(upbeat music) >> Welcome, everyone, to this CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John Furrier, host of the CUBE. We're here to talk about the state of MarTech and AI. We're here with the co-founder and head of AI for Blueshift, Manyam Mallela. Welcome to the CUBE, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you, John. Thank you for having me, excited to chat with you. >> Blueshift is a company you've co-founded with a couple other co-founders and you guys have a stellar pedigree going in data AI back before it was fashionable, in the old days, Web 1.0, if you want to call it that. So, you know, we know what you guys have been doing in your careers. Now you got a company on the cutting edge, solving problems for customers as they transition from this new, new way of doing things where users have data and power and control, customers are trying to be more authentic, got walled gardens emerging everywhere but that we're supposed to be away from walled gardens. So there's a whole set of new patterns, new expectations and new behaviors. So all this is challenging, but yet it's an opportunity. So I want to get into it. What is your vision? And what's your view on the MarTech today and AI, and how do you guys fit into that, that story? >> Yeah. Great question, John. We are still in the very early innings of where every digital experience is informed, both creatively from the marketing side of our organization, as well as the AI doing the heavy lifting under the herd to be able to create those experience at scale. And I think today every digital customer and every user out there are leaving a trail of very rich, very frequent interaction data with their brands and organizations that they interact with. You know, if you look at each of us, many, many moments and hours of our digital lives are with these interactions that we do on screens and devices, and that leaves a rich trail of data. And brands that are winning, brands that we want to interact with more, have user privacy and user safety at the center of it. And then they build that authentic connection from there on. And, you know, just like when we log into our favorite streaming shows or streaming applications, we want to see things that are relevant to us. They, in some sense, knowing kind of intimately our preferences or changing taste. And how does a brand or organization react to that but still make room for that authentic connection? >> It's an awesome opportunity. And it's a lot of challenges, and it's just starting, I totally agree. Let me ask you a question, Manyam, if you don't mind. How did you guys come up with Blueshift? I know you guys have been in this game before it was fashionable, so to speak, but you know, solving Web 1.0, 2.0 problems. And then, you know, Walmart Labs, everyone knows the history of Walmart and how fast they were with inventory and how they used data. You have that kind of trajectory. When you saw this opportunity, was it like the team was saying, wow, look at this, it's right in our wheelhouse, or, how did you guys get here, and then how did it all come together? >> Yeah, thanks for offering me an opportunity to share our personal journey. You know, I think prior to starting Blueshift with my co-founders, who I worked with for almost the past 20 years of my life, we were at a company called Kosmix, which was a Silicon Valley, early AI pioneer. We were doing semantics search, and in 2011, Walmart started their Silicon Valley innovation hub, Walmart Labs, with the acquisition of Kosmix. And, you know, we went into Walmart Labs, and until then they were already an e-commerce leader. They had been practicing e-commerce for better part of 12 years prior to that, but they're certainly you know, behind, compared to their peers, right? And the peers to be named! (laughs) But, they saw this lack of what it is that they were doing so well in brick and mortar that they're not able to fully get there on the digital side. And, you know, this was almost a decade ago. And when they brought in our team with a lot of AI and data systems at scale, building things at the cutting edge, you know, we went into it a little bit naively, thinking, you know, hey, we are going to solve this problem for Walmart scale in three months. (laughs) But it took us three years to build those systems of engagement. Despite Walmart having an enormous amount of resources being the number one retailer in the world and the data and the resource at their disposal, we had to rethink a lot of assumptions and the trends that were converging were, you know, uses for interacting with them across multiple formats and channels. And both offline and online, the velocity and complexity of the data was increasing. All the marketing and merchandising teams said even a millisecond delay for me is unconscionable. And how do you get fresh data and activated at the moment of experience, without delay, this significant challenge at scale? And that's what we solve for our organizations. >> It really is the data problem. It's a scale problem. It's all that. And then having the software to have that AI predictive and, you know, it's omnichannel when you think about it, in that retail and that brick and mortar term used for physical space and digital converging. And we saw the pandemic pull forward this same dynamic where events and group behaviors and just interactions were all converging. So this line between physical and digital is now blurred, completely blended, the line between customer experience and marketing has been erased, and you guys are the center of this. What does it mean for the customer? Because the customers out there, your customers, or potential customers. They got problems to solved. They're going all digital cloud-native applications, the digital transformation. This is the new normal, and some are on it, are starting it, some are way behind. What are they- What's the situation with the customers? >> Yeah, that's certainly the maturity of, you know, the, each brand and organization along that, you know, both transformation and from transformation to actually thriving in that ecosystem. And how do we actually win, you know, share of mind and then share of, like, that market that they're looking to does take a while. And, and many are, you know, kind of midway through their journey. I think, there was, initially there is a lot of, you know, push towards let's collect all the data that we can but then, you know, how does the actually data becomes something useful that changes experience for Manyam versus John is really that critical moment. And that moment is when, you know, a lot of things come into place. And if I look at, like, the broader landscape, there are certainly lines of powers like Discovery, like Udacity and LendingTree, and Zumper car pods across all these industries. Who would've thought like, you know, all these industries who you would not think of actually as solving a digital engagement problem are now saying that's the key to our success and our growth. >> Yeah. It's absolutely the number one problem. This is the number one opportunity for all businesses, not just verticals here and there, all verticals. So walk me through your typical customer scenario. You know, what are the challenges that they face? You're in the middle of it, you're solving these problems, what are their challenges that they face and how do you guys solve them? >> Absolutely. So I'll talk through two examples, one from a finance industry, one from online learning, you know, o One of our great customers that we partner with is LendingTree. They offer tens of millions of customers' finance products that span from home loans, students loans, auto loans, credits, all of that. And, and let these people come into their website and collect information that is relevant to the loan that they're considering, but engage them in a way for the next period of time. So if you typically think about engagement, it's not just a one interaction, usually that follows a series of steps an organization has to take to be able to explain all their offerings in a way that is digestible and relevant and personalized to each of those millions of customers and actually have them through the funnel and measure it and report on it and make sure that that is the most relevant to them. So in a finance setting that is about consuming credit products, consuming loan products, consuming reporting products in an online context. I'll give you an example of one of our customers, Udacity. Imagine you are a marketing team of two people, and you are in challenged with, how do you engage 20 million students. You're not going to write 20 million communications that are different for each of those students, certainly. I think you need a system to say what did actually all these students come for? How do I learn what they want at this moment in time? What do they want next? If they actually finished something that they started two months ago, would they be eligible for the right course? Maybe today we are talking about self-driving cars. That's the course that I should bring in front of them. And that's only a small segment of the students but someone else maybe on the media and the production side. How do I personalize the experience so that every single step of the way for that student is, you know, created and delivered at scale? And that's kind of the problem that we solve for our brands, which is they have these millions of touchpoint that are, that they have, how do they bring all their data, very fresh and activated at the moment of action? >> So you guys are creating the 10x marketer. I mean, kind of- >> That's right. That's a very (indistinct)- >> 10X engineer, the famous, you're 10X engineer. >> Right. >> You guys are bringing a lot of heavy lifting to short staffs or folks that don't have a data science team or data engineering team. You're kind of bringing that 10x marketing capability. >> Absolutely. I think that's a great way to put it. I call it the mission impossible, which is, you know, you're signing up for the mission impossible, for every marketing team, it's like, now they're like, they are the product managers they're the data scientists, they're the analysts. They are the creator, you know, author, all of that combined into a role. And now you're entrusted with this really massive challenge. And how do you actually get there? And it's that 10x marketer who are embracing these technologies to get there. >> Well, I'm looking forward to challenging though because I can imagine you get a lot of skeptics out there. I don't believe you. It sounds too good to be true. And I want to get to that in the next segment, but I want to ask you about the state of MarTech and AI specifically. MarTech traditionally has been on Web 2.0 standards, DNS, URLs. It's the naming system of the internet. It's the internet infrastructure. So- >> Right. what needs to change to make that scale higher? Does, is there any new abstraction or any kind of opportunities for doing things in just managing you know, tokens that need to be translated? It's hard to do cross to- I mean, there's a lot of problems with Web 2.0 legacy that kind of holds back the promise of high availability of data, privacy, AI, more machine learning, more exposure of data. Can you share your vision on this next layer? >> Absolutely. Yeah, I think, you know, there's a lot of excitement about what Web3 would bring us there in the very early innings of that possibility. But the challenge of, you know, data that leads to authentic experience still remains the same whichever metaverse we might actually interact with a brand name, like, you know, even if I go to a Nike store in the Metaverse, I still need to understand what that customer really prefers and keep up with that customer as they change their preferences. And AI is the key to be able to help a marketer. I call it the, you know, our own group call it like IPA you know, which is ingest all possible data, even from Metaverse, you know, the protocols might change, the formats might change, but then you have to not only have a sense of what happened in the past. I think there are more than enough tools to know what happened. There are only emerging tools to tell you what might happen. How do I predict? So ingest, predict, and then next step is activate. Actually you had to do something with it. How do I activate it, that the experience for you, whether it's Web3 or Web2 changes, and that IPA is kind of our own brew of, you know, AI marketing that we are taking to market. >> And that's the enablement piece, so how does this relate to the customer's data? You guys are storing all the data? Are they coming in? Is there a huge data lake involved? Can I bring in third party data? Does it have to be all be first party? How is that platform-level enabling this new form of customer engagement? >> Absolutely. There's a lot of heavy lifting that the data systems that one has to you know, bring to bear upon the problem, data systems ranging from, you know, distributed search, distributed indexing, low latency systems, data lakes that are built for high velocity, AI machine learning, training model inference, that validation pipeline. And, you know, we certainly leverage a lot of of data lake systems out there, including many of the components that are, you know, provided by our preferred partner, AWS and open source tools. And these data systems are certainly very complex to manage. And for an organization that, with a, you know, 5 to 10 people team of marketers, they're usually short staffed on the, the amount of attention that they get from rest of the organization. And what we have made is that you can ingest a lot more raw data. We do the heavy lifting, but both data management, identity resolution, segmentation, audience building, predictions, recommendations, and then give you also the delivery piece, which is, can I actually send you something? Can I put something in front of the user and measure it and report on it and tell you that, this is the ROI? How do, if all this would be for nothing, if actually you go through all this and there's no real ROI. And we have kind of, you know, our own forester did a total economic impact study with us. And they have found, they have found 781% ROI for implementing Blueshift. And it's a tremendous amount of ROI you get once you are able to reorient your organizations towards that. >> You know, Manyam, one of the problems of being a visionary and a pioneer like you guys are, you're early a lot. And so you must be scratching your head going, oh, the hot buzzword these days is the semantic layer, in Khan, you see snowflake and a bunch of other people kind of pushing this semantic layer. It's basically a data plane essentially for data, right? >> Right. >> And you guys have done that. Been there, done that, but now that's in play, you guys have this. >> That's right. >> You've got all this semantic search built in into the system, all this in data ingestion, it's a full platform. And so I need to ask you how you see this vectoring into the future state of customer engagement. Where, where do you see this intersecting with the organizations you're trying to bring this to? Are they putting more investment in, are they pulling back? Are they, where are, where are they and where are you guys relative to this, this technology? And, and, and, and first of all let's get your reaction to this semantic layer first. >> Right, right. It's a fantastic, you know, as a technologist, I love, you know, kind of the ontology and semantic differences, you know, how, how, you know, data planes, data meshes, data fabrics are put together. And, you know, I saw this, you know, kind of a dichotomy between CIO org and CMO org, right? The CO says like, you know, I have the best data plane, the data mesh, the data fabric. And the CMO says like, but I'm actually trying to accomplish something for this campaign. And they're like, oh, that, does it actually connect the both of pieces? >> So I think, the- >> Yeah? >> The CMO org certainly will need purpose-built applications, on top of the data fabric, on top of the data lakes, on top of the data measures, to be able to help marketing teams both technical and semi-technical to be able to accomplish that. >> Yeah. And then, and the new personas they want turnkey, they want to have it self-service. Again, the 10x marketer is someone with a small staff that can do the staff of hundred people, right? >> That's absolutely- >> So that's where it's going. And this is, this i6s the new normal. >> So, we call them AI marketers. And I think it's a, it's like you're calling a 10x marketer. I think, you know, over time we didn't have, you know this word, business intelligence analyst, but then once the tool are there, then they become business intelligence analysts. I think likewise, once these tools are available then we'll have AI marketers out in the market. >> Well, Manyam, I'd love to do a full, like, one-hour podcast with you. You can go for a long time with these topics given what you guys are working on, how relevant it is, how cool it is right now, and with what you guys have as a team and solution. I really appreciate you coming on the CUBE to chat. For the last minute we have here, give a quick plug for the company, what you guys are up to, size, funding, revenues, what you're looking for. What should people pay attention to? Give the plug. >> Yeah. Yeah, we are a global team, spanning, you know, multiple time zones. You know, we have raised $65 million to date to build out our vision and, you know, over the last eight years of our funding, we have served hundreds of customers and continuing to, you know, take on more. I think, you know, our hope is that over time, the next 10,000 organizations see this as a very much an approachable, you know, problem to solve for themselves, which I think is where we are. AI marketing is real doable, proven ROI. Can we get the next 10,000 customers to embrace that? >> You know, as we always used to say in the kind of web business and search, it's the contextual and the behavioral, you got to bring 'em together here. You got all that technology for the, for the sites and applications for the behavior and converting that contextually into value. Really compelling solution. Thanks for sharing your insight. >> Yeah. Thank you John, really appreciate this. >> Okay, this is CUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier here in Palo Alto. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, everyone and welcome to theCUBE presentation of the AWS startup showcase, data as code. This is season two, episode two of the ongoing series covering the exciting startups from the AWS ecosystem. Here we're talking about operationalizing the data lake. I'm your host, John Furrier, and my guest here is Mark Lyons, VP of product management at Dremio. Great to see you, Mark. Thanks for coming on. >> Hey John, nice to see you again. Thanks for having me. >> Yeah, we were talking before we came on camera here on this showcase we're going to spend the next 20 minutes talking about the new architectures of data lakes and how they expand and scale. But we kind of were reminiscing by the old big data days, and how this really changed. There's a lot of hangovers from (mumbles) kind of fall through, Cloud took over, now we're in a new era and the theme here is data as code. Really highlights that data is now in the developer cycles of operations. So infrastructure is code-led DevOps movement for Cloud programmable infrastructure. Now you got data as code, which is really accelerating DataOps, MLOps, DatabaseOps, and more developer focus. So this is a big part of it. You guys at Dremio have a Cloud platform, query engine and a data tier innovation. Take us through the positioning of Dremio right now. What's the current state of the offering? >> Yeah, sure, so happy to, and thanks for kind of introing into the space that we're headed. I think the world is changing, and databases are changing. So today, Dremio is a full database platform, data lakehouse platform on the Cloud. So we're all about keeping your data in open formats in your Cloud storage, but bringing that full functionality that you would want to access the data, as well as manage the data. All the functionality folks would be used to from NC SQL compatibility, inserts updates, deletes on that data, keeping that data in Parquet files in the iceberg table format, another level of abstraction so that people can access the data in a very efficient way. And going even further than that, what we announced with Dremio Arctic which is in public preview on our Cloud platform, is a full get like experience for the data. So just like you said, data as code, right? We went through waves and source code and infrastructure as code. And now we can treat the data as code, which is amazing. You can have development branches, you can have staging branches, ETL branches, which are separate from production. Developers can do experiments. You can make changes, you can test those changes before you merge back to production and let the consumers see that data. Lots of innovation on the platform, super fast velocity of delivery, and lots of customers adopting it in just in the first month here since we announced Dremio Cloud generally available where the adoption's been amazing. >> Yeah, and I think we're going to dig into the a lot of the architecture, but I want to highlight your point you made about the branching off and taking a branch of Git. This is what developers do, right? The developers use GitHub, Git, they bake branches from code. They build on top of other code. That's open source. This is what's been around for generations. Now for the first time we're seeing data sets being taken out of production to be worked on and coded and tested and even doing look backs or even forward looking analysis. This is data being programmed. This is data as code. This is really, you couldn't get any closer to data as code. >> Yeah. It's all done through metadata by the way. So there's no actual copying of these data sets 'cause in these big data systems, Cloud data lakes and stuff, and these tables are billions of records, trillions of records, super wide, hundreds of columns wide, thousands of columns wide. You have to do this all through metadata operations so you can control what version of the data basically a individual's working with and which version of the data the production systems are seeing because these data sets are too big. You don't want to be moving them. You can't be moving them. You can't be copying them. It's all metadata and manifest files and pointers to basically keep track of what's going on. >> I think this is the most important trend we've seen in a long time, because if you think about what Agile did for developers, okay, speed, DevOps, Cloud scale, now you've got agility in the data side of it where you're basically breaking down the old proprietary, old ways of doing data warehousing, but not killing the functionality of what data warehouses did. Just doing more volume data warehouses where proprietary, not open. They were different use cases. They were single application developers when used data warehouse query, not a lot of volume. But as you get volume, these things are inadequate. And now you've got the new open Agile. Is this Agile data engineering at play here? >> Yeah, I think it totally is. It's bringing it as far forward in as possible. We're talking about making the data engineering process easier and more productive for the data engineer, which ultimately makes the consumers of that data much happier as well as way more experiments can happen. Way more use cases can be tried. If it's not a burden and it doesn't require building a whole new pipeline and defining a schema and adding columns and data types and all this stuff, you can do a lot more with your data much faster. So it's really going to be super impactful to all these businesses out there trying to be data driven, especially when you're looking at data as a code and branching, a branch off, you can de-risk your changes. You're not worried about messing up the production system, messing up that data, having it seen by end user. Some businesses data is their business so that data would be going all the way to a consumer, a third party. And then it gets really scary. There's a lot of risk if you show the wrong credit score to a consumer or you do something like that. So it's really de-risking... >> Even updating machine learning algorithms. So for instance, if the data sets change, you can always be iterating on things like machine learning or learning algorithms. This is kind of new. This is awesome, right? >> I think it's going to change the world because this stuff was so painful to do. The data sets had gotten so much bigger as you know, but we were still doing it in the old way, which was typically moving data around for everyone. It was copying data down, sampling data, moving data, and now we're just basically saying, hey, don't do that anymore. We got to stop moving the data. It doesn't make any sense. >> So I got to ask you Mark, data lakes are growing in popularity. I was originally down on data lakes. I called them data swamps. I didn't think they were going to be as popular because at that time, distributed file systems like Hadoop, and object store in the Cloud were really cool. So what happened between that promise of distributed file systems and object store and data lakes? What made data lakes popular? What made that work in your opinion? >> Yeah, it really comes down to the metadata, which I already mentioned once. But we went through these waves. John you saw we did the EDWs to the data lakes and then the Cloud data warehouses. I think we're at the start of a cycle back to the data lake. And it's because the data lakes this time around with the Apache iceberg table format, with project (mumbles) and what Dremio's working on around metadata, these things aren't going to become data swamps anymore. They're actually going to be functional systems that do inserts updates into leads. You can see all the commits. You can time travel them. And all the files are actually managed and optimized so you have to partition the data. You have to merge small files into larger files. Oh, by the way, this is stuff that all the warehouses have done behind the scenes and all the housekeeping they do, but people weren't really aware of it. And the data lakes the first time around didn't solve all these problems so that those files landing in a distributed file system does become a mess. If you just land JSON, Avro or Parquet files, CSV files into the HDFS, or in S3 compatible, object store doesn't matter, if you're just parking files and you're going to deal with it as schema and read instead of schema and write, you're going to have a mess. If you don't know which tool changed the files, which user deleted a file, updated a file, you will end up with a mess really quickly. So to take care of that, you have to put a table format so everyone's looking at Apache iceberg or the data bricks Delta format, which is an interesting conversation similar to the Parquet and org file format that we saw play out. And then you track the metadata. So you have those manifest files. You know which files change when, which engine, which commit. And you can actually make a functional system that's not going to become a swamp. >> Another trend that's extending on beyond the data lake is other data sources, right? So you have a lot of other data, not just in data lakes so you have to kind of work with that. How do you guys answer the question around some of the mission critical BI dashboards out there on the latency side? A lot of people have been complaining that these mission critical BI dashboards aren't getting the kind of performance as they add more data sources and they try to do more. >> Yeah, that's a great question. Dremio does actually a bunch of interesting things to bring the performance of these systems up because at the end of the day, people want to access their data really quickly. They want the response times of these dashboards to be interactive. Otherwise the data's not interesting if it takes too long to get it. To answer a question, yeah, a couple of things. First of all, from a data source's side, Dremio is very proficient with our Parquet files in an object store, like we just talked about, but it also can access data in other relational systems. So whether that's a Postgres system, whether that's a Teradata system or an Oracle system. That's really useful if you have dimensional data, customer data, not the largest data set in the world, not the fastest moving data set in the world, but you don't want to move it. We can query that where it resides. Bringing in new sources is definitely, we all know that's a key to getting better insights. It's in your data, is joining sources together. And then from a query speed standpoint, there's a lot of things going on here. Everything from kind of Apache, the Apache Avro project, which is in memory format of Parquet and not kind of serialize and de-serialize the data back and forth. As well as what we call reflection, which is basically a re-indexing or pre-computing of the data, but we leave it in Parquet format, in a open format in the customer's account so that you can have aggregates and other things that are really popular in these dashboards pre-computed. So millisecond response, lightning fast, like tricks that a warehouse would do that the warehouses have been doing forever. Right? >> Yeah, more deals coming in. And obviously the architecture we'll get into that now has to handle the growth. And as your customers and practitioners see the volume and the variety and the velocity of the data coming in, how are they adjusting their data strategies to respond to this? Again, Cloud is clearly the answer, not the data warehouse, but what are they doing? What's the strategy adjustment? >> It's interesting when we start talking to folks, I think sometimes it's a really big shift in thinking about data architectures and data strategies when you look at the Dremio approach. It's very different than what most people are doing today around ETL pipelines and then bringing stuff into a warehouse and oh, the warehouse is too overloaded so let's build some cubes and extracts into the next tier of tools to speed up those dashboards for those tools. And Dremio has totally flipped this on a sentence and said, no, let's not do all those things. That's time consuming. It's brittle, it breaks. And actually your agility and the scope of what you can do with your data decreases. You go from all your data and all your data sources to smaller and smaller. We actually call it the perimeter doom and a lot of people look at this and say, yeah, that kind of looks like how we're doing things today. So from a Dremio perspective, it's really about no copy, try to keep as much data in one place, keep it in one open format and less data movement. And that's a very different approach for people. I think they don't realize how much you can accomplish that way. And your latency shrinks down too. Your actual latency from data created to insight is much shorter. And it's not because of the query response time, that latency is mostly because of data movement and copy and all these things. So you really want to shrink your time to insight. It's not about getting a faster query from a few seconds down, it's about changing the architecture. >> The data drift as they say, interesting there. I got to ask you on the personnel side, team side, you got the technical side, you got the non-technical consumers of the data, you got the data science or data engineering is ramping up. We mentioned earlier data engineering being Agile, is a key innovation here. As you got to blend the two personas of technical and non-technical people playing with data, coding with data, we're the bottlenecks in this process today. How can data teams overcome these bottlenecks? >> I think we see a lot of bottlenecks in the process today, a lot of data movement, a lot of change requests, update this dashboard. Oh, well, that dashboard update requires an ETL pipeline update, requires a column to be added to this warehouse. So then you've got these personas, like you said, some more technical, less technical, the data consumers, the data engineers. Well, the data engineers are getting totally overloaded with requests and work. And it's not even super value-add work to the business. It's not really driving big changes in their culture and insights and new new use cases for data. It's turning through kind of small changes, but it's taking too much time. It's taking days, if not weeks for these organizations to manage small changes. And then the data consumers, the less technical folks, they can't get the answers that they want. They're waiting and waiting and waiting and they don't understand why things are so challenging, how things could take so much time. So from a Dremio perspective, it's amazing to watch these organizations unleash their data. Get the data engineers, their productivity up. Stop dealing with some of the last mile ETL and small changes to the data. And Dremio actually says, hey, data consumers, here's a really nice gooey. You don't need to be a SQL expert, well, the tool will write the joints for you. You can click on a column and say, hey, I want to calculate a new field and calculate that field. And it's all done virtually so it's not changing the physical data sets. The actual data engineering team doesn't even really need to care at that point. So you get happier data consumers at the end of the day. They're doing things more self-service. They're learning about the data and the data engineering teams can go do value-add things. They can re-architecture the platform for the future. They can do POCs to test out new technologies that could support new use cases and bring those into the organization. Things that really add value, instead of just churning through backlogs of, hey, can we get a column added or we change... Everyone's doing app development, AB testing, and those developers are king. Those pipelines stream all this data down when the JSON files change. You need agility. And if you don't have that agility, you just get this endless backlog that you never... >> This is data as code in action. You're committing data back into the main brand that's been tested. That's what developers do. So this is really kind of the next step function. I got to put the customer hat on for a second and ask you kind of the pessimist question. Okay, we've had data lakes, I've got data lakes, it's been data lakes around, I got query engines here and there, they're all over the place, what's missing? What's been missing from the architecture to fully realize the potential of a data lakehouse? >> Yeah, I think that's a great question. The customers say exactly that John. They say, "I've got 22 databases, you got to be kidding me. You showed up with another database." Or, hey, let's talk about a Cloud data lake or a data lake. Again, I did the data lake thing. I had a data lake and it wasn't everything I thought it was going to be. >> It was bad. It was data swamp. >> Yeah, so customers really think this way, and you say, well, what's different this time around? Well, the Cloud in the original data lake world, and I'm just going to focus on data lakes, so the original data lake worlds, everything was still direct attached storage, so you had to scale your storage and compute out together. And we built these huge systems. Thousands of thousands of HDFS nodes and stuff. Well, the Cloud brought the separated compute and storage, but data lakes have never seen separated compute and storage until now. We went from the data lake with directed tap storage to the Cloud data warehouse with separated compute and storage. So the Cloud architecture and getting compute and storage separated is a huge shift in the data lake world. And that agility of like, well, I'm only going to apply it, the compute that I need for this question, for this answer right now, and not get 5,000 servers of compute sitting around at some peak moment. Or just 5,000 compute servers because I have five petabytes or 50 petabytes of data that need to be stored in the discs that are attached to them. So I think the Cloud architecture and separating compute and storage is the first thing that's different this time around about data lakes. But then more importantly than that is the metadata tier. Is the data tier and having sufficient metadata to have the functionality that people need on the data lake. Whether that's for governance and compliance standpoints, to actually be able to do a delete on your data lake, or that's for productivity and treating that data as code, like we're talking about today, and being able to time travel it, version it, branch it. And now these data lakes, the data lakes back in the original days were getting to 50 petabytes. Now think about how big these Cloud data lakes could be. Even larger and you can't move that data around so we have to be really intelligent and really smart about the data operations and versioning all that data, knowing which engine touch the data, which person was the last commit and being able to track all that, is ultimately what's going to make this successful. Because if you don't have the governance in place these days with data, the projects are going to fail. >> Yeah, and I think separating the query layer or SQL layer and the data tier is another innovation that you guys have. Also it's a managed Cloud service, Dremio Cloud now. And you got the open source angle too, which is also going to open up more standardization around some of these awesome features like you mentioned the joints, and I think you guys built on top of Parquet and some other cool things. And you got a community developing, so you get the Cloud and community kind of coming together. So it's the real world that is coming to light saying, hey, I need real world applications, not the theory of old school. So what use cases do you see suited for this kind of new way, new architecture, new community, new programability? >> Yeah, I see people doing all sorts of interesting things and I'm sure with what we've introduced with Dremio Arctic and the data is code is going to open up a whole new world of things that we don't even know about today. But generally speaking, we have customers doing very interesting things, very data application things. Like building really high performance data into use cases whether that's a supply chain and manufacturing use case, whether that's a pharma or biotech use case, a banking use case, and really unleashing that data right into an application. We also see a lot of traditional data analytics use cases more in the traditional business intelligence or dashboarding use cases. That stuff is totally achievable, no problems there. But I think the most interesting stuff is companies are really figuring out how to bring that data. When we offer the flexibility that we're talking about, and the agility that we're talking about, you can really start to bring that data back into the apps, into the work streams, into the places where the business gets more value out of it. Not in a dashboard that some person might have access to, or a set of people have access to. So even in the Dremio Cloud announcement, the press release, there was a customer, they're in Europe, it's called Garvis AI and they do AI for supply chains. It's an intelligent application and it's showing customers transparently how they're getting to these predictions. And they stood this all up in a very short period of time, because it's a Cloud product. They don't have to deal with provisioning, management, upgrades. I think they had their stuff going in like 30 minutes or something, like super quick, which is amazing. The data was already there, and a lot of organizations, their data's already in these Cloud storages. And if that's the case... >> If they have data, they're a use case. This is agility. This is agility coming to the data engineering field, making data programmable, enabling the data applications, the data ops for everybody, for coding... >> For everybody. And for so many more use cases at these companies. These data engineering teams, these data platform teams, whether they're in marketing or ad tech or Fiserv or Telco, they have a list. There's a list about a roadmap of use cases that they're waiting to get to. And if they're drowning underwater in the current tooling and barely keeping that alive, and oh, by the way, John, you can't go higher 30 new data engineers tomorrow and bring on the team to get capacity. You have to innovate at the architecture level, to unlock more data use cases because you're not going to go triple your team. That's not possible. >> It's going to unlock a tsunami of value. Because everyone's clogged in the system and it's painful. Right? >> Yeah. >> They've got delays, you've got bottlenecks. you've got people complaining it's hard, scar tissue. So now I think this brings ease of use and speed to the table. >> Yeah. >> I think that's what we're all about, is making the data super easy for everyone. This should be fun and easy, not really painful and really hard and risky. In a lot of these old ways of doing things, there's a lot of risk. You start changing your ETL pipeline. You add a column to the table. All of a sudden, you've got potential risk that things are going to break and you don't even know what's going to break. >> Proprietary, not a lot of volume and usage, and on-premises, open, Cloud, Agile. (John chuckles) Come on, which path? The curtain or the box, what are you going to take? It's a no brainer. >> Which way do you want to go? >> Mark, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate it for being part of the AWS startup showcase data as code, great conversation. Data as code is going to enable a next wave of innovation and impact the future of data analytics. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Yeah, thanks John and thanks to the AWS team. A great partnership between AWS and Dremio too. Talk to you soon. >> Keep it right there, more action here on theCUBE. As part of the showcase, stay with us. This is theCUBE, your leader in tech coverage. I'm John Furrier, your host, thanks for watching. (downbeat music)

