>> Narrator: TheCUBE's live coverage is made possible by funding from Dell Technologies, creating technologies that drive human progress. (upbeat music intro) (logo background tingles) >> Hi everybody, welcome back to day three of MWC23, my name is Dave Vellante and we're here live at the Theater of Barcelona, Lisa Martin, David Nicholson, John Furrier's in our studio in Palo Alto. Lot of buzz at the show, the Mobile World Daily Today, front page, Netflix chief hits back in fair share row, Greg Peters, the co-CEO of Netflix, talking about how, "Hey, you guys want to tax us, the telcos want to tax us, well, maybe you should help us pay for some of the content. Your margins are higher, you have a monopoly, you know, we're delivering all this value, you're bundling Netflix in, from a lot of ISPs so hold on, you know, pump the brakes on that tax," so that's the big news. Lockheed Martin, FOSS issues, AI guidelines, says, "AI's not going to take over your job anytime soon." Although I would say, your job's going to be AI-powered for the next five years. We're going to talk about data, we've been talking about the disaggregation of the telco stack, part of that stack is a data layer. John Kreisa is here, the CMO of Couchbase, John, you know, we've talked about all week, the disaggregation of the telco stacks, they got, you know, Silicon and operating systems that are, you know, real time OS, highly reliable, you know, compute infrastructure all the way up through a telemetry stack, et cetera. And that's a proprietary block that's really exploding, it's like the big bang, like we saw in the enterprise 20 years ago and we haven't had much discussion about that data layer, sort of that horizontal data layer, that's the market you play in. You know, Couchbase obviously has a lot of telco customers- >> John: That's right. >> We've seen, you know, Snowflake and others launch telco businesses. What are you seeing when you talk to customers at the show? What are they doing with that data layer? >> Yeah, so they're building applications to drive and power unique experiences for their users, but of course, it all starts with where the data is. So they're building mobile applications where they're stretching it out to the edge and you have to move the data to the edge, you have to have that capability to deliver that highly interactive experience to their customers or for their own internal use cases out to that edge, so seeing a lot of that with Couchbase and with our customers in telco. >> So what do the telcos want to do with data? I mean, they've got the telemetry data- >> John: Yeah. >> Now they frequently complain about the over-the-top providers that have used that data, again like Netflix, to identify customer demand for content and they're mopping that up in a big way, you know, certainly Amazon and shopping Google and ads, you know, they're all using that network. But what do the telcos do today and what do they want to do in the future? They're all talking about monetization, how do they monetize that data? >> Yeah, well, by taking that data, there's insight to be had, right? So by usage patterns and what's happening, just as you said, so they can deliver a better experience. It's all about getting that edge, if you will, on their competition and so taking that data, using it in a smart way, gives them that edge to deliver a better service and then grow their business. >> We're seeing a lot of action at the edge and, you know, the edge can be a Home Depot or a Lowe's store, but it also could be the far edge, could be a, you know, an oil drilling, an oil rig, it could be a racetrack, you know, certainly hospitals and certain, you know, situations. So let's think about that edge, where there's maybe not a lot of connectivity, there might be private networks going in, in the future- >> John: That's right. >> Private 5G networks. What's the data flow look like there? Do you guys have any customers doing those types of use cases? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> And what are they doing with the data? >> Yeah, absolutely, we've got customers all across, so telco and transportation, all kinds of service delivery and healthcare, for example, we've got customers who are delivering healthcare out at the edge where they have a remote location, they're able to deliver healthcare, but as you said, there's not always connectivity, so they need to have the applications, need to continue to run and then sync back once they have that connectivity. So it's really having the ability to deliver a service, reliably and then know that that will be synced back to some central server when they have connectivity- >> So the processing might occur where the data- >> Compute at the edge. >> How do you sync back? What is that technology? >> Yeah, so there's, so within, so Couchbase and Couchbase's case, we have an autonomous sync capability that brings it back to the cloud once they get back to whether it's a private network that they want to run over, or if they're doing it over a public, you know, wifi network, once it determines that there's connectivity and, it can be peer-to-peer sync, so different edge apps communicating with each other and then ultimately communicating back to a central server. >> I mean, the other theme here, of course, I call it the software-defined telco, right? But you got to have, you got to run on something, got to have hardware. So you see companies like AWS putting Outposts, out to the edge, Outposts, you know, doesn't really run a lot of database to mind, I mean, it runs RDS, you know, maybe they're going to eventually work with companies like... I mean, you're a partner of AWS- >> John: We are. >> Right? So do you see that kind of cloud infrastructure that's moving to the edge? Do you see that as an opportunity for companies like Couchbase? >> Yeah, we do. We see customers wanting to push more and more of that compute out to the edge and so partnering with AWS gives us that opportunity and we are certified on Outpost and- >> Oh, you are? >> We are, yeah. >> Okay. >> Absolutely. >> When did that, go down? >> That was last year, but probably early last year- >> So I can run Couchbase at the edge, on Outpost? >> Yeah, that's right. >> I mean, you know, Outpost adoption has been slow, we've reported on that, but are you seeing any traction there? Are you seeing any nibbles? >> Starting to see some interest, yeah, absolutely. And again, it has to be for the right use case, but again, for service delivery, things like healthcare and in transportation, you know, they're starting to see where they want to have that compute, be very close to where the actions happen. >> And you can run on, in the data center, right? >> That's right. >> You can run in the cloud, you know, you see HPE with GreenLake, you see Dell with Apex, that's essentially their Outposts. >> Yeah. >> They're saying, "Hey, we're going to take our whole infrastructure and make it as a service." >> Yeah, yeah. >> Right? And so you can participate in those environments- >> We do. >> And then so you've got now, you know, we call it supercloud, you've got the on-prem, you've got the, you can run in the public cloud, you can run at the edge and you want that consistent experience- >> That's right. >> You know, from a data layer- >> That's right. >> So is that really the strategy for a data company is taking or should be taking, that horizontal layer across all those use cases? >> You do need to think holistically about it, because you need to be able to deliver as a, you know, as a provider, wherever the customer wants to be able to consume that application. So you do have to think about any of the public clouds or private networks and all the way to the edge. >> What's different John, about the telco business versus the traditional enterprise? >> Well, I mean, there's scale, I mean, one thing they're dealing with, particularly for end user-facing apps, you're dealing at a very very high scale and the expectation that you're going to deliver a very interactive experience. So I'd say one thing in particular that we are focusing on, is making sure we deliver that highly interactive experience but it's the scale of the number of users and customers that they have, and the expectation that your application's always going to work. >> Speaking of applications, I mean, it seems like that's where the innovation is going to come from. We saw yesterday, GSMA announced, I think eight APIs telco APIs, you know, we were talking on theCUBE, one of the analysts was like, "Eight, that's nothing," you know, "What do these guys know about developers?" But you know, as Daniel Royston said, "Eight's better than zero." >> Right? >> So okay, so we're starting there, but the point being, it's all about the apps, that's where the innovation's going to come from- >> That's right. >> So what are you seeing there, in terms of building on top of the data app? >> Right, well you have to provide, I mean, have to provide the APIs and the access because it is really, the rubber meets the road, with the developers and giving them the ability to create those really rich applications where they want and create the experiences and innovate and change the way that they're giving those experiences. >> Yeah, so what's your relationship with developers at Couchbase? >> John: Yeah. >> I mean, talk about that a little bit- >> Yeah, yeah, so we have a great relationship with developers, something we've been investing more and more in, in terms of things like developer relations teams and community, Couchbase started in open source, continue to be based on open source projects and of course, those are very developer centric. So we provide all the consistent APIs for developers to create those applications, whether it's something on Couchbase Lite, which is our kind of edge-based database, or how they can sync that data back and we actually automate a lot of that syncing which is a very difficult developer task which lends them to one of the developer- >> What I'm trying to figure out is, what's the telco developer look like? Is that a developer that comes from the enterprise and somebody comes from the blockchain world, or AI or, you know, there really doesn't seem to be a lot of developer talk here, but there's a huge opportunity. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And, you know, I feel like, the telcos kind of remind me of, you know, a traditional legacy company trying to get into the developer world, you know, even Oracle, okay, they bought Sun, they got Java, so I guess they have developers, but you know, IBM for years tried with Bluemix, they had to end up buying Red Hat, really, and that gave them the developer community. >> Yep. >> EMC used to have a thing called EMC Code, which was a, you know, good effort, but eh. And then, you know, VMware always trying to do that, but, so as you move up the stack obviously, you have greater developer affinity. Where do you think the telco developer's going to come from? How's that going to evolve? >> Yeah, it's interesting, and I think they're... To kind of get to your first question, I think they're fairly traditional enterprise developers and when we break that down, we look at it in terms of what the developer persona is, are they a front-end developer? Like they're writing that front-end app, they don't care so much about the infrastructure behind or are they a full stack developer and they're really involved in the entire application development lifecycle? Or are they living at the backend and they're really wanting to just focus in on that data layer? So we lend towards all of those different personas and we think about them in terms of the APIs that we create, so that's really what the developers are for telcos is, there's a combination of those front-end and full stack developers and so for them to continue to innovate they need to appeal to those developers and that's technology, like Couchbase, is what helps them do that. >> Yeah and you think about the Apples, you know, the app store model or Apple sort of says, "Okay, here's a developer kit, go create." >> John: Yeah. >> "And then if it's successful, you're going to be successful and we're going to take a vig," okay, good model. >> John: Yeah. >> I think I'm hearing, and maybe I misunderstood this, but I think it was the CEO or chairman of Ericsson on the day one keynotes, was saying, "We are going to monetize the, essentially the telemetry data, you know, through APIs, we're going to charge for that," you know, maybe that's not the best approach, I don't know, I think there's got to be some innovation on top. >> John: Yeah. >> Now maybe some of these greenfield telcos are going to do like, you take like a dish networks, what they're doing, they're really trying to drive development layers. So I think it's like this wild west open, you know, community that's got to be formed and right now it's very unclear to me, do you have any insights there? >> I think it is more, like you said, Wild West, I think there's no emerging standard per se for across those different company types and sort of different pieces of the industry. So consequently, it does need to form some more standards in order to really help it grow and I think you're right, you have to have the right APIs and the right access in order to properly monetize, you have to attract those developers or you're not going to be able to monetize properly. >> Do you think that if, in thinking about your business and you know, you've always sold to telcos, but now it's like there's this transformation going on in telcos, will that become an increasingly larger piece of your business or maybe even a more important piece of your business? Or it's kind of be steady state because it's such a slow moving industry? >> No, it is a big and increasing piece of our business, I think telcos like other enterprises, want to continue to innovate and so they look to, you know, technologies like, Couchbase document database that allows them to have more flexibility and deliver the speed that they need to deliver those kinds of applications. So we see a lot of migration off of traditional legacy infrastructure in order to build that new age interface and new age experience that they want to deliver. >> A lot of buzz in Silicon Valley about open AI and Chat GPT- >> Yeah. >> You know, what's your take on all that? >> Yeah, we're looking at it, I think it's exciting technology, I think there's a lot of applications that are kind of, a little, sort of innovate traditional interfaces, so for example, you can train Chat GPT to create code, sample code for Couchbase, right? You can go and get it to give you that sample app which gets you a headstart or you can actually get it to do a better job of, you know, sorting through your documentation, like Chat GPT can do a better job of helping you get access. So it improves the experience overall for developers, so we're excited about, you know, what the prospect of that is. >> So you're playing around with it, like everybody is- >> Yeah. >> And potentially- >> Looking at use cases- >> Ways tO integrate, yeah. >> Hundred percent. >> So are we. John, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Always great to see you, my friend. >> Great, thanks very much. >> All right, you're welcome. All right, keep it right there, theCUBE will be back live from Barcelona at the theater. SiliconANGLE's continuous coverage of MWC23. Go to siliconangle.com for all the news, theCUBE.net is where all the videos are, keep it right there. (cheerful upbeat music outro)

(upbeat music) >> Good morning and welcome back to fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. We're here at AWS re:Invent with wall-to-wall coverage all day long on theCUBE. My name is Savannah Peterson and I am joined this morning by the beautiful Lisa Martin. Lisa, good morning. >> Good morning. Good. >> How you feeling day three? >> Day three is we are going to be shot out of a cannon today. The amount of content coming at you from theCUBE today- >> Get ready, you all. >> Us two gals, is a lot. We're going to have some great conversations. >> And we're starting with a really great one with a Cube Alumni to the max. You've been on the show multiple times. >> John: Yeah. >> Very excited to welcome John, the CMO of Couchbase. Welcome. How you doing this morning? >> Thanks. I'm doing great. Great to be here with you. >> How do you feel about the show so far? What's your pulse? >> The show has been great. I say the energy is great. The traffic at our booth, the conversations that we're having, both with prospective customers and even just partners, right? They're all here. The ecosystem is here >> And everyone's finally back in person and it feels so good. >> John: It does. >> So, we're going to dig in a little bit but just in case the audience isn't familiar, tell us about Couchbase. >> Sure. Couchbase is a publicly traded database company. We have a cloud database platform called Capella which is hosted on AWS and GCP. It is used for building mission-critical applications. So, we have great customers, we're building apps that really matter and are using to drive their business. So, we're very excited about that. 30% of the Fortune 100 are Couchbase customers. >> Nice. Talk a little bit about the AWS relationship. >> Mm-hm. Yeah, so we have a great AWS relationship. In fact, yesterday we announced a deepening of that relationship, a strategic collaboration agreement. We're very excited. It's a multi-year agreement. It's focused on go-to market, from a sales and marketing standpoint. We're going to target, you know, various verticals and, you know, really generate joint business between the two of us. So, it's a deepening of a already strong relationship and we're really excited about that. >> Savannah: Yeah. Go ahead. >> What are some of the industry verticals that you're going to be tackling together? >> Well, gaming for one, right? Manufacturing, the workloads that Couchbase is good for are these mission-critical workloads are ones that are really suited for us to be used with AWS. So, we've done some work with them already in those areas and I'm sure we'll be digging in even deeper. >> That's exciting. Speaking of digging in deeper, tell us a little bit more about Capella. >> Capella. It's a cloud databases services I mentioned. We launched it last October and we are super excited by the uptake, the interest that we're seeing. We have a free 30 day trial, so, you know, people can come and try it and get their hands dirty just getting experience with the product and then, you know, become a customer after that. And we're seeing very strong interest from our existing customer base as well. So, we're really excited about how things are going. >> Talk about Capella and the latest release and how it's really enabling Couchbase to invest deeper into the developer experience. >> Yeah, so, at the end of October, we announced a revamp of our user interface, our user experience for Capella really focused on developers. And what we've done is make it so that it's familiar to developers, right? It's a GitHub-like experience. So, developer comes in, they're very familiar, of course, with GitHub, they are familiar with how the Couchbase Capella interface will work. And so that's something that, you know, we've really invested, in fact, we've invested in developers quite a bit. We announced a Couchbase community hub and a Couchbase ambassadors program, both focused on developers and getting out there and building our community. >> A community is a big topic that we've been talking about at all the conferences this year. We're all back in person, in community. How often are you communicating with your community to get feedback on what that experience should be like? >> Yeah, I mean, we actually have a Discord server, so we're in constant communication. (Savannah laughing) >> Savannah: Yes. (John laughing) 24/7. (laughing) >> Basically, you know, we have staff who's dedicated to making sure that the users on there are getting their answers and giving us feedback on the experience. The ambassadors are somebody who have a really strong relationship, who get early insight and give us feedback before we even release a product. So, it gives us a chance to really test-drive it with core developers and get the insight we need before we get it in the market. >> Yeah. It matters so much. You can build it, but they won't come if it's not fantastic. >> John: Exactly. >> Lisa: Right. >> Let's shift a little bit and talk about customers. How, and price, how do you guys compare? >> Customers and? >> And price, your price performance? >> Price, oh. So, customers, we also announced this week a joint customer Arthrex with AWS. Arthrex is a orthopedics medical devices company and they use our Edge capabilities along with running Couchbase on AWS. So, you think of the kinds of surgeries that orthopedic surgeons do, it's scopes and they are often inside. So, what it does is it collects the data, the video data and all of that on a medical devices and then brings it back to a centralized app for the doctors to use sort of in post when they're actually doing further medical recommendations. >> Savannah: It's so cool. >> So, it's cool, the thing about it is it can work whether it's online or offline, it's one of the reasons that Arthrex selected us because the fact that it can, you know, often sometimes there's not connectivity in the operating room, I'd say deep inside of a hospital. So, these devices work regardless and then when they get connectivity, it sinks back to that centralized service. So, it's one of the main reasons that they selected us. >> That's outstanding. You know, one of the things that John Furrier, you know, John, well, you guys go way back. >> John: Way back. >> He had a sit down with Adam Selensky, oh, about 10 days or so ago. He gets an exclusive with the CEO of AWS every pre re:Invent. And one of the things that Adam said is that the role or the title, data analyst, is going to go away, in that every role will have responsibilities of analyzing data. And I always think of that in terms of operations, marketing, finance, sales, but you just brought up physicians as data analysts in their jobs, right? Probably not, we're thinking about it in that way. >> Yeah. >> But it's so interesting how data is really being democratized. >> John: Yeah. >> And how Couchbase is an enabler of that in an operating room. >> John: Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> That's amazing. >> It's a great story. There's many others and I think, you know, we have embedded operational analytics in Couchbase Capella, and, you know, in our offerings in general. So, what that does is allows us to do real-time, highly personalized applications based on that analytics that are coming in real-time from the data from the applications. And so that's something that's actually driving a highly interactive user experience, one that's very personalized and customized. And that's one of the things that our customers really like about what we do. >> It's fascinating. I never thought about it from a medical device perspective. >> Lisa: No, no. >> John: No. >> My gosh is if doctors don't have enough cognitive burden load. >> John: I know. >> You know, right? Like, they don't need to be a data analyst. I would much rather they were just good at the surgery part. That's a piece of the puzzle I need them to do. Yeah, for sure. That's a fascinating customer example. Can you share any other joint AWS examples with us? >> Joint AW- I mean, there's many in the gaming area where, because Couchbase is memory-first architecture, we deliver very, very interactive user experiences and we're used a lot for session management, user ID management in the gaming space, specifically with AWS. It's an area we've done some joint work already and had a lot of success, you know, with small and large gaming companies. >> Yeah. It looks like you also, according to my notes here, we've got things in travel and hospitality as well. >> Yes. Also Carnival Cruises is a great example. We enable their on-ship, on-board experience, highly customized, everybody wears a device called a medallion, and as they move around the ship, it knows where they are and it's able to provide customized services. You walk up to a bar, you have your favorite drink, it can be hit the bar when you land there. >> I'll take that. >> How about that? (laugh) >> That's outstanding. >> Isn't that great? >> Can we carry that onto the AWS show floor? >> Exactly. >> Or Starbucks order? >> Yeah, yeah. Yes, please. Yes, please. Well, another thing that's so interesting these days, is that every company has to be a data company. Say they have to be a software company. They have to be a data company. You just gave some great examples. Hospitality, gaming, healthcare, where that data democratization has to happen. >> John: Yeah. >> Businesses has to transform. But one of the things that Adam also told John is that CIOs, CEOs are coming to him not wanting to talk about technology but about transformation. >> Yeah. >> Huge topic. >> And that's a journey where every customer is at different levels. >> Yeah. >> How is Couchbase helping businesses transform and where are your customer conversations these days? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, the transformation of the business is a major topic of conversation. So, we completely agree with that. How Couchbase helps is, you know, in our database, one of the things we have is the SQL engine. And so as people are looking to move and modernize their infrastructure, if they're moving off of, or from like a technology that's principally based on SQL but doesn't give all the flexibility of a JSON database or document database like we do, we actually enable them to get more easily onto our platform so that they can start that transformation. And then it's a, you know, it's a journey of how they want to transform their business and it's really focused on how do they better serve their customers and clients, whether it's internal or external? >> It really matters. I mean, and that ease of use as well as the transformation journey. It takes a long time for people to adapt. So, every piece of that puzzle, every Lego being quicker or easier, more intuitive, like you said, with the user experience, we can tell you're very thoughtful. How does this improve the total cost of ownership for your customers? >> That's one of the things that we announced along with that developer changes, was a new storage engine underneath Couchbase Capella. And it's 10 X more dense storage. And what that means is fewer servers. So, fewer servers is a much better cost of ownership story. That plus just the performance of the platform itself, we find, you know, against competition, we can do things on say six nodes that take 18 nodes for others. >> Lisa: Oh wow. >> And we have a great consolidation story as well because we have, it's a multi-modal database, meaning that it has SQL engine, document database, full tech search, eventing and analytics, all these pieces on one common data layer. So, you can actually consolidate off of other technologies onto one, onto Couchbase, and that actually saves you money. So, that's a great story for us. >> There's got to be a sustainability element to that as well? >> Yeah, I mean it's, obviously, if you're using less, using fewer servers, there's a kind of power consumption aspect of it as well. Absolutely. >> Are you finding that a lot of customers and companies we talk to these days have in their RFPs, they must only work with vendors who have an actual ESG program? Are you finding more customers coming to you saying, how can you help us dial down our carbon emissions? >> John: Yeah. >> Savannah: Great question. >> We've got a sustainability program that we've got to meet, we've got commitments to our customers. >> John: Yeah. >> Is that something that's really now kind of a hard and fast requirement? >> We're hearing it, we're definitely hearing it. I wouldn't say it's, you know, massively pervasive but I would say it's a growing component of, as you said, RFPs. And it's something that we feel like we have a great story for. And so, you know, it's something that helps when we get into those conversations, we can clearly articulate how we can provide that value and how we meet some of those needs that they have. >> Yeah, that's awesome. So, we have a bit of a challenge, new to the show at re:Invent. >> John: Mm-hm. >> Where we are prompting you to give us your 30 second Instagram Reel sizzle highlight. Don't worry, I'm not actually timing you, but your thought leadership hot-take on the most important theme or takeaway from this year's show. >> From the conference here. I would say that, and I think this was talked about a little bit by AWS as well, but the convergence of analytics and operational data, you know, through the applications is one that we're certainly seeing as well. It's the reason we have analytics in our database. But as I walk around and look at it, I see that very much as a common theme as well, in terms of what other vendors are saying and just the conversations we're having. So for me, that's one of the things I think would be a takeaway from this show. >> Yeah. Embedded analytics, real-time, everybody wants to know what's going on, in context. >> Yeah. That's right. >> Right now, not last week, not what we're processing from last month. >> Exactly. >> I mean, right? (cross-talking) >> So, I can react and take advantage or take an action if I have to. >> Exactly. And then deliver that personalized experience that we all expect these days. >> Oh, yes. >> I'll take that medallion- >> It's about the medallion. I was like, okay. >> You up with that, John? >> We'll get right on it. >> Lisa: All right. (laughs) >> About this. So, what's next for Couchbase? >> John: Well- >> I know you got the partnership, you've got all this exciting momentum. >> So, we're excited heading into next year. We're going to continue to innovate on Capella, right? Continue to deliver more value, lean into our developer community that we have. We're investing heavily, not just from a product standpoint but from a company standpoint in terms of, you know, our community meetups and some of those things. We have a big community-focused event coming up in March called Connect, Couchbase Connect. So, that's something that we'll, you know, continue to drive. That'll be a major theme for us next year. Cloud and developers and, you know, continuing to enable that ecosystem. >> Lisa: Excellent. >> I just had a Microsoft moment where I saw you saying, "Cloud developers," on stage. (Lisa and Savannah laughing) >> I'm not going Steve Ballmer on you. (all laughing) >> Pardon. I was trying to get someone to sing yesterday. I was hoping you were my Ballmer dance. Oh, man. Well, this has been a really great way to start the day. John, thank you so much for being on the show with us, seriously. And it's great that you keep coming back. I'm glad we haven't scared you off. (John laughing) >> Never. >> Savannah: We will have you anytime. >> Thank you. >> And thank you all for tuning in for yet another fantastic day of all day live coverage here from AWS re:Invent. We are in Sin City, having a fabulous time with Lisa Martin. I'm Savannah Peterson. This is theCUBE and we are the leader in high-tech technology coverage. (upbeat music) (upbeat music fades)

