>>Yeah. Hello and welcome to the Cubes Presentation of Women in Tech Global Event Celebrating International Women's Day I'm John for a host of the Cube. We had a great guest in Cuba. Alumni Veranda re vice president. Commercial sales for Europe, Middle East and Africa. EMEA at AWS Amazon Web service to great to see you. Thank you for coming in all the way across the pond and the US to Palo Alto from London. >>Thank you, John. Great to see you again. I'm super excited to be part of this particularly special event. >>Well, this is a celebration of International Women's Day. It's gonna continue throughout the rest of the year, and every day is International Women's Day. But you're actually international. Your women in Tech had a great career. We talk that reinvent. Let's step back and walk through your career. Highlights to date. What have been some of the key things in your career history that you can share? >>Uh, thanks, John. It's always nice to reflect on this, you know? Look, I the way I would classify my career. First of all, it's very it's been very international. I was born and raised in India I went to study in the US It was always a dream to go do that. I did my masters in Boston University. I then worked in the U S. For a good 17 years across A number of tech, uh, tech companies in particular, started my career at McKinsey in the very early days and then moved on to work for E M. C. You'll you'll probably remember them, John. Very well, of course, There now, Del um And then I moved over to Europe. So I've spent the last 18 years here in Europe. Um, and that's been across a couple of different things. I I always classify. Half my career has been strategy, transformation, consulting, and the other half of my career is doing the real job of actually running operations. And I've been, you know, 12 15 years in the tech and telecom sector had the excitement of running Schneider Electric's business in the UK Denniston and Private Equity went back to McKinsey Boomerang, and then a W s called me, and how could I possibly refuse that? So it's been really exciting, I think the one big take away when I reflect on my career is. I've always had this Northstar about leading a business someday, and then I've sort of through my career master set of skills to be able to do that. And I think that's probably what you see. Very eclectic, very mobile, very international and cross industry. Uh, in particular. >>I love the strategy and operations comment because they're both fun, but they're different ones. Very execution, tactical operating. The business strategy is kind of figuring out the future of the 20 mile stare. You know, playing that chess match, so to speak, all great skills and impressive. But I have to ask you, what got you in the tech sector? Why technology? >>Well, so you know, in some ways I kind of fell into it, John, right? Because when I was growing up, my father was always in the tech space, so he had a business and fax machines and he was a reseller of cannon. If you remember Cannon, um, and microfilm equipment and I grew up around him, and he was a real entrepreneur. I mean, always super visionary about new things that were coming out. And so as I followed him around, I said, I kind of wanna be him. And it's a little bit about that sort of role model right early in your career. And then when I moved to the U. S. To study again, it wasn't like I thought I was gonna go to attack. I mean, I wasn't an engineer, you know. I grew up in India with economics degree. That's when women went into We didn't necessarily go into science. But when I joined McKinsey in the early days, I ended up working with, you know, the big companies of the days. You know, the IBMs, the E M. C. Is the Microsoft the oracles, etcetera. So I just then began to love, love the innovation, always being on the sort of bleeding edge. Um, and I guess it was a little bit just fascinating for me not being an engineer to learn how technology had all these applications in terms of how businesses advanced. So I guess, Yeah, that's kind of why I still think it around with it. It's interesting >>how you mentioned how you at that time you pipeline into economics, which is math. Of course. Uh, math is needed for economics, but also the big picture and This is one of the conversation we're having, Uh, this year, the breaking down the barriers for women in tech. Now there's more jobs you don't You don't need to have one pathway into into science or, you know, we're talking stem versus steam arts are super important, being creative. So the barriers to get in are being removed. I mean, if you think about the surface area for technology. So I got to ask you, what barriers do you think Stop girls and young women the most in considering a career in Tech? >>I've got to start with role models, John. Right? Because I think a number of us grew up, by the way, being the only not having the allies in the business, right? All of us, all the all the managers and hiring people are males rather than females. And the fact of the matter is, we didn't have this sort of he for she movement. And I think that's the biggest barrier is not having enough role models and positive role models in the business. I can tell you that research shows that actually, when you have female role models, you tend to hire more and actually what employees say is they feel more supportive when they have actually female managers. So I think there are lots of goodness, but we just need to accelerate how many role models we have. I think the other things I will say to you as well is, if you look at just the curriculum and the ability to get women into stem, right, I mean, we need to have colleges, universities, schools also encouraging women into stem. And you've probably heard about our programme. You know, it's something we do to encourage girls into stem. I think it's really important that teachers and others are actually encouraging girls to do math, for example, right? It's not just about science. Math is great. Logic is great, by the way. Philosophy is great. I just love what you said. I think increasingly, the EQ and EQ parts have to come together, and I think that's what women excel at. Um, so I think that's another very, very big carrier, and then the only other thing I will say is we're gonna watch the language we use, like when I think about job descriptions, they tend to be very male oriented languages we look at CVS now, if you haven't been a female in tech for a long time, your CV isn't going to show a lot of tech, is it? So for recruiters out there, look for competencies. Look for capabilities. You mentioned strategy and arts earlier. We have this leadership principles, As you know, John, really well, think big and dive deep, right? That strategy and operations. And so I think we we need to recruit for that. And we need to recruit for culture. And we need to recruit for people with ambition, an aspiration and not always Just look at 20 years of experience because you're not gonna find it. So I think those are some of the big barriers. Um, that I that I at least think, is stopping women from getting into town. But the biggest one is not enough women at the top hiring women. >>I think people want to see themselves, or at least an aspirational version of what they could be. And I think that's only gonna get better. Lots changed. A lot has happened over the years, but now, with technology in everyone's life, covid pulled forward a lot of realities. You know, the current situation in Europe where you're you are now has pulled forward a lot of realities around community, cyber, digital, our lives. And I think this opens up new positions, clearly cybersecurity. And I'm sure the job boards in every company is hiring people that didn't exist years ago, but also this new problems to solve. So the younger generation coming up, um, is gonna work on these problems, and they need to have role models. So what's your reaction to that? You know, new problems are opportunities their new so usually solved by probably the next generation. Uh, they need mentors. All this kind of works together. What's your reaction? >>Yeah, and, you know, let me pick up on something we're doing that I think is really important. I think you have to address age on the pipeline problem, you know, because they're just is a pipeline problem, you know, at the end of the day, And by that, what I mean is, we need to have more and more people with the and I'm not gonna use the word engineering or science. I'm going to use the word digital skills, right? And I think what we've we've committed to doing, John, you know, I'm very proud of this is we said we're gonna train 29 people 29 million people around this world on digital skills for free by 2025. Right, That's gonna help us get that pipeline going. The other thing we do is something called Restart where we actually do 12 weeks of training for the under, employed and under served right and underrepresented communities. And that means in 12 weeks we can get someone. And you know, this case I talk to you about this before I love it. Fast food operator to cloud, right? I mean, that's that's what I call changing the game on pipeline. But But here's the other stand. Even if the pipeline is good and we often see that the pipeline can be as much as 50% at the very early career women, by the time you get into the C suite, you're not a 50 anymore. You're less than 20%. So the other big thing John there, and this comes back to the types of roles you have an opportunities you create. We've got to pull women through the pipeline. We've really got to encourage that there are sponsors and not just mentors. I think women are sorry to say this over mentored and under sponsored. We need more people say I'm gonna open the door for you and create the opportunity I had that advantage. I hit people through my career. By the way, they were all men, right? Who actually stood out there and bang on the door and said, Okay, Tunisia is gonna go do this. And my first break I remember was having done strategy all my life when the CEO come into the room and you said, You're gonna better locks and you're gonna go run the P and L in Benelux and I almost fainted because I thought, Oh, my God, I've never run a PNR before But it's that type of risk taking that's going to be critical. And I think we've got to train our leaders and our managers to have those conversations be the sponsors, get that unconscious bias training. We all have it. Every single one of us has it. I think those are the combinations of things that are going to actually help open the door and make a see that Actually, it's not just about coding. It's actually about sales. It's about marketing. It's about product management. It's about strategy. It's about sales operations. It's about really, really thinking differently about your customers, right? And that's the thing that I think is attractive about technology. And you know what? Maybe that leads you to eventually become a coder. Or maybe not. Maybe you enter from coding, but those are all the range is available to you in technology, which is not good at advertising, >>that there's more applications than ever before. But I love your comment about over mentoring and under sponsored. Can you quickly just define the difference between those two support elements sponsoring versus, uh, mentoring sponsoring >>So mentors And by the way they can range from my son is my mentor, you know, is a great reverse mentor. By the way, I really encourage you to have the reverse mentoring going. So many mentors are people from all walks of your life, right? And you should have, you know, half a dozen of those. At least I think right who are going to be able to help you deal with situations, help coach you give you feedback respond to concerns You're having find ways for you to navigate all the stuff you need, by the way. Right? And feedback the gift we need that sponsors. It's not about the feedback. Necessarily. It's people who literally will create opportunities for you. Mentors don't necessarily do that. Sponsors will say you You know what? We got the phone. Call John and say, John, I've got the perfect person for you. You need to go speak to her. That's the big difference. John and a couple of sponsors. It's not about many, >>and that's where the change happens. I love that comment. Good call. I'm glad I could double down on that. Now that you have the environment, pipeline and working, you have the people themselves in the environment getting better sponsors and mentors, hopefully working more and more together. But once they're in the environment, they still got to be part of it. So as girls and young women and to the working sector for tech, what advice would you give them? Because now they're in the game there in the arena. So what advice would you give them? Because the environments they are now >>yeah, yeah. I mean, Gosh, John, it's you know, you've lived your career in this space. It's an exciting place to be right. Um, it's a growth opportunity. And I think that's a really important point because the more you enter sectors where there's a lot of growth and I would say hyper right growth, that's just gonna open the doors to so many more things. If you're in a place where it's all about cost cutting and restructuring, do you know what? It's super hard to really compete and have fun, right? And as we say, make history. So it's an exciting place. Today's world transformation equals digital transformation, right? So tech is the place to be, because tech is about transformation, Right? So coming in here, the one advice I would give you is Just do it because believe me, there's so much you can do, like take the risk, find someone is going to give you that entree point and get in the door right? And look, you know what's the worst that could happen? The worst that could happen is you don't like it. Fine. There's lots of other things than to go to. So my advice is, you know, don't take the mm. The really bad tips I've received in my career, right? Don't let people tell you you can't do it. You're not good enough. You don't have the experience, right? It's a male's world. You're a woman. It's all about you and not about EQ. Because that's just rubbish, Frankly, right. The top tip I was ever given was actually to take the risk and go for it. And that was my father. And then all these other sponsors I've had around the way. So that's that's the one thing I would say. The other thing I will say to you is the reason I advise it and the reason you should go for it. It's purposeful. Technology is changing our lives, you know, And we will all live to be no longer. 87 I think 100 right? And so you have the opportunity to change the course of the world by coming to technology. The vaccine deployment John was a great example, right? Without cloud, we couldn't have launch these vaccines as fast as we did. Right? Um, so I think there's a tonne of purpose. You've got to get in and then you've got to find. As I said, those sponsors, you've got to find those mentors. You've got to not worry about vertical opportunities and getting promoted. You gotta worry about horizontal opportunities, right? And doing the things that I needed to get the skills that you require, right? I also say one thing. Um, don't Don't let people tell you not to speak up, not to express your opinion. Do all of the above be authentic, Be authentic style. You will see more role models. Many, many more role models are gonna come out in tech that are going to be female role models. And actually, the men are really stepping up to the role models. And so we will be better together. And here's the big thing. We need you. We can do this without women. There's no possible way that we will be able to deliver on the absolute incredible transformation we have ahead of us without you. >>Inclusion, Diversity equity. These are force multipliers for companies. If applied properly, it's competitive advantage. And so breaking the bias. The theme this year is super super important. It sounds like common sense, but the reality is you break the bias It's not just women as men, as all of us. What can we do? Better to bring that force multiplier capabilities and competitive advantage of inclusion, diversity, equity to business. >>So the first thing I would say and my doctor used to always tell me this if it hurts, don't do it right. I would say to you just do it. Get diverse teams in place because if you have diverse teams, you have diversity of thought. You don't have to worry as much about bias because, you know, you've got the people around the table who actually represent the world. We also do something really cool. We have something called biassed busters. And so in meetings we have bias borders. People are going to, like, raise their hand and say, I'm not sure that that was really meant the way it was supposed to be, So I think that's just a nice little mechanism that we have here, Um, in a W s that helps. The other thing I would say to you is being your authentic self. You can't be a man and mentioned be women, and you're not gonna replicate somebody else because you're never gonna succeed if you do that, you know? So I would say be your authentic self all of the time, You know, we know. We know that women are sometimes labelled as aggressive when they're really not. Don't worry about it. It's not personal. I think the main thing you have to do is and I advise women all the time Is calibrate the feedback you're getting okay? Don't catastrophizing it right. Calibrate it. Taken in, you don't have to react to every feedback in the world, right? And make sure that you're also conscious of your own biases, right? So I think those are my Those are my two cents John for what they were for breaking device. I love the thing. >>Be yourself, You know, Don't take it too personal. Have some fun. That's life. That's a life lesson. Um, Final question, while I got you here, you're a great inspiration, and you're a great role model. You're running a very big business for Amazon web services. Europe, Middle East and Africa is a huge territory. It's its own thing. It's It's like you're bigger than some companies out there. Your role in your organisation. What's the hot area out there you were talking before camera. That's emerging areas that you're focused on. People are watching this young women, young ladies around the world. We're gonna look at this and say, What wave should I jump on? What's the hot things happening in in Europe? Middle Eastern Africa? >>I think the three things I would mention and I'm sure there's I'm sure, John, as we've spoken to my peers across the other gos, right, there are some similarities. The very, very hot thing right now is sustainability. Um, and you know, people are really building sustainability into their strategy. It's no longer sort of just an E S G goal in itself. It's actually very much part of changing the way they do business. So I think that's the hard part. And that's why again, I think it's a phenomenal place to be. I think the other big thing that we're absolutely talking about a lot is, and you know, this is getting even more complicated right now is just around security and cyber security and where that's going and how can we be really thinking about how we address some of these concerns that are coming out and I think there's There's something. There's a lot to be said about the way we build our infrastructure in terms of that context. So I think that's the second one. I think the third one is. People are really looking at technology to change the way businesses operate. So how does HR operate? How do you improve your employee value proposition? How do you do marketing in the next generation? How do you do finance in the next generation? So across the business is no longer the place of I t. It really is about changing the way we are as businesses and all of us becoming tech companies at the core. So the big thing there, John, is data data at the heart of everything we do data not because it's there in front of you, but data because you can actually make decisions on the back of it. So those are the things, Um, I seem to come across a lot more than anything else. >>It's always great to talk to you, your senior leader at AWS, um, inspirational to many. And thank you for taking the time to speak with us here on this great event. Women in text. Global Celebration of International Women's Day. Thank you so much for your time. >>Thank you, John. Always great to talk to you. >>We will definitely be keeping in touch More storeys to be had and we're gonna bring it to you. This is the cubes continuing presentation of women in tech. A global event celebrating International Women's Day. I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>>Hello and welcome today's cube presentation of eight of us startup showcase. I'm john for your host highlighting the hottest companies and devops data analytics and cloud management lisa martin and David want are here to kick it off. We've got a great program for you again. This is our, our new community event model where we're doing every quarter, we have every new episode, this is quarter three this year or episode three, season one of the hottest cloud startups and we're gonna be featured. Then we're gonna do a keynote package and then 15 countries will present their story, Go check them out and then have a closing keynote with a practitioner and we've got some great lineups, lisa Dave, great to see you. Thanks for joining me. >>Hey guys, >>great to be here. So David got to ask you, you know, back in events last night we're at the 14 it's event where they had the golf PGA championship with the cube Now we got the hybrid model, This is the new normal. We're in, we got these great companies were showcasing them. What's your take? >>Well, you're right. I mean, I think there's a combination of things. We're seeing some live shows. We saw what we did with at mobile world Congress. We did the show with AWS storage day where it was, we were at the spheres, there was no, there was a live audience, but they weren't there physically. It was just virtual and yeah, so, and I just got pained about reinvent. Hey Dave, you gotta make your flights. So I'm making my flights >>were gonna be at the amazon web services, public sector summit next week. At least a lot, a lot of cloud convergence going on here. We got many companies being featured here that we spoke with the Ceo and their top people cloud management, devops data, nelson security. Really cutting edge companies, >>yes, cutting edge companies who are all focused on acceleration. We've talked about the acceleration of digital transformation the last 18 months and we've seen a tremendous amount of acceleration in innovation with what these startups are doing. We've talked to like you said, there's, there's C suite, we've also talked to their customers about how they are innovating so quickly with this hybrid environment, this remote work and we've talked a lot about security in the last week or so. You mentioned that we were at Fortinet cybersecurity skills gap. What some of these companies are doing with automation for example, to help shorten that gap, which is a big opportunity >>for the job market. Great stuff. Dave so the format of this event, you're going to have a fireside chat with the practitioner, we'd like to end these programs with a great experienced practitioner cutting edge in data february. The beginning lisa are gonna be kicking off with of course Jeff bar to give us the update on what's going on AWS and then a special presentation from Emily Freeman who is the author of devops for dummies, she's introducing new content. The revolution in devops devops two point oh and of course jerry Chen from Greylock cube alumni is going to come on and talk about his new thesis castles in the cloud creating moats at cloud scale. We've got a great lineup of people and so the front ends can be great. Dave give us a little preview of what people can expect at the end of the fireside chat. >>Well at the highest level john I've always said we're entering that sort of third great wave of cloud. First wave was experimentation. The second big wave was migration. The third wave of integration, Deep business integration and what