[Music] from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston it's the cube covering the IBM thing brought to you by IBM welcome back everybody you're watching the cube and our continuous coverage of IBM think Digital 20/20 events it's we've been wall-to-wall for a couple days now and and we bring in you all the action a bass fall is here here he is the global league for quantum education and open science at IBM quantum gave great to see you thanks for coming on yeah thanks for having me here Dave you're very welcome love the discussion on quantum but I gotta say so I'm reading your bio in your bio I see quantum algorithms experimental quantum computation nanoscale device fabrication cryogenic measurements and quantum software development hardware programming etc so you're obviously qualified to talk about quantum but but how how can somebody learn about quantum do I have to be like a rocket scientist then understand this stuff so Dave this is one of the things that I'm very passionate about it's also my job to make sure that anyone can learn about quantum computing today so primarily what I'm focused on is making sure that you don't need a PhD to program a quantum computer when I was going through my graduate studies trying to learn quantum computing I needed access to a lab so I have to go to graduate school to do this but in 2016 IBM put a quantum computer on the cloud in that dramatically changes the field it allows access to anyone from the world with just an internet connection to program a quantum computer so the question I'm trying to answer on a daily basis now is the question that you asked how do I learn to program a quantum computer well I'm trying to make several resources available for you to do that okay well let's talk about those resources I mean you have quantum you have access to quantum computers I talked to Jamie Thomas the other day she said that you guys it's all available in the IBM cloud I can't even I can't even imagine what the infrastructure behind that looks like but as a user I don't have to see that so how do I get access to this stuff so there are several quantum computers available on the cloud now and every time I think about this it's fascinating to me because I needed access to a lab to access these things but now you don't you can go to quantum computing dot ibm.com and get free access to several quantum computers now the question becomes if I give you this access to the quantum computers how do you learn to program them the software that you use to program them is called kiss kit just like we've made access to the quantum computers open for everyone our software is also open source you can access it by going to Kiska torgue that's QIS ki t org and if you go in particular to Kiska org slash education we've put together a textbook to help you go through everything that you'd learn in a classroom about quantum algorithms and to start programming the real quantum systems yourself so everything's ready for you to program immediately what was the it can you give me the quantity IBM want them - computing URL again yeah that's quantum - computing IBM com once you create an account there you immediately get access to several quantum computers which is an impressive thing to think about the cryogenics that you mentioned earlier the hardware the software all of it is ready for you to take advantage of but I gotta ask you I know it's sort of off topic here but but if I had to look under the covers I'm gonna see some big cryogenic unit with a bunch of cables coming in is that right that's exactly it very cold inside that's right so the way to here's the way to think about it outer space is about 200 times colder than room temperature and the temperature where the chip the quantum chips it's is another 200 times lower than that so we're talking very cold here we're talking only 15 Mille kelvins above absolute zero that's zero point zero one five degrees above absolute zero so it's a very cold system and you'd have several wires that are going down into this coil system to try to communicate with the quantum ship well and what's exciting to me about this whole thing Abe is it is it brings me back to the sort of the early days of computing and the you know huge rooms and now look where we are today and so I would expect that over the next many decades you're going to see sort of similar advanced advances in quantum and being able to actually execute at somewhat higher temperatures and in miniaturization it's very exciting time and we're really obviously at the very very early innings but I want to ask you just in terms of if if I'm a programmer and I'm a Java programmer can I actually come in and start using quantum if you what do I need to know to get started so you need to know two things the first thing is you need to be familiar with any programming language the easiest programming language to pick up today by far is Python so kiss kit is built based on Python so if you're able to quickly catch up with a few things in Python and we have a chapter dedicated to this topic in our textbook that's the first thing the second thing is simply having the ability to learn something new simply being excited about this field once you have those two together you can learn quantum computing very quickly within a few months the question then becomes catching up with the research and reading research papers that can take some time but for us to be able to talk through a quantum program takes only a few a few days of reading let's talk about what some of the folks are doing with quantum we talked again to Jamie Thomas and she gave me some examples not surprisingly you know you saw for instance some some examples in pharmaceutical and to the other obvious industries but then banking came in it's a but what what is it what are people doing with quantum today maybe you could add some color to that primarily most of the working quantum today is focused on understanding how to take problems in industry whether it is to understand how to simulate molecules whether it is to understand how to optimize a financial portfolio taking those problems and mapping them onto a quantum computer so that they can get solved so you'll see various various industries exploring how to take their problems and map onto a quantum computer so one one exciting one that I'm seeing a lot of progress in is chemistry learning how to simulate molecules using these quantum computers as someone with a physics background for me the exciting thing to see here is also how people are using these quantum computers which fundamentally are taking advantage of quantum mechanics to simulate other quantum systems so to understand nature better by using nature itself so this is another exciting progress that we're seeing in the field so exciting both from industry and from educational and science purpose so obviously it's a fascinating field and people would you say with curiosity it can get excited about it but but let's say I actually want you know some some kind of career in part of I mean what well how would people sort of get involved do you see you know on the horizon that this is gonna be something that is actually gonna be a vocation for you know young folks that want to get involved I could not tell you how challenging it is to find people who have the right combination of quantum computing knowledge and classical programming knowledge so in order to be able to take full advantage of the quantum systems today we need people who understand both the hardware and the software to some level and there is an extreme shortage of that kind of talent so the work that I'm focused on is exactly this problem of solving the workforce development problem so we're trying to make sure that people have access to anything that they need in order to be able to program a quantum computer and to learn how to then map their own problems into these quantum computers in the future the question becomes let's say we now understand how to use quantum computers to make financial portfolio optimization every bank in the world is going to want someone to implement this in their systems which immediately creates lots of jobs so this is going to become something that's in demand once it becomes possible on a on a large quantum computer so today is the right time to learn how to work with these quantum systems so that when the time comes that there are industries that are needing quantum skills you're ready to be hired for those positions okay so big skills gap you kind of gave an example in financial services where maybe some of the other things that you hope that that people are going to be able to do over time with these skills I cannot under I cannot over us overstate how important it is to learn how to simulate chemistry problems on these quantum computers that will have impacts anywhere ranging from whether it's drug design whether it's making better efficient solar panels more efficient batteries there are many applications where you'll see impact from these so the there are many industries that can benefit from understanding how to work with quantum computers that's something exciting I'm looking forward to see you know you read in the press that you know we're at least a decade away you know from from quantum being a reality but you're giving some examples where it's sort of here today I feel like it's going to come in layers you know not gonna be one big bang it's gonna come over time but but maybe you could you know frame that for us in terms of how you see this market developing I don't even want to call it a market but just this technology developing into a market what what has to take place and what kind of things can we expect along that journey sure so I think it's very important to keep in mind that quantum computers are fairly young technology so we're improving the technology as we go and there has been dramatic improvement in the technology itself but we're still learning as we go so one of the things that you'll find is that all of the applications work that's being done today is exploring how to take advantage of the quantum computer in some way if I immediately gave you a fully functional perfect quantum computer today you wouldn't even know what to do with it right you need to understand how to map problems on to that quantum computer so in preparation for that time several years away you'll see a lot of people trying to learn how to take advantage of quantum computers today and as they get better and better learning how to take advantage of whatever incremental progress is being made so as much as it seems like quantum computers are several years away many people are learning how to program them today just in preparation for that time when they're ready for use and my understanding is we're gonna get there with you know hybrid models today you're using you know traditional microprocessor technology to sort of read and write data from quantum that's likely going to continue for quite some time maybe maybe indefinitely but but but perhaps not right so Dave the important thing to remember is that a quantum computer works jointly with a classical computer if you ask me the question of how do i optimize my portfolio the numbers that I would need to compute with our classical there's nothing quantum about them these are numbers so there's classical information that you then have to take and map on to the quantum computer and then once the quantum computer is done you have to take the data out of that computer and then turn it back into classical information so you'll always have a quantum computer working jointly with a classical computer the question now is how do you make those two work together so that you can extract some benefit that you couldn't have attained with just the classic what do you see is the big sort of technical challenges that you're paying attention to you paying attention to I mean is it getting more you know qubits is a coherence working at higher temperatures what are the things that you see is as the the scientists are working on to move things forward so one of the things that I can do immediately Dave if you and I agreed right now is we can go to the lab and take a quantum chip and put a thousand cubits on that quantum chip that's fine we can do that immediately the problem that you'll find is that it doesn't matter that you have a thousand cubits if the qubits are not good quality cuteness so the technology should focus on improving the fundamental qualities of the qubits themselves before scaling them up to larger numbers in addition to that as you're scaling to larger and larger numbers new problems come into the picture so making better qubits scaling up seeing how the technology is doing learning new things and then scaling farther up that seems to be the model that's working today so in addition to monitoring the quality of the qubits themselves I'm monitoring within the technology how people are implementing solutions to scaling problems in addition to that another important problem that deserves a lot of attention is the question of how do you make good software that can take problems and map them onto quantum computers in in quantum computing when I say I'm running upon a program really what I'm doing is building a quantum circuit and then running that quantum circuit on the real device well if that circuit has certain operations in it maybe you want to tailor the way you transfer that circuit onto the device in a way that takes full advantage of the device itself but then in order to do that you need to write good software so improvements in the software along with improvements in the quantum technology itself will be how we get to success and at IBM we're focused on finding a metric that wraps all of these things together and it's called quantum volume and we're seeing improvements in the quantum volume of our systems as we go yeah Jamie talked about that you're essentially taking the key metrics and putting them into a you know a single observable metric that obviously you can track over time so I want to ask you about security a lot of people are concerned that the quantum is just going to blow away everything that we know cryptography and all the you know the the passwords and security systems that we we've put in place is that a legitimate concern will quantum you both get us into that problem and take us out of that that problem I wonder if you could talk about that so there are two ways to think about this problem one is just fundamentally if you ask me what does it take to put the the cryptography that has our bank accounts safe over the internet connections that we use it takes roughly about a thousand good cubits okay if I tell you a thousand good cubits that doesn't seem like a lot of work but when you think about it what it really requires is an overhead of about a thousand cubits for each qubit that we have today so the numbers of qubits that you need are in the millions in order to put the the kind of cryptography that we're using today at stake so certainly there's a long way to go that's one aspect of the story the other aspect of the story is that we should never underestimate the progress of technology so even though the time when we can use Shor's algorithm which is the algorithm that can be used to break the cryptographic algorithms like RSA even though that's several years away you still want to be ready for that time and what that means is if you have sensitive information today you need to be making sure that that information itself is protected with quantum resistant cryptographic techniques so that when the time comes you can't use a quantum computer to get back the data from today and break so two perspectives one is we're quite a while away from this kind of danger but at the same time it doesn't mean we should be complacent today we should be taking preparations make sure that our critical information is protected yeah that's so that that makes a lot of sense but when you say we're a ways away or we are we decades away we years away we can you and you quantify that in any reasonable way it's hard to speculate on that number so I'll refrain from giving you a specific timeline just to give you an idea the quantum bits that were in development ten years ago had a coherence time so the amount of time that they can store the quantum information of roughly a hundred times smaller than they are today and ten years ago if you asked people how do we get to a hundred times better qubits nobody would have been able to give you a clear answer you could have guessed some ways but nobody would have been able to tell you we'll get there in ten years but we did so instead of coming up with estimates of timelines that depend on what we know today it's probably a better idea to monitor the technology as it goes and keep adapting we're probably talking this century where we're talking to the century hopefully it is my last mission to enable enough people to learn quantum such that it happens within my life very exciting field a I can't thank you enough for helping us educate the audience and and my and myself personally really I'm I'm so fascinated by this it's something that you know jumper and I and the team have been really focused on and I think it's really time to your point the start digging and start learning you've given us some resources there give us give them give us those two reasons one more time there's there's the IBM site and the the the the the queue kit site use that site what are those again just those to wrap so you can access the quantum computers at quantum - computing ibm.com and once you're there the way to learn how to program these quantum computers is by using kiss kit which you can learn about by going to kiss kit org slash education once here at that education page you can access our textbook which we make open-source it's a textbook that's co-written with professors in the field and is open source so it's continually getting updated you can access that textbook at tisket org slash textbook if you go to our youtube channel you'll find several videos that allow you to also learn very quickly so kiss gets YouTube channel is another great place to look so lots of resources and that's kiss kit with a Q which is why I wrote it that way so alright exact thanks so much it was great to see you stay safe and next time hopefully we'll see you face-to-face and you can draw some some cool pictures to help me understand this even better Dave it was nice talking with you I look forward to learning quantum programming with you yeah Cheers and thank you for watching everybody this is the cubes coverage of the IBM think 2020 digital event experience we'll be right back Brennan for this short break [Music] you

>>Live from San Diego, California at the cube, covering to clock in cloud native con brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem Marsh. >>Welcome back to the cube bumps to men. And my cohost is John Troyer and we're in San Diego for coupon cloud native con 2019. Our fourth year of covering this show over 12,000 in attendance, such growth in the ecosystem. Lots of different projects to talk about, not just Kubernetes, but joining us first time on the program. Longtime watcher Webb Brown, who's the cofounder of cube costs, yet another project here in, in the uh, ecosystem. So thanks so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. All right. So, uh, as a, you know, every time we get a founder on his, you know, tell us a little bit about your background and give us that why of what led to the creation of QT. >>Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, our founding team all worked in infrastructure monitoring at Google for a long time and, you know, working in container orchestration environments, uh, we saw this challenge where teams that were moving and Coopernetti's, uh, were finding themselves, uh, kind of easy to let costs kind of get away from them. Um, there are a lot of moving parts that weren't there before. There's a lot of dynamic aspects that are hard to just really get your, your arms around it. Um, and we found ourselves just really pulled towards helping teams, you know, solve those problems. Um, so yeah, that was a little over a year ago today when we made the plunge and, and here we are. >>Yeah. You know, we remember the days when, you know, public cloud was supposed to be simple and inexpensive and we found out that maybe it's neither of those things necessarily. Um, you know, let's click it a little bit as to, you know, containers, Kubernetes, what's different about this then? Everything else we've been doing in public cloud, uh, for the last, you know, 10. >>Yeah. Yeah. So, so we believe in like, it's ideal state. It still has the ability to be exactly those things, right? Simple and much more affordable. Uh, but we think that there's like tools and elements of this that create risk to the contrary. Um, and we think kind of, you know, there's three things that are different here. Uh, first is that you now have access to these incredibly powerful abstractions that are available at global scale that give you access to these really expensive resources, right? And mistakes can be costly there. Uh, two is you're seeing this like move towards decentralized deployments where you're now having individual product or application engineering teams managing their own applications, even provisioning their own infrastructure and it's a lot higher velocity, a lot higher, like dynamic environments. And then three is just, uh, it's much harder, harder to have visibility when you're in these multitenant environments. Right? You know, you can now have many teams, many even departments shipping on a single VM or a, a S a small set of EMS. >>All right, if you could just give us kind of bumper sticker or sticker on the project itself. How long has it been around? Uh, it fell ball and get hub. I see. And how many people are using it, >>growth, things like that. Absolutely. Absolutely. So we started the project about a year ago. Um, the, the get hub project specifically is for doing cross cloud cost allocation. Um, there's a lot of challenges for like measuring the cost of say, CPU, Ram, storage, et cetera. When you talk about having, you know, spot instances and U S central on AWS versus, you know, committed use in, you know, us central on TCP. So this project helps develop a uniform standard and library to measure costs across all these different environments. Um, hundreds of teams are using it today. Uh, we have integrations with Azure, GCP, AWS, and we also support on-prem Kubernetes clusters. What kind of a minor detail web, but I mean, those costs change week over week as, uh, announcements happen as instances go up and down. I mean, how, how does the project and the community come together to, to even track all that? >>Yeah, no, we know it well. I mean, we're living and breathing and seeing exactly that. Um, and that speaks to, you know, really the complexity here. Um, and the project is designed to support exactly that. So constantly refreshing billing data, uh, dynamically looking at wind pods or jobs are coming up and going down and in real time look at the cost of the nodes that they're actually running on. Um, that is both the beauty and the challenge that we face is things can change so quickly and oftentimes that's for the better. But it's also a challenge to just stay on top of all the changes happening. What does, does the community help assemble that data? Are there AP? I mean, does that, I don't think there's cost API APIs for every cloud or maybe I'm wrong. So we have, we do have a billing API integrations for these three cloud providers. So like I mentioned, AWS, Azure, GCP, uh, the community has been instrumental in finding all these edge cases, right? So like, you know, GPU in this environment versus, you know, storage in this environment. And that's, it's really this long tail of complexity that's really hard for getting this right. And the ecosystem has been absolutely key to finding all those like nooks and crannies to get this just right. Okay. >>Just finishing that thought on, on the billing, you've got billing API in the public cloud, but on the, on premises environment, uh, your mileage may vary, I'm assuming. How does that fit in? >>Yeah, you can, you can think about is kind of bring your own pricing sheet, right? So like we want to support your environment and that could be you care about, you know, just the price of CPU, memory, storage, GPS, etc. But it could also be, you know, you have some centralized ops teams that you want to allocate or like amortize the costs of across all of your tenants in that cluster. So we want to meet you where you are and give you full custom, you know, like inputs to tailor this to your environment. Okay. >>We've talked about the project. There's also a company, a associated with us, help us understand the relationship, the size of the team, uh, kind of the business strategy there. >>Yeah, absolutely. So we have an open core model where our commercial product is built on top of this open source library. You can think about it providing a lot of the, the UI and enterprise management functionality, things like, you know, multi-cloud view, uh, longterm durable storage, SAML integrations, that sort of stuff. Um, you know, we're a small team of engineers right now. Um, you know, all engineers. So we're living and breathing the like actual, you know, writing go, you know, writing code every day. Well, w we're a lot of, we live in a world. Uh, we're maybe, I dunno for post dev ops yet, but there's a lot of dev ops here at this show. You, we've got many flavors of dev ops, dev, sec ops. I mean, is this, who is, and I'm, where I'm going is, is there a dev cost ops developers now have to be worrying about the cost of what they're doing, who, who is paying attention to the, to the, uh, the, the, the cash register. >>The at the top of the coop cross. Yeah. Stack. >> Yeah. I think it's very similar to what you just said is all of this is in flux, right? And there's so many different models, uh, that are, that are working and are constantly evolving. Um, what we typically see is it's uh, someone from the finance org and someone from the dev ops org that is jointly caring about this, this picture. Um, so you know, we have opinions on how this can work really well, but we also love to just let the industry and you know, in different enterprises guide us and kind of meet them where they are. Um, but, but we think that this is going to be continuing to evolve and change for the years to come just cause so much. >>It's such a big challenge. I've talked to some large enterprises that they assign engineering resources to do the financial engineering thing and it seems that number one is the cloud providers should be able to put, put some, you know, pieces in place. Secondly, you know, automation intelligence of, you know, that this entire ecosystem should be able to help. There. Is that, is that really where your, your, your team and your project is focusing to, you know, to take that, I don't want that, you know, you should be building new apps and helping my business not sitting there watching the meters and saying, Oh wait, I need >>yeah. Turn some knobs. Yeah. So I think the first part of what you mentioned is very relevant and, and was kind of the kicker that really pushed us over the edge to start this project start this company is we saw teams that were building their own internal solutions are doing all this ad hoc analysis and Oh by the way, pretty much every team we talked to is doing it differently. So that was what our real inspiration to say, okay, we have to do this. Um, we absolutely see an evolution to just more and more automation and intelligence. But you have to think about cost is not an isolated variable. Cost is very closely linked to reliability and performance, stability, all of these things. So you want to be really thoughtful and really careful when you start handing this stuff over to an algorithm. Right? Because it can mean, you know, performance regressions, it can mean, so we, you know, we absolutely see the industry evolving there. >>Um, we see a lot of teams that then in our view are like, uh, rightfully cautious before kind of handing over the keys, uh, to, to an algorithm or set of algorithms that are going to really dial the lever for them on, you know, the right amount of say, memory, compute, et cetera. I imagine there's also tradeoffs between, uh, engineering resources and cost. Right. I could do it the, the, the S the fast way with one engineer and it, and it might have one cost application. I might, uh, sure I could get my cloud costs down, but it might've taken me, you know, 10 engineer months to do. So. There's all, it's interesting. Is there a conversation in the, like, let's use the community in the broader sense about how to do this kind of capacity management and trade offs. Is there an emerging, you know, it's hard in the OSS world if there's not a project around that you can gather around. >>How do you have a conversation around, you know, costs and engineering trade offs? Yeah, I think we're still really early here and I think there's still huge opportunity. Um, and we just feel that it's incredibly challenging if you just look at the engineering side, you know, there's so much uncertainty to go in and say what's it going to take to move us from, you know, on demand a spot or move us from one reason to the other or one provider to the other. Um, that it's really hard to really put an expected costs on that and do an appropriate ROI. Um, what we've seen that, uh, a lot of teams are able to really easily identify the low hanging fruit where there's a very clear ROI, but these like, you know, marginal decisions, absolutely think there's, uh, more frameworks and more tools that can help teams make those decisions. Well, all right, so >>love to get your personal viewpoint as you're working for a startup. You're here in this massive ecosystem to tell us about that kind of environment, how it is in this cloud native ecosystem. And, uh, you know, any specific things around, you know, the event itself, >>they are welcomed. Yeah. Um, so, you know, we're coming from Google and a lot of our exposure to bigger conferences was, you know, things, things like Google IO and Google specific events. Um, and, and those are amazing to have their own, you know, ecosystem and kind of atmosphere. But, but I've never felt energy like this. I've never seen so many things that are new. So many things are changing all at once. Um, that it just, it's impossible to not get here and be excited by this stuff, right. Of like, um, you know, a lot of us have ideas how things were of all, but I definitely can't claim to like, you know, have really any real conviction around how this broader ecosystem or law that, and that just adds to the excitement of so many things are improving and evolving all at the same time. >>Yeah. Do you feel a small company like yourself can get attention with everything that's going on here? >>Yeah. I mean, what we want to do is we want to be the very best at costs. And capacity and, and, and while that touches on many things, that's really small area. So, you know, our approach is we're not going to be everything. And, and while that can be hard at times, um, we think that's right for a small team. And that's my general advice to anybody that comes to this eco is, is finding a real problem, uh, and be comfortable not being everything for everybody, but go and solve that for a set of users and do it the best. All right. If you could just give you the final word here, what should we be looking for for from Q cost, uh, kind of over the next year? Yeah, I think just, uh, you know, really getting, going deeper and broader in costs and capacity management. >>That's bringing our tools to more platforms, more users, uh, more intelligence and, and automation over time, but just continue to approve a visibility to make this easier and easier for teams to make these appropriate tradeoffs where they invest engineering resource and how they optimize costs. All right, well what, Brian, thanks so much for joining us. We are welcome to welcome. We're glad to welcome cube cost to the cube alumni. Thank you so much, John Troyer. I'm Stu Miniman and check out the cube.net for all the coverage. Uh, we've been for years at this event, uh, in the U S we've also done the European shows and so much more come in three days, wall to wall coverage. Thanks for watching the cube.

>>live from San Francisco. It's the Q covering Micron Insight 2019 >>Not to You, by Micron. >>Welcome back to San Francisco, everybody. This is a Micron Insight 2019 and you're watching the Cube, the leader in live coverage on Day Volonte with my co host, David Floyd. Di Mooney is here. She's the executive director of Micron gives. That's right. Give us the story. What's happening with Micron gives Tech for good. We love the tech for good stories. Tech companies are really taking this seriously. This is not just lip service. Give us the update. >>That's right. That's right. We're so proud of our company that they established a foundation 20 years ago to give back to our global communities. And since then we have given $115 million away and over 10,000 grands. So we have seen a lot of different opportunities in our global communities, and it's just been fabulous that our company supports >>you talk today about water dot or what's going on there. Why is that important in what your role there. >>So what we did is we started taking a look at an organization that we have. We have started recently binning beam or engaged with basic human needs and the grants that those support And when we were taking a look at, Really, what is the primary basic human need? Way discovered? It really is the need for water, and there are millions of people that cannot access this precious resource, and it's just was really surprising to us to think way, take it for granted so much. But yet it is very difficult to get. So as we took a look at this, there was a lot of information that this organization collects. And so we thought, Well, this will be a great opportunity for us to utilize information to enrich and bring in some of our advanced computing expertise along with our philanthropy, help them reach their mission even greater. >>This is huge. I was an event earlier this week, and the keynote speaker was an ultra marathoner, and he literally at one point he ran 4500 miles across the continent of Africa. He and two other ultra runners and people were asking what was The biggest challenge was that the heat was the painting. You know, the biggest challenge was see the challenges of of the community's getting part of the water. That was the number one thing that you know. He left the impression So I mean, this is a huge global problem. >>It really is. And our manufacturing operations were global, and we are located in water scarce areas of the world. And so what really became you know, it's a Micron issue to one of our biggest environmental issues that we talked about, and water dot org's has just been a >>leader in this space, and it has been just fabulous to work with on >>really, they have so much passion and dedication towards this. They've been ableto help. 22 million people already. >>All right, so they're lining up for the main stage. Just give us real quick some of the grants that you guys have. >>Last year at this event, we announced our advancing curiosity, and we announced three recipients last year, and since then we have four more. That's U C L. A. All right T, University of Texas at Austin and University of Washington. >>Awesome. That's great. Listen, congratulations. D on all your great work. We really appreciate your ticket sometime in the queue. All right, and thank you for watching her body. We're back with our next guest from Micron inside. 2019 on the Cube, right back.

