>>Good morning and welcome back to Detroit, Michigan. My name is Savannah Peterson and I'm here on set of the cube, my co-host John Farer. How you doing this morning, John? >>Doing great. Feeling fresh. Day two of three days of coverage, feeling >>Fresh. That is that for being in the heat of the conference. I love that attitude. It's gonna >>Be a great day today. We'll see you at the end of the day. Yeah, >>Well, we'll hold him to it. All right, everyone hold 'em accountable. Very excited to start the day off with an internet, a legend as well as a cube og. We are joined this morning by Matt Klein. Matt, welcome to the show. >>Thanks for having me. Good to see you. Yep. >>It's so, what's the vibe? Day two, Everyone's buzzing. What's got you excited at the show? You've been here before, but it's been three years you >>Mentioned. I, I was saying it's been three years since I've been to a conference, so it's been interesting for me to see what is, what is the same and what is different pre and post covid. But just really great to see everyone here again and nice to not be sitting in my home by myself. >>You know, Savannah said you're an OG and we were referring before we came on camera that you were your first came on the Cub in 2017, second Cuban event. But you were, I think, on the first wave of what I call the contributor momentum, where CNCF really got the traction. Yeah. You were at Lift, Envoy was contributed and that was really hyped up and I remember that vividly. It was day zero they called it back then. Yeah. And you got so much traction. People are totally into it. Yeah. Now we've got a lot of that going on now. Right. A lot of, lot of day Zero events. They call 'em co, co-located events. You got web assembly, a lot of other hype out there. What do you see out there that you like? How would you look at some of these other Sure. Communities that are developing, What's the landscape look like as you look out? Because Envoy set the table, what is now a standard >>Practice. Yeah. What's been so interesting for me just to come here to the conference is, you know, we open source Envoy in 2016. We donated in 2017. And as you mentioned at that time, Envoy was, you know, everyone wanted to talk about Envoy. And you know, much to my amazement, Envoy is now pervasive. I mean, it's used everywhere around the world. It's like, never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined that it would be so widely used. And it's almost gotten to the point where it's become boring. You know, It's just assumed that Envoy is, is everywhere. And now we're hearing a lot about Eeb p f and Web assembly and GI ops and you know, AI and a bunch of other things. So it's, it's actually great. It's made me very happy that it's become so pervasive, but it's also fun. Yeah. We mention to, to look around all other stuff >>Like congratulate. It's just a huge accomplishment really. I think it's gonna be historic, historical moment for the industry too. But I like how it progressed. I mean, I don't mind hype cycles as long as it's some vetting. Sure. Of course. You know, use cases that are clearly defined, but you gotta get that momentum in the community, but then you start gotta get down to, to business. Yep. So, so to speak and get it deployed, get traction. Yep. What should projects look like? And, and give us the update on Envoy. Cause you guys have a, a great use case of how you got traction. Right. Take us through some of the early days of what made Envoy successful in your opinion. Great question. >>Yeah. You know, I, I think Envoy is fairly unique around this conference in the sense that Envoy was developed by Lyft, which is an end user company. And many of the projects in this ecosystem, you know, no judgment, for better or worse, they are vendor backed. And I think that's a different delivery mechanism when it's coming from an end user where you're solving a, a particular business case. So Envoy was really developed for Lyft in a, you know, very early scaling days and just, you know, trying to help Lyft solve its business problems. So I think when Envoy was developed, we were, you know, scaling, we were falling over and actually many other companies were having similar problems. So I think Envoy became very widely deployed because many companies were having similar issues. So Envoy just became pervasive among lift peer companies. And then we saw a lot of vendor uptake in the service mesh space in the API gateway space among large internet providers. So, I I I, I think it's just, it's an interesting case because I think when you're solving real problems on the ground, in some ways it's easier to actually get adoption than if you're trying to develop it from a commercial backing. >>And that's the class, I mean, almost, It's almost like open source product market fit. It is in its own way. Cause you have a problem. Absolutely. Other people have the same problem finding >>Too. I mean, it's, it's designed thinking from >>A different, When, when I talk to people about open source, I like to tell people that I do not think it's any different than starting a company. I actually think it's all the same problems finding pro product, market fit, hiring, like finding contributors and maintainers, like doing PR and marketing. Yeah. Getting team together, traction, getting, getting funding. I mean, you have to have money to do all these things. Yeah. So I think a lot of people think of open source as I, I don't know, you know, this fantastic collaborative effort and, and it is that, but there's a lot more to it. Yeah. And it is much more akin to starting a >>Company. Let's, let's just look at that for a second. Cause I think that's a good point. And I was having a conversation in the hallway two nights ago on this exact point. If the power dynamics of a startup in the open source, as you point out, is just different, it's community based. So there are things you just gotta be mindful of. It's not top down. >>Exactly. It's not like, >>Right. You know, go take that hill. It's really consensus based, but it is a startup. All those elements are in place. Absolutely. You need leadership, you gotta have debates, alignment, commit, You gotta commit to a vision. Yep. You gotta make adjustments. Build the trajectory. So based on that, I mean, do you see more end user traction? Cause I was, we were talking also about Intuit, they donated some of their tow code R goes out there. Yep. R go see the CDR goes a service. Where's the end user contributions to these days? Do you feel like it's good, still healthy? >>I, I mean, I, I'm, I'm biased. I would like to see more. I think backstage outta Spotify is absolutely fantastic. That's an area just in terms of developer portals and developer efficiency that I think has been very underserved. So seeing Backstage come outta Spotify where they've used it for years, and I think we've already seen they had a huge date, you know, day one event. And I, I think we're gonna see a lot more out of that >>Coming from, I'm an end user, pretend I'm an end user, so pretend I have some code. I want to, Oh man, I'm scared. I don't am I'm gonna lose my competitive edge. What's the, how do you talk to the enterprise out there that might be thinking about putting their project out there for whether it's the benefit of the community, developing talent, developing the product? >>Sure. Yeah. I would say that I, I would ask everyone to think through all of the pros and cons of doing that because it's not for free. I mean, doing open source is costly. It takes developer time, you know, it takes management time, it takes budgeting dollars. But the benefits if successful can be huge, right? I mean, it can be just in terms of, you know, getting people into your company, getting users, getting more features, all of that. So I would always encourage everyone to take a very pragmatic and realistic view of, of what is required to make that happen. >>What was that decision like at Lyft >>When you I I'm gonna be honest, it was very naive. I I think we've, of that we think we need to know. No, just didn't know. Yeah. I think a lot of us, myself included, had very minimal open source experience. And had we known, or had I known what would've happened, I, I still would've done it. But I, I'm gonna be honest, the last seven years have aged me what I feel like is like 70 or a hundred. It's been a >>But you say you look out in the landscape, you gotta take pride, look at what's happened. Oh, it's, I mean, it's like you said, it >>Matured fantastic. I would not trade it for anything, but it has, it has been a journey. What >>Was the biggest surprise? What was the most eye opening thing about the journey for you? >>I, I think actually just the recognition of all of the non-technical things that go into making these things a success. I think at a conference like this, people think a lot about technology. It is a technology conference, but open source is business. It really is. I mean, it, it takes money to keep it going. It takes people to keep >>It going. You gotta sell people on the concepts. >>It takes leadership to keep it going. It takes internal, it takes marketing. Yeah. So for me, what was most eyeopening is over the last five to seven years, I feel like I actually have not developed very many, if any technical skills. But my general leadership skills, you know, that would be applicable again, to running a business have applied so well to, to >>Growing off, Hey, you put it out there, you hear driving the ship. It's good to do that. They need that. It really needs it. And the results speak for itself and congratulations. Yeah. Thank you. What's the update on the project? Give us an update because you're seeing, seeing a lot of infrastructure people having the same problem. Sure. But it's also, the environments are a little bit different. Some people have different architectures. Absolutely different, more cloud, less cloud edges exploding. Yeah. Where does Envoy fit into the landscape they've seen and what's the updates? You've got some new things going on. Give the updates on what's going on with the project Sure. And then how it sits in the ecosystem vis-a-vis what people may use it for. >>Yeah. So I'm, from a core project perspective, honestly, things have matured. Things have stabilized a bit. So a lot of what we focus on now are less Big bang features, but more table stakes. We spend a lot of time on security. We spend a lot of time on software supply chain. A topic that you're probably hearing a lot about at this conference. We have a lot of software supply chain issues. We have shipped Quicken HTB three over the last year. That's generally available. That's a new internet protocol still work happening on web assembly where ha doing a lot of work on our build and release pipeline. Again, you would think that's boring. Yeah. But a lot of people want, you know, packages for their fedora or their ADU or their Docker images. And that takes a lot of effort. So a lot of what we're doing now is more table stakes, just realizing that the project is used around the world very widely. >>Yeah. The thing that I'm most interested in is, we announced in the last six months a project called Envoy Gateway, which is layered on top of Envoy. And the goal of Envoy Gateway is to make it easier for people to run Envoy within Kubernetes. So essentially as an, as an ingress controller. And Envoy is a project historically, it is a very sophisticated piece of software, very complicated piece of software. It's not for everyone. And we want to provide Envoy Gateway as a way of onboarding more users into the Envoy ecosystem and making Envoy the, the default API gateway or edge proxy within Kubernetes. But in terms of use cases, we see Envoy pervasively with service mesh, API gateway, other types of low balancing cases. I mean, honestly, it's, it's all over the place at >>This point. I'm curious because you mentioned it's expanded beyond your wildest dreams. Yeah. And how could you have even imagined what Envoy was gonna do? Is there a use case or an application that really surprised you? >>You know, I've been asked that before and I, it's hard for me to answer that. It's, it's more that, I mean, for example, Envoy is used by basically every major internet company in China. I mean, like, wow. Everyone in China uses Envoy, like TikTok, like Alibaba. I mean like everyone, all >>The large sale, >>Everyone. You know, and it's used, it's used in the, I'm just, it's not just even the us. So I, I think the thing that has surprised me more than individual use cases is just the, the worldwide adoption. You know, that something could be be everywhere. And that I think, you know, when I open my phone and I'm opening all of these apps on my phone, 80 or 90% of them are going through Envoy in some form. Yeah. You know, it's, it's just that pervasive, I blow your mind a little bit sometimes >>That does, that's why you say plumber on your Twitter handle as your title. Cause you're working on all these things that are like really important substrate issues, Right. For scale, stability, growth. >>And, you know, to, I, I guess the only thing that I would add is, my goal for Envoy has always been that it is that boring, transparent piece of technology. Kind of similar to Linux. Linux is everywhere. Right? But no one really knows that they're using Linux. It's, it's justs like Intel inside, we're not paying attention. It's just there, there's >>A core group working on, if they have pride, they understand the mission, the importance of it, and they make their job is to make it invisible. >>Right. Exactly. >>And that's really ease of use. What's some of the ease of use sways and, and simplicity that you're working on, if you can talk about that. Because to be boring, you gotta be simpler and easier. All boring complex is unique is not boring. Complex is stressful. No, >>I I think we approach it in a couple different ways. One of them is that because we view Envoy as a, as a base technology in the ecosystem, we're starting to see, you know, not only vendors, but other open source projects that are being built on top of Envoy. So things like API Gateway, sorry, Envoy Gateway or you know, projects like Istio or all the other projects that are out there. They use Envoy as a component, but in some sense Envoy is a, as a transparent piece of that system. Yeah. So I'm a big believer in the ecosystem that we need to continue to make cloud native easier for, for end users. I still think it's too complicated. And so I think we're there, we're, we're pushing up the stack a bit. >>Yeah. And that brings up a good point. When you start seeing people building on top of things, right? That's enabling. So as you look at the enablement of Envoy, what are some of the things you see out on the horizon if you got the 20 mile stare out as you check these boring boxes, make it more plumbing, Right? Stable. You'll have a disruptive enabling platform. Yeah. What do you see out there? >>I am, you know, I, again, I'm not a big buzzword person, but, so some people call it serverless functions as a service, whatever. I'm a big believer in platforms in the sense that I really believe in the next 10 to 15 years, developers, they want to provide code. You know, they want to call APIs, they want to use pub subsystems, they want to use cas and databases. And honestly, they don't care about container scheduling or networking or load balancing or any of >>These things. It's handled in the os >>They just want it to be part of the operating system. Yeah, exactly. So I, I really believe that whether it's an open source or in cloud provider, you know, package solutions, that we're going to be just moving increasingly towards systems likes Lambda and Fargate and Google Cloud Run and Azure functions and all those kinds of things. And I think that when you do that much of the functionality that has historically powered this conference like Kubernetes and Onvoy, these become critical but transparent components that people don't, they're not really aware of >>At that point. Yeah. And I think that's a great call out because one of the things we're seeing is the market forces of, of this evolution, what you just said is what has to happen Yep. For digital transformation to, to get to its conclusion. Yep. Which means that everything doesn't have to serve the business, it is the business. Right. You know it in the old days. Yep. Engineers, they serve the business. Like what does that even mean? Yep. Now, right. Developers are the business, so they need that coding environment. So for your statement to happen, that simplicity in visibility calling is invisible os has to happen. So it brings up the question in open source, the trend is things always work itself out on the wash, as we say. So when you start having these debates and the alignment has to come at some point, you can't get to those that stay without some sort of defacto or consensus. Yep. And even standards, I'm not a big be around hardcore standards, but we can all agree and have consensus Sure. That will align behind, say Kubernetes, It's Kubernetes a standard. It's not like an i e you know, but this next, what, what's your reaction to this? Because this alignment has to come after debate. So all the process contending for I am the this of that. >>Yeah. I'm a look, I mean, I totally see the value in like i e e standards and, and there's a place for that. At the same time, for me personally as a technologist, as an engineer, I prefer to let the, the market as it were sort out what are the defacto standards. So for example, at least with Envoy, Envoy has an API that we call Xds. Xds is now used beyond Envoy. It's used by gc, it's used by proprietary systems. And I'm a big believer that actually Envoy in its form is probably gonna go away before Xds goes away. So in some ways Xds has become a defacto standard. It's not an i e e standard. Yeah. We, we, we have been asked about whether we should do that. Yeah. But I just, I I think the >>It becomes a component. >>It becomes a component. Yeah. And then I think people gravitate towards these things that become de facto standards. And I guess I would rather let the people on the show floor decide what are the standards than have, you know, 10 people sitting in a room figure out >>The community define standards versus organizational institutional defined standards. >>And they both have places a >>Hundred percent. Yeah, sure. And, and there's social proof in both of them. Yep. >>Frankly, >>And we were saying on the cube that we believe that the developers will decide the standard. Sure. Because that's what you're basically saying. They're deciding what they do with their code. Right. And over time, as people realize the trade of, hey, if everyone's coding this right. And makes my life easier to get to that state of nirvana and enlightenment, as we would say. Yeah. Yeah. >>Starting strong this morning. John, I I love this. I'm curious, you mentioned Backstage by Spotify wonderful example. Do you think that this is a trend we're gonna see with more end users >>Creating open source projects? Like I, you know, I hope so. The flip side of that, and as we all know, we're entering an uncertain economic time and it can be hard to justify the effort that it takes to do it well. And what I typically counsel people when they are about to open source something is don't do it unless you're ready to commit the resources. Because opensourcing something and not supporting it. Yeah. I actually can be think, I think it'd be worse. >>It's an, it's insult that people, you're asking to commit to something. Exactly. Needs of time, need the money investment, you gotta go all in and push. >>So I, so I very much want to see it and, and I want to encourage that here, but it's hard for me to look into the crystal ball and know, you know, whether it's gonna happen more >>Or less at what point there were, are there too many projects? You know, I mean, but I'm not, I mean this in, in a, in a negative way. I mean it more in the way of, you know, you mentioned supply chain. We were riffing on the cube about at some point there's gonna be so much code open source continuing thundering away with, with the value that you're just gluing things. Right. I don't need the code, this code there. Okay. What's in the code? Okay. Maybe automation can help out on supply chain. Yeah. But ultimately composability is the new >>Right? It is. Yeah. And, and I think that's always going to be the case. Case. Good thing. It is good thing. And I, I think that's just, that's just the way of things for sure. >>So no code will be, >>I think, I think we're seeing a lot of no code situations that are working great for people. And, and, but this is actually really no different than my, than my serverless arguing from before. Just as a, as a, a slight digression. I'm building something new right now and you know, we're using cloud native technologies and all this stuff and it's still, >>What are you building? >>Even as a I'm, I'm gonna keep that, I'm gonna keep that secret. I know I'm, but >>We'll find out on Twitter. We're gonna find out now that we know it. Okay. Keep on mystery. You open that door. We're going down see in a couple weeks. >>Front >>Page is still an angle. >>But I, I was just gonna say that, you know, and I consider myself, you know, you're building something, I'm, I see myself an expert in the cloud native space. It's still difficult, It's difficult to, to pull together these technologies and I think that we will continue to make it easier for people. >>What's the biggest difficulties? Can you give us some examples? >>Well, just, I mean, we still live in a big mess of yammel, right? Is a, there's a, there's a lot of yaml out there. And I think just wrangling all of that in these systems, there's still a lot of cobbling together where I think that there can be unified platforms that make it easier for us to focus on our application logic. >>Yeah. I gotta ask you a question cuz I've talked to college kids all the time. My son's a junior in CS and he's, you know, he's coding away. What would you, how does a student or someone who's learning figure out where, who they are? Because there's now, you know, you're either into the infrastructure under the hood Yeah. Or you're, cuz that's coding there option now coding the way your infrastructure people are working on say the boring stuff so everyone else can have ease of use. And then what is just, I wanna just code, there's two types of personas. How does someone know who they are? >>My, when I give people career advice, my biggest piece of advice to them is in the first five to seven to 10 years of their career, I encourage people to do different things like every say one to two to three years. And that doesn't mean like quitting companies and changing companies, it could mean, you know, within a company that they join doing different teams, you know, working on front end versus back end. Because honestly I think people don't know. I think it's actually very, Yeah. Our industry is so broad. Yeah. That I think it's almost impossible to >>Know. You gotta get your hands dirty to jump >>In order to know what you like. And for me, in my career, you know, I've dabbled in different areas, but I've always come back to infrastructure, you know, that that's what I enjoy >>The most. Okay. You gotta, you gotta taste everything. See what you, what >>You like. Exactly. >>Right. Last question for you, Matt. It's been three years since you were here. Yep. What do you hope that we're able to say next year? That we can't say this year? Hmm. Beyond the secrets of your project, which hopefully we will definitely be discussing then. >>You know, I I, I don't have anything in particular. I would just say that I would like to see more movement towards projects that are synthesizing and making it easier to use a lot of the existing projects that we have today. So for example, I'm, I'm very bullish on backstage. Like I, I've, I've always said that we need better developer UIs that are not CLIs. Like I know it's a general perception among many people. Totally agree with you. Frankly, you're not a real systems engineer unless you type on the command line. I, I think better user interfaces are better for humans. Yep. So just for a project like Backstage to be more integrated with the rest of the projects, whether that be Envo or Kubernete or Argo or Flagger. I, I just, I think there's tremendous potential for further integration of some >>Of these projects. It just composability That makes total sense. Yep. Yep. You're, you're op you're operating and composing. >>Yep. And there's no reason that user experience can't be better. And then more people can create and build. So I think it's awesome. Matt, thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, this has been fantastic. Be sure and check out Matt on Twitter to find out what that next secret project is. John, thank you for joining me this morning. My name is Savannah Peterson and we'll be here all day live from the cube. We hope you'll be joining us throughout the evening until a happy hour today. Thanks for coming. Thanks for coming. Thanks for watching.