you're >>going to hear from >>Hello Fresh today is how they like many companies that started early last decade. They started with an on prem Hadoop system and then of course we all know what happened is S three essentially took the knees out from, from the on prem Hadoop market lowered costs, brought things into the cloud and what Hello Fresh is doing is they're transforming from that legacy Hadoop system into its running on AWS but into a data mess, you know, it's a passionate topic of mine. Hello Fresh was scaling they realized that they couldn't keep up so they had to rethink their entire data architecture and they built it around data mesh Clements key and christoph Soewandi gonna explain how they actually did that are on a journey or decentralized data >>measure it and your posts have been awesome on data measure. We get a lot of traction. Certainly you're breaking analysis for the folks watching check out David Landes, Breaking analysis every week, highlighting the cutting edge trends in tech Dave. We're gonna see you later, lisa and I are gonna be here in the morning talking about with Emily. We got Jeff Barr teed up. Dave. Thanks for coming on. Looking forward to fireside chat lisa. We'll see you when Emily comes back on. But we're gonna go to Jeff bar right now for Dave and I are gonna interview Jeff. Mm >>Hey Jeff, >>here he is. Hey, how are you? How's it going really well. So I gotta ask you, the reinvent is on, everyone wants to know that's happening right. We're good with Reinvent. >>Reinvent is happening. I've got my hotel and actually listening today, if I just remembered, I still need to actually book my flights. I've got my to do list on my desk and I do need to get my >>flights. Uh, >>really looking forward >>to it. I can't wait to see the all the announcements and blog posts. We're gonna, we're gonna hear from jerry Chen later. I love the after on our next event. Get your reaction to this castle and castles in the cloud where competitive advantages can be built in the cloud. We're seeing examples of that. But first I gotta ask you give us an update of what's going on. The ap and ecosystem has been an incredible uh, celebration these past couple weeks, >>so, so a lot of different things happening and the interesting thing to me is that as part of my job, I often think that I'm effectively living in the future because I get to see all this really cool stuff that we're building just a little bit before our customers get to, and so I'm always thinking okay, here I am now, and what's the world going to be like in a couple of weeks to a month or two when these launches? I'm working on actually get out the door and that, that's always really, really fun, just kind of getting that, that little edge into where we're going, but this year was a little interesting because we had to really significant birthdays, we had the 15 year anniversary of both EC two and S three and we're so focused on innovating and moving forward, that it's actually pretty rare for us at Aws to look back and say, wow, we've actually done all these amazing things in in the last 15 years, >>you know, it's kind of cool Jeff, if I may is is, you know, of course in the early days everybody said, well, a place for startup is a W. S and now the great thing about the startup showcases, we're seeing the startups that >>are >>very near, or some of them have even reached escape velocity, so they're not, they're not tiny little companies anymore, they're in their transforming their respective industries, >>they really are and I think that as they start ups grow, they really start to lean into the power of the cloud. They as they start to think, okay, we've we've got our basic infrastructure in place, we've got, we were serving data, we're serving up a few customers, everything is actually working pretty well for us. We've got our fundamental model proven out now, we can invest in publicity and marketing and scaling and but they don't have to think about what's happening behind the scenes. They just if they've got their auto scaling or if they're survivalists, the infrastructure simply grows to meet their demand and it's it's just a lot less things that they have to worry about. They can focus on the fun part of their business which is actually listening to customers and building up an awesome business >>Jeff as you guys are putting together all the big pre reinvented, knows a lot of stuff that goes on prior as well and they say all the big good stuff to reinvent. But you start to see some themes emerged this year. One of them is modernization of applications, the speed of application development in the cloud with the cloud scale devops personas, whatever persona you want to talk about but basically speed the speed of of the app developers where other departments have been slowing things down, I won't say name names, but security group and I t I mean I shouldn't have said that but only kidding but no but seriously people want in minutes and seconds now not days or weeks. You know whether it's policy. What are some of the trends that you're seeing around this this year as we get into some of the new stuff coming out >>So Dave customers really do want speed and for we've actually encapsulate this for a long time in amazon in what we call the bias for action leadership principle >>where >>we just need to jump in and move forward and and make things happen. A lot of customers look at that and they say yes this is great. We need to have the same bias fraction. Some do. Some are still trying to figure out exactly how to put it into play. And they absolutely for sure need to pay attention to security. They need to respect the past and make sure that whatever they're doing is in line with I. T. But they do want to move forward. And the interesting thing that I see time and time again is it's not simply about let's adopt a new technology. It's how do we >>how do we keep our workforce >>engaged? How do we make sure that they've got the right training? How do we bring our our I. T. Team along for this. Hopefully new and fun and exciting journey where they get to learn some interesting new technologies they've got all this very much accumulated business knowledge they still want to put to use, maybe they're a little bit apprehensive about something brand new and they hear about the cloud, but there by and large, they really want to move forward. They just need a little bit of >>help to make it happen >>real good guys. One of the things you're gonna hear today, we're talking about speed traditionally going fast. Oftentimes you meant you have to sacrifice some things on quality and what you're going to hear from some of the startups today is how they're addressing that to automation and modern devoPS technologies and sort of rethinking that whole application development approach. That's something I'm really excited to see organization is beginning to adopt so they don't have to make that tradeoff anymore. >>Yeah, I would >>never want to see someone >>sacrifice quality, >>but I do think that iterating very quickly and using the best of devoPS principles to be able to iterate incredibly quickly and get that first launch out there and then listen with both ears just >>as much >>as you can, Everything. You hear iterate really quickly to meet those needs in, in hours and days, not months, quarters or years. >>Great stuff. Chef and a lot of the companies were featuring here in the startup showcase represent that new kind of thinking, um, systems thinking as well as you know, the cloud scale and again and it's finally here, the revolution of deVOps is going to the next generation and uh, we're excited to have Emily Freeman who's going to come on and give a little preview for her new talk on this revolution. So Jeff, thank you for coming on, appreciate you sharing the update here on the cube. Happy >>to be. I'm actually really looking forward to hearing from Emily. >>Yeah, it's great. Great. Looking forward to the talk. Brand new Premier, Okay, uh, lisa martin, Emily Freeman is here. She's ready to come in and we're going to preview her lightning talk Emily. Um, thanks for coming on, we really appreciate you coming on really, this is about to talk around deVOPS next gen and I think lisa this is one of those things we've been, we've been discussing with all the companies. It's a new kind of thinking it's a revolution, it's a systems mindset, you're starting to see the connections there she is. Emily, Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. >>Thank you for having me. So your teaser video >>was amazing. Um, you know, that little secret radical idea, something completely different. Um, you gotta talk coming up, what's the premise behind this revolution, you know, these tying together architecture, development, automation deployment, operating altogether. >>Yes, well, we have traditionally always used the sclc, which is the software delivery life cycle. Um, and it is a straight linear process that has actually been around since the sixties, which is wild to me um, and really originated in manufacturing. Um, and as much as I love the Toyota production system and how much it has shown up in devops as a sort of inspiration on how to run things better. We are not making cars, we are making software and I think we have to use different approaches and create a sort of model that better reflects our modern software development process. >>It's a bold idea and looking forward to the talk and as motivation. I went into my basement and dusted off all my books from college in the 80s and the sea estimates it was waterfall. It was software development life cycle. They trained us to think this way and it came from the mainframe people. It was like, it's old school, like really, really old and it really hasn't been updated. Where's the motivation? I actually cloud is kind of converging everything together. We see that, but you kind of hit on this persona thing. Where did that come from this persona? Because you know, people want to put people in buckets release engineer. I mean, where's that motivation coming from? >>Yes, you're absolutely right that it came from the mainframes. I think, you know, waterfall is necessary when you're using a punch card or mag tape to load things onto a mainframe, but we don't exist in that world anymore. Thank goodness. And um, yes, so we, we use personas all the time in tech, you know, even to register, well not actually to register for this event, but a lot events. A lot of events, you have to click that drop down. Right. Are you a developer? Are you a manager, whatever? And the thing is personas are immutable in my opinion. I was a developer. I will always identify as a developer despite playing a lot of different roles and doing a lot of different jobs. Uh, and this can vary throughout the day. Right. You might have someone who has a title of software architect who ends up helping someone pair program or develop or test or deploy. Um, and so we wear a lot of hats day to day and I think our discussions around roles would be a better, um, certainly a better approach than personas >>lease. And I've been discussing with many of these companies around the roles and we're hearing from them directly and they're finding out that people have, they're mixing and matching on teams. So you're, you're an S R E on one team and you're doing something on another team where the workflows and the workloads defined the team formation. So this is a cultural discussion. >>It absolutely is. Yes. I think it is a cultural discussion and it really comes to the heart of devops, right? It's people process. And then tools deVOps has always been about culture and making sure that developers have all the tools they need to be productive and honestly happy. What good is all of this? If developing software isn't a joyful experience. Well, >>I got to ask you, I got you here obviously with server list and functions just starting to see this kind of this next gen. And we're gonna hear from jerry Chen, who's a Greylock VC who's going to talk about castles in the clouds, where he's discussing the moats that could be created with a competitive advantage in cloud scale. And I think he points to the snowflakes of the world. You're starting to see this new thing happening. This is devops 2.0, this is the revolution. Is this kind of where you see the same vision of your talk? >>Yes, so DeVOps created 2000 and 8, 2000 and nine, totally different ecosystem in the world we were living in, you know, we didn't have things like surveillance and containers, we didn't have this sort of default distributed nature, certainly not the cloud. Uh and so I'm very excited for jerry's talk. I'm curious to hear more about these moz. I think it's fascinating. Um but yeah, you're seeing different companies use different tools and processes to accelerate their delivery and that is the competitive advantage. How can we figure out how to utilize these tools in the most efficient way possible. >>Thank you for coming and giving us a preview. Let's now go to your lightning keynote talk. Fresh content. Premier of this revolution in Devops and the Freemans Talk, we'll go there now. >>Hi, I'm Emily Freeman, I'm the author of devops for dummies and the curator of 97 things every cloud engineer should know. I am thrilled to be here with you all today. I am really excited to share with you a kind of a wild idea, a complete re imagining of the S DLC and I want to be clear, I need your feedback. I want to know what you think of this. You can always find me on twitter at editing. Emily, most of my work centers around deVOps and I really can't overstate what an impact the concept of deVOPS has had on this industry in many ways it built on the foundation of Agile to become a default a standard we all reach for in our everyday work. When devops surfaced as an idea in 2008, the tech industry was in a vastly different space. AWS was an infancy offering only a handful of services. Azure and G C P didn't exist yet. The majority's majority of companies maintained their own infrastructure. Developers wrote code and relied on sys admins to deploy new code at scheduled intervals. Sometimes months apart, container technology hadn't been invented applications adhered to a monolithic architecture, databases were almost exclusively relational and serverless wasn't even a concept. Everything from the application to the engineers was centralized. Our current ecosystem couldn't be more different. Software is still hard, don't get me wrong, but we continue to find novel solutions to consistently difficult, persistent problems. Now, some of these end up being a sort of rebranding of old ideas, but others are a unique and clever take to abstracting complexity or automating toil or perhaps most important, rethinking challenging the very premises we have accepted as Cannon for years, if not decades. In the years since deVOps attempted to answer the critical conflict between developers and operations, engineers, deVOps has become a catch all term and there have been a number of derivative works. Devops has come to mean 5000 different things to 5000 different people. For some, it can be distilled to continuous integration and continuous delivery or C I C D. For others, it's simply deploying code more frequently, perhaps adding a smattering of tests for others. Still, its organizational, they've added a platform team, perhaps even a questionably named DEVOPS team or have created an engineering structure that focuses on a separation of concerns. Leaving feature teams to manage the development, deployment, security and maintenance of their siloed services, say, whatever the interpretation, what's important is that there isn't a universally accepted standard. Well, what deVOPS is or what it looks like an execution, it's a philosophy more than anything else. A framework people can utilize to configure and customize their specific circumstances to modern development practices. The characteristic of deVOPS that I think we can all agree on though, is that an attempted to capture the challenges of the entire software development process. It's that broad umbrella, that holistic view that I think we need to breathe life into again, The challenge we face is that DeVOps isn't increasingly outmoded solution to a previous problem developers now face. Cultural and technical challenge is far greater than how to more quickly deploy a monolithic application. Cloud native is the future the next collection of default development decisions and one the deVOPS story can't absorb in its current form. I believe the era of deVOPS is waning and in this moment as the sun sets on deVOPS, we have a unique opportunity to rethink rebuild free platform. Even now, I don't have a crystal ball. That would be very handy. I'm not completely certain with the next decade of tech looks like and I can't write this story alone. I need you but I have some ideas that can get the conversation started, I believe to build on what was we have to throw away assumptions that we've taken for granted all this time in order to move forward. We must first step back. Mhm. The software or systems development life cycle, what we call the S. D. L. C. has been in use since the 1960s and it's remained more or less the same since before color television and the touch tone phone. Over the last 60 or so odd years we've made tweaks, slight adjustments, massaged it. The stages or steps are always a little different with agile and deVOps we sort of looped it into a circle and then an infinity loop we've added pretty colors. But the sclc is more or less the same and it has become an assumption. We don't even think about it anymore, universally adopted constructs like the sclc have an unspoken permanence. They feel as if they have always been and always will be. I think the impact of that is even more potent. If you were born after a construct was popularized. Nearly everything around us is a construct, a model, an artifact of a human idea. The chair you're sitting in the desk, you work at the mug from which you drink coffee or sometimes wine, buildings, toilets, plumbing, roads, cars, art, computers, everything. The sclc is a remnant an artifact of a previous era and I think we should throw it away or perhaps more accurately replace it, replace it with something that better reflects the actual nature of our work. A linear, single threaded model designed for the manufacturer of material goods cannot possibly capture the distributed complexity of modern socio technical systems. It just can't. Mhm. And these two ideas aren't mutually exclusive that the sclc was industry changing, valuable and extraordinarily impactful and that it's time for something new. I believe we are strong enough to hold these two ideas at the same time, showing respect for the past while envisioning the future. Now, I don't know about you, I've never had a software project goes smoothly in one go. No matter how small. Even if I'm the only person working on it and committing directly to master software development is chaos. It's a study and entropy and it is not getting any more simple. The model with which we think and talk about software development must capture the multithreaded, non sequential nature of our work. It should embody the roles engineers take on and the considerations they make along the way. It should build on the foundations of agile and devops and represent the iterative nature of continuous innovation. Now, when I was thinking about this, I was inspired by ideas like extreme programming and the spiral model. I I wanted something that would have layers, threads, even a way of visually representing multiple processes happening in parallel. And what I settled on is the revolution model. I believe the visualization of revolution is capable of capturing the pivotal moments of any software scenario. And I'm going to dive into all the discrete elements. But I want to give you a moment to have a first impression, to absorb my idea. I call it revolution because well for one it revolves, it's circular shape reflects the continuous and iterative nature of our work, but also because it is revolutionary. I am challenging a 60 year old model that is embedded into our daily language. I don't expect Gartner to build a magic quadrant around this tomorrow, but that would be super cool. And you should call me my mission with. This is to challenge the status quo to create a model that I think more accurately reflects the complexity of modern cloud native software development. The revolution model is constructed of five concentric circles describing the critical roles of software development architect. Ng development, automating, deploying and operating intersecting each loop are six spokes that describe the production considerations every engineer has to consider throughout any engineering work and that's test, ability, secure ability, reliability, observe ability, flexibility and scalability. The considerations listed are not all encompassing. There are of course things not explicitly included. I figured if I put 20 spokes, some of us, including myself, might feel a little overwhelmed. So let's dive into each element in this model. We have long used personas as the default way to do divide audiences and tailor messages to group people. Every company in the world right now is repeating the mantra of developers, developers, developers but personas have always bugged me a bit because this approach typically either oversimplifies someone's career are needlessly complicated. Few people fit cleanly and completely into persona based buckets like developers and operations anymore. The lines have gotten fuzzy on the other hand, I don't think we need to specifically tailor messages as to call out the difference between a devops engineer and a release engineer or a security administrator versus a security engineer but perhaps most critically, I believe personas are immutable. A persona is wholly dependent on how someone identifies themselves. It's intrinsic not extrinsic. Their titles may change their jobs may differ, but they're probably still selecting the same persona on that ubiquitous drop down. We all have to choose from when registering for an event. Probably this one too. I I was a developer and I will always identify as a developer despite doing a ton of work in areas like devops and Ai Ops and Deverell in my heart. I'm a developer I think about problems from that perspective. First it influences my thinking and my approach roles are very different. Roles are temporary, inconsistent, constantly fluctuating. If I were an actress, the parts I would play would be lengthy and varied, but the persona I would identify as would remain an actress and artist lesbian. Your work isn't confined to a single set of skills. It may have been a decade ago, but it is not today in any given week or sprint, you may play the role of an architect. Thinking about how to design a feature or service, developer building out code or fixing a bug and on automation engineer, looking at how to improve manual processes. We often refer to as soil release engineer, deploying code to different environments or releasing it to customers or in operations. Engineer ensuring an application functions inconsistent expected ways and no matter what role we play. We have to consider a number of issues. The first is test ability. All software systems require testing to assure architects that designs work developers, the code works operators, that infrastructure is running as expected and engineers of all disciplines that code changes won't bring down the whole system testing in its many forms is what enables systems to be durable and have longevity. It's what reassures engineers that changes won't impact current functionality. A system without tests is a disaster waiting to happen, which is why test ability is first among equals at this particular roundtable. Security is everyone's responsibility. But if you understand how to design and execute secure systems, I struggle with this security incidents for the most part are high impact, low probability events. The really big disasters, the one that the ones that end up on the news and get us all free credit reporting for a year. They don't happen super frequently and then goodness