>>Modernizing applications can be a complicated situation. For many folks, it's useful to have some best practices and tangible steps that can remove friction and yield some quick wins. We're now joined by couch based CTO, Ravi meam, who will cover how organizations can approach application modernization, what role the cloud plays and what you need to know about building a business case. Ravi, welcome back to the cube. Good to see you again. >>Very good to see you. Thanks for having me, Dave. >>Yes, our pleasure. Uh, according to a recent couch based digital transformation survey that you guys ran, it was about a 650 respondents, CIOs, CTOs, et cetera. The inertia of legacy technology held back according to the respondents, 82% of enterprises from modernizing their portfolios in 2021. So I wanna talk about the what and the why of modernization. Robbie, what does application modernization mean to you and why is it top of mind for organizations? >>Yeah, I think there have been multiple forces at work here for a while and they have all come to a tipping point with, uh, the pandemic and, uh, uh, it's a combination of factors and, uh, the legacy technologies were built for a different generation of applications. So it's a generational shift that we are undergoing. Uh, part of it is the, the consumption model, which is all cloud based and pay as you go kinda stuff. The other is edge is in the middle of a lot of these conversations together with, uh, the velocity variety, um, of data that you have to actually sort of consume and results that you need to produce. These were all not what the, sort of the, the infrastructure of hold on, which the applications were built on, uh, uh, stand for. So the infrastructure, the substrate requires modernization, uh, in order for the businesses to transform themselves, that's, what's going on. >>We call it digital transformation from a technology perspective, but it's businesses that are transforming, uh, the business models, uh, in front of our eyes. Uh, you know, we have seen the media go from, uh, set up boxes to streaming everywhere, um, like that every business eCommerce has changed, uh, the way we sort of, uh, do any business gaming has changed, uh, the, the banking industry, the healthcare, everything is changing, uh, in terms of the fundamental movement, if you, if you could, uh, sort of say that is to reach the consumer directly and sort of dis intermediate intermediaries. And in that process, the technologies that we had used to build the, the, you know, last previous generation of applications, no longer scale, no longer a nimble enough, uh, no longer cater to the modern, uh, the needs of the modern data and the infrastructure on which, uh, we are standing of these applications. So that's, what's driving the modernization effort. And, uh, in, in that, uh, you know, we have always started say that few years ago, that data is the new oil. Um, so that plays a very critical role in how the data silos and infrastructure that enterprises have is what's holding them back. And, uh, this whole effort is, uh, in, in, in terms of modernizing that infrastructure, uh, through the modern means of, uh, uh, the cloud computing, uh, the modern serverless architectures and microservices, and, uh, the edge and AI play play an important role in this. >>So we're gonna hear later from Amdocs, uh, about their modernization and where couch base helps and fits, but I'd love to hear your perspective as to how couch base helps organizations modernize. >>Right. I think one of the, uh, uh, fundamental things that has happened is that in the last 30, 40 odd years, the data infrastructure has sort of become, uh, a sprawl. Uh, we had built multiple systems, uh, uh, relational databases, cash is, uh, search systems, analytical systems, uh, all, uh, requiring for us to move the data, uh, from one system to the other, in order for you to get the value from those. And this is basically what we call as a data sprawl or database sprawl. And this leads to so many sort of, uh, downstream effects all the way from, uh, data not being available, uh, at the time when the engagement, uh, when the customer is engaged to data governance, security and all those issues, because the threat surface area is wide. And now you're putting all this infrastructure on the modern sort of cloud computing paradigm and, and the costs are sort of ballooning. >>And, uh, because those older infrastructures that were built, uh, when you deploy them on the cloud, uh, it, it creates its ads to the, uh, the complexity of this brawl and on top of the, the cost of this. So, uh, a system like couch base is what, um, uh, simplifies this brawl for, uh, our customers. And it is built for the modern, uh, sort of requirements of scale and performance, low latency, and the flexibility, uh, of being able to sort of not have to go through this whole sort of cycle of whenever you have to have a, a change in your application that touches your data, uh, that it, it actually creates a huge tool in those upgrades and all those life cycle having to CA carry pagers. Uh, I mean, that doesn't work anymore in these days of, I know, five, nine up times and, uh, 24 7, 365 availability of, uh, your services, uh, is so in that area is where couch base sort of helps, uh, our customers to modernize, uh, their sort of data infrastructure. >>It, uh, fuses, um, the multiple technologies that were spread across, uh, into one platform. So it gives a, a simpler programming paradigm, uh, that is one way to scale manage, administer, uh, patch, upgrade. All that mechanism is sort of not just thought through and automated, but it also sort of centralized this, uh, whole thing simplifies at the end of the day, uh, that total task of managing, uh, because that the volume of data that you have to manage now is, you know, orders of magnitude three to four orders of magnitude more than, uh, what it was just a few years ago. And, uh, so in that, uh, containing the sprawl, uh, agility of development, uh, are, are sort of, and the simplicity of deployment and management are some of the key capabilities that, uh, enterprises look to us to solve. And in that, bringing in all the way from cloud to multi-cloud to edge, uh, is how this sort of strategy evolves for enterprises. >>So square this circle for me, cuz in the panel we just had, there's a lot of agreement with what you just said, lift and shift of legacy platforms, doesn't work. Uh, it might work for the cloud vendor to get the data in the cloud, but it generally doesn't work for the customer. And you mentioned sprawl, we talked about this in the panel about, you know, data by its very nature is distributed. We talked about data mesh. There's a lot of skepticism around data mesh, but that that's cool. And you mentioned edge, so yes, I'm interested in the cloud's role here is the idea that you're actually putting all this stuff in one place. How does that fit with the edge? Maybe you could help us understand you're thinking of that and where the cloud fits. >>Yes. Um, you know, it's about, uh, centralizing a data up to a point and decentralizing it's in the magic of how you actually enable that. Um, uh, for example, just your traffic signal, your car, uh, or if you're on a cruise ship, each one is an edge, they all generate petabytes of data. And then you basically, uh, you can consume that, but if you're gonna stream all this data to a centralized place like a cloud that's, uh, you know, most of the data actually is not something that you're gonna store forever. Those are, you know, topical and that information is required at the edge. You should synthesize that information and take the noise from it and discard the signal. So that's where the edge, uh, typically the edge is not some, you know, personal device alone or uh, uh, or a IOT sensor sending data that is also, uh, sort of, uh, one, one element of the edge, but the edge is about decentralizing the cloud. >>So to say, so you can have mul your topologies of not having all your data sit in the cloud centralize someplace behind five firewalls. So when your application tries to reach that all the latency comes into place. So that's what you want to, uh, decentralize and have the data available as close to the engagement of the data with the consumer of it. So in that is the decentralization strategy where you can have multiple techologies, a three, a mesh, uh, however you choose to so that you get to get the data closest. Um, it could be a mobile device. Uh, it could be a, a smaller deployment of a server. It could be, uh, uh, a personal electronic device like watch, or it could be all the way in the IOT gateway. These are the various sort of decentralization of the data that has to happen. >>So it's about moving the data fastest. It's almost like CDN of the data is what, uh, sorry. Uh, for those it's, um, content delivery network is what CDN stands for, where we used to actually move static content in the good old days. That's what made, made our webpages faster. Now we can actually move live data that much faster by using replication technology. So when you move the data towards, towards the edge, what you're trying to do is bring that data closer, uh, to the compute where it's actually happening, as opposed to keeping the data centralized someplace back in the cloud and server and all your application logic is actually sitting on the device or on the edge. So you're constantly, uh, shoveling the data from the cloud to the edge, from edge to the cloud at the time of compute, as opposed to having it available at the time of, uh, um, the consumption of the data. >>That's where the paradigm, uh, shift is actually happening. And, uh, this basically is not about better user experience. It's also about backend networking, other costs that you can actually, uh, gain from, by not having to sort of repeatedly sort of shovel data back and forth. So that's stage strategy that, uh, enterprises are adopting. Now, this is become so to say core part of the architecture of modernization, uh, uh, in terms of where everybody can see this has to move to and, uh, our edge and mobile product, um, also plays a role in, uh, that's one of the other elements aspects of it that customers to look us, uh, look to us >>For. So it's a balance and couch base can play in both places. A lot of the data, if I heard you correctly at the edge is ephemeral, but if I want to do, you know, AI inferencing in real time, I gotta do it at the edge. I can't send it back to the cloud and, and, and do the modeling, you know, post-proces, that's not gonna work. All right, let's talk about the business case, you know, we've, we we've hit on the what and the why, but, you know, how does it get paid for companies sometimes struggle to plan for and budget appropriately for their outcomes? Yes. What do customers need to know about how do they get this past the CFO's office for, in the other business decision makers? >>I think there is an opportunity cost, uh, with the sort of lack of modernization, uh, if, uh, people are doing their classic sort of, so to say it style budgeting, uh, then it will just look like we have to modernize, uh, you know, some older infrastructure. It's not about that. It's about modernizing or making your business relevant, uh, to, uh, to the consumers, because the way consumers, uh, go about consuming your services now is very different from the way you had originally imagined and built for. And in that lies the, the, the transformation, uh, not to see this as a, it, uh, just as an it infrastructure modernization, but more from the standpoint of business transformation and, uh, the tooling that is required for this business transformation to be successful. So it requires the involvement of, um, not leaving it to just, you know, uh, uh, it oriented sort of, uh, uh, thinking of modernizing, but from the standpoint of looking at the, the, the business and what are the transformations that they need to, if they don't keep up with the Jones, they, in this digital divide, they may find themselves in the sort of either the wrong side or in the chasm. >>So I think that mindset, uh, that I was, uh, sort of in addition to sort of, uh, it pushing for this, uh, it's got to have a C-suite, uh, sponsorship understanding and, uh, sort of champion of this, then those initiatives will succeed because, uh, it's not just the technology transformation. It is accompanied by business and sort of, so to say cultural transformation inside the enterprise. >>Yeah. And it's interesting in the survey, it was very much it, you know, survey, I get that and, and the, it pros, the CIOs, et cetera, felt that, that, that, that the it organization was largely responsible for the digital strategy. And I think that was largely a function of, we just came out of the, the pandemic or Hopely coming out of the pandemic. And so they had all these tactical needs, but now you're saying step back, align with the business, make sure the C suite's involved, and that's gonna reduce the friction of, of getting this stuff paid for. >>Correct. And, you know, the, uh, this observation was also there. If you, I must have noticed that, you know, many, uh, of these sort of transf strategies, if you just leave it to like an it thing, they end up being reactive. Uh, but the proactive strategies are the one that actually, uh, succeed because they understand that this is a sort of enterprise transformation. It could be disruptive. Uh, it is what is required for the enterprise to get to the, uh, to the next level, uh, or to be, uh, in this, to be relevant in this sort of modern economy, if you would. So I think that is what, uh, what people are reacting to is the fact that this pandemic has pushed people to modernize quickly. And that may have happened as a reaction to the reality of the situation, but more and more, uh, uh, even among these strategies and more and more initiatives that people are taking, they may have sort of a longer term sort of thinking in this, uh, that requires the, uh, definitely without it's not gonna succeed and they're gonna be in the middle and they'll be, uh, in the forefront of many technology decisions that we have to make, but having a, a C-suite level sponsorship. >>In addition to that, with the impetus of what is the business transformation, this is actually going to achieve, um, those you will see will succeed a lot more because otherwise you, we see that, you know, good, good number of what 80% of these projects fail or, or, or they suffer delays or scale back or never get started, uh, because, you know, uh, the understanding of what is the business value of it is perhaps not, not clearly articulated instead, it just becomes a, a technology modernization conversation without that company benefit. >>Yeah. Got it. Okay. Uh, you guys recently announced some updates to your platform. Can you run us through the, the highlights, you know, what the customers get and, and how it relates to this conversation modernizing application strategies? >>Yes. So, uh, well, we will be, uh, releasing our couch base server 7.1. And, uh, that is what will be the sort of underneath platform for our, the couch base, uh, Capella, which is the, our DBA both, uh, have exciting innovations, um, that we would be putting out. Uh, let me just run through a few things, uh, on the, uh, uh, couch based server seven one, because there are some, uh, amazing, uh, capabilities we have introduced there. We are really excited about the opportunities. This brings couch based into play. Uh, first is we have a, uh, a brand new storage engine that we put in there, which, uh, significant significantly, uh, reduces the, uh, the cost of running couch base. Uh, with this capability, we can actually consume lot less memory and that's, that is like a 10 X improvement on this one. So from that standpoint, we are 10 X more efficient in terms of resource consumption, the expensive memory oriented resource consumption. >>This now allows couch based to sort of not just cater to those high performance, um, you know, hyperscale scenarios that we are known for, but also the more, the classic BIS oriented, uh, applications, which are not that performance sensitive, but they're more cost sensitive. So that's a huge, uh, step forward for couch base because there are a lot more, uh, opportunities where sort of, we become, uh, that much more, uh, cost efficient for enterprises to run. And this is something that, uh, many enterprises have asked for, and we know, uh, many more use cases where we would be more relevant with that innovation. And this has been a, a sort of a long journey building storage engines is, uh, you know, uh, is a very difficult Endover. And we took that on knowing that, uh, what we can achieve here would be a game changer, uh, for couch base. >>And in terms of how, uh, uh, the consolidation of multiple things that you can do in our platform just got this sort of boost of being able to do a lot more with lot less resources. In addition to that, we have done enhancements to our analytics service, uh, with, uh, the work that we have done there. Uh, it, it can sort of do a lot more, um, uh, availability, uh, of the, of, of the analytics service, uh, which, uh, will strengthens the analytics side of the product, which now allows you to run analysis O on J O uh, straight up without requiring the operational side of the, uh, the database. So you can just simply do, uh, straight off analytics stuff, because it, it, it can now, uh, give you the higher availability and disaster recovery that you would want if you're gonna depend on these, uh, systems with that, we are done over some, uh, real good work with Tableau integration, which makes it easy to visualize this, um, uh, uh, and, uh, one other important capability we introduce here is the, um, on, in the entire platform is what we call as user defined functions. >>This now allows us to write custom logic and Java script in the server couch based server. This is, this helps you write procedural logic in the middle of, uh, SQL queries, which is a humongous capability that, you know, and the classical systems process. Now, with that, we have closed the gap. If you know, how to program to sort of classical operational systems, pretty much, you have one to one equivalence of that, uh, in couch. So if you come from the good relational world, uh, it would be very easy breeze for you to understand how to program in this modern, no SQL systems, which both supports, um, uh, SQL as well as the classic asset transaction capabilities. And last, uh, we expanded the support two arm processors, and typically, uh, arm processes, at least save you quarter of, uh, your budget because of it being that much more, uh, uh, cost efficient in terms of, uh, its operational and power capabilities. >>So with that net net, uh, couch based server becomes a lot more, um, uh, cost efficient. And at the same time, it also in one, well becomes that database server, which can both handle your in memory, uh, capabilities that, that speed and hyperscale, as well as, uh, the classical use cases of being, uh, disk, uh, disoriented, uh, classical relational database use cases. Nice. So that, that, that rounds out our offering, it's been a long journey for us to get here from being the high performance, uh, low latency system to, uh, the classical database use case >>Assessment. Yeah. I mean, that's great. You got, you got memory optimization, you mentioned the, the, the, the arm base. Now you're on that curve, which is great software companies love when you get cheaper, faster hardware, uh, you making it easy to speak the language of, you know, traditional stuff. So that's awesome. Um, you and I, you mentioned, uh, Capella, you and I talked about, yes, at couch base connects Capella. You've been moving hard with your DBA strategy, how's it going? And then beyond these announcements, what's what should we look for from couch base? >>You know, uh, our fundamental, uh, mission is to make the developer experience, um, that much more easier, that much, uh, to move all the frictions that, that has existed for developers to adopt couch base. And, uh, the Capella strategy is to leverage the cloud. So you have number one, the ease of development, just bring your browsers, start to learn, develop even simple sample applications and deploy them from there. You can scale, and you can have production level deployments, that whole journey of a developer, along with the ability to sort of have your a, you know, metered billing and pay as you go, uh, uh, pricing, uh, so that it becomes easier for developers to sort of consume this and, uh, show the value of what they can build here. That is our, um, sort of journey of bringing it closer, uh, to our developers and make it simpler for them to sort of, uh, get started and build the, the mission critical applications that they have trusted to build on couch base, to become that much more simpler, faster, and easier for them. So that's the journey. So that's the kind of announcements you will see coming out in Capella. And for that this, this seven one server is, is the platform on which we, we are sort of adding those capabilities to make a Capella that much easier for developers to adopt >>Outstanding. You've been busy and it looks like you've got a lot of value. Yes. All right, we're gonna have to leave it there. Robbie, up next, we bring on the customer perspective with Amdocs. They've got a real world example of a modernization journey that they go through. They had to modernize legacy Oracle WebLogic infrastructure with a microservices architecture, and of course, couch base, keep it right there. You're watching the cube.

>>Mm. >>Amdocs is a leader in providing software and services to some key industries, like telecommunications, media and financial services. In our next session, >>we >>welcome Cedric Jay Gould, who is the head of technical product at Amdocs. And we'll learn about Amdocs modernisation journey and how it added value for their end customers. Cedric. Welcome. >>Welcome. Good. >>Thank you. So describe your modern application, your portfolio, and you know what you're delivering for customers. >>So home dogs is B s s S s players who we are providing a food digital suite for customers. Uh, our customers are communication service providers, which are have to deploy a full digital sweets customer experience. Um, we're for the full os BSS, BSS tax. So, actually, Amdocs is one of the leader in this kind of digital transformation. >>So of course you talk about this as and BS. I mean, you're talking about some really hardened, uh, stacks, right? Uh, telco industry. Uh, say what you want about it, but, boy, the phone works when you dial it. So So you've got this sort of a decades old, you know, platform that you guys have been evolving over the over the years. described this modernisation journey and and the role that couch base played. What value does this offer This modernisation offer to your organisation. And where does Couch based fit? >>Yeah, exactly the same. So that so. Basically what, uh, all solution is You know, it's a broad for you of a large number of components which have to deal with funds, uh, experience of the user and from and then dealing all the, uh, activation of the services in the network in order to deliver a solution, Uh, your services, like mobile services or communication services to, uh, Susan users. So we have a full suites, which, uh, was previously based on, you know, on technology is based on the oracle with web logic and things like that. And what we did is that we do a modernisation of, uh, this something, like, six years ago. A bit more than six years ago. We start to modernisation and transformation of our product into a creative solution. Collaborative solutions. So, uh, and when we did that, we start with Coach base as a partner, uh, to provide the nominative database. So we are actually delivery. We have a guarantee of more than 8000 people developing this product. It's a product which is used by more than 300 customers. Uh, so So it's it's real product that needs to be very flexible. That needs to address many kind of use cases from, uh, Telco or customers, which RCs PS usually till 0 to 1 telco. So we what we wanted to build is a food creative solution that can work on any cloud, then can can skill very, very easily and can address multiple use cases. Okay, And that's why, Coach Base, when we selected Coach Basit, it matched a lot of requirements and criteria as we had. And when we decided to modernise our product, we decided to work with >>you. So you had a lot of experience and and legacy with Oracle and Web logic. I'm curious just to follow up. Why didn't you stay with Oracle? You mentioned? Gotta run any cloud. You gotta be flexible. But could you could you double click on what Couch based delivered from a requirement standpoint, that was such a good fit? >>Well, there's there's a good fit with technology that such as, uh, coach basis. First it's a noise school detonates, right? So it's in terms of performance for some of the youth case that we have. It's very important to have, you know, technology which are are done and optimised for the noise secure use cases. That's the first thing. The second thing as I mentioned the scalability, the fact that you can, almost indefinitely infinitely you can increase the size of your cluster. You can have more, uh, servers and and and And this will skill, you know, very rapidly. And also what we're very interesting to have from coach bases the ability to have something which can be replicated across multiple sites. So with visual technology from coach base, which enable to build, you know, very modern architecture with deployment on multiple agents to have disaster recovery, active, active sites, you know, things like that which are very becoming like the main requirement for more customers now. >>Okay, so I'm presuming there were parts of your application portfolio that you weren't gonna touch and throw away that you had to collect or connect the new with the old. That's always, you know, you know, a challenge. I'm wondering what advice you give to an organisation. That's kind of investing in a similar path, trying to deliver the best digital experiences to customers. You know what? What would you say are the modernisation you gotta have must have, whether it's architecture, internal culture, what are some of those items? >>So so that yes, you're right. I think the integration with the legacy systems is actually, you know, very, very important topic in all domain in the domain. But we we made a very, uh, will see drastic choice or brave choice choice. When, uh, 60 years from now, when we decided to reformat to re platforms are completely or portfolio. Okay, So we we changed more than 95% of our portfolio and 95% of the portfolio today, Arklow native. Which means that they can be deployed on any cloud that actually, they are fully scalable and and and still, we did this transformation. Now, when we do the digital transformation of the, uh, customer system, then we need to integrate with legacy systems, and we need to help our customers to migrate from the legacy systems to creative solutions and doing so, it's important to have in the database domain. It's very important to have a solution which is very flexible in terms of, uh, what kind of data I can manage. And I can, as I said, skill easily, for sure. But also, it's sexual. Okay, Because when you are moving the data from a legacy system or record based or whatever to, uh, another type of, uh, database, you want to be sure that you are you can do it securely, and you're you're not, uh, compromising in any sense, Uh, in terms of security scalability, uh, etcetera. Right. So So, um, in this case, I mean, I will say And then in this opportunities journey, uh, this was very, very, very, very important component in, uh, you know, in our strategy, for all the reasons I mentioned right, it's very coordinative. It's scalable, It's secure. Uh, it's another product, uh, grade. So? So that's that's why it really is. So there's there's a chest back to you. >>You know, this notion that 90 per you really re platform 90% of your portfolio and made a cloud native. That's that's a It's a brave move because a lot of companies do that that I've talked to. They will build an abstraction layer and microservices and make that piece cloud native and then have that kind of overlay. You decided not to do that. Why is that? Was that for performance reasons? You were worried about just bringing along technical debt. I mean, that really must have been an interesting discussion internally in your company. >>Yeah, it's true. I mean, the main motivation, the main driver was business flexibility. Because now we live in a world where our customers, what they need is to be able to test the new feature quickly. And they need to be able to scale the system in a matter of hours. Okay, so we are not in a domain anymore. Where you you when you have to upgrade something, you need to take a few days. It needs to be done in a very, very quickly. And the only way to achieve those, uh, requirements business requirements is to be creative. It's to build microservices and to really realise one of those per cent of, uh, micro services architecture because this is the only way you will have the business flexibility. You will be able to have a resilient architecture. Uh, you know, you can, uh you can deploy this with full high availability across multiple zones, multiple regions and feeling that so, uh, any modern architecture today that that is competing with us, Actually, a micro services based architecture. There is no other way to achieve, uh to to to meet the requirement of the market today, and especially when five g is coming, things will become much more complex. Will become much more, uh, distributed. Uh, you cannot work anymore with the model it architecture. And again, I think the database is nowhere different. Needs to follow the same kind of architecture needs to follow the same principles. So that's that's why am I mean another another point about Yeah, >>So if I If I summarised, it sounds like your top three requirements would be flexibility, which you're getting from the cloud native and microservices piece the scale and the security. Is that right? That I get that right? The three top >>That's right. And the resilience as well. I mean the fact that now you know, with micro services architecture, if one of the system is done, he knows how to self to restart it himself. Right itself. Sorry. So So that's this kind of architecture that we built. It's an architecture which can be resilient in a sense that it can sense itself, and it can ensure full availability. And if something is going down, is not working properly, then on some kind of mechanisms will happen in order to go back to a stable state. >>Yeah. So you've got that automation in there. So you don't doesn't require the labour that it might have 10 years ago. So you're obviously embracing cloud native microservices. So you're on that jury. I'm curious. What are you doing with that? You're you're freeing up. You guys used to bring in lab coats and dig in and figure out what's wrong or restart the system. Where are you in your journey, and how are you? Sort of reallocating those resources. And where do you see that going? >>Yeah, Okay, so that's that's a very good point. Because actually, we when we build this new system, which is unable to do, you know, to self heal himself, right? Uh, actually, the question was more about how we can improve the system, even know how we can be sure that, uh, you know, issues that we we any issues which we are we are facing will not happen again. Well, not actual again. Okay. And this is a, uh, principle. Okay, Practise that we have now people are walking on automation. They're building automation around all these recovery procedures about, uh, fixing. So they're not actually digging into the application now anymore into the system, they learn how the system is walking and buildings all the right automation task to ensure that the system is constantly, constantly resilient. Alright, so that's the necessary practises organisation is now built around. You know, this kind of this approach developed computer develops being fully a geologically having sa reorganisation SRE oriented organisation. And, uh and that's the only way you know you can reach very high, uh, in terms of availability. >>So the big problem that your traditional telco customers have is the amount of data that they're servicing going through the roof and the cost per bit is sinking like that. And you have all the over the top providers coming in creating these customer experiences with modern applications and they've owned the customer data. You mentioned five g. So I'm interested in what the future of modern apps looks like for Amdocs and your customers because five G gives your traditional telco customers the ability if they can have these flexible systems that you're providing to now have better relationships with customers and actually kind of reclaim, you know, some of that that value that they've lost to a lot of competitors, your thoughts on the future. >>So first, you know, technically speaking, we we we will have two challenges. One is about data, and other one is about distribution of the work. Okay, because when we are speaking about five g, we're speaking about the age. We're speaking about the fact that an application may be located very closely to the network because it needs to be to to achieve, you know, to to deliver a very short latency, and, uh and this application can move. Okay, so you you you you will have to be able to distribute completely your your solutions. Okay. And that's why we are working closely with, uh, club providers at the US as you Google and because we we need to be sure that the applications of the systems that we are building will be able to distribute the application as close as possible to the end users. Okay, so that's that's one of the key challenges. Which means that the application is to be very possible and he'd be very scalable, and then it needs to be able to move very quickly from one place to another. That's really what is what What, what? What is happening now and what will become, uh, with five G? The other challenge is behind the communication of all these components is really the data, because now we will capture more and more that are coming from the different systems. And I'm not speaking only about the consequence the customer that are who they are, what they what they like and what they want to do, etcetera. And speaking also about, uh, monitoring that of the systems. Okay, so we will generate a lot of information and this this information needs to be traded very quickly, needs to be stored in very large data lake, and we need to have extraction and manipulation of the data very, very quickly to to give the right information to the applications. Um, in this case, okay, it's very important to have application to have databases that can as I said, skill very quickly. But also we'll be able to have very ideal city note, you know, sense that they with a certain amount of memory or sentiment of storage, you can store a lot of data. And this is where we are always, you know, checking what is the best technologies. And so far, not coach bases, technologies that we're using for for stalking, storing all the data. Because because it's it's a ratio in terms of, uh, performance on the number of data you can store, Uh is very high. Okay, so that's that's another challenge that we're addressing. Of course, God is not the only solution, but it's another another one. >>Excellent. Okay, we're gonna leave it there. Cedric, Thanks so much. A great storey and really appreciate your insights. >>You're welcome. Thank you very much. >>Okay, that's it for today. I hope you've enjoyed the application. Modernisation summit made possible by Couch Base. We shared some fresh survey data and got the perspectives of three expert analysts. We got an outstanding roadmap from Ravi Meyer. Um, who's the CEO of Couch base? And of course, we got the customer angle from Cedric. So look, Maybe you're an organisation going through a modernisation initiative. And if you're thinking about what the future of applications looks like cheque out couch. Based on the road this summer, the application modernisation summit is hitting the road traversing North America and Europe. Find out where they will be where they will be near you by visiting couch based dot com slash roadshow. Ravi is gonna be there along with other thought leaders and peers who will be sharing learnings and best practises on how to modernise now and for the future. And you'll get a chance to interact with some of those piers, something that everyone I know is looking forward to. This is Day Volonte. Thanks for joining us today. And thanks for watching the Cube. Mhm. Yeah. Mm, yeah.

