>>Yeah. Welcome back to a W s reinvent 20 twenty-one. This is the live. In addition, the last year, of course, it was virtual. This is probably the most important hybrid event of the year. Over 20,000 people. We have two sets here at the Cube. My name is David. I'm really excited to have Caroline see more on the vice president of product marketing at Serato, which is now an H p e company. And Daniel, who is the director of worldwide partner Essays at A W s. Folks, welcome to the good to see you. >>Yeah, great to be here. So, >>Caroline, you got some news. Why don't we start their hard news? We always like to start with that. >>First of all, I think I just like to talk a little bit about the acquisition because it has been acquired by H. P. And in September, we announced, um, disaster recovery as a service is part of the Green Lake platform. And so that's really exciting. Both from, uh, customers as well is also H B customers. But the innovation continues here at a W s reinvent, we are announcing a new solution 02 in cloud, which is a disaster recovery for Amazon. Easy to, um, and if I think about the value that it brings to the customers, it's delivering orchestrated disaster. Recovery is delivering that simplicity at scale and scale is very important aspect because it will deliver that from tends to thousands of work clothes and as well, it's helping organizations to drive more operational efficiencies around their processes. So that's sort of a nutshell of the news. The cloud for a W s >>great. Thank you for that. So I wanna ask you, obviously, in lock down, people look to the cloud. Uh, and you know, data protection used to be just back up, and then people realize that recovery is important, but it used to be a bolt on an afterthought. You sort of launch the application of the service. And so we got to protect this thing and whatever and throw it on there that that's unacceptable. Today, if you're not going to run your digital business with a bolt on, So what? Our customers telling you in terms of what they want to see from their data protection portfolios and how are you seeing the ecosystem and a W s helping them to integrate that >>absolutely well to your point, the pandemic has absolutely accelerated a lot of businesses movement into the cloud. So companies that hadn't formerly thought about using cloud technologies are now doing that. And for them, in order to have a very simple and easy and scalable data protection solution, is critical for them to feel comfortable into moving into a W s. And so that's what we're seeing from a lot of customers. Um, and of course, back to your point about recovery with the challenges around ransomware, Um, that is definitely an area where a lot of companies have just done their back up. But they're also testing it and making sure that it's something that they know that they can rely on, um, as they moved there, workloads into the club. >>And speaking of ransomware, I mean, it's just front and center. Anybody can be a ransomware. Today they go in the dark web by ransomware service. They put a stick into a server and then bad things happen. Hopefully that that individual ends up in handcuffs, but not always so when we've seen Ransom's getting paid $40 million ransom's multi-million dollar. And we all know about the fact that our front and center So what are you seeing in terms of the customer base? How How h b n z two helping and where does a W s fit? Maybe you could start off Caroline. >>Great question, because I think from the perspective, we look at it from the need for recovery. Uh, strategy as part of your overarching, um, security and prevention is is one aspect that you always need two prevention. But to us, it's a matter of not if you're going to be attacked. It's when and when that gets through your firewall. And so you need to be able to have a recovery strategy in place that allows you to recover in minutes to set to within seconds of when that when an attack actually happens. And, um, I can give a case in, for example, for there's a company 10 Carter Protective fabric, textiles manufacturing company, MULTI-MILLION business. And they suffered to to a tax crypto attack first time, and they were using more traditional, um, back up to take. And it took him two weeks to recover having been attacked, and they suffered significant data loss, and then they deployed photo photo. Um, unfortunately, a little while later, they were attacked a second time with more sophisticated case of So it continues. Um, but this time the recovery was very different. What happened was that they were able to recover within minutes and they had seconds of data loss. And that is because of r c d p technology C D. P. Being continuous data protection. And that is with our replication and a unique journaling capability that allows you to, uh, set up the different checkpoint. So you have thousands of recovery points and you can recover to a specific recovery point with within seconds of that attack. Very, very powerful. >>I wanna ask you a question and what Caroline was just talking about with the classic metrics in this business r P O R T r P o recovery point objective. Always say, how much data do you want to lose? And people say none. Okay, how much? What kind of budget do you have? So that's always been the trade-off, although, as you mentioned, it's getting a little bit more cost-effective and then recovery time objective. How long does it take you to get back up. Absolutely. So so. Those are some of the concepts that you were talking about. I wanna ask you, Daniel, it feels like an Caroline. You feel like data protection is now becoming. It's certainly a tight adjacent to overall security. It's not security per se sick of it, so but it's but it's becoming. The lines are blurring. How do you see that you have a shared responsibility model? Where does this whole topic fit in? >>Well, I think lots of companies are really finding a lot of value in their data, right. Whereas, you know, perhaps years ago it was less. It was easy to hang on to it, to actually make it valuable to do metrics and analytics on it to do machine learning, perhaps on it. And so, by having, um, products such as the product, you know, they're now able to hang on to that data and make sure that they have it in perpetuity so that they can do what they need to do on it. So, yes, we're seeing, you know, companies that were traditionally storage cos thinking about security, security cos thinking about data, so yes, all of those lines are being blurred for sure. And I think that, you know, as far as the short security model we think of the you know, we think of our partners and ourselves, obviously as extensions. And we're really looking to have the best customer experience that we can >>can I think every company security company, Obviously you impact enterprise care a lot about security A W s. I don't know any company because I don't really care about security. That's that's not my swim land out of business. If you If you had that attitude now. So from from your standpoint, where does it fit inside of you know, you're you're thinking, How are you guys thinking about security and data protection? Back up and recovery? Is it all just coming together or they still kind of separate entities? >>No, you're absolutely right. It is coming together, and what we're seeing is we're having a lot more conversations with ISO's, um so the more the security offices of organizations and I think what's happening is that's where the budget is to. And so you're saying they're sort of the working together on the I T and also the Office of Security to um so we're having more conversations there, and we see that, as I mentioned before, the recovery strategy is a key element of our focus. And what we can do is part of the overarching strategy of an organization. >>So what? How should we think about the cloud? Is it another layer of protection? Um, is it a replacement for tape? Maybe not, but we need as much protection as possible. So how should we think about the cloud in the context of data protection? >>Well, the cloud, Yeah, absolutely. Um can provide an alternative to tape or, um disc, for example, of this year. We also added support for a mutability preserved for A W S. With so we are ensuring in the fact that you know you can be changed so that that's absolutely critical. >>So that's a a right once read only technology. That's a service that you tap. So your integrating zero was integrating with that capability. So that's another layer of protection. That's another layer of protection. And then, of course, you know there's there's gaps, is another part of the strategy. So let's talk strategy for a minute. What's the I know it's not one size fits all, but what are you seeing as best practice strategies for customers to protect themselves against traditional just human error? Cyber attacks? What's the what's the sort of prevailing approach? How should we think about that? >>Well, I mean, you're absolutely right. Those the, you know, the filed elections, the database corruptions, and so our solutions, that is, our continuous data protection. It absolutely is, um, the ability to be able to get that granular level of recovery, which you can do with backups. I'm not saying that backup isn't part of your overall strategy, but if you're actually trying to recover quickly and within seconds to whether it's an attack to whether it's a file deleted, a database corruption, you need that continuous data protection. And that's something that you need to us that we've been delivering since the day that um was formed. So >>that's your secret sauce is it is a very granular ability to dial down based on your r p o. That's requirements based on the application requirements, uh, and then bring in the cloud for things like mutability. Maybe gapping. Maybe Last resort is still the last resort. I don't know. Maybe >>there. So, um, you know, a w s to be a target for disaster recovery. So all back up. >>You talk about that? >>Yeah. So, with what we have enabled is first of all, if you want to, um, my great, your work clothes to a W s. And we're seeing an awful lot of that. We provide that capability. So the mobility aspect, if you are looking at instead of an on premises disaster recovery site, you can use a W S D R site. Um, And if you want to back up to a W s and use, um, cost efficient storage, we support that with cloud tearing and mutability. And as I say today, we're announcing cloud for a W s, which is once you've got your work clothes in a W s. We can protect them now in, um, in a W s itself. So the full spectrum. And then earlier this year, we announced for communities for US work clothes, So we're really trying to ensure that we can protect any A W s workload wherever it is. >>So I look around here pretty impressive given that we're in the second year of a pandemic here, pretty packed floor. But the ecosystem is just exploding. That's gonna make you feel good. Cos like choosing to partner with a W s leaning in writing to your cloud-native fooling. Maybe give us the update on how you see this partnership. >>Well, I mean, just to Caroline's earlier point, you can see how Xero is continuing to innovate, right? And that's really key. So, um, having a cloud-native solution and then also having a solution that works for us. We're seeing a lot of companies thinking about containers thinking about server lists. And so, you know, the best partnerships that we have are the ones in which they're innovating with us continuously. And I've known about since I started in 2014. So they've been around for a long time, and they're continuing, um, to do that. And they are working closely with us to do P O. C. D. S. And and to help our customers really get what they need, um, in the data protection space and continuing to innovate, which is >>your customers, they want that they need that your your deep into data protection. Yes. You're scale of cloud But you're not going to have the the capabilities of Stack. So that one plus one hopefully is greater than to How do you where can we find out more information about you know, the new solutions? What's the what's the call to >>action culture as well? A couple of things. We've, uh we just We just launched deserted for a W s hands-on lab. And what that does is allow in your own time in your own environment to be able to try with a W S as a target and back up. Um, so we've just launched that and that enables you to see how it works with a W S. We also have for communities, um, lab as well, so you can see how it works with a K s. Uh, coming soon, we're going to have to in cloud lab that you can actually see how to protect your workload in the cloud in a W s. So those are the really the best ways to be able to Well, for a call to action is try. The lab really is >>awesome. Guys, thanks so much for coming to the Cube. Very important topic and keep up the good work. >>Thank you. Thank you. Very well. So >>we're seeing the evolution of data protection rethinking data protection in 2020. No longer is it a Bolton cloud modernization with deep stacks. Fine granularity for your r p o. But also quick recovery protection from Ransomware. It's a whole new world, and we're here to cover it. My name is David. You're watching the Cube, the leader in high tech coverage. We'll be right back. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Mm, yeah.

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto, in Boston connecting with alt leaders all around the world, This is a CUBE conversation. >> Hello everybody, this is Dave Vellante and welcome to this Breaking Analysis. I'm here with Erik Bradley, who's the managing director of ETR and runs their VEN program. Erik good to see you. >> Very nice to see you too Dave. Hope you're doing well. >> Yeah, I'm doing okay hanging in there. You know, you guys in New York are fighting the battle. Looks like we're making some progress here so, you know, all the best, you and your family and the wider community. I'm really excited to have you on today because I had the pleasure of sitting in on a CIO/ CISO panel last week. And we're going to explain sort of what that's all about, but one of the things ETR does that I really like is they go deeper with anecdotal information and it's almost like in-depth interviews in these round tables. So they compliment their quarterly surveys, and their other drill down surveys, with other anecdotal information for people in their community. So it's a tried and true survey practice that adds some color to the dataset. So guys if you bring up the agenda, I want to share with the audience what we're going to talk about today. So, we'll talk a little bit about, you know we just did intros, I want to ask Erik, what ETR VENN is and then we'll go through some of the guests, but if we go back to Erik, explain a little bit about VENN and the whole process and how you guys do that. >> Yeah sure, we should hire you for marketing. You just did a great job, actually, describing that, but about three years ago what we decided was, ETR does an amazing job collecting the data. It can tell you what's happening, who it's happening to and when it's happening. But it can't always tell you why it's happened. So leveraging a lot of my background in twenty-plus years in journalism and institutional Wall Street research, we decided to take the ETR community, the people that actually take the surveys, and start doing interviews with them and start doing events with them. And enable to doing that, we're basically just trying to compliment the survey findings and the data. So what we always say is that ETR will always give you the quantitative answer and VENN will give you the qualitative answer. >> Now guys, let's bring up the agenda slide again, let's take a look at the folks that participated in the round table. Now, for ETR's clients, they actually know the names and the titles and well the company that these guys work for. We've anonymized it for the public. But you had a CIO of a Global Auto Supplier, a CISO of a Diversified Holdings Firm, who actually had some hospitality exposure but also some government contract manufacturing exposure. Chief Architect of a Software ISV and a VP and CISO of a Global Hospitality Resort Chain. So you had three out of the for, Erik, were really in industries that are getting hit hard. Obviously the software company maybe a little bit better. But maybe you can add some color to that. >> Well actually the software company, unfortunately, was getting hit hard as well because they're a software ISV that actually plays into the manufacturing space as well. So, this particular panel of CIOs and CISOs were actually in a very hard hit industries. And are going to make sure we do two more follow-ups with different industry verticals to make sure we're getting a little bit of a wider berth and collect all of that information in a better way. But coming back to this particular call, the whole reason we did this, and as you know, you spoke to my colleague and friend, Sagar Kadakia, who is the Director of Research for ETR, and we were nimble enough to actually change our survey while it was in the field, to start collecting data on what the real-time impact was on the COVID-19 pandemic. We were able to take that information, extrapolate it, and then say okay let's start reading out to these people and dig deeper. Find out why it's happening and even more so, is it permanent? And which vendors are going to win and which vendors might lose from it. So that was the whole reason we set up the series of calls. We've only conducted on so far. We have another one this coming Tuesday as well with four entirely new panelists that are going to be from different industry verticals because, as you astutely pointed out, these verticals were very hard hit and not all of them are as hard as others. So it's important to get a wider cross-section. >> So, guys let's take a look at some of the budget impacts the anecdotal evidence that we gathered here. So let me just scan through it and then Erik, I'll ask you to comment. So, you know, like Erik said, some hard hit industries. All major projects, anything sort of next-generation, have been essentially shelved. That was the ISV. And then another one, we cut at least 70% of the big projects moving forward. He mentioned ServiceNow actually calls them out, but the ServiceNow is a SaaS company they'll probably, you know, weather the storm here. But he did say we've put that on hold. The best comment, you know, "As-a-service has Saved our SaaS." (Erik laughs) That one's great. And then we're going to get into some of the networking commentary. Some really interesting things about how to support the work from home. You know, kind of shifting from a hardened top into remote workers. And then a lot of commentary on security. So, you know, that's sort of a high level scan and there's just so much information here Erik, but maybe you could sort of summarize on some of that commentary. >> Yeah, we should definitely dig into each of those sectors a little more, but to summarize what we're seeing here was the real winners and losers are clear. Not everyone was prepared to have a work from home strategy. Not everyone was prepared to send their workers out. Their VPN wasn't, they didn't have enough bandwidth. So there was a real quick uptick in spending, but longer term we're starting to see that these changes will become more permanent. So the real winners and losers right now, we're going to see on the loser's side traditional networking. The MPLS networking is in a lot of trouble according to all the data and the commentary that we're seeing. It's expensive, it's difficult to ramp to up bandwidth as quickly as you need and it doesn't support remote. So we're seeing that lose out and the winners there are in the SD-WAN space. It's going to be impossible to ignore that going forward and some of our CIO and CISO panelists said that change will be permanent. Also, we're seeing, at the same time, what they were calling a "SaaS and Cloud". Now, we know these trends obviously were already happening but they're being exacerbated. They're happening even more quickly and more strong. And I don't see that changing any time soon. That, of course, is at the expense of network, I'm sorry, data centers. Whether it be your own or hosted. Which has huge ramifications on on-prem hardware. Even the firewall providers. So what we're seeing here is obviously we know things are going to be impacted by this situation. We didn't necessarily expect all of our community members and IT decision-makers to talk about them being possibly permanent. So that on a high level was something that was extremely interesting. And the last one that I would bring up is that as we make this shift towards working from home, towards remote access, you also have to align yourself with the security that can support that. And one of the things that we're seeing in our data side on ETR, is a widening bifurcation between the next-generation security vendors and the more traditional security or the legacy security players. That bifurcation just keeps getting wider and wider and this situation could be the last straw. >> So I want to follow up on a couple of those things. You're talking about sort of the network