welcome back to the seaport in boston massachusetts with cities crazy with bruins and celtics talk but we're here we're talking red hat linux open shift ansible and ashesh badani is here he's the senior vice president and the head of products at red hat fresh off the keynotes had amex up in the state of great to see you face to face amazing that we're here now after two years of of the isolation economy welcome back thank you great to see you again as well and you as well paul yeah so no shortage of announcements uh from red hat this week paul wrote a piece on siliconangle.com i got my yellow highlights i've been through all the announcements which is your favorite baby hard for me to choose hard for me to choose um i'll talk about real nine right well nine's exciting um and in a weird way it's exciting because it's boring right because it's consistent three years ago we committed to releasing a major well uh every three years right so customers partners users can plan for it so we released the latest version of rel in between we've been delivering releases every six months as well minor releases a lot of capabilities that are bundled in around security automation edge management and then rel is also the foundation of the work we announced with gm with the in-vehicle operating system so you know that's extremely exciting news for us as well and the collaboration that we're doing with them and then a whole host of other announcements around you know cloud services work around devsecops and so on so yeah a lot of news a lot of announcements i would say rel nine and the work with gm probably you know comes right up to the top i wanted to get to one aspect of the rail 9 announcement that is the the rose centos streams in that development now in december i think it was red hat discontinued development or support for for centos and moved to central streams i'm still not clear what the difference is between the two can you clarify that i think we go into a situation especially with with many customers many partners as well that you know didn't sort of quite exactly uh get a sense of you know where centos was from a life cycle perspective so was it upstream to rel was it downstream to rel what's the life cycle for itself as well and then there became some sort of you know implied notions around what that looked like and so what we decided was to say well we'll make a really clean break and we'll say centos stream is the upstream for enterprise linux from day one itself partners uh you know software partners hardware partners can collaborate with us to develop rel and then take it all the way through life cycle right so now it becomes a true upstream a true place for development for us and then rel essentially comes uh out as a series of releases based on the work that we do in a fast-moving center-os environment but wasn't centos essentially that upstream uh development environment to begin with what's the difference between centos stream yeah it wasn't wasn't um it wasn't quite upstream it was actually a little bit downstream yeah it was kind of bi-directional yeah and yeah and so then you know that sort of became an implied life cycle to it when there really wasn't one but it was just became one because of some usage and adoption and so now this really clarifies the relationship between the two we've heard feedback for example from software partners users saying hey what do i do for development because i used you know centervis in the past we're like yup we have real for developers available we have rel for small teams available we have rel available for non-profit organizations up and so we've made rail now available in various form factors for the needs that folks had and they were perhaps using centos for because there was no such alternative or rel history so language so now it's this clarity so that's really the key point there so language matters a lot in the technology business we've seen it over the years the industry coalesces around you know terminology whether it was the pc era everything was pc this pc that the internet era and and certainly the cloud we we learned a lot of language from the likes of you know aws two pizza teams and working backwards and things like that became common commonplace hybrid and multi-cloud are kind of the the parlance of the day you guys use hybrid you and i have talked about this i feel like there's something new coming i don't think my term of super cloud is the right necessary terminology but it signifies something different and i feel like your announcements point to that within your hybrid umbrella point being so much talk about the edge and it's we heard paul cormier talk about new hardware architectures and you're seeing that at the edge you know what you're doing with the in-vehicle operating system these are new the cloud isn't just a a bunch of remote services in the cloud anymore it's on-prem it's a cloud it's cross-clouds it's now going out to the edge it's something new and different i think hybrid is your sort of term for that but it feels like it's transcending hybrid are your thoughts you know really really great question actually since you and i talked dave i've been spending some time you know sort of noodling just over that right and you're right right there's probably some terminology something sort of you know that will get developed you know either by us or you know in collaboration with the industry you know where we sort of almost have the connection almost like a meta cloud right that we're sort of working our way towards because there's if you will you know the cloud right so you know on premise you know virtualized uh bare metal by the way you know increasingly interesting and important you know we do a lot of work with nvidia folks want to run specific workloads there we announced support for arm right another now popular architecture especially as we go out to the edge so obviously there's private cloud public cloud then the edge becomes a continuum now you know on that process we actually have a major uh uh shipping company so uh a cruise lines that's talking about using openshift on cruise lines right so you know that's the edge right last year we had verizon talking about you know 5g and you know ran in the next generation there to then that's the edge when we talk to retail the store front's the edge right you talk to a bank you know the bank environments here so everyone's got a different kind of definition of edge we're working with them and then when we you know announce this collaboration with gm right now the edge there becomes the automobile so if you think of this as a continuum right you know bare metal private cloud public cloud take it out to the edge now we're sort of almost you know living in a world of you know a little bit of abstractions and making sure that we are focused on where uh data is being generated and then how can we help ensure that we're providing a consistent experience regardless of you know where meta meta cloud because i can work in nfts i can work a little bit we're going to get through this whole thing without saying metaverse i was hoping i do want to ask you about about the edge and the proliferation of hardware platforms paul comey mentioned this during the keynote today hardware is becoming important yeah there's a lot of people building hardware it's in development now for areas like uh like intelligent devices and ai how does this influence your development priorities you have all these different platforms that you need to support yeah so um we think about that a lot mostly because we have engagements with so many partners hardware right so obviously there's more traditional partners i'd say like the dell and the hpes that we work with we've historically worked with them also working with them in in newer areas uh with regard to appliances that are being developed um and then the work that we do with partners like nvidia or new architectures like arm and so our perspective is this will be uh use case driven more than anything else right so there are certain environments right where you have arm-based devices other environments where you've got specific workloads that can take advantage of being built on gpus that we'll see increasingly being used especially to address that problem and then provide a solution towards that so our belief has always been look we're going to give you a consistent platform a consistent abstraction across all these you know pieces of hardware um and so you mr miss customer make the best choice for yourself a couple other areas we have to hit on i want to talk about cloud services we've got to talk about security leave time to get there but why the push to cloud services what's driving that it's actually customers they're driving right so we have um customers consistently been asking us say you know love what you give us right want to make sure that's available to us when we consume in the cloud so we've made rel available for example on demand right you can consume this directly via public cloud consoles we are now making available via marketplaces uh talked about ansible available as a managed service on azure openshift of course available as a managed service in multiple clouds um all of this also is because you know we've got customers who've got these uh committed spends that they have you know with cloud providers they want to make sure that the environments that they're using are also counting towards that at the same time give them flexibility give them the choice right if in certain situations they want to run in the data center great we have that solution for them other cases they want to procure from the cloud and run it there we're happy to support them there as well let's talk about security because you have a lot of announcements like security everywhere yeah um and then some specific announcements as well i i always think about these days in the context of the solar wind supply chain hack would this have you know how would this have affected it but tell us about what's going on in security your philosophy there and the announcements that you guys made so our secure announcements actually span our entire portfolio yeah right and and that's not an accident right that's by design because you know we've really uh been thinking and emphasizing you know how we ensure that security profile is raised for users both from a malicious perspective and also helping accidental issues right so so both matters so one huge amounts of open source software you know out of the world you know and then estimates are you know one in ten right has some kind of security vulnerability um in place a massive amount of change in where software is being developed right so rate of change for example in kubernetes is dramatic right much more than even than linux right entire parts of kubernetes get rewritten over over a three-year period of time so as you introduce all that right being able to think for example about you know what's known as shift left security or devsec ops right how do we make sure we move security closer to where development is actually done how do we ensure we give you a pattern so you know we introduced a software supply chain pattern uh via openshift delivers complete stack of code that you know you can go off and run that follows best practices uh including for example for developers you know with git ops and support on the pipelines front a whole bunch of security capabilities in rel um a new image integrity measurement architecture which allows for a better ability to see in a post install environment what the integrity of the packages are signing technology they're incorporating open shift as well as an ansible so it's it's a long long list of cables and features and then also more and more defaults that we're putting in place that make it easier for example for someone not to hurt themselves accidentally on security front i noticed that uh this today's batch of announcements included support within openshift pipelines for sigstor which is an open source project that was birthed actually at red hat right uh we haven't heard a whole lot about it how important is zig store to to you know your future product direction yeah so look i i think of that you know as you know work that's you know being done out of our cto's office and obviously security is a big focus area for them um six store's great example of saying look how can we verify content that's in uh containers make sure it's you know digitally signed that's appropriate uh to be deployed across a bunch of environments but that thinking isn't maybe unique uh for us uh in the container side mostly because we have you know two decades or more of thinking about that on the rel side and so fundamentally containers are being built on linux right so a lot of the lessons that we've learned a lot of the expertise that we've built over the years in linux now we're starting to you know use that same expertise trying to apply it to containers and i'm my guess is increasingly we're going to see more of the need for that you know into the edge as well i i i picked up on that too let me ask a follow-up question on sigstor so if i'm a developer and i and i use that capability it it ensures the provenance of that code is it immutable the the signature uh and the reason i ask is because again i think of everything in the context of the solar winds where they were putting code into the the supply chain and then removing it to see what happened and see how people reacted and it's just a really scary environment yeah the hardest part you know in in these environments is actually the behavior change so what's an example of that um packages built verified you know by red hat when it went from red hat to the actual user have we been able to make sure we verify the integrity of all of those when they were put into use um and unless we have behavior that you know make sure that we do that then we find ourselves in trouble in the earliest days of open shift uh we used to get knocked a lot by by developers because i said hey this platform's really hard to use we investigate hey look why is that happening so by default we didn't allow for root access you know and so someone's using you know the openshift platform they're like oh my gosh i can't use it right i'm so used to having root access we're like no that's actually sealed by default because that's not a good security best practice now over a period of time when we you know randomly enough times explained that enough times now behavior changes like yeah that makes sense now right so even just kind of you know there's behaviors the more that we can do for example in in you know the shift left which is one of the reasons by the way why we bought uh sac rocks a year right right for declarative security contain native security so threat detection network segmentation uh watching intrusions you know malicious behavior is something that now we can you know essentially make native into uh development itself all right escape key talk futures a little bit so i went downstairs to the expert you know asked the experts and there was this awesome demo i don't know if you've seen it of um it's like a design thinking booth with what happened how you build an application i think they were using the who one of their apps um during covet and it's you know shows the the granularity of the the stack and the development pipeline and all the steps that have to take place and it strikes me of something we've talked about so you've got this application development stack if you will and the database is there to support that and then over here you've got this analytics stack and it's separate and we always talk about injecting more ai into apps more data into apps but there's separate stacks do you see a day where those two stacks can come together and if not how do we inject more data and ai into apps what are your thoughts on that so great that's another area we've talked about dave in the past right um so we definitely agree with that right and and what final shape it takes you know i think we've got some ideas around that what we started doing is starting to pick up specific areas where we can start saying let's go and see what kind of usage we get from customers around it so for example we have openshift data science which is basically a way for us to talk about ml ops right and you know how can we have a platform that allows for different models that you can use we can uh test and train data different frameworks that you can then deploy in an environment of your choice right and we run that uh for you up and assist you in in uh making sure that you're able to take the next steps you want with with your machine learning algorithms um there's work that we've uh introduced at summit around databases service so essentially our uh a cloud service that allows for deep as an easy way for customers to access either mongodb or or cockroach in a cloud native fashion and all of these things that we're sort of you know experimenting with is to be able to say look how do we sort of bring the world's closer together right off database of data of analytics with a core platform and a core stack because again right this will become part of you know one continuum that we're going to work with it's not i'd like your continuum that's that's i think really instructive it's not a technical barrier is what i'm hearing it's maybe organizational mindset i can i should be able to insert a column into my my my application you know development pipeline and insert the data i mean kafka tensorflow in there there's no technical reason i can't can't do that it's just we've created these sort of separate stovepipe organizations 100 right right so they're different teams right you've got the platform team or the ops team and you're a separate dev team there's a separate data team there's a separate storage team and each of them will work you know slightly differently independently right so the question then is i mean that's sort of how devops came along then you're like oh wait a minute yeah don't forget security and now we're at devsecops right so the more of that that we can kind of bring together i think the more convergence that we'll see when i think about the in-vehicle os i see the the that is a great use case for real-time ai inferencing streaming data i wanted to ask you that about that real quickly because at the very you know just before the conference began we got an announcement about gm but your partnership with gm it seems like this came together very quickly why is it so important for red hat this is a whole new category of application that you're going to be working on yeah so we've been working with gm not publicly for a while now um and it was very clear that look you know gm believes this is the future right you know electric vehicles into autonomous driving and we're very keen to say we believe that a lot of attributes that we've got in rel that we can bring to bear in a different form factor to assist with the different needs that exist in this industry so one it's interesting for us because we believe that's a use case that you know we can add value to um but it's also the future of automotive right so the opportunity to be able to say look we can get open source technology we can collaborate out with the community to fundamentally help transform that industry uh towards where it wants to go you know that that's just the passion that we have that you know is what wakes us up every morning you're opening into that yeah thank you for coming on the cube really appreciate your time and your insights and uh have a great rest of rest of the event thank you for having me metacloud it's a thing it's a thing right it's it's it's kind of there we're gonna we're gonna see it emerge over the next decade all right you're watching the cube's coverage of red hat summit 2022 from boston keep it right there be right back you

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Mobile World Congress is alive, theCUBE will be there and we'll certainly let you know if it's alive and well when we get on the ground. Now, as we approach a delayed mobile world congress, it's really appropriate to reflect in the state of the telecoms industry. Let's face it. Telcos have done of really good job of keeping us all connected during the pandemic, supporting work from home and that whole pivot, accommodating the rapid shift to landline traffic, securing the network and keeping it up and running but it doesn't change the underlying fundamental dilemma that Telco has faced. Telco is a slow growth, no growth industry, with revenue expectations in the low single digits. And at the same time network traffic continues to grow at 20% annually. And last year it grew at 40% to 50%. Despite these challenges, Telcos are still investing in the future. For example, the Telco industry collectively is selling out more than a trillion dollars in the first half of this decade on 5G and fiber infrastructure. And it's estimated that there are now more than 200 5G networks worldwide. But a lot of questions remain, not the least of which is, can and should Telcos go beyond connectivity and fiber. Can the Telcos actually monetize 5G or whatever's next beyond 5G? Or is that going to be left to the ecosystem? Now what about the ecosystem? How is that evolving? And very importantly, what role will the Cloud Hyperscalers play in Telco? Are they infrastructure on which the Telcos can build or are they going to suck the value out of the market as they have done in the enterprise? Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's Wiki Bond Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, it's my pleasure to welcome a long time telecoms industry analyst and colleague, and the founding director of Lewis Insight, Mr. Chris Lewis. Chris, welcome to the program. Thanks for coming on >> Dave, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. >> It is really our pleasure. So, we're going to cover a lot of ground today. And first thing, we're going to talk about Mobile World Congress. I've never been, you're an expert at that and what we can expect. And then we're going to review the current state of telecoms infrastructure, where it should go. We're going to dig into transformation. Is it a mandate? Is it aspirational? Can Telcos enter adjacent markets in ways they haven't been able to in the past? And then how about the ecosystem? We're going to talk about that, and then obviously we're going to talk about Cloud as I said, and we'll riff a little bit on the tech landscape. So Chris, let's get into it, Mobile World Congress, it's back on, what's Mobile World Congress typically like? What's your expectation this year for the vibe compared to previous events? >> Well Dave, the issue of Mobile World Congress is always that we go down there for a week into Barcelona. We stress ourselves building a matrix of meetings in 30 minutes slots and we return at the end of it trying to remember what we'd been told all the way through. The great thing is that with the last time we had a live, with around 110,000 people there, you could see anyone and everyone you needed to within the mobile, and increasingly the adjacent industry and ecosystem. So, he gave you that once a year, big download of everything new, obviously because it's the Mobile World Congress, a lot of it around devices, but increasingly over the last few years, we saw many, many stands with cars on them because the connected car became an issue, a lot more software oriented players there, but always the Telcos, always the people providing the network infrastructure. Increasingly in the last few years people provided the software and IT infrastructure, but all of these people contributing to what the network should be in the future, what needs to be connected. But of course the reach of the network has been growing. You mentioned during lockdown about connecting people in their homes, well, of course we've also been extending that connection to connect things whether it's in the home or the different devices, monitoring of doorbells and lights and all that sort of stuff. And in the industry environment, connecting all of the robots and sensors. So, actually the perimeter, the remit of the industry to connect has been expanding, and so is the sort of remit of Mobile World Congress. So, we set an awful lot of different suppliers coming in, trying to attach to this enormous market of roughly $1.5 trillion globally. >> Chris, what's the buzz in the industry in terms of who's going to show up. I know a lot of people have pulled out, I've got the Mobile World Congress app and I can see who's attending. And it looks like quite a few people are going to go but what's your expectation? >> Well, from an analyst point of view, obviously I'm mainly keeping up with my clients and trying to get new clients. I'm looking at it and going most of my clients are not attending in person. Now, of course, we need the DSMA, we need Mobile World Congress for future for the industry interaction. But of course, like many people having adopted and adapted to be online, then they're putting a lot of the keynotes online, a lot of the activities will be online. But of course many of the vendors have also produced their independent content and content to actually deliver to us as analysts. So, I'm not sure who will be there. I like you, but you'll be on the ground. You'll be able to report back and let us know exactly who turned up. But from my point of view, I've had so many pre-briefs already, the difference between this year and previous years, I used to get loads of pre-briefs and then have to go do the briefs as well. So this year I've got the pre-brief so I can sit back, put my feet up and wait for your report to come back as to what's happening on the ground. >> You got it. Okay, let's get into a little bit and talk about Telco infrastructure and the state, where it is today, where it's going, Chris, how would you describe the current state of Telco infrastructure? Where does it need to go? Like, what is the ideal future state look like for Telcos in your view? >> So there's always a bit of an identity crisis when it comes to Telco. I think going forward, the connectivity piece was seen as being table stakes, and then people thought where can we go beyond connectivity? And we'll come back to that later. But actually to the connectivity under the scenario I just described of people, buildings, things, and society, we've got to do a lot more work to make that connectivity extend, to be more reliable, to be more secure. So, the state of the network is that we have been building out infrastructure, which includes fiber to connect households and businesses. It includes that next move to cellular from 4G to 5G. It obviously includes Wi-Fi, wherever we've got that as well. And actually it's been a pretty good state, as you said in your opening comments they've done a pretty good job keeping us all connected during the pandemic, whether we're a fixed centric market like the UK with a lot of mobile on top and like the US, or in many markets in Africa and Asia, where we're very mobile centric. So, the fact is that every country market is different, so we should never make too many assumptions at a very top level, but building out that network, building out the services, focusing on that connectivity and making sure we get that cost of delivery right, because competition is pushing us towards having and not ever increasing prices, because we don't want to pay a lot extra every time. But the big issue for me is how do we bring together the IT and the network parts of this story to make sure that we build that efficiency in, and that brings in many questions that we going to touch upon now around Cloud and Hyperscalers around who plays in the ecosystem. >> Well, as you know, Telco is not my wheelhouse, but hanging around with you, I've learned, you've talked a lot about the infrastructure being fit for purpose. It's easy from an IT perspective. Oh yeah, it's fossilized, it's hardened, and it's not really flexible, but the flip side of that coin is as you're pointing out, it's super reliable. So, the big talk today is, "Okay, we're going to open up the network, open systems, and Open RAN, and open everything and microservices and containers. And so, the question is this, can you mimic that historical reliability in that open platform? >> Well, for me, this is the big trade-off and in my great Telco debate every year, I always try and put people against each other to try and to literally debate the future. And one of the things we looked at was is a more open network against this desire of the Telcos to actually have a smaller supplier roster. And of course, as a major corporation, these are on a national basis, very large companies, not large compared to the Hyperscalers for example, but they're large organizations, and they're trying to slim down their organization, slim down the supplier ecosystem. So actually in some ways, the more open it becomes, the