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to this CUBE Power Panel where we're going to talk about application modernization, also success templates, and take a look at some new survey data to see how CIOs are thinking about digital transformation, as we get deeper into the post isolation economy. And with me are three familiar VIP guests to CUBE audiences. Tony Bear, the principal at DB InSight, Doug Henschen, VP and principal analyst at Constellation Research and Sanjeev Mohan principal at SanjMo. Guys, good to see you again, welcome back. >> Thank you. >> Glad to be here. >> Thanks for having us. >> Glad to be here. >> All right, Doug. Let's get started with you. You know, this recent survey, which was commissioned by Couchbase, 650 CIOs and CTOs, and IT practitioners. So obviously very IT heavy. They responded to the following question, "In response to the pandemic, my organization accelerated our application modernization strategy and of course, an overwhelming majority, 94% agreed or strongly agreed." So I'm sure, Doug, that you're not shocked by that, but in the same survey, modernizing existing technologies was second only behind cyber security is the top investment priority this year. Doug, bring us into your world and tell us the trends that you're seeing with the clients and customers you work with in their modernization initiatives. >> Well, the survey, of course, is spot on. You know, any Constellation Research analyst, any systems integrator will tell you that we saw more transformation work in the last two years than in the prior six to eight years. A lot of it was forced, you know, a lot of movement to the cloud, a lot of process improvement, a lot of automation work, but transformational is aspirational and not every company can be a leader. You know, at Constellation, we focus our research on those market leaders and that's only, you know, the top 5% of companies that are really innovating, that are really disrupting their markets and we try to share that with companies that want to be fast followers, that these are the next 20 to 25% of companies that don't want to get left behind, but don't want to hit some of the same roadblocks and you know, pioneering pitfalls that the real leaders are encountering when they're harnessing new technologies. So the rest of the companies, you know, the cautious adopters, the laggards, many of them fall by the wayside, that's certainly what we saw during the pandemic. Who are these leaders? You know, the old saw examples that people saw at the Amazons, the Teslas, the Airbnbs, the Ubers and Lyfts, but new examples are emerging every year. And as a consumer, you immediately recognize these transformed experiences. One of my favorite examples from the pandemic is Rocket Mortgage. No disclaimer required, I don't own stock and you're not client, but when I wanted to take advantage of those record low mortgage interest rates, I called my current bank and some, you know, stall word, very established conventional banks, I'm talking to you Bank of America, City Bank, and they were taking days and weeks to get back to me. Rocket Mortgage had the locked in commitment that day, a very proactive, consistent communications across web, mobile, email, all customer touchpoints. I closed in a matter of weeks an entirely digital seamless process. This is back in the gloves and masks days and the loan officer came parked in our driveway, wiped down an iPad, handed us that iPad, we signed all those documents digitally, completely electronic workflow. The only wet signatures required were those demanded by the state. So it's easy to spot these transformed experiences. You know, Rocket had most of that in place before the pandemic, and that's why they captured 8% of the national mortgage market by 2020 and they're on track to hit 10% here in 2022. >> Yeah, those are great examples. I mean, I'm not a shareholder either, but I am a customer. I even went through the same thing in the pandemic. It was all done in digital it was a piece of cake and I happened to have to do another one with a different firm and stuck with that firm for a variety of reasons and it was night and day. So to your point, it was a forced merge to digital. If you were there beforehand, you had real advantage, it could accelerate your lead during the pandemic. Okay, now Tony bear. Mr. Bear, I understand you're skeptical about all this buzz around digital transformation. So in that same survey, the data shows that the majority of respondents said that their digital initiatives were largely reactive to outside forces, the pandemic compliance changes, et cetera. But at the same time, they indicated that the results while somewhat mixed were generally positive. So why are you skeptical? >> The reason being, and by the way, I have nothing against application modernization. The problem... I think the problem I ever said, it often gets conflated with digital transformation and digital transformation itself has become such a buzzword and so overused that it's really hard, if not impossible to pin down (coughs) what digital transformation actually means. And very often what you'll hear from, let's say a C level, you know, (mumbles) we want to run like Google regardless of whether or not that goal is realistic you know, for that organization (coughs). The thing is that we've been using, you know, businesses have been using digital data since the days of the mainframe, since the... Sorry that data has been digital. What really has changed though, is just the degree of how businesses interact with their customers, their partners, with the whole rest of the ecosystem and how their business... And how in many cases you take look at the auto industry that the nature of the business, you know, is changing. So there is real change of foot, the question is I think we need to get more specific in our goals. And when you look at it, if we can boil it down to a couple, maybe, you know, boil it down like really over simplistically, it's really all about connectedness. No, I'm not saying connectivity 'cause that's more of a physical thing, but connectedness. Being connected to your customer, being connected to your supplier, being connected to the, you know, to the whole landscape, that you operate in. And of course today we have many more channels with which we operate, you know, with customers. And in fact also if you take a look at what's happening in the automotive industry, for instance, I was just reading an interview with Bill Ford, you know, their... Ford is now rapidly ramping up their electric, you know, their electric vehicle strategy. And what they realize is it's not just a change of technology, you know, it is a change in their business, it's a change in terms of the relationship they have with their customer. Their customers have traditionally been automotive dealers who... And the automotive dealers have, you know, traditionally and in many cases by state law now have been the ones who own the relationship with the end customer. But when you go to an electric vehicle, the product becomes a lot more of a software product. And in turn, that means that Ford would have much more direct interaction with its end customers. So that's really what it's all about. It's about, you know, connectedness, it's also about the ability to act, you know, we can say agility, it's about ability not just to react, but to anticipate and act. And so... And of course with all the proliferation, you know, the explosion of data sources and connectivity out there and the cloud, which allows much more, you know, access to compute, it changes the whole nature of the ball game. The fact is that we have to avoid being overwhelmed by this and make our goals more, I guess, tangible, more strictly defined. >> Yeah, now... You know, great points there. And I want to just bring in some survey data, again, two thirds of the respondents said their digital strategies were set by IT and only 26% by the C-suite, 8% by the line of business. Now, this was largely a survey of CIOs and CTOs, but, wow, doesn't seem like the right mix. It's a Doug's point about, you know, leaders in lagers. My guess is that Rocket Mortgage, their digital strategy was led by the chief digital officer potentially. But at the same time, you would think, Tony, that application modernization is a prerequisite for digital transformation. But I want to go to Sanjeev in this war in the survey. And respondents said that on average, they want 58% of their IT spend to be in the public cloud three years down the road. Now, again, this is CIOs and CTOs, but (mumbles), but that's a big number. And there was no ambiguity because the question wasn't worded as cloud, it was worded as public cloud. So Sanjeev, what do you make of that? What's your feeling on cloud as flexible architecture? What does this all mean to you? >> Dave, 58% of IT spend in the cloud is a huge change from today. Today, most estimates, peg cloud IT spend to be somewhere around five to 15%. So what this number tells us is that the cloud journey is still in its early days, so we should buckle up. We ain't seen nothing yet, but let me add some color to this. CIOs and CTOs maybe ramping up their cloud deployment, but they still have a lot of problems to solve. I can tell you from my previous experience, for example, when I was in Gartner, I used to talk to a lot of customers who were in a rush to move into the cloud. So if we were to plot, let's say a maturity model, typically a maturity model in any discipline in IT would have something like crawl, walk, run. So what I was noticing was that these organizations were jumping straight to run because in the pandemic, they were under the gun to quickly deploy into the cloud. So now they're kind of coming back down to, you know, to crawl, walk, run. So basically they did what they had to do under the circumstances, but now they're starting to resolve some of the very, very important issues. For example, security, data privacy, governance, observability, these are all very big ticket items. Another huge problem that nav we are noticing more than we've ever seen, other rising costs. Cloud makes it so easy to onboard new use cases, but it leads to all kinds of unexpected increase in spikes in your operating expenses. So what we are seeing is that organizations are now getting smarter about where the workloads should be deployed. And sometimes it may be in more than one cloud. Multi-cloud is no longer an aspirational thing. So that is a huge trend that we are seeing and that's why you see there's so much increased planning to spend money in public cloud. We do have some issues that we still need to resolve. For example, multi-cloud sounds great, but we still need some sort of single pane of glass, control plane so we can have some fungibility and move workloads around. And some of this may also not be in public cloud, some workloads may actually be done in a more hybrid environment. >> Yeah, definitely. I call it Supercloud. People win sometimes-- >> Supercloud. >> At that term, but it's above multi-cloud, it floats, you know, on topic. But so you clearly identified some potholes. So I want to talk about the evolution of the application experience 'cause there's some potholes there too. 81% of their respondents in that survey said, "Our development teams are embracing the cloud and other technologies faster than the rest of the organization can adopt and manage them." And that was an interesting finding to me because you'd think that infrastructure is code and designing insecurity and containers and Kubernetes would be a great thing for organizations, and it is I'm sure in terms of developer productivity, but what do you make of this? Does the modernization path also have some potholes, Sanjeev? What are those? >> So, first of all, Dave, you mentioned in your previous question, there's no ambiguity, it's a public cloud. This one, I feel it has quite a bit of ambiguity because it talks about cloud and other technologies, that sort of opens up the kimono, it's like that's everything. Also, it says that the rest of the organization is not able to adopt and manage. Adoption is a business function, management is an IT function. So I feed this question is a bit loaded. We know that app modernization is here to stay, developing in the cloud removes a lot of traditional barriers or procuring instantiating infrastructure. In addition, developers today have so many more advanced tools. So they're able to develop the application faster because they have like low-code/no-code options, they have notebooks to write the machine learning code, they have the entire DevOps CI/CD tool chain that makes it easy to version control and push changes. But there are potholes. For example, are developers really interested in fixing data quality problems, all data, privacy, data, access, data governance? How about monitoring? I doubt developers want to get encumbered with all of these operationalization management pieces. Developers are very keen to deliver new functionality. So what we are now seeing is that it is left to the data team to figure out all of these operationalization productionization things that the developers have... You know, are not truly interested in that. So which actually takes me to this topic that, Dave, you've been quite actively covering and we've been talking about, see, the whole data mesh. >> Yeah, I was going to say, it's going to solve all those data quality problems, Sanjeev. You know, I'm a sucker for data mesh. (laughing) >> Yeah, I know, but see, what's going to happen with data mesh is that developers are now going to have more domain resident power to develop these applications. What happens to all of the data curation governance quality that, you know, a central team used to do. So there's a lot of open ended questions that still need to be answered. >> Yeah, That gets automated, Tony, right? With computational governance. So-- >> Of course. >> It's not trivial, it's not trivial, but I'm still an optimist by the end of the decade we'll start to get there. Doug, I want to go to you again and talk about the business case. We all remember, you know, the business case for modernization that is... We remember the Y2K, there was a big it spending binge and this was before the (mumbles) of the enterprise, right? CIOs, they'd be asked to develop new applications and the business maybe helps pay for it or offset the cost with the initial work and deployment then IT got stuck managing the sprawling portfolio for years. And a lot of the apps had limited adoption or only served a few users, so there were big pushes toward rationalizing the portfolio at that time, you know? So do I modernize, they had to make a decision, consolidate, do I sunset? You know, it was all based on value. So what's happening today and how are businesses making the case to modernize, are they going through a similar rationalization exercise, Doug? >> Well, the Y2K era experience that you talked about was back in the days of, you know, throw the requirements over the wall and then we had waterfall development that lasted months in some cases years. We see today's most successful companies building cross functional teams. You know, the C-suite the line of business, the operations, the data and analytics teams, the IT, everybody has a seat at the table to lead innovation and modernization initiatives and they don't start, the most successful companies don't start by talking about technology, they start by envisioning a business outcome by envisioning a transformed customer experience. You hear the example of Amazon writing the press release for the product or service it wants to deliver and then it works backwards to create it. You got to work backwards to determine the tech that will get you there. What's very clear though, is that you can't transform or modernize by lifting and shifting the legacy mess into the cloud. That doesn't give you the seamless processes, that doesn't give you data driven personalization, it doesn't give you a connected and consistent customer experience, whether it's online or mobile, you know, bots, chat, phone, everything that we have today that requires a modern, scalable cloud negative approach and agile deliver iterative experience where you're collaborating with this cross-functional team and course correct, again, making sure you're on track to what's needed. >> Yeah. Now, Tony, both Doug and Sanjeev have been, you know, talking about what I'm going to call this IT and business schism, and we've all done surveys. One of the things I'd love to see Couchbase do in future surveys is not only survey the it heavy, but also survey the business heavy and see what they say about who's leading the digital transformation and who's in charge of the customer experience. Do you have any thoughts on that, Tony? >> Well, there's no question... I mean, it's kind like, you know, the more things change. I mean, we've been talking about that IT and the business has to get together, we talked about this back during, and Doug, you probably remember this, back during the Y2K ERP days, is that you need these cross functional teams, we've been seeing this. I think what's happening today though, is that, you know, back in the Y2K era, we were basically going into like our bedrock systems and having to totally re-engineer them. And today what we're looking at is that, okay, those bedrock systems, the ones that basically are keeping the lights on, okay, those are there, we're not going to mess with that, but on top of that, that's where we're going to innovate. And that gives us a chance to be more, you know, more directed and therefore we can bring these related domains together. I mean, that's why just kind of, you know, talk... Where Sanjeev brought up the term of data mesh, I've been a bit of a cynic about data mesh, but I do think that work and work is where we bring a bunch of these connected teams together, teams that have some sort of shared context, though it's everybody that's... Every team that's working, let's say around the customer, for instance, which could be, you know, in marketing, it could be in sales, order processing in some cases, you know, in logistics and delivery. So I think that's where I think we... You know, there's some hope and the fact is that with all the advanced, you know, basically the low-code/no-code tools, they are ways to bring some of these other players, you know, into the process who previously had to... Were sort of, you know, more at the end of like a, you know, kind of a... Sort of like they throw it over the wall type process. So I do believe, but despite all my cynicism, I do believe there's some hope. >> Thank you. Okay, last question. And maybe all of you could answer this. Maybe, Sanjeev, you can start it off and then Doug and Tony can chime in. In the survey, about a half, nearly half of the 650 respondents said they could tangibly show their organizations improve customer experiences that were realized from digital projects in the last 12 months. Now, again, not surprising, but we've been talking about digital experiences, but there's a long way to go judging from our pandemic customer experiences. And we, again, you know, some were great, some were terrible. And so, you know, and some actually got worse, right? Will that improve? When and how will it improve? Where's 5G and things like that fit in in terms of improving customer outcomes? Maybe, Sanjeev, you could start us off here. And by the way, plug any research that you're working on in this sort of area, please do. >> Thank you, Dave. As a resident optimist on this call, I'll get us started and then I'm sure Doug and Tony will have interesting counterpoints. So I'm a technology fan boy, I have to admit, I am in all of all these new companies and how they have been able to rise up and handle extreme scale. In this time that we are speaking on this show, these food delivery companies would have probably handled tens of thousands of orders in minutes. So these concurrent orders, delivery, customer support, geospatial location intelligence, all of this has really become commonplace now. It used to be that, you know, large companies like Apple would be able to handle all of these supply chain issues, disruptions that we've been facing. But now in my opinion, I think we are seeing this in, Doug mentioned Rocket Mortgage. So we've seen it in FinTech and shopping apps. So we've seen the same scale and it's more than 5G. It includes things like... Even in the public cloud, we have much more efficient, better hardware, which can do like deep learning networks much more efficiently. So machine learning, a lot of natural language programming, being able to handle unstructured data. So in my opinion, it's quite phenomenal to see how technology has actually come to rescue and as, you know, billions of us have gone online over the last two years. >> Yeah, so, Doug, so Sanjeev's point, he's saying, basically, you ain't seen nothing yet. What are your thoughts here, your final thoughts. >> Well, yeah, I mean, there's some incredible technologies coming including 5G, but you know, it's only going to pave the cow path if the underlying app, if the underlying process is clunky. You have to modernize, take advantage of, you know, serverless scalability, autonomous optimization, advanced data science. There's lots of cutting edge capabilities out there today, but you know, lifting and shifting you got to get your hands dirty and actually modernize on that data front. I mentioned my research this year, I'm doing a lot of in depth looks at some of the analytical data platforms. You know, these lake houses we've had some conversations about that and helping companies to harness their data, to have a more personalized and predictive and proactive experience. So, you know, we're talking about the Snowflakes and Databricks and Googles and Teradata and Vertica and Yellowbrick and that's the research I'm focusing on this year. >> Yeah, your point about paving the cow path is right on, especially over the pandemic, a lot of the processes were unknown. But you saw this with RPA, paving the cow path only got you so far. And so, you know, great points there. Tony, you get the last word, bring us home. >> Well, I'll put it this way. I think there's a lot of hope in terms of that the new generation of developers that are coming in are a lot more savvy about things like data. And I think also the new generation of people in the business are realizing that we need to have data as a core competence. So I do have optimism there that the fact is, I think there is a much greater consciousness within both the business side and the technical. In the technology side, the organization of the importance of data and how to approach that. And so I'd like to just end on that note. >> Yeah, excellent. And I think you're right. Putting data at the core is critical data mesh I think very well describes the problem and (mumbles) credit lays out a solution, just the technology's not there yet, nor are the standards. Anyway, I want to thank the panelists here. Amazing. You guys are always so much fun to work with and love to have you back in the future. And thank you for joining today's broadcast brought to you by Couchbase. By the way, check out Couchbase on the road this summer at their application modernization summits, they're making up for two years of shut in and coming to you. So you got to go to couchbase.com/roadshow to find a city near you where you can meet face to face. In a moment. Ravi Mayuram, the chief technology officer of Couchbase will join me. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech enterprise coverage. (bright music)

>>Okay. We're here at the cube covering Couchbase connect online 2021 modernized. Now this is Dave Vellante and I'm here with Couchbase CEO, Matt Kane. We just saw them at your keynote, blending out the journey to the modern enterprise. Thanks for taking some time with us. >>Hey, thanks, Dave. Great to see you again. Hope everything's well with you. >>Good. Thank you. You know, hanging in there. So look, the big themes from my standpoint, where it's not just about what I call paving the cow path. What I mean by that is just moving old to new, you know, that's good. And it's gonna allow you to simplify and be more agile. But the point I take away is you should also build a new capabilities, maybe share some of your thoughts and add some color, please, to those takeaways. >>I think that's a great takeaway, Dave. And when we think about this, we step back and we put ourselves in the shoes of our customers and whether it's retail customers or next generation financial services or healthcare providers, or what have you each and every one of our customers around the world are thinking about how to create better experiences for their customers. And Dave, we go through this every day, whether it's on our personal lives or in our professional lives, we expect our technology to help us and create better, highly interactive, personalized experiences via the applications that we leverage throughout the day. And you and I have probably access tens if not, hundreds of applications up to this point, uh, today. And we'll, we'll do that as we continue to go forward. And so if you think about, well, what are the challenges of these enterprises to create those experiences? >>Well, at the end of the day, they're writing applications and those applications need to draw upon massive amounts of data and to provide the experiences that we're talking about today. It's not just structured information, but it's unstructured information. And how do I put that together in a seamless way that I create real-time runtime experiences? Well, at the end of the day software, um, developers can, can write code to do anything, but on the critical path of all that is a database. And if you don't have a database that can serve these applications, you're dead in the water. And so as the enterprise thinks about building applications, they're constantly thinking about new capabilities. How can I provide a recommendation engine for Dave, or how can I ensure that the promotion fits the needs of him and his family when he's booking a particular trip, but at the same time, there's legacy applications that have been built and optimized for many, many years, that that are storing critical information and algorithms that need to be combined with those new capabilities to create the experience of people are after. >>And so when you really look at it from a database perspective, you have to modernize your application stack, but you also have to combine that with new capabilities. Now that's easier said than done. The challenge is to do at a database layer are fundamentally sophisticated and some of the most advanced computer science challenges that exist in all of technology. And that is what Couchbase is about. We have carefully architected a platform that bridges some of the best of relational technology with that of modern, no SQL technology in a single integrated platform that services not only enterprise architects, but application developers to provide the very experiences that you and I have come to expect, and that we're going to expect to increase as, as we go forward. So you're absolutely right. It is about putting those two things together. So is that, >>Is that w what you just described is that what you mean by multimodal two-part question? And then the second part is, are you seeing any industry patterns where that appears to be more relevant? >>So when we, when we talk about multimodal, Dave, we're very specific in, in what that means, and, and that's essentially taking a platform approach to data management. So how do we ensure that we have multiple ways to manage data inside of our platform? Couchbase is a key value cache or a document data store. We support, uh, acid transactions, and we've also added operational analytics. And so if you think about all of those modalities, a lot of application teams would think, well, do I need disparate solutions, uh, you know, to, to solve those problems. We think it's of fundamental importance as the modern database for enterprise applications, that we put that together in a single platform, because that's how applications want to be, uh, developed on top of that. We layer on additional services that developers can take advantage of to right, you know, these really rich, personalized, uh, applications. >>And so, as we think about our path forward and some of the market dynamics, we see one of the dynamics that we think is going to play out over the next few years is enterprises. Can't continue to proliferate point solutions for all these disparate problems that they solve. They need to bet on strategic solutions that are going to be platforms to support many of these needs as these go, as they go forward, particularly as they think about long-term total cost of ownership. And when we think about the modalities we're supporting and the enterprise applications we support, we want to ensure that we are a tool that can be leveraged for the right use cases, and then make sure that we have the connection points to other solutions that were not built and optimize for, to have a complete solution for our enterprise customers. So multi-modal layer consolidation platform approach. We think this is going to be absolutely critical as we get into the next chapters of the database transition. >>Great. Thank you for that. So you just described, you know, your UVP to me anyway, your unique value proposition. And I wonder if you could, in thinking about the market big waves that are occurring now, the hybrid work, digitization, the reliance on cloud and cloud migration, how does your unique value prop tie in if you will vector in to those trends that we also often talk about? >>Yeah. Great question, Dave. I appreciate you raising that. So what, what I was articulating, um, were some really important attributes of what may Couchbase Couchbase that were multimodal. We take a platform approach under the hood. Dave, we take great pride in the architectural approach that we have, um, up to this point in building that platform, uh, we're an in-memory shared nothing scale out cloud native architecture that has been designed for today and the future scale and performance. We've architected our platform to run anywhere. So enterprises enjoy the benefits of running in all major public clouds. They can run in private data centers and they can run all the way out to the edge in a single integrated platform with continuity between any point of that network. Topology, if I'm an active, active, active, fail over active, active, passive, any one of those configurations, that is the dependency of distributed applications. >>And we as users want the application to be up and running with the appropriate amount of data wherever. And whenever we are Couchbase has been built for the highest scale and performance to run in that distributed environment. With those modalities that I talked about now to increase, uh, our relevance in the enterprise. There are two personas that we think about a lot. One of them are the architects who are responsible for ensuring that things run in public clouds, that they scale and perform that they meet the SLS of the businesses they serve. But critically important. As you know, Dave is the role of application developers. They got to write killer apps. And so if you think about the needs of enterprise architects, scale performance, reliability, GDPR, CCPA security, those are really, really important. Developers are focused on flexibility, ease of use agility also really, really important, putting those together in an integrated platform. That's what makes Couchbase Couchbase. And there is no other vendor that can bring those capabilities tied to the themes of data, explosion, everything happening at the edge, a single platform that can leverage structured and unstructured information. When we talk about being ready for this moment and why we're so excited about our future and why you're hearing customers say the amazing things they are at our show, it's because of that unique architecture and, and the fact that Couchbase is truly differentiated as a modern database for enterprise applications for the future. >>You know, sometimes those things are counter poised, right? The architectural Providence, and the need for developer agility. That is a nontrivial challenge. Um, in, in one the computer science challenge that obviously you're focused on your big news here, uh, at the show is Couchbase Capella, Capella, by the way, as the brightest star in the constellation, or I go for those of you space nuts. Well, what are the critical aspects of Capella related to Couchbase's cloud strategy? And what does this announcement mean for your customers, Matt? Yeah, >>We couldn't be more excited about a Capella and I'd like to take a moment to congratulate the teams that have been working so hard at Couchbase to, to get to this moment. Um, also want to thank our customers for all the input, uh, that, that we take very seriously. And in thinking through our innovation, um, is we think about all the things we've talked about up to this point. Those are fundamentally important. And we think about the capability of a database that enterprises need. What we also spend a lot of time thinking about is how do customers consume all of that capability, right? And, and enterprises want freedom of choice on how they consume deploy, run, and manage their database for a lot of our customers, they're very happy leveraging our platform and managing that. And they're very diverse, very customized, specific environments, but there are a lot of customers that want us to take over the management and the operation of the database. >>They want the fastest path to D developer, agility and productivity, uh, and they want the best TCO relative to other databases of service offerings. And that is exactly what we have provided with Couchbase Capella. So customers can now come to us, they're up and running with the best database in the industry. Self-serve easy to use up and going, you know, the, the, the most simple experience and the fastest path to value, but that TCO point is fundamentally important. And what's interesting the way we've architected this, the more you scale with Couchbase Capella, the better the TCO gets. And I think that demonstrates our focus on enterprise, the mission critical nature of, of the applications that we support. Um, but you know, we're, we're really excited about Capella. We think it's going to be a great experience for our existing customers, our new customers, um, along with the announcement of the product today, you've heard some things about some of the packaging and ways in which developers can try out the solution in a really unique and cool way. We're providing other great experiences for developers on technical integrations and ideas from other customers on how to take advantage of the Couchbase platform. So we're thinking pretty holistically about consumption, uh, experience. Uh, and again, the fact that it's built on a kind of the foundation of, of Couchbase server seven oh, and, and our, our core platform with all the advantages that that brings with it. Uh, we're, we're pretty excited about the, uh, the announcement and all that that has for, for the company in front of us. So let's on >>For a minute and I want to double click on the, how you see the uniqueness of Capella. So when I think about Couchbase's heritage, the idea of next-generation not, not only SQL database, the acid properties that you talked about, the scale and the performance required for mission critical workloads and your focus on sequel fluency, these tenants of differentiated Couchbase, is it sort of the same kind of approach for Capella and what specifically differentiates Capella in your mind from the spate of other database databases, a service offerings that are out there in the marketplace? >>Well, look at it. When, when enterprises are thinking about applications, particularly the applications that they're running their business on, I like to say the good enough is not a viable strategy for the database. And what that means is you've got to have high performance, you've got to have scale, you've got to have, you know, distributed, uh, attributes. We believe fundamentally that you need to go cloud to edge. Um, that's going to be paramount and we're going to continue to innovate on our core database. So to take all of that power and then put it in a consumption model, as easy as Capella, I mean, Dave, we now have people being able to get up and running in a matter of minutes and, and they're writing applications, uh, on Capella leveraging the full power and breadth of all the capabilities, uh, in, in Couchbase. And going back to something that we talked about earlier dynamics in, in the industry will enterprise is really need to think about total cost of ownership. >>So how am I innovating and solving some of my most fundamental application challenges, but mindful of, you know, the cost and the return of that over time for us to come out with the highest performing database at the lowest TCO for those applications. I mean that that's pretty radical innovation and, and pretty true differentiation that our enterprise and other customer segments are really looking forward to. And then you layer in the fact that we're doing all of this in the de facto language that everybody in the world, the database speaks, which is cul you know, we like to say, it's easy SQL you get up and running, you're going, we speak your dialect. And we give you all of the benefits of this modern platform that are gonna make your job easier. Uh, you know, I think there's a reason why it's the brightest star in, uh, in, in the hemisphere. >>You know, it's funny, you, you, you, you used to talk about your, your S your SQL prowess. And, and that was that, that was the epiphany to me in the early days of big data. It was like the killer app for big data was SQL. And that changed. Everybody's thinking, let's talk about what's next for Couchbase you're a public company now, what are your priorities? How are you spending your time met? >>Well, look, Dave, we're, we're, uh, we're, we're gonna main remain maniacally focused on ensuring that we continue to innovate and solve the biggest problems, the biggest database challenges for enterprise customers. Um, we believe deeply in architecting differentiation that can be sustained over time. Uh, we've done that up to this point and we're going to remain steadfast in that mission. Uh, at the same time, we are entirely focused on satisfying our customers and, uh, demonstrating that we're a business partner, not just, just a vendor. So, you know, building partnerships, making sure we have the appropriate technical integration, supporting customers on their digital transformation strategies, continuing to invest in those capabilities to support customer journeys and make sure they're successful through that through their transformation. I mean, we're investing across all aspects of the business, across all aspects of the world. Uh, we're going to continue to be extremely proud of not just what we do, but how we do it. >>We are a values based organization. We have an incredible world-class team that we continue to grow on on a daily basis. And I'm going to make sure that we're spending time on each one of those and those things are in harmony. So we can continue to build a very vibrant, uh, company that's going to be around for a long, long time and continue to do great things for our customers. When we think about next generation technology, we are in the early innings of what we believe to be truly a generational market transition and the demands of applications and all things digital and combining, you know, technology that goes truly out to the edge and redefining what the edge is even, uh, and, and really thinking through how a platform needs to go, where the data resides to provide people, the experience and machines, the experiences that they need, uh, to, uh, complete their mission of digital transformation. Uh, there's some really mind-bending stuff that we're thinking through as we get, as we get way out there. Uh, but we're gonna continue to do it through the lens of solving big customer problems, making sure they're successful and then continuing to innovate as we go forward. >>Well, we're really excited to follow you guys report on this. And the database is no longer just kind of a bespoke bucket. It's a fundamental component of, of a digital fabric that's growing and becoming ubiquitous as part of a new data era. So we want to thank everybody for watching this keynote summary with Matt Kane, CEO of Couchbase Matt. We wish you all the best in the years ahead, and we look forward to seeing you in person, hopefully in the near future. >>Thanks a lot. See you soon, Dave. Appreciate >>It. All right. Thank you for watching our coverage at Couchbase connect 2021 modernized. Now keep it right there for more coverage that educates and inspires. You're watching the cube.