>>live from Washington, D. C. It's the Cube covering Bumi World 19. >>Do you buy movie? >>Welcome to the Cube. I'm Lisa Martin at Bumi World 2019 in Washington, D. C. Been here all day. Had some great conversations. One of my favorite things about movie is how impactful they are making their customers. And I'm very pleased to welcome the CEO off American Cancer Society. Kenny Ocular Kenny, Welcome to the Cube. >>Thank you. Happy to be here. >>Really? Enjoyed your keynote this morning on stage with Chris McNab. You know, the American Cancer Society is one of those organizations. I think that that impacts every single person on this planet in some way or another. We've all been touched by cancer, and it's so it's so interesting to look at it as how is technology fueling the American Cancer Society? Your CEO talk to us a little bit about what you guys are doing with booming. How Bhumi is really helping you guys two integrate all these different systems so that an agency is old and historic as a C s is is really transforming to be a modern kind of cloud driven organization. >>Yeah, I think all organizations now are becoming I t organizations. It's their heart, and it's important for us to the American Cancer Society to interact with. Our constituents are volunteers. Our patients are staff right in a digital way. So it is critically important that we are right there with everybody else, uh, interacting with them. And so, whether they're on the go and doing it on their mobile phone or, you know, at the doctor's office talking with their doctor about treatment options that were there to help them get them what they need, an information for their best chance to beat the beat the disease. >>So talk to me first about the business transformation that the American Cancer Society winter before your time there. But first it was. We have all these different organizations different leadership, different I t infrastructure, different financial operations model. Talk to us about first powdered it transform from a business like process perspective and then start looking at digital transformation. >>So some of it happened at the same time the organization made the decision back in about 2012 to consolidate other organizations. We were we kind of run ran regionally at the time and each independent, different region. There were 13 different regions kind of ran independently with their own I T systems. There were some shared technologies that we had of the organization, starting in about 2012 decided that no, we wanted to centralize our model and come together. We thought it was a more efficient manner and allowed us, in essence, to doom or for our mission, which is the ultimate goal. So there was a lot of consolidation around people on organization. Some of the processes I will say, God, God consolidated. Some are still going through some of that transformation. So after we kind of keep brought the organization's together and some of the people together, we kind of looked at Where are we with our technology and how do we move forward into the 21st century and do that effectively? And so at the time, we did kind of an analysis of our current state. As I mentioned in the keynote, we had a lot of technologies >>that were just older, had kind of run their course for >>end of life or just become that, you know, over change over a decade of changes and just being a monstrous the e meth or systems. That way, we're really struggling to keep up right both in terms of change and enhancement and delivering those capabilities back to our constituents. So we decided that no, it's time for us to move to a new and technology modernization effort, and we really wanted to be on the cloud first strategy. So we were looking at our cloud vendors and everything else. And one of the big selections was, as we chose Salesforce's R C R M platform we chose. Net Suite is our financially rp platform that we we could consolidate all those. And then as a part of that, we were looking at all of the leftover processes that weren't standardized, that we were still doing differently, that we could simplify. So taking stuff from 21 steps down to six steps if we could, you know, et cetera, and bringing that along with the transformation just to create more efficiencies for us and then, at the end of the day, driving a better end user experience with your volunteer, your staff, your patient, et cetera, >>it's a tremendous amount of data just in a serum like cells fours and Oracle Net Sweet. What was the thought and the opportunity to actually put an integration platform to enable that data to be shared between the applications and enabled whether it's providers or as you said volunteers, and we'll talk about that? And second, to be ableto have an experience that allows them to get whatever is that they're looking for. Talk to us about integration and sort of that driving kind of hub centralized hub aspect. >>Yeah. I mean, with any business data is key. And historically, we had our data was was >>spread out across multiple systems but then didn't always sync up. So you'd have you know you'd pull a report out of one system and say something different than when you looked at another system. So one of the key foundational tenets with the transformation was is we wanted our data to be in sync. We >>wanted to be able to see the same things no matter where you were looking. At that way, we we were all looking at the same information and basically a single source of truth. Yes, and boom. He was a critical component of that, right? With their integration platform, they were going to be our integration hub that is going >>to keep everything in sync. So we knew we had over, Um well, we had 100 and 20 applications that ultimately were a part of it. There were probably 20 major ones that had most of our data in there. And then boom. He is integrating all of those. So when information's coming across, whether it's coming in from, ah, donation made or an event participants or a patient referral form, all of that data comes in, comes in through Bumi, and it's propagated, orchestrated across the systems as it needs to be to make sure that it has all of the right information in it, that the data is as clean as we can make it, and it's all in sync. At the end of the day, >>that's critical. Having the data is great, but if you actually can't utilize an extract values from that, it's I don't want a worthless, but it's clearly the value, and they're you know, >>it's a lot harder to make good business decisions without good data, >>right? And when we're talking about something like patients dealing with with very, very scary situations, being able to Matt, whether it's matching a volunteer with ah mentor with a patient is going through something similar that could be game changing in lives and really kind of propagate. Talk to me about this service match that you guys have built with Bhumi. I think it's such a great service that you guys are delivering. Tell us about that. What it's enabling. >>So service matches an application that is part of our road to recovery program, where we provide rides for cancer patients to and from cancer treatment So often when you're getting chemo therapy, driving after chemotherapy is not an option. And ah, lot of a patient's have trouble with caregivers and family, always helping them. So the American Cancer Society provides this program to provide those rides free of charge for cancer patients. And the service match application is about connecting those patients to volunteers for the rides. So if if a patient calls in, they say, I need a ride, this is what time I'm going etcetera. They can do that now online as well, and we can connect them with a volunteer. So then that goes out to our volunteer community and somebody can say I can do that. I can help this person out, connects them up so that they can get to their treatments on time. >>That's so fantastic. And such a impact that you guys could make isn't something where you guys were integrating on the background with, like, a rideshare service or these just folks like Hey, I've got a car that seats five I want to help is it is available. It is. It is available to anybody. Anybody can >>volunteer, and most of the rides are handled volunteers If we cannot find a volunteer, we have a lot of great partners that worked with the American Cancer Society. They can provide those rideshare opportunities, so we'll make it happen and and get the patient to their treatment >>to talk to me about the ability to do that. That's a one great application of what you guys are doing with Bhumi. What was the actual building? That application? How long did it take to be able to say, Hey, we had this idea? We can connect these systems. We can facilitate something that's critical in the care of the patients. What was that kind of build an implementation like because when we talked a lot about time to value. And we've talked about that a lot today. So talk to me about it through that lens >>eso for us. We started on we're all on spreadsheets, right and paper. And yeah, it was it was about a 12 months process actually build some of the the service match application itself. The bony implementation came in as part of our transformation to make sure that all of the systems were integrated with that. So as people are requesting rides or whether that's through the call center or going through the website, that that information is there, that they can help patients with it. So if they need to change the schedule or do something different, that those all take place and that everybody has the latest information, it also enables us has were as changes are happening or even the rides are taking place. Notifications air going back out and back and forth so that everybody is up to date on all of the activity that's taking place. >>And to date, you guys have helped with service match alone Nearly 30,000 patients. >>Yeah, we we service. I think It's 30,000 patients a year. >>Wow. >>On the on the platform, we, uh, over 500,000 rides have been delivered since its inception. >>And And when was that inception? >>I'd have to look at the date. I don't >>know. A couple years ago were in the last. >>It's been It's probably been in over a decade now. >>Okay, that's awesome. So another thing. I'm curious. Four volunteers who want to do to raise funds to support the American Cancer Society is integration kind of essential component. You're smiling. So I think the answer is I think I know the answer. Talk to us about how, um, Bhumi is helping a CS to deliver, you know, a more seamless, a better fundraising experience for anybody that wants to actually go out and do that. >>Yeah. So we have a lot of donation processing systems that that that we leverage As for the American Cancer Society, because part of what we want to do is make it easy for people to raise money and raise it in their way. Right? So we have multiple systems, both from all the events that we do, whether it's the relay for life, for the making strides against breast cancer, which are two of our major event platforms. But we also have raised your way platforms. So if you want to do it yourself and you want to host a wine front razer with your friends and raise some money, we can absolutely help you do that as well. And what we do is we take all that information from all of that that from those events, and then bring that into the system so that we know what happened when who you were, so we can properly thank you. You can also get your tax credits and and all of the other things that go along with it. So >>that's awesome. So I want to ask you from a CEO's perspective, Bumi being a A single instance multi tenant cloud application delivered as a service to you and your previous role before you came to the American Cancer Society was insurance. Talk to me about that as a differentiator. What is that as a. C s continues to scale on, offer more programs and have more data to integrate roomies architecture and your perspective is that something that gives the A. C. S really a leg up to be able to do more, more. >>Absolutely. I think boonies, low code development strategy is is a differentiated for anybody that's using the platform it. We have been able to deliver Maur integrations in a shorter amount of time with our transformation than I've done in the past with other integration platforms or just developing it. I'll say the old fashioned way with Java or C sharp. So I think I think it's an integration platform. It's it's It's a real game changer in terms of what enterprises can do in terms of delivering, uh, faster and with Maur stability and performance than in the past, >>which is critical for many businesses that obviously yours included. They also take a look back at your previous role in a different industry. How is the role of the CEO changing in your perspective as things are moving to the cloud? But there's the explosion of edge and this consume arised implementation, right or influence because as consumers, we have access to everything and we want to be able to transact anything, whether it's signing up to be a volunteer or an actual patient needing to have access to records or a ride? How How is that consumers ation effect changing the role of the CEO, opening up more opportunities? >>Yeah, that's a big question. >>Sorry. It's >>okay. Um, yeah, I think the role of C I. O. Is changing significantly in terms of they are required to be more of a business leader are as much as a business leader as as any of the other C suite executives. And it is justice critical for them to understand the business where it's going be a part of the strategy with it and helped drive. From that perspective, The consumer ization component is actually in some ways, I think, making the c i o in the i t. Job a little bit harder. There's, um there's a lot that goes into making sure that what we're doing is secure on, performs well and sometimes just the overall consumer ization of technology. It looks so easy sometimes, and sometimes it's easy to underestimate some of the the complex nature of what we're doing and the level of security that needs to be applied to make sure that were protecting our constituents and making sure that their data is safe and secure. >>How does Boonmee help facilitate doctors? You right? We talk about security all the time. In any industry. How is what you're doing with Louis giving you maybe that peace of mind or or the confidence that what's being moved around as data and applications migrate, that you've got a secure, safe environment? That data? >>Yeah, I think Bumi does several things. First off, they've got a lot of security certifications is a part of their program. They make it relatively easy to to leverage that they allow us to deploy the the atoms where we need to. So whether that's on Prem or in our own tenants, behind our firewalls, all of those things will allow us to deploy it in whatever method we feel is most secure based on the data that we're trying to move >>except Well, Kenny, it's been a pleasure having you on the Cube just really quickly. Where can we go if we want to become a volunteered to help patients >>san sir dot org's >>cancer dot org's Awesome Kenny has been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank congratulations on the massive impact that A C S is making not just with Bhumi, but in the lives of many, many people. We appreciate your time. >>We're very excited and happy. We can help. >>All right. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from Bhumi World 2019. Thanks for watching.

>> From Cambridge, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering MIT Chief Data Officer and Information Quality Symposium 2019. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Hi, everybody, welcome back to Cambridge, Massachusetts. This is theCUBE, the leader in tech coverage. I'm Dave Vellante with my cohost, Paul Gillin, and we're here covering the MIT Chief Data Officer Information Quality Conference, #MITCDOIQ. Lisa Ehrlinger is here, she's the Senior Researcher at the Johannes Kepler University in Linz, Austria, and the Software Competence Center in Hagenberg. Lisa, thanks for coming in theCUBE, great to see you. >> Thanks for having me, it's great to be here. >> You're welcome. So Friday you're going to lay out the results of the study, and it's a study of Data Quality Tools. Kind of the long tail of tools, some of those ones that may not have made the Gartner Magic Quadrant and maybe other studies, but talk about the study and why it was initiated. >> Okay, so the main motivation for this study was actually a very practical one, because we have many company projects with companies from different domains, like steel industry, financial sector, and also focus on automotive industry at our department at Johannes Kepler University in Linz. We have experience with these companies for more than 20 years, actually, in this department, and what reoccurred was the fact that we spent the majority of time in such big data projects on data quality measurement and improvement tasks. So at some point we thought, okay, what possibilities are there to automate these tasks and what tools are out there on the market to automate these data quality tasks. So this was actually the motivation why we thought, okay, we'll look at those tools. Also, companies ask us, "Do you have any suggestions? "Which tool performs best in this-and-this domain?" And I think this study answers some questions that have not been answered so far in this particular detail, in these details. For example, Gartner Magic Quadrant of Data Quality Tools, it's pretty interesting but it's very high-level and focusing on some global windows, but it does not look on the specific measurement functionalities. >> Yeah, you have to have some certain number of whatever, customers or revenue to get into the Magic Quadrant. So there's a long tail that they don't cover. But talk a little bit more about the methodology, was it sort of you got hands-on or was it more just kind of investigating what the capabilities of the tools were, talking to customers? How did you come to the conclusions? >> We actually approached this from a very scientific side. We conducted a systematic search, which tools are out there on the market, not only industrial tools, but also open-sourced tools were included. And I think this gives a really nice digest of the market from different perspectives, because we also include some tools that have not been investigated by Gartner, for example, like more BTQ, Data Quality, or Apache Griffin, which has really nice monitoring capabilities, but lacks some other features from these comprehensive tools, of course. >> So was the goal of the methodology largely to capture a feature function analysis of being able to compare that in terms of binary, did it have it or not, how robust is it? And try to develop a common taxonomy across all these tools, is that what you did? >> So we came up with a very detailed requirements catalog, which is divided into three fields, like the focuses on data profiling to get a first insight into data quality. The second is data quality management in terms of dimensions, metrics, and rules. And the third part is dedicated to data quality monitoring over time, and for all those three categories, we came up with different case studies on a database, on a test database. And so we conducted, we looked, okay, does this tool, yes, support this feature, no, or partially? And when partially, to which extent? So I think, especially on the partial assessment, we got a lot into detail in our survey, which is available on Archive online already. So the preliminary results are already online. >> How do you find it? Where is it available? >> On Archive. >> Archive? >> Yes. >> What's the URL, sorry. Archive.com, or .org, or-- >> Archive.org, yeah. >> Archive.org. >> But actually there is a ID I have not with me currently, but I can send you afterwards, yeah. >> Yeah, maybe you can post that with the show notes. >> We can post it afterwards. >> I was amazed, you tested 667 tools. Now, I would've expected that there would be 30 or 40. Where are all of these, what do all of these long tail tools do? Are they specialized by industry or by function? >> Oh, sorry, I think we got some confusion here, because we identified 667 tools out there on the market, but we narrowed this down. Because, as you said, it's quite impossible to observe all those tools. >> But the question still stands, what is the difference, what are these very small, niche tools? What do they do? >> So most of them are domain-specific, and I think this really highlights also these very basic early definition about data quality, of like data qualities defined as fitness for use, and we can pretty much see it here that we excluded the majority of these tools just because they assess some specific kind of data, and we just really wanted to find tools that are generally applicable for different kinds of data, for structured data, unstructured data, and so on. And most of these tools, okay, someone came up with, we want to assess the quality of our, I don't know, like geological data or something like that, yeah. >> To what extent did you consider other sort of non-technical factors? Did you do that at all? I mean, was there pricing or complexity of downloading or, you know, is there a free version available? Did you ignore those and just focus on the feature function, or did those play a role? >> So basically the focus was on the feature function, but of course we had to contact the customer support. Especially with the commercial tools, we had to ask them to provide us with some trial licenses, and there we perceived different feedback from those companies, and I think the best comprehensive study here is definitely Gartner Magic Quadrant for Data Quality Tools, because they give a broad assessment here, but what we also highlight in our study are companies that have a very open support and they are very willing to support you. For example, Informatica Data Quality, we perceived a really close interaction with them in terms of support, trial licenses, and also like specific functionality. Also Experian, our contact from Experian from France was really helpful here. And other companies, like IBM, they focus on big vendors, and here, it was not able to assess these tools, for example, yeah. >> Okay, but the other differences of the Magic Quadrant is you guys actually used the tools, played with them, experienced firsthand the customer experience. >> Exactly, yeah. >> Did you talk to customers as well, or, because you were the customer, you had that experience. >> Yes, I were the customer, but I was also happy to attend some data quality event in Vienna, and there I met some other customers who had experience with single tools. Not of course this wide range we observed, but it was interesting to get feedback on single tools and verify our results, and it matched pretty good. >> How large was the team that ran the study? >> Five people. >> Five people, and how long did it take you from start to finish? >> Actually, we performed it for one year, roughly. The assessment. And I think it's a pretty long time, especially when you see how quick the market responds, especially in the open source field. But nevertheless, you need to make some cut, and I think it's a very recent study now, and there is also the idea to publish it now, the preliminary results, and we are happy with that. >> Were there any surprises in the results? >> I think the main results, or one of the surprises was that we think that there is definitely more potential for automation, but not only for automation. I really enjoyed the keynote this morning that we need more automation, but at the same time, we think that there is also the demand for more declaration. We observed some tools that say, yeah, we apply machine learning, and then you look into their documentation and find no information, which algorithm, which parameters, which thresholds. So I think this is definitely, especially if you want to assess the data quality, you really need to know what algorithm and how it's attuned and give the user, which in most case will be a technical person with technical background, like some chief data officer. And he or she really needs to have the possibility to tune these algorithms to get reliable results and to know what's going on and why, which records are selected, for example. >> So now what? You're presenting the results, right? You're obviously here at this conference and other conferences, and so it's been what, a year, right? >> Yes. >> And so what's the next wave? What's next for you? >> The next wave, we're currently working on a project which is called some Knowledge Graph for Data Quality Assessment, which should tackle two problems in ones. The first is to come up with a semantic representation of your data landscape in your company, but not only the data landscape itself in terms of gathering meta data, but also to automatically improve or annotate this data schema with data profiles. And I think what we've seen in the tools, we have a lot of capabilities for data profiling, but this is usually left to the user ad hoc, and here, we store it centrally and allow the user to continuously verify newly incoming data if this adheres to this standard data profile. And I think this is definitely one step into the way into more automation, and also I think it's the most... The best thing here with this approach would be to overcome this very arduous way of coming up with all the single rules within a team, but present the data profile to a group of data, within your data quality project to those peoples involved in the projects, and then they can verify the project and only update it and refine it, but they have some automated basis that is presented to them. >> Oh, great, same team or new team? >> Same team, yeah. >> Oh, great. >> We're continuing with it. >> Well, Lisa, thanks so much for coming to theCUBE and sharing the results of your study. Good luck with your talk on Friday. >> Thank you very much, thank you. >> All right, and thank you for watching. Keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. From MIT CDOIQ, you're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon CloudNativeCon Euope 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing foundation and eco-system partners. >> Welcome back to the Fira here in Barcelona, Spain. This is theCUBE's coverage of KubeCon CloudNativeCon 2019. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host for two days of coverage is Corey Quinn, and we're excited to have on the program a first time guest, but a company that we've known for quite a while, Daniel Lopez Ridruejo, who's the CEO and co-founder of Bitnami. Just announced recently that Bitnami is being acquired by VMware. Daniel, thanks so much for joining us and congratulations to you and the team on the 'exit' as it were. >> Thank you very much, gracias. It's an honor to be here. >> Yeah so we had Erica Brescia who's the co-founder of yours on theCUBE seven years ago. Back then I was trying to figure out exactly what Bitnami was and where it fit in this whole world. Maybe you can just bring us up to speed for those that maybe don't know, and there's all these people in the enterprise space that might not know your community that the dev space knows real well, as to bring us back the who and the why of Bitnami >> Yeah Erica is my co-founder and we have been building this together over the years. It has been quite a fair ride and, we started Bitnami as an offshoot of our previous company called Bedrock in which we made software easy to install. And then we realized that a lot of what people wanted to make easy to install on Linux was Open Source software, so we started working with companies like MySQL and SugarCRM, Splunk really early on when they were only four or five people, and over time we decided to do the same thing as an Open Source project for all those other tools and projects that didn't have a way to make them easy to install. We started as Bitnami.org, we wanted to emphasize that it was an Open Source project, was never going to be a company, and it didn't turn out that way. >> All right so, we got a lot of things to cover, but help us connect the dots as to those early you know, dot org, it wasn't a company, to a company having the dev space to, we're starting down the path towards the enterprise, which seemed to be a natural fit as to what happened today. >> Yeah so going back to your original question of why we wanted to make, was always being driven. There is all this marvelous Open Source software out there that is super difficult to use for a great majority of people, and we just wanted to lower the barrier to make it easy to use, and that's what got it started. We never expected the success. It turns out we went from a hundred, to a thousand, to ten thousand to hundreds of thousands of downloads, and you know, we're super popular with developers. We have literally millions of developers using Bitnami, and as part of that evolution, we started working with the cloud providers. We drive a significant percentage of usage for Amazon, for Google, for Microsoft, that's what makes it valuable to those cloud vendors, and as the next stage of the company, we wanted to go directly to the enterprises in which we already have a lot of developers in those same enterprises, but when you go move to production, you know that it's a lot of red tape, a lot of gates that you have to go about compliance and security, and that's where we're taking the company to. >> Nine, ten years ago I stumbled over you, over your company or I guess project at that time, and it was the second best way I ever found to run WordPress. The first of course is, don't run WordPress. I'm very serious. Don't run WordPress. And I'm curious now, with the acquisition of Bitnami, what is the longer-term vision for how this fits into a more cloud-native landscape. Is it continuing to just be the, well not just but, is it continuing to be the application you get from a catalog and it's up and running, is their a containerized story, is there something else I'm not seeing? >> No, that's the core of Bitnami, and that will continue to do that. What has evolved over time is that initially you could download an installer and run it on your Mac. And then we were one of the first early adapters of AWS, so we created all these AMIs and when, you know, people were thinking that we were crazy, that Amazon was a company that sold books, but you know, what were we doing? We kind of saw where it was going early on. And then as Kubernetes came along, we were really, really early there as well, and we were one of the early partners of these around Helm. We provided a lot of the Helm charts. Right now we may have dabbled a little bit on Serverless, So whatever comes next, we will be there and our goal continues to be the same thing, which is to make awesome software available to everyone. So independently of the underlying platform, that's where we're focusing, so, the core mission is not changing, we're just omitting that, and going after the enterprise, more red hat enterprise Linux, you know, more OpenShift, more multi tier, high availabilty, more production features. >> All right so, you talk about all those pieces, and you talk about linux and everything there. I want you help connect, how does that tie into VMware and what you see them doing today because, sure Linux has been something that could live on a hypervisor for a long time, but in many ways there's been struggles in competition between VMware and them and the Linux community in the past, but, you know, we're starting to see some of that change and maybe this helps accelerate some of that change. >> Yeah I think there is a couple of companies, Microsoft and VMware, that were completely different companies than five years ago and probably the decision would have been different for us like five years ago versus what the company is today and where they're going. For us VMware is, the holy grail of acquisition is 2 plus 2 equals five, and that's hardly the, you know, there's a lot of acquisitions that don't go that way. For us it was a very thought out decision and it was, I think it was clear for us in the sense that we have a very big footprint with developers, they own enterprise IT, we wanted to go enterprise, they wanted to go into developers, they understand Open Source, they understand distributed teams, yeah. >> Maybe, I'd love to hear your insight as to that developer community, because when I walk around the show floor, you know, there was that struggle between the enterprise and the developers, and now, the storage world, we need to get CI/CD and all these things and they're like "uh, we don't know how to get there" . And over the last few years, it seems there's been a blurring of the lines, and more enterprise is embracing it, Open Source is a big piece of that, so is it, as you said, five years ago this wouldn't have happened, but now it feels like we're ready for that next step of the curve. >> Correct. And all of that is because of this standardization, that Kubernetes is allowing, you can standardize business practices, and your seeing a consolidation, the CI/CD wall. And it's like, things that used to be very exotic now is business as usual. And it's a parallel, you know, I started using Linux in '93, when there was not even a concept of a Linux distribution, you have to do all these things just to get a prompt, but over time people have standardized, you know I remember there were like, 50 or 60 Linux distributions; StagWare, SLS. And eventually, everybody converged on Red Hat enterprise Linux. I think something similar is going to happen, we're just midway there, in which you will not have KubeCon because Kubernetes will be something transparent that is boring. So, we're not there yet, but at some point Kubernetes will be boring and there will be layers on top of that where all the action is. Or will be. >> From my perspective, coming from a small startup background, it seemed to me that VMware was always one of those stodgy, boring companies I didn't have much time for and lately there've been a series of high profile acquisitions, Heptio, Wavefront, CloudFront and now Bitnami, and it's really changing, almost without me noticing, my entire perception of their place in the modern evolving cloud ecosystem. >> I think so, and that's one of the things that attracted us and I talked to Victoria about it, get to spend a bit of time with the CEO, with the people at the high level. For us it was very important. But again, one thing we haven't mentioned is that, for the most part we have been bootstrapped. We have been profitable, we only took a little money from Ycombinator when we were already profitable. So we have choices. Sometimes our BC funded peers don't have that choice, so it was a very meditated decision, and for me for these kind of acquisitions, when a much bigger company joins forces with a smaller company, the strategies need to be aligned. And to me, VMware realized that the world, a few years ago, that the world is going to be moved to cloud, the world is going to go towards Kubernetes and containers. And the acquisition of Heptio, the acquisition of CloudHealth, told us that they're serious about that and that we can fit right in and take advantage of that transformation they are going. And so far it's working really, really, really well and that's part of what made us decide to go in this direction. >> Yeah Daniel, what can you tell us about things, once this actually does close, what will that mean for the brand? What about relationships with, you mentioned Heptio? But not only Heptio, Pivotal obvously is a big player in this space. How does all of that line up? >> With Heptio and other units like the marketplace's other groups, we were already working with them before the acquisition, with Heptio, with ksonnet and a bunch of other initiatives. We're just going to double down on that, and they want to keep Bitnami, they want to keep the brand, they want to keep the team. If anything we're going to get more resources, and again, that was the fact that they didn't want to touch something that is working. We have been partners for, I think, seven or eight years. We have gotten to know each other over that time and built that trust that is needed. In a way nothing is going to change. We're going to have the same team doing the same things, we're just going to have more access to their userbase. Which is what we're going to do. We started down this path because we were raising money to build an enterprise sales force, and at some point we decided, okay, this doesn't make sense. We're going to give away all this chunk of the company to get access to the enterprise, or to build a sales force to get access to the enterprise, when we can be part of VMware and get that for free. >> You've mentioned a fair bit about what's going to change as far as you getting exposure to new customers, effectively broadening into additional markets. What does this mean for your existing customers who are, in some cases, whenever you're a customer of a small-ish company, and there's an acquisition, it sometimes is natural to be a little concerned of, do I need to find a new vendor? Do I need to find a new provider? And frankly, there's nothing else like you that I've ever seen on the market. >> No, that's a really good question. For us, what is a little bit unique is we have millions of users, but we only have a handful of customers. So our customers are AWS, Google, Microsoft, Oracle. So it was very important; VMware is already a vendor to all of these; and so far everybody is going to stay and we're just going to continue and deepen the relationship. And that's one of the things that made this attractive. So for customers, nothing is going to change. And we're just going to continue to deepen those relationships. And again, that was important. Had we gone through some of the other options there would have been a lot of very outward conversations to have and that is not the case. >> Yeah Daniel, how about the developer community itself. It's just had millions of downloads out there. We understand how some of the reaction can be. >> Yeah, everybody is like, is VMware going to be the evil company that's going to touch that? And I think so far the feedback has been extremely positive, including even Hacker News, right, which is shocking. >> And those people don't like anything. >> I've been high Hacker News since the very beginning and it can be harsh. So it was something I was monitoring how people. And so far it has been very positive and that's only not a testimony how much people like Bitnami but also again, VMware acquire Heptio and everything's great. We talk to a lot of the people at Heptio, you know, hey how are things going? How has it been? And everybody loved it there, so for us it was something that gave us a lot of reassurance that all these other companies with a lot of Open Source DNA were being successful there and gave us reassurance. Time will tell. We'll see one year from now where we are, but so far everybody that we have talked to, all the conversations have been great. >> So Daniel you have a very interesting viewpoint on this whole ecosystem, we work with all the cloud providers. Any commentary you'd give of, you talk about that midway point of maturity? Where do you see things today, where do you see them going? What do we need to fix as an industry? >> Well it's very difficult to predict where things are going I just think that at this point it's very safe to say that it's going to be a multi-cloud war. That was not like three, four years ago. It seemed like it could be a repeat of the '90s in which Microsoft own ninety-something percent of the market share. And there was a lot of things that didn't make sense. Right now at least Amazon, plus a bunch of other clouds, are viable, and if anything they are growing. So a lot of companies like HashiCorp, like VMware. Companies that support this multi-cloud environment, not all of them, but all of them are very well positioned to thrive because it's not going to change any time soon. The other thing I think that is safe to assume is, we are going to have more artifacts than ever, so companies like Artifactory, I think they will do well. As any companies have to do to do with security. We're going to have more security issues, not less. But in the long term that's as much as I can predict. >> All right, well, Daniel, thank you so much. Congratulations again, and we look forward to seeing you at VMworld. Where we'll have theCUBE there. It'll actually be our tenth year being at Vmworld. >> Awesome >> So we're excited and always happy to talk to, especially the startups some great news here. For Corey Quinn, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks as always for watching theCUBE.