>>Keon Cloud Native Con kicks off in Detroit on October 24th, and we're pleased to have Stewart Miniman, who's the director of Market Insights, hi, at, for hybrid platforms at Red Hat back in the studio to help us understand the key trends to look for at the events. Do welcome back, like old, old, old >>Home. Thank you, David. It's great to, great to see you and always love doing these previews, even though Dave, come on. How many years have I told you Cloud native con, It's a hoodie crowd. They're gonna totally call you out for where in a tie and things like that. I, I know you want to be an ESPN sportscaster, but you know, I I, I, I still don't think even after, you know, this show's been around for so many years that there's gonna be too many ties into Troy. I >>Know I left the hoodie in my off, I'm sorry folks, but hey, we'll just have to go for it. Okay. Containers generally, and Kubernetes specifically continue to show very strong spending momentum in the ETR survey data. So let's bring up this slide that shows the ETR sectors, all the sectors in the tax taxonomy with net score or spending velocity in the vertical axis and pervasiveness on the horizontal axis. Now, that red dotted line that you see, that marks the elevated 40% mark, anything above that is considered highly elevated in terms of momentum. Now, for years, the big four areas of momentum that shine above all the rest have been cloud containers, rpa, and ML slash ai for the first time in 10 quarters, ML and AI and RPA have dropped below the 40% line, leaving only cloud and containers in rarefied air. Now, Stu, I'm sure this data doesn't surprise you, but what do you make of this? >>Yeah, well, well, Dave, I, I did an interview with at Deepak who owns all the container and open source activity at Amazon earlier this year, and his comment was, the default deployment mechanism in Amazon is containers. So when I look at your data and I see containers and cloud going in sync, yeah, that, that's, that's how we see things. We're helping lots of customers in their overall adoption. And this cloud native ecosystem is still, you know, we're still in that Cambridge explosion of new projects, new opportunities, AI's a great workload for these type type of technologies. So it's really becoming pervasive in the marketplace. >>And, and I feel like the cloud and containers go hand in hand, so it's not surprising to see those two above >>The 40%. You know, there, there's nothing to say that, Look, can I run my containers in my data center and not do the public cloud? Sure. But in the public cloud, the default is the container. And one of the hot discussions we've been having in this ecosystem for a number of years is edge computing. And of course, you know, I want something that that's small and lightweight and can do things really fast. A lot of times it's an AI workload out there, and containers is a great fit at the edge too. So wherever it goes, containers is a good fit, which has been keeping my group at Red Hat pretty busy. >>So let's talk about some of those high level stats that we put together and preview for the event. So it's really around the adoption of open source software and Kubernetes. Here's, you know, a few fun facts. So according to the state of enterprise open source report, which was published by Red Hat, although it was based on a blind survey, nobody knew that that Red Hat was, you know, initiating it. 80% of IT execs expect to increase their use of enterprise open source software. Now, the CNCF community has currently more than 120,000 developers. That's insane when you think about that developer resource. 73% of organizations in the most recent CNCF annual survey are using Kubernetes. Now, despite the momentum, according to that same Red Hat survey, adoption barriers remain for some organizations. Stu, I'd love you to talk about this specifically around skill sets, and then we've highlighted some of the other trends that we expect to see at the event around Stu. I'd love to, again, your, get your thoughts on the preview. You've done a number of these events, automation, security, governance, governance at scale, edge deployments, which you just mentioned among others. Now Kubernetes is eight years old, and I always hear people talking about there's something coming beyond Kubernetes, but it looks like we're just getting started. Yeah, >>Dave, It, it is still relatively early days. The CMC F survey, I think said, you know, 96% of companies when they, when CMC F surveyed them last year, were either deploying Kubernetes or had plans to deploy it. But when I talked to enterprises, nobody has said like, Hey, we've got every group on board and all of our applications are on. It is a multi-year journey for most companies and plenty of them. If you, you look at the general adoption of technology, we're still working through kind of that early majority. We, you know, passed the, the chasm a couple of years ago. But to a point, you and I we're talking about this ecosystem, there are plenty of people in this ecosystem that could care less about containers and Kubernetes. Lots of conversations at this show won't even talk about Kubernetes. You've got, you know, big security group that's in there. >>You've got, you know, certain workloads like we talked about, you know, AI and ml and that are in there. And automation absolutely is playing a, a good role in what's going on here. So in some ways, Kubernetes kind of takes a, a backseat because it is table stakes at this point. So lots of people involved in it, lots of activities still going on. I mean, we're still at a cadence of three times a year now. We slowed it down from four times a year as an industry, but there's, there's still lots of innovation happening, lots of adoption, and oh my gosh, Dave, I mean, there's just no shortage of new projects and new people getting involved. And what's phenomenal about it is there's, you know, end user practitioners that aren't just contributing. But many of the projects were spawned out of work by the likes of Intuit and Spotify and, and many others that created some of the projects that sit alongside or above the, the, you know, the container orchestration itself. >>So before we talked about some of that, it's, it's kind of interesting. It's like Kubernetes is the big dog, right? And it's, it's kind of maturing after, you know, eight years, but it's still important. I wanna share another data point that underscores the traction that containers generally are getting in Kubernetes specifically have, So this is data from the latest ETR survey and shows the spending breakdown for Kubernetes in the ETR data set for it's cut for respondents with 50 or more citations in, in by the IT practitioners that lime green is new adoptions, the forest green is spending 6% or more relative to last year. The gray is flat spending year on year, and those little pink bars, that's 6% or down spending, and the bright red is retirements. So they're leaving the platform. And the blue dots are net score, which is derived by subtracting the reds from the greens. And the yellow dots are pervasiveness in the survey relative to the sector. So the big takeaway here is that there is virtually no red, essentially zero churn across all sectors, large companies, public companies, private firms, telcos, finance, insurance, et cetera. So again, sometimes I hear this things beyond Kubernetes, you've mentioned several, but it feels like Kubernetes is still a driving force, but a lot of other projects around Kubernetes, which we're gonna hear about at the show. >>Yeah. So, so, so Dave, right? First of all, there was for a number of years, like, oh wait, you know, don't waste your time on, on containers because serverless is gonna rule the world. Well, serverless is now a little bit of a broader term. Can I do a serverless viewpoint for my developers that they don't need to think about the infrastructure but still have containers underneath it? Absolutely. So our friends at Amazon have a solution called Fargate, their proprietary offering to kind of hide that piece of it. And in the open source world, there's a project called Can Native, I think it's the second or third can Native Con's gonna happen at the cncf. And even if you use this, I can still call things over on Lambda and use some of those functions. So we know Dave, it is additive and nothing ever dominates the entire world and nothing ever dies. >>So we have, we have a long runway of activities still to go on in containers and Kubernetes. We're always looking for what that next thing is. And what's great about this ecosystem is most of it tends to be additive and plug into the pieces there, there's certain tools that, you know, span beyond what can happen in the container world and aren't limited to it. And there's others that are specific for it. And to talk about the industries, Dave, you know, I love, we we have, we have a community event that we run that's gonna happen at Cubans called OpenShift Commons. And when you look at like, who's speaking there? Oh, we've got, you know, for Lockheed Martin, University of Michigan and I g Bank all speaking there. So you look and it's like, okay, cool, I've got automotive, I've got, you know, public sector, I've got, you know, university education and I've got finance. So all of you know, there is not an industry that is not touched by this. And the general wave of software adoption is the reason why, you know, not just adoption, but the creation of new software is one of the differentiators for companies. And that is what, that's the reason why I do containers, isn't because it's some cool technology and Kubernetes is great to put on my resume, but that it can actually accelerate my developers and help me create technology that makes me respond to my business and my ultimate end users. Well, >>And you know, as you know, we've been talking about the Supercloud a lot and the Kubernetes is clearly enabler to, to Supercloud, but I wanted to go back, you and John Furrier have done so many of, you know, the, the cube cons, but but go back to Docker con before Kubernetes was even a thing. And so you sort of saw this, you know, grow. I think there's what, how many projects are in CNCF now? I mean, hundreds. Hundreds, okay. And so you're, Will we hear things in Detroit, things like, you know, new projects like, you know, Argo and capabilities around SI store and things like that? Well, you're gonna hear a lot about that. Or is it just too much to cover? >>So I, I mean the, the good news, Dave, is that the CNCF really is, is a good steward for this community and new things got in get in. So there's so much going on with the existing projects that some of the new ones sometimes have a little bit of a harder time making a little bit of buzz. One of the more interesting ones is a project that's been around for a while that I think back to the first couple of Cube Cuban that John and I did service Mesh and Istio, which was created by Google, but lived under basically a, I guess you would say a Google dominated governance for a number of years is now finally under the CNCF Foundation. So I talked to a number of companies over the years and definitely many of the contributors over the years that didn't love that it was a Google Run thing, and now it is finally part. >>So just like Kubernetes is, we have SEO and also can Native that I mentioned before also came outta Google and those are all in the cncf. So will there be new projects? Yes. The CNCF is sometimes they, they do matchmaking. So in some of the observability space, there were a couple of projects that they said, Hey, maybe you can go merge down the road. And they ended up doing that. So there's still you, you look at all these projects and if I was an end user saying, Oh my God, there is so much change and so many projects, you know, I can't spend the time in the effort to learn about all of these. And that's one of the challenges and something obviously at Red Hat, we spend a lot of time figuring out, you know, not to make winners, but which are the things that customers need, Where can we help make them run in production for our, our customers and, and help bring some stability and a little bit of security for the overall ecosystem. >>Well, speaking of security, security and, and skill sets, we've talked about those two things and they sort of go hand in hand when I go to security events. I mean, we're at reinforced last summer, we were just recently at the CrowdStrike event. A lot of the discussion is sort of best practice because it's so complicated. And, and, and will you, I presume you're gonna hear a lot of that here because security securing containers now, you know, the whole shift left thing and shield right is, is a complicated matter, especially when you saw with the earlier data from the Red Hat survey, the the gaps are around skill sets. People don't have the skill. So should we expect to hear a lot about that, A lot of sort of how to, how to take advantage of some of these new capabilities? >>Yeah, Dave, absolutely. So, you know, one of the conversations going on in the community right now is, you know, has DevOps maybe played out as we expect to see it? There's a newer term called platform engineering, and how much do I need to do there? Something that I, I know your, your team's written a lot about Dave, is how much do you need to know versus what can you shift to just a platform or a service that I can consume? I've talked a number of times with you since I've been at Red Hat about the cloud services that we offer. So you want to use our offering in the public cloud. Our first recommendation is, hey, we've got cloud services, how much Kubernetes do you really want to learn versus you want to do what you can build on top of it, modernize the pieces and have less running the plumbing and electric and more, you know, taking advantage of the, the technologies there. So that's a big thing we've seen, you know, we've got a big SRE team that can manage that for use so that you have to spend less time worrying about what really is un differentiated heavy lifting and spend more time on what's important to your business and your >>Customers. So, and that's, and that's through a managed service. >>Yeah, absolutely. >>That whole space is just taken off. All right, Stu I'll give you the final word. You know, what are you excited about for, for, for this upcoming event and Detroit? Interesting choice of venue? Yeah, >>Look, first of off, easy flight. I've, I've never been to Detroit, so I'm, I'm willing to give it a shot and hopefully, you know, that awesome airport. There's some, some, some good things there to learn. The show itself is really a choose your own adventure because there's so much going on. The main show of QAN and cloud Native Con is Wednesday through Friday, but a lot of a really interesting stuff happens on Monday and Tuesday. So we talked about things like OpenShift Commons in the security space. There's cloud Native Security Day, which is actually two days and a SIG store event. There, there's a get up show, there's, you know, k native day. There's so many things that if you want to go deep on a topic, you can go spend like a workshop in some of those you can get hands on to. And then at the show itself, there's so much, and again, you can learn from your peers. >>So it was good to see we had, during the pandemic, it tilted a little bit more vendor heavy because I think most practitioners were pretty busy focused on what they could work on and less, okay, hey, I'm gonna put together a presentation and maybe I'm restricted at going to a show. Yeah, not, we definitely saw that last year when I went to LA I was disappointed how few customer sessions there were. It, it's back when I go look through the schedule now there's way more end users sharing their stories and it, it's phenomenal to see that. And the hallway track, Dave, I didn't go to Valencia, but I hear it was really hopping felt way more like it was pre pandemic. And while there's a few people that probably won't come because Detroit, we think there's, what we've heard and what I've heard from the CNCF team is they are expecting a sizable group up there. I know a lot of the hotels right near the, where it's being held are all sold out. So it should be, should be a lot of fun. Good thing I'm speaking on an edge panel. First time I get to be a speaker at the show, Dave, it's kind of interesting to be a little bit of a different role at the show. >>So yeah, Detroit's super convenient, as I said. Awesome. Airports too. Good luck at the show. So it's a full week. The cube will be there for three days, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Thanks for coming. >>Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, sorry, >>Wednesday, Thursday, Friday is the cube, right? So thank you for that. >>And, and no ties from the host, >>No ties, only hoodies. All right Stu, thanks. Appreciate you coming in. Awesome. And thank you for watching this preview of CubeCon plus cloud Native Con with at Stu, which again starts the 24th of October, three days of broadcasting. Go to the cube.net and you can see all the action. We'll see you there.

>>Hello, everybody. Welcome to Von 2022, the live version. Yes, we're finally back live. Last time we did Von was 2019 live. Of course we did two subsequent years, uh, virtual. My name is Dave Valante and we've got two days of wall to wall coverage of VEON. As usual Veeam has brought together a number of customers, but it's really doing something different this year. Like many, uh, companies that you see, they have a big hybrid event. It's close to 40,000 people online and that's sort of driving the actual program where the content is actually different for the, the, the virtual viewers versus the onsite onsite. There's the, the V I P event going on, they got the keynotes. VM is a company who's a ancy occurred during the, the VMware rise. They brought in a new way of doing data protection. They didn't use agents. They, they protected at the hypervisor level. >>That changed the way that people did things. They're now doing it again in cloud, in SAS, in containers and ransomware. And so we're gonna dig into that. My cohost is Dave Nicholson this week, and we've got a special guest Zs Carava who is the principal at ZK research. He's an extraordinary analyst Zs. Great to see you, David. Thanks for coming out. Absolutely good to see you Beon. Great to be here. Yeah, we've done. Von act, live things have changed so dramatically. Uh, I mean the focus ransomware, it's now a whole new Tam, uh, the adjacency to security data protection. It's just a Zs. It's a whole new ballgame, isn't it? >>Well, it is. And, and in fact, um, during the keynote, they, they mentioned that they've, they're now tied at number one in, for, you know, back of a recovery, which is, I think it's safe to say Veeam. Does that really well? >>I think from a that's tied with Dell. Yes. Right. They didn't, I don't think they met Dell as >>Keto. And, uh, but I, you know, they've been rising Dell, EMC's been falling. And so I think >>It's somebody said 10 points that Dell lost and sharing the I data. >>It's not a big surprise. I mean, they haven't really invested a whole lot, >>I think anyway, >>Anyways, but I think from a Veeam perspective, the question is now that they've kind of hit that number one spot or close to it, what do they do next? This company, they mentioned, I was talking the CTO yesterday. You mentioned they're holding X bite of customer data. That is a lot of data. Right. And so they, they do back recovery really well. They do it arguably better than anybody. And so how do they take that data and then move into other adjacent markets to go create, not just a back recovery company, but a true data management platform company that has relevancy in cyber and analytics and artificial intelligence and data warehousing. Right? All those other areas I think are, are really open territory for this company right now. >>You know, Dave, you were a CTO at, at EMC when you, when you saw a lot of the acquisitions that the company made, uh, you, you know, they really never had a singular focus on data protection. They had a big data protection business, but that's the differentiator with Veeam. That's all it does. And you see that shine through from a, from a CTO's perspective. How do you see this market changing, evolving? And what's your sense as to how Vema is doing here? >>I think a lot of it's being driven by kind of, uh, unfortunately evil genius, uh, out in the market space. Yeah. I know we're gonna be hearing a lot about ransomware, uh, a lot about some concepts that we didn't really talk about outside of maybe the defense industry, air gaping, logical air gaping, um, Zs, you mentioned, you know, this, this, this question of what do you do when you have so many petabytes of data under management exabytes now exabytes, I'm sorry. Yeah, I see there I'm I'm already falling behind. One thing you could do is you could encrypt it all and then ask for Bitcoin in exchange for access to that data. >>Yes. That is what happens a >>Lot of them. So we're, we're getting, we're getting so much of the evil genius stuff headed our way. You start, you start thinking in those ways, but yet to, to your point, uh, dedicated backup products, don't address the scale and scope and variety of threats, not just from operational, uh, uh, you know, mishaps, uh, but now from so many bad actors coming in from the outside, it it's a whole new world. >>See us as analysts. We get inundated with ransomware solutions. Everybody's talking about it across the spectrum. The thing that interested me about what's happening here at VEON is they're, they're sort of trotting out this study that they do Veeam does some serious research, you know, thousands of customers that got hit by ransomware that they dug into. And then a, a larger study of all companies, many of whom didn't realize or said they hadn't been hit by ransomware, but they're really trying to inject thought leadership into the equation. You saw some of that in the analyst session this morning, it's now public. Uh, so we could talk about it. What were your thoughts on that data? >>Yeah, that was, uh, really fascinating data cuz it shows the ransomware industry, the response to it is largely reactive, right? We wait to get breach. We wait to, to uh, to get held at ransom I suppose. And then we, a lot of companies paid out. In fact, I thought there's one hospital in Florida, they're buying lots and lots of Bitcoin simply to pay out ransomware attacks. They didn't even really argue with them. They just pay it out. And I think Veeam's trying to change that mentality a little bit. You know, if you have the right strategy in place to be more preventative, you can do that. You can protect your data and then restore it right when you want to. So you don't have to be in that big bucket of companies that frankly pay and actually don't get their data back. Right. >>And like a third, I think roughly >>It's shocking amount of companies that get hit by that. And for a lot of companies, that's the end of their business. >>You know, a lot of the recovery process is manual is again a technologist. You understand that that's not the ideal way to go. In fact, it's probably a, a way to fail. >>Well, recovery's always the problem when I was in corporate, it used to joke that we were the best at backup, terrible at recovery. Well, you know, that's not atypical. >>My Fred Fred Moore, who was the vice president of strategy at a company called storage tech storage technology, corpor of storage tech. He had a great, uh, saying, he said, backup is one thing. Recovery is everything. And he started, he said that 30 years ago, but, but orchestration and automating that orchestration is, is really vital. We saw in the study, a lot of organizations are using scripts and scripts are fragile here they break. Right? >>Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, unfortunately the idea of the red run book on the shelf is still with us. Uh, uh, you know, scripting does not equal automation necessarily in every case, there's still gonna be a lot of manual steps in the process. Um, but you know, what I hope we get to talk about during the next couple of days is, you know, some of the factors that go into this, we've got day zero exploits that have already been uncovered that are stockpiled, uh, and tucked away. And it's inevitable that they're gonna hit. Yeah. So whether it's a manual recovery process or some level of automation, um, if you don't have something that is air gapped and cut off from the rest of the world in a physical or logical way, you can't guarantee >>That the, the problem with manual processes and scripting is even if you can set it up today, the environment changes so fast, right? With shadow it and business units buying their own services and users storing things and you know, wherever, um, you, you can't keep up with scripts in manual. Automation must be the way and I've been, and I don't care what part of it. You work in, whether it's this area in networking, communications, whatever automation must be the way I think prior to the pandemic, I saw a lot of resistance from it pros in the area of mission. Since the pandemic, I've seen a lot of warming up to it because I think it pros, I just realized they can't do their job without it. So, so you >>Don't, you don't think that edge devices, uh, lend themselves to manual >>Recovery, no process. In fact, I think that's one of the things they didn't talk about. What's that is, is edge. Edge is gonna be huge. More, every retailer, I talk to oil and gas, company's been using it for a long time. I've, you know, manufacturing organizations are looking at edge as a way to put more data in more places to improve experiences. Cuz you're moving the data closer, but we're creating a world where the fragmentation of data, you think it's bad now just wait a couple of years until the edge is a little more, you know, uh, to life here. And I think you ain't see nothing yet. This is this world of data. Everywhere is truly becoming that. And the thing with edge is there's no one definition, edge, you got IOT edge cellular edge, campus edge, right? Um, you know, you look at hotels, they have their own edge. I talked to major league baseball, right? They have every, stadium's got its own edge server in it. So we're moving into a world. We're putting more data in more places it's more fragmented than ever. And we need better ways of managing Of securing that data. But then also being able to recover for when >>Things happen. I was having that Danny Allen, he used the term that we coined called super cloud. He used that in the analyst meeting today. And, and that's a metaphor for this new layer of cloud. That's developing to your point, whether it's on-prem in a hybrid across clouds, not just running on the cloud, but actually abstracting away the complexity of the underlying primitives and APIs. And then eventually to your point, going out to the edge, I don't know if anyone who has an aggressive edge strategy Veeam to its credit, you know, has gone well beyond just virtualization and gone to bare metal into cloud. They were the containers. There was first at SAS. They acquired Caston who was a partner of theirs and they tried to acquire them earlier, but there was some government things and you know, that whole thing that got cleaned up and now they've, they own Caston. And I think the edge is next. I mean, it's gotta be, there's gonna be so much data at the edge. I guess the question is where is it today? How much of that is actually persisted? How much goes back to the cloud? I don't think people really have a good answer for that yet. >>No. In fact, a lot of edge services will be very ephemeral in nature. So it's not like with cloud where we'll take data and we'll store it there forever with the edge, we're gonna take data, we'll store it there for the time, point in time we need it. But I think one of the interesting things about Veeam is because they're decoupled from the airline hardware, they can run virtual machines and containers, porting Veeam to whatever platform you have next actually isn't all that difficult. Right? And so then if you need to be able to go back to a certain point in time, they can do that instantly. It's, it's a fascinating way to do backup. Are >>You you' point about it? I mean, you remember the signs up and down, you know, near the EMC facility, right outside of Southborough no hardware agenda that that was Jeremy Burton when he was running Verto of course they've got a little hardware agenda. So, but Veeam doesn't Veeam is, you know, they they're friendly with all the hardware players of pure play software, couple other stats on them. So they're a billion dollar company. They've now started to talk about their ARR growth. They grew, uh, 27% last year in, in, in annual recurring revenue, uh, 25%, uh, in the most recent quarter. And so they're in, in the vast majority of their business is subscription. I think they said, uh, 73% is now subscription based. So they really trans transitioned that business. The other thing about vem is they they've come up with a licensing model that's very friendly. >>Um, and they sort of removed that friction early on in the process. I remember talking to TIR about this. He said, we are gonna incent our partners and make it transparent to them, whether it's, you know, that when we shift from, you know, the, the, the, the crack of, of perpetual license to a subscription model, we're gonna make that transparent to partners. We'll take care of that. Essentially. They funded that transition. So that's worked very well. So they do stand out, I think from some of the larger companies at these big portfolios, although the big portfolio companies, you know, they get board level contacts and they can elbow their ways in your thoughts on that sort of selling dynamic. >>So navigating that transition to a subscription model is always fraught with danger. Everybody wants you to be there, but they want you to be there now. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, they don't like the transition that happens over 1824 months to get there. Um, >>As a private company, they're somewhat shielded from what they would've been if they were appli. Sure, >>Exactly. But, but that, but that bodes well from a, from a, a Veeam perspective. Um, the other interesting thing is that they sit where customers sit today in the real world, a hybrid world, not everything is in the cloud or a single cloud, uh, still a lot of on-prem things to take care of. And, >>And there will be for >>A long time exactly. Back to this idea. Yeah. There's a very long tail on that. So it's, it's, it's well enough to have a niche product that addresses a certain segment of the market, but to be able to go in and say all data everywhere, it doesn't matter where it lives. We have you covered. Um, that's a powerful message. And we were talking earlier. I think they, they stand a really good shot at taking market share, you know, on an ongoing basis. >>Yeah. The interesting thing about this market, Dave is they're, you know, although, you know, they're tied to number one with Dell now, they're, it's 12%, right? This reminds me of the security industry five, six years ago, where it's so fragmented. There's so many vendors, no one really stood out right. Then what happened in security? It's a little company called Palo Alto networks came around, they created a platform story. They moved into adjacent markets like SDWAN, they did a lot of smart acquisitions and they took off. I think vem is at that similar point where they've now, you know, that 12% number they've got some capital. Now they could go do some acquisitions that they want do. There's lots of adjacent markets as they talk about this company could be the Palo Alto of the data management market, if you know, and based on good execution. But there's certainly the opportunities there with all the data that they're holding. >>That's a really interesting point. I wanna stay that in a second. So there's obviously, there's, there's backup, there's recovery, there's data protection, there's ransomware protection, there's SAS data protection. And now all of a sudden you're seeing even a company like Rubrik is kind of repositioning as a security play. Yeah. Which I'm not sure that's the right move for a company that's really been focused on, on backup to really dive into that fragmented market. But it's clearly an adjacency and we heard Anan the new CEO today in the analyst segment, you know, we asked him, what's your kinda legacy gonna look like? And he said, I want to, I want to, defragment this market he's looking at. Yeah. He wants 25 to 45% of the market, which I think is really ambitious. I love that goal now to your point, agree, he, he sure. But that doubles yeah. >>From today or more, and he gets there to your point, possibly through acquisitions, they've made some really interesting tuck-ins with Castin. They certainly bought an AWS, uh, cloud play years ago. But my, my so, uh, Veeam was purchased by, uh, private equity inside capital inside capital in January of 2020, just before COVID for 5 billion. And at the time, then COVID hit right after you were like uhoh. And then of course the market took off so great acquisition by insight. But I think an IPO is in their future and that's, uh, Zs when they can start picking up some of these adjacent markets through every day. >>And I think one of the challenges for them is now that the Holden XAB bited data, they need to be able to tell customers things they, the customer doesn't know. Right. And that's where a lot of the work they're doing in artificial intelligence machine learning comes into play. Right. And, and nobody does that better than AWS, right? AWS is always looking at your data and telling you things you don't know, which makes you buy more. And so I think from a Veeam perspective, they need to now take all this, this huge asset they have and, and find a way to monetize it. And that's by revealing these key insights to customers that the customers don't even know they have. And >>They've got that monitor monitoring layer. Um, it's if you called it, Danny, didn't like to use the term, but he called it an AI. It's really machine learning that monitors. And then I think makes recommendations. I want to dig into that a little bit with it. >>Well, you can see the platform story starting to build here. Right. And >>Here's a really good point. Yeah. Because they really have been historically a point product company. This notion of super cloud is really a platform play. >>Right. And if you look in the software industry, look across any, any segment of the software industry, those companies that were niche that became big became platforms, Salesforce, SAP, Oracle. Right. And, and they find a way to allow others to build on their platform. You know, companies, they think like a Citrix, they never did that. Yeah. And they kind of taped, you know, petered out at a certain level of growth and had to, you know, change. They're still changing their business model, in fact. But I think that's Veeam's at that inflection point, right. They either build a platform story, enable others to do more on their platform or they stagnate >>HP software is another good example. They never were able to get that platform. And we're not able bunch of spoke with it, a non used to work there. Why is it so important Dave, to have a platform over a product? >>Well, cynical, Dave says, uh, you have a platform because it attracts investment and it makes you look cooler than maybe you really are. Um, but, uh, but really for longevity, you have, you, you, you have to be a platform. So what's >>The difference. How do you know when you have platform versus it? APIs? Is it, yeah. Brett, is it ecosystem? >>Some of it is. Some of it is semantics. Look at when, when I'm worried about my critical assets, my data, um, I think of a platform, a portfolio of point solutions for backing up edge data stuff. That's in the cloud stuff that exists in SAS. I see that holistically. And I think guys, you're doing enough. This is good. Don't, don't dilute your efforts. Just keep focusing on making sure that you can back up my data wherever it lives and we'll both win together. So whenever I hear a platform, I get a little bit, a little bit sketchy, >>Well platform, beats products, doesn't >>It? Yeah. To me, it's a last word. You said ecosystem. Yes. When you think of the big platform players, everybody B in the customer, uh, experience space builds to build for Salesforce. First, if you're a small security vendor, you build for Palo Alto first, right? Right. If you're in the database, you build for Oracle first and when you're that de facto platform, you create an ecosystem around you that you no longer have to fund and build yourself. It just becomes self-fulfilling. And that drives a level of stickiness that can't be replicated through product. >>Well, look at the ecosystem that, that these guys are forming. I mean, it's clear. Yeah. So are they becoming in your view >>Of platform? I think they are becoming a platform and I think that's one of the reasons they brought on and in, I think he's got some good experience doing that. You could argue that ring kind of became that. Right. The, when, you know, when he was ring central. >>Yeah. >>Yeah. And, uh, so I think some, some of his experiences and then moving into adjacencies, I think is really the reason they brought him in to lead this company to the next level. >>Excellent guys, thanks so much for setting up VEON 20, 22, 2 days of coverage on the cube. We're here at the area. It's a, it's a great venue. I >>Love the area. >>Yeah. It's nice. It's a nice intimate spot. A lot of customers here. Of course, there's gonna be a big Veeam party. They're famous for their parties, but, uh, we'll, we'll be here to cover it and, uh, keep it right there. We'll be back with the next segment. You're watching the cube VEON 20, 22 from Las Vegas.