>> Welcome to the Cubes coverage of Couchbase connect online 2021. I'm Lisa Martin. I have a first timer here on the cube Priya Rajgopal, the director of product management from Couchbase joins me next. Priya, welcome to the program. >> Thank you, Lisa. Thanks for having me here and glad to be here. First timer. So really excited. >> Yeah. Well, we'll make sure that you're going to have fun. We're going to talk about edge computing and what I'd love to get is your perspectives on what's going on and the evolution in the last 18 months. I'm sure so much has changed, but talk to me about edge computing what's going on >> Sure. >> Sure. there's 6 lot of literature on there and different there's a lot of literature on there and different interpretations and the way we see it at Couchbase, it's a distributed computing paradigm, that brings compute and storage to the edge. And what is the edge? The edge is the location where data is generated or consumed. And so the edge, again, the taxonomy is varied, but it's really a continuum. So it's not a thing, right? So it's a location. So it could be a single device or it could actually be a data center. And so it's getting a lot of traction with the proliferation of a lot of applications around AR, VR, IOT, and mobile devices and mobile applications. Because it delivers on the promise of ultra low latency access to data because you know, the edges where the data is generated and consumed, data privacy, governance, residency to network disruptions, low bandwidth usage. So to your question on how does mobile fit into the space of edge computing? In my view, mobile application, mobile devices are a classic example of edge computing because think about mobile devices, right, they're generating data, they're processing data, applications are processing data right there on the devices. You can store data in offline mode on those devices. So it is a classic edge device. And of course, the data doesn't have to be generated on the device itself. There's mobile applications could sort of be gateways to other external like variables for instance, and other IOT devices, which can connect to these mobile applications. And these mobile applications could process that data. >> Got it. So thank you for sharing Couchbase's definition. And it's a good point to do that as so many times, there's so many different terms and solutions and technologies that can be interpreted and explained many different ways. Let's now go through Couchbase's role in edge computing. Help the audience understand where you fit into that. >> Sure. So if you recap the definition, right? edge computing is all about storage and compute to the edge. So clearly a database has a key role to play in this model, Right? Or in this paradigm, because when you think about it, a classic application architecture, you've got three tiers, you've got an application tier, it includes your business logic, some of the UI elements, that's optional. You've got your database tier, which drives the application, Does the obligation needs data? It's driven by the database tier. And then you've got the infrastructure tier, that includes your network storage compute. Now, when you're talking about an edge computing architecture, you're talking about distributing all these three tiers. Your application tier, a database tier, as well as your infrastructure tier and a Couchbase is a fully distributed, no sequel database solution. So it fits in right into this paradigm of edge computing. Now, when we are talking about distributing our storage, that's just one aspect of it, right? You have to distribute it to these edge devices. You may have to distribute it to edge data centers, You need to be able to sync or move data between these You need to be able to sync or move data between these distributed cloud environments, right? So data synchronization is a key component of the tier of of edge computing architectures. And then finally, there's data management. That's all about enforcement of policies, when it comes to data privacy, you know what, data needs to be resident at the edge, what data needs to be filtered, what needs to be aggregated? what data needs to be filtered, what needs to be aggregated? So you need a solution that can provide those hooks that allows you to enforce those policies. So, a database like Couchbase has a critical role to play solution that can be deployed in the cloud, or it can be deployed at the edge. And again, or it can be deployed at the edge. And again, the edge could be a data center or it could be a device. So what about device? We have an embedded database solution for mobile desktop and embedded platforms. And then of course, data movement, comprehensive data synchronization technology. comprehensive data synchronization technology. >> Let's go through specifically some of the database capabilities that are required for businesses in any industry to be successful in edge computing. >> Sure, absolutely. Right. to do sort of reiterate or reinforce the three concepts, right? Data storage, data movement, data management, right? And Couchbase technology because that the stack consists of couchbase server, our flagship fully distributed, no sequel data platform. It can be containerized. It can be deployed in any public or private cloud. It could be deployed at the edge cloud. And then you've a Couchbase lite. Again, no sequel embedded database full featured, right? Anything that you can do with a standalone database, you can do it with the embedded database. Now you can embed that within your mobile applications, within your other embedded applications or desktop applications. And that's great, right? That's the data storage part of it. And, and that's one part of it, but what about the data movement? And that's where you got a data synchronization technology where we facilitate a high throughput, high performance, highly scalable data synchronization, between the edge and the cloud. And of course, as I mentioned, data management is a critical aspect of all this, right? And so the synchronization technology has got components that allow you to set filters, access control policies. And there's a lot of hooks when it comes to data governance. So for instance, if an edge goes out of commission, or if there's a security breach, for instance, you want to isolate the edge, you can do that. The data that was previously synchronized to that edge, you want to be able to poach that data. So we have options the automatically poach the data, if the device is no longer in the hands of the right recipient for instance. those are the critical aspects. Of course, the overarching theme is security, right? And, that goes hand-in-hand with encryption of the data at rest, encryption of the data in motion, then authentication, authorization, access control. >> Security is even more important in given the events of the last 18 months where we've seen a massive rise in ransom, where we've seen a huge rise in DDoS attacks. Let's, double-click more on the security aspect of what Couchbase is delivering. >> Sure, absolutely. So when it comes to security of data at rest, right, even when the Couchbase lite, which is our embedded device, your entire database is encrypted AES-256 data encryption, and then data, when it leaves the device through our data synchronization protocol, everything is encrypted. And of course, when it goes to a sync gateway, the sync gateway is sort of, as I mentioned, the middle tier component, that is responsible for data synchronization between the embedded devices and Couchbase server. That entity is responsible for enforcement of access control policies. So you are guaranteed that only users who should have access to those documents or data are granted access to that. And in fact, we are NoSQL Json database. So which means, everything is modeled in the form of documents, Json documents. And so when we're talking about read, write access control, read access is at the granularity of a document, and write access can be enforced at the granularity of a property within the document. So you may have access to an entire document, but you may only be allowed to update a certain property within the document. So, as I mentioned, when it comes to distributed computing architectures like edge computing, security is even more paramount, right? You have devices going offline, coming back online and, you might have a breach point at one edge environment, whether it is a data center or an edge device, you need to be able to ensure that you have isolated all the other edge components from that breach. And as I mentioned, when it comes to data governance and so on, data retention, for instance, even if it is not a security breach, let's say you do have, for some reason, the owner of a device should no longer have access to that content. You know, their role has changed, they have transitioned to a different company for instance. Then you will have a way of automatically purging all that data that was previously synchronized to the user's device. >> Got it. Okay. Let's continue talking about the events of the last year and a half. Because we saw this massive scatter, 18 months ago of an explosion at the edge when a lot of people went from the office to this work from home, work from any anywhere environment in which we're still in. So how has the pandemic and the events that related to it changed mobile apps and edge computing and what are some of the new requirements that customers have? >> Sure. Well, as you rightly said, right? In fact, if anything, the relevance of mobile devices and applications has just grown in significance through the pandemic. And it's kind of interesting, there are some surveys that have suggested that through the pandemic people have been using their mobile devices as their primary communication device for accessing the internet. And it's kind of interesting because you think, well, everyone is cooped up in their homes. They probably will have access to other forms of data consumption, but no, it's mobile devices. That's what they have primarily been using. So with that, there is also a new range of use cases and applications, which are driven in large part by the events of the pandemic. But I think that's just made things much more efficient. Customer satisfaction, user experience is paramount, is number one. And I think a lot of that is here to stay even following or post pandemic because it's just made things a lot more efficient. And we've seen that through different industries, right? Healthcare, there was always telemedicine medicine, but now for non-essential care, it's always telemedicine, Of course, specific to the pandemic. there was the, tracking, the contact tracing application, right? That's enabled through technologies like Bluetooth and GPS, so they track the whereabouts of infected persons. But then even if you arrive at your doctor's office, right, you wait in your car and you get notified when the doctor's ready to check you in. And then retail sector, E-commerce right? Of course everything was going online, but everything is overwhelming People are shopping online through their mobile devices, than the traditional web based applications. And you order on your phone, you pick up at the store, right? So curbside pickup, you pull into the store, the store clerk is notified of your arrival. They come out to the curb with your order. And here's the interesting bit, you know, it's kind of intuitive that it's going to be e-commerce applications. They got a huge boost through the pandemic. But interestingly, even the experience when it comes to retail in store, that's undergone a transformation because it was all about how do we make the process very efficient. So customers are in and out of the store really quick, right? there was the reason for that. But now we can translate to making the whole shopping experience much more easy. So you walk into the store, you meet a sales associate who can bring up information about the catalog inventory right there on the iPad. And so if you have any questions, whether it's something is available in the store or an access for you're looking for, they can give answers to you immediately. Right? And of course there are companies like Walmart, they have been rolling out applications. Mobile scan and go sort of applications, which is all about, you know, you scan items as you walk through the aisle, do a self checkout, totally contact-less experience. And, the list goes on, right? We talked about healthcare retail, same thing in, in a restaurant, right? A curbside that delivery and pickup, you can now track your delivery order because now it's just a huge surge in order deliveries. And then the same pickup concept, curbside pickup concept, you arrive in your car, the kitchen is notified of your arrival and they come out with your order, very streamlined drive-through. You've got people now coming to your car, taking the order, right there from the car on their tablets, that synced in real time to the backend kitchen, your order. And you get notified when your order is ready. So I think all this is about making things a lot more efficient. It's about customer experience, and edge computing has a big role to play in that. And so I think, if anything is just propelled the growth of mobile applications and use cases. >> Yeah. That that propulsion is something that we've been hearing a lot about the acceleration in the last year and a half. You did a great job there of painting a picture of some of the positives that come out of this accelerating the efficiencies that we all as consumers and in our business life expect to have. And this explosion at the edge that's really become even more of a lifeline for millions and millions and billions of people globally. I got to ask you that from a connectivity perspective, that's another area where we had this expectation as again, consumers or in our business lives we have connectivity. Where does all that talk about 5G; What does 5G fit into edge computing? >> Sure. That's a good question. Because 5G and edge computing sort of go hand in hand so much so that they are being used synonymously in some cases and that's inaccurate. Okay? So because every time people talk about edge computing, there are folks talking about 5G in the same breath, right? But really 5G, as we all know, is a cellular next generation cellular technology, promises, ultra low latency, very high bandwidth. Now we talked about this huge surge, right in mobile applications and new sort of use cases where a lot of the data is generated at the edge. IOT applications are just data intensive applications, right gaming apps and so on. And all of these applications, they demand ultra low latency, right? And they're generating a lot of this data and all that data needs to be processed in real time. So if you have to send all of that data back to the cloud, and then you get the responses, that's a really bad experience. So that's what 5G is here to solve, right? I mean, it's like low latency, high bandwidth, high concurrency. Now that's all great. But then the coverage of 5G, it terminates at the edge of the mobile operator network. So you have all these massive influx of devices generating all that data. And all that stuff is transmitted under a very low latency conditions over a 5G network. But then if all that data from the mobile operator network has to be back hauled to the internet, to the backend servers, then you kind of defeat the whole purpose of ultra low latency applications. So that's where edge computing comes into play because edge computing is really an architecture, right? It's a distributed architecture. So now what mobile operators are doing is deploying what they refer to as NDCs, but it's effectively micro data centers at the edge of the mobile operator network. So you have all this data coming in over the 5G network. Great. They get analyzed, they get processed locally at the edge of the mobile operator network and you get real-time responses. And of course, as needed that data in aggregated or filter form goes back to the cloud. And so that's where the two relate. So in my view, I think edge computing architectures are important to deliver on the promise of 5G, but 5G has propelled the relevance or importance of edge computing as a solution, as a deployment architecture. So very interrelated. >> Very interrelated, very symbiotic. And of course the need for real time data real-time analytics in every industry became very prominent in the last year and a half. We had this expectation that we're going to be able to understand things in real time. And that's often a huge differentiator for businesses. We're out of time, but I want to ask you one more question Priya, and that is where can customers go to get started with Couchbase? >> Oh, absolutely. So Couchbase servers and gateway, you can deploy that, it's available as software. You can download it from our website. Couchbased lite is available for all your mobile applications. So it is available as a download, but you also have the classic package management systems through which you can download Couchbase Lite. And then of course, as I said, you can deploy this standalone, but you can also deploy it in the cloud. So we have marketplace offerings for both Couchbase server and sync gateway. So if you want to deploy it on AWS, as your Google, you can do that as well. >> Excellent. Priya, thank you so much for joining me on the program, talking about Couchbase the evolution, the changes, the opportunities with edge computing and mobile and how Couchbase is involved. I appreciate your time. >> Thank you very much. And thanks for having me. >> For Priya Rajgopal, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cubes coverage of Couchbase connect, online 2021.

>>Welcome back to the cubes coverage of Couchbase connect online, where the theme of the event is, or is modernized now. Yes, let's talk about that. And with me is Ravi, who's the senior vice president of engineering and the CTO at Couchbase Ravi. Welcome. Great to see you. >>Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here with you. >>I asked you what the new requirements are around modern applications. I've seen some, you know, some of your comments, you gotta be flexible, distributed, multimodal, mobile edge. It, that those are all the very cool sort of buzz words, smart applications. What does that all mean? And how do you put that into a product and make it real? >>Yeah, I think what has basically happened is that, uh, so far, uh, it's been a transition of sorts. And now we are come to a point where, uh, the tipping point and the tipping point has been, uh, uh, more because of COVID and there COVID has pushed us to a world where we are living, uh, in a sort of, uh, occasionally connected manner where our digital, uh, interactions, precede our physical interactions in one sense. So it's a world where we do a lot more stuff that's less than, uh, in a digital manner, as opposed to sort of making a more specific human contact that has really been the, uh, sort of accelerant to this modernized. Now, as a team in this process, what has happened is that so far all the databases and all the data infrastructure that we have built historically, are all very centralized. >>They're all sitting behind. Uh, they used to be in mainframes from where they came to like your own data centers, where we used to run hundreds of servers to where they're going now, which is the computing marvelous change to consumption-based computing, which is all cloud oriented now. And so, uh, but they are all centralized still. Uh, but where our engagement happens with the data is, uh, at the edge, uh, at your point of convenience at your point of consumption, not where the data is actually sitting. So this has led to, uh, you know, all those buzzwords, as you said, which is like, oh, well we need a distributed data infrastructure, where is the edge? Uh, but it just basically comes down to the fact that the data needs to be where you are engaging with it. And that means if you are doing it on your mobile phone, or if you are sitting, uh, doing something in your body or traveling, or whether you are in a subway, whether you're in a plane or a ship, wherever the data needs to come to you, uh, and be available as opposed to every time you going to the data, which is centrally sitting in some place. >>And that is the fundamental shift in terms of how the modern architecture needs to think, uh, when they, when it comes to digital transformation and, uh, transitioning their old applications to, uh, the, the modern infrastructure, because that's, what's going to define your customer experiences and your personalized experiences. Uh, otherwise people are basically waiting for that circle of death that we all know, uh, and blaming the networks and other pieces. The problem is actually, the data is not where you are engaging with. It has got to be fetched, you know, seven seas away. Um, and that is the problem that we are basically solving in this modern modernization of that data, data infrastructure. >>I love this conversation and I love the fact that there's a technical person that can kind of educate us on, on this, because date data by its very nature is distributed. It's always been distributed, but w w but distributed database has always been incredibly challenging, whether it was a global SIS Plex or an eventual consistency of getting recovery for a distributed architecture has been extremely difficult. You know, I hate that this is a terrible term, lots of ways to skin a cat, but, but you've been the visionary behind this notion of optionality, how to solve technical problems in different ways. So how do you solve that, that problem of, of, of, uh, of, uh, of a super rock solid database that can handle, you know, distributed data? Yes. >>So there are two issues that you're a little too over there with Forrest is the optionality piece of it, which is that same data that you have that requires different types of processing on it. It's almost like fractional distillation. It is, uh, like your crude flowing through the system. You start all over from petrol and you can end up with Vaseline and rayon on the other end, but the raw material, that's our data in one sense. So far, we never treated the data that way. That's part of the problem. It has always been very purpose built and cast first problem. And so you just basically have to recast it every time we want to look at the data. The first thing that we have done is make data that fluid. So when you're actually, uh, when you have the data, you can first look at it to perform. >>Let's say a simple operation that we call as a key value store operation. Given my ID, give him a password kind of scenarios, which is like, you know, there are customers of ours who have billions of user IDs in their management. So things get slower. How do you make it fast and easily available? Log-in should not take more than five minutes. Again, this is a, there's a class of problem that we solve that same data. Now, eventually, without you ever having to, uh, sort of do a casting it to a different database, you can now do a solid, uh, acquire. These are classic sequel queries, which is our next magic. We are a no SQL database, but we have a full functional sequel. The sequel has been the language that has talked to data for 40 odd years successfully. Every other database has come and try to implement their own QL query language, but they've all failed only sequel as which stood the test of time of 40 odd years. >>Why? Because there's a solid mathematics behind it. It's called a relational calculus. And what that helps you is, is, uh, basically, uh, look at the data and any common tutorial, uh, any, uh, any which way you look at the data. All it will come, uh, the data in a format that you can consume. That's the guarantee sort of gives you in one sense. And because of that, you can now do some really complex in the database signs, what we call us, predicate logic on top of that. And that gives you the ability to do the classic relational type queries, select star from where Canada stuff, because it's at an English level, it becomes easy to, so the same data, you didn't have to go move it to another database, do your, uh, sort of transformation of the data and all this stuff. Same day that you do this. >>Now, that's where the optionality comes in. Now you can do another piece of logic on top of this, which we call search. This is built on this concept of inverted index and TF IDF, the classic Google in a very simple terms, but Google tokenized search, you can do that in the same data without you ever having to move the data to a different format. And then on top of it, they can do what is known as a eventing or your own custom logic, which we all which we do on a, on programming language called Java script. And finally analytics and analytics is the ability to query the operational data in a different way. I'll talk budding. What was my sales of this widget year over year on December 1st week, that's a very complex question to ask, and it takes a lot of different types of processing. >>So these are different types of that's optionality with different types of processing on the same data without you having to go to five different systems without you having to recast the data in five different ways and find different application logic. So you put them in one place. Now is your second question. Now this has got to be distributed and made available in multiple cloud in your data center, all the way to the edge, which is the operational side of the, uh, the database management system. And that's where the distributed, uh, platform that we have built enables us to get it to where you need the data to be, you know, in a classic way, we call it CDN in the data as in like content delivery networks. So far do static, uh, uh, sort of moving of static content to the edges. Now we can actually dynamically move the data. Now imagine the richness of applications you can develop. >>The first part of the, the answer to my question, are you saying you could do this without skiing with a no schema on, right? And then you can apply those techniques. >>Uh, fantastic question. Yes. That's the brilliance of this database is that so far classically databases have always demanded that you first define a schema before you can write a single byte of data. Couchbase is one of the rare databases. I, for one don't know any other one, but there could be, let's give the benefit of doubt. It's a database which writes data first and then late binds to schema as we call it. It's a schema on read things. So because there is no schema, it is just a on document that is sitting inside. And Jason is the lingua franca of the web, as you very well know by now. So it just Jason that we manage, you can do key lookups of the Jason. You can do full credit capability, like a classic relational database. We even have cost-based optimizers and the other sophisticated pieces of technology behind it. >>You can do searching on it, using the, um, the full textual analysis pipeline. You can do ad hoc wedding on the analytic side, and you can write your own custom logic on it using our eventing capabilities. So that's, that's what it allows because we keep the data in the native form of Jason. It's not a data structure or a data schema imposed by a database. It is how the data is produced. And on top of it, we bring different types of logic, five different types of it's like the philosophy is bringing logic to data as opposed to moving data to logic. This is what we have been doing, uh, in the last 40 years because we developed various, uh, database systems and data processing systems of various points. In time in our history, we had key value stores. We had relational systems, we had search systems, we had analytical systems. >>We had queuing systems, all the systems, if you want to use any one of them, our answer has always been, just move the data to that system. Versus we are saying that do not move the data as we get bigger and bigger and data just moving this data is going to be a humongous problem. If you're going to be moving petabytes of data for this is not one to fly instead, bring the logic to the data. So you can now apply different types of logic to the data. I think that's what, in one sense, the optionality piece of this, >>As you know, there's plenty of schema-less data stores. They're just, they're called data swamps. I mean, that's what they, that's what they became, right? I mean, so this is some, some interesting magic that you're applying here. >>Yes. I mean, the one problem with the data swamps as you call them is that that was a little too open-ended because the data format itself could change. And then you do your, then everything became like a game data casting because it required you to have it in seven schema in one sense at the end of the day, for certain types of processing. So in that where a lot of gaps it's probably flooded, but it not really, uh, how do you say, um, keep to the promise that it actually meant to be? So that's why it was a swamp I need, because it was fundamentally not managing the data. The data was sitting in some file system, and then you are doing something, this is a classic database where the data is managed and you create indexes to manage it, and you create different types of indexes to manage it. You distribute the index, you distribute the data you have, um, like we were discussing, you have acid semantics on top of, and when you, when you put all these things together, uh, it's, it's, it's a tough proposition, but they have solved some really tough problems, which are good computer science stuff, computer science problems that we have to solve to bring this, to bring this, to bear, to bring this to the market. >>So you predicted the trend around multimodal and converged, uh, databases. Um, you kind of led Couchbase through that. I want to, I always ask this question because it's clearly a trend in the industry and it, it definitely makes sense from a simplification standpoint. And, and, and so that I don't have to keep switching databases or the flip side of that though, Ravi. And I wonder if you could give me your opinion on this is kind of the right tool for the right job. So I often say isn't that the Swiss army knife approach, we have a little teeny scissors and a knife. That's not that sharp. How do you respond to that? Uh, >>A great one. Um, my answer is always, I use another analogy to tackle that, but is that, have you ever accused a smartphone of being a Swiss army knife? No. No. Nobody does that because it's actually 40 functions in one is what a smartphone becomes. You never call your iPhone or your Android phone, a Swiss army knife, because here's the reason is that you can use that same device in the full capacity. That's what optionality is. It's not, I'm not, it's not like your good old one where there's a keyboard hiding half the screen, and you can do everything only through the keyboard without touching and stuff like that. That's not the whole devices available to you to do one type of processing when you want it. When you're done with that, it can do another completely different types of processing. Like as in a moment, it could be a Tom, Tom telling you all the directions, the next one, it's your PDA. >>Third one, it's a fantastic phone. Uh, four, it's a beautiful camera, which can do your f-stop management and give you a nice SLR quality picture. Right? So next moment is a video camera. People are shooting movies with this thing in Hollywood, these days for God's sake. So it gives you the full power of what you want to do when you want it. And now, if you just taught that iPhone is a great device or any smartphone is a great device, because you can do five things in one or 50 things in one, and at a certain level, they missed the point because what that device really enabled is not just these five things in one place. It becomes easy to consume and easy to operate. It actually started the app is the economy. That's the brilliance of bringing so many things in one place, because in the morning, you know, I get the alert saying that today you got to leave home at eight 15 for your nine o'clock meeting. >>And the next day it might actually say 8 45 is good enough because it knows where the phone is sitting. The geo position of it. It knows from my calendar where the meeting is actually happening. It can do a traffic calculation because it's got my map and all of the routes. And then it's gone there's notification system, which eventually pops up on my phone to say, Hey, you got to leave at this time. Now five different systems have to come together and they can because the data is in one place without that, you couldn't even do this simple function, uh, in a, in a sort of predictable manner in a, in a, in a manner that's useful to you. So I believe a database which gives you this optionality of doing multiple data processing on the same set of data allows you will allow you to build a class of products, which you are so far been able to struggling to build, because half the time you're running sideline to sideline, just, you know, um, integrating data from one system to the other. >>So I love the analogy with the smartphone. I w I want to, I want to continue it and double click on it. So I use this camera. I used to, you know, my kid had a game. I would bring the, the, the big camera, the 35 millimeter. So I don't use that anymore no way, but my wife does, she still uses the DSLR. So is, is there a similar analogy here? That those, and by the way, the camera, the camera shop in my town went out of business, you know? And so, so, but, but is there, is that a fair, where, in other words, those specialized databases, they say there still is a place for them, but they're getting >>Absolutely, absolutely great analogy and a great extension to the question. That's, that's the contrarian side of it in one sense is that, Hey, if everything can just be done in one, do you have a need for the other things? I mean, you gave a camera example where it is sort of, it's a, it's a slippery slope. Let me give you another one, which is actually less straight to the point better. I've been just because my, I, I listened to half of the music on the iPhone. Doesn't stop me from having my full digital receiver. And, you know, my Harman Kardon speakers at home because they haven't, they produce a kind of sounded immersive experience. This teeny little speaker has never in its lifetime intended to produce, right? It's the convenience. Yes. It's the convenience of convergence that I can put my earphones on and listen to all the great music. >>Yes, it's 90% there or 80% there. It depends on your audio file mess of your, uh, I mean, you don't experience the super specialized ones do not go away. You know, there are, there are places where, uh, the specialized use cases will demand a separate system to exist, but even there that has got to be very closed. Um, how do you say close, binding or late binding? I should be able to stream that song from my phone to that receiver so I can get it from those speakers. You can say that, oh, there's a digital divide between these two things done, and I can only play CDs on that one. That's not how it's going to work going forward. It's going to be, this is the connected world, right? As in, if I'm listening to the song in my car and then step off the car and walk into my living room, that's same songs should continue and play in my living room speakers. Then it's a world because it knows my preference and what I'm doing that all happened only because of this data flowing between all these systems. >>I love, I love that example too. When I was a kid, we used to go to Twitter, et cetera. And we'd to play around with, we take off the big four foot speakers. Those stores are out of business too. Absolutely. Um, now we just plug into Sonos. So that is the debate between relational and non-relational databases over Ravi. >>I believe so. Uh, because I think, uh, what had happened was the relational systems. Uh, I've been where the norm, they rule the roost, if you will, for the last 40 odd years, and then gain this no sequel movement, which was almost as though a rebellion from the relational world, we all inhibited, uh, uh, because we, it was very restrictive. It, it had the schema definition and the schema evolution as we call it, all those things, they were like, they required a committee, they required your DBA and your data architect. And you have to call them just to add one column and stuff like that. And the world had moved on. This was the world of blogs and tweets and, uh, you know, um, mashups and, um, uh, uh, a different generation of digital behavior, digital, native people now, um, who are operating in these and the, the applications, the, the consumer facing applications. >>We are living in this world. And yet the enterprise ones were still living in the, um, in the other, the other side of the divide. So all came this solution to say that we don't need SQL. Actually, the problem was never sequel. No sequel was, you know, best approximation, good marketing name, but from a technologist perspective, the problem was never the query language, no SQL was not the problem, the schema limitations, and the inability for these, the system to scale, the relational systems were built like, uh, airplanes, which is that if, uh, San Francisco Boston, there is a flight route, it's so popular that if you want to add 50 more seats to it, the only way you can do that is to go back to Boeing and ask them to get you a set in from 7 3 7 2 7 7 7, or whatever it is. And they'll stick you with a billion dollar bill on the alarm to somehow pay that by, you know, either flying more people or raising the rates or whatever you have to do. >>These are called vertically scaling systems. So relational systems are vertically scaling. They are expensive. Versus what we have done in this modern world, uh, is make the system how it is only scaling, which is more like the same thing. If it's a train that is going from San Francisco to Boston, you need 50 more people be my guests. I'll add one more coach to it, one more car to it. And the better part of the way we have done this year is that, and we have super specialized on that. This route actually requires three, three dining cars and only 10 sort of sleeper cars or whatever. Then just pick those and attach the next route. You can choose to have ID only one dining car. That's good enough. So the way you scale the plane is also can be customized based on the route along the route, more, more dining capabilities, shorter route, not an abandoned capability. >>You can attach the kind of coaches we call this multi-dimensional scaling. Not only do we scale horizontally, we can scale to different types of workloads by adding different types of coaches to it quite. So that's the beauty of this architecture. Now, why is that important? Is that where we land eventually is the ability to do operational and analytical in the same place. This is another thing which doesn't happen in the past, because you would say that I cannot run this analytical Barre because then my operational workload will suffer. Then my friend, then we'll slow down millions of customers that impacted that problem. We will solve the same data in which you can do analytical buddy, an operational query because they're separated by these cars, right? As in like we, we fence the, the, the resources, so that one doesn't impede the other. So you can, at the same time, have a microsecond 10 million ops per second, happening of a key value or equity. >>And then yet you can run this analytical body, which will take a couple of minutes to run one, not impeding the other. So that's in one sense, sort of the, part of the, um, uh, problems that we have solved here is that relational versus, uh, uh, the no SQL portion of it. These are the kinds of problems we have to solve. We solve those. And then we yet put back the same quality language on top. Y it's like Tesla in one sense, right underneath the surface is where all the stuff that had to be changed had to change, which is like the gasoline, uh, the internal combustion engine, uh, I think gas, uh, you says, these are the issues we really wanted to solve. Um, so solve that, change the engine out, you don't need to change the steering wheel or the gas pedal or the, you know, the battle shifters or whatever else you need, or that are for your shifters. >>Those need to remain in the same place. Otherwise people won't buy it. Otherwise it does not even look like a car to people. So, uh, even when you feed people the most advanced technology, it's got to be accessible to them in the manner that people can consume. Only in software, we forget this first design principle, and we go and say that, well, I got a car here, you got the blue harder to go fast and lean back for, for it to, you know, uh, to apply a break that's, that's how we seem to define, uh, design software. Instead, we should be designing them in a manner that it is easiest for our audience, which is developers to consume. And they've been using SQL for 40 years or 30 years. And so we give them the steering wheel on the, uh, and the gas bottle and the, um, and the gear shifter is by putting cul back on underneath the surface, we have completely solved, uh, the relational, uh, uh, limitations of schema, as well as scalability. >>So in, in, in that way, and by bringing back the classic acid capabilities, which is what relational systems, uh, we accounted on and being able to do that with the sequel programming language, we call it like multi-state SQL transaction. So to say, which is what a classic way all the enterprise software was built by putting that back. Now, I can say that that debate between relational and non-relational is over because this has truly extended the database to solve the problems that the relational systems had to grow up the salt in the modern times, but rather than get, um, sort of pedantic about whether it's, we have no SQL or sequel or new sequel, or, uh, you know, any of that sort of, uh, jargon, oriented debate, uh, this, these are the debates of computer science that they are actually, uh, and they were the solve and they have solved them with, uh, the latest release of $7, which we released a few months ago. >>Right, right. Last July, Ravi, we got to leave it there. I, I love the examples and the analogies. I can't wait to be face to face with you. I want to hang with you at the cocktail party because I've learned so much and really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming to the cube. >>Fantastic. Thanks for the time. And the Aboriginal Dan was, I mean, very insightful questions really appreciate it. Thank you. >>Okay. This is Dave Volante. We're covering Couchbase connect online, keep it right there for more great content on the cube.

