>>From around the globe, it's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. >>We continue our coverage here in the cube of AWS reinvent 2020, and we're now joined by guru Vasudeva, who was the chief technology officer at nationwide insurance and a good route. Good afternoon to you. Thanks for joining us here on the cube. Good news. Um, big announcement for you folks in terms of AWS and, uh, making that connection that you have even deeper and even broader going with AWS now is your preferred cloud provider. Um, let's just talk about, about making that kind of a commitment first off on your end. What were some of those key factors, those drivers that led you to say, okay, this is where we really want to sink our resources. >>Yeah. You know, uh, our journey with this that started almost, uh, two years ago, uh, and, uh, what we, uh, were looking for, uh, was a partner, uh, who is leading edge in the cloud capabilities, as well as the ones that are creating new services. Uh, and obviously AWS is definitely, uh, a great partner to do that. And then, uh, we also found that, uh, they have this, uh, AWS next program enterprise next program. So we, uh, found that to be pretty attractive as well, because it's not just about migrating the applications, but also modernizing them, uh, in a waiting. So they are, we're going to really give us not only the technical capability, but also access to talent and best practices. So we really entered into this partnership, uh, with AWS, uh, to do achieve all of the above. >>You know, there's, there's this, um, as you know, it's very popular or, or, um, uh, in Vogue, obviously it's talk about digital transformations, right? There are, women's going undergoing that is complete metamorphosis, uh, of your, uh, your VIT structure. But, but this is where you are. Uh, and you were already kind of in the, in the throws of this or in the midst of this, in terms of accelerating that process and refining that process, uh, what is AWS now bringing to your table and what did you want, what did you need from them to, to get you going a little bit quicker, maybe in the direction you were already going? >>Yeah. You know, one of the, um, like I will give you two answers. One on the technology side, they have got a huge array of services available in AI machine learning, data and analytics. So they're constantly, you know, weighting those things. So it makes it easier for us to really stitch together solutions that, uh, gives a better experience for our customers or for agents or our financial advisors, right. On the process side. Uh, what they really brought to about brought to bear is their own internal methodology for innovation. Uh, so they, uh, we've been able to really partner with our business partners and AWS to apply that methodology, uh, to really see, can we really do those kinds of things in an insurance company, right. And we have found that methodology to be of equal value. Hmm. >>You know, um, I mean, the fact is your portfolio is so broad or, or, or, you know, your arsenal, if you will, 2000 plus applications right here, are you guys up and running and you're moving a little less than half of them to AWS. I mean, this is a huge undertaking and the idea, obviously that to, to maintain business operations as usual. So tell us about that tight rope act. I mean, how, how do you manage that and keep business going, keep operations still humming. And in fact, you're already looking for new kind of efficiencies and new processes that make even a little sharper, a little leaner. Yeah. >>You know, uh, the approach that we took is it's a methodology that I've used with many of our, uh, transformations that I've had the opportunity to lead here at nationwide, uh, where we use a very methodical, repeatable process and we call it, we started with diagnostics. And then once you look at the diagnostics, you build a plan and then you execute the plan and then you go back and see, did it really give you the results and tweak the loop? Right. So our diagnostics methodology starts with looking at an existing application for us, for example, our claims system, uh, or our policy admin system, right. These are very critical systems for a company like us, and you can adjust, you know, migrate them and hope that it'll work out. Right. So instead we did a very methodical approach of diagnosing and saying, technologically architecture wise, what needs to change? >>What are the opportunities for optimizing them instead of just migrate them likewise, as it can really optimize it and migrated at the same time, how about security? What are the different things that we need to do on security wise? Right. And then last but not least is money, right. What does it cost for us on prime and can it cost cheaper? Uh, and if we really apply all of these different lovers, can we make it cheaper in the cloud? So we did all of those four different elements, and we found that methodology to be instrumental in our success story. This year, we migrated our claim system. We migrated our commercial lines policy, uh, admin system, or a personalized policy admin system, our nationwide.com and all of our financial services front ends. So it's a huge, like it's like the heart and soul of the company, uh, and they have, uh, gone extremely well. And we really attribute that to the methodical. I'm looking at all these dimensions. I don't know how you slept. >>I mean, th that, that is a, that's a full slate. Um, and to go back to the four points you were talking about earlier about, you know, the, the, the, the gains you got the last one that caught my eye or one that caught my attention, there was about the, the, uh, bottom line, the fact that you reduced costs that, that you did save money. So it is possible, uh, that this cloud migration, again, this is, uh, on a, uh, Archie overarching level. You can make this migration and go through this enormous transformation and, and still, >>So, yeah, add to the bottom line. Yeah. So the, uh, um, you know, many people these days, you read in the articles, Oh, well, cloud migration not necessarily saves you money, or that's not the real reason to do it. I didn't really want to accept that as an answer. Instead, what we really said is we want it to be better, faster, cheaper, all of the above, right. So we have challenged ourselves to say, um, what would it cost if we were to really keep it on prem and can, what changes we need to make in order to get the efficiency? For example, our claim system, if we were to migrate it like for lying, it would have cost us 25% more to run in the cloud. We said, no, we're going to tweak how we have architected, uh, how many, uh, how much storage we need, what kind of things we provision? Uh, so we changed the architecture and the underpinning and the engineering, and we were able to find that our 20% savings, right. So if you think about it, that's like a 45% swing. Uh, if we had not done the diagnostics after the migration, I would've been like, Oh my God, it actually costs us more money. And that we couldn't really do what what's been the >>Th the big gain in terms of, you talked about claims. So obviously it heart and soul of your company, insurance policies, both on the commercial and the residential side, or the, you know, the personal user. Um, >>I mean, what, what's been the biggest, >>Uh, impact, if you will, in terms of your core business, and then introducing these new technologies and these new efficiencies into the process, >>You know, uh, this year, uh, for us, uh, if you take a look at property and casualty companies like, uh, you know, insurance companies has been a very eventful year, not only with COVID, but also with all the other events that happened with the fires and the various tornadoes and so on. So when, uh, we have more claim volume, we can actually take our, uh, environment up and down seamlessly, right? We can add more capacity, very seamlessly. So that's a beast, uh, premise, if you will, off of the cloud is that you can actually consume more and you don't have to really wait for adding additional capacity. That part has actually worked out really well. And the reverse is true as well. We've been able to actually reduce capacity when we don't need it right on the base level. And on the more innovation level, we've been able to tap into AI machine learning kind of capabilities and stitch together, new experiences in our commercial line space, uh, to deliver, uh, new types of insights, new types of, uh, um, uh, solutions for our business partners. So we have been very pleased with how we've been able to stitch together solutions by kind of tapping into the various services that AWS bonds. >>Yeah, you were, you've been talking about, uh, all these, uh, tremendous innovations in terms of how you go about your business and how you do your business. And certainly you're realizing great benefit