>>Okay. We're back in Boston covering AWS reinvent 2022. This is our second live reinvent. We've done the other ones, uh, in between as digital. Uh, my name is Dave Lanta and you're watching the cube. Peter McKay is here. He's the CEO of sneaking ad Shani is the chief technical officer guys. Great to see you again. Awesome. Being here in Boston >>In July. It is Peter. You can't be weather's good weather. Yeah, red SOS. Aren't good. But everything else >>Is SOS are ruin in our sub, you know, >>Hey, they're still in the playoff, the hunt, you >>Know, all you gotta do is make it in. Yes. >>Right. And there's a new season. Simple >>Kinda like hockey, but you know, I'm worried they're gonna be selling at the trading >>Deadline. Yeah. I think they should be. I think it's you think so it's not looking good. Oh, >>You usually have a good angle on this stuff, but uh, well, Hey, we'll see. We'll go. I got a lot of tickets. We'll go and see the Yankees at least we'll see a winning team. Anyway, we last talked, uh, after your fundraising. Yeah. You know, big, big round at your event last night, a lot of buzz, one of the largest, I think the largest event I saw around here, a lot of good customers there. >>It's great. Great time. >>So what's new. Give us the update. You guys have made some, an acquisition since then. Integration. We're gonna talk >>About that. Yeah. It's been, uh, a lot has happened. So, uh, the business itself has done extremely well. We've been growing at 170% year, over year, a hundred percent growth in our number of customers added. We've done six acquisitions. So now we have, uh, five products that we've added to the mix. We've tripled the size of the company. Now we're 1300 people, uh, in the organization. So quite a bit in a very short period of time. >>Well, and of course my, in my intro, I, I said, reinvent, I'm getting ahead of myself. Right. >>Of course we'll >>Reinforced. We'll be at reinve >>In November. Are that's the next one at >>Reinforced. We've done a lot of reinvents by the way, you know? >>So there's a lot, lot of reinvention >>Here. So of course, well, you're reinventing security, right? Yes. So, you know, I try to, I think about when I go to these events, like, what's the takeaway, what's the epiphany. And we're really seeing the, the developer security momentum, and it's a challenge. They gotta worry about containers. They gotta worry about run time. They gotta worry about platform. Yeah. You guys are attacking that problem. Maybe describe that a >>Little bit for us. Yeah. I mean, for years it was always, um, you know, after the fact production fixing security in run time and billions and billions of dollars spent in fixing after the fact. Right. And so the realization early on with the was, you know, you gotta fix these issues earlier and earlier, we started with open source was the first product at wait. Then six, six years ago, then we added container security and we added infrastructure's code. We added code security. We added, um, most recently cloud security with the F acquisition. So one platform, one view that a developer can look at to fix all the issues through the, be from the beginning, all the way through the software development life cycle. So we call it developer security. So allowing developers to develop fast, but stay secure at the same time. >>So I like the fact that you're using some of your capital to do acquisitions. Yeah. Now a lot of M and a is, okay, we're gonna buy this company. We're gonna leave them alone. You guys chose to integrate them. Maybe describe what that process was like. Yeah. Why you chose that. Yeah. How hard it was, how long it took. Take us through that. >>Yeah. Yeah. I'll give, uh, two examples, maybe one on sneak, which was an acquisition of, of the company that was focused on, uh, code analysis, actually not for security. And we have identified the merit of what we need in terms of the first security solution, not an ability to take a security product and put it in the end of developer, but rather build something that will build into the dev motion, which means very fast, very accurate things that it can rely on source and not just on the build code and so on. And we have built that into the platform and by that our customers can gain all of their code related issues together with all of their ISE related issues together with all of the container issues in one platform that they can prioritize accordingly. >>Yeah. Okay. So, so talk more about the, the, the call, the few, the sneak cloud, right? Yeah. So the few name goes away. I presume, right. Or yes, it does. Okay. So you retire that and bring it in the brand is sneak. Yeah. Right. So talk about the cloud, what it does, what problems >>It's solving. Yeah. Awesome. And, and this goes exactly the same. As we mentioned on, on the code, we have looked at the, the, the cloud security solutions for a while now. And what we loved about the few team is that they were building their product with their first approach. Okay. So the notion is as followed as you are, you know, you're a CSO, you have your pro you have your program, you're looking, you have different types of controls and capabilities. And your team is constantly looking for threats. When we are monitoring your cloud environment, we can detect problems like, you know, your FL bucket is not exposing the right permissions and is exposed to the world or things like that. But from a security perspective, it might be okay to stop there. But if you're looking at an operation perspective, you need to know who needs to fix, how do they need to fix it? >>Where do they need to fix it? What will the be the impact if they would fix it? So what do we actually doing is we are connecting all the dots of the platform. So on one end, you know, the actual resources that are running and what's the implication in the actual deployed environment. On the other end, we get correlation back to the actual code that generates that. And then I can give that context both to the security person, the context of how it affects the application. But more importantly, the context for the developer is required to fix the problem. What's the context of the cloud. Yeah. And a lot of things are being exposed this way. And we can talk about that. Uh, >>So this is really interesting because, and look, I love AWS to do an amazing job. One of the other things I really like about 'em is it seems like they're not trying to go hard and monetize their security products. Mm-hmm, they're leaving that to the ecosystem, which I like. Yeah. Microsoft taken a little different approach, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ton a lot. But this, this, this example you're giving ad about the S3 bucket. So we heard in the keynotes yesterday about, you know, reasoning, AI reasoning, they said, we can say, is this S3 bucket exposed to the public? We can do that with math. Right. Yeah. But you're what I'm inferring is you don't stop there. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of other stuff that has to, >>And sometimes have to, not as simple, just as a configuration change, sometimes the correlation between what your application is doing affects what is the resulted experience of, you know, the remote user or in this case, the attacker, right. I mean, >>The application has access, who has access to the application, is this, this the chain. >>So propagates, you have to, you have to have a, a solution that looks both at have very good understanding of the application context. A very good understanding of what we refer to as the application graph, like understanding how it works, being able to analyze that and apply the same policies, both at development time, as well as run time. >>So there's, there's human to app. There's also a machine to machine. Can you guys help with that problem as well? Or is that sort of a futures thing or >>Could you, I'm not sure. I understand what >>Referring, so machines talking to machines, right. I mean, there's data flowing. Yep. You know, between those machines, right. It's not just the humans interacting with the application. Is that a trend that you see and is that something that you guys can solve? >>So at, at the end of the day, there is a lot of automation that happens both for, by humans for good reasons, as well as by humans for bads. Right. <laugh> and, and the notion is that we are really trying to focus on what matters to the developer as they're trying to improve their business around that. So both improves making sure they know, you know, quality problems or things of this kind. But as part of that, more importantly, when we're looking at security as a quality problem, making sure that we have a flow in the development life cycle that streamline what the developer is expecting to do as they're building the solution. And if every single point, whether it's the ID, whether it's the change management, whether it's the actual build, whether it's the deployed instance on the cloud, making sure that we identify with that and connect that back to the code. >>Okay. So if there's machine automation coming in, that shouldn't be there, you can sort of identify that and then notify remediate or whatever action should be >>Taken. Yeah. Identify, identify remediate. Yep. >>Yeah. We, we really focus on making sure that we help developers build better products. So our core focus is identify areas where the product is not built way in a good way, and then suggest the corrective action that is required to make that happen. >>And I think part of this is the, you know, just, uh, the speed of the software development today. I mean, you look at developers are constantly and not just look at sneak you're, you're trying to get so much more productivity outta the developers that you have. Every company is trying to get more productivity out of developers, incredible innovation, incredible pace, get those is a competitive advantage. And so what we're trying to do is we make it easier for developers to go fast innovate, but also do it securely and embed it without slowing them down, develop fast and secure. >>So again, I love, I love AWS love what they're doing. We heard, uh, yesterday from, from CJ, you know, a lot of talk about, you know, threat detection and, you know, some talk about DevOps, et cetera. But yeah, I, I, I didn't hear a lot about how to reduce the complexity for the CSO. And the reason I bring this up is it feels like the cloud is now the first level of defense and the CISO is, is becoming the next level, which is on the developer. So the developer is becoming responsible for security at a whole shift left, maybe shield. Right. But, but shift left is becoming critical. Seems like your role and maybe others in the ecosystem is to address my concern about simplifying the life of the CISO. Is that a reasonable way to think about it? I >>Think it's changing the role of the CISO. How so? You know, really it's, I, I think it's before it, in this, in the security organization and D you should chime in here is, you know, it used to be, I did, I owned all application security, I owned the whole thing and they couldn't keep up. Like, I think it's just every security organization is totally overwhelmed. And so they have to share the responsibility. They have to get that fix the issues earlier and earlier, because it's waiting too long. It's after the fact. And then you gotta throw this over the fence and developers have to fix it. So they've gotta find a new way because they're the bottleneck they're slowing down the company from, in innovating and bringing these applications to market. So we are the kind of this bridge between the security teams that wanna make sure the, that we're staying secure and the development organizations and engineering and CEOs go fast. We need you guys to go faster and faster. So we, we tend to be the bridge between the two of them. >>One of the things I really love happening these days is that we change the culture of the organization from a culture where the CSO is trying to, you know, push and enforce and dictate the policy, which, which they should, but they really wanna see the development team speak up like that. The whole motion of DevOps is that we are empowering them to make the decisions that are right for the business, right? And then there is a gap because on one hand, this is always like, you need to do this, you need to do this. You need to do that. And the dev teams don't understand how that impacts their business. Good enough. And they don't have the tools and, you know, the ability to add a source problem. So with the solution liken, we really empower the developers to bake security as part of their cycle, which is what was done in many other fields, quality, other things, everything, it, everything moves into development already, right? So we're doing that. And the entire discussion now changes into an enablement discussion. >>So interesting. Cause you saw, this is the role of the CSOs changing. How so? I see that in a way like frees, sneak the CSO with the cloud is becoming a compliance officer. Like you do this, you do this, you do this, you do this, you third >>One would take a responsibility >>Trying. Yeah. Right, right. And so you're flipping that equation saying, Hey, we're gonna actually make this an accelerant to your business. >>So, so set the policy, determine compliance, but make sure that the teams, the developers are building applications in compliance with your policy. Right. So make sure and, and don't allow them to do something. If they're doing, if they're developing an application with a number of vulnerabilities, you can stop that from happening so you can oversee it, but you don't have to be the one who owns it all the way through from beginning to, >>Or, or get it before it's deployed. So you don't have to go back after the fact and, and remediate it with, you know, but, >>But think about deploy, they're deploying apps today. I mean, they're updating by the hour, right? Where, you know, six years ago, five years ago, two years ago was every six to nine months. Right? So the pace of this innovation from developers is so fast that the old way of doing security can't keep up. Like they're built for six month release cycles. This is six hour release cycles. And so we had to, it has to change security. Can't stay the way it is. So what we've been doing for se seven years for application security is exactly what we're doing for cloud security is moving all that earlier. All these products that we've been building over the years is really taking these afterthought security components and bringing 'em all earlier, you know, bringing everything like cloud security is done after the fact. Now we can take those issues and bring 'em right to the developers who created that and can fix the issues. So it's code to cloud back to code in a very automated fashion. So doesn't slow developers down. >>Okay. So what's the experience. We all know there's, everybody has more than one cloud. What's the experience across clouds. Can you create a consistent, continuous experience, cloud agnostic, >>Agnostic, cloud agnostic, uh, development environment, agnostic, you know, language agnostic. So that's kind of the beauty oft where you have maybe other certain tools for certain clouds, uh, or certain languages or certain development environments, but you have to learn different tools, you know, and, and they all roll up to security in a different way. And so what we have done is consolidated all that spend for open source security, container security infrastructure, now, cloud security, all that spend and all that fragmentation all under one platform. So it's one company that brings all those pieces >>Together. So it's a single continuous experience. Yeah. The developer experience you're saying is identical. Yes. >>Actually one product >>It's entitlement that we're getting. Yes. So you're hiding the underlying complexities of the respective clouds and those primitives developer doesn't have to worry about them. No, I call that a super cloud super >>Cloud. >>Okay. But no, but essentially that's what you're, you're building, building on the, on this ed Walsh would say on the shoulders of giants. Yeah, exactly. You know, you don't have to worry about the hyperscale infrastructure. Yep. Right. That you're building a layer of value on top of that. Yes. Is, is that essentially a PAs layer or is it, is it, can I think of it that way or is it not? Hmm. Is it platform? I >>Mean, yeah. I, I, I would say that at the end of the day, the, the way developers want to use a security tool is the same. Right. So we expose our functionality to them in those ways, if you're using, you know, uh, uh, one GI repository or another, if you're using one cloud or we, we are agnostic to data, don't, it's not, it doesn't really affect us in that manner. Um, I want to add another thing about the, the experience and associated with the consolidation that Peter referred to, uh, earlier, when you have a motion that automatically assess, you know, uh, problems that the developer is putting as part of the change management, as example, you do creating pool request. Now adding more capabilities into that motion is easy. So from enablement of the team, you can add another functionality, add cloud at ISC, add code and so on like that, because you already, you already made the decisions on how you are looking at that. And now you're integrated at, into your developer workflows, >>Right? So it's, it's already, it's already integrated for open source, adding container and ISD is real easy. It's all, you've already done all the integrations. And so for us going to five products and eventually 6, 7, 8, all, all based on the integrations that you already have in the same workflows that developers have become a use accustomed >>To. And that's what we, a lot of work from the company perspective. Right. >>I can ask you about another sort of trend we're seeing where you see Goldman Sachs last reinvent announced a cloud product, essentially bringing their data, their tools, their software. They're gonna run it on AWS at the snowflake summit, uh, capital one announced the service running on snowflake, Oracle by Cerner, right? Yeah. You know, they're gonna be, do something on OCI. Of course, make 'em do that. But it's, it's a spin on Andreessens every company's a software company. It's like every company's now becoming digital, a software company building their own SAS, essentially building their own clouds, or maybe, maybe something they'll be super clouds. Are you seeing industry come to sneak and say, Hey, help us build products that we can monetize >>There companies. So, first off, I think kind of the first iteration is, you know, all these industries of becoming software driven, like you said, and more software is more software risk. And so that kind of led us down this journey of now financial services, you know, tech, you know, media and entertainment, financial services, healthcare. Now it's this long tail of, of low tech. Yeah. Within those companies, they are offering services to the other parts of the organization. We have >>So far, mostly >>Internal, mostly internal, other than the global SI. And some of the companies who do that for a living, you know, they build the apps for companies and they are offering a sneak service. So before I give you these, I update these applications. I'm gonna make sure I'm running. I'm, I'm, I'm signifying those applications to make sure that they're secure before you get them. And so that now a company like a capital one coming to us saying, I wanna offer this to others. I think that's a, that's a leap because you know, companies are taking on security of someone else's and I think that's a, that's not there yet. It may be, >>Do you think it'll happen? >>We do have the, uh, uh, threat Intel that we, we have a very, a very strong security group that constantly monitors and analyzing the threat. And we create this vulnerability database. So in open sources, an example, we're the fact of standard, uh, in the field. So many of our partners are utilizing the threat Intel feed of snake as part of their offering. Okay. If you go to dock as an example, you can scan with, with snake intelligence immediately out of the gate over there, right? Yeah. >>And tenable, rapid seven trend micro. They all use the vulnerability database as well. Okay. So a lot of financial institutions use it because they had, they'd have seven, 10 people doing re security research on their own. And now they can say, well, I don't have to have those seven. I've got the industry standard for vulnerability database from Steve. >>And they don't have to throw out their existing tool sets where they have skills. >>Yes, exactly. >>Peter bring us homes, give us the bumper sticker, summarize, you know, reinforce and kind what we can expect going forward. >>Yeah, no, I mean, we're gonna continue the pace. We don't see anything slowing, slowing us down in terms of, um, just the number of customers that are, that are shifting left. Everybody's talking about, Hey, I need to embed this earlier and earlier. And I think what they're finding is this, this need to rein reinnovate like get innovation back into their business. And a lot of it had to slow down because, well, you know, you, we can't let developers develop an app without it going through security. And that takes time. It slows you down and allows you not to like slow the pace of innovation. And so for us, it's it help developers go fast, incredibly, you know, quickly, aggressively, creatively, but do it in a secure way. And I think that balance, you know, making sure that they're doing what they're doing, they're increasing developer productivity, increasing the amount of innovation that developers are trying to do, but you gotta do it securely. And that's where we compliment really what every CEO is pushing companies. I need more productivity. I need more aggressive creativity, innovation, but you better be secure at the same time. And that's what we bring together for our customers. >>And you better do that without slowing us down. That's >>Don't trade off, slow >>Us down. Always had to make. Yes, guys. Thanks so much for coming to the cube. Thanks, David. Always great to see you guys see ID. Appreciate it. All right. Keep it right there. This is the Cube's coverage of reinforced 2022 from Boston. We'll be right back right after the short break.

(bright upbeat music) >> Welcome, everyone, to theCUBE's, continuing coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. And we are running one of the industry's most important and largest hybrid tech events of the year with AWS and its ecosystem partners. We have two live sets, two remote studios, and over 100 guests on the program talking about the next decade in cloud innovation. We're very excited to be welcoming back one of our CUBE alumni, Peter McKay, the CEO of Snyk. He's set to talk about reinventing application security with Snyk. Peter, welcome back to the program. >> It's great to be back, Lisa. Thanks for having me. >> Great to talk to you. So, my goodness, Snyk has had an incredible year, last year, this year, I was just looking at your Series F funding raised over 600 million in the month of September alone. Your valuation is, I think I saw over 9.6 billion, which is nearly doubled. This year-- >> Don't rush at 8.6, but yes, it was double the last time. Yeah, it's been been a crazy 2021, that's for sure. >> So, talk to me about some of that before we get into what you guys are doing with AWS. Let's talk about that, we talked about that funding. What are some of the strategic areas of investment? I know you've done a recent acquisition cloud skiff, but where are you really going to be focusing the Series F funding? >> Yeah, we've been very aggressive in building out our platform. We have a great vision for where we see developer security evolving and we want to get there fast. A lot of our customers and developers are kind of pushing us in that direction of really consolidating a platform. And so, to get there quickly, we do it organically building it ourselves, and we do it in inorganically where we can see other companies accelerate that roadmap. And so, it's this combination of very aggressive, organic expansion of both the breadth of our products, but also the depth, like adding more to our platform, but also the inorganic, because a lot of companies who have team and technologies that are very complimentary to what we're doing and allows us to continue to consolidate what is a very fragmented market in and around developers security. And so, we're going to continue to use the resources to accelerate that roadmap. The second part of it is, we are a little bit different than some companies where they kind of follow where the decision headquarters are of companies for us, we follow developers. And so, around the globe, Multinational Corporations have developers in the Philippines, in Argentina and all around the world and we needed to be there. And so, expanding our community, expanding our customer success organization around the world is critical for us. And so, that's something part of our kind of use of proceeds is the expansion of our go-to-market as well. >> Peter, modern development has changed. Next thing modern development has changed. So, traditional AppSec doesn't apply anymore. A new approach is needed. Talk to me about why Snyk believes that and what that new approach is. >> Yeah, you just go back to for 30 years, security was owned by application security teams and that's when it was kind of this waterfall application development model where they develop an app and every three, six, nine months, and then the security teams would audit that application and kind of send all the feedback, hear all the issues, go fix it, developers, and it was incredibly inefficient. And then you throw on top of this digital transformation and companies moving incredibly fast in building new applications. This agile development motion and all the incredible tools that allow developers to develop really fast. But then you get this very slow antiquated way of kind of testing it at the very end, right before you move the applications in production. So, it just didn't scale. And so, the concept is just way too late in the process. You really need to move security testing into that developer environment from the IDE, the CI/CD all the way through. So, when you're developing along the way, you're fixing the issues well ahead of time. And that's where modern development organizations are all this concept of shift left and building it in, into that's really the driver is moving security earlier and earlier in the software development life cycle. >> And that's key, especially you talked about the acceleration of digital transformation, but we've also seen the acceleration of the threat landscape in the last 20 months. There's been significant changes. The perimeter is so fragmented, it's expanding, the threat landscape goes all the way into outer space to low earth orbit these days. Talk to me about that as kind of a facilitator or an accelerator of what Snyk is doing to really focus on shifting security left with those developers. >> Yeah, I think people are kind of waking up to the fact that up to this point, they've spent billions and billions of dollars on endpoint securities and runtime security and all the things that are kind of in production. And they're realizing that, okay, well, why are we still vulnerable? Why are we still have these issues? And I think it's the realization that they're waiting too long to fix it. And a lot of the issues are happening. They're either new issues with moving to the cloud or they're issues that happen well before it got into production. And so, this realization that we've got to go earlier and earlier and fix these issues well before we go into production and don't wait till the very end. So, I think that's really driving the market to this shift lab. >> And you guys have actually kind of really pivoted your go-to-market model around that developers don't try and buy software the way that IT and security teams do. Talk to me about Snyk's GTM. >> Yeah, it's very unique in that it's really marrying this model developer security approach with the way developers want to buy. So, we start with our community and we do free content and tools all around building awareness for the developer community. We have, all of our products are free, so developers can try before they buy. And if you're truly a developer solution, you offer it free and let them use it. And then when they want to collaborate and they want to integrate and automate that moves from free to paid. So, it's very much of this bottoms up motion that really allowed developers to try MI. That's a big, big driver for our business, inbound motion drives 70% of our pipeline from them coming to us from this community. And then we come in kind of top down once they kind of get into different places. And we go in through those security organizations, which are trying to shift labs, trying to move security earlier, earlier and we work together with the security organizations to help move that to the developer world. So, you've got this bottoms up, developer adoption, viral adoption of Snyk within those organizations. Now, with the top-down kind of, and we become this bridge between the developer teams in engineering, and the security teams that are all trying to move in the same direction. And so, that's kind of how this market is evolved. And we're kind of that bridge for both those organizations. >> I was going to ask you about that, that bridge is critical, but also that bridge is a cultural change. I'm curious, how do you see organizations? It sounds like obviously you're, what over, I think, six, 700 customers now, a couple of million developers using the technology, so-- >> 1300 customers today >> 1300, okay. Wow! You have had a big year. 1300 customers, millions of developers using the technology. Talk to me a little bit about how you guys have figured out how to facilitate that cultural shift and shift security left, but also bridge between the IT and the security folks which have tended to be on sort of opposite sides of the spectrum. >> Yeah, I think the realization, I think a lot of people are very early on and I was... We'd been in the software industry for 25 years. Even nobody ever thought developers would care about security. Like there's no way developers really care about security. And really, if you think about, if you asked the developer, would you rather develop a secure app or an insecure app? If all things were equal, of course, they'd want it to be secure, but it needs to be easy. It needs to be like, don't slow me down, whatever you do, don't slow me down. And so, we have this, "Hey, it's all about speed of development, speeds, speed, speed." So, for us, we need to make it embedded, like integrated completely into that software development life cycle. So, developers don't have to be security experts, developers don't have to get out of their flow to do it, learn a different piece of software to figure out it's all embedded into that process. So, you can be fast and you can be agile, but you can also be secure at the same time. And so, part of that is embedding education and other things in there to learn that expansion of getting in the door and kind of building that momentum within these development communities all around the world. And so, I think we help all our customers with that kind of developer adoption and working together with the security teams and engineering teams on how we roll that out around best practices. And in some of the things we've learned over the six and a half years of doing this. >> It sounds very strategic and methodical and a great approach that is obviously quite successful. We talked about the growth trajectory now, 1300 customers. Let's talk about what you guys are doing with AWS. Here we are at reinvent this year. Talk to me about this Snyk, AWS partnership. >> Yeah, it's been really gaining momentum over the past year and a half, almost two years now. AWS, a lot of the workloads, one of the reasons, a lot of the applications don't go to the cloud is because of security issues and moving workloads to the cloud. Also developing applications in the cloud, security is a critical part of it. So, AWS is obviously infrastructure, but they also need solutions that allow them to make sure that those companies that are developing on AWS are secure. And so, we've integrated our Intel database into AWS inspector. We have a lot of offerings, very specific AWS offerings that our mutual customers can leverage. And we work very collaboratively with AWS in not only our technical roadmap with them, but also our go-to-market side, which is very much aligned. And it's continuing, we kind of, I say, we're in the second inning of that game. We got a lot more coming. >> Okay, but well aligned. Give me a customer example, if you will, have joined AWS Snyk customer that you've really helped with this transition, shifting security left they're building apps in the AWS cloud very successfully and securely. >> Yeah, I'd well, almost every company has some relationship with size with AWS. And so, for us, it's one of the first questions we ask anybody coming in is what's your relationship with one of the cloud vendors? And that inevitably it'll be, yeah, we have a relationship with AWS. And so, we talk about our roadmap that we have with AWS. They can buy our software through the AWS marketplace. You could leverage kind of your EDPs that you have with AWS to kind of build that scale. So, we're very technically aligned with the AWS platform. And so, you look at financial services, we've done a fair amount of financial services, insurance companies that are all kind of moving more workloads to AWS. Some of them have been our customers before, some of them separate from AWS, and now they're kind of, "Hey, can I move all my apps over and leveraged, Snyk in that process?" So, it's now, a good part of our go-to-market motion is coming through AWS marketplace as well. So, it's been a very successful partnership on both parties. >> A lot of momentum there, speaking of momentum, we talked about the funding raise this year alone, tremendous momentum going on for the company. What are some of the things that we can expect to see from Snyk in calendar year 22? >> Yeah, well, aggressive roadmap. I mean, that's still, we see, we have four modules today. We started with one and we added to, that was open to a security. We added a container security, infrastructure as code security. Then we added code security or a stats solution. We see modules five, six, seven coming out. we made an acquisition of drift technology, adding into kind of adding some more depth. So, you're going to see just a lot more continued aggressiveness on our side, as we scale both our engineering, organically and inorganically, but also, the go-to-market, now we're almost in all the major countries around the world and we're going to continue to invest in building that out and going where the developers are, the 28 million developers around the world. Our goal is to reach every one of them as fast as we possibly can with our free or paid, or whatever way is to get to 28 million developers as fast as we can. >> So, for those developers watching, where do you want to point them to go to, to start their free trial. >> Just go right to our website, snyk.io and you can get all of our products free, you can chat, schedule demos, you can do everything very easily if not. And it's very self-service so, if you don't want to talk to anybody, you don't have to talk to anybody, but if you do, we have plenty of people you can talk to. That's our world, frictionless motion. >> Frictionless and contactless at the same time, Peter, congratulations on the growth and momentum of the company. What you're doing, the evolution of the partnership with AWS and that lofty goal to reach 28 million developers. Am looking forward to our next conversation to see where you are on that progress. >> Same thing, same here, Lisa, thank you for your time. >> Oh, likewise. For Peter McKay, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. Stick around, more great content coming up next. (soft upbeat music)

