(electronic music) >> Live from Toronto, Canada it's The Cube covering Blockchain Futurist Conference 2018. Brought to you by The Cube. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to The Cube live coverage here in Toronto, Canada Ontario for Untraceable presents Blockchain Futurist Conference. Two days we've been here. We're on day two, amazing event here, great community, I'm John Furrier your host. Dave Vellante went back east so he was here yesterday. Our next guest Pablo Gonzales is the Founder and CEO of Genesis Blockchain Technologies, welcome to The Cube thanks for joining me. >> Thank you for having me. >> So I'm glad to have you on. First of all when Bradley Rodder says oh watch out for that guy, you must be smart because we trust Bradley so but you're doing something really cool. The future of trading and exchanges has been a topic that everyone's been talking about but not a lot of people have been actually moving the needle on. You've got some movement here, people doing here but no one's actually had the full package and they're running as fast as they can to do it. You guys have done it. >> We have. >> How? Take a minute, what have you guys done? What is the product? How did you guys do it and what can people use today? >> Thank you. So it's no longer hot air, as you said. A lot of people are saying what they're going to do. We're here to say what we have done which is very different. Yesterday up at the main stage we launched the world's first decentralized exchange on a mobile platform. We're fully licensed by the Costa Rican Commodities Exchange, we have brokerage license, a currency exchange license and a money remittance license. We already possess the licenses, we're not in pursuit of the licenses we have them. What we did obviously we pursued an MNA strategy, we acquired companies that were over a decade in the business and we just transformed them and cryptomized them, as I use the term and launched the exchange with those licenses and platforms. We listed the exchange with over 40 coins. Over four billion dollars of shared market cap and over half a million dollars of daily trading and liquidity. >> So this is right now going on in Costa Rica, mainly if stable. Is it stable? How's the stability there? >> So Costa Rica is extremely stable, they haven't had an army for over 50 years, it's considered a world-class country for banking, for international businesses so much so. Amazon, HP, Intel, all these humongous companies have large operations in the country. >> And their posture to crypto is they've come out formally. >> Yes. >> To state well what's the posture from Costa Rica? >> So they consider cryptocurrencies a commodity and not a security and that's why went on to pursue a commodities exchange license. >> So that opens up doors for you to do this. >> Of course it opens up the doors, think about it. So you can now trade Bitcoin with gold. In our exchange, not as of today we're going to launch that in January, so now you can trade cryptocurrencies with commodities and cryptocurrencies with fiat currencies. >> So I'm just kind of speculating here in terms of my mind where I'm going with this. Almost imagine the shakeup that's coming. It's like a blender, we trading gold and Bitcoin it's just like who would have thought that was possible a year ago? >> That's correct. >> They've been compared, people compare Bitcoin to new digital gold but actually comparing them this is going to shakeup like a blender. >> That's correct. >> Blend up the commodities market. >> Disrupt it. >> What's your vision? What do you see happening? >> I just think that a lot of people are focusing on they say on one of the interviews earlier today, one of the interviewers was asking me is that Bitcoin to the moon? I'm like guys we need to stop. If we want this industry to really grow and develop stop using those analogies. We need to create a community that's larger, we need mass adoption and I think by including the commodities into the equation you're catering to the traditional investors that are a little bit uncomfortable with cryptocurrencies because they don't know about them but they know about gold and then all of a sudden now you compare gold with Bitcoin. >> It brings retail into it. >> Yes. >> It brings a real retail market. >> That's correct. >> You know I just want to say something. I agree with you 100%. These news outlets out there, these other people they tend to focus on the price of Bitcoin and it's almost like okay can we get over that? Yes it's going to go up and down, if you're in the long game it should be 20,000. Okay we can buy that but let's talk about what people are doing. Who's building something? >> Yes. >> That's the focus. So if I ask you now that question, hey Pablo what have you built and what you you going to continue to build if this is a foundational product, what are you guys going to do on top of it? What's the build plan? >> Thank you. So yesterday we launched the decentralized exchange with 40 coins. We're going to add probably between now and December another 110 different tokens. We're doing 20 for now and in January we're launching a centralized exchange so that's where we're going to add the fiat currencies and the commodities. >> What date again? >> End of January. >> Okay got it. >> Then we're going to make an announcement in November at one of the conferences in Malta and so we're reserving the date and everything else for that but in May of next year we're launching over the counter trading desk with full KYC AML you know counter terrorism financing, all of the world class policies and by this time next year we're going to be launching our institutional platform. So we want to be a one stop shop via the currency exchange that we own. We already have the ability from the Central Bank of Costa Rica which is amazing to issue Visa cards. So now our users, besides trading, they can take their crypto with them from their mobile phone, convert it to fiat and pay, you know, for gasoline, buy groceries. >> So I'm an entrepreneur, I got my own cube coin coming out, cube token, security token or utility, what's in it for me? If I asked you Pablo what's in it for me? What do I get out of it as a business? Are people going to start trading my coins? Am I instantly going to have an over the counter so as a business what do I have to worry about? What's the benefit? What matters to me? What's the impact? >> So if you were to be a coin to list on our exchange you mean? Well first of all we all know exchanges now to list on them you know they're changing, some of them I'm not going to say the name. >> They're charging a lot of money. >> Yeah 400 BTC and crazy amounts like this. We are going to charge. It's a business at the end of the day but what we're looking for with the coins that we're going to list is partnerships and seeing what ways we can do more entrepreneurial projects to change the landscape of the industry together as an exchange and a coin because potentially what a coin is is a company. You know what's behind the coin is what's important to us and not the coin itself. As the company develops and progresses so will the coin's price appreciated value or depreciated value and so yes, besides facilitating trading fees and lowering that, up listing and so forth what we're bringing to the table wants to be much more dynamic. >> You got to balance you know business that you got to do with infrastructure build out. It's like the old telecom days you got to build some cell towers before you roll out mobile. You got to build this entire retail global fabric. >> Yes. How does community play in for it? Obviously community is very important. I agree with you that's big time. How are you guys building your community? Tapping into anything else? Obviously Untraceable has got a great community. How are you going to grow your community. >> So as an exchange there could be a conflict of interest we have to be really careful how we get involved in the community but what we want to do is by selected partnerships with projects and coins. The coins are already doing their work. They are appealing to a community. They are raising the money from that community what we want to do is we want to partner up with those coins, the coins that are worth partnering up with and that way our reach automatically will multiply. On top of that of course we want to work with government and banks and institutions. We believe, it may not be popular what I'm about to say, you know the good old honor kids that came to the hardcore crypto, forget about central banks and centralization, I don't think that that's ever going to happen. I think the more we cooperate with government, that the more we work with them, we together can shape the industry and the landscape for good. I do believe in that. It's a collaboration and cooperation with governments and banks to us is pivotal. >> I mean you can be a coach to the regulatory. >> Absolutely. >> You can be an advocate and partner. >> We are being. >> And not an enemy. >> In Costa Rica, so before they considered and they took a position on whether is was a commodity or not you know they approached us and we were teaching them so much so that a congressman that was going to be at the conference and couldn't make it, he's the founder of the Libertarian movement in Costa Rica he created a think tank of crypto because of us that now has Latin America reach. Think about it, there are 1.3 billion people in Latin America. >> They have mobile phones. >> Exactly. That can now learn about crypto and so we're going to capitalize on this. >> It's a real democratization, what you do is change a society. If you continue to get this right this is really key. Congratulations. Now I want to ask you personal questions so I love the hat, you look great. >> Thank you. >> How did you get here? Were you scratching an itch that was around this? Was it, how did you get to the point where you said hey I'm going to go out and build the first exchange. I'm going to roll up the companies, wire them together, cryptotize them and go nuts and build an exchange. I mean how did you get here? What's the story? >> Thank you well, it's a story. I began entrepreneurial projects over 10 years ago, been in the private sector, because Costa Rica is a services company we put together a call center. Took it from like four people to 4000 people in four years. I went on to like building my own sports brand in over 10 countries but then about two years ago a few companies from Canada they called me from here, they called me to help them go public in the Canadian Securities Exchange. I took two companies public last year and after that I was saying to myself and the crew guys what do we do next? How can we really disrupt the industry? And one of the things we were talking about was man, we're in a decentralized community that brags about decentralization, trading and centralized exchanges. How ironic is that? >> Yeah it's got to change. >> So we said you know what let's be the pioneers, let's head out on a quest to build the world's first mobile decentralized exchange and we achieved that. It's unbelievable. Now you hear all the big guys, the whales talking about we're going to come up with a decentralized exchange because that's what people want at the end of the day and we were able to be the first ones ever to give that. >> And stability is critical. I mean I was just at a bank starting up a new account for a new startup that we're doing and they're like is this a blockchain company? I'm like no, no God no, no, no we're a media business. >> Those are bad guys. >> So you can't even open a bank account some places. So this has really got to get fixed and I got liquid, I got fiat currency, I got to make movements around. The retail market, whether it's trading, investing, it's got to be converted over to the new world. >> Yes, yes. >> I mean it's almost like a full changeover. >> That's correct. Obviously I think that it'll be a transition process. It'll take some time. There are some banks that already getting more involved into the process. What's interesting in our case is we even got the Costa Rican Central Bank to be our bank. Think about it, we're not banking with any private bank or public bank but the Costa Rican Central Bank and I think that more and more banks will follow suit as they see good use cases. The ICO craze of last year, I don't think that it did any good to the greater good of the community. If anything it brought a lot of prejudice. >> It's a black eye. They'll be a hangover on that but that's like the dotcom bubble. All those things on the dotcom bubble actually happened so I think you're going to just see get that jested out of the system. >> Inevitable. >> And focus on quality. That's what happening now. >> Inevitable. >> Pablo thanks for coming on. Pablo Gonzales who is the Founder and CEO of Genesis Blockchain Technologies. First ever exchange bringing all new magic to the marketplace. This is The Cube bringing you the content magic here in Toronto, Canada. I'll be right back with more. Stay with us. Live coverage after this short break. (electronic music)

(bright upbeat music) >> Welcome back, everyone, to the "Supercloud 22." I'm John Furrier, host of "The Cube." This is the Cloud-erati panel, the distinguished experts who have been there from day one, watching the cloud grow, from building clouds, and all open source stuff as well. Just great stuff. Good friends of "The Cube," and great to introduce back on "The Cube," Adrian Cockcroft, formerly with Netflix, formerly AWS, retired, now commentating here in "The Cube," as well as other events. Great to see you back out there, Adrian. Lori MacVittie, Cloud Evangelist with F5, also wrote a great blog post on supercloud, as well as Dave Vellante as well, setting up the supercloud conversation, which we're going to get into, and Chris Hoff, who's the CTO and CSO of LastPass who's been building clouds, and we know him from "The Cube" before with security and cloud commentary. Welcome, all, back to "The Cube" and supercloud. >> Thanks, John. >> Hi. >> All right, Lori, we'll start with you to get things going. I want to try to sit back, as you guys are awesome experts, and involved from building, and in the trenches, on the front lines, and Adrian's coming out of retirement, but Lori, you wrote the post setting the table on supercloud. Let's start with you. What is supercloud? What is it evolving into? What is the north star, from your perspective? >> Well, I don't think there's a north star yet. I think that's one of the reasons I wrote it, because I had a clear picture of this in my mind, but over the past, I don't know, three, four years, I keep seeing, in research, my own and others', complexity, multi-cloud. "We can't manage it. They're all different. "We have trouble. What's going on? "We can't do anything right." And so digging into it, you start looking into, "Well, what do you mean by complexity?" Well, security. Migration, visibility, performance. The same old problems we've always had. And so, supercloud is a concept that is supposed to overlay all of the clouds and normalize it. That's really what we're talking about, is yet another abstraction layer that would provide some consistency that would allow you to do the same security and monitor things correctly. Cornell University actually put out a definition way back in 2016. And they said, "It's an architecture that enables migration "across different zones or providers," and I think that's important, "and provides interfaces to everything, "makes it consistent, and normalizes the network," basically brings it all together, but it also extends to private clouds. Sometimes we forget about that piece of it, and I think that's important in this, so that all your clouds look the same. So supercloud, big layer on top, makes everything wonderful. It's unicorns again. >> It's interesting. We had multiple perspectives. (mumbles) was like Snowflake, who built on top of AWS. Jerry Chan, who we heard from earlier today, Greylock Penn's "Castles in the Cloud" saying, "Hey, you can have a moat, "you can build an advantage and have differentiation," so startups are starting to build on clouds, that's the native cloud view, and then, of course, they get success and they go to all the other clouds 'cause they got customers in the ecosystem, but it seems that all the cloud players, Chris, you commented before we came on today, is that they're all fighting for the customer's workloads on their infrastructure. "Come bring your stuff over to here, "and we'll make it run better." And all your developers are going to be good. Is there a problem? I mean, or is this something else happening here? Is there a real problem? >> Well, I think the north star's over there, by the way, Lori. (laughing) >> Oh, there it is. >> Right there. The supercloud north star. So indeed I think there are opportunities. Whether you call them problems or not, John, I think is to be determined. Most companies have, especially if they're a large enterprise, whether or not they've got an investment in private cloud or not, have spent time really trying to optimize their engineering and workload placement on a single cloud. And that, regardless of your choice, as we take the big three, whether it's Amazon, Google, or Microsoft, each of them have their pros and cons for various types of workloads. And so you'll see a lot of folks optimizing for a particular cloud, and it takes a huge effort up and down the stack to just get a single cloud right. That doesn't take into consideration integrations with software as a service, instantiated, oftentimes, on top of infrastructure of the service that you need to supplement where the obstruction layer ends in infrastructure of the service. You've seen most IS players starting to now move up-chain, as we predicted years ago, to platform as a service, but platforms of various types. So I definitely see it as an opportunity. Previous employers have had multiple clouds, but they were very specifically optimized for the types of workloads, for example, in, let's say, AWS versus GCP, based on the need for different types and optimized compute platforms that each of those providers ran. We never, in that particular case, thought about necessarily running the same workloads across both clouds, because they had different pricing models, different security models, et cetera. And so the challenge is really coming down to the fact that, what is the cost benefit analysis of thinking about multi-cloud when you can potentially engineer the resiliency or redundancy, all the in-season "ilities" that you might need to factor into your deployments on a single cloud, if they are investing at the pace in which they are? So I think it's an opportunity, and it's one that continues to evolve, but this just reminds me, your comments remind me, of when we were talking about OpenStack versus AWS. "Oh, if there were only APIs that existed "that everybody could use," and you saw how that went. So I think that the challenge there is, what is the impetus for a singular cloud provider, any of the big three, deciding that they're going to abstract to a single abstraction layer and not be able to differentiate from the competitors? >> Yeah, and that differentiation's going to be big. I mean, assume that the clouds aren't going to stay still like AWS and just not stop innovating. We see the devs are doing great, Adrian, open source is bigger and better than ever, but now that's been commercialized into enterprise. It's an ops problem. So to Chris's point, the cost benefit analysis is interesting, because do companies have to spin up multiple operations teams, each with specialized training and tooling for the clouds that they're using, and does that open up a can of worms, or is that a good thing? I mean, can you design for this? I mean, is there an architecture or taxonomy that makes it work, or is it just the cart before the horse, the solution before the problem? >> Yeah, well, I think that if you look at any large vendor... Sorry, large customer, they've got a bit of everything already. If you're big enough, you've bought something from everybody at some point. So then you're trying to rationalize that, and trying to make it make sense. And I think there's two ways of looking at multi-cloud or supercloud, and one is that the... And practically, people go best of breed. They say, "Okay, I'm going to get my email "from Google or Microsoft. "I'm going to run my applications on AWS. "Maybe I'm going to do some AI machine learning on Google, "'cause those are the strengths of the platforms." So people tend to go where the strength is. So that's multi-cloud, 'cause you're using multiple clouds, and you still have to move data and make sure they're all working together. But then what Lori's talking about is trying to make them all look the same and trying to get all the security architectures to be the same and put this magical layer, this unicorn magical layer that, "Let's make them all look the same." And this is something that the CIOs have wanted for years, and they keep trying to buy it, and you can sell it, but the trouble is it's really hard to deliver. And I think, when I go back to some old friends of ours at Enstratius who had... And back in the early days of cloud, said, "Well, we'll just do an API that abstracts "all the cloud APIs into one layer." Enstratius ended up being sold to Dell a few years ago, and the problem they had was that... They didn't have any problem selling it. The problem they had was, a year later, when it came up for renewal, the developers all done end runs around it were ignoring it, and the CIOs weren't seeing usage. So you can sell it, but can you actually implement it and make it work well enough that it actually becomes part of your core architecture without, from an operations point of view, without having the developers going directly to their favorite APIs around them? And I'm not sure that you can really lock an organization down enough to get them onto a layer like that. So that's the way I see it. >> You just defined- >> You just defined shadow shadow IT. (laughing) That's pretty- (crosstalk) >> Shadow shadow IT, yeah. >> Yeah, shadow shadow it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, this brings up the question, I mean, is there really a problem? I mean, I guess we'll just jump to it. What is supercloud? If you can have the magic outcome, what is it? Enstratius rendered in with automation? The security issues? Kubernetes is hot. What is the supercloud dream? I guess that's the question. >> I think it's got easier than it was five, 10 years ago. Kubernetes gives you a bunch of APIs that are common across lots of different areas, things like Snowflake or MongoDB Atlas. There are SaaS-based services, which are across multiple clouds from vendors that you've picked. So it's easier to build things which are more portable, but I still don't think it's easy to build this magic API that makes them all look the same. And I think that you're going to have leaky abstractions and security being... Getting the security right's going to be really much more complex than people think. >> What about specialty superclouds, Chris? What's your view on that? >> Yeah, I think what Adrian is alluding to, those leaky abstractions, are interesting, especially from the security perspective, 'cause I think what you see is if you were to happen to be able to thin slice across a set of specific types of workloads, there is a high probability given today that, at least on two of the three major clouds, you could get SaaS providers that sit on those same infrastructure of the service clouds for you, string them together, and have a service that technically is abstracted enough from the things you care about to work on one, two, or three, maybe not all of them, but most SaaS providers in the security space, or identity space, data space, for example, coexist on at least Microsoft and AWS, if not all three, with Google. And so you could technically abstract a service to the point that you let that level of abstract... Like Lori said, no computer science problem could not be... So, no computer science problem can't be solved with more layers of abstraction or misdirection... Or redirection. And in that particular case, if you happen to pick the right vendors that run on all three clouds, you could possibly get close. But then what that really talks about is then, if you built your seven-layer dip model, then you really have specialty superclouds spanning across infrastructure of the service clouds. One for your identity apps, one for data and data layers, to normalize that, one for security, but at what cost? Because you're going to be charged not for that service as a whole, but based on compute resources, based on how these vendors charge across each cloud. So again, that cost-benefit ratio might start being something that is rather imposing from a budgetary perspective. >> Lori, weigh in on this, because the enterprise people love to solve complexity with more complexity. Here, we need to go the other way. It's a commodity. So there has to be a better way. >> I think I'm hearing two fundamental assumptions. One, that a supercloud would force the existing big three to implement some sort of equal API. Don't agree with that. There's no business case for that. There's no reason that could compel them to do that. Otherwise, we would've convinced them to do that, what? 10, 15 years ago when we said we need to be interoperable. So it's not going to happen there. They don't have a good reason to do that. There's no business justification for that. The other presumption, I think, is that we would... That it's more about the services, the differentiated services, that are offered by all of these particular providers, as opposed to treating the core IaaS as the commodity it is. It's compute, it's some storage, it's some networking. Look at that piece. Now, pull those together by... And it's not OpenStack. That's not the answer, it wasn't the answer, it's not the answer now, but something that can actually pull those together and abstract it at a different layer. So cloud providers don't have to change, 'cause they're not going to change, but if someone else were to build that architecture to say, "all right, I'm going to treat all of this compute "so you can run your workloads," as Chris pointed out, "in the best place possible. "And we'll help you do that "by being able to provide those cost benefit analysis, "'What's the best performance, what are you doing,' "And then provide that as a layer." So I think that's really where supercloud is going, 'cause I think that's what a lot of the market actually wants in terms of where they want to run their workloads, because we're seeing that they want to run workloads at the edge, "a lot closer to me," which is yet another factor that we have to consider, and how are you going to be moving individual workloads around? That's the holy grail. Let's move individual workloads to where they're the best performance, the security, cost optimized, and then one layer up. >> Yeah, I think so- >> John Considine, who ultimately ran CloudSwitch, that sold to Verizon, as well as Tom Gillis, who built Bracket, are both rolling in their graves, 'cause what you just described was exactly that. (Lori laughing) Well, they're not even dead yet, so I can't say they're rolling in their graves. Sorry, Tom. Sorry, John. >> Well, how do hyperscalers keep their advantage with all this? I mean, to that point. >> Native services and managed services on top of it. Look how many flavors of managed Kubernetes you have. So you have a choice. Roll your own, or go with a managed service, and then differentiate based on the ability to take away and simplify some of that complexity. Doesn't mean it's more secure necessarily, but I do think we're seeing opportunities where those guys are fighting tooth and nail to keep you on a singular cloud, even though, to Lori's point, I agree, I don't think it's about standardized APIs, 'cause I think that's never going to happen. I do think, though, that SaaS-y supercloud model that we were talking about, layering SaaS that happens to span all the three infrastructure of the service are probably more in line with what Lori was talking about. But I do think that portability of workload is given to you today within lots of ways. But again, how much do you manage, and how much performance do you give up by running additional abstraction layers? And how much security do you give up by having to roll your own and manage that? Because the whole point was, in many cases... Cloud is using other people's computers, so in many cases, I want to manage as little of it as I possibly can. >> I like this whole SaaS angle, because if you had the old days, you're on Amazon Web Services, hey, if you build a SaaS application that runs on Amazon, you're all great, you're born in the cloud, just like that generations of startups. Great. Now when you have this super pass layer, as Dave Vellante was riffing on his analysis, and Lori, you were getting into this pass layer that's kind of like SaaS-y, what's the SaaS equation look like? Because that, to me, sounds like a supercloud version of saying, "I have a workload that runs on all the clouds equally." I just don't think that's ever going to happen. I agree with you, Chris, on that one. But I do see that you can have an abstraction that says, "Hey, I don't really want to get in the weeds. "I don't want to spend a lot of ops time on this. "I just want it to run effectively, and magic happens," or, as you said, some layer there. How does that work? How do you see this super pass layer, if anything, enabling a different SaaS game? >> I think you hit on it there. The last like 10 or so years, we've been all focused on developers and developer productivity, and it's all about the developer experience, and it's got to be good for them, 'cause they're the kings. And I think the next 10 years are going to be very focused on operations, because once you start scaling out, it's not about developers. They can deliver fast or slow, it doesn't matter, but if you can't scale it out, then you've got a real problem. So I think that's an important part of it, is really, what is the ops experience, and what is the best way to get those costs down? And this would serve that purpose if it was done right, which, we can argue about whether that's possible or not, but I don't have to implement it, so I can say it's possible. >> Well, are we going to be getting into infrastructure as code moves into "everything is code," security, data, (laughs) applications is code? I mean, "blank" is code, fill in the blank. (Lori laughing) >> Yeah, we're seeing more of that with things like CDK and Pulumi, where you are actually coding up using a real language rather than the death by YAML or whatever. How much YAML can you take? But actually having a real language so you're not trying to do things in parsing languages. So I think that's an interesting trend. You're getting some interesting templates, and I like what... I mean, the counterexample is that if you just go deep on one vendor, then maybe you can go faster and it is simpler. And one of my favorite vendor... Favorite customers right now that I've been talking to is Liberty Mutual. Went very deep and serverless first on AWS. They're just doing everything there, and they're using CDK Patterns to do it, and they're going extremely fast. There's a book coming out called "The Value Flywheel" by Dave Anderson, it's coming out in a few months, to just detail what they're doing, but that's the counterargument. If you could pick one vendor, you can go faster, you can get that vendor to do more for you, and maybe get a bigger discount so you're not splitting your discounts across vendors. So that's one aspect of it. But I think, fundamentally, you're going to find the CIOs and the ops people generally don't like sitting on one vendor. And if that single vendor is a horizontal platform that's trying to make all the clouds look the same, now you're locked into whatever that platform was. You've still got a platform there. There's still something. So I think that's always going to be something that the CIOs want, but the developers are always going to just pick whatever the best tool for building the thing is. And a analogy here is that the developers are dating and getting married, and then the operations people are running the family and getting divorced. And all the bad parts of that cycle are in the divorce end of it. You're trying to get out of a vendor, there's lawyers, it's just a big mess. >> Who's the lawyer in this example? (crosstalk) >> Well... (laughing) >> Great example. (crosstalk) >> That's why ops people don't like lock-in, because they're the ones trying to unlock. They aren't the ones doing the lock-in. They're the ones unlocking, when developers, if you separate the two, are the ones who are going, picking, having the fun part of it, going, trying a new thing. So they're chasing a shiny object, and then the ops people are trying to untangle themselves from the remains of that shiny object a few years later. So- >> Aren't we- >> One way of fixing that is to push it all together and make it more DevOps-y. >> Yeah, that's right. >> But that's trying to put all the responsibilities in one place, like more continuous improvement, but... >> Chris, what's your reaction to that? Because you're- >> No, that's exactly what I was going to bring up, yeah, John. And 'cause we keep saying "devs," "dev," and "ops" and I've heard somewhere you can glue those two things together. Heck, you could even include "sec" in the middle of it, and "DevSecOps." So what's interesting about what Adrian's saying though, too, is I think this has a lot to do with how you structure your engineering teams and how you think about development versus operations and security. So I'm building out a team now that very much makes use of, thanks to my brilliant VP of Engineering, a "Team Topologies" approach, which is a very streamlined and product oriented way of thinking about, for example, in engineering, if you think about team structures, you might have people that build the front end, build the middle tier, and the back end, and then you have a product that needs to make use of all three components in some form. So just from getting stuff done, their ability then has to tie to three different groups, versus building a team that's streamlined that ends up having front end, middleware, and backend folks that understand and share standards but are able to uncork the velocity that's required to do that. So if you think about that, and not just from an engineering development perspective, but then you couple in operations as a foundational layer that services them with embedded capabilities, we're putting engineers and operations teams embedded in those streamlined teams so that they can run at the velocity that they need to, they can do continuous integration, they can do continuous deployment. And then we added CS, which is continuously secure, continuous security. So instead of having giant, centralized teams, we're thinking there's a core team, for example, a foundational team, that services platform, makes sure all the trains are running on time, that we're doing what we need to do foundationally to make the environments fully dev and operator and security people functional. But then ultimately, we don't have these big, monolithic teams that get into turf wars. So, to Adrian's point about, the operators don't like to be paned in, well, they actually have a say, ultimately, in how they architect, deploy, manage, plan, build, and operate those systems. But at the same point in time, we're all looking at that problem across those teams and go... Like if one streamline team says, "I really want to go run on Azure, "because I like their services better," the reality is the foundational team has a larger vote versus opinion on whether or not, functionally, we can satisfy all of the requirements of the other team. Now, they may make a fantastic business case and we play rock, paper, scissors, and we do that. Right now, that hasn't really happened. We look at the balance of AWS, we are picking SaaS-y, supercloud vendors that will, by the way, happen to run on three platforms, if we so choose to expand there. So we have a similar interface, similar capability, similar processes, but we've made the choice at LastPass to go all in on AWS currently, with respect to how we deliver our products, for all the reasons we just talked about. But I do think that operations model and how you build your teams is extremely important. >> Yeah, and to that point- >> And has the- (crosstalk) >> The vendors themselves need optionality to the customer, what you're saying. So, "I'm going to go fast, "but I need to have that optionality." I guess the question I have for you guys is, what is today's trade-off? So if the decision point today is... First of all, I love the go-fast model on one cloud. I think that's my favorite when I look at all this, and then with the option, knowing that I'm going to have the option to go to multiple clouds. But everybody wants lock-in on the vendor side. Is that scale, is that data advantage? I mean, so the lock-in's a good question, and then also the trade-offs. What do people have to do today to go on a supercloud journey to have an ideal architecture and taxonomy, and what's the right trade-offs today? >> I think that the- Sorry, just put a comment and then let Lori get a word in, but there's a lot of... A lot of the market here is you're building a product, and that product is a SaaS product, and it needs to run somewhere. And the customers that you're going to... To get the full market, you need to go across multiple suppliers, most people doing AWS and Azure, and then with Google occasionally for some people. But that, I think, has become the pattern that most of the large SaaS platforms that you'd want to build out of, 'cause that's the fast way of getting something that's going to be stable at scale, it's got functionality, you'd