and gain from that. What about the other side, the, the, your customers, you know, millions of customers that you have, and as you said, experiencing a number of challenges this year to say the least, but at the end of the day, what has been the bottom line or what is going to be the bottom line for them, >>For them? Um, uh, our, uh, kind of, uh, kind of vision is completely transforming the customer experience that we provide them, uh, by digital capabilities, right? So they should be able to get to any answer that they want, whether it's beyond their cell phone or their computer, and to do that, uh, to provide that kind of service. Uh, I think these kinds of technologies actually enables us to really deliver that kind of a digital transformation. >>What about the security side of all this? Uh, I know that's part of your, of your concern too. I mean, it's certainly an area that that is receiving, uh, and understandably a lot of attention these days in terms of, uh, providing more secure solutions and, and, uh, making sure that there's customer data, which is so precious is protected. Um, in terms of all this activity that you're doing, you've got to put in that layer of security on top of that, right. Which is paramount to your success these days as a company, what kind of focus have you maybe reconfigured in that respect now with regard to security and your customers and, and your operational security too? >>Yeah. So, you know, in the diagnostics methodology that I talked about, security is one of those dimensions that we looked at, how do we secure the information on prem versus in the cloud? Uh, they're not like for, like, we need to apply different techniques, sometimes different technology. Uh, so we built that in from the beginning. And then, uh, the great thing is, you know, we have also learned a lot by working with Amazon, uh, about, uh, how do they do it? In-house right. I mean, they obviously run the biggest if you will, online, um, shopping capability out there and how did they do it? So that's the other kind of access to talent. That's been really helpful. Uh, and we look at this constantly, it says something, it's something that's evolving as new threat actors come on, board or new techniques of attack comes on board with constantly evaluating and making sure that we are fine tuning that security, whether it's on-prem or in the cloud. >>What of your headlights hit it now, when you look down the road, uh, I know you're, you're not done with this by any means. Uh, uh, I certainly understand that, but in terms of the next 12 to 18 months, uh, what kind of progress do you want to make and where do you think that you're gonna, you're going to have to where you want to make it the most? >>So on the, uh, on the efficiency side, uh, we've got a pretty big goal, uh, to reduce our expenses, uh, by hundreds of millions of dollars, we spent well over a billion dollars on technology every year, uh, and our cloud migration and optimization is definitely a key lever that we are, you know, uh, pulling. And so for me, uh, B have a target of, um, uh, applications that we wanted to, uh, one of migrate to the cloud and we will be done with 32% of them by the end of this year. And now they're 30 to 32% next year. So we've got ways to go, but in the next couple of years, we would be well on our way to really migrating what we want to migrate to the cloud. So that's definitely a big focus area while delivering savings on the innovation. Go ahead, please go ahead. Yeah. On the innovation side, uh, I think there is so much more to be done, whether it be internet of things or providing new, uh, offerings for our customer, for our agents, for financial advisors. Uh, so there are so many new things that we can do. And now that we've got a repeatable pattern for migration, our energy is going to really shift towards those more innovation, more new and additional experiences. That's where our energy is going to really shift. >>Well, you took a big step today, certainly with the announcement. I know the AWS partnership is one that you put a lot of value on. It certainly has been successful for you, and we wish you all the continued success as well as you, uh, head on into 2021. Thank you for joining us here today. Thanks John.

>>From around the globe, it's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. >>We continue our coverage here in the cube of AWS reinvent 2020, and we're now joined by guru Vasudeva, who was the chief technology officer at nationwide insurance and a good route. Good afternoon to you. Thanks for joining us here on the cube. Good news. Um, big announcement for you folks in terms of AWS and, uh, making that connection that you have even deeper and even broader going with AWS now is your preferred cloud provider. Um, let's just talk about, about making that kind of a commitment first off on your end. What were some of those key factors, those drivers that led you to say, okay, this is where we really want to sink our resources. >>Yeah. You know, uh, our journey with this that started almost, uh, two years ago, uh, and, uh, what we, uh, were looking for, uh, was a partner, uh, who is leading edge in the cloud capabilities, as well as the ones that are creating new services. Uh, and obviously AWS is definitely, uh, a great partner to do that. And then, uh, we also found that, uh, they have this, uh, AWS next program enterprise next program. So we, uh, found that to be pretty attractive as well, because it's not just about migrating the applications, but also modernizing them, uh, in a waiting. So they are, we're going to really give us not only the technical capability, but also access to talent and best practices. So we really entered into this partnership, uh, with AWS, uh, to do achieve all of the above. >>You know, there's, there's this, um, as you know, it's very popular or, or, um, uh, in Vogue, obviously it's talk about digital transformations, right? There are, women's going undergoing that is complete metamorphosis, uh, of your, uh, your VIT structure. But, but this is where you are. Uh, and you were already kind of in the, in the throws of this or in the midst of this, in terms of accelerating that process and refining that process, uh, what is AWS now bringing to your table and what did you want, what did you need from them to, to get you going a little bit quicker, maybe in the direction you were already going? >>Yeah. You know, one of the, um, like I will give you two answers. One on the technology side, they have got a huge array of services available in AI machine learning, data and analytics. So they're constantly, you know, weighting those things. So it makes it easier for us to really stitch together solutions that, uh, gives a better experience for our customers or for agents or our financial advisors, right. On the process side. Uh, what they really brought to about brought to bear is their own internal methodology for innovation. Uh, so they, uh, we've been able to really partner with our business partners and AWS to apply that methodology, uh, to really see, can we really do those kinds of things in an insurance company, right. And we have found that methodology to be of equal value. Hmm. >>You know, um, I mean, the fact is your portfolio is so broad or, or, or, you know, your arsenal, if you will, 2000 plus applications right here, are you guys up and running and you're moving a little less than half of them to AWS. I mean, this is a huge undertaking and the idea, obviously that to, to maintain business operations as usual. So tell us about that tight rope act. I mean, how, how do you manage that and keep business going, keep operations still humming. And in fact, you're already looking for new kind of efficiencies and new processes that make even a little sharper, a little leaner. Yeah. >>You know, uh, the approach that we took is it's a methodology that I've used with many of our, uh, transformations that I've had the opportunity to lead here at nationwide, uh, where we use a very methodical, repeatable process and we call it, we started with diagnostics. And then once you look at the diagnostics, you build a plan and then you execute the plan and then you go back and see, did it really give you the results and tweak the loop? Right. So our diagnostics methodology starts with looking at an existing application for us, for example, our claims system, uh, or our policy admin system, right. These are very critical systems for a company like us, and you can adjust, you know, migrate them and hope that it'll work out. Right. So instead we did a very methodical approach of diagnosing and saying, technologically architecture wise, what needs to change? >>What are the opportunities for optimizing them instead of just migrate them likewise, as it can really optimize it and migrated at the same time, how about security? What are the different things