>> Welcome back to theCUBE's covering of AWS Public Sector Summit. In-person here in Washington, DC. I'm John Furrier, your host, great to be back face to face. We've got a great, special guest Clint Crosier, who is the Director of AWS' Aerospace & Satellite. Major General of The Air Force/Space Force. Retired. Great to see you in person again. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me. I appreciate that. >> First of all, props to you for doing a great job at Amazon, bringing all your knowledge from Space Force and Air Force into the cloud. >> Thank you. >> So that's great, historical context. >> It's been valuable and it's provided a whole lot of insight into what we're building with the AWS space team, for sure. >> So number one question I get a lot is: We want more space content. What's the coolest thing going on in space? Is there a really a satellite behind the moon there, hidden there somewhere? What's the coolest thing going on in space? >> Well, the coolest thing that's going on in space, I think is you're seeing the rapid growth of the space industry, I mean, to me. I've been in the space industry for 34 years now, and there have been periods where we projected lots of growth and activity and it just didn't really come about, especially in the 80's and the 90's. But what we're seeing today is that growth is taking place. Whether it's the numbers of satellites that are being launched around the globe every year, there's some 3,000 objects on orbit today. Estimates are that there'll be 30,000 objects at the end of the decade, or the number of new companies, or the number of global spinning. It is just happening right now, and it's really exciting. >> So, when people say or hear space, there's a lot of economic changes in terms of the cost structures of how to get things deployed into space. That brings up the question of: Is space an opportunity? Is it a threat vector? What about congestion and security? >> Yeah, well three great things, absolutely an opportunity. We're seeing the rapid growth of the space industry, and we're seeing more commercialization than ever before. In my whole career, The Air Force or, NASA, or the NRO would sort of, hold things and do them themselves Today, you're seeing commercial contracts going out from the National Reconnaissance Office, NASA, from The Air Force, from the Space Force. So lots of opportunity for commercial companies. Security. Absolutely, priority number one should be security is baked into everything we do at AWS. And our customers, our Government classified customers tell us the reason they came to AWS is our security is top notch and certified for all their workloads. And as you well know, we have from unclassified all the way up to top secret capabilities on the AWS cloud. So just powerful opportunities for our customers. >> Yeah. And a lot of competitors will throw foot on that. I know, I've reported on some of that and not a lot of people have that same credential. >> Sure. >> Compared to the competition. >> Sure. >> Now I have to ask you, now that you have the top secret, all these clouds that are very tailorable, flexible with space: How are you helping customers with this Aerospace Division? Is it is a commercial? In the public sector together? What's the... >> All of the above. >> Take us through the value proposition. >> Yeah, happy to do this. So what we recognized over the last two years or so we, at AWS, recognized all this rapid growth that we're talking about within the space industry. Every sector from launch to on-orbit activities, to space exploration, all of it. And so AWS saw that and we looked at ourselves and said: "Do we have the right organization and expertise in place really to help our customers lean into that?" And the answer was: we decided to build a team that had deep experience in space, and that was the team that we grew because our thesis was: If you have a deep experience in space, a deep experience in cloud, you bring those two together and it's a powerful contribution. And so we've assembled a team with more than 500 years of collective hands-on experience, flying satellites, launching rockets. And when we sit down with our customers to innovate on their behalf, we're able to come up with some incredible solutions and I'm happy to talk about those. >> I'd love to, but tell you what, first of all, there's a lot of space nerds out there. I love space. I love space geeking out on the technology, but take us through the year you had, you've had a pretty incredible year with some results. You have that brain trust there. I know you're hiring. I know that people want to work for you. I'm sure the resumes are flying in, a lot of action. >> There is. >> What are the highlights from this year? >> So the highlights I think is, we've built a team that the industry is telling us was needed. Again, there was no organization that really served the space cloud industry. And so we're kind of building this industry within the industry, the space cloud industry. And so number one, just establishing that team and leaning into that industry has been valuable. The other thing that we're real proud of is we built a global team, because space is a global enterprise. We have teams in Europe and in Asia and South America here in the U.S., so we built a global team. One of the things that we did right up front, we weren't even six months old, when we envisioned the idea of doing the AWS Space Accelerator. And some of the folks told me: "Clint, six months under your belt, maybe you ought to get your feet under you." And I said: "No, no. We move fast to support our customers." And so we made a call for any space startup that wanted to come on board with AWS and go through our four week Space Accelerator. We partnered with Sarah from Capital. And the idea was: if you're a small company that wants to grow and build and learn how you can use the cloud to gain competitive advantage, come with us. And so John, I would have been happy if we had 50 companies applied, we had 194 companies across 44 countries that applied to our accelerator. We had to down select a 10, but that was a tremendous accomplishment, two of those are speaking this afternoon, where they met each other at our accelerator and now have formed a partnership: Ursa Space and HawkEye 360 on how they build on the cloud together. Fascinating. >> Well, I love that story. First of all, I love the military mindset. No, we're not going to wait. >> Move it out. >> It's not take that hill, it's take that planet. >> Our customers won't wait, innovation, doesn't wait, the future doesn't wait. We have to move out. >> So, this brings up the entrepreneurship angle. We got there a little early, but I want to talk about it because it's super important. There's an entrepreneurial culture happening right now in the space community >> There is. At large, and it's getting bigger and wider. >> Bigger every day. >> What is that? What if someone says: "Hey, what's going on with entrepreneurship in this space? What are the key dynamics? What's the power dynamics?" It's not money, there's money out there, but like what's the structural thing happening? >> The key dynamic, I think, is we're seeing that we can unlock things that we could never do before. And one of our goals is: the more space data we can make more accessible to more people around the world. It unlocks things we couldn't do. We're working with space companies who are using space data to track endangered whales off the coast of California. We're working with companies that are using space data to measure thermal and greenhouse emissions for climate change and climate management. We're working with one company, Edgybees, who has a small satellite constellation, and they're using it to build satellite based, augmented reality, to provide it to first responders as they go into a disaster response area. And they get a 3D-view of what they're going into. None of those workloads were possible five years ago. And the cloud and cloud-based technologies are really what opens those kinds of workloads up. >> What kind of higher level services do you see emerging from space cloud? Because you know, obviously you have to have some infrastructure. >> Absolutely. Got to put some stuff into space. That's a supply chain, reliability, also threat. I mean, I can have a satellite attack, another satellite, or I'm just making that up, but I'm sure there's other scenarios that the generals are thinking about. >> So space security and cyberspace security is critical. And as I said, it's built into everything we do in all of our platforms, so you're absolutely right about that, but when we think about the entrepreneurship, you know, what we're seeing is, and I'll give you a good example of why the industry is growing so fast and why cloud. So one company we work with, LeoLabs. So Leo identified the growth in the LEO: Low Earth Orbit segment. 3,000 objects on orbit today, 30,000 tomorrow. Who's going to do the space traffic management for 30,000 objects in space that are all in the same orbital regime? And so LeoLabs built a process to do space traffic management, collision avoidance. They were running it on premises. It took them eight hours to do a single run for a single satellite conjunction. We got them to help understand how to use the cloud. They moved all that to AWS. Now that same run they do in 10 seconds. Eight hours to 10 seconds. Those are the kind of workloads as space proliferates in and we grow, that we just can't execute without cloud and cloud-based technologies. >> It's interesting, you know, the cloud has that same kind of line: move your workloads to the cloud and then refactor. >> Yeah. So space workloads are coming to the cloud. >> They are. >> Just changing the culture. So I have to ask you, I know there's a lot of young people out there looking for careers and interests. I mean, Cal poly is going into the high school now offering classes. >> Yeah So high school, there's so much interest in space and technology. What is the cultural mindset to be successful? Andy Jassy last year, reading and talk about the mindset of the builder and the enterprise CXO: "Get off your butt and start building" There's a space ethos going on. What is the mindset? Would you share your view on it? >> The mindset is innovation and moving fast, right? We, we lived, most of my career, in the time where we had an unlimited amount of money and unlimited amount of time. And so we were really slow and deliberate about how we built things. The future won't wait, whether it's commercial application, or military application, we have to move fast. And so the culture is: the faster we can move, The more we'll succeed, and there's no way to move faster than when you're building on the AWS cloud. Ground station is a good example. You know, the proposition of the cloud is: Don't invest your limited resources in your own infrastructure that doesn't differentiate your capability. And so we did that same thing with ground station. And we've said to companies: "Don't spend millions of dollars on developing your own ground station infrastructure, pay by the minute to use AWS's and focus your limited resources back in your product, which differentiate your space mission." and that's just been power. >> How is that going from customer perspective? >> Great. It's going great. We continue to grow. We added another location recently. And just in the last week we announced a licensed accelerator. One of the things our customers told us is it takes too long to work with global governments to get licensed, to operate around the world. And we know that's been the case. So we put together a team that leaned in to solve that problem, and we just announced the licensed accelerator, where we will work with companies to walk them through that process, and we can shave an 18 month process into a three or four month process. And that's been... we've gotten great response on that from our company. >> I've always said: >> I remember when you were hired and the whole space thing was happening. I remember saying to myself: "Man, if democratization can bring, come to space" >> And we're seeing that happening >> You guys started it and you guys, props to your team. >> Making space available to more and more people, and they'll dazzle us with the innovative ways we use space. 10 years ago, we couldn't have envisioned those things I told you about earlier. Now, we're opening up all sorts of workloads and John, real quick, one of the reasons is, in the past, you had to have a specific forte or expertise in working with space data, 'cause it was so unique and formatted and in pipeline systems. We're making that democratized. So it's just like any other data, like apps on your phone. If you can build apps for your phone and manage data, we want to make it that easy to operate with space data, and that's going to change the way the industry operates. >> And that's fundamentally, that's great innovation because you're enabling that. That's why I have to ask you on that note Of the innovation trends that you see or activities: What excites you the most? >> So a lot of things, but I'll give you two examples very quickly: One is high-performance compute. We're seeing more and more companies really lean in to understanding how fast they can go on AWS. I told you about LeoLabs, eight hours to 10 seconds. But that high-performance computes going to be a game changer. The other thing is: oh, and real quick, I want to tell you, Descartes Labs. So Descartes Labs came to us and said: "We want to compete in the Annual Global Top 500 supercomputer challenge" And so we worked with them for a couple of weeks. We built a workload on the AWS standard platform. We came in number 40 in the globe for the Top 500 super computer lists, just by building some workloads on our standard platform. That's powerful, high-performance compute. But the second example I wanted to give you is: digital modeling, digital simulation, digital engineering. Boom Aerospace is a company, Boom, that we work with. Boom decided to build their entire supersonic commercial, supersonic aircraft, digital engineering on the AWS cloud. In the last three years, John, they've executed 6,000 years of high-performance compute in the last three years. How do you do 6,000 years in compute in three years? You spin up thousands of AWS servers simultaneously, let them do your digital management, digital analysis, digital design, bring back a million different perturbations of a wing structure and then pick the one that's best and then come back tomorrow and run it again. That's powerful. >> And that was not even possible, years ago. >> Not at that speed, no, not at that speed. And that's what it's really opening up in terms of innovation. >> So now you've done it so much in your career, okay? Now you're here with Amazon. Looking back on this past year or so, What's the learnings for you? >> The learning is, truly how valuable cloud can be to the space industry, I'll admit to you most people in the space industry and especially in the government space industry. If you ask us a year ago, two years ago: "Hey, what do you think about cloud?" We would have said: "Well, you know, I hear people talk about the cloud. There's probably some value. We should probably look at that" And I was in the same boat, but now that I've dug deeply into the cloud and understand the value of artificial intelligence, machine learning, advanced data analytics, a ground station infrastructure, all those things, I'm more excited than ever before about what the space industry can benefit from cloud computing, and so bringing that, customer by customer is just a really fulfilling way to continue to be part of the space industry. Even though I retired from government service. >> Is there a... I'm just curious because you brought it up. Is there a lot of people coming in from the old, the space industry from public sector? Are they coming into commercial? >> Absolutely. >> Commercial rising up and there's, I mean, I know there's a lot of public/private partnerships, What's the current situation? >> Yeah, lots of partnerships, but we're seeing an interesting trend. You know, it used to be that NASA led the way in science and technology, or the military led the way in science and technology, and they still do in some areas. And then the commercial industry would follow along. We're seeing that's reversed. There's so much growth in the commercial industry. So much money, venture capital being poured in and so many innovative solutions being built, for instance, on the cloud that now the commercial industry is leading technology and building new technology trends that the military and the DOD and their government are trying to take advantage of. And that's why you're seeing all these commercial contracts being led from Air Force, Space Force, NASA, and NRO. To take advantage of that commercialization. >> You like your job. >> I love my job. (laughing) -I can tell, >> I love my job. >> I mean, it is a cool job. I kind of want to work for you. >> So John, space is cool. That's our tagline: space is cool. >> Space is cool. Space equals ratings in the digital TV realm, it is really, super exciting a lot of young people are interested, I mean, robotics clubs in high schools are now varsity sports, eSports, all blend together. >> Space, robotics, artificial intelligence, machine learning, advanced analytics. It's all becoming a singular sector today and it's open to more people than ever before, for the reasons we talked about. >> Big wave and you guys are building the surf boards, everyone a ride it, congratulations. Great to see you in person. >> Thank you. Again, thanks for coming on theCUBE, appreciate that. >> Thanks for having us. >> Clint Crosier is the Director of AWS Aerospace & Satellite. Legend in the industry. Now at AWS. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) >> Okay, thanks Adam in the studio. We're here on the floor in Cloud City, right in the middle of all the action. The keynotes are going on in the background, it's a packed house. I'm John Furrier. Dave Vellante is on assignment, digging in, getting those stories. He'll have the analysis, he'll be back on theCUBE but I want to welcome Chloe Richardson, who has been holding down the main stage here in Cloud City, with amazing content that she's been hosting. Chloe, great to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE and kicking it up day two with me. >> No, not at all. Thank you for having me. It's very exciting. I love what you guys have got over here, very fun. >> We're inside theCUBE. This is where all the action is. And also the Cloud City is really changing the game. If you look at what's going on here in Cloud City, it's pretty spectacular. >> Know, I mean the atmosphere is absolutely palpable, isn't it? You can just feel as people walk in and see what the future looks like to the Telecoms industry, it's very exciting. >> And you've been doing a great job on the main stage. We've been really loving your content. Let's get into some of the content here. Actually the keynote is going on, we're going to have DR, maybe fly by the set later, we're going to check that up. But let's check out this videotape of, this is TelcoDR. You got to check out this reel and we'll be right back, we'll talk about it. (upbeat music) >> TelcoDR burst onto the global telecom scene this year, making headlines for taking over the huge Erickson's space at MWC21. And for building Cloud City in just a hundred days. But why did the company go to such trouble? And what is the unique offering to the telecoms industry? And what drives their dynamic CEO, Danielle Royston or DR as everyone calls her? Cloud City Live caught up with DR, away from the hustle and bustle of the city to find out. (upbeat music) >> Hi, I'm Danielle Royston, coming to you from beautiful Barcelona. I'm here for MWC21. About a hundred days ago, I decided to take over the iconic Erickson booth to turn it into Cloud City. Cloud City has over 30 vendors and 70 demos to introduce telco to what I think is the future for our industry. We're going to have three awesome experiences. We're going to talk about the new subscriber experience, we're going to talk about what's in store for the new network and the future of work. I'm really excited to create a community and invite awesome telco executives to see this new future. It's been a really tough 18 months, and we didn't know what MWC21 was going to be like in terms of attendance. And so from the get go we plan this amazing experience that we call, Cloud City Live. At Cloud City Live, we have two main components. We have the speaker series where we have over 50 speakers from Amazon, Google, Microsoft, as well as CSPs and awesome vendors talking about the public cloud in telco. The second part of Cloud City Live, is theCUBE. Think of this as like an ESPN desk of awesome tech interviews focused on telco and the public cloud hosted by John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Dave and John are going to talk to a variety of guests, focused on telco and the public cloud. It's a great way for our virtual participants to feel like they're at the show, experiencing what's going on here. So excited to have them as part of the Cloud City booth. There's a ton of innovation going on in telco. And 20 years ago, Elon Musk set on his mission to Mars. I, like Elon Musk, I'm on a quest to take telco to the public cloud. Every year at MWC, there's always a flurry of announcements and this year is no different. At this year's MWC, Totogi, a startup that I invested a hundred million dollars in, will be launching. Totogi is introducing two products to the market, this week at MWC. The first is a planetary scale charger. More than a charger, it's an engagement coupling dual network data with charging information to drive subscriber engagement and doubling your ARPU. The second product that Totogi is introducing, is a planetary scale BSS system built on top of the TM forum, open APIs. Both of these products will be available for viewing in the virtual booth, as well as on the show for. The public cloud is an unstoppable mega trend that's coming to telco. I'm super excited to bring to you, the vendors, the products, the demonstrations, and the speakers, both to people here in Barcelona and virtually around the world. (upbeat music) >> Well, that was a fascinating insight into the origins of TelcoDR, why public cloud is going to truly disrupt the telecoms industry and why DR herself is so passionate about it. If you'd like to find out more, come and see us at Cloud City. (upbeat music) >> Okay, thanks. Just roll on that reel. Chloe, I mean, look at that reel. I mean, DR, Danielle Royston, she's a star and I've seen a lot of power players in the industry. She's got guts and determination, and she's got a vision and she's not just, you know, making noise about telco and cloud, there's actually a lot of real good vision there. I mean, it's just so impressive. >> No, really isn't. And for me, it's almost like the next moonshot. It's the moonshot of the telco world. She's innovative, she's exciting and if we've learned anything over the last 18 months is that we need to in this industry to grow and for the future of the industry. So, it's so exciting. I think she's a real inspiration. >> And I love the fact that she's so, takes a tiger by the tail, because the telco industry is being disrupted. She's just driving the bus here and I remember I did a story on Teresa Carlson, who was with Amazon web services, she was running the public sector and she was doing the same exact thing in that public sector world in DC and around the world. She opened up regions in Bahrain, which as a woman, that was an amazing accomplishment. And she wasn't just a woman, she was just a power player. And she was exceptional leader. I see DR doing the same thing and people aren't going to like that, I'll tell you right now. People are going to be like, whoa, what's going on here? >> And of course, it's always the way we pioneers though, isn't it? At the time people thinking what's going, we don't like change, why are we being shaken up. But actually afterwards, in retrospect, they think, oh, okay, I see why that happened and we needed it. So really exciting stuff. >> Making things happen, that's what we're doing here in theCUBE. Obviously the main stage's doing a great job. Let's go check out this highlight reel. If you're watching and you miss some of the action, this is, I'll see the physical event back since 2019 in February, but there's also a Hybrid event. A lot of virtual action going on. So you got theCUBE virtual, you got a lot of content on virtual sites, but in person here, we're going to go show you a highlight reel from what we did yesterday, what was happening around the show? Enjoy this quick highlight reel from yesterday. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) Okay. We're back here in theCUBE. We're the main floor out here with Chloe Richardson, who is emceeing, hosting and driving the content on the Cloud City main stage. Chloe, it's been great here. I mean, so far day one, I was watching your presentations and inspire site chats you've been hosting. Awesome content. I mean, people are like jazzed up. >> Yeah, I know for sure. We had Scott Brighton on yesterday, who was our opening keynote on the live stage. And his session was all about the future of work, which is so relevant and so pertinent to now. And he talked about the way it's changing and in 10 years it's going to be a trillion dollar industry to be in the cloud at work. So really interesting. I mean, yeah, the atmosphere here is great, everyone's excited, there's new content everyday. And that's the thing, it's not stale content. It's stuff that people want to hear. People are here for the new hot trends, the new hot topics. Really exciting. >> Yeah, the next big thing. And also it's a fiscal event. So since 2019, this Mobile World Congress has been a massive event and hasn't happened since February, 2019. That's a lot of time that's elapsed in the industry cause of COVID and people are glad to be here, but a lot of stuff's changed. >> Yeah, it's a different world, right? I mean, two years in the telco industry is like a hundred years elsewhere. Everything has changed, digital transformation migration, obviously cloud, which is what we're talking about over here at Cloud City Live. I'm wondering though John, I'd like to pick your brains on something. >> Sure. >> It has changed in the last two years, we know that, but what about the future of Mobile World Congress? How do you see it changing in the next few years? >> Oh man, that's a great question. I mean, my observation, I've been coming to the show for a very long time, over a decade and a half, and it's been a nerdy show about networks and telecom, which is basically radios and wireless and then mobile. It's very global, a lot of networks, but now it's evolving and many people are saying, and we were talking on theCUBE yesterday, Dave Vellante was commenting that this show is turning into a consumer like show. So CES is the big consumer electronics show in the US, in Las Vegas every year. This show has got a vibe because what's all the technology from the cloud players and from the chips, are getting smaller, faster, cheaper, more capability, lower power. So if you look at the chips, the hardware, it's less about the speeds and feeds. It's more about the consumer experience. You got cars. I was talking to a guy yesterday, he said, "Vehicle e-commerce is coming." I'm like, "What the hell his vehicle e-commerce?" And you could be on your app, driving down the freeway and go, "Hey, I want some food." Instead of having it delivered to you, if you order it you pick it up. So that's kind of can be happening now in real time, you can do all kinds of other things. so a lot of new things are happening. >> Yeah, I think so. Do you see that as another disruption for the industry that is the fact that it's moving to be more consumer focused? Is that anything we should be worried about in that space? >> Well I think the incumbents are going to lose their position. So I think in any new shift, new brands come in out of nowhere. >> For sure. >> And it's the people that you don't think about. It's the company that's not, that you don't see. And we got DR on the main stage right here, look at this. You saw her walk out with the confidence of a pro. She just walked out there and she's not afraid. >> No. Well, as she said in her video, she is ready to wake them up and you can see as soon as she worked out. That is what she intends to do. >> I love her mojo, she's got a lot of energy. And back to the show, I mean, she's just an example of what I was saying. Like in every market shift, a new brand emerges. >> Yep. >> I mean, even when apple was tainted, they were about to shut down, they were going to run out of cash. When Steve Jobs brought back apple, he consolidated and rebooted the company. The iPad was a similar moment, then the iPhone and just the rest is history. That kind of disruption's coming. You're going to see that here. >> Yeah. Oh, it's exciting though isn't it? To be future ready rather than future proof but actually I wanted to ask you something as well, because we are seeing all these cloud players getting hot under the collar about telco. Why are they so excited? What's the buzz about why, as you're in MWS and Google Cloud? Why do they want to have a slice of the pie? >> Well, I think they're hot, hot and heavy on the fact that telco is a ripe opportunity and it used to be this boring, slow moving glacier. >> Okay. >> It's almost like global warming now. The icebergs are melting and it's going to just change and because of the edge, 5G is not a consumer wireless thing. It's not like a better phone, it's a commercial app opportunity cause it's high bandwidth. We've all been to concerts or football games or sporting events where a stadium is packed. Everyone gets bars on their wifi, but can't get out, can't upload their pictures on Instagram. Why? Because it's choking them in the network. That's where 5G solves the problem. It brings a lot of bandwidth and that's going to bring the edge to life and that's money. So when you got money and greed and power changing hands, it's every, it's on the table and the wheel's spinning, and it could be double zero, or it could be lucky seven. You don't know. >> Yeah, for sure. And that's certainly enough to get all the big players hot and bothered about getting involved. And I suppose it circles back to the fact that, DR is really leading the charge and they're probably thinking, okay, what's going on here? This is different, we want something new. You didn't know it's an open run or something that we've been talking about over the last day or so. We've had quite a few of us speakers over here constantly. I've mentioned open run. What is it all about John? Because why all the bars, if 5G is such a hot topic? Why are we getting excited about it? >> That's a great thing. 5G certainly is Google Drive the main trend for sure. OpenRent is essentially an answer to the fact that 5G is popular and they need more infrastructure. So open source, the Linux Foundation has been the driver for most of the open source software. So they're trying to bring software and open architectures to create more entrepreneurial activity around hardware and around infrastructure because we need more infrastructure. We need more antennas, we need more transceivers, we need more devices that could be open. So in order to do that, you got to open up the technology and you want to minimize the licensing and minimize a lot of these, you know, proprietary aspects. >> What if we look at, so on Wednesday, we've got a great keynote from Philippe Langlois, who is CEO and founder of P1 Security. And he's coming to talk to us about cybersecurity within the cloud and within telco. So you just mentioned that. Open mind, it's all about having open source, about having that space where we can share more efficiently and easy, more easily. What does that mean for security though? Is it a risk? >> I think that's going to increase the value of security and minimize the threats. Because open source, even though it's open, the more people that are working on it, the more secure it could be. So yes, it could be more open in sense that could be explored by hackers, but it can be open to also protect. And I think we've seen open source and cloud in particular be more secure because everyone said, "Cloud is not secure, open source is not secure." And as it turns out when the collective hive minds of developers work on things, it gets secure. >> And it is interesting, isn't it? Because we have seen that there has been an uptick in cyber security and threats. But actually I was speaking to some leaders in across various industries and particularly in tech. And they were saying, "Actually there's not been an uptick in attempted threats, there's been an uptick because with this open source environment. We are able to track them and measure them and defend more efficiently. So actually they're being battered away, but the number is probably the same as it always was. We just didn't know about them before we had this open source environment. >> There's more money in threats and there's more surface area. So as the tide rises, so do the threats. So on a net basis it's more because there's more volume, but it's pretty much the same. And look at it, there's money involved, they're organized, there's a business model on attacking and getting the cash out of your bank or ransomwares at an all time high. So this is like a big problem and it's beyond the government, it's our individual freedom. So security its huge and I think open source and cloud are going to be, I think the answer to that. >> Yeah, for sure. And it's again about collaboration, isn't it? Which we talk about all the time but without collaboration that the industries aren't going to have to work together to promote this environment. So yeah, it should be good to talk with Phillip on Wednesday. >> I just say in security, don't download that PDF if you don't know who came from. The fishing is always good. Well, we got some great stuff coming up. We're going to have a great day. We got a video here on Mobile World Live, we're going to show this next segment and we're going to toss it to a video. And this is really about to give the experience Chloe, for people who aren't here, right? >> Yeah. >> To get a feel for what's going on in Barcelona and all the actions. And if you look at the video, enjoy it. >> Hi, I'm Danielle Royston, CEO and founder of TelcoDr, but you can call me DR. Ready for some more straight talk about telco? It's go time, let's do it. Holy shit. It sure is a great time to be a tech company. I mean, if you're Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Grab, Twilio, DoorDash or Uber, life's pretty great. Just look at these stock prices over the past five years with their shareholder value going up into the right. Totally amazing. But where's telco? There I add our stocks to this awesome chart. Let's compare these fabulous tech stocks to AT&T, Vodafone, Telefonica, Tim, America Movil and Zain group. Huh, not so great, right? Yep. I'm talking directly to you senior telco execs. I'm here to wake you up. Why is it that Wall Street doesn't see you as tech? Why aren't CSPs seen as driving all the tech change? Why is it always Apple, Amazon and Google who get the big buzz? But more importantly, why isn't it you? Before I came to this industry, I always thought of carriers as tech companies. I gave more of my money to AT&T and to Apple because I really cared about the quality of the network. But I also wondered why on earth, the carriers allowed all the other tech companies to take center stage. After spending the last few years in telco, I now understand why. It's because you are network people, you are not customer people. I get it, you have the security blanket, you're a network oligopoly. It's crazy expensive to build a network and it's expensive to buy spectrum. It takes operational chops to run a killer network and it takes great skill to convince Wall Street, to finance all of it. You telco execs are amazing at all those things, but because you focus on the network, it means you don't focus on the customer. And so far you haven't had to. Every telco's KPI is to be less shitty than their next competitor. You don't have to be the best, just don't be last. Everyone else's NPS, is in the thirties too. Their mobile app ratings are just as terrible as yours. Everyone's sucks at customer sat and it's widely acknowledged and accepted. Let's talk about the cost of that. The cost is not measured on market share against other MNOs. The cost is measured in lost ARPU that the tech guys are getting. Everyone knows about the loss of texting, to WeChat, WhatsApp and the other OTT apps, but it is not just texting. The total adjustable market or term of the mobile app disruptors is huge. Instead of remaining network focused, you should be leveraging your network into a premier position. And because you're a network people, I bet you think I'm talking about coercive network leverage. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about love, customer love. There is one thing the highly valued tech companies all have in common. They all crush it on customer love. They look at every interaction with the customer and say, "How do we make the customer love this?" Like Netflix has easy monthly cancellation, Amazon does no questions asked returns, Uber gives users a real time view into driver rating and availability. Compare those ideas to the standard telco customer interaction. The highly valued tech companies, don't have the network oligopoly to fall back on like you do. To survive they must make customers love them. So they focus on it in a big way and it pays off. Their NPS is close to 70 and they have app ratings of 4.5 or higher. A far cry from your thirties NPS and app ratings of 3.5. If you want to have those huge tech multiples for yourself, you have to start thinking about these guys as your new competition, not the other telcos in your market. The crazy thing is, if you give up using your network as a crutch and put all of your focus on the customer, the network becomes an asset worth more than all the super apps. Let's step back and talk about the value of super apps and becoming customer centric. Retooling around the customer is a huge change. So let's make sure it's worth it. We aren't talking about 25% improvement. I'm going to show you that if you become customer centric, you can double your ARPU, double your valuation multiples and drive big shareholder value just like the tech companies on that chart. Now let's talk about the customer focused super apps. There are hundreds of companies and a variety of categories vying for your subscriber's disposable income. Movies, food delivery, financial services, who are they? And why does Wall Street give them such high evaluations and like them so much? Well first, look at what they are telling Wall Street about their TAM. They broadcast ridiculously huge TAMs that are greater than the telco TAMs. You know, who should have a ridiculously huge TAM? You. Hello. What I'm saying is that if you got what's yours, you double in size. And if you take the TAAMs they throw around, you'll be five times as big. When I think about the opportunity to double ARPU, without having to double the CapEx, to build out the network, I say to myself, "Hell yeah, we should totally go do it and do whatever it takes to go get." For example, let's talk about Grab. Grab is a southeast Asian super app company with an expected $40 billion valuation. Grab's customer focused started in rideshare, but then leverage its customer love into wallet deliveries, hospitality, and investing. Their ARPU is now larger than a telco's ARPU in countries where they compete, and they have a higher valuation than those telcos too. Imagine if you could combine a great user experience with a valuable services that helped grow your ARPU, that would be huge. So how do you build a super app? I bet right about now, you're wishing you had a super app. Everyone wants a super app. A lot of money has been unsuccessfully spent by telcos trying to build their own. I bet you're saying to yourself, "DR, your pie in the sky sounds great but it has no chance of success." Well, I'm betting things are about to change. There is a public cloud startup called Totogi that is going to help carriers build world class super apps. To have a successful super app, there is one key metric you need to know. It is the KPI that determines if your super app will be a success or a flop. It's not about the daily active users, it's not the average order value, it's not even gross merchandise value. It's all about the frequency of use per day by the user, that's the metric that matters. How many of you use that metric in your telco apps? Do you have a team driving up user app interactions every day? Most telco apps are used for top up or to check a bill. This is a huge missed opportunity. Super app companies excel at building great experiences and driving a huge amount of interactions. They have to, their business depends on it. They have to be customer focused. They have to keep bringing the user back to the app, every day, multiple times a day. And you know what? They do a great job. Customers love their super apps. They have great user experiences like Apple credit cards, no information required, application process. They have high net promoter scores because of customer friendly policies, like how DoorDash retroactively credits fees when you move to a better plan. And they have great app store ratings because they do simple things like remember your last order, or allow you to use the app rather than force you to call customer service. Customers of successful super apps love it when new services are added. And because of the customer love, every time something is added to the app, customers adopt it immediately. New services drive frequent daily user interactions. So our problem in telco is we have an app that is only open once per month, not multiple times per day. And without frequent opens, there is no super app. What do we do we have in telco that we could use to help with this problem? I wonder, why you don't currently have a mobile app that subscribers use multiple times a day. You have something that's 10 times better. You have a network. Subscribers already interact with your network 10 times more frequently than any user with any of the super apps. But telcos don't leverage those interactions into the insanely valuable engagements they could be. Worse, even if you wanted to your crappy over customized on premise solutions, make it impossible. Thankfully, there's this new tech that's come around, you may have heard of it. The public cloud. When you bring the enabling technology of the public cloud, you can turn your network interactions into valuable super app interactions. And there's a special new startup that's going to help you do it, Totogi. Totogi will leverage all those network interactions and turn them into valuable customer interactions. Let me repeat that. Totogi will leverage all those network interactions and turn them into valuable customer interactions. Totogi allows the carrier to leverage its network and all the network interactions into customer engagement. This is something the super apps don't have but will wish they did. But this magic technology is not enough. Telcos also need to move from being network focus to being customer focused. Totogi enables telcos to chase exciting revenue growth without that annoying massive CapEx investment. Totogi is going to help you transform your sucky mobile apps with the crappy customer ratings, into something your subscribers want to open multiple times a day and become a platform for growth. I'm so excited about Totogi, I'm investing $100 million into it. You heard me right, $100 million. Is this what it feels like to be soft bank? I'm investing in Totogi because it's going to enable telcos to leverage the network interactions into super app usage. Which will lead to an improved subscriber experience and will give you a massive jump in your ARPU. And once you do that, all those Telco valuations will go from down here to up here. And so I've been talking to some folks, you know, checking in, feeling them out, getting their thoughts, and I've been asking them, what do you think about telcos building super apps? And the response has been, click, everyone says, "No way, telcos can't do it." Zero chance, total goose egg. One suggested I build a bonfire with 100 million dollars, because then at least I wouldn't waste years of my life. Well I think those people are dead wrong. I do believe that telcos can build super apps and make them super successful. The public cloud is changing all parts of telco and Totogi and super apps are fundamentally changing, the customer relationships. In one month at MWC, people will see what Totogi has to offer, and they will understand why I'm making this bold call. Because the Totogi takes the value of the network and the power of the public cloud to help telcos move from being network centric, to being customer centric. Boom! If you want to make this transformation and reap all the financial benefits, you will have to compete for customers with a whole new set of players. You will no longer compete with the network focus guys like the other telcos, instead you will be competing against the customer focused companies. These players don't have a network to fall back on like your old competitors. They know they have to make customers love them. Their customer loyalty is so off the charts, their customers are called fans. So if you want that big money, you will have to compete on their turf and make the customers want to choose you, you need Apple level loyalty. That bar is uber high. We will have to give up the security blanket of the network and change. Instead of NPS of the thirties, it needs to be in the 70s. Instead of mobile app ratings in the threes, they need to get five stars. I'm betting big that Totogi will make that possible. I'm going to help you every step of the way, starting with my keynote next month at MWC. Join me and I'll share the secrets to converting your super valuable network interactions to make your super app a massive success. We're going to have an amazing time and I can't wait to see you there. >> Okay. We're back here in theCUBE here at Mobile World Congress in Cloud City. I'm John Furrier, Chloe Richardson filling it for Dave Vellante who's out on assignment. He's out getting all the data out there and getting stories. Chloe, what a great keynote by Danielle Royston. We just heard her and while with major action, major pump me up, punch in the face, wake the heck up cloud people, cloud is here. She didn't pull any punches. >> No, I mean the thing is John, there's trillions of dollars on the table and everyone seems to be fighting for it. >> And you heard her up there, if you're not on the public cloud, you're not going to get access to that money. It's a free for all. And I think the cloud people are like, they might think they're going to walk right in and the telco industry is going to just give it up. >> No, of course. >> There's not going to be, it's going to be a fight, who will win. >> Who will win but also who will build the next big thing? >> Someone needs to die in the media conversation, it's always a fight, something's dead, something's dead but keeps the living. All that kidding aside, this is really about partnering. I think what's happened is, telco's already acknowledged that they need to change in the 5G edge conversation, the chip acceleration. Look at Apple, they've got their own processors, Nvidia, Amazon makes their own chips, Intel's pumping stuff out, you've got Qualcomm, you've got all these new things. So the chips are getting faster and the software's more open source and I'm telling you, cloud is just going to drive that bus right down clouds street and it's going to be in Cloud City everywhere. >> And it's going to be peeping on the board as it drives down. John, I'm not a stalker, but I have read some of the things that you've written. And one of the things you mentioned that was really interesting was the difference between building and operating. Break it down for me. What does that mean? >> That means basically in mature markets and growing markets things behave differently and certainly economics and the people and the makeup and the mindset. >> Okay. >> So the telco has been kind of this mature market. It's been changing and growing but not like radically. Cost optimization, make profit, you know, install a lot of cable. You got to get the rents out of that infrastructure and that's kind of gone on for too long. Cloud is a growth market, and it's about building, not just operating and you've got operators, carriers are operating networks. So you're going to see the convergence of operators and builders coming together, builders being software developers, new technology and executives that think about building. And you want people on your team that are going to be, I won't say war time, you know, lieutenants or generals, but people who can handle the pace of change. >> Okay. >> Because the change and the nature is different. And some people want slow and steady, keep the boat from rocking, but in a growth market, it's turbulent and ride might not be quiet, first class ticket to paradise, but it's bumpy, but it's thrilling. >> No, of course. Is it similar to the old sales adage of hunter versus farmer and the parallels? >> Yeah. I mean, the mindset. If you have a team of people that aren't knocking down new opportunities and building the next big thing, fixing your house, get your house in order, you know, refactor, reset, reboot, re platform with the cloud and then refactor your business. If you don't have the people thinking like that, you're probably either going to be taken over or go out of business. And that's what the telco with all these assets, they're going to get bought roll into a SPAC, special purpose acquisition company was a super hot in the United States. A lot of roll ups going on with Private equity. So a lot of these telcos, if they don't refactor or re platform, then refactor, they're going to be toast and they're going to get rolled up and eaten up by somebody else. >> Yeah, sure. It's interesting though, isn't it? Because when we think of telco in tech, we often think of, obviously we've got the triad. People process technology, and we think process and technology really take the forefront here but like you said there, people are also so important because if you don't have this right balance, you're not going to be able to drive that change. We had, obviously Scott Brighton on the stage yesterday and after his session, somebody came up to me and just said, "I'm interested to hear what that means for education." So how can we establish this new generation of tech and telco leaders from the grassroots with educational associations establishments? How can we encourage that? I wonder, is this something that you talk about often? >> Yeah. I mean, education is huge and this highlights the change that telcos now part of. Telco used to be a boring industry that ran the networks, or moving packets around and mobile was there, but once the iPhone came out in 2007, the life has changed, society has changed, education's changed, how people interact has changed. So you start to see people now aware of the value and if you look at the, during the COVID, the internet didn't crash, the telcos actually saved our asses and everyone was, survive because the network didn't break. Yeah, we had some bad zoom meetings here and there and some teleconferences that didn't go well but for the most part we survived and they really saved everybody, my goodness. So they should get kudos for that. But now they're dependent upon healthcare, education, people care about that stuff. So now you're going to start to see an elevated focus on what telecom is doing. That's why The Edge has checked trillions of dollars up for grabs. But education, there's negative unemployment in cybersecurity and in cloud. So for the people who say, oh, there's no jobs or I can't work, that's a bunch of BS because you can just get online, get on YouTube and just get a degree. You can get a degree, you can get an Amazon job, it pays a hundred thousand dollars a year, American. You can make a hundred thousand pounds and be unemployed six months and then be employed. So negative unemployment means there's more jobs than people to fill them qualify. >> Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that because I was talking to a cyber security leader who was saying in some of the things there were now 3 million vacancies in cybersecurity and there's such a skill shortage, there is nobody around to fill it. So it's an interesting problem to have isn't it? Cause it's reversed to what we've been used to for the last few decades and obviously telco is in the same space. What can we do about it? Do you think it will actually bring people in? >> I think it's going to take leadership and I'm a big proponent of kids not going to university, they don't have to. Why spend the dough, money if you don't have to? You can get online. I mean, the data's there, but to me it's the relationships, the mentorship. You starting to see women in tech and underrepresented minorities in the tech field, where mentorship is more important than curriculum. Community is more important than just going through a linear course where nobody wants to sit online and go through linear courseware. Now, if they have to get a certificate or degree and accreditation no problem, but communities are out there. So that's a big change over, I'm a big fan of that and I think people should, you know, get some specialized skills, you can get that online. So why even go to school? So people are figuring that out. >> For sure. And also even transferring, I mean, so many skills are transferable nowadays, aren't there? So we could easily be talking to people from other industries and bringing them into telco and saying, look, bring what you know from your retail background or your healthcare background and help us at telco to again, drive forward, just like DR is saying it's all about the next big thing. >> Danielle, I was also driving a lot of change and if you think about the jobs and a pedigree of going to a university, oh, Harvard, all the big Ivy leagues, Oxford in your area. So it's like, if you go to a school like that and you get a pedigree, you instantly get a job. Now, the jobs that are available, weren't around five years ago. So there's no like pedigree or track record, there's no like, everyone's equal. >> Yeah. >> So you could, the democratization of the internet now is, from a job standpoint is, people are leveling up faster. So it's not about the Ivy league or the big degree or silver spoon in your mouth, you've got the entitlement. So you start to see people emergent and make things happen, entrepreneurship in America, immigrant entrepreneurship. People are billionaires that have no high school diplomas. >> It's interesting you mentioned that John, because we can have more than five years experience in this space, we know that but in telco there is a problem and maybe it's, again it's a flipped problem where, telco recruiters or talent acquisition leaders, are now asking for kind of 10, 20 years experience when they're sending out job descriptions. So does that mean that we are at fault for not being able to fill all these vacancies? >> Well, I mean, I think that's just, I mean, I think there's a transition of the new skill set happening one, but two, I think, you know, you've got to be like a chip engineer, you can't learn that online, but if you want to run a cloud infrastructure, you can. But I think embedded systems is an area that I was talking to an engineer, there's a huge shortage of engineers who code on the microprocessors, on the chips. So embedded systems is a big career. So there's definitely parts, you can specialize, space is another area you've seen a lot of activity on, obviously Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk is going to be here on virtual keynote, trying to go to Mars. And, you know, Danielle Royston always says, who's going to happen first, Mars, colony, or telco adopting public cloud? Some people think Mars will happen first but. >> What do you think John? >> I think telco's going to get cloud. I mean, first of all, public cloud is now hybrid cloud and the edge, this whole internet edge, 5G, is so symbolic and so important because it's an architectural beachhead. >> Yeah. >> And that's where the trillion dollar baby is. >> Of course. >> So the inside baseball and the inside money and all the investors are focusing on the edge because whoever can command the edge, wins all the dollars. So everyone kind of knows it's a public secret and it's fun to watch, everyone jockey for the positions. >> Yeah, know, it really is. But it's also quite funny, isn't it? Because the edge is almost where we were decades ago, but we're putting the control back in the hands of consumers. So it's an interesting flip and I wonder if with the edge, we can really enhance this acceleration of product development its efficiency, this frictionless system in which we live in. And also, I've heard you say hybrid a few times John. >> Yeah. >> Is hybrid going to be the future of the world no matter what industry you're in? >> Hybrid is everything now. So it's, we're the hybrid cube, we've got hybrid cloud. >> Exactly. >> You got hybrid telco, because now you've got the confluence of online and offline coming together. >> Yeah. >> That is critical dynamic, and you seeing it. Like virtual reality for instance, now you seeing things, I know you guys are doing some great work at your company around creating experiences that are virtual. >> Exactly. >> You got, like Roblox went public recently. >> Yeah. >> Metaverse is a good time to be in that business because experiential human relations are coming. So I think that's going to be powered by 5G, you know, gamers. So all good stuff, Chloe, great to be with you here in theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> And we're looking forward to seeing your main stage. >> Great. >> And then we're going to send it back to the studio, Adam and the team, we're waiting for DR to arrive here in Cloud City and this is theCUBE, from Cloud City back to you, Adam in the studio.

>>Hold on. Welcome to this special cube conversation. I'm John ferry, host of the queue here in Palo Alto, California. Got a great deep dive conversation with multicloud, who we were featuring on our AWS showcase of cloud startups. Uh, Venkat Krista who's the CEO. And co-founder great to see you again and Candace Hendrix delivery architect at green pages, a partner customer. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on as always cube conversations are fun to get the deep dive. Good to see you. >>Oh, great to have, uh, have this opportunity, John. Thank you so much. Uh, Candace, thank you for joining us. It's been a pleasure work in pages, John, we're looking forward to this conversation today. >>Yeah. One of the things I'm really excited about that came out of our coupon cloud startups showcase was you guys talking about day two operations, which has been kicked around, but you guys drilled into it and put some quantification around the value proposition, but this is every company has a day to problem an opportunity and then usually our problems and most people see, but they're really opportunities to create this value proposition around something that's now going to be an operational, um, standard table-stakes. So let's get into it, take us through, uh, what you guys have with day two offers that, do a deep dive on this. Take, take it away. >>Thanks, John. Uh, John, we'll do a little bit of an involved conversation today. We'll switch between a little bit of a slide and, um, we are actually happy to show a quick demo as well. So our customers can, uh, what they see is what they get kind of demo. Um, so, uh, to give a quick background on context a day, two operations in the cloud are important for customers who are trying to get, uh, self-service provisioning, going standardization going, uh, have a way to help their developers move fast on the innovation. What we are experiencing now is developers are increasingly having a seat at the table and they would like their infrastructure architects and infrastructure solution providers to enable them to do things that they want to do with fewer friction points. What day two platform that we built does is it upskills our it teams so that they can deli work, uh, what the developers need so that the sandbox environments that they want comes to life quickly. >>And on top of that, developers can move fast with the innovation with guard rails that are in place, the guard rails that are it, administrators, it leaders are able to set for developers, include cost guard, rails, governance, guard, rails, security, and compliance guard rails, a, you know, bot based approach to getting out of the way of the developers so they can move fast while the, uh, technology provides them the Alcoa to go innovate without running into the common cloud problems, such as cost overruns or security or compliance challenges today, I'll go show and tell a little bit of all of this, and then we'll bring in partners or partner, canvas as well, so that she can talk about how we help the fortune 200, uh, innovate, uh, faster with our platform. >>Awesome. Well, let's get into it. I, you know, as you know, I, I think that day two operations is really a cloud, uh, lingua. Frank was going to be part of everyone's, uh, operational standard. And it's not just for making sure you've got cost-effectiveness, but innovation strategies that rely on cloud, they need to have new things in place. So take us through the show and tell. >>Great, well, let's switch to the slide deck here. So I'm going to give a quick background and then go from there. Great. So, um, uh, you know, Montclair is an intelligent cloud man and platform company. We help customers of all sizes. Uh, we are an AWS partner that is a cloud management tool, competency partner, super happy to be in a wedding on the AWS platform for AWS customers. Our platform is an autonomous cloud operations platform. What our mission is, we empower ID teams to go deliver to their developers and become cloud powerhouses. Uh, I'm going to go through a quick three sections of the Manticore platform that delivers value to our customers first with our platform without needing additional skillsets or hiring, uh, needing to hire, uh, you know, hard to find talent or having to use third party tools. Our customers can use AWS native solutions to achieve full visibility into their cloud environments. >>They can enable consistent self-service deployments and simplify them. They can also reduce the total cost of cloud operations, all in just a few clicks. Uh, I'm going to show and tell, uh, what customers get quickly moving into the slide where customers can get visibility into the footprint, a comprehensive security posture management and compliance posture management, click away and solve these problems. They can enable their innovation teams with operations ready environments that can provision anything from server-based workloads to serverless workloads, to containerized environments. All of that are available readily in the platform. And of course, uh, all of this can be done with a few clicks and no code. That's our platform. And a nutshell I'm happy to switch to a demo from here on John. How does that sound >>Great. Sounds awesome. Let's get the demo. Thanks for the overview. By the way, we cover that in a great video too, and a high level, um, in our new show startup showcase, people can check that out online, um, check it out, but let's get into the demo. >>Sounds good. So I'm going to switch to my laptop again here to show the browser window and go into the demo environment. Great. So this is Monte cloud.com. Uh, customers can go to app.monica.com. I'm going to move fast in a demo environment show and tell here, uh, customers split login, assuming they have signed up for the platform. It's free to sign up. Uh, the platform activates immediately. This is their full first run experience. Uh, customers can get started in about a couple of clicks. There's a welcome screen here. They can walk through this. What this provides is a way a guard had experience for customers to be able to gain visibility, security, compliance, and set up the cloud operations, uh, environment in just a couple of clicks. So in this case, customers can get continuous resource visibility. They click next from a security point of view, we'll assess about 2,220 plus security best practices and customers can select saying they would like to remediate the issues. >>We'll help do that. That's a bot based approach that does it click next compliance, a similar situation. We do compliance assessments in the platform. Customers can remediate it. Uh, click next. We have provisioning templates, John. We had a really good conversation yesterday about this, a whole set of, uh, well-architected, uh, templates that customers can click and provision anything from, uh, basic core networking, all the way up to high performance computing and minds that all is available in the platform. Again, click next to go select that customers can manage servers, windows, or Linux servers running on any cloud could be hybrid cloud, uh, Azure, AWS GCP. Again, we can manage them in a single interface and last but not the least application management, our ID operators and leaders want to have a position on how their cloud applications are performing. They want to react quickly to it best possible platform. Uh, that's it they've selected all the features. All the, which is free in the platform. Some features are available in the free trial. Customers can click and say they would like to try for 14 days. That's all. So click next platform sets itself up. This is how quick we can get to helping customers understanding what they need to do. I'm going to try and show you if I can go to the next screen here and say, this is my company name. >>So I'm going to enter some details here that, uh, helps, um, capture some basic information about, uh, our customers, uh, departments. Uh, let's say this is a demo account, or I'm going to say, um, HR, um, uh, account, let's say there's a human resources department that I'm trying to connect and manage their cloud environment, but click next >>And that's it. They connect to the AWS account. We now take our customers back to an AWS console where they're familiar interface. They're going to click next on this cloud formation stack here, which automatically starts creating what we need on the customer's account. And click, click a button here. It's going to run in the background, what my platform in this case, my view, the other view does is, uh, it instantly receives notification back from the customer's account. As you can see now, day two has recognized that, Hey, the customer is trying to connect the cloud account. It's a question. Do you want to manage these regions? We can manage 15 plus regions click next. Uh, that is pretty much it. Uh, I'm going to skip this one so that we can get to the dashboard. I'm going to skip this as well, because you can invite your team members. Uh, you can get weekly reports, uh, long story short, that's it about 10 clicks. We are already in, in a cloud environment where customers can begin to manage, operate and start taking control of the cloud footprint. >>Got it. And physical you, you skipped over the collaboration feature that's for what team members do. Kind of see the same dashboard. >>The great question. Uh, our customers can invite additional team members could be an educator who wants to look at the total cost of cloud operations. Uh, they could invite another team member who wants to be enabled only for certain parts of the platform. Very simple. We have SSO integration as well in the platform. So, uh, invite additional users start using day two in less than 10 minutes, no additional, uh, you know, configuration required. >>You know, Amazon's got that slogan always day one. You guys are always day to always go to >>About all about ensuring data was taken care of. >>Awesome. Great stuff. Candace, what's your take on this? How do you fit in here? Talk about what it's like to work with these guys. What's the, what's your perspective on this? A new multicloud day two operations dashboard. >>Hi, thank you, John. Hi, Ben Kat. Thank you very much for the introduction. Um, basically our interaction is collaborative and we're great team partners, and we work well with, with multicloud often and, and have been partners working together for quite some time and solutioning products for our clients. >>Great. Vinca you want to chime in as well and share some color commentary on, um, your partners value? >>Sure. Thanks Justin. So, uh, so green pages, uh, they offer cloud services and a whole suite of solutions to their customers. Some of the customers are ranging from fortune a hundred enterprises, uh, to a wide variety of customers. Perhaps we can actually switch over to a slide deck here, but Candace, if you're up for it, maybe we can walk through a liberal green pages and solutions that you've implemented. We can talk from the customer point of view, which we think would be more beneficial to our audience as well. >>Yes. Thank you. That's very helpful. Um, again, my name is Candice Hendrix and I'm a delivery architect here at green pages technology solutions. And what I'd like to do is share a few examples of collaboration that we have achieved through our partnership with Moni cloud first to give a better history of green pages we've been in business since 1992, we maintain a wide range of customer base, um, approximately 500 different, uh, customers and all different workflows from insurance to government to, um, um, manufacturing and the such. We've also made the CRN tech elite two 50 less for, uh, sense its inception in 2011. And basically what that is, is it's all of the companies and, or the top 250 companies in the U S and Canada, having the highest level of experience top of their game, maintaining the highest levels of training and certifications. We also offer managed services, support, professional services, cloud readiness assessments, and migrations, as well as growing a CSP or cloud service provider today, I would like to highlight a few innovative projects that we've executed with multicloud is our partner for AWS compliance needs as well as, um, AWS Dr. >>So this slide first outlines a business scenario that we dealt with with one of our clients to address cost security compliance standardization across a global AWS environment. And the challenge with this was that we experienced was the complexity of the cloud environment and the size of the environment and how can they stay compliant, optimize costs and scale the outcome with the teamwork of Mani cloud and green pages, we were able to achieve all the facets of the challenge, also enabling and, and creating what we coined it, the compliance bot and what that provided was a platform to easily parameterize some of the, um, options such as configurable schedules, configurable target servers, departments, um, options to choose between automated and manual remediation processes in compliance ability to choose whether that remediation process also, uh, auto reboots versus approval based reboots on, um, infrastructure or resources integrations into a Slack channel for manual remediation approval process, as well as daily noncompliance reporting the compliance bot also can ensure proper patching necessary agents required software versions and resources, um, that they maintain compliance through the use of tagging Lambda functions, AWS fleet manager, AWS config, and AWS CloudWatch. >>Uh, another, um, opportunity we've had to work with, um, Moni cloud in this use case, the scenario that the green pages customer needed to solve was the automation of Dr to address the requirement of an entire AWS regional failure within requirements was a RTO of four hours and an RPO of less than one minute uncertain ESE, two instances. So the challenge that we had was to develop this solution with only the use of AWS native services meeting the required RTO and RPO with no custom tooling integration. So with mighty clouds assistance and teamwork, what we were able to achieve is what we now refer to as the Dr. Bot, we solution the automation to replicate everything from their production, uh, environment in AWS to the Dr. Region in AWS, such as subnets, um, IP cider ranges, LAN IP addresses, security groups, load balancers, and all associated configuration settings. >>So with the pilot light scripting that runs daily through a Lambda function, we can manage those Delta copies into the Dr production or the Dr. Region from production and address any changes that may occur in the production environment to meet the RPO. What we used is cloud door, which is also a native AWS service. And we used AWS backup for the more static instances, we then created an integration to send any health alerts in the event of an AWS outage to their Slack channel. Then upon approval, um, they could kick off through a manual approval process. They could kick off and execute an end to end fail over from production to an AWS region and to their Dr. Region in AWS, both the compliance spot and the Dr. Bot automations can be ported and variabilize for any AWS environment. We welcome the opportunity to discuss this further and assist you in your cloud journey. I hope this explain some of the great innovation that we've been able to work with money cloud on. Thanks, Ben Capra, allowing me to speak and back to you. >>Thank you, Candace. This is fantastic. John Lassie Seesaw, right? The challenge with cloud operations is there's a lot of moving parts and, uh, visibility, compliance, security, uh, you know, all of that. Typically customers have to write custom code or integrate ten-plus tools, suddenly what, you know, customers we're seeing they're spinning up their own cloud operating teams. They're spinning up their own homegrown cloud operations model, which in invariably results in more attacks, symptoms of maintenance tasks, our platform can do all of this abstract, the complexity, and put this kind of automation within the reach of customers who are trying to transform their it departments by clicking away. That's the attack that we built on top. >>Yeah, I think that's a great example. I think Candace highlights some of the things we were talking about last time around intelligent applications, meeting, intelligent infrastructure, and to your point about operations, this comes up huge all the time in every conversation we're in and we're seeing it in the marketplace where there's a new operational model developing in real time. You're seeing people, um, homegrown ops, transforming ops. I mean, there's new roles and responsibilities are emerging and that's just the nature of the beast right now. This is kind of the new normal that it's not your traditional ops model. It's transitioning to a new, new way. This is a great example. Um, you see that the same way? >>Well, that's a, that's a great description, John you're right. That is the model that is evolving that, uh, once, um, that demands more from it teams and on the runway that is shrinking to transform and the cloud surface, it has grown how that's exactly where the becoming to help. And, uh, uh, we did do a little bit of a deep dive into what the platform does today to talk to our audience so that they can get this value. Thank you for that. Uh, you know, uh, depth in diving, happy to chat a little bit more if you'd like about, uh, where customers could go and that they can get started. >>Yeah. Looking forward to it. Vanco. Thanks for coming on, Candace. Thank you very much for sharing. Um, green pages. Congratulations. Love the Dr. Bot. That's phenomenal. I mean, I w I want a cube bottom. You're just doing these interviews is boss, but I'm looking forward to having a follow on conversation vanco. We're going to certainly see you out on the internet on Twitter. Um, maybe get you on our clubhouse, uh, chats, a lot of action out there. A lot of people talking about this, and you're seeing things from observability to new kinds of monitoring, to modern application development techniques that are just evolving in real time. So day two is here. Thanks for sharing. >>Looking forward, John, and, uh, where customers could go to is they could go to montclair.com today. They could get started in just a few place. We have a free version on the platform. They can activate this account in 10 months. They now have the power of the automation that we've built, and they can start taking control of the cloud operations in about 10 minutes. So we encourage persons to go find some free monitor.com and thank you candidates for taking the time, uh, uh, does it's fantastic that we'll be able to go solve some problems together. >>Mazi cloud turning teams into cloud powerhouses. That's their slogan. Check them out. I'm John Farrar with the cube. Thanks for watching.

