>>We're back at Supercomputing 22 in Dallas, winding down day four of this conference. I'm Paul Gillan, my co-host Dave Nicholson. We are talking, we've been talking super computing all week and you hear a lot about what's going on in the United States, what's going on in China, Japan. What we haven't talked a lot about is what's going on in Europe and did you know that two of the top five supercomputers in the world are actually from European countries? Well, our guest has a lot to do with that. Florian, bearish, I hope I pronounce that correctly. My German is, German is not. My strength is the operations director for price, ais, S B L. And let's start with that. What is price? >>So, hello and thank you for the invitation. I'm Flon and Price is a partnership for Advanced Computing in Europe. It's a non-profit association with the seat in Brussels in Belgium. And we have 24 members. These are representatives from different European countries dealing with high performance computing in at their place. And we, so far, we provided the resources for our European research communities. But this changed in the last year, this oral HPC joint undertaking who put a lot of funding in high performance computing and co-funded five PET scale and three preis scale systems. And two of the preis scale systems. You mentioned already, this is Lumi and Finland and Leonardo in Bologna in Italy were in the place for and three and four at the top 500 at least. >>So why is it important that Europe be in the top list of supercomputer makers? >>I think Europe needs to keep pace with the rest of the world. And simulation science is a key technology for the society. And we saw this very recently with a pandemic, with a covid. We were able to help the research communities to find very quickly vaccines and to understand how the virus spread around the world. And all this knowledge is important to serve the society. Or another example is climate change. Yeah. With these new systems, we will be able to predict more precise the changes in the future. So the more compute power you have, the better the smaller the grid and there is resolution you can choose and the lower the error will be for the future. So these are, I think with these systems, the big or challenges we face can be addressed. This is the climate change, energy, food supply, security. >>Who are your members? Do they come from businesses? Do they come from research, from government? All of the >>Above. Yeah. Our, our members are public organization, universities, research centers, compute sites as a data centers, but But public institutions. Yeah. And we provide this services for free via peer review process with excellence as the most important criteria to the research community for free. >>So 40 years ago when, when the idea of an eu, and maybe I'm getting the dates a little bit wrong, when it was just an idea and the idea of a common currency. Yes. Reducing friction between, between borders to create a trading zone. Yes. There was a lot of focus there. Fast forward to today, would you say that these efforts in supercomputing, would they be possible if there were not an EU super structure? >>No, I would say this would not be possible in this extent. I think when though, but though European initiatives are, are needed and the European Commission is supporting these initiatives very well. And before praise, for instance 2008, there were research centers and data centers operating high performance computing systems, but they were not talking to each other. So it was isolated praise created community of operation sites and it facilitated the exchange between them and also enabled to align investments and to, to get the most out of the available funding. And also at this time, and still today for one single country in Europe, it's very hard to provide all the different architectures needed for all the different kind of research communities and applications. If you want to, to offer always the latest technologies, though this is really hardly possible. So with this joint action and opening the resources for other research groups from other countries, you, we, we were able to, yeah, get access to the latest technology for different communities at any given time though. And >>So, so the fact that the two systems that you mentioned are physically located in Finland and in Italy, if you were to walk into one of those facilities and meet the people that are there, they're not just fins in Finland and Italians in Italy. Yeah. This is, this is very much a European effort. So this, this is true. So, so in this, in that sense, the geography is sort of abstracted. Yeah. And the issues of sovereignty that make might take place in in the private sector don't exist or are there, are there issues with, can any, what are the requirements for a researcher to have access to a system in Finland versus a system in Italy? If you've got a EU passport, Hmm. Are you good to go? >>I think you are good to go though. But EU passport, it's now it becomes complicated and political. It's, it's very much, if we talk about the recent systems, well first, let me start a praise. Praise was inclusive and there was no any constraints as even we had users from US, Australia, we wanted just to support excellence in science. And we did not look at the nationality of the organization, of the PI and and so on. There were quotas, but these quotas were very generously interpreted. So, and if so, now with our HPC joint undertaking, it's a question from what European funds, these systems were procured and if a country or being country are associated to this funding, the researchers also have access to these systems. And this addresses basically UK and and Switzerland, which are not in the European Union, but they were as created to the Horizon 2020 research framework. And though they could can access the systems now available, Lumi and Leono and the Petascale system as well. How this will develop in the future, I don't know. It depends to which research framework they will be associated or not. >>What are the outputs of your work at price? Are they reference designs? Is it actual semiconductor hardware? Is it the research? What do you produce? >>So the, the application we run or the simulation we run cover all different scientific domains. So it's, it's science, it's, but also we have industrial let projects with more application oriented targets. Aerodynamics for instance, for cars or planes or something like this. But also fundamental science like the physical elementary physics particles for instance or climate change, biology, drug design, protein costa, all these >>Things. Can businesses be involved in what you do? Can they purchase your, your research? Do they contribute to their, I'm sure, I'm sure there are many technology firms in Europe that would like to be involved. >>So this involving industry though our calls are open and is, if they want to do open r and d, they are invited to submit also proposals. They will be evaluated and if this is qualifying, they will get the access and they can do their jobs and simulations. It's a little bit more tricky if it's in production, if they use these resources for their business and do not publish the results. They are some, well, probably more sites who, who are able to deal with these requests. Some are more dominant than others, but this is on a smaller scale, definitely. Yeah. >>What does the future hold? Are you planning to, are there other countries who will be joining the effort, other institutions? Do you plan to expand your, your scope >>Well, or I think or HPC joint undertaking with 36 member states is quite, covers already even more than Europe. And yeah, clearly if, if there are other states interest interested to join that there is no limitation. Although the focus lies on European area and on union. >>When, when you interact with colleagues from North America, do you, do you feel that there is a sort of European flavor to supercomputing that is different or are we so globally entwined? No. >>So research is not national, it's not European, it's international. This is also clearly very clear and I can, so we have a longstanding collaboration with our US colleagues and also with Chap and South Africa and Canada. And when Covid hit the world, we were able within two weeks to establish regular seminars inviting US and European colleagues to talk to to other, to each other and exchange the results and find new collaboration and to boost the research activities. So, and I have other examples as well. So when we, we already did the joint calls US exceed and in Europe praise and it was a very interesting experience. So we received applications from different communities and we decided that we will review this on our side, on European, with European experts and US did it in US with their experts. And you can guess what the result was at the meeting when we compared our results, it was matching one by one. It was exactly the same. Recite >>That it, it's, it's refreshing to hear a story of global collaboration. Yeah. Where people are getting along and making meaningful progress. >>I have to mention you, I have to to point out, you did not mention China as a country you were collaborating with. Is that by, is that intentional? >>Well, with China, definitely we have less links and collaborations also. It's also existing. There, there was initiative to look at the development of the technologies and the group meet on a regular basis. And there, there also Chinese colleagues involved. It's on a lower level, >>Yes, but is is the con conversations are occurring. We're out of time. Florian be operations director of price, European Super Computing collaborative. Thank you so much for being with us. I'm always impressed when people come on the cube and submit to an interview in a language that is not their first language. Yeah, >>Absolutely. >>Brave to do that. Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. We'll be right back after this break from Supercomputing 22 in Dallas.

>>From around the globe. It's the Cube covering data citizens 21 brought to you by culebra. Hello everyone john walls here as we continue our cube conversations here as part of Data citizens 21 the conference ongoing caliber at the heart of that really at the heart of data these days and helping companies and corporations make sense. All of those data chaos that they're dealing with, trying to provide new insights, new analyses being a lot more efficient and effective with your data. That's what culebra is all about and their founder and their Chief data Citizen if you will stand christians joins us today and stan I love that title. Chief Data Citizen. What is that all about? What does that mean? >>Hey john thanks for having me over and hopefully we'll get to the point where the chief data citizen titlists cleaves to you. Thanks by the way for giving us the opportunity to speak a little bit about what we're doing with our Chief Data Citizen. Um we started the community, the company about 13 years ago, uh 2008 and over those years as a founder, I've worn many different hats from product presales to partnerships and a bunch of other things. But ultimately the company reaches a certain point, a certain size where systems and processes become absolutely necessary if you want to scale further for us. This is the moment in time when we said, okay, we probably need a data office right now ourselves, something that we've seen with many of our customers. So he said, okay, let me figure out how to lead our own data office and figure out how we can get value out of data using our own software at Clear Bright Self. And that's where it achieved. That a citizen role comes in on friday evening. We like to call that, drinking our own champagne monday morning, you know, eating our own dog food. But essentially um this is what we help our customers do build out the offices. So we're doing this ourselves now when we're very hands on. So there's a lot of things we're learning again, just like our customers do. And for me at culebra, this means that I'm responsible as achieved data citizen for our overall data strategy, which talks a lot about data products as well as our data infrastructure, which is needed to power data problems now because we're doing this in the company and also doing this in a way that is helpful to our customers. Were also figuring out how do we translate the learning that we have ourselves and give them back to our customers, to our partners, to the broader ecosystem as a whole. And that's why uh if you summarize the strategy, I like the sometimes refer to it as Data office 2025, it's 2025. What is the data office looked like by then? And we recommend to our customers also have that forward looking view just as well. So if I summarize the the answer a little bit it's very similar to achieve their officer role but because it has the external evangelization component helping other data leaders we like to refer to it as the chief data scientist. >>Yeah that that kind of uh you talk about evangelizing obviously with that that you're talking about certain kinds of responsibilities and obligations and when I think of citizenship in general I think about privileges and rights and about national citizenship. You're talking about data citizenship. So I assume that with that you're talking about appropriate behaviors and the most uh well defined behaviors and kind of keep it between the lanes basically. Is that is that how you look at being a data citizen. And if not how would you describe that to a client about being a data citizen? >>It's a very good point as a citizen. You have the rights and responsibilities and the same is exactly true for a day to citizens. For us, starting with what it is right for us. The data citizen is somebody who uses data to do their job. And we've purposely made that definition very broad because today we believe that everyone in some way uses data, do their job. You know, data universal. It's critical to business processes and its importance is only increasing and we want all the data citizens to have appropriate access to data and and the ability to do stuff with data but also to do that in the right way. And if you think about it, this is not just something that applies to you and your job but also extends beyond the workplace because as a data citizen, you're also a human being. Of course. So the way you do data at home with your friends and family, all of this becomes important as well. Uh and we like to think about it as informed privacy. Us data citizens who think about trust in data all the time because ultimately everybody's talking today about data as an asset and data is the new gold and the new oil and the new soil. And there is a ton of value uh data but it's not just organizations themselves to see this. It's also the bad actors out there were reading a lot more about data breaches for example. So ultimately there is no value without rescue. Uh so as the data citizen you can achieve value but you also have to think about how do I avoid these risks? And as an organization, if you manage to combine both of those, that's when you can get the maximum value out of data in a trusted manner. >>Yeah, I think this is pretty interesting approach that you've taken here because obviously there are processes with regard to data, right? I mean you know that's that's pretty clear but there are there's a culture that you're talking about here that not only are we going to have an operational plan for how we do this certain activity and how we're going to uh analyze here, input here action uh perform action on that whatever. But we're gonna have a mindset or an approach mentally that we want our company to embrace. So if you would walk me through that process a little bit in terms of creating that kind of culture which is very different then kind of the X's and oh's and the technical side of things. >>Yeah, that's I think where organizations face the biggest challenge because you know, maybe they're hiring the best, most unique data scientists in the world, but it's not about what that individual can do, right? It's about what the combination of data citizens across the organization can do. And I think there it starts first by thinking as an individual about universal goal Golden rule, treat others as you would want to be treated yourself right the way you would ethically use data at your job. Think about that. There's other people and other companies who you would want to do the same thing. Um now from our experience and our own data office at cordoba as well as what we see with our customers, a lot of that personal responsibility, which is where culture starts, starts with data literacy and you know, we talked a little bit about Planet Rock and small statues in brussels Belgium where I'm from. But essentially um here we speak a couple of languages in Belgium and for organizations for individuals, Data literacy is very similar. You know, you're able to read and write, which are pretty essential for any job today. And so we want all data citizens to also be able to speak and read and write data fluently if I if I can express it this way. And one of the key ways of getting that done and establishing that culture around data uh is lies with the one who leads data in the organization, the Chief Petty Officer or however the roll is called. They play a very important role in this. Um, the comparison maybe that I always make there is think about other assets in your organization. You know, you're you're organized for the money asset for the talent assets with HR and a bunch of other assets. So let's talk about the money asset for a little bit, right? You have a finance department, you have a chief financial officer. And obviously their responsibility is around managing that money asset, but it's also around making others in the organization think about that money asset and they do that through established processes and responsibilities like budgeting and planning, but also ultimately to the individual where, you know, through expense sheets that we all off so much they make you think about money. So if the CFO makes everyone in the company thinks about think about money, that data officer or the data lead has to think has to make everyone think uh in the company about data as a as it just as well and and those rights those responsibilities um in that culture, they also change right today. They're set this and this way because of privacy and policy X. And Y. And Z. But tomorrow for example as with the european union's new regulation around the eye, there's a bunch of new responsibilities you have to think about. >>Mhm. You know you mentioned security and about value and risk which is certainly um they are part and parcel right? If I have something important, I gotta protect it because somebody else might want to um to create some damage, some harm uh and and steal my value basically. Well that's what's happening as you point out in the data world these days. So so what kind of work are you doing in that regard in terms of reinforcing the importance of security, culture, privacy culture, you know this kind of protective culture within an organization so that everybody fully understands the risks. But also the huge upsides if you do enforce this responsibility and these good behaviors that that obviously the company can gain from and then provide value to their client base. So how do you reinforce that within your clients to spread that culture if you will within their organizations? >>Um spreading a culture is not always an easy thing. Um especially a lot of organizations think about the value around data but to your point, not always about the risks that come associated with it sometimes just because they don't know about it yet. Right? There's new architecture is that come into play like the clouds and that comes with a whole bunch of new risk. That's why one of the things that we recommend always to our uh customers and to data officers and our customers organizations is that next to establishing that that data literacy, for example, and working on data products is that they also partners strongly with other leaders in their organization. On the one hand, for example, the legal uh folks, where typically you find the aspects around privacy and on the other hand, um the information security folks, because if you're building up a sort of map of your data, look at it like a castle, right that you're trying to protect. Uh if you don't have a map of your castle with the strong points and weak points and you know, where people can build, dig a hole under your wall or what have you, then it's very hard to defend. So you have to be able to get a map of your data. A data map if you will know what data is out there with being used by and and why and how and then you want to prioritize that data which is the most important, what are the most important uses and put the appropriate protections and controls in place. Um and it's fundamental that you do that together with your legal and information security partners because you may have as a data leader you may have the data module data expertise, but there's a bunch of other things that come into play when you're trying to protect, not just the data but really your company on its data as a whole. >>You know you were talking about 2025 a little bit ago and I think good for you. That's quite a crystal ball that you have you know looking uh with the headlights that far down the road. But I know you have to be you know that kind of progressive thinking is very important. What do you see in the long term for number one? You're you're kind of position as a chief data citizen if you will. And then the role of the chief data officer which you think is kind of migrating toward that citizenship if you will. So maybe put on those long term vision uh goggles of yours again and and tell me what do you see as far as these evolving roles and and these new responsibilities for people who are ceos these days? >>Um well 2025 is closer than we think right? And obviously uh my crystal ball is as Fuzzy as everyone else's but there's a few things that trends that you can easily identify and that we've seen by doing this for so long at culebra. Um and one is the push around data I think last year. Um the years 2020, 2020 words uh sort of Covid became the executive director of digitalization forced everyone to think more about digital. And I expect that to continue. Right. So that's an important aspect. The second important aspect that I expect to continue for the next couple of years, easily. 2025 is the whole movement to the cloud. So those cloud native architecture to become important as well as the, you know, preparing your data around and preparing your false, he's around it, et cetera. I also expect that privacy regulations will continue to increase as well as the need to protect your data assets. Um And I expect that a lot of achieved that officers will also be very busy building out those data products. So if you if you think that that trend then okay, data products are getting more important for t data officers, then um data quality is something that's increasingly important today to get right otherwise becomes a garbage in garbage out kind of situation where your data products are being fed bad food and ultimately their their outcomes are very tricky. So for us, for the chief data officers, Um I think there was about one of them in 2002. Um and then in 2019 ISH, let's say there were around 10,000. So there's there's plenty of upside to go for the chief data officers, there's plenty of roles like that needed across the world. Um and they've also evolved in in responsibility and I expect that their position, you know, it it is really a sea level position today in most organizations expect that that trend will also to continue to grow. But ultimately, those achieved that officers have to think about the business, right? Not just the defensive and offensive positions around data like policies and regulations, but also the support for businesses who are today shifting very fast and we'll continue to uh to digital. So those Tv officers will be seen as heroes, especially when they can build out a factory of data products that really supports the business. Um, but at the same time, they have to figure out how to um reach and always branch to their technical counterparts because you cannot build that factory of data products in my mind, at least without the proper infrastructure. And that's where your technical teams come in. And then obviously the partnerships with your video and information security folks, of course. >>Well heroes. Everybody wants to be the hero. And I know that uh you painted a pretty clear path right now as far as the Chief data officer is concerned and their importance and the value to companies down the road stan. We thank you very much for the time today and for the insight and wish you continued success at the conference. Thank you very much. >>Thank you very much. Have a nice day healthy. >>Thank you very much Dan Christians joining us talking about chief data citizenship if you will as part of data citizens 21. The conference being put on by caliber. I'm John Wall's thanks for joining us here on the Cube. >>Mhm.