that we need to do on security wise? Right. And then last but not least is money, right. What does it cost for us on prime and can it cost cheaper? Uh, and if we really apply all of these different lovers, can we make it cheaper in the cloud? So we did all of those four different elements, and we found that methodology to be instrumental in our success story. This year, we migrated our claim system. We migrated our commercial lines policy, uh, admin system, or a personalized policy admin system, our nationwide.com and all of our financial services front ends. So it's a huge, like it's like the heart and soul of the company, uh, and they have, uh, gone extremely well. And we really attribute that to the methodical. I'm looking at all these dimensions. I don't know how you slept. >>I mean, th that, that is a, that's a full slate. Um, and to go back to the four points you were talking about earlier about, you know, the, the, the, the gains you got the last one that caught my eye or one that caught my attention, there was about the, the, uh, bottom line, the fact that you reduced costs that, that you did save money. So it is possible, uh, that this cloud migration, again, this is, uh, on a, uh, Archie overarching level. You can make this migration and go through this enormous transformation and, and still, >>So, yeah, add to the bottom line. Yeah. So the, uh, um, you know, many people these days, you read in the articles, Oh, well, cloud migration not necessarily saves you money, or that's not the real reason to do it. I didn't really want to accept that as an answer. Instead, what we really said is we want it to be better, faster, cheaper, all of the above, right. So we have challenged ourselves to say, um, what would it cost if we were to really keep it on prem and can, what changes we need to make in order to get the efficiency? For example, our claim system, if we were to migrate it like for lying, it would have cost us 25% more to run in the cloud. We said, no, we're going to tweak how we have architected, uh, how many, uh, how much storage we need, what kind of things we provision? Uh, so we changed the architecture and the underpinning and the engineering, and we were able to find that our 20% savings, right. So if you think about it, that's like a 45% swing. Uh, if we had not done the diagnostics after the migration, I would've been like, Oh my God, it actually costs us more money. And that we couldn't really do what what's been the >>Th the big gain in terms of, you talked about claims. So obviously it heart and soul of your company, insurance policies, both on the commercial and the residential side, or the, you know, the personal user. Um, >>I mean, what, what's been the biggest, >>Uh, impact, if you will, in terms of your core business, and then introducing these new technologies and these new efficiencies into the process, >>You know, uh, this year, uh, for us, uh, if you take a look at property and casualty companies like, uh, you know, insurance companies has been a very eventful year, not only with COVID, but also with all the other events that happened with the fires and the various tornadoes and so on. So when, uh, we have more claim volume, we can actually take our, uh, environment up and down seamlessly, right? We can add more capacity, very seamlessly. So that's a beast, uh, premise, if you will, off of the cloud is that you can actually consume more and you don't have to really wait for adding additional capacity. That part has actually worked out really well. And the reverse is true as well. We've been able to actually reduce capacity when we don't need it right on the base level. And on the more innovation level, we've been able to tap into AI machine learning kind of capabilities and stitch together, new experiences in our commercial line space, uh, to deliver, uh, new types of insights, new types of, uh, um, uh, solutions for our business partners. So we have been very pleased with how we've been able to stitch together solutions by kind of tapping into the various services that AWS bonds. >>Yeah, you were, you've been talking about, uh, all these, uh, tremendous innovations in terms of how you go about your business and how you do your business. And certainly you're realizing great benefit and gain from that. What about the other side, the, the, your customers, you know, millions of customers that you have, and as you said, experiencing a number of challenges this year to say the least, but at the end of the day, what has been the bottom line or what is going to be the bottom line for them, >>For them? Um, uh, our, uh, kind of, uh, kind of vision is completely transforming the customer experience that we provide them, uh, by digital capabilities, right? So they should be able to get to any answer that they want, whether it's beyond their cell phone or their computer, and to do that, uh, to provide that kind of service. Uh, I think these kinds of technologies actually enables us to really deliver that kind of a digital transformation. >>What about the security side of all this? Uh, I know that's part of your, of your concern too. I mean, it's certainly an area that that is receiving, uh, and understandably a lot of attention these days in terms of, uh, providing more secure solutions and, and, uh, making sure that there's customer data, which is so precious is protected. Um, in terms of all this activity that you're doing, you've got to put in that layer of security on top of that, right. Which is paramount to your success these days as a company, what kind of focus have you maybe reconfigured in that respect now with regard to security and your customers and, and your operational security too? >>Yeah. So, you know, in the diagnostics methodology that I talked about, security is one of those dimensions that we looked at, how do we secure the information on prem versus in the cloud? Uh, they're not like for, like, we need to apply different techniques, sometimes different technology. Uh, so we built that in from the beginning. And then, uh, the great thing is, you know, we have also learned a lot by working with Amazon, uh, about, uh, how do they do it? In-house right. I mean, they obviously run the biggest if you will, online, um, shopping capability out there and how did they do it? So that's the other kind of access to talent. That's been really helpful. Uh, and we look at this constantly, it says something, it's something that's evolving as new threat actors come on, board or new techniques of attack comes on board with constantly evaluating and making sure that we are fine tuning that security, whether it's on-prem or in the cloud. >>What of your headlights hit it now, when you look down the road, uh, I know you're, you're not done with this by any means. Uh, uh, I certainly understand that, but in terms of the next 12 to 18 months, uh, what kind of progress do you want to make and where do you think that you're gonna, you're going to have to where you want to make it the most? >>So on the, uh, on the efficiency side, uh, we've got a pretty big goal, uh, to reduce our expenses, uh, by hundreds of millions of dollars, we spent well over a billion dollars on technology every year, uh, and our cloud migration and optimization is definitely a key lever that we are, you know, uh, pulling. And so for me, uh, B have a target of, um, uh, applications that we wanted to, uh, one of migrate to the cloud and we will be done with 32% of them by the end of this year. And now they're 30 to 32% next year. So we've got ways to go, but in the next couple of years, we would be well on our way to really migrating what we want to migrate to the cloud. So that's definitely a big focus area while delivering savings on the innovation. Go ahead, please go ahead. Yeah. On the innovation side, uh, I think there is so much more to be done, whether it be internet of things or providing new, uh, offerings for our customer, for our agents, for financial advisors. Uh, so there are so many new things that we can do. And now that we've got a repeatable pattern for migration, our energy is going to really shift towards those more innovation, more new and additional experiences. That's where our energy is going to really shift. >>Well, you took a big step today, certainly with the announcement. I know the AWS partnership is one that you put a lot of value on. It certainly has been successful for you, and we wish you all the continued success as well as you, uh, head on into 2021. Thank you for joining us here today. Thanks John.

>> Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering IBM thing twenty nineteen brought to you by IBM. >> Hey, welcome back here when we're here. Live in San Francisco for IBM. Think twenty nineteen, two cubes Exclusive coverage. I'm over here, students to it's been four days. Were our fourth day powered through a lot of interviews. Obstructing the Civic Lanois number one live event covers a Cuba to great guests here. Ashutosh Mooney, vice president, Applications services with an IBM and carried to lose chief technology officer nationwide Building society in the UK Great to have you guys. Thank you, John, for applications. Big part of the focus because the applications air now dictating the data strategy. The II with a and you could cloud multi cloud underneath. So the chained, changing market requirements around what, after doing are super important? All this is a focus. It's dictating that the infrastructure what to do so that this is the key to the cloud. Talk about what you guys are doing. >> Absolutely, absolutely, in fact, not just for IBM. For clients, mostly for them to be able to ready for their customers, they need to make sure that their applications are up there for their customer experience as well. What we're seeing is most of these supper clients today are saying that all the work that they have done in past for the last five, ten years that's the core that they have been in there trying to look at how they can minimize the spend on that and maximize the spending a ll. The customer facing applications like to enhance the customer experience >> they call and you call that the workload? Oh, yes. Load is code for applications. Carry your customer of IBM. Let me explain what you guys do first. Then we can talk about some things you're working on, >> So we are a large, UK based mutual building society. We have about fifteen million members in the U. K. But you can think of us as a bank. In many respects, most people do. Challenge throws us, as you said, is basically we have thirty or forty years of legacy technology. We need to transform that technology and also bill the next generation digital services alongside that technology. So if Rose, it's the combination of how do we transform that legacy core whilst also building from you? >> And what are some of the use case is that the new technology going bring you because containers has been great with legacy because you don't kill the old to bring in the new. As you look at the modern modernization journey, you're on What is guiding principles? One things you guys are looking at, how you guys thinking that through? >> Okay, so a number of things. One is we've been on a thirty year journey towards looser and looser coupling on smaller and smaller micro services. So what you're starting to see is big applications, monolithic applications being broken down into services and the micro services. So for us, the key is the smaller and smaller micro services. The more agility we can create more value great. And that loose coupling them becomes really important because that then allows us to deliver a high level of parallelism in development in change. So those are two key areas. >> It has it going today. Good scar tissue. You learning its >> learning and its iterating and it's failing and its understanding. But the main thing is, you know, the more we do, the more we learn, the more we can then build that back into Nick's situation. >> Actually, I always love to hear, especially the financial services ones that have been around a while that that modernization and how they do that, I couldn't help but notice. You're both wearing the, you know, I heart a I the shirts. So if you connect the dots for us between that application modernization and the wave of a ay >> yeah. So I heard that Tom fail fast and fail regular. I mean, it's all good until you actually have atleast one success, right? Failing fast is good, but you cannot escape feeling. So where it comes into play is primarily making sure that you're basing your those decisions on what have been proven right in Pastor's. Well, so what we have seen, especially for financial services, is even though the system's off engagement has changed the fundamental principles on which the banking services all the insurance services operator has not changed. So you're still wearing the same set of services just in different ways. The expectation of the client has changed, but the services remain the same. So our ability to be ableto look at what we have been doing in past which services makes sense to be Microsoft's enabled us getting talked about. It's not that you just take all the functions and enable them. That's where we're able to bring value Tour Kari. What's the impact >> on this on your ultimate and user >> better value? So for us, it's about helping our members, who are customers, to make better financial decisions on. To do that, they need data. So what we're trying to do is to really take that Legacy estate, which is really about locking data into the course. Or we can use it trying to liberate that day to get it out into the hands of our members so they could make better decisions on a eyes were really keep part of >> you. I mean that that was what we think back to. That wave of big data was the I should be able to have smaller companies, you know, not take years and millions of dollars to be able to do that. Tell us what's different about, you know today in a I that that we might not have been able to do five years >> ago. There's a couple of things, really. So one is compute power. So what you're seeing really is eyes is not necessarily advancing massively in terms of the algorithms and the approaches in the methodologies. What you're seeing, though, is compute power in storage capacity growing at an exponential rate store. So what it's doing is enabling those algorithms to work in a way that they've never been able to do before. We're getting to value quicker because the time it takes to reach that value is much shorter. >> I want to get your perspective on you mentioned parallel breaking down, decoupling things with looser sets the services. This is certainly the cloud way make AP eyes have micro services. Big part of it. How is that going from a culture standpoint? Because this is one of the things we hear all the time is it's a cultural journey to one. Get people lined up with that. And then what if some of the business benefits that you see what this parallel isn't? His efficiency is an innovation. Where do you see that culture? What did What did you do to change the culture? Go. Cheers. Um, this is what people want to know about. >> So in fact, what we're seeing is a majority of the clients have started to look into this because everybody else was because somebody digital native out there was doing it, so they some of them actually last on too quickly. They have not been ableto change their internal culture within the organization when the customers were ready, but their internal organizations or not. But I think plants like Cup NBS have sought out a fairly good strategy, and it will be great to get if you can >> share with your secret sauce that you like Carrot Stick. They were gonna go this way or you burn the boats, as they say at the How did you get people to go in the right direction? >> For us? There's a really, really important related past this the culture of the people from a culture perspective. You know, we've got teams of people who have been doing phenomenal pieces of work for thirty forty years coming to the end of their career. And you know, the technology that we're using again, we're looking at and the service life. So how do we how do we get away from that world where we're constantly focusing on the legacy to start focusing on new technology? So it's bringing in new people with new ideas. It's changing the way we work, so we started to focus on things like our child. They've ops, automation, new ways of working to allow people to really sort of liberate away from the old ways of working and give them new ideas and new opportunities. That's part of that as well. There's a couple of things in there for us which is really important. So one is bringing new technologies in bringing new people in that Khun, use those technologies. We also have to make sure we keep our own people trained up as well, so we can't forget the people that we've got. So it's it's a set of different things, >> and training is critical. Was gonna open source out there. It's like, you know, every years like a dog here, and you gotta keep up to date, Keep learning >> and all these aspects of procreation, right? So you cannot do it in isolation if you're doing it together. I mean, whether use design, thinking or not right, that's it. That's it. That's the way to do it. But I think the aspect of co creating in your end stakeholders and your own stakeholders, Orin more >> talk about more about that, cause this is a big team co creation we love doing with content were in the Q. We're doing it here with constant when you get into development. This is a new psychological dynamic, but also it's a productivity opportunity. Can you share what you're seeing there? Explain co creation a litte bit deeper >> Look so that we talk