>>Oh, welcome back to the Cube here at aws Reinvent 22. As we continue our coverage here, the AWS Global Showcase, the Startup Showcase, John Wall is here hosting for the Cube as we've been here all week. Hope you're enjoying our coverage here. This is day three, by the way. We're wrapping it up shortly with us to talk about what's going on in the, kind of the hotel world in it and what's going on in the cloud, especially at I hg is Eric Norman, head of infrastructure, architecture, and innovation at I H G Hotels and Resorts. Eric, good to see you, >>Sir. Oh, thank you. And thank you for inviting me. Yeah, >>You bet. Glad to have you board here on the queue. First time, I think too, by the way, right? >>It is. And can I just tell you who IHG is >>Real quick? Yeah, wait a second. First I want another rest. I got Introduc to Rod Stuller, who is the Vice president and of Solutions marketing at Aviatrix and Rod. Good to see you, sir. Thanks a lot. Now let's talk about I ih. >>Great. Well, IHGs a a hospitality company, it's been around for 200 years, that has 17 brands globally in over a hundred countries. We sleek, you know, up could up to 888,000 people a night. So it's a pretty large company that we compete with, you know, all the hotel companies globally. >>So let's talk about your, your footprint right now in, in terms of what your needs are, because you've mentioned obviously a lot of, you have a lot of customers needs, you have a lot of internal stakeholder needs. Yeah. So just from that perspective, how are you balancing out, you know, the products you wanna launch as opposed to the, on the development side and the maintenance side? >>Yeah, I mean we, we have focused our, our attention to our, our guests and our hotels globally and, and taking technology and from a foundation, getting it at, at the edge so that way the consumer and the hotel owner can deliver a quality product to a guest experience. You know, we've have moved larger, a large deployment of our mission critical applications over the last five years really, of moving into more SaaS and infrastructure like AWS and GCP and, and leveraging their global scale to be able to deliver at the edge or get closer to the edge. And so we've, you know, I'm pretty sure you've seen, you know, kind of people building, you know, mission critical apps. You know, probably in the last three years it's probably escalating and more of like a hockey stick of moving stuff. I'd love to hear what AVIA is seeing. Oh >>Yeah. Now we're, we're seeing that quite a bit, right? As people move into the cloud, it's now business critical applications that are going there. So good enough isn't good enough anymore, right? It has to be, you know, a powerful capability that's business critical, can support that, give people the ability to troubleshoot it when something goes wrong. And then multi-cloud, you mentioned a couple different cloud companies, a lot of enterprises are moving to multiple clouds and you don't want to have to do it differently in every cloud. You want a infrastructure management layer that allows you to do that across >>Clouds. So how do you go about that, you know, deciding what goes where. I mean, it sounds like a simple question, but, but if you are dealing in a lot of different kinds of environments, different needs and different requirements, whatever, you know, how are you sorting out, delegating, you know, you know, you're, you're you're gonna be working here, you're gonna be >>Working there. Yeah. So we built some standards base that says, you know, certain types of apps, you know, transactional base, you know, go to this cloud provider and data analytics that's gonna go to another, another cloud provider based on our decision of key capability, native capability, and, and also coverage. You know, cuz we are in China, right? You know, you know, I, I've gotta be able to get into China and, and build not only a network that can support that, but also business apps locally to meet, compete with compliance, regulatory type activities. I mean, even in, in the US market, I got, you know, California privacy laws, you know, you have globally, you've gotta deal with getting data applications into compliance for those globally, right? >>Yeah. So, so you got that compliance slash governance Yeah. Issue. Huge issue. Yeah. I would think for you, you gotta decide who's gonna get to what when, and also we have to meet certain regulatory standards as you pointed out. And not just there, but you got European footprint, right? I mean, you're global. Yeah. So, so you know, handling that kind of scope or scale, what kind of nightmares or challenges does that provide you and how's Aviatrix helping you solve >>That? Yeah, in the early days, you know, we were using cloud native, you know, constructs for networking and a little bit of a security type angle to it. What we found was, you know, you can't get the automation you need. You can't get the, the scalability, you know, cuz we're, we're trying to shift left our, you know, our DevOps and our ability to deploy infrastructure. Aviatrix had come in and, and provided a, a solution that gets us there quicker than anybody else. It's allow us to, you know, build a mesh network across all our regions globally. I'm able to deploy, you know, new landing zones or, you know, public cloud fairly quickly with my, you know, networking construct. We also, we found that because we are a multi hybrid cloud, we, we introduced on the edge a a new network. We had to introduce a performance hub architecture that's using Equinix that sits in every region in every public cloud and partner. Cuz all our partners, you know, we, we've moved a lot of stuff to sas. You know, Amadeus is our centralized reservation system. That's our key, you know? Sure. You know, reservation tool, it's so sourced out. I need to bring them in and I need to get data that's closer to where, in a region to where it needs the land so I can process it. Right. >>And it's a big world out there too. I mean, you're, you're not in your head Rod. So talk about if you would share some of the, the aviatrix experience in that regard. When you have a client like this that has these, you know, multinational locations and, and yet you're looking for some consistency and some uniformity. You don't, you know, you can't be reinventing the wheel every time something pops up, right? >>Right. No. And then, and it's about agility and speed and, you know, being able to do it with less people than you used to have to do things, right? You, you want to be able to give the developers what they need when they need it. There was a time when people were going around it, swiping their credit card and, and saying, it doesn't give me what I need. And so cloud is supposed to change that. So we're trying to deliver the ability to do that for the developers a lot faster than had been done in the past. But at the same time, giving the enterprise the controls, the security, the compliance that they need. And sometimes those things got in the way, but now we're building systems that allow that to happen at, at the piece that developers needed to happen. >>But what Rod said about, you know, one of the big things you sparked my thinking is it also, you know, building a overlay of the cloud native construct allows for visibility that, you know, you didn't have, you know, from a developer or even a operations day two operations, now you get that visibility into the network space and controls and management of that space a lot easier now, you know? >>Yeah. I mean, business critical applications, right? People, the people, the business does not care about networking, right? They see it as electricity and if it's down somebody else's problem to fix it. But the people who do need to keep it up, they need the telemetry. They need the ability to understand, are we trending in the wrong direction? Should we be doing something so that we don't get to the point where it goes down? And that's the kind of information that we're providing in this multi-cloud environment. You mentioned Equinix, we, we just have a partnership with Equinix where we're extending the cloud operational model that Aviatrix delivers all the way out to Equinix and that global fabric that you're talking about. So this is allowing the, the comp companies to have that visibility, that operational ability all the way globally. >>Yeah. Because you know, when you start building all these clouds now and multi regions, multiple AZs or different cloud providers or SaaS providers, you're moving data all over the place. And if you, if you don't have a single pane of glass to see that entire network and be able to route stuff accordingly, it's gonna be a zoo. It's not gonna >>Work. We were, I was talking earlier with, with another guest and we were just talking about companies in your case, I, I IHG kind of knowing what you have and it's not like such a basic thing he said, but yeah, you'd be surprised how many people don't know what they have. Oh, yeah. And so they're trying to provide that visibility and, and, and awareness. So, so I'm kind of curious because you were just the next interview up, so sorry Ken, but, but do you know what you have, I mean, are you learning what you have or is how do you identify, prioritize? How valuable is this asset as opposed to this can wait? I mean, is that still an ongoing process for >>You? It, it's definitely an ongoing process. I mean, we've done over the last three years of constantly assessing all our inventory of what we have, making sure we have the right mo roadmaps for each of the apps and products that we have. Cause we've turned to more of a product driven organization and a DevOps and we're, we're moving more and more product teams onto that DevOps process. Yep. So we can shift left a lot of the activities that developer in the past had to go over a fence to ask for help and, and, you know, kind of the automation of the network and the security built in allows us to be able to shift that left. >>Did that, I, you were saying too three years, right? You've been on, on this path Yep. Going back then to 2019 right. Pandemic hits, right. The world changes. How has that affected this three year period for you? And where are you in terms of where you expected to be and, and Yep. And then what's your, what are your headlights seeing down the road as to what your, your eventual journey, how you want that to end? >>I probably, the biggest story that we have a success story is when the pandemic did happen, you know, all our call centers, all agents had to go home. We were able within 30 days be able to bring up remote desktops, you know, workspaces an a uws and give access to globally in China and in Singapore and in the Americas. There's >>No small task there, >>That's for sure. So we built a desktop, certified it, and, and agents were able to answer calls for guests, you know, you know, so it was a huge success to us. Sure. It did slow down. I mean, during the pandemic it did slow us down from what gets migrated. You know, our focus is, you know, again, back to what I was saying earlier is around our guests and our loyalty and, you know, how do we give value back to our hotel owners and our guests? >>And how do you measure that? I mean, how do you know that what you're doing is working with, with that key audience? >>We'd measured by, you know, one occupa >>There so many, how many people do we have in the rooms? Right? But in terms of the interface, in terms of the effectiveness, the applications, in terms of what you're offering. Yeah. >>It gets back to uptime of our systems and you know, being able to deploy an application in multiple regions elevates the availability of the product to our guest. You know, the longer I'm up, the more revenue I can produce. Right. So, you know, so we, we try to, you know, we measure also guest satisfaction at the properties, you know, them using our tech and that kind of stuff to >>Be so you surveying just to find out what, how they feel about, so some, >>Cause we have a lot of tech inside of our hotels that allow for, we have ISG connect, which allows for people to go from one hotel another and not ask for passwords and, you know, that kind of stuff. >>That would not be made by the way. I'd be begging for help. Let's talk about skills, because I hear that a lot. Talk a lot about that this week. Hearing that, that, you know, the advancement of knowledge is obviously a very powerful thing, but it's also a bit of a shortcoming right now in terms of, of having a need for skills and not having that kind of firepower horsepower on your bench. What, what do you see in that regard? And, and first off, what did you see about it? And then I'll follow >>Up with Yeah, I mean, over our journey, it started off where you didn't have the skills, you know, you didn't have the skill from an operations engineering architecture. So we went on a, you know, you know, how do we build training programs? How do we get, you know, tools to, to either virtual training, bringing teachers, we built, you know, daily, our weekly calls where we bring our experts from our vendors in there to be able to ask questions to help engineering people or architecture people or operations to ask questions and get answers. You know, we, we've been on a role of, you know, upscaling over the last three years and we continue to drive that, you know, we have lunch and learns that we bring people to. Yep. You know, and, and we, and we, we ta tailor the, the content for that training based on what we are consuming and what we're using as opposed to just a, you know, a broad stroke of, of public cloud or, it's >>Almost like you don't have to be holistic about it. You just need to, what do you need to know to >>Make >>Them successful, to be better at what you're doing here? Right. Sure. >>And that's been huge. And, >>And yeah, we, and we have a program called ace, which is AVIATRIX certified engineer. And there's a bunch of different types of classes. So if you're a networking person in the past it's like A C C I E, but we have about 18,000 people over the last three years who have gone through that training. One of them. One of them, right? Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. And, and this is not necessarily about aviatrix. What we're doing is trying to give multi-cloud, you know, networking expertise because a lot of the people that we're talking about are coming from the data center world. And networking is so different in the cloud. We're helping them understand it's not as scary as they might think. Right. If your whole career has been networking in the data center and all of a sudden there's this cloud thing that you don't really understand, you need somebody to help you sort of get there. And we're doing that in a multi-cloud way. And we have all kinds of different levels to teach people how to do, do infrastructure as code. That's another thing, you know, data center guys, they never did infrastructure as code. It was, you had to bolt it in and plug stuff in. Right. But now things are being done much faster with infrastructure as code. And we're teaching people how >>To do that. Yeah. I mean, yesterday, one of the keynotes is about the partner in the, the marketplace. And they use the image imagery of, of marathon runner, you know, a marathon runner. Yeah. You could do a marathon by yourself, but if you want to improve and become a, a great marathon runner, you need a coach, you need nutritionist, you need people running with you to, to make that engine go faster a little bit. Yeah, exactly. And you know, having a partner like Aviatrix helps you know the team to be successful. >>Well, it is, it is a marathon, not a sprint. That's for sure. And you've been on this kind of three year jog. You might feel like you've been running a marathon a little bit, but it sounds like you're really off to a great start and, and have a pretty good partnership here. So thank you. Congratulations on that, Eric. Thank you for being with us. And Rod, same to you. Thank you. Appreciate the time here on the AWS Global Showcase. I'm John Wal, you're watching The Cube. We're out in Las Vegas and of course the cube, as you well know, is the leader in high tech coverage.

>>From around the globe. It's the Cube covering data citizens 21 brought to you by culebra. Hello everyone john walls here as we continue our cube conversations here as part of Data citizens 21 the conference ongoing caliber at the heart of that really at the heart of data these days and helping companies and corporations make sense. All of those data chaos that they're dealing with, trying to provide new insights, new analyses being a lot more efficient and effective with your data. That's what culebra is all about and their founder and their Chief data Citizen if you will stand christians joins us today and stan I love that title. Chief Data Citizen. What is that all about? What does that mean? >>Hey john thanks for having me over and hopefully we'll get to the point where the chief data citizen titlists cleaves to you. Thanks by the way for giving us the opportunity to speak a little bit about what we're doing with our Chief Data Citizen. Um we started the community, the company about 13 years ago, uh 2008 and over those years as a founder, I've worn many different hats from product presales to partnerships and a bunch of other things. But ultimately the company reaches a certain point, a certain size where systems and processes become absolutely necessary if you want to scale further for us. This is the moment in time when we said, okay, we probably need a data office right now ourselves, something that we've seen with many of our customers. So he said, okay, let me figure out how to lead our own data office and figure out how we can get value out of data using our own software at Clear Bright Self. And that's where it achieved. That a citizen role comes in on friday evening. We like to call that, drinking our own champagne monday morning, you know, eating our own dog food. But essentially um this is what we help our customers do build out the offices. So we're doing this ourselves now when we're very hands on. So there's a lot of things we're learning again, just like our customers do. And for me at culebra, this means that I'm responsible as achieved data citizen for our overall data strategy, which talks a lot about data products as well as our data infrastructure, which is needed to power data problems now because we're doing this in the company and also doing this in a way that is helpful to our customers. Were also figuring out how do we translate the learning that we have ourselves and give them back to our customers, to our partners, to the broader ecosystem as a whole. And that's why uh if you summarize the strategy, I like the sometimes refer to it as Data office 2025, it's 2025. What is the data office looked like by then? And we recommend to our customers also have that forward looking view just as well. So if I summarize the the answer a little bit it's very similar to achieve their officer role but because it has the external evangelization component helping other data leaders we like to refer to it as the chief data scientist. >>Yeah that that kind of uh you talk about evangelizing obviously with that that you're talking about certain kinds of responsibilities and obligations and when I think of citizenship in general I think about privileges and rights and about national citizenship. You're talking about data citizenship. So I assume that with that you're talking about appropriate behaviors and the most uh well defined behaviors and kind of keep it between the lanes basically. Is that is that how you look at being a data citizen. And if not how would you describe that to a client about being a data citizen? >>It's a very good point as a citizen. You have the rights and responsibilities and the same is exactly true for a day to citizens. For us, starting with what it is right for us. The data citizen is somebody who uses data to do their job. And we've purposely made that definition very broad because today we believe that everyone in some way uses data, do their job. You know, data universal. It's critical to business processes and its importance is only increasing and we want all the data citizens to have appropriate access to data and and the ability to do stuff with data but also to do that in the right way. And if you think about it, this is not just something that applies to you and your job but also extends beyond the workplace because as a data citizen, you're also a human being. Of course. So the way you do data at home with your friends and family, all of this becomes important as well. Uh and we like to think about it as informed privacy. Us data citizens who think about trust in data all the time because ultimately everybody's talking today about data as an asset and data is the new gold and the new oil and the new soil. And there is a ton of value uh data but it's not just organizations themselves to see this. It's also the bad actors out there were reading a lot more about data breaches for example. So ultimately there is no value without rescue. Uh so as the data citizen you can achieve value but you also have to think about how do I avoid these risks? And as an organization, if you manage to combine both of those, that's when you can get the maximum value out of data in a trusted manner. >>Yeah, I think this is pretty interesting approach that you've taken here because obviously there are processes with regard to data, right? I mean you know that's that's pretty clear but there are there's a culture that you're talking about here that not only are we going to have an operational plan for how we do this certain activity and how we're going to uh analyze here, input here action uh perform action on that whatever. But we're gonna have a mindset or an approach mentally that we want our company to embrace. So if you would walk me through that process a little bit in terms of creating that kind of culture which is very different then kind of the X's and oh's and the technical side of things. >>Yeah, that's I think where organizations face the biggest challenge because you know, maybe they're hiring the best, most unique data scientists in the world, but it's not about what that individual can do, right? It's about what the combination of data citizens across the organization can do. And I think there it starts first by thinking as an individual about universal goal Golden rule, treat others as you would want to be treated yourself right the way you would ethically use data at your job. Think about that. There's other people and other companies who you would want to do the same thing. Um now from our experience and our own data office at cordoba as well as what we see with our customers, a lot of that personal responsibility, which is where culture starts, starts with data literacy and you know, we talked a little bit about Planet Rock and small statues in brussels Belgium where I'm from. But essentially um here we speak a couple of languages in Belgium and for organizations for individuals, Data literacy is very similar. You know, you're able to read and write, which are pretty essential for any job today. And so we want all data citizens to also be able to speak and read and write data fluently if I if I can express it this way. And one of the key ways of getting that done and establishing that culture around data uh is lies with the one who leads data in the organization, the Chief Petty Officer or however the roll is called. They play a very important role in this. Um, the comparison maybe that I always make there is think about other assets in your organization. You know, you're you're organized for the money asset for the talent assets with HR and a bunch of other assets. So let's talk about the money asset for a little bit, right? You have a finance department, you have a chief financial officer. And obviously their responsibility is around managing that money asset, but it's also around making others in the organization think about that money asset and they do that through established processes and responsibilities like budgeting and planning, but also ultimately to the individual where, you know, through expense sheets that we all off so much they make you think about money. So if the CFO makes everyone in the company thinks about think about money, that data officer or the data lead has to think has to make everyone think uh in the company about data as a as it just as well and and those rights those responsibilities um in that culture, they also change right today. They're set this and this way because of privacy and policy X. And Y. And Z. But tomorrow for example as with the european union's new regulation around the eye, there's a bunch of new responsibilities you have to think about. >>Mhm. You know you mentioned security and about value and risk which is certainly um they are part and parcel right? If I have something important, I gotta protect it because somebody else might want to um to create some damage, some harm uh and and steal my value basically. Well that's what's happening as you point out in the data world these days. So so what kind of work are you doing in that regard in terms of reinforcing the importance of security, culture, privacy culture, you know this kind of protective culture within an organization so that everybody fully understands the risks. But also the huge upsides if you do enforce this responsibility and these good behaviors that that obviously the company can gain from and then provide value to their client base. So how do you reinforce that within your clients to spread that culture if you will within their organizations? >>Um spreading a culture is not always an easy thing. Um especially a lot of organizations think about the value around data but to your point, not always about the risks that come associated with it sometimes just because they don't know about it yet. Right? There's new architecture is that come into play like the clouds and that comes with a whole bunch of new risk. That's why one of the things that we recommend always to our uh customers and to data officers and our customers organizations is that next to establishing that that data literacy, for example, and working on data products is that they also partners strongly with other leaders in their organization. On the one hand, for example, the legal uh folks, where typically you find the aspects around privacy and on the other hand, um the information security folks, because if you're building up a sort of map of your data, look at it like a castle, right that you're trying to protect. Uh if you don't have a map of your castle with the strong points and weak points and you know, where people can build, dig a hole under your wall or what have you, then it's very hard to defend. So you have to be able to get a map of your data. A data map if you will know what data is out there with being used by and and why and how and then you want to prioritize that data which is the most important, what are the most important uses and put the appropriate protections and controls in place. Um and it's fundamental that you do that together with your legal and information security partners because you may have as a data leader you may have the data module data expertise, but there's a bunch of other things that come into play when you're trying to protect, not just the data but really your company on its data as a whole. >>You know you were talking about 2025 a little bit ago and I think good for you. That's quite a crystal ball that you have you know looking uh with the headlights that far down the road. But I know you have to be you know that kind of progressive thinking is very important. What do you see in the long term for number one? You're you're kind of position as a chief data citizen if you will. And then the role of the chief data officer which you think is kind of migrating toward that citizenship if you will. So maybe put on those long term vision uh goggles of yours again and and tell me what do you see as far as these evolving roles and and these new responsibilities for people who are ceos these days? >>Um well 2025 is closer than we think right? And obviously uh my crystal ball is as Fuzzy as everyone else's but there's a few things that trends that you can easily identify and that we've seen by doing this for so long at culebra. Um and one is the push around data I think last year. Um the years 2020, 2020 words uh sort of Covid became the executive director of digitalization forced everyone to think more about digital. And I expect that to continue. Right. So that's an important aspect. The second important aspect that I expect to continue for the next couple of years, easily. 2025 is the whole movement to the cloud. So those cloud native architecture to become important as well as the, you know, preparing your data around and preparing your false, he's around it, et cetera. I also expect that privacy regulations will continue to increase as well as the need to protect your data assets. Um And I expect that a lot of achieved that officers will also be very busy building out those data products. So if you if you think that that trend then okay, data products are getting more important for t data officers, then um data quality is something that's increasingly important today to get right otherwise becomes a garbage in garbage out kind of situation where your data products are being fed bad food and ultimately their their outcomes are very tricky. So for us, for the chief data officers, Um I think there was about one of them in 2002. Um and then in 2019 ISH, let's say there were around 10,000. So there's there's plenty of upside to go for the chief data officers, there's plenty of roles like that needed across the world. Um and they've also evolved in in responsibility and I expect that their position, you know, it it is really a sea level position today in most organizations expect that that trend will also to continue to grow. But ultimately, those achieved that officers have to think about the business, right? Not just the defensive and offensive positions around data like policies and regulations, but also the support for businesses who are today shifting very fast and we'll continue to uh to digital. So those Tv officers will be seen as heroes, especially when they can build out a factory of data products that really supports the business. Um, but at the same time, they have to figure out how to um reach and always branch to their technical counterparts because you cannot build that factory of data products in my mind, at least without the proper infrastructure. And that's where your technical teams come in. And then obviously the partnerships with your video and information security folks, of course. >>Well heroes. Everybody wants to be the hero. And I know that uh you painted a pretty clear path right now as far as the Chief data officer is concerned and their importance and the value to companies down the road stan. We thank you very much for the time today and for the insight and wish you continued success at the conference. Thank you very much. >>Thank you very much. Have a nice day healthy. >>Thank you very much Dan Christians joining us talking about chief data citizenship if you will as part of data citizens 21. The conference being put on by caliber. I'm John Wall's thanks for joining us here on the Cube. >>Mhm.