>> - From around the globe, it's the cube covering data citizens, 21 brought to you by Collibra. >> Hello, everyone, John Walls here, As we continue our cube conversations here as part of data citizens, 21, the conference ongoing. Collibra at the heart of that, really at the heart of data these days and helping companies and corporations make sense. Although this data chaos that they're dealing with, trying to provide new insights, new analysis being a lot more efficient and effective with your data. That's what Collibra is all about. And their founder and their chief data citizen, if you will, Stan Christiaens joins us today. And Stan, I love that title, chief data citizen. What does that all about? What does that mean? >> Hey John, thanks for having me over. And hopefully we'll get to a point where the chief data citizen Titelist cleaves to you. Thanks by the way, for giving us the opportunity to speak a little bit about what we're doing with our chief data citizen. We started the company about 13 years ago, 2008. And over those years, as a founder I've worn many different hats from product to pre-sales to partnerships and a bunch of obvious things. But ultimately the company reaches a certain point a certain size where systems and processes become absolutely necessary if you want to scale further. And for us, this is the moment in time where we said, okay we probably need a data office right now ourselves, something that we've seen with many of our customers. So we said, okay, let me figure out how to lead our own data office and figured out how we can get value out of data using our own software at Collibra itself. And that's where the chief data citizen role comes in. On Friday evening, we like to call that drinking our own champagne moment morning, either eating our own dog food but, essentially this is what we help our customers do, build out the data offices. So we're doing this ourselves now, when we're very hands-on. So there's a lot of things that we're learning, again just like our customers do. And for me, at Collibra, this means that I'm responsible as a chief data citizen for our overall data strategy, which talks a lot about data products, as well as our data infrastructure, which is needed to power data products. Now, because we're doing this in the company and also doing this in a way that is helpful to our customers. We're also figuring out how do we translate the learnings that we have ourselves and give them back to our customers, to our partners, to the broader ecosystem as a whole. And that's why if you summarize the strategy, I like to sometimes refer to it as data office 2025, it's 2025. What is the data office look like by then? And we recommend to our customers to also have that forward looking view just as well. So if I summarize the, the answer a little bit and it's fairly similar to achieve that officer role but, because it has the external evangelization component, helping other data leaders, we like to refer to it as the chief data citizens. >> Yeah, and that, that kind of, you talked about evangelizing, obviously with that, that you're talking about certain kinds of responsibilities and obligations. And I, when I think of citizenship in general I think about privileges and rights and you know, about national citizenship. You're talking about data citizenship, So I assume that with that you're talking about appropriate behaviors and the most well-defined behaviors, and kind of keeping it between the lanes basically. Is that, is that how you look at being a data citizen or, and if not, how would you describe that to a client about being a data citizen? >> It's a very good point, as a citizen you have rights and responsibilities, and the same is exactly true for a data citizen. For us, starting with what it is, right for us, A data citizen is somebody who uses data to do their job. And we've purposely made that definition very broad because today we believe that everyone in some way uses data to do their job. You know, data is universal. It's critical to business processes and it's importance is only increasing. And we want all the data citizens to have appropriate access to data and the ability to do stuff with data but, also to do that in the right way. And if you think about it this is not just something that applies to you in your job but, also extends beyond the workplace because as a data citizen, you're also a human being, of course. So, the way you do data at home with your friends and family, all of this becomes important as well. And we like to think about it as informed privacy aware, data citizens should think about trust in data all the time, because ultimately everybody's talking today about data as an asset, and data is the new gold, and the new oil, and the new soil, and there is a ton of value in data but, as much as organizations themselves to see this, it's also the bad actors out there. We're reading a lot more about data breaches, for example. So, ultimately there's no value without risk. So, as a data citizen, you can achieve a value but, you also have to think about, how do I avoid these risks, and as an organization, if you manage to combine both of those, that's when you can get the maximum value out of data in a trusted manner. >> Yeah, I think this is pretty, an interesting approach that you've taken here because obviously there there are processes with regard to data, right? I mean, the, you know, that that's pretty clear but, there are also, there's a culture that you're talking about here that, that not only are we going to have an operational plan for how we do this certain activity and how we're going to analyze here, input here, action, or perform action on that, whatever but we're going to have a mindset or an approach mentally that we want our company to embrace. So, if you would walk me through that process a little bit in terms of creating that kind of culture, which is very different than kind of the X's and O's and the technical side of things. >> Yeah. That's I think when organizations face the biggest challenge, because, you know maybe they're hiding the best most unique data scientists in the world but, it's not about what that individual can do, right? It's about what the combination of data citizens across the organization can do. And I think it starts first by thinking as an individual about universal goal, golden rule, treat others as you would want to be treated yourself, right? The way you would ethically use data at your job. Think about that, There's other people at other companies, who you would want to do the same thing. Now, from our experience, in our own data office at Collibra, as well as what we see with our customers. A lot of that personal responsibility which is where culture starts, starts with data literacy. And, you know, we talked a little bit about Plymouth rock and the small statues in Brussels Belgium, where I'm from but, essentially here we speak a couple of languages in Belgium. And for organizations, for individuals data literacy is very similar. You know, you're able to read and write which are pretty essential for any job today. And so we want all data citizens to also be able to speak and read and write data fluently. If I, if I can express it this way. And one of the key ways of getting that done and establishing that culture around data, lies with the one who leads data in the organization, the chief data officer, or however the role is called. They play a very important role in this. In comparison, maybe that I always make there is think about other assets in your organization. You know, you're organized for the money assets, for the talent assets, with HR and a bunch of other assets. So let's talk about the, the money assets for a little bit, right? You have a finance department, you have a chief financial officer, and obviously their responsibility is around managing that money asset. But it's also around making others in the organization think about that money. And they do that through established processes and responsibilities like budgeting and planning but, also ultimately to the individual where, you know, through expense sheets that we all love so much, they make you think about money. So, if the CFO makes everyone in the company thinks about think about money, that data officer, or the data lead, has to think, has to make everyone think in the company about data assets, asset, just as well. And those rights, those responsibilities in that culture, they also change, right? Today, they're set this and this way because of privacy and policy X and Y and Z. But tomorrow, for example, as, as with the European union's new regulation around BI, there's a bunch of new responsibilities you'll have to think about. >> You mentioned security and about value and risk, which is certainly, they are part and parcel, right? If I have something important I've got to protect it because somebody else might want to, to create some damage, some harm and and steal my value, basically when that's, what's happening as you point out in the data world these days. So, so what kind of work are you doing in that regard in terms of reinforcing the importance of security culture, privacy culture, you know, this kind of protective culture within an organization so that everybody fully understands, you know, the risks but, also the huge upsides. If you do enforce this responsibility and these good behaviors that that obviously the company can gain from, and then provide value to their client base. So how do you reinforce that within your clients to spread that culture, if you will, within their organizations? >> Spreading a culture is not always an easy thing, And especially a lot of organizations think about the value around data, but to your point, not always about the risks that come associated with it. Sometimes just because they don't know about it yet, right, there's new architectures that come into play, like the clouds and that comes with a whole bunch of new risks. That, that's why one of the things that we recommend always to our customers and to data officers in our customer's organizations, is that next to establishing that, that data literacy, for example, and working on data products is that they also partner strongly with other leaders in their organization. On the one hand, for example, the legal folks, where typically you find the the aspects around privacy and on the other hand, the information security folks, because if you're building up sort of map of your data, look at it like a castle, right, that you're trying to protect. If you don't have a map of your castle, with the strong points and the weak points, and you know where people can build, dig a hole under your wall or what have you, then it's very hard to defend. So, you have to be able to get a map of your data, a data map if you will, know what data is out there. Who its being used by, and why and how, and then you want to prioritize that data, which is the most important what are the most important uses and put the appropriate protections and controls in place. And it's fundamental that you do that together with your legal and information security partners because you may have as a data lead that you may have the data knowledge, the data expertise but, there's a bunch of other things that come into play when you're trying to protect, not just the data but, really your company on its data as a whole. >> No, you Were talking about 2025 a little bit ago, and I thought good for you, that's quite a crystal ball that you have it, you know looking to, you know, with the headlights that far down the road, but I know you have to be, you know that kind of progressive thinking is very important. What do you see in, in the long-term for number one, your kind of position as a chief data citizen, if you will, and then the role of the chief data officer, which you think is kind of migrating toward that citizenship, if you will. So, maybe put on those long-term vision goggles of yours again, and tell me, what do you see as far as these evolving roles and, and these new responsibilities for people who are CEOs these days? >> Well, 2025 is closer than we think right? Then obviously, my crystal ball is as fuzzy as everyone else's but, there's a few things, that trends that you can easily identify and that we've seen by doing this for so long at Collibra. And one is the, the push around data. I think last year, the years, 2020,` where sort of COVID became the executive director of digitalization. Forced everyone to think more about digital, and I expect that to continue. So, that's an important aspect. The second important aspect that I expect to continue for the next couple of years, easily in 2025 is the whole movement to the cloud. So these cloud native architectures become important, as well as the, you know, preparing your data around it, preparing your policies around it, etc.. I also expect that privacy regulations will continue to increase as well as the needs to protect your data assets. And I expected a lot of key data officers will also be very busy building out those data products. So if you, if you take that that trend then, okay data products are getting more important for key data officer's, then data quality is something that's increasingly important today to get right, otherwise, becomes a garbage in garbage out kind of situation, where your data products are being fed bad foods and ultimately their outcomes aren't very clear. So for us, for the chief data officers, I think it was about one of them in 2002, and then 2019 ish, let's say there were 10,000. So there's plenty of upsides for the chief data officer there's plenty of roles like that needed across the world. And they've also evolved in, in responsibility. And I expect that their position, you know, as it it is really a C-level position today in most organizations. Expect that, that trend will also continue to grow. But ultimately those chief data officers have to think about the business, right? Not just the defensive and offensive positions around data, like almost policies and regulations but, also the support for businesses who are today, shifting very fast and will continue to, to digital. So, those key data officers will be seen as key notes. Especially when they can build out the factory of data products that really supports the business. But at the same time, they have to figure out how to reaching all of the branch to their technical counterparts, because you cannot build a factory of data products in my mind at least, without the proper infrastructure. And that's where your technical teams come in. And then obviously the partnerships with your video and information security folks, of course. >> Well heroes, everybody wants to be the hero. And I know that's a, you painted a pretty clear path right now, as far as the chief data officer's concerned and their importance and the value to companies down the road. Stan, we thank you very much for the time today and for the insight, and wish you continued success at the conference. Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. Have a nice day. Stay healthy. >> Thank you very much Stan Christiaen's joining us, talking about chief data citizenship, if you will, as part of data citizens, 21 the conference being put on by Collibra. I'm John Walls. Thanks for joining us here on the cube. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2018, brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> And welcome back to Las Vegas. We are live here at AWS re:Invent along with Justin Moore and I'm John Wallis. I know when you travel these days, all you want is, you want it to work, right? >> Yeah. >> We just want to get there. Well, I'll tell you what, Phil Wood from EasyJet wants you to get there as well. As does Matt Leonard from CenturyLink. Gentlemen, glad to have you with us. >> Thanks very much. >> We appreciate it. >> EasyJet, a European-based carrier just north of London, so we're talking about air travel. You are, as we've just recently learned, you are a Catalyst Award winner from CenturyLink, there's a reason for that and that's a point of distinction. So Matt, if you would maybe take us through a little bit about what EasyJet did to earn that distinction. >> Sure, the Catalyst Award is an award that we give out in combination with VMware to kind of highlight customers that are doing new and exciting things with regard to digital transformation. We've been a provider of services and a partner with EasyJet for a long time and they've done some really cool things with regard to services they provide their end customers. And we play a very very small part of that. Two exciting things that are my personal favorites with regard to EasyJet is the Look and Book service. So within the application if you want to book a new trip you normally have to type in the airport that you want to go to, and you have to figure out what's the name of the airport, or the three-digit code. With the EasyJet application you can upload a picture and it has intelligence that's used to figure out that picture and what that landmark is and then what the nearest airport is. So that's pretty exciting. And the second exciting thing within the application >> is a trip in one tap. So you can basically justdial in how much money you want to spend for a trip, hit the Go button, in literally one tap it'll recommend a city, a hotel, and a fun and exciting thing that's happening during that duration of time. So for last minute travelers, my family's certainly one of those, we got a free period of time, one tap it'll tell you where to stay, how to get there with EasyJet and then what's exciting happening within that city. >> So I could put in, I say, I want to spend 300 dollars a ticket, and tap boom, and it'll say you can go to Brussels, you can go to Amsterdam but you can't make it to Dublin this weekend, right? Or whatever. I love that. So what has that done for your business in terms of, on a micro level and a macro level, what's it doing in terms of that interface and what's it mean to your business in general? >> As a business, we're 23 years old, so we started very much like a startup and we kind of came in at low-cost airline bracket. But now what we're renowned for is the convenience, and you've got two examples there where our customers love that because it's a convenient way. They don't have to do lots of searching, they can just take the photograph and they know exactly where they're going to go. And that's really what differentiates us is that convenience and the customer experience that we offer to all of our customers. We have a lot of customers. We have 90 million passengers a year. They come to us because they know not just that we give great value but that experience. So what it's done, it's made us grow. And that's literally how we continue to grow is to expand those customer services and Centurylink have been a part of that journey for over half of our tenure as an airline. >> It sounds like technology is actually right on the edge of driving that value for customers and making things easy. Like just the experience of being able to walk out and take a photo of something and say, I want to go here. I would like to go out and see if I can trick it by taking a photo of the Eiffel Tower out in the back here. >> We'll go and try it out in a bit. >> I'm confident. >> We'll see how it goes. That's making use of a whole bunch of technologies. It's got mobile technology in there, it's got image recognition, it's got machine learning. What else are you seeing at the show here at AWS, what are some of the technologies that you think will drive the next evolution of things, what's going to win you the next award? >> I think one of the things I've really been looking at is around data and around the personalization. So we talked about customer experience but our whole journey of taking a plane, taking a holiday, for example, it's from the moment you book it to the moment you get back. There's so many touch points during that and there's so much data that we can take from that. So I've been really interested in looking at how different organizations and how Amazon have been using data. I also think you can't come to a show like this without looking at machine learning and AI. We're using aspects of that in how we analyze our data, but that's certainly something I think's going to change the airline industry moving forward. >> How important is a partnership with someone like CenturyLink in making sure that you get the best use of these technologies? >> Matt talked about that they have a small part to play but you've got to understand that every single customer, every single search on our website goes through a network. In order for us to connect to our customers, be they booking a flight, be they on a flight, we've got to go through a reliable network. And the way I describe it, it needs to be effortless. It needs to just work. You mentioned that right at the beginning. But I also think as well for us to exploit