 million dollar raise at a 35 billion valuation underscores investor enthusiasm for robotic process automation rpa and why not the pandemic has fueled a surge in automation as organizations retool their operations and prepare for a post-covered environment but look reasonable people are asking is this market getting overheated welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we'll explore the current trends in the rpa market and try to address the question is uipath's value supported by the spending data how will the rpa market evolve from a total available market perspective and where do some of the other players like automation anywhere pega systems and blue prism fit let's first summarize what's new in rpa since we last reported in the space we've all beat to death the positive impact that covet has had on many sectors and rpa is one of the beneficiaries from most if not many organizations if you're not a digital business today you're out of business and replacing labor with software is a major factor in the digital transformations that are taking place now uipath has raised about two billion dollars to date and has a value comparable to that of snowflake at its ipo many are predicting that it will in fact be the snowflake of 2021. look i'm optimistic about the future of uipath but in my opinion the operational excellence that frank slootman and mike scarpelli have brought to snowflake is not nearly as baked as at that at uipath and that that said the market conditions are quite good for uipath right now now while cost reduction is still the main driver for rpa adoptions we're seeing more business productivity use cases that point to a broader automation agenda than simply installing some software robots and point applications to eliminate mundane tasks rather we're seeing a much more holistic thinking in within organizations in a large part driven by the covid slap in the face and given the ceos have now a green light to make big changes that would have been culturally more difficult pre-pandemic to wit we're seeing many more centers of excellence pop up around rpa with a more aggressive agenda than we saw pre-covered before covert these efforts they've been met with a lot more resistance to change than we're seeing today now in the coming decade we expect two major trends to emerge one is a move from this search and destroy mentality toward process transformation to more of an automated approach around discovering candidates for automation second is low code implementations are likely to lead the rise of the so-called citizen developer now capabilities in this regard today are nascent within most products but we believe they will improve steadily over the next several years years and lead to the democracy democratization of rpa so the big question is are we in an rpa bubble or is this really the next big thing this chart depicts our attempt a while back to assess the total available market for robotic process automation and there are a few important points here first our effort was somewhat narrowly focused on rpa tooling but we did try to take into account a broader automation agenda across enterprises we tried to size the move from back office to front office to enterprise-wide automation efforts leading to this buzzword that ultimately gartner created called hyper automation now when we first published this chart we got feedback that we were too conservative and so you know we've thought about what could we be missing and that's depicted there in that red big question mark we've got to do more work on this but looking at the global automation market we see a multi-hundred billion dollar opportunity however that largely focuses on industrial automation versus replacing human tasks with robots process automation is a much smaller piece of that pie and overall these larger figures they also include drones autonomous vehicles and other innovations that rpa may or may not address is it possible that there's an order of magnitude greater opportunity for rpa than we initially thought well here's another way to look at it rpa generally is targeted at larger organizations which can justify the investment with faster returns according to fortune magazine the 500 largest companies in the world generate more than 30 trillion in revenue is it unreasonable to assume that they could spend one percent of revenue on rpa we don't think that's crazy so there very well could be a tam of hundreds of billions of dollars for this market we would say however to attack that opportunity point rpa tools won't get you there but automation platforms very well could in fact that better be the case because with a 35 billion dollar valuation pre-ipo uipath and its peers will need a massive massive market to justify those investments so we'll keep digging into that expanded opportunity to see if it holds water now another way to look at the opportunity is to look at the spending data so let's do that and bring in our etr friends to that discussion as we've reported for many quarters now rpa is one of the top areas in which organizations are investing and you can see that in this chart here this graphic shows net score or spending momentum across the etr taxonomy and you can see we've highlighted rpa which along with machine learning slash ai cloud and containers lead the pack the big four momentum leaders in the only four that consistently over the last several quarters show a net score in the survey above that dotted red forty percent line now remember that net score is a measure of spending velocity based on looking at the percent of customers in the survey that are spending more and subtracting those that are spending less the calculation is a bit more granular than that but you get the point now one of the components of net score is new adoptions and that's part of the spend more equation and this chart shows that only the new adoptions across that taxonomy in those sectors and you can see that rpa and machine learning slash ai top the charts that yellow line shows the january survey results you can see these two sectors are well ahead of others in terms of new spending albeit they are down somewhat from previous quarters a year ago rather but up from the previous quarter now here's another look at the data let's let's really drill into the the rpa sector and look at those components of net score what this chart shows is that granularity along with market share for the past nine surveys i'll explain that the bright green or that lime green on the bars that's new adoptions the forest green is the percent of customers that are spending more on rpa that means they're spending more than five percent the gray depicts flat spending the pink is spending less meaning less than five percent relative to earlier years and the the earlier year and the bright red is replacing the platform we're chucking it out and the net score blue line at the top it nets out the lesses from the moors so you can see very highly elevated for the rpa sector holding firm over time and now even increasing so very very positive now you see that yellow line at the bottom that shows so-called market share which depicts the pervasiveness of rpa within the overall survey relative to other sectors so the steady uptick over time suggests that buyers continue to allocate more and more budget to rpa so very very positive signs there because let's face it the return has been really positive and the mandate for automation thanks to covid is really staring us in the face now let's drill into some of the vendors and see who's winning in the market and maybe who's got less momentum the chart here shows spending momentum or net score over time for the five companies that we're showing now at the top is power automate from microsoft which last year required softer motive and is integrating rpa into its offerings microsoft look they loom large as we've reported and they're everywhere in so many many sectors and rpa is no different the reality is that power automate is not as mature as products from the leaders a classic microsoft 1.0 version if you will but they're in the game now and they cannot be taken lightly we expect microsoft to steadily improve its functionality and integration with the broader microsoft portfolio making it an easy choice for many if not most of microsoft's customers that either want to dabble in rpa or have it as an item in their portfolio you can see uipath has retaken the lead in net score over rival automation anywhere and is showing a nice uptick from last summer's survey as it has made some acquisitions and is moving toward becoming a platform play versus a product play we'd also note three factors that favor uipath in the marketplace first is its simplicity uipath is probably the easiest to adopt second is its emphasis on training and third is the very robust community and ecosystem that it's developed automation anywhere's line is under pressure and we think that's because the company essentially had to do a major product refresh and like any install based migration it's going to slow down momentum and create maybe some friction in the marketplace but we think from a competitive standpoint it was absolutely the right move by aa you've got to bite the bullet invest in the product and grow from there the company also has a really strong ecosystem good engineering and we expect continued improvement for automation anywhere going forward you also see a big uptick for blue prism it's got a mature product and a strong ecosystem as well and we've seen its momentum pop up and down in the survey over the last several quarters and years but they're clearly a solid player in this market they don't have the momentum of a ui path or an automation anywhere they're they're a smaller company but certainly they're a credible player now pega systems is really interesting to us we don't see them as an rpa player per se they're much more focused on a broader business process play include things like crm and intelligent automation in their portfolio rpa is a bundled offering that pega layers into its broader suite and we like what the company has accomplished we're going to come back to them in a moment and talk a little bit more about them and their performance but before we do that let's take another look at the competitive landscape this view is one of our favorites it's that it's that xy view so so we're plotting net score on the y-axis and market share or the pervasiveness within the survey on the x-axis and you can see uipath is they're literally off the charts in the upper right there with because microsoft looming large with its very strong presence and fast adoption of power automate but microsoft ui path automation anywhere in blue prism they all have shared ends or mentions in the survey of more than 50 and net scores over 50 percent so those stand out to us above the rest with uipath as the leader combining both the most significant market momentum and product excellence notwithstanding microsoft's presence again microsoft and their microsoft and we'd be foolish to minimize their their presence in the marketplace now again pega is in the mix they've got a respectable 31 net score but again they're not an rpa specialist and their strategy is paying off in our view the rpa froth combined with pegas history its vision its solid engineering culture and execution are paying off for the company as you can see in these charts so there's charts so what we're showing here is a graph of pegas stock price over the last five years what's most impressive is the strong upward move very very strong since march of last year peg is a billion dollar company been around for a long time but it's growing it's moving it's shifting into a subscription model so it's going through that process of communicating that to wall street i think doing a very very good job of it as it transitions it's transitioning to a recurring revenue stream that's going to have a much more predictable cash flow and profitability impact on the company and you can see its valuation it's at 12 billion it's about 12x revenue it's significantly lower than uipath's most recent value by a factor of roughly 3x but you know presumably that's due to its slower growth rate but pega they've got to love this dynamic because the market's coming to them they've got a mature business that's thriving through a transition to an arr model with solid growth strong customer base and a culture of innovation so really solid job within pega that management is doing in our opinion now let's close by digging into the two pure play leaders uipath and automation anywhere we do this quite frequently in these updates and we'll look at the so-called wheel charts for each company let's start with uipath so this is a pie if you will or wheel breakdown of what we described earlier in net score it's derived from this view by subtracting the reds from the greens several things stand out first you got a nice chunk of new adoptions at 15 percent supported by 56 percent of its customers spending more and only 5 percent spending less than zero percent replacing so that's a very nice picture now let's compare that to automation anywhere and its profile the chart shows the same picture and and even a larger substantially larger new adoptions so that perhaps is is a function of its new platform resonating with customers now automation anywhere's net score is lower than you ui pass owing to a much larger portion of the customer base that has flat spending and a slightly higher replacement figure but both these companies exhibit strong spending patterns in the etr data now we want to share one other data point that stands out in its early days this new relatively new era of rpa we're still there even though rpa has been around for for decades but the point is that large companies have they got a lot of divisions with a lot of buying autonomy within those divisions and as such you're going to see multiple rpa vendors within the account so the question here is okay how are these accounts doing these where they have multiple vendors in the account what stands out in this chart is uipath's performance in shared accounts the chart looks at microsoft power automate and automation anywhere accounts you can see that in the little pull down there in the in the left hand column and so it's it's it's it's microsoft power automate and aaa accounts that also have ui path installed and you can see that little cut on ui path there in the upper middle and there's 149 of those accounts in the etr data set this last quarter and you can see the performance of uipath since covid hit this is very encouraging it speaks to ui past strong go to market and it's really solid land and expand strategy so by no means is this game over for the other players but the etr data continues to support where investors are placing their bets what customers tell us and anecdotal information within the marketplace that that uipath continues to pave the way for a new wave of growth a well-funded automation anywhere is on its tail and these two continue to vie for leadership and are trying to break out from the pack we expect public offerings from both companies within the next 12 to 24 months in fact as you know probably uipath has filed confidentially to do an ipo and has given a time frame i think of 12 to 18 months and they both companies in our view got to get they got a window of 12 to 24 months to go public prior to microsoft getting its product act together and getting to a point where it could really cause some disruption to these respective businesses so anyway i hope this gives you a good snapshot of how we see the marketplace how do you see it please let me know you can dm me at d vallante or comment on my linkedin posts or email me at david.velante at siliconangle.com remember i publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and don't forget to check out etr.plus as well all these episodes are available on podcasts wherever you listen thanks for watching this episode of thecube insights powered by etr this is dave vellante wishing you well stay safe and we'll see you next time you

>> Announcer: theCUBE presents Kubecon and Cloudnativecon Europe, 2022. Brought to you by Red Hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to Valencia, Spain in Kubecon, Cloudnativecon Europe 2022. I'm Keith Townsend and alongside Enrico senior IT analyst for (indistinct). Welcome back to the show Enrico. >> Thank you again for having me here. >> First impressions of Kubecon. >> Well, great show. As I mentioned before, I think that we are really in this very positive mood of talking with each other and people wanting to see the projects, people that build the projects and it's amazing. A lot of interesting conversation in the show floor and in the various sessions, very positive mood. >> So this is going to be a fun one, we have some amazing builders on the show this week and none other than William Morgan, CEO of Buoyant. What's your role in the Linkerd project? >> So I was one of the original creators of Linkerd, but at this point I'm just the beautiful face of the project. (all laughing) >> Speaking of beautiful face of the project Linkerd just graduated from as a CNCF project. >> Yeah, that's right so last year we became the first service mesh to graduate in the CNCF, very proud of that and that's thanks largely to the incredible community around Linkerd that is just excited about the project and wants to talk about it and wants to be involved. >> So let's talk about the significance of that. Linkerd not the only service mesh project out there. Talk to me about the level effort to get it to the point that it's graduated. You don't see too many projects graduating CNCF in general so let's talk about kind of the work needed to get Linkerd to this point. >> Yeah so the bar is high and it's mostly a measure, not necessarily of like the project being technically good or bad or anything but it's really a measure of maturity of the community around it so is it being adopted by organizations that are really relying on it in a critical way? Is it being adopted across industries? Is it having kind of a significant impact on the Cloudnative community? And so for us there was the work involved in that was really not any different from the work involved in kind of maintaining Linkerd and growing the community in the first place, which is you try and make it really useful. You try and make it really easy to get started with, you try and be supportive and to have a friendly and welcoming community. And if you do those things and you kind of naturally get yourself to the point where it's a really strong community full of people who are excited about it. >> So from the point of view of users adopting this technology, so we are talking about everybody or do you see really large organization, large Kubernetes clusters infrastructure adopting it? >> Yeah, so the answer to that is changed a little bit over time but at this point we see Linkerd adoption across industries, across verticals, and we see it from very small companies to very large ones so one of the talks I'm really excited about at this conference is from the folks at Xbox cloud gaming who are going to talk about how they deployed Linkerd across 22,000 pods around the world to serve basically on demand video games. Never a use case I would ever have imagined for Linkerd and at the previous Kubecon virtually Kubecon EU, we had a whole keynote about how Linkerd was used to combat COVID 19. So all sorts of uses and it really doesn't, whether it's a small cluster or large cluster it's equally applicable. >> Wow so as we talk about Linkerd service mesh we obviously are going to talk about security, application control, etcetera. But in this climate software supply chain is critical and you think about open source software supply chain, talk to us about the recent security audit of Linkerd. >> Yeah so one of the things that we do as part of a CNCF project and also as part of, I think our relationship with our community is we have regular security audits where we engage security professionals who are very thorough and dig into all the details. Of course the source code is all out there, so anyone can read through the code but they'll build threat model analysis and things like that. And then we take their report and we publish it. We say, "Hey look, here's the situation." So we have earlier reports online and this newest one was done by a company called Trail of Bits and they built a whole threat model and looked through all the different ways that Linkerd could go wrong and they always find issues of course, it would be very scary, I think, to get a report that was like, no, we didn't find- >> Yeah everything's clean. >> Yeah everything's fine, should be okay, I don't know. But they did not find anything critical. They found some issues that we rapidly addressed and then everything gets written up in the report and then we publish it, as part of an open source artifact. >> How do you, let's say, do they give you and adds up something? So if something happens so that you can act on the code before somebody else discovers the- >> Yeah, they'll give you a preview of what they found and then often it's not like you're going before the judge and the judge makes a judgment and then like off to jail, it's a dialogue because they don't necessarily understand the project. Well, they definitely don't understand it as well as you do. So you are helping them understand which parts are interesting to look at from the security perspective, which parts are not that interesting. They do their own investigation of course but it's a dialogue the entire time. So you do have an opportunity to say, "Oh you told me that was a a minor issue. "I actually think that's larger or vice versa." You think that's a big problem actually, we thought about that and it's not a big problem because of whatever. So it's a collaborative process. >> So Linkerd been around, like when I first learned about service mesh Linkerd was the project that I learned about. It's been there for a long time, just mentioned 22,000 clusters. That's just mind boggling- >> Pods, 22,000 pods. >> That's pods. >> Clusters would be great. >> Yeah, clusters would be great too but it filled 22,000 pods. >> It's a big deployment. >> That's a big deployment of Linkerd, but all the way down to the smallest set of pods as well. What are some of the recent project updates some of the learnings you bought back from the community and updated the project as a result? >> Yeah so a big one for us, on the topic of security, Linkerd, a big driver