>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Informatica World 2018. Brought to you by Informatica. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE, here at Informatica World 2018 in Las Vegas. CUBE's exclusive coverage. I'm John Furrier, here for the wrap-up of day two of Informatica World, wrapping up the show coverage. Peter Burris has been my co-host all week, chief analyst at Wikibon.org, SiliconANGLE and theCUBE. And Jim Kobielus, lead researcher on AI analytics, big data for Wikibon, SiliconANGLE and theCUBE as well. Guys, let's kind of analyze and dissect what we heard from the conversations. Peter and Jim, we heard from the customers, we heard from the executive management, top partners and top executives. So interesting, and Jim, you've been at the analyst one-on-ones, the keynotes. Good show, I thought it was well done, the messaging, again, continuing the brand. The 25th anniversary of Informatica. Which, that's okay for me, but it's really not 25 years old. It's really like five years old. When the private equity came in, they took the legacy and made it new. >> Well they're a continually renewed company. They're a very different company from what they were even ten years ago, and they've got a fairly aggressive roadmap in terms of evolving into the world of AI and so forth. So they continually renew, as every vendor that hopes to survive inflection points must. >> Jim, what was your takeaway from your sessions? I mean, you saw the keynote, you saw the messaging, you had a chance to sit down one-on-one and ask some tough questions. You heard the hallway conversations amongst the other analysts and customers. What's your personal takeaway? >> A personal takeaway is that Informatica understands that their future must be in the cloud and a subscription model. That means they need to get closer to their core established cloud partners, Microsoft Azure, AWS, Google. At this show, Microsoft, they had the most important new announcements at this show, were all about further integration of the new ICCS, which is the Informatica-- >> Intelligent cloud service. >> Integration and platform service offerings, into the Azure cloud. That was the most important new piece of news in terms of enabling their customers, they have many joint customers already, to bring all of their Informatica assets more completely into the Azure cloud. That was quite important. But there was of lot of showing from AWS here on the main stage and so forth. And we expect further deepening of their Informatica footprint on AWS from those customers. So a, Informatica's future and their customers' future is in public clouds, and I think Informatica knows that the prem-based deployments will decline over time. But this will be-- >> Still good now, so the migration-- >> Well it's a hybrid cloud store. They have Informatica, a strong hybrid cloud store in the same way that an IBM does, or that a Hortonworks does, because most of their customers will have hybridized, multi-cloud models for deployment of this technology for the long term, really, with an emphasis on more public deployments, and I think it's understood. >> Peter, what's your thoughts? You had some great observations and questions. I was listening to you highlighted some of the digital business imperatives that you've been observing and researching and reporting on with the team, but also these guys have been doing it themselves. Any takeaways from you on any change of landscape on digital business, the role of data, the role of the asset. What's your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I think if we look at the 25 year history, and Jim mentioned there've been a lot of inflection points. The thing that's distinguished Informatica for years is that it always was a company that sought to serve underserved data requirements. So it started out when relational database was the rage, started out doing OLAP and new types of analytics. And then when the data warehouse became what it was it became a data integration issue. And you can kind of see Informatica's always tried to be one step ahead of the needs of hardcore data people. And I think we're saying that here too. They have got really, really smart people that went private so that they could re-tool the company and they are introducing a portfolio that is very focused on the next needs, the next rounds of needs of data people. >> That's a lot of cloud too. >> They're a data pipeline power-- >> Well I would say they're a data pipeline pure player, I think you're doing a-- >> The closest of anybody out there. >> But I think the key thing is, right now, they're at the vanguard of talking about data as an asset, what it means to present data as an asset, tools that should provide for managing data as an asset. And they have the pipeline and all the other stuff, the catalog store that they have is very tied to that. The CLAIRE store that they have is very tied to that. Data is very, very complex. And often it takes an enormous amount of manual labor. >> I think they're checking the boxes on some of the things that I've observed over the years, going back to the early Adobe days streaming data requires some machine intelligence, obviously machine learning, AI, CLAIRE, check. Ingestion of data, managing, getting it all in an intelligent, not a data lake or data swamp, in a fabric that's going to be horizontally scalable-- >> Yeah, absolutely. >> With APIs-- >> Well horizontally scalable actually means something, it means expanding out through APIs and finding new ways of leveraging data. And I think we can make a prediction here based on four years of being here, that Informatica will probably be at the vanguard of the next round of data needs. So today, we're talking about cloud versus on-premise. I wouldn't be surprised if in a year to two years Informatica isn't talking more about how IoT data gets incorporated-- >> And blockchain. >> Yeah, IoT was not mentioned, nor was blockchain, and I think those are kind of significant deficiencies in terms of what we're hearing at this show from Informatica in terms of strategic-- >> Well hold on-- >> But I've think they've got a great team and I expect to see more of that in coming years. >> Well that's a double-edged sword, when the hype's not there, they have a lot of sizzle at stake. >> When I say deficiencies, I mean in terms of strategic discussions of where they're going. I would have liked to have heard more of Peter's discussion. >> I would too, let's get to that in a second. But I want to get your reaction on the whole enterprise catalog piece. Pretty much promoted by Jerry Held, founder of INGRES, legend in the industry, Bruce Chizen, really pumping that up. Their quote was, "This is probably "the most important product." Now, is that a board perspective bias, or is that really something that you guys believe? >> That's really organic. Metadata management is their core competency, and really their core asset inside of all their applications at Informatica, and