(upbeat music) >> Welcome to the BizOps Manifesto Power panel talking about, "Embracing Agility Across the Business." I'm Lisa Martin, there are three guests here with me today, to break down this topic. Pierre Viljoen, CTO at Global Head of Enterprise Technology and Governance at HTL Enterprise Studio. Hey Pierre, welcome. >> Thank you >> Lisa: Dave West is also here, the CEO of Scrum.org. Hey Dave, good to have you with us. >> Hi Lisa, hi everybody. >> Lisa: And Serge Lucio is here as well, the general manager of Broadcom's Enterprise Software Division. Hey Serge, good to have you on the program. >> Thank you, good to be here. >> So we're going to be talking about the people and the process and technology requirements that businesses need to adopt to be able to embrace agility across the business. We're going to also be talking a lot about this inaugural BizOps industry research survey, on the state of digital business. A lot of very interesting findings that we're going to go through in the next 20 minutes or so. So the first question guys is, the BizOps survey found that over 519 individuals over five countries business and technology executives. This survey found, most organizations still expect this year to be as challenging as last year. I want you to kind of walk us through why that is, and how is that going to impact digital transformation initiatives? Pierre, we'll start with you, then Dave, then Serge. >> Sure, thank you Lisa. So, I think these days, disruption is no longer an exception. It's kind of become the norm or the rule, in terms of how we operate. And as executives in companies have learned over the last year, with everything that's happened is that, you can only modernize to a point, and then you need to do a little bit more. And what really is needed is for us to understand, going forward, how we're actually going to remodel our business by harnessing the resources that we have in a much more agile way, in a more fluent way, from an organizational perspective. And I think our current midterm goal, probably, is that we're capable of remodeling how we can remove roadblocks. These kinds of roadblocks in the future, and get us in a better position where we are. I don't expect things to change dramatically over the next year. More in line with us making sure that we're more future proof in the way in which we're working. >> We still have remote workers, global uncertainty, the vaccine. Dave, what are your thoughts on the impact of this year on digital transformation initiatives? >> Yeah, it's funny. When I think of, sort of uncertainty and chaos, I think that COVID really started it rolling down a hill, but unfortunately it's literally like rolling down a hill, these chaos and complexity. It's getting faster and faster and harder and harder. We're talking about the new norm, right? What is the new normal? We just don't know. And I think the reality is that most organizations were surprised by the impact of COVID-19 and because of that, they responded very quickly. Many of them, people were working at home, they're looking at their supply chain, looking at localization, all sorts of really important things happen, but very quickly, not very strategically. I think the next few years we're going to see, hopefully, some of that realizing into strategy and actually starting to fundamentally change how the business is looking at the world. We've sort of entered the digital age, Lisa, this next age of innovation, we have moved out of mass production and the age of oil, into something very, very different. And I think those organizations, every organization out there is going to have to get a handle on that and COVID was the wake up, right? And I think the next five years are going to be very interesting. >> I agree with you that that accelerant was, I didn't think of it before as a big ball rolling downhill. And now I don't think I'm going to be able to get that out of my head. But Serge, talk to us about your thoughts, the impacts to digital transformation initiatives. >> Yeah, I think back to what Dave was describing. The big challenge is the uncertainty. Many organizations are faced with, currently, a lot of unknowns about, if and when things will go back to, quote unquote, some kind of normality. And with that kind of uncertainty, there's a lot of challenges to the planning from an investment point of view. So, Dave was talking about a short-term versus long-term Like, a lot of these organizations are basically focused on just getting by over the next 12 months and trying to figure out what needs to happen over the next 12 months. At the same time, there's a lot of challenges with respect to readiness and uncertainty. And so, in that context, you got kind of this tension between, "How much do I invest short term "on basically tactical initiatives, "How do I care about teams? "How do I enable these teams "to deliver in weeks as opposed to months? "And then at the same time, "how do I continue to invest "to fundamentally change my operating model?" And that tension is very real. Within many of the organizations we serve. >> One of the things that the survey found was that most of the respondents were very willing to embrace being more agile in order to be able to better respond to rapidly changing market conditions. But I want to get your opinion on what that actually really means, that willingness to embrace being agile. What does it really mean? And what do organize organizations have to do differently? Pierre, I'll start with you. >> Sure, I think we had a discussion a while back and Dave actually got into something interesting where he said, without quoting a famous sneaker brand, just go out and do it. I think that's probably the most important part of this. Most organizations are struggling to figure out, "How should we embrace Agile? "Should we jump in at full scale now? "Should we be looking Scrum? "Should we be doing Scrum-Falls? "Should we be falling over our own feet?" Nobody knows exactly, what might be the right sector? I think the most important part is to pick up a pair of solid principles that you're going to embrace, start executing on them, start learning as you go, and basically improve as you move forward. Over the last year, we've embraced digital product management quite a lot on our side. And it's had tremendous benefits without us, per se, aiming for those benefits at the end of the day. And these are things that you learn as you go. And if you're going to wait around, analysis paralysis is going to be the killer of Agile at the end of day >> "Just do it," I like that. Good advice. Dave, what are your thoughts? >> Yeah, so, I think that what's really interesting is, Agile has been around for 20 years. The manifesto was signed 20 years ago. Scrum came into the world 25 years ago. All of these sort of Agile approaches, but they were predominantly focused on technology. And I think that one thing that I've noticed, over and over again, is that the realization by C-level executives, level sevens, or whatever they're called, they've realized that it's not about technology. (chuckles) It's great, the technologies. I guess the technology's always worked in this complex world because customers never knew what they wanted. We didn't know how are we going to do it. We'd never worked together before. We didn't know how much it was going to cost. So, because of that (chuckles) we had to work in an agile way in technology. But ultimately, I think, one of the big differences going forward, is going to be that, there I say that intersection of business and technology, that BizOps kind of model that we talked about in the manifesto, and what the survey was really trying to tease out. I think that's really, really going to be interesting. And I don't know what that actually means, in terms of the execution. I hope it means that we're going to see teams better aligned to business outcomes. I hope it means that we're going to actually allow those teams that are actually know what they're approaching to make decisions. I hope it means that planning is going to be more directional rather than task level. I hope it means that we're going to start measuring the success in terms of business outcomes, not in terms of the work that we do. I hope it means all of these things. But we will wait and see, because experience would indicate that after a big disaster, lots of people tend to go back to exactly how they worked before, with that sort of emus kind of mentality or ostrich or whatever things sticks its head in the ground. I don't know. >> Sometimes we just want to go back to when things were safe and normal. But in terms of kind of following on, Dave, what you said, 94%, in this survey, 94% of respondents said we should adopt BizOps to increase competitiveness. So, that willingness is there in a vast majority of the respondents. So, I'd like to get your thoughts on what that willingness actually means and what they need to do differently. >> Yes. The problem is that, I think everybody understand that you have to be agile, right? You need to be able to respond quickly to your customer needs. You need to put the customer at the center of everything you do, right? So, conceptually, everybody understands that. The problem is really the operating model that many of these large organizations are dealing with to this day, right? So, you have these sort of Berkeley, kind of organized organization, with functional roles, specialized roles. And when you think about kind of generally, well, one of the big challenges is that you need to start to think horizontally, right? You need to start to start to think about what kind of value streams and what part of the cross functional teams that need to be organized and integrated to deliver on specific business outcomes. You need to start shifting from the traditional contract-based model that(indistinct) to a model which is much more based on trust, right? And we need to move away from vanity measurements and KPIs that many of the organizations typically lead by, to really focus on one thing and one thing only, which is that business value has been delivered. So, fundamentally, I think it requires a bit of a redesign of the operating model in these organizations. And one where, especially when you have a risk adversed kind of organizations, you need to start to be more accepting of risk, fundamentally. >> More accepting of risk. You brought something up there starts that I want to tackle in the next question with respect to culture. But one of the things that the survey uncovered was an interesting kind of seeming contradiction. The majority of respondents said, "We agreed, digital transformation "is about business outcomes "more than it is about technology." But 62% said, "We're still adopting technology for technology's sake." What does that actually mean? And what's the kind of cultural impact there for organizations to really get that more aligned on the digital transformation and the technology and the business outcomes? Pierre, we'll start with you. >> Sure. So, I think there were a number of reports this year talking about what's happened, what's not happened, and the majority of them focused on the fact that, as tech leaders, for years we've been praying to the gods to get budget approved to do all kinds of modernization activities to our infrastructure, our IT, tools, et cetera. And, lo and behold, the ball comes rolling down the hill, smashes a few things and we basically get some blank checks. So, we run around and we buy a whole bunch of stuff to modernize and to embrace this ability to do things differently. And in that whole process, what we basically did was buy more tools and buy more technology. And in that whole process, we didn't really embrace what it is that we're trying to achieve. So, basically aligning the technology to the actual business requirements getting closer to the customer, being able to understand where our market's moving, how we're capable of reducing the journey, if I can put it that way, and make sure that we're more aligned to where we need to be. So, although a lot of CIOs and CTOs got away with doing a lot of great stuff over the last year and users like me are like, "Ooh! I don't have to worry "about stupid VPNs and things anymore." That all went away. But in the same instance, I didn't really get anything that changed the organizational dynamic, which is a challenge. We still have the fundamental problems we have because the business leaders are not yet embracing the deep monitor of the processes that are supported by the technology. And then driving that in such a way that we can gain more business value which is important. To Serge's previous point, we're doing all these great things but we're not focusing on the incremental value that we're supposed to be getting. >> Dave, did it surprise you that there was this seemingly contradictory response? Yes, it's more about business outcomes and technology, but we're still adopting technology for technology's sake. What are your thoughts on that? And how can organizations actually start to move the needle on that? >> E-comm by cultural change, right? But you do know that your board and your leadership want you to do something, and the easiest thing you can do is buy something. I'm a sort of now an American, so, that's kind of my mantra in life, right? "When in doubt go shopping." Which is fantastic, just for the record. (Lisa laughs) But so, you've got to be seen to be doing something, whether it's replacing a VPN, which is always a fun thing to do, or whether it's getting on Slack. Everyone's going to be on Slack. that's going to help. But actually the core is that, exactly what Serge and Pierre have been saying all along, it's that, "Okay. So what is our business all about? "What are our customers? "what did they actually need? "What do our employees need? "How do we build a better value stream "from customer to the organization? "How do we align our teams to that? "How do we incentivize correctly "both the employees that are working "and our partners that are providing things "in this supply chain. How do we do all of those things?" Ultimately though, that means that we have to take a step back which is a very frustrating thing at the moment. And actually look at what is our business all about? What is the mission of it? Who are the customers? Take a moment to find what those are. And then, soon as we have that, and we don't have to do it. As Pierre said, we don't have to do it completely. We can do it incrementally. Organizations are very inward looking. That is the industrial mindset. That is that paradigm. It's looking, as Serge talked about, silos, "optimizing my department," "optimizing my budget, optimizing my kingdom." And what we're talking about is something that cross cuts all of that. So, the decision making is going to change around where the investments go and that's going to be really, really challenging. So, I'm not surprised, I'm not at all surprised that everybody says we should be doing this. And it's like classic. Everybody says we need to be fitter, but we're still all not fit. (Serge laughs) It's sort of, that's just the reality of the world that we live in, right? But we have to start making a stand. And the place we begin is customers. That's the place. And as soon as we start doing that, then everything else just becomes quite easy, actually. >> I like that. Focus on customers and it becomes easy. Serve, I'm kidding. What are your thoughts on this? >> Yeah, I think Dave summarized it well. It's very easy to just buy a tool or buy something, right? Fundamentally changing kind of an operating model is very difficult, but you need to fundamentally rethink for instance, all the responding initiatives. So, something as mundane as, You know, as a leader in my organization I have a budget, right? What's my incentive of collaborating with my peers in terms of delivering credible analysis form. And so, that to me kind of a fundamental shift that we need to operate, and that's probably one of the reasons why many of our largest organizations that we're serving are starting to introduce some new roles like a Chief Digital Officer, as kind of a way to kind of bring kind of a slightly different organization design. The challenge, though, is that, well, all of these teams are still kind of integrated with this fabric of these large systems which exist. So when we look at these value streams, in fact they're not independent from one another. You have a bunch of interdependencies. You are looking at kind of networks of these value streams. But the fundamental shift that we need to see is what we want these organizations to think about, ultimately with the part of the products or services that need to be focused on, all of these become kind of the primary things that we measure from point of view, and how do we align teams and projects and funding along these kinds of outcomes? >> So being customer focused, also being more broadly focused you mentioned the Chief Digital Officer role, which has an interesting role. It's supposed to look more, holistically, internally and externally. And we know that these organizations know we need to be better at this. like Dave's joke about we know we need to be more fit. But what's it going to take to actually create that collaboration, so that IT and business leaders are really working in lockstep and doing so in a timely fashion, so, that they're able to stay competitive. I do want to know from each of you, are you seeing examples of this already in progress? Pierre, let's start with you. >> I can only give you another example and say, one of the interesting things that we did was we try to embrace the delivery of services at HR in kind of a different frame this year, and kind of productize the services that we deliver. Now, if you're most people, you're trying to think about, "How do I set up things like communities "of practice and collaboration between people so "that they can work together on developing new services "new features, new products, et cetera." And we set out with creating this agile way of working. What we didn't anticipate, which was a very nice side effect, is that, because of COVID, because of the catalyst that it provided us, the remote working, people sense of ownership is inherently there. Meaning that self-organization of teams started happening. Nobody needed to crack a whip to get a bunch of guys to talk together with one another to figure out how to get stuff done. It's not like you could walk over to the water cooler and have a chat to Bob. Bob is a thousand miles away, or Bobby's sitting in another State. So, all of a sudden, all dynamic changed. And I have to say, people are a lot more resilient than what they're being given credit for. And if, as organizations, we embrace the culture in such a way and harness it in a positive way, we can actually get this movement to happen. And we actually can make the sum of the parts to be more than the whole. And this year we've seen that happen. And by no means, are we done 'cause we still have a lot of work to do, like Serge said, we have budgets, and budgets give you finite amount of movement left or right. Then you have to do what's best and possible within the frame that you're given. But I think embracing the cultural change and helping people to really excel at that and empowering them makes a huge difference in the way that you can get stuff done. >> Absolutely. Dave, what are your thoughts on this? >> I'm going to say something a little bit controversial, I think. I'm not a big fan of Chief Digital Officers. It just seems like we've got a problem. And some would argue that, "Well, if you've got a problem with somebody "you should get a coach" and all this stuff "and you get it sorted." And that's probably a good thing. But most digital officers, they're going to build a long-term career and create yet another stove pipe and that stove pipe's responsible for bringing all the other stove pipes together. It sounds a bit odd. If a digital officer is really there as a short term enabler, 'cause you asked IT and business leaders, trying to get them to work together better. The best business leaders (bell dings) know about IT, right? The best business leaders are IT sanctuary. Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos are great business leaders, but they know about technology, right? That's what brings them together. Technology is an asset and they may not be the most biggest expert in it, but they care deeply about learning about that stuff. So, I think the next few years we're going to see a lot of C-level and leaders in organizations become a lot more tech savvy, and maybe hire coaches to help them navigate. And the Chief Digital Officer will become more of a coach rather than a person that rolls out Slack or something, you know? (Pierre laughs) So, I think that is going to be the next big jump, really, when we realize that you don't get an additional thing. It's just part of what you do. >> Serge, agree, disagree? >> I agree. The reality is that it is happening, right? Don't get me wrong. We see that every day that so many States are highly integrated, organizations and teams are measuring business value, business outcomes. The problem is that it's oftentimes a very small subset of what these organizations are doing. And so, it's almost like the CEO is coming as kind of these new kind of, as Dave described. And it's got this new style organization which is really there to kind of scale what has been working with these organizations, but we're kind of creating this kind of almost shadow organization, as opposed to fundamentally rethinking and redesigning the organization and redesigning kind of the operating model. And so, we're kind of layering new stuff as opposed to fundamentally transforming. So, as long as it is just kind of just a step towards kind of a true transformation, I think that's fine. The challenge is to, again, create kind of a new set of silos, which are now called value streams, as opposed to young functional silos that we have today. >> So a lot of opportunities identified in this survey but there are still a lot of challenges there. So, I'd love to get you guys and our final question here in this panel to help us understand, from the BizOps coalition's perspective, how are you helping organizations to navigate these challenges, so, they can become successful, transform and actually become agile to respond to rapidly changing market conditions? Pierre, kick us off. >> Sure, from a coalition perspective, we're just trying to make sure that there's a set of sensible principles. That people can look at, can adopt that I think Dave mentioned it in another discussion, that give you that clarity of thought and mind in terms of what should you be thinking? How should you be thinking about it? What are the various aspects you need to consider? And then from that perspective, how do you implement these things in a sensible way for your organization? By no means is this this like, "Here are the 10 steps, you do them, and you're done." You'll be rich beyond your wildest dreams. It's not how it work. You're still going to have to work at it. You're still going to have to figure some stuff out. You're going to have to deep in yourself in your organizational policies, procedures, understand how the organization is actually working. You can't strap a V8 to Mini Cooper and expect to break the land speed record, without the wheels falling off, or something going wrong. So, you really need to harness that in a more sensible manner to move forward. And I think the coalition is on the right path to help organizations realize, "what is the sensible way to go?" "What are principles we can adopt "that we can abide by that will help us drive business "in a different way and close this chasm of disparity "between business and IT?" >> And Dave, your perspective on the BizOps coalition, helping organizations to sort through these challenges. >> Yeah. I'm going to share a little bit of a personal story. So, I must admit that I wasn't keen on the whole idea, and Serge sent me some stuff and he's like, "Could you just provide some feedback." And I did, and then there was a press release with my name on it. I saw, I was like, "Oh my God! "I better get involved because I don't want to "have my name associated "with something that doesn't make sense" But I've actually been surprisingly, I've actually found it a lot more positive than I thought because of exactly what Pierre's saying. So, basically, the coalition is a group of vendors, a bucolic of consultants, some pseudo thought leaders that think they are very thoughtful and maybe they're not, people like me. (Pierre laughs) And what we're doing though, is actually trying to get some clarity of terminology, get some clarity of, what are the principles? What are those key principles? How do they relate to each other? Get some, some synergy to allow, 'cause there's so much noise out there. And hopefully, this is going to say, "Okay, this is what BizOps is. "This is why it's important. "These are some simple things." And then hopefully, because of the breadth that Serge and others have managed to get in terms of membership, we're going to get all of those organizations to be consistently talking about these things, which will then create pressure on the market to actually start adopting these things in the way that we're proposing, or challenge those ideas and then make them better. So, I'm kind of excited about it, surprisingly, 'cause the last thing we need is yet another manifesto and group of people that spend their whole time talking about things and never getting anything done. But actually I think there might be some valuable stuff that comes out here and we're going to inspect and adapt to make sure it is valuable. And if it isn't, we will stop. (chuckles) (Lisa laughs) >> And Serge, strap us up with your thoughts and extending that value. >> Look, we started the BizOps manifesto really with kind of a very simple observation. Everybody's talking about the same stuff, right? But you have a value stream management church, the digital product management's church, the DevOps church, with Scrum church, the safe church. Right? But we're all saying the same thing. But we create so much confusion with our large enterprise customers, but it's just not a grain on a set of principles. And just saying like, look, fundamentally, we're all talking about the same thing. And there are process aspects, there are cultural aspects. There is what you measure. But fundamentally we agree on the same core set of principles. And so for me, the BizOps manifesto, first and foremost is to get the stakeholders from these different communities together, and recognize that, at the end of the day, we share the same values and create some clarity to the market as to how these pieces fit to one another. The second aspect, which is more from our point of view, as one of the vendors of tools, right? There's tons of tools out there. We talk a lot about kind of measuring business outcomes as a primary way to actually align to everybody in our organization. Well, today if you look at any of these organizations, on average, they use about 40 different tools on one of these value streams. None of that stuff integrates with one another. It's extremely difficult for an organization to be able to trace from an investment, all the way to stuff that delivers value and production to a customer. And so, one of my hopes for the coalition is that we start to actually provide some platform, data models, ontologies, to start to integrate those different tools to facilitate that kind of integration. So, those are kind of the two things which I think we can really help kind of develop and and improve on. >> Well, we know that there's a tremendous amount of folks out there that are wanting to embrace agility across the business, identifying areas where they need to do work. So, great advice from the three of you. Thank you so much for joining me on this power panel today and sharing what organizations can do to really embrace that agility across the organization. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Pierre Viljoen, Dave West and Serge Lucio. I'm Lisa Martin. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to this BizOps Manifesto Power Panel, Data Lake or Data Landfill. We're going to be talking about that today. I've got three guests joining me. We're going to dive through that. Kieran Taylor is here the CMO of Broadcom's Enterprise Software Division. Kieran, great to have you on the program. >> Thank you, Lisa. >> Kevin Surace is here as well. Chairman and CTO of Appvance, hey Kevin. >> Hey Lisa. >> And Isaac Sacolick Author and CEO of StarCIO. Isaac, welcome. >> Hi Lisa, thanks for having me. >> So we're going to spend the next 25 to 30 minutes talking about the challenges and the opportunities that data brings to organizations. You guys are going to share some of your best practices for how organizations can actually sort through all this data to make data-driven decisions. We're also going to be citing some statistics from the Inaugural BizOps Industry Survey of the State of Digital Business in which 519 business and technology folks were surveyed across five nations. Let's go ahead and jump right in and the first one in that server that I just mentioned 97% of organizations say we've got data related challenges, limiting the amount of information that we actually have available to the business. Big conundrum there. How do organizations get out of that conundrum? Kieran, we're going to start with you. >> Thanks Lisa. You know, I think, I don't know if it's so much limiting information as it is limiting answers. There's no real shortage of data I don't think being captured, recently met with a unnamed auto manufacturer Who's collecting petabytes of data from their connected cars and they're doing that because they don't really yet know what questions they have of the data. So I think you get out of this Data Landfill conundrum by first understanding what questions to ask. It's not algorithms, it's not analytics. It's not, you know, math that's going to solve this problem. It's really, really understanding your customer's issues and what questions to ask of the data >> Understanding what questions to ask of the data. Kevin, what are your thoughts? >> Yeah, look, I think it gets down to what questions you want to ask and what you want out of it, right? So there's questions you want to ask but what are the business outcomes you're looking for, which is the core of BizOps anyway, right? What are the business outcomes and what business outcomes can I act upon? So there are so many business outcomes you can get from data and you go, well, I can't legally act upon that. I can't practically act upon that. I can't, whether it's lay off people or hire people or whatever it is, right? So what are the actionable items? There is plenty of data. We would argue too much data. Now we could say, is the data good? Is the data bad? Is it poorly organized? Is it, noisy? There's all other problems, right? There's plenty of data. What do I do with it? What can I do that's actionable? If I was an automaker and I had lots of sensors on the road, I had petabytes, as Kieran says and I'd probably bringing in petabytes potentially every day. Well, I could make myself driving systems better. That's an obvious place to start or that's what I would do but I could also potentially use that to change people's insurance and say, if you drive in a certain way something we've never been able to do. If you drive in a certain way, based on the sensors you get a lower insurance rate, then nobody's done that. But now there's interesting business opportunities for that data that you didn't have one minute ago and I just gave away. So, (laughs) it's all about the actionable items in the data. How do you drive something to the top line and the bottom line? 'Cause in the end, that's how we're all measured. >> And Isaac, I know you say data is the lifeblood. What are your thoughts on this conundrum? >> Well, I think, you know, they gave you the start and the end of the equation, start with a question. What are you really trying to answer? What you don't understand that you want to learn about your business connect it to an outcome that is valuable to you. And really what most organizations struggle with is a process that goes through discovery, learning what's in the data, addressing data, quality issues, loading new data sources if required and really doing that iteratively and we're all agile people here at BizOps, right? So doing it iteratively, getting some answers out and understanding what the issues are with the underlying data and then going back and revisiting and reprioritizing what you want to do next. Do you want to go look at another question? Is the answer heading down a path that you can drive outcomes? Do you got to go cleanse some data? So it's really that, how do you put it together so that you can peel the onion back and start looking at data and getting insights out of it. >> Great advice, another challenge though, that the survey identified was that nearly 70% of the respondents and again, 519 business and technology professionals from five countries said, we are struggling to create business metrics from our data with so much data, so much that we can't access. Can you guys share best practices for how organizations would sort through and identify the best data sources from which they can identify the ideal business metrics? Kieran, take it away. >> Sure thing, I guess I'll build on Isaac's statements. Every company has some gap in data, right? And so when you do that, that data gap analysis I think you really, I don't know. It's like Alice in Wonderland, begin at the beginning, right? You start with that question like Isaac said, And I think the best questions are really born from an understanding of what your customers value. And if you dig into that, you understand what the customers value, you build it off of actual customer feedback, market research then you know what questions to ask and then from that, hey, what inputs do I need to really understand how to solve that particular business issue or problem. >> Kevin, what are your thoughts? >> Yeah, I'm going to add to that, completely agree but, look, let's start with sales data, right? So sales data is something, everybody watching this understands, even if they're not in sales, they go well, okay, I understand sales data. What's interesting there is we know who our customers are. We could probably figure out if we have enough data, why they buy, are they buying because of a certain sales person? Are they buying because it's a certain region? Are they buying because of some demographic that we don't understand, but AI can pull out, right? So I would like to know, who's buying and why they're buying. Because if I know that I might make more of what more of those people want whatever that is, certain fundamental sales changes or product changes or whatever it is. So if you could certainly start there, if you start nowhere else, say I sell X today. I'd like to sell X times 1.2 by next year. Okay, great. Can I learn from the last five years of sales, millions of units or million or whatever it is, how to do that better and the answer is for sure yes and yes there's problems with the data and there's holes in the data as Kieran said and there's missing data. It doesn't matter, there's a lot of data around sales. So you can just start there and probably drive some top line growth, just doing what you're already doing but doing it better and learning how to do it better. >> Learning how to do it better. Isaac, talk to us about what your thoughts are here with respect to this challenge. >> Well, when you look at that percentage 70% struggling with business metrics, you know what I see is some companies struggling when they have too few metrics and you know, their KPIs, it really doesn't translate well to people doing work for a customer for an application, responding to an issue. So when you have too few in there too disconnected from the work, people don't understand how to use them and then on the flip side I see other organizations trying to create metrics around every single part of the operation, you know, dozens of different ways of measuring user experience and so forth. And that doesn't work because now we don't know what to prioritize. So I think the art of this is management coming back and saying, what are the metrics? Do we want to see impact and changes over in a short amount of time, over the next quarter, over the next six months and to pick a couple in each category, certainly starting with the customer, certainly looking at sales but then also looking at operations and looking at quality and looking at risk and say to the organization, these are the two or three we're going to focus on in the next six months and then I think that's what simplifies it for organizations. >> Thanks, Isaac. So something that I found interesting, it's not surprising in that the survey found that too much data is one of the biggest challenges that organizations have followed by the limitations that we just talked about in terms of identifying what are the ideal business metrics, but a whopping 74% of survey respondents said we failed to have key data available in real time, which is a big inhibitor for data-driven decision-making. Can you guys offer some advice to organizations? How can they harness this data and glean insights from it faster, Kieran, take it away. >> Yeah, I think there are probably five steps to establishing business KPIs and Lisa your first two questions and these gentleman's answers laid out the first two that is define the questions that you want answers for and then identify what those data inputs would be. You know, if you've got a formula in mind, what data inputs do do you need? The remaining three steps. One is, you know, to evaluate the data you've got and then identify what's missing, you know what do you need to then fetch? And then that fetching, you need to think about the measurement method, the frequency I think Isaac mentioned, you know this concept of tools for all. We have too many tools to collect data. So, the measurement method and frequency is important standardizing on tools and automating that collection wherever possible. And then the last step, this is really the people component of the formula. You need to identify stakeholders that will own those business KPIs and even communicate them within the organization. That human element is sometimes forgotten and it's really important. >> It is important, it's one of the challenges as well. Kevin, talk to us about your thoughts here. >> Yeah, again I mean, for sure you've got in the end you've got the human element. You can give people all kinds of KPIs as Isaac said, often it's too many. You have now KPI the business to death and nobody can get out and do anything that doesn't work. Obviously you can't improve things until you measure them. So you have to measure, we get that. But this question of live data is interesting. My personal view is only certain kinds of data are interesting, absolutely live in the moment. So I think people get in their mind, oh, well if I could deploy IOT everywhere and get instantaneous access within one second to the amalgam of that data, I'm making up words too. That would be interesting. Are you sure that'd be interesting? I might rather analyze the last week of real, real data, really deep analysis, right? Build you know, a real model around that and say, okay for the next week, you ought to do the following. Now I get that if you're in the high-frequency stock trading business you know, every millisecond counts, okay? But most of our businesses do not run by the millisecond and we're not going to make a business decision especially humans involved in a millisecond anyway. We make business decisions based on a fair bit of data, days and weeks. So this is just my own personal opinion. I think people get hung up on this. I've got to have all this live data. No, you want great data analysis using AI and machine learning to evaluate as much data as you can get over whatever period of time that is a week, a month a year and start making some rational decisions off of that information. I think that is how you run a business that's going to crush your competition. >> Good advice, Isaac what are your thoughts on these comments? >> Yeah, I'm going to pair off of Kevin's comments. You know, how do you chip away at this problem at getting more real time data? And I'll share two insights first, from the top down, you know, when StarCIO works with a group of CEO and their executive group, you know how are they getting their data? Well, they're getting it in a boardroom with PowerPoints with spreadsheets behind those PowerPoints, with analysts doing a lot of number crunching and behind all that are all the systems of record around the CRM and the ERP and all the other systems that are telling them how they're performing. And I suggest to them for a month, leave the world of PowerPoint and Excel and bring your analysts in to show you the data live in the systems, ask questions and see what it's like to work with real time data. That first changes the perspective in terms of all the manual work that goes into homogenizing that data for them. But then they start getting used to looking at the tools where the data is actually living. So that's an exercise from the top down from the bottom up when we talk to the it groups, you know so much of our data technologies were built at a time when batch processing in our data centers was the only way to go. We ran these things overnight to move data from point a to point B and with the Cloud, with data streaming technologies it's really a new game in town. And so it's really time for many organizations to modernize and thinking about how they're streaming data. Doesn't necessarily have to be real time. It's not really IOT but it's really saying, I need to have my data updated on a regular basis with an SLA against it so that my teams and my businesses can make good decisions around things. >> So let's talk now about digital transformation. We've been talking about that for years. We talked a lot about in 2020, the acceleration of digital transformation for obvious reasons. But when organizations are facing this data conundrum that we talked about, this sort of data disconnect too much can't get what we need right away. Do we need it right away? How did they flip the script on that so that it doesn't become an impediment to digital transformation but it becomes an accelerant. Kieran >> You know, a lot of times you'll hear vendors talk about technology as being the answer, right? So MI, ML, my math is better than your math, et cetera. And technology is important but it's only effective to the point that which people can actually interpret understand and use the data. And so I would put forth this notion of having data at all levels throughout an organization too often. What you'll see is that I think Isaac mentioned it, you know the data is delivered to the C-suite via PowerPoint and it's been sanitized and scrubbed, et cetera. But heck, by the time it gets to the C-suite it's three weeks old. Data at all levels is making sure that throughout organization, the right people have real-time access to data and can make actionable decisions based upon that. So I think that's a real vital ingredient to successful digital transformation. >> Kevin. >> Well, I like to think of digital transformation as looking at all of your relatively manual or paper-based or other processes whatever they are throughout the organization and saying is this something that can now be done for lack of a better word by a machine, right? And that machine could be algorithms. It could be computers, it could be humans it could be Cloud, it could be AI it could be IOT doesn't really matter. (clears throat) And so there's a reason to do that and of course, the basis of that is the data. You've got to collect data to say, this is how we've been performing. This is what we've been doing. So an example, a simple example of digitalization is people doing RPA around customer support. Now you collect a lot of data on how customer support has been supporting customers. You break that into tiers and you say, here's the easiest, lowest tier. I had farmed that out to probably some other country 20 years ago or 10 years ago. Can I even with the systems in place, can I automate that with a set of processes, Robotic Process Automation that digitizes that process now, Now there still might be, you know 20 different screens that click on all different kinds of things, whatever it is, but can I do that? Can I do it with some Chatbots? Can I do it with it? No, I'm not going to do all the customer support that way but I could probably do a fair bit. Can I digitize that process? Can I digitize the process? Great example we all know is insurance companies taking claims. Okay, I have a phone. Can, I take a picture of my car that just got smashed send it in, let AI analyze it and frankly, do an ACH transfer within the hour, because if it costs them insurance company on average 300 to $500 depending on who they are to process a claim, it's cheaper to just send me the $500 then even question it. And if I did it two or three times, well then I'm trying to steal their money and I should go to jail, right? So these are just, I'm giving these as examples 'cause they're examples that everyone who is watching this would go, oh I understand you're digitizing a process. So now when we get to much more complex processes that we're digitizing in data or hiring or whatever, those are a little harder to understand but I just tried to give those as like everyone understands yes, you should digitize those. Those are obvious, right? >> Now those are great examples, you're right. They're relatable across the board here. Isaac, talk to me about what your thoughts are about. Okay, let's do the conundrum. How do we flip the script and leverage data, access to it insights to drive and facilitate digital transformation rather than impede it. >> Well remember, you know, digital transformation is really about changing the business model, changing how you're working with customers and what markets you're going after. You're being forced to do that because of the pace digital technologies are enabling competitors to outpace you. And so we really like starting digital transformations with a vision. What does this business need to do better, differently more of what markets are we going to go after? What types of technologies are important? And we're going to create that vision but we know long-term planning, doesn't work. We know multi-year planning, doesn't work. So we're going to send our teams out on an agile journey over the next sprint, over the next quarter and we're going to use data to give us information about whether we're heading in the right direction. Should we do more of something? Is this feature higher priority? Is there a certain customer segment that we need to pay attention to more? Is there a set of defects happening in our technology that we have to address? Is there a new competitor stealing market share all that kind of data is what the organization needs to be looking at on a very regular basis to say, do we need to pivot, what we're doing? Do we need to accelerate something? Are we heading in the right direction? Should we give ourselves high fives and celebrate a quick win? Because we've accomplished something 'cause so much of transformation is what we're doing today. We're going to change what we're doing over the next three years, and then guess what? There's going to be a new set of technologies. There's going to be another disruption that we can't anticipate and we want our teams sitting on their toes waiting to look at data and saying, what should we do next? >> That's a great segue Isaac into our last question, which is around culture that's always one of those elephants in the room, right? Because so much cultural transformation is necessary but it's incredibly difficult. So question for you guys, Kieran we'll start with you is, should you advise leadership, should really create a culture, a company-wide culture around data? What do you think? >> Absolutely. I mean, this reminds me of DevOps in many ways and you know, the data has to be shared at all levels and has to empower people to make decisions at their respective levels so that we're not, you know kind of siloed in our knowledge or our decision-making, it's through that collective intelligence that I think organizations can move forward more quickly but they do have to change the culture and they've got to have everyone in the room. Everyone's got a stake in driving business success from the C-suite down to the individual contributor >> Right, Kevin, your thoughts >> You know what? Kieran's right. Data silos, one of the biggest brick walls in all of our way, all the time, you know SecOps says there is no way I'm going to share that database because it's got PII. Okay, well, how about if we strip the PII? Well, then that won't be good for something else and you're getting these huge arguments and if you're not driving it from the top, certainly the CIO, maybe the CFO, maybe the CEO I would argue the CEO, drives it from the top. 'Cause the CEO drives company culture and you know, we talk BizOps and the first word of that is Biz. It's the business, right? It's Ops being driven by business goals and the CEO has to set the business goals. It's not really up to the CIO to set business goals. They're setting operational goals, it's up to the CEO. So when the CEO comes out and says our business goals are to drive up sales by this drive down cost by this drive up speed of product development, whatever it is and we're going to digitize all of our processes to do that. We're going to set in KPIs. We're going to measure everything that we do and everybody's going to work around this table. By the way just like we did with DevOps a decade ago, right? And said, Dev, you actually have to work with Ops now and they go, those dangerous guys way over in that other building, we don't even know who they are but in time people realize that we're all on the same team and that if developers develop something that operations can't host and support and keep alive, it's junk right? And we used to do that and now we're much better at it. And whether it's Dev, SecOps or Dev two-way Ops, whatever all those teams working together. Now we're going to spread that out and make it a bigger pyre on the company and it starts with the CEO. And when the CEO makes it a directive for the company I think we're all going to be successful. >> Isaac, what are your thoughts? >> I think we're really talking about a culture of transformation and a culture of collaboration. I mean, again, everything that we're doing now we're going to build, we're going to learn. We're going to use data to pivot what we're doing. We're going to release a product to customers. We're going to get feedback. We're going to continue to iterate over those things. Same thing when it comes to sales, same things that you know, the experiments that we do for marketing, what we're doing today, we're constantly learning. We're constantly challenging our assumptions. We're trying to throw out the sacred cows with status quo, 'cause we know there's going to be another Island that we have to go after and that's the transformation part. The collaboration part is really you know, what you're hearing. Multiple teams, not just Dev and Ops and not just data and Dev, but really the spectrum of business of product, of stakeholders, of marketing and sales, working with technologists and saying, look this is the things that we need to go after over these time periods and work collaboratively and iteratively around them. And again, the data is the foundation for this, right? And we talk about a learning culture as part of that, the data is a big part of that learning, learning new skills and what new skills to learn is as part of that. But when I think about culture, you know the things that slow down organizations is when they're not transforming fast enough, or they're going in five or six different directions, they're not collaborative enough and the data is the element in there that is an equalizer. It's what you show everybody to say, look what we're doing today is not going to make us survive over the next three years. >> The data equalizer, that sounds like it could be movie coming out in 2021. (laughing) Gentlemen, thank you for walking us through some of those interesting metrics coming out of the BizOps Inaugural Survey. Yes, there are challenges with data. Many of them aren't surprising but there's also a lot of tremendous opportunity and I liked how you kind of brought it around to from a cultural perspective. It's got to start from that C-suite to Kieran's point all the way down. I know we could keep talking, we're out of time, but we'll have to keep following, this as a very interesting topic. One that is certainly pervasive across industries. Thanks guys for sharing your insights. >> Than you. >> Thank you, Lisa. >> Thank you, Lisa. >> For Kieran Taylor, Kevin Surace and Isaac Sacolick. I'm Lisa Martin. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(bright upbeat music) >> Welcome back. Lisa Martin here talking with Laureen Knudsen, a CUBE alumni. She's the Chief Transformation Officer at Broadcom and a founding member of the BizOps Coalition. Laureen, I'm excited to talk to you about an interesting topic today. Welcome back to the program. >> Thank you so much. Glad to be here. >> So we're going to be, yeah, we're going to be talking about the pros and cons of adding a Chief Digital Officer. You say, there may be some friction there, but it's going to be temporary as the benefits will be long lasting. So let's dive right in. Talk to me about what the role of a Chief Digital Officer is. Is this something that a CIO can take on? >> In some organizations, I think the CIO is taking on this role. And it's primarily focusing on what we're calling the digitization of the organization. So it's across more than just IT though. So it's looking at what kind of digital marketing should you be doing? What are your competitors doing? How can you make the most bang for your buck essentially across your entire organization? So it also includes parts that generally haven't been included in digital transformations, like your legal team or your finance team and the interactions with them. Can your contracts be digitized? Can they be made more efficient and more automated, right? So it's looking at the entire organization both internally and externally and looking at the strategy for how do you accomplish that and how do you truly make your organization as effective as it can be. >> Is this person almost like a bridge between the different lines of business and IT to get that external, internal focus? >> Yes, yeah, many people in IT don't have that business knowledge. That's a really good point. And so this person will need to have not only business knowledge but technical knowledge so they can essentially translate, right, the verbiage that is used in the different organizations and the jargon that's used to make it, to make the understanding between the two of what's needed more smooth, you know, the communication more smooth within the organization. Also focusing on customer value and making sure that, that both sides are saying the same, you know, when they use the same words, they're saying the same things. So doing that translation in that organization, across the entire company. >> Looking at it from the holistic perspective, you know, I know that the BizOps Coalition survey also showed that something that we hear that digital transformation isn't just about the technology. It's got to be all of the factors coming together aligned on business outcomes, aligned on what's the impact and the value to the customer. How is the Chief Digital Officer role going to facilitate that, not just understanding, but putting in practice that digital transformation is not just about technology? >> Well, and again, 95% of companies are confirming that, that right now they're focusing much more on business outcomes than just on technology. And so, there really is that need to, you know, what does that mean, right? When you're focusing on business outcomes, it often includes a lot of technology, but it's, you know, there's a different path to take to make sure that you're focusing on your customer outcomes. There's a lot of organizations that are looking at their apps and realizing their customers find the most value when they never have to use them. So how do you accomplish that, right? That's not adding new features in, that's not doing something new for the customer other than making it, making sure everything runs so smoothly that they never have to access your app. You know, we're running into that with a lot of business organizations like insurance companies or banking, phone, you know, telco companies, things like that where people really don't want to use the products you're creating for them if they don't have to. >> Right, adoption is always something that we talk about that can be a KPI but also a challenge. One of the things that I noticed that information that, that Broadcom provided was that Gartner says, in the next 12 months, 67% of organizations are going to be looking at hiring a Chief Digital Officer. Let's have you talk us through what are some of the forcing functions behind that? Obviously the last year has been quite, filled with quite a bit of uncertainty but we look back a couple of decades, there wasn't talk of a Chief Digital Officer. So, why this, why is there such a big uptick in the need for this role? >> Well, it's interesting 'cause Gartner originally talked about the Chief Digital Officer in about 2010 to 2012 timeframe where they were talking about the need for it. And it was a lot of, I think fast moving companies and the companies that really have made a lot of advancements in their effectiveness and their customer centricity have really grabbed onto this concept whether they've called it a Chief Digital Officer or not, but in the last year, it's forced everyone to have a digital footprint in the market. If you'll notice even your local restaurants that are family owned now have some sort of way to order their food digitally, right? So we're digitizing the entire thing and COVID is really, required every company to look at much more how they can do things electronically, any type of, you know, digitization whether it's like I've said before the marketing, or even how do you handle all of your contracts when there's no in-person signature and no, you know, fax machines to send things back and forth, right? It's all about making sure that all of that's secure and protected. So it's going across the entire organization. And that's really creating that need for somebody to be able to look at how your company can do all of those different things. Because quite frankly, the CIO already has a day job, right? Your Chief Marketing Officer already has a day job. So trying to look at how to be really innovative in these areas creates a gap, right? And people aren't finding that extra time to be able to do that and to look at how to be really streamlining their organizations and taking that innovation in with both internal and external viewpoints. >> Well, it'd be, imagine you mentioned, you know, the CIO, the CMO, the CFO having day jobs, but also one of the things it sounds to me like is important for this CDO role is to have objectivity. To be able to rise above all the different functions, the different technology stocks and probably silos that are there and really look holistically across the organization. So talk to me about some of the skills that are really required from the Chief Digital Officer. Is this someone that needs to have both an IT background and a business background, does it matter? >> I think as long as they have the knowledge of either side, that where they came from, isn't going to matter but you're going to, the problem is going to be finding the people with those dual skill sets, right? Because you're going to need somebody that can understand your business and your technology side to marry the two together. But they're also going to need to understand all the intricacies of the legal aspects that need to go into creating your products or the financial aspects of tracking what happens with your products. So they're really going to need to be not only very well educated and have a lot of experience, but the other thing they're going to need is that emotional empathy and that ability to work with everybody in the organization. Essentially if they do their job right, they'll be coming in and working with every other Vice President or chief in your organization. So there'll be helping to influence all of those people. And that can create a lot of conflict at first because you're having somebody else come in to give the CIO insights into how they can innovate technologically or to give the Chief Marketing Officer information on new ways that they can do their jobs, that they can digitize the marketing to be more effective and the right frame of mind to be able to do that. You know, hiring is going to be another place where these people will have a large imprint because they're going to need the knowledge to be able to interview all across the board for people that can help them get these new innovations into place. For example, if marketing needs to expand into more of a digital footprint to actually get the, the imprints that they need, right? How do you interview for that, when as a marketing leader, you've never run a digital part, a digital organization before. So it's really having the ability to partner with every other department in the organization and work with them, which, you know, to your point that can cause some conflicts to start off with but in the long run, it'll, it should be well worth it. >> Well, it sounds like that friction is probably unavoidable in the beginning as this person really works to understand all of the inner machinations of the organization and really identify what's best for the overall business. You mentioned empathy. And I think that's something that we've heard a lot about in the last year as leaders really needing to adopt that. And it sounds like this role for it to be such a catalyst of IT and business alignment, as it sounds like it really can be, that empathetic gene really needs to be turned on pretty high, I think. >> A 100%, right? They need to be able to be really understanding of the organization and the other people that they're working with, that those people do have a great bit of knowledge about the company that they're joining, right, generally and that they'll understand their jobs on a day-to-day basis. But the innovation parts, right, is where the Chief Digital Officer will come in. And if the Chief Digital Officer does this well, they can actually have a really big impact on the corporate culture as well which is a huge area that people are focusing on these days especially as every employee is remote. So it's a big job and a big ask and it's going to be really important for companies to hire the person with the best fit for their organization in this new role. >> You mentioned culture and that's something that is imperative but digital transformations won't be successful without the right cultural transformation. But that's easier said than done especially for organizations that have been around a while. And they're so used to the way they've done business for decades that it's hard to change that mindset, but it sounds like the Chief Digital Officer role should be one that is an influencer of that cultural change. How do you see them being able to do that within a, you know, stodgy, legacy institution? What are some of the things that they would be able to unlock? >> They should be able to re-energize portions of the company, right? If you're bringing in innovative ideas into a company that has had some difficulty hiring, right? There's a lot of companies that before the pandemic hit, were only starting to look at agile practices and things because quite frankly they couldn't hire anyone out of college to work there and they were afraid most of their workforce would retire out. So they're trying to get those people that want to be innovative, the high, the people that graduated top of their class. You're going to need the organization to change. And this is a perfect example of somebody that can come in and be a catalyst for all of that. So if they're coming up with new innovative ideas, if your marketing department wasn't transforming into a highly digital marketing department, they can come help invigorate that, right? And come up with a plan to get people in but also to train the people that are there that do want to learn these new skills in order bring the whole organization along with them. And I think they can have a huge impact if they, and get those innovative culture cycles changing. >> I'm curious if you think that, you know, given the last year and the amount of uncertainty that the pandemic has brought to the market, to the economy, now some of the challenges that leaders say, we're still going to have similar challenges in 2021. We still have a good percentage of our workforce remote. Is the role that the Chief Digital Officer can play, is that potentially going to help companies, really, is it going to help make a difference between those companies that really, not just survive this time but thrive like the winners versus the losers of tomorrow? >> I think it can, right? And a lot of this is going to be how the people that hire in the Chief Digital Officer and how much that team is willing to work with them. One of the things that we notice is the companies that do advance their culture a lot and advance in their customer centricity, the leadership level of the organization acts as a team as much as they expect to the frontline crews to act as teams. So you've got to be working together. And that goes all the way through, right? Your HR departments can't be incenting one group to work against another. You can't incent two people to have a goal, you know, to reach a goal in a different way and incent them differently so that they end up working against each other, right? This has to start being a real collaborative effort and it'll end up impacting the entire organization. But it's those companies that start looking at their leadership organization as a team, where they're all playing to make the same goals, to make their customers the most successful they can be. That's when you really start getting those changes and you really see a Chief Digital Officer having an impact versus those organizations where, you know, they'll be on the job for two to three years and it'll just go away because they've, you know, fought against themselves and not form that team culture. >> The impact is, can be tremendous from what I'm hearing. When we think about digital transformation, you know, people, processes, technology, that culture that's so important, we're also talking about that in the context of how do organizations use all their data and make the most sense of it. As more data sources become available, data's coming in faster, how does the Chief Digital Officer align with all of the data folks within an organization so that they can all have access to the right information to make data-driven decisions that are really for internal and externally looking benefits? >> Right, they can help make sense of the data that the company is collecting. One of the main things we're hearing right now is a lot of organizations are collecting a ton of data and they're either, you know, having some organization that creates metrics out of it. And that group just doesn't know really what the business does. They're relatively new to the business as a lot of data organizations are. So they go grab standard metrics and just provide, you know, shove as many metrics out. That's their output point, right? Where they get brownie points for every metric they create. And so we're hearing from a lot of leaders that, that they're getting literally hundreds of metrics a month and they have no idea what they're supposed to be doing with them or what this data is supposed to be showing them. And that's really of no benefit to anybody, right? It's a waste of time all through the organization. So the Chief Digital Officer, again, will be looking at what are the right business metrics to be tracking for that business and be working with those data officers to get the right innovation in so that you can see how well you're transforming, how well your company is actually doing, how much your customers actually do like what you're creating and the impact of the changes that you're making. So another thing we're being asked a lot of is, you know, I'm funding things and I'm being told they'll provide my customers value but when they get released I have no idea if they are, right? And the Chief Data Officer will help, be putting all the metrics that tie that in and showing telemetry gets built in. So that they've got the metrics that you need to truly run your business well. And so again, that'll be another part of the organization that the Chief Digital Officer would be working with. Along with the CIO, they'll be working with the data organizations as well. >> Well, there's so much opportunity that the chief Digital Officer role can deliver and unlock value in an organization as you've talked about. It'll be interesting, Laureen to see what happens in the next 12 months. Do we see what Gartner's predicting, 67% of companies are going to be adopting this role. I'm curious to see what the BizOps Coalition finds in the next year or so but thank you for sharing this insight. And this definitely sounds like a role where every day will be interesting, unique and not boring. (gentle upbeat music)

>>Hi, please join the biz ops coalition on April 21st. As we discuss how to get from chaos to clarity through your digital transformation. Recently, we commissioned a survey, um, by the biz ops coalition that the pen and found that the pandemic was a forcing function for better alignment towards business goals and outcomes. In fact, 87% of survey respondents believe 2020 increased the need for companies to be more agile and 95% confirmed. Digital transformation is about doing about business outcomes, not just technology. So while there's a verse reflects of the pandemic, um, are beginning to wane. A lot of the outcomes are here to stay. So join us on the 21st at 11:00 AM Eastern. As we discuss getting through from chaos >>To clarity.

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of theCUBE insights, powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, I'm going to provide a little detail on the recent announcement that Insight Partners was acquiring Veeam for five billion dollars. There was a lot of information on the announcement in press releases and in news articles, so what I really want to focus on is what it means for the industry generally, and for the data protection community specifically. So, very briefly this was a five billion dollar exit for Veeam on top of a five hundred million dollar investment lead by the same Insight Partners last year. I think it had earlier investments, kind of a rent, with an option to buy. New management is being promoted from within, which I think is significant, to replace the two founders. Andrei Baronov and Ratmir Timashev are going to step down after the transition and give up their board seats. Veeam is a fascinating company. It started in the 2006, 2007 time frame, after the two founders, who met in college, formed and sold Aleta software to Quest. Then they started a company called AMUST Software, from which they created Veeam. You never hear about AMUST, but I believe it's the engineering and development arm of Veeam. Now the new CEO of Veeam, Bill Largent told theCUBE that AMUST is now a wholly owned subsidiary of Veeam and it won't effect any of the engineering assets that exist in Prague and in Russia. So this I the thing about Veeam, it's a very closely held company controlled by it's two founders, with a domicile in Switzerland. My understanding is Baronov is, well he's the technical guru, and he's a resident of that country in Switzerland, and the HQ there is very lean, the sizable engineering teams, as they say, is in Russia and Prague. Timashev resides in the US, and he's a marketing genius, who helped create this company, and it's always punched above it's weight class with, epic parties, and great products. Now interestingly, Veeam's rise, it coincided with the ascendancy of VMware. Veeam became the standard backup software for small to medium size companies within VMware shops. Their products are renowned for being simple, and working as advertised, and their customer support is outstanding by all accounts. But the US business lagged, despite the fact that most of VMware's business is in the Americas. You'd think you think if they super glued themself to VMware their Americas business would be higher. So a few years ago they decided to really go hard after the enterprise and they brought in Peter Mckay, from VMware, and he began to build up a US presence. But the enterprise business, it requires a lot of things that were kind of antithetical to Veeam. So think about long sales cycles, expensive sales people, belly to belly selling, with the expectations of, road maps, and clarity around enterprise feature sets. Now McKay was named CEO with Baronov, who continued to run engineering. So it was a bit of a culture clash. You got the sales oriented leader wanting the engineering team to turn on a dime and help close large deals, and satiate partners like HPE and Sysco, and you've got this genius co-leader, slash engineer, with an incredible track record of delivering features that the customer loves. So it really didn't work out and then Veeam scaled back on it's ambitions some what. At it's annual user conference in Miami last year, Ratmir came on theCUBE, and he talked about how Veeam's act one was all about dominance in virtualized environment. Let's listen to what he said about act two and then we'll come back and talk about it >> That was act one, we dominated it, we grew from zero to one billion within 10, 12 years. We added three hundred fifty thousand customers over that time frame, and now it's act two. What is act two? Act two is the, again, the new major industry transformation to a hybrid cloud. What are the similarities? Again, Veeam is in a great position because we're at the right time at the right place with a brilliant product. >> Now what we know is that act two is about a few things, one, as Ratmir said, hybrid cloud, multi cloud management, etcetera. But it's also about an awesome exit for it's two founders. Wow five billion dollars, five x revenue multiple, handing over the reigns is really the third thing this is about and creating more traditional governance structure for Veeam. Now they're moving from a governance structure that was closely held and opaque to one that is still going to be closely held, but ideally somewhat less opaque. Which brings me to inside partners. In the money world, you basically have a spectrum of investors. On the one side you've got banks, who are the most conservative. On the other side you've got VCs, now they're the most aggressive, of course. Now somewhere in the middle, you have private equity firms. Now they traditionally invest in companies, and they squeeze them for EBITDA, and they suck money out. But inside is more of a hybrid. They invest in a number of companies as VCs, they take a portion of the ownership. And to me they're more of a rule of forty PE, meaning it's not just about EBITDA, it's about growth plus EBITDA. So a rule of thirty or a rule of forty PE company, they can dial down EBITDA and go for growth, or dial up EBIT and moderate growth. So it's a great model. So I would expect Insight to bring structure and leadership to Veeam, with the goal of taking the company public at some point, because they like to sell to companies for all cash, I don't see a logical buyer at these kind of price points for this company in this market. It's growing market but it's still not a giant market. All right let's shift gears a little bit and get into some of the ETR data. Here's a narrative they put out recently that, to me, sums it up well. ETR said Veeam is one of the few vendors growing share among customers vs previous surveys in the storage sector. And that said, spending intentions are decelerating and continue to look poor in the largest sectors and Veeam trails Rubrik and Cohesity, although on a larger user base. So you can see by this statement that Veeam is of course doing well, but there are some cracks in the enterprise armor that I want to talk about and drill into a little bit. Now this now this Arline customer quote also, to me, sums up one of the reasons for Veeam's success. What this person said is if I want to do a Veeam back up to the cloud, it's basically point and click, very easy to use. Now I've talked to dozens, if not hundreds of Veeam customers, and they all say the same thing, it just works, that's kind of their motto. So this is the big reason why Veeam has steadily gained gained share over time. Now take a look at this chart, which shows the progression over time of Veeam's progress in terms of what ETR calls market share. Now remember, market share is a measure of pervasiveness in the ETR data set. And you can see, in the data, that Veeam has had a steady rise since ETR started tracking them at critical mass back in 2014. And you can see the steady decline in the survey for Veritas and Commvault and what appears to be, rapid momentum building for Rubrik and Cohesity, two companies that I said in my 2020 predictions breaking analysis that would continue to do well this year. Now notice I had to black out the January 2020 survey, which is ending shortly, so stay tuned for those results. But let's drill into Veeam's performance a little bit more. What this chart shows is a candlestick of net score and market share across all the respondents in the ETR survey for Veeam. Remember net score is a measure of spending momentum that subtracts customers that are spending less, the red, from those spending more, the greens. And it's represented over time by this blue line that you see. You can see that this blue line, it bounces around but it holds steady in the past couple of years pretty generally, and really in that thirty to forty percent range which you see on the left hand axis. Now that yellow line, is market share or pervasiveness, it also continues to climb steadily as I showed you in the previous chart. Now again this is amongst all respondents. Let's now take a look at this chart which isolates Veeam's performance in the largest companies, that enterprise push. Notice the pictures is somewhat choppier. Market share is okay, although unlike the previous chart, it's not steady. This is stunning. Peter McKay left in October 2018, and that's when Veeam really pulled back on it's big enterprise push, and you can see, there's a noticeable and steady drop there based on ETR data. So what's happening here is we are entering a new chapter for Veeam, act two so to speak. With new leadership and new governance. Danny Allen is taking over CTO, he previously ran strategy, Bill Largent is going to be CEO, the HQ is moving into the US. So in my opinon, Veeam's issues in the US have been more execution related than anything else. Veeam is a leader. So partnerships with Nutanix, Sysco, HPE, NetApp, should continue to improve and be somewhat productive, actually largely productive. Let's talk a little bit about Veeam's architecture, and a point of discussion that you often hear in the community. Veeam's a Window's based architecture. Now is that a blessing or is that a curse? Well the pros are that the Veeam team came out of a Windows world, and they know the platform very well. They are amazingly good at adding function, without screwing up performance somewhere else. You saw this a couple years back when they were making a big push on the enterprise and they increased the file sizes, and the number of objects that they could support. Another example is when Veeam added cloud back up, it was a really good product, version one. Unlink many products, when they first tried to port to the cloud, that wasn't the case. Recovery from the cloud is very tricky. Things are out of sync, you got a metadata challenge, and generally Veeam was able to achieve consistent levels of performance with it's cloud product. Now flip side of this, is that if you look at most, if not all, modern architectures today, are based on Linux. And once you start getting into mulit cloud, and cross cloud management, you're going to bump into and be interfacing with lots of Linux based systems. So Veeam is going to have migrate code, and maintaining consistent performance is going to be tougher. But as David Fourier, my colleague points out, there are many many ways to skin a cat, and Veeam's engineering team has really, based on it's track record, has proven that it can solve tough problems, and really deliver a great product consistently. I think the bigger issue and challenge for Veeam again, is execution in the US, and of course the enterprise. Customers in EBC's executive briefing centers, they want to see road maps, and enterprise features, and specials. And so we'll see, if that's something that Veeam has an appetite for. If they do, and I'm one of the incumbents, I'd be worried that Veeam could do a land and expand. Where Veeam isn't as strong in large enterprises, big companies they buy from Veeam. Maybe it's a smaller division, or remote location, but it's not like they don't do business in large accounts, they do. So in a way, they've already landed and they have an opportunity to expand, so that's something to pay attention to. If I'm an enterprise customer, I would be pressing Veeam on it's roadmap, and having them clarify their vision around hybrid and multi cloud management. Will Veeam be more transparent and willing to do specials for the enterprise, and their big partners, who expect them, when they say jump, they expect Veeam to say how high. How will Veeam's culture change, is the other thing I want to focus on. As the two founders step down, are they going to be able to main their engineering ethos, and customer loyalty, and can they figure out the enterprise. I'm a big fan of founder lead companies, when founders leave cultures often change. When founders stay, they're intensely committed, even beyond great CEOs who aren't founders. Look at Michael Dell. He went to the mat to keep his company against