have to go invest in building it and running it. Those platforms are just multi-cloud platforms, they're running across them. So Snowflake, for example, has to figure out how to make their stuff work on more than one cloud. I mean, they started on one, but they're going across clouds. And I think that that is just the way it's going to be, because you're not going to get a broad enough view into the market, because there isn't a single... AWS doesn't have 100% of the market. It's maybe a bit more than them, but Azure has got a pretty solid set of markets where it is strong, and it's market by market. So in some areas, different people in some places in the world, and different vertical markets, you'll find different preferences. And if you want to be across all of them with your data product, or whatever your SaaS product is, you're just going to have to figure this out. So in some sense, the supercloud story plays best with those SaaS providers like the Snowflakes of this world, I think. >> Lori? >> Yeah, I think the SaaS product... Identity, whatever, you're going to have specialized. SaaS, superclouds. We already see that emerging. Identity is becoming like this big SaaS play that crosses all clouds. It's not just for one. So you get an evolution going on where, yes, I mean, every vendor who provides some kind of specific functionality is going to have to build out and be multi-cloud, as it were. It's got to work equally across them. And the challenge, then, for them is to make it simple for both operators and, if required, dev. And maybe that's the other lesson moving forward. You can build something that is heaven for ops, but if the developers won't use it, well, then you're not going to get it adopted. But if you make it heaven for the developers, the ops team may not be able to keep it secure, keep everything. So maybe we have to start focusing on both, make it friendly for both, at least. Maybe it won't be the perfect experience, but gee, at least make it usable for both sides of the equation so that everyone can actually work in concert, like Chris was saying. A more comprehensive, cohesive approach to delivery and deployment. >> All right, well, wrapping up here, I want to just get one final comment from you guys, if you don't mind. What does supercloud look like in five years? What's the Nirvana, what's the steady state of supercloud in five to 10 years? Or say 10 years, make it easier. (crosstalk) Five to 10 years. Chris, we'll start with you. >> Wow. >> Supercloud, what's it look like? >> Geez. A magic pane, a single pane of glass. (laughs) >> Yeah, I think- >> Single glass of pain. >> Yeah, a single glass of pain. Thank you. You stole my line. Well, not mine, but that's the one I was going to use. Yeah, I think what is really fascinating is ultimately, to answer that question, I would reflect on market consolidation and market dynamics that happens even in the SaaS space. So we will see SaaS companies combining in focal areas to be able to leverage the positions, let's say, in the identity space that somebody has built to provide a set of compelling services that help abstract that identity problem or that security problem or that instrumentation and observability problem. So take your favorite vendors today. I think what we'll end up seeing is more consolidation in SaaS offerings that run on top of infrastructure of the service offerings to where a supercloud might look like something I described before. You have the combination of your favorite interoperable identity, observability, security, orchestration platforms run across them. They're sold as a stack, whether it be co-branded by an enterprise vendor that sells all of that and manages it for you or not. But I do think that... You talked about, I think you said, "Is this an innovator's dilemma?" No, I think it's an integrator's dilemma, as it has always ultimately been. As soon as you get from Genesis to Bespoke Build to product to then commoditization, the cycle starts anew. And I think we've gotten past commoditization, and we're looking at niche areas. So I see just the evolution, not necessarily a revolution, of what we're dealing with today as we see more consolidation in the marketplace. >> Lori, what's your take? Five years, 10 years, what does supercloud look like? >> Part of me wants to take the pie in the sky unicorn approach. "No, it will be beautiful. "One button, and things will happen," but I've seen this cycle many times before, and that's not going to happen. And I think Chris has got it pretty close to what I see already evolving. Those different kinds of super services, basically. And that's really what we're talking about. We call them SaaS, but they're... X is a service. Everything is a service, and it's really a supercloud that can run anywhere, but it presents a different interface, because, well, it's easier. And I think that's where we're going to go, and that's just going to get more refined. And yes, a lot of consolidation, especially on the observability side, but that's also starting to consume the security side, which is really interesting to watch. So that could be a little different supercloud coming on there that's really focused on specific types of security, at least, that we'll layer across, and then we'll just hook them all together. It's an API first world, and it seems like that's going to be our standard for the next while of how we integrate everything. So superclouds or APIs. >> Awesome. Adrian... Adrian, take us home. >> Yeah, sure. >> What's your- I think, and just picking up on Lori's point that these are web services, meaning that you can just call them from anywhere, they don't have to run everything in one place, they can stitch it together, and that's really meant... It's somewhat composable. So in practice, people are going to be composable. Can they compose their applications on multiple platforms? But I think the interesting thing here is what the vendors do, and what I'm seeing is vendors running software on other vendors. So you have Google building platforms that, then, they will support on AWS and Azure and vice versa. You've got AWS's distro of Kubernetes, which they now give you as a distro so you can run it on another platform. So I think that trend's going to continue, and it's going to be, possibly, you pick, say, an AWS or a Google software stack, but you don't run it all on AWS, you run it in multiple places. Yeah, and then the other thing is the third tier, second, third tier vendors, like, I mean, what's IBM doing? I think in five years time, IBM is going to be a SaaS vendor running on the other clouds. I mean, they're already halfway there. To be a bit more controversial, I guess it's always fun to... Like I don't work for a corporate entity now. No one tells me what I can say. >> Bring it on. >> How long can Google keep losing a billion dollars a quarter? They've either got to figure out how to make money out of this thing, or they'll end up basically being a software stack on another cloud platform as their, likely, actual way they can make money on it. Because you've got to... And maybe Oracle, is that a viable cloud platform that... You've got to get to some level of viability. And I think the second, third tier of vendors in five, 10 years are going to be running on the primary platform. And I think, just the other final thing that's really driving this right now. If you try and place an order right now for a piece of equipment for your data center, key pieces of equipment are a year out. It's like trying to buy a new fridge from like Sub-Zero or something like that. And it's like, it's a year. You got to wait for these things. Any high quality piece of equipment. So you go to deploy in your data center, and it's like, "I can't get stuff in my data center. "Like, the key pieces I need, I can't deploy a whole system. "We didn't get bits and pieces of it." So people are going to be cobbling together, or they're going, "No, this is going to cloud, because the cloud vendors "have a much stronger supply chain to just be able "to give you the system you need. "They've got the capacity." So I think we're going to see some pandemic and supply chain induced forced cloud migrations, just because you can't build stuff anymore outside the- >> We got to accelerate supercloud, 'cause they have the supply. They are the chain. >> That's super smart. That's the benefit of going last. So I'm going to scoop in real quick. I can't believe we can call this "Web3 Supercloud," because none of us said "Web3." Don't forget DAO. (crosstalk) (indistinct) You have blockchain, blockchain superclouds. I mean, there's some very interesting distributed computing stuff there, but we'll have to do- >> (crosstalk) We're going to call that the "Cubeverse." The "Cubeverse" is coming. >> Oh, the "Cubeverse." All right. >> We will be... >> That's very meta. >> In the metaverse, Cubeverse soon. >> "Stupor cloud," perhaps. But anyway, great points, Adrian and Lori. Loved it. >> Chris, great to see you. Adrian, Lori, thanks for coming on. We've known each other for a long time. You guys are part of the cloud-erati, the group that has been in there from day one, and watched it evolve, and you get the scar tissue to prove it, and the experience. So thank you so much for sharing your commentary. We'll roll this up and make it open to everybody as additional content. We'll call this the "outtakes," the longer version. But really appreciate your time, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks so much. >> Okay, we'll be back with more "Supercloud 22" right after this. (bright upbeat music)

>>Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Caesars in Las Vegas. My name is Dave ante. We're here with the chairman and CEO of snowflake, Frank Luman. Good to see you again, Frank. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, >>You, you as well, Dave. Good to be with you. >>No, it's, it's awesome to be, obviously everybody's excited to be back. You mentioned that in your, in your keynote, the most amazing thing to me is the progression of what we're seeing here in the ecosystem and of your data cloud. Um, you wrote a book, the rise of the data cloud, and it was very cogent. You talked about network effects, but now you've executed on that. I call it the super cloud. You have AWS, you know, I use that term, AWS. You're building on top of that. And now you have customers building on top of your cloud. So there's these layers of value that's unique in the industry. Was this by design >>Or, well, you know, when you, uh, are a data clouding, you have data, people wanna do things, you know, with that data, they don't want to just, you know, run data operations, populate dashboards, you know, run reports pretty soon. They want to build applications and after they build applications, they wanna build businesses on it. So it goes on and on and on. So it, it drives your development to enable more and more functionality on that data cloud. Didn't start out that way. You know, we were very, very much focused on data operations, then it becomes application development and then it becomes, Hey, we're developing whole businesses on this platform. So similar to what happened to Facebook in many, in many ways, you know, >>There was some confusion I think, and there still is in the community of, particularly on wall street, about your quarter, your con the consumption model I loved on the earnings call. One of the analysts asked Mike, you know, do you ever consider going to a subscription model? And Mike got cut him off, then let finish. No, that would really defeat the purpose. Um, and so there's also a narrative around, well, maybe snowflake, consumption's easier to dial down. Maybe it's more discretionary, but I, I, I would say this, that if you're building apps on top of snowflake and you're actually monetizing, which is a big theme here, now, your revenue is aligned, you know, with those cloud costs. And so unless you're selling it for more, you know, than it costs more than, than you're selling it for, you're gonna dial that up. And that is the future of, I see this ecosystem in your company. Is that, is that fair? You buy that. >>Yeah, it, it is fair. Obviously the public cloud runs on a consumption model. So, you know, you start looking all the layers of the stack, um, you know, snowflake, you know, we have to be a consumption model because we run on top of other people's, uh, consumption models. Otherwise you don't have alignment. I mean, we have conversations, uh, with people that build on snowflake, um, you know, they have trouble, you know, with their financial model because they're not running a consumption model. So it's like square pack around hole. So we all have to align ourselves. So that's when they pay a dollar, you know, a portion goes to, let's say, AWS portion goes to the snowflake of that dollar. And the portion goes to whatever the uplift is, application value, data value, whatever it is to that goes on top of that. So the whole dollar, you know, gets allocated depending on whose value at it. Um, we're talking about. >>Yeah, but you sell value. Um, so you're not a SaaS company. Uh, at least I don't look at you that that way I I've always felt like the SAS pricing model is flawed because it's not aligned with customers. Right. If you, if you get stuck with orphaned licenses too bad, you know, pay us. >>Yeah. We're, we're, we're obviously a SaaS model in the sense that it is software as a service, but it's not a SaaS model in the sense that we don't sell use rights. Right. And that's the big difference. I mean, when you buy, you know, so many users from, you know, Salesforce and ServiceNow or whoever you have just purchased the right, you know, for so many users to use that software for this period of time, and the revenue gets recognized, you know, radically, you know, one month at a time, the same amount. Now we're not that different because we still do a contract the exact same way as SA vendor does it, but we don't recognize the revenue radically. We recognize the revenue based on the consumption, but over the term of the contract, we recognize the entire amount. It just is not neatly organized in these monthly buckets. >>You know? So what happens if they underspend one quarter, they have to catch up by the end of the, the term, is that how it works or is that a negotiation or it's >>The, the, the spending is a totally, totally separate from the consumption itself, you know, because you know how they pay for the contract. Let's say they do a three year contract. Um, you know, they, they will probably pay for that, you know, on an annual basis, you know, that three year contract. Um, but it's how they recognize their expenses for snowflake and how we recognize the revenue is based on what they actually consume. But it's not like you're on demand where you can just decide to not use it. And then I don't have any cost, but over the three year period, you know, all of that, you know, uh, needs to get consumed or they expire. And that's the same way with Amazon. If I don't consume what I buy from Amazon, I still gotta pay for it. You know, so, >>Well, you're right. Well, I guess you could buy by the drink, but it's way, way more expensive and nobody really correct. Does that, so, yep. Okay. Phase one, better simpler, you know, cloud enterprise data warehouse, phase two, you introduced the, the data cloud and, and now we're seeing the rise of the data cloud. What, what does phase three look like >>Now? Phase, phase three is all about applications. Um, and we've just learned, uh, you know, from the beginning that people were trying to do this, but we weren't instrumental at all to do it. So people would ODBC, you know, JDBC drivers just uses as database, right? So the entire application would happen outside, you know, snowflake, we're just a database. You connect to the database, you know, you read or right data, you know, you do data, data manipulations. And then the application, uh, processing all happens outside of snowflake. Now there's issues with that because we start to exfil trade data, meaning that we started to take data out of snowflake and, and put it, uh, in other places. Now there's risk for that. There's operational risk, there's governance, exposure, security issues, you know, all this kind of stuff. And the other problem is, you know, data gets Reed. >>It proliferates. And then, you know, data science tests are like, well, I, I need that data to stay in one place. That's the whole idea behind the data cloud. You know, we have very big infrastructure clouds. We have very big application clouds and then data, you know, sort of became the victim there and became more proliferated and more segment. And it's ever been. So all we do is just send data to the work all day. And we said, no, we're gonna enable the work to get to the data. And the data that stays in more in place, we don't have latency issue. We don't have data quality issues. We don't have lineage issues. So, you know, people have responded very, very well to the data cloud idea, like, yeah, you know, as an enterprise or an institution, you know, I'm the epicenter of my own data cloud because it's not just my own data. >>It's also my ecosystem. It's the people that I have data networking relationships with, you know, for example, you know, take, you know, uh, an investment bank, you know, in, in, in, in New York city, they send data to fidelity. They send data to BlackRock. They send data to, you know, bank of New York, all the regulatory clearing houses, all on and on and on, you know, every night they're running thousands, tens of thousands, you know, of jobs pushing that data, you know, out there. It just, and they they're all on snowflake already. So it doesn't have to be this way. Right. So, >>Yes. So I, I asked the guys before, you know, last week, Hey, what, what would you ask Frank? Now? You might remember you came on, uh, our program during COVID and I was asking you how you're dealing with it, turn off the news. And it was, that was cool. And I asked you at the time, you know, were you ever, you go on Preem and you said, look, I'll never say never, but it defeats the purpose. And you said, we're not gonna do a halfway house. Actually, you were more declarative. We're not doing a halfway house, one foot in one foot out. And then the guy said, well, what about that Dell deal? And that pure deal that you just did. And I, I think I know the answer, but I want to hear from you did a customer come to you and say, get you in the headlock and say, you gotta do this. >>Or it did happen that way. Uh, it, uh, it started with a conversation, um, you know, via with, uh, with Michael Dell. Um, it was supposed to be just a friendly chat, you know, Hey, how's it going? And I mean, obviously Dell is the owner of data, the main, or our first company, you know? Um, but it's, it, wasn't easy for, for Dell and snowflake to have a conversation because they're the epitome of the on-premise company and we're the epitome of a cloud company. And it's like, how, what do we have in common here? Right. What can we talk about? But, you know, Michael's a very smart, uh, engaging guy, you know, always looking for, for opportunity. And of course they decided we're gonna hook up our CTOs, our product teams and, you know, explore, you know, somebody's, uh, ideas and, you know, yeah. We had some, you know, starts and restarts and all of that because it's just naturally, you know, uh, not an easy thing to conceive of, but, you know, in the end it was like, you know what? >>It makes a lot of sense. You know, we can virtualize, you know, Dell object storage, you know, as if it's, you know, an S three storage, you know, from Amazon and then, you know, snowflake in its analytical processing. We'll just reference that data because to us, it just looks like a file that's sitting on, on S3. And we have, we have such a thing it's called an external table, right. That's, that's how we basically, it projects, you know, a snowflake, uh, semantic and structural model, you know, on an external object. And we process against it exactly the same way as if it was an internal, uh, table. So we just extended that, um, you know, with, um, with our storage partners, like Dell and pure storage, um, for it to happen, you know, across a network to an on-prem place. So it's very elegant and it, it, um, it becomes an, an enterprise architecture rather than just a cloud architecture. And I'm, I just don't know what will come of it. And, but I've already talked to customers who have to have data on premises just can't go anywhere because they process against it, you know, where it originates, but there are analytical processes that wanna reference attributes of that data. Well, this is what we'll do that. >>Yeah. I'm, it is interesting. I'm gonna ask Dell if I were them, I'd be talking to you about, Hey, I'm gonna try to separate compute from storage on prem and maybe do some of the, the work there. I don't even know if it's technically feasible. It's, I'll ask OI. But, um, but, but, but to me, that's an example of your extending your ecosystem. Um, so you're talking now about applications and that's an example of increasing your Tam. I don't know if you ever get to the edge, you know, we'll see, we're not quite quite there yet, but, um, but as you've said before, there's no lack of market for you. >>Yeah. I mean, obviously snowflake it it's, it's Genesis was reinventing database management in, in a cloud computing environment, which is so different from a, a machine environment or a cluster environment. So that's why, you know, we're, we're, we're not a, a fit for a machine centric, uh, environment sort of defeats the purpose of, you know, how we were built. We, we are truly a native solution. Most products, uh, in the clouds are actually not cloud native. You know, they, they originated the machine environments and you still see that, you know, almost everything you see in the cloud by the way is not cloud native, our generation of applications. They only run the cloud. They can only run the cloud. They are cloud native. They don't know anything else, >>You know? Yeah, you're right. A lot of companies would just wrap something in wrap their stack in Kubernetes and throw it into the cloud and say, we're in the cloud too. And you basically get, you just shifted. It >>Didn't make sense. Oh. They throw it in the container and run it. Right. Yeah. >>So, okay. That's cool. But what does that get you that doesn't change your operational model? Um, so coming back to software development and what you're doing in, in that regard, it seems one of the things we said about Supercloud is in order to have a Supercloud, you gotta have an ecosystem, you gotta have optionality. Hence you're doing things like Apache iceberg, you know, you said today, well, we're not sure where it's gonna go, but we offering options. Uh, but, but my, my question is, um, as it pertains to software developments specifically, how do you, so one of the things we said, sorry, I've lost my train there. One of the things we said is you have to have a super PAs in order to have a super cloud ecosystem, PAs layer. That's essentially what you've introduced here. Is it not a platform for our application development? >>Yeah. I mean, what happens today? I mean, how do you enable a developer, you know, on snowflake, without the developer, you know, reading the, the files out of snowflake, you know, processing, you know, against that data, wherever they are, and then putting the results set, God knows where, right. And that's what happens today. It's the wild west it's completely UN uncovered, right? And that's the reason why lots of enterprises will not allow Python anything anywhere near, you know, their enterprise data. We just know that, uh, we also know it from streamlet, um, or the acquisition, um, large acquisition that we made this year because they said, look, you know, we're, we have a lot of demand, you know, uh, in the Python community, but that's the wild west. That's not the enterprise grade high trust, uh, you know, corporate environment. They are strictly segregated, uh, today. >>Now do some, do these, do these things sometimes dribble up in the enterprise? Yes, they do. And it's actually intolerable the risk that enterprises, you know, take, you know, with things being UN uncovered. I mean the whole snowflake strategy and promises that you're in snowflake, it is a, an absolute enterprise grade environment experience. And it's really hard to do. It takes enormous investment. Uh, but that is what you buy from us. Just having Python is not particularly hard. You know, we can do that in a week. This has taken us years to get it to this level, you know, of, of, you know, governance, security and, and, you know, having all the risks around exfiltration and so on, really understood and dealt with. That's also why these things run in private previews and public previews for so long because we have to squeeze out, you know, everything that may not have been, you know, understood or foreseen, you know, >>So there are trade offs of, of going into this snowflake cloud, you get all this great functionality. Some people might think it's a walled garden. How, how would you respond to that? >>Yeah. And it's true when you have a, you know, a snowflake object, like a snowflake, uh, table only snowflake, you know, runs that table. And, um, you know, that, that is, you know, it's very high function. It's very sort of analogous to what apple did, you know, they have very high functioning, but you do have to accept the fact that it's, that it's not, uh, you know, other, other things in apple cannot, you know, get that these objects. So this is the reason why we introduce an open file format, you know, like, like iceberg, uh, because what iceberg effectively does is it allows any tool, uh, you know, to access that particular object. We do it in such a way that a lot of the functionality of snowflake, you know, will address the iceberg format, which is great because it's, you're gonna get much more function out of our, you know, iceberg implementation than you would get from iceberg on its own. So we do it in a very high value addeds, uh, you know, manner, but other tools can still access the same object in a read to write, uh, manner. So it, it really sort of delivers the original, uh, promise of the data lake, which is just like, Hey, I have all these objects tools come and go. I can use what I want. Um, so you get, you get the best of both worlds for the most part. >>Have you reminds me a little bit of VMware? I mean, VMware's a software mainframe, it's just better than >>Doing >>It on your own. Yep. Um, one of the other hallmarks of a cloud company, and you guys clearly are a cloud company is startups and innovation. Um, now of course you see that in, in the, in the ecosystem, uh, and maybe that's the answer to my question, but you guys are kind of whale hunters, <laugh> your customers are, tend to be bigger. Uh, is the, is the innovation now the extension of that, the ecosystem is that by design. >>Oh, um, you know, we have a enormous, uh, ISV following and, um, we're gonna have a whole separate conference like this, by the way, just for, yeah. >>For developers. I hope you guys will up there too. Yeah. Um, you know, the, the reason that, that the ISV strategy is very important for, you know, for, for, for, for many reasons, but, you know, ISVs are the people that are really going to unlock a lot of the value and a lot of the promise of data, right? Because you, you can never do that on your own. And the problem has been that for ISVs, it is so expensive and so difficult to build a product that can be used because the entire enterprise platform infrastructure needs to be built by somebody, you know, I mean, are you really gonna run infrastructure, database, operations, security, compliance, scalability, economics. How do you do that as a software company where really you only have your, your domain expertise that you want to deliver on a platform. You don't wanna do all these things. >>First of all, you don't know how to do it, how to do it well. Um, so it is much easier, much faster when there is already platform to actually build done in the world of clout that just doesn't, you know, exist. And then beyond that, you know, okay, fine building. It is sort of step one. Now I gotta sell it. I gotta market it. So how do I do that? Well, in the snowflake community, you have already market <laugh>, there's thousands and thousands of customers that are also on self lake. Okay. So their, their ability to consume that service that you just built, you know, they can search it, they can try it, they can test it and decide whether they want to consume it. And then, you know, we can monetize it. So all they have to do is cash the check. So the net effecti of it is we drastically lowered the barriers to entry into the world, you know, of software, you know, two men or two women in a dog, and a handful of files can build something that then can be sold, sort of to, for software developers. >>I wrote a piece 2012 after the first reinvent. And I, you know, and I, and I put a big gorilla on the front page and I said, how do you compete with Amazon gorilla? And then one of my answers was you build data ecosystems and you verticalize, and that's, that's what you're doing >>Here. Yeah. There certain verticals that are farther along than others, uh, obviously, but for example, in financial, uh, which is our largest vertical, I mean, the, the data ecosystem is really developing hardcore now. And that's, that's because they so rely on those relationships between all the big financial institutions and entities, regulatory, you know, clearing houses, investment bankers, uh, retail banks, all this kind of stuff. Um, so they're like, it becomes a no brainer. The network affects kick in so strongly because they're like, well, this is really the only way to do it. I mean, if you and I work in different companies and we do, and we want to create a secure, compliant data network and connection between us, I mean, it would take forever to get our lawyers to agree that yeah, it's okay. <laugh> right now, it's like a matter of minutes to set it up. If we're both on snowflake, >>It's like procurement, do they, do you have an MSA yeah. Check? And it just sail right through versus back and forth and endless negotiations >>Today. Data networking is becoming core ecosystem in the world of computing. You know, >>I mean, you talked about the network effects in rise of the data cloud and correct. Again, you know, you, weren't the first to come up with that notion, but you are applying it here. Um, I wanna switch topics a little bit. I, when I read your press releases, I laugh every time. Cause this says no HQ, Bozeman. And so where, where do you, I think I know where you land on, on hybrid work and remote work, but what are your thoughts on that? You, you see Elon the other day said you can't work for us unless you come to the office. Where, where do you stand? >>Yeah. Well, the, well, the, the first aspect is, uh, we really wanted to, uh, separate from the idea of a headquarters location, because I feel it's very antiquated. You know, we have many different hubs. There's not one place in the world where all the important people are and where we make all the important positions, that whole way of thinking, uh, you know, it is obsolete. I mean, I am where I need to be. And it it's many different places. It's not like I, I sit in this incredible place, you know, and that's, you know, that's where I sit and everybody comes to me. No, we are constantly moving around and we have engineering hubs. You know, we have your regional, uh, you know, headquarters for, for sales. Obviously we have in Malaysia, we have in Europe, you know? And, um, so I wanted to get rid of this headquarters designation. >>And, you know, the, the, the other issue obviously is that, you know, we were obviously in California, but you know, California is, is no longer, uh, the dominant place of where we are resident. I mean, 40% of our engineering people are now in be Washington. You know, we have hundreds of people in Poland where people, you know, we are gonna have very stressed location in Toronto. Um, yeah. Obviously our customers are, are everywhere, right? So this idea that, you know, everything is happening in, in one state is just, um, you know, not, not correct. So we wanted to go to no headquarters. Of course the SCC doesn't let you do that. Um, because they want, they want you to have a street address where the government can send you a mail and then it becomes, the question is, well, what's an acceptable location. Well, it has to be a place where the CEO and the CFO have residency by hooker, by crook. >>That happened to be in Bozeman Montana because Mike and I are both, it was not by design. We just did that because we were, uh, required to, you know, you know, comply with government, uh, requirements, which of course we do, but that's why it, it says what it says now on, on the topic of, you know, where did we work? Um, we are super situational about it. It's not like, Hey, um, you know, everybody in the office or, or everybody is remote, we're not categorical about it. Depends on the function, depends on the location. Um, but everybody is tethered to an office. Okay. In words, everybody has a relationship with an office. There's, there's almost nobody, there are a few exceptions of people that are completely remote. Uh, but you know, if you get hired on with snowflake, you will always have an office affiliation and you can be called into the office by your manager. But for purpose, you know, a meeting, a training, an event, you don't get called in just to hang out. And like, the office is no longer your home away from home. Right. And we're now into hotel, right? So you don't have a fixed place, you know? So >>You talked in your keynote a lot about last question. I let you go customer alignment, obviously a big deal. I have been watching, you know, we go to a lot of events, you'll see a technology company tell a story, you know, about their widget or whatever it was their box. And then you'll see an outcome and you look at it and you shake your head and say, well, that the difference between this and that is the square root of zero, right. When you talk about customer alignment today, we're talking about monetizing data. Um, so that's a whole different conversation. Um, and I, I wonder if you could sort of close on how that's different. Um, I mean, at ServiceNow, you transformed it. You know, I get that, you know, data, the domain was okay, tape, blow it out, but this is a, feels like a whole new vector or wave of growth. >>Yeah. You know, monetizing, uh, data becomes sort of a, you know, a byproduct of having a data cloud you all of a sudden, you know, become aware of the fact that, Hey, Hey, I have data and be that data might actually be quite valuable to parties. And then C you know, it's really easy to then, you know, uh, sell that and, and monetize that. Cause if it was hard, forget it, you know, I don't have time for it. Right. But if it's relatively, if it's compliant, it's relatively effortless, it's pure profit. Um, I just want to reference one attribute, two attributes of what you have, by the way, you know, uh, hedge funds have been into this sort of thing, you know, for a long time, because they procure data from hundreds and hundreds of sources, right. Because they're, they are the original data scientists. >>Um, but the, the bigger thing with data is that a lot of, you know, digital transformation is, is, is finally becoming real. You know, for years it was arm waving and conceptual and abstract, but it's becoming real. I mean, how do we, how do we run a supply chain? You know, how do we run, you know, healthcare, um, all these things are become are, and how do we run cyber security? They're being redefined as data problems and data challenges. And they have data solutions. So that's right. Data strategies are insanely important because, you know, if, if the solution is through data, then you need to have, you know, a data strategy, you know, and in our world, that means you have a data cloud and you have all the enablement that allows you to do that. But, you know, hospitals, you know, are, are saying, you know, data science is gonna have a bigger impact on healthcare than life science, you know, in the coming, whatever, you know, 10, 20 years, how do you enable that? >>Right. I, I have conversations with, with, with hospital executives are like, I got generations of data, you know, clinical diagnostic, demographic, genomic. And then I, I am envisioning these predictive outcomes over here. I wanna be able to predict, you know, once somebody's gonna get what disease and you know, what I have to do about it, um, how do I do that? <laugh> right. The day you go from, uh, you know, I have a lot of data too. I have these outcomes and then do me a miracle in the middle, in the middle of somewhere. Well, that's where we come in. We're gonna organize ourselves and then unpack thats, you know, and then we, we work, we through training models, you know, we can start delivering some of these insights, but the, the promise is extraordinary. We can change whole industries like pharma and, and, and healthcare. Um, you know, 30 effects of data, the economics will change. And you know, the societal outcomes, you know, um, quality of life disease, longevity of life is quite extraordinary. Supply chain management. That's all around us right >>Now. Well, there's a lot of, you know, high growth companies that were kind of COVID companies, valuations shot up. And now they're trying to figure out what to do. You've been pretty clear because of what you just talked about, the opportunities enormous. You're not slowing down, you're amping it up, you know, pun intended. So Frank Luman, thanks so much for coming on the cube. Really appreciate your time. >>My pleasure. >>All right. And thank you for watching. Keep it right there for more coverage from the snowflake summit, 2022, you're watching the cube.

>> Welcome back to Los Angeles. The cube is live. It feels so good to say that. I'm going to say that again. The cube is alive in Los Angeles. We are a coop con cloud native con 21. Lisa Martin with Dave Nicholson. We're talking to storm forge next. Cool name, right? We're going to get to the bottom of that. Please welcome Matt Provo, the founder and CEO of storm forge and Tom Ellery, the SVP of revenue storm forge, guys, welcome to the program. Thanks for having us. So storm forge, you have to say it like that. Like I feel like do you guys wear Storm trooper outfits on Halloween. >> Sometimes Storm trooper? The colors are black. You know, we hit anvils from time to time. >> I thought I, I thought they, that I saw >> Or may not be a heavy metal band that might be infringing on our name. It's all good. That's where we come from. >> I see. So you, so you started the company in 2015. Talk to me about the Genesis of the company. What were some of the gaps in the market that you saw that said we got to come in here and solve this? >> Yeah, so I was fortunate to always know. I think when you start a company, sometimes you, you know exactly the set of problems that you want to go after and potentially why you might be uniquely set up to solve it. What we knew at the beginning was we had a number of really talented data scientists. I was frustrated by the buzzwords around AI and machine learning when under the hood, this really a lot of vaporware. And so at the outset, really the, the point was build something real at the core, connect that to a set of problems that could drive value. And when we looked at really the beginnings of Kubernetes and containerization five, six years ago at its Genesis, we saw just a bunch of opportunity for machine learning, to play the right kind of role if we could build it correctly. And so at the outset it was what's going on. Why are people are people moving content workloads over to containers in the first place? And, you know, because of the flexibility and the portability around Kubernetes, we then ran into quickly its complexity. And within that complexity was really the foundation to set up the company and the solution for prob a set of problems uniquely and most beneficially solved by using machine learning. And so when we sort of brought that together and designed out some ideas, we, we did what any, any founder with a product background would do. We went and talked to a bunch of potential users and kind of tried to validate the problems themselves and, and got a really positive response. So. >> So Tom, from a business perspective, what, what attracted you to this? >> Well, initially I wasn't attracted just, I'll say that just from a startup standpoint. So I've been in the industry for 30 years, I've done six or seven pre IPO companies. I was exiting a private company. I did not want to go do another startup company, but being in the largest enterprise companies for the last 20 years, you see Kubernetes like wildfire in these places. And you knew there was huge amount of complexity and sophistication when they deployed it. So I started talking to Matt early on. He explained what they were doing and how unique the offer was around machine learning. I already knew the problems that customers had at scale with Kubernetes. So it was for me, I said, all right, I'm going to take one more run at this with Matt. I think we're, we're in a great position to differentiate ourselves. So that was really the launch pad for me, was really the technology and the market space. Those, those two things in combination are very exciting for us as a business. >> And, you know, a couple of bottles of amazing wine and a number of dinners that. >> Helps as well. >> That definitely helped twist his arm? >> Now tell us, just really kind of get into the technology. What does it do? How does it help facilitate the Kubernetes environment? >> Yeah, absolutely. So when organizations start moving workloads over to Kubernetes and get their applications up and running, there's a number of amazing organizations, whether it's through cloud providers or otherwise that that sort of solved that day one problem, those challenges. And as I was mentioning, you know, they moved because of flexibility and so developers love it and it starts to create a great experience, but there's these set of expectations. >> Where, where typically are these moving from? What you, what, what are the, what are the top three environments these are, that these are moving out of? >> Yeah. I mean, of course, non containerized environments, more generally. They could be coming from, you know, bare metal environment and it could be coming from kind of a VM driven environment. >> Okay. >> So when you look back at kind of the, the growth and Genesis and of VMs, you see a lot of parallels to what we're seeing now with, with containerization. And so as you move, it's, it's exciting. And then you get smacked in the face with the complexity, for all of the knobs that are able to be turned within a Kubernetes environment. It gives developers a lot of flexibility. These knobs, as you turn them, you have no visibility into how into the impact on the application itself. And so often organizations are become, you know, becoming more agile shipping, you know, shipping code more quickly, but then all of a sudden the, the cloud bill comes and they've, over-provisioned by 80, 90%, the, they didn't need nearly as many resources. And so what we do is we help understand the unique goals and requirements for each of the applications that are running in Kubernetes. And we have machine learning capabilities that can predict very accurately what organizations will need from a resource standpoint, in order to meet their goals, not just from a cost standpoint, but also from a performance standpoint. And so we allow organizations to typically save usually between 40 and 60% off their cloud bill and usually increased performance between 30 and 50%. Historically developers had to choose between cost and performance and their worldview on the application environment was very limited to a small set of what we would call parameters or metrics that they could choose from. And machine learning allows that world to just be blown open and not many humans are, are sophisticated in the way we think about multidimensional math to be able to make those kinds of predictions. You're talking about billions and billions of combinations, not just in a static environment, but an ongoing basis. So our technology sits in the middle of all that chaos and, and allows it to allows organizations just to re reap a whole lot of benefits that they otherwise may not ever find. >> Those numbers that you mentioned were, were big from a cost savings perspective than a performance increased perspective, which is so critical these days is in the last 18 months, we've seen so much change. We've seen massive pivots from companies in every industry to survive first of all, and then to be able to thrive and be able to iterate quickly enough to develop new products and services and get them to market to be competitive. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Sorry. I mean, the thing that's interesting, there was an article by Andreessen Horowitz. I don't know if you've taken to the cloud paradox. So we actually, if you start looking at that great example would be some of these cloud companies that are growing like astronomical rates, snowflakes, like phenomenal what they're doing, but go look at their cogs and what it's doing. Also, it's growing almost proportionately as the revenues growing. So you need to be able to solve that problem in a way that is sophisticated enough with machine learning algorithms, that people don't have to be in the loop to do it. And that the math can prove out the solution as you go out and scale your environments. And a lot of companies now are all transitioning over SAS based platforms, and they're going to start running into these problems that they go as they go to scale. And those are the areas that we're really focused and concentrating on as an organization. >> As the leader of sales, talk to me about the voice of the customer. What are some- you've been there six months or so we heard, we heard about the wine and the dinners is obvious. >> We haven't done a lot of that over the last 18 months. >> You'll have to make for lost time then >> As soon as he closes more business. >> Oh, oh there we go, we got that on camera! >> There's, there's been three, a market spaces that we've had some really good success in that. So we talked about a SAS marketplace. So there's a company that does Drupal and Matt knows very well up in Boston, Aquia. And they have every customer is a unique snowflake customer. So they need to optimize each of their customers in order to ensure the cost as well as performance for that customer on their site works appropriately. So that's one example of a SAS based company that where we can go in and help them optimize without humans doing the optimization and the math and the machine learning from storm forge doing that. So that's an area, the other area that we've seen some really good traction Cantonese with GSI. So part of our go to market model is with GSI. So if you think about what a GSI does, a lot of times customers are struggling either initially deploying Kubernetes or putting it in for 12, 18 months and realizing we're starting to scale, we got all kinds of performance issues. How do I solve it? A lot of these people go to the Accentures, the cognizance and other ones, and start flying their ninjas into kind of solve the problem. So we're getting a lot of traction with them because they're using our tool as a way to help solve the customer's problems. And they're in the largest enterprise customers as possible. >> So if I'm hearing what you're saying correctly, you're saying that when I deploy server less applications, I may in fact, get a bill for servers that are being used? Is it, is that what you're telling us? >> They're there in fact may be a bill for what was coined as server less. That is very difficult to understand, by the way, >> That's crazy talk, Matt. >> And connect back. >> Yeah. But absolutely we deal with that all the time. It's a, it's a painful process from time to time. >> Have you, have you, have you seen the statistics that's going on with how people, I mean, there was huge inertia from every CIO that you had have a cloud strategy in place. Everyone ran out and had a cloud strategy in place. And then they started deploying on Kubernetes. Now they're realizing, oh wow, we can run it, but it's costing us more than it ever costs us on prem and the operational complexity associated with that. So there's not enough people in the industry to help solve that problem, especially at the grass roots, that's where you need sophisticated solutions like storm forge and machine learning to help solve this at scale problem in a way that humans could never solve. >> And I would, I would just add to that, that the, the same humans managing the Kubernetes application environments today are likely the same humans that we're managing it in a, in a BM world. So there's a huge skills gap. I love what Castin announced at KU KU con this year around their learning environment where it's free. Come learn Kubernetes and this, and we need more of that. There's an enormous skills gap and, and the problems are complex enough in and of themselves. But when we have, when you add that to the skills gap, it it's, it presents a lot of challenges for organizations. >> What are some the ways in which you think that gap can start to be made smaller. >> Yeah. I mean, I think as more workloads get moved over, over, you know, over time, you see, you see more and more people becoming comfortable in an environment where scale is a part of what they have to manage and take care of. I love what the Linux foundation and the CNCF are doing around Kubernetes certifications, you know, more and more training. I think you're going to see training, you know, availability for more and more developers and practitioners be adopted more widely. You know, and I think that, you know, as the tool chain itself hardens within a CCD world in a containerized world, as that hardens, you're going to, you're going to start seeing more and more individuals who are comfortable across all these different tools. If you look at the CNCF landscape, I mean, today compared to four or five years ago, it's growing like crazy. And so, but, but there's also consolidation taking place within the tools. And people have an opportunity to, to learn and gain expertise within us. Which is very marketable by the way, >> Absolutely >> My employees often show me their LinkedIn profiles and remind me of how , how much they're getting recruited, but they've been loyal. So it's been a fantastic. >> Are there are so many parallels when you look at a VM in virtualization and what's happening with covers, obviously all the abstractions and stuff, but there was this whole concept of VM sprawl, you know, maybe 10 years in, if you think about the Kubernetes environment, that is exponentially bigger problem because of how many they're spitting up versus how, how many you spun up in VM. So those things ultimately need to be solved. It's not just going to be solved with people. It needs to be solved with sophisticated software. That's the only way you're going to solve a problem at scale like that. No matter how many people you have in the industry, it's just never going to solve the problem. >> So when you're in customer conversations, Tom, what are you say are like the top three differentiators that really set storm forage apart? >> Well, so the first one is we're very focused on Kubernetes only. So that's all we do is just Kubernetes environment. So we understand not just the applications that run in Kubernetes, but we understand the underlying architectures and techniques, which we think is really important. From a solution standpoint, >> So you're specialists? >> We are absolutely specialists. The other areas obviously are machine learning and the sophistication of our machine learning. And Matt said this really well, early on, I mean, the buzzwords are all out there. You can read them all up, all over the place for the last five to seven year AI and ML. And a lot of them are very hollow, but our whole foundation was based on machine learning and PhDs from Harvard. That's where we came out of from a technology background. So we were solving more, we weren't just solving the Kubernetes problems. We were solving machine learning problems. And so that's another really big area of differential for us. And I think the ability to actually scale and not just deal with small problems, but very large problems, because our focus is the fortune 2000 companies. And most of them have been deploying like financial services and stuff, Kubernetes for three, four or five years. And so they have had scale challenges that they're trying to solve. >> Yeah. It's Lisa and I talk about this concept of machine learning and looking under the covers and trying to find out is the machine really learning? Is it really learning or is it people are telling the machine, you need to do this. If you see that Where's the machine actually making those correlations and doing something intelligently. So can you give us an example of something that is actually happening that's intelligent? >> Well, so the, the, if this, then that problem is actually a huge source of my original frustration for starting the company, because you, you, you tag AI as a buzzword onto a lot of stuff. And we see that growing like crazy. And so I literally at the beginning said, if we can't actually build something real, that solves problems, like we're going to hang it up. And, you know, as Tom said, we came out of Harvard and, you know, there was a challenge initially of, are we just going to build like a really amazing algorithm? That's so heavy, it can never be productized or commercialized and it really should have just stayed in academia. And, you know, I the I, I will say a couple of things. One is I do not believe that that black box AI is a thing. We believe in what we would call human, augmented AI. So we want to empower practitioners and developers into the process instead of automate them out. We just want to give them the information and we want to save time for them and make their lives easier. But there's a kill switch on the technology. They can intervene at any point in time. They can direct the technology as they see fit. And what's really, really interesting is because their worldview of this application environment gets opened up by all the predictions and all of the learning that actually is taking place and, you know, give it because that worldview is open, they then get into a kind of a tinkering or experimental mindset with the technology. And they start thinking about all these other scenarios that they never were able to explore previously with the application. And, and so the machine learning itself is on an ongoing basis. Understanding changes in traffic, understanding and changes, changes in workloads for the application or demand. If you thought about like surge pricing for Uber, you know, because of a, a big game that took place. And you know, that, that change in peaks and valleys in demand, our, our technology not only understands those reactively, but it starts to build models and predict proactively in advance of the events that are going to take place on, on what ne- what kind of resources need to be allocated. And why that's the other piece around it is often solutions are giving you a little bit of a what, but they certainly are not giving you any explanation of the why. So the holy grail really like in our world is kind of truly explainable AI, which we're not there yet. Nobody's there yet. But human augmented AI with, with actual intelligence that's taking place that also is relevant to business outcomes is, is pretty exciting. So that's why where try to operate. >> Very exciting guys. Thanks for joining us, talking to us about storm forage, to feel like we need some store in forge. T-shirts what do you think? >> (unintelligible) >> See, I'm not even asking for the bottle of wine. I liked that idea. I thank Matt and Tom, thank you so much for joining us exciting company. Congratulations on your success. And we look forward to seeing what great things are to come from storm forage. >> Thanks so much for the time. >> Our pleasure. For Dave Nicholson. I'm Lisa Martin. We are alive in Los Angeles, the cube covering Kube con and cloud native con 21 stick around. Dave and I will be right back with our next guest.

>>From around the globe, it's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. >>We continue our coverage here on the cube of AWS reinvent 2020 I'm John Wallace, glad to be with you here and glad that you've joined us for an important discussion. You know, a lot of companies and many industries are making a very concerted effort toward promoting greater diversity and inclusion within their various workforces. And the renewable energy industry is certainly a big part of that movement. And here to talk about how AWS is supporting that and what the industry itself is doing. I'm proud to and pleased to welcome three guests. We have Shannon Kellogg with us from AWS. He's the vice president of public policy for the Americas. Shannon, thanks for being with us here on the cube. >>You back. Thank you. And great >>Whetstone, who is the president and CEO of the American council on renewable energy. We're going to call it a core from here on out, and also joining us Colleen Pickford, who was the EVP at ACOR, and welcome to both of you. Glad we could have it here on the cube. Glad to be here. John's great. You bet. Absolutely looking forward to this discussion first off, Shannon, let me, let me turn it over to you. I know, uh, AWS had some fairly significant announcements, uh, very recently about renewable and, um, you know, launching that on, around reinvent 2020, if he would take us through that a little bit about that commitment and what exactly that news was all about. >>Well, thank you on, uh, Amazon overall, uh, made a very, uh, significant announcement, uh, last week of 26, uh, renewable energy projects around the world. Uh, so many of those here in the U S but also, uh, many of those, uh, internationally and, um, the announcements, uh, collectively last week, along with what we've already announced previously in renewable energy projects now makes us the largest, uh, corporate, uh, buyer of renewable energy in the world. And so we're really excited about that. Um, this is part of our longterm, uh, efforts, uh, to be a hundred percent renewable, um, in our, uh, uh, footprint around the AWS infrastructure, uh, footprint, uh, but also a part of the broader, uh, commitment that we have at Amazon, including around climate and sustainability. So, uh, we were really super excited about last week from now. >>Yeah. Can you give me an idea of the flavor of the projects? I mean, you're talking about more than two dozen, uh, and as you said there around the world, so I assumed pretty wide variety of impacts and, and of, uh, initiatives as well, but maybe just to give those watching at home and idea of what the scale at this point. >>Well, it's a mix of, uh, solar and wind, uh, projects. Uh, like I said, both in the U S and abroad. Um, we had previously announced, uh, uh, several, um, solar projects in the Commonwealth of Virginia. For example, with last week's announcements, we added more, uh, solar, uh, in Virginia, we had previously, uh, uh, announced, uh, wind projects in Ohio and we added more, uh, wind, uh, and, um, uh, you know, large scale utility scale projects in Ohio. And so we also included other States of course, are in the U S and in countries as well, including, uh, one of the first offshore, uh, projects, uh, offshore wind projects that we've done, uh, with, uh, in this case with, uh, off of the coast of Germany. >>All right, Greg, when you hear about that kind of commitment that AWS is making, uh, in terms of, uh, not only from a geographical standpoint, but from a variety of standpoint, we're talking about when we're talking about solar, um, I mean, what is, what stands out to you with regard to the, the impact of that kind of commitment and that kind of initiative >>Kale it's really impactful. It's such an impressive thing to be able to bring that many new renewable projects that are that big online in a single year, that the total amount of new clean generation is on the order of 4,000 megawatts. It wasn't that long ago. That would be a great year for the renewable sector as a whole in the United States. If you go back 10, 12 years. So the idea that one company is now procuring so much renewable power is phenomenally exciting, and we're just so proud of Amazon and it's big progress toward Amazon. So a hundred percent goal, uh, and really, uh, toward the broader effort to reduce greenhouse gas emissions rapidly enough to stay within shouting distance of what scientists say we need to do in order to protect our planet's climate. >>Right. Great point. Uh, Colleen, I know you made an interesting point recently, you were talking about the accelerated membership program, which is, uh, an initiative that you've just launched, uh, in terms of trying to create greater diversity and equity and inclusion within the renewable energy, uh, workforce, uh, AWS big sponsor of that, um, founding partner. Uh, if you would tell us a little bit more about that program, uh, and, and what you see is what you hope it's near term or short term impact might be. And then maybe the long tail of that, you know, what kind of impact you can have eventually? >>Yeah, absolutely a core like toward like many in our industry, we've been looking at how we can play a role in creating a more equitable and just future. Um, and we were lucky because we have board members who went during our normal boring board meetings, and we're looking at our membership, asked me, they said, what are you doing to bring more diversity into a core membership? And I had to say, not enough, and that's really the Genesis for the accelerate program. And we were really fortunate to have Shannon and Amazon and our other board members work with us to develop a program that will create opportunities for companies that are owned or led by women or people of color to access a core in all of our benefits for two years and create additional resources for them to really grow their businesses in a way that they may not otherwise be able to. >>Yeah. Shannon did point out that you are board members, Colleen just, just mentioned, um, uh, of a core. What is it about this particular initiative that you think that has peaked the AWS entrust? >>This is Colleen said, uh, we were discussing at the board level, you know, ways that we could, um, do more as a or, uh, in this companies in this sector, promote diversity and inclusion. And we were brainstorming one day and came up with this, uh, with this idea, you know, it's, I'm really excited about it because, um, we're basically going out and offering a core membership and other services, uh, to entrepreneurs and small businesses in the sector led by, uh, minorities and, um, uh, women leaders. And this is just a fantastic opportunity to assist companies and organizations that are just getting started, uh, in an encourages innovation and encourages obviously diversity and inclusion. And so we're super excited about this effort. >>Is this, is this something that you can direct toward a company of any specific size? I mean, Shannon just touched on it, small business, um, but is, is this applicable? The, the, the accelerate program is this geared toward just the small businesses, larger >>Turn in Britain. Uh, we want to bring more diversity in the sector. We want to help. And it's really the smaller companies that need assistance and making those connections and participating, uh, and gaining the access, uh, and maybe mentoring pro bono services. Uh, we want to help those small companies become bigger, grow this sector and, and help enhance the diversity, the leadership in this sector from underrepresented communities. We want, you know, like much of the economy we recognize the renewable energy sector does not yet look like America looks and that's something we're all fighting to achieve. And it's, uh, incredibly helpful to have an Amazon is really the founding supporter of this program. And after Amazon stepped up, uh, seen a number of other companies join in and helping make this a reality. And we've got a lot of momentum now, very excited about the accelerate program. >>Colleen, I like to hear a little bit more from you on the partnership with AWS in general. Um, I know this isn't the first time that you all have partnered together. So if you would maybe fill in some of the blanks about that history that led us to this initiative, and then for them being the one of the founding partners along with the Berkshire Hathaway foundation. >>Sure. I mean, Amazon's been a member of our board for a number of years now, their commitment to the industry is clear and, you know, Shannon and his whole team actively participate across a core providing us with guidance and with insights like these. I think when you look at what we've done with the accelerate program, you know, it's not the first stop for a new small company organization like eight core, but we can have a measurable impact on their go to market strategies and their ability to grow their business. And Shannon and Amazon gave us that insight and they gave us some additional insights about what we could provide through the accelerate program that could really help make a difference for those companies. >>Hmm. You know, Greg, um, if I could just flip the script just a little bit here or, or, uh, get you back on to the discussion about climate change in general. I know that's just obviously, uh, the, the, a key driver to your organization's mission. Just your thoughts about, you know, where we stand, that you talked about trying to be within shouting distance of certain goals. I know there's been discussion about United States for joining the Paris accord, um, and committing to voluntary, uh, uh, emissions controls, just, I mean, where are we in your mind in terms of, of trying to seriously address the problem >>We're behind? I mean, the surprising thing is the renewable sector has been growing at a booming pace. We had over $60 billion in investment last year and wind and solar power, uh, one of the most important economic drivers for the country. Um, we're going to end up despite all of the difficulties presented by 2020 with a pandemic, we're going to have record renewable energy growth in 2020, we're going to bust through the old record, which was about 23,000 megawatts. And we'll be more like 27,000 megawatts. So that's great, but to get our arms around the climate issue, we know we have to grow much more rapidly. We've set a goal at a core of achieving a trillion dollars and investment by 2030, starting when we launched that program back in 2018, uh, and we made a lot of headway, but we're behind. We need to be investing closer to 90, a hundred billion a year in order to see that growth in logging at growth at a much higher rate, we feel really optimistic about getting a tailwind from the new administration, the desire to build back that, or, uh, the clear focus on policies and that value the ability to generate power, to make our economy grow and grow dramatically without greenhouse emissions, without adding to, uh, climate change. >>So, uh, um, I'm optimistic we can get there, but we know we gotta step it up as much as we've been growing as successful as we've been. It's not enough. And we know that >>Colleen, how does your organization in ACOR trumpet that, um, I know you talked about the nexus of finance and policy and technology. Obviously policy is what, uh, is at the center of this particular discussion, but, but how, how can you in the coming year, especially, um, be a, a key driver in that discussion? >>Well, I think, you know, we bring together a really unique stakeholder group from all across the renewable energy industry. And we take those stakeholders and it gives us a magnified voice to share the message of what's needed to really drive more Watts of renewable energy onto the grid. And what are those barriers in policy to making that possible? So, I mean, that's really how we do it is we bring together the most unique group together, >>But we appreciate the work. Uh, no question about that. It is a dire need that needs to be addressed. And we certainly thank you for that. Uh, Shannon, we thank AWS for their support, not only of this initiative, but of all that you're doing around the world. And, uh, we certainly wish you all the best of success with the accelerate membership program and creating these better hiring opportunities within your industry. So thank you all very much for joining us here on the cube.

>>from around the >>globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 Special coverage sponsored by AWS Worldwide Public Sector >>Hi and welcome to the Q Virtual and our coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 with special coverage of the public sector. I'm your host, Rebecca >>Knight. >>Today we have two guests for our segment. We have Kevin McCallum Jr. He is the chief technology officer at Maximus. Thanks for joining us, Kevin, and we have way. And we have Steve Zimmerman, who is the vice president of consulting services at Insight. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Steve. >>Thank you for having us appreciate it. >>So I want to start by asking. You both have to tell us a little bit more about your company's. Kevin. Let's start with you. Tell us a little bit more about Maximus. >>Yes, Thanks for having me. Maximus is a 40 year old company. We partner with state, federal and local governments to provide communities with critical health and human service programs. We leverage extensive experience to develop high quality services and solutions that are cost effective and tailored to their unique needs. One of the things that we do is offer government's ability to programs rapidly and scalable so that we can focus on the automation and their operations. We do services from Medicare to Medicaid, Welford work, and we have comprehensive solutions. Help the government's run effectively and efficiently. >>Great, Steve, tell us a little bit about insight. >>Yeah, sure. Um, Insight is a Fortune 500 company, you know, in 2020 will roughly do you know, probably a plus billion dollars in revenue. Global company. You know, we have thousands of treaty GIC relationships, but I'd say we have probably a couple 100 partners. We focus on one of those key partners to us is a W s. Right. As we go to market, Azzawi start, you know, working with our customers around transformation, of which we're gonna talk a little bit about that today with Kevin as it relates, Thio incite public sector. It's >>a pretty sizable >>part of our business. You know, we'll do about $1.5 billion in revenue. We have 200 plus contract vehicles, will work out there over 500 plus teammates, and we're seeing that business grow quarter over quarter, 20% growth. So It's a big investment for us and really looking forward to hearing Kevin talk about Maximus, uh, to the team, because obviously it's a big lever for us for inside public sector to get the word out there about the great transformation work. What you do with our customers. >>That's a great segue. So let's go back to you, Kevin, and talk a little bit about Maximus. Cloud transformation. Why did you hire insight for help you with this? >>Yeah, A Z We started our journey. One of the things we realized is as we were moving to the cloud is the experience. We needed a trusted partner and we ran an RFP process looking for partners out there that have done it that have done major data center programs. You're moving large companies, you know, We're moving about 6000 workloads 160 plus applications. So it was not a light or easy project and insight fit that. Aziz, We went through the interview process. It became very clear that they have done this for Fortune 500 companies in the past and their experience is beneficial to helping us drive to the future and the other factors is we wanted to make sure that once we were done with the project, we had the experience internally that they helped us with Thio drive forward. >>So talking about the importance of a trusted partner, which is such a key component of digital transformation cloud journeys tell us a little bit about the the strategy tied to the data center transformation and why you chose AWS. >>Sure. So, as we started doing our research, we did analysis across all of the cloud providers who were out there. AWS is clear leader in the marketplace. Their technology is better aligned with what Maximus has as the underlying technologies were, ah, majority of Lennox Base. We also have windows. We have Oracle, which, with the AWS depth on breath of our offerings, tied better to what we had. The other thing we were looking to do is get rid of our monolithic off the shelf products and use mawr of the cloud based products that are out there. Amazon has a very deep, uh, native technology that allows you to replace your old services where you had to bolt on or purchase another product to something that is integrated and streamlined, you know, down Thio, how do you monitor your systems? How do you do logs things like that. And, you know, as we looked at the time frame, we had to deliver this. They had to be able to grow with us. So as we were building out, new infrastructure were able to build where previously internally. With data centers, you have to buy infrastructure. You wait for it to arrive, you install it. Amazon has it at the click of a ah button. So we're able Thio basically have environment stood up in a day rather than having to wait weeks for it. So and the last thing was up time. So you know Amazon. They're five nines plus in up time and most of our contracts or three nines or better requirements. We had to find a bender that had multiple availability zones and regions that allowed us to be flexible in how we deployed. >>So talking about the convenience and the ability to streamline, and also the need for flexibility in the covert era. Of course, the word hybrid work environments has taken on a new meaning. But I want to ask you about how you see the hybrid era in the long term affecting Maximus. >>Yeah. Since Maximus is a government contractor, we will always be in a hybrid, uh, set up. So some of our contracts are very restrictive, especially when you get into our S d. O. D. And some of those agencies you have a fed ramp requirement is right. Well, with some of the federal agencies. So some of those components about to stay internally So where we can force, uh, you know, moving to the cloud because of the flexibility we have to deploy, that is the right will go. Um, co vid has introduced a new complexity. When it started back in March, you know, Maximus had 30,000 or so employees, and we instantly were thrown into You gotta make those employees get those employees to work from home. So we used Amazon's workspace Thio push our employees to work from home, where, you know, some of the employees and some of our contracts are customer owned equipment. So we couldn't actually take that equipment home. So we had to move to a B y o d model on Amazon workspaces in order to get the users to work from home and the complexity that, with what Amazon has to offer, allowed us to quickly move over 25,000 employees on the Amazon workspaces and work from home and then keeping the data center migration moving in the middle of it has also been, ah, challenge. So we will, in our federal space, still have internal data centers. Integration points that Amazon offers with their inter connects is key toe. How we make it a seamless process because we may have a business unit has stuff sitting in the data center and at Amazon, and they have to look at the seamless package. >>Steve, I want to bring you in here a little bit into this conversation. Cloud transformation, digital transformation. These are These are difficult and huge undertaking in the best of times. How does this pandemic this health crisis emergency. How has that affected the way you help your clients the way you work with your clients? Collaborate, communicate, talk a little bit about the effect of Kobe on this on the >>eso I would. I'll answer the question in a couple different ways, so I would agree with Kevin because, you know, forget about what we do with our customers. You know, we had a pivot really quick to write all remote workforce. You know, I think about my team, you know, 1000 plus teammates. Everyone's 80% travel all gone like, um, and I write eso everybody working remote. Everybody work from their homes. And but the challenging part was working with our customers. And, you know, I look at you know, I looked at with Kevin. You know, I've never met Kevin in person, you know, frankly, and there's teammates have come on to our to the project and execute executing this program remotely, so it makes it that much harder working with the customer. Um, you know, doing more video chats. You know, our methodology is built to be all remote. We have a proprietary tool called snap start that allows to bail scan environments. All that things done. Remote migrations could be done remote. The hard part is when you have to go on site because there's this stuff you have to go on site for around physical inventory to look at the equipment, but it just makes it that much harder. You know, I think he taking advantage of these video tools like we're doing today. You know, I can't tell me how many Skype You know how many calls have been on with Kevin like this and with his peers and with his leadership. But communication is really important program like this because, you know, in a program like this, there will be problems, right? And there will be challenges and, you know, getting on a call on being I will look at Kevin face to face and see what his reaction is really key. But you gotta work that much harder. You gotta work that much harder now in the pandemic. You know, I have other projects right now leaving with this other projects that, frankly, we have sold all remote and we're doing it all remote. And what I'm seeing with the bidam IQ is an acceleration of digital transformation. So, other similar projects like we're doing with Kevin. We're doing for other large fortune 500 companies because it's an acceleration of Hey, look, we gotta be old digital now, so it'll be interesting to see you know how the pandemic effects is long term because it is definitely accelerating out their digital transformation if you haven't done it, you're in trouble because it's gonna eat your company alive. >>Mhm. So, Kevin, he's talking. He talked a little bit about she talked a little bit about the importance of communication, particularly when work so many people are working from home. Um, talk a little bit of about other best practices that have emerged. Things that you have noticed. Things that you advice you would have to your peers. I mean, a Z we heard from Steve. If you're not there yet, you're in trouble. But for the for the people, for the executives out there who are watching this, What advice would you have for them? >>Yeah, I think that you know this this is brought to light. You know, there was always a view that you had to be in an office on a white board and actual actually functioning in that fashion. So, you know, before the pandemic, I was traveling three weeks a month on now, not traveling. I feel that I actually get more work done. I actually feel that I'm closer to the team just because we've introduced a lot of different digital channels. So now we have slack we have teams we do zoom. I require everybody to be on a on video, whereas previously before the pandemic you'd rarely have anybody on video. Um, and you've seen Ah, transformation is people pick up the phone a lot quicker than they did in the past. So it is, actually, I believe, brought the team closer together because now you know, everybody's on. Um, the downside of it is everybody's on all the time. So you've also had to have people step away from work because generally when they take PTO, they leave the office that go somewhere with their family. Now it's your kind of at home. There's not much to dio. You kinda have to force them to take the time off. One of the major factors that has has been interesting is we're doing this transformation in the middle of co vid with moving. All of our resource is the home. So we've we've had to take pauses, toe focus on getting everybody to work from home. Okay, now their work from home back to the project. And, you know, it's kind of a change the timeline a little bit, but in the end, you know we have some hard deadlines to meet. So it's been an interesting transition. You >>know, Kevin, um, I wanna agree with you two points is, uh you know, I think we're also getting not only your time, but also senior leadership, that I think, frankly, we never would have gotten, you know, I'm talking, you know, your peers and your leadership, Like I would fly for those meetings. I think about all the time that I've saved. But then again, it never ends, right? Never. It begins and never ends. And, you know, one of the things I'm concerned about is you know, the long term burnout factor for these folks because and depending on what state you're in, it never ends. You don't have anywhere to go, right. And you know, I think about teammates. I think you know, Kevin, I have talked about this related to our project like burdens and really thing right now for sure. 889 months into this thing. It's a real thing. Is people they have to focus on. Is is work sometimes. So it's a it's a concern for all of us is a project team is we start looking at the executing. This continue to execute this program for the next year. >>And it really highlights the importance of visionary leadership and a leader who cares who is empathetic, who is checking in with his or her team and making sure that the colleagues feel appreciated and cared for. I want you both to just give us look into your crystal ball is a little bit and talk about the where you see things 12, 24 months from now. Hopefully there will be a vaccine and we will return to somewhat of a of a new normal. Um, talk a little bit about where you see the Maximus transformation in two years. Absolutely. Yeah. Start with you. >>So s so you know, our cloud migration. We have some hard deadlines through next year, so we have a focus with insight to get that completed by September next year because our data center contracts are up and we've got to get out. You know, one of the the advantages of where we're headed is to move into more of a Dev ops model where you know you're able thio enable groups that have previously not been able to do work just do thio. The infrastructure was set up your now, enabling them to do deployments, get into production and have full stack ownership. That's really where our focus is. Is enablement of the teams that couldn't do the work previously because now you're in a different type of environment. Um, the other thing is being able thio be more agile. So as we move forward into the cloud journey, we as a company are consort contracts quicker. We are part of the, you know, contract tracing on unemployment insurance. We've done a lot of contracts with states that you know previously most of our contracts or anywhere from a 62 120 day startup. These contracts and contact tracing and covert projects. We've had to start them up in three days. That's having 500 employees online on workspaces on Genesis Cloud and fully functional, and it has been a challenge. But it also has introduced a a better way to do business because now we can we can move quicker for our customers and we can get contracts where they come and say, Hey, I need something in the next couple days. If you look further down the road. You know, it's taking the advantage of what Amazon has to offer, you know, moving from arm or monolithic programs like, you know, we sit on Oracle on Lenox today. You know, we could move into Aurora, which opens up the doors and floodgates, because then you manage, er a little differently. You manage your data a little differently. That's really where I think the the market's going and where we can actually transform our business. Even better, Thio, where we could be more flexible. We can start up quicker and, you know, be doom or things for our customers. >>The final word from you >>e I think it's gonna be a hybrid world, right? It's at least in the short term. And you know, we believe it's all about the workload and getting those workloads or applications, you know, in in the right spot, whether it be public or private and helping our customers with that journey, you know, just a pile on with Kevin talked about around Dev ops. Once you get a guy to get once you get all the stuff over there, you still got to manage it, Whether it's in a W. S or, you know, on Prem. You still gotta have a process to do that. So we see a lot of opportunity around the Modern I t operations and helping with that way. We want to continue to be a trusted partner. Thio Maximus. It's been a great relationship, but I want to thank Kevin and his his leadership team for trusting in us. And we look forward, Um, or more success with him in the future. >>Excellent. Thank you both so much. Kevin and Steve, thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >>Absolutely. Thank you. >>I'm your host, Rebecca. Night. Stay tuned. For more of the Cube virtual coverage of AWS reinvent with special coverage of the public sector.

>>from San Francisco. It's the Q covering pager duty. Summit 2019. Brought to you by pager Duty. >>Hey, welcome back. You're ready, Jeff? Rick here with the Cube. We're downtown San Francisco at the historic Western St Francis. A pager. Duty summit. It's the fourth year pager duty Summit, 30 year for the Q. Being here, I think they've about outgrown the venue. So he looked forward to seeing where we go next year. But we're excited to have somebody is at a very busy day. A lot of product announcements leading a lot of this effort. He's Jonathan. Randy, this s V P. Of product for pager duty. Jonathan, great to see you. Thanks for having me. So, congratulations. A lot of Ah lot of product announcements today. >>This is our biggest unveiling of the year. >>What s so I don't want you to pick your favorite baby, but what are some of the highlights? That goddess here today? >>Yes, a couple of big things today and tomorrow, not just today. >>Uh, >>first, we're really focused on applying. It is the buzzword of the sense of the new Millennium machine learning, but we're applying it across our entire portfolio, and we're doing it in a good way, not in a creepy way. We're doing in a good way to help organizations make sense of all the data they're getting. Tell him what's happening and, more importantly, what they could do to get better. And so that's something that we call our intelligence Dashboards is part of our analytics products. That's one big one, right? Right. And as you probably know, being here, pager duty is all about helping teams to be more effective in the moments that matter. And one of the other big announcements we have is intelligent triage. And so what is it way See with There's a lot of great companies here, partners that we're working with and whenever they're working, major issues within their companies were seconds, matter or even microseconds. They could lose millions of dollars that work in real time. They'll find out that there's multiple teams working on the same problems on Lee for one team to find out that somebody's undoing some of things that they're doing. So we focused in a huge way on building context, the visibility so that the teams in see what other issues air related That's what we call intelligent triage. So nobody needs to do double work, >>right? It's funny on the on the A I right in machine learning because they are the hot, hot, hot buzzword. But what I don't think are the hot buzzards, which is where all the excitement is happening, is it's the applied A I it's not Aye aye, for a eyes sake. Or were great. Aye aye company with an aye aye widget that we want to sell you. It's really leveraging a I within your core application space, your core domain expertise to make your abs do better things. And that's really what you guys have embraced. >>Absolutely. It's way have to be so empathetic to our users. Are users carry an unbelievable burden. They are on the front lines when things go down. They have, you know, minutes, seconds to make right decisions, and there's a lot of responsibility with that. So we're using a I in applied way to help them make sense of being overloaded with information, focus them in on the things that can make the biggest positive impact right, So it is applied a I in its purest form and >>the other part I found interesting is really anak knowledge mint that it's not just the people that have to fix the problem that needs to know about the problem, but there's a much larger kind of ecosystem that ecosystem around. That problem, whether it's sales reps executive for certain, is a whole bunch of people that should know, need to know, have value, to know beyond just the really smart person that I've now put on fixing the >>problem. You're bringing up a great point, which is a lot of people know page of duty because of how we help technical teams, developers and office people fix these incidents. When they happen right when a site goes down or when something search isn't working correctly but getting work done. We're taking that in its broadest context. It's beyond technical responders. First we have to service them. They're our core audience. They're why we're here today. But that unit of work getting work done goes beyond them as you're saying. It goes to what we call business responders who I could be working in a customer service team and while that incident is happening, I need that information so that I can ready my communication in case somebody calls up the sports desk and opens up a ticket. I need to know what to tell him right when it's gonna be fixed and how we're addressing their problems. Or I could be the CFO, a stakeholder and just want to know what's the real revenue impact of this outage of this time? So whether I'm taking action or I just need to know these air people outside of the sphere of the technical team and their business responders and stakeholders and we're automating the flow of information all of them so that they don't interrupt the poor responders team so they can focus on their work, >>right? Yeah. Another concept that kind of clarified today is all of your guys partnerships. You know, you've listened on your integration page on the Web site. It's clear. Well, data dog sales for Zenda Sumo AWS service now last CNN, IBM Blue mix. I mean, it's they can't go through the whole list. It's a huge list, but I think confusion in the market or maybe clarification is helpful is, you know, kind of where to those systems play versus your system when that Everyone wants to be a system of record, right? Everybody wants to be the database that has all the all the information. And yet you figured out a way to take your capabilities and augment all these other platforms and really puts you in a nice play across a really wide range of a problem. Sets. >>Yeah, it's it's so core to who we are way like to think of our pager duty platform. I always refer to it as it's a central nervous system, and what does that really mean? We always say it's a central nervous system and pager duty is about people. So all of those vendors, all of those companies, they're all valued partners. Many of them are customers of pager duty as well. They use us to keep their service is up on the monitoring world. But what pager duty is always focused on is ensuring that people two people collaboration to get real work done based on the information coming from those folks. So a lot of those vendors out there they play such an invaluable part of the ecosystem. They let us know they provide all the telemetry in the information in the data way, make sense of it and then engage people Finish that work. So in a way, you know that central nervous system is taking all these impulses just like a really central nervous system. And we're engaging the right people to help them effectively get the right right, and we couldn't do it without them. So the famous 350 plus way couldn't do what we do without them, and they're all here today. You >>didn't think I was going to read the whole hunt 350 >>Hope. That would be a long way >>Hades in desk on. And I know that was part of the new customer service and has been getting, you know, kind of your value kind of closer to the actual customer transaction. It's always in support of the customer transactions. The website's down transaction close, but this actually has taken it to the next level toe. Have a direct contact to the person who's actually engaged with the client to give them or inside is what's going on as being resolved in these type thing with a two way communication pattern. >>Yeah, it's something I'm personally really excited about. Where customer of zendesk as well. So we use end us and they use pager duty. So we get a lot of feedback on what's working, what's not working, which informed us and what we were doing. But there's two big problems in the industry that I've seen over, you know, two plus decades, which is customer service and support teams. They're dealing also on the front lines. Having them communicate and get information from development teams isn't always easy. And so both of us are really interested in kind of breaking down the walls between those organizations. But doing so in a way that's not interrupting those teams when they're doing their work that they have, right, so one, that's what we wanted to accomplish. How can we share information seamlessly automatically? So both teams are in sync, but they're not pestering each other and then to that work that's being done on the development side, when something does go wrong in a devil apps world, now, the customer support agents, the service agents they can get ahead of those cases that are being opened up, so they're not in the dark. They're not being flooded by tons of cases being opened up and they don't know what to say. They ready their communications and push it out because they're insane. >>It's really you think pager duty and notifications were surrounded by all these dashboards and computer stuff, but you made a really instant comment. It's all about the people you guys commissioned. A study called I'm gonna read an unplanned work, the human impact of an always on world and really going after unplanned work. Now it's funny, because everyone always talks about unplanned maintenance and on scheduled maintenance and the impacts on aircraft and the impacts on power generation and aircraft. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone couch it as as unplanned, which is completely disruptive fours on people and their lives, not to mention their service workers. And, according to the study, 2/3 of her pissed off and not too happy the way things are going at work anyway, with what kind of was zenith of that. And that's a really great way to reframe this problem into something much more human. >>The genesis of this all came from the concept that a CZ you'll read a lot we say we're always on. Let's keep it that way. Let's help help everyone. Keep it that way. It's a mantra with pager duty, and it comes from again when I say Genesis, it comes from even within our platform way. Don't have me Windows. We are on 24 7 360 days a year way have to be up when other service's aren't because of that. Whenever we work with organizations or vendors that that we pay for. And they say we have a maintenance window like a maintenance window my partner in crime runs engineering team are meant for. He always says maintenance Windows air for cars, not SAS software like there are no maintenance windows. And what that means as a first step is, if that's the case, there's no maintenance windows you're always on. Then you have to answer this question of how much time are you really spending unplanned work interruptions, right? So we really started taking not the heart. We really started trying to figure out what is the percentage everybody's trying to innovate more. That's planned war, right? Is it? 10% is a 20%. Is it 50%? The best organizations we see our 20 to 25% is unplanned work. We'll >>need 25% for the best organization. >>Yeah, so means not. So best organizations are very different, right? And so way feel that we uniquely can help organizations get way better at cutting down that time so that they can innovate more, Right? They're not firefighting. They're actually innovating and growing their business right. That's a big part of how we help people in these organizations do their job better. >>God, that's before you get in contact. Switching and pressure and disruption and >>way found some amazing statistics in my prior life. Iran Engineering. And it was at a sauce company. And what I found was whenever customers, whenever my top engineers would be put on Call Way, didn't have pager duty at the time, and they would be on call and interrupted on consecutive nights in the middle of the night. First, I would typically hear about when somebody was burned out is when I would see a resignation letter on my desk or somebody way no, after two or three or four successive interruptions in someone's personal life that goes on where they feel they're not being productive. One, they aren't productive at work either, to they're a huge retention risk. So way have that kind of data. We can look at it, and we can help management and organizations help them. And their teams take better care of their teams so that, you know, they're they're being more humane, humane knots, not human off pain, All right. And how you deal with those most expensive precious resource is in your company, which are your people is really important >>when they walk out the door every night, you know? So you gotta take care of him. So they come back the next day. It is? Yes. All right, Jonathan, last question is you as we wait, we're not quite done with some yet, but as we come to the closest on her arm really busy year. The AIPO. You guys have done amazing things, but you kind of flipped the calendar. Look forward. What are some of your kind of priorities as we as >>we move forward? Yeah. So it's been a crazy year. A lot of change and a couple things going forward. One were big partners with Amazon in a W S S O were attending reinvent. That's a big event for the company, but also at this event. As I mentioned before, it's probably our biggest unveiling of new innovations and products for our entire 12,000 plus customers. So for us, it may seem like it's an end. It's really just the beginning, because all of these products and intelligent triage business response, intelligent dashboards, these products that are apart, his capabilities that are part of our analytics and events intelligence on the pager duty, platform way have to keep evolving This we have to keep kind of moving forward because the world is always on and we've got to keep it that way. >>What? Andre just had a great line in his keynote about being scared is the generator of wisdom. But here it is, right here. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. Not necessarily fear, but fear getting caught. Keep moving that we have ahead of the pack. All right, Jonathan, Thanks for taking a few minutes and congratulations. I'm sure tough getting all those new babies out this week, but what a great what a great job. Thank you so much. All right. Pleasure. He's Jonathan. I'm Jeff. You're watching the cube. Where? Pager duty Summit in San Francisco. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> from New York City. It's Theo Cube covering new relic Future Stack 2019. Brought to you by new relic. >> Welcome back on stupid a minute. This is the cubes coverage here of future stack 2019 new relics. 70 year they're doing the show is the U. S. Show. They actually bring these few locations around the globe, right next door to Grand Central Station and about 600 in attendance. And been really excited to kick off with the number of the users here at the show and happened. Welcome program. First time guests. Another cut. Who is the technical fellow in chief? Architect with Genesis. You been at the event a number of times. You're speaking at the event today, but let's start with Genesis. Customer experience is something that I think a lot of people been hearing about on. That is the product. The Genesis has tell us a little bit about the company itself. Sure. >> Yeah. So, Genesis, uh, brain that Maybe not. Everybody knows, but they certainly transitive Lee know us. We're a customer experience platform. We like to say that we're a technology company, but we power. The experience is about 25 billion customer experiences every year for 11,000 plus customers. About 1000 different countries around the world s So we are all about having a connection between brands and their customers, and we enable that >> s o not only some of the cloud shows. I was an enterprise connect earlier this year and definitely was, you know, something I heard a lot about see Exit really important Not only how customers interact with the brand, but internally how you know we treat the employees and that interaction is something that that is raised up. People are kind of important inside, but we're going to talk too much about the people here. We're gonna talk about the technology as the chief architect of this gives a little bit about what you have your arms around in a responsible for >> sure s o for for me, of the project. Your cloud was the name for for a long time, Genesis Cloud as of yesterday. So we are a public cloud offering as a CX platform and I say platform because we made the transition from just being a product to a platform. In my opinion last year, more than half of our FBI work is actually code we didn't right? So I think people using you as a programmable thing is when you become a platform. So I'm responsible for things like cloud architecture for understanding. Let's say industry trends. What technologies? We're gonna use a lot of eight of us service designed technical vetting, general cat hurting that sort of thing, >> Right? So you said your public cloud, but you said it sits on top of AWS. But it's a platform that your customers can then build on top. >> That's right. That's right. So we like to think of ourselves as C X. As a service. We've had some that use us still like a product all shrink wrapped, ready to go, others that want to extend us either writing their own. You guys writing their own back ends their own integration points. We make all of that possible. >> All right, so I'm expecting you have a bit of an opinion when it comes to that platform, As Lou said with a capital P A, and it's gotta be programmable, it's gonna be open. Tell us what your thoughts about new relic kind of entering, you know, new relic one being they said today the first, and only if their claim of observe ability platform s o give us your thoughts around. >> Absolutely. Yeah. S O. I like to think that we have been using the relic as a platform for awhile, whether they knew it or wanted it or not way have a fairly rigorous continuous delivery pipeline. And we are very big believers in infrastructure is code and develops principles. So for us, the engineering teams don't just own the code that they write, but they own the infrastructure definitions. They even own alert definitions, dashboard configurations. And we push that information directly into the relic as our deployments happen. Live hundreds of times a week around the globe. >> All right, so how do these modern architecture's enable you to run a team? >> I can't imagine trying to manage 350 plus Micro service is in production, which is roughly what we have today over 1000 Lambda Functions way can't improve what we don't measure. Everyone likes to say that, but it's true. I have a little bit of an a p m background from from places past. So I was a firm believer that you need to invest early and observe ability and metrics. So we've been a day one kind of new relic subscriber in the cloud space. Everything from understanding how the infrastructure parts work now to serve earless. It's all been about moving up the value stack like commodity metrics of servers is great and still needed. But transactional information and now trace information is absolutely essential. >> Okay, in the Kino this morning, they walk through their metrics events, logs and traces. Where are you with, you know, these various sources of data and harnessing the value of that. >> So I would say, with fairly early towards the tracing part before new relic headed as a managed thing they had cross at tracing. I'm sure you're familiar with that sort of the prior incarnation of distributed tracing on. We leverage that pretty pretty heavily, but it obviously doesn't have quite the same utility a cz what the new open tracing standards provide s so we do things like having correlation i d. S. That let us tag and follow things around. Now we just get to off load that from our team's being as responsible for it. And now the platform gives it to us. >> Yeah. Glen is open source important to your organization? >> Absolutely. We try Thio, give back some ourselves. In fact, one of the one of the nerd lets the nerd packs that Lou mentioned on stage was one that our team wrote s Oh, yeah, way believe not only that, we need a p i's and programmatic access to do our jobs, but we like toe enable and help other people with the same >> Eric Spence got a shout out on the Maquis note was that the thing that you were talking about it is >> I expect to see us probably released two or three more nerd packs before the end of the year Way, way are eager to do that rather than just investing in all of our own. You I that we had glass over the top of the relic. Now we actually just get to put those components deeper inside of new relic proper. >> Okay, eyes there. Anything else from the announcements this morning that you're looking forward to leveraging? >> So I think there's there's definite changes in the A p M space. You'll hear a little bit more, probably in the deep dives one of the talks I'm having later with not even she will be talking about. Some of those things were definitely interested in that. Open telemetry has some value. Greater Genesis definitely has investments around things like Prometheus and other sorts of monitoring. So if I'm not talking about just the public cloud side of it and other aspects there definitely things we can leverage. >> All right, Glenn gives us share a little bit, if you can. About what? What you're talking about here at the show. So one of >> the big mitts is entity centric. Observe, ability. The idea again that we're not just looking at servers and static infrastructure. We're looking at things that are very ephemeral. We have a lot of dynamics scale on our platform on. We need ways to actually frame what we're looking at at the level of Micro Service's but often level like business applications. So even when we're creating some of these extension points like the one you just mentioned way framed that within the context of a service that does a particular vertical slice on dhe, that's that's kind of where we like to invest. So we like to live. >> Okay, um, you know what's what's on your road map of? You know where you're going with your journey and is there anything that you're looking for? Beyond what was announced today from new relic ER from the ecosystem at large, >> I think there's lots of refinements of what was announced today that will help us theeighty I ops side, I think not just for noise reduction, but also for like, early early signal detection. It's a pretty fascinating space. Will likely invest some of our own dollars in times trying to help that along. Definitely Ah, lot of distributed tracing and Maur investment. There is a big piece for us. I think the A PM space. There are areas that I'd like to see a peon vendors invest in that goes beyond what now, I guess, is becoming more, more traditional, like transaction information. We have a lot of a i machine learning ourselves, and I think monitoring those types of workloads is going to be very different. As big of a paradigm shift as it was to go from classic monitoring Transactional. I think we're about to see that happen again in the >> industry. Yeah. What can you share some of the kind of the A I journey that you're going through a genesis where you are, You know what the maturity level is of solutions that you're using and >> sure way have a fairly robust aye aye team on products range from in the W m space back to the people that you mentioned at the first part of the talk way have workforce optimization, workforce management, and we brought a I algorithms to that a lot of time. Siri's forecasting that used certain machine learning techniques. We've invested a fair amount in until you and Opie any are so everything from sentiment detection to live transcription that we built in house to our own body engines that d'oh the new dialogue management. So we have a fairly robust bit there and some on the management side on the operational back in that we used to try to improve our quality of service on reduced any sort of incidents on the platform. >> All right, it's your third year. Third time coming to this show was what brings you back? What you excited about? I kind of dig in and take away from the event this year. >> I think the relics always been a partner in my stance, not just a vendor we believe so deeply in the observe ability message that one I want to be part of shaping that narrative. Eso coming to future sack actually talking to a lot of other executives, seeing where they're going and kind of sharing that use case, but also trying to be a little bit of a lighthouse. Thio, the new relic team as well, is what brings me back every year. >> Observe ability is something that it hurt. A number of startups talking about in the last couple of years were, in your opinion, does new Rolex it compared to the marketplace overall, obviously, they just kind of announced the observe ability, you know, full suite with new relic one. But you know what your viewpoint is? Toe have their wealth, their position? >> Where did I think their position? I think they are best of breed for what we're currently seeing. Owners of ability. There are other things, I think, where we could cobble together bits from multiple vendors but frankly, having application performance monitoring along with infrastructure, along with data being cold from the cloud platforms that we're all in, like, eight of us. They've got a unique place. I think the power of their agent technology has proven itself over time as well. My guidance to most other other companies that I speak with about this subject is don't just trust that it's all magic invest on. And I think they make themselves easy to invest in on. I think this platform play is a good one for them. >> All right. Well, another cut. Thank you so much for joining us. Sharing your journey, What we're doing in the best of luck on your presentation today. Thank you, sir. All right. Be back with lots more coverage here from a new relic. Future stack 2019. I'm still Minutemen. And thank you for watching the Cube.

>> from Austin, Texas. It's Theo Cube, covering pure storage. Accelerate 2019. Brought to you by pure storage. >> Welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin Day Volante is my co host were a pure accelerate 2019 in Austin, Texas. A couple of guests joining us. Next. Please welcome Barack elected director product management for slunk. Welcome back to the Cube. Thank you. And guess who's back. Von Stewart. V. P. A. Technology from pure Avon. Welcome back. >> Hey, thanks for having us guys really excited about this topic. >> We are too. All right, so But we'll start with you. Since you're so excited in your nice orange pocket square is peeking out of your jacket there. Talk about the Splunk, your relationship. Long relationship, new offerings, joint value. What's going on? >> Great set up. So Splunk impure have had a long relationship around accelerating customers analytics The speed at which they can get their questions answered the rate at which they could ingest data right to build just more sources. Look at more data, get faster time to take action. However, I shouldn't be leading this conversation because Split Split has released a new architecture, a significant evolution if you will from the traditional Splunk architectural was built off of Daz and a shared nothing architecture. Leveraging replicas, right? Very similar what you'd have with, like, say, in H D. F s Work it load or H c. I. For those who aren't in the analytic space, they've released the new architecture that's disaggregated based off of cashing and an object store construct called Smart Store, which Broth is the product manager for? >> All right, tell us about that. >> So we release a smart for the future as part of spunk Enterprise. $7 to about a near back back in September Timeframe. Really Genesis or Strong Smart Strong goes back to the key customer problem that we were looking to solve. So one of our customers, they're already ingesting a large volume of data, but the need to retain the data for twice, then one of Peter and in today's architecture, what it required was them to kind of lean nearly scale on the amount of hardware. What we realized it. Sooner or later, all customers are going to run into this issue. But if they want in just more data or reading the data for longer periods, of time, they're going to run into this cost ceiling sooner or later on. The challenge is that into this architecture, today's distributes killer dark picture that we have today, which of all, about 10 years back, with the evolution of the Duke in this particular architecture, the computer and story Jacqui located. And because computer storage acqua located, it allows us to process large volumes of data. But if you look at the demand today, we can see that the demand for storage or placing the demand for computer So these are, too to directly opposite trans that we're seeing in the market space. If you need to basically provide performance at scale, there needs to be a better model. They need a better solution than what we had right now. So that's the reason we basically brought Smart store on denounced availability last September. What's Marceau brings to the table is that a D couples computer and storage, So now you can scale storage independent of computers, so if you need more storage or if you need to read in for longer periods of time, you can just kill independent on the storage and with level age, remote object stores like Bill Flash bid to provide that data depository. But most of your active data said still decides locally on the indexers. So what we did was basically broke the paradigm off computer storage location, and we had a small twist. He said that now the computer stories can be the couple, but you bring comfort and stories closer together only on demand. So that means that when you were running a radio, you know, we're running a search, and whenever the data is being looked for that only when we bring the data together. The other key thing that we do is we have an active data set way ensure that the smart store has ah, very powerful cash manager that allows that ensures that the active data set is always very similar to the time when your laptop, the night when your laptop has active data sets always in the cash always on memory. So very similar to that smarts for cash allows you to have active data set always locally on the index. Start your search performance is not impact. >> Yes, this problem of scaling compute and storage independently. You mentioned H. D. F s you saw it early on there. The hyper converged guys have been trying to solve this problem. Um, some of the database guys like snowflakes have solved it in the cloud. But if I understand correctly, you're doing this on Prem. >> So we're doing this board an on Prem as well as in Cloud. So this smart so feature is already available on tramp were also already using a host all off our spun cloud deployments as well. It's available for customers who want obviously deploy spunk on AWS as well. >> Okay, where do you guys fit in? So we >> fit in with customers anywhere from on the hate say this way. But on the small side, at the hundreds of terabytes up into the tens and hundreds of petabytes side. And that's really just kind of shows the pervasiveness of Splunk both through mid market, all the way up through the through the enterprise, every industry and every vertical. So where we come in relative to smart store is we were a coat co developer, a launch partner. And because our object offering Flash Blade is a high performance object store, we are a little bit different than the rest of the Splunk s story partner ecosystem who have invested in slow more of an archive mode of s tree right, we have always been designed and kind of betting on the future would be based on high performance, large scale object. And so we believe smart store is is a ah, perfect example, if you will, of a modern analytics platform. When you look at the architecture with smart store as brush here with you, you want to suffice a majority of your queries out of cash because the performance difference between reading out a cash that let's say, that's NAND based or envy. Emmy based or obtain, if you will. When you fall, you have to go read a data data out of the Objects store, right. You could have a significant performance. Trade off wean mix significantly minimized that performance drop because you're going to a very high bandwith flash blade. We've done comparison test with other other smart store search results have been published in other vendors, white papers and we show Flash blade. When we run the same benchmark is 80 times faster and so what you can now have without architecture is confidence that should you find yourself in a compliance or regulatory issue, something like Maybe GDP are where you've got 72 hours to notify everyone who's been impacted by a breach. Maybe you've got a cybersecurity case where the average time to find that you've been penetrated occurs 206 days after the event. And now you gotta go dig through your old data illegal discovery, you know, questions around, you know, customer purchases, purchases or credit card payments. Any time where you've got to go back in the history, we're gonna deliver those results and order of magnitude faster than any other object store in the market today. That translates from ours. Today's days, two weeks, and we think that falls into our advantage. Almost two >> orders of magnitude. >> Can this be Flash Player >> at 80%? Sorry, Katie. Time 80 x. Yes, that's what I heard. >> Do you display? Consider what flashlight is doing here. An accelerant of spunk, workloads and customer environment. >> Definitely, because the forward with the smart, strong cash way allow high performance at scale for data that's recites locally in the cash. But now, by using a high performance object store like your flash played. Customers can expect the same high performing board when data is in the cash as well as invented sin. Remorseful >> sparks it. Interesting animal. Um, yeah, you have a point before we >> subjects. Well, I don't want to cut you off. It's OK. So I would say commenting on the performance is just part of the equation when you look at that, UM, common operational activities that a splitting, not a storage team. But a Splunk team has to incur right patch management, whether it's at the Splunk software, maybe the operating system, like linen store windows, that spunk is running on, or any of the other components on side on that platform. Patch Management data Re balancing cause it's unequal. Equally distributed, um, hardware refreshes expansion of the cluster. Maybe you need more computer storage. Those operations in terms of time, whether on smart store versus the classic model, are anywhere from 100 to 1000 times faster with smart store so you could have a deployment that, for example, it takes you two weeks to upgrade all the notes, and it gets done in four hours when it's on Smart store. That is material in terms of your operational costs. >> So I was gonna say, Splunk, we've been watching Splunk for a long time. There's our 10th year of doing the Cube, not our 10th anniversary of our 10th year. I think it will be our ninth year of doing dot com. And so we've seen Splunk emerged very cool company like like pure hip hip vibe to it. And back in the day, we talked about big data. Splunk never used that term, really not widely in its marketing. But then when we started to talk about who's gonna own the big data, that space was a cloud era was gonna be mad. We came back. We said, It's gonna be spunk and that's what's happened. Spunk has become a workload, a variety of workloads that has now permeated the organization, started with log files and security kind of kind of cumbersome. But now it's like everywhere. So I wonder if you could talk to the sort of explosion of Splunk in the workloads and what kind of opportunity this provides for you guys. >> So a very good question here, Right? So what we have seen is that spunk has become the de facto platform for all of one structure data as customers start to realize the value of putting their trying to Splunk on the watch. Your spunk is that this is like a huge differentiate of us. Monk is the read only skim on reed which allows you to basically put all of the data without any structure and ask questions on the flight that allows you to kind of do investigations in real time, be more reactive. What's being proactive? We be more proactive. Was being reactive scaleable platform the skills of large data volumes, highly available platform. All of that are the reason why you're seeing an increase that option. We see the same thing with all other customers as well. They start off with one data source with one use case and then very soon they realize the power of Splunk and they start to add additional use cases in just more and more data sources. >> But this no >> scheme on writer you call scheme on Reed has been so problematic for so many big data practitioners because it just became the state of swamp. >> That didn't >> happen with Splunk. Was that because you had very defined use cases obviously security being one or was it with their architectural considerations as well? >> They just architecture, consideration for security and 90 with the initial use cases, with the fact that the scheme on Reid basically gives open subject possibilities for you. Because there's no structure to the data, you can ask questions on the fly on. You can use that to investigate, to troubleshoot and allies and take remedial actions on what's happening. And now, with our new acquisitions, we have added additional capabilities where we can talk, orchestrate the whole Anto and flow with Phantom, right? So a lot of these acquisitions also helping unable the market. >> So we've been talking about TAM expansion all week. We definitely hit it with Charlie pretty hard. I have. You know, I think it's a really important topic. One of things we haven't hit on is tam expansion through partnerships and that flywheel effect. So how do you see the partners ship with Splunk Just in terms of supporting that tam expansion the next 10 years? >> So, uh, analytics, particularly log and Alex have really taken off for us in the last year. As we put more focus on it, we want to double down on our investments as we go through the end of this year and in the next year with with a focus on Splunk um, a zealous other alliances. We think we are in a unique position because the rollout of smart store right customers are always on a different scale in terms of when they want to adopt a new architecture right. It is a significant decision that they have to make. And so we believe between the combination of flash array for the hot tear and flash played for the cold is a nice way for customers with classic Splunk architecture to modernize their platform. Leverage the benefits of data reduction to drive down some of the cost leverage. The benefits of Flash to increase the rate at which they can ask questions and get answers is a nice stepping stone. And when customers are ready because Flash Blade is one of the few storage platforms in the market at this scale out band with optimized for both NFS and object, they can go through a rolling nondestructive upgrade to smart store, have you no investment protection, and if they can't repurpose that flash rate, they can use peers of service to have the flesh raise the hot today and drop it back off just when they're done within tomorrow. >> And what about C for, you know, big workloads, like like big data workloads. I mean, is that a good fit here? You really need to be more performance oriented. >> So flash Blade is is high bandwith optimization, which really is designed for workload. Like Splunk. Where when you have to do a sparse search, right, we'll find that needle in the haystack question, right? Were you breached? Where were you? Briefed. How were you breached? Go read as much data as possible. You've gotta in just all that data, back to the service as fast as you can. And with beast Cloud blocked, Teresi is really optimized it a tear to form of NAND for that secondary. Maybe transactional data base or virtual machines. >> All right, I want more, and then I'm gonna shut up sick. The signal FX acquisition was very interesting to me for a lot of reasons. One was the cloud. The SAS portion of Splunk was late to that game, but now you're sort of making that transition. You saw Tableau you saw Adobe like rip the band Aid Off and it was somewhat painful. But spunk is it. So I wonder. Any advice that you spend Splunk would have toe von as pure as they make that transition to that sass model. >> So I think definitely, I think it's going to be a challenging one, but I think it's a much needed one in there in the environment that we are in. The key thing is to always because two more focus and I'm sure that you're already our customer focus. But the key is key thing is to make sure that any service is up all the time on make sure that you can provide that up time, which is going to be crucial for beating your customers. Elise. >> That's good. That's good guidance. >> You >> just wanted to cover that for you favor of keeping you date. >> So you gave us some of those really impressive stats In terms of performance. >> They're almost too good to be true. >> Well, what's customer feedback? Let's talk about the real world when you're talking to customers about those numbers. What's the reaction? >> So I don't wanna speak for Broth, so I will say in our engagements within their customer base, while we here, particularly from customers of scale. So the larger the environment, the more aggressive they are to say they will adopt smart store right and on a more aggressive scale than the smaller environments. And it's because the benefits of operating and maintaining the indexer cluster are are so great that they'll actually turn to the stores team and say, This is the new architecture I want. This is a new storage platform and again. So when we're talking about patch management, cluster expansion Harbor Refresh. I mean, you're talking for a large sum. Large installs weeks, not two or 3 10 weeks, 12 weeks on end so it can be. You can reduce that down to a couple of days. It changes your your operational paradigm, your staffing. And so it has got high impact. >> So one of the message that we're hearing from customers is that it's far so they get a significant reduction in the infrastructure spent it almost dropped by 2/3. That's really significant file off our large customers for spending a ton of money on infrastructure, so just dropping that by 2/3 is a significant driver to kind of move too smart. Store this in addition to all the other benefits that get smart store with operational simplicity and the ability that it provides. You >> also have customers because of smart store. They can now actually bursts on demand. And so >> you can think of this and kind of two paradigms, right. Instead of >> having to try to avoid some of the operational pain, right, pre purchase and pre provisional large infrastructure and hope you fill it up. They could do it more of a right sides and kind of grow in increments on demand, whether it's storage or compute. That's something that's net new with smart store um, they can also, if they have ah, significant event occur. They can fire up additional indexer notes and search clusters that can either be bare metal v ems or containers. Right Try to, you know, push the flash, too. It's Max. Once they found the answers that they need gotten through. Whatever the urgent issues, they just deep provisionals assets on demand and return back down to a steady state. So it's very flexible, you know, kind of cloud native, agile platform >> on several guys. I wish we had more time. But thank you so much fun. And Deron, for joining David me on the Cube today and sharing all of the innovation that continues to come from this partnership. >> Great to see you appreciate it >> for Dave Volante. I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching the Cube?

>> Hello, and welcome to the special. Keep conversation here in Palo Alto, California John Furrier, Co-Host of the Cube. We're here with Jonathan Rosenberg, CTO chief technology officer and head of AI for Five9. Jonathan. Great. Great to see you. Thanks for coming in. >> Thanks. My pleasure to be here. >> So you've had a stellar career? Certainly. Technical career going way back to Lucent Technologies. Now here at Five9, Cisco along the way. You've been a really technical guru. You've seen the movie before. This's happening. Every wave of innovation, multiple ways you've been on. Now you're on the next wave, which is cloud AI, CTO Five9. Rapidly growing company. Yes, it is. What attracted you to five? >> Yeah, Great question. There's actually a lot of things that brought me to Five9. I think probably the most important thing is that I've got this belief, and I'm very motivated for myself. A least to do technology and innovate and create new things. And this belief that were on the cusp of the next generation of technology in the collaboration industry. And that next generation is going to be powered by artificial intelligence, and one of the ways I sort of talked about this is that if you look at the entire history of collaboration, up til now meetings, telephony, messaging was to figure out, a way to get the bits of data from one person to another person fast enough to have a conversation. That's it. You know, once we got the audio connected, we just moved the audio packets in the video packets and messaging from one place to another. And we didn't actually analyze any of that because we couldn't. We didn't have the technology to do that. But now, with the arrival of artificial intelligence and particular speech recognition, natural language processing, we can apply those technologies to that content and take all this dark data that's been basically thrown away the instant it was received, to process it and do things. And that is going to completely transform every field of collaboration, from meetings to messaging, to telephony. And I believe that so strongly, that is, That's great. That's going to be my next job. I wanna work on that. And it's going to start in the Contact Center because a contact center is the ideal place to do that. It's the tip of the spear for AI in collaboration, >> and it's in a really great area. Disruptive innovation are absolutely so Take us through the impact was one of things I have observed in this industry is you have You know, I don't want to say mainframe clients served to go back to date myself, but there was that wave of client server computer >> mainframes. Cool again. We just called clout. Now, hey, is >> exactly. So you have these structural industry waves take us through the waves of how we got here and what's different now? And why can't the old guard or the older incumbents surviving if you're not out in front that next wave your driftwood. So what? What's What's his ways mean? Why is this important? What has to change to be successful? >> Exactly. So there's been this this whole like you said these waves. So the first wave of telecommunications was like hardware: circuit switching, big iron switches, sitting in telco data centers, you know, And then that era transitioned to software and that was with the arrival voiceover IP and technologies like SIP, and that made it more less expensive. And anyone could do it, and it transformed the industry. The next wave, the third wave were still like halfway through and in some areas, actually, just beginning contact, center was early here, the third wave is cloud, right is now we're moving that software to a totally new delivery vehicle that allows us to deliver innovation and speed. And that wave has now enabled us to start the next wave, which is on ly in its infancy, which is AI right, and the application of machine learning techniques to automate all kinds of aspects of how people communicate in collaborate. >> I think cloud is a great example of Seen a. I, which had been a concept around when I was in computer science. Back in the eighties, there was a guy you know theory, and it's the science of it is not so much change, but computing's available. The data to be analysed for the first time is available. Yeah, you mentioned analyzing the bits writings. There's now a key part. What does it actually mean? Teo. Someone who's has a contact center has a large enterprise. Says, you know what? I got to modernize. How does A I fit them? What is actually going on, >> right? Great question. So a I actually consult lots different problem at the end of the day again, Hey, eyes like this, Let's. It's the biggest buzz word right on. It's in my title. So, like I'm a little guilty, right? >> We'll get a pay raise for, But >> what? It comes down to this, really this Korean machine learning, which is really like a fancy new algorithmic technique for taking a bunch of data and sort of making a decision based on it. So And it turns out, as we've learned that if you have enough data and you can have enough computing and we optimize the algorithms, you could do some amazing things, right? And it's been applied to areas like speech recognition and image recognition and all these kind of things. Self driving cars that are all about decision process is, Do I go left? I go right? Is this Bob? Is this Alice? Did the users say and or did they say or write those air all decision process? Is that these tools economy? What does it mean? The Contact Center? It means everything in the context. And if you look at the conduct center. It's all about decision. Process is, you know, where should this call get routed? What's the right agent to handle the call right now? When the agent gets the call, what kind of things should they be saying? What I do with the call after the call is done, How should the agent use their time? All those things are decision processes and their key to the contact center. So so, aye, aye. And Emily going to transform every aspect of it and, most importantly, analyzing what the person is saying connecting with the customer, allowing the age to >> be more. You know, I think this is really one of the most cutting edge areas of the business. And the technology and throw in CEO was talking about an emotional cognitive recognition around. Yeah, connecting with customers and data certainly is going to be a part of that. But as machine learning continues to get it, Sea legs. Yeah, you seeing kind of two schools of thought? I call it the Berklee School. Hard core mathematics. Throw math at it. And then you've got this other side of a machine learning which is much more learning. Yeah, it's less math. More about adaptive and self learning. One's deterministic one's non deterministic is starting to see these use cases where Yeah, there's a deterministic outcome, right throw machine learning at a great exactly helped humans come curate, create knowledge, create value that you've got a new emerging use case of non deterministic, like machine learning environments where I could be driving my test Look down the road or my company's run the Contact Center. I gotto understand what's gonna happen before it happens. Right? Talkabout this. What's your thoughts on this is This isn't really new, pioneering area. What's your view on >> this? Yeah, so I think it actually straight sort of a key point. I wantto narrow enough from what she said, which is that a lot of these problems still, it's about the combination of man and machine, right? It's that there's things that you know are going to be hard for the machine to predict. So the human in their usage of the product, teaches the machine, and the machine, as it observes, helped the human achieved mastery. And that human part, by the way, is even more important in the conduct centre than anywhere else. At the end of the day, your customer and you call up, you're reaching for human connection. You're calling this. You want to talk, you've got a problem. You need someone to not just give you the answers, but empathize with youto understand you. Right? And if you go back to anything about the best experience you've ever had when you called up for support or get a question answered. He was like it was someone who understood you who's friendly, polite, empathetic, funny. And they knew exactly what they were doing, right? And they solve it for you. So the way I think about that, is that actually the future of the context. Dinner is a combination of human and machine, and the human delivers the heart, and the machine delivers the master. >> And I just noticed your I'm looking at Twitter, right? And you just tweeted this forty minutes to go the future of Contact Center. Nice. A combination of human and machine human delivers heart. The machines lose mastery. I think this is so important because unpacking that words like trust come out True relationship. So you asked about my experiences is when I've gotten what I needed, You know, all ledger, the outcome I wanted. Plus I felt good about right. I trusted it. I trusted the truth. It was. And he's seeing that in media today with fake news. You're seeing it with Digital has kind of almost created, anonymous, non trustworthy its data. There's been no real human. Yeah, packaging. So I think you're I'm hearing you You're on the side of humans and machines, not just machines being the silver bullet. >> Absolutely, absolutely. And again, it goes back to sort of the history of the contact centre has been this desire to, like, just make it cheaper, right? But as the world is changing, and as customer experience is more important than ever before and is now, technology is enabling us to allow agents and human beings to be more effective through this. The symbiotic relationship that we're going to form with each other, like we can actually deliver amazing customer experiences. And that's what really matters. And that idea of trust I want to come back to that word that's like super Central to this entire thing. You know, you have that as a user, you have to trust the brand you have to trust the information you're getting from the agent. You have to trust the product that you're calling them talking about, and that's central to everything that we need to do. In fact, it's a It's a fundamental aspect of our entire business. In fact, if you again think about it for a moment here, we're going to customers who are looking to buy a context, and we're saying, Trust us, we're going to put it in the cloud, We're going to run it, We're going to operate it for you and we're going to deliver a great, highly reliable experience that takes trust to sew one of things that back to your early early question. Why did come two, five, nine? One of the things it has done is build this amazing trust with its customers to its huge, amazing reliability. Up time, a great human process of how we go in work with our customers. It's about building trust in every single >> way. So I want to put in the spot because I know you've seen many ways of innovation. You've seen a lot of different times, but now it's more accelerated. Got cloud computing at a much more accelerated innovation cycle. So as users expect interact with certain kind of environment. Roman talked about this in his interview. CEO Control. So you just want to be served on the channels that they want to be served in. So having a system that they have to go to to get support, They wanted where they are. And so how is the future of the customer interaction? Whether it's support our engagement is going to take place in context to nonlinear discovery, progression, meaning or digging a service themselves in the organic digital space. I honestly want to go to a site per se. How do you see the future evolving around this notion of organic discovery? Talking to their friends, finding things out? Does that impact how Five9 sees the future? >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think it gets back to sort of an old idea of Omni channel. I mean, this is something that the context people been talking about for, like forever, like the last ten years, right? And and its original meeting was just this idea. Oh, you know, you can talk to us via chat, or you can send us an e mail or you can send us a text or you could call us right and we'll work with you on any of those, like you said. Actually, what's more interesting is as customers and users moved between those things, and it actually switches from reactive to proactive right where we actually treat those channels as well. Depending on what the situation is, we're going to gather information from all these different data sources, and then we're going toe, find the right way to reach out to you and allow you to reach out to us in the most official. >> So you see a real change in user expectation experience with relative rule contact? >> Yeah, I mean, I mean, the one thing that technology is delivered is a change in user expectations on how things work. And if you look at the way we as human beings communicate with each other, it's dramatically different today than it was really just just a few years ago. >> So, Johnny, let's look under the hood now in terms of the customer environment, because certainly I've seen Legacy after Legacy sisters being deployed. It's almost like cyber security kind of matches the same kind of trend that in your world, which is throw money at something and build it out. So there's a lot of sprawl of solutions out there and trying to solve these problems. How does the customer deal with that? And they're going forward there on this new wave. They want to be modernized, but they got legacy. They had legacy process, legacy, culture. What's the key technical architecture, How you see them deploying this? What's the steps of the patient and her opinion? >> It will surprise you not one drop when I say it's go to the cloud, all right, and there are real reasons for it and by the way, this is going to be going to be talking about this at Enterprise Connect. So, So tune in Enterprise Connect. I'm going to be talking about this. Um, there's a ton of reasons, five huge ones, actually, about why people need to get to the cloud. And one of them is actually one of the ones we've been talking about here, which is a lot of this. Modernization is rooted in artificial intelligence. It turns out you just cannot do artificial intelligence on promise you cannot. So the traditional gear, which used to be installed and operated by legacy vendors like a VIA, you know, they go in, and Genesis, they go in the install a thing and it works just for one customer at a time. The oly way artificial intelligence works is when it gathers data across multiple customers. So multi tendency and artificial intelligence go hand in hand. And so if you want to take any benefit from the stuff that we've been talking about this conversation, the first step is you gotta take your context int the cloud just to begin building and adding your data on the set and then leverage the technologies and they come out >> So data is the central equation And in all this because good data feed's good machine learning good machine learning feeds Great a. I So data is the heart of this, yes. So data making data in the cloud addressable seems to be a key. Thought Your reaction and what are you guys doing with? >> Absolutely, absolutely. And this is, by the way, another reason why I joined five nine, that I've been speculating here. I said, All right, if Date if ya if the future is about a I miss, I said, That's what I want to do in collaboration. You need data to do that. You actually have to work for a company that has a lot of data. So market leadership matters. And if you go look at the contact center and you go look at all the industry and analyst reports like it made it pretty obvious, like who to go to there is like the leader in cloud Conduct. Sonar with with tons of agents and tons of data is Five9 and ah, and so that's That's why you're so building the data aggregating data. That's one of the first things I'm working on here is how do we increase and utilize the data that we've been gathering for years. >> And and a lot of that we've had this conscious with many customs before about Silas Silas. Kill innovation When it comes to data address ability, your thoughts on that and what customs Khun due to start thinking about breaking down those silent >> exactly so In fact, Silas have been a big part of the history of especially on premise systems. Once in fact, Afghan one silo for inbound contacts and are different for outbound. Different departments, by the way, also had their own different comic centers. And then you had other tools that on the other data, if you don't like a separate tool over there for serum and a different tool over there for WFOR debut Fam and something else for Q M. And all these things were like barely integrated together in the cloud that becomes much more natural. Spring these technologies together and the data can begin to flow from the systems in and out of each other. And that means that we have a much greater access to data and correlated data across these different things that allows us to automate all over the place. So it's this positive reinforcement sile cycle that you only get one year when you've gone to the club. >> The question I want to ask you, it's more customers on pretend I'm a customer for second. I won't ask you, Jonathan, what's the core innovation for me to think about and bring to my organization? If I want to go down the modern monitors you. How do you answer that question? What is the core innovation? Stretch it. I should have Marcy moving through the cloud is one beyond that is itjust cloud. Then what else? What, Juanito? Be preaching internally and organizing my culture >> around. Yeah, great questions. So, I mean, I think the cloud is sort of the enabler of many of these different pieces of innovation. Right? So velocity and speed is one of them. And then setting up and adjusting these things used to be super super hard. Ah, you wanted to add agents seats? Oh, my gosh, enough to go binding hardware and racket stack boxes and whatever. So even simple things like reactive nous, right? That's something that's important to talk about is that many of our customers and our businesses are highly seasonal. Right? We've seen like someone showed me a graph. This was like, Oh, my gosh, it was It was a company that was doing ah, telethon. And they said, Here's how many agents they have over this year. It was like two agents, and then it shut up. It's like five hundred agents of phones. Two days exactly. Drop back down. And I'm like, if you think about a business like that, you could never even do that. And so the so cloud is nice, but the way you talk about it, and as an I t buyer of these technologies, you talk your business owners about reacted nous speed, velocity, right? That's what matters to a business and then customer experience. >> You're one of the things that just to kind of end of second, I want to get your thoughts on. I'm gonna bring kind of industry trend. That's I think, might be a way to kind of talk about some of these core problems on data. Most mainstream people look at Facebook and saying, Well, what a debacle. They used my data. These men against me. I'm not in control of my data. You're seeing that weaponization people saying elections were rigged. So weaponizing data for bad is this content, and this context ends right? An infrastructure that's right, >> that's right. >> But there's also the other side, which is, you actually make it for good. So you started thinking about this people starting to realize Wow, I should be thinking about my data and the infrastructure that I have to create a better outcome. That's right, Your thoughts on that as people start to think about II in terms of the business context, right? How did they get to that moment where they can saying, I don't want anyone weaponizing did against me. I want to use it for good. How did the head of the company comes back to >> trust, by the way, right? Is that you know, on and to some degree that's an uphill battle due to some of these debacles that you just talked about. But Contact Center is a different beast of the whole thing. And interestingly, it's an area where there's already been an assumption by users that when they interact with the contact center, that data is sort of used to improve the experience. I mean, every contacts and the first thing I say, by the way, this call may be recorded for training. Um, honoring purses, Captain, that they are right. It's it's already opt in. There's an assumption that that's exactly how that is being used. So it's This is another reason. By the way, what's a contact center is? It was the tip of the spear because it was a place where there was already permission, where the data is exactly the kind of stuff that had already been subject to analysis and Attock customer expectation that that's actually what was happening. The expectation was there they building action, that data what was missing. So now we're filling in the ability to action on that All that data with artificial intelligence >> and final question. What's your vision going forward? A CTO and aye, aye. What's the vision of Five9? What do what do you see? The twenty miles stair for Five9 within consciousness. We just talked about >> it. So? So it's It's about revolution. I'll be honest. Right on. I tell people like, I'm not like an incremental, steady Eddie CTo like I do things because I want to make big changes. And I believe that the context and R is on the cusp of a massive change. And my boss, Rohan said this and this has been actually central to how I'm thinking about this. The Contact Center in the next five years will be totally different than the twenty five years before that. It's a technologist. I say. Wow, five years like that's not very long in terms of softer development. That's what we were going pretty much rewrite our entire stack over the next five years. And show. What should that start to look like? So for me, it's about how do we completely reimagine every single aspect of the context center to revolutionize the experience by merging together, human and machine and totally new >> and the innovation strategies cloud in a cloud and and and data great job and great to have you on pleasure. Great, great conversation. Quick plug for you guys. Going to be a enterprise, connect to Cuba. Lbi. They're covering the event as well. What you going to talk about that? What? Some of the interactions? What will be the hallway conversations? What's your objective? What's your focus >> exactly? So so I'm going to be having my own session. We're going to be talking about the five reasons that you may not think about to goto context on the cloud. I've hinted already. A James of them. I think we're too well. That's you can you know, A. I is clearly central and I'm going to start to talk about the other four. >> Great, great conversation. A lot of change. Massive change happening. Great innovation Stretch. Great mission here at Five9. Great, great mission around. Changing and reimagine. More change the next five years in the past twenty five years. Again cloud computing eyes doing it will be winners. Will be losers will be following it here on the Cube. Jonathan Rosenberg, CTO ahead of AI at Five9. I'm John Furrier with the Cube. Thanks for watching.

(orchestral music) >> Hello there and welcome to this special CUBEConversation. I'm John Furrier, here in theCUBE Studios, in Palo Alto, California. I'm here with special guest, Shawn Douglass, who's the Founder and CEO of Amberdata, Amberdata.io. It's a hot blockchain-based analytics startup kind of taking a different approach. I obviously would like to highlight some of the startups that are doing pretty amazing things. Shawn welcome to this CUBEConversation >> Great, thank you very much for having me here. >> So you have an enterprise background. You're entrepreneur, technical, been a CTO at EMC. You've helped EMC run their venture capital firms over the years. Helped them build it up from scratch. Done a variety of startups. Kind of cloud, kind of like large-scale. Now doing the blockchain startup. That's, I find super interesting. I think you might have more there than you think, but that's my opinion seeing the demo. Folks watching Amberdata.io is the site. Let's talk about that, I mean obviously blockchain, we've been covering pretty heavily recently with theCUBE. We've been covering Bitcoin since 2010 on our blog SiliconANGLE.com But you're seeing a renaissance in software development, with cloud computing, but now you start to see a new wave coming. We've been documenting. We've been calling it, you know, the future of money, the future of work, the future of infrastructure, because what blockchain and decentralized applications are doing is changing the stack a bit. And you've been in, in many, involved in those waves, so you're at the heart of it. So I got to ask you, you know, as an entrepreneur, before we get into what your company does, I want to just get your take on, you know, I mean, you kind of look at this market and say, it's a wide-open space. >> Right. >> As an entrepreneur who's doing a start-up, what's it like? What's your view? And how do you see the marketplace evolving? >> Yeah, that's a great question, there's a lot there. Let me try to unpack that the best that I can. So having gone between startup to big company to investor, helped buy, build, sell, in companies and operating for as long as I have in Silicon Valley. I think, as you said, technology and innovation happen in waves. And I think that waves are mini-revolutions, if you will. And I think that revolutions are about addressing a fundamental human need. If we look at, look to history, to see where the future is going. If you look at the Industrial Revolution, it was about automation and supply, I mean, uh production chains, and to be able to produce things at scale. If you look at the Information Age it was about the ability to communicate, and the servers and the networks and the web 2.0 companies that arose out of that, was around communication. That was another major wave. If you look at what's happening with AI right now, and self-driving cars, that's about the ability, for the need to think, right? And you're starting to see algorithms and machine learning applied to Google self-driving cars, and you know, just about every facet of our life AI is touching, you're using Siri at home, whatever you're using. I think what we're seeing with blockchain is that next wave. It's that next revolution, and that revolution I believe is about trust, and about decentralization. So, coming out of web 2.0 we saw participatory and non-participatory consolidations, in creation of juggernauts of technology. The Facebooks of the world, the Amazons of the world. On the other side, the Equifaxes of the world, where you didn't opt-in, in exchange for being the product, to use their platform, they just got your data. We've seen violation of that trust in data breaches, you know, at every major player, you know. Equifax being the bad guy in this case, where they've lost every single citizen in the United States data, and we never benefited from that, but we carry the liability forward. And what we're seeing with blockchain is the ability for people to leverage decentralized platforms and smart contract platforms, specifically, as mechanisms to easily deploy with zero barrier to entry. These, you know, these smart contract vending machines, if you will, into a world where people are taking back trust. So I, that's what we see, and we see that opportunity across both the enterprise space, 'cause we're hard core enterprise people, that we're building member data, but we're also seeing new enterprises being created on chain and that list is really long. So it's pretty, it's definitely a big wave. >> Well, the one, blockchain's an infrastructure, I think people getting all crazy over that, which I think it's legit. And there's some people out there saying, "Oh, blockchain's not legit." They don't really know what they're talking about in my opinion, and that's just, and a lot of people are confused. So there's a lot of people who are, you know, obviously don't see it, some people do. But I think the phenomenon that's interesting is, you know, taking a tech stack approach is, if you look at the decentralized application market, >> Shawn: Right. >> Where Ethereum for instance has got a lot of, the most developers. And they're working fast on some technical challenges they had but they're making progress. The D applications, the distributed, I mean the decentralized applications, that's like an application server on the blockchain. >> Yeah, exactly. >> So what that happens, is the things are happening, so you almost think of it, and you and I were talking about this, is that, you know, the vending machine of the future or the transaction service layer is that decentralized smart contract. >> Absolutely. >> 'Cause that's where the value is going to be captured. >> Shawn: Absolutely. >> And created and captured. >> Let me unpack that, because that's spot-on, I 100% agree with what you're saying there. Is that, what is a blockchain? A blockchain is effectively a decentralized database and network put together. What I think is interesting, is smart contract platforms that put a virtual machine on top of that. Like Ethereum has the EVM. Where it's your application server. And what are smart contracts? Smart contracts, like you said, are vending machines. They're a vending machine that has the appropriate level of security, the appropriate level of service, and allows you to have an autonomous transaction with that. When you walk up to a Pepsi machine, you put in a dollar, you expect to get back a Pepsi, it works, you go away, you don't think anything about it. What blockchain is allowing anybody to do, is to publish a smart contract on chain and monetize that at the most elemental level. It's analogous to, if Amazon allowed you to deploy a lambda function and monetize that. It's analogous to, if E-Business Suite allowed you to monetize your plugins from an Oracle world. It's analogous to if SAP with, when Shai Agassi was still there doing composable applications, allowed you to, as a vendor, anybody publish into that SAP ecosystem and monetize that. This is a massive, massive transformation and it reduces barriers to entries for people to come in and compete with juggernauts like an Amazon or an Oracle because at the barrier to entry is, they're publishing into a globally available, decentralized, platform, right. >> And the thing too that's interesting, and just to tie that together with what's happening in the cloud world, is if you look at like Kubernetes containers, and micro-services, the ability to be efficient with micro-services, allows for that IT infrastructure to completely be re-platformized. >> Exactly. >> So what you're getting at, is with the smart contracts and the atomic nature of the transaction, you can be laser-focused and scale transactions, >> Right. >> and be efficient, so the efficiency is a big part of this. >> It is, there's efficiency, and there is the ability to decompose things, and that's been a trend, for as long as I've been in technology right. It's, first it was, you know, cloud services, then it was SOA, then it was cloud, and now it's serverless, it's blockchain, it's just on that spectrum. There's not a lot new here actually, right. It's a continuum of technology, and I think all of these waves are enabled by different revolutionary forces. >> Operational change and software drives it obviously And you got the characteristics of blockchain, immutability et cetera, et cetera and DApps is just a new way to kind of write the software for that. They create those vending machines or transactional services So I got to ask you, so with what you guys are doing, I want to tie that together, because one of the things we've been reporting on theCUBE is, the piece of action that's most hyped up is, ICOs. These blockchain apps that are changing, and the old guard and disrupting incumbents. But there's not a lot of tooling around it, so, you know, if you think about like trading platforms, >> Right. 24/7 traders have access to stuff. Now the world's a 24/7, 365 global. There's not a lot of tooling, not a lot stuff. So this instant industry's created. This new wave is coming. You're building some tooling, so I want to get your thoughts on the support needed to do this. >> Shawn: Right. >> Say I put my business on the blockchain >> Shawn: Right. >> And with, use developers to do decentralized applications. >> Yeah, so, >> I need tools. >> Aboslutely, that's exactly, so, you know, got a little gray hair here, and I grew up building internet software at scale, right. Whenever you run anything in production, you always have your network operations center. You have your AppD, you have your Splunks, you have your New Relics, you have all of this. You've instrumented your infrastructure. You've instrumented your application transactions. You've instrumented search for operational log data. You need to be able to triage a security instance. You need to be able to respond to performance or production issues. You need to be able to communicate with your customers. None of this existed when I looked at the blockchain space, and I'm like I don't get it. This is a massive opportunity, because if you look at the enterprise space, 'cause public right now, sure, it's very interesting. ICOs are the killer use case. There's 300 million dollars per hour traversing in the public at their IMNetwork, 50% of those are going to smart contracts. A lot of that is actual transactional trading volume. But step back from the hype for a second, and you look at IBM, you look at VMware, you look at Cisco, you look at Microsoft, you look at, you know, all these guys. JP Morgan with Quorum. You look at, they all have major bets that are starting to evolve around taking things and removing intermediaries, just like public chain, but they're doing it with things like swaps, credit default swaps, interest swaps, currency swaps. They're talking about removing escrow services, they're talking about, >> So pre-existing companies are going to take the efficiency side of this and drive it. >> It's going to, it is a massive transformation right, and especially when they're working with their trading partners, there's almost a, what, a 2006 VMware data center consolidation play. Remember when the data centers were full of servers, and then all of a sudden, you know, they started pulling back the number of servers and turning off the A/C because they were able to take entire data center floors and consolidate them inside of VMs where they had three and four virtual machines in a server. And I think that you're going to get those same types of efficiencies over time once they get to pass some scaling issues around blockchain where you don't have to have seven copies of your data across your front office, your back office, across your trading partner. You can have one single source of truth and operate in an open transparent world where you can reduce some of those inefficiencies. And then there's a whole business transformation play that, you know, there's there's just, I think it's a, >> It's a perfect storm. You have a consolidation piece, which is more efficient operationally, and then you got the top-line revenue opportunity with disrupting kind of industries with new transactional models, business models and token economics. So we've talked a lot about it in theCUBE. I want to talk to you about your company, Amberdata. So you guys are trying to make sense of what's happening because if you're going to put a business on the blockchain, >> You need this. >> and use decentralized applications as a transactional application server if you will, for lack of a better description. You got to know what's going on, and there's gas involved, you got to pay the mining fees, so where there's costs, you need visibility. >> Right. So the old school, the old model was, you'd have KPIs, set some alerts, dashboarding, you're doing that right? >> That's what we've done. >> So take a minute to explain what Amberdata's doing. Did you do a round of funding? What's going on with the company? You got the product up there Amberdata.io >> Right, yeah, so let me unpack, there's a lot there. So uh, we started the company end of August. We raised a round of funding with traditional enterprise venture capital firm Hummer Winblad. Lars Leckie, amazing investor, really understands enterprise software and how to enable companies to grow. Amazing partner to work with. We've been heads down building a product. About 45 days ago we launched our platform live, and what we have today, is we have instrumentation for blockchain infrastructure, decentralized applications, transactions, and an ontology-based search, that gives a clean user experience where you can be search-driven to drill into a smart contract, a transaction, into a block, and you know, if you're building on top of chain, I mean, we're a classic picks and shovels play, It's pure, it's enterprise software, we built this for enterprises. Today our platform supports public Ethereum, but it was really to demonstrate, if we can do this for the entire Ethereum network and we can do this for its scale, of course we can do this for any enterprise. And today we support public Ethereum and Quorum, which is private Ethereum, it's a JPMorgan project, that I think is the one of the leaders in private blockchain, and that's a project that's being supported by the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance. We will also in our working with IBM, I was just on the Hyperledger technical steering committee this morning, I participate in that. So, we will support Hyperledger in the future, we will support multiple other public and private chains so the private ecosystem today is, you know, Enterprise Ethereum à la Quorum. It is Hyperledger. It is Corda. On the public side, it is Ethereum, it is Stellar, it is, you know, things like Quantum that are emerging, Neo, or emerging. >> So is your business model SaaS? Yes, it's a SaaS model and today we support public chain as a demonstration of it, but we're also working on allowing people to, just like a data dog, or what have you, where we have a connector, we can pull your data in, and it's private, it's only visible for you, for your private blockchain. Or we could deploy into their private cloud or into (talking over each other) >> John: So is Amberdata.io like a demo site, or is that more of, >> It's a demonstration of the ability to instrument blockchain infrastructure, applications, transactions, with search, the ability to set alerts on every single panel, which are your KPIs. If you're going to run a business, you either have explicit or implicit service level agreements, and you need to be able to instrument those service level agreements with KPIs, and those KPIs you need to be able to set alerts and events, receive emails, you know, all of those. >> I love the demo, the demo, I think the demo will be a great freemium model, because it showed, just my notes here, smart contracts on the decentralized application, top 50 sorted transaction volume, token velocity change in price, because you know gas you're still paying the gas to get the transaction written. I mean this is kind of like spot pricing for Amazon almost. You need to understand what am I paying for, if there's an SLA involved in a smart contract? >> Absolutely. >> You got to know the policy involved right? So, again, this is like old-school, like enterprise thinking, >> Shawn: Right. >> The world is now a global enterprise if you think about it. >> Shawn: Yeah, you absolutely need transparency into your operating costs. Those are your transactions costs of either, for your customers to consume your service or for you to provide your service. And, prior to this, there was very little transparency. It's ironic, is that, the most trustless, transparent platform, had no real view into it. And that's what we've built. We've built transparency and are enabling you to trust the trustless platform, to get transparency into your DApp KPIs, and so for example, if you're building, like you look at like EtherDelta's, EtherDelta's is one of the non-custodial smart contract based exchanges. They're doing 70 million dollars a month in transaction value. I don't know what they did before. We've talked with people that are consumers of that. We've talked to people on pretty much all of the decentralized exchange platforms. But the ability to understand, what are the number of transactions per hour, per second, per minute, that are hitting my smart contracts? What are the token transfers, if I've tokenized my unit economics. Who are the top 10 callers to my contract? Is my smart contract calling other contracts? What are my pending transactions? What is my book of trades? What is market depth of my gas prices? What, I need to be able to search if I've got failure. Show me transactions between this date, that date, to, from, where, that is all mission-critical stuff that you need if you're going to operate any business. >> So a lot of operational data and that's phenomenal, but are you worried that people aren't going to adopt? Blockchain I mean. >> I'm not worried about that at all. I actually think that there's an entire, when we started this, we were focused on enterprises exclusively, and we saw what we were doing on public Ethereum as a marketing ploy. We're like "Hey we'll go instrument "the whole public Ethereum Network". I'm a big data guy, we've built high-throughput, four terabytes a day of social graph ingestion platforms. We're like, public Ethereum, you know, not that transactionally intensive. We're going to do this for the world. Now, after building the platform and seeing 300 million dollars an hour, with 50% of those transactions going to smart contracts, we're seeing a new Enterprise emerge. You can look at companies like, you know, Sia, Storj coin, IPFS. >> So can actually see the activity (slurred) it's encrypted, but you can look at the metadata and get the patterns. I mean you're essentially looking at the transactional volume, almost like a stock exchange. We can, we have full transparency into every transaction, that's