of Linkerd adoption is security and less on the supply chain side and more on the traffic, like live traffic security. So things like mutual TLS, so you can encrypt the communication between pods and make sure it's authenticated. One of the recent feature additions is authorization policy so you can lock down connections between services and you can say Service A is only allowed to talk to Service B and I want to do that not based on network identity, not based on like IP addresses, 'cause those are spoofable and we've kind of like as an industry moved, we've gotten a little more advanced from that but actually based on the workload identity as captured by the mutual TLS certificate exchange. So we give you the ability now to restrict the types of communication that are allowed to happen on your cluster. >> So, okay this is what happened. What about the future? Can you give us into suggestion on what is going to happen in the medium and long term? >> I think we're done you know we graduated, so we're just going to stop. (all laughing) What else is there to do? There's no grad school. No, so for us, there's a clear roadmap ahead continuing down the security realm, for sure. We've given you kind of the very first building block which at the service level, but coming up in the 2.12 release we'll have route based policy as well, as you can say this service is only allowed to call these three routes on this end point. And we'll be working later to do things like mesh expansions so we can run the data plane outside of Kubernetes, so the control plane will stay in Kubernetes but the data plane will, you'll be able to run that on Vms and things like that. And then of course in the, we're also starting to look at things like, I like to make a fun of (indistinct) a lot but we are actually starting to look at (indistinct) in the ways that that might actually be useful for Linkerd users. >> So we talk a lot about the flexibility of a project like Linkerd you can do amazing things with it from a security perspective but we're talking still to a DevOps type cloud of developers who are spread thin across their skillset. How do you help balance the need for the flexibility which usually comes with more nerd knobs and servicing a crowd that wants even higher levels of abstraction and simplicity. >> Yeah, that's a great question and this is what makes Linkerd so unique in the service mesh spaces. We have a laser focus on simplicity and especially on operational simplicity so our audience, we can make it easy to install Linkerd but what we really care about is when you're running it and you're on call for it and it's sitting in this critical, vulnerable part of your infrastructure, do you feel confident in that? Do you feel like you understand it? Do you feel like you can observe it? Do you feel like you can predict what it's going to do? And so every aspect of Linkerd is designed to be as operationally simple as possible. So when we deliver features, that's always our primary consideration, is we have to reject the urge, we have an urge as engineers to like want to build everything, it's an ultimate platform to solve all problems and we have to really be disciplined and say we're not going to do that, we're going to look at solving the minimum possible problem with a minimum set are features because we need to keep things simple and then we need to look at the human aspect to that. And I think that's been a part of Linkerd's success. And then on the Buoyant side, of course, I don't just work on Linkerd, I also work on Buoyant which helps organizations adopt Linkerd and increasingly large organizations that are not service mesh experts don't want to be service mesh experts, they want to spend their time and energy developing their business, right? And building the business logic that powers their company. So for them we have actually recently introduced, fully managed Linkerd where we can take on, even though Linkerd has to run on your cluster, the sidecar proxies has to be alongside your application. We can actually take on the operational burden of upgrades and trust income rotation, and installation. And you could effectively treat it as a utility, and have a hosted-like experience even though the actual bits, at least most of them not all of them, most of 'em have to live on your cluster. >> I love the focus of most CNCF projects, it's peanut butter or jelly, not peanut butter trying to be become jelly. What's the peanut butter to Linkerd's jelly? Like where does Linkerd stop? And some of the things that customers should really consider when looking at service mesh? >> Yeah, now that's a great way of looking at it and I actually think that philosophy comes from Kubernetes. I think Kubernetes itself, one of the reasons it was so successful is because it had some clearly delineated boundaries. It said, "This is what we're going to do. "And this is what we're not going to do. "So we're going to do layer three, four networking, "but we're going to stop there, "we're not going to do anything with layer seven." And that allowed the service mesh. So I guess if I were to go down the bread of the sandwich is Kubernetes, and then Linkerd is the peanut butter, I guess. And then the jelly, so I think the jelly is every other aspect of of building a platform. So if you are the audience for Linkerd most of the time is a platform owners. They're building a platform an internal platform for their developers to write code and so, as part of that, of course you've got Kubernetes, you've got Linkerd, but you've also got a CICD system. You've also got a code repository that's GitLab or or GitHub or whatever, you've got other kind of tools that are enforcing various other constraints. All of that is the jelly in the, this is analogy it's getting complicated now, and like the platform sandwich that you're serving. >> So talk to us about trans and service mesh from the, as we think of the macro. >> Yeah, so it's been an interesting space because, we were talking a little bit about this before the show but, there was so much buzz and then what we saw was basically it took two years for that buzz to become actual adoption and now a lot of the buzz is off on other exciting things and the people who remain in the Linkerd space are very focused on, "Oh, I actually have a real problem "that I need to solve "and I need to solve it now." So that's been great. So in terms of broader trends, I think one thing we've seen for sure is the service mesh space is kind of notorious for complexity, and a lot of what we've been doing on the Linkerd side has been trying to reverse that idea, because it doesn't actually have to be complex. There's interesting stuff you can do, especially when you get into the way we handle the sidecar model. It's actually really, it's a wonderful model operationally. It's really, it feels weird at first and then you're like, "Oh, actually this makes my operations a lot easier." So a lot of the trends that I see at least for Linkerd is doubling down on the sidecar model trying to make side cars as small and as thin as possible and try and make them kind of transparent to the rest of the application. >> Well, William Morgan, one of the coolest Twitter handles I've seen at WM on Twitter, that's actually a really cool Twitter handle. >> William: Thank you. >> CEO of Buoyant. Thank you for joining theCube again, Cube alum. From Valencia Spain, I'm Keith Towns, along with Enrico's (indistinct) and you're watching theCube, the leader in high tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>>The cube presents, Coon and cloud native con Europe 22, brought to you by the cloud native computing foundation. >>Welcome to vincia Spain in Coon cloud native con Europe, 2022. I'm Keith towns alongside en Rico senior. Etti senior it analyst for giong welcome back to the show en >>Rico. Thank you again for having me here. >>First impressions of QAN. >>Well, great show. As, as I mentioned before, I think that we are really in this very positive mode of talking with each other and people wanting to see, you know, the projects, people that build the projects at it's amazing. I mean, a lot of interesting conversation in the show floor and in the various sessions, very positive move. >>So this is gonna be a fun one. We have some amazing builders on the show this week, and none other than William Morgan, CEO of buoyant. What's your role in the link D project? >>So I was one of the original creators of link D but at this point I'm just the, the beautiful face of the project. >>Speaking of beautiful face of the project, linker D just graduated from as a CNCF project. >>Yeah, that's right. So last year we, we became the first service mesh to graduate in the CNCF. Very proud of that. And that's thanks, you know, largely to the incredible community around Linky that is just excited about the project and, you know, wants to talk about it and wants to be involved. >>So let's talk about the significance of that link D not the only service mesh project out there. Talk to me about the level effort to get it to the point that it's graduated. That's you don't see too many projects graduating CNCF in general. So let's talk about kind of the work needed to get Nier D to this point. >>Yeah. So, you know, the, the, the bar is high and it's mostly a measure, not necessarily of like the, the project being technically good or bad or anything, but it's really a measure of maturity of the community around it. So is it being adopted by organizations that are really relying on it in a critical way? Is it, you know, being adopted across industries, you know, is it having kind of a significant impact on the cloud native community? And so for us, you know, there was the, the work involved in that was really not any different from the work involved in, in kind of maintaining ity and growing the community in the first place, which is you try and make it really useful. You try and make it really easy to get started with you, try and be supportive and to, you know, have a, a friendly and welcoming community. And if you do those things and, you know, you kind of naturally get yourself to the point where it's a, it's a really strong community full of people who are excited about it. >>So from the of view of, you know, users adopting the, this technology, so we are talking about everybody, or do you see really, you know, large organization, large Kubernetes yeah. Clusters infrastructure adopting it. >>Yeah. So that's the answer to that is changed a little bit over time. But at this point we see Linky adoption across industries, across verticals, and we see it from very small companies to very large ones. So, you know, one of the talks I'm really excited about at this conference is from the folks at Xbox cloud gaming, who talked about, who are gonna talk about how they deployed Linky across, you know, 22,000 pods around the world to serve, you know, basically on demand video games, never a use case I would ever have imagined for Linky. And at the previous Kuan, you know, virtually Kuan EU, we had a whole keynote about how Linky was used to combat COVID 19. So all sorts of uses. And it really doesn't, you know, whether, whether it's a small cluster or large cluster it's equally applicable. >>Wow. So as we talk about link D service match, we obviously are gonna talk about security application control, etcetera. But in this climate Software supply chain is critical, right. And as we think about open source software supply chain, talk to us about the recent security audit of link dealer. >>Yeah. So one of the things that we do as part of a CNCF project, and also as part of, I, I think our relationship with our community is we have regular security audits, you know, where we, we engage security professionals who are very thorough and, you know, dig into all the details. Of course the source code is all out there, you know, so anyone can read through the code, but they'll build threat model analyses and things like that. And then we take their, their report and we publish it. We say, Hey, look, here's, you know, here's the situation. So we have earlier reports online, and this newest one was done by a company called trail of bits. And they built a whole threat model and looked through all the different ways that Linky could go wrong. And they always find issues. Of course, you know, it's, it would be very scary, I think, to get a report that was like, no, we didn't find yeah. Earth clean, you know? Yeah. Everything's fine. You know, should be okay. I don't know. Right. But they, you know, they did not find anything critical. They found some issues that we rapidly addressed and then, you know, everything gets written up in the report and, and then we publish it, you know, as part of an open source artifact >>Are, you let's say, you know, do they give you and add something? So if something happens so that you can act on the code before, you know, somebody else discovers the >>Yeah, yeah. They'll give you a preview of what they found. And then often, you know, it's not like you're going before the judge and the judge makes a judgment and then like off the jail, right. It's, it's a dialogue because they don't necessarily understand the project. Well, they definitely don't understand it as well as you do. So you are helping them, you know, understand which parts and, and your, you know, are, are interesting to look at from the security perspective, which parts are not that interesting. They do their own investigation of course, but it's a dialogue the entire time. So you do have an opportunity to say, oh, you told me that was a, a, a minor issue. I actually think that's larger or, or vice versa. You know, you, you think that's a big problem. Actually, we thought about that, and it's not a big problem because of whatever. So it's a collaborative process. >>So link D been around, like, when I first learned about service me link D was the project that I learned about. Yeah. It's been there for a long time, but just mentioned 22,000 clusters. That's just mind boggling pod, 22,000 pods, the pods. Okay. >>Clusters would be >>Great. Yeah. Yeah. Clusters would be great too, but filled 22 thousands pods, big deployment. That's the big deployment of link D but all the way down to the small, smallest set of pods as well. What are some of the recent project updates from of the learnings you bought back from the community and updated the, the project as a result? >>Yeah. So a big one for us, you know, on the topic of security link, a big driver of link adoption is security and, and less on the supply chain side and more on the traffic, like live traffic security. So things like mutual TLS. So you can encrypt the communication between pods and make sure it's authenticated. One of the recent feature additions is authorization policy. So you can lock down connections between services and you can say service a is only allowed to talk to service B. And I wanna do that. Not based on network identity, you know, and not based on like IP addresses, cuz those are spoof. And you know, we've kind of like as an industry moved, moved, we've gotten a little more advanced from that, but actually based on the workload identity, you know, as captured by the mutual TLS certificate exchange. So we give you the ability now to, to, to restrict the types of communication that are allowed to happen on your cluster. >>So, okay. This is what happened. What about the future? Can you give us, you know, into suggestion of what is going to happen in the medium and long term? >>I think we're done, you know, we graduated, so we're just gonna >>Stop there's >>What else is there to do? There's no grad school, you know? No, no. So for us, there's a clear roadmap ahead, continuing down the, the security realm, for sure. We've given you kind of the very first building block, which at the service level, but coming up in, in the two point 12 release, we'll have route based policy as well, as you can say, this service is only allowed to call these three, you know, routes on this end point and we'll be working later to do things like mesh expansion so we can run the data plane outside of Kubernetes. You know, so the control plane will stay in in Kubernetes, but the data plane will, you'll be able to run that on VMs and, and, and things like that. And then of course in the, you know, we're also starting to look at things like I like to make a fun of WAM a lot, but we are actually starting to look at WAM in, in the ways that that might actually be useful for Linky users. >>So we talk a lot about the flexibility of a project, like link D you can do amazing things with it from a security perspective, but we're talking still to a DevOps type cloud of, of, of developers who are spread thin across their skillset. How do you help balance the need for the flexibility, which usually becomes more nerd knobs and servicing a crowd that wants even higher levels of abstraction and simplicity. >>Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. And this is, this is what makes Linky so unique in the service mesh spaces. We have a laser focus on simplicity and especially on operational simplicity. So our audience, you know, we can make it easy to install Linky, but what we really care about is when you're running it and you're on call for it and it's sitting in this critical, vulnerable part of your infrastructure, do you feel confident in that? Do you feel like you understand it? Do you feel like you can observe it? Do you feel like you can predict what it's gonna do? And so every aspect of Linky is designed to be as operationally simple as possible. So when we deliver features, you know, that's always our, our primary consideration is, you know, we have to reject the urge. You know, we have an urge as, as engineers to like want to build everything, you know, it's an ultimate platform to solve all problems and we have to really be disciplined and say, we're not gonna do that. >>We're gonna look at solving the minimum possible problem with a minimum set of features because we need to keep things simple. And, and then we need to look at the human aspect to that. And I think that's been a part of, of Link's success. And then on the buoyant side, of course, you know, I don't just work on link day. I also work on, on buoyant, which helps organizations adopt Linky and, and increasingly large organizations that are not service mesh experts don't wanna be service mesh experts that, you know, they wanna spend their time and energy developing their business, right. And, and building the business logic that powers their company. So for them, we have actually re recently introduced, fully managed. Linky where we can take on, even though Linky has to run on your cluster, right? The, the, the, the sidecar proxies has to be alongside your application. We can actually take on the operational burden of, of upgrades and trust, anchor rotation, and installation. And you can effectively treat it as a utility, right. And, and, and have a, a hosted, like, experience, even though the, the actual bits, at least most of them, not all of them, most of 'em have to live on your cluster. >>I love the focus of most CNCF projects, you know, it's, it's peanut butter or jelly, not peanut butter. Yeah. Trying to be become jelly. Right. What's the, what's the, what's the peanut butter to link D's jelly. Like where does link D stop and some of the things that customers should really consider yeah. When looking at service mesh. >>Yeah. No, that's a great way of looking at it. And I, I actually think that that philosophy comes from Kubernetes. I think Kubernetes itself, one of the reasons it was so successful is because it had some clearly delineated, it said, this is what we're gonna do. Right. And this is what we're not gonna do. So we're gonna do layer three, four networking. Right. But we're gonna stop there. We're not gonna do anything with layer seven. And that allowed the service mesh. So I guess if I were to go down the, the bread, the bread of the sandwich has Kubernetes, and then Linky is the, is the peanut butter, I guess, and then the jelly, you know, so I think the jelly is every other aspect of, of building a platform. Right. So if you are the, the audience for Linky, most of the time, it's a platform owners, right. They're building a platform, an internal platform for their developers to write code. And so, as part of that, of course, you've got Kubernetes, you've got Linky, but you've also got a C I CD system. You've also got a, you know, a code repository, if it's GitLab or, or GitHub or wherever you've got, you know, other kind of tools that are enforcing various other constraints. All of that is the jelly, you know, in the, this is, analogy's getting complicated now. And like the, the platform sandwich that, you know, that you're serving. >>So talk to us about trans and service mesh from the, from the, as we think of the macro. >>Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it's been an interesting space because we were talking a little bit about, you know, about this before the show, but the, there was so much buzz, you know, and then what we, what we saw was basically it took two years for that buzz to become actual adoption, you know, and now a lot of the buzz is off on other exciting things. And the people who remain in the Linky space are, are very focused on, oh, I actually have a, a real problem that I need to solve and I need to solve it now. So that's been great. So in terms of broader trends, you know, I think one thing we've seen for sure is the service mesh space is kind of notorious for complexity, you know, and a lot of what we've been doing on the Linky side has been trying to, to reverse that, that, that idea, you know, because it doesn't actually have to be complex. There's interesting stuff you can do, especially when you get into the way we handle the sidecar model. It's actually really, it's a wonderful model operationally. It's really, it feels weird at first. And then you're like, oh, actually this makes my operations a lot easier. So a lot of the trends that I see at least for Linky is doubling down on the sidecar model, trying to make side cards as small and as thin as possible and try and make them, you know, kind of transparent to the rest of the application. So >>Well, William Morgan, one of the coolest Twitter handles I've seen at WM on Twitter, that's actually a really cool Twitter handle. Thank you, CEO of buoyant. Thank you for joining the cube again. Cube alum from Valencia Spain. I'm Keith towns, along with en Rico, and you're watching the cube, the leader in high tech coverage.