shift you know, towards the SD-WAN. What people have described to me is that they got a, you know, a hardened top. It's a hierarchical network. It's very well understood and it's safe, right? And now all of a sudden you got all those remote workers and so you've got to completely soft of rethink your whole network architecture. The other thing I want to drill into is your Cloud commentary. There's a comment that I saw, Erik, that really stood out. One of the folks said, "I would like to see the data centers "be completely deleted, if you will, or closed down." I think we're going to see, you know, a lot more of this obviously. Not only from the standpoint of, and you heard this a lot, the kind of paid by the drink. But just generally getting rid of all that sort of so-called non-differentiated heavy-lifting as we often hear about. >> That is a extreme comment. I don't think everyone feels that way. But, yes, the comment was made and we've heard the comment from other people. As you and I both know, the larger the enterprise the harder that is to go completely SaaS. But yeah, when a situation like this has and see the inflexibility of their on-prem infrastructure, yes it becomes something that really has to be addressed and it can become a permanent change. I was also shocked about that comment. That gentleman also stated that his executives outside of the ITs area, the CEO, the CFO, had never ever, ever wanted to discuss Cloud. They did not want to discuss work from home. They did not want to discuss remote access. He said that conversation has changed immediately and to the credit of the actual IT companies out there, the technology companies, they're doing everything they can with this opportunity to make that happen. >> Yeah, and so you're right the whole work from home conversation. To your point earlier, Erik, big chunks of COVID, the post-COVID world are going to remain permanent. Guys bring up the SaaS slide if you will. The SaaS commentary, "As-a-Service Saved our SaaS." "The wittiest quip award" going to the ETR. You know, but you had, what's very interesting to hear folks, in fact I think somebody even called out, "Hey," you know, "we expected Oracle to," you know, "be auditing us but they're actually being supportive "as is IBM." Salesforce was an interesting common, Erik. One of the folks said they would share accounts on-prem, but when they all do the work from home they had to actually buy some more. You also got Cisco with big props. Microsoft was called out. A lot of organizations actually allowing them to defer payments. So the SaaS vendors actually got very high marks didn't they? >> They really did and even I wrote that summary and it was difficult to write that about Oracle because we all know that they're infamous for auditing their own customers in 2009 right after we came out of financial crisis. They have notoriously been a-- I don't know if they found religion and they decided to be nice to their customers, but every-single person mentioned them as one of the vendors that was actually helping. That was very shocking. And we all know that when bad situations happen people become opportunistic. And right now it's really seeming that the SaaS vendors understand that they need a longterm relationship with these customers and they're being altruistic instead. Which is really nice. >> Yeah I think that anybody with a Cloud realizes that hey, we have an opportunity here that the lifetime value of that customer, whereas maybe in 2009 when Oracle didn't have a Cloud, they had to get people in a headlock to try to persevere their, you know, income statement. Let's go to the networking drill down guys, that next slide because Fortinet, some of the things we've been reporting on is the sort of divergence in evaluations between Fortinet and Palo Alto before this whole thing hit, Fortinet has done a really good job with its Cloud offerings. Palo Alto struggles a little bit with trying to figure out the sales compensation, is maybe a little bit behind. Although both companies got strong props and I've talked to a number of customers, Palo Alto is going to be in the mix. Fortinet, from a Cloud standpoint, seems to be doing quite well? Obviously networking, Cisco is the big gorilla there. But we also got call outs from guys like Trend Micro which was interesting, from some of the folks. So, your thoughts on this Erik. >> Yeah, I'll start on the networking side because this is something that I've really, I've dug into quite amount, in not only this panel, but a lot of interviews and it really seems as if as networking refresh starts to come up, and it's coming up with a lot of large enterprises, when your network refresh comes up people are going to do an RFP for SD-WAN. They are sick and tired of paying MPLS network vendors and they really want to look at something else. That was even prior to this situation. Now what we're hearing is this is a permanent change. I particularly had one person say, I wanted to find this quote real quickly if I can, but basically they basically saying that, "From a permanency perspective, the freedom from MTLS "will reduce our networks spend by over half "while more than doubling or tripling our bandwidth." You can't ignore that. You're going to save me money and triple my bandwidth, and hey by the way, my refresh is due. It's something that's coming and it's going to happen. And yes, you mentioned the few right? There's Viptela, there's Velocloud, there's some big players like Cisco. The Palo Alto just acquired CloudGenix in the midst of all of this. They just went and got an SD-WAN player themselves. And they just keep acquiring a portfolio to shift from their on-prem to next-generation. It's going to take some time, because 70% plus of their revenues is still on-prem hardware, but I do believe that their portfolio that they're creating is the way the world is moving. And that's just one comment on the traditional networking versus the next-generation SD-WAN. >> And the customers have indicated, you know it's not easy just to get off of their MPLS network. I mean it takes time, it's like slowly pulling of the bandaid. But, like many things, COVID-19 is sort of accelerating that. We haven't talked about digital transformation. That came up as a maybe more strategic initiative. But one that very clearly has legs. >> You know, David, it's very simple. You just said it. People, when things are going well and they're comfortable, they don't change. And that's the same for an enterpriser company. Hey, everything's great, our revenue's fine. Why would we do this? We'll worry about that next year. Then something like this happens and you realize wow, we've been dragging our feet. That digital transformation that we've been talking about, and we've been a little bit slow to accept, we need to accept it, we need to move now. And yes, it was another one of the major themes and it sounds silly for researchers like you and I because we know this is a theme. We know Clouded option is there, we know digital transformation is there. But, there are still a lot of people that haven't moved as quickly as they should and this is going to be that final catalyst to get them there, without a doubt. Quickly on your point of Fortinet, I was actually very impressed with the commentary that came from that because Fortinet is sometimes one of those names that you think of that maybe plays in a smaller pool or isn't as big as some of the 800 pound gorillas out there. But in other other interviews besides this I've heard the phrase coined of "Forti-everything". So through RND and through acquisition, Fortinet has really expanded the portfolio and right now is their time to shine because when you have smaller satellite, you know, offices and branches that you need to connect, they're really, really good at it. And you don't always want to call a Palo Alto and pay that price when you have smaller branch offices. And I actually, I was glad you brought up Fortinet because it's not a name that we get to herald that often and it was deserving from this panel. >> Yeah and, you know, companies that can secure gateways, secure endpoints, obviously going to have momentum. Zscaler came up, you know I think that, and I'll tell ya, looking at, I've done a couple of breaking analysis on security and Fortinet has been strong in two dimensions. You know ETR is, as our audience is I think getting to know. We really look at two key metrics. One is net score, which is a measure of spending momentum, and the other is market share, which is a measure of pervasiveness. And companies like Fortinet, in security, show up on both of those dimensions so it's notable. >> Yes, it certainly is, it is. And I'm glad you brought up Zscaler too. Very recently by client request, we did a very in-depth research on Zscaler versus Palo Alto Prisma Access and they were very interested. This was before all this happened, you know. Does Palo Alto have a chance of catching up, taking share from Zscaler. And I've had the pleasure, myself, personally hosting Jay the CEO of Zscaler at an event in New York City. And I have nothing but incredible respect for the company. But what we found out through this research is Zscaler, at the moment, their technology is still ahead, according to their answers. There's no doubt. However, there doesn't seem to be any real secret sauce that will stop Palo Alto from catching up. So we do believe the parody of feature set will shrink over time. And then it will come down to Palo Alto obviously has a wider and user base. Now, what's happening today might change that. Because if I had to make a decision right now, for my company on secure web gateway, I'm still probably going to go to Zscaler. It's the name. If I had to choose that in a year from now, Palo Alto might have had a better chance. So in this panel, as you brought up, Zscaler was mentioned numerous times as just the wave of the future. Along with CASB brokers right? Whether you're talking about a Netskoper or Forcepointer. All those people that also play in CASB space to secure your access. Zero trust is no longer a marketing-hype term. It is real and it is becoming more real by the week. >> And so, I want to kind of end on one of the other comments that really struck me because we're constantly talking about okay, do you go with a portfolio of a suite of services or do you go with best of breed? What about startups? Are startups more risky in a crisis like this? And one of your panelists, I just love this comment, he said, "One of things that I've always done," he said, "You always hear about the guy, "oh we're going to go to the gardener, we're going to "check out the magic water, we'll pick out three guys "in the upper right hand corner and test them out." He says, "One of the things I always like to do, "I'll pick two from the upper right "and I'll take one from the lower left." One of the emerging, text, "And I'll give em a shot." It won't win every time, but then he called out FireEye as one of the organizations that he found early that gave them competitive advantage. >> Right. >> Love that comment. >> It's a great comment. And honestly if you're in charge of procurement you'd be stupid not to do that. Not only just to see what the technology is, but now I can play you off the big guys because I have negotiating leverage and I can say oh, well I could always just take their contract. So it's silly not to do it from a business perspective. But from technology perspective, what we kept hearing from these people with the smaller vendors. My partner Peter Steube, my colleague and I, we did the host together, we asked this question really believing that the financial insecurity of the moment and the times would make smaller vendors not viable. We heard the exact opposite. What our panelists said was, "No, I'd be happy "to work with a smaller vendor right now "because they're going to give me pricing flexibility, "they're going to work with me right now. "I don't need to pay them upfront "because we're seeing a permanent shift from CapEx to OpEX, "and the smaller vendors are willing to work with me and I can pay them later." So we were actually surprised to hear that and glad to hear it because, to connect to your other point, the other person who was talking about security and the platform approach versus best of breed, he said "Listen, platform approaches you're already "with the vendor, you can bundle a little bit. "But the problem is, if you're just going to acquire "a new technology every time there's a new threat, "the bad guys are just going to switch the threat. "And you can't acquire indefinitely. "So therefore, best of breed with security "will always beat platform." And that's kind of a message to Palo Alto and Cisco, in my opinion, because they seem to be the ones fighting that out. Even Microsoft now, trying to say they're a platform approach in security. >> Well and this says to me the security business, as we predicted, is going to stay fragmented because you're still going to get that best of breed. You know, just like Cloud is going to be fragmented and it's, you know, multiple vendors. Ever since I've been in this business people are trying to consolidate the number of vendors, but technology moves so quickly, it gives competitive advantage. Erik, awesome! Thank you so much for joining us. I'm looking forward to next Tuesday with the next vendor and love to have you back and talk about it anytime. You're a great guest, thanks so much. >> Certainly, I'll do my best to get a better AV connection the next time guys, I apologize for that. But it was great talking to you tonight. >> Hey we're all learning, you know so, thank you everybody for watching, this is Dave Vellante for theCUBE and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Massachusetts, it's theCUBE! Covering WTG Transform 2019. Brought to you by Winslow Technology Group. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman, and we're here at WTG Transform 2019, across the Mass Pike from Fenway Park where we're hoping the rain's going to stop in time for the game tonight where we have 189 users here with Winslow Technology, digging in a lot of technology, networking with their peers, and I'm thrilled to have on another one of the ED users on the program. Plamen Dimitrov is director of Information Technology at Kiawah Island Golf Resorts coming to us from South Carolina. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> All right, as I was actually telling you, I'm familiar with Kiawah, my father is retired down to John's Island right off of Charlestown, South Carolina. You have a beautiful golf course there, there've been professional events there, we actually have one of our Cubeos, does some PGA coverage, John Walls, so he and I have talked about Kiawah a few times, but for those of our audience that aren't as familiar, haven't been able to enjoy it, tell us a little bit about Kiawah. >> Kiawah is a beautiful island, over about 10 miles of oceanfront, side, where the Kiawah Golf Resort is spread out. We have different accommodations with a lot of different activities for all ages, starting with the Sanctuary Hotel, which is a Five Star by Forbes and a Five Diamond by AAA. Or you can choose any of our villas from one to eight bedroom villas. We have five beautiful golf courses, which one of them is ocean course, previously hosted Ryder Cup in 1991, and PGA in 2012, and we are also proud to be a host of the PGA 2021, very exciting. Apart of that, we are announced to be Tennis Resort #1 in the world by tennisresortonline.com. We have over 22 tennis course, different variations from car course to clay. On top of that, we have a lot of pools, swimming pools, water parks, a lot of recreation, kayaking. It can be a beautiful journey for any visitors. >> Yeah, so, Plamen I know some of the IT people listening to this are going to be like, "Boy, he's got a tough job there!" Sounds gorgeous, right on the ocean, so many things there, bring us a little bit inside the IT, your world, what that entails, and, boy, there's got to be some different challenges and opportunities that you face, versus the kind of traditional business IT. >> As every island, we have all of our friends, like salty water and all things like that. And besides that, I've mentioned that the company's spread out over 10 miles, we have a total of 23 locations, and all they share the same systems and applications. Our current challenges, from an IT standpoint, are things that not all of the vendors that can keep up with the current technology and the all new and moderns, so we have some, what we call, old school applications, they can't keep up, and then you have the new applications that can be hosted on the Cloud, for instance. In the same time, those applications need to somewhat work with each other and have some interfaces, so this is where we face the, these days a challenge, a little bit, and where our partnership with Winslow, were able to help us determine which is the best route for us. And we determined that having a data center on island, and they have another one off the island, is the best for us to go. They helped us go through the planning of what's the right set up to be used, and I think we're in the right direction. >> Okay, great, so you have two data centers and you're also using Cloud services, if I heard right? >> Correct. >> Okay. There's been a big discussion here, is like, all right, what is the Cloud's strategy and it is an ever changing world and there is no one right answer, so, when you look at yourselves, what is your Cloud strategy today and what makes you help determine where you'll be moving in the future? >> In one of the sessions, they mentioned it's all about checks and balance, and it's to be able to measure how to apply your cash in a way that it makes sense, and one day, maybe, for some applications makes sense to be on premise, another day makes sense to bring it on the Cloud. And I can give you an example, recently what we did was, we were looking into switching to Office 365, pretty much everybody knows about it, and there's a good study that, after you go over a certain threshold, it's much easier to, and much more cost effective, to have something on premise versus going to a Cloud version. Now, again, it depends on the size of the company, it depends on the... Your future projects and goals, for some people it may be different than us. But I think that the future more and more, things will be what's called colocating the Cloud, which is mainly by other providers, and we're going to have two called a key that you can get to those applications from anywhere. >> Plam, bring us inside a little bit that the data centers, you said you have two of them, what's your infrastructure stack look like today? >> We've been looking at the various solutions, hyper-converged, and hybrids, and with the help of Winslow, we determined that sticking to the 3-2-1 traditional solution is the way we go. We use their Compellent products, all flash erase, very flexible and very reliable, very nice speed it provides, performance-wise they're a great product. Then, after that story solution, you have two data switches and then a number of servers. We use, on top of that, the VMware as our hypervisor, along with their VDI environment called Horizon for some remote clients that they don't need much, but that's basically our setup. >> Great, and how long have you been using the Compellent solutions? >> The Compellent solutions, we've been using them for a year and a half, since I joined the company, but my relationship with Winslow goes far back, since 2013 where I used to work for another company here in Nantucket. And the very first person I worked with was John Cliffords from Winslow. Very great guy, and he introduced us to the Dell world. This is when we bought the first EqualLogic and afterwards, I went to Belmont, where we also bought (mumbles), and we just keep going along. >> All right, great, Plamen, last question I have for you, what brings you to an event like this, what were you hoping to get out of it, and how's it been going for you so far? >> Well, what brings me to an event like this, most of the time is on one side to see what Dell has to offer, and some people attend, they'll conference, but I think a place like this, where you have smaller scale conference, it's much more beneficial for me. A, from a learning experience and B, from creating connections, making connections with other users, which this is the best because sales rep can say, "Yeah, this is what you need." But then, from a user perspective, it's priceless to absorb experience. >> All right, well, Plamen Dimitrov, I really appreciate you sharing your journey, and everything that Kiawah Golf Resorts is doing, thank you so much. >> Thank you very much. >> All right, we'll be back with more coverage here from WTG Transform 2019, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks for watching theCUBE. (funky electro music)