because you know that there are endless small vulnerabilities lurking in our systems. Security is something we all know we should dedicate time to but often don't make time for. And let's be honest, it's hard and complicated and a little scary def sec apps. The first derivative of deVOPS asked engineers to move security left this approach. Mint security was a consideration early in the process, not something that would block release at the last moment. This is also the consideration under which I'm putting compliance and governance well not perfectly aligned. I figure all the things you have to call lawyers for should just live together. I'm kidding. But in all seriousness, these three concepts are really about risk management, identity, data, authorization. It doesn't really matter what specific issue you're speaking about, the question is who has access to what win and how and that is everyone's responsibility at every stage site reliability engineering or sorry, is a discipline job and approach for good reason. It is absolutely critical that applications and services work as expected. Most of the time. That said, availability is often mistakenly treated as a synonym for reliability. Instead, it's a single aspect of the concept if a system is available but customer data is inaccurate or out of sync. The system is not reliable, reliability has five key components, availability, latency, throughput. Fidelity and durability, reliability is the end result. But resiliency for me is the journey the action engineers can take to improve reliability, observe ability is the ability to have insight into an application or system. It's the combination of telemetry and monitoring and alerting available to engineers and leadership. There's an aspect of observe ability that overlaps with reliability, but the purpose of observe ability isn't just to maintain a reliable system though, that is of course important. It is the capacity for engineers working on a system to have visibility into the inner workings of that system. The concept of observe ability actually originates and linear dynamic systems. It's defined as how well internal states of a system can be understood based on information about its external outputs. If it is critical when companies move systems to the cloud or utilize managed services that they don't lose visibility and confidence in their systems. The shared responsibility model of cloud storage compute and managed services require that engineering teams be able to quickly be alerted to identify and remediate issues as they arise. Flexible systems are capable of adapting to meet the ever changing needs of the customer and the market segment, flexible code bases absorb new code smoothly. Embody a clean separation of concerns. Are partitioned into small components or classes and architected to enable the now as well as the next inflexible systems. Change dependencies are reduced or eliminated. Database schemas accommodate change well components, communicate via a standardized and well documented A. P. I. The only thing constant in our industry is change and every role we play, creating flexibility and solutions that can be flexible that will grow as the applications grow is absolutely critical. Finally, scalability scalability refers to more than a system's ability to scale for additional load. It implies growth scalability and the revolution model carries the continuous innovation of a team and the byproducts of that growth within a system. For me, scalability is the most human of the considerations. It requires each of us in our various roles to consider everyone around us, our customers who use the system or rely on its services, our colleagues current and future with whom we collaborate and even our future selves. Mhm. Software development isn't a straight line, nor is it a perfect loop. It is an ever changing complex dance. There are twirls and pivots and difficult spins forward and backward. Engineers move in parallel, creating truly magnificent pieces of art. We need a modern model for this modern era and I believe this is just the revolution to get us started. Thank you so much for having me. >>Hey, we're back here. Live in the keynote studio. I'm john for your host here with lisa martin. David lot is getting ready for the fireside chat ending keynote with the practitioner. Hello! Fresh without data mesh lisa Emily is amazing. The funky artwork there. She's amazing with the talk. I was mesmerized. It was impressive. >>The revolution of devops and the creative element was a really nice surprise there. But I love what she's doing. She's challenging the status quo. If we've learned nothing in the last year and a half, We need to challenge the status quo. A model from the 1960s that is no longer linear. What she's doing is revolutionary. >>And we hear this all the time. All the cube interviews we do is that you're seeing the leaders, the SVP's of engineering or these departments where there's new new people coming in that are engineering or developers, they're playing multiple roles. It's almost a multidisciplinary aspect where you know, it's like going into in and out burger in the fryer later and then you're doing the grill, you're doing the cashier, people are changing roles or an architect, their test release all in one no longer departmental, slow siloed groups. >>She brought up a great point about persona is that we no longer fit into these buckets. That the changing roles. It's really the driver of how we should be looking at this. >>I think I'm really impressed, really bold idea, no brainer as far as I'm concerned, I think one of the things and then the comments were off the charts in a lot of young people come from discord servers. We had a good traction over there but they're all like learning. Then you have the experience, people saying this is definitely has happened and happening. The dominoes are falling and they're falling in the direction of modernization. That's the key trend speed. >>Absolutely with speed. But the way that Emily is presenting it is not in a brash bold, but it's in a way that makes great sense. The way that she creatively visually lined out what she was talking about Is amenable to the folks that have been doing this for since the 60s and the new folks now to really look at this from a different >>lens and I think she's a great setup on that lightning top of the 15 companies we got because you think about sis dig harness. I white sourced flamingo hacker one send out, I oh, okay. Thought spot rock set Sarah Ops ramp and Ops Monte cloud apps, sani all are doing modern stuff and we talked to them and they're all on this new wave, this monster wave coming. What's your observation when you talk to these companies? >>They are, it was great. I got to talk with eight of the 15 and the amount of acceleration of innovation that they've done in the last 18 months is phenomenal obviously with the power and the fuel and the brand reputation of aws but really what they're all facilitating cultural shift when we think of devoPS and the security folks. Um, there's a lot of work going on with ai to an automation to really kind of enabled to develop the develops folks to be in control of the process and not have to be security experts but ensuring that the security is baked in shifting >>left. We saw that the chat room was really active on the security side and one of the things I noticed was not just shift left but the other groups, the security groups and the theme of cultural, I won't say war but collision cultural shift that's happening between the groups is interesting because you have this new devops persona has been around Emily put it out for a while. But now it's going to the next level. There's new revolutions about a mindset, a systems mindset. It's a thinking and you start to see the new young companies coming out being funded by the gray locks of the world who are now like not going to be given the we lost the top three clouds one, everything. there's new business models and new technical architecture in the cloud and that's gonna be jerry Chen talk coming up next is going to be castles in the clouds because jerry chant always talked about moats, competitive advantage and how moats are key to success to guard the castle. And then we always joke, there's no more moz because the cloud has killed all the boats. But now the motor in the cloud, the castles are in the cloud, not on the ground. So very interesting thought provoking. But he's got data and if you look at the successful companies like the snowflakes of the world, you're starting to see these new formations of this new layer of innovation where companies are growing rapidly, 98 unicorns now in the cloud. Unbelievable, >>wow, that's a lot. One of the things you mentioned, there's competitive advantage and these startups are all fueled by that they know that there are other companies in the rear view mirror right behind them. If they're not able to work as quickly and as flexibly as a competitor, they have to have that speed that time to market that time to value. It was absolutely critical. And that's one of the things I think thematically that I saw along the eighth sort of that I talked to is that time to value is absolutely table stakes. >>Well, I'm looking forward to talking to jerry chan because we've talked on the queue before about this whole idea of What happens when winner takes most would mean the top 3, 4 cloud players. What happens? And we were talking about that and saying, if you have a model where an ecosystem can develop, what does that look like and back in 2013, 2014, 2015, no one really had an answer. Jerry was the only BC. He really nailed it with this castles in the cloud. He nailed the idea that this is going to happen. And so I think, you know, we'll look back at the tape or the videos from the cube, we'll find those cuts. But we were talking about this then we were pontificating and riffing on the fact that there's going to be new winners and they're gonna look different as Andy Jassy always says in the cube you have to be misunderstood if you're really going to make something happen. Most of the most successful companies are misunderstood. Not anymore. The cloud scales there. And that's what's exciting about all this. >>It is exciting that the scale is there, the appetite is there the appetite to challenge the status quo, which is right now in this economic and dynamic market that we're living in is there's nothing better. >>One of the things that's come up and and that's just real quick before we bring jerry in is automation has been insecurity, absolutely security's been in every conversation, but automation is now so hot in the sense of it's real and it's becoming part of all the design decisions. How can we automate can we automate faster where the keys to automation? Is that having the right data, What data is available? So I think the idea of automation and Ai are driving all the change and that's to me is what these new companies represent this modern error where AI is built into the outcome and the apps and all that infrastructure. So it's super exciting. Um, let's check in, we got jerry Chen line at least a great. We're gonna come back after jerry and then kick off the day. Let's bring in jerry Chen from Greylock is he here? Let's bring him in there. He is. >>Hey john good to see you. >>Hey, congratulations on an amazing talk and thesis on the castles on the cloud. Thanks for coming on. >>All right, Well thanks for reading it. Um, always were being put a piece of workout out either. Not sure what the responses, but it seemed to resonate with a bunch of developers, founders, investors and folks like yourself. So smart people seem to gravitate to us. So thank you very much. >>Well, one of the benefits of doing the Cube for 11 years, Jerry's we have videotape of many, many people talking about what the future will hold. You kind of are on this early, it wasn't called castles in the cloud, but you were all I was, we had many conversations were kind of connecting the dots in real time. But you've been on this for a while. It's great to see the work. I really think you nailed this. I think you're absolutely on point here. So let's get into it. What is castles in the cloud? New research to come out from Greylock that you spearheaded? It's collaborative effort, but you've got data behind it. Give a quick overview of what is castle the cloud, the new modes of competitive advantage for companies. >>Yeah, it's as a group project that our team put together but basically john the question is, how do you win in the cloud? Remember the conversation we had eight years ago when amazon re event was holy cow, Like can you compete with them? Like is it a winner? Take all? Winner take most And if it is winner take most, where are the white spaces for Some starts to to emerge and clearly the past eight years in the cloud this journey, we've seen big companies, data breaks, snowflakes, elastic Mongo data robot. And so um they spotted the question is, you know, why are the castles in the cloud? The big three cloud providers, Amazon google and Azure winning. You know, what advantage do they have? And then given their modes of scale network effects, how can you as a startup win? And so look, there are 500 plus services between all three cloud vendors, but there are like 500 plus um startups competing gets a cloud vendors and there's like almost 100 unicorn of private companies competing successfully against the cloud vendors, including public companies. So like Alaska, Mongo Snowflake. No data breaks. Not public yet. Hashtag or not public yet. These are some examples of the names that I think are winning and watch this space because you see more of these guys storm the castle if you will. >>Yeah. And you know one of the things that's a funny metaphor because it has many different implications. One, as we talk about security, the perimeter of the gates, the moats being on land. But now you're in the cloud, you have also different security paradigm. You have a different um, new kinds of services that are coming on board faster than ever before. Not just from the cloud players but From companies contributing into the ecosystem. So the combination of the big three making the market the main markets you, I think you call 31 markets that we know of that probably maybe more. And then you have this notion of a sub market, which means that there's like we used to call it white space back in the day, remember how many whites? Where's the white space? I mean if you're in the cloud, there's like a zillion white spaces. So talk about this sub market dynamic between markets and that are being enabled by the cloud players and how these sub markets play into it. >>Sure. So first, the first problem was what we did. We downloaded all the services for the big three clowns. Right? And you know what as recalls a database or database service like a document DB and amazon is like Cosmo dB and Azure. So first thing first is we had to like look at all three cloud providers and you? Re categorize all the services almost 500 Apples, Apples, Apples # one number two is you look at all these markets or sub markets and said, okay, how can we cluster these services into things that you know you and I can rock right. That's what amazon Azure and google think about. It is very different and the beauty of the cloud is this kind of fat long tail of services for developers. So instead of like oracle is a single database for all your needs. They're like 20 or 30 different databases from time series um analytics, databases. We're talking rocks at later today. Right. Um uh, document databases like Mongo search database like elastic. And so what happens is there's not one giant market like databases, there's a database market And 30, 40 sub markets that serve the needs developers. So the Great News is cloud has reduced the cost and create something that new for developers. Um also the good news is for a start up you can find plenty of white speeds solving a pain point, very specific to a different type of problem >>and you can sequence up to power law to this. I love the power of a metaphor, you know, used to be a very thin neck note no torso and then a long tail. But now as you're pointing out this expansion of the fat tail of services, but also there's big tam's and markets available at the top of the power law where you see coming like snowflake essentially take on the data warehousing market by basically sitting on amazon re factoring with new services and then getting a flywheel completely changing the economic unit economics completely changing the consumption model completely changing the value proposition >>literally you >>get Snowflake has created like a storm, create a hole, that mode or that castle wall against red shift. Then companies like rock set do your real time analytics is Russian right behind snowflakes saying, hey snowflake is great for data warehouse but it's not fast enough for real time analytics. Let me give you something new to your, to your parallel argument. Even the big optic snowflake have created kind of a wake behind them that created even more white space for Gaza rock set. So that's exciting for guys like me and >>you. And then also as we were talking about our last episode two or quarter two of our showcase. Um, from a VC came on, it's like the old shelf where you didn't know if a company's successful until they had to return the inventory now with cloud you if you're not successful, you know it right away. It's like there's no debate. Like, I mean you're either winning or not. This is like that's so instrumented so a company can have a good better mousetrap and win and fill the white space and then move up. >>It goes both ways. The cloud vendor, the big three amazon google and Azure for sure. They instrument their own class. They know john which ecosystem partners doing well in which ecosystems doing poorly and they hear from the customers exactly what they want. So it goes both ways they can weaponize that. And just as well as you started to weaponize that info >>and that's the big argument of do that snowflake still pays the amazon bills. They're still there. So again, repatriation comes back, That's a big conversation that's come up. What's your quick take on that? Because if you're gonna have a castle in the cloud, then you're gonna bring it back to land. I mean, what's that dynamic? Where do you see that compete? Because on one hand is innovation. The other ones maybe cost efficiency. Is that a growth indicator slow down? What's your view on the movement from and to the cloud? >>I think there's probably three forces you're finding here. One is the cost advantage in the scale advantage of cloud so that I think has been going for the past eight years, there's a repatriation movement for a certain subset of customers, I think for cost purposes makes sense. I think that's a tiny handful that believe they can actually run things better than a cloud. The third thing we're seeing around repatriation is not necessary against cloud, but you're gonna see more decentralized clouds and things pushed to the edge. Right? So you look at companies like Cloudflare Fastly or a company that we're investing in Cato networks. All ideas focus on secure access at the edge. And so I think that's not the repatriation of my own data center, which is kind of a disaggregated of cloud from one giant monolithic cloud, like AWS east or like a google region in europe to multiple smaller clouds for governance purposes, security purposes or legacy purposes. >>So I'm looking at my notes here, looking down on the screen here for this to read this because it's uh to cut and paste from your thesis on the cloud. The excellent cloud. The of the $38 billion invested this quarter. Um Ai and ml number one, um analytics. Number two, security number three. Actually, security number one. But you can see the bubbles here. So all those are data problems I need to ask you. I see data is hot data as intellectual property. How do you look at that? Because we've been reporting on this and we just started the cube conversation around workflows as intellectual property. If you have scale and your motives in the cloud. You could argue that data and the workflows around those data streams is intellectual property. It's a protocol >>I believe both are. And they just kind of go hand in hand like peanut butter and jelly. Right? So data for sure. I. P. So if you know people talk about days in the oil, the new resource. That's largely true because of powers a bunch. But the workflow to your point john is sticky because every company is a unique snowflake right? Like the process used to run the cube and your business different how we run our business. So if you can build a workflow that leverages the data, that's super sticky. So in terms of switching costs, if my work is very bespoke to your business, then I think that's competitive advantage. >>Well certainly your workflow is a lot different than the cube. You guys just a lot of billions of dollars in capital. We're talking to all the people out here jerry. Great to have you on final thought on your thesis. Where does it go from here? What's been the reaction? Uh No, you put it out there. Great love the restart. Think you're on point on this one. Where did we go from here? >>We have to follow pieces um in the near term one around, you know, deep diver on open source. So look out for that pretty soon and how that's been a powerful strategy a second. Is this kind of just aggregation of the cloud be a Blockchain and you know, decentralized apps, be edge applications. So that's in the near term two more pieces of, of deep dive we're doing. And then the goal here is to update this on a quarterly and annual basis. So we're getting submissions from founders that wanted to say, hey, you missed us or he screwed up here. We got the big cloud vendors saying, Hey jerry, we just lost his new things. So our goal here is to update this every single year and then probably do look back saying, okay, uh, where were we wrong? We're right. And then let's say the castle clouds 2022. We'll see the difference were the more unicorns were there more services were the IPO's happening. So look for some short term work from us on analytics, like around open source and clouds. And then next year we hope that all of this forward saying, Hey, you have two year, what's happening? What's changing? >>Great stuff and, and congratulations on the southern news. You guys put another half a billion dollars into early, early stage, which is your roots. Are you still doing a lot of great investments in a lot of unicorns. Congratulations that. Great luck on the team. Thanks for coming on and congratulations you nailed this one. I think I'm gonna look back and say that this is a pretty seminal piece of work here. Thanks for sharing. >>Thanks john thanks for having us. >>Okay. Okay. This is the cube here and 81 startup showcase. We're about to get going in on all the hot companies closing out the kino lisa uh, see jerry Chen cube alumni. He was right from day one. We've been riffing on this, but he nails it here. I think Greylock is lucky to have him as a general partner. He's done great deals, but I think he's hitting the next wave big. This is, this is huge. >>I was listening to you guys talking thinking if if you had a crystal ball back in 2013, some of the things Jerry saying now his narrative now, what did he have a crystal >>ball? He did. I mean he could be a cuBA host and I could be a venture capital. We were both right. I think so. We could have been, you know, doing that together now and all serious now. He was right. I mean, we talked off camera about who's the next amazon who's going to challenge amazon and Andy Jassy was quoted many times in the queue by saying, you know, he was surprised that it took so long for people to figure out what they were doing. Okay, jerry was that VM where he had visibility into the cloud. He saw amazon right away like we did like this is a winning formula and so he was really out front on this one. >>Well in the investments that they're making in these unicorns is exciting. They have this, this lens that they're able to see the opportunities there almost before anybody else