>>from around the >>globe. It's the cube >>with digital >>Coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM >>Well how everybody john wall is here on the CUBA as we continue our IBM think initiative And today talking with Clemens, Raymond, who is the global CTO cloud and DeVOPS leader at Cap Gemini And Clemens, thanks for joining us here on the cube. Good to see you today. >>Thank you. Thank you very much. Nice to be here. >>Yeah. Tell us a little bit about Cap Gemini. If you will first off for our viewers at home that might not be familiar with your services. Tell us a little bit about that and maybe a little bit about your specific responsibilities there. >>So who doesn't know Cap Gemini in this system? Integrator world and the world has been living on the stone. And uh, so Geminis a worldwide system, integrated liquid offerings in all kinds of spaces in all areas there. >>Uh, my >>responsibility is mainly around cloud and devils >>have taken care >>our countries on delivery centers have the right knowledge around clouds, right capabilities around devils to support our customers and with their journey to the cloud into a digital organization. >>Everybody's talking about digital these days, right. And everybody this magical digital transformation that's occurring that's been going on for quite some time. Um, what does that look like to you? And when you start defining digital organizations and digital transformations, what are the kinds of things that you're talking about with organizations in terms of that kind of migration path? >>Yeah, so it's quite interesting to start discussion about how does a digital landscape looks like >>for an >>organization wants to start transforming to a digital organization. >>And then when you are >>looking at that, I'm always starting the discussion with business capabilities. An organization wants to create business capabilities >>either to uh, interact and engage with their workforce to make them work in the most efficient way. And what we are using for that are all kinds of different digital channels and those digital channels that can be a mobile app. I'm working with my mobile app to connect with my work, I'm calling, I'm using zoom are using teams and that kind of stuff were also using chatbots for IOT devices and that's what the normal workforce expect. Nowadays all have to have all those digital channels to interact with the business. That's also on the other side, at the customer side, our organizations want to to to engage and and grow on the customer side and have the nice interaction there. And again they are using those digital channels, all the different digital channels, maybe IOT maybe a P. I. S. To interact with those customers to bring them uh the engagement interaction they really want to have. And and in that transformation part definitely they are looking at what kind of challenges I have with working with customers like this and working with my workforce now everybody is working from home, challenges with maybe with uh connections and that kind of stuff, but they're also starting to leverage and that's that's where the transformation and migration starts with their their own prem systems, their legacy systems to move those kinds of capabilities and enriched with cloud native capabilities to all kinds of enterprise solutions, like the ones from IBM for example to expose that to their digital channels to their organizations and that that's the landscape how it looks like. And then we have the discussion with organizations, How do you want to engage with your customers? What kind of digital channels do you need? Uh What are the business systems you have and how can we enrich them and expose them to the outside world with all the enterprise solutions around them? >>And when you talk about a process like this, which is, you know, sounds holistic, right? You're looking at, what do you have? What do you want to go? What are your, what are your business needs? You know, which all makes great sense. But then all of a sudden you start hitting speed bumps along the way. Right? Um, there are always challenges in terms of deployments are always challenges in terms of decisions and those things. So what are you hearing again from on the customer side about what are my paying points? What are my headaches here? As I know I want to make this jump. How do I get there? And I have these obstacles in my way? >>Yeah, definitely. And, and, and, and uh, the ones I explained already which are, are on the workforce site and on the customer side, you want to have the engagements there, you ought to have the interactions there and then you have that whole digital landscape which comes with some interesting challenges. And how do I implement this landscape in in the right scalable way? How do I expose my data and situate that it is secure? How do I I leverage all the capabilities from the platforms I'm using and how do I make all these moving parts, uh, consistent, compliant with the regulations I need to work towards to how do I make it secure? So, so those are definitely big enterprise challenges that compliance is security and that kind of stuff. But also technology challenges. How do I adopt those kinds of technologies? How do I make it scalable? How do I make it really and integrated solution on its own so that my platform is not only working for the digital channels we know right now, but they are also ready for the digital channels. We don't know yet. We'll start calling uh, biggest challenges after you >>get into that a little bit later too, because you raised a great point. Well, let's just jump right now. We know what the hearing now is, but you just talked about building for the future building for more expansive footprint or kinds of capabilities that frankly, we're not even aware of right now. So how do you plan for that kind of flexibility, that kind of agility when it's a bit unpredictable. >>Yeah, and, and, and that's what every organization tries to be an agile, flexible resilient. Uh, and you need to build your system conformed that and, and uh, where we normally start with, you need to have a clear foundation and and and, and and the foundation when, for example, when you are using the cloud for it, uh, every organization is cloud for it. You want to have that foundation in such a way that that those digital channels can, can connect really easy to it and that the capabilities, the business capabilities created are done by product teams. Product and feature teams are creating those kinds of capabilities on top of that cloud foundation. And in that foundation you want to put everything in place. What makes it easy for those teams to focus on that business functionality on those business capabilities? You want to make it very easy for them to do it the right thing that I always love to say that that's what you want to put in your cloud foundation, that's where you are are dishing your security. Every application was landing on the Foundation has secured. Uh, you are embracing a standard way of working, although not every devops teams like that, they want to be self organizing and that kind of stuff. But when you are having 50 or 100 devops teams, you want to have some kind of standardization and provide them away. And again, the easy way should be the right way to provide them templates, provide them technologies so that they can really focus very quickly on on those kinds of business capabilities. So, so the clerk Foundation is the base mm that needs to be in place. >>You've been doing this for a long time and, you know, the conversation used to be, you know, should we move to the cloud? You know, can we move to the cloud now? It's about how fast can we move to the cloud? How much do we move to the cloud, you know? Um So looking at that kind of the change in paradigm, if you will, what are organizations having to consider in terms of, you know, the scale, the depth, the breadth of their offering now, because innovation and as you know, it can happen in a much faster pace than it could have just, you know, a very short time ago. >>And then I'm reflecting again back to the easy things should be the rifle, that's what you want to do with your for your concept, it's and and and that's where you should focus on as an organization, for example, what we put in place and we put a lot of standardization, a lot of knowledge in place, in what we call in an inner source library. And in that inner source library, for example, we put all kinds of strips, all kinds of templates, all kinds of standardization. Four teams who either want to to deploy open shift on that platform or want to start working with certain cloud packs that they can set it up very easily conforms the standards of the organization and start moving from there. And then in the cloud foundation you have your cloud management, the IBM Club Manager because organizations are definitely going towards the hybrid scenarios. Different organizational units, wants to start using different clouds in there and and and also for the migration part. You want to have that grow from there and standardization Inner Source and having those templates ready. It's it's, it's, it's key for organizations now to, to to speed up and be ready to start joking around with red workloads on any cloud where you want to add that. That's the idea. >>Sure. So red hats involved in issue and IBM involved as well. Obviously your partnership working with them um talk about that kind of merger of resources if you will. And in terms of how what the value proposition is to your clients at the end of the day, they have that kind of firepower working on their behalf. >>Yeah, that's for example, I B M is for us, a very important partner, definitely on the hybrid multi cloud scenarios where we can leverage open shift on on on those kinds of platforms for our customers. We created what I said uh templates, scripts, we use the IBM garage project for it to create deployments for our teams in the kind of self serving way to deploy those open shift clusters on top of the cloud platform day of their choice. And then for sure with the multi cloud manager from IBM we can manage that actually in the landing zone and that's actually the whole I. D. And you want to give the flexibility and the speed uh to your devoPS teams to be able to do the right thing is the easy thing and then manage it from your cloud foundation so that they are comfortable that when they put in the work loads in that whole multi hybrid cloud platform that it is managed organized all in the right way. And that that's definitely where IBM read that over shift comes in play and and because they have already such a great tool sets ready, they really think devoPS, that's what I really like. Also with the migrations it comes with a lot of devops capabilities in they're not playing lift shift but also the modernization immediately in there. And and that's what I like about our partnership which made the IBM it says they are devops in mind also that, that's, that's cool. >>What about the speed here? Just in general? Just but almost the pace of change and what's happening in that space because it used to be like these kinds of things took forever. It seemed like and where evolutions transitions were to take a long period of time, it's not the case anymore. You know, things are happening in relatively lightning speed. Um, so when you're talking with the organization about the kinds of changes they can make and the speed at which they can do that marry those up for me and those conversations that you're having and if I'm a, you know Ceo out there and I'm thinking about how am I going to flip this switch convinced me right now, the, the key factors right? And and how, how easy, how right will this be for me? >>So as a C I. O. You want to have your, your scalable and you're flexible organization. Probably at this moment you are sitting with your thumb print system with probably a very large relational database with, with several components around there. And now you want to fuel those digital channels there at a great way with IBM with red hat is that we can deploy open shift container solutions everywhere and then starting to modernize those small components around the big relational database. We were starting to do that. We can do that really at at light speeds and then there are, we, we have a factory Modell up and running where we can put in the application landscape of a customer and look at it and say, okay, this one is quite easy, we are running it to our modernization street and it runs into a container and from there you start to to untangle actually the hairball of your whole application landscape and started to move those components and you definitely want to prioritize them. And, and that's where you have discussions with the business, which is most valuable to move first and which one to move there. And that's actually what we put in place is the factory model to analyze an application and escape off a customer having the descriptions with those customers and then say, okay, we are going to move these workloads first. Then we are going to analyze the code of these and then we are going to move these and we really start rocking fast, moving their workloads to the cloud and so that they can start enrich those digital channels you want to do that and have. >>Right, well, a great process and I love your analogies by the way you talk about hairball here, I totally get it. Clemens, Thank you for the time today. I appreciate hearing about the Cap Jim and I story and about your partnership with IBM. Thank you very much. >>Thank you very much. >>All right, so what we have learned one thing, the easy thing is the right thing and that's the Cap gemini way of getting things done. You've been watching part of the IBM think initiative here on the cube. Mhm. Yeah, Yeah.

>>from around the >>Globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM. Welcome here to the cube as we continue our series of IBM Thank on john wall's your host here on the cube for our discussion with scott. Layton who is the senior partner and global finance transformation practice at IBM scott. Thanks for joining us here on the cube. Good to see you today. >>Great to see you john, thanks for having me. >>You bet. Absolutely. Looking forward to it. Um first off, I want you just to put yourself in the CFO shoes these days, we're talking about this digital transformation and all that's occurring, particularly in finance and and what are the, I guess uh issues or the challenges you think that are kind of keeping them up at night and then we're going to transition over to how you at IBM. We're trying to solve those problems for him. But first let's let the CFO role. >>Sure, sure. Great question. And and you know, if you had asked this two years ago, we have a different answer in some ways, right? Uh Covid has has put a tremendous amount of pressure on businesses and CFOs in particular, especially when it comes to managing cash, managing logistics, supply chain has been has been pushed pretty pretty hard to its limits. I think cash has always been king, but even more so now in their preservation of cash. Um I think as well, we're now seeing in the last year to this push towards digitization, like you said, there was a long time in a lot of CFOs minds, a lot of reluctance around how fast they can move towards digitization. How how quickly they could get people working remotely or using technology better and move away from paper invoices and things like that. And what we're finding is when people didn't have a choice, it happened relatively effortlessly. And so we've now seen a much broader appetite towards digitization leveraging tools, again, in pursuit of managing cash and creating efficiencies, reducing costs. So it's the same, it's the same benefits. They've always looked at maybe a little bit more focused on cost and cash, but now the tools that they are able to use to to make that happen are are much more prevalent. They're much more open to their use. >>Yeah. So, so you're talking about making a decision voluntarily and then maybe external forces pushing you into into, you know, driving decisions. So is that kind of where we are right now, where there is, there's really no option. Uh you gotta go, you have to make this kind of move. And so you've got to answer to those external pressures. And and so this is not a voluntary mission. It's a must have in today's finance world. >>Yeah, I think so. And look, it's it's always been something that Cfos who wanted to move towards, like no CFO will tell you that they love manual processes and they want stuff on paper. But there was always this ability to defer the decision and punted a bit and and what's happened with the pandemic and changing the ways of working? It's forced that decision to happen again. I don't think it's created decision that wouldn't have happened eventually, but it's certainly accelerated it and cause them to take it quicker. >>All right. So you've conducted and just released study the CFO study where you've looked at and categorized. I think interestingly enough of three kind of stacks of Cfos ones the star side, right? Uh The other two are lagging a bit uh Tell us a little bit about that about the study and and those categories. And then we'll break down a little bit into why that one group is the star side of this equation. Kind of what they're doing and then what you're suggesting the other to do to catch up. >>Sure. Yeah. So so what we do is when we when we go and we do these surveys, we asked hundreds of cfos how they think about their business, where they put their priorities in the business and compare that to the performance of their business. And what we find is that when you look at these these different categorizations of of of cfos and organizations, you have one that clearly stands above the rest in terms of performance. And what we find is there's a direct correlation between things like the the usage of ai things like agile methodologies, lots of different kind of almost cutting edge techniques in business, but also in technology that they're using to differentiate their businesses and their again directly correlated with their performance in the market. >>So in terms of I guess the lesson learned or how another ceo CFO rather could learn from those, you know, this group that that's ahead of the game. What do you think is maybe some of the key takeaways if I was on the outside looking in or observing someone who you think is doing it better than I am or maybe has a little more vision than what you're suggesting, I have. What what should I be looking at if I'm if I realize I am in a deficit and there are people who are doing things perhaps in a more advanced state than I am, >>maybe maybe a couple of things. So one we we talked a little bit about digitization already ready, Right, leveraging technology more and more. Uh and when we talk about technology, you can think about technology in a couple different ways. You can think about this concept of a next gen er P or you can think about this technology is more of like what's called an exponential technology and our position would be that you as a as a CFO or as a business, you want to get as much of an off the shelf prp as you can and then build your exponential technology around it. So you're you're a i your machine learning, your automation set that on top of and around your E R P. Because it's inside the exponential technologies, you're going to create differentiation. So that's one thing that we're seeing is this adoption of next gen er PS an exponential tech. I think the other thing that we're seeing is a fundamental rethinking of the way that we're doing working. Uh it's agile, but it's so much more than that. We have a lot of discussions today with Cfos about agile and we make this distinction and says, listen, you can be a CFO and finance organization that practices agile or you can be an agile organization and there's a very big gap between them and what we're seeing is our best CFOs are adopting this new agile or methodology. And they're saying, we're redefining the ways that we're doing work. We're removing duplication, we're removing finance to finance the finance discussions, which is a tremendous waste, right? We're really trying to align our finance team, even though they're an internal team, we're trying to align them with value to the customer. uh so that's maybe the 2nd 1. And then, and then I'd say, you know, the third one is really focused on uh preservation of cash and using analytics to to drive a better understanding of cash and how cash flows through the business. So whether it's um improving your inventory turn whether it's improving your payment term terms, um any number of different ways to manage your cash and preserve it. And again using technology to do that. So again E. R. P. Exponential tech, agile and then leveraging tech to really drive value in the business. >>Is there can you raise a kind of an interesting point about that definition difference or deficient? Definitional difference in agility? Is there a difference in perception and reality? Then I may do some people think that you know because they're employing certain philosophies and concepts in one respect that were good across the board and and that maybe they're not. I mean is there is there a gap there? >>Yeah, there absolutely is. You'd be surprised the conversation we have you. Well, they say, well, we're, oh yeah, we're doing stand ups, were doing retrospectives, were doing mood marbles, that those are actual practices. What we're talking about is are you, are you eliminating huge amounts of part of your work because it's no longer needed and it's no longer driving value? Are you tracking uh, how agile, what kind of agile maturity your organization has and how you're driving towards a leaner, more efficient organization. There's, that's a very big difference. And yeah, we have daily meetings with our team versus this concept of being able to create an organization that is itself agile and is itself lean in align with the business. Uh, a lot of folks think by doing the former, they're accomplishing the ladder. And the true measure is productivity when you do this, step change soon. And I'll organization Big big numbers starting 40 50 in a matter of quarters, not years. It really can be significant because again, because the way you're fundamentally rethinking the way that work gets done >>well, that'll get your attention in a hurry, won't it? You're talking about those kinds of gains in those kinds of timeframes, that's significant. >>When you look at it, we're seeing the same kind of gains with agile in, let's say, a year and a half that we saw with labor arbitrage in five or 10 years, it's really changing the way where and again, you have to, you have to have an open culture to accept like that you're not going to do things or that you're maybe not going to support the business and the way you have for the last three decades. But once you have come to accept that the productivity gains and the value that you're able to create and again, we don't think about productivity in terms of reducing headcount, we think about it reinvesting. So what can finance now due to higher value add? How can they make their seat at the table bigger to better support decisions, better drive the business. This concept of of driving the top line versus controlling the bottom line is very important, >>and obviously AI has got a big role in that. Right? I mean, so let's talk about the function of A I in terms of finance and and what you see or what you're talking to your clients about in terms of how artificial intelligence can be better incorporated into their systems and processes. >>Yeah. Yeah, sure. Look with with Ai you've got a lot of different ways that you can apply it of course. But um where we see it really helping is traditionally when you look at the lower end of finance processes, you you were able to apply automation relatively well, but what you're finding is is you move up that complexity stack, you now start needing a i to give you a better opportunity to automate. It really allows you to help create the decision support. So we're seeing it in things like um being able to read contracts and use ai to suggest accounting treatment. We're seeing it and being able to um suggest best action. So when a problem is encountered in a business, any kind of business, right. It could be financed, it could be the core processes, it says, how have we dealt with this in the past? Was that successful or not? And using machine learning and ai it's suggesting maybe you should take this action and here's why. So it's it's we, you know, artificial intelligence or augmented intelligence, we prefer the latter, Right? It's this it's this technology that's designed to assist in decision making and provide you with more data and analysis and you could physically do on your own to make a better decision. >>You know what you're talking about these uh these really grand strategic transformations right, that are occurring and and and people have big decisions to make, but they're taking on big problems. So if you would just talk about some of those problems in terms of new platforms, new technologies, you know, these, you know, real life uh conundrums, sometimes people run into and and how they are dealing with that. How you're helping them deal with these big time challenges, especially like on the platform level. >>Sure, yeah, there's so many where to start. Uh you know, you look at things around uh financial forecasting and and it used to be and when you would do financial forecasting is an example, you'd have your financial analyst and they're looking at three years of history and they're trying to figure out all right, where's your revenue? The land for the court of the month, year, whatever it is, whatever period it is. And what we're finding very, very quickly is three years is irrelevant. You have to be looking at what happened last week, what happened the week before that, especially as the economy is changing so rapidly. And a I can help with that Ai can help you because what it's doing is when you when you now have to change your focus from years to weeks, you've got to start looking at different data sources to give you insight into what that means. Strange things right? Like if you're in retail, you've got to start looking at whether you've got to start looking at sentiment. We look at where uh you know previous months where lockdowns were having to help you understand whether you should be doing more business online or whether you're gonna have more in store retail as an example. So all of these different external data sources that finance people may not have traditionally been using. We're now having to incorporate because we don't have that that corpus of three years of business information is reliable. Um So financial planning is a good one. Um What else is we as we think about how to uh leverage ai audit and controls are near and dear to my heart. I used to be an audit director and do investigations, things like that. And one of the things that we always struggled with was how do we how do we leverage experience of the auditors or the investigators have gone before us. So we've implemented natural language processing and natural language search. So you can say tell me about the most significant risks that we found in china in the last two years and the Ai and machine learning is going through our database of documents and using understanding what you asked and giving the meaningful answer. It's not a google search, right? It's giving you a meaningful answer, understands what's significant is and understands the tone of the language and how it's being presented. Just a few examples around them. >>Yeah. I mean to me context is everything right And and that's where we were making this huge shift in terms of having a much greater awareness and and a sensitivity to the real context of of a data point that you're looking for. so you make a great point. Um So before we close that always like kind of like to hear about a practical application, so if you could um I don't know how comfortable you are with naming names are not naming names, but can you give us an idea of maybe how you've worked with a CFO or cfos in terms of identifying areas where they can improve or they can implement uh some of your of your advice, some of your solutions and where it's worked, you know, where they've had great success and and has inspired perhaps more success within organizations. >>Yeah, sure, sure. I think my and I won't name names but I'll give you an idea because of that. We do this a lot of different cfos but it's just I like to think of it as sizing the appetite and then serving what they want to eat. So when we when we meet with the CFO we we have a discussion with them about where their pain points are and talk about advisory and then instead of serving them this banquet meal let's start with the dishes they really like and it's really important to them. So we create this bite sized proposal and we use that because the days of 102 103 $100 million transformations, why would anybody do that anymore? You know, don't don't tell my bosses that but I like to start with you know a smaller bit right let's prove the value and then let's created self funded transformation where the value that you're creating, whether it's in working capital, whether it's you know day to day sales outstanding or an actual productivity. You create that value with a small pilot proof of concept, M. V. P. Whatever you want to call it and then you use that in a portion of those savings to then fund the next phase. And you can you can build to a very large transformation project very quickly. But again for the CFO it's critical to demonstrate value at every step of the way. So we like to do what we call um P O C M E P S, we do this through a garage, we may come together do some co creation, we might leverage one of our partnerships like Solonius to bring this fact based approach the table to help them understand where their problems are. We co create the solution with them and it's typically financed I. T. Developers all in the room building something unique and we're not talking months, we're talking in the morning, we talk about what the problem is. The developers build it in the afternoon and we show the CFO the next morning what we're thinking and what it actually looks like. And it's this concept of the days of a paper deliverable are done Because of the way that we've the society as a whole is democratized technology and made it so accessible. You can, you can listen to the requirements in the morning and build it in the afternoon. Iterate the next couple of weeks so that by the end of a 4-6 week period, you've got this incredible minimum viable product that is actually creating value for the business and then you scale it out. Uh that's the way I like to transform with CFOs. You listen, you learn, you help them build, create solve their problems in self fund transformation. >>That's for the cherry on top. That's dessert right there. You satisfied the appetite so >>all the way through. Right scott. >>Thanks for the insights. I appreciate it. And I love the analogy to it's really, really clear. I appreciate that. Thanks for the time today. >>Thanks john, appreciate it. Have a good day. You >>bet the same to you scott. Layton joining us here on IBM thing, talking about the appetite and trying to satisfy the CFO needs today, providing a little more than the appetizer but very significant. Main course. You're watching a cube and IBM thing. >>Yeah, yeah.