>> From the ARIA Resort in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Marketplace. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey, welcome back here everybody Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are at AWS re:Invent 2018 wrapping up day one. We're going to do four days of coverage. We have four sets, three locations. But we're kicking things off here at the AWS Marketplace and Service Catalog event here at the ARIA. We're excited to be joined by our next guest, first time on theCUBE, but he's been working on the security stuff for a long time. He's Brandon Traffanstedt, he's the Global Director of System Engineering for CyberArk. Brandon, great to see you. >> Thank you very much. Glad to be here. >> Absolutely. So we started the conversation first off let's just give us the quick overview of CyberArk for people who are unfamiliar with the company. >> Definitely. So CyberArk does privilege access security, and that is the vaulting rotation in management of incredibly powerful accounts. Both traditional ones, the domain admin, to ones that exist in a more femoral, or cloud state. Access key, secret key pairs, route access into your console. So our goal is to take those out of the minds of users, out of those spreadsheets, out of hard coded code stacks. Place them in a secure location, rotate them, and then provide secure access to people as well as non people too. >> So you really segregate the privilege access as a very different category than just any regular user of kind of admin type of person. >> Absolutely. Though the focus is key. When we look the general spectrum of accounts in an organization, yes you've got the lower ones that are identity driven. Attackers might use those to get in, but really the creamy, nuggety center are those high value credentials. It's what brings down organizations. It's what we see involved in breaches every single day. So the focus there on those powerful ones is what gets us the most security posture increase with the least amount of effort. >> You know, it's interesting. 'Cause I always think of security as kind of like insurance. You can't absolutely be 100% positively. You can't spend every nickel you have on security, but you want to have a good ROI. So what you're saying, really, is this is a really good ROI investment from your security investment because these are really the crown jewels that you need to protect first. >> Absolutely. And like insurance, we often want to plan for the absolute worst to occur. There have been breaches in the past where yes, there were dollars that were spent on things like remediation, but if you have a huge customer base, even the postage alone to notify folks that you've had a compelling event tends to up into the seven figures. >> I never even thought of that. It's not a trivial expense. >> Absolutely. >> So, you said you've been doing this for 20 years, so a lot of change. There was no AWS re:Invent 20 years ago. There was not cloud computing as we know it today. So, you know we'll talk about kind of the current state but I'd love to get more kind of your historical perspective, you know being a security export, how your challenges have changed as this kind of continual escalation of war, accounting of strike counters strike. I'm thinking of MAD Magazine's Spy vs Spy, right, has continued to escalate over these 20 years. >> Definitely. So, years and years ago organizations were very monolithic from both the application side as well as their more kind of human focused infrastructure. Right, we had one or two domain controllers. Typically physical systems. But what happened is, the architecture broke down. So what, 10 years ago virtualization was the big thing, right. Same types of accounts, but more systems. More automation flows. So as we replaced humans with non humans, what happened was, more human users got over privileged, right? They were empowered to get their jobs done. But we had more and more robots that began doing their work. So one of the things that we saw, was the breaking down of the applications stacks to the point that we are now, you can spin up thousands of instances in a matter of clicks over a matter of seconds. Move that into a more micro services model, and you now have tens of thousands of nodes that can exist in the blink of an eye. All having the same type of access restrictions but just being far more distributed. >> Right. And so many more tax services with IOT, and all these things all over the place. And so, much more complex environment. >> Definitely. One of the things about all this beautiful automation and centralization that's occurring, is that now attackers don't have to go through that same type of flow they used to, right. Compromise an in user, escalate privilege on a laptop for instance, move laterally and continue to perform that dance. Now, all it takes is one compromise into your cloud management console for instance. And a lot of times that's game over. Our attacker is also changing a little bit. So I'm proud to say, but I'm a millennial and the thing about millennials is we tend to be very, some would say lazy, but I would say efficient in how we perform tasks. So for me, performing that lateral movement verses a one stop shop for a public effacing entity, I'm going to choose the one stop shop. >> Very true. So one of the hot topics in today's world is RPA, robotic process automation. We are at Automation Anywhere, we are at the UiPath Show this year, it's getting a lot of buzz. Both those companies have raised a ton of money. Hot, hot, hot space. It adds a whole new level of complexity and opportunity on the security side. So how should people be thinking about RPA and security? >> So when it comes to RPA, one of the things that is simply parr for the course, is that in order for robots to do their jobs, to build this automation that folks are looking for, they've got to authenticate this stuff. A lot of times we'll see that authentication happen as kind of an isolated secret that's stored, say inside of Automation Anywhere for instance. The goal there is, well we can rotate it, maybe, but now we have to update it here and there and a number of other spots. So one thing that we see as being a very prevalent theme is well let's find a centralized and secure source to manage them, and allow the robotic process automation to authenticate securely to that entity, pull the secrets as they need. Now, we can rotate that as many as what, ten, twelve times a day if we wanted to without our RPA missing a beat. At CyberArk we have what's called a C cubed alliance where we brought together a number of RPA vendors. All the ones that you mentioned. As well as other automation platforms, security vendors too. To where you don't have to do the work of integrating. It's already there and it's been built. And we're taking a huge direction from our customer base there to tell us what's hot, what's new for them. To let us proper those conversations. >> Because the robots are actually treated inside the system I believe, as like a person right? It's kind of like your own personal assistant. So in terms of the identity and the access, it's managed very much as if it was just a new hire. >> For sure. And if you look at it for instance using something like another automation platform like Jenkins. Jenkins is personified by a butler. Jenkins' task is to go out and perform all these tasks for you. But I'll submit to you if I were to offer you, hey Brandon, you can come to my house, vacuum my floor every Friday, that sounds like a pretty good deal. Especially if it's an open source. If I do it for you for free. But you encounter risk by giving me the keys to your house. The same is true for those automation platforms. A lot of times we divorce that robot from a human so we don't do the same level of due diligence to give the robot an identity to instantiate lease privilege. It's one of the things we've seen be a very huge theme in successful customer deployments. As well as automating their security too. >> Well at least they're not going to give away the security when someone calls up and says can you please give me the URL for the company picnic. I can't get in, you got to help me out. Hopefully they didn't train the robots to answer that question and let that social engineering enter. Is there social engineering for RPA? >> There is. When you look at RPA or even code that exists in public repositories, one of the quickest attacks you can do is to GitHub, search for your secret of choice. Maybe it's Postgres, maybe it's a vendor name underscore secret. If you sort that code by recent commits, you'll find people's hardcoded secrets that exist inside of public repositories. It's not because our developers are malicious. It's because it wasn't top of mind for them. They didn't have a more compelling solution. So that's one of the quickest attacks and I think that's social engineering. It could be as easy as compromising as say, one of your AWS administrators who happens to have a privileged key in a text file on his desktop. Same is also true there. >> Right Brandon, so we're here at the AWS Marketplace experience. Share with us a little bit about how you work with AWS Marketplace and what's that meant for your company. You've been around for 20 years. So you didn't need them to get started, but how are they helping you change your business? >> So one of the things that has been very top of mind for us over the past couple of years is supporting the community. In many cases folks will come to us with a project. Whether it be post breach mediation, audit compliance; whatever it may be, they have some indicator of moving forward. A lot of times when developers are building out processes, they may not be the driver from the business so the goal was we need to be able to support the community to provide open source secrets managements and do so very quickly. So there doesn't need to be a project or a red tape. AWS Marketplace has helped us provide our open source solution in a beautifully deployed package to as many folks as possible, so that at least they have some secure place to store those secrets without altering the way they do things. If they have to go outside of the Marketplace flows that they're used to, it's extra work. And we never want security to be a constraint to building good, quality automation development practices. >> Right. And how's Amazon been as a partner? There's a lot out there, be careful, they're going to see what you do and copy it and knock you out of business. How have they been working with as a partner? >> They've been fantastic. Highly supportive from both the programmatic secrets management perspective but also in providing best practices for how to deploy our core stack into AWS. How to handle things like auto scaling. As well as providing some APIs to extend our secrets management capability based on customer ASPs on both sides. >> Alright Brandon, well thank you for taking a few minutes. I'm sure we're both going to be dog tired in a couple of days. >> We can hope so, yeah. >> So we started while we were fresh. So I appreciate you taking a few minutes and stopping by. >> Always a pleasure. Thank you again for the invite. >> All right, he's Brandon, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're at AWS Marketplace and Service Catalog Experience here at the ARIA. Thanks for watching. See ya next time. (upbeat music)

>> From the Aria Resort in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Marketplace. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE, we're at AWS re:Invent in Las Vegas, I don't know, 50,000, 60,000. I can't wait 'til the number comes in, there's a lot of people at this event. Been coming for years, we actually have nine days of coverage here spread out over three sets in four different locations, but we're kickin' it off tonight, at the AWS Marketplace and Service Catalog event here at the Aria. Come on by there's no lines over here. I'm sure there's giant lines over at the Sands. We're excited to see an old friend and make a new friend, and talk about the service catalogs from some of the experts and Dave Wright, Chief Innovation Officer from ServiceNow, has been on many, many times. >> I have. >> Dave great to see you. >> No, good to be here. >> And our new friend MaSonya Scott, she's Senior Business Development Manager, at AWS Service Catalog. >> Hi, how are you? >> Welcome. >> Thank you. >> So there's a lot of talk about service catalog. We know about the ServiceNow Service Catalog. We got the AWS Service Catalog. But now you guys have brought these two things together. >> Yes. >> Why did you bring it together? How did it happen? How did we get here today? >> So, AWS, 95% of our features are based on what customer feedback. And so we were listening to our customers tell us that, hey it's your innovation in AWS Service Catalog, where you provide the governance, the guardrails, the launch constraints is great but we already have a service catalog with the ideas and tools such as ServiceNow and how can federate that ingest the details and information into ServiceNow so that we can do it in one place? So our developers don't have to swivel chair between two different systems. >> Right. >> So we listened to that feedback. Got requirements, started a proof of concept, and then we built on it and we're now on our third iteration. >> And Dave, what were you hearing your side of the chair? >> So we were getting, customers were coming to us saying they wanted a similar experience they were getting using regular service catalog. So they wanted a unified experience. They wanted the ability to have governance and control over what was happening. But most importantly they wanted us to integrate because they'd say, hey, you two are both strategic platforms for us. We don't want to go to the last mile after to aid the integration so you guys need to work together and sort it out. So, it was very much customer driven. It was customers that were saying, We want you guys to work together more closely. >> I love it. I just love the customer-centric nature because we hear it over and over again. >> Yes. >> And this is kind of a great example of a real instance. And you didn't really care, per se, whose was kind of on top. What are the logging into initially. >> Right. >> You just wanted to get the integration done. >> Yes. >> And it sounds like today, right now it's a ServiceNow log in and then it integrates with the AWS Service catalog-- >> Yes. >> Underneath. >> Right. So for the AWS Service Catalog we state the source of truth for all the resources, the products and the portfolios. And then we sync to ServiceNow Service Catalog through their scheduled job process and we expose products that the ServiceNow administrator wants their end-users to see. So they can order an iPhone and now they can order a web server. >> And where's the identity? Is that in the ServiceNow platform now in terms the rights and access that an individual person has inside of your catalog. >> So we have a scoped app in ServiceNow where you correlate the identities in AWS to a role in ServiceNow. >> Okay. >> So that's that. And then the best thing about the app is that the ServiceNow end users doesn't have direct access to the AWS console. >> Right. They just order what is a compliant, secure product product that they need to have. And then even in the AWS console, the connection only gives the end user role that's assumed access to the AWS Service Catalog. So not even direct resources to EC2 or S3. And so what that enables is that segregation of duty. >> Right. >> And so we put the permissions on the launch constraints and then they deplore products and then you can give the evidence in an audit to what you've provisioned. >> Okay. And then where is this in the life cycle? You said, I think we're kind of past POCs getting into production? >> Yeah our customers are starting to move to production, doing POCs, giving us feedback and as they give us more feedback, we're creating more releases. We've launched our third iteration of features last Monday, the 19th and what we did was we integrated not only just AWS Service Catalog but the ability through AWS Systems Manager to do SSM actions so if you provision a web server, now you can start, stop, reboot it. And so, then once you do that we create a change in ServiceNow's IT change management. So we're moving more from provisioning as well as into operational actions as well. >> So that's what was great for us was if you've got that point of initiation where you know something's happening, we can then update the CMDB in real time, we can start looking at software asset management so we can see what's deployed. And then we've also found this great use cases where we can look at how we actually map the service to then be able to use Amazon's cloud migration products to be able to speed up migrations as well. >> Yes. Yes, and so customers are not only just provisioning storage or EC2's but anything from a cloud formation template workspace, an Amazon workplace. >> Right. >> We can also send those requests through ServiceNow we got a lot of feedback on that. >> Right. >> We have sessions and builder projects today at re:Invent that are showing how that works. >> So it begs the question obviously down the road, you know will kind of the priority switch from the customer perspective? You know, will ServiceNow be integrated in through the marketplace of the service catalog and people access it through that way? >> I think there's no reason why it couldn't be at some point. The only challenge we have at the moment is obviously people using the service catalog to provision all kinds of things as well as AWS components >> Right, right. >> But if you're a core AWS shopper and that's what you're using everything for there's no reason why you couldn't flip that around. >> Right, I was just thinking you know what screen are you on all day, right? You know everybody wants your attention. They want that screen and if that's your work screen, that's your work screen so know you're opening this up, really adds a whole lot of power to the ServiceNow work screen that wasn't there before. >> We've always focused on can it change what the employee experience is like to just try and give them, ironically an Amazon-like experience. >> Yeah. (laughs) >> Before we said it's easy for me to order stuff in the real world for me to just get something from Amazon why couldn't I have exactly that same experience when I wanted to order any piece of IT equipment whether it be physical, virtual, peripherals, whatever. So that's why we're trying to change the experience but it's funny that it's come through that full circle of them going, oh, it would be good if it was like that, and then we end up working with these guys anyway. >> So did you get a cake? (laughing) >> Did I get a cake? I've seen many cakes in my career. But no, I think you need to send me a cake. >> We need to do it, get a go live cake. >> I know, I know >> Yeah you got to get a Go Live cake once you get that first one up and official and ready to roll. >> We ought to do that, take a picture. >> See your product manager. >> It's a huge tradition. It's one of the coolest things of the ServiceNow culture I have to say. >> Yes, yes, yes. >> All right. So any final words on this partnership beyond just continuing to make the improvements getting closer to production and build more functionality? Anything you want to highlight as you turn the calendar on 2018 and 2019's just around the corner? >> So we're looking to get feedback on not just provisioning but going through other management tool services and trying to see what the customers are looking for. So that's one of those key features is just building bigger not just AWS Service Catalog but a connector between the two platforms so that we can continue to create that synergy. >> Excellent. All right, well thanks for taking a few minutes of your day and we'll see you I think in May. (laughing) Is usually when we see you. And we see AWS, I think we had six shows this year. You guys just keep rolling. >> Yes. >> So thanks for taking a few minutes and have a terrific show. >> No great to be here. >> Thank you. >> All right, she's MaSonya, he's Dave and I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. It's the AWS Marketplace Service Catalog Enterprise at the Aria, come on by. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(electronic music) >> From the Aria Resort in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Marketplace. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey, welcome back everybody Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at AWS re:Invent 2018. I can't wait to get the people count. It's crazy we're kicking off nine days of coverage over the next three days. We've got three sets at four, four sets in three locations. But today we're at the AWS MarketPlace and Service Catalog Experience Hub at the Aria. Come on by here's no wait for drinks over here. We're excited to jump in to really, you know, not necessarily the tech but a lot of the processes behind the tech. We've got first time CUBE guest Tolga Tarhan, he's the CTO of Onica. Welcome. >> Thank you. And with him, Jeremy Bendat, he's the Director of Business Development and Partnerships. Welcome. >> Thank you sir. >> So let's jump into it, what does Onica do before we kind of get into the details? >> Yeah go ahead. >> So Onica is what's called an Amazon Premier Consultancy Partner. So all we do is help customers embrace, become educated, and become empowered on top of AWS. So we work primarily with enterprise customers across North America. We have offices both in the United States and in Canada and we're really excited to be here today. >> And how big is the company? How long have you been around? We're about 300 people. We've been doing AWS for a proximately six years but collectively across our team, we've probably close to a 1000 years of experience. >> Probably. >> So there's so much you know, kind of thud out there about you know, rent versus buy and you know. Do Amazon use to be security? But I think we've heard, you know now security is actually more of a tailwind than a headwind for Amazon. >> Right. >> So you know, let's break it down. First off, clearly Amazon is doing well. You know there's a lot of companies built their business on this platform, you guys have as well. What are some of the things, when you first engage with a customer, just kind of AWS 101. How they need to think about this differently than what they've been buying and racking or stacking in their data center? >> So it's the model's different and it's important to not think of AWS as a data center. It's important to embrace the cloud for the cloud. And so there's a pretty, pretty common saying about pets versus cattle. And I want to break that down just a little bit. So you've got pets that you love and you care for them and you've got cattle that are for a purpose. You raise them and then you use them for milk or food. And in the cloud we want that latter model, we want to be able to spin up an instance, do something and have it go away when we're done. And then be responsive to our demand. You know this isn't, I'm not the first one saying this idea on camera but I think the interesting thing to consider is the evolution. So we went from physical hardware at our data centers to virtual machines at our data centers. And at that leap we got higher capacity, we could pack more VMs onto one physical server than we could in the physical world. And we also got some benefits about reliability and ease of configuration. Then we went to the cloud of those VMs and we got cost benefits, we got performance benefits, we got scale benefits. And now in the last couple of years we've gone from that to containers in the cloud and now we're getting even higher density, even more flexible deployments, even quicker scale up times. And then the last piece of this that's the newest is now we're going to serverless, were we're not even managing the operating system or any of the details behind it. It's just all event driven. So that evolution, you don't have to go to the end, right, it's a journey. But it's important to sort of buy in to that journey on your way to the cloud and not just think of it as a place to park. >> Right. >> Some VMs. >> So I would imagine for a lot of people it's really hard to change their behavior. Not to forward buy additional capacity and to actually turn things off. When their not being used. I mean that's not what they've been doing throughout their careers in kind of traditional IT. >> And that's what we want to talk about those types of things on day one. That security conversation, that optimization conversation, just overall automation of the environment. That conversation is happening the very first time we sit down with a customer typically. Because it's something that we want them to embrace and start off with good habits when it comes to not only how their going to use the cloud but how they should not use the cloud. >> Right, cause I think a lot of them, they just leave it one right they. I went to a great session it was a little application party because I like when people turn us off on the weekends and I'm not making revenue because they don't need us right. >> Right. So the high capacity kind of end of the month you know kind of run job, piece of software and it's so counter intuitive but it's really establishing a different type of relationship then you had before. >> That's right, it's that sort of, it's that friendly consumption model alright. Use what you need, pay for what you use, no long term log in. And that applies I think, not just to AWS but to the ecosystem they've built. So now you're seeing SAS vendors, you're seeing partner ecosystems folks adopt that same model. >> Right clearly 60000 plus, whatever a year it's a whole lot of Amazon people but a whole lot of ecosystems people. >> Right. >> So when you approach a customer and they're starting this journey. First of, how many of your customers are just kind of getting started and they're smart enough to know I need to go to a Pro versus how many who got started and unfortunately let the lights on and the Amazon bill is coming up. Wait, wait, wait, you know, this is not what I expected. I'm not been able to manage it. What's kind of the shift of the customers and then we'll get into the each one. >> We see a real healthy mix across the board. >> Yeah. >> We've had the opportunity to work with start ups that have been purchased for over a billion dollars. We've also had the opportunity to work with traditional enterprise shops were it's their very first cloud project and they want to make sure they're setting things up the right way. And what we find is that we'll actually do something that's incredibly advanced for them. Doing a serverless project, for example and that then becomes the referenceable architecture for all future innovative projects that they end up doing. So because of that spread, we see this incredibly wide spread of different projects, different types of customer challenges. And we're able to collectively take that experience and then help individual customers embrace their specific challenges and point them in the right direction and help accelerate that. >> Yeah on that note, it's cloud adoption isn't like a one, a one track journey. Not every company should adopt it the same way. I think the unique value the experience partners bring to the ecosystem, is helping customers find the right path for them. >> Right. >> Not shove them into the one path that we know. >> And how many of them, how many of them grasp this, do most of them come in really on the cost savings side? You know they see an opportunity to be more efficient in their spend on infrastructure? Or how many of them are coming in, saying I see really speed, speed, speed, speed, speed, speed and this is an innovation engine, oh by the way hopefully I'll save a few bucks versus you know running a 50% utilization on my data center. What kind of. >> I think it's all of the above. >> All the above? >> It's all the above. Everyone wants speed and they also want to do it cheaply. And that's why they come to us. And that's why the ecosystem for partners is actually so big. It's because they know there's a better way of doing things and through that collective experience that we bring or that companies on the Marketplace bring, they know they're going to jump start that initiative and end up doing it the right way. Yeah, another big thing I think, probably you guys are making good hay on this opportunity, but you know Andy is going to stand up on Thursday and he's going to speak for a couple of hours. And he's going to have some mega slides, right. He has those mega slides. He's going to have a mega slide on startups that are running on AWS. He's going to have a mega slide on about enterprises that are running on AWS and then he's going to have a mega, mega slide, lord knows how many new services are going to be introduced, with just this sea of services. And I always look for S3. >> (laughs) >> Like where is the little S3 logo on the site. From a consumption point of view. From a customer point of view, yes it's great to have options and yes there's probably a service that can satisfy my need but how am I supposed to know where to go? I mean imagine that's got to be a huge part of your guys value add to help people navigate what is really a giant, you know, selection process opportunity. >> I think most customers understand the basics now, like most customers understand how to do compute on AWS, at least at a starting point. But you're right there's a 100 other services that look and feel they can help you. And our job as partners is to help you identify the right ones for your requirements. The flexibility that AWS provides is part of the value but it also means you have to be responsible and educated about how to use it. Right, what's the biggest, just foil 101, like you know they're all going to, they're all going to step into it, they all do it when people are just kind of getting started on this journey? >> Don't leave your instances on and walk away. (laughs) The amounts of times we've seen that, just because you do pay for what you use. >> Right. >> And so we want to make sure that we're starting off with good habits. And we're building that automation to turn things off if they're not being used. Or that we have those guardrails built in for a customer that hey, is enabling access for a team of people that haven't had access to their own infrastructure previously. >> Right. >> Yeah, it's that whole Dev Ops mentality so go into your cloud journey with a Dev Ops mindset, I know that word has become complicated. But what I mean by that is think about how you're going to automate deployment, think about how you're going to deliver code from where ever it comes to production in a automated way early in the process. Because if you spin up a giant environment, kind of manually and haphazardly, that's when this kind of cost runaway stuff. >> Right. >> Starts to show it's ugly head. >> So we're here in the Marketplace and Service Catalog area here at the Aria so I'm just curious to get your take on working with Amazon as a partner. You guys are different than maybe some of the solution providers or some of the component software people I've been talking to earlier in the day. But as a services company how are they to work with? How do you guys play with the Marketplace and I imagine the Services Catalog is probably big way that you deliver your services to your clients is to teach them how to manage that thing. >> Absolutely, so we recently become one of the launch partners that's on the consulting side that's able to, not only recommend, but also resell products from the AWS Marketplace. And so what that means is we actually get early access or sometimes even private pricing access to Marketplace items and then can offer those to our customers to help accelerate their initiative. One of the cool things that we've done, is we've actually set up direct partnerships with some of the SAS providers that offer their services on Marketplace to help to strategically drop in or offer that within a Service Catalog to our end customers. So they win because of price, they also win because help to vet some of those products. And we're helping to, a lot of the times, accelerate that initiative. >> Yeah there's also the actual SAS providers themselves, so those are actually customers we work with a lot as well. They need to integrate their SAS products with the Marketplace API's but when they do that they get access to purchasing base of AWS. All of a sudden Amazon customers can buy from you with no contracts, no legal paperwork needed. >> Right, right. >> It's already covered by their Amazon agreement. >> So enabling that and taking your SAS product, offering it for sale on Marketplace is another big area that we help customers. >> And that's kind of the ugly backing stuff that you got to, they got to work on right? >> Right. >> All that kind of administration which is really what that Service Catalog is all about actually not just talking about it but deploying it at scale. >> Yeah. >> That's right. >> It fast tracks that procurement cycle they would otherwise have to go through all those legal docs. So if we can, at the click of a button, enable one of our customers to adopt a product or even you know, POC it in a very short period of time, and turn it off, again pay-as-you-go model, the Marketplace open up a ton of doors for these customers. >> Just pay-as-you-go, just pay for what you use, don't leave the lights on. Could be very expensive. (all laughs) >> Well Jeremy, Tolga thanks for a taking a few minutes of your day and have a great show. I'm sure, leave extra time to get to wherever your next appointment is. >> Thank you. >> We can't thank you enough for being here and we're so excited for re:Invent 2018. >> Yeah, thanks a lot. >> Thanks. >> Alright he's Tolga, he's Jeremy, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE, we are at the AWS Marketplace and Services Catalog Experience here at the Aria. Thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>> From the ARIA Resort in Las Vegas, it's theCube. Covering AWS Marketplace. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCube. We are at AWS Reinvent 2018. We got to get a number, I don't know how many people are here, but Vegas is packed. I think it's in six different venues tonight. We're at the ARIA at the hub with the AWS Marketplace & Service Catalog Experience, kicking everything off. We're excited to be joined by cube alumni. Last we saw him, I think it was in San Francisco Summit 2017. Carl Krupitzer, the CEO of ThingLogix. Carl, great to see you. >> Thank you it's great to be here. >> So I think you were saying before we turned the cameras on, you came early days. This whole piece here was not even as big a the room we're in. >> Right well we were part of the service launch for IoT, and that was just a few years ago, and it's exponentially bigger. Yeah. Just the expo, this is not even the expo floor right? And this is bigger than what we had originally. So excited to see it grow. >> So IoT keeps growing, growing, growing. That's all we hear about. In Industrial IoT, we did the Industrial IoT launch with GE back in better days. For them, huge opportunity. Really seeing a lot of momentum. What are some of the observations you're seeing actually out in marketplace? >> You know it's interesting. When we first started with the IoT service offering for AWS, there was a lot of proof of concepts going on, a lot of people kind of hacking their way through understanding what IoT is and how it could impact their business. And I think we've gotten to the point now where we're seeing more production roll-outs with very considerate business drivers behind it. >> Right. I think it's funny you're talking about doing some research for this, and you guys are really specific. I love it. It's not Greenfield projects you know? Have specific design objectives, have specific KPIs, have specific kind of ideas about what the functionality you want before you just kind of jump into IoT space with two feet. >> Right. Yeah we strongly discourage companies from just jumping in with both feet just because right? It's an expensive undertaking IoT, and it has the potential to really change your business for the better if you do it well. >> So where are you seeing the most uptake? Or maybe that surprises you the most in these early days? Kind of industry wise? >> We see a lot of creative use cases starting to come up. Kind of that secondary use of data, and one of the things that we've-- we kind of describe our customers having a life cycle of IoT right? They come in to solve a specific problem with us, which is usually a scalability, or a go to market issue. And then very quickly, they kind of get to the art of the possible. What can we do next? And we see a lot of companies really getting creative with the way they do things. From charging with-- using our FID tags in sub-Saharan Africa for water to solar power and things like that. It's interesting to see companies that didn't exist a few years ago, and couldn't have existed a few years ago, really kind of getting a lot of traction now. >> Right. It's funny we did an interview with Zebra Sports a few years ago actually now. And they're the one that's old RFID technology that put the pads in the shoulder pads for all the NFL players. They're on the refs, they're in the balls. It is such a cool way to apply on old technology to a new application and then really open up this completely different kind of consumer experience in watching sports. When you've got all this additional data about how fast are they running and what's their acceleration. And I think they had one example where they showed a guy in an interception. They had the little line tracker. Before he'd gotten all the way back in, it was a pick six. It's unbelievable now with this data. >> Our Middle Eastern group is actually doing a pilot right now for camel racing. So we're doing telemetry attached to the camels that are running around the tracks. We're getting speed and heart rate and those sorts of things. So it's everywhere right? >> I love it. Camel racing. So we're here at the AWS Marketplace Experience. So tell us a little bit about how's it working with AWS. How's the the marketplace fit within your entire kind of go to market strategy? >> Well so for us, the marketplace is really key to our go to market strategy right? I mean we're a small company and we-- our sales team is really kind of focused on helping customers solve problems and the marketplace really offers us the ability to not have to deal with a lot of the infrastructure things of servicing a customer right? They can go there, they can self sign up, they can implement the platform, our technology platform on their own and then billing is taken off of our plate. So it's not something that we have to have a bunch of resources dedicated to. >> Is there still a big services component though, that you still have to come in to help them as you say kind of define nice projects and good KPI's and kind of good places to start? Or do they often times on the marketplace purchase just go off to the races on their own? >> So it's a combination. If companies are looking to solve a specific problem with an IoT platform like Foundry, it's definitely a self implementable thing and it's becoming more and more self implementable. Foundry really deploys into a customers account using Cloud formation, and Cloud formation templates allow us to kind of create these customized solutions that can then be deployed. So it's-- we're getting a combination of both. >> Yeah, and I would imagine it's taken you into all kinds of markets that you just don't-- you just don't have the manpower to cover when you have a distribution partner at EWS. >> Yeah it's made things a lot faster for us to be able to spin up vertical solutions or specific offerings for a particular large customer. Marketplace can take care of all of the infrastructure on that. >> Alright so what are you looking for here at Reinvent 2018? You've been coming to these things for awhile. I know Andy's tweeting out, his keynote is ready to have the chicken wing contest I think, last night at midnight. Too late for me, I didn't make it. (laughs) >> For us I mean, some of the more exciting things that are out there are the emergence of server-less right? You see server-less, all of those AWS services really taking off. >> Right. >> But there's also the Sumarian, the ARVR's really kind of exploding. So for us it's really about, this is a great place for us to see the direction that AWS is heading and then make sure that our offering, and our technology is layered on top of that appropriately. >> And what are you hearing from your customers about Edge? All the talk about Edge and there's some fudd I think going about how does Edge work with Cloud and to me it's like two completely separate technology applications, but then you know what you're trying to accomplish. As kind of the buzzwords, Edge gets beyond the buzz and actually starts to be implemented, what do you kind of seeing and how's that working together with some of the services that Amazon's got? >> I mean Edge architecture's are an important component to a solution. Especially solutions that require real time data processing and decision making at the shop floor or whatever you have. AWS has taken very big strides toward creating service offerings and products down at the Edge that interface well with the Cloud. So for us, our perspective on it is that the Edge is really a reflection of the business logic and the processes and things that we define and build for a customer. Because ultimately those Edge processes have to feed the enterprise processes, which is what we really focus on right? How do we get machine data into enterprise systems? So Edge technology for us is definitely a consideration and when we build our select technology solutions, we look at Edge as a component in that architecture and we try to meet the needs of the customers specific use case when it comes to Edge. >> Right. Yeah it's not killing the Cloud. Who said that? - Right. >> So silly. >> Yeah it can't kill it. >> It's not slowing down this thing. >> Right. Alright Carl well thanks for taking a few minutes and have great Reinvent. >> Yeah thank you. - [Jeff] Hydrate. >> Thanks for your time. Definitely. - They say hydrate. Alright he's Carl, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCube. We're at AWS Marketplace inservice catalog experience. We're at the Aria in the quads. Stop on by. Thanks for watching we'll see you next time.