hypothetically, right? So from hypothetical perspective, if we were able to look at organization or a flat form where were able to access an amount ofthe computational power computation skills are programming skills. Our ability to be able to do the most creative expects for any use case and industry would be enormous. We just don't have that. We're limited to specific parts that were working with the Limited with specific employees that we have Andrea limited to the customers that were kids, and I think if we expand, so while we don't have, uh, handle off all the things that we haven't played. But if you are able to bring in our customers or internal stakeholders as well as our partners that we're working with and are able to build a common team and one of those common themes could be that I need to get you those services quickly and then figure out how to three can actually work in tandem we'll be able to make. >> How does that change your engagement model? Because I might be the same in eight days there, Miss Captain. Well, we used to do that before we usedto partner and understand their needs Bring solutions to the marketplace. Is it more software driven? So what's changed from the old way to the new way? Because I don't agree with you, by the way, I'm not I'm not a skeptic, but, yeah, that was what skeptic might say. >> Yeah, no, I think earlier what was happening was they were It was more offering leg and what I mean by offering letters these of the sex I have. And let's make these assets find the solutions. So what people will do is they will say this is the banking solution I have in this specific case and let's figure out what fifteen things I can >> do without those solutions. >> Approach now is different. They approach now is This is what the customer is demanding and the reason they're demanding is because customers expectation is based on there most recent experience that they had somewhere else, not necessarily with the bank. They may have experience and over, so when they have experienced that experience there, they want the similar services from the bank. So now the co creation model is actually starting from the other side of the equation rather than coming from Essex out. That's >> so it's flipped. The old model was hears. We got here's what you could do, Your limited and now it's like is what we want to do >> This ice >> program the infrastructure and focus on software to find agile. This is seems to be the new way. >> Let me add to that as well, because I think one of the things that we've done over the last year is really focusing on what our technology strategy, how this technology going change. Our business we've done is created a strategy where our ambition actually exceeds our ability to execute. So from a co creation perspective, we actually need really good partners are going to work with us in that context on be strong challenges br critical friend in the process. >> So it's more efficient and more productive. You get best of both worlds and the outcomes are more aligned via agile. Got me more acute on target. Many pretty much that >> getting Carrie actually love to get your perspective on like, what does it mean to have a cloud strategy today? We heard this week. You know, Jenny said, We're, you know, entering chapter to of the clouds. We took care of the twenty percent that was a little bit easier. We're getting eighty harder. Lots of customers I talked to. It's It's changing all the time, and things like hybrid and multi Cloud don't really mean much to them. Got serious in your shop, how you think of things. >> Great question. I think it's changing, and it's different from industry to industry. So I'm banking. The challenge for us has always been regulation has been the regulators pushing back on public cloud and saying, You know, we were nervous about that. Have you manage the security of the controls around that? So a lot of banking is focused on private Cloud? Can we adopt the technology in those banking's those styles of technology delivery in the private cloud way? But we're now starting to see that there is this shift towards public cloud with the economic advantage that public cloud house on the innovation that's going on in public cloud. It's becoming really attractive. So the strategy for us is about how do we make that happen? How do we build that multi cloud model? And then how do we move that sort of hybrid model from private to public and get the advantages of the different styles of cloud computing? >> Guys, Thanks for coming on, Given the inside love, this Dev ops Co creation model and really applications air driving the requirements now with programmable infrastructure. This is changing. The procurement is changing. The culture hiring strategist is really disrupted. This is really the digital transformation. It's all about creating great shop. Thanks for coming on. We appreciate final question while we're here. Thoughts on think this year in San Francisco. Libit Rainy February. That's okay, but all tightly together. What's your thoughts? What's the themes? What's your What's the top story here? >> Getting your pops? >> Whether it makes me feel like >> home is fantastic. Eso No, it's been It's been an amazing week. >> Lots of innovation, Lots of great conversation. So I really enjoyed it. >> Yeah, No, absolutely. I think we've gone around myself, even though we are definitely aware of what's going on in here. But I think there have been lots of partner ecosystem that has been here, and I think that collaboration has been great. Thank you. >> It's been great. Show a lot of inside Kaspar perspective. Thanks for sharing what your journeys on and some specifics Way appreciates. A cube coverage. I'm shoppers to Minuteman. Stay with us for a day, for we're four days a coverage. We're here on day for Stay with us for more after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge18 here in Las Vegas, Nevada. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host Dave Vellante. We're joined by Michael D'Ippolito. He is the VP of Run Services at Nationwide Insurance. He's coming to us straight from Columbus, Ohio. So thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me, appreciate it. >> So tell our viewers a little bit about what you do. What is Run Services? What do you do at Nationwide? >> Sure, yes. We are a part of what we call our infrastructure and operations group and we're really an enterprise services group. Basically in my resposibility, I have resposibility over our data centers, over what we call our enterprise command centers. Pretty much the eyes on glass, 24 by 7 operations that kind of keeps everything running. Also, I have resposibility for all our run processes. So our ITSM processes, both from a process ownership and a process management. So that's where ServiceNow really comes in. >> So we've talked about this before, Mike. It's just in terms of the insurance business. Some of the things that are driving that business. We always talk about digital disruption but it's really, the insurance business hasn't really been digitally disrupted. Maybe it's coming. Not maybe, I'm sure it's coming. But what's driving your business today and how important, important is the wrong word. How much of a factor is digital in terms of the decisions that you make on a day-to-day basis? >> Well, it's huge. You know, as you probably heard we're really at a big inflection point in the world today and we are going to be disrupted and we actually focus on how can we disrupt ourselves because somebody else is going to. It's just a matter of time until Amazon wants to get into the insurance business. >> Dave: That's right. (Rebecca and Dave laugh) >> We laugh but you know. >> No, I know they're planning it. >> They're selling groceries. You're not really competing with other insurance carriers anymore. You're competing with Amazon and Google for that experience, that user experience, that ease of use, that direct interaction. You know, when you think about it, home and auto insurance, it's kind of a commodity. It's like buying your gas and electric. So you've got to be able to create that direct experience to our members, to our consumers just like an Amazon would. >> We hear so much of these buzzwords at this conference but also just in general in the technology industry. Automation, streamlining, this emphasis on customer experience. How do these play in to your digital transformation in terms of what you're thinking about at Nationwide? >> Yeah, right now one of our big drivers is what we call the need for speed. Speed is everything right now in terms of staying competitive, coming out with features as fast as possible. And when you think about it, the only way to really get fast is you have to be automated, right? You can't be manual and fast. So really now we have to look at, how can we automate everything and how do we treat