technologies like the cloud, which is what we're starting to invest a lot more into, we need a partner who can help us on that journey. So again, that's where CenturyLink and the partnership we've got has been absolutely crucial. The things that we're doing with CenturyLink around making sure that we're only paying for our network for what we use. We're an airline. Our airports are seasonal so kind of traditional networks, what you'll end up doing is paying for bandwidth all year, when in the winter seasons if you're not flying there that's dead money. So it's simple things like that but that makes a huge difference towards my cost base perspective. >> And time of day, I assume that affects that as well? >> Absolutely. I mean, clearly in our summer periods we fly a lot, so time of day during the summer, there's not that many hours we don't fly. >> You get a lot of daylight over there, right? (laughter) >> But certainly in winter where we have our kind of summer destinations, it makes a big big difference. And that's cost we pass on to the customer as well which is massively important. >> What is it about the customer that you don't know? You talked about AI, what that could do for you down the road. How much information, how much data do you think you can extract from the customer to make that experience even better, and what do you need to know about them, and how will CenturyLink help you get there? >> You need to know everything. I mean, we know that we sell a hundred seventy million bacon sandwiches a year. Whether that's useful or not, but we know that. >> There's hungry people. >> That's a lot of bacon. >> It is a lot. But it means that we know the type of food that our customers want to eat, we know the top destinations, even knowing how long between booking a flight and actually flying. So we know from a price perspective and from a making sure our planes are full or making sure we're not overselling our flights. All of that information, there's just a wealth of data that you're getting out there. And it's not just customers. One of the big factors for us is safety. So we use our data now to analyze maintenance. So we have predicted maintenance around when's the right time to put in spare parts but also what's the most efficient time so that we're not disrupting the customer. So actually we may want to bring a maintenance cycle sooner so we can open up more routes for customers to fly when they want to. So it's very hard to answer that question cause every day we're coming up with new ideas or new bits of information that at the time we never thought we needed to know but that actually turns out to be an absolutely crucial part of our offer. >> That's not an unusual thing for most people in a world where there's this much dynamic, this much change going on. So what process do you run through to figure out, where should we be looking to find out the next set of optimizations? Or how do you discover what is the next thing that you should work on, like where does the idea for, maybe we should build this app. Where does that come from? >> I don't think there's one model. I think what's always been at the heart of EasyJet is innovation, and we've always focused on the customer. So we have a great loyalty scheme and our customers are very loyal. We have 75% loyalty with our customers which is phenomenal. We get a lot of feedback and that feedback drives a lot of the ideas that we push forward. So I think it's a mixture of our passion, it's a mixture of our experience, but I'd say that feedback from the customer, that drives a lot of the ideas that we do moving forward. >> From the CenturyLink perspective, you received certification for the MSP designation. >> Yup. >> Working in the travel business, what does that do, or how does that MSP certification translate over to learning about a different industry, to applying different approaches, unique approaches, because it's not one size fits all. They have very, very specific challenges that you're trying to address. >> Yeah, so on a broader sense, our mission with clients like EasyJet and customers interested in the cloud is really to connect, migrate, and then manage their workloads within the cloud. That's really what we're focused on. And there's certainly commonalities within verticals but every customer's different, and really assessing, starting with the customer, and that's a common thing that I think both EasyJet as well as CenturyLink and certainly Amazon have in common, really focused on that customer journey. One of the approaches that we take through a program called CustomerLink is put the customer right in the center of the team and we've applied the Agile methodology to that customer engagement process. So we do a standup meeting once every two weeks, we do sprints once every two weeks. A lot of our customers are part of that board that we use to activate the sprint and to define priorities and what actions are. So really pulling the whole team together across different departments, focusing on the customer first, and in many cases the customer's customer first cause a lot of your priorities are based on what your customers are after, and really making sure that we're working on the right activity in a very lean way, pulling away as much waste as possible that aren't contributing to adding value to the customer journey. >> And then from your side of the fence going forward, you've mentioned four or five general areas, you've said, we could improve here, we could look at this, we could look at that. How do you prioritize and say, okay, let's focus here now and then we'll move on. So if you had to focus now, or for the next twelve months, what would that be on? >> So we've actually just relaunched our strategy. At the heart we are an airline so our priority is about being number one or number two in all the primary airports. We've got to keep that. But we also recognize from the data that the amount of our customers who will book hotels or book further products through some of our partners that's something that we can actually capitalize on. So we're looking more into holidays now. Taking that customer centricity, and how do we make the end-to-end journey for our customers so including travel to and from airport and the whole day. So that's a priority for us. Continue building our customer loyalty. So as much as we pride ourselves on loyalty, we believe there's a lot more you can do. I think the airline loyalty schemes need to be shaken up a little bit more. If you look in the retail sector or things like that they're focusing on different things. It's no longer just the case of air miles. People want speedier boarding, or they want a better experience, better seating arrangements. So we're looking at our loyalty. And then also business. We talk about, we've got really good slots for when we fly planes. And they're slots that are competitive to a business traveler. So that's our three main areas, I would say, are business, holidays, and loyalty. >> Matt, you're going to be in business for a while. I think you're okay. If you could work on legroom, I'm sold. Matt and Phil, thank you for being with us. We appreciate the time. Join us here on theCUBE. You're watching our live coverage from Las Vegas at AWS re:Invent. (electronic music)

>> Live from Washington DC, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back. It's theCUBE's exclusive coverage. We're here in Washington, D.C. for live coverage of theCUBE here at Amazon Web Services, AWS Public Sector Summit. This is the re-invent for the global public sector. Technically they do a summit but it's really more of a very focused celebration and informational sessions with customers from Amazon Web Services, GovCloud, and also international, except China, different world. John Furrier, Dave Vellante here for our third year covering AWS Public Sector Summit and again our next guest is Max Peterson, the Vice President of International Sales Worldwide for public sector data, Max, good to see you, thanks for coming back. >> It's good to see you again, John, thank you. >> So, we saw you at dinner last night, great VIP Teresa Carlson dinner last night, it's a who's who in Washington, D.C., but also international global public sector. >> Absolutely. >> And so, I want to get your thoughts on this, because AWS is not just in D.C. for GovCloud, there's a global framework here. What's goin' on, what's your take on how this cloud is disrupting the digital nations, and obviously here at home in D.C.? >> Well, John, so first of all, I love your description of this as a celebration, because really that's one of the things that we do, is we celebrate customer success, and so when you look at AWS around the world, we've got customers that are delivering solutions for citizens, new solutions for healthcare, a great solution to education all around the world. In Europe, we serve all those customers from London, Ireland, Germany, Frankfurt, Paris, all open regions, and we're bringing two new regions that we've announced, in the Middle East, which is an exciting part of the Europe, Middle East, and Africa business, and then also up in the Nordics, with Sweden. >> Yeah, so I want to ask you about EMEA, Europe, Middle East and Africa, it's the acronym for essentially international. Huge growth, obviously Europe is a mature set of countries, and it has its own set of issues, but in the Middle East and outside of Europe there's a huge growing middle class of digital culture. >> Yes. >> You're seeing everything from cryptocurrency booming, blockchain, you're seeing kind of the financial industries changing, obviously mobile impact, you got a new revolution going on with digital. You guys have to kind of thread the needle on that. What are you guys doing to support those regions? Obviously, you got to invest, got GDP always in the headlines >> Right. >> Recently, that's Europe's issue, and globally, but you got Europe, and you got outside of Europe. Two different growth strategies, how is AWS investing, what are some of the things you guys are doing? >> Sure, let me try and get all of those questions >> (laughs) Just start them one at a time >> That was very good, yeah. So, let's do the invest and grow piece. Digital skills are critical, and that's one of the challenges with the overall digital transformation, and, by the way, that's not just EMEA, that's all around the world, right? Including the U.S., and so we're doing a lot of things to try to address the digital skills requirement, a program that we've got called AWS Educate just yesterday announced the Cloud Academy Course. So, career colleges, technical colleges will be able to teach a two-year course specifically on cloud, right? For traditional university education, we provide this thing called AWS Educate. We, in the UK, we started a program over 18 months ago called Restart, where we focus on military leavers, spouses, and disadvantaged youth through the prince's trust, and we're training a thousand people a year on AWS cloud computing and digital skills. Taking them, in this case, out of military, or from less advantaged backgrounds and bringin' 'em into tech. And then, finally in April of this year, at our Brussels public sector summit, a celebration of customers in EMEA, we announced that we're going to be training 100,000 people across Europe, Middle East and Africa, with a combination of all of these programs, so skills is absolutely top in terms of getting people on to the cloud, right, and having them be digitally savvy, but the other part that you talked about is really the generational and cultural changes. People expect service when they touch a button on the phone. And that's not how most governments work, it's not how a lot of educational institutions work, and so we're helping them. And so, literally now, across the region, we've got governments that are delivering online citizen services at the touch of a button. Big organizations, like the UK Home Office, like the Department for Wealth and Pensions, like the Ministry of Justice. And then, I think the other thing that you asked about was GDPR. >> Yeah. (laughs) >> Am I covering all the bases? >> You're doing good Max. >> You keep it rollin'. >> You're a clipping machine, here. >> So, GDPR might be thought of as a European phenomenon, but my personal opinion is that's going to set the direction for personal data privacy around the world, and we're seeing the implementation happen in Europe, but we're seeing also customers in the Middle East, in Asia, down in Latin America going, "Hey, that's a good example." And I think you'll see people adopt it, much like people have adopted the NIST definition of cloud computing. Why re-invent it? If there's something that's good, let's adopt it and go, and Amazon understood that that was coming, although some people act like it's a surprise. >> Yeah. >> Did your e-mail box get flooded with e-mail? >> Oh, Gosh. >> God, tons Well the day >> Day before. >> Yes! >> (laughs) >> Yes, day before! Acting like this was, like a surprise. It started two years before, so Amazon actually started our planning so that when the day arrived for it to be effective, AWS services were GDPR compliant so that customers could build GDPR compliant solutions on top of the cloud. >> So, I mean generally I know there's a lot of detail there, but what does that mean, GDPR compliant? 'Cause I like having my data in the cloud with GDPR, 'cause I can push a lot of the compliance onto my cloud provider, so what does that really mean, Max? >> Yeah, well fundamentally, GDPR gives people control of their information. An example is the right to be forgotten, right? Many companies, good companies were already doing that. This makes it a requirement across the entire EU, right? And so, what it means to be compliant is that companies, governments, people need to have a data architecture. They really have to understand where their data is, what information they're collecting, and they have to make the systems follow the rules for privacy protection. >> So how does AWS specifically help me as a customer? >> Right, so our customers around Europe, in fact, around the world build their solutions on top of Amazon. The Amazon services do things that are required by GDPR like encryption, alright? And so, you're supposed to encrypt and protect private data. In Amazon, all you do is click a button, and no matter where you store it, it's encrypted and protected. So a lot of organizations struggled to implement some of these basic protections. Amazon's done it forever, and under GDPR, we've organized those so that all of our services act the same. >> Max, this brings up security questions, 'cause, you know obviously we hear a lot of people use the cloud, as an example, for getting things stood up quickly, >> Yep. >> Whether it's an application in the past, and then say a data warehouse, you got redshifts, and kinesis, and at one point was the fastest growing service, as Andy Jassy said, now that's been replaced by a bunch of other stuff. You got SageMaker around the corner, >> SageMaker's awesome. >> So you got that ability, but also data is not just a data warehouse question. It's really a central value proposition, whether you're talking about in the cloud or IOT, so data becomes the center of the value proposition. How are you guys ensuring security? What are some of the conversations, because it certainly differs on a country by country basis. You got multiple regions developing, established and developing new ones for AWS. How do you look at that? How do you talk to customers and say, "Okay, here's our strategy, and here's what we're doing to secure your data, here's how you can go faster (laughs), keep innovating, because you know they don't want to go slower, because it's complicated. To do a GDPR overhaul, for some customers, is a huge task. How do you guys make it faster, while securing the data? >> Yeah, so first of all, your observation about data, having gravity, is absolutely true. What we've struggled with, with government customers, with healthcare and commercial enterprise, is people have their data locked up in little silos. So the first thing that people are doing on the cloud, is they're taking all that and putting it into a data warehouse, a data repository. Last night we heard from NASA, and from Blue Origin about the explosion in data, and in fact, what they said, and we believe, is that you're going to start bringing your compute to the data because the amount of information that you've got, when you've got billions of sensors, IOT, billions of these devices that are sending information or receiving information, you have to have a cloud strategy to store all that information. And then secondly, you have to have a cloud compute strategy to actually make use of that information. You can't download it anymore. If you're going to operate in real time, you've got to run that machine learning, right, in real time, against the data that's coming in, and then you've got to be able to provide the information back to an application or to people that makes use of it. So you just can't do it in-house anymore. >> You mentioned the talk last night as part of the Earth and Science Program, which you guys did, which by the way, I thought was fabulous. For the folks watching, they had a special inaugural event, before this event around earth and space, Blue Origin was there, Jet Propulsion Lab, much of the NASA guys, a lot of customers. But the interesting thing he said also, was is that they look at the data as a key part, and then he called himself a CTO, Chief Toy Officer. And he goes, "you got to play with the toys before they become too old," but that was a methodology that he was talking about how they get involved in using the tooling. Tooling becomes super important. You guys have a set of services, AWS, Amazon Web Services, which essentially are tools. >> Yeah. >> Collectively tools, you know global, you end up generalizing it, but this is important because now you can mix and match. Talk about how that's changed the customer mindset and how they roll out technology because they got to play, they got to experiment, as Andy Jassy would say, but also, also put the tools into production. How is it changing the face of your customer base? >> Sure, well, one of the things that customers love, is the selection of tools, but one of the most important things we actually do with customers, is help them to solve their problems. We have a professional service organization, we have what we call Envision Engineering, which is a specialized team that goes in and develops prototypes with customers, so that they understand how they can use these different tools to actually get their work done. One quick example: in the UK, the NHS had to implement a new program for people calling in to understand health benefits. And they could've done this in a very traditional fashion, it would've taken months and months to set up the call center and get everything rolling. Fortunately, they worked with one of our partners, and they understood that they could use new speech and language processing tools like Lex, and Amazon's in-the-cloud call center tools, like Connect. In two weeks, they were able to develop the application that handled 42% of the inbound call volume entirely automated, with speech and text processing, so that the other 52% could go to live operators where they had a more complex problem. That was prototyped in two weeks, it was implemented in three more weeks, a total of five weeks from concept to operation of a call center receiving thousands and thousands of inbound calls on the cloud. >> Max, can you paint a picture of the EMEA customer base, how it sort of compares to the US, the profile? I mean, obviously here, in the United States, you got a healthy mix of customers. You got startups, you're announcing enterprises, you got IOT use cases. I imagine a lot of diversity in EMEA, but how does it compare with the US, how would you describe it? Paint a picture for us. >> Yeah sure, candidly, we see the same exact patterns all around the world. Customers are in different stages of readiness, but across Europe, we have central governments that are bringing online, mission systems to the cloud. I mentioned Home Office, I mentioned DWP, I mentioned Her Majesty Revenue and Customs, HMRC. They're bringing real mission systems to the cloud now because they laid the right foundations, right? They've got a cloud native policy, and that's what directs government, that says stop building legacy systems and start building for the future by using the cloud. Educational institutions across the board are using AWS. Science and research, like the European Space Agency is using AWS, so we see, really, just the same pattern going on. Some areas of the world are newer to the cloud, so in the Middle East, we're seeing that sort of startup phase, where startup companies are gettin' onto the cloud. Some of 'em are very big. Careem is a billion dollar startup running on AWS, right. But