>>from around the >>globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. Welcome back to the Cubes Coverage Cube Virtual coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 which is also virtual. We're not in person this year. We're doing the remote interviews. But of course, getting all the stories, of course, reinvented, full of partnerships full of news. And we've got a great segment here with Salesforce and AWS. Eileen Schneider Win, who is the senior vice president of strategic partnerships, and Maureen Lundergan, director of worldwide training and certification address. Maureen Eileen. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. And nice keynote. What's up with the partnership? Give us a quick over your lien. What's what's the Salesforce? A day was partnership. Take a minute to explain it. >>Sure, thank you. I think I'll start out by talking about how sales were thinks about strategic partnerships. So for us, it's really it starts with the customer and being where they want us to be. And we've been so fortunate to be in this relationship with AWS for over five years now. It really started out as an infrastructure based partnership as we were seeing customers start their digital transformation journeys and moved to the cloud. But what has been really exciting as we've spent more time working together and working with our customers, we have now started to move into emotion of really bringing some differentiated solutions between the number one CRM and the most broadly adopted cloud platform to market for customers, uh, in areas like productivity, security and training and certification which will talk more about in a bit Onda. Specifically, some of those solutions are service Cloud Voice Product, which we launched this summer, announced last fall, a dream force as well as our private connect product which creates great security between the AWS platform and Salesforce. >>What? Some of the impact area is actually the two clouds you mentioned CRM and Amazon. We're seeing data obviously being a part of the equation ai machine learning. Um, what's been the impact I lean to your customer specifically >>Yeah, so specifically I'd call out to areas what one is really that foundation of security. Specifically, as government regulations and data security has become more critical, we've really been able to partner together there and and that's been crucial for certain customers in certain regions as well a certain industries like government. Uh, in addition, I would call out again that service cloud voice partnership, a zoo. We see the world moving more digital. This really allows customers to go quickly and, uh, turn on. There are solutions from anywhere at any time. >>You know, I love that any time, anywhere kind of philosophy. Now more than ever. With the pandemic collaborations required more than ever, and some people are used to it. You know, I've seen more technical developers have used to working at home, but not everyone else. The workforce still needs to get the job done. So this idea of collaboration, what is the impact in for your customers and how are you guys helping them? Because I think this is a big theme of this year That's gonna not only carry over, even when the pandemics over this idea of anywhere is all about collaboration. >>Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, the exciting thing about the partnership is we've been talking digital transformation with customers for years, but I think what we saw at the beginning of this year, as we were all thrown home and forced Thio, you know, fire up our jobs from our bedrooms or our garages. It really came down to our ability to work quickly and turn on our solutions. It's and these unprecedented times, while we're going through this now, everything we're building really is the future. So it's not just the tools and technology, it's also the processes and how work is getting done that's really come into play. But again, I'll anchor back to that service blood voice solution. So for us, call centers were completely disrupted. You think of call centers and you know, pre 2020 everyone sitting in a room together, agent side by side managers, having the ability to pop over and assist with a call or managing escalation. Now that's been completely disrupted. And it's been very exciting for us to work with our customers, to reimagine what that looks like again both from a technology perspective but also from a process perspective. And along with that, you had to reimagine how employees are learning these solutions and being trained. So we're very grateful for the partnership with AWS, and we're doing some really amazing things together. >>You know this is one of my favorite things about the enablement of Cloud. But in Salesforce has been a pioneer. As you pointed out, this connectedness feature has always been there. Now more than ever, it's highlighted with call centers, not the call center more. It's the connected center. People are connecting. And I think, Maureen, I think last time you're in the Cube. A few years ago, we were talking about virtual training online, and that was pre pet pandemic. Now you're seeing surge of online training not only because people's jobs are changing and being displaced or even shut down. New roles are emerging, right? So the virtual space Virtual world digital world, there's everyone's getting more digital faster now. How has the cove in 19 changed the landscape for training and skills demand? From your perspective, I >>mean at AWS, we've been working on our virtual capabilities for a while, so we had a digital platform out. We had a great partnership, have a great partnership with Salesforce and putting content on trailhead. We had to pivot very rapidly to virtual instructor led training and also our certifications right. We were lucky that our vendors partnered with us rapidly to pivot certification toe proctor environment. And this actually has helped to expand our ability to deliver the both training and certification in locations that we may not have been able to do before. And we have seen while it slowed. Initially, we have seen such an uptake and training over the last, um, 6 to 8 months. It's been incredible. We've been working with our customers. We've been working with our partnerships like Salesforce. We've been pushing more content out. I think customers and partners air really looking for how toe upscale their employees, uh, in a in a way, that is easy for them. And so it's actually been a great surprise to see the adoption of all of our curriculum over the last couple months. >>Well, congratulations knows a lot more work to do. It's gonna get more engaging, more virtual, more rich media. But this idea of connecting lean I wanna get back to the your your thoughts earlier, um, mentioned trailhead. Maury mentioned trailhead. You guys were doing some work with the virtual training there. What? Can you tell us more about that? And how that's going so far? >>Sounds great. So trailhead is our free online learning platform. And it really started because we have a commitment to democratizing anyone's ability to enter our industry s so you could go there and both online or with our trail head go app and experience what we call trails, which our paths for learning again on different areas of knowledge and skills and technology. And late last year, we announced an incredible partnership with AWS, where we're bringing the AWS learning content and certification to trailhead. And this is really again driven by our customers to are asking us to do our part in bringing mawr of these skilled resource is into the ecosystem. But something I also wanna highlight is I feel like this moment that we're in right now has also forced everyone to reimagine how they're doing learning even businesses, how they're training their employees and again having this free platform. And the partnership with AWS has really helped us go very quickly and create a lot of impact with customers. >>I just want to say I love the trailhead metaphor because, you know, learnings nonlinear. It's asynchronous. You've got digital. So you want to take a shortcut? You gotta know the maps And I think that's, you know, people wanna learn versus the linear, you know, tracks on. And I think that's how people have been learning online. And AWS has got a data driven strategy. Marine, I want to get your take on this because as you bring content on the trailhead, can you talk about how that works? And how you working with Railhead? >>Yeah. I mean, we started conversations a couple of years ago, and I think the interesting thing is that Salesforce and AWS have a very similar philosophy about bringing education to anybody who wants it. You'll hear me talk a lot about that in my leadership talk at reinvent, but, um, we really believe that we wanna provide content where learners learn and salesforce and trailhead have this amazing captured audience. And, um, you know, we're really looking at exploring. How do we bring education to people that might not otherwise have access to it? On DSO, we started with really foundational level content, a ws Cloud, Practitioner Essentials and AWS Cloud for technical professionals. And the interesting thing is, both of those courses have been consumed. ITT's not enough to just put it out there you want people to complete the trails and we've seen such an amazing uptake on the courses with, like 85% completion rate on one of the trails and 95% completion rate on the other one. And to keep customers engage is really a credit toe. How trailhead is designed. >>You know, it's interesting. The certification people don't lose sight of the fact that that's kind of the in the end state. Then you start a new trail. I mean, this >>is >>the this is really what it's all about. Can you just share some observations that you've seen for people that are coming into this now to say, Hey, okay, what do I expect? And what are some of the outcomes? >>Yeah, I mean, first, what we're seeing is our customers are being very clear that they need more of these skills. So we're also seeing the need for Salesforce administrators out in our ecosystem. And I think with everything going on this year, it's also an opportunity for people who are looking to pivot. Their careers were moving to tech and again, this free learning platform and the content that we're bringing has been really powerful and again for us. The need for salesforce administrators and cloud practitioners out in our ecosystem are in more demand than ever. >>Maureen. From your perspective on AWS, you see a lot of the new new jobs cybersecurity, Brazilian openings. Where do you see the most needs on for training and certification? Can you highlight some of the areas that are emerging and trending, if you will? >>I would say it's interesting because what we're seeing is is both ends of the spectrum. People that are really trying to just really understand who cloud is, whether it's, ah, business leader within an organization, a finance person, a marketing person. So cloud practitioner, you know, we're seeing huge adoption and consumption on both our platform in on Salesforce. But also some other areas are security and machine learning machine learning. We have five learning paths on our digital platform. We've also extended that content out to other platforms and the consumption rate is significant. And so, you know, I think we're seeing, uh, customers consume that. But the other thing that we're doing is we're really focused on looking at who doesn't have access to education and making sure that's available. So I think the large adoption of Cloud Practitioner in Practitioner is is largely due to the other things that we're doing with programs like Restart our academic programs >>to close it out, Alina want to get your thoughts and final thoughts on the relationship and how people can find more information about this partnership and what it means. Take, take it home. >>Thank you for asking. So just like everything else we've been talking about today, we've had to reimagine how we're showing up at this event together and very exciting thing that my team has created is the AWS Virtual Park. And anyone can access that at salesforce dot com slash aws. So please go check it out. You can experience our products here from our experts and experience its innovation on your own. >>Great insight. Thanks for coming on and participating. Really appreciate Salesforce and AWS two big winning leading clouds working together Trail had great great offering. Thanks for coming on sharing the news. Appreciate >>it. Thank you. >>It's the Cube virtual covering. It was reinvent virtual. Of course. Check out all the information here All three weeks. Walter Wall coverage. I'm John Fury with the Cube. Thanks for watching

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. Welcome back, I'm still minimum and this is the Cubes coverage of VM World 2020 our 11th year doing the Cube. First year. We're doing it, of course, virtually globally. Happy to welcome back to the program. One of our Cube alumni, Shannon Champion, and she is the director of product marketing with Dell Technologies. Shannon, Nice to see you and thanks so much for joining us. >>Thanks for having me. Good to see you as well. >>Alright, So big thing, of course, at VM World, talking about building off of what was Project Pacific at last year's show? Talking about how kubernetes all the wonderful cloud native pieces go in. So let's let's talk about application modernization. Shannon, you know, with a theme I've talked about for a number of years, is you know, we need to modernize the platform, and then we can modernize the applications on top of those. So tell us what you're hearing from your customers and how Delon vm, where then, are bringing the solutions to help customers really along that journey. >>Yeah, I'd love Thio. It's fun stuff. So, um, enterprises are telling us that especially now more than ever, they're really looking for how they must digitally transform. And they need to do that so they can drive innovation and get a competitive advantage on one way. That they're able to do that is by finding ways to flexibly and rapidly move work loads to where they make sense, whether that's on premises or in the public cloud. And the new standard for doing this is becoming cloud native applications. There was a recent I. D. C. Future Escape that predicted that by 2025 2 3rd of enterprises will be prolific software producers with code being deployed on a daily basis, and over 90% of applications at that time will be delivered with cognitive approaches. So it's just kind of crazy to think, and what's really impressive to is that the sheer volume of applications that are anticipated to be produced with these cloud native approaches Ah, it's expected to be over 500 million new APS created with cognitive approaches by 2024 just kind of putting that into perspective 500 million. APS is the same number that's been created over the last 40 years. So it's a fun, fun trend to be part of. >>Yeah, it's really amazing. When I talked to customers, there's some It's like, Oh, let me show you how Maney APs I've done and created in the last 18 months. It was like, Great. How does that compare before? And they're like, we weren't creating APS. We were buying APS. We were buying software. We had outsourced some of those pieces. So you know that that that trend we've been talking about for a number of years is kind of everyone's a software company, Um, does not mean that, you know, we're getting rid of the old business models. But Shannon, there are challenges there either expanding and moving faster or, you know, making sure that I have the talent in house. So bring us inside. What if some of the big things that your customers are telling you, uh, maybe that's holding them back from unlocking that central? >>Yeah, totally. You hit on a couple of them, you know, we're definitely seeing a lot of interest in adoption of kubernetes and clearly VM Ware is leading the way with Changzhou. But we're also hearing that they're underestimating the challenges on how toe quote unquote get to kubernetes. Right? How do you stand up that full cloud native staff and particularly at scale Thio? How do you manage the ongoing operations and maintain that infrastructure? How do you support the various stakeholders? How do you bring I t operators and developers together? Eso There's really a wide range of challenges that, um businesses air facing. And the other thing is that you hit on, you know, they're going to be producing mawr and Mawr cloud native applications, but they still need to maintain legacy applications, many of which are driving business, critical applications and workloads. So they're going to need to look for solutions that help them manage both and allow them to re factor or retire those legacy ones at their own pace so they can maintain business continuity. >>Yeah, and of course, Shannon, we know as infrastructure people, our job was always toe, you know, give the environment to allow the applications to run in virtualization. For years, it was Well, I knew if I virtualized something, I could leave it there and it wasn't going to. It didn't have to worry about the underlying hardware changes. Help us understand How does kubernetes fit into this environment? Because, as I said that people don't want to even worry about it. And the infrastructure people now need to be able to change, expand and, you know, respond to the business so much faster than we might have in times past. >>Yeah, so from an infrastructure perspective, working with VM ware based on tons of really the essence of that is to bring I t operators and developers together. The infrastructure has a common set of management that, you know, each the developer and the I t operators can work in the language there most familiar with. And, you know, the communication of the translation all happens within Tan Xue so that they're more speaking the same, um, language when it comes Thio, you know, managing the infrastructure in particular with VM ware tansy on VX rail. We are delivering kind of a range of infrastructure options because we know people are still trying to figure out you know, where they are in their kubernetes readiness path. Some people have really developed mature capabilities in house for who were Netease for software defined networking. And for those customers, they still may want Thio. You know, use a reference architecture er and build on top of the ex rail for, you know, a custom cloud native specific application. What we're finding is more and more customers, though, don't have that level of kubernetes expertise, especially at scale. And so VM ware v sphere with Tan Xue on VX rail as well as via more cloud foundation on VX rail are ways Thio get a fast start on kubernetes with directly on these fair or kind of go with the full Monty of VM or Cloud Foundation on VX rail. >>Well, we're bringing up VX rail. Of course. The whole wave of h C I was How do we enable simplicity? We don't wanna have to think about these. We wanna, uh, just make it so that customers can just buy a solution. Of course. VX rail joint solution, you know, heavily partnership with VM ware. So, Shannon, there's a few options. VM has been moving very fast toe expand out that the into portfolio, uh, back at the beginning of the year when the sphere seven came out. You needed the BMR Cloud Foundation. Which, of course, what was an option for for for the VX rail. So help us understand you laid out a little bit some of those options there. But what should I know as Adele customer, Uh, you know what my options are? How the fault Kansas Wheat fits into it. >>Yeah, eso We like to call it kubernetes your way with the ex rail. So we have a range of options to fit your operational or kubernetes scale requirements or your level of expertise. So the three options, our first for customers that are looking for that tested, validated, multi configuration reference architectures er that will deliver platform as a service or containers is a service. We've got Tom to architecture for VX rail, which is a new name for what was known as pivot already architecture er and then for customers that may have minimum scaling requirements. They may have some of that expertise in house to manage at scale. The fastest path to get started with kubernetes is the new VM ware V sphere with Changzhou on VX rail. And then last I mentioned kind of that full highly automated turnkey on promises Cloud platform. That's the VM, or Cloud Foundation, on VX rail, which is also known as Dell Technologies Cloud Platform. And that option supports Tan Xue with software defined networking and security built in with that automated lifecycle management across the full stack. So there's really three paths to it from a reference architecture approach to a fast path on the actual clusters all the way to the full Deltek Cloud platform. And Dell Technologies is the first and only really offering this breath of tans. You infrastructure deployment options. Eso customers can really, uh, choose the best path for them. >>Yeah, So, Shannon, if if I If I think back to what we saw in the keynote, you know, VM Ware lays out there, they're hybrid and multi cloud solution. So of course they're they're public cloud the VM ware cloud on a W s. They have that solution. They have extended extended partnerships. Now, with azure uh, the the the offering with Oracle. Uh, that's coming, and I guess I could think to just think of the delta cloud on VX rail as just one of those other clouds in that hybrid and multi cloud solutions. Do I have that right? Same stack. Same management. If I'm if I'm living in that VM world world. >>Yeah. So the Deltek Cloud platform is an on premises hybrid cloud. So, you know, ah, lot of customers were looking to reduce complexity really quickly especially, you know, with some of the work from home initiatives that were sprung upon us and trying to pivot, um to respond to that. And, you know, the answer to solving some of that complexity is to jump into public cloud. What we found is a lot of customers actually are driving a hybrid cloud strategy and approach. And we know many customers sort of have that executive mandate. There's value in, um, driving that are on prem hybrid cloud approach. And that's what Dell Technologies Cloud platform is. So you get the consistent operations in the consistent infrastructure and more of the public cloud like consumption experience while having the infrastructure on Prem for security data locality. Other, um, you know, cost reasons like that. Eso That's really where VM or Cloud Foundation on VF Trail comes into play eso leveraging the VM ware technologies you have on Prem Hybrid cloud. It can connect all those public cloud providers that you talked about. So you have, you know, core to cloud on Dwan. Of the new capabilities that VM or Cloud Foundation, is announced support for is remote clusters. So that takes us kind of from cloud all the way toe edge because you now have the same VCF operational capabilities and operational efficiency with centralized management for remote locations. >>Wonderful. I'm glad you brought up the edge piece. Of course, you talk to the emerging space vm ware talking about ai talking about EJ, so help us understand. How much is it? The similar operational model? Is it even eyes that part of the VX rail family? What's the What's the state of the state in 2020 when it comes to how edge fits into that cloud core edge discussion that you just raised? >>Yeah, when you look at trends, especially for hyper converged edge and cloud native are kind of taking up a lot of the airwaves right now. Eso hyper converge is gonna play a big role in Theodore option of both cloud native Band Edge. And I think the intersection of those two comes into play with things like the remote cluster support for VM Ware Cloud Foundation on VX rail, where you can run cloud, you know, cloud native based modern applications with Tan Xue alongside traditional workloads at the edge, which traditionally have more stringent requirements. Less resource is maybe they need a more hardened environment, power and cooling, you know, um, constraints. So with VCF on VX rail, you have all the operational goodness that comes from the partnership in the levels of integration that we have with VM Ware. And customers can sort of realize that promise of full workload management mobility in a true hybrid cloud environment. >>Shannon I'm wondering what general feedback you're getting from your customers is as they look at a zoo, said these cloud native solutions. You know what's what's the big take away? Is this a continuation of the HD I wave that you've seen? Do they just pull this into their hybrid environments? Um, I'm wondering if you have any either any specific examples that you've been anonymized or just the general gestalt that you're getting from your customers. Is that how they're doing expanding, uh, into these, you know, new environments that kind of stretch them in different ways. >>Yeah, it's interesting because you know, there's there's customers that run the gamut when we look at those that are sort of the farther down their digital transformation journey. Those are the ones that were already planning for cloud native applications or had some in development. Uh, there's also some trends that we're seeing based on, you know, the the size of cluster deployments and the range of, you know, various configurations that are an indicator of those customers that are more modernized in terms of their approach to cloud native. And what we find from those customers, especially over the last six months, is that they're more prepared to respond to the unknown on bond. That was a big lesson for some of the other customers that you know, had new. The digital transformation was the way of the future, but hadn't yet sort of come up with a strategy on how to get there themselves were finding those customers are inhibiting their investments to areas that can help them be more ready for the unknown in the future. In Cloud native is top of that list. >>Absolutely. Shannon Day Volante showed a few times There's the people in the office, you know, with their white board doing everything. And there's the wrecking ball of covert 19. Kind of like Well, if you weren't ready and you weren't already down this path, you better move fast. Wonderful. All right, Shannon. So we know, uh, from past years, you know, VX rail. Usually it's all over the show. So in the digital world, what do you want to he takeaways. What are some of the key? You know, hands on demos, sessions that that people should check out. >>Thank you. Yeah. So hopefully your take away is that the X ray is a great infrastructure to support modern applications. First and foremost, we have, you know, a jointly engineered system built with VM ware, four VM ware environments to enhance fam. Where, and we do that with our the extra LHC I system software, which I didn't give a shout out to yet, which extends that native capabilities and really is the secret behind how we do seamless automated operational experience with the ex rail. And that's the case, whether it's traditional or modern applications. So that's my little commercial for VX rail at the show. Please tune into our VM World session on this topic. We also have hands on labs. We are launching a fun augmented reality game. Eso Please check that out on. We have a new Web page as well that you could get access to all the latest assets and guides that help you, you know, navigate your journey for cloud native. And that's at dell technologies dot com slash Hangzhou. >>Wonderful. Well, Shannon Champion, thanks so much. Great to see you again. And be short. Uh, we look forward to hearing more in the future. >>Thanks to >>stay with us. Lots more coverage from VM World 2020. I'm stew. Minimum is always thank you for watching the Cube.