infrastructure like software, basically, like code. And we can roll out changes any time, any day, any hour, versus the old days when you had these big releases once a month of your applications. Those days are kind of gone. >> So I got to ask you about, I mean, one of the things that cloud brought was this notion of self-service. There's certainly pressure for customers to do self-service. You see that, they're going to comparison shop, they're going to pick their package, et cetera. So that's part of the disruption and then the other part is potentially on the actuarial side, the actuarial robots. What do you see happening there and how is that affecting your business? >> That actually is an interesting use case. That's probably where big data is really coming into play. So for example, in auto insurance, your rates change every six months and what we do is we look backwards and say how did you drive over those last six months? Did you have accidents? Did you have tickets? You know, et cetera, and then we price you accordingly. Well, now with the information, the data we can get out of your vehicle 24 by 7, we can price you every day. So we can look at basically what's called metered insurance or insurance by the mile that we use the technology to enable that kind of a pricing model. >> And I would imagine you're at the point where you can begin to predict riskier situations. >> Absolutely, and anticipate it just like they do in health care, right, so, you know, not much different but yeah, that's definitely a new thing coming. >> You're collecting all of this data. I mean and this is the thing about the collection of the data is the easy part really but it's really knowing what the data is telling you and then how to act on the data in the right way. >> Yes. >> So is it a lot of trial and error or how are you determining what insights are the actionable ones? >> Well, as you know, a very popular skill out there are data scientists. Data and analytics, that's huge right now. So getting people who have that skill to understand the so what from the data and to be able to make good decisions on it, and then how do you even automate that? That's a big field right now actually. >> We're obvioulsy ways away but you see it in the news pretty much every day. You go to Silicon Valley, you can't miss it. What's the conversation like around autonomous vehicles? Because everybody says, well the problem is who's liable if something goes wrong and then you see that big accident, the Uber situation. What's the conversation like internally around that? >> It's going to be here sooner than you think. It's already here. You're seeing it more and more. You're seeing every car getting smarter now. It's getting closer and closer. It's an inevitable future. We are going to have those. And so now we have to look at what is going to be the actual model around that? We'll figure that out. But as you know, in a lot of these industries, the technology has really been ahead of the regulation. When Uber came out, there were basically discussions about coverage and liability and all those kinds of things. So normally in any fast-paced technology, usually it leads and then the rest follows. It'll get figured out. >> And I think you will figure it out because you guys are good with numbers. (laughs) Insurance companies can always figure out the cost of insuring something, right? >> Right. >> Should we envision kind of a hybrid shared risk model between the consumer and the technology supplier? Or do you think it's all going to be in the consumer? >> Well, it's hard to say exactly but we know there will be some compression in insurance because of it. And really, you might get to the point where the software is what gets insured and not the person. >> Right. >> Right. So we're already talking to automakers about how do you insure the actual vehicle versus the person driving it because they're not driving it anymore. >> That's a shock to the 100-plus-year-old system, isn't it? (laughs) >> Absolutely. Again, it was a shock when people said, you mean we're not going to use horses anymore? >> (Rebecca laughs) Good point. Point taken. >> So you go through time and there's these big revolutions that happen and I think we're approaching one. >> Talk about the ServiceNow situation. We've talked about your journey before but maybe remind us of that, where you are, what you thought of the new announcements today, maybe give us an update. >> Yeah, we're excited. We've been on ServiceNow for almost three years. Over the last year, we've made tremendous progress in terms of, we have a program now called IT Simplification and a little shout out to my partner Rick Schnierer who is my AVP who runs the platform for us. They do a great job. I'm kind of like the business partner to them. Right now what we're doing is it's a focus on configuration management and we're slowly retiring legacy systems and repositories across the company into the one single source which is in ServiceNow. We're also really focused on hardware and software asset management. Getting an understanding of all the assets we own and constantly scanning the network to understand who's connecting in and if it's a threat, if it's a good guy or a bad guy, that's important. Very important right now. And then lastly, like I said, the need for speed. How can our operations side support this need for increased pace of development? Because once you put it in, it's got to operate, right? And it's go to run. >> So where are you at today? Mostly, so ITSM, doing SecOps or did I infer that or no? >> Yeah, we have all the ITSM in. Actually we're moving to Kingston this weekend. We're doing that upgrade. We are involved with the HR module. We're bringing in Workday as our platform in July and ServiceNow will integrate with that. We're looking at the portfolio management. So now that we have the ITSM under control, we're slowly looking at where else can ServiceNow play for us? Cloud's a big play for us so, you know, we're right now working with a cloud provider and then there's a lot of APIs and interfacing back into ServiceNow. So that's going to be important for us. >> And you're saying for infrastructure? Cloud for infrastructure? >> Correct. >> Or infrastructure's a service? >> Correct, right now, well, we focus on SaaS first. Anything that can be SaaS, we want to go SaaS. ServiceNow is a perfect example. Salesforce.com, all those kinds of SaaS solutions. Then IaaS and PaaS are also important, right? So right now, by the end of 2018, we'll only be about probably 10% external cloud and 90% on-prem, but three years from now, it'll be the other way around. We'll probably be 90% cloud. >> Awesome. >> What keeps you coming back to Knowledge? >> You know, it's just the, look at this crowd. >> I know, it's true. >> I mean, the networking, the peers you meet. It's been so great because you have that time of year where you can share ideas, share stories, and all that. Where ServiceNow is going with the platform is always so interesting and appealing. We're really interested in hearing and getting to that agent workspace which I think would be great for internal, like our help desk services. So, more automation inline with where we're going. We think it's a great platform for that. >> Rebecca: Great, well Michael, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. It was great talking to you. >> Great, thank you. >> Thanks, enjoyed it, thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Dave Vellante, we will have more from theCUBE's coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge18 just after this.