>>Welcome back to Couchbase connect. My name is Dave Vellante and we're going to dig into a customer case study of sorts with two software engineers from a company called trendy all the largest e-commerce platform in Turkey. And with me are in MRA, tan Rivera, both software engineers at trendy. All welcome. Good to see you guys. Hey, before we get into the story, maybe you can tell us a little bit about trendy all. >>Let me answer that question first. Um, tri-annual uh, today is, um, 10 years old. Uh, actually, uh, it starts with them, um, e-commerce company, uh, Jen, uh, especially, uh, for clothing, uh, today, uh, it's serves several, uh, services, uh, mainly still e-commerce right. Um, we, uh, we do our business mainly on technology and we even have a say in technology, uh, technology is our main concern actually. Um, just like that actually now, >>So thank you for that. I mean, you started, I think, I think the company was founded in 2009, 2010. So you weren't, you were just, you know, kind of which we would consider the, sort of the modern era at the same time. When you look back 10 years, you know, major challenges, major advancements from a technology standpoint. So you at, at the time you had a, uh, a legacy database and you, you had a migraine, maybe you could describe the business conditions that drove you to think about actually making a change. What was the before, and then we can get into the after and what was driving that change? >>Um, maybe I could start it a bit. Well, uh, we have a recommendation domain and try new. It's like when you, when you look at a certain product, like for example, you look at a pencil, it it's commanding you, uh, any razor, uh, if you are going to buy a pink dress, it's going to recommend you a yellow dress. So if you're going to maybe buy pants, it will show you some t-shirts according to it. So, uh, since the recommendations, domain group larger, uh, we, we have struggled, uh, to keep it high scale, and it wasn't a relational DB at first, but that's even as product count increased and, uh, our right frequency increased day by day, uh, and our reef performance was affected very dramatically. Uh, I believe. Yeah. >>So you were using a traditional RDBMS, uh, and then, and, and the issue was you quite, you couldn't make the recommendations fast enough. And, you know, we always say what's real time. Real time is before you lose the customer. So you, you have to make those recommendations in time for the customer to act otherwise, you know, what do you do? Send an email after the fact, Hey, you bought this, nobody's going to pay attention to that. Right? You want to catch them in the moment. Um, and so, so what was it that, that led you to, to Couchbase and w and what was the experience of that? You know, whether it was onboarding, you know, the technology, you know, how difficult was it to get up and running to where you are today? >>Um, we were using ch Couchbase in, uh, in inter-annual, um, for several years, and we had experienced on that. Uh, and, uh, we actually, we need performance as described. So, uh, we convert our data structure to, from relational DB to, um, noise, Carol Levy, um, them actually on our recommendation, uh, platform, the main problem was, uh, invalidation process. You know, um, we are selling things and, um, in seconds they can be sold out and we, we shouldn't be recommend them anymore. And we are, we are keeping track of this by invalidation process and relational DB writing those data to our relationship Libby was, uh, was taking two, two minutes too much time. And, um, by changing this structure to, uh, pathways, we, we, we see that benefits, uh, and it takes so, so, uh, uh, short time, actually, >>I'm so sorry if, if I can just clarify w what was taking a long time, the, the updating the actual records, so that you could actually inform a customer that it was out of stock, or was it the coding that was too complicated? >>Well, it was, it was not because, um, there are millions of products intangible, and, uh, those issues are coming huge, actually. So we are keeping track of time if it's sold out or it's, it can be sellable, uh, when, when a product, uh, detail is seen by the customers, we are recommending some other products too, but those other products must be sellable too. So the main, the main problem was that, and, uh, we are writing them in our relational DB. There is a huge rights law actually. So it was not coding. It was the amount of data actually. >>Okay. And so it was the update intensity, um, within the database and the ability of the database to actually return accurate results quickly. So what was the after, like, uh, can you talk about sort of the, the business impact? What were the, the improvements that you've experienced? >>Yeah. Maybe I can ask her that, uh, like parties said that the main reason we switched is because that, uh, there are so many products coming near in trend, and many of them are being stopped being sold out and the updates to it, it was on a relational, the vendor rights, or too much that you couldn't, uh, dur customers that fast reply because the database was getting effected by the amount of high rights. Because when you think about it, there are millions of products coming, and there are millions of rights, uh, operations on the database. So those affecting the reach performance. So, uh, it, it could occur to you that when you click on a product, you would see maybe as took out product as a recommendation, or maybe a product that is not in the website anymore. So, uh, when we switched to, uh, Couchbase that, uh, we saw that, uh, it's using less resources, which, uh, using less posts, active, alive, and it's also, uh, giving responses faster. >>The main reason, uh, we were using relational DB at first was the invalidation process like five. He said, because it was, we had a consumer that was listening to messages, uh, the innovation messages, and then, uh, and then the writing them into database. But, uh, in the part, uh, it meant that actively writing to database that for every product document that you would need to update the document, but for, uh, for, for, uh, for relational DB, it would be vetoed easier to just make this product, uh, every available, false, or true. So that's why we were sticking with relationship with DB at first. And that's why we made it that first as a relational DB, but as time increased and our product count, and our sellers increased, we realized that, uh, we should find another solution to the invalidation process, and we should, uh, switch because, uh, I mean, it CA it has come to a point at one point that it would just maybe, uh, take a solid, so much time that, uh, we were scaling our consumers at nighttime to just not affect daily users anymore. >>Uh, so that's why that's the main reason we switched. And, uh, after switching, we had in, uh, like I said, the response time and high write throughput, and also one of the reasons is also because that the, uh, the application that was with the use of Couchbase because, uh, since strangled is growing larger than our main data centers. And, uh, like we can see that every day, sometimes we deploy our, uh, apps to yet another cluster. And we, that's why we sometimes need to have backups or different data centers, and Couchbase was providing very good relations, very good solutions to this, which is. Yeah. That's why we switched actually. So we asked >>Couchbase running it's if I understand it, it's running the recommendation engine. And do you still use a traditional RDBMS for the transaction system or is Couchbase doing both? >>Yeah, okay. Uh, we are, uh, actually inter-annual, we are in discovery a team, actually, we call it tribe and in discovery, tribe, uh, relational DB, I think, uh, now, uh, very small, uh, small, uh, teams are using it. Um, it's personally just very low actually. Uh, but, uh, other other tribes, for example, orders, checkout, and maybe, uh, uh, promotions, uh, something like other teams are still using RDBMS, but in discovery team, it's very important to serve customers very fast. We need to show them the products immediately. We need to personalize them. Uh, we sh we should, uh, show them, uh, related products in the meantime, in real time, actually. So in this current Stripe, we are, um, barely using it, uh, RDBMS systems, actually. >>How hard was it to migrate from the RDBMS? Because you hear a lot of stories about how difficult that is to do. You've got to freeze the code, you bringing up new code, you've got to synchronize the functionality. How did you manage that? >>Well, to be honest with you, just ask the data science team to just send the products. Uh, at the same time, we were like, we were keeping the legacy API open that the clients were still coming there. And, um, to be honest, there were lots of legs on that, too. So even if, uh, the, the newer products came a bit later, uh, it shouldn't be seen because it was always coming late. So, uh, we had, we made a new API that is connecting to Couchbase and we wanted the data science team to start feeding it, but we asked the clients to switch it by time. I mean, we were still supporting the old one, but, uh, when we, when we asked the clients to switch to the new API, we just closed the last one. So we didn't really migrate any data to be honest. Like we, we, it was from scratch. And since it's a, it's a recommendation domain, uh, we believe it's better to, uh, add data's from scratch because in our new domains, we are storing them in documents. They are always sending a new list to us. So that's how it gets updated all the time. So since it's not a user related data, it wasn't really like a migration process. >>Is this is part of the secret sauce that you're doing. Schema lists, no schema on, right to Couchbase. And is that correct? And how are you handling it? I'm like, how are you getting that awesome write performance? >>Well, the main reason we believe is that, uh, before, when it was relational DB, like for example, loan product to one product and a second product to first product, third product, first of all, that like you were duplicating the records so that when the product gets removed, uh, from, from a product recommendation, or maybe one of, if a product is getting invisible, for any reason, it should be removed, or maybe it could be a stockout that it means it's not that for every record, you are sending your records for invalidation, but in our new system, it means that this, uh, for this content, there are 24 contents let's say, and like four of them that's finished. It's not there. It's okay. You're just replacing the whole list so that you are not duplicating the records. I mean, this is not like first product first and first, the second, and first to third, and first changes you are replicating this, this change three times, like a delete, uh, product one from three, three product, one from two, and you are deprecating the deletion record, but now we are just replacing the list. So you are doing that all of the operation in 1, 1, 1, uh, Kafka queue message. If I should be able, if I was able to, uh, tell about it. So it's a bit hard to explain it in, uh, in speech, but, uh, we have a nice graphic that's showing how we are doing it now. >>That makes sense. Okay. Thank you for that. And so, as you think about, you're modernizing your application infrastructure, where are you at today? How do you see this modernization effort going forward >>Actually, um, today, uh, we are mainly looking for, um, cross cluster replication. Uh, all our products are, uh, uh, deployed, uh, different clusters and different geographical locations. Uh, we, we always using ch um, we try to always use, um, modern products and, uh, uh, try to avoid, uh, old relational databases, especially for our discovery. Right. And, uh, my mandala is modernizing it, uh, all, uh, engineer's keeping up to date with recent technologies and, uh, our customers are happier. They are not seeing some glitches, some, uh, rates, uh, or while they're using our products. >>Okay. So maybe I could double click on that. So, cause you mentioned the impact of customers and I'm interested in your organizational impact and what it means for you internally, but, but when you talk about cross cluster replication, is that to scale, uh, is that a performance impact? Is that for availability? What's the impact of that effort? That modernization effort? >>Uh, I believe it's, it's all, uh, main reason is availability. I believe. Uh, like we can't know when a cluster can go down, we can't be sure about it, uh, in a, in a system we can, but that we should be up and running all the time. And, uh, there should be some, uh, some backups that, uh, that can switch when a cluster goes down. But also the main reason, uh, well, one of the main reasons is to be able to scale because, uh, the, the clusters that we had wasn't enough, uh, considering our user base. So, uh, let's say you want to even extend your user base, but, uh, like the cluster is being a bottleneck to you because you can't get that much users, but, uh, when you do post cluster that you have backup and you have scalability and it's, uh, considering how new considering if the machines are newer, maybe faster response times. I don't know, uh, maybe, uh, network part would know that better, but, uh, yeah, but all of them, I will leave. >>Great guys. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story, uh, uh, MRA and Fati. Uh, appreciate you guys coming on the cube. >>Thanks a lot. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks. Thank you for, uh, hosting. >>Yeah, it's our pleasure. And thank you for watching. Couchbase connect online on the cube, keep it right there for more great content from the event.

>>Mhm Yeah, this is Dave valentin. I'd like to welcome you back to the cubes coverage of couch base connect online with the theme of this event is modernized now and one of the big announcements is Capella which of course as you all undoubtedly know is the brightest star in the constellation Auriga, which is latin for charioteer, yep, you can find that in the constellation of that constellation of the night sky in late february, early March in the northern hemisphere. So with that little tidbit, I'd like to welcome in scott Anderson to the cube, who is the senior vice president of product management and business operations. That couch base scott welcome. Good to see you. >>Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. >>That's our pleasure. So you've launched couch based cappella if I understand correctly, it's built on couch based server seven which he launched just a few months ago in the middle of the summer. Can you give us an overview of Capella? >>Yeah, absolutely. So couch based Capellas are fully managed databases. Service for enterprise applications. One of the goals of launching Capella and our databases is service offering that we just announced today is about increasing the accessibility of couch base so it's about making it easy for a developer or an enterprise to get up and running in just a few clicks in a couple of minutes Um and about making it more affordable and accessible through the development phase through the test phase, the production phase. So really it's about ease of use having the right offerings aligned to the phase of development that customers in and eventually into the production of their enterprise application leveraging capella and couch based Server seven. >>So let me ask you, I I went pretty deep with ravi on the, on the technical side and I want to understand what makes Capella different from some of the competitive offerings. Is it the sort of the fundamentals that I learned from Ravi about how you guys have have have really done an awesome focus on on on sequel but been able to maintain acid compliance deal with distributed architectural challenges and then bringing that over to database as a service. Is that the fundamental, what are some of the other differentiators? >>Yeah, that that is the fundamental, we have an amazing platform that Roddy and our core engineering team built and we've talked about that and I think Robbie mentioned that the ease of sequel and applying that to a documented oriented database, then combining some of those capabilities with the ease of use, the ability that you can get up and running, signing up for our free trial couple minutes later you've got a database endpoint that is fully managed by couch base. And so we're doing the monitoring, we're doing alerting, we have calls to action based off what events are occurring within the database environment, ensuring it's always available as well as doing kind of the mundane tasks of backup and recovery, uh scaling the environment, upgrades and so forth. So it's really about ease of use, making it um leveraging are incredibly robust, broad platform um and then making that in different consumable model for our customers and developers and getting started really easily. The other thing that we have done is really leverage the best practices over the last 10 or 11 years of some of the largest enterprises in the world using couch based for the mission critical applications. So we've codified those best practices and that's how we keep that service, high performance, always on highly available. And that's one of the core value propositions that were able to bring with Capella. It's really about management capability, global visibility of your clusters coupled with what we believe is the best no sequel database in the marketplace today. >>What about what about cost, total cost of ownership as you scale a lot of times when you scale out, you get dis economies of scale, it's kind of like, you know, you get that negative curve, uh what are you seeing? >>Yeah, we've done a third party benchmark studies which have proven out how we are able to literally scale the environment uh and continue on that curve as you add notes, you're getting that incremental performance that you would expect. The other thing that we do that's really unique within couch bases are multidimensional scaling and this allows you to place our services, things like data index, query, full text search indexes and analytics, you can co locate those on single nodes within a cluster or you can have dedicated notes for each one of those services. The reason that is important is you get work line isolation for those specific services within our cluster. The other thing that you can do is you can match the compute infrastructure to the needs of each one of those services. So some services like query are much more core, compute intensive and that allows you to have a specific instance type that is optimized for that, reducing your costs, indexes where you want very fast performance, you may want to have a higher amount of memory relative to the number of course. So that ability to mix and match the infrastructure with an existing cluster allows us to lower overall costs. That coupled with their blazing fast performance with our in memory architecture allows people to get incredible performance at scale. Um, what we've proven out in the study that I mentioned earlier is we have that linear scalability and you're able to do more for less at the end of the day, you're getting more operations per second per dollar if you want to use that as a metric. >>Got it. Thank you for that. What do customers need to think about when they want to get started with Capela? How difficult is it for people to jump in? >>It is incredibly simple. It's as simple as going to couch base dot com clicking on start your free trial, You're going to that free trial, you provide a minimal set of information for us and it's literally a few clicks and you're going to have a database endpoint within three minutes and that's really been a foundation of, of what we've been focused on over the last 6-9 months is removing any friction we can in the process because our goal is to give a tremendous user experience and get people up and running as quickly as possible. So we're really, really proud of that. And then from a paid offering perspective, we have a number of offerings which are really aligned to the needs of each customer, some individuals who want a larger cluster and they want to be able to pay for that. We've optimized service levels around that in terms of level support and the features that we think are appropriate for a dev cycle, a test cycle and then into production and lastly we will be announcing a number of promotional starter pack bundles, really trying to couple the overall service that we have with Capella with some of our expertise, so helping new users get up and running in terms of things like index definitions, what's the best way to do document design and schema within within couch base. Our end goal is to match these services and bundles with the life cycle of application development. So in my development phase what's the offering for me as I move for production readiness, what services capabilities I need and then production and the ongoing if I expand my use. So we've been really focused on, how do we get people up up and running as quickly as possible and how do we get them to production as quickly as possible at the lowest total cost? >>That's nice. That's a nice accelerant for customers. Um, so as you heard upfront, I did a little research about the name Capella. How did you choose it and why? >>Well, one thing I learned early in my career is naming is not a strong suit of mine. I leave that to John or our chief marketing officer in the overall team. Um, we all have opinions, but I trust John and we went through, I think it was over 60 names, seven rounds of debate to come up with capella, but we want to name of strength. We like the alliteration couch, basic capella together. Um, one of the little facts may have tipped it over is I believe in latin, it means little goats. So we kind of played from the barriers. Always think to jerry rice goat, greatest of all time. So that was a nice play on that also. Um, but I leave it to them and really happy with the overall name, love the liberation, Love some of the hidden meanings within that. Um, and we're really, really excited about getting going. So you wouldn't want me to pick the name. Um, I get a vote. Um, but I would say my overall influence is a little bit lower than where john's is and matt cain, who I know you spoke with previously. >>I love it, jerry rice definitely is a little go because I'm from New England. So of course tom we think tom brady is the big goat. I >>know we've, I grew up in that joe Montana era, so maybe you can take that off line after this interview. We can have our own debate, but I guess super bowl trophies or the ultimate measure at the end of the day. >>Now I've got a little stat for you. So, so Capella is also one of the 88 modern constellations as adopted by the International Astronomical Union. I. E. Not one of the ancient constellations. Pretty clever. Right. >>Exactly. >>Scott is great to have you on the cube. Thanks so much. Really, >>thank you so much. >>All right. And thank you for watching. Thank you for watching. Our pleasure. Thank you much of the cubes coverage of couch based connect 2021. Keep it right there for more great content. Mm mhm