(bright upbeat music) >> Welcome, everyone, to theCUBE's, continuing coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. And we are running one of the industry's most important and largest hybrid tech events of the year with AWS and its ecosystem partners. We have two live sets, two remote studios, and over 100 guests on the program talking about the next decade in cloud innovation. We're very excited to be welcoming back one of our CUBE alumni, Peter McKay, the CEO of Snyk. He's set to talk about reinventing application security with Snyk. Peter, welcome back to the program. >> It's great to be back, Lisa. Thanks for having me. >> Great to talk to you. So, my goodness, Snyk has had an incredible year, last year, this year, I was just looking at your Series F funding raised over 600 million in the month of September alone. Your valuation is, I think I saw over 9.6 billion, which is nearly doubled. This year-- >> Don't rush at 8.6, but yes, it was double the last time. Yeah, it's been been a crazy 2021, that's for sure. >> So, talk to me about some of that before we get into what you guys are doing with AWS. Let's talk about that, we talked about that funding. What are some of the strategic areas of investment? I know you've done a recent acquisition cloud skiff, but where are you really going to be focusing the Series F funding? >> Yeah, we've been very aggressive in building out our platform. We have a great vision for where we see developer security evolving and we want to get there fast. A lot of our customers and developers are kind of pushing us in that direction of really consolidating a platform. And so, to get there quickly, we do it organically building it ourselves, and we do it in inorganically where we can see other companies accelerate that roadmap. And so, it's this combination of very aggressive, organic expansion of both the breadth of our products, but also the depth, like adding more to our platform, but also the inorganic, because a lot of companies who have team and technologies that are very complimentary to what we're doing and allows us to continue to consolidate what is a very fragmented market in and around developers security. And so, we're going to continue to use the resources to accelerate that roadmap. The second part of it is, we are a little bit different than some companies where they kind of follow where the decision headquarters are of companies for us, we follow developers. And so, around the globe, Multinational Corporations have developers in the Philippines, in Argentina and all around the world and we needed to be there. And so, expanding our community, expanding our customer success organization around the world is critical for us. And so, that's something part of our kind of use of proceeds is the expansion of our go-to-market as well. >> Peter, modern development has changed. Next thing modern development has changed. So, traditional AppSec doesn't apply anymore. A new approach is needed. Talk to me about why Snyk believes that and what that new approach is. >> Yeah, you just go back to for 30 years, security was owned by application security teams and that's when it was kind of this waterfall application development model where they develop an app and every three, six, nine months, and then the security teams would audit that application and kind of send all the feedback, hear all the issues, go fix it, developers, and it was incredibly inefficient. And then you throw on top of this digital transformation and companies moving incredibly fast in building new applications. This agile development motion and all the incredible tools that allow developers to develop really fast. But then you get this very slow antiquated way of kind of testing it at the very end, right before you move the applications in production. So, it just didn't scale. And so, the concept is just way too late in the process. You really need to move security testing into that developer environment from the IDE, the CI/CD all the way through. So, when you're developing along the way, you're fixing the issues well ahead of time. And that's where modern development organizations are all this concept of shift left and building it in, into that's really the driver is moving security earlier and earlier in the software development life cycle. >> And that's key, especially you talked about the acceleration of digital transformation, but we've also seen the acceleration of the threat landscape in the last 20 months. There's been significant changes. The perimeter is so fragmented, it's expanding, the threat landscape goes all the way into outer space to low earth orbit these days. Talk to me about that as kind of a facilitator or an accelerator of what Snyk is doing to really focus on shifting security left with those developers. >> Yeah, I think people are kind of waking up to the fact that up to this point, they've spent billions and billions of dollars on endpoint securities and runtime security and all the things that are kind of in production. And they're realizing that, okay, well, why are we still vulnerable? Why are we still have these issues? And I think it's the realization that they're waiting too long to fix it. And a lot of the issues are happening. They're either new issues with moving to the cloud or they're issues that happen well before it got into production. And so, this realization that we've got to go earlier and earlier and fix these issues well before we go into production and don't wait till the very end. So, I think that's really driving the market to this shift lab. >> And you guys have actually kind of really pivoted your go-to-market model around that developers don't try and buy software the way that IT and security teams do. Talk to me about Snyk's GTM. >> Yeah, it's very unique in that it's really marrying this model developer security approach with the way developers want to buy. So, we start with our community and we do free content and tools all around building awareness for the developer community. We have, all of our products are free, so developers can try before they buy. And if you're truly a developer solution, you offer it free and let them use it. And then when they want to collaborate and they want to integrate and automate that moves from free to paid. So, it's very much of this bottoms up motion that really allowed developers to try MI. That's a big, big driver for our business, inbound motion drives 70% of our pipeline from them coming to us from this community. And then we come in kind of top down once they kind of get into different places. And we go in through those security organizations, which are trying to shift labs, trying to move security earlier, earlier and we work together with the security organizations to help move that to the developer world. So, you've got this bottoms up, developer adoption, viral adoption of Snyk within those organizations. Now, with the top-down kind of, and we become this bridge between the developer teams in engineering, and the security teams that are all trying to move in the same direction. And so, that's kind of how this market is evolved. And we're kind of that bridge for both those organizations. >> I was going to ask you about that, that bridge is critical, but also that bridge is a cultural change. I'm curious, how do you see organizations? It sounds like obviously you're, what over, I think, six, 700 customers now, a couple of million developers using the technology, so-- >> 1300 customers today >> 1300, okay. Wow! You have had a big year. 1300 customers, millions of developers using the technology. Talk to me a little bit about how you guys have figured out how to facilitate that cultural shift and shift security left, but also bridge between the IT and the security folks which have tended to be on sort of opposite sides of the spectrum. >> Yeah, I think the realization, I think a lot of people are very early on and I was... We'd been in the software industry for 25 years. Even nobody ever thought developers would care about security. Like there's no way developers really care about security. And really, if you think about, if you asked the developer, would you rather develop a secure app or an insecure app? If all things were equal, of course, they'd want it to be secure, but it needs to be easy. It needs to be like, don't slow me down, whatever you do, don't slow me down. And so, we have this, "Hey, it's all about speed of development, speeds, speed, speed." So, for us, we need to make it embedded, like integrated completely into that software development life cycle. So, developers don't have to be security experts, developers don't have to get out of their flow to do it, learn a different piece of software to figure out it's all embedded into that process. So, you can be fast and you can be agile, but you can also be secure at the same time. And so, part of that is embedding education and other things in there to learn that expansion of getting in the door and kind of building that momentum within these development communities all around the world. And so, I think we help all our customers with that kind of developer adoption and working together with the security teams and engineering teams on how we roll that out around best practices. And in some of the things we've learned over the six and a half years of doing this. >> It sounds very strategic and methodical and a great approach that is obviously quite successful. We talked about the growth trajectory now, 1300 customers. Let's talk about what you guys are doing with AWS. Here we are at reinvent this year. Talk to me about this Snyk, AWS partnership. >> Yeah, it's been really gaining momentum over the past year and a half, almost two years now. AWS, a lot of the workloads, one of the reasons, a lot of the applications don't go to the cloud is because of security issues and moving workloads to the cloud. Also developing applications in the cloud, security is a critical part of it. So, AWS is obviously infrastructure, but they also need solutions that allow them to make sure that those companies that are developing on AWS are secure. And so, we've integrated our Intel database into AWS inspector. We have a lot of offerings, very specific AWS offerings that our mutual customers can leverage. And we work very collaboratively with AWS in not only our technical roadmap with them, but also our go-to-market side, which is very much aligned. And it's continuing, we kind of, I say, we're in the second inning of that game. We got a lot more coming. >> Okay, but well aligned. Give me a customer example, if you will, have joined AWS Snyk customer that you've really helped with this transition, shifting security left they're building apps in the AWS cloud very successfully and securely. >> Yeah, I'd well, almost every company has some relationship with size with AWS. And so, for us, it's one of the first questions we ask anybody coming in is what's your relationship with one of the cloud vendors? And that inevitably it'll be, yeah, we have a relationship with AWS. And so, we talk about our roadmap that we have with AWS. They can buy our software through the AWS marketplace. You could leverage kind of your EDPs that you have with AWS to kind of build that scale. So, we're very technically aligned with the AWS platform. And so, you look at financial services, we've done a fair amount of financial services, insurance companies that are all kind of moving more workloads to AWS. Some of them have been our customers before, some of them separate from AWS, and now they're kind of, "Hey, can I move all my apps over and leveraged, Snyk in that process?" So, it's now, a good part of our go-to-market motion is coming through AWS marketplace as well. So, it's been a very successful partnership on both parties. >> A lot of momentum there, speaking of momentum, we talked about the funding raise this year alone, tremendous momentum going on for the company. What are some of the things that we can expect to see from Snyk in calendar year 22? >> Yeah, well, aggressive roadmap. I mean, that's still, we see, we have four modules today. We started with one and we added to, that was open to a security. We added a container security, infrastructure as code security. Then we added code security or a stats solution. We see modules five, six, seven coming out. we made an acquisition of drift technology, adding into kind of adding some more depth. So, you're going to see just a lot more continued aggressiveness on our side, as we scale both our engineering, organically and inorganically, but also, the go-to-market, now we're almost in all the major countries around the world and we're going to continue to invest in building that out and going where the developers are, the 28 million developers around the world. Our goal is to reach every one of them as fast as we possibly can with our free or paid, or whatever way is to get to 28 million developers as fast as we can. >> So, for those developers watching, where do you want to point them to go to, to start their free trial. >> Just go right to our website, snyk.io and you can get all of our products free, you can chat, schedule demos, you can do everything very easily if not. And it's very self-service so, if you don't want to talk to anybody, you don't have to talk to anybody, but if you do, we have plenty of people you can talk to. That's our world, frictionless motion. >> Frictionless and contactless at the same time, Peter, congratulations on the growth and momentum of the company. What you're doing, the evolution of the partnership with AWS and that lofty goal to reach 28 million developers. Am looking forward to our next conversation to see where you are on that progress. >> Same thing, same here, Lisa, thank you for your time. >> Oh, likewise. For Peter McKay, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. Stick around, more great content coming up next. (soft upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: From around the globe, It's theCUBE with digital coverage of DockerCon live 2020 brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello, welcome back to our DockerCon 2020 DockerCon 20 coverage this is theCUBE virtual here in the Palo Alto studios with our quarantine crew, I'm John Furrier your host, got two great guests here. Scott Johnson is the CEO of Docker and Peter McKay CEO of Snyk hot security startup with some big news, you guys have rolled out, but really it's got an impact to developers. Scott and Peter great to see you guys again. >> Great to see John. >> Good to see you John. I'm glad we can at least talk remotely. I wish we were face to face, but obviously we're living in a time of crisis were you starting to see a Cambrian explosion starting to emerge where all people are recognizing that a lot is going to come out of this. You guys have announced a strategic alliance. Can you guys take a minute to explain what is this alliance and what does it mean ? Scott, we'll start with you. >> Absolutely, and thank you, Peter, thank you, John, for this chance to share with you all that's going on it's very exciting. Look, what we saw together as teams, both, both Peter's and ours was the developer experience is getting better and better in terms of faster and faster iterations but we weren't in the world of the Docker Desktop and Docker Hub experience having kind of scary as a first pass citizen that was really right in front and center with developer workflow. And so in working with Peter's team, we realized that the two companies had the same vision of like, let's bring that developer for security just right in center, in the user experience in the command line, in the tooling and just make it natural. So that developers could continue to iterate rapidly, continue to ship value, ship features fast. But in addition to doing that, do so in a secure fashion and in a secure manner. And really that's what this partnership is about is making security just kind of built in natural developer friendly developer first. We're very very excited to partner with Snyk and then bring this to development community. >> Peter, you guys have a unique business model, you're developer first security. What does this mean to you? Docker has got millions of developers out there who know containers, there's certainly developer first. What does this alliance mean to you guys as Snyk? >> Yeah, when you think of the developer community, you think of Docker, I mean, that's when we looked at the front end of our funnel, the people who we go after and our users, it's developers, and when you think developers, you think Docker and so we've got... Scott and I got together I'd say four or five months ago where we started talking about building a tighter relationship together the synergies between what he was doing and the team was doing, we're doing at Docker. And what we were trying to do is kind of embed the developer experience and develope and integrate security into that really made a very compelling value proposition together for developers and embedding that security into that application development into your containers and your image and your application development life cycle just made it a better developer experience overall. >> We've been talking to a lot of developers, certainly for DockerCon and just outside of the industry anecdotally, is that Docker really revolutionized, container ideas has been such a great win for developers. Containerizing applications really has changed the game, has spawned the generation of Kubernetes and cloud native microservices. What specifically is going on with you guys in this partnership? Where's the security fit in because can I just do a scan and scan the vulnerabilities? I mean, what's unique here? What does this mean for developers? What's going on with the alliance? >> Yeah, I'll take it first, Peter, but then jump in. So John, in the history of application development, so often security is not addressed until the end. And so developers they're shipping rapidly. They're they're iterating quickly, but then it gets, right before production and the alarm goes off and security team swoops in and security is often seen as a point of friction or a way to delay applications from getting the market and delivering value quickly. And this partnership completely reverses that where instead of having security be further down the stream of the tool chain or the application development life cycle, we're pulling it right up in front and having it be right alongside all the other activities that a developer is doing around building their code around, testing their code around, running their code locally. And it's the whole shift left I'm mean I'm sure you've seen out there and we are shifting this as far left it can be where it's right there on the local Docker Desktop in the command line as a primary emotion and its primary tool to building a great secure application as any other aspect of the tool chain. And that was really the focus of the partnership, which is like, make this just native and as far left as possible and not make security an afterthought or something that gets taken place by other Ops people downstream. >> Peter. >> If you think can about... That's the whole concept of how Snyk was founded. We all came from an application security background where it was security tools for security people, and it really... The whole industry needed this fundamental shift in the approach. And as Scott said that whole shifting left concept to really scale security in the right way and is to embed it into that application development life cycle into embedded into the tools that developers use each and every day. So they wanted to be a security expert, a developer doesn't need to be someone who knows all the vulnerabilities, they just need to know how to develop the most creative, indeed the most agile organization to develop, much better applications. And if they can do it in a more secure way they would obviously do it, but don't make them do something dramatically different and don't ask them to be security experts. And that's what we've tried to do in the partnership with Docker allows us to embed that continuous security insights into that whole development loop to when they develop these applications, they're secure when they're done and all the way through that development life cycle, you're testing for vulnerabilities in auto remediating along the way. So it allows them to develop very creative at the pace in which they want to develop. And it makes them more secure by doing it. >> Yeah, let me pick up on Peter's point there, which is so often security has been something that's discovered late in the process, right? Either just before production or sometimes even in production. And then just think about that feedback loop. It's got to go all the way back upstream all the way to the element team developers got to go find what they're working on. Well, maybe not hours ago, it could have been days ago could even be weeks ago and then both figure out how to remediate, get it all the way through the inner loop and the outer loop. We're completely blowing that up and disrupting that by bringing it all the way forward such that the feedback is right then and there with the developer in the moment on the laptop, in their inner loop and giving them the immediate response that they need and the single they need to take action remediate and then move on to the next creative thing they can do is they're just thinking about shortening that whole feedback loop. And really as Peter said, building security in from the get go because the signal is there to give them a indication of what they need to do right then and there. >> Great, I want to get into the... I mean, I can see the workflow advantage, so I totally get that. I've heard on theCUBE many times that security has got to be built in from the beginning. We've heard that before many times, I don't think I've heard security discussed this way, combined with the trends arounds automation. So can you guys talk about how that fits in? Because I get shifting left all that workflow, all goodness. But now I'm assuming there's a whole op side of security. And then if I'm trying to automate things and that's the real trend we're seeing here, how does that all work? Does that all come together? And it's this kind of unique that you guys are doing? Can you unpack that a little bit and clarify? >> Yeah, I mean, this has been something that we've been focused on quite a bit. I mean, the first it's... Used to be that you used to find a lot of vulnerability and yes we find a lot of vulnerabilities. And what we tried to do is focused on the prioritization and really hear the critical ones that developers need to fix first, second, third, and fourth based on severity. And we build that all in and that's something that we learned that we built into the process. And then last phase is this auto remediation. To the extent we can auto correct and auto fix, which is becoming increasingly a bigger part because the more you learn about the vulnerabilities in some of the fixes, the more you can automate and remediate that just makes the whole development process that much more productive and efficient. And that's really what we're trying to do, not only just find vulnerabilities, prioritize them, what are the ones that are what the team feels as severity one twos and threes embed that into the process. So you fix these are the ones you're fixing first, second, and third, into the extent they could be auto remediated, then fix them automatically. So we're trying to build that increasingly into the application. >> So, is this the first secure containerization deployment model? I mean, have other people have been doing this? I mean, is this new to Docker new to the industry? What's what's going on? >> Well, so we're here to talk about the partnership and of course there's a wealth of a very active ecosystem in and around security and other spaces. But we think this is the first that brings it this close to the developer in the moment in the command line on the desktop. And thus we think it has a lot of value to offer development team. >> I'll put my developer hat on. I'm one of the millions of developers, containers are part of my daily design coding, What's in it for me? Why does it matter to me as a developer? What does it do for me? Save time? What's the impact for the developer? >> Well, you think about... I mean, just look at the old model, right? The old model is you develop an application, you send it to the security team and they'll audit it. They'll tell you all the vulnerabilities and then they'll ship it back to you. You fix it, then they'll check it again. And they were waiting in the queue and then they'll tell you what's wrong and they'll send it back and think of that long. It's just like... Can you remember in the early day, when they a quality issue, fix it earlier in the life cycle of an application, don't wait till the end where the quality is embedded into the process. And so what you find is, the developers are embracing this and we have our like Docker, you have a freemium where developers can try it and realize that look, and I'm going to have to do security anyway, I mean, I have to develop secure application. If I can use a tool that's built for me and embedded into my development life cycle so I don't have to be a security expert and I don't have to wait for the security teams, to tell me what's wrong. And I can embed this all the way through and then not have to go through that painful step at the very end, to go through that security audit. I would do that any day of the week-- >> (mumbles) it back to you, do the scans, "Hey, you got to fix this." And then developer Scott your point moves on. They're coding, right? I mean, that's a problem. >> Developers want to ship, right? I mean, going back to your point, John, like one of the revolutions of Docker is that it is given the expectation that developers can ship faster. And right now in much of the state of the state, because security is important, like it can serve as a gate. And as Peter just walked you through it can slow down developer shipping and having impact. And so for you, the developer, John, like this gives you freedom to ship early often, high-frequency everything the promise of the container development model. This really unleashes that. >> Yeah 'cause that rails around the security policies too allows them to be projected in as syntax, if you will, or as part of the coding environment so I don't have to worry about it. I mean, at the end of the day, it's peace of mind, more than anything, time is certainly a pain in the butt, but yeah, as a developer, the creativity we needed more than ever. Okay, so with the COVID crisis-- >> One last point I want to make on that, sorry, it's also the security teams want it to because they don't want to be the bottleneck. They don't want to be doing this at the last minute and having all the pressure on them. I mean, they know that a big chunk of their business is going through these applications. So a lot of the budget dollars that come from people buying Snyk and embedding it into the process is from security because they can't keep up this digital transformation and what companies are going through. They don't want to be, there's one of two things. Either they're going to be the bottleneck or the developers are going to go around them and just put an application in the cloud in it and ship the container, put it anywhere then going around security. So they don't want that either. So there's just a very tight alignment between developers want to ship fast and security teams want to do the same. >> I hate to say it, but the whole agility is now not only just normal for us insiders in the industry. It's proven now with this COVID crisis that you have to be fast, you have to be at scale. And I think this speaks to some of the experiences you guys had in the industry, you were talking earlier. If you're not moving at the pace that you need to move at the scale you need the automation it's proven cloud native is going is completely ratified in my mind. There's no doubt, that means microservices is front and center and this change that's happening right now. And when we come out of this pandemic, there's going to be growth winners and not growth winners. We flat line to decline or winners, and it's all going to be based on microservices. So for the developers out there going to be called into the office as someday or in a Zoom, let's get these apps double down on this, kill that project. There's going to be those conversations >> It's happening right now, John. So look, what's happening, as a result of COVID an entire bodies of human activity are shifting from offline online. Like social, consumer, B2B, healthcare going down the list, finance, commerce, retail, like massive tectonic shift going from offline online. That means massive demand for new applications, new application development, and quickly, some this shift is happening and there's a bunch of businesses that didn't have exposure to digital they're like, "Oh my goodness, I need a digital strategy. "I need a digital channel. "I need a digital revenue stream." And so the demand for new applications quickly is exploding through the roof. And we see this across the board in our industry right now which is very, very fortunate given the other circumstances and other industries, but you're absolutely right. Like this lets them ship faster. And now is the time when they need to ship and ship fast. >> And the budgets are going to be allocated on these new projects was just a nuance in your point, it's new projects and then there's fixing modernizing the old stuff. Because look at Walmart, Walmart got hamstrung on the eCommerce side, they just killed their jet acquisition. They spent $3 billion on, this is the reality. This is not like just a strategy to do innovation, innovation strategy or some walk down, digital transformation lane. This is happening, it has to be done. What do they do? >> Its interesting and it starts, we always say, we start with the new and replaced the old. We start with a new application, it usually is always the case where we usually start with a lot of the companies is a new (mumbles) on application. And then it expands from there. And so know you look