>> Narrator: Live from Orlando Florida, it's theCUBE! Covering ServiceNow, Knowledge17. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Hi everybody, we're back. This is theCUBE and we're live from Knowledge17, I'm Dave Vellante with Jeff Frick. Michael Dippolito, did I say that right? >> D'Ippolito, close enough. >> D'Ippolito, sorry about that. A fellow Italian, I should get that right. D'Ippolito is assistant Vice President of Run Services Delivery, infrastructure and operations for Nationwide Insurance. Nationwide is on your side. >> You got it. It's in our heads right? >> I remember that. >> What a great marketing campaign. Michael, great to see you, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> So how's Knowledge going for ya? >> Very good, very good. I'm really excited about some of the new things coming out with the newest release that was just announced this morning. And as a matter of fact I'm ready to go back and say let's jump to that version right? Because it sounds really exciting. >> So where are you right now? Which version are you on? Are you on the Helsinki? >> We are on the Helsinki release now. We usually like to jump a couple and stay as current as we can, usually you know one release behind maybe but if we find there's good functionality in jumping one we'll do it. >> I want to come back and talk about that, because we like to pick your brains about what's the best practice there, but before we do maybe set up your role at Nationwide. >> Yeah, RunService is a pretty large organization for Nationwide, through acquisitions and through our legacy environments, we have lots of application systems, you know, keeping all those running is a monumental task. So, our group is kind of sitting mainly in the middle of the applications, the infrastructure, the process, and trying to help everything stay running smoothly. >> Okay and you started with IT service management change management, like most customers, is that right? And then, you've been evolving that. Can you talk about that a little bit? >> Yeah we just implemented, about a year ago actually, we installed a year ago. >> Okay. >> We went with the Fuji release that we implemented then we've already jumped to Helsinki, and we pretty much went all processes all at once and kind of a big bang. We actually did ask that management at first does a little bit of a pilot, but then we actually went through all the other ITSM functionality, big bang after that. >> Jeff: So you're all in. >> Michael: Yeah. >> So what was life like, you know, give us a before and after, and maybe take us through the business case and how that all came about. >> I'll give you a perfect example, I just kind of did an after action review for our senior management, on our previous platform, which was an on prem heavily customized platform, to take a release would require a year and a half with a lot of planning and about a million dollars. >> Jeff: To do an upgrade. >> To do an upgrade. (Jeff Laughing) This last release to Helsinki went about six weeks, and about $100,000. So, that's a huge business case right there. Being able to be in the cloud, not having to worry about the infrastructure ourselves, and really we drove a model of zero customization so we wanted to stay out of box as much as possible, just for that reason so we could take releases fast and stay current. >> Wow, I'm sure that benefits. >> In the, you know, was situtation, the cost was predominantly people cost, programming cost, license cost, maintenance, consultants? >> It was mostly hours of effort. >> Yeah. >> The amount of customization we had and then to retrofit and test all those changes back into the release from the vendor was a monumental task and we never want to get into that situation again. >> And so with the ServiceNow upgrade, it's not out of pocket cost as much, you're quantifying time, is that correct? >> Correct. >> Yeah okay. >> It's mostly our internal cost. >> You said the time it took was a year and a half and then, like a typical upgrade in ServiceNow is, >> Michael: Less than two months. >> Okay. >> For us to bring it in test it, exercise it, making sure all our customizations, or configurations actually I should say, are working well. And a lot of it is more just the change management around it, you know, putting out the word, the communications, doing a little bit of training, or whatever it takes to get ready for a smooth launch. >> And some of the upfront planning of that as well. Now, when we talk to customers, there seems to be, we heard today that 90% of customers are adopting service catalog, CMDB, I don't know. It's mixed, right? We hear some yes, some no. Maybe tell us your experiences. >> We have a huge focus on CMDB right now. We think that CMDB is basically the foundation to all your other processes to run more smoothly right? So good trustworthy data enables faster incident resolution, better problem solving, more rigorous change management so you asses your risk of change better. So really when we sold our CMDB project, we didn't sell it based on the CMDB, we sold it based on all those other things, >> All the benefits. >> That get a ramp off of it. You know, from doing that effort. So, we're putting a lot of effort on CMDB maturity. >> So you were talking before about some of the things you saw today in Jakarta that were of interest before we go there, you had mentioned you started with Fuji, and now you're on Helsinki. What was the, you didn't double leapfrog did you? Or did you? What's your upgrade strategy? You said you might be an N minus one, but you like to stay pretty current. What's your strategy in regards to upgrades? >> Right now, we're looking at trying to be N minus one >> Uh huh. >> and taking two per year. So looking at two releases a year. We're trying to plan our schedules around maybe spring and fall. So we organize our work and our patterns around that. But something like that. We haven't really solidified that yet. A lot of it depends on what we see coming up, and what we can take advantage of. Like for example, we're getting ready to implement Work Day. And we want to make sure we have great integration between Work Day and ServiceNow. Some of the things that Jakarta is going to offer us is going to integrate nicely into Work Day. So, we may jump to that version because of that. >> So we heard this morning that the big things, well CJ set up the big things in Jakarta were going to be performance, obviously everybody better performance, maybe some UX stuff in there too, vendor risk management, and then the software asset management, which got the big cheers and the whoohoo! >> Yeah. (Jeff chuckling) >> Yeah, so, what in Jakarta is appealing to you? >> This software as a management I'd say, is very interesting because we're looking at that very closely right now in terms of our strategy around that. The other one I really like is the performance analytics and the predictive analytics that are coming out. I'd really love to be able to benchmark ourselves against other companies in terms of how we're doing. I feel we beat ourselves up a lot internally around things like availability or performance. But then, when I look and talk to others, we're not so bad. (Jeff chuckling) We're actually doing pretty good. So it'd be nice to get that benchmarking. >> Right, right. >> And some of that trend analysis that's offered. And then, finally, how do we get into a more predictive analytics mode where we can prevent incidents from happening before they do? So that's key. >> It was interesting, listening to Farrell Hough this morning talk about sort of the evolution of automation. How do you look at automation? Some shops are afraid of automation, but it seems like the ServiceNow customers we talk to really can't go fast enough. What is your thought, and how are you evolving automation? >> Well, one of our key drivers right now is how do we increase the speed of delivery to the marketplace? But, we also have to stay safe and reliable, right? And the key to speed is through automation. You can't really get that speed if you're not highly automated. And, to be highly automated, you need really high trustworthy data. So that enables fast decision making, and accuracy. >> Jeff: And that ties back to your CMDB commitment. >> Exactly, so, that all entailed enables speed, which we really want because in today's world speed is everything in terms of how you're constantly adapting your systems of engagement out there with your customers. Constantly learning from their patterns and adjusting on the fly. And that requires new mindsets. >> So you start with IT service management, you've got HR as well, is that right? >> We don't have the HR model. Right now we're only IT service management. >> Okay, straight IT services. >> We're looking at other modules, as we speak. >> Okay, so you want to make sure you get the value out of the initial ITSM, and then, how do you see that, you know, evolving? What is the conversation like internally? Do the business lines say, wow, all of a sudden we're getting improved service, and how are you doing that? Or is it more of a push where you go out to the business and say hey, here are some ideas. How does that all work? >> I'll tell you what we're really starting to see is a really change in what's driving innovation. And it's more coming from IT versus, the former models where IT was kind of like the order taker, and the business came up with everything they needed. Now, with the pace of change with technology, new business models are coming from IT to the business. And we're actually almost seeing ourselves more of an IT company than we are an insurance company. And, you starting to see those patterns especially with things like, now we're talking about metered insurance for auto, right? So basically, pay by the mile insurance, versus paying the same rate for six months. With the data we're getting out of vehicles today we can adjust your rates on the fly as you drive. Why should you pay the same rate if your car sits in the garage all weekend, versus you take it out and drive it 200 miles, right? So with the kind of data, big data and analytics that are