>>from around the globe, >>it's the cube >>With digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by >>IBM. Welcome back here on the cube, jOHn wall is your host with you as we continue our IBM think initiative. Been talking a lot about IBM s assistance in terms of what it's doing for its client base. We're gonna talk about partnerships today a little bit with Bill Patterson who is the VP and general manager of Crm applications at Salesforce, who has a really good partnership in great practice right now with IBM and Bill, thanks for the time to you looking forward to spending some time with you hear, >>thank you Jon. Thanks for having me today. >>You bet. Let's just jump right in first off, let's share with the viewers about your core responsibilities that sales for us. We're talking about Crm what your engagement is there, but if you would just kind of give us an idea of the kind of things that you're handling on a day to day basis, >>Well I am responsible for our crm applications here at Salesforce, which are our sales cloud technologies to help organizations get back to growth. Our service cloud technologies which are really helping organizations to take care of their customers through all moments of the digital lifecycle are small business solutions. So to help growing organizations thrive uh and our work dot common vaccine management solutions which are helping economies safely reopen through the crisis modes that we've all been living in. So broad range of responsibilities in my day to day is nothing like it was a year ago. >>I could only imagine, especially when you throw that last component in Covid, which hopefully will have some time to talk about just because they people are so are taken to the subject now and obviously it's impacting business on so many different levels. But let's talk first off about IBM and your partnership with them kind of the genesis of that, how that came about and maybe how you're working together, how are you integrated these days with IBM? >>Well you know one of the things that Salesforce that are key value as an organization is is to establish trust around the transformation of organizations across the world and when you think about brands that you can trust to drive transformation with IBM and Salesforce really stand apart. Uh so IBM is an incredible partner for us, on the technology side, on a service delivery side and an innovation side for us to create new solutions to help our clients really go in this from two state of how their businesses used to operate to how they need to operate in the future. Um I love working with the IBM team, we have a lot of great values that are shared across our two organizations, but most fundamentally those values are deeply rooted in customer success. And I think that that is one of the things that really draws me to working with such a great partner here. >>Yeah. Go into the process a little bit if you will. So if I'm a prospective client of yours and I come to you with some cloud needs, you know, again, whether it's uh, you know, storage or whether it's applications or whether it's edge, whatever it is, you know, I'm coming to you for um how do you then translate that to IBM and how does IBM come into play? Where does where do the boundaries kind of start and stop or do they? Is it a complete mesh? >>Yeah. Well, I think one of the things that's sort of unique about today's climate is people aren't just looking to solve technology problems. They're looking to solve business problems and what we really do, you know, at Salesforce's lead with the business transformation opportunity uh, and deeply partnered with IBM on a number of fronts to really go help those opportunities become realized. The first is in the services line. IBM has great partnerships with Salesforce around the transformation about core business processes, configuration integration services. That's one of the dimensions that we work together on. We also worked together on the areas of artificial intelligence and how we help businesses become smart in their operations every day to empower their workforce to really achieve more. And finally, you know that you mentioned about core technology oftentimes the business requirements translate into great technology transformation and that's what we do deeply with the IBM team is really outlined a blueprint and a road map for modernizing the technical infrastructure to help organizations move fast, increase their operational agility and run at such scale and safely today in the modern world that we all operate in on so through all those facets of the life cycle, IBM continues to be one of our leading partners globally to help clients, you know, not just here in the United States but around the world think about how they need to maximize their transformational abilities. >>And you touched on this at the outset of the interview, we were talking about IBM and the impact and and obviously the great association relationship that you have with them and the value in that I'd like you to amplify on that a little bit more in terms of specifically what are you getting out of it you think from a sales force perspective to have kind of the power and the weight and the bench basically that IBM provides. >>Yeah, well you think about transformation and you know, you read a lot about digital transformation online, that means so many different things to so many different businesses, businesses not just like I said here in one country, but globally the transformational needs, you really need to come with incredible bench and domain expertise by industry, by geography. Even by, you know, some micro regions in those geography has given what we've been experiencing here in the public sector in the United States with the scope of response activity we're doing with the IBM team. And so when you talk about the deep bench, what I love about working with IBM on is again commanding just great industry insights and knowledge of where industries are heading uh and also cross industry insights so that you can really bring great best practices from say one industry to another Um second is that real understanding of the global nature of business today. And I don't think the one thing that's really fasting about digital, it is not a sovereign identity today, a digital really means that you need to understand how to operate in every country, every region, every location uh you know, safely and so IBM has incredible depth and bench of experiences to help our clients truly transform those areas. Maybe another area that I really have appreciated working with IBM on is that deep technical understanding and deep technical domain of excellence, you know, maybe in the area of artificial intelligence and our partnership is quite unique between Salesforce and IBM, not only do we work together for external clients, but inside of IBM, IBM is using Salesforce today to run a lot of your core operations. And so the partnership we work with not only IBM as a kind of delivery excellence, but internally as a customer is really helping IBM transform its operations from service to sales to marketing all around the world. So I think this partnership is one that is deeply rooted in in working together and really like I mentioned before, finding the right path to drive the outcomes >>of tomorrow, you know, you mentioned Covid, um and so I would like to touch on that, but I assume that's you know, a big part of of your current relationship, if you will in service of the partnership goes, what specifically are you doing with IBM in that space of what have you done? And then what are you continuing to do as we go through now, the vaccination process and the variant identification processes and all these things. So maybe you can share with our viewers a little bit about the kinds of things that you have been working on together and the kind of progress that you've been making. >>Yeah, well back, you know, a year ago, uh you know when the world was really at a standstill, uh sales first created a solution called work dot com, which was to engineer new technologies to help businesses kind of deal with the reality of a hard shutdown to business in the say prime um private sector and in the public sector to really create new innovation around key solutions like contact tracing that you might have needed to track, you know, kind of outbreak and uh you know, the rate of progression of the virus. And what we did with the IBM team, working with uh clients around the world, first was work together to deploy those technologies rapidly into the hands of our customers through those moments of opportunity and realization. You know, working with our clients, we also started here, you know, kind of about, you know, where we find ourselves today. This mass vaccination wave of where our citizens and societies are kind of on the recovery journey. And the work that we did with IBM was to start to plan out the next wave of recovery options around vaccine management sales force, creating the core vaccine scheduling, distribution in administration management services in IBM focusing on more of that credentialing and vaccination state of how someone has gone from receiving a shot and arm to now having a trusted profile of which vaccines. When did you receive them? Are they still accurate, valid? Uh, around those solutions. So where we're working with the IBM tape most acutely on covid now is in the vaccine credential management side through Watson health. >>Mm Well, can you give us an idea now? Let's if we can dig in a little deeper on some other things you talk about? Talk about core technologies, we talked about, I mentioned Edge you know, that's when people are trying to figure out how to integrate, you know, these edge technologies into their, into their primary systems now. So, um can you give us some examples, some specific examples of some things that you're actually collaborating on today in those areas or maybe another that comes to mind? >>Yeah. Edge computing is probably one of the other more exciting things that we're doing with the IBM team. And I think you find that really working with our field service business and IBM cloud services, you know, globally speaking on the edge, you know, as devices become smarter and more digital. Um, they have a lot of signals that organizations can now tap into not only for real time intelligence, but also fault intelligence. When a device actually is starting to need repair or preventative maintenance around the solutions that kind of need to be administered and the work that we're doing to really broker this connected, not just enterprise, but connected set of experiences, but by IBM super powerful here because the IBM edge services are now helping us get into anomaly detection, those anomaly detection czar automatically routing to workers who use the sales force field service capabilities. And now we can help organizations stay running uh, you know, safely and and with continuity, which is really all our customers are asking us for. So the ability for us to be creative and understand our parts of the picture together are really the things that I think are most exciting um for what we're doing for clients around >>the world. Now, you mentioned continuity, kind of a cousin of that and a security right, in a way, because, you know, um so what are you hearing from your your customer base these days with regard to security? You know, a lot of very high profile instances, certainly from bad state actors, as we will know. But what are you hearing in terms of security that you're looking at and maybe cooperating and collaborating with IBM on to make sure that those concerns are being addressed? >>Yeah. You know, I think, well, first off security is on the top of mines, you know, for all decision makers, executives today, it's the number one threat that a lot of companies are really needing to respond to, given what we've seen, uh you know, in the geopolitical world that we're in. Um and security isn't just about securing your servers, it's also about securing every operational touch point that you might have with, you know, your um uh every end user or even every customer that's inter operating with your services that you project as an organization. And what I love about working with the IBM team as we mentioned, you know, just such great insights across all parts of technology infrastructure to really help understand both the threat level, uh how to contain that threat level, and more importantly how to engineer, you know, with great solutions all the way into the hands of customers so that becomes safe and easy for all actors in your environment to really operate with. Um And that's where, you know, again, you think about a solution like mobile sales professionals, you know, they're out traveling around the world on mobile devices, sometimes they're even brought their own personal devices into the enterprise. And so IBM is a great partner for ours just to help us understand the overall threat level of every device, every moment that an employee might have within their organizational data and really helped create great solutions to keep organizations running >>safely. Yeah, I think it's uh interesting you talk about people bringing their own devices on back when I remember that from B y O B was like a huge thing, right? And this major problem or a conundrum and now it's, it's almost like an afterthought right? You got it solved, we got it well, taken care of, >>oh, you think about again, devices in the enterprise and how much we've been able to achieve with the will be becoming commonplace in norm even today, the working place from home kind of environment that we're in, I mean, who would have thought a year ago that most of our operations conducted safely from her home office is not just our regional and corporate offices. And again, that's the kind of thing that working with IBM has been such a great value for our clients because you know, no one could have forecasted that the context center would have had to move to your kitchen last year. Uh and yet, you know, we had to really go achieve that in this time and working great partners like IBM, it became not just a conversation but real practice. >>Right by the way, I think I said, B Y O. B. I met B Y O. D. And so you know where my mind's at? Uh >>I wasn't gonna correct you. I appreciate that. It's >>Just kind of hit me. I think that just that was a 40 and slip. Certainly. >>Hey Bill, thanks for >>the time. I certainly do appreciate it. Thanks for shining light on this really good partnership between Salesforce and IBM. And we wish you continued success down the road with that as well. >>Yeah. Thanks again and again. Love being your partner and love the impact we're having together. >>Great! Thank you very much. Bill Patterson joining us, the VP working Crm at Salesforce, talking about IBM and that relationship that they're putting into practice for their client base. John Wall's reporting here on the cube. Thanks for joining us with more on IBM thing. Yeah.

>>long from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back to the Cube. We are in Las Vegas, Lisa Martin with John Wall's. I'm very excited that we're kind of color coordinated >>way. Didn't compare notes to begin with, but certainly the pink thing. It's worth it if >>you like. You complete me. >>Oh, thank you. Really, Joe, I don't hear that very often. My wife says that >>you tell that we're at the end of day one of the coverage of A W s three in bed. Good day, though. Yes, it has been very excited. We have a couple of guests joining us for our final segment on this. Please welcome. We have Bill Gerard CTO of Digital Transformation and Scale solutions at Intel Bill, welcome to our show. >>Thank you very much. Happy to be here >>And one of our friends. That's no stranger to the Cube. One of our former host, Bobby Allyn, the CEO of Cloud Generate. Bobby. >>Thank you. Thank you for having us. >>Guys, here we are. This there has not been a lull in the background noise all day. Not reinvent day one. But Bobby want to start with you. Talk to her audience about cloud genera. Who are you guys? What do you do? And what's different about what you're delivering? >>One of the first things is different about Claude Generous where we're located. So we're in Charlotte, which I call Silicon South. So we're kind of representing the East Coast, and we're a company that focuses, focuses on helping with workload, placement and transformation. So where you don't know whether something should go on from off grim. If you put it in Amazon, which service's should have consumed licensing models? Pricing models way help you make data driven decisions, right? So you're not just going based on opinion, you're going based on fact. >>And that's challenging because, you know, in the as, as John Ferrier would say, No Cloud Wanda Otto, which was compute network storage, it was the easy I shouldn't say easy, but the lift and shit applications that enterprises do are these workloads should go to the cloud. Now we have you know what's left over, and that's challenging for organization. Some of the legacy once can't move. How do you help from a Consul Tatum's down point that customers evaluate workloads? What data are they running? What the value that data has and if they are able to move some of those more challenging applications. >>So part of the framework for us, Lisa, is we want to make sure we understand what people are willing and able to change right, because sometimes it's not just about lower costs. Sometimes it's about agility, flexibility, deploying a different region. So what we often start with his wit is better look like you would assist us with life for your organization. And so then, based on that, we analyze the applications with an objective, data driven framework and then make sure the apse land where they're supposed to go. We're not selling any skewer product. We're selling advice to give you inside about what you should do, >>Bobby, I think. And maybe Bill to you could chime in here on this. If you give people a choice, What does this look like? What you know, What do you want? I don't want to do anything right. I want to stay put, right? But that obviously that's not an option, But you I'm sure you do get pushed back quite a bit from these almost the legacy mindset. And we've talked a lot about this whole transformation versus transition. Some people don't want to go, period. So how do you cajole them? Persuade them bring them along on this journey? Because it's gonna be a long trip. Yeah, I think you gotta pack a lunch. >>It's a good point. I think what we've seen, most of them have data experience that this is a tried and elements didn't get the results that they expected. This is where you know, the partnership that we have with call General. Really? You know that data driven, intelligent, based planning is super important, right? We want to really fundamentally health organizations move the right workloads, make sure they get the right results and not have to redo it. Right? And so part of that, you know, move when you're either past scars or not used to what you're doing. Give him the data and the information to be able to do that intelligently and make that as fast as they can. And you know, at the right, you know, experience in performance from a capability perspective. >>So so many businesses these days, if they're not legacy if they're not looking in the rear view mirror, what is the side mirror site? Objects are closer than they appear, even for Amazon. Right? For all of these companies, there are smaller organizations that might be born in a cloud compared to the legacy two words. And if they're not looking at, we have to transform from the top down digitally, truly transform. Their business may not be here in a year or two, so the choice and I think they need to pack a lunch and a hip flask for this because it's quite the journey. But I'm curious with the opportunity that cloud provides. When you have these consultation conversations, what are This? Could be so transformative not just to a business, but to a do an entire industry. Bill talked to us from your perspective about some of the things that you've seen and how this next generation of cloud with a I machine learning, for example, can can really transfer like what's the next industry that you think is prime to be really flipped upside down? >>Well, the good news is I think most of the industries in the segment that we talked to have realized they need to some level of transformation. So doing the business as usual really isn't an option to really grow and drive in the future. But I do think the next evolution really does center on what's happening in a I and analytics. Whether it's, you know, moving manufacturing from video based defect detection, supply chain integrity. You know what's happening from a retail was really the first in that evolution, but we see it in health care in Federal Data Center modernization, and it's really moving at a faster pace and adopting those cloud technologies wherever they needed, both in their data center in the public, cloud out of the edge. And we'll start to see a real shift from really consolidation in tow. Large hyper converts, data centers to distributed computing where everything again. And that's where we're excited about the work we're doing with the Amazon, the work we're doing with Eyes V partners to be at the capability where they need it, but I think it will be really the next. Evolution of service is everywhere. >>Never talk us through an example or use case of a customer that you're working with, a cloud genera with intel and and a W S. What does that trifecta look like for, say, a retailer or financial service is organization >>so that that looks like this? ELISA. When we when we talk about workload placement, we think that most companies look at that as a single question. It's at least a five fold question. Right there is the venue. There's the service. There's the configuration, the licensing model and the pricing model. You need to look at all five of those things. So even if you decided on a DBS is your strategic partner, we're not done yet. So we have a very large financialservices customer that I can't name publicly. But we've collaborated with them to analyze tens of thousands of workloads, some that go best off from some that go best on for him. And they need guidance and coaching on things like, Are you paying for redhead twice your pay for licensing on him? Are you also paying for that in the cloud? There are things that maybe should be running an RT s database as a service. Here's your opportunity to cut down on labor and shift some of the relationships tohave, toe re index and databases is not glamorous or differential to value for your business. Let's take advantage of what a TBS does well and make this better for your company. One of the things that I want to kind of introduce to piggyback on your question. We lean on people process technology as kind of the three, the three legged horse in the Enterprise. I want to change that people process product or people process problem. We're falling in love with the tech and getting lazy. Technology should be almost ubiquitous or under the covers to make a product better or to solve a problem for the customer. >>Well, maybe on that, I mean automation concern to come in and make a big play here because we're taking all these new tasks if you could automate them that you free your people, your developers to do their thing right. So you raise an interesting point on that about being lazy and relying on things. But yet you do want off put our offload some of these nasty not to free up that creativity and free up the people to do what they're supposed to be doing. It's a delicate balance, though, isn't it? It is. It is. This >>is where I think the data driven, you know, informed decisions important. We did a lot of research with Cloud Jenner and our customers, and there's really four key technical characteristics when evaluating workload. The 1st 1 of course, is the size of the data. Where is the created words They use Words that consumed the 2nd 1? Is the performance right? Either performance not only to other systems around it or the end user, but the performance of the infrastructure. What do you need out of the capability? The level of integration with other systems? And then, of course, security. We hear that time and again, right? Regulatory needs. What are we having from top secret data to company sensitive data? Really Getting that type of information to drive those workload placement decision becomes at the forefront of that on getting, you know, using cloud gender to help understand the number of interfaces in and out the sides of the data. The performance utilization of the system's really helps customers understand how to move the right workload. What's involved and then how to put that in the right eight of us instance, and use the right ideas capabilities, >>and you and you both have hit on something here because the complexity of this decision, because it's multi dimensional, you talked about the five points a little bit ago. Now you talked about four other factors. Sue, this is not a static environment, No, and to me that as you're making a decision, that point is what's very difficult for, I would assume for the people that you're interfacing with on the company level. Yes, because it's a moving target for them, right? They just it's it's dynamic and changing your data flows exponentially. Increasing capabilities are changing. How do you keep them from just breaking down? >>I don't want to jump in on that, because again, I'm going to repeat this again. That my thesis is often technology is the easy part. We need to have conversations about what we want to do. And so I had a conversation earlier today. Think of Amazon like a chef. They could make anything I want, but I need to decide what I want to eat. If I'm a vegan and he wants steak. That's not Amazons fault. If they can't cook something, that's a mismatch of a bad conversation. We need to communicate. So what I'm finding is a lot of executives are worried about this. There were Then you're going to give me the right the wrong answer to the right question. The reality is you may have the wrong question. First of all right, the question is usually further upstream, so the worry that you're gonna give me the wrong answer to the right question. But often you need to worry that you're getting your starting with the wrong question. You're gonna get the right answer asked the right question first. And then you got a chance to get to the final destination. But >>and then he in this multi cloud world that many organizations live in, mostly not My strategy could be by Emma A could be bi developer preference for different solutions. A lot of Serios air telling us we've inherited a lot of this multi cloud and technical debt. Exactly. So does not just compound the problem because to your point, I mean you think of one way we hear so many different stats about the number of clouds that on average enterprises using is like 5 to 9. That whole world. That's a reality for organizations. So in terms of how the business can be transformed by what you guys are doing together, it seems like there's a tremendous opportunity there. But to your point, Bobby, where do you start? How do you help them understand what? That right first question is at the executive level so that those four technical points that Bill talked about Tek thee you know, the executive staff is all on board with Yes, this is the question we're asking then will understand it. The technology is right. Sold >>it. It's got to start with, Really? What? The company's business imperatives, right? It can't start with an I t objective. It's it's Are we moving into new markets? Do we need thio deploy capabilities faster? Are we doing a digital customer experience? Transformation? Are we deploying new factories, new products into new regions, and so really the first areas? What's the core company strategy, imperatives of the business objectives? And >>then how >>does I t really help them achieve that? In