(funky guitar music) >> From our studios, in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, This is theCUBE conversation. >> Everyone welcome to this CUBE conversation here in Palo Alto, California CUBE studios, I'm John Furrier, the host of theCUBE. Were with CUBE alumni, special guest Amit Walia, President of Products & Marketing at Informatica. Amit, it's great to see you. It's been a while. It's been a couple of months, how's things? >> Good to be back as always. >> Welcome back. Okay, Informatica worlds is coming up, we have a whole segment on that but we have been covering you guys for a long long time, data is at the center of the value proposition again and again, it's more amplified now, the fog is lifting. >> Sure. >> And the world is now seeing what we were talking about four years ago. (giggles) >> Yeah. >> With data, what's new? What's the big trends that going on that you guys are doubling down on? What's new, what's changed? Give us the update. >> Sure. I think we have been talking the last couple of years, I think your right, data has becoming more and more important. I think, three things we see a lot. One is obviously, you saw this whole world of digital transformation. I think that has de faintly has picked up so much steam now. I mean, every company is going digital and obviously that creates a whole new paradigm shift for companies to carry out almost recreate themselves, rebuild them, so data becomes the new definition. And that's what we call those things you saw at Infomatica even before data3.org, but data is the center of everything, right? And you see the volume of data growth, you know, the utilization of data to make decisions, whether it's, you know, decisions on the shop floor, decisions basically related to cyber security or whatever it is. And the key to what you see different now is the whole AI assisted data management. I mean the scale of complexity, the scale of growth, you know, multi-cloud, multi-platform, all the stuff that is in front of us, it's really difficult to run the old way of doing things, so that's why we see one thing that we see a whole lot is AI is becoming a lot more mainstream, still early days but it's assisting the whole ability for companies, what I call, exploit data to really become a lot more transformative. >> You have been on this for a while, again we can go back to theCUBE archives, we can almost pull out clips from two years ago, be relevant today, you know, the data control, understanding >> Yeah. >> Understanding where the data governance is-- >> Sure. >> That's always a foundational thing but you guys nailed the chat bots, you have been doing AI was previous announcements, this is putting a lot of pressure on you, the president of the products, you got to get this out there. >> What's new? What's happening inside Informatica? pedaling as fast as you can? What is some of the updates? >> No. >> Gives us the-- >> The best example always is like a duck, right? Your really swimming and feel things are calm at the top and then you are really paddling. No, I think it's great for us. I think, I look at AI's, AI is like, there is so much FUD [fear, uncertainty and doubt] around it and machine learning AI. We look at it as two different ways. One is how we leverage machine learning within our products to help our customers. Making it easy for them, like I said, so many different data types, think of IOT data, unstructured data, streaming data, how do you bring all that stuff together and marry it with your existing transactional data to make sense. So, we're leveraging a lot of machine learning to make the internal products a lot more easier to consume, a lot more smarter, a lot more richer. The second thing is that, we're what we call it our AI, CLAIRE, which we unveiled, if you remember, a couple of years ago at the Informatica World. How that then helps our customers make smarter decisions, you know, in data science and all of these data workbenches, you know, the old statistical models is only as good as they can ever be. So, we leveraging helping our customers see the value proposition of our AI, CLAIRE, then to what I make things that, you know, find patterns, you know, statistical models cannot. So, to me I look at both of those really, leveraging ML to shape our products, which is where we do a lot of innovation and then creating our AI, CLAIRE, to help customers to make smarter decisions, easier decisions, complex decisions, which I called the humans or statistical models, really cannot. >> Well this is the balance with machines and humans. >> Right. >> working together, you guys have nailed this before and I'm, I think this was two years ago. I started to hear the words, land, adopt, expand, form you guys, right? Which is, you got to get adoption. >> Right. >> And so, as you're iterating on this product focus, you got to getting working, making secure your products-- >> Big, big maniacal focus on that one. >> So, tell me what you have learned there because that's a hard thing. >> Right. >> You guy are doing well at it. You got to get adoption, which means you got to listen customers, you got to do the course correction. >> Yeah. >> what's the learnings coming out of that piece of that. >> That's actually such a good point. We've made such, we've always been a customer centric company but as you said, like, as whole world shifted towards a new subscription cloud model, we've really focused on helping our customers adopt our products and you know, in this new world, customers are struggling with new architectures and everything, so we doubled down on what we called customer success. Making sure we can help our customers adopt the products and by the way it's to our benefit. Our customers get value really quickly and of course we believe in what we call a customer for life. Our ability to then grow with our customers and help them deliver value becomes a lot better. So, we really focused, so, we have globally across the board customers, success managers, we really invest in our customers, the moment a customer buys a product from us, we directly engage with them to help them understand for this use case, how you implement the product. >> It's not just self service, that's one thing that I appreciate 'cause I know how hard it is to build products these days, especially with the velocity of change but it's also when you have a large scale data. >> Yeah. >> You need automation, you got to have machine learning, you got to have these disciplines. >> Sure. >> And this is both on your end and but also on the customer. >> Yes. >> Any on the updates on the CLAIRE and some customer learnings you're seeing that are turning into use cases or best practices, what are some of them? >> So many of them. So take a simple example, right? I mean, we think of, we take these things for granted, right? I mean, take note, we don't talk about IOB these days right? All these cell cells, we were streaming data, right? Or even robots on the shop floor. So much of that data has no schema, no structure, no definition, it's coming, right? Netflix data and for customers there is a lot of volume in it, a lot of it could be junk, right? So, how do you first take that volume of data? Create some structure to it for you to do analytics. You can only do analytics if you put some structure to it, right? So, first thing is I've leverage CLAIRE, we help our customers to create, what I call, schema and you can create some structure to it. Then what we do allow is basically CLAIRE through CLAIRE, it can naturally bring what we have the data quality on top of it, like how much of it is irrelevant, how much of it is noise, how much of it really makes sense, so, then, as you said it, signal from the noise We are helping our customers get signal from the noise of data. That's where it AI comes very handy because it's very manual, cumbersome, time consuming and sometimes very difficult to do. So, that's a area we have leveraged creating structure and data quality on top and finding rules that didn't naturally probably didn't exist, that you and me wouldn't be able to see. Machines are able to do it and to your point, our belief is, this is my 100% belief, we believe AI assisting the humans. We have given the value of CLAIRE to our users, so it complements you and that's where we are trying to help our users get more productive and deliver more value to you faster. >> Productivity is multifold, it's like, also, efficiency, people wasting time on project that can be automated, so you can focus that valuable resource somewhere else. >> Yeah. >> Okay, let's shift gears onto Informatica World coming up. Let's spend some time on that. What's the focus this year, the show, it's coming up, right around the corner, what's going to be the focus? What's going to be the agenda? What's on the plate? >> Give you a quick sense on how it's shape up, it's probably going to be our Informatica World. So, it's 20th year, again back in Waze, you know, we love Waze of course. We have obviously, a couple of days lined up over there, I know you guys will be there too. A great set of speakers. Obviously, we will have me on stage, speakers like, we'll have some, the CEO of Google Cloud, Thomas Kurian is going to be there, we'll have on the main stage with Anil, we'll have the CEO of Databricks, Ali, with me, we'll also have CMO of AWS, Ariel, there, then we have a couple of customers lined up, Simon from Credit Suisse, Daniel is the CDO of Nissan, we also have the Head of AI, Simon Guggenheimer from Microsoft as well as the Chief Product Officer of Tableau, Francois Ajenstat, so, we have a great line up of speakers, customers and some of our very very strategic partners with us. If you remember last year, We also had Scott Guthrie there main stage. 80 plus sessions, pretty much 90% lead by customers. We have 70 to 80 customers presenting. >> Technical sessions or going to be a Ctrack? >> Technical, business, we have all kinds of tracks, we have hands on labs, we have learnings, customers really want to learn our products, talk with the experts, some want to the product managers, some want to talk to the engineers, literally so many hands on labs, so, it's going to be a full blown couple of days for us. >> What's the pitch for someone watching that never been Informatica World? Why should they come for the show? >> I'll always tell them three things. Number one is that, it's a user conference for our customers to learn all things about data management and of course in that context they learn a lot about. So, they learn a lot about the industry. So, day one we kick it off by market perspectives. We are giving a sense on how the market is going, how everybody is stepping back from the day to and understanding, where are these digital transformation, AI, where is all the world of data going. We've got some great annalists coming, talkings, some customers talking, we are talking about futures over there. Then it is all about hands on learning, right?, learning about the product. Hearing from some of these experts, right?, from the industry experts as well as our customers, teaching what to do and what not to do and networking, it's always go to network, right, it's a great place for people to learn from each other. So, it's a great forum for all those three things but the theme this year is all about AI. I talked about CLAIRE, I'll in fact our tagline this year is, Clarity Unleashed. We really want, basically, AI has been developing over the last couple of years, it's becoming a lot more mainstream, for us in our offerings and this year we're really taking it mainstream, so, it's kind of like, unleashing it for everybody can genuinely use it, truly use it, for the day to day data management activities. >> Clarity is a great theme, I mean, it plays on CLAIRE but this is what we're starting to see some visiblility into some clear >> Yeah. >> Economic benefits, business benefits. >> Yep. >> Technical benefits, >> Yep. >> Kind of all starting to come in. How would you categorize those three areas because you know, generally that's the consensus these days that what was once a couple years ago was, like, foggy when you see, now you're starting to see that lift, you're seeing economic, business and technical benefits. >> To me it's all about economic and business. So, technology plays a role in driving value for the business, right, I'm a full believer in that, right, and if you think about some of the trends today, right, a billion users are coming into play that will be assisted by AI. Data is doubling every year, you know the volume of data, >> Yep. >> The amount of, and I always say business users today, I mean, I run a business, I want, I always say, tomorrow data, yesterday to make a decision today. It's just in time and that's where AI comes into play. So our goal is to help organizations transform themselves, truly be more productive, reduce operation cost, by the way governance and compliance, that's becoming such a mainstream topic. It's not just basically making analytical decisions. How do you make sure your data is safe and secure, you don't want to get basically get hit by all of these cyber attacks, they're all are coming after data. So, governance, compliance of data that's becoming very, so, those-- >> Again you guys are right on the data thing. >> Yeah. >> I want to get your reaction, you mentioned some stats. >> Sure. >> I've got some stats here. Data explosion, 15.3 zettabytes per year >> Yeah, in global traffic. >> Yeah. >> 500 million business data users and growing 20 billion in connected devices, one billion workers will be assisted by machine learning, so, thanks for plugging those stats but I want to get your reaction to some of these other points here. 80% of enterprises are looking at multicloud, their really evaluating where the data sits in that equation >> Sure. And the other thing is the responsibility and role of the Chief Data Officer >> Yes. >> These are new dynamics, I think you guys will be addressing that into the event. >> Absolutely, absolutely. >> Because organizational dynamics, skill gaps are issues but also you have multicloud. So your thoughts on those to. >> That's a big thing, look at, in the old world, John, Hidrantes is always still in large enterprises, right, and it's going to stay here. In fact I think it's not just cloud, think of it this way, on-premise is still here, it's not going a way. It's reducing in scope but then you have this multicloud world, SAS apps, PAS apps, infrastructure, if I'm a customer, I want to do all of it but the biggest problem is that my data is everywhere, how do I make sense of it and then how do I govern it, like my customer data is sitting somewhere in this SAS app, in that platform, on this on-prem application transaction app I'm running, how do I connect the three and how do I make sense it doesn't get, I can have a governance control around it. That's when data management becomes more important but more complex but that's why AI comes in to making it easier. What are the things we've seen a lot, as you touched upon, is the rise of CDO. In fact we have Daniel from Nissan, she is the CDO of Nissan North America, on main stage, talking about her role and how they have leveraged data to transform themselves. That is something we're seeing a lot more because you know, the role of the CDO is making sure that is not only a sense of governance and compliance, a sense of how do we even understand the value of data across an enterprise. Again, I see, one of the things we going to talk about is system thinking around data. We call it System Thinking 3.0, data is becoming a platform. See, there was OSA-D hardware layer whether it is server, or compute, we believe that data is becoming a platform in itself. Whether you think about it in terms of scale, in terms of governance, in terms of AI, in terms of privacy, you have to think of data as a platform. That's the other big thing. >> I think that is a very powerful statement and I like to get your thoughts, we had many conversations on camera, off camera, around product, Silicon Valley, Venture Capital, how can startups create value. On of the old antigens use to be, build a platform, that's your competitive strategy, you were a platform company and that was a strategic competitive advantage. >> Yes. >> That was unique to the company, they created enablement, Facebook is a great example. >> Yeah. >> They monetized all the data from the users, look where they are. >> Sure. >> If you think about platforms today. >> Sure. >> It seems to be table steaks, not as a competitive advantage but more of a foundational. >> Sure. >> Element of all businesses. >> Yeah. >> Not just startups and enterprises. This seems to be a common thread, do you agree with that, that platforms becoming table steaks, 'cause of if we have to think like systems people >> Mm-hmm. >> Whether it's an enterprise. >> Sure. >> Or a supplier, then holistically the platform becomes table steaks on premer or cloud. Your reaction to that. Do you agree? >> No, I think I agree. I'll say it slightly differently, yes. I think platform is a critical component for any enterprise when they think of their end to end technology strategy because you can't do piece meals otherwise you become a system integrator of your own, right? But it's no easy to be a platform player itself, right, because as a platform player, the responsibility of what you have to offer your customer becomes a lot bigger. So, we obviously has this intelligent data platform but the other thing is that the rule of the platform is different too. It has to be very modular and API driven. Nobody wants to buy a monolithic platform. I don't want to, as a enterprise, I don't buy all now, I'm going to implement five years of platform. You want it, it's going to be like a Lego block, okay you, it builds by itself. Not monolithic, very API driven, maybe microservices based and that's our belief that in the new world, yes, platform is very critical for to accelerate your transformational journeys or data driven transformational journeys but the platform better be API driven, microservices based, very nimble that is not a percussor to value creation but creates value as you go along. >> It's all, kind of up to, depends on the customer it could have a thin foundational data platform, from you guys for instance, then what you're saying, compose. >> Of different components. >> On whatever you need. >> For example you have data integration platform, you can do data quality on top, you can do master data management on top, you can provide governance, you can provide privacy, you can do cataloging, it all builds. >> Yeah. >> It's not like, oh my gosh, I have go do all these things over the course of five years, then I get value. You got to create value all along. >> Yeah. >> Today's customers want value like, in two months, three months, you don't want to wait for a year or two. >> This is the excatly the, I think, the operating system, systems mindset. >> Yes. >> You were referring too, this is kind of how enterprises are behaving now. There is the way you see on-premise, >> Yep. >> Thinking around data, cloud, multicloud emerging, it's a systems view distributed computing, with the right Lego blocks. >> That's what our belief is. That's what we heard from customers. See our, I spend most of my time talking to customers and are we trying to understand what customers want today and you know, some of this latent demands that they have, sometimes can't articulate, my job, I always end up on the road most of the time, just hearing customers, that's what they want. They want exactly to your point, a platform that builds, not monolithic, but they do want a platform. They do want to make it easy for them not to do everything piece meal. Every project is a data project. Whether it's a customer experience project, whether it's a governance project, whether it's nothing else but a analytical project, it's a data project. You don't repeat it every time. That's what they want. >> I know you got a hard stop but I want to get your thoughts on this because I have heard the word, workload, mentioned so many more times in the past year, if there was a tag cloud of all theCUBE conversations where the word workload was mentioned, it would be the biggest font. (laughs) >> Yes. >> Workload has been around for a while but now you are seeing more workloads coming on. >> Yeah. >> That's more important for data. >> Yes. >> Workloads being tied into data. >> Absolutely. >> And then sharing data across multiple workloads, that's a big focus, do you see that same thing? >> We absolutely see that and the unique thing we see also is that newer workloads are being created and the old workloads are not going away, which is where the hybrid becomes very important. See, we serve large enterprises and their goal is to have a hybrid. So, you know, I'm running a old transaction workload order here, I want to have a experimental workload, I want to start a new workload, I want all of them to talk to each other, I don't want them to become silos and that's when they look to us to say connect the dots for me, you can be in the cloud, as an example, our cloud platform, you know last time, we talked about a 5 trillion transactions a month, today is double that, eight to ten trillion transactions a month. Growing like crazy but our traditional workload is also still there so we connect the dots for our customers. >> Amit, thank you for coming on sharing your insights, obviously you guys are doing well. You've got 300,000 developers, billions in revenue, thanks for coming on, appreciate the insight and looking forward to your Informatica World. >> Thank you very much. >> Amit Walia here inside theCUBE, with theCUBE conversation, in Palo Alto, thanks for watching.

[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] that will be successful in the 21st century [Music] being open is really important because it comes with a lot of trust the open-source community now has matured so much and that contribution from the community is really driving innovation [Music] but what's really exciting is the change that we've seen in our teams not only the way they collaborate but the way they operate in the way they work [Music] I think idea is everything ideas can change the way you see things open-source is more than a license it's actually a way of operating [Music] ladies and gentlemen please welcome Red Hat president and chief executive officer Jim Whitehurst [Music] all right well welcome to day two at the Red Hat summit I'm amazed to see this many people here at 8:30 in the morning given the number of people I saw pretty late last night out and about so thank you for being here and have to give a shout out speaking of power participation that DJ is was Mike Walker who is our global director of open innovation labs so really enjoyed that this morning was great to have him doing that so hey so day one yesterday we had some phenomenal announcements both around Red Hat products and things that we're doing as well as some great partner announcements which we found exciting I hope they were interesting to you and I hope you had a chance to learn a little more about that and enjoy the breakout sessions that we had yesterday so yesterday was a lot about the what with these announcements and partnerships today I wanted to spin this morning talking a little bit more about the how right how do we actually survive and thrive in this digitally transformed world and to some extent the easy parts identifying the problem we all know that we have to be able to move more quickly we all know that we have to be able to react to change faster and we all know that we need to innovate more effectively all right so the problem is easy but how do you actually go about solving that right the problem is that's not a product that you can buy off the shelf right it is a capability that you have to build and certainly it's technology enabled but it's also depends on process culture a whole bunch of things to figure out how we actually do that and the answer is likely to be different in different organizations with different objective functions and different starting points right so this is a challenge that we all need to feel our way to an answer on and so I want to spend some time today talking about what we've seen in the market and how people are working to address that and it's one of the reasons that the summit this year the theme is ideas worth it lorring to take us back on a little history lesson so two years ago here at Moscone the theme of the summit was the power of participation and then I talked a lot about the power of groups of people working together and participating are able to solve problems much more quickly and much more effectively than individuals or even individual organizations working by themselves and some of the largest problems that we face in technology but more broadly in the world will ultimately only be solved if we effectively participate and work together then last year the theme of the summit was the impact of the individual and we took this concept of participation a bit further and we talked about how participation has to be active right it's a this isn't something where you can be passive that you can sit back you have to be involved because the problem in a more participative type community is that there is no road map right you can't sit back and wait for an edict on high or some central planning or some central authority to tell you what to do you have to take initiative you have to get involved right this is a active participation sport now one of the things that I talked about as part of that was that planning was dead and it was kind of a key my I think my keynote was actually titled planning is dead and the concept was that in a world that's less knowable when we're solving problems in a more organic bottom-up way our ability to effectively plan into the future it's much less than it was in the past and this idea that you're gonna be able to plan for success and then build to it it really is being replaced by a more bottom-up participative approach now aside from my whole strategic planning team kind of being up in arms saying what are you saying planning is dead I have multiple times had people say to me well I get that point but I still need to prepare for the future how do I prepare my organization for the future isn't that planning and so I wanted to spend a couple minutes talk a little more detail about what I meant by that but importantly taking our own advice we spent a lot of time this past year looking around at what our customers are doing because what a better place to learn then from large companies and small companies around the world information technology organizations having to work to solve these problems for their organizations and so our ability to learn from each other take the power of participation an individual initiative that people and organizations have taken there are just so many great learnings this year that I want to get a chance to share I also thought rather than listening to me do that that we could actually highlight some of the people who are doing this and so I do want to spend about five minutes kind of contextualizing what we're going to go through over the next hour or so and some of the lessons learned but then we want to share some real-world stories of how organizations are attacking some of these problems under this how do we be successful in a world of constant change in uncertainty so just going back a little bit more to last year talking about planning was dead when I said planning it's kind of a planning writ large and so that's if you think about the way traditional organizations work to solve problems and ultimately execute you start off planning so what's a position you want to get to in X years and whether that's a competitive strategy in a position of competitive advantage or a certain position you want an organizational function to reach you kind of lay out a plan to get there you then typically a senior leaders or a planning team prescribes the sets of activities and the organization structure and the other components required to get there and then ultimately execution is about driving compliance against that plan and you look at you say well that's all logical right we plan for something we then figure out how we're gonna get there we go execute to get there and you know in a traditional world that was easy and still some of this makes sense I don't say throw out all of this but you have to recognize in a more uncertain volatile world where you can be blindsided by orthogonal competitors coming in and you the term uber eyes you have to recognize that you can't always plan or know what the future is and so if you don't well then what replaces the traditional model or certainly how do you augment the traditional model to be successful in a world that you knows ambiguous well what we've heard from customers and what you'll see examples of this through the course of this morning planning is can be replaced by configuring so you can configure for a constant rate of change without necessarily having to know what that change is this idea of prescription of here's the activities people need to perform and let's lay these out very very crisply job descriptions what organizations are going to do can be replaced by a greater degree of enablement right so this idea of how do you enable people with the knowledge and things that they need to be able to make the right decisions and then ultimately this idea of execution as compliance can be replaced by a greater level of engagement of people across the organization to ultimately be able to react at a faster speed to the changes that happen so just double clicking in each of those for a couple minutes so what I mean by configure for constant change so again we don't know exactly what the change is going to be but we know it's going to happen and last year I talked a little bit about a process solution to that problem I called it that you have to try learn modify and what that model try learn modify was for anybody in the app dev space it was basically taking the principles of agile and DevOps and applying those more broadly to business processes in technology organizations and ultimately organizations broadly this idea of you don't have to know what your ultimate destination is but you can try and experiment you can learn from those things and you can move forward and so that I do think in technology organizations we've seen tremendous progress even over the last year as organizations are adopting agile endeavor and so that still continues to be I think a great way for people to to configure their processes for change but this year we've seen some great examples of organizations taking a different tack to that problem and that's literally building modularity into their structures themselves right actually building the idea that change is going to happen into how you're laying out your technology architectures right we've all seen the reverse of that when you build these optimized systems for you know kind of one environment you kind of flip over two years later what was the optimized system it's now called a legacy system that needs to be migrated that's an optimized system that now has to be moved to a new environment because the world has changed so again you'll see a great example of that in a few minutes here on stage next this concept of enabled double-clicking on that a little bit so much of what we've done in technology over the past few years has been around automation how do we actually replace things that people were doing with technology or augmenting what people are doing with technology and that's incredibly important and that's work that can continue to go forward it needs to happen it's not really what I'm talking about here though enablement in this case it's much more around how do you make sure individuals are getting the context they need how are you making sure that they're getting the information they need how are you making sure they're getting the tools they need to make decisions on the spot so it's less about automating what people are doing and more about how can you better enable people with tools and technology now from a leadership perspective that's around making sure people understand the strategy of the company the context in which they're working in making sure you've set the appropriate values etc etc from a technology perspective that's ensuring that you're building the right systems that allow the right information the right tools at the right time to the right people now to some extent even that might not be hard but when the world is constantly changing that gets to be even harder and I think that's one of the reasons we see a lot of traction and open source to solve these problems to use flexible systems to help enterprises be able to enable their people not just in it today but to be flexible going forward and again we'll see some great examples of that and finally engagement so again if execution can't be around driving compliance to a plan because you no longer have this kind of Cris plan well what do leaders do how do organizations operate and so you know I'll broadly use the term engagement several of our customers have used this term and this is really saying well how do you engage your people in real-time to make the right decisions how do you accelerate a pace of cadence how do you operate at a different speed so you can react to change and take advantage of opportunities as they arise and everywhere we look IT is a key enabler of this right in the past IT was often seen as an inhibitor to this because the IT systems move slower than the business might want to move but we are seeing with some of these new technologies that literally IT is becoming the enabler and driving the pace of change back on to the business and you'll again see some great examples of that as well so again rather than listen to me sit here and theoretically talk about these things or refer to what we've seen others doing I thought it'd be much more interesting to bring some of our partners and our customers up here to specifically talk about what they're doing so I'm really excited to have a great group of customers who have agreed to stand in front of 7,500 people or however many here this morning and talk a little bit more about what they're doing so really excited to have them here and really appreciate all them agreeing to be a part of this and so to start I want to start with tee systems we have the CEO of tee systems here and I think this is a great story because they're really two parts to it right because he has two perspectives one is as the CEO of a global company itself having to navigate its way through digital disruption and as a global cloud service provider obviously helping its customers through this same type of change so I'm really thrilled to have a del hasta li join me on stage to talk a little bit about T systems and what they're doing and what we're doing jointly together so Adelle [Music] Jim took to see you Adele thank you for being here you for having me please join me I love to DJ when that fantastic we may have to hire him no more events for events where's well employed he's well employed though here that team do not give him mics activation it's great to have you here really do appreciate it well you're the CEO of a large organization that's going through this disruption in the same way we are I'd love to hear a little bit how for your company you're thinking about you know navigating this change that we're going through great well you know key systems as an ICT service provider we've been around for decades I'm not different to many of our clients we had to change the whole disruption of the cloud and digitization and new skills and new capability and agility it's something we had to face as well so over the last five years and especially in the last three years we invested heavily invested over a billion euros in building new capabilities building new offerings new infrastructures to support our clients so to be very disruptive for us as well and so and then with your customers themselves they're going through this set of change and you're working to help them how are you working to help enable your your customers as they're going through this change well you know all of them you know in this journey of changing the way they run their business leveraging IT much more to drive business results digitization and they're all looking for new skills new ideas they're looking for platforms that take them away from traditional waterfall development that takes a year or a year and a half before they see any results to processes and ways of bringing applications in a week in a month etcetera so it's it's we are part of that journey with them helping them for that and speaking of that I know we're working together and to help our joint customers with that can you talk a little bit more about what we're doing together sure well you know our relationship goes back years and years with with the Enterprise Linux but over the last few years we've invested heavily in OpenShift and OpenStack to build peope as layers to build you know flexible infrastructure for our clients and we've been working with you we tested many different technology in the marketplace and been more successful with Red Hat and the stack there and I'll give you an applique an example several large European car manufacturers who have connected cars now as a given have been accelerating the applications that needed to be in the car and in the past it took them years if not you know scores to get an application into the car and today we're using open shift as the past layer to develop to enable these DevOps for these companies and they bring applications in less than a month and it's a huge change in the dynamics of the competitiveness in the marketplace and we rely on your team and in helping us drive that capability to our clients yeah do you find it fascinating so many of the stories that you hear and that we've talked about with with our customers is this need for speed and this ability to accelerate and enable a greater degree of innovation by simply accelerating what what we're seeing with our customers absolutely with that plus you know the speed is important agility is really critical but doing it securely doing it doing it in a way that is not gonna destabilize the you know the broader ecosystem is really critical and things like GDP are which is a new security standard in Europe is something that a lot of our customers worry about they need help with and we're one of the partners that know what that really is all about and how to navigate within that and use not prevent them from using the new technologies yeah I will say it isn't just the speed of the external but the security and the regulation especially GDR we have spent an hour on that with our board this week there you go he said well thank you so much for being here really to appreciate the work that we're doing together and look forward to continued same here thank you thank you [Applause] we've had a great partnership with tea systems over the years and we've really taken it to the next level and what's really exciting about that is you know we've moved beyond just helping kind of host systems for our customers we really are jointly enabling their success and it's really exciting and we're really excited about what we're able to to jointly accomplish so next i'm really excited that we have our innovation award winners here and we'll have on stage with us our innovation award winners this year our BBVA dnm IAG lasat Lufthansa Technik and UPS and yet they're all working in one for specific technology initiatives that they're doing that really really stand out and are really really exciting you'll have a chance to learn a lot more about those through the course of the event over the next couple of days but in this context what I found fascinating is they were each addressing a different point of this configure enable engage and I thought it would be really great for you all to hear about how they're experimenting and working to solve these problems you know real-time large organizations you know happening now let's start with the video to see what they think about when they think about innovation I define innovation is something that's changing the model changing the way of thinking not just a step change improvement not just making something better but actually taking a look at what already exists and then putting them together in new and exciting lives innovation is about to build something nobody has done before historically we had a statement that business drives technology we flip that equation around an IT is now demonstrating to the business at power of technology innovation desde el