>> Hello. My name is Ron Kafka, and I'm the senior director for Partner Scale Initiatives for HBE Ezmeral. Thanks for joining us today at Analytics Unleashed. By now, you've heard a lot about the Ezmeral portfolio and how it can help you accomplish objectives around big data analytics and containerization. I want to shift gears a bit and then discuss our Ezmeral Technology Partner Program. I've got two great guest speakers here with me today. And together, We're going to discuss how jointly we are solving data analytic challenges for our customers. Before I introduce them, I want to take a minute to talk to provide a little bit more insight into our ecosystem program. We've created a program with a realization based on customer feedback that even the most mature organizations are struggling with their data-driven transformation efforts. It turns out this is largely due to the pace of innovation with application vendors or ICS supporting data science and advanced analytic workloads. Their advancements are simply outpacing organization's ability to move workloads into production rapidly. Bottom line, organizations want a unified experience across environments where their entire application portfolio in essence provide a comprehensive application stack and not piece parts. So, let's talk about how our ecosystem program helps solve for this. For starters, we were leveraging HPEs long track record of forging technology partnerships and it created a best in class ISB partner program specific for the Ezmeral portfolio. We were doing this by developing an open concept marketplace where customers and partners can explore, learn, engage and collaborate with our strategic technology partners. This enables our customers to adopt, deploy validated applications from industry leading software vendors on HPE Ezmeral with a high degree of confidence. Also, it provides a very deep bench of leading ISVs for other groups inside of HPE to leverage for their solutioning efforts. Speaking of industry leading ISV, it's about time and introduce you to two of those industry leaders right now. Let me welcome Daniel Hladky from Dataiku, and Omri Geller from Run:AI. So I'd like to introduce Daniel Hladky. Daniel is with Dataiku. He's a great partner for HPE. Daniel, welcome. >> Thank you for having me here. >> That's great. Hey, would you mind just talking a bit about how your partnership journey has been with HPE? >> Yes, pleasure. So the journey started about five years ago and in 2018 we signed a worldwide reseller agreement with HPE. And in 2020, we actually started to work jointly on the integration between the Dataiku Data Science Studio called DSS and integrated that with the Ezmeral Container platform, and was a great success. And it was on behalf of some clear customer projects. >> It's been a long partnership journey with you for sure with HPE. And we welcome your partnership extremely well. Just a brief question about the Container Platform and really what that's meant for Dataiku. >> Yes, Ron. Thanks. So, basically I'd like the quote here Florian Douetteau, which is the CEO of Dataiku, who said that the combination of Dataiku with the HPE Ezmeral Container Platform will help the customers to successfully scale and put machine learning projects into production. And this basically is going to deliver real impact for their business. So, the combination of the two of us is a great success. >> That's great. Can you talk about what Dataiku is doing and how HPE Ezmeral Container Platform fits in a solution offering a bit more? >> Great. So basically Dataiku DSS is our product which is a end to end data science platform, and basically brings value to the project of customers on their past enterprise AI. In simple ways, we can say it could be as simple as building data pipelines, but it could be also very complex by having machine and deep learning models at scale. So the fast track to value is by having collaboration, orchestration online technologies and the models in production. So, all of that is part of the Data Science Studio and Ezmeral fits perfectly into the part where we design and then basically put at scale those project and put it into product. >> That's perfect. Can you be a bit more specific about how you see HPE and Dataiku really tightening up a customer outcome and value proposition? >> Yes. So what we see is also the challenge of the market that probably about 80% of the use cases really never make it to production. And this is of course a big challenge and we need to change that. And I think the combination of the two of us is actually addressing exactly this need. What we can say is part of the MLOps approach, Dataiku and the Ezmeral Container Platform will provide a frictionless approach, which means without scripting and coding, customers can put all those projects into the productive environment and don't have to worry any more and be more business oriented. >> That's great. So you mentioned you're seeing customers be a lot more mature with their AI workloads and deployment. What do you suggest for the other customers out there that are just starting this journey or just thinking about how to get started? >> Yeah. That's a very good question, Ron. So what we see there is actually the challenge that people need to go on a pass of maturity. And this starts with a simple data pipelines, et cetera, and then basically move up the ladder and basically build large complex project. And here I see a very interesting offer coming now from HPE which is called D3S, which is the data science startup pack. That's something I discussed together with HPE back in early 2020. And basically, it solves the three stages, which is explore, experiment and evolve and builds quickly MVPs for the customers. By doing so, basically you addressed business objectives, lay out in the proper architecture and also setting up the proper organization around it. So, this is a great combination by HPE and Dataiku through the D3S. >> And it's a perfect example of what I mentioned earlier about leveraging the ecosystem program that we built to do deeper solutioning efforts inside of HPE in this case with our AI business unit. So, congratulations on that and thanks for joining us today. I'm going to shift gears. I'm going to bring in Omri Geller from Run:AI. Omri, welcome. It's great to have you. You guys are killing it out there in the market today. And I just thought we could spend a few minutes talking about what is so unique and differentiated from your offerings. >> Thank you, Ron. It's a pleasure to be here. Run:AI creates a virtualization and orchestration layer for AI infrastructure. We help organizations to gain visibility and control over their GPO resources and help them deliver AI solutions to market faster. And we do that by managing granular scheduling, prioritization, allocation of compute power, together with the HPE Ezmeral Container Platform. >> That's great. And your partnership with HPE is a bit newer than Daniel's, right? Maybe about the last year or so we've been working together a lot more closely. Can you just talk about the HPE partnership, what it's meant for you and how do you see it impacting your business? >> Sure. First of all, Run:AI is excited to partner with HPE Ezmeral Container Platform and help customers manage appeals for their AI workloads. We chose HPE since HPE has years of experience partnering with AI use cases and outcomes with vendors who have strong footprint in this markets. HPE works with many partners that are complimentary for our use case such as Nvidia, and HPE Container Platform together with Run:AI and Nvidia deliver a world class solutions for AI accelerated workloads. And as you can understand, for AI speed is critical. Companies want to gather important AI initiatives into production as soon as they can. And the HPE Ezmeral Container Platform, running IGP orchestration solution enables that by enabling dynamic provisioning of GPU so that resources can be easily shared, efficiently orchestrated and optimal used. >> That's great. And you talked a lot about the efficiency of the solution. What about from a customer perspective? What is the real benefit that our customers are going to be able to gain from an HPE and Run:AI offering? >> So first, it is important to understand how data scientists and AI researchers actually build solution. They do it by running experiments. And if a data scientist is able to run more experiments per given time, they will get to the solution faster. With HPE Ezmeral Container Platform, Run:AI and users such as data scientists can actually do that and seamlessly and efficiently consume large amounts of GPU resources, run more experiments or given time and therefore accelerate their research. Together, we actually saw a customer that is running almost 7,000 jobs in parallel over GPUs with efficient utilization of those GPUs. And by running more experiments, those customers can be much more effective and efficient when it comes to bringing solutions to market >> Couldn't agree more. And I think we're starting to see a lot of joint success together as we go out and talk to the story. Hey, I want to thank you both one last time for being here with me today. It was very enlightening for our team to have you as part of the program. And I'm excited to extend this customer value proposition out to the rest of our communities. With that, I'd like to close today's session. I appreciate everyone's time. And keep an eye out on our ISP marketplace for Ezmeral We're continuing to expand and add new capabilities and new partners to our marketplace. We're excited to do a lot of great things and help you guys all be successful. Thanks for joining. >> Thank you, Ron. >> What a great panel discussion. And these partners they really do have a good understanding of the possibilities, working on the platform, and I hope and expect we'll see this ecosystem continue to grow. That concludes the main program, which means you can now pick one of three live demos to attend and chat live with experts. Now those three include day in the life of IT Admin, day in the life of a data scientist, and even a day in the life of the HPE Ezmeral Data Fabric, where you can see the many ways the data fabric is used in your life today. Wish you could attend all three, no worries. The recordings will be available on demand for you and your teams. Moreover, the show doesn't stop here, HPE has a growing and thriving tech community, you should check it out. It's really a solid starting point for learning more, talking to smart people about great ideas and seeing how Ezmeral can be part of your own data journey. Again, thanks very much to all of you for joining, until next time, keep unleashing the power of your data.

>> Hello. My name is Ron Kafka, and I'm the senior director for Partner Scale Initiatives for HBE Ezmeral. Thanks for joining us today at Analytics Unleashed. By now, you've heard a lot about the Ezmeral portfolio and how it can help you accomplish objectives around big data analytics and containerization. I want to shift gears a bit and then discuss our Ezmeral Technology Partner Program. I've got two great guest speakers here with me today. And together, We're going to discuss how jointly we are solving data analytic challenges for our customers. Before I introduce them, I want to take a minute to talk to provide a little bit more insight into our ecosystem program. We've created a program with a realization based on customer feedback that even the most mature organizations are struggling with their data-driven transformation efforts. It turns out this is largely due to the pace of innovation with application vendors or ICS supporting data science and advanced analytic workloads. Their advancements are simply outpacing organization's ability to move workloads into production rapidly. Bottom line, organizations want a unified experience across environments where their entire application portfolio in essence provide a comprehensive application stack and not piece parts. So, let's talk about how our ecosystem program helps solve for this. For starters, we were leveraging HPEs long track record of forging technology partnerships and it created a best in class ISB partner program specific for the Ezmeral portfolio. We were doing this by developing an open concept marketplace where customers and partners can explore, learn, engage and collaborate with our strategic technology partners. This enables our customers to adopt, deploy validated applications from industry leading software vendors on HPE Ezmeral with a high degree of confidence. Also, it provides a very deep bench of leading ISVs for other groups inside of HPE to leverage for their solutioning efforts. Speaking of industry leading ISV, it's about time and introduce you to two of those industry leaders right now. Let me welcome Daniel Hladky from Dataiku, and Omri Geller from Run:AI. So I'd like to introduce Daniel Hladky. Daniel is with Dataiku. He's a great partner for HPE. Daniel, welcome. >> Thank you for having me here. >> That's great. Hey, would you mind just talking a bit about how your partnership journey has been with HPE? >> Yes, pleasure. So the journey started about five years ago and in 2018 we signed a worldwide reseller agreement with HPE. And in 2020, we actually started to work jointly on the integration between the Dataiku Data Science Studio called DSS and integrated that with the Ezmeral Container platform, and was a great success. And it was on behalf of some clear customer projects. >> It's been a long partnership journey with you for sure with HPE. And we welcome your partnership extremely well. Just a brief question about the Container Platform and really what that's meant for Dataiku. >> Yes, Ron. Thanks. So, basically I like the quote here Florian Douetteau, which is the CEO of Dataiku, who said that the combination of Dataiku with the HPE Ezmeral Container Platform will help the customers to successfully scale and put machine learning projects into production. And this basically is going to deliver real impact for their business. So, the combination of the two of us is a great success. >> That's great. Can you talk about what Dataiku is doing and how HPE Ezmeral Container Platform fits in a solution offering a bit more? >> Great. So basically Dataiku DSS is our product which is a end to end data science platform, and basically brings value to the project of customers on their past enterprise AI. In simple ways, we can say it could be as simple as building data pipelines, but it could be also very complex by having machine and deep learning models at scale. So the fast track to value is by having collaboration, orchestration online technologies and the models in production. So, all of that is part of the Data Science Studio and Ezmeral fits perfectly into the part where we design and then basically put at scale those project and put it into product. >> That's perfect. Can you be a bit more specific about how you see HPE and Dataiku really tightening up a customer outcome and value proposition? >> Yes. So what we see is also the challenge of the market that probably about 80% of the use cases really never make it to production. And this is of course a big challenge and we need to change that. And I think the combination of the two of us is actually addressing exactly this need. What we can say is part of the MLOps approach, Dataiku and the Ezmeral Container Platform will provide a frictionless approach, which means without scripting and coding, customers can put all those projects into the productive environment and don't have to worry any more and be more business oriented. >> That's great. So you mentioned you're seeing customers be a lot more mature with their AI workloads and deployment. What do you suggest for the other customers out there that are just starting this journey or just thinking about how to get started? >> Yeah. That's a very good question, Ron. So what we see there is actually the challenge that people need to go on a pass of maturity. And this starts with a simple data pipelines, et cetera, and then basically move up the ladder and basically build large complex project. And here I see a very interesting offer coming now from HPE which is called D3S, which is the data science startup pack. That's something I discussed together with HPE back in early 2020. And basically, it solves the three stages, which is explore, experiment and evolve and builds quickly MVPs for the customers. By doing so, basically you addressed business objectives, lay out in the proper architecture and also setting up the proper organization around it. So, this is a great combination by HPE and Dataiku through the D3S. >> And it's a perfect example of what I mentioned earlier about leveraging the ecosystem program that we built to do deeper solutioning efforts inside of HPE in this case with our AI business unit. So, congratulations on that and thanks for joining us today. I'm going to shift gears. I'm going to bring in Omri Geller from Run:AI. Omri, welcome. It's great to have you. You guys are killing it out there in the market today. And I just thought we could spend a few minutes talking about what is so unique and differentiated from your offerings. >> Thank you, Ron. It's a pleasure to be here. Run:AI creates a virtualization and orchestration layer for AI infrastructure. We help organizations to gain visibility and control over their GPO resources and help them deliver AI solutions to market faster. And we do that by managing granular scheduling, prioritization, allocation of compute power, together with the HPE Ezmeral Container Platform. >> That's great. And your partnership with HPE is a bit newer than Daniel's, right? Maybe about the last year or so we've been working together a lot more closely. Can you just talk about the HPE partnership, what it's meant for you and how do you see it impacting your business? >> Sure. First of all, Run:AI is excited to partner with HPE Ezmeral Container Platform and help customers manage appeals for their AI workloads. We chose HPE since HPE has years of experience partnering with AI use cases and outcomes with vendors who have strong footprint in this markets. HPE works with many partners that are complimentary for our use case such as Nvidia, and HPE Ezmeral Container Platform together with Run:AI and Nvidia deliver a word about solution for AI accelerated workloads. And as you can understand, for AI speed is critical. Companies want to gather important AI initiatives into production as soon as they can. And the HPE Ezmeral Container Platform, running IGP orchestration solution enables that by enabling dynamic provisioning of GPU so that resources can be easily shared, efficiently orchestrated and optimal used. >> That's great. And you talked a lot about the efficiency of the solution. What about from a customer perspective? What is the real benefit that our customers are going to be able to gain from an HPE and Run:AI offering? >> So first, it is important to understand how data scientists and AI researchers actually build solution. They do it by running experiments. And if a data scientist is able to run more experiments per given time, they will get to the solution faster. With HPE Ezmeral Container Platform, Run:AI and users such as data scientists can actually do that and seamlessly and efficiently consume large amounts of GPU resources, run more experiments or given time and therefore accelerate their research. Together, we actually saw a customer that is running almost 7,000 jobs in parallel over GPUs with efficient utilization of those GPUs. And by running more experiments, those customers can be much more effective and efficient when it comes to bringing solutions to market >> Couldn't agree more. And I think we're starting to see a lot of joint success together as we go out and talk to the story. Hey, I want to thank you both one last time for being here with me today. It was very enlightening for our team to have you as part of the program. And I'm excited to extend this customer value proposition out to the rest of our communities. With that, I'd like to close today's session. I appreciate everyone's time. And keep an eye out on our ISP marketplace for Ezmeral We're continuing to expand and add new capabilities and new partners to our marketplace. We're excited to do a lot of great things and help you guys all be successful. Thanks for joining. >> Thank you, Ron. (bright upbeat music)

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR, this is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> The steepest drop in the stock market since June 11th flipped the narrative and sent investors scrambling. Tech got hammered after a two-month run, and people are asking questions. Is this a bubble popping, or is it a healthy correction? Are we now going to see a rotation into traditional stocks, like banks and maybe certain cyclicals that have lagged behind the technology winners? Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of Wikibon's CUBE Insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we want to give you our perspective on what's happening in the technology space and unpack what this sentiment flip means for the balance of 2020 and beyond. Let's look at what happened on September 3rd, 2020. The tech markets recoiled this week as the NASDAQ Composite dropped almost 5% in a single day. Apple's market cap alone lost $178 billion. The Big Four: Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, and Google lost a combined value that approached half a trillion dollars. For context, this number is larger than the gross domestic product for countries as large as Thailand, Iran, Austria, Norway, and even the UAE, and many more. The tech stocks that have been running due to COVID, well, they got crushed. These are the ones that we've highlighted as best positioned to thrive during the pandemic, you know, the work-from-home, SaaS, cloud, security stocks. We really have been talking about names like Zoom, ServiceNow, Salesforce, DocuSign, Splunk, and the security names like CrowdStrike, Okta, Zscaler. By the way, DocuSign and CrowdStrike and Okta all had nice earnings beats, but they still got killed underscoring the sentiment shift. Now the broader tech market was off as well on sympathy, and this trend appears to be continuing into the Labor Day holiday. Now why is this happening, and why now? Well, there are a lot of opinions on this. And first, many, like myself, are relatively happy because this market needed to take a little breather. As we've said before, the stock market, it's really not reflecting the realities of the broader economy. Now as we head into September in an election year, uncertainty kicks in, but it really looks like this pullback was fueled by a combination of an overheated market and technical factors. Specifically, take a look at volatility indices. They were high and rising, yet markets kept rising along with them. Robinhood millennial investors who couldn't bet on sports realized that investing in stocks was as much of a rush and potentially more lucrative. The other big wave, which was first reported by the Financial Times, is that SoftBank made a huge bet on tech and bought options tied to around $50 billion worth of high-flying tech stocks. So the option call volumes skyrocketed. The call versus put ratio was getting way too hot, and we saw an imbalance in the market. Now market makers will often buy an underlying stock to hedge call options to ensure liquidity in these cases. So to be more specific, delta in options is a measure of the change in the price of an option relative to the underlying stock, and gamma is a measure of the volatility of the delta. Now usually, volatility is relatively consistent on both sides of the trade, the calls and the puts, because investors often hedge their bets. But in the case of many of these hot stocks, like Tesla, for example, you've seen the call skew be much greater than the skew in the downside. So let's take an example. If people are buying cheap out of the money calls, a market maker might buy the underlying stock to hedge for liquidity. And then if Elon puts out some good news, which he always does, the stock goes up. Market makers have to then buy more of the underlying stock. And then algos kick in to buy even more. And then the price of the call goes up. And as it approaches it at the money price, this forces market makers to keep buying more of that underlying stock. And then the melt up until it stops. And then the market flips like it did this week. When stock prices begin to drop, then market makers were going to rebalance their portfolios and their risk and sell their underlying stocks, and then the rug gets pulled out from the markets. And that's really why some of the stocks that have run dropped so precipitously. Okay, why did I spend so much time on this, and why am I not freaking out? Because I think these market moves are largely technical versus fundamental. It's not like 1999. We had a double whammy of technical rug pulls combined with poor underlying fundamentals for high-flying companies like CMGI and Internet Capital Group, whose businesses, they were all about placing bets on dot-coms that had no business models other than non-monetizable eyeballs. All right, let's take a look at the NASDAQ and dig into the data a little bit. And I think you'll see what I mean and why I'm not too concerned. This is a year-to-date chart of the NASDAQ, and you can see it bottomed on March 23rd at 6,860. And then ran up until June 11th and had that big drop, but was still elevated at 9,492. And then it ran up to over 12,000 and hit an all-time high. And then you see the big drop. And that trend continued on Friday morning. The NASDAQ Composite traded below 11,000. It actually corrected to 10% of its high, 9.8% to be precise, and then it snapped back. But even at its low, that's still up over 20% for the year. In the year of COVID, would that have surprised you in March? It certainly would have surprised me. So to me, this pullback is sort of a relief. It's good and actually very normal and quite predictable. Now the exact timing of these pullbacks, of course, on the other hand is not entirely predictable. Not at all, frankly, at least for this observer. So the big question is where do we go from here? So let's talk about that a little bit. Now the economy continues to get better. Take a look at the August job report; it was good. 1.4 million new jobs, 340,000 came from the government. That was positive numbers. And the other good news is it translates into a drop in unemployment under 10%. It's now at 8.4%. And this is really good relative to expectations. Now the sell-off continued, which suggested that the market wanted to keep correcting, so that's good. Maybe some buying opportunities would emerge in over the next several months, the market snapped back, but for those who have been waiting, I think that's going to happen. And so that snapback, maybe that's an indicator that the market wants to keep going up, we'll see. But I think there are more opportunities ahead because there's really so much uncertainty. What's going to happen with the next round of the stimulus? The jobs report, maybe that's a catalyst for compromise between the Democrats and the Republicans, maybe. The US debt is projected to exceed 100% of GDP this calendar year. That's the highest it's been since World War II. Does that give you a good feeling? That doesn't give me a good feeling. And when we talk about the election, that brings additional uncertainty. So there's a lot to think about for the markets. Now let's talk about what this means for tech. Well, as we've been projecting for months with our colleagues at ETR, despite what's going on in the stock market and its rise, there's those real tech winners, we still see a contraction in 2020 for IT spend of minus 5 to 8%. And we talk a lot about the bifurcation in the market due to COVID accelerating some of these trends that were already in place, like digital transformation and SaaS and cloud. And then the work-from-home kicks in with other trends like video conferencing and the shift to security spend. And we think this is going to continue for years. However, because these stocks have run up so much, they're going to have very tough compares in 2021. So maybe time for a pause. Now let's take a look at the IT spending macroeconomics. This data is from a series of surveys that ETR conducted to try to better understand spending patterns due to COVID. Those yellow slices of the pies show the percent of customers that indicate that their budgets will be impacted by coronavirus. And you can see there's a steady increase from mid-March, which blend into April, and then you can see the June data. It goes from 63% saying yes, which is very high, to 78%, which is very, very high. And the bottom part of the chart shows the degree of that change. So 22% say no change in the latest survey, but you can see much more of a skew to the red declines on the left versus the green upticks on the right-hand side of the chart. Now take a look at how IT buyers are seeing the response to the pandemic. This chart shows what companies are doing as a result of COVID in another recent ETR survey. Now of course, it's no surprise, everybody's working from home. Nobody's traveling for business, not nobody, but most people aren't, we know that. But look at the increase in hiring freezes and freezing new IT deployments, and the sharp rise in layoffs. So IT is yet again being asked to do more with less. They're used to it. Well, we see this driving an acceleration to automation, and that's going to benefit, for instance, the RPA players, cloud providers, and modern software vendors. And it will also precipitate a tailwind for more aggressive AI implementations. And many other selected names are going to continue to do well, which we'll talk about in a second, but they're in the work-from-home, the cloud, the SaaS, and the modern data sectors. But the problem is those sectors are not large enough to offset the declines in the core businesses of the legacy players who have a much higher market share, so the overall IT spend declines. Now where it gets kind of interesting is the legacy companies, look, they all have growth businesses. They're making acquisitions, they're making other bets. IBM, for example, has its hybrid cloud business in Red Hat, Dell has VMware and it's got work-from-home solutions, Oracle has SaaS and cloud, Cisco has its security business, HPE, it's as a service initiative, and so forth. And again, these businesses are growing faster, but they are not large enough to offset the decline in core on-prem legacy and drive anything more than flat growth, overall, for these companies at best. And by the time they're large enough, we'll be into the next big thing, so the cycle continues. But these legacy companies are going to compete with the upstarts, and that's where it gets interesting. So let's get into some of the specific names that we've been talking about for over a year now and make some comments around their prospects. So what we want to do is let's start with one of our favorites: Snowflake. Now Snowflake, along with Asana, JFrog, Sumo Logic, and Unity, has a highly anticipated upcoming IPO. And this chart shows new adoptions in the database sector. And you can see that Snowflake, while down from the October 19th survey, is far outpacing its competitors, with the exception of Google, where BigQuery is doing very well. But you see Mongo and AWS remain strong, and I'm actually quite encouraged that it looks like Cloudera has righted the ship and you kind of saw that in their earnings recently. But my point is that Snowflake is a share gainer, and we think will likely continue to be one for a number of quarters and years if they can execute and compete with the big cloud players, and that's a topic that we've covered extensively in previous Breaking Analysis segments, and, as you know, we think Snowflake can compete. Now let's look at automation. This is another space that we've been talking about quite a bit, and we've largely focused on two leaders: UiPath and Automation Anywhere. But I have to say, I still like Blue Prism. I think they're well-positioned. And I especially like Pegasystems, which has, for years, been embarking on a broader automation agenda. What this chart shows is net score or spending velocity data for those customers who said they were decreasing spend in 2020. Those red bars that we showed earlier are the ones who are decreasing. And you can see both Automation Anywhere and UiPath show elevated levels within that base where spending is declining, so that's a real positive. Now Microsoft, as we've reported, is elbowing its way into the market with what is currently an inferior point product, but, you know, it's Microsoft, so we can't ignore that. And finally, let's have a look at the all-important security sector, which we've covered extensively and put out a report recently. So what this next chart does is cherry-picks of a few of our favorite names, and it shows the net score or spending momentum and the granularity for some of the leaders and emerging players. All of these players are in the green, as you can see in the upper right, and they all have decent presence in the dataset as indicated by the shared NS. Okta is at the top of the list with 58% net score. Palo Alto, they're a more mature player, but still, they have an elevated net score. CrowdStrike's net score dropped this quarter, which was a bit of a concern, but it's still high. And it followed by SailPoint and Zscaler, who are right there. The big three trends in this space right now are cloud security, identity access management, and endpoint security. Those are the tailwinds, and we think these trends have legs. Remember, net score in this survey is a forward-looking metric, so we'll come back and look at the next survey, which is running this month in the field from ETR. Now everyone on this chart has reported earnings, except Zscaler, which reports on September 9th, and all of these companies are doing well and exceeding expectations, but as I said earlier, next year's compares won't be so easy. Oh, and by the way, their stock prices, they all got killed this week as a result of the rug pull that we explained earlier. So we really feel this isn't a fundamental problem for these firms that we're talking about. It's more of a technical in the market. Now Automation Anywhere and UiPath, you really don't know because they're not public and I think they need to get their house in order so they can IPO, so we'll see when they make it to public markets. I don't think that's an if, that I think they will IPO, but the fact that they haven't filed yet says they're not ready. Now why wouldn't you IPO if you are ready in this market despite the recent pullbacks? Okay, let's summarize. So listen, all you new investors out there that think stock picking is easy, look, any fool can make money in a market that goes up every day, but trees don't grow to the moon and there are bulls and bears and pigs, and pigs get slaughtered. And I can throw a dozen other cliches at you, but I am excited that you're learning. You maybe have made a few bucks playing the options game. It's not as easy as you might think. And I'm hoping that you're not trading on margin. But look, I think there are going to be some buying opportunities ahead, there always are, be patient. It's very hard, actually impossible, to time markets, and I'm a big fan of dollar-cost averaging. And young people, if you make less than $137,000 a year, load up on your Roth, it's a government gift that I wish I could have tapped when I was a newbie. And as always, please do your homework. Okay, that's it for today. Remember, these episodes, they're all available as podcasts, wherever you listen, so please subscribe. I publish weekly on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com, so check that out, and please do comment on my LinkedIn posts. Don't forget, check out etr.plus for all the survey action. Get in touch on Twitter, I'm @dvellante, or email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, everyone. Be well, and we'll see you next time. (gentle upbeat music)