(upbeat music playing) >> Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Couchbase ConnectONLINE Mary Roth, VP of Engineering Operations with Couchbase is here for Couchbase ConnectONLINE. Mary. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on remotely for this segment. >> Thank you very much. It's great to be here. >> Love the fire in the background, a little fireside chat here, kind of happening, but I want to get into it because, Engineering and Operations with the pandemic has really kind of shown that, engineers and developers have been good, working remotely for a while, but for the most part it's impacted companies in general, across the organizations. How did the Couchbase engineering team adapt to the remote work? >> Great question. And I actually think the Couchbase team responded very well to this new model of working imposed by the pandemic. And I have a unique perspective on the Couchbase journey. I joined in February, 2020 after 20 plus years at IBM, which had embraced a hybrid, in-office remote work model many years earlier. So in my IBM career, I live four minutes away from my research lab in Almaden Valley, but IBM is a global company with headquarters on the East Coast, and so throughout my career, I often found myself on phone calls with people around the globe at 5:00 AM in the morning, I quickly learned and quickly adapted to a hybrid model. I'd go into the office to collaborate and have in-person meetings when needed. But if I was on the phone at 5:00 AM in the morning, I didn't feel the need to get up at 4:30 AM to go in. I just worked from home and I discovered I could be more productive there, doing think time work, and I really only needed the in-person time for collaboration. This hybrid model allowed me to have a great career at IBM and raise my two daughters at the same time. So when I joined Couchbase, I joined a company that was all about being in-person and instead of a four minute commute, it was going to be an hour or more commute for me each way. This was going to be a really big transition for me, but I was excited enough by Couchbase and what it offered, that I decided to give it a try. Well, that was February, 2020. I showed up early in the morning on March 10th, 2020 for an early morning meeting in-person only to learn that I was one of the only few people that didn't get the memo. We were switching to a remote working model. And so over the last year, I have had the ability to watch Couchbase and other companies pivot to make this remote working model possible and not only possible, but effective. And I'm really happy to see the results. A remote work model does have its challenges, that's for sure, but it also has its benefits, better work-life balance and more time to interact with family members during the day and more quiet time just to think. We just did a retrospective on a major product release, Couchbase server 7.0, that we did over the past 18 months. And one of the major insights by the leadership team is that working from home actually made people more effective. I don't think a full remote model is the right approach going forward, but a hybrid model that IBM adopted many years ago and that I was able to participate in for most of my career, I believe is a healthier and more productive approach. >> Well, great story. I love the come back and now you take leverage of all the best practices from the IBM days, but how did they, your team and the Couchbase engineering team react? And were there any best practices or key learnings that you guys pulled out of that? >> The initial reaction was not good. I mean, as I mentioned, it was a culture based on in-person, people had to be in in-person meetings. So it took a while to get used to it, but there was a forcing function, right? We had to work remotely. That was the only option. And so people made it work. I think the advancement of virtual meeting technology really helps a lot. Over earlier days in my career where I had just bad phone connections, that was very difficult. But with the virtual meetings that you have, where you can actually see people and interact, I think is really quite helpful. And probably the key. >> What's the DNA of the company there? I mean, every company's got the DNA, Intel's Moore's Law, and what's the engineering culture at Couchbase like, if you could describe it. >> The engineering culture at Couchbase is very familiar to me. We are at our heart, a database company, and I grew up in the database world, which has a very unique culture based on two values, merit and mentorship. And we also focus on something that I like to call growing the next generation. Now database technology started in the late sixties, early seventies, with a few key players and institutions. These key players were extremely bright and they tackled and solved really hard problems with elegant solutions, long before anybody knew they were going to be necessary. Now, those original key players, people like Jim Gray, Bruce Lindsay, Don Chamberlin, Pat Selinger, David Dewitt, Michael Stonebraker. They just love solving hard problems. And they wanted to share that elegance with a new generation. And so they really focused on growing the next generation of leaders, which became the Mike Carey's and the Mohan's and the Lagerhaus's of the world. And that culture grew over multiple generations with the previous generation cultivating, challenging, and advocating for the next, I was really lucky to grow up in that culture. And I've advanced my career as a result, as being part of it. The reason I joined Couchbase is because I see that culture alive and well here. Our two fundamental values on the engineering side, are merit and mentorship. >> One of the things I want to get your thoughts on, on the database questions. I remember, back in the old glory days, you mentioned some of those luminaries, you know, there wasn't many database geeks out there, there was kind of a small community, now, as databases are everywhere. So you see, there's no one database that has rule in the world, but you starting to see a pattern of database, kinds of things are emerging, more databases than ever before, they are on the internet, they are on the cloud, there are none the edge. It's essentially, we're living in a large distributed computing environment. So now it's cool to be in databases because they're everywhere. (laughing) So, I mean, this is kind of where we are at. What's your reaction to that? >> You're absolutely right. There used to be a few small vendors and a few key technologies and it's grown over the years, but the fundamental problems are the same, data integrity, performance and scalability in the face of distributed systems. Those were all the hard problems that those key leaders solved back in the sixties and seventies. They're not new problems. They're still there. And they did a lot of the fundamental work that you can apply and reapply in different scenarios and situations. >> That's pretty exciting. I love that. I love the different architectures that are emerging and allows for more creativity for application developers. And this becomes like the key thing we're seeing right now, driving the business and a big conversation here at the, at the event is the powering of these modern applications that need low latency. There's no more, not many spinning disks anymore. It's all in RAM, all these kinds of different memory, you got centralization, you got all kinds of new constructs. How do you make sense of it all? How do you talk to customers? What's the main core thing happening right now? If you had to describe it. >> Yeah, it depends on the type of customer you're talking to. We have focused primarily on the enterprise market and in that market, there are really fundamental issues. Information for these enterprises is key. It's their core asset that they have and they understand very well that they need to protect it and make it available more quickly. I started as a DBA at Morgan Stanley, back, right out of college. And at the time I think it was, it probably still is, but at the time it was the best run IT shop that I'd ever seen in my life. The fundamental problems that we had to solve to get information from one stock exchange to another, to get it to the SEC are the same problems that we're solving today. Back then we were working on mainframes and over high-speed Datacom links. Today, it's the same kind of problem. It's just the underlying infrastructure has changed. >> Yeah, the key, there has been a big supporter of women in tech. We've done thousands of interviews and why I got you. I want to ask you if you don't mind, career advice that you give women who are starting out in the field of engineering, computer science. What do you wish you knew when you started your career? And if you could be that person now, what would you say? >> Yeah, well, a lot of things I wish I knew then that I know now, but I think there are two key aspects to a successful career in engineering. I actually got started as a math major and the reason I became a math major is a little convoluted. As a girl, I was told we were bad at math. And so for some reason I decided that I had to major in it. That's actually how I got my start, but I've had a great career. And I think there are really two key aspects. First, is that it is a discipline in which respect is gained through merit. As I had mentioned earlier, engineers are notoriously detail-oriented and most are, perfectionists. They love elegant, well thought-out solutions and give respect when they see one. So understanding this can be a very important advantage if you're always prepared and you always bring your A-game to every debate, every presentation, every conversation, you have build up respect among your team, simply through merit. While that may mean that you need to be prepared to defend every point early on, say, in your graduate career or when you're starting, over time others will learn to trust your judgment and begin to intuitively follow your lead just by reputation. The reverse is also true. If you don't bring your A-game and you don't come prepared to debate, you will quickly lose respect. And that's particularly true if you're a woman. So if you don't know your stuff, don't engage in the debate until you do. >> That's awesome advice. >> That's... >> All right, continue. >> Thank you. So my second piece of advice that I wish I could give my younger self is to understand the roles of leaders and influencers in your career and the importance of choosing and purposely working with each. I like to break it down into three types of influencers, managers, mentors, and advocates. So that first group are the people in your management chain. It's your first line manager, your director, your VP, et cetera. Their role in your career is to help you measure short-term success. And particularly with how that success aligns with their goals and the company's goals. But it's important to understand that they are not your mentors and they may not have a direct interest in your long-term career success. I like to think of them as, say, you're sixth grade math teacher. You know, you getting an A in the class and advancing to seventh grade. They own you for that. But whether you get that basketball scholarship to college or getting to Harvard or become a CEO, they have very little influence over that. So a mentor is someone who does have a shared interest in your long-term success, maybe by your relationship with him or her, or because by helping you shape your career and achieve your own success, you help advance their goals. Whether it be the company success or helping more women achieve leadership positions or getting more kids into college on a basketball scholarship, whatever it is, they have some long-term goal that aligns with helping you with your career. And they give great advice. But that mentor is not enough because they're often outside the sphere of influence in your current position. And while they can offer great advice and coaching, they may not be able to help you directly advance. That's the role of the third type of influencer. Somebody that I call an advocate. An advocate is someone that's in a position to directly influence your advancement and champion you and your capabilities to others. They are in influential positions and others place great value in their opinions. Advocates stay with you throughout your career, and they'll continue to support you and promote you wherever you are and wherever they are, whether that's the same organization or not. They're the ones who, when a leadership position opens up will say, I think Mary's the right person to take on that challenge, or we need to move in a new direction, I think Mary's the right person to lead that effort. Now advocates are the most important people to identify early on and often in your career. And they're often the most overlooked. People early on often pay too much attention and rely on their management chain for advancement. Managers change on a dime, but mentors and advocates are there for you for the long haul. And that's one of the unique things about the database culture. Those set of advocates were just there already because they had focused on building the next generation. So I consider, you know, Mike Carey as my father and Mike Stonebraker as my grandfather, and Jim Gray as my great-grandfather and they're always there to advocate for me. >> That's like a schema and a database. You got to have it all right there, kind of teed up. Beautiful. (laughing) Great advice. >> Exactly. >> Thank you for that. That was really a masterclass. And that's going to be great advice for folks, really trying to figure out how to play the cards they have and the situation, and to double down or move and find other opportunities. So great stuff there. I do have to ask you Mary, thanks for coming on the technical side and the product side. Couchbase Capella was launched in conjunction with the event. What is the bottom line for that as, as an Operations and Engineering, built the products and rolled it out. What's the main top line message for about that product? >> Yeah. Well, we're very excited about the release of Capella and what it brings to the table is that it's a fully managed and automated database cloud offering so that customers can focus on development and building and improving their applications and reducing the time to market without having to worry about the hard problems underneath, and the operational database management efforts that come with it. As I mentioned earlier, I started my career as a DBA and it was one of the most sought after and highly paid positions in IT because operating a database required so much work. So with Capella, what we're seeing is, taking that job away from me. I'm not going to be able to apply for a DBA tomorrow. >> That's great stuff. Well, great. Thanks for coming. I really appreciate it. Congratulations on the company and the public offering this past summer in July and thanks for that great commentary and insight on theCUBE here. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Okay. Mary Roth, VP of Engineering Operations at Couchbase part of Couchbase ConnectONLINE. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music playing)

>> I've got Madhav Mekala here with me, commerce architect at PepsiCo Madhav welcome to the program. >> Thank you Lisa. >> So we're going to be talking about the solution that you implemented that helped with the global supply chain. So let's talk first about your role, commerce architect. Help me understand that a little bit better. >> So Frito-Lay PepsiCo is pretty big. It's a conglomerate of multiple product lines. So I worked for Frito-Lay, which is basically all the salty snacks and then we have a Quaker products as well in our portfolio. So I oversee all the architecture for all the commercial IoT solutions in the FNA portfolio. >> Got it all the commercial lines. So we all know the last 18 months major challenges with the global supply chain component shortages, we've seen a huge increase in the cost of raw materials, limited labor, but you guys actually started to tackle this challenge before the pandemic happened. So talk to me about the catalyst that PepsiCo, what you saw to modernize field service and supply chain application. >> Yeah, so we have a pretty old system that our field force, our frontline users are using. So we have a world-class supply chain system where we go into the stores and place orders and deliver products throughout the U.S. And then we penetrate, I think, more than 95% of the households with our products. So we need to have a robust supply chain as well as a good frontline sales application, to be able to manage the orders, and be able to deliver the products, right? So the system that we have is almost 20 year old system running on a very outdated technology. We've been trying to replace that for a while now. And finally, we started this early last year to completely replace the solution with a brand new IPhone based app. And then that gives our frontline the ability to go place orders, do deliveries to retail execution in the store like check-in check-out, bill displays. There are so much functionality that our RSRs or frontline users do in the stores and this app enables them to do much more efficiently. >> And we're going to break into that, but you mentioned you had a 20 year old technology. Talk to me about some of the challenges that that likely presented to those frontline workers. >> Yeah. I mean, there are multiple challenges for one, we cannot enable new business models. So business wants to come up with new ideas for, to be able to implement in the field, but with our system being so old, it's so hard to implement anything on that one. And then even the physical device is not scaling. We had a lot of memory issues, so it's time for it to kind of retire, but also the technology we use the 3G technology is retiring pretty soon at the next year. So we were definitely need to move to a new solution. And this is one of the must things we have to do right away. So that's where we started the project and we are in pilot phase right now. >> What would have been some of those negative consequences, had you not undertaken the effort? I imagine from a competitive perspective, knowing how much competition is out there, what would some of those challenges have been if this had persisted? >> Yeah, so one is the stability of the application, right? So the frontline users have to spend more time because the app is not stable, the current one. So that reduces the efficiency of our Salesforce. Right? And then on the other hand, we also not able to put new features or new business models enable new business models on top of the existing ones. So we are losing out on some of them because of our outdated system. So that's one thing we want to solve with the new one. >> So this is really critical to really evolve PepsiCo's business at, at its baseline, right? >> That's true. Yeah. It is very critical application that we are building and this will enable us to do a lot more things in future. And we can come up with new ideas, including like virtual reality or connecting to multiple systems. There are so many new ideas that we want to enable once we have this in place. >> Awesome. Talk to me about why Couchbase and then tell us more about, you started to talk a little bit about the solution, but let's go ahead and dig in and unpack the actual solution that you implemented. >> Yeah. So this is, eh, we call it an ERP and a mobile device because it has so much functionality as a company Frito-Lay, we have been over a hundred years in this business, right? We have so many optimized process that we have that kind of led to some digility in the system because we want to do in a particular way, because that's the best way to do it as part of our business process. So what we're trying to do here is take that business process and also provide an app that will enhance it and then connect to more, more systems. So that's what we are trying to do here. And then on top of that one, we will replace all the existing peripherals that we use with the new technology, like Bluetooth and all so that, they are much more faster and they slot more productive for our frontline force. >> Sounds like a lot of sales folks are going to to be a lot more productive. Talk to me about where Couchbase is as an integral component to this new system. >> Yeah. So one of the key requirements for this app is offline mode. What that means is one of our other salesforce who go from our system from our DC to other stores, should be able to run the whole day without any major disruption, even if they're not connected, let's say because when they go into big stores, typically there's no connection there all metal boxes. So the cellular reception is not there, but most of our work that we do from our frontline is within the store. So it has to be a full offline where we have to have all the data within the device and we should be able to place orders, create inventory that records or adjust inventory, and then create invoices. All the majority of the things that we do are in the store and they should be able to do without the connection. So that's where we explored multiple options and kind of zeroed in on Couchbase where we bring all the data into Couchbase database on the device and then sync it when there is connection, but there's no connection, we still have all the data on the device and we can go do all of our duties in the stores without any issues, even if it is not connected. >> So the sales folks can be in the stores with their mobile device, doing all the transactions that they need to do with the stores, regardless of if there's connectivity. Talk to me about what happens when they get back to connectivity in that and the Couchbase database sync. >> Yeah. And the other big thing we want is instant connect. I mean, when there's connectivity, we want instant sync with the backend, right? If there's new data that comes, we need that in the device. At the same time, if I place an order, I want to send it back immediately to our backend systems so that our fulfillment starts for those. So that's very critical when we have a lot of cutoff times for our orders. So we need order as soon as we've placed to be going into the backend systems. So what happens when it gets connected, as soon as the sales folks come out of the store or when, within the story they could connectivity the Couchbased technology that we are using using the sync gateway immediately syncs the data back and forth if there's any new data that's available. So that is key for us in this particular app. >> So our transactions happening in real time or near real time. >> Yeah. So the data flow happens in real time when there's connectivity, but when it is not connected still, it doesn't have any issue with the actual transactions with the RSR that can go complete anything that. >> Got it. Okay. So there's no impediment there. In fact, it's a productivity enhancer. It sounds like for all of those sales folks out on the frontline. Tell us so millions of documents go through the system, tens of billions of dollars. Talk to me about the volume of data and the actual monetary value that's traversing the system. >> Yeah. It's huge, again, this is kind of the lifeline of the company. The sales are always the life of any company, right? So most of the sales for Frito-Lay goes through our system and we're talking anywhere between hundreds of thousands of documents that flow through back and forth between the Couch between the device and the server. So there's a lot of master data that comes like products price from customers, all that information that comes from the backend to the device and all the orders inventory and everything that gets created on the device gets flown sync back to the server. So yeah, I mean, it's, it's a very complex system. And also from the volume perspective, it's huge. So we had to build a massive infrastructure on the backend to be able to handle all this. One of the key feature is again, we have this massive data that we need to sync to the devices, but each device should only get the portion of the data that they want because a particular Salesforce only goes to a small set of 20 stores, let's say. So the data that we sync to that device is only for those 20 stores. So that's the key here. So Couchbase allows us to do that. The Couchbase sync, where we can subset the data into different portions and only send the data that is relevant for a particular device. >> So then from a, from a latency perspective, it must be pretty low latency, pretty fast to be able to get this data back to the device and to the sales person that is in the middle of a transaction. >> Yes. I mean, it's pretty, the sink is very fast. The Couchbase sync, especially user's web sockets. And we do continuous replicators where if I complete an order, the next instant it's on the server. So it's, it's we observed the speeds improved a lot. So the technology that we are using uses syncs for a long, long time compared to Couchbase, and that's another productivity gain for our Salesforce. >> What were some of the differentials? You mentioned some of the technology requirements that PepsiCo had in rearchitecting, the infrastructure, but what were some of the key technology differentiators that really made Couchbase stand out as the obvious choice? >> Yeah, so we, when we started this project, we all know the sink is the key for this whole project, because we thought the data going back and forth, we cannot really build a robust offline app. So we looked at multiple options, other providers that are doing the sync. And we also looked at building our own sink, in-house using APIs, but then we did lots of performance testing across all the options that we had at that time. And then Couchbase came above all of them pretty handily. So obviously we can coach base takes care of the sync, and then we can focus on our business process. So we can go build all the business process and not worry about how to build the syncing engine. And then that is itself a big effort. So that's what Couchbase provided us saying a instant sync engine. And then we were able to focus more on our, the app applicants, the frontline application, the sensor application. >> And those business processes. Let's talk about some of the business outcomes. We've mentioned a few already in our conversation, increased in productivity, the sales forces increased in that as well. But I imagine there's a lot of benefits for the end-user customer in terms of being able to get the transactions completed faster. What are some of those positive business outcomes that PepsiCo is seeing as a result of implementing Couchbase? >> Yeah. So you hit on a couple of them that the sync times are definitely a big factor where that will directly give more time for the sales folks to go either go to most stores, or even if they go to the existing stores, they can do more, spend more time with the customer merchandising and making sure everything is correct. So that's one, also the new app users connect with a lot of new peripherals that are not available on the previous platform. Also, the, our folks are very enthusiastic about using a new app, right? So it's like coming into the 21st century for them using such an old lab for a long time. So a lot of things that they see, they can see the images of the bags while ordering, which was not a feature earlier. Some of them are small, but they make a huge impact on our users. So, yeah, I mean, and then this is just a start that we are doing. And then once we are able to completely implement this one, we have a lot more going into, in future. I was just talking about, we can do virtual reality or show them how to sell using virtual reality. We can show a display to a store manager saying, 'Hey, I want to put a display here. And this is how it looks,' they can show it on the phone directly, than just explaining and showing some paper images. So there's a lot of possibilities. >> A lot of improvements to the customer experience. It sounds like, it sounds like adoption is quite high for your folks who are used to 20 year old technology, probably being very excited that they have a modern app. But talk to me a little bit about the appetite of the organization to continue modernizing the application infrastructure and presuming going from older technology to that 21st century, like you talked about. >> Yeah. So in other parts, we are already modernized some of these. So we have been on the journey for the last four, five years building multiple digital platforms. So one of the examples I can give is when COVID hit, there's a lot of disruption for everybody, for the consumers, so they are not able to find the products in the stores, a lot people are afraid to go to the stores to even buy products. So we reacted very quickly and opened a consumer website called snacks.com, which Pepsi never sold it to consumer directly. We always go through our stores, but the first time we open the consumer channel and Couchbase powered some of it for the backend purpose. So this is not a mobile app, it's just a desktop app, but we already have been on the digital transmission journey, even before we quickly turn into COVID for the snacks.com. And similarly, we are, doing this for our retail execution, portion of it using this project. So, and then we'll be continuing to do this going forward to enable a lot of functionality for I mean, for all of our sales, as well as supply chain and other systems, so that we can be more efficient. We can be more elastic saying if there is more demand, our backend should be able to handle all that, which was not the case before. So now we've built a state of the art backend system on cloud. So there's a lot of transmission, digital transmission going on within PepsiCo. And I'm really proud to be part of this project so that we took this to the next level. And then this is just a start. We can do a lot more. >> Right? This is just the beginning. That sounds like a great transformation for a historied company that we all, everybody knows PepsiCo and all of its products. But it sounds like when the pandemic hit, you had the infrastructure in place to be able to pivot quickly to launch that direct to consumer, which of course consumers, patience has been quite thin in the last year and a half. Talk to me a little bit about the impact to the overall organization as a result of being able to, to get more direct with those consumers. >> Yeah. So till now, again, we are the business model is we sell to the stores and then go customer. So we'd never get a direct sense of what consumer liking is. I mean, we get through some surveys and stuff, but we don't have a direct channel to the consumer, which this particular project enabled us snacks.com. So we know the consumer behavior, how they buying patterns, browsing patterns, which ones they like and including with geography and all so we learned a lot from the consumer behavior point of view for the project. And then we kept on enhancing. So one new thing we introduced was called Multipack where the consumers can come and pick, make their own Multipacks basically. They can say, okay, I need these many of this particular product, this particular product and make their Multipack and we ship them the customized Multipack. And it was, such a huge hit that we are not able to even fulfill them so much demand was there for that one, so we had to revamp and then get back. And now it's a huge thing on all the snacks.com platform. So all of this is possible because we had a digital platform underneath that supports this kind of innovation. So the new business models are just coming to life in within weeks or even few months and that's what we will be trying to do with the new platform that we're building for this app as well, where we'll bring in lot of new business models on top of we have already. >> Excellent, a lot of transformation it sounds like at PepsiCo in the last couple of years, I love the customization, that personalization route that you're going and I think that's going to be a huge hit for consumers. And as you said, there's a lot of demand , Madhav thank you for joining me today, talking about how you are modernizing the field service and supply chain application, the impact it's making for end users for your customers and for the sales folks. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you so much Lisa. >> From McCalla. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching this Cube conversation.

