(soft techno upbeat music) >> Hi there. Welcome back to Las Vegas. This is Dave Villante with Paul Gillon. Reinvent day one and a half. We started last night, Monday, theCUBE after dark. Now we're going wall to wall. Today. Today was of course the big keynote, Adam Selipsky, kind of the baton now handing, you know, last year when he did his keynote, he was very new. He was sort of still getting his feet wet and finding his guru swing. Settling in a little bit more this year, learning a lot more, getting deeper into the tech, but of course, sharing the love with other leaders like Peter DeSantis. Tomorrow's going to be Swamy in the keynote. Adrian Cockcroft is here. Former AWS, former network Netflix CTO, currently an analyst. You got your own firm now. You're out there. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Yeah, thanks. >> We heard you on at Super Cloud, you gave some really good insights there back in August. So now as an outsider, you come in obviously, you got to be impressed with the size and the ecosystem and the energy. Of course. What were your thoughts on, you know what you've seen so far, today's keynotes, last night Peter DeSantis, what stood out to you? >> Yeah, I think it's great to be back at Reinvent again. We're kind of pretty much back to where we were before the pandemic sort of shut it down. This is a little, it's almost as big as the, the largest one that we had before. And everyone's turned up. It just feels like we're back. So that's really good to see. And it's a slightly different style. I think there were was more sort of video production things happening. I think in this keynote, more storytelling. I'm not sure it really all stitched together very well. Right. Some of the stories like, how does that follow that? So there were a few things there and some of there were spelling mistakes on the slides, you know that ELT instead of ETL and they spelled ZFS wrong and something. So it just seemed like there was, I'm not quite sure just maybe a few things were sort of rushed at the last minute. >> Not really AWS like, was it? It's kind of remind the Patriots Paul, you know Bill Belichick's teams are fumbling all over the place. >> That's right. That's right. >> Part of it may be, I mean the sort of the market. They have a leader in marketing right now but they're going to have a CMO. So that's sort of maybe as lack of a single threaded leader for this thing. Everything's being shared around a bit more. So maybe, I mean, it's all fixable and it's mine. This is minor stuff. I'm just sort of looking at it and going there's a few things that looked like they were not quite as good as they could have been in the way it was put together. Right? >> But I mean, you're taking a, you know a year of not doing Reinvent. Yeah. Being isolated. You know, we've certainly seen it with theCUBE. It's like, okay, it's not like riding a bike. You know, things that, you know you got to kind of relearn the muscle memories. It's more like golf than is bicycle riding. >> Well I've done AWS keynotes myself. And they are pretty much scrambled. It looks nice, but there's a lot of scrambling leading up to when it actually goes. Right? And sometimes you can, you sometimes see a little kind of the edges of that, and sometimes it's much more polished. But you know, overall it's pretty good. I think Peter DeSantis keynote yesterday was a lot of really good meat there. There was some nice presentations, and some great announcements there. And today I was, I thought I was a little disappointed with some of the, I thought they could have been more. I think the way Andy Jesse did it, he crammed more announcements into his keynote, and Adam seems to be taking sort of a bit more of a measured approach. There were a few things he picked up on and then I'm expecting more to be spread throughout the rest of the day. >> This was more poetic. Right? He took the universe as the analogy for data, the ocean for security. Right? The Antarctic was sort of. >> Yeah. It looked pretty, >> yeah. >> But I'm not sure that was like, we're not here really to watch nature videos >> As analysts and journalists, You're like, come on. >> Yeah, >> Give it the meat >> That was kind the thing, yeah, >> It has always been the AWS has always been Reinvent has always been a shock at our approach. 100, 150 announcements. And they're really, that kind of pressure seems to be off them now. Their position at the top of the market seems to be unshakeable. There's no clear competition that's creeping up behind them. So how does that affect the messaging you think that AWS brings to market when it doesn't really have to prove that it's a leader anymore? It can go after maybe more of the niche markets or fix the stuff that's a little broken more fine tuning than grandiose statements. >> I think so AWS for a long time was so far out that they basically said, "We don't think about the competition, we are listen to the customers." And that was always the statement that works as long as you're always in the lead, right? Because you are introducing the new idea to the customer. Nobody else got there first. So that was the case. But in a few areas they aren't leading. Right? You could argue in machine learning, not necessarily leading in sustainability. They're not leading and they don't want to talk about some of these areas and-- >> Database. I mean arguably, >> They're pretty strong there, but the areas when you are behind, it's like they kind of know how to play offense. But when you're playing defense, it's a different set of game. You're playing a different game and it's hard to be good at both. I think and I'm not sure that they're really used to following somebody into a market and making a success of that. So there's something, it's a little harder. Do