>>long from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back to the Cube. Here live in Las Vegas for aws reinvent I'm John for a devil on the ads, always extracting the signal from the noise. We're here for 1/7 reinvent of the eight years that they've had at what a wave. One of the biggest waves is the modernization of procurement, the modernization of business, commercial business and the rapid acceleration of public sector. We're here with the chief of public sector for AWS. Teresa Carlson, vice president publics that globally great to have you >>so great to have the Q begin this year. We appreciate you being here, >>so we're just seeing so much acceleration of modernization. Even in the commercial side, 80 talks about transformation. It's just a hard core on the public sector side. You have so many different areas transforming faster because they haven't transformed before. That's correct. This is a lot of change. What's changed the most for you in your business? >>Well, again, I'll be here 10 years this mad that A B s and my eighth reinvent, and what really changed, which was very exciting this year, is on Monday. We had 550 international government executives here from 40 countries who were talking about their modernization efforts at every level. Now again, think about that. 40 different governments, 550 executives. We had a fantastic day for them planned. It was really phenomenal because the way that these international governments or think about their budget, how much are they going to use that for maintaining? And they want to get that lesson last. Beckett for Modernization The Thin John It's a Beckett for innovation so that they continue not only modernized, but they're really looking at innovation cycles. So that's a big one. And then you heard from somewhere customers at the breakfast this morning morning from from a T. F. As part of the Department of Justice. What they're doing out. I'll call to back on firearms. They completely made you the cloud. They got rid of 20 years of technical debt thio the Veterans Administration on what they're digging for V A benefits to educational institutions like our mighty >>nose, and he had on stages Kino, Cerner, which the health care companies and what struck me about that? I think it relates to your because I want to get your reaction is that the health care is such an acute example that everyone can relate to rising costs. So cloud helping reduce costs increase the efficiencies and patient care is a triple win. The same thing happens in public sector. There's no place to hide anymore. You have a bona fide efficiencies that could come right out of the gate with cloud plus innovation. And it's happening in all the sectors within the public sector. >>So true. Well, Cerner is a great example because they won the award at V a Veteran's administration to do the whole entire medical records modernization. So you have a company on stage that's commercial as I met, commercial as they are public sector that are going into these large modernization efforts. And as you sit on these air, not easy. This takes focus and leadership and a real culture change to make these things happen. >>You know, the international expansion is impressive. We saw each other in London. We did the health care drill down at your office is, of course, a national health. And then you guys were in Bahrain, and what I deserve is it's not like these organizations. They're way behind. I mean, especially the ones that it moved to. The clouds are moving really fast. So well, >>they don't have as much technical debt internationally. It's what we see here in the U. S. So, like I was just in Africa and you know what we talked about digitizing paper. Well, there's no technology on that >>end >>there. It's kind of exciting because they can literally start from square one and get going. And there's a really hunger and the need to make that happen. So it's different for every country in terms of where they are in their cloud journey. >>So I want to ask you about some of the big deals. I'll see Jet eyes in the news, and you can't talk about it because it's in protest and little legal issues. But you have a lot of big deals that you've done. You share some color commentary on from the big deals and what it really means. >>Yeah, well, first of all, let me just say with Department of Defense, Jet are no jet. I We have a very significant business, you know, doing work at every part of different defense. Army, Navy, Air Force in the intelligence community who has a mission for d o d terminus a t o N g eight in a row on And we are not slowing down in D. O d. We had, like, 250 people at a breakfast. Are Lantian yesterday giving ideas on what they're doing and sharing best practices around the fence. So we're not slowing down in D. O d. We're really excited. We have amazing partners. They're doing mission work with us. But in terms of some really kind of fend, things have happened. We did a press announcement today with Finn Rat, the financial regulatory authority here in the U. S. That regulates markets at this is the largest financial transactions you'll ever see being processed and run on the cloud. And the program is called Cat Consolidated Audit Trail. And if you remember the flash crash and the markets kind of going crazy from 2000 day in 2008 when it started, Finneran's started on a journey to try to understand why these market events were happening, and now they have once have been called CAT, which will do more than 100 billion market points a day that will be processed on the cloud. And this is what we know of right now, and they'll be looking for indicators of nefarious behavior within the markets. And we'll look for indicators on a continuous basis. Now what? We've talked about it. We don't even know what we don't know yet because we're getting so much data, we're going to start processing and crunching coming out of all kinds of groups that they're working with, that this is an important point even for Finn rep. They're gonna be retiring technical debt that they have. So they roll out Cat. They'll be retiring other systems, like oats and other programs that they >>just say so that flash crash is really important. Consolidated, honest, because the flash crash, we'll chalk it up to a glitch in the system. Translation. We don't really know what happened. Soto have a consolidated auto trail and having the data and the capabilities, I understand it is really, really important for transparency and confidence in the >>huge and by the way, thinner has been working with us since 2014. They're one of our best partners and are prolific users of the cloud. And I will tell you it's important that we have industries like thin red regulatory authorities, that air going in and saying, Look, we couldn't possibly do what we're doing without cloud computing. >>Tell me about the technical debt because I like this conversation is that we talk about in the commercial side and developer kind of thinking. Most businesses start ups, Whatever. What is technical debt meet in public sector? Can you be specific? >>Well, it's years and years of legacy applications that never had any modernization associated with them in public sector. You know now, because you've talked about these procurement, your very best of your very savvy now public sector >>like 1995 >>not for the faint of heart, for sure that when you do procurement over the years when they would do something they wouldn't build in at new innovations or modernizations. So if you think about if you build a data center today a traditional data center, it's outdated. Tomorrow, the same thing with the procurement. By the time that they delivered on those requirements. They were outdated. So technical debt then has been built up years of on years of not modernizing, just kind of maintaining a status quo with no new insides or analytics. You couldn't add any new tooling. So that is where you see agencies like a T F. That has said, Wow, if I'm gonna if I'm gonna have a modern agency that tracks things like forensics understands the machine learning of what's happening in justice and public safety, I need to have the most modern tools. And I can't do that on an outdated system. So that's what we kind of call technical death that just maintains that system without having anything new that you're adding to >>their capabilities lag. Everything's products bad. Okay, great. Thanks for definite. I gotta ask you about something that's near and dear to our heart collaboration. If you look at the big successes in the world and within Amazon Quantum Caltex partnering on the quantum side, you've done a lot of collaboration with Cal Cal Poly for ground station Amazon Educate. You've been very collaborative in your business, and that's a continuing to be a best practice you have now new things like the cloud innovation centers. Talk about that dynamic and how collaboration has become an important part of your business model. >>What we use their own principles from Amazon. We got building things in our plan. Innovation centers. We start out piloting those two to see, Could they work? And it's really a public private partnership between eight MPs and universities, but its universities that really want to do something. And Cal Poly's a great example. Arizona State University A great example. The number one most innovative university in the US for like, four years in a row. And what we do is we go in and we do these public sector challenges. So the collaboration happens. John, between the public sector Entity, university with students and us, and what we bring to the table is technical talent, air technology and our mechanisms and processes, like they're working backwards processes, and they were like, We want you to bring your best and brightest students. Let's bring public sector in the bowl. They bring challenges there, riel that we can take on, and then they can go back and absorb, and they're pretty exciting. I today I talked about we have over 44 today that we've documented were working at Cal Poly. The one in Arizona State University is about smart cities. And then you heard We're announcing new ones. We've got two in France, one in Germany now, one that we're doing on cybersecurity with our mighty in Australia to be sitting bata rain. So you're going to see us Add a lot more of these and we're getting the results out of them. So you know we won't do if we don't like him. But right now we really like these partnerships. >>Results are looking good. What's going on with >>you? All right. And I'll tell you why. That why they're different, where we are taking on riel public sector issues and challenges that are happening, they're not kind of pie in the sky. We might get there because those are good things to do. But what we want to do is let's tackle things that are really homelessness, opioid crisis, human sex trafficking, that we're seeing things that are really in these communities and those air kind of grand. But then we're taking on areas like farming where we talked about Can we get strawberries rotting on the vine out of the field into the market before you lose billions of dollars in California. So it's things like that that were so its challenges that are quick and riel. And the thing about Cloud is you can create an application and solution and test it out very rapidly without high cost of doing that. No technical Dan, >>you mentioned Smart Cities. I just attended a session. Marty Walsh, the mayor of Boston's, got this 50 50 years smart city plan, and it's pretty impressive, but it's a heavy lift. So what do you see going on in smart cities? And you really can't do it without the cloud, which was kind of my big input cloud. Where's the data? What do you say, >>cloud? I O. T is a big part at these. All the centers that Andy talked about yesterday in his keynote and why the five G partnerships are so important. These centers, they're gonna be everywhere, and you don't even know they really exist because they could be everywhere. And if you have the five G capabilities to move those communications really fast and crypt them so you have all the security you need. This is game changing, but I'll give you an example. I'll go back to the kids for a minute at at Arizona State University, they put Io TI centers everywhere. They no traffic patterns. Have any parking slots? Airfield What Utilities of water, if they're trash bins are being filled at number of seats that are being taken up in stadiums. So it's things like that that they're really working to understand. What are the dynamics of their city and traffic flow around that smart city? And then they're adding things on for the students like Alexis skills. Where's all the activity? So you're adding all things like Alexa Abs, which go into a smart city kind of dynamic. We're not shop. Where's the best activities for about books, for about clothes? What's the pizza on sale tonight? So on and then two things like you saw today on Singapore, where they're taking data from all different elements of agencies and presenting that bad to citizen from their child as example Day one of a birth even before, where's all the service is what I do? How do I track these things? How do I navigate my city? to get all those service is the same. One can find this guy things they're not. They're really and they're actually happening. >>Seems like they're instrumented a lot of the components of the city learning from that and then deciding. Okay, where do we double down on where do we place? >>You're making it Every resilient government, a resilient town. I mean, these were the things that citizens can really help take intro Web and have a voice in doing >>threes. I want to say congratulations to your success. I know it's not for the faint of heart in the public sector of these days, a lot of blockers, a lot of politics, a lot of government lockers and the old procurement system technical debt. I mean, Windows 95 is probably still in a bunch of PCs and 50 45 fighters. 15 fighters. Oh, you've got a great job. You've been doing a great job and riding that wave. So congratulations. >>Well, I'll just say it's worth it. It is worth it. We are committed to public sector, and we really want to see everyone from our war fighters. Are citizens have the capabilities they need. So >>you know, you know that we're very passionate this year about going in the 2020 for the Cube and our audience to do a lot more tech for good programming. This'll is something that's near and dear to your heart as well. You have a chance to shape technology. >>Yes, well, today you saw we had a really amazing not for profit on stage with It's called Game Changer. And what we found with not for profits is that technology can be a game changer if they use it because it makes their mission dollars damage further. And they're an amazing father. And send a team that started game changer at. Taylor was in the hospital five years with terminal cancer, and he and his father, through these five years, kind of looked around. Look at all these Children what they need and they started. He is actually still here with us today, and now he's a young adult taking care of other young Children with cancer, using gaming technologies with their partner, twitch and eight MPs and helping analyze and understand what these young affected Children with cancer need, both that personally and academically and the tools he has He's helping really permit office and get back and it's really hard, Warren says. I was happy. My partner, Mike Level, who is my Gran's commercial sales in business, and I ran public Sector Day. We're honored to give them at a small token of our gift from A to B s to help support their efforts. >>Congratulates, We appreciate you coming on the Cube sharing the update on good luck into 2020. Great to see you 10 years at AWS day one. Still, >>it's day one. I feel like I started >>it like still, like 10 o'clock in the morning or like still a day it wasn't like >>I still wake up every day with the jump in my staff and excited about what I'm gonna do. And so I am. You know, I am really excited that we're doing and like Andy and I say we're just scratching the surface. >>You're a fighter. You are charging We love you, Great executive. You're the chief of public. Get a great job. Great, too. Follow you and ride the wave with Amazon and cover. You guys were documenting history. >>Yeah, exactly. We're in happy holidays to you all and help seeing our seventh and 20 >>so much. Okay, Cube coverage here live in Las Vegas. This is the cube coverage. Extracting the signals. Wanna shout out to eight of us? An intel for putting on the two sets without sponsorship, we wouldn't be able to support the mission of the Cube. I want to thank them. And thank you for watching with more after this short break.

