>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with our leaders all around the world. This is theCUBE conversation. >> Welcome to theCUBE and the special IBM Brocade panel. I'm Lisa Martin. And I'm having a great opportunity here to sit down for the next 20 minutes with three gentlemen please welcome Brian Sherman a distinguished engineer from IBM, Brian, great to have you joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> And Matt key here. Flash systems SME from IBM, Matt, happy Friday. >> Happy Friday, Lisa. Thanks for having us. >> Our pleasure. And AIG Customer solution here from Brocade is here. AJ welcome. >> Thanks for having me along. >> AJ we're going to stick with you, IBM and Brocade have had a very long you said about 22 year strategic partnership. There's some new news. And in terms of the evolution of that talk to us about what's going on with with Brocade IBM and what is new in the storage industry? >> Yeah, so the the newest thing for us at the moment is that IBM just in mid-October launched our Gen seven platforms. So this is think about the stresses that are going on in the IT environments. This is our attempt to keep pace with with the performance levels that the IBM teams are now putting into their storage environments the All-Flash Data Centers and the new technologies around non-volatile memory express. So that's really, what's driving this along with the desire to say, "You know what people aren't allowed "to be in the data center." And so if they can't be in the data center then the fabrics actually have to be able to figure out what's going on and basically provide a lot of the automation pieces. So something we're referring to as the autonomous SAM. >> And we're going to dig into NBME of our fabrics in a second but I do want to AJ continue with you in terms of industries, financial services, healthcare airlines there's the biggest users, biggest need. >> Pretty much across the board. So if you look at the global 2000 as an example, something on the order of about 96, 97% of the global 2000 make use of fiber channel environments and in portions of their world generally tends to be a lot of the high end financial guys, a lot of the pharmaceutical guys, the automotive, the telcos, pretty much if the data matters, and it's something that's critical whether we talk about payment card information or healthcare environments, data that absolutely has to be retained, has to get there, has to perform then it's this combination that we're bringing together today around the new storage elements and the functionalities they have there. And then our ability in the fabric. So the concept of a 64 gig environment to help basically not be the bottleneck in the application demands, 'cause one thing I can promise you after 40 years in this industry is the software guys always figure out how to all the performance that the hardware guys put on the shelf, right? Every single time. >> Well there's gauntlet thrown down there. Matt, let's go to you. I want to get IBM's perspective on this. Again, as we said, a 22 year strategic partnership, as we look at things like not being able to get into the data center during these unprecedented times and also the need to be able to remove some of those bottlenecks how does IBM view this? >> Yeah, totally. It's certainly a case of raising the bar, right? So we have to as a vendor continue to evolve in terms of performance, in terms of capacity, cost density, escalating simplicity, because it's not just a case of not be able to touch the rates, but there's fewer people not being able to adjust the rates, right? It's a case where our operational density continues to have to evolve being able to raise the bar on the network and be able to still saturate those line rates and be able to provide that simply a cost efficiency that gets us to a utilization that raises the bar from our per capita ratio from not just talking about 200, 300 terabytes per admin but going beyond the petabyte scale per admin. And we can't do that unless people have access to the data. And we have to provide the resiliency. We have to provide the simplicity of presentation and automation from our side. And then this collaboration that we do with our network brother like Brocade here continued to stay out of the discussion when it comes to talking about networks and who threw the ball next. So we truly appreciate this Gen seven launch that they're doing we're happy to come in and fill that pipe on the flash side for them. >> Excellent and Brian as a distinguished engineer and let me get your perspectives on the evolution of the technology over this 22 year partnership. >> Thanks Lisa. It certainly has been a longstanding, a great relationship, great partnership all the way from inventing joint things, to developing, to testing and deploying to different technologies through the course of time. And it's been one of those that where we are today, like AJ had talked about being able to sustain what the applications require today in this always on time type of environment. And as Matt said, bringing together the density and operational simplicity to make that happen 'cause we have to make it easier from the storage side for operations to be able to manage this volume of data that we have coming out and our due diligence is to be able to serve the data up as fast as we can and as resilient as we can. >> And so sticking with you, Brian that simplicity is key because as we know as we get more and more advances in technology the IT environment is only becoming more complex. So really truly enabling organizations in any industry to simplify is absolute table stakes. >> Yeah, it definitely is. And that's core to what we're focused on and how do we make the storage environment simple. It's been one those through the years and historically, we've had entry-level us and the industry as a whole, is that an entry-level product mid range level products, high-end level products. And earlier this year, we said enough, enough of that it's one product portfolio. So it's the same software stack it's just, okay. Small, medium and large in terms of the appliances that get delivered. Again, building on what Matt said, from a density perspective where we can have a petabyte of uncompressed and data reduced storage in a two Enclosure. So it becomes from a overall administration perspective, again, one software stake, one automation stack, one way to do point in time copies, replication. So in focusing on how to make that as simple for the operations as we possibly can. >> I think we'd all take a little bit of that right now. Matt, let's go to you and then AJ view, let's talk a little bit more, dig into the IBM storage arrays. I mean, we're talking about advances in flash, we're talking about NBME as a forcing function for applications to change and evolve with the storage. Matt, give us your thoughts on that. >> We saw a monumental leap in where we take some simplicity pieces from how we deliver our arrays but also the technology within the arrays. About nine months ago, in February we launched into the latest generation of non technology and with that born the story of simplicity one of the pieces that we've been happily essentially negating of value prop is storage level tiering and be able to say, "Hey, well we still support the idea of going down "to near line SaaS and enterprise disc in different flavors "of solid state whether it's tier one short usage "the tier zero high performance, high usage, "all the way up to storage class memory." While we support those technologies and the automated tiering, this elegance of what we've done as latest generation technology that we launched nine months ago has been able to essentially homogenize the environments to we're able to deliver that petabyte per rack unit ratio that Brian was mentioning be able to deliver over into all tier zero solution that doesn't have to go through woes of software managed data reduction or any kind of software managed hearing just to be always fast, always essentially available from a 100% data availability guaranteed that we offer through a technology called hyper swap, but it's really kind of highlighting what we take in from that simplicity story, by going into that extra mile and meeting the market in technology refresh. I mean, if you say the words IBM over the Thanksgiving table, you're kind of thinking, how big blue, big mainframe, old iron stuff but it's very happy to say over in distributed systems that we are in fact leading this pack by multiple months not just the fact that, "Hey, we announced sooner." But actually coming to delivering on-prem the actual solution itself nine, 10 months prior to anybody else and when that gets us into new density flavors gets us into new efficiency offerings. Not just talk about, "Hey, I can do this petabyte scale "a couple of rack units but with the likes of Brocade." That actually equates to a terabyte per second and a floor tile, what's that do for your analytics story? And the fact that we're now leveraging NBME to undercut the value prop of spinning disc in your HBC analytics environments by five X, that's huge. So now let's take near line SaaS off the table for anything that's actually per data of an angle of value to us. So in simplicity elements, what we're doing now will be able to make our own flash we've been deriving from the tech memory systems acquisition eight years ago and then integrating that into some essentially industry proven software solutions that we do with the bird flies. That appliance form factor has been absolutely monumental for us in the distributed systems. >> And thanks for giving us a topic to discuss at our socially distant Thanksgiving table. We'll talk about IBM. I know now I have great, great conversation. AJ over to you lot of advances here also in such a dynamic times, I want to get Brocade's perspective on how you're taking advantage of these latest technologies with IBM and also from a customer's perspective, what are they feeling and really being able to embrace and utilize that simplicity that Matt talked about. >> So there's a couple of things that fall into that to be honest, one of which is that similar to what you heard Brian described across the IBM portfolio for storage in our SaaS infrastructure. It's a single operating system up and down the line. So from the most entry-level platform we have to the largest platform we have it's a single software up and down. It's a single management environment up and down and it's also intended to be extremely reliable and extremely performance because here's part of the challenge when Matt's talking about multiple petabytes in a two U rack height, but the conversation you want to flip on its head there a little bit is "Okay exactly how many virtual machines "and how many applications are you going to be driving "out of that?" Because it's going to be thousands like between six and 10,000 potentially out of that, right? So imagine then if you have some sort of little hiccup in the connectivity to the data store for 6,000 to 10,000 applications, that's not the kind of thing that people get forgiving about. When we're all home like this. When your healthcare, when your finance, when your entertainment, when everything is coming to you across the network and remotely in this version and it's all application driven, the one thing that you want to make sure of is that network doesn't hiccup because humans have a lot of really good characteristics. Patience would not be one of those. And so you want to make sure that everything is in fact in play and running. And that's as one of the things that we work very hard with our friends at IBM to make sure of is that the kinds of analytics that Matt was just describing are things that you can readily get done. Speed is the new currency of business is a phrase you hear from... A quote you hear from Marc Benioff at Salesforce, right. And he's right if you can get data out of intelligence out of the data you've been collecting, that's really cool. But one of the other sort of flip sides on the people not being able to be in the data center and then to Matt's point, not as many people around either is how are humans fast enough when you look... Honestly when you look at the performance of the platforms, these folks are putting up how is human response time going to be good enough? And we all sort of have this headset of a network operations center where you've got a couple dozen people in a half lit room staring at massive screens on the thing to pop. Okay, if the first time a red light pops the human begins the investigation at what point is that going to be good enough? And so our argument for the autonomy piece of of what we're doing in the fabrics is you can't wait on the humans. You need to augment it. I get that people still want to be in charge and that's good. Humans are still smarter than the Silicon. We're not as repeatable, but we're still so far smarter about it. And so we needed to be able to do that measurement. We need to be able to figure out what normal looks like. We need to be able to highlight to the storage platform and to the application admins, when things go sideways because the demand from the applications isn't going to slow down. The demands from your environment whether you want to think about take the next steps with not just your home entertainment home entertainment systems but learning augmented reality, right. Virtual reality environments for kids, right? How do you make them feel like they're part and parcel of the classroom, for as long as we have to continue living a modified world and perhaps past it, right? If you can take a grade school from your local area and give them a virtual walkthrough of the loop where everybody's got a perfect view and it all looks incredibly real to them those are cool things, right? Those are cool applications, right? If you can figure out a new vaccine faster, right. Not a bad thing, right. If we can model better, not a bad thing. So we need to enable those things we need to not be the bottleneck, which is you get Matt and Brian over an adult beverage at some point and ask them about the cycle time for the Silicon they're playing with. We've never had Moore's law applied to external storage before never in the history of external storage. Has that been true until now. And so their cycle times, Matt, right? >> Yeah you struck a nerve there AJ, cause it's pretty simple for us to follow the linear increase in capacity and computational horsepower, right. We just ride the X86 bandwagon, ride the Silicon bandwagon. But what we have to do in order to maintain But what we have to do in order to maintain the simplicity story is followed more important one is the resiliency factor, right? 'Cause as we increased the capacity as we increased the essentially the amount of data responsible for each admin we have to literally log rhythmically increase the resiliency of these boxes because we're going to talk about petabyte scale systems and hosting them really 10,000 virtual machines in the two U form factor. I need to be able to accommodate that to make sure things don't blip. I need resilient networks, right. Have redundancy and access. I need to have protection schemes at every single layer of the stack. And so we're quite happy to be able to provide that as we leapfrog the industry and go in literally situations that are three times the competitive density that we you see out there and other distributed systems that are still bound by the commercial offerings, then, hey we also have to own that risk from a vendor side we have to make these things is actually rate six protection scheme equivalent from a drive standpoint and act back from controllers everywhere. Be able to supply the performance and consistency of that service throughout even the bad situations. >> And to that point, one of the things that you talked about, that's interesting to me that I'd kind of like you to highlight is your recovery times, because bad things will happen. And so you guys do something very, very different about that. That's critical to a lot of my customers because they know that Murphy will show up one day. So, I mean 'cause it happens, so then what. >> Well, speaking of that, then what Brian I want to go over to you. You mentioned Matt mentioned resiliency. And if we think of the situation that we're in in 2020 many companies are used to DR and BC plans for natural disasters, pandemics. So as we look at the shift and then the the volume of ransomware, that's going up one ransomware attack every 11 seconds this year, right now. How Brian what's that change that businesses need to make from from cyber security to cyber resiliency? >> Yeah, it's a good point in, and I try to hammer that home with our clients that, you're used to having your business continuity disaster recovery this whole cyber resiliency thing is a completely separate practice that we have to set up and think about and go through the same thought process that you did for your DR What are you going to do? What are you going to pretest? How are you going to test it? How are you going to detect whether or not you've got ransomware? So I spent a lot of time with our clients on that theme of you have to think about and build your cyber resiliency plan 'cause it's going to happen. It's not like a DR plan where it's a pure insurance policy and went and like you said, every 11 seconds there's an event that takes place. It's going to be a win not then. Yeah and then we have to work with our customers to put in a place for cyber resiliency and then we spent a lot of discussion on, okay what does that mean for my critical applications, from a restore time of backup and mutability. What do we need for those types of services, right? In terms of quick restore, which are my tier zero applications that I need to get back as fast as possible, what other ones can I they'll stick out on tape or virtual tape in and do things like that. So again, there's a wide range of technology that we have available in the in the portfolio for helping our clients from cyber resiliency. And then we try to distinguish that cyber resiliency versus cyber security. So how do we help to keep every, everybody out from a cybersecurity view? And then what can we do from the cyber resiliency, from a storage perspective to help them once once it gets to us, that's a bad thing. So how can we help? How help our folks recover? Well, and that's the point that you're making Brian is that now it's not a matter of, could this happen to us? It's going to, how much can we tolerate? But ultimately we have to be able to recover. We can't restore that data and one of those things when you talk about ransomware and things, we go to that people as the weakest link insecurity AJ talked about that, there's the people. Yeah there's probably quite a bit of lack of patients going on right now. But as we look as I want to go back over to you to kind of look at, from a data center perspective and these storage solutions, being able to utilize things to help the people, AI and Machine Learning. You talked about AR VR. Talk to me a little bit more about that as you see, say in the next 12 months or so as moving forward, these trends these new solutions that are simplified. >> Yeah, so a couple of things around that one of which is iteration of technology the storage platforms the Silicon they're making use of Matt I think you told me 14 months is the roughly the Silicon cycle that you guys are seeing, right? So performance levels are going to continue to go up the speeds. The speeds are going to continue to go up. The scale is going to is going to continue to shift. And one of the things that does for a lot of the application owners is it lets them think broader. It lets them think bigger. And I wish I could tell you that I knew what the next big application was going to be but then we'd be having a conversation about which Island in the Pacific I was going to be retiring too. But they're going to come and they're going to consume this performance because if you look at the applications that you're dealing with in your everyday life, right. They continue to get broader. The scope of them continues to scale out, right. There's things that we do. I saw I think it was an MIT development recently where they're talking about being able to and they were originally doing it for Alzheimer's and dementia, but they're talking about being able to use the microphones in your smartphone to listen to the way you cough and use that as a predictor for people who have COVID that are not symptomatic yet. So asymptomatic COVID people, right? So when we start talking about where this, where this kind of technology can go and where it can lead us, right. There's sort of this unending possibility for it. But what that on, in part is that the infrastructure has to be extremely sound, right? The foundation has to be there. We have to have the resilience, the reliability and one of the points that Brian was just making is extremely key. We talk about disaster tolerance business continuous, so business continuance is how do you recover? Cyber resilience is the same conversation, right? So you have the protection side of it. Here's my defenses. Now what happens when they actually get in. And let's be honest, right? Humans are frequently that weak link, right. For a variety of behaviors that the humans that humans have. And so when that happens, where's the software in the storage that tells you, "Hey, wait there's an odd traffic behavior here "where data is being copied "at rates and to locations that that are not normal." And so that's part of when we talk about what we're doing in our side of the automation is how do you know what normal looks like? And once you know what normal looks like you can figure out where the outliers are. And that's one of the things that people use a lot for trying to determine whether or not ransomware is going on is, "Hey, this is a traffic pattern, that's new. "This is a traffic pattern. "That's different." Are they doing this because they're copying the dataset from here to here and encrypting it as they go, right? 'Cause that's one of the challenges you got to, you got to watch for. So I think you're going to see a lot of advancement in the application space. And not just the MIT stuff, which is great. The fact that people are actually able to or I may have misspoken, maybe Johns Hopkins. And I apologize to the Johns Hopkins folks that kind of scenario, right. There's no knowing what they can make use of here in terms of the data sets, right. Because we're gathering so much data, the internet of things is an overused phrase but the sheer volume of data that's being generated outside of the data center, but manipulated analyzed and stored internally. 'Cause you got to have it someplace secure. Right and that's one of the things that we look at from our side is we've got to be that as close to unbreakable as we can be. And then when things do break able to figure out exactly what happened as rapidly as possible and then the recovery cycle as well. >> Excellent and I want to finish with you. We just have a few seconds left, but as AJ was talking about this massive evolution and applications, for example when we talk about simplicity and we talk about resiliency and being able to recover when something happens, how did these new technologies that we've been unpacking today? How did these help the admin folks deal with all of the dynamics that are happening today? >> Yeah so I think the biggest the drop, the mic thing we can say right now is that we're delivering 100% tier zero in Vme without data reduction value props on top of it at a cost that undercuts off-prem S3 storage. So if you look at what you can do from an off-prem solution for air gap and from cyber resiliency you can put your data somewhere else. And it's going to take whatever long time to transfer that data back on prem, to read get back to your recover point. But when you work at economics that we're doing right now in the distributed systems, hey, you're DR side, your copies of data do not have to wait for that. Off-prem bandwidth to restore. You can actually literally restore it in place. And you couple that with all of the the technology on the software side that integrates with it I get incremental point in time. Recovery is either it's on the primary side of DRS side, wherever, but the fact that we get to approach this thing from a cost value then by all means I can naturally absorb a lot of the cyber resiliency value in that too. And because it's all getting all the same orchestrated capabilities, regardless of the big, small, medium, all that stuff, it's the same skillsets. And so I don't need to really learn new platforms or new solutions to providing cyber resiliency. It's just part of my day-to-day activity because fundamentally all of us have to wear that cyber resiliency hat. But as, as our job, as a vendor is to make that simple make it cost elegance, and be able to provide a essentially a homogenous solutions overall. So, hey, as your business grows, your risk gets averted on your recovery means also get the thwarted essentially by your incumbent solutions and architecture. So it's pretty cool stuff that we're doing, right. >> It is pretty cool. And I'd say a lot of folks would say, that's the Nirvana but I think the message that the three of you have given in the last 20 minutes or so is that IBM and Brocade together. This is a reality. You guys are a cornucopia of knowledge. Brian, Matt, AJ, thank you so much for joining me on this panel I really enjoyed our conversation. >> Thank you. >> Thank you again Lisa. >> My pleasure. From my guests I'm Lisa Martin. You've been watching this IBM Brocade panel on theCUBE.