more someone's got to manage and integrate all those pieces together. And that isn't something we want to do necessarily. So, I see a real tension there between giving more and more to the traditional suppliers. The Nokia's, Ericsson's, Huawei's, Amdocs and so on, the Ciscos. And then the people coming in breaking new ground like Mavenir and come in, and the sort of approach that Rakuten and Curve taken in bringing in more open and more malleable pieces of smaller software. So yeah, it's a real challenge. And I think as an industry which is notorious for being slow moving, actually we've begun to move relatively quickly, but not necessarily all the way through the organization. We've got plenty of stuff sitting on major or mainframes still in the back of the organization. But of course, as mobile has come in, we've started to deal much more closely, uninteractively in real time, God forbid, with the customers. So actually, at that front end, we've had to do things a lot more quickly. And that's where we're seeing the quickest adaptation to what you might see in your IT environment as being much more, continuous development, continuous improvement, and that sort of on demand delivery. >> Yeah, and we're going to get to that sort of in the Cloud space, but I want to now touch on Telco transformation which is sort of the main theme of this episode. And there's a lot of discussion on this topic, can Telcos move beyond connectivity and managing fiber? Is this a mandate? Is it a pipe dream that's just aspirational? Can they attack adjacencies to grow beyond the 1% a year? I mean, they haven't been successful historically. What are those adjacencies that might be, an opportunity and how will that ecosystem develop? >> Sure. >> So Chris, can and should Telcos try to move beyond core connectivity? Let's start there. >> I like what you did there by saying pipe dreams. Normally, pipe is a is a negative comment in the telecom world. But pipe dream gives it a real positive feel. So can they move beyond connectivity? Well, first of all, connectivity is growing in terms of the number of things being connected. So, in that sense, the market is growing. What we pay for that connectivity is not necessarily growing. So, therefore the mandate is absolutely to transform the inner workings and reduce the cost of delivery. So, that's the internal perspective. The external perspective is that we've tried in many Telcos around the world to break into those adjacent markets, being around media, being enterprise, being around IOT, and actually for the most part they've failed. And we've seen some very significant recent announcements from AT&T, Verizon, BT, beginning to move away from, owning content and not delivering content, but owning content. And the same as they've struggled often in the enterprise market to really get into that, because it's a well-established channel of delivery bringing all those ecosystem players in. So, actually rather than the old Telco view of we going to move into adjacent markets and control those markets, actually moving into them and enabling fellow ecosystem players to deliver the service is what I think we're beginning to see a lot more of now. And that's the big change, it's actually learning to play with the other people in the ecosystem. I always use a phrase that there's no room for egos in the ecosystem. And I think Telcos went in initially with an ego thinking we're really important, we are on connectivity. But actually now they're beginning to approach the ecosystem things saying, "How can we support partners? How can we support everyone in this ecosystem to deliver the services to consumers, businesses and whomever in this evolving ecosystem?" So, there are opportunities out there, plenty of them, but of course, like any opportunity, you've got to approach it in the right way. You've got to get the right investment in place. You've got to approach it with the right open API so everyone can integrate with your approach, and approach it, do I say with a little bit of humility to say, "Hey, we can bring this to the table, how do we work together? >> Well, it's an enormous market. I think you've shared with me, it's like 1.4 trillion. And I want to stay on these adjacencies for a minute, because one of the obvious things that Telcos will talk about is managed services. And I know we have to be careful of that term in an IT context, that it's different in a, you're talking about managing connectivity, but there's professional services. That's a logical sort of extension of their business and probably a safe adjacency, maybe not even adjacency, but they're not going to get into devices. I mean, they'll resell devices, but they're not going to be, I would presume not go back to trying to make devices, but there's certainly the edge and that's so, it'll define in opaque, but it's huge. If there's 5G, there's the IT component and that's probably a partnership opportunity. And as you pointed out, there's the ecosystem, but I wonder, how do you think about 5G as an adjacency or indoor opportunity? Is it a revenue opportunity for Telcos or is that just something that is really aspirational? >> Oh, absolutely it's a revenue opportunity, but I prefer to think of 5G as being a sort of a metaphor for the whole future of telecom. So, we usually talk, and MWC would normally talk about 5G just as a mobile solution. Of course, what you can get with, you can use this fixed wireless access approach, where the roots that sits in your house or your building. So, it's a potential replacement for some fixed lines. And of course, it's also, gives you the ability to build out, let's say in a manufacturing or a campus environment, a private 5G network. So, many of the early opportunities we're seeing with 5G are actually in that more private network environment addressing those very low latency, and high bandwidth requirements. So yeah, there are plenty of opportunities. Of course, the question here is, is connectivity enough, or especially with your comment around the edge, at the edge we need to manage connectivity, storage, compute, analytics, and of course the applications. So, that's a blend of players. It's not going to be in the hands of one player. So yes, plenty of opportunities but understanding what comes the other way from the customer base, where that's, you and I in our homes or outward as an about, or from a business point of view, an office or a campus environment, that's what should be driving, and not the technology itself. And I think this is the trap that the industry has fallen into many times, is we've got a great new wave of technology coming, how can we possibly deliver it to everybody rather than listening to what the customers really require and delivering it in a way consumable by all those different markets. >> Yeah now, of course all of these topics blend together. We try to keep them separately, but we're going to talk about Cloud, we're going to talk about competition, But one of the areas that we don't have a specific agenda item on is, is data and AI. And of course there's all this data flowing through the network, so presumably it's an opportunity for the Telcos. At the same time, they're not considered AI experts. They do when you talk about Edge, they would appear to have the latency advantage because of the last mile and their proximity, to various end points. But the Cloud is sort of building out as well. How do you think about data and AI as an opportunity for Telco? >> I think the whole data and AI piece for me sits on top of the cake or pie, whatever you want to call it. What we're doing with all this connectivity, what we're doing with all these moving parts and gathering information around it, and building automation into the delivery of the service, and using the analytics, whether you call it ML or AI, it doesn't really matter. But actually using that information to deliver a better service, a better outcome. Now, of course, Telcos have had much of this data for years and years, for decades, but they've never used it. So, I think what's happening is, the Cloud players are beginning to educate many of the Telcos around how valuable this stuff is. And that then brings in that question of how do we partner with people using open APIs to leverage that data. Now, do the Telcos keep hold of all that data? Do they let the Cloud players do all of it? No, it's going to be a combination depending on particular environments, and of course the people owning their devices also have a vested interest in this as well. So, you've always got to look at it end to end and where the data flows are, and where we can analyze it. But I agree that analysis on the device at the Edge, and perhaps less and less going back to the core, which is of course the original sort of mandate of the Cloud. >> Well, we certainly think that most of the Edge is going to be about AI inferencing, and then most of the data is going to stay at the edge. Some will come back for sure. And that is big opportunity for whether you're selling compute or conductivity, or maybe storage as well, but certainly insights at the Edge. >> Everything. >> Yeah. >> Everything, yeah. >> Let's get into the Cloud discussion and talk about the Hyperscalers, the big Hyperscaler elephant in the room. We're going to try to dig into what role the Cloud will play in the transformation of telecoms on Telecom TV at the great Telco debate. You likened the Hyperscalers, Chris, to Dementors from Harry Potter hovering over the industry. So, the question is, are the Cloud players going to suck the value out of the Telcos? Or are they more like Dobby the elf? They're powerful, there's sometimes friendly but they're unpredictable. >> Thank you for extending that analogy. Yes, it got a lot of reaction when I use that, but I think it indicates some of the direction of power shift where, we've got to remember here that Telcos are fundamentally national, and they're restricted by regulation, and the Cloud players are global, perhaps not as global as they'd like be, but some regional restrictions, but the global players, the Hyperscalers, they will use that power and they they will extend their reach, and they are extending their reach. If you think they now command some fantastic global networks, in some ways they've replaced some of the Telco international networks, all the submarine investments that tend to be done primarily for the Hyperscalers. So, they're building that out. So, as soon as you get onto their network, then you suddenly become part of that environment. And that is reducing some of the spend on the longer distances we might have got in the past approaches from the Telcos. Now, does that mean they're going to go all the way down and take over the Telcos? I don't believe so, because it's a fundamentally different business digging fiber in people's streets and delivering to the buildings, and putting antennas up. So, they will be a coexistence. And in fact, what we've already seen with Cloud and the Hyperscalers is that they're working much more close together than people might imagine. Now, you mentioned about data in the previous question, Google probably the best known of the of the AI and ML delivers from the Cloud side, working with many of the Telcos, even in some cases to actually have all the data outsourced into the Google Cloud for analytics purposes. They've got the power, the heavy lifting to do that. And so, we begin to see that, and obviously with shifting of workloads as appropriate within the Telco networking environment, we're seeing that with AWS, and of course with Azure as well. And Azure of course acquired a couple of companies in affirmed and Metro switch, which actually do some of the formal 5G core and the likes there within the connectivity environment. So, it's not clean cuts. And to go back to the analogy, those Dementors are swooping around and looking for opportunities, and we know that they will pick up opportunities, and they will extend their reach as far as they can down to that edge. But of course, the edge is where, as you rightly say, the Telcos have the control, they don't necessarily own the customer. I don't believe anyone owns the customer in this digital environment, because digital allows you to move your allegiance and your custom elsewhere anyway. So, but they do own that access piece, and that's what's important from a national point of view, from an economic point of view. And that's why we've seen some of the geopolitical activity banning Huawei from certain markets, encouraging more innovation through open ecosystem plays. And so, there is a tension there between the local Telco, the local market and the Hyperscaler market, but fundamentally they've got an absolute brilliant way of working together using the best of both worlds to deliver the services that we need as an economy. >> Well, and we've talked about this you and I in the past where the Telcos, portions of the Telco network could move into the Cloud. And there of course the Telcos all run the big data centers, and portions of that IT infrastructure could move into the Cloud. But it's very clear, they're not going to give up the entire family jewels to the Cloud players. Why would they? But there are portions of their IT that they could move into. Particularly, in the front end, they want to build like everybody. They want to build an abstraction layer. They're not going to move their core systems and their backend Oracle databases, they're going to put a brick wall around those, but they wanted abstraction layer, and they want to take advantage of microservices and use that data from those transaction systems. But the web front end stuff makes sense to put into Cloud. So, how do you think about that? >> I think you've hit the nail on the head. So you can't move those big backend systems straight away, gradually over time, you will, but you've got to go for those easy wins. And certainly in the research I've been doing with many of my clients, they're suggested that front end piece, making sure that you can onboard customers more easily, you can get the right mix of services. You can provide the omnichannel interaction from that customer experience that everybody talks about, for which the industry is not very well known at all by the way. So, any improvement on that is going to be good from an MPS point of view. So yeah, leveraging what we might, what we call BSS OSS in the telecom world, and actually putting that into the Cloud, leveraging both the Hyperscalers, but also by the way, many of the traditional players who people think haven't moved Cloud wards, but they are moving Cloud wards and they're embracing microservices and Cloud native. So, what you would have seen if we'd been in person down in Barcelona next week, would be a lot of the vendors who perhaps traditionally seems a bit slow moving, actually have done a lot of work to move their portfolio into the Cloud and into Cloud native environments. And yes, as you say, we can use that front end, we can use the API openness that's developed by people at the TM forum, to actually make sure we don't have to do the backend straight away, do it over time. Because of course the thing that we're not touching upon here, is the revenue stream is a consistent revenue stream. So, just because you don't need to change the backend to keep your revenue stream going, this is on a new, it keeps delivering every month, we keep paying our 50, 40, whatever bucks a month into the Telco pot. That's why it's such a big market, and people aren't going to stop doing that. So, I think the dynamics of the industry, we often spend a lot of time thinking about the inner workings of it and the potential of adjacent markets, whereas actually, we keep paying for this stuff, we keep pushing revenue into the pockets of all the Telcos. So, it's not a bad industry to be in, even if they were just pushed back to be in the access market, it's a great business. We need it more and more. The elasticity of demand is very inelastic, we need it. >> Yeah, it's the mother of old golden geese. We don't have a separate topic on security, and I want to touch on security here, is such an important topic. And it's top of mind obviously for everybody, Telcos, Hyperscalers, the Hyperscalers have this shared responsibility model, you know it well. A lot of times it's really confusing for customers. They don't realize it until there has been a problem. The Telcos are going to be very much tuned into this. How will all this openness, and we're going to talk about technology in a moment, but how will this transformation in your view, in the Cloud, with the shared responsibility model, how will that affect the whole security posture? >> Security is a great subject, and I do not specialize in it. I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I would say security for me is a bit like AI and analytics. It's everywhere. It's part of everything. And therefore you cannot think of it as a separate add on issue. So, every aspect, every element, every service you build into your micro services environment has to think about how do you secure that connection, that transaction, how do you secure the customer's data? Obviously, sovereignty plays a role in that as well in terms of where it sits, but at every level of every connection, every hop that we look through, every route to jump, we've got to see that security is built in. And in some ways, it's seen as being a separate part of the industry, but actually, as we collapse parts of the network down, we're talking about bringing optical and rooting together in many environments, security should be talked about in the same breath. So when I talked about Edge, when I talked about connectivity, storage, compute, analytics, I should've said security as well, because I absolutely believe that is fundamental to every chain in the link and let's face it, we've got a lot of links in the chain. >> Yeah, 100%. Okay, let's hit on technologies and competition, we kind of blend those together. What technology should we be paying attention to that are going to accelerate this transformation. We hear a lot about 5G, Open RAN. There's a lot of new tech coming in. What are you watching? Who are the players that we maybe should be paying attention to, some that you really like, that are well positioned? >> We've touched upon it in various of the questions that have proceeded this. So, the sort of Cloudification of the networking environment is obviously really important. The automation of the process we've got to move away from bureaucratic manual processes within these large organizations, because we've got to be more efficient, we've got to be more reliable. So, anything which is related to automation. And then the Open RAN question is really interesting. Once again, you raised this topic of when you go down an Open RAN routes or any open route, it ultimately requires more integration. You've got more moving parts from more suppliers. So, therefore there are potential security issues there, depending on how it's defined, but everybody is entering the Open RAN market. There are some names that you will see regularly next week, being pushed, I'm not going to push them anymore, because some of them just attract the oxygen of attention. But there are plenty out there. The good news is, the key vendors who come from the more traditional side are also absolutely embracing that and accept the openness. But I think the piece which probably excites me more, apart from the whole shift towards Cloud and microservices, is the coming together, the openness between the IT environment and the networking environment. And you see it, for example, in the Open RAN, this thing called the RIC, the RAN Interconnection Controller. We're actually, we're beginning to find people come from the IT side able to control elements within the wireless controller piece. Now that that starts to say to me, we're getting a real handle on it, anybody can manage it. So, more specialization is required, but understanding how the end to end flow works. What we will see of course is announcements about new devices, the big guys like Apple and Samsung do their own thing during the year, and don't interrupt their beat with it with MWC, but you'll see a lot of devices being pushed by many other providers, and you'll see many players trying to break into the different elements of the market. But I think mostly, you'll see the people approaching it from more and more Cloudified angle where things are much more leveraging, that Cloud capability and not relying on the sort of rigid and stodgy infrastructure that we've seen in the past >> Which is kind of interesting because Cloud, a lot of the Clouds are Walled Gardens, at the same time they host a lot of open technologies, and I think as these two worlds collide, IT and the Telco industry, it's going to be interesting to see how the Telco developer ecosystem evolves. And so, that's something that we definitely want to watch. You've got a comment there? >> Yeah, I think the Telco developer they've not traditionally been very big in that area at all, have they? They've had their traditional, if you go back to when you and I were kids, the plain old telephone service was a, they were a one trick pony, and they've moved onto that. In some ways, I'd like them to move on and to have the one trick of plain old broadband that we just get broadband delivered everywhere. So, there are some issues about delivering service to all parts of every country, and obviously the globe, whether we do that through satellite, we might see some interesting satellite stuff coming out during NWC. There's an awful lot of birds flying up there trying to deliver signal back to the ground. Traditionally, that's not been very well received, with the change in generation of satellite might help do that. But we've known traditionally that a lot of developer activity in there, what it does bring to the four though, Dave, is this issue of players like the Ciscos and Junipers, and all these guys of the world who bring a developer community to the table as well. This is where the ecosystem play comes in, because that's where you get the innovation in the application world, working with channels, working with individual applications. And so it's opening up, it's basically building a massive fabric that anybody can tap into, and that's what becomes so exciting. So, the barriers to entry come down, but I think it will see us settling down, a stabilization of relationship between the Telcos and the Hyperscalers, because they need each other as we talked about previously, then the major providers, the Ciscos, Nokias, Ericssons, Huawei's, the way they interact with the Telcos. And then allowing that level of innovation coming in from the smaller players, whether it's on a national or a global basis. So, it's actually a really exciting environment. >> So I want to continue that theme and just talk about Telco in the enterprise. And Chris, on this topic, I want to just touch on some things and bring in some survey data from ETR, Enterprise Technology Research, our partner. And of course the Telcos, they've got lots of data centers. And as we talked about, they're going to be moving certain portions into the Cloud, lots of the front end pieces in particular, but let's look at the momentum of some of the IT players within the ETR dataset, and look at how they compare to some of the Telcos that ETR captures specifically within the Telco industry. So, we filtered this data on the Telco industry. So, this is our X, Y graph that we show you oftentimes on the vertical axis, is net score which measures spending momentum, and in the horizontal axis is market share, which is a measure of pervasiveness in the dataset. Now, this data is for shared accounts just in the Telco sector. So we filtered on certain sectors, like within the technology sectors, Cloud, networking, and so it's narrow, it's a narrow slice of the 1500. It respondents, it represents about 133 shared accounts. And a couple of things to jump right out. Within the Telco industry, it's no surprise, but Azure and AWS have massive presence on the horizontal axis, but what's notable as they score very highly in the vertical axis, with elevated spending velocity on their platforms within Telco. Google Cloud doesn't have as much of a presence, but it's elevated as well. Chris was talking about their data posture before, Arista and Verizon, along with VMware are also elevated, as is Aruba, which is HPEs networking division, but they don't have the presence on the horizontal axis. And you got Red Hat OpenStack is actually quite prominent in Telco as we've reported in previous segments. Is no surprise You see Akamai there. Now remember, this survey is weighted toward enterprise IT, so you have to take that into consideration, but look at Cisco, very strong presence, nicely elevated as is Equinox, both higher than many of the others including Dell, but you could see Dell actually has pretty respectable spending in Telco. It's an area that they're starting to focus on more. And then you got that cluster below, your Juniper, AT&T, Oracle, the rest of HPE TELUM and Lumen which is formerly, century link via IBM. Now again, I'm going to caution you. This is an enterprise IT heavy survey, but the big takeaway is the Cloud players have a major presence inside of firms that say they're in the telecommunications industry. And certain IT players like Cisco, VMware and Red Hat appear to be well positioned inside these accounts. So Chris, I'm not sure if any of this commentary resonates with you, but it seems that the Telcos would love to partner up with traditional IT vendors and Cloud players, and maybe find ways to grow their respective businesses. >> I think some of the data points you brought out there are very important. So yes, we've seen a Microsoft Azure and AWS very strong working with Telcos. We've seen Google Cloud platform actually really aggressively pushed into the market certainly the last 12, 24 months. So yeah, they're well positioned, and they all come from a slightly different background. As I said, the Google with this, perhaps more data centric approach in its analytics, tools very useful, AWS with this outpost reaching out, connecting out, and as you'll, with its knowledge of the the Microsoft business market certainly pushing into private networks as well, by the way. So yeah, and Cisco, of course in there does have, and it's a mass scale division, a lot of activity there, some of the people collapsing, some of that rooting an obstacle together, their big push on Silicon. So, what you've got here is a sort of cross representation of many of the different sorts of suppliers who are active in this market. Now Telcos is a big spenders, the telecom market, as we said, a $1.4 trillion market, they spend a lot, they probably have to double bubble spend at the moment to get over the hump of 5G investment, to build out fiber where they need to build out. So, any anything that relates to that is of course a major spending opportunity, a major market opportunity for players. And we know when you need the infrastructure behind it, whether it's in data centers or in their own data centers or in the Cloud to deliver against it. So, what I do like about this as an analyst, a lot of people would focus on one particular piece of the market. So you specialize on handsets, people specialize on home markets and home gateways. So, I tend to sit back and try and look at the big picture, the whole picture. And I think we're beginning to see some very good momentum where people are, where companies are building upon, of course their core business within the telecom industry, extending it out. But the lines of demarcation are blurring between enterprise, Telco, and indeed moving down into small business. And you think about the SD-WAN Market, which came from nowhere to build a much more flexible solution for connecting people over the wide area network, which has been brilliant during the pandemic, because it's allowed us to extend that to home, but be of course, build a campus ready for the future as well. So there are plenty of opportunities out there. I think the big question in my mind is always about from going into the Telco, as I said, whether they wannna reduce the number of suppliers on the roster. So that puts a question mark against some of the open approaches, and then from the Telco to the end customer, because it goes to the Telcos, 30% of their revenue comes from the enterprise market, 60% from the consumer market. How do they leverage the channel? Which includes all the channels, we talked about security, all of the IT stuff that you've already touched upon and the Cloud. It's going to be a very interesting mix and balancing act between different channels to get the services that the customers want. And I think increasingly, customers are more aware of the opportunities open to them to reach back into this ecosystem and say, "Yeah, I want a piece of humans to Telco, but I want it to come to me through my local integrated channel, because I need a bit of their expertise on security." So, fascinating market, and I think not telecom's no longer considered in isolation, but very much as part of that broader digital ecosystem. >> Chris, it's very hard to compress an analysis of a $1.4 trillion business into 30 or 35 minutes, but you're just the guy to help me do it. So, I got to really thank you for participating today and bringing your knowledge. Awesome. >> Do you know, it's my pleasure. I love looking at this market. Obviously I love analogies like Harry Potter, which makes it bring things to life. But at the end of the day, we as people, we want to be connected, we as business, we want to be connected, in society we want to be connected. So, the fundamental of this industry are unbelievably strong. Let's hope that governments don't mess with it too much. And let's hope that we get the right technology comes through, and help support that world of connectivity going forward. >> All right, Chris, well, I'll be texting you from Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, and many thanks to my colleague, Chris Lewis, he brought some serious knowledge today and thank you. And remember, I publish each week on wikibond.com and siliconangle.com. And these episodes are all available as podcasts. You just got to search for Breaking Analysis podcasts. You can always connect with me on twitter @dvellante or email me at dave.vellante@siliconangle.com. And you can comment on my LinkedIn post, and don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey data. This is Dave Vellante, for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Be well, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(lively music) >> Welcome back to HPE Discover 2021. My name is Dave Vellante and you're watching theCUBE's virtual coverage of Discover '21, and we're excited to welcome back Arwa Kaddoura, she's a vice president and world-wide go-to market leader for HPE's smoking hot GreenLake Cloud Services. Arwa, welcome back to theCUBE, good to see you again. >> Thank you for having me, it's good to be with you. >> So, talk about how your products and services are supporting customer transformations. I'm interested in the experience that everybody's been dreaming about. Describe how you're giving your customer that competitive advantage. And if you've got an examples, that would be awesome. >> Yeah, you got it. I think as we heard Antonio say, that cloud is an experience, not a destination, right? And what we're doing with GreenLake is bringing those cloud capabilities and the cloud experience to our customers. You know, we like to say, colocations, data center and edge of course. So this is the cloud on prem. And so rather than forcing customers to only have to go up to cloud, to get modern cloud capabilities or the benefits of things like, pay as you go for consumption, etc, cloud native capabilities, like containers, leveraging Kubernetes, we now bring all of that to GreenLake and to our customers, edge locations, and Colocation and data centers. We've been able to dramatically transform many of our customers businesses, right, and you'll probably see it discover some of those examples come to life, for example, Carestream, who is in the electronic medical imaging world, right, they have all of the X-Ray equipment that capture X-rays and different sort of diagnostics for patients. And we worked with them to not only craft a ML solution to better read and diagnose these images, but also all of the underlying infrastructure with the HPE GreenLake ML Ops platform that allows them to instantly leverage the capabilities of machine learning and the infrastructure to go with it. >> And so tell me, so how is it resonating with customers? They're talking to customers all the time? What do they tell you? >> Sure, you know I think what our customers appreciate about HP GreenLake is, it's not sort of look, it's either all on prem in my data center, and I have to fully manage it, build it, implement it, take care of it, or it's fully public cloud, I have little control and basically, I get whatever the public cloud gives me, right? HPE GreenLake gives our customers the flexibility and control that they require, right? And so you can think of many use cases where customers have a need to have the compute storage sort of processing need to happen closer to where their data and apps live. And so for that exact reason, our customers love the flexibility, right. Cloud One Dotto was public cloud, Cloud Two Dotto I think is the cloud that comes to our customers at their convenience. And to me, what I tell CIOs and CTOs and sort of other lines of business leaders when I meet with them, is you shouldn't be forced to have to take your data and apps elsewhere to get the transformation that you need. We want to be able to bring that directly to our customers. >> 'Cause a lot of the transformation is around data, we love talking about data on theCUBE. It's funny, I mean, we talked about big data last decade, we don't use that term much anymore. It was kind of overhyped, but as oftentimes is the case may be in the early days it's overhyped, but then it's underhyped. When it actually starts to kick in, and I feel like we're entering a new age of data and insights with the ascendancy of machine learning and AI. What does this mean from HPEs perspective and what are customers telling you that it means for them? >> Yeah, now, data I think, we often hear data is the new currency, right? It's the new gold. we've heard Antonio even say things like, data can even become something that maybe over time companies start to put some kind of value on their balance sheet behind, right, the same way that maybe brands represented this value on a balance sheet. Effectively, what's happened with data is, a lot of people have a lot of data. But there's not been a lot of ability to extract insights from data, right. And I think this is the new revolution that we're all undergoing is we finally have the modern analytics tools to actually turn the data into insights. And what we bring to the table from an HPE perspective is the fact that we have the best infrastructure, we obviously now have the cloud capabilities mixed in with our data fabric or container platform, or machine learning operations platform, to then be able to process that data, again, integrated with many of the great ISV partners that we have on the data side allow our customers to turn that into real insights for their business. And effectively data is becoming a huge competitive advantage, right? I think many of us are leveraging some pretty interesting tools or gadgets these days, right? Like, I wear one of those sleep rings. You can imagine a company like that in the future that's able to collect so much data from the folks that purchase their products, then being able to give us insights about, where's the best ZIP Code that people get the most amount of sleep and which ZIP Codes are the healthiest in the United States or countries, et cetera? But data really is becoming a competitive advantage. And one of the things that we care most about at HPE is also using it as a force for good and making sure that there is a sort of ethical AI capability. >> That's a great message and very important one. It's interesting what you're saying about data and the value, how we value, it's clearly being valued in terms of companies' market caps, but maybe it's not in the balance sheet yet, but it's on the income statement in terms of data products and data services that that's happening. So, maybe we'll see if Antonia is right in the next several years. But so, let's talk more about the specific data challenges that you're solving for your customers, they talk about silos, they talk about, they haven't gotten as much value out of their data initiatives as they wanted to. What are they telling you are their challenges and how are you approaching it? >> Yeah, I think data is everywhere, right? The ability for customers to store the right amount of data is a huge challenge. Because obviously, there's a huge cost associated with collecting, keeping, cleansing, processing, all the way to sort of analyzing your data. There tends to be a ton of data silos, right. So customers are looking for a common data fabric that they can then process their data sources across, and then be able to sort of tap into that data from an analytics perspective. So much of the technology, again, that we're focused on is be able to store the data, right, our Data Fabric layer with Ezmeral, right, being able to process that data, capture that data, and then allow the analytics tools to then harness the power of that data and turn that into real business insights for our customers. Every customer that I spoken to whether their financial services, you can imagine the big financial services, I mean, they've got just bazillions of pockets of data everywhere. And the real sort of challenge for them is how do I build a common data platform that allows me to tap into that data in effective ways for my business users? >> Can you talk a little bit about how you're changing the way you're providing solutions, maybe you could contrast it with the way HPE has done in the past? Because I think that's important when you think about, you talk a lot about GreenLake and as a service. But if the products are still kind of boxes and lands and gigahertz and ports, then that's a discontinuity. So, what's changed from the past and how are you feeding into the way customers are transforming their business and supporting their outcomes? >> That's exactly right. At some point in time, right, if you think maybe 10 or 20 years back, it used to be very much about the infrastructure for HPE. What's exciting about what we're doing differently for our customers, is, look, we have the best infrastructure in the business, right? HPE has been doing this longer than anyone has probably almost 60 years now. But being able to vertically integrate right, move up in that value chain so that our customers can get more complete solutions, is the more interesting part for our customers. Our customers love our technology yes, the gigahertz and the speeds and feeds, all of that do matter because they make for some very powerful infrastructure. However, what makes it easier is the fact that we are building platform stacks on top of that hardware, that help abstract away the complexity of that infrastructure and the ability to use it far more seamlessly. And then, if you think about it we of course have also one of the most advanced services organizations. So being able to leverage our services capabilities, our platform capabilities, on top of that hardware, again, deliver it back to our customers in a consumption model, which they've come to expect from a cloud model. And then surrounded by a very rich ecosystem of partners, and we're talking about system integrators that now have capabilities on helping our customers run their GreenLake environments. We're talking about ISVs, right, so software stacks and platforms that fully integrate with the GreenLake platform for completely seamless solutions, as well as channel partners and global distributors. So I think that's where we can truly deliver the ultimate end-to-end solution. It's not just the hardware, right? But it's being complemented with the right services, being complemented with the right platform capabilities, the software integrations to deliver that workload that the customer expects. >> So customers and partners, they got to place bets, they've got to put resources, time, money, and align their resources with their partners and their suppliers like HPE. So when they ask you, hey, okay, "HPE, tell me what's your overall strategy? "Why is it compelling? "And why do you give me competitive advantage relative to some of your peers in the industry?" >> Yeah, I think what partners are going to be most excited about is the openness of the platform, right? Being able to allow our partners to leverage GreenLake Central with open API, so that they can integrate some of their own technologies into our platform, the ability to allow them to also layer in their own managed services on top of the platform is key. And, of course, being able to build sort of these win-win solutions with the system integrators, right? The system integrators have some fantastic capabilities all the way from an application development, all the way down to the infrastructure management, and data center delivery centers that they have. And so leveraging HPE GreenLake really helps them have access to the core technologies that they need to deliver these solutions. >> I wonder if I could take a little sort of side road here and ask you because so many changes going on, HPE itself is transforming, your customers are transforming, the pandemic has accelerated all these transformations. Can you talk a little bit about how you've transformed go-to-market specifically in the context of as a service? I mean, that had to be quite a change for you guys. >> Yeah, now go-to-market transformations in support of sort of moving from traditional go-to-markets, right, to cloud go-to-markets are significant. They required us to really think through what does delivering as a service solutions mean for our direct Salesforce? What does it mean for our partners and their transformations and being able to support as a service solutions? For HPE specifically, it also means thinking about our customer outcomes, not just our ability to ship the requisite hardware and say, look, once it's left our dock, our job is done, right. It really takes our obligation all the way to the customer using the technology on a day by day basis, as well as supporting them in making sure that everything from implementation to set up to the ongoing monitoring operations of the technology is working for them in the way that they'd expect in an as a service way, right? We don't expect them to operate it, we don't expect them to do anything more than pick up the phone and call us if something doesn't go as planned. >> Then how about your sellers and your partners? How did they respond? I mean, you wake up one day is Okay guys, here we go. New compensation scheme, new way to sell, new way to market. That took some thought and some time and where are you in that journey? >> That's right. And I always say, if you expect people to wake up one day and be transformed, right, you're kidding yourself. So everything from sort of the way that we think about our customers use cases, right, and empowering our sellers to understand the outcomes that our customers expect and demand from us to things like compensation to the partner rebate program that we leverage through the channel partners in order to give them the right incentives to also allow them to make the right investments to support GreenLake. HPE has a fairly significant field, sales and solution team. And so not thinking about this only as a single person that represents GreenLake, but looking at our capabilities across the board, right, we have fantastic advisory consultants on the ground with PhDs and data science, we have folks that understand high performance computing. So making sure that we're embedding the expertise in all of the right personas that support our customers, not just from a comp perspective, but also from an understanding of the end-to-end solutions that we're bringing to those markets. >> So what gets you stoked in the morning, you get out of bed, you're like, "Okay, I'm going to go attack the world." What are you most excited about for HPE and its future? >> There's so much happening right now in this sort of cloud world, right? To me, the most exciting portion is the fact that given that we've now introduced on prem cloud to the world, our ability to ship new services and new capabilities, but also do that via a very rich partner ecosystem, honestly is what probably has me most excited. This is no longer the age of go-at-it-alone, right. So not only are our engineering and product teams hard at work in the engine room producing capabilities at sort of lightning fast speeds, but it's also our ability to partner, whether it's with platform providers, software providers, or system integrators and services providers. That ecosystem is starting to come together to deliver highly meaningful solutions to our customers and all in a very open way. The number one thing that I personally care about is that our customers never feel like they are being locked in, or that they are sort of being forced, have to give up certain levels of capabilities, we want to give them the best of what's out there and allow them to then have that flexibility in their solution. >> And one of the challenges, of course, with virtual events is you don't have the hallway track, somebody can say, "Hey, have you seen that IoT zone? It's amazing, they got all these robots going around." So what would you say that people should be focused on at discover maybe things that you want to call out specific highlights or segments that you think are relevant? >> Yeah, there's going to be a ton of fantastic stuff. I think, really looking for that edge to cloud strategy, that we're going to be spending a lot of time talking about looking at some of our vertical workload solutions, right? We're going to be talking about quite a few from electronic healthcare records, to payment solutions and many more. I think, depending on what folks are interested in there's going to be something for everyone. Project Aurora, which now starts to announce our new security capabilities, the zero trust capabilities that we're delivering is probably interesting to a lot of our customers. So lots of exciting things coming and I'm excited for our customers to check those out. >> No doubt, that's a hot topic, especially given what's been happening in the news these past several months. Arwa, thanks so much for coming back in theCUBE. It's great to see you hopefully face-to-face next time. >> Thank you, I sure hope so. Thanks so much for having me. >> It was our pleasure. And thank you for watching and thank you for being with us in our ongoing coverage of HPE Discover 2021. This is Dave Vellante. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in digital tech coverage. >> Thank you. (soft music)

>> Hello. My name is Ron Kafka, and I'm the senior director for Partner Scale Initiatives for HBE Ezmeral. Thanks for joining us today at Analytics Unleashed. By now, you've heard a lot about the Ezmeral portfolio and how it can help you accomplish objectives around big data analytics and containerization. I want to shift gears a bit and then discuss our Ezmeral Technology Partner Program. I've got two great guest speakers here with me today. And together, We're going to discuss how jointly we are solving data analytic challenges for our customers. Before I introduce them, I want to take a minute to talk to provide a little bit more insight into our ecosystem program. We've created a program with a realization based on customer feedback that even the most mature organizations are struggling with their data-driven transformation efforts. It turns out this is largely due to the pace of innovation with application vendors or ICS supporting data science and advanced analytic workloads. Their advancements are simply outpacing organization's ability to move workloads into production rapidly. Bottom line, organizations want a unified experience across environments where their entire application portfolio in essence provide a comprehensive application stack and not piece parts. So, let's talk about how our ecosystem program helps solve for this. For starters, we were leveraging HPEs long track record of forging technology partnerships and it created a best in class ISB partner program specific for the Ezmeral portfolio. We were doing this by developing an open concept marketplace where customers and partners can explore, learn, engage and collaborate with our strategic technology partners. This enables our customers to adopt, deploy validated applications from industry leading software vendors on HPE Ezmeral with a high degree of confidence. Also, it provides a very deep bench of leading ISVs for other groups inside of HPE to leverage for their solutioning efforts. Speaking of industry leading ISV, it's about time and introduce you to two of those industry leaders right now. Let me welcome Daniel Hladky from Dataiku, and Omri Geller from Run:AI. So I'd like to introduce Daniel Hladky. Daniel is with Dataiku. He's a great partner for HPE. Daniel, welcome. >> Thank you for having me here. >> That's great. Hey, would you mind just talking a bit about how your partnership journey has been with HPE? >> Yes, pleasure. So the journey started about five years ago and in 2018 we signed a worldwide reseller agreement with HPE. And in 2020, we actually started to work jointly on the integration between the Dataiku Data Science Studio called DSS and integrated that with the Ezmeral Container platform, and was a great success. And it was on behalf of some clear customer projects. >> It's been a long partnership journey with you for sure with HPE. And we welcome your partnership extremely well. Just a brief question about the Container Platform and really what that's meant for Dataiku. >> Yes, Ron. Thanks. So, basically I'd like the quote here Florian Douetteau, which is the CEO of Dataiku, who said that the combination of Dataiku with the HPE Ezmeral Container Platform will help the customers to successfully scale and put machine learning projects into production. And this basically is going to deliver real impact for their business. So, the combination of the two of us is a great success. >> That's great. Can you talk about what Dataiku is doing and how HPE Ezmeral Container Platform fits in a solution offering a bit more? >> Great. So basically Dataiku DSS is our product which is a end to end data science platform, and basically brings value to the project of customers on their past enterprise AI. In simple ways, we can say it could be as simple as building data pipelines, but it could be also very complex by having machine and deep learning models at scale. So the fast track to value is by having collaboration, orchestration online technologies and the models in production. So, all of that is part of the Data Science Studio and Ezmeral fits perfectly into the part where we design and then basically put at scale those project and put it into product. >> That's perfect. Can you be a bit more specific about how you see HPE and Dataiku really tightening up a customer outcome and value proposition? >> Yes. So what we see is also the challenge of the market that probably about 80% of the use cases really never make it to production. And this is of course a big challenge and we need to change that. And I think the combination of the two of us is actually addressing exactly this need. What we can say is part of the MLOps approach, Dataiku and the Ezmeral Container Platform will provide a frictionless approach, which means without scripting and coding, customers can put all those projects into the productive environment and don't have to worry any more and be more business oriented. >> That's great. So you mentioned you're seeing customers be a lot more mature with their AI workloads and deployment. What do you suggest for the other customers out there that are just starting this journey or just thinking about how to get started? >> Yeah. That's a very good question, Ron. So what we see there is actually the challenge that people need to go on a pass of maturity. And this starts with a simple data pipelines, et cetera, and then basically move up the ladder and basically build large complex project. And here I see a very interesting offer coming now from HPE which is called D3S, which is the data science startup pack. That's something I discussed together with HPE back in early 2020. And basically, it solves the three stages, which is explore, experiment and evolve and builds quickly MVPs for the customers. By doing so, basically you addressed business objectives, lay out in the proper architecture and also setting up the proper organization around it. So, this is a great combination by HPE and Dataiku through the D3S. >> And it's a perfect example of what I mentioned earlier about leveraging the ecosystem program that we built to do deeper solutioning efforts inside of HPE in this case with our AI business unit. So, congratulations on that and thanks for joining us today. I'm going to shift gears. I'm going to bring in Omri Geller from Run:AI. Omri, welcome. It's great to have you. You guys are killing it out there in the market today. And I just thought we could spend a few minutes talking about what is so unique and differentiated from your offerings. >> Thank you, Ron. It's a pleasure to be here. Run:AI creates a virtualization and orchestration layer for AI infrastructure. We help organizations to gain visibility and control over their GPO resources and help them deliver AI solutions to market faster. And we do that by managing granular scheduling, prioritization, allocation of compute power, together with the HPE Ezmeral Container Platform. >> That's great. And your partnership with HPE is a bit newer than Daniel's, right? Maybe about the last year or so we've been working together a lot more closely. Can you just talk about the HPE partnership, what it's meant for you and how do you see it impacting your business? >> Sure. First of all, Run:AI is excited to partner with HPE Ezmeral Container Platform and help customers manage appeals for their AI workloads. We chose HPE since HPE has years of experience partnering with AI use cases and outcomes with vendors who have strong footprint in this markets. HPE works with many partners that are complimentary for our use case such as Nvidia, and HPE Container Platform together with Run:AI and Nvidia deliver a world class solutions for AI accelerated workloads. And as you can understand, for AI speed is critical. Companies want to gather important AI initiatives into production as soon as they can. And the HPE Ezmeral Container Platform, running IGP orchestration solution enables that by enabling dynamic provisioning of GPU so that resources can be easily shared, efficiently orchestrated and optimal used. >> That's great. And you talked a lot about the efficiency of the solution. What about from a customer perspective? What is the real benefit that our customers are going to be able to gain from an HPE and Run:AI offering? >> So first, it is important to understand how data scientists and AI researchers actually build solution. They do it by running experiments. And if a data scientist is able to run more experiments per given time, they will get to the solution faster. With HPE Ezmeral Container Platform, Run:AI and users such as data scientists can actually do that and seamlessly and efficiently consume large amounts of GPU resources, run more experiments or given time and therefore accelerate their research. Together, we actually saw a customer that is running almost 7,000 jobs in parallel over GPUs with efficient utilization of those GPUs. And by running more experiments, those customers can be much more effective and efficient when it comes to bringing solutions to market >> Couldn't agree more. And I think we're starting to see a lot of joint success together as we go out and talk to the story. Hey, I want to thank you both one last time for being here with me today. It was very enlightening for our team to have you as part of the program. And I'm excited to extend this customer value proposition out to the rest of our communities. With that, I'd like to close today's session. I appreciate everyone's time. And keep an eye out on our ISP marketplace for Ezmeral We're continuing to expand and add new capabilities and new partners to our marketplace. We're excited to do a lot of great things and help you guys all be successful. Thanks for joining. >> Thank you, Ron. >> What a great panel discussion. And these partners they really do have a good understanding of the possibilities, working on the platform, and I hope and expect we'll see this ecosystem continue to grow. That concludes the main program, which means you can now pick one of three live demos to attend and chat live with experts. Now those three include day in the life of IT Admin, day in the life of a data scientist, and even a day in the life of the HPE Ezmeral Data Fabric, where you can see the many ways the data fabric is used in your life today. Wish you could attend all three, no worries. The recordings will be available on demand for you and your teams. Moreover, the show doesn't stop here, HPE has a growing and thriving tech community, you should check it out. It's really a solid starting point for learning more, talking to smart people about great ideas and seeing how Ezmeral can be part of your own data journey. Again, thanks very much to all of you for joining, until next time, keep unleashing the power of your data.

>> Hello. My name is Ron Kafka, and I'm the senior director for Partner Scale Initiatives for HBE Ezmeral. Thanks for joining us today at Analytics Unleashed. By now, you've heard a lot about the Ezmeral portfolio and how it can help you accomplish objectives around big data analytics and containerization. I want to shift gears a bit and then discuss our Ezmeral Technology Partner Program. I've got two great guest speakers here with me today. And together, We're going to discuss how jointly we are solving data analytic challenges for our customers. Before I introduce them, I want to take a minute to talk to provide a little bit more insight into our ecosystem program. We've created a program with a realization based on customer feedback that even the most mature organizations are struggling with their data-driven transformation efforts. It turns out this is largely due to the pace of innovation with application vendors or ICS supporting data science and advanced analytic workloads. Their advancements are simply outpacing organization's ability to move workloads into production rapidly. Bottom line, organizations want a unified experience across environments where their entire application portfolio in essence provide a comprehensive application stack and not piece parts. So, let's talk about how our ecosystem program helps solve for this. For starters, we were leveraging HPEs long track record of forging technology partnerships and it created a best in class ISB partner program specific for the Ezmeral portfolio. We were doing this by developing an open concept marketplace where customers and partners can explore, learn, engage and collaborate with our strategic technology partners. This enables our customers to adopt, deploy validated applications from industry leading software vendors on HPE Ezmeral with a high degree of confidence. Also, it provides a very deep bench of leading ISVs for other groups inside of HPE to leverage for their solutioning efforts. Speaking of industry leading ISV, it's about time and introduce you to two of those industry leaders right now. Let me welcome Daniel Hladky from Dataiku, and Omri Geller from Run:AI. So I'd like to introduce Daniel Hladky. Daniel is with Dataiku. He's a great partner for HPE. Daniel, welcome. >> Thank you for having me here. >> That's great. Hey, would you mind just talking a bit about how your partnership journey has been with HPE? >> Yes, pleasure. So the journey started about five years ago and in 2018 we signed a worldwide reseller agreement with HPE. And in 2020, we actually started to work jointly on the integration between the Dataiku Data Science Studio called DSS and integrated that with the Ezmeral Container platform, and was a great success. And it was on behalf of some clear customer projects. >> It's been a long partnership journey with you for sure with HPE. And we welcome your partnership extremely well. Just a brief question about the Container Platform and really what that's meant for Dataiku. >> Yes, Ron. Thanks. So, basically I like the quote here Florian Douetteau, which is the CEO of Dataiku, who said that the combination of Dataiku with the HPE Ezmeral Container Platform will help the customers to successfully scale and put machine learning projects into production. And this basically is going to deliver real impact for their business. So, the combination of the two of us is a great success. >> That's great. Can you talk about what Dataiku is doing and how HPE Ezmeral Container Platform fits in a solution offering a bit more? >> Great. So basically Dataiku DSS is our product which is a end to end data science platform, and basically brings value to the project of customers on their past enterprise AI. In simple ways, we can say it could be as simple as building data pipelines, but it could be also very complex by having machine and deep learning models at scale. So the fast track to value is by having collaboration, orchestration online technologies and the models in production. So, all of that is part of the Data Science Studio and Ezmeral fits perfectly into the part where we design and then basically put at scale those project and put it into product. >> That's perfect. Can you be a bit more specific about how you see HPE and Dataiku really tightening up a customer outcome and value proposition? >> Yes. So what we see is also the challenge of the market that probably about 80% of the use cases really never make it to production. And this is of course a big challenge and we need to change that. And I think the combination of the two of us is actually addressing exactly this need. What we can say is part of the MLOps approach, Dataiku and the Ezmeral Container Platform will provide a frictionless approach, which means without scripting and coding, customers can put all those projects into the productive environment and don't have to worry any more and be more business oriented. >> That's great. So you mentioned you're seeing customers be a lot more mature with their AI workloads and deployment. What do you suggest for the other customers out there that are just starting this journey or just thinking about how to get started? >> Yeah. That's a very good question, Ron. So what we see there is actually the challenge that people need to go on a pass of maturity. And this starts with a simple data pipelines, et cetera, and then basically move up the ladder and basically build large complex project. And here I see a very interesting offer coming now from HPE which is called D3S, which is the data science startup pack. That's something I discussed together with HPE back in early 2020. And basically, it solves the three stages, which is explore, experiment and evolve and builds quickly MVPs for the customers. By doing so, basically you addressed business objectives, lay out in the proper architecture and also setting up the proper organization around it. So, this is a great combination by HPE and Dataiku through the D3S. >> And it's a perfect example of what I mentioned earlier about leveraging the ecosystem program that we built to do deeper solutioning efforts inside of HPE in this case with our AI business unit. So, congratulations on that and thanks for joining us today. I'm going to shift gears. I'm going to bring in Omri Geller from Run:AI. Omri, welcome. It's great to have you. You guys are killing it out there in the market today. And I just thought we could spend a few minutes talking about what is so unique and differentiated from your offerings. >> Thank you, Ron. It's a pleasure to be here. Run:AI creates a virtualization and orchestration layer for AI infrastructure. We help organizations to gain visibility and control over their GPO resources and help them deliver AI solutions to market faster. And we do that by managing granular scheduling, prioritization, allocation of compute power, together with the HPE Ezmeral Container Platform. >> That's great. And your partnership with HPE is a bit newer than Daniel's, right? Maybe about the last year or so we've been working together a lot more closely. Can you just talk about the HPE partnership, what it's meant for you and how do you see it impacting your business? >> Sure. First of all, Run:AI is excited to partner with HPE Ezmeral Container Platform and help customers manage appeals for their AI workloads. We chose HPE since HPE has years of experience partnering with AI use cases and outcomes with vendors who have strong footprint in this markets. HPE works with many partners that are complimentary for our use case such as Nvidia, and HPE Ezmeral Container Platform together with Run:AI and Nvidia deliver a word about solution for AI accelerated workloads. And as you can understand, for AI speed is critical. Companies want to gather important AI initiatives into production as soon as they can. And the HPE Ezmeral Container Platform, running IGP orchestration solution enables that by enabling dynamic provisioning of GPU so that resources can be easily shared, efficiently orchestrated and optimal used. >> That's great. And you talked a lot about the efficiency of the solution. What about from a customer perspective? What is the real benefit that our customers are going to be able to gain from an HPE and Run:AI offering? >> So first, it is important to understand how data scientists and AI researchers actually build solution. They do it by running experiments. And if a data scientist is able to run more experiments per given time, they will get to the solution faster. With HPE Ezmeral Container Platform, Run:AI and users such as data scientists can actually do that and seamlessly and efficiently consume large amounts of GPU resources, run more experiments or given time and therefore accelerate their research. Together, we actually saw a customer that is running almost 7,000 jobs in parallel over GPUs with efficient utilization of those GPUs. And by running more experiments, those customers can be much more effective and efficient when it comes to bringing solutions to market >> Couldn't agree more. And I think we're starting to see a lot of joint success together as we go out and talk to the story. Hey, I want to thank you both one last time for being here with me today. It was very enlightening for our team to have you as part of the program. And I'm excited to extend this customer value proposition out to the rest of our communities. With that, I'd like to close today's session. I appreciate everyone's time. And keep an eye out on our ISP marketplace for Ezmeral We're continuing to expand and add new capabilities and new partners to our marketplace. We're excited to do a lot of great things and help you guys all be successful. Thanks for joining. >> Thank you, Ron. (bright upbeat music)

(soothing music) >> Commentator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stuart Miniman, and welcome to this Pensando event. We're talking about how Pensando is helping the future proof for enterprise. Really happy to welcome back to the program. Prem Jain he is the CEO of Pensando. Prem, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> All right, So we had the opportunity, Jeff Frick was at the launch when Pensando came out of stealth. Of course, we were all together there, New York City, beautiful views at the Goldman Sachs office in New York City. We had John Chambers there, Antonio Neary and really explaining to the world what your team is doing. And giving that out to the world. We're a little bit more than six months later. So, first just give us the update is how's your team doing? Obviously, when people come out of stealth or have any major things going on. You can't necessarily predict when things like a pandemic or global financial situations are happening, but how's the team doing and give us the updates since last year? >> Yeah sure, thank you. It was a great launch actually we had and that was in October. Since then, the company had made tremendous progress in all different areas of the company. So let me start with a number of people. We have grown to 250 plus people in the company, we filled up all our key positions in the company, and we are really making very good progress with the whole overall team. Product-wise, we continuously delivering since October last year. We have made multiple releases for the enterprise customers, we have made multiple releases for the cloud customers. And we also have done work with some other service provider customers. And the product is really doing very well in these environments. We have partners like you mentioned in the Discover show, HP is going to launch our cards into their server. This is the official launch, we are already shipping to some customers. And this particular thing is with all their servers as well as the GreenLake product. We continue to work with our cloud partners and they are also, we have done multiple releases to them and they will all go in production in next six months time frame. We also have a lot of interest, we are seeing it from the service product customers and we are working with a few of them. I cannot mention the name at this particular point but we will share with you, once that information becomes available. And they are very excited about the technologies which we have. And they think this innovation which we bringing into the market is really great for the edge market, in the cloud as well as edge of the service provider. >> Congratulations Prem on the progress there, of course, HPE was an investor and you know and expected to be an OEM. So, getting that, you know less than a year from when you've come out of stealth, to being generally available this month, great milestone there. And as you said, you've already got some early customers using it. >> Yes. >> Help us understand, when the company first launched, your team has a very storied pedigree. Everyone in the network knows what you've done before. when I was waiting to watch, when you were in stealth, it's like, okay, well, I know there's going to be a chip and, we'll see how all the software that happening in the world is going to change that. So very Much edge is one of the, key use cases that you talk about, that you're enabling but, help our audience understand a little bit. If I'm an HPE customer, and I'm looking at GreenLake, I'm looking at ProLiant. What are those things that I'm doing that says, Oh, hey, HPE is now going to offer this to me. >> Yeah, so I think what the customer is going to get in the very beginning is HPE is going to ship our DSC card into the server. And that makes the server a future proof. And the reason for that is because, initially they are just using the networking capabilities. But then going forward, they can enable security capabilities. We can do like distributed firewall. We can do distributed load balancing, we can provide the encryptions, we can provide the capability of making sure the system is highly secure. We have created a air gap between the host and the network itself. They can also making it sure that they can get the visibility on the networking side, as well, as the application is very close to the application edge. Security is the right place to be close to where the application is running on the server. And then we provide the capability with the policy and service manager, so that they can manage lifecycle of this particular products into all the servers which is installed, as well as making sure they can enable all the features and capabilities based upon the object model. >> Yeah, excellent. Absolutely security needs to be everywhere. So when we think about edge models, how do I get into those devices? So therefore, form factor of a card, that fits in seems to be well. We talked about it at the launch. Goldman Sachs was, a customer of yours. They're very well known in the enterprise space, Financial Services, needs to make sure securities there needs to understand that, maybe speak to that enterprise customer. And if there's anything specifically with how Goldman sees this rolling, that can help illustrate a little bit more what you're doing. >> Sure, so we start shipping to Goldman right after the launch, as we talked about in the launch itself. They have since then, they are now expanding it and rolling it out more servers and capabilities into their environment, particularly using distributed firewall, and other capabilities, which is, they wanted to make sure that it get deployed into their environment. And one of the things which is we are looking at it also, is that we want it to be for every future servers they buy, we want to be part of it and then they can enable all the services related to like I talked about before. Firewall, load balancing, micro-segmentation other capabilities, containers down the road. To make sure that we can provide storage also as a part of it. So we can enable them to deploy those services and that makes it also in their case of future proof once they deployed, roll out this particular capabilities. At the same time, we have more than 10 to 12 customers, which is we are doing a POC and these are all very large enterprise customers. And the POC so far has done... is going very well. And these customers again will deploy different capabilities of the product. Starting in Q3, Q4 this year. The POC is going very well and we are very excited about working with these customers and these are named brand customers. Once you will see it, once we will announce it, you will see it, this is really making a difference in their environment. >> You talk about the capabilities that customers are using today and then, the roadmap of services that they will be able to add on top of that. >> Obviously, you're talking about future proof, I shouldn't change the hardware. But, how do I think about it from a customer standpoint? Is it similar to kind of a SaaS model as to how things updated? Do do I purchase it? More as a subscription than as a feature card? How should I be thinking that from a consumption model or, the finance team, when you say, oh, there's all these wonderful things? What will that do to my cost over time? >> No absolutely, I think it's a very good point, the way the customer should think about it is that they're getting, one is a piece of the hardware which provides this capabilities. And then on top of it, the subscription model, which allows them to pay in three years, or if they want to buy it all in once, they can also do that. It's a very cost effective way of deploying these services. This is a new paradigm. This is a world of distributed services paradigm, and I think this will allow them to scale up, scale down whatever is needed because by the time you are discarding to a server, you're basically adding these capabilities in every server. And more servers you're going to add, you don't need to worry about, do I need to add this particular capabilities on the servers, you can enable whatever is necessary to enable in that server. And it's a very cost effective model. Once you enable these services, encryptions, compressions, firewall, load balancing, all the networking services and storage services, once you enable all those, it's very cost justifiable in terms of deploying these services. >> So Prem, when I think about HPE and their history, in the compute market very much they offer flexibility, they want things to be really simple when they go out the door. You've both partnered with them as well as created competing products with HP in the past so, give us a little bit more as to what Pensando plus HPE will deliver to the market place. >> Yeah, exciting, is a very good partnership so far, I think can we assume that this is going to continuously get better and better. The reason I think is very important, because instead of just selling a classic server, HPEs now have the ability to provide the security solutions, networking solutions, as well as storage solutions to their customers. And this one is really providing all the services, simplifying the design of the network, and also making sure that the customers can enable all these capabilities wherever they want. It's a model which is unprecedented in the sense of it's a totally distributed and the customers should be able to enable whatever the service they need there, even if they didn't plan it in the past. >> Yeah, excellent, we very much these days talk about, how important data is, and I need to be able to deliver services where the data is. So, very much a discussion of the cloud as well as the edge. So, it sounds like this is extending, the importance of that data and being able to bring those services, very much where the data is being created and service in real time. >> Correct. >> Okay, so, from the HPE relationship obviously gives you, a good chunk of the enterprise business, but down the road, should we be thinking about other partnerships and potentially even other OEM relationships? >> Yes, I think, like I said, we are working with the two or three major cloud vendors. And they will be rolling it out by the end of this year. And they see themselves like we said, we are going to democratize the Cloud based upon the fact that the only solution which is Amazon has based upon the Nitro, we are now providing the capabilities, to all the cloud vendors. And they can take this particular technologies and integrate in their environment, which is what we are providing the software stack. And they are integrating, and they will be going into the production and providing more capabilities, more features, and stuff like that. Then what the competition will provide. So this is a really excellent opportunity, both for us as well as for our cloud vendor partners. >> Yeah, one of the key things when you hear talk of what AWS is doing with Nitro, and the Outpost solution is they talk about, from a hardware standpoint and a software standpoint, they pull certain things off of the software layer to be able to have them be more performing, but also it's both in the cloud and in your location, whether that be an edge data center with Outpost, it's the same on both ends. So, it should I be thinking of this in a similar model that you need to... I guess, where is it that it would be an enterprise only play? And what considerations is it between enterprise and cloud when you'd be buying it from multiple vendors, if they're enabled by your solution? >> Absolutely, and I think for the enterprise, the people who wants to build their own cloud, I think this is provide a really excellent solution. Because all the capabilities which we have will provide all the features which you can get from the cloud vendors, in that particular sense. And if you are in the cloud, you can provide scale and capabilities to the cloud vendors. Now the combination is a very powerful solutions between, you can get the same services, whether you're in premise, or providing or leveraging the cloud. And that can give also hybrid opportunities. You can run, same capabilities, same features in the hybrid cloud model where you're running some on your premises and some running in the cloud itself. >> Excellent, all right. So, Prem you've got the solution coming out with HPE, you talked a little bit about some of the other, partnerships in the cloud. Partners there, give us a little bit of priorities for the second half of 2020. >> Yeah, so I think the first half we have done very well financially also, we are running almost close to 50% ahead of our forecast where we were at this particular point. Going forward, I think we need to make sure that we execute based upon, the current roadmap which we have, and making sure that we meet the customers expectations and our partners expectations. And also, I want to also give you another thing is that which is our plan is basically our second generation innovation. Also is going to come in very soon, and we will be able to take that into the production also on the first half of next year. So I think all for the second half, we have a pretty good opportunity to really capture with our solutions, as well as looking forward to win some more design wins, both with our current solutions as well as the new solutions, which we're going to take it today. >> All right, well Prem Jain let me just give you the final word as to how customers should be thinking about Pensando as they look the future proof their enterprise. >> Absolutely, I think based on the history, we are known as a innovation machine in the industry, and we continuously do better and better. So I think the people should think about us is providing really looking at this transition, which is happening in the enterprise cloud as well as in the service provider space. And we will provide the solution, which is really will meet their expectations, and the solution is consistent whether it's for VMs whether resources containers, whether it's for bare-metal services, and providing all these services in a very consistent manner. >> And well thank you so much for the updates. Congratulations on the continued steps along with HPE and definitely look forward to catching up with you and the team in the future. >> Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. And definitely we will talk six months from now and and again see how much progress we have made and what I told you and I will compare the notes and say, this is what we have done better. >> Alright, stay tuned. We have a lot of interviews with some of the Pensando teams as well as that partnership with HPE. I'm Stuart Miniman and check out theCUBE.net for all of the background on this. And thank you for watching. (upbeat music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now here are your hosts, Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. >> Hi everybody, Dave Vellante here with Stu Miniman. We're here to unpack the recent acquisition that IBM announced of Red Hat. $34 billon acquisition financed with cash and debt. And Stu, let me get us started. Why would IBM spend $34 billion on Red Hat? Its largest acquisition to date of a software company had been Cognos at $5 billion. This is a massive move. IBM's Ginni Rometty called this a game changer. And essentially, my take is that they're pivoting. Their public cloud strategy was not living up to expectations. They're pivoting to hybrid cloud. Their hybrid cloud strategy was limited because they didn't really have strong developer mojo, their Bluemix PaaS layer had really failed. And so they really needed to make a big move here, and this is a big move. And so IBM's intent, and Ginni Rometty laid out the strategy, is to become number one in hybrid cloud, the undisputed leader. And so we'll talk about that. But Stu, from Red Hat's perspective, it's a company you're very close to and you've observed for a number of years, Red Hat was on a path touting a $5 billion revenue plan, what happened? Why would they capitulate? >> Yeah Dave, on the face of it, Red Hat says that IBM will help it further its mission. We just listened to Arvin Krishna from IBM talking with Paul Cormier at Red Hat, and they talked about how they were gonna keep the Red Hat brand alive. IBM has a long history with open source. As you mentioned, I've been working with Red Hat, gosh, almost 20 years now, and we all think back to two decades ago, when IBM put a billion dollars into Linux and really pushed on open source. So these are not strangers, they know each other really well. Part of me looks at these from a cynicism standpoint. Somebody on Twitter said that Red Hat is hitting it at the peak of Kubernetes hype. And therefore, they're gonna get maximum valuation for where the stock is. Red Hat has positioned itself rather well in the hybrid cloud world, really the multicloud world, when you go to AWS, when you go to the Microsoft Azure environment, you talk to Google. Open source fits into that environment and Red Hat products specifically tie into those environments. Remember last year, in Boston, there's a video of Andy Jassy talking about a partnership with Red Hat. This year, up on stage, Microsoft with Azure partnering deeply with Red Hat. So Red Hat has done a nice job of moving beyond Linux. But Linux is still at its core. There definitely is concern that the operating system is less important today than it was in the past. It was actually Red Hat's acquisition of CoreOS for about $250 million earlier this year that really put a fine point on it. CoreOS was launched to be just enough Linux to live in this kind of container and Kubernetes world. And Red Hat, of course, like we've seen often, the company that is saying, "We're going to kill you", well you go and you buy them. So Red Hat wasn't looking to kill IBM, but definitely we've seen this trend of softwares eating the world, and open sources eating software. So IBM, hopefully, is a embracing that open source ethos. I have to say, Dave, for myself, a little sad to see the news. Red Hat being the paragon of open source. The one that we always go to for winning in this space. So we hope that they will be able to keep their culture. We've had a chance, many times, to interview Jim Whitehurst, really respected CEO. One that we think should stay involved in IBM deeply for this. But if they can keep and grow the culture, then it's a win for Red Hat. But still sorting through everything, and it feels like a little bit of a capitulation that Red Hat decides to sell off rather than keep its mission of getting to five billion and beyond, and be the leading company in the space. >> Well I think it is a bit of a capitulation. Because look, Red Hat is roughly a $3 billion company, growing at 20% a year, had that vision of five billion Its stock, in June, had hit $175. So while IBM's paying a 60% premium off of its current price, it's really only about 8 or 9% higher than where Red Hat was just a few months ago. And so I think, there's an old saying on Wall Street, the first disappointment is never the last. And so I think that Red Hat was looking at a long slog. They reduced expectations, they guided lower, and they were looking at the 90-day shot clock. And this probably wasn't going to be a good 'nother couple of years for Red Hat. And they're selling at the peak of the market, or roughly the peak of the market. They probably figured, hey, the window is closing, potentially, to do this deal. Maybe not such a bad time to get out, as opposed to trying to slog it out. Your thoughts. >> Yeah, Dave, I think you're absolutely right. When you look at where Red Hat is winning, they've done great in OpenStack but there's not a lot of excitement around OpenStack. Kubernetes was talked about lots in the announcement, in the briefings, and everything like that. I was actually surprised you didn't hear as much about just the core business. You would think you would be hearing about all the companies using Red Hat Enterprise Linux around the world. That ratable model that Red Hat really has a nice base of their environment. It was talking more about the future and where Kubernetes, and cloud-native, and all of that development will go. IBM has done middling okay with developers. They have a strong history in middleware, which is where a lot of the Red Hat development activity has been heading. It was interesting to hear, on the call, it's like, oh well, what about the customers that are using IBM too say, "Oh well, if customers want that, we'll still do it." What about IBM with Cloud Foundry? Well absolutely, if customers wanna still be doing it, they'll do that. So you don't hear the typical, "Oh well, we're going to take Red Hat technology "and push it through all of IBM's channel." This is in the IBM cloud group, and that's really their focus, as it is. I feel like they're almost limiting the potential for growth for Red Hat. >> Well so IBM's gonna pay for this, as I said, it's an all cash deal. IBM's got about 14 and a half billion dollars on the balance sheet. And so they gotta take out some debt. S&P downgraded IBM's rating from an A+ to an A. And so the ratings agency is going to be watching IBM's growth. IBM said this will add 200 basis points of revenue growth over the five year CAGR. But that means we're really not gonna see that for six, seven years. And Ginni Rometty stressed this is not a backend loaded thing. We're gonna find revenue opportunities through cross-selling and go-to-market. But we have a lot of questions on this deal, Stu. And I wanna sorta get into that. So first of all, again, I think it's the right move for IBM. It's a big move for IBM. Rumors were that Cisco might have been interested. I'm not sure if Microsoft was in the mix. So IBM went for it and, as I said, didn't pay a huge premium over where their stock was back in June. Now of course, back in June, the market was kind of inflated. But nonetheless, the strategy now is to go multi-cloud. The number one in the multi-cloud world. What is that multi-cloud leadership? How are we gonna measure multi-cloud? Is IBM, now, the steward of open source for the industry? To your point earlier, you're sad, Stu, I know. >> You bring up a great point. So I think back to three years ago, with the Wikibon we put together, our true private cloud forecast. And when we built that, we said, "Okay, here's the hardware, and software, "and services in private cloud." And we said, "Well let's try to measure hybrid cloud." And we spent like, six months looking at this. And it's like, well what is hybrid cloud? I've got my public cloud pieces, and I've got my private cloud pieces. Well there's some management layers and things that go in between. Do I count things like PaaS? So do you save people like Pivotal and Red Hat's OpenShift? Are those hybrid cloud? Well but they live either here or there. They're not usually necessarily helping with the migration and moving around. I can live in multiple environments. So Linux and containers live in the public, they live in the private, they don't just fly around in the ether. So measuring hybrid cloud, I think is really tough. Does IBM plus Red Hat make them a top leader in this hybrid multi-cloud world? Absolutely, they should be mentioned a lot more. When I go to the cloud shows, the public cloud shows, IBM isn't one of the first peak companies you think about. Red Hat absolutely is in the conversation. It actually should raise the profile of Red Hat because, while Red Hat plays in a lot of the conversations, they're also not the first company that comes to mind when you talk about them. Microsoft, middle of hybrid cloud. Oracle, positioning their applications in this multi-cloud world. Of course you can't talk about cloud, any cloud, without talking about Amazon's position in the marketplace. And SAS is the real place that it plays. So IBM, one of their biggest strengths is that they have applications. Dave, you know the space really well. What does this mean vis-à-vis Oracle? >> Well let's see, so Oracle, I think, is looking at this, saying, alright. I would say IBM is Oracle's number one competitor in the enterprise. You got SAP, and Amazon obviously in cloud, et cetera, et cetera. But let me put it this way, I think Oracle is IBM's number one competitor. Whether Oracle sees it that way or not. But they're clearly similar companies, in terms of their vertical integration. I think Oracle's looking at this, saying, hey. There's no way Oracle was gonna spend $34 billion on Red Hat. And I don't think they were interested in really spending any money on the alternatives. But does this put Canonical and SUSE in play? I think Oracle's gonna look at this and sort of message to its customers, "We're already number one in our world in hybrid cloud." But I wanna come back to the deal. I'm actually optimistic on the deal, from the standpoint of, I think IBM had to make a big move like this. Because it was largely just bumping along. But I'm not buying the narrative from Jim Whitehurst that, "Well we had to do this to scale." Why couldn't they scale with partners? I just don't understand that. They're open. This is largely, to me, a services deal. This is a big boon for IBM Services business. In fact, Jim Whitehurst, and Ginni even said that today on the financial analyst call, Jim said, "Our big constraint was "services scale and the industry expertise there." So what was that constraint? Why couldn't they partner with Accenture, and Ernie Young, and PwC, and the likes of Deloitte, to scale and preserve greater independence? And I think that the reason is, IBM sees an opportunity and they're going hard after it. So how will, or will, IBM change its posture relative to some of those big services plays? >> Yeah, Dave, I think you're absolutely right there. Because Red Hat should've been able to scale there. I wonder if it's just that all of those big service system integrators, they're working really closely with the public cloud providers. And while Red Hat was a piece of it, it wasn't the big piece of it. And therefore, I'm worried on the application migration. I'm worried about the adoption of infrastructure as a service. And Red Hat might be a piece in the puzzle, but it wasn't the driver for that change, and the move, and the modernization activities that were going on. That being said, OpenShift was a great opportunity. It plays in a lot of these environments. It'll be really interesting to see. And a huge opportunity for IBM to take and accelerate that business. From a services standpoint, do you think it'll change their position with regard to the SIs? >> I don't. I think IBM's gonna try to present, preserve Red Hat as an independent company. I would love to see IBM do what EMC did years ago with VMware, and float some portion of the company, and truly have it at least be quasi-independent. With an independent operating structure, and reporting structure from the standpoint of a public company. That would really signal to the partners that IBM's serious about maintaining independence. >> Yeah now, look Dave, IBM has said they will keep the brand, they will keep the products. Of all the companies that would buy Red Hat, I'm not super worried about kinda polluting open source. It was kinda nice that Jim Whitehurst would say, if it's a Red Hat thing, it is 100% open source. And IBM plays in a lot of these environments. A friend of mine on Twitter was like, "Oh hey, IBM's coming back to OpenDaylight or things like that." Because they'd been part of Cloud Foundry, they'd been part of OpenDaylight. There's certain ones that they are part of it and then they step back. So IBM, credibly open source space, if they can let Red Hat people still do their thing. But the concern is that lots of other companies are gonna be calling up project leads, and contributors in the open source community that might've felt that Red Hat was ideal place to live, and now they might go get their paycheck somewhere else. >> There's rumors that Jim Whitehurst eventually will take over IBM. I don't see it, I just don't think Jim Whitehurst wants to run Z mainframes and Services. That doesn't make any sense to me. Ginni's getting to the age where IBM CEOs typically retire, within the next couple of years. And so I think that it's more likely they'll bring in somebody from internally. Whether it's Arvin or, more likely, Jim Kavanaugh 'cause he's got the relationship with Wall Street. Let's talk about winners and losers. It's just, again, a huge strategic move for IBM. Frankly, I see the big winners is IBM and Red Hat. Because as we described before, IBM was struggling with its execution, and Red Hat was just basically, finally hitting a wall after 60-plus quarters of growth. And so the question is, will its customers win? The big concern I have for the customers is, IBM has this nasty habit of raising prices when it does acquisitions. We've seen it a number of times. And so you keep an eye on it, if I were a Red Hat customer, I'd be locking in some attractive pricing, longterm. And I would also be calling Mark Shuttleworth, and get his take, and get that Amdahl coffee cup on my desk, as it were. Other winners and losers, your thoughts on some of the partners, and the ecosystem. >> Yeah, when I look at this and say, compare it to Microsoft buying GitHub. We're all wondering, is this a real game changer for IBM? And if they embrace the direction. It's not like Red Hat culture is going to just take over IBM. In the Q&A with IBM, they said, "Will there be influence? Absolutely. "Is this a marriage of equals? No. "We're buying Red Hat and we will be "communicating and working together on this" But you can see how this can help IBM, as to the direction. Open source and the multi-cloud world is a huge, important piece. Cisco, I think, could've made a move like this. I would've been a little bit more worried about maintaining open source purity, if it was somebody like Cisco. There's other acquisitions, you mentioned Canonical and SUSE are out there. If somebody wanted to do this, the role of the operating system is much less important than it is today. You wouldn't have seen Microsoft up on stage at Red Hat Summit this year if Windows was the driver for Microsoft going forward. The cloud companies out there, to be honest, it really cements their presence out there. I don't think AWS is sitting there saying, "Oh jeez, we need to worry." They're saying, "Well IBM's capitulated." Realizing that, "Sure they have their own cloud, "and their environment, but they're going to be "successful only when they live in, "and around, and amongst our platform of Amazon." And Azure's gonna feel the same way, and same about Google. So there's that dynamic there. >> What about VMware? >> So I think VMware absolutely is a loser here. When I went back to say one of the biggest strengths of IBM is that they have applications. When you talk about Red Hat, they're really working, not only at the infrastructure layer, but working with developers, and working in that environment. The biggest weakness of VMware, is they don't own the applications. I'm paying licenses to VMware. And in a multi-cloud world, why do I need VMware? As opposed to Red Hat and IBM, or Amazon, or Microsoft, have a much more natural affinity for the applications and the data in the future. >> And what about the arms dealers? HPE and Dell, in particular, and of course, Lenovo. Wouldn't they prefer Red Hat being independent? >> Absolutely, they would prefer that they're gonna stay independent. As long as it doesn't seem to customers that IBM is trying to twist everybody's arms, and get you on to Z, or Power, or something like that. And continues to allow partnerships with the HPEs, Dells, Lenovos of the world. I think they'll be okay. So I'd say middling to impact. But absolutely, Red Hat, as an independent, was really the Switzerland of the marketplace. >> Ginni Rometty had sited three growth areas. One was Red Hat scale and go-to-market. I think there's no question about that. IBM could help with Red Hat's go-to-market. The other growth vector was IBM's products and software on the Red Hat stack. I'm less optimistic there, because I think that it's the strength of IBM's products, in and of themselves, that are largely gonna determine that success. And then the third was Services. I think IBM Services is a huge winner here. Having the bat phone into Red Hat is a big win for IBM Services. They can now differentiate. And this is where I think it's gonna be really interesting to see the posture of Accenture and those other big guys. I think IBM can now somewhat differentiate from those guys, saying, "Well wait, "we have exclusive, or not exclusive, "but inside baseball access to Red Hat." So that's gonna be an interesting dynamic to watch. Your final thoughts here. >> Yeah, yeah, Dave, absolutely. On the product integration piece, the question would be, you're gonna have OpenAPIs. This is all gonna work with the entire ecosystem. Couldn't IBM have done more of this without having to pay $34 billion and put things together? Services, absolutely, will be the measurement as to whether this is successful or not. That's probably gonna be the line out of them in financials, that we're gonna have to look at. Because, Dave, going back to, what is hybrid, and how do we measure it? What is success for this whole acquisition down the line? Any final pieces to what we should watch and how we measure that? >> So I think that, first of all, IBM's really good with acquisitions, so keep an eye on that. I'm not so concerned about the debt. IBM's got strong free cash flow. Red Hat throws off a billion dollars a year in free cash flow. This should be an accretive acquisition. In terms of operating profits, it might take a couple of years. But certainly from a standpoint of free cash flow and revenue growth, I think it's gonna help near-term. If it doesn't, that's something that's really important to watch. And then the last thing is culture. You know a lot of people at these companies. I know a lot of people at these companies. Look, the Red Hat culture drinks the Kool-Aid of open. You know this. Do they see IBM as the steward of open, and are they gonna face a brain drain? That's why it's no coincidence that Whitehurst and Rometty were down in North Carolina today. And Arvin and Paul Cormier were in Boston today. This is where a lot of employees are for Red Hat. And they're messaging. And so that's very, very important. IBM's not foolish. So that, to me, Stu, is a huge thing, is the culture. Dave, IBM is no longer the navy suit with the red tie, and everybody buttoned down. People are concerned about like, oh, IBM's gonna give the Red Hat people a dress code. Sure, the typical IBMer is not in a graphic tee and a hoodie. But, Dave, you've seen such a transformation in IBM over the last couple of decades. >> Yeah, definitely. And I think this really does, in my view, cement, now, the legacy of Ginny Rometty, which was kinda hanging on Watson, and Cognitive, and this sort of bespoke set of capabilities, and the SoftLayer acquisition. It, now, all comes together. This is a major pivot by IBM. I think, strategically, it's the right move for IBM. And I think, if in fact, IBM can maintain Red Hat's independence and that posture, and maintain its culture and employee base, I think it does change the game for IBM. So I would say, smart move, good move. Expensive but probably worth it. >> Yeah, where else would they have put their money, Dave? >> Yeah, right. Alright, Stu, thank you very much for unpacking this announcement. And thank you for watching. We'll see you next time. (mellow electronic music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE! Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hi everybody, welcome to the special CUBE conversation on secondary storage and data protection, which is one of the hottest topics in the business right now. Cloud, multi-cloud, bringing the Cloud experience to wherever your data lives and protecting that data driven by digital transformation. We're gonna talk about that with Patrick Osborne, the Vice President and General Manager for big data and secondary storage at HPE, good friend and CUBE alum. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> Great, thanks for having us. >> So let's start with some of those trends that I mentioned. I think, let's start with digital transformation. It's a big buzzword in the industry but it's real. I travel around, I talk to customers all the time, everybody's trying to get digital transformation right. And digital means data, data needs to be protected in new ways now, and so when we trickle down into your world, data protection, what are you seeing in terms of the impact of digital and digital transformation on data protection? >> Absolutely, great question. So the winds of change in secondary storage are blowing pretty hard right now. I think there's a couple different things that are driving that conversation. A, the specialization of people with specific backup teams, right, that's moving away, right. You're moving away from general storage administration and specialized teams to people focusing a lot of those resources now on Cloud Ops team, DevOps team, application development. So they want that activity of data protection to be automated and invisible. Like you said before, in terms of being able to re-use that data, the old days of essentially having a primary dataset and then pushing it off to some type of secondary storage which just sits there over time, is not something that customers want anymore. >> Right. >> They wanna be able to use that data, they wanna be able to generate copies of that, do test and dev, gain insight from that, being able to move that to the Cloud, for example, to be able to burst out there or do it for DR activities. So I think there's a lot of things that are happening when it comes to data that are certainly changing the requirements and expectations around secondary storage. >> So the piece I want to bring to the conversation is Cloud and I saw a stat recently that the average company, the average enterprise has, like, eight clouds, and I was thinking, sheesh, small company like ours has eight clouds, so I mean, the average enterprise must have 80 clouds when you start throwing in all the saas. >> Yeah. >> So Cloud and specifically, multi-cloud, you guys, HPEs, always been known for open platform, whatever the customer wants to do, we'll do it. So multi-cloud becomes really important. And let's expand the definition of Cloud to include private cloud on PRM, what we call True Private Cloud in the Wikibon world, but whether it's Azure, AWS, Google, dot, dot, dot, what are you guys seeing in terms of the pressure from customers to support multi... They don't want a silo, a data protection silo for each cloud, right? >> Absolutely. So they don't want silos in general, right? So I think a couple of key things that you brought up, private cloud is very interesting for customers. Whether they're gonna go on PRM or off PRM, they absolutely want to have the experience on PRM. So what we're providing customers is the ability, through APIs and seamless integration into their existing application frameworks, the ability to move data from point A to point B to point C, which could be primary all-flash, secondary systems, cloud targets, but have that be able to be automated full API set and provide a lot of those capabilities, those user stories around data protection and re-use, directly to the developers, right, and the database admins and whoever's doing this news or DevOps area. The second piece is that, like you said, everyone's gonna have multiple clouds, and what we want to do is we want to be able to give customers an intelligent experience around that. We don't necessarily need to own all the infrastructure, right, but we need to be able to facilitate and provide the visibility of where that data's gonna land, and over time, with our capabilities that we have around InfoSight, we wanna be able to do that predictably, make recommendations, have that whole population of customers learn from each other and provide some expert analysis for our customers as to where to place workloads. >> These trends, Patrick, they're all interrelated, so they're not distinct and before we get into the hard news, I wanna kinda double down on another piece of this. So you got data, you got digital, which is data, you've got new pressures on data protection, you've got the cloud-scale, a lot of diversity. We haven't even talked about the edge. That's another, sort of, piece of it. But people wanna get more out of their data protection investment. They're kinda sick of just spending on insurance. They'd like to get more value out of it. You've mentioned DevOps before. >> Yep. >> Better access to that data, certainly compliance. Things like GDPR have heightened awareness of things that you can do with the data, not just for backup, and not even just for compliance, but actually getting value out of the data. Your thoughts on that trend? >> Yeah, so from what we see for our customers, they absolutely wanna reuse data, right? So we have a ton of solutions for our customers around very low latency, high performance optimized flash storage in 3PAR and Nimble, different capabilities there, and then being able to take that data and move it off to a hybrid flash array, for example, and then do workloads on that, is something that we're doing today with our customers, natively as well as partnering with some of our ISV ecosystem. And then sort of a couple new use cases that are coming is that I want to be able to have data providence. So I wanna share some of my data, keep that in a colo but be able to apply compute resources, whether those are VMs, whether they are functions, lambda functions, on that data. So we wanna bring the compute to the data, and that's another use case that we're enabling for our customers, and then ultimately using the Cloud as a very, very low-cost, scalable and elastic tier storage for archive and retention. >> One of the things we've been talking about in theCUBE community is you hear that Bromite data is the new oil, and somebody in the community was saying, you know what? It's actually more valuable than oil. When I have oil, I can put it in my house or I can put it my car. But data, the unique attribute of data is I can use it over and over and over again. And again, that puts more pressure on data protection. All right, let's get into some of the hard news here. You've got kind of a four-pack of news that we wanna talk about. Let's start with StoreOnce. It's a platform that you guys announced several years ago. You've been evolving it regularly. What's the StoreOnce news? >> Yes, so in the secondary storage world, we've seen the movement from PBBA, so Purpose-Built Backup Appliances, either morphing into very intelligent software that runs on commodity hardware, or an integrated appliance approach, right? So you've got a integrated DR appliance that seamlessly integrates into your environment. So what we've been doing with StoreOnce, this is our 4th generation system and it's got a lot of great attributes. It has a system, right. It's available in a rote form factor at different capacities. It's also available as a software-defined version so you can run that on PRM, you can run it off PRM. It scales up to multiple petabytes in a software-only version. So we've got a couple different use cases for it, but what I think is one of the key things is that we're providing a very integrated experience for customers who are 3PAR Nimble customers. So it allows you to essentially federate your primary all-flash storage with secondary. And then we actually provide a number of use cases to go out to the Cloud as well. Very easy to use, geared towards the application admin, very integrative. >> So it's bigger, better, faster, and you've got this integration, a confederation as you called it, across different platforms. What's the key technical enabler there? >> Yeah, so we have a really extensible platform for software that we call Recovery Manager Central. Essentially, it provides a number of different use cases and user stories around copy data management. So it's gonna allow you to take application integrated snapshots. It's gonna allow you to do that either in the application framework, so if you're a DVA and you do Arman, you could do it in there, or if you have your own custom applications, you can write to the API. So it allows you to do snapshots, full clones, it'll allow you to do DR, so one box to another similar system, it'll allow you to go from primary to secondary, it'll allow you to archive out to the Cloud, and then all of that in reverse, right? So you can pull all of that data back and it'll give you visibility across all those assets. So, the past where you, as a customer, did all this on your own, right, bought on horizontal lines? We're giving a customer, based on a set of outcomes and applications, a complete vertically-oriented solution. >> Okay, so that's the, really, second piece of hard news. >> Yeah. >> Recovery Manager Central, RMC, 6.0, right-- >> Yeah. >> Is the release that we're on? And that's copy data management essentially-- >> Absolutely. >> Is what you're talking about. It's your catalog, right, so your tech underneath that, and you're applying that now across the portfolio, right? >> Absolutely. So, we're extending that from... We've had, for the past year, that ability to do the copy data management directly from 3PAR. We're extending that to provide that for Nimble. Right, so for Nimble customers that want to use all-flash, they want to use hybrid flash arrays from Nimble, you can go to secondary storage in StoreOnce and then out to the Cloud. >> Okay, and that's what 6.0 enables-- >> Yeah, exactly. >> That Nimble piece and then out to the Cloud. Okay, third piece of news is an ecosystem announcement with Commvault. Take us through that. >> Yeah, so we understand at HPE, given the fact that we're very, very focused on hybrid Cloud and we have a lot of customers that have been our customers for a long time, none of these opportunities are greenfield, right, at the end of the day. So your customers are, they have to integrate with existing solutions, and in a lot of cases, they have some partners for data protection. So one of the things that we've done with this ecosystem is made very public our APIs and how to integrate our systems. So we're storage people, we are data management folks, we do big data, we also do infrastructure. So we know how to manage the infrastructure, move data very seamlessly between primary, secondary, and the Cloud. And what we do is, we open up those APIs in those use cases to all of our partners and our customers. So, in that, we're announcing a number of integrations with Commvault, so they're gonna be integrating with our de-duplication and compression framework, as well as being able to program to what we call Cloud Bank, right? So, we'll be able to, in effect, integrate with Commvault with our primary storage, be able to do rapid recovery from StoreOnce in a number of backup use cases, and then being able to go out to the cloud, all managed through customers' Commvault interface. >> All right, so if I hear you correctly, you've just gotta double click on the Commvault integration. It's not just a go-to-market setup. It's deeper engineering and integration that you guys are doing. >> Absolutely. >> Okay, great. And then, of course the fourth piece is around, so your bases are loaded here, the fourth piece is around the Cloud economics, Cloud pricing model. Your GreenLake model, the utility pricing has gotten a lot of traction. When we're at HPE Discover, customers talking about it, you guys have been leaders there. Talk about GreenLake and how that model fits into this. >> Yeah, so, in the technology talk track we talk about, essentially, how to make this simple and how to make it scalable. At the end of the day, on the buying pattern side, customers expect elasticity, right? So, what we're providing for our customers is when they want to do either a specific integration or implementation of one of those components from a technology perspective, we can provide that. If they're doing a complete re-architecture and want to understand how I can essentially use secondary storage better and I wanna take advantage of all that data that I have sitting in there, I can provide that whole experience to customers as a service, right? So, the primary storage, your secondary storage, the Cloud capacity, even some of the ISV partner software that we provide, I can take that as an entire, vetted solution, with reference architectures and the expertise to implement, and I can give that to a customer in an OpEx as a service elastic purchasing model. And that is very unique for HPE and that's what we've gone to market with GreenLake, and we're gonna be providing more solutions like that, but in this case, we're announcing the fact that you can buy that whole experience, backup as a service, data protection as a service, through GreenLake from HPE. >> So how does that work, Patrick, practically speaking? A customer will, what, commit to some level of capacity, let's say, as an example, and then HPE will put in some extra headroom if, in fact, that's needed, you maybe sit down with the customer and do some kind of capacity planning, or how does that actually work, practically speaking? >> Yeah, absolutely. So we work with customers on the architecture, right, up front. So we have a set of vetted architectures. We try to avoid snowflakes, right, at the end of the day. We want to talk to customers around outcomes. So if a customer is trying to reach outcome XYZ, we come with a recommendation on how to do that. And what we can do is, we don't have very high up-front commitments and it's very elastic in the way that we approach the purchasing experience. So we're able to fit those modules in. And then we've made some number of acquisitions over the last couple years, right? So, on the advisory side, we have Cloud Technology Partners. We come in and talk about how do you do a hybrid cloud backup as a service, right? So we can advise customers on how to do that and build that into the experience. We acquired CloudCruiser, right? So we have the billing and the monitoring and everything that gets very, very granular on how you use that service, and that goes into how we bill customers on a per-metric usage format. And so we're able to package all of that up and we have, this is a kind of a little-known fact, very, very high NPS score for HPE financial services. Right, so the combination of our point next services, advisory, financial services, really puts a lot of meat behind GreenLake as a really good customer experience around elasticity. >> Okay, now all this stuff is gonna be available calendar Q4 of 2018, correct? >> Correct. >> Okay, so if you've seen videos like this before, we like to talk about what it is, how it works, and then we like to bring it home with the business impact. So thinking about these four announcements, and you can drill deeper on any one that you like, but I'd like to start, at least, holistically, what's the business impact of all of this? Obviously, you've got Cloud, we talked about some of the trends up front, but what are you guys telling customers is the real ROI? >> So, I think the big ROI is it moves secondary storage from a TCO conversation to an ROI conversation. Right, so instead of selling customers a solution where you're gonna have data that sits there waiting for something to happen, I'm giving customers a solution that's consumed as a service to be able to mine and utilize that secondary data, right? Whether it's for simple tasks like patch verification, application rollouts, things like that, and actually lowering the cost of your primary storage in doing that, which is usually pretty expensive from a storage perspective. I'm also helping customers save time, right? By providing these integrated experiences from primary to secondary to Cloud and making that automatic, I do help customers save quite a bit in OpEx from an operator perspective. And they can take those resources and move them on to higher impact projects like DevOps, CloudOps, things of that nature. That's a big impact from a customer perspective. >> So there's a CapEx to OpEx move for those customers that want to take advantage of GreenLake. [Patrick] Yep. >> So certain CFOs will like that story. But I think the other piece that, to me anyway, is most important is, especially in this world of digital transformation, I know it's a buzzword, but it's real. When you go to talk to people, they don't wanna do the heavy lifting of infrastructure management, the day-to-day infrastructure management. A lot of mid-size customers, they just don't have the resources to do it anymore. >> Correct. >> And they're under such pressure to digitize, every company wants to become a software company. Benioff talks about that, Satya Nadella talks about that, Antonio talks about digital transformation. And so it's on CEOs' minds. They don't want to be paying people for these mundane tasks. They really wannna shift them to these digital transformation initiatives and drive more business value. >> Absolutely. So you said it best, right, we wanna drive the customer experience to focusing on high-value things that'll enable their digital transformation. So, as a vision, what we're gonna keep on providing, and you've seen that with InfoSight on Nimble, InfoSight for 3PAR, and our vision around AI for the data center, these tasks around data protection, they're repeatable tasks, how to protect data, how to move data, how to mine that data. So if we can provide recommendations and some predictive analytics and experiences to the customers around this, and essentially abstract that and just have the customers focus on defining their SLA, and we're worried about delivering that SLA, then that's a huge win for us and our customers. And that's our vision, that's what we're gonna be providing them. >> Yeah, automation is the key. You've got some tools in the toolkit to help do that and it's just gonna escalate from here. It feels like we're on the early part of the S-curve and it's just gonna really spike. >> Absolutely. >> All right, Patrick. Hey, thanks for coming in and taking us through this news, and congratulations on getting this stuff done and we'll be watching the marketplace. Thank you. >> Great. Kudos to the team, great announcement, and we look forward to working with you guys again. >> All right, thanks for watching, everybody. We'll see you next time. This is Dave Vellante on theCUBE. (gentle music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE! Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hi everybody, welcome to the special CUBE conversation on secondary storage and data protection, which is one of the hottest topics in the business right now. Cloud, multi-cloud, bringing the Cloud experience to wherever your data lives and protecting that data driven by digital transformation. We're gonna talk about that with Patrick Osborne, the Vice President and General Manager for big data and secondary storage at HPE, good friend and CUBE alum. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> Great, thanks for having us. >> So let's start with some of those trends that I mentioned. I think, let's start with digital transformation. It's a big buzzword in the industry but it's real. I travel around, I talk to customers all the time, everybody's trying to get digital transformation right. And digital means data, data needs to be protected in new ways now, and so when we trickle down into your world, data protection, what are you seeing in terms of the impact of digital and digital transformation on data protection? >> Absolutely, great question. So the winds of change in secondary storage are blowing pretty hard right now. I think there's a couple different things that are driving that conversation. A, the specialization of people with specific backup teams, right, that's moving away, right. You're moving away from general storage administration and specialized teams to people focusing a lot of those resources now on Cloud Ops team, DevOps team, application development. So they want that activity of data protection to be automated and invisible. Like you said before, in terms of being able to re-use that data, the old days of essentially having a primary dataset and then pushing it off to some type of secondary storage which just sits there over time, is not something that customers want anymore. >> Right. >> They wanna be able to use that data, they wanna be able to generate copies of that, do test and dev, gain insight from that, being able to move that to the Cloud, for example, to be able to burst out there or do it for DR activities. So I think there's a lot of things that are happening when it comes to data that are certainly changing the requirements and expectations around secondary storage. >> So the piece I want to bring to the conversation is Cloud and I saw a stat recently that the average company, the average enterprise has, like, eight clouds, and I was thinking, sheesh, small company like ours has eight clouds, so I mean, the average enterprise must have 80 clouds when you start throwing in all the sass. >> Yeah. >> So Cloud and specifically, multi-cloud, you guys, HPEs, always been known for open platform, whatever the customer wants to do, we'll do it. So multi-cloud becomes really important. And let's expand the definition of Cloud to include private cloud on PRM, what we call True Private Cloud in the Wikibon world, but whether it's Azure, AWS, Google, dot, dot, dot, what are you guys seeing in terms of the pressure from customers to support multi... They don't want a silo, a data protection silo for each cloud, right? >> Absolutely. So they don't want silos in general, right? So I think a couple of key things that you brought up, private cloud is very interesting for customers. Whether they're gonna go on PRM or off PRM, they absolutely want to have the experience on PRM. So what we're providing customers is the ability, through APIs and seamless integration into their existing application frameworks, the ability to move data from point A to point B to point C, which could be primary all-flash, secondary systems, cloud targets, but have that be able to be automated full API set and provide a lot of those capabilities, those user stories around data protection and re-use, directly to the developers, right, and the database admins and whoever's doing this news or DevOps area. The second piece is that, like you said, everyone's gonna have multiple clouds, and what we want to do is we want to be able to give customers an intelligent experience around that. We don't necessarily need to own all the infrastructure, right, but we need to be able to facilitate and provide the visibility of where that data's gonna land, and over time, with our capabilities that we have around InfoSight, we wanna be able to do that predictably, make recommendations, have that whole population of customers learn from each other and provide some expert analysis for our customers as to where to place workloads. >> These trends, Patrick, they're all interrelated, so they're not distinct and before we get into the hard news, I wanna kinda double down on another piece of this. So you got data, you got digital, which is data, you've got new pressures on data protection, you've got the cloud-scale, a lot of diversity. We haven't even talked about the edge. That's another, sort of, piece of it. But people wanna get more out of their data protection investment. They're kinda sick of just spending on insurance. They'd like to get more value out of it. You've mentioned DevOps before. >> Yep. >> Better access to that data, certainly compliance. Things like GDPR have heightened awareness of things that you can do with the data, not just for backup, and not even just for compliance, but actually getting value out of the data. Your thoughts on that trend? >> Yeah, so from what we see for our customers, they absolutely wanna reuse data, right? So we have a ton of solutions for our customers around very low latency, high performance optimized flash storage in 3PAR and Nimble, different capabilities there, and then being able to take that data and move it off to a hybrid flash array, for example, and then do workloads on that, is something that we're doing today with our customers, natively as well as partnering with some of our ISV ecosystem. And then sort of a couple new use cases that are coming is that I want to be able to have data providence. So I wanna share some of my data, keep that in a colo but be able to apply compute resources, whether those are VMs, whether they are functions, lambda functions, on that data. So we wanna bring the compute to the data, and that's another use case that we're enabling for our customers, and then ultimately using the Cloud as a very, very low-cost, scalable and elastic tier storage for archive and retention. >> One of the things we've been talking about in theCUBE community is you hear that Bromite data is the new oil, and somebody in the community was saying, you know what? It's actually more valuable than oil. When I have oil, I can put it in my house or I can put it my car. But data, the unique attribute of data is I can use it over and over and over again. And again, that puts more pressure on data protection. All right, let's get into some of the hard news here. You've got kind of a four-pack of news that we wanna talk about. Let's start with StoreOnce. It's a platform that you guys announced several years ago. You've been evolving it regularly. What's the StoreOnce news? >> Yes, so in the secondary storage world, we've seen the movement from PBBA, so Purpose-Built Backup Appliances, either morphing into very intelligent software that runs on commodity hardware, or an integrated appliance approach, right? So you've got a integrated DR appliance that seamlessly integrates into your environment. So what we've been doing with StoreOnce, this is our 4th generation system and it's got a lot of great attributes. It has a system, right. It's available in a rote form factor at different capacities. It's also available as a software-defined version so you can run that on PRM, you can run it off PRM. It scales up to multiple petabytes in a software-only version. So we've got a couple different use cases for it, but what I think is one of the key things is that we're providing a very integrated experience for customers who are 3PAR Nimble customers. So it allows you to essentially federate your primary all-flash storage with secondary. And then we actually provide a number of use cases to go out to the Cloud as well. Very easy to use, geared towards the application admin, very integrative. >> So it's bigger, better, faster, and you've got this integration, a confederation as you called it, across different platforms. What's the key technical enabler there? >> Yeah, so we have a really extensible platform for software that we call Recovery Manager Central. Essentially, it provides a number of different use cases and user stories around copy data management. So it's gonna allow you to take application integrated snapshots. It's gonna allow you to do that either in the application framework, so if you're a DVA and you do Arman, you could do it in there, or if you have your own custom applications, you can write to the API. So it allows you to do snapshots, full clones, it'll allow you to do DR, so one box to another similar system, it'll allow you to go from primary to secondary, it'll allow you to archive out to the Cloud, and then all of that in reverse, right? So you can pull all of that data back and it'll give you visibility across all those assets. So, the past where you, as a customer, did all this on your own, right, bought on horizontal lines? We're giving a customer, based on a set of outcomes and applications, a complete vertically-oriented solution. >> Okay, so that's the, really, second piece of hard news. >> Yeah. >> Recovery Manager Central, RMC, 6.0, right-- >> Yeah. >> Is the release that we're on? And that's copy data management essentially-- >> Absolutely. >> Is what you're talking about. It's your catalog, right, so your tech underneath that, and you're applying that now across the portfolio, right? >> Absolutely. So, we're extending that from... We've had, for the past year, that ability to do the copy data management directly from 3PAR. We're extending that to provide that for Nimble. Right, so for Nimble customers that want to use all-flash, they want to use hybrid flash arrays from Nimble, you can go to secondary storage in StoreOnce and then out to the Cloud. >> Okay, and that's what 6.0 enables-- >> Yeah, exactly. >> That Nimble piece and then out to the Cloud. Okay, third piece of news is an ecosystem announcement with Commvault. Take us through that. >> Yeah, so we understand at HPE, given the fact that we're very, very focused on hybrid Cloud and we have a lot of customers that have been our customers for a long time, none of these opportunities are greenfield, right, at the end of the day. So your customers are, they have to integrate with existing solutions, and in a lot of cases, they have some partners for data protection. So one of the things that we've done with this ecosystem is made very public our APIs and how to integrate our systems. So we're storage people, we are data management folks, we do big data, we also do infrastructure. So we know how to manage the infrastructure, move data very seamlessly between primary, secondary, and the Cloud. And what we do is, we open up those APIs in those use cases to all of our partners and our customers. So, in that, we're announcing a number of integrations with Commvault, so they're gonna be integrating with our de-duplication and compression framework, as well as being able to program to what we call Cloud Bank, right? So, we'll be able to, in effect, integrate with Commvault with our primary storage, be able to do rapid recovery from StoreOnce in a number of backup use cases, and then being able to go out to the cloud, all managed through customers' Commvault interface. >> All right, so if I hear you correctly, you've just gotta double click on the Commvault integration. It's not just a go-to-market setup. It's deeper engineering and integration that you guys are doing. >> Absolutely. >> Okay, great. And then, of course the fourth piece is around, so your bases are loaded here, the fourth piece is around the Cloud economics, Cloud pricing model. Your GreenLake model, the utility pricing has gotten a lot of traction. When we're at HPE Discover, customers talking about it, you guys have been leaders there. Talk about GreenLake and how that model fits into this. >> Yeah, so, in the technology talk track we talk about, essentially, how to make this simple and how to make it scalable. At the end of the day, on the buying pattern side, customers expect elasticity, right? So, what we're providing for our customers is when they want to do either a specific integration or implementation of one of those components from a technology perspective, we can provide that. If they're doing a complete re-architecture and want to understand how I can essentially use secondary storage better and I wanna take advantage of all that data that I have sitting in there, I can provide that whole experience to customers as a service, right? So, the primary storage, your secondary storage, the Cloud capacity, even some of the ISV partner software that we provide, I can take that as an entire, vetted solution, with reference architectures and the expertise to implement, and I can give that to a customer in an OpEx as a service elastic purchasing model. And that is very unique for HPE and that's what we've gone to market with GreenLake, and we're gonna be providing more solutions like that, but in this case, we're announcing the fact that you can buy that whole experience, backup as a service, data protection as a service, through GreenLake from HPE. >> So how does that work, Patrick, practically speaking? A customer will, what, commit to some level of capacity, let's say, as an example, and then HPE will put in some extra headroom if, in fact, that's needed, you maybe sit down with the customer and do some kind of capacity planning, or how does that actually work, practically speaking? >> Yeah, absolutely. So we work with customers on the architecture, right, up front. So we have a set of vetted architectures. We try to avoid snowflakes, right, at the end of the day. We want to talk to customers around outcomes. So if a customer is trying to reach outcome XYZ, we come with a recommendation on how to do that. And what we can do is, we don't have very high up-front commitments and it's very elastic in the way that we approach the purchasing experience. So we're able to fit those modules in. And then we've made some number of acquisitions over the last couple years, right? So, on the advisory side, we have Cloud Technology Partners. We come in and talk about how do you do a hybrid cloud backup as a service, right? So we can advise customers on how to do that and build that into the experience. We acquired CloudCruiser, right? So we have the billing and the monitoring and everything that gets very, very granular on how you use that service, and that goes into how we bill customers on a per-metric usage format. And so we're able to package all of that up and we have, this is a kind of a little-known fact, very, very high NPS score for HPE financial services. Right, so the combination of our point next services, advisory, financial services, really puts a lot of meat behind GreenLake as a really good customer experience around elasticity. >> Okay, now all this stuff is gonna be available calendar Q4 of 2018, correct? >> Correct. >> Okay, so if you've seen videos like this before, we like to talk about what it is, how it works, and then we like to bring it home with the business impact. So thinking about these four announcements, and you can drill deeper on any one that you like, but I'd like to start, at least, holistically, what's the business impact of all of this? Obviously, you've got Cloud, we talked about some of the trends up front, but what are you guys telling customers is the real ROI? >> So, I think the big ROI is it moves secondary storage from a TCO conversation to an ROI conversation. Right, so instead of selling customers a solution where you're gonna have data that sits there waiting for something to happen, I'm giving customers a solution that's consumed as a service to be able to mine and utilize that secondary data, right? Whether it's for simple tasks like patch verification, application rollouts, things like that, and actually lowering the cost of your primary storage in doing that, which is usually pretty expensive from a storage perspective. I'm also helping customers save time, right? By providing these integrated experiences from primary to secondary to Cloud and making that automatic, I do help customers save quite a bit in OpEx from an operator perspective. And they can take those resources and move them on to higher impact projects like DevOps, CloudOps, things of that nature. That's a big impact from a customer perspective. >> So there's a CapEx to OpEx move for those customers that want to take advantage of GreenLake. [Patrick] Yep. >> So certain CFOs will like that story. But I think the other piece that, to me anyway, is most important is, especially in this world of digital transformation, I know it's a buzzword, but it's real. When you go to talk to people, they don't wanna do the heavy lifting of infrastructure management, the day-to-day infrastructure management. A lot of mid-size customers, they just don't have the resources to do it anymore. >> Correct. >> And they're under such pressure to digitize, every company wants to become a software company. Benioff talks about that, Satya Nadella talks about that, Antonio talks about digital transformation. And so it's on CEOs' minds. They don't want to be paying people for these mundane tasks. They really wannna shift them to these digital transformation initiatives and drive more business value. >> Absolutely. So you said it best, right, we wanna drive the customer experience to focusing on high-value things that'll enable their digital transformation. So, as a vision, what we're gonna keep on providing, and you've seen that with InfoSight on Nimble, InfoSight for 3PAR, and our vision around AI for the data center, these tasks around data protection, they're repeatable tasks, how to protect data, how to move data, how to mine that data. So if we can provide recommendations and some predictive analytics and experiences to the customers around this, and essentially abstract that and just have the customers focus on defining their SLA, and we're worried about delivering that SLA, then that's a huge win for us and our customers. And that's our vision, that's what we're gonna be providing them. >> Yeah, automation is the key. You've got some tools in the toolkit to help do that and it's just gonna escalate from here. It feels like we're on the early part of the S-curve and it's just gonna really spike. >> Absolutely. >> All right, Patrick. Hey, thanks for coming in and taking us through this news, and congratulations on getting this stuff done and we'll be watching the marketplace. Thank you. >> Great. Kudos to the team, great announcement, and we look forward to working with you guys again. >> All right, thanks for watching, everybody. We'll see you next time. This is Dave Vellante on theCUBE. (gentle music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Google Cloud Next 2018, brought to you by Google Cloud, and it's Ecosystem Partners. >> Hello everyone, and welcome back theCUBE live coverage, here in San Francisco, the Moscone South. I'm John Furrier with the SiliconANGLE on theCube, with my cohost Dave Vellante, for next three days. Day one, wrap up of Google Next here. Google Cloud's premiere event. This is a different Google. It's a world changing event, in my opinion, of Google. Dave, I want to analyze day one as we put it in the books. Let's analyze and let's look at it, and critique and observe the moves that Google's making vis-à-vis the competition. And Diane Greene, who's on theCUBE earlier, great guest. Kind of in her comfort zone here on theCUBE because she talks, she's an engineer, she's super smart. She thinks free thoughts but she really has a good chessboard view of the landscape. My big walk away today is that she's got full command of what she wants to do, but she's in an uncomfortable position that I think she's not used to. And that is at VMworld, at VMware, she didn't have competition. First mover, changes the market. Certainly, winning at all fronts when VMware was starting. And they morphed over and then you know the history of Vmware: sold to EMC and then now the rest is history. But they really changed the category. They created a category. And were very successful in IT with virtual machines. She's got competition in Cloud. She's playing from behind. She's got the big guns. She's going to bring out the howitzers, you know? I mean she's got Spanner, BigQuery, all the Scale, Kubernetes. Which the internal name is Borg which has been running on the Google infrastructure. Provisioning services on all their applications with billions and billions of users. If she can translate that, that's key. So that's one observation. And the second one is that Google is taking a data centric view. Their competitive advantage is dealing with data. And if you look at everything that they're doing from TensorFlow for AI and all the themes here. They are positioning Google as with a place to bring your data. Okay, that is clear to me as a stake in the ground. With the large scale technical infrastructure they're going to roll out with SREs. Those two things to me are the front and center major power moves that they're making. The rest wrapping around it is Kubernetes, Istio, a service oriented architecture managing services not products and providing large scale value to their customers that don't want to be Google. They want to be like Google in the benefits of Scale, which comes in automation. And I think I head room for Google Cloud is IT operations. So that's kind of like my take. I think day one, the people we've had on from Google sharp as nails, no enterprise tech. Jennifer Lin, Deepti, Diane Greene. The list goes on and on. What's your take? >> Well so, first of all with what's goin' on here and Diane Greene, the game she's playing now. Completely different obviously than VMware. Where it was all about cutting costs. Vmware, when you think about it, sold for $635 million to EMC way back when. So, it was just a little scratch compared to what we're talkin' about now. She didn't have the resources. The IT business, you remember Nick Carr's famous piece on HBR 'Does IT Matter?' That was the sentiment back then. IT, waste of time, undifferentiated. Just cut costs. Cut, cut, cut. Perfect for Vmware. The game they're playing now is totally different. As you said they were late to the enterprise. Ironically, late to the "enterprise cloud" >> They got competition >> They got competition. Obviously the two big ones Microsoft and, of course, AWS. But so what might take away here is: the differentiation. So they're not panicking. They're obviously playing the open source card. Kubernetes, TensorFlow, etc. Giving back to the community. Data, they're definitely going to lead in AI and machine intelligence. No question about it. So they're going to play that card. The database, we had the folks from Cloud Spanner on today. Amazing technology. Where as you think about it, they're talkin' about a transaction-oriented database. We heard a customer today, talking about we replaced Oracle. Right? We got rid of Oracle, now-- >> When was the last time you heard that? Not many times. >> It's not often. No, and they're only $120 million company. But to her point was it's game changing for us. It's a 10-X value proposition. And we're getting the same quality that we're getting out of our Oracle databases. They're leading with apps on Google Cloud. Twitter is there. Spotify. They obviously have a lot of history. So that's part of it, part to focus. We on SiliconANGLE.com, there's a great article by Mark Albertson. He talked about the-- he compared the partner Ecosystem. Google's only about 13,000 partners. Amazon 100,000. Azure 70,000. So a long way to go there. Serverless, this is they're catching up on serverless. But they're still behind. Kind of still in Beta, right? &But serverless, John, I'd love your take on this. Can be as profound as virtualization was. Last to developer love. They've got juice with developers. And then the technology. Massive scale. We heard things about Spanner, the relational semantics. BigQuery, Kubernetes, TensorFlow. They have this automate or die culture. You talked about this in your article. That's a bottoms-up engineering culture. Much different than the traditional enterprise top-down "Go take that hill! "You're going to get shot at but take that hill by midnight" >> It's true. Well I mean, first of all, I think developers are in charge. I think one of the things that's happening is that it's clear is that every company, whether you're a start up or large enterprise, has to come to grips with if they're going to be a software company. And that's easy to say "Oh, that's easy. You just hire some software developers" No, it's not that easy. One, there's software developers coming out. But the way IT was built and the way people were buying IT, it's just not compatible with what software developers want to do. They want to work in a company that's actually building software. They don't want to be servicing infrastructure. So, saying that everyone's going to be a software company is one thing. That's true. And so that's the challenge. And I think Google has an opportunity. Just like Oedipus has been dominating with service-oriented approach managing services. By creating building blocks that create large Scale that allow people to write software easily. And I think that's the keyword. How do I make things common interface. You asked Diane Greene about common primitives. They're going to do the foundational work needed. It might be slower. But at a core primitive, they'll do that work. Because it'll make everything a faster. This is a different mind shift. So again, you also asked one of the guests, I forget who it was, IT moves at a very slow speeds. It's like a caravan-- >> You said glacial >> But yeah, well that used to be. But they have to move faster. So the challenge is: how do you blend the speed of technology, specifically on how modern software is being written, when you have Cloud Scale opportunities? Because this is not a cost cutting environment. People want to press the gas, not the brake. So you have a flywheel developing in technology, where if you are right on a business model observation, where you can create differentiation for a business, this is now the Cloud's customers. You know, you're a bank, you're a financial institution, you're manufacturing, you're a media company. If you can see an opportunity to create a competitive advantage, the Cloud is going to get you there really fast. So, I'm not too hung up on who has the better serverless. I look at it like a car. I want to drive the car. I always want to make sure the engine doesn't fall out or tires don't break. But so you got to look at it, this is a whole 'nother world. If you're not in the Cloud, you're basically on horse and buggy. So yeah, you're not going to have to buy hay. You don't have to deal with horses and clean up all the horse crap on the street. I mean all of that goes away. So IT, buying IT, is like horse and buggy. Cloud is like the sports car. And the question is 'Do I need air-conditioning?' 'Do I need power windows?' This is a whole new view. And people just want to get the job done. So this is about business. Future work. Making money. >> So-- >> And technology is going to facilitate that. So I think the Cloud game is going to get different very fast. >> Well I want to pick up on a couple things you said. Software, every company's becoming a software company. Take Andreessen, said 'Software is eating the world' If software's eating the world, data is eating software. So you've got to become a data company, as well as, a software company. And data has to be at the core of your business in order to compete. And data is not at the core of most company's businesses. So how do they close that gap? >> Yeah >> You've talked about the innovation sandwich. Cloud, data, and AI are sort of the cocktail that's going to drive innovation in the future. So if data is not at the core of your company, how are you going to close that AI gap? Well the way you're going to close is you're going to buy AI from companies like Google and Amazon and others. So that's one point. >> Yeah, and if you don't have an innovation sandwich, if you don't have the data, it's a wish sandwich. You wish you had some meat. >> You wish you had it right (Laughing) Wish I had some meat. You know the other thing is, you mentioned Diane Greene in her keynotes said "We provide consistency "with a common core set of primitives" And I asked her about that because it's really different than what Amazon does. So Amazon, if you think about Amazon data pipeline, and we know because were customers. We use DynamoDB, we use S3, we use all these different services in the data pipeline. Well, each of those has a different API. And you got to learn that world. What Google's doing, they're just simplifying that with a common set of primitives. Now, Diane mentioned, she said there's a trade off. It takes us longer to get to market if-- >> Yeah, but the problem is, here's the problem. Multicloud is a real dynamic. So even though they have a common set of primitives, if you go to Azure or AWS you still have different primitives over there. So the world of Multicloud isn't as simple as saying 'moving workloads' yet. So although you're startin' to see good signs within Google to say 'Oh, that's on prim, that's in the Cloud' 'Okay that's hybrid' within Google. The question is when I don't have to hire an IT staff to manage my deployments on Azure or my deployments on AWS. That's a whole different world. You still got to learn skill sets on those other-- >> That's true >> On other Clouds >> But as your pipeline, as your data pipeline grows and gets more and more complex, you've got to have skill sets that grow. And that's fine. But then it's really hard to predict where I should put data sometimes and what. Until you get the bill at the end of the month and you go "Oh I should've put that in S3 instead of Aurora" Or whatever it is. And so Google is trying to simplify that and solve that problem. Just a different philosophy. Stu Miniman asked Andy Jassy about this, and his answer on theCUBE was 'Look we want to have fine grain control over those primitives in case the market changes. We can make the change and it doesn't affect all the other APIs we have' So that was the trade off that they made. Number one. Number two is that we can get to market faster. And Diane admitted it slows us down but it simplifies things. Different philosophy. Which comes back to differentiation. If you're going to win in the enterprise you have to believe. I get the sense that these guys believe. >> Well and I think there's a belief but as an architectural decision, Amazon and Google are completely different animals. If you look at Amazon and you look at some of the decisions they make. Their client base is significantly larger. They've been in business longer. The sets of services they have dwarf Google. Google is like on the bar chart Andy Jassy puts up, it's like here, and then everyone else is down here, and Google's down here. >> Yeah and the customer references, I mean, it's just off the charts >> So Google is doing, they're picking their spots to compete in. But they're doing it in a very smart engineering way. They can bring out the big guns. And this is what I would do. I love this strategy. You got hardened large scale technology that's been used internally and you're not trying to peddle that to customers. You're tweaking it and making it consumable. Bigtable, BigQuery, Spanner. This is tech. Kubernetes. This is Google essentially being smart. Consuming the tech is not necessarily shoving it down someone's throat. Amazon, on the other hand, has more of a composability side. And some people will use some services on Amazon and not others. I wouldn't judge that right now. It's too early to tell. But these are philosophy decisions. We'll see how the bet pans out. That's a little bit longer term. >> I want to ask you about the Cisco deal. It seems like a match made in heaven. And I want to talk specifically about some of the enterprise guys, particularly Dell, Cisco, and HPE. So you got Dell, with VMware, in bed with Amazon in a big way. We were just down at DC last month, we heard all about that. And we're going to hear more about it this fall at re:Invent. Cisco today does a deal with Google. Perfect match, right? Cisco needs a cloud, Google needs an enterprise partner. Boom. Where's that leave HP? HP's got no cloud. All right, and are they trying to align? I guess Azure, right? >> Google's ascension-- >> Is that where they go? They fall to Azure? >> Well that's what habit is. That's the relationship. The Wintel. >> Right >> But back up with HP for a second. The ascension of Google Cloud into the upper echelon of players will hurt a few people. One of them's obviously Oracle, right? And they've mentioned Oracle and the Cloud Spanner thing. So I think Oracle will be flat-footed by, if Google Cloud continues the ascension. HPE has to rethink, and they kind of look bad on this, because they should be partnering with Google Cloud because they have no Cloud themselves. And the same with Dell. If I'm Dell and HP, I got to get out of the ITOps decimation that's coming. Because IT operations and the manageability piece is going to absolutely be decimated in the next five years. If you're in the ITOps business or IT management, ITOM, ITIL, it's going to get crushed. It's going to get absolutely decimated. It's going to get vaporized. The value is going to be shifted to another part of the stack. And if you're not looking at that if your HPE, you could essentially get flat-footed and get crushed. So HP's got to be thinking differently. But what Google and Amazon have, in my opinion, and you could even stretch and say Alibaba if you want a gateway to China, is that what the Wintel relationship of Windows and Intel back in the 80s and 90s that created massive innovations So I see a similar dynamic going on now, where the Cloud players, we call them Cloud native, Amazon and Google for instance, are creating that new dynamic. I didn't mention Microsoft because I don't consider them yet in the formal position to be truly enabling the kind of value that Google and Amazon will value because-- >> Really? Why not? >> Because of the tech. Well and I think Amazon is more, I mean Microsoft is more of a compatibility mode (Talking over each Other) I run Microsoft. I've got a single server. I've got Office. Azure's got good enough, I'm not really looking for 10-X improvement. So I think a lot of Microsoft's success is just holding the line. And the growth and the stock has been a function of the operating model of Cloud. And we'll see what they do at their show. But I think Microsoft has got to up their game a bit. Now they're not mailing it in. They're doing a good job. But I just think that Google and Amazon are stronger Cloud native players straight up on paper, right? And if you look up their capability. So the HPEs and the Ecosystems have to figure out who's the new partner that's going to make the market. And rising tide will float all boats. So to me, if I am at HP I'm thinking to myself "Okay, I got to manage services. "I better get out in front of the next wave "or I'm driftwood" >> Well Oracle is an interesting case too. You mentioned Oracle. And somebody said to me today 'Oracle they're really hurting' And I'm like most companies would love to be hurting that badly but-- >> Oracles not hurting >> Their strategy of same-same but it's the same Oracle stack brought into the Cloud. They're sending a message to the customers 'Look you don't have to go to another Cloud. 'We've got you covered. We're investing in R&D', which they do by the way. But it was really interesting to hear from the Cloud Spanner customer today that they got a 10-X value, 10-X reduction in costs, and a 10-X capability of scaling relative to Oracle that was powerful to hear that. >> There's no doubt in my mind. Oracle's not hurting. Oracle's got thousands and thousands of customers that do hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. And categories that people would love to have. The question on Oracle is the price pressure is an innovator's dilemma because there's no doubt that Oracle could just snap a few fingers and replicate the kind of deliverables that people are offering. The question is can they get the premium that they're used to getting. One. Number two, if everyone's a software company, are they truly delivering the value that's expected. To be a software company, to be competitive, not to make the lights run-- >> To enable >> To enable competitive-- (Talking over each other) Competitive advantage at a level, that's to me, going to be the real test of how Cloud morphs. And I question that you got to be agile and have a real top line revenue numbers where using technology at a cost benefit ratio that drives value-- >> But with Oracle-- >> If Oracle can get there then that's what we'll see >> The reason why they'll continue to win is because they move at the speed of the CIO. The CIO, and they'll say all the right things: AI-infused, block chain, and machine learning, and all that stuff. And the CIOs will eat it up because it's a safe bet. >> Well, I want to get your thoughts because I talked about this a couple years ago. Last year we started harping on it. We got it more into theCUBE conversation around Cloud being horizontally scalable yet at the top of the stack you've got vertical differentiation. That's great for data. Diane Greene in her key notes said that the vertical focus with engineering resources tied to it it's a key part of their strategy. Highlighted healthcare was their first vertical. Talked about National Institute of Health deal-- >> Retail >> NGOs, financial service, manufacturing, transportation, gaming and media. You got Fortnight on there, a customer in both Clouds. Start ups and retail. >> Yeah he had the target cities >> Vertical strategy is kind of an old enterprise play book TABE. Is that a viable one? Because now with the kind of data, if you got the data sandwich, maybe specialism and verticals can Scale. Your thoughts? >> I'll tell you why it is. I'll tell you why it's viable. Because of digital. So for years, these vertical stacks have been hardened. And the expertise and the business process and the knowledge within that vertical industry, retail, transportation, financial services, etc., has been hardened. But with digital, you're seeing it all over the place. Amazon getting into content. Apple getting into content. Amazon getting into groceries. Google getting into healthcare. So digital allows you to not only disrupt horizontally at the technology layer, but also vertically within industries. I think it's a very powerful disruption agenda. >> Analytics seems to be the killer app. That's the theme here: data. Maybe take it to the next step. That's where the specialism is. That's where the value's created. Why not have vertical specialty? >> No and >> Makes a lot of sense >> And it's a different spin. It's not the traditional-- >> Stack >> Sort of hire a bunch of people with that knowledge in that stack. No, it's really innovate and change the game and change the business model. I love it. >> That was a great surprise to me. Dave, great kicking off day one here this morning. Ending day one here with this wrap up. We got three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Go to siliconANGLE.com. We've got a great Cloud special Rob Hof, veteran chief of the team. Mark Albertson, and the rest of the crew, put some great stories together. Go to theCUBE.net and check out the video coverage there. That's where we're going to be live. And of course WIKIBAN.com for the analyst coverage from Peter Burris and his team. Check that out. Of course theCUBE here. Day one. Thanks for watching. See you tomorrow

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering DockerCon '18, brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, we are live at DockerCon 2018 on a stunning day in San Francisco at Moscone West. I'm Lisa Martin with John Troyer and we're excited to welcome two new folks to theCUBE from Skytap. We've got Lucas Welch, the senior director of communications and Hamish Hill, technical product marketing manager. Hey, guys. >> Great to be here, thanks for having us. >> And thanks for adding a lot of color, Lucas, to our set. >> Well, I just wanted to bring enough flair that you could realize I might have something interesting to say. >> Awesome, so speaking of interesting things, tell us about Skytap, what do you guys do, who are you, where are you based? >> Great, so Skytap. Founded in 2006, so relatively old by start-up standards but it's allowed us to learn a lot about where clouded option has been going. And what we've seen is there really is an overlooked challenge that enterprises are facing today, right? So, cloud native development, growing rapidly, gonna continue to develop, but what do you do with all your old stuff, your existing applications? And so Skytap is a cloud purpose-built for modernizing those traditional applications and we do that through a process we call IPA, although we don't advocate that you drink on the job. It's Infrastructure, Process, and Architecture. And the idea is to really get yourself to true modernization and making the most of cloud, and containers, and all of the modern technologies we can see on the show floor behind us, you first need to modernize the infrastructure, get yourself out of the data center. From there, in eliminating that barrier, you're gonna be able to modernize the processes. How do you develop, how do you change your applications? And by getting better in that regard, adopting things like DevOps and agile methodologies, finally you can start to make changes to the application themselves. So, in short order, we are the cloud for modernizing traditional applications and we like to see ourselves as complementary to the folks at AWS behind us and others who are best for that cloud native web scale development of new applications. >> Great conversation this morning at the Key Note about modernizing applications. I think it's on everybody's mind because the world does not start fresh and new every day, right? We all are working with things that we've been carrying, for some cases, for years and decades. So Docker is talking about, in fact we modernized a .NET application, I think, this morning so they showed a little bit of a demo with that and kubernetes. Can you talk a little bit about how you work with Docker and, you know, some of the challenges that you work with in terms of modernizing applications? >> Yeah, Docker has a great framework with what they have with their MTA. Actually, our VP of Product, Dan Jones, presented yesterday on making modernization magical and really looking at how Skytap complements what Docker has with their MTA framework. And I think Skytap provides, with our IPA approach, a great platform for enterprises to execute the Docker MTA approach and beyond that, sort of what Skytap provides is the abilities, sort of, to move out of the data center and get away from the hardware side of things, and start to leverage some of the scale that you can get out of the cloud. >> What are some of the things that an enterprise, that a legacy application expects that it's not gonna have if you just lift and shift it. You know, why do we need Skytap? >> Yeah, I think what's important to remember is often, even just lifting and shifting it is very difficult because if you want a monolithic or traditional application that's very much wed to the infrastructure it was built on five, 10, 15 years ago, taking that and putting it in a hyper scale provider often means you gotta rewrite from scratch and that's a really arduous process, often one that creates a skills challenge in and of itself because not only do you need people to manage the existing application, you need a whole set of new skills to take a cloud-like approach to that development. So that can create a lot of challenges and so what we see here at DockerCon, really the reason we're here, is both Docker and Skytap see the next wave of cloud, the next wave of modern development, is gonna be, "How do we bring all these benefits we've seen "in Cloud Native development "to those existing applications?" and what we see ourselves doing is eliminating that infrastructure barrier so then you can really start using containers to their full benefit, whether it's in Skytap cloud, in another cloud, or both. >> So, just to follow up a little bit. So it's not just some services like, I don't know, you've gotta have authentication, and you've gotta have storage, and you've gotta have all the things that an old legacy application, sitting in a data center, expects. But it sounds like, also, there's operational services as well and being able to operate with that kind of cloud-level agility? >> Yeah, what we provide with Skytap is, you know, we have a concept of a Skytap environment and so within that environment, you can have your traditional X86, sort of, VMware-based workloads. We also support IBM power systems. So we're the only cloud that can run AIX workloads and Linux on power and so alongside that, what we get is sort of the combination of being able to bring in containers as well and so as organizations go through that modernization journey, being able to receive or see value in the hybrid applications, sort of, along the way. >> We saw a lot of stats, thanks Lucas, this morning I think one of the first ones that I saw was in the press release that Docker released which was, this morning, 85% of enterprise organizations are running a multi-cloud strategy, so that's pretty pervasive. We're also seeing stats like, up to 90%, we had Scott Johnston on earlier, their Chief Product Officer, up to 90% of enterprises are spending, sorry. Enterprises are spending up to 90% of their IT budgets just