>> Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering IBM thing twenty nineteen brought to you by IBM. >> Hey, welcome back here when we're here. Live in San Francisco for IBM. Think twenty nineteen, two cubes Exclusive coverage. I'm over here, students to it's been four days. Were our fourth day powered through a lot of interviews. Obstructing the Civic Lanois number one live event covers a Cuba to great guests here. Ashutosh Mooney, vice president, Applications services with an IBM and carried to lose chief technology officer nationwide Building society in the UK Great to have you guys. Thank you, John, for applications. Big part of the focus because the applications air now dictating the data strategy. The II with a and you could cloud multi cloud underneath. So the chained, changing market requirements around what, after doing are super important? All this is a focus. It's dictating that the infrastructure what to do so that this is the key to the cloud. Talk about what you guys are doing. >> Absolutely, absolutely, in fact, not just for IBM. For clients, mostly for them to be able to ready for their customers, they need to make sure that their applications are up there for their customer experience as well. What we're seeing is most of these supper clients today are saying that all the work that they have done in past for the last five, ten years that's the core that they have been in there trying to look at how they can minimize the spend on that and maximize the spending a ll. The customer facing applications like to enhance the customer experience >> they call and you call that the workload? Oh, yes. Load is code for applications. Carry your customer of IBM. Let me explain what you guys do first. Then we can talk about some things you're working on, >> So we are a large, UK based mutual building society. We have about fifteen million members in the U. K. But you can think of us as a bank. In many respects, most people do. Challenge throws us, as you said, is basically we have thirty or forty years of legacy technology. We need to transform that technology and also bill the next generation digital services alongside that technology. So if Rose, it's the combination of how do we transform that legacy core whilst also building from you? >> And what are some of the use case is that the new technology going bring you because containers has been great with legacy because you don't kill the old to bring in the new. As you look at the modern modernization journey, you're on What is guiding principles? One things you guys are looking at, how you guys thinking that through? >> Okay, so a number of things. One is we've been on a thirty year journey towards looser and looser coupling on smaller and smaller micro services. So what you're starting to see is big applications, monolithic applications being broken down into services and the micro services. So for us, the key is the smaller and smaller micro services. The more agility we can create more value great. And that loose coupling them becomes really important because that then allows us to deliver a high level of parallelism in development in change. So those are two key areas. >> It has it going today. Good scar tissue. You learning its >> learning and its iterating and it's failing and its understanding. But the main thing is, you know, the more we do, the more we learn, the more we can then build that back into Nick's situation. >> Actually, I always love to hear, especially the financial services ones that have been around a while that that modernization and how they do that, I couldn't help but notice. You're both wearing the, you know, I heart a I the shirts. So if you connect the dots for us between that application modernization and the wave of a ay >> yeah. So I heard that Tom fail fast and fail regular. I mean, it's all good until you actually have atleast one success, right? Failing fast is good, but you cannot escape feeling. So where it comes into play is primarily making sure that you're basing your those decisions on what have been proven right in Pastor's. Well, so what we have seen, especially for financial services, is even though the system's off engagement has changed the fundamental principles on which the banking services all the insurance services operator has not changed. So you're still wearing the same set of services just in different ways. The expectation of the client has changed, but the services remain the same. So our ability to be ableto look at what we have been doing in past which services makes sense to be Microsoft's enabled us getting talked about. It's not that you just take all the functions and enable them. That's where we're able to bring value Tour Kari. What's the impact >> on this on your ultimate and user >> better value? So for us, it's about helping our members, who are customers, to make better financial decisions on. To do that, they need data. So what we're trying to do is to really take that Legacy estate, which is really about locking data into the course. Or we can use it trying to liberate that day to get it out into the hands of our members so they could make better decisions on a eyes were really keep part of >> you. I mean that that was what we think back to. That wave of big data was the I should be able to have smaller companies, you know, not take years and millions of dollars to be able to do that. Tell us what's different about, you know today in a I that that we might not have been able to do five years >> ago. There's a couple of things, really. So one is compute power. So what you're seeing really is eyes is not necessarily advancing massively in terms of the algorithms and the approaches in the methodologies. What you're seeing, though, is compute power in storage capacity growing at an exponential rate store. So what it's doing is enabling those algorithms to work in a way that they've never been able to do before. We're getting to value quicker because the time it takes to reach that value is much shorter. >> I want to get your perspective on you mentioned parallel breaking down, decoupling things with looser sets the services. This is certainly the cloud way make AP eyes have micro services. Big part of it. How is that going from a culture standpoint? Because this is one of the things we hear all the time is it's a cultural journey to one. Get people lined up with that. And then what if some of the business benefits that you see what this parallel isn't? His efficiency is an innovation. Where do you see that culture? What did What did you do to change the culture? Go. Cheers. Um, this is what people want to know about. >> So in fact, what we're seeing is a majority of the clients have started to look into this because everybody else was because somebody digital native out there was doing it, so they some of them actually last on too quickly. They have not been ableto change their internal culture within the organization when the customers were ready, but their internal organizations or not. But I think plants like Cup NBS have sought out a fairly good strategy, and it will be great to get if you can >> share with your secret sauce that you like Carrot Stick. They were gonna go this way or you burn the boats, as they say at the How did you get people to go in the right direction? >> For us? There's a really, really important related past this the culture of the people from a culture perspective. You know, we've got teams of people who have been doing phenomenal pieces of work for thirty forty years coming to the end of their