the great icon, now look at Dell technologies, after the EMC acquisition, it was completely transformed. Look at Oracle, look at the lengths that Larry Ellison goes to win. Compare that to a great CEO Joe Tucci, when he was at EMC, but you know when he was done, he was done, it was over. It wasn't his baby. So my point is how will this effect Veeam's culture and prospects in the long term. For me the bottom line is the big opportunity's in the US. And that's about execution. And I expect with the move to US HQ, new management, I expect they're going to see consistent market share gains, that's going to continue. The enterprise however, that's going to take longer, it's going to require more patience and more money. And with Veeam transitioning from essentially the two founder's lifestyle business into a company that's really built for an exit, they're going to have more money to invest, greater transparency, I hope, and a path to really build on their past successes. So this Dave Vellante signing out from the latest episode of theCUBE insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching everybody and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from the Wigwam in Phoenix Arizona, it's theCUBE, covering data platforms 2017, brought to you by Qubole. >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. I'm joined by George Gilbert from Wikibond and we're at DataPlatforms 2017. Small conference down at the historic Wigwam Resort, just outside of Phoenix, talking about, kind of a new approach to big data really. A Cloud native approach to big data and really kind of flipping the old model on it's head. We're really excited to be joined by Tripp Smith, he's the CTO of Clarity Insights, up on a panel earlier today. So first off, welcome Tripp. >> Thank you. >> For the folks that aren't familiar with Clarity Insights Give us a little background. >> So Clarity is a pure play data analytics professional services company. That's all we do. We say we advise, build and enable for our client. So what that means, is data strategy, data engineering and data science and making sure that we can action the insights that our customers get out of their data analytics platforms. >> Jeff: So not a real busy area these days. >> It's growing pretty well. >> Good for you. So a lot of interesting stuff came up on the panel. But one of the things that you reacted to, I reacted to as well from the keynote. Was this concept of, you know before you had kind of the data scientist with the data platform behind them, being service providers to the basic business units. Really turning that model on it's head. Giving access to the data to all the business units, and people that want to consume that. Making the data team really enablers of kind of a platform play. Seemed to really resonate with you as well. >> Yeah absolutely, so if you think about it, a lot of the focus on legacy platforms was driven by, scarcity around the resources to deal with data. So you created this almost pyramid structure with IT and architecture at the top. They were the gatekeepers and kind of the single door where Insights got out to the business. >> Jeff: Right. >> So in the big data world and with Cloud, with elastic scale, we've been able to turn that around and actually create much more collaborative friction in parallel with the business. Putting the data engineers, data scientists and business focus analystist together and making them more of partners, than just customers of IT. >> Jeff: Right, very interesting way, to think of it as a partner. It's a very different mindset. The other piece that came up over and over in the Q&A at the end. Was how do people get started? How are they successful? So you deal with a lot of customers, right? That's your business. What are some stories, or one that you can share of best practices, when people come and they say, we obviously hired you, we wrote a check. But how do we get started, where do we go first? How do you help people out? >> We focus on self funding analytic programs. Getting those early wins, tend to pay for more investment in analytics. So if you look at the ability to scale out as a starting point. Then aligning that business value and the roadmap in a way that going to both demonstrate the value along the way, and contribute to that capability is important. I think we also recommend to our clients that they solve the hard problems around security and data governance and compliance first. Because that allows them to deal with more valuable data and put that to work for their business. >> So is there any kind of low hanging fruit that you see time and time and time again? That just is like, ah we can do this. We know it's got huge ROI. It's either neglected cause they don't think it's valuable or it's neglected because it's in the backroom. Or is there any easy steps that you find some patterns? >> Yeah, absolutely. So we go to market by industry vertical. So within each vertical, we've defined the value maps and ROI levers within that business. Then align a lot of our analytic solutions to those ROI levers. In doing that, we focus this on being able to build a small, multifunctional team that can work directly with the business. Then deliver that in real time in an interactive way. >> Right, another thing you just talked about security and government, are we past the security concerns about public Cloud? Does that even come up as an issue anymore? >> You know, I think there was a great comment today that if you had money, you wouldn't put it in your safe at home. You'd put it in a bank. >> Jeff: I missed that one, that's a good one. >> The Cloud providers are really focused on security in a way that they can invest in it. That an individual enterprise really can't. So in a lot of cases, moving to the Cloud means, letting the experts take on the area that they're really good at and letting you focus on your business. >> Jeff: Right, interesting they had, Amazon is here, Google's here, Oracle's here and Azure is here. AWS reinvent one of my favorite things, is Tuesday night with James Hamilton. Which I don't know if you've ever been, it's a can't miss presentation. But he talks about the infrastructure investments that Amazon, AWS can make. Which again, compared to any individual enterprise are tremendous in not only security, but networking and all these other things that they do. So it really seems that the scale that these huge Cloud providers have now reach, gives them such an advantage over any individual enterprise, whether it's for security, or networking or anything else. So it's very different kind of a model. >> Yeah, absolutely, or even the application platform, like Google now having Spanner. Which has the scale advantage of Cassandra or H Based. The transactional capabilities of a traditional RDB mess. I guess my question is. Once a customer is considering Qubole, as a Cloud first data platform. How do you help the customer evaluate it? Relative to the dist rose that started out on Prim, and then the other Cloud native ones that are from Azure and Google and Amazon. >> You know I think that's a great question. It kind of focuses back on, letting the experts do what they're really good at. My business may not be differentiated by my ability to operate and support Hadoop. But it's really putting Hadoop to work in order to solve this business problems that makes me money. So when I look at something like Qubole, it's actually going to that expert and saying, "Hey own this for me and deliver this in a reliable way." Rather than me having to solve those problems over and over again myself. >> Do you think that those problems are not solved to the same degree by the Cloud native services? >> So I think there's definitely an ability to leverage Cloud data services. But there's also this aspect of administration and management, and understanding how those integrate within an ecosystem. That I don't think necessarily every company is going to be able to approach in the same way, that a company like Qubole can. So again, being able to shift that off and having that kind of support gives you the ability to focus back on what really makes a difference for you. >> So Tripp we're running out of time. We got a really tight schedule here. I'm just curious, it's a busy conference season. Big data's all over the place. How did you end up here? What is it about this conference and this technology that got you to come down to the, I think it's only a 106 today, weather to take it in. What do you see that's a special opportunity here? >> Yeah you know, this is Data Platforms 2017. It's been a really great conference, just in the focus on being able to look at Cloud and look at this differentiation. Outside of the realm of inventing new shiny objects and really putting it to work for new business cases and that sort of thing. >> Jeff: Well Tripp Smith, thanks for stopping by theCUBE. >> Excellent, Thank you guys for having me. >> All right, he's George Gilbert, I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching Data Platforms 2017 from the historic Wigwam Resort in Phoenix Arizona. Thanks for watching. (techno music)

>> Narrator: At the DataWorks Summit, Europe 2017. Brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here live from Munich, Germany at DataWorks 2017, Hadoop Summit formerly, the conference name before it changed to DataWorks. I'm John Furrier with my cohost Dave Vellante. Our next guest, we're excited to have Alan Nance who flew in, just for the CUBE interview today. Executive Vice President with Virtual Clarity. Former star, I call practitioner of the Cloud, knows the Cloud business. Knows the operational aspects of how to use technology. Alan, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming on the CUBE. >> Thank you for having me again. >> Great to see you, you were in the US recently, we had a chance to catch up. And one of the motivations that we talked with you today was, a little bit about some of the things you're looking at, that are transformative. Before we do that, let's talk a little about your history. And what your role is at Virtual Clarity. >> So, as you guys have, basically, followed that career, I started out in the transformation time with ING Bank. And started out, basically, technology upwards. Looking at converged infrastructure, converged infrastructure into VDI. When you've got that, you start to look at Clouds. Then you start to experiment with Clouds. And I moved from ING, from earlier experimentation, into Phillips. So, while Phillips, at that time had both the health care and lighting group. And then you start to look at consumption based Cloud propositions. And you remember the big thing that we were doing at that time, when we identified that 80% of the IT spend was non differentiating. So the thing was, how do we get away from almost a 900 million a year spend on legacy? How do we turn that into something that's productive for the Enterprise? So we spent a lot of time creating the consumption based infrastructure operating platform. A lot of things we had to learn. Because let's be honest, Amazon was still trying to become the behemoth it is now. IBM still didn't get the transition, HP didn't get it. So there was a lot of experimentation on which of the operating model-- >> You're the first mover on the operating model, The Cloud, that has scaled to it. And really differentiated services for your business, for also, cost reductions. >> Cost reductions have been phenomenal. And we're talking about halving the budget over a three year period. We're talking about 500 million a year savings. So these are big, big savings. The thing I feel we still need to tackle, is that when we re-platform your business, it should leave to agile acceleration of your growth path. And I think that's something that we still haven't conquered. So I think we're getting better and better at using platforms to save money, to suppress the expenditure. What we now need to do is to convert that into growth platform business. >> So, how about the data component? Because you were CIO of infrastructure at Phillips. But lately, you've been really spending a lot of time thinking about the data, how data adds value. So talk about your data journey. >> Well if I look at the data journey, the journey started for me, with, basically, a meeting with Tom Ritz in 2013. And he came with a very, very simple proposition. "You guys need to learn how to create "and store, and reason over data, "for the benefit of the Enterprise." And I think, "Well that's cool." Because up until that point, nobody had really been talking about data. Everyone was talking about the underlying technologies of the Cloud, but not really of the data element. And then we had a session with JP Rangaswami, who was at Salesforce, who basically, also said, "Well don't just think "about data lakes, but think also "about data streams and data rivers. "Because the other thing that's "going to happen here is that data's "not going to be stagnant in a company like yours." So we took that, and what happened, I think, in Phillips, which I think you see in a lot of companies, is an explosion across the Enterprise. So you've got people in social doing stuff. You got CDO's appearing. You've got the IOT. You've got the old, legacy systems, the systems of record. And so you end up with this enormous fragmentation of data. And with that you get a Wild West of what I call data stewardship. So you have a CDO who says, "Well I'm in charge of data." And you got a CMO who says, "Well I'm in charge of marketing data." Or you've got a CSO, says, "Yeah, "but I'm the security data guy." And there's no coherence, in terms of moving the Enterprise forward. Because everybody's focused on their own functionality around that data and not connecting it. So where are we now? I think right now we have a huge proliferation of data that's not connected, in many organizations. And I think we're going to hybrid but I don't think that's a future proof thing for most organizations. >> John: What do you mean by that? >> Well, if I look at what a lot of those suppliers are saying, they're really saying, "The solution "that you need, is to have a hybrid solution "between the public Cloud and your own Cloud." I thought, "But that's not the problem "that we need to solve." The problem that we need to solve is first of all, data gravity. So if I look at all the transformations that are running into trouble, what do they forget? When we go out and do IOT, when we go out and do social media analysis, it all has to flow back into those legacy systems. And those legacy systems are all going to be in the old world. And so you get latency issues, you get formatting issues. And so, we have to solve the data gravity issue. And we have to also solve this proliferation of stewardship. Somebody has to be in charge of making this work. And it's not going to be, just putting in a hybrid solution. Because that won't change the operating model. >> So let me ask the question, because on one of the things you're kind of dancing around, Dave brought up the data question. Something that I see as a problem in the industry, that hasn't yet been solved, and I'm just going to throw it out there. The CIO has always been the guy managing IT. And then he would report to the CFO, get the budget, blah, blah, blah. We know that's kind of played out its course. But there's no operational playbook to take the Cloud, mobile data at scale, that's going to drive the transformative impact. And I think there's some people doing stuff here and there, pockets. And maybe there's some organizations that have a cadence of managers, that are doing compliance, security, blah, blah, blah. But you have a vision on this. And some information that you're tracking around. An architecture that would bring it to scale. Could you share your thoughts on this operational model of Cloud, at a management level? >> Well, part of this is also based on your own analyst, Peter Boris. When he says, "The problem with data "is that its value is inverse to its half life." So, what the Enterprise has to do is it has to get to analyzing and making this data valuable, much, much faster then it is right now. And Chris Sellender of Unifi recently said, "You know, the problem's not big data. "The problem's fast data." So, now, who is best positioned in the organization to do this? And I believe it's the COO. >> John: Chief Operating Officer? >> Chief Operating Officer. I don't think it's going to be the CIO. Because I'm trying to figure out who's got the problem. Who's got the problem of connecting the dots to improving the operation of the company? Who is in charge of actually creating an operating platform that the business can feed off of? It's the C Tower. >> John: Why not the CFO? >> No, I think the CFO is going to be a diminishing value, over time. Because a couple of reasons. First of all, we see it in Phillips. There's always going to be a fiduciary role for the CFO. But we're out of the world of capex. We're out of the world of balancing assets. Everything is now virtual. So really, the value of a CFO, as sitting on the tee, if I use the racquetball, the CFO standing on the tee is not going to bring value to the Enterprise. >> And the CIO doesn't have the business juice, is your argument? Is that right? >> It depends on the CIO. There are some CIO's out there-- >> Dave: But in general, we're generalizing. >> Generally not. Because they've come through the ranks of building applications, which now has to be thrown away. They've come through the ranks of technology, which is now less relevant. And they've come through the ranks of having huge budgets and huge people to deploy certain projects. All of that's going away. And so what are you left with? Now you're left with somebody who absolutely has to understand how to communicate with the business. And that's what they haven't done for 30 years. >> John: And stream line business process. >> Well, at least get involved in the conversation. At least get involved in the conversation. Now if I talk to business people today, and you probably do too, most of them will still say there's this huge communication gulf. Between what we're trying to achieve and what the technology people are doing with our goals. I mean, I was talking to somebody the other day. And this lady heads up the sales for a global financial institution. She's sitting on the business side of this. And she's like, "The conversation should be "about, if our company wants to improve "our cost income ratio, and they ask me, "as sales to do it, I have to sell 10 times "more to make a difference. "Then if IT would save money. "So for every Euro they save. "And give me an agile platform, "is straight to the bottom line. "Every time I sell, because of our "cost income ratio, I just can't sell against that. "But I can't find on the IT side, "anybody who, sort of, gets my problem. "And is trying to help me with it." And then you look at her and what? You think a hybrid solution's going to help her? (laughs) I have no idea what you're talking about. >> Right, so the business person here then says, "I don't really care where it runs." But to your point, you care about the operational model? >> Alan: Absolutely. >> And that's really what Cloud should be, right? >> I think everybody who's going to achieve anything from an investment in Cloud, will achieve it in the operating world. They won't just achieve it on the cost savings side. Or on making costs more transparent, or more commoditized. Where it has to happen is in the operating model. In fact, we actually have data of a very large, transportation, logistics company, who moved everything that they had, in an attempt to be in a zero Cloud. And on the benchmark, saved zero. And they saved zero because they weren't changing the operating model. So they were still-- >> They lifted and shifted, but didn't change the operational mindset. >> Not at all. >> But there could have been business value there. Maybe things went faster? >> There could have been. >> Maybe simpler? >> But I'm not seeing it. >> Not game changing. >> Not game changing, certainly yes. >> Not as meaningful, it was a stretch. >> Give an example of a game changing scenario. >> Well for me, and I think this is the next most exciting thing. Is this idea of platforms. There's been an early adoption of this in Telco. Where we've seen people coming in and saying, "If you stock all of this IT, as we've known it, "and you leverage the ideas of Cloud computing, "to have scalable, invisible, infrastructure. "And you put a single platform on top of it "to run your business, you can save money." Now, I've seen business cases where people who are about to embark on this program are taking a billion a year out of their cost base. And in this company, it's 1/7th of their total profit. That's a game changer, for me. But now, who's going to help them do that? Who's going to help them-- >> What's the platform look like? >> And a million's a lot of money. >> Let's go, grab a sheet of paper how we-- >> So not everybody will even have a billion-- >> But that gets the attention of certainly, the CEO, the COO, CFO says, "Tell me more." >> You're alluding to it, Dave. You need to build a layer to punch, to doing that. So you need to fix the data stewardship problem. You have to create the invisible infrastructure that enables that platform. And you have to have a platform player who is prepared to disrupt the industry. And for me-- >> Dave: A Cloud player. >> A Cloud player, I think it's a born in the Cloud player. I think, you know, we've talked about it privately. >> So who are the forces to attract? You got Microsoft, you got AWS, Google, maybe IBM, maybe Oracle. >> See, I think it's Google. >> Dave: Why, why do you think it's Google? >> I think it's because, the platforms that I'm thinking of, and if I look in retail, if I look in financial services, it's all about data. Because that's the battle, right. We all agree, the battle's on data. So it's got to be somebody who understands data at scale, understands search at scale, understands deep learning at scale. And understands technology enough to build that platform and make it available in a consumption model. And for me, Google would be the ideal player, if they would make that step. Amazon's going to have a different problem because their strategy's not going down that route. And I think, for people like IBM or Oracle, it would require cannibalizing too much of their existing business. But they may dally with it. And they may do it in a territory where they have no install base. But they're not going to be disrupting the industry. I just don't think it's going to be possible for them. >> And you think Google has the Enterprise chops to pull it off? >> I think Google has the platform. I would agree with Alan on this. Something, I've been very critical on Google. Dave brings this up because he wants me to say it now, and I will. Google is well positioned to be the platform. I am very bullish on Google Cloud with respect to their ability to moon shot or slingshot to the future faster, than, potentially others. Or as they say in football, move the goal posts and change the game. That being said, where I've been critical of Google, and this is where, I'll be critical, is their dogma is very academic, very, "We're the technology leader, "therefore you should use Google G Suite." I think that they have to change their mindset, to be more Enterprise focused, in the sense of understand not the best product will always win, but the B chip they have to develop, have to think about the Enterprise. And that's a lot of white glove service. That's a lot of listening. That's not being too arrogant. I mean, there's a borderline between confidence and arrogance. And I think Google crosses it a little bit too much, Dave. And I think that's where Google recognizes, some people in Google recognize that they don't have the Enterprise track record, for sure on the sales side. You could add 1,000 sales reps tomorrow but do they have experience? So there's a huge translation issue going on between Google's capability and potential energy. And then the reality of them translating that into an operational footprint. So for them to meet the mark of folks like you, you can't be speaking Russian and English. You got to speak the same language. So, the language barrier, so to speak, the linguistics is different. That's my only point. >> I sense in your statements, there's a frustration here. Because we know that the key to some really innovative, disruption is with Google. And I think what we'd all like to do, even while I was addressing the camera. I'd love to see Diane, who does understand Enterprise, who's built a whole career servicing Enterprises extremely well, I'd like to see a little bit of a glimpse of, "We are up for this." And I understand when you're part of the bigger Google, the numbers are a little bit skewered against you to make a big impact and carry the firm with you. But I do believe there's an enormous opportunity in the Enterprise space. And people are just waiting for this. >> Well Diane Greene knows the Enterprise. So she came in, she's got to change the culture. And I know she's doing it. Because I have folks at Google, that I know that work there, that tell me privately, that it's happening, maybe not fast enough. But here's the thing. If you walked in the front door at Google, Alan Nance, this is my point, and he said, "I have experience and I have a plan "to build a platform, to knock a billion "dollars off seven companies, that I know, personally. "That I can walk in and win. "And move a billion dollars to their "bottom line with your platform." They might not understand what that means. >> I don't know, you know I was at Google Next a few weeks ago, last month. And I thought they were more, to your point, open to listening. Maybe not as arrogant as you might be presenting. And somewhat more humble. Still pretty ballsy. But I think Google recognizes that it needs help in the Enterprise. And here's why. Something that we've talked about in the past, is, you've got top down initiatives. You've got bottom up initiatives. And you've got middle out. What frequently happens, and I'd love for you to describe your experiences. The leaders say, the top CXO's say, "Okay we're going." And they take off and the organization doesn't follow them. If it's bottoms up, you don't have the top down in premature. So how do you address that? What are you seeing and how do you address that problem? >> So I think that's a really, really good observation. I mean, what I see in a lot of the big transformations that I've been involved in, is that speed is of the essence. And I think when CEO's, because usually it's the CEO. CEO comes in and they think they've got more time than they actually have to make the impact in the Enterprise. And it doesn't matter if they're coming in from the outside or they've grown up. They always underestimate their ability to do change, in time. And now what's changed over the past few years, is the average tenure of a CEO is six years. You know, I mean, Jack Welch was 20 years at GE. You can do a lot of damage in 20 years. And he did a lot of great things at GE over a 20 year period. You've only got six years now. And what I see in these big transformation programs is they start with a really good vision. I mean Mackenzie, Bain, Boston. They know the essence of what needs to happen. >> Dave: They can sell the dream. >> They can sell the dream. And the CEO sort of buys into it. And then immediately you get into the first layer, "Okay, okay, so we've got to change the organization." And so you bring in a lot of these companies