>> From the Aria Resort in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS Marketplace. (upbeat music) Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. (crowd talking) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at AWS re:Invent 2018, it's a ton of people. We're actually are not in the Sands tonight, we're kicking things off at the Aria at a place called the Quad. It's the AWS Marketplace and Service Catalog Experience Hub. Come on by, they got the foosball, the liquor's out, the food is out, and really kicking off a great event. We're excited to have a first-timer to theCUBE, but a long-timer from the industry. He's Mike Silvey, co-founder and EVP of Moogsoft. Mike, great to see you. >> Thank you very much. >> So it's a little early to ask you your impressions of the show, I'd love to ask you on Thursday afternoon, but so far, what do you think? >> Pretty good, I mean, I've been busy all day. The booth's been, you know, obviously just starting, but we've had meetings with everybody all day so far, and yeah, crazy. >> It's a show like no other. It's really something else. >> Well for a company outside, it's really cool, because we've got a couple of events here at the Quad, on machine learning and on DevOps. We got a booth. We got people you showcase elsewhere. And yeah, very, very, cool. Lovely. >> Right and you're on theCUBE. >> I'm on theCUBE. Hi. >> So for people that aren't familiar with Moogsoft, give us just kind of the quick overview. >> Okay, yeah, so we set up the company to really help transform the economics of the digital migration. So what we mean by that is, you as well know, and all the statistics show that the more you move to modularized software and take advantage of the cloud with Agile, the more costly your operations costs are. In other words, your development productivity goes down because you spent more time doing operations than they do developing. So what we're here to do is make sure that our customers who are all major enterprise corporations, they've got a hybrid world of major enterprise on-premise and then their cloud transition. We're making sure that they can transform, stay agile, but while increasing the development productivity and reducing their operation's costs. It's as simple as that. >> Right, but you were coming at it from a kind of a different perspective. We talked a little bit before we turned the cameras on. You guys are investing really heavily in core technology. Not necessarily building a big sales force or building a big marketing department, but really core technology. So I wonder if you can kind of talk about that strategy and your pursuit of really going down that path. >> Yeah, no, fair. So I guess it comes from our background. If you look at our history, we did ... Well, some of those managers you mentioned. >> I wasn't going to say anything. >> That's a long way back. I'm very old. We did Micromuse years ago at a time of the client server transformation, we did RiverSoft at the time of the dot com boom, and then moved to root cause. You know, today we're in this digital transformation where single faults no longer cause issues. It's a combination of faults over here and micro-changes over there that lead to some kind of service or capacity degradation that leads to customer impact. And the problem our customers have is detecting that impact before the end users are impacted. Our perceived competitors out there, folks like Splunk and ServiceNow, no investment in IP. They're trying to take all technologies and all techniques to solve a problem that they just can't solve. What we've done is invested in unique IP for that problem. So far, 44 patents at this time. We've invested in a huge number of PhD scientists to achieve what we've done. And we've developed some specific technology, for our machine learning, AI, collaborative and social operations to really give you that economic value. >> Right, because your mission is really AI for IT ops, right? >> That's right, perfect. >> I pulled it right off the website. >> Nice. Yeah, so really what that stands for is earlier detection of actual issues. Now on that case, there's an airline that is American that I can't mention, so you can't use it on camera, who last year had a rather public outage. So they had a six hour outage where they were unable to schedule flights because the grand handling software failed. This year, they have Moogsoft. Our software detected an incident that they could action earlier, resolve before it impacted their grand handling system. They realized that if our software hadn't shown them that issue, unknown, unknown, they would have had a four and a half hour minimum outage of flights across the U.S. >> That's expensive. >> Quite expensive. Thank you. (Jeff laughs) So early detection, fewer actual issues, so you think, you've got DevOps teams. One DevOps team has an issue, normally the rest of the teams are impacted, they all spend time investigating. With our software, we show the team that's got the issues, that got the problem. We show everybody their collateral damage, don't waste time. So we improve the productivity there and then we help them remediate much earlier without customer impact, so there you are. >> So we're here at the AWS Marketplace Experience. That's a mouthful. But I'd just love to get your perspective on you said specifically you guys are targeting a lot of investment in IP. How does partnering with Amazon and the Marketplace enable you to really build the company differently than, as you said back in the old days, when you didn't have really kind of a distribution opportunity like this? >> Good question, so I guess we started the company as an on-premise product targeting very large corporations. The kinds of customers we have ... HCL the MSP space, Wipro the MSP space, people like GoDaddy, Yahoo, folks like that, and then some financial services. We started in the on-prem world, and as those customers have started their migration to hybrid, it became really clear that Amazon was focusing on that area as well. And what the AWS Marketplace has allowed us to do is massively shorten frankly our sales cycle with our customers with very large scale deals. But also help those customers adopt our software much more quickly as well. It works really well for Amazon, it works really well for our customers, and works really well for us. Earlier value, you had much bigger customer adoption much more quickly and the Marketplace benefits because we help those customers transition over to the Marketplace much more quickly as well. To take advantage of Agile. >> Right, and I don't think a lot of people give enough credit, especially for a smaller company, how hard it is to do business with a big company. Not because of anything with the technology, but just in terms of getting through, getting it, being it approved. >> Commercials. >> Just being an approved vendor, you say the commercials can be the biggest hurdle to actually closing the deal. It has nothing to do with whether the buyer wants to buy it or whether it's a great technology fit. So by using the Marketplace, you basically just taking all that difficulty right off the table. >> The Marketplace has the enterprise contract. If the customer has an enterprise contract, they could just buy our software, no EULA, no commercials with us. That's it, thank you very much. We get paid, everybody's happy. And those customers get to save money as well, but I probably shouldn't say that. (Jeff laughs) And then how's it been just working with Amazon as a partner? Some people are scared. They're like, "You know, they're so big. "And if they find something they like, they're just going to "roll up it in the big machine." So how's it been working with Amazon as a partner? >> Quite amazing actually. I don't want to get to sycophantic with Amazon here, but ... First, we were a tiny company really with 200 people. Okay, we're selling above our weight, I guess, with the customers we have. They changed the Marketplace to do deals for us. I've been amazed. So we founded the company on the principle we wanted to bring joy to our customers, meaning we wanted to be agile, customer focused very customer centric. I've never met a large corporation like Amazon who's so customer focused. So with particular customers, we've done Marketplace transactions. Very high value, very large scale. Amazon's changed the Marketplace in ours to facilitate those deals for the customers. I mean in terms of the engagements we have with the CloudWatch team and the CloudTrial and the AWS management teams, they're working with us on product changes to help those customers for us. It's really, really cool. Totally different experience. Something you don't expect from a very large corporation. >> Well, I think it's great 'cause you have alignment 'cause they really still care abut the customer first. They probably love having you as a partner, but not before they like the customer. It sounds like a good symbiotic relationship. >> It's been really good. >> All right, well, Mike, I'm going to track you down on Thursday night and get your impressions of the show. >> Super. >> Because you're going to be blown away. Thanks for taking a few minutes of your day. >> Thanks very much. Cheers. >> All right, he's Mike. I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at AWS Marketplace and Service Center Experience Hub at the Aria. Come on by. (upbeat music)

>> From the Aria Resort in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS marketplace. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are kicking off three crazy days at AWS re:Invent. It is the place to be the week after Thanksgiving. There's got to be 50,000 people, we haven't got the official word, but it's packed and it kicks off tonight with a reception. We're here at the AWS Marketplace and Service Catalog Experience over at the Aria, in the quad, come check us out. A lot of good stuff going on. A lot of fun stuff going on. And we're excited to have first time to theCUBE, he's Nathan Dyer, Senior Product Manager for Tenable. Great to see you. >> Jeff, great to be here. Thanks for having me. >> Yeah, have the energy the opened the doors the people are streaming in. >> I don't know if it's the food or the drinks or the vendors. >> All of the above. Probably more the food and the drinks. All right. So give us an overview of Tenable for people who aren't familiar with the company. >> Yeah, so Tenable, we are the cyber exposure company. We help organizations assess, manage, and measure their cyber risk across their entire organization, across their monitored tax surface. And so what we try to do is help answer four fundamental questions around security. How exposed are we? How do we prioritize based on risk, how are we doing over time from a measurement standpoint, and then how do we compare with our peers? And so, if you haven't heard of Tenable, chances are you've heard of Nessus, which is one of our flagship brands. Nessus just turned 20 years young earlier this year. If you're pen tester, if you're a consultant if you're a practitioner, you know Nessus. But over the years we've added some other brands as well. Security Center which is now renamed Tenable.sc which is our On-Prem vulnerability management solution. And then tenable.io which was released in 2017 which is our cloud based vulnerability management solution and built on AWS. >> Right. So I was doing some research, I love your guys' little mantra here, it's security for code, for clouds and containers. You got all the C's there. The containers, you know, what's going on with Docker over the last couple of years and now obviously the huge groundswell with Kubernetes, you know this container thing, depending on who you talk to has been around for a long time but it certainly didn't have the momentum. How's the kind of the growth of the container world impacted the securities base? >> Oh, it's massive. Containers are everywhere. In fact there's a strong affinity to cloud and containers. So a lot of our large AWS customers love containers. They've been dabbling with containers for quite some time. They're moving more and more workloads to be containerized and on Kubernetes, Dockers, et cetera. From a securities standpoint that introduces a lot of challenges, right. They're short lived life cycles of docker containers make it very hard for us in security to assess or discover them. They're part of the whole immutable infrastructure phenomenon, so you can't patch it in production, right. Infrastructure is code. You have to tear down the container, fix the image and then redeploy. So from our perspective, we think you have to secure containers by focusing on the container image. Specifically as developers are spinning up new code, compiling new builds, creating new container images, is it running quality assurance checks? Security has to be a critical part of that quality assurance process. As you're doing integration tests, unit testing, API testing, security has to be a critical test looking for vulnerabilities and malwares is part of that process. >> But the rate of change in those images is pretty high. I mean, the rate of deployments is super high, but like you said a lot of them have short life spans, they're up or they're down. So, have people baked that in to their process? I mean, obviously, I hope they are. Or how are you helping them to make sure that security is a really key piece to that image. Because once that image goes out it has access to all kinds of things. >> So, the new news with containers, and then by focusing on the image it forces security teams to talk to their development peers. In order to secure DevOps and secure containers, security has to be embedded into continuous integration, into continuous delivery cycles or systems. And if you're focusing on development, you have a much greater chance of making sure that vulnerable container images are not escaping into the wild. And you guys should get a hold of those vulnerable images and make sure they adhere to policies before they're released into production. So that's the new news. >> Well, it's funny because you reference the DevOps. 'Cause DevOps has now been around for a while and clearly is the way the code gets deployed in a very rapid iteration. So they're some significant lessons from the DevOps security angle that you're now using then on the container side. Yeah, well first thing with secure DevOps and Devops in general, is that you have to get the developers and security teams to talk. You have to have a shared understanding of what makes each other tick. What are the goals, what are the responsibilities, priorities, understand each other and it turns out there's actually a lot of shared understanding and mutual benefit between infosec and application developments. When security is focused on solving for vulnerabilities and looking for security issues, that's improving code quality. That's removing some of the software defects from the development code and developers love that. They love producing high quality code. On the flip side, security teams can learn a lot about agile development. DevOps principles. Bringing DevOps into the security discipline, and help security teams start to leverage automation and continuous testing, continuous delivery, and make them much more scalable and productive in their organizations. So there's a lot of mutual of understanding there. >> Right. So I'd imagine there's a lot of, kind of similarities between classic waterfall and the moat, versus now kind of the DevOps and the continuous and ongoing constant process. >> That's exactly right. >> Yeah. So we're here at the AWS Marketplace. So you guys are selling through the marketplace, how has that been for the company? How has the experience been working with the AWS marketplace team? >> Oh, it's been great. I mean, Amazon is a great partner to work with. Tenable.io which is our cloud based vulnerability management solution is built on Amazon. We have a great relationship with Amazon engineers. Now for the marketplace, we've been selling Nessus for quite some time through the marketplace. So if you're a Nessus subscriber, if you're a tenable.io or securities center or tenable.sc subscriber, you get access to unlimited Nessus scanners and you can provision them very easily through the marketplace. It's super easy. Just recently, we now unveiled tenable.io through the marketplace and so far it's been a great success. Now customers who prefer to buy through Amazon marketplace AWS marketplace, can do so with a couple of clicks and be provisioned and get up and running with tenable.io. It's super easy, you can learn about the product. Kick the tires with a free evaluation, and really provision the product very simply. >> Yeah, I would imagine the touch from your guys side goes down significantly when they're just coming right through the marketplace. >> Exactly. That's the idea. Make it super easy for customers to invest in tenable.io and get a great experience in doing it. >> What about your own sales guys though. Is there a little channel conflict? They're like hey come one, I want to sell hat thing, we don't want to go through Amazon. >> Not at all. Our mantra is we want our customer to purchase through the channel they're comfortable with. And if they want to purchase through the AWS marketplace we have a channel for them, if they want to go through our three chair model we have obviously a great experience there as well. >> And clearly Amazon brings a lot of customer eyeballs to the table. >> They're a great partner. >> So, just before we wrap, you guys came out with the vulnerability intelligence report. I wonder if you can share some of the highlights of the things. You guys are obviously keeping track of this, you talked about benchmarking against your peers. And I know there's also a lot of sharing of information within security companies, to kind of know what the bad guys are and some of the patterns and best practices. So, I'm wondering if you can share some of the current trends. What are you seeing? How's the landscape changing? >> Well first of all, we have phenomenal tenable research team. They're phenomenal in terms of the data science, in terms of the vulnerability intelligence. We have a wealth of data in our hands from various deployments and so there's a lot of great number crunching and analysis we can generate from that. What we discovered in the vulnerability and intelligence report, is that security teams are just bombarded with vulnerabilities, literally, bombarded. Last year in 2017 we saw over 15,000 CVE's and unique vulnerabilities hitting the marketplace or hitting the industry. And by the end of this year we're expected to be between 18,000 and 19,000 vulnerabilities. So the trend is just going up, up, up. I think what makes matters worse though, is that when you start looking at those 19,000 vulnerabilities, over 60% of those vulnerabilities are classified as either high risk or critical. >> 65%? >> Around 60%. >> Of the, what was the numerator? 