that's what the big data catalog is all about. It's not just a data catalog, it's a metadata catalog for data discovery and so forth. Everything that is done inside of the Informatica portfolio requires a central metadata repository, and I think we at Wikibon, in our recent report on the big data market, focused on the big data catalog as being one of the key pieces of infrastructure going forward in multi-cloud. You know, there's not just Informatica, there's Alation, and there's Codero, Hortonworks and IBM and others that are going deep on their big data catalogs. >> So you see that's a flagship product for these companies. >> Well let's put it this way, AI has been around since the late 1940s. The algorithms for doing AI have been around, '40s, '50s. The algorithms have been around for years. But the point is, what's occurred recently is the introduction of technology that can actually run these algorithms, that can actually sustain the algorithms against very large volumes of data. So the technology's gotten to the point where you can actually do some of this stuff. The catalog concept has been around for as long as database managers have been around. The problem was you could only build a catalog for just that database manager. The promise of building enterprise-wide catalogs, that dream has been in place for years. One of the worst two days of my life was flying back from Japan, into New York, and sitting in an IBM information model meeting for analysts. It was absolutely-- >> Was that the 40s or 50s? (laughter) >> That was in the 80s. It was absolute hell. But the point is that Informatica is now-- >> You were the prodigy. >> Yeah, I was a prodigy. Informatica is now bringing together a combination of technologies, including CLAIRE, to make it possible to actually do catalog in a very active way. And that's trend setting. >> I think they're right too. I think that's clearly, they make a good product because I've got to say, you know, watching them for five years. This is our fourth year coming to Informatica World. Our first meeting with Anil, when he was chief product officer, was 2014 and so we've seen the progression. They're right on track, and I think they have an opportunity with IoT and blockchain, but the question I want to ask you guys is, this event of about 4,000 people, not a huge big data show, but it's really all about data. There's no distractions. The fact that they can't even get a lot of IoT airtime means that there's been a lot of core discussions. >> They're really focused. >> This is not like a Strata-- >> No. >> Where everyone's marketing some tool or platform. >> These guys are down and dirty with the products. >> They are really focused on their core opportunities, and like Peter was saying, they're really focused, they're the premier, I see the data pipeline solution or platform vendor. The data pipeline is the center of the AI revolution. And so in many ways, all of the forces, all of the trends have converged to the advantage of Informatica as being the core, go-to vendor for a complete data pipeline for all your requirements, including machine learning development. >> There's one more thing. We didn't hear blockchain, we didn't hear IoT, although I bet you there's a lot of conversation, one-on-ones between customers and Informatica about some of those things. But there's one other thing we didn't hear, which I think is very telling, and speaks to some of our trends. We didn't hear open source. Open source was not once mentioned on theCUBE, except maybe you mentioned it once. >> John: You're right. >> Now, if we think about where the big data market was forged, and where it was going to always remain, was it was going to be this big, huge, open-source play. And that has not happened. Informatica, by saying, "We're going to have "a great individual product, "and a great portfolio that works together," is demonstrating that the way to show how the new compute model is going to work is to take a coherent, integrated, focused approach on how to do it. >> It's interesting, I mean we could dissect this. Open source is a great observation, because is there really open source needed if you have a pipeline thing? I'd much rather have a discussion about open data, which I think as your deal points to, is getting into hybrid cloud as fast as possible in a console. To me, that's so much more powerful than open source. >> Jim: Open APIs. >> Open APIs where I can not get locked into Azure. >> I think open source is still important, but I'll bet you that the open source, if you start looking at what these guys are doing and others like them are doing, my guess is that we'll see open source vendors saying, "Oh, so that's how you're going to do catalog. "Okay great, so let's take an open source approach "to doing that." And you know, Informatica's going to have to stay in front of that. >> They might be using some open source. It might not be a top-line message. But let's go the next level, let's go critical analysis on Informatica. What does Informatica need to do, obviously they've got a tail wind, they've got great timing with GDPR, you couldn't ask for a better time to showcase engineering data, governance and application integration across clouds than now. So they're in a good spot. Where are they strong? What do they need to work on? >> Well okay, let's just focus on GDPR, because it is three days from now for that compliance date. GDPR, I mean, Informatica's had some good announcements at this show and prior to this show, in terms of tools for discovery of all your PII and so forth, so you can catalog it in the big data catalog. What needs to be built up by them and other vendors as well, is a more fully fleshed-out, GDPR compliance platform, or portfolio, or ecosystem. There's a lot of things that are needed, like a standardized consent portal so your customers can go in, look up their PII in your big data catalog and indicate their consent or their withdrawal of consent for you to use particular pieces of data. Hortonworks a few weeks ago at their data works in Berlin, they made an announcement related to such a portal. What I'm getting at is that more vendors, including this, every big data catalog vendor needs to have in their portfolio, and will, and I predict within the next two years, a consent portal as one of several important components to enable not just GDPR compliance, but really compliance with any such privacy-- >> A subject portal that offers consent but then is verified. >> Jim: For example, but it needs to be open source. >> Here's what I'll say, John. And we had a conversation about it with Amil, the present chief product officer. I think that if Informatica, similar to what we think, is on the right path, the world is moving to an acknowledgment that data has to be treated as an asset. That tooling is required so that you can do so. And that you have to re-institutionalize work, re-organize work, and re-think, culturally, what it means to use data as an asset. >> With penalties