that will run 13 work streams over three years, with hundreds of people. And at the end of that time, you're almost halfway through your tenure. And all you've got is a new design. Or a new set of job descriptions or strategies. You haven't actually achieved anything. And then the layer down is going to run into real problems. One of the problems that we had at the company I worked at before, was in order to support these platforms you needed really good master data management. And we suddenly realized that. And so we had to really put in an accelerated program to achieve that, with Impatica. We did it, but it cost us a year and 1/2. At a bank I know, they can't move forward because they're looking at 700 million of technology debt, they can't get past. So they end up going down a route of, "Maybe one of these big suppliers "can buy our old stuff. "And we can tag on some transformational "deal at the back end of that." None of those are working. And then what happens is, in my mind, if the CEO, from what I see, has not achieved escape velocity at the end of year three. So he's showing the growth, or she's showing the digital transformation, it's kind of game over. The Enterprise has already figured out they've stalled it long enough, not intentionally. And then we go back into an austerity program. Because you got to justify the millions you've spent in the last three years. And you've got nothing to show for it. >> And you're preparing three envelopes. >> So you got to accelerate those layers. You got to take layers out and you've got to have a really, I would say almost like, 90 day iteration plans that show business outcomes. >> But the technology layer, you can put in an abstraction layer, use APIs and infrastructure as code, all that cool stuff. But you're saying it's the organizational challenges. >> I think that's the real problem. It is the real problem, is the organization. And also, because what you're really doing in terms of the Enterprise, is you're moving from a more traditional supply chain that you own. And you've matriculated with SAP or with Oracle. Now you're talking about creating a digital value chain. A digital value chain that's much more based on a more mobile ecosystem, where you would have thin text in one area or insurance text, that have to now fit into an agile supply chain. It's all about the operating model. If you don't have people who know how to drive that, the technology's not going to help you. So you've got to have people on the business side and the technology side coming together to make this work. >> Alan, I have a question for you. What's you're prediction, okay, knowing what you know. And kind of, obviously, you have some frustrations in platforms with trying to get the big players to listen. And I think they should listen to you. But this is going to happen. So I would believe that what you're saying with the COO, operational things radically changing differently. Obviously, the signs are all there. Data centers are moving into the Cloud. I mean this is radical stuff, in a good way. And so, what's your prediction for how this plays out vis a vis Amazon Web Services, Google Cloud Platform Azure, IBM Cloud SoftLayer. >> Well here's my concern a little bit. I think if Google enters the fray I think everybody will reconfigure. Because if we'd assume that Google plays to its strengths and goes out there and finds the right partners. It's going to reconfigure the industry. If they don't do that, then what the industry's going to do is what it's done. Which means that the platforms are going to be hybrid platforms that are dominated by the traditional players. By the SOPs, by the Oracles, by the IBMs. And what I fear is that there may actually be a disillusionment. Because they will not bring the digital transformation and all the wonderful things that we all know, are out there to be gained. So you may get, "We've invested all this money." You see it a little bit with big data. "I've got this huge layer. "I've got petabytes. "Why am I not smarter? "Why is my business not going so much better? "I've put everything in there." I think we've got to address the operating problem. And we have to find a dialogue at the C Suite. >> Well to your point, and we talked about this. You know, you look at the core of Enterprise apps, the Oracle stuff is not moving in droves, to the Cloud. Oracle's freezing the market right now. Betting that it can get there before the industry gets there. And if it does-- >> Alan: It's not. >> And it might, but if it does, it's not going to be that radical transformation you're prescribing. >> They have too much to lose. Let's be honest, right. So Oracle is a victim of it's own success, pretty much like SAP. It has to go to the Cloud as a defensive play. Because the last thing either of those want is to be disintermediated by Amazon. Which may or may not happen anyway. Because a lot of companies will disintermediate if they can. Because the licensing is such a painful element for most enterprises, when they deal with these companies. So they have to believe that the platform is not going to look like that. >> And they're still trying to figure out the pricing models, and the margin models, and Amazon's clearly-- >> You know what's driving the pricing models is not the growth on the consumer side. >> Right, absolutely. >> That's not what's driving it. So I think we need another player. I really think we need another player. If it's not Google, somebody else. I can't think who would have the scale, the money to-- >> The only guys who have the scale, you got 10 cents, maybe a couple China Clouds, maybe one Japan Cloud and that's it. >> To be honest, you raise a good point. I haven't really looked at the Ali Baba's and the other people like that who may pick up that mantle. I haven't looked at them. Ali Baba's interesting, because just like Amazon, they have their own business that runs on platforms. And a very diverse business, which is growing faster than Amazon and is more profitable than Amazon. So they could be interesting. But I'm still hopeful. We should figure this out. >> Google should figure it out. You're absolutely right. They're investing, and I thought they put forth a pretty good messaging at the Google Next. You covered it remotely but I think they understand the opportunity. And I think they have the stomach for it. >> We had reporters there as well, at the event. We just did, they came to our studio. Google is self aware that they need to work on the Enterprise. I think the bigger thing that you're highlighting is the operational model is shifting to a scale point where it's going to change stewardship and COO meaning to be, I like that. The other thing I want to get your reaction to is something I heard this morning, on the CUBE from Sean Connelly. Which that goes with some of the things that we're seeing where you're seeing Cloud becoming a more centralized view. Where IOT is an Edge case. So you have now, issues around architectural things. Your thoughts and reaction to this balance between Edge and Cloud. >> Well I think this is where you're also going to have your data gravity challenge. So, Dave McCrory has written a lot about the concept of data gravity. And in my mind, too many people in the Enterprise don't understand it. Which is basically, that data attracts more data. And more data you have, it'll attract more. And then you create all these latency issues when you start going out to the Edge. Because when we first went out to the Edge I think, even at Phillips, we didn't realize how much interaction needed to come back. And that's going to vary from company to company. So some company's are going to want to have that data really quickly because they need to react to it immediately. Others may not have that. But what you do have is you have this balancing act. About, "What do I keep central? "And what do I put at the Edge?" I think Edge Technology is amazing. And when we first looked at it, four years ago, I mean, it's come such a long way. And what I am encouraged by is that, that data layer, so the layer that Sean talks about, there's a lot of exciting things happening. But again, my problem is what's the Enterprise going to do with that? Because it requires a different operating model. If I take an example of a manufacturing company, I know a manufacturing company right now that does work in China. And it takes all the data back to its central mainframes for processing. Well if you've got the Edge, you want to be changing the way you process. Which means that the decision makers on the business need to be insitu. They need to be in China. And we need to be bringing, systems of record data and combining it with local social data and age data, so we get better decisions. So we can drive growth in those areas. If I just enable it with technology but don't change the business model the business is not going to grow. >> So Alan, we always loved having you on. Great practitioner, but now you've kind of gone over to the dark side. We've heard of a company called Virtual Clarity. Tell us about what you're doing there. >> So what we're vested in, what I am very much vested in, with my team at Virtual Clarity, is creating this concept of precision guided transformation. Where you work on the business, on what are the outcomes we really need to get from this? And then we've combined, I would say it's like a data nerve center. So we can quickly analyze, within a matter of weeks, where we are with the company, and what routes to value we can create. And then we'll go and do it. So we do it in 90 day increments. So the business now starts to believe that something's really going to happen. None of these big, insert miracle here after three year programs. But actually going out and doing it. The second thing that I think that we're doing that I'm excited about is bringing in enlightened people who represent the Enterprise. So, one of my colleagues, former COO of Unilever, we just brought on a very smart lady, Dessa Grassa, who was the CDO at JP Morgan Chase. And the idea is to combine the insights that we have on the demand side, the buy side, with the insights that we have on the technology side to create better operating models. So that combination of creating a new view that is acceptable to the C Suite. Because these people understand how you talk to them. But at the same time, runs on this concept of doing everything quickly. That's what we're about right now. >> That's awesome, we should get you hooked up with our new analyst we just hired, James Corbelius, from IBM. Was focusing on exactly that. The intersections of developers, Cloud, AI machine learning and data, all coming together. And IOT is going to be a key application that we're going to see coming out of that. So, congratulations. Alan thank you for spending the time to come in. >> Thanks for allowing me. >> To see us in the CUBE. It's the CUBE, bringing you more action. Here from DataWorks 2017. I'm John Furrier with my cohost Dave Vallante, here on the CUBE, SiliconANGLE Media's flagship program. Where we've got the events, straight from SiliconANGLE. Stay with us for more great coverage. Day one of two days of coverage at DataWorks 2017. We'll be right back.

(bright music) >> Announcer: It's theCUBE. Covering the Virtual Vertica Big Data Conference 2020, brought to you by Vertica. Hello everybody, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of the Vertica Big Data Conference, the Virtual BDC. My name is Dave Volante, and you're watching theCUBE. And we're here with Joe Gonzalez, who is a Vertica DBA, at MassMutual Financial. Joe, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE I'm sorry that we can't be face to face in Boston, but at least we're being responsible. So thank you for coming on. >> (laughs) Thank you for having me. It's nice to be here. >> Yeah, so let's set it up. We'll talk about, you know, a little bit about MassMutual. Everybody knows it's a big financial firm, but what's your role there and kind of your mission? >> So my role is Vertica DBA. I was hired January of last year to come on and manage their Vertica cluster. They've been on Vertica for probably about a year and a half before that started out on on-prem cluster and then move to AWS Enterprise in the cloud, and brought me on just as they were considering transitioning over to Vertica's EON mode. And they didn't really have anybody dedicated to Vertica, nobody who really knew and understood the product. And I've been working with Vertica for about probably six, seven years, at that point. I was looking for something new and landed a really good opportunity here with a great company. >> Yeah, you have a lot of experience in Vertica. You had a role as a market research, so you're a data guy, right? I mean that's really what you've been doing your entire career. >> I am, I've worked with Pitney Bowes, in the postage industry, I worked with healthcare auditing, after seven years in market research. And then I've been with MassMutual for a little over a year now, yeah, quite a lot. >> So tell us a little bit about kind of what your objectives are at MassMutual, what you're kind of doing with the platform, what application just supporting, paint a picture for us if you would. >> Certainly, so my role is, MassMutual just decided to make Vertica its enterprise data warehouse. So they've really bought into Vertica. And we're moving all of our data there probably about to good 80, 90% of MassMutual's data is going to be on the Vertica platform, in EON mode. So, and we have a wide usage of that data across corporation. Right now we're about 50 terabytes and growing quickly. And a wide variety of users. So there's a lot of ETLs coming in overnight, loading a lot of data, transforming a lot of data. And a lot of reporting tools are using it. So currently, Tableau MicroStrategy. We have Alteryx using it, and we also have API's running against it throughout the day, 24/7 with people coming in, especially now these days with the, you know, some financial uncertainty going on. A lot of people coming and checking their 401k's, checking their insurance and status and what not. So we have to handle a lot of concurrent traffic on top of the normal big query. So it's a quite diverse cluster. And I'm glad they're really investing in using Vertica as their overall solution for this. >> Yeah, I mean, these days your 401k like this, right? (laughing) Afraid to look. So I wonder, Joe if you could share with our audience. I mean, for those who might not be as familiar with the history of just Vertica, and specifically, about MPP, you've had historically you have, you know, traditional RDBMS, whether it's Db2 or Oracle, and then you had a spate of companies that came out with this notion of MPP Vertica is the one that, I think it's probably one of the few if only brands that they've survived, but what did that bring to the industry and why is that important for people to understand, just in terms of whatever it is, scale, performance, cost. Can you explain that? >> To me, it actually brought scale at good cost. And that's why I've been a big proponent of Vertica ever since I started using it. There's a number, like you said of different platforms where you can load big data and store and house big data. But the purpose of having that big data is not just for it to sit there, but to be used, and used in a variety of ways. And that's from, you know, something small, like the first installation I was on was about 10 terabytes. And, you know, I work with the data warehouses up to 100 terabytes, and, you know, there's Vertica installations with, you know, hundreds of petabytes on them. You want to be able to use that data, so you need a platform that's going to be able to access that data and get it to the clients, get it to the customers as quickly as possible, and not paying an arm and a leg for the privilege to do so. And Vertica allows companies to do that, not only get their data to clients and you know, in company users quickly, but save money while doing so. >> So, but so, why couldn't I just use a traditional RDBMS? Why not just throw it all into Oracle? >> One, cost, Oracle is very expensive while Vertica's a lot more affordable than that. But the column-score structure of Vertica allows for a lot more optimized queries. Some of the queries that you can run in Vertica in 2, 3, 4 seconds, will take minutes and sometimes hours in an RDBMS, like Oracle, like SQL Server. They have the capability to store that amount of data, no question, but the usability really lacks when you start querying tables that are 180 billion column, 180 billion rows rather of tables in Vertica that are over 1000 columns. Those will take hours to run on a traditional RDBMS and then running them in Vertica, I get my queries back in a sec. >> You know what's interesting to me, Joe and I wonder if you could comment, it seems that Vertica has done a good job of embracing, you know, riding the waves, whether it was HDFS and the big data in our early part of the big data era, the machine learning, machine intelligence. Whether it's, you know, TensorFlow and other data science tools, it seems like Vertica somehow in the cloud is the other one, right? A lot of times cloud is super disruptive, particularly to companies that started on-prem, it seems like Vertica somehow has been able to adopt and embrace some of these trends. Why, from your standpoint, first of all, from your standpoint, as a customer, is that true? And why do you think that is? Is it architectural? Is it true mindset engineering? I wonder if you could comment on that. >> It's absolutely true, I've started out again, on an on-prem Vertica data warehouse, and we kind of, you know, rolled kind of along with them, you know, more and more people have been using data, they want to make it accessible to people on the web now. And you know, having that, the option to provide that data from an on-prem solution, from AWS is key, and now Vertica is offering even a hybrid solution, if you want to keep some of your data behind a firewall, on-prem, and put some in the cloud as well. So data at Vertica has absolutely evolved along with the industry in ways that no other company really has that I've seen. And I think the reason for it and the reason I've stayed with Vertica, and specifically have remained at Vertica DBA for the last seven years, is because of the way Vertica stays in touch with it's persons. I've been working with the same people for the seven, eight years, I've been using Vertica, they're family. I'm part of their family, and you know, I'm good friends with some of these people. And they really are in tune not only with the customer but what they're doing. They really sit down with you and have those conversations about, you know, what are your needs? How can we make Vertica better? And they listen to their clients. You know, just having access to the data engineers who develop Vertica to be arranged on a phone call or whatnot, I've never had that with any other company. Vertica makes that available to their customers when they need it. So the personal touch is a huge for them. >> That's good, it's always good to get the confirmation from the practitioners, just not hear from the vendor. I want to ask you about the EON transition. You mentioned that MassMutual brought you in to help with that. What were some of the challenges that you faced? And how did you get over them? And what did, what is, why EON? You know, what was the goal, the outcome and some of the challenges maybe that you had to overcome? >> Right. So MassMutual had an interesting setup when I first came in. They had three different Vertica clusters to accommodate three different portions of their business. The data scientists who use the data quite extensively in very large queries, very intense queries, their work with their predictive analytics and whatnot. It was a separate one for the API's, which needed, you know, sub-second query response times. And the enterprise solution, they weren't always able to get the performance they needed, because the fast queries were being overrun by the larger queries that needed more resources. And then they had a third for starting to develop this enterprise data platform and started, you know, looking into their future. The first challenge was, first of all, bringing all those three together, and back into a single cluster, and allowing our users to have both of the heavy queries and the API queries running at the same time, on the same platform without having to completely separate them out onto different clusters. EON really helps with that because it allows to store that data in the S3 communal storage, have the main cluster set up to run the heavy queries. And then you can set up sub clusters that still point to that S3 data, but separates out the compute so that the API's really have their own resources to run and not be interfered with by the other process. >> Okay, so that, I'm hearing a couple of things. One is you're sort of busting down data silos. So you're able to have a much more coherent view of your data, which I would imagine is critical, certainly. Companies like MassMutual, have been around for 100 years, and so you've got all kinds of data dispersed. So to the extent that you can break down those silos, that's important, but also being able to I guess have granular increments of compute and storage is what I'm hearing. What does that do for you? It make that more efficient? Well, they are other business benefits? Maybe you could elucidate. >> Well, one cost is again, a huge benefit, the cost of running three different clusters in even AWS, in the enterprise solution was a little costly, you know, you had to have your dedicated servers here and there. So you're paying for like, you know, 12, 15 different servers, for example. Whereas we bring them all back into EON, I can run everything on a six-node production cluster. And you know, when things are busy, I can spin up the three-node top cluster for the API's, only paid for when I need them, and then bring them back into the main cluster when things are slowed down a bit, and they can get that performance that they need. So that saves a ton on resource costs, you know, you're not paying for the storage, you're paying for one S3 bucket, you're only paying for the nodes, these are two instances, that are up and running when you need them., and that is huge. And again, like you said, it gives us the ability to silo our data without having to completely separate our data into different storage areas. Which is a big benefit, it gives us the ability to query everything from one single cluster without having to synchronize it to, you know, three different ones. So this one going to have there's, this one going to have there's, but everyone's still looking at the same data and replicate that in QA and Devs so that people can do it outside of production and do some testing as well. >> So EON, obviously a very important innovation. And of course, Vertica touts the difference between others who separate huge storage, and you know, they're not the only one that does that, but they are really I think the only one that does it for on-prem, and virtually across clouds. So my question is, and I think you're doing a breakout session on the Virtual BDC. We're going to be in Boston, now we're doing it online. If I'm in the audience, I'm imagining I'm a junior DBA at an organization that maybe doesn't have a Joe. I haven't been an expert for seven years. How hard is it for me to get, what do I need to do to get up to speed on EON? It sounds great, I want it. I'm going to save my company money, but I'm nervous 'cause I've only been at Vertica DBA for, you know, a year, and I'm sort of, you know, not as experienced as you. What are the things that I should be thinking about? Do I need to bring in? Do I need to hire somebody? Do I need to bring in a consultant? Can I learn it myself? What would you advise? >> It's definitely easy enough that if you have at least a little bit of work experience, you can learn it yourself, okay? 'Cause the concepts are still there. There's some you know, little bits of nuances where you do need to be aware of certain changes between the Enterprise and EON edition. But I would also say consult with your Vertica Account Manager, consult with your, you know, let them bring in the right people from Vertica to help you get up to speed and if you need to, there are also resources available as far as consultants go, that will help you get up to speed very quickly. And we did work together with Vertica and with one of their partners, Clarity, in helping us to understand EON better, set it up the right way, you know, how do we take our, the number of shards for our data warehouse? You know, they helped us evaluate all that and pick the right number of shards, the right number of nodes to get set up and going. And, you know, helped us figure out the best ways to get our data over from the Enterprise Edition into EON very quickly and very efficient. So different with yourself. >> I wanted to ask you about organizational, you know, issues because, you know, the guys like you practitioners always tell me, "Look, the tech, technology comes and goes, that's kind of the easy part, we're good at that. It's the people it's the processes, the skill sets." What does your, you know, team regime look like? And do you have any sort of ideal team makeup or, you know, ideal advice, is it two piece of teams? Is it what kind of skills? What kind of interaction and communications to senior leadership? I wonder if you could just give us some color on that. >> One of the things that makes me extremely proud to be working for MassMutual right now, is that they do what a lot of companies have not been doing and that is investing in IT. They have put a lot of thought, a lot of money, and a lot of support into setting up their enterprise data platform and putting Vertica at the center. And not only did they put the money into getting the software that they needed, like Vertica, you know, MicroStrategy, and all the other tools that we were using to use that, they put the money in the people. Our managers are extremely supportive of us. We hired about 40 to 45 different people within a four-month time frame, data engineers, data analysts, data modelers, a nice mix of people across who can help shape your data and bring the data in and help the users use the data properly, and allow me as the database administrator to make sure that they're doing what they're doing most efficiently and focus on my job. So you have to have that diversity among the different data skills in order to make your team successful. >> That's awesome. Kind of a side question, and it's really not Vertica's wheelhouse, but I'm curious, you know, in the early days of the big data, you know, movement, a lot of the data scientists would complain, and they still do that, "80% of my time is spent wrangling data." The tools for the data engineer, the data scientists, the database, you know, experts, they're all different. And is that changing? And to what degree is that changing? Kind of what ending are we in and just in terms of a more facile environment for all those roles? >> Again, I think it depends on company to company, you know, what resources they make available to the data scientists. And the data scientists, we have a lot of them at MassMutual. And they're very much into doing a lot of machine learning, model training, predictive analytics. And they are, you know, used to doing it outside of Vertica too, you know, pulling that data out into Python and Scalars Bar, and tools like that. And they're also now just getting into using Vertica's in-database analytics and machine learning, which is a skill that, you know, definitely nobody else out there has. So being able to have one somebody who understands Vertica like myself, and being able to train other people to use Vertica the way that is most efficient for them is key. But also just having people who understand not only the tools that you're using, but how to model data, how to architect your tables, your schemas, the interaction between your tables and schemas and whatnot, you need to have that diversity in order to make this work. And our data scientists have benefited immensely from the struct that MassMutual put in place by our data management delivery team. >> That's great, I think I saw, somewhere in your background, that you've trained about 100 people in Vertica. Did I get that right? >> Yes, I've, since I started here, I've gone to our Boston location, our Springfield location, and our New York City location and trained, probably about this point, about 120, 140 of our Vertica users. And I'm trying to do, you know, a couple of follow-up sessions per year. >> So adoption, obviously, is a big goal of yours. Getting people to adopt the platform, but then more importantly, I guess, deliver business value and outcomes. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah, I wanted to ask you about encryption. You know, in the perfect world, everything would be encrypted, but there are trade offs. Are you using encryption? What are you doing in that regard? >> We are actually just getting into that now due to the New York and the CCPA regulations that are now in place. We do have a lot of Person Identifiable Information in our data store that does require encryption. So we are going through a month's long process that started in December, I think, it's actually a bit earlier than that, to start identifying all the columns, not only in our Vertica database, but in, you know, the other databases that we do use, you know, we have Postgres database, SQL Server, Teradata for the time being, until that moves into Vertica. And identify where that data sits, what downstream applications, pull that data from the data sources and store it locally as well, and starts encrypting that data. And because of the tight relationship between Voltage and Vertica, we settled on Voltages as the major platform to start doing that encryption. So we're going to be implementing that in Vertica probably within the next month or two, and roll it out to all the teams that have data that requires encryption. We're going to start rolling it out to the downstream application owners to make sure that they are encrypting the data as they get it pulled over. And we're also using another product for several other applications that don't mesh well as well with both. >> Voltage being micro, focuses encryption solution, correct? >> Right, yes. >> Yes, of course, like a focus for the audience's is the, it owns Vertica and if Vertica is a separate brand. So I want to ask you kind of close on what success looks like. You've been at this for a number of years, coming into MassMutual which was great to hear. I've had some past experience with MassMutual, it's an awesome company, I've been to the Springfield facility and in Boston as well, and I have great respect for them, and they've really always been a leader. So it's great to hear that they're investing in technology as a differentiator. What does success look like for you? Let's say you're at MassMutual for a few years, you're looking back, what success look like? Go. >> A good question. It's changing every day just, you know, with more and more, you know, applications coming onboard, more and more data being pulled in, more uses being found for the data that we have. I think success for me is making sure that Vertica, first of all, is always up made, is always running at its most optimal to keep our users happy. I think when I started, you know, we had a lot of processes that were running, you know, six, seven hours, some of them were taking, you know, almost a day long, because they were so complicated, we've got those running in under an hour now, some of them running in a matter of minutes. I want to keep that optimization going for all of our processes. Like I said, there's a lot of users using this data. And it's been hard over the first year of me being here to get to all of them. And thankfully, you know, I'm getting a bit of help now, I have a couple of system DBAs, and I'm training up to help out with these optimizations, you know, fixing queries, fixing projections to make sure that queries do run as quickly as possible. So getting that to its optimal stage is one. Two, getting our data encrypted and protected so that even if for whatever reasons, somehow somebody breaks into our data, they're not going to be able to get anything at all, because our data is 100% protected. And I think more companies need to be focusing on that as well. And third, I want to see our data science teams using more and more of Vertica's in-database predictive analytics, in-database machine learning products, and really helping make their jobs more efficient by doing so. >> Joe, you're awesome guest I mean, we always like I said, love having the practitioners on and getting the straight, skinny and pros. You're welcome back anytime, and as I say, I wish we could have met in Boston, maybe next year at the BDC. But it's great to have you online, and thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> And thank you for having me and hopefully we'll meet next year. >> Yeah, I hope so. And thank you everybody for watching that. Remember theCUBE is running concurrent with the Vertica Virtual BDC, it's vertica.com/bdc2020. If you want to check out all the keynotes, and all the breakout sessions, I'm Dave Volante for theCUBE. We'll be going. More interviews, for people right there. Thanks for watching. (bright music)

(funky guitar music) >> From our studios, in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, This is theCUBE conversation. >> Everyone welcome to this CUBE conversation here in Palo Alto, California CUBE studios, I'm John Furrier, the host of theCUBE. Were with CUBE alumni, special guest Amit Walia, President of Products & Marketing at Informatica. Amit, it's great to see you. It's been a while. It's been a couple of months, how's things? >> Good to be back as always. >> Welcome back. Okay, Informatica worlds is coming up, we have a whole segment on that but we have been covering you guys for a long long time, data is at the center of the value proposition again and again, it's more amplified now, the fog is lifting. >> Sure. >> And the world is now seeing what we were talking about four years ago. (giggles) >> Yeah. >> With data, what's new? What's the big trends that going on that you guys are doubling down on? What's new, what's changed? Give us the update. >> Sure. I think we have been talking the last couple of years, I think your right, data has becoming more and more important. I think, three things we see a lot. One is obviously, you saw this whole world of digital transformation. I think that has de faintly has picked up so much steam now. I mean, every company is going digital and obviously that creates a whole new paradigm shift for companies to carry out almost recreate themselves, rebuild them, so data becomes the new definition. And that's what we call those things you saw at Infomatica even before data3.org, but data is the center of everything, right? And you see the volume of data growth, you know, the utilization of data to make decisions, whether it's, you know, decisions on the shop floor, decisions basically related to cyber security or whatever it is. And the key to what you see different now is the whole AI assisted data management. I mean the scale of complexity, the scale of growth, you know, multi-cloud, multi-platform, all the stuff that is in front of us, it's really difficult to run the old way of doing things, so that's why we see one thing that we see a whole lot is AI is becoming a lot more mainstream, still early days but it's assisting the whole ability for companies, what I call, exploit data to really become a lot more transformative. >> You have been on this for a while, again we can go back to theCUBE archives, we can almost pull out clips from two years ago, be relevant today, you know, the data control, understanding >> Yeah. >> Understanding where the data governance is-- >> Sure. >> That's always a foundational thing but you guys nailed the chat bots, you have been doing AI was previous announcements, this is putting a lot of pressure on you, the president of the products, you got to get this out there. >> What's new? What's happening inside Informatica? pedaling as fast as you can? What is some of the updates? >> No. >> Gives us the-- >> The best example always is like a duck, right? Your really swimming and feel things are calm at the top and then you are really paddling. No, I think it's great for us. I think, I look at AI's, AI is like, there is so much FUD [fear, uncertainty and doubt] around it and machine learning AI. We look at it as two different ways. One is how we leverage machine learning within our products to help our customers. Making it easy for them, like I said, so many different data types, think of IOT data, unstructured data, streaming data, how do you bring all that stuff together and marry it with your existing transactional data to make sense. So, we're leveraging a lot of machine learning to make the internal products a lot more easier to consume, a lot more smarter, a lot more richer. The second thing is that, we're what we call it our AI, CLAIRE, which we unveiled, if you remember, a couple of years ago at the Informatica World. How that then helps our customers make smarter decisions, you know, in data science and all of these data workbenches, you know, the old statistical models is only as good as they can ever be. So, we leveraging helping our customers see the value proposition of our AI, CLAIRE, then to what I make things that, you know, find patterns, you know, statistical models cannot. So, to me I look at both of those really, leveraging ML to shape our products, which is where we do a lot of innovation and then creating our AI, CLAIRE, to help customers to make smarter decisions, easier decisions, complex decisions, which I called the humans or statistical models, really cannot. >> Well this is the balance with machines and humans. >> Right. >> working together, you guys have nailed this before and I'm, I think this was two years ago. I started to hear the words, land, adopt, expand, form you guys, right? Which is, you got to get adoption. >> Right. >> And so, as you're iterating on this product focus, you got to getting working, making secure your products-- >> Big, big maniacal focus on that one. >> So, tell me what you have learned there because that's a hard thing. >> Right. >> You guy are doing well at it. You got to get adoption, which means you got to listen customers, you got to do the course correction. >> Yeah. >> what's the learnings coming out of that piece of that. >> That's actually such a good point. We've made such, we've always been a customer centric company but as you said, like, as whole world shifted towards a new subscription cloud model, we've really focused on helping our customers adopt our products and you know, in this new world, customers are struggling with new architectures and everything, so we doubled down on what we called customer success. Making sure we can help our customers adopt the products and by the way it's to our benefit. Our customers get value really quickly and of course we believe in what we call a customer for life. Our ability to then grow with our customers and help them deliver value becomes a lot better. So, we really focused, so, we have globally across the board customers, success managers, we really invest in our customers, the moment a customer buys a product from us, we directly engage with them to help them understand for this use case, how you implement the product. >> It's not just self service, that's one thing that I appreciate 'cause I know how hard it is to build products these days, especially with the velocity of change but it's also when you have a large scale data. >> Yeah. >> You need automation, you got to have machine learning, you got to have these disciplines. >> Sure. >> And this is both on your end and but also on the customer. >> Yes. >> Any on the updates on the CLAIRE and some customer learnings you're seeing that are turning into use cases or best practices, what are some of them? >> So many of them. So take a simple example, right? I mean, we think of, we take these things for granted, right? I mean, take note, we don't talk about IOB these days right? All these cell cells, we were streaming data, right? Or even robots on the shop floor. So much of that data has no schema, no structure, no definition, it's coming, right? Netflix data and for customers there is a lot of volume in it, a lot of it could be junk, right? So, how do you first take that volume of data? Create some structure to it for you to do analytics. You can only do analytics if you put some structure to it, right? So, first thing is I've leverage CLAIRE, we help our customers to create, what I call, schema and you can create some structure to it. Then what we do allow is basically CLAIRE through CLAIRE, it can naturally bring what we have the data quality on top of it, like how much of it is irrelevant, how much of it is noise, how much of it really makes sense, so, then, as you said it, signal from the noise We are helping our customers get signal from the noise of data. That's where it AI comes very handy because it's very manual, cumbersome, time consuming and sometimes very difficult to do. So, that's a area we have leveraged creating structure and data quality on top and finding rules that didn't naturally probably didn't exist, that you and me wouldn't be able to see. Machines are able to do it and to your point, our belief is, this is my 100% belief, we believe AI assisting the humans. We have given the value of CLAIRE to our users, so it complements you and that's where we are trying to help our users get more productive and deliver more value to you faster. >> Productivity is multifold, it's like, also, efficiency, people wasting time on project that can be automated, so you can focus that valuable resource somewhere else. >> Yeah. >> Okay, let's shift gears onto Informatica World coming up. Let's spend some time on that. What's the focus this year, the show, it's coming up, right around the corner, what's going to be the focus? What's going to be the agenda? What's on the plate? >> Give you a quick sense on how it's shape up, it's probably going to be our Informatica World. So, it's 20th year, again back in Waze, you know, we love Waze of course. We have obviously, a couple of days lined up over there, I know you guys will be there too. A great set of speakers. Obviously, we will have me on stage, speakers like, we'll have some, the CEO of Google Cloud, Thomas Kurian is going to be there, we'll have on the main stage with Anil, we'll have the CEO of Databricks, Ali, with me, we'll also have CMO of AWS, Ariel, there, then we have a couple of customers lined up, Simon from Credit Suisse, Daniel is the CDO of Nissan, we also have the Head of AI, Simon Guggenheimer from Microsoft as well as the Chief Product Officer of Tableau, Francois Ajenstat, so, we have a great line up of speakers, customers and some of our very very strategic partners with us. If you remember last year, We also had Scott Guthrie there main stage. 80 plus sessions, pretty much 90% lead by customers. We have 70 to 80 customers presenting. >> Technical sessions or going to be a Ctrack? >> Technical, business, we have all kinds of tracks, we have hands on labs, we have learnings, customers really want to learn our products, talk with the experts, some want to the product managers, some want to talk to the engineers, literally so many hands on labs, so, it's going to be a full blown couple of days for us. >> What's the pitch for someone watching that never been Informatica World? Why should they come for the show? >> I'll always tell them three things. Number one is that, it's a user conference for our customers to learn all things about data management and of course in that context they learn a lot about. So, they learn a lot about the industry. So, day one we kick it off by market perspectives. We are giving a sense on how the market is going, how everybody is stepping back from the day to and understanding, where are these digital transformation, AI, where is all the world of data going. We've got some great annalists coming, talkings, some customers talking, we are talking about futures over there. Then it is all about hands on learning, right?, learning about the product. Hearing from some of these experts, right?, from the industry experts as well as our customers, teaching what to do and what not to do and networking, it's always go to network, right, it's a great place for people to learn from each other. So, it's a great forum for all those three things but the theme this year is all about AI. I talked about CLAIRE, I'll in fact our tagline this year is, Clarity Unleashed. We really want, basically, AI has been developing over the last couple of years, it's becoming a lot more mainstream, for us in our offerings and this year we're really taking it mainstream, so, it's kind of like, unleashing it for everybody can genuinely use it, truly use it, for the day to day data management activities. >> Clarity is a great theme, I mean, it plays on CLAIRE but this is what we're starting to see some visiblility into some clear >> Yeah. >> Economic benefits, business benefits. >> Yep. >> Technical benefits, >> Yep. >> Kind of all starting to come in. How would you categorize those three areas because you know, generally that's the consensus these days that what was once a couple years ago was, like, foggy when you see, now you're starting to see that lift, you're seeing economic, business and technical benefits. >> To me it's all about economic and business. So, technology plays a role in driving value for the business, right, I'm a full believer in that, right, and if you think about some of the trends today, right, a billion users are coming into play that will be assisted by AI. Data is doubling every year, you know the volume of data, >> Yep. >> The amount of, and I always say business users today, I mean, I run a business, I want, I always say, tomorrow data, yesterday to make a decision today. It's just in time and that's where AI comes into play. So our goal is to help organizations transform themselves, truly be more productive, reduce operation cost, by the way governance and compliance, that's becoming such a mainstream topic. It's not just basically making analytical decisions. How do you make sure your data is safe and secure, you don't want to get basically get hit by all of these cyber attacks, they're all are coming after data. So, governance, compliance of data that's becoming very, so, those-- >> Again you guys are right on the data thing. >> Yeah. >> I want to get your reaction, you mentioned some stats. >> Sure. >> I've got some stats here. Data explosion, 15.3 zettabytes per year >> Yeah, in global traffic. >> Yeah. >> 500 million business data users and growing 20 billion in connected devices, one billion workers will be assisted by machine learning, so, thanks for plugging those stats but I want to get your reaction to some of these other points here. 80% of enterprises are looking at multicloud, their really evaluating where the data sits in that equation >> Sure. And the other thing is the responsibility and role of the Chief Data Officer >> Yes. >> These are new dynamics, I think you guys will be addressing that into the event. >> Absolutely, absolutely. >> Because organizational dynamics, skill gaps are issues but also you have multicloud. So your thoughts on those to. >> That's a big thing, look at, in the old world, John, Hidrantes is always still in large enterprises, right, and it's going to stay here. In fact I think it's not just cloud, think of it this way, on-premise is still here, it's not going a way. It's reducing in scope but then you have this multicloud world, SAS apps, PAS apps, infrastructure, if I'm a customer, I want to do all of it but the biggest problem is that my data is everywhere, how do I make sense of it and then how do I govern it, like my customer data is sitting somewhere in this SAS app, in that platform, on this on-prem application transaction app I'm running, how do I connect the three and how do I make sense it doesn't get, I can have a governance control around it. That's when data management becomes more important but more complex but that's why AI comes in to making it easier. What are the things we've seen a lot, as you touched upon, is the rise of CDO. In fact we have Daniel from Nissan, she is the CDO of Nissan North America, on main stage, talking about her role and how they have leveraged data to transform themselves. That is something we're seeing a lot more because you know, the role of the CDO is making sure that is not only a sense of governance and compliance, a sense of how do we even understand the value of data across an enterprise. Again, I see, one of the things we going to talk about is system thinking around data. We call it System Thinking 3.0, data is becoming a platform. See, there was OSA-D hardware layer whether it is server, or compute, we believe that data is becoming a platform in itself. Whether you think about it in terms of scale, in terms of governance, in terms of AI, in terms of privacy, you have to think of data as a platform. That's the other big thing. >> I think that is a very powerful statement and I like to get your thoughts, we had many conversations on camera, off camera, around product, Silicon Valley, Venture Capital, how can startups create value. On of the old antigens use to be, build a platform, that's your competitive strategy, you were a platform company and that was a strategic competitive advantage. >> Yes. >> That was unique to the company, they created enablement, Facebook is a great example. >> Yeah. >> They monetized all the data from the users, look where they are. >> Sure. >> If you think about platforms today. >> Sure. >> It seems to be table steaks, not as a competitive advantage but more of a foundational. >> Sure. >> Element of all businesses. >> Yeah. >> Not just startups and enterprises. This seems to be a common thread, do you agree with that, that platforms becoming table steaks, 'cause of if we have to think like systems people >> Mm-hmm. >> Whether it's an enterprise. >> Sure. >> Or a supplier, then holistically the platform becomes table steaks on premer or cloud. Your reaction to that. Do you agree? >> No, I think I agree. I'll say it slightly differently, yes. I think platform is a critical component for any enterprise when they think of their end to end technology strategy because you can't do piece meals otherwise you become a system integrator of your own, right? But it's no easy to be a platform player itself, right, because as a platform player, the responsibility of what you have to offer your customer becomes a lot bigger. So, we obviously has this intelligent data platform but the other thing is that the rule of the platform is different too. It has to be very modular and API driven. Nobody wants to buy a monolithic platform. I don't want to, as a enterprise, I don't buy all now, I'm going to implement five years of platform. You want it, it's going to be like a Lego block, okay you, it builds by itself. Not monolithic, very API driven, maybe microservices based and that's our belief that in the new world, yes, platform is very critical for to accelerate your transformational journeys or data driven transformational journeys but the platform better be API driven, microservices based, very nimble that is not a percussor to value creation but creates value as you go along. >> It's all, kind of up to, depends on the customer it could have a thin foundational data platform, from you guys for instance, then what you're saying, compose. >> Of different components. >> On whatever you need. >> For example you have data integration platform, you can do data quality on top, you can do master data management on top, you can provide governance, you can provide privacy, you can do cataloging, it all builds. >> Yeah. >> It's not like, oh my gosh, I have go do all these things over the course of five years, then I get value. You got to create value all along. >> Yeah. >> Today's customers want value like, in two months, three months, you don't want to wait for a year or two. >> This is the excatly the, I think, the operating system, systems mindset. >> Yes. >> You were referring too, this is kind of how enterprises are behaving now. There is the way you see on-premise, >> Yep. >> Thinking around data, cloud, multicloud emerging, it's a systems view distributed computing, with the right Lego blocks. >> That's what our belief is. That's what we heard from customers. See our, I spend most of my time talking to customers and are we trying to understand what customers want today and you know, some of this latent demands that they have, sometimes can't articulate, my job, I always end up on the road most of the time, just hearing customers, that's what they want. They want exactly to your point, a platform that builds, not monolithic, but they do want a platform. They do want to make it easy for them not to do everything piece meal. Every project is a data project. Whether it's a customer experience project, whether it's a governance project, whether it's nothing else but a analytical project, it's a data project. You don't repeat it every time. That's what they want. >> I know you got a hard stop but I want to get your thoughts on this because I have heard the word, workload, mentioned so many more times in the past year, if there was a tag cloud of all theCUBE conversations where the word workload was mentioned, it would be the biggest font. (laughs) >> Yes. >> Workload has been around for a while but now you are seeing more workloads coming on. >> Yeah. >> That's more important for data. >> Yes. >> Workloads being tied into data. >> Absolutely. >> And then sharing data across multiple workloads, that's a big focus, do you see that same thing? >> We absolutely see that and the unique thing we see also is that newer workloads are being created and the old workloads are not going away, which is where the hybrid becomes very important. See, we serve large enterprises and their goal is to have a hybrid. So, you know, I'm running a old transaction workload order here, I want to have a experimental workload, I want to start a new workload, I want all of them to talk to each other, I don't want them to become silos and that's when they look to us to say connect the dots for me, you can be in the cloud, as an example, our cloud platform, you know last time, we talked about a 5 trillion transactions a month, today is double that, eight to ten trillion transactions a month. Growing like crazy but our traditional workload is also still there so we connect the dots for our customers. >> Amit, thank you for coming on sharing your insights, obviously you guys are doing well. You've got 300,000 developers, billions in revenue, thanks for coming on, appreciate the insight and looking forward to your Informatica World. >> Thank you very much. >> Amit Walia here inside theCUBE, with theCUBE conversation, in Palo Alto, thanks for watching.