18,000? >> Of those 18,000 to 19,000 vulnerabilities, are classified as high risk or critical risk. So, that's a lot of fire drills that security teams need to chase. And so, what we're trying to achieve is helping our customers, helping the market at large understand what are the true risks out there, not the theoretical risks. What are the actual cyber risks. Meaning what are the vulnerabilities that could be easily exploitable, that have exploit kits already developed. We have our data science team looking at the characteristics of vulnerabilities and which ones would be leveraged by the bad guys and which ones would not be. And we significantly boil that number down so that organizations can focus on only 5% of the number of vulnerabilities that they otherwise would be chasing without changing their overall security risk to the organization. So, prioritization is super, super critical for those organizations. >> Nathan I think we all that separating the signal from the noise. (laughs) >> Jeff, well thanks for having me. >> Nathan, thank you very much, it's great to see you and have a great show. >> Thanks. You too. >> All right, I'm Jeff he's Nathan, you're watching theCUBE. We are at the AWS marketplace and service catalog experience at the Aria, at the quad. Come on by. We're serving free food and drink. See you next time. (lively music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> And welcome back to theCUBE We continue our coverage here live. We are in the Sands at Dell Technologies World 2018. Big show, 14,000 plus they're expecting here. 4,000 just in the business partners summit alone. So a very impressive turnout here in day one, as I said, of three days of coverage on theCUBE. Along with Keith Townsend, I'm John Walls. We're now joined by Lee Caswell who's a VP of Products at VMWare. Lee, good to see you, sir. >> Great to be here, yes. >> John: Every year we get together like this, right? >> Well, you know, there's always something new to talk about, right? >> John: Absolutely, and we're also joined by Chris Stanley here, who's the IT Manager at the Celtic Manor Resorts in Newport, Wales. Chris, the first person from Wales I think I've ever met, as a matter of fact. >> Chris: (laughs) A privilege; thank you. >> For me it is, but thank you for being here. We appreciate the time. So we're talking about your migration, and, really, it wasn't a migration, it was like your head-first dive into the hyper-converged environment. You didn't tiptoe around it, you didn't wade into the water, You guys just dove right in. >> Chris: We're fearless, yes. >> What was the driver of that decision to be so fearless? >> Chris: As an organization, we've grown very quickly the last few years, and we've got significant growth in new hotels and a new conference center coming on board. And we're bursting at the seams in our existing environment, so we needed a platform that we could grow into this new environment very quickly and with predictive costs as best as we could. >> And so, Lee, walking them through this, >> Yeah, >> I mean, there's no convincing to be done here, but you do have to inspire some confidence, right? So somebody who's making a pretty bold move like this how did you approach that, and what did you do as far as assigning? >> Lee: You know, our partnership with Dell EMC is just a great testament here, right? I mean, you've taken the latest of 14G servers, for example, as part of VxRail. So you've got the best in hardware combined with VMWare underlying VCN software packaged up together, right, in a single point of support in a way that really makes us able to drop in and get started. Right, when you think about this, this is also interesting, in that here's a customer you know, in this case, you were using converged infrastructure in the past. >> It really is. Yeah. >> That's very common, right? So people who are looking for the advantage of like, how did I get the operational efficiencies? And now what you find is hyper-converge changes the operational model, and so it's around speed and agility, right? More than cost, right? And so, together, that's kind of the, our partnership is so powerful for customers looking to go and basically drive that kind of efficiency. >> Chris: Definitely, yeah. >> Keith: So, Chris, talk to us about that decision process. In typical organizations, this is Wired U, You're on theCUBE and it's so special. It's easy to talk about use cases on the edge VDI, specific, non-mission critical applications. But when it comes to stuff that runs the business, if it's down, the CIO, the CFO is at someone's desk asking when it's going to be back up. How did this discussion start? Was it from the bottom up, or was it from the top down? Exactly which teams said, "You know what? We need more agility, HCI, go!" >> Chris: Definitely from a bottom up perspective, but supported from top down when we came for it. We could see it in our environment, in our growing environment. We're a 24 hour business in a resort hotel, and we have little downtime Or, sorry, little time to do any upgrades, etc. So resilience within that environment was key to us for our uptime, so failing over with VMWare we use, with the VxWare we get now DRS and the Enterprise version which it comes with which we hadn't in our converged. So there is that automation of balancing your workloads, not having someone there watching it all the time so that has freed up a lot of time for my guys. Going forward there will be a lot more free time as well so we've got more time to concentrate on the guests and how we can make their experience better. >> So the story behind Converged systems, you know you have SAP, Oracle, BASSP, all these mission critical apps mission critical runs on CI and then everything else to run on, even from a vendor support, you know you talk to all the major software vendors, they say you all CI is the best opportunity. How did that conversation go with vendors when you said you know what, we're going to run mission critical on, I'm assuming vSAN? >> Lee: This is on vSAN in VxRail. >> vSAN, you know, we can't see your TR1 software providers and you know what, we're all vSAN, global size and scope, global? >> What, as an environment? >> Yes. >> It's a global environment really of over four hotels at the moment but growing into a bigger environment. We're going for an international conference center so kind of this sort of size, not quite as big as this but we're definitely not support from the hyper converged. And all our core systems are written on it, yes. Big Oracle databases, SQL, and our exchange service and there was a split between two clusters now in VxRail so we can, we can fail over to a node in VxRail, we can fail over to a cluster as well so as an SLE for up time we're business critical and the guys at the top of Celtic Manor have seen how that is for business you know. If we're not serving people or taking money then we're giving money back in a case for disruption. >> All right so you've been into this for a little bit less than a year now, correct? >> Correct, yes. >> I know Lee's sitting right next to you but let's just for a moment. I'm sure there has been at least a troubling moment of that transition or at least a hiccup somewhere that you had to settle, you had a problem, right? Something came up, if someone's watching this, thinking I wonder what they got hit with and how they handled it, how did you work around that, how did you adapt that, what would that be? What was the, maybe the one little hiccup right now that you've successfully- >> With deployment? >> Yeah. >> Nothing much but when we were migrating from a Converged infrastructure to a hyperconverged we added on the SANs to the hyperconverged so we could see them migrate over. A couple of servers didn't take too well to that one being motioned over. Nothing of the critical ones thankfully. But they, it was either a Windows update or once they restarted, it was only two of the servers but, we used the recover point then within VxRail and literally go back five, 10 minutes, which we did and up and running again, switched over, and we were you know, back up and running, but it was we had the decision there of, how long do we troubleshoot it for or do we just, that was our first instance of using recover point so we hadn't done it in a live environment so it was kind of, okay and pretty much out but it worked and it filled us with a lot of confidence now that we could do, we have that resilience going forward in an environment. >> Well let's talk about day two. >> I was just going to comment Ray, that this is part of the partnership that's so powerful for us right, is, you know I think VMWare learn that supporting storage systems, as we know, it's a little different than just computing. You know this, right, I mean, you know the idea of like, hey listen, a purple screen isn't the worst that can happen, 'cause you can reboot, right? It's really about, like, my data. And so when you start thinking about that, the ability for us to partner with Dell AMC who understands what it means to be supporting in a datacentric world, like that element, right is so powerful for us, right, because we've got a partner here who really understands the ability and that's part of the powerful concept of VxRail. >> So we had Tom Burns earlier and we were talking about VI and the importance of CI and there's still a great, I think, desire and temptation, and valid that CI gets you on the ground, running quickly, complex systems, easily deployed relative to traditional architectures. Talk to me about the practical of HCI, Day 2 Operations, CI, relatively easy to deploy but you still have some traditional operations concerns. What specifically did you guys see as the advantage Day two once you went to ACI? What's saving you all this time? >> Purely I think the time saver is the management of the system or the lack of management that we now need to do. There's, you've got one pane of glass to see everything which is very nice, you haven't got something separate for your SANs, your SX hosts, your networking and that support that you have, you know, there's one of them to call. You're not fighting between different entities saying it's your fault, it's your fault, there you go, sort it, so again that has freed up a lot of time, you know not knowing who to call or where to call but, you know, having one person who's going to sort it out and take ahold of that and fix it for you. And the remote support then, which is very good you know, you've got someone else monitoring your systems if you enable it, so you've got Dell support there and they can potentially see something before you do so I kind of gained another IT person for in this solution which is very nice. >> Yeah, we kind of joke you know, that a lot of people talk about hyperconvergence as if it's about us, but hyperconvergence is about you. When you think about it, right, it's about hyperconverging the IT staff. If you can hyperconverge the staff, right, that's when hyperconvergence does well, when we have one team, it's a converged team and people are like, hey listen, I'm going to go to a VMcentric management model. Now I can go and debug things right from a single console which is V center. That model works really fast, right? And where Converged still does a good job, right, is where I've got storage scaling at big scale but separate from compute separate. Hyperconvergence is about, it's about the organizational environment right? >> Very much so, bringing it all together, yeah. And it's simplistic in VMWare being so tightly integrated with VxRail was our main call against the other vendors, as a big call to, while they, you know, it's the best chef with the best ingredients, let's use that, not a dessert chef with the best ingredients >> Yeah, we have 500,000 customers who are familiar with V Center, right, and if you know V Center you know V SAN, you know VxRail, right? >> You can get simplistic again, so you already know it. >> Yeah, right. >> Well we could talk about this til we're blue in the face. I think we need to go see it in operation, don't you Keith? >> We'll set you up with some golf >> Now we're talking, be careful Chris, what you offer. Lee, Chris, good to see you guys. Thanks for being with us, we appreciate you sharing the story. Thank you very much. Back with more, here from Dell Technologies World we are live on theCUBE in Las Vegas.

>> Presenter: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE! Covering Dell Technologies World 2018! Brought to you by Dell EMC, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the Cube! We are live at Day One of Dell Technologies World in Las Vegas. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante, and we are joined by two guests. We have Shannon Champion, Product Marketing of HCI at Dell EMC, and we have her customer, from Celtic Manor, Chris Stanley, IT Manager. Hey Chris! >> Hi. >> Welcome to the Cube, you guys! >> Thank you, thank you very much! >> And we just timed this perfect music intro for you! >> They knew, they knew! >> So Chris, Celtic Manor, you're based in Wales, talk to us about Celtic Manor, what it is that you do, before we start talking about your IT and Digital Transformations. >> Yeah sure, so we're a collection of hotels, four, in South Wales. Within that four, there is a resort hotel, with a conference center. We offer lots of facilities to our guests, golf courses, spas, all the niceties, bars, restaurants, and as well as the conference business being quite a big side of that. And we've got a lot of growth coming on with new hotels and a new convention center. Yeah, and we've got a staff of around about a thousand at the moment, half of those being PC end-users, and a small IT team of eight supporting all those people. >> So a lot of locations, a lot of stuff, a lot of data. Talk to us about what you're doing with Dell EMC, where did you start from, infrastructure-wise? And where are you now? >> Infrastructure-wise, we've been a Dell Partner probably since 2014. That was, we were the previous vendor before, and now at Dell EMC House, always good news, eh! (chuckles) And, our VxRail journey has begun, probably the last eight months, with a new convention center opening, which is an international one, International Convention Center Wales, a joint venture with the Welsh government there. And it's something that's, whereas we've got a lot of conference business now, we do very well at it, we have to turn away a lot of conference business because we're not big enough. So this facility can offer up to 4,000 people in the main room, 1,500-seat auditorium, as well as other breakout rooms. So sort of 6,000 potential guests on-site. And we needed some technology to support that, so we engaged with Dell EMC, and VxRail was our choice. We briefly evaluated others, but Dell EMC, we had a proven past with a great support and strategic partnership, so it was an easy decision. >> So we're going to get into sort of the details there, but Shannon, let me bring you into the conversation. Last time we really spent any time together was in the 14G Launch. You helped orchestrate a lot of the messaging of that, so give us the update on HCI and VxRail, did that awesome marketing package that you put together, is it living up to the marketplace! (all laughing) >> Well thank you for that softball, Dave! Yes, yeah! So in November we were talking to you about HCI and 14th-generation PowerEdge servers, and how PowerEdge is really designed with software-defined storage in mind, and how that really set itself up well for HCI. And what it does is open up doors to being applicable for even more mainstream workloads and applications because of the power and predictability that provides, and Celtic Manor is a perfect example of that, in terms of, initially, using VxRail to scale quickly and reliably for a majority of their workloads and applications, actually. And now, are moving to VDI where, historically, VDI has really been the entry point for HCI. So it's really exciting to see that sort of flip-flop use case here. >> Right, it was like the obligatory workload or use case, right? >> Chris: We like to be different. (laughing) >> Well, I mean, your business is different, right? >> Yes! >> I wonder if you could start with some of the business drivers, right? I mean, obviously, very competitive industry, but you've got some unique differentiators, right, experiences that you're offering customers is somewhat different. But what's driving your business? Speed, digital disruption, maybe you could talk about that a little bit. >> Organizational growth was a key one. With new hotels and conference centers coming on we were bursting at the seams with our current environment. >> Good problem! >> Yeah, so we're all very good. But it was supporting that for customers going forward as well as our staff, supporting with the systems and reliability that we can, to ensure that we get the businesses doing, you know, its utmost. And then, yeah, going on from there, we offer all these different kinds of facilities on-site, golf, bedrooms, spas, all needing different systems, from booking systems through to your VOIP systems, your big databases, Oracle databases, on these servers. So quite a hard workload on them. And we're looking for something that was easy for us to manage, you know, going forward. >> So Chris in terms of IT transformation, Michael Dell talked this morning about these four transformative elements that a company should take to be successful. Digital, IT, workforce, security, talking about the opportunity for IT innovation, to really convert IT into a profit center. And where IT innovation is successful is where customers are looking at it as a business strategy. Talk to us about the stakeholders, maybe, from the CFO's perspective, of, "Hey, we have a great opportunity here "to capture more business and be more competitive." What was that conversation like, the IT folks to the CFO to get budget and approval to help transform? >> Always a tough conversation. (chuckling) Going from the past experience where we'd initially gone with a converge solution back in 2014 with Dell, that alone saved us a significant amount in power alone, so it was something that paid for itself. >> So the CFO was already like, "Alright guys"-- >> Yeah, you know what you're doing, so yeah. We took that, we could see where our pain points were in the environment we currently had, and with it, all the additional hotels, conference centers, coming on, we were at a key stage where we needed to, from the core, build outwards. So VxRail was and obvious-er choice, I should say, in the end. But it was key to transformation, because it enables us now to look at other methods. It's freed up a lot of time for IT staff, so we're looking at deploying a virtual desktop solution now which we don't currently have. And that could be initially anything from up to 300 virtual desktops, so big load, but we now have the core capacity there to do it. And we're looking at other things for our guests, where we can give them a better experience. So Artificial Intelligence, AI, is very big on the agenda, so we look at everything. There's face recognition systems now that can recognize the guests when they come in, ping a message, we haven't deployed these yet, we're still looking at them. But it's enabled us to look at these now with the power behind us of the 14G service. So it's all, it's a key enabler for us, the VxRail solution. >> Opening up the potential for emerging technologies, artificial intelligence, machine learning... >> Yes, very much so. >> How do you differentiate from your HCI competition? What are some of the touchpoints there? >> Well, from a VMware focus perspective, you know, Celtic Manor has deployed VxRail. Our differentiator is that we're the only provider through our strategically-aligned business relationship that is jointly engineered with VMware. And so what that means, from a customer point of view, is a more seamless experience, right. Familiar tools they already know and love, that they use day to day, from a VMware perspective, for day-to-day management. But then also the automation that's built in. Automated deployment, ability to upgrade with one click, seamless process to scale quickly when you have new hotels coming online, for example. And then have a single point of support. So we take one single call, whether it's hardware or software, for VxRail. If there's an issue, call Dell EMC and a lot of customers find a lot of value in that. >> So, okay, Chris, now I've got to ask you. So you heard that from Dell EMC, but a lot of companies would say, "Well, we get along great with VMware, "we get the SDKs early, "yeah, those guys overplay all that stuff." What, from your perspective, how important is what Shannon just laid out? And how real is it? >> It's very real. And Shannon basically, yeah, all those points there were literally what we were struggling with. We had the one support telephone company to call, imperative to us. We'd been ringing, in the past we'd be ringing Sand Storage, we were ringing ESX, VMware, all blaming each other, and you're going back and forth and you're wasting key time. With one support number now, you know, you've one call, you've got a one-stop-shop to sort it. So that was a big, big call for us. The 14G service as well, we also get the recover points which enables us to have two environments where we can lose one, and one total environment lost, but still operate as a business. So all of these, keeping, giving us uptimes to close to 100% as we can. >> Have your had to test that yet? Or, when I say test, has it actually, have you had to fail over? I mean, you probably tested it, hopefully you tested it, but-- >> We have-- >> Dave: Has it tested you yet, let me put it that way! >> Yeah, we have failed over servers. We haven't failed over a whole cluster, because you hope it's one of the things you hope you never have to do. (Shannon laughing) We've tested the procedure between nodes, as you would, and there is, we have tested recently with the Recover Point software, where we have lost servers, and it's a decision then, do we try to troubleshoot the problem or do we just go back a few minutes when it was working and we just, we gave it an hour to sort it out, it was impacting, so we just rolled back as if it never happened! >> It worked! >> Yeah, which was a nice reaffirmation that what we did was right! >> So Shannon you talked about resiliency, speed. There was an analyst report, recently, that I'd like you to kind of enlighten us on. And kind of look at one of the thing Chris said, in terms of getting back to the business cost savings. How does Celtic Manor's achievement so far kind of align with what you're seeing in terms of customers being able to leverage HCI to be more budget friendly? >> Yeah, so, I think you're referring to our IT Maturity Study. And what we're seeing is that the majority of customers, almost all of them, are telling us that if they don't transform in their industry, then they'll no longer be competitive. So I think all of our customers are kind of coming to that realization. One of the key aspects to that is that a year ago, when we asked the same question, a significantly lower number was mentioned. So I think that just speaks to the speed and the urgency that customers are coming to the realization that it's really important to transform, and we need to do it sooner rather than later. We have a lot of proof points around VxRail, particularly, in terms of the automation. You know, 73% faster to deploy, that means value to customers. That's money that they're saving, directly. And lower serviceability costs overall, over 40% lower. So that translates into real TCO, goes back to the CFO, you know, that helps understand the investment that they're making, lets them reprioritize in other areas of the business that helps them transform and stay innovative in their industry. >> I want to follow up on that last point that Shannon just made. And a lot of times, when you're bringing in some kind of consolidation, the staff says, "Uh oh, "that means I'm going to lose my job, "because I'm really good at revisioning LANs" or whatever it is. How did you address that, was there organizational tension, what did you do with the time that was freed up? >> Yeah, I think it's helped transform the IT team. If anything, it's freed up time, but that time is now taken, it's given us more time to look at innovative products and going forwards. There is, our staff has a tendency to specialize more as opposed to generalize, which is nice. As in, the VxRail has sat there, and it's pretty much doing what you