we're helping startups just do the basics on the cloud. In Bahrain, which is a small country in the Middle East, they realized the transformative opportunity with cloud computing, and they decided to take the lead. They worked with AWS, they produced a national cloud policy, their CIO said we will move to the cloud, and that's key. Leadership is absolutely key. And then they put in place a framework, and they very systematically identified those applications that were ready, and they moved those first. Then they tackled the ones that weren't quite ready, and they moved those. They moved 450 applications in a matter of three months, to the cloud, but it was by having a focused program, top-level leadership, the right policy, and then we provided technical resources to help them do it. >> Max, I want to get one last question before the time comes up, but I want to put you on the spot here. >> Oh good. >> In the United States, Amazon Web Services public sector has really kind of changed the game. You saw the CIA deal that you guys did years ago, the Department of Defense is all in the news, obviously it's changing the ecosystem. How is that dynamic happening in Europe? You said the patterns are the same. Take a minute to just quickly describe, what's going on in the ecosystem? What's the partner profile look like? You've got a great partner ecosystem, and there are different partners. You mentioned Bahrain, Digital Nation, changing the game. You guys seem to attract kind of a new guard, a new kind of thinking, partners. What is the ecosystem partnerships look like for you guys, internationally, and is there the same dynamic going on that's happening in the US with the CIA, and DOD leaders around changing the narrative, changing the game, with technology? >> Sure, good questions. We wouldn't be able to deliver the solutions that we deliver to customers without our partner ecosystem. And sometimes, they're small, born in the cloud partners, the same sort of phenomenon that we have in the US. The example with the National Health Service was delivered by a expert consulting partner called Arcus Global, about a hundred person strong consulting organization that just knows cloud and makes it their business. And we see those throughout Europe, Middle East, and into Africa. We have our large global partners, Capgemini, Accenture, and then I think the other thing that's really important, is the regional partners. So what's happening is we're seeing those regional partners, partners like Everee, or Dee-Ecto, or SCC. We're seeing them now realize that their customers want to be agile, they want to be innovative, they want to be fast, and it doesn't hurt that they're going to save some money. And so we're seeing them change their business model, to adopt cloud computing, and that's the tipping point. When that middle, that trusted middle of partners, starts to adopt cloud and help the customers, that's when it really swings the other direction. >> It's great growth, and new growth brings new partners, new profiles, new brands, new names, and specialty is key. Max, thanks for coming on the CUBE. Really appreciate you taking the time. International, we're riding the wave of home sector with CUBE here in the US, soon we'll see you in some international summits. >> I'm looking forward, >> Alright. >> John, Dave, it was awesome to talk to you. >> Thanks Max. >> Alright, we are here live in Washington, D.C., for Amazon Web Services, AWS, Public Sector Summit 2018, we are in Washington, I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, and also Stu Miniman is here, the whole CUBE team is here, unpacking the phenomenon that is AWS, rocking the government and digital nations around the world. We're back with more, after this short break. (upbeat techno music)

hi I'm Peter Burris and welcome to this week's action item once again we're broadcasting from our beautiful the cube Studios in Palo Alto California and the wiki bond team is a little bit smaller this week for variety of reasons I'm being joined remotely by Neil Raiden and Jim Kabila's how you doing guys we're doing great Peter I'd be good thank you alright and it's actually a good team what we're gonna talk about we're gonna be specifically talking about some interesting developments and 14 days or so gdpr is gonna kick in and people who are behind will find themselves potentially subject to significant fines we actually were talking to a chief privacy officer here in the US who told us that had the Equinix breach occurred in Europe after May 25 2008 eeen it would have cost or Equifax the Equifax breach it would have cost Equifax over 160 billion dollars so these are very very real types of money that we're talking about but as we started thinking about some of the implications of gdpr and when it's going to happen and the circumstances of its of its success or failure and what its gonna mean commercially to businesses we also started trying to fold in a second trend and that second trend is the role of bitcoins going to play Bitcoin has a number of different benefits we'll get into some of that in a bit but one of them is that the data is immutable and gdpr has certain expectations regarding a firm's flexibility and how it can manage and handle data and blockchain may not line up with some of those issues as well as a lot of the Braque blockchain advocates might think Jim what are some of the specifics well Peter yeah blockchain is the underlying distributed hyper ledger or trusted database underlying Bitcoin and many other things blockchain yeah you know the one of the core things about blockchain that makes it distinctive is that you can create records and append them to block change you can read from them but can't delete them or update them it's not a crud database it's essentially for you to be able to go in and you know and erase a personally identifiable information record on an EU subject is you EU citizen in a blockchain it's not possible if you stored it there in other words blockchain then at the very start because it's an immutable database would not allow you to comply with the GDP ours were quite that people have been given a right to be forgotten as what what it's called that is a huge issue that might put the big kibosh on implementation of blockchain not just for PII in the EU but really for multinational businesses anybody who does business in Europe and the core you know coordination is like you know we're disregard brexit for now like Germany and France and Italy you got to be conformant completely worldwide essentially with your in your your PII management capabilities in order to pass muster with the regulators in the EU and avoid these massive fines blockchain seems like it would be incompatible with that compliance so where does the blockchain industry go or does it go anywhere or will it shrink well the mania died because of the GDP our slap in the face probably not there is a second issue as well Jim Lise I think there is and that is blockchain is allows for anonymity which means that everybody effectively has a copy of the ledger anywhere in the world so if you've got personally identifiable information coming out of the EU and you're a member or you're a part of that blockchain Network living in California you get a copy of the ledger now you may not be able to read the details and maybe that protects folks who might implement applications in blockchain but it's a combination of both the fact that the ledger is fully distributed and that you can't go in and make adjustments so that people can be forgotten based on EU laws if I got that right that's right and then there's a gray area you can't encrypt any and every record in a blockchain and conceal it from the prying eyes of people in California or in Thailand or wherever in the EU but that doesn't delete it that's not the same as erasing or deleting so there's a gray issue and there's no clarity from the EU regulators on this what if you use secret keys to encrypt individual records PII on a blockchain and then lost the keys or deleted the keys is that effectively would that be the same as he racing the record even though those bits still be there to be unreadable none of this has really been addressed in practice and so it's all a gray area it's a huge risk factor for companies that are considering exploring uses of blockchain for managing identity and you know security and all that other good stuff related to the records of people living in EU member countries so it seems as though we have two things they're gonna have that are that are likely to happen first off it's very clear that a lot of the GDP are related regulations were written in advance of comprehending what blockchain might be and so it doesn't and GDP are typically doesn't dictate implementation styles so it may have to be amended to accommodate some of the blocks a blockchain implementation style but it also suggests that increasingly we're going to hear from a design standpoint the breaking up of data associated with a transaction so that some of the metadata associated with that transaction may end up in the blockchain but some of the actual PII related data that is more sensitive from a GDP or other standpoint might remain outside of the blockchain so the blockchain effectively becomes a distributed secure network for managing metadata in certain types of complex transactions this is is that is that in scope of what we're talking about Jim yeah I bet you've raised and alluded to a big issue for implementers there will be on chain implementations of particular data data applications and off chain implementations off chain off blockchain will probably be all the PII you know in databases relational and so forth that allow you to do deletes and updates and so forth in you know to comply with you know gdpr and so forth and similar mandates elsewhere gdpr is not the only privacy mandate on earth and then there's on chain applications that you'll word the data what data sets will you store in blockchain you mentioned metadata now metadata I'm not sure because metadata quite often is is updated for lots of reasons for lots of operational patience but really fundamentally if we look at what a blockchain is it's a audit log it's an archive potentially of a just industry fashioned historical data that never changes and you don't want it to change ideally I mean I get an audit log you know let's say in the Internet of Things autonomous vehicles crashed and so forth and the data on how they operate should be stored you know either in a black box on the devices on the cars themself and also possibly backed up to a distributed blockchain where there is a transact or there's a there they a trusted persistent resilient record of what went on that would be a perfect idea for using block chains for storing perhaps trusted timestamp maybe encrypted records on things like that because ultimately the regulators and the courts and the lawyers and everybody else will want to come back and subpoena and use those records to and analyze what went on I mean for example that's an idea where something like a block shape and simile might be employed that doesn't necessarily have to involve PII unless of course it's an individual persons car and so there's all those great areas for those kinds of applications so right now it's kind of looking fuzzy for blockchain in lots of applications where identity can be either you know where you can infer easily the infer the identity of individuals from data that may not on the face of it look like it's PII so Neal I want to come back to you because it's this notion of being able to infer one of the things that's been going on in the industry for the past well 60 years is the dream of being able to create a transaction and persist that data but then generate derivative you out of that data through things like analytics data sharing etc blockchain because it is but you know it basically locks that data away from prying eyes it kind of suggests that we want to be careful about utilizing blockchain for applications where the data could have significant or could generate significant derivative use what do you think well we've known for a long long time that if you have anonymized data in the data set that it can merge that data with data from another data set relatively easy to find out who the individuals are right you add you add DNA stuff to that eh our records surveys things from social media you know everything about people and that's dangerous because we used to think that while losing are losing our privacy means that are going to keep giving us recommendations to buy these hands and shoes it's much more sinister than that you can be discriminated against in employment in insurance in your credit rating and all sorts of things so it's it's I think a really burning issue but what does it have to do with blockchain and G GD R that's an important question I think that blockchain is a really emerge short technology right now and like all image search technologies it's either going to evolve very quickly or it's gonna wither and die I'm not going to speculate which one it's going to be but this issue of how you can use it and how you can monetize data and things that are immutable I think they're all unanswered questions for the wider role of applications but to me it seems like you can get away from the immutable part by taking previous information and simply locking it away with encryption or something else and adding new information the problem becomes I think what happens to that data once someone uses it for other purpose than putting it in a ledger and the other question I have about GD d are in blockchain is who's enforcing this one army of people are sifting through all the stated at the side use and violation does it take a breach before they have it or is there something else going on the act of participating in a blockchain equivalent to owning or or having some visibility or something into a system so I am gdpr again hasn't doesn't seem to have answers to that question Jim what were you gonna say yeah the EU and its member nations have not worked out have not worked out those issues in terms of how will you know they monitor enforcement and enforce GDP are in practical terms I mean clearly it's gonna require on the parts of Germany and France and the others and maybe you know out of Brussels there might be some major Directorate for GDP our monitoring and oversight in terms of you know both companies operating in those nations as well as overseas with European Berger's none of that's been worked out by those nations clearly that's like you know it's just like the implementation issues like blockchain are not blockchain it's we're moving it toward the end of the month with you know not only those issues networked out many companies many enterprises both in Europe and elsewhere are not GDP are ready there may be some of them I'm not gonna name names may make a good boast that they are but know nobody really knows what it needs to be ready at this point I just this came to me very clearly when I asked Bernard Marr well-known author and you know influencer and the big data space at UM in Berlin a few weeks ago at at the data works and I said Bernard you know you consult all over with big companies what percentage of your clients and without giving names do you think are really truly GDP are already perm age when he said very few because they're not sure what it means either everybody's groping their way towards some kind of a hopefully risk mitigations threatened risk mitigation strategy for you know addressing this issue well the technology certainly is moving faster than the law and I'd say an argue even faster than the ethics it's going to be very interesting to see how things play out so we're just for anybody that's interested we are actually in the midst right now of doing right now doing some a nice piece of research on blockchain patterns for applications and what we're talking about essentially here is the idea that blockchain will be applicable to certain classes of applications but a whole bunch of other applications it will not be applicable to so it's another example of a technology that initially people go oh wow that's the technology it's going to solve all problems all date is going to move into the cloud Jim you like to point out Hadoop all data and all applications are going to migrate to the doop and clearly it's not going to happen Neil the way I would answer the question is it blockchain reduces the opportunity for multiple parties to enter into opportunism so that you can use a blockchain as a basis for assuring certain classes of behaviors as a group as a community and and and B and had that be relatively audible and understandable so it can reduce the opportunity for opportunism so you know companies like IBM probably you're right that the idea of a supply chain oriented blockchain that's capable of of assuring that all parties when they are working together are not exploiting holes in the contracts that they're actually complying in getting equal value out of whatever that blockchain system is and they're not gaining it while they can go off and use their own data to do other things if they want that's kind of the in chain and out of chain notion so it's going to be very interesting to see what happens over the course of next few years but clearly even in the example that I described the whole question of gdb our compliance doesn't go away all right so let's get to some action items here Nia what's your action item I suppose but when it comes to gdpr and blockchain I just have a huge number of questions about how they're actually going to be able to enforce it and when it comes to a personal information you know back in the Middle Ages when we went to the market to buy a baby pig they put it in a bag and tied it because they wouldn't want the piglet to run away because it'd take too much trouble to find it but when you got at home sometimes they actually didn't give you a pig they gave you a cat and when you opened up bag the cat was out of the bag that's where the phrase comes from so I'm just waiting for the cat to come out of the bag I I think this sounds like a real fad that was built around Bitcoin and we're trying to find some way to use it in some other way but I'm I just don't know what it is I'm not convinced Jim oxidiser my yeah my advice for Dana managers is to start to segment your data sets into those that are forgettable under gdpr and those that are unforgettable but forgettable ones is anything that has publicly identifiable information or that can be easily aggregated into identifying specific attributes and specific people whether they're in Europe or elsewhere is a secondary issue The Unforgettable is a stuff that it has to remain inviolate and persistent and can that be deleted and so forth the stuff all the unforgettables are suited to writing to one or more locked chains but they are not kosher with gdpr and other privacy mandates and focusing on the unforgettable data whatever that might be then conceivably investigate using blockchain for distributed you know you know access and so forth but they're mine the blockchain just one database technology among many in a very hybrid data architecture you got the Whitman way to skin the cat in terms of HDFS versus blockchain versus you know you know no first no sequel variants don't imagine because blockchain is the flavor of mania of the day that you got to go there there's lots and lots of alternatives all right so here's our action item overall this week we discussed on action item the coming confrontation between gdpr which is has been in effect for a while but actually fines will start being levied after May 25th and blockchain GPR has relatively or prescribed relatively script strict rules regarding a firm's control over personally identifiable in from you have to have it stored within the bounds of the EU if it's derives from an EU source and also it has to be forgettable that source if they choose to be forgotten the firm that owns that data or administers and stewards that data has to be able to get rid of it this is in conflict with blockchain which says that the Ledger's associated with a blockchain will be first of all fully distributed and second of all immutable and that provides some very powerful application opportunities but it's not gdpr compliant on the face of it over the course of the next few years no doubt we will see the EU and other bodies try to bring blockchain and block thing related technologies into a regulatory regime that actually is administrable as as well as auditable and enforceable but it's not there yet does that mean that folks in the EU should not be thinking about blockchains we don't know it means it introduces a risk that has to be accommodated but we at least think that the that what has to happen is data managers on a global basis need to start adding to it this concept of forgettable data and unforgettable data to ensure the cake can remain in compliance the final thing will say is that ultimately blockchain is another one of those technologies that has great science-fiction qualities to it but when you actually start thinking about how you're going to deploy it there are very practical realities associated with what it means to build an application on top of a blockchain datastore ultimately our expectation is that blockchain will be an important technology but it's going to take a number of years for knowledge to diffuse about what blockchain actually is suitable for and what it's not suitable for and this question of gdpr and blockchain interactions is going to be a important catalyst to having some of those conversations once again Neil Jim thank you very much for participating in action today my pleasure I'm Peter burger I'm Peter bursts and you've been once again listening to a wiki bond action item until we talk again