>>And welcome to the cubes coverage of Couchbase connect online, Mary Roth, VP of engineering operations with couch basis here for Couchbase connect online. Mary. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on remotely for this segment. >>Thank you very much. It's great to be here. >>Love the fire in the background, a little fireside chat here, kind of happening, but I want to get into shooting, you know, engineering and operations with the pandemic has really kind of shown that, you know, engineers and developers have been good working remotely for a while, but for the most part it's impacted companies in general, across the organizations. How did the Couchbase engineering team adapt to the remote work? >>Uh, great question. Um, and I actually think the Couchbase team responded very well to this new model of working imposed by the pandemic. And I have a unique perspective on the couch space journey. I joined in February, 2020 after 20 plus years at IBM, which had embraced a hybrid in-office rewrote remote work model many years earlier. So in my IBM career, I live four minutes away from my research lab in almond and valley, but IBM is a global company with headquarters on the east coast and SU. So throughout my career, I often found myself on phone calls with people around the globe at 5:00 AM in the morning, I quickly learned and quickly adopted to a hybrid model. I'd go into the office to collaborate and have in-person meetings when needed. But if I was on the phone at >> 5: 00 AM in the morning, um, I didn't feel the need to get up at 4:30 AM to go in. >>I just worked from home and I discovered I could be more productive. They're doing think time work. And I really only needed the in-person time for collaboration. These hybrid model allowed me to have a great career at IBM and raise my two daughters at the same time. So when I joined Couchbase I joined a company that was all about being in-person and instead of a four minute commute, it was going to be an hour or more commute for me each way. This was going to be a really big transition for me, but I was excited enough by couch facing what it offered that I decided to give it a try. Well, that was February, 2020. I showed up early in the morning on March 10th, 2020 for an early morning meeting in person only to learn that I was one of the only few people that didn't get the memo. >>We were switching to a remote remote working model. And so over the last year, I have had the ability to watch cow's face and other companies pivot to make this remote working model possible and not only possible, but effective. And I'm really happy to see the results. Our remote work model does have its challenges that's for sure, but it also has its benefits better work-life balance and more time to interact with family members during the day and more quiet time, just to think we just did a retrospective on a major product release Couchbase server 7.0 that we did over the past 18 months. And one of the major insights by the leadership team is that working from home actually made people more effective. I don't think a full remote model is the right approach going forward, but a hybrid model that IBM adopted many years ago and that I was able to participate in for most of my career, I believe is a healthier and more productive approach. >>Well, great story. I love the, um, the, uh, you come back and now you take leverage all the best practices from the IBM days, but how did the, your team and the Couchbase engineering team react and were there any best practices or key learnings that you guys pulled out of that, >>Uh, the, the initial reaction was not good. I mean, as I mentioned, it was a culture based on in-person people had to be in person in person meetings. So it took a while to get used to it, but the, there was a forcing function, right? We had to work remotely. That was the only option. And so people made it work. I think the advancement of virtual meeting technology really, really helps a lot over earlier days in my career where I had just bad phone connections, that was very difficult. But with the virtual meetings that you have, where you can actually see people and interact, I think is really quite helpful. >>What's the DNA of the culture. What's the DNA. Every company's got the DNA entails Moore's law. Um, and at what's the engineering culture at Couchbase like if you could describe it. >>Uh, the engineering culture at Couchbase is very familiar to me. We are at our heart, a database company, and I grew up in the database world, which has a very unique culture based on two values, merit and mentorship. And we also focus on something that I like to call growing. The next generation. Now database technology started in the late sixties, early seventies with a few key players and institutions. These key players were extremely bright and they tackle it and solve really hard problems with elegant solutions long before anybody knew they were going to be necessary. Now, those original key players, people like Jim gray, Bruce Lindsey, Don Chamberlin, pat Salinger, David Dewitt, Michael Stonebraker. They just love solving hard problems. And they wanted to share that elegance with a new generation. And so they really focused on growing the next generation of leaders, which became the Mike caries and the Mohans and the lower houses of the world. And that culture grew over multiple generations with the previous generation cultivating, challenging and advocating for the next, I was really lucky to grow up in that culture. And I've advanced my career as a result, as being part of it. The reason I joined Couchbase is because I see that culture alive and well, here are two fundamental values on the engineering side, our merit and mentorship. >>One of the things I want to get your thoughts on, on the database questions. I remember, you know, back in the old glory days, you mentioned some of those luminaries, you know, there wasn't many database geeks out there, Zuri kind of small community now is databases are everywhere. So you see there's no one database that's ruling the world, but you starting to see a pattern of database kinds of things, and more emerging, more databases than ever before. They're on the internet, they're on the cloud. There are none the edge it's essentially we're living in a large distributed computing environment. So now it's cool to be in databases cause they're everywhere. So, I mean, this is kind of where we're at. What's your reaction to that? >>Uh, you're absolutely right there. There used to be a, a few small vendors and a few key technologies and it's grown over the years, but the fundamental problems are the same data, integrity, performance and scalability. And in the face of district distributed systems, those were all the hard problems that those key leaders solve back in the sixties and seventies. They're not, they're not new problems. They're still there. And they did a lot of the fundamental work that you can apply and reapply in different scenarios and situations. >>It's pretty exciting. I love that. I love the different architectures that are emerging and allows for more creativity for application developers. And this becomes like the key thing we're seeing right now, driving the business and a big conversation here at the, at the event is the powering, these modern applications that need low latency. There's no more, not many spinning disks anymore. It's all in Ram, all these kinds of different memory, you got decentralization and all kinds of new constructs. How do you make sense of it all? How do you talk to customers? What's the, what's the, what's the main core thing happening right now? If you had to describe it? >>Yeah, it depends on the type of customer you're talking to. Um, we have focused primarily on the enterprise market and in that market, there are really fundamental issues. Information for, for these enterprises is key. It's their core asset that they have and they understand very well that they need to protect it and make it available more quickly. I started as a DBA at Morgan Stanley back, um, right out of college. And at the time I think it was, it probably still is, but at the time it was the best run it shop that I'd ever seen in my life. The fundamental problems that we had to solve to get information from one stock exchange to another, to get it to the sec, um, are the same problems that we're solving today. Back then we were working on mainframes and over high-speed data comm links today, it's the same kind of problem. It's just the underlying infrastructure has changed. >>You know, the key has been a big supporter of women in tech. We've done thousands of interviews on why I got you. I want to ask you, uh, if you don't mind, um, career advice that you give women who are starting out in the field of engineering, computer science, what do you wish you knew when you started your career? And you could be that person now, what would you say? >>Yeah, well, there are a lot of things I wish I knew then, uh, that I know now, but I think there are two key aspects to a successful career in engineering. I actually got started as a math major and the reason I, I became a math major is a little convoluted. Is it as a girl, I was told we were bad at math. And so for some reason I decided that I had to major in it. That's actually how I got my start. Um, but I've had a great career and I think there are really two key aspects first. And is that it is a discipline in which respect is gained through merit. As I had mentioned earlier, engineers are notoriously detail oriented and most of our perfectionist, they love elegant, well thought out solutions and give respect when they see one. So understanding this can be a very important advantage if you're always prepared and you always bring your a game to every debate, every presentation, every conversation you have build up respect among your team, simply through merit. While that may mean that you need to be prepared to defend every point early on say, in your graduate career or when you're starting over time, others will learn to trust your judgment and begin to intuitively follow your lead just by reputation. The reverse is also true. If you don't bring your a game and you don't come prepared to debate, you will quickly lose respect. And that's particularly true if you're a woman. So if you don't know your stuff, don't engage in the debate until you do. That's awesome. >>That's >>Fine. Continue. Thank you. So my second piece of advice that I wish I could give my younger self is to understand the roles of leaders and influencers in your career and the importance of choosing and purposely working with each. I like to break it down into three types of influencers, managers, mentors, and advocates. So that first group are the people in your management chain. It's your first line manager, your director, your VP, et cetera. Their role in your career is to help you measure short-term success. And particularly with how that success aligns with their goals and the company's goals. But it's important to understand that they are not your mentors and they may not have a direct interest in your long-term career success. I like to think of them as say, you're sixth grade math teacher. You know, you're getting an a in the class and advancing to seventh grade. >>They own you for that. Um, but whether you get that basketball scholarship to college or getting to Harvard or become a CEO, they have very little influence over that. So a mentor is someone who does have a shared interest in your longterm success, maybe by your relationship with him or her, or because by helping you shape your career and achieve your own success, you help advance their goals. Whether it be the company success or helping more women achieve, we do put sip positions or getting more kids into college, on a basketball scholarship, whatever it is, they have some long-term goal that aligns with helping you with your career. And they gave great advice. But that mentor is not enough because they're often outside of the sphere of influence in your current position. And while they can offer great advice and coaching, they may not be able to help you directly advance. >>That's the role of the third type of influencer. Somebody that I call an advocate, an advocate is someone that's in a position to directly influence your advancement and champion you and your capabilities to others. They are in influential positions and others place, great value in their opinions. Advocates stay with you throughout your career, and they'll continue to support you and promote you wherever you are and wherever they are, whether that's the same organization or not. They're the ones who, when a leadership position opens up will say, I think Mary's the right person to take on that challenge, or we need to move in a new direction. I think Mary's the right person to lead that effort. Now advocates are the most important people to identify early on and often in your career. And they're often the most overlooked people early on, often pay too much attention and rely on their management chain for advanced managers, change on a dime, but mentors and advocates are there for you for the long haul. And that's one of the unique things about the database culture. Those set of advocates were just there already because they had focused on building the next generation. So I consider, you know, Mike Carey is my father and Mike Stonebraker is my grandfather. And Jim gray is my great-grandfather and they're always there to advocate for me. >>That's like a scheme and a database. You got to have it all white. They're kind of teed up. Beautiful, great advice. >>Thank you for that. That was really a masterclass. And that's going to be great advice for folks really trying to figure out how to play the cards they have a and the situation and to double down or move and find other opportunities. So great stuff there. I do have to ask you Maira, thanks for coming on the technical side and the product side Couchbase Capella was launched, uh, in conjunction with the event. What is, what is the bottom line for that as, as an operations and engineering, you know, built the products and roll it out. What's the main top line message for about that product? >>Yeah, well, we're very excited about the release of Capella and what it brings to the table is that it's a fully managed in an automated database cloud offering so that customers can focus on development and building and improving their applications and reducing the time to market without having to worry about the hard problems underneath and the operational database management efforts that come with it. Uh, as I mentioned earlier, I started my career as a UVA and it was one of the most sought after and highly paid positions in it because operating a database required so much work. So with Capella, what we're seeing is, you know, taking that job away from me, I'm not going to be able to apply for a DBA tomorrow. >>That's great stuff. Well, great. Thanks for coming. I really appreciate congratulations on the company and public offering this past summer in July and thanks for that great commentary and insight on the QPR. Thank you. >>Thank you very much. >>Okay. Mary Ross, VP of engineering operations at Couchbase part of Couchbase connect online. I'm John furry host of the cube. Thanks for watching.

>> Welcome back to the cubes coverage of Couchbase connect online, where the theme of the event is, is modernize now. Yes, let's talk about that. And with me is Ravi mayor him, who's the senior vice president of engineering and the CTO at Couchbase Ravi. Welcome. Great to see you. >> Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here with you. >> I want to ask you what the new requirements are around modern applications. I've seen some of your comments, you got to be flexible, distributed, multimodal, mobile, edge. Those are all the very cool sort of buzz words, smart applications. What does that all mean? And how do you put that into a product and make it real? >> Yeah, I think what has basically happened is that so far it's been a transition of sorts. And now we are come to a point where that tipping point and that tipping point has been more because of COVID and there are COVID has pushed us to a world where we are living in a in a sort of occasionally connected manner where our digital interactions precede, our physical interactions in one sense. So it's a world where we do a lot more stuff that's less than in a digital manner, as opposed to sort of making a more specific human contact. That does really been the sort of accelerant to this modernize Now, as a team. In this process, what has happened is that so far all the databases and all the data infrastructure that we have built historically, are all very centralized. They're all sitting behind. They used to be in mainframes from where they came to like your own data centers, where we used to run hundreds of servers to where they're going now, which is the computing marvelous change to consumption-based computing, which is all cloud oriented now. And so, but they are all centralized still, but where our engagement happens with the data is at the edge at your point of convenience, at your point of consumption, not where the data is actually sitting. So this has led to, you know, all those buzzwords, as you said, which is like, oh, well we need a distributed data infrastructure, where is the edge? But it just basically comes down to the fact that the data needs to be there, if you are engaging with it. And that means if you are doing it on your mobile phone, or if you're sitting, but doing something in your while you're traveling, or whether you're in a subway, whether you're in a plane or a ship, wherever the data needs to come to you and be available, as opposed to every time you going to the data, which is centrally sitting in some place. And that is the fundamental shift in terms of how the modern architecture needs to think when they, when it comes to digital transformation and, transitioning their old applications to the, the modern infrastructure, because that's, what's going to define your customer experiences and your personalized experiences. Otherwise, people are basically waiting for that circle of death that we all know, and blaming the networks and other pieces. The problem was actually, the data is not where you are engaging with it. It's got to be fetched, you know, seven sea's away. And that is the problem that we are basically solving in this modern modernization of that data, data infrastructure. >> I love this conversation and I love the fact that there's a technical person that can kind of educate us on, on this because date data by its very nature is distributed. It's always been distributed, but with the distributed database has always been incredibly challenging, whether it was a global SIS Plex or an eventual consistency of getting recovery for a distributed architecture has been extremely difficult. You know, I hate that this is a terrible term, lots of ways to skin a cat, but, but you've been the visionary behind this notion of optionality, how to solve technical problems in different ways. So how do you solve that, that problem of, of, of, of, of a super rock solid database that can handle, you know, distributed data? >> Yes. So there are two issues that you alluded little too over there. The first is the optionality piece of it, which is that same data that you have that requires different types of processing on it. It's almost like fractional distillation. It is like your crude flowing through the system. You start all over from petrol and you can end up with Vaseline and rayon on the other end, but the raw material, that's our data. In one sense. So far, we never treated the data that way. That's part of the problem. It has always been very purpose built and cast first problem. And so you just basically have to recast it every time we want to look at the data. The first thing that we have done is make data that fluid. So when you're actually, when you have the data, you can first look at it to perform. Let's say a simple operation that we call as a key value store operation. Given my ID, give him a password kind of scenarios, which is like, you know, there are customers of ours who have billions of user IDs in their management. So things get slower. How do you make it fast and easily available? Log-in should not take more than five milliseconds, this is, this is a class of problem that we solve that same data. Now, eventually, without you ever having to sort of do a casting it to a different database, you can now do solid queries. Our classic SQL queries, which is our next magic. We are a no SQL database, but we have a full functional SQL. The SQL has been the language that has talked to data for 40 odd years successfully. Every other database has come and tried to implement their own QL query language, but they've all failed only SQL has stood the test of time of 40 odd years. Why? Because there's a solid mathematics behind it. It's called a relational calculus. And what that helps you is, is basically a look at the data and any common editorial, any, any which way you look at the data, all it will come, the data in a format that you can consume. That's the guarantee sort of gives you in one sense. And because of that, you can now do some really complex in the database signs, what we call us, predicate logic on top of that. And that gives you the ability to do the classic relational type queries select star from where, kind of stuff, because it's at an English level becomes easy to so the same day that you didn't have to go move it to another database, do your sort of transformation of the data and all the stuff, same day that you do this. Now that's where the optionality comes in. Now you can do another piece of logic on top of this, which we call search. This is built on this concept of inverted index and TF IDF, the classic Google in a very simple terms, what Google tokenized search, you can do that in the same data without you ever having to move the data to a different format. And then on top of it, they can do what is known as a eventing or your own custom logic, which we all which we do on a, on programming language called Java script. And finally analytics and analytics is the, your ability to query the operational data in a different way. And talk querying, what was my sales of this widget year over year on December 1st week, that's a very complex question to ask, and it takes a lot of different types of processing. So these are different types of that's optionality with different types of processing on the same data without you having to go to five different systems without you having to recast the data in five different ways and apply different application logic. So you put them in one place. Now is your second question. Now this has got to be distributed and made available in multiple cloud in your data center, all the way to the edge, which is the operational side of the, the database management system. And that's where the distributed platform that we have built enables us to get it to where you need the data to be, you know, in the classic way we call it CDN'ing the data as in like content delivery networks. So far do static, sort of moving of static content to the edges. Now we can actually dynamically move the data. Now imagine the richness of applications you can develop. >> And on the first part of, of the, the, the answer to my question, are you saying you could do this without scheme with a no schema on, right? And then you can apply those techniques. >> Fantastic question. Yes. That's the brilliance of this database is that so far classically databases have always demanded that you first define a schema before you can write a single byte of data. Couchbase is one of the rare databases. I, for one don't know any other one, but there could be, let's give the benefit of doubt. It's a database which writes data first and then late binds to schema as we call it. It's a schema on read thing. So, because there is no schema, it is just a Json document that is sitting inside. And Json is the lingua franca of the web, as you very well know by now. So it just Json that we manage, you can do key value look ups of the Json. You can do full credit capability, like a classic relational database. We even have cost-based optimizers and other sophisticated pieces of technology behind it. You can do searching on it, using the, the full textual analysis pipeline. You can do ad hoc webbing on the analytics side, and you can write your own custom logic on it using or inventing capabilities. So that's, that's what it allows because we keep the data in the native form of Json. It's not a data structure or a data schema imposed by a database. It is how the data is produced. And on top of it, bring, we bring different types of logic, five different types of it's like the philosophy is bringing logic to data as opposed to moving data to logic. This is what we have been doing in the last 40 years, because we developed various database systems and data processing systems at various points in time in our history, we had key value stores. We had relational systems, we had search systems, we had analytical systems. We had queuing systems, all these systems, if you want to use any one of them are answered. It always been, just move the data to that system. Versus we are saying that do not move the data as we get bigger and bigger and data just moving this data is going to be a humongous problem. If you're going to be moving petabytes of data for this, it's not going to fly instead, bring the logic to the data, right? So you can now apply different types of logic to the data. I think that's what, in one sense, the optionality piece of this. >> But as you know, there's plenty of schema-less data stores. They're just, they're called data swamps. I mean, that's what they, that's what they became, right? I mean, so this is some, some interesting magic that you're applying here. >> Yes. I mean, the one problem with the data swamps as you call them is that that was a little too open-ended because the data format itself could change. And then you do your, then everything became like a game data recasting because it required you to have it in seven schema in one sense at, at the end of the day, for certain types of processing. So in that where a lot of gaps it's probably related, but it not really, how do you say keep to the promise that it actually meant to be? So that's why it was a swamp I mean, because it was fundamentally not managing the data. The data was sitting in some file system, and then you are doing something, this is a classic database where the data is managed and you create indexes to manage it. And you create different types of indexes to manage it. You distribute the index, you distribute the data you have, like we were discussing, you have ACID semantics on top of, and when you, when you put all these things together, it's, it's, it's a tough proposition, but we have solved some really tough problems, which are good computer science stuff, computer science problems that we have to solve to bring this, to bring this, to bear, to bring this to the market. >> So you predicted the trend around multimodal and converged databases. You kind of led Couchbase through that. I, I want, I always ask this question because it's clearly a trend in the industry and it, and it definitely makes sense from a simplification standpoint. And, and, and so that I don't have to keep switching databases or the flip side of that though, Ravi. And I wonder if you could give me your opinion on this is kind of the right tool for the right job. So I often say isn't that the Swiss army knife approach, where you have have a little teeny scissors and a knife, that's not that sharp. How, how do you respond to that? >> A great one. My answer is always, I use another analogy to tackle that, and is that, have you ever accused a smartphone of being a Swiss army knife? - No. No. >> Nobody does. That because it actually 40 functions in one is what a smartphone becomes. You never call your iPhone or your Android phone, a Swiss army knife, because here's the reason is that you can use that same device in the full capacity. That's what optionality is. It's not, I'm not, it's not like your good old one where there's a keyboard hiding half the screen, and you can do everything only through the keyboard without touching and stuff like that. That's not the whole devices available to you to do one type of processing when you want it. When you're done with that, it can do another completely different types of processing. Right? As in a moment, it could be a TomTom, telling you all the directions, the next one, it's your PDA. Third one. It's a fantastic phone. Four. It's a beautiful camera which can do your f-stop management and give you a nice SLR quality picture. Right? So next moment, it's the video camera. People are shooting movies with this thing in Hollywood, these days for God's sake. So it gives you the full power of what you want to do when you want it. And now, if you just thought that iPhone is a great device or any smartphone is a great device, because you can do five things in one or 50 things in one, and at a certain level, he missed the point because what that device really enabled is not just these five things in one place. It becomes easy to consume and easy to operate. It actually started the app based economy. That's the brilliance of bringing so many things in one place, because in the morning, you know, I get an alert saying that today you got to leave home at >> 8: 15 for your nine o'clock meeting. And the next day it might actually say 8 45 is good enough because it knows where the phone is sitting. The geo position of it. It knows from my calendar where the meeting is actually happening. It can do a traffic calculation because it's got my map and all of the routes. And then it's got this notification system, which eventually pops up on my phone to say, Hey, you got to leave at this time. Now five different systems have to come together and they can because the data is in one place. Without that, you couldn't even do this simple function in a, in a sort of predictable manner in a, in a, in a manner that's useful to you. So I believe a database which gives you this optionality of doing multiple data processing on the same set of data allows you will allow you to build a class of products, which you are so far been able to struggling to build. Because half the time you're running sideline to sideline, just, you know, integrating data from one system to the other. >> So I love the analogy with the smartphone. I want to, I want to continue it and double click on it. So I use this camera. I used to, you know, my kid had a game. I would bring the, the, the big camera, the 35 millimeter. So I don't use that anymore no way, but my wife does, she still uses the DSLR. So is, is there a similar analogy here? That those, and by the way, the camera, the camera shop in my town went out of business, you know? So, so, but, but is there, is that a fair and where, in other words, those specialized databases, they say there still is a place for them, but they're getting. >> Absolutely, absolutely great analogy and a great extension to the question. That's like, that's the contrarian side of it in one sense is that, Hey, if everything can just be done in one, do you have a need for the other things? I mean, you gave a camera example where it is sort of, it's a, it's a slippery slope. Let me give you another one, which is actually less straight to the point better. I've been just because my, I, I listened to half of my music on the iPhone. Doesn't stop me from having my full digital receiver. And, you know, my Harman Kardon speakers at home because they, I mean, they produce a kind of sounded immersive experience. This teeny little speaker has never in its lifetime intended to produce, right? It's the convenience. Yes. It's the convenience of convergence that I can put my earphones on and listen to all the great music. Yes, it's 90% there or 80% there. It depends on your audio file-ness of your, I mean, your experience super specialized ones do not go away. You know, there are, there are places where the specialized use cases will demand a separate system to exist. But even there that has got to be very closed. How do you say close, binding or late binding? I should be able to stream that song from my phone to that receiver so I can get it from those speakers. You can say that all, there's a digital divide between these two things done, and I can only play CDs on that one. That's not how it's going to work going forward. It's going to be, this is the connected world, right? As in, if I'm listening to the song in my car and then step off the car, walk into my living room, that same songs should continue and play in my living room speakers. Then it's a connected world because it knows my preference and what I'm doing that all happened only because of this data flowing between all these systems. >> I love, I love that example too. When I was a kid, we used to go to Tweeter, et cetera. And we used to play around with three, take home, big four foot speakers. Those stores are out of business too. Absolutely. And now we just plug into Sonos. So that is the debate between relational and non-relational databases over Ravi? >> I believe so, because I think what had happened was relational systems. I've mean where the norm, they rule the roost, if you will, for the last 40 odd years and then gain this no SQL movement, which was almost as though a rebellion from the relational world, we all inhabited because we, it was very restrictive. It, it had the schema definition and the schema evolution as we call it, all those things, they were like, they required a committee. They required your DBA and your data architect. And you had to call them just to add one column and stuff like that. And the world had moved on. This was a world of blogs and tweets and, you know, mashups and a different generation of digital behavior, There are digital, native people now who are operating in these and the, the applications, the, the consumer facing applications. We are living in this world. And yet the enterprise ones were still living in the, in the other, the other side of the divide. So out came this solution to say that we don't need SQL. Actually the problem was never SQL. No SQL was, you know, best approximation, good marketing name, but from a technologist perspective, the problem was never the query language, no SQL was not the problem, the schema limitations and the inability for these, the system to scale, the relational systems were built like airplanes, which is that if a San Francisco, Boston, there is a flight route, it's so popular that if you want to add 50 more seats to it, the only way you can do that is to go back to Boeing and ask them to get you a set from 7 3 7 2 7 7 7, or whatever it is. And they'll stick you with a billion dollar bill on the allowance that you'll somehow pay that by, you know, either flying more people or raising the rates or whatever you have to do. These are all vertically scaling systems. So relational systems are vertically scaling. They are expensive. Versus what we have done in this modern world is make the system horizontally scaling, which is more like the same thing. If it's a train that is going from San Francisco to Boston, you need 50 more people be my guest. I'll add one more coach to it, one more car to it. And the better part of the way we have done this here is that, and we are super specialized on that. This route actually requires three, three dining cars and only 10 sort of sleeper cars or whatever. Then just pick those and attach the next route. You can choose to have, I need only one dining car. That's good enough. So the way you scale the plane is also can be customized based on the route along the route, more, more dining capabilities, shorter route, not an abandoned capability. You can attach the kind of coaches we call this multidimensional scaling. Not only do we scale horizontally, we can scale to different types of workloads by adding different types of coaches to it, right? So that's the beauty of this architecture. Now, why is that architecture important? Is that where we land eventually is the ability to do operational and analytical in the same place. This is another thing which doesn't happen in the past, because, you would say that I cannot run this analytical query because then my operational workload will suffer. Then my front end, then we'll slow down millions of customers that impacted that problem. They'll solve the same data once again, do analytical query, an operational query because they're separated by these cars, right? As in like we, we, we fence the, the, the resources so that one doesn't impede the other. So you can, at the same time, have a microsecond 10 million ops per second, happening of a key value or a query. And then yet you can run this analytical query, which will take a couple of minutes to them. One, not impeding the other. So that's in one sense, sort of the part of the problems that we have solved it here is that relational versus the no SQL portion of it. These are the kinds of problems we have to solve. We solve those. And then we yet put back the same query language on top. Why? It's like Tesla in one sense, right underneath the surface is where all the stuff that had to be changed had to change, which is like the gasoline, the internal combustion engine the gas, you says, these were the issues we really wanted to solve. So solve that, change the engine out, you don't need to change the steering wheel or the gas pedal or the, you know, the battle shifters or whatever else you need, over there your gear shifters. Those need to remain in the same place. Otherwise people won't buy it. Otherwise it does not even look like a car to people. So even when you feed people, the most advanced technology, it's got to be accessible to them in the manner that people can consume. Only in software, we forget this first design principle, and we go and say that, well, I got a car here, you got the blow harder to go fast. And they lean back for, for it to, you know, to apply a break that's, that's how we seem to define design software. Instead, we shouldn't be designing them in a manner that it is easiest for our audience, which is developers to consume. And they've been using SQL for 40 years or 30 years. And so we give them the steering wheel on the, and the gas pedal and the, and the gear shifters by putting SQL back on underneath the surface, we have completely solved the relational limitations of schema, as well as scalability. So in, in, in that way, and by bringing back the classic ACID capabilities, which is what relational systems we accounted on, and being able to do that with the SQL programming language, we call it like multi-statement SQL transaction. So to say, which is what a classic way all the enterprise software was built by putting that back. Now, I can say that that debate between relational and non-relational is over because this has truly extended the database to solve the problems that the relational systems had to grow up to solve in the modern times, rather than get sort of pedantic about whether it's we have no SQL or SQL or new SQL, or, you know, any of that sort of jargon oriented debate. This is, these are the debates of computer science that they are actually, and they were the solve, and they have solved them with the latest release of 7.0, which we released a few months ago. >> Right, right. Last July, Ravi, we got got to leave it there. I love the examples and the analogies. I can't wait to be face-to-face with you. I want to hang with you at the cocktail party because I've learned so much and really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming to the cube. >> Fantastic. Thanks for the time. And the opportunity I was, I mean, very insightful questions really appreciate it. - Thank you. >> Okay. This is Dave Volante. We're covering Couchbase connect online, keep it right there for more great content on the cube.