would do with minimal amounts of watching over them, with the remote support, who also watch your environment, if you enable it. If you have any outages there, they can potentially draw your attention to it before you even know. So lots of time's been freed up, and now you can see the staff are embracing it there, they're happy they've got this additional time not to be doing the not-so-important stuff, as we say, although it is very important, to keep it going. But they have more time now to specialize in what they mostly enjoy. So it's brought it on full circle now, so it's really, yeah, we're really seeing some positives. >> And hang out with their families on the weekends. (everyone speaking at once in agreement) So since they're not doing that, and they have more time to innovate, where are you on this data center modernization journey? And where, we talked about VDI, but where do you think you are in that journey? >> With respect to, with VDI, we are imminently doing it. We finished deploying the second VxRail cluster, the five S Series nodes, probably only a couple weeks ago, after a full migration of all the existing VMs. So it's now enabling us to look at VDI, which, ironically, when we get back, the week I get back, we have a meeting with Dell EMC on, do we need another node, all flash, or do we, we have specced within five nodes, some capacity for virtual desktops. But it's, again, something that, with all these additional hotels coming on, the conference centers, virtual desktop is the way to go. Even centralizing the data more so people aren't taking all data off of their laptops, so we're a more secure environment. So again, a great enabler for us, and finally, after four or five years, I get the virtual desktop! Done it the other way around, but-- >> Do you golf? >> I used to golf a lot. >> Okay, so you know what a mulligan is. >> Yeah. >> So, if you had a mulligan, what would you do differently? >> Um, what would I do differently? Good question! >> I mean, specific to this project. (chuckling) >> Nothing, really. I think everything pretty much has been done as I would expect. When we first deployed the conference center, the new conference center environment, it was a bit disjointed, because the conference center wasn't built and in full use. It kind of gave us some time to test the environment fully, which we also did with the Dell VxRail test drives, which I know the guys offer you were you can go into a classroom facility for a day and see it in action before you actually purchase and use it. >> Same question, different spin. Advice for your peers. Because obviously you had some successes. What would you tell them, to be successful? >> Just go for it! If you're thinking it, I mean, it is, as far as I can see, it is the future product, and it's not going to go in any other direction. The management side of things is far more simplistic than everything else we've experienced in the past. And it's baked-in VMware so, you know, you have the best chef and the best ingredients with the best thing as opposed to another chef taking the best ingredients and trying to do something. So yeah, it's just seamless integration now, and it gives us a lot of confidence that we have everything there with Dell, and this environment, to go forward and grow even bigger as a business. >> And then we've cued your outro music. >> Perfect! >> Timed that perfectly! Chris, thank you so much for sharing what you're doing at Celtic Manor to innovate, making your IT transformation. Shannon, thank you for sharing what's new with HCI. Dave, thank you for sharing with me the word "mulligan", I just looked it up. In case you don't know what a mulligan is, it is an extra stroke allowed after a poor golf shot. I probably would be like the mulligan queen. >> You get a few. (chuckles) >> We want to thank you for watching the Cube, we are live on Day One of Dell Technologies World. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante, stick around, we'll be right back after a short break. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from the Wigwam in Phoenix, Arizona. It's theCUBE covering Data Platforms 2017. Brought to you by Qubole. >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at the historic Wigwam Resort. 99 years young just outside of Phoenix. At Data Platforms 2017. I'm Jeff Frick here with George Gilbert from Wikibon who's co-hosting with me all day. Getting to the end of the day. And we're excited to have our next guest. She is Kellyn Gorman. The technical intelligence manager and also the office of the CTO at Delphix, welcome. >> Yes, thank you, thank you so much. >> Absolutely, so what is Delphix for people that aren't familiar with Delphix? >> Most of realize that the database and data in general is the bottleneck and Delphix completely revolutionizes that. We remove it from being the bottleneck by virtualizing data. >> So you must love this show. >> Oh I do, I do. I'm hearing all about all kinds of new terms that we can take advantage of. >> Right, Cloud-Native and SEPRATE, you know and I think just the whole concept of atomic computing. Breaking down, removing storage, from serve. Breaking it down into smaller parts. Sounds like it fits right into kind of your guys will house. >> Yeah, I kind of want to containerize it all and be able to move it everywhere. But I love it. Yeah. >> So what do you think of this whole concept of Data Ops? We've been talking about Dev Ops for, I don't know how long... How long have we been talking about Dev Ops George? Five years? Six years? A while? >> Yeah a while (small chuckle) >> But now... >> Actually maybe eight years. >> Jeff: you're dating yourself George. (all laugh) Now we're talking about Data Ops, right? And there's a lot of talk of Data Ops. So this is the first time I've really heard it coined in such a way where it really becomes the primary driver in the way that you basically deliver value inside your organization. >> Oh absolutely. You know I come from the database realm. I was a DBA for over two decades and Dev Ops was a hard sell to a lot of DBAs. They didn't want to hear about it. I tried to introduce it over and over. The idea of automating and taking us kind of out this manual intervention. That introduced many times human error. So Dev Ops was a huge step forward getting that out of there. But the database was still in data in general was still this bottleneck. So Data Ops is the idea that you automate all of this and if you virtualize that data we found with Delphix that removed that last hurdle. And that was my, I guess my session was on virtualizing big data. The idea that I could take any kind of structured or unstructured file and virtualize that as well and instead of deploying it to multiple environments, I was able to deploy it once and actually do IO on demand. >> So let's peel the onion on that a little bit. What does it mean to virtualize data? And how does that break databases' bottleneck on the application? >> Well right now, when you talk about a relational data or any kind of legacy data store, people are duplicating that through our kick processes. So if we talk about Oracle they're using things like Datapump. They're using transportable table spaces. These are very cumbersome they take a very long time. Especially with the introduction of the cloud, there's many room for failure. It's not made for that, especially as the network is our last bottleneck. Is what we're also feeling too for many of these folks. When we introduce big data, many of these environments many of these, I guess you'd say projects came out of open source. They were done as a need, as a necessity to fulfill. And they've got a lot of moving pieces. And to be able to containerize that and then deploy it once and the virtualize it so instead of let's say you have 16 gigs that you need to duplicate here and over and over again. Especially if you're going on-prem or to the cloud. That I'm able to do it once and then do that IO on demand and go back to a gold copy a central location. And it makes it look like it's there. I was able to deploy a 16 gig file to multiple environments in less than a minute. And then each of those developers each have their own environment. Each tester has their own and they actually have a read write full robust copy. That's amazing to folks. All of a sudden, they're not held back by it. >> So our infrastructure analysts and our Wikibon research CTO David Floyer, if I'm understanding this correctly, talks about this where it's almost like a snapshot. >> Absolutely >> And it's a read write snapshot although you're probably not going to merge it back into the original. And this way Dev tests and whoever else wants to operate on live data can do that. >> Absolutely, it's full read write what we call it data version control. We've always had version control at the cold level. You may of had it at the actual server level. But you've rarely ever had it at the data level for the database or with flat files. What I used was the cms.gov data. It's available to everyone, it's public data. And we realized that these files were quite large and cumbersome. And I was able to reproduce it and enhance what they were doing at TIME magazine. And create a used case that made sense to a lot of people. Things that they're seeing in their real world environments. >> So, tell us more, elaborate how dev ops expands on this, I'm sorry, not dev ops data ops. How, take that as an example and generalize it some more so that we see how if DBAs were a bottleneck. How they now can become an enabler? >> One it's getting them to raise new skills. Many DBAs think that their value relies on those archaic processes. "It's going to take me three weeks to do this." So I have three weeks of value. Instead of saying "I am going to be able to do this in one day" and those other resources are now also valuable because they're doing their jobs. We're also seeing that data was seen as the centralized point. People were trying to come up with these pain points of solution to them. We're able to take that out completely. And people are able to embrace agility. They have agile environments now. Dev Ops means that they're able to automate that very easily instead of having that stopping point of constantly hitting a data and saying "I've got to take time to refresh this." "How am I going to refresh it?" "Can I do just certain..." We hear about this all the time with testing. When I go to testing summits, they are trying to create synchronized virtualized data. They're creating test data sets that they have to manage. It may not be the same as production where I can actually create a container of the entire developmental production environment. And refresh that back. And people are working on their full product. There's no room for error that you're seeing. Where you would have that if you were just taking a piece of it. Or if you were able to just grab just one tier of that environment because the data was too large before. >> So would the automation part be a generation of snapshot one or more snapshots. And then the sort of orchestration distribution to get it to the intended audiences? >> Yes, and we would use >> Okay. things like Jenkins through Chev normal dev ops tools work along with this. Along with command line utilities that are part of our product. To allow people to just create what they would create normally. But many times it's been siloed and like I said, work around that data. We've included the data as part of that. That they can deploy it just as fast. >> So a lot of the conversation here this morning was really about put the data all in this through your or pick your favorite public cloud to enable access to all the applications to the UPIs, through all different types of things. How does that impact kind of what you guys do in terms of conceptually? >> If you're able to containerize that it makes you capable of deploying to multiple clouds. Which is what we're finding. About 60% of our customers are in more than one cloud, two to five exactly. As we're dealing with that and recognizing that it's kind of like looking at your cloud environments. Like your phone providers. People see something shiny and new a better price point, lesser dollar. We're able to provide that one by saving all that storage space. It's virtualized, it's not taking a lot of disc space. Second of all, we're seeing them say "You know, I'm going to go over to Google." Oh guess what? This project says they need the data and they need to actually take the data source over to Amazon now. We're able to do that very easily. And we do it from multi tier. Flat files, the data, legacy data sources as well as our application tier. >> Now, when you're doing these snapshots, my understanding if I'm getting it right, is it's like a, it's not a full Xerox. It's more like the Delta. Like if someone's doing test dev they have some portion of the source of the source of truth, and as they make changes to it, it grows to include the edits until they're done, in which case then the whole thing is blown away. >> It depends on the technology you're looking at. Ours is able to trap that. So when we're talking about a virtual database, we're using the native recovery mechanisms. To kind of think of it as a perpetual recovery state inside our Delphix engine. So those changes are going on and then you have your VDBs that are a snapshot in time that they're working on. >> Oh so like you take a snapshot and then it's like a journal >> the transactional data is from the logs is continually applied. Of course it's different depending on each technology. So we do it differently for Cybase versus Oracle versus Sequal server and so on and so forth. Virtual files when we talk about flat files are different as well. Your parent, you take an exact snapshot of it. But it's really just projecting that NFS mount to another place. So that mount, if you replace those files, or update them of course, then you would be able to refresh and create a new shot of those files. So somebody said "We refresh these files every single night." You would be able to then refresh and project them out to the new place. >> Oh so you're, it's almost like you're sub-classing them... >> Yes. >> Okay, interesting... When you go into a company that's got a big data initiative, where do you fit in the discussion, in the sequence how do you position the value add relative to the data platform that it's sort of the center of the priority of getting it a platform in place? >> Well, that's what's so interesting about this is that we haven't really talked to a lot of big data companies. We've been very relational over a period of time. But our product is very much a Swiss Army knife. It will work on flat files. We've been doing it for multi tier environments forever. It's that our customers are now going "I have 96 petabytes in Oracle. I'm about to move over to big data." so I was able to go out and say we how would I do this in a big data environment? And I found this used case being used by TIME magazine and then created my environment. And did it off of Amazon. But it was just a used case. I was just a proof of concept that I built to show and demonstrate that. Yeah, my guy's back at the office are going "Kellyn when you're done with it, you can just deliver it back to us." (laughing) >> Jeff: Alright Kellyn. Well thank you for taking a few minutes to stop by and pretty interesting story. Everything's getting virtualized machines, databases... >> Soon us! >> And our data. >> Soon George! >> Right, not me George... (George laughs) Alright, thanks again Kellyn >> Thank you so much. >> for stopping by. Alright I'm with George Gilbert. I'm Jeff Frick you're watching theCUBE from Data Platforms 2017 in Phoenix, Arizona. Thanks for watching. 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>> Narrator: Live from The Wigwam in Phoenix, Arizona, it's the CUBE. Covering Data Platforms 2017. Brought to you by Qubole. (techno music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with the CUBE. We are in The Wigwam Resort, historic Wigwam Resort, just outside of Phoenix, Arizona at Data Platforms 2017. It's a new Big Data event. You might say, god there's already a lot of Big Data events, but Qubole's taken a different approach to Big Data. Cloud-first, cloud-native, you're integrated with all the big public clouds and they all come from Big Data backgrounds, practitioner backgrounds. So it's a really cool thing and we're really excited to have our next guest, Colin Ridell, he's a Big Data architect from Epic Games, was up on a panel earlier today. Colin, Welcome. >> Thank you, thank you for having me. >> Absolutely, so, enjoyed your panel, a lot of topics that you guys covered. One of the ones we hear over and over again is get early wins. How do you drive adoption, change people's behaviors, it's not really a technology story. It's a human factors and behaviors story. So I wonder if you can share some of your experience, some best practices, some stories. >> So I don't know if there's really a rule book on best practices for that. Every environment is different, every company is different. But one thing that seems to be constant is resistance to change in a lot of the places, so... >> Jeff: That is consistent. >> We had some challenges when I came in. We were running a system that was on it's last legs basically, and we had to replace it. There was really no choice. There was no fixing it. And so, I did actually encounter a fair bit of resistance with regards to that when I started at Epic. >> Now it's interesting, you said a fair amount of resistance. Another one of your lessons was start slow, find some early wins, but you said, that you were thrown into a big project right off the bat. >> Colin: So, we were, yeah. >> I'm curious, how did the big project go, but when you do start slow, how small does it need to be where you can start to get these wins to break down the resistance. >> I think what we, the way we approached it was we looked at what was the most crucial process, or the most crucial set of processes. And that's where we started. So that was what we tried to convert first and then make that data available to people via an alternative method, which was Hive. And once people started using it and learned how to interact with it properly the barriers start to fall. >> What were some of the difficult change management issues? Where did you come from in terms of the technology platform and what resistance did you hit? >> So it was really a user interface was the main factor of resistance. So we were running a Hadoop cluster. It was fixed sized, it wasn't on PRaM, but it was in a private cloud. It was basically, simply being overloaded. We had to do constant maintenance on it. We had to prop it up. And it was, the performance was degrading and degrading and degrading. The idea behind the replacement was really to give us something that was scalable, that would grow in the future, that wouldn't run into these performance blockers that we were having. But again, like I said, the hardest factor was the user interface differences. People were used to the tool set that they were working with, they liked the way it worked. >> What was the tool set? >> I would rather not actually say that on camera, >> Jeff: That's fine. >> Does it source itself in Redmond or something? >> No, no it doesn't, they're not from Redmond. I just don't want to cast aspersions. >> No, you don't need to cast aspersions. The conflict was really just around familiarity with the tool, it wasn't really about a wholesale change in behavior and becoming more data-centric. >> No, because the tool that we replaced was an effort to become more data-centric to begin with. There definitely was a corporate culture of we want to be more data-informed. So that was not one of the factors that we had to overcome. It was really tool-based. >> But the games market is so competitive, right? You guys have to be on your game all the time and you got to keep an eye on what everybody else is doing in their games, and make course corrections as I understand, something becomes hot, or new, so you guys have to be super nimble on your feet. How does taking this approach help you be more nimble in the way that you guys get new code out, new functionality? >> It's really, really very easy for us now to inject new events into the game, we basically can break those events out and report on them or analyze what's going on in the game for free with the architecture that we have now. >> Does that mean it's the equivalent of, in IT operations, we instrument everything from the applications, to the middleware, down to the hardware. Are you essentially doing the same to the game so you can follow the pathway of a gamer, or the hotspots of all the gamers, that sort of thing? >> I'm not sure I fully understand your question. >> When you're running analytics on a massively multi-player game, what questions are you seeking to answer? >> Really what we are seeking to answer at the moment is what brings people back? What behaviors can we foster in-- >> Engagement. >> in our players. Yeah, engagement, exactly. >> And that's how you measure engagement, it's just as simple as, do they come back or time on game? >> That's the most simple measure that we use for it, yeah. >> So Colin, we're short on time, want to give you the last word. When you come to a conference like this, there's a lot of peer interaction, there's some great questions coming out of the panel, around specifically, how do you measure success? It wasn't technical at all. It's, what are the things that you're using to measure whether stuff is working. I wonder if you can talk to the power of being in an ecosystem of peers here. Any surprises or great insights that you've got. I know we've only been here for a couple days. >> I would say that one of the biggest values, obviously the sessions and the breakouts are great, but I think one of the greatest values of here is simply the networking aspect of it. The being able to speak to people who are facing similar challenges, or doing similar things. Even although they're in a completely different domain, the problems are constant. Or common at least. How do you do machine learning to categorize player behaviors in our case and in other cases it's categorization of feedback that people get from websites, stuff like that. I really think the networking aspect is the most valuable thing to conferences like this. >> Alright, awesome. Well, Colin Ridell, Epic Games, thanks for taking a few minutes to stop by the CUBE. >> You're welcome, more than welcome, thank you very much. >> Absolutely, alright, George Gilbert, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching the CUBE from Data Platforms 2017 at the historic Wigwam Resort. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from the Wigwam in Phoenix, Arizona. It's theCUBE. Covering Data Platforms 2017. Brought to you by Kubo. >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE along with George Gilbert from Wikibon. We've had a tremendous day here at DataPlatforms 2017 at the historic Wigwam Resort, just outside of Phoenix, Arizona. George, you've been to a lot of big data shows. What's your impression? >> I thought we're at the, we're sort of at the edge of what could be a real bridge to something new, which is, we've built big data systems for like out of traditional, as traditional software for deployment on traditional infrastructure. Even if you were going to put it in a virtual machine, it's still not a cloud. You're still dealing with server abstractions. But what's happening with Kubo is, they're saying, once you go to the cloud, whether it's Amazon, Azure, Google or Oracle, you're going to be dealing with services. Services are very different. It greatly simplifies the administrative experience, the developer experience, and more than that, they're focused on, they're focused on turning Kubo, the product on Kubo the service, so that they can automate the management of it. And we know that big data has been choking itself on complexity. Both admin and developer complexity. And they're doing something unique, both on sort of the big data platform management, but also data science operations. And their point, their contention, which we still have to do a little more homework on, is that the vendors who started with software on-prem, can't really make that change very easily without breaking what they've done on-prem. Cuz they have traditional perpetual license physical software as opposed to services, which is what is in the cloud. >> The question is, are people going to wait for them to figure it out. I talked to somebody in the hallway earlier this morning and we were talking about their move to put all their data into, it was S3, on their data lake. And he said, it's part of a much bigger transformational process that we're doing inside the company. And so, this move, from his cloud, public cloud viable, to tell me, give me a reason why it shouldn't go to the cloud, has really kicked in big time. And hear over and over and over that speed and agility, not just in deploying applications, but in operating as a company, is the key to success. And we hear over and over how many, how short the tenure is on the Fortune 500 now, compared to what it used to be. So if you're not speed and agile, which you pretty much have to use cloud, and software driven automated decision-making >> Yeah. >> that's powered by machine learning to eat. >> Those two things. >> A huge percentage of your transaction and decision-making, you're going to get smoked by the person that is. >> Let's let's sort of peel that back. I was talking to Monte Zweben who is the co-founder of Splice Machine, one of the most advance databases that sort of come out of nowhere over the last couple of years. And it's now, I think, in close beta on Amazon. He showed me, like a couple of screens for spinning it up and configuring it on Amazon. And he said, if I were doing that on-prem, he goes I needed Hadoop cluster with HBase. It would take me like four plus months. And that's an example of software versus services. >> Jeff: Right. >> And when you said, when you pointed out that, automated decision-making, powered by machine learning, that's the other part, which is these big data systems ultimately are in the service of creating machine learning models that will inform ever better decisions with ever greater speed and the key then is to plug those models into existing systems of record. >> Jeff: Right. Right. >> Because we're not going to, >> We're not going to to rip those out and rebuild them from scratch. >> Right. But as you just heard, you can pull the data out that you need, run it through a new age application. >> George: Yeah. >> And then feed it back into the old system. >> George: Yes. >> The other thing that came up, it was Oskar, I have to look him up, Oskar Austegard from Gannett was on one of the panels. We always talk about the flexibility to add capacity very easily in a cloud-based solution. But he talked about in the separation of storage and cloud, that they actually have times where they turn off all their compute. It's off. Off. >> And that was If you had to boil down the fundamental compatibility break between on-prem and in the cloud, the Kubo folks, both the CEO and CMO said, look, you cannot reconcile what's essentially server send, where the storage is attached to the compute node, the server. With cloud where you have storage separate from compute and allowing you to spin it down completely. He said those are just the fundamentally incompatible. >> Yeah, yeah. And also, Andretti, one of the founders in his talk, he talked about the big three trends, which we just kind of talked about, he summarized them right in serverless. This continual push towards smaller and smaller units >> George: Yeah. >> of store compute. And the increasing speed of networks is one, from virtual servers to just no servers, to just compute. The second one is automation, you've got to move to automation. >> George: Right. If you're not, you're going to get passed by your competitor that is. Or the competitor you that you don't even know that exists that's going to come out from over your shoulder. And the third one was the intelligence, right. There is a lot of intelligence that can be applied. And I think the other cusp that we're on, is this continuing crazy increase in compute horsepower. Which just keeps going. That the speed and the intelligence of these machines is growing at an exponential curve, not a linear curve. It's going to be bananas in the not too distance future. >> We're soaking up more and more that intelligence with machine learning. The training part of machine learning where the datasets to train a model are immense. Not only the dataset are large, but the amount of time to sort of chug through them to come up with the, just the right mix of variables and values for those variables. Or maybe even multiple models. So that we're going to see in the cloud. And that's going to chew up more and more cycles. Even as we have >> Jeff: Right. Right. >> specialized processors. >> Jeff: Right. But in the data ops world, in theory yes, but I don't have to wait to get it right. Right? I can get it 70% right. >> George: Yeah. >> Which is better than not right. >> George: Yeah. >> And I can continue to iterate over time. In that, I think was the the genius of dev-ops. To stop writing PRDs and MRDs. >> George: Yeah. >> And deliver something. And then listen and adjust. >> George: Yeah. >> And within the data ops world, it's the same thing. Don't try to figure it all out. Take the data you know, have some hypothesis. Build some models and iterate. That's really tough to compete with. >> George: Yeah. >> Fast, fast, fast iteration. >> We're doing actually a fair amount of research on that. On the Wikibon side. Which is, if you build, if you build an enterprise application that has, that is reinforced or informed by models in many different parts, in other words, you're modeling more and more digital entities within the business. >> Jeff: Right. >> Each of those has feedback loops. >> Jeff: Right. Right. >> And when you get the whole thing orchestrated and moving or learning in concert then you have essentially what Michael Porter many years ago called competitive advantage. Which is when each business process reinforces all the other business processes in service of a delivering a value proposition. And those models represent business processes and when they're learning and orchestrated all together, you have a, what Trump called a fined-tuned machine. >> I won't go there. >> Leaving out that it was Bigley and it was finely-tuned machine. >> Yeah, yeah. But the end of the day, if you're using resources and effort to improve an different resource and effort, you're getting a multiplier effect. >> Yes. >> And that's really the key part. Final thought as we go out of here. Are you excited about this? Do you see, they showed the picture the NASA headquarters with the big giant snowball truck loading up? Do you see more and more of this big enterprise data going into S3, going into Google Cloud, going into Microsoft Azure? >> You're asking-- >> Is this the solution for the data lake swamp issue that we've been talking about? >> You're asking the 64 dollar question. Which is, companies, we sensed a year ago at the at the Hortonworks DataWorks Summit in, was in June, down in San Jose last year. That was where we first got the sense that, people were sort of throwing in the towel on trying to build, large scale big data platforms on-prem. And what changes now is, are they now evaluating Hortonworks versus Cloudera versus MapR in the cloud or are they widening their consideration as Kubo suggests. Because now they want to look, not only at Cloud Native Hadoop, but they actually might want to look at Cloud Native Services that aren't necessarily related to Hadoop. >> Right. Right. And we know as a service wins. It's continue. PAS is a service. Software is a service. Time and time again, as a service either eats a lot of share from the incumbent or knocks the incumbent out. So, Hadoop as a service, regardless of your distro, via one of these types of companies on Amazon, it seems like it's got to win, right. It's going to win. >> Yeah but the difference is, so far, so far, the Clouderas and the MapRs and the Hortonworks of the world are more software than service when they're in the cloud. They don't hide all the knobs. You still need You still a highly trained admin to get them up-- >> But not if you buy it as a service, in theory, right. It's going to be packaged up by somebody else and they'll have your knobs all set. >> They're not designed yet that way. >> HD Insight >> Then, then, then, then, They better be careful cuz it might be a new, as a service distro, of the Hadoop system. >> My point, which is what this is. >> Okay, very good, we'll leave it at that. So George, thanks for spending the day with me. Good show as always. >> And I'll be in a better mood next time when you don't steal my candy bars. >> All right. He's George Goodwin. I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE. We're at the historic 99 years young, Wigwam Resort, just outside of Phoenix, Arizona. DataPlatforms 2017. Thanks for watching. It's been a busy season. It'll continue to be a busy season. So keep it tuned. SiliconAngle.TV or YouTube.com/SiliconAngle. Thanks for watching.

>> Live, from The Wigwam, in Phoenix, Arizona, it's theCube, covering Data Platforms 2017. Brought to you by Cue Ball. Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCube. Welcome back to Data Platforms 2017, at the historic Wigwam Resort, just outside of Phoenix, Arizona. I'm here all day with George Gilbert from Wikibon, and we're excited to be joined by our next guest. He's Mick Bass, the CEO of 47Lining. Mick, welcome. >> Welcome, thanks for having me, yes. >> Absolutely. So, what is 47Lining, for people that aren't familiar? >> Well, you know every cloud has a silver lining, and if you look at the periodic table, 47 is the atomic number for silver. So, we are a consulting services company that helps customers build out data platforms and ongoing data processes and data machines in Amazon web services. And, one of the primary use cases that we help customers with is to establish data lakes in Amazon web services to help them answer some of their most valuable business questions. >> So, there's always this question about own vs buy, right, with Cloud and Amazon, specifically. >> Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. >> And, with a data lake, the perception right... That's huge, this giant cost. Clearly that's from benefits that come with putting your data lake in AWS vs having it on Primm. What are some of the things you take customers through, and kind of the scenario planning and the value planning? >> Well, just a couple of the really important aspects, one, is this notion of elastic and on-demand pricing. In a Cloud based data lake, you can start out with actually a very small infrastructure footprint that's focused on maybe just one or two business use cases. You can pay only for the data that you need to get your data leg bootstrapped, and demonstrate the business benefit from one of those use cases. But, then it's very easy to scale that up, in a pay as you go kind of a way. The second, you know, really important benefit that customers experience in a platform that's built on AWS, is the breadth of the tools and capabilities that they can bring to bare for their predictive analytics and descriptive analytics, and streaming kinds of data problems. So, you need Spark, you can have it. You need Hive, you can have it. You need a high performance, close to the metal, data warehouse, on a cluster database, you can have it. So, analysts are really empowered through this approach because they can choose the right tool for the right job, and reduce the time to business benefit, based on what their business owners are asking them for. >> You touched on something really interesting, which was... So, when a customer is on Primm, and let's say is evaluating Cloudera, MaPr, Hortonworks, there's a finite set of services or software components within that distro. Once they're on the Cloud, there's a thousand times more... As you were saying, you could have one of 27 different data warehouse products, you could have many different sequel products, some of which are really delivered as services. >> Mm-hmm >> How does the consideration of the customer's choice change when they go to the Cloud? >> Well, I think that what they find is that it's much more tenable to take an agile, iterative process, where they're trying to align the outgoing cost of the data lake build to keep that in alignment with the business benefits that come from it. And, so if you recognize the need for a particular kind of analytics approach, but you're not going to need that until down the road, two or three quarters from now. It's easy to get started with simple use cases, and then like add those incremental services, as the need manifests. One of the things that I mention in my talk, that I always encourage our customers to keep in mind, is that a data lake is more than just a technology construct. It's not just an analysis set of machinery, it's really a business construct. Your data lake has a profit and loss statement, and the way that you interact with your business owners to identify this specific value sources, that you're going to make pop for you company, can be made to align with the cost footprint, as you build your data lake out. >> So I'm curious, when you're taking customers though the journey to start kind of thinking of the data lake and AWS, are there any specific kind of application spaces, or vertical spaces where you have pretty high confidence that you can secure an early, and relatively easy, win to help them kind of move down the road? >> Absolutely. So, you know, many of our customers, in a very common, you know, business need, is to enhance the set of information that they have available for a 360 degree view of the customer. In many cases, this information and data, it's available in different parts of the enterprises, but it might be siloed. And, a data lake approach in AWS really helps you to pull it together in an agile fashion based on particular, quarter by quarter, objectives or capabilities that you're trying to respond to. Another very common example is predictive analytics for things like fraud detection, or mechanical failure. So, in eCommerce kinds of situations, being able to pull together semi-structured information that might be coming from web servers or logs, or like what cookies are associated with this particular user. It's very easy to pull together a fraud oriented predictive analytic. And, then the third area that is very common is internet of things use cases. Many enterprises are augmenting their existing data warehouse with sensor oriented time series data, and there's really no place in the enterprise for that data currently to land. >> So, when you say they are augmenting the data warehouse, are they putting it in the data warehouse, or they putting it in a sort of adjunct, time series database, from which they can sort of curate aggregates, and things like that to put in the data warehouse? >> It's very much the latter, right. And, the time series data itself may come from multiple different vendors and the input formats, in which that information lands, can be pretty diverse. And so, it's not really a good fit for a typical kind of data warehouse ingest or intake process. >> So, if you were to look at, sort of, maturity models for the different use cases, where would we be, you know, like IOT, Customer 360, fraud, things like that? >> I think, you know, so many customers have pretty rich fraud analytics capabilities, but some of the pain points that we hear is that it's difficult for them to access the most recent technologies. In some cases the order management systems that those analytics are running on are quite old. We just finished some work with a customer where literally the order management system's running on a mainframe, even today. Those systems have the ability to accept steer from like a sidecar decision support predictive analytic system. And, one of the things that's really cool about the Cloud is you could build a custom API just for that fraud analytics use case so that you can inject exactly the right information that makes it super cheap and easy for the ops team, that's running that mainframe, to consume the fraud improvement decision signal that you're offering. >> Interesting. And so, this may be diving into the weeds a little bit, but if you've got an order management system that's decades old and you're going to plug-in something that has to meet some stringent performance requirements, how do you, sort of, test... It's not just the end to end performance once, but you know for the 99th percentile, that someone doesn't get locked out for five minutes while he's to trying to finish his shopping cart. >> Exactly. And I mean, I think this is what is important about the concept of building data machines, in the Cloud. This is not like a once and done kind of process. You're not building an analytic that produces a print out that an executive is going to look at (laughing) and make a decision. (laughing) You're really creating a process that runs at consumer scale, and you're going to apply all of the same kinds of metrics of percentile performance that you would apply at any kind of large scale consumer delivery system. >> Do you custom-build, a fraud prevention application for each customer? Or, is there a template and then some additional capabilities that you'll learn by running through their training data? >> Well, I think largely, there are business by business distinctions in the approach that these customers take to fraud detection. There's also business by business direction distinction in their current state. But, what we find is that the commonalities in the kinds of patterns and approaches that you tend to apply. So, you know... We may have extra data about you based on your behavior on the web, and your behavior on a mobile app. The particulars of that data might be different for Enterprise A vs Enterprise B, but this pattern of joining up mobile data plus web data plus, maybe, phone-in call center data. Putting those all together, to increase the signal that can be made available to a fraud prevention algorithm, that's very common across all enterprises. And so, one of the roles that we play is to set up the platform, so that it's really easy to mobilize each of these data sources. So in many cases, it's the customer's data scientist that's saying, I think I know how to do a better job for my business. I just need to be unleashed to be able to access this data, and if I'm blocked, I need a platform where the answer that I get back is oh, you could have that, like, second quarter of 2019. Instead, you want to say, oh, we can onboard that data in an agile fashion pay, and increment a little bit of money because you've identified a specific benefit that could be made available by having that data. >> Alright Mick, well thanks for stopping by. I'm going to send Andy Jassy a note that we found the silver lining to the Cloud (laughing) So, I'm excited for that, if nothing else, so that made the trip well worth while, so thanks for taking a few minutes. >> You bet, thanks so much, guys. >> Alright Mick Bass, George Gilbert, Jeff Frick, you're watching theCube, from Data Platforms 2017. We'll be right back after this short break. Thanks for watching. (computer techno beat)