keeping the lights on for traditional applications. As you said, lift and shift isn't practical for a number of reasons. You also talked about, you know, skill-set changes there. So I'm curious, what are some of the, kind of, common challenges you're seeing in the customer environment where they might be trepidatious to go to the container journey and how specifically does Skytap and Docker knock those out of the park? >> Yeah, well those stats, I think, are really indicative of the challenge and then the new approaches that companies are trying to take to solve that challenge which is, you have so much invested in what's made your company successful, and if you're a long-standing enterprise doing well on your market, you've been doing this for 10, 15, 20, maybe more, years and you've done very well to get yourself to where you are. You've invested millions, if not billions in your infrastructure, your talent, and the people that build the systems that run your business so to burn that all to the ground and start from scratch doesn't make a lot of sense and so, I think, one challenge you run into is inertia, right. It's like "Hey, we did well to get here, "why do we need to suddenly change everything we're doing?" And Skytap's recommendation is you don't need to change everything, but you do need to prepare to be able to change much more rapidly as our economy continues to be more driven by digital technique. So you have inertia as a challenge. I think you also have that idea that if you're spending 90%, as you said, right, of what you just got with the lights on, where's the money and where's the time gonna come for net new and how can you bring those two together? And so that's really where I think Skytap would play a big role is bridging that gap from where you are today, allowing you to leverage the people that you have, the skills that they have, the technology that you have invested in. So you don't have to throw that all out overnight. And instead you can get more and more value out of it as you bring it into the cloud, gain incremental agility, and then, over time, make the modernization and evolutionary changes you want to make based on business needs, not having technology drive what your business does. >> How much of that is a cultural change that you guys can help companies understand is essential? Because culture, change in culture is obviously, especially with large enterprises, they can't pivot that quickly, but culture is essential for a company to successfully undergo digital transformation. I'm just wondering, what kind of conversations are you seeing with that inertia? How much of it is culture needs to change and mindsets to embrace, you know, moving forward? >> Yeah, I mean, we see a lot of this in the conversations we have with customers. We see a lot of it comes out of the market from what analysts sort of have to say as well and I think reasons out of an analyst article that was shared sort of publicly so it talks about, actually, enterprises who have adopted DivOps first are actually more successful in the move to containerization and that's what we see, sort of, with the customers that come to us. And what we're able to provide and what the customers see in Skytap is, actually, the simplicity of the UI that we provide is, actually, a good step from what they currently have without sort of needing to get into what can often be multiple UI's and screens in some of the hyper scale cloud providers. And then on top of that, sort of, the on-demand access to environment so you're taking away, sort of, what is typically a reactive approach from corporate IT when they need to reach out and go, "Hey, I need "another environment or I need another BM like this." And these organizations, it's often taking maybe six to eight weeks to get those environments turned around. We can provision a complex environment in less than, sort of, 30 seconds in Skytap. So it enables those teams to be a lot more productive in what they're doing. And there's sort of the first phase of deciding to sort of adopt the changing culture before sort of even getting into that move from, sort of, after linking in with legacy applications, you've gotta waterfall SDLC, and so actually moving from there into, sort of, more agile approaches and looking at how you can increase release cadence and what, sort of, comes into that from a people aspect, and a process change, and a methodology, and how Skytap, sort of, supports that along with integration with other third party's automation tools as well. >> Yeah, I think you nailed it on the culture point and I just wanted to not forget about people as being a big part of culture, right? And you have, fear is a very real thing, right? Fear of change, fear of net new. And so in our own adoption of Docker, and containers, and kubernetes internally. SO our cloud runs on a very large kubernetes cluster of containerized services so internally, over the last few years, we went through our own modernization journey. And I think that, paired with some research we've seen, we recently did a study with 451 Research looking at what enterprise tech leaders are experiencing. The fear of change, the reticence to change, and then just the lack of knowledge of, "Okay, what is required of me?" Like, "You're asking me to change overnight. "All of a sudden I have to take classes at night "while I do my day job." I think these are really, very realistic and human questions to ask and I think you need to take that into account when you're looking at digital transformation, modernization, so thinking about, "Hey, how do we communicate, "with transparency, what we expect and the time frame?" Let's be upfront about the challenges we expect to run into and where we're gonna have problems and how we'll deal with those together. And make sure the communication is crisp, and clear, and consistent, so that people at least know what's going on, even if they may not like it upfront. >> Well, Lucas, you brought up kubernetes and containers, right? We're here at DockerCon, so, obviously, containers on the tip of everybody's tongue. But you also work with legacy apps, which traditionally, I suppose at this point, traditional means a VM. So how does that go together? What are you looking at your customers? Are they able to transition to more containerized infrastructure? Are they sticking with VMs? I mean, how do modern containers fit into the Skytap platform here? >> Yeah, I think we're seeing a lot of adoption with our customers who are moving into Skytap with their traditional applications and we continue to, sort of, learn and observe what they're doing. For us, there's two types of customers that move to Skytap. The first of those are really looking to migrate their whole data center or evacuate the data centers going, "Where can I put these legacy applications?" You know, there's not many places they can sort of go and so they move them into Skytap, get them up and running in there, and sort of see some benefits in that. And then, almost organically, start to look at going, well how else can I make, or get my team to be sort of more cloud-native or cloud reading. It's sort of an evolution of the people component we were talking about before and sort of going, all right, well as I get my teams more ready for cloud native, they start to sort of move towards containers and cloud native services. For our, sort of, other organizations that come in are those who already know and probably have already experienced, you know, other cloud, sort of, modernizations and are looking at what have they been able to achieve and what do they learn from that. And seen the value in actually Skytap and actually come to us with the approach of going, "Right, we want to come in here. "We want to move to more agile sort of methods. "We want to, sort of, start to take our traditional "monolithic applications, break it down "into into microservices, and move it into containers." >> I'm curious. One of the things that Steve Singh, the CEO of Docker, said this morning during his keynote was, about half the room, there's about five to six thousand people here at DockerCon, their fifth conference, that only about half of them are already on this containerization journey. I'm curious, and I know there's no one-size-fits-all, but when you're talking to customers who are at the preface of going, "All right, we've gotta do this. "This is really an essential component "of our transformation." What's the time frame that they could look to see measurable business impact once they start working with Skytap and Docker on this container journey? >> Yeah, well, I think we've gotta move away collectively as an industry from the idea that there's a Big Bang or silver bullet approach to change, right? I spent the five previous years before joining Skytap last year at a company called Chef Software, competes with Puppet, who's here on the show floor. Automation software. And what I saw there in terms of both DevOps adoption, adoption of automation, and the transition to the cloud, is that if you think you can get everybody full sale on the same amount of change at the same time, to do that effectively in a relatively reasonable amount of time, you're going to not only fail, but by failing, you actually set yourself further back than had you taken a more iterative approach. So I think from a time perspective, I think the first answer is you'll never be done so presume that the journey will continue into perpetuity because continuing to gain agility, continuing to get better at delivering software, to deliver value to customers, I don't see an end to that in any sort of near-term in our economy so I think that's gonna go on for a long time. So digital transformation, modernization, whatever buzz word people may want to use, the idea of evolving and changing is an ongoing process. I think, then, business leaders will say, "Well, that's baloney, I need change now. "I want results." I think, start with a project that has a deadline associated with it, alright? We need to be able to deliver our customer banking app online, via mobile, by January. Okay, well, bite that off singularly and so that you focus on that first, you learn from how you do that process, and then you can take those learnings, communicate them, and pick another project and another project. So we recommend kind of an iterative, progressive approach that will put time and measurable goals around a specific project, meet those deadlines, hopefully, if you're successful, and then give you a lot to learn and operate off of the next time. >> That's great. I'm really kind of curious about looking forward and economic models. You know, everything is as a service at this point. You have a lot of traditional providers, the Dells and HPEs of the world who sell a lot of hardware still and sell a lot of things upfront and they, the analysts and everyone else scratching their heads about how they get to sell more services along with that. Skytap's already there. You're selling your cloud provider, you're selling a service, in some ways you're replacing some of the infrastructure or, you know, an adjunct to it. I'm just kind of curious, going forward, I mean, is this the future of cloud? As a service provider, how do you see the economic model of the DNA of Skytap partnering with people? We've ended up talking about process and people more than we've ended up talking about technology today. Which is kind of fascinating. But is that, project us into the future, what do you all see? >> Yeah, I think what we see today with cloud, and the microservices and container model is really the evolution of what was sort of the virtual data center and developing in sort of VMs. And so sort of going a step beyond that, we're seeing the container model grow and as you rightly pointed out, we talked a lot about people and process and I think that sort of was what's holding back a little of the enterprise adoption today and I think as organizations get into this sort of process and mindset, almost and sort of going, "Hey, things are gonna continue to evolve over time "and our organizations need to be "ready to adopt a lot of these." And this isn't just sort of your development level as well as looking at right, well how does your corporate IT teams, how do your security teams and other parts of the business realize this is gonna continue to evolve really quickly? And I think that's what we're gonna continue to see, sort of up front and it's gonna drive a lot of the adoption of the cloud native services and containers but it's gonna take a bit of time for some organizations to get there. >> Yeah, I have a soapbox, I want to stand on it real quickly. I think cloud is the way forward, right? So no one wants to be in the infrastructure business long-term. So I think regardless of what your deployment model will be, most businesses, five, 10, 15, 20 years from now, I don't see them owning a lot of data center real estate, right? So make the infrastructure someone else's problem. Whether that's Skytap, whether that's AWS, whether that's Azure, or, frankly, whether that's all of us, to your multi-cloud statistic, right? We see the same thing. It's much like the data center was today and has been for a long time. Use the right tool for the right job. You've got a mix of technologies so you're not locked in to any single vendor and you're able to fit technology to your business needs so I think, one, we're going cloud and that's gonna be the way it is. I think, two, is open source, right? I mean, that's where containers gained all their momentum where Docker did a fantastic job of really giving a vibrant community of developers an opportunity to do their work much more easy, much easier and much faster. And so I think you'll continue to see open source play a much larger component in how, even very large, long-standing businesses, develop what they're doing. And then you bring those two together, right? You look at, how can the cloud ecosystem best support open source tools to deliver and develop software that's gonna add value at the end of the day. >> Guys, I wish we had more time. Thank you so much for stopping by and sharing with us what Skytap is doing and how you're enabling customers to not just evolve from a technology standpoint but, I think, as we've all talked about here, really, what might even be more important is evolve the people and the processes. So thanks Lucas, thanks Hamish. Thanks for your time. >> Thank you so much for having us. >> We wanna thank you for watching theCUBE. Again, I'm Lisa Martin with John Troyer from DockerCon 2018. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Chicago, Illinois, it's theCUBE! Covering VeeamOn 2018. Brought to you by Veeam. >> We're back in the windy city, and this is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm here with Stu Miniman this is our second day of covering VeeamOn 2018, second year of theCUBE at VeeamOn Danny Allan is here, he's the Vice President of Product Strategy at Veeam. Welcome back to theCUBE, it's good to see you again. >> Thank you, very excited to be here! >> Loved the keynote yesterday, gave a lot of detail. The bumper sticker, the summary on your product strategy, how would you summarize your product strategy? >> It is to be the most comprehensive intelligent data management platform that meets the demands of the enterprise. >> So, when you say intelligent data management, people hear that, and they don't--certainly don't go immediately to backup and data protection, so you've expanded that notion of what you guys do, there's a TAM expansion there as well, which is great. What do you guys mean by intelligent data management? >> So, believe it's a journey first of all, right? And it starts with backup in our application, I know that there are vendors that are saying hey this is a new world, completely different. You know what, the cornerstone of this, is still backup in our application so that is the first stage in this journey. We believe that, right now, especially the customers I'm talking to, they're deploying things on the public Cloud, they're deploying things SAS Clouds, it's all over the place, it's growing, it's sprawling, they're trying to get their hands around it. So they have to do that first, is the next step, and then it's an evolution beyond that to okay, now we understand it, now let me do something with it, let me actually drive the business to better outcomes. >> So, some things we know, or we believe anyway, that data protection and orchestration are moving up on the list of priorities for CXOs. That's I think very clear, you would agree. But there's a dichotomy that exists between the perception from the business side, as to, what can be done in terms of data protection, particularly with regard to the degrees of automation and what IT today can deliver. So there's tension there, and there's, frankly lots of opportunity for churn. When you talk to people about, okay, are you going to switch data protection vendors as you go to this digitalization, multi-Cloud? Or you went to them, and they go no we're totally open, we have an open mind. So that's good news for you guys. So thinking about those trends, how do you take advantage, from a product standpoint? >> Well Veeam has been known, I always talk about three words, it just works, people love us because the software works and it's reliable. So that's the starting point in all of this, the opportunity I believe is in that, it just works. And so if we take them through this journey, towards intelligent data management, every step has to be about it just works. In some ways, the step from stage one to stage two, which is aggregating data, is at an infrastructure level, as you get to the later stages of three, four, five, it's it just works at a business level, and so our focus is still going to be on that simplicity, reliability, making sure the platform works. >> So I want to follow up on that, because, it just works obviously is going to resonate with the IT pro, who's got to deal with failed backups, with poor reporting, with lousy recovery, blah, you know, slow, etc, etc, etc, gettin' pounded because they're losing data, we all know that thankless world. But in terms of the business side, there's billions of dollars being left on the table by businesses in the fortune one thousand because they have inadequate data protection, processes, procedures, architectures. Not, I mean there's becoming aware of it, but what's the above-the-line message? So, it just works, how do you crack through that billions of dollars of opportunity and get CFOs to open up the wallet? That is the great opportunity for you guys, I think. >> It is, so they have challenges in a number of areas, right compliance, security, regulatory, we don't talk to executives at the C level and hear them say oh I need backup, I need replication, they're saying reduce my costs. Well if you can leverage it just works, and deploy this in a way that requires less FTEs, that makes it simpler to do it, that can give them attestation, proof, that hey, I can fail over to the public Cloud, I can burst up to the public Cloud or a manage Cloud, if I can give that fluidity, that's an it just works at an ROI perspective. Or, we talked about intelligent data management, sometimes, I'll be honest, I roll my eyes when I hear artificial intelligence. And that's not because it's not real, it's because what we haven't done is taken it just works and applied it to the business. So an example of this, forget artificial intelligence for a moment, one of the examples I give is, if you see malware crossing the network, that is a really good time to do something, let's leverage that intelligence to provide an outcome. And that's an it just works at the business level rather than at the infrastructure level. >> Alright, so Danny, above the message it's, any data, any app, across any Cloud. We have these pesky little things called like, physics, and data gravity, and the like. So protecting, getting access to my data in the public cloud versus the edge with, where we're going to see 90+% of the data in the future versus my traditional data centers where it's providing the stats. It's a complicated world, how do you make it that simple? >> So let me expand our benefits into a third area, so Veeam took off, in that it was easy to use, it was reliable, but the second one is the portability and the agnosticism of the platform, you didn't need media servers, it was all self-describing backup things, VBKs or vibs, without trying to get too technical here, that self-describing capability allows us to move between infrastructures. In some ways what VMware did, at the hardware level, they decouple the workload from a physical server, we're decoupling the workload from the infrastructure on which it sits because it's this self-describing, very portable format, that enables fluidity of movement. >> I haven't heard much about Edge yet, is that a place that you expect to begin to have a play? >> Yes, and I expect we have to do that, and the reason is because a lot of the computing now is happening at the edge and you want to make you actions out of the edge. There's this concept in the US Air Force called the OODA loop, observe, orient, decide, and act, and you would try to act out on the edge, but my belief is that data protection systems will do some of that protection out on the edge, but sometimes they won't know what to do, and so the information will be sent back to the Cloud, or sent back to the core to make a better business decision on what should we do with this data. >> You think about your platform, we were talking to Peter McKay about, you've kind of gone from a product company to a platform company. We talked about that a little bit, but I wonder if we can dig into it more from a standpoint of your role as head of product strategy. What does platform mean, where do you see that platform going, can you share a little roadmap with us? >> Platform to me has kind of three connotations to it, one is that you have the capabilities within the platform that are very broad, and we believe we have that, we can cover physical/virtual Cloud, we have orchestration, we have reporting, we have all of those capabilities. The second, though, is comprehensive APIs, you need to have the extensibility in a platform that you can actually talk to the ecosystem of partners. And that's actually the third area, it's being able to work with your Ciscos and your NetApps, and your HPEs and all of our partners to deliver these better outcomes. >> Yeah, I mean, it's funny, last year, Stu, when you saw Veeam, and you took the introduction of those capabilities. I noted, I remember the ascendancy of EMC back in the day, they did a really good job of connecting to everything that was out there. I mean, it sounds so simple, but it's integration work, they just went in and rolled up their sleeves and did the dirty work. >> A lot of work Dave, I've got the scars, living in interrupt lab, so. (laughing) >> And you guys do that dirty work, and every time you do that it expands your total available market. I don't want to say it's unique in the business, but you seem to have an aptitude to do it without it appearing to be such a heavy lift to the marketplace. Why is that? >> Well it's, frankly it's a scalability thing, we're an almost one billion dollar company, this year we should cross a billion dollars in bookings, and if you want to scale, to add more and more partners, you take our storage integrations for example we were doing maybe one a year for a few years, and we recognized all these vendors knocking on our door saying hey, give us that capability. And so we've added, just in the last six months, IBM, Lenovo, Infinit App, Pure. The only way you can do that, is to have a consistent API framework that people can plug into. It's the way we scale. >> Again, I look at a company like VMware, we saw all the sort of integration challenges that they went through, and the limited resources they had, you remember it, and the Cartel got the SDKs first, and it took forever to get the integrations done a year later you might see some function. It just seems like you guys have some sort of good process internally to actually make this stuff work. >> We're the largest small company you've ever met, we're really agile internally. It helps us to respond to the customer requests, they come to us and say hey I want this, I want this. If we can't respond to that quickly we'll never be successful. >> Danny, I just wonder if you can expand a little bit on the Cloud opportunity. Should we be looking to see more Cloud services out of Veeam kind of layer on what's happening, you have the acquisition a year ago, and-- >> Unquestionably, so I'd say 2017 was the year of agents, we added support for physical and for Cloud, but through agents. I tell everyone that 2018 is really the year of the Cloud for us, we started the year by acquiring N2W software, but last week for example, it's not even making huge PR announcements, we just release version two of backup for Office 365, which adds OneDrive and Sharepoint support. And you'll see in the next release of our product, Anton has a break-in session on this today, another huge capability around, not just integrating with the cloud but actually integrating in a way that provides business value. I'm a big believer in, you don't just put a check-box in, I support Cloud, I can send things to the Cloud, it's how do I actually use the Cloud in a way that delivers business outcome. So this year actually, 2018 is about Cloud for Veeam. >> I want to follow up on that because as an observer of this industry for a long time there seems to be sort of two philosophies, and you just laid out yours, you're not a big believer in check-boxes, and I've seen it, you're an old company. We got every feature, and they would take the salesperson, we have this they don't. Grr, headlock, buy it! (Danny laughing) So you're not trying to do the check-box game, you're trying to map business value, or your features and capabilities to business value for the customer, that's how you sell, and emphasize in your sales motions? >> Yeah, so, this is somewhat of a controversial statement, but we sometimes say we won't be first to market with a feature, we'll be first to market with a solution. So you can come out with, for example, sending things to object storage in the Cloud, and if you're sending up a one gigabyte object, that is a totally--you're not going to leverage that in the real world. But if you deliver that in a way that is actually effective, then you can leverage the Cloud as a tool, because the Cloud is not a destination for most of these enterprises, it's a tool in their toolbox that they use to solve a problem. So we're all about solving those problems. >> Excellent. Alright, Danny, thanks so much for coming back on theCUBE, we'll give you last word on VeeamOn 2018, and maybe give us a little preview of what we can expect? >> Well, we're really excited to be here, the most exciting thing to me is, is the recognition, the conversation with customers about this journey towards intelligent data management, as you said, most customers are in stage one, stage two, but for us this is a partnership, this isn't us just giving software, this is talking to customers, talking to partners, making them successful. >> Alright well hey, congratulations on a great show, and all the success. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you very much, happy to be here! >> Alright keep it right there everybody, Stu and I will be back with our next guest. From Chicago, theCUBE, VeeamOn 2018. We'll be right back. (light music)