(techno music) >> (Narrator) Live from Washington, DC. It's Cube conversations with John Furrier. (techno music) >> Hello and welcome to the special exclusive Cube Conversations here in Washington, DC. I'm John Furrier host of the Cube. Here at Amazon Web Services Headquarter World Headquarters for Public Sector Summit in Arlington, Virginia. Our special guest is Tricia Davis-Muffett, who is the Director of Marketing for Worldwide Amazon Web Services. Thanks for joining me. >> Yep. >> So we see each other and reinvent Public Sector Summit, but you're always running around. You got so many things going on. >> I am. >> Big responsibility here. (Tricia laughs) >> You guys are running hard and you have great culture, Teresa's team. Competitive, like to have fun. Don't like to lose. (Tricia laughs) >> What's it like being a marketer for the fastest growing hottest product in Washington, DC and around the world? >> Yeah. I mean it's really been amazing. When I came here, I kind of took a leap of faith on the company because it's four and a half years ago that I came. I literally accepted the job before we had even gotten our first fed ramp approval. So it wasn't entirely sure that this was going be the place to go to for technology for the government, but I really loved the way that we were helping the government innovate and save money of course. I think most of us who are in Public Sector have a passion for citizens, and for making government better and so that's really what I saw in Teresa and her team that they had such a passion to do that and that the technology was going to help the government really improve the lives of citizens. It's been great. One of the things that's been amazing is the passion that our customers have for our technology. I think they get a little taste of it and they go "Wow, I can't believe what I can do "that I thought was impossible before." And so I love seeing what our customers do with the technology. >> It's something people would think might be easy to be a marketer for Amazon, but if you think about it, you have so much speed in your business. You have a cult of personality in the Cloud addiction, or Cloud value. In addition to the outcomes that are happening. >> Uh huh. >> We're a customer and one kind of knows that's pretty biased on it. We've seen the success ourselves, but you guys have a community. Everywhere you go, you're seeing Amazon as they take more territory down. Public Cloud originally, and now Enterprise, and Public Cloud, Public Sector Enterprise, Public Cloud. Each kind of wave of territory that Amazon goes in to Amazon Web Services, is a huge community. >> Yeah. >> And so that's another element. I mean Public Sector Summit last year it felt like Reinvent. So this years going to be bigger. >> Yeah. We had 65 hundred plus people attend last year, just in the Washington DC area and we've also expanded that program now and we are taking our Public Sector Summit specifically for government education non-profit around the world. So this year we will be in Brussels, and Camber, Australia. We have great adoption in Australia as well with the government there. In Singapore, Ottawa. So we're really expanding quite a bit and helping governments around the world to adopt. >> So if that's a challenge, how are you going to handle that because you guys have always been kind of with Summits. Do you coattail Summits? Do you go separate? >> No. We go separate. We actually have the Public Sector Summits we take the experience of our technology to government towns that wouldn't typically get a Summit. So for instance here in the United States of course, San Francisco and New York there's a lot of commercial businesses. We have our big Summits there, but there's not as much commercial business here in Washington DC, so really Public Sector takes the lead here. And then we focus on some of the things that really are most important to our Public Sector customers. Things like, procurement and acquisition. Things like the security and compliance that's so critical in the government sector. And then also, we do a really careful job of curating our customers, because we know that our government customers want to hear from each other. They want to hear from people who are blazing a trail within the Public Sector. They don't necessarily want to hear about what we want to say. They want to hear what their peers are doing with the technology. So last year, we had over a hundred of our Public Sector customers speaking to each other about what they were doing with the Cloud. >> And I find that's impressive. I actually commented on the Cube that week that it's interesting you let the customers do the talking. I mean, that's the best ultimate sign of success and traction. >> Yeah. And the great thing is, you know I've worked in other places in the Public Sector and government customers can be kind of shy about talking about what they're doing. You know, there are very motivated to just keep things going calmly, quietly, you know get their jobs done. But I think... >> Well, it doesn't hurt when you have the top guy at the CIA say, "Best decision we've ever made." "It's the most innovative thing we've ever done." I mean talk about being shy. >> Yeah. >> That's the CIA, by the way. That's the CIA. And we've also had, people like NASA JPL who've been very outspoken. Tom Soderstrom said that it was conservatively 1/100th of the cost of what it would have been if he had built out the infrastructure himself to build the infrastructure for his Mars landing. I mean that kind of... >> It just keeps giving. You lower prices. Okay I got to change gears, because a couple things that I've observed to every Reinvent, as being a customer and I think I've used Amazon I first came out as an entrepreneur. (inaudible) had no URL support, but that's showing my age. (Tricia laughs) But, here's the thing, you guys have enabled customers to solve problems that they couldn't solve in the past. >> (Tricia) Right. >> You mentioned NASA and then a variety of other (inaudible). But you guys are also in Public Sectors specifically are doing new things. New problems that no ones ever seen before. And society, entrepreneurship, diversity inclusion, education, non-profits. You don't think of Gov Cloud and Public Sector; you think non-profits, education. So it's kind of these sectors that are coming together. This is a new phenomenon. Can you talk and explain the dynamic behind that and the opportunity? >> Sure. I love to hear the stories of what our customers are doing when they really are tackling a problem that no one had thought of before. So for instance, at Reinvent this year, one of our Public Sector customers who spoke was Thorne. And they are using AI to crawl the dark web and help find people who are trafficking children in human trafficking, and that's a great use of AI and that's the kind of thing. It also helps our public servants because it helps to make police officers' jobs more effective. So of course we know that police officers, there are never enough police officers to go around. There's never enough detectives to look into everything that they need to and this makes them so much more effective to make the world a safer, better place. I also love some of the things about educational outcomes. Ivy Tech Community College is one of our great community college customers. And their using big data analysis to put together all of the different data sets that they have about their students and identify who might be at risk of failing a class 10 days into the semester so that they can help intervene with those students. >> Where was that class when I needed it? >> I know. >> Popup and say, "Hey homework time." >> I mean it really is looking at what kind of issues that they're having very early on with attendance, with different behavioral things. >> A great example at Reinvent with the California Community College system. That was a very interesting way. He was up there bragging like it was nobody's business. >> Yeah, and I think the community colleges that really goes into this idea of we're trying to expand opportunity for a wide-range of people. You might think of computer scientists as that's going to be all the Carnegie Mellon and Stanford and MIT people. And of course those are great contributors to computer science, but the fact is that computer science is so critical in so many aspects of life and in so many different kinds of careers. We know that one of the limiters to our own growth is going to be the talent that we have available to take advantage of the technology. We've been really working hard to expand opportunity for a wide-range of people, so that any smart person with an idea, can be using our technology, that's part of what's behind building the AWS Educate Program, which is a program to offer free computer science training to any university student or college student anywhere in the world. >> So it's a program you guys are doing? >> (Tricia) This is a program we are doing, >> What's it called again? >> AWS Educate. And it's a program that offers free credits to use AWS to any student who is enrolled in any kind of university or college anywhere around the world. >> That's a gateway drug to Cloud computing. >> Absolutely. >> Free resources. >> Yeah, and we're giving them a training path so that they can... >> So they want to write some code, or whatever they want to do. >> Yeah, and they can take different paths and learn. Okay, I want to learn a data science pathway, so I'm going to go that way. I want to learn a websites pathway. And they can go through things and build a portfolio of projects that they've actually built. >> So can they tap into some of the AWS AI tools too? >> They can tap into a wide range of tools and they have different levels of tiers of credits that they get, so it's a really great program to really open up Cloud computing. >> Now is there any limitations on that? What grade levels, is it college and above? >> Actually at Reinvent we just opened it up to students 14 and above. >> (John) Beautiful. That's awesome. >> And we also have a program called... >> How do they prove they're a student? >> Having a school, an EDU email address, or their school being registered through the program. >> (John) Okay, that's awesome. >> And then we also have another program called We Power Tech, and that really is a program to help open up the talent pool again to women to underserved communities, to people of different ethnic backgrounds who might not see themselves in technology because they don't see themselves as computer programmers on TV or whatever. >> Or they don't see their peer group in there, or some sort of might be an inclusion issue. >> Right and we're looking at if you take educate and We Power Tech, we're looking at that full pipeline of talent all the way from kids who are deciding should I pursue computer science or not, all the way through to professionals and getting them to try to stay in technology. >> So you guys are legit on this. You're not going to just check the box and focus on narrow things. A lot of companies do that, where they go oh we're targeting young girls or women. You guys are looking at the spectrum broader. >> Yep. And we're really looking at different communities and helping people to find their community in technology so that they can find supportive networks and also find people to mentor them or find people to mentor who are elsewhere. >> How big of a problem is it right now in today's culture and in the online culture to find peers and friends to do work like this? Because it just doesn't seem to me like there's been any innovation in online message groups. Seems like so 30 years ago. (Tricia laughs) >> Yeah. I think it is tough and I think there are somethings that we're trying to break through. For instance, a lot of the role models out there are the same people over and over again. We're trying to find new role models. And we find that through our customers. We find customers who are doing interesting work and we're trying to cultivate their voice and help put them on stage. >> New voices because it's new things. Machine learning, these are new disciplines. Data science across the board. >> Yeah, and one of the things that I love about the technology is it really is has democratizing affect. If you have an idea, you can make that idea happen for very little money, with just your ingenuity and your ability to stick to it. >> I got to ask you the hard question. Shouldn't be hard for you, but Amazon is gritty. It's been called gritty by me, hustling, but they're very good with their money. They don't really waste a lot in marketing. >> Yeah we're frugal. >> Very frugal, but you're very efficient, so I got to ask your favorite gorilla marketing technique. Cause you guys do more with less. >> (Tricia) We do. >> Once been criticized in Wired magazine. I remember reading years ago about they were comparing the Schwag bag to Reinvent. (Tricia laughs) Google almost gave out phones. It's kind of like typical reporter, but my point is you guys spend your money on education to engineers. You don't skip on that, but you might not put the flair onto an event, but now you guys are doing it. >> I think there are two things. So one of them is the aesthetic of our events. We typically do have a very stripped down aesthetic and we've made frugal look cool. I think that's one of the things I learned when I came here was go ahead and have the concrete floor and put quotes from customers there instead of paying to carpet it. So don't waste money on things that don't add value that's one of the core tenants of what we do in marketing. >> Get a better band instead of the rug. You guys have always had great music. >> We do always have great music. >> Tricia, tell me about your favorite program or project you've done a lot over the years. Pick your favorite child. What's your favorite? You have a lot of great stuff going on. Do you have a favorite? >> I think that my favorite is probably the City on a Cloud Innovation Challenge which is something we've done every year for the last four years. And we really went and asked cities, "Tell us what you're doing with our technology." Because we weren't sure what they were doing cause it's not very expensive for cities to run on us. We found that they were doing incredible things. They were doing water monitoring in their cities to help improve the quality of life of their citizens. They were delivering education more effectively. They were helping their transportation run in a more effective way. New York City Department of Transportation was doing really cool citizen facing apps to help them manage their transportation challenges and also cities all around the world. We've had people put in things about garbage management in Jerusalem and about lighting management in a Japanese city. We've had all kinds of really interesting stories come out and I just love hearing what the customers are doing and this year we added a Dream Big category where we said, "If you had the money, what would "you do with technology in your city?" and we've been really thrilled to be able to offer grants and fund some of those things to help cities get started. >> That's awesome. Not only is it engaging for them to engage with you through the program, it's inspirational. The use cases are everything from IOT to every computer. >> Yeah and we've also had partners submit as well, and we've learned about things like parking applications that cities are putting in place to help their citizens find better parking or all kinds of really interesting. How to keep track of the tree and do a tree census in their cities. Things like that. >> Maybe I'll borrow that and give you credit for it as a Cube question. What would you do if you had unlimited money? >> Exactly. (John laughs) Well the great part is that most of the cities find out that they can do what they want to do with very little money. They think it's going to be millions of dollars and then they realize, "Oh my gosh, it's going to be hard "for me to spend this 50 thousand dollar grant "because it doesn't cost that much." >> That's awesome and you got a big event coming up in June. Public Sector Summit again. Any preview on that? Any thing you can share? I'm sure it's a lot of things up in the air. >> A lot of really cool things. We are very excited to have some of our great customers on stage again. We're also this year going to have a pre day where we're going to feature Air and Space workloads on AWS. So that's going to be really interesting. I think we're going to have Blue Origin there and we're going to talk about what it's going to take to get to the next planet. >> And certainly that's beautiful for Cloud and also a huge robotics trend. People love to geek out on space related stuff. >> Yep. >> Awesome. Well the Cube will be there. Any numbers? Is it going to be the same location? >> It's going to be the same location at the Convention Center June 20th and 21st. We're going to have boot camps and certification labs and all that kind of stuff. I expect we'll grow again, so definitely more than seven thousand people. >> How big was the first one? >> Oh my gosh, the first one was in a little hotel conference room. I think there were a hundred and 50 people there. (Tricia laughs) >> Sounds like Reinvent happening all over again. We've seen this movie before. >> (Tricia) Yep. >> Tricia, thanks so much for coming on the Cube here. In the headquarters of Amazon Web Services Public Sector Summit in Washington DC. We're in Arlington, Virginia, right next to the nation's capital. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live, from Munich, Germany, it's the CUBE. Covering IBM, Fast Track Your Data. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome to Munich everybody. This is a special presentation of the CUBE, Fast Track Your Data, brought to you by IBM. My name is Dave Vellante. And I'm here with my cohost, Jim Kobielus. Jim, good to see you. Really good to see you in Munich. >> Jim: I'm glad I made it. >> Thanks for being here. So last year Jim and I hosted a panel at New York City on the CUBE. And it was quite an experience. We had, I think it was nine or 10 data scientists and we felt like that was a lot of people to organize and talk about data science. Well today, we're going to do a repeat of that. With a little bit of twist on topics. And we've got five data scientists. We're here live, in Munich. And we're going to kick off the Fast Track Your Data event with this data science panel. So I'm going to now introduce some of the panelists, or all of the panelists. Then we'll get into the discussions. I'm going to start with Lillian Pierson. Lillian thanks very much for being on the panel. You are in data science. You focus on training executives, students, and you're really a coach but with a lot of data science expertise based in Thailand, so welcome. >> Thank you, thank you so much for having me. >> Dave: You're very welcome. And so, I want to start with sort of when you focus on training people, data science, where do you start? >> Well it depends on the course that I'm teaching. But I try and start at the beginning so for my Big Data course, I actually start back at the fundamental concepts and definitions they would even need to understand in order to understand the basics of what Big Data is, data engineering. So, terms like data governance. Going into the vocabulary that makes up the very introduction of the course, so that later on the students can really grasp the concepts I present to them. You know I'm teaching a deep learning course as well, so in that case I start at a lot more advanced concepts. So it just really depends on the level of the course. >> Great, and we're going to come back to this topic of women in tech. But you know, we looked at some CUBE data the other day. About 17% of the technology industry comprises women. And so we're a little bit over that on our data science panel, we're about 20% today. So we'll come back to that topic. But I don't know if there's anything you would add? >> I'm really passionate about women in tech and women who code, in particular. And I'm connected with a lot of female programmers through Instagram. And we're supporting each other. So I'd love to take any questions you have on what we're doing in that space. At least as far as what's happening across the Instagram platform. >> Great, we'll circle back to that. All right, let me introduce Chris Penn. Chris, Boston based, all right, SMI. Chris is a marketing expert. Really trying to help people understand how to get, turn data into value from a marketing perspective. It's a very important topic. Not only because we get people to buy stuff but also understanding some of the risks associated with things like GDPR, which is coming up. So Chris, tell us a little bit about your background and your practice. >> So I actually started in IT and worked at a start up. And that's where I made the transition to marketing. Because marketing has much better parties. But what's really interesting about the way data science is infiltrating marketing is the technology came in first. You know, everything went digital. And now we're at a point where there's so much data. And most marketers, they kind of got into marketing as sort of the arts and crafts field. And are realizing now, they need a very strong, mathematical, statistical background. So one of the things, Adam, the reason why we're here and IBM is helping out tremendously is, making a lot of the data more accessible to people who do not have a data science background and probably never will. >> Great, okay thank you. I'm going to introduce Ronald Van Loon. Ronald, your practice is really all about helping people extract value out of data, driving competitive advantage, business advantage, or organizational excellence. Tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, and your practice. >> Basically, I've three different backgrounds. On one hand, I'm a director at a data consultancy firm called Adversitement. Where we help companies to become data driven. Mainly large companies. I'm an advisory board member at Simply Learn, which is an e-learning platform, especially also for big data analytics. And on the other hand I'm a blogger and I host a series of webinars. >> Okay, great, now Dez, Dez Blanchfield, I met you on Twitter, you know, probably a couple of years ago. We first really started to collaborate last year. We've spend a fair amount of time together. You are a data scientist, but you're also a jack of all trades. You've got a technology background. You sit on a number of boards. You work very active with public policy. So tell us a little bit more about what you're doing these days, a little bit more about your background. >> Sure, I think my primary challenge these days is communication. Trying to join the dots between my technical background and deeply technical pedigree, to just plain English, every day language, and business speak. So bridging that technical world with what's happening in the boardroom. Toe to toe with the geeks to plain English to execs in boards. And just hand hold them and steward them through the journey of the challenges they're facing. Whether it's the enormous rapid of change and the pace of change, that's just almost exhaustive and causing them to sprint. But not just sprint in one race but in multiple lanes at the same time. As well as some of the really big things that are coming up, that we've seen like GDPR. So it's that communication challenge and just hand holding people through that journey and that mix of technical and commercial experience. >> Great, thank you, and finally Joe Caserta. Founder and president of Caserta Concepts. Joe you're a practitioner. You're in the front lines, helping organizations, similar to Ronald. Extracting value from data. Translate that into competitive advantage. Tell us a little bit about what you're doing these days in Caserta Concepts. >> Thanks Dave, thanks for having me. Yeah, so Caserta's been around. I've been doing this for 30 years now. And natural progressions have been just getting more from application development, to data warehousing, to big data analytics, to data science. Very, very organically, that's just because it's where businesses need the help the most, over the years. And right now, the big focus is governance. At least in my world. Trying to govern when you have a bunch of disparate data coming from a bunch of systems that you have no control over, right? Like social media, and third party data systems. Bringing it in and how to you organize it? How do you ingest it? How do you govern it? How do you keep it safe? And also help to define ownership of the data within an organization within an enterprise? That's also a very hot topic. Which ties back into GDPR. >> Great, okay, so we're going to be unpacking a lot of topics associated with the expertise that these individuals have. I'm going to bring in Jim Kobielus, to the conversation. Jim, the newest Wikibon analyst. And newest member of the SiliconANGLE Media Team. Jim, get us started off. >> Yeah, so we're at an event, at an IBM event where machine learning and data science are at the heart of it. There are really three core themes here. Machine learning and data science, on the one hand. Unified governance on the other. And hybrid data management. I want to circle back or focus on machine learning. Machine learning is the coin of the realm, right now in all things data. Machine learning is the heart of AI. Machine learning, everybody is going, hiring, data scientists to do machine learning. I want to get a sense from our panel, who are experts in this area, what are the chief innovations and trends right now on machine learning. Not deep learning, the core of machine learning. What's super hot? What's in terms of new techniques, new technologies, new ways of organizing teams to build and to train machine learning models? I'd like to open it up. Let's just start with Lillian. What are your thoughts about trends in machine learning? What's really hot? >> It's funny that you excluded deep learning from the response for this, because I think the hottest space in machine learning is deep learning. And deep learning is machine learning. I see a lot of collaborative platforms coming out, where people, data scientists are able to work together with other sorts of data professionals to reduce redundancies in workflows. And create more efficient data science systems. >> Is there much uptake of these crowd sourcing environments for training machine learning wells. Like CrowdFlower, or Amazon Mechanical Turk, or Mighty AI? Is that a huge trend in terms of the workflow of data science or machine learning, a lot of that? >> I don't see that crowdsourcing is like, okay maybe I've been out of the crowdsourcing space for a while. But I was working with Standby Task Force back in 2013. And we were doing a lot of crowdsourcing. And I haven't seen the industry has been increasing, but I could be wrong. I mean, because there's no, if you're building automation models, most of the, a lot of the work that's being crowdsourced could actually be automated if someone took the time to just build the scripts and build the models. And so I don't imagine that, that's going to be a trend that's increasing. >> Well, automation machine learning pipeline is fairly hot, in terms of I'm seeing more and more research. Google's doing a fair amount of automated machine learning. The panel, what do you think about automation, in terms of the core modeling tasks involved in machine learning. Is that coming along? Are data scientists in danger of automating themselves out of a job? >> I don't think there's a risk of data scientist's being put out of a job. Let's just put that on the thing. I do think we need to get a bit clearer about this meme of the mythical unicorn. But to your call point about machine learning, I think what you'll see, we saw the cloud become baked into products, just as a given. I think machine learning is already crossed this threshold. We just haven't necessarily noticed or caught up. And if we look at, we're at an IBM event, so let's just do a call out for them. The data science experience platform, for example. Machine learning's built into a whole range of things around algorithm and data classification. And there's an assisted, guided model for how you get to certain steps, where you don't actually have to understand how machine learning works. You don't have to understand how the algorithms work. It shows you the different options you've got and you can choose them. So you might choose regression. And it'll give you different options on how to do that. So I think we've already crossed this threshold of baking in machine learning and baking in the data science tools. And we've seen that with Cloud and other technologies where, you know, the Office 365 is not, you can't get a non Cloud Office 365 account, right? I think that's already happened in machine learning. What we're seeing though, is organizations even as large as the Googles still in catch up mode, in my view, on some of the shift that's taken place. So we've seen them write little games and apps where people do doodles and then it runs through the ML library and says, "Well that's a cow, or a unicorn, or a duck." And you get awards, and gold coins, and whatnot. But you know, as far as 12 years ago I was working on a project, where we had full size airplanes acting as drones. And we mapped with two and 3-D imagery. With 2-D high res imagery and LiDAR for 3-D point Clouds. We were finding poles and wires for utility companies, using ML before it even became a trend. And baking it right into the tools. And used to store on our web page and clicked and pointed on. >> To counter Lillian's point, it's not crowdsourcing but crowd sharing that's really powering a lot of the rapid leaps forward. If you look at, you know, DSX from IBM. Or you look at Node-RED, huge number of free workflows that someone has probably already done the thing that you are trying to do. Go out and find in the libraries, through Jupyter and R Notebooks, there's an ability-- >> Chris can you define before you go-- >> Chris: Sure. >> This is great, crowdsourcing versus crowd sharing. What's the distinction? >> Well, so crowdsourcing, kind of, where in the context of the question you ask is like I'm looking for stuff that other people, getting people to do stuff that, for me. It's like asking people to mine classifieds. Whereas crowd sharing, someone has done the thing already, it already exists. You're not purpose built, saying, "Jim, help me build this thing." It's like, "Oh Jim, you already "built this thing, cool. "So can I fork it and make my own from it?" >> Okay, I see what you mean, keep going. >> And then, again, going back to earlier. In terms of the advancements. Really deep learning, it probably is a good idea to just sort of define these things. Machine learning is how machines do things without being explicitly programmed to do them. Deep learning's like if you can imagine a stack of pancakes, right? Each pancake is a type of machine learning algorithm. And your data is the syrup. You pour the data on it. It goes from layer, to layer, to layer, to layer, and what you end up with at the end is breakfast. That's the easiest analogy for what deep learning is. Now imagine a stack of pancakes, 500 or 1,000 high, that's where deep learning's going now. >> Sure, multi layered machine learning models, essentially, that have the ability to do higher levels of abstraction. Like image analysis, Lillian? >> I had a comment to add about automation and data science. Because there are a lot of tools that are able to, or applications that are able to use data science algorithms and output results. But the reason that data scientists aren't in risk of losing their jobs, is because just because you can get the result, you also have to be able to interpret it. Which means you have to understand it. And that involves deep math and statistical understanding. Plus domain expertise. So, okay, great, you took out the coding element but that doesn't mean you can codify a person's ability to understand and apply that insight. >> Dave: Joe, you have something to add? >> I could just add that I see the trend. Really, the reason we're talking about it today is machine learning is not necessarily, it's not new, like Dez was saying. But what's different is the accessibility of it now. It's just so easily accessible. All of the tools that are coming out, for data, have machine learning built into it. So the machine learning algorithms, which used to be a black art, you know, years ago, now is just very easily accessible. That you can get, it's part of everyone's toolbox. And the other reason that we're talking about it more, is that data science is starting to become a core curriculum in higher education. Which is something that's new, right? That didn't exist 10 years ago? But over the past five years, I'd say, you know, it's becoming more and more easily accessible for education. So now, people understand it. And now we have it accessible in our tool sets. So now we can apply it. And I think that's, those two things coming together is really making it becoming part of the standard of doing analytics. And I guess the last part is, once we can train the machines to start doing the analytics, right? And get smarter as it ingests more data. And then we can actually take that and embed it in our applications. That's the part that you still need data scientists to create that. But once we can have standalone appliances that are intelligent, that's when we're going to start seeing, really, machine learning and artificial intelligence really start to take off even more. >> Dave: So I'd like to switch gears a little bit and bring Ronald on. >> Okay, yes. >> Here you go, there. >> Ronald, the bromide in this sort of big data world we live in is, the data is the new oil. You got to be a data driven company and many other cliches. But when you talk to organizations and you start to peel the onion. You find that most companies really don't have a good way to connect data with business impact and business value. What are you seeing with your clients and just generally in the community, with how companies are doing that? How should they do that? I mean, is that something that is a viable approach? You don't see accountants, for example, quantifying the value of data on a balance sheet. There's no standards for doing that. And so it's sort of this fuzzy concept. How are and how should organizations take advantage of data and turn it into value. >> So, I think in general, if you look how companies look at data. They have departments and within the departments they have tools specific for this department. And what you see is that there's no central, let's say, data collection. There's no central management of governance. There's no central management of quality. There's no central management of security. Each department is manages their data on their own. So if you didn't ask, on one hand, "Okay, how should they do it?" It's basically go back to the drawing table and say, "Okay, how should we do it?" We should collect centrally, the data. And we should take care for central governance. We should take care for central data quality. We should take care for centrally managing this data. And look from a company perspective and not from a department perspective what the value of data is. So, look at the perspective from your whole company. And this means that it has to be brought on one end to, whether it's from C level, where most of them still fail to understand what it really means. And what the impact can be for that company. >> It's a hard problem. Because data by its' very nature is now so decentralized. But Chris you have a-- >> The thing I want to add to that is, think about in terms of valuing data. Look at what it would cost you for data breach. Like what is the expensive of having your data compromised. If you don't have governance. If you don't have policy in place. Look at the major breaches of the last couple years. And how many billions of dollars those companies lost in market value, and trust, and all that stuff. That's one way you can value data very easily. "What will it cost us if we mess this up?" >> So a lot of CEOs will hear that and say, "Okay, I get it. "I have to spend to protect myself, "but I'd like to make a little money off of this data thing. "How do I do that?" >> Well, I like to think of it, you know, I think data's definitely an asset within an organization. And is becoming more and more of an asset as the years go by. But data is still a raw material. And that's the way I think about it. In order to actually get the value, just like if you're creating any product, you start with raw materials and then you refine it. And then it becomes a product. For data, data is a raw material. You need to refine it. And then the insight is the product. And that's really where the value is. And the insight is absolutely, you can monetize your insight. >> So data is, abundant insights are scarce. >> Well, you know, actually you could say that intermediate between insights and the data are the models themselves. The statistical, predictive, machine learning models. That are a crystallization of insights that have been gained by people called data scientists. What are your thoughts on that? Are statistical, predictive, machine learning models something, an asset, that companies, organizations, should manage governance of on a centralized basis or not? >> Well the models are essentially the refinery system, right? So as you're refining your data, you need to have process around how you exactly do that. Just like refining anything else. It needs to be controlled and it needs to be governed. And I think that data is no different from that. And I think that it's very undisciplined right now, in the market or in the industry. And I think maturing that discipline around data science, I think is something that's going to be a very high focus in this year and next. >> You were mentioning, "How do you make money from data?" Because there's all this risk associated with security breaches. But at the risk of sounding simplistic, you can generate revenue from system optimization, or from developing products and services. Using data to develop products and services that better meet the demands and requirements of your markets. So that you can sell more. So either you are using data to earn more money. Or you're using data to optimize your system so you have less cost. And that's a simple answer for how you're going to be making money from the data. But yes, there is always the counter to that, which is the security risks. >> Well, and my question really relates to, you know, when you think of talking to C level executives, they kind of think about running the business, growing the business, and transforming the business. And a lot of times they can't fund these transformations. And so I would agree, there's many, many opportunities to monetize data, cut costs, increase revenue. But organizations seem to struggle to either make a business case. And actually implement that transformation. >> Dave, I'd love to have a crack at that. I think this conversation epitomizes the type of things that are happening in board rooms and C suites already. So we've really quickly dived into the detail of data. And the detail of machine learning. And the detail of data science, without actually stopping and taking a breath and saying, "Well, we've "got lots of it, but what have we got? "Where is it? "What's the value of it? "Is there any value in it at all?" And, "How much time and money should we invest in it?" For example, we talk of being about a resource. I look at data as a utility. When I turn the tap on to get a drink of water, it's there as a utility. I counted it being there but I don't always sample the quality of the water and I probably should. It could have Giardia in it, right? But what's interesting is I trust the water at home, in Sydney. Because we have a fairly good experience with good quality water. If I were to go to some other nation. I probably wouldn't trust that water. And I think, when you think about it, what's happening in organizations. It's almost the same as what we're seeing here today. We're having a lot of fun, diving into the detail. But what we've forgotten to do is ask the question, "Well why is data even important? "What's the reasoning to the business? "Why are we in business? "What are we doing as an organization? "And where does data fit into that?" As opposed to becoming so fixated on data because it's a media hyped topic. I think once you can wind that back a bit and say, "Well, we have lot's of data, "but is it good data? "Is it quality data? "Where's it coming from? "Is it ours? "Are we allowed to have it? "What treatment are we allowed to give that data?" As you said, "Are we controlling it? "And where are we controlling it? "Who owns it?" There's so many