(upbeat music) >> Introducer: Live, from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VM Ware, and it's ecosystem partners. Hello and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in San Francisco, from VMworld 2019. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Dave Vellante. Dave, 10 years of theCUBE, covering VMworld. A lot's changed, a lot's happening, 10 more years. Two great guests here from Veeam. Carey Stanton is VP of Global Alliances and Ken Ringdahl who is the VP of Global Alliance Architecture. Both with Veeam. Love the green. >> Good to see you gents. >> Epic party last night. You guys are known for the legendary party. >> Yes. Andy Rammer? Did you? It was great. We had 2,500 people waving, shouting. Yeah it was great. >> So welcome back to theCUBE. So what's the news for you guys? You're always popping some news out. What's going on here for you guys at VMworld 2019? Top story. >> Top story for us I think is continuation of what we're doing with VMware on VMC and AWS, you know we continue to be the number one data protection workload on VSAN, working with them on their new marketplace as a design partner that they just launched this week as well, so I would say that we are always everything to VMware and then we just continue to ratch it up with continuing to grow out their ACF platform with VSAN and the new marketplace which is their VCPP, which is a big part of our business. >> And the cloud's certainly a big part of the equation for VMware this year. I mean you've seen the announce cloud native support, kubernetes on Vsphere, so they're starting to get their software mojo down on trying to build that next generation platform. You guys are kind of there with your solution. What's the big takeaway technically that's going on that customers should care about in your mind Ken? What do you think? >> Yeah, you know. Certainly this, is a big push towards Cloud I think. You know as Ratmir our co-founder would tell you, "hey, we track VMware." So when VMware started on print we would track along, they've now moved into the public cloud, and we're following along there, so whether it's VMC and AWS, the new relationships with Azure and Google, you know, goodness for us because we provide inherent support there. But you know some of the next generation things, a lot of news about project Pacific, and kubernetes, and next generation cloud native applications and, yeah we're here to support our customers, you know we're looking at all the new things that are there, we've done a lot of things recently about adopting object storage for cloud storage, etc. A lot of things we're doing from a product and technology perspective. >> So Pat Gelsinger, on theCUBE one time said, "If you don't ride the waves you're going to become driftwood." You guys have always been wave riders. When you see something like the project Pacific, what does that mean to you? How do you respond to that? Do you talk to customers? Do you sort of huddle internally and start designing? >> We do. We certainly take a lot of feedback, you know as we all know in tech, there's a lot of things that come and go, some of these things are great ideas, and at VM where you can look at vCloud Air right? You know, it was great momentum for a while and VMware made a very good pivot right? They understood that, we shouldn't compete in the space, we should partner in this space, and so we do the same thing, we look at when we're evaluating new technologies, kubernetes, etc., I mean I think at this point we know kubernetes is here to stay right? That's not a fad. It's very clear, the adoption is clear, so we're evaluating how we participate there. Our customers are largely, on-prem customers but moving to the cloud it's a real hybrid story, and so when we go in and implement our support and look at how we're going to integrate that, it's all about how we help our customers in that world. So when you see a new trend you say what, "We can protect that." Right? It's anything, everything needs to be protected. How do you think about protecting containers? Yeah so we look at it and say, hey look, the way that containers are delivered it's inside of a system regardless so, sometimes it's inside a VM, sometimes it's within a physical system. We can protect what support's there and we're looking at how can we help customers today. A lot of customers are moving their workloads. Similar to when server virtualization came up, it was a little bit of a lift in shift right, I'm going to take what was working on physical, move it to virtual. A lot of customers today are moving what they have in legacy apps and they're just putting 'em into containers just to get there, and then they're building new applications, they're moving in a more stateless fashion. We can support the customers today when they move to a stateful system. And we're evaluation how we support more the stateful longterm view of kubernetes. >> But Carey so you obviously know VMware very well. Yes sir. I've spent some time there. When you think about how the ecosystem's evolving, VMware now is a networking company, they're a storage company, obviously they compute, but they haven't sort of aimed the cannon at data protection, they've left that to the eco system. Your thoughts on how the ecosystem is evolving, your relationship with VMware, and the broader. >> Yeah I think it's not dissimilar to, if we just pick vSAN, storage, primary workload, they don't play in the secondary storage, and they allow their customers to work with reference architectures that we create to say which data protection partner would you like to have. We're fortunate to be number one, if you look at HBE, right, again, they have a lot of partners, we're number one with them, NetApp, Cisco and the like, so you know, VMware's not any dissimilar, so we're fortunate to have that Tier 1 relationship with them that they're looking to us as serving their customers. And then we also have a very close working relationship with them on the engineering side to ensure that we're always protecting their customers, and we have lots of other great meetings this week and lots of other things to be announced in the weeks ahead with working with them and their customers so we're very excited on what they're doing in that space and how we can solve their customers. >> That's interesting. None of the big platform players really have attacked ever, historically, back up, I mean I guess IBM kind of, but that's for different reasons. They'd probably say, "Okay, we've replicated, we're good." Why do you think that is? Is this cause it's so hard? You guys as an industry are that far ahead of the functionality? It's a tough business? >> Well I think it's.. It's big, it's a large business I think it is. It's a 6+ billion dollar town. I think that it's also a legacy. I mean if you look at where Veeam came in and we were disrupters when VMware was it and doing the virtualization, we were disrupting the legacy players without saying all the names what we did, and I believe that with the two decade plus world the data protection has been in, and the evolution, that it would take a lot of work on their part to want to come in and say that they're going to get into that space and try and have a solution that is as credible as Veeam is in the marketplace. So again we're fortunate, we stay very close with them and you know we continue to see them as one of our Tier 1 partners as well. >> Talk about the integration aspect because you're Tier 1, you guys are number 1 recommended with these guys, relationship's strong, integration's are key, for you guys and with VMware but also as customers, look at the Cloud 2.0 world, and you guys are following VMware with multi-Cloud, you guys can play everywhere. You're going to be integrating a lot, so that has to be a core competence for you guys. Can you just talk about, how you guys view your integration with VMware and then, from a customer standpoint, why is it important? >> I'll take the first crack and then pass it Ken, but if you look at two years ago with VMC on AWS when they made those announcements, we were a design partner in, and then they started to evolve that and doing those pilot, we're starting to see those pilots turn into large enterprises deployments. You hear Pat and Sanjay talking about the evolution that they're having and we're seeing the result of that, the customer's saying, "I need what was using on-pram." And that's moving to the Cloud and it just works, the Veeam slogan, it just works. So we're seeing a lot of those deployments for customers taking those enterprise solutions that they had on AWS and scaling them out, and we're going to continue to do that across all of, you know, what Ken was just talking about kubernetes, the Pacific project and others that were.. Again, we're at the table working with them, but I don't think that Veeam is going to stay away, we're only going to get closer as go into new technologies. >> You have to and the tech's getting better too. >> Yeah, what I'll say also is, Veeam, when you look at the data protection landscape we're a pure play ISV. That actually makes us pretty unique because all of our competitors either sell their software on a piece of hardware, or it's at least an option. We have no Veeam whitebox option that you'll see a Veeam label on it, and it really resonates with out partners. We're totally non-competitive, or non-overlapping with our partners and so, they welcome us with open arms as a result of that, and it really helps us drive in. But the integrations are critical and just to quickly make a comment about the last question about sort of the point solutions and why doesn't the big platform players. I'll give you two examples, two public Cloud examples: Azure and AWS, the two primary hyperscale Cloud vendors. They both have backup solutions, AWS has site recovery, sorry, Azure has site recovery, AWS come out with AWS backup. About a year ago they announced that at Reinvent. They need that for point solutions for customers that are looking for a checkbox. Customers, really that more the developer that just needs the base level protection. But they partner with folks like ourselves, for the broader support, for the hybrid support, because silicon angle right? I just read an article yesterday, or two days ago on silicon angle. It's a hybrid cloud world. You guys, talking all about it. That's where our strength is and that's why we have these partners coming to us. You know they build point solutions on their own, again for that checkbox, we're not checkbox, we're deep integrations, we're hybrid cloud, portability, flexibility, reliability. >> And that's smart of the cloud guys to do that because some people want end to end or compliance reasons they have to use the cloud's solution, or it's a requirement, but look at Cloud Trail, and data job's going public. You got New Relic. You got these companies that are winning in adding value with their products through leadership. Not necessarily. Amazon's got a solution out there but they're not really, going down that road. >> And John, and what I would say is also they see, the number of customers and the size of the petabytes that we're driving on the respective clouds, again back to Ken's point on AWS and Azure, I mean that business for us is growing 30 to 35%, month over month, and so they understand the number of customers, and they see that this is a hybrid play, the customers tiering off data to the cloud, but their primary workload is on-prem >> That will give you more EC2 cycles. I mean, crank up the EC2 baby. >> And they know that we're coming out with cloud native solutions as well so, I mean we're doing all the heavy RD investment, solving their customer problems, so again reason number 452 as to why they would want to go in and be disrupted to that? >> As you guys do these integrations, a lot of cloud action, you got VMC on AWS, Cloud Tier with AWS and Azure, you have a bunch of stuff going on with VMware solutions with Cloud Simple. As you work in this multi-cloud world, how are you changing your licensing and pricing models to adapt? Yeah a think Ratmir and Danny were on this week and talking about instances, so we're moving the portability of the license no longer, making the customer have to make a hard decision on the day of licensing with Veeam, is we're saying, hey, the license, it's an instance, it's on-prem, it's an instance in the cloud, you determine what's right for your business and move those licenses. So we were the first to really make that giant leap and we're going to continue to evolve that solution and make it even easier for them to do that, and then another thing that Veeam is there's no tax, we don't charge the customer any money if you want to move those data environments up into the public cloud, and again that's Veeam differentiating as it were, that customer company. We're always focused on what's right for the customer, from the product, right down to the licensing model. Yeah you're tag line is it just works. And I don't know it that's the tag line but that's what customers always say. >> It was for many years. And it's more than just a product, it's the business model. You guys have always been, pretty innovative in that regard. And especially with partners, you and I have talked about this in terms of how you make a transparent for the partner, for the sales reps. On the partner's side, to not care, whether it's they're selling on-prem or if it's a cloud solution. >> And it's been well received as you know we have global resell agreement with the Cisco's and HP's and NetApp's of the world and they're very appreciate to the way that we make it easy for them to sell to their customers and allow them to have that portability of the licenses. >> It's been great following you guys and your events, and getting to see you guys be successful, the product does the talking, and the customers are the references. I mean they vote with their wallets. You know and you guys are a Tier 1 partner. Congratulations. >> Yeah. Thank you very much. >> Final question for you, is the event successful in your mind for you guys? What do you think is happening here? What's the top story coming out of the event overall for the folks that didn't make it here? >> So, first and foremost, huge success, we're 100% back here next year trying to make it even bigger, and I would say that what's coming out of it is just the, the success that our customers show by coming to our booth and showing us that they're looking to keep with Veeam on the journey as they go with VMware. And Ken touches on kubernetes and look at all the new solutions, and so we have an overwhelming support to customers saying, "Hey, I've been with you for the last decade, I want to be with you on the journey." And so that's, we've hear that over and over again this week so very strong. >> Yeah, I think I'll second what Carey said and maybe I'll give you a broader picture. I mean if you look at what VMware's done over the last 12 to 15 months. Last year at VMworld they announced the Cloud Health acquisition, they acquired Security Company, Pivotal, you know they're really broading and they're seeing that hey look, it's not just about on-prem server virtualization, we need to have a very broad story. We need to be relevant in the public cloud, we need to provide some management and multi-cloud capabilities. We're doing the same, but I think VMware is clearly in a period of transition and figuring out.. You know I think VMC and AWS is a great step. You know having the CloudSimple relationship and virtustream for Azure, you know runnig VMware, and Azure, and Google, but I think you'll continue to see that evolve and I think they've put the breadcrumbs down so that as we go forward here in the coming months, weeks, and next year when we're here at VMworld, you'll see that continue. >> And it's certainly a great growth in terms of infrastructure's, code. You're starting to see the Enterprise Cloud start to stand up a little bit. Hybrid cloud's got visibility. It's not as easy as leaving stuff in the cloud, getting the enterprise to work, you guys know that first hand. And Congratulations. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Thank you very much. Appreciate it >> VMworld 2019 CUBE coverage. Here live in San Francisco, I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante. We'll be back with more after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation. >> Welcome to this cube competition here at the Palo Alto Cube Studios. I'm John for a host of the Cube. Were here a special guests to keep alumni investor An entrepreneur who do Sudhakar, would you Good to see you again, John. Always a pleasure. You've been on as an entrepreneur, founder. As an investor, you're always out. Scour in the Valley was a great conversation. I want to get your thoughts as kind of a guest analyst on this segment around the state of the Union for Enterprise Tech. As you know, we covering the price tag. We got all the top enterprise B to B events. The world has changed and get reinvent coming up. We got VM World before that. The two big shows, too to cap out this year got sprung a variety of other events as well. So a lot of action cloud now is pretty much a done deal. Everyone's validating it. Micro cells gaining share a lot of growth areas around cloud that's been enable I want to get your thoughts first. Question is what are the top growth sectors in the enterprise that you're seeing >> papers. Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure talking to you over the years. You and me have done this so many times. I'm learning a lot from you. So thank you. You are so yeah, I think Let's dig into the cloud side and in general market. So I think that there are 34 areas that I see a lot that's happening a lot. Cloud is still growing, a lot 100% are more growth and cloud and dog breeders. And what is the second? I see, a lot of I T services are close services. This includes service management. The areas that service now isn't They're >> still my ops was Maybe >> they opt in that category. E I said With management, the gutter is coming with the new canticle a service management. So they're replacing idea some with a different. So that's growing 800% as a category tourist. RP according to again, the industry analysts have seen that it's going at 65 to 70% so these three areas are going a lot in the last one that I see a lot of user experience. Can you build? It's like it's a 20,000,000,000 market cap, something. So if you let it out, it's a cloud service Management services RP user experience cos these are the four areas I see a lot dating all the oxygen rest. Everybody is like the bread crumbs. >> Okay, and why do you think the growth in our P A. So how's the hype? Is it really what? What is going on in our pee, In your opinion, >> on the rumors I'm hearing or there is some companies are already 1,000,000,000 revenue run great wise. That's a lot in our piece. So it's not really a hype that really so that if you look and below that, what's happening is I'd be a Companies are automating automation. The key for here is if I can improve the user experience and also automate things. RPS started doing screen scraping right in their leaders, looking at any reservations supply chain any workflow automation. So every company is so complex. Now somebody has to automate the workflow. How can you do this with less number of people, less number, resources, and improve the productivity >> coming? R P A. Is you know, robotic process automation is what it stands for, but ultimately it's software automation. I mean, it's software meets cloud meets automation. It seems to be the big thing. That's also where a I can play a part. Your take on the A I market right now. Obviously, Cloud and A I are probably the two biggest I think category people tend to talk about cloud and a eyes kind of a big kind of territories. RPG could fall under a little bit of bulls, but what you take on a guy, >> Yeah, so I think if you look at our pier, I actually call the traditional appears to be historical legacy. Wonders and R P companies are doing a good job to transform themselves to the next level, right? But our pianist Rocky I score. It's no longer the screen skipping tradition, making the workflow understanding. So there are new technology called conversational Rp. There's actually a separate market. Guys been critical conversation within a Can I talk to in a dialogue manner like what you experienced Instagram are what using what's up our dialogue flow? How can I make it? A conversational RPS is a new secretary is evolving it, but our becomes have done a good job. They leave all their going out. A >> lot has been has great success. We've been covering them like a blanket on a single cube. Um, I got it. I got to get your take on how this all comes into the next generation modern era because, um, you know, we're both been around the block. We've seen the waves of innovation. The modern error of clouds certainly cloud one Dato Amazon. Now Microsoft has your phone. Google anywhere else really goes. Dev Ops, The devil's movement cloud native amazing, create a lot of value continues to do well, but now there's a big culture on cloud 2.0, what is your definition of cloud two point? Oh, how do you see Cloud 2.0, evolving. But >> I like the name close to party. I think it's your third. It is going to continue as a trained. So look, throw two point with eyes. I don't know what it will be, but I can tell you what it should be and what it can have. Some other things that should do in the cloud is cloud is still very much gun to human beings. Lot of develops people. Lot of human being The next addition to a daughter should have things done programmatically I don't need tens of thousands off Assad ease and develops people. So back to your air, upside and everything. Some of those things should become close to become proactive. I don't want to wait until Amazon. Easter too is done. If I'm paying him is on this money. Amazon should be notifying me when my service is going to be done. The subsidy eaters They operated Chlo Trail Cloudwatch Exeter. But they need to take it to a notch level. But Amazon Azure. >> So making the experience of deploying, running and building APS scalable. Actually, that's scales with Clavet. Programmable kind of brings in the RPI a mean making a boat through automation edge of the network is also interesting. Comes up a lot like Okay, how do you deal with networking? Amazons Done computing storage and meet amazing. Well, cloud and networking has been built in, I guess to me, the trend of networking kicks in big because now it's like, OK, if you have no perimeter, you have a service area with I o t. >> There's nothing that >> cloud to point. It has to address riel time programming ability. Things like kubernetes continues to rise. You're gonna need to have service has taken up and down automatically know humans. So this >> is about people keep on fur cloak. What should be done before the human in the to rate still done. It develops. People are still using terror from lot of scripting. Lot of manual. Can you automata? That's one angle The second angle I see in cloud 2.0 is if you step back and say What, exactly? The intrinsic properties of Claude Majors. It's the work floor. It's automation, but it's also able to do it. Pro, actually. So what I don't have to raise if I'm playing club renders this much money. Tell me what outrageous are happening. Don't wait until outage happens. Can you predict voted? Yes, they have the capability to women. It should be Probably steal it. No, not 100%. So I want to know what age prediction. I wonder what service are going down. Are notified the user's that will become a a common denominator and solutions will be start providing, even though you see small startups doing this. Eventually they become features all these companies, and they'll get absorbed by the I called his aircraft carriers. You have Masson agile DCP. They're going to absorb all this, a ups to the point that provide that as the functionality. >> Yeah, let's get the consolidation in second. I want to get your thoughts on the cloud to point because we really getting at is that there's a lot of white space opportunity coming in. So I gotta ask you to start up. Question as you look at your investor, prolific investor