at what you used to be the best practices were tech companies, and then it moved to financial services, industries and insurance and then in retail, now you look at manufacturing, you look across the board, as Scott said, this offline to online, is driving so much of the empowering developers to take on more responsibility and to own more of it, but to be faster and to be more agile. And that's really, what's driving this big shifts in the market. And like you said earlier, if they're not there, they're in trouble because this market is driving that direction. >> I want to get both of your comments on this final question, because even with the progression of the developers from the Steve bomber developer development developers, speech on YouTube to developers on the front lines, cloud native, and now today it's been a progression. And I think it's always been the developers on the front lines are getting closer to the front lines. I think now it's even more compelling because there's a scale and agility speed game going on. So I think it's just another step function, developer relevance. It's not so much, they've never been close to, they have been getting closer they're in the business conversation and the ones that could move fast are the ones going to deliver the value. So if automation is in the playbook, if cloud need is not in the playbook, this is going to be the new developer equation, the ones that meet that will be successful. Can you guys react to that and your thoughts? >> Go ahead Peter. >> I mean, I think what we're trying to do is make that developer experience just one from just the partnership with Docker and is a key, just making it really easy, do the integration, do a lot of the work, make the developer experience as seamless as possible, make it very efficient for them, make it easy for them to try and buy, make it just a great experience and allow them to, or empower them to take on more of the responsibility of getting that App published and in the containers out the door. And that's what we're excited about with the partnership with Docker is that with the number of developers that they have, the work that we do together, and the roadmap that we have is really making that experience just an incredible journey for our developer and that's what we want to continue to make sure we foster. >> Scott, the new relevance of developers, your thoughts. >> Yeah, I would only--building on Peter's point, observed that a lot of the developer expectations are informed by the stack and what's possible. And to your points earlier about the previous waves, John, like, developers are important, but their full potential if you will was perhaps muted or gated because there was not a clean abstraction between the application on the underlying infrastructure. And now, as we know, Dockerization and the surrounding ecosystem of Kubernetes and other tools, we have a much cleaner separation between the Application and the infrastructure, and that allows and set expectations for a much higher cadence of release much faster, time to value, much more agile operations in terms of responding to competitors and the market and your customers. And so with that expectation, how do you unleash that? And this partnership is really key to that, by taking the friction out. As we talked about kind of historical security models and bringing a new model that bring the security way left right into the developers around that experience. And then in some sense, really fulfills that ability to move quickly, react in an agile fashion and have an impact as quickly as possible. >> That's awesome security built into the workflow, automated industry first, guys thanks so much for a great partnership, but the final work at the plugin for the relationship going forward, how's that work is going to be available is integration code is it development? Give a quick plug for what's happening, the relationship and what's happening going forward? >> Look, Docker only succeeds if the ecosystem succeeds. and we're very very proud and humbled to join arms with Peter and the Snyk team as a partner in the security ecosystem. And so you'll see us not only in this integrated developer experience on the command line, which is going to be very, very valuable to developers that we've been talking about, but you'll see us out there promoting the solution in different forms and community groups. And so it doesn't stop and end with the DockerCon experience, look for us in the year ahead to do more and more together. >> Awesome. >> I agree and I think that just culturally and the way the organizations work really well together, I think this is a beginning of a longer journey and a longer partnership we're going to have together with Scott and the team, so we're excited. I think the validation, the early validation we've got from the development teams that we've been talking to around the world, I think there's tremendous desire for this to happen, and we're excited to launch the journey together, with Scott and team. >> It's been a lot of fun watching this progression, like you said, create that headroom, the developable, we'll take it right up and there'll be another step function, more progression. Great job guys. Congratulations on the great partnership >> We need to security built in, we need more creativity. We need that, we need this new modern era to be flourishing. Thanks for your time, appreciate it. >> Thanks John. >> Thank you. >> theCUBE coverage, virtual CUBE coverage of DockerCon 20. I'm John Furrier your host, along with Docker for DockerCon 20 #Docker 20. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for our next segment of DockerCon 20 virtual. (upbeat music)

>> From the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston Massachusetts, it's "The Cube." (groovy techno music) Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hello, everyone. The rise of open source is really powering the digital economy. And in a world where every company is essentially under pressure to become a software firm, open source software really becomes the linchpin of digital services for both incumbents and, of course, digital natives. Here's the challenge, is when developers tap and apply open source, they're often bringing in hundreds, or even thousands of lines of code that reside in open sourced packages and libraries. And these code bases, they have dependencies, and essentially hidden traps. Now typically, security vulnerabilities in code, they're attacked after the software's developed. Or maybe thrown over the fence to the sec-ops team and SNYK is a company that set out to solve this problem within the application development life cycle, not after the fact as a built-on. Now, with us to talk about this mega-trend is Peter McKay, a friend of The Cube and CEO of SNYK. Peter, great to see you again. >> Good to see you, dude. >> So I got to start with the name. SNYK, what does it mean? >> SNYK, So Now You Know. You know, people it's sneakers sneak. And they tend to use the snick. So it's SNYK or snick. But it is SNYK and it stands for So Now You Know. Kind of a security, so now you know a lot more about your applications than you ever did before. So it's kind of a fitting name. >> So you heard my narrative upfront. Maybe you can add a little color to that and provide some additional background. >> Yeah, I mean, it's a, you know, when you think of the larger trends that are going on in the market, you know, every company is going through this digital transformation. You know, and every CEO, it's the number one priority. We've got to change our business from, you know, financial services, healthcare, insurance company, whatever, are all switching to digital, you know, more of a software company. And with that, more software equals more software risk and cybersecurity continues to be, you know, a major. I think 72% of CEOs worry about cybersecurity as a top issue in protecting companies' data. And so for us, we've been in the software in the security space for the four and a half years. I've been in the security space since, you know, Watchfire 20 years ago. And right now, with more and more, as you said, open source and containers, the challenge of being able to address the cybersecurity issues that have never been more challenging. And so especially when you add the gap between the need for security professionals and what they have. I think it's four million open positions for security people. So you know, with all this added risk, more and more open source, more and more digitization, it's created this opportunity in the market where you're traditional approaches to addressing security don't work today, you know? Like you said, throwing it over the fence and having someone in security, you know, check and make sure and finding all these vulnerabilities, and throw it back to developers to fix is very slow and something at this point is not driving to success. >> So talk a little bit more about what attracted you to SNYK early. I mean, you've been with the company, you're at least involved in the company for a couple years now. What were the trends that you saw, and what was it about SNYK that, you know, led you to become an investor and ultimately, CEO? >> Yeah, so four years involved in the business. So you know, I've always loved the security space. I've been in it for a number, almost 20 years. So I enjoy the space. You know, I've watched it. The founder, Guy Podjarny, one of the founders of SNYK, has been a friend of mine for 16 years from back in the Watchfire days. So we've always stayed connected. I've always worked well together with him. And so when you started, and I was on the board, the first board member of the company, so I could see what was going on, and it was this, you know, changing, kind of the right place at the right time in terms of developer first security. Really taking all the things that are going on in the security space that impacts a developer or can be addressed by the developer, and embedding it into the software into that developer community, in a way that developers use, the tools that they use. So it's a developer-first mindset with security expertise built-in. And so when you look at the market, the number of open source container evolution, you know, it's a huge market opportunity. Then you look at the business momentum, just took off over the past, you know, four years. That it was something that I was getting more and more involved in. And then when Guy asked me to join as the CEO, it was like, "Sure, what took you so long?" (Dave laughing) >> We had Guy on at Node JS Summit. I want to say it was a couple years ago now. And what he was describing is when you package, take the example of Node. When you package code in Node, you bring in all these dependencies, kind of what I was talking about there, but the challenge that he sort of described was really making it seamless as part of the development workflow. It seems like that's unique to SNYK. Maybe you could talk about-- >> Yeah, it is. And you know, we've built it from the ground up. You know, it's very difficult. If it was a security tool for security people, and then say, "Oh, let's adapt it for the developer," that is almost impossible. Why I think we've been so successful from the 400,000 developers in the community using Freemium to paid, was we built it from the ground up for developer, embedded into the application-development life cycle. Into their process, the look and feel, easy for them to use, easy for them to try it, and then we focused on just developer adoption. A great experience, developers will continue to use it and expand with it. And most of our opportunities that we've been successful at, the customers, we have over 400 customers. That had been this try, you know, start it with the community. They used the Freemium, they tried it for their new application, then they tried it for all their new, and then they go back and replace the old. So it was kind of this Freemium, land and expand has been a great way for developers to try it, use it. Does it work, yes, buy more. And that's the way we work. >> We're really happy, Peter, that you came on because you've got some news today that you're choosing to share with us in our Cube community. So it's around financing, bring us up to date. What's the news? >> Yeah so you know, I'd say four months ago, five months ago, we raised a $70 million round from great investors. And that was really led by one of our existing investors, who kind of knew us the best and it was you know, Excel Venture, and then Excel Growth came in and led the $70 million round. And part of that was a few new investors that came in and Stripes, which is you know a very large growth equity investor were part of that $70 million round said you know, preempted it and said, "Look it, we know you don't need the money, but we want to," you know, "We want to preempt. We believe your customer momentum," here we did, you know, five or six really large deals. You know, one, 700, seven million, 7.4 million, one's 3.5 million. So we started getting these bigger deals and we doubled since the $70 million round. And so we said, "Okay, we want to make money not the issue." So they led the next round, which is $150 million round, at a valuation of over a billion. That really allows us now to, with the number of other really top tier, (mumbles) and Tiger and Trend and others, who have been part of watching the space and understand the market. And are really helping us grow this business internationally. So it's an exciting time. So you know, again, we weren't looking to raise. This was something that kind of came to us and you know, when people are that excited about it like we are and they know us the best because they've been part of our board of directors since their round, it allows us to do the things that we want to do faster. >> So $150 million raise this round, brings you up to the 250, is that correct? >> Yes, 250. >> And obviously, an up-round. So congratulations, that's great. >> Yeah, you know, I think a big part of that is you know, we're not, I mean, we've always been very fiscally responsible. I mean, yes we have the money and most of it's still in the bank. We're growing at the pace that we think is right for us and right for the market. You know, we continue to invest product, product, product, is making sure we continue our product-led organization. You know, from that bottoms up, which is something we continue to do. This allows us to accelerate that more aggressively, but also the community, which is a big part of what makes that, you know, when you have a bottoms up, you need to have that community. And we've grown that and we're going to continue to invest aggressively and build in that community. And lastly, go to market. Not only invest, invest aggressively in the North America, but also Europe and APJ, which, you know, a lot of the things we've learned from my Veeam experience, you know how to grow fast, go big or go home. You know, are things that we're going to do but we're going to do it in the right way. >> So the Golden Rule is product and sales, right? >> Yes, you're either building it or selling it. >> Right, that's kind of where you're going to put your money. You know, you talk a lot about people, companies will do IPOs to get seen, but companies today, I mean, even software companies, which is a capital-efficient industry, they raise a lot of dough and they put it towards promotion to compete. What are your thoughts on that? >> You know, we've had, the model is very straightforward. It's bottoms up, you know? Developers, you know, there's 28 million developers in the world, you know? What we want is every one of those 28 million to be using our product. Whether it's free or paid, I want SNYK used in every application-development life cycle. If you're one developer, or you're a sales force with standardized on 12,000 developers, we want them using SNYK. So for us, it's get it in the hands. And that, you know, it's not like-- developers aren't going to look at Super Bowl ads, they're not going to be looking. It's you know, it's finding the ways, like the conference. We bought the DevSecCon, you know, the conference for developer security. Another way to promote kind of our, you know, security for developers and grow that developer community. That's not to say that there isn't a security part. Because, you know, what we do is help security organizations with visibility and finding a much more scalable way that gets them out of the, you know, the slows-down, the speed bump to the moving apps more aggressively into production. And so this is very much about helping security people. A lot of times the budgets do come from security or dev-ops. But it's because of our focus on the developer and the success of fixing, finding, fixing, and auto-remediating that developer environment is what makes us special. >> And it's sounds like a key to your success is you're not asking developer to context switch into a new environment, right? It's part of their existing workflow. >> It has to be, right? Don't change how they do their job, right? I mean, their job is to develop incredible applications that are better than the competitors, get them to market faster than they can, than they've ever been able to do before and faster than the competitor, but do it securely. Our goal is to do the third, but not sacrifice on one and two, right? Help you drive it, help you get your applications to market, help you beat your competition, but do it in a secure fashion. So don't slow them down. >> Well, the other thing I like about you guys is the emphasis is on fixing. It's not just alerting people that there's a problem. I mean, for instance, a company like Red Hat, is that they're going to put a lot of fixes in. But you, of course, have to go implement them. What you're doing is saying, "Hey, we're going to do that for you. Push the button and then we'll do it," right? So that, to me, that's important because it enables automation, it enables scale. >> Exactly, and I think this has been one of the challenges for kind of more of the traditional legacy, is they find a whole bunch of vulnerabilities, right? And we feel as though just that alone, we're the best in the world at. Finding vulnerabilities in applications in open source container. And so the other part of it is, okay, you find all them, but prioritizing what it is that I should fix first? And that's become really big issue because the vulnerabilities, as you can imagine, continue to grow. But focusing on hey, fix this top 10%, then the next, and to the extent you can, auto-fix. Auto-remediate those problems, that's ultimately, we're measured by how many vulnerabilities do we fix, right? I mean, finding them, that's one thing. But fixing them is how we judge a successful customer. And now it's possible. Before, it was like, "Oh, okay, you're just going to show me more things." No, when you talk about Google and Salesforce and Intuit, and all of our customers, they're actually getting far better. They're seeing what they have in terms of their exposure, and they're fixing the problems. And that's ultimately what we're focused on. >> So some of those big whales that you just mentioned, it seems to me that the value proposition for those guys, Peter, is the quality of the code that they can develop and obviously, the time that it takes to do that. But if you think about it more of a traditional enterprise, which I'm sure is part of your (mumbles), they'll tell you, the (mumbles) will tell you our biggest problem is we don't have enough people with the skills. Does this help? >> It absolutely-- >> And how so? >> Yeah, I mean, there's a massive gap in security expertise. And the current approach, the tools, are, you know, like you said at the very beginning, it's I'm doing too late in the process. I need to do it upstream. So you've got to leverage the 28 million developers that are developing the applications. It's the only way to solve the problem of, you know, this application security challenge. We call it Cloud Dative Application Security, which all these applications usually are new apps that they're moving into the Cloud. And so to really fix it, to solve the problem, you got to embed it, make it really easy for developers to leverage SNYK in their whole, we call it, you know, it's that concept of shift left, you know? Our view is that it needs to be embedded within the development process. And that's how you fix the problem. >> And talk about the business model again. You said it's Freemium model, you just talked about a big seven figure deals that you're doing and that starts with a Freemium, and then what? I upgrade to a subscription and then it's a land and expand? Describe that. >> Yeah we call it, it's you know, it's the community. Let's get every developer in a community. 28 million, we want to get into our community. From there, you know, leverage our Freemium, use it. You know, we encourage you to use it. Everybody to use our Freemium. And it's full functionality. It's not restricted in anyway. You can use it. And there's a subset of those that are ready to say, "Look it, I want to use the paid version," which allows me to get more visibility across more developers. So as you get larger organization, you want to leverage the power of kind of a bigger, managing multiple developers, like a lot of, in different teams. And so that kind of gets that shift to that paid. Then it goes into that Freemium, land, expand, we call it explode. Sales force, kind of explode. And then renew. That's been our model. Get in the door, get them using Freemium, we have a great experience, go to paid. And that's usually for an application, then it goes to 10 applications, and then 300 developers and then the way we price is by developer. So the more developers who use, the better your developer adoption, the bigger the ultimate opportunity is for us. >> There's a subscription service right? >> All subscription. >> Okay and then you guys have experts that are identifying vulnerabilities, right? You put them into a database, presumably, and then you sort of operationalize that into your software and your service. >> Yeah, we have 15 people in our security team that do nothing everyday but looking for the next vulnerability. That's our vulnerability database, in a large case, is a lot of our big companies start with the database. Because you think of like Netflix and you think of Facebook, all of these companies have large security organizations that are looking for issues, looking for vulnerabilities. And they're saying, "Well okay, if I can get that feed from you, why do I have my own?" And so a lot of companies start just with the database feed and say, "Look, I'll get rid of mine, and use yours." And then eventually, we'll use this scanning and we'll evolve down the process. But there's no doubt in the market people who use our solution or other solution will say our known the database of known vulnerabilities, is far better than anybody else in the market. >> And who do you sell to, again? Who are the constituencies? Is it sec-ops, is it, you know, software engineering? Is it developers, dev-ops? >> Users are always developers. In some cases dev-ops, or dev-sec. Apps-sec, you're starting to see kind of the world, the developer security becoming bigger. You know, as you get larger, you're definitely security becomes a bigger part of the journey and some of the budget comes from the security teams. Or the risk or dev-ops. But I think if we were to, you know, with the user and some of the influencers from developers, dev-ops, and security are kind of the key people in the equation. >> Is your, you have a lot of experience in the enterprise. How do you see your go to market in this world different, given that it's really a developer constituency that you're targeting? I mean, normally, you'd go out, hire a bunch of expensive sales guys, go to market, is that the model or is it a little different here because of the target? >> Yeah, you know, to be honest, a lot of the momentum that we've had at this point has been inbound. Like most of the opportunities that come in, come to us from the community, from this ground up. And so we have a very large inside sales team that just kind of follows up on the inbound interest. And that's still, you know, 65, 70% of the opportunities that come to us both here and Europe and APJ, are coming from the community inbound. Okay, I'm using 10 licenses of SNYK, you know, I want to get the enterprise version of it. And so that's been how we've grown. Very much of a very cost-effective inside sales. Now, when you get to the Googles and Salesforces and Nordstroms of the world, and they have already 500 licenses us, either paid or free, then we usually have more of a, you know, senior sales person that will be involved in those deals. >> To sort of mine those accounts. But it's really all about driving the efficiency of that inbound, and then at some point driving more inbound and sort of getting that flywheel effect. >> Developer adoption, developer adoption. That's the number one driver for everybody in our company. We have a customer success team, developer adoption. You know, just make the developer successful and good things happen to all the other parts of the organization. >> Okay, so that's a key performance indicator. What are the, let's wrap kind of the milestones and the things that you want to accomplish in the next, let's call it 12 months, 18 months? What should we be watching? >> Yeah, so I mean it continues to be the community, right? The community, recruiting more developers around the globe. We're expanding, you know, APJ's becoming a bigger part. And a lot of it is through just our efforts and just building out this community. We now have 20 people, their sole job is to build out, is to continue to build our developer community. Which is, you know, content, you know, information, how to learn, you know, webinars, all these things that are very separate and apart from the commercial side of the business and the community side of the business. So community adoption is a critical measurement for us, you know, yeah, you look at Freemium adoption. And then, you know, new customers. How are we adding new customers and retaining our existing customers? And you know, we have a 95% retention rate. So it's very sticky because you're getting the data feed, is a daily data feed. So it's like, you know, it's not one that you're going to hook on and then stop at any time soon. So you know, those are the measurements. You look at your community, you look at your Freemium, you look at your customer growth, your retention rates, those are all the things that we measure our business by. >> And your big pockets of brain power here, obviously in Boston, kind of CEO's prerogative, you got a big presence in London, right? And also in Israel, is that correct? >> Yeah, I would say we have four hubs and then we have a lot of remote employees. So, you know, Tel Aviv, where a lot of our security expertise is, in London, a lot of engineering. So between London and Tel Aviv is kind of the security teams, the developers are all in the community is kind of there. You know, Boston, is kind of more go to market side of things, and then we have Ottawa, which is kind of where Watchfire started, so a lot of good security experience there. And then, you know, we've, like a lot of modern companies, we hired the best people wherever we can find them. You know, we have some in Sydney, we've got some all around the world. Especially security, where finding really good security talent is a challenge. And so we're always looking for the best and brightest wherever they are. >> Well, Peter, congratulations on the raise, the new role, really, thank you for coming in and sharing with The Cube community. Really appreciate it. >> Well, it's great to be here. Always enjoy the conversations, especially the Patriots, Red Sox, kind of banter back and forth. It's always good. >> Well, how do you feel about that? >> Which one? >> Well, the Patriots, you know, sort of strange that they're not deep into the playoffs, I mean, for us. But how about the Red Sox now? Is it a team of shame? All my friends who were sort of jealous of Boston sports are saying you should be embarrassed, what are your thoughts? >> It's all about Houston, you know? Alex Cora, was one of the assistant coaches at Houston where all the issues are, I'm not sure those issues apply to Boston, but we'll see, TBD. TBD, I am optimistic as usual. I'm a Boston fan making sure that there isn't any spillover from the Houston world. >> Well we just got our Sox tickets, so you know, hopefully, they'll recover quickly, you know, from this. >> They will, they got to get a coach first. >> Yeah, they got to get a coach first. >> We need something to distract us from the Patriots. >> So you're not ready to attach an asterisk yet to 2018? >> No, no. No, no, no. >> All right, I like the optimism. Maybe you made the right call on Tom Brady. >> Did I? >> Yeah a couple years ago. >> Still since we talked what, two in one. And they won one. >> So they were in two, won one, and he threw for what, 600 yards in the first one so you can't, it wasn't his fault. >> And they'll sign him again, he'll be back. >> Is that your prediction? I hope so. >> I do, I do. >> All right, Peter. Always a pleasure, man. >> Great to see you. >> Thank you so much, and thank you for watching everybody, we'll see you next time. (groovy techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, this is the live CUBE coverage here in Las Vegas for VMworld 2018. Two sets, nine years of coverage, this is our ninth year. Lot of games changed, we've seen the movie play over and over again. Infrastructure's supposed to be dead, it never goes away. Storage is supposed to be dead, never goes away. Data protection, recovery, never going away. It's only getting better, the cloud is here. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Next guest, Peter McKay, Co-CEO and President of Veeam. Big party, tonight. Massive success story in the industry, year over year. They kind of kept it quiet, I don't know why, but then the past two years the numbers started to come out. >> Yeah. >> The chart is up and to the right, competition is going down, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Where's the growth coming from, what's the success? >> You know, I mean, we've been on a trajectory, as you guys know, for many years. Because we're not public, because we're not looking to go public any time soon, we never published the numbers. But, when we realized: look we got a lot of success going, the momentum's going, we think people should know what's happening, especially our customers who invested. So, we've just continued to execute really well on a multi-segmented approach from the large enterprise, the medium-mid-market, and the SMV. All of those three segments are growing double digits. You know, different value prop, different message, different solution in each one. Kind of the way we package. But they're all going really well. Europe, Americas, and now APJ is growing faster than any other region. >> Well, it's interesting, you said this morning, was people have the perception you guys were SMB and you said, oh, we just went after the-- >> The virtual buyer. >> The VMware guys, the virtual buyer. I think you said about a third of your business is small, about a third is commercial, and about a third is what? >> A third is the breakdown of our revenue. It is true that we didn't focus on a partiular market. We focused on whoever bought Vsphere should buy Veeam. And so whoever sold it, whatever the channel partner sold it we wanted them to sell Veeam. Whoever bought it, we wanted them to buy Veeam. It wasn't that complex, it was fairly straightforward. Just execute on following wherever VMware went, we went. We became the number one backup vendor, virtual backup. Number one VMware backup, now we added Hyper-V, and now we're in a crop-o-lis with Nutanix, which is the latest. >> Is the type of buyer now changing as you sort of enter some of these new markets, go more deeper into the larger enterprises? >> Yeah, it's gotten a lot more complicated, today. You remember we bought this company N2WS, which is really interesting. It's native backup for AWS. >> Right. >> And that was fantastic. We started as an investment, we bought it, and this business just keeps doubling and doubling. And really what it taught us when we had an event that we would go to, all the people, our customers were going to the booth, and they didn't know who Veeam was. So we we're like, wait a minute, you have Veeam in your business, well we didn't know that. So they were totally different buyers. They were looking to back up for the cloud offering than traditional backup or even your virtual backup. And so it really expanded an opportunity that we never knew. Hey, this is a whole group of people we weren't talking to. So that has expanded, you've got that group. You know, your traditional backup buyers, your virtual. But now it's line of business, it's much more complicated than ever before. >> So you're sharing some numbers. You mind sharing how many customers you have, the kind of renewals and what the booking numbers look like? >> Yeah, we ended the year at 300, we passed 300,000 customers and we're up to what, 320 or so, now. We added about 133, on average over the last two years, 133 per day, 4,000 a month. >> Customers? >> Customers. >> New Customers. >> New customers. That has been our kind of trajectory. It all goes back to, we have a 73 Net Promoter score, we do a really good job making our customers successful, making it easy to buy, easy to deploy, easy to manage, and we constantly just stay ahead in the roadmap, in what we're doing, and you know, it's-- >> Nice business. >> It's not that complex. >> What's the booking, what's the booking? >> The last year we ended at 827 on our goal of 766, so we blew away our goal last year. This year we put a stretch goal, get to a billion, we're well on our way to do that. I think there's only 34 companies that have got there, got over a billion, but that's our goal. >> And as a Co-CEO, one of your jobs is to sort of identify opportunities for TAM expansion, you've done that. Now, you've up-leveled the messaging big-time. So that's been great, to see that progress. And then, talk about the TAM. People think, okay, back up, tiny little five, six, seven billion dollar market. But your TAM is much larger, talk about your market. >> So we call what we're doing intelligent data management, so data management, managing your data, protecting your data, but doing it in an intelligent way, right? Not, you know, reactive, more proactive, more from policy based to behavior based. So that message is really resonating in the market. And so, I think there's a lot of, when we looked at the space, backup and recovery is really just one piece of it. There's email backup, right? Office 365, SAS applications, more and more eDiscovery, there's endpoint backup. So when we look at that and then back up in the cloud from a cloud infrastructure, when you add up all of that addressable market, it's about a 39, just, the high $30s billion market opportunity growing at almost 10%. So, some of that we'll do organically, we'll build ourselves, some of which we'll buy like N2WS, and some of it we'll just partner where it makes sense to do that, but that's the market we're going after intelligent data management. >> How are you using machine intelligence and leveraging that to go after intelligent data management? >> Well, you think of, we call it five stages of intelligent data management, so there's a journey that people go from backup to aggregation of all the data, to visibility, orchestration, and automation. When you get to orchestration and automation, it's around doing things smarter and getting more insight from what you've been doing in the past, like learning how you've been able to managing your backup to the cloud, from the cloud, between clouds, but now when you start adding things like security, like hey, there's a ransomware that you found, find a clean backup or restore to a better version of your data to the environment. Or a weather pattern, something's happened and back up to a different location versus. So you can start feeding in external, different third party data into our machine that allows us to be able to protect and manage your data far better. So, that's a huge opportunity. >> I mean, this is a very competitive space, you've been as a company, so successful, while others are declining or flattening out. Why, what specifically is the driver? Is it simplicity, was it just the product itself? I mean, it's hard to break into this market and kind of have the numbers you guys have. >> Yeah, I've been amazed early on. I mean, it is, the product is that good. We used to have a tagline that it just works, and that came from our customers. Veeam: it just works, and it does. I mean, I would say first and foremost, the technology is that good. I love to say it was sales, the execution, and everything else, but you know it is the product. >> Easy to sell a product that's just good. >> It makes it so much easier when the product is that good. >> So, that, I think the way we approach the ecosystem, it's a channel model, it's a very leveraged model, we added alliances into the mix, so we have, we just announced our Cisco Hyperflex. So Hyperflex, we're the first and only solution, intelligent data management solution, that is bundled with Cisco Hyperflex, that we announced, today. But, Cisco can now resell as one skew, HP can now sell as one bundled skew, NetApp can sell as one bundled skew, and we've got others that are coming. We've been hardware and software, hardware agnostic, cloud agnostic. And when other companies like Commvault and Veritas and Dell all have an appliance solution, Cohesity, Ruberik, and others, it's really driven the rest of the ecosystem to the company that has been Switzerland of all of it, because a lot of these companies have hardware that they already have. So we leverage, hey, we'll work with what you have, and you know we're going to work with what you're going to have, because we're not locking you into any hardware. >> That's what you always down. And it's been, so good product, easy-- >> Common sense approach. >> Common sense, and then focus. We haven't tried to do more than what we're, I mean, we want to be best in the world, started with virtual, cloud was the next, physical we added physical component that we were missing in. So virtual, physical, and cloud. Single pane of glass, orchestration, automation. It's not that hard. >> On the product side, as you got a couple minutes left. I want to get your thoughts on the growth strategy. Obviously, machine learning, if you're doing intelligent data, you've got to be using ML and AI, it's going to be core to the product. How is that looking, what's the story there? >> You know it's almost vertical dependent, right? Because what we're finding is in certain verticals, the ecosystem is different, and how we learn from, a lot of the channel partners are driving us in this direction, alliance partners are driving us to this direction, and moving from this kind of reactive mode to proactive mode. And so that's kind of opening up a broader ecosystem for us on how do we leverage more of the knowledge that's outside of our world and into making what we do in the managing of data, because, you know, the accumulation of data, as you guys know, it's doubling every two years, right? It's everywhere, data is all at endpoints and edge devices, it's coming from all over the place, and it's far more critical. And so, we're kind of in the middle of all that. And so now, how do we better manage that data for you, and adding more machine learning into that is critical. >> Well, thanks for taking the time to stop by theCUBE, congratulations on your success, just works, your product excellence, it's pretty nice to have that. Lot of companies don't have that luxury. Congratulations and thanks for coming by. >> Thanks, John. >> Peter McKay here on theCUBE, Veeam, very popular product in the VMware ecosystem, of course they run one of the best parties here, some say the best. >> Tonight. >> We'll be checking out, tonight. Peter, thanks for coming on. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. (digital music)

>> Announcer: Live from Chicago, Illinois, it's theCUBE! Covering VeeamON 2018. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to the Windy City, everybody, you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. This is day two coverage of VeeamON 2018. I'm Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman, my cohost. Peter McKay is here, he's the co-CEO of Veeam. Peter, great to see you again, >> Great to be here David, Stu. >> Thanks so much for making some time. Lovin' the show, we're watching the evolution of Veeam. You know, go from scrappy fighter, now movin' up the stack. We know from our research that data protection and orchestration are moving up the list on CXO priorities. You were brought in to really uplevel, top-level the company's messaging, the branding, the talent. How you feelin'? >> I'm feeling good, I think this was a major step, right. You know, a lot of work going in to just really understanding the market, for me at least. Coming out of VMware and coming into an availability market. So I became a student of the space, talking to a lot of customers, talking to a lot of partners, really pulling together what that business message is, versus a feature-function message. What we were doing to actually help drive the business, you know, especially now when more and more data is being accumulated, more and more companies are digitizing their organization. And for us, we're kind of the ones that keep that up and running. I think it was important for us to make sure that message gets out, to when we deliver it in the market, that people think of us as that strategic solution for their mission critical, always-on, which we call hyper-availability, for the enterprise. Any app, any data, any time. >> Very partner focused event, here. You can't walk anywhere without bumping into a partner. When, you were at VMware for a number of years, and VMware was famous for every dollar spent on a VMware, some number, $15, $17 was spent on the ecosystem. So that was sort of, probably ingrained, in the ethos of your career, right? >> Yeah, and you know, when coming here you recognize there was a lot of great discussions, a lot of good technology integration with, you know, companies like Cisco and HP and NetApp and others. But there wasn't this follow-on go-to market. Like, how can we make it easier for our customers? How can we make it easier for our customers to buy a combined solution versus a technology? And so to do that well, we recognized early that we had to uplevel the relationships we're having with Pure and Nutanix and all these other companies that were really getting in front of these enterprise and mid-market companies, but with multiple tracks. And we felt that if we can do more together with them, that we would have, the customers would have a better experience. And so, we started going down that path, we started to do things more together. Merging that value proposition together with these companies. And then merging our sales efforts together. It brought about a tremendous impact on just the customer success, their experience in leveraging our technology. And this is just kind of the start of it, because I think there's a lot more to come, that on the partner side that I think is going to be, you know that gets us to that two billion, three billion mark. >> Yeah, so I wanted to touch on that so, that combined with the expansion of your product portfolio, the move into cloud and multi-cloud and orchestration expands your TAM significantly. Talk about some of the numbers. Over $800 million in bookings-- >> 827, yes. >> 30 plus percent growth, >> 36. >> 36% growth. >> But who's countin'? (laughs) >> Oh that's good, and so, now, and of course currency as a Swiss based company, let me get this right, currency now is somewhat of a headwind for you guys, right? So you're blowing through that, or no, do you guys hedge or how do you handle it? >> Nope, we're US dollars, everything is US dollars. Everything is US dollars. >> So that's a tailwind then for you guys? >> That is, it is, you know, lookit. We've always operated as a long-term software company. A long term sustainable, we don't have the quarterly, we're not public, right? So we don't have to hit targets in earnings along, and you know currency's going to go up and down at various times. Some days, some times, you're going to have the benefits, the tailwinds and headwinds. So, for us, we just continue to make the right decisions based off of where we see what's the best interests of our customers, what's the best interests of our partners, and then let the dust settle. >> But you do pay attention to the months and the quarters internally? >> We do, yes, well in large part because our ecosystem does, right? When you're selling with Cisco you need to know when their quarter ends, and when their year ends, right? Or Nutanix, because they're all motivated by those quarters. And I've always been in, for the most part, public companies that had that quarter. So we still operate that way, but the way we make decisions is based on what's the long-term best interests of our customers. >> And there's not that external 90-day shot clock, Stu, as we talked about. >> No, yeah, no. Yeah, so Peter one of the things that's really interesting to look at at your company, you're at 133 customers a day. That's 10,000 a quarter. Very different when you talk about the enterprise, it's not just how many customers, but there's, at least traditionally been more, it's more belly-to-belly. You have to be deeper engaged. You've got this partner? Bring us inside a little bit, some of the challengers there are about going from the scale and simplicity that built Veeam, to deeper in to these enterprises. >> That's a really good question, and you know there is two elements of that. The first one is first, do no harm. Your SNB business is cranking double digits, your mid-market is cranking double digits, and invest heavily in this massive opportunity we have in front of us in the enterprise. But make no mistake, that's a major effort that we've embarked on two and a half, three years ago. Our technology, as you mentioned it, is broadening. Our messaging is upleveled. Our focused marketing efforts are very much targeted to very specific customers. Our support is different, I mean everything we do. The ecosystem is different to go into that enterprise space. So it's a massive investment that we're doing around the globe, to get much closer to those companies. But, we're not losing what made us great. Which, get in the door, just get in the door to any of these companies. You're going in, you're going to Coca-Cola, just get in the door and then do a really good job and expand from there, which is really what we've been doing since the beginning. >> On that, you know I heard like, AIX support is coming. All the enterprises like, well but I have this other application that you're not certified. You go down the SAP HANA route, and Oracle and everything else, you can just get bogged down in so much red tape. >> And that's changing, it used to be that we're, not used to be we are the number one VMware backup. We're the number one virtual backup. And we're the best in the world at virtual. But, and Ratmir would always say, we're just going to do virtual, virtual. Well in the enterprise, that can't be, right? You need to be, obviously virtual, cloud, 'cause every conversation you're having is multi-cloud, right? And you need physical, because there's 10, 15, 20% of all these enterprises that are going to stay physical. And so for us, we needed to do that. Now we've done, now we can do virtual, physical, and cloud for our enterprise customer, for everybody, but we see it more in the enterprise. >> When Veeam first started, it saw an opportunity to help with the virtualization problem. Backup had to change with virtualization. Veeam, right place, right time, right product and right attitude, boom. What's more straightforward than what's going on now, what's happening now, and I wonder if you could comment, from our perspective is, there's a dichotomy between what the businesses expect in terms of the levels of data protection, the levels of orchestration and automation that exist, and what IT can deliver. And it seems like Veeam is trying to fill that gap. Which says a couple things, it's a jump ball, to use the basketball analogy, which we'll be talking about later. And the second thing is that there's a lot of potential for customer churn. Which is good news for you guys. >> First off, there's a lot of churn going on. Anybody that bought a solution two, three, four, five, 10 years down the road, the game has changed, right? We kind of track three things. One, it's all about the data, right, and the data today is becoming much more critical for businesses, right? Our business, every business, it's all making better decisions with more critical data and at the right time. The second is it's massive data growth. It's exponential, it's, what did they say? 2x every, every, 10x every five years? And so we're seeing this massive increase in growth of data that if you use the same methods you used in the past, it's really expensive and really difficult to be able to manage that and keep it running and available. And the last is sprawl, it's everywhere. I mean data is on devices, from thermostats to automobiles to everywhere. And so, used to have it sitting in an easy data center, and now the data is everywhere. And so, you have the criticality of data, you have the massive growth in data, and you have a massive sprawl of data. And what we believe is we want to be that hyper-availability solution. That we're protecting that data, we're helping you manage that data, we're helping you orchestrate that data, and be able to protect it for companies who need it in real time because it's becoming so critical today. >> The other change that we would observe, is you're really kind of going from what was a product company, to a platform company. You showed that platform slide. Talk about the importance of platform in the enterprise to sustain growth. >> Yeah, I think there's, in the enterprise obviously it's more complicated. And you know, because of the sprawl, because of all the things I mentioned, it needs a bigger, broader solution that can be able to handle backup, backup and recovery, replication, failover. You need to be able to have a single pane of glass, whether it's in the cloud or on premise. You need to be able to manage and orchestrate workloads, from on premise, I want to put it in Azure, or I want to put it in Service Provider, and so the ability to be able to automate and orchestrate that movement requires a platform to be able to do that. With us, but also the ecosystem, right? I mean do it with the hardware providers, people who have a component for security, to make sure that if we detect ransomware, to kick off a backup, a clean backup. And so, this orchestration and automation is going to be a critical part of that platform. >> Peter, I wonder if we could step away from the technology for a second, talk a little bit about culture. We've been noting you come on board, Veeam's always had a good team, but been bringing on some key pieces, especially help focused on the enterprise. It's a challenge for a lot of companies to get into that space. Why is Veeam positioned well, talk to us about your methodology on how you bring these type of people in. >> We have, we've grown a thousand people over the last 12 months and that's on top of what we did the year before, and we're probably going to add another seven, eight, a thousand people this year. And the key is to do two things. One, we're investing heavily in our team, today, right? Because we're growing at 36% year over year, you're doubling almost every three years, less than three years. So you need to have that investment in the existing team, married with skillsets from outside, and bring in the best talent I can get to blend with that culture. So marry the culture of old with the culture of new, and that's, you know we look for hungry, humble, and smart. People who fit that description, that's what we look for, that's what we check for when we're recruiting top talent, whether an executive or you know, a front line sales rep or customer support. >> So, we only got a couple minutes, I got a question. If you were Robert Kraft, would you have traded Tom Brady? >> Oh, you saved that question! (laughs) >> What do you think? We're going to chime in, Stu and I have an opinion. >> If I was Robert Kraft, no, I would not have traded Tom Brady, Tom Brady has earned the right to plan his future with the Patriots. I think this needs to be a happy ending for Tom Brady, and I think it would be a happy ending for Robert Kraft, I would have proactively figured out how to handle Garoppolo far better than they did, I thought they handled that poorly, but no I would not have traded Tom Brady. >> So you mean, you would have wanted to get more for Garoppolo? >> Definitely. >> Yeah obviously, right, okay. >> If you were going to get rid of him, you should have done it sooner, or you should have done it, you should have figured out, how you'd be able to do it later. >> And got more value. Okay, so you're on the side that basically, Brady should be allowed to cash his chit for all these years taking haircuts, okay. (all chattering) >> Most importantly, performance. There's nobody who performed better. >> And Dave, Brady's performance, it's not like he's fallen off a cliff or he's some old man. >> He was MVP! >> Come on Dave, didn't you hear the note today? The reason Tom Brady's staying in there, is he hasn't gotten a thousand yards of rushing yet. I think he's 36 yards off, you know, >> That could take another three more years! >> He's way more mobile now than he was 10 years ago. >> Oh, so you guys are both optimists for the coming year? >> Oh, yeah. Well you know-- >> As long as we don't play the NFC East in the Super Bowl, we're okay. (speaking quietly) >> Okay, how about the Celts? Up two-zip, LeBron really, he showed up in the first quarter last night. I know you couldn't watch the game, because you were hosting a bunch of different events, but do you think LeBron's going to come back at home, a little home cooking? You know, can the Celts make it to the finals? >> I think Brad Stevens has exposed the Cleveland Cavaliers for the team that they are. Which is LeBron and a bunch of other guys. And so I think, yes LeBron's going to have, I mean he had 45 points, so it's like we're waiting for him to break out, hit 45 points and they still lost. So I'm not so sure you're going to see that massive resurgence, I think they'll get one game in Cleveland, I think the Celts will have one game, they'll win one game in Cleveland. >> I mean, I think you're right, I think Brad Stevens has exposed the supporting cast. Now unfortunately, if the Celtics make it that far, the Warriors aren't going to be exposed, 'cause their supporting cast is pretty strong. But it'll be great to get there, to compete. >> How about getting there, with your two top players are out. >> And what do you think, Gordon Hayward comes off the bench next year, he's your sixth man, I mean wow. >> Yeah, who do you trade to get even, and what would you trade for, to make the team better? I mean it's already in great shape. >> It's good to be a Boston sports fan isn't it? >> Peter: It's great to be a Boston sports fan. >> Peter thanks so much for coming to theCUBE, always a pleasure seeing you. >> Dave, Stuart, good to see you. >> Alright, keep right there, everybody, we'll be back with our next guest. VeeamON 2018, from Chicago, you're watching theCUBE.

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from New Orleans, Louisiana, it's theCUBE! Covering .NEXT conference, 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> We're here in the big easy in New Orleans, and last year, right at this time, it was VeeamON. Happy to have theCUBE there and, right now we're at the Nutanix .NEXT conference, but back with us, the week before his conference, VeeamON, Peter McKay, President and co-CEO of Veeam. Peter, great to see you again. Thanks for joining us. >> Great to be here Stu. It's always great to be in front. >> Alright, a little bit less bright green, than your show, but, your second time at this show. Give us compare and contrast, you know between the Nutanix show and yours. >> It's great to see the ecosystem, that is definitely expanding. It's great for us because a lot of our, the relationships we've had with Nutanix has really evolved over the past year, and so part of that is the Nutanix ecosystem that we get together with and have a lot of great discussions over the two and a half days. So it's been much more impactful, this year than last, but a lot of it comes from a lot tighter in the partnership with Nutanix as well. >> Sure, and that's something Keith and I heard from the user base, it's, their ask is, you know, broaden and grow and mature that ecosystem. It was last year at the show that you made the announcement of AHV coming, and now it's their yeah, bring us inside your customers, what are you hearing from them? Why are they using it? And why Veeam, you got a nice mention on the keynote stage this morning. >> No it was, it's good. I mean, the most important was the customers were asking for tighter integration between Veeam and Nutanix. And then, you know, this started probably two years ago, and (mumbles) came to me and said, "Well we got to make a big bet together", and so, you know I remember, we were in dinner, in New York City, he said, "You got to make a big bet on us, and I'll make big bet on you", and that kind of sparked the partnership that we had and now, AHV was another one, and we got two or three more coming, down the road, that is pretty exciting as well as we expand, but AHV is obviously an important component that the Nutanix and Veeam customers have been asking for. >> Yeah, any feedback from the customers as to why they're sliding that over to AHV, most of them, you know, VM Ware customers, most customers we talked to still have a mix, but what are some of those drivers that are pushing them in that direction? >> You know I think it's a lot of the workloads, are kind of different, that's kind of conducive, I think a lot of people have tried AHV early on, a year ago or so, when it was still you know, not as mature as it is. I've had a number of customers that came up and have used it for another, for a year, year and a half, or so, and now it's starting to expand, so I think they're getting more comfortable leveraging AHV and that's what's driving a lot of those customers to say, "Okay, I want to leverage Veeam to do that, to work together with that". So it's definitely had much more broad adoption than it's had a year ago. >> So Peter, let's see if we can tease out some of these future innovations between you and Nutanix, a little bit. Taking a broader look, back-up, super mature market, but there's a awful lot of excitement, there's rumors from MNA, there's plenty of investment money going around, and not what I would call back-up, not even what I would call data protection, but I'm labeling this metadata infrastructure. Why is this market segment so important and so critical to customers in this day of digital transformation? >> Keith that's a great question, and a lot of it has to do with just the massive expansion of data, right? I mean data is just becoming more critical, it's growing at an exponential rate, it is sprawling to all end points, the edge in IOT, it's becoming a major issue. So just the sheer volume, the growth and criticality of data is changing. And then I think it's this, as companies are moving kind of this digital transformation moving more digital, the need for it to be always on has become like a must have. So, before it was like, you know, hey I just need to back it up, and you know, then it was okay now I got to recover fast, now it's about, I can never go down. Or if I do, I got to come back up fast. And so that's changed the dynamic for most of these companies that, I can't go down, the cost of it, and you had on the keynote today when they said, "Look at it, if I go down it's $750,000 a week when it goes down for one minute". So it's a lot of money, it's real dollars, that now companies are looking and saying, "I got to do something about it, I have to be always on", that's what we call availability, now hyper availability. That market is changing, and that's why you see a lot of investment going in. >> So let's talk about that this critical relationship that you're building with the Nutanix folks, how are you guys offering a differentiated experience and value to this new era of data? >> Yeah I think you know, when you look at the success that Nutanix has had, the work, the use cases, a lot of them are similar in that, you know, data is a big part of kind of their future, and part of that is this data, refreshing of the data centers that companies are kind of migrating to new and upgraded data center, I mean a lot of where our businesses come from is that updated, the data center refreshes that all these companies are doing, and a lot of them are moving off of legacy hardware, legacy back-up and protection solutions, that are moving to more kind of current day solutions, which are Nutanix and Veeam. And so, we found that we're going into the same companies, having the same conversations, and we realized that, why aren't we doing more together to do it? And so, what you'll see going forward is a lot more tighter integration between the technologies, and a lot more alignment on the use cases that were going, VDI is you know, back-up as a service, DR as a service, their cloud scenarios, their cloud offering, is also going to be a big part of our future as well. >> So let's talk about cloud in general. What's the importance to your customers in shared experience, we've heard a lot from Nutanix this past week about cloud, whether (mumbles), calm, but their opinionated view of cloud, what's the Veeam Nutanix cloud story? >> I think you know, as theory said in the keynote today, it was this, the hybrid cloud. The multi-cloud story. In every company that we go in you have to go in and talk a multi-cloud story. Especially when you're backing up or DR, you know, the cloud is a great vehicle, it's a great way to kind of get started in the cloud, and so in every conversation we have, whether you're a large company, or medium or small, the cloud is always a component in that discussion. And Nutanix is the, when you hear the story, the Veeam value proposition and the Nutanix value proposition, relative to the cloud, they're similar messages. And so, we believe that companies who want to back-up in the cloud, back-up from the cloud, or back-up between the cloud, is critical for our customers. And, we said, a year, two years ago, that this is going to be a major part of our success going forward, and we've invested a lot in it. >> Yeah, Peter, it's interesting, 'cause on the one hand, there's some similarities between the Nutanix message and the Veeam, multi-cloud world, going to play across them, the other thing, Nutanix is trying to position themselves as one of the platform players. Veeam's got a long partnership with VM Ware, last year you know, real broad as to what you do to Microsoft, how do you grade Nutanix, how they're a good partner but, you know, how are they doing in trying to be a platform a la a VM Ware, Microsoft, or even an Amazon? >> I mean, VM Ware's a phenomenal partner of ours, as you know, we built our business on the backs of VM Ware and, leveraging that ecosystem and, I think, look, Nutanix is doing a great job of driving what customer needs. Focusing on customer success, and expanding that portfolio to the needs and what the customers are asking for. And you know, that's kind of what we've done as well, and so we've aligned to focus on what the customers need to be successful. And, you know, things of simplicity you know, good ROI flexibility, agility, all the things that I think are what customers need, and what we've been positioned, what we've been talking to our customers about for, you know, seven, eight years now. So, I think the message is aligned, but I think they're doing a really good job of kind of laying out that platform, in a way that it's a journey, it's not all here today, but this is where we're going, and here's how you could follow. So, it makes you the easier to partner because you kind of know what's coming and where our roadmaps align. >> So, sounds aligned, there's always the concern, VM Ware started overlapping with the back-up enders a few years ago, but still a strong partnership, there's always that co-oppotition angle, how do you address that? >> I mean, look it, I mean that's kind of the world we live in, right? I mean there's going to be, at times there's different conversations we're having every day, with companies that we, on one hand we compete with, you know, think Dell EMC, right, and companies that you can partner with, which is also Dell and EMC. I mean, HP, Cisco, Nenapp, very strong partners of ours, and sometimes it makes sense for us to work together, and sometimes it doesn't. Or it makes sense for us to work with Nutanix versus you know, Microsoft or someone else so, you know, we try to be the best partner that we can, we've been able to navigate this world that's very, you know, a lot of overlapping technologies. And so, you know, we became, you know, kind of hardware agnostic, cloud agnostic, and that's served us well over the 11 years, and you know, I think it's getting more challenging, I think we're definitely going deeper with fewer, so that'll change over the next year or two. Where we're going to go deeper with a number of companies because, you know, that's what our customers are asking for, you know, yes I get that, but I need to go deeper in these certain technologies. >> Yeah, I'm a technologist, so I'm going to ask the question, what areas of technology are they asking for specifically? I mean back-up is, again, when you look at back-up, can I store it, can I restore it, can I restore it granually, and then we start to get into kind of where we differentiate between the, okay, we need to go look at a Veeam, or a different back-up solution, beyond what vendors give us, where's those deep integrations or deep capabilities that customers have asked for, as you've been at the show this week? >> Yeah, it's, you know every vendor has their kind of differentiation, you know? For us, we've always focused along you know the recovery time, right? That was always kind of the fastest recovery time of anybody, so we always, that's where we kind of built on our business on this availability, up and running all the time. We also have kept it simple. You know, we haven't, we try to make easy to use, easy to run, easy to manage, easy to operate, and so that has been kind of the cornerstone of Veeam since the beginning, and we try to make sure the ROI was you know fast time to value, right? And so, that continues to be our cornerstone. When we look at partnerships with the Nutanix and others, it is, how do we leverage those value prompts when there's every customer is asking for keep it simple, how do you get to value faster, and the more you can integrate with Nutanix, and the easier it is that I can get one solution, bundled together, in my various locations, and so we've been able to do that with Nutanix and others, and it's exactly what the customers have been asking for. >> Peter, give us some of the highlights of the Veeam presence here at the show. You were telling us, the sessions were overflowing, nice big booth here. >> Yeah no we're a platinum sponsor, and you know, as I said, an important partnership. Yeah, we have our event that's here, that's one of the shows that's I think max capacity is 500, it's overflowed, so that's a good sign, but a lot of interest. You know, it's good, 'cause I actually went to the booth and hung out at the, and answered a lot of questions for a couple hours last night and, just the number of customers that, most know Veeam, but they're asking for, okay AHV, I want it, where's it coming? What's next, what's next? And so, there's a lot of interest here. This has been a very good show for us, in not just getting customer feedback, or prospects and interest, but also in the partner ecosystem, on how they want to leverage the Veeam Nutanix relationship. So, as well as Executive meetings that we have, which is always a good. >> Yeah, I can attest to you, I saw you with the customers in the booth here, good to have a little warm up, next week I don't think you're going to have a lot of time to be sitting in the booth so, Peter McKay, always a pleasure to catch up with you, we look forward to seeing you and the team next week in Chicago for VeeamON. >> Same here. >> Make sure to check out thecube.net for of course, all the shows we're at, all the ones we're going to be at, and the thousands of interviews that we've done over the years. For Keith Townsend, I'm Stu Miniman, back with lots more here, thanks for watching theCUBE. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering VMworld 2017. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partner. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE. Live from VMworld 2017 day one. I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host, Dave Vellante. Very excited to be joined by our next guest. CUBE alumni, Peter McKay, President and co-CEO of Veeam. Welcome to theCUBE, welcome back. >> Great to be here, thanks Lisa. >> Good to see you again. >> Good to see you. Fellow Bostonian. >> Dave: Yeah, alright. Go Sox! >> Good to be here. >> Dave: It's not looking so good right now. >> Aah, and it only matters how it ends. >> That's true. Yep. Until October, it's not over 'til it's over. >> Peter: Not over until it's over. >> So, some good news. You guys were just named a leader in the 2017 Gartner Magic Quadrant >> Peter: Yes, we were. >> for Backup and Recovery. What is next generation availability for, the enterprise has to always be on, 24/7? >> Yeah, you know it's a category. We call it availability. And now, kind of the market has adopted this availability label term. And it's really around any application, any file, any service. Access to your data at any time. So, it's always on. Always available. Seven by 24, 365. And more and more companies need to be always on. And so it's not, it used to be it's just about back up, back up, and you can back up a hundred times, but it's about the recovery. The time to actually get back up. And so, that's becoming a bigger driver for a lot of companies. They need to be always on. So, this category of availability is what we focus on. Everybody at Veeam, wakes up every morning thinking about how we can help our customers stay up and running and always on. Always available. >> From a buyer's perspective, are you seeing this elevated to the level of the C-Suite or are you still talking more with some of the guys and gals in IT or at lines of business? >> So, I would say, if you asked me two years ago, it was definitely IT-centric. More and more, as you start to see, British Airways, I mean, almost everyday you're seeing another outage. Major outage of a service or access to data or Australian Internal Revenue Service equivalent being down for days. It's starting to be a bigger issue and CIOs, CEOs. It's a major focus here, and not just for the cost of revenue, but also just the brand, associated with it being down. And with new buyers, these new millenniums and people always on access to devices. You know, if you have a shoddy service, they're going to go elsewhere. And so, more and more companies are focused on that being a differentiator for their business and that's why it's elevating up the C-Suite. >> I've personally been, sort of, getting more knowledge about Veeam in the past six or seven months. We had you guys on at HP Discover in London. And then of, course, we did Veeam On. You were at Pure Show. You were at the Nutanix show. >> Nutanix show Yeah. >> The HP in Vegas. And I just recently ... >> Peter: So, it's been more than four. >> Yeah. And I just recently presented to your alliance team back in Boston. So kind of getting the feel for what's going on here. >> You're going to be an expert at Veeam. >> I am starting to. So, one of the things I'm noticing is you guys are moving up market, getting into the enterprise. Talking a little more CIO, CXO language. So, I want to challenge you on something, Peter. And you've really brought in a lot of that new branding and messaging. A lot of people talk about digital transformation. And to us digital transformation is all about how well you leverage data. So, in your mind, is that a viable sort of definition, if you will? And how is Veeam helping its customers particularly upmarket leveraged data? >> Well, more and more companies are leveraging data on almost every aspect of their business. To drive new markets. To drive new products to market. And so the importance of data in this digital transformation, they call it the currency of digital transformation. The more that data is growing in its importance, the more the need for accessing that data and to have that data always available for you to make faster, quicker decisions is only growing. Not only is it the size of data, but it's the ability to access it at all times, in any location. On premise, off premise. Is becoming more and more because of the importance of data, right?. So the applications need to have access to it. Decisions. I mean, I look at our business. More and more of what I do everyday is off of data we're accumulating and how we drive our business. How people are buying. How we can market our products better. So if we're just an example of what we're seeing, not just in the enterprise, but in that medium sized business as well, where data is becoming a crucial differentiator. And one of the leading movements. The kind of drivers of digital transformation. >> I was going to ask, is that the underpinning of your enterprise portion? What you're saying is, not just the enterprise, it's the small businesses as well. >> Peter: Yeah. >> It really was just simplicity, which was the attractiveness to Veeam historically. >> Peter: Yeah. >> You're saying that's changing and it's becoming a data centricity. >> It is. I think as the importance of data. But it's not just the accumulation of data and the access of data, but it's also regulatory and security is also driving that, right? You need to, you know, with regulation, DDPR in Europe is becoming a bigger issue, right? And so, how are we managing that data? What are we doing? Are we in compliance or not with that data? Making sure that data is secure and you can back up, if there's ransomware. So, you look at a lot. As you accumulate this personal, identifiable information on people and your customers. The protecting of that data. The making sure that that's always available and you're in compliance. It's just growing in importance. Which has been a major driver for the growth of our business over the past couple years. >> Could you talk about that growth? What kind of metrics? You know you're a private company, but what kind of metrics can you share with us about recent growth, recent quarters? >> Yeah. So we're growing at about 35% year over year. So that's been kind of consistent over the past two, three years. We have 256,000 customers. We're adding about 4,000 customers a month. Small, medium and now, larger companies. The growth continues to drive. All of that is through our channel organization. Our alliance partners that we've continued to add. Steady, up and to the right has been our business. >> Well you've said, your stake in the ground is a billion, right? >> A billion. We're on track. Our goal is 800 this year. A billion next year. And 1.2, 1.5 in 2020. We're well on our way. >> So, speaking of partners, you were a VMware guy for a while? >> Peter: Yes, I was. >> We were talking about that. And you've been with Veeam for about a year or so? >> Peter: Year and a half. >> Tell us about, what was, the theme that we've had for the last couple of hours is that data protection, backup and recovery is a hot topic. It's something that you've probably seen evolve over time. Tell us about some of your thoughts on some of the announcements today that VMware has made regarding helping customers migrate to the cloud around data protection. What are some of the things that excite you about working with VMware? >> Well, I think most companies have a hybrid strategy in that medium. Definitely small is moving to either buying applications in the cloud or moving more off premise. That's in the S and B market. Anything above that, it's a hybrid story. There'll always be an on premise. There'll always be kind of a cloud component. And we're seeing a multi-cloud component. And so the announcement on VMware cloud on AWS is important. We're the only solution that is ready to go from a backup recovery. From availability perspective. VMware is an incredibly important partner for us. Announcements around anything data protection is critical because we built our business on the back of VMware's virtualization and vSphere. So whenever you talk virtualization and data, that's Veeam. But also security in moving, allowing that flexibility of moving from off premise to cloud solutions. That's music to our ears. That's a big part of what excites me about the VMworld in 2017. >> I'd love to get your thoughts on the market. I mean, it's on fire. VMware is booming. The data center is smoking hot. If you look back. Take your VMware experiences, look back two years ago. VMware as a company was under fire. Its license revenue was down 1% to flat. Now it's growing. 13% I guess is the latest quarter. Cash flow is cruising. The stock's doubling. Is this, in your view, sort of a product cycle thing? Updates of ELAs or is this a sustained recognition by the customer base that not everything is going to go into the public cloud, that we're going to bring the cloud operating model to the business. What's your sense? >> It's a great question. I think a big part of this is ... I do think it's a, it will be a sustainable growth going forward. I think a big part when I was at VMware. They had the whole vCloud Air cloud environment, which was confusing to the public cloud. And for customers because I think people didn't buy in on the vCloud Air strategy. I think what changed it. One aspect that changed it for VMware was this VMware Cloud on AWS announcement. Which, a lot of companies want to move to AWS and want to move to the cloud. But they want to do it with the same infrastructure that they have on premise, so if you can give them vSphere, the same kind of stack, but in the cloud, >> There's a pathway. >> it opens up opportunities. And that's when we started to see a VMware where companies would do a one-year, two-year agreement because we weren't sure of their long term cloud strategy. Now, they are. That's a great model. That's a great plan. Now, I'll go three, four years with VMware because I like that strategy. And it's great for AWS because they weren't getting a lot of mission critical apps going to AWS in the enterprise. But, now you've got VMware infrastructure that makes it so much easier for companies to take some of this on premise mission critical and move it to the cloud. So, I think it was great for Amazon. Great for VMware. But I also think a lot of some of the smaller drivers, I think Microsoft kind of not focusing as much on Hyper-V has kind of led vSphere to kind of rebirth of vSphere in the market. We see that growth and we're pegged a lot to the vSphere and Hyper-V, the whole virtualization side. I think it's part of VMware getting a better strategy for the cloud, but I think it's also customers kind of getting comfortable that it's not going to be this massive shift to the cloud. It's going to be a hybrid story. >> Well, it's interesting. The vCloud Air piece was always, even go back to Maritz, it was the recognition that the advantage that the hyperscalers had was homogeneity. vCloud Air was always homogenous, like to like. Or what Oracle called same same. And so, in effect, what VMware is doing, I wonder if you agree with this, with AWS, certainly with IBM, and potentially others, is similar to the vCloud Air strategy. They just don't own the cloud. >> Peter: Yeah. >> So, it's a two-edged sword. VMware did a debt, they raised about another four billion. Their CapX is relatively low. >> Peter: Yeah. >> Couple hundred million. >> Peter: Yeah. >> So, they don't have all that Hyperscale CapX. That's an advantage, but at the same time they don't have the vertical integration. >> Peter: Yeah. >> What's your thought on that as a sort of observer? >> That's a big ... I was acquired into VMware. >> Right. >> Three year, four year, whatever years ago from Desktone. And the CEO of Desktone came in. And it was desktop as a service, so desktops in a cloud. And so I got the whole vCloud Air and the cloud market and I kind of said when I came in, I think building your own cloud is, don't do it. Because it's going to suck a lot of cash and it's all up front when you're behind in the race to the public market, right? You had IBM already there. You had Amazon there. You had Azure, Google. VMware was going to be late to the game on vCloud Air. And so, I thought it was the smart move of kind of moving that out. Plus, VMware with vCloud Air alienated the other managed service providers that are building a business. So, you're almost competing with the same people you're trying to load up with your technology. >> Dave: Yeah. >> So, it was like, no. Stay neutral. Stay out of that. You've stayed out of the hardware. Stay out of the cloud. >> So, I want to bring that back to Veeam. Because for you guys, I think the clarity is a great thing. It reduces all that friction and all that noise and now the mission is clear. I wonder if you can comment on that? >> Peter: Yeah. I think that was the, that's what the market wanted. More clarity on what's your cloud strategy. That was I think the biggest mover in the market. VMware's growth has really came when they flicked that switch. When they announced that whole Amazon strategy. And I think it helped us because we're an obviously strong partner with VMware and strong partner with Amazon, so putting them together is perfect. That's why we were able to do it faster than anybody. When you go by our booth, you can see it. We demo it. It's all up and running. But, I think it helped VMware get clarity on their strategy. It helped Amazon and it drove our market. >> You guys draft right behind that. >> We just draft in right behind you, right? So I think that was a good move for everybody. >> Last question for you as the CEO, co-CEO of Veeam. Been around in this space for a long time. What are some of the core things that Veeam does to attract and retain talent as we look at technology like backup and recovery that's hot again? >> Yeah. Well, you know, I think it's a, you've got to, I think a lot of it comes down to culture. We've got, I mean, we've always had great technology. So the product has always been the driver. It gets in, it does a really good job. And then it becomes, then it's the people. We've got a great culture of people. We call it hungry, humble, and smart people. You know, and we have fun. We drive, we're aggressive. We're scrappy. We're hungry. But no egos. In our partner community, is similar. And so, I think it makes because of that you get a reputation and it's kind of a spot that people want to come to. We've done a good job of as we're growing, we've invested in our team to make our team better. But we've also brought in a lot of skill set. Especially in the enterprise where we need to get more skills outside of kind of S and B and commercial. So we've done I think a good job of merging, the investment in our existing team with a lot of really good skills and expertise that we didn't have but also fit the culture. So keep that founders, that Ratmir's founder mentality as the business grows and scales. And make it still being that fun scrappy software company that made Veeam what it is today. >> Yeah, it kind of gets to my last question which was you guys are maturing even though there's a lot of immature things going on. >> Oh yeah. >> Dave: Which is a lot of fun. >> It's fun. We can talk about that ... (laughter) >> All good. But, we talked about this. Veeam's ascendancy was during the virtualization craze. And you guys really got a strong foothold. And beat the competition. And now you're seeing a lot of emergent cloud data protection guys. Very well funded. Hundreds of millions of dollars in a business that's not capital intensive. How are you going to maintain your relevance there? It's a big part of your job. >> Peter: Yeah, it is. >> It's a big part of why they brought you in. >> It is. I mean, a lot of it is kind of continue to do what we've done in terms of being as you grow, and as you scale, don't lose the aggressiveness. It's, think big, right? We've always been taking bigger and bigger steps as an organization. Taking risks. Being aggressive. Being bold. Doing things that you do it as a small company but continue to do it. And that's still with our founders. That's the mentality of our business. A big part of my job is to make sure we don't lose that, right? As you get to 800 and a billion, still be that hungry and aggressive and scrappy company that we were six years ago, seven years ago when we were much smaller. But it's even more important today to be that as we move forward in this hyper competitive different market that exists. We've just got to be so much better every day. Every day that we come to work, we got to be better than we were the day before. >> And scrappy and hungry. I love it. >> Peter: Scrappy and hungry. (laughing) >> Peter McKay, thank you so much for your we'll say nth time on theCube. >> Yes. >> Lisa: Does that work? >> That's fair. >> Alright. For Peter McKay, the President and Co-CEO of Veeam and my co-host, Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCube live from day one of VMworld 2017. Stick around. We will be right back. (techno music)

(upbeat electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering HPE Discover 2017, brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. We are live here in Las Vegas for theCUBE. (mumbles) check the signal for the noise. I'm John Furrier with David Vellante. We just had Meg Whitman up here, Dave. Our next guest, another CEO, Peter McKay, CEO of Veeam. Welcome to theCUBE. Congratulations on your success, and great party last night. >> Thank you. It's a good party. Veeam always has a good party. So it's been a great event. This has been really action packed from the time we got here yesterday. >> It really speaks to the change of HPE. You guys are a big time sponsor, great booth space here. You presence is here, and you're in that ecosystem and doing very well. Explain for a minute why that's happening, why is Veeam such a prominent role at HPE this year. >> First, I think culturally, the companies really work well together. A lot of our customers, whether it's enterprise or commercial, kind of that mid-tier market, have been asking for more solutions. And we're a part of it. We're the software. HP is the hardware component, and we bring together. And it's really made it easier for our customers to buy a solution versus trying to buy all the pieces and having to pull that together. So it's really worked out well for both organizations as we expand. >> Well, Peter, a couple more zeros to your revenue number and you'll be running a company the size of Meg's soon. Now of course, Veeam brought you in really to the next level. New management, new messaging, we heard a lot of that at VeeamON, one of the things you talked about. What I liked about your messaging at VeeamON is everybody talks about digital transformation. What you did is you pinpointed it around always on availability. I wonder if you could share with our audience and sort of summarize what you were talking about there. >> Yeah, in the software world, we've lived through a lot of transitions, from mainframe, to client-server, to cloud, all the way through. Everybody's going through, as you said, this transformation and the ability for applications or data to be accessible at anytime anyplace. It used to be that everybody backs up. Now it's about recovery. It's about all your apps, and all your data, all your services to be available seven by 24, 365. And so it's no become just like security was earlier when it was kind of an afterthought. Now it's a forethought. Look it, we're pushing more applications. They're more agile. It's going to go down. British Airways, it's been a huge issue. One guy pulls a plug, next thing you know, it's $100 million. So for us, it's now become mission critical, what we do. And that's where this digital transformation, as kids getting older and they're entering this workforce that only know the digital life, want an always on environment. They're not going to be satisfied with a world that is a bad service, where it's down and I have to go to some other spot. So it's this convergence of companies making this transformation and this new group of users that are coming online that only know a digital life. And that's kind of where we see it all coming together for Veeam. >> So that's a great vision. And we've talked in the past about the ascendancy of Veeam is around VMware backup. You're transitioning that messaging into, as you say, recovery and always on availability. It seems like there's a huge market for this intercloud, multicloud management. Your vision there is any combination of use cases, on prem, off prem, bringing it down from SaaS. So I wonder if you could talk about that strategy, that white space, which is really jump ball in the industry right now. >> It is. So for companies today, they have options. They want to have options, right? They want to have the ability. I want to be able to backup and recover from our on premise data, from my internal data center, manage cloud, manage service, or in a public cloud. So I want to be able to back up but also recover from any of those environments and move it. There may be some applications, Office 365, that's in the cloud, but I want to be able to back up and recover on premise. And so it's opened up a lot of flexibility for customers that don't want to have it all on prem that for some of their data, they can put it in the cloud. For some of it, they want to have a very specific service provider that has a security or a vertical expertise, they want to go with them. But either way, they want to be able to access that data anywhere it is on any infrastructure. >> What's the business relationship? What's the connection this year? And just take a minute to describe that for the folks. >> Yeah, no, it's really evolved from a purely technical relationship where all of our technology integrates with all the different HP stack, but it's evolved. As more customers wanted more solutions, they want more of the packaging coming together as a bundle or even appliances, we've been working closer on the go to market side where our partners were kind of pulling these together. And so in November, we announced a global reseller agreement, an OEM agreement with HP that allows HP now and HP partners to resell Veeam as a solution with HP hardware, together or separate, into an HP customer. And so that's been a win for HP because they focus on a data protection solution and always on. >> It's good for the portfolio. I mean they got another club in their bag, so to speak. You guys get a nice pop. >> The brand and their channel, right? And so I think the data protection story and the solutions that HPE can bring together is really compelling. And for us, they've got a broad go to market organization that we can leverage. >> Well, you kind of need each other. I mean you're coming upmarket. I mean the story of Veeam is actually quite amazing. You booked over half a billion dollars, I think 600 million last year. >> Peter: 607, yup. >> Never taken a dime of outside capital, which is outstanding. I guess extensively, want to remain private is sort of the narrative, but you really don't stress about that. >> We're owned by two people. It's pretty simple, and they brought me in to grow a long-term sustainable software company, right? That's my job. That's what I do everyday. What they want to do at some point in time in the future, that's really up to those two. But for me-- >> How does a company go from standing start to over half a billion with no outside capital? >> Great technology. I mean I think from day one, if you've known Veeam, you know that the technology has always been, we use the saying it just works, and our customers will say it. And we have a very loyal customer base. 73 was our score in MPS, which went from 63 to 73. So customer loyalty, strong. Good culture, good company. We've added 1,000 people over the last 12 months. We're going to add another 800 over the next. So good company, good people, 45,000 partners that we've added across the globe. >> And you showed a slide at VeeamON which I want to share with the audience. Again, it was outstanding. It was Workday, Salesforce, and ServiceNow. And essentially, you showed that you're actually going to achieve, on track to achieve a billion faster than those companies. >> Yeah, that's our goal, 2018, to get there, 800 to a billion. I mean that's our internal goal, right? I came in, set a high bar, and we're all working towards that. We're on track. >> And you share that, you're transparent about it, which is kind a unique. >> We did it with our partners and more detail with our partner ecosystem, so they know what we're trying to do and what we're expecting of them, right? Because this is how it has to work. >> You have a shared interest there. Everyone wants that same direction. >> We're 100% channel, right? So it's not like we're taking these deals direct, and we're going to take theirs. >> Oh, you know, the channel, you have to fake the channel once, you're done. You really got to be straight up with them and make them money too. (laughs) >> Just like our customers, our partners are extremely loyal to Veeam. >> All right, I got to ask you, we see a lot at VMworld, and we got that coming up. theCUBE will be there live. Actually, their deal with Amazon points to the hybrid cloud. That's the story here. Hybrid and cloud certainly changed the game on backup recovery, all aspects of storage in the software. What's your vision there? And share with the folks what that means for them as they think about their architectures, the hybrid. >> What it means to VMware? >> No, what it means to the customer who sits there going, "Okay, I've seen all the signals. "I've got VMware. "Now I'm seeing it with Amazon, the relationship, "that's a hybrid cloud path." >> I think up till a little while, up till that announcement, I think it was a lot of the kind of niche use cases, a lot more of the kind of simple workloads were going into Amazon and Azure. But not a lot of the mission critical were kind of moving in that direction yet. With VMware moving to Amazon, it's opened up the door because now, all of them are using vSphere as part of their mission critical apps. So now it's kind of like the door has been opened to moving more of these mission critical into Amazon, which I think was a great move for VMware, great move for Amazon because they want the mission critical. VMware wants to stay, keep everybody on vSphere. And for us, we're extremely close and tied to VMware, and we are moving closer to Amazon. So it's a win for us, and we'll be the first to be in that environment. >> I saw the magician out there on the floor, all these Benjamins, throwing the money around. You guys are doing well. You're making some money for your partners as well on the channels. It's a great strategy. Your observation here at HPE Discover, what's your observation of what's happening here at the event and some of the takeaways? >> So I started my career, a big company, then I did three kind of earlier stage, and then back to big companies, VMware and in here. The line we always use in kind of building a business is focus, focus, focus. And I think what I see is HPE more focused, more focused than ever. It's a tighter message. The vision that they have is so much more clearer. And that's just not my observation. That's the feedback I get from the ecosystem and the customers that we're talking to, that they like it. It allows them to get a much clearer understanding of the HPE direction and where they're going and when they're placing their bets. >> And top three priorities for you guys at Veeam over the course of the next six to 12 months, your goals for the company. >> So we look at it in terms of the pillars. Obviously, the enterprise is a major investment area around the globe, as you said, to go upstream. And so we used to do purely virtual, as you mentioned, and now we do physical. Now we do cloud extension. So we have all that. We think we have the platform for the enterprise. Not to say we don't want to continue to do that, but enterprise is number one. Cloud and obviously, it's having that ability for customers to move workloads anywhere, kind of that orchestration of those workloads. That's a critical initiative for us. And then for me, it's look it, the business is going well. Don't screw it up. Got to keep the S&P going, keep the commercial-- >> Hands on the wheel, hold it straight. >> Do all this other good stuff but don't drop the ball on the other side. What do they say about a doctor? First, do no harm, do no harm to the business and then grow it over here. >> And that's your role and your co-CEO's role, is to really keep that innovation engine going, right? >> Yes. >> I mean near CDP and like you say, bare (mumbles). I mean that's the development track that-- >> And I think you will see us kind of expanding that a little bit and maybe some inorganic. We've acquired, we've accumulated a nice balance sheet that allows us to do some creative things that maybe we'll talk about at the end of the road. We announced one in TWS, which is a company that was in the Amazon marketplace that has opened up some more opportunities for us. We're going to continue to invest and acquire as we go to compliment some of the things that we've been doing very successfully on organic growing. >> David: Amazing. >> Peter McKay, co-CEO of Veeam. Thank you for coming on theCUBE and sharing your insight, and thanks for the commentary. More live coverage from HPE Discover 2017 after this short break. Stay with us. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from New Orleans, its theCUBE, covering VeeamOn 2017. Brought to you by Veeam. >> We're back in New Orleans. Peter McKay is back, co-CEO, and newly-minted co-CEO, and Sanjay Poonen is here, the CEO of VMware, longtime CUBE alum and friend of theCUBE. Great to see you, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks, it's good to be here on your show. >> So, Sanjay, you were up in the keynote talking about the partnership with Veeam, your relationship with Peter. So let's start there. You guys have known each other for a long time. You acquired Peter's company into VMware. You guys had a great run up. Start there. Give us a little background on your relationship. >> Well, Dave, relationships make the world go round. I was very fortunate, almost I think on my first week at VMware to meet Peter in the context of a possible acquisition of Desktone. It was the first deal I did at VMworld a few months later. He was just a delight to work with. And, you know, we just give him more and more responsibility. At some point we ran out of things he could do. And he is now here. So we are very proud of him and all he's doing at Veeam. And Veeam's been a great partner of ours. I mean the level of integration have gone into our products. I was just so proud to see all of VMware products and Veeam products making our customers happy. And that's really, really a great story. >> I want to spend a second on that. I mean, obviously we're here to talk about Veeam and VeeamOn and we will, but that business was a struggling business. I mean admittedly when you came on and prior to the acquisition and did some really hard work. I mean, Citrix dominated that business and it really didn't take long for you guys to get a groove swing going. How did that happen? >> And it's a great story. Sanjay did all the heavy lifting there. It was just fun to really watch that transformation happen at VMware. It was, I mean, Desktone was a piece and I kid Sanjay that it all changed when they bought Desktone, but that really was the, it all changed when Sanjay came on board and really transformed that business that was, like you said, struggling and gave it direction and enthusiasm and built the momentum of that business to really look at that market and say these are the things we can do. With a great vision and a great strategy pulled together and a strong team, I was just fortunate to be part of that as I kind of moved through VMware. And it was a great experience and I learned a lot from Sanjay as we went through that process. >> I mean you have always been very humble, and said it's the team, it's not me, and I'm sure there's a lot of truth to that, but what is it, the piece parts, the right technology? I mean obviously, you know, VMware has always had great vision. But just all came together. >> Yeah, I think that sort of starts where Peter left out. And it starts with team. I'm a big Warriors fan. This week I'm a Celtics fan, too. We'd love to see the Celtics play the Warriors. But it's strength in numbers, and you know Peter was a key part of that team, Sumita Won, Noah, the list goes on. People on his team that he brought, like Dave Grant, and many of them take on bigger and bigger jobs. As I moved into my new role, I groomed Sumita, he's now taking that. So it really always starts with a team. We believe that strength in numbers. We've hired what I think, and groomed, the best team in end user computing bar none. Secondly, we really had a point of view and a vision of certain things that were going to remove the two Cs that I think have plagued the space: cost and complexity. And one part of cost and complexity, the cloud, things like Desktone, later on moving to things like AirWatch in the cloud. And as we did that, we really, really start to embrace these vectors of innovation. And the third is embracing the ecosystem. To us the ecosystem is hugely important and you know, you think about companies like Apple and Google, they were irrelevant to VMware, but now in the context of end user computing, Apple and Google are embracing us. Further into the cloud, AWS last year, yesterday we announced that Horizon Cloud will run on Azure. So the ecosystem is the third pillar of what we've done. I think all three of those are key reasons we've been successful. >> Well and VMware has had an epic ecosystem. So what, Peter, can you learn from that and how do you apply it at Veeam? >> I've learned a lot. I was there for three and a half years and it was a great learning experience for me as I look to kind of how VMware really addressed a lot of the customer challenges, but also had a great vision for where they wanted to go. And so when I came over to Veeam, it was very much, and to be honest, Veeam really piggybacked on a lot of the things that VMware did over the years. Same approach to the sales model, a lot of the same partners, and our customers are pretty much overlapping. And so what we've done is just, I've learned a lot from the things that really went well at VMware and I brought a lot of that best practices over to Veeam in the 10, 11 months that I've been here. I think there's a lot of things that we can do. And a lot of it, that Sanjay said, the ecosystem, that's a big part of what I've been doing since I came here, is broadening our ecosystem partner community to make it easier for our customers, especially in the enterprise where they want us to work better together, not just technology, which we've done a really good job, but expanding past technology into how do we work better in the field together and how do our partners interact together. And that's really worked out very well for us. >> Sanjay, in your keynote you talked about a lot of the joint customers VMware and Veeam, we talked in the intro about the ascendancy of Veeam kind of riding the VMware wave. One of the questions I had from a lot of the community coming in is, if you look at things like VMware on AWS, talked about the Azure piece there, how does the relationship with Veeam fit there? Veeam obviously has its multi cloud strategy, but in the cloud, how do customers know that VMware is going to, you know, stay partnering with companies like Veeam? >> Yeah, Stu, I think it's a really good question. For us, as we kind of looked at our hybrid cloud strategy, we had to actually make some changes. Eighteen months ago, if you asked VMware about our hybrid cloud strategy, you probably heard vCloud Air as the first thing we talked about. We've since then divested that asset. We've changed a lot of the way in which we've done. We worked to embrace the public cloud. Our partnership with AWS, a preferred primary cloud partner, that has been enormously helpful in giving people a vision of where the data center is headed. But as we've begun to do that, and you'll hear more about kind of the GA of that offering as we approach the summer round of VMworld, but what we're doing with AWS, a couple of things started to play out where customers were asking us for some add on services for VMware Cloud Foundation running on AWS. And the two I began to hear most often with customers were around security and around data, issues like backup. So we began to create a list of ISVs that we really want to kind of work closely with. Companies like Palo Alto, for example in security. Companies like Veeam in the backup area. And it's not to say others aren't important, other topics, but these are the ones that are very important. And VMware always, you come to VMworld, hundreds and thousands of companies have made themselves successful on our platform. We want to continue that. And then what we seek to do it just like you saw on stage today and have the product managers and the technical product marketing folks really integrate products to see vRealize and Log Insight and vSAN. Of course vSphere is so deeply integrated with Veeam, and them taking advantages. You know, it benefits their 200,000 plus customers, which is a big subset of our 500,00 customers. >> Peter, I heard in Sanjay's keynote, talked about things like containers, some of these newer technologies, openStack. How do those play into the partnership? >> Well I think as we started our partnership all around vSphere and it kind of expanded as Sanjay said, we continue to look for ways that we can work better together development-wise, but also go to market. So we've integrated even further with vSphere, as he said, vSAN and vRealize. And a lot of that is opening up the platform for containers and other cloud services that we continue to integrate with. And so I think we're very, our development organizations are working very closely. As VMware is expanding its reach and its platform, we are doing it as well. And so that's a lot of why I think you see the success we've had between the two companies. >> Question for you guys on cloud. You know, you do the SWOT analysis. And sometimes you get confused, is that an opportunity or is that a threat, right, okay. So cloud is one of those. Obviously building your own public cloud is not an option, no longer an option, not really ever been an option for Veeam. How do you make cloud an opportunity, each of you? >> Sanjay: I'll let you start, Peter, and then I'll. >> So for Veeam, way back in, three years ago, four years ago, they made it a major investment into a managed service, companies who are building a cloud. And we've built that up to, as I said, 15, 16,000 of these partner and managed service providers and cloud providers. And this is the world that I lived in from my Desktone days. We always believe that as part of, this on premise, this public cloud, and we continue to, Amazon, Azure, and Google, but we always believe that there is companies that have this special value add, that a lot of companies were going to go to, and we thought that was the managed service provider community and the systems integrators or the strategic outsourcers. And so three years ago we started to invest very heavily in building that and helping them build that business around Veeam. And that part has turned out to be a fantastic part of our business. Now about almost 30% of our business is coming from those providers that are selling cloud services, managed service providers, as well as now the new public cloud is becoming a bigger part of our business. So, for us, yeah, you could look at it early on, as maybe that's a negative, but it is by far the focus for our business going forward. >> I would just add, you know briefly building on that, we had a very similar approach. I think when I was last time on theCUBE I described our approach in this analogy. Imagine 500,000 customers, you know 40, 50 million workloads sitting on this island called VMware, a continent called VMware. And around it started to appear island. Four thousand of them have embraced VMware, the same service providers, the ones he talked to. But the biggest four we were wrestling how would we become relevant to them. And you have to look at this no longer as a threat, but an opportunity. I fundamentally believe when you face a crisis, you can either go down the path of a disaster or an opportunity. We began to say, we want to be the infrastructure software bridge into every public or private cloud. So which means, you know, if it's going to be AWS, we want to build that software bridge that allows workloads to move there, come back if they choose to, and then specialized kinds of workloads that might sit on the cloud. So we started out with IBM Cloud and AWS Cloud, but then our customers said we'd like to have the VDI service that you're running on IBM also run on Azure because it's a Windows workload. Okay, we can do that. And that's what we announced yesterday. So we're going to be very focused in getting this thing successful for our customers. And where they are seeing the public clouds as part of the infrastructure service, we're going to go right there with them. >> And to the extent, Peter, that you can cut costs and complexity better than anybody else, then you become a more attractive partner to VMware and then you get that virtuous cycle. Gents, great to see you both. Thanks very much for coming back to theCUBE. >> Always a pleasure. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thank you very much for having us here. >> Thank you. >> Alright, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. We're live from VeeamOn in New Orleans. Be right back. (techno music) (musical computer tones)

>> Voiceover: Live from New Orleans, it's The Cube. Covering VeeamOn 2017. Brought to you by Veeam. (funky electronic theme music) >> Welcome back to New Orleans everybody. This is the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract a signal from the noise. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm here with Stu Miniman. Ratmir Timashev is here, he's the co-founder of Veeam and he's joined by Peter McKay who's the co-CEO and president. Gentleman, good to see you. >> Good to see you. >> Welcome to the Cube, congratulations on the great keynote this morning. >> Great to see you, Dave. >> Seemed like you guys were having fun out there. >> Yeah it is, it's a lot of fun, it's a great, great time. >> So Ratmir, I want to start with you. A lot of people in our audience may not be familiar with Veeam. We've been sort of sharing with them, the rapid ascendancy of the company. But come, go back ten years, why did you start, you and your co-founder, start the company? >> Yeah, the company's ten years old. Last year we celebrated ten years, it was started in 2006 by me and my partner who is the technology side. He's my technology genius. I'm on the sales and marketing. So we started the company with the simple idea to build the new version, or new generation data protection for virtualized environments. VMware was getting hot back in 2005, 2006, 2007. It kept more and more penetration within enterprise. Back then the cloud was like, 10 or 20 percent penetrated, but we saw that, it's going to be 90 eventually, so we wanted to ride this big wave, technology revolution wave. And now I think we, looking back ten years I think we're in a very similar spot with the cloud. Cloud is where visualization was 10 years ago so and we want to ride this new wave or the cloud wave the same way exactly that we rode the VM wave, visualization and hyper-V wave. >> You know that's interesting, I was explaining to the audience this morning that your ascendancy coincided with Vmware and what happened was we consolidated resources and the one resource that was so precious was for backup and everybody had to re architect their backup and you guys were the, were an answer and obviously one of the more popular answers. Now we're into this cloud era and you see a similar opportunity, you're messaging sort of focuses on that and there's an emergent strategy that you're >> Yeah. >> putting forth. >> I mean I think everybody is moving into a multi cloud environment, right? Where there's going to be, their data's going to be all over the place, they're going to be on premise or manage service providers or in AWS or Azure and so and for us we need to be able to make it available and always on and so that's our focus is to make it very easy for our customers to store their data and run their applications and always be available no matter what the environment is. On premise, off, no matter what the infrastructure is. >> So we talk about digital transformation a lot on The Cube, every event we go to, it's digital transformation, you guys had a little bit different spin on that, digital life, always on, availability, capabilities. You're having fun with green. (laughs) >> Ratmir: Yeah. >> Peter: Oh yeah. >> Green is, >> We always have fun with green. >> Green is go. >> As you can tell. >> A lot of things you can do with green is go, color of money >> Celtics, right? Boston Celtics. >> Boston Celtics. Number one pick. >> Veeam green team. Veeam green machine. >> Veeam green machine, love it. So give us your perspective on this whole digital life. What is that all about? >> Yeah so our message in the last 10 years has evolved. Originally when we started our message was very simple. We're number one VMware backup. That message really resonated and we did deliver on the purpose of number one VMware backup. I remember first time when we introduce that concept, our competitors look at us like who knows them? But then we did in fact become the number one VMware backup, so And our message has evolved over time so from technical message to, that is focused on our core customer which is IT prone. The person that really understands the modern technologies, responsible for the modern data center. Understands the modern storage cloud technologies and visualization technologies. But that message has evolved as we are growing, becoming bigger, and we're going more into a enterprise so now solution become bigger and broader. That covers cloud. So we had to evolve our message so right now our message is, has become more consumer centric, more emotional, touching our digital life. Because we believe that that's at the end of the day, that's what we do. We enable our customers, our businesses to provide this seamless digital life experience for their users. That's what we do. >> So I love it when a successful company brings in a new leader. Because as opposed to things are bad and they have to make a change, we saw this last week, I mentioned I was at ServiceNow Knowledge, Frank Slootman, incredibly successful CEO, stepped aside, brought in a new, and part of that transition was about reaching a new constituency, so my question to you, Peter, is traditionally the Veeam audience is hardcore operational people. Your messaging is much higher level in the organization so how are you dealing with that sort of bifurcated personas, who are you targeting in this sort of new messaging? >> So as the, in the early days of Veeam it started in kind of that SMB market and kind of expanded into commercial and now very focused on the enterprise and so a lot of the enterprise are kind of working through this transition. The digital life and the new, staying relevant to the new users that are coming online and so we've found that our message needed to evolve as well and it needs to be, lines in business now are getting more involved in some of the decision making so our message wasn't where it needed to be in terms of evolving it for that enterprise customer and one that we think will foster that digital transformation for a lot of our companies customers and so we view this was the right time, especially with version 10, version 9.5 which was very successful and version 10 which really expands our enterprise capability but also we needed to, it broadens a lot of the applications down to things that we could do in an enterprise and we needed that message to also be kind of that enterprise in a broad strategic message. >> Peter, when I talk to customers these days, it's a very fragmented market out there, I think, as Ratmir said you rode that VMware wave, now customers adopting lots of sass, they're doing multiple public clouds, they're trying to figure out how they modernize their private cloud. Before it was VMware, therefore I need backup. Now it's how much does their choice on where they put their data and their application drive to you, how much do you have kind of the brand Veeam out there to kind of pull into those other environments and do customers turn to you for help in sorting out that kind of multi cloud world? >> Yeah actually I was talking to a friend of mine who is a key analyst at ESG, Jason Buffington, you know Jason. >> Yeah he's coming on. >> He had a great point about the industry, that our data industry or storage industry or data protection industry, he said that every new wave you go from mainframe to client server, from client server to visualization, from visualization to cloud. There is always a new backup leader. Because the technology changes so much and the people or the company that doesn't have this old baggage with the old technology, old agent based or supporting all these legacy platforms, that can move much faster and that's what Veeam has demonstrated with visualization. The only exception is the transition from visualization to cloud because cloud is based on visualization. So and based on the concept of the data mobility, and that's, from the mental concept to visualization and so we believe that we are very well set with our leadership position in visualization to also dominate cloud market because our technologies are modern technologies specifically built for visualization and cloud. >> And is the argument then that an Amazon or an Azure won't dominate that, because essentially they are a cloud stovepipe, is that right, can you expand on that a little bit? >> That's the way we look at it, I mean it's choice. People want to put, they should be able to put their data wherever they want or their applications, and we should make it very easy for them to do that. If they want to do an Azure, but it's not only just putting it in Azure, it's being able to get after it, get it and move it and transfer data no matter where wanted to so for us it's about providing the flexibility to move the data or run the apps no matter where you want at any time. >> Peter you ran a company that Vmware acquired that was an Azure service. Veeam has some Azure service solutions, customers often times are trying to switch from there's no more shrink wrap software anymore, models for buying it, where do you see customers in that adoption? Curious of your old role and kind of today what you're seeing. >> It's interesting, so Desktone was very much of a platform for managed service providers and cloud providers and so in coming to Veeam, a big part of our business, which is very different than I think a lot of the other people in the market is focusing on those cloud providers. Not just Amazon, Azure, the public, but also we have 15, over 15,000 managed service providers and cloud providers that run our platform as a business. And so when we rolled out a number of features here that if, unless you were a managed service provider or a cloud provider, you wouldn't get the multi-tenancy and the things that we built on scalability that are really changing the game we believe for the managed service providers. But it's also, what we saw at Desktone that went into Veeam. It's, our customers are also doing it as a service within their organization. Things like multi-tenancy are things that they need and scalability are things that they need as a business, so it's a lot of similarities between the world that I lived in and Desktone and VMware to where we are today. >> One of the impressive stats, you said 2016, 231,000 customers that you have. Are all of those paying customers, you have the free version, can you give us any insight as to how many pay versus free >> It's actually over 245,000, that was at the end of the year, so we're adding 4,000 new customers every month and those are all paid. We don't count the people who downloaded the free version of it. >> That's good to know, you could have millions of >> We have millions so far our other free products, yes. >> Awesome. >> Millions of users. >> That's important. >> And another stat you put out in the keynote was an NPS of 73 which is really, really good. Can we talk about that a little bit? Ratmir you were making the point off camera that it rose from the low 60s. What's going on there? >> Yeah so last year it was 61, the year before it was 62, so we were kind of very high but flat, so and this year it actually jumped to 73 and the reason that I personally contribute that to is because we had extremely powerful release 9.5 and customer are extremely happy with the improvements, and the easy of operate and using all these new capabilities, it was the most, the smoothest upgrade, the smoothest release and with the powerful features. The second reason I think our NPS, net promoter score, rose that much is because Peter came on board. (laughs) So in the last 10 month, Peter really, really strengthen our team. I thought that we are moving very fast but now, so we have the concept of Veeam speed, that means moving really fast but now we, actually with Peter we are moving 10 times faster, all of magnitude faster. >> I don't believe it's me but I think what Veeam has always done is done a really good job of listening to our customers and communicating with our customers on a regular basis. We built at a customer success business, part of our business that we're investing in, but we have a whole, a team of people who just solicit and communicate with our partners, and our customers on a regular basis, so they know what we're doing, it's rare that they don't really get a good sense of where we're going and the vision and strategy of Veeam so I think that goes a long way in driving our NPS score. >> We got to break but last thing we really haven't double clicked on is the ecosystem, maybe a quick word on that and then we'll wrap. >> That's a big, obviously, a partner community, we have 45,000 partners, we have 15, over 15,000 managed service providers in cloud. Probably the area that is impacting our business quite a bit now recently is a lot of the alliance partnerships that have. Today we have Veeamware, we have Cisco, very strong and successful, we announced HPE which not only is a development partnership but also a resell partnership and go to market which is dramatically impacing >> Former competitor. >> Yes yes which has opened up a tremendous amount of opportunities for us so we're going to continue to expand into other companies, we're, because 50% of this market is changing over in 2017 and 18, from legacy solutions to new, in the hardware is a piece of that and we're trying to embed as much of that into one sales motion, one bundle for our customers, making it easy to try and buy Veeam. >> Okay, founder gets the last word, bumper sticker when the buses are pulling away, the trucks are pulling away from New Orleans, what's the bumper sticker on VeeamOn 2017? >> See you in 2018. (laughs) Let's have another great year, and another stick with Veeam. >> We find out I think Thursday where 2018 is going to happen. >> Yes. >> Alright so stay with us alright thanks Gents for coming to The Cube. >> Excellent, thanks for having us. >> You're welcome alright keep it right there buddy we'll be back with our next guest, The Cube are live from VeeamOn in New Orleans, be right back. (funky electronic theme music)

>> TheCUBE presents Ignite 22 brought to you by Palo Alto Networks. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas, everyone. We're glad you're with us. This is theCUBE live at Palo Alto Ignite 22 at the MGM Grant in Las Vegas. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante, day one of our coverage. We've had great conversations. The cybersecurity landscape is so interesting Dave, it's such a challenging problem to solve but it's so diverse and dynamic at the same time. >> You know, Lisa theCUBE started in May of 2010 in Boston. We called it the chowder event, chowder and Lobster. It was a EMC world, 2010. BJ Jenkins, who's here, of course, was a longtime friend of theCUBE and made the, made the transition into from, well, it's still data, data to, to cyber. So >> True. And BJ is back with us. BJ Jenkins, president Palo Alto Networks great to have you back on theCUBE. >> It is great to be here in person on theCube >> Isn't it great? >> In Vegas. It's awesome. >> And we can tell by your voice will be, will be gentle. You, you've been in Vegas typical Vegas occupational hazard of losing the voice. >> Yeah. It was one of the benefits of Covid. I didn't lose my voice at home sitting talking to a TV. You lose it when you come to Vegas. >> Exactly. >> But it's a small price to pay. >> So things kick off yesterday with the partner summit. You had a keynote then, you had a customer, a CISO on stage. You had a keynote today, which we didn't get to see. But talk to us a little bit about the lay of the land. What are you hearing from CISOs, from CIOs as we know security is a board level conversation. >> Yeah, I, you know it's been an interesting three or four months here. Let me start with that. I think, cybersecurity in general is still front and center on CIOs and CISO's minds. It has to be, if you saw Wendy's presentation today and the threats out there companies have to have it front and center. I do think it's been interesting though with the macro uncertainty. We've taken to calling this year the revenge of the CFO and you know these deals in cybersecurity are still a top priority but they're getting finance and procurements, scrutiny which I think in this environment is a necessity but it's still a, you know, number one number two imperative no matter who you talked to, in my mind >> It was interesting what Nikesh was saying in the last conference call that, hey we just have to get more approvals. We know this. We're, we're bringing more go-to-market people on board. We, we have, we're filling the pipeline 'cause we know they're going to split up deals big deals go into smaller chunks. So the question I have for you is is how are you able to successfully integrate those people so that you can get ahead of that sort of macro transition? >> Yeah I, you know, I think there's two things I'd say about uncertain macro situations and Dave, you know how old I am. I'm pretty old. I've been through a lot of cycles. And in those cycles I've always found stronger companies with stronger value proposition separate themselves actually in uncertain, economic times. And so I think there's actually an opportunity here. The message tilts a little bit though where it's been about innovation and new threat vectors to one of you have 20, 30, 40 vendors you can consolidate become more effective in your security posture and save money on your TCOs. So one of the things as we bring people on board it's training them on that business value proposition. How do you take a customer who's got 20 or 30 tools take 'em down to 5 or 10 where Palo is more central and strategic and be able to demonstrate that value. So we do that through, we're making a huge investment in our people but macroeconomic times also puts some stronger people back on the market and we're able to incorporate them into the business. >> What are the conditions that are necessary for that consolidation? Like I would imagine if you're, if you're a big customer of a big, you know, competitor of yours that that migration is going to be harder than if you're dealing with lots of little point tools. Do those, do those point tools, are they sort of is it the end of the subscription? Is it just stuff that's off the books now? What's, the condition that is ripe for that kind of consolidation? >> Look, I think the challenge coming into this year was skills. And so customers had all of these point products. It required a lot more human intervention as Nikesh was talking about to integrate them or make them work. And as all of us know finding people with cybersecurity skills over the last 12 months has been incredibly hard. That drove, if you know, if you think about that a CIO and a CISO sitting there going, I have all all this investment in tools. I don't have the people to operate 'em. What do I need to do? What we tried to do is elevate that conversation because in a customer, everybody who's bought one of those, they they bought it to solve a problem. And there's people with affinity for that tool. They're not just going to say I want to get consolidated and give up my tool. They're going to wrap their arms around it. And so what we needed to do and this changed our ecosystem strategy too how we leverage partners. We needed to get into the CIO and CISO and say look at this chaos you have here and the challenges around people that it's, it's presenting you. We can help solve that by, by standardizing, consolidating taking that integration away from you as Nikesh talked about, and making it easier for your your high skill people to work on high skill, you know high challenges in there. >> Let chaos reign, and then reign in the chaos. >> Yes. >> Andy Grove. >> I was looking at some stats that there's 26 million developers but less than 3 million cybersecurity professionals. >> Talked about that skills gap and what CISOs and CIOs are facing is do you consider from a value prop perspective Palo Alto Networks to be a, a facilitator of helping organizations deal with that skills gap? >> I think there's a short term and a long term. I think Nikesh today talked about the long term that we'll never win this battle with human beings. We're going to have to win it with automation. That, that's the long term the short term right here and now is that people need people with cybersecurity skills. Now what we're trying to do, you know, is multifaceted. We work with universities to standardize programs to develop skills that people can come into the marketplace with. We run our own programs inside the company. We have a cloud academy program now where we take people high aptitude for sales and technical aptitude and we will put them through a six month boot camp on cloud and they'll come out of that ready to really work with the leading experts in cloud security. The third angle is partners, right, there are partners in the marketplace who want to drive their business into high services areas. They have people, they know how to train. We give them, we partner with them to give them training. Hopefully that helps solve some of the short-term gaps that are out there today. >> So you made the jump from data storage to security and >> Yeah. >> You know, network security, all kinds of security. What was that like? What you must have learned a lot in the last better part of a decade? >> Yeah. >> Take us through that. >> You know, so the first jump was from EMC. I was 15 years there to be CEO of Barracuda. And you know, it was interesting because EMC was, you know large enterprise for the most part. At Barracuda we had, you know 250,000 small and