happening on chain, and we can see, like the other day, I did a tweet on, there was a token that's traded, I don't know, we're not interested in the trading side but it's the use case that has the most buzz, and we have transparency, so we see it, we're like, "Hey, this smart contract went "from two thousand transactions, to 40 thousand "transactions. What is going on?" Right, and we actually saw that. >> You can see the pump-and-dump scams too. >> Oh you can totally see that. In providing transparency, is now, it's becoming easy for anybody to search for anything. >> Well that's a great free service, and I appreciate you, and I've been playing with that over the weekend, I love it, I'm like, "Hmm, I might get some trades on this thing." >> Thank you. Check it out. We'd love feedback from anybody that's seeing this, Amberdata.io and I can be reached at Shawn@Amberdata.io >> So, I mean obviously funding you must have a ton of VCs throwing money at you, is that the case? Are you thinking about an ICO? What's the thoughts on the capital expansion? Yes obviously got a great, hot startup here, so what's the funding strategy? >> We've been heads down on building things, and we're obviously getting inbound, but you know, we're well funded, we're in as, I think we're in a position of strength. What we're focused on is taking the mountain, and defining and being the category leader. I think right now, we have defined it. >> There's no one else doing it. >> Yeah, exactly. >> So you're like the solo, you're the only one doing it. >> So, we are going to define the space for operational monitoring analytics for public and private blockchain, and be that single pane of glass that allows enterprises to build on or around, you know, decentralized smart contract platforms, or, you know, private smart contract platforms. And we're going to take that hill, and we're going to stay out in front. So right now, we're heads down. We'll eventually, (talking over each other) >> Can I get an API to the data set? Can you just give me an API? Like a fire hose opportunity there? >> So we are enabling this as a platform, to drive network effects, and we're working with several exchanges, we're working, you know, some of non-custodial exchanges. We've got a lot of inbound interest from people more on the trading side. We're evaluating whether we do that, and we want people to be able to build on top of our platform, other analytics tools, you know, connect to exchanges, connect what have you, right and create that marketplace, create those APIs, inroads, and then allow people to drive that. And on the ICO front, we're really not focused on that. We're enterprise software. >> Well theCUBE team would love to have an API and program with it for theCUBEInsights, we'd love to look at that. >> That would be great right. >> That's something we can work together and collaborate on that. I got to ask you about the data 'cause this is fascinating, coming from the search background that I come from, it's almost like the Google crawler. You went out, >> It's a Google for blockchain. >> Is it true that you guys crawled all the Genesis nodes on Ethereum, so you got into the Genesis nodes? >> Shawn: That's correct. >> So from the Genesis nodes to today, you've essentially gotten all those instrumented, >> Shawn: Right >> And have real time data coming in. >> Yes, that is correct. So as far as I know, we're the only people that have done this. It's computationally intensive and from the data structure perspective pretty difficult to do. But what we've done is, and it has to do with the data structures in the way Ethereum works whether that be public or private, is that there's an account-based blockchain that has transactions, but then the smart contracts and transfers of tokens happen in messages. So what we've done is, we have the ability to, or we have done and we have the ability to do in perpetuity moving forward, we instrument every transaction, every internal transaction, every token transfer, with time series data, indexed, searchable, we also have graph as well as relational views into the data, to be able to give the transparency, enable trust, enable you to triage an issue. Like, you know, I think about having worked at, you know, other enterprises in the past. Where you have a, you know, a security incident, that you need to respond to. We're currently under attack we need to find out who, what are they doing, what have they done, what is our exposure, how do we contain that, how do we, you know, deal with that? Without what we have, you can't do that. You got to like right Python scripts, and do API (talking over each other) >> You're chasing a ghost basically, and by the time you get it, it's over. >> Right, and then for enterprises, they've got hard core regulatory compliance considerations that you need to deal with. Ad-hoc queries from an auditor, you need to be able to show "Hey, I've got confidentiality, I have availability, "I have integrity" >> Well, even these smart contracts are still software. They, and you know, we've interviewed Hartej Sawhney, who's got a company that's doing just that auditing, >> He's killing it right. >> Auditing, the smart contracts because someone's going to write the code, and the code's back vulnerabilities. >> Absolutely. >> So there's a compliance aspect coming, quickly. >> Yes, yes absolutely. Yeah, I mean, so there's, it's an amazing space. There's a tremendous amount going on. It's moving super fast. >> Picks and shovels for the new miners, literally miners. Shawn, great to have you on. Congratulations >> Thank you. >> On your new startup. I think you've got a great product. I've been playing with the data, I love it. I think it's fascinating. If you could summarize the data that you've learned from the tool that you've built and platformed, what's the summary? What if you had to kind of tease it out, what's actually happening right now in the market, on the Ethereum network, with the apps and blockchain? >> Right, so, there is, so at the end of the day, Ethereum is a smart contract platform, and it pans out, that 50% of the transactions are actually going to smart contracts, which is a great validation right. Two: the actual value being transferred and interacting with smart contracts is 300 million dollars an hour. That is, it's, on an enterprise software perspective, it's not huge, but it's definitely a validation. >> It's legit. >> It's legit. The number of smart contracts that have been created in the last three months, is 400%. It is just going through the roof. Some of this, there's a lot of junk, but there's a lot of stuff that are people are building new enterprises, and on the enterprise side, we're seeing real business cases going into production, working with a few large customers now, on instrumenting real, you know, removing, you know, instrumenting real, over-the-counter type use cases. It's very, very interesting times. >> Well, you know my rants. I've been ranting about some of these bankers that have come from an old-school bank, and they're young kids too, so they're not, they're younger than me but they're trying to valuation mechanisms around, you know, companies and tokens, and they're using like discounted cash flow. Now I mean I get how they could go there, 'cause they learn that in school. >> Shawn: Right. But the reality is there's a new school going on. The school's in session. If you know the data, you have very interesting valuation variables that could be constructed on these new models that need to be looked at. I mean, how do you value a company? Certainly velocity. >> Shawn: Yeah, volume. >> Who's actually doing the transactions? Are they real smart contracts? So there's a lot of gamification and, I won't say scams, but I would say the investors want the transparency too. >> Yeah, I think it's amazing is that, we have that transparency, we provide that transparency as free service to the community right now and the ability to have transparency into transaction volume for smart contracts, token velocity, number of unique callers, market capitalization, the change in price, this gives you the ability to value that. That's something that, you know, we've thought about extensively is, maybe we should just provide valuation as a service, on just these assets that are publicly available? Yeah, I don't know. >> You had a lot of opportunities, so great job. Congratulations, good work. You guys have really done the work on this project, love it. And again, it validates the reality of the smart contracts, the application side of the business changing. Shawn Douglass here, inside theCUBE for CUBEConversation here at Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (orchestral music)

hey welcome back everybody Jeff Rick here or the cube conversation and the SiliconANGLE cubes Palo Alto studio a little bit of a break and the crazy conference season so here to kind of fix the gear and take things up and sit down and in the context of a conversation outside of a show to really get the update and we're really excited to be joined here by two guests who are announcing a pretty exciting deal that's happening today is who you shoot a CTO of Hitachi Data scissors welcome again to you and jack mazzoni vice president storage networking at brocade welcome thank you so let's just jump right into it tell everybody what happened today and why this is big news yeah sure I'm gonna start it and so what we're announcing today is broke aids developed its its next-gen called gen-6 fibre channel switches and it's a whole portfolio and we're very excited that hitachi who resells the OEM are our product to to their customer base is launching on the state as well so we're very excited about that and it's big news right and so you'll be able to buy this product today from hitachi for all the great customers that we have out there today and that's the big announcement excellent and why is this important to your customers well this is just the next evolution in fibre channel I mean 32 gigabit per second don't you know we were just on 16 now not long ago and so it's going to open up a lot of bandwidth open up you know more workload being processed provide new opportunities for new applications as well so it's funny a lot a lot of talk on you know already it in the end of Moore's law we're going to be able to squeak out more compute power outage micro processors and stuff but it sounds like you guys are squeezing out a lot more performance on the network yeah I know absolutely and one thing that you know Hugh mentioned earlier which I thought was great is you know when you get performance like this in the network and you just get performance in general enables consolidation enables efficiencies right and when flash is able to go and allow you to do let's say the same or more amount of workloads with less course that's a good thing right and and the networks then got to be able to handle that and it's that kind of efficiencies that when we can jointly bring to our customers that allows them to then spend the time and think about how they transform their IT operations right into this digital transformation era into into enabling IT to be the strategic foundation to go drive the enterprise right and I know sometimes it's hard to to make that connection all the way from Genesis fibre channel to that that's how that connection goes so so it's it's been a proven winner to drive performance it saves money it saves it enables innovation and I think the commitment that brocade and Hitachi have had to to quality to the highest levels of reliability and customer service over the years has really been a cornerstone of our success it's been a great partnership I know our CEO likes to say we partner better than anybody in the industry and that's absolutely true and Hitachi has just been one of those fantastic partners for us for over a decade now so let's unpack that a little bit why is partnership so important and not only just specifically between the two companies here but you know we go to a ton of shows and every show now even if it's a specific vendor like the pentaho show is a whole ecosystem right nobody can do it alone anymore and there's a really kind of renewed focus around the ecosystem and and everyone kind of coming together at the end of the day provide solutions to customers that are going to solve problems so it's a very important piece of it yeah and I think you've a great example that is if it really is a requirement if you think about private cloud infrastructures and converge infrastructures you're bringing so many elements together to deliver a total solution and Hitachi UCP is a great example where you have you know great technologies from hitachi in there we've been able to participate some of our fibre channel as well as our IP storage switches we were able to participate with that and so really I think if you want to participate in a cloud type of architecture whether it's public private hybrid you're going to have to partner you're going to have to particles you may not have all the technologies you may not have all the specialties and customers could require that on at some some levels that's kind of my take on it yes I mean you know we could have tried to develop our own fibre channel switches but you know that would have taken a lot more effort and time and distraction from what our core competencies are you know I mean brocade has a conference season networking both IP and fibre channel networking so it doesn't make any sense for us to try to do that which is better to partner with that right so and the future is going to be all about partnering and and more toward open source to right and the other thing that we find over and over again is really the changing expectations of the way software performs and we hear it all the time you know that why doesn't the software at my work perform like the software on my phone and why isn't it faster and why isn't it more integrated with other sources of information so the demand for better faster stronger applications is only going to increase right nobody wants less data though he wants less performance buddy wats less latency and especially in kind of an API world where all these applications are now not just siloed stacks of applications but they're pulling data from all sorts of places the speed and latency really becomes critical yeah I know I absolutely right and that's why I think this announcement and the construct of the you know the all-flash data center and all the advancements happening with flash is so important it's that linkage and then what the applications can do once they take advantage that you know I always tell people it's like remember the first time your laptop went to a all flash disk remember that experience like via the old spinning disk you're booting up well go to windows right and then you with all flash it was like that emotional experience or how great it was right you take that level at an enterprise level right where you have thousands and thousands of thousands of disks running thousands of applications and now you bring in flash and then around the corner you ring in nvme it's amazing to think about what's going to be coming down the future right and we're very excited about our position it really being it that the the central point of if you will where all this information flow has to go through the network and you know whether it's fibre channel whether it's IP you know we're going to keep to our core values which is you know the highest levels of qualities resiliency bringing in the analytics and partner partner with the top quality companies in the world such as itachi and what was interesting about this release is you added a lot more than a tease a lot more manageability lot more reporting a lot more visibility you know one of the big themes obviously in big data is to move from you know reactive to predictive too prescriptive right and so to have the management layer to have kind of the extra amount of information that you can take advantage of because you've got excess capacity and the pipes if you will and better connectivity to the infrastructure enables a whole different layer of management is which is if you've talked about you and prior interviews you people have to manage a lot more right they're not managing individual boxes anymore now whole different scale man need to be able to automate that those management tools helps us to automate that the infrastructure management also the security part is very important you know the security that brocade brings them into their right into the switch itself right and the security is an interesting point right because that's again a consistent theme everywhere we go it's the old moat just doesn't work anymore the mode and the castle walls now you really have to have security baked in all over the place and the data layer the networking layer all over the place it was the interesting thing is if you think about fiber channel all right let's just offer five channels of technology it is fundamentally right more secure than Ethernet oh we love you know really a great IP portfolio and everything but if you think about Ethernet or excuse me fibre channel when you plug in it it's off by default well first it's a separate network all together right so that's that's one layer secure but it's an off by default meaning that just get you plug in doesn't mean you have access to anything you know you got to go through one man here go there's only going to go through some other stuff but some people say its complexity but but you're at least now actively saying how are the communication is going to happen thin within the this network or either that's really the opposite right because the benefit ethering you plug it in and hey everybody's connected right that's what you want but but when it comes to enterprise let's say storage applications that needs a really but is that the behavior you want that anything that just plugs into it all of a sudden now can connect and and that's one thing that gets kind of lost sometimes than the discussions and the monitor data centers and here I'm really glad that you brought it up and you dropped out of to Jeff it's it's we realize that we're adding more things into it right we're adding more capabilities for in-flight encryption you mentioned forward error correction so the other capabilities were built in it so we take security very seriously and and inherently I think that's another reason that the viability of fibre channel has remained for as long as it has been yeah and it just own it one more time you know kind of what are some of the specific benefits that came out of you two working together for this launch how are you really kind of taking advantage of each other's strengths to really provide a better solution today that people can go out and get well one of the things is they offer backward compelled compatibility we're with two generations right right and that enables us we have a lot of legacy things that we've got to bring forward they don't just rip everything out and put in all these stuff turn the data center off for the weekend is my bonus so you know it gives us that easy transition migration into these higher higher technology levels big one yeah a big one yeah and I think when when the in the porn part two is when we deliver our systems to itachi they test it with their latest and greatest storage they do this full you know systems total solution test so when a customer that brings it into the environment it's it's been fully tested completely NM by brocade and hitachi and then to Hugh's point it's it also then works its backward compatible with everything in the environment nothing's going to you know that nothing will ever break but you know so much time and effort is put into making sure everything runs to seamless as possible because again you have to think about the environments that we're in all right those from mission-critical big environments they got to solve some serious problems they're not up for science projects they're not for risk right yes they have to advance the technology but it's got it done be done in a way that a mitigator essence done a responsible way and that's where I think when you bring their storage and our network together as well as their servers right we have our technology part of their server solutions as well you get some very compelling solutions all right well congratulations to both of you and also to the team's I'm sure there was a lot of work that went up into this day and it's always a relief to get here so thanks for stopping by and sharing the story thank you absolutely right with you and Jack I'm chef Rick you're watching the Q's the cube conversation from Palo Alto thanks for watching we'll see you next time

Zay California in the heart of Silicon Valley. It's the cube covering Hadoop summit 2016 brought to you by Hortonworks. Here's your host, John furrier. >>Okay, we'll come back here and we are here live in Silicon Valley for the cube. This is our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the cylinders. Of course. We're here at the big data event. Hadoop summit 2016 have a special guest celebrity now, author of the bestselling book magical at Virginia Heffernan magic and loss rising on the bestseller lists. Welcome to the cube. Thanks in our show, you are my internet friend and now you're my real life friend. You're my favorite Facebook friend that I just now met for the first time. Great to meet you. We had never met and now we, but we know each other of course intimately through the interwebs. So I've been following your writing your time. Send you do some stuff on medium and then you, you kind of advertise. You're doing this book. I saw you do the Google glasses experiment in. >>It was Brooklyn and it might, it was so into Google glass and I will admit it, I fought for everything. I fell for VR and all its incarnations and um, and the Google last year, it was like that thing that was supposed to put the internet all voice activated, just put the internet always in front of your face. So I started to wear it around in Brooklyn, my prototype. I thought everyone would stop me and say how cool it was. In fact they didn't think it was pull it off new Yorkers. That's how you would, how they really feel. Got a problem with that. Um, your book magic and loss is fantastic and I think it really is good because uh, Dan Lyons wrote, disrupted, loved, which was fantastic. Dan lies big fan of him and his work, but it really, it wasn't a parody of civil rights for Silicon Valley. >>The show that's kinda taken that culture and made it mainstream. I had people call me up and say, Hey, you live in Callow Alto. My God, do you live near the house? Something like it's on Newell, which is one of my cross streets. But the point is tech culture now is kind of in a native, my youngest is 13 and you know, we're in an iPad generation for the youth and we're from the generation where there was no cell phones. And Mike, I remember when pages were the big innovation and internet. But I think, I think when I'm telling you, I think, I know I'm talking to a fellow traveler when I say that there was digital culture before the advent of the worldwide web in the early nineties you know, I, I'm sure you did too. Got electronic games like crazy. I would get any Merlin or Simon or whatever that they, they introduced. >>And then I also dialed into a mainframe in the late seventies and the early eighties to play the computer as we call it. We didn't even call it the internet. And the thing about the culture too was email was very, you know, monochrome screens, but again, clunky but still connected. Right? So we were that generation of, you know, putting that first training wheels on and now exposed to you. So in the book, your premise is, um, there's magical things happening in the internet and art countering the whole trolling. Uh, yeah, the Internet's bad. And we know recently someone asked me, how can the internet be art when Twitter is so angry? What do you think art is? You know, this is an art. Art is emotional. Artists know powerful >>emotions represented in tranquility and this is, you know, what you see on the internet all the time. Of course the aid of course are human. It needs a place to live and call it Twitter. For now it used to be YouTube comments. So, but we are always taking the measure of something we've lost. Um, I get the word loss from lossy compression, you know, the engineering term that, how does, how MP3 takes that big broad music signal and flattens it out. And something about listening to music on MP3, at least for me, made me feel a sense that I was grieving for something. It was missing something from my analog life. On the other hand, more than counterbalanced by the magic that I think we all experienced on the internet. We wouldn't have a friendship if it weren't for social media and all kinds of other things. And strange serendipity happens not to mention artistic expression in the form of photography, film, design of poetry and music, which are the five chapters of the book. >>So the book is fantastic. The convergence and connection of people, concepts, life with the internet digitally is interesting, right? So there's some laws with the MP3. Great example, but have you found post book new examples? I'm sure the internet culture, geese like Mia, like wow, this is so awesome. There's a cultural aspect of it is the digital experience and we see it on dating sites. Obviously you see, you know Snapchat, you know, dating sites like Tinder and other hookups apps and the real estate, everything being Uberized. What's the new things that you've, that's coming out and you must have some >>well this may be controversial, but one thing I see happening is anti digital culture. Partly as an epi phenomenon of side effect of digitization. We have a whole world of people who really want to immerse themselves in things like live music maker culture, things made by hand, vinyl records, vinyl records, which are selling more than ever in the days of the rolling stones. Gimme shelter less they sold less than than they do now. The rolling stones makes $1 billion touring a year. Would we ever have thought that in the, in the, you know, at the Genesis of the iPod when it seemed like, you know, recorded music represented music in that MP3 thing that floated through our, our phones was all we needed. No, we want to look in the faces of the rolling stones, get as close as we can to the way the music is actually made and you know, almost defiantly, and this is how the culture works. This is how youth culture works. Um, reject, create experiences that cannot be digitized. >>This is really more of a counter culture movement on the overt saturation of digital. >>Yes. Yes. You see the first people to scale down from, you know, high powered iPhones, um, when we're youth going to flip phones. You know, it's like the greatest like greatest punk, punk, punk tech. Exactly. It's like, yeah, I'm going to use these instruments, but like if I break a string, who cares on a PDs? The simplest one, right? >>My mom made me use my iPhone. Are we going to, how are we going to have that? it'd >>be like, Oh, look at you with your basic iPhone over there. And I've got my just like hack down, downscale, whatever. And you know what, I don't spend the weekends, don't pick up my phone on the weekends. But you know, there are interesting markets there. And interesting. I mean, for instance, the, you know, the live phenomenon, I know that, you know, there's this new company by one of the founders of Netflix movie pass, which um, for a $30 subscription you've seen movies in the theater as much as you want and the theaters are beautiful. And what instead of Netflix and chill, you know, the, the, the contemporary, you know, standard date, it's dinner and movie. You're out again. You're eating food, which can't be digitized with in-company, which can't be digitized. And then sitting in a theater, you know, a public experience, which is, um, a pretty extraordinary way that the culture and business pushes back on digital. >>Remember I was a comma on my undergraduate days in computer science in the 80s. And before when it was nerdy and eh, and there was a sociology class at Hubba computers and social change. And the big thing was we're going to lose social interactions because of email. And if you think about what you're talking about here is that the face to face presence, commitment of being with somebody right now is a scarce resource. You have an abundance of connections. >>I mean, take the fact what has happened is digital culture has jacked up the value of undigital culture. So for instance, you know, I've, I've met on Facebook, we talk on Facebook messenger, we notice that we're, you know, like kindred spirits in a certain way and we like each other's posts and so forth. Then we have an, a more extensive talk in messenger when we meet in person for the first time. Both of us are East coast people, but we hugged tele because it's like, Oh wow, like you in the flesh. You know it's something exciting. >>Connection virtually. That's right. There's a synchronous connection presence, but we're not really, we haven't met face to face. >>Yeah, there's this great as a great little experiment going on, set group of kids and Silicon Valley have decided they're too addicted to their phones and Facebook. Now I am not recommending for your viewers and listeners that anybody do what these kids sounds good, are ready. Go. Hey, all right, so what they do is take an LSD breakfast. Now I don't take drugs. I think you can do this without the LSD, but they put a little bit of a hallucinogen under their skin in the morning and what they find is they lost interest in the boring interface in their phones because people on the bus suddenly looked so fascinating to them. The human face is an ratable interface. It can't be reproduced anywhere, Steve. You know, Johnny ive can't make it. They can't make it at Google. And that I think is something we will see young markets doing, which is this renewed appreciation for nature and analog for humans and for analog culture. >>That's right. The Navy is going to sextants and compasses. You may have seen training, they're training sailors on those devices because of the fear that GPS might be hacked. So you know, the young kids probably don't even know what a cup is is, well, I bought myself a compass recently because I suddenly was like, you know, we talk a lot about digital technology, but what the heck, this thing you can point toward the poles, right in my hands. You know, I was suddenly like, we are this floating ball with these poles with different magnetic charges. And I think it's time. I appreciate it. >>Okay, so I've got to ask the, um, the, the feedback that you've gotten from the book, um, again, we hear that every Geneva magic and loss, great, great book. Go by. It's fantastic and open your mind up. It's a, it's a thought provoking, but really specific good use cases. I got a think that, you know, when you talk at Google and when you talk to some of the groups that you're talking to, certainly book clubs and other online that there must be like, Oh my God, you hit the cultural nerve. What have you heard from some of these, um, folks from my age 50 down to the 20 something year olds? Have you had any aha moments where you said, Oh my God, I hit a nerve here. >>Did not want to, I mean, I didn't want to write one of those books. That's like the one thing you need to know to get your startup to succeed or whatever. You know, I was at the airport and every single one of them is like, pop the only thing you need to do to save this or whatever. And they, they do take a very short view. Now if you're thinking about, you know, whether if you're thinking about your quarterly return or your, you know, what you're going to do this quarter and when you're going to be profitable or user acquisition, those books are good manuals. But if you're going to buy a hardcover book and you're going to really invest in reading every page, not just the bolded part, not just the put, you know, the two points that you have to know. I really wanted readers and at what I had found on the internet, people like you, we have an interest in a long view. You know what, I need a really long view >>in a prose that's not for listicle or you know, shorts. It's like it's just a thought provoker but somebody can go, Hey, you know, at the beach on the weekend say, Hey wow, this is really cool. What F you know, we went analog for awhile or what if, what's best for my kids to let my kids play multiplayer games more Zika simulate life. That was my, so these are the kinds of questions that the digital parents are asked. >>Yeah. So you know, like let's take the parents question, which is, is, you know, a, surprisingly to me it's a surprisingly pressing question. I am a parent, but my kids' digital habits are not, you know, of obsessive interest to me. Sometimes I think the worry about our kids is a proxy for how we worry about ourselves. You know, it's funny because they're the, you know, the model of the parent saying my kid has attention deficit order, zero order. My kid has attention deficit disorder. The kids over here, the parents here, you know, who has the attention deficit disorder. But in any case I have realized that parents are talking about uh, computers on the internet as though something kids have to have a very ambivalent relationship with and a very wary relationship with. So limit the time, and it sounds a little bit like the abstinence movement around sexuality that like, you know, you only dip in, it's very, you know, they're only date, right, right, right. >>Instead of joining sides with their kids and helping to create a durable, powerful, interesting online avatar, which is what kids want to do. And it's also what we want to do. So like in your Facebook profile, there are all kinds of strategic groups you can make as a creator of that profile. We know it as adults. Like, do you, some people put up pictures of their kids, some people don't vacation pictures. Some people promote the heck out of themselves. Some people don't do so much of that. Um, do you put up a lot of photographs? Do whatever. Those are the decisions we started to make when went on Facebook at kitchen making the two small armor to have on their gaming profile. That's kind of how they want to play, you know, play for you, going to wear feathers. These are important things. Um, but the uh, you know, small questions like talking to your kids and I don't mean a touchy feely conversation, but literally during the write in all lower case commit, you know, Brighton, all lower case, you're cute and you're this and that means a certain thing and you should get it and you're going to write in all caps and you're going to talk about white nationalist ideology. >>Well that also has a set of consequences. What have you learned in terms of the virtual space? Actually augmented reality, virtual reality, these promise to be virtual spaces. What, what is one of them? They always hope to replicate the real world. The mean, yes. Will there be any parallels of the kind of commitment in the moment? Gives you one thing. I say kids that, you know, the subtitle of the book is the internet as art, magic and loss. The internet is art and the kind of art, the internet is, is what I think of as real estate art. It purports to be reality. You know, every technology pick a photography film says or think of even the introduction of a third dimension in painting, you know, in Renaissance painting perspective for ports to represent reality better than it's been represented before. And if you're right in sync with the technology, you're typically fooled by it. >>I mean, this is a seductive representation of reality. You know, people watching us now believe they're seeing us flush of let us talk. You know, they don't think they're seeing pixels that are designed in certain ways and certainly it's your ways. So trying to sort out the incredibly interesting immersive, artful experience of being online that has some dangers and has some emotions to do it from real life is a really important thing. And you know, for us to learn first and then a model for our kids. So I had a horrible day on Twitter one day, eight 2012 213 worst day ever on Twitter. It was a great day for me. I spent the day at the beach, my Twitter avatar took sniper fire for me all day. People called her an idiot separated amount. I separated them out. And anyone who like likes roleplay and games knows that like I'm not a high priestess in Dentons and dragons. >>You know, I'm a much smaller person than that. And in, in, you know, in the case of this Twitter battle, I'm a less embattled person than the one that takes your armor from me on Twitter. That's my art. Your armor. So let's talk about poetry. Twitter, you mentioned poetry, Twitter, 140 characters. I did 40 characters is a lot. If like a lot of internet users your to have pictographic language like Chinese. So 140 characters is a novel by, well not a novel, but it's a short story for, you know, a writer of short form, short form Chinese aphorisms like Confucius. So one of the things I wanted to say is there's nothing about it being short that makes it low culture. You know, there's, I mean it takes a second to take, to take an a sculpture or to take an a painting and yet like the amount of craft that went into that might be much more good tweeting and you're excellent at it, um, is not easy. You know, I know that times I've been like, I tagged the wrong person and then I have to delete it. Like, because the name didn't come up or you know, I get the hashtags wrong and then I'm like, Oh, it would have been better this other way or I don't have a smart enough interject >>it's like playing sports. Twitter's like, you know, firing under the tennis ball baseline rallies with people. I mean, it's like, it's like there's a cultural thing. And this is the thing that I love about your book is you really bring in the metaphors around art and the cultural aspect. Have you had any, have you found that there's one art period that we represent right now? That it could be a comparison? >>I mean, you know, it's always tempting to care everything to the Renaissance. But you know, obviously in the Italian Renaissance there was so much technological innovation and so much, um, and so much, uh, so much artistic innovation. But, um, you know, the other thing are the Dawn of it's might be bigger than that, which it sounds grounds grandiose, but we're talking about something that nearly 6 billion people use and have access to. So we're talking about something bigger than we've ever seen is the Donovan civilization. So like, we pay a lot of attention to the Aqua docks and Rome and, and you know, later pay to touch it to the frescoes. I attend in this book to the frescoes, to the sculpture, to the music, to the art. So instead of talking about frescoes as an art historian, might I talk about Instagram? Yeah. >>And you, and this thing's all weave together cause we can back to the global fabric. If you look at the civilization as you know you're not to use the world is flat kind of metaphor. But that book kind of brings out that notion of okay if you just say a one global fabric, yes you have poetry, you have photography of soiling with a Johnny Susana ad in London. He says, you know, cricket is a sport in England, a bug and a delicacy depending on where in the world you are. >>Love that is that, I wonder if that's the HSBC had time to actually a beautiful HSBC job has done a beautiful campaign. I should find out who did it about perspective. And that is also a wonderful way to think about the internet because you know, I know a lot of people who don't like Twitter, who don't like YouTube comments. I do like them because I am perpetually surprised at what people bring to their interpretation. Insights in the comments can be revealing. You know, you know, you don't wanna get your feelings hurt. Sometimes you don't want that much exposure to the micro flora and fauna of ideas that could be frightening. But you know, when you're up for it, it's a really nice test of your immune system, you know. All right. So what's next for you? Virginia Heffernan magic and last great book. I think I will continue to write the tech criticism, which is just this growing field. I at Sarah Watson had a wonderful piece today in the Columbia journalism review about how we really need to bring all our faculties to treat, treating to tech criticism meant and treating tech with, um, with Karen, with proper off. Um, and the next book is on anti digital culture. Um, I will continue writing journalism and you'll see little previews of that book in the next work. >>Super inspirational. And I think the culture needs this kind of rallying cry because you know, there is art and science and all this beautiful beauty in the internet and it's not about mutually exclusive analog world. You can look and take, can come offline. So it's interesting case study of this, this revolution I think, and I think the counter culture, if you'd go back and Southern John Markoff about this, when he wrote his first book, the Dormouse wander about the counter culture in Silicon Valley is what's your grade book? And counter cultures usually create a another wave of innovation. So the question that comes out of this one is there could, this could be a seminal moment in history. I mean, I think it absolutely is. You know, in some ways, every moment is a great moment if you know what to make of it. But I am just tired of people telling us that we're ruining our brands and that this is the end of innovation and that we're at some low period. >>I think we will look back and think of this as an incredibly fertile time for our imaginations. If we don't lose hope, if we keep our creativity fired and if we commit to this incredible period we're in Virginia. Thanks for spending the time here in the queue. Really appreciate where you're live at. Silicon Valley is the cube with author Virginia Heffernan magic. And loss. Great book. Get it. If you don't have it, hard copies still available, get it. We'll be right back with more live coverage here. This is the cube. I'm John furry right back with more if the short break.