down the road, obviously on the horizon. >> Well there are penalties, and you know, proximate like GDPRs, but also you're out of business if you don't do these kinds of penalties. But one of the things that's going to determine what's going to gate their growth is how many people will actually end up utilizing these technologies? And so if I were to have one thing that I think they absolutely have to do, we're coming out of a world that's focused on we use process, and process models and process-oriented tools to build applications. We're moving into a world where we use data, data methods, data models to build applications. This notion of a data-first world as opposed to a process-first world, Informatica has to take a lead on what it means to be data-first, tooling for data-first, building applications that are data-first, and very importantly, that's how you're going to grow your user base. >> Sajit was talking about data value, data value chains or whatever it's called. >> Supply chains. >> Data supply chains. I think there's going to be a series of data supply chains that are going to be well-formed, well-defined, and ones that are going to be dynamic. Seeing it happening now. >> And actually that's an interesting discussion, data value chains, data supply chains, but really, data monetization chains. The whole GDPR phenomenon is that your customer's PI is their property, and that you need their consent to use it, and to the extent that they give you consent. On some level, the customer's expecting a return of value to them. You know, maybe monetization. Maybe they make money, but more enterprises have to start thinking of data as a product. And then they need to license the IP from whoever owns it. >> Peter: This is a huge issue. >> And vendors like Informatica need to understand that phenomenon and bake it, as it were, into their solution portfolio. >> Either they're going to be on the right side of history on that, or the wrong side, because you're right and you just highlighted Peter's point, which is that data direction, not the process, to your point. >> Data first. >> If I own the data, it's got to be very dynamic. Okay, my final comment would be, and I mentioned this last night when we were talking, is that I think that things are clicking for them. I think they've got tail winds, I think they're smart enough on the product side. The trend is their friend. They've got the clould deals in place. They're in a nice layer in the stack where they can be that Switzerland. You've got storage vendors underneath, there's a nice data layer, so in the position, with coming over the top cloud-native Kubernetes and containers-- >> This is going to get messy fast. >> John: I didn't hear Kubernetes at all this show. >> Hold on, let me finish. This is going to be a robust Switzerland model where I don't think they can handle the onboarding of partners. I think they have a lot of partners now from their standpoint, but I think they might have an AWS factor where they're going to have to start thinking really hard about how to be efficient about onboarding partners. To your point about adoption, this is going to be a huge issue that could make or break them. They could scale the partnership model through the APIs, they could have a robust ecosystem. That could show us 15,000-- >> If they could be a magnet brand inside Azure, or a magnet brand inside AWS for how you think about building new classes of value, applications and others, with a data-first approach, then a lot of interesting things could happen. >> Yeah, they could be a magnet brand to avoid getting disintermediated by their public cloud partners because Microsoft's got a portfolio they could place with theirs. AWS has built one. >> Everybody wants this. >> Yeah, everybody wants them. >> Guys, great job. Peter, great to host with you. Jim, great to have you on, making an appearance in between your meetings, one-on-ones and the analyst stuff. >> I'm a busy man. >> That's theCUBE here, wrapping up day two of coverage here at Informatica World 2018. The trend is their friend. Data's at the center of the value proposition, and more strategic ever, data engineering, governance, application. This is all happening right now. Regulations on the horizon. A cultural shift happening. And we're out here in the open doing it, sharing the data with you. Thanks for watching Informatica World 2018. (energetic music)

>> Announcer: Live from midtown Manhattan it's theCUBE covering Big Data New York City 2017. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media and it's ecosystem sponsors. (upbeat techno music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Big Data NYC for all the access. It's our fifth year doing our own event in New York City. The hashtag is BigDataNYC. Also, in conjunction with Strata Hadoop, used to be called Hadoop World, then Strata Hadoop. Now, it's called Strata Data as they try to grope to where the future's going to be. A lot of hype over there. A lot of action. But here as where we do the intimate interviews and the stories. I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCUBE with Emma McGrattan who is the Senior Vice President of Engineering at Actian. Great to have you on. >> Thanks for having me. >> We love having everyone from Ireland cause the accidents great traction. So, I appreciate you coming on. Have a beer later at the pub. New York's got to lot of great Irish pubs. In all seriousness, we've had Actian on before. Mike Hoskins has been on. We had Jeff Veis on yesterday giving us the marketing angle of hybrid data that you guys are doing. What's under the hood? Because Actian has a lot of technology in their portfolio through how you guys had your growth strategy. But now as the world wants to bring it together you're seeing some real critical trends. >> Emma: Right. >> A lot of application development where data's important. Huge amount of security challenges. People are trying to build out and bring security out of IT. And then you've got all this data covering stuff. That's just on the top line. Then you got IOT. So, people are busy. Their plates are full, and data's the center of it. So, what are you guys doing to bring all of Actian together? >> Emma: That's a great question, perfect question for Actian. So, we have in Actian a number of products in the portfolio. And we believe that best fit product. So, if you're doing something like graph database, it doesn't make sense to put a Vector in Hadoop solution against that. And we've got the right fit technology for what we're doing. And for IOT we've got an embedded database that's as small as 30 megs. So, I've got PowerPoint files that are bigger than this database. You put it in a device, set it, it can run for 20 years. You never have to touch it. But all that data that's being generated typically you're generating it because you want, at some point, to be able to analyze it. And we've gone in the portfolio and Vector in Hadoop has the ability to take that data from