mid-size enterprises. And it was, it's interesting to get into security in small and mid-size businesses because, you know Wendy today was talking about nation states. For small and mid-size business, it's common thievery right? It's ransomware, it's, and, those customers don't have, you know, the human and financial resources to keep up with the threat factor. So, you know, Nikesh talked about how it's taken 'em four and a half years to get into cybersecurity. I remember my first week at Barracuda, I was talking with a customer who had, you know, breached data shut down. There wasn't much bitcoin back then so it was just a pure ransom. And I'm like, wow, this is, you know, incredible industry. So it's been a good, you know, transition for me. I still think data is at the heart of all of this. Right? And I have always believed there's a strong connection between the things I learned growing up at EMC and what I put into practice today at Palo Alto Networks. >> And how about a culture because I, you know I know have observed the EMC culture >> Yeah. >> And you were there in really the heyday. >> Yeah. >> Right? Which was an awesome place. And it seems like Palo Alto obviously, different times but you know, similar like laser focus on solving problems, you know, obviously great, you know value sellers, you know, you guys aren't the commodity >> Yeah. For Product. But there seemed to be some similarities from afar. I don't know Palo Alto as well as I know EMC. >> I think there's a lot. When I joined EMC, it was about, it was 2 billion in in revenue and I think when I left it was over 20, 20, 21. And, you know, we're at, you know hopefully 5, 5 5 in revenue. I feel like it's this very similar, there's a sense of urgency, there's an incredible focus on the customer. you know, Near and Moche are definitely different individuals but the both same kind of disruptive, Israeli force out there driving the business. There are a lot of similarities. I, you know, the passion, I feel privileged as a, you know go to market person that I have this incredible portfolio to go, you know, work with customers on. It's a lucky position to be in, but very I feel like it is a movie I've seen before. >> Yeah. And but, and the course, the challenges from the, the target that you're disrupting is different. It was, you know, EMC had a lot of big, you know IBM obviously was, you know, bigger target whereas you got thousands of, you know, smaller companies. >> Yes. >> And, and so that's a different dynamic but that's why the consolidation play is so important. >> Look at, that's why I joined Palo Alto Networks when I was at Barracuda for nine years. It just fascinated me, that there was 3000 plus players in security and why didn't security evolve like the storage market did or the server market or network where working >> Yeah, right. >> You know, two or three big gorillas came to, to dominate those markets. And it's, I think it's what Nikesh talked about today. There was a new problem in best of breed. It was always best of breed. You can never in security go in and, you know, say, Hey it's good I saved us some money but I got the third best product in the marketplace. And there was that kind of gap between products. I, believe in why I joined here I think this is my last gig is we have a chance to change that. And this is the first company as I look from the outside in that had best of breed as, you know Nikesh said 13 categories. >> Yeah. >> And you know, we're in the leaders quadrant and it's a conversation I have with customers. You don't have to sacrifice best of breed but get the benefits of a platform. And I, think that resonates today. I think we have a chance to change the industry from that viewpoint. >> Give us a little view of the voice of the customer. You had, was it Sabre? >> Yeah. >> That was on >> Scott Moser, The CISO from Sabre. >> Give us a view, what are you hearing from the voice of the customer? Obviously they're quite a successful customer but challenges, concerns, the partnership. >> Yeah. Look, I think security is similar to industries where we come up with magic marketing phrases and, you know, things to you know, make you want to procure our solutions. You know, zero trust is one. And you know, you'll talk to customers and they're like, okay, yes. And you know, the government, right? Joe, Joe Biden's putting out zero trust executive orders. And the, the problem is if you talk to customers, it's a journey. They have legacy infrastructure they have business drivers that you know they just don't deal with us. They've got to deal with the business side who's trying to make the money that keeps the, the company going. it's really helped them draw a map from where they're at today to zero trust or to a better security architecture. Or, you know, they're moving their apps into the cloud. How am I going to migrate? Right? Again, that discussion three years ago was around lift and shift, right? Today it's about, well, no I need cloud native developed apps to service the business the way I want to, I want to service it. How do I, so I, I think there's this element of a trusted partner and relationship. And again, I think this is why you can't have 40 or 50 of those. You got to start narrowing it down if you want to be able to meet and beat the threats that are out there for you. So I, you know, the customers, I see a lot of 'em. It's, here's where I'm at help me get here to a better position. And they know it's, you know Scott said in our keynote today, you don't just, you know have layer three firewall policies and decide, okay tomorrow I'm going to go to layer seven. That, that's not how it works. Right? There's, and, and by the way these things are a mission critical type areas. So there's got to be a game plan that you help customers go through to get there. >> Definitely. Last question, my last question for you is, is security being a board level conversation I was reading some stats from a survey I think it was the what's new in Cypress survey that that Palo Alto released today that showed that while significant numbers of organizations think they've got a cyber resiliency playbook, there's a lot of disconnect or lack of alignment at the boardroom. Are you in those conversations? How can you help facilitate that alignment between the executive team and the board when it comes to security being so foundational to any business? >> Yeah, it's, I've been on three, four public company boards. I'm on, I'm on two today. I would say four years ago, this was a almost a taboo topic. It was a, put your head in the sand and pray to God nothing happened. And you know, the world has changed significantly. And because of the number of breaches the impact it's had on brand, boards have to think about this in duty of care and their fiduciary duty. Okay. So then you start with a board that may not have the technical skills. The first problem the security industry had is how do I explain your risk profile in a way you can understand it. I'm, I'm on the board of Generac that makes home generators. It's a manufacturing, you know, company but they put Wifi modules in their boxes so that the dealers could help do the maintenance on 'em. And all of a sudden these things were getting attacked. Right? And they're being used for bot attacks. >> Yeah. >> Everybody on their board had a manufacturing background. >> Ah. >> So how do you help that board understand the risk they have that's what's changed over the last four years. It's a constant discussion. It's one I have with CISOs where they're like help us put it in layman's terms so they understand they know what we're doing and they feel confident but at the same time understand the marketplace better. And that's a journey for us. >> That Generac example is a great one because, you know, think about IOT Technologies. They've historically been air gaped >> Yes. >> By design. And all of a sudden the business comes in and says, "Hey we can put wifi in there", you know >> Connect it to a home Wifi system that >> Make our lives so much easier. Next thing you know, it's being used to attack. >> Yeah. >> So that's why, as you go around the world are you discerning, I know you were just in Japan are you discerning significant differences in sort of attitudes toward, towards cyber? Whether it's public policy, you know things like regulation where you, they don't want you sharing data, but as as a cyber company, you want to share that data with you know, public and private? >> Look it, I, I think around the world we see incredible government activity first of all. And I think given the position we're in we get to have some unique conversations there. I would say worldwide security is an imperative. I, no matter where I go, you know it's in front of everybody's mind. The, on the, the governance side, it's really what do we need to adapt to make sure we meet local regulations. And I, and I would just tell you Dave there's ways when you do that, and we talk with governments that because of how they want to do it reduce our ability to give them full insight into all the threats and how we can help them. And I do think over time governments understand that we can anonymize the data. There's, but that, that's a work in process. Definitely there is a balance. We need to have privacy, we need to have, you know personal security for people. But there's ways to collect that data in an anonymous way and give better security insight back into the architectures that are out there. >> All right. A little shift the gears here. A little sports question. We've had some great Boston's sports guests on theCUBE right? I mean, Randy Seidel, we were talking about him. Peter McKay, Snyk, I guess he's a competitor now but you know, there's no question got >> He got a little funding today. I saw that. >> Down round. But they still got a lot of money. Not of a down round, but they were, but yeah, but actually, you know, he was on several years ago and it was around the time they were talking about trading Brady. He said Never trade Brady. And he got that right. We, I think we can agree Brady's the goat. >> Yes. >> The big question I have for you is, Belichick. Do you ever question Has your belief in him as the greatest coach of all time wavered, you know, now that- No. Okay. >> Never. >> Weigh in on that. >> Never, he says >> Still the Goat. >> I'll give you my best. You know, never In Bill we trust. >> Okay. Still. >> All right >> I, you know, the NFL is a unique property that's designed for parody and is designed, I mean actively designed to not let Mr. Craft and Bill Belichick do what they do every year. I feel privileged as a Boston sports fan that in our worst years we're in the seventh playoff spot. And I have a lot of family in Chicago who would kill for that position, by the way. And you know, they're in perpetual rebuilding. And so look, and I think he, you know the way he's been able to manage the cap and the skill levels, I think we have a top five defense. There's different ways to win titles. And if I, you know, remember in Brady's last title with Boston, the defense won us that Super Bowl. >> Well thanks for weighing in on that because there's a lot of crazy talk going on. Like, 'Hey, if he doesn't beat Arizona, he's got to go.' I'm like, what? So, okay, I'm sometimes it takes a good good loyal fan who's maybe, you know, has >> The good news in Boston is we're emotional fans too so I understand you got to keep the long term long term in mind. And we're, we're in a privileged position in Boston. We've got Celtics, we've got Bruins we've got the Patriots right on the edge of the playoffs and we need the Red Sox to get to work. >> Yeah, no, you know they were last, last year so maybe they're going to win it all like they usually do. So >> Fingers crossed. >> Crazy worst to first. >> Exactly. Well you said, in Bill we trust it sounds like from our conversation in BJ we trust from the customers, the partners. >> I hope so. >> Thank you so much BJ, for coming back on theCUBE giving us the lay of the land, what's new, the voice of the customer and how Palo Alto was really differentiated in the market. We always appreciate your, coming on the show you >> Honor and privilege seeing you here. Thanks. >> You may be thinking that you were watching ESPN just now but you know, we call ourselves the ESPN at Tech News. This is Lisa Martin for Dave Vellante and our guest. You're watching theCUBE, the Leader and live emerging in enterprise tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>> From The Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data driven insights from The Cube at ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> The reverse momentum in tech stocks caused by rising interest rates, less attractive discounted cash flow models, and more tepid forward guidance, can be easily measured by public market valuations. And while there's lots of discussion about the impact on private companies and cash runway and 409A valuations, measuring the performance of non-public companies isn't as easy. IPOs have dried up and public statements by private companies, of course, they accentuate the good and they kind of hide the bad. Real data, unless you're an insider, is hard to find. Hello and welcome to this week's "Wikibon Cube Insights" powered by ETR. In this "Breaking Analysis", we unlock some of the secrets that non-public, emerging tech companies may or may not be sharing. And we do this by introducing you to a capability from ETR that we've not exposed you to over the past couple of years, it's called the Emerging Technologies Survey, and it is packed with sentiment data and performance data based on surveys of more than a thousand CIOs and IT buyers covering more than 400 companies. And we've invited back our colleague, Erik Bradley of ETR to help explain the survey and the data that we're going to cover today. Erik, this survey is something that I've not personally spent much time on, but I'm blown away at the data. It's really unique and detailed. First of all, welcome. Good to see you again. >> Great to see you too, Dave, and I'm really happy to be talking about the ETS or the Emerging Technology Survey. Even our own clients of constituents probably don't spend as much time in here as they should. >> Yeah, because there's so much in the mainstream, but let's pull up a slide to bring out the survey composition. Tell us about the study. How often do you run it? What's the background and the methodology? >> Yeah, you were just spot on the way you were talking about the private tech companies out there. So what we did is we decided to take all the vendors that we track that are not yet public and move 'em over to the ETS. And there isn't a lot of information out there. If you're not in Silicon (indistinct), you're not going to get this stuff. So PitchBook and Tech Crunch are two out there that gives some data on these guys. But what we really wanted to do was go out to our community. We have 6,000, ITDMs in our community. We wanted to ask them, "Are you aware of these companies? And if so, are you allocating any resources to them? Are you planning to evaluate them," and really just kind of figure out what we can do. So this particular survey, as you can see, 1000 plus responses, over 450 vendors that we track. And essentially what we're trying to do here is talk about your evaluation and awareness of these companies and also your utilization. And also if you're not utilizing 'em, then we can also figure out your sales conversion or churn. So this is interesting, not only for the ITDMs themselves to figure out what their peers are evaluating and what they should put in POCs against the big guys when contracts come up. But it's also really interesting for the tech vendors themselves to see how they're performing. >> And you can see 2/3 of the respondents are director level of above. You got 28% is C-suite. There is of course a North America bias, 70, 75% is North America. But these smaller companies, you know, that's when they start doing business. So, okay. We're going to do a couple of things here today. First, we're going to give you the big picture across the sectors that ETR covers within the ETS survey. And then we're going to look at the high and low sentiment for the larger private companies. And then we're going to do the same for the smaller private companies, the ones that don't have as much mindshare. And then I'm going to put those two groups together and we're going to look at two dimensions, actually three dimensions, which companies are being evaluated the most. Second, companies are getting the most usage and adoption of their offerings. And then third, which companies are seeing the highest churn rates, which of course is a silent killer of companies. And then finally, we're going to look at the sentiment and mindshare for two key areas that we like to cover often here on "Breaking Analysis", security and data. And data comprises database, including data warehousing, and then big data analytics is the second part of data. And then machine learning and AI is the third section within data that we're going to look at. Now, one other thing before we get into it, ETR very often will include open source offerings in the mix, even though they're not companies like TensorFlow or Kubernetes, for example. And we'll call that out during this discussion. The reason this is done is for context, because everyone is using open source. It is the heart of innovation and many business models are super glued to an open source offering, like take MariaDB, for example. There's the foundation and then there's with the open source code and then there, of course, the company that sells services around the offering. Okay, so let's first look at the highest and lowest sentiment among these private firms, the ones that have the highest mindshare. So they're naturally going to be somewhat larger. And we do this on two dimensions, sentiment on the vertical axis and mindshare on the horizontal axis and note the open source tool, see Kubernetes, Postgres, Kafka, TensorFlow, Jenkins, Grafana, et cetera. So Erik, please explain what we're looking at here, how it's derived and what the data tells us. >> Certainly, so there is a lot here, so we're going to break it down first of all by explaining just what mindshare and net sentiment is. You explain the axis. We have so many evaluation metrics, but we need to aggregate them into one so that way we can rank against each other. Net sentiment is really the aggregation of all the positive and subtracting out the negative. So the net sentiment is a very quick way of looking at where these companies stand versus their peers in their sectors and sub sectors. Mindshare is basically the awareness of them, which is good for very early stage companies. And you'll see some names on here that are obviously been around for a very long time. And they're clearly be the bigger on the axis on the outside. Kubernetes, for instance, as you mentioned, is open source. This de facto standard for all container orchestration, and it should be that far up into the right, because that's what everyone's using. In fact, the open source leaders are so prevalent in the emerging technology survey that we break them out later in our analysis, 'cause it's really not fair to include them and compare them to the actual companies that are providing the support and the security around that open source technology. But no survey, no analysis, no research would be complete without including these open source tech. So what we're looking at here, if I can just get away from the open source names, we see other things like Databricks and OneTrust . They're repeating as top net sentiment performers here. And then also the design vendors. People don't spend a lot of time on 'em, but Miro and Figma. This is their third survey in a row where they're just dominating that sentiment overall. And Adobe should probably take note of that because they're really coming after them. But Databricks, we all know probably would've been a public company by now if the market hadn't turned, but you can see just how dominant they are in a survey of nothing but private companies. And we'll see that again when we talk about the database later. >> And I'll just add, so you see automation anywhere on there, the big UiPath competitor company that was not able to get to the public markets. They've been trying. Snyk, Peter McKay's company, they've raised a bunch of money, big security player. They're doing some really interesting things in developer security, helping developers secure the data flow, H2O.ai, Dataiku AI company. We saw them at the Snowflake Summit. Redis Labs, Netskope and security. So a lot of names that we know that ultimately we think are probably going to be hitting the public market. Okay, here's the same view for private companies with less mindshare, Erik. Take us through this one. >> On the previous slide too real quickly, I wanted to pull that security scorecard and we'll get back into it. But this is a newcomer, that I couldn't believe how strong their data was, but we'll bring that up in a second. Now, when we go to the ones of lower mindshare, it's interesting to talk about open source, right? Kubernetes was all the way on the top right. Everyone uses containers. Here we see Istio up there. Not everyone is using service mesh as much. And that's why Istio is in the smaller breakout. But still when you talk about net sentiment, it's about the leader, it's the highest one there is. So really interesting to point out. Then we see other names like Collibra in the data side really performing well. And again, as always security, very well represented here. We have Aqua, Wiz, Armis, which is a standout in this survey this time around. They do IoT security. I hadn't even heard of them until I started digging into the data here. And I couldn't believe how well they were doing. And then of course you have AnyScale, which is doing a second best in this and the best name in the survey Hugging Face, which is a machine learning AI tool. Also doing really well on a net sentiment, but they're not as far along on that access of mindshare just yet. So these are again, emerging companies that might not be as well represented in the enterprise as they will be in a couple of years. >> Hugging Face sounds like something you do with your two year old. Like you said, you see high performers, AnyScale do machine learning and you mentioned them. They came out of Berkeley. Collibra Governance, InfluxData is on there. InfluxDB's a time series database. And yeah, of course, Alex, if you bring that back up, you get a big group of red dots, right? That's the bad zone, I guess, which Sisense does vis, Yellowbrick Data is a NPP database. How should we interpret the red dots, Erik? I mean, is it necessarily a bad thing? Could it be misinterpreted? What's your take on that? >> Sure, well, let me just explain the definition of it first from a data science perspective, right? We're a data company first. So the gray dots that you're seeing that aren't named, that's the mean that's the average. So in order for you to be on this chart, you have to be at least one standard deviation above or below that average. So that gray is where we're saying, "Hey, this is where the lump of average comes in. This is where everyone normally stands." So you either have to be an outperformer or an underperformer to even show up in this analysis. So by definition, yes, the red dots are bad. You're at least one standard deviation below the average of your peers. It's not where you want to be. And if you're on the lower left, not only are you not performing well from a utilization or an actual usage rate, but people don't even know who you are. So that's a problem, obviously. And the VCs and the PEs out there that are backing these companies, they're the ones who mostly are interested in this data. >> Yeah. Oh, that's great explanation. Thank you for that. No, nice benchmarking there and yeah, you don't want to be in the red. All right, let's get into the next segment here. Here going to look at evaluation rates, adoption and the all important churn. First new evaluations. Let's bring up that slide. And Erik, take us through this. >> So essentially I just want to explain what evaluation means is that people will cite that they either plan to evaluate the company or they're currently evaluating. So that means we're aware of 'em and we are choosing to do a POC of them. And then we'll see later how that turns into utilization, which is what a company wants to see, awareness, evaluation, and then actually utilizing them. That's sort of the life cycle for these emerging companies. So what we're seeing here, again, with very high evaluation rates. H2O, we mentioned. SecurityScorecard jumped up again. Chargebee, Snyk, Salt Security, Armis. A lot of security names are up here, Aqua, Netskope, which God has been around forever. I still can't believe it's in an Emerging Technology Survey But so many of these names fall in data and security again, which is why we decided to pick those out Dave. And on the lower side, Vena, Acton, those unfortunately took the dubious award of the lowest evaluations in our survey, but I prefer to focus on the positive. So SecurityScorecard, again, real standout in this one, they're in a security assessment space, basically. They'll come in and assess for you how your security hygiene is. And it's an area of a real interest right now amongst our ITDM community. >> Yeah, I mean, I think those, and then Arctic Wolf is up there too. They're doing managed services. You had mentioned Netskope. Yeah, okay. All right, let's look at now adoption. These are the companies whose offerings are being used the most and are above that standard deviation in the green. Take us through this, Erik. >> Sure, yet again, what we're looking at is, okay, we went from awareness, we went to evaluation. Now it's about utilization, which means a survey respondent's going to state "Yes, we evaluated and we plan to utilize it" or "It's already in our enterprise and we're actually allocating further resources to it." Not surprising, again, a lot of open source, the reason why, it's free. So it's really easy to grow your utilization on something that's free. But as you and I both know, as Red Hat proved, there's a lot of money to be made once the open source is adopted, right? You need the governance, you need the security, you need the support wrapped around it. So here we're seeing Kubernetes, Postgres, Apache Kafka, Jenkins, Grafana. These are all open source based names. But if we're looking at names that are non open source, we're going to see Databricks, Automation Anywhere, Rubrik all have the highest mindshare. So these are the names, not surprisingly, all names that probably should have been public by now. Everyone's expecting an IPO imminently. These are the names that have the highest mindshare. If we talk about the highest utilization rates, again, Miro and Figma pop up, and I know they're not household names, but they are just dominant in this survey. These are applications that are meant for design software and, again, they're going after an Autodesk or a CAD or Adobe type of thing. It is just dominant how high the utilization rates are here, which again is something Adobe should be paying attention to. And then you'll see a little bit lower, but also interesting, we see Collibra again, we see Hugging Face again. And these are names that are obviously in the data governance, ML, AI side. So we're seeing a ton of data, a ton of security and Rubrik was interesting in this one, too, high utilization and high mindshare. We know how pervasive they are in the enterprise already. >> Erik, Alex, keep that up for a second, if you would. So yeah, you mentioned Rubrik. Cohesity's not on there. They're sort of the big one. We're going to talk about them in a moment. Puppet is interesting to me because you remember the early days of that sort of space, you had Puppet and Chef and then you had Ansible. Red Hat bought Ansible and then Ansible really took off. So it's interesting to see Puppet on there as well. Okay. So now let's look at the churn because this one is where you don't want to be. It's, of course, all red 'cause churn is bad. Take us through this, Erik. >> Yeah, definitely don't want to be here and I don't love to dwell on the negative. So we won't spend as much time. But to your point, there's one thing I want to point out that think it's important. So you see Rubrik in the same spot, but Rubrik has so many citations in our survey that it actually would make sense that they're both being high utilization and churn just because they're so well represented. They have such a high overall representation in our survey. And the reason I call that out is Cohesity. Cohesity has an extremely high churn rate here about 17% and unlike Rubrik, they were not on the utilization side. So Rubrik is seeing both, Cohesity is not. It's not being utilized, but it's seeing a high churn. So that's the way you can look at this data and say, "Hm." Same thing with Puppet. You noticed that it was on the other slide. It's also on this one. So basically what it means is a lot of people are giving Puppet a shot, but it's starting to churn, which means it's not as sticky as we would like. One that was surprising on here for me was Tanium. It's kind of jumbled in there. It's hard to see in the middle, but Tanium, I was very surprised to see as high of a churn because what I do hear from our end user community is that people that use it, like it. It really kind of spreads into not only vulnerability management, but also that endpoint detection and response side. So I was surprised by that one, mostly to see Tanium in here. Mural, again, was another one of those application design softwares that's seeing a very high churn as well. >> So you're saying if you're in both... Alex, bring that back up if you would. So if you're in both like MariaDB is for example, I think, yeah, they're in both. They're both green in the previous one and red here, that's not as bad. You mentioned Rubrik is going to be in both. Cohesity is a bit of a concern. Cohesity just brought on Sanjay Poonen. So this could be a go to market issue, right? I mean, 'cause Cohesity has got a great product and they got really happy customers. So they're just maybe having to figure out, okay, what's the right ideal customer profile and Sanjay Poonen, I guarantee, is going to have that company cranking. I mean they had been doing very well on the surveys and had fallen off of a bit. The other interesting things wondering the previous survey I saw Cvent, which is an event platform. My only reason I pay attention to that is 'cause we actually have an event platform. We don't sell it separately. We bundle it as part of our offerings. And you see Hopin on here. Hopin raised a billion dollars during the pandemic. And we were like, "Wow, that's going to blow up." And so you see Hopin on the churn and you didn't see 'em in the previous chart, but that's sort of interesting. Like you said, let's not kind of dwell on the negative, but you really don't. You know, churn is a real big concern. Okay, now we're going to drill down into two sectors, security and data. Where data comprises three areas, database and data warehousing, machine learning and AI and big data analytics. So first let's take a look at the security sector. Now this is interesting because not only is it a sector drill down, but also gives an indicator of how much money the firm has raised, which is the size of that bubble. And to tell us if a company is punching above its weight and efficiently using its venture capital. Erik, take us through this slide. Explain the dots, the size of the dots. Set this up please. >> Yeah. So again, the axis is still the same, net sentiment and mindshare, but what we've done this time is we've taken publicly available information on how much capital company is raised and that'll be the size of the circle you see around the name. And then whether it's green or red is basically saying relative to the amount of money they've raised, how are they doing in our data? So when you see a Netskope, which has been around forever, raised a lot of money, that's why you're going to see them more leading towards red, 'cause it's just been around forever and kind of would expect it. Versus a name like SecurityScorecard, which is only raised a little bit of money and it's actually performing just as well, if not better than a name, like a Netskope. OneTrust doing absolutely incredible right now. BeyondTrust. We've seen the issues with Okta, right. So those are two names that play in that space that obviously are probably getting some looks about what's going on right now. Wiz, we've all heard about right? So raised a ton of money. It's doing well on net sentiment, but the mindshare isn't as well as you'd want, which is why you're going to see a little bit of that red versus a name like Aqua, which is doing container and application security. And hasn't raised as much money, but is really neck and neck with a name like Wiz. So that is why on a relative basis, you'll see that more green. As we all know, information security is never going away. But as we'll get to later in the program, Dave, I'm not sure in this current market environment, if people are as willing to do POCs and switch away from their security provider, right. There's a little bit of tepidness out there, a little trepidation. So right now we're seeing overall a slight pause, a slight cooling in overall evaluations on the security side versus historical levels a year ago. >> Now let's stay on here for a second. So a couple things I want to point out. So it's interesting. Now Snyk has raised over, I think $800 million but you can see them, they're high on the vertical and the horizontal, but now compare that to Lacework. It's hard to see, but they're kind of buried in the middle there. That's the biggest dot in this whole thing. I think I'm interpreting this correctly. They've raised over a billion dollars. It's a Mike Speiser company. He was the founding investor in Snowflake. So people watch that very closely, but that's an example of where they're not punching above their weight. They recently had a layoff and they got to fine tune things, but I'm still confident they they're going to do well. 