can. And finding more white space where we didn't even know there was any. >>Yeah. And what's interesting about the report I'm gonna dig into and I want to get to him while he's on camera because it's a great report, but He says it's like 500 services I think Amazon has 5000. So how you define services as an interesting thing and a lot of amazon services that they have as your doesn't have and vice versa, they do call that out. So I find the report interesting. It's gonna be a feature game in the future between clouds the big three. They're gonna say we do this, you're starting to see the formation, Google's much more developer oriented. Amazon is much more stronger in the governance area with data obviously as he pointed out, they have such experience Microsoft, not so much their developer cloud and more office, not so much on the government's side. So that that's an indicator of my, my opinion of kind of where they rank. So including the number one is still amazon web services as your long second place, way behind google, right behind Azure. So we'll see how the horses come in, >>right. And it's also kind of speaks to the hybrid world in which we're living the hybrid multi cloud world in which many companies are living as companies to not just survive in the last year and a half, but to thrive and really have to become data companies and leverage that data as a competitive advantage to be able to unlock the value of it. And a lot of these startups that we talked to in the showcase are talking about how they're helping organizations unlock that data value. As jerry said, it is the new oil, it's the new gold. Not unless you can unlock that value faster than your competition. >>Yeah, well, I'm just super excited. We got a great day ahead of us with with all the cots startups. And then at the end day, Volonte is gonna interview, hello, fresh practitioners, We're gonna close it out every episode now, we're going to do with the closing practitioner. We try to get jpmorgan chase data measures. The hottest area right now in the enterprise data is new competitive advantage. We know that data workflows are now intellectual property. You're starting to see data really factoring into these applications now as a key aspect of the competitive advantage and the value creation. So companies that are smart are investing heavily in that and the ones that are kind of slow on the uptake are lagging the market and just trying to figure it out. So you start to see that transition and you're starting to see people fall away now from the fact that they're not gonna make it right, You're starting to, you know, you can look at look at any happens saying how much ai is really in there. Real ai what's their data strategy and you almost squint through that and go, okay, that's gonna be losing application. >>Well the winners are making it a board level conversation >>And security isn't built in. Great to have you on this morning kicking it off. Thanks John Okay, we're going to go into the next set of the program at 10:00 we're going to move into the breakouts. Check out the companies is three tracks in there. We have an awesome track on devops pure devops. We've got the data and analytics and we got the cloud management and just to run down real quick check out the sis dig harness. Io system is doing great, securing devops harness. IO modern software delivery platform, White Source. They're preventing and remediating the rest of the internet for them for the company's that's a really interesting and lumbago, effortless acres land and monitoring functions, server list super hot. And of course hacker one is always great doing a lot of great missions and and bounties you see those success continue to send i O there in Palo alto changing the game on data engineering and data pipe lining. Okay. Data driven another new platform, horizontally scalable and of course thought spot ai driven kind of a search paradigm and of course rock set jerry Chen's companies here and press are all doing great in the analytics and then the cloud management cost side 80 operations day to operate. Ops ramps and ops multi cloud are all there and sunny, all all going to present. So check them out. This is the Cubes Adria's startup showcase episode three.

>>Hi, I'm Emily Freeman, I'm the author of devops for dummies and the curator of 97 things every cloud engineer should know. I am thrilled to be here with you all today. >>I'm really excited to share with you a kind of a wild idea. A complete re imagining >>of the S DLC >>and I want to be clear, I need your feedback. I want to >>know what you think of this. You can always find me >>on twitter at editing. Emily, >>most of my work centers around devops and I really >>can't overstate what an impact >>the concept of devoPS has had on this industry >>in many ways it built on the foundation of agile to become a default a standard we all reach for in our everyday work. >>When devops surfaced as an idea in 2000 >>and eight, the tech industry was in a vastly different space. >>AWS was an infancy >>offering. Only a handful >>of services, >>Azure and G C P didn't exist yet. The majority's majority of companies maintained their own infrastructure. >>Developers wrote code and relied on sys admins to deploy new code at scheduled intervals. Sometimes months apart, container technology hadn't been invented. >>Applications adhered >>to a monolithic architecture, databases were almost exclusively relational >>and serverless wasn't even a concept. Everything from the application to the engineers >>was centralized. >>Our current ecosystem couldn't >>be more different. Software is still hard. Don't get me wrong, >>but we continue to find novel solutions to consistently difficult, persistent problems. >>Now, some of these end up being a sort of rebranding of old ideas >>but others are a unique and clever take to abstracting complexity >>or >>automating toil or >>perhaps most important, >>rethinking challenging the very >>premises we have accepted as Cannon for years, if not decades. >>In the years since deVOps attempted to answer the critical conflict between developers and operations engineers. Devops has become a catch all term >>and there have been a number of >>derivative works. DeVos has come to mean 5000 different things to 5000 different people. For some, it can be distilled >>to continuous integration and continuous delivery or C I C D. For others, it's >>simply deploying code more frequently, perhaps adding a smattering of tests >>for others. Still its organizational, they've added a platform team, perhaps even a >>questionably named DevoPS team or have created an engineering structure that focuses on a separation of concerns, leaving feature teams to manage the development, >>deployment, security and maintenance of their siloed services. Whatever >>the interpretation, what's important is that there isn't a universally accepted >>standard, well what deVOPS is or what it looks like an execution, it's a philosophy more than anything else. >>A framework people can utilize to configure >>and customize >>their specific circumstances >>to modern development practices. The characteristic of DEVOPS that I think we can all >>agree on though, is that an attempted to capture the challenges of the entire >>software development process. It's that broad >>umbrella, that holistic view that I think we need to breathe life into again, The challenge we face >>is that devops isn't >>increasingly outmoded solution to a >>previous problem developers now face >>cultural and technical challenge is far greater than how to more quickly deploy a monolithic application >>cloud native is the future. The next collection of default development decisions >>and one the deVOps story can't absorb in its current form. >>I believe the era of devops is waning and in this moment as the sun sets on >>deVOps, we have a unique opportunity to rethink >>rebuild free platform. Even now, I don't have a crystal ball that would be >>very handy. >>I'm not completely certain with the next decade of tech looks like >>and I can't write this story alone. I need you >>but I have some ideas >>that can get the conversation >>started, I believe to >>build on what was we have to throw away assumptions >>that we've taken for granted all this time in order to move forward. We must first step back. Mhm. The software or systems development life cycle, what we call the S DLC >>has been in use since the 1960s and it's remained more or less the same since before >>color television >>and the touch tone phone >>Over the last 60 or so odd years we've made tweaks, slight adjustments, massaged it. The stages or steps are always a little different >>with agile and devops we sort of looped it into a circle >>and then an infinity loop. >>We've added pretty colors. But the sclc >>is more or less >>the same and it has become an assumption. We don't even think about it anymore, >>universally adopted constructs like the sclc have an unspoken >>permanence. They feel as if they have always been and always will be. I think the impact of that is even more potent. If you were born after a >>construct was popularized, nearly everything around us is a construct. A model, an artifact of >>a human idea. >>The chair you're sitting in the >>desk, you work at the mug from which you drink coffee or sometimes wine, >>buildings, toilets, >>plumbing, roads, cars, art, computers, everything. The splc is a remnant an artifact of a previous era and I think we should throw it away >>or perhaps more accurately replace >>it, replace it with something that better reflects the actual nature of our work. A linear, single threaded model designed for the manufacturer of material goods cannot possibly capture the distributed >>complexity of modern socio technical systems. >>It just can't. Mhm. >>And these two ideas aren't mutually exclusive that >>the sclc was industry changing, valuable and extraordinarily impactful and that it's time for something new. I believe we are strong enough to hold these two ideas at the same time showing respect for the past while envisioning the future. >>No, I don't know about you. I've never had a software project goes smoothly in one >>go, no matter how small, even if I'm the only person working on it and committing directly to master >>Software development >>is chaos. It's a study and entropy and it is not getting any more simple. The model with which we think and talk about software development must capture the multithreaded, non sequential nature of our work. It should embody the roles engineers take on and the considerations they make along the way. It should build on the foundations >>of agile >>and devops and represent the iterative nature of continuous innovation. >>Now when I was thinking about this I was inspired by ideas like extreme programming and the spiral model. Yeah >>I wanted something that would have layers, >>threads, even a way >>of visually representing multiple processes happening in parallel. >>And what I settled on is the revolution model. >>I believe the visualization of revolution is capable of capturing the pivotal moments of any software scenario >>and I'm going to dive into all the discrete elements but I want to give you a moment to have a first impression to absorb >>my idea. >>I call it revolution because well for one it revolves, >>it's circular shape reflects the continuous and iterative nature of our work. >>But also because it is >>revolutionary. I am challenging a 60 year old model that is embedded into our daily language. I don't expect Gartner to build a magic quadrant around this tomorrow but that would be super cool and you should call me my mission with this is to challenge the status quo. To create a model that I think more accurately reflects the complexity of modern cloud. Native >>software development. The revolution model is constructed of five concentric circles describing the critical roles of software development architect. Ng development, >>automating, >>deploying and operating >>intersecting each loop are six >>spokes >>that describe the production considerations every engineer has to consider throughout any engineering work and that's test, >>ability, secure ability, reliability, observe ability, flexibility and scalability. The considerations listed >>are not all >>encompassing. There are of course things not explicitly included. I figured if I put 20 spokes, some of us, including myself, might feel a little overwhelmed. So let's dive into each element in this model, >>we have long used personas as the default way to do divide >>audiences and tailor messages to group people. >>Every company in the world right now is repeating the mantra of developers, developers, developers, but personas have >>always bugged me a bit >>because this approach typically >>either oversimplifies someone's career >>are needlessly complicated. Few people fit cleanly and completely >>into persona based buckets like developers and >>operations anymore. The lines have gotten fuzzy on the other hand, I don't think we need to specifically tailor >>messages >>as to call out the difference between a devops engineer and a release engineer or security administrator versus a security engineer. But perhaps most critically, I believe personas are immutable. Mhm. A persona is wholly dependent on how someone identifies themselves. It's intrinsic not extrinsic. Their titles may change their jobs may differ but they're probably >>still selecting the same persona on that ubiquitous drop down. We all have to choose >>from when registering for an >>event. Probably this one too. I I was a developer and I will always identify as a developer despite doing a ton of work in areas like devops and Ai ops and Deverell >>in my heart. I'm a developer I think about problems from that perspective. First it influences my thinking and my approach. Mhm roles are very different. Roles are temporary, >>inconsistent, >>constantly fluctuating. If I were an actress, the parts I would play would be lengthy and varied but the persona I would identify as would remain an actress and artist >>lesbian. >>Your work isn't confined >>to a single set of skills. It may have been a decade ago but it is not today >>in any given week or sprint. You may play the role of an architect thinking about how to design a feature or service, >>developer, building out code or fixing a bug >>and on automation engineer, looking at how to improve manual >>processes. We often refer to as soil release engineer, deploying code to different environments or releasing it to customers. >>We're in operations. Engineer, ensuring an application functions >>inconsistent expected ways >>and no matter what role we play. We have to consider a number of issues. >>The first is test ability. All software systems require >>testing to assure architects >>that designs work developers that code works operators, that >>infrastructure is running as expected >>and engineers of all disciplines >>that code changes won't >>bring down the whole system testing >>in its many forms >>is what enables >>systems to be durable and have >>longevity. It's what reassures engineers that changes >>won't impact current functionality. A system without tests >>is a disaster waiting to happen. Which is why test ability >>is first among >>equals at this particular roundtable. Security is everyone's responsibility. But if you understand how to design and execute secure systems, I struggle with this security incidents for the most >>part are high impact, low >>probability events. The really big disasters, the one that the ones that end up on the news and get us all free credit reporting >>for a year. They don't happen super frequently and >>then goodness because you know that there are >>endless small >>vulnerabilities lurking in our systems. >>Security is something we all know we should dedicate time to but often don't make time for. >>And let's be honest, it's hard and >>complicated >>and a little scary. The cops. The first derivative of deVOPS asked engineers >>to move >>security left this approach. Mint security was a consideration >>early in the process, not something that would block >>release at the last moment. >>This is also the consideration under which I'm putting compliance >>and governance >>well not perfectly aligned. I figure all the things you have to call lawyers for should just live together. >>I'm kidding. But >>in all seriousness, these three concepts >>are really about >>risk management, >>identity, >>data, authorization. It doesn't really matter what specific issue you're speaking about. The question >>is who has access to what, when and how and that is everyone's responsibility at every stage, site, reliability, engineering or SRE is a discipline and job and approach for good reason, it is absolutely >>critical that >>applications and services work as expected. Most of the time. That said, availability is often mistakenly >>treated as a synonym >>for reliability. Instead, it's a single aspect of the concept if a system is available but customer data is inaccurate or out of sync. >>The system is >>not reliable, reliability has five key components, availability latency through but fidelity and durability, reliability >>is the end result. But resiliency for me is the journey the action engineers >>can take to improve reliability, observe ability is the ability to have insight into an application or >>system. It's the combination of telemetry and monitoring and alerting available to engineers >>and leadership. There's an aspect of observe ability that overlaps with reliability but the purpose of observe ability >>isn't just to maintain a reliable system though, that is of course important. It is the capacity for engineers working on a system to have visibility into the inner >>workings of that system. The concept of observe ability actually >>originates and linear >>dynamic systems. It's defined as how well internal states of a system can be understood based on information about its external outputs when it is critical when companies move systems to the cloud or utilize managed services that they don't lose visibility and confidence in their systems. The shared >>responsibility model >>of cloud storage compute and managed services >>require that engineering teams be able to quickly be alerted to identify and remediate >>issues as they arise, flexible systems are capable of >>adapting to meet the ever changing >>needs of the customer and the market segment, flexible code bases absorb new code smoothly. Embody a clean separation of concerns, are partitioned into small components or classes >>and architected to enable the Now as >>well as the next inflexible systems. Change dependencies are reduced or eliminated. Database schemas, accommodate change well components communicate via a standardized and well documented A. P. I. >>The only thing >>constant in our industry is >>change and every role we play, >>creating flexibility and solutions that can be >>flexible that will grow >>as the applications grow >>is absolutely critical. >>Finally, scalability scalability refers to more than a system's ability to scale for additional >>load. It implies growth >>scalability in the revolution model carries the continuous >>innovation of a team >>and the byproducts of that growth within a system. For me, scalability is the most human of the considerations. It requires each of us in our various roles >>to consider everyone >>around us, our customers who use the system or rely on its services, our colleagues, >>current and future with whom we collaborate and even our future selves. Mhm. >>Software development isn't a straight line, nor is it a perfect loop. >>It isn't ever changing complex dance. >>There are twirls and pivots and difficult spins >>forward and backward engineers move in parallel, creating truly magnificent pieces of art. We need a modern >>model for this modern >>era, and I believe this is just the >>revolution to get us started. Thank you so much for having me. Mm.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. Welcome back, I'm still minimum and this is the Cubes coverage of VM World 2020 our 11th year doing the Cube. First year. We're doing it, of course, virtually globally. Happy to welcome back to the program. One of our Cube alumni, Shannon Champion, and she is the director of product marketing with Dell Technologies. Cannon. Nice to see you and thanks so much for joining us. >>Thanks for having me. Good to see you as well. >>Alright, So big thing, of course, at VM World, talking about building off of what was Project Pacific at last year's show? Talking about how kubernetes all the wonderful cloud native pieces go in. So let's let's talk about application modernization. Shannon, you know, with a theme I've talked about for a number of years, is you know, we need to modernize the platform, and then we can modernize the applications on top of those. So tell us what you're hearing from your customers and how Delon Vm Ware then are bringing the solutions to help customers really along that journey. >>Yeah, I'd love Thio. It's fun stuff. So, um, enterprises are telling us that especially now more than ever, they're really looking for how they must digitally transform. And they need to do that so they can drive innovation and get a competitive advantage on one way. That they're able to do that is by finding ways to flexibly and rapidly move work loads to where they make sense, whether that's on premises or in the public cloud. And the new standard for doing this is becoming cloud native applications. There was a recent I. D. C. Future Escape that predicted that by 2025 2 3rd of enterprises will be prolific software producers with code being deployed on a daily basis, and over 90% of applications at that time will be delivered with cognitive approaches. So it's just kind of crazy to think, and what's really impressive to is that the sheer volume of applications that are anticipated to be produced with these cloud native approaches Ah, it's expected to be over 500 million new APS created with club approaches by 2024 just kind of putting that into perspective 500 million. APS is the same number that's been created over the last 40 years. So it's a fun, fun trend to be part of. >>Yeah, it's really amazing. When I talked to customers, there's some It's like, Oh, let me show you how Maney APs I've done and created in the last 18 months. It was like, Great. How does that compare before? And they're like, we weren't creating APS. We were buying APS. We were buying software. We have outsourced some of those pieces. So you know that that that trend we've been talking about for a number of years is kind of everyone's a software company, Um, does not mean that, you know, we're getting rid of the old business models. But Shannon, there are challenges there either expanding and moving faster or, you know, making sure that I have the talent in house. So bring us inside. What if some of the big things that your customers were telling you, maybe that's holding them back from unlocking that potential? >>Yeah, totally. You hit on a couple of them, you know, we're definitely seeing a lot of interest in adoption of kubernetes and clearly vm Ware is leading the way with Changzhou. But we're also hearing that they're underestimating the challenges on how toe quote unquote get to kubernetes. Right? How do you stand up that full cloud native staff and particularly at scale Thio? How do you manage the ongoing operations and maintain that infrastructure? How do you support the various stakeholders? How do you bring I t operators and developers together? Eso There's really a wide range of challenges that, um businesses air facing. And the other thing is that you hit on, you know, they're gonna be producing Mawr and Mawr cloud native applications, but they still need to maintain legacy applications, many of which are driving business critical applications and workloads. So they're going to need to look for solutions that help them manage both and allow them to re factor or retire those legacy ones at their own pace so they can maintain business continuity. >>Yeah, and of course, Shannon, we know as infrastructure people, our job was always toe, you know, give the environment to allow the applications to run in virtualization. For years, it was Well, I knew if I virtualized something, I could leave it there, and it wasn't going to it didn't have to worry about the underlying hardware changes. Help us understand How does kubernetes fit into this environment? Because, as I said that people don't want to even worry about it. And the infrastructure people now need to be able to change, expand and, you know, respond to the business so much faster than we might have in times past. >>Yeah, So from an infrastructure perspective, working with VM ware based on tons of really the essence of that is to bring I t operators and developers together. The infrastructure has a common set of management that, you know, each the developer and the I t operators can work in the language there most familiar with. And, you know, the communication of the translation all happens within Tan Xue so that they're more speaking the same, um, language when it comes Thio, you know, managing the infrastructure in particular with VM ware tansy on VX rail. We are delivering kind of a range of infrastructure options because we know people are still trying to figure out you know, where they are in their kubernetes readiness. Have, um, some people have really developed mature capabilities in house for who were Netease for software defined networking. And for those customers, they still may want Thio. You know, use a reference architecture er and build on top of the ex rail for, you know, a custom cloud native specific application. What we're finding is more and more customers, though, don't have that level of kubernetes expertise, especially at scale. And so VM ware v sphere with Tan Xue on VX rail as well as via more cloud foundation on VX rail are ways Thio get a fast start on kubernetes with directly on these fair or kind of go with the full Monty of B M or Cloud Foundation on BX rail. >>Well, we're bringing up VX rail. Of course. The whole wave of h C I was How do we enable simplicity? We don't wanna have to think about these. We wanna, uh, just make it so that customers can just buy a solution. Of course. VX rail joint solution, you know, heavily partnership with VM ware. So, Shannon, there's a few options. VM has been moving very fast. Expand out that the into portfolio, uh, back at the beginning of the year when the Sphere seven came out. You needed the BMR Cloud Foundation. Which, of course, what was an option for for for the VX rail. So help us understand you laid out a little bit some of those options there. But what should I know as Adele customer, Uh, you know what my options are? How the fault hands a sweet fits into it. >>Yeah, eso we like to call it kubernetes your way with the ex rail. So we have a range of options to fit your operational or kubernetes scale requirements or your level of expertise. So the three options, our first for customers that are looking for that tested, validated multi configuration reference architectures er that will deliver platform as a service or containers is a service. We've got tons of architecture for VX rail, which is a new name for what was known as pivot already architecture er and then for customers that may have minimum scaling requirements, they may have some of that expertise in house to manage at scale. The fastest path to get started with kubernetes is the new VM ware V sphere with Changzhou on VX rail. And then last I mentioned kind of that full highly automated turnkey on promises. Cloud platform. That's the VM, or Cloud Foundation, on VX rail, which is also known as Dell Technologies Cloud Platform. And that option supports Tan Xue with software defined networking and security built in with that automated lifecycle management across the full stack. So there's really three paths to it, from a reference architecture approach to a fast path on the actual clusters all the way to the full Deltek Cloud platform. And Dell Technologies is the first and only really offering this breath of Tanya infrastructure deployment options. Eso customers can really choose the best path for them. >>Yeah, so, Shannon, if if I If I think back to what we saw in the keynote, you know, VM Ware lays out there, they're hybrid and multi cloud solution. So of course they're they're public cloud the VM ware cloud on a W s. They have that solution. They have extended extended partnerships. Now, with azure uh, the the the offering with Oracle that's coming. And I guess I could think to just think of the Delta cloud on VX rail as just one of those other clouds in that hybrid and multi cloud solutions do I have that right? Same stack. Same management. If I'm if I'm living in that VM world world. >>Yeah. So the Deltek Cloud platform is an on premises hybrid cloud. So, you know, ah, lot of customers were looking to reduce complexity really quickly especially, you know, with some of the work from home initiatives that were sprung upon us and trying to pivot to respond to that. And, um, you know the answer toe solving some of that complexity is to jump into public cloud. What we found is a lot of customers actually are driving a hybrid cloud strategy and approach. And we know many customers sort of have that executive mandate. There's value in, um, driving that, um on Prem hybrid cloud approach. And that's what Dell Technologies Cloud platform is. So you get the consistent operations in the consistent infrastructure and more of the public cloud like consumption experience while having the infrastructure on Prem for security data locality There, um, you know, cost reasons like that eso That's really where VM or Cloud Foundation on VF drill comes into play eso leveraging the VM ware technologies you have on Prem hybrid cloud. It can connect all those public cloud providers that you talked about. So you have, you know, core to cloud on day one of the new capabilities that VM or Cloud Foundation is announced support for is remote clusters. So that takes us kind of from cloud all the way toe edge because you now have the same VCF operational capabilities and operational efficiency with centralized management for remote locations. >>Wonderful. I'm glad you brought up the edge piece. Of course, you talk to the emerging space vm ware talking about ai talking about EJ. So help us understand. How much is it? The similar operational model is it even? Is that part of the VX rail family? What's the What's the state of the state in 2020 when it comes to how edge fits into that cloud core edge discussion that you just, uh, raised? >>Yeah. When you look at trends, especially for hyper converged edge and cloud native are kind of taking up a lot of the airwaves right now. Eso hyper converge is gonna play a big role in Theodore option of both cloud native Band Edge. And I think the intersection of those two comes into play with things like the remote cluster support for VM or Cloud Foundation on VX rail where you can run cloud, you know, cloud native based modern applications with thons Ooh, alongside traditional workloads at the edge, which traditionally have more stringent requirements. Less resource is maybe they need a more hardened environment, power and cooling, you know, um, constraints. So with VCF on Vieques, well, you have all the operational goodness that comes from the partnership in the levels of integration that we have with VM Ware. And customers can sort of realize that promise of full workload management mobility in a true hybrid cloud environment. >>Shannon, when I'm wondering what general feedback you're getting from your customers is as they look at a zoo, said these cloud native solutions and you know what's what's the big take away? Is this a continuation of the HD I wave that you've seen? Do they just pull this into their hybrid environments? Um, I'm wondering if you have any either any specific examples that you've been anonymized or just the general gestalt that you're getting from your customers. Is that how they're doing expanding, uh, into these, you know, new environments that kind of stretch them in different ways. >>Yeah, it's interesting because you know, there's there's customers that run the gamut when we look at those that are sort of the farther down their digital transformation journey. Those are the ones that were already planning for cloud native applications or had some in development. Uh, there's also some trends that we're seeing based on, you know, the the size of cluster deployments and the range of, you know, various configurations that are an indicator of those customers that are more modernized in terms of their approach to cloud native. And what we find from those customers, especially over the last six months, is that they're more prepared to respond to the unknown on bond. That was a big lesson for some of the other customers that you know, had new. The digital transformation was the way of the future, but hadn't yet sort of come up with a strategy on how to get there themselves were finding those customers are inhibiting their investments to areas that can help them be more ready for the unknown in the future. In Cloud Native is top of that list. >>Absolutely Shannon Day Volante shown a few times. There's the people in the office, you know, with their white board doing everything. And there's the wrecking ball of covert 19. Kind of like Well, if you weren't ready and you weren't already down this path, you better move fast. Wonderful. All right, Shannon. So we know, uh, from past years, you know, VX rail. Usually it's all over the show. So in the digital world, what do you want? He takeaways. What are some of the key? You know, hands on demos, sessions that that people should check out. >>Thank you. Yeah. So hopefully your take away is that the exhale is a great infrastructure to support modern applications. First and foremost, we have, you know, a jointly engineered system built with VM ware, four VM ware environments to enhance fam. Where, and we do that with our the extra LHC I system software, which I didn't give a shout out to yet, which extends that native capabilities and really is the secret behind how we do seamless automated operational experience with the ex rail. And that's the case, whether it's traditional or modern applications. So that's my little commercial for VX rail at the show please tune into our VM World session on this topic. We also have hands on labs. We are launching a fun augmented reality game. Eso Please check that out on. We have a new Web page as well that you get access to all the latest assets and guides that help you, you know, navigate your journey for cloud native. And that's at dell technologies dot com slash Hangzhou. >>Wonderful. Well, Shannon Champion, thanks so much. Great to see you again. And be short. Uh, we look forward to hearing more in the future. >>Thanks to >>stay with us. Lots more coverage from VM World 2020. I'm stew. Minimum is always thank you for watching the Cube.

>>LA from Las Vegas. It's the cube hovering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Good morning. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 19 from Las Vegas. Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman. Stu, this is day three of two sets of coverage for the cube and this expo hall has not gotten any less busy. Tons of people still here. >>Lisa, 65,000 I'm sure the throats are a little bit raw. The feet are tired, but there's so much good information and yeah, excited to dig in with some more of our guests. >>Yeah, so much good information that we have. Dell EMC back. Yes, we had them yesterday. There's more to talk about today. Please welcome a couple of guests. We've got Nick Brackney, senior consultant cloud at product marketing. Welcome to the queue of your first time. Happy to have you and Bob Ganley. I feel like it's been about 18 hours, maybe 20 senior consultant cloud product marketing. Welcome back. Thank you. So guys, lots of news like AWS news shot out of the cannon. One of the things though that you can't help but talk about at any event is multi-cloud organizations. The CIO is tell us on the cube all the time. We've inherited the multi-cloud. Sometimes Dave Valentic calls it a crime scene, right? For various reasons. It's not necessarily strategic, but it is becoming a reality. Talk to us about what Dell EMC is seeing. What your customer base with respect. Sorry, that's for Nick multi-cloud. Why, what are you seeing? How are you helping customers navigate it? >>Yeah, I think that, uh, there's a lot of diversity in needs for their customer base and it's really challenging for any one vendor to provide all of the solutions that they need. And so that's, that's where it's really about being able to offer them choices and giving them support to be in the right cloud for their workload. And so as we talk about this idea of cloud in the state, you said, you know, if, if they're in one or more clouds, it's really important that they have consistency across those clouds because otherwise the crime scene turns into something that's a, a management headache for everyone. >>Yeah. Nick, I wonder if we could tease that out a little bit because consistency's important. You know, when I think about, you know, multi-vendor in the data center for years, you know, VMware did a pretty good job of abstracting a certain layer. I'm a little worried that we're trying to recreate some of the silos of the past, you know, in giant cloud environment. So how do we make sure we learn from the past? And because skill sets are very different, the products underneath are very different. So while there might be certain point applications that I might need, the message here at Amazon is, you know, they've got the broadest and deepest environments they are. If you're doing multi-cloud, they're gum. Do one of them. So, you know, bring us inside your customers and how we make sure that we don't end up with that crime scene that Dave talked about and uh, all the pieces. >>I think first off, you can't look at technology in a vacuum. You really have to be thinking about people and processes. What can a business actually consume? You know, we run into a lot of talking about containers and containers is a great path forward to go cloud native. And that's really easy if you're starting from scratch. If you have a thousand apps though that currently sit in on premises, it's really challenging to make that move. And you know, which ones do I replatform, which ones do I lift and shift. And so I think that's one of the things we're doing with, you know, I work with VMR cloud foundation is we have one platform that can handle both virtualization and containers so you can have a orderly progression towards cloud native. >>What about the people part of it? I think we talked about this a little bit yesterday, Bob, and that's actually something that has come up in a lot of our conversations is it's not just about the technology for many reasons. How do you help the people? Because part of that's cultural and that's a really a challenging change to undergo. >>You know, I think you have to meet them where they are. Right? And that's, I read an article and someone said that the, uh, for, for analytics that most CEOs still are using Excel. There are all these other really advanced analytics things, but that's what they're most comfortable with. So when we look at the, the fact that all these organizations have really standardized on VMware, that's a really easy move for them to make because you can take your existing skill sets, you know, the, the investments you've made in the software defined data center and now you can extend them to the cloud and you can take the existing best practices that you have in your data center and you can move those to the cloud. So you're not surprised when you get there with all of the configurations and all the management, all the security challenges. >>And I want to add to that actually because I think one of the underlooked aspects of this whole thing is the idea that, like you said, if you have silos of operation, then you've got challenges. And so I like to say security for example, begins with who are you, what do you have access to? So if you have different ways of doing that on prem than in cloud, you're by definition at a riskier state. Same thing for compliance. Same thing for automation. If you've got multiple different tools to use, you know, it's just harder to do. So I think, you know, the consistency thing is very, very important. >>Excellent. Bob, you, you're the straight man for my next question here because, uh, if you listen to our hosts here of AWS, they don't use that multi-cloud word yet. The biggest conversation of discussion that I've had across with AWS with customers and uh, you know, with the ecosystem here has been outposts and absolutely Amazon might not even use the hybrid term, but absolutely is that extension between inconsistency between the public cloud and in my data center. So I'd like to hear, you know, Dell Dell's perspective outposts of course, hugely important. Sure. >>You know, I think it'd be really easy or almost trite to say that, Oh, you know, Amazon is justifying the fact that there's on prime infrastructure, right? I mean, Andy comes out and says 97% of it revenue still on prem. I think, you know, everybody understands that. I think it comes down to the following investment protection, trust and choice and investment protection is about organizations today have a huge investment in the way they're doing business now and clearly VM where's the lion's share of on-prem virtualization today? So it makes sense to extend that investment toward hybrid cloud and there's a very natural path to do that from the perspective of trust. When you look at on prem infrastructure, who better to work with in Dell EMC? I mean we're number one in HCI, number one in servers, number one in storage, we know how to do on prem and now with Dell technologies cloud we're extending that to a very consistent hybrid cloud model with AWS. >>Uh, and the third thing is, you know, choice, which is outposts is interesting because it's a completely managed service. Some organizations want that managed service. What we bring to the table with Dell technologies cloud is either Delta technologies, cloud platform, which is you manage it the way you normally manage it or the VMware cloud on Dell EMC, which is a completely managed service. So we have the data center as a service offering. We have the you manage it mr customer, which aligns with the way they're doing business. And I think last but not least is this whole idea of cloud economics and this concept of allowing people to pay for things by the drink, which is something that, you know, we're helping organizations do with their on premise. >>Bob actually just want to make sure I understand what you're talk about that managed service, the outpost solutions with VMware's expected in 2020. Does that then roll under the Dell technology cloud offering on E on VMware? I just want to make sure how I ended, how that is expected to. >>Yeah. So no it doesn't because that's essentially um, the Amazon hardware with the VMware stack on it on premises. And what we're offering for a data center as a service solution is a VMware cloud on Dell EMC, formerly known as project dimension, which is, you know, the trusted Dell EMC hardware with the verified VMware stack very tightly integrated. So it's cloud like operations on premise. >>Yeah. Yeah. So similar consumption models, similar design points, but different hardware stacks, >>consumption models, which is I think, yeah, I was going to say one of the other things you have to look at too when you're thinking about why now, why is this happening? And I think it's because people are starting to realize something that we've been saying for a long time, which is that cloud isn't a place, it's an operating model. And so by being able to bring that into the data center, what you're doing is you're extending it to more workloads. And I think that's great for customers. That's what they want and that's what we're trying to build ourselves. >>Bob, a question for you, some of the aligning with Stewart's question this week since the announcement of outpost, what Amazon is doing announced last year coming to fruition now, what are some of the things that you're hearing around the event from Dell EMC customers? Are they, are they understanding what that opportunity is for them? Yeah, >>we've been doing this for a while, right? So, um, VMware cloud on Dell EMC has been general availability since VM world of 2019 we announced it in 2018 we've got tons of customers that are very interested, thousands of customers running, um, within VMware cloud on AWS and now looking at this data center as a service solution, as an extension to that on prem. The thing that's cool about it is that they don't have to touch the hardware, they don't have to touch the software. It all gets managed remotely, but it's used just like on prem infrastructure. Right. So it's a great solution. >>Yup. Nica what one of the things that always gets talked about here is there's a big shift from apex to AFEX, uh, at this show. Uh, one of the things that surprises me as customers get all excited, Amazon comes out with new feature and they said, Hey, we're going to give you insight and we're going to save you 30% over what you were paying last year. Just because you probably weren't configuring it crate in your world. If you came to a customer and said, Oh, Hey, we oversold you stuff in this there, they'd probably be walking you out the door. But Dell has been doing some interesting things, going more cloud native with the economic model. Maybe speak a little bit to that. >>I have, I mean, I think it's something that's great. You know, cloud economics makes it easy to get going with a, with a small investment and scale out and, and, uh, move more quickly when be more agile. And so what we wanted to do was bring that same agility and ability to kind of innovate, uh, and, and not have the cost be a barrier by then extending that across our portfolio at Dell technologies on demand. So that's really about, you know, whether you want to do metered usage, whether you want a subscription or whether, you know, I want to, uh, you know, purchase hardware upfront, wait till I'm going to hit the switch and turn it on, and then I'll start getting built. But then I have the idea, the same thing as cloud, where it's, it's this idea of unlimited capacity at your fingertips, right? It's, it's not actually unlimited. We sometimes see that some, even some clouds run out of space, but it's, it's, you're able to move quicker. You don't have to wait those three, four, six weeks for the hardware to come in because it's already sitting there. >>Well, in legacy businesses don't have that much time because there are invariably in every industry, there is a born in the cloud company that is moving faster, has a different mindset and it's probably chomping at the bit right behind them. Take over that business. If that legacy enterprise isn't able to work fast enough. >>Absolutely. But what really makes us really interesting is that we're still offering you more choices, right? So the thing is, is there are certain workloads that break cloud economics, whether it's massive storage that, you know, I always tell people, you spin up and spin down VMs, you never delete data because that is super valuable to your business or you know, uh, we find certain workloads that are steady state, right? You know, cloud is really great when you're scaling up. Scaling down, when you're, you know, flipping off the switch of the lights. When you leave the room, if you leave it on all the time it can add up. And so it's really nice not just about bringing the cloud economics into the data center, but by bringing that consistent experience across both the data center and your cloud is now you can let the business requirements and the application requirements determine what the best place to put the workload is. Yeah. >>So, sorry. So Bob won, one of the big themes at this show is transformation. You've got it on your hat. When we talk about the cloud native space, uh, we were said there were the cloud native companies, they were born in the cloud. We said there are many companies that are becoming born again in the cloud. You know, bring us