career. And you know, the technology that we're using again, we're looking at and the service life. So how do we how do we get away from that world where we're constantly focusing on the legacy to start focusing on new technology? So it's bringing in new people with new ideas. It's changing the way we work, so we started to focus on things like our child. They've ops, automation, new ways of working to allow people to really sort of liberate away from the old ways of working and give them new ideas and new opportunities. That's part of that as well. There's a couple of things in there for us which is really important. So one is bringing new technologies in bringing new people in that Khun, use those technologies. We also have to make sure we keep our own people trained up as well, so we can't forget the people that we've got. So it's it's a set of different things, >> and training is critical. Was gonna open source out there. It's like, you know, every years like a dog here, and you gotta keep up to date, Keep learning >> and all these aspects of procreation, right? So you cannot do it in isolation if you're doing it together. I mean, whether use design, thinking or not right, that's it. That's it. That's the way to do it. But I think the aspect of co creating in your end stakeholders and your own stakeholders, Orin more >> talk about more about that, cause this is a big team co creation we love doing with content were in the Q. We're doing it here with constant when you get into development. This is a new psychological dynamic, but also it's a productivity opportunity. Can you share what you're seeing there? Explain co creation a litte bit deeper >> Look so that we talk hypothetically, right? So from hypothetical perspective, if we were able to look at organization or a flat form where were able to access an amount ofthe computational power computation skills are programming skills. Our ability to be able to do the most creative expects for any use case and industry would be enormous. We just don't have that. We're limited to specific parts that were working with the Limited with specific employees that we have Andrea limited to the customers that were kids, and I think if we expand, so while we don't have, uh, handle off all the things that we haven't played. But if you are able to bring in our customers or internal stakeholders as well as our partners that we're working with and are able to build a common team and one of those common themes could be that I need to get you those services quickly and then figure out how to three can actually work in tandem we'll be able to make. >> How does that change your engagement model? Because I might be the same in eight days there, Miss Captain. Well, we used to do that before we usedto partner and understand their needs Bring solutions to the marketplace. Is it more software driven? So what's changed from the old way to the new way? Because I don't agree with you, by the way, I'm not I'm not a skeptic, but, yeah, that was what skeptic might say. >> Yeah, no, I think earlier what was happening was they were It was more offering leg and what I mean by offering letters these of the sex I have. And let's make these assets find the solutions. So what people will do is they will say this is the banking solution I have in this specific case and let's figure out what fifteen things I can >> do without those solutions. >> Approach now is different. They approach now is This is what the customer is demanding and the reason they're demanding is because customers expectation is based on there most recent experience that they had somewhere else, not necessarily with the bank. They may have experience and over, so when they have experienced that experience there, they want the similar services from the bank. So now the co creation model is actually starting from the other side of the equation rather than coming from Essex out. That's >> so it's flipped. The old model was hears. We got here's what you could do, Your limited and now it's like is what we want to do >> This ice >> program the infrastructure and focus on software to find agile. This is seems to be the new way. >> Let me add to that as well, because I think one of the things that we've done over the last year is really focusing on what our technology strategy, how this technology going change. Our business we've done is created a strategy where our ambition actually exceeds our ability to execute. So from a co creation perspective, we actually need really good partners are going to work with us in that context on be strong challenges br critical friend in the process. >> So it's more efficient and more productive. You get best of both worlds and the outcomes are more aligned via agile. Got me more acute on target. Many pretty much that >> getting Carrie actually love to get your perspective on like, what does it mean to have a cloud strategy today? We heard this week. You know, Jenny said, We're, you know, entering chapter to of the clouds. We took care of the twenty percent that was a little bit easier. We're getting eighty harder. Lots of customers I talked to. It's It's changing all the time, and things like hybrid and multi Cloud don't really mean much to them. Got serious in your shop, how you think of things. >> Great question. I think it's changing, and it's different from industry to industry. So I'm banking. The challenge for us has always been regulation has been the regulators pushing back on public cloud and saying, You know, we were nervous about that. Have you manage the security of the controls around that? So a lot of banking is focused on private Cloud? Can we adopt the technology in those banking's those styles of technology delivery in the private cloud way? But we're now starting to see that there is this shift towards public cloud with the economic advantage that public cloud house on the innovation that's going on in public cloud. It's becoming really attractive. So the strategy for us is about how do we make that happen? How do we build that multi cloud model? And then how do we move that sort of hybrid model from private to public and get the advantages of the different styles of cloud computing? >> Guys, Thanks for coming on, Given the inside love, this Dev ops Co creation model and really applications air driving the requirements now with programmable infrastructure. This is changing. The procurement is changing. The culture hiring strategist is really disrupted. This is really the digital transformation. It's all about creating great shop. Thanks for coming on. We appreciate final question while we're here. Thoughts on think this year in San Francisco. Libit Rainy February. That's okay, but all tightly together. What's your thoughts? What's the themes? What's your What's the top story here? >> Getting your pops? >> Whether it makes me feel like >> home is fantastic. Eso No, it's been It's been an amazing week. >> Lots of innovation, Lots of great conversation. So I really enjoyed it. >> Yeah, No, absolutely. I think we've gone around myself, even though we are definitely aware of what's going on in here. But I think there have been lots of partner ecosystem that has been here, and I think that collaboration has been great. Thank you. >> It's been great. Show a lot of inside Kaspar perspective. Thanks for sharing what your journeys on and some specifics Way appreciates. A cube coverage. I'm shoppers to Minuteman. Stay with us for a day, for we're four days a coverage. We're here on day for Stay with us for more after this short break.