in start ups. Also, you're an entrepreneur yourself. What >> is? >> They have opportunities out there because we'll get into the big the big whales Amazon, who were building and winning at scale. So embarrassed entry or higher every day, even though it's open sources, They're Amazons, betting on open source. Big time. We had John Thompson talk about that. That was excessive. Something Nutella. And so what? What if I was a printer out there? Would what do I do? I mean, is there Is there any real territory that I could create a base camp on and make money? >> That's plenty. So there's plenty of white faces to create. Look, first of all your look at what's catering, look at what's happening. IBM is auto business in service management, CSL itself to Broadcom. BMC is sold twice to private companies. Even the CEO got has left our war It is. Then you have to be soldiers of the Micro Focus. The only company that's left is so it's not so in that area, you can create plenty of good opportunities. That's a big weight. >> Sensors now just had a bad quarter. So actually, clarity will >> eventually they're gonna enough companies to go in that space. That play that's based can support 23 opportunities so I can see a publicly traded company in service. No space in next five years. My production is they'll be under company will go a p o in the service management space. Same things would happen. Rp, Rp vendors won't get acquired A little cleared enough work for automation. They become the next day because of the good. I can see a next publicly traded company. What happened in the 80 operations? Patriotism Probably. Computer company Pedro is doing really well. Watch it later. Don't. They're going to go public next. So that area also, you see plenty of open record companies in a UPS. >> So this is again back to the growth areas. Cloud hard to compete on Public Cloud. Yes, the big guys are out there. There's a cloud enablers, the people who don't have the clouds. So h p tried to do a cloud hp They had to come out, they'll try to cloud couldn't do It s a P technically is out there with a cloud. They're trying to be multi cloud. So you have a series of people who made it an oracle still on the fence. They still technically got a cloud, but it's really more Oracle and Oracle. So they're kind of stuck in the middle between the cloud and able nervous. The Cloud player. If you're not a cloud player large enterprise, what is the strategy? Because you got HP, IBM, Cisco and Dell. >> So I don't know. You didn't include its sales force in that If I'm Salesforce, I want sales force to get in. They have a sales cloud marketing cloud commerce code. Mark is not doing anything in the area of fighting clothes. They cannot go from 100,000,000,000 toe, half a trillion trillion market cap. Told I D. They have to embrace that and that's 100% growth area. You know, people get into this game at some point. It'll be is already hard and 50,000,000,000 market cap. Then that leaves. What is this going to do? Cisco has been buying more security software assets, but they don't wanna be a public company, their hybrid club. But they have to figure out How can they become an arms dealer in escape and by ruining different properties off close services? And that's gonna happen. And I've been really good job by acquiring Red Heart. So I think some place really figuring out this what is happening. But they have to get in the gaming club they have to do. Other service management have begun and are here. They have to get experience. None of these guys have experienced in this day and age that you killed and who are joining the workforce. They care for Airbnb naked for we work. They care for uber. They care for Netflix. It is not betting unders. So if I'm on the border, Francisco, I'm not talking about experience That's a problem to me. Hey, tree boredom is not talking about that. That's what if I'm I know Mark is on the board. Paramount reason. But Mark is investing in all the slack. Cos then why is it we are doing it either hit special? Get a separate board member. They should get somebody else. >> Why? He wouldn't tell. You have to move. Maybe. I don't know. We don't talk about injuries about that. But I want to get back to this experience thing because experience has become the new expectation. Yes, that's been kind of a design principle kind of ethos. Okay, so let's take that. The next little younger generation, they're consuming Airbnb. They're using the serious like their news and little chunks be built a video service for that. So things are changing. What is? I tease virgin as the consumption is a product issue. So how does I t cater to these new experience? What are some of those experiences? I >> think all of them. But I think I d for Social Kedrick, every property, every product should figure out how to offer to the young dreamers how they were contributed offer to the businesses on the B two baby to see. So the eye has to think every product or not. Should I start thinking about how my user should consume this and how should out for new experiences and how they want to see this in a new way, right? It's not in the same the same computer networking. How can a deluded proactively How can a dealer to a point where people can consume it and make other medications so darn edition making? That's where the air comes in. Don't wait for me toe. Ask the question. Suggest it's like Gmail auto complete. Every future should be thinking through problem. Still, what can I do to improve the experience that changes the product? Management's on? And that's what I'm looking at, companies who are thinking like that connection and see Adam Connection security. But that has to happen in the product. >> I was mentioning the people who didn't have clouds HP, IBM, Cisco and Dell you through sales force in there, I kind of would think sales were six, which is technically a cloud. They were cloud before cloud was even cloud. They built basically oracle for the cloud that became sales force. But you mentioned service now. Sales force. You got adobe, You got work day. These are application clouds. So they're not public clouds per se they get Amazon Web service is, you know, at Adobe runs on AWS, right? A lot of other people do. Microsoft has their own cloud, but they also have applications as well. Office 3 65 So what if some of these niche cloud these application clouds have to do differently? Because if you think about sales force, you mentioned a good point. Why isn't sales were doing more? People generally don't like Salesforce. You think that it's more of a lock inspect lesson with a wow. They've done really innovative things. I mean, I don't People don't really tend to talk about sales force in the same breath as innovation. They talk about Well, we run sales for us. We hate it or we use it and they never really break into these other markets. What's your take on them? >> I think Mark has done a good job to order. Yes, acquiring very cos it has to start from the top and at the market. His management team should say, I want to get in a new space. He got in tow. Commerce. Claudia got into marketing. He has to know, decide to get into idea or not. Once he comes out, he's really taken because today, science. What is below the market cap? Com Part of it'll be all right. If I am sales force, I need to go back down. Should I go after service? No. Industry should go after entire 80 services industry. Yes or no, But they have to make a suggestion. Something with Toby Toby is not gonna be any slower. They will get into. I decide. They're already doing the eyesight and experience. They're king of experience. Their king off what they're doing. Marketing site. They will expand. Writing. >> What does something We'll just launched a platform. Yes, that's right. The former executive from IBM. That's an interesting direction. They all have these platforms. Okay, so I got together to the Microsoft Amazon, Um, Google, the big clouds and then everybody else. A lot of discussion around consolidation. A lot of people say that the recession's coming next year. I doubt that. No, nos. The consolidation continues to happen. You can almost predict that. But where do you see the consolidation of you got some growth areas as you laid out cloud I t service is our p a experience based off where looks like where's the consolidation happening? If growth is happening, they're words to tell. >> It was happening. Really Like I see a lot in cyber security. I'm in Costa Rica, live in public. You have the scaler, the whole bunch of companies. So the next level of cos you always saw Sisko Bart, do your security followed has been buying aggressively companies. So secret is already going to a lot of consolidation. You're not seeing other people taking it, but in the I T services industry, you'll start seeing that you're already seeing that in the community space. That game is pretty much over right. Even the ember barred companies, even Net are barred companies and the currency. So I think console is always going to happen. People are picking up the right time. It's happening across the board. It's a great time to be an entrepreneur creator value. They come this public. So it's like I think it's cannot anymore very time. Look to your point where the decision happens or not. Nobody can predict. But if a chance now, it's best time to raise money. Build a company. >> Well, we do. I think the analysis, at least from my perspective, is looking at all the events we go to is the same theme comes up over and over. And Andy Jassy this heat of a tigress always talks about Old Garden new Guard. I think there's two sides of the streets developing old way in a new way, and I think the modern architect of the modern era of computer industry is coming, and it looks a lot different than it. Waas. So I think the consolidate is happening on those companies that didn't make the right bets, either technically or business model wise, for they took on too much technical debt and could not convert over to the cloud world or these really robust software environment. So I think consolidations from just just the passing of holder >> seems pretty set up for a member of the first men. First Main Computing was called mainframe Era, then, with clients Herrera and Kim, the club sodas 6 2009 13 years old, the new Errol called. Whatever the name, it will be something with a n mission in India that things would be so automated. That's what we have new area of computing, So that's I would like to see. So that's a new trick, this vendetta near turn. So even though we go through this >> chance all software software sales data 11. Yeah, it's interesting. And I think the opportunity, for starters is to build a new brands. His new branch would come out. Let's take an example of a company that but after our old incumbent space dying market share not not very attractive from a VC standpoint. From market space standpoint, Zoom Zoom went after Web conferencing, and they took on WebEx and portability. And they did it with a very simple formula. Be fast, be cloud native and go after that big market and just beat them on speed and simple >> experience. They give your greatest experience just on the Web, conferencing it and better than sky better than their backs better than anybody else in that market. Paid them with reward. Thanks, Vic. He had a good >> guy and he's very focused. He used clouds. Scale took the value proposition of WebEx. Get rid of all the other stuff brought its simple to video conference. And Dr Mantra is one >> happening. The A applying to air for 87 management. A ops A customer surveys. >> So this is what our Spurs could do. They can target big markets debt and go directly at either a specific differentiation. Whether it's experience or just a better mouse trap in this case could win, >> right? And one more thing we didn't talk about is where their underpants go after is the area number. Many of these abs are still enterprise abs. Nobody really focused on moving this enterprise after the club. Hollis Clubbers are still struggling with the thing. How can I move my workload number 10%. We're closing the club 90% still on track. So somebody needs to figure out how to migrate these clouds to the cloud really seamlessly. The Alps are gonna be born in the cloud club near the apse. So how do you address truckload in here? So there's enough opportunity to go after enterprise applications clouded your application. Yeah, >> I mean, I do buy the argument that they will still be on premises activity, but to your point will be stealing massive migration to the cloud either sunsetting absent being born the cloud or moving them over on Prem All in >> all the desert I keep telling the entree and follow the money. When there is a thing you look for it Is there a big market? Are people catering there? If people are dying and the old guard is there to your point and is that the new are you? God will happen. And if you can bet on the new guard in your experience, market will reward you. >> Where is the money? Follow the money. Worse. What do we follow? Show me where it is. Tell me where it is >> That all of the clothes, What is the big I mean, if you're not >> making money in the club for the cloud, you are a fool right now. If there any company on making out making in the club as a CEO, a board member, you need to think through it. Second automation whether you go r p a IittIe automation here to make money on, said his management. Whether it's from customer service to support the operation, you got to take the car. Start off it if you are Jesse ever today and you're not making birds that cementing. I see it mostly is that still don't want to take it back. They want to build empires. The message to see what's right, Nice. Either you do it or get out. Get the job to somebody that >> I hold a lot of sea cells and prayer. Preparing for reinforce Amazon's new security cloud security conference and overwhelmingly response from the sea. So's chief security officer is we are building stacks internally. When I asked him about multi cloud, you know what they said? Multi cloud is B s. I said, Why? Because Well, we have a secondary cloud, but I don't want to fork my development team. I want to keep my people focused on one cloud. It's Amazon. Go Amazon. It's azure. We stay with Azure. I don't wanna have three development teams. So this a trend to keep the stack building internally. That means they're investing in building their own text. Axe your thoughts on that >> look, I mean, that's again. There's no one size fits all. There will be some CEOs who want to have three different silos. Some people have a hard, gentle stack like I've seen companies. Right now. They write, the court wants it, compiles, and it's got an altar cloth. That's a new irritability you're not. We locate a stack for each of them. You're right. The court order to users and NATO service is but using the same court base. That's the whole The new startups are building it. If somebody's writing it like this, that's all we have. Thing is the CEO. So there's that. The news he always have to think through. How can you do? One court works on our clothes? >> Great. You do. Thank you for coming on again. Always great to get your commentary. I learned a lot from you as well. Appreciate it. I gotta ask the final question as you go around the VC circles. You don't need to mention any names you can if you want, but I want to get a taste of the market size of rounds, Seed Round A and B. What are hot rounds? What sizes of Siri's am seeing? Maur? No. 10,000,000? 15,000,000? Siri's >> A. >> Um >> Siri's bees are always harder to get than Siri's. A seeds. I always kind of easier. What's your take on the hot rounds that are hot right now. And what's the sizes of the >> very good question? So I'm in the series the most easy one, right? Your concept. But the seed sizes went up from 200 K to know mostly drones are 1,000,000 2 1,000,000 Most city says no oneto $10,000,000. So if you're a citizen calmly, you're not getting 10 to 15. Something's wrong because that become the norm because there's more easy money. It also helps entrepreneurs. You don't have to look for money. See, this beast are becoming $2025 $5,000,000 pounds, Siri sees. If you don't raise a $50,000,000 then that means you're in good company. So the minimum amount of dries 50,000,000 and CDC Then after that, you're really looking for expansions. $100,000,000 except >> you have private equity or secondary mortgage >> keys, market valuations, all the rent. So I tell entrepreneurs when there is an opportunity, if you have something, you can command the price. So if you're doing a serious be a $20,000,000 you should be commanding $100,000,000.150,000,000 dollars, 2,000,000 evaluations right if you're not other guys are getting that you're giving too much of your company, so you need to think through all of that. >> So serious bees at 100,000,000 >> good companies are much higher than that. That'll be 1 52 100 And again, this is a buyer's market. The underpinnings market. So he says, more money in the cash. Good players they're putting. Whether you have 1,000,000 revenue of 5,000,000 revenue, 10,000,000 series is the most hardest, but its commanding good premium >> good time to be in our prayers were with bubble. Always burst when it's a bite, mark it on the >> big money. Always start a company >> when the market busts. That's always my philosophy. Voodoo. Thanks for coming. I appreciate your insight. Always as usual. Great stuff way Do Sudhakar here on the Q investor friend of the Cube Entrepreneur, I'm John for your Thanks >> for watching. Thank you.

>> Announcer: From Boston, Massachusetts it's The Cube. Covering AWS re:Inforce 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. This is The Cube's live coverage of AWS re:Inforce in Boston, Massachusetts. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vallante. This is re:Inforce. This is the inaugural conference for AWS on the security and Cloud security market. A new category being formed from an events standpoint around Cloud security. Our next guest is Cube alumni guest analyst Corey Quinn, and Cloud Economist with the Duckbill Group. Good to see you again. Great to have you on. Love to have you come back, because you're out in the hallways. You're out getting all the data and bringing it back and reporting. But this event, unlike the other ones, you had great commentary and analysis on. You were mentioned onstage during the Keynote from Stephen Smith. Congratulations. >> Thank you. I'm still not quite sure who is getting fired over that one, but somehow it happened, and I didn't know it was coming. It was incredibly flattering to have that happen, but it was first "Huh, awesome, he knows who I am." Followed quickly by "Oh dear, he knows who I am." And it, at this point, I'm not quite sure what to make of that. We'll see. >> It's good news, it's good business. All press is good press as they say, but let's get down to it. Obviously, it's a security conference. This is the inaugural event. We always love to go to inaugural events because, in case there's no second event, we were there - >> Corey: Oh yes >> for one event. So, that's always the case. >> Corey: Been there since the beginning is often great bragging rights. And if there isn't a second one, well, you don't need to bring it up ever again. So, they've already announced there's another one coming to Houston next year. So that'll be entertaining. >> So a lot of people were saying to us re:Inforce security event, some skepticism, some bullish on the sector. obviously, Cloud is hot. But the commentary was, oh, no one's really going to be there. It's going to be more of an educational event. So, yeah, it's more of an educational event for sure. That they're talking about stuff that they can't have time to do and reinvent. But there's a lot of investment going on there. There are players here from the companies. McAfee, you name the big name companies here, they're sending real people. A lot of biz dev folks trying to understand how to build up the sector. A lot of technical technologists here, as well. Digging in to some of the deep conversations. Do you agree? What's your thoughts of the event? >> I'm surprised, I was expecting this to be a whole bunch of people trying to sell things to other people, who were trying to sell them things in return, and it's not. There are, there are people who are using the Cloud for interesting things walking around. And that's fantastic. One thing that's always struck me as being sort of strange, and why I guess I feel sort of spiritually aligned here if nothing else. Is cost and security are always going to be trailing functions. No company is excited to invest in those things, until immediately after they really should have been investing in those things and weren't. So with time to market, velocity are always going to be something much valuable and important to any company strategically. But, we're seeing people start to get ahead of the curve in some ways. And that's, it's refreshing and frankly surprising. >> What is the top story in your mind? Top three stories coming out of re:Inforce. From industry standpoint, or from a product standpoint, that you think need to be told or amplified, or not being told, be told? >> Well there's been the stuff that we've seen on the stage and that's terrific. And, I think that you've probably rehashed those a fair bit with other guests. For me, what I'm seeing, the story that resonates as I walk around the Expo Hall here. Is we're seeing a bunch of companies that have deep roots in data centered environments. And now they're trying to come up with stories that resonate with Cloud. And if they don't, this is a transformational moment. They're going to effectively, likely find themselves in decline. But, they're not differentiating themselves from one another particularly well. There are a few very key things that we're seeing people operate within. Such as, with the new port mirroring stuff coming out of NVPC Traffics. You're right. You have a bunch of companies that are able to consume those, or flow logs. If you want to go back in time a little bit, and spit out analysis on this. But you're not seeing a lot of differentiation around this. Or, Hey we'll take all your security events and spit out the useful things. Okay, that is valuable, and you need to be able to do that. How many vendors do you need in one company doing the exact same thing? >> You know, we had a lot of sites CSO's on here and practitioners. And one of the comments on that point is Yeah, he's like, "Look I don't need more alerts." "I need things fixed." "Don't just tell me what's going on, fix it." So the automation story is also a pretty big one. The VCP traffic mirror, I think, is going to be just great for analytics. Great for just for getting that data out. But what does it actually impact In the automation piece? And the, okay there's an alert. Pay attention to it or ignore it. Or fix it. Seems to be kind of the next level conversation. Your thoughts around that piece. >> I think that as we take a look at the space and we see companies continuing to look at things like auto remediation. Automation's terrific, until the first time it does something you didn't want it to do and takes something down. At which point no one trusts it ever again. And that becomes something hard to tend to. I also think we're starting to see a bit of a new chapter as alliance with this from AWS and it's relationship with partners. I mean historically you would look at re:Invent, and you're sitting in the Expo Hall and watching the keynote. And it feels like it's AWS Red Wedding. Where, you're trying to see who's about to get killed by a feature that just comes out. And now were seeing that they've largely left aspects of the security space alone. They've had VPC flow logs for a long time, but sorting through those yourself was always like straining raw sewage with your teeth. You had to find a partner solution or build something yourself out of open source tooling from spit and duct tape. There's never been a great tool there. And it almost feels like they're leaving that area, for example, alone. And leaving that as an area rife for partners. Now how do you partner with something like AWS? That's a hard question to answer. >> So one of the other things we've heard from practitioners is