punto de vista de la tecnología supone salir de plataform as proprietary as ADA Madero cloud basado an open source it's a possibility the open source que no parameter no sir Kamala and I think way that for me open-source stands for flexibility speed security the community and that contribution from the community is really driving innovation innovation at a pace that I don't think our one individual organization could actually do ourselves right so first I'd like to talk with BBVA I love this story because as you know Financial Services is going through a massive set of transformations and BBVA really is at the leading edge of thinking about how to deploy a hybrid cloud strategy and kind of modular layered architecture to be successful regardless of what happens in the future so with that I'd like to welcome on stage Jose Maria Rosetta from BBVA [Music] thank you for being here and congratulations on your innovation award it's been a pleasure to be here with you it's great to have you hi everybody so Josemaria for those who might not be familiar with BBVA can you give us a little bit of background on your company yeah a brief description BBVA is is a bank as a financial institution with diversified business model and that provides well financial services to more than 73 million of customers in more than 20 countries great and I know we've worked with you for a long time so we appreciate that the partnership with you so I thought I'd start with a really easy question for you how will blockchain you know impact financial services in the next five years I've gotten no idea but if someone knows the answer I've got a job for him for him up a pretty good job indeed you know oh all right well let me go a little easier then so how will the global payments industry change in the next you know four or five years five years well I think you need a a Weezer well I tried to make my best prediction means that in five years just probably will be five years older good answer I like that I always abstract up I hope so I hope so yah-yah-yah hope so good point so you know immediately that's the obvious question you have a massive technology infrastructure is a global bank how do you prepare yourself to enable the organization to be successful when you really don't know what the future is gonna be well global banks and wealth BBBS a global gam Bank a certain component foundations you know today I would like to talk about risk and efficiency so World Bank's deal with risk with the market great the operational reputational risk and so on so risk control is part of all or DNA you know and when you've got millions of customers you know efficiency efficiency is a must so I think there's no problem with all these foundations they problem the problem analyze the problems appears when when banks translate these foundations is valued into technology so risk control or risk management avoid risk usually means by the most expensive proprietary technology in the market you know from one of the biggest software companies in the world you know so probably all of you there are so those people in the room were glad to hear you say that yeah probably my guess the name of those companies around San Francisco most of them and efficiency usually means a savory business unit as every department or country has his own specific needs by a specific solution for them so imagine yourself working in a data center full of silos with many different Hardware operating systems different languages and complex interfaces to communicate among them you know not always documented what really never documented so your life your life in is not easy you know in this scenario are well there's no room for innovation so what's been or or strategy be BES ready to move forward in this new digital world well we've chosen a different approach which is quite simple is to replace all local proprietary system by a global platform based on on open source with three main goals you know the first one is reduce the average transaction cost to one-third the second one is increase or developers productivity five times you know and the third is enable or delete the business be able to deliver solutions of three times faster so you're not quite easy Wow and everything with the same reliability as on security standards as we've got today Wow that is an extraordinary set of objectives and I will say their world on the path of making that successful which is just amazing yeah okay this is a long journey sometimes a tough journey you know to be honest so we decided to partnership with the with the best companies in there in the world and world record we think rate cut is one of these companies so we think or your values and your knowledge is critical for BBVA and well as I mentioned before our collaboration started some time ago you know and just an example in today in BBVA a Spain being one of the biggest banks in in the country you know and using red hat technology of course our firm and fronting architecture you know for mobile and internet channels runs the ninety five percent of our customers request this is approximately 3,000 requests per second and our back in architecture execute 70 millions of business transactions a day this is almost a 50% of total online transactions executed in the country so it's all running yes running I hope so you check for you came on stage it's I'll be flying you know okay good there's no wood up here to knock on it's been a really great partnership it's been a pleasure yeah thank you so much for being here thank you thank you [Applause] I do love that story because again so much of what we talk about when we when we talk about preparing for digital is a processed solution and again things like agile and DevOps and modular izing components of work but this idea of thinking about platforms broadly and how they can run anywhere and actually delivering it delivering at a scale it's just a phenomenal project and experience and in the progress they've made it's a great team so next up we have two organizations that have done an exceptional job of enabling their people with the right information and the tools they need to be successful you know in both of these cases these are organizations who are under constant change and so leveraging the power of open-source to help them build these tools to enable and you'll see it the size and the scale of these in two very very different contexts it's great to see and so I'd like to welcome on stage Oh smart alza' with dnm and David Abraham's with IAG [Music] Oh smart welcome thank you so much for being here Dave great to see you thank you appreciate you being here and congratulations to you both on winning the Innovation Awards thank you so Omar I really found your story fascinating and how you're able to enable your people with data which is just significantly accelerated the pace with which they can make decisions and accelerate your ability to to act could you tell us a little more about the project and then what you're doing Jim and Tina when the muchisimas gracias por ever say interesado pono true projecto [Music] encargado registry controller las entradas a leda's persona por la Frontera argentina yo sé de dos siento treinta siete puestos de contrôle tienen lo largo de la Frontera tanto area the restreamer it EEMA e if looool in dilute ammonia shame or cinta me Jonas the tránsito sacra he trod on in another Fronteras dingus idea idea de la Magneto la cual estamos hablando la Frontera cantina tienen extension the kin same in kilo metros esto es el gada mint a maje or allege Estancia kaeun a poor carretera a la co de mexico con el akka a direction emulation s 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calidad de vida de atras de mettre personas SI y meet our que el delito perform a trois Natura from Dana's Argentine sigue siendo en favor de esto SI temes uno de los países mess Alberto's Allah immigration en Latin America yah hora con una plataforma mas segunda first of all I want to thank you for the interest is played for our project the National migration administration or diem records the entry and exit of people on the Argentine territory it grants residents permits to foreigners who wish to live in our country through 237 entry points land air border sea and river ways Jim dnm registered over 80 million transits throughout last year Argentine borders cover about 15,000 kilometers just our just to give you an idea of the magnitude of our borders this is greater than the distance on a highway between Mexico City and Alaska our department applies the mechanisms that prevent the entry and residents of people involved in crimes like terrorism trafficking of persons weapons drugs and others in 2016 we shifted to a more preventive and predictive paradigm that is how Sam's the system for migration analysis was created with red hats great assistance and support this allowed us to tackle the challenge of integrating multiple and varied issues legal issues police databases national and international security organizations like Interpol API advanced passenger information and PNR passenger name record this involved starting private cloud with OpenShift Rev data virtualization cloud forms and fuse that were the basis to develop Sam and implementing machine learning models and artificial intelligence our analysts consulted a number of systems and other manual files before 2016 4 days for each person entering or leaving the country so this has allowed us to optimize our decisions making them in real time each time Sam is consulted it processes patterns of over two billion data entries Sam's aim is to improve the quality of life of our citizens and visitors making sure that crime doesn't pierce our borders in an environment of analytic evolution and constant improvement in essence Sam contributes toward Argentina being one of the leaders in Latin America in terms of immigration with our new system great thank you and and so Dave tell us a little more about the insurance industry and the challenges in the EU face yeah sure so you know in the insurance industry it's a it's been a bit sort of insulated from a lot of major change in disruption just purely from the fact that it's highly regulated and the cost of so that the barrier to entry is quite high in fact if you think about insurance you know you have to have capital reserves to protect against those major events like floods bush fires and so on but the whole thing is a lot of change there's come in a really rapid pace I'm also in the areas of customer expectations you know customers and now looking and expecting for the same levels of flexibility and convenience that they would experience with more modern and new startups they're expecting out of the older institutions like banks and insurance companies like us so definitely expecting the industry to to be a lot more adaptable and to better meet their needs I think the other aspect of it really is in the data the data area where I think that the donor is now creating a much more significant connection between organizations in a car summers especially when you think about the level of devices that are now enabled and the sheer growth of data that's that that's growing at exponential rates so so that the impact then is that the systems that we used to rely on are the technology we used to rely on to be able to handle that kind of growth no longer keeps up and is able to to you know build for the future so we need to sort of change that so what I G's really doing is transform transforming the organization to become a lot more efficient focus more on customers and and really set ourselves up to be agile and adaptive and so ya know as part of your Innovation Award that the specific set of projects you tied a huge amount of different disparate systems together and with M&A and other you have a lot to do there to you tell us a little more about kind of how you're able to better respond to customer needs by being able to do that yeah no you're right so we've we've we're nearly a hundred year old company that's grown from lots of merger and acquisition and just as a result of that that means that data's been sort of spread out and fragmented across multiple brands and multiple products and so the number one sort of issue and problem that we were hearing was that it was too hard to get access to data and it's highly complicated which is not great from a company from our perspective really because because we are a data company right that's what we do we we collect data about people what they what's important to them what they value and the environment in which they live so that we can understand that risk and better manage and protect those people so what we're doing is we're trying to make and what we have been doing is making data more open and accessible and and by that I mean making data more of easily available for people to use it to make decisions in their day-to-day activity and to do that what we've done is built a single data platform across the group that unifies the data into a single source of truth that we can then build on top of that single views of customers for example that puts the right information into the into the hands of the people that need it the most and so now why does open source play such a big part in doing that I know there are a lot of different solutions that could get you there sure well firstly I think I've been sauce has been k2 these and really it's been key because we've basically started started from scratch to build this this new next-generation data platform based on entirely open-source you know using great components like Kafka and Postgres and airflow and and and and and then fundamentally building on top of red Red Hat OpenStack right to power all that and they give us the flexibility that we need to be able to make things happen much faster for example we were just talking to the pivotal guys earlier this week here and some of the stuff that we're doing they're they're things quite interesting innovative writes even sort of maybe first in the world where we've taken the older sort of appliance and dedicated sort of massive parallel processing unit and ported that over onto red Red Hat OpenStack right which is now giving us a lot more flexibility for scale in a much more efficient way but you're right though that we've come from in the past a more traditional approach to to using vendor based technology right which was good back then when you know technology solutions could last for around 10 years or so on and and that was fine but now that we need to move much faster we've had to rethink that and and so our focus has been on using you know more commoditized open source technology built by communities to give us that adaptability and sort of remove the locking in there any entrenchment of technology so that's really helped us but but I think that the last point that's been really critical to us is is answering that that concern and question about ongoing support and maintenance right so you know in a regular environment the regulator is really concerned about anything that could fundamentally impact business operation and and so the question is always about what happens when something goes wrong who's going to be there to support you which is where the value of the the partnership we have with Red Hat has really come into its own right and what what it's done is is it's actually giving us the best of both worlds a means that we can we can leverage and use and and and you know take some of the technology that's being developed by great communities in the open source way but also partner with a trusted partner in red had to say you know they're going to stand behind that community and provide that support when we needed the most so that's been the kind of the real value out of that partnership okay well I appreciate I love the story it's how do you move quickly leverage the power community but do it in a safe secure way and I love the idea of your literally empowering people with machine learning and AI at the moment when they need it it's just an incredible story so thank you so much for being here appreciate it thank you [Applause] you know again you see in these the the importance of enabling people with data and in an old-world was so much data was created with a system in mind versus data is a separate asset that needs to be available real time to anyone is a theme we hear over and over and over again and so you know really looking at open source solutions that allow that flexibility and keep data from getting locked into proprietary silos you know is a theme that we've I've heard over and over over the past year with many of our customers so I love logistics I'm a geek that way I come from that background in the past and I know that running large complex operations requires flawless execution and that requires great data and we have two great examples today around how to engage own organizations in new and more effective ways in the case of lufthansa technik literally IT became the business so it wasn't enabling the business it became the business offering and importantly went from idea to delivery to customers in a hundred days and so this theme of speed and the importance of speed it's a it's a great story you'll hear more about and then also at UPS UPS again I talked a little earlier about IT used to be kind of the long pole in the tent the thing that was slow moving because of the technology but UPS is showing that IT can actually drive the business and the cadence of business even faster by demonstrating the power and potential of technology to engage in this case hundreds of thousands of people to make decisions real-time in the face of obviously constant change around weather mechanicals and all the different things that can happen in a large logistics operation like that so I'd like to welcome on stage to be us more from Lufthansa Technik and Nick Castillo from ups to be us welcome thank you for being here Nick thank you thank you Jim and congratulations on your Innovation Awards oh thank you it's a great honor so to be us let's start with you can you tell us a little bit more about what a viet are is yeah avatars are a digital platform offering features like aircraft condition analytics reliability management and predictive maintenance and it helps airlines worldwide to digitize and improve their operations so all of the features work and can be used separately or generate even more where you burn combined and finally we decided to set up a viet as an open platform that means that we avoid the whole aviation industry to join the community and develop ideas on our platform and to be as one of things i found really fascinating about this is that you had a mandate to do this at a hundred days and you ultimately delivered on it you tell us a little bit about that i mean nothing in aviation moves that fast yeah that's been a big challenge so in the beginning of our story the Lufthansa bot asked us to develop somehow digital to win of an aircraft within just hundred days and to deliver something of value within 100 days means you cannot spend much time and producing specifications in terms of paper etc so for us it was pretty clear that we should go for an angel approach and immediately start and developing ideas so we put the best experts we know just in one room and let them start to work and on day 2 I think we already had the first scribbles for the UI on day 5 we wrote the first lines of code and we were able to do that because it has been a major advantage for us to already have four technologies taken place it's based on open source and especially rated solutions because we did not have to waste any time setting up the infrastructure and since we wanted to get feedback very fast we were certainly visited an airline from the Lufthansa group already on day 30 and showed them the first results and got a lot of feedback and because from the very beginning customer centricity has been an important aspect for us and changing the direction based on customer feedback has become quite normal for us over time yeah it's an interesting story not only engaging the people internally but be able to engage with a with that with a launch customer like that and get feedback along the way as it's great thing how is it going overall since launch yeah since the launch last year in April we generated much interest in the industry as well from Airlines as from competitors and in the following month we focused on a few Airlines which had been open minded and already advanced in digital activities and we've got a lot of feedback by working with them and we're able to improve our products by developing new features for example we learned that data integration can become quite complex in the industry and therefore we developed a new feature called quick boarding allowing Airlines to integrate into the via table platform within one day using a self-service so and currently we're heading for the next steps beyond predictive maintenance working on process automation and prescriptive prescriptive maintenance because we believe prediction without fulfillment still isn't enough it really is a great example of even once you're out there quickly continuing to innovate change react it's great to see so Nick I mean we all know ups I'm still always blown away by the size and scale of the company and the logistics operations that you run you tell us a little more about the project and what we're doing together yeah sure Jim and you know first of all I think I didn't get the sportcoat memo I think I'm the first one up here today with a sport coat but you know first on you know on behalf of the 430,000 ups was around the world and our just world-class talented team of 5,000 IT professionals I have to tell you we're humbled to be one of this year's red hat Innovation Award recipients so we really appreciate that you know as a global logistics provider we deliver about 20 million packages each day and we've got a portfolio of technologies both operational and customer tech and another customer facing side the power what we call the UPS smart logistics network and I gotta tell you innovations in our DNA technology is at the core of everything we do you know from the ever familiar first and industry mobile platform that a lot of you see when you get delivered a package which we call the diad which believe it or not we delivered in 1992 my choice a data-driven solution that drives over 40 million of our my choice customers I'm whatever you know what this is great he loves logistics he's a my choice customer you could be one too by the way there's a free app in the App Store but it provides unmatched visibility and really controls that last mile delivery experience so now today we're gonna talk about the solution that we're recognized for which is called site which is part of a much greater platform that we call edge which is transforming how our package delivery teams operate providing them real-time insights into our operations you know this allows them to make decisions based on data from 32 disparate data sources and these insights help us to optimize our operations but more importantly they help us improve the delivery experience for our customers just like you Jim you know on the on the back end is Big Data and it's on a large scale our systems are crunching billions of events to render those insights on an easy-to-use mobile platform in real time I got to tell you placing that information in our operators hands makes ups agile and being agile being able to react to changing conditions as you know is the name of the game in logistics now we built edge in our private cloud where Red Hat technologies play a very important role as part of our overage overarching cloud strategy and our migration to agile and DevOps so it's it's amazing it's amazing the size and scale so so you have this technology vision around engaging people in a more effect way those are my word not yours but but I'd be at that's how it certainly feels and so tell us a little more about how that enables the hundreds of thousands people to make better decisions every day yep so you know we're a people company and the edge platform is really the latest in a series of solutions to really empower our people and really power that smart logistics network you know we've been deploying technology believe it or not since we founded the company in 1907 we'll be a hundred and eleven years old this August it's just a phenomenal story now prior to edge and specifically the syphon ishutin firm ation from a number of disparate systems and reports they then need to manually look across these various data sources and and frankly it was inefficient and prone to inaccuracy and it wasn't really real-time at all now edge consumes data as I mentioned earlier from 32 disparate systems it allows our operators to make decisions on staffing equipment the flow of packages through the buildings in real time the ability to give our people on the ground the most up-to-date data allows them to make informed decisions now that's incredibly empowering because not only are they influencing their local operations but frankly they're influencing the entire global network it's truly extraordinary and so why open source and open shift in particular as part of that solution yeah you know so as I mentioned Red Hat and Red Hat technology you know specifically open shift there's really core to our cloud strategy and to our DevOps strategy the tools and environments that we've partnered with Red Hat to put in place truly are foundational and they've fundamentally changed the way we develop and deploy our systems you know I heard Jose talk earlier you know we had complex solutions that used to take 12 to 18 months to develop and deliver to market today we deliver those same solutions same level of complexity in months and even weeks now openshift enables us to container raise our workloads that run in our private cloud during normal operating periods but as we scale our business during our holiday peak season which is a very sure window about five weeks during the year last year as a matter of fact we delivered seven hundred and sixty-two million packages in that small window and our transactions our systems they just spiked dramatically during that period we think that having open shift will allow us in those peak periods to seamlessly move workloads to the public cloud so we can take advantage of burst capacity economically when needed and I have to tell you having this flexibility I think is key because you know ultimately it's going to allow us to react quickly to customer demands when needed dial back capacity when we don't need that capacity and I have to say it's a really great story of UPS and red hat working you together it really is a great story is just amazing again the size and scope but both stories here a lot speed speed speed getting to market quickly being able to try things it's great lessons learned for all of us the importance of being able to operate at a fundamentally different clock speed so thank you all for being here very much appreciated congratulate thank you [Applause] [Music] alright so while it's great to hear from our Innovation Award winners and it should be no surprise that they're leading and experimenting in some really interesting areas its scale so I hope that you got a chance to learn something from these interviews you'll have an opportunity to learn more about them you'll also have an opportunity to vote on the innovator of the year you can do that on the Red Hat summit mobile app or on the Red Hat Innovation Awards homepage you can learn even more about their stories and you'll have a chance to vote and I'll be back tomorrow to announce the the summit winner so next I like to spend a few minutes on talking about how Red Hat is working to catalyze our customers efforts Marko bill Peter our senior vice president of customer experience and engagement and John Alessio our vice president of global services will both describe areas in how we are working to configure our own organization to effectively engage with our customers to use open source to help drive their success so with that I'd like to welcome marquel on stage [Music] good morning good morning thank you Jim so I want to spend a few minutes to talk about how we are configured how we are configured towards your success how we enable internally as well to work towards your success and actually engage as well you know Paul yesterday talked about the open source culture and our open source development net model you know there's a lot of attributes that we have like transparency meritocracy collaboration those are the key of our culture they made RedHat what it is today and what it will be in the future but we also added our passion for customer success to that let me tell you this is kind of the configuration from a cultural perspective let me tell you a little bit on what that means so if you heard the name my organization is customer experience and engagement right in the past we talked a lot about support it's an important part of the Red Hat right and how we are configured we are configured probably very uniquely in the industry we put support together we have product security in there we add a documentation we add a quality engineering into an organization you think there's like wow why are they doing it we're also running actually the IT team for actually the product teams why are we doing that now you can imagine right we want to go through what you see as well right and I'll give you a few examples on how what's coming out of this configuration we invest more and more in testing integration and use cases which you are applying so you can see it between the support team experiencing a lot what you do and actually changing our test structure that makes a lot of sense we are investing more and more testing outside the boundaries so not exactly how things must fall by product management or engineering but also how does it really run in an environment that you operate we run complex setups internally right taking openshift putting in OpenStack using software-defined storage underneath managing it with cloud forms managing it if inside we do that we want to see how that works right we are reshaping documentation console to kind of help you better instead of just documenting features and knobs as in how can how do you want to achieve things now part of this is the configuration that are the big part of the configuration is the voice of the customer to listen to what you say I've been here at Red Hat a few years and one of my passion has always been really hearing from customers how they do it I travel constantly in the world and meet with customers because I want to know what is really going on we use channels like support we use channels like getting from salespeople the interaction from customers we do surveys we do you know we interact with our people to really hear what you do what we also do what maybe not many know and it's also very unique in the industry we have a webpage called you asked reacted we show very transparently you told us this is an area for improvement and it's not just in support it's across the company right build us a better web store build us this we're very transparent about Hades improvements we want to do with you now if you want to be part of the process today go to the feedback zone on the next floor down and talk to my team I might be there as well hit me up we want to hear the feedback this is how we talk about configuration of the organization how we are configured let me go to let me go to another part which is innovation innovation every day and that in my opinion the enable section right we gotta constantly innovate ourselves how do we work with you how do we actually provide better value how do we provide faster responses in support this is what we would I say is is our you know commitment to innovation which is the enabling that Jim talked about and I give you a few examples which I'm really happy and it kind of shows the open source culture at Red Hat our commitment is for innovation I'll give you good example right if you have a few thousand engineers and you empower them you kind of set the business framework as hey this is an area we got to do something you get a lot of good IDs you get a lot of IDs and you got a shape an inter an area that hey this is really something that brings now a few years ago we kind of said or I say is like based on a lot of feedback is we got to get more and more proactive if you customers and so I shaped my team and and I shaped it around how can we be more proactive it started very simple as in like from kbase articles or knowledgebase articles in getting started guys then we started a a tool that we put out called labs you've probably seen them if you're on the technical side really taking small applications out for you to kind of validate is this configured correctly stat configure there was the start then out of that the ideas came and they took different turns and one of the turns that we came out was right at insights that we launched a few years ago and did you see the demo yesterday that in Paul's keynote that they showed how something was broken with one the data centers how it was applied to fix and how has changed this is how innovation really came from the ground up from the support side and turned into something really a being a cornerstone of our strategy and we're keeping it married from the day to day work right you don't want to separate this you want to actually keep that the data that's coming from the support goes in that because that's the power that we saw yesterday in the demo now innovation doesn't stop when you set the challenge so we did the labs we did the insights we just launched a solution engine called solution engine another thing that came out of that challenge is in how do we break complex issues down that it's easier for you to find a solution quicker it's one example but we're also experimenting with AI so insights uses AI as you probably heard yesterday we also use it internally to actually drive faster resolution we did in one case with a a our I bought basically that we get to 25% faster resolution on challenges that you have the beauty for you obviously it's well this is much faster 10% of all our support cases today are supported and assisted by an AI now I'll give you another example of just trying to tell you the innovation that comes out if you configure and enable the team correctly kbase articles are knowledgebase articles we q8 thousands and thousands every year and then I get feedback as and while they're good but they're in English as you can tell my English is perfect so it's not no issue for that but for many of you is maybe like even here even I read it in Japanese so we actually did machine translation because it's too many that we can do manually the using machine translation I can tell it's a funny example two weeks ago I tried it I tried something from English to German I looked at it the German looked really bad I went back but the English was bad so it really translates one to one actually what it does but it's really cool this is innovation that you can apply and the team actually worked on this and really proud on that now the real innovation there is not these tools the real innovation is that you can actually shape it in a way that the innovation comes that you empower the people that's the configure and enable and what I think is all it's important this don't reinvent the plumbing don't start from scratch use systems like containers on open shift to actually build the innovation in a smaller way without reinventing the plumbing you save a lot of issues on security a lot of issues on reinventing the wheel focus on that that's what we do as well if you want to hear more details again go in the second floor now let's talk about the engage that Jim mentioned before what I translate that engage is actually engaging you as a customer towards your success now what does commitment to success really mean and I want to reflect on that on a traditional IT company shows up with you talk the salesperson solution architect works with you consulting implements solution it comes over to support and trust me in a very traditional way the support guy has no clue what actually was sold early on it's what happens right and this is actually I think that red had better that we're not so silent we don't show our internal silos or internal organization that much today we engage in a way it doesn't matter from which team it comes we have a better flow than that you deserve how the sausage is made but we can never forget what was your business objective early on now how is Red Hat different in this and we are very strong in my opinion you might disagree but we are very strong in a virtual accounting right really putting you in the middle and actually having a solution architect work directly with support or consulting involved and driving that together you can also help us in actually really embracing that model if that's also other partners or system integrators integrate put yourself in the middle be around that's how we want to make sure that we don't lose sight of the original business problem trust me reducing the hierarchy or getting rid of hierarchy and bureaucracy goes a long way now this is how we configured this is how we engage and this is how we are committed to your success with that I'm going to introduce you to John Alessio that talks more about some of the innovation done with customers thank you [Music] good morning I'm John Alessio I'm the vice president of Global Services and I'm delighted to be with you here today I'd like to talk to you about a couple of things as it relates to what we've been doing since the last summit in the services organization at the core of everything we did it's very similar to what Marco talked to you about our number one priority is driving our customer success with red hat technology and as you see here on the screen we have a number of different offerings and capabilities all the way from training certification open innovation labs consulting really pairing those capabilities together with what you just heard from Marco in the support or cee organization really that's the journey you all go through from the beginning of discovering what your business challenge is all the way through designing those solutions and deploying them with red hat now the highlight like to highlight a few things of what we've been up to over the last year so if I start with the training and certification team they've been very busy over the last year really updating enhancing our curriculum if you haven't stopped by the booth there's a preview for new capability around our learning community which is a new way of learning and really driving that enable meant in the community because 70% of what you need to know you learned from your peers and so it's a very key part of our learning strategy and in fact we take customer satisfaction with our training and certification business very seriously we survey all of our students coming out of training 93% of our students tell us they're better prepared because of red hat training and certification after Weeds they've completed the course we've updated the courses and we've trained well over a hundred and fifty thousand people over the last two years so it's a very very key part of our strategy and that combined with innovation labs and the consulting operation really drive that overall journey now we've been equally busy in enhancing the system of enablement and support for our business partners another very very key initiative is building out the ecosystem we've enhanced our open platform which is online partner enablement network we've added new capability and in fact much of the training and enablement that we do for our internal consultants our deal is delivered through the open platform now what I'm really impressed with and thankful for our partners is how they are consuming and leveraging this material we train and enable for sales for pre-sales and for delivery and we're up over 70% year in year in our partners that are enabled on RedHat technology let's give our business partners a round of applause now one of our offerings Red Hat open innovation labs I'd like to talk a bit more about and take you through a case study open innovation labs was created two years ago it's really there to help you on your journey in adopting open source technology it's an immersive experience where your team will work side-by-side with Red Hatters to really propel your journey forward in adopting open source technology and in fact we've been very busy since the summit in Boston as you'll see coming up on the screen we've completed dozens of engagements leveraging our methods tools and processes for open innovation labs as you can see we've worked with