you see what I mean? >> I get opinion on this. So when I say database, David Foyer was two years ago, predicted AWS is going to have to converge somehow. They have no choice. And they sort of touched on that today, right? Eliminating ETL, that's one thing. But Aurora to Redshift. >> Yeah. >> You know, end to end. I'm not sure it's totally, they're fully end to end >> That's a really good, that is an excellent piece of work, because there's a lot of work that it eliminates. There's are clear pain points, but then you've got sort of the competing thing, is like the MongoDB and it's like, it's just a way with one database keeps it simple. >> Snowflake, >> Or you've got on Snowflake maybe you've got all these 20 different things you're trying to integrate at AWS, but it's kind of like you have a bag of Lego bricks. It's my favorite analogy, right? You want a toy for Christmas, you want a toy formula one racing car since that seems to be the theme, right? >> Okay. Do you want the fully built model that you can play with right now? Or do you want the Lego version that you have to spend three days building. Right? And AWS is the Lego technique thing. You have to spend some time building it, but once you've built it, you can evolve it, and you'll still be playing those are still good bricks years later. Whereas that prebuilt to probably broken gathering dust, right? So there's something about having an vulnerable architecture which is harder to get into, but more durable in the long term. And so AWS tends to play the long game in many ways. And that's one of the elements that they do that and that's good, but it makes it hard to consume for enterprise buyers that are used to getting it with a bow on top. And here's the solution. You know? >> And Paul, that was always Andy Chassy's answer to when we would ask him, you know, all these primitives you're going to make it simpler. You see the primitives give us the advantage to turn on a dime in the marketplace. And that's true. >> Yeah. So you're saying, you know, you take all these things together and you wrap it up, and you put a snowflake on top, and now you've got a simple thing or a Mongo or Mongo atlas or whatever. So you've got these layered platforms now which are making it simpler to consume, but now you're kind of, you know, you're all stuck in that ecosystem, you know, so it's like what layer of abstractions do you want to tie yourself to, right? >> The data bricks coming at it from more of an open source approach. But it's similar. >> We're seeing Amazon direct more into vertical markets. They spotlighted what Goldman Sachs is doing on their platform. They've got a variety of platforms that are supposedly targeted custom built for vertical markets. How do successful do you see that play being? Is this something that the customers you think are looking for, a fully integrated Amazon solution? >> I think so. There's usually if you look at, you know the MongoDB or data stacks, or the other sort of or elastic, you know, they've got the specific solution with the people that really are developing the core technology, there's open source equivalent version. The AWS is running, and it's usually maybe they've got a price advantage or it's, you know there's some data integration in there or it's somehow easier to integrate but it's not stopping those companies from growing. And what it's doing is it's endorsing that platform. So if you look at the collection of databases that have been around over the last few years, now you've got basically Elastic Mongo and Cassandra, you know the data stacks as being endorsed by the cloud vendors. These are winners. They're going to be around for a very long time. You can build yourself on that architecture. But what happened to Couch base and you know, a few of the other ones, you know, they don't really fit. Like how you going to bait? If you are now becoming an also ran, because you didn't get cloned by the cloud vendor. So the customers are going is that a safe place to be, right? >> But isn't it, don't they want to encourage those partners though in the name of building the marketplace ecosystem? >> Yeah. >> This is huge. >> But certainly the platform, yeah, the platform encourages people to do more. And there's always room around the edge. But the mainstream customers like that really like spending the good money, are looking for something that's got a long term life to it. Right? They're looking for a long commitment to that technology and that it's going to be invested in and grow. And the fact that the cloud providers are adopting and particularly AWS is adopting some of these technologies means that is a very long term commitment. You can base, you know, you can bet your future architecture on that for a decade probably. >> So they have to pick winners. >> Yeah. So it's sort of picking winners. And then if you're the open source company that's now got AWS turning up, you have to then leverage it and use that as a way to grow the market. And I think Mongo have done an excellent job of that. I mean, they're top level sponsors of Reinvent, and they're out there messaging that and doing a good job of showing people how to layer on top of AWS and make it a win-win both sides. >> So ever since we've been in the business, you hear the narrative hardware's going to die. It's just, you know, it's commodity and there's some truth to that. But hardware's actually driving good gross margins for the Cisco's of the world. Storage companies have always made good margins. Servers maybe not so much, 'cause Intel sucked all the margin out of it. But let's face it, AWS makes most of its money. We know on compute, it's got 25 plus percent operating margins depending on the seasonality there. What do you think happens long term to the infrastