>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco it's theCUBE covering RSA Conference 2020 San Francisco brought to you by SiliconANGLE media. >> Welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are at the RSA 2020, a really special segment. As you can tell it's really quiet here, it's not like normal CUBE action, we are here before the expo hall even opens on Thursday morning with a very special guest, we pulled them away from a crazy busy week if not more, it's Rohit Ghai the president of RSA, Rohit great to see you again. >> Always a pleasure, thanks Jeff. >> Absolutely, so I was really looking forward to this, I was really impressed by the opening keynotes, first it rolled out George Takei, that's a pretty bold move even more bold is to try to follow him up. >> Totally (laughing) >> So congratulations, and you know, that was pretty brave. >> I appreciate it, thank you. That was quite a, you know, quite a hurdle to got to follow George Takei. >> Right, and I just want to get kind of these other things that were kind of bubbling above the surface out of the way you know, a big piece of news, I think a week it came out before the show is that RSA was sold to Symphony I believe? >> Rohit: Symphony Technology Group. >> Right, so give us a little bit of the story there. >> Absolutely, so you know we entered into a definitive agreement, Symphony Technology Group acquiring RSA from Dell Technologies. What this does is this it basically clarifies the swim lanes for Dell Technologies to focus on intrinsic security and RSA can focus on managing digital and cyber risk, and you know, we are excited about the opportunity to become agile and independent and you know, kind of play in a smaller company setting to pursue our future, so we are super excited to be part of Symphony. >> Yeah, that's great, and the other thing that's kind of a pall, I mean just to put it out there is the corona virus thing. And you know, Mobile World Congress, a completely different show but a big show, probably the first big show of our industry this year was canceled. A hundred thousand plus people, so I just am just wondering if you can share kind of what were some of your thoughts and the team's thoughts 'cause we were all curious to see well how is this going to happen, there was a couple of drop outs but I think it's been a very good week. >> It has been a great week, you know what I'll say is it was a demonstration of resilience on part of the attendees, you know when we analyzed the situation what we noted was about 82 plus percent of our attendees are from the Americas right, so there was a core set of attendees that were perhaps not as impacted in terms of travel, et cetera, so we decided to move forward, we've been in close collaboration with the CDC and the mayor's office right here, Major London Breed's office right here is SF to make sure it's going to be a safe event for everyone and you know, the team put together a great kind of set of measures to make sure everyone has hand sanitizer. >> Great, great. >> And you know, we made sure we did what was needed to manage the risk and ensure resilience through this sort of you know very global risk that is playing out, so very proud of the team, and we garnered 40 thousand plus attendees despite you know, despite the coronavirus issue. >> You know, good job I am sure it was touch and go and a real sensitive situation and I can tell you a lot of other people and event organizers you know, were getting ready to head into a very busy event season, it's what we do and so, you know nice kind of lead indicator from you to execute with caution. >> I appreciate it, thank you. >> So let's jump into the fun stuff. So your key note was not really talking that much about bad guys and technology and this and that, you talked about story telling and you got very much into kind of the human element, which is the theme this year, but really the role of stories, the importance of stories, and most importantly for the security industry to take back their story and not let it get away from them. >> You summed it up really well Jeff, and you know what I said is hey if the theme of the conference is the human element, let's explore what intrinsically makes us human and the point, you know you've all know that it is stories that makes us human and I feel we've lost control of the narrative as an industry and as such we need to take that back and make sure we clarify the role of all the human characters in our story because until we do that, until we change our story we have no shot at changing our reality. >> Right, but you're kind of in a weird spot right, it's the classic spy dilemma. You can't necessarily tell people what you know because then they'll know that you know it and you might not be able to get more or better information down the road, so as you said in you keynote you don't necessarily have the ability to celebrate your wins, and a DDoS attack thwarted doesn't make the news. I keep thinking it's like ref in a game or like a offensive lineman in football you only hear about them on that one play when they get the holding call, not the 70 other plays were they did their job. >> Rohit: Totally, totally. >> So it's a unique challenge though >> It is, it is a challenge, it is not an easy problem and you know, there is a couple of recipes that I put out there for us to consider as an industry is you know, recipe one is we can celebrate our successes at a collective level right so, just like we put out breach reports, et cetera, in terms of what the statistics are, where the breaches are animating from we can talk about defensive strategies that are working at a collective level as an industry and share that sort of best practices recipes to win, that would be a fine start. I think another area, another point that I made was that we don't have to win for the hacker to lose. 71% of the breaches were motivated by financial gains, right, and as such if we, despite breaches, which is not a win for us, if we deny financial gain to the hackers we make them lose and they are subject to the same laws of economics, they have a profit and loss statement, they are spending resources for gain and when we deny them gain we make them lose, so those are a couple of ideas on how we can begin to change the narrative. >> Right. So the other piece of the human part is the rise of the bots, right, and the raise of AI and the rise of these increasingly smart and sophisticated machines. I think I saw one of those reports that we talk about on air was you know that people are an increasingly targeted group we hear it all the time, we hear about social engineering. As that gets more complicated, how does the role of people change? 'Cause clearly they can't monitor tens and tens and hundreds of thousands of concurrent attacks all the time. >> Absolutely, so you know the bad guys are using AI you know I cited the example of a deep fake audio clip that actually duped the CEO into initiating a wire transfer so they are using all these sophisticated attacks so to your point, we cannot rely on the end user to discern through these very sophisticates. It's unfair for us to think of them as the first line of defense, we have to on the IT side, we have to bring in technology, make the technology more usable, so you don't have to pay attention to this one millimeter by one millimeter lock at the corner of the browser to realize whether a web interaction is safe or not. We need to make more usable software, we need to do a better job of managing and reducing vulnerabilities to reduce the attack surface so IT has to step up in that regard, and then on the security teams I think they have to step up to use AI to detect bot initiated attacks so we are not leaning on the human to discern what is an anomalous interaction and what could be a phishing or a smishing attack, et cetera, you know we need to bring AI to fight the good fight on our behalf. >> Right. So the other kind of angle on that I thought was really interesting, Wendy's keynote, a couple of keynotes after yours from Cisco talked about, you know, a theme we see over and over in tech which is really kind of the democratization of security and get it out of just the hallowed halls of the super billion CSOCs and technologists that are just security and open it up to everybody so make them part of the solution and not those pesky people that keep clicking on links that they are not supposed to. >> Absolutely. She did a great job of kind of making that point and you know the way I think about it is again we need to move from a culture of elitism to a culture of inclusion. Until we really get the steaming going, not just within the security professionals which we are doing a better job of certainly in the industry, but we have to team with the user, the IT and the business teams in order to have a shot at tipping the balance in our favor. >> Yeah, it's really funny 'cause that kind of democratization theme is something that we see kind of across many levels of technology, whether it's in big data, can get away from the data scientists, in doing your own reports, in having access to your own marketing material and you know, so it's kind of funny that now we are just hearing it here I guess the last bastion of we're the smartest people in the room, no no, you need to use all the brain power. >> All the brain power. I use the phrase let's stop being STEM snobs and let's be more inclusive, and you know garner the entire spectrum of the diverse talent pool that we have available and you know making the point, perhaps a provocative point, that the cyber talent gap, a bit of it might be actually self-inflicted because we have been in this sort of elitism mindset. >> Right, and I think one of the themes that you talked about in you keynote was because of kind of the elite mindset we only want to focus on the elite challenges and in fact it's not the hardest challenges that are necessarily the most dangerous or the ones that are more frequently used, it doesn't have to be the craziest hardest way in. >> It absolutely does not. The point I made was preparing for the worse does not prepare you for the likely and the statistics are overwhelming. 60% of the breaches were on the back of six stolen credentials. That's a pretty table stakes basic issue that ought to be just taken off the table, and if we take care of the basics then we can focus our energy on the corner cases but let's first prepare for the likely before we get to the worst situations. >> Right. So Rohit I'm just curious to get your take as you have been here for the last couple of days, you know you did a whole lot of work getting into that keynote and getting this thing up and off the ground but you've had a couple of days to be here walked around, talked to a lot of customers and clients, partners, I wonder if there is anything that's kind of come up as a theme that you either didn't expect or kind of reinforced some of thoughts that you had coming into this week. >> Absolutely. I think if I would've net it out Jeff what I'm sensing is there is a whole movement to shift security left, which is this whole idea of IT stepping up as the first line of defense, reduce cyber exposure, take care of patching, multi-factor authentication, reduce the attack surface intrinsic security right so DevOps and SecDevOps take care of it right up front before the apps even get built right, then there is another movement to shift things right which is take care of the new aspects of the attack surface right, what the hacker always take advantage of are the areas where they sense we are unprepared and for a long time they've seen us being unprepared in terms of reducing the attack surface and then they go after the new aspects of the attack surface and what are those? IT, IoT, OT, data as an attack surface and the Edge right, so these are areas were there is a lot of activity, a lot of innovation, you know, on the floor here if you walk the corners shifting left shifting right as in all the new aspects of the attack surface. I am seeing a lot of conversations, a lot of innovation is that area. >> Yeah. Well, there's certainly no shortage of innovation in the companies here and in fact I think it's probably one of the biggest challenges that I think of from a virus perspective is to walk this floor and to figure it all out 'cause I don't know how many thousand of vendors there are but there's really big ones and there is lot's of little ones like you said tucked in the corner in kind of the cutting edge of the innovation. What advice do you give to people who is their first time coming to RSA? >> Yes, I think you know, it's a huge challenge for customers, there's 14 of every category. I think the customers what they have to see is they have to think about the recipe rather they have to focus not on the tool but the concept behind the tool, and think about the architecture right and they should seek out vendors that take this platform approach. It is, you know, the market hasn't consolidated that much where they can just go to a few vendors but when they build that architecture they should choose vendors that behave well as a puzzle piece in the jigsaw puzzle that our customers are having to assemble together right, that they are investing in the API integrations on the edges so they can slot in and be part of a broader solution. That's a key, key criteria that customers should utilize in their selection of the vendors. >> Yes, that's good. That's good advice, and they should be listening. So Rohit, thanks again for your time. Congratulations on a week and I hope you get that weekend of absolutely nothing coming up in just a couple of days that you talked about. >> I absolutely do. The joke I made was, you know, the only time I'm okay being labeled as useless is the weekend after RSA conference. So, I fully look forward to being useless over this weekend, it's been a great week and thank you again for having me. >> All right, two more days, 48 hours. All right, thanks again. He's Rohit, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at RSA 2020, the year we're going to know everything with the benefit of hindsight. We're not quite there yet but we're trying yo get a little closer. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco. It's theCUBE, covering RSA Conference 2020, San Francisco. Brought to you by, SiliconANGLE Media. >> Welcome back everyone. CUBE coverage here in Moscone in San Francisco for RSA, 2020. I'm John Furrier host of theCUBE. We've got a great guest here talking about cybersecurity and the impact with AI and the role of data. It's always great to have Derek Manky on Chief Security Insights Global Threat Alliances with FortiGuard Lab, part of Fortinet, FortiGuard Labs is great. Great organization. Thanks for coming on. >> It's a pleasure always to be here-- >> So you guys do a great threat report that we always cover. So it covers all the bases and it really kind of illustrates state of the art of viruses, the protection, threats, et cetera. But you're part of FortiGuard Labs. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Part of Fortinet, which is a security company, public. What is FortiGuard Labs? What do you guys do, what's your mission? >> So FortiGuard Labs has existed since day one. You can think of us as the intelligence that's baked into the product, It's one thing to have a world-class product, but you need a world-class intelligence team backing that up. We're the ones fighting those fires against cybercrime on the backend, 24/7, 365 on a per second basis. We're processing threat intelligence. We've got over 10 million attacks or processing just per minute, over a hundred billion events, in any given day that we have to sift through. We have to find out what's relevant. We have to find gaps that we might be missing detection and protection. We got to push that out to a customer base of 450,000 customers through FortiGuard services and 5 million firewalls, 5 million plus firewalls we have now. So it's vitally important. You need intelligence to be able to detect and then protect and also to respond. Know the enemy, build a security solution around that and then also be able to act quickly about it if you are under active attack. So we're doing everything from creating security controls and protections. So up to, real time updates for customers, but we're also doing playbooks. So finding out who these attackers are, why are they coming up to you. For a CSO, why does that matter? So this is all part of FortiGuard Labs. >> How many people roughly involved ? Take us a little inside the curtain here. What's going on? Personnel size, scope. >> So we're over 235. So for a network security vendor, this was the largest global SOC, that exists. Again, this is behind the curtain like you said. These are the people that are, fighting those fires every day. But it's a large team and we have experts to cover the entire attack surface. So we're looking at not just a viruses, but we're looking at as zero-day weapons, exploits and attacks, everything from cyber crime to, cyber warfare, operational technology, all these sorts of things. And of course, to do that, we need to really heavily rely on good people, but also automation and artificial intelligence and machine learning. >> You guys are walking on a tight rope there. I can only imagine how complex and stressful it is, just imagining the velocity alone. But one of the trends that's coming up here, this year at RSA and is kind of been talking about in the industry is the who? Who is the attacker because, the shifts could shift and change. You got nation states are sitting out there, they're not going to have their hands dirty on this stuff. You've got a lot of dark web activity. You've got a lot of actors out there that go by different patterns. But you guys have an aperture and visibility into a lot of this stuff. >> Absolutely. >> So, you can almost say, that's that guy. That's the actor. That's a really big part. Talk about why that's important. >> This is critically important because in the past, let's say the first generation of, threat intelligence was very flat. It was to watch. So it was just talking about here's a bad IP, here's a bad URL, here's a bad file block hit. But nowadays, obviously the attackers are very clever. These are large organizations that are run a lot of people involved. There's real world damages happening and we're talking about, you look at OT attacks that are happening now. There's, in some cases, 30, $40 million from targeted ransom attacks that are happening. These people, A, have to be brought to justice. So we need to understand the who, but we also need to be able to predict what their next move is. This is very similar to, this is what you see online or CSI. The police trynna investigate and connect the dots like, plotting the strings and the yarn on the map. This is the same thing we're doing, but on a way more advanced level. And it's very important to be able to understand who these groups are, what tools they use, what are the weapons, cyber weapons, if you will, and what's their next move potentially going to be. So there's a lot of different reasons that's important. >> Derek, I was riffing with another guest earlier today about this notion of, government protection. You've got a military troops drop on our shores and my neighborhood, the Russians drop in my neighborhood. Guess what, the police will probably come in, and, or the army should take care of it. But if I got to run a business, I got to build my own militia. There's no support out there. The government's not going to support me. I'm hacked. Damage is done. You guys are in a way providing that critical lifeline that guard or shield, if you will, for customers. And they're going to want more of it. So I've got to ask you the hard question, which is, how are you guys going to constantly be on the front edge of all this? Because at the end of the day, you're in the protection business. Threats are coming at the speed of milliseconds and nanoseconds, in memory. You need memory, you need database. You've got to have real time. It's a tsunami of attack. You guys are the front lines of this. You're the heat shield. >> Yes, absolutely. >> How do you take it to the next level? >> Yeah, so collaboration, integration, having a broad integrated platform, that's our bread and butter. This is what we do. End-to-end security. The attack surface is growing. So we have to be able to, A, be able to cover all aspects of that attack surface and again, have intelligence. So we're doing sharing through partners. We have our core intelligence network. Like I said, we're relying heavily on machine learning models. We're able to find that needle in the haystack. Like, as I said earlier, we're getting over a hundred billion potential threat events a day. We have to dissect that. We have to break it down. We have to say, is this affecting endpoint? Is this effect affecting operational technology? What vertical, how do we process it? How do we verify that this is a real threat? And then most importantly, get that out in time and speed to our customers. So I started with automation years ago, but now really the way that we're doing this is through broad platform coverage. But also machine learning models for and-- >> I want to dig into machine learning because, I love that needle in the haystack analogy, because, if you take that to the next step, you got to stack a needles now. So you find the needle in the haystack. Now you got a bunch of needles, where do you find that? You need AI, you got to have some help. But you still got the human component. So talk about how you guys are advising customers on how you're using machine learning and get that AI up and running for customers and for yourselves. >> So we're technology people. I always look at this as the stack. The stack model, the bottom of the stack, you have automation. You have layer one, layer two. That's like the basic things for, feeds, threat feeds, how we can push out, automate, integrate that. Then you have the human. So the layer seven. This is where our human experts are coming in to actually advise our customers. We're creating a threat signals with FortiGuard Labs as an example. These are bulletins that's a quick two to three page read that a CSO can pick up and say, here's what FortiGuard Labs has discovered this week. Is this relevant to my network? Do I have these protections in place. There's also that automated, and so, I refer to this as a centaur model. It's half human half machine and, the machines are driving a lot of that, the day to day mundane tasks, if you will, but also finding, collecting the needles of needles. But then ultimately we have our humans that are processing that, analyzing it, creating the higher level strategic advice. We recently, we've launched a FortiAI, product as well. This has a concept of a virtual-- >> Hold on, back up a second. What's it called? >> FortiAI. >> So it's AI components. Is it a hardware box or-- >> This is a on-premise appliance built off of five plus years of learning that we've done in the cloud to be able to identify threats and malware, understand what that malware does to a detailed level. And, where we've seen this before, where is it potentially going? How do we protect against it? Something that typically you would need, four to five headcount in your security operations center to do, we're using this as an assist to us. So that's why it's a virtual analyst. It's really a bot, if you will, something that can actually-- >> So it's an enabling opportunity for the customers. So is this virtual assistant built into the box. What does that do, virtual analyst. >> So the virtual analyst is able to, sit on premises. So it's localized learning, collect threats to understand the nature of those threats, to be able to look at the needles of the needles, if you will, make sense of that and then automatically generate reports based off of that. So it's really an assist tool that a network admin or a security analyst was able to pick up and virtually save hours and hours of time of resources. >> So, if you look at the history of like our technology industry from a personalization standpoint, AI and data, whether you're a media business, personalization is ultimately the result of good data AI. So personalization for an analyst, would be how not to screw up their job. (laughs) One level. The other one is to be proactive on being more offensive. And then third collaboration with others. So, you starting to see that kind of picture form. What's your reaction to that? >> I think it's great. There's stepping stones that we have to go through. The collaboration is not always easy. I'm very familiar with this. I mean I was, with the Cyber Threat Alliance since day one, I head up and work with our Global Threat Alliances. There's always good intentions, there's problems that can be created and obviously you have things like PII now and data privacy and all these little hurdles they have to come over. But when it works right together, this is the way to do it. It's the same thing with, you talked about the data naturally when he started building up IT stacks, you have silos of data, but ultimately those silos need to be connected from different departments. They need to integrate a collaborate. It's the same thing that we're seeing from the security front now as well. >> You guys have proven the model of FortiGuard that the more you can see, the more visibility you can see and more access to the data in real time or anytime scale, the better the opportunity. So I got to take that to the next level. What you guys are doing, congratulations. But now the customer. How do I team up with, if I'm a customer with other customers because the bad guys are teaming up. So the teaming up is now a real dynamic that companies are deploying. How are you guys looking at that? How is FortiGuard helping that? Is it through services? Is it through the products like virtual assistant? Virtual FortiAI? >> So you can think of this. I always make it an analogy to the human immune system. Artificial neural networks are built off of neural nets. If I have a problem and an infection, say on one hand, the rest of the body should be aware of that. That's collaboration from node to node. Blood cells to blood cells, if you will. It's the same thing with employees. If a network admin sees a potential problem, they should be able to go and talk to the security admin, who can go in, log into an appliance and create a proper response to that. This is what we're doing in the security fabric to empower the customer. So the customer doesn't have to always do this and have the humans actively doing those cycles. I mean, this is the integration. The orchestration is the big piece of what we're doing. So security orchestration between devices, that's taking that gap out from the human to human, walking over with a piece of paper to another or whatever it is. That's one of the key points that we're doing within the actual security fabric. >> So that's why silos is problematic. Because you can't get that impact. >> And it also creates a lag time. We have a need for speed nowadays. Threats are moving incredibly fast. I think we've talked about this on previous episodes with swarm technology, offensive automation, the weaponization of artificial intelligence. So it becomes critically important to have that quick response and silos, really create barriers of course, and make it slower to respond. >> Okay Derek, so I got to ask you, it's kind of like, I don't want to say it sounds like sports, but it's, what's the state of the art in the attack vectors coming in. What are you guys seeing as some of the best of breed tax that people should really be paying attention to? They may, may not have fortified down. What are SOCs looking at and what are security pros focused on right now in terms of the state of the art. >> So the things that keep people up at night. We follow this in our Threat Landscape Report. Obviously we just released our key four one with FortiGuard Labs. We're still seeing the same culprits. This is the same story we talked about a lot of times. Things like, it used to be a EternalBlue and now BlueKeep, these vulnerabilities that are nothing new but still pose big problems. We're still seeing that exposed on a lot of networks. Targeted ransom attacks, as I was saying earlier. We've seen the shift or evolution from ransomware from day to day, like, pay us three or $400, we'll give you access to your data back to going after targeted accounts, high revenue business streams. So, low volume, high risk. That's the trend that we're starting to see as well. And this is what I talk about for trying to find that needle in the haystack. This is again, why it's important to have eyes on that. >> Well you guys are really advanced and you guys doing great work, so congratulations. I got to ask you to kind of like, the spectrum of IT. You've got a lot of people in the high end, financial services, healthcare, they're regulated, they got all kinds of challenges. But as IT and the enterprise starts to get woke to the fact that everyone's vulnerable. I've heard people say, well, I'm good. I got a small little to manage, I'm only a hundred million dollar business. All I do is manufacturing. I don't really have any IP. So what are they going to steal? So that's kind of a naive approach. The answer is, what? Your operations and ransomware, there's a zillion ways to get taken down. How do you respond to that. >> Yeah, absolutely. Going after the crown jewels, what hurts? So it might not be a patent or intellectual property. Again, the things that matter to these businesses, how they operate day to day. The obvious examples, what we just talked about with revenue streams and then there's other indirect problems too. Obviously, if that infrastructure of a legitimate organization is taken over and it's used as a botnet and an orchestrated denial-of-service attack to take down other organizations, that's going to have huge implications. >> And they won't even know it. >> Right, in terms of brand damage, has legal implications as well that happened. This is going even down to the basics with consumers, thinking that, they're not under attack, but at the end of the day, what matters to them is their identity. Identity theft. But this is on another level when it comes to things to-- >> There's all kinds of things to deal with. There's, so much more advanced on the attacker side. All right, so I got to ask you a final question. I'm a business. You're a pro. You guys are doing great work. What do I do, what's my strategy? How would you advise me? How do I get my act together? I'm working the mall every day. I'm trying my best. I'm peddling as fast as I can. I'm overloaded. What do I do? How do I go the next step? >> So look for security solutions that are the assist model like I said. There's never ever going to be a universal silver bullet to security. We all know this. But there are a lot of things that can help up to that 90%, 95% secure. So depending on the nature of the threats, having a first detection first, that's always the most important. See what's on your network. This is things where SIM technology, sandboxing technology has really come into play. Once you have those detections, how can you actually take action? So look for a integration. Really have a look at your security solutions to see if you have the integration piece. Orchestration and integration is next after detection. Finally from there having a proper channel, are there services you looked at for managed incident response as an example. Education and cyber hygiene are always key. These are free things that I push on everybody. I mean we release weekly threat intelligence briefs. We're doing our quarterly Threat Landscape Reports. We have something called threat signals. So it's FortiGuard response to breaking industry events. I think that's key-- >> Hygiene seems to come up over and over as the, that's the foundational bedrock of security. >> And then, as I said, ultimately, where we're heading with this is the AI solution model. And so that's something, again that I think-- >> One final question since it's just popped into my head. I wanted, and that last one. But I wanted to bring it up since you kind of were, we're getting at it. I know you guys are very sensitive to this one topic cause you live it every day. But the notion of time and time elapsed is a huge concern because you got to know, it's not if it's when. So the factor of time is a huge variable in all kinds of impact. Positive and negative. How do you talk about time and the notion of time elapsing. >> That's great question. So there's many ways to stage that. I'll try to simplify it. So number one, if we're talking about breaches, time is money. So the dwell time. The longer that a threat sits on a network and it's not cleaned up, the more damage is going to be done. And we think of the ransom attacks, denial-of-service, revenue streams being down. So that's the incident response problem. So time is very important to detect and respond. So that's one aspect of that. The other aspect of time is with machine learning as well. This is something that people don't always think about. They think that, artificial intelligence solutions can be popped up overnight and within a couple of weeks they're going to be accurate. It's not the case. Machines learn like humans too. It takes time to do that. It takes processing power. Anybody can get that nowadays, data, most people can get that. But time is critical to that. It's a fascinating conversation. There's many different avenues of time that we can talk about. Time to detect is also really important as well, again. >> Let's do it, let's do a whole segment on that, in our studio, I'll follow up on that. I think it's a huge topic, I hear about all the time. And since it's a little bit elusive, but it kind of focuses your energy on, wait, what's going on here? I'm not reacting. (laughs) Time's a huge issue. >> I refer to it as a latency. I mean, latency is a key issue in cybersecurity, just like it is in the stock exchange. >> I mean, one of the things I've been talking about with folks here, just kind of in fun conversation is, don't be playing defense all the time. If you have a good time latency, you going to actually be a little bit offensive. Why not take a little bit more offense. Why play defense the whole time. So again, you're starting to see this kind of mentality not being, just an IT, we've got to cover, okay, respond, no, hold on the ballgame. >> That comes back to the sports analogy again. >> Got to have a good offense. They must cross offense. Derek, thanks so much. Quick plug for you, FortiGuard, share with the folks what you guys are up to, what's new, what's the plug. >> So FortiGuard Labs, so we're continuing to expand. Obviously we're focused on, as I said, adding all of the customer protection first and foremost. But beyond that, we're doing great things in industry. So we're working actively with law enforcement, with Interpol, Cyber Threat Alliance, with The World Economic Forum and the Center for Cyber Security. There's a lot more of these collaboration, key stakeholders. You talked about the human to human before. We're really setting the pioneering of setting that world stage. I think that is, so, it's really exciting to me. It's a lot of good industry initiatives. I think it's impactful. We're going to see an impact. The whole goal is we're trying to slow the offense down, the offense being the cyber criminals. So there's more coming on that end. You're going to see a lot great, follow our blogs at fortinet.com and all-- >> Great stuff. >> great reports. >> I'm a huge believer in that the government can't protect us digitally. There's going to be protection, heat shields out there. You guys are doing a good job. It's only going to be more important than ever before. So, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming I really appreciate. >> Never a dull day as we say. >> All right, it's theCUBE's coverage here in San Francisco for RSA 2020. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco It's theCUBE. Covering RSA Conference 2020, San Francisco. Brought to you by Silicon Angled Media >> Hi everyone, welcome to theCUBE's coverage here at RSA Conference 2020. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE We're on the floor getting all the data, sharing it with you here, Cube coverage. Got the best new generation shift happening as cloud computing goes to the whole other level. Multi-cloud, hybrid cloud changing the game. You're seeing the companies transition from an on-premises to cloud architecture. This is forcing all the companies to change. So a new generation of security is here and we've got a great guest, so a hot start-up. Masha Sedova, co-founder of Elevate Security. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you so much for having me, John. >> So the next generation in what will be a multi-generational security paradigm, is kind of happening right now with the beginning of, we're seeing the transition, Palo Alto Networks announced earnings yesterday down 13% after hours because of the shift to the cloud. Now I think they're going to do well, they're well positioned, but it highlights this next generation security. You guys are a hot start-up, Elevate Security. What is the sea change? What is going on with security? What is this next generation paradigm about? >> Yeah, so it's interesting that you talk about this as next generation. In some ways, I see this as a two-prong move between, yes, we're moving more into the cloud but we're also going back to our roots. We're figuring out how to do asset management right, we're figuring out how to do patching right, and for the first time, we're figuring how to do the human element right. And that's what where we come in. >> You know, the disruption of these new shifts, it also kind of hits like this, the old expression, 'same wine, new bottle', all this, but it's a data problem. Security has always been a data problem, and we've seen some learnings around data. Visualization, wrangling, there's a lot of best practices around there. You guys are trying to change the security paradigm by incorporating a data-centric view with changing the behavior of the humans and the machines and kind of making it easier to manage. Could you share what you guys are doing? What's the vision for Elevate? >> Yeah, so we believe and we've seen, from our experience being practitioners, you can't change what you can't measure. If you don't have visibility, you don't know where you're going. And that's probably been one of the biggest pain-point in the security awareness space traditionally. We just roll out training and hope it works. And it doesn't, which is why human error is a huge source of our breaches. But we keep rolling out the same one-size fits all approach without wanting to measure or, being able to. So, we've decided to turn the problem on its head and we use existing data sets that most organizations who have a baseline level of maturity already have in place. Your end point protections, your DLP solutions, your proxies, your email security gateways and using that to understand what your employees are doing on the network to see if user generated incidents are getting better over time or getting worse. And using that as the instrumentation and the level of visibility into understanding how you should be orchestrating your program in this space. >> You know, that's a great point. I was just having a conversation last night at one of the cocktail parties here around RSA and we were debating on, we talk about the kind of breaches, you mentioned breaches, well there's the pure breach where I'm going to attack and penetrate the well fortified network. But then there's just human error, an S3 bucket laying open or some configuration problem. I guess it's not really a breach, it's kind of an open door so the kind of notion of a breach is multifold. How do you see that, because again, human error, insider threats or human error, these are enabling the hackers. >> Yeah >> This is not new. >> Yeah. >> How bad is the problem? >> It depends on what report you read. The biggest number I've seen so far is something like 95% of breaches have human error. But I honestly, I couldn't tell you what the 5% that don't include it because if you go far enough back, it's because a patch wasn't applied and there is a human being involved there because there is vulnerability in code, that's probably a secure coding practice when you're a development organization. Maybe it's a process that wasn't followed or even created in the first place. There's a human being at the core of every one of these breaches and, it needs to be addressed as holistically as our technologies and our processes right now in the space. >> The evolution of human intelligence augmented by machines will certainly help. >> That's it, yeah. >> I mean, I've got to ask you, obviously you're well-funded. Costanova Ventures well known in the enterprise space, Greg Sands and the team there, really strong, but you guys entered the market, why? I mean you guys, you and your founder both at Salesforce.com. Salesforce gurus doing a lot of work there. Obviously you've seen the large scale, first wave of the cloud. >> Yeah >> Why do the start-up? What was the problem statement you guys were going after? >> So, my co-founder and I both came from the world of being practitioners and we saw how limited the space was and actually changing human behavior, I was given some animated PowerPoints, said use this to keep the Russians out of your network, which is a practical joke unless your job is on the line, so I took a huge step back and I said, there are other fields that have figured this out. Behavioral science being one of them, they use positive reinforcement, gamification, marketing and advertisements have figured out how to engage the human element, just look around the RSA floor, and there's so many learnings of how we make decisions as human beings that can be applied into changing people's behaviors in security. So that's what we did. >> And what was the behavior you're trying to change? >> Yeah, so the top one's always that our attackers are getting into organizations, so, reducing phishing click-throughs an obvious one, increasing reporting rates, reducing malware infection rates, improving sensitive data handling, all of which have ties back to, as I was mentioning earlier, security data sources. So, we get to map those and use that data to then drive behavior change that's rooted in concepts like social proof, how are you doing compared to your peers? We make dinner decisions on that and Amazon buying decisions on that, why not influence security like that? >> So building some intelligence into the system, is there a particular market you're targeting? I mean, here people like to talk in segments, is there a certain market that you guys are targeting? >> Yeah, so the amazing thing about this is, and probably no surprise, the human element is a ubiquitous problem. We are in over a dozen different industries and we've seen this approach work across all of those industries because human beings make the same mistakes, no matter what kind of company they're in. We really work well with larger enterprises. We work well with larger enterprises because they tend to have the data sets that really provides insights into human behavior. >> And what's the business model you guys envision happening with your service product? >> We sell to enterprises and security, the CISO and the package as a whole, gives them the tools to have the voice internally in their organization We sell to Fortune 1000 companies, >> So it's a SAAS service? >> Yeah, SAAS service, yeah. >> And so what's the technology secret sauce? (laughing) >> Um, that's a great question but really, our expertise is understanding what information people need at what time and under what circumstances, that best changes their behavior. So we really are content diagnostic, we are much more about the engine that understands what content needs to be presented to whom and why. So that everyone is getting only the information they need, they understand why they need it and they don't need anything extra-superfluous to their... >> Okay, so I was saying on theCUBE, my last event was at, CIO's can have good days and bad days. They have good days, CISOs really have good days, many will say bad days, >> Masha: Yeah, it's a hard job. >> So how do I know I need the Elevate Solution? What problem do I have, what's in it for me? What do I get out of it? When do I know when to engage with you guys? >> I take a look at how many user generated incidents your (mumbles) responding to, and I would imagine it is a large majority of them. We've seen, while we were working at Salesforce and across our current customers, close to a 40% reduction rate in user generated incidents, which clearly correlates to time spent on much more useful things than cleaning up mistakes. It's also one of the biggest ROI's you can get for the cheapest investment. By investing a little bit in your organization now, the impact you have in your culture and investing in the future decision, the future mistakes that never get made, are actually untold, the benefit of that is untold. >> So you're really kind of coming in as a holistic, kind of a security data plane if you will, aggregating the data points, making a visualization in human component. >> You've got it. >> Now, what's the human touchpoint? Is it a dashboard? Is it notifications? Personalization? How is the benefit rendered for the customer? >> So we give security teams and CSOs a dashboard that maps their organization's strengths and weaknesses. But for every employee, we give personalized, tailored feedback. Right now it shows up in an email that they get on an ongoing basis. We also have one that we tailor for executives, so the executive gets one for their department and we create an executive leaderboard that compares their performance to fellow peers and I'll tell you, execs love to win, so we've seen immense change from that move alone. >> Well, impressive pedigree on your entrepreneurial background, I see Salesforce has really kind of, I consider real first generation cloud before cloud actually happened, and there's a lot of learn, it was always an Apple case, now it's AWS, but it's it's own cloud as we all know, what are the learnings that you saw from Salesforce that you said hey, I'm going to connect those dots to the new opportunity? What's the real key there? >> So, I had two major aha's that I've been sharing with my work since. One, it's not what people know, but it's what they do that matters, and if you can sit with a moment and think about that, you realize it's not more training, because people might actually know the information, but they just choose not to do it. How many people smoke, and they still know it kills them? They think that it doesn't apply to them, same thing with security. I know what I need to do, I'm just not incentivized to do it, so there's a huge motivation factor that needs to be addressed. That's one thing that I don't see a lot of other players on the market doing and one thing we just really wanted to do as well. >> So it sounds like you guys are providing a vision around using sheet learning and AI and data synthesis wrangling and all that good stuff, to be an assistant, a personal assistant to security folks, because it sounds like you're trying to make their life easier, make better decisions. Sounds like you guys are trying to distract away all these signals, >> You're right. >> See what to pay attention to. >> And make it more relevant, yeah. Well think about what Fitbit did for your own personal fitness. It curates a personal relationship based on a whole bunch of data. How you're doing, goals you've set, and all of a sudden, a couple of miles walk leads to an immense lifestyle change. Same thing with security, yeah. >> That's interesting, I love the Fitbit analogy because if you think about the digital ecosystem of an enterprise, it used to be siloed, IT driven, now with digital, everything's connected so technically, you're instrumenting a lot of things for everything. >> Yeah. >> So the question's not so much instrumentation, it's what's happening when and contextually why. >> That's it, why, that's exactly it. Yeah, you totally got it. >> Okay. I got it. >> Yeah, I can see the light bulb. >> Okay, aha, ding ding. All right, so back to the customer pain point. You mentioned some data points around KPI's that they might or things that they might want to call you so it's incidents, what kind of incidents? When do I know I need to get you involved? Will you repeat those again? >> There's two places where it's a great time to involve. Now, because of the human element is, or think about this as an investment. If you do non-investor security culture, one way or another, you have security culture. It's either hurting you or it's helping you and by hurting you, people are choosing to forego investing security processes or secure cultures and you are just increasing your security debt. By stepping in to address that now, you are actually paying it forward. The second best time, is after you realize you should have done that. Post-breaches or post incidents, is a really great time to come in and look at your culture because people are willing to suspend their beliefs of what good behavior looks like, what's acceptable and when you look at an organization and their culture, it is most valuable after a time of crisis, public or otherwise, and that is a really great time to consider it. >> I think that human error is a huge thing, whether it's as trivial as leaving an S3 bucket open or whatever, I think it's going to get more acute with service meshes and cloud-native microservices. It's going to get much more dynamic and sometimes services can be stood up and torn down without any human knowledge, so there's a lot of blind spots potentially. This brings up the question of how does the collaboration piece, because one of the things about the security industry is, it's a community. Sharing data's important, having access to data, how do you think about that as the founder of a start-up that has a 20 mile steer to the future around data access, data diversity, blind spots, how do you look at that and how do you advise your clients to think about that? >> I've always been really pro data sharing. I think it's one of the things that has held us back as an industry, we're very siloed in this space, especially as it relates to human behavior. I have no idea, as a regular CISO of a company, if I am doing enough to protect my employees, is my phishing click (mumbles), are my malware download rates above normal, below or should I invest more, am I doing enough? How do I do compared to my peers and without sharing industry stats, we have no idea if we're investing enough or quite honestly, not enough in this space. And the second thing is, what are approaches that are most effective? So let's say I have a malware infection problem, which approach, is it this training? Is it a communication? Is it positive reinforcement, is it punishment? What is the most effective to leverage this type of output? What's the input output relation? And we're real excited to have shared data with Horizon Data Breach Report for the first time this year, to start giving back to the communities, specifically to help answer some of these questions. >> Well, I think you're onto something with this behavioral science intersection with human behavior and executive around security practices. I think it's going to be an awesome, thanks for sharing the insights, Miss Masha on theCUBE here. A quick plug for your company, (mumbles) you're funded, Series A funding, take us through the stats, you're hiring what kind of positions, give a plug to the company. >> So, Elevate Security, we're three years old. We have raised ten million to date. We're based in both Berkeley and Montreal and we're hiring sales reps on the west coast, a security product manager and any engineering talent really focused on building an awesome data warehouse infrastructure. So, please check out our website, www.elevatesecurity.com/careers for jobs. >> Two hot engineering markets, Berkeley I see poaching out of Cal, and also Montreal, >> Montreal, McGill and Monterey. >> You got that whole top belt of computer science up in Canada. >> Yeah. >> Well, congratulations. Thanks for coming on theCUBE, sharing your story. >> Thank you. >> Security kind of giving the next generation all kinds of new opportunities to make security better. Some CUBE coverage here in San Francisco, at the Moscone Center. I'm John Furrier, we'll be right back after this break. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel, along with it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, about 65,000 here in attendance, at AWS re:Invent 2019. You're watching theCUBE, and I am Stu Miniman, the host for this seg, and happy to welcome back to our program two of our CUBE alumni. Sitting to my right is Abby Fuller, who is the principal technologist for containers and Linux, with Amazon Web Services. Sitting to her right is Deepak Singh, Vice President of Compute Services, also with AWS. Thank you so much for joining us on the program. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thank you for having us. >> Stu: All right, so as I said, both of you have been on the program, and boy your team's been busy. I mean, one of the things I love, first of all, there is a roadmap for many of the things that are going on. So, we do understand what's happen in the future, but, Deepak, maybe just tell us a little bit about your group and kind of the main focus, and let's start there. >> Deepak: So, my group goes beyond containers. It includes things like Linux systems, our high performance computing organization. But for the purposes of re:Invent, let's stick to the containers org. The containers org owns all of AWS's containerized products. So that includes ECS, EKS, Fargate. We also own our service mesh offering, which is App Mesh. So the way I like to think about it is, it's the right way to build applications in the modern era group, and it's a team that stays quite busy, because this is such a hot space to be in. >> Stu: All right, so we're going to talk mostly about containers, but your shirt is talking about the Linux piece. Tell us what your shirt says. >> Deepak: Ahh, yes, this is the only right way to spell AMI. Unfortunately, my previous, when I was in New York, Corey was at the table interviewing me, and I wore this just for him. >> Stu: So, so, so, if it is AMI, then we're going to spend some time talking about EKS. >> Yes. (Abby chuckling) >> And Esses. >> Yes, which one? (Deepak laughing) We will figure that. For AWS is AWS, I think, is how we will do it. So, absolutely, we're not going to talk about ontological arguments in there. But, Abby, a whole lot of new services in the container space. I want to put a pin and put Fargate to aside for a second. >> Abby: Sure. >> Cause lots of things we want to dig into there. But a lot of other things have been announced, in like the last month or so. Maybe, give us a little bit of a view. >> Yeah, I think a couple big ones for us. So, Fargate and Spot, so run on spare Fargate Capacity for up to a 70% discount off of standard Fargate pricing. (mumbling) things like vulnerability image for scanning for images on ECR. We launched, over the last few days as re:Invent, a capacity providers for ECS, which let's you run, split your traffic between on-demand and spot instances in the same cluster. We also launched something called Cluster Auto Scaler. So, some finer-grained control over how your cluster scales in on ECS. >> Stu: All right, want to take a quick step back. So , Fargate, announced a couple of years ago. >> Deepak: Yep. >> Was only first supported on ECS. Definitely, I've talked to lots of customers, very excited about it. >> Deepak: Yep. >> Maybe talk to us a little bit about how Fargate fits in the whole container discussion. >> Deepak: Yeah. >> And we'll hit with the news. >> Yeah, and, actually, a good way to think about it is from a native US standpoint. If you're a customer running containers, the way we think about our services is: You need a place to store those containers, so that's ECR. You could use your own registry, you could pick a third party one, that's fine. But most of our customers just use ECR. Then you pick your containers carrier. That's either ECS or EKS depending on your preferences. And then you need to figure out where you want to run your containers. And, of course, when we launched ECS five years ago, at re:Invent, there was only one way to do it: On EC2 instances. And two years ago, we added in what in our mind is a cloud native natural way to run containers, which is Fargate. So Fargate serves as a runtime compute engine for containers, and you can pick your scheduler on top of it, and go make hay with your applications. So that's kind of how we think the hierarchy works, and it works pretty well for most customers. They'll start off often with EC2 and move to Fargate over time or mix and match, and it's kind of fascinating to see how many customers of ours have decided they want to be all-in on Fargate. Which is a great place to be for us. >> Stu: Okay, but the big news which actually got a good cheer in the key note yesterday, is Fargate for EKS. So what's the importance of this? >> Yeah I think (mumbling) I think it's saying we've been talking to customers about for a while and it's the ability to run your Kubernetes pods on Fargate Capacity. I think it's really speaking to folks love Kubernetes as a tool and as a community, but it can be a pretty significant lift operationally. And with Fargate they can use APIs that they want or the open source tooling that they want but they don't have to worry about provisioning and managing that EC2 capacity. >> Stu: All right, so Deepak I actually was having a conversation with a good AWS customer, yesterday, and he said he actually started out on Kubernetes before EKS existed, on AKS. And migrated over to AWS when EKS became available. And he said Fargate really interests me, but one of the main reasons he does Kubernetes is he wants to have some portability, has some concerns that, he knows what services he uses and how if he needed to move something there, what do you say to customer that says Fargate's interesting me, but I'm concerned I'm going to get locked in if I buy into this model. >> I would say that he shouldn't worry about it, because of two reasons: maybe more than two. One is: the unit in Fargate that you interact with and work on is the same unit that you interact and work on with Kubernetes in general. Which is the Kubernetes pod. It's the broadspec, it's just a pod, no difference. You can take that same pod and run it on Timbuktu cloud and it will still run. So that's part one. The other one is that he's using the same tools, he's using coup CDL. And in fact you can mix and match your Kubernetes casters. You can run 95% of the application on Fargate, and five percent of it on EC2. All they are doing is changing the part annotation, and if you decide you want to run none of it on Fargate, you just flip that and suddenly everything is running on EC2 capacity. So actually think there's that much to worry about, because it's just the same pod. It's still the same tooling, the operational model is a lot simpler. >> So Abby, we've talked to you at DockerCon, and KubeCon, simplicity is not the word that we hear when we talk about this whole container space. >> Abby: Sure. >> Traditionally. How are we doing overall? I mean, I'm watching the community here, and it's like, wait, Fargate sounds cool but where's my persistent volumes? You know, where are we in, you know give us a little bit of the road map as to where we are to make this, you know, simple and managing more of my environment. >> Yeah, I think the way that I like to look at it, right, is that we've spent, and it's not just us, but we spent a lot of time looking at things like patterns and abstractions that help make these work flows easier for developers. And I think one of the launches that's interesting in that vein is the ECS CLI version two, which we launched a few days ago. And that will help you deploy like a production ready containerized application. It'll help you with the CICD angle, it'll help you with the monitoring and the observability. So I think it's about abstracting away, and adding patterns on top to make some of these common operations and work flows really modular and repeatable, and extendable. And then it's about having the ability to customize where I need to. So being able to run on Fargate, but also to use work loads running on EC2 where I need to, and being able to mix and match, and to focus my energy where I really get any benefit from customizing, rather than having to do the whole thing from the ground up. >> Stu: You know, feedback I've gotten from my friends and the app dev community, is that hybrid is more and more becoming a standard deployment model. Obviously things like outposts and some of the other solutions from Amazon are extending the AWS model of doing things, but many of them also look at just Kubernetes, >> Deepak: Yep >> as a layer to do that. How should we be thinking of this from your solutions? >> Deepak: Yeah, so I thought without both, though, if you noticed in Andy's announcement yesterday, among the list of services available on day one were ECS and EKS. And actually app meshes well weren't on the list, but app meshes available on our post on day one as well. I think when we think about customers who want to run and stay in their own capacity and their own data centers, because EKS is built on (mumbling) Kubernetes with no modifications, the same application, as long as they're running on upstream Kubernetes, on their side, will just run on EKS. And there's a number of models that work there. A great model is the kind that SisCo is running, where they will manage it for you in both places. They become the first person you call, and on AWS it's just EKS. And on premise (mumbling) it's what SisCo has decided to build. Our pro-serf team will also help you by example. So I think there's a number of modes that work there but the key part, and it's the reason why we have stayed with (mumbling) stream Kubernetes, is we never want to make someone say, oh we can't use EKS because they're (mumbling). Somehow modified Kubernetes, and I think that is super important for us. >> Stu: Yeah, I mean Abby I know you're an active participant in the community, what do you say to people that look at Amazon, Deepak you talked a little bit about Fargate. You don't need to be concerned to the same images, so speak a little bit, maybe if you could, to Amazon's community participation, and what you're generally hearing from your customers. >> Abby: Yeah, so I think the root of it right is that we're all building with the same building blocks. I think something that Amazon has been really strong at is open sourcing primitive. So, Firecracker last year, I think was a good example. And we, I think we do really well with saying we built this to solve a problem for us, but we think you might want it too. And in terms of community support, we have been open sourcing more over the last year, we open source our road maps in November last year. We run developer previews off the GitHub road map, App Mesh has a public preview channel as well, so we've been trying to involve the community participation earlier and earlier in our product development life cycle, so that, especially with things like service mesh, where it's really pretty new, we can make sure that we have the voice of all our users and our customers, and there, as early as possible. But to get their hands on keyboards to try it out as soon as they can. >> Deepak: And actually a great example of that is, a word that Weave Works has done. Talking about people who can run Kubernetes on AWS and on premises, they have this project called "Weave Ignite" where they're basically running Kubernetes on Firecracker on premises. And then on AWS a customer just runs on EKS, as an example. And that, I think that part has been not everybody realizes that this is possible. But I think the fact that people are doing it is, excites us a lot. >> Stu: All right, I know you're both meeting with a lot of customers this week, maybe Deepak start with you. Any surprises or any misconceptions other than I know there a lot of people wearing teal shirts, with a certain pronunciation. But bring us inside some of the mind set of your customers here. >> Deepak: So actually, our conversation is very consistent. I think the community as a whole, our customer base has a whole, they all want to get to the same place. How can we move really quickly? How can we give our developers the ability to be more productive? Without putting our company at risk, having the right level of governance? Having the right controls, in place? And I think that's mainly consistent theme across the board. I guess the one thing that would be hard to remind people of a little bit, is a lot of people often think Fargate sits on top of ECS and EKS, it sits below that, and actually the fact that now there is an EKS Fargate, people understand that more quickly. Before that it was a little trickier. But other than that, I think our customers almost all. They come from different places, have very similar problems, they want developers to move quickly and develop deliver business value, and platform engineering teams that we speak to want to figure out how to get out of the way. And that's been great! >> It's interesting, Abby, I love your view point from the developer community Andy talked on stage about very much, to do true transformation, there needs to be the leadership driving things down. I'm curious what you're seeing, customers you're talked to, people you had, cause many of these tools we're talking about, you know, started in the developer world. >> Yeah, I mean there's been, like an increasing amount of curiosity around the cultural side of it. So how can I get my team to work like that? How can I get my team to ship more safely, more quickly, but getting operations out of the way? And I think you see more and more interest in that. So how can we build the tools that work the way our developers do? So we get all the thing that we want, so security and compliance and availability. The developers get what they want, which is easy work flows that match the way they want to work. So you see a lot of curiosity around that. So how do we get to the place where we can run everything on Fargate, and benefit from all the new serverless, severless style (mumbling). >> Stu: All right, real quick just give you the final word. Any websites, or events, or things that people should know when they want to learn more and get engaged? >> Yeah, I think I'd send people first and foremost to the GitHub public road maps. It is the easiest, fastest way to let us hear your voice, and what you want to see us build next. I think especially these next couple weeks coming out of re:Invent, as people start to get their hands on what we announced, think I'm really curious for them to take that back, and then be like, this is great, but here's what I want to see next. And I'd love to see that happen on the road maps. >> Yeah, about a month or so ago, maybe a couple months, we started a dedicated blog for containers on AWS site. One of the nice things about it is a lot of the contributors to that blog site are principal engineers, and engineers in our organization. For example, one of our, the principal engineers in my org are Malcolm Featonby, has a whole blog post on how should to think about scaling and best practices. I think I would encourage people who've now seen what we have, all the new services we're developing, and that's where you'll get the details on how you can use them, how we built them, and I encourage everybody to go to that blog site and check out what we're doing. >> Stu: All right, Deepak, Abby, congratulation to you and your team, great progress, and really appreciate (mumbling) are able to look at the road map, and definitely hope to catch up with you both soon. >> Abby: Thanks so much! >> Thank you so much. >> Stu: All right, I'm Stu Miniman, and back with much more, right in a second, thank for watching theCube. (Techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS reInvent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel along with it's Ecosystem partners. >> Well, welcome back, everyone theCUBE's live coverage in Las Vegas for AWS reInvent. It's theCUBE's 10th year of operations, it's our seventh AWS reInvent and every year, it gets better and better and every year, we've had theCUBE at reInvent, Jerry Chen has been on as a guest. He's a VIP, Jerry Chen, now a general partner at Greylock Tier One, one of the leading global Venture capitals at Silicon Valley. Jerry, you've been on the journey with us the whole time. >> I guess I'm your good luck charm. >> (laughs) Well, keep it going. Keep on changing the game. So, thanks for coming on. >> Jerry: Thanks for having me. >> So, now that you're a seasoned partner now at Greylock. You got a lot of investments under your belt. How's it going? >> It's great, I mean look, every single year, I look around the landscape thinking, "What else could be coming? "What if we surprise this year?" What's the new trends? What both macro-trends, also company trends, like, who's going to buy who, who's going to go public? Every year, it just gets busier and busier and bigger and bigger. >> All these new categories are emerging with this new architecture. I call it Cloud 2.0, maybe next gen Cloud, whatever you want to call it, it's clear visibility now into the fact that DevOps is working, Cloud operations, large scale operations with Cloud is certainly a great value proposition. You're seeing now multiple databases, pick the tool, I think Jassy got that right in his keynote, I believe that, but now the data equation comes over the top. So, you got DevOps infrastructure as code, you got data now looking like it's going to go down that same path of data as code where developers don't have to deal with all the different nuances of how data's stored, how it's handled, where is it, warm or cold or at glacier. So, developers still don't have that yet today. Seems to be an area of Amazon. What's your take on all this? >> I think you saw, so what drove DevOps? Speed, right? It's basically how developers shows you operations, merging of two groups. So, we're seeing the same trend DataOps, right? How data engineers and data scientists can now have the same speeds developers had for the past 10 years, DataOps. So, A, what does that mean? Give me the menu of what I want like, Goldilocks, too big, too small, just right. Too hot, too cold, just right. Like, give me the storage tier, the data tier, the size I want, the temperature I want and the speed I want. So, you're seeing DataOps give the same kind of Goldilocks treatment as developers. >> And on terms of like Cloud evolution again, you've seen the movie from the beginning at VM where now through Amazon, seventh year. What jumps out at you, what do you look at as squinting through the trend lines and the fashion of the features, it still seems to be the same old game, compute memory storage and software. >> Well I mean, compute memory storage, there's an atomic building blocks of a compute, right? So, regardless of services these high level frameworks, deep down, you still have compute networking and storage. So, that's the building blocks but I think we're seeing 10th year of reInvent this kind of, it's not one size fits all but this really big fat long tail, small instances, micro-instances, server lists, big instances for like jumbo VMs, bare metal, right? So, you're seeing not one architecture but folks can kind of pick and choose buy compute by the drip, the drop or buy compute by the whole VM or whole server full. >> And a lot of people are like, the builders love that. Amazon owns the builder market. I mean, if anyone who's doing a startup, they pretty much start on Amazon. It's the most robust, you pick your tools, you build, but Steve Malaney was just on before us says, "Enterprise don't want power tools, "they're going to cut their hand off." (laughs) Right so, Microsoft's been winning with this approach of consumable Cloud and it's a nice card to play because they're not yet there with capabilities with Amazon, so it's a good call, they got an Enterprise sales force. Microsoft playing a different game than AWS because they have to. >> Sure I mean, what's football now, you have a running game, you need a passing game, right? So, if you can't beat them with the running game, you go with a passing game and so, Amazon has kind of like the fundamental building blocks or power tools for the builders. There's a large segment of population out there that don't want that level of building blocks but they want us a little bit more prescriptive. Microsoft's been around Enterprise for many many years, they understand prescriptive tools and architectures. So, you're going to become a little bit more prefab, if you will. Here's how you can actually construct the right application, ML apps, AI apps, et cetera. Let me give you the building blocks at a higher level abstraction. >> So, I want to get your take on value creations. >> Jerry: Sure. >> So, if it's still early (mumbles), it's took a lot more growth, you start to see Jassy even admit that in his keynotes that he said quote, "There are two types "of developers and customers. "People want the building blocks "or people who want solutions." Or prefab or some sort of more consumable. >> More prescriptive, yeah. >> So, I think Amazon's going to start going that way but that being said, there's still opportunities for startups. You're an investor, you invest in startups. Where do you see opportunities? If you're looking at the startup landscape, what is the playbook? How should you advise startups? Because ya know, have the best team or whatever but you look at Amazon, it's like, okay, they got large scale. >> Jerry: Yeah. >> I'm going to be a little nervous. Are they going to eat my lunch? Do I take advantage of them? Do I draft off them? There are wide spaces as vertical market's exploding that are available. What's your view on how startups should attack the wealth creation opportunity value creation? >> There, I mean, Amazon's creating a new market, right? So, you look at their list of many services. There's just like 175 services out there, which is basically too many for any one company to win every single service. So, but you look at that menu of services, each one of those services themselves can be a startup or a collection of services can be a startup. So, I look at that as a roadmap for opportunity of companies can actually go in and create value around AI, around data, around security, around observability because Amazon's not going to naturally win all of those markets. What they do have is distribution, right? They have a lot of developer mind share. So, if you're a startup, you play one or three themes. So like, one is how do I pick one area and go deep for IP, right? Like, cheaper, better, faster, own some IP and though, they're going to execute better and that's doable over and over again in different markets. Number two is, we talked about this before, there's not going to be a one Cloud wins all, Amazon's clearly in the lead, they have won most of the Cloud, so far, but it'll be a multi-Cloud world, it'll be On Premise world. So, how do I play a multi-Cloud world, is another angle, so, go deep in IP, go multi-Cloud. Number three is this end to end solution, kind of prescriptive. Amazon can get you 80% of the way there, 70% of the way there but if you're like, an AI developer, you're a CMO, you're a marketing developer, you kind of want this end to end solution. So, how can I put together a full suite of tools from beginning to end that can give me a product that's a better experience. So, either I have something that's a deeper IP play a seam between multiple Clouds or give it end to end solutions around a problem and solve that one problem for our customer. >> And in most cases, the underlay is Amazon or Azure. >> Or Google or Alley Cloud or On Premises. Not going to wait any time soon, right? And so, how do I create a single fabric, if you will that looks similar? >> I want to riff with you in real time here on theCUBE around data. So, data scale is obviously a big discussion that's starting to happen now, data tsunami, we've heard that for years. So, there's two scale benefits, horizontal scale with data and then vertical specialism, vertical scale or ya know, using AI machine learning in apps, having data, so, how do you view that? What's your reaction to the notion of creating the horizontal scale value and vertical specialism value? >> Both are a great place for startups, right? They're not mutually exclusive but I think if you go horizontal, the amount of data being created by your applications, your infrastructure, your sensors, time stories data, ridiculously large amount, right? And that's not going away any time soon. I recently did investment in ChronoSphere, 'cause you guys covered over at CUBEcon a few weeks ago, that's talking about metrics and observability data, time stories data. So, they're going to handle that horizontal amount of data, petabytes and petabytes, how can we quarry this quickly, deeply with a lot of insight? That's one play, right? Cheaper, better, faster at scale. The next play, like you said, is vertical. It's how do I own data or slice the data with more contacts than I know I was going to have? We talked about the virtual cycle of data, right? Just the system of intelligence, as well. If I own a set of data, be it healthcare, government or self-driving car data, that no one else has, I can build a solution end to end and go deep and so either pick a lane or pick a geography, you can go either way. It's hard to do both, though. >> It's hard for startup. >> For a startup. >> Any big company. >> Very few companies can do two things well, startups especially, succeed by doing one thing very well. >> I think my observation is that I think looking at Amazon, is that they want the horizontal and they're leaving offers on the table for our startups, the vertical. >> Yeah, if you look at their strategy, the lower level Amazon gets, the more open-sourced, the more ubiquitous you try to be for containers, server lists, networking, S3, basic sub straits, so, horizontal horizontal, low price. As you get higher up from like, deep mind like, AI technologies, perception, prediction, they're getting a little bit more specialized, right? As you see these solutions around retail, healthcare, voice, so, the higher up in the stack, they can build more narrow solutions because like any startup of any product, you need the right wedge. What's the right wedge in the customers? At the base level of developers, building blocks, ubiquitous. For solutions marketing, healthcare, financial services, retail, how do I find a fine point wedge? >> So, the old Venture business was all enamored with consumers over the years and then, maybe four years ago, Enterprise got hot. We were lowly Enterprise guys where no one-- >> Enterprise has been hot forever in my mind, John but maybe-- >> Well, first of all, we've been hot on Enterprise, we love Enterprise but then all of a sudden, it just seemed like, oh my God, people had an awakening like, and there's real value to be had. The IT spend has been trillions and the stats are roughly 20 or so percent, yet to move to the Cloud or this new next gen architecture that you're investing companies in. So, a big market... that's an investment thesis. So, a huge enterprise market, Steve Malaney of Aviation called it a thousand foot wave. So, there's going to be a massive enterprise money... big bag of money on the table. (laughs) A lot of re-transformations, lot of reborn on the Cloud, lot of action. What's your take on that? Do you see it the same way because look how they're getting in big time, Goldman Sachs on stage here. It's a lot of cash. How do you think it's going to be deployed and who's going to be fighting for it? >> Well, I think, we talked about this in the past. When you look to make an investment, as a startup founder or as a VC, you want to pick a wave bigger than you, bigger than your competitors. Right so, on the consumer side, ya know, the classic example, your Instagram fighting Facebook and photo sharing, you pick the mobile first wave, iPhone wave, right, the first mobile native photo sharing. If you're fighting Enterprise infrastructure, you pick the Cloud data wave, right? You pick the big data wave, you pick the AI waves. So, first as a founder startup, I'm looking for these macro-waves that I see not going away any time soon. So, moving from BaaS data to streaming real time data. That's a wave that's happening, that's inevitable. Dollars are floating from slower BaaS data bases to streaming real time analytics. So, Rocksett, one of the investors we talked about, they're riding that wave from going BaaS to real time, how to do analytics and sequel on real time data. Likewise, time servers, you're going from like, ya know, BaaS data, slow data to massive amounts of time storage data, Chronosphere, playing that wave. So, I think you have to look for these macro-waves of Cloud, which anyone knows but then, you pick these small wavelettes, if that's a word, like a wavelettes or a smaller wave within a wave that says, "Okay, I'm going to "pick this one trend." Ride it as a startup, ride it as an investor and because that's going to be more powerful than my competitors. >> And then, get inside the wave or inside the tornado, whatever metaphor. >> We're going to torch the metaphors but yeah, ride that wave. >> All right, Jerry, great to have you on. Seven years of CUBE action. Great to have you on, congratulations, you're VIP, you've been with us the whole time. >> Congratulations to you, theCUBE, the entire staff here. It's amazing to watch your business grow in the past seven years, as well. >> And we soft launch our CUBE 365, search it, it's on Amazon's marketplace. >> Jerry: Amazing. >> SaaS, our first SaaS offering. >> I love it, I mean-- >> John: No Venture funding. (laughs) Ya know, we're going to be out there. Ya know, maybe let you in on the deal. >> But now, like you broadcast the deal to the rest of the market. >> (laughs) Jerry, great to have you on. Again, great to watch your career at Greylock. Always happy to have ya on, great commentary, awesome time, Jerry Chen, Venture partner, general partner of Greylock. So keep coverage, breaking down the commentary, extracting the signal from the noise here at reInvent 2019, I'm John Furrier, back with more after this short break. (energetic electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Splunk .Conf19. Brought to you by Splunk. >> Welcome to theCUBE everybody, we're here in Las Vegas for Splunk's .Conf, I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE, here with Lisa Martin for the next three days. Lisa will be here tomorrow and the next day. I'm going to be carrying it solo, this is our seventh year .Conf, Splunk's conference celebrating their 10th year. Our first guest is Melissa Zicopula, vice president of managed services of Herjavec Group. Robert's been on before, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> I always get that, Herjavec? >> Herjavec Group. >> Herjavec Group. >> Happy to be here. >> Well known for the Shark Tank, but what's really interesting about Robert and your company is that we had multiple conversations and the Shark Tanks is what he's known for in the celebrity world. >> Melissa: Yes. >> But he's a nerd, he's a geek, he's one of us! (laughing) >> He's absolutely a cyber-security expert in the field, yes. >> So tell us what's going on this year at .Conf obviously security continues to be focus you guys have a booth here, what's the message you guys are sharing, what's the story from your standpoint? >> Yeah, so we do, Herjavec we're focusing on managed security services, where information security is all we do, focusing on 24/7 threat detection, security operations and also threat management. So, we want to be able to demo a lot of our capabilities, we're powered by Splunk, our HG analytics platform uses, heavily uses Splunk on the back end. So we want to be able to showcase for our customers, our clients, our prospects different types of use cases, different types of ways to detect malicious activity, while leveraging the tool itself. >> And data we're been covering since 2013, Splunk's .Conf, it's always been a data problem, but the data problem gets bigger and bigger, there's more volume than ever before which shifts the terms to the adversaries because ransomware is at an all time high. >> Melissa: Sure. >> Data is where the value is, but that's also where the attack vectors are coming from. This isn't going away. >> Absolutely, yeah, we want to focus on not just what type of data you're ingesting into your instance but to also understand what types of log sources you're feeding into your sim today. So we have experts actually focus on evaluating the type of log sources we're bringing in. Everything from IPS, to AV, to firewall you know, solutions into the sim so that way we can build use cases those, to be able to detect different types of activity. We leverage different types of methodologies, one of them is Mitre framework, CIS top 20. And being able to couple those two together it's able to give you a better detection mechanism in place. >> I want to some kind of, clarification questions because we talked to a lot of CSOs and CIOs and and CXOs in general. >> Melissa: Sure. >> The roles are changing, but the acronyms of the providers out in the market place are specializing, some have unique focuses, some have breadth, some have depth, you guys are an MSSPP. So, MSSPP, not to be confused with an MSP. Or ISV, there's different acronyms, what is the difference between an MSSPP versus an MSP? >> Melissa: Correct, so it's, we are a MSSP, which is a Managed Security Service Provider. And what we do is just, we're focused on we're very security-centric. So information, security is all we do everything from threat detection, we even have a consulting advisory role where we're actually doing penetration exams. We're PCI compliant, obviously SOC operations are the bread and butter of our service. Whereas, other MSPs, Managed Services Providers, they can do anything from architecture, network operations in that purview. So, we're focused on more of SIM solutions, endpoint, being able to manage any of your security technologies. And also, monitor them to take a fact into the SOC. >> So you guys are very focused? >> Melissa: Very focused on security. >> Then what's the key decision point for a customer to go with you guys, and what's the supplier relationship to the buyer because they're buying everything these days! >> Melissa: Sure. >> But they want to try and get it narrowed down so the right people are in the right place. >> Melissa: Yeah, so one of the great things about Herjavec Group is we are, you know, we're vendor agnostic, we have tons of experts in, you know, expertise resources that monitor, manage different types of technologies. Whether it's Splunk and other technologies out there, we have a team of people, that are very, very, you know, centric to actually monitor and manage them. >> How big is Splunk, in relative with your services? How involved are they with the scope? >> Melissa: Over 60% of our managed clients today, utilize Splunk, they're heavy Splunk users, they also utilize Splunk ES, Splunk Core, and from a management side, they're implementing them into their service. All of the CSOs and CROs or CIOs are leveraging and using it, not just for monitoring and security but they're also using it in development environments, as well as their network operations. >> So, one of the things I've been, I won't say preaching, because I do tend to preach a lot, but I've been saying and amplifying, is that tools that have come a long in the business and there's platforms and Splunk has always kind of been that, a platform provider, but also a good tool for folks. But, they've been enabling value, you guys have built an app on Splunk, the proprietary solutions. >> Absolutely. >> Could you tell me about that because this is really where the value starts to shift, where domain expertise focused practices and services, like you guys are doing, are building on someone else's platform with data, talk about your proprietary app. >> Absolutely, so we discovered, a few years ago, was that customers needed help getting to the data faster. So we were able to build in built-in queries, you know literally one click, say if you wanted to get to a statistical side of how many data sources are logging your SIM, is the data, you know, modeling complete, you know, is there anything missing in the environment or are there any gaps that we need to fill? You're able to do it by just clicking on a couple of different, you know, buttons within the tool itself. It gives you a holistic view of not just the alerts that are firing in your environment but all the data log sources that are coming into your SIM instance. It's a one stop shop. And also, what's great about it, is that it also powers Splunk ES, so Splunk ES also has similar tools and they are, literally, I mean that tool is so great you can go in, you can look at all the alerts, you can do an audit trail, you can actually do drill-down analysis, you can actually see the type of data like PCAP analysis, to get to the, you know, the type of activity you want to get to on a granular level. So, both tools do it really well. >> So you have hooks into ES, Splunk ES? >> Yes, we can actually see, depending on the instance that it's deployed on, 'cause our app is deployed on top of Splunk for every customer's instance. They're ale to leverage and correlate the two together. >> What are some of the trends in the marketplace that you're seeing with your customers? Obviously, again, volumes are increasing, the surface area of attacks is coming in it's more than log files now, it's, you got traces, you got other metrics >> Melissa: Sure. >> Other things to measure, it's almost It's almost too many alerts, what do you-- >> Yeah, a lot of KPI's. The most important thing that any company, any entity wants to measure is the MTTD, the Mean Time To Detection, and also mean time to resolve, right? You want to be able to ensure that your teams are have everything at their fingertips to get to the answer fast. And even if there's an attack or some type of breach in their environment, to at least detect it and understand where it is so they can quarantine it from spreading. >> What's the biggest surprise that you've seen in the past two years? I mean, 'cause I look back at our interviews with you guys in 2013, no 2015. I mean, the narrative really hasn't changed global security, I mean, all the core, top line stories are there, but it just seems to be bigger. What's the big surprise for you in terms of the marketplace? >> The big surprise for me is that companies are now focusing more on cyber-hygiene. Really ensuring that their infrastructure is you know, up to par, right? Because you can apply the best tools in-house but if you're not cleaning up you know, your backyard (laughing) it's going to get tough. So now we have a lot of entities really focusing and using tools like Splunk you know, to actually analyze what's happening in their environment, to clean up their back of house, I would say and to put those tools in place so they could be effective. >> You know, that's a classic story clean up your own house before you can go clean up others, right? >> Right. >> And what a trend we've been seeing in the marketplace on theCUBE and talking to a lot of practitioners is, and channel partners and suppliers is that, they tend to serve their customers, but they don't clean up their own house and data's moving around so now with the diversity of data, they've got the fabric search, they got all kind of new tools within Splunk's portfolio. >> It's a challenge, and it could be you know, lack of resources, it just means that we have you know, they don't have the right expertise in-house so they used managed security providers to help them get there. For example, if a network, if we identify the network being flat, we can identify you know, how to help them how to be able to kind of, look at the actual security landscape and what we need to do to have good visibility in their environment from places they didn't know existed. >> What's the one, one or two things that you see customers that need to do that, they aren't doing yet? You mentioned hygiene is a trend, what are some other things that that need to be addressed, that are almost, well that could be critical and bad, but are super important and valuable? >> I think now a lot of, actually to be quite honest a lot of our clients today or anyone who's building programs, security programs are getting you know, very mature. They're adopting methodologies, like Mitre Framework, CIS Top 20, and they're actually deploying and they're actually using specific use cases to identify the attacks happening in their environment. Not just from a security-centric standpoint but also from an operations side you know, you could identify misconfigurations in your environment, you can identify things that are you know, just cleaning up the environment as well. >> So, Splunk has this thing called SOAR, Security-- >> Automation. >> Orchestration Automation Recovery, resilience whatever R, I think R stands for that. How does that fit in to your market, your app and what you guys are doing? >> So it definitely fits in basically, being able to automate the redundant, mundane types of tasks that anyone can do, right? So if you think about it, if you have a security operations center with five or 10 analysts, it might take one analyst to do a task, it might take them two or three hours, where you can leverage a tool like Phantom, any type of SOAR platform to actually create a playbook to do that task within 30 seconds. So, not only are you minimizing the amount of you know, head count to do that, you're also you know, using your consistent tool to make that function make that function you know, more, I want to say enhanced. So you can build play books around it, you can basically use that on a daily basis whether it's for security monitoring or network operations, reporting, all that becomes more streamlined. >> And the impact to the organization is those mundane tasks can be demotivating. Or, there's a lot more problems to solve so for productivity, creativity, can you give some examples of where you've seen that shift into the personnel, HR side the human resource side of it? >> Yeah, absolutely so you know, you want to be able to have something consistent in your environment, right? So you don't want others to get kind of, get bored or you know, when you're looking at a platform day in and day out and you're doing the same task everyday, you might miss something. Whereas, if you build an automation tool that takes care of the low hanging fruit, so to speak, you're able to use a human component to put your muscles somewhere else, to find some you know, the human element to actually look for any types of malicious anomalies in the environment. >> How much has teamwork become a big part of how successful companies manage a security threat landscape? >> Very, very important. I mean, you're talking about leveraging different teams on the engineering side, on the operations side, even you know, coupling that with business stakeholders. You absolutely need to get the business involved so they have an understanding of what's critical to their environment, what's critical to their business, and making sure that we're taking security, obviously seriously, which a lot of companies know already, but not impeding on the operation. So doing it safely without having to minimize impact. >> Well let's just, I got to ask you this question around kind of, doing the cutting edge but not getting bled out, bleeding edge, bleeding out and failing. Companies are trying to balance you know, being cutting edge and balancing hardcore security Signal FX is a company that Splunk bought, we've been following them from the beginning. Strong tracing, great in that cloud native environment. So cloud native with micro services is super hot in areas you know, people see with Kubernetes and so on happening, kind of cutting edge though! >> Melissa: Right. >> You don't want to be bleeding edge 'cause there's some risks there too so, how do you guys advise your clients to think about cloud native with Splunk and some of the things that they're there but as the expression goes "there's a pony in there somewhere" but it's risky still, but certainly it's got a lot of promise. >> Yeah, you know, it's all about you know, everyone's different, every environment's different. It's really about explaining those options to them what they have available, whether they go on the cloud, whether they stay on-prem, explaining them from a cost perspective, how they can implement that solution, and what the risks are involved if they had and how long that will take for them to implement it in their environment. >> Do you see a lot of clients kicking the tires in cloud native? >> A lot of customers are migrating to cloud. One, because they don't have to keep it in a data warehouse, they don't have to have somebody manage it, they don't have to worry about hardware or licenses, renewals, all that. So, it's really easy to spin up a you know, a cloud instance where they can just keep a copy of it somewhere and then configure it and manage it and monitor it. >> Melissa, great insight, and love to have you on theCUBE, I got to ask you one final question >> Melissa: Sure. >> As a, on a personal note well, personal being you're in the industry you know, I hear a lot of patterns out there, see a lot of conversations on theCUBE. One consistent theme is the word scale. Cloud brings scale to the table, data scaling, so data at scale, cloud at scale, is becoming a reality for customers, and they got to deal with it. And this also impacts the security piece of it. What are some of the things that you guys and customers are doing to kind of one, take advantage of that wave but not get buried into it? >> Absolutely, so you just want to incorporate into the management life cycle, you know you don't want to just configure then it's one and done, it's over. You want to be able to continually monitor what's happening quarter over quarter you know, making sure that you're doing some asset inventory, you're managing your log sources, you have a full team that's monitoring, keeping up with the processes and procedures, and making sure that you know, you're also partnering with a company that can can follow you you know, year over year and build that road map to actually see what you're building your program, you know. >> So here's the personal question now, so, you're on this wave, security wave. >> Melissa: Sure. >> It's pretty exciting, can be intoxicating but at the same time, it's pretty dynamic. What are you excited about these days in the industry? What's really cool that you're getting jazzed about? What's exciting you in the industry these days? >> Automation, absolutely. Automation, being able to build as many playbooks and coupling that with different types of technologies, and you know, like Splunk, right? You can ingest and you can actually, automate your tier one and maybe even a half of a tier two, right, a level two. And that to me is exciting because a lot of what we're seeing in the industry now is automating as much as possible. >> And compare that to like, five years ago in terms of-- >> Oh absolutely, you know, SOAR wasn't a big thing five years ago, right? So, you had to literally sit there and train individuals to do a certain task, their certain function. And then you had to rely on them to be consistent across the board where now, automation is just taken that to the next level. >> Yeah it's super exciting, I agree with you. I think automation, I think machine learning and AI data feeds, machine learning. >> Michelle: Right. >> Machine learning is AI, AI is business value. >> Being able to get to the data faster, right? >> Awesome, speed, productivity, creativity, scale. This is the new formula inside the security practice I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. More live coverage here for the 10th anniversary of Splunk .Conf, our seventh year covering Splunk from a start-up, to going public, to now. One of the leaders in the industry. I'm John Furrier, we'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live, from Denver, Colorado. It's theCUBE, covering Commvault GO 2019. Brought to you by Commvault. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman, we are at Commvault GO '19 in Colorado. Stu and I are pleased to welcome a couple of guests joining us this next segment we have Kevin Haro, Infrastructure from Quad, and Matt Tyrer, Senior Manager, Solutions Marketing from Commvault. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE. >> Oh, it's great to finally be here! >> Yeah, exciting stuff in the last couple days. So Kevin, let's start with you. Give our audience an understanding of Quad, what kind of business you're in, what services and products you deliver. >> Quad is first and foremost a printer so we do large-scale, long-run printing. We've got locations across the country and Latin America and Europe. So from a data perspective we have our own internal apps and stuff, obviously, but for the most part our large chunks of data come straight from our customers, so. >> Lisa: And what kind of customers are we talking about? >> Customers, magazines, books, anything of that nature. Anybody who needs long-run signs, we do it all, packaging. >> Okay, so talk to us about kind of your role and from a data perspective how it's exploding. (Kevin & Matt laugh) >> It seems to be growing every day, that's true. So the data that comes in from our customers we treat it, we improve it, we add to it and then we have to get it back to them, make sure everything's okay, and then it goes to the printers and then it needs to be saved. So you can imagine that piles up pretty quickly. >> Now is it just that the actual images themselves are getting bigger? Like the content that's coming towards? Or is it also that your customer base is growing and expanding too? So it's the individual customers are getting bigger but also you're getting bigger as well from a Quad perspective. >> Yes, both, all three actually. So you can imagine just the amount of images that go into a catalog and how every single one of those came in. Even though it might be an inch or two big on your page it came in full-res, so it adds up quick. >> All right, Kevin why don't you walk us through what led you down the path to Commvault. If you can give us a little bit of the before, and the process that led to choosing Commvault. >> The initial reason we came into Commvault was actually partially backup related, but we were actually in the middle of a site lifecycle so we were looking to upgrade the hardware at 12 different sites and we wanted to switch the hypervisors at those sites and Commvault provided us the means to do that quickly and easily without us having to rebuild all of those systems. So that was our first introduction to it. That went very well for us. We're doing another round coming up here very soon. And so we've done all that, and now actually we're taking a step back and actually going with a Commvault backup solution itself. >> And what was the hypervisor before and now? >> Those were VMware to HyperView. >> Okay, yeah, Matt, maybe walk us through is that a typical use case that you see out there? Migrations are often one of the most challenging things for infrastructure people. We used to say it was the four-letter word when you're told to migrate something. (Matt laughs) But yeah, take us inside. >> Well I mean, you see, it doesn't have to be just a hypervisor to hypervisor migration. You see it just every day with people shifting workloads into the cloud. And in this case here, it's not a same-for-same movement necessarily. So it could be VMware on one site like what you guys were doing, changing into HyperV. Or it could be simply moving from VMware maybe on-premises to native AMIs in AWS. So you're seeing a lot of people kind of decoupling from that hypervisor layer or at least abstracting it, because it's more about the data itself, and less where the data happens to reside. So I think that's going to continue to be something that we see more and more of, as people continue to move into that multiple cloud environment. Did you guys also move in to the cloud too, as part of this? Or this is just in on-prem? >> Kevin: We have not made a huge on-cloud investment at this point in time. But the story that we've been hearing on the cloud the multicloud and the avoiding the lock-in holds true for us, just at the hypervisor level. We don't want to be kept to decisions that were made five, 10 years ago just because it's hard to get off of a specific hypervisor or piece of software. >> Matt: Yeah. >> So it gives us the flexibility to do what we're looking to do. >> So we talked a little bit about the proliferation of data, both from the actual images and the files getting larger and larger and larger, then growth in the Quad customer base. Talk to us about what you were doing to backup data before because you were using somebody else before you decided to make the move over to Commvault. >> We have been using somebody else. We've actually been using four somebody elses. >> Lisa: Can you tell us who those four somebody elses are? >> Our primary one's were EMC, but aside from that, in smaller offices we had other solutions as well. So we've heard the complexity of Commvault is an issue and we were afraid of it as well but that complexity really doesn't stand up to teaching someone how to restore off of four potentially different systems and four different architectures in general. So getting everything under that one pane of glass is an end goal for sure. >> Was it really the compelling event? or was there maybe an issue like we were hearing on stage this morning with one of the Commvault customers saying "Hey, we had a big failure"? Was there a compelling event or was it, we've got four different solutions in here. We need that single pane of glass 'cause the data has so much value but if we can't see it. >> Kevin: It's really the single pane of glass. I mean, in order to maintain that interconnected web of backups we actually had to home grow our own system just to be able to look up where the backup was to begin with. And while that works, it's effective, it's an extra step that has to be taken in the middle of a recovery process. >> Well, Matt, you started your time at Commvault in the field so bring us a little bit, some of the competitive landscape that you see out there. Consolidating onto a single vendor, obviously, is something we see all the time when there's M&A activity or you've got branch offices and the like. >> Yeah, I mean, it's certainly not uncommon to come across customers in Quad's situation where they've got one product over here one product over there. And I think a lot of it stems from IT was in such a reactive mode for so long that it's almost trying to play catch up. It's like, well we have to address protecting the virtual machines. Okay, we'll draw up a solution in for that. We have to protect the data at the remote site. Well, I can't get my enterprise solution there so I'll drop another band-aid solution in out there. And we're finally getting to that maturity where people are able to go back and re-examine some of those infrastructure decisions made five, 10 years ago and starting to rectify it by being able to bring that data together and consolidate. And so that's kind of what I've always liked about from a Commvault perspective, is that comprehensive coverage Pretty much whatever it is, wherever it is you can get that single pane of glass. And there's a lot of stuff that we can do and data environments are certainly not getting less complex (laughs). >> Well, talk to us about the complexity, Kevin, 'cause at all the shows that we go to complexity is always a topic that we hear for every technology and every customer is looking to reduce complexity, increase agility, all the buzz words right, flexibility, simplicity. You said, very candidly, that when you were looking at the hypervisor switch and when it came time to evaluate the backup solutions, you were concerned about Commvault's complexity. We've heard a lot in the last day and a half about simplicity, reduced complexity. How have you found this implementation in terms of the previous complexity concerns and do you have that single pane of glass that you were looking for? >> Kevin: The complexity, the problem didn't really occur to us. I mean, we were walked through by our vendor very nicely. They got us through, they got us our SOP's built. We've been able to roll it out successfully. We started with some of our hardest sites after that migration product. We started with the ones that were behind double nets and are actually at customer locations behind fire walls we don't own. The ones that have been a problem for us for years to secure those backups and those were where we started and that's where we've actually had some pretty decent success. I mean there is obviously a lot of settings and stuff to be worked through and to have a guide sit there and walk us through and make sure we're getting the backup and the retention that we need. At the end of the day, we've got the backups going and they're working well. >> And that's kind of what we were striving to do when we introduced the Commvault command center was for the customers that don't need to go to that level of detail provide a much more streamlined interface with a lot of the heavy automation elements in it. So customers that don't need those deep controls and customizations can work within that command center. But the ones that do, and actually what's entertaining is a lot of our long-term customers prefer working in that deeper complexity. Because it's like "Oh, I like how I can tune it like this "or I can flip it like that." So it's nice that our customers have the option of working where they feel most comfortable. >> And Matt, I'd love to get your perspective you've been with Commvault for 12 years. >> Matt: Almost, yeah. >> We feel like the last day and a half and we'll say Sanjay really kicked this off yesterday by saying #newCommvault. (Matt laughs) And it does feel like that with the changes to the leadership, the changes to the partner organization and partner programs, the focus on mid market with Metallic, with the Hedvig acquisition. Your perspective on being at Commvault for quite a long time, how do you see the company now? >> It's refreshing when you've been with a company for a long time just to see how we're able to shift how we're talking about ourselves, and it's almost like a brand new level of confidence. You see the smash of color everywhere and just the way that we talk about the solutions, the way we talk about the company as well. It's been a lot of change going on, but it's been exciting to kind of see that next evolution of the company in terms of taking that company to the next step and see what the future holds. So I've been really excited to see all of these changes over the past year and continue to see. (laughs) >> So Kevin you've walked us through from the migration that you did initially to the solutions that you're using today. Where are you looking forward for what you might use with Commvault? And any of the new things that were announced this week catch your eye that you might want to be looking into further when you get back to the office? >> Obviously Kubernetes has been floating around for a while so there's solutions here that we've been looking at, but we really want to get our fundamental backup and retention system to the point where it is no longer consuming whole days of FTEs. So where there's a report that comes out, we can check it, we know that it's good. We don't have to babysit that product, and we can get on to some other larger projects, things of that nature. We can get on to worrying about some of the bigger issues making sure that we're ready for a cyber event, things of that nature. >> All right, you did mention Kubernetes. Where are you as a company with that? Data protection, obviously you need to-- >> Matt: I knew you were going to go there (laughs) >> Worry about, even multicloud. I'll be at KubeCon, maybe see you there. (laughs) >> The first ones have just been rolled out recently they're in, they're up, that's about where that is. >> Matt: Just starting, baby steps. >> Baby steps, yes. But we'd like to do the baby steps correctly so technologies that make sense. >> That's great that you're kind of shifting or it looks like anyway to getting a lot more automated in terms of what you're doing within the Commvault. I met with or I was manning a customer panel yesterday with just a bunch of customers sharing what they were doing from moving towards that self-driving backup or at least backup or managing by exception where the less hands-on you can be, the more time that you've got back into your day to focus on other projects, so yeah. >> Exactly. So yeah, I mean, we're at a point right now where we are obviously switching, so we want to look ahead and make sure that we're set and ready to go for the future. >> So Kevin, last question for you, in the last nine months there's been some pretty big changes at Commvault the new leadership, new focus on routes to market, how do you internalize that, in terms of this direction, this Commvault 2.0, this new Commvault as an existing customer? >> Well, we're a new customer to them so to see the energy that's coming at us is refreshing. To see them placed in the upper quadrants obviously helps sell the product to us for management to back our decisions up, so in general the whole range seems to be getting met and we're not having to say this does everything except X, Y, and Z. >> Excellent, well, Kevin, Matt, thank you for joining Stu and me on the program this afternoon at GO we appreciate your time. >> Thanks. >> Thanks for having us. >> Lisa: Our pleasure >> Take care >> For Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE from Commvault GO '19 (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE. Covering UiPath Forward Americas 2019. Brought to you by UiPath. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of UiPath Forward here at the Bellagio in Las Vegas. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my co-host Dave Vellante. We are joined by Craig Le Clair, he is the vice president of Forrester and also the author of the book "Invisible Robots in the Quiet of the Night: How AI and Automation will Restructure the Workforce". Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Craig: Thank you! Thanks for having me. >> And congratulations, it's already made #11 on Amazon's AI and automation bestseller list. >> Wow, it's not quite best seller but OK, that's great, thank you, it's doing well. >> So if anyone calls your book a bestseller you just take 'em on that. >> (Craig) I'll just take it. >> So it is a, it's a bleak story right now, I mean there's a lot, there's so many changes going on in the workforce and there's so much anxiety on the part of workers that they're going to lose their job that all these technologies are going to take away their their livelihood, so how are companies managing this? Are they managing it well, would you say, or is the anxiety misplaced? Give us an overview. >> Yeah, so I don't think companies are really aware of the broader implications of the automation and AI that's developing. They tend to focus on the things that companies focus on. They focus on more efficiency and productivity and so forth, and underlying that is this digital anxiety that we call it, and the fact that a lot of the jobs that we, particularly the middle class have, the working class have, are the targets of the invisible robots, and that's really the point of the invisible robot book is that there's a lot of media attention on the hardware aspects of robotics, in fact the Super Bowl last year had 10 commercials with hardware robots. But if you look at this conference you look at the number of people here. What are these people doing? They're going back to their companies and saying "You know, this UiPath, and there are other providers "in the market, we can build software robotics, "we can build bots to do some of these tasks "that a lot of these humans are doing." And while there is elevation of the human capability in spirit for many of them, there's also a comfort level in employees that do things that they have control over, have incited. And when you extract those you are left with a series of more exciting moments, perhaps, but it's not going to make you more relaxed as an employee. And then you look at the overall job numbers, and our estimates are very conservative compared to some of the other reports, that are 45, 50% of workers over 10 years being displaced. We think it's 16%, but still, when you look at just the US numbers, that's of 160 workers today, 160 million workers, that's a lot of people. >> Rebecca: It is indeed. >> So, displaced and then sort of re-targeted or? >> A percentage, >> Vaporized. >> No, no, well the 16% is the automation, is the net loss of jobs. Now in that, automation's expensive, so there are a tremendous number of new jobs that are created by the work that's been going on here. So we have a formula to calculate that for these 12 different work personas, and the work personas have different relationships to AI and automation, so you would be crossed so many knowledge workers and be very well protected for a long time. >> Rebecca: All right, there we go. >> So you're good, but... for coordinators, people that have clip boards in their hands, for those who work in cubicles, they're going to have a lot of people leaving those cubicles that aren't going to be able to migrate to other personas. And so we have a changed management issue, we need to start driving more education from the workplace through certification, and that's a really critical thing I'll talk about tomorrow, that the refresh of technology with automation is 18 months to 24 months, you can't depend on traditional education to keep up, so we need a different way to look at training and education and for many it's going to be a much better life, but there's going to be many that it will not be. >> What was the time frame for your net 16% loss? >> 10 years. >> 10 years, okay, to me a lower net loss number makes sense, and in fact if you can elongate your timeline it probably shows a net job creation, you can make that argument anyway I don't know if you. >> Craig: It's being made. >> Dave: You don't buy it though? >> I don't, the world economic foundation and others are having huge net new numbers for jobs based on AI. Some of the large integration companies that want to build AI platforms for you are talking about trillions of dollars that would be added value to the world economy, I just don't buy it, and you know the reason I wrote this book was because what's going on here is very quietly preparing to displace a lot of efforts starting with relatively small tasks, it's called task automation but then expanding to more and more work and eventually adding a level of intelligence to the task automation going on here, that's going to take a lot of jobs. And for most of those 20 million cubicle workers, they have high school educations. You know, the bigger problem is this level of anxiety, you know, you go into almost any bookstore and there's a whole section For Dummy books, and it's not, is it because we have this sort of cognitive recession or because there's a, it's because the world's getting faster and more complicated. And unless you have the digital skills to adapt to that, the digital skills gap is growing. And we need to have as much focus that you see here and energy on building automation. We need to have an equal amount of focus on the societal problems. >> Yeah, it really comes down to education, too. I mean if I were able to snap my fingers and transform the educational system, there might be a different outcome but that's very unlikely to happen. Craig, one of the things we talked about last year was you had made the statement that some of these moonshot digital transformations aren't happening for a variety of reasons but our PA is kind of a practical way to achieve automation. >> Still very true. >> Have you seen sort of a greater awareness in your client base that, "You know, hey, maybe we should dial down "some of these moonshots and just try to "pick some clear winners." >> Yeah, we have a number of prediction reports coming out from Forrester and they're all saying basically that. I'm doing reports on what I'm calling the intelligent process automation market and that's really our PA plus AI, but not all aspects of AI. You know, it's AI that you can see in ROI around, you know it's AI that deals with unstructured documents and content and email. It's not the moonshot, more transformative AI that we have been very focused on for a number of years. Now all of that's very very important. You're not going to transform your business by doing task automation even if it's a little more intelligent and handles some decision management, you still need to think about "How do I instantiate "my business algorithmically," with AI that's going to make predictions and move decision management and change the customer experience. All that's still true, as true as it was in 2014/2015, we're just seeing a more realistic pull back in terms of the invested profile. >> Well, and so we've been talking about that all day, it is taking automating processes that have been around for a long time, and you, I think identified this as one of the potential blockers before, if you get old processes that are legacy and I think you, you gave the story of "Hey, I flew out here "on American Airlines in the old SABRE system." How old are those processes, you know? We've, you know the old term "paving the cow path." So the question is, given all the hype around RPA, the valuations, et cetera, what role do you see RPA having in those sort of transformative use cases? >> Well here's the interesting thing that was, I think, somewhat accidental by the, you know what really changed from having simple desktop automation? Well you needed some place to house and essentially manage that automation, so the RPA platforms had to build a central management capability. UiPath calls that the orchestrator, others call it the control tower, but when you think of all the categories of AI none of them have a orchestration capability, so the ability to use events to link in machine intelligence and dispatch digital workers or task automation to coordinate various AI building blocks as we call them and apply it to a use case, that orchestration ability is pretty unique to the RPA platforms. So the sort of secret value of RPA is not in everything that's being talked about here but eventually is going to be as a coordinating mechanism for bringing together machine learning that'll begin in the cloud, conversational intelligence that might be in Google. Having the RPA bots work in conjunction with those. >> But if I recall, I mean that's something that you pointed out last year as well that RPA today struggles with unstructured data that... >> Well it can't do it. >> You're right, we've talked about it NLP versus RPA, RPA, given structured data, I can go after it. >> That's the RPA plus AI bit, though. I mean, you take text analytics layer, and you combine it with RPA bots and now you have the unstructured capability plus the structured capability that RPA does so well. And, with the combination of the two, you can reach. I think what the industry needs to do or the buyers of RPA need to take the pressure off this immediacy of the ROI. In a sense, that's what's driven the value. I can deploy something, I can get value in a few months but, to really make it effective and transformative you need to combine it with these AI components, that's going to take a little longer, so this sort of impatience that you see in a lot of companies, they should really step back and take a look at the more end to end capabilities and take a little hit on the ROI immediately so that you can do that. >> No, I mean I can definitely see a step function, okay, great, we've absorbed that value, we get the quick ROI, but there's, to your point there's got to be some patient capital to allow you to truly transform in order for RPA, I don't want to put words in your mouth, to live up to the hype. >> Absolutely, I totally agree. And I am still very, very high on the market, I think it's going to do extremely well. >> Well, if you look at the spending data, it's quite interesting. I mean RPA as a category is off the charts. You know, UiPath, from the, your last wave kind of took the lead but, Automation Anywhere, Blue Prism spending, even in traditional incumbents, maybe not even RPA, maybe more "process automation" like Pegasystems. Their spending data suggests that this is the rising tide lifting all boats so, my question to you is, how do you see this all shaking out? I mean, huge evaluations, the bankers are swarming around. You saw them in the media yesterday. You know, at some point there's got to be a winner takes most. The number two guy will do pretty well and then everybody else kind of consolidates. What's your outlook? >> Well, there are a lot of emerging players coming into the market and, part of my life is having to fend them off and talk to them, and the RPA wave is coming out in a week. It's going to have four new players in it. Companies like SAP. >> Well, they acquired a company right? >> They acquired and they built internally, and have some interesting approaches to the market. So you are going to see the big players come into the market. Others I won't mention that'll be in the market in a month It's getting a lot of attention. But also I think that there are domains, business domains that, the different platforms can start to specialize in. The majors, the UiPaths to the world, will be horizontal and remain that way. And depend on partners to tailor it for a particular application area. But you're going to see RPA companies come into the testing market, software testing market. You're going to see them come into the contact centers to deal with attended mode in more sophisticated ways perhaps than those that don't have that background. You're going to see tailored robots that are going to be in these robot communities that are springing up. That'll give a lot of juice to others to come into the market. >> And like you say you're going to see, we've talked about this as well Rebecca, the best of breed versus the suite, right? Whether its SAP, Inforce talking about it, I'm sure Oracle will throw its hat in the ring I mean, why not, right? Hey, we have that too. >> Well, if you're those companies that the RPA bots are feasting on, they're slowing the upgrades to your core platforms, in some ways making them less relevant, because their argument has been, let's integrate, you get self integration when you buy SAP, when you buy Oracle, when you buy these big platforms. Well, the bots actually make that argument less powerful because you can use the bots to give you that integration, as a layer, and so they're going to have to come up with some different stories I think if they're going to continue to move forward on their platforms, move them to the cloud and so forth. >> So, finally, your best advice for workers in this new landscape and how it is going to alter their working lives. And also, your best advice for companies and managers who are, as you said, maybe not quite, they're grappling with this issue but maybe not and they're not being disingenuous to workers about who's going to lose their jobs, but this idea of as they're coming to terms with understanding quite all of the implications of this new world. >> Yeah, I know, I'm presenting data tomorrow that shows that organizations, employees, and leaders are not ready and I have data to show that. They're not understanding it. My best advice, I love the concept of, it's not a Forrester concept, it's called constructive ambition. This is the ability in an employee to want to go a little bit out of the box, and learn, and to challenge themselves, and move into more digital to close that digital skills gap. And, we have to get better at, companies need to get better at identifying constructive ambition in people they're hiring, and also, ways to draw it out. And to walk these employees up the mountain in a way that's good for their career and good for the company. I can tell you, I'll tell a few stories on the main stage last night, I interviewed Walmart employees and machinists that could no longer deal with their machine because they had to put codes into it so they had to set it up with programming steps and the digital anxiety was such that they quit the job. So a clear lack of constructive ambition. On the other hand, a Walmart employee graduated from one of their 200 academies and was able to take on more and more responsibility. Somebody with no high school degree at all. She said, "I've never graduated "from anything in my life. "My kids have never seen me "succeed at anything, and I got this certification "from Walmart that said that I was doing this level "of standard work and that felt really, really good." So, you know, we, companies can take a different view towards this but they have to have some model of future of work of what it's going to look like so they can take a more strategic view. >> Well Craig, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. It was a really great talk. Another plug for the book, "Invisible Robots in the Quiet of the Night" you can buy it on Amazon. >> Craig: Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante, stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of UiPath Forward. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Washington D.C., it's theCUBE, covering Boomi World '19 brought to you by Boomi. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of Boomi World 2019 from D.C. I'm Lisa Martin. John Furrier is my co-host for the next couple of days. And we're very pleased to welcome back to theCUBE the Boomi CEO, Chris McNabb. Chris, welcome back! >> Lisa, it's great to be here. It's always fun. >> The energy that you guys kicked off everything with this morning, the keynote, it was awesome, it was electric. I love the numbers that you started with. Boomi World '18 was about 11 months ago and we were talking, I was watching those videos back the other day, you had about 7500 customers then. You now have over 9000 customers in 80 plus countries, over 1500 endpoints integrated, 580 partners, I could go on and on, 97% renewal rate. (laughs) >> Keep selling! >> It's amazing, though, the momentum that you guys have carried into D.C. in just a short time period. Tell us about that. >> Lisa, it's really been the result of not only hard work by our team, we continue to innovate for our product and bring new things to market. But it's our customers that drive adoption and we use customer references to gain new customers and it's their stories that resonate with the new prospects that come onboard. It's our 580 partners making sure that when our customers and prospects buy into the Boomi platform that they get implemented and they shorten the timeframe and they bring intelligence and smarts and it's our community. It's the 65,000 people that are already there solving problems, that are helping our newer customers get onboarded and get success early. So it's those four legs of the stool. It's the entire ecosystem that continues to go, all of us are going along for the ride. >> Last year we asked you what you were investing in, your team as well. And the theme was pretty consistent across the board. Product first and foremost. 'Cause the product is continuing to grow and enabling platform, some great stuff there go to market, and then the customer success equation, not customer success organization, although you have a lot there, the equation... Where are you guys this year on those three points? >> Yeah, so tremendous investment in the product. You're going to hear tons of announcements. My announcements are the tip of the iceberg. We've got huge announcements in API management and the things that we're doing there. There's event-driven architecture announcements, there's the conversational AI; we're adding voice to integration platform service, with the help of Accenture. So you can now talk to your platform and interact with your enterprise applications. That's just the tip of the iceberg on the product side. We've got data hub things and so on. When we look at the other parts, John, particularly around customer success, we're doing really well there. Our customer success rate, our retention rate is now 95-96%. Our customer satisfaction was around 97%. And it's our customer success organization that helps make sure our services are being implemented, our partners are doing the right thing, success and outcomes are being delivered, and we engage to make sure that happens. If you need a little bit of Boomi help, Boomi help comes. And we partner over the success of that, and I think when you look at the key KPIs around churn and retention, as well as customer SaaS, I think we're doing a really nice job there. >> On the follow-up on that, one of the things we've been observing and reporting on SiliconANGLE and theCUBE is the successful companies are the ones that have, that was a great product, but in the cloud era, data's a big part of it. You guys have unified data platform. We talked about this last year, how you have anonymous data, you mentioned on your keynote that you get insights. So this is again, Coupa software does this, a lot of the successful profitable companies have a nice business model, by leveraging the data. How does that fit into the equation for customer success? I want you to explain the equation specifically. I mean, you guys have great format for customer focus, I get that, but what is the equation now that you have this unique modern value proposition? >> Yeah I think the equation for us is quite simple. So we do leverage all the metadata. Every single process that's ever been run, we know how long it took, did it have an error? We know how people build connections, we have that meta, we leverage that for our customers. When we look at our customers, we have a life cycle that we walk them through. When you're talking about the equation, we have a framework, a life cycle. How do we engage in sales to make sure sales is not overselling it? How do we get them to close so they look at us as a partner? How do we make sure the implementation goes well? Will they view it alone, with a partner, or with us? Get them to success. Get them through a renewal, and then how can we help them land and expand and do more things in their enterprise to continue the winning success that they established initially. >> You talked this morning revealing Boomi's competitive, unfair competitive advantage in customers, one of the things that we talk about, Chris, at every show and you probably talk about this all the time, too, is data. It's the new oil. It's gold. It's the lifeblood of a business. Yes! If an organization, whether it is an incumbent established business that might have brittle technology and disparate systems, if that type of company can't actually see all the data, have the visibility, and ensure that all of the endpoints are sharing from a single source of truth, that data value is capped, right? You guys leveraging that. I think it's over 30 Terabytes of anonymized metadata? >> Chris: It is. >> Is a great example of unlocking the power of the data that you have to make your customers better, to make them more successful and keep them, which you've obviously done. >> Yeah, it's a part of the ecosystem play that I continuously talk about. As customers use our platform, they instill it with their knowledge, experience, and their expertise. What we do, as a pure cloud provider, because I store how they map this field to that field, how long this process took, and all of these kind of things to make up that repository, I can now, as a cloud platform lever that up. And I can increase the productivity for everybody in the ecosystem. So as customers put a little bit in themselves, they get a 10x return or a massive return out, in terms of productivity and leverage that our platform's able to provide, but it takes both of us together to do that. >> Chris, I want to talk about the hard news this morning. You guys announced with Accenture, a big partnership around conversational AI. Accenture was on stage, their brand, their expertise, coming together with you guys, in a joint partnership. Could you explain, for a minute, what that is about? Just take a minute to explain the partnership and the solution specifically. >> Yeah, so when you look at conversational AI, it's the use of natural language, right? To work with technology, and you can't preprogram it, you have to understand the variations of things, you have to understand voice as identity, so when I say my pipeline report, it knows it's me, it's my authorization, it gets my data. Accenture brings the conversational AI experience, technology, and solutions to the table. And we're now linking and partnering that into our integration capabilities and connective capabilities. So as a net result, people can talk to their phone and interact with their workflows, and interact with their datastores to get data, approve workflows, etc, in a very natural way, >> What is Boomi do and what does Accenture do? 'Cause they're involved with you. You guys have a team, you're teamed up. What's the relationship? Take a minute to explain the relationship. Who's doing what? >> So, Accenture brings much of the voice capabilities. So when we mentioned this morning that language isn't a barrier, I'd like to offer up this service in Spanish and French and English, etc. Accenture does all of that work. So they're the natural language processing there, the language independent part of that, and we're all the connectivity part. We are the workflows, we are the integration. Accenture feeds us something, whether it comes, it can come in multiple languages over WhatsApp, chat, voice, it doesn't matter, comes to me, and then we do the natural unlocking of the data. >> That's their converse piece, that converse and Boomi, working together? >> Yeah, so B in the Boomiverse, you mean? >> John: Yeah. >> So, Boomiverse and B, the introduction of our astronaut B, who going to lead you on a mission through our community and be your bot. It's a working bot and we're going to leverage that kind of capability through that as well. >> One of the interesting things about the conversational AI is that we all as consumers have interacted probably pretty recently with a call center for something. And I love how Leticia, who's going to be on from Accenture later today with John and me, was talking about, we've all been there going, "Agent, agent, agent." And a few months ago, while working for theCUBE, I realized, oh actually, as frustrating as it is sometimes, we have the opportunity to help train the models. But I'd love to get your perspective on what Boomi and Accenture are seeing in organizations, executive suites about the perception of conversational AI and the impact. They see the impact possibilities that Accenture and Boomi can bring, and are they ready for that? >> I think there's going to be a bit of an educational process with leaders in the business, but if you look at Leticia's, I think, second slide, where she says, "Seven million dollars being spent "on password resets with humans." When voice is your identity, you don't need that anymore. You don't have to remember passwords. You don't have to reset things. The immense benefit for organizations is huge. 25% reduction in Op-Ecs. That's going to get people's attention. They're going to have to work our way through it, and we're going to work through the process with them. Okay, let's do a small thing, let's try it out, let's get it working, let's scale it, and let's get it to enterprise. >> It speaks to integration opportunity. I mean, voice, video, other mediums, it's an integration game. That's what you guys are doing. And that's the whole benefit of Boomi. I'd love to get your thoughts on your success formula and how you guys are going to ride this wave going forward, 'cause you have a modern infrastructure, modern solution, you get projects off the ground quickly for customers, you get the value quickly. This is a mega trend. People, they don't want projects back at them, they want to get them done quick. You guys are solving that big problem. What's next? Where are you investing? What's your thoughts on the business? What do you do? >> Well in terms of what's next, so we really did go after the entire transformation problem. Integration's not just data to us. It's people. It's devices, it's your processes, right? So we look at it holistically, we've done that. We brought intelligence in so now we're providing insights, data privacy insights that we talked about in the keynotes, conversational AI and that's the start. But we've got to do a better job of dashboards, other insights, what is the return on investment of a Boomi purchase and how much is it helping? To what degree is transform making a bottom line impact in your business? Having the analytics to support that is going to be big. >> Lisa and I were talking on the intro round, you can't hide success anymore. You can't hide the ball. 'Cause your instrument, the outcomes, and the outcomes are either you're getting paid for value, or you're achieving a mission, whether it's the veterans or the American Cancer Institute, usage of an app, you can't hide the ball anymore! It's either success or not. You guys are very customer centric. Hundreds of use cases, best practices. This is your focus. The people part of success has been a missing link in the digital transmission: process, technology, people, culture. You guys are breaking through. Is that because the winds people are getting? Is that the energy? Is that the people? What's the people equation on your end? You've been so successful with, you guys are having success there. >> The Boomi culture, when we talk internally, who are we and what do we value? One of the first things we talk about is, we are customer-first. What that means to us is outcomes matter. It's not about buying our technology. It's not about getting data; it's about an outcome. And we talked a lot about outcomes today. In fact, at this show, throughout all the presentations, there will be roughly 100 different customer outcome stories that are shared globally. So when we talk about breaking through, because we want to partner with them and join them in their goal, and whatever it takes to do that, that starts to resonate. It's taken a while to resonate, but now it really is, and when you feel the energy on the floor, I hope you guys feel the same thing, it's just enormous and it's really starting to grow and we couldn't be happier. >> One of the cool things that I heard yesterday, Chris, I have had the opportunity to talk to a number of your customers in the last week who said, I always say, "Tell me about the differentiators, "the technical differentiators." The cloud native always comes up, the low-code. We talked yesterday about CFOs becoming citizen developers, and I thought, Wow, really? Do they know that? But on the business side, resoundingly, customers are saying cultural alignment. "Boomi understands our business." And so what you guys are enabling on the transformation of people side, as John mentioned, you're delivering that because it was one of the things that customers have said that was one of the deciding factors in going with Boomi, and they'll say, "We evaluated A, B, and C." And this cultural alignment. Yeah, I mean, Boomi has fans and it sounds kind of cliche to say, it's true! >> I appreciate that, and that is really great to hear! I stood up on stage last year and this year, and repeated the phrase, "I don't want to be their software vendor." I don't think of it that way. Nobody on my team thinks about it that way. We're building. I want to be your transformation partner. I want to be a part of, a piece of, how you're moving your business forward. Whatever it takes to do that: workflows, mobile applications, data integration, warehouse problems, insights. We can get engaged in all of that. We can go end to end in your enterprise, to open it up for you, and then provide access for your customers in ways you never dreamed of. And being a part of that is just an awesome thing for us. >> Chris, I want to get your reaction to some comment Michael Dell made, two comments Michael Dell made to me on theCUBE. 2014, I asked him, besides VMWare, the crown jewel of Dell technologies, what are you excited about? He said "Pivitol." He was fixated on Pivitol at that time. Okay, Pivitol goes public. They get bought back into the fold, it's all going on. Last year at this event, I asked him, What are you focused on this year? Now what's getting your focus? He goes, "Boomi." What's your reaction to that? Because you know Michael, when he gets fixated on something, things happen. What's your reaction to that? >> My reaction is "Thank you, Michael, "for the brand awareness." I certainly appreciate that. Certainly when he focuses on 'em, it gets attention. We have, the Boomi business as it gets capitalized by Dell has had 100% executive support everything we've ever asked for as a leadership team, we've gotten and then some. Could not be a better situation for this business, the Boomi business, and then what Michael does for it, and as we push that forward, I believe and he believes that data is the fuel of AI in the future. It's going to be all about data, and Boomi sits right in the middle of that. >> And he likes to look under the hood, too. He's not just a business guy; he's a techie. So he's looking under the hood, he likes what he sees (laughs). Of course! >> When he talks to me about it, he's been pleased with the results to date, I'll say that. >> Excellent. Well, we have this, great, as we wrap things up, a story that is near and dear to, not just my heart, but many hearts. Talk to us about what this is. What Boomi is doing with the American Cancer Society, which I think is just phenomenal. >> Lisa, I really appreciate it. So, this morning, and I'll just kind of hold this up for a moment, but, this morning we had the American Cancer Society as one of our reference customers, how they completed nine projects in 14 months, one of which impacted 30,000 patients achieving 500,000, half a million rides, and integrated together 150 partners to make sure people could get to their life saving treatments and back, and it's a volunteer network. We're happy to be a part of that. So we undertook a cause. We're going to have a pass the baton for the American Cancer Society here at Boomi World. And every time we pass the baton, $2, $1 from us, being matched by Dell Technologies makes it $2, and we're going to pass the baton here, hoping to crush it and get to a $20,000 donation. So if I could pass the baton to each of you-- >> Lisa: Absolutely! >> That's $2, >> That's four. >> John, if you'd keep doing it, I want to ring the bell, I want to crush this for the American Cancer Society. >> That's awesome! >> Pass it to the team. >> Exactly, throw it over there! >> Chris: Pass it around to everybody, let's keep this thing hopping. >> Don't throw it! >> Well Chris, that is-- >> We'll pass it around. >> Such an outstanding story. There are so many, as you said. There's going to be a 100 different customers talked about here over the next probably, started yesterday with Partner Summit today and tomorrow. That's a lot! We are happy to have a whole bunch of them on the program today and hear how many different use cases Boomi is facilitating. You guys have taken I-Pass way beyond connecting cloud to on-prem. It's edge, it's any data, any device, low-code. I know I'm speaking your language. >> I love it! >> But we're hearing that, we're feeling that, we're excited to be able to share that through theCUBE this week. >> Lisa, well listen, thank you for being here at Boomi World, it's always great to have you. It's great to talk to you. >> Lisa: Likewise. >> And I'm looking forward to a great show! >> John: Thank you for coming on. >> Well, thank you. >> Lisa: All right, our pleasure. >> Appreciate it. >> For Chris McNabb, and John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE from Boomi World 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from New York, it's The Cube. Covering AWS Global Summit 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and with my co-host Corey Quinn and we're here at AWS New York City Summit. Always happy when we have users on the program to tell their story, and joining us for the first time, Ahmad Haider who's the Lead Enterprise Data Science Architecter at AGCO, an agricultural company based down in Georgia. Ahmed thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> All right so, agriculture obviously y'know we understand in general, y'know the joke I have for most people is well luckily, your industry isn't going through much change (laughter) and of course yeah, that's the response we get in most but y'know give us the thumbnail, AGCO, how long's the company been around? The focus and y'know right, some of those changes that you're seeing in the industry. >> Sure, so let me start just about AGCO, so AGCO is about a 9.4 million dollar agricultural equipment manufacturer, it's been around for 20 plus years and we are well known in the industry so some of our famous brands like Valtra, Fendt, Massey. Coming back to your other question, we are not going through a lot of change, I get that very often and you know what, it was an eyeopener when I joined AGCO. So the farming industry is actually going through a lot of change, you must have heard of Agrotech and so the farmers now, they want better efficient solutions that will help them manage their farms while they focus on the core work of farming and they are looking at companies which manufacture agricultural equipment to help provide that digital support, help provide solutions that help manage a farm better, help them to provide the maintenance better, help them optimize the equipment and so on and that's where we are trying to help them out. >> Yep, so it's always easy to look at any industry and they're like oh they have it easy and it's not changing that much. You've got data science in your title, talk a little bit about your role inside the company, y'know we know how important data is to most companies but of course with a data scientist, it's your job to help unlock that power. >> Yeah, definitely. Let me give you a little bit of background and that will help frame this much better so AGCO realized the part of data a while ago but very recently they started working on this so something called a digital experience, digital customer experience program. What that does is basically it creates you a set of connected solutions that manage the data of our customers, our dealers, our part and machine data in a fast, reliable and secure manner and all these digital solutions that we are creating, they are powered through analytics to leverage new market insights, to unlock new opportunities, to help understand our customers better. So given that particular space, I help design the AGCO's data science vision, that involves, first of all, setting up a data science platform that enables us to maximize the user data that we have. Secondly, working with our business to identify analytics use-cases which could be a part of the product roadmap and build them out and then execute this on the data science platform and thirdly, from the point of view of architecture, understanding what things go in the design, making sure everything's state of the art, help the design document and making sure that we are staying right at the top in terms of agriculture, in terms of data science and pushing at the boundaries in all their products. >> What are the, I guess, hidden secrets of data science across the board as the sheer amount of time and effort that has to be put into data normalization before you can start getting useful information out of it, was that a significant concern given what you do? Or given the fact that you more or less control the entire thing and you can reformulate the data as it's ingested? >> That was a very valid concern, I mean what most people don't talk about is the quality of data. They only talk about the data science, the fancy things, so we had the same challenges. Our data was distributed in different places, had different formats, had different levels of cleanliness so what I did was, during the building of the data science platform, I recognized this challenge proactively and made sure that we do cleanse the data, we normalize it to a format that's usable for our use-cases but we don't do it all at once, we go use-case by use-case, we identify our business priorities, we normalize the data, we cleanse it, we normalize it, bring it to a format that can be used going forward and we do it with every use-case. Over time, majority of it will be normalized but that will take an incremental, gradual of course. >> All right, Ahmad bring us into the role of cloud in your environment. >> Sure, so cloud is a very important component, so historically, we were more like an on premises organization and when we went on cloud data, it was a very important change, more so from the point of view, if you think about it, for a company to migrate or position itself, transform itself into a software organization in terms of data science, you need a lot of accelerators, you need data scientists, you need infrastructure, you need data engineers and you need people to manage all of this and all that hiring talent takes time but what cloud does is, there's the ability to procure services on demand and something which is fully managed, all services, that allows you to overcome a lot of those barriers quickly while you have time to actually build other solutions on top of the cloud. Over time when we understand our processes better, our demands better, then we can think about, okay where does it make sense to go hybrid but cloud is that great accelerator that allowed us to set up this data analytics platform which we did in roughly about fifteen weeks. Before that I was working in another organization where we did this on premises and I can tell you it took at least like three times if not more, so that I mean, I think that's the real value of cloud apart from all it's machine learning services and everything. It helped us to accelerate that process easily. How, I guess, in the workflow that you'd wind up going through how close is the data that you're generating to the cloud? Are you doing this at the edge, are you doing this in the field in some cases? I guess where is the data entering your pipeline? >> Yeah, so there are different forms of data that we have, we have a lot of data that is customer-related data that essentially is more or less slow-moving data that we have in the organization. That constitutes the major bulk of the data, apart from that, we have data that are coming from machines which are these smart machines operating in the field and data comes through the satellite and comes to our servers. We also have data that comes from the edge from some of these machinery that are operating in the factory and from there you will get data on the edge. Among all these different data sources that we have, I would say the predominant, or the initial focus, the pillar focus is to first start with the data that we have in abundance, so that's essentially the customer data, our dealer data to be able to understand that better, derive new market insights but our focus is to go forward, getting data from these machines combining that with the soil data with the farming data, with the agronomy data to deliver these very precise, things like precise planting schedules, things like predictive maintenance of machines as they operate out in the field and things like value driven care. So those are things that we are hoping to do with this as well. >> Right, you mentioned machine learning, y'know where are you along your journey kind of with the MLAI and the like? >> That's a really good question, so AGCO as a whole, I think we are at different stages at different parts of the organization so a lot of the organization is focused on generating value through descriptive analytics and explorative analytics whereby we are exploring the data and we are finding these insights and then making decisions on top of them. We are going into the area of predictive analytics fairly recently, about a year so and we essentially, that is our next step so we went into predictive analytics, we are creating machine learning models, we are creating combined stat models. We are using services like SageMaker on the cloud, we are using Spark libraries, we are using Cyclone, we are using Arc, all of that to create predictive analytics solutions. So in terms of the technology that we use right now, it's actually pretty much state of the art, we have created our own model management engines. We are using what Amazon provides and we supplement them with what we have. So we are pretty much at state of the art in terms of current what we are doing. We're hoping to take that state of the art and apply it to large parts of the organization. >> So as you look at, I guess some of the higher level differentiated services coming down in the world of machine learning, do you find that a lot of what you're doing today and in a few years is going to be something that's being handled automatically and then you're able to focus on the more interesting parts of the work? Or is there really no end in sight for I guess sort of some of the current block and tackle that a lot of data scientists are sort of struggling with today? >> I'm sorry I couldn't hear a part of your voice >> No, my apologies. Just a you see things continuing to evolve in this space, are you finding, are you predicting that there's going to be more I guess higher level services that solve some of this problem for you or is a lot of it I guess, block and tackle, not really having a relief point in sight? >> That's a very good question, I get that very often. So, I would like to say the answer, it depends but I'll describe that answer. So there are some parts of this machine learning AI that I think will be solved by newer services, by technology going forward. You can take an example, I'll give you a concrete example, SageMaker, which is fairly recent offering by Amazon about a year ago that we started using SageMaker, it didn't have a lot of competence that it currently has and we had to build a lot of the competence to get towards something called model management. Now, we built all of that but lo and behold after we went, they actually added a lot of these. So over technology, they will take care of a lot of these things which you currently do by smart automation. Now smart automation can take care of a lot of things, it helps you identify when you need to retrain a model, it helps you to deploy a model, it helps you to identify the trigger points but what analytics, I mean, where I think the challenge will come is how to actually apply it to the business because that needs a lot of context and for that you need to understand where are these perfect pinpoints, where do you actually apply it? Does it make sense to use it in a prioritization model? Does it make sense to use it as a explorative model? Does it make sense to use an attribution model? And to help define that use-case in the beginning to essentially say going from a business landscape to come to a specific problem that you want to solve, that is a part that I think will take some time and can't be readily addressed by these technologies but everything down the line, I fairly see that in a few years all of that will be available. >> All right, Ahmad are you speaking here at the conference? >> No, I actually spoke at the keynote in Atlanta. >> Okay >> And the summit >> Great, give us a little about y'know what you get out of coming to some of the regional summits here from Amazon. >> Yeah definitely, so I get a lot out of it. So, the biggest thing is I get to know what are the different things that are happening in the industry from the point of business, so not just about technologies right. Like lots of different technologies coming on but how are people using it? How does it make an impact in their business? Because for me the intersection of technology and business is the key point. So coming to a lot of these regional summits where they have these different business partners, they come in and they describe their work and connecting with them. That, for me, is the main draw, apart from that there's the other piece which is you get to know about the different things that are being done in this space. For example, if you go to AWS summit, you get to know everything that is coming to the cloud and you can try and experiment that and you can basically create like a nice ecosystem. If you go to an Azure summit, you get something similar. So that state of the art is also important but more important is the draw, that intersection. >> And I guess just one followup on that is y'know the data scientist community is y'know, what are some of your best sources of y'know learning and sharing today? >> That's a very good question, data science is one of those aspects because two parts to it. I don't know, I mean now there are machine learning engineers too, so but one part is the technical part of this, to be able to create these models with pinpoint accuracy and the second is applications. So in terms of the first part of learning about creating these models, the best sources in that case would be self-learning, I have, I went through, when I was doing this, I did my PhD, I learned a lot of stuff and then I go through a lot of articles when new things come out, you go through them, once you have the different sources, there are lots of them. The second part, right, applications, I have found the best source of learning there is actually interacting with people who use these technologies. Interacting with people, let's say who have no experience of data science, they have experience of business and then working with them to understand how can you take this insight that's created out of a model and impart into business, for that there's no other substitute than just talking to people, understanding the pinpoints and then solving those. >> All right, well Ahmad thank you so much for giving the update on AGCO and your role inside. >> Thank you >> All right, for Corey Quinn, I'm Stu Miniman, we'll be back with more coverage here from AWS' New York City Summit. Thanks as always for watching the cube. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE... covering Accelerate '19. (electronic music) Brought to you by Fortinet. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We are at Fortinet Accelerate 2019 in Orlando, Florida. I'm Lisa Martin with Peter Burris. We've been here all day talking with Fortinet executives, with partners, really understanding the evolution of cybersecurity and how they are helping customers to combat those challenges to be successful. We're pleased to welcome back to theCUBE alumni John Bove, the VP of North America's channel for Fortinet. John welcome back to the program. >> Thanks for having me, great to see you both again. >> Likewise, so, so much going on today, some news coming out. The keynote this morning started with a lot of electricity around Fortinet's industry leadership, product leadership, there was a lot of growth numbers shared >> John: Yup >> There's also a lot of people here about close to four thousand. >> John: Close to four thousand people, yup. >> And you saying that a good percentage of that is partners, forty countries represented. What are some of the things from your perspective, that you've observed today, in terms of the reaction from the channel to all of this news coming out. >> Yeah so first off, the heritage of this event really was a partner conference going back to its infancy and you know as Fortinet continues to grow and our customer profile continues to you know, move up market, we've now invited customers. So it's really great the synergy that we have. We've got a number of partners with their customers coming to meetings and meeting with executives, and so it's just really fantastic. You know relative to the announcements about the partner program, we've seen really positive feedback. I think the program was introduced about a decade ago and it really was time for a refresh, and so, what we've done is, we want to bring a program to our partner community that, allows them to engage with us in how they see fit, and then we want to build the go to market that's a little bit more in tune with the market that exists here, as we're moving into the year 2020 and beyond. So we're really assimilating a reseller, MMSP and Cloud as types of partner go to markets, and organizing that all underneath the Fortinet partner program umbrella. We'll also be introducing a consultancy track because we want to insure that the assets within the network security expert program are available to those consultants that are working with customers on their journey to the Cloud, for instance, or through this digital transformation. And then finally we're introducing what we're calling a competency focus. So as Fortinet continues to grow as a company there's a number of competencies that we feel if we enable partners appropriately they're going to be able to benefit from. They're going to build a stronger business around the Fortinet Security Fabric. So, we're going to focus on SD-WAN, we're going to focus on Fabric, we're going to focus on Data Center, operational technologies and then S.A.C., because we do think, you know, S.A.C. operations, is an area, that cybersecurity and the number of tool sets are introduced, it's an area that we need to grow into as a company as well. >> Lots going on. >> Lot's going on, yes. >> So as you consider some of the challenges that your partners face, we talked a little bit about this with Patrice, partners, throughout the industry are hurting as they try to transition from a more traditional hardware to whatever's going to be the steady state, >> John: That's right >> with the Cloud and the Edge having such an impact. Education is crucial. You not just get your customers educated about how cybersecurity works, but your partners need to be increasingly educated so they can find those opportunities, niches, stay in business, help you engage, how's that playing out? >> My number one initiative as the channel leader is to drive partner competency and preference. And so, going back to competency, if we can build partner competencies, they're going to build a healthier, more margin rich business around the Security Fabric, which then, selfishly, is going to lead them to delivering more preference around Fortinet. But there's no doubt, it's a changing dynamics. Business models are changing on the fly. We're seeing evolution of VAR to MSP, and MSP to MSSP, and we are laser focused on capitalizing that. Our FortiSIEM technology for instance is, I really view as a Beachhead technology for us to go capitalize that MSP market in the mid-market. I think that the evolution of consumption to more of a consumption model away from a transactional acquisition, also lends itself to new and innovative programs that need to be delivered. In fact with our North American distributors, in the past six months, we've introduced hardware as a service, to reduce, you know, to position things as an operational expense, which may be more in tune with how customers are purchasing today, and we've introduced FortiSIEM for MSSP. The evolution of VAR to a service provider can be very capital intensive, and so one of the things that we've done with our hardware as a service and FortiSIEM for MSSP, we've really tried to reduce the cost of the entry point, and drive more day one margin opportunity for those partners. >> Let me build on that if I may Lisa, so Ken and Mike have done a pretty phenomenal job of steering Fortinet into the future and anticipating some of the big changes that have occurred. You guys have therefore pretty decent visibility into how things are going to play out, and are now large enough that your actually participating in making the future that >> Right >> Everybody else is thinking about. When you introduce a product, I mean, it takes a period of time for your partners to get educated, to up-skill, to really set themselves up to succeed in this dynamic world. Are you introducing educational regimens, competency tests, providing advice and council about the new competencies they're going to need, in anticipation to some of these, some of the roadmap of the, to the future that you see? >> Yeah, so two things I'll touch on there is you know, the NSC program has been wildly successful program for ... >> Peter: No what does NSE stand for? >> Network Security Expert so it's a training course where for a partner and you've got new team members coming on board, the NSE113 really enables them of how to position, you know, Fortinet, and what the challenges are in a network in a cybersecurity environment today. With the elements four through eight being more technical. We've seen over 200,000 certifications being adopted globally, so, I think, part of the visionary capabilities that Michael and Ken have, is they've incorporated the education piece of it, and so carrying that along, and so as we do introduce new products, it's built into the NSE modules. I'll point to one of the most successful things we did in 2018 was called Fast Tracks, and so we've basically taken the NSE content and put it into consumable two hour, hands on, technical labs for our partners and customers. We had a goal in 2018 to hit about a thousand people going through the Fast Track program, we hit over eight thousand people. So, we know that there is a thirst for knowledge out there and the company's done a really good job, through the NSE program, the Network Security Expert Program, through out Network Security Academy Program, and through our Fast Tracks to drive that necessary enablement. >> Peter: That's very exciting. >> Yeah I know absolutely, I mean, it's a fantastic time to be at Fortinet, its a fantastic time to be a Fortinet partner, and I think with the announcements that we made today, we're really trying to set our partners up for success, and help them build a all encompassing business around the Security Fabric. It's a very noisy industry out there. There's a lot of point based solutions that, that lack the integration and really you need an integrated set of solutions in this, you know, expanding digital footprint that customers are faced with. >> So when we talk about education and I'm glad that you guys brought that up, that was a big topic, it was a pillar that Ken talked about, that Patrice talked about as well, it was one of the core pillars that was talked about at the World Economic Forum that was just a couple of months ago. So as we talk about education and educating your partners, I'd like to kind of flip that and ask how are your partners educating you on, these are the trends and concerns and the issues that we're seeing in the market today, to help influence the direction of Fortinet's technology? >> Yup, you know it's funny that you say that, I've been in partner meetings all day today, and it's great I get to spend, I don't think I've ever been this popular and definitely not in high school or college, but in spending time with partners and understanding their challenges it's good to see that our focus on the competency and preference and providing consumption modeling, fits to exactly the challenges that they're faced with, because VARS will tell you that the transition from being a reseller to an MSP can be very, very expensive. And so, with FortiSIEM for MSSP and the as of service offerings, we're reducing that. And so, there are , they're resonating to that. But the other thing is, for the mid-market customer, the Security Fabric alleviates the need for the Cyber skills gap, right? We can't hire fast enough, and so, by depending upon the broad integrated and automated posture that this Fortinet Security Fabric allows, it really allows partners and customers to overcome some of the challenges, just from a head count standpoint. And I think that the NSE program also does a very good job of filling that gap as well. >> So the partner used to mean, these are the, for that group of customers, who our direct sales organization can't make money on, we will give them to partners, or the very, very large, for a very, very large company that's owned by Accenture or owned by Dimension Data, or something like that, >> Yup >> We'll work with them and deliver it. And that kind of middle was kind of lost. But even today, that Loewen, that idea of segmenting purely on the basis of how big they are, is problematic because there's a lot of small companies happening because of this digital transformation they're going to very rapidly grow into some very, very big footprints. >> Absolutely >> So how is that line between what Fortinet does, what the partner does, what the customer does, to achieve these outcomes, starting to shift? >> We're going to be introducing an ecosystem based approach. It's called Partner to Partner Connect, and it is to actually do that very thing. For those partners that may be in the mid-market, that need those expertise, we're going to allow partners to create almost a marketplace of service offerings so they can fill their gaps and they can build meaningful practices, leveraging what Fortinet is doing, but also leveraging somewhat some of our other partners are doing. We're seeing this immediately done with our distribution partners, in North America, and we're going to be introducing the Partner to Partner Connect later this year, and accessible through our Partner Portal. >> And those competencies that are associated with the NSE and the education, then become part of those Partner to Partner brands >> John: Absolutely >> Which makes it easy for those partners to be more trustworthy of whatever accommodations they put together to serve customers. >> Yup, I'll give you an example. So, we're also going to be announcing tomorrow afternoon in our North America breakout session, a Cloud Channel Initiative, and so our goal with this Cloud Channel Initiative, is to allow partners to build meaningful security and networking businesses in the public Cloud. We're going to utilize blueprints for reference architectures, we're going to align with education and certification, and then we're going to guide them through enablement to go to market. That's one of the things also we released this week was the NSE7 for public and private Cloud. So again, as we introduce new technologies and we introduce new opportunities, we're also aligning that to education as well, so the partners can be self service, because the better job a partner does is developing that competency , then the more services rich they're going to be able to deliver to the end customer themselves. >> What are some of your expectations in terms of FY19, I know this is a 20% year on your growth that Fortinet as a company achieved last year, I imagine a good amount of that was driven and influenced by the channel, but as this momentum continues to grow, as we saw this morning, and we've heard throughout this show today, what are some of your expectations about growing the number of partners in the programs that you talked about, like by the end of this year? >> Yes, we recognize, you know, first of all we appreciate our partners so much, and we want to ensure that we are enabling their business we're absolute in active recruitment mode. You know, we're currently going through recruitment and reactivation campaigns with partners that we want or maybe have done business with us before. We see we're coming off of a quarter in which we set a record for the most deal registrations and so that's really the metric in which we look for partner impact. They bring us an opportunity, we give them additional margin and we protect them. So, Q1, fiscal Q1 for us, was our largest deal registration quarter we've ever had. And in 2018 we saw a 52% increase in closed opportunities through our deal registration program. So the impact of the North American Channel is absolutely being felt and we're really excited about the new partner program and what it's going to allow us to do as we expand more into the MSP market, more into the Cloud market, and then hopefully go enable that whole consultancy layer that's out there as well, to help customers on their journey. >> So in terms of your session tomorrow, 'Transforming Your Profitability with Fortinet's Tailor Made Programs,' you mentioned some of the new announcements, what are like the top three take aways that attendees from that session are going to walk away with? >> Well it's going to be, we want to drive partner initiated revenue, we want to do that through competency development, through Widespace account penetration, and through meaningful investments that allow our partners to scale their business. >> Lisa: Lot of momentum, John thank you so much for visiting with Peter and me on theCUBE this afternoon, we can't wait to hear what great news you have next year. >> I look forward to it, thank you both. >> Excellent, our pleasure. For Peter Burris, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from the Bill Graham Auditorium in San Francisco. It's the Cube. Covering Pure Storage Accelerate 2018. Brought to you by Pure Storage. >> Welcome back to Pure Storage Accelerate 2018. I'm Lisa Martin with the Cube. I'm with Dave Vellante. We are here in San Francisco at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium which is why we're sporting some concert t-shirts. >> Who. >> The Who and the Clong. >> Roger. Roger Delchi. >> Roger. We are here with the CIO of the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, Pure customer, Ben Nathan. Ben, welcome to the Cube. Thanks for having me. So, talk to us about the shool of medicine at UCLA. You are the CIO there, you've been there for about three years. Give us a little bit of the 10,000 foot view of what your organization looks like to support the school of medicine. >> Sure. We're about 170 people. We have changed a lot over the last three years. So, when I got to UCLA there was 25 separate IT organizations, all smaller groups, operating in each individual department. And, they had built their own sets of managed infrastructure, distributed throughout every closet, nook and cranny in the school. We've consolidated all that under one set of service lines, one organization, and that's including consolidating all the systems and applications as well. So, we've brought all those together and now we're additionally running IT for three more health sciences schools at UCLA, nursing, dentistry, and school of public health, Fielding School of Public Health. Like a lot of CIOs, you serve many masters. You got the administration, you got the students, right. You've got the broader constituency. The community, UCLA. Where do you start? What's the quote on quote customer experience that you're trying to achieve? That's a great way to put it. There's really sort of four pillars that we try to serve. The patient being first and foremost. So, for us, everything is built around a great patient experience. And, that means that when we're educating students it's so they can be great providers of patient care. When we're doing research, When we're doing that research in an effort to eradicate disease et cetera. And, when we're doing community outreach it's also around improving health and peoples lives, so, in IT, we try to stay very connected to those missions. I think it's a large part of what drives people to be a part of an organization that's healthcare or that's a provider. That mission is really, really important. So, yes. We're serving all four of those things at once. >> So, you had lots of silos, lots of data, that's all continuing to grow but, this is data that literally life and death decisions can be made on this. Talk to us about the volumes of data, all the different sources that are generating data. People, sensors, things and how did you make this decision to consolidate leveraging Pure Storage as that foundation? >> Yeah, there's and incredible amount of work going on at UCLA. Particularly in their research education and patient care spaces. We had every brand of server in storage that you've never heard of. Things bought at lowest, bitter methods but, the technical data that we had incurred as part of that was enormous. Right, it's unsustainable. It's unsupportable. It's insecure-able. When I got there and we started to think about how do we deal with all of this? We knew we had an opportunity to green field an infrastructure and consolidate everything onto it. That was the first, that was started us down the road that led us to Pure as one of our major storage vendors. I had worked with them before but, they won on their merits, right? We do these very rigorous RFP processes when we buy things. The thing that really, I think, got them the the victory is us is that the deduplication of data got us to something like an eight to one ratio of virtual to physical. So, we get a lot of virtual servers running on relatively small amount of storage. And, that it's encrypted you know, sort of the time, right? There's not like a switch you might flip or something a vendor says they'll do but it >> Always on. >> doesn't really do, it is always on. And, it's critical for us. We're really building a far more secure and manageable set of services and so all the vendors we work with meet that criteria. >> So, is as a CIO, I would imagine you don't want to wake up every day and think of storage. With all due respect to our friends at Pure. >> That's true. >> So, has bringing it in for infrastructure in, like Pure, that prides itself on simplicity, allowed you to do the things that you really want to do and need to do for your organization? >> Yeah. I'll give you a two part answer. I mean one is simply, I think, it's operationally a really great service. I think that it's well designed, and run, and managed. And, we get great use of out it. I think the thing that makes it so that I don't have to think about it is actually, the business model that they have. So, the fact that I know that it's not going to really obsolete on its own, as long as you're like in the support model, you're upgrading the system every few years, changes, you know the, model for me, 'cause I don't have to think about these new, massive capitalization efforts, it's more of a predictable operational costs and that helps me sleep well because I know what we look like over the next few years and I can explain that to my financial organization. >> Just a follow up on