some cases, it may be we have to shift and reduce our data center footprints way have to move capabilities to where we have a new region. Deployments, right? We've got to get him over to Europe. We don't have capabilities in Europe. We're going to Asia. I've got a mobile sales force now where I need to get that customer, meet the customer where they're doing, you know, in the retail store, and >>that >>really then leads quite simply, too. What are the capabilities that we have in house that we're using? >>How are >>they being utilized? And he's using them, and then how do we get them to where they need to be? Some cases accost, imperative. Some cases and agility, Time to market and another's and we're seeing this more often is really what are the new sets of technologies? A. I service is training in forgetting that we're not experience to do and set up, and we don't want to spend the time to go train our infrastructure teams on the technology. So we'll put our data scientists in there figuring out the right set of workloads, the right set of technology, that we can then transform and move our applications to utilize it really starts, I think with the business conversation, or what's the key inflection point that they're experiencing? >>And have you seen that change in the last few years that now it's where you know, cloud not cloud. What goes on Cloud was an I t conversation to your point, Bill. And then the CEO got involved in a little bit later. But now we're we're seeing and hearing the CEO has got to be involved from a business imperative perspective. >>Share some data, right? Uh, so, you know, a couple of years ago, everybody was pursuing cloud largely for cost. Agility started to become primary, and that's still very important. A lot of the internal enterprise data modernizations were essentially stalled a bit because they were trying to figure how much do we move to the the public cloud, right. We want to take advantage of those modern service is at that time, we did a lot of research with our partners. He was roughly 56% of enterprise workload for in their own data center. You know, the rest of them Republic Cloud. And then we saw really the work, the intelligent workload discussion that says we've had some false starts. Organizations now really consistently realize they need both, you know, their own infrastructure and public cloud, and we've actually seen on increase of infrastructure modernization. While they're moving more and more stuff to the cloud, they're actually growing there on centre. It's now roughly 59% on Prem today for that same business, and that's largely because they're using more. Cloud service is that they're also even using Maur on premise, and they're realizing it's a balance and not stalling one or starving one and then committing to the other the committing to both and really just growing the business where it needs to go. >>Strategic reasons. All right? >>Yes, well, there should be four strategic reasons. There aren't always back to your question about which question asked. One of the questions I often ask is, What do you think the benefits will be if you go to cloud? And part of what happens is is not a cloud capability? Problem is an expectation problem. You're not gonna put your GOP system in the cloud and dropped 30% costs in a month, and so that's where we need to have a conversation on, You know, let's iterating on what this is actually gonna look like. Let's evolve the organization. Let's change our thinking. And then the other part of this and this were clouded or an intel come in. Let's model with simulation looks like. So we're gonna take those legacy work clothes unless model containers. Let's model Micro Service is so before you have to invest in transformation to may not make sense. Let's see what the outcome's look like through simulation through a through M l and understand. Where does it make sense to apply? The resource is, you know, to double click on that solution that will help the business. >>I was gonna finish my last question, Bobby, with you saying, Why, Cloud General? But I think you just answered that. So last question for you, though, from from an expectation perspective, give me one of your favorite examples of customer whatever kind of industry there and that you've come in and helped them really level, set their expectations and kick that door wide open. >>That's tough, many >>to choose from. >>Yeah, let me let me try to tackle that one quickly. Store's computer databases. Those are all things that people look at I think what people are struggling with the most in terms of kind of expectations is what they're willing and able to change. So this is kind of what I leave on. Bill and I talked about this earlier today. A product is good, a plan is better. A partnership is best. Because with the enterprises of saying is, we're overwhelmed. Either fix it for me or get in there with me and do it right. Be in this together. So what we've learned is it's not about were close applications. It's all kind of the same. We need help. We're overwhelmed. I want a partner in telling Claude Juncker the get in this thing with me. Help me figure this out because I told you this cloud is at best a teenager. They just learned how to drive is very capable, but it needs some guard rails. >>I love that. Thanks you guys So much for explaining with Johnny what you guys are doing together and how you're really flipping the model for what customers need to be evaluated and what they need to be asking. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you for having us >>our pleasure. Thank you. for John Wall's I'm Lisa Martin. You've been watching the Cube at Reinvent 19 from Vegas. Wants to go tomorrow.

la from Las Vegas it's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Vinum care along with its ecosystem partners Oh welcome back to the sands here we are live here in Las Vegas along with Justin Warren I'm John wall's you're watching the Cuban our coverage here of AWS rain vut 2019 day one off in Rowan and EJ on the keynote stage this morning for a couple of hours and now a jam-packed show for Chris Wright joins us the CTO and Red Hat waking his way toward Cube Hall of Fame status we're getting there this is probably worth 50 of the parents I think good to see you good to see you yeah always a pleasure first off let's just let's just talk about kind of the broad landscape right now the pace of innovation that's going on what's happening in the open cloud you know catching up to that acceleration if you're if you're a legacy enterprise you know you got all these guys that are born over here and they're moving at warp speed you got to be you've got to play catch-up and and talk about maybe that friction if you will and and what people are learning about that in terms of trying to get caught up to the folks that have two head start well I think number one the way I like to frame it is open source is the source of innovation for the industry and part of that is you look at the collaborative model bringing different people together across industry to build technology together it's hard to compete with that pace and speed the challenge of course is as you describe how do you how do you consume that how do you bring it into the enterprise which is you know got a whole business that's running off of infrastructure that has been sustaining their business for potentially decades so there's that impedance mismatch of needing to go quickly to keep abreast of of the technology changes while honoring the fact that your core business is running already on key technology so I think looking at how you bring platforms in that support the newer technologies as well as create connections or even support existing applications is a great way to kind of bridge that gap and then partnering with people who can build a bridge like an impedance match between your speed and the speed of innovation is a great way to kind of you know harness the power without exposing yourself to the ragged edges as much sure yeah talk to us a bit more about it about enterprise experience with open source a Red Hat has a long heritage of providing open source to enterprise and couldn't pretty much sits out as a unique example of how you make money with open source so enterprises have lots of open source that they're using every day now you know Linux has come into the enterprise left right and center but there's a lot more open source technologies that enterprises are using today so give us a bit of a flavor of how enterprises are coming to grips with how open source helps sustain their business well in one sense it's that innovation engine so it's bringing new technology and in another sense it's what we've experienced in the in the Linux space is post driving a kind of commoditization of infrastructure so switching away from the traditional vertically integrated stack of a RISC UNIX environment to providing choice so you have a common platform that you can target all your applications do that creates independence from the underlying hardware that's that's something that provide a real value to the enterprise that notion continues to play out today as infrastructure changes it's not just hardware it's virtualized data centers it's public clouds how do you create that consistency for developers to target their applications too as well as the operation seems to manage well you know it's through leveraging open source and bringing a common platform in into your environment as you go up the stack I think you get more and more proliferation of ideas and choices from developer tools and modules and dependencies you know most software stacks today have some open source even included inside whether you're building exclusively on top of a platform that's open source based you're probably also including open source into your application so it's a whole variety from building your key infrastructure to supporting your your enterprise applications and you mentioned openness which y'all know is a big very important thing to Red Hat and one thing that red has been speaking of lately is open hybrid cloud so maybe you can explain that to us what what he is open hybrid cloud what does red head mean by that sure so open hybrid cloud for us start with open that's our platforms are built from open source project so we work across like literally thousands of open source projects bring those together into products that build our platform also we create an open ecosystem so you know we're really fostering partnerships and collaboration at every level from the developer level up through our commercial partnerships the hybrid piece is talking about where you deploy this infrastructure inside your data center on bare metal servers inside your data center virtualized in a private cloud across multiple public clouds and increasingly out to the edge so that that notion of what is the data center - to me it really encompasses all those different footprints so the hybrid cloud cloud meaning give a cloud like experience from an Operations point of view simple to operate meaning you know we're doing everything we can to help operators manage that infrastructure from a developer point of view surface scene functionality as services Nate the eyes and you know how do you give a self-service environment to developers like you know like a cloud so it's across all that first you talk about data in the edge which you know the fact that there's so much the computing that's going on out there and staying closer to the source right we're not bringing it back in you're leaving it out there that adds a whole new level of complexity - I would think and scale you know massive amounts what everything is happening out there so what are you seeing in that in that in terms of handling that complexity and addressing challenges that you see coming as this growth is tremendous growth continues well one it's how do you manage all of that infrastructure so I think having some consistency is a great way to manage that so using the same platform across all of those different environments including the edge that's really going to give you a direct benefit to targeting your applications to that same common platform having the ability to recognize some dependencies so maybe you have a dependency on a data set and that data sets supplied from sources that are in an edge location we can codify that and then enable developers to build applications you know do test dev Prada cross a variety of environments pushing all the way out to an edge deployment where you know thinking you're taking in a lot of data you may be building models in a scale out environment internally in your private cloud or out in the public cloud taking those models deploying those to the edge for inference in real time to make real-time decisions based on data flows through the system and that's that's the world that we live in today so managing that complexity is critical automation for managing that consistency common platforms I think are key tools that we can use to to help build up that that rich in person just from an industry perspective so who does who's that applied to in your mind right what kind of industry is looking at this and saying all right this is this is a an opportunity but also a challenge for us and something we really need to address what's the array there do you think honestly I see it across almost all market verticals so we look at the world or a platform centric view from from a RedHat perspective so we look at the world across industries what I find interesting in the edge use cases is they tend to get more vertically specific so in a manufacturing case you know maybe you're dealing with a manufacturing line which is a set of applications and a set of devices which looks quite different from a retail office or branch office environment some similar problems but very different environments and then you take the service providers networks the telco network out of the edge and that looks quite different from a manufacturing floor so you know it's a it's a wide variety of vertically oriented solutions drawing from some common platform technologies containers Linux you know how do you do automation across all of those environments that machine learning tools those are the things that I think are consistent but you get all a lot of very vertically focused use cases yeah I'm now in the canine today that that Andy was mentioning that they love open source and when we're here at Amazon and and he likes to talk about the compatibility that and customer choice is also very important to Amazon's wit tell us a little bit about how openness interacts with somewhere like ADA we're actually we're here at reinvent which is an ADA where show so how does Red Hat and AWS work together how do you coexist in this ecosystem and get the benefits of open source technologies we could exist in a number of different ways one would be as engineers working together in open source communities building technology another is we have commercial partnerships so we run our platforms on top of AWS so we bring customers to AWS which is a shared you know we have a shared benefit there and then there's also areas where we have competitive offerings so it's you know it's a full spectrum kind of the modern world of the buzzword co-op petitioner or whatever you know it I really think when you look in the open source communities engineers thrive on building great technologies together independent of any kind of corporate boundaries commercially people develop relationships that are complicated today and we have a great working relationship we've run a lot of our cloud customers on Amazon but again there's there's areas where we're both invested in kubernetes ours is openshift there's a zk s so customers have a choice in that context yeah sorry is that in that context that there are some in the open-source community who view cloud as possibly a bit of a villain and certain things we've seen some some dynamics around some particular providers around the debt the database face I went I went name 50 particular players but we've seen some competitive moves in in that place so do you see cloud is it the villain or is it an enabler of open-source technologies well it's definitely an enabler now there's a complicated scenario and this like is it a villain which is how do we create sustainable communities and in the context where a technology is developed largely by one vendor and it's monetized largely by another vendor it's not going to be a very sustainable model so we just have to focus on how are we building technology together and building it in a sustainable way and part of that is making the contributions back into the community to help the project's themselves grow and thrive part of it is having a great diversity of contributors into the into the project and recognizing that business models change and you know the world evolves yeah that doesn't introduce an element of risk it's been around for a while that enterprise are a little bit concerned about open source oh well who's really behind this will this project or software still be here in six months that seems to be decreasing as as the commercial support for particular open source projects and initiatives come to me and we see the rise of foundations and so on that try to give a little bit of an underpinning to some of these projects particularly ones that are critical for the supportive of enterprise technologies do you see enterprises maturing in their view of open source do they do they see it as no no that we understand that this is definitely a sustainable technology whereas these other ones like yeah that one's not quite there yet or do they still need a lot of assistance in making that kind of decision I've been at it for a couple of decades so in the beginning there was a lot of evangelism that this is safe it's consumable by the enterprise it's not some kind of crazy idea to bring open-source you're not gonna lose your intellectual property or things like that those days I mean I'm sure you could find an exception but those days are largely over in this in the sense that open source has gone mainstream so I would say open source is one most large enterprises have an open-source strategy they consider open source as critical to not only how they source software from vendors but also how they build their own applications so the world has really really evolved and now it's really a question of where are you partnering with vendors to build infrastructure that's critical to your business but not your differentiator and where are you leveraging open source internally for your to differentiate your business I think that's a more sophisticated view it's not the safety question it's not is it is it legally you know that you're bringing legal concerns into the picture it's really a much different conversation and people in the enterprise are looking how can we contribute to these projects so that's really it's pretty exciting actually so so what do you think it is then in the maturation process then as it did is it in the adolescent years is it growing into young adulthood you said you've been at it for a long time and it's more acceptable but where are we you think on that in that arc you know what in terms of adapting or or adopting if you will that philosophy probably depends on where you are in the layer of the stack and so the lower you get into the infrastructure the more commonplace it is the closer you get to differentiated value and something that's really unique there's less reason to even build those applications as open source if it's only you consuming it you know pretty pretty broad spectrum there I think that in general we're in some level of adulthood it's a very mature world in the open-source communities and what's interesting today is how we change business models around deploying and consuming open source technologies and then a next generation of technology will be very data-centric data drives a whole set of questions there's policy and governance around data placement there's model training and model exchanging and where models come from data or the models open source is the data shareable you know that it sets a whole new wave of questions that I think in that context it's much earlier so that's our next interview by the way with Chris next time down the road thanks for the time as always really good to see you and I know you're you're awfully busy this week so we really do appreciate you carving out a little slice of time glad to do face press yeah thank this right over Red Hat CTO back with Justin and John live on the cube here at AWS reinvent 2019

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum, World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back inside the Moscow The Center. We're here, Mosconi North, Wrapping up our coverage here. Veum World 2019 Glad to have you with us here on the Cuba's. We continue our 10th year of 10th consecutive year of coverage here of the events to minimum, along with John Wall's joined now by Robin's Lee, who was director of data protection, product marketing and L E M C Rob. Good to see you, sir. >> Hey, Joan. >> So you almost want to walk to the first person I saw when I walked in the room the other day? >> You. And >> now you won't be one of the last on effort to tell Shy, Who is the director of Data protection and Cloud native APS. Adele AMC Effort. Good to see you, sir. Good to see you. Yeah, First off, let's just let's just talk about the world of data protection in general here by sucking multi and hybrid and all these things. Your world's changing a little bit, right? Because of these new environments in these new opportunities. So if you could just paint that 30,000 foot picture first off thematically, how how your world is evolving. >> Yeah. I mean, I think the key would indebted protection is data, you know, and I think that wherever it is created, and wherever it is managed, customers need to look after it. You know this? The old adage that there's only two things that customers worry about one is their employees, and two, is there data. So as we've seen the adoption of of Cloud is a A zone infrastructure model on you're starting to see many customers extend their own premises infrastructure to the cloud on using the cloud for production level applications. They realize that on often they're told, you gotta do something about your data. So that's led to all vendors and especially ourselves over the last several years, really expanding the portfolio and the capabilities that we have from a non premises centric environment to the multi class. >> Yeah, so every ah, a lot of discussion about kubernetes. Before we get into that, you've got cloud native in your title, and Rob talked about data and talk about the applications I'm hoping you can bring us inside is to you know, what's different when we're talking about cloud native applications that from a data protection standpoint, you know, what do you have to think about differently? Is it the micro Service's architecture in containers Fundamentally changed the way things are done, is it, You know, similar what we've done in the past? >> Definitely. We see customers. Some customers are taking what they head back now and they move it in tow. Cloud native infrastructures. A lot of customers are building new applications and new workloads, and they build it on top off new applications. So they basically building a whole new set off applications and infrastructure and want to combine in together and they come to us on Dad, ask us, How do I protect this? And these things spin up, spin down, move around. They have very different life cycle than the traditional applications. >> Okay, Yeah, it's funny. You know, Rob, I think back to you know, it's like tape. You know how we dealt this because of the environment versus disc versus, you know, containerized application. Buoyed by the time I want to set something up isn't that gone and things move around all over the place. It's You gotta put a different different types of environments than you need to span. All of these >> I was chatting with with every earlier, and we were talking about what? What's what's changed, kind of in the last couple of years around the deployment and usage of of kubernetes, the deployment of containers. And after he was saying that one of the most fundamental changes is the introduction of persistent volumes on a Sooners. Persistency comes into the mix. You know, that's where things start to change. And, you know, Jeffrey's phone started ringing with respect to hate. What are you doing to bring dead protection into you know, this environment? >> I think two years ago, everything was Toby stateless on then suddenly, people understand that's not enough. You need to add states some states to existing applications. And then the notion of persistent volumes came along and then customers and developers so that it's actually working quite nicely. And they started relying more and more on moving more state in tow, their applications running on containers, environments. So the first thing that customers ask us about is where I store my data. Where's the primary volume that is done by our storage folks? The next question is, how do I protect my data? And this is where we come into the picture. And we offer an architecture that is built for containers environment and takes care off that life cycle that we talked about before. Containers are coming and going. You need to protect the data and the containers, the data and the meta data together in order to bring that protection level of customers. Looks from, >> you know, as as the concerns about data protection have been elevated now and sea sweet discussions now, um has that created a different approach, or maybe a change of tone or tenor from your clients to you, because the discussions are being elevated in their own businesses. And and so there's Is there a different kind of attention being paid to this or different kinds of concerns that maybe 34 years ago? Yeah, >> I mean, it's interesting. I mean, one of things we were on every couple of years is a ah, global study. We called it the Global Day Protection Index. This year, we we interviewed 2200 i t. Decision makers and we kind of asked them about you know, how how are they value in dead protection and also how the valuing data and the one thing that has definitely changed is that the value of data to them has become Maur critically important. I think it's always been important, but I think you know, if they start thinking about data is capital, you know they are starting to realize that it's only capital if you've got it. If you don't have it, it's It's nothing Thio >> and it's only yours if you have it. Well, yeah, and nobody else. Absolutely. Right here. >> Every kubernetes courses open source and everybody's got what they're what they're doing in it. You've got announcement, some work you're doing with VM, where it's open source. Also bring us inside a little bit. Valero, how did we get to this point? You know this, you know, part of the C n c f. Yet it kind of being submitted, or how does that fit into the whole community? >> Yeah, sure. So, as you said and we talked about earlier this week with Beth and people at the protection announcements We are working with collaboration with Valero now part off Veum, where in orderto being that data protection solution So Valero is an open source projects. It's out there in the open. You have thousands off stars get up. Stars are very popular among the Dev Ops community about communities users you can hear about it from customers that are looking for for solutions. There is very good at backing up cluster containers and applications. And we have a lot of experience in enterprise data protection making sure that you have a solution that, um, has compliance reporting. You contract your data, you can define policies scheduling all of that eso we are combining these two and collaborating with Valero in orderto have a solution that answers. Boston is off the back of that mean and they just want to go home knowing that the production environment is