they don't want incrementalism. They're kind of sick of that. They want step functions, that do as John said, remediate. >> Corey: Yeah. So, like you say, you called it the Red Wedding at the main stage. What does a partner have to do to stay viable in this ecosystem? >> Historically, the answer to that has always been to continue innovating ahead of the bow wave of AWS's own innovation. The problem is you see that slide that they put on in every event, that everyone who doesn't work at AWS sees. That shows the geometric increase in number of feature and service releases. And we all feel this sinking sensation of not even the partner side. But, they're releasing so much that I know some of that is going to fix things for my company, but I'll never hear it. Because it's drowned in the sheer volume of what they're releasing. AWS is rapidly increasing their pace of innovation to the point where companies that are not able to at least match that are going to be in for a bad time. As they find themselves outpaced by the vendor they're partnering with. >> And you heard Liberty Mutual say their number one challenge was actually the pace of Cloud. Being able to absorb all these new features >> Yes. >> And so, you mentioned the partner ecosystem. I mean, so it's not just the partners. It's the customers as well. That bow is coming faster than they can move. >> Absolutely. I can sit here now and talk very convincingly about services that don't exist. And not get called out on them by an AWS employee who happens to be sitting here. Because no one person can have all of this in their head anymore. It's outpaced most people's ability to wrap their heads around that and contextualize it. So people specialize, people focus. And, I think, to some extent that might be an aspect of why we're seeing re:Inforce as its own conference. >> So we talked a lot of CSO's this trip. >> Yeah. >> John: A lot of one on ones. We had some interviews. Some private meetings. I'm going to read you a list of key areas that they brought up as concern. I want to get you're reaction to. >> Sure. >> You pick the ones out you think are very relevant. >> Sure. >> Speedily, very fast. Vendor lock in. Spend. >> Not concerned. Yep. Security Native. >> Yeah. >> Service provider supplier relationship. Metrics, cloud securities, different integration, identity, automation, work force talent, coding security, and the human equation. There were all kind of key areas that seemed to glob and be categorically formed. Your thoughts to those. Which ones do you think jump out as criticalities on the market? >> Sure. I think right now people talking about lock in are basically wasting their time and spinning their wheels. If you, for example, you go with two cloud providers because you don't want to be locked into one. Well now there's a rife partner ecosystem. Because translating things like IAM into another provider's environment is completely foreign. You have to build an entire new security model on top of things in order to do that effectively. That's great. In security we're seeing less of an aversion to lock in than we are in other aspects of the business. And I think that is probably the right answer. Again, I'm not partisan in this battle. If someone wants to go with a different Cloud provider than AWS, great! Awesome! Make them pick the one that makes sense for your business. I don't think that it necessarily matters. But pick one. And go all in on that. >> Well this came up to in a couple of ways. One was, the general consensus was, who doesn't like multi Cloud? If you can seamlessly move stuff between Clouds. Without having to do the modification on all this code that has to be developed. >> Who wouldn't love that? But the reality is, doesn't exist. >> Corey : Well. To your point, this came up again, is that workplace, workforce talent is on CSO said "I'm with AWS." "I have a little bit of Google. I could probably go Azure." "Maybe I bought a company with dealing some stuff over there." "But for the most part all of my talent is peaked on AWS." "Why would I want to have three separate security teams peaking on different things? When I want everyone on our stack." They're building their own stacks. Then outsourcing or using suppliers where it supports it. >> Sure. >> But the focus of building their own stacks. Their own security. Coding up was critical. And having a split competency on code bases just to make it multi, was a non starter. >> And I think multi Cloud has been a symptom. I mean, it's more than a strategy. I think it's in a large part a somewhat desperate attempt by a number of vendors who don't have their own Cloud. To say Hey, you need to have a multi Cloud strategy. But, multi Cloud has been really an outcome of multiple projects. As you say, MNA. Horses for courses. Lines of business. So my question is, I think you just answered it. Multi Cloud is more complex, less secure, and probably more costly. But is it a viable strategy for things other than lock in? >> To a point. There are stories about durability. There's business reasons. If you have a customer who does not want their data living one one particular Cloud provider. Those are strategic reasons to get away from it. And to be clear, I would love the exact same thing that you just mentioned. Where I could take what I've built and run that seamlessly on other providers. But I don't just want that to be a pile of VM's and maybe some disc. I want those to be the higher level services that take care of massive amounts of my business for me. And I want to flow those seamlessly between providers. And there's just no story around that for anything reasonable or modern. >> And history would say there won't really ever be. Without some kind of open source movement to - >> Oh yes. A more honest reading of some of the other cloud providers that are talking about multi cloud extensively translates that through a slight filter. To, we believe you should look into Multi Cloud. Because if you're going all in on a single provider there is no way in the world it's going to be us. And that's sort of a challenge. If you take a look at a number of companies out here. If someone goes all in on one provider they will not have much, if anything, to sell them of differentiated value. And that becomes the larger fixture challenge for an awful lot of companies. And I empathize with that, I really do. >> Amazon started to do a lot of channel development. Obviously their emphasis on helping people make some cash. Obviously their vendors are, ecosystems a fray. Always a fray. So sheer responsibility at one level is, well we only have one security model. We do stuff and you do stuff. So obviously it's inherently shared. So I think that's really not a surprise for me. The issue is how to get successful monetization in the ecosystem. Clearly defining lines of, rules of engagement, around where the white spaces are. And where the differentiation can occur. Your thoughts on how that plays out. >> Yeah. And that's a great question. Because I don't think you're ever going to get someone from Amazon sitting in a room. And saying Okay, if you build a tool that does this, we're never, ever, ever going to build a thing that does that. They just launched a service at re:Invent that talks to satellites in orbit. If they're going to build that, I don't, there's nothing that I will say they're never going to get involved with. Their product strategy, from the outside, feels like it's a post it note that says Yes on it. And how do you wind up successfully building and scaling a business around that? I don't have a clue. >> Eddie Jafse's on the record here in The Cube and privately with me on my reporting. Saying never say never. >> Never say never. >> We'll never say never. So that is actually an explicit >> Take him at his word on that one. >> Right. And I'm an independent consultant. Where my first language is sarcasm. So, I basically make fun of AWS in the newsletter and podcast. And that seems to go reasonably well. But, I'm never going to say that they're not going to move into self deprecation as a business model. Look at some of their service names. They're clearly starting to make inroads in that space. So, I have to keep innovating ahead of that bow wave. And for now, okay. I can't fathom trying to build a business model with a 300 person company and being able to continue to innovate at that pace. And avoid the rapid shifts as AWS explores on new offers. >> And I what I like about why, well, we were always kind of goofing on AWS. But we're fanboys as well, as you know. But what I love about AWS is that they give the opportunity for their partners. They give them plenty of head's up. It's pretty much the rules of engagement is never say never. But if they're not differentiating, that's their job. >> Corey: Yeah. >> Their job is to be better. Now one thing Amazon does say is Hey we might have a competing service, but we're always going to favor the customer. So, the partner. If a customer wants an Amazon Cloud trail. They want Cloud trail for a great example. There's been requests for that. So why wouldn't they do it? But they also recognize it's bus - people in the ecosystem that do similar things. >> Corey: Yeah. >> And they are not going to actively try to put them out of business, per se. >> Oh yeah! One company that's done fantastically well partnering with everyone is PagerDuty. And even if AWS were to announce a service that wakes you up in the middle of the night when something breaks. It's great. Awesome. How about you update your status page in a timely fashion first? Then talk about me depending on the infrastructure that you run to tell me when the infrastructure that you run is now degraded? The idea of being able to take some function like that and outsource worked well enough for them to go public. >> So where are the safe points in the ecosystem? So obviously a partner that has a strong on-prem presence that Amazon wants to get access to. >> That's a short term, or maybe even a mid term strategy. Okay. Professional services. If you're Accenture, and Ernie Young, and Deloitte, PWC, you're probably okay. Because that's not a business that Amazon really wants to be in. Now they might want to, they might want to automate as much to that as possible. But the world's going to do that anyway. But, what's your take where it's safe? >> I would also add cost optimization to that. Not from a basis of technical capability. And I think that their current tooling is disappointing. I'd argue that cost explorer and the rest of their billing situation is the asterisk next to customer obsession if we're being perfectly honest. But there's always going to be some value in an external party coming in from that space. And what form that takes is going to change. But, it is not very defensible internally to say our Cloud spend is optimized, because the vendor we're writing those large checks to tells us it is. There's always going to be a need for some third-party validation. And whether that can come through software? >> How big is that business? >> It's a great question. Right now, we're seeing that people are spending over 30 billion dollars a year on AWS and climbing. One thing we can say with a certainty in almost every case is that people's Cloud bills are not getting smaller month over month. >> Yep. >> So, it's a growing market. It's one that people feel incredibly acutely. And when you get a few drinks into people and they start complaining about various aspects of Cloud, one of the first most common points that comes up is the bill. Not that it's too high, but that it is inscrutable. >> And so, just to do a back of napkin tam, how much optimization potential is there? Is it a ten percent factor? More? >> It depends on the level of effort you're willing to invest. I mean, there's a story for almost environments where you can save 70% on your Cloud bill. All you have to do is spend 18 months of rewriting everything to use serverless primitives. Six of those months you'll be hard down across the board. And then, wait where did everyone go? Because no one's going to do that. >> Dave: You might be out of business. So it's always a question of effort spent doing optimization, versus improving features, speeding time to market and delivering something that will generate for more revenue. The theoretical upside of cost optimization is 100% of your Cloud bill. Launching the right service or product can bring in multiples of that in revenue. >> I think my theory on differentiation, Dave, is that I think Amazon is basically saying in so many words, not directly. But it's my interpretation. Hold on to the rocket ship of AWS as long as you can. And if you can get stable, hold on. If you fall off that's just your fault, right? So, what that means is, to me, move up the stack. So Amazon is clearly going to continue to grow and create scale. So the benefits to the companies create a value proposition that can extract rents out of the marketplace from value that they create on the Amazon growth. Which means, they got to lock step with Amazon on growth. And cost leap, pivot up to where there's space. And Amazon is just a steam roller that will come in. The rocket ship that's going so fast. Whatever metaphor. And so people who just say We made a deal with Amazon, we're in. And then kind of sit idle. Will probably end up getting spun off. I mean, cause it's like they fall off and Amazon will be like All right so we did that. You differentiate enough, you didn't innovate enough. But, they're going to give everyone the opportunity to take a place with the growth. So the strategy, management wise, is just constantly push the envelope. >> So that's implicit in the Amazon posture. What's explicit in Amazon's posture is build applications on our platform. And you should be okay. You know? For a while. >> Yeah. And again, I think that a lot of engineers get stuck in a trap of building something and spending all their time making their code quality as best as possible. But, that's not going to lead to a business outcome one way or another. We see stories of companies hitting success with a tire fire of an infrastructure all the time. Twitter used to display massive downtime until they were large enough to justify the time and expense of a massive rewrite. And now Twitter is effectively up all the time. Whether that's good or not is a separate argument. But, they're there. So there's always going to be time to fix things. >> Well the Twitter example is a great example. Because they built it on rails. >> Yes. >> And they put it on Amazon Cloud. It was just kind of a hack, and then all of the sudden Boom, people loved it. And then, that's to me, the benefit of Cloud. One you get the scape velocity, the investment to start Twitter was fairly low, given what the success was. And then they had to rewrite, because the scale was bursting up. That's called prototyping. >> Oh yeah. >> That's what enterprises have to do. This is the theme of, agile. Get started as a theme, just dig in. Do a hack up font. But don't get confuse that with scale. That's where the rubber meets the road. >> Right and the, Oh Cloud isn't for us because we're an exception case. There are very few companies for whom that statement is true in the modern era. And, do an honest analysis first, before deciding we're going to build our own data centers because we can do it for cheaper. If you're Dropbox, putting storage in, great. Otherwise you're going to end up in this story where Oh, well, we have 20 instances now, so we can do this cheaper in Iraq somewhere. I will bet you a house you're wrong. But okay. >> Yeah. People are telling me that. Okay final question for you. As you've wandered around and been in the sessions, been in the analyst thing. What are some slice of life commentary stories you've bumped into that you found either funny, clever, insulting, or humorous? What's out on the floor? What are some of the conversations? >> One of the best ones was a company I'm not going to name, but the story they told was fantastic. They have, they're primarily on Azure. But they also have a strong secondary presence with AWS, and that's fascinating to me. How does that work internally? It turns out their cloud of choice is Azure. And they have to mandate that with guardrails in place. Because if you give developers a choice they will all go and build on AWS instead. Which is fascinating. And there are business reasons behind why they're doing what they're doing. But that story was just very humorous. I can't confirm or deny whether it was true or not. Because it was someone with way too much to drink telling an awesome story. But the idea of having to forcibly drag your developers away from a thing in a favor of another thing? >> That's like being at a bad party. It's like Oh, the better party is over there. All my friends are over there. >> But they have a commitment to Microsoft software estate. So, that's likely why they're. >> They just deal with Microsoft. >> And I'm not saying this is necessarily the wrong approach. I just find it funny. >> Might be the right business decision, but when you ask the developers, we see that all the time, John. >> All the time. I mean I had a developer one time come to me and start, he like "Look, we thought it would be great to build on Azure. We were actually being paid. They were writing checks to incent us. And I had a revolt. Engineers were revolting. Because the reverse proxies as there was cobbled together services. And they weren't clean native services and primitives. So the engineers were revolting. So they, we had to turn down the cash from Microsoft and go back to Amazon." >> Azure is much better now, but they have to outrun that legacy shadow of at first, it wasn't great. And people try something once, "That was terrible!" Well would you like to try it again now? "Why would I do that? It was terrible!" And it takes time to overcome that knee-jerk reaction. >> Well, but to your point about the business decision. It might make business sense to do that with Microsoft. It's maybe a little bit more predictable than Amazon is as a partner. >> Oh the way to optimize your bill on another Cloud provider that isn't AWS these days is to call up your account rep and yell at them. They're willing to buy business in most cases. That's not specific to any one provider. That's most of them. It's challenging to optimize free, so we don't see the same level of expensive bill problems in most companies there as well. >> Well the good news is on Microsoft, and I was a really big critic of Azure going back a few years ago. Is that they absolutely have changed their philosophy going back, I'd say two, three years ago. In the past two years, particular 24 months, they really have been cranking. They've been pedaling as fast as they can. They're serious. There's commitment from the top. And then they tell us, so there's no doubt. They're doing it also with the Kubernetes. What they're seeing, as they're doing is phenomenal. So... >> Great developer jobs at Microsoft. >> They're in for the long game. They're not going to be a fad. No doubt about it. >> No. And we're not going to see for example the Verizon public Cloud the HP public Cloud. Both of which were turned off. The ones that we're seeing today are largely going to be to stay of the big three. Big four if we include Alibaba. And it's, I'm not worried about the long term viability of any of them. It's just finding their niche, finding their market. >> Yeah, finding their lanes. Cory. Great to have you on. Good to hear some of those stories. Thanks for the commentary. >> Thank you. >> As always great guest analyst Cube alumni, friend, analyst, Cory Quinn here in the Cube. Bringing all the top action from AWS re:Inforce. Their first inaugural security conference around Cloud security. And Cube's initiation of security coverage continues, after this break. (upbeat electronic music)

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering del Technologies. World twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Del Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the cubes Live coverage of Del World Technologies Here in Las Vegas. I'm your host, Rebecca Night, along with my co host Stew Minutemen. We have two guests on the seven, both both Cube veterans. So we have Varun Cabra. He is the VP product Marketing Cloud Delhi Emcee and Moeneeb unit. Minute Soudan VP Solutions Product marketing at VM. Where. Thank you so much for coming on the show. >> Thanks for having >> thanks for having us. So we just had the keynote address we heard from Michael Dell Satya Nadella Pack Girl Singer It's a real who's who of this of this ecosystem. Break it down for us. What? What did we hear? What is what is sort of the most exciting thing from your perspective? >> So, Rebecca, what? What we hear from customers again and again is it's a multi cloud world, right? Everybody has multiple cloud deployments, but we saw that mentioned five on average cloud architectures in customer environments and what we keep hearing from them is they There are operational silos that developed as part of the to set the fellas that are different. The machine formats. All of these things just lied a lot of lead to a lot of operational silos in complexity, and the customers are overwhelming or willingly asking William C. As well as being Where is that? How do we reduce this complexity? How do we we'll be able to move, were close together? How do we manage all of this in a common framework and reduce some of the complexity? So there's really they could take advantage off the promise of Monte Club. >> Yeah, so many. The Cube goes to all the big industry shows. I feel like everywhere I go used to be, you know, it's like intel and in video, up on stage for the next generation. Well, for the last year, it felt like, you know, patent Sanjay, or, you know, somebody like that, you know, up on stage with Google Cloud of a couple of years ago, there was Sanjay up on St Come here. They're searching Adela up on stage. So let's talk about that public cloud piece China. We know you know the relationship with a wsbn were clad in a ws sent ripples through the industry on you know, the guru cloud piece. So tell us what's new and different peace when it comes to come up to public clouded. How does that fit with in relation to all the other clouds? >> Sure, no, I'll amplify. You know what Aaron said, Right? We think about customer choice first. Andrea Lee, customer choice. As you know, you got multiple cloud providers. We've seen customers make this choice off. I need to make this, you know, a multi cloud world. Why're they going towards the multi clothing world? It's because applications air going there on really well, where strategy has bean to say, How do we empower customers without choice? Are you know, eight of us partnership is as strong as ever, but we continue to eat away there, and that was their first going to choice a platform. And Patty alluded to this on the stage. We have four thousand cloud provider partners right on the four thousand block provider partners we've built over the years, and that includes, you know, not small names. They include IBM. They, like, you know, they've got in Iraq space. Some of the biggest cloud providers. So our strategy is always being. How do we take our stack and and lighted and as many public laws? It's possible. So we took the first step off IBM. Then you know, about four thousand. You know, other plot providers being Rackspace, Fujitsu, it's Archie. Then came Amazon. I'm is on being the choice of destination for a lot of public clouds. Today we kind of further extend that with Microsoft and, you know, a few weeks ago with Google, right? So there's really about customer choice and customers when they want the hybrid multi Claude fees his abdomen right. You got two worlds, you couldn't existing application and you're looking Just get some scale out of that existing application and you're building a lot of, you know, native cloud native applications. They want this, you know, in multiple places. >> All right, so if I could just drilled down one level deep, you know? So if I'm in as your customer today, my understanding it's Veum or STD. Sea Stack. What does that mean? You know what I use, You know? How is that? You can feel compare? Do I use the Microsoft? You know System Center. Am