large and small accounts in fact if you remember summit last year we had a European customer easier AG on stage which was a startup and we worked with them at the very beginning of their business to create capabilities in a very short four-week engagement but over the last year we've also worked with very large customers such as Optim and Delta Airlines here in North America as well as Motability operations in the European arena one of the accounts I want to spend a little bit more time on is Heritage Bank heritage Bank is a community owned bank in Toowoomba Australia their challenge was not just on creating new innovative technology but their challenge was also around cultural transformation how to get people to work together across the silos within their organization we worked with them at all levels of the organization to create a new capability the first engagement went so well that they asked us to come in into a second engagement so I'd like to do now is run a video with Peter lock the chief executive officer of Heritage Bank so he can take you through their experience Heritage Bank is one of the country's oldest financial institutions we have to be smarter we have to be more innovative we have to be more agile we had to change we had to find people to help us make that change the Red Hat lab is the only one that truly helps drive that change with a business problem the change within the team is very visible from the start to now we've gone from being separated to very single goal minded seeing people that I only ever seen before in their cubicles in the room made me smile programmers in their thinking I'm now understanding how the whole process fits together the productivity of IT will change and that is good for our business that's really the value that were looking for the Red Hat innovation labs for us were a really great experience I'm not interested in running an organization I'm interested in making a great organization to say I was pleasantly surprised by it is an understatement I was delighted I love the quote I was delighted makes my heart warm every time I see that video you know since we were at summit for those of you who are with us in Boston some of you went on our hardhat tours we've opened three physical facilities here at Red Hat where we can conduct red head open Innovation Lab engagements Singapore London and Boston were all opened within the last physical year and in fact our site in Boston is paired with our world-class executive briefing center as well so if you haven't been there please do check it out I'd like to now talk to you a bit about a very special engagement that we just recently completed we just recently completed an engagement with UNICEF the United Nations Children's Fund and the the purpose behind this engagement was really to help UNICEF create an open-source platform that marries big data with social good the idea is UNICEF needs to be better prepared to respond to emergency situations and as you can imagine emergency situations are by nature unpredictable you can't really plan for them they can happen anytime anywhere and so we worked with them on a project that we called school mapping and the idea was to provide more insights so that when emergency situations arise UNICEF could do a much better job in helping the children in the region and so we leveraged our Red Hat open innovation lab methods tools processes that you've heard about just like we did at Heritage Bank and the other accounts I mentioned but then we also leveraged Red Hat software technologies so we leveraged OpenShift container platform we leveraged ansible automation we helped the client with a more agile development approach so they could have releases much more frequently and continue to update this over time we created a continuous integration continuous deployment pipeline we worked on containers and container in the application etc with that we've been able to provide a platform that is going to allow for their growth to better respond to these emergency situations let's watch a short video on UNICEF mission of UNICEF innovation is to apply technology to the world's most pressing problems facing children data is changing the landscape of what we do at UNICEF this means that we can figure out what's happening now on the ground who it's happening to and actually respond to it in much more of a real-time manner than we used to be able to do we love working with open source communities because of their commitment that we should be doing good for the world we're actually with red hat building a sandbox where universities or other researchers or data scientists can connect and help us with our work if you want to use data for social good there's so many groups out there that really need your help and there's so many ways to get involved [Music] so let's give a very very warm red hat summit welcome to Erica kochi co-founder of unicef innovation well Erica first of all welcome to Red Hat summit thanks for having me here it's our pleasure and thank you for joining us so Erica I've just talked a bit about kind of what we've been up to and Red Hat services over the last year we talked a bit about our open innovation labs and we did this project the school mapping project together our two teams and I thought the audience might find it interesting from your point of view on why the approach we use in innovation labs was such a good fit for the school mapping project yeah it was a great fit for for two reasons the first is values everything that we do at UNICEF innovation we use open source technology and that's for a couple of reasons because we can take it from one place and very easily move it to other countries around the world we work in 190 countries so that's really important for us not to be able to scale things also because it makes sense we can get we can get more communities involved in this and look not just try to do everything by ourselves but look much open much more openly towards the open source communities out there to help us with our work we can't do it alone yeah and then the second thing is methodology you know the labs are really looking at taking this agile approach to prototyping things trying things failing trying again and that's really necessary when you're developing something new and trying to do something new like mapping every school in the world yeah very challenging work think about it 190 countries Wow and so the open source platform really works well and then the the rapid prototyping was really a good fit so I think the audience might find it interesting on how this application and this platform will help children in Latin America so in a lot of countries in Latin America and many countries throughout the world that UNICEF works in are coming out of either decades of conflict or are are subject to natural disasters and not great infrastructure so it's really important to a for us to know where schools are where communities are well where help is needed what's connected what's not and using a overlay of various sources of data from poverty mapping to satellite imagery to other sources we can really figure out what's happening where resources are where they aren't and so we can plan better to respond to emergencies and to and to really invest in areas that are needed that need that investment excellent excellent it's quite powerful what we were able to do in a relatively short eight or nine week engagement that our two teams did together now many of your colleagues in the audience are using open source today looking to expand their use of open source and I thought you might have some recommendations for them on how they kind of go through that journey and expanding their use of open source since your experience at that yeah for us it was it was very much based on what's this gonna cost we have limited resources and what's how is this gonna spread as quickly as possible mm-hmm and so we really asked ourselves those two questions you know about 10 years ago and what we realized is if we are going to be recommending technologies that governments are going to be using it really needs to be open source they need to have control over it yeah and they need to be working with communities not developing it themselves yeah excellent excellent so I got really inspired with what we were doing here in this project it's one of those you know every customer project is really interesting to me this one kind of pulls a little bit at your heartstrings on what the real impact could be here and so I know some of our colleagues here in the audience may want to get involved how can they get involved well there's many ways to get involved with the other UNICEF or other groups out there you can search for our work on github and there are tasks that you can do right now if and if you're looking for to do she's got work for you and if you want sort of a more a longer engagement or a bigger engagement you can check out our website UNICEF stories org and you can look at the areas you might be interested in and contact us we're always open to collaboration excellent well Erica thank you for being with us here today thank you for the great project we worked on together and have a great summer thank you for being give her a round of applause all right well I hope that's been helpful to you to give you a bit of an update on what we've been focused on in global services the message I'll leave with you is our top priority is customer success as you heard through the story from UNICEF from Heritage Bank and others we can help you innovate where you are today I hope you have a great summit and I'll call out Jim Whitehurst thank you John and thank you Erica that's really an inspiring story we have so many great examples of how individuals and organizations are stepping up to transform in the face of digital disruption I'd like to spend my last few minutes with one real-world example that brings a lot of this together and truly with life-saving impact how many times do you think you can solve a problem which is going to allow a clinician to now save the life I think the challenge all of his physicians are dealing with is data overload I probably look at over 100,000 images in a day and that's just gonna get worse what if it was possible for some computer program to look at these images with them and automatically flag images that might deserve better attention Chris on the surface seems pretty simple but underneath Chris has a lot going on in the past year I've seen Chris Foreman community and a space usually dominated by proprietary software I think Chris can change medicine as we know it today [Music] all right with that I'd like to invite on stage dr. Ellen grant from Boston Children's Hospital dr. grant welcome thank you for being here so dr. grant tell me who is Chris Chris does a lot of work for us and I think Chris is making me or has definitely the potential to make me a better doctor Chris helps us take data from our archives in the hospital and port it to wrap the fastback ends like the mass up and cloud to do rapid data processing and provide it back to me in any format on a desktop an iPad or an iPhone so it it basically brings high-end data analysis right to me at the bedside and that's been a barrier that I struggled with years ago to try to break down so that's where we started with Chris is to to break that barrier between research that occurred on a timeline of days to weeks to months to clinical practice which occurs in the timeline of seconds to minutes well one of things I found really fascinating about this story RedHat in case you can't tell we're really passionate about user driven innovation is this is an example of user driven innovation not directly at a technology company but in medicine excuse me can you tell us just a little bit about the genesis of Chris and how I got started yeah Chris got started when I was running a clinical division and I was very frustrated with not having the latest image analysis tools at my fingertips while I was on clinical practice and I would have to on the research so I could go over and you know do line code and do the data analysis but if I'm always over in clinical I kept forgetting how to do those things and I wanted to have all those innovations that my fingertips and not have to remember all the computer science because I'm a physician not like a better scientist so I wanted to build a platform that gave me easy access to that back-end without having to remember all the details and so that's what Chris does for us is brings allowed me to go into the PAC's grab a dataset send it to a computer and back in to do the analysis and bring it back to me without having to worry about where it was or how it got there that's all involved in the in the platform Chris and why not just go to a vendor and ask them to write a piece of software for you to do that yeah we thought about that and we do a lot of technical innovations and we always work with the experts so we wanted to work with if I'm going to be able to say an optical device I'm going to work with the optical engineers or an EM our system I'm going to work with em our engineers so we wanted to work with people who really knew or the plumbers so to speak of the software in industry so we ended up working with the massive point cloud for the platform and the distributed systems in Red Hat as the infrastructure that's starting to support Chris and that's been actually a really incredible journey for us because medical ready medical softwares not typically been a community process and that's something that working with dan from Red Hat we learned a lot about how to participate in an open community and I think our team has grown a lot as a result of that collaboration and I know you we've talked about in the past that getting this data locked into a proprietary system you may not be able to get out there's a real issue can you talk about the importance of open and how that's worked in the process yeah and I think for the medical community and I find this resonates with other physicians as well too is that it's medical data we want to continue to own and we feel very awkward about giving it to industry so we would rather have our data sitting in an open cloud like the mass open cloud where we can have a data consortium that oversees the data governance so that we're not giving our data way to somebody else but have a platform that we can still keep a control of our own data and I think it's going to be the future because we're running of a space in the hospital we generate so much data and it's just going to get worse as I was mentioning and all the systems run faster we get new devices so the amount of data that we have to filter through is just astronomically increasing so we need to have resources to store and compute on such large databases and so thinking about where this could go I mean this is a classic feels like an open-source project it started really really small with a originally modest set of goals and it's just kind of continue to grow and grow and grow it's a lot like if yes leanest torval Linux would be in 1995 you probably wouldn't think it would be where it is now so if you dream with me a little bit where do you think this could possibly go in the next five years ten years what I hope it'll do is allow us to break down the silos within the hospital because to do the best job at what we physicians do not only do we have to talk and collaborate together as individuals we have to take the data each each community develops and be able to bring it together so in other words I need to be able to bring in information from vital monitors from mr scans from optical devices from genetic tests electronic health record and be able to analyze on all that data combined so ideally this would be a platform that breaks down those information barriers in a hospital and also allows us to collaborate across multiple institutions because many disorders you only see a few in each hospital so we really have to work as teams in the medical community to combine our data together and also I'm hoping that and we even have discussions with people in the developing world because they have systems to generate or to got to create data or say for example an M R system they can't create data but they don't have the resources to analyze on it so this would be a portable for them to participate in this growing data analysis world without having to have the infrastructure there and be a portal into our back-end and we could provide the infrastructure to do the data analysis it really is truly amazing to see how it's just continued to grow and grow and expand it really is it's a phenomenal story thank you so much for being here appreciate it thank you [Applause] I really do love that story it's a great example of user driven innovation you know in a different industry than in technology and you know recognizing that a clinicians need for real-time information is very different than a researchers need you know in projects that can last weeks and months and so rather than trying to get an industry to pivot and change it's a great opportunity to use a user driven approach to directly meet those needs so we still have a long way to go we have two more days of the summit and as I said yesterday you know we're not here to give you all the answers we're here to convene the conversation so I hope you will have an opportunity today and tomorrow to meet some new people to share some ideas we're really really excited about what we can all do when we work together so I hope you found today valuable we still have a lot more happening on the main stage as well this afternoon please join us back for the general session it's a really amazing lineup you'll hear from the women and opensource Award winners you'll also hear more about our collab program which is really cool it's getting middle school girls interested in open sourcing coding and so you'll have an opportunity to see some people involved in that you'll also hear from the open source Story speakers and you'll including in that you will see a demo done by a technologist who happens to be 11 years old so really cool you don't want to miss that so I look forward to seeing you then this afternoon thank you [Applause]

(digital chime) (camera shutter) (bright pop music) >> Announcer: Live from New Orleans, Louisiana, it's theCUBE, covering .NEXT Conference 2018, brought to you by Nutanix. >> This is SiliconANGLE Media's production of theCUBE, live in New Orleans, Louisiana, I'm Stu Miniman, with my cohost Keith Townsend, happy to welcome back to the program, fresh off the keynote stage, marching band, you know, floats coming in, Mardi Gras atmosphere, and a slew of new products and updates. Sunil Potti, Chief Product & Development Officer at Nutanix. Sunil, thanks for joining us. >> Yeah, likewise Stu, anytime. >> Alright, so a lot that you covered in, so let's get into it, start with, you know, some of the broad company updates. We've been talking about this journey for making everything invisible. I'm waiting, the next time you're going to have the invisible man. Is a... no, no, no, you're putting the IT person forward. >> Yeah, you know we talk about that continuum between all the way from mainframes to like, whatever, HCI to now we've got cloud instance, hyper-converge, then cloud, and then there's functions. Then eventually we'll have NaaS, which is nothing as a service. Right, something like that, but I mean our journey I think of invisible infrastructure started off at hyper-convergence, so computing storage, and essentially it's just increased layers of convergence is how we see it, so if you can converge the networking stack, we converge the automation aspects, then we go in invisible data centers, and then eventually if you hyper-converge the cloud, CapEx and OpEx, public cloud, private clouds, distributed clouds, then you get an invisible cloud. So it's essentially, I think that's really how we've sort of professed this conference is invisible infrastructure evolving to invisible data centers to evolving to invisible clouds. >> You know, so Sunill, one of the things, if we've been talking to your customers, the question is, "Who is the Nutanix customer?" So, when we talked about kind of HCI, even before it was HCI, let's get ourselves out of the silos, you were working with the administrators and the architects. You've built some of these things, you know, you've got a new SaaS offering, you've got micro-segmentation. You're touching more of the business, and sometimes going up the stack too. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Who do you see as the primary customers? >> Yeah, I mean, I think for us, you know, if we just stayed as a broad HCI platform play, then we would probably be slowly making up our way of, between the server guys and the storage guys and maybe the director of infrastructure and so forth. And a lot of it has been groundswell movement for Nutanix over the last six, seven years, right? But, you know, this is what I talk about it to our customers, like when you actually go to cloud on AWS or GCP, there is no storage admin, there is no server admin, there's no one. There's only a cloud architect, and so I think that's what we've seen over the last few years is this evolution to this one single org called the cloud org within enterprises, and then you heard me say this before about this, you know eventually as we move up, our value up the stack, as we go from invisible infrastructure to clouds, our relevancy is also growing to the CIO, because the CIO can now be the CAO, which is the Chief Amazon Officer, or the Chief Alphabet, or the Chief Azure Officer, essentially the Chief Cloud Officer, where we can help them blur the lines between AWS inside, which is Nutanix, and then AWS outside. >> Yeah, I love that, because when we talk to customers, it's not "I'm building out "my multicloud, hybrid cloud, composite," whatever you want to call it, it's "We're "figuring out our digital transformation, "and we've got applications, we've got stuff we're SaaSifying, "there's cool things I've built, you know, "in the public cloud, and I've got, you know, "my data center and the transformation that "I'm going through there." So, the question I have for you is, what is Nutanix's position in the cloud? I didn't hear you going up on stage saying you're going to put five to 10 billion dollars a year into building out data centers and availability zones, and all those things there. Sometimes people misconstrue some of the journey and things like Zy, and they're like, "Oh, it rhymes with what Amazon's doing," or even many times, you know, similar services to an Amazon there, but partnerships with the public cloud providers, and you know, please help us set the record straight, that you're not standing up a public cloud. >> Yeah, I think look, we think increasingly the world, of the world of clouds is a dispersed world, right? I mean, you had to say that we think this construct called the core cloud, which is essentially both, you know, a private version and a public version that's harmonized together into this one enterprise core cloud, but then increasingly we are seeing cloud-like architecture in a remote office branch office or in a retail store, so we call that the distributed cloud, and then it's also with IOT especially, it's getting extended all the way to the edge, whether it be a one-node Nutanix deployment talking to a data center of clusters talking to GCP for machine learning. So we think that the world of clouds is going to emerge as the de facto standard, and public cloud just happens to be a big percentage of that. Private cloud will also be a decent percentage of that. So will these other clouds, so what we need is, I guess, one OS to bind them all, right? And that's the end goal for what we're embarking on, so one of the things that we've recognized is that one of different kinds of clouds is an extended enterprise cloud, where instead of having two primary data centers and two secondary data centers, and then having five cloud availability zones, why even be in the secondary business? What if the secondary data centers were subsumed into a cloud as a service, but you retained the same operational tooling as your primary data center? And that's really where Zy's footprint comes in is, it's to augment what a customer is going through's journey of private cloud or public cloud to this distributed cloud environment, that there will be some news cases that need to be fulfilled using the same cloud architecture. >> So Sunil, let's talk about the customer journey alongside Nutanix's journey. You guys are walking, term I heard a lot so far in the conference is, Nutanix is our partner, our partner in this journey in digital transformation. However, the customer today is very much infrastructure customers. You guys talk to developers, internal customers of your customers. What has been that story, and what has been that conversation? What have, what have you guys learned, and what have you taught your customers along the way? >> I mean I think it's, look we generally know, as I've mentioned on stage today, that we're in another decades worth of journey, as we go from invisible infrastructure to invisible clouds. That's not going to happen in six six months or so, but what we're finding is that, in the last, I would say four to five years, the view of what cloud can be used for, the "why" of cloud has changed. Initially, there used to be, "Oh, I need to get past IT," by developers, then it eventually became, "Oh, no, no, no, I need to use it as a way to, you know, to deliver a better IT." Now it's being used as a way to actually drive my business. And that's why we use the word digital transformation, just because it's a direct connotation to driving the top line, right? So, when you look at our customers and the journey that we're on, we also want to set expectations of what we are versus what we are not, right? So we're not about enabling the applications to be built, in the sense that, you know, we're not application software companies, but at the end of the day though, if we can abstract out all the, if I can call it, issues below an app and allow IT or the business to focus on a new org that we're calling, you know, the CIO and the CTO merged to be the CDO, right, the Chief Digital Officer, that becomes one org, and that's what we're seeing with many of our large customers is, many of our customers are, their orgs, either they were in the CIO organization, or the infrastructure organization, or the cloud organization, they're all now being merged into the CDO org, and the goal then becomes for it to power a digital transformation through various apps, but with our, essentially leveraging infrastructure as a boat anchor, right? It's more of an accelerator at that point. >> So, there's debate on where that ends, like you know, we can talk about with edge computing, like where does edge start and the core begin. The same thing with infrastructure. You guys made a really interesting announcement around your capability with databases today and being able to, I don't even know the term but, to put a prism-like experience to databases. Talk about those areas around what we've considered traditionally infrastructure, storage network compute, going to this middleware layer, where do you think you can help customers simplify their journey? >> I mean, I think just to recap, some of the ways that we've, you know, approached this year is, look we think about it as three layers of the cloud stack, which is we had computer storage virtualization and we sort of completed the IA stack with our Flow product, which delivers one-click secure networks. And then for the first time, even though our stack is good for running third-party workloads, just like the public cloud runs a lot of PaaS services, increasingly in enterprises, customers are asking for an opinionated view of a PaaS service. So we do have third-party partnerships with Cloudera, Hortonworks, a whole bunch of other third-party providers, but the core database workload, especially with Oracle being such a complex beast, but it's mainstream, the customer has said, "Look, "can you provide a one plus one "equals three kind of solution "for the world of database?" And that's what Nutanix Era is, and that sort of becomes sort of cornerstone of our first PaaS service, where we're trying to simplify database operations, including things like Oracle RAC, and that's what we demonstrated was to actually provision Oracle RAC in minutes, make clones, create dev instances, and democratize databases for the rest of developers using APIs. So that's the sort of evolution of the stack for us with Nutanix Era, and then we didn't stop there. We also sort of innovated with our first Nutanix SaaS service, with this product called Beam with the acquisition of Minjar, which essentially says, look multi-cloud needs to start with stability, and then obviously you enable control and then you add operational automation, and then visibility and so forth, right? So, with Beam there, it's sort of, sort of sets the stage for the fact that we can now add more to the multi-cloud portfolio. >> Sinil, Beam's an interesting one. Your first SaaS offering. Keith and I were talking before this. There are lots of companies out there that are trying to tackle this challenge. >> Sunil: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. >> With that have, you know, every single platform company out there is trying to tackle this, and then there's lot of independents. There's a lot that goes into, you know, maintaining, advising, you know, the whole consultancy world has spent decades doing this. How do you balance product development efforts there versus, you know, your core platform? You know, should this be an indication that you're going to build out a SaaS portfolio in the future? >> Got it, got it, got it. I know, that's a great question. So, so I think, just to take a step back, Minjar was an interesting company, because Netsil, the other acquisition, is also a bought in the cloud SaaS service that will integrate for hybrid, you know, visibility and networking, but also stand-alone application operations. But Minjar had this interesting history where it was originally a high-end advisory service for AWS. >> Stu: Right. >> It was in the top-five service partners for AWS, and they actually had dozens of customers that they still operate and manage and provide, you know, get a lot of learnings from helping customers, sort of, they are like the Navy SEALS of AWS and so forth, right? And when they built this product, which is now called as Beam, what we think about it is that, look that particular capability is a feature of a platform. It's not a stand-alone product category. What people are going to be looking forward to is a multi-cloud operational fabric, that has an app store and a marketplace, where I can go in and consume services, whether it be on prem or off prem, have a single pane of glass for visibility, again on prem or off prem, and then do one-click automation or orchestration, right? And so the fact that this single pane of glass has to cut over on prem as well as public cloud is the reason why we believe Nutanix has a play here to kind of make it a core feature, because we at least own one pillar of it, which is the on-prem stack, and to the extent that we can do an honest job of extending it to a deep job on AWS and DCP and others, then I think there's value added. >> How do you get closer to the application? When I look at this space, Oracle, IBM, and Microsoft have all been talking some similar messages on this, and that, the cloud strategies that they've gone through have that operational model, and you know, they own these applications, so you know, why Nutanix? >> Yeah, I mean I think it's another interesting question. So look, I think the world of apps, and I would say that power shift is happening obviously. We know that with IBM, but even with Oracle, as a mainstream enterprise app, if you really look at, say a public cloud conference, especially AWS's conference, if anything, the only vendor that they take potshots at is Oracle, because they see it as long-hanging fruit in the enterprise from a complexity side, right? And I think with the advent of cloud, the first time the customers have seen a real alternative to move away from this SQL engine on Oracle to potential Postgres or other alternatives. But to do that, you need abstractions. I need to be able to simplify my current environment of Oracle. At the same time, do it in a way that I can actually harmonize the API so that, oh, at some point, can I actually create another instance, but it's on Postgres, right? And the more I can provide that abstracted APIs, the more, you know, flexibility that's there for the customers to actually move from this legacy apps to the next generation apps. So I think, I guess the simple answer to your question is, look for us, even if you're not in the app business, if anything it's an asset than a liability, because then we can be completely neutral to the transformation from the old to the new. We have no skin in the game of keeping you in the old architecture, so if a customer says, "Look, I need to manage "my old, but I need an accelerated "way to get to the new cloud-native apps," then we are all for it. >> So Sinil, one of the, I think I would call this one of the first principles of Nutanix is this ideal of want-quick provisioning, the ability to simplify really complex, really hard things. You guys did it with HCI. The database management piece is another example. You're talking about it now, with ACS and the cloud. Let's talk about the, what happens when you zig when you should have zagged. In the case of going with Docker, the leading solution at the time, >> Sure, sure. >> Seemed like the right approach to go, now you guys are zagging. What makes Nutanix capable of making such a quick change and providing the consistent layer, like as customers go along with you on this journey, 6they count on APIs, they count on integrations, they count on just to, that basic capability and that it's stable. What gives customers the comfort level, that you know what, the complex stuff, Nutanix will take care of, if there needs to be a course correction from a culture and development platform perspective, they can right the ship? >> Yeah, no I think to your first question there Keith, I think, look, in this era now, it doesn't matter which business you're in, the time to succeed obviously is accelerated, but the time to fail is also accelerated, right? We just have to internalize that in our DNA. I would say of any high-growth company is to just be honest about failing fast. And I, yeah I mean I think Docker was a thing a year and a half ago, and we were early to market, and in fact, I would say it was our ACs and a couple of guys in Europe who actually recognized that, look why are we focusing on all this, when every customer that I talk to is testing out Kubernetes. And sure, we were sitting in Silicon Valley and Kubernetes was just coming up and so forth, and so I think it's two things, one their internalization that look, we have to fail fast in a high-growth business like ours. And then two, having the sensors that give us indications of, are we in the right course or not is also important. And so, the other thing that I would say that has worked well with this company than my prior companies is the fact that it, while it is hierarchical for scale, it is one inch to end from a communications perspective. Things like Slack, things like the communication mechanism, allow us to have that real-time touch with the front guys that focus on the customers and so forth. So, so for example, once the clarity was there around ACS to kind of zag on Kubernetes, the whole system was able to lean in, because the "why" of doing that was clear. The "what" and the "how" follow, right? I mean that's really what, how we will keep it going. >> Alright Sunil, before we let you you go, I want to bring back to the infrastructure side. You've had a few of the solutions that are growing really fast. I know you've highlighted the AFS, the Acropolis File Services. I've got the new object service that just got announced. At core platform, what are the areas that are catching wildfire for your customers? >> That's a great question, so on the core platform, which is still our bread and butter to some extent, our core focus has been about it becoming like the OS for the enterprise, period, right? And there's no workloads left as an island. And right now if I can, you know, three years ago we were talking about workloads that we're good for. Nowadays, I talk about workloads that we're not good for. So if I'm a scale-up database that requires certification, I can tell you about some of those that we are short of getting certified, but once that happens, there should be no workload that we're not good far. And that's where AFS comes in, that's where object services come in is, these are all requirements in the core OS that are needed to solve for those kinds of workloads. And, one thing though, to Keith's earlier point, that we have tried to keep honest, and that's why some of these take longer to come out, is that they still have to hold the bar of instant upgrades. Start small, start quickly, pay as you grow. They all have to follow the same ground rules, right? And that is what is keeping us honest frankly, in the overall desire. >> Okay, want to give you the final word, as Keith said, your customers consider Nutanix a partner. As they leave Nutanix .NEXT 2018, how should they be considering Nutanix? >> Yeah, no I think leaving Nutanix, they should recognize us as a company that obviously needs to be hungry, that needs to have a bold vision. We, you know, in our core values, we will make mistakes, we are vulnerable. But we are, you know, hopefully transparent about it, so that that's the, at the end of the day, the core essence of a partnership is that level of transparency between two people, right? And that's what we are hoping that customers will take away from the conference. >> Alright, well Sunil, it's always been a pleasure to document everything going at, since the inaugural .NEXT back in Miami, and we'll look forward to seeing you at the next show, where we'll make sure to pin you on, you know, how we've gone first. >> Sounds good. >> Sunil Potti and Keith Townsend. I'm Stu Miniman, be back with lots more coverage. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (techno music)