>> Woman: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Okay welcome back already Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in our Palo Alto Studios here. Can't believe we just turned the calendar on September the 1st of 2020. What a year, it's cruising by. And one of the big topics obviously is working from home, we're seeing more and more companies telling everybody to expect to work from home through the end of the year or into next year, some are even saying indefinitely. And we've got an expert coming on the show that we're excited to have back. It's Dr. Karen Sobel Lojeski. She is the founder and CEO and author of "Virtual Distance and the Virtual Distance Company". Karen, great to see you. >> Great to see you too Jeff, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely, so I wanted to get you back on for a couple reasons. One is we first met at the ACGSV, Association for Corporate Growth Silicon Valley 2018 Awards, about two years ago was summer of 2018. And at that point, you introduced me to the concept and our audience, to the concept of virtual distance, which if I can summarize is basically communicating through devices versus face-to-face, like we're doing here. And the bad things that come from that and challenges and this and the other. Who knew that two years from then we would all be forced and not asked, but forced to basically go to a work-from-home environment and increase the frequency and use of using electronic devices to communicate not only for work, but also for social stuff, for school, for everything, so, oh my goodness, you happen to be in the right place at the right time for not necessarily the greatest of reasons, but wow, I mean, how amazing this transformation that we've all been forced to since the middle of March. First off, get your thoughts on that and then we'll dive into what people should be thinking about, what people should be doing about it and how they can, I want to say make the most, but it does kind of make the most of, not necessarily the greatest situation. >> Yeah, well, I could have never imagined when we were sitting out at that round table outside the room where we had dinner that we'd be here two years later, right, talking about virtual distances, you said in the context of everyone having to be isolated from each other and working from home. Obviously, like everyone on the planet, I think I would never have wanted to see this happen. But I feel fortunate in a way to have put this out there many years ago because today it's serving a lot of different organizations, corporations, schools, even government organizations to have a very steady framework that's based on 15 years of data, to understand how to make the best, as you said, of this situation and to reduce some of the negative consequences of virtual distance and actually use the framework as a way to get to know people better and really see them more as human beings in a way that helps them through not just their work life, but also through the family challenges that they're having with every kid now, sort of going back to school, many of them online, there's a lot of virtual distance that can crop up even in the house. But I guess I just, I'm glad that I discovered virtual distance, and that it's useful in this time. >> Right, right. So let's jump into it. And actually I want to skip to the end of the book before we get into the beginning of the book because you talked about leadership and when this thing first hit, we had a number of leaders from the community, talking about leading through trying times. And most great leaders know that their primary job is really communication, right? Communication to their teams, communication to their constituents, communication to their customers. COVID has really changed the communication challenges and increase them dramatically and most of the stuff we're hearing is that leaders need to communicate more frequently and in more variety, both in terms of topics as well as communication forms. How does that kind of jive with your studies on virtual distance and leadership, given the fact that there aren't a lot of other options in terms of face-to-face or a little bit more intimate things? They have to use these electronic means. So what tips do you have for leaders, as they suddenly were told everybody's working from home starting like tomorrow? >> Yeah, well, it's funny that you asked me that because we learned early on when I started looking at this phenomenon in the early 2000s. We learned early on that it actually takes a lot more work and time to lead virtually than it does in more traditional environments. And the reason is because a leader really has to bring forward a lot of context that tends to go underground or become invisible about other people when we're working virtually. So the leader already was under a lot of pressure if you will, to communicate much more than they had been in more traditional settings because a lot of the information and knowledge and intelligence if you will, about the company was available in the context of the environment and other people. So leaders were already on track to having to communicate much more in order to make make remote work and virtual work work. Well, which of course it can. >> Right. >> But what happened was, we found that when suddenly a light switch is turned off, leaders needed to communicate even more. And that is kind of standard crisis management leadership. We talked a little bit about that in the past, right? So we can look at the situation we're in as not just an acute crisis that came to bear in early January and then sort of everything locking down in March. But we can kind of look at this as a long-term leadership crisis management strategy on top of just over communicating to do better in virtual space. And in a crisis management situation you definitely want to have even more communication, but it's also an opportunity actually to develop other leaders behind you on teams that can also communicate as well, to share that responsibility, to share that leadership commitment to a lot of communication during times like this, that actually works really well. >> Right, 'cause one of the things you talked about that's super, super important, more important actually than physical distance or the virtual distance is what you called the affinity distance, and I think it ties back to another point in the book in terms of clarity of communication from the leadership. What are the goals, what is the vision? And reinforcing that at a rate and frequency much higher than they've ever done before to build that affinity so people can continue to feel like they're part of something beyond more just the tasks and the roles and the assignments that I have to do every day. >> Yeah, that's exactly right, Jeff. So again, we found early on. And it was a surprise to us at first, but then became kind of obvious that people tend to think that the real challenge with virtual work is physical distance, right, sort of the space between us in terms of a geography or a geographic separation. And what we learned early on through the statistics, as well as sort of common sense was that actually physical distance had the least impact on corporate outcomes than any of the other three factors. So the affinity distance piece is really all about, how do I gain an affinity for someone when I really don't know that much about them. And I don't know much about their context in the moment that we're talking, and I also just know less about them in general when we're virtual. >> Right. >> So affinity distance is much more important than the physical separation because it's what holds us together and allows us to build very, very deep relationships which we can count on and trust no matter what the situation is. And yeah, doing that in these times is very important. >> So it's funny, right? 'Cause so much of the problems that we have with communications are in the subtle feedback mechanisms that aren't necessarily in the overt communication and as you said, those can be lost in a lot of channels. What's kind of (chuckles) interesting that's going on with COVID is we're actually seeing a side of people that we never did see in the physical space, right. Now we're literally being invited into everyone's home. I mean, I'm in your home office, I can see your books on your bookshelf and people are bringing people into their home which they may not have done before or been comfortable. Not only that, but the spouse is there, he or she is working from home. The kids are there, they're doing their school from home, the occasional dog or pet or other thing kind of jumping through the screen. So it's this weird kind of juxtaposition. On one hand you've lost a whole lot of kind of subtle communication reinforcers. On the other hand, you're getting kind of a whole new kind of the human side aspect in terms of who these people are and what they're all about, that you never necessarily had before. So I think the blending of the whole self is probably been elevated, even though the communication challenges without having kind of all these subtle feedback loops that we really rely on, are gone. So when you think about communication and communication methods based on communication messages and what you're trying to do, how do you tell people to think about that? What types of communications should be done in which ways to make them the most effective and avoid some of the real problems that come from the wrong type of communication on the wrong type of channel? >> Yeah, so first of all, you make some great points. Because it really is when we invite people into our home via these kind of video links, people see a different side of us, a contextualized side to us that they normally wouldn't see. And that opens the door, as you said, to having other communications. I think before I get directly to your question, one thing that strikes me about what you say is that this is truly a shared experience, right? So all of us are being impacted by COVID-19, the economics of the situation, the childcare issues that are raised by the situation, the community issues that we all have in our towns or cities. And we're sharing that experience, which is a great jumping off point in terms of communications because we actually have a very similar context from which were working. In terms of which communications to use when. This is a really important question, I had a person from a very, very large tech company that people use every day to go look for things on the Internet, call me and tell me at one point early, sort of early on in the pandemic that some of his people were starting to beg him to turn off the video screens. (chuckles) And just use audio because sometimes when we're overwhelmed with a crisis the video can be helpful, but it can also sort of be overwhelming. So it's important to understand sort of when to discern, when to use audio and when to use visual, when to use email and when to use tax. And the basic tips here is that email has really never been good to explain ourselves to other people. It's been great to set up lunch dates or an appointment and things like that. So email should be used pretty sparingly. Audio is really great if we don't have video, but we also just kind of need a rest from video. And we also need to really focus on a person's voice very, very intensely. So if we're trying to solve a really critical problem that's a little bit conceptual, sometimes audio can can be more helpful. Video is obviously great because it gives us all this context and it allows people to see into our home and hear our cats kind of screaming at each other which is happening right now in my house. But it also lets us see each other's expressions and a little bit of the facial communication that we need in order to know if people are okay with what we're saying, if they're quizzical and looking like they kind of don't understand et cetera, The overarching goal of communications in a situation like this, that I talk a lot about in the book, is to mix up modes of communication as much as you can think about that, right? Because we get context as I've just explained in different ways through different modes. And so if we mix it up, if I say well, I've talked to Jeff a lot over video maybe I'll just give him a call today. Or I've been using a lot of email to talk to one of my colleagues in Norway, maybe I should really try to set up a video call that is very helpful because it gives us dimensionality to someone's personality as well as their context. >> Yeah, that's a really interesting point. I think most people are always saying turn on the video, turn on the video, we want to see everybody's face but as this thing continues to go and go and go and it's going to go for the foreseeable future, and people are going to get fatigue, right, people are getting Zoom fatigue. That's a really interesting and simple way to I think, kind of lessen the stress a little bit by telling people, let's just turn the video off. We don't necessarily need to see each other, we know what we look like. And if you feel some reason to turn it on, you can turn it on, but having that as an option, I think that's a really insightful. And the other thing I want to focus on is it's not all negative, right? I mean, there's a lot of studies about the open office plan, which didn't necessarily work so well, and we've had conversations with a lot of people that say, just because you throw everybody in a room together doesn't mean that they're necessarily going to communicate more and there aren't necessarily the water cooler chatter that you're kind of hoping for. And in fact, you have a bunch of stats in the book here about remote workers having actually a lot of success. They have less trouble with technology, they can cope best with multiple projects. There's so many less interruptions, (chuckles) assuming the rest of the family has a place to work. But you don't get kind of the work interruptions that you would in terms of actually getting projects done. So, it's not all bad. And I think there's a lot of things that we can help people think about to really take advantage or make the most of the opportunity, to take advantage is probably the wrong word. So, vary communications, frequency in communications is certainly a good one. What are other ways that people kind of build trust? 'Cause you talk a lot about trust and feeling part of something bigger and not letting the individual tasks and the little day-to-day things that we do get in the way of still feeling like you belong to something that's important, that you care about, with your teammates that you want to move forward. >> Yeah, so the it's a great question, and again I think, obviously, amongst sort of the darkness there's always sort of opportunities to see some light. And I think one of the ways that we can see light through working this way at this time is to expand our understanding of the people that we're working with, right? And we can do that in a framework, it doesn't have to be haphazard. So when we look at affinity, what we really want to do is to bring forward the way people feel about their value systems, what's important to them about work in sort of pre-COVID or BC, right before COVID, but also what's important to them about their family life or about the situation that's happening, that's interacting with and integrating with their work life. So asking those questions in ways that are not guised, but sort of directly asking them things about what they value? How they feel that they're interdependent on other people? Why other people are important to them in their work, as well as just in their day-to-day lives? Those are the kinds of opportunities for questions around things that are not work related, are not party Friday, which are also kind of fun things right? But that get more to the core of who a person is, that whole person that you were talking about. And that allows us to see so much more deeply, ironically, into that human being. And when you talk about purpose, and really wanting to feel like we're part of something bigger than ourselves, those kinds of insights that build affinity help us help other people. So, we tend to focus on task orientation and goals and deliverables and all that which is absolutely critical for business continuity, and to get through the day and focus our attention. But actually what makes people feel really good about their day as a person is often how they can help other people. And so if we draw this closer affinity, we can actually figure out ways to help other people. And that just lifts everybody up and makes the work product actually even better. >> Right, right, I've always ascribed to the theory that right, if you spend your work helping other people do their work better, easier, get roadblocks out of the way, whatever, be an enabler, then you're getting this multiplier effect because I'm doing my work and I'm helping somebody else be more efficient. And it's a very different way to kind of think about work in terms of helping everybody be more effective, more efficient, and as you said, you get this great multiplier effect, but I want to shift gears a little bit. And this sentence, just jumped out of your book. I'm actually going to read from it, that despite the fact that many leadership challenges are new, we continue to over rely on management thinking and solutions that are fundamentally designed around outdated assumptions. I mean, to me this is such a huge thing. We had Martin Mikason at the beginning of this process and his great line, and he's managed remote companies for years and multiple companies. And he said, it's so easy to fake it in the office, right? It's so easy to look busy. (Karen chuckles) Whereas when you're working from home, the only thing you have to show is your output. And that's what you're graded on, your output. And yet when this thing first hit, we saw all types of new products coming out that are basically spyware for the employees, how often are you sitting in front of your computer? How often are you on a Zoom call? How often are you, doing these things? And it's striking to me that it's such an outdated way to measure activity, versus a way to measure outcome and output and what are you trying to do? I mean, it just drives me crazy to hear those things, I just love to get your take that people still are mixed up about what they're supposed to be measuring and what the purpose of the whole task is, which is to get output done not just to be busy and sit in Zoom calls all day. >> It's so true. So there's sort of two prongs to that question. And two very important things to look at. So one is how do we measure productivity, right among knowledge workers, which has been the topic of a lot of conversation. And the other thing is, what have leadership models been built off of in the past, right? If you just take the first thing first. Productivity today, if you go to the Bureau of Labor Statistics website, you will still see productivity defined as how many widgets can I produce in an hour. That's still today, how we measure productivity, even though (chuckles) all of our output or most of our output, right, is coming from our knowledge, our thinking, our problem solving. (clears throat) So the notion of productivity feels very heavy handed to a lot of people, because it's still rooted literally economics wise in this notion of x widgets per hour, which just doesn't fit. And that comes through the second point, which is our leadership models, right? So I talked in the book and I've been talking about this for many years, because it just jumped out at me when I started to do this research, is that if you look at most leadership models today, any one of them, pick whatever one you like, transformational leadership, transactional leadership, situational leadership or whatever it might be. Those leadership models were built mainly in the 1950s. And some of them came later in the 80s. We have a few new ones, (clears throat) excuse me that have come after the internet, but not too many. And fundamentally, if you look at the communication mode of leaders in the 50s, and the 80s, it was face-to-face or phone. I mean, just by definition, was in person or via phone. But that assumption doesn't hold true anymore and hasn't held true for a good 15 years. And yet, in every business school today, we still use those leadership models as sort of our first run at how to lead. It's not that they're not useful and helpful and don't have extremely good words of advice for leaders. But the main thing leaders do is communicate. So if the fundamental channel over which leaders are communicating has completely changed, it seems natural that we should be looking for new leadership models (chuckles) that fit our times a little bit better. Taking pieces of the best of those leadership models, but really turning them on their head and saying, what's really a better approach when fundamentally our communication mode itself, it has completely changed. >> Right right. >> And that's what we do as leaders. >> And I do just want to say a word. We're talking about working from home and knowledge workers and unfortunately, there's a whole lot of people going through COVID right now that don't have that option, right. If you're in the travel industry, if you're in the hospitality industry, if you're in a lot of services industries, if you are a plumber, you can't go virtual as a plumber, unfortunately. So just to acknowledge that, what we're talking about applies to a lot of people, but certainly not everyone and everyone doesn't have these options. So I just wanted to mention that but before we wrap, Karen, the thing that struck me, as you're talking about kind of the 50s and the organizational structure, was it was really command and control and just top down hierarchies that dictated what people did. And then you as you said, your job was to put so many widgets on the widget receiver per hour, and that's what you were graded on. Where in knowledge workers, it's a very different thing. And in fact, you shouldn't tell people how to do things, you should tell people what the objectives are, and then see what they come up with. And hopefully, they'll come up with lots of different ways to achieve the objective, most of which that management has never thought of, they're not down in the weeds, and you get all kinds of interesting and diversity of opinion and different approaches. And kind of a DevOps mentality where you try lots of things and you'll find new ways to get it done. So I want to close out on this final kind of communication piece for leadership. And this is the why. I think back in the 50s, I don't know that the why we was that important. Or maybe it was and I'm not giving it enough credit. But today the why is so important. That is such a big piece of why do I come to work every day? And why am I important to work with my colleagues and move this mission forward. And so whenever you can just share, how important the why is today, and then how important the why is in trying to build a culture and hold people together when they are now by rule distributed all over the place. Talk a little bit about the why. >> Yeah, I love that question, Jeff. Because in the book, I talk a lot about Taylorism. And Taylor was the founder of like bureaucratic management and leadership and he actually despised the worker. (chuckles) There's actually a little piece in the book where he's testifying to Congress and saying that the man who handles pig iron, a type of steel, wasn't intelligent enough to understand what pig iron really was, he got a lot of flak for that. (chuckles) So as we've evolved, right, and as we've grown as organizations into knowledge workers, and I think your point about not everyone is a quote unquote, knowledge worker, is really, really important. The bottom line is, we're trying to measure our output and the value of our work by these older standards. And so people are struggling a little bit with that sort of disconnect, and looking for why, what purpose do they have? What is their bigger purpose? How are they connected to the organization in new ways? And there's actually an excellent analogy in the Navy. Is has its traditions in the Navy, called Commander's Intent which I talk about. So if you think of ships that used to sail, right out to sea, and they had lots of goals about either taking over a certain country or whatever it was they were doing, they couldn't be together, right. So we've been working remotely for a very long time. So the commander would gather all of his lieutenants, and basically tell them what his or, there were no hers at that time, but what his intentions were. And the lieutenants, the captains of the other ships, would go out to each ship, and they wouldn't follow a blueprint tactical plan they would just have the Commander's Intent as their guide. And then they were free actually, to use whatever strategies and tactics that they thought of and that worked in their context in order to fulfill the Commander's Intent, but they weren't given a blueprint. Their goal was really to use their own smarts, their own critical thinking in order to carry forward that intent. And I think that idea is very powerful today because I think if leaders can focus on helping their workers, their employees, their ecosystem partners, supply chain partners, whatever it may be, understand what the intent of the company is, and show that they trust the employees or the partner to deliver on that intent, with whatever means and creativity and imagination, guided by the intent, can be used and selected from on their day-to-day lives, people will feel so much more empowered and still get to the same outcome or actually better, than if they're told do A, B, C and D. So this idea of leader intent, I think would serve companies really well during this time, and if I could just add one other quick thing. There's another idea that comes out of sort of the military that I used and doing some work with leadership crisis management after 9-11. Around this notion of net-centricity. Net-centricity is sort of allowing people on the ground to sort of form their own networks and push information up to leadership so that they can make certain decisions and then push those decisions down with an intention back to the ground, so that this network can operate with some freedom and flexibility. And I think corporations can put net-centricity actually into place in a structured way and they'll find themselves with a lot more flexibility, higher levels of business continuity and effectiveness, and perhaps, most importantly, giving a sense of more meaningfulness and purpose and powerfulness, or self actualization back to the worker. >> Right, right, as you're speaking the word I just can't get out of my head is trust, right? It's so much about trust. And then giving people the power, enabling people the power that you trust to go do the jobs that you've hired them to do. And then to the other point that we talked about, then as a leader, help them remove roadblocks. Give them the tools, do the things that you can do to help them do their job better, versus to your point, being super prescriptive on the road actions that you wish that they would do, and then managing to the completion of the road, actions versus the accomplishment of the bigger task. It seems so simple, it's so hard for so many people to grok. It just, it still just amazes me that so many folks are unfortunately still stuck in that old paradigm. But you can't anymore 'cause everybody's (chuckles) working from home, so you better get with the program. >> (clears throat) Yeah, I'm sorry, I have a little frog in my throat. But you can. And just to add to what you're saying. I think the best thing that leaders can do is also expand their understanding of the worker as no longer just coming to work in some kind of bubble. They're coming to work with all kinds of personal situations. And I've had clients who have sort of tried to get away from that and keep the worker in a bubble. And I think, to be successful as we get through this sort of long-term leadership crisis, I think it's important to lean in to the chaos. Lean into the complexities that COVID, the pandemic, the economic situation bring and see the corporation and their role as leaders as trying to help that whole person with the complexities of their life, as opposed to trying to divorce them from their life, because that has not worked. And what works best, and I've seen this over and over again, is that companies that lean into the crisis, embrace it, and really try to help that whole employee who's coming to work in their house, really, really works very well. >> Yeah, it's going to be interesting as we come out of the summer and go back into the fall, which is the traditional season of kids going back to school and everybody kind of going back to work, and in our world conferences, and it's kind of the ramp up of a busy activity until we get kind of to the Christmas season again coming off of summer, now knowing that isn't a temporary situation, this isn't going away anytime soon. I mean, we used to talk about the new normal in March or April and May. Well now talking about the new normal in September, October, November and into 2021 is a whole different deal. So to your point, I think that's a great tip, lean in, do the best you can, learn from the experts. You don't need to do it by yourself. There's lots of documentation out there. Darren Murph has stuff up from GitHub. Or excuse me GitLab. There's lot of good information. So you do have to kind of buy into it and embrace it, 'cause it's not it's not going away. So these are great tips Karen and I give you this, the last word before we sign off. Of all the work you've done, all the clients you've worked with, a couple of two or three really good nuggets that are really simple things that everybody should be thinking about and doing today. >> I think, there's the Waldorf Schools out by you on the west coast, right, have a motto that they use for education. And it it says in through the heart out through the mind. And I think more than ever, leadership and business can borrow that idea. I think we have to sort of look at things in through the heart. And then, distribute our directions and our leadership out through the mind. At the end of the day (chuckles) we're all human beings that are all struggling in this shared experience, something that has literally never happened on planet earth with 8 billion people, connected through technology with a global pandemic. And so if we kind of can make a shift and think about taking things in through the heart and then delivering out through the mind. I think that a lot of people will feel that compassion. And that will translate into the kind of trust that we're trying to build between all of us to get through it together. And I think when we do that, I have a lot of confidence in the human spirit that we will get through it. People will be able to look back and say, yes, this was very difficult and horrific on many levels, but at the end of the day, maybe there's a little bit of a renaissance in how we sort of look at each other and treat each other with compassion and some love and joy, even in the worst of times. I think that translates over any communication medium (chuckles) including the one we're using today. >> Well, Karen, thank you for the time and thank you for closing this with a little bit of light. Congrats again on the book, "The Power of Virtual Distance", I'm sure it's available everywhere. And again, great to see you. >> Thank you so much Jeff, you too. >> All right. >> Take care. >> She's Karen, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (soothing music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering Google Cloud. Next on Air 20. Hi, I'm Stew Minimum And and this is the Cube's coverage of Google Cloud next 20 on air, Of course. Last year we were all in person in San Francisco. This year it's an online experience. It's actually spanning many weeks and this week when we're releasing the Cube interviews, talking about application modernization, happy to welcome back program two of our Cube alumni. Chris Well, I've got Aparna Sinha, Uh, who is the director of product management, and joining her is Pali Bhat, who's the vice president of product and design, both with Google Cloud Poly. Welcome back. Thanks so much for joining us. >>Thank you. Good to be here. >>Well, so it goes without saying it. That 2020 has had quite a lot of changes. Really affect it. Start with you. You know, obviously there's been a lot of discussion is what is the impact of the global pandemic? The ripple in the economy on cloud. So I would love to hear a little bit. You know what you're hearing from your customers. What? That impact has been on on you and your business. >>Yes to thank thank you for asking as I look at our customers, what's been most inspiring for me to see is how organizations and the people in those organizations are coming together to help each other during this unprecedented event. And one of the things I wanted to highlight is, as we all adjust to this sort of new normal, there are two things that I keep seeing across every one of our customers. Better operation efficiency, with the focus on cost saving is something that's a business imperative and has drawn urgency. And the second bit is an increased focus on agility and business innovation. In the current atmosphere, where digital has truly become gone from being one of the channels being D channel, we're seeing our customers respond by being more innovative and reaching their customers in the way that they want to be rich. And that's been, for me personally, very inspiring to see. And we turned on Google Cloud to be a part of helping our customers in this journey in terms of our business itself. We're seeing tremendous momentum around our organization business because it plays directly into these two business imperatives around operational efficiency, cost saving and, of course, business innovation and agility. In Q two of 2020 we saw more than 100,000 companies use our application modernization platform across G ke and those cloud functions Cloud Run and our developers tools. So we've been, uh, just tagged with the response of how customers are using our tools in order to help them run their businesses, operate more efficiently and be more innovative on behalf of their customers. So we're seeing customers use everything from building mission critical applications who then securing, migrating and then operating our services. And we've also seen that customers get tremendous benefits. We've seen up to a 35% increase simply by using our own migration tools. And we've also seen it up to 75% improvement to all of the automation and re platform ing that they can do with our monetization platform. That's been incredible. What I do want to do. Those have a partner chime in on some of the complexity that these customers are seeing and how we're going about trying to address that >>Yes, eso to help our customers with the application modernization journey. Google Cloud really offers three highly differentiated capabilities. Us to the first one is really providing a consistent development and operations experience, and this is really important because you want the same experience, regardless of whether you're running natively in Google Cloud or you're running across clouds or you're running hybrid or you're running at the edge. And I think this is a truly unique differentiator off what we offer. Secondly, we really give customers and their developers industry leading guidance. And this is particularly important because there's a set of best practices on how you do development, how you run these applications, how you operate them in production for high reliability, a exceptional security staff, the stature and for the maximum developer efficiency on. And we provide the platform and the tooling to do that so that it can be customized to it's specific customers needs and their specific place on that modernization journey. And then the third thing on and I think this is incredibly important as well is that we would ride a data driven approach, a data driven optimization and benchmarking approach so that we can tell you where you are with regard to best practice and then help you move towards best practice, no matter where you're starting. >>Yeah, well, thank you, Aparna and Polly definitely resonates with what we're hearing. You know, customers need to be data driven. And then there's the imperative Now that digital movement Pali last year at the show, of course, Antos was, you know, really the talk of the conference years gone by. We know things move really fast, so if you could, you know, probably don't have time to get all of the news, but share with us the updates what differentiated this year along from a new standpoint, >>Yeah, So we've got tremendous set off improvements to the platform. And one of the things that I wanted to just share was that our customers as they actually migrate on to onto the cloud and begin the modernization journeys in their digital transformation programs. What we're seeing over and over is those customers that start with the platform as opposed to an individual application, are set up for success in the future. The platform, of course, is an tos where your application modernization journey begins. In terms of updates, we're gonna share a series off updates in block post, etcetera. I just want to highlight a few. We're sharing their availability off Antos for their middle swathe things that our customers have been asking about. And now our customers get to run on those on Prem and at the edge without the need for a hyper visor. What this does is helps organizations minimize unnecessary overhead and ultimately unlock all of the new cloud and edge use case. The second bit is we're not in the GF our speech to text on prem capability, but this is our first hybrid AI capability. So customers like Iron Mountain get to use hybrid AI, so they have full control of the infrastructure and have control off their data so they can implement data residency and compliance while still leveraging all of Google Cloud AI capabilities. Third services identity again. This extends existing identity solutions so that you can seamlessly work on and those workloads again. This is going to be generally available for on premise customers and better for Antos on AWS, and you're going to see more and more customers be able to leverage their existing identity investments while still getting the consistency that Anton's provides across environments. In the last one that I like to highlight is on those attached clusters, which lets customers bring any kubernetes conforming cluster on Toronto's and still take advantage of the advanced capabilities that until provides like declarative configurations and service automation. So one of the customers I just want to call out is Cold just built it. Entire hybrid cloud strategy on Anton's Day began with the platform first, and now we're seeing a record number of customers on Cold Start camaraderie. Take advantage of Mantel's tempting. With Macquarie Bank played, there's a number of use cases. I am particularly excited about major league baseball. I'm a big fan of baseball, and Major League Baseball is now using and those for 2020 season and all of the stadium across, trusting a large amount of data and gives them the capability to get those capabilities in stadiums very, really acceptable. All of those >>Okay, quick, quick. Follow up on that and those attached clusters because it was one of the questions I had last year. Google Cloud has partnerships with VM Ware for what they're doing. You know, Red Hat and Pivotal also is part of the VM Ware families, and they have their own kubernetes offering. So should I be thinking of this as a management capability that's similar to like what? What Andrew does Or maybe as your arca, Or is it just a kind of interoperability piece? How do we understand how these multiple kubernetes fit together? >>Yeah. So what we've done with Antos has really taken the approach that we need to help our customers are made and manage the infrastructure to specifically what Antos attach clusters gives our customers is they can have any kubernetes cluster as long as it's kubernetes conformance, they can benefit from all of the things that we provide in terms of automation. One of the challenges, of course, is you know, those two is configuring these very, very large instances in walls. A lot of handcrafting today we can provide declarative configuration. So you automate all of that. So think of this as configures code I think of this is infrastructure scored management scored. We're providing that service automation layer on top of any kubernetes conforming cluster with an tools. >>Great. Alright, uh, it's at modernization weeks, so Ah, partner, maybe bring us in aside. You were talking about your customers and what their what they're doing to modernize what's new that they should be aware of this year. >>Yeah, so So, First of all, you know, our mission is really to accelerate innovation in every organization through making their developers more productive as well as automating their operations. And this is something that is resonating even more in these times. Specifically, I think the biggest news that we have is really around, how we're going to help companies get started with the application modernization so that they can maximize the impact of their modernization efforts. And to do this, we're introducing what we're calling. The Google Cloud Application Modernization program or a Google camp for short on Google Camp has three pieces. It has an assessment, which is really data driven and fact based. It's a baseline assessment that helps organizations understand where they are in terms of their maturity with application modernization. Secondly, we give them a blueprint. This is something that is, is it encapsulates a specific set of best practices, proven best practices from development to security to operations, and it's something that they can put into practice and implement immediately. These practices, they cover the entire application lifecycle from writing the code to the See I CD to running it and operating it for maximum reliability and security. And then the third aspect, of course, is the application platform. And this is a modern platform, but also extremely extensible. And, as you know, it spans across clouds on this enables organizations to build, run and secure and, of course, manage both legacy as well as new applications. And the good news, of course, here is you know, this is a time tested platform. It's something that we use internally as well. For our Cloud ML services are being query omni service capability as well as for apogee, hot hybrid and many more at over time. So with the Google campus really covered all aspects of the application lifecycle. And we think it's extremely important for enterprises to have this capability. >>Yeah, so a party when you talk about the extent ability, I would expect that Google Cloud Run is one of the options there to help give us a bridge to get to server list. If that's where customers looking to my right on >>that, that's rights to the camp program provides is holistic, and it brings together many of our capabilities. So Cloud Code Cloud See I CD Cloud Run, which is our server less offering and also includes G ki e and and those best practices. Because customers for their applications, they're usually using multiple platforms. Now, in the case of Cloud Run, in particular, I want to highlight that there's been a lot of interest in the serverless capability during this last few months. In particular, I think, disproportionate amount of interest and server lists on container Native. In fact, according to the CNC F 2020 State of Cloud Native Development Report, you might have seen that, you know, they noted that 2.7 million cloud native developers are using kubernetes and four million are using serverless architectures or cloud functions, and that about 60% of back and developers are now using containers. So this just points to the the usage that was happening already and is now really disproportionately accelerated. In our case, you know, we've we've worked with several customers at the New York State Department and Media Market. Saturn are two that are really excellent stories with the New York State Department. They had a unemployment claims crisis. There was a lot. Ah, volume. That was difficult for their application to handle. And so we worked with them to re architect their application as a set of micro services on Google Cloud on our public sector team of teamed up with them to roll out a new unemployment website in record time. That website was able to handle the 1600% increase in Web traffic compared to a typical week. And this is very much do, too, the dev ops tooling that we provided and we worked with them on and then with Media market Saturn. This is really an excellent example in EMEA based example of a retailer that was able to achieve an eight X increase in speed as well as a 40% cost reduction. And these are really important metrics in these times in particular because for a retailer in the Cove in 19 crisis, to be able to bring new applications and new features to the hands of their customers is ultimately something that impacts their business is extremely valuable. >>Yeah, you think you bring up a really great point of partner when I traditionally think of application modernization. Maybe I've been in the space to long. But it is. Simplicity is not. The first thing that comes to mind is probably pointed out right now. There's an imperative people need to move fast, so I want to throw it out to both of you. How is Google's trying to make sure that, you know, in these uncertain times that customers can move fast and that with all these technology options that it could be just a little bit simpler? >>Yeah, I think I just, uh you know, start off by saying the first thing we've done is build all of our services from the ground up with automation, simplicity and agility in mind. So we've designed for development teams and operations teams be able to take these solutions and get productive with them right away. In addition, we understand that some of our largest customers actually need dedicated program where they can actually assess where they are and then map out a plan for incremental improvement so they can get on their journey to application modernization. But do it with the highest our way. And that was Google camp that apartment talked about ultimately at Google Cloud. Our mission, of course, is to accelerate innovation. Every organization toe hold developer velocity improvements, but also giving them the operation automation that we talked about with that application modernization platform. So we're very excited to be able to do this with every organization. >>Great. Well, Aparna, I'll let you have the final word Is the application modernization week here at Google Cloud. Next online, you can have the final take away for customers. >>Well, thank you, cio. You know, we are extremely passionate about developers on. We want to make sure that it is easy for anyone, anywhere to be able to get started with development as well as to have a path to, uh, accelerated path to production for their applications. So some of what we've done in terms of simplicity, which, as you said is extremely important in this environment, is to really make it easy to get started on. Some of the announcements are around build packs and the integration of cloud code are plug ins to the development environment directly into our serverless environment. And that's the type of thing that gets me excited. And I think I'm very passionate about that because it's something that applies to everyone. Uh, you know, regardless of where they are or what type of person they are, they can get started with development. And that can be a path to economic renewal and growth not just for companies, but for individuals. And that's a mission that we're extremely passionate about. Google Cloud >>Apartment Poly Thank you so much for sharing all the updates. Congratulations to the team. And definitely great to hear about how you're helping customers in these challenging times. >>Thank you for having us on. >>Thank you. So great to see you again. >>Alright. Stay tuned for more coverage from stew minimum and, as always, Thank you for watching the Cube. Yeah, yeah.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of CONMEBOL. Future Ready 2020. Brought to you by combo. Hi, I'm Stew Minuteman. And this is the Cube's coverage of Con Volt Future ready event Welcoming back to the program. Fresh off the keynote stage. Sanjay Mirchandani. He's the CEO of Con Volt. Sanjay. Nice job on the keynote. And thanks so much for joining us. >>Thanks to Good to see you again. >>Nice to see you too. So, Sanjay, about a year and 1/2 into your journey with Conn Volt, you took over. And you know what it looks like? You've almost completely refreshed the portfolio there. Start a little bit, you know, future. Ready. Tell us how you're getting Conn Volt and its customers ready to be prepared for what happened today as well as the >>right. So, you know, we've we've given visit The past 18 months, have flown by in the past four or five. Even faster. Um, the change. You know, the change that we've had all deal with us as organizations has been tremendous. We've been hard at work. When I came on board, I should have talked about how we were setting out to simplify, innovate and execute all three of those pillars and, ah, future ready, which I love as a term completely embodies what I think the work we've been up to and what the world needs today, which is really getting it ready for whatever's next. And, you know, and it's coming together of innovation, simplification and and hopefully you'll agree some good execution to bring it all together. Yeah, so we've been busy. >>Sanjay, you talked a bit about just the moment in time that we're in. Wonder if you could bring us inside. You know your customers. So there's certain things that we saw for a couple of months. People put a pause on. Other things absolutely have been accelerated. We talk to customers about their adoption of cloud, you know, digital transformation. It's one of those things. That boy, I hope I'm through some of those or you know, can be as agile as possible. But, you know, what do you hearing specifically from our customer base and how they're dealing with things? >>You know, Cto, I touched a little bit on that during my keynote. And you know this this this this time that we're in has really caused, I think a couple of shifts. The first structural shift was Oh, hey, this thing is here to stay and let's get our employees Working and productive and keep the business is running and keeping them safe and everything else. That first shift happened right on. Honest about What was it that March, April and businesses small and big had to figure out how to take go from their their their operating model into, ah, remote. With the remote model, you re prioritize and you thought through what was important at the time and what it was was really getting laptops into the hands of your employees, getting them safe into their working environment, making sure your business processes leaning in that direction. You could take care of your customers. And so that was sort of the first structural faith, the second structural failures. Okay, how do we really drive productivity? One of the new priorities. What do we need to do, what you want to invest in? What do you want to pull back from? And from our vantage point from A from a technology and data point of view, what we're hearing is the themes that if I had a paraphrase of conversations I have with CIOs, it's NGOs. It's really around a simplification. This is a This is a great time to really simplify and, you know, and make sure that you're working with the tried and tested. This is not the time to experiment. This is not the time for esoteric. This is really about simplifying and working with the tried and tested. The second is really about focusing on skills, you know, this is you need you need to be able to leverage, and you need to be able to bring productivity from the from the people that you have an I t. And really focus around that that's, you know, that sometimes for gotten, you know that I like to call them. The unsung heroes of technology has just been pushed into their homes. They're now doing their jobs, longer hours, tougher scenarios. They have no access to their data centers. So it's over. So let's think about skills and the third, you know, the third thing, really that has been propelled into this conversation is cloud. So if you were on a journey, you're off the journey you need to get there quickly, okay? And you need to really newly leverage a light touch, low touch, remote sort of capability. A So fast is you can't call a digital transformation. Call it whatever you'd like to say. But it is about truly leveraging the cloud in a way that that was no longer, you know, a one year, two year three applying. You just have to bring it right to those kinds of things we're hearing and dealing with. >>Yeah, it's so important, Sanjay. Especially that simplicity piece. You know, I remember a few years ago there were certain customers that were adopting cloud, and it was the reminder. Oh, hey, your data protection in your security, you need to make sure you take care of that when you go to the cloud. And unfortunately, you know, some of the people that are now accelerating things you have to quickly say Oh, wait. I can't work this in a few months. I need to take care of this upfront, so help us understand a little bit. You know, the announcements that you've made. How are you making sure that you're ready for customers? The simplicity that they need to take advantage of the innovation and opportunity that the cloud on solutions provider >>absolutely and and make a mistake for me to. Simplification is not just the technology is easy to use, even though that is a big part of what we're working on and working and delivering through these announcements. But we've also got to make sure that the partnerships that we that we that we have lend themselves to what customers need, you know, engineered better its source not in the field, you know, and then and then the ecosystem to make the technology available and consumed commercially in the way that customers would like to keep that simple to. But today, if I just focus on the portfolio, you know, we've we've you could say we've completely rebuilt this incredible stack of technology that we've built this company out and, you know, and we weave in a nutshell. What we've done is announced A. We've taken our backup and recovery suite and be saying we've got a new company, backup and recovery product. We've got a brand new con Volt disaster recovery product. You can get them together as a unit Azaz the complete backup and recovery suite, if you would. So that's one big set of offerings. The second and you know the second is is we bought Hedvig sort of next generation software defined storage technology company last year, and we've been feverishly work quietly at work, integrating Hedvig into calm bolt not just as a company, but in the technology and our new hyper scale technology. Hyper scale. ECs is the embodiment of those two things coming together, the best of data protection from Con Volt and the best storage subsystem to drive that from Hedvig, also from console. So the two come together on all of this technology, whether it's the suite that I mentioned or the hyper scaler, all of it you can. You can mix and match any way you want with it with a world class user interface or user interfaces if you want command lines. If you want AP ICE will keep it open, all of it to you. In addition, we've got announcements or under Activate Suite on. Recently, we talked about our partnership with Microsoft with the metallic azure sort of combination for customers. So it's ah, it's a left to right set of announcement with simplification threatened right through it. >>Sanjay, you mentioned partnerships. Ah, a little bit before the show, you had, of course, the extended partnership with Microsoft with metallic. Maybe give us just a little bit more color about you know how, Con Volt make sure their position and working closely with those hyper scale >>hours. Yeah, you know, and we work with all the hyper scaler. So, you know, there we are probably the most prevalent data protection technology, if you would in the public cloud. And most of the way we talk about over an exabyte that we've helped customers, right, that the cloud is just one data point we've we've been, you know, seen is from the outside in as being the transport capability across across hybrid cloud scenarios. The partnership, the partnership with Microsoft and Microsoft Azure in particular, is the coming together of these things because customers, when we talk to customers and Microsoft office of customers be here from them, they want the ability to be, if you know, as they get more prevalent in the cloud as their workloads get more more pervasive in the cloud, they want to make sure that the same industrial strength data protection cloud in that they had well while they were on prayer for primarily on Prem. Our solutions are completely hybrid. And so the partnership really brings together again. You know, technology that's engineered better together, our data protection and their their cloud best in class our channels working, working together and making sure that it's easy for customers to work work with us. And we're available on the azure marketplace and our field forces also aligned around it. So it's again a 3 60 kind of conversation that we have with customers as much as much of today's announcements. >>Yeah, Sanjay, you talked about the hyper scale er's. You mentioned that the integration of the Hedwig Solution work with Dev Ops and really the cloud native type solutions. Of course, one of the things everybody's looking at when you were hired to this job is you've got background in the automation in developer world. So you know, how is that scene in the update? The portfolio really that embracing of cloud native and develop our environments? >>Cloud without automation is not a cloud, right? It's just it's just it's just infrastructure that's put somewhere else. It's deep, deep degrees of it off automation that really bring cloud to life. Right? And I was fortunate that have been in the Dev ops world for a while in a market leading with marketing product. And I was very pleasantly surprised when I when I came to convert and sell the deep degrees of automation and work flows that are core technology had, with Hedvig acquisition being a platform layer being the storage layer that is multi protocol and appeals incredibly to Dev Ops engineers because everything in the product you know is call a bill through an A p I for a set of AP eyes. It's it's Richard's got work flows and and it's multi critical. So whether you're using VMC or you're building the next generation container applications or you're just using object storage, it doesn't matter. We can mix and match it across, you know, private and public cloud environments, and it's all culpable and it's all programmable. It's all automated on as much as you want >>it. All right, So, Sanjay, I know we can't talk too much about Financial Piece is where we are in the quarter. But one of the things Dave Volante and I were discussing and looking at Kahn Volt. You know, there's some good data, you know, especially if you look at win rates against some of the some of the newer players in this space that the data that we have from ET R was showing, you know, increased win rates for Con Volt. Just could you give us a little bit of your competitive landscape view you talked about? Customers don't want to take too much risk, you know? How do you balance between being, you know, a company with a large install base? But you want to be, you know, more modern? >>Oh, yeah. And you know, the use cases we're talking about. The cloud that we're seeing those leaders are today's use cases, not yesterday's use cases, and we're winning in the base is the fact that we respect that customers are coming from Okay, There's a lot of stuff that runs that business that is still good. That isn't in the cloud that they're they're working their plants journey from that to something else as well. That's where we're leading in areas where they have it in the public cloud, and we always like to stay 1 to 2 steps ahead of the hard problems our customers going to encounter. So our portfolio is is absolutely cloud ready. Our portfolio is rich in that in that capability, and we're not slowing down. You know, we're winning because we have the breath of technology that we support. Both, You know, source source data that customers want o protect and target scenarios where maybe the hyper scaler or anything else where customers want to take it. And the flexibility, the second thing. And if you heard the interview I did with Run from from Johns Hopkins, it's the optimization off our technology around each of those cloud scenarios that gives our customer's true, you know, true value around the compute and storage decisions they have to make. And we helped them make through deep through deep degrees of AI and ML built in. So so it's not just about moving bits. It's about optimizing all of that on the entire life cycle of that data, from the point it's created to the point. >>Excellent. Well, Sunday. Want to let you have the final word? Give us what you want customers to have as the take away from today's future. Ready event? >>Sure. So, first of all, I wanted to, you know, I want to thank all our our audience here, our customers for being with us. It's being with us as a customer, being looking at us as a prospect for technology. We are investing like, you know, we've invested over a $1,000,000,000 over over a period of time as a company in data protection, and we're taking that to a whole new level with the innovations that we're bringing to the table. So, you know, we truly believe that the journey with as it pertains to data the journey to the cloud requires you to be able to think through the life cycle from storing, protecting, optimizing and using that data all the way through. And our solutions can be used independently. Best of class across each of them or together better together. And, you know, we I I urge you to take a few minutes and look at some of the some of the great innovations we've brought to table and rest assured that everything we're doing eyes with hybrid cloud in mind and is it is completely cloud optimized. >>All right. Well, Sanjay Mirchandani. Thank you so much for joining us. Congratulations to you and the team on the work on the updates. Definitely. Look forward to hearing more in the future. >>Thanks. Too good to be here. >>Alright, stay tuned. We've got more from Con vault Future ready on student a man. And thank you for watching the Cube. Yeah, yeah.