inside a little bit. What you're seeing, just the discussion point is you just can't incrementally get there. It requires, you know, executive management, uh, involvement and you know, it is a radical change in the way you build your application. And that has a ripple effect through everything that you do. >>Yeah, absolutely does. When you think about it, there is an evolution happening in application architectures and that evolution is from physical to virtual to now infrastructure is a service to add the additional efficiency and automation orchestration. Now container as a service, as we see organizations moving toward cloud native and containers to platform as a service and function as a service. And when you think about that, organizations need to bring their existing investments in virtualized applications forward as they're adding on containers as they're looking at this next generation cloud native. So we believe the right solution is to preserve that investment and bring that forward. So we've been adding cloud native, um, you know, standard upstream Kubernetes distribution to, uh, our Dell technologies cloud platform and that allows organizations to extend our investments. So that's one thing is that architectural evolution. The second thing is what I call the operational evolution that's happening as well. And the operational evolution is, you know, cloud has revolutionized the way people look at it because it's so easy to use. So what we're doing is bringing that operational evolution to the data center as well, where we're completely integrating the on prem infrastructure so that you can life cycle management in an automated fashion. And we're doing that both for infrastructure as a service and now for container as a service for Cooper daddy's. So we're excited about both the architectural and operational evolution. >>Well, and Nick, I'd be curious your viewpoint of this show, it's really a interesting mix of you've got enterprise, you've got developers, you've got everything in between and personas. So brick is inside something for the conversations you're having, how you worked with some of those different personas. >>I think it's really interesting because the shift towards containers means a shift dev ops. And when you're looking at that, uh, I think what's lost in the way is when I went and talked to my friends who spent a lot of time as it ops folks, they think very differently than developers. When something goes wrong, their immediate reaction is, please roll it back. Whereas a developer, thanks, hold on, let me add some more code to this and we'll fix it that way. And so I think the challenge right now is, is the burden is shifting and it's shifting towards developers. And one of the things I think with our solution and you know, hopefully, you know, project Pacific with VMware, what's coming down the path where they're, they're injecting, you know, containers into vSphere, all of that. Hopefully what's going to come out of that is, is you're going to make the job a little bit easier for developers because when you start doing dev ops or God forbid dev sec ops, and you're burdening these people with all these responsibilities, how are they still gonna innovate? That's really a big challenge. And I think when I'm at a show like this, I hear it from both sides. So it's really fascinating to hear the different perspectives and they're not necessarily aligned. >>Yeah, it's just that the, the quick note on that, in order's keynote, he puts out the giant thing on the board. You know, everything fails all the time. That's not what the enterprise was used to in the old world. And that's what that transformation is a little bit uncomfortable for many of them. >>And speaking of being uncomfortable, you know, Bobby talked about cloud, especially next gen cloud brings up opportunities, a lot of opportunity, but with it comes architectural change as you mentioned, uh, operational change but cultural change. Final questions and thoughts, Nick, from you, what are in the respect of the opportunity, but those changes, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you're seeing enterprises make and how can they avoid those? >>Yeah, so I mean, the first thing is I think that people have been sweeping mandates. When people say cloud first as a mandate, I think what they're, what they're missing in that is there's so much exuberance. They're not thinking through what is the workload need, what does the business need? And cloud should absolutely be a big part of anyone's strategy moving forward. But you need to be thoughtful about what you do. And, and uh, Pat Pat Gelsinger talks about there's three laws, the laws of physics, the laws of economics and then the laws of the land. You know, I always joke around, we still haven't managed to find a way to travel faster than the speed of light. So latency is always an issue. And then the second thing is, uh, around the shared responsibility model. You know, when you move to infrastructure as a service, people think, wow, I, I, they're taking care of everything. This is super easy. And what they haven't always figured out is that they're still on the hook for a lot of things from a security perspective, from a manageability perspective, from a data protection perspective. And if you fail to actually address those, then you might run into some problems down the line. >>Guys, good stuff. Always so much to talk about. Thank you both for joining Stu and me on the program today. Bob, I probably see again at the airport tonight. We appreciate you joining soon and stick around on the QTC is later today. Andy Jassy AWS CEO is going to be on, but for now, I'm Lisa Martin for. Thanks for watching the cube.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with John Furrier coming to you live from Dell Technologies World 2019. This is our third day of coverage from two CUBE sets. What do you call that John? >> CUBE Cannon. >> CUBE Cannon of content. And guess who's back? One of our alumni Shannon Champion. >> Hello. >> Director of Product Marketing Dell EMC, Shannon thank you so much for joining us. >> A pleasure as always. >> Day three you still have a big smile on your face. >> I do do, it has been exhilarating, I'm completely exhausted but I'm thrilled to be here talking with you. >> You don't look exhausted but we're thrilled to have you. >> Thank you. >> So everything started, talking about cannons, Michael came out on Monday morning with all the gang, lots of news, lots of information that we've heard throughout the last three days, people are very excited about this. Excited about the deeper collaboration within the Dell Technologies companies. But something that you guys announced that we want to kind of really break through is Dell Technologies Cloud, VMware Cloud on Dell EMC, can you help me as a non-technologist understand those two differences, consumption model. >> Absolutely yeah, so it's all in a name really, Dell Technologies Cloud is the unification of the strategies between Dell EMC Cloud and VMware Cloud, one unified cloud strategy called Dell Technologies Cloud. Under that there are offers. So there's two categories of offers, one is the Data Center-as-a-Service, the fully managed, on-prem infrastructure where VxRail is the foundation. People know this as Project Dimension announced last year, it now has a formal, VMware Cloud on Dell EMC. So it's an offer underneath the category of Dell Technologies Cloud. >> And the VxRail components, explain VxRail for a minute, I think that's super important, it seems to be everywhere a key part of the architecture. >> It is yeah, so if you are here at the show, you've seen that VxRail is everywhere, it's on stage in lots of demos and it is the core foundation of our Dell Technologies Cloud offers. The collaboration between Dell EMC and VMware to bring VxRail to market kind of showcases the power of what this partnership can do. So it makes sense that this tightly integrated enterprise grade hyper-converged platform is the foundation of these Dell Tech Cloud offers. >> What's some of the use cases that was really driving the project, obviously multiple clouds was a key message here, but what was some of specific use cases you guys were really attacking? >> Sure, so when you look at the Data Center-as-a-Service offer, it's the fully managed capabilities. So customers are going to public cloud for the simplicity, agility, that cloud-like operations. But we started to see customers slowing down the adoption of that to some extent because they needed the security and the control of having infrastructure on premises and that's what we do with Data Center-as-a-Service, basically deliver the benefits of both, in a monthly subscription type model where they have all the infrastructure on premise but they get the benefit of a public cloud-like experience. >> And that's in beta, the announcement in the news was that Project Dimension, now Data Center-as-a-Service, which I love that name by the way, I think it's going to be great. But it's in beta, what does that mean beta? Select customers, preview, what's specific? >> Yeah, it's in beta phase, we have a couple customers that are running it today, so we're looking for customers to help shape the future, help us prioritize, you know, what are the key use cases that they're seeing a need for this technology. So we're looking for a few good companies still, so if anyone's out there interested, hit up our reps. Yeah, it'll be available in the market in the second half of this year, but currently in beta. >> It seems to be great for the edge, shipping a data center is almost like, okay with all this new technology, the bundling's literally nice, you guys did a good job on that. Shipping a data center, it almost was a dream years ago, We'll just ship a data center to the edge. That seems to be the the big use case that people are talking about, the edge of the network's going to have more capabilities, moving data around is not the answer, 'cause of latencies and as Pat Gelsinger would say laws of physics. This is identified as a big sweet spot. Michael Dell commented the edge in the next 10 years is going to be explosive, is that pretty much the core kind of direction? >> Yeah, it's interesting, you know it's called Data Center-as-a-Service and edge is a key use case for Data Center-as-a-Service, but also the core data centers when we are polling our customers they're actually telling us, they have a need for this in both locations, so both are key use cases, the edge obviously for the reasons you pointed out too. >> So talk to us about the customers involvement in the manifestation of Project Dimension. We've been hearing a lot the last three days, you really even felt it on stage from day one. Collaboration, not just within the Dell Technologies companies, we saw Microsoft. But where are the customers in terms of influencing Project Dimension now becoming a reality? >> Sure yeah, I mean this has been a collaboration with customers, but also between Dell EMC and VMware jointly with our joint customers going out to talk to them about the possibility and the promise and the capabilities that are being delivered. So certainly a joint effort from both companies along with our customers to give us feedback in terms of you know, where they see this as a key use case for them. >> Customers just looking for tighter integration, tighter collaboration, what are some of the business imperatives, where your customers are saying, hey guys, this is really the way to go here and here's why. >> Yeah I mean I touched on it a little bit in terms of like, the transparency, the security, the control, the data latency, improvements of having infrastructure on premises whilst still wanting sort of that agility and simplicity of a public cloud-like operating model, and that's essentially what's driving this new category of infrastructure consumption, Data Center-as-a-Service. And we have a whole nother side of Dell Tech Cloud, which is the Dell Technologies Cloud platform and we deliver that through VMware Cloud Foundation on VxRail, so I mentioned VxRail's kind of everywhere, that offer is available today for customers on premises. And with VxRail it's really the only VMware Cloud Foundation infrastructure offering that has full stack integration, we're calling it full stack integration because there is a set of software capabilities for VxRail that tie together what VMware does with the SDDC Manager automation together with the infrastructure management VxRail through RESTful APIs, through software that integrates the two. So for customers, they have a complete seamless all in one management experience with cloud foundation on VxRail. So, we're really excited about that and it's only been shipping for two weeks and already customers are willing to be reference customers for us, talking about the potential, the promise, wanting to work with us on what this could mean for their organizations. >> Was going to ask you about their reactions. >> Give us some feedback on the customer, I'd love to hear what they're saying, obviously demand, what's the main euphoria around it? >> Yeah so, hybrid cloud is part of every customer's strategy and really understanding how they can best get there, what's the simplest and the fastest way for them, has been what they're considering. And if you look at what we're doing with VMware Cloud Foundation on VxRail, we have a fast and simple way and they back by the promise of both Dell EMC and VMware working together to bring these two technologies in a unified way that's a seamless experience. So, you know the power of hyper-converged is to let businesses get out of the, maintaining the infrastructure so they can focus on business outcomes. The same is true for other use cases like hybrid cloud. So that's what customers are excited about there. >> Yeah Pat Gelsinger says "don't look down, look up." Meaning if you can take advantage of the modernizations of hyper-converged which you guys have been doing for a while, the packaging's more consumable and you bolt on the VMware piece. So then you got consistent cloud operations, but then can focus in on the software. This is the dream of software defined data center, this is what people had hoped for, I think two years ago, but it's kind of, come in now this is reality. >> This is reality, for sure. >> So it sounds like, you've got nearly what 5,000 VxRail customers, it's over a billion dollar run rate, are customers looking at VxRail as a foundational component of really accelerating their modernization of their IT and their data center. >> Yeah, that's been the core of what VxRail's delivered since the start, so it's three years old, as you mentioned nearly 5,000 customers to date. It's the fastest growing HCI system, thanks to that strong customer adoption. But really it's been a catalyst for data center modernization to date. And what we're talking about this week is how it's really going beyond an HCI appliance. So it's the foundation for hybrid cloud for the Dell Tech Cloud offers. And we're also offering up additional deployment options, so people think of VxRail as an appliance, but now they can get it as fully integrated rack with or without networking and if they choose Dell EMC Networking, they get the power of SmartFabric Services integration, for hyper-converged networking can be a pain point now it's fully automated, deployment, life cycle management as part of the full stack, so lots of options. >> Talk about the software innovation, 'cause we've been hearing and this has been happening, they've done a software transition, there's more software engineers than hardware engineers these days, you guys have the system software and some analytical software, how does that play in on the HCI side and where's that sit on the VxRail side, is it on the stacks, so where is your software piece? >> Yeah, thanks so there's really great software innovation from the PowerEdge side from the VMWare vSAN side, but we also have additional software innovation, specifically for VxRail that kind of ties those things together and that now includes VMware Cloud Foundations. So there's things like the RESTful APIs that I talked about that enable VMware Cloud Foundation full stack integration, that also have downstream connectors that allow networking automation. But now we're introducing another piece of software innovation that we're calling VxRail ACE. Analytical Consulting Engine, so you know, it's a marketing term, but what does this do, it's intelligent analytics to further simplify operations. We like to call it infrastructure machine learning for VxRail. So we're excited, we have a data lake, it has an analytics engine and historical data of how customers have been using VxRail to date. Now we're able to have enough data to apply machine learning to that and offer up customers insights into how to best optimize their configurations, forecast consumptions, I was just talking with some customers in a session before about how a few years back they would try and project their resource consumption over a five year period and now they can't even look six months ahead. So a tool like this can help them forecast it. At what point in time am I going to need to add more drives or add more nodes based on my current usage rates and that's pretty powerful technology. >> And with the consumption model changing too to the subscription, this gives them more agility on both sides, proactive planning and also understanding kind of what's going on. Not look back six months to a year like, well we should have bought or over-provisioning, the old days right? >> Yeah exactly yeah, that's good a point. >> So what's the future hold, tell us about where this is going to go next. Obviously selling like hot cakes, congratulations. >> Thanks. >> What's next, where's the next innovation coming, what's going on? >> Yeah I mean, like I said, we're seeing VxRail as more than just a catalyst for data center modernization, a lot of customers are going to keep choosing it for that turnkey simplicity. But we're now enabling fast and simple hybrid cloud and as edge use cases start to emerge, VxRail as a hyper-converged infrastructure has a lot of promise there too, so we really see it as a opportunity and a foundation for a wide range of use cases with our customers. >> So a lot of customers as we mentioned. Any favorite stories that really showcase how VxRail as a foundation for hybrid cloud, customer's cloud strategies, how it's really enabling them to unlock the data capital as it's been talking about here as obviously data has so much potential, but if you can't find it and you can't harness the insights. Any customer stories that really in your opinion speak to, this is really unlocking customer's data so that they can make better decisions, identify new revenue streams and ultimately deliver an awesome customer experience. >> Yeah definitely, I mean we have over 25 VxRail customers here at the show telling their stories throughout. It's hard for me to pick a single one. You know what's interesting is when we just had a session, we had two customers there and we asked them what are the business drivers that VxRail is enabling for you? They both, completely different industries, one is an insurance industry and one was a financial services industry, and they both came back to the same premise of I need to deliver IT services faster to my customer base and I can't spend time being in the business of maintaining the infrastructure, I just need automation that enables me to let my teams accelerate the pace of innovation and stay competitive. So, that's the role that it's playing. >> And in any industry, because as we know, every company these days, if they're not technology companies already, they need to be. >> Yeah that's true, yeah we were just talking about IT as a business, how IT leaders really need to work hand in hand with the CEOs, understand the business strategy and then create their own IT strategy. And really drive a culture around a business plan specifically for IT and technology. Which is a really interesting way to think about it. >> I was going to ask you about cultural change, as we all know that's very challenging to do. These two customers that you mentioned did they talk about that at all, like how it's actually enabling cultural change that drives the business forward. >> Yeah they did actually and you know, the core there is that people is harder to change than technology and tools and processes. Some of the tips that they had were really insightful, one of which is, a lot of people fear change. But if you can inspire them to fear obsolescence more than fearing change, then you can motivate them around that, but also creating a vision for them around what their role will be when they're not maintaining infrastructure will also help kind of inspire them to do things differently. So that was pretty cool to hear directly from customers around how their innovating, inspiring their people. >> Competition real quick, obviously HCI's been very competitive, new other vendors are out there, we know who they are, how do you guys fit in versus the competition, obviously the differentiators, the multiple piece parts of Dell Technologies. But where's the real innovation and competitive advantage that you guys are putting out there? >> Yeah, from a VxRail perspective it's easy. There's no deeper integration with VMware. All customers pretty much are VMware customers, a majority of them right? And being jointly engineered with VMware gives us inherent advantages and an experience that customers come to us and tell us, is superior to others that they're able to find, so we always go back to that and we get validation from our customers on that too. >> Okay Shannon as we wrap up here in the last few seconds. What are some the things you're personally going to be taking away as you hop on that red-eye tonight? >> Personally, I think Dell Technologies World is like the culmination of so much hard work of a ton of people, so I'm going to send a ton of thank you notes to all the people that made this happen, but really reflect on how exciting a time it is in technology, in what we're doing in hyper-converged that plays a role in everything that we've heard this week. And just be proud of what we're doing. >> Awesome, you should be proud, well Shannon thank you for joining John and me on theCUBE again this afternoon we appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Go get some rest. >> I will. (laughs) >> For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin you're watching theCUBE live from Dell Technologies World 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome to theCUBE's live coverage here in Las Vegas for Dell Technologies World 2019. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, Dave Vellante. Day two of three days of wall-to-wall coverage. We got two sets called theCube Cannon. We've got the Cannon of Content, interviews all day long, out at night at the analyst briefings, meet-ups, receptions, talking to all the executives at Dell Technologies VMware and across the industry. Stu, Dave, today is product announcements on the keynotes. Yesterday was the grand vision with Michael Dell and the big reveal on the Microsoft partnership with Satya Nadella's surprise visit onstage, unveiling new Azure-VMware integrations with Dell Technologies. Dell announced the Dell Cloud, which is a little bit of Virtustream, but they're trying to position this cloud, I guess it's a cloud if you want to call it a single cloud of glass. Dave, single pane in the glass with a variety of other things, unified workspace and some other things. This is Dell trying to be a supplier end-to-end. This is the pitch from Dell Technologies. We'll be talking to Michael Dell, also Pat Gelsinger, the CO of VMware. Dave, were you impressed, were you shocked, were you surprised with yesterday's big news and as the products start coming online here, what's your analysis? >> Well yesterday, John, was all about the big strategic vision, Michael Dell laying out check for good and then the linchpin of Dell strategy which of course is VMware for cloud, multicloud, hybrid cloud, kind of VMware everywhere. I was surprised that Satya Nadella flew down from Seattle and was here on stage in person. Didn't come in from the big screen. So I thought that was pretty impressive. You had the three power players up on stage. Today of course was all about the products. Both Dell and EMC have always been very practical in terms of their engineering. Stu, you used to work there. Their R&D is a lot of D. It's sort of incremental product improvements to keep the customers happy, to keep ahead of the competition, to keep the lifecycle going. They had like 10 announcements today. I can go through 'em real quick if you want, but they range from new laptops to talking about new branding on servers, new storage devices. You had PowerProtect which is their new rebranded backup and data protection and data manage portfolio, an area where Dell EMC has been behind. So lots of announcements. Another kind of mega launch tradition and again, a lot of incremental but important tactical improvements to the product line. >> Last year, what we heard from Jeff Clarke is they're looking to simplify that portfolio. Back in the EMC days, it was oh my gosh, look at the breadth of this. Every category, they had two or three offerings and you know, the stated goal is to simplify that and that means most categories are going to get one product. It's interesting. You talk about networking just got rebranded with that Power branding. I kind of said there there's marketing behind it. If you know what that product is because it's the Power brand and they put it out there. So you know, PowerMax, has been their tiered storage. They had a good update for Unity. It's Unity XT. Doesn't have a power name yet so maybe there's still some dry powder left in the product portfolio there, but they're making progress going through this 'cause these things don't happen overnight. It's great to spin up the clouds, but in the storage world, customers, they trust, they have the code, they test it out. So going to new generations, making that change, does take time but you've seen that progress. The tail end of that integration between Dell and EMC on the product side. >> Stu, what's your analysis of the products so far 'cause again like Dave said, it's a slew of announcements. What's resonating, what's popping out, what's boiling up to the surface? >> Yeah so look, the area that I spent so much time on, John, that hyper-converged infrastructure. If you look at a lot of the pieces underneath it all, it's VxRail. One of the things we've had a little bit of a challenge squinting through is oh wait, there's this managed service stack, it's VxRail underneath. Oh wait I've taken the appliance and I put VCF. Oh that's VxRail and then I've got this other, it's like I see three or four solutions and I'm like is it all just VxRail with like a VMware stack on top of it? But it's how do I package it, what applications live on it, how is it consumed, manage service, op ex, cap ex. So they've got that a little bit of complexity when VxRail itself is you know, dirt simple and really there so they're making progress on the cloud piece. Dell is the leader in hyper-converged. I'll point out, you don't hear anybody talking about Nutanix here, but Dell still has a partnership on the XC Core. They're going to sell a lot of Dell servers into Nutanix environment so I expect you'll still have the Nutanix show. John you're going to be at that next week. They're still going to talk about Dell. I'm sure you'll talk to Dheeraj. Yes they made a partnership with HP, but that does not kill the relationship with Nutanix just like Microsoft, heck. I'm going to see Satya Nadella on stage at Red Hat Summit next week and you're like oh well VMware and Red Hat. Red Hat's here. Red Hat's a Dell-ready partner. If you want to put open shift on top of their stack, they can do that so hardware and software, everybody's got their pieces, everybody's got their pieces, everybody competes a lot, but they partner across the board. IBM Global Services is here. There's so many companies here. Dell's a broad company, deep partnerships. The question I have is Pat Gelsinger was just on stage saying that this SDDC will be the building block for the future. I said kudos to them. They've got it on AWS, they've got it announced with Azure, we announced it with Google, but that is not necessarily the end state. VMware is a piece of the puzzle. I don't know if VMware will be the leader in multicloud management. vCenter was the leader in virtualization management so how much of that will there or do I get an Amazon and then start moving some stuff over? Do I get to Azure and start modernizing my environment so that I don't need to pay VMware and I don't need virtualization. VMware and Dell are going to containerize everything so in the future, are they containerware, you know? That's the competition kind of post-it note. They are VMware at their core. VMware is centra of the strategy and there's still some work to go, but they're making some good progress. >> I want to get your thoughts, guys, on the role VMware is playing here at the show. Normally they're here, usually they're here, but this year it seems to be much more smoother integration of talking points, messaging, product integrations. The show's got a good beat to it. Pretty packed, but the role of VMware, Dave, Stu, what's your reaction and thoughts? We've seen them dance all the time. Obviously VMware, Dave as you pointed out yesterday, a big part of the valuation of Dell Technologies, but what's your observation on the presence of VMware here at Dell Technologies World? >> I mean I've said many times that this company and I said this about EMC, it's kind of a boring company without VMware. You put VMware in the mix and all of a sudden, it becomes very strategic and very interesting from a lot of standpoints. Certainly from a financial standpoint. Remember, the Class V transaction that took Dell public was the result of an $11 billion dividend because of VMware. They took VMware's cash and they said okay, we're going to give nine billion to the shareholders. Without VMware, that wouldn't have happened. As well, the multicloud strategy, the underpinning of that multicloud strategy is VMWare. What strikes me, John and Stu, is that the cultural change. You had Dell, you had EMC. They said ah yeah the companies are compatible, but they're different companies. They maybe had shared kind of goals and values, but they had different cultures and really in a short timeframe, Michael Dell and his team have put these two companies together and they have aligned in a big way. I mean they are basically saying VMware and Dell, boom. That's how we're going to market and you know, Pat's coming on later today and I'm sure he'll say hey we love NetApp, we love HBE, we love IBM, but it's clear what the preferred partnership is. >> Dave, when the acquisition happened, there was talks of synergies and we were like oh where are they going to cut everything? If I look around here, they've got the seven logos of the primary companies. It's Dell, Dell EMC, Pivotal, RSA, Secureworks, Virtustream and VMware. They're one company. Michael Dell will go on calls for any of them. Friends of mine at Pivotal says you talk to Michael quite a bit. You know, he's out there. We talked about it yesterday. Dell and VMware are closer and tighter aligned than EMC and VMware ever were. Now on the one hand, EMC kept them separate because the growth of virtualization required that. Today in this cloud environment, it's a different world and it's matured so VMware, sure, there's still work on HP and IBM and all this other stuff, but Dell leads that move as you said, Dave. >> John, you're big on culture. This is a founder culture. What's your take on what Michael Dell has accomplished and how does it stand to compare with sort of other great cultural transformations that you've seen? >> Well I think HBE is a great example of a culture that split, was uncharged there. We know what happened there and I think they're hurting, they're losing talent and they're not winning in categories across the board like Dell is. I think Michael Dell, the founder-led approach that he's having 'cause he told us years ago, if you guys remember, here on the record, also privately that I'm going to take this off the table with EMC and I'm going to do all these things. We're going to execute. So he brought his execution mojo and ecos of Dell and become Dell Technologies, as Stu pointed out, a portfolio of multiple companies under one umbrella and he brought the execution discipline and this is a theme, Dave. Last night at the analysts reception, as I was talking to other analysts and talking to some of the execs, both from VMware and Dell Technologies, that the execution performance across the board both on product integration, which was a weak spot as you know, is getting better, the business performance discipline. We're going to have the CFO on here to talk more about it, they're executing. Howard Elias is going to be on this afternoon. He called this three years ago when he was talking about the integration that they saw synergies, they saw opportunities and they were going to unpack those. They stayed relentless on that. So I think this is a great example of keeping the founders around for all the VC-backed companies. You're thinking about getting rid of founders. Never let a founder leave a company. They bring the vision, they bring also some guts and grit and they bring a perspective and you can put great talent and team around that, that attract and retain great executives like Michael's done and he's poaching HPE, other companies and pulling talent in 'cause they're executing. They pay well, it's a great place to work according to the statistics. So again, this is all because of the founder and if the founder's not around, you have all the fiefdoms and the policists who kick in and then it becomes kind of sideways. So that's kind of what I see other companies that don't have founders around and HP lost their founders obviously and then the culture kind of went a little bit sideways. So they're trying to get back in the game, seeing them go back to their roots. We'll see how they do. We don't do that show anymore and again we don't have a lot of visibility into what HP's doing but we do know, Dave, that they do not have a lot of the pieces on the board that Dell does. So if you want to have an end-to-end operating model, and you're missing key value activities of an end-to-end value chain, that's going to be hard to automate, it's hard to be a performant, it's going to be hard to be successful. So I think Dell is showing the playbook of how to be horizontally scalable operationally and offer perspectives and data-driven specialism in any industry in any vertical. >> Yeah Dave, if I can just on the cultural piece 'cause it's really interesting. You talked about EMC, East Coast hard driving versus VMware, software, Silicon Valley company. While they're working together, a lot of it, you know, I talk to VMware people and they're like well it's great the Dell force is just selling our stuff. It's not like I'm having storage shoved down my throat or we have to have our arms twisted. It's the product portfolio that they're selling, the vSAN, NSX, the management software suite and those pieces, things like SD-WAN, there's some good synergies there. So the product portfolio is a nice fit that just jointly go out to market that they just really line up well together and Dell's a very different cultural beast than EMC was. >> Well again, staying on culture for a moment, when I discussed with some of the folks that I know out of Hopkinton the narrative early on was oh Dell's ruining EMC, tearing it apart and so forth. When you talk to people today, they say, you know what, it was painful. Dell came in and said okay, you're going to be accountable, really had an accountability culture, but now they've come out the other side, the narrative is it was the right thing to do. Jeff Clarke came in and sort of forced this alignment. There's like no question about it. People, this is a guy who you know, his calendar's set for the year. People know where he's going to be, what meeting he's going to have, what's expected and they're prepared and it seems to be taking hold. I mean if a $90 billion company that's growing at 14% in revenues, in profitable revenues, that's quite astounding when you think about it and I think it's a big result of the speed at which Dell has brought in its operating model to the broader EMC and transformed itself. It's quite amazing. >> Awesome show, guys. We've got clips out there on the #DellTechWorld on Twitter. We've got a lot of videos. We've got two sets here, three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Final word on this intro for day two, guys. Thoughts on the show? It's not a boring show. It's a lot of activities, a lot of things. They've got an Alienware eSports gaming studio which I think is totally badass. A lot of kind of cool things here. It's not the glitz and glam that we've seen in other EMC Worlds before or Dell Worlds, but it's meat and potatoes and it's got a spring to its step here. I feel it's not, it feels good. That's my takeaway. >> Well the big theme is hybrid cloud and multicloud. Jon Rowe as we were leaving the room today that we were early with that multicloud. Thanks for everybody else in the industry for hopping on board. The reality is the first time I heard the sort of hybrid cloud was called private cloud. Chuck Hollis wrote a blog back in the mid to late 2000s. Now I will make an observation in the customers that I talk to. Multicloud is not thus far, has not thus far has been a deliberate strategy. In my opinion, it's been the outcropping of multivendor, shadow IT, lines of business and I think the corner office is saying hold on, we need to reign this in, we need to have a better understanding of what our cloud strategy is, build a platform that is hybrid and sure, multicloud, to build our digital transformation. We need IT to basically help us build this out to make sure we comply with the corporate edicts and that's what's happening. It is early days. There's a long way to go. >> Yeah, as Dave, as you know, I sat right down the hallway from Chuck Hollis when he wrote that piece and I went and I called up Chuck and I was like hey Chuck, this sure sounds like my next generation virtual data center stuff that I joined the CTO office to work on and he's like yeah, yeah, new marketing branding and I wrote a piece, exactly what you said, Dave, on Wikibon.com, hybrid and multicloud were a bunch of pieces, you know. It's not a cohesive strategy. The management's not there. We're starting to see maturation. Some of the point products, you know, developed really fast. When we talk about VMware on AWS, that happened really fast. I heard if you stop by the VMware booth here at the show, they're showing outposts and I said is a diagram? No, no, I've got customers in production running this. I'm like hold on, I need to hear about this. Outpost in production? But that strategy as you said, hybrid and multicloud, we're starting to get there, starting to pull it together. David Foyer wrote a phenomenal piece about hybridcloud taxonomy. We've spent a lot of time on the research side. Really what does the industry need to do, how should customers think about all of the layers? You know, data and networking and all of these components to help make not just a bunch of pieces but actually drive innovation and help be better than the sum of its parts. >> Well ironic followup on that post, the Chuck Hollis post was around they called it the private cloud and it was all about homogeneity and now multicloud is everything but homogeneous. Outpost, however, is. Same hardware, same software, same control plane, same data plane so interesting juxtaposition. >> We'll see Amazon Outpost. Guys, go to SiliconAngle.com, Wikibon.com. Great hybridcloud, multicloud analysis coverage and news. And some of the headlines hitting the net here. Dell Technologies makes VMware linchpin of hybrid cloud, data center as a service, end user strategies from Zdnet. eWEEK, Dell makes major hybrid cloud push. Obviously great analysis, guys, right on the number. Day two, CUBE coverage here in Las Vegas. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman. We've got two sets. Rebecca Knight, Lisa Martin and more. Stay tuned for more coverage of day two after the short break. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE, covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with John Furrier covering Dell Technologies World 2019. This is our first day of coverage, two sides or, as John likes to say, it's theCUBE cannon, a cannon of CUBE content. We're very pleased to welcome back one of our alumni, Joyce Mullen, the President, Global Channel, OEM and IoT from Dell Technologies. Joyce, welcome to theCUBE cannon. >> Thank you so much. Happy to be in the cannon, it's a great place to be! >> The cannon is off the a great start! So, before we get started into all of the nitty gritty, I just want to acknowledge, you are one of CRN's Women of the Channel on Power 100 last year. Congratulations on that. >> Thank you. Thank you, thank you. >> It's always great to have strong females on theCUBE. >> Thank you, thank you. >> Talk to us a little bit about the Global Channel. There's about 4,000 partners here? >> 5,000 actually, over 5,000. >> 5,000? You've got a channel of over 150,000. Global Partner Summit kicking off today, what are some of the exciting things, news? >> Well, I'm sure you've talked about the news from this morning. I mean that obviously was dominating a lot of the discussions in terms of the solutions that we're offering and things like that. Really exciting stuff and very cool to see the collaboration between VMware and Microsoft and Dell, I mean, that's pretty powerful stuff. But also, our partners are really excited because they've been asking us for more and more highly integrated solutions. We heard about two new ones today that really span the Dell Technologies family of brands and they... You know, we have a bunch of things that we've talked about with the partners today. But we set it up last year with three strategic imperatives, and one of them is about making it easier to do more business with us. That's really, operationally, how do we improve the partner experience? The second one is around helping them enable and transform customer's environments across Dell Technologies families of brands and that one, you know, is tough to do. And so, we made some progress on that this morning, which was really exciting to hear about and then we also announced a change in our branding to our program. So we were the Dell EMC Partner Program, now we're the Dell Technologies Partner Program, which obviously carries broader significance. And then the third imperative is all around helping our partners embrace and monetize these new, emerging technologies, like IoT and AI. You heard a lot about that from Michael today, too. So we are working very hard to figure out how to help our partners do just that. >> Talk about the economics on the channel, because the channel's great leverage sales, indirect, great business models, proven over the years to be great. As new technology comes in, if it's complicated, it's hard to sell. If it's complicated, you need training. And if it doesn't throw off more profit for the partner, it tends to not work out well. You guys have really been working on this. Talk about the partner reaction to their opportunity to serve their customers, who are your customers. You're essentially going to be doing that. This has been an opportunity, because we're seeing that, with some of the services teams out there, there's more technology required in their... Skills gaps to architects. That's an opportunity for the channel partners to actually add value. >> Absolutely. >> Talk about that value piece that the partners now can add on top of it, because if it's an easy, consistent end-to-end environment that's turn-key from Dell, the partners take that and they can wrap value around that. >> Absolutely. >> Talk about that dynamic specifically. >> Well, so, when we think about these new technologies, and we think about the environments our customers are facing, or if you think about IoT, which is generally quite vertically specific, it requires new sets of skills, no doubt about it. But this complexity that we're basically facing right now in IT around more servers, more processors, more accelerators. I mean, we've gotten pretty used to a world where x86 is kind of king. But five years from now, it's going to be much different. Artificial intelligence will drive a whole bunch of specialized servers, for example. Anyway, that's an illustration of the complexity that our customers are facing, which is great news for our partners, to your point, John. So, when we spend time with our partners, we're talking about the importance of, of course you need to know the technology. Of course you need to know what AI means. You need to understand augmented reality. You need to understand IoT. But probably even more importantly, you got to get a deeper understanding of the businesses that your customer's in. The verticals, the industries. Because it's not a uniform, horizontal environment that we're deploying this stuff into now. It's a much, much more highly varied, highly complex environment, which is great news because customers need our help. That does mean that the partners have to have the certifications. We're trying to make that easier so that if they have gotten certified with VMware on VCF, they can apply that to Dell Technologies. Vice versa. >> Joyce, that's a great point. That kind of connects what Michael Dell said on stage, because the vertical specialism is where the data adds value. So where you actually bring data into the equation, which is the lifeblood of, or the heartbeat of digital transformation, to quote Michael Dell on that one. That's where the specialism is important. In the verticals. >> Yes. >> So knowing how to make data work is a partner opportunity. >> Absolutely. And that means you got to understand the business, the outcomes that your customers are looking for, and what that data looks like in those environments. So it's way different if you're in a plant or a hospital. I mean, those are pretty different environments. You got to know what you're talking about. I think it's a great opportunity for partners, but it does mean, maybe a reorientation, or a consideration of vertical expertise. >> I want to get your thoughts on IoT. So two verticals that are smoking hot right now are health care and manufacturing, machine, you know... >> Industrial Automation. >> Industrial Automation, yeah, thank you. I know RPA is high. I see people using RPA, it's really hot. In those areas, okay, OT, operational technologies, and IT have been kind of at war. Not at war, but they're different cultures. IT is about connecting internet protocol devices that have data to it. OT's, some cases, HVAC system or something else. All are getting computers on them now. So for say, for security... So the realization that it's an IT mindset, coming together with operational technology folks, are two culturally different markets but the products are blending, it's kind of becoming blurred. What is your view on this? How do you guys see that? How do you posture to that marketplace? What's the value proposition? >> Yeah, so I think it's fascinating, because we've been in cases where we're talking to customers on the operating technology side, and on the IT side, of course, given our heritage. But through our OEM group, we have a lot of experience with industrial automation, for example. And we've actually introduced people at the same company to each other. On the OT side and the IT side. >> Wow. >> Because they just you're... I don't know if I would say that they were at war, John, but they were definitely... It was parallel play going on. You know what I mean? They were not necessarily helping one another. And I would say, still, when we are in these environments, I would say roughly a third of the time, the operating technology guys say, I got this. I don't need the IT guys to tell