I using V Center? You know, >> shark now, and this is really again in an abdomen. Calm conversation, right where they were multiple announcements in here just to unpack them there. It's like, Hey, we had the Del Technologies Cloud platform. The Del Technologies clock platform is powered by, you know, Delhi emcee infrastructure and be aware Cloud Foundation on top, where slicing your full computer network storage with the sphere of visa and a sex and management. Right. And the second part was really We've got being where cloud on a deli emcee. The system brings a lot of the workloads which stood in public clouds. We're seeing this repatriation off workloads back on. You know, on the data center are the edge. This is really driven by a lot of customers and who have built native I pee in the public cloud beyond Amazon beat ashore who want to now bring some of those workloads closer to the, you know, data center or the edge. Now this comes to how do I take my azure workloads and bring it closer to the edge or my data center? Why's that? I need you know, we have large customers, you know. You know, large customers multinational. They have, you know, five hundred thousand employees, ninety locations will wide. Who built to I p or when I say I p applications natively in cloud suddenly for five thousand employees and ninety locations, they're going ingress egress. Traffic to the cloud public cloud is huge. How do I bring it closer to my data centers? Right. And this is where taking us your workloads. Bringing them, you know, on prime closer salts. That big problem for them. Now, how do I take that workloads and bring them closer? Is that where we landed in the Veum wear on Del, you know AMC Infrastructure? Because this big sea closer to the data center gives me either Lowell agency data governance and you know, control as well as flexibility to bring these work clothes back on. Right? So the two tangent that you're driving both your cloud growth and back to the edge The second tangent of growth or explosion is cloud native workloads. We're able to bring them closer. Your data center is freely though the value proposition, right? >> Well, we heard so much about that on the main stage this morning about just how differently with modern workforce works in terms of the number of devices that used the different locations they are when they are doing the tasks of their job. >> You talk a little bit about the >> specifics in terms of customers you're working with. You don't need a name names. But just how you are enabling the >> way get feedback from customers in all industries, right? So you don't even share a few as well Way have large banks that are, you know, they're standardized their workloads on VM where today, right as as have many Morgan is ations, and they're looking for the flexibility to be able to move stuff to the cloud or moving back on premises and not have to reformat, not have to change that machine formats and just make it a little easy. They want the flexibility to be able to run applications in their bank branches right in the cloud, right? But then they don't they don't necessarily want adopt a new machine format for a new standardized platform. That's really what Thie azure announcement helps them do, Just like with eight of us, can now move workloads seamlessly to azure USVI center. Use your other you know, tools that you're familiar with today. Already to be ableto provision in your work clothes. All >> right, so for and what? Wonder if we could drill into the stack a little bit here? You know, I went to the Microsoft show last year, and it was like, Oh, WSSD is very different than Azure Stack even if you look at the box and it's very much the same underneath the covers, there was a lot of discussion of the ex rail. We know how fast that's been growing. Can you believe there's two pieces? This there's the VCF on Vieques rail and then, you know, just help. Help explain >> s o for the Del Technologies Cloud Platform announcement, which is, as you said, VX rail in first hcea infrastructure with Mia McLeod foundations tightly integrated, right, so that the storage compute and networking capabilities of off the immortal foundation are all incorporated and taken advantage off it. In the end structure. This is all about making things easier to consume, right, producing the complexity for customers. When they get the X trail, they overwhelmingly tell us they want to use the metal foundations to be able to manage and automate those workloads. So we're packaging this up out of the box. So when customers get it, they have That's cloud experience on premises without the complexity of having to deploy it because it's already integrated, cited the engineering teams have actually worked together. And then you can then, as we mentioned, extend those workloads to public loud, using the same tools, the same, the MSR foundation tools. >> And, you know, uh, we built on Cloud Foundation for a while, and I'm sure you followed us on the Cloud Foundation. And that has bean when you know yes, we talk about consistent infrastructure, consistent operations, this hybrid cloud world and what we really mean. Is that really where? Cloud foundation stack, right? So when we talk about the emcee on eight of us, is that Cloud foundation stack running inside of Amazon? When we talk about you know, our partnership with the shore, he's not being where Cloud Foundation stack running on a shore. We talk about this four thousand partners. Cloud certified IBM. It is the Cloud Foundation stack and the key components being pulled. Stack the Sphere v. Santana Sex and there's a critical part in Cloud Foundation called lifecycle management. It's, you know, it's missed quite easily, right? The benefit of running a public cloud. The key through the attributes you get is you know, you get everything as a service, you get all your infrastructure of software. And the third part is you don't spend any time maintaining the interoperability between you compete network storage. And that is a huge deal for customers. They spent a lot of time just maintaining this interrupt and, you know, view Marie Claude Foundation has this life cycle manager which solves that problem. Not not just Kee. >> Thank you for bringing it up because, right, one of the big differences you talk about Public Cloud, go talk to your customer and say, Hey, what version of Microsoft Azure are you running and the laughter you and say like, Well, Microsoft takes care of that. Well, when I differentiate and I say Okay, well, I want to run the the same stack in my environment. How do I keep that up today? We know the VM where you know customers like there's lots of incentives to get them there, but oftentimes they're n minus one two or something like that. So how do we manage and make sure that it's more cloud like enough today? >> Yeah, absolutely. So. So there's two ways to do that to one of them is because the V m. A and L E M C team during working on engineering closely together, we're going to have the latest word in supported right right out the gate. So you have an update, you know that it's gonna work on your your hardware or vice versa. So that's one level and then with via MacLeod and L E M C. We're also providing the ability to basically have hands off management and have that infrastructure running your data center or your eyes locations, but at the same time not have to manage it. You leave that management to tell technologies into somewhere. To be able to manage that solution for you is really, as Moody said, bringing that public loud experience to your own premise. Locations is long, >> and I think that's one of the big, different trainers that's going to come right. People want to get that consumption model, and they're trying to say, Hey, how do I build my own data center, maintain it, but the same time I want to rely on, you know, dull and beyond Where to come and help us build it together. Right? And the second part of announcement was really heavy and wear dull on the d l E M C. Is that Manager's offered the demo you saw from June. Yang was being able to have a consumption interface where you could connect click of a button, roll it back into a data center as well. It's an edge because you have real Italy. Very little skill sets where night in the edge environment and as EJ Compute needs become more prolific with five g i ot devices, you need that same kind of data governance model and data center model. There is well and not really the beauty off, you know, coming to be aware. And Delta, you know Del DMC del. Technology's power is to maintain that everywhere, right? I >> won't ask you about >> innovation. One of the things that's really striking during American executive, Even though I obviously have my own customers, >> I think it really comes down to listening to customers. Write as as Del Technologies is Liam, where we have the advantage of working with so many customers, hundreds of thousand customers around the world we get to hear and listen and understand what are the cutting edge things that customers are looking for? And then we can not take that back to customers like Bank of America who may have taught about certain scenarios right that we will learn from. But they may not have thought about other industries where things could be applicable to their street, so that drives a lot of our innovation. Very. We are very proud about the fact that we're customer focused. Our invasion is really driven by listening to customers on. And, you know, having smart people just work on this one to work on this problems. And, >> you know, customer wise is a big deal customer choice. That's why we're doing what we're doing with multiple cloud providers, right? And I think this is really a key, too. If you just look at being where's innovation were already talking about this multi claude world where it was like, Hey, you've got workloads natively. So we How do you manage? Those were already ahead and thinking about, you know come in eighties with acquisition of Hip Tio and you if you think about it, you know, we've done this innovation in the cloud space established this hybrid credibility on we've launched with Del Technology. Now we're already ahead in this multi cloud operational model. We're already ahead in this coop in eighties. Evolution will bring it back with the family and listen to the customers for choice. Because of the end of the day, we're here to South customer problems. I >> think that's another dimension of choice that we offer, which is both traditional applications as well as applications of the future that will increasingly, because container based, >> yeah, I just wonder if you could spend on a little bit. You know what? One of the things I said via Moore is great. It really simplified and by environment, I go back. Fifteen years ago, one of things that did is let me take my old application that was probably long in the tooth. Begin with my heart was out of date, my operating system at eight, sticking in of'em and leave it for another five years, and the users that are like, Oh my gosh, I'd need an update. How do we get beyond that and allow this joint solution to be an accelerant for applications? >> Yeah, and I think you know the application is probably the crux of the business, right? >> We'Ll call in the tent from >> change applications of Evolve. This is actually the evolution journey of itself is where they used to be, like support systems. Now they become actually translate to business dollars because, you know, the first thing that your customer awful customer touches is an application and you can drive business value from it. And customers are thinking about this old applications and new applications. And they have to start thinking about where do I take my applications? Where do they need to line and then make a choice off? What infrastructures? The best black mom for it. So really can't flip the thing on. Don't think infrastructure first and then retrospect APS to it. I think at first and then make a charge on infrastructure based on the application need and and really look like you said being where kind of took the abstraction layer away from infrastructure and make sure that you'll be EMS could run everywhere. We're taking the same for applications to say. Doesn't matter if it's of'Em based. It's a cloud native will give you the same, you know, inconsistent infrastructure in operations. >> Okay, we're in that last thing. Could you just tell us of the announcements that were made? What's available today? What's coming later this year? >> Absolutely So Del Technologies Cloud Platform that's based on the X Trail and via MacLeod Foundation is available now as an integrated solution via MacLeod and Daddy and see the fully managed offer is available in >> the second half of this >> year. It's invader right now. And as you saw, we have really good feedback >> from our customers. And then I think >> the, uh, the Azure BMR Solutions offer will be available soon as well. >> All right, well, Varun and many Congratulations on the progress. We look forward to talking to the customers as they roll this out, and Rebecca and I will be back with lots more coverage here. Del Technologies World twenty nineteen. Little coverage to sets three days, tenth year, The Cube at M. C and L World. I'm still many men. And thanks so much for watching

>> Hi, Lisa Martin, on the ground, with the Cube at Google for the sixth annual CloudNOW Top Women in Cloud awards. And we are very excited to be joined by our next guest, Bridgit Kromhout, the principal Cloud developer advocate from Microsoft. Welcome to the Cube! >> Welcome, to me, wait. You know what? I feel like, it's so funny. I spend so much time hosting podcasts that I'm primed to start welcoming guests. (laughter) So. >> Well, thank you. I feel very welcomed. >> Hi. Thank you so much for having me. >> And we love your Microsoft-reflected hair extensions. That's so fantastic (laughter) So, Bridgit, you are a computer scientist by training, what was your education like? Were you a STEM kid from grade school all the way through graduating college? >> Yeah, it's kind of funny. I actually wasn't and I think that there's maybe a take away there for people who think, oh, it would be too hard to switch into computers. There's too much to learn. I mean, yes, there is a lot to learn, but I didn't have a computer until I was 16, so, and, I didn't know I was going to major in Computer Science until I took a programming class and realized I loved it and dropped all my other classes and completely switched my major. And I think that there's probably a lot of opportunities today that there weren't back when I did this in the 90's. You know, all sorts of boot camps and that sort of thing, but I think probably just that you can choose to go into tech from any starting point. ' Cause, like, not having a computer as a kid, I would go over to friend's houses and play Oregon Trail and, you know, Dive Dysentery, but I wouldn't have that at home and I turned out fine. >> Well, I love that you took a class and you tried it and that was transformative. I think that's one of the great lessons that even your experience can share is, try it. >> Absolutely. >> And it probably opened up your world too. Did it, well yeah, let's talk about that. >> Yeah. >> Did it open up your world to expose more of what computer science is than what you may have thought? >> You know, I had gone to some summer math camps as a teenager and you know, played around with fractals and you know, programs to generate fractals, like on the, I think it was probably SJI workstations, that the college we were at had and it was interesting to me but maybe not necessarily something I could take action on until I got to college and got access to unit systems and it's like the little kid in Jurassic Park, this is a unit system. I know this. (laughter) You know, I think that getting the opportunity to try things, whether it's in an academic setting or just with all of the free resources that are available today, it's super important. >> So, you went to the University of Minnesota, what surprised your or delighted you through your curriculum in computer science, when you were there? >> You know, it's kind of funny. I feel like there was a lot of emphasis on algorithms and data structures and probably, because I was working for the CS department as a Student Systems Administrator at the same time, I kept thinking like, well bigger notation, this is great, but let's talk about troubleshooting things on this, you know, Solaris system, because that's what I would actually do and I think that there is, I've come to realize over time that there's a lot of benefit to both. Like, you could spend a lot of time going down a rabbit hole if you don't have a firm theoretical background of what's actually possible, and how you can speed up a system. So, it's good to have that theoretical background, but I think it's also really important to focus on the like, the observability and the usability of systems and your detailed troubleshooting steps. I think of it like, you spent a lot of time in college taking classes where they emphasize the Scientific Method and you learning to prove that gravity works was never the point. >> Right. >> Because, obviously, we all know that but you learning how to isolate variables and observe accurately, helps a lot in terms of solving problems in production systems later. >> Good insight. So, you're very involved in the community. You are, you mentioned, podcasts. You go to conferences. You blog. What inspires you to share your knowledge, your experiences, and be involved in the community? >> I mean, I think that I had a manager some years ago who encouraged me to speak at a local UN conference and I brought a co-worker and spoke with him and it was a very new experience for me and I was nervous and what I realized is, that the room was full of people who, they weren't there to stare at me or judge me, they were there because they really hoped to get some insights for things they were trying to do and I think realizing that, whatever it is that you're putting out there in the world, people aren't looking at it to judge you, they're looking at it 'cause they need something and realizing that makes it so much more interesting and also, less scary to share. >> I imagine rewarding, as well. >> I think so. Like, especially because people are often looking for ways that they can drive change inside their organization, how they can convince somebody to use the exciting new framework or the exciting new, you know, container orchestration or whatever, that they're trying to use. Like, a lot of times, people who are paying attention to the wider world of tech really want to use exciting new things, but, hey, spoiler alert, if you work in a company with more than two people, there will probably be at least two opinions. >> Yeah. (laughter) >> So, you have to. >> You can basically go and do that, right? >> Yeah. Right? >> Yeah. >> So, you have to have not just all the technical background. I like to joke that, you know, I majored in Computer Science 'cause I didn't want to talk to people and, oops, turns out, tech is full of humans. Software is made of people. >> Yep, right. >> Like sort of an ingredient, right? >> Yeah. >> And, it's like, you can't, you can't avoid that and I say, just embrace it. >> I love that. Do you have any themes to your podcasts or to your blogs? >> Yeah, I think there's a talk I gave a number of times in the last year called, Containers Will Not Fix Your Broken Culture And Other Hard Truths. >> Interesting. >> And, then I gave, I decided a few months after I gave that one enough times that I was bored of hearing myself talk, I started giving one called Computers Are Easy, People Are Hard, because I think that the tech stuff that we're all excited about has a lot of socio-technical components, in terms of the interactions. >> Yeah. >> Like, every single technical choice you want to make has a certain weight and gravity to it of the way the other people feel about how you maybe made their job harder or easier or maybe that they now feel displaced. Maybe they're not sure what their place is in the exciting new world where you changed everything out from under them and they were just hoping to hold on a couple years more, until they retired and I think, as a mid-career professional, shall we put it that way? I, of course, I see all the kids these days TM, but I also see and sympathize with all the people who, who really prefer the industry not have another giant C change right this second. >> Right. >> 'Cause they kind of just want to vest and get out and it's like, I think we have to be empathetic and understanding of everyone's perspective along that entire spectrum, 'cause there's a lot of benefit to exciting change and there's also a lot of benefit to contextual knowledge of your local environment. >> Right. >> And, it's like, people at different ends of, you know, their career trajectory have you know, a varying degree of either of those, and I think it's really important and positive to listen to everyone. >> I love that because culture is something that we talk about a lot with technology executives that we're talking to in the Cube, whether it's a C level or a line of business manager or a product person and cultural change is hard. >> Really hard. >> To impact but, you bring up a great point about where you are on the career trajectory. You're opinions or experience is going to influence that. >> It totally will. I mean, especially because, so, I just started a couple months ago, working at Microsoft. I spent the two years before that working at Pivotal, talking to a lot of our customers in large enterprises and governments and you know, banks and that sort of thing and you have a lot of resistance to and fear of change when it feels like the stakes are really high and there's a lot of uncertainty and so, anywhere that, from a technical point of view, you can help with that uncertainty. Whether it's by, instead of the artisanally, hand-whittled servers in your data center, maybe looking at public Cloud, anything that can make steps more reproducible, so that you don't have to cling so much to what you were doing before and can, hopefully, extend past that. Like, there's a lot of places where that the exciting wave of IT improvement that a lot of orgs are doing intersects with people's desire to maybe have challenges but also, still feel valued. Like, there's a lot of places where, considering those human factors, when making exciting organizational change happen, which everybody needs to for their profit motives or you know, their organizational mission, in general. I think it's really beneficial. >> Speaking of feeling valued, who do you value? Who are some of your mentors that inspire you today? >> You know, it's funny you should ask that because I feel like mentorship is one of those things where I have a giant question mark. I'm not sure if I've had it done right or have ever done it right or whatever. I would say I'm definitely inspired by a lot of the women I know in technology. In particular, like, for example, Jessie Frazelle. I happen to work on the same team with her now at Microsoft, which we did not, either of us, know that the other one was going there when I had her keynote, Dev Up Stays Minneapolis, last summer and then, in just a couple months later, it was like, oh, you're going to Microsoft? What team? We're going to the same team. This is fantastic! >> Wow, that's great. >> But, I bring her up as an example because I think that if you, no matter how long you've been in tech and she's younger than I am and has been in tech a shorter amount of time, and yet, like, she both contributes, you know, solid technical content. She has commits in the Linux kernel, but she also makes sure to put information out there to help other people. I think that, that's a really, it's what I look up to and what I try to emulate is it's great to be technical, but we also have to be human. >> I love that. Well, Bridget, thank you so much for stopping by the Cube and sharing your story and congrats on the award. >> Thank you so much. >> We thank you for watching again. Lisa Martin, on the ground, with the Cube at Google for the CloudNow Top Women in Cloud Awards. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)