that, a large incumbent storage supplier or system vendor might say, "Well, we can make that transparent to you. We can use our financial services to hide that complexity or make a cloud-like rental experience or you know, play financial games to hide that. Why does that not suffice for you? >> Well, I think, first and foremost we sort of want to run our financials on our own and we're pretty anxious about having anyone else in the middle of all that. Number two is it seems to me different in terms of Pure having built that model from the ground up as part of their service offerings. So, I don't think we see that with too many other vendors and I think that obviously there's far less technical than what I had in the previous design but it can still add up if you're not careful about whatever, what server mechanism you have in place, et cetera. >> But, it eliminates the forklift upgrade, right. Even with those financial incentives or tricks, you still got to forklift it and it's a disruption to your operation. >> Yeah, and I'm sure that's true, yeah. >> So, when you guys were back a year and a half or so, maybe two years ago, looking at this consolidation, where were your thoughts in terms of beyond consolidation and looking at being able to harness the power of AI, for example, we heard a lot of AI today already and this need for legacy infrastructures are insufficient to support that. Was that also part of your plan, was not simply to consolidate and bring your (speaks very rapidly) environment unto Pure source but also to leverage a modern platform that can allow you to harness the power of AI? >> Yeah. That was sort of the later phase bonus period that we're starting to enter now. So, after we sort of consolidate and secure everything, now, we can actually do far more interesting things that would've been much more difficult before. And, in terms of Pure, when we had set out to do this we imagined doing a lot of our analytics and AI machine learning kind of cloud only and we tried that. We're doing a lot of really great things in the cloud but not all of it is makes sense in that environment. Either from a cost perspective or from a capabilities perspective. Particularly with what Pure has been announcing lately, I think there's a really good opportunity for us to build high performance computing clusters in our on premise environment that leverage Pure as a potential storage back end. And that's where our really interesting data goes. We can do the analytics or the AI machine learning on the data that's in our electronic medical record or in our genomics workflows or things like that can all flow through a service like that and there's some interesting discoveries that ought to come from it. >> There's a lot of talk at this event about artificial intelligence, machine intelligence, how do you see AI in health care, generally? And specifically, how you're going to apply it? Is it helping doctors with diagnosis? Is it maybe maintaining better compliance? Or, talk about that a little. >> I think there's two things that I can think of off the top of my head. The first is decision support. So this is helping physicians when they're working directly with patients there's only, there's so many systems, so many data sets, so many way to analyze, and yet getting it all in front of them in some kind of real time way so that they can use it effectively is tricky. So, AI, machine learning, have a chance to help us funnel that into something that's immediately useful in the moment. And then the other thing that we're seeing is that most of the research on genomics and the outcomes that have resulted in changes to clinical care are around individualized mutations in a single nucleotide so there's, those are I guess, quote, relatively easy for a researcher to pick out. There's a letter here that is normally a different letter. But, there are other scenarios where there's not a direct easy tie from a single mutation to an outcome. so, like in autism or diabetes, we're not sure what the genetic components are but we think that with AI machine learning, those things will start to identify patterns in genomic sequences that humans aren't finding with their typical approaches and so, we're really excited to see our genomic platforms built up to a point where they have sequences in them to do that sort of analysis and you need big compute, fast storage to do that kind of thing. >> How is it going to help the big compute, fast storage, this modern infrastructure, help whether its genomics or clinicians be able to sort through masses amounts of data to try to find those needles in the haystack 'cause I think the staff this morning that Charlie Jean and Carla mentioned was that half a percent of data in the world is analyzed. So, how would that under the hood infrastructure going to help facilitate your smart folks getting those needles in the haystack just to start really making big impacts? >> UCLA has an incredible faculty, like brilliant researchers, and sometimes what I've found since I've gotten there, the only ingredient that's missing is the platform where they can do some of this stuff. So, some of them are incredibly enterprising, they've built their own platforms for their own analysis. Others we work with they have a lot of data sets they don't have a place to put them where they can properly interrelate them and do, apply their algorithms at scale. So, we've run into people that are trying to do these massive analysis on a laptop or a little computer or whatever it just fails, right? Or it runs forever. So, giving them, providing a way to have the infrastructure that they can run these things is really the ingredient that we're trying to add and so, that's about storage and compute, et cetera. >> How do you see the role of the CIO evolving? We hear a lot of people on the Cube and these conferences talk about digital transformation and the digital CIO, how much of that is permeating your organization and what do you think it means to the CIO world going forward? >> I wish I knew the real answer to that question. I don't know, time will tell. But, I think that certainly we're trying to follow the trends that we see more broadly which is there's a job of keeping the lights on of operations. And you're not really, you shouldn't have a seat at any other table and so those things are quite excellent. >> Table stakes. >> Yeah. Right. Exactly, table stakes. Security, all that stuff. Once, you've got that, you know, my belief is you need to deeply understand the business and find your way into helping to solve problems for it and so, you know, our realm, a lot of that these days is how do we understand the student journey from prior to, from when they maybe want to apply all the way 'til when they go out and become a resident and then a physician. There's a ton of data that's gathered along that way. We got to ask a lot of questions we don't have easy answers to but, if we put the data together properly, we start to, right? On the research side, same sort of idea, right? Where the more we know about the particular clinical outcomes they're trying to achieve or even just basic science research that they're looking into, the better that we can better micro target a solution to them. Whether it's a on prem, private cloud, or public cloud, either one of those can be harnessed for really specific workloads and I think when we start to do that, we've enabled our faculty to do things that have been tougher for them to do before. Once, we understand the business in those ways I think we really start to have an impact at the strategic level, the organization. >> You've got this centralized services model that was a strategic initiative that you put in place. You've got the foundation there that's going to allow you to start opening up other opportunities. I'm curious, in the UCLA system, maybe the UC system, are there other organizations or schools that are looking at what you're doing as a model to maybe replicate across the system? >> I think there's I don't know about a model. I think there's certainly efforts among some to find, to centralize at least some services because of economies to scale or security or all the normal things. With the anticipated, and then anticipating that that could ultimately provide more value once the baseline stuff is out of the way. UC is vast and varied system so there's a lot of amazing things going on in different realms and we're I think, doing more than ever working together and trying to find common solutions to problems. So, we'll see whose model works out. >> Well, Ben. Thanks so much for stopping by the Cube and sharing the impact that your making at the UCLA School of Medicine, leveraging storage and all the different capabilities that that is generating. We thank you for your time. >> Thanks so much for having me. >> We want to thank you for watching the Cube. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante. We are live at Pure Accelerate 2018 in San Francisco. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Informatica World 2018. Brought to you by Informatica. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE, here at Informatica World 2018 in Las Vegas. CUBE's exclusive coverage. I'm John Furrier, here for the wrap-up of day two of Informatica World, wrapping up the show coverage. Peter Burris has been my co-host all week, chief analyst at Wikibon.org, SiliconANGLE and theCUBE. And Jim Kobielus, lead researcher on AI analytics, big data for Wikibon, SiliconANGLE and theCUBE as well. Guys, let's kind of analyze and dissect what we heard from the conversations. Peter and Jim, we heard from the customers, we heard from the executive management, top partners and top executives. So interesting, and Jim, you've been at the analyst one-on-ones, the keynotes. Good show, I thought it was well done, the messaging, again, continuing the brand. The 25th anniversary of Informatica. Which, that's okay for me, but it's really not 25 years old. It's really like five years old. When the private equity came in, they took the legacy and made it new. >> Well they're a continually renewed company. They're a very different company from what they were even ten years ago, and they've got a fairly aggressive roadmap in terms of evolving into the world of AI and so forth. So they continually renew, as every vendor that hopes to survive inflection points must. >> Jim, what was your takeaway from your sessions? I mean, you saw the keynote, you saw the messaging, you had a chance to sit down one-on-one and ask some tough questions. You heard the hallway conversations amongst the other analysts and customers. What's your personal takeaway? >> A personal takeaway is that Informatica understands that their future must be in the cloud and a subscription model. That means they need to get closer to their core established cloud partners, Microsoft Azure, AWS, Google. At this show, Microsoft, they had the most important new announcements at this show, were all about further integration of the new ICCS, which is the Informatica-- >> Intelligent cloud service. >> Integration and platform service offerings, into the Azure cloud. That was the most important new piece of news in terms of enabling their customers, they have many joint customers already, to bring all of their Informatica assets more completely into the Azure cloud. That was quite important. But there was of lot of showing from AWS here on the main stage and so forth. And we expect further deepening of their Informatica footprint on AWS from those customers. So a, Informatica's future and their customers' future is in public clouds, and I think Informatica knows that the prem-based deployments will decline over time. But this will be-- >> Still good now, so the migration-- >> Well it's a hybrid cloud store. They have Informatica, a strong hybrid cloud store in the same way that an IBM does, or that a Hortonworks does, because most of their customers will have hybridized, multi-cloud models for deployment of this technology for the long term, really, with an emphasis on more public deployments, and I think it's understood. >> Peter, what's your thoughts? You had some great observations and questions. I was listening to you highlighted some of the digital business imperatives that you've been observing and researching and reporting on with the team, but also these guys have been doing it themselves. Any takeaways from you on any change of landscape on digital business, the role of data, the role of the asset. What's your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I think if we look at the 25 year history, and Jim mentioned there've been a lot of inflection points. The thing that's distinguished Informatica for years is that it always was a company that sought to serve underserved data requirements. So it started out when relational database was the rage, started out doing OLAP and new types of analytics. And then when the data warehouse became what it was it became a data integration issue. And you can kind of see Informatica's always tried to be one step ahead of the needs of hardcore data people. And I think we're saying that here too. They have got really, really smart people that went private so that they could re-tool the company and they are introducing a portfolio that is very focused on the next needs, the next rounds of needs of data people. >> That's a lot of cloud too. >> They're a data pipeline power-- >> Well I would say they're a data pipeline pure player, I think you're doing a-- >> The closest of anybody out there. >> But I think the key thing is, right now, they're at the vanguard of talking about data as an asset, what it means to present data as an asset, tools that should provide for managing data as an asset. And they have the pipeline and all the other stuff, the catalog store that they have is very tied to that. The CLAIRE store that they have is very tied to that. Data is very, very complex. And often it takes an enormous amount of manual labor. >> I think they're checking the boxes on some of the things that I've observed over the years, going back to the early Adobe days streaming data requires some machine intelligence, obviously machine learning, AI, CLAIRE, check. Ingestion of data, managing, getting it all in an intelligent, not a data lake or data swamp, in a fabric that's going to be horizontally scalable-- >> Yeah, absolutely. >> With APIs-- >> Well horizontally scalable actually means something, it means expanding out through APIs and finding new ways of leveraging data. And I think we can make a prediction here based on four years of being here, that Informatica will probably be at the vanguard of the next round of data needs. So today, we're talking about cloud versus on-premise. I wouldn't be surprised if in a year to two years Informatica isn't talking more about how IoT data gets incorporated-- >> And blockchain. >> Yeah, IoT was not mentioned, nor was blockchain, and I think those are kind of significant deficiencies in terms of what we're hearing at this show from Informatica in terms of strategic-- >> Well hold on-- >> But I've think they've got a great team and I expect to see more of that in coming years. >> Well that's a double-edged sword, when the hype's not there, they have a lot of sizzle at stake. >> When I say deficiencies, I mean in terms of strategic discussions of where they're going. I would have liked to have heard more of Peter's discussion. >> I would too, let's get to that in a second. But I want to get your reaction on the whole enterprise catalog piece. Pretty much promoted by Jerry Held, founder of INGRES, legend in the industry, Bruce Chizen, really pumping that up. Their quote was, "This is probably "the most important product." Now, is that a board perspective bias, or is that really something that you guys believe? >> That's really organic. Metadata management is their core competency, and really their core asset inside of all their applications at Informatica, and that's what the big data catalog is all about. It's not just a data catalog, it's a metadata catalog for data discovery and so forth. Everything that is done inside of the Informatica portfolio requires a central metadata repository, and I think we at Wikibon, in our recent report on the big data market, focused on the big data catalog as being one of the key pieces of infrastructure going forward in multi-cloud. You know, there's not just Informatica, there's Alation, and there's Codero, Hortonworks and IBM and others that are going deep on their big data catalogs. >> So you see that's a flagship product for these companies. >> Well let's put it this way, AI has been around since the late 1940s. The algorithms for doing AI have been around, '40s, '50s. The algorithms have been around for years. But the point is, what's occurred recently is the introduction of technology that can actually run these algorithms, that can actually sustain the algorithms against very large volumes of data. So the technology's gotten to the point where you can actually do some of this stuff. The catalog concept has been around for as long as database managers have been around. The problem was you could only build a catalog for just that database manager. The promise of building enterprise-wide catalogs, that dream has been in place for years. One of the worst two days of my life was flying back from Japan, into New York, and sitting in an IBM information model meeting for analysts. It was absolutely-- >> Was that the 40s or 50s? (laughter) >> That was in the 80s. It was absolute hell. But the point is that Informatica is now-- >> You were the prodigy. >> Yeah, I was a prodigy. Informatica is now bringing together a combination of technologies, including CLAIRE, to make it possible to actually do catalog in a very active way. And that's trend setting. >> I think they're right too. I think that's clearly, they make a good product because I've got to say, you know, watching them for five years. This is our fourth year coming to Informatica World. Our first meeting with Anil, when he was chief product officer, was 2014 and so we've seen the progression. They're right on track, and I think they have an opportunity with IoT and blockchain, but the question I want to ask you guys is, this event of about 4,000 people, not a huge big data show, but it's really all about data. There's no distractions. The fact that they can't even get a lot of IoT airtime means that there's been a lot of core discussions. >> They're really focused. >> This is not like a Strata-- >> No. >> Where everyone's marketing some tool or platform. >> These guys are down and dirty with the products. >> They are really focused on their core opportunities, and like Peter was saying, they're really focused, they're the premier, I see the data pipeline solution or platform vendor. The data pipeline is the center of the AI revolution. And so in many ways, all of the forces, all of the trends have converged to the advantage of Informatica as being the core, go-to vendor for a complete data pipeline for all your requirements, including machine learning development. >> There's one more thing. We didn't hear blockchain, we didn't hear IoT, although I bet you there's a lot of conversation, one-on-ones between customers and Informatica about some of those things. But there's one other thing we didn't hear, which I think is very telling, and speaks to some of our trends. We didn't hear open source. Open source was not once mentioned on theCUBE, except maybe you mentioned it once. >> John: You're right. >> Now, if we think about where the big data market was forged, and where it was going to always remain, was it was going to be this big, huge, open-source play. And that has not happened. Informatica, by saying, "We're going to have "a great individual product, "and a great portfolio that works together," is demonstrating that the way to show how the new compute model is going to work is to take a coherent, integrated, focused approach on how to do it. >> It's interesting, I mean we could dissect this. Open source is a great observation, because is there really open source needed if you have a pipeline thing? I'd much rather have a discussion about open data, which I think as your deal points to, is getting into hybrid cloud as fast as possible in a console. To me, that's so much more powerful than open source. >> Jim: Open APIs. >> Open APIs where I can not get locked into Azure. >> I think open source is still important, but I'll bet you that the open source, if you start looking at what these guys are doing and others like them are doing, my guess is that we'll see open source vendors saying, "Oh, so that's how you're going to do catalog. "Okay great, so let's take an open source approach "to doing that." And you know, Informatica's going to have to stay in front of that. >> They might be using some open source. It might not be a top-line message. But let's go the next level, let's go critical analysis on Informatica. What does Informatica need to do, obviously they've got a tail wind, they've got great timing with GDPR, you couldn't ask for a better time to showcase engineering data, governance and application integration across clouds than now. So they're in a good spot. Where are they strong? What do they need to work on? >> Well okay, let's just focus on GDPR, because it is three days from now for that compliance date. GDPR, I mean, Informatica's had some good announcements at this show and prior to this show, in terms of tools for discovery of all your PII and so forth, so you can catalog it in the big data catalog. What needs to be built up by them and other vendors as well, is a more fully fleshed-out, GDPR compliance platform, or portfolio, or ecosystem. There's a lot of things that are needed, like a standardized consent portal so your customers can go in, look up their PII in your big data catalog and indicate their consent or their withdrawal of consent for you to use particular pieces of data. Hortonworks a few weeks ago at their data works in Berlin, they made an announcement related to such a portal. What I'm getting at is that more vendors, including this, every big data catalog vendor needs to have in their portfolio, and will, and I predict within the next two years, a consent portal as one of several important components to enable not just GDPR compliance, but really compliance with any such privacy-- >> A subject portal that offers consent but then is verified. >> Jim: For example, but it needs to be open source. >> Here's what I'll say, John. And we had a conversation about it with Amil, the present chief product officer. I think that if Informatica, similar to what we think, is on the right path, the world is moving to an acknowledgment that data has to be treated as an asset. That tooling is required so that you can do so. And that you have to re-institutionalize work, re-organize work, and re-think, culturally, what it means to use data as an asset. >> With penalties down the road, obviously on the horizon. >> Well there are penalties, and you know, proximate like GDPRs, but also you're out of business if you don't do these kinds of penalties. But one of the things that's going to determine what's going to gate their growth is how many people will actually end up utilizing these technologies? And so if I were to have one thing that I think they absolutely have to do, we're coming out of a world that's focused on we use process, and process models and process-oriented tools to build applications. We're moving into a world where we use data, data methods, data models to build applications. This notion of a data-first world as opposed to a process-first world, Informatica has to take a lead on what it means to be data-first, tooling for data-first, building applications that are data-first, and very importantly, that's how you're going to grow your user base. >> Sajit was talking about data value, data value chains or whatever it's called. >> Supply chains. >> Data supply chains. I think there's going to be a series of data supply chains that are going to be well-formed, well-defined, and ones that are going to be dynamic. Seeing it happening now. >> And actually that's an interesting discussion, data value chains, data supply chains, but really, data monetization chains. The whole GDPR phenomenon is that your customer's PI is their property, and that you need their consent to use it, and to the extent that they give you consent. On some level, the customer's expecting a return of value to them. You know, maybe monetization. Maybe they make money, but more enterprises have to start thinking of data as a product. And then they need to license the IP from whoever owns it. >> Peter: This is a huge issue. >> And vendors like Informatica need to understand that phenomenon and bake it, as it were, into their solution portfolio. >> Either they're going to be on the right side of history on that, or the wrong side, because you're right and you just highlighted Peter's point, which is that data direction, not the process, to your point. >> Data first. >> If I own the data, it's got to be very dynamic. Okay, my final comment would be, and I mentioned this last night when we were talking, is that I think that things are clicking for them. I think they've got tail winds, I think they're smart enough on the product side. The trend is their friend. They've got the clould deals in place. They're in a nice layer in the stack where they can be that Switzerland. You've got storage vendors underneath, there's a nice data layer, so in the position, with coming over the top cloud-native Kubernetes and containers-- >> This is going to get messy fast. >> John: I didn't hear Kubernetes at all this show. >> Hold on, let me finish. This is going to be a robust Switzerland model where I don't think they can handle the onboarding of partners. I think they have a lot of partners now from their standpoint, but I think they might have an AWS factor where they're going to have to start thinking really hard about how to be efficient about onboarding partners. To your point about adoption, this is going to be a huge issue that could make or break them. They could scale the partnership model through the APIs, they could have a robust ecosystem. That could show us 15,000-- >> If they could be a magnet brand inside Azure, or a magnet brand inside AWS for how you think about building new classes of value, applications and others, with a data-first approach, then a lot of interesting things could happen. >> Yeah, they could be a magnet brand to avoid getting disintermediated by their public cloud partners because Microsoft's got a portfolio they could place with theirs. AWS has built one. >> Everybody wants this. >> Yeah, everybody wants them. >> Guys, great job. Peter, great to host with you. Jim, great to have you on, making an appearance in between your meetings, one-on-ones and the analyst stuff. >> I'm a busy man. >> That's theCUBE here, wrapping up day two of coverage here at Informatica World 2018. The trend is their friend. Data's at the center of the value proposition, and more strategic ever, data engineering, governance, application. This is all happening right now. Regulations on the horizon. A cultural shift happening. And we're out here in the open doing it, sharing the data with you. Thanks for watching Informatica World 2018. (energetic music)