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of DockerCon LIVE 2020, brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE's coverage of DockerCon LIVE 2020. Happy to welcome back to the program one of our CUBE alumni, Deepak Singh. He's the vice president of compute services at Amazon Web Services. Deepak, great to see you. >> Likewise, hi, Stu. Nice to meet you again. >> All right, so for our audience that hasn't been in your previous times on theCUBE, give us a little bit about, you know, your role and your organization inside AWS? >> Yeah, so I'm, I've been part of the AWS compute services world from, for the last 12 years in various capacities. Today, I run a number of teams, all our container services, our Linux teams, I also happen to run a high performance computing organization, so it's a nice mix of all the computing that our customers do, especially some of the more new and large scale compute types that our customers are doing. >> All right, so Deepak, obviously, you know, the digital events, we understand what's happening with the global pandemic. DockerCon was actually always planned to be an online event but I want to understand, you know, your teams, how things are affecting, we know distributed is something that Amazon's done, but you have to cut up those two pizza and send them out to the additional groups or, you know, what advice are you giving the developers out there? >> Yeah, in many ways, obviously, how we operate has changed. We are at home, maybe I think with our families. DockerCon was always going to be virtual, but many other events like AWS Summits are now virtual so, you know, in some ways, the teams, the people that get most impacted are not necessarily the developers in our team but people who interact a lot with customers, who go to conferences and speak and they are finding new ways of being effective and being successful and they've been very creative at it. Our customers are getting very good at working with us virtually because we can always go to their site, they can always come to Seattle, or run of other sites for meeting. So we've all become very good at, and disciplined at how do you conduct really nice virtual meetings. But from a customer commitment side, from how we are operating, the things that we're doing, not that much has changed. We still run our projects the same way, the teams work together. My team tends to do a lot of happy things like Friday happy hours, they happen to be all virtual. I think last time we played, what word, bingo? I forget exactly what game we played. I know I got some point somewhere. But we do our best to maintain sort of our team chemistry or camaraderie but the mission doesn't change which is our customers expect us to keep operating their services, make sure that they're highly available, keep delivering new capabilities and I think in this environment, in some ways that's even more important than ever, as customer, as the consumer moves online and so much business is being done virtually so it keeps us on our toes but it's been an adjustment but I think we are all, not just us, I think the whole world is doing the best that they can under the circumstances. >> Yeah, absolutely, it definitely has humanized things quite a bit. From a technology standpoint, Deepak, you know, distributed systems has really been the challenge of you know, quite a long journey that people have been going on. Docker has played, you know, a really important role in a lot of these cloud native technologies. It's been just amazing to watch, you know, one of the things I point to in my career is, you know, watching from those very, very early days of Docker to the Cambrian explosion of what we've seen container based services, you know, you've been part of it for quite a number of years and AWS had many services out there. For people that are getting started, you know, what guidance do you give them? What do they understand about, you know, containerization in 2020? >> Yeah, containerization in 2020 is quite a bit different from when Docker started in 2013. I remember speaking at DockerCon, I forget, that's 2014, 2015, and it was a very different world. People are just trying to figure out what containers are that they could package code in deeper. Today, containers are mainstream, it is more customers or at least many customers and they are starting to build new applications, probably starting them either with containers or with some form of server technology. At least that's the default starting point but increasingly, we also seen customers with existing applications starting to think about how do they adapt? And containers are a means to an end. The end is how can we move faster? How can we deliver more quickly? How can our teams be more productive? And how can you do it more, less expensively, at lower cost? And containers are a big part, important and critical piece of that puzzle, both from how customers are operating their infrastructure, that there's a whole ecosystem of schedulers and orchestration and security tools and all the things that an enterprise need to deliver applications using containers that they have built up. Over the last few years, you know, we have multiple container services that meet those needs. And I think that's been the biggest change is that there's so much more. Which also means that when you're getting started, you're faced with many more options. When Docker started, it was this cute whale, Docker run, Docker build Docker push, it was pretty simple, you could get going really quickly. And today you have 500 different options. My guidance to customers really is, boils down to what are you trying to achieve? If you're an organization that's trying to corral infrastructure and trying to use an existing VM more effectively, for example, you probably do want to invest in becoming experts at schedulers and understanding orchestration technologies like ECS and EKS work but if you just want to run applications, you probably want to look at something like Fargate or more. I mean, you could go towards Lambda and just run code. But I think it all boils down to where you're starting your journey. And by the way, understanding Docker run, Docker build and Docker push is still a great idea. It helps you understand how things work. >> All right, so Deepak, you've already brought up a couple of AWS services of, you know, talk about the options out there, that you can either run on top of AWS, you have a lot of native services, you know, ECS, EKS, you mentioned, Fargate there, and very broad ecosystem in space. Could you just, you know, obviously, there are entire breakout sessions to talk about , the various AWS services, but you know, give us that one on one level as to what to understand for container service by AWS. >> Yeah, and these services evolved organically and we launched the Amazon Elastic Container Service or ECS in preview in November or whenever re:Invent was that year in 2014, which seems ages ago in the world of containers but in the end, our goal is to give our customers the most choice, so that they can solve problems the way they want to solve them. So Amazon ECS is our native container orchestration service, it's designed to work with and the rest of the AWS ecosystem. So it uses VPC for networking, it uses IAM identity, it uses ALB for load balancing, other than just good examples, some examples of how it works. But it became pretty clear over time that there was a lot of customers who were investing in communities, very often starting in their own data centers. And as they migrated onto the cloud, they wanted to continue using the same tool plane but they also wanted to not have to manage the complexity of communities control planes, upgrades. And they also wanted some of the same integrations that they were getting with ECS and so that's where the Amazon Elastic Kubernetes Service or EKS comes in, which is, okay, we will manage a control plane for you. We will manage upgrades and patches for you. You focus on building your applications in Kubernetes way, so it embraces Kubernetes. It has, invokes with all the Kubernetes tooling and gives you a Kubernetes native experience, but then also ties into the broad AWS ecosystem and allows us to take care of some of the muck that many customers quite frankly don't and shouldn't have to worry about. But then we took it one step further and actually launched the same time as EKS and that's, AWS Fargate, and Fargate was, came from the recognition that we had, actually, a long time ago, which is, one of the beauties of EC2 was that customers never had, had to stop, didn't have to worry about racking and stacking and where a server was running anymore. And the idea was, how can we apply that to the world of containers. And we also learned a little bit from what we had done with Lambda. And we took that and took the server layer and took it out of the way. Then from a customer standpoint, all you're launching is a pod or a task or a service and you're not worrying about which machines I need to get, what types of machines I need to get. And the operational simplicity that comes with it is quite remarkable and quite finding not that, surprisingly, our customers want us to keep pushing the boundary of the kind operational simplicity we can give them but Fargate serves a critical building block and part of that, and we're super excited because, you know, today by far when a new customer, when a customer comes and runs a container on AWS the first time they pick Fargate, we're usually using ECS because EKS and Fargate is much newer, but that is a default starting point for any new container customer on AWS which is great. >> All right, well, you know, Docker, the company really helped a lot with that democratization, container technologies, you know, all those services that you talked about from AWS. I'm curious now, the partnership with Docker here, you know, how do some of the AWS services, you know, fit in with Docker? I'm thinking Docker Desktop probably someplace that they're, you know, or some connection? >> Yeah, I think one of the things that Docker has always been really good at as a company, as a project, is understanding the developer and the fact that they start off on a laptop. That's where the original Docker experience that go well, and Docker Desktop since then and we see a ton of Docker Desktop customers have used AWS. We also learned very early on, because originally ECS CLI supported Docker Compose. That ecosystem is also very rich and people like building Docker files and post files and just being able to launch them. So we continue to learn from what Docker is doing with Docker Desktop. We continue working with them on making sure that customizing the Docker Compose and Docker Desktop can run all their services and application on AWS. And we'll continue working with Docker, the company, on how we make that a lot easier for our customers, they are our mutual customers, and how we can learn from their simplicity that Docker, the simplicity that Docker brings and the sort of ease of use the Docker bring for the developer and the developer experience. We learn from that for our own services and we love working with them to make sure that the customer that's starting with Docker Desktop or the Docker CLI has a great experience as they move towards a fully orchestrated experience in the cloud, for example. There's a couple of other areas where Docker has turned out to have had foresight and driven some of our thinking. So a few years ago, Docker released this thing called containerd, where they took out their container runtime from inside the bigger Docker engine. And containerd has become a very important project for us as well as, it's the underpinning of Fargate now and we see a lot of interest from customers that want to keep building on containerd as well. And it's going to be very interesting to see how we work with Docker going forward and how we can continue to give our customers a lot of value, starting from the laptop and then ending up with large scale services in the cloud. >> Very interesting stuff, you know, interesting. Anytime we have a conversation about Docker, there's Docker the technology and Docker the company and that leads us down the discussion of open-source technologies . You were just talking about, you know, containerd believe that connects us to Firecracker. What you and your team are involved in, what's your viewpoint is the, you know, what you're seeing from open-source, how does Amazon think of that? And what else can you share with the audience on this topic? >> Yeah, as you've probably seen over the last few years, both from our work in Kubernetes, with things like Firecracker and more recently Bottlerocket. AWS gets deeply involved with open-source in a number of ways. We are involved heavily with a number of CNCF projects, whether it be containerd, whether it be things like Kubernetes itself, projects in the Kubernetes ecosystem, the service mesh world with Envoy and with the containerd project. So where containerd fits in really well with AWS is in a project that we call firecracker-containerd. They're effectively for Fargate, firecracker-containerd as we move Fargate towards Firecracker becomes out of the container in which you run containerd. It's effectively the equivalent of runC in a traditional Docker engine world. And, you know, one of the first things we did when Firecracker got rolled out was open-source the firecracker-containerd project. It's a go project and the idea was it's a great way for people to build VM like isolation and then build sort of these serverless container architectures like we want to do with Fargate. And, you know, I think Firecracker itself has been a great success. You see customer, you know, companies like Libvirt integrating with Firecracker. I've seen a few other examples of, sometimes unbeknownst to us, of people picking a Firecracker and using it for very, very interesting use cases and not just on AWS in other places as well. And we learnt a lot from that that's kind of why Bottlerocket is, was released the way it was. It is both a product and a project. Bottlerocket, the operating system is an open-source project. It's on GitHub, it has all the building tooling, you can take it and do whatever you want with it. And then on the AWS side, we will build and publish Bottlerocket armies, Amazon machine images, we will support them on AWS and there it's a product. But then Bottlerocket the project is something that anybody in the world who wants to run a minimal operating system can choose to pick up. And I think we've learnt a lot from these experiences, how we deal with the community, how we work with other people who are interested in contributing. And you know, Docker is one of the, the Docker open-source pieces and Docker the company are both part of the growing open-source ecosystem that's coming from AWS, especially on the container world. So it's going to be very interesting. And I'll end with, containerization has started impacting other parts of AWS, as well as our other services are being built, very often through ECS and EKS, but they're also influencing how we think about what capabilities we need to build into the broader container ecosystem. >> Yeah, Deepak, you know, you mentioned that some of the learnings from Lambda has impacted the services you're doing on the containerization side. You know, we've been watching some of the blurring of the lines between another container world and the containerization world. You know, there's some open-source projects out there, the CNCS working on things, you know, what's the latest, as you see kind of containerization and serverless and you know, where do you see them going forward? >> This is that I say that crystal balls are not my strong suite. But we hear customers, customers often want the best of both world. What we see very often is that customers don't actually choose just Fargate or just Lambda, they'll choose both. Where for different pieces of their architecture, they may pick a different solution. And sometimes that's driven by what they know, sometimes driven by what fits into their need. Some of the lines blur but they're still quite different. Lambda, for example, as a very event driven architecture, it is one process at a time. It has all these event hooks into the rest of AWS that are hard to replicate. And if that's the world you want to live in or benefit from, you're going to use lambda. If you're running long running services or you want a particular size that you don't get in Lambda or you want to take a more traditional application and convert it into a more modern application, chances are you're starting on Fargate but it fits in really well you have an existing operational model that fits into it. So we see applications evolving very interestingly. It's one reason why when we build a service mesh, we thought forward instead. It is almost impossible that we will have a world that's 100% containers, 100% Lambda or 100% EC2. It's going to be some mix of all of these. We have to think about it that way. And it's something that we constantly think about is how can we do things in a way that companies aren't forced to pick one way to it and "Oh, I'm going to build on Fargate" and then months later, they're like, "Yeah, we should have probably done Lambda." And I think that is something we think a lot about, whether it's from a developer's experience side or if it's from service meshes, which allow you to move back and forth or make the mesh. And I think that is the area where you'll see us do a lot more going forward. >> Excellent, so last last question for you Deepak is just give us a little bit as to what, you know, industry watchers will be looking at the container services going forward, next kind of 12, 18 months? >> Yeah, so I think one of the great things of the last 18 months has been that type of application that we see customers running, I don't think there's any bound to it. We see everything from people running microservices, or whatever you want to call decoupled services these days, but are services in the end, people are running, most are doing a lot of batch processing, machine learning, artificial intelligence that work with containers. But I think where the biggest dangers are going to come is as companies mature, as companies make containers, not just things that they build greenfield applications but also start thinking about migrating legacy applications in much more volume. A few things are going to happen. I think we'll be, containers come with a lot of complexity right now. I think you've, if you've seen my last two talks at re:Invent along with David Richardson from the Lambda team. You'll hear that we talk a lot about the fact that we see, we've made customers think about more things than they used to in the pre container world. I think you'll see now that the early adopter techie part has done, cloud has adopted containers and the next wave of mainstream users is coming in, you'll see more attractions come on as well, you'll see more governance, I think service meshes have a huge role to play here. How identity works or this fits into things like control tower and more sort of enterprise focused tooling around how you put guardrails around your containerized applications. You'll see it two or three different directions, I think you'll see a lot more on the serverless side, just the fact that so many customers start with Fargate, they're going to make us do more. You'll see a lot more on the ease of use developer experience of production side because you started off with the folks who like to tinker and now you're getting more and more customers that just want to run. And then you'll see, and that's actually a place where Docker, the company and the project have a lot to offer, because that's always been different. And then on the other side, you have the governance guardrails, and how is going to be in a compliant environment, how am I going to migrate all these applications over so that work will keep going on and you'll more and more of that. So those are the three buckets I'll use, the world can surprise us and you might end up with something completely radically different but that seems like what we're hearing from our customers right now. >> Excellent, well, Deepak, always a pleasure to catch up with you. Thanks so much for joining us again on theCUBE. >> No, always a pleasure Stu and hopefully, we get to do this again someday in person. >> Absolutely, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks as always for watching theCUBE. >> Deepak: Yep, thank you. (gentle music)

>> live from San Francisco celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to San Francisco. We continue our coverage here. Live on the Cube. 10th year John of covering Veum World This is 29 teens version John for John Wall's Got to have inside the Moscone Center. We're joined now by Varun Chabrol It was the vice president of marketing at Delhi M. C. Good to see you today. >> Thanks for having me. >> How's your week been? So far? >> It's been amazing. How can you don't get excited? All the innovation we're seeing this week >> we'll hear about some big announcements. Do you guys have made? And Moon Young Man Azzedine, who is the vice president of product marketing that for cloud security and works based solutions at Veum wear when you're good to see you. >> Good to see you again. You, By >> the way, you might be the busiest guy here. Yesterday, when you came into the set, you were coming in. Just spoken to 1300 people in a standing room only session You coming out? 500 folks, How many sessions have you done? The seven. So >> you don't count the the one on one with the analyst. And, uh, you know, the customers and partners and press. And tomorrow actually host ah 140 press media analyst on campus in Palo Alto from Asia Pacific because they float all the way from Asia >> plus 140. Yeah, it's a piece of cake. >> Yeah, hose them from 10 to 4. So, I mean, >> you're always smiling >> knowing that this is a pretty wide audience to whom you've been speaking. But just generally, what are you if there's a common thread at all about the kinds of questions that people are coming to you with, or or the concerns or maybe just the things they want to talk about being inspired. But what they're hearing here at the show, >> Okay. Now, according to two aspects of it, one obviously from analysts themselves, you know, they are actually have been very complimentary about the way we've taken our approach. I'm not sure if you could have paid attention. In the last couple of years, we've been talking especially the cloud side, the narrative, to be very much about use cases, solving problems. You know the key? No, we talked about hate my grade modernize. It wasn't about Hey, I've got the next big product here with all these features and capabilities. You do this and that. So we're gonna shifted out narrative. And it was very, you know, the the analyst across the boat. You know, we've been seeing an appreciative of the fact that you actually changing a narrative to be re compelling and we're gonna reflected. And we have some things here like Cloud City, where it's not a standard demo boot. It's a it's ah, Customers walk in and they touch and feel and see which we did it, Adele technology will, too. It's like, What's your business? Probably going through these applications. I'm sitting. I don't know if I should be modernizing them or should be migrating into Amazon. A ridge or so. So you know that narrative the analysts are appreciative off, and that reflects into the customer conversations I've been having in the briefings, like one on one with customers. They're really kind of lost us. D'oh! Hey, I've I'm working in this environment. There's a lot of pressure for me. Thio modernize my applications or go adopt my cloud. First strategy is where do I start? Where do I go? It's like, you know, there's a big pressure, so they just want clarity. I think in the end, everything we're gonna we're doing in our study that comes out obviously the buzzword for this weird world. It stanza, right? And, you know, >> we've won the product announcements was >> actually Brandon can Oh, yeah. Branding announcement, to be honest is yeah, because we're trying to bring together, as you know, in Tansy has landed in Bill Run Manage billed as in you know how our intent to acquire Pivotal Already acquired Big Tommy. How all our different acquisitions with different brand names are coming together to establish our bills portfolio again. The sphere. Everybody knows the sphere Project Pacific P ks. All of those create a good run time, environment and manageability like Adi manage with assets from ve Franta gain morbid Nami and you know it. So this multiple brands that are coming into this package off Iran. So we had a creative tan Xue too, you know, put forward statement together that yes is going to be 78 different brands coming into this, but going forward to stand. >> So so that's a great strategy on De Liam Seaside on Del Technology. Michael Dell was in here and I asked him. I said he could have been number one in everything you could. Let's talk about I'm number one in servers again. You kind of get on HP, little baby. But those air peace parts now. So we've got the cloud game. It's bringing despair it at parts together kind and making it coherent from a positioning standpoint and understandable and deployable. So you guys are going down there. That's your cloud strategy. Take a minute to explain that. >> Yeah, absolutely, John. So So what? What we've been doing. We announced this at Del Technologies will this year. But, you know, in the cloud infrastructure space, we're working very closely with the anywhere too tightly integrate our hardware solutions with their their cloud software. And we think that by combining these two in a tightly integrated joined engineer, jointly engineered solutions coupled with the service, is that you know, both of'em were and l e m c bring the customers we think we have. We're giving customers are very consistent experience both with their own premises, infrastructure with public cloud as well as with the edge cloud. And that's really what we're trying to do. That's what we've been building upon and uniting the announcements this week. You know, just just hopefully show customers that the sky's the limit, whether it's not just your infrastructure management. Also app development. Managing your APS both traditional and and cloud native. It's all here for And >> what's the big takeaway free from your standpoint that you'd like people to know about what's going on? Adele the emcee for the VM. Where relation. What's the big top item? >> Yeah, there's there's there's just so much good Doctor Wait forever drank the town about. If someone rises >> way, only have two hours >> time work. The most important thing that people should should know about it, >> you know, both deli M. C and V. M. R. I think, are very, very customer driven companies that we respond to customer feedback and we try to respond to them very fast. That's been true to our respective lifetimes and what we've done in the so that I think there's two broad areas of collaboration. One is in the cloud space, which is all about, you know, making sure that the the innovation that GM is bringing the market, we're providing that in a toy tightly integrated infrastructure solution. Right. So we announced from a deli in seaside support for Vienna, where p ks being deployed automatically on Vieques trail using VCF return. Our customers can you know, a lot of teams were telling us we have our developers and turning developers banging slash knocking on the door, saying we need to build a cloud. Native applications. You need to give us an environment that we can use. And you know, if if all righty, if these IittIe teams don't turn around and give them something relatively quickly Well, guess what? The developers will go somewhere else, right? Yeah, exactly. So And if you look at the kubernetes environment today, if you really look look at what the work that's required to set up kubernetes and ready infrastructure. So a lot of scripting a lot of manual, you know, work command line interface is testing stuff. And what what? V m r p k s does. And you know what times you will do as well is really makes it easy when we've taken that with the magic of the American Foundation sitting on top of the exhale to make it super easy for our customers to be able to deploy kubernetes ready infrastructure and then have it be ready for scale, right? And then the important thing here also is this is the same infrastructure of the expelling bcf that our customers are using for traditional applications as well, right? Trying to reduce that complexity. Give them the one platform. So this cloud, you know, we had we were doing the same integration on just with R A C I platform, but also with our best to breach storage or we're not working with the C f. And then we're also making investments on data protection like it's so important to be able to manage your data in this multi cloud world. We have applications sitting everywhere, data. We all know that it is a crown jewel. So >> it's really a king validating from the Vienna a point of view. How that works right is is about applications is about the infrastructure, and it's about the operation and it really kind of together as we talk about Han Xue p. K s is giving our customers that Chuy's off. You pick Cuban eighties, you know, environments, application choice. >> Um, >> it took us. Actually, we didn't We didn't arrive it in that order. Wait. Did it. In the outer off Infrastructure Plot Foundation is a critical piece of the joint engineering. But being aware and the Della Bella Technologies is really from aviary perspective. It took Locke Foundation, and that's the stack that runs in every public cloud. So, you know AWS as your G C P 4000 plus, you know, cloud provider partners. But Flat Foundation is a platform that was validated on. They'll take hardware and you know, that's the package. But now, as you see, we're lighting that it's same infrastructure up for traditional and culminated applications. >> I think the app sides important to point out, because if you could ve m wears heritage, you look at Dale's heritage. You had abs that ran on PCs absent, ran on servers, client server. And if you look at the fertilization that wasn't under the covers, apt an innovation that didn't require code changes. So that's the DNA that you guys have. Now, when you think about like cloud to point out which we've been riffing on that concept that's basically enterprise cloud mean donut. Hybrid cloud applications are gonna drive. The value on our premises is that they're going to be customer requirements that traditionally wouldn't have fit in the product. Marketing, management, featureless customs. Gonna define what they want. They'll build it, and then they'll dictate to the infrastructure to make it run. What? We can't do that yet. It'll be, Yes, we cannot be enabled to be dynamics. This is a a new cloud. 2.0, feature. This changes the complete game on suppliers >> completely agree. You know to your point, because, you know, you bring it thio back toward civilization. We've been going higher up the stack on So Day zero virtualization infrastructure will virtual eyes. So the line off abstraction has just been climbing from hardware retort realization next to like, you know, Pat platform of the service, and you kind of were working up our way down infrastructure. Now that base infrastructure platform looks like plants. Right? >> And there were times out a little bit over here. On the upside, you meet in the middle of >> it in the middle >> that is Hello, >> absolutely so ap and at middle wears shrinking down this way. Infrastructures. You know that the cloud incriminating stride in the middle to say, Well, that's a bit of, you know, infrastructure is a Kodak and pull. He's a bit of a AP AP eyes I can can I draw from And that's kind of nice future middleware. But our dad, I >> mean, I think applications air in charge, right? I mean, that's not sure That's the dynamic. That's the way it should be. But it never was that way before is basically the infrastructure was your gating factor. The network exact cloud two points Network security data. Yes, Dev Ops. A true Dev Ops Devane, Ops, Infrastructures Code. >> The only point I wanted to add is the reason the emphasis on abscess change acts in the past. Used to be a business support system after today is business. >> Yeah, I mean, it's >> really or you're you're gonna live or die based on the digital services you provide your customers. The other thing I was going to say about cloud 2.0, is that it's also becoming increasingly clear when we Dr customers that, um, customers are realizing Cloud is not a place right. There was this kind of cloud. One point it was okay. Big honking data centers, hyper skaters will be found now is that customers have gone through that process of and there's a lot more maturity in terms of understanding. What is good, better running on premises. What is what's better running in public Cloud? There's a place for both of them and that, um, and the cloud is actually the automation, the service delivery. It's Maurin operation and a way of being almost than a place. >> And what is it? Well, what does it do for you all? Then, in terms of challenge, especially at your teams, because you talk about all this customization, you're allowing the application to almost drive. You know, you're changing places in terms of who's the power of the relationship? Yes. Oh, me, yeah, How what? What does that do for you? Oh, in terms of how you approach that, how you change of mindset and how you change what you deliver? >> I think John, it's the way I think about it is that both daily emcee in Vienna, or any technology provider that's worth their salt is in the business of building platforms. Right? And platforms are essentially extensible. They're really they really provide a foundation that other people can innovate on top of it. And that's how I think you handled the customers issue. If one thing I think we can all agree on is that I t has always taught us there's no one size fits. All right? Right. So I think providing choice along every single dimension is super important for our >> customers. Yeah, I think that platform thing is a huge point. And I was gonna ask that question before John got jumped in because one of the things that you just brought up was platform is you guys have to build an enabling platform. One as suppliers. Okay, The successful cloud to point out cos are ones that are innovating in weird areas. Monitoring, for instance, they who will have thought that monitoring now observe ability would be such a massive, lucrative sector four. I pose M and A Why? Because it's data. It's instrumentation. This is operating system kind of thinking here is like network. So thinking like a platform on the supplier size one, the customers got to start thinking like a platform because their stakeholders air their internal developers or a P I shipping to suppliers. This is new for enterprises. This is news requires full hybrid capability. This requires date at the center of the value proposition. >> That's again the biggest value is business and I tr coming together on the area of applications and data. Yeah, that's starting up giving because the successful businesses are the ones who leveraged. Those guys have failed in the future, or the ones who don't pay attention to how critical applications are to the business logic and how critical data is to be able to mine and get the behavioral analytics to get ahead. And >> now the challenge in all this. But I'm learning and covering some of the public sector activity from the C I. A contract Jedi with Amazon to we had Raytheon Her here earlier is another customer example with another client is that procurement? And how they do business is not just a technical thing. There's like all this old legacy, things like, How do you procure technology, who you hire her and we hire developers? We build our own stack, so there's a lot of things going on. >> Yes, and you know, it's really interesting on the even on the procurement front, how our customers experience with Cloud has changed expectations, right, And that's really what we're doing with the McLaren DMC is what customers told us is, Hey, I love the agility of the cloud portal based access. Easy procurement. I love just being able to click a button and not have to navigate all this complexity. I need that for my own premises infrastructure. Imagine FRA structure. And that's, you know, in an example, while all of these dynamics are really all converging, >> well, if you can create abstraction, layer on a level of complexity and make things easy, simple and affordable, that's good business. Model >> one of our customers without taking the name right. The massive retailer you know they're spinning up, um, the retail outlets like crazy. They measure success in This was one truck roll, so they wanna have the entire infrastructure come into stand up one of the retail outlets in one truck roll. When everything comes in one button push that everything gets in a provision and up together. >> So that means I gotta have full software instrumentation automation Got intelligence. This is kind of where cloud 2.0, will lead us all >> likely. And that's expectation now that they go so fast and deploying this one Truck roll Hardware's there. Switch it on from the cloud it stood up and they're in operation 24 hours. >> Well, guys, we're going to get you on our power panels in our Palace of studio on this topic cloudy. But it's gonna be very aggressive and controversial topic because it's going to challenge the status quo. And that's really what this we're talking about >> that's in our DNA. >> And the good news is that that's more time with John. >> So as we before, we say so long, we've talked about clients. We talked about the folks you bet here. We talked about the presentation on this thing and what they're all getting out of it. What are you getting out of this? I mean, what are your takeaways? As you had back to your respective work orders, you get first. Okay? >> I think for me the biggest takeaway is just how incredibly vibrant via more user communities. I mean, it is unlike anything else I've seen before and now with the things like Project Pacific. I just feel like it's It's an opportunity for this community to be able to take the skills they have right now and actually go into this brave new world of containers with so much help forces having to do this all by yourself. Which means it's gonna be, you know, if you think about how largest community is, think about how much innovation this will spore in the container space and because of that in the application space and then because of that in business is I mean, this is a It just feels like a tipping point for me >> to me. Sure, I got high fives from every tech geek, you know, when we came out, you know, I also on our technical advisory boats for the company that these are the hot core geeks who were followed and you know us to the, you know, these were the fans and they were like, you know, they always kind of like if you walk out of them and you talk to them and they, uh how did it work? Because they my bar, you have a very high bar. They cut through all your marketing messaging. They go right to the hay. Is there meet in this And the high fives? I got the hajj. I got out. This is like, guys, you're nailing it. That's enough to tell me that a This is, like, 10 years ago. Yeah, that body. It's like you're so busy. I'm still smiling because the energy is I >> can't give you a hug. Give me a high five. Right. Good work, gentlemen. Thanks for the time. Always, he's still smiling to >> get you to a step. >> Good deal. Thanks for being with us. Thank you. Live on the Cube. 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