coming from the vehicles we can do that now. >> So how is that conversation taking place? Is it being initiated by somebody in the IT staff that says hey, did you know that we have this data and we can do this? Let's take it to the business unit. Or does the business unit saying, I just saw Flo, the competitor, sticking the little thing in the dashboard? (Michael chuckling) Can we do that too? You know, there's a lot of talk about IT taking a seat at the business table >> Right. >> But how have you seen it actually been executed inside of Nationwide? >> Actually what we're seeing is, the lines are very blurry now between IT and the business. Almost to where, we're just a team working together versus the silos you used to have, and throwing the ideas over the fence. So we actually have a team that their goal is strategy and innovation. They report up through our CIO, and then business line teams have similar organizations, and they all work in a matrix fashion together. So anybody can bring any type of idea to the table, regardless of who you report up through. And we take those into consideration and we look for partners, we've got partners coming to us all the time that want to join us in innovation. And so it doesn't have to be our own solution. It could just be us on the back end of somebody else's front end, right? So, there's a lot of interesting ideas coming at us. >> What's happening in the business Mike? I mean you've got, obviously you're supporting the big systems or claims, you've got your agents systems, but mobile has exploded onto the scene. >> Yes. >> How has that affected you? What are some of the drivers in the insurance business these days? >> Well, definitely we're in this digital world now so, mobile first is critical. Everything has to be mobile enabled. We have to think of our strategy in a digital way constantly so we have a whole digital strategy that we work on. The traditional models of agency sold insurance won't ever really go away, per se, but they are shrinking. You see the demands and needs of the millennials coming up, very differently and changing. You have to compete on price to get in the door. That's important, so again we're trying to find all those interaction or intercept points with our customers as they need us. People don't really like to think of insurance, it's not on top of mind in their day to day life. But, when certain events happen like oh, I'm going to get married, or I'm going to take a trip, or you know, those kinds of things. >> Jeff: Right, kid turns sixteen. >> Yeah, we have different ways to interact with our customers, and offer some solutions that meet their need at the time. >> Well it seems like you're right, to be competitive, you've got to have the right price for those that say okay, I've got to get insurance, I need to start somewhere, great, but are you able to, as an industry, sell value? I mean, increasingly you're seeing some companies I would say Nationwide is one, where you're selling value. >> Yeah. >> Is that a trend in the business? >> Absolutely, I'll give you an example. One of the things that, normally the insurance model used to be I buy insurance and I'm protected when something bad happens. then when something bad happens, you compensate me. You pay my claim. But what about, if we can help you prevent the bad thing from even happening? So with products like our Smart Home package that you can buy now with internet of things, we can put sensors on those hot water tanks or on those pipes, or connected to your alarm system so that maybe we could alert you when we see your pipe is about to break. >> Right so, we cover, as you know our audience, we cover big data a lot. And the data business, and the insurance business have come mashing together, right? You had mentioned before, Mike, in many regards you're becoming an IT company and digitization is all about data. And the data allows you guys to build new products, to offer new services, to be more competitive and at the end of the day it's all about speed. >> Correct, speed and then that helps drive that value equation, right? So it's not so much being the lowest price, although you have to have a good price to be in the game, but then after that how can you provide that value? >> I'm curious Mike, from an insurance point of view, where before the business was based on, you know you didn't have so much data, right? So you had some big swaths, Age, sex, smoker, not smoker, but now as you're able to get data to the individual level, how that changes the way you look at it? Because it's very different than just kind of aggregating to the bulk, and then the poor unfortunate soul who has a car wreck, you pay the claim. But now, like you said, you know if I'm driving on the weekends, or if I'm parking my car. How is that really shaping the way that you guys look at the marketplace and the opportunities? >> Well you know, in the old days, you used to be able to take basically a subset of data from the past, and make your decisions based on that. >> A subset of data from the past, I love that. >> Now we're taking all the data in real time. >> In real time. >> So that puts more demands on the need for the technologies to provide that. It's critical, like especially if we're going to change your rates daily on how we insure your car, we have to have all the data, all the time. >> I remember Abhi Mehta, one of our early big data CUBE interviews, he made the statement in 2010 he said, "Sampling is dead." And, now, some people will debate that but the point he was making is just the same one you just made Michael is that you've got that data coming in, streaming it in real time. Some consumers, you know, have an issue with sticking that little meter in their car, but ultimately, that's the trend. It's going to happen. >> And you know we're seeing, and you're probably seeing it in other businesses as well, if you can provide that value, customers will give you the access and the data, because they see a value in return. So, it's that value equation. If it's good enough, they'll give you the value, and they'll give you the data. >> Dave: Yeah, you see it every day in mobile apps, right? >> Correct. >> You know, you're in New York City trying to get somewhere and it's like, turn on location services and I can help you. >> When you download any app, there's a big screen that comes up and you say I accept at the bottom, and then it has access to your pictures, access to your location and you're free to hit that accept because you see the value in that application. >> It's a quid pro quo, you know it's interesting we had the author on yesterday, Pink, Daniel Pink? >> Jeff: Pink, Mr. Pink, yes. >> And he was pointing out, he said look there used to be that the brand used to have all the information, and now there's parody in information, but in many regards, this whole digitization is an attempt by the brand to provide, to use more data and to give the consumers more value, and to create differentiation in the marketplace, and that's kind of what you're describing in your business. Last question, what's on ServiceNow's to-do list? What do you want to see a year, year and a half in? >> Well, after we implemented, we partnered with ServiceNow in a project they call Inspire, and basically it's to, what are we going to do next? You know, that very question, how do we leverage now what we've implemented, and take advantage of what the platform has to offer? We see lots of opportunities, as a matter of fact our list is so long we just don't have the bandwidth to do it all (Jeff chuckling) and we have to prioritize, but we see a lot of integration points, we see a lot of APIs coming in, we are in a kind of a really big phase in automation right now, we're trying to automate as much as possible, so for our on prem technology, we really want to go into automated provisioning of our assets, which means being able to connect those into the CMDB as they're provisioned, all automatically, and we want to really shorten those cycle times for when we have to provision infrastructure and support our applications. So ServiceNow is setting us up to do just that. >> Inspire is a great program, it's one of the best freebies in the business, and it leads, it's a win win. The customer gets the best experts, they come in and obviously, the hope is they're going to buy more stuff from ServiceNow, and if the value's there you will. Why not? It's going to drive to the bottom line. >> Using cloud to provision on prem resources, I like that. (all laughing) >> Mike thanks very much for coming to theCUBE, it was really a pleasure having you. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> Jeff: Thanks for sharing the insight. >> Alright keep it right there buddy we'll be back with our next guest right after this short break, there's a CUBEr live from Knowledge, be right back. (techno music)