>>Mhm >>Welcome to this preview of couch based connect online 2021. My name is Dave Volonte with the cube and we're here with couch based ceo matt cain matt. Good to see you again. Welcome >>Thanks Dave. Great to be here. >>We are super excited at the Cube to partner with Couch Base this year to share the news, the analysis from connect online 21. What can attendees expect from the event this year? What's the theme? What can people really take away? >>They were fired up, you know, there is no different. Our theme this year is modernized now and it's something that we're hearing from our customers across the world is they think about leveraging technology to get closer to their customers and at the top of every one of their strategic agendas is figuring out how to build the best applications to service our needs as our personal lives and in our business lives and we're really focused on talking about the technology that we uniquely architected to enable this that stands aspects of relational database technology and new capabilities, leveraging those people technology, putting that into an integrated platform and really supporting customers. And we love talking about what we built Dave but we love even more when our customers share what they've been doing with our platform, customers like Pepsi and Amadeus and American greetings, you're going to hear them and their development meant teams talk about how they have leverage couch base to solve some of the most fundamental application challenges and how that's really opening up new businesses for them in their end markets. >>Let's talk a little bit more mad about that, the modernized now. I mean the trends that we're seeing in in the market place, they were in motion before the pandemic. But digital digitization and modernization has really become a high priority. Talk about why in your view now is the time to modernize and what's the mandate for enterprises? >>Well look, I think digital transformation has been a focus point for some time and I think that's going to continue as we go forward. But I think as enterprise think about the challenges they have in front of them to successfully transform digitally, they may be thinking about the problem a little bit differently in light of current circumstances. Uh and what we're seeing is enterprises have the desire to innovate, but they may not always have the resources or the capabilities to do it at the place they want to. And so how do they approach this challenge first and foremost, they need a platform that can help bridge the legacy world and the new one that they can safely evolve applications and modernize, you know, workloads that were dependent on relational databases while putting them into new platforms. At the same time, they need people to do this work. So if I'm an democrats, almost an insatiable demand to build new applications, but I don't necessarily have all the people and teams and capability and skill sets needed to support that. So as a technology company, we've got to think through how do we help provide the tools that will open up more people's ability to contribute to that digital transformation leveraging things like sequel is the fact of language in the database technology allowing enterprises to repurpose workforces free up investment dollars, free up people to really focus on the next generation of properties that are going to change their businesses. And so I think the current economic conditions haven't changed the fact that digital transformation is the top of the priority list. If anything, that reinforced the urge with which enterprises need to go after this, but also the way that they need to do it. But I can't just continue to throw niche technologies of problems. I've really got to think about what kind of platforms tonight and then in the future and a couch base as the modern database for enterprise applications. This is what we're going to spend time talking about and helping customers understand the value that we can unlock for them as they invest in the couch based platform. >>Super relevant now since we last talked matt, he made some big moves, not the least of which is you're now a public company. We've been following that. But what's changed what's new product wise and maybe one of the fundamentals of the market that that your your customers and your culture or driving. >>Yeah, well let's talk about first, what's not changed? We continue to be long term oriented couch basically believe we're in truly what we call a generational market transition and the challenges in front of enterprises unparalleled. So too are the opportunities for enterprises that get this right? They will innovate and thriving in their respective markets. And so as a company, we pride ourselves in being maniacally focused at solving unmet, underserved needs in the world of databases. And really thinking through what technological challenges do we need to innovate on store, customers can take that technology and successful. That's not, that hasn't changed that, that won't change. We continue to be insanely customer focused and really studying those problems and making sure that we're adding value in everything we do from a product perspective services, how we show up to help our customers and that's really important. Um certainly as you said, it's a big milestone for the company step in the public market. We're very proud of what we've accomplished over our first decade or so of existence. But we truly believe that we've been built for this moment and that market transition that ever have referred to um that that movement into the public markets allows us to talk more broadly about all that we've built and how customers are taking advantage of our technology case in point is probably the biggest release in company history couch based server seven oh, so while we were busy taking a step into the public market, we also continue to innovate as I said and are very pleased to be a market with couch base 70 which fundamentally bridges for enterprise customers to move from relational to modern databases and do that in a single integrated platform. And we're going to talk about that connect in more detail and how application developers can re platform applications in a much more seamless way and then start to innovate in a way, you know, that they never have. So a ton of work underway. We've got some really exciting announcements which I think we'll talk about here in the second at least plant the seeds on those. But we're going to be really focused on the innovation that we've delivered up to this point because it's so fundamentally valuable to the enterprise customers we serve and couldn't be more excited to share the benefits of that. That's actually what we're going to help customers do as we go forward. >>Well, we see a lot of companies and as as we evaluated, you've hit critical mass in terms of how we think about it successful I. P. O. Your surpassed $100 million in revenue 500 plus customers talk about the opportunity for couch based to continue to grow. What's in store. What's the focus? >>Well, as I mentioned, we're going to we're going to continue to innovate and so you know, ahead of the conference. We're going to talk about some really important upcoming innovations and I'm not gonna steal too much of the thunder from the show, people are really pumped and putting that material together? We we focus a lot on ensuring that we have the best database in the market, particularly for enterprise applications. Uh and really thinking through the architecture that will support applications today and going forward and we've been really successful with that date. As you mentioned, we have not only a lot of enterprise customers and we're really proud of those customers would support what were even more proud of though. Dave is the mission critical nature the enterprise nature of those applications. These companies are truly running their businesses on applications powered by pouches as we go forward. We have almost unlimited potential for new opportunity in acquiring new customers. Um and we're really focused on that and evangelizing what we've done successfully with our existing base to new customers and their respective markets and we continue to acquire those and you know will successfully expand because of the power of our platform. We've done a lot to invest in our partner ecosystem. So you know we have many I. S. V. S. That are taking our solutions to market. We have G. S. I. S. That are building practices around couch base because our database provides capabilities that others don't and they can run their businesses and help their end customers transform with the power of couch face. But Dave what we like to talk about a couch bases, we have opportunities to really help customers once we get in. We think about many factors of growth. So when we support a customer with an application, what often happens is that application growth because the enterprises successful and they put more users in or they deployed a new new geography at the same time, they realize, wow, if I can support highly interactive, highly scalable distributed applications in this particular area, I have hundreds, if not thousands of those in my enterprise, so I can use the platform for that. Then one of the things that we focus on is giving more and more capabilities to developers to enhance the performance and the personalization of their applications I mentioned, we support the sequel query language, we've got operational analytics, we've embedded full text search, we have things like eventing all of these are elegantly architected features that allow developers to build great applications and the more that were successful in helping developers do that, you know, the more, the more the company is going to grow. Um and then on top of all that we couldn't be more excited about about cloud and couch based cloud from the very outset has been a cloud, native platform, are enterprises are running this and multi and hybrid cloud deployments, but what we really have an opportunity to do is help them and run more of the service of, of that cloud solution and we're gonna be talking a lot more uh you know, come come the show about some specifics around that offering and could be more excited about augmenting or portfolio with some new capabilities there >>lot to learn at this event. Tons of meat on the bone. Okay. Matt, we're gonna leave it right there. Couch based, connect online. It's a two day event, october 20th to the 21st. More than 80 sessions geared for architects, developers, business users, open source advocates. Now the easiest way to register, all you gotta do is go to couch base dot com. You'll see the link there. There's a hackathon with prizes. So start developing and win. And while you're there, check out the free downloads with a number of different deployment options. Couch based, connect 2021 modernized. Now we'll see you there. >>Mhm mm.

(upbeat music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicone Valley Palo Alto, California. This is a CUBE conversation. >> Hello everyone. Welcome to this CUBE conversation here at our Palo Alto CUBE studios. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Got a great conversation here with Matt Cain, CEO of Couchbase. Matt, welcome to theCUBE. >> John, thanks for having me here. >> So it's great to have you on because we've been following Couchbase really from the beginning but in 2011 that was the big movement with Couchbase and Membase coming together. Since then quite a tear. Couple of things, one from a business standpoint, good mix of you guys. And then you've got the cloud trend just absolute change the game with scale. So enterprise is now a reeling, cloud is there, the roll of data's changed. Now data's now a part of everything. This has been a big part of the successful companies in this next cloud 2.0 or this next shift. Give us an update on Couchbase. What's going on with the company? You've been the CEO for a couple of years, what's new? >> Yeah, so I'm 2 1/2 years in, John. It's been a great ride so far. Let's talk a little bit about how successful the company is and then we'll spend some time on the market. We just finished the first half of our fiscal year and the business is on a phenomenal trajectory. We're up 70% year on year. Average contract values up 50%. Total contract value up over 100%. We now call 30% of the Fortune 100 customers. So in terms of business success we're really proud of what we're able to do and the problems that we're solving for our customers. The backdrop, and what we're so excited about is the market transition that we're participating in. And it's our belief at Couchbase that the world of databases represents the single biggest market transition that's going to occur in technology over the next couple years. And I think there are two fundamental drivers behind that transition which you talked about. One of them is a technology disruption and the other is business disruption. On the business side we believe deeply in digital transformation or the fourth industrial revolution. And we spend our time going around the world talking to enterprise customers and everyone of 'em is figuring out how to use technology to get closer to their customers and change their business. In order to do that they need to build next generation applications that change our customer experience as both professionals and our personal lives. To enable that though, you need a completely different approach to the database. And how you manage the underlying data to enable those experiences and Couchbase sits at the intersection of those two transitions. >> Want to get into some of the database software dynamics from being a software company, a database company. You guys are, you're on a good wave, you've got a good surfboard as we say in California. But the couple of things I want to get your thoughts on, you see the database market like the oracles of the world. The database that rules the world, that's changed. Now there's multiple databases out there. Different needs for different workloads. And then you've got open-source. So you've got the two things going on I want to get your reaction to. One is the changing landscape of the database market. And two, the impact of open-source because both have been changing and growing and evolving. What's your reaction to those two dynamics? >> So let's talk databases first. I think to reflect on databases one needs to think about the applications that those databases have been architected to support. And if you look at legacy solutions, legacy systems, it was really built on relational technology. And the applications those were optimized for and have been really running for the last many decades were big monolithic applications. And I like to say the implementation of one of those at a large financial firm in New York probably wasn't much different than a consumer company in Seattle. That is changing now in the world of microservices and customer experiences and applications demand a different type of database. And so as we think about what is an application literally everything that we do between the human world and the digital world goes via an application. Whether it's our, you know, checking our banking statements, how we engage with our health care provider, how we travel, how we buy things, whether we're in a store or we're doing it from the comfort of our home. Everything is via an application and what we've come to expect is I want that application to work my way which is different than your way. Well that's a very different thing than legacy applications that were built for CRM or ERP and so databases are going through this big transformation because of that business transition that I talked about where we as consumer are demanding different ways of engaging. And if you look at enterprise success in digital transformation it's very tied to the experiences that they're creating which necessitate a database that is capable of handling those. So we're seeing a massive shift in database technologies or proliferation of new companies that are supporting next generation applications. With respect to open-source, when I talk to enterprises they want the flexibility of a new way of acquiring technology. And people are very used to, "I want to examine things "in the way I want to learn about it. "And I want to play with technology "to make sure that it's going to meet my needs." In the case of databases, does it have the scale and performance? Does it have the usability? And so as an open-source company we want to enable our application developers, our enterprise architects, our dev-ops teams to use the technology and see what's it like. And I think enterprises really appreciate that model. So I think open-source is not only unique to databases, it's how enterprises want to-- >> And certainly is growing and changing as well. So you mentioned open-source and databases. I want to get your thoughts on the cloud impact because if you look at the success of Amazon which I call them the leaders and they won the cloud 1.0 game, or the first inning, or the first game of the double header as some say. APIs led itself well to decoupling and creating highly cohesive workloads. Using APIs and (mumbles). There you got to store data in the databases. You might have one workload with one database and another workload using other databases. So have you have a diverse database landscape. >> For sure. >> So that's kind of out there. So if that's the case how do I as an enterprise deal with this because now I'm thinking, "Okay, I want to stitch it all together. "I got to maintain security. "Now I'm dealing with multiple clouds." It's become a discussion and design point for dealing with all these new dimensions. What's the mind of the customer in all this? >> Yeah, and on top of that I want to do it without dramatically increasing my total cost of ownership. And so I talk a lot to enterprises that represent that very challenge. What they say is I have to change the customer experience. In order to do that I need to understand who they are. What are their preferences? What inventory do I have as an organization? What do I have in physical locations? What we talk about is different data silos. And the reality is data has been in those silos for a long time and in some cases it's not coming out anytime soon. So one of the new approaches with data platforms is how do I take advantage of existing investment and infrastructure and layer in new technology platforms that can sit between the application and the legacy systems? And then you can suck that data into a data store that is helping feed the applications on a real time basis whether that's in the cloud or out to the edge. And Couchbase is one of the examples of a database that can handle that but can handle it at scale unlike any other company on the planet. So when we talk to customers it's how do you extract all that different information which has rich potential if they application logic can present it in a way that's customized but do that in a way that's constantly on, available from anywhere in the network topology and reliable. So it is a challenge and it's one of the greatest computer science challenges in the enterprise right now. >> On that point I want to ask you, what's the number one story or trend that people should be paying attention to? >> Yeah, so you asked a question on cloud, which I think is fundamental, and enterprise is like pay as you go models and utilization based economics which make complete sense. A lot of the architecture therefor is being driven in a centralized manor. So bring information into centralized cloud take advantage of bundling effects. I believe that one of the best kept secrets if you will or biggest trends that people aren't spending as much time on is edge. If you think about us in this studio right now there isn't a cloud sitting behind us and yet you're working on your machine, I was on my device a moment ago and I'm expecting real time information across all my applications. We are constantly manipulating, moving, accessing data and we expect to be able to do that at all times. Well in order to do that at the scale in which we're talking you have to have database technology at the edge. And by definition if you're expecting a roundtrip of data processing, which you're potentially doing, is increasing latency. And that's if you have a reliable connection. If you don't have a reliable connection you're dead in the water with it with that application. So if you think about the future of healthcare, if you think about next generation retail, if you think about connected homes and connected cars, the reality is we're going to expect massive processing of data out at the edge. And I think data platform companies have to be mindful of what they're architecting for. Now Couchbase is uniquely positioned in NoSQL databases that we can run in any public cloud and we can run that same platform out to the edge and orchestrate the movement of applications and data between every point of the network topology. And that's when our enterprises say, "Wow, this is game changing technology "that allows me to serve my customers "the way they want to be served." >> Most people might not know this about you, and I'm going to put you on the spot here, is that you had almost a 10 year run at Cisco. >> Yeah, that's right. >> From the 2000 timeframe. Those were the years that Cisco was cutting its teeth into going from running the internet routes to building application layers and staring see... And the debate at that time was should Cisco move up the stack. I'm sure you were involved in a lot of those conversations. They never did and they're kind of staying in their swim lane. But the network is the network and we're in a distributed network with the cloud, so the question is what is the edge now? So is the edge just the network edge? Is it the persons body? Is it the wearable? How do you guys define the edge? >> I think the edge is constantly being pushed further and further, right? One of the things that we talk a lot about is mobile devices, right? If we think about the device that we as humans ultimately touch at the end where we're not dependent on sensors and things, it is our mobile devices and we all know the impact that's had. I'd be willing to bet you that cup of coffee that you have Couchbase database running in your mobile device because we can actually embed it inside the application and allow the application architect to determine how much data you want to use. But the way we've architected things is we think for the future. This isn't just mobile devices, this is the ability to put things directly into sensors. And if we think about how applications are working the amount of data that you can draw with machine learning algorithms, which we've enabled in our latest release, imagine a world where we're embedding a database instance inside of a sensor. So companies aren't quite there today, but we're not that far off where that's going to be the case. >> Well I bring up the Cisco example because you obviously at that time the challenge was moving packets around from point A to point B. You mentioned storage, you store things from here to there. Move packets around in point A to point B. That's the general construct. But when we think about data they're not packets you're talking about sometimes megabytes and betabytes of data. So the general theme is don't move data around the network. How does that impact your business? How does that impact a customer? Because okay they maybe have campuses or wide area networks or SD-WAN, whatever they got. They still want a instrument, they still want to run compute at the edge, but moving the data around has become persona non gratae in **. So how do people get around that? What's the design point? >> So you and I remember these examples when we use to go into conference rooms and ask for ethernet cables, right? The days of what is my wifi connectivity weren't there yet. If we think about that philosophical challenge that was I'm used to a certain experience with connectivity, how do I enable that same connectivity and performance as I get further and further away from the central topology? And so what we did at Cisco is put more and more sophistication into branch routing and make sure that we had reliability and performance between all points of the topology. The reality is if you were to take that same design approach to databases, what you end up with is that centralized cloud model which a lot of companies have chosen. The problem with it occurs when you're running truly business critical applications that demand real-time performance and processing of massive applications. And so-- >> Like what, retail? >> Yeah. So at Couchbase what we've decided to do is take the data logic where the data resides. So we actually now call four of the top 10 retailers in the world customers. And what they are doing is changing our experience as consumers. Omnichannel. When I walk into a store, imagine if you're at a do-it-yourself retailer, somethings popped off the back of your washing machine and you say, "I don't know how old the washing machine is. "I don't know what the part is." Go into one of these mega stores that we know, with the application now via Couchbase in a mobile phone I could take a picture of that. With machine learning algorithms I'm now running technology to say, "Do I have this in inventory?" "What is it compatible with?" "Oh, and it happens to be on aisle 5." Or, "We don't have it and we're going to ship it out." I mean that's game-changing stuff. Well to enable that use case I need to understand who you are. I need to know what you've bought before. I need to understand our product catalog, what things are compatible with. You're literally storing, in that case, three or four billion instances in a data store that you need to access on a real-time basis. >> In milliseconds. >> In less than 2 1/2 second millisecond response rates. To make the challenge even more exciting, those customers come to us and they say, "Well what if there's a hurricane?" "What if there is no internet connectivity?" "What if I don't have a cellular connection?" I still want my users to have a great customer experience. Well now all of a sudden that isn't an extension of a cloud, that becomes it's own cloud. Now to orchestrate the movement of information and applications from that point and have consistency across all your other stores, you need to figure out orchestrating applications, orchestrating massive amounts of data, having consistency. And so the way to do it, bring the data logic where the data resides and then really understand how applications want to move things around. >> So first of all, my database antenna goes up. The comparison of the old days was you had to go to a database, run packets across the network, access the database, do a lookup, send it back and then go back again. >> Right, right. And that's not possible. That's interesting modern approach. But you also mentioned all that complexity that's involved in that. Okay, no power or no connectivity you have to have an almost a private cloud instance right there. I mean this is complex. >> Very complex. >> And this is some of the kinds of things we saw with the recent Jedi proposal that Amazon and Microsoft fought over. Microsoft won to deal with the battle fields. All this complexity where there's no bandwidth, you got to have the data stored locally, it's got to use the back hall properly. So there's a lot of things going on in the system. There's a lot to keep track of. How do you guys manage that from a product standpoint because there's somethings are out of your control. >> Yeah. >> How does Couchbase make that scale work? >> So that's a great question. Let me again complete the problem statement which is databases need to account for all that complexity but application developers and dev-ops teams don't want to deal with the specifics of a database. And so when we're selling into enterprises at this magnitude we need to be very relevant to application developers where they want speed and agility and familiarity of tools they know and yet we need to have the robustness and completeness of a platform that can literally run business critical applications. And so part of the power of Couchbase is that we engineer with extreme elegance, that we put a lot of that sophistication into the database and our job is to write the code that manages that complexity. But what we also do is we go to enterprise and we say we give you the full power of this NoSQL engine that is in memory, shared nothing, scale out, highest performance on the planet but we allow you all the power and familiarity of the language you know which is SQL. You've got this, I'm sure back to your database education you were familiar with, SQLs a programing language, well there's an entire world of database people and architects that understand that as an interface. So how do I account for that complexity but then go to you and say, "You know that language "that you've been speaking the whole time "talking to your old database? "Well you can speak with that same language "on your new database." And that's how you can really break through enabling customers to modernize their applications with all this complexity but do so in a way that they're comfortable with and is aligned to the skills that they-- >> So you extract away the interface, or language NoSQL I know there are others and modernize onto the covers? >> Correct. >> And at scale? >> At the highest scale. >> All right, I got to ask you about multi-cloud because multi-cloud is something that we were talking before we came on camera around cloud sprawl, inheriting clouds, M&A. Companies have multiple clouds they're dealing with but no one's, well my opinion, no one's architecting to build the best multi-cloud system. They're dealing with multi-clouds and design point which you mentioned which is interesting. I want to get your thoughts on this because you're hearing a lot of multi-cloud buzz. And it's a reality but it's also a challenge for application developers. And I want to get your thoughts on this. How should people thinking about multi-cloud in your opinion? >> Yeah, so my perspective starts with what we hear from our customers. And our customers say for truly business critical applications that they are running their business on, whether it's core booking engines, customer platforms, the touchpoint between users and stores, they say, "Look, I need to design a system "that's reliable and higher performing "and public cloud is a reality. "At the same time I have legacy data center on-prem, "I've got things out at the edge," and so they have to architect a multi-cloud, hybrid cloud, and distributed environment. And so depending on the layer of the stack that you're in I think the cloud companies would talk about their multi-cloud strategy. I come at it a different way which is how do we build a data platform that supports the applications that demand a hybrid multi-cloud environment? And so when we have a certain application that's running on-prem, how do we alive for a reliable failover instance to be running in a public cloud? To me that is truly fulfilling on the demands that enterprises have. And so I think multi-cloud is a strategy of all enterprises. Giving the flexibility with things like Kubernetes to avoid cloud lock in. Making sure your system can handle migration of workloads and active, active, active, passive scenario. I think that's our approach to multi-cloud. >> It's interesting, again back to this Jedi thing which was front and center in the news. Kind of speaks to the modern era of what the needs are. The Department of Defense has a multi-cloud strategy, they have multiple clouds, and well turns out Microsoft might be the sole source. But their idea was it's okay to have a sole source cloud for a workload but still deal within a multi-cloud framework. What's your thoughts on this? Some people are saying, "Hey, if you've got a workload "that runs great on cloud, do it." >> Yeah. I don't want to make that decision for the enterprise, I want them to determine what the best instance is based on the application that they're enabling. So I ask all my enterprise customers, "How many applications do you have in your environment?" Thousands of applications. It would be wrong for me to go dictate and say, "Well I have the answer "for every one of those applications." Instead we want to build a sophisticated platform that says look, if these are the requirements, the performance requirements, run your database in this instance and you determine if that's the best for you. If you have a legacy application that needs an underlying mainframe or relational database, that's fine. We're not asking you to forklift upgrade that. Put the database in there that's going to give you the performance and requirements you want. And so again, it's where do application developers want to stand up their application for the best performance? I'll tell you what, in the 2 1/2 years I've been at Couchbase I've sat down with Fortune 100 CIOs that have absolutely told me, "Here is our cloud strategy "with public cloud vendor number one." Come back two years later and they said, "We have shifted for X, Y, and Z reason "and we are going to public cloud vendor number two." If we had chosen one specific deployment and not given thought to how enterprises are eventually going to want to have that flexibility we would be having a very different conversation. And so when we talk about we're enterprise class, multi-cloud to edge, NoSQL database, it's giving enterprises this flexibility at a database-- >> So on that example of I went with cloud number one and then moved to cloud number two, was that a I'm stopping with cloud one going to cloud two or I'm going to move a little bit to cloud two or both? >> I think it varies depending on the CIO that you're talking to. It could be they didn't handle GDPR the way I wanted to or it could be they're not deployed in a certain geographic reason. It could be-- >> Capabilities issue. >> Capabilities. Could be business relationship. You know, I have a particular commercial relationship over here therefor I have an incentive to move here. Some of 'em have dual strategies, so I think it's very dangerous for companies like us to try to-- >> Beauty's in the eye of the beholder as I always say with cloud. You pick your cloud based on what you're trying to do. Final question, security obviously, cloud security you're seeing. Amazon just had a recent even called re:Inforce which was I think the first cloud security show, RSA, there's a bunch of other shows that go on, they're all different. But security clearly is being baked in everywhere. Kind of like data, kind of horizontally embedded, need real time, you need a lot of complexity involved. They want to make it easier. What's your view on how security is playing out for Couchbase? >> Look, it's a paramount design principle for us. And we think that to build a database for business critical applications you need to have reliability, you need to have performance, you need to have scalability, you have to have security. So it's part of how we think about every component from cloud to edge and everything in between. How do we have encryption? How do we have multi-factor authentication? How do we ensure that not just securing the data itself, but how do we give the operational controls to the database teams to orchestrate the movement of data and synchronize it in a reliable way. So absolutely important to us because it's important to our customers. >> Awesome. Matt Cain, CEO of Couchbase here inside theCUBE for CUBE conversation. Matt, I want to give you a chance to get the plug in for the company. Give the pitch if I'm a customer or prospect. Hey Couchbase I heard a little buzz. You guys got momentum going on, got good references. What's the pitch to me? >> Yeah so look, Couchbase is the only company on the planet that can make the following claim. We bring the best of NoSQL with the power and familiarity of SQL in one elegant solution from the public cloud to the edge. So let me walk through that. Our architecture was enabled for the highest performance in the world. Billions of documents. We have a customer who on a daily basis is running 8 million operations per second with less than two millisecond response time. Their business is running on Couchbase. You can't do that if you have the best data schema, the architecture for scalability, scale out, do that at high total cost of ownership. At the same time we want to bring the familiarity of programing languages that people know so that application developers don't have a big barrier to entry in deploying Couchbase. And that's where we've uniquely enabled the SQL query language for both query's, our operational analytics capability, that combination is extremely powerful. To be able to run in anyone of the public clouds, which we do via the marketplace or customers bring in their own nodes to their instances knowing that that's a changing thing per our conversation. But having a seamless integrated platform where you can run the same query in the public cloud as you can at the edge and then synchronizing that back together, that is a very powerful thing. One elegant platform we have, you know, we're a multi-model database. We can run a key-value cache, we can run a JSON database. We give you advanced querying, we give you indexing. To do that in one integrated platform no one else has thought about that and future proof their solution. Let me give you an example of how that all wraps up. One of the more innovative industries right now believe it or not, are cruise lines. And so we talk about digital transformation which is by definition customer experience. Well if you're in the cruise line business, if you're not creating a great customer experience, it's not like airline travel where you've got to get from point A to point B so you chose the best. This is I'm opting for an experience if this isn't great. so one of the most leading edge cruise lines out there has deployed Couchbase and they give every passenger a wearable. That wearable now fundamentally changes the interface between me as a passenger and the physical boat, the digital services, and the other people on the ship. And this is in a world... It's a floating device. There is no cloud, there is no cellular connections. So let's say we happen to be on the same ship. We end up at sports bar after we drop our family off, maybe we're talking databases, maybe we're talking something else. And we have beer, we have a second beer, what we don't know is that this cruise line is using our device. They know who we are, they know where we are, they're using geospatial technology back in e-commerce. They have a hypothesis that we're now friends, right? Or at least maybe we want to see each other again. Unbeknownst to us the next day we get a promotion that says 50% off at the sports bar for the next game. Wow that's great, I'm going to go. And then I run into you and it's like, "Wow, what are the chances that I run into you?" Well the chances in the old world very slim. The chances in new world very good. If I had little kids the digital content in the cabin is different. If there's a movie getting out how it navigates me around the ship is different. All of this is empowered by massive amounts of data processing, data collection and they've embedded that now in a device. Now if you're in that business and now you've got weeks worth of information on what we like, ship comes back to shore, how do you take all that information, extract it back to a cloud, improve the algorithm, start to offer different shipping option. They're literally changing the physical display of the boats to optimize customer experience. So think about that. Power of processing massive amounts of information in real time. If I'm getting a promotion and it's too late and I miss a game, does me no good. The combination of all those different data silos, right? Doing that where application developers can be agile and swift and make changes in an innovative way and stay ahead of their competition. Cloud to edge. Right? I mean that's literally a ship comes back, it goes to cloud, it enables it in this consistent... We're the only company on the planet that can do that. >> Lot of complexity involved. >> Yeah. >> Awesome. Quick plug. Are you guys hiring? What's going on with the company? What are you looking for? >> As quickly as possible. Based on our conversation earlier and your knowledge of databases, we're looking for quota carriers and engineers. So if you want to come on over we're-- >> I was thinking about the cruise ship and having a couple of beers with you watching some sports. My (mumbles) says >> Sounds like sports-- >> "Hey John's had so many beers "why don't you hit the tables?" >> Sounds like-- >> "We'll take your money." >> Sound like more a rep than an engineer. (both laughing) >> Matt, thanks for coming to theCUBE. Really appreciate it. Matt Cain, CEO of Couchbase. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)