(lively techno music) >> Hello, everyone, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. We are here in Palo Alto to showcase a brand new relationship and technology partnership and technology showcase. We're here with Niel Viljoen, who's the CEO of Netronome. Did I get that right? (Niel mumbles) Almost think that I will let you say it, and Nick McKeown, who's Chief Scientist and Chairman and the co-founder Barefoot Networks. Guys, welcome to the conversation. Obviously, a lot going on in the industry. We're seeing massive change in the industry. Certainly, digital transmissions, the buzzword the analysts all use, but, really, what that means is the entire end-to-end digital space, with networks all the way to the applications are completely transforming. Network transformation is not just moving packets around, it's wireless, it's content, it's everything in between that makes it all work. So let's talk about that, and let's talk about your companies. Niel, talk about your company, what you guys do, Netronome and Nick, same for you, for Barefoot. Start with you guys. >> So as Netronome, our core focus lies around SmartNICs. What we mean by that, these are elements that go into the network servers, which in this sort of cloud and NFV world, gets used for a lot of network services, and that's our area of focus. >> Barefoot is trying to make switches that were previously fixed function, turning them into something that those who own and operate networks can program them for themselves to customize them or add new features or protocols that they need to support. >> And Barefoot, you're walking in the park, you don't want to step in any glass, and get a cut, and I like that, love the name of the company, but brings out the real issue of getting this I/O world if there were NICs, it throws back the old school mindset of just network cards and servers, but if you take that out on the Internet now, that is the I/O channel engine, real time, it's certainly a big part of the edge device, whether that's a human or device, IoT to mobile, and then moving it across the network, and by the way, there's multiple networks, so is this kind of where you guys are showcasing your capabilities? >> So, fundamentally, you need both sides of the line, if I could put it that way, so we, on the server side, and specifically, also giving visibility between virtual machines to virtual machines, also called VNFs to VNFs in a service chaining mechanism, which has what a lot of the NFV customers are deploying today. >> Really, as the entire infrastructure upon which these services are delivered, as that moves into software, and more of it is created by those who own and operate these services for themselves, they either create it, commission it, buy it, download it, and then modify it to best meet their needs. That's true whether it's in the network interface portion, whether it's in the switch, and they've seen it happen in the control plane, and now it's moving down so that they can define all the way down to how packets are processed in the NIC and in the switches, and when they do that, they can then add in their ability to see what's going on in ways that they've never been able to do before, so we really think of ourselves as providing that programmability and that flexibility down, all the way to the way that the packets are processed. >> And what's the impact, Nick, talk about the impact then take us through like an example. You guys are showcasing your capabilities to the world, and so what's the impact and give us an example of what the benefit would be. I mean, what goes on like this instrumentation, certainly, everyone wants to instrument everything. >> Niel: Yes. >> Nick: Yeah. >> But what's the practical benefit. I mean who wins from this and what's the real impact? >> Well, you know, in days gone by, if you're a service provider providing services to your customers, then you would typically do this out of vertically integrated pieces of equipment that you get from equipment vendors. It's closed, it's proprietary, they have their own sort of NetFlow, sFlow, whatever the mechanism that they have for measuring what's going on, and you had to learn to live with the constraints of what they had. As this all gets kind of disaggregated and broken apart, and that the owner of the infrastructure gets to define the behavior in software, they can now chain together the modules and the pieces that they need in order to deliver the service. That's great, but now they've lost that proprietary measurement, so now they need to introduce the measurement that they can get greater visibility. This actually has created a tremendous opportunity and this is what we're demonstrating, is if you can come up with a uniform way of doing this, so that you can see, for example, the path that every packet takes, the delay that it encounters along the way, the rules that it encounters that determines the path that it gets, if it encounters congestion, who else contributed to that congestion, so we know who to go blame, then by giving them that flexibility, they can go and debug systems much more quickly, and change them and modify them. >> It's interesting, it's almost like the aspirin, right? You need, the headache now is, I have good proprietary technology for point measurement and solutions, but yet I need to manage multiple components. >> I think there's an add-on to what Nick said, which is the whole key point here which is the programmability, because there's data, and then there's information. Gathering lots and lots of telemetry data is easy. (John chuckles) The problem is you need to have it at all points, which is Nick's key point, but the programmability allows the DevOps person, in other words, the operational people within the cloud or carrier infrastructure, to actually write code that identifies and isolates the data, the information rather than the data that they need. >> So is this customer-based for you guys, the carriers, the service providers, who's your target audience? >> Yep, I think it's service providers who are applying the NFV technologies, in other words, the cloud-like technologies. I always say the real big story here is the cloud technologies rather than just the cloud. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And how that's-- >> And same for you guys, you guys have this, this joint, same target customer. >> Yeah, I don't think there's any disagreement. >> Okay. (laughs) Well, I want to get drilling to the whole aspirin analogy 'cause it's of the things that you brought up with the programmability because NFV has been that, you know, saving grace, it's been the Holy Grail for how many years now, and you're starting to see the tides shifting now towards where NFV is not a silver bullet, so to speak, but it is actually accelerating some of the change, and I always like to ask people, "Hey, are you an aspirin or you a vitamin?" One guest told me, "I'm a steroid. "We make things grow faster." I'm like, "Okay," but in a way, the aspirin solves a problem, like immediate headaches, so it sounds like a lot of the things that you mentioned. That's an immediate benefit right there on the instrumentation, in an open way, multi-component, multi-vendor kind of, benefits of proprietary but open, but the point about programmability gives a lot of headroom around kind of that vitamin, that steroid piece where it's going to allow for automation, which brings an interesting thing, that's customizable automation, meaning, you can apply software policy to it. Is that kind of like, can you tease that out, is that an area that you guys talking about? >> I think the first thing that we should mention is probably the new language called P4. I think Nick will be too modest to state that but I think Nick has been a key player in, along with his team and many other people, in the definition and the creation of this language, which allows the programmability of all these elements. >> Yeah, just drill down, I mean, toot your own horn here, let's get into it because what is it and what's the benefit and what is the real value, what's the upshot of P4? >> Yeah, the way that hardware that processes packets, whether it's in network interface cards, or in switching, the way that that's been defined in the past, has been by chip designers. At the time that they defined the behavior, they're writing Verilog or VHDL, and as we know, people that design chips, don't operate big networks, so they really know what capabilities to put in-- >> They're good at logic in a vacuum but not necessarily in the real world, right? Is that what you (laughs). >> So what we-- >> Not to insult chip designers, they're great, right? >> So what we've all wanted to do for some time is to come up with a uniform language, a domain-specific language that allows you to define how packets will be processed in interfaces, in switches, in hypervisor switches inside the virtual machine environments, in a uniform way so that someone who's proficient in that language can then describe a behavior that can then operate in different paths of the chained services, so that they can get the same behavior, a uniform behavior, so that they can see the network-wide, the service-wide behavior in a uniform way. The P4 language is merely a way to describe that behavior, and then both Netronome and Barefoot, we each have our own compilers for compiling that down to the specific processing element that operates in the interfaces and in the switches. >> So you're bridging the chip layer with some sort of abstraction layer to give people the ability to do policy programming, so all the heavy lifting stuff in the old network days was configuration management, I mean all the, I mean that was like hard stuff and then, now you got dynamic networks. It even gets harder. Is this kind of where the problem goes away? And this is where automation. >> Exactly, and the key point is the programmability versus configurability. >> John: Yeah. >> In a configurable environment, you're always trying to pre-guess what your customer's going to try to look at. >> (chuckles) Guessing's not good in the networking area. That's not good for five nines. >> In the new world that we're in now, the customer actually wants to define exactly what the information is they want to extract-- >> John: I wanted to get-- >> Which is your whole question around the rules and-- >> So let me see if I can connect the dots here, just kind of connect this for, and so, in the showcase, you guys are going to show this programmability, this kind of efficiency at the layer of bringing instrumentation then using that information, and/or data depending on how it's sliced and diced via the policy and programmability, but this becomes cloud-like, right? So when you start moving, thinking about cloud where service providers are under a lot of pressure to go cloud because Over-The-Top right now is booming, you're seeing a huge content and application market that's super ripe for kind of the, these kinds of services. They need that ability to have the infrastructure be like software, so infrastructure is code, is the DevOps term that we talk about in our DevOps world, but that has been more data-centered kind of language, with developers. Is it going the same trajectory in the service provider world because you have networks, I mean they're bigger, higher scale. What are some of those DevOps dynamics in your world? Can you talk about that and share some color on that? >> I mean, the way in which large service providers are starting to deliver those services is out of something that looks very much like the cloud platform. In fact, it could in fact be exactly the same technology. The same servers, the same switches, same operating systems, a lot of the same techniques. The problem they're trying to solve is slightly different. They're chaining together the means to process a sequence of operations. A little bit like, though the cloud operators are moving towards microservices that get chained together, so there are a lot of similarities here and the problems they face are very similar, but think about the hell that this potentially creates for them. It means that we're giving them so much rope to hang themselves because everything is now got to be put together in a way that's coming from different sources, written and authored by different people with different intent, or from different places across the Internet, and so, being able to see and observe exactly how this is working is even more critical than-- >> So I love that rope to hang yourself analogy because a lot of people will end up breaking stuff as Mark Zuckerberg's famous quote is, "Move fast, break stuff," and then by the way, when they 100 million users and moved, slogan went for, "Move fast, be reliable," so he got on the five nines bandwagon pretty quick, but it's more than just the instrumentation. The key that you're talking about here is that they have to run those networks in really high reliability environments. >> Nick: Correct. >> And so that begs the challenge of, okay, it's not just easy as throwing a docker container at something. I mean that's what people are doing now, like hey, I'm going to just use microservices, that's the answer. They still got stuff under the hood, but underneath microservices. You have orchestration challenges and this kind of looks and feels like the old configuration management problems but moved up the stack, so is that a concern in your market as well? >> So I think that's a very, very good point that you make because the carriers, as you say, tend to be more dependent, almost, on absolute reliability, and very importantly, performance, but in other words, they need to know that this is going to be 100 gigs because that's what they've signed up the SLA with their customer for. (John chuckles) It's not going to be almost 100 gigs 'cause then they're going to end up paying a lot of penalties. >> Yeah, they can't afford breakage. They're OpsDev, not DevOps. Which comes first in their world? >> Yes, so the critical point here is just that this is where the demo that we're doing which shows the ability to capture all this information at line rate, at very high speeds in the switches. (mumbles) >> So let's about this demo you're doing, this showcase that you guys are providing and demonstrating to the marketplace, what's the pitch, I mean what is it, what's the essence of the insight of this demo, what's it proving? >> So I think that the, it's good to think about a scenario in which you would need this, and then this leads into what the demo would be. Very common in an environment like the VNF kind of environment, where something goes wrong, they're trying to figure out very quickly, who's to blame, which part of the infrastructure was the problem? Could it be congestion, could it be a misconfiguration? (John laughs) >> Niel: Who's flow-- >> Everyone pointing finger at the other guy. >> Nick: The typical way-- >> Two days later, what happened, really? >> Typical way that they do this, is they'll bring the people that are responsible for the compute, the networking, and the storage quickly into one room, and say, "Go figure it out." The people that are doing the compute, they'll be modifying and changing and customizing, running experiments, isolating the problem. So are the people that are doing storage. They can program their environment. In the past, the networking people had ping and traceroute. That's the same tools that they had 20 years ago. (John chuckles) What we're doing is changing that by introducing the means where they can program and configure, run different experiments, run different probes, so that they can look and see the things that they need to see, and in the demo in particular, you'll be able to see the packets coming in through a switch, through a NIC, through a couple of VMs, back out through a switch, and then you can look at that packet afterwards, and you can ask questions of the packet itself, something you've never been able to-- >> It's the ultimate debugger. Basically, it's the ultimate debugger. >> Nick: That's right. Go to the packet, say-- >> Niel: Programmable debugger. >> "Which path did you take? "How long did you wait at each NIC, "at each VM, at each switch port as you went through? "What are the rules that you followed "that led you to be here, and if you encountered "some congestion, whose fault was it? "Who did you share that queue with?" so we can go back and apportion the blame-- >> So you get a multiple dimension of path information coming in, not just the standard stovepiped tools-- >> Nick: That's right. >> And then, everyone compares logs and then there's all these holes in it, people don't know what the hell happened. >> And through the programmability, you can isolate the piece of the information-- >> So the experimentation agile is where I think, is that what you're getting at? You can say, you can really get down and dirty into a duplication environment and also run these really fast experiments versus kind of in theory or in-- >> Exactly, which is what, as Nick said, is exactly what people on the server side and on the storage side have been able to do in the past. >> Okay so for people watching that are kind of getting into this and people who aren't, just give me in order maybe through of the impact and the consequences of not taking this approach, vis-a-vis the available, today's available techniques. >> If you wanted to try and figure out who it was that you were sharing a queue with inside an interface or inside a switch, you have no way to do that today, right? No means to do that, and so if you wanted to be able to say it's that aggressive flow over there, that malfunction in service over there, you've got no means to do it. As a consequence, the networking people always get the blame because they can't show that it wasn't them. But if you can say, I can see, in this queue, there were four flows going through or 4,000 flows, and one of them was really badly behaved, and it was that one over there and I can tell you exactly why its packets were ending up here, then you can immediately go in and shut that one down. They have no way that they go and randomly shut-- >> Can I get this for my family, I need this for my household. I mean, I'm going to use this for my kids. I mean I know exactly the bad behavior, I need to prove it. No, but this is what the point is, is this is fast. I mean you're talking speed, too, as another aspect-- >> Niel: It's all about the-- >> What's the speed lag on approach versus taking the old, current approach versus this joint approach you guys are taking? What's the, give me an estimate on just ballpark numbers-- >> Well there's two aspects to the speed. One is the speed at which it's operating, so this is going to be in the demo, it's running at 40 gigabits per seconds, but this can easily run, for example, in the Barefoot switch, it'll run at 6 terabits per second. The interesting thing here is that in this entire environment, this measurement capability does not generate a single extra packet. All of it is self-contained in the packets that are already flowing. >> So there's no latency issues on running this in production. >> If you wanted then change the behavior, you needed to go and modify what was happening in the NIC, modify what was happening in the switch, you can do that in minutes. So that you can say-- >> Now the time it takes for a user now to do this, let's go to that time series. What does that look like? So current method is get everyone in a room, do these things, are we talking, you know. >> I think that today, it's just simply not possible. >> Not possible. >> So it's, yes, new capability. >> I think is the key issue. >> So this is a new capability. >> This is a new capability and exactly as Nick said, it's getting the network to the same level of ability that you always had inside the-- >> So I got to ask you guys, as founders of your companies because this is one of those things that's a great success story, entrepreneurs, you got, it's not just a better mousetrap, it's revolutionary in the sense that no one's ever had the capability before, so when you go to events like Mobile World Congress, you're out in the field, are you shaking people like, "You need me! "I need to cut the line and tell you what's going on." I mean, you must have a sense of urgency that, is it resonating with the folks you're talking to? I mean, what are some of the conversations you're having with folks? They must be pretty excited. Can you share any anecdotal stories? >> Well, yup, I mean we're finding, across the industry, not only in the service providers, the data center companies, Wall Street, the OEM box vendors, everybody is saying, "I need," and have been saying for a long time, "I need the ability to probe into the behavior "of individual packets, and I need whoever is owning "and operating the network to be able to customize "and change that." They've never been able to do that. The name of the technique that we use is called In-band Network Telemetry or INT, and everybody is asking for it now. Actually, whether it's with the two of us, or whether they're asking for it more generally, this is, this is-- >> Game changer. >> You'll see this everywhere. >> John: It's a game changer, right? >> That's right. >> Great, all right, awesome. Well, final question is, is that, what's the business benefits for them because I can imagine you get this nailed down with the proper, the ability to test new apps because obviously, we're in a Wild West environment, tsunami of apps coming, there's always going to be some tripwires in new apps, certainly with microservices and APIs. >> I think the general issues that we're addressing here is absolutely crucial to the successful rollout of NFV infrastructures. In other words, the ability to rapidly change, monitor, and adapt is critical. It goes wider than just this particular demo, but I think-- >> It's all apps on the service provider. >> The ability to handle all the VNFs-- >> Well, in the old days, it was simply network spikes, tons of traffic, I mean, now you have, apps could throw off anomalies anywhere, right? You'd have no idea what the downstream triggers could be. >> And that's the whole notion of the programmable network, which is critical. >> Well guys, any information where people can get some more information on this awesome opportunity? You guys' sites, want to share quick web addresses and places people get whitepapers or information? >> For the general P4 movement, there's P4.org. P, the number four, .org. Nice and easy. They'll find lots of information about the programmability that's possible by programming the, the forwarding being what both of us are doing. In-band Network Telemetry, you'll find descriptions there, P4 programs, and whitepapers describing that, and of course, on the two company websites, Netronome and Barefoot. >> Right. Nick and Niel, thanks for spending some time sharing the insights and congratulations. We'll keep an eye for it, and we'll be talking to you soon. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> This is theCUBE here in Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (lively techno music)

David it's just gonna call in like basically live feel more nos Vegas Nevada execute again it's the 10 covering knowledge 15 brought to you by service now hello everyone welcome to the cube this is our flagship program we go out to the events in the correct the city okla noise I'm John furry the founder silicon they enjoy my coach Dave vellante co-founder Wikibon org and networks I to be in Las Vegas live for three days of wall-to-wall coverage of service now's no 15 knowledge 15 hashtag no 15 go to the crowd chat / no 15 join the conversation our first guest is Frank's lubin president/ceo source now great to see you again thanks for having us thanks much absolutely the keynote was great i mean in the world's changing IT cloud vmware's had an announcement about native apps on the cloud customers are changing business models are changing talk about what you get to do house that you had a big stock drop in the past week and value is that a sentiment of the of the of the Wall Street dynamic products what is it about the business right now with clouds specifically the business model for your customers it's flywheel the SAS models what's what's going on what's your take on all that flying cloud companies and obviously well I ought to got a lot of the high we're one of them you know we're priced to perfection right and that's that's not an easy place to be for for for anybody and you know we're not really focused on that it's this is a marathon every quarter is one mile marker he can't get too excited about you know one versus the other we're really pacing ourselves your building you know an enterprise that's going to be here for for a long time and our focus is not just on modernizing what what people are doing it's focusing on transforming what people are doing and the emphasis that we place on everything as a service structure workflow approaches getting away from message oriented ways of doing things like email is enormous sea change right there is there's over 100 million PDFs out their forms that people have to download and fill out what somebody else then has to scan and reenter right the world is ripe for this type of innovation the technology is here all we need to do is apply it the start okay so I said when I talked yesterday and I said any successful 12 billion dollar valuation company's going to have a day like friday but I've noticed post the financial analyst discussion yesterday things have calmed down a little bit so who knows maybe it's a buying opportunity I wanted to tie it into the TAM expansion that we've seen when you first took this company public everybody looked at it as a very small niche and it took you and Mike scarpelli and others a while to sort of educate Wall Street on the size of the potential and we're now starting to see that come to fruition you guys talk about expanding into the business side and now you're doing it you talk about going into mobile you talk about you know new innovations at the SMB why is it that you're so successful at executing at what you're doing is that the platform is that the people is that the customers I wonder if you could describe that a little bit what's the magic formula are fundamentally a platform company we that was not always well understood even before I joined the company and I talked to Fred Lunney the founder we were very well aware of the opportunity to expand just dramatically beyond the boundaries of the initial application set which was the IGM set of applications it's just how to do that right when you peel away the veneer the rhetoric the nomenclature you know what you see is a workflow an orchestration platform this is so broadly applicable right what these knowledge conferences are all about is to show people what is possible on this platform and you know all we have to do is take the horse to water soda drink and then you know they go on their own right this is a place where people come to get inspired platform and if you seen from some of the examples that we had on stage this morning and people are not tackling crm applications what service now you know why there's really nothing there's really no boundaries in terms of service management for us to tackle workflows and orchestrations like that right so the world is your oyster II and there's really no place that we we can go with this platform all we got to do is empower and energize the audience that you have here and the fact that they show up in such huge numbers as evidence that were we're succeeding at that right good all the events it's the same kind of theme Internet of Things Big Data have paced are changing clouds and innovator what is it about the cloud and your platform and your customers in terms of the business models what is it about the innovation that's going on right without business must change what specifically can you highlight and get some example because you have a lot of customers we were just talking that the cubbies are sending dozens of people here this event it's not just a boondoggle there's some real work getting done so there's a huge transformation see what is it about the business model now that's changing what are you guys doing turn on your platform this conference is called knowledge for a reason people come here to get knowledge right that's right the labs and training and all this kind of stuff but the most important thing to understand about service now what we did with the individuals really lowered the skills profile and the skill demands to be able to access this level of functional and we really did that by an order of magnitude this wasn't just a platform for programmers people that really have procedural programming skills we really took that out of the equation and people have Excel style skills people will understand the rows and columns and data types that's enough to know to be able to go up okay now what happens in that process we empower very large groups of people in our case IT people to basically take control back over this platform you know in Prior generations of this class of software they were always dependent very small we were people that weren't very accessible and very expensive to do thanks for them how they're doing that is what has unleashed explosion creativity let's talk a little bit about your keynote everything as a service was your big theme EAS sort of acronym what is everything is the service number one second question is is there an analogue to vm sprawl is there a potential for server sprawl what do you what are you telling customers about that are they asking you questions but start with what does everything is a service what does that mean everything is what service means taking work work in the sense the repeatable activities things we do over and over again digging it out of the realm of messaging email text phone and putting it into structure workflow we essentially invent that dress as once without best practices really tune and optimize that process and every single time we do that activity we do it exactly the same way and we enforce the business rules the logic upfront stupid enough to thinking like I always is the silly example an organization I lose my security badge or I mangled in the door I need a new on what do I do well you know I Massey Hill I just asked my admin you figure it out okay but everybody else starts roaming the halls like where do i go to go to the front desk maybe you know that thing employees have to have a place to go for their service needs whatever it is HR related facilities related maybe have a parking issue and you should be able to search navigate themselves to a place where they can make a request and then that request is no different than sending a package through fedex or ordering something on amazon information it's now following you you don't have to go and chase it anymore right oh there's a big inversion of how we work i mean we often target service now but we're changing how we work because we're going we're getting away from the structure messaging woman be structure workflow that's what everything is a service is about regard to aquino but so second part of I want to talk about that is my question is there a dark side to that is there a risk of just too many services service sprawl or do you have service for that is there an app for that yeah talk about that logo the obviously during our keynote we actually spoke explicitly to that point because you're concerning your race is legitimate people are saying hey you know DevOps is great you know empowering all these groups to publish their own services that's great but now I'm going to lose control I'm going to lose visibility and we'll lose accountability i'm going to have compliance security problems and so on what we do is you know we actually maintain the transparency the visibility and the control while people are doing things so it doesn't become the Wild West that we've had in Prior generations of software >> Frank talk about what you're seeing in big data honestly you know we didn't cover that space this doesn't seem to be its own little market but certainly medupe to some stuff going on but companies are looking at Big Data certainly in data as it advantaged in some of the things whether it's IT and or an apple agents what's your vision and what is what our customers doing with the day how's the NIT date is great and everyone's the service date is enabler you look at that and how do you find your customs look at it are very transactionally intense but so our systems they're not data rich in the sense that we deal with enormous volumes of data so it's a little bit of a different model and during the keynote what I talked about it's not like they what's hiding your data we can't figure out what's going on the data by structuring the data right what big data tries to do they're trying to figure out what's going on in unstructured data really really hard to do we structure the data so hence it's very very easy for us to analyze the dashboard exactly what's going on but our focus is not so much on big data it's on real time data the real time dimension is something that is going to become huge because people are demanding real-time information is just not interesting to look at data it's 12 24 hours old and because we are sitting on life data the ability to represent it so you can see your business in action right that is insanely exciting for for executives and managers network magic was hot in the old days with the network little but now the way date is got that same kind of paradigm where you have active data passive data and by melding together they can create values that mean we the CIO that we talked to they what you mean by real time today yeah I said look where I want to get you there's one my office just wall-to-wall LED panels and I want to see every every pocket of activity I want to see it executing in real time whether it's good better and different setting threshold seeing exceptions and says I want to be it's like watching the stock market I want to watch my my business that way and that is what we're going to focus on very different from data oceans and data legs and all this kind of stuff we've already structured the data we're not going to have the problem of big data the three of us started our careers without email and it was amazing productivity bump into our lives when we got email but now email is this productivity killer you talked about it in your keynote you guys did a survey is that basically forty percent of a time is spent on admin tasks and employees time I know judge doesn't manage I'll give your calculation i saw was manager with just even you know higher salaries but so how much of that can you actually reduce and what a customer is actually doing around that well it can be reduced by orders of magnitude you can't make it go away I mean people have needs but being able to make those needs fully automated very intuitive very productive it's absolutely possible right I mean 42 days a week almost half time on tasks that have nothing to do or your job is absurd I think this is almost a dirty little secret of business death we have invested in everything except our own internal workplace productivity right we're stuck in the 1980s if not the 1970s and who's going to put on that mantle write it and we're always trying to drive IT to take on that mantle because who else CEOs typically are focused about revenue right image presentation right coo CFO's those are the people that should be driving the internal productivity challenge sorry just that we just haven't made any progress there in decades and the acceleration now is a significant I start guy an email Facebook say I just finally gave my blackberry you mentioned iPhone and your kita he's still using the blackberry I was like that's actually a great scandalous blog post opportunity but are you mentioned iphone in your keynote moment of this is changing the world certainly edge of the network smartphones and we also hear from customers want to be more Apple night so what's your what were you hearing from customers and they say I don't want to be like the 80s and 90s I want to be more like Apple meaning kind of like the iPhone and the innovation that they bring what they brought to that or you guys been using uber as an example or open table as an example that's that modern vibe for the customer what are they trying to get to in an environment what's their outcome what are you hearing customers the first aspect is the series experience itself in other words what does would like to do what you want to get done essentially we're transactional platform we're not a hanging around platform like a social system we twitter has no no point no purpose it's just nice to shoot things out into the ether and help somebody sees it our systems are not like that it's about performing a unit of work something very specific about the beginning it doesn't end and there's things that happen in between the result it's very different that way uber is also a transactional app I want to hail a cab I need a ride opentable is transactional act I want a reservation there's a very specific end point to that unit of work and this is where technology can be incredibly helpful to get you there faster i use the Gulf example you know fewer strokes is better right and as people want they want have grubert a lot and I find that user experience my blowing compared to trying to call or or hail account it's cheaper and it scales incredibly well right but if wherever you are or whenever you are it seems to be there's cars around this quite impressive App Store like model the enterprise has been kicked around for a while is that service cataloging uber shows the real-time aspect of services needs you know demand in real time but in the back-end service catalog that more apples to the apple store at the back end its lights out light speed right in other words it's just like Amazon right everything is the speed of light until I got to pick something off the shelf the real world kicks in and i have to ship something the same thing same thing with fedex I mean the information processing aspect of FedEx is what makes fedex special in fact that they have planes and trucks you know it is not what your user experience focuses on yeah you got minimal exposure to that you are you're on your way to a billion dollars here shortly you've laid out a plan for four billion by the league 2020 correct with the the financial analyst a lot of people say well one of these guys going to make money you have indicated before you you're right now after scale after growth and what if you could address that um we actually were profitable are you sure I mean we were you could make a lot more money if you want to do but you're going for growth I should have clarified that question better you guys can be wildly profitable if you skip down and just reach over office we've always said and by the way you know one of the things that that our business model really focuses on is making sure that the cash equation really work so on a cash flow basis we're doing extraordinarily well because it's a subscription model you know the profitability equation is a little squishy it's more accounting them than economic which is why the focus on cash our investors focus on growth in the next thing to focus is on this cash right and after they get generally accounting representation of our at some point the law of large numbers kicks in and that's really maybe out in the business out a target model yesterday I was we put updated for the financial analyst shows you exactly where the leverage is coming from transparent supplies for peace I want to let's do a great job of that very drill into on the he said amazon amazon does a great job executing and near a great executors and certainly proven that we do successful with the company but they're constantly innovating the new product announcements debía new announcements is that the new competitive advantage scale and stickiness through rapidly iteration of new features is that this is just a one-off outlier with amazon you see no price it be more like that's one of them  you see that with Tesla they've changed the car industry there's constant updates to the cars right a changes of driving experience and that that model of rapid iteration is really the new normal you know back to the real time thing it gets really boring when you get an update every 18 months you think we don't tolerate those kind of time friends anymore and lag is not a good ending our but I you know software gotta ask you a final question I know you getting we're getting a puppy you get very busy schedule thanks to spend the time with us as well I'll see you had a your competitive sailor and following your career right outside sirs now you got a boat for the nuchal hand you mentioned data ocean data legs big big fan of data ocean I want you to share perspective from what you've learned sailing and being successful winning and sailing with how to navigate an idea this as a c-level executive or a CEO CIO or some of the trenches what lessons can sail in your experience is sailing and running service now what would you share with the folks out there as they try to look at their transitional transformation I teach transformation the others there's a lot of analogs if you will between sailing and business because it's this multi-dimensional game that we play you know in sailing it's about technology it's about how great your crew is it's I'll get your boat is it's the weather is what the competition is doing all those things you have in business so people always want to write it yourselves he's like another you know another another brutal contest township and that's that's all true it's very multi-dimensional and finding your high leverage entry point because you know it's very easy to do super business super busy and business and really not move the dial right so understanding where leverage exists what opportunities are that's really the art form I Frank great to have I know you're busy to getting them getting of the big nokia pricing the president/ceo of service now here live in Las Vegas is to Cuba railroad next guest live in three days wall-to-wall coverage here at no.15 join the conversation crowd chef net / no 15 right now