hey welcome back everybody Jeff Rick here or the cube conversation and the SiliconANGLE cubes Palo Alto studio a little bit of a break and the crazy conference season so here to kind of fix the gear and take things up and sit down and in the context of a conversation outside of a show to really get the update and we're really excited to be joined here by two guests who are announcing a pretty exciting deal that's happening today is who you shoot a CTO of Hitachi Data scissors welcome again to you and jack mazzoni vice president storage networking at brocade welcome thank you so let's just jump right into it tell everybody what happened today and why this is big news yeah sure I'm gonna start it and so what we're announcing today is broke aids developed its its next-gen called gen-6 fibre channel switches and it's a whole portfolio and we're very excited that hitachi who resells the OEM are our product to to their customer base is launching on the state as well so we're very excited about that and it's big news right and so you'll be able to buy this product today from hitachi for all the great customers that we have out there today and that's the big announcement excellent and why is this important to your customers well this is just the next evolution in fibre channel I mean 32 gigabit per second don't you know we were just on 16 now not long ago and so it's going to open up a lot of bandwidth open up you know more workload being processed provide new opportunities for new applications as well so it's funny a lot a lot of talk on you know already it in the end of Moore's law we're going to be able to squeak out more compute power outage micro processors and stuff but it sounds like you guys are squeezing out a lot more performance on the network yeah I know absolutely and one thing that you know Hugh mentioned earlier which I thought was great is you know when you get performance like this in the network and you just get performance in general enables consolidation enables efficiencies right and when flash is able to go and allow you to do let's say the same or more amount of workloads with less course that's a good thing right and and the networks then got to be able to handle that and it's that kind of efficiencies that when we can jointly bring to our customers that allows them to then spend the time and think about how they transform their IT operations right into this digital transformation era into into enabling IT to be the strategic foundation to go drive the enterprise right and I know sometimes it's hard to to make that connection all the way from Genesis fibre channel to that that's how that connection goes so so it's it's been a proven winner to drive performance it saves money it saves it enables innovation and I think the commitment that brocade and Hitachi have had to to quality to the highest levels of reliability and customer service over the years has really been a cornerstone of our success it's been a great partnership I know our CEO likes to say we partner better than anybody in the industry and that's absolutely true and Hitachi has just been one of those fantastic partners for us for over a decade now so let's unpack that a little bit why is partnership so important and not only just specifically between the two companies here but you know we go to a ton of shows and every show now even if it's a specific vendor like the pentaho show is a whole ecosystem right nobody can do it alone anymore and there's a really kind of renewed focus around the ecosystem and and everyone kind of coming together at the end of the day provide solutions to customers that are going to solve problems so it's a very important piece of it yeah and I think you've a great example that is if it really is a requirement if you think about private cloud infrastructures and converge infrastructures you're bringing so many elements together to deliver a total solution and Hitachi UCP is a great example where you have you know great technologies from hitachi in there we've been able to participate some of our fibre channel as well as our IP storage switches we were able to participate with that and so really I think if you want to participate in a cloud type of architecture whether it's public private hybrid you're going to have to partner you're going to have to particles you may not have all the technologies you may not have all the specialties and customers could require that on at some some levels that's kind of my take on it yes I mean you know we could have tried to develop our own fibre channel switches but you know that would have taken a lot more effort and time and distraction from what our core competencies are you know I mean brocade has a conference season networking both IP and fibre channel networking so it doesn't make any sense for us to try to do that which is better to partner with that right so and the future is going to be all about partnering and and more toward open source to right and the other thing that we find over and over again is really the changing expectations of the way software performs and we hear it all the time you know that why doesn't the software at my work perform like the software on my phone and why isn't it faster and why isn't it more integrated with other sources of information so the demand for better faster stronger applications is only going to increase right nobody wants less data though he wants less performance buddy wats less latency and especially in kind of an API world where all these applications are now not just siloed stacks of applications but they're pulling data from all sorts of places the speed and latency really becomes critical yeah I know I absolutely right and that's why I think this announcement and the construct of the you know the all-flash data center and all the advancements happening with flash is so important it's that linkage and then what the applications can do once they take advantage that you know I always tell people it's like remember the first time your laptop went to a all flash disk remember that experience like via the old spinning disk you're booting up well go to windows right and then you with all flash it was like that emotional experience or how great it was right you take that level at an enterprise level right where you have thousands and thousands of thousands of disks running thousands of applications and now you bring in flash and then around the corner you ring in nvme it's amazing to think about what's going to be coming down the future right and we're very excited about our position it really being it that the the central point of if you will where all this information flow has to go through the network and you know whether it's fibre channel whether it's IP you know we're going to keep to our core values which is you know the highest levels of qualities resiliency bringing in the analytics and partner partner with the top quality companies in the world such as itachi and what was interesting about this release is you added a lot more than a tease a lot more manageability lot more reporting a lot more visibility you know one of the big themes obviously in big data is to move from you know reactive to predictive too prescriptive right and so to have the management layer to have kind of the extra amount of information that you can take advantage of because you've got excess capacity and the pipes if you will and better connectivity to the infrastructure enables a whole different layer of management is which is if you've talked about you and prior interviews you people have to manage a lot more right they're not managing individual boxes anymore now whole different scale man need to be able to automate that those management tools helps us to automate that the infrastructure management also the security part is very important you know the security that brocade brings them into their right into the switch itself right and the security is an interesting point right because that's again a consistent theme everywhere we go it's the old moat just doesn't work anymore the mode and the castle walls now you really have to have security baked in all over the place and the data layer the networking layer all over the place it was the interesting thing is if you think about fiber channel all right let's just offer five channels of technology it is fundamentally right more secure than Ethernet oh we love you know really a great IP portfolio and everything but if you think about Ethernet or excuse me fibre channel when you plug in it it's off by default well first it's a separate network all together right so that's that's one layer secure but it's an off by default meaning that just get you plug in doesn't mean you have access to anything you know you got to go through one man here go there's only going to go through some other stuff but some people say its complexity but but you're at least now actively saying how are the communication is going to happen thin within the this network or either that's really the opposite right because the benefit ethering you plug it in and hey everybody's connected right that's what you want but but when it comes to enterprise let's say storage applications that needs a really but is that the behavior you want that anything that just plugs into it all of a sudden now can connect and and that's one thing that gets kind of lost sometimes than the discussions and the monitor data centers and here I'm really glad that you brought it up and you dropped out of to Jeff it's it's we realize that we're adding more things into it right we're adding more capabilities for in-flight encryption you mentioned forward error correction so the other capabilities were built in it so we take security very seriously and and inherently I think that's another reason that the viability of fibre channel has remained for as long as it has been yeah and it just own it one more time you know kind of what are some of the specific benefits that came out of you two working together for this launch how are you really kind of taking advantage of each other's strengths to really provide a better solution today that people can go out and get well one of the things is they offer backward compelled compatibility we're with two generations right right and that enables us we have a lot of legacy things that we've got to bring forward they don't just rip everything out and put in all these stuff turn the data center off for the weekend is my bonus so you know it gives us that easy transition migration into these higher higher technology levels big one yeah a big one yeah and I think when when the in the porn part two is when we deliver our systems to itachi they test it with their latest and greatest storage they do this full you know systems total solution test so when a customer that brings it into the environment it's it's been fully tested completely NM by brocade and hitachi and then to Hugh's point it's it also then works its backward compatible with everything in the environment nothing's going to you know that nothing will ever break but you know so much time and effort is put into making sure everything runs to seamless as possible because again you have to think about the environments that we're in all right those from mission-critical big environments they got to solve some serious problems they're not up for science projects they're not for risk right yes they have to advance the technology but it's got it done be done in a way that a mitigator essence done a responsible way and that's where I think when you bring their storage and our network together as well as their servers right we have our technology part of their server solutions as well you get some very compelling solutions all right well congratulations to both of you and also to the team's I'm sure there was a lot of work that went up into this day and it's always a relief to get here so thanks for stopping by and sharing the story thank you absolutely right with you and Jack I'm chef Rick you're watching the Q's the cube conversation from Palo Alto thanks for watching we'll see you next time

(upbeat music) >> For decades the technology industry had marched the cadence of Moore's law. It was a familiar pattern. System OEMs would design in the next generation of Intel microprocessors, every couple of years or so maybe bump up the memory ranges periodically and the supporting hardware would kind of go along for the ride, upgrading its performance and bandwidth. System designers then they might beef up the cache, maybe throwing some more spinning disc spindles at the equation to create a balanced environment. And this was pretty predictable and consistent in the pattern and was reasonably straightforward compared to is challenges. This has all changed. The confluence of cloud, distributed global networks, the diversity of applications, AI, machine learning and the massive growth of data outside of the data center requires new architectures to keep up. As we've reported the traditional Moore's Law curve is flattening. And along with that we've seen new packages with alternative processors like GPUs, NPUs, accelerators and the like and the rising importance of supporting hardware to offload tasks like storage and security. And it's created a massive challenge to connect all these components together, the storage, the memories and all of the enabling hardware and do so securely at very low latency at scale and of course, cost effectively. This is the topic of today's segment. The shift from a world that is CPU centric to one where the connectivity of the various hardware components is where much of the innovation is occurring. And to talk about that, there is no company who knows more about out this topic than Broadcom. And with us today is Jas Tremblay, who is general manager, data center solutions group at Broadcom. Jas, welcome to theCUBE. >> Hey Dave, thanks for having me, really appreciate it. >> Yeah, you bet. Now Broadcom is a company that a lot of people might not know about. I mean, but the vast majority of the internet traffic flows through Broadcom products. (chuckles) Like pretty much all of it. It's a company with trailing 12 month revenues of nearly 29 billion and a 240 billion market cap. Jas, what else should people know about Broadcom? >> Well, Dave, 99% of the internet traffic goes through Broadcom silicon or devices. And I think what people are not often aware of is how breadth it is. It starts with the devices, phones and tablets that use our Wi-Fi technology or RF filters. And then those connect to access points either at home, at work or public access points using our Wi-Fi technology. And if you're working from home, you're using a residential or broadband gateway and that uses Broadcom technology also. From there you go to access networks, core networks and eventually you'll work your way into the data center, all connected by Broadcom. So really we're at the heart of enabling this connectivity ecosystem and we're at the core of it, we're a technology company. We invest about 5 billion a year in R&D. And as you were saying our last year we achieved 27.5 billion of revenue. And our mission is really to connect the ecosystem to enable what you said, this transformation around the data-centric world. >> So talk about your scope of responsibility. What's your role generally and specifically with storage? >> So I've been with the company for 16 years and I head up the data center solutions group which includes three product franchises PCA fabric, storage connectivity and Broadcom ethernet nics. So my charter, my team's charter is really server connectivity inside the data center. >> And what specifically is Broadcom doing in storage, Jas? >> So it's been quite a journey. Over the past eight years we've made a series of acquisition and built up a pretty impressive storage portfolio. This first started with LSI and that's where I came from. And the team here came from LSI that had two product franchises around storage. The first one was server connectivity, HBA raid, expanders for SSDs and HDDs. The second product group was actually chips that go inside the hard drives. So SOCs and pre amps. So that was an acquisition that we made and actually that's how I came into the Broadcom group through LSI. The next acquisition we made was PLX, the industry's leader in PCIe fabrics. They'd been doing PCIe switches for about 15 years. We acquired the company and really saw an acceleration in the requirements for NVMe attached and AI ML fabrics, very specialized, low latency fabrics. After that, we acquired a large system and software company, Brocade, and Dave if you recall, Brocade they're the market leader in fiber channel switching, this is where if you're financial or government institution you want to build a mission critical, ultra secure really best in class storage network. Following Brocade acquisition we acquired Emulex that is now the number one provider of fiber channel adapters inside servers. And the last acquisition for this puzzle was actually Broadcom where Avago acquired Broadcom and took on the Broadcom name. And there we acquired ethernet switching capabilities and ethernet adapters that go into storage servers or external storage systems. So with all this it's been quite the journey to build up this portfolio. We're number one in each of these storage product categories. And we now have four divisions that are focused on storage connectivity. >> That's quite remarkable when you think about it. I mean, I know all these companies that you were talking about and they were very quality companies but they were kind of bespoke in the fact that you had the vision to kind of connect the dots and now take responsibility for that integration. We're going to talk about what that means in terms of competitive advantage, but I wonder if we could zoom out and maybe you could talk about the key storage challenges and elaborate a little bit on why connectivity is now so important. Like what are the trends that are driving that shift that we talked about earlier from a CPU centric world to one that's connectivity centric? >> I think at Broadcom, we recognize the importance of storage and storage connectivity. And if you look at data centers whether it be private, public cloud or hybrid data centers, they're getting inundated with data. If you look at the digital universe it's growing at about 23% a day. So over a course of four to five years you're doubling the amount of new information and that poses really two key challenges for the infrastructure. The first one is you have to take all this data and for a good chunk of it, you have to store it, be able to access it and protect it. The second challenge is you actually have to go and analyze and process this data and doing this at scale that's the key challenge and what we're seeing these data centers getting a tsunami of data. And historically they've been CPU centric architectures. And what that means is the CPU's at the heart of the data center. And a lot of the workloads are processed by software running on the CPU. We believe that we're currently transforming the architecture from CPU centric to connectivity centric. And what we mean by connectivity centric is you architect your data center thinking about the connectivity first. And the goal of the connectivity is to use all the components inside the data center, the memory, the spinning media, the flash storage, the networking, the specialized accelerators, the FPGA all these elements and use them for what they're best at to process all this data. And the goal Dave is really to drive down power and deliver the performance so that we can achieve all the innovation we want inside the data centers. So it's really a shift from CPU centric to bringing in more specialized components and architecting the connectivity inside the data center to help. We think that's a really important part. >> So you have this need for connectivity at scale, you mentioned, and you're dealing with massive, massive amounts of data. I mean, we're going to look back to the last decade and say, oh, you've seen nothing compared to when we get to 2030, but at the same time you have to control costs. So what are the technical challenges to achieving that vision? >> So it's really challenging. It's not that complex to build up faster, bigger solution, if you have no cost or power budget. And really the key challenges that our team is facing working with customers is first, I'd say it's architectural challenges. So we would all like to have one fabric that aim to connect all the devices and bring us all the characteristics that we need. But the reality is, we can't do that. So you need distinct fabrics inside the data center and you need them to work together. You'll need an ethernet backbone. In some cases, you'll need a fiber channel network. In some cases, you'll need a small fabric for thousands or hundreds of thousands of HDDs. You will need PCIe fabrics for AI ML servers. And one of the key architectural challenges is which fabric do you use when and how do you develop these fabrics to meet their purpose built needs. That's one thing. The second architectural challenge, Dave is what I challenge my team with is example, how do I double bandwidth while reducing net power, double bandwidth, reducing net power? How do I take a storage controller and increase the IOPS by 10X and will allocate only 50% more power budget? So that equation requires tremendous innovation. And that's really what we focus on and power is becoming more and more important in that equation. So you've got decisions from an architecture perspective as to which fabric to use. You've got this architectural challenge around we need to innovate and do things smarter, better, to drive down power while delivering more performance. Then if you take those things together the problem statement becomes more complex. So you've had these silicon devices with complex firmware on them that need to inter-operate with multiple devices. They're getting more and more complex. So there's execution challenges and what we need to do. And what we're we're investing to do is shift left quality. So to do these complex devices that they come out time to market with high quality. And one of the key things Dave that we've invested in is emulation of the environment before you tape out your silicon. So effectively taking the application software, running it on an emulation environment, making sure that works, running your tests before you tape out and that ensures quality silicon. So it's challenging, but the team loves challenges. And that's kind of what we're facing, on one hand architectural challenges, on the other hand a new level of execution challenges. >> So you're compressing the time to final tape out versus maybe traditional techniques. And then, you mentioned architecture, am I right Jas that you're essentially from an architectural standpoint trying to minimize the... 'cause your latency's so important you're trying to minimize the amount of data that you have to move around and actually bringing compute to the data. Is that the right way to think about it? >> Well, I think that there's multiple parts of the problem. One of them is you need to do more data transactions, example data protection with rate algorithms. We need to do millions of transactions per second. And the only way to achieve this with the minimal power impact is to hardware accelerate these. That's one piece of investment. The other investment is, you're absolutely right, Dave. So it's shuffling the data around the data center. So in the data center in some cases you need to have multiple pieces of the puzzle, multiple ingredients processing the same data at the same time and you need advanced methodologies to share the data and avoid moving it all over the data center. So that's another big piece of investment that we're focused on. >> So let's stay on that because I see this as disruptive. You talk about spending $5 billion a year in R&D and talk a little bit more about the disruptive technologies or the supportive technologies that you're introducing specifically to support this vision. >> So let's break it down in a couple big industry problems that our team is focused on. So the first one is I'll take an enterprise workload database. If you want the fastest running database you want to utilize local storage and NVMe based drives and you need to protect that data. And raid is the mechanism of choice to protect your data in local environments. And there what we need to do is really just do the transactions a lot faster. Historically the storage has been a bit of a bottleneck in these types of applications. So example our newest generation product. We're doubling the bandwidth, increasing IOPS by four X, but more importantly we're accelerating raid rebuilds by 50X. And that's an important Dave, if you are using a database in some cases, you limit the size of that database based on how fast you can do those rebuilds. So this 50X acceleration in rebuilds is something we're getting a lot of good feedback on for customers. The last metric we're really focused on is write latency. So how fast can the CPU send the write to the storage connectivity subsystem and committed to drives? And we're improving that by 60X generation over generation. So we're talking fully loaded latency, 10 microseconds. So from an enterprise workload it's about data protection, much, much faster using NVMe drives. That's one big problem. The other one is if you look at Dave YouTube, Facebook, TikTok the amount of user generated content specifically video content that they're producing on an hour by hour basis is mind boggling. And the hyperscale customers are really counting on us to help them scale the connectivity of hundreds of thousands of hard drive to store and access all that data in a very reliable way. So there we're leading the industry in the transition to 24 gig SaaS and multi actuator drives. Third big problem is around AI ML servers. So these are some of the highest performance servers, that they basically need super low latency connectivity between GPGPUs, networking, NVMe drives, CPUs and orchestrate that all together. And the fabric of choice for that is PCIe fabric. So here, we're talking about 115 nanosecond latency in a PCIe fabric, fully nonblocking, very reliable. And here we're helping the industry transition from PCA gen four to PCIe gen five. And the last piece is okay, I've got a AI ML server, I have a storage system with hard drives or a storage server in the enterprise space. All these devices, systems need to be connected to the ethernet backbone. And my team is heavily investing in ethernet mix transitioning to 100 gig, 200 gig, 400 gig and putting capabilities optimized for storage workloads. So those are kind of the four big things that we're focused on at the industry level, from a connectivity perspective, Dave. >> And that makes a lot of sense and really resonates particularly as we have that shift from a CPU centric to a connectivity centric. And the other thing you said, I mean, you're talking about 50X rate rebuild times, a couple of things you know in storage is if you ask the question, what happens when something goes wrong? 'Cause it's all about recovery, you can't lose data. And the other thing you mentioned is write latency, which has always been the problem. Okay, reads, I can read out cache but ultimately you've got to get it to where it's persisted. So some real technical challenges there that you guys are dealing with. >> Absolutely, Dave. And these are the type of problems that gets the engineers excited. Give them really tough technical problems to go solve. >> I wonder if we could take a couple of examples or an example of scaling with a large customer, for instance obviously hyperscalers or take a company like Dell. I mean they're big company, big customer. Take us through that. >> So we use the word scale a lot at Broadcom. We work with some of the industry leaders and data centers and OEMs and scale means different things to them. So example, if I'm working with a hyperscaler that is getting inundated with data and they need half a million storage controllers to store all that data, well their scale problem is, can you deliver? And Dave, you know how much of a hot topic that is these days. So they need a partner that can scale from a delivery perspective. But if I take a company like example Dell that's very focused on storage, from storage servers, their acquisition of EMC. They have a very broad portfolio of data center storage offerings and scale to them from a connected by Broadcom perspective means that you need to have the investment scale to meet their end to end requirements. All the way from a low end storage connectivity solution for booting a server all the way up to a very high end all flash array or high density HDD system. So they want a company a partner that can invest and has a scale to invest to meet their end to end requirements. Second thing is their different products are unique and have different requirements and you need to adapt your collaboration model. So example, some products within Dell portfolio might say, I just want a storage adaptor, plug it in, the operating system will automatically recognize it. I need this turnkey. I want to do minimal investment, is not an area of high differentiation for me. At the other end of the spectrum they may have applications where they want deep integration with their management and our silicon tools so that they can deliver the highest quality, highest performance to their customers. So they need a partner that can scale from an R&D investment perspective from silicon software and hardware perspective but they also need a company that can scale from support and business model perspective and give them the flexibility that their end customers need. So Dell is a great company to work with. We have a long lasting relationship with them and the relationship is very deep in some areas, example server storage, and is also quite broad. They are adopters of the vast majority of our storage connectivity products. >> Well, and I imagine it was. Well I want to talk about the uniqueness of Broadcom again, I'm in awe of the fact that somebody had the vision, you guys, your team obviously your CEO was one of the visionaries of the industry, had the sense to look out and say, okay, we can put these pieces together. So I would imagine a company like Dell, they're able to consolidate their vendor their supplier base and push you for integration and innovation. How unique is the Broadcom model? What's compelling to your customer about that model? >> So I think what's unique from a storage perspective is the breadth of the portfolio and also the scale at which we can invest. So if you look at some of the things we talked about from a scale perspective how data centers throughout the world are getting inundated with data, Dave, they need help. And we need to equip them with cutting edge technology to increase performance, drive down power, improve reliability. So they need partners that in each of the product categories that you partner with them on, we can invest with scale. So that's, I think one of the first things. The second thing is, if you look at this connectivity centric data center you need multiple types of fabric. And whether it be cloud customers or large OEMs they are organizing themselves to be able to look at things holistically. They're no longer product company, they're very data center architecture companies. And so it's good for them to have a partner that can look across product groups across divisions says, okay this is the innovation we need to bring to market. These are the problems we need to go solve and they really appreciate that. And I think the last thing is a flexible business model. Within example, my division, we offer different business models, different engagement and collaboration models with technology. But there's another division that if you want to innovate at the silicon level and build custom silicon for you like many of the hyperscalers or other companies are doing that division is just focus on that. So I feel like Broadcom is unique from a storage perspective it's ability to innovate, breadth of portfolio and the flexibility in the collaboration model to help our customers solve their customers problems. >> So you're saying you can deal with merchant products slash open products or you can do high customization. Where does software differentiation fit into this model? >> So it's actually one of the most important elements. I think a lot of our customers take it for granted that will take care of the silicon will anticipate the requirements and deliver the performance that they need, but from a software, firmware, driver, utilities that is where a lot of differentiation lies. Some cases we'll offer an SDK model where customers can build their entire applications on top of that. In some cases they want to complete turnkey solution where you take technology, integrate it into server and the operating system recognizes it and you have outer box drivers from Broadcom. So we need to offer them that flexibility because their needs are quite broad there. >> So last question, what's the future of the business look like to Jas Tremblay? Give us your point of view on that. >> Well, it's fun. I got to tell you, Dave, we're having a great time. I've got a great team, they're the world's experts on storage connectivity and working with them is a pleasure. And we've got a rich, great set of customers that are giving us cool problems to go solve and we're excited about it. So I think this is really, with the acceleration of all this digital transformation that we're seeing, we're excited, we're having fun. And I think there's a lot of problems to be solved. And we also have a responsibility. I think the ecosystem and the industry is counting on our team to deliver the innovation from a storage connectivity perspective. And I'll tell you, Dave, we're having fun. It's great but we take that responsibility pretty seriously. >> Jas, great stuff. I really appreciate you laying all that out. Very important role you guys are playing. You have a really unique perspective. Thank you. >> Thank you, Dave. >> And thank you for watching. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE and we'll see you next time.

>>Earlier this week, Oracle announced the new X nine M generation of exit data platforms for its cloud at customer and legacy on prem deployments. And the company made some enhancements to its zero data loss, recovery appliance. CLRA something we've covered quite often since its announcement. We had a video exclusive with one Louisa who was the executive vice president of mission critical database technologies. At Oracle. We did that on the day of the announcement who got his take on it. And I asked Oracle, Hey, can we get some subject matter experts, some technical gurus to dig deeper and get more details on the architecture because we want to better understand some of the performance claims that Oracle is making. And with me today is Susan. Who's the vice president of product management for exit data database machine. Bob tome is the vice president of product management for exit data cloud at customer. And Tim chin is the senior director of product management for DRA folks. Welcome to this power panel and welcome to the cube. >>Thank you, Dave. >>Can we start with you? Um, Juan and I, we talked about the X nine M a that Oracle just launched a couple of days ago. Maybe you could give us a recap, some of the, what do we need to know? The, especially I'm interested in the big numbers once more so we can just understand the claims you're making around this announcement. We can dig into that. >>Absolutely. They've very excited to do that. In a nutshell, we have the world's fastest database machine for both LTP and analytics, and we made that even faster, not just simply faster, but for all LPP we made it 70% faster and we took the oil PPV ops all the way up to 27.6 million read IOPS and mind you, this is being measured at the sequel layer for analytics. We did pretty much the same thing, an 87% increase in analytics. And we broke through that one terabyte per second barrier, absolutely phenomenal stuff. Now, while all those numbers by themselves are fascinating, here's something that's even more fascinating in my mind, 80% of the product development work for extra data, X nine M was done during COVID, which means all of us were remote. And what that meant was extreme levels of teamwork between the development teams, manufacturing teams, procurement teams, software teams, the works. I mean, everybody coming together as one to deliver this product, I think it's kudos to everybody who touched this product in one way or the other extremely proud of it. >>Thank you for making that point. And I'm laughing because it's like you the same bolt of a mission-critical OLT T O LTP performance. You had the world record, and now you're saying, adding on top of that. Um, but, okay. But, so there are customers that still, you know, build the builder and they're trying to build their own exit data. What they do is they buy their own servers and storage and networking components. And I do that when I talk to them, they'll say, look, they want to maintain their independence. They don't want to get locked in Oracle, or maybe they believe it's cheaper. You know, maybe they're sort of focused on the, the, the CapEx the CFO has him in the headlock, or they might, sometimes they talk about, they want a platform that can support, you know, horizontal, uh, apps, maybe not Oracle stuff, or, or maybe they're just trying to preserve their job. I don't know, but why shouldn't these customers roll their own and why can't they get similar results just using standard off the shelf technologies? >>Great question. It's going to require a little involved answer, but let's just look at the statistics to begin with. Oracle's exit data was first productized in Delaware to the market in 2008. And at that point in time itself, we had industry leadership across a number of metrics. Today, we are at the 11th generation of exit data, and we are way far ahead than the competition, like 50 X, faster hundred X faster, right? I mean, we are talking orders of magnitude faster. How did we achieve this? And I think the answer to your question is going to lie in what are we doing at the engineering level to make these magical numbers come to, uh, for right first, it starts with the hardware. Oracle has its own hardware server design team, where we are embedding in capabilities towards increasing performance, reliability, security, and scalability down at the hardware level, the database, which is a user level process talks to the hardware directly. >>The only reason we can do this is because we own the source code for pretty much everything in between, starting with the database, going into the operating system, the hypervisor. And as I, as I just mentioned the hardware, and then we also worked with the former elements on this entire thing, the key to making extra data, the best Oracle database machine lies in that engineering, where we take the operating system, make it fit like tongue and groove into, uh, a bit with the opera, with the hardware, and then do the same with the database. And because we have got this deep insight into what are the workloads that are, that are running at any given point in time on the compute side of extra data, we can then do micromanagement at the software layers of how traffic flows are flowing through the entire system and do things like, you know, prioritize all PP transactions on a very specific, uh, you know, queue on the RDMA. >>We'll converse Ethan at be able to do smart scan, use the compute elements in the storage tier to be able to offload SQL processing. They call them the longer I used formats of data, extend them into flash, just a whole bunch of things that we've been doing over the last 12 years, because we have this deep engineering, you can try to cobble a system together, which sort of looks like an extra data. It's got a network and it's got storage, tiering compute here, but you're not going to be able to achieve anything close to what we are doing. The biggest deal in my mind, apart from the performance and the high availability is the security, because we are testing the stack top to bottom. When you're trying to build your own best of breed kind of stuff. You're not going to be able to do that because it depended on the server that had to do something and HP to do something else or Dell to do something else and a Brocade switch to do something it's not possible. We can do this, we've done it. We've proven it. We've delivered it for over a decade. End of story. For as far as I'm concerned, >>I mean, you know, at this fine, remember when Oracle purchased Sohn and I know a big part of that purchase was to get Java, but I remember saying at the time it was a brilliant acquisition. I was looking at it from a financial standpoint. I think you paid seven and a half billion for it. And it automatically, when you're, when Safra was able to get back to sort of pre acquisition margins, you got the Oracle uplift in terms of revenue multiples. So then that standpoint, it was a no brainer, but the other thing is back in the Unix days, it was like HP. Oracle was the standard. And, and in terms of all the benchmarks and performance, but even then, I'm sure you work closely with HP, but it was like to get the stuff to work together, you know, make sure that it was going to be able to recover according to your standards, but you couldn't actually do that deep engineering that you just described now earlier, Subin you, you, you, you stated that the X sign now in M you get, oh, LTP IO, IOP reads at 27 million IOPS. Uh, you got 19 microseconds latency, so pretty impressive stuff, impressive numbers. And you kind of just went there. Um, but how are you measuring these numbers versus other performance claims from your competitors? What what's, you know, are you, are you stacking the deck? Can you give you share with us there? >>Sure. So Shada incidents, we are mentioning it at the sequel layer. This is not some kind of an ion meter or a micro benchmark. That's looking at just a flash subsystem or just a persistent memory subsystem. This is measured at the compute, not doing an entire set of transactions. And how many times can you finish that? Right? So that's how it's being measured. Now. Most people cannot measure it like that because of the disparity and the number of vendors that are involved in that particular solution, right? You've got servers from vendor a and storage from vendor B, the storage network from vendor C, the operating system from vendor D. How do you tune all of these things on your own? You cannot write. I mean, there's only certain bells and whistles and knobs that are available for you to tune, but so that's how we are measuring the 19 microseconds is at the sequel layer. >>What that means is this a real world customer running a real world. Workload is guaranteed to get that kind of a latency. None of the other suppliers can make that claim. This is the real world capability. Now let's take a look at that 19 microseconds we boast and we say, Hey, we had an order of magnitude two orders of magnitude faster than everybody else. When it comes down to latency. And one things that this is we'll do our magic while it is magical. The magic is really grounded in deep engineering and deep physics and science. The way we implement this is we, first of all, put the persistent memory tier in the storage. And that way it's shared across all of the database instances that are running on the compute tier. Then we have this ultra fast hundred gigabit ethernet RDMA over converged ethernet fabric. >>With this, what we have been able to do is at the hardware level between two network interface guides that are resident on that fabric, we create paths that enable high priority low-latency communication between any two end points on that fabric. And then given the fact that we implemented persistent memory in the storage tier, what that means is with that persistent memory, sitting on the memory bus of the processor in the storage tier, we can perform it remote direct memory access operation from the compute tier to memory address spaces in the persistent memory of the storage tier, without the involvement of the operating system on either end, no context, switches, knowing processing latencies and all of that. So it's hardware to hardware, communication with security built in, which is immutable, right? So all of this is built into the hardware itself. So there's no software involved. You perform a read, the data comes back 19 microseconds, boom. End of story. >>Yeah. So that's key to my next topic, which is security because if you're not getting the OSTP involved and that's, you know, very oftentimes if I can get access to the OSTP, I get privileged. Like I can really take advantage of that as a hacker. But so, but, but before I go there, like Oracle talks about, it's got a huge percentage of the Gayety 7% of the fortune 100 companies run their mission, critical workloads on exit data. But so that's not only important to the companies, but they're serving consumer me, right. I'm going to my ATM or I'm swiping my credit card. And Juan mentioned that you use a layered security model. I just sort of inferred anyway, that, that having this stuff in hardware and not have to involve access to the OS actually contributes to better security. But can you describe this in a bit more detail? >>So yeah, what Brian was talking about was this layered security set differently. It is defense in depth, and that's been our mantra and philosophy for several years now. So what does that entail? As I mentioned earlier, we designed our own servers. We do this for performance. We also do it for security. We've got a number of features that are built into the hardware that make sure that we've got immutable areas of form where we, for instance, let me give you this example. If you take an article x86 server, just a standard x86 server, not even express in the form of an extra data system, even if you had super user privileges sitting on top of an operating system, you cannot modify the bias as a user, as a super user that has to be done through the system management network. So we put gates and protection modes, et cetera, right in the hardware itself. >>Now, of course the security of that hardware goes all the way back to the fact that we own the design. We've got a global supply chain, but we are making sure that our supply chain is protected monitored. And, uh, we also protect the last mile of the supply chain, which is we can detect if there's been any tampering of form where that's been, uh, that's occurred in the hardware while the hardware shipped from our factory to the customers, uh, docks. Right? So we, we know that something's been tampered with the moment it comes back up on the customer. So that's on the hardware. Let's take a look at the operating system, Oracle Linux, we own article the next, the entire source code. And what shipping on exit data is the unbreakable enterprise Connell, the carnal and the operating system itself have been reduced in terms of eliminating all unnecessary packages from that operating system bundle. >>When we deliver it in the form of the data, let's put some real numbers on that. A standard Oracle Linux or a standard Linux distribution has got about 5,000 plus packages. These things include like print servers, web servers, a whole bunch of stuff that you're not absolutely going to use at all on exit data. Why ship those? Because the moment you ship more stuff than you need, you are increasing the, uh, the target, uh, that attackers can get to. So on AXA data, there are only 701 packages. So compare this 5,413 packages on a standard Linux, 701 and exit data. So we reduced the attack surface another aspect on this, when we, we do our own STIG, uh, ASCAP benchmarking. If you take a standard Linux and you run that ASCAP benchmark, you'll get about a 30% pass score on exit data. It's 90 plus percent. >>So which means we are doing the heavy lifting of doing the security checks on the operating system before it even goes out to the factory. And then you layer on Oracle database, transparent data encryption. We've got all kinds of protection capabilities, data reduction, being able to do an authentication on a user ID basis, being able to log it, being able to track it, being able to determine who access the system when and log back. So it's basically defend at every single layer. And then of course the customer's responsibility. It doesn't just stop by getting this high secure, uh, environment. They have to do their own job of them securing their network perimeters, securing who has physical access to the system and everything else. So it's a giant responsibility. And as you mentioned, you know, you as a consumer going to an ATM machine and withdrawing money, you would do 200. You don't want to see 5,000 deducted from your account. And so all of this is made possible with exited and the amount of security focus that we have on the system >>And the bank doesn't want to see it the other way. So I'm geeking out here in the cube, but I got one more question for you. Juan talked about X nine M best system for database consolidation. So I, I kinda, you know, it was built to handle all LTP analytics, et cetera. So I want to push you a little bit on this because I can make an argument that, that this is kind of a Swiss army knife versus the best screwdriver or the best knife. How do you respond to that concern and how, how do you respond to the concern that you're putting too many eggs in one basket? Like, what do you tell people to fear you're consolidating workloads to save money, but you're also narrowing the blast radius. Isn't that a problem? >>Very good question there. So, yes. So this is an interesting problem, and it is a balancing act. As you correctly pointed out, you want to have the economies of scale that you get when you consolidate more and more databases, but at the same time, when something happens when hardware fails or there's an attack, you want to make sure that you have business continuity. So what we are doing on exit data, first of all, as I mentioned, we are designing our own hardware and a building in reliability into the system and at the hardware layer, that means having redundancy, redundancy for fans, power supplies. We even have the ability to isolate faulty cores on the processor. And we've got this a tremendous amount of sweeping that's going on by the system management stack, looking for problem areas and trying to contain them as much as possible within the hardware itself. >>Then you take it up to the software layer. We used our reliability to then build high availability. What that implies is, and that's fundamental to the exited architecture is this entire scale out model, our based system, you cannot go smaller than having two database nodes and three storage cells. Why is that? That's because you want to have high availability of your database instances. So if something happens to one server hardware, software, whatever you got another server that's ready to take on that load. And then with real application clusters, you can then switch over between these two, why three storage cells. We want to make sure that when you have got duplicate copies of data, because you at least want to have one additional copy of your data in case something happens to the disc that has got that only that one copy, right? So the reason we have got three is because then you can Stripe data across these three different servers and deliver high availability. >>Now you take that up to the rack level. A lot of things happen. Now, when you're really talking about the blast radius, you want to make sure that if something physically happens to this data center, that you have infrastructure that's available for it to function for business continuity, we maintain, which is why we have the maximum availability architecture. So with components like golden gate and active data guard, and other ways by which we can keep to this distant systems in sync is extremely critical for us to deliver these high availability paths that make, uh, the whole equation about how many eggs in one basket versus containing the containment of the blast radius. A lot easier to grapple with because business continuity is something which is paramount to us. I mean, Oracle, the enterprise is running on Xcel data. Our high value cloud customers are running on extra data. And I'm sure Bob's going to talk a lot more about the cloud piece of it. So I think we have all the tools in place to, to go after that optimization on how many eggs in one basket was his blast radius. It's a question of working through the solution and the criticalities of that particular instance. >>Okay, great. Thank you for that detailed soup. We're going to give you a break. You go take a breath, get a, get a drink of water. Maybe we'll come back to you. If we have time, let's go to Bob, Bob, Bob tome, X data cloud at customer X nine M earlier this week, Juan said kinda, kinda cocky. What we're bothering, comparing exit data against your cloud, a customer against outpost or Azure stack. Can you elaborate on, on why that is? >>Sure. Or you, you know, first of all, I want to say, I love, I love baby. We go south posts. You know why it affirms everything that we've been doing for the past four and a half years with clouded customer. It affirms that cloud is running that running cloud services in customers' data center is a large and important market, large and important enough that AWS felt that the need provide these, um, you know, these customers with an AWS option, even if it only supports a sliver of the functionality that they provide in the public cloud. And that's what they're doing. They're giving it a sliver and they're not exactly leading with the best they could offer. So for that reason, you know, that reason alone, there's really nothing to compare. And so we, we give them the benefit of the doubt and we actually are using their public cloud solutions. >>Another point most customers are looking to deploy to Oracle cloud, a customer they're looking for a per performance, scalable, secure, and highly available platform to deploy. What's offered their most critical databases. Most often they are Oracle databases does outposts for an Oracle database. No. Does outpost run a comparable database? Not really does outposts run Amazon's top OTP and analytics database services, the ones that are top in their cloud public cloud. No, that we couldn't find anything that runs outposts that's worth comparing against X data clouded customer, which is why the comparisons are against their public cloud products. And even with that still we're looking at numbers like 50 times a hundred times slower, right? So then there's the Azure stack. One of the key benefits to, um, you know, that customers love about the cloud that I think is really under, appreciated it under appreciated is really that it's a single vendor solution, right? You have a problem with cloud service could be I as pass SAS doesn't matter. And there's a single vendor responsible for fixing your issue as your stack is missing big here, because they're a multi-vendor cloud solution like AWS outposts. Also, they don't exactly offer the same services in the cloud that they offer on prem. And from what I hear, it can be a management nightmare requiring specialized administrators to keep that beast running. >>Okay. So, well, thanks for that. I'll I'll grant you that, first of all, granted that Oracle was the first with that same, same vision. I always tell people that, you know, if they say, well, we were first I'm like, well, actually, no, Oracle's first having said that, Bob and I hear you that, that right now, outpost is a one Datto version. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but neither did your cloud when you first launched your cloud. So let's, let's let it bake for a while and we'll come back in a couple of years and see how things compare. So if you're up for it. Yeah. >>Just remember that we're still in the oven too. Right. >>Okay. All right. Good. I love it. I love the, the chutzpah. One also talked about Deutsche bank. Um, and that, I, I mean, I saw that Deutsche bank announcement, how they're working with Oracle, they're modernizing their infrastructure around database. They're building other services around that and kind of building their own sort of version of a cloud for their customers. How does exit data cloud a customer fit in to that whole Deutsche bank deal? Is, is this solution unique to Deutsche bank? Do you see other organizations adopting clouded customer for similar reasons and use cases? >>Yeah, I'll start with that. First. I want to say that I don't think Georgia bank is unique. They want what all customers want. They want to be able to run their most important workloads. The ones today running their data center on exit eight as a non other high-end systems in a cloud environment where they can benefit from things like cloud economics, cloud operations, cloud automations, but they can't move to public cloud. They need to maintain the service levels, the performance, the scalability of the security and the availability that their business has. It has come to depend on most clouds can't provide that. Although actually Oracle's cloud can our public cloud Ken, because our public cloud does run exit data, but still even with that, they can't do it because as a bank, they're subject to lots of rules and regulations, they cannot move their 40 petabytes of data to a point outside the control of their data center. >>They have thousands of interconnected databases, right? And applications. It's like a rat's nest, right? And this is similar many large customers have this problem. How do you move that to the cloud? You can move it piecemeal. Uh, I'm going to move these apps and, you know, not move those apps. Um, but suddenly ended up with these things where some pieces are up here. Some pieces are down here. The thing just dies because of the long latency over a land connection, it just doesn't work. Right. So you can also shut it down. Let's shut it down on, on Friday and move everything all at once. Unfortunately, when you're looking at it, a state decides that most customers have, you're not going to be able to, you're going to be down for a month, right? Who can, who can tolerate that? So it's a big challenge and exited cloud a customer let's then move to the cloud without losing control of their data. >>And without unhappy having to untangle that thousands of interconnected databases. So, you know, that's why these customers are choosing X data, clouded customer. More importantly, it sets them up for the future with exited cloud at customer, they can run not just in their data center, but they could also run in public cloud, adjacent sites, giving them a path to moving some work out of the data center and ultimately into the public cloud. You know, as I said, they're not unique. Other banks are watching and some are acting and it's not just banks. Just last week. Telefonica telco in Spain announced their intent to migrate the bulk of their Oracle databases to excavate a cloud at customer. This will be the key cloud platform running. They're running in their data center to support both new services, as well as mission critical and operational systems. And one last important point exited cloud a customer can also run autonomous database. Even if customers aren't today ready to adopt this. A lot of them are interested in it. They see it as a key piece of the puzzle moving forward in the future and customers know that they can easily start to migrate to autonomous in the future as they're ready. And this of course is going to drive additional efficiencies and additional cost savings. >>So, Bob, I got a question for you because you know, Oracle's playing both sides, right? You've got a cloud, you know, you've got a true public cloud now. And, and obviously you have a huge on-premise state. When I talk to companies that don't own a cloud, uh, whether it's Dell or HPE, Cisco, et cetera, they have made, they make the point. And I agree with them by the way that the world is hybrid, not everything's going into the, to the cloud. However, I had a lot of respect for folks at Amazon as well. And they believed long-term, they'll say this, they've got them on record of saying this, that they believe long-term ultimately all workloads are going to be running in the cloud. Now, I guess it depends on how you define the cloud. The cloud is expanding and all that other stuff. But my question to you, because again, you kind of on both sides, here are our hybrid solutions like cloud at customer. Do you see them as a stepping stone to the cloud, or is cloud in your data center, sort of a continuous sort of permanent, you know, essential play >>That. That's a great question. As I recall, people debated this a few years back when we first introduced clouded customer. And at that point, some people I'm talking about even internal Oracle, right? Some people saw this as a stop gap measure to let people leverage cloud benefits until they're really ready for the public cloud. But I think over the past four and a half years, the changing the thinking has changed a little bit on this. And everyone kind of agrees that clouded customer may be a stepping stone for some customers, but others see that as the end game, right? Not every workload can run in the public cloud, not at least not given the, um, you know, today's regulations and the issues that are faced by many of these regulated industries. These industries move very, very slowly and customers are content to, and in many cases required to retain complete control of their data and they will be running under their control. They'll be running with that data under their control and the data center for the foreseeable future. >>Oh, I got another question for kind of just, if I could take a little tangent, cause the other thing I hear from the, on the, the, the on-prem don't own, the cloud folks is it's actually cheaper to run in on-prem, uh, because they're getting better at automation, et cetera. When you get the exact opposite from the cloud guys, they roll their eyes. Are you kidding me? It's way cheaper to run it in the cloud, which is more cost-effective is it one of those? It depends, Bob. >>Um, you know, the great thing about numbers is you can make, you can, you can kind of twist them to show anything that you want, right? That's a have spreadsheet. Can I, can, I can sell you on anything? Um, I think that there's, there's customers who look at it and they say, oh, on-premise sheet is cheaper. And there's customers who look at it and say, the cloud is cheaper. If you, um, you know, there's a lot of ways that you may incur savings in the cloud. A lot of it has to do with the cloud economics, the ability to pay for what you're using and only what you're using. If you were to kind of, you know, if you, if you size something for your peak workload and then, you know, on prem, you probably put a little bit of a buffer in it, right? >>If you size everything for that, you're gonna find that you're paying, you know, this much, right? All the time you're paying for peak workload all the time with the cloud, of course, we support scaling up, scaling down. We supply, we support you're paying for what you use and you can scale up and scale down. That's where the big savings is now. There's also additional savings associated with you. Don't have the cloud vendors like work. Well, we manage that infrastructure for you. You no longer have to worry about it. Um, we have a lot of automation, things that you use to either, you know, probably what used to happen is you used to have to spend hours and hours or years or whatever, scripting these things yourselves. We now have this automation to do it. We have, um, you eyes that make things ad hoc things, as simple as point and click and, uh, you know, that eliminates errors. And, and it's often difficult to put a cost on those things. And I think the more enlightened customers can put a cost on all of those. So the people that were saying it's cheaper to run on prem, uh, they, they either, you know, have a very stable workload that never changes and their environment never changes, um, or more likely. They just really haven't thought through the, all the hidden costs out there. >>All right, you got some new features. Thank you for that. By the way, you got some new features in, in cloud, a customer, a what are those? Do I have to upgrade to X nine M to, to get >>All right. So, you know, we're always introducing new features for clouded customer, but two significant things that we've rolled out recently are operator access control and elastic storage expansion. As we discussed, many organizations are using Axeda cloud a customer they're attracting the cloud economics, the operational benefits, but they're required by regulations to retain control and visibility of their data, as well as any infrastructure that sits inside their data center with operator access control, enabled cloud operations, staff members must request access to a customer system, a customer, it team grants, a designated person, specific access to a specific component for a specific period of time with specific privileges, they can then kind of view audit controls in real time. And if they see something they don't like, you know, Hey, what's this guy doing? It looks like he's, he's stealing my data or doing something I don't like, boom. >>They can kill that operators, access the session, the connections, everything right away. And this gives everyone, especially customers that need to, you know, regulate remote access to their infrastructure. It gives them the confidence that they need to use exit data cloud, uh, conduct, customer service. And, and the other thing that's new is, um, elastic storage expansion. Customers could out add additional service to their system either at initial deployment or after the fact. And this really provides two important benefits. The first is that they can right size their configuration if they need only the minimum compute capacity, but they don't need the maximum number of storage servers to get that capacity. They don't need to subscribe to kind of a fixed shape. We used to have fixed shapes, I guess, with hundreds of unnecessary database cores, just to get the storage capacity, they can select a smaller system. >>And then incrementally add on that storage. The second benefit is the, is kind of key for many customers. You are at a storage, guess what you can add more. And that way, when you're out of storage, that's really important. Now they'll get to your last part of that question. Do you need a deck, a new, uh, exit aquatic customer XIM system to get these features? No they're available for all gen two exited clouded customer systems. That's really one of the best things about cloud. The service you subscribed to today just keeps getting better and better. And unless there's some technical limitation that, you know, we, and it, which is rare, most new features are available even for the oldest cloud customer systems. >>Cool. And you can bring that in on from my, my last question for you, Bob is a, another one on security. Obviously, again, we talked to Susan about this. It's a big deal. How can customer data be secure if it's in the cloud, if somebody, other than the, their own vetted employees are managing the underlying infrastructure, is is that a concern you hear a lot and how do you handle that? >>You know, it's, it's only something because a lot of these customers, they have big, you know, security people and it's their job to be concerned about that kind of stuff. And security. However, is one of the biggest, but least appreciate appreciated benefits of cloud cloud vendors, such as Oracle hire the best and brightest security experts to ensure that their clouds are secure. Something that only the largest customers can afford to do. You're a small, small shop. You're not going to be able to, you know, hire some of this expertise. So you're better off being in the cloud. Customers who are running in the Oracle cloud can also use articles, data, safe tool, which we provide, which basically lets you inspect your databases, insurance. Sure that everything is locked down and secure and your data is secure. But your question is actually a little bit different. >>It was about potential internal threats to company's data. Given the cloud vendor, not the customer's employees have access to the infrastructure that sits beneath the databases and really the first and most important thing we do to protect customers' data is we encrypt that database by default. Actually Subin listed a whole laundry list of things, but that's the one thing I want to point out. We encrypt your database. It's, you know, it's, it's encrypted. Yes. It sits on our infrastructure. Yes. Our operations persons can actually see those data files sitting on the infrastructure, but guess what? They can't see the data. The data is encrypted. All they see as kind of a big encrypted blob. Um, so they can't access the data themselves. And you know, as you'd expect, we have very tight controls over operations access to the infrastructure. They need to securely log in using mechanisms by stuff to present, prevent unauthorized access. >>And then all access is logged and suspicious. Activities are investigated, but that still may not be enough for some customers, especially the ones I mentioned earlier, the regulated industries. And that's why we offer app operator access control. As I mentioned, that gives customers complete control over the access to the infrastructure. The, when the, what ops can do, how long can they do it? Customers can monitor in real time. And if they see something they don't like they stop it immediately. Lastly, I just want to mention Oracle's data ball feature. This prevents administrators from accessing data, protecting data from road operators, robot, world operations, whether they be from Oracle or from the customer's own it staff, this database option. A lot of ball is sorry. Database ball data vault is included when running a license included service on exited clouded customer. So basically to get it with the service. Got it. >>Hi Tom. Thank you so much. It's unbelievable, Bob. I mean, we've got a lot to unpack there, but uh, we're going to give you a break now and go to Tim, Tim chin, zero data loss, recovery appliance. We always love that name. The big guy we think named it, but nobody will tell us, but we've been talking about security. There's been a lot of news around ransomware attacks. Every industry around the globe, any knucklehead with, uh, with a high school diploma could become a ransomware attack or go in the dark web, get, get ransomware as a service stick, a, put a stick in and take a piece of the VIG and hopefully get arrested. Um, with, when you think about database, how do you deal with the ransomware challenge? >>Yeah, Dave, um, that's an extremely important and timely question. Um, we are hearing this from our customers. We just talk about ha and backup strategies and ransomware, um, has been coming up more and more. Um, and the unfortunate thing that these ransoms are actually paid, um, uh, in the hope of the re you know, the, uh, the ability to access the data again. So what that means it tells me is that today's recovery solutions and processes are not sufficient to get these systems back in a reliable and timely manner. Um, and so you have to pay the ransom, right, to get, uh, to get the, even a hope of getting the data back now for databases. This can have a huge impact because we're talking about transactional workloads. And so even a compromise of just a few minutes, a blip, um, can affect hundreds or even thousands of transactions. This can literally represent hundreds of lost orders, right? If you're a big manufacturing company or even like millions of dollars worth of, uh, financial transactions in a bank. Right. Um, and that's why protecting databases at a transaction level is especially critical, um, for ransomware. And that's a huge contrast to traditional backup approaches. Okay. >>So how do you approach that? What do you, what do you do specifically for ransomware protection for the database? >>Yeah, so we have the zero data loss recovery appliance, which we announced the X nine M generation. Um, it is really the only solution in the market, which offers that transaction level of protection, which allows all transactions to be recovered with zero RPO, zero again, and this is only possible because Oracle has very innovative and unique technology called real-time redo, which captures all the transactional changes from the databases by the appliance, and then stored as well by the appliance, moreover, the appliance validates all these backups and reading. So you want to make sure that you can recover them after you've sent them, right? So it's not just a file level integrity check on a file system. That's actual database level of validation that the Oracle blocks and the redo that I mentioned can be restored and recovered as a usable database, any kind of, um, malicious attack or modification of that backup data and transmit that, or if it's even stored on the appliance and it was compromised would be immediately detected and reported by that validation. >>So this allows administrators to take action. This is removing that system from the network. And so it's a huge leap in terms of what customers can get today. The last thing I just want to point out is we call our cyber vault deployment, right? Um, a lot of customers in the industry are creating what we call air gapped environments, where they have a separate location where their backup copies are stored physically network separated from the production systems. And so this prevents ransomware for possibly infiltrating that last good copy of backups. So you can deploy recovery appliance in a cyber vault and have it synchronized at random times when the network's available, uh, to, to keep it in sync. Right. Um, so that combined with our transaction level zero data loss validation, it's a nice package and really a game changer in protecting and recovering your databases from modern day cyber threats. >>Okay, great. Thank you for clarifying that air gap piece. Cause I, there was some confusion about that. Every data protection and backup company that I know as a ransomware solution, it's like the hottest topic going, you got newer players in, in, in recovery and backup like rubric Cohesity. They raised a ton of dough. Dell has got solutions, HPE just acquired Zerto to deal with this problem. And other things IBM has got stuff. Veem seems to be doing pretty well. Veritas got a range of, of recovery solutions. They're sort of all out there. What's your take on these and their strategy and how do you differentiate? >>Yeah, it's a pretty crowded market, like you said. Um, I think the first thing you really have to keep in mind and understand that these vendors, these new and up and coming, um, uh, uh, vendors start in the copy data management, we call CDN space and they're not traditional backup recovery designed are purpose built for the purpose of CDM products is to provide these fast point in time copies for test dev non-production use, and that's a viable problem and it needs a solution. So you create these one time copy and then you create snapshots. Um, after you apply these incremental changes to that copy, and then the snapshot can be quickly restored and presented as like it's a fully populated, uh, file. And this is all done through the underlying storage of block pointers. So all of this kind of sounds really cool and modern, right? It's like new and upcoming and lots of people in the market doing this. Well, it's really not that modern because we've, we know storage, snapshot technologies has been around for years. Right. Um, what these new vendors have been doing is essentially repackaging the old technology for backup and recovery use cases and having sort of an easier to use automation interface wrapped around it. >>Yeah. So you mentioned a copy data management, uh, last year, active FIO. Uh, they started that whole space from what I recall at one point there, they value more than a billion dollars. They were acquired by Google. Uh, and as I say, they kind of created that, that category. So fast forward a little bit, nine months a year, whatever it's been, do you see that Google active FIO offer in, in, in customer engagements? Is that something that you run into? >>We really don't. Um, yeah, it was really popular and known some years ago, but we really don't hear about it anymore. Um, after the acquisition, you look at all the collateral and the marketing, they are really a CDM and backup solution exclusively for Google cloud use cases. And they're not being positioned as for on premises or any other use cases outside of Google cloud. That's what, 90, 90 plus percent of your market there that isn't addressable now by Activia. So really we don't see them in any of our engagements at this time. >>I want to come back and push it a little bit, uh, on some of the tech that you said, it's kind of really not that modern. Uh, I mean it's, if they certainly position it as modern, a lot of the engineers who are building there's new sort of backup and recovery capabilities came from the hyperscalers, whether it's copy data management, you know, the bot mock quote, unquote modern backup recovery, it's kind of a data management, sort of this nice all in one solution seems pretty compelling. How does recovery clients specifically stack up? You know, a lot of people think it's a niche product for, for really high end use cases. Is that fair? How do you see a town? >>Yeah. Yeah. So it's, I think it's so important to just, you know, understand, again, the fundamental use of this technology is to create data copies for test W's right. Um, and that's really different than operational backup recovery in which you must have this ability to do full and point in time recoverability in any production outage or Dr. Situation. Um, and then more importantly, after you recover and your applications are back in business, that performance must continue to meet servers levels as before. And when you look at a CDM product, um, and you restore a snapshot and you say with that product and the application is brought up on that restored snapshot, what happens or your production application is now running on actual read rideable snapshots on backup storage. Remember they don't restore all the data back to the production, uh, level stores. They're restoring it as a snapshot okay. >>Onto their storage. And so you have a huge difference in performance. Now running these applications where they instantly recovered, if you will database. So to meet these true operational requirements, you have to fully restore the files to production storage period. And so recovery appliance was first and foremost designed to accomplish this. It's an operational recovery solution, right? We accomplish that. Like I mentioned, with this real-time transaction protection, we have incremental forever backup strategies. So that you're just taking just the changes every day. And you, you can create these virtual full backups that are quickly restored, fully restored, if you will, at 24 terabytes an hour. And we validate and document that performance very clearly in our website. And of course we provide that continuous recovery validation for all the backups that are stored on the system. So it's, um, it's a very nice, complete solution. >>It scales to meet your demands, hundreds of thousands of databases, you know, it's, um, you know, these CDM products might seem great and they work well for a few databases, but then you put a real enterprise load and these hundreds of databases, and we've seen a lot of times where it just buckles, you know, it can't handle that kind of load in that, uh, in that scale. Uh, and, and this is important because customers read their marketing and read the collateral like, Hey, instant recovery. Why wouldn't I want that? Well, it's, you know, nicer than it looks, you know, it always sounds better. Right. Um, and so we have to educate them and about exactly what that means for the database, especially backup recovery use cases. And they're not really handled well, um, with their products. >>I know I'm like way over. I had a lot of questions on this announcement and I was gonna, I was gonna let you go, Tim, but you just mentioned something that, that gave me one more question if I may. So you talked about, uh, supporting hundreds of thousands of databases. You petabytes, you have real world use cases that, that actually leverage the, the appliance in these types of environments. Where does it really shine? >>Yeah. Let me just give you just two real quick ones. You know, we have a company energy transfer, the major natural gas and pipeline operator in the U S so they are a big part of our country's critical infrastructure services. We know ransomware, and these kinds of threats are, you know, are very much viable. We saw the colonial pipeline incident that happened, right? And so the attack, right, critical services while energy transfer was running, lots of databases and their legacy backup environments just couldn't keep up with their enterprise needs. They had backups taking like, well, over a day, they had restores taking several hours. Um, and so they had problems and they couldn't meet their SLS. They moved to the recovery appliance and now they're seeing backwards complete with that incremental forever in just 15 minutes. So that's like a 48 times improvement in backup time. >>And they're also seeing restores completing in about 30 minutes, right. Versus several hours. So it's a, it's a huge difference for them. And they also get that nice recovery validation and monitoring by the system. They know the health of their enterprise at their fingertips. The second quick one is just a global financial services customer. Um, and they have like over 10,000 databases globally and they, they really couldn't find a solution other than throw more hardware kind of approach to, uh, to fix their backups. Well, this, uh, not that the failures and not as the issues. So they moved to recovery appliance and they saw their failed backup rates go down for Matta plea. They saw four times better backup and restore performance. Um, and they have also a very nice centralized way to monitor and manage the system. Uh, real-time view if you will, that data protection health for their entire environment. Uh, and they can show this to the executive management and auditing teams. This is great for compliance reporting. Um, and so they finally done that. They have north of 50 plus, um, recovery appliances a day across that on global enterprise. >>Love it. Thank you for that. Um, uh, guys, great power panel. We have a lot of Oracle customers in our community and the best way to, to help them is to, I get to ask you a bunch of questions and get the experts to answer. So I wonder if you could bring us home, maybe you could just sort of give us the, the top takeaways that you want to your customers to remember in our audience to remember from this announcement. >>Sure, sorry. Uh, I want to actually pick up from where Tim left off and talk about a real customer use case. This is hot off the press. One of the largest banks in the United States, they decided to, that they needed to update. So performance software update on 3000 of their database instances, which are spanning 68, exited a clusters, massive undertaking, correct. They finished the entire task in three hours, three hours to update 3000 databases and 68 exited a clusters. Talk about availability, try doing this on any other infrastructure, no way anyone's going to be able to achieve this. So that's on terms of the availability, right? We are engineering in all of the aspects of database management, performance, security availability, being able to provide redundancy at every single level is all part of the design philosophy and how we are engineering this product. And as far as we are concerned, the, the goal is for forever. >>We are just going to continue to go down this path of increasing performance, increasing the security aspect of the, uh, of the infrastructure, as well as our Oracle database and keep going on this. You know, this, while these have been great results that we've delivered with extra data X nine M the, the journey is on and to our customers. The biggest advantage that you're going to get from the kind of performance metrics that we are driving with extra data is consolidation consolidate more, move, more database instances onto the extended platform, gain the benefits from that consolidation, reduce your operational expenses, reduce your capital expenses. They use your management expenses, all of those, bring it down to accelerator. Your total cost of ownership is guaranteed to go down. Those are my key takeaways, Dave >>Guys, you've been really generous with your time. Uh Subin uh, uh, uh, Bob, Tim, I appreciate you taking my questions and we'll willingness to go toe to toe, really? Thanks for your time. >>You're welcome, David. Thank you. Thank you. >>And thank you for watching this video exclusive from the cube. This is Dave Volante, and we'll see you next time. Be well.

>> From the Silicon Angle Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, It's theCUBE. (upbeat music) Now, here's your host, Stu Miniman. >> Hi. I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBE's Boston area studio; our actually brand-new studio, and I'm really excited to have I believe is a first-time guest, a long-time caller, you know, a long time listener >> Yeah, yep. first time caller, good buddy of mine Dave Graham, who is the director, is a director of emerging technologies: messaging at Dell Technologies. Disclaimer, Dave and I worked together at a company some of you might have heard on the past, it was EMC Corporation, which was a local company. Dave and I both left EMC, and Dave went back, after Dell had bought EMC. So Dave, thanks so much for joining, it is your first time on theCUBE, yes? >> It is the first time on theCUBE. >> Yeah, so. >> Lets do some, Some of the first times that I actually interacted with, with this team here, you and I were bloggers and doing lots of stuff back in the industry, so it's great to be able to talk to you on-camera. >> Yeah, same here. >> All right, so Dave, I mentioned you were a returning former EMC-er, now Dell tech person, and you spent some time at Juniper, at some startups, but give our audience a little bit about your background and your passions. >> Oh, so background-wise, yep, so started my career in technology, if you will, at EMC, worked, started in inside sales of all places. Worked my way into a consulting/engineer type position within ECS, which was, obviously a pretty hard-core product inside of EMC now, or Dell Technologies now. Left, went to a startup, everybody's got to do a start up at some point in their life, right? Take the risk, make the leap, that was awesome, was actually one of those Cloud brokers that's out there, like Nasuni, company called Sertis. Had a little bit of trouble about eight months in, so it kind of fell apart. >> Yeah, the company did, not you. >> The company did! (men laughing) I was fine, you know, but the, yeah, the company had some problems, but ended up leaving there, going to Symantec of all places, so I worked on the Veritas side, kind of the enterprise side, which just recently got bought out by Avago, evidently just. >> Broadcom >> Broadcom, Broadcom, art of the grand whole Avago. >> Dave, Dave, you know we're getting up there in years and our tech, when we keep talking about something 'cause I was just reading about, right, Broadcom, which was of course Avago bought Broadcom in the second largest tech acquisition in history, but when they acquired Broadcom, they took on the name because most people know Broadcom, not as many people know Avago, even those of us with backgrounds in the chip semiconductor and all those pieces. I mean you got Brocade in there, you've got some of the software companies that they've bought over the time, so some of those go together. But yeah, Veritas and Symantec, those of us especially with some storage and networking background know those brands well. >> Absolutely, PLX's being the PCI switched as well, it's actually Broadcom, those things. So yeah, went from Symantec after a short period of time there, went to Juniper Networks, ran part of their Center of Excellence, kind of a data center overlay team, the only non-networking guy in a networking company, it felt like. Can't say that I learned a ton about the networking side, but definitely saw a huge expansion in the data center space with Juniper, which was awesome to see. And then the opportunity came to come back to Dell Technologies. Kind of a everything old becoming new again, right? Going and revisiting a whole bunch of folks that I had worked with 13, you know, 10 years ago. >> Dave, it's interesting, you know, I think about, talk about somebody like Broadcom, and Avago, and things like that. I remember reading blog posts of yours, that you'd get down to some of that nitty-level, you and I would be ones that would be the talk about the product, all right now pull the board out, let me look at all the components, let me understand, you know, the spacing, and the cooling, and all the things there, but you know here it's 2019, Dave. Don't you know software is eating the world? So, tell us a little bit about what you're working on these days, because the high-level things definitely don't bring to mind the low-level board pieces that we used to talk about many years ago. >> Exactly, yeah, it's no longer, you know, thermals and processing power as much, right? Still aspects of that, but a lot of what we're focused on now, or what I'm focused on now is within what we call the emerging technology space. Or horizon 2, horizon 3, I guess. >> Sounds like something some analyst firm came up with, Dave. (Dave laughing) >> Yeah, like Industry 4.0, 5.0 type stuff. It's all exciting stuff, but you know when you look at technologies like five, 5G, fifth generation wireless, you know both millimeter waves, sub six gigahertz, AI, you know, everything old becoming new again, right? Stuff from the fifties, and sixties that's now starting to permeate everything that we do, you're not opening your mouth and breathing unless you're talking about AI at some point, >> Yeah, and you bring up a great point. So, we've spent some time with the Dell team understanding AI, but help connect for our audience that when you talk high AI we're talking about, we're talking about data at the center of everything, and it's those applications, are you working on some of those solutions, or is it the infrastructure that's going to enable that, and what needs to be done at that level for things to work right? >> I think it's all of the above. The beauty of kind of Dell Technologies that you sit across, both infrastructure and software. You look at the efforts and the energies, stuff like VMware buying, BitFusion, right, as a mechanism trying to assuage some of that low-level hardware stuff. Start to tap into what the infrastructure guys have always been doing. When you bring that kind of capability up the stack, now you can start to develop within the software mindset, how, how you're going to access this. Infrastructure still plays a huge part of it, you got to run it on something, right? You can't really do serverless AI at this point, am I allowed to say that? (man laughing) >> Well, you could say that, I might disagree with you, because absolutely >> Eh, that's fine. there's AI that's running on it. Don't you know, Dave, I actually did my serverless 101 article that I had, I actually had Ashley Gorakhpurwalla, who is the General Manager of Dell servers, holding the t-shirt that "there is no serverless, it's just, you know, a function that you only pay the piece that you need when you need and everything there." But the point of the humor that I was having there is even the largest server manufacturer in the world knows that underneath that serverless discussion, absolutely, there is still infrastructure that plays there, just today it tends to primarily be in AWS with all of their services, but that proliferation, serverless, we're just letting the developers be developers and not have to think about that stuff, and I mean, Dave, the stuff we've had background, you know, we want to get rid of silos and make things simpler, I mean, it's the things we've been talking about for decades, it's just, for me it was interesting to look at, it is very much a developer application driven piece, top-down as opposed to so many of the virtualization and infrastructure as a service is more of a bottom-up, let me try to change this construct so that we can then provide what you need above it, it's just a slightly different way of looking at things. >> Yeah, and I think we're really trying to push for that stuff, so you know you can bundle together hardware that makes it, makes the development platform easy to do, right? But the efforts and energy of our partnerships, Dell has engaged in a lot of partnerships within the industry, NVIDIA, Intel, AMD, Graphcore, you name it, right? We're out in that space working along with those folks, but a lot of that is driven by software. It's, you write to a library, like Kudu, or, you know pyEight, you know, PyTorch, you're using these type of elements and you're moving towards that, but then it has to run on something, right? So we want to be in that both-end space, right? We want to enable that kind of flexibility capability, and obviously not prevent it, but we want to also expose that platform to as many people within the industry as possible so they can kind of start to develop on it. You're becoming a platform company, really, when it comes down to it. >> I don't want to get down the semantical arguments of AI, if you will, but what are you hearing from customers, and what's some kind of driving some of the discussions lately that's the reality of AI as opposed to some of just the buzzy hype that everybody talks about? >> Well I still think there's some ambiguity in market around AI versus automation even, so what people that come and ask us are well, "you know, I believe in this thing called artificial intelligence, and I want to do X, Y, and Z." And these particular workloads could be better handled by a simple, not to distill it down to the barest minimum, but like cron jobs, something that's, go back in the history, look at the things that matter, that you could do very very simply that don't require a large amount of library, or sort of an understanding of more advanced-type algorithms or developments that way. In the reverse, you still have that capability now, where everything that we're doing within industry, you use chat-bots. Some of the intelligence that goes into those, people are starting to recognize, this is a better way that I could serve my customers. Really, it's that business out kind of viewpoint. How do I access these customers, where they may not have the knowledge set here, but they're coming to us and saying, "it's more than just, you know, a call, an IVR system," you know, like an electronic IVR system, right? Like I come in and it's just quick response stuff. I need some context, I need to be able to do this, and transform my data into something that's useful for my customers. >> Yeah, no, this is such a great point, Dave. The thing I've asked many times, is, my entire career we've talked about intelligence and we've talked about automation, what's different about it today? And the reality is, is it used to be all right. I was scripting things, or I would have some Bash processes, or I would put these things together. The order of magnitude and scale of what we're talking about today, I couldn't do it manually if I wanted to. And that automation is really, can be really cool these days, and it's not as, to set all of those up, there is more intelligence built into it, so whether it's AI or just machine learning kind of underneath it, that spectrum that we talk about it, there's some real-use cases, a real lot of things that are happening there, and it definitely is, order of magnitudes more improved than what we were talking about say, back when we were both at EMC and the latest generation of Symmetrix was much more intelligent than the last generation, but if you look at that 10 years later, boy, it's, it is night and day, and how could we ever have used those terms before, compared to where we are today. >> Yeah it's, it's, somebody probably at some point coined the term, "exponential". Like, things become exponential as you start to look at it. Yeah, the development in the last 10 years, both in computing horsepower, and GPU/GPGPU horsepower, you know, the innovation around, you know FPGAs are back in a big way now, right? All that brainpower that used to be in these systems now, you now can benefit even more from the flexibility of the systems in order to get specific workloads done. It's not for everybody, we all know that, but it's there. >> I'm glad you brought up FPGAs because those of us that are hardware geeks, I mean, some reason I studied mechanical engineering, not realizing that software would be a software world that we live in. I did a video with Amy Lewis and she's like, "what was your software-defined moments?" I'm like, "gosh, I'm the frog sitting in the pot, and, would love to, if I can't network-diagram it, or put these things together, networking guy, it's my background! So, the software world, but it is a real renaissance in hardware these days. Everything from the FPGAs you mentioned, you look at NVIDIA and all of their partners, and the competitors there. Anything you geeking out on the hardware side? >> I, yeah, a lot of the stuff, I mean, the era of GPU showed up in a big way, all right? We have NVIDIA to thank for that whole, I mean, the kudos to them for developing a software ecosystem alongside a hardware. I think that's really what sold that and made that work. >> Well, you know, you have to be able to solve that Bitcoin mining problem, so. >> Well, you know, depending on which cryptocurrency you did, EMD kind of snuck in there with their stuff and they did some of that stuff better. But you have that kind of competing architecture stuff, which is always good, competition you want. I think now that what we're seeing is that specific workloads now benefit from different styles of compute. And so you have the companies like Graphcore, or the chip that was just launched out of China this past week that's configurable to any type of network, enteral network underneath the covers. You see that kind of evolution in capability now, where general purpose is good, but now you start to go into reconfigurable elements so, I'll, FPGAs are some of these more advanced chips. The neuromorphic hardware, which is always, given my background in psychology, is always interesting to me, so anything that is biomorphic or neuromorphic to me is pinging around up here like, "oh, you're going to emulate the brain?" And Intel's done stuff, BraincChip's done stuff, Netspace, it's amazing. I just, the workloads that are coming along the way, I think are starting to demand different types or more effectiveness within that hardware now, so you're starting to see a lot of interesting developments, IPUs, TPUs, Teslas getting into the inferencing bit now, with their own hardware, so you see a lot of effort and energy being poured in there. Again, there's not going to be one ring to rule them all, to cop Tolkien there for a moment, but there's going to be, I think you're going to start to see the disparation of workloads into those specific hardware platforms. Again, software, it's going to start to drive the applications for how you see these things going, and it's going to be the people that can service the most amount of platforms, or the most amount of capability from a single platform even, I think are the people who are going to come out ahead. And whether it'll be us or any of our August competitors, it remains to be seen, but we want to be in that space we want to be playing hard in that space as well. >> All right Dave, last thing I want to ask you about is just career. So, it's interesting, at Vmworld, I kind of look at it in like, "wow, I'm actually, I'm sitting at a panel for Opening Acts, which is done by the VMunderground people the Sunday, day before VMworld really starts, talking about jobs and there's actually three panels, you know, careers, and financial, and some of those things, >> I'm going to be there, so come on by, >> Maybe I should join startin' at 1 o'clock Monday evening, I'm actually participating in a career cafe, talking about people and everything like that, so all that stuff's online if you want to check it out, but you know, right, you said psychology is what you studied but you worked in engineering, you were a systems engineer, and now you do messaging. The hardcore techies, there's always that boundary between the techies and the marketings, but I think it's obvious to our audience when they hear you geeking out on the TPUs and all the things there that you are not just, you're quite knowledgeable when it comes about the technology, and the good technical marketers I find tend to come from that kind of background, but give us a little bit, looking back at where you've been and where you're going, and some of those dynamics. >> Yeah, I was blessed from a really young age with a father who really loved technology. We were building PCs, like back in the eighties, right, when that was a thing, you know, "I built my AMD 386 DX box" >> Have you watched the AMC show, "Halt and Catch Fire," when that was on? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, so there was that kind of, always interesting to me, and I, with the way my mind works, I can't code to save my life, that's my brother's gift, not mine. But being able to kind of assemble things in my head was kind of always something that stuck in the back. So going through college, I worked as a lab resident as well, working in computer labs and doing that stuff. It's just been, it's been a passion, right? I had the education, was very, you know, that was my family, was very hard on the education stuff. You're going to do this. But being able to follow that passion, a lot of things fell into place with that, it's been a huge blessing. But even in grad school when I was getting my Masters in clinical counseling, I ran my own consulting business as well, just buying and selling hardware. And a lot of what I've done is just I read and ask a ton of questions. I'm out on Twitter, I'm not the brightest bulb in the, of the bunch, but I've learned to ask a lot of questions and the amount of community support in that has gotten me a lot of where I am as well. But yeah, being able to come out on this side, marketing is, like you're saying, it's kind of an anathema to the technical guys, "oh those are the guys that kind of shine the, shine the turd, so to speak," right? But being able to come in and being able to kind of influence the way and make sure that we're technically sound in what we're saying, but you have to translate some of the harder stuff, the more hardcore engineering terms into layman's terms, because not everybody's going to approach that. A CIO with a double E, or an MS in electrical engineering are going on down that road are very few and far between. A lot of these folks have grown up or developed their careers in understanding things, but being able to kind of go in and translate through that, it's been a huge blessing, it's nice. But always following the areas where, networking for me was never a strong point, but jumping in, going, "hey, I'm here to learn," and being willing to learn has been one of the biggest, biggest things I think that's kind of reinforced that career process. >> Yeah, definitely Dave, that intellectual curiosity is something that serves anyone in the tech industry quite well, 'cause, you know, nobody is going to be an expert on everything, and I've spoken to some of the brightest people in the industry, and even they realize nobody can keep up with all of it, so that being able to ask questions, participate, and Dave, thank you so much for helping me, come have this conversation, great as always to have a chat. >> Ah, great to be here Stu, thanks. >> Alright, so be sure to check out the theCUBE.net, which is where all of our content always is, what shows we will be at, all the history of where we've been. This studio is actually in Marlborough, Massachusetts, so not too far outside of Boston, right on the 495 loop, we're going to be doing lot more videos here, myself and Dave Vellante are located here, we have a good team here, so look for more content out of here, and of course our big studio out of Palo Alto, California. So if we can be of help, please feel free to reach out, I'm Stu Miniman, and as always, thanks for watching theCUBE. (upbeat electronic music)

(exciting, upbeat music) >> (Announcer) Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge '17. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> We're back. Dave Vellante with Jeff Frick. This is theCube and we're here at ServiceNow Knowledge '17. Stanley Toh is here, he's the Global IT Director at semiconductor manufacturer Broadcom. Stanley, thanks for coming to theCUBE. >> Nice to be here. >> So, semiconductor, hot space right now. Things are going crazy and it's a good market, booming. That's good, it's always good to be in a hot space. But we're here at Knowledge. Maybe talk a little bit about your role, and then we'll get into what you're doing with ServiceNow. >> Sure. You're right. Semiconductor is booming. But we don't do anything sexy. Everything is components that go into your iPhones and stuff like that. They do the sexy stuff. We do the thing that make it work. So, I'm the what we call the Enterprise and User Services Director, so basically anything that touches the end user, from the help desk to collaboration to your PC support desk, everything is under. Basically anything that touches the end user, even onboarding, and then, now with the latest, we actually moved our old customer support portal to even ServiceNow CSM. >> Okay, so what led you to ServiceNow? Maybe take us back, and take us through the before and the after. >> Okay. Broadcom Limited, before we changed our name to Broadcom, we were Avago Technologies. We are very cloud centric. Anything that we can move to the cloud, we moved to the cloud. So we were the first multi-billion dollar company to move to Google, back in 2007. That was 10 years ago. And then we never stopped since. We have Opta, we have Workday. And if you look at it, all this cloud technology works so well with ServiceNow. And ServiceNow is a platform that has all the API and connectors to all these other cloud platforms. So, when we were looking and evaluating, first as just the ITSM replacement, we selected ServiceNow because of the ease of integration. But as we get into ServiceNow, and as we learn ServiceNow, we found that it's not just an ITSM platform. You can use it for HR, for finance, for legal, for facilities. Recently, probably about six months ago, we launched the HR module. And then three weeks ago, we went live with a CSM portal for the external customer. >> When you say you go back to 2007 with Google, you're talking about what, Google Docs? >> Everything. >> Dave: Everything. >> Email, calendar, docs, sites, Drive, but it was unknown. >> Dave: All the productivity stuff. >> Everything. >> Dave: Outsourced stuff. >> They were unknown then, >> Jeff: Right, right, right. >> And it's a risk. >> So what was the conversation to take that risk? Because obviously there was a lot of concern at the enterprise level on some of these cloud services beyond test/dev in the early days. Obviously you made the right bet, it worked out pretty well. (Stanley laughing) But I'm curious, what were the conversations and why did you ultimately decide to make that bet? >> Okay. So 2007 was just after the downturn. >> Jeff: Right. >> So everyone was looking at cost, at supportability. But at the same time, the mobile phone, the smart phone is just exploding in the market. So we want something that is very flexible, very scalable, and very easy to integrate, plus also give you mobility. So that's why we went with Google as the first cloud platform, but then we started adding. So right now, we can basically do everything on your smart phone. We have Opta as our single sign-on. From one portal, I go everywhere. >> Dave: Okay, so that's good. So you talked about some of the criteria for the platform. How has that affected how you do business, how you do IT business? >> See, IT has always been looked upon as a cost center. And we are always slow, legacy system, hard to use, we don't listen to you. (Jeff laughing) >> Dave: What do those guys do? >> You know, why are we paying those guys, right? And then you look at all the consumer stuff. They are sexy, they are mobile, they have pretty pictures. Now all your internal users want the same experience. So, the experience has changed. The old UNIX command key doesn't work anymore. They want something touch, GUI, mobile. They want the feel, the color, you know. >> That might be the best description (Stanley laughing) of the consumerization of IT, Dave, that we've ever had on theCUBE. >> It's really honest. Coming from an IT person, it is, it is honest. And now you've driven ServiceNow into other areas beyond IT. >> Stanley: Yes. >> You mentioned HR. >> HR. We went live six months ago. >> Okay. And these other areas, are you thinking about it, looking at it, or? >> So we are also looking with legal, because they have a lot of legal documents and NDAs and stuff like that. And ServiceNow have a very nice integration to DocuSign and Vox. So we are looking at that. But the latest one, we went live three weeks ago, is the CSM, the customer support management portal. And that one actually replaced one of our legacy system that has a stack of sixteen application running. And we collapsed that, and went live on ServiceNow CSM three weeks ago. >> And what has been, two impacts - the business impact, and, I'm curious, is it the culture impact. You sort of set it up as the attitude. We had fun with it, but it's true. What's the business impact? And what has the cultural impact been? >> The last few years, we have been doing a lot of acquisition. So we have been bringing in a lot of new BU's. Business units. And they want things to move fast, and we want to integrate them into one brand. So speed and agility is key when you do acquisitions. So that's why we are moving into a platform where we can integrate all these new companies easily. We found that in ServiceNow and we can integrate them. So for example, when we acquired Broadcom Corporation, they have 18,000 employees. We onboarded them on day one, and usually when you do an acquisition, they don't give you the employee information until the last minute. Two days, all I need, is to bring them all on, onboarded into my collaboration suite. I only need two days of the information, and on day one, Turn it on, they are live. Their information is in, they have an email account. All their information is in ServiceNow. They call one help desk, they call our help desk, they get all the help and services. So it's fully integrated on day one itself. >> And you guys also own LSI now, right? >> Yes, LSI. >> Emulex? >> Emulex, PLX. >> PLX. >> The latest acquisition is Brocade, which we will close in the summer. And then, the rumored Toshiba NAND business. So, yeah, we are doing a lot of acquisitions. >> Yeah, quite a roll-up there. >> Correct. So as you can see, they are all very different companies. So when they come in, they have different culture. They have different workflow, they have different processes. But if you integrate them into a platform that we are very familiar right now, it's the consumerized look and feel, it's very easy to bring them in. >> And that is the cultural change that has occurred. >> Yes, it's a huge, >> So do people love IT now? >> They still hate IT. (Jeff and Dave laughing) They still say iT is a cost center. But right now, they are coming around. They see that we are bringing value to them. So right now, IT is just not to provide you the basic. IT is to enable the business to be better and more competitive. >> A true partner for the business. >> Yes, correct. >> Stanley, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE. It was great to hear your story, we appreciate it. >> Stanley: Thanks for having me. >> You're welcome. All right, keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, we're live from ServiceNow Knowledge '17. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube! Covering Dell EMC World 2017, brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Welcome back to Dell EMC World. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Paul Gillin. We are joined by Tim Bicio. He is the CTO of Lightstorm, James Cameron's film production company. Tim, thanks so much for joining us. >> Tim: Thanks for having me. >> I think it would be great if you could just set the scene for our viewers a little bit and just explain what you do at Lightstorm, how Lightstorm works. >> Sure, so as I said, Lightstorm is James Cameron's film production company. We're presently preparing to go into production on the Avatar sequels. The Avatar film franchise is probably one of the most technically advanced and complicated film productions ever made. The prep time and technology involved in producing these films is incredible. >> So talk about what that means in terms of data. >> In terms of data, we have seen in the last 10 years, maybe 15 years, in the film industry, a transformation from 100% film or 90% film to 100% data. At the same time, our requirements around the actual film frame have gone up. Resolution's gone up, so think 2k 10 years ago and now we're looking at up to 8k in resolutions. Think about 2-D vs. 3-D, so you've got two streams of data instead of one stream of data. And then frame rate, so Mr. Cameron's been pushing for higher and higher frame rates, more realistic film experience with higher frame rate. So, you're looking at going from 24 to 48 or 60 frames a second. So, in terms of amount of storage, feeds and speeds, network bandwidth, everything has just blown up. >> So, can you describe your current environment? What kind of servers, what kind of storage configuration you have? >> So, we just went through a complete refresh of our data center ahead of the sequels, cause we're going into production as we speak. And we are now riding on Dell R730s for our virtual infrastructure, Vmware with vSAN and Brocade Switches and Isilon storage, both for our production clusters and our near-line clusters. >> Talk about the challenges that you deal with, in terms of what you're looking for. >> Oh, the challenges. Every day is a new challenge. We have to be careful about budget. We have to be careful about expend. As I said before, we've been preparing for about five years. Five years ago, our projections around data storage were different than our projections today. So, we have to be nimble with cash flow and and with how we purchase. Isilon's a perfect example. I could underestimate the amount of storage I needed five years ago, but because I can go Isilon in place, buying additional nodes helps me to solve that problem. >> How conscious do you have to be of storage capacity? Do you save basically everything or do you have certain rules, principals that govern what you save? >> Very conscious. We save everything. Nothing is lost. In fact, we have all of the content from the first Avatar is online on Isilon now. So, if our director asks us for a take from eight years ago, I have it, it's available to me. In fact, the artist can go and get it off Isilon directly. >> What does that do to your budget? You don't have an unlimited budget. How do you plan for something like that? >> Again, I think it's planning. One of the things that helps us is that the requirements for storage 10 years ago were much smaller. So it's actually fairly small amount of our current storage budget. Our future needs are much bigger than our past needs. >> One of the sub-themes of this conference is really about how digital transformation is changing the workforce. Can you talk a little bit about how it affects your team and the kinds of things you had to do as a leader to manage the team with these challenges? >> The interesting thing is our business, the film industry, the technology line item is relatively new to film-making. (audio drops out) across the board (audio drops out) resolution and frame rate, but we're working with a global partner in New Zealand. So, moving data to our partners in New Zealand seemlessly without days and days of wait time is critical. We're using VPLEX as part of that solution to move data to them. Communication is key. Video conferencing, voice, all these things are essential to bring two companies together that are 6000 miles apart. >> How much of your time is spent just keeping up? I mean, all of these innovations that are flowing out right now, how do you keep up with all this stuff? >> We just do. (laughs) And quite a bit of my time is... Every conference I come to this year, I'm looking at all sorts of new technology that I wish I had six months ago. But, as I said before, one of the reasons, going back to Isilon for instance, Isilon allows us to do rolling upgrades. So, while we're in production, I don't have an opportunity to do a shutdown or to move to a different platform. I could buy the new platform, put it in place, migrate my data and smart-fail my old, nodes out. So that's one of the things we look at when we look at technology. >> So for the rest of us who are not in the movie business, can you talk a little bit about what the future holds for us as movie-goers and what kinds of innovations that we'll be seeing on the silver screen a year from now, five years from now? Wow us. >> I can guess, but the reality is, and I've said this once before, technology and film have a certain romance and as technology-- >> Rebecca: You're not going to give it away? >> No, and as technology goes forward, film goes forward. Technology allows us to do new things. Avatar wasn't possible, I'm trying to remember it, 20 years ago, because we couldn't create that synthetic world for you and have you believe it. As technology came online to make the film, only then was it possible to make that film. So I think that you'll find that technology allows us to explore creative imagination deeper and deeper and deeper. >> What do you think is going to be the next leap in capability for film-makers inspired by technology? >> I don't know. (laughs) >> Just trying to keep up with today, aren't you? >> Yeah. >> Well, let me ask it in a different way. Is there a technology that's on the horizon right now that you look at that really excites you? >> Rather not discuss it. >> Do people in your position compete with each other over the infrastructure that you have and over the effects that you can create? >> Say that again. >> Do the movie companies compete with each other over the effects that they can create? >> Well, I wouldn't say compete. I think each film has its own vision and each film has to, >> I don't think we're competing with another studio or another production. Most of the time with the original films, they are creative enough and different enough where they stand their own ground. I think you've seen in the 80s, maybe a lot of the blockbusters sort of were a lot similar and that doesn't get you anything. It just splits your market share. Mr. Cameron's been, all of his films are hits. He's very creative and that's something you can't compete with. It just is, you have it or you don't. But again, the technology is the piece that allows us to hopefully help him to realize that. >> And talk a little bit about that founder mindset. Because we're here, at Dell EMC World. This is Michael Dell's brainchild. It started in his dorm room. And now here we all are, talking about the next wave of digital transformation. How much is it James Cameron and his vision? I guess I'm wondering how much other people can play into it and have an impact? >> Look, I think it's, again, Im just a technologist. I think it's 100% his vision. I think each one of us play a part in helping to realize that as close as possible. Jim and John expect 110% or 120% of us, period. Because they expect more than that of themselves. So, we all play a part in their world, but it's Jim's world. >> The IT world, particularly at the high end where you're working is incredibly competitive. You're down in L.A., you're competing with all of these other studios. How do you find the people, the skills that you need? >> You know, that's a good point. That is one piece that's tough because we are competing for skill-sets. Fortunately, our studio's run as a family and so we're able to pull people back from the last show. And then they hand-pick new folks and people that they know as well, so it works out. It is competitive, but as I said, we go back to bringing family back home. >> Tim Bicio, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. >> Thanks for having me. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Paul Gillin. We'll have more from Dell EMC world after this.

>> Announcer: Live from Palo Alto. It's the Cube, Covering Women Transforming Technology 2017. Brought to you by VMware. >> Welcome back to the Cube's coverage of Women Transforming Technology here at VMware. I'm Rebecca Knight, your host. I'm joined by Colleen Kapase, she is the vice president of Partner Go to Market Programs and Incentives here at VMware. Colleen thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me, I appreciate it. >> So you are a Channel Chief, that sounds so, it's a great title I love it. (laughs) Can you explain to our viewers a little bit about what you do? >> Absolutely, and maybe my mom will watch this cause she still doesn't quite understand. >> Mom are you listening, okay. >> What I do. Channel Chief is a wonderful opportunity to drive the sales strategy inside a technology vendor through multiple different partners who sell our technology around the world. What many people don't know in the technology industry is trillions and trillions of dollars of our sales go through partners. In fact we even partner with ourselves. VMware partners with Google and Amazon and Dell and everyone else in the industry to help ourselves sell because customers don't buy a technology, they buy a solution. So much like the retail industry, where clothes are made by a brand, it's not necessarily sold by that brand. It's sold Nordstrom's or Bloomingdale's etc. Same thing in technology. So my role as a Channel Chief is to manage those relationships. VMware has about 60,000 partners worldwide, and so our focus as a Channel Chief is how do I get those partners to sell our technology, and not just sell it, but deliver it, and install it, and architect it, and put a whole solution together because VMware is often sold with many other technologies. The server side, the networking side, the storage side, and put a solution together for our customers. So that's what I get up and think about every day, is how do I get these partners to sell VMware. >> So you, it's a sales role. >> Colleen: It is. >> And are there many other, and you're also in corporate. >> Colleen: Yes. >> Channel Chief. Are there many other women in these leadership roles? >> Yeah, not as much as I would like to see today. But I think it's beginning to grow as a career that's well suited, frankly, for women. It is a corporate role, in many cases, and there's different kinds of Channel Chief. There's a field Channel Chief that's out there meeting with all the different partners, putting together the business cases and how can we sell more in the future. My role, and one that's really growing in the industry is a corporate Channel Chief. We think though the incentives. Almost like the comp plan for a sales person, but it's what's the comp plan for a partner. How do we pay them, what behaviors do we want to reward for. What behaviors do we want to stop rewarding for. And how do we want to move the cheese, if you will, on the sales team that happens every year, it's a very natural thing but we're thinking about these for businesses versus individuals. Another piece is what's the legal requirements of working with us, what's the training requirements, which technology do you need to know, how do we need to increase those technologies. The wonderful thing is a Channel Chief, really, we touch the marketing department, the legal department, the finance department, the sales department, most importantly, the business unit department that creates the technology. How do we sell it. You're almost like a mini CEO within the company. But if you do it at a corporate level, it's also a role that doesn't require a lot of travel. And that seems to be one of the main inhibitors for women that I see in sales, is the road warrior piece is something that just doesn't work for a lot of women. So being a corporate Channel Chief you can be involved in the strategy, doing the research, setting the direction. But have a bit more of a stable home life as well, so you can balance work and home. >> Right, and you can get to a certain point of influence in your career without having to be out there as much. >> Absolutely, but I always refer to it again as that mini CEO because you're really that hub and spoke, you touch so many different departments and you're solving so many company problems that are really at the central piece. Hey, it's amazing, we've created networking virtualization, how are we going to sell it? Who do we sell it with? What does it displace, what does it replace? How do we explain it to customers? Who was selling networking already that could help us do this? Really it's the hub of everything. >> And because you're collaborating with all these different business units, as you say, gets your brain working in different ways too which is fun. >> Absolutely. >> And, not to be generic, but having that collaborative spirit that many of us women have, it really works well for you. You have to be able to understand, and put yourself in the position of finance, of the business unit, of the legal team, and be able to communicate with all of 'em, okay this is how we're going to bring this technology to market. >> So for a viewer out there, that sounds like something I'd like to do, how did you get started? How did you become a Channel Chief? >> Yep, not so interesting story but I'll share with you anyways. >> Rebecca: We only want interesting stories Colleen. >> I came from a family that had a doctor, and a teaching background from my parents. So when I said I wanted to go into business I think they wanted to disown me somewhat, and didn't really know how to guide me, so I was really on my own. Went to the University of Washington Business School and really went to the career center and saw consulting. And in my mind I'm like, ah consulting, I can try different things, do different things and learn more about business to find my niche, and it happened to be a channel consulting company based out of Seattle, Washington. So I actually started as an intern. And there are multiple different channel consulting companies that still exist, especially in the Bay area, in Boston are two of the main headquarters of those. I got to see what is a channel strategist do in hardware vendors, software vendors. I worked for Compaq, I worked in HP, I worked in Inktomi. I quickly learned that software had more monies so that seemed like a good direction to go. There's a small group of folks that understand channel. But they're very willing to train the next generation. So it's a very niche, really profession. If you understand it, and if you listen to the partners, and you bring back their voice within your vendor, you can be very well respected in the industry as well. >> Now you're also on the diversity council here at VMware. >> Colleen: Yes. >> What are some of the things you're working on to make this a more inclusive work environment? >> Great question. Some of the things that we're working on within VMware, that I think is very important, especially because VMware has our engineering background is the math behind the problem statement. How are we doing as a company? We have created wonderful dashboards that really sit down with our leaders and really look at diversity. How many women to we have in the company? How many do we have at individual contributors all the way up in to the vice president level. How many come in from a recruitment standpoint, how many do we promote and how many do we lose? What I've found is, sitting down with our leadership, male and female and looking at the math and the dashboards of where we stand as a company gives us a single foundation to start from, and then figure out how are we going to continue to improve that? I'm sure, as you know, VMware's recently come out with our statistics of being 23%, for instance female. And then we're constantly looking at how can we improve upon that. We have educating people in the programs that we have. People of Difference, our PODS for instance. We have a VM inclusion, People of Difference, POD, around women and that's when we get together and talk about how can we support each other, what are some tactics that we can come with to support each other even just in a meeting. You know you can sit in a meeting, and you know that old adage of you can say something and then possibly a male repeats it and you weren't listened the first time. But what's amazing to watch in VMware, now other women are trained to stop in that meeting, say, ah, actually I think Colleen just said that, so nice of you to repeat that. Handled in a nice almost fun kind of way. >> That's not always easy to do though. >> No it's not. >> I mean, that takes a deft touch. So are you also in those training sessions? Are you, is there sort of an EQ component to it? >> Absolutely, and we practice. So we literally have groups of ourselves, that we go through the training and we practice, and we hold each other accountable, and say in two weeks find one example where that happened to a colleague or yourself and how did you correct the situation or not correct the situation. Let's talk about it, why did you or didn't you. Holding each other accountable seems to be a big, big piece of, I think, the success at VMware. Cause you can discuss the problem and have a support group of agreeing on what the issue is, but not take action to fix it. And so those support groups, and coming together, and saying here's the issue, and here's how I addressed it in my small way, in my one meeting, and those death by a thousand cuts starts to stop, and you find you have alliances with other women who are supporting women, and we're all trying to come together to further the cause, which is a great feeling. >> So, I mean, this sounds as though things are, that VMware is aware of this and is trying to improve the culture. But Silicon Valley gets a lot of bad press, particularly lately, particularly this last week. >> Colleen: Yes. >> Of being an intolerant place, or being sexist. Is it as bad as we're hearing? >> I've certainly heard some of the stories at some of the other tech vendors recently. I'd hate to think it's that way at every single company. I know that Uber's story is recently come up, that's pretty serious, I think. Do I think everyone experiences it as a female at some level, whether it's the joke or the football talk, or not feeling included, or the cigar lounge. I think that happens to some extent everywhere. Did the seriousness of what we're hearing come out in the press happen everywhere, I hope not. I haven't had those types of experience. But I think almost everyone has had it. You know, just a mispositioning of a statement that did offend, or hey, how was maternity leave handled by male leadership. And there's something I'm pretty, pretty passionate about, that we're beginning discussion at VMware, which is a reverse mentor. So we're really asking some of our male leaders to look at having a female or diverse candidate reverse mentor. So someone lower than you, honestly, in the pecking order, telling you, or being there as someone you can bounce something off of. Hey I was thinking of doing this, would this bother you as a woman? Or when they see you say something or do something, or hey did you notice you, you know, leader, you had a panel and it was all men. Really having a relationship where they can have those conversations, cause sometimes what we're finding is the men just really aren't aware. And you want to think that they are, and I think we're so super aware and more vigilant of it that they would be more aware, but I think having the ability as a leader to learn from your team or someone specifically on you team that you have trust. >> But the people who have the reverse mentors, aren't they already a self selecting group in the sense of their already the ones who are aware that there are problems. I mean, I'm just thinking about it, >> Yeah >> It sounds like a great idea, but how do you get that leader who maybe is a little more bullheaded or just unaware, oblivious, to say you need this, you need someone of, who has a different perspective than you, telling you how it is, or telling you what his or her experiences. >> I think that's a great question. Something we're pretty focused on is diversity. We're not necessarily doing it to be nice. We're doing it for business outcomes. I think the hope is, you have, maybe the leaders who are self selecting who come and do the reverse mentoring, are aware of their organization and how they need to improve. But what we can show is, if they work on it over time, they get better business outcomes. And in sales business outcomes is very clear and easy to see. (Rebecca laughing) So the teams that have the more diverse teams, and lean in to the issue, even if they were more self selecting, if they have the better business outcomes, if they have the better sales over time, it becomes less of a, hey the person who is bullish who doesn't want to, he needs you to do this to be nice, it's more, this person got better sales results than you did, so why don't we take a page out of what they did and try some of these things. And I think if we can keep in on business outcomes, that's part of the way we can win. In sales, that's a little easier than on the technical side. >> There's a clear ROI >> Colleen: Absolutely. When you look at it. No, and I think that's a really good point because you do think of diversity training as kind of this squishy thing, that you can't necessarily always quantify. >> Colleen: Yeah. >> What are you, what are you seeing, and what are you hearing from your colleagues, your other Channel Chiefs in terms of what's happening? (sighs) >> Great question. There's not enough of us, so I actually just met with four of them yesterday from Brocade, and Riverbed, and Sungard, and we had a discussion of what's working or what's not working. I think we're seeing a better understanding from all of our peers on male and female, of there's an issue, we're not diverse. The statistics are being published now. We're seeing companies come out, VMware published, where are we at. And you can just kind of look at the numbers and say we have a ways to go. >> So you're benchmarking yourself, but then you're also benchmarking yourself against, >> Against others. >> Yes. >> I think more people are coming out and, you know, I think Facebook, and Apple sort of started some of that trend, but Amazon, Microsoft, Oracle, they're all publishing now their percent of leadership that is women. So I think we have an agreement on, we've got an issue, we could see mathematically we have a problem. We need to improve that. I don't think some of the smaller companies have the assets and the resources to solve the problem yet. And they're looking at some of the larger companies, what are you doing, and what tools are you developing and how can we learn from you. Cause when you talk to some of those smaller companies that maybe are more likely to have some of the female leaderships in those positions, they still don't know how they are going to solve this problem completely. >> Thinking about the top women in Silicon Valley, or top women in the technology industry, the names we know that are in the press all the time, the Sheryl Sanberg's, and Jenny Remedy's, who do you think are some of the unsung heroes? >> Oh, unsung heroes. You know, I, in my world, in the channel world I see a much smaller community of women. I see the women in VMware frankly. I think Betsy and what she's done at VMware as our chief people officer, and really taking the issue on, pretty head on, and even, you know, to the point of having the Women Transforming Technology event here at VMware and sponsoring it, and getting Dell to sponsor it, and Pivotal and the other sponsors. I think that's been huge, and that's been a journey watching her on as well. Cause she's been at VMware 12 to 14 years, I think. And having a female founder of VMware wasn't an issue, you didn't think of it, that was actually one of the things used to recruit me here, that i was very excited about at VMware. But over time we saw things change and maybe the dynamics as we grew fast, diversity didn't necessarily grow. And she was the one who said we need to stop, if we need to be thoughtful about this, we need to think. This isn't going to get VMware the best business outcomes, and she's really been pushing the issue quite strongly at VMware. I'm in awe of her. I don't see her discussed as much as Sheryl Sanberg and the luminaries out there, but I've been seeing her battles within VMware and she's been making a huge difference. >> Colleen Kapase, thank you so much for joining us. >> Yeah, thank you for having me, I appreciate it. >> We're at Women Transforming Technology here at VMware. I'm Rebecca Knight, we'll be right back. (techno music) (techno music)

>>Live from Las Vegas, Nevada. It's the cube covering EMC world 2015. Brought to you by EMC, Brocade and VCE. >>Okay. Welcome back everyone. We are live here in Las Vegas with the cube at EMC real 2015. I'm John ferry, the founder of Silicon Ang. I'm joined with two special guests. Stella Lowe. Who's the global communications at EMC runs, global communications and Amy Posey, neuro facilitator at peak teams. Welcome to the cube. >>So >>You had a session women of the world. We did it last year, but great cube session last year. Um, so I want to get a couple of quick questions. What's going on with women of the world, what you guys just came from there and you guys were on the panel and then what is a neuro facilitator? And then let's get into it. Let's talk about men and women, how we work together. >>Okay, great. So let's start with women of world. So, um, so last year we talked about the challenges that we face and how we reframe them into opportunities that we had some fantastic panelists, but this year I was really interested in the science behind men and women. So it's clear that we're different and we're all bled for success, but, but we're wired differently. And we kind of knew that already. I know we talked about it before John, but we now have the science behind it. We can look at brain scans and we can see that we, Oh, we have different brain patterns. We think differently, uh, different parts of the brain fire fire up when, in times of motivation and stress and people like Amy here, who've done lots of work into this, have having the stages. It was great to have her on the panel to discuss it. >>I'm going to give you a plug because EMC does all kinds of things with formula one cars, motorcycles, getting the data and understanding the race. But now you're dealing with people. So what is going on? Tell us what's up neuro facilitator and let's >>So a neuro facilitator is maybe the best made up job title in the world that I gave myself. So essentially what I do is I look at information about the brain and I curate the research that's out there. So there's a lot of new technology to actually read and look inside our heads. We all have a brain, but we don't necessarily all know how it works. So there's a lot more research and, and tools to read our brains and take a look inside. So what I do is I take that research and, and work with, um, neuroscientists and neurobiologist at Stanford, Columbia, UCLA, and, and reach out and figure out how do we take that information and make it easier, still attain. And I do it in the scope of leadership at organizations like EMC and other technology companies to figure out how do we work better? What information is out there? You know, soft skills and sort of relationship skills. I've always been sort of squishy, right? So now there's a lot more science and information about our brains that are informing it. The, the data's out there, what I do and what my job is, is to pull the data and figure out how do we make it into practical, useful applications for us at work at home, wherever we are. So that's essentially, I'm doing so you >>Guys discussed and how men and women are different. Actually look at the data. We have to give a lot of qualitative data. I mean, it keeps counselors in business. You know, the grant in the workforce, uh, balance is important, but we have a lot of that data, but what's the numbers. What is your findings? So >>What's interesting is looking at men and women's brains. What's fascinating is that we are more alike than dissimilar in looking at a brain. If you looked at a brain scan, one of a man and woman, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two, but they're now finding and looking at different parts of the brain in different functions. So for instance, men have approximately 6% more gray matter than women. So in terms of the gray matter, that's the thinking brain essentially, and women have more white matter than gray. Matter about 9% more than men. And the white matter is what connects the brain and communicate both front and back and side to side. And so you can make some extrapolation of that information and say, you know, men may focus more on issues, solutions, problems, whereas women sort of think more broadly or wider. >>So, I mean, there are generalities, but a lot of the sciences is fascinating. There's also some interesting science about the hippocampus, which is, um, sort of deep. If this is your brain, it's deep inside the brain and the hippocampus is the memory center. And it's what they're finding is that for women, they tend to store emotional memories more effectively. So happy, sad, fearful those types of emotions get stored more effectively in the hippocampus. Whereas men oftentimes during stress, the hippocampus actually has a challenge in making connections. So that's where, again, some of the, the focus and determination and silo viewed sometimes that men have in situations or problems comes into play. Um, there's one other piece, the anterior cingulate cortex, which is sort of within the brain and that's the brains error detector. And it turns out it's a little bit bigger in women. So women sort of tend to look for, uh, issues CA you know, problems, um, maybe less solution focused, especially under times of stress and, and a lot of this, data's interesting. >>It, it causes you to make some generalities, you know, not everybody is going to operate in that way. Your mileage may theory, but it's, it's good because it helps us inform some of the quirky behavior that we deal with at work and figuring out why, why don't you do that? Why do you do that and installed that women being better or women using more of the brain or less of the brain it's, it's, it's simply about we, we, if all brains away from differently, we both bring different things to the table. And how do you take both of those benefits and bring them forward into a better outcomes? >>Always great to talk about because in the workforce, people are different. And so differences is a term that we use, like, you know, with kids learn differently, some have evolved differently and men and women have had differences. So the data shows that that's clear. Um, I want to share a quote that my wife shared on Facebook. It says mother, um, well, a worried mother does better research than the FBI. So, um, I bring that up, you know, it's instinctual. So a lot of it's also biological and also environmental talk about the dynamics around that, that wiring, because you're wired by your upbringing too, that affects you. And what's the, what's the data show in the biology. >>So it's interesting because the, the key piece is that it's not just the biological brain differences. It's, it's a whole host of factors that leave a footprint on us, in our behavior. So it's our education, it's our, uh, you know, where we, where we grew up, our culture is part of that. It's also gender stereotypes that play a role in how we operate. And I think all of those things leave a footprint on a, an and lead us to different behaviors. And so you can't just say it's the, the, the information that's on our brains. It's a whole host of factors that influence. So my study of looking at how the brains are a little bit different and what the research is coming, it's, it's blended in with research around leadership and things like confidence and motivation in the workplace bias in the workplace. And they're, they're showing very different things. >>So for instance, if you think about confidence, we did an interesting exercise in the event at women of world. And I asked, you know, there's, there's a lot about confidence and confidence is essentially the will or motivation to act. So how many women in the room, uh, would raise the, you know, go up for a job that they were really interested in and fascinated by, but maybe weren't a hundred percent qualified for, like, how many of you have maybe turned down that job or decided not to apply because it wasn't the right time. Like you, you're pretty competent, but not a hundred percent confident in it. And it was funny because the majority, all the women's hands went up in the room. So then I asked him, I flipped the question in the room and I asked the men in the room. I said, okay, if you were only about 50% confident for a job that you were going up for, would you, of course, right. Like, yes, I >>Fabricate some stuff on their resume and you make >>Them look bigger. So, exactly. So what's interesting is testosterone plays a role in confidence and motivation at work. And it turns out men have 10 times the amount of testosterone as women do. So part of that is that aggression, but we both have it, but that, that aggressive factor, that idea to go after something, to be more confident, um, women are behind the curve in that, from the research that I've seen. So it takes more effort to, to, to be able to have the confidence, to go for it and to sort of break down those barriers that exist for women to, to go after those jobs that they want, even if it's not a hundred percent. And so we did a, an exercise in boosting confidence in testosterone called power posing. And Amy Cuddy out of Harvard does a, a whole Ted talk on it, which is fascinating. >>But the idea is that you, you know, you, you put your chest back, you put your hands on your hips and it helps boost your testosterone up to about 20%. And it reduces cortisol, which is a stress hormone. So it's a, it's a quick way. You don't do it in front of people. You do it sort of on the sly or else you kind of, you don't look very nice to others, but you, you boost your confidence doing that. And it's just a small sort of brain hack that you can do to give yourself an upper hand, knowing that knowing the science behind it. So it's a behavior changing type of research that's coming out, which I think is really, >>That's really interesting, but now it translates into leadership and execution in the workforce. So people are different than men and women are different that changes the dynamic around what good is, because if your point about women not asking for that job or having confidence to the field, like I'm not going to go for it, like a man bravado, whatever testosterone that's what mean that that's the benchmark of what drive means. So this came up with Microsoft CEO at the Anita board conferences, which we had a cube there. And, and this is a big issue. So how do HR, how do the managers, how do people recognize the differences and what does the data show, and, and can you share your thoughts on that? >>Yeah, so I think a lot of it comes down to bias and bias is essentially a shortcut that we use in our brains to take less energy. And it's not a bad thing. It's, it's something we all do. And it's conscious and it's unconscious. So bias, I think is a key piece of that. And the research on bias is fascinating. It's very, it's, it's very popular topic these days, because I think being able to do a couple of things, be aware that there are hundreds of biases and they're both conscious and unconscious, uh, acknowledge that it exists, but not legitimize it not make that. Okay. The third piece is to, to counter it and, and being able to counter bias by making sure that people have opportunities. And even though you may have re removed hypothetical barriers explicitly stating that you want people, men, or women to apply for promotions, be this type of leader, not just assume that because there are no barriers that it's okay, but really be explicit in how you give people opportunities and let them know that they're out there. I think that's really key. >>Yeah. That brings up the point around work life balance, because, you know, I have a family of four, four kids it's stressful just in and of itself to have four kids, but then I go to the workforce and the same with women too. So there's also a home dynamic with leadership and biases and roles. Um, what's your take on any data on the how of that shifting persona realities, if you will, um, shapes the data. >>It's interesting because it's, it's something that we even talked about in the session that it's a struggle and, and, um, Bev career from Intel was talking about that. There's a period of time that actually is really tough to keep women in the workforce. And it's that time where you're growing your family, you're growing your career. And oftentimes things sort of struggle. And I, I read something recently around women in STEM careers, over a 10-year period, 42% of women drop out of the workforce in comparison to 17% of men. And so I think there's a lot, a ways to go in terms of being able to set up environments where working life is integrated, because it's, it's not even balanced anymore. It's integration. And how do you set up structures so that people can do that through how they work through how they connect with others. And, and to me, that's a big piece is how do you keep people in the workforce and still contributing in that critical point in time? And, you know, Intel hasn't figured it out. It's a tough challenge, >>Stamina. We're a big fans of women in tech, obviously because we love tech athletes. We'd love to promote people who are rock stars and technology, whether it's developers to leaders. And I also have a daughter, two daughters. And so two questions. One is women in tech, anything you could share that the data can talk to, to either inspire or give some insight and to, for the young women out there that might not have that cultural baggage, that my generation, at least our worse than older than me have from the previous bias. So motivating young daughters out there, and then how you deal with the career advice for existing women. >>So the motivating young women to get into tech, um, Bev shared a really absolutely fascinating statistic that between the ages of 12 and 18, it's incredibly important to have a male support model for young girls to get into STEM careers, that it was absolutely critical for their success. And it's funny because the question came up like, why can't that be a woman too? And what's interesting. And what we find is oftentimes we give men the short shrift when they try and support women, and we don't want to do that. We want to support men supporting women because when that happens, we all win. Um, and so I think that's a big piece of it is starting young and starting with male support as well as female support. So many women who, who cite men as, as he had mental was in that gray, you know, or in their daily life. And it's pretty important that they can feel that they can do that. >>And this goes back down the wiring data that you have the data on how we're were wired. It's okay, guys, to understand that it's not an apples to apples. So to speak, men are from Mars. Women are from beans, whatever that phrase is, but that's really what the data is. >>And being explicit to men to say, we want you to support women instead of having men take a back seat feeling like maybe this isn't my battle to fight. It's, it's really important to then encourage men to speak up to in those, those situations to, to think about sort of women in tech. One of, uh, a really interesting piece of research that I've seen is about team intelligence and what happens on teams and Anita Willy from Carnegie Mellon produced this really fascinating piece of research on the three things that a team needs to be more intelligent. It's not just getting the smartest people in the room with the highest IQ. That's a part of it. You want table stakes, you want to start with smart people, but she found that having women, more women on a team actually improved the team's overall intelligence, the collective intelligence and success of a team. So more women was the first one. The second was there's this ability and women tend to be better at it, but the ability to read someone's thoughts and emotions just by looking at their eyes. So it's called breeding in the mind's eye. So just taking a look and being able to sense behavior, um, and, and what someone's thinking and feeling, and then being able to adjust to that and pivot on that, not just focusing on the task at hand, but the cohesion of a team with that skill made a difference. >>It's like if it's a total team sport, now that's what you're saying in terms of how use sport analogy, but women now you see women's sports is booming. This brings up my, my, your, uh, awesome research that you just did for the folks out there. Stella was leading this information generation study and the diversity of use cases now with tech, which is why we love tech so much. It's not just the geeky programmer, traditional nail role. You mentioned team, you've got UX design. You have, um, real time agile. So you have more of a, whether it's a rowing analogy or whatever sport or music, collaboration, collaboration is key. And there's so many new disciplines. I mean, I'll share data that I have on the cube looking at all the six years and then even women and men, the pattern that's coming up is women love the visualization. It's weird. I don't know if that's just so it's in the data, but like data scientists that render into reporting and visualization, not like just making slides like in the data. Yeah. So, but they're not writing, maybe not Python code. So what do you guys see similar patterns in terms of, uh, information generation, it's sexy to have an iWatch. It's >>Cool. So like a cry from Intel on the panel, she gave a great statistic that actually, uh, it's more it's women that are more likely to make a decision on consumer tech than men. And yet a lot of the focus is about trying to build tech for men, uh, on the, you know, if consumer tech companies want to get this right, they need to start thinking about what are women looking for, uh, because, uh, they're the ones that are out there making these decisions, the majority of those decisions. >>Yeah. I mean, it's an old thing back in the day when I was in co, um, right out of college and doing my first startup was the wife test. Yeah. Everything goes by the wife because you want to have collaborative decision-making and that's kind of been seen as a negative bias or reinforcement bias, but I think what guys mean is like, they want to get their partner involved. Yeah. So how do, how do we change the biases? And you know, where I've talked to a guy who said, the word geek is reinforcing a bias or nerd where like, I use that term all the time, um, with science, is there, I mean, we had the, the lawsuit with Kleiner Perkins around the gender discrimination. She wasn't included. I mean, what's your take on all of this? I mean, how does someone practically take the data and put it into practice? >>I think the big thing is, you know, like I said, acknowledging that it exists, right? It's out there. We've been, I feel like our brains haven't necessarily adapted to the modern workplace and the challenges that we've dealt with because the modern workplace is something that was invented in the 1960s and our brains have evolved over a long time. So being able to handle some of the challenges that we have, especially on how men and women operate differently at the workplace, I think is key, but calling it out and making it okay to acknowledge it, but then counter where it needs to be countered where it's not right. And being explicit and having the conversations I think is the big piece. And that's what struck me with the Kleiner Perkins deal was let's have the conversation it's out there. A lot of times people are reticent to, to have the conversation because it's awkward and I need to be PC. And I'm worried about things. It's the elephant in the room, right. But it actually is. Dialogue is far better than leaving it. >>People are afraid. I mean, guys are afraid. Women are afraid. So it's a negative cycle. If it's not an out in the open, that's what I'm saying. >>And the idea is it's, what can we do collectively better to, to be more positive, to, to frame it more positively, because I think that makes a bigger difference in terms, in terms of talking about, Oh, we're different. How are we the same? How can we work together? What is the, the connection point that you bring, you bring, we all bring different skills and talents to the table. I think it's really taking a look at that and talking about it and calling it out and say, I'm not great at this. You're great at this. Let's, let's work together on what we can do, uh, more effectively, >>Okay. Team sports is great. And the diversity of workforce and tech is an issue. That's awesome. So I'd ask you to kind of a different question for both of you guys. What's the biggest surprise in the data and it could be what reinforced the belief or insight into something new share, uh, a surprise. Um, it could be pleasant or creepy or share it. >>Price to me is intuition. So we always talk about women having intuitions. I've had men say, you know, well, my wife is so intuitive. She kind of, she kinda gets that and I've had that in the workplace as well. And I think the biggest surprise for me was that we can now see, we've now proved the intuition. Intuition is a thing that women have, and it's about this kind of web thinking and connecting the dots. Yeah. So we sort of store these memories deep, deep inside. And then when we see something similar, we then make that connection. We call it intuition, but it's actually something it's a kind of a, you know, super recall if you like, and, and, and replaying that situation. But that I think was the biggest surprise to me, Amy. So I would think that the thing that, that always astonishes me is the workplace environment and how we set up environments sometimes to shoot ourselves in the foot. >>So, so often we'll set up, uh, a competitive environment, whatever it is, let's let's and it's internal competition. Well, it turns out that the way that the brain chemicals work in women is that competition actually froze us into, to stress or threat cycle much more easily than it does to men, but men need it to be able to get to optimal arousal. There's a lot of interesting research from Amy Ernest in, at Yale and, and that piece of how you can manipulate your environment to be more successful together to me is absolutely key. And being able to pull out elements of competition, but also elements of collaboration, you kind of knew it, but the science validates it and you go, this is why we need to make sure there's a balance between the two. So everyone's successful. So to me, that's the aha. I could listen to Amy all day and how we apply it to the workplace. That's the next big step. Yeah. >>Yeah. You guys are awesome. And thanks so much for sharing and I wish we could go long. We're getting the hook here on time, but is there any links and locations websites we can, people can go to to get more information on the studies, the science. So I, a lot of my day curating >>And looking for more research. So peak teams.com/blog is where I do a lot of my writing and suggestions. Um, it's peak teams, P E K T E M s.com. And so I run our blog and kind of put my musings every once in a while up there so that people can see what I'm working on. Um, but they can reach out at any time. And I'm on Twitter at, at peak teams geek. Speaking of geeks, I embraced the geek mentality, right? >>Well, we have, I think geeks comment personally, but, um, final point, I'll give you the last word, Amy, if you could have a magic wand to take the science and change the preferred vision of the future with respect to men and women, you know, working cohesively together, understanding that we're different decoupled in science. Now, what would you want to see for the environment work force, life balance? What would be the magic wand that you would change? >>I think being able to make women more confident by helping reduce bias with everybody. So being more keyed in to those biases that we have in those automatic things we do to shortcut and to be more aware of them and work on them together and not see them as bad, but see them as human. So I think that's my big takeaway is remove, remove more bias. >>Fantastic. Stella Lowe, and Amy Posey here inside the cube. Thanks so much. Congratulations on your great work. Great panel. We'll continue. Of course, we have a special channel on SiliconANGLE's dot TV for women in tech. Go to SiliconANGLE dot DV. We've got a lot of cube alumni. We had another one here today with Amy. Thank you for joining us. This is the cube. We'll be right back day three, bringing it to a close here inside the cube live in Las Vegas. I'm John Forney. We'll be right back after this short break.

>> live from Las Vegas, Nevada. It's the Cube covering E M C. World 2015. Brought to you by E. M. C Brocade and D. C. >> You're watching E m C World Live here on the Q. Looking Angles Flagship program. We go out to the event they start the season noise. I'm John Kerry of my coast Dude. Minutemen. Our next guest is a cube. Alumni have been on a cute many times before and back again. 2011 John Thompson is the CEO of Virtual Instruments and also the chairman of a company called Microsoft. Um, welcome back to the cubes. Nice to be about Great to see you in the A M World week didn't interview on Virtual Instruments with CEO, and we were really riffing on this whole idea of data instrumentation. And we it was really free Internet of things. So give us the update. What's going on with virtue Instruments here? I see Microsoft has a conference going on ignite. Even though you're chairman. The board. You're also the CEO of Virgin Instruments and you're gonna do some business here. What's going on? What business are you doing? Well, this is an important conference for virtual instruments. DMC is one of our strongest go to market partners, and candidly, many of their customers are virtual instruments customers. And so it's an opportunity for me to be here to spend time with our partners and our customers in one venue. Our business is doing quite well. We just had a very, very strong March quarter, which is always a little bit of a down quarter for most tech companies. But we were up 27 28% year over year for the calendar. Q. One so we feel pretty good about that. This is the most important quarter of the year, though, which is always the case in Texas. So we're hoping that we can knock the ball out of the park again this quarter. We launched our virtual wisdom for platform in the spring of last year, and it is gaining tremendous traction, certainly in the U. S. And around the globe. It is all about health utilization in performance of the infrastructure, and we've defined a model where you can look at an application inside that infrastructure, monitor its performance and its availability, and that idea is so critical in a world where everything will someday live in the cloud and will you will want to assure a level of performance and, quite frankly, a level of responsiveness to customers as they come on says it's a reset to share the folks out. This is not a new concept for you guys. We talked about this years ago. It's not like you woke up one boys. Hey, things is trendy. This data center in fermentation takes us quickly back. Where did it come from? Was an itch to scratch. What original product as you have and how does that morph into today's crazy, data driven world, where dash boring riel time is actually competitive advantage and now table stakes? Well, if you were to go back to the genesis of virtual instruments, we started as a small technology investment inside a larger company called Venice are that was trying to solve the inevitable performance problem in the fibre channel world. And as the market crashed in 7 4008 the team at Venice or had to decide, how are we gonna clean up our portfolio? And the result waas. They sold off the assets? Were we, in fact, created virtual instruments. So a small group of investors, led by Jim Davidson from Silver Lake and Michael Marks from Riverwood, helped to fund the original investment and virtual instruments. We've been at it now for about seven years. We have clearly evolved the product quite a bit since then, and we've captured a number of very, very strong venture capital investment so long away as we made the choice. That said, we need the shift from being a fiber channel company to be in an infrastructure performance management company because the inevitable movement to the cloud will drive an opportunity for us. Yeah, and you're a senior executive private equity. I mean, this is pretty much a big bet. There's a lot of money involved with private equity. So it wasn't like you're, like, throw in the Silicon Valley startup together. It was really like, Okay, there's big money behind it. Well, you guys, did you see it turning out this way? What? What was learning that have been magnified from that trajectory? Well, I think in the early days we thought the path was a little different than what we've actually followed. We thought the path waas that the fibre channel World was so big and it needed better visibility. This would in fact give the world better visibility in the fibre channel space. What we have observed, however, is that the entire infrastructure has become Maur and more opaque, and therefore you need to not just drive visibility in the storage layer, but across the entire converge staff. And so the platform that we have evolved is all about supporting this converged platform not just fibre Channel, but filed a storage not just VM where, but all virtualized server environments. And we believe that's, ah, multibillion dollar market. And that's why we were able to attract both private equity initially and venture capital later as we built out of product. It's interesting. You see some of these ideas come a come around full circle. I'm curious. Just in industry trend. Your your opinion on Veritas, you know, being spun out. It's it's It's both sad for me personally, but I think it speaks to how difficult the cultural integration might have been between the two companies. While I really had a vision back in the old four or five days of security and backup coming together, I think It was a really, really difficult thing to make happen in the context of what has evolved at Samantha, so the fact that they've chosen to spend it out, it's perhaps a little disappointing for me personally, but not a surprise. So what is your vision of security today? My understanding, You advise, even sit on the board of ah Lumia company. We've way we've talked to the company really, what's happening in security. So if you think about how security has evolved once upon a time, it was about protecting the device candidly and a cloud based world. It's going to be more about protecting the workloads as they move around. And that's one of the elements of what a lumia does, in fact, provide. Furthermore, I have believed for a very, very long time that as time goes on, security will have to get closer and closer to that which is deemed to be most critical. In other words, you can't protect all of the data. You can't protect all of the instances that air on the Web, but you can identify those that are most critical and therefore need a level of protection beyond what the standard would be. And so my belief is that companies like a Loom EO and others that will evolve will get closer to the workload, and we'll get closer to the data that's most critical. And so data classification and things of that nature will become much, much more important than they have. You're an investor in aluminum. You on the board are okay, so you're on the board of director and investor. We covered their launch. Great company. The cracking is low slides, as as Alan Cohen would say, they phenomenal funding round gone from stealth two years and now the big $100,000,000 really funding round massive guerrilla marketing. Still going on at the air say, was kind of clever. The perimeter lists cloud is a factor. And what tech enabled? Do you see the key thing? Alan Cohen described it as 1000 foot shoulds soldiers protecting assets because there's no more perimeter that no front door any more. What is the technology driver for that? Well, the whole idea behind the loom Eo, is to have a what I would call a portable policy enforcement engine that can move as the workload moves around the cloud. So policy management, security policy management has been a very, very difficult task for most large enterprises. So if I can define security policies for every server of where workloads can go to and from on that server and make sure that nothing violates that policy, hence I enforce it routinely. Oh, I can change. The dynamic of House security gets delivered in a cloud based world because no workload is gonna run in any single place on a cloud world. That workload is gonna move to where there is capacity to handle. I gotta ask you because we have a lot of people out there that follow tech business test tech athletes that you are. But also, you're a senior executive who has a lot of experience, and we could be presenting to Harvard Business School, Stanford Business School. I want to get your kind of business mind out to the audience. And that is, is that as an executive who's seen the big, big companies, the big battleships, the big aircraft carriers, from the IBM days to the M in a world of the nineties and the transformation of the Internet now in a complete shift, an inflection point with things like a Loom, Eo and Cloud and and Virtual instruments and the new Microsoft and the Silicon Angles and the crowd shots out there, What do you advise managers out there to operate from a management perspective. I mean, there's a classic business school numbers quarter on the challenges of going public, managing enormous dynamic technology change. So every theater is kind of exploding the technology theater, the business theater, the social theater as an executive. How would you advise someone as a CEO are rising growing startup how they should stitch themselves together? If you can draw in from previous experiences? Or is there a pattern recognition you can share? Well, it's It's never simply about the numbers, while the numbers air always important and the numbers will always be the underpinning of evaluation or whatever. In reality, it's about having a team that is able to rally around a leader with vision that says, Here's how we're gonna change the world. Here's how we're going to make an impact as this industry goes through, the natural inflection points that it always does. And if you look at what has occurred in this industry about every 8 to 10 years, something significant changes. And so a company that may have missed an opportunity six or eight years ago has another shot at it six or eight years later because of the inflection points that we go through. So it's important for the leader of a company toe. Believe that I can change the world based upon the industry that I'm a part of and have a compelling point of view about what changing the world means for that company and that team. And if you could get the team together around that idea, what about cloud and big data and mobile thes dynamics that you would? If someone just wants a roadmap for navigation or what decked me to go after, What would you say? What do you say? You know, get it all in the cloud or go poke at a duel are indeed new, agile management. Things were happening like, Well, I think it starts with what are the court confidence is that you have as a team or company, so you can't say g I'm gonna go and do cloud and oh, by the way, I have no confidence in the management infrastructure for large enterprises or I'm gonna go do mobile and I really have no experience in the mobile space whatsoever. So core competencies matter and leveraging the core strengths of the company matters now. Oftentimes, what companies will do its supplement their core strengths through M, and we'll go out and acquire something and bolted on the hard part of M and A, which is what we were referencing early around. Veritas is Can you integrate it? Can you really make it work after you bought it? Buying it is the easy part. Generating it and making it work is the really, really tough part. And arguably we didn't do is good a job as I would have liked with Samantha. And so basically you're saying is if you as an executive, you want to look at the winds of change for hand, get the sails up, if you will, to confuse the metaphor and get into that slipstream so you can actually drive and you can't. Being an amateur, you gotta actually have some competency. You have a leverage point. Look, one of the great things about this industry is it doesn't take some brilliant business leader to create a new idea. I mean, no one ever would have viewed Zucker Bird as a business leader or some of the young, really, really powerful CEO built phenomenal, phenomenal companies in this industry. But they had an idea, and they were able to create a team around that idea and go change the world. And that's what's so powerful about this industry that I've had the pleasure to be a part of for 40 some years. Yes. Speaking about CEOs that changed the industry, John Chambers announced that he's stepping aside from the CEO role this morning. So you know when you look back, you know John was one of the four horsemen of the Internet era and 20 years there. Chuck Robbins is coming in. He's been there since C. I think 97. What do you think of that move? And you know what's happening with Cisco in leadership for the big companies? Well, John's a really, really good friend, and I admire him for all of what he's done and Cisco and I wish him well as he makes this transition. Interestingly enough, the transition is to executive chairman, with the new CEO stepping in so What that says is that John plans that have a little more involvement, perhaps in what goes on in the company. Then I do it. Microsoft. My title is not executive chairman of Microsoft. Thank goodness I wouldn't want it to. But it also speaks to the fact that John spend the CEO. It just goes since 1995 like that. So he has an enormous amount of knowledge and insight about the company industry, its customers, partners, culture, all of those culture. And so all of those things will be valuable and important to the new CEO. And I think him stepping into that role is trying to leverage that. Cenedella came in and made his voice heard really instantly. And Microsoft has been a great company to watch, you know, since Auntie's came on board, you know, just Cisco need to make some bold moves or are they pretty stable where they are is kind of the dominant? That's a better question for John and CEO. I think what is clear is that all all companies, at some point after find a way to redefine and Sasha's role at Microsoft. He has redefined Microsoft as a cloud first mobile first, and that's all about recognizing. Were acts are gonna run on what devices and what kind of service is. And that redefinition, I think, is important for any industry leader, regardless of how long you just brought us to the tagline of this show, M C World is redefined. So any comments, How's the emcee doing it? Redefining themselves, I think the emcees a terrific company. Joe's a longtime friend of mine. I mean, I know Joe forever on. It's been amazing to see how it's gone from being a storage company to this federation of companies that have capabilities that are so broad and so diverse. I hope they don't get pushed to do something that isn't in the best interest of customers, but maybe enamored by some investors. The angel of the activist pressure. Yeah, that's always and that that's unfortunate, but I think they have a nice balance now. They have a huge installed base and this competitive pressure so they gotta push that. But I have to. I have to ask, is that? You know, I was getting some tweets earlier about Microsoft, and I know you, you know, you're only chairman of the board executive chairman. But you were involved in a very historic where you were on the executive search committee for the CEO replacement for Steve Balmer, of which they chose sake. Nutella Cube alumni We interviewed at the XL Partners Innovation Summit in Stanford that that's about culture. That's about transitions, about inflection points. And Sister used to mention Cisco. Not similar situation. But Microsoft is the legend company. I think the computer industry like an apple. Microsoft was their big part of the computer revolution. Big seismic changing. You were right there. Just share some color on what that whole experience like for you personally. And if you can share any insights to the audience, I know it's a sense might be sensitive topic. But what's that like? And, you know, the outcomes. Looking good. As he says, he's doing great. What? What can you share? Well, I think it would be fair to say that it was a more consuming process than I ever thought it would be. I went from being a new board member of Microsoft in the spring of 2012 to be in the lead independent director in the fall of 2012 to leading the search starting in the summer of 2013. I mean, I never could have imagine my involvement there changing that dramatically, Nor would I have imagined that searching for a CEO of a company would consume 80% of my time when I was also running a company. So for a period of about six months, it's like athlete right there. I had two full time jobs where I was on the phone all day, every day, trying to get something done for the eye and on the phone all day, every day, trying to get something done for Microsoft as well. It was, I would also have to say and incredibly incredibly exhilarating experience. I talked to some phenomenal leaders from around the world way had hard, long look anywhere we wanted at any CEO or candidate that we wanted, and we settled on someone who was a Tech athlete. We believe that the company was at a really, really important inflection point where over the course of the next 12 to 24 months, we're gonna have to make some really, really important technology decisions that would set the course from Microsoft for many, many years to come. And so, while there was much speculation in the press about this person or that person, and what a great business leader, that person waas What we, as a board concluded, was that what our company needed at that moment in time was a true technology visionary who could drive the strategy of the company because it had assets. I mean, they had a whole search thing that they quote missed on paper. But they had, like you said, they could come back at it again with being the subtle art of assets. Here, Cloud was built out. Everything was kind of like in place for that tech athlete on. And I think soccer has done an amazing job. I'm quite proud of them. I'm happy toe say I have some small part in that, but I'm or happy for the way he has executed in the job. I mean, he steps into the job with a level of humility but confidence that is so important for the CEO of a company of that size, and to maintain that cultural DNA because you have one of most competitive companies on the planet. A question to the point where they had to be almost broken up by the DOJ from the Bill Gates kind of DNA and bomber to continued, be competitive, live in this new era. Really tough challenge. Well, he's he's a bright guy. He, as I said, has great humility and has the respect of the team. And it's been interesting to see the internal shift behavior and attitude with a guy who I jokingly say he has two ears and one mouth and he uses them proportionately. And that's a very important lesson for someone trying to transform a company. You must listen more than you talk, and I think he does a great job. We try to do that. The Cuban we talk all day long way do interviews, but I gotta ask you back to virtual instruments. Okay, gets a good business going on with the emcee Goto partner about the anywhere in the federation of a partner with you as well, say, Is it all Federation? It's mostly through E M. C. And while the em wears of small V I customer, we don't do much with them on the go to market side on the go to market side. We rely more heavily, if you will. On AMC, that partnership has evolved. I mean, from the early days it was viewed as G. We're not sure who you are and what you do and whether or not you're competitive with us today, we have very, very common go to market processes around the globe. I'd love to see them stronger. I just left to cheese office in San GI Joe. We could doom. Or but when it's when it's all said and gone, this is one of the strongest go to market partners we have that's also shared the folks out there what they might not know about insurance, that you could share their hearing this now for the first time and working on the radar future of your business, your division product, extensive bility. Future of Internet of everything. Future Internet of things, whatever you want to put on a big data and the data center now, and the migration of cloud is all here. So at our core, we believe that every large enterprise will inevitably have some, if not all, of their work in the class. So the question is, how do you help them manage that inevitable migration to the cloud by de risking the migration and ensuring appropriate infrastructure performance management. Once you arrive there, we focus on the largest enterprises in the world. So unlike many tech startups, that will start with a midsize or small company and work their way up well, the largest banks in the universe, the largest insurance companies in the universe, the largest of every sector in the universe is a customer of the eye or will be someday. And that notion of solving very, very complex problems is something that our team has great pride in our ability to do that I want to get philosophical with you. You can for second kind of sit back and, you know, have a glass of wine and kind of talk to the younger generation out there with all your history on experience. How great of an opportunity for the young entrepreneurs and CEOs out there right now. Given the the confluence of the shift and inflection points, can you compare this to an error? We on the Cubes say It's like the PC revolution bundled in with the clients, terrorists and the Internet. All kind of at once do you agree? And would you say it? Guys, you have an amazing opportunity. Well, I think example of just how crazy it is. I I was driving to the airport this morning, and what I thought would be our long drive took two hours. Because there's so many people on the road in the Valley going to work. There's just so much going on in Silicon Valley right now. It is amazing. And for anyone who has a really, really great idea, the thing that's equally amazing is there's lots of capital out there to support those ideas. And so I would encourage any young entrepreneur who has a thought socialize your thought, Get it out so people can learn about it and then go get money to support and back that though. There's lots of money out there for good ideas. Lots of money. \ewelry officially taking the time coming out. Your busy schedule. CEO Virtual Instruments, chairman of Microsoft Here inside the Cube tech athletes is a big deal. You are one of the great great. Always have a conversation with you, sharing your thanks so much. Just the Cuban. Be right back with more insights and the signal from the noise at this short break

but cute at servicenow knowledge 14 is sponsored by service now here are your hosts Dave vellante and Jeff trick we're back welcome everybody Alan line wind is here he's the vice president and chief technology officer of the cloud platform and infrastructure components of service now all the stuff that you don't see it's sort of behind the curtains all the magic and the secret sauce Alan welcome to the cube thank you very much for everything so what's the what's going on what's new in the in the cloud platform you guys obviously started this before cloud was sort of even referred to yes cloud you know I mean I mean Fred talks about his vision and sore clouds in there but you know really cloud started mid-2000s 2006 and then really started taking off so the latter part of the decade you guys kind of maybe not predated but so the same time you know so what's how was the platform evolved I mean the platform is really evolved during people like to talk about cloud when I think about cloud that's a little bit beyond water vapor so what we end it's been a hard time doing the very early to make silicon and make aluminum actually perform something for our customers the cloud platform has really evolved into being a platform that allows people to develop applications that are either both for IT or for the entire enterprise that's really what we're sort of here to talk about from service now is perspective in this whole show is what we've done on the platform is beyond IT and it can power services for the whole enterprise so we've scaled our cloud significantly we're in eight different regions across the planet 16 different data center locations and we're continuing to grow globally on our cloud right now so these data center locations that you used to you're building out data centers you we're actually using wholesale and retail space so we're using our data center partners and we're building out large cases of infrastructure that we own and operate on our own okay so so just make sure I understand so you're not building mega data centers yeah that's not your strategy that's right can you talk about why that's not strategy yeah I mean we're not building on mega datacenters like maybe they hear from facebook and google or other folks we're actually using our data center partners to build the infrastructure sort of meet our customer needs we don't necessarily host people or do sort of infrastructure services like those guys do we end up doing is we're in a building very specific cloud platforms in restructure for the enterprise it just turns out a footprint for that just isn't as big as other folks and we scale it as we need to do and there's confusion also about and I wonder if you could help us clear it up you're sort of your approach to multi-tenancy let's chat all right so you don't have a multi-tenancy that's remodel you've got more of a hybrid model can you talk about that a little bit and what the advantages are yeah absolutely there's folks that have a multi-tenant model what that really means is that multiple customers data is interlaced and and are intersected with in the same data structures within the same data sounds scary it is and can do that scary but we've actually ended up doing is segmenting both the application logic into virtual machines per customer and then actually dividing up the database itself on a per customer basis or every one of our customers has their own unique database process unique to them their own tables their own data they're on isolation and they have application luggages that's unique to them as well that's very different from multi-tenancy where you have a large database and a large piece of infrastructure that a lot of people share one of the biggest advantages for that for our customers is really about availability if I'm a big huge multi-tenant architecture I need to take all hundreds and hundreds of customers in this pod and move them somewhere else because of a failure that's a scary operation but we actually have the ability to do is move individual customers around our cloud and provide a very high available solution for them because of the fact in the way we've architected so if I'm a customer and and you're on a sales call and you tell me that I'm I good I want that right I'm like totally cool with that I'll tell you something right now if ok now if i'ma we're not quite big enough yet although there's some new products are coming up appeal to us but now if I'm let's say I'm an investor I might say well jeez aren't I going to get better leverage if I go multi-tenancy think Amazon and some of you know larger players also that response to that yeah I mean that's sort of an interesting distinction when people think about multi-tenancy their verses single term see what we call it what you actually find is that they think that the multi-tenancy allows you to scale the hardware better but the truth is what we've done when we actually called multi-instance is a hardware can be shared but the actual customer deployment the Java Virtual Machine the database for that customer is laid down on that shared harders we're actually getting good economics at the hardware and we're giving customers isolation they want we think it's very unique in industry loss is just really exciting things well we heard actually was interesting at oracle openworld which was here i want to say two years ago yeah so it was 2012 maybe was even 2011 was 2011 Ellison really railed on multi-tenancy yeah he railed on work day he railed on on on salesforce and said multi-tenancy is a bad thing you don't want to do it in the application now I think I know 12c changes that I'm not sure I know he did a flip flop Larry does that a lot but um but but your your your your dogma if you will is not going to flip flop rights right you guys got you you can see this am I correct well let me ask you does the scale you know to you know huge Heights that Frank's lubin once they hit yeah I mean we have 11,000 12,000 customer instances in the clouds individual instantiations but let me give you a quick fact here for knowledge we spun out 23,000 additional instances so we have the ability to scale this model in a very dynamic way and a very well orchestrated way we think it really helps our customers one of these I like to say about multi-tenancy is I get why it's good for the cloud provider I get why the folks that build multi-tenancy build it because you're right it you both at once you carve it up or bunch of pieces for a customer customers data is interlaced okay I'm not sure why I want that as a customer customer wants out isolation that's what we provide well giving both leverage of hardware and isolation of data yeah because again a conceptual you can see how there might be some some margin advantages but then then the big question to me a security sure know what kind of what kind of security nuance wants not the right word does it ease the security requirements does it make your security cleaner you know easier to scale replicate etc you talked about that a little yeah I mean it clearly makes our application logic easier because they viewed portion of the application is talking to that individual database instance for that individual customer but our security focus is really focused on protecting those instances from the various threats so we're always looking at threats on the Internet we're always adding our perimeter firewalls we're already doing our third party audits we're doing a penetration test so just like any other cloud provider we're continually updating our security model and making sure we're advancing and trying to stay one step ahead of bad guys but because we have customer data that is segmented and isolated it does make our security model easier and more straightforward for the customer by using a lot of open source in the back end yeah we do do a bunch of my soup of open source for the databases of course right we do a bunch of apology on the front end using Mongo right we are using Mongo to help us get our document store for a larger customers that's right what kind of effect if any did heartbleed have on you guys yeah we looked at heart bleed and we we looked at the effect of it we didn't really see much in effect we weren't using systems are affected by that yeah awesome so Alan we've been covering a lot of data center stuff absolutely and there's a lot of interesting innovation that's happening in the infrastructure we're cooling and our and segmentation and all kinds of interesting things where's the line of innovation in the data center between your stuff and the infrastructure provided that you're working with yeah so we spend a lot of time actually focused on the actual sort of server platform storage platform communication between the web servers in the network we don't spend a lot of time on maybe hot aisle containment or cold out containment worried about you know efficiency of the building or air flow through the building we spend a lot of time sort of utilizing the best practices there so we go look for our data center providers that are really driving that peewee number down to the level 10 level but we're not architecting the building we'll look for those providers and then we'll deploy our equipment in a way that takes advantage of that you know we're following and using some of the practices from local compute we're looking at the next generation networking hardware and networking software that's out there and we're really sort of leveraging everything that they're building on the data center itself and then I know there's a lot of data data regulations that are driving kind of the location of your data centers or where he says you have 16 that's right they're basically at eight locations double located that's where if I recall a country's yeah yep so there's still some some open area that you need to penetrate based on customer and demand that you haven't gone yet or where the next one's going to be yeah we're going to build with the customers ask us to build we built into Switzerland and Geneva and Zurich because of that we built in a Canada for data sovereignty issues we're building into Brazil we're building in Asia right now Hong Kong and Singapore so we're going to kind of go over the customer demand takes us oh it's a big question on on Germany and this came up actually we're at the AWS reinvent we did the age of aw our summit and Amazon doesn't have a data center in Germany sure don't have a data we do not turn out right but of course everybody knows german law but everybody knows but but the the sort of urban legend is German losses you got a store data in Germany when we asked amazon this they said well we have a location in ireland that's part of the EU is that a similar response that you guys track we have amsterdam and london and we serve the EU countries ramps down so if I'm a German customer I would store my data there yeah right I mean that would be the default I mean we actually might have a German customer that want to be in the US but we actually had our customers pick which region of the world that want to be deployed in and we deploy on their behalf in there that's a prerequisite of going through the process right you use wage in a store your data that's right and then that's a sales guys figure that out so I so I asked actually i'll ask you as well the Amazon perspective has that ever been tested you know in the court of law do we actually know that this stands up cuz you always hear so much from the the anti amazon crowd oh well you can't choose where your data is stored that's not true certainly not true with you that's right and Germany Brazil very strict they actually have a location in Brazil but but so are you comfortable that it's consider compliant with German law and in this instance do you have those conversations or customers I mean obviously you do business in Germany yeah i mean i'll say my last name is Austrian German but I'm not well-versed in German like everything people tell me I know we can deploy and it's always a good answer without a lawyer okay I am NOT a liar but it's not stopping sales right not something i mean i've seen this again there's so much chatter and noise out there yeah but none of those misperceptions people like to throw that thought out there they like to say you can't do business I haven't had that objection I'm sure we may run into it but right now it's not top of mind good it was interesting it at a pro Conal i would actually had a lawyer on Richard on every often on the Cuban he said you know there's even different data laws in Massachusetts from Connecticut you know Mike well where is the data I mean especially the cloud and is distributed you're talking about across state borders and it hasn't really been challenged and it apparently it hasn't yet or it's going to get really nasty because cloud just by its very nature stuffs distributed that's right it's replicated it's all over the place so it's everywhere from so everybody uses Germany but he was talking about the difference between two borders border states so it could be interesting at some point in time should we talked earlier about my sequel was really was surely the the data platform that you started that's right and then Mongo came in recently didn't it within a year or two we end up doing is we we deploy the master database so the reads and writes in my sequel we also have capabilities in the platform that when we start to scale the hardware we can add what's called we replicas so we can add sort of versions of my sequel that can take transactions that are read-only and then for people that have large document stores you're doing attachments are doing forums are doing images things are really document-based we can actually deploy Mongo and then we can use Mongo for that particular type of transaction in that system as well so that's what you use in long ago that's okay that wasn't clear to me and that's relatively new initiative is it not yeah came out in Calgary which was last year was that release right okay member i'm talking about it last year i think it at no 13 that's right okay so what's what's next for you guys you know behind the curtain which I it's not really behind the curtain many customers would say if I'm hurting right now that's it but you guys didn't you know it's not like is this is a mean well I guess it is party in marketing but you know you don't be talking about products you're talking about value but it's great we have an opportunity to speak to guys like you actually you know running the factory right yeah so what's next what's what a customer is asking for what are the innovations that you guys are working on yeah i think what customers are really asking for is for us to take the cloud platform in the infrastructure and really to evolve it to be that hardened highly available persistent you know people want to talk about the cloud being like electricity being always on we obviously strive for that but like any other business we we have issues you know hardware does go break and we does booming overnight we have to make sure we perfect it we're constantly tuning that we're focused very much on availability you'll see something tomorrow we're actually going to show customers their individual availability as opposed to this sort of larger distributed availability if you will talk about we're also looking into more automation so that way things that generally break that we now have humans intervene with we want to have that automation kick off automatically and then have people automatically have have the machines do that automatically instead of the humans and we're spending a lot of time just really focused on keeping the cloud alive keeping the cloud available and making sure it is kind of behind the curtain yeah invisible is always good right you know I asked Fred this morning and I'll ask you cuz I didn't fully grasp the answer and I want to want to get pressing at this fred was maybe a little over my head or was i don't know maybe I just didn't get it but so the question I had is so you're not really like the mega data center right we talked about earlier you're not like Amazon or Facebook or Google but you know you're growing you could you're getting to a scale that's quite large and you can you can see you know the future you could be very very large today you've got you know n number of applications it's not overwhelming and the question I ask for fred was working a sort of architecture question in database than the database world you've got transactions you're locking on the database the record that's one one application says I got it and then releases it then the next one has it as you grow out the applications my question the fred was does that become problematic do you get no queuing problems performance issues scale issues and he said his answer if I could summarize and I hope I get this right was especially we're not a heavy locking environment and so on number two there's a lot of other things that go on engagements that go on outside of that lock so you didn't see it as a challenge because of the nature of the applications and and I guess the architecture itself but as you grow to massive scale does that potentially become a problem have you architected around that do you have to architect around that or am I just not understanding it yeah i mean i think if we were multi-tenant where we had thousands of customers sharing a single database doing with those locking issues and the similar issues we'd have that issue but fortunately because every customer gets their own version of their own unique database they're just worried about the applications that they're running so what we end up doing is going to monitoring the hardware and monitoring the databases for transaction rates per customer and as this transaction rates per customer as they add applications as they add users as they're adding joins and lists and building forms and creating services like Fred talked about this morning we can actually find out if their database is starting to see issues and if their particular database to start to see issues we can then go to point B but because we can go deploy things like Mongo on a customer by customer basis so we don't have this Gale issue per se we have the monitor the individual customer transaction rate issue and make sure we're always automating and always upgrading the infrastructure to match yeah ok so you've obviously thought about this problem and the customer has to be quite large to even encounter the problem that's right and then you've got methods techniques approaches even I don't even call it brute force approaches we can we can solve it more silica there are cases where the bigger box wins right yeah Moore's Law wins you can you can add more metal to the clouds so and you can make a bigger so the point of all the reason I'm asking all these questions is not just for sort of you know academic or theoretical cures is there is this a potential constraint to your growth down the road and I'm hearing no it's not yeah we don't see it as a constraint some of our biggest customers are running very very large transaction rates regular scale both the core metal to actually drive those transactions as well as tune the system and tune the way the database behaves that way those interactions you're talking about those locks those joins or select statements can actually be handle by the system in a very efficient manner and what do you make of all this you know it's sort of started at at vmworld a year or so ago with the whole software-defined meme and the acquisition of nice Sarah software-defined networking now they're talking about software-defined storage you certainly see that from the hyperscale guys what do you make of that is that is that how does that affect your world well you're talking to guy that actually worked on a software-defined networking company I founded a company called viata in my path to know Coach brocade actually bought right so I believe in the sufferer Defined Networking I believe that software and algorithms running the metal makes a lot of sense our automation our workflow orchestration tools we have on the platform are what we use to bend our metal in the way we like for our customers and I think really putting logic into the software and learning a software actually change the infrastructure is the way for the future and so thinking about your storage and your network and yours your compute infrastructure you're sort of buying off the shelf that's right standard servers are you buying from ODMs or a combination we do we'd a little both we actually look at our servers on an annual basis we evaluate both ODMs that are in white boxes as well as your typical OEMs and then we're looking to understand the transaction rates and the performance of those particular pieces of hardware we do a price performance evaluation and we sort of upgrade and continue to migrate the farm forward and how about the storage and you buying big giant containers or not as big sands we're not so its commodity storage it's chemist or horizontally scaled across the service we don't believe in centralized storage model no fiber channel no InfiniBand no fiber to know and your stack is your stack our stack is on you've written your own stack to do replication and data migration and run app shots the replication side is actually using my sequel binlog replication okay the backup itself is actually using some open source tools as well as some technologies you stuck on top of it we actually call it sm vault for servers no vault and we've actually developed both a hybrid of open source and our own technologies to make that work do you use tape we do not use tape no tape no euro tape yeah i think frankly i'm not surprised Frank salute with the kind of it yeah and what about the networking what's the strategy there yeah from the networking point of view we use commodity here as well from you know the big two vendors out there cisco and juniper we're continually looking to upgrade we're continually looking to drive layer through technologies down close to the user and have a very reliable very done system let me give you an example in every data center cage location we have at least three tier one providers we have a fully read on the network all the way from the internet through the firewalls through the little answers all the way down to the servers in the rack and we just believe a high-availability enterprise-grade top the bottom and and what about this notion of converged infrastructure you're seeing that a lot is that's something that you're you're looking at you're staying away from you're adopting or we actually think it makes a lot of sense you know I'm not going to tell you we're doing it right now because it's it's pretty bleeding edge and we want to be highly available for the enterprise but this idea of a converged network and systems infrastructure that works together with automation again it's just part of our platform part of our DNA so kind of a single throat to choke and yeah reduce passed me at Pat patch management just a block of infrastructure that that's sensible for you absolutely i mean from our point of view the ServiceNow cloud platform would be that orchestration and automation this is like filled day for me being able to ask of a practitioner that's that's actually building out a big animatic cloud you know sounds awesome and okay well let's see so we hit on s the end we are you here on all the pieces here i guess i think i'm out i think i think i'm thinking about anytime you want yeah that's fantastic i really appreciate the insights you know cuz you know a lot of the lot of the cloud suppliers don't like to talk about you know the internal plumbing but i think it's important you know your customers want to know i mean at the end of the day you don't build a great you know multi-billion dollar business without understanding how infrastructure works in the architecture of the infrastructure I'm a really strong believer that our applications are driving Enterprise forward and I'd have a hard time talking to the cios I talked to you on a regular basis without convincing them but the infrastructure they are relying on for those applications is as solid as it gets do you see the need I do have another one so do you set the need you know remember the early days we all lose I all thought okay here's here comes you know guys like Amazon its commodity infrastructure software lead that's going to lead into the enterprise you're starting to see that happen now but now Amazon's kind of done a one-eighty that's right they're going highly customized infrastructure there's they won't show us their servers but they'll show us so you know no some odm server that's super dense and they say we blow that away because they control their data centers do you see that type of customization requirement for your servers and for your free for your networking we spend time looking at that as well I won't say perhaps we do it quite in-depth as Amazon don't run quite the same size farm they do but we do look at you know the motherboards and the PCI cards and this the the flash disk that's in there the SSD we spend time understand the bios we spend the time understanding how many ports were going to connect to the top Iraq switch we spend time specking all that I mean we're full heart and enterprise platform and our customers depend on us to do that so we have to we have to do that diligence are you using fun all right we still got time are you using flash how are you using it yeah we are using flash we find that the flash arrays we use fusion-io and for those s SD cards we put them into our higher-end database servers from moving actually off spinning media onto flash for the entire farm and one of the way we use it is it helps us get I ops out of the database servers and it actually helps in replication because the way replication works is I'm operating data center a I do my transaction in that database I write it out to the flash because the database is in memory I send it over the parasite the parasites gotta read it off disc and rerun that transaction and keep that replication in sync so that I oh actually does help us keep replication going so using percona my sequel or no no okay so do you raising are on my signal okay do you do atomic rights with fusion we are doing some rights for fusion yes yeah okay so you're essentially bypassing the scuzzy stack and writing directly to we have ability to do that with a new fusion on your driver so I'm not sure they're widely deployed it does it have potential absolutely not it's an amazing performance you can go straight from memory straight to SSD just like you're acting a ram chip why wouldn't we want to not only am I limiting the spinning disk I'm eliminating the overhead of the the storage protocol we'd love to be able to do that yes okay that's understanding the life of the flash / David's lawyers article that we covered the other day because I written specifically for flash as opposed to written for disk how about object stores that's something that you you know we generally don't have a ton of object stores that we do but when we do their document types are attachments to an incident their graphics on a particular application they're part of a workflow that pops up or resent something to the customer and if that is sort of documents become heavy transactional types for reads in the database put those on Mongo okay so and you're doing sort of a combination of block and file or it's all blocked it's all block all block okay well file except I guess what you doing in manga course violence or quasi object that's right awesome I'm having a field day I really appreciate all the insights you know it's this is good i'm actually any the second watch this several times i mean i mean the truth is for us it's all about like i said it's all about talking about folks about infrastructure we think the infrastructure is the core foundation for everything we do in the enterprise apps the apps are really what our customers are about letting them be creators and letting them do our applications but let's face it you know we build the cloud and the club's got to be solid to run those apps my last question so you we've been talking about all these cool innovations when do you see these or do you see these seeping into the the enterprise on-premise do you see that as a sort of viable approach for CIOs or or in your view are they just going to sort of outsourced it mostly to the cloud over the next decade I'm pretty clearly biased at the moment but you know I over your application driven we're talking about infrastructure fair enough from the side I mean I think the things that we're doing in the cloud and the infrastructure are sort of leading-edge I do you think the enterprises are going to adopt that but I'll be honest you there are certain enterprises are ahead of us right there are certain folks that are thinking one or two steps ahead of us because rat just a bigger scale than we are almost though yeah not most but there are some we've learned from them in their banks and yeah i'm thinking the big banks the big big financial institutions we spend time with them learning what they're doing inside so we can actually make the cloud better and they're sharing with you okay absolutely because they're trying to learn too yeah they're ready one happens to somebody that's running on bailing wire right yeah that's amazing innovations actually going on in financial services and it's like the the downturn ever happened yeah well thanks very much for five years all right great stuff keep it right there buddy Jeff Rick and I'll be right back we're live from 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