the IOT sources and perform very high-speed analytics on that. So, the products that we have within the portfolio are focused around data integration, so pulling data into an environment where you're going to perform analysis or otherwise operationalize that data, data management. A lot of our customers are just doing CRM, ERP applications on our product platforms. And then the analytics is where I get really excited cause there's so much happening in the analytics world in terms of new types of applications being built, in terms of real time requirements, in terms of security and governance that you're talking about in reference in your question. And we've got a unique solution that can address all of those areas in our Vector in Hadoop products. So, it's interesting that we see the name Hadoop coming out of the show this week because we see that the focus on Hadoop kind of moving to the background and where the real focus is around the data and not so much-- >> And the business value. >> I hate to sound cliché about outcomes but we were joking on theCUBE yesterday and kind of can't coin the term, "Outcomes as a service." Which is kind of a goof on the whole, "It's about the outcomes." Which is a cliché in tech. But that really is the truth. At the end of the day, you've got a business goal. But the role of data now in real time is key. You're seeing people want real time. Not real time response with old data, they want the real data. So, people are starting to look at data as a really instrumental part of the development process. Similar with DevOps did with infrastructure as code, people want data to be like code. >> Emma: Exactly. >> And that is a hard >> Architectural challenge. So, if you go into your customer base what do you guys tell them? And I was going to the hybrid cloud as the marketing message. But I have challenged, I'm the CXO. I'm the CDO. I'm the CIO. I'm the CFO, COO, whatever the person making these huge, sweeping operational cost decisions. What's the architecture? Cause that's what people are working on right now. And how do you present that? >> Right. So, we recognize the fact that everybody's got a very distributed environment. And part of the message around hybrid data is that data can be generated pretty much any place. You may be generating data in the cloud with your own custom applications. You may be using salesforce.com or NetSuite or whatever. And you've got your on-premise sources of data generation. And what we provide in Actian is the ability to access all of that data in real time, and make it part of the applications that you're deploying that is going to be able to react in real time to changes. You don't want to be acting on yesterday's data because things have happened, things have moved on. So, the importance of real time is not lost on Actian. And all of these solutions that we bring together enable that real time analysis of what's happening in every part of the environment. So, it's hybrid in terms of the type of data that you're working with. It's hybrid in terms of it could be generated in the cloud, in any cloud or on-premise, and being able to pull all of that together an perform real time analysis is incredibly important to generate value from the data. >> Emma, I want to get your thoughts on a comment that I heard last night and then multiple times but the same pattern, they don't get it. "They" could be the venture capitalists as part of the startup. Or the customer has, "Oh, this is the way we do it." There's definitely things that are out there Silo's Legacy things that are-- Still not going away, and we know that. But how do you go into a customer saying look, there's a whole new way of doing things right now. It's not necessarily radical lift and shift or rip and replace. Whatever word you want to use. There's always a word that, you don't like rip and replace, we'll say lift and shift. It's the same thing, right? >> Right. >> You don't want to do a lot of incremental operational wholesale changes. >> Right. >> But you want to do incremental value now. How do you go in and say, "Look, this is the way you want to think about real time in your architecture." Because I don't necessarily want to change my operational mindset for the sake of Salesforce and all these different data sources. How do you guys have that conversation? >> So, Actian is unique in that we have a consumer base that goes back 20, 30 years. I personally will be at Actian 25 years in December. So, we've got customers that are running our I'd like to call them Legacy products, but they're products that powering their business every day of the week. And we've also got incredibly innovative product that we're on the bleeding edge. And what we've done in our recent release of Actian X is do combined bleeding edge technology with this more mature and proven technology. So, at Actian X you've got the OLTP database that was Ingres and now got rebranded because it's got new capabilities. And then we've taken the engine from Actian Vector product, and brought that into Actian X so that you can do in real time analysis of your OLTP data. And we act in real time to changes in the data. And it's interesting that you talk about real time because it means different things to different people. So, if you're talking to somebody doing risk analysis, real time is milliseconds. If you're talking to some customers, real time is yesterday's data and that's fine. And what we've done with Actian X is to provide that ability to determine for yourself what real time means to you and to provide a solution that enables you to respond in real time. Now, bringing analytics into what is a more traditional OLTP database, and kind of demonstrating for them some of the new capabilities it enables and opens up other opportunities as far as we can have conversations about maybe backing up that dataset to the cloud. Somebody that may have been risk averse and not looking at cloud all of a sudden is looking at cloud, looking at analytics, and then kind of opening up new opportunities for us. And new opportunities for them cause the data, as they say, is the new oil. >> That's great, great. And you guys have a good customer base to draw from. So, you've got to bring in the shiny new toy but make it work with existing. So, it sounds like you been like an extraction layer that you're building on tech that was very useful and is useful, by decoupling it with new software that adds value. Is it an extraction layer of sorts? >> We don't think of it as an extraction layer but certainly one could think of it that way because it's ... Well, yeah it's-- >> John: It's a product. You basically take the old product and bring new stuff to it. >> Exactly. >> Okay, so I got to ask you about the trend around IOT. Because IOT is one of those things right now that's super hype. And I think it's going to be even more hype. But security has been a big problem and I hear a lot honestly, certainly IOTs on the agenda. Industrial IOT is kind of the low-hanging