me what to do. I'm running my plant. They do not understand. I am all about throughput, I'm all about yields, I'm all about output, I'm all about safety, I'm all about quality, whatever. The IT guy is saying, Um, well, yeah but you got to be all about security. If you're going to put this stuff on my network it's got to meet these criteria, right? So the Operating Technology guys a third of the time will say, Don't talk to the IT guys, I got this. On the IT side, a third of the time they'll say, Those OT guys really don't understand what I'm up against here. I've got to make sure this is a completely secure environment and I've got to think about all sorts of terrible data issues and things like that, privacy, all that sorts of stuff. Let me... I got this. And then, about a third of the time, we have a very productive relationship where they're working together. I expect that those... That third will become half, will become 75 percent, because it has to. >> Which half becomes 75 percent? >> I think we're going to >> The collaboration. >> see a collaboration and we will not have people taking sides because you just can't. You can't afford it. You can't afford these parallel universes. From a security point of view, or an economic point of view. >> You can't be warring, that's what you're saying. >> Yeah, exactly. >> You've got to come together and get a solution. >> Exactly, exactly. >> How can you facilitate your partners becoming that enabler of that collaboration? In terms of educating them on, a third does this, a third does that, this is my sandbox, that's yours, and then there's the third that's like, Oh, we kind of get it. How do you see yourselves as enabling your channel to be that mediator, that facilitator? >> So there's a couple of different ways. One is through Competency Development, and we have things like an IoT Competency. We have a Dell Technology Cloud Competency, as of this morning. And we will see more and more solutions-based competencies, versus product-based competencies. So, clearly, that's a trend. And that means we're helping our partners develop a level of expertise around deployment of those solutions. So that's step one. The other thing is, we're trying to figure out how to facilitate that with product offerings. So Integrated Product Offerings. You heard a couple of those today. We also have things like our award-winning, actually, IoT Connected Bundles, which are trying to facilitate that. And then the third way we're trying to do that is, we're trying to encourage our partners to take advantage of the power of this massive ecosystem we have. If you think about all of the OEMs who are building their solutions on Dell Technology, and you think about all of the partners who are trying to figure out how to offer a broader solution set to their customers on the OT side. Video Surveillance is a great example. Digital City Solutions is another one. That combination could be really, really powerful. So we have, I would say it's a very rudimentary capability right now, we call it Partner Finder. We also have something called Cloud Partner Connect, in case a partner needs service provider capability. We're going to build that out this year and include our OEM, so our partners can actually find like-minded partners who have the same kind of focus on Dell Technologies as a core component of the solutions. That means it's just going to be easier to integrate these things. >> Channels love bundles, they love turn-key because, again, that reduces their, cuts cost. >> Yeah, of course. >> They can wrap margin around that with services. >> Of course. >> Always a great playbook. >> Exactly. >> Simplicity wins. On the business side, I want to get your thoughts on the integration stuff. I love the simplicity, bundling, love that, but when you start dealing with channels within channels within channels, you get the embedded relationships. I got VMware on Azure, I got Dell Technologies with VxRail, going through this Microsoft guy. The joint sales, I mean, my mind kind of explodes. It must be really hard. How do you guys handle that complexity? Is that something you're used to? Is it not a problem? Computation programs and things of that nature? >> I mean, for sure, we got to figure out how to weed through all that, and then simplify it to a point that a partner understands what they get. If you do X, this is what you get. If you do Y, this is what, I mean, cause they have to make their own economic decisions about that. And so, yes, we have to weed through that. I think that one of the things, though, that we're very, very clear on now is, through our track system in our partner program, we've tried to ask partners to designate themselves. I am a service provider. I am a systems integrator. I am an OEM partner. The truth is, those lines are blurring, and are increasingly meaningless, and we have to meet partners where they are. So, we're working very hard this year on trying to get rid of a bunch of those tracks, simplifying the program. It doesn't really depend on what you call yourself, you want to deliver the solution how the customer wants to buy it, and we need to facilitate that. >> And be profitable, make some money. >> Of course. >> There's always that. Well Joyce, thank you so much for stopping by theCUBE cannon! >> Hey, theCUBE cannon! I love it! >> ...this afternoon, we appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Great. Thank you guys very much. Appreciate it. Thanks so much. >> For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live, from Dell Technologies World 2019. Thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to VMworld day three, continuing coverage for theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante sporting this fantastic salmon tie, and what you can't see is the matching salmon pants. Dave- >> There ya go. I still have my voice. (laughs) >> The outfit game is on point, Dave. >> Thank you. >> So we've been here, this is our third day, this is a huge event, 25,000 or so people here, lots of great announcements. We're excited to welcome to theCUBE for the first time Mimi Spier the Vice President of the Internet of Things Business at Vmware, Mimi, it's great to have you! >> Thank you! I'm so happy to be here. >> Thanks for comin' on. >> Yeah, it's great. >> So, three action packed days, lot's of announcements, lots of momentum. You lead a team at VMware that launched the VMware IoT business about a year and a half ago, including, launching the product, the GTM strategy, the partner in marketing strategy. In the last year and a half, talk to us about the evolution of VMware IoT, the business challenges that you're helping customers to solve. >> Absolutely, so, this has been a journey for almost a couple years now, and, VMware saw a need to really start to look at what we'll call the edge or IoT use cases. Our customers started coming to us saying "Wait a minute, this is coming, I know my business units are starting to invest in IoT, I have no control over it, I have no exposure to it, what should I do?" And, we are really committed to being an infrastructure company, we knew that when started this journey, and we said "We really want to focus on infrastructure, but we want to help our customers go to the edge, really start to embrace this new opportunity in the industry, to be able to take advantage of this data." We call it, the data is the gold, how do you actually be able to take advantage of it? So, we're really excited, we just started the journey and now we've really this VMworld is where the momentum is starting to take off. >> How do you look at that opportunity? Because it's complicated, especially for a bunch of IT people, right? And now you're entering this world of operations technology. But how do you sort of look at the landscape of the market? >> I'm really glad you asked that, 'cause that's one of my favorite topics, so. I want our customers to think about, first of all, what are the mission critical objectives of their business? They shouldn't do IoT just to do IoT, they need to do what's right for their business; but I also think it's important that they look beyond that. So, if you look at some of the macro trends happening in the world today, there will need to be 70% more food that's created, and there's only 5% more land that it can be built on. There's going to be 300 million connected cars out on the roads There was a statistic that there will be two thirds of energy is consumed by cities, yet we still have very old ways of doing it, but it's in this very consolidated area; why would we not take advantage of that? So I think industries, whether you're in energy or you're in smart cities or you're in automotive, you have to really think about where is your industry going? And even IT people need to think about this, I think, and I'll explain why in a minute but, how can I actually create an industry and a company that can sustain in this future world, and also contribute to the future of what our world's going to be like. So I think, and the technology, and the way we set this up, and the architecture, is really the foundation to do that. So, that's where VMware comes in. >> Okay. And talk a little bit more about VMware's specific strategy as it relates to IoT. I mean I was at the big Dell announcement last fall. Okay, so you've got Dell sort of with existing relationships actually with a lot of the industrial giants. But now enter VMware, what's your strategy? >> So, first I want to say that Dell and VMware have come together into one big business unit to solve IoT and edge. And the beauty of that is we believe that our customers can really have a more simplistic way of achieving this infrastructure foundation, if we can offer these end-to-end solutions together; so I'll talk about how the Dell piece fits into the VMware strategy. But what VMware's trying to do is drastically simplify the complexity of the infrastructure and the foundation you'll need for IoT. So we want to extend what we're doing in the cloud and the multi-cloud, because we fundamentally believe most of our customers are actually in multiple clouds, private, public, multiple public, and actually be able to extend that down to whatever edge they need as well. Because of the amount of data that will be generated at the edge, there's going to be, I don't know, analysts say 50 to 75% of data will be generated at the edges of our business by 2020. And think about it, all of our applications today are in the cloud, so there must be edge computing that is local to be able to process that data. And there also needs to be, there's this heterogeneous set of devices that will need to be managed, monitored, secure, and collect that data; so this requires, it's complex, so we want to drastically simplify that and that's the overarching part of our strategy. But we also want to allow our customers to do it in a way that's secure, that's scalable, and that's manageable over time, so. >> So does that mean putting some, first of all the Dell partnership is interesting, and Alan Cohen one of our guest analysts this week said "Partnerships used to be like tennis, one-on-one, and now partnerships are like soccer." There's just so many parts of the ecosystem so that's sort of one observation, but. Are you sort of bringing VMware to the edge? Is that? >> We are, so we're bringing VMware to the edge, we announced a new portfolio of solutions called VMware Edge it will take advantage of the ability to do the compute edge which is the processing at the edge, and really extending our hyper-converge technology as a service, like we're doing for VMC on AWS, to the edge; and it includes our device edge, and there's a lot of things that is happening on the device edge, which is like gateways and things, that we want to help provide a more software-defined approach, as well as ensure that those can be managed, monitored, secure, across all the diverse set of devices. Now, you can't do that alone. The ecosystem you mentioned, I've never seen any in my history of my career the amount of collaboration that's going on across the ecosystem, because IoT is so hard; so, you really do need to collaborate. And we are collaborating with the IoT platform providers, the gateway and the thing providers, the hardware providers, the system integrators; it requires that to be successful. But what we want to do with Dell is do it in a way that we offer these end-to-end solutions so that it's just more simple, you can go to one place to consume it, to ensure that it gets deployed, and to actually support that solution, but offering it from a multitude of our partners, typically so. >> So let's dig into to simplicity because we hear that, Mimi, all the time, as you do too. Customers want choice, they want simplicity, right Dave? They want flexibility. >> They want it all! >> They want it all! We all want it all. But how is the VMware edge computing strategy, the technology level, actually facilitating simplicity, in what is inherently a complex world of multiple devices, multiple clouds, et cetera? Talk to us about the technology and the actual enablers of that simple approach they need. >> I'm so glad you asked me that! So, we've been saying very consistently, that we want to offer consistent infrastructure, consistent operations, but we want to give you the choice of your application platform or development platform. We're going to do the exact same thing at the edge. So everything that VMware customers experience in their private cloud, their SDDC solution, private cloud, public cloud, we are now going to offer as a service at the edge same infrastructure, same operational model as the HyperCloud model, but at the edge; with the choice of the application development tools that they would like, because, they might want Greengrass from Amazon, they might want the Azure, they might IoT Watson, whatever they want at the edge we want to be able to support that on our infrastructure, but still maintaining that simplicity of a consistent infrastructure no matter where you choose to run your applications. We want to just eliminate the even thought process, run your applications anywhere, on a consistent infrastructure, with the same management, the same operations, and move 'em around as much as you like. >> So is there an abstraction layer almost that this can enable so that that management of all of these different applications and development platforms can be really done seamlessly? >> Yeah, so Project Dimension we announced a tech preview, and, well we'll be launching it later this year, and it will have a management layer that allows you to move your infrastructure and be able to actually, actually it's a VMware managed solution, so we will do it for you, it's even more simple; but be able to choose where you want to run that appliance as a service or infrastructure, whether it be the public cloud, the private cloud or the data center, and the edge. So that is the new what you call extraction, it's almost a new dimension, no pun intended. >> Hence the name. >> Hence the name, of, across all of your different clouds, or edge. >> So the notes I had on dimension, a hybrid cloud control plane, and the end-to-end VMware stack, on-prem cloud at the edge. And I think I heard Lenovo, VMware, and Dell are the initial sort of platform providers. >> That's right, Lenovo, Dell is the hardware. >> And that, what's the consumption model, is that an as a service consumption model? >> So we'll start with as a service, and what that means is VMware will actually manage your hardware, your infrastructure, and your software, we will do it for you. Obviously with the collaboration of when to do it and if everything, because this could be at the edge running mission critical applications. We want to make sure the OT, it's really an opportunity for OT and IT to collaborate and ensure that it's meeting the OT needs as well. >> So it's bringing a cloud-like consumption model to the edge, which of course is huge for VMware, I think probably 10% of your business today is SaaS-based, and the trend is clear; and the trend is your friend as they say, but, it's not easy to necessarily get there. So that's exciting I think that you're delivering as a service. >> I think we got really lucky. We ended up with this hybrid cloud strategy, it was the right thing to do, it's absolutely where the market's gone, and we're now almost at a multi-cloud strategy. And that puts us at the perfect position because we have set up our customers to be flexible and be able to choose whatever cloud or private they want in a cloud, we are very easily able to extend that to the edge, so it puts us in a very good position. >> Talking about the ecosystem again, I mean IoT it's every industry, every sector, every size of company, and I want you to discuss an ISV piece of this it's a very complex situation. >> I would love to talk with ISVs. >> But there's so many ISVs it makes your eyes bleed when you look at the list of ISVs, hard to figure out, okay who's real, who's not, and who to partner with; how are you guys sorting all that out? >> Okay. So, we are the infrastructure, what is beautiful about that is we are not competing with ISVs at all, so they all want to work with us. And the ISVs in the IoT world consist of not only specific application providers, but also IoT platform providers. So it's the SAPs of the world, it's Microsoft, it's also the Bosch, the GE, everybody that wants to do something with that data and build applications it. Most of those are doing industry-specific things, so what we're going to do is take Project Dimension and we're going to offer appliances as a service for industry-specific use cases, and sometimes they're horizontal like building management, but we're going to pick the best ones that we think have the right solution that can scale to the level our customers need in a secure way, and doing the most rich experience with our data. In fact we have 15 different partners in our zone right now really showing what they can do across six different industries, and that's what we're going to do with them. We're also, with Pulse, so I need to talk a little bit about Pulse because it's my baby, we announced Pulse IoT Center 2.0. And what that is, is it's the ability to manage, monitor, and secure things, or IoT gateways. So, one example of that is surveillance, we are partnering with camera companies that also offer analytic applications for visualization and surveillance, and we offering an end-to-end solution. In fact we announced the Dell Technologies surveillance solution partnering with companies like Access Communications owned by Cannon, Pulse runs on the camera to ensure that that camera is working properly, hasn't been hacked into, can get patched, can get isolated, God forbid something happens; and we're doing the same thing across many of the device and thing providers as well, which really falls into that. >> Let's talk about- Sorry Mimi, let's talk about an actual customer. Where do they start in this conversation? Because as you were saying in the beginning, the world is going IoT, there's this proliferation of devices, companies are moving in this direction because they have no choice. We were talking with a school district yesterday and the proliferation of BYOD, all of the things. So where does the conversation start with a customer about VMware edge? Does it start with the business level leadership who need to be able to get a handle on this, and identify new revenue streams, new business models? Does it start with the technology folks who have to have the infrastructure to support it? What is that sort of, I'm a customer, maybe a hospital or what not, where do I start? >> Great question. So, it starts, it depends is the answer, it can start either way, even if it starts on the infrastructure side. What we always tell IT is that you really need to have a reason to do this. You need to work with your business, you need to prioritize, you need to understand the mission critical objectives of your business, the outcome you're trying to achieve; and then let's work together on a use case, and we can help solve it with your business. So, whether we go through IT and we really educate them on the importance of this digital foundation at the edge, and then we work with one of their businesses, maybe in security and surveillance, or maybe it's with a bank, the ATM group; actually there is a group that runs the ATMs and we're working with that group. It might be the bank of the future retail bank, and they're all different organizations with many different use cases, we'll work with all of them. The nice thing about starting with IT is IT understands the challenge that they're faced with, and they really want to have the impact that they've had on the IT organization now on the OT, OT's very siloed. So, anyway, it starts there, but, with our partners, and the beauty about working with partners like ISVs, it will start on the OT side, and it will start with a use case; and then they'll go to the IT side and say "Hey, what about VMware to solve this?" And the IT will say are you serious? That's a dream. So, it absolutely is both, but it has to have a business outcome. >> Mimi, how about the data model? I mean, we know from talking to IT people they understand data, they've lived data their whole lives. A lot of the operations side of the business is analog today, and it's becoming digital. What's the conversation like around data? >> So, okay, so my whole background is data, I started business intelligence and then analytics, and then big data, now IoT. The purpose of the data, so first of all it depends on the use case, so the one thing we like to educate our anyone we're talking to is that you are going to need deep learning, and you're going to need real-time analytics. And each use case will be unique, and depending on the use case, you will need a slightly different architecture. So we'll help support this foundation based on the data, it's always about the data, or actually even more importantly the insights you're trying to get from the data. Once you know your use case, then you can determine where am I getting this data? Although sometimes you already know. And what's the right analytic process? Am I doing machine learning, am I doing AI, am I doing just predictive analytics, do I want to do something quickly at the edge to determine something in real-time and then send it back to make that process smarter, that's actually what I think will ultimately happen, it will be a decision making loop that goes from the edge to the cloud and back. But that's the data conversation we have, and I could talk all day, just in that topic. (laughs) >> And I mean I know we're tight on time but, how prominent is the discussion around data ownership? I mean, does the factory own the data? Does the device manufacturer own the data? I mean yes and yes? I don't know. >> I mean, there is controversy there, but typically, I know the device manufacturers want to own the data, and often times they have access to that data. Every industry's slightly different, but at the end of the day, the customer should own the data, I mean they should at least have access to that data. And we will always say in our situation the customer, the data is yours. And we will work with the both of those organizations 'cause those will be our constituents to a use case, and we will do what's right for that use case, and hopefully everybody wins. It really does depend. If it's car manufacturer, they have to own the data, because they have to make sure that car's safe and secure, but there might need to be level of access that the consumers get as well, so. >> Mimi, thanks so much for stopping by. I can tell by your energy and your genuine passion for this, we're going to hear a lot more, Dave, about what VMware edge is doing and helping customers embrace the superpowers that Pat Gelsinger was talking about on Monday. Great to have you on the show, Mimi. >> Thank you for having me, have a great day. >> Thank you, for Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watch theCUBE, continuing coverage of VMworld 2018, this is our third day, stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest. (bubbly music)