>> Live, from New York City, it's theCUBE. Covering Lenovo Transform 2.0. Brought to you by, Lenovo. (electronic music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Lenovo Transform, here in New York City. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost Stu Miniman. We have two guests here on this segment, We have Kirk Skaugen, he is the president of Lenovo Data Center Group, and Brad Anderson, the Corporate Vice President of Enterprise Mobility for NetApp. Thanks for coming on the program. >> Thank you for having us. >> So the big news of the day, the NetApp Lenovo partnership, explain to our viewers exactly what this means. These are two global powerhouses joining forces. >> Yeah sure, so I think Lenovo has had an amazing year. Last year in our Transform 1.0 we announced the largest server portfolio in our history. And this year we announced the largest data center, data management storage portfolio in our history. With a partnership with NetApp, so we're creating a multi-billion dollar global alliance, a multi-year alliance and it has a place in a joint venture in China as well as we'll be distributing NetApp products in over 160 countries in the world. >> So tell us about the background to this partnership. How did it come about? >> Well, you know, for NetApp we were looking for expanding our reach, and there was two markets that were kind of underserved in. One being kind of the commercial SMB SME channel, and Lenovo has a high-velocity channel there, a strong position. So Lenovo made complete sense in that space as well as in China, where we have a strong brand but we're underserved there as well, so who is better in China than Lenovo? So for us this is all about global market and then the fact that they're a server vendor is just icing on the cake, because the other two server vendors in the marketplace are also our competitors. And then, Lenovo is so much more compatible and complementary to our entire business. >> Kirk, maybe you could spend a little more, because when you look at storage today, storage is really built on servers. You know, NetApp is, you know, at it's heart a software company, even back in the day NetApp was never, some of the other storage companies spent a lot of time and money on the hardware pieces. And of course had reliable, good, trustable hardware, but maybe explain how much, kind of, I.P. goes into this partnership. >> Yeah, sure. So I think today we have about 15 percent coverage of the overall storage market within Lenovo. We've grown our flash array business over 100 percent over the last four quarters. IDC had us at 30% quarter to quarter growth. So we've done well, but we've only cover 15% of the market. After this announcement, and shipping now today, we'll cover over 90% of the market in more than 160 countries. So we're using our global supply chain which is ranked number five in the world by Garner. Manufacturing in Europe, in China, in Mexico et cetera. Really expand this out through our channel partnership program. And in China we're taking a very unique approach to this joint venture. This isn't about taking global products and just trying to force fit them into China. China has unique software solutions, unique hyper scale requirements. So we're pooling our R and D there. Lenovo will be a 51% owner, NetApp a 49% owner. Brad's going to be on the board and there we're going to be delivering products in China for China. >> Yeah, is it, you've got a lot of experience with that. You talk about coming in the future there's an NFV software and hardware solution in China, so Lenovo has some experience doing this kind of engagement, you know. >> Yeah, I think we have a more than 50% growth now, year on year in China. We retooled a lot of the operations that we had there. We have a really nice, broad portfolio now since we launched Think System and Think Agile so it's a nice place to grow on. But today we talked about the joint venture with NetApp and also the fact that over the next year we'll be building out a telecom NFV company after having China Mobile and China Telecom with us as at Mobile World Congress. As well as new edge gateway and edge server solutions. >> Brad, I know cloud is in your title for what you are doing, when I hear NetApp talking, I see NetApp at all the cloud shows we go to. It's a very different world than when I think about NetApp ten years or twenty years ago as like, you know, the Nas Filer company. So bring us up to speed of kind of the NetApp today the momentum and what this brings. >> Yeah, I mean we are going through our own transformation where we were principally a storage company and now we want to be a data company, and increasingly to be a data company you got to be a cloud company. And so, we continue to develop what we think are the, you know, the best storage products in the world, but they are all cloud connected. 'Cause we want data to be able to flow from prim to cloud and customers be able to, you know. That's what really kind of fuels these digital enterprises is that data is the new oil. And so in doing that we have kind of expanded NetApp's charter significantly to being the data authority in hybrid cloud. Hybrid being both the private and the public. And so part of my business is really focused on providing products and solutions so customers can have the same experience in building their own private clouds that they enjoy in the public. And then on the public side we have partnerships with all the hyper scalers to put NetApp's in there so they can deliver native cloud data services. And so, this is a very different company where we're getting more and more cloudy every day. (Rebecca laughs). And that's part of our transformation intentionally. >> So, the transformation, it's the theme of this conference and you were up on the main stage talking about Lenovo's turning this corner and really accelerating its growth, and also talking about the transformation from within the company. Changing the look of the leadership team in particular. Can you tell our viewers a little bit more about that strategy. >> Sure, so we acquired the IBM system X business in late 2014 and we did some things really well and we did some things that we've learned from. So we spent, you know, basically the last 18 months transforming the whole company. New channel programs, new system integrator partnerships, new training certifying over 11,000 people in the world now. Tripling the number of our solution recipes. And we have transformed The management team as well. We have replaced about 19 executives because we wanted the right balance of external and internal perspectives from our competitors as well as from ex-Lenovo and ex-IBM employees. So we feel like we have a very customer-centric organization now and, again, Gardner now is saying we are growing 49% year on year in units, IDC said we are growing 87% year on year in revenues. So I think customers are responding to the new product line. Over the last year the Think System brand truly meant the highest customer performance, the highest reliability, the highest customer satisfaction. And as a result it does take a while to transform. And I think that over the last 12 months you've seen that and we're exponentially growing now as a company. >> And you see it in your results. I mean, they are outstanding. >> So Brad, bring us inside the products a little bit. So we've got, it's the Think System DE and DM. Of course the storage industry very much, they need to trust it, they need to understand it. Gives little to understand, I believe DE maybe has something to do with the >> The E series >> The E series there and tell us the DM series, what's underneath there and how do people understand what's different and what's the same. >> Yeah, I mean the. We're taking platforms across our E series, our FAS and our all flash arrays. So the DE corresponds to the E series. The DM will have our FAS products as well as our all flash array products in there. So that's kind of the mapping. We're putting initially I think, ten products in there. We have the capacity to expand and I'm sure we're going to learn a lot because these are serving markets that NetApp doesn't typically serve. So I think not only is this going to give Lenovo the tools to compete, it's going to give us a lot of information to even build better products, better solutions for both NetApp and our Lenovo customers. So we're super excited about that. The second thing is, it's OnTab, it's the same core software, and all the value and performance testing and validation you get with NetApp. That all goes into the Lenovo branded products as well. And we have made it one of our hallmarks is our data fabric. All of the data services that are on top of this that you can move data and manage data between platforms, that is really important for the NetApp customer. All those values extend to the Lenovo customer. So if they also have NetApp in their environment, or vice-versa, they can share or move data between both those platforms. So that's, nowhere else in the industry is that possible across vendors let alone within. >> So how does it work when you are in the product development process. Two companies, both relentlessly focused on customers. This is part of your culture, part of your DNA. So how do you work together in terms of innovating and collaborating. >> Well, I think the first thing is you just look at the core business: our server business and NetApp branded storage, or Lenovo branded storage based on NetApp's portfolio. We're going to have a better together solution. So the first thing we're looking at is a set of solution recipes so that when you use NetApp and Lenovo together, you're going to get a better experience as a customer base. So that's why I am excited today. We've launched three times as many engineered solutions as we did a year ago. And trained these 11,000 people because we have a very solution oriented sales force and a very complementary channel. From a development perspective, we're going to be building X Clarity management into our portfolio. So the same systems management software that is mission critical for Lenovo server products will now manage the big system DE and DM products. So it's a very familiar management interface for customers, there's an engineering effort gone with that. And then on service and support, we're going to use over 10,000 people around the world that Lenovo has to go service and support these products. So we can deliver a premium customer experience. Whether you're buying the server or the storage. And back to the customer base: we're going to, especially in China, have deep engineering collaborations. Where we're walking into those customer bases and asking what's unique about the China market. >> And, and. It really helps that the two companies are very complementary. So NetApp has deep storage expertise, Lenovo has tremendous compute expertise. So they are very complementary and as customers want more and more complete solutions, we are learning, our engineers are learning from each other and it doesn't hurt the fact that we have a large engineering. We NetApp, have a large engineering population in the research triangle where Kirk's people are at. >> That's right. We're probably one kilometer away from each other in research triangle park. >> Geography matters, location location location. >> No, and our two support organizations are next door as well. So I think that proximity will only contribute to the collaboration. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Alright, so the storage industry actually has a relatively good track record of some deep, long partnerships. NetApp has had a number of them over the years. Tell us, what does success look like if we look back three years from now, what's this partnership. >> Well, what we said publicly is we plan to have a multi-billion dollar, multi-year alliance. So that's going to be fantastic as we grow in over 160 countries. We're going to use Lenovo's extensive supply chain network. So you know as one of the largest kind of procurers of componentry and things around the world, we get to leverage this global factory network to build even more value into that situation. And in China specifically, we've set a goal of being a top three storage player. So we both have probably single digit share in China but together with this collaboration we are setting sights quite high to be in the top three over the next several years. >> I think that's exactly right and I think those are all achievable goals. But right now, we want to get out the gate fast. I mean this is a partnership with two companies with a lot of momentum and I see this as a huge opportunity for both our companies to kind of amplify that momentum near term. And so while there's a lot of excitement on the future, I think success is going to look like, you know, some very exciting results that Kirk can share at Transform 3.0 next year. >> That's right. And for our customer base, we have already gone into production. Taking orders, as of today and tons of engineering, tons of manufacturing development. So we'll have a whole host of seed units and early access units. Our customers can get their hands on this stuff right away and start testing it in their environment. >> As you said, it is an audacious vision. You announced an audacious vision last year, you did another one again this year. So when you think about what you want to be talking about next year. You said what success looks like. What are some other things that you're working on? You said, this is a process, Lenovo has turned the corner and it's got a lot of momentum. But what else are you, what else do you have on tap that you're... >> Well, if we tell all of you that, (Rebecca laughs) we won't have this here next year. >> Yeah >> But I think today is about entry and midrange. About expanding Lenovo's breadth from 15 to 90% of the market and being very aggressive against our top competitors that have a combined server storage portfolio. And I think as I've gone around the world, I've been in Latin America, in India, our channel partners are incredibly excited about this. So I think while other customers might be taking business more direct, we've traditionally been very channel-centric. So, I've seen a lot of pull for choice in the market and I think that's what we're going to deliver to our channel partners. But we will have a lot more in store, that I can promise you. This is phase one of a multi-phase, multi-year plan. >> I think there's a lot of things, there's a lot of possibilities on the product development side and how we can do better products, but I think a lot of success is going to look, it's going to come in our global market. Already, Kirk, since I've been here, I've had a channel partner come up and said "Hey, this makes me rethink my channel partners all over again", because now that channel partner who's a Lenovo has the full breadth of the storage portfolio. So I think this is going to be really good for both of us. Particularly when, you know, Lenovo and NetApp are both very channel friendly partners and companies and I think this I going to be a catalyst to have more people on our side than ever before. >> Kirk, just last thing, just give you the opportunity to talk about some of the other breadth and choice and other things that Lenovo has going on. We're going to talk to some of your team about, you know, hyper converge and hyper scale and other hyper things, but yeah. (Rebecca laughs) >> Well I think the good news about our growth now is that we're doing it across multiple segments in the industry. There isn't just one part of the market that growing. So last year we set an audacious goal of being the largest supercomputer company in the world by 2020. We've now crossed that actually this year. So we are the largest supercomputer company in the world. About one in every four supercomputers now are there. And we're expanding that into a lot of AI offerings as well with our four artificial intelligence centers, from China, Germany, Taipei, Beijing. All having customers bring their AI workloads into a controlled environment with our partners where there's intel and video or the FGBA vendors. So super-computing is alive and well and we continue to innovate with our warm-water cooling technology that's going to be here on display. We think we're building one of the largest supercomputers in Europe right now using that technology. So not just helping solve global warming but being more energy-efficient while we are computing on that as well. In hyper scale we've grown to about delivering six of the top ten hyper scalers products. And we're doing that through, basically starting with a white sheet of paper with our customers and building more than thirty customized products. In the motherboard, in the system, in putting it through our entire supply chain. Versus just, in the past maybe two years ago, maybe just leveraging ODM products, so. Significant growth in hyper scale where we're bringing on new billion dollar customers on a regular basis now. And then in flash arrays, our traditional business, we were over 100% growth year on year. So we're building off of momentum. We had great products but only covering 15% of the market, now much larger. Last but not least, we did announce since Transform, new divisions in embedded and IoT as well as in telecommunications NFVF software. We think each of those can be billion dollar groups within Lenovo, so that's probably a lot of what we would be talking about next year is announcements and innovations we've had. Would be Transform 3.0 probably. (Rebecca laughs) >> Well, we're already looking forward to the next Transform. >> 3.0 will be CUBEd so we look forward to that. >> Stu, very nice. Very nice. Excellent. Well thank you so much Brad and Kirk for being on the show, I really appreciate it. >> Thank you very much. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. We will have more from Lenovo Transform and theCUBE's live coverage, just after this. (intense electronic music)

>> Announcer.: From Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2018. Brought to you by the CloudNative Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, and welcome back. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage of KubeCon 2018 in Europe, part of the CNCF, Cloud Native Compute Foundation, part of the Linux Foundation. I'm John Furrier with my cohost Lauren Cooney. Our next guest is Dirk Hohndel, Vice President, Chief Open Source Officer for VMware. Great to see you. CUBE alumni, welcome back. >> Thank you, good to be here. >> So you had a keynote, smashing success today on stage, about open source, all five minutes of it, congratulations. (laughing) Take a minute to explain, I have some specific questions on VMWare, office of the CTO, how you guys are working on some really interesting things. But first, take a minute to explain, the VMware approach to open source that you're leading. What's the architecture of it, how is it organized, can you take a minute to explain-- >> Sure. >> The VMware? >> So we use open source components in literally every single one of our products, and we have a structure where each of the BUs is engaged in open source in the components that they're using, in projects that are related to the business, and they have a central organization that sits in the office of the CTO that I run, so the open source program office, which has much more of a focus of pure open source work. Focused on up stream, focus on the problems that the community sees much more than something that is product driven. I also own the whole compliance work that everyone needs to do to make sure that you follow the licenses and all that. But, fundamentally the balance between having the central organization that has maybe the center of expertise and has people who do open source and nothing but open source, and on the other hand bringing that expertise into the BU. Bring it closer to the products, and engaging across the company. We have more than 7,000 software engineers across the company and we want every single one of them to be mindful and understanding of how open source works, and how we are engaged in that space. >> And how many people, just some stats, can you share, by the numbers, how many people are on the teams, R&D, there's also in the CTO office. How many folks are on your team roughly speaking? >> So I have currently, I want to say, this is quick, 20 some odd people under me, but across the company it's a lot more. There are several hundred people who are, in their daily work engaged with open source all the time. >> That's great. >> So your team is centralized in the business units. Go ahead. >> No, that's great. I was going to say, what is it look like for people that want to contribute code that aren't on your team? Is there a process that's pretty easy to go through? Or can they just put it on GitHub? We would all like that but. >> Yeah so, we have an internal tool that we've developed they simply can request to contribute to an existing project and it goes through a very quick review and depending on the topic, this is typically a two day turnaround time, where they get approval from the BU VP and from me. And if you want to open source a project, so if you have something internal that you've done, that you want to bring out into the community, it's little more complicated with naming, and branding and what not. A lot more people need to nod basically, but it still takes usually a couple of weeks-- >> Yeah. >> And it goes through. But it's an automated process, it's driven by a PM out of my organization. >> That's great. >> And it tries to make it really, really easy. One of my big goals joining VMware was to remove friction out of this process, and to encourage people to engage with the projects that are out there, but also for us to bring software into the open that we've developed, for example internal tools, and make them useful for other people. >> Definitely, I think that's great. >> You mentioned open source models about people, can you elaborate on that because I think this is an important point, we were talking before we came on, about that role of people. >> Well, so open source is... People think of this as a software development methodology, and it is, but fundamentally it's a social phenomenon. It's this experiment of saying the way we do our work is based on relationships. It's based on trust. So I trust you that you've reviewed this code and I take that code that you've reviewed. I know that you are the expert in this area so if I make changes in this area I'll send them to you and ask for your review. It's all about relationships. And these relationships are between people, not between companies. So in so many ways, the role travels with the person, and not with the company. And we have seen this in many cases, where people move from company to company, but the work, their influence, the role comes with them. So it's very much empowering for the engineers. But it's also from a purely human perspective, an engagement where, it's not just about the code that you write, but it's about how you treat people. How you engage with them. This is why conferences like this are so wonderful. There are 4,000 people here, 4,500 people here, and you meet people whom, with whom you've been emailing for years. And this social aspect of this for an introvert like myself, is at the same time a little scary, but also it's super exciting because it is people who are driving this industry. >> John: The face to face connections really make a difference. >> I think it's the community. I mean the community always comes first, I think. I will say this, you build a community, you don't launch one, and I think that's absolutely critical. And I think, can you talk about some of the changes in mentality that you're working with across VMware right now with getting that community first sort of thing moving? >> Well, so, I mean, VMware is a very engineering centric organization. We are driven, we're founded by engineers and driven by engineers, I mean Pat Gelsinger our CEO was an engineer, and so the underlying ethos of contribution and of trying to fix problems and if you see something you go and fix it, that is something that has always been there at VMware, but what I've been trying to bring in to VMware is much more of an up-stream focus. An understanding of, it's not just important that you understand the technology well and you use it well, but also that you contribute back. And that you are seen as playing a big role in this industry. And if you look at the impact that VMware has had in the broader open source community, and how we have shifted our approach to being part of this over the last two years, I think it's been extremely successful. And you can see this with our footprint here, how many talks we have here, and how much presence we have here. I think there's 70 VMware employees at KubeCon this year. >> That's great. >> It's now cultural, it's a Tier One, I'll say Tier One role, not Tier Two when we were growing up in the industry, but part of the business software define, infrastructure, software is taking over the world as Mark Andress said is happening. Open source is there powering it. So I have to ask you the question, that would be on my mind if I'm thinking about going all in as a company, if I'm an enterprise. Hey, you know what, I like this approach. I'm going to go all in. Complete commitment. What's the best practice, what's your advice, because this is something people are talking about doing not just putting a toe in the water going all in and committing to an open source business model with their company. What's your advice for shepherding that process, cultural ethos. What's your take? >> It starts with language. It starts with how you talk about what you're doing. I hear a lot of people saying things like, "Oh, I consume open source," well it bugs me because you consume a commodity. You consume electricity, you don't care where it comes from it's just a plug in the wall. Whatever, right? Open source is always around, about the people. It's always about how do people work. How do they think about security, about releases, about maintenance? What's their work flow? And you can't just consume an open source component, you need to engage with them, you need to understand how their work affects your work. And so my recommendation is always, start with your own language. Start with the approach that you're taking when you're talking about all this. And then figure out, where are you using it, how are you using it, what are the changes that you've made to the components that you're using? How about contributing those changes back? It's a very simple first step to engage. And it's actually a step that makes total business sense because if you have your private branches, your private patches, the next time the upstream project goes through a new release, you need to port these changes, that costs money. So it's actually cheaper to simply contribute them back and have them maintained by the project. And you can use upstream, or you have a minimum set of small adjustments that don't make sense to return to the community. And this is really how you get your toe into the water. Because now you're not just a user of this, you're engaged, you're a contributor. >> You're operationalizing your business. >> Yes, you are, and then the next step is thinking about what of my internal tool sets that maybe are not my core product, but are the things that we build to build the product as part of our workflow. What of those could be used for the product community? So at VMware, for example, we built a software design system, it's called Clarity, and you can use it to create angular-based JavaScript UIs. So we use this for all of our products. We made this tool an open source tool and it's massively successful project, has weekly releases, has a ton of users, a very very active community. And it's one of those cases where you take something that isn't the core of your business, but you are earning your chops in the community. And take it one step at a time and broaden-- >> John: That's the trust relationship you're building? >> That is very much this trust relationship. And it's this track record that you're building of not only doing something, oh here's this old product and I'll open source it and then I walk away. So we call this dump and run right? You throw it over the wall, it's now open source and then you say, customer you're now on your own