questions to be asked. But the first question I like to ask people in plain English is, "Well is there any value "in data in the first place? "What decisions are you making that data can help drive? "What things are in your organizations, "KPIs and milestones you're trying to meet "that data might be a support?" So then instead of becoming fixated with data as a thing in itself, it becomes part of your DNA. Does that make sense? >> Think about what money means. The Economists' Rhyme, "Money is a measure for, "a systems for, a medium, a measure, and exchange." So it's a medium of exchange. A measure of value, a way to exchange something. And a way to store value. Data, good clean data, well governed, fits all four of those. So if you're trying to figure out, "How do we make money out of stuff." Figure out how money works. And then figure out how you map data to it. >> So if we approach and we start with a company, we always start with business case, which is quite clear. And defined use case, basically, start with a team on one hand, marketing people, sales people, operational people, and also the whole data science team. So start with this case. It's like, defining, basically a movie. If you want to create the movie, You know where you're going to. You know what you want to achieve to create the customer experience. And this is basically the same with a business case. Where you define, "This is the case. "And this is how we're going to derive value, "start with it and deliver value within a month." And after the month, you check, "Okay, where are we and how can we move forward? "And what's the value that we've brought?" >> Now I as well, start with business case. I've done thousands of business cases in my life, with organizations. And unless that organization was kind of a data broker, the business case rarely has a discreet component around data. Is that changing, in your experience? >> Yes, so we guide companies into be data driven. So initially, indeed, they don't like to use the data. They don't like to use the analysis. So that's why, how we help. And is it changing? Yes, they understand that they need to change. But changing people is not always easy. So, you see, it's hard if you're not involved and you're not guiding it, they fall back in doing the daily tasks. So it's changing, but it's a hard change. >> Well and that's where this common parlance comes in. And Lillian, you, sort of, this is what you do for a living, is helping people understand these things, as you've been sort of evangelizing that common parlance. But do you have anything to add? >> I wanted to add that for organizational implementations, another key component to success is to start small. Start in one small line of business. And then when you've mastered that area and made it successful, then try and deploy it in more areas of the business. And as far as initializing big data implementation, that's generally how to do it successfully. >> There's the whole issue of putting a value on data as a discreet asset. Then there's the issue, how do you put a value on a data lake? Because a data lake, is essentially an asset you build on spec. It's an exploratory archive, essentially, of all kinds of data that might yield some insights, but you have to have a team of data scientists doing exploration and modeling. But it's all on spec. How do you put a value on a data lake? And at what point does the data lake itself become a burden? Because you got to store that data and manage it. At what point do you drain that lake? At what point, do the costs of maintaining that lake outweigh the opportunity costs of not holding onto it? >> So each Hadoop note is approximately $20,000 per year cost for storage. So I think that there needs to be a test and a diagnostic, before even inputting, ingesting the data and storing it. "Is this actually going to be useful? "What value do we plan to create from this?" Because really, you can't store all the data. And it's a lot cheaper to store data in Hadoop then it was in traditional systems but it's definitely not free. So people need to be applying this test before even ingesting the data. Why do we need this? What business value? >> I think the question we need to also ask around this is, "Why are we building data lakes "in the first place? "So what's the function it's going to perform for you?" There's been a huge drive to this idea. "We need a data lake. "We need to put it all somewhere." But invariably they become data swamps. And we only half jokingly say that because I've seen 90 day projects turn from a great idea, to a really bad nightmare. And as Lillian said, it is cheaper in some ways to put it into a HDFS platform, in a technical sense. But when we look at all the fully burdened components, it's actually more expensive to find Hadoop specialists and Spark specialists to maintain that cluster. And invariably I'm finding that big data, quote unquote, is not actually so much lots of data, it's complex data. And as Lillian said, "You don't always "need to store it all." So I think if we go back to the question of, "What's the function of a data lake in the first place? "Why are we building one?" And then start to build some fully burdened cost components around that. We'll quickly find that we don't actually need a data lake, per se. We just need an interim data store. So we might take last years' data and tokenize it, and analyze it, and do some analytics on it, and just keep the meta data. So I think there is this rush, for a whole range of reasons, particularly vendor driven. To build data lakes because we think they're a necessity, when in reality they may just be an interim requirement and we don't need to keep them for a long term. >> I'm going to attempt to, the last few questions, put them all together. And I think, they all belong together because one of the reasons why there's such hesitation about progress within the data world is because there's just so much accumulated tech debt already. Where there's a new idea. We go out and we build it. And six months, three years, it really depends on how big the idea is, millions of dollars is spent. And then by the time things are built the idea is pretty much obsolete, no one really cares anymore. And I think what's exciting now is that the speed to value is just so much faster than it's ever been before. And I think that, you know, what makes that possible is this concept of, I don't think of a data lake as a thing. I think of a data lake as an ecosystem. And that ecosystem has evolved so much more, probably in the last three years than it has in the past 30 years. And it's exciting times, because now once we have this ecosystem in place, if we have a new idea, we can actually do it in minutes not years. And that's really the exciting part. And I think, you know, data lake versus a data swamp, comes back to just traditional data architecture. And if you architect your data lake right, you're going to have something that's substantial, that's you're going to be able to harness and grow. If you don't do it right. If you just throw data. If you buy Hadoop cluster or a Cloud platform and just throw your data out there and say, "We have a lake now." yeah, you're going to create a mess. And I think taking the time to really understand, you know, the new paradigm of data architecture and modern data engineering, and actually doing it in a very disciplined way. If you think about it, what we're doing is we're building laboratories. And if you have a shabby, poorly built laboratory, the best scientist in the world isn't going to be able to prove his theories. So if you have a well built laboratory and a clean room, then, you know a scientist can get what he needs done very, very, very efficiently. And that's the goal, I think, of data management today. >> I'd like to just quickly add that I totally agree with the challenge between on premise and Cloud mode. And I think one of the strong themes of today is going to be the hybrid data management challenge. And I think organizations, some organizations, have rushed to adopt Cloud. And thinking it's a really good place to dump the data and someone else has to manage the problem. And then they've ended up with a very expensive death by 1,000 cuts in some senses. And then others have been very reluctant as a result of not gotten access to rapid moving and disruptive technology. So I think there's a really big challenge to get a basic conversation going around what's the value using Cloud technology as in adopting it, versus what are the risks? And when's the right time to move? For example, should we Cloud Burst for workloads? Do we move whole data sets in there? You know, moving half a petabyte of data into a Cloud platform back is a non-trivial exercise. But moving a terabyte isn't actually that big a deal anymore. So, you know, should we keep stuff behind the firewalls? I'd be interested in seeing this week where 80% of the data, supposedly is. And just push out for Cloud tools, machine learning, data science tools, whatever they might be, cognitive analytics, et cetera. And keep the bulk of the data on premise. Or should we just move whole spools into the Cloud? There is no one size fits all. There's no silver bullet. Every organization has it's own quirks and own nuances they need to think through and make a decision themselves. >> Very often, Dez, organizations have zonal architectures so you'll have a data lake that consists of a no sequel platform that might be used for say, mobile applications. A Hadoop platform that might be used for unstructured data refinement, so forth. A streaming platform, so forth and so on. And then you'll have machine learning models that are built and optimized for those different platforms. So, you know, think of it in terms of then, your data lake, is a set of zones that-- >> It gets even more complex just playing on that theme, when you think about what Cisco started, called Folk Computing. I don't really like that term. But edge analytics, or computing at the edge. We've seen with the internet coming along where we couldn't deliver everything with a central data center. So we started creating this concept of content delivery networks, right? I think the same thing, I know the same thing has happened in data analysis and data processing. Where we've been pulling social media out of the Cloud, per se, and bringing it back to a central source. And doing analytics on it. But when you think of something like, say for example, when the Dreamliner 787 from Boeing came out, this airplane created 1/2 a terabyte of data per flight. Now let's just do some quick, back of the envelope math. There's 87,400 fights a day, just in the domestic airspace in the USA alone, per day. Now 87,400 by 1/2 a terabyte, that's 43 point five petabytes a day. You physically can't copy that from quote unquote in the Cloud, if you'll pardon the pun, back to the data center. So now we've got the challenge, a lot of our Enterprise data's behind a firewall, supposedly 80% of it. But what's out at the edge of the network. Where's the value in that data? So there are zonal challenges. Now what do I do with my Enterprise versus the open data, the mobile data, the machine data. >> Yeah, we've seen some recent data from IDC that says, "About 43% of the data "is going to stay at the edge." We think that, that's way understated, just given the examples. We think it's closer to 90% is going to stay at the edge. >> Just on the airplane topic, right? So Airbus wasn't going to be outdone. Boeing put 4,000 sensors or something in their 787 Dreamliner six years ago. Airbus just announced an 83, 81,000 with 10,000 sensors in it. Do the same math. Now the FAA in the US said that all aircraft and all carriers have to be, by early next year, I think it's like March or April next year, have to be at the same level of BIOS. Or the same capability of data collection and so forth. It's kind of like a mini GDPR for airlines. So with the 83, 81,000 with 10,000 sensors, that becomes two point five terabytes per flight. If you do the math, it's 220 petabytes of data just in one day's traffic, domestically in the US. Now, it's just so mind boggling that we're going to have to completely turn our thinking on its' head, on what do we do behind the firewall? What do we do in the Cloud versus what we might have to do in the airplane? I mean, think about edge analytics in the airplane processing data, as you said, Jim, streaming analytics in flight. >> Yeah that's a big topic within Wikibon, so, within the team. Me and David Floyer, and my other colleagues. They're talking about the whole notion of edge architecture. Not only will most of the data be persisted at the edge, most of the deep learning models like TensorFlow will be executed at the edge. To some degree, the training of those models will happen in the Cloud. But much of that will be pushed in a federated fashion to the edge, or at least I'm predicting. We're already seeing some industry moves in that direction, in terms of architectures. Google has a federated training, project or initiative. >> Chris: Look at TensorFlow Lite. >> Which is really fascinating for it's geared to IOT, I'm sorry, go ahead. >> Look at TensorFlow Lite. I mean in the announcement of having every Android device having ML capabilities, is Google's essential acknowledgment, "We can't do it all." So we need to essentially, sort of like a setting at home. Everyone's smartphone top TV box just to help with the processing. >> Now we're talking about this, this sort of leads to this IOT discussion but I want to underscore the operating model. As you were saying, "You can't just "lift and shift to the Cloud." You're not going to, CEOs aren't going to get the billion dollar hit by just doing that. So you got to change the operating model. And that leads to, this discussion of IOT. And an entirely new operating model. >> Well, there are companies that are like Sisense who have worked with Intel. And they've taken this concept. They've taken the business logic and not just putting it in the chip, but actually putting it in memory, in the chip. So as data's going through the chip it's not just actually being processed but it's actually being baked in memory. So level one, two, and three cache. Now this is a game changer. Because as Chris was saying, even if we were to get the data back to a central location, the compute load, I saw a real interesting thing from I think it was Google the other day, one of the guys was doing a talk. And he spoke about what it meant to add cognitive and voice processing into just the Android platform. And they used some number, like that had, double the amount of compute they had, just to add voice for free, to the Android platform. Now even for Google, that's a nontrivial exercise. So as Chris was saying, I think we have to again, flip it on its' head and say, "How much can we put "at the edge of the network?" Because think about these phones. I mean, even your fridge and microwave, right? We put a man on the moon with something that these days, we make for $89 at home, on the Raspberry Pie computer, right? And even that was 1,000 times more powerful. When we start looking at what's going into the chips, we've seen people build new, not even GPUs, but deep learning and stream analytics capable chips. Like Google, for example. That's going to make its' way into consumer products. So that, now the compute capacity in phones, is going to, I think transmogrify in some ways because there is some magic in there. To the point where, as Chris was saying, "We're going to have the smarts in our phone." And a lot of that workload is going to move closer to us. And only the metadata that we need to move is going to go centrally. >> Well here's the thing. The edge isn't the technology. The edge is actually the people. When you look at, for example, the MIT language Scratch. This is kids programming language. It's drag and drop. You know, kids can assemble really fun animations and make little movies. We're training them to build for IOT. Because if you look at a system like Node-RED, it's an IBM interface that is drag and drop. Your workflow is for IOT. And you can push that to a device. Scratch has a converter for doing those. So the edge is what those thousands and millions of kids who are learning how to code, learning how to think architecturally and algorithmically. What they're going to create that is beyond what any of us can possibly imagine. >> I'd like to add one other thing, as well. I think there's a topic we've got to start tabling. And that is what I refer to as the gravity of data. So when you think about how planets are formed, right? Particles of dust accrete. They form into planets. Planets develop gravity. And the reason we're not flying into space right now is that there's gravitational force. Even though it's one of the weakest forces, it keeps us on our feet. Oftentimes in organizations, I ask them to start thinking about, "Where is the center "of your universe with regard to the gravity of data." Because if you can follow the center of your universe and the gravity of your data, you can often, as Chris is saying, find where the business logic needs to be. And it could be that you got to think about a storage problem. You can think about a compute problem. You can think about a streaming analytics problem. But if you can find where the center of your universe and the center of your gravity for your data is, often you can get a really good insight into where you can start focusing on where the workloads are going to be where the smarts are going to be. Whether it's small, medium, or large. >> So this brings up the topic of data governance. One of the themes here at Fast Track Your Data is GDPR. What it means. It's one of the reasons, I think IBM selected Europe, generally, Munich specifically. So let's talk about GDPR. We had a really interesting discussion last night. So let's kind of recreate some of that. I'd like somebody in the panel to start with, what is GDPR? And why does it matter, Ronald? >> Yeah, maybe I can start. Maybe a little bit more in general unified governance. So if i talk to companies and I need to explain to them what's governance, I basically compare it with a crime scene. So in a crime scene if something happens, they start with securing all the evidence. So they start sealing the environment. And take care that all the evidence is collected. And on the other hand, you see that they need to protect this evidence. There are all kinds of policies. There are all kinds of procedures. There are all kinds of rules, that need to be followed. To take care that the whole evidence is secured well. And once you start, basically, investigating. So you have the crime scene investigators. You have the research lab. You have all different kind of people. They need to have consent before they can use all this evidence. And the whole reason why they're doing this is in order to collect the villain, the crook. To catch him and on the other hand, once he's there, to convict him. And we do this to have trust in the materials. Or trust in basically, the analytics. And on the other hand to, the public have trust in everything what's happened with the data. So if you look to a company, where data is basically the evidence, this is the value of your data. It's similar to like the evidence within a crime scene. But most companies don't treat it like this. So if we then look to GDPR, GDPR basically shifts the power and the ownership of the data from the company to the person that created it. Which is often, let's say the consumer. And there's a lot of paradox in this. Because all the companies say, "We need to have this customer data. "Because we need to improve the customer experience." So if you make it concrete and let's say it's 1st of June, so GDPR is active. And it's first of June 2018. And I go to iTunes, so I use iTunes. Let's go to iTunes said, "Okay, Apple please "give me access to my data." I want to see which kind of personal information you have stored for me. On the other end, I want to have the right to rectify all this data. I want to be able to change it and give them a different level of how they can use my data. So I ask this to iTunes. And then I say to them, okay, "I basically don't like you anymore. "I want to go to Spotify. "So please transfer all my personal data to Spotify." So that's possible once it's June 18. Then I go back to iTunes and say, "Okay, I don't like it anymore. "Please reduce my consent. "I withdraw my consent. "And I want you to remove all my "personal data for everything that you use." And I go to Spotify and I give them, let's say, consent for using my data. So this is a shift where you can, as a person be the owner of the data. And this has a lot of consequences, of course, for organizations, how to manage this. So it's quite simple for the consumer. They get the power, it's maturing the whole law system. But it's a big consequence of course for organizations. >> This is going to be