protected, the and the develops people in the communities administrators and they just want toe, get the volume and forget about the protection. Everybody can work in their environment with the tools that they know with permissions that they want, and they can both work together and be happy. And the companies that we work with are the ones that have good relationship between the devil steam and the backup administrators. And they see that the same table and talk to us, and everybody tells us what they want and what they need. As a result, we build a solution so that we'll be able to answer the needs of both of them. >> So do you have to build sometimes those relationships within a company to get them to talk or collaborate in a more conducive environment cause you see all kinds, right? I mean, you see, the full range just talked by then a free that some very successful, some very constructive, maybe some that that aren't on the same page agent. So that's almost part of your responsibility. Coming before you even get to where you could talk about the work, we've got to talk about the collaboration. Yeah, that they're not area >> we really come When there is a story, people try to move their applications to production. The developers are really already working on something, and now the developers want volumes on the I T ops people. Tell them No, no, no. If you can't protect it. According to our rules. We will not pass the audience. We can do that for you, and that creates the friction inside those teams in the organization that we talked with. There is recognition off that already and now they come together to the table and they want to hear something that would they would be able to work with us both on the management on the I T ops and and management on cube control and what develops people are using. >> And it's it's large companies that are coming in talking to us. And I think, you know, when you get a large companies, quite often you have some more of these things different fiefdoms of, of, of users inside. But because they're large companies, they have, you know, certain requirements from regulations and compliance is perspective. So they have those concerns, but and every has been saying is we look at the early design partners, customers that were looking to work with, you know, the big the big companies coming to us. >> Rob, can you just help us understand? We talked about Valero there says some open, soft, soft, soft words. That's the power tech. Just sit on top of that >> s Oh, it's a great question. So, you know, as you know, we introduced power protects after exile technologies world. It started shipping to customers at the end of July. And Coop, in any support, is really the first example of what we said that we were going to be able to do, which is more rapidly bring new workload to new capabilities into our power, protect softer offering than we've ever been able to do before. You know, we're really embarking on a quarterly release cadence, you know, which will allow us to, you know, to do things that, you know in our existing portfolio are released cadences. What's being measured in in many, many months and quite often is long as a year and beyond. So what we will do is the tech preview that we that we announced this week. You know, we will roll that out in a nup coming release in production on that will become available to any of the parent protect software users. So right within the power protect software match me interface. You know that has the VMS support Oracle sequel in file systems. We'll add the additional workload support have been able to protect kubernetes using the same workloads, the abilities to create protection policies and I'm interested every is is with protection policies. Because that she was saying about how the environment can change quite rapidly is that by using a policy, you don't need to watch for those changes as changes happen, the policy. We'll keep track of what it needs to do as far as protecting the new applications as they come up and have to go away. >> What happens is the ones we find. The policies are the arty operations in the back apartments. They want to comply with the rules that they have, and they define the gold, silver, bronze policies, whatever have you and then they can give it to the Cuban, said Means. And, the criminalist admits, can say OK, these are my volumes. These are more applications I will just use keep control and potatoes objects We will discover that will automatically create a schedule that would create that that backup. So in essence, the community suddenly doesn't need really need to care about the compliance rules they need to care about policies and the Becca pod mean can take care of other wrist >> and the applications of driving the policies and not not the other way around. >> Yeah, I mean, the creepiest ad means are used to defining policies in terms of five day provisions, their storage, for example. We want to do the same in the data protection area. >> So as far as things like retention periods, as far as whether or not the data needs to be replicated, where not the data needs to be a tear to the cloud that those are all things that the I T admin team can do on it sort of separates kind of orchestration and governance is, is a big part of perfect ex often >> love to get your viewpoint on is data protection historically was not one of the faster moving things in the I T. Realm Last two or three years at VM World, it's been one of the hottest topic, I said. You know, the keynote on Monday felt like we were kubernetes world. Not quite Cube con just yet, because there's a lot of projects there, but I walked down to the the show floor. It's not storage world like Thursday. Its data protection world is Cygnus lots of glowing parties of people so that customers, you know, the embracing change. And what does that mean for your portfolio? >> Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, I think over the years, if you think about where you go if you want to learn about data protection, VM world is probably one of the best shows to go to because >> we're >> all here. I mean, I mean, you know when you know, you know, I've you know, I've been crazy enough to be in the debt protection business for almost 15 years now. Um, and it hasn't changed. If you if you want to talk to data protection vendors than VM World, is a really good show to go to. You know, I think that that for us, you know what I am. Where has done is It's It's It's It's It's provoked provided a common foundation, you know, And that's also providing a common foundation to get us from on premises into the multi cloud environment. So once she developed, um uh, great data protection solutions in the van, where environment is that you're your target market becomes quite broad because, you know, there's so much VM were virtual ization out there in the market, but you're absolutely correct. Is that you on the show floor? And it's It's It's an interesting sight >> thinking. In addition to that, you also have obviously been at this in the show, and I think what we have seen over the last couple of years is that customers were coming tow us, asking for solutions. And this is why we were able, with the power, protect architecture and platform to innovate more quickly and respond to those faster changing trends. Because now you have persistency of volumes. Now you have protection. The M were acquired. Help tell, you know, we could work together on creating the solution. >> Yeah, absolutely. Have we've been at the Cube contract for number years. Help Theo. Of course, the president's last year VM were had a bigger presence, but that maturation of the storage component with something we knew would take time. You know, we watched it in the virtual ization world. Those of us that lived through that, you know, 10 to 15 years ago and container ization. It's starting to reach that maturity, and we're getting that inflection point >> if you also want to think about the announcement that path made on the keynote on Monday where he said we're goingto work much more with park protects, toe address, spot data protection capabilities. This is one of the things we're collaborating With the help to your team, we're contributing to the open source. We're building together things that can move in the pace off communities and address the needs off our more legacy. Companies that needed protection with complaints. >> So, Rob, that will keep you in business for another 15 years? >> I hope >> so, gentlemen. Thanks for the time. Thank you. Appreciate that. Especially on your birthday. Right? Tomorrow. Tomorrow, Right here. Tomorrow. Your birthday home for that Happy early birthday. >> Thank you very much. >> We should have a cute cake, but should especially >> the end of the day. >> I know, I know. I'll end of the day. We got something better than a cake. Gentlemen. Thank you again. Thanks. We'll be back in a little bit. Streaming content. Continuing coverage here. Avian World 2019 with some final thoughts from our panelists. Just a little bit. See on the other side for that

>> live from San Francisco celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to San Francisco. We continue our coverage here. Live on the Cube. 10th year John of covering Veum World This is 29 teens version John for John Wall's Got to have inside the Moscone Center. We're joined now by Varun Chabrol It was the vice president of marketing at Delhi M. C. Good to see you today. >> Thanks for having me. >> How's your week been? So far? >> It's been amazing. How can you don't get excited? All the innovation we're seeing this week >> we'll hear about some big announcements. Do you guys have made? And Moon Young Man Azzedine, who is the vice president of product marketing that for cloud security and works based solutions at Veum wear when you're good to see you. >> Good to see you again. You, By >> the way, you might be the busiest guy here. Yesterday, when you came into the set, you were coming in. Just spoken to 1300 people in a standing room only session You coming out? 500 folks, How many sessions have you done? The seven. So >> you don't count the the one on one with the analyst. And, uh, you know, the customers and partners and press. And tomorrow actually host ah 140 press media analyst on campus in Palo Alto from Asia Pacific because they float all the way from Asia >> plus 140. Yeah, it's a piece of cake. >> Yeah, hose them from 10 to 4. So, I mean, >> you're always smiling >> knowing that this is a pretty wide audience to whom you've been speaking. But just generally, what are you if there's a common thread at all about the kinds of questions that people are coming to you with, or or the concerns or maybe just the things they want to talk about being inspired. But what they're hearing here at the show, >> Okay. Now, according to two aspects of it, one obviously from analysts themselves, you know, they are actually have been very complimentary about the way we've taken our approach. I'm not sure if you could have paid attention. In the last couple of years, we've been talking especially the cloud side, the narrative, to be very much about use cases, solving problems. You know the key? No, we talked about hate my grade modernize. It wasn't about Hey, I've got the next big product here with all these features and capabilities. You do this and that. So we're gonna shifted out narrative. And it was very, you know, the the analyst across the boat. You know, we've been seeing an appreciative of the fact that you actually changing a narrative to be re compelling and we're gonna reflected. And we have some things here like Cloud City, where it's not a standard demo boot. It's a it's ah, Customers walk in and they touch and feel and see which we did it, Adele technology will, too. It's like, What's your business? Probably going through these applications. I'm sitting. I don't know if I should be modernizing them or should be migrating into Amazon. A ridge or so. So you know that narrative the analysts are appreciative off, and that reflects into the customer conversations I've been having in the briefings, like one on one with customers. They're really kind of lost us. D'oh! Hey, I've I'm working in this environment. There's a lot of pressure for me. Thio modernize my applications or go adopt my cloud. First strategy is where do I start? Where do I go? It's like, you know, there's a big pressure, so they just want clarity. I think in the end, everything we're gonna we're doing in our study that comes out obviously the buzzword for this weird world. It stanza, right? And, you know, >> we've won the product announcements was >> actually Brandon can Oh, yeah. Branding announcement, to be honest is yeah, because we're trying to bring together, as you know, in Tansy has landed in Bill Run Manage billed as in you know how our intent to acquire Pivotal Already acquired Big Tommy. How all our different acquisitions with different brand names are coming together to establish our bills portfolio again. The sphere. Everybody knows the sphere Project Pacific P ks. All of those create a good run time, environment and manageability like Adi manage with assets from ve Franta gain morbid Nami and you know it. So this multiple brands that are coming into this package off Iran. So we had a creative tan Xue too, you know, put forward statement together that yes is going to be 78 different brands coming into this, but going forward to stand. >> So so that's a great strategy on De Liam Seaside on Del Technology. Michael Dell was in here and I asked him. I said he could have been number one in everything you could. Let's talk about I'm number one in servers again. You kind of get on HP, little baby. But those air peace parts now. So we've got the cloud game. It's bringing despair it at parts together kind and making it coherent from a positioning standpoint and understandable and deployable. So you guys are going down there. That's your cloud strategy. Take a minute to explain that. >> Yeah, absolutely, John. So So what? What we've been doing. We announced this at Del Technologies will this year. But, you know, in the cloud infrastructure space, we're working very closely with the anywhere too tightly integrate our hardware solutions with their their cloud software. And we think that by combining these two in a tightly integrated joined engineer, jointly engineered solutions coupled with the service, is that you know, both of'em were and l e m c bring the customers we think we have. We're giving customers are very consistent experience both with their own premises, infrastructure with public cloud as well as with the edge cloud. And that's really what we're trying to do. That's what we've been building upon and uniting the announcements this week. You know, just just hopefully show customers that the sky's the limit, whether it's not just your infrastructure management. Also app development. Managing your APS both traditional and and cloud native. It's all here for And >> what's the big takeaway free from your standpoint that you'd like people to know about what's going on? Adele the emcee for the VM. Where relation. What's the big top item? >> Yeah, there's there's there's just so much good Doctor Wait forever drank the town about. If someone rises >> way, only have two hours >> time work. The most important thing that people should should know about it, >> you know, both deli M. C and V. M. R. I think, are very, very customer driven companies that we respond to customer feedback and we try to respond to them very fast. That's been true to our respective lifetimes and what we've done in the so that I think there's two broad areas of collaboration. One is in the cloud space, which is all about, you know, making sure that the the innovation that GM is bringing the market, we're providing that in a toy tightly integrated infrastructure solution. Right. So we announced from a deli in seaside support for Vienna, where p ks being deployed automatically on Vieques trail using VCF return. Our customers can you know, a lot of teams were telling us we have our developers and turning developers banging slash knocking on the door, saying we need to build a cloud. Native applications. You need to give us an environment that we can use. And you know, if if all righty, if these IittIe teams don't turn around and give them something relatively quickly Well, guess what? The developers will go somewhere else, right? Yeah, exactly. So And if you look at the kubernetes environment today, if you really look look at what the work that's required to set up kubernetes and ready infrastructure. So a lot of scripting a lot of manual, you know, work command line interface is testing stuff. And what what? V m r p k s does. And you know what times you will do as well is really makes it easy when we've taken that with the magic of the American Foundation sitting on top of the exhale to make it super easy for our customers to be able to deploy kubernetes ready infrastructure and then have it be ready for scale, right? And then the important thing here also is this is the same infrastructure of the expelling bcf that our customers are using for traditional applications as well, right? Trying to reduce that complexity. Give them the one platform. So this cloud, you know, we had we were doing the same integration on just with R A C I platform, but also with our best to breach storage or we're not working with the C f. And then we're also making investments on data protection like it's so important to be able to manage your data in this multi cloud world. We have applications sitting everywhere, data. We all know that it is a crown jewel. So >> it's really a king validating from the Vienna a point of view. How that works right is is about applications is about the infrastructure, and it's about the operation and it really kind of together as we talk about Han Xue p. K s is giving our customers that Chuy's off. You pick Cuban eighties, you know, environments, application choice. >> Um, >> it took us. Actually, we didn't We didn't arrive it in that order. Wait. Did it. In the outer off Infrastructure Plot Foundation is a critical piece of the joint engineering. But being aware and the Della Bella Technologies is really from aviary perspective. It took Locke Foundation, and that's the stack that runs in every public cloud. So, you know AWS as your G C P 4000 plus, you know, cloud provider partners. But Flat Foundation is a platform that was validated on. They'll take hardware and you know, that's the package. But now, as you see, we're lighting that it's same infrastructure up for traditional and culminated applications. >> I think the app sides important to point out, because if you could ve m wears heritage, you look at Dale's heritage. You had abs that ran on PCs absent, ran on servers, client server. And if you look at the fertilization that wasn't under the covers, apt an innovation that didn't require code changes. So that's the DNA that you guys have. Now, when you think about like cloud to point out which we've been riffing on that concept that's basically enterprise cloud mean donut. Hybrid cloud applications are gonna drive. The value on our premises is that they're going to be customer requirements that traditionally wouldn't have fit in the product. Marketing, management, featureless customs. Gonna define what they want. They'll build it, and then they'll dictate to the infrastructure to make it run. What? We can't do that yet. It'll be, Yes, we cannot be enabled to be dynamics. This is a a new cloud. 2.0, feature. This changes the complete game on suppliers >> completely agree. You know to your point, because, you know, you bring it thio back toward civilization. We've been going higher up the stack on So Day zero virtualization infrastructure will virtual eyes. So the line off abstraction has just been climbing from hardware retort realization next to like, you know, Pat platform of the service, and you kind of were working up our way down infrastructure. Now that base infrastructure platform looks like plants. Right? >> And there were times out a little bit over here. On the upside, you meet in the middle of >> it in the middle >> that is Hello, >> absolutely so ap and at middle wears shrinking down this way. Infrastructures. You know that the cloud incriminating stride in the middle to say, Well, that's a bit of, you know, infrastructure is a Kodak and pull. He's a bit of a AP AP eyes I can can I draw from And that's kind of nice future middleware. But our dad, I >> mean, I think applications air in charge, right? I mean, that's not sure That's the dynamic. That's the way it should be. But it never was that way before is basically the infrastructure was your gating factor. The network exact cloud two points Network security data. Yes, Dev Ops. A true Dev Ops Devane, Ops, Infrastructures Code. >> The only point I wanted to add is the reason the emphasis on abscess change acts in the past. Used to be a business support system after today is business. >> Yeah, I mean, it's >> really or you're you're gonna live or die based on the digital services you provide your customers. The other thing I was going to say about cloud 2.0, is that it's also becoming increasingly clear when we Dr customers that, um, customers are realizing Cloud is not a place right. There was this kind of cloud. One point it was okay. Big honking data centers, hyper skaters will be found now is that customers have gone through that process of and there's a lot more maturity in terms of understanding. What is good, better running on premises. What is what's better running in public Cloud? There's a place for both of them and that, um, and the cloud is actually the automation, the service delivery. It's Maurin operation and a way of being almost than a place. >> And what is it? Well, what does it do for you all? Then, in terms of challenge, especially at your teams, because you talk about all this customization, you're allowing the application to almost drive. You know, you're changing places in terms of who's the power of the relationship? Yes. Oh, me, yeah, How what? What does that do for you? Oh, in terms of how you approach that, how you change of mindset and how you change what you deliver? >> I think John, it's the way I think about it is that both daily emcee in Vienna, or any technology provider that's worth their salt is in the business of building platforms. Right? And platforms are essentially extensible. They're really they really provide a foundation that other people can innovate on top of it. And that's how I think you handled the customers issue. If one thing I think we can all agree on is that I t has always taught us there's no one size fits. All right? Right. So I think providing choice along every single dimension is super important for our >> customers. Yeah, I think that platform thing is a huge point. And I was gonna ask that question before John got jumped in because one of the things that you just brought up was platform is you guys have to build an enabling platform. One as suppliers. Okay, The successful cloud to point out cos are ones that are innovating in weird areas. Monitoring, for instance, they who will have thought that monitoring now observe ability would be such a massive, lucrative sector four. I pose M and A Why? Because it's data. It's instrumentation. This is operating system kind of thinking here is like network. So thinking like a platform on the supplier size one, the customers got to start thinking like a platform because their stakeholders air their internal developers or a P I shipping to suppliers. This is new for enterprises. This is news requires full hybrid capability. This requires date at the center of the value proposition. >> That's again the biggest value is business and I tr coming together on the area of applications and data. Yeah, that's starting up giving because the successful businesses are the ones who leveraged. Those guys have failed in the future, or the ones who don't pay attention to how critical applications are to the business logic and how critical data is to be able to mine and get the behavioral analytics to get ahead. And >> now the challenge in all this. But I'm learning and covering some of the public sector activity from the C I. A contract Jedi with Amazon to we had Raytheon Her here earlier is another customer example with another client is that procurement? And how they do business is not just a technical thing. There's like all this old legacy, things like, How do you procure technology, who you hire her and we hire developers? We build our own stack, so there's a lot of things going on. >> Yes, and you know, it's really interesting on the even on the procurement front, how our customers experience with Cloud has changed expectations, right, And that's really what we're doing with the McLaren DMC is what customers told us is, Hey, I love the agility of the cloud portal based access. Easy procurement. I love just being able to click a button and not have to navigate all this complexity. I need that for my own premises infrastructure. Imagine FRA structure. And that's, you know, in an example, while all of these dynamics are really all converging, >> well, if you can create abstraction, layer on a level of complexity and make things easy, simple and affordable, that's good business. Model >> one of our customers without taking the name right. The massive retailer you know they're spinning up, um, the retail outlets like crazy. They measure success in This was one truck roll, so they wanna have the entire infrastructure come into stand up one of the retail outlets in one truck roll. When everything comes in one button push that everything gets in a provision and up together. >> So that means I gotta have full software instrumentation automation Got intelligence. This is kind of where cloud 2.0, will lead us all >> likely. And that's expectation now that they go so fast and deploying this one Truck roll Hardware's there. Switch it on from the cloud it stood up and they're in operation 24 hours. >> Well, guys, we're going to get you on our power panels in our Palace of studio on this topic cloudy. But it's gonna be very aggressive and controversial topic because it's going to challenge the status quo. And that's really what this we're talking about >> that's in our DNA. >> And the good news is that that's more time with John. >> So as we before, we say so long, we've talked about clients. We talked about the folks you bet here. We talked about the presentation on this thing and what they're all getting out of it. What are you getting out of this? I mean, what are your takeaways? As you had back to your respective work orders, you get first. Okay? >> I think for me the biggest takeaway is just how incredibly vibrant via more user communities. I mean, it is unlike anything else I've seen before and now with the things like Project Pacific. I just feel like it's It's an opportunity for this community to be able to take the skills they have right now and actually go into this brave new world of containers with so much help forces having to do this all by yourself. Which means it's gonna be, you know, if you think about how largest community is, think about how much innovation this will spore in the container space and because of that in the application space and then because of that in business is I mean, this is a It just feels like a tipping point for me >> to me. Sure, I got high fives from every tech geek, you know, when we came out, you know, I also on our technical advisory boats for the company that these are the hot core geeks who were followed and you know us to the, you know, these were the fans and they were like, you know, they always kind of like if you walk out of them and you talk to them and they, uh how did it work? Because they my bar, you have a very high bar. They cut through all your marketing messaging. They go right to the hay. Is there meet in this And the high fives? I got the hajj. I got out. This is like, guys, you're nailing it. That's enough to tell me that a This is, like, 10 years ago. Yeah, that body. It's like you're so busy. I'm still smiling because the energy is I >> can't give you a hug. Give me a high five. Right. Good work, gentlemen. Thanks for the time. Always, he's still smiling to >> get you to a step. >> Good deal. Thanks for being with us. Thank you. Live on the Cube. You're watching our coverage in world 2019. Where? San Francisco. Back with more. Right after this.