(upbeat electronic music) >> Narrator: Live, from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering Informatica World 2018, brought to you by Informatica. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. This is the Cube's exclusive coverage, here in Las Vegas, at the Venetian Hotel. I'm John Furrier, co-host of the Cube, with Peter Burris co-hosting with me the next two days, wall-to-wall coverage. Our next guest is Richard Cramer, who's the Chief Healthcare Strategist for Informatica World, back from last year, had a great chat. We talked about data swamps and data lakes. This year it's about governance and the enterprise. Great to see you again, thanks for coming back. >> Thanks for having me back. >> Actually, healthcare, we can go on and on. Peter and I can rant about that, but this is really where the healthcare has had data challenges always. They've had regulations. Governance, some will say, maybe, maybe not. What's different this year, for you and your conversations? We talked about data swamps last year, and data lakes. Where is it this year? What's the conversation with customers in healthcare? What's happening? >> Well I think it really is a reflection of the maturity of people using data, naturally coming from a data swamp or a data lake. How do we keep it from becoming a swamp? You govern it. And so as people start to use data, which we're really coming into our own in healthcare, governance becomes the top topic. When I start to share data, and people ask me where'd this come from, what did it mean? And I'm not able to answer that question, that's a governance problem. And so we're really starting to see enterprise data governance and compliance come to the forefront of almost every one of my conversations. >> And where is the catalyst coming from? Is it some of the regulation? Is it some of the awareness? Is it in a moment where the straw breaks the camel's back, so to speak? Where is it coming from, the governance question? >> It really is coming from an executive level, where as we start to use data, we have more executive dashboards, there's a desire to actually make data-driven decisions, both for business purposes and clinical care, if you can't explain where the data came from and why, what it means when people ask you questions, they don't trust it. And so I think it really is, as we start to really use data for the first time, it needs to be reliable and trustworthy, and that's a governance problem. It's not a tool problem, it's not an architecture problem, it's a people or process problem, and that's governance. >> Well one of the things that's true about healthcare, is healthcare has been driving the vanguard of ethics in society, for probably a few centuries now. And it's starting to happen in technology as well. I think the whole concept of GDPR is made even that much clearer, as a consequence of people actually becoming a little bit more concerned about their health information getting into the hands of people they don't want to get access to that information. How is this relationship between healthcare, ethics, and now governance, starting to affect the conversations that you're having in healthcare and beyond? >> Well I think healthcare has had HIPAA, which is all about privacy and protection of information. We've had that for a long number of years, but that was really a data element, not an appropriate use, but hey, this data, you can't share without permission. Now we're talking-- >> And it wasn't about the subject, it was about the data that you controlled. >> That's right. And now we're really talking about, and genomic data is a big part of this, is the ethical use of data. Can I use this data appropriately? If I'm doing it for your benefit, and to help you care for yourself, yeah, I think we probably can. But it's a governance challenge, right? What data do I have? What am I allowed to use it for, for what purpose? And who has consented to that? We have a similar issue that if you're a hospital that also has a health plan, and you can share data about a patient from that health plan with that hospital. But how about a competing hospital across town? Well I can't share that data, potentially, because of regulatory reasons. So really, the need to know what data you have, what policies apply to that data, and be able to consistently and authoritatively govern that data, I think is really a good example of what's driving enterprise data governance and compliance. >> So on the compliance side, when you think about outside the United States, obviously GDPR Friday kicks in. That's creating a lot of awareness. >> Yes. >> What's the impact of that, if any, to healthcare? Is it no big deal, we've been there, we can handle this? They have the data issues. What are you hearing on that front? >> So really, two-fold. First, GDPR is probably the best representation of really good stringent, proper, consumer privacy data controls that exist. So even if you're not compelled to abide by GDPR, it's a great roadmap and it's a great model to follow, 'cause it's just good data discipline. We also have the good fortune at Informatica, that some of the leading healthcare organizations in the country, are our customers, and they happen to have footprints in Europe. And so they do in fact have a GDPR challenge. Do I have a patient from the EU that's coming to my U.S.-based facility? Do I have a U.S.-based patient that's in an EU facility? Do I have an EU licensed provider? The complexity of the GDPR challenge for some of our U.S.-based healthcare customers is pretty involved, and they're acutely aware of it. So I don't think there's been anything like GDPR in terms of data protection, that's existed in healthcare. >> Yeah, that's going to change the game. I guess, my gut feeling, again, you're the expert on this, but my feeling is that it will slow things down. It's mind-boggling that, I don't know, I'm a European patient going to a U.S. hospital, now something has to happen that didn't have to happen before. Or, is that, am I getting it right? >> I think that it holds the potential to get it to slow things down, if you treat it as a one-off. If you treat it as good data architecture, and you implement a system that that's just an artifact of how you manage data, it doesn't slow anything down, I think it makes things quicker. >> John: So the mandate is go faster. >> Because it's just the priorities. >> That's right. >> Well it sets a priority, and it forces you to have a good data architecture that operates like a well-oiled machine. >> But let me explain what I mean by that, 'cause it's very consistent with what you're saying. One of the biggest challenges about data is a lot of executives don't understand it, don't know what to do with it, can't treat it as an asset. GDPR, amongst other things, is forcing a consensus around what data can be to the business, what it should not be to the business, and that's helping to set priorities so that folks, you may be right, it may be a one-off basis. People may complain about it, but if it's used as an architectural direction, it may actually accelerate because it sets a consensus about what the priorities should be. >> Yes, and where you started is exactly why. It is a universally-understood business imperative that every executive knows. And the fact that underlying it is great data architecture, well that's just a bonus, 'cause it sets the priority correctly. >> But here's my challenge on that, because to create data architecture is aspirational for many, but not feasible in a short-term. So how do they get there? And then they want to have, hey, let's have some great data architecture. But what the Hell does that even mean? Some customers might be, I know hospitals might be more advanced, but there might, well maybe not, (laughing) but again, again, so take us through that. Some people might aspire for great data architecture, but it might take time to get there. >> So great data architecture, though, this is part of the generational market shift in data. And in the past, we had data silos, and data silos are bad, we must break them down and we must centralize and control data, as a path to value. That took a heck of a long time, and actually could not really be achieved. What's changed now is we accept silos are going to exist, self-service for data consumption exists, the problem is not now how do I centralize and control data within an inch of its life, to get value, the challenge now is how do I manage enterprise data as an asset, accepting that that's the landscape? A data catalog changes everything. >> Talk about the impact of that, 'cause this is super-important. It's not centralizing the data, it's just having a catalog with visibility into the meta-data, of all that data. >> Exactly right. So before, I didn't know where all of my data was, and data security being, and I, if I don't know I have it, how the heck can I secure it? Well with a catalog, for the first time, it's straightforward, simple, and easy, to know what data I have. You actually have a chance of securing it. So the answer, that's the path to getting real value with great data architecture, without taking decades to try and centralize and control. >> It's time for dancing. Richard, we got the music coming on. Last year it was data lakes, data swamps. That's awareness. Now it's enterprise governance, the catalog looking good from you guys. Congratulations. Good to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you very much. >> Alright, day one. Wrapping down, kicking off the Solutions Exhibit Hall here for Informatica World 2018. I'm John Furrier and Peter Burris. Stay tuned for more coverage, here from Las Vegas, it's the Cube. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Chicago, llinois. It's the CUBE covering VeeamON 2018. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Chicago everybody. VeeamON 2018, this is Dave Vellante cohost Stu Miniman. It's day two, they're breaking down the exhibit hall but the CUBE keeps going. Benno Kuijper is here, he's a senior strategic product manager at Equinix. Welcome to the CUBE. >> Thank you, good to be here. >> So Equinix is cracking the data center is booming. The data center business is booming. You guys are at the heart of it, you're working with all the cloud providers. Obviously you're working with Veeam. Talk about your role in what your relationship is with Veeam. >> Alright I represent the manage service department in the Netherlands so what we are doing on the beautiful platform we have with Equinix is provide manage services in the hybrid category. What we provide our customers is for example data management platform. So we provide the ease of mind with data management and business continuity on backup and disaster recovery. So the enterprise is our customers. >> So you're both a Veeam customer and partner right? >> Yeah we are platinum partner of Veeam yeah. So we provide the backup service to our customers. >> Okay so you purchase their products, install them. You got a relationship where you guys share the revenue somehow, someway. >> Yeah right, in the Netherlands we service the enterprise market and also big governmental companies and we use Veeam for the disaster recovery services. >> What are the big trends you see in data protection these days? >> Of course GDPR is very close. We see that especially in the Netherlands for a lot of companies the data has to be stored in the Netherlands. But ambition to go to the public cloud and use the HyperScalers as a still in the same trend. So what we try to do is to keep the data safe in the Netherlands but make it possible for our customers to use the HyperScalers for compute. It's important strategy we see. >> Yeah one of the things that's been interesting watching here is Veeam's they call the hybrid, the multi cloud strategy. Give us some examples of what your customers you said compliant is a reason they keep it. You know especially in say the Netherlands and their services. You have any examples you can give of things like that? >> Yeah we service few big customers that are obliged to be in the Netherlands with their data and all the service they provide to their customers for the dutch citizens. We have our own cloud platform for that so they're not using public clouds. But the availability they need is very high and that's what we provide. >> So what's driving that, we talked about digital transformation. >> Yes. >> Is that the driver, what is that? >> I think the digital transformation is just is not just about infrastructure it's how companies are and how they want to be. What we see is that they first want to have the data secured and next to that they want to experiment with HyperScaler and the real cloud native environments and providing both of those worlds in one package is what we see as a big trend. >> When I think about businesses like yours. Simplicity, scalability and cost effectiveness you know come to mind or those kind of the top three and if so you know from what you need from a solution like Veeam. >> Yes, well they currently provide our customers is more the disaster recovery part of the suite. So when there's something wrong we are there to help the customer to get back on track as soon as possible and here in the VeeamON2018 to explore the whole suite because what we see is that like services as office backup. The customers are getting more mature about using cloud and SaaS solutions. But still want to have the secure environment. >> Are you, is your expertise specific to Veeam or is it more general? >> More general. >> Okay so you're using other products as well? >> Yes. >> How do you decide what to use where? >> With Equinix we have a policy to select the leaders in the market and also based on functionality and services we want to provide we package to our customers and that's why Veeam was one of our selected partners. >> Okay so, what do they do better than others? What's their sweet spot? >> We chose Veeam a couple of years ago based on the functionality mainly. There were more technical colleagues that gave the list of arguments to choose for Veeam so. >> Okay maybe when we look at your space as a laser something important to your customers. Has that been changing your environment and how does solution with Veeam help you meet that for customers? >> Think that the way we approached it is more like you first discuss with the customer what kind of availability they need and the performance they need and then you design the architecture and that is also immediately the overlay. Instead of making a nice platform and then start discussion talking about overlays. So we try to have the correct infrastructure with the architecture and solutions within to meet customer's demands and that's another way to approach overlays. >> So flexibility and granularity is part of that. So I mean one of the problems backup we've been talking about all day and yesterday is many data protection approaches are one size fits all. You say okay here's our, we're going to back it up you know once a day incremental and you know once a week. Whatever it is that's it. This is your RPO, this is your RTO take it or leave it. >> Yes. >> Are you able to these days provide more granularity for customers? >> There's always a field of tension between standardized products and customer specific solutions. We try always to use the standard because then we are better in guaranteeing the service. But as the legacy of Equinix manage service in the Netherlands. We tend to do a lot more for our customers. >> Whatever the customer wants. >> That's what our differentiator is at this moment. >> Yeah okay that creates challenges just in terms of managing all these different templates and SLAs. Can't you I mean I'm sure you do this, you have categories and sort of banding if you will. Is that how you're dealing with this problem? You know gold, you know silver, bronze kind of thing or no it's gold one, gold two, gold three, gold four, or five. >> I see that we go from gold to platinum and there's also gold. But yes the service levels are high and that's why we are so successful we can do that. >> Right how about VeeamON2018 what have you seen. Anything that's really particularly exciting? You said you wanted to come here to better understand the portfolio presumably so you could exploit it. What have you learned, what's exciting you? >> Yeah at the time of this conference was perfect because as you know Equinix is at this time in the middle of the internet. So all the public clouds and all the tier one players are connecting on our platform. We call it the Equinix cloud exchange fabric and right on that fabric the best place for data management platform is there. So we are trying to enlarge this street from data to archiving. So storage to archiving on that spot. So we do that in the Netherlands we are building a portfolio around that data platform to provide the customers a safe place for all of the data and it can be redundant within the Netherlands in 12 IBXs and we are also strongly connected to those public cloud providers. So they can put the workload in cloud and the data on Equinix. >> Go ahead. >> No that was it. >> Who's your favorite public cloud provider, you don't have to answer that it's okay. >> The thing is they are both very good but having control on where your data and your applications are is a bit less. So that's the market we are jumping in now. >> Excellent Benno thanks very much for coming on the CUBE it was really a pleasure having you. >> Likewise. >> Keep it right there buddy the CUBE at VeeamON2018 we're winding down day two. Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman we'll be right back.

>> Narrator: Live from Chicago, Illinois, it's theCUBE, covering VeeamOn 2018. Brought to you my Veeam. >> Welcome back to Chicago everybody. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, and we are covering VeeamOn 2018, #VeaamOn. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with my cohost Stuart Miniman, Duncan Epping is here, Chief Technologist, Storage and Availability at VMWare and the world's number one blogger in virtualization, Yellow Bricks, yellow-bricks.com. Duncan, thanks very much coming to theCUBE. Good to see you. >> No problem, my pleasure, it's been a while. I actually hoped to be on the show probably six, seven, eight years ago, I don't know how long it is, but I've watched many episodes. So it's great to be part of it. >> Well great, Duncan one of the biggest problems is you're so busy, every year at VM World you were totally booked up, so no thanks so much we're so glad we could do this. >> So Stu and I remember the peer insight we did many many years ago back when we had Boonyon on recently, and he was talking about when VMWare sort of created virtualization, it pushed the bottle neck around. It created a lot of stress on the storage systems. And WMWare for years dealt with that through API integration and the like and very well sort of covered. But I wonder if you could take us through your perspectives of the journey of storage at VMWare and generally, or specifically, and virtualization generally. >> Yeah, it's a good question. I think everyone that has been part of the community has faced all of the different challenges from a storage perspective. I mean, Stu, you now what kind of problem EMC had when VMWare first started doing virtualization. And I think the key reasons for these were fairly straightforward. When we started virtualization and we started leveraging shared storage systems, those shared storage systems were never designed with virtualization in the back of their minds. They were designed for physical workloads, maybe one or two machines connected to it, you know in larger volume it may be 10 or 15, but not 10 or 15 physical hosts with hundred of virtual machines. So we started noticing is that from a performance perspective systems were lagging, we were doing all sorts of things to the storage systems that they weren't expecting, virtual machine snapshots. They were seeing IO patterns that they had never seen before. Instead of sequential IO we had a lot of random IOs so we had to start doing different things from a storage perspective so as you said, we started with APIs, we had the vSPhere APIs for IO filtering, we have the Divi APIs, the array integration, so that we can offload some of the functionality, but of course on top of that what we started doing within VMWare is we started exploring what we could do smarter from a storage point from our stance. So not just looking at how we can help the ecosystem, but also what we can do from our perspective, so there were two main efforts over the past couple of years. The first one is virtual volumes. It has taken a while before the adoption ramped up. I think part of that is mainly because a lot of our customer base was still on vSphere 5.5. Now that we're starting to see broader adoption of vSphere 6.0 and actually 6.5 and 6.7, we're starting to see the adoption of stuff like virtual volumes go up as well. That is also due to the fact that our partners like Pure Storage, Nimble, HP with 3PAR has been pushing or have been pushing VVols tremendously. So they've done a great job, and we're starting to see a lot of customers adopting VVols, and that way we're getting around some of the limitations that we have from a traditional storage perspective. >> Explain that, what are customers telling you about the benefits that they're getting out of VVols and VVol and VVol adoption? >> Well, there's two main things. It kind of depends on what kind of problems you're facing, but a lot of customers come to us with management issues and scalability issues. From a scalability perspective we have larger customers that literally have thousands of volumes. If you look at an E6 cluster today you're limited in terms of the numbers of volumes you can connect to a cluster. So that's one thing. As soon as they start moving to VVols now they're not managing those individual volumes anymore but they're managing the storage system as a whole, and they start creating policies, and that's where the management aspect comes into play. So it becomes a lot easier to manage, because instead of having thousands of volumes to select from, they don't normally have to look at a spreadsheet, for instance, to figure out where to place a virtual machine, now they simply make a policy and the policy engine will figure out where to place that virtual machine. >> Dave: It sounds like cloud. >> It actually is, you know, the cloud version of, cloudified version of storage I would say. But it brings a lot of benefits. And the funny thing is that we've been talking about policies and policy engines for a long time, even in the cloud, but try to come up with one cloud that actually has a decent policy engine. Hardly anyone has that today. From a storage perspective I think storage policy based management framework that VMWare has is quite unique. Well now we're starting to see that popping up in other areas, and that's the strange thing about it. >> Always back to the software mainframe Stu. >> Yeah, and Duncan one of the things we've really seen, a transition for, it took us about a decade to try and fix storage in a virtualized environment, and today most things are built either understanding virtualization, or at least that's part of the puzzle, and then of course VVols led us into was the ability for vSANs. Help us kind of transition that threshold as to how that's just kind of a given underneath for vSAN and other solutions like it. >> Yeah, if you look at vSAN it has been around for a while. The beta was in 2013, as you guys know. We have a large adoption, at least we saw a large increase over the last couple of years, I would say the last two years. You guys have spoken with Yangbing before, so you know about the business side of vSAN, I'm not going to cover that, but if you look at it from a technology perspective we stared developing this 2008, 2009, that's when we started thinking about what we could do different from a storage perspective. There were already some companies doing something in the hyperverge space and we figured we could do something significantly different than they were doing. They had a storage solution that sat on top of the hypervisor, we own the hypervisor so we can create something that sits within the hypervisor, and that's when we started looking at including these different technologies, so we started looking in how can we introduce things like deduplication and compression? What can we do with for ROBO solutions? Can we do something like stretch clustering in an easy way? There are a lot of stretch cluster solutions out there, but if you look at a stretch clustering solution today it typically takes weeks to implement that. If you look at something like vSAN, it was our aim to actually to be able to deploy something like that from a storage perspective within hours instead of weeks, right? And we've been able to achieve that, and it has been a huge undertaking, but I think it's fair to say that it has been rather successful. >> All right, Duncan, help connect the dots to where we are here at VeeamOn. It's funny, I think Veeam started out heavily in virtualization, still heavily involved in virtualization, they've got a v in the beginning of their name. When I hear the keynote this morning, a lot of hyper, reminded me of before we had, before hyperconverge fully took over, VMWare tried to call it a hypervisor converge system around VMWare, so talk to us a little bit about data protection, the Veeam relationship and how that fits into things like vSAN and vSphere? >> Yeah I think, I talk to a lot of customers as a Chief Technologist, it's part of my role to talk to customers and have discussions about what's on top of their mind. Data protection is always one of those things that comes up. I would say it's always in the top three. Whenever you talk to a CIO, a CTO, protection of the data, availability of data, resiliency, reliability, it's fairly important. Veeam of course, for us, is a great partner. Primarily because of the simplicity of the features and the products that they offer. Whenever I talk to a customer and they explain how difficult it is to manage their backup and recovery solutions I always point them to a partner like Veeam simply because it's going to make their life a lot easier if you ask me. And I can see that Veeam is slowly transitioning. As you mentioned, the v is in front of the name. The v is in front of our name as well, but we know that it's not, the whole world isn't just VMWare and the whole world isn't just virtual. There's a lot of other different solutions out there, and actually Veeam's looking at other revenue streams as well. I would argue, though, if you're looking at something like the edge space which I think that more or less exploring at looking at things like IoT, there's going to be some form of virtualization within that, whether that's VMWare based or another solution of course is going to be the question. That is something that we'll need to figure out in the upcoming years, but I think there's a big opportunity out there. If you ask me, the keynote was really interesting. I kind of missed the end of details. I'm hoping that the closing keynote is going to give some more details on what they will be doing in the IoT space, how they see their solution evolving from that point of view because it's a market that's still being developed, but that's definitely going to be interesting. >> So Duncan it's interesting to hear you say that when you talk to customers data protection is in the top three, even amongst CIOs. It used to not be that way. Data protection was always a bolt on, it was an afterthought, it was kind of one size fits all. What's changed? >> Well I think the importance of the data has changed. If you look over the last 10 years whenever you talk to any company out there that has lost any significant amount of data they understand what the value was of the data that they were hosting. I think the big difference over the past 10 years is in the past we had applications like email, maybe some file services and that's it. But now everything revolves around applications, and that's also the shift that I'm seeing in the industry. Also from an IT perspective, right? In the past, over the past decade I think everyone has been focused on the infrastructure layer. If you look at something like VBlock, very much infrastructure focused. If you look at something like hyperconverged solutions, very much infrastructure focused. But now whenever we talk to customers, customers are more and more interested in what we can do for the application layer. What kind of benefits do we have for Exchange, for Oracle, for SAP, you name it? I think that's also a big change that's happening in the industry right now. One of the things from a technical perspective, and there may be others, but when VMWare really became prominent it was wonderful but we were reducing the number of physical resources, and the one workload that took a lot of physical resources was backup, and then sort of Veeam swept in and took advantage of that sea change. What's the technical constraint now when you think about things like multi cloud and SaaS and IoT, data's much more distributed, it's out of the control necessarily of a single platform. So from a technicals perspective, what's the big challenge and sort of the gate to architectures today? >> Well as you said, the distribution of data is the big challenge as it stands right now from a technical perspective. I think the biggest challenge that most of the players in this space, and not just Veeam, some other players as well, will have is trying to figure out how to control and manage their data. Other platforms are facing similar challenges. And no one really has solved this problem yet. We're starting to see some players in this space that have solutions that sit out in Azure, that sit out in Google Cloud, but it's a very challenging solution, and I think if you ask me, and this is something that I've said internally as well, the company that is capable of managing and owning the data is the company that's probably going to be most successful in the cloud war that's now happening. I think that's the most critical aspect. Workloads can move around, but data is very difficult to move around and own as well. >> Duncan one of the discontinuities we see in the marketplace that you mentioned earlier, wondering if you can talk to, in the enterprise in the data center, how do we get them to get to that next version? Comfortable with it, it's stable, it works. I look at the cloud, I'm running Microsoft Azure or AWS I'm running the version that they want. How do we help close that gap? Because from a security standpoint, from a features standpoint, we need to move there, but you know it seems to be just one of the greatest disconnects we see between kind of my data center and somebody else's cloud. >> That is a great question. I think we had a lot of challenges in the past. I think it's fair to say with vSphere 5.0 it was a great release, 5.5 among great releases. But the challenges that we have from an upgrade perspective was typically V centered and all of the components connected to it. It's not just the vSphere platform but if you look at the vSphere platform, the challenges that we had were all of the components integrating with it, whether that's something like vROps, VRA's, or VREalize Automation, but it could also be something like Evermar or maybe Veeam. So there were so many different components we had to take into account. So what we started doing within VMWare was simplifying the architecture from a vSPhere perspective. If you look at vSAN for instance, it used to be a solution where we had multiple functions spread out across different virtual machines. I'm now trying to bring that back into a single virtual machine again. Actually dumbing it down, making it easier to upgrade. So that is something that is actively happening within VMWare, and it is something that we started with 6.0, and that's also the reason why we see the adoption from 6.0 to 6.5 and 6.5 to 6.7, is at a must faster pace than 5, in the 5 code stream, so 5 to 5.1, for instance, took a lot longer for a lot of customers or 5.1 to 6.0, took extremely long for a lot of customers. It's the key reason is complexity from our infrastructure stand. While we're changing that, we're evolving that in the upcoming years. >> Duncan it's the last question here, but as the technologist, things that you're looking at that are exciting to you, that you know, get your juices flowing? >> Yeah, that's an interesting one because it's something that I've been thinking about recently. I've been doing vSphere for the last, well wasn't even called vSphere back then, but I've been doing this for the last 12 years, virtualization. Thirteen years maybe something like that. At least as a consultant and then as a technologist and technical marketing, but recently I'm starting to look more and more at the edge space. For computing, IoT, I think that's a really interesting space, especially because there isn't really significant market. Well, there is a significant market out there, but there isn't really one player out there that really stands out. No one has really figured out what customers would like to do with it and how our customers are going to use it. So the edge computing space and IoT's a really interesting thing and especially because of the distributed aspect is one of the things that I've been always been passionate about, vSphere clusters, which is a distributed mechanism. So distributed computing is definitely something that has my interest. >> All right if you care about virtualization, VMWare, follow the yellow brick road, yellow-bricks.com. Duncan, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me guys. >> You're welcome. All right, keep it right there buddy. We'll be back with our next guest. You're watching theCUBE live from Chicago, VeeamOn 2018. We'll be right back. (techno music)