lying from the austin convention center in austin texas it's the q @ l world 2014 here are your hosts dave vellante and Stu miniman hi we're back to wrap up 2l world's two minima and I have been here all day will be here tomorrow as well we're starting at eight thirty local time 930 east coast time tomorrow getting started early michael dell will be on tomorrow we'll have the keynotes again only bar broadcasting for a half day but so today's do i want to get your take on this a lot of talk of course initiated by me and others about dallas a private company I think it's a two-edged sword frankly because I think that when things are really good and you got a lot of momentum behind you you've got transparent confirmation or quasi transparent confirmation and that creates a lot of buzz and Busby gets buzzed and acted some good thing some flywheel effects can occur from being public at the same time when things aren't so great and the headlines are bad and the earnings aren't great you can go into this vortex this abyss which dealt was kind of there and I think as you were talking about with Matt Eastwood the timing of del going private couldn't have been better from a valuation standpoint for Michael Dell and Silver Lake I mean I I think they got a fantastic deal even though there's a lot of risk in it that they're taking but the fact that Michael Dell's willing to step up and do that now on 75 percent of the company yes they have debt service what is it 18 billion dollars in debt so i think i think was the number but they'll pay that off over time because of the cash flow machine and they're going to be in a really good position when that happens yeah David's real interesting you know there's been a lot of change Adele there's been there's a lot of new faces here and some of the ones that we knew for many years are gone and you really are having that transformation inside I heard one person kind of overheard in the hallway type thing is you know there were certain antibodies in Dell and you know they're kind of sweeping through making changes and if there's some that aren't on board with where it's going you know well maybe they'll need to take I guess it was the voluntary exit type solution around and but they're hiring aggressively in other spaces because yeah I T is changing and for me the real striking thing dave is they'll talk a lot about choice and we say you know there's so many different markets out there there's you know VMware in their ecosystem that's what Microsoft's doing there's a public cloud and there's all of these little you know sub climates inside IT and devils playing a lot of bets which we talked about is how many bets can you place and actually make enough margin and win at what you're doing so since dell doesn't have to answer to Wall Street they can do what they think is best for the company and really for the customers it kept coming back to you know Michael and all the executive saying we're focused on what the customers are asking us to do we can move really fast we've definitely seen examples of Dell moving faster to deliver some of these solutions that then then they had when they were a public company things like a cloud marketplace things like the new tanukhs OEM you know a lot of interesting technologies here and there's still lots of hardware Dave you know i'm looking through the twitter stream and everybody snapping pictures of the new FX to kind of the next generation vertex it went from vertex really be in that remote office box to the FX to really being a data center you know nice hardware platform that you can build for a more scalable environment so you know interesting stuff happening always a good vibe here in Austin I think that one of the things that's interesting to me in a way when I think I think of I'm reminded of Luger stirs you know can who says elephants can't dance in a way Michael Dell is orchestrating a a different version with clear differences of that playbook and here's what I mean by that he took a company that was 100% essentially PCs and began a multi-billion dollar buying spree and transform this company into what is now the only end-to-end enterprise company now HP used to talk about that as a big deal they've given up on that now that they're going to split up what is the value to a customer in the end one this is supply chain why does the customer care about supply chain because gives you a dell pricing power so Dells got potentially one of the biggest supply chains now in the industry HP had a supply chain that was enormous but now when they split it up I don't know how they're going to continue to leverage that maybe they will maybe they won't that sounds like they won't be able to have that same leverage IBM when it sold its pc division to lenovo lost a lot of leverage gel is now able to sit claim number one in storage terabyte shipped why because it ships so many pcs it's not because of the server business it's because every PC goes out with a half a terabyte disk drive in it so add it up until kicks but all of a sudden boom number one that's interesting but from a customer standpoint you can buy virtually anything from the company now I talked about second elephants dancing you're seeing that transformation being led by a number of factors certainly servers is a big part of that and networking and storage with the big acquisitions that they've made and networking with the acquisitions that they made but also Perot gels got a big services organization that's very sticky and then the other thing which not a lot of people talk about is Dell software in fact I got a tweet earlier from somebody saying del I presume Dave I presume when you talk about Dell having one of everything you're not including software well as we know tells got a almost a two billion dollar software business now that's not ridiculously enormous but it's substantial how many how many multi-billion dollar software companies are out there so what I see is this big portfolio it's not i wouldn't say it's services lead it's not it's it's dell lead but there's a sticky services component with an increasing software component in growth areas like security like systems management like so quick tell calls information management which is a lot of the analytics and big data so jeal can continue if Dell can continue to make those acquisitions do the integrations it's got a pretty good story for customers don't you think yeah absolutely Dave and there's still it's that PC business in that server business that's generating the cash and allowing them to get into a lot of environments and trying out a lot of pieces you know the cloud broker models really interesting because we talked about it a couple of years ago and clouds are not homogeneous and it's not you know until recently moving from one environment to another was going to be difficult enter things like docker and management tools like the Australia saquisili del made are enabling some of these multi cloud environments and so we're seeing customers you know from what we see aren't going all in with one environment you know we've got a survey going on right now and some of the data we've seen so far is that you know it's not like they're saying oh I've got amazon and i'm only doing amazon most customers they're doing amazon they've got VMware inside they might be doing something with a jour because everybody's got office 365 and of course they've got lots of SAS applications so you know where does dell fit into this environment and can they be you know a broker of supplier and arms dealer for a lot of these pieces and you know how do they tie them all together how do they grow those services how do they have their software you said you know there's pieces of software they don't have they don't have you know 200 SAS applications like IBM does they don't have the breath of the amazon marketplace today but you know Dell is in a lot of customer environments especially in that you know kind of sub 5000 user you know marketplace so you know there's a lot of opportunity for Delta add on to that and I said before they can craft a story because they're not a public company that is very positive you know every CEO that is of si of a public company when he or she comes on the earnings call even if they have a Miss even if they have a quarter that they're disappointed in they spin a story and and the street that starts opening up the books and parsing the numbers and doing the analysis and the street either buys it or they don't and so what Dell can do is they can craft any story that they want and make it sound great and and create their own momentum now it sounds like they're growing but you know even today in the keynotes you got a little mix of units and dollars and terabytes and geographies and in different segments and so forth but Michael Dell was able to very effectively put together a story of growth that's been mirrored by his executive management team I'm gonna have no doubt that there's this growth segments but you think about it if IBM we're a private company they could talk about cloud they could talk about their software to find stuff they can talk about you know the security businesses those businesses that are growing and not talk about the business that are shrinking and not talk about the top line that's flatted down or whatever it is so so dell has that advantage in that they can craft a story and and and use that in their marketing to be relevant and I think that's really what customers want to know they want to know that the company I'm doing business with is relevant so they got pcs is the tip of the spear everybody knows dell pc is easy to do business with no problem they've got the services piece that's sticky and they've got everything else in between which is this end end strategy for mid-sized and smaller enterprises which really everybody else kind of pooh-poohed enough poo-poos they all they give it lip service this is this is where del really shines and so I don't know still it's gonna be interesting to see yeah David's interesting i was just ruminating on the fact that you know when you think about the early PC days del just made it so easy to buy first with a catalog and then with a website i could go in and click and choose the environments that i wanted if we look at converged infrastructure and cloud which is where the growth really is you know candle take those same type of experiences and move those to the environments and make you know those choices you know the cloud marketplace reminds me a lot of the dell S&P which was really the offering that I could buy almost anything from dell and dell would take a you know i cut even if it's a small one they didn't necessarily have to support it hugely successful drove a ton of revenue for dell so you know lots of things that they can you know to take advantage of Wow and like I say when wouldn't tell was was public they were a roughly sixty billion dollar company with with trading at fifty to sixty cents on the dollar Michael Delta and silverlake having taken that private the ultimate measure yes customer value etc etc but the real leader board is going to be what if and when tell this hides to have another exit whether that's public offering whatever what the thing to watch is will del have been able to shift its business mix toward the enterprise so that it can even trade let's say it one to one if so it can it could it could create 30 billion dollars of value you know then that Michael the open 75% of saw to me it was just a brilliant move this company is still a cash flow machine you know these big companies that aren't growing that Wall Street seems to hate for some reason even Corey MC these are cash flow machines Oracle cash flow machine IBM HP cash flow machines that if they have good leadership they can transform their businesses into a success story alright well getting kicked out of here still look tomorrow we start at 830am the cube would be live SiliconANGLE TV check out Wikibon org check out SiliconANGLE calm for all the news we'll see you tomorrow this is the cubes two minima and Dave vellante we're out see you tomorrow

>> A cube at DMC World twenty fourteen is brought to you by D. M. C. Redefine, see innovating the world's first converged infrastructure solution for private cloud computing brocade. Say goodbye to the status quo and hello to Brocade. >> Welcome back to the Cube. This silken angle TVs live wall to wall Coverage of DMC World twenty fourteen here in the Sands Convention Center in Las Vegas. We've got three days to stage is over eighty guests. Lots of practitioners, execs, business leaders got a special segment. I'm bringing you today, bringing onto two thirds of the geek whispers, podcasts, Those in the story for the virtual ization and Claude Communities. No art is to guess. Well, let me introduce it's John Troyer, who's making his debut as the founder of tech reckoning. >> Thanks for having me. >> And we've got Amy Lewis influence marketing from Cisco. Name is your first time on the Cube, so, you know, welcome to the program. >> Thank you for having me on. >> All right, so So, guys, you know, we've been to a lot of conferences way we've hung out with, You know, the various influencers bloggers. It's changed a lot. This is my twelfth year coming M. C World. If you had told me twelve years ago some of things I'd be doing at this show, I wouldn't have believed you. I mean, I was one of the guys in a polo that only got out of out of the office once a year to give a presentation and, you know, talks in people about some cool tak um, and you know, social media is one of those things that, you know turn my career. Eleven. So you know what? Let's have a conversation about what's going on in the industry with kind of community influences and everything. John, maybe you could start us often. You know, Maybe if it leads in tow your new gigs? >> Sure, sure, on one on one, and things have changed. On the other hand, the same dynamics are playing out. Buying the buying cycle has changed. The buying process has changed. Customers are looking much more to their peers and not to traditional media analysts. Marketing folks, they can't find more ads. You can't send out more E mail. So what do you do? You need to get part of the conversation. We've been saying that for five or ten years, that's actually happened. Now the folks that were early on into the blogging space have turned themselves into communicators as well as technologists. We've seen, you know, their careers have have gone and all sorts of interesting places, for instance, you. But I think now that even we could talk about his art Is blogging dead? But I think now we're seeing it. We're seeing social media not as a trade or a practice practice, but simply a tool set that we all use. So that's all I'm saying is it's a It's more of a it spread throughout our organization. Not so much in one tiny niche, right? >> Yeah, Jonah, I love that point. I I I've been preaching for a bunch of years that this is an important skill, something you have to have their wonderful tools. But you've been doing community for a lot longer than Social Media has been around, and, you know, so it's peace, Amy, your influence marketing. What would please way out on this? >> Yeah, I chose the title, actually myself on purpose. To say it's not just social media, think social Media is very important, but like John was saying that to me is a set of tools. They're important platforms or important communications channels, but influencers the people who between the term citizen analysts they are unpaid analyst. But people are very passionate about technology, and they want to write on block and share, really engage their community. That's an important group of people. It's a really a buying center, and we have to find new ways to address them. So community is more important than >> ever. Citizen analysts thought, Let's focus that >> some of the >> people you know, I say some people goto event and they get it, get it, get wined and dined and they get to, you know, write about a bunch of stuff I'm like, you know you're better than journalists, you know, you'll You know you do some really good stuff and sometimes it's a little bit too friendly to the people that are doing it. So you know where do you see the role of kind of the press? You know, the analyst and the influencer? >> It's a great question I've been checking. We need to abstract the or chart. It is. It is a complicated question, but I think the traditional presses really trained and rightfully so in giving us that neutrality. So that is still a very important role. I think the analysts are paid Tio Tio, analyze particular sets, etcetera. They have nation specialty. I think the citizen analyst is interesting because they are what you don't know about the neutrality. But you do know that there are people who roll up their sleeves and really touched the technology. So that becomes a very interesting set because they really care about the technology Kazakh but could become their problem if they don't, you know, raise our voice and sort of engaged with technology and let the community know what, what the new trends are, what they need, what business needs. Our etcetera gives us a really applied version, the PR in the e R outside. >> Don't you want to comment on matter? >> I mean, these are the folks that they lose their jobs if they picked the wrong technology. So they have much more. Their discussions have it. They have more skin in the game. >> Aye, that's right. If you've got the practitioner, you know whether it be the end user sometime times it's the you know channel guy that they do that that's good, You know? What about the people inside the corporations that are also using these? >> I'm super bullish about the use of employees as advocates and evangelists in our community, both for technical education. And for the commercial part of our conversation in the enterprise space, we don't sell solutions with Russia. Your hair's a pressure and very nice calm. Give me a call. We sell it with relationships with people. I've been working on the social media since it existed, I suppose. And what we've seen over and over again is the social channels are really great for getting the word out. But without that personal component, it's like just handing out brochures. So you need your employees out there. You need your employees talking to folks. You need your employees without their representing your brand, just like they would have an event. I've seen that at something. On one hand, it's something that's so trivial that we all agree it's true. On the other hand, I don't. I think a lot of people are just realizing that now. >> So, John, you know, there's some some big companies, you know, creative certification programs to do some of this. There's some companies that just, you know, sign everybody up and, you know, it could be kind of an echo chamber or things like that. You know what? What do you see in these days? To kind of help out. You know the community >> well. There's a lot of software and a lot of programmatic things you could do. Those may be useful in terms of organizing you. It comes down to the people in the culture of the company and help much. You trust your people to go out. I think the best thing we can do is sit up platform for folks to be able to, to communicate. I think that's actually what Amy does really well at Cisco. >> X. It's, um I always talk about influence marketing as being people, platforms in content. And so I agree. I think that we sorted out some of the platform issues as we've learned about social media and grew up with it. I think that we are still working out the people in the content side and what's appropriate, how we can join together and do that and how we can creates a mute platforms may be using the tools of social tio to drive the conversation forward. >> All right. So, I mean, I got one for you. You know, how do we balance the kind of creation of information and kind of the community and fund? I mean, you do a lot of fun event you've got, you know, awful club this week. You've got, you know, bacon, stack and B bacon and bacon. I e I mean, I can't keep track of you, deport vacants and everything. And, you know, there'd be some executives here that would be like that, That social stuff. And they're playing games and things like that. So how do we balance kind of attic business value and greeting, you know, value to the community. And, you know, having fun in building community. >> No, it's a great question. A couple of years ago, I got a text in the middle of the night that said, Please explain to me how the bacon is a marketing play. Please explain this and you know, I need a power point slide. So if you've never had to explain, be bacon on the power points, I for that challenge out to everyone. But I think in the last couple of years people started to see it more and more as we're, uh, we're similar to the sales role, and that's how we've sort of changed the language. So I perform a sales like function, except I don't carry a quota. So it is about building the relationship like John was saying, and it is about balancing fun with your intent. So I think that if you create a fun environment, if you create an openness and willingness to listen, then the good things will follow. So you form the relationships of people. You open up their ability to create content with you because they don't feel under attack. They're ready to share. And again, it's it's kind of a magical formula. Be nice and create opportunity. >> Yeah, so >> I think we'll part of it's a generational ship. I think part of it a generational shift and part of it is a temperamental she So tradition again, going back to sales traditional enterprise sales. You might go and play golf with somebody, cause that's what you enjoy doing for our kind of geeks. Our golf is eating bacon and talking about the duplication strategies, right? That's where we're having the most fun. So it's It's just it's same sort of thing. Just a shift in generations. >> Yeah, I wonder if you know what, what role this community help in kind of careers. You know, I think you know, we're talking so much of these shows about, you know, if your storage admin. If you're networking admin and you know you're down there, you know, configuring Luns or setting up the land, you know, we're going to have a job in a couple of years because automation is gonna change. You know, how much does the community help in kind of those career paths and education? >> So, John, I think we should interview stew on this one. Should we have the geek whispers takeover. I think this is your great example. You've talked about you, you were on a career path and we hear this a lot, and when you raise your hand to volunteer, we sort of jokingly call the spokes uniforms. You both really enjoy the technology and like to communicate about it. When you raise your hand and make yourself known to the community, to your employers, to the world at large, it gives you different opportunities. And I think I don't think you go into technology really without wanting to have an evolving, exciting career. So I think that he's becoming proficient in these tools. Joining your community is an opportunity to learn from your peers to get back to your peers and to raise her profile and open yourself up to the possibility of a new opportunity or a new idea or different engagement. A new way to learn >> In today's business environment, communication is a key part of whatever you do, even if you're the guy sitting there configuring the lungs, because if you're not communicating with your teams and the application teams and the storage of network virtualization team, you're not going to succeed so I think that's an important part of it, right? Being a communicator, absolutely critical and art. Barney. >> All right, so either one of you feel free to answer, but I think back to my early days, you know, two thousand eight, I was so excited when I got invited to a couple of conferences. A blogger, you could kind of get a pass, and I would, You know, ten might take my own vacation time and usually spend that on expenses because my employer at the time didn't get it. It was this innovation conference in, like, in a New York City with four hundred people, and it was like, kind of amazing. I've seen people go to B m world on their own dime where they can get a pass. I mean, you know, it's great to see when you when you got the passion. So I guess the question I wanted to ask is, you know, with companies today, who should they be inviting? How do they do it? You know? You know. Is it you know, the blogger Or is it the, you know, empty Alexis co expert? You know, bm where be expert, you know, What? How's that? How's that changing? Or is it >> changing? Well, I think what you've seen happen over the years is something that was a little more unstructured, which was a kind of blogger relations program. Working with both customers partners, employees in your ecosystem has turned into something a little more formal. We created the V Expert program in two thousand nine to formalize what we were already doing. It's an analogy to the endless relations, press relations, investor relations, sorts of programs. So I mean, it's it's it's a little more buttoned up. It's a little more of a membership thing, but we I know both of DMC and BM where and it Cisco, Francisco champions to try to embrace all the folks that are out there blogging. I think you know, if you're a market or you need to make sure that you're keep your eyes open and you don't just talk to the people that you've gathered in your living room, Bye. You know, a lot of it's pretty easy if you're enthusiastic about technology, if you're engaged with the technology, if you put some effort into it, it's actually pretty easy to get involved with one of these programs there, there, there and there, there, fourth of people in them right there. They're not there to say the glory of the emcee and glory of Cisco and glory of'em, where they're there to help you with your career. They're there to give you tools to give you networking and, you know, hopefully get you to places like this. So I encourage everybody that that's interested in starting, you know, go ahead and get started. It's easier than you think to get involved. >> I agree with that, and I think that way want to be almost like an airline program that you'd actually want to participate. And it's sort of my job like this is a customer service activity, and I often talk about if you talk about the large pool of influencers. Maybe they haven't identified yet. Or maybe they prefer to stay independent. Or maybe they do have interest in a lot of different technologies. Me for them to engage in one of these programs, that stolen, important set of people that you have to deal with the mark, you know, and again set up these blogger days have longer briefings. But like John was saying, When you have the group of people that you name and give it a program name, this is a little bit of inside baseball if we don't talk about giving program a name and funding can follow. So if you're working in a corporate marketing environment, it's really important to explain to people that marketing structure behind what you're doing and when you treat them as a class, it gives you some advantage is you can scale out a little easier. You can provide more assets to those individuals, and it frees you up to Dio. What I love to do, which is is to really engage with those individuals and create content with them. So, >> yeah, so how is engagement these days? You know, I think back, you know, that you know, ten years ago, you talk. You know, one percent of the community would, you know, be doing almost all the contribution. Ten percent might be a little active and everybody else's lurker. You know, when we founded Wicked Bond Day, Volonte actually has on his business card that he's a one percenter which goes back to you know it. It's, you know, the one percent that causes all the trouble, the one percent that causes all all of the commotion. So, you know, with this wave, I mean, we were founded off of, you know, economics in crowd sourcing and everything else, and the Cube is all about, you know, sharing information. We put it all out there. We want everybody to contribute and, you know, give that feedback. You know, How are we along now? You know that that journey to get more people involved. >> I think the opportunity is there more than ever. I think you're right. I mean, there's always gonna be a percentage of people who want to raise her hand, the class that want to give up their PTO to go to a conference that that had this other life they just can't help themselves. And so in some ways it's finding the most impassioned and giving them opportunities. But I think that with the platforms and the scale, there is a greater opportunity for people. They don't want to start their own block. For instance, one of the things we do it Cisco champions is allowed people to guess, block or allow them to come post a podcast. So I think there are more more ways to and there, you know, that's one example. There's lots of other groups that provide people again a little bit a dose of it so they might not want to run a full media company on their own. They don't wanna build Q, but they want to participate. And I think that we have so many more opportunities for them to do that that we're seeing group. >> We're seeing platform ships over the years. I think we as technologists human beings have a tendency to forget their past relatively quickly, as people have moved from the MySpace world to the Facebook Twitter world. I think actually, we're headed for I don't call it I don't want to call it post Facebook, but it certainly is. A multi platform world made >> it just like >> it's a multi device world. We're not opposed PC world in that. I think you're seeing the rise of more specialized communities. They come back again from from our from our origins back ten or twenty years ago. I think we're seeing that people want more deeper engagement along the company. A lot of the report building and kind of conversation. And hey, how are you? Goes on on Twitter. But I think people are really looking for a place where they can have a better conversation, more interaction, more lasting death that might not be on their own. Blogger in their own kind of indie web sort of style, roll your own block. But there are more and more platforms that people are making available for this kind of connection again. What was once niche eventually permeates the whole >> yes. So, you know, the concern I have is it's tough because it is so dispersed right now, you know? You know, I love Twitter, you know? Hi, I'm stew, you know, on Twitter. And I know you guys are big on it, too. And I don't love the multi platform discussion. You know, I always love when you dropped that kind information on the community. But, you know, how >> do we How do we get that >> depth? It's one of the things I always worry about is, you know, people will read the headline and, you know, just react at it and, you know, they might even share it a bunch, but they haven't read it. Uh, so how do we get that deeper engagement? Deeper understanding. I mean, you know, I always say, you know, the I'm too busy is a poor excuse because, you know, you know Michelangelo and I'd sign that many hours in the day way we did and, you know, sure they didn't have their phone buzzing all over >> the place. >> I actually think we should do less. Not more. I think I think too much information, too many channels, too many corporate channels, too many personal channels, too much bad content. The world does not need more crappy content. So whether you're a individual, blogger or marketer, I'd say just turn the dial back a little bit. Did work on better, longer pieces that add more? I think that's the only way that we can shift the conversation. >> Yeah, long for love it. Oh, no, absolutely. I still read so >> well. It's a curatorial function as well, that we have to be responsible. And that's yet one more way people can participate. We see people rise and in the community because they're really great curator Sze, because they syndicate the content in ways are interesting to others because time is of a value so that becomes a real asset. And the skill is Well, >> yeah, great. Great point. Could you know, so many times I'm like I really like to do a thousand word post on this, but, you know, sometimes all I'll come out of this show and take, you know, I did a year ago. I did it. I didn't article on the federation. You know, the ZPM were pivotal and coming out of the show, I've got a lot of new data, and I could really quickly take some photos. I've done. Takes some of the notes. I take some of the tweets and, you know, put together an order. Won't take me as long. I mean, I'll probably do it on the plane ride home. So what I wanna ask next is, you know, you guys see a lot of things out there. What coolest thing you're seeing either at a at a conference or event or you know what? What? What's catching, right? What? What's interesting? Done. >> There's a whole new side out there called Tech, right? I don't know what's cool out there again. I'm seeing multi channel multi, a lot of experiments. There's some cool stuff going on with the indie web. There's I mean, everything is mobile. I don't know. There's just a lot of places. It >> sounds like you Let's give the plug. Integrity has finally cool things and, you know, solid. But something >> like that tech reckoning is a site that's gonna bring. It's an independent site. It's not associate with any vendor. It's going to bring some of the community and enterprise community together to talk about some of these things about Where is it going as a whole? Where's technology going, where our career is going to try to help us get to whatever this you know, it is a service. Third platform, Whatever you wanna call it, where the heck were going? It looks pretty interesting, and it looks like it isn't gonna be quite the same thing. So we're trying to bring together a set of people and just tackle some of those problem and also work together and collaborate. It's so much easier with open source with cloud. With all the tools we have available, it's so cheap and easy to build new pieces of technology, not just a type of each other words online, but to actually build stuff that I'm very excited about. The power taking going far. This from open source, right? Taking the power of people to come together and build cool new stuff. That's what I would like to. >> Still, I'm just angry that you scooped Matt and I on getting to interview John first about >> tech recognition. So, Amy, you you do some cool things that some of events we talk about, the waffle bacon, you What have you seen out there that that's kind of interesting? Or, you know, how do you find some of the cool new ideas? >> Yeah, I think you always I'm working with a really talented events team right now. And I think one of the things I've seen them sort of transform is that social is not other, you know? And we're seeing the social and this concept of community permeate and really think about our audience to really engage that core base, those those tech enthusiasts, and to see what you can do to in engage them. So I'm saying it in real life and in these community platforms. So I think that's been one of the other great trends is watching people band together and various kinds of consortiums. I won't name names, but there's a few folks outlook community. We're seeing a lot of this happen where they're sort of grouping together, and they're saying if they pull their resource is what happens, they might be able to gather enough money to go to a conference or to fund a buddy or to get a hotel room that they've got extra spaces somebody can crash. So I'm saying it's very cool, sort of stitching together opportunity and working together to learn more. So again, the combination of the platforms, using the technology and then in real life connection. >> All right, so I've been asking all the questions here. So before we wrap up, you know, Amy, anything you want, Johnny, when as me, John same, we throw it open. When Whenever >> you first signed up for your Twitter account, did you think it would lead you here because you have the best Twitter >> account? No, actually, a friend of mine for me and Steve Todd, who was blogging before I was, and he said, You know, when there's trepidation when you're gonna get published and you never know where it leads. And we were talking about this after he and I were on the stage at Radio City Music Hall right after Bill Clinton had been on because they brought the bloggers down when we were there. And it's like, Come on, you know, I'm, you know, I'm an engineer by training, you know, I've done. You know, I've done some sales. I've done engineering. I've done you no operations. Technologist is hard. So you know, some of the places the people I've met. I mean, if you just reach out to people, it still, even though there's so many people on Twitter, you know, the people that right and our authors and bloggers, If you comment or you reach out to them, a lot of them reach back. I mean, you know, I still amazed at some of the people I've met get to rub elbows with. No, just just have had a blast with him. So >> get another one. So do you think unicorns can be trained? Do you think people have to be born with the skill set, Or do you think you can be a uniformed rancher? >> No, I think I think I think they could be trained. You know, it's absolutely it's Ah, it's a tough skill set. I mean, you know, doing video is not easy. First couple of times you do it. It's different there's there's all these muscles. You know, Writing is one of those things that you know. I thought I was an okay writer, but hadn't done a lot of it. They're things you do. So try it out. And that thing I tell you, you got to stick with it for a while. I thought Twitter was pretty stupid. First Go on it. But, you know, I stuck on it for another six months and have some fun with it. No, here we are six years later and you know it is a lot and, you know, blocking of writing and blogging and everything else you know all over. I >> like the muscle memory idea. >> It's hard. You were on camera, have remember not to scratch my face. Strange. He'll set, I ask. I actually, I'm seeing a lot of interest in short form video. I know the kids are all doing it. I mean, obviously, we're doing it here. You do it. It's part of your practice. But in talking with people about our new activities, it's just so easy to take a chair. I think that's actually, even though it's been coming up for years, I think where I think that's an interesting thing >> on all right now, I'll give one of those inside tips videos. Great. Some people don't like to watch video. Yeah, broadcaster great. Some people don't like to listen to him, you know, writing's great. Some people won't read. So you know what? One of the early lessons I had is when I was, you know, being a, you know, active member on standard evangelizing of solution. I did it everywhere it you know that give presentations that shows you put it up on slide chair. You do you two videos, you blogged about it. You talk to everybody, you bet that you can everywhere. And you know, it just permeates out there. It could be a bunch of works and then there's tools that are out there. >> They're all connected events, right? I've discovered recently, and I can't believe I just realized this. But it was with the conversation with Amy on our Christmas broadcast that even though I've been part of an online group for years, I'm part of digital marketing for BM. Where for years, Uh, actually, most of my work. Half of my work is off line having my workers meeting people in person, getting to meet them and connecting that online and offline. And the synergy there is just is immense. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, other than the keynotes, my phone stays in my pocket for the most time. Unless I'm going between events. It's the in real life and nearly getting to know things. I was joking, You know, Twitter went away. Tomorrow might be a little sad, but I can connect the most. All those people, we got him on LinkedIn, Facebook and, you know, email. I still use something. Don't taking their holds. Absolutely. So you know, to wrap. I guess if you want to, just You know what people find more on your podcast. Find your website. You know Amy, Like it start? Well, >> where >> are Equus? Versace, of course. Geek hyphen whispers dot com on way, published every week. So give us a listen. See what you think. And I'm >> Matthew Brender. Sorry you couldn't join this time, but it's a lot as it were. A DMC world and you two are here in Matthew's. >> It's hard. We're going toe to toe. It's true. We're going to record with him like it's a Max headroom figure on a yes tomorrow, so and also I'm on Twitter as calms mention and I block under that same constantly dot com girls have engineers. That's true. I have engineers, unplug dot com as well. And now sixty second Tech, the short first on the popcorn version >> and I. J. Troia on Twitter and tech reckoning dot com. I went inside. >> Hey, Amy, John. Thanks so much. We We love taking the podcast. Inception. Sile inside the Cube. Look forward to seeing you lost events connecting with the community and everybody. Definitely check out their stuff. I'm at stew on Twitter with yvonne dot org's is where most of my articles go, and, of course, silicon angled on TV is where you can find all the video. Thanks for joining us. We will be back with the rest of DMC world covered.