'Cause they're approaching security as a data problem, which is probably people having trouble getting their arms around that. And then again, I see Arctic Wolf. They're not red, they're not green, but they've raised fair amount of money, but it's showing up to the right and decent level there. And a couple of the other ones that you mentioned, Netskope. Yeah, they've raised a lot of money, but they're actually performing where you want. What you don't want is where Lacework is, right. They've got some work to do to really take advantage of the money that they raised last November and prior to that. >> Yeah, if you're seeing that more neutral color, like you're calling out with an Arctic Wolf, like that means relative to their peers, this is where they should be. It's when you're seeing that red on a Lacework where we all know, wow, you raised a ton of money and your mindshare isn't where it should be. Your net sentiment is not where it should be comparatively. And then you see these great standouts, like Salt Security and SecurityScorecard and Abnormal. You know they haven't raised that much money yet, but their net sentiment's higher and their mindshare's doing well. So those basically in a nutshell, if you're a PE or a VC and you see a small green circle, then you're doing well, then it means you made a good investment. >> Some of these guys, I don't know, but you see these small green circles. Those are the ones you want to start digging into and maybe help them catch a wave. Okay, let's get into the data discussion. And again, three areas, database slash data warehousing, big data analytics and ML AI. First, we're going to look at the database sector. So Alex, thank you for bringing that up. Alright, take us through this, Erik. Actually, let me just say Postgres SQL. I got to ask you about this. It shows some funding, but that actually could be a mix of EDB, the company that commercializes Postgres and Postgres the open source database, which is a transaction system and kind of an open source Oracle. You see MariaDB is a database, but open source database. But the companies they've raised over $200 million and they filed an S-4. So Erik looks like this might be a little bit of mashup of companies and open source products. Help us understand this. >> Yeah, it's tough when you start dealing with the open source side and I'll be honest with you, there is a little bit of a mashup here. There are certain names here that are a hundred percent for profit companies. And then there are others that are obviously open source based like Redis is open source, but Redis Labs is the one trying to monetize the support around it. So you're a hundred percent accurate on this slide. I think one of the things here that's important to note though, is just how important open source is to data. If you're going to be going to any of these areas, it's going to be open source based to begin with. And Neo4j is one I want to call out here. It's not one everyone's familiar with, but it's basically geographical charting database, which is a name that we're seeing on a net sentiment side actually really, really high. When you think about it's the third overall net sentiment for a niche database play. It's not as big on the mindshare 'cause it's use cases aren't as often, but third biggest play on net sentiment. I found really interesting on this slide. >> And again, so MariaDB, as I said, they filed an S-4 I think $50 million in revenue, that might even be ARR. So they're not huge, but they're getting there. And by the way, MariaDB, if you don't know, was the company that was formed the day that Oracle bought Sun in which they got MySQL and MariaDB has done a really good job of replacing a lot of MySQL instances. Oracle has responded with MySQL HeatWave, which was kind of the Oracle version of MySQL. So there's some interesting battles going on there. If you think about the LAMP stack, the M in the LAMP stack was MySQL. And so now it's all MariaDB replacing that MySQL for a large part. And then you see again, the red, you know, you got to have some concerns about there. Aerospike's been around for a long time. SingleStore changed their name a couple years ago, last year. Yellowbrick Data, Fire Bolt was kind of going after Snowflake for a while, but yeah, you want to get out of that red zone. So they got some work to do. >> And Dave, real quick for the people that aren't aware, I just want to let them know that we can cut this data with the public company data as well. So we can cross over this with that because some of these names are competing with the larger public company names as well. So we can go ahead and cross reference like a MariaDB with a Mongo, for instance, or of something of that nature. So it's not in this slide, but at another point we can certainly explain on a relative basis how these private names are doing compared to the other ones as well. >> All right, let's take a quick look at analytics. Alex, bring that up if you would. Go ahead, Erik. >> Yeah, I mean, essentially here, I can't see it on my screen, my apologies. I just kind of went to blank on that. So gimme one second to catch up. >> So I could set it up while you're doing that. You got Grafana up and to the right. I mean, this is huge right. >> Got it thank you. I lost my screen there for a second. Yep. Again, open source name Grafana, absolutely up and to the right. But as we know, Grafana Labs is actually picking up a lot of speed based on Grafana, of course. And I think we might actually hear some noise from them coming this year. The names that are actually a little bit more disappointing than I want to call out are names like ThoughtSpot. It's been around forever. Their mindshare of course is second best here but based on the amount of time they've been around and the amount of money they've raised, it's not actually outperforming the way it should be. We're seeing Moogsoft obviously make some waves. That's very high net sentiment for that company. It's, you know, what, third, fourth position overall in this entire area, Another name like Fivetran, Matillion is doing well. Fivetran, even though it's got a high net sentiment, again, it's raised so much money that we would've expected a little bit more at this point. I know you know this space extremely well, but basically what we're looking at here and to the bottom left, you're going to see some names with a lot of red, large circles that really just aren't performing that well. InfluxData, however, second highest net sentiment. And it's really pretty early on in this stage and the feedback we're getting on this name is the use cases are great, the efficacy's great. And I think it's one to watch out for. >> InfluxData, time series database. The other interesting things I just noticed here, you got Tamer on here, which is that little small green. Those are the ones we were saying before, look for those guys. They might be some of the interesting companies out there and then observe Jeremy Burton's company. They do observability on top of Snowflake, not green, but kind of in that gray. So that's kind of cool. Monte Carlo is another one, they're sort of slightly green. They are doing some really interesting things in data and data mesh. So yeah, okay. So I can spend all day on this stuff, Erik, phenomenal data. I got to get back and really dig in. Let's end with machine learning and AI. Now this chart it's similar in its dimensions, of course, except for the money raised. We're not showing that size of the bubble, but AI is so hot. We wanted to cover that here, Erik, explain this please. Why TensorFlow is highlighted and walk us through this chart. >> Yeah, it's funny yet again, right? Another open source name, TensorFlow being up there. And I just want to explain, we do break out machine learning, AI is its own sector. A lot of this of course really is intertwined with the data side, but it is on its own area. And one of the things I think that's most important here to break out is Databricks. We started to cover Databricks in machine learning, AI. That company has grown into much, much more than that. So I do want to state to you Dave, and also the audience out there that moving forward, we're going to be moving Databricks out of only the MA/AI into other sectors. So we can kind of value them against their peers a little bit better. But in this instance, you could just see how dominant they are in this area. And one thing that's not here, but I do want to point out is that we have the ability to break this down by industry vertical, organization size. And when I break this down into Fortune 500 and Fortune 1000, both Databricks and Tensorflow are even better than you see here. So it's quite interesting to see that the names that are succeeding are also succeeding with the largest organizations in the world. And as we know, large organizations means large budgets. So this is one area that I just thought was really interesting to point out that as we break it down, the data by vertical, these two names still are the outstanding players. >> I just also want to call it H2O.ai. They're getting a lot of buzz in the marketplace and I'm seeing them a lot more. Anaconda, another one. Dataiku consistently popping up. DataRobot is also interesting because all the kerfuffle that's going on there. The Cube guy, Cube alum, Chris Lynch stepped down as executive chairman. All this stuff came out about how the executives were taking money off the table and didn't allow the employees to participate in that money raising deal. So that's pissed a lot of people off. And so they're now going through some kind of uncomfortable things, which is unfortunate because DataRobot, I noticed, we haven't covered them that much in "Breaking Analysis", but I've noticed them oftentimes, Erik, in the surveys doing really well. So you would think that company has a lot of potential. But yeah, it's an important space that we're going to continue to watch. Let me ask you Erik, can you contextualize this from a time series standpoint? I mean, how is this changed over time? >> Yeah, again, not show here, but in the data. I'm sorry, go ahead. >> No, I'm sorry. What I meant, I should have interjected. In other words, you would think in a downturn that these emerging companies would be less interesting to buyers 'cause they're more risky. What have you seen? >> Yeah, and it was interesting before we went live, you and I were having this conversation about "Is the downturn stopping people from evaluating these private companies or not," right. In a larger sense, that's really what we're doing here. How are these private companies doing when it comes down to the actual practitioners? The people with the budget, the people with the decision making. And so what I did is, we have historical data as you know, I went back to the Emerging Technology Survey we did in November of 21, right at the crest right before the market started to really fall and everything kind of started to fall apart there. And what I noticed is on the security side, very much so, we're seeing less evaluations than we were in November 21. So I broke it down. On cloud security, net sentiment went from 21% to 16% from November '21. That's a pretty big drop. And again, that sentiment is our one aggregate metric for overall positivity, meaning utilization and actual evaluation of the name. Again in database, we saw it drop a little bit from 19% to 13%. However, in analytics we actually saw it stay steady. So it's pretty interesting that yes, cloud security and security in general is always going to be important. But right now we're seeing less overall net sentiment in that space. But within analytics, we're seeing steady with growing mindshare. And also to your point earlier in machine learning, AI, we're seeing steady net sentiment and mindshare has grown a whopping 25% to 30%. So despite the downturn, we're seeing more awareness of these companies in analytics and machine learning and a steady, actual utilization of them. I can't say the same in security and database. They're actually shrinking a little bit since the end of last year. >> You know it's interesting, we were on a round table, Erik does these round tables with CISOs and CIOs, and I remember one time you had asked the question, "How do you think about some of these emerging tech companies?" And one of the executives said, "I always include somebody in the bottom left of the Gartner Magic Quadrant in my RFPs. I think he said, "That's how I found," I don't know, it was Zscaler or something like that years before anybody ever knew of them "Because they're going to help me get to the next level." So it's interesting to see Erik in these sectors, how they're holding up in many cases. >> Yeah. It's a very important part for the actual IT practitioners themselves. There's always contracts coming up and you always have to worry about your next round of negotiations. And that's one of the roles these guys play. You have to do a POC when contracts come up, but it's also their job to stay on top of the new technology. You can't fall behind. Like everyone's a software company. Now everyone's a tech company, no matter what you're doing. So these guys have to stay in on top of it. And that's what this ETS can do. You can go in here and look and say, "All right, I'm going to evaluate their technology," and it could be twofold. It might be that you're ready to upgrade your technology and they're actually pushing the envelope or it simply might be I'm using them as a negotiation ploy. So when I go back to the big guy who I have full intentions of writing that contract to, at least I have some negotiation leverage. >> Erik, we got to leave it there. I could spend all day. I'm going to definitely dig into this on my own time. Thank you for introducing this, really appreciate your time today. >> I always enjoy it, Dave and I hope everyone out there has a great holiday weekend. Enjoy the rest of the summer. And, you know, I love to talk data. So anytime you want, just point the camera on me and I'll start talking data. >> You got it. I also want to thank the team at ETR, not only Erik, but Darren Bramen who's a data scientist, really helped prepare this data, the entire team over at ETR. I cannot tell you how much additional data there is. We are just scratching the surface in this "Breaking Analysis". So great job guys. I want to thank Alex Myerson. Who's on production and he manages the podcast. Ken Shifman as well, who's just coming back from VMware Explore. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight help get the word out on social media and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at SiliconANGLE. Does some great editing for us. Thank you. All of you guys. Remember these episodes, they're all available as podcast, wherever you listen. All you got to do is just search "Breaking Analysis" podcast. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. Or you can email me to get in touch david.vellante@siliconangle.com. You can DM me at dvellante or comment on my LinkedIn posts and please do check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for Erik Bradley and The Cube Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching. Be well. And we'll see you next time on "Breaking Analysis". (upbeat music)

>>We're seeing green here at Vemo in 2022, you're watching the cube, Dave ante and David Nicholson wrapping up our second day of coverage. Dave, good show. Good to be, you know, again, good to be back. This is our third show in a row. We're a Cuban as well. So the cube is, is out there, but same every, every show we go to so far has been most of the people here haven't been out in two plus years. Yeah. Right. And, and, and they're like, Hey, let's go. Let's hug. Let's shake. I got my red band on cuz we've been on a lot of shows or just being careful <laugh> um, you know, Hey, but it's great to see people back, uh, >>Absolutely >>Such a different vibe than virtual virtual sucks. Everybody hates it now, but now it's going hybrid. People are trying to figure that out. Yeah. Uh, but it's, it's in your view, what's different. What's the same >>In terms of, uh, in person versus hybrid kind of what's happened since what's >>Different being here now versus say 2019, not that you were here in 2019, but a show in 2019. >>I, I think there's right now, there's a certain sense of, uh, of appreciation for the ability to come and do this. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, >>As opposed to on we or oh, another show, right? >>Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And, and, uh, a personal opinion is that, um, I think that the hybrid model moving forward is going to end up being additive. I don't know that I don't, you know, people say we'll never go back to having in person the way we did before. Um, I'm holding out hope that that's not the case because I, I think so there's so much value to the kinds of conversations that we have, not only here on the set with folks in person, but just the hallway conversations, uh, the dinner conversations, um, those are so critical, uh, not only with between vendors and customers, but between different business units. Um, you know, I, I, I came into this thinking, you know, I know Veeam very well. I've known them since the beginning. Um, but you think I'm going to a conference to talk about backup software and it wasn't like that at all. I mean, this is, this is an overarching, very, very interesting subject to cover. So how is it different? I think people are appreciative. I wouldn't say we're backed full throttle a hundred percent, um, uh, back in the game yet. But, uh, but we we're getting there. Some >>Of the highlights Veeam now, number one, statistical tie for first place in revenue. There aren't a lot of segments, especially in storage where Dell is not number one, I guess technically Dell is like, I don't know, half a percentage point ahead, but Veeam's gonna blow by that. Unless Dell gets its data, >>Protect me as the luxury of focus, they can focus >>Like a laser on it focus. Right? That, that we, we saw this in the P PC where focused, we saw Dell's ascendancy cuz they were focused on PCs, right? Yeah. We saw Seagate on dis drives Intel and microprocesors Oracle on databases and, and, and Veeam applied that model to what they call modern data protection. Um, and, and the, so the reason why we think they're gonna go past is they growing at 20 plus percent each year. And, and I can almost guarantee Dell's data protection business isn't although it's been in a, I, I sense a downward slope lately, they don't divulge that data. Um, but if they were growing nicely, they would be talking about it. So I think they've been kind of hiding that ball, but Dell, you know, you can't count those guys out they're baby. >>No, you can't. And there's always >>A, they don't like to lose. They get that EMC DNA still in >>There. Yeah. You take, you can, you might take your eye off the ball for a little while to focus on other things. But uh, I think it'll be healthy for the industry at large, as Veeam continues to take market share. There's definitely gonna be pushback from, from others in the field, but >>The pure software play. Um, and you know that no hardware agenda thing and all that I think is, is clearly in Veeam's favor. Uh, but we'll see. I mean, Dell's got other, other strengths as do others. I mean, this is, this is, let's not forget this, this, this market is crowded and getting kind. I mean, you got, you got other players, new, new entrants, like cohesive in Rubrik Rubic, by the way is the one I was kind of referring to. That seems to be, you go to their LinkedIn, they seem to be pivoting to security. I was shocked when I saw that. I'm like, wow, is that just like a desperation move? Is that a way to get your valuation up? Is that, is there something I'm missing? I, I don't know. I haven't talked to those guys in a little bit, need to get, get there, but cause he and Rubrik couldn't get to IPO prior to, uh, you know, the, the, the, the, the tech sell off the tech lash. >>If you will Veeam, didn't need toves. We have 30% EBITDA and, and has had it for a while. So they've been, they caught lightning in a bottle years ago, and then now they got the inside capital behind them. Um, you got new entrance, like, like Kuo, you got com. Vault is out there. You still got, you know, Veritas is still out there competing and you know, a number of other, you get you got is wherever HP software landed in, in the MicroStrategy, uh, micro strategy. <laugh> um, no not micro strategy anyway, in that portfolio of companies that HP sold its software business to, you know, they're still out there. So, you know, a lot of ways to, to buy backup and recovery software, but these guys being the leader is no surprise. >>Yeah. You know, it's, I, I, I have to say it to me. It's a classic story of discipline >>Microfocus, sorry, >>Microfocus. Yeah, that's right. That's right. You know, it's funny. I, I, I could see that logo on a, I know I've got a notebook at home. Um, but, but theme is a classic example of well disciplined growth where you're not playing the latest buzzword game and trying to create adjacent businesses that are really, that might sound sexy, but have nothing to do with your core. They've been very, very disciplined about their approach, starting with, you know, looking at VMFS and saying, this is what we're gonna do, and then branching out from there in a logical way. So, so they're not out ahead of the tips of their skis in a way that some others have have gotten. And those, you know, sometimes swinging for the fence is great, but you can strike out that way also. And they've been hitting, you know, you could say they've been hitting singles and doubles just over and over and over again for years now. Well, that's been a great strategy. >>You've seen this a lot. I mean, I, I think you watched this at EMC when you were there as you, it was acquisitions to try to keep the growth up. It was, it was great marketing. I mean, unbelievable marketing cloud meets big data. Oh yeah. And you'd hear on CNBC. AMC is the cloud company. You're like, eh, fucking have a cloud. So, so you, you you've seen companies do that to your point about getting ahead of your skis. VMs never done that EMS like, eh, this is the product that works great. Yeah. Customers love it. They buy it, you know, we got the distribution channel set up and so that's always been, been, been part of their DNA. Um, and I think the other piece is putting meat on the bone of the tagline of modern data protection. When I first heard that I'm like, mm, okay. >>But then when you peel the onion on that, the core is back up in recovery, a lot of focus on recovery. And then the way they, I remember it was there in the audience when they announced, you know, support for bare metal, people went crazy. I'm like, wow, okay. They cuz they used to say, oh, never virtualization forever. Okay. So they beat that drum and you never say never in this business, do you, and then moving on to cloud and hybrid and containers and we're hearing about super cloud now, and maybe there'll be an edge use case there it's still unclear what that pattern is. You've talked about that with Zs, but it's not clear to me where you put your muscle yet in, um, in edge, but really being able to manage all that data that is people talk about data management that starts to be data management. And they've got a footprint that enables 'em to do that. >>Yeah. And, and I'd like to see that same discipline approach. That's gotten them here to continue no need to get on board a hype cycle. Um, what I really love from a business execution perspective from Veeam is the fact that they know their place in terms of the, their strategic advisory role for end user customers and their places largely in partnership with folks in the channel partners, large and small, um, in a couple of the conversations we had over the last few days, we talked about this idea that there are fewer and fewer seats at the table. Uh, working with customers, customers can't have 25 strategic vendor partners and a lot of smaller niche players that focus on something even as important as backup will pretend that they are, that they hold the same sort of strategic weight as a hyperscale cloud provider. Does they pretend that they're gonna be there in the CX O meetings? Um, when they're not Veeam knows exactly how to best leverage what they do with customers and that's through partners in the channel. >>The other thing is, um, new CEO, a non Eron, uh, the fifth CEO, I think I'm correct. Is that right at, at VE yes. Um, so two founders, uh, and then when Peter McKay came on, he was co CEO. Um, and then, um, yep. And let's see, I think yep. You the fifth. Okay. So each of the CEOs kind of had their own mark. Right. Um, and we asked an on in the analyst thing, what do you want your legacy to be? And I, I loved his answer. He's like, this is a fragmented business with a lot of adjacencies and we are the leader in revenue, but we only have 12% revenue share. I want to take that to 25%, 40%. That's like EMC at 30 plus percent of the storage market, Cisco of 60% of the networking market. Wow. If anybody could ever get there, but so 25 to 30% of a market that's that's big. Yeah. I liked his demeanor thought he had a really good style philosophy. Well-spoken well spoken. So new leadership, obviously insight brought him in to take them to the next level. Um, and, and really drive. I gotta believe get ready for IPO. We kind of admitted that. >>Yeah. And I, and IPO for them, one thing he mentioned is that, um, in this case, this is not an IPO let's high five and go to Vegas and get table service because now we finally have money. Uh, they're not doing, you know, obviously an injection in capital from an IPO is always a good thing or should be a good thing if handled properly, but that's not their primary driver. So it'll be very interesting to see if they can hit the timing. Right. Um, how that, how that works out >>Well and, and bill large is his was predecessor. Uh, he, he, he took over, uh, once the company, excuse me, went private. Um, >>Yeah, that phone backed up. >>I still good in the mic once the company went private, uh, well, no, they were always private. Once they got acquired for five plus billion dollars from inside capital, um, they, they put bill in charge, perfect choice for the transition. And it was like, okay, bill. It's like, when you, my brother's a sailor. He says, Hey, take, take the wheel, see that lighthouse or see that tree go for it, keep it on track. And that's what bill did. Perfect. And he knew the company knew where all the skeletons were buried and, and was perfect. Perfect transition for that. Now they're bringing in somebody who they feel can take it to the next level. They're at a billion. He said he could see 5 billion and, and beyond. So that's kind of cool. Um, the other thing was ecosystem as companies got a really robust ecosystem, all the storage array vendors came on. >>The, the, the backup appliance companies, you know, came on to the cube and had a presence here. Why? Because this is where all the customers are. This is the leader in backup in recovery. Yeah. They all want to partner with that leader. Now they're at out the other shows as well, uh, for the Veeam competitors, but frankly, Veeam, Veeam competitors. They don't have, like you said, they're pure play. Many of them don't have a show like this, or it's a smaller event. Um, and so they gotta be here. Uh, and I think the, the, the other thing was the ransomware study. What I really liked about Veeam is they not only just talked about it, they not only talked about their solution. They sh they did deep dive surveys and shared a ton of data with guys that knew data. Um, Dave Russell and Jason Buffington, both former analysts, Russell was a Gartner very well respected top Gartner analyst for years. Jason buff, Buffington at ESG who those guys did always did some really good, still do deep research. So you had them representing that data, but sharing it with the community, of course, it's, it's gonna be somewhat self-serving, but it wasn't as blatant. It that wasn't nearly as blatant as I often see with these surveys, gender surveys, I'll look at 'em. I can tell within like, seconds, whether it's just a bunch of marketing, you know, what, or there's real substance. Yeah. And this one had real substance to >>It. Yeah. And it's okay. When substance supports your business model. >>Yeah. Cool. >>It's great. Good >>Marketing. But yeah, as an best marketing, I'm not gonna use it. The whole industry can use this and build on it. Yeah. I think there were a lot of unanswered questions. I, what I love about Vema is they're going back and they, they did it in February. They, they updated it just recently. Now they're going back and doing more cuz they want to get it by country. So they're making investments. And then they're sharing that with the industry. I love that. >>It'll be interesting to see if they continue it over time, how things change if things change. Um, one of the things that we really didn't talk a lot about is, uh, and you know, it's, I know it's talked about behind closed doors, um, this idea of, uh, stockpiling day zero exploits, and the fact that a lot of these, these >>Things, >>A lot of these problems arguably could have been headed off, had our taxpayer funded organizations, shared information with private industry in a more timely fashion. Um, um, we had, um, uh, uh, was it, uh, Gina from AWS who gave the example of, uh, the not Petia, uh, experience in the hospital environment. And that came directly out of frankly a day zero exploit that the NSA had identified years earlier within Microsoft's operating system. And, uh, somehow others got ahold of that and used it for nefarious means. So the intent to stockpile and hang onto these things is always, um, noble, but sometimes the result is, uh, less than desirable. So that's, it'll be an interesting conversation. >>We'd be remiss if we didn't mention the, the casting acquisition, the, the, the container data protection, small piece of the business today. Uh, but strategic in the sense that, yeah, absolutely. If you want to appeal to developers, if, if, if, if, if you want to be in the cloud, you know, you better be able to talk containers generally in Kubernetes specifically. So they gotta play there as well. >>Well, they, they, they hit virtualization cloud containers. Maybe I'm missing something in between, but they seem to be >>Ransomware >>Catching waves effectively. Yeah. Ransomware, uh, catching waves effectively, uh, again, not in an artificial buzzword driven way, but in a legitimate disciplined business growth approach that, uh, that's impressive. >>And I, and I think Danny mentioned this, we, he said we've been a PLG product led growth company. Um, and I think they're evolving now. We talked about platforms versus product. We still got still a product company. Uh, but they're bill wants to build out a Supercloud. So we're watching that very closely. I, I think it is a thing. You got a lot of grief for the term, super cloud. Some people wince at it, but it's, there's something brewing. There's something different. That's not just cloud public cloud, not hybrid cloud, not private cloud it's across cloud it's super cloud. All right, Dave, Hey, it was a pleasure working with you this week. Always kind of funny. I mean, we're, the crew was out in, uh, in Valencia, Spain. Yeah. Uh, they'll in fact, they'll be broadcasting, I believe all the way through Friday. Uh, that's an early morning thing for the, uh, for the west coast and, but east coast should be able to catch that easily. >>Of course you can all check out all the replays on the cube.net, also YouTube, youtube.com/silicon angle go to wikibon.com. There's some, you know, research there I publish every week and, and others do, uh, as well, maybe not as frequently, but, uh, we have a great relationship with ETR. I'm gonna poke into some data protection stuff in their survey. See if I can find some interesting, uh, data there. And don't forget to go to Silicon an angle.com, which is all the news. This is the cube, our flagship production we're out at VEON 2022. Thanks for watching.