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Oh, good afternoon and welcome back as we continue our coverage live here on the cue from Mosconi North in beautiful San Francisco. Clouds of melted away In a way, of course, we're still talking about hybrid Multi. They're not going anywhere. In fact, there are very much entrenched into this show. John Wall's Justin Warren. Glad to have You with us. Joined now by Kevin Chats. Camera. Who's the vice president of Product management Enterprise and SP Solutions of Dental Technologies. Kevin. Good to see you again, sir. Nice to see you, too. Two shots in one week on the Q. We love that and Wait Holmes, who's the director of technical product management at Veum? Where? Wade, Good to see you this afternoon. >> But if you also >> so this this is kind of your party here, VM where? I mean, just give me your impression so far. First off, just kind of what you're sensing that the vibe here of the show and, ah, the kind of work that you're getting done. >> So the vibe here is excitement. I mean, I think everyone's excited about a lot of the announcements around either probably Pacific and how we're redefining the V's Fair platform and Tan Xue and now these capabilities on how these capabilities are going to be able to enhance our capabilities of our cloud provider partners. So I'm part of our club fighter salt for business unit, who specifically makes products and solutions for our cloud provider V, C P P program. And I think couldn't beam or excitement. And they've been a crescendo the past few years and be anywhere and b m world. And I think this has been one of the best ever. >> If the waves hitting the shore big time now. So you you talk about cloud providers about service providers. I mean, one of the same. Or Or how do you guys define that now? Or how do you separate that? >> Yeah, I think these terms are largely used interchangeably. To a large degree, I think if we look att at the cloud industry in the provider industry over the last several years, maybe about 5 to 7 years ago, there was a belief from every single cloud provider that they needed to build a scaled platform like a W s like Microsoft Azure like Google Compute. And that they were all in the business of a race to building the most robust, most scalable, most feature rich, most differentiated cloud that was largely erased the bottom from an economics perspective. And I think just about all of all of the service providers and now these cloud providers that we work with have really moved to a different model. What they've recognized is first off. The race to the hyper scale is not a profitable business that you want to race against. Number two. Ah, the transition for large enterprise I t small enterprise medium business to the cloud is so complex that it's not a game of building clouds and not a game of building platforms. It's a game of building practices at this point and cloud providers or building practices that allow them to find their own niche and differentiation off differentiated offerings. Whether that be on Prem Private Cloud hosted Private Cloud and then partnering with the hyper scale er's for the massively scaled multi tenant cloud world. And when we start to realize that this managed offering these cloud practices are there to help the enterprise and small medium business in their transition to the public cloud in transition to cloud and moving towards more managed I t offerings. What we're finding is the reemergence of these cloud providers in a meaningful way, starting to bridge the gap of skill, set, mismatches and expertise. Mismatches at Enterprise I t just doesn't have to embrace cloud technology. >> Yeah, for a long time there, there was the cloud Geraghty, who were saying that the public cloud is the only way this is gonna happen. Everything's going to be there. And some some of us I would count myself among them was a little bit skeptical about that. That approach to things and a lot of it with a lot of the pressure on on service providers was you don't even bother getting into the cloud business. Just shut up shop and go home. This is never going to be a good idea for you to compete in this at all. And it sounds like that that some of these providers have actually gone. You know what we've We've got a viable business here. There are customers here who need things done that we do really well that are not available out in public Cloud. So what are some of the things that some of the things that you're hearing from these cloud cloud providers, that that they are finding from customers that they value, that they not finding anywhere else? >> So I grew 100% that the club wider there, find their business is still growing, and it's due to their expertise. Is Kevin said, that the building practices they understand enterprise customers? Veum, Where business? They understand the platform that they're running the enterprise and are able to provide additional differentiated service's while leverage in the technology that the enterprise they're utilizing in their own data centers. So it's able to pride value out of service is with the same platform that air using in their own premises and providing those capability of same platform in a cloud model. So, given a pragmatic way for enterprises to be able to migrate to a cloud in a hybrid cloud, >> are there specific practices you noticing that is that kind of stand out as being particularly common? >> Yeah, s so I think that through the answer is yes, right? And the answer is that vertical expertise is king here, right? Understanding the industries in which the cloud platforms get deployed and how those industries consume. Resource is the use cases. How they monetize their business is key for success. But I think that what we where we've lived over the last several years is that the building blocks for all of these vertical industries, the only uniform way you had to do it was with the massively scaled public cloud providers. The hyper scale er's what we're doing now, Adele Technologies Cloud is we're enabling a consistent set of building blocks for all of these vertical industries that all of these vertical X three experts in the vertical industries across the cloud providers can then bring a common building block and go address the complex problems of building the use cases, building the monetization models, building the differentiated feature set. >> So I mean, can you give me an example? I mean, what you talking about? It's like if you're going about health care versus transportation versus manufacturing, some things that were going to a different way, we're going to slice this That's right. It's a different >> set of ecosystem partners. It's a different set of vertical applications, a different set of problems. It's different set of monetization models across the board, right? You know, retail has very specific requirements around Leighton See sensitivity and the need to be able to address micro transactions. Security capabilities of those transactions or what not, Health care is governed by hip on various other legislative. When you build in Europe, you have, ah, various data protection and privacy implications to keep in mind. It's right, so all of this is not typically available in public Cloud Public Cloud is built for a lowest common denominator. One size fits all, and then you come bring differentiation. On top of that now is enterprise. I T organizations start to migrate their workloads to Public Cloud. They're looking for consistency in terms of how they've lived before and how they work before how they've operated before. How do they migrate those applications, right? It's not I'm building everything natively for public cloud is that I have an entire set of applications that were designed in my enterprise i d environment that I just want to find a new way to operate in VM wears a consistent abstraction. Layers is really the path forward, So DT Cloud on Deli emcee and TT Cloud leveraging the public cloud providers in the V M wear abstraction with both feet spheres. Well, it's vey cloud foundations, eyes really a commonality that they can now the uses a foundational building block for all their service is >> yes. So where one of the things that a lot of customers have invested over a decade or Maur envy em where? And they have a lot of processes and tools and skills that they have invested in. And it sounds like for some of these cloud providers specializing in a particular industry, that there's a risk there that you will end up with building blocks that, yes, they're customized for one particular thing. But now I have to operate them a little bit differently. And now I've got a lot of different ways of doing things, and particularly as a provider, then that that adds cost. And I want to try to get some of those costs out there because they think that influences my margin. So is the choice. Of'em were one way of dealing with that because I can maintain that same consistent way of managing things. >> Absolutely. And that's key to some of the work that VM wear and Dell has been working together on two. Allow for Kevin Mention, Adele Technology Cloud Platform, which the baseline of that is being more cloud foundation. So been ableto have that homogeneous operational model, and Mona's data plane set is the same V sphere and XXV sand based originality perspective. So the operational model, whether it's in the providers infrastructure or whether it's on premises within enterprise is similar. >> And I think there's even 1/3 vector to this, which is, um, yeah, one public cloud provider is not gonna win. All of the public cloud providers are going to exist, and the scale of a Microsoft azure and the scale of an AWS on a scale of a Google compute put them in position to continue to lead this industry forward. And it's it's difficult to bet on one horse, right? So the GMC model on the DT Cloud model allows us to be able to scale across all of these different cloud providers and as an enterprise organization that's making specific decisions based on region or based on other financials that some of these workloads are going to say in AWS, and some of them are going to sit in Microsoft Azure, etcetera, etcetera is a common abstraction across all of them. >> But at that point, I mean the fact that you're talking about, um, vertical practices, right? Verticals having practices that might be unique to their particular industry. And now you're talking about them deciding that they might all flowed work Thio, maybe an azure. Maybe in Google. Maybe I'd be it. Whatever, Um, I mean multiple complexities for you in dealing with that because you're gonna be the translator, right? You've got to be. You've got to be multi lingual, not only within in the cloud world, but also in a vertical world too. Right? So tough road for you guys to provide that kind of flexibility and that kind of knowledge. >> Oh, I mean, that's the key to the software and solutions that GM was providing and allowing for solutions and sat space capabilities to provide a modernise, softer, defined capabilities across clouds or a and be able to manage things across, such as cost in via cloud health and other manage service's capabilities by our software platform and then be ableto have this. These capabilities in the Bean Imlay consumed by providers and turnkey fashion by utilizing del technologies, bx rail are and VCF one VX rail and having us all package together, and so that providers no longer have to focus on building a core infrastructure. But they're now able to focus on that integration layer. Focus on the additional higher level service is that are able to stitch together the use this multi cloud environment >> decision logic that our customers have. It's just so complex, and I think that the message that we've heard loud and clear from them is that they feel like once they're in particular ecosystem, they're locked into that ecosystem. And the more that we can do that give them flexibility to bring these ecosystems together and leverage the benefits and the capabilities and the regional and geo location of just about all the different ecosystems that exists and build their own ecosystems. On top of that, especially if you're a cloud provider, is really what they're looking to do. And when the foundational building blocks all look different, the integration look different the automation look different. The orchestration look different in the storage. Later look different. It's just It was impossible, right? It's really on us to provide an abstraction to make that easy for them to accomplish their business. >> Consistent foundation is critical, and that's what we're bringing through the cloud provider today. >> One thing that has changed from from technology of 12 12 15 20 years ago is the consumption model that cloud has provided. S. So what are you seeing around service providers, providing that pretty much you have to provide if your cloud provided you have to provide some kind of consumption model because that's what people have in their minds when they think about about Cloud it is. It's not just about the technology side of things. Actually, we're out the business operations about, you know, the financing and the funding models of things. What are you seeing with the cloud providers and service providers? How are they changing the way that they allow people to finance the buy of this infrastructure? >> So that's one of the pieces that, in being where Rendell is working together to allow for not just software, which through the visa program all of our software solutions are consumed through a subscription like model. So it's pay as you go, but also be able to consume hardware and consume the turnkey patches package so that VCF on Vieques rail and the Cloud Provider platform can be consumed in a pay as you go subscription model, which is a way that providers want to be able to then provides software and capabilities to their enterprise customers. >> Have they completely changed across to being purely consumption? Or do we still have a lot of industries that preferred by things that with Catholics >> it would be fantastic if the world converged on one answer? Everything is always easier when there's one answer. But I think, ah, one of the things we recognize is that, ah, and it's true and technology. It's true in business models. It's true. In operational models, there's never in. It's never just a or answer right. It's always an end, and there's a need for us to embrace multiple different models in order to meet the needs of our customers. And even a single service provider will find particular areas that they wanted, consumption based model and others that they realize that it's a well entrenched business for them, and the risk is a little bit lower, and they're willing to take on that risk and look at a Cap IX base model right there. Certainly financial implications to both an Op X and the Catholics model. There's tax implications, and you know where. We're still a little bit all over the map in terms of their preferences. >> Hopefully, we'll see that shake out a little bit and we'll have some standard patents to match the practices that will just make it a little bit easier to design the solution. >> I think the Saturn standard pattern that I expect to emerge is that we have to do everything >> for everyone >> in every way that they want to see. >> Oh, you left there, Kevin. I can't imagine that being too difficult. Everything. Everyone it all at every time. That's right. All right. Hey, thanks for the time of and the discussion and good luck with handling that. I know. That's a that's a big lift on. I know we're joking, but, uh, it's a great world for you. Certainly exciting time. And we thank you for your time here. >> Thank you. Thank you guys appreciate the time. >> I appreciate being World 2019. Coverage continues right here on the Cube. We're live and we're in San Francisco.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum, World 2019 brought to you by the M Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to San Francisco. Day three of our coverage here on the Cube Of'em world 2019. I'm John Wall's Glad to have you here aboard for our continuing coverage here Day Volonte is also joining me, as is the sartorially resplendent Eric Herzog, cm of and vice president. Global storage channels that IBM storage. Eric, good to see you and love the shirt. Very >> nice. Thank you. Well, always have a wine shirts when I'm on the Cube >> I love in a long time Cuba to we might say, I'm sure he's got the record. Yeah, might pay. Well, >> you and pattern, neck and neck. We'll go to >> the vault. And well, >> since Pat used to be my boss, you know, couch out a path. >> Well, okay. Let the little show what IBM think. Maybe. Well, that's OK. Let's just start off a big picture. We're in all this, you know. Hybrid. Multilingual. This discussion went on this week. Obviously, just your thoughts about general trends and where the business is going now supposed to wear? Maybe we're 23 years ago. Well, the >> good thing is for IBM storage, and we actually came to your partner and titty wiki Bond when our new general manager, Ed Walsh, joined. And we came and we saw Dave and John at the old office are at your offices, and we did a pitch about hybrid multi cloud. Remember that gave us some feedback of how to create a new slide. So we created a slide based on Dave's input, and we were doing that two and 1/2 years ago. So we're running around telling the storage analyst Storage Press about hybrid multi cloud based on IBM storage. How weaken transparently move data, things we do with backup, Of course. An archive. You've got about 450 small and medium cloud providers. Their backup is a service engine. Is our spectrum protect? And so we talked about that. So Dave helped us craft the slide to make it better, because he said, we left a couple things >> out that Eric >> owes you. There were a few other analysts I'm sure you talked to and got input, but but us really were the first toe to combine those things in your in your marketing presentations. But >> let's I'd love to get >> an update on the business. Yes, help people understand the IBM storage organization. You guys created the storage business, you know, years and years and years ago. It's a it's a you know you've got your core business, which is column arms dealers. But there's a lot of Regent IBM, the Cloud Division. You've got the service's division, but so help us understand this sort of organizational structure. So >> the IBM story division's part of IBM Systems, which includes both the mainframe products Z and the Power Server entities. So it's a server in storage division. Um, the Easy guys in particular, have a lots of software that they sell and not just mainframe. So they have a very, very large software business, as do we. As you know, from looking at people that do the numbers, We're the second largest storage software company in the world, and the bulk of that software's not running on IBM gear. So, for example, spectrum protect will back up anyone's array spectrum scale and our IBM Cloud Object storage are sold this software only software defined as the spectrum virtualized. You could basically create a J. Bader Jabo after your favorite distributor or reseller and create your honor. Rates are software, but the all of the infrastructure would actually not be ours, not branded by us. And you call us for tech support for the software side. But if you had a bad power supplier fan, you'd have to call, you know, the reseller distributor said this very robust storage software business. Obviously you make sure that was compatible with the other server elements of IBM systems. But the bulk of our storage is actually sitting connect to some server that doesn't have an IBM logo on it. So that's the bulk of our business connected to Intel servers of all types that used to include, of course, IBM Intel Server division, which was sold off to Lenovo. So we still have a very robust business in the array space that has nothing to do with working on a power machine are working on a Z machine, although we clearly worked very heavily with them and have a number of things going with him, including something that's coming very shortly in the middle of September on some new high end products that we're going to dio >> went 90 Sea Counts All this stuff. Do they >> count to give IBM credit for all the storage that lives inside of the IBM Cloud? Do you get you get credit for that or >> not get credit for that? So when they count our number, it's only the systems that we sell and the storage software that we sell. So if you look at if we were a standalone company, which would include support service made everything, some of which we don't get credit for, right, the support and service is a different entity at IBM that does that, UM, the service's group, the tech support that all goes to someone else. We don't have a new credit >> so hypothetical I don't I don't think this is the case, but let's say hypothetically, if pure storage sold an array into IBM Cloud, they would get credit for it. But if you're array and I'm sure this happens is inside of the IBM, you don't get credit for it. >> That's true interesting, so it's somewhat undercounts. Part of that is the >> way we internally count because we're selling it to ourselves. >> But that's it. >> It's not. It's more of an accounting thing, but it's different when we sell the anybody else. So, for example, we sell the hundreds of cloud providers who in theory compete with the IBM Cloud Division >> to you Get credit for that. You get credit for your own away. That's way work. But if we were standing >> on coming for, say, government, we were Zog in store and I bought the company away, we would be about a $6.3 billion standalone storage software company. That's what we would be if we were all in because support service manes. If we were our own company with our own right legal entity, just like net app or the other guys, we'd be Stanley would be in that, you know, low $6 billion range, counting everything all in. When we do report publicly, we only report our storage system because we don't report our storage software business. And as you notice a few times, our CFO has made comments. If we did count, the storage software visit would be ex, and he's publicly stated that price at least two times. Since I've been an idea when he talks about the software on, but legally we only talk about IBM storage systems. When he publicly state our numbers out onto Wall Street, that's all >> we publicly report. So, um, you're like, you're like a walking sheet of knowledge here, but I wonder if you could take the audience through the portfolio. Oh, it's vast. How should we think about it? And the names have changed. You talk about, you know, 250 a raise, whatever it is the old sand volume control. And now it's a spectrum virtualized, >> right? So take us to the portfolio. What's the current? It's free straight for. >> We have really three elements in the portfolio, all built around, if you will, solution plays. But the three real elements in the portfolio our storage arrays, storage systems, we have entry mid range and high end, just like our competitors do. We lead with all flash, but we still sell hybrid and obviously, for backup, an archive. We still sell all hard drive right for those workloads. So and we have filed blocking object just like most other guys do, Um, for an array, then we have a business built around software, and we have two key elements. Their software defined storage, and we saw that software completely stand alone. It happens, too, by the way, be embedded on the arrays. So, for example, Dave, you mentioned Spectrum virtualized that ship's on flash systems and store wise. But if you don't want our raise, we will sell you just spectrum virtualized alone for block spectrum scale for Big Big Data A. I file Workloads and IBM caught object storage, which could all of them could be bought on an array. But they also could be bought. Itjust Standalone component. Yes, there's a software so part of the advantage we feel that delivers. It's some of the people that have software defined storage, that air raid guys. It's not the same software, so for us, it's easier for us to support and service. It's easier for a stack developing have leading it. Features is not running two different pieces of software running, one that happens to have a software on Lee version or an array embedded version. So we've got that, and then the third is around modern data protection, and that's really it. So a modern data protection portfolio built around spectrum, protect and Protect Plus and some other elements. A software to find storage where we sell the software only, and then arrays. That's it. It's really three things and not show. Now they're all kinds components underneath the hood. But what we really do is we sell. We don't really run around and talk about off last race. We talk about hybrid multi cloud. Now all of our flash raise and a lot of our software defined storage will automatically tear data out, too. Hybrid multi cloud configurations. We just So we lead with that same thing. We have one around cyber resiliency. Now, the one thing that spans the whole portfolio of cyber resiliency way have cyber rebellion see and a raise. We have some softer on the mainframe called Safeguarded Copy that creates immutable copies and has extra extra security for the management rights. You've got management control, and if you have a malware ransomware attack, you couldn't recover to these known good copies. So that's a piece of software that we sell on the mainframe on >> how much growth have you seen in that in? Because he's never reveals if you've got it resonating pervasive, right, Pervasive. So >> we've got, for example, malware and ransomware detection. Also, Inspector protect. So it's taken example. So I'm going to steal from the Cube and I'm gonna ask Dave and for you, I want a billion dollars and Dave's gonna laugh at me because he used a spectrum protect. He's gonna start laughing. But if I'm the ransomware guy, what do I do? I go after your snapshots, your replicas and your backup data sets. First, I make sure I've got those under control. And then when I tell you I'm holding you for ransom, you can't go back to a known good copy. So Ransomware goes after backup snaps and replicas first. Then it goes half your primary storage. So what we do, inspector protect, for example, is we know that at Weeki Bond and the Cube, you back up every night from 11 32 1 30 takes two hours to back you up every night. It's noon. There's tons of activity in the backup data sets. What the heck is going on? We send it out to the admin, So the admin for the Cube wicky bond takes a look and says, No server failure. So you can't be doing a lot of recovery because of a bad server. No storage failures. What the heck is going on? It could be a possible mount where ransomware attack. So that type of technology, we encrypt it, rest on all of our store to raise. We have both tape and tape and cloud air gapping. I'm gonna ask you about that. We've got both types of air gapped >> used to hate tape. Now he loves my love, right? No, I used to hate it, But now I love it because it's like the last resort, just in case. And you do air gapping when you do a WR gapping with customers, Do you kind of rotate the You know, it's like, uh, you know, the Yasser Arafat used to move every night. You sleep in a different place, right? You gonna rotate the >> weird analogy? You do >> some stuff. There's a whole strategy >> of how we outlined how you would do a tape air gap, you a cloud air gap. Of course you're replicating or snapping out to the cloud anyway, so they can't get to that. So if you have a failure, we haven't known good