a nightmare for marketers. But fill in some of the gaps there. >> Let's go back, so GDPR, the General Data Protection Regulation, was passed by the EU in 2016, in May of 2016. It is, as Ronald was saying, it's four basic things. The right to privacy. The right to be forgotten. Privacy built into systems by default. And the right to data transfer. >> Joe: It takes effect next year. >> It is already in effect. GDPR took effect in May of 2016. The enforcement penalties take place the 25th of May 2018. Now here's where, there's two things on the penalty side that are important for everyone to know. Now number one, GDPR is extra territorial. Which means that an EU citizen, anywhere on the planet has GDPR, goes with them. So say you're a pizza shop in Nebraska. And an EU citizen walks in, orders a pizza. Gives her the credit card and stuff like that. If you for some reason, store that data, GDPR now applies to you, Mr. Pizza shop, whether or not you do business in the EU. Because an EU citizen's data is with you. Two, the penalties are much stiffer then they ever have been. In the old days companies could simply write off penalties as saying, "That's the cost of doing business." With GDPR the penalties are up to 4% of your annual revenue or 20 million Euros, whichever is greater. And there may be criminal sanctions, charges, against key company executives. So there's a lot of questions about how this is going to be implemented. But one of the first impacts you'll see from a marketing perspective is all the advertising we do, targeting people by their age, by their personally identifiable information, by their demographics. Between now and May 25th 2018, a good chunk of that may have to go away because there's no way for you to say, "Well this person's an EU citizen, this person's not." People give false information all the time online. So how do you differentiate it? Every company, regardless of whether they're in the EU or not will have to adapt to it, or deal with the penalties. >> So Lillian, as a consumer this is designed to protect you. But you had a very negative perception of this regulation. >> I've looked over the GDPR and to me it actually looks like a socialist agenda. It looks like (panel laughs) no, it looks like a full assault on free enterprise and capitalism. And on its' face from a legal perspective, its' completely and wholly unenforceable. Because they're assigning jurisdictional rights to the citizen. But what are they going to do? They're going to go to Nebraska and they're going to call in the guy from the pizza shop? And call him into what court? The EU court? It's unenforceable from a legal perspective. And if you write a law that's unenforceable, you know, it's got to be enforceable in every element. It can't be just, "Oh, we're only "going to enforce it for Facebook and for Google. "But it's not enforceable for," it needs to be written so that it's a complete and actionable law. And it's not written in that way. And from a technological perspective it's not implementable. I think you said something like 652 EU regulators or political people voted for this and 10 voted against it. But what do they know about actually implementing it? Is it possible? There's all sorts of regulations out there that aren't possible to implement. I come from an environmental engineering background. And it's absolutely ridiculous because these agencies will pass laws that actually, it's not possible to implement those in practice. The cost would be too great. And it's not even needed. So I don't know, I just saw this and I thought, "You know, if the EU wants to," what they're essentially trying to do is regulate what the rest of the world does on the internet. And if they want to build their own internet like China has and police it the way that they want to. But Ronald here, made an analogy between data, and free enterprise, and a crime scene. Now to me, that's absolutely ridiculous. What does data and someone signing up for an email list have to do with a crime scene? And if EU wants to make it that way they can police their own internet. But they can't go across the world. They can't go to Singapore and tell Singapore, or go to the pizza shop in Nebraska and tell them how to run their business. >> You know, EU overreach in the post Brexit era, of what you're saying has a lot of validity. How far can the tentacles of the EU reach into other sovereign nations. >> What court are they going to call them into? >> Yeah. >> I'd like to weigh in on this. There are lots of unknowns, right? So I'd like us to focus on the things we do know. We've already dealt with similar situations before. In Australia, we introduced a goods and sales tax. Completely foreign concept. Everything you bought had 10% on it. No one knew how to deal with this. It was a completely new practice in accounting. There's a whole bunch of new software that had to be written. MYRB had to have new capability, but we coped. No one actually went to jail yet. It's decades later, for not complying with GST. So what it was, was a framework on how to shift from non sales tax related revenue collection. To sales tax related revenue collection. I agree that there are some egregious things built into this. I don't disagree with that at all. But I think if I put my slightly broader view of the world hat on, we have well and truly gone past the point in my mind, where data was respected, data was treated in a sensible way. I mean I get emails from companies I've never done business with. And when I follow it up, it's because I did business with a credit card company, that gave it to a service provider, that thought that I was going to, when I bought a holiday to come to Europe, that I might want travel insurance. Now some might say there's value in that. And other's say there's not, there's the debate. But let's just focus on what we're talking about. We're talking about a framework for governance of the treatment of data. If we remove all the emotive component, what we are talking about is a series of guidelines, backed by laws, that say, "We would like you to do this," in an ideal world. But I don't think anyone's going to go to jail, on day one. They may go to jail on day 180. If they continue to do nothing about it. So they're asking you to sort of sit up and pay attention. Do something about it. There's a whole bunch of relief around how you approach it. The big thing for me, is there's no get out of jail card, right? There is no get out of jail card for not complying. But there's plenty of support. I mean, we're going to have ambulance chasers everywhere. We're going to have class actions. We're going to have individual suits. The greatest thing to do right now is get into GDPR law. Because you seem to think data scientists are unicorn? >> What kind of life is that if there's ambulance chasers everywhere? You want to live like that? >> Well I think we've seen ad blocking. I use ad blocking as an example, right? A lot of organizations with advertising broke the internet by just throwing too much content on pages, to the point where they're just unusable. And so we had this response with ad blocking. I think in many ways, GDPR is a regional response to a situation where I don't think it's the exact right answer. But it's the next evolutional step. We'll see things evolve over time. >> It's funny you mentioned it because in the United States one of the things that has happened, is that with the change in political administrations, the regulations on what companies can do with your data have actually been laxened, to the point where, for example, your internet service provider can resell your browsing history, with or without your consent. Or your consent's probably buried in there, on page 47. And so, GDPR is kind of a response to saying, "You know what? "You guys over there across the Atlantic "are kind of doing some fairly "irresponsible things with what you allow companies to do." Now, to Lillian's point, no one's probably going to go after the pizza shop in Nebraska because they don't do business in the EU. They don't have an EU presence. And it's unlikely that an EU regulator's going to get on a plane from Brussels and fly to Topeka and say, or Omaha, sorry, "Come on Joe, let's get the pizza shop in order here." But for companies, particularly Cloud companies, that have offices and operations within the EU, they have to sit up and pay attention. So if you have any kind of EU operations, or any kind of fiscal presence in the EU, you need to get on board. >> But to Lillian's point it becomes a boondoggle for lawyers in the EU who want to go after deep pocketed companies like Facebook and Google. >> What's the value in that? It seems like regulators are just trying to create work for themselves. >> What about the things that say advertisers can do, not so much with the data that they have? With the data that they don't have. In other words, they have people called data scientists who build models that can do inferences on sparse data. And do amazing things in terms of personalization. What do you do about all those gray areas? Where you got machine learning models and so forth? >> But it applies-- >> It applies to personally identifiable information. But if you have a talented enough data scientist, you don't need the PII or even the inferred characteristics. If a certain type of behavior happens on your website, for example. And this path of 17 pages almost always leads to a conversion, it doesn't matter who you are or where you're coming from. If you're a good enough data scientist, you can build a model that will track that. >> Like you know, target, infer some young woman was pregnant. And they inferred correctly even though that was never divulged. I mean, there's all those gray areas that, how can you stop that slippery slope? >> Well I'm going to weigh in really quickly. A really interesting experiment for people to do. When people get very emotional about it I say to them, "Go to Google.com, "view source, put it in seven point Courier "font in Word and count how many pages it is." I guess you can't guess how many pages? It's 52 pages of seven point Courier font, HTML to render one logo, and a search field, and a click button. Now why do we need 52 pages of HTML source code and Java script just to take a search query. Think about what's being done in that. It's effectively a mini operating system, to figure out who you are, and what you're doing, and where you been. Now is that a good or bad thing? I don't know, I'm not going to make a judgment call. But what I'm saying is we need to stop and take a deep breath and say, "Does anybody need a 52 page, "home page to take a search query?" Because that's just the tip of the iceberg. >> To that point, I like the results that Google gives me. That's why I use Google and not Bing. Because I get better search results. So, yeah, I don't mind if you mine my personal data and give me, our Facebook ads, those are the only ads, I saw in your article that GDPR is going to take out targeted advertising. The only ads in the entire world, that I like are Facebook ads. Because I actually see products I'm interested in. And I'm happy to learn about that. I think, "Oh I want to research that. "I want to see this new line of products "and what are their competitors?" And I like the targeted advertising. I like the targeted search results because it's giving me more of the information that I'm actually interested in. >> And that's exactly what it's about. You can still decide, yourself, if you want to have this targeted advertising. If not, then you don't give consent. If you like it, you give consent. So if a company gives you value, you give consent back. So it's not that it's restricting everything. It's giving consent. And I think it's similar to what happened and the same type of response, what happened, we had the Mad Cow Disease here in Europe, where you had the whole food chain that needed to be tracked. And everybody said, "No, it's not required." But now it's implemented. Everybody in Europe does it. So it's the same, what probably going to happen over here as well. >> So what does GDPR mean for data scientists? >> I think GDPR is, I think it is needed. I think one of the things that may be slowing data science down is fear. People are afraid to share their data. Because they don't know what's going to be done with it. If there are some guidelines around it that should be enforced and I think, you know, I think it's been said but as long as a company could prove that it's doing due diligence to protect your data, I think no one is going to go to jail. I think when there's, you know, we reference a crime scene, if there's a heinous crime being committed, all right, then it's going to become obvious. And then you do go directly to jail. But I think having guidelines and even laws around privacy and protection of data is not necessarily a bad thing. You can do a lot of data, really meaningful data science, without understanding that it's Joe Caserta. All of the demographics about me. All of the characteristics about me as a human being, I think are still on the table. All that they're saying is that you can't go after Joe, himself, directly. And I think that's okay. You know, there's still a lot of things. We could still cure diseases without knowing that I'm Joe Caserta, right? As long as you know everything else about me. And I think that's really at the core, that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to protect the individual and the individual's data about themselves. But I think as far as how it affects data science, you know, a lot of our clients, they're afraid to implement things because they don't exactly understand what the guideline is. And they don't want to go to jail. So they wind up doing nothing. So now that we have something in writing that, at least, it's something that we can work towards, I think is a good thing. >> In many ways, organizations are suffering from the deer in the headlight problem. They don't understand it. And so they just end up frozen in the headlights. But I just want to go back one step if I could. We could get really excited about what it is and is not. But for me, the most critical thing there is to remember though, data breaches are happening. There are over 1,400 data breaches, on average, per day. And most of them are not trivial. And when we saw 1/2 a billion from Yahoo. And then one point one billion and then one point five billion. I mean, think about what that actually means. There were 47,500 Mongodbs breached in an 18 hour window, after an automated upgrade. And they were airlines, they were banks, they were police stations. They were hospitals. So when I think about frameworks like GDPR, I'm less worried about whether I'm going to see ads and be sold stuff. I'm more worried about, and I'll give you one example. My 12 year old son has an account at a platform called Edmodo. Now I'm not going to pick on that brand for any reason but it's a current issue. Something like, I think it was like 19 million children in the world had their username, password, email address, home address, and all this social interaction on this Facebook for kids platform called Edmodo, breached in one night. Now I got my hands on a copy. And everything about my son is there. Now I have a major issue with that. Because I can't do anything to undo that, nothing. The fact that I was able to get a copy, within hours on a dark website, for free. The fact that his first name, last name, email, mobile phone number, all these personal messages from friends. Nobody has the right to allow that to breach on my son. Or your children, or our children. For me, GDPR, is a framework for us to try and behave better about really big issues. Whether it's a socialist issue. Whether someone's got an issue with advertising. I'm actually not interested in that at all. What I'm interested in is companies need to behave much better about the treatment of data when it's the type of data that's being breached. And I get really emotional when it's my son, or someone else's child. Because I don't care if my bank account gets hacked. Because they hedge that. They underwrite and insure themselves and the money arrives back to my bank. But when it's my wife who donated blood and a blood donor website got breached and her details got lost. Even things like sexual preferences. That they ask questions on, is out there. My 12 year old son is out there. Nobody has the right to allow that to happen. For me, GDPR is the framework for us to focus on that. >> Dave: Lillian, is there a comment you have? >> Yeah, I think that, I think that security concerns are 100% and definitely a serious issue. Security needs to be addressed. And I think a lot of the stuff that's happening is due to, I think we need better security personnel. I think we need better people working in the security area where they're actually looking and securing. Because I don't think you can regulate I was just, I wanted to take the microphone back when you were talking about taking someone to jail. Okay, I have a background in law. And if you look at this, you guys are calling it a framework. But it's not a framework. What they're trying to do is take 4% of your business revenues per infraction. They want to say, "If a person signs up "on your email list and you didn't "like, necessarily give whatever "disclaimer that the EU said you need to give. "Per infraction, we're going to take "4% of your business revenue." That's a law, that they're trying to put into place. And you guys are talking about taking people to jail. What jail are you? EU is not a country. What jurisdiction do they have? Like, you're going to take pizza man Joe and put him in the EU jail? Is there an EU jail? Are you going to take them to a UN jail? I mean, it's just on its' face it doesn't hold up to legal tests. I don't understand how they could enforce this. >> I'd like to just answer the question on-- >> Security is a serious issue. I would be extremely upset if I were you. >> I personally know, people who work for companies who've had data breaches. And I respect them all. They're really smart people. They've got 25 plus years in security. And they are shocked that they've allowed a breach to take place. What they've invariably all agreed on is that a whole range of drivers have caused them to get to a bad practice. So then, for example, the donate blood website. The young person who was assist admin with all the right skills and all the right experience just made a basic mistake. They took a db dump of a mysql database before they upgraded their Wordpress website for the business. And they happened to leave it in a folder that was indexable by Google. And so somebody wrote a radio expression to search in Google to find sql backups. Now this person, I personally respect them. I think they're an amazing practitioner. They just made a mistake. So what does that bring us back to? It brings us back to the point that we need a safety net or a framework or whatever you want to call it. Where organizations have checks and balances no matter what they do. Whether it's an upgrade, a backup, a modification, you know. And they all think they do, but invariably we've seen from the hundreds of thousands of breaches, they don't. Now on the point of law, we could debate that all day. I mean the EU does have a remit. If I was caught speeding in Germany, as an Australian, I would be thrown into a German jail. If I got caught as an organization in France, breaching GDPR, I would be held accountable to the law in that region, by the organization pursuing me. So I think it's a bit of a misnomer saying I can't go to an EU jail. I don't disagree with you, totally, but I think it's regional. If I get a speeding fine and break the law of driving fast in EU, it's in the country, in the region, that I'm caught. And I think GDPR's going to be enforced in that same approach. >> All right folks, unfortunately the 60 minutes flew right by. And it does when you have great guests like yourselves. So thank you very much for joining this panel today. And we have an action packed day here. So we're going to cut over. The CUBE is going to have its' interview format starting in about 1/2 hour. And then we cut over to the main tent. Who's on the main tent? Dez, you're doing a main stage presentation today. Data Science is a Team Sport. Hillary Mason, has a breakout session. We also have a breakout session on GDPR and what it means for you. Are you ready for GDPR? Check out ibmgo.com. It's all free content, it's all open. You do have to sign in to see the Hillary Mason and the GDPR sessions. And we'll be back in about 1/2 hour with the CUBE. We'll be running replays all day on SiliconAngle.tv and also ibmgo.com. So thanks for watching everybody. Keep it right there, we'll be back in about 1/2 hour with the CUBE interviews. We're live from Munich, Germany, at Fast Track Your Data. This is Dave Vellante with Jim Kobielus, we'll see you shortly. (electronic music)