>>Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here live here in San Francisco for Amazon web services summit. This is the smaller event compared to reinvent the big conference in Vegas, which we were broadcasting live. I'm John furry, the founder's SiliconANGLE. This is the cube. Our flagship program where we go out to the events district to see live from the noise and a an Amazon show would not be complete without talking to the Amazon guys directly about what's going on under the hood. And our next guest is ADI Krishnan and Ryan Wade have run the Canisius teams. Guys, welcome to the cube. So we, Dave Vellante and I was not here unfortunately. He has another commitment but we were going Gaga over the says we'd love red shift in love with going with the data. I see glaciers really low cost options, the store stuff, but when you start adding on red shift and you know can, he says you're adding in some new features that really kind of really pointed where the market's game, which is I need to deal with real time stuff. >>I'll need to deal with a lot of data. I need to manage it effectively at a low latency across any work use case. Okay. So how the hell do you come up with an ISA? Give us the insight into how it all came together. We'd love the real time. We'd love how it's all closing the loop if you will for developer. Just take us through how it came about. What are some of the stats now post re-invent share with us will be uh, the Genesis for Canisius was trying to solve our metering problem. The metering problem inside of AWS is how do we keep track with how our customers are using our products. So every time a customer does a read out of dynamo DB or they read a file out of S3 or they do some sort of transaction with any of our products, that generates a meeting record, it's tens of millions of records per second and tens of terabytes per hour. >>So it's a big workload. And what we were trying to do is understand how to transition from being a batch oriented processing where we using large hitting clusters to process all that data to a continuous processing where we could read all of that data in real time and make decisions on that data in real time. So you basically had created an aspirin for yourself is Hey, a little pain point internally, right? Yeah. It's kind of an example of us building a product to solve some of our own problems first and then making that available to the public. Okay. So when you guys do your Amazon thing, which I've gotten to know about it a little bit, the culture there, you guys kind of break stuff, kind of the quote Zuckerberg, you guys build kind of invented that philosophy, you know stuff good. Quickly iterating fast. So you saw your own problem and then was there an aha moment like hell Dan, this is good. We can bring it out in the market. What were customers asking for at the same time was kind of a known use case. Did you bring it to the market? What happened next? >>We spend a lot of time talking to a lot of customers. I mean that was kind of the logistical, uh, we had customers from all different sorts of investigative roles. Uh, financial services, consumer online services from manufacturing conditional attic come up to us and say, we have this canonical workflow. This workflow is about getting data of all of these producers, uh, the sources of data. They didn't have a way to aggregate that data and then driving it through a variety of different crossing systems to ultimately light up different data stores. Are these data source could be native to AWS stores like S3 time would be be uh, they could be a more interesting, uh, uh, higher data warehousing services like Gretchen. But the key thing was how do we deal with all this massive amount of data that's been producing real time, ingested, reliably scale it elastically and enable continuous crossing in the data. >>Yeah, we always loved the word of last tickets. You know, a term that you guys have built your business around being elastic. You need some new means. You have a lot of flexibility and that's a key part of being agile. But I want you guys at while we're here in the queue, define Kenny SIS for the folks out there, what the hell is it? Define it for the record. Then I have some specific questions I want to ask. Uh, so Canisius is a new service for processing huge amounts of streaming data in real time. Shortens and scales elastically. So as your data volume increases or decreases the service grows with you. And so like a no JS error log or an iPhone data. This is an example of this would be example of streaming. Yeah, exactly. You can imagine that you were tailing a whole bunch of logs coming off of servers. >>You could also be watching event streams coming out of a little internet of things type devices. Um, one of our customers we're talking about here is a super cell who's capturing in gain data from their game, Pasha, the plans. So as you're playing clash of the plans, you're tapping on the screen. All of that data is captured in thesis and then processed by my super Supercell. And this is validated. I mean obviously you mentioned some of the use cases you needed of things, just a sensor network to wearable computers or whatever. Mobile phones, I'll see event data coming off machines. So you've got machine data, you've got human data, got application data. That's kind of the data sets we're seeing with Kinesis, right? Traverse set. Um, also attraction with trends like spark out of Berkeley. You seeing in memory does this kind of, is this in your wheelhouse? >>How does that all relate to, cause you guys have purpose-built SSDs now in your new ECQ instances and all this new modern gear we heard in the announcements. How does all the in-memory stuff affect the Canisius service? It's a great question. When you can imagine as Canisius is being a great service for capturing all of that data that's being generated by, you know, hundreds of thousands or millions of sources, it gets sent to Canisius where we replicated across three different availability zones. That data is then made available for applications to process those that are processing that data could be Hadoop clusters, they could be your own Kaloosas applications. And it could be a spark cluster. And so writing spark applications that are processing that data in real time is a, it's a great use case and the in memory capabilities and sparker probably ideal for being able to process data that's stored in pieces. >>Okay. So let's talk about some of the connecting the dots. So Canisius works in conjunction with what other services are you seeing that is being adopted most right now? Now see I mentioned red shift, I'm just throwing that in there. I'll see a data warehousing tool seeing a lot of business tells. So basically people are playing with data, a lot of different needs for the data. So how does connect through the stack? I think they are the number one use case we see is customers capturing all of this data and then archiving all of it right away to S3 just been difficult to capture everything. Right. And even if you did, you probably could keep it for a little while and then you had to get, do you have to get rid of it? But, uh, with the, the prices for us three being so low and Canisius being so easy to capture tiny rights, these little tiny tales of log data, they're coming out of your servers are little bits of data coming off of mobile devices capture all of that, aggregate it and put it in S3. >>That's the number one use case we see as customers are becoming more sophisticated with using Kinesis, they then begin to run real time dashboards on top of Kinesis data. So you could, there's all the data into dynamo DB where you could push all that data into even something like Redshift and run analytics on top of that. The final cases, people in doing real time decision making based on PISA. So once you've got all this data coming in, putting it into a dynamo DB or Redshift or EMR, you then process it and then start making decisions, automated decisions that take advantage of them. So essentially you're taking STEM the life life cycle of kind of like man walking the wreck at some point. Right? It's like they start small, they store the data, usually probably a developer problem just in efficiencies. Log file management is a disaster. >>We know it's a pain in the butt for developers. So step one is solve that pain triage, that next step is okay I'm dashboard, I'm starting to learn about the data and then three is more advanced like real time decision making. So like now that I've got the data coming in in real time and not going to act. Yeah, so when I want to bring that up, this is more of a theoretical kind of orthogonal conversation is where you guys are basically doing is we look, we like that Silicon angles like the point out to kind of what's weird in the market and kind of why it's important and that is the data things. There's something to do with data. It really points to a new developer. Fair enough. And I want to give you guys comments on this. No one's really come out yet and said here's a development kit or development environment for data. >>You see companies like factual doing some amazing stuff. I don't know if you know those guys just met with um, new Relic. They launched kind of this data off the application. So you seeing, you seeing what you guys are doing, you can imagine that now the developer framework is, Hey I had to deal with as a resource constraint so you haven't seen it. So I want to get your thoughts. Do you see that happening in that direction? How will data be presented to developers? Is it going to be abstracted away? Will there be development environments? Is it matter? And just organizing the data, what's your vision around? So >>that's really good person because we've got customers that come up to us and say I want to mail real time data with batch processing or I have my data that is right now lots of little data and now I want to go ahead and aggregate it to make sense of it over a longer period of time. And there's a lot of theory around how data should be modeled, how we should be represented. But the way we are taking the evolution set is really learning from our customers and customers come up and say we need the ability to capture data quickly. But then what I want to do is apply my existing Hadoop stack and tools to my data because then you won't understand that. And as a response to that classroom demand, uh, was the EMR connect. Somehow customers can use say hi queries or cascading scripts and apply that to real time data. That can means is ingesting. Another response to pass was, was the, that some customers that would really liked the, the, the stream processing construct a storm. And so on, our step over there was to say, okay, we shipped the Canisius storm spout, so now customers can bring their choice of matter Dame in and mail back with Canisius. So I think the, the short answer there right now is that, >>you know, it's crazy. It's really early, right? I would also add like, like just with, uh, as with have you, there's so many different ways to process data in the real time space. They're going to be so many different ways that people process that data. There's never going to be a single tool that you use for processing real time data. It's a lot of tools and it adapts to the way that people think about data. So this also brings us back to the dev ops culture, which you guys essentially founded Amazon early in the early days and you know I gotta give you credit for that and you guys deserve it. Dev ops was really about building from the ground good cloud, which post.com bubble. Really the thing about that's Amazon's, you've lived your own, your own world, right? To survive with lesson and help other developers. >>But that brings up a good point, right? So okay, data's early and I'm now going to be advancing slowly. Can there be a single architecture for dealing with data or is it going to be specialized systems? You're seeing Oracle made some mates look probably engineered systems. You seeing any grade stacks work? What's the take on the data equation? I'm not just going to do because of the data out the internet of things data. What is the refer architecture right now? I think what we're going to see is a set of patterns that we can do alone and people will be using those patterns for doing particular types of processing. Uh, one of the other teams that I run at is the fraud detection team and we use a set of machine learning algorithms to be able to continuously monitor usage of the cloud, to identify patterns of behavior which are indicative of fraud. >>Um, that kind of pattern of use is very different than I'm doing clickstream analysis and the kind of pattern that we use for doing that would naturally be different. I think we're going to see a canonical set of patterns. I don't know if we're going to see a very particular set of technologies. Yeah. So that brings us back to the dev ops things. So how do I want to get your take on this? Because dev ops is really about efficiencies. Software guys don't want to be hardware guys the other day. That's how it all started. I don't want to provision the network. I don't want a stack of servers. I just want to push code and then you guys have crazy, really easy ways to make that completely transparent. But now you joke about composite application development. You're saying, Hey, I'm gonna have an EMR over here for my head cluster and then a deal with, so maybe fraud detection stream data, it's going to be a different system than a Duke or could be a relational database. >>Now I need to basically composite we build an app. That's what we're talking about here. Composite construction resource. Is that kind of the new dev ops 2.0 maybe. So we'll try to tease out here's what's next after dev ops. I mean dev ops really means there's no operations. And how does a developer deal with these kinds of complex environments like fraud detection, maybe application here, a container for this bass. So is it going to be fully composite? Well, I don't know if we run the full circuit with the dev ops development models. It's a great model. It's worked really well for a number of startups. However, making it easy to be able to plug different components together. I get just a great idea. So, like as ADI mentioned just a moment ago, our ability to take data and Kinesis and pump that right into a elastic MapReduce. >>It's great. And it makes it easy for people to use their existing applications with a new system like pieces that kind of composing of applications. It's worth well for a long time. And I think you're just going to see us continuing to do more and more of that kind of work. So I'm going to ask both of you guys a question. Give me an example of when something broke internally. This is not in a sound, John, I don't go negative here, but you got your, part of your culture is, is to move fast, iterate. So when you, these important projects like Canisius give me an example of like, that was a helpful way in which I stumbled. What did you learn? What was the key pain points of the evolution of getting it out the door and what key things did you learn from media success or kind of a speed bump or a failure along the way? >>Well, I think, uh, I think one of the first things we learned right after we chipped and we were still in a limited previous and we were trying it out with our customers who are getting feedback and learning with, uh, what they wanted to change in the product. Uh, one of the first things that we learned was that the, uh, the amount of time that it took to put data into Canisius and receive a return code was too high for a lot of our customers. It was probably around a hundred milliseconds for the, that you put the data in to the time that we've replicated that data across multiple availability zones and return success to the client. Uh, that was, that was a moment for us to really think about what it meant to enable people to be pushing tons of data into pieces. And we went back a hundred milliseconds. >>That's low, no bad. But right away we went back and doubled our efforts and we came back in around, you know, somewhere between 30 and 40 milliseconds depending on your network connectivity. Hey, the old days, that was, that was the spitting disc of the art. 10, 20 Meg art. It's got a VC. That's right. Those Lotus files out, you know, seeing those windows files. So you guys improve performance. So that's an example. You guys, what's the biggest surprise that you guys have seen from a customer use case that was kind of like, wow, this is really something that we didn't see happening on a, on a larger scale that caught me by surprise. >>Uh, I is in use case it'd be a corner use case. Like, well, I'd never figured that, you know, I would say like, uh, some of the one thing that actually surprised us was how common it is for people to have multiple applications reading out of the same stream. Uh, like again, the basic use case for so many customers is I'm going to take all this data and I'm just going to throw it into S3. Uh, and we kind of envisioned that there might be a couple of different applications reading data of that stream. We have a couple of customers that actually have uh, as many as three applications that are reading that stream of events that are coming out of Kinesis. Each one of them is reading from a different position in the stream. They're able to read from different locations, process that data differently. >>But uh, but the idea that cleanses is so different from traditional queuing systems and yet provides, uh, a real time emotionality and that multiple applications can read from it. That was, that was a bit of a versa. The number one use case right now, who's adopting, can you sit there, watch folks watching out there, did the Canisius brain trust right here with an Amazon? Um, what are the killer no brainer scenarios that you're seeing on the uptake side right now that people should be aware of that they haven't really kicked the tires on Kinesis where they should be? What should they be looking at? I think the number one use case is log and ingestion. So like I'm tailing logs that are coming off of web servers, my application servers, uh, data that's just being produced continuously who grab all that data. And very easily put it into something like us through the beauty of that model is I now have all the logo that I got it off of all of my hosts as quickly as possible and I can go do log nights later if there's a problem that is the slam dunk use case for using crisis. >>Uh, there are other scenarios that are beginning to emerge as well. I don't know audio if you want to talk, that's many interesting and lots of customers are doing so already is emit data from all sorts of devices. So this is, these devices are not just your smartphones and tablets that are practically food computing machines, but also seemingly low power, seemingly dumb devices. And the design remains the same. There are millions of these out there and having the ability to capture that in a day produce in real time is, you know, I think just, uh, just to highlight that, one of things I'm hearing on the cube interviews, all the customers we talk to is the number one thing is I just got to scroll the date. I know what I want to do with it yet. Now that's a practice that's a hangover from the BI data warehouse in business of just store from a compliance reasons now, which is basically like, that's like laser as far as I'm concerned. >>Traditional business intelligence systems are like their version of Galatians chipped out somewhere and give me those reports. Five weeks later they come back. But that's different. Now you see people store that data and they realize that I need to touch it faster. I don't know yet when, that's why I'm teasing out this whole development 2.0 model because I'm just seeing more and more people want the data hanging around but not fully parked out in Malaysia or some sort of, you know, compliance storage. So there's, you know, I think, I think I kind of understand where you're going. There's a, I'm going to use a model for like how we used to do BI analytics and our own internal data warehouse. I also run the data warehouse for AWS. Um, and the classic BI model there is somebody asks a question, we go off and we just do some analysis and if it's a question that we're going to ask repeatedly, we don't, you know, a special fact table or a dimensional view or something to be able to grind through that particular view and do it very quickly. >>A Kunis is offers a different kind of data processing model, which is I'm collecting all of the data and make it easy to capture everything, but now I can start doing things like, Oh, there's, there's certain pieces of data that I want to respond to you quickly. Just like we would create dimensional views that would give us access to particular sets of data and very quick pace. We can now also respond to when those events are generated very quickly. Well, you guys are the young guns in the industry now. I'm a little bit older and the gray hair showing, we actually use the word data processing back in the day. The data processing that the DP department or the MIS department, if you remember those those days, MIS was the management information. Are we going back to those terms? I mean we're looking at look what's happening. >>Is it the software mainframe in the cloud? I mean these are some of the words you're using. Just data processing data pipeline. Well, I my S that's my work, but I mean we're back to those old school stuff but different, well and I think those kinds of very generic terms make a lot of sense for what we're doing is we, especially as we move into these brand new spaces like wow, what do I do with real time data? Like real time data processing is kind of the third type of big data processing or data warehousing was the first time I know what my data looks like. I've created indices like a pre computation of the data, uh, uh, Hadoop clusters and the MapReduce model was kind of the second wave of big data processing and realtime processing I think will be the third way. I think our process, well, I'm getting the hook here, but I got to just say, you guys are doing an amazing job. >>We're big fans of Amazon. I always say that, uh, you know, it was very rare in the history the world. We look at innovations like the printing press, the Wright brothers discover, you know, flying and things like we, Amazon with cloud. You guys have done something that's pretty amazing. But what I find fascinating is it's very rare to see a company that's commoditizing and disrupting and innovating at the same time. And it's really a unique value proposition and the competition is responding. IBM, Google. So you guys have a lot of targets painted on your back by a lot of big players. So, uh, one congratulations on your success, which means that you, you know, you're not going to go in the open field and fight the, the British if they said use the American revolution analogy. You've got to continue to compete. So what's your view of that? >>I mean, and I'm sure you don't talk about competition. You'd probably told him not to talk about it, but I mean, you got to know that all the guns are on you right now. The big guys are putting up the sea wall for your wave of innovation. How do you guys deal with that? It's just cause it's not like we, we ignore our competitors but we obsess about our customers, right? Like it's just constantly looking for what are people trying to do and how can we help them and can seem like a very simple strategy. But the strategy is built with people want and we get a lot of great feedback on how we can make our products better. And it certainly will force you to up your game when you have the competition citing on you. You've got more focused on the customer, which is cool. >>But like you guys kind of aware of like games on, I mean Amazon is at any given a little pep talk, Hey, game is on guys. Let's rock and roll. Right? You guys are aware, right? I think we're totally wearing, I think we're actually sometimes a little surprised at how long it's taken to our competitors to kind of get into this industry with us. So, uh, again, as Andy talked about earlier today, we've had eight years in the cloud computing market. It's been a great eight years and we have a lot of work to do, a lot of stuff that we're going to be almost ready for middle school. Um, final final question for you guys and give you the final word here. Share the photos on the last word is why is this show so important, right this point in time in this market. Why is this environment of the thousands of people that are here learning about Amazon, why, what should they know about why this is such an important advance? I think our summits are a great opportunity for us to share with customers how to use our AWS services. Learn firsthand from not only our hands on labs, but also our partners that are providing information about how they use AWS resources. It's, it's a great opportunity to meet a lot of people that are taking advantage of the cloud computing wave and see how to use the cloud most effectively. >>It's a great time to be in the cloud right now and the Olin's amazing services coming up. There's no better mind now of people coming together and so that's probably as good reasons. Then you guys are doing a great job disrupting change in the future. Modern enterprise and modern business, modern applications. Excited to watch it. If you guys keep focusing on your customer, but that customer base, you keep up the pace that's sick. That question, can you finish the race? That's what I always tell Dave a lot. They, I know Jay's watching Dave. Shout out to Dave Volante, who's on the mobile app right now is traveling. Guys, thanks for coming inside. Can he says great stuff. Closing the loop real time. Amazon really building it out. Thanks for coming on. If you'd be right back with our next guest after this short break. Thank you.