copy, depending on what time that is, right. And then you just recover. Cover back to that and even something simple. We have data rest, encryption. Okay. A lot of people don't use it or won't use it on storage because it's often software based, and so is permanent. Well, in our D s platform on the mainframe, we can encrypt with no performance hit on our flash system products we can encrypt with no performance it on our high end store. Wise, we have four models on the two high end stores models we could encrypt with no performance penalty. So why would you not encrypt all your debt? When there's a performance penalty, you have to sort of pick and choose. My God, I got to encrypt this valuable financial data, but, boy, I really wish it wasn't so slow with us. There is no performance it when you encrypt. So we have encryption at rest, encryption at flight malware and ran somewhere detection. We've got worm, which is important, obviously, doesn't mean I can't steal from wicked Bond Cube, but I certainly can't go change all your account numbers for all your vendors. For sake. of argument, right? So and there's obviously heavily regulated industries that still require worm technology, right? Immutable on the fine, by the way, you could always if it's wormed, you could encrypt it if you want to write. Because Worm just means it's immutable. It doesn't. It's not a different data type. It's just a mutable version of that data. >> So the cyber resiliency is interesting, and it leads me to another question I have around just are, indeed so A lot of companies in this industry do a lot of D developing next generation products. I think, you know, look a t m c when you were there, you know, this >> was a lot of there. Wasn't a ton, >> of course, are a lot of patents and stuff like that. IBM does corps are a lot of research and research facilities, brainiac scientists, I want if you could talk about how the storage division takes advantage of that, either specifically, is it relates to cyber resiliency. But generally, >> yes, so as you know, IBM has got, I think it's like 12 12 or 15 research on Lee sites that that's all they do, and everyone there is, in fact, my office had to be. Akiyama didn't labs, and there's two labs actually hear. The AMA didn't research lab and the Silicon Valley lab, which is very close about five miles away. Beautiful. Almost everything. There is research. There's a few product management guys I happen, Navid desk there every once. Well, see a sales guy or two. But essentially, they're all Richard with PhDs from the leading inverse now at Al Madden and many sites, all the divisions have their own research teams there. There's a heavy storage contingent at Al Midan as an example. Same thing in Zurich. So, for example, we just announced last week, as you know, stuff that will work with Quantum on the tape side. So you don't have to worry about because one of things, obviously, that people complain about quantum computing, whether it's us or anyone else, the quantum computing you can crack basically any encryption. Well, guess what? IBM research has developed tape that can be encrypted. So if using quantum computer, whether it be IBM or someone else's when you go with quantum computing, you can have secured data because the quantum computer can't actually cracked the encryption that we just put into that new tape that was done at IBM Research. How >> far away are we from From Quantum, actually being ableto be deployed and even minor use cases. >> Well, we've got available right now in ibm dot com for Betas. So we've got several 1000 people who have been accidents in it. And entities, we've been talking publicly in the 3 to 7 year timeframe for quantum computer crap out. Should it? Well, no, because if you do the right sort of security, you don't but the power. So if you're envisioning one of my favorite movies, I robot, right where she's doing her talking and that's that would really be quantum in all honesty. But at the same time, you know, the key thing IBM is all about ethics and all about how we do things, whether it be what we do with our diversity programs and hiring. And IBM is always, you know, at the forefront of doing and promoting ethical this and ethical. Then >> you do a customer data is huge. >> Yeah, and what we do with the customer data sets right, we do. GDP are, for example, all over the world were not required by law to do it really Only in Europe we do it everywhere. And so if you're not, if you're in California, if you happen to be in Zimbabwe or you're in Brazil, you get the same protection of GDP are even though we're not legally required to do it. And why are we doing that? Because they're always concerned about customers data, and we know they're paranoid about it. We want to make sure people feel comfortable with IBM. We do. Quantum computing will end up in that same vein. >> But you know, I don't worry about you guys. I were about the guys on the other side of the fence, the ones that I worry about, the same thing Capabilities knew that was >> on, of course. And you know, he talked about it in his speech, and he talked about action on the Cube yesterday about some of his comments on the point, and he mentioned that was based on Blockchain. What he said was Blockchain is a great technology. They've got Blockchain is no. IBM is a big believer in Blockchain. We promoted all over the place and in fact we've done all kinds of different Blockchain things we just did. One announced it last week with Australia with the Australian. I think it is with their equivalent of Wall Street. We've done some stuff with Merrick, the big shipping container thing, and it's a big consortium. That's all legal stuff that was really talking about someone using it the wrong way. And he's very specific point out that Blockchain is a great technology if used ethically, and IBM is all about how we do it. So we make sure whether be quantum computing, Blockchain, et cetera, that everything we do at IBM is about helping the end users, making sure that we're making, for example, open source. As you know. Well, the number one provider of open source technology pre read had acquisition is IBM. We submit Maur into the open community. Renounce Now are we able to make some money off of that? Sure we are, but we do it for a reason, because IBM believes as day point out in this core research. Open computing is court research, and we just join the Open Foundation last week as well. So we're really big on making sure that what we do ourselves is Ethel now We try to make sure that what happens in the hands of people who buy our technology, which we can always track, is also done ethically. And we go out of our way to join the right industry. Associations work with governments, work with whatever we need to do to help make sure that technology could really be iRobot. Anyone who thinks that's not true. If you talk to your grandparent's goto, go to the moon. What are you talking about? >> What Star Trek. It's always >> come to me. Oh, yeah, >> I mean, if you're your iPhone is basically the old community. Transport is the only thing I wish I could have the transfer. Aziz. You know, >> David has the same frame us up. I'm afraid of flying, and I I felt like two million miles on United and David. He's laughs about flowers, so I'm waiting for the transport. I know that's why anymore there's a cone over here. Go stand. Or maybe maybe with a little bit of like, I'm selling my Bitcoin. No, hang on, just hold on. There's always a comeback. Not always. There could be a comeback because Derek always enjoy it as always. Thanks for the good seeing you. All right, Back with more Veum. World 2019 The Cube live in San Francisco.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back here on the Cube, we continue our coverage. We're live in San Francisco. Mosconi, North Day to wrapping up Day two of our three days of coverage here, Veum. World 2019 day Volante. John Wall's glad to have you with us here on the Cube. And we're now joined by Kevin Schatz. Camera. Who's the Vice president of service provider Strategy and solutions. A deli. Um, See, Kevin. Good to see this afternoon. Thank you. You as well. And, uh, yeah, Tarazi, Who is the S v p and chief technical officer at Dell Technologies in the heart. Good to see you. Thanks for taking the time to be with us. A couple of telco guys and we've had a lot of telco on and talking about it in terms of progress that you made. This was an area that you got into with a major commitment, some probably three years ago. Kind of bitch market for me then for where you were there on on day one to where you are now today and the progress you've made and maybe the service is that you're about to provide. Yeah, >> sure. So I think if we look over the last three years, our opportunity that we defined early on telecommunications space was the virtual ization, and software to find everything was leaving the data center. And we would see the software to find architecture extend all the way from radio through the core network through the cloud over a period of time. And it started with technologies like network function virtualization. So if we flash back three years ago, where our entire strategy was built on the premise that relationships with the network equipment providers like Nokia and Ericsson, where our primary path to market our primary opportunity, I think what we've realized is we've emerged in this space to a greater detail is that our expertise, our expertise and experience in building I T Networks and Building Cloud has led to the first wave of conversations in the telecommunications industry directly not through the network equipment providers, but that carriers want to engage directly with Delhi emcee for the lessons learned and how did to play. I tr detectors. And now, as we extend towards the edge that they want to engage directly with Del Technologies in terms of how we build cloud architectures. We've had a number of big announcements. Over the last several years. We've announced partnerships and engagements with NTT. We've announced partnerships and engagements with China Unicom. Just in the last three months, we've announced partnerships with our rounds around network EJ out of France and then most recently with 18 C on the automation of EJ infrastructure related to their airship project. I think from a benchmark perspective, it's just been a continued growth opportunity for us and recognition that the more we engaged in, the more we contribute as a productive member of what is a very complex and changing and transforming industry, the more success in relationships that will build, and the more it will translate into opportunity to sell to >> when you think about you have the the modernization of N F. E. For example, as a former technologist inside a large telco, Um, what were some of the challenges? Is it? It's taken a long time. Obviously, when you talk to some of the telcos, they say, Well, you know it affects our infrastructure, but we still get this application mass. I mean, maybe you could add some color and describe for our audience why it's been so challenging. >> Yeah, I think that's an excellent question. Um, going back to my days at Telco on data centers, even S d n and the software defined tools were just beginning to show up. So the biggest challenges where you were basically having toe work with predefined operating system. But he defined hardware. The hardware was not exposed for for GAM ability, the ability to take advantage of it. And then you had to interrogate multiple players of technology in a way where it took significant time, too, not only for software development, but for product development and user experience. Since then, many of those walls have come down, and some of them have come down very hard. When you look at what we're doing, Adele here and we lead for the open networking. Not only do you have the choice of operating system were also pushing hard. Don't new open operating systems for networking like Sonic with Microsoft and bade calm. And then we're taking industry leading steps to expose the silicon chips themselves for four GAM ability. These are all the components that are critical. When you talk about five G, for example, do you really have to have those capabilities? I also would say that the software evolution have made it to infrastructure. The Dev ops and the modern applications we talk about here is also available for infrastructure, which means you really can develop a capability in weeks instead of years and months. Five people can do in amazing parkas. All of this was not possible before, >> so we talked to Shekhar about this in the earlier segment challenges in the telco business. I mean, the one hand you got these quasi monopolies in some cases real monopolies that just chug along and do pretty well. But the same time you got the cost for a bit dramatically coming down, you've got the data growth doing this. You got over the top providers taking advantage of the those those networks, and so new infrastructure allows them to be more more agile. But there's a workforce component to that, and there's a skill set, and that's how they got to transform. I wonder if you could maybe talk about that a little bit. Kevin. >> Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I think when we work within this industry, it's not just a technology conversation. It's the ability to consume an operationalized technology. And I think that comes down to a number of different things, comes down to the processes that exist when it comes down to the skill sets that exists to be able to build these new processes around. And I think if we flash back several years ago, the model of how we build networks was that the team that operated it needed to understand networking. Right now, if you look at the team that needs to operate it, they need to understand networking. They need to understand, compute. They need to understand virtualization. They need to understand AP eyes. They need to be able to script and program. They need to understand some level of data science that they can close a loop in the operational models eventually with a I and machine learning technologies. So I think that the teams that are getting built look very different than the single soul capabilities that they've had in the past, right? These air smaller teams they're more agile teams that can develop and have their own more unique processes in each part of the network. Right? And even if we think about the organizational structures, we've always built vertical organizations. Right? When I had an appliance, that was an e p. C. I had an operations team that was focused on an e p. C. And I even broke that into an S gateway P Gateway and Emma, me et cetera. If we look at the world now, that s Gateway P Gateway. Mm E consists of a server consists of the networking that connects at server consists of a virtual ization layer. It consists of a stack of a software application, and all of those need to be automated, orchestrated program toe work as any PC does. So I think that the skill sets have just really expanded in terms of what's expected, >> and this is really important because the process is used to be pretty well known and hardened, so the infrastructure could be hard, and now it's of every every months, the more the market changes right. What kind of what kind of challenges is that bring to the telco provider? But also to the infrastructure provider. >> Yeah, I actually I have a really good way to describe what I think is happening. We heard it from a lot of our customers and not just tell cause but enterprises. I would say the last 5 to 10 years everybody's been dealing with Hybrid Cloud. The Move to Cloud Waas. The Big Challenge. While this remains a key challenge, a new challenge showed up, which is how to succeed in this new modern software development model. You know, are you able to do to move at that speed, which means you have full stack engineers? Can you develop the app beginning to end? It's not a nightie model anymore. Also, you no longer have an operations team. You really have to have saris who, able with software and also the customer service, changed to a softwood Devyn. So we're starting to hear from a lot of our customers. That's the next journey they really need help with. If you think of infrastructure, those challenges are even bigger, and this is where it's important to lean on technology partners who can help you with that, >> and you hit on five G a little bit ago. You have in your initial statement and we've kind of touched on the impact that it can have in terms of you understanding there. They're going to a transformative time, right? I mean, telcos are with new capabilities, and new opportunities in this whole edge is gonna be crazy. So you've got to you've got I would say some learning to do, but you have. You've got to get up to speed on what their new fundamentals are going to be, right? Yeah, I think that's >> true. I think where you know, we we've understood >> their fundamentals because it's the same transition that the IittIe world's gone through. And to a large degree, that cloud world has gone through. I think that the challenge we've we've been working to break through collectively as an industry is the paralysis at the rate of adoption of new technologies because they're so much change so quickly because we talk about virtualization. And then we're talking about kubernetes. We're talking about cloud native we're talking about Ah, bare Metal Service's. We continue to talk about Micro Micro Service's architectures. We see this progression of technology that's happening so fast in various segments of the industry. I think that the telecommunications industry has been somewhat paralyzed in terms of where do they jump in and which do they adopt and how fast they migrate between them. And which of them can be capable of being hardened to be telco grade and fit into their requirements. That they have for being able to offer regulated service >> is paralyzed because it's just too fast. It's too fast for a big amazed, a big decision to make for big. But but things are evolving too quickly. That's that's It's evolving >> too quickly. And they also sometimes have a concern that they get stuck on a dead end path, right, Because things change so quickly it's Do I jump here? Then here, then here, then here, Then here. Where do I follow a logical path and what we tend to find when we work with the telecommunications industry is that, yes, del technologies can define a strategy. Certainly VM wear and L E. M. C can define our individual strategies. Are operators can define their strategies. But there's just not one strategy for this industry. Reality is, is that when you get when you get together with an ecosystem of partners, and you work at a particular telecommunications company. That is a strategy, and you start from scratch when you go to the next right because they're their ability to consume technology. It's just so different the end game, maybe the same across the board. But the path to get there will look different, >> so every customer's different Get that. But clearly some patterns must be emerging. So my question is, where do you start your sitting down with What are you seeing in terms of common starting points and advice you'd give Thio? >> I think that to Maine has everybody starting with First of all, the physical infrastructure. Compute storage Networking is moving to X 86 model of some sort, which means many, many parts of their infrastructure today that is not based on X 86 needs to transition. So what? Seeing big art piece significant discussions of how you take compute and this new programmable networking and put it everywhere like in thousands of locations. So infrastructure wise, that is a known specific thing to be solved at early stages and given you know, that capability he's we've delivered toward enterprises. We have a lot of tools and capabilities to give them, and the 2nd 1 is that a lot of people are approaching this as a network issue. In reality, it's a cloud decision, not a network. You hurt Shaker, talk about it so the tools capabilities you need to build a cloud is completely different. This cloud may not be genetic cloud it needs to be. It needs to support the defense specific platforms under for they want Cloud, and they needed to support the specific capabilities. So that's the two. A year ago, nobody even could articulate. That was the challenge they were facing. But I would say that's what we are today. >> I would add to that that as we kind of think about the infrastructure and then that cloud decision that there's abstractions that exist between those right at the infrastructure layer, there is the need tohave, an automation system that has the ability to support multiple different cloud platforms that sit on top of it. And that's work that we're doing in the deli in seaside and then secondary to that at the cloud layer. It's the ability to support a multi virtualization environment. Virtual machines do exist and will continue to exist. Kubernetes and cloud native containerized applications do exist and will continue to exist. And the challenge becomes. How do I orchestrate an environment that allows those two exist simultaneously and be layered on top of a common building block of infrastructure? And I think that's really the power that the broader Del Technologies has is that we have all of these entities and capabilities in house. >> How long does this take? A telco toe transform is this decade. Is it? Is it Maur can Obviously certain parts can happen faster. But when when you sit down with with customers and they put together their plans, I mean, what what what's their time horizon? >> So I would argue that we define the first NFI standards and 2012. And if we look globally and even within the vast majority of the Indus story and carriers were somewhere in the 10 to 15% range, yeah, >> yeah, that too compelling. Uh, hey, is that enough? Maybe be a forcing function for making some of those decisions. Are the economics on moving toe X 86 are very compelling. It's 10 times the speed to deploy, and it's a massive order of magnitude and costs. Therefore, it's not something that you could wait on as you continue to build capacity. So that's is forcing the infrastructure decision. The second forcing function is that what five G's starting to look like is not network and wireless, independent from enterprise solutions, you really have to collapse. The single infrastructure you know to offer service is and why it lists embedded on That's another forcing function in terms of enterprises is starting to ask for those capabilities. >> You know, you mentioned X 86 couple times and when you think about the Telco Cloud generically what we're talking about here in the in the commercial cloud not to tell ghost no commercial but the mainstream cloud you're getting a lot of offload, you know, hardware offload alternative processing arm uh, GP use F p g a Z even, you know, custom, a six coming back. You've seen the same thing in the Telco club >> for sure, I think I think if if you look at what we've done over the last several years, we've seen this dramatic shift in almost a pendulum swing away from a six and proprietary hardware towards everything on X 86 I think what we've learned over the last several years at X 86 is a platform that has its value. But it's just not for every work with So we've seen things like network slicing and control, user plane separation and technologies that her first moving user playing very high Io applications back onto smart nicks and F PJs and eventually onto merchant silicon with programmable silicate in the network switches. But I think that even if you look at what's happening in in Public Cloud with things like GPU virtualization, they're still largely virtualized in the time domain, which means that they're used by a particular application for a period of time and then the next application scheduled it in the next application schedule. Is it that doesn't work for network workloads? So I think that what we're finding is we go to this Toko Cloud model, especially with offload in the virtual ization of Acceleration Technologies, is that it's an entire set of problems that just aren't solved in public cloud yet. >> Yeah, I would say, based on experience, the vast majority of network workloads have to be x 86 I definitely think arm cores and GPO offloads will play all at some point in the future. But they that's not the heavy duty that you need to offload those functions because most of these network applications were it. And for custom, a sick. That's very high performance that you know, it has high throughput. Security, built in ability to build service is directly into the silicon. So that kind of transition over time you'll feed. You see a lot of distributed applications, it and container formats all the way at the edge. But that transition to that kind of distributed model from what we are today is probably not possible. And I would argue you'll always have their mics off high performance, high throughput. I mean, think about it. If you're trying to activate 20,000 I ot devices instantly, you really need a high core density, you know, x 86 chip with significant memory. You really worry about the data plane and how much data you can put. So it's better >> we didn't even hit I ot dead. Wait, wait Another day, Another conversation. Hey, thanks for the time. We certainly appreciate it. Been a good show I for you all to write for, sir? Good. Good energy. Good vibes and good business. Thanks for the time We appreciate it. >> Thank you, guys. Thank >> you very much for your time. >> Watching the Cube live coverage Here it Veum World 2019 in San Francisco. Thank you.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum, World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. This is The Cube. Live at VM World, 2019 times. Too many men with my co host Justin Warren, David Dante, John Ferrier. John Wall's John Troyer. Like a certain founding fonder, Alexander Hamilton, the Cube is going non stop coverage for the three days Habito. Welcome back to our program. Two of our Cube alumni's Lynn Lucas, who is the chief marketing officer of Cohee City. And she's brought along John White, who is the chief innovation officer at Expedient. Thank you both for joining us. >> Happy to be here. Happy 10 year anniversary to the cute >> Well, thank you so much. And you know, so many people we've known over the years. Actually, the first time I met John wait was I believe in this whole, you know, at VM World, you know, talk about what's going on. Eso You know, I always love talking to the service riders because it's been going through just a massive transformation, you know, all along on you, John, you've got a different title Since the last time I interviewed you, You been involved in the strategy You and I have gone toe cloud shows together and some of the other things they're so bring us up to speed as to, you know, expedient here at the show. And, uh, what brings you here with cohesive? >> Yes. Oh, yeah, thanks to your right. But I think it's probably five or six years ago. Maybe I asked too. You said, Hey, what do you know about the service provider community? Cause I wanted to kind of educate you because it was something that's been fairly new and expedience been in that industry for a long time. We were mainly in infrastructure of the service provider, man. The service providers are rounding on all that I t. Stuff that people need and ah, this VM world is a huge one for us. Last year we launched Enterprise Cloud, which is a product based on VM. Where's full softer to find stack And that was something we wanted to go to market with to give an alternative people, When you say Hey, I need to go to the cloud and you realize that okay. I really can't just take my APS and lift and shift and go there. There's another place for you that's a little a little more familiar. And as we see 20,000 people know VM were obviously that air here. So that's usually what what's usually happening in the Enterprise. So we're talking with those folks, and so we would launch that platform. We thought about everything differently. We were running virtualization since, 06 of seven, and we wanted to change everything back up platforms as well as needing things like scale out now, as were necessity at that point. So this VM worlds are coming out because we had, ah, release that last year. And now we have a lot of good customers to talk about on that platform. 