fruit. They go to that first. But no one wants to be the next Equifax. So, there's a lot of security stuff that causes, plus there's other things going on they got to take care of. How do you guys talk about the security equation where you can come in and put in a reliable workable solution and still make the customer's feel like they're moving the ball down the field. >> So, that's one of the benefits that we have of being in the industry for as long as we have. We have very deep understanding as to what security requirements are. In terms of providing capabilities within the product to do things like control who can access what data and to what degree. Can they update it? Can they only read it? Providing the ability to encrypt the data. So, for many usecases the data is so sensitive that you'd always want to encrypt it when it's stored. You'd want any traffic coming in and out of the environment to be encrypted. Being able to audit everything that's happening in the environment, who's issuing what queries and from where and to set alarms or something if somebody attempts to access data that they shouldn't be attempting to access. So, taking all of those capabilities together, we're then able to look at things like GDPR. What are the requirements for securing the data? And we've got all the capabilities within the product. And we've got the credibility cause we've been doing this for 30 years, that we can secure these environments. We can conform to the various standards and mandates that are put in place for data security. So, we have a very strong story to tell-- >> John: What is your position >> John: On GDPR? Obviously, you've got a super important, I call it the Y2K that actually is real cause you have there compliance issues. There's a lot of, obviously, political things going on but this is a real problem, about to move fast as a solution. What are you guys offer there? >> Equifax was a prime example of why GDPR is incredibly important. So, for Actian, and you know, I talked about the capabilities we provide with regard to securing data, and secure access to that data. And when it comes to GDPR, a lot of it is around process. So, what we're doing is guiding our customers and making sure that they have secure processes in place. Putting all of the smarts into the technology, and then having somebody doing an offline backup on a CD that they leave on a seat on the train which has, in the past, been a source of data breeches, is an issue with process and not with technology. So, we're helping with that. And helping in educating-- >> John: Equifax had some >> BPN issues but also, I mean, I haven't reported on this yet also have confirmed that there were state actors involved, foreign actors penetrating in through their franchise relationships. So, in partnering in an open internet these days you need to understand who the partners are even if they're in the network. >> Absolutely. And that's why this whole idea of providing all of the capabilities required for data security including auditing, who's coming in. So, failed attempts to get into the system should be reported as problems. And that's a capability that we have within the database. >> So, you've been at Actian for 25 years, I did not know. That's cool. Good folks over there. I've been to the office a few times. I'm sure you got a good healthy customer base but for the folks that don't know Actian. What's the pitch from your standpoint? Not the marketing pitch hybrid data, I get that. I mean, what should they know about you guys. What is the problem that you saw? What do you bring to the table? From an engineering perspective, how do you differentiate? >> So, my primary focus is around high-speed analytics. And so, Actian enables the fastest SQL access to data, on Hadoop and off of Hadoop, proven through benchmarks. So, high-speed analytics is incredibly important. But for Actian, we're unique in having this 30 year history where we understand what it is to run 24/7, mission critical operational databases. So, Actian's known for products like Ingres, like Psql, and being able to analyze data that's operationalized but then also bringing in new data sources. Cause that's where things are really going. But people want to choose the best application whether it's in the cloud or on-premise, it doesn't matter. It's the best application for their need. And being able to pull all of that data together, and for operational purposes, and for analytics purposes is incredibly important. And Actian enables all of that. >> And that's where the hybrid is really clever and smart because you got the consumption side and the creation side, and data integration isn't a project, it's real. It just happens. >> Emma: Right. >> So, you want to enable that. I can see that would be a key benefit. Certainly as, whether these decentralized apps get more traction, you're going to start to see more immutable things transactions happening. Blockchain clearly points to that direction of the market where that's cool. Distributed computing has been around for awhile but now decentralized we know how to behave there. So, we're seeing some apps that will probably be rewritten for that. But again, if architected properly that should be a problem. >> Right, exactly. And we don't want anybody to have to rewrite apps. What we want to be able to do is to provide a platform where the data that you need is available. >> John: Yeah, they're called Dapps for decentralized apps. It's a whole new wave coming, it's not being talked about here at the show. We are on, obviously, at Silicon Angle and Wikibon are those trends as we're riding the big wave. Okay, Em, I want to ask you a final question. Kind of take your Actian hat off, put your Irish techie hat on, and let's get down and dirty on what the main problem in the industry is right now. If you look back and kind of go to the balcony if you will, look at the stage of the industry, obviously Hadoop is now in the background. It's an element of the bigger picture. We're seeing, we were commenting yesterday that these customers have these tool sheds of all these tools they've bought. They bought a hammer that wants to be a lawnmower, right? It's just like they have their tool platforms are being pitched at them. There's a lot of confusion. What's the main problem that the industry's trying to solve? If you look at it, if you can put the dots together. What is the big problem that needs to be solved, that the industry should be solving? >> So, I think data is every place, right? And there's not a whole lot of discipline around corralling that and putting security around it. Being able to deploy security policies across data regardless of where it's deployed or sourced. So, I think that's probably the biggest challenge is bringing compute to the data and pulling all of that together. And that's the challenge that we're addressing. >> And so, the unification, if you will, people use that word, all unifying data. What does that actually mean? You guys call it hybrid data which means you have some flexibility if you need it. >> Emma: Right. >> All right, cool. Emma, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. Congratulations on your success. And again, you guys got to a good spot. You got a broad portfolio, you're bringing together with hybrid data. Best of luck. We'll keep in touch. Emma McGrattan here, the Senior Vice President of Engineering at Actian here on theCUBE. More live coverage here in New York City from theCUBE's coverage of Big Data NYC after this short break. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas! It's theCUBE. Covering Edge 2016. Brought to you by IBM. Here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Welcome back to IBM Edge everybody. This is theCUBE's fifth year covering IBM Edge. We were at the inaugural Edge five years ago in Orlando. Marc Linster is here and he's joined by Lenley Hensarling. Marc is the Senior Vice President of Product Development. And Lenley is the Senior Vice President of Product Management and Strategy at EDB, Enterprise Database. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for coming on. >> Male Voice: Thank you. >> Okay, who wants to start. Enterprise Database, tell us about the company and what you guys are all about. >> Well the company has been around for little over 10 years now. And our job is really to give companies the ability to use Postgres as the platform for their digital business. So think about this, Postgres is a great open source database. Great capabilities for transactional management of data. But also multi-model data management. So think about standard SQL data but think also about document oriented, think about key-value pair. Think about GIS. So a great capability that is very, very robust. Has been around for quite a few years. And is really ready to allow companies to build on them for the new digital business but also to migrate off their existing commercial databases that are too expensive. >> What's the history of Postgres? Can you sort of educate me on that? >> Sort of the same roots back with System R, where DB2 came from, Oracle came from. So Berkeley, that's where the whole thing started out. Postgres is really the successor to Ingres. >> Dave: Umhmm. >> And then it turned into PostgreSQL. And it has been licensed under open source license, the Postgres license since 1996. And it's a very, very vibrant open source community that has been driving forward for many years now. And our view is the best available relational and multi-model database today. >> It's the mainspring of relational database management systems essentially >> Marc: Yeah. >> is what you're saying. And Lindley, from a product standpoint, how do you productize that, open source. >> Open source really, companies that have a distribution of open source for database and operating system, whatever the open source company most people are acquainted with, is Red Hat and Linux right. And so, we do the same thing that they do but for Postgres database. We take the distribution, we add testing, we add some other functionality around it so you can run Postgres responsively as Marc likes to say. So high availability, capability, fail-over management, replication, a backup solution. And instead of leaving it as an exercise for a customer, who wants to use open source, we test all this together. And then we validate it and we give them a complete package with documentation and services that they can access to help them be successful it. >> So if Michael Stonebraker were sitting right here, I say Michael, what do you think about Postgres? I'd say I had to start Vertica because we needed a new way. Yet, sort of PostgreSQL, is the killer remains the killer platform in the industry, doesn't it? >> Male Voice: Umhmm. Why is that? It's interesting when you talk to guys like Stonebraker, it's sort of dogma almost. But yet, customers, talk with their wallet. >> And it is, >> He did a very, very nice job of architecting it. It is a database that is extensible. The reason we add the first JSONB or document oriented implementation in the relational database space is because it was designed to make it easy to add new capabilities, new datatypes, new indexes, et cetera, into the same transactional model. That's why we have JSONB. That's why we have PostGIS. That's why we have key-value pair. So it was really well architected. And when you think about who else, not just Vertica has taken this engine >> Dave: Yeah. >> It is in Netezza, it is in a bunch of other. >> Dave: Master Data. >> Lenley: Greenplum. >> Greenplum yes. So it's a really robust architecture. Very, very nicely designed. It just does the job and it does it really well. Which is, what you want a database to do, right. It's not that exciting but it's really stable. It really works. The data is still there tomorrow. That's what really the requirements are. >> And to translate a little bit, Marc mentioned PostGIS, which is geo spacial capability for the Postgres database. And so we distribute that along with Postgres and test it so that you know it works. And he mentioned H-Store, so that's how you can actually store internet of things data really well into Postgres. And we talk about SQL, noSQL databases, so they're document databases. And the ability to have personalization at the same level you can in a document oriented database but in a structured SQL database are the kinds of things that have been added to Postgres over the years. Again, it's because of the basic architecture that Stonebraker put in place as an object relational database. >> It's so interesting to look at the history of database. Talk about Stonebraker, he's been on a number of times. It's just fascinating to listen to one of the fathers of this industry. But 10 years ago, database was like such a boring topic. And now it's exploded. Now you got Amazon going after Oracle. Oracle fighting the good fight. So many noSQL databases coming in. SQL becoming the killer big data app if you will. >> Male Voice: Umhmm. >> Why all of a sudden did database get so interesting? >> What happened was, application models changed. Led by Facebook, led by Amazon and Google. They said, let's refactor the applications and let's refactor the way we handle storage. >> Dave: Umhmm. >> And that led to the rise of the polyglot of databases is what a lot of people are saying. You have fit for purpose solutions and you may have three or four or five of them in your overall architecture. One thing about Postgres is, we're able to, because of the datatypes support that Marc mentioned, fit into that well. We don't try and do everything so if somebody says, I'm going to use Mongo for data capture, or I'm going to use Cassandra for capturing my internet of things data. We have what we call foreign data wrappers in the Postgres world. We call them just Enterprise DB Adapters but to Mongo, to Casandra, to Hadoop and can do bidirectional data there and just keep that data at rest over there in the other world. But be able to project relational schema onto it. We can push our data into those. We've got a great use case we've been talking about with a customer who had over a petabyte of data. And in the past what you do is, you'd go buy an expensive archiving solution and add that to it. Now, you just use Hadoop distributed file system. Push the data off there as it ages and have a foreign data wrapper that allows you to still query that data when it's out of your basic operational dataset. And move forward. >> Can I call that a connector or? >> Lenley: Yeah, a connector, that's not a bad idea. >> And it's interesting because If you guys remember Hadapt, probably. [Male Voices] Yeah. Yes. >> They came out, they were the connector killer. >> Male Voice: Umhmm. >> And it failed. >> Male Voice: Yeah. >> Seems like connectors are just fine. >> Male Voice: Yeah. >> And one of the really interesting things is, we call it data federation right. With philosophy here is, leave the data where it is. There are some data that should live in Hadoop or Cassandra. If I'm doing an e-commerce site with transactions and click streams, well, the click streams really should live in Hadoop. That the night natural place for them. The transactions should be in a transactional database. With the foreign data wrapper, I can run queries without moving the data, that will allow me to say, well, before you bought the brown teddy bear, which pages did you look at? >> Dave: Yeah. >> And I can do that integrated system and I can do a fit for purpose architecture. And that's what we think is really exciting. >> And that's fundamental to this new sort of programming or application models. >> Male Voice: That's right. >> The one that you were talking about is moving five megabytes of code to a petabyte of data. As opposed to moving data which we know has gravity and speed of light issues and so forth. >> Thank you for that little brief education. Appreciate it. So let's get into your business now, your relationship with IBM. What customers are doing. You mentioned IoT data so talk more about your business and your relationship with IBM and what you guys are doing for customers. >> There are a couple of things. We mentioned Oracle. And there are all the new databases. And then there's your, dare we say, legacy, proprietary databases as well. And people are looking to become more efficient in how they spend. We've done another thing with Postgres. We've added Oracle compatibility in terms of datatypes. So we support all the datatypes that Oracle does. And we support PL/SQL, they're sort of variant of stored procedure language. And implemented a lot of the packages that they have as well. So we can migrate workloads from Oracle over into an open source based solution. And give a lot cost effectiveness options to customers. >> Dave: Steal. This is a way that I can sort of have Oracle licensed database licensed and maintenance avoidance. >> Lenley: Yes. Yeah. >> Where possible, right. >> Where it makes sense. Where it makes sense. >> Obvious my quorum, I keep, but let's face it, the number one cost component of a TCO analysis of an Oracle customer is the database license and maintenance cost. >> Male Voice: That's right. >> It's not the people. One of the few examples I can think of where that's the case. There's always the people cost. [Male Voice] That's right, that's right. IT is very labor intensive. But for an Oracle customer, it's the database license. Cuz they license by Core. >> Male Voice: Yup. Cores are going through the roof. >> Male Voice: That's right. It's been great for Oracle's business. Although, wouldn't you agree, Oracle sees the writing on the wall that the SAS is really sort of the new control point for the industry. You see the acquisition of NetSuite and competition with Workday >> Male Voice: Yup. >> and the like. >> But the database remains the heart of the business. >> And really it's movement to the cloud, both private cloud and public cloud. And so we've been doing work there. We've had public cloud database as a service solution on Amazon for, what, [Marc] Four years. >> Four years, Marc. And have gained a lot experience with that. And were running that sort of running a retail, you can license the database and we'll provision it there. And so what we've done recently is change our perspective and said, let's put this into hands of customers. And let them standup their own database as a service. But also do it in a way that they can choose what workload should go to Amazon and what workload might go to their private cloud, built on open stack. And be able to arbitrage that if you will. Because they now have a way to provision the databases and make a choice about where to put it. >> So that's a bring your own license model that you just talked about? >> Bring your own license model or >> Are you in the Marketplace and, >> We're in the Marketplace in Amazon, where we can supply it that way. But customers have shown a preference for bring your own license. They want to make the best enterprise deal they can with a vendor like us or whomever else. And then have control over it. >> Amazon obviously wants you to be in the Marketplace. I won't even mention but I talked to some CEOs of database companies and they say, you know, we're in the Marketplace but we get in the Marketplace, next thing you know, Amazon is pushing them towards DynamoDB or you know. >> Male Voice: That's right, that's right. >> Now Amazon's come out with Aurora and Oracle migration and you know the intent to go after that business. Amazon's moving up the stack and you got to be careful. >> They are. But the thing about Amazon is that, they're a pure play in the cloud company. >> Dave: Yup. >> And all of the data shows that it's like a mix, it's going to be a hybrid cloud. Half the company in this world [Dave] Not Angie Jassie's data >> Eighty percent of the people in the cloud are going to be on-prem, still continuing their journey through virtualization. >> Dave: Yeah, that's right. >> Let along going to the cloud. But we want to be something that let's them put what they want in the public cloud and let's them manage on the private cloud in the same manner. So they can provision databases with a few clicks. Just like they do on Amazon. But do it in their data center. >> You doing that with Softlayer as well or not yet? >> Lenley: Not yet. >> Marc: Not yet. >> We've built this provisioning capability ourselves. And it came out of the work we did putting up databases on Amazon. >> So what are you guys doing here at Edge. Edge is kind of infrastructure show. Database is infrastructure. >> We're talking about our work with Power. >> Power is a big partner for us. Power is I think very, very interesting for our database customers. Because of the much higher clock speeds and the capabilities that the Power processor has. When I'm looking at Power, I get more oomph out of a single core which really for a database customer is very, very interesting. Because all databases are licensed by Core. >> Dave: Right. >> So it's a much better deal for the customer. And specifically for Postgres, Postgres scales very well with higher clock speeds. So by having, let's say, by growing performance, not by adding more cores but by making the individual cores faster, that plays very, very well to the Postgres capabilities. >> Okay, so you are a Power partner, part of that ecosystem that IBM is appealing to to grow the OpenPOWER base. And what kind of workloads are you seeing your customers demand and where you're having success? >> Across the board. Database is mostly infrastructure capabilities so there's a lot of interest that we're seeing that, for all kinds of applications really. >> What's the typical Power customer look like these days? You got some Oracle, you got some DB2, you guys are running on there, what's the mix? Paint the picture for us. >> I think the typical Power customer is the typical enterprise company. And, [Dave] Little bit of everything. >> It's a little bit of everything. But one of the key things is that, people are also looking at what they've got and the skills they have in place. You were talking about people cost right. [Dave] Yeah. >> And their understanding of management. Their understanding of how to manage the relationship with the vendor even. And then saying, look, how can I move into the new world of digital transformation and start my own private cloud options and things like that in an efficient way. That makes efficient use of hardware I have in place and has a growth curve and new hardware that's coming out that fits my workloads. >> Dave: Umhmm. >> And the profiles that Marc was talking about. >> And also the resources. Which is very interesting when we look at these new digital applications with Postgres. Because you can do so much in Postgres from geographic information systems to document oriented to key-value. But you can do that with your existing developers through existing DBAs. They don't need to go to school to learn a new database. And that's also a very, very, interesting capability. So you can use your existing team to do new stuff. [Male Voice] Yup. >> What's happening in IoT, what problems are you solving there and where's the limit? >> Sensor data collection. >> Lenley: Yeah. Real interesting because sensor data tends to come in all different forms. We have customer who collects temperature sensor, temperature data. But the sensors are all sending different data packets. So because we can do document oriented or key-value, we can easily accommodate that. In the old days with the relational model, I had to do all kinds of tricks to sort of stuff all that into a relational table. My table would be almost empty at the end because I'd have to add columns for every vendor et cetera. Here, now I can use put all that into the same format and provide it for analysis. So that's a real interesting capability. >> And it's interesting too because we've got really strong geo spacial data support. And the intersection of that, with IoT is a big deal. They track your iPhone, they know where we are. They know what's going on. That's sensor data. They know which lights in which building, which you know, louvers that are controlling HVAC are malfunctioning or not. They want to know specifically where it is, not just what the sensor is. And some of that stuff moves around. And it gets replaced in a new place in the building and such. So we're well setup to handle those types of workloads. >> What's interesting, when IBM bought the weather company, [Lenley] Yeah. >> And they thought okay great, they're getting all these data scientists and weather data, that's cool. They can monetize that but it's an IoT play, isn't it? [Male Voice] Right. Right. >> Talk about sensor. >> It's reference data. It's reference data for other company specific IoT plays. To have a broader set of sensors out there in their region and understand what's happening with weather and things. And then play that against what their experience is, managing new building or manufacturing processes, everything. >> So what's the engagement model. I'm a customer, I want to do business with you. How do I do it, how do I engage? >> Well, a lot of our businesses direct with us. Others through partners. And then a lot of customers come to us because they want to get off legacy systems. But really, what they do is, once they understand the database and the capabilities, they say, okay yeah, you can do the Oracle stuff. But what I'm really going to do with you is my new things. Because that's really exciting and it helps me kind of put a lid on the commercial license growth. So maybe I'm not going to get off it, but I will stop growing it. So I will start doing my new stuff on Postgres. Whenever I modernize something, Postgres is going to be my database of choice. If I already open up an application with its whole stack, this is one of the changes I'm going to make. And then the database as service, is very, very interesting. So these four entry vectors and what happens is, quite a few customers after a short time when they started with project or applications, they end up making Postgres as one of their database standards. Not the only one. But they make it one of the database standards so it gets into the catalog and every new project then has to consider Postgres. >> It's interesting, there's a space created as Microsoft sort of put all their wood behind the era of becoming a competitor to high end Oracle. And with this last release, they probably are on there, arguable. But they've also raised their prices too. And they've made the solution more complex. So there's this space that was vacated for like a ton of workloads and Postgres fits in there just about perfectly. We see enterprise after enterprise come to us with a sheet that says, now we're going to get some of this noSQL stuff. We're going to keep Oracle or DB2 over here for these really high end things. Run my financials, run my sales order processing, my manufacturing. And then we got this space in here. We got a slot for relational database and we want to go open source. Because of the cost savings. Because of other factors. It's ability to grow and not be bound to, hey, what if the vendor decides they're going to go for a new cooler thing and make me upgrade. >> Dave: Right. >> And I want to stay there and know that there's still being an investment made. And so there's a vibrant community around it. And it just fits that slot perfectly. >> You got to pay for that digital transformation and all these IoT initiates. You can't just keep pouring [Male Voice] Somehow. >> down to database licenses. [Male Voice] That's right. >> Tell me, we have to leave it there. >> Thanks very much >> Male Voice: Alright. >> for coming to theCUBE. >> Thanks so much. >> We appreciate the time. You welcome. [Male Voice] Enjoy it. Keep it right there buddy. We'll be right back with our next guest. This is theCUBE. We're live from IBM Edge 2016, be right back. (upbeat music)