because it's now open source. >> It's abandoned no one's paying attention. >> Yeah that's a terrible model, but a very good model is one where you think about creating these relationships and creating a track record of being there every week, looking at the bug reports, looking at the issues, looking at the pull requests, and engaging with the people out there. And the value that this creates, the amount of value that you're getting from your outside contributor, very quickly outweighs the additional cost that it takes to get this IP clean and released and all that. >> And then there is documentation and documentation is a tremendous amount of heavy lifting on the inside of a company. But if you can spread it over an open source product that you have, it's great. And it's a really good way for people to start out in open source, I find. >> And you just said open source product, so this one of those things-- >> Project. >> Where, yeah. This is something that I think is where we come back to language being so important. I always talk to the folks internally about this distinction. What is the open source project? What is it, what the community does, what lives on GitHub or what lives in the public side of this? And then what is your product that is based on this project? And in your thinking always keep these two separate. Understand that everything that happens in the project is what is publicly available and what is done in conjunction with your community. >> John: With the team. >> Versus your product which focuses on how does the customer use this. Because open source projects, in and of themselves, are typically built by developers for developers. And the end user has actually different needs. And this is where the business model come in and that's kind of closing the question that you just asked, because the value that the company is providing this space is the understanding of the customer needs. And is the ability to take something that is creating enormous and impressive innovation, which is the community, and taking this to a place where then someone can use it in production. Where it's scales, where it's secure, where it has Day-One and Day-Two operationalization, where it has strong documentation. There is a support number you can call. All these things that a customer is-- >> John: Needs. >> Needs and that an open source project by themselves is unlikely to create. >> It's like putting money in the bank. You can't just take money out of the bank. You've got to deposit good will. The give-get is part of that project and you're saying make the product focus on the customer problems. >> Dirk: Absolutely. >> My question is are you talking kind of about a services wrapper that you put around it and maybe a couple of additional features? In part, or what are you actually kind of, just to get to the crux of it. >> So there are many different ways, many different business models around open source. For us, we are still an enterprise software company. So open source generally provides components of what we do. It may be the API that the customer is asking for. So today, Kubernetes is a set of APIs a lot of people want to use as their way to provide a container service for the orchestration, right? But what is the underlying infrastructure? How do you generate a persistent storage? A flexible networking infrastructure that can grow and shrink as your work loads grow and shrink? How do you manage your individual nodes? How do you deal with internal billings so that you can bill your data center time to your departments? And all these operational aspects are things that we're trying to solve with our products. But we offer to the customer an open source based API. So that's where our business value lies fundamentally. >> Lauren: Okay. >> Communities are a concept that's premised on create value before you capture it. And I think what you're saying is, if you have a project, you better bring something to the table, not just distract. It's a taker. >> Yes. >> If you're just taking all the time, it's not a good trust relationship building, that's what I hear you saying. >> And you will also not be successful because your customer needs, as your customers are coming to you and they're running into issues, you need to be able to address those issues. Which means you need to be productive part of that community. You need to have the in-depth understanding to then help them. >> I've seen people do things like they couldn't get a business model going so they say, "Oh we're just going to open source it, "and hope that a miracle happens." And it's not really that way. I mean, people do open source for the right reasons to bring code to the table, but you're saying nurturing that community project is a for all kind of thing. >> Fundamentally, I always think there are so many brilliant developers in these communities. And if you go into these communities with the assumption that you can learn something from the other developers, you can learn something from the other companies that are involved. And then you can contribute the areas where you are strong, where you have your core knowledge. And you wrap this into a product that provides value for your customers, everyone wins. Your customer wins, >> That a good way-- >> Your community wins, you win. >> So if you're out there thinking about it think about your core competency and what you want to open source, you got a good fit. Okay what's new for you? You diving, you're an avid scuba diver. We talked about that last time you were on theCUBE. What's new with you? >> I haven't been diving. Actually I drove up to Hootsbor to dive in 48 degrees Fahrenheit water, because I haven't been in the water for so long. My next trip is going to be Okinava which is a lot warmer than that. No, the work keeps me busy, so not as much scuba diving as I would want. But we've been very busy. We've been pushing a lot more contributions to a much larger set of projects. My team has been growing, so we've been actively hiring. And we're developing a second generation, internal set of processes to deal with all of these questions you asked about earlier, of how to make sure that you know where you contribute, how you contribute, which components you use. So we're revamping our internal processes around this. >> Lauren: That's great >> And it's keeping us very busy, but I have to say, especially, if you look at this conference here, the success is really very rewarding. We have so many more people actively engaged, and recognized in the community as key contributors. It's been a very very successful year since last we talked. >> It's awesome. Well thanks for your leadership at VMware. We love the KubeCon, we love the Linux Foundation, they've done amazing work. CNCF is just exploded with success and it's a result of, the trend is everyone's friend, which is cloud computing and software defined everything so, VMware. Thanks for coming out Dirk, appreciate it. Live coverage here in Copenhagen, Denmark. This is theCUBE, I'm John Furrier. Lauren Cooney co-hosting with me this week. And we'll be back with more, stay with us after this short break. (energetic music)

>> Announcer: From San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering OSIsoft PI World, 2018. Brought to you by OSIsoft. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in downtown San Francisco at the OSIsoft show, it's called PI World. It's been going on for over 15 years. We've never been here before, we're excited to be here. Really is coming at it from the operations point of view, and they've been worrying about operations and operations efficiency for years. There's people walking around with 15-year pins, which is pretty amazing. I got my first one-year pin, so that's good. So we're excited to be here and dive into the details, because we've talked about IoT and industrial IoT, and kind of coming at it from the IT side, but these guys have been working at it from the OT side for years and years and years, almost 40 years. So our first guest is joining us. He's Remi Duquette, the Global Head - Applied AI and Datacenter at Clarity Lifecycle, it's a mouthful, for Maya Heat Transfer Technologies. Remi, nice to meet you. >> Very nice meeting you, thank you for having me. >> So, give us a little bit more detail on what Maya Heat Transfer is all about, and then we'll dive into some of the specific stuff you're working on. >> So Maya Heat Transfer started about 28 years ago in the simulation of heat and getting rid of all that heat that's being emitted by a lot of data centers, all the servers and the density that's occurring these days. And we've involved into developing a software solution, leveraging the PI infrastructure for real-time monitoring, and extended it beyond, for forecasting and doing all sorts of advanced analytics from that data. >> Right, so heat is the historical enemy of electronics, and has been forever. >> Yes, continuing to be so, for sure. >> And continuing to be so, and the data centers, you know, it's an interesting evolution in the data center space, because on one hand, they're consolidating data centers, or shutting down data centers, you've got this public cloud phenomenon. On the other hand, it's density, density, density, density, density, which probably is good opportunity for you guys. >> A great opportunity. Unfortunately, you know, the problems kind of are accentuated by exactly those phenomenon of consolidation, and the cloud, and the virtualization projects that are going on. So all of that combined, makes for a really big cocktail of heat and that heat needs to be dissipated somehow. And of course, the energy efficiency of all the machines are getting better and better, but at some point, it needs to be optimized, and that's where the software component, to remove the human in the loop, really to optimize that heat distribution and removal. >> So one of the big themes here at this show is finding inefficiency. This kind of continual quest for better efficiency and using data, and big data specifically, and sensor data, to be able to get that, find the inefficiency and act on the inefficiency. So what are some of the things that you guys look at? You've been at it for a long time, but there's still a lot more opportunities to find inefficiencies. Where are you still finding inefficiencies? >> Well, I mean, the main aspect is we have a lot of building automation systems and cooling loop systems, that have been programed to try and get to the best situation in any circumstances. And, really, when you look at what we're doing now, is applying artificial intelligence to augment the abilities of those systems, to better control and get to even a better place from an energy efficiency perspective. So that's really the latest evolution, to use that big data, to learn from that data, and then further optimize your cooling environment and your heat distribution. >> Right, now I'm curious what kind of new learnings came out of kind of the hyperscale players. Obviously, big public cloud players, Amazon and Azure, Google Cloud, have giant data centers, not only for their own core businesses, but now they're building them out as public clouds. Much bigger scale than the traditional corporate data centers. They're just operating at a whole different level. >> A whole new, yeah (laughs). >> So what are some of the things that have come out of those experiences that are different than the world pre-public cloud? >> Well, if you look at the pre-public, private cloud and public cloud, you had maybe, on average, five to six kilowatt per rack in a data center, was the average power consumed by those racks. Now we're looking, you know, some of our clients have up to 50 kilowatt per rack and now you need water-cooled elements into that rack, or other cooling elements that are being, helping the situation, 'cause those kinds of densities are producing a huge amount of heat, and that's really a big concern and a big shift from the enterprise level data center that was a little bit less of a consumer of that power. >> Right, now do you guys do anything outside of the data center? I know that's your area of specialties, but we've been doing a lot of autonomous vehicle shows, and one of the things that comes over and over and over is kind of the harsh environment for compute in a car or a truck or a bus or whatever. It's not a beautifully controlled with a lot of great backup power and diesel and air conditioning. Very rough environment. So what are some of the applications that you guys can use to help get that compute power in these vehicles? >> Well, actually the evolution for us more on the software side, was to apply our deep learning, artificial intelligence components and agents to other industries. So we're leveraging the forecasting capabilities of these deep learning agents to apply to other areas. So discrete manufacturing was one example, fleet optimization, so to go back to those edge devices, so we do a lot of fleet optimization, fuel optimization on these components. And that's completely outside the data center, but it's based on the same type of deep learning technologies that we've developed for the data center. >> And all the forecasts are, as more and more the compute and the store moves out to the edge, and you've got all the industrial devices running around in the centers, it's not new news for the group at this organization, >> No, clearly (chuckles). >> But you know, you're kind of shifting that load of the heat management from the data center out to the edge. >> To the edge, correct. So it does relieve a little bit of the, let's call it the pressure, inside the data center, but at the end of the day, the density of those cloud providers is just being accentuated by the sheer number of devices. So we thought there might be a shift towards the edge from a power, let's say a removal from the core data center, but in the end, it's actually the opposite that's happening. The power is really getting denser and denser inside the data center itself. >> So, last question before I let you go. What's your take on the vibe of the show, what's happening here at PI World? It's amazing, the international flavor as I'm walking around the halls. I'm seeing badges and hearing all kinds of languages. I mean, this is pretty hard-core, industrial internet happening right here. >> Oh yeah, I mean the operational technologies and the various applications and industries in which PI is used and leveraged worldwide is phenomenal. And it's a very vibrant show. It's actually quite good, when it comes down to it, a lot of people, the exchange between the end users together from different industries share their tips and tricks on how they've deployed, their various stories are just amazing. So a great, great, great PI World conference for sure. >> All right, good. Well thank you for taking a few minutes and sitting down and sharing the Maya story with us. >> Thank you for having me. >> Absolutely. All right, he's Remi, I'm Jeff. We are at OSIsoft PI World 2018 in downtown San Francisco, we'll be right back, thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Fransisco It's theCUBE Covering PURE Accelerate 2017. Brought to you by PURESTORAGE. >> Welcome back to PURE Accelerate. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host Stu Miniman. This is PURE Accelerate. We're here at Pier 70. Brian McDaniel is here he's an infrastructure architect at the Baylor College of Medicine, not to be confused with Baylor University in Waco Texas, anymore. Brian Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me appreciate it. >> You're very welcome. Tell us about the Baylor College of Medicine. >> So, Baylor College of Medicine is a, first and foremost, a teaching facility but also the leader in research and development for healthcare in the Texas Medical Center in Houston Texas. We currently employ roughly 1,500 physicians and so they occupy a multitude of institutions, not only at Baylor but other facilities and hospitals in and around the Texas Medical Center. >> So, it's kind of' healthcare morning here Stu. We've been talking about electronic medical records, meaningful use, the Affordable Care Act, potential changes there, HIPAA, saving lives. These are big issues. >> We're not at the HIMSS Conference Dave? >> We should be at HIMMS. So these are big issues for any organization in healthcare. It's just exacerbates the challenges on IT. So, I wonder if you can talk about some of the drivers in your business, compliance, and in new tech and maybe share with us some of the things that you're seeing. >> Absolutely so first and foremost, we are an Epic system shop. That's our EMR. So, from a enterprise and clinical operation, that is our number one mission critical application. It provides your electronic medical records to our staff, regardless of where they're physically located at. So that alone is a demanding type of solution if you will, the mobility aspect of it. Delivering that in a fast manner and a repeatable manner is upmost important to our physicians because they're actually seeing patients and getting to your records and being able to add notes and collaborate with other institutions if necessary. So, time to market is very important and accessibility is also up there. >> Right so, you mentioned that collaboration and part of that collaboration is so much data now, being able to harness that data and share it. Data explodes everywhere but in healthcare, there's so much data to the extent we start instrumenting things. What are you guys doing with all that data? >> Right now, it lives within the clinical application, right in Epic, but as you pointed out that is where the value is. that is where your crown jewels so to speak are at. That data is now being looked at as a possible access point outside of the clinical operation. So, it's environment is going to be even more important going forward, when you look to branch out into some of the basic sides in more of a research, to gain access to that clinical data. That historically has been problematic for the research to be done accessing that information. >> So, in the corporate we like to think of, from an IT perspective, you got to run the business, you got to grow the business, you got to transform the business. It's a little different in healthcare. You kind of got to comply. A lot of your time is spent on compliance and regulation changes and keeping up with that. And then there's got to be a fair amount that's at least attempting to do transformation and in kind of keeping up with the innovations. Maybe you could talk about that a little bit. >> Absolutely, particularly on the innovation side, we work closely with out partners at Epic and we work to decide roadmaps and how that fits into the Baylor world. Case in point, a year ago we were set to go to the new version of Epic, which was 2015. And Epic is nice enough to lay out requirements for you and say, here's what your system needs to meet in order to comply with Epic standards. So, they give you a seal of approval, so to speak. And there's monetary implications for not meeting those requirements. So it's actually dollars and cents. It's not just , we want you to meet this. If you do then there's advantages to meeting it. So, they provided that to us and went though the normal testing phases and evaluations of our current platform, both from compute and storage. And honestly we struggled to meet their requirements with our legacy systems. So the team was challenged to say well, what can we do to meet this? We have our historical infrastructures, so if we're going to deviate from that, let's really deviate and look at what's available to the market. So, Flash comes to mind immediately. So, there's a multitude of vendors that make Flash storage products. So we started meeting with all of 'em, doing our fact finding and our data gathering, meeting with all of 'em. First and foremost, they have to be Epic certified. That eliminated a couple of contenders right off the bat. Right? You're not certified. >> I would expect some of the startups especially. >> It did. Some of the smaller, Flash vendors, for example, one of 'em came in and we said, well, what do you do with Epic? And they said what's Epic. And you kind of scratch your head and say thank you. >> Thank you for playing. >> Here's the door. So, it eliminates people but then when we meet with PURE, and we talked to them and we meet 'em and you get to really know that the family and the culture that they bring with the technology. Yes it's got to be fast but Flash is going to be fast. What else can you do? And that's where you start learning about how it was born on Flash, how it was native to Flash and so you get added benefits to the infrastructure by looking at that type of technology, which ultimately led us there, where we're at running Epic on our Flash arrays. >> And Brian, you're using the Flash stack configuration of converge infrastructure. It sounds like it was PURE that lead you that way as opposed to Cisco? Could you maybe walk us through that? >> That's very interesting, so we're a UCS shop. We were before PURE. So when PURE came in, the fact that they had a validated design with the Flash stack infrastructure, made it all that more easier to implement the PURE solution because it just is modular enough to fit in with our current infrastructure. That made it very appealing that we didn't have to change or alter much. We just looked at the validated design that says, here's your reference architecture, how it applies to the Flash stack. You already have UCS. We love it, we're a big fan. And here's how to implement it. And it made the time to market, to get production work loads on it, very quick. >> And the CVD that you got from Cisco, that's Cisco plus PURE but was it healthcare Epic specific or was that the PURE had some knowledge for that that they pulled in? >> So, that was one of the value adds that we feel PURE brought was the Epic experience. And whether that's scripting, the backups, and if you're familiar with Epic, the environmental refreshes that they have to do. There's seven Epic environments. And they all have to refresh off of each other and play off of each other so, >> So you have a window that you have to hit right. >> And you do right? And historically that window's been quite large. And now, not so much which makes everybody happy. >> Hey, that's what weekends are for. >> Absolutely, yeah, our DBAs attest to that right? So, we would like to think we've made their world and life a little bit more enjoyable 'cause those weekends now, they're not having to babysit the Epic refreshes. Back to the point of Epic experience, that was instrumental in the decision makings from a support with the PURESTORAGE help desk, awareness of what it takes to run Epic on PURE, and then going forward knowing that there's a partnership behind Epic and PURE and certainly Baylor College of Medicine as we continue to look at the next versions of Epic, whether that's 2018 and on to 2020, whatever that decision is, we know that we have a solid foundation now to grow. >> And Brian I'm curious, you've been a Cisco shop for a while, Cisco has lots of partnerships as well as, they've got a hyper-converged offering that they sell themselves. What was your experience working with Cisco and do they just let you choose and you said, I want PURE and they're like, great? Do you know? What was that like? >> To your point, there's validated designs for many customers and Cisco is kind of at the hub of that, that core with the compute and memory of the blade systems, the UCS. They liked the fact that we went with PURE 'cause it does me a validated design. And they have others with other vendors. The challenge there is how do they really integrate with each other from tools to possibly automation down the road, and how do they truly integrate with each other. 'Cause we did bring in some of the other validated design architecture organizations and I think we did our due diligence and looked at 'em to see how they differentiate between each other. And ultimately, we wanted something that was new and different approach to storage. It wasn't just layering your legacy OS on a bunch of Flash drives and call it good. Something that was natively born to take advantage of that technology. And that's what ultimately led us to PURE. >> Well, PURE has a point of view on the so called hyper-converged space. You heard Scott Dietzen talking this morning. What's your perspective on hyper-convergence? >> Hyper-converge is one of those buzz words that I think gets thrown out of there kind of off the cuff if you will. But people hear it and get excited about it. But what type of workloads are you looking to take advantage of it? Is it truly hyper-converged or is it just something that you can say you're doing because it sounds cool? I think to some degree, people are led astray on the buzzwords of the technology where they get down to say, what's going to take advantage of it? What kind of application are you putting on it? If your application, in our case, can be written by a grad student 20 years ago that a lab is still using, it does it make sense to put it on hyper-converged? No, because it can't take advantage of the architecture or the design. So, in a lot of ways, we're waiting and seeing. And the reason we didn't go to a hyper-converged platform is a, Epic support and b, we were already changing enough to stay comfortable with the environment and knowing that come Monday morning, doctors will be seeing patients and we're already changing enough, that was another layer that we chose not to change. We went with a standard UCS configuration that everyone was already happy with. That made a significant difference from an operational perspective. >> Essentially, your processes are tightly tied to Epic and the workflow associated with that. So from an infrastructure perspective, it sounds like you just don't want it to be in the way. >> We don't. The last thing we want in infrastructure getting in the way. And quite frankly, it was in the way. Whether that was meeting latency requirements or IOPS requirements from the Cache database or the Clarity database within the Epic system, or if was just all of are just taking a little bit longer than they expect. We don't want to be that bottleneck, if you will, we want them to be able to see patients faster, run reports faster, gain access to that valuable data in a much faster way to enable them to go about their business and not have to worry about infrastructure. >> Brian, PURE said that they had, I believe it's like 25 new announcements made this morning, a lot of software features. Curious, is there anything that jumped out at you, that you've been waiting for and anything still on your to do list that you're hoping for PURE or PURE and it's extended ecosystem to deliver for you? >> Great question, so at the top of that list is the replication of the arrays, whether that's in an offsite data center or a colo and how that applies to an Epic environment that has to go through this flux of refreshes, and from a disaster or business continuity standpoint, we're actively pursuing that, and how that's going to fit with Baylor. So, we're very excited to see what our current investment, free of charge by the way, once you do the upgrade to 5.0, is to take advantage of those features, with replication being one of 'em. >> And then, I thought I heard today, Third Sight is a service. Right? So you don't have to install your own infrastructure. So, I'm not sure exactly what that's all about. I got to peel the onion on that one. >> To be determined right? When we look at things like that, particularly with Epic, we have to be careful because that is the HIPAA, PHI, that's your records, yours and mine, medical records right? You just don't want that, if I told you it's going to be hosted in a public cloud. Wait a minute. Where? No it's not. We don't want to be on the 10 o'clock news right? However, there's things like SAP HANA and other enterprise applications that we certainly could look at leveraging that technology. >> Excellent, we listen, thank you very much Brian for coming on theCUBE. We appreciate your perspectives and sort of educating us a little bit on your business and your industry anyway. And have a great rest of the show. >> Yeah, thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> You're welcome. Alright keep it right there everybody. This is theCUBE. We're back live right after this short break from PURE Accelerate 2017. Be right back.