12 months later. >> Yeah, well, Lynn, first of all, congratulations because, you know, I know John sits on customer counsels for some of these events. I've dug into a bunch of the networking pieces with him and actually was, you know, we spent a bunch of years. We went to a bunch of shows together and he was looking at the some of the various vendors and a bunch of the new startups and cohesive E is the one that you know really stepped up provided the solution that he was looking for. So it's been interesting to hear service fighters. You were usually the first ones that companies were talking to. But bring brings the cohesive story there. >> Yeah, and so were a super pleased and honored to have expedient working with Cohee City. And John has been instrumental in really providing a lot of direction to us on what his needs are and how to make the product even better for for him and the service provider community, it's a huge part of our go to market strategy. We believe that with the massive growth in the interest in hybrid and Justus John was saying, There's so many customers that really aren't equipped to deal with How do I move to ah hybrid cloud strategy, whether that before compliance reasons, whether that be geographical reasons under you've seen them all. And so this is something where we feel really thrilled to have the, um, where's cloud partner of the Year working with us and to help serve customers with the expedient enterprise Cloud platform. >> Congratulations on that team. And right when we first met five years ago Public cloud for VM wear And for most of the service bodies, it was the enemy, all right. It's like, Oh, my gosh. There, you know, you went toe Amazon reinvent and create a little bit of partnership. So give us the update on hybrid. What that means and how solutions like, Oh, he city, you know, help you provide services to your customer. >> Yeah, it's funny you mentioned. I mean, that's you would ask me, What are you doing here? What are you doing here? Because it was going out doing this research, seeing where the market was on containers on adoption of Claude practices. So we wanted to make sure that we were very open with all the different solutions that are out there. And that's been our strategy from the from the start. So building enterprise cloud was one thing we need to do to come to market with a platform like everybody else. But multi cloud is really where we have focused. And it's funny. I mean, when I when I first started coming to the M world, it was very product centric, you know, you had this product, you could do X with it. And here's the return that you would get at it. And when you're coming to the emerald now it's more about platforms. And that's really what I found most interesting with Cohee City when I first met Mohit, probably two and 1/2 3 years ago, was that he was focusing on the platform of data management. And that's really what the problem was. It wasn't now, specifically, it wasn't data protection. Specifically, it was What all can you do with that with that data management? And we're You know, we're spending a ton of time with Cohee City on. We were building multi Tennessee with them to them, be able to support that. And that's what we're delivering on now. So it's it's it's the scale out now's it's ah, data protection. And then we're taking those service is and then putting him in eight of us in azure or wherever it might be because it doesn't matter to us, because long term we want to care about the long term I t care and feeding and focus on that as our value prop instead of just actually which silo >> it lives in. Yeah, and right from the very beginning, I remember speaking to Kohei City very, very early on when it just sort of come out of stealth. And it was baked into into the product the idea of data management that it was going to be much more, much more than just data protection. So, what are you seeing now that we have a lot of years of product development has clearly gone into it since we first looked at it then. But what are you seeing? Customers using the platform for here in 2019? >> Well, we started a little bit more unique than most other customers. I think we talked about this, you know, throughout CO e city. And we actually started on a scale out now's platform s. So we have one of our clients homes dot com who? They're with us this week because they have a really interesting you. No need for this type of enterprise. Cloud there with us and they're talking about all the different benefits they received out. And they started actually with on the file side of things homes dot com, real estate, online real estate. So I think you know about how many images and how many fouls you have out there. We have 2.6 billion images right now running on the cohesive platform. That was 2.6 billion and a 30% annual growth rate. Yes. So the numbers are crazy. You can't put those on any other traditional now, as that's out there. Uh, so we used a he city first to get started there, and then the backups really were the icing on the cake. So last October, we built We started going out the Nats platform to handle those images. And if you actually go to homes dot com right now, it's being served fully out Enterprise cloud from a container and virtual machine layer and then on the back end from Cohee City. And they were using that to protect it as well. >> And I think that if I add on to that is really a testament to the, you know, the foundation that mo it built, which is a true distributed file system, Google like, in that sense. And I think correct me if I'm wrong, John. But you know, you then also saw while that benefit of a platform approach and not another silo for the backup and having co he city help solve the challenges for both files as well as data protection and then maybe one day in the future. Looking at some of the things that we're doing now that we're doing more security on running APS and things like that on the platform as that may be an extension for you, >> Yeah, that's that's definitely a big focus of our effort, the global d duplication that you get with CO he city. When you add all those files in all the different customers, we have all the different virtue machines. Ah, the ratios were hitting or just insane. And it's something we decided as a service provider that we we said, OK, this technology, we actually want to give that benefit back to the customer. And so when somebody buys data stores from us on the data production, they buy what they're actually consuming on the disk. So you could have 100 terabytes in all of your V EMS. If you only need one terabyte, that's all you're buying from us. And that's a lot of the power of that platform that we get with cohesive. >> Yeah. So, John, wanna help? They want you to help us understand the nuance of something. We're platform? Yeah. Has a little bit of new Monsanto. Little bit, a little loaded thing. GM was the platform. Cohesive is a platform. You use both of them. So just help us understand how cohesive Ian Veum wear and all those things that they go together. They're not, you know, competing against each other in as your architectural Or are they? They're >> not competing there two layers, In my opinion, where you have your primary stores really living in and the M R and secondary storage is everything else on Cohee City. Ah, what? The nice thing is, they did a lot of cool things to kind of marry the two together. Um, one of the one of the tools that we're using Aesthetic ahi city is called Instant on or instant Restore a Virtue machines so we can actually spin up a virtual machine almost instantaneously. It lives on the Coast City platform. Once it's rehydrated, then does a storage the emotion automatically into the V, m or environment. So we're able to do migration or if we had, You know, we have a bad ransomware attack and we need to restore 100 V EMS within a few minutes. We can instantly bring those back up in the cohesive platform and then move them to a production virtual environment once it's done. And that's something that we weren't able to do with our existing vendor. And that was something we needed to actually go and focus on because being in the healthcare space being in the compliance space, that's that's a big problem for us. >> Yeah, just add, I think that, um Vienna, where is clearly one of our most important partners. The very first area that mo it developed was data protection, for I am where, I would say, well north of 70 75% of our customers are protecting their Veum, where environments We have a very large customer that's protecting over 18,000 V EMS on Cohee City. So with the certifications that we have with V. C. D. And with the integrations, as you've mentioned with of you realize it's it's really it's a partnership. Andi think we're adding a lot of value to the customers that are building on V. M. where is >> very complimentary for sure. >> Yeah, it's been interesting that to see how customers choosing to go with a platform like like expedient because, as you mentioned earlier, stewed like five years ago, Cloud was the enemy. And but we're being told that on a public card is gonna take everything, and it's just gonna own all of the environment where is now? In 2019 we found that the story is actually much more complicated than that. Some of us probably believe that at the time I put my hand up is one of those that customers actually needed to live in multiple places. It's not a story of or it's a story of end, so you do need to be ableto have something which can work well with others on the same way we've got. We've got co, he's ity and V M. Where is it? Well, they're not really competing with each other. They work better together and particularly as customers scale, we find my any any kind of enterprise customer is header a genius, so you have to have solutions that give them options and that work together well with you have to play nicely with others. >> I think that's exactly right. And part of what we've done is built a software to find solution and to also give John expedient flexibility. How do you want to deploy for your customers? The solution. Is it in the, uh, the hyper scaler? Is it Hello, somewhere? Is that your own cloud? And so that's part of the advantage. I think all in one solution that then you can give your customers some flexibility as well as to how they want to consume the service as well. >> Absolutely meaning the flexibility And you mentioned software only, and are, you know, software or suffer to find that was something that was big for us. When we're looking for partnerships, we have a standardized hardware build that we want to use. And that was all built on Del. And it was something that, you know, we were able to work with obesity to get that standardized so we can continue to roll out. Excuse that we were most comfortable with. And they could just have the software layer on top. >> Yeah. So you've managed to do this successfully. You're going really well. Yeah. What's next? >> Well, um you know we have, you know, So in we ordered in October of last year. Right now we have six petabytes online enrolling. So that's that's great. You know, that's that's good to see. That's going to continue to grow at a pretty rapid rate. Data is something that obviously, we all know is never gonna shrink on. We're gonna continue to grow that with new customer acquisitions, and that's everything where we want to continue to go with this, Uh, this product specifically is on the data management side. The things that they're doing in Helios to start to get understanding and awareness in value out of that data that's sitting there is really, really important and exciting for us in the future. We deal what tonic compliance PC idea says hip. And we want to make sure that the data that we're storing inside of there will be compliant by those. So being able to write an application to see if the credit card numbers in a file or in a database by using the cozy platform that we brought us value. Same thing goes with a lot of the ransomware protection they're doing. So if you see a foul that gets encrypted, then I know. Okay, I have a problem. I better go look at that and give me a time stamped, Actually. Go on, restore from instead of actually trying toe, you know, pick around. And hopefully I find it when it before it was encrypted. So we're really excited about those opportunities is the future and seeing what data management can just bring to it. >> Well, Lynn, always a pleasure to catch up with you. Thank you so much for joining us again. And John, my friend, this is your six time on the program, actually gonna have a celebration in New England in a little over unveil for, ah, six s o right in New England. So for Justin Warren, I'm stupid him in. We love talking about sports here, and, uh, yeah, the Cuban way have the Niners and the Patriots for the team there. But as always, Thank you for watching the cue

>> live from San Francisco celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Well, good afternoon. And welcome back to San Francisco. Where Mosconi north along with David Dante, John Wall's You're watching our coverage here. Live on the Cuba Veum world. 2019 days. I've been over on the other set. I know you've been busy on this side as well. Show going. All right for you >> so far. Yeah, A lot of action going on over here. We had a pact Hellsing on this morning, Michael Dell, with this VM wear hat, we get Sanjay Putin downtown later. >> Yeah, yeah. Good light up. And that lineup continues. Great. Use the CEO Veritas. >> Great to be here. Very John, >> actually, just outside the Veritas Meadow here. Sponsored the this area. This is the meadow set. That >> nice to be here? Yeah, I didn't know >> that. All right, just first off, just give me your your idea of the vibe here. What you are. You're feeling >> what? I think there's a tremendous amount of energy. It's been a lot of fun to be here Obviously VM was talking about this hybrid multi cloud world, and Veritas is 100% supportive of that vision. We work with all the major cloud service providers, you know, eight of us. Google. Microsoft is or we share thousands of customers with the M, where some of the biggest customers, the most complicated customers in the world, where we provide availability and protection and insights for those customers has always >> been the ethos of veritas. When you go back to the early days of Veritas, essentially, it was the storage management, you know, the no hardware agenda, the sort of independent storage company, but pure software. >> That sounds. You >> know, years ago there was no cloud, but there were different platforms, and so that that that that culture has really migrated now into this multi cloud work world. Your thoughts on that >> absolutely look, you know, I'll give an example of a customer that we worked with closely with VM wear on, and that is Renault. America's Renault is Ah, big joint venture. They've got a huge ASAP installation 8000 users 40 terabytes, Big Net backup customer. They also use their products in for a scale and V. R P for availability and D r. And they work with us because we are hardware agnostic. They looked at us against the other competitors, and we're hardware agnostic. And because of that where we came in its 60% lower TCO than those other providers. So we that hardware agnostic approach works really well. You were >> Just touch it on this great little bit when you said, You know whether Tiger, whether it's multi, whether it's private, whatever it is, you know we're here to provide solutions. The fact that this stuff is hard to figure out and really kind of boggle the mind a bit, it's very complex. Um, how much of an inhibitor is that? In terms of what you're hearing from clients and in terms of their progress and and their decision making >> well, let me explain where we sit. And we are the leader in enterprise data protection, availability and insights. We work with the largest, most complex, most high route, highly regulated and most demanding customers on the planet. 99 of the Fortune 100 are customers of Veritas. 10 of the top 10 tell coast 10 of the top 10 healthcare companies and 10 of the top 10 financial institutions. I spend about 50% of my time talking to these customers, so we learn a lot. And here the four big challenges they're facing first is the explosion of data. Data is just growing so fast, Gardner estimates will be 175 Zita bytes of data in 2025. If you cram that in, iPhones will take 2.6 trillion iPhones and go to the sun and back, right? It's an enormous amount of data. Second, they're worried about Ransomware. It's not a question off if you'll be attacked. It's when you'll be attacked. Look at what's happening in Texas right now with the 22 municipalities dealing with that. What you want in that case is a resilient infrastructure. You wanna be terrible to restore from a really good backup copy of data. Third, they want the hybrid multi cloud world, just like Pak Gil Singer has been talking about. That's what customers want, but they want to be able to protect their data wherever it is, make it highly available and get insights in the data wherever it's located. And then finally, they're dealing with this massive growth in government regulations around the world because of this concern about privacy. I was in Australia a few weeks ago and one of our customers she was telling me that she deals with 27 different regulatory environments. Another customer was saying the California Privacy Act will be the death of him. And he's based in St Louis, right? So our strategy is focused on taking away the complexity and helping the largest companies in the world deal with these challenges. And that's why we introduce the enterprise. Data Service is platform, and that's why we're here. VM world Talking >> about Greg. Let's unpack some of those, Asai said. Veritas kind of created a market way back when and now you see come full circle, you got multi cloud. You have a lot of new entrance talking about data management. That's it's always been your play, but you came to the king of the Hell's. Everybody wants a piece of your hide, so that's kind of interesting, But but data growth. So let's let's start there. So it used to be data was, ah, liability. Now it's becoming an asset. So what? What your customers saying about sort of data is something that needs to be managed, needs to be done cost effectively and efficiently versus getting more value on data. And what's Veritas is sort of perspective. >> They're really trying to get insights in their data. Okay. And, uh, that's why we acquired a company called Apt Are. So when I This is my second time of Veritas. I was here from 2003 to 2010 rejoined the company of 2018. I talked to a lot of customers. I've found that their infrastructure was so complex that storage infrastructure so complex the companies were having a hard time figuring out anything about their data. So they're having the hardest time just answering some fundamental questions that boards were asking. Boards are saying because of the ransomware threat. Is all our data protected? Is it backed up? Are all our applications backed up and protected and customers could not answer that question. On the other hand, they also were backing up some data 678 times wasting storage. What apt are does, and it's really amazing. I recommend seeing a demo of that. If you get a chance, it pulls information from Santa raise network file systems, virtual machines, uh, san networking and all data protection applications to get a complete picture of what's happening with your data. And that is one example off what customers really want. >> Okay, so then that kind of leads to the second point, which is ransomware now. Part of part of that is analytics and understanding what's going on in the system as well. So but it's a relatively new concept, right? And ransom. Where is the last couple of years? We've really started to see it escalate. How does Veritas help address that problem? And does apt our play a role there? >> Well, Veritas, it just helps it. Cos address that problem because veritas helps create a resilient infrastructure. Okay, the bad guys are going to get in spear. Phishing works. You know, you you are going to find some employees were gonna click on a link, and the malware is going to get in so all you can do to protect you ultimately have tohave a good backup copies so you can restore at scale and quickly. And so there's been a lot of focus from these large enterprises on restoring at scale very quickly after ransom or attack, it's you're not beholden. You can't be extorted by the ransom or >> the third piece was hybrid. And of course, that leads to a kind of hybrid multi cloud. Let's let's put that category out there now. I've been kind of skeptical on hybrid multi cloud from an application perspective in other words, the vision that you can run any app anywhere in the world without having a retest Rica pile. I've been skeptical that, but the one area that I'm not skeptical and the courage with is data protection because I think actually, you can have a consistent data protection model across your on Prem different on prams, different clouds, because you know you're partnering with all the different cloud cos you obviously have expertise in on premise. So so talk about your approach, their philosophy and maybe any offering. >> Well, this is really what sets us apart. We have been around for 25 years, 2000 patents. We protect everything. 500 different sources of data 150 different targets, 60 different cloud service providers, you know, we compete with two categories of players. We compete with the newcomers, and they only they will only protect your most current technology. They don't go back. We've been around for 25 years. We protect everything, right? We also can't compete with the conglomerates, Okay? In their case, they're not focused. They're trying to do everything. All we do is availability, protection and insights. And that's why we've been in Gardner M Q 13 times and where the market share leader also absolutely >> touch me. Someone Dave was saying about the application side of this. I mean, just your thoughts about, you know, the kinds of concerns the day raises. I mean, it is not alone in that respect. I mean, there are general concerns here, right about whether that that'll fly. What do you think? In terms, >> I think the vision is spot on and like, oh, visions, it takes a while to get to. But I think what VM wears done recently in the acquisition, there've been basically trying to make the control plane for compute okay, and their acquisition of carbon, black and pivotal add to that control plane we're gonna be We are the control plane for data protection. I mean, that's that's the way our customers rely on, >> but that makes sense to me. So I think I feel like the multi cloud vision is very aspirational today, and I think it's gonna be really hard to get there without homogeneous infrastructure. And that's why you see things like Outpost to see the Oracle has clouded customer. You've got Azure Stack. So and I think it's gonna be a multi vendor world. However I do think is it relates the data protection you can set a standard and safe. We were going to standardize on Veritas. So one of us So I think that it's it's achievable. So that was my point there. The last one was was regulations. Do you think GDP are will be a sort of a framework globally body of customers seeing there? >> Well, they're dealing with more than GDP are like I talked about that one customer, 27 different regulatory environments and the challenge there is. How do you deal with that when you don't know what you have in terms of data, the 50% of data is what we call dark data. You don't know anything about right, so you need help classifying it, understanding and getting insight into that data, and that's what we can help >> our customers. But howdy, howdy, dildo. In that environment, I mean, I mean, a day raises the point. This is obvious. A swell that mean you cite California right, which is somewhat infamous for its own regulatory mindset. I mean, how do you exist? What? The United States has privacy concerns and Congress can address it, and various federal agencies could do the same Europe. Obviously we talked about now Australia. Now here. Now there you get this Balkan I system that has no consistency, no framework. And so how do you operate on a global scale? >> A. Mentally. It relies on classifying that data right. Understanding what's where and what do you have is a P I. I personally identifiable information. Is it information that's intellectual property? What kind of data you have once you have that insight, which is what we provide, you can layer on top of the regulatory Is that compliance? >> Star I P. Is that Veritas i p. A blender? >> It's a blend of avatar and veritas I p. We have a product called Info Studio that helps toe provide that now Remember one of the things that are net backup product has is a catalogue of data. So we know where the data is primary to secondary storage, and we have all the versions of that data. And then we can run analytics against the secondary storage and not hit the primary systems. Right? So we're out of band to the primary systems, and that turns out to be very valuable in the state's a >> question. The catalog. I can't do this without a catalogue in the enough to geek out here a little bit, but but you've got a little bit when you bring in multi clouds. Other clouds. How do you incorporate you know that knowledge into your catalog? >> Yeah. Art, art, technology work Idol of works across multiple clouds. So we work with 60 different Cloud service providers. There's three big ones represented here today. Microsoft, AWS and Google. We work very closely with all three, and >> that's because you do the engineering at the A P. I level. Our engineering teams work very, very closely together. Okay, um, so let's talk about competition a little bit. The markets heated up. It's great. It's good to see all this VC money floating in. Everybody I said wants a piece of your hide. Why Veritas? >> Well, I explained that, you know, we are the leader in enterprise, data protection, availability and insights. There are some newcomers. They just will support you on your current technology. They don't support the infrastructure you've had for many years. If your large complicated enterprise you have layers of technology, we support all that with VIN amount for 25 years against, the big conglomerates were completely focused. And that's why we're the leader, according to Gartner, in the Leader's Quadrant 13 years >> now. And just as we close up you talked about, you brought up the case in Texas, about 22 municipalities. You do a lot of public sector work states, federal government ever. It's just what is the difference of different animal between public and private and and what you need to do in terms of providing that >> we're struggling with the same challenge. In fact, we work with some of the largest government agencies in the world, and they're struggling with exactly the same challenge. They also want leverage the public cloud. They're worried about ransom where you know they're dealing with data growth. All of these are challenges to them. And that's the, uh So these are common challenges we're addressing. Our strategy is to help our customers with these challenges so they can focus on the value of data >> 18 months in. You seem pumped up. Does having a great time team fired up >> way. Get that right. Great. But you're okay with big geeking out to write a very good thanks for the time You've run out of time. 40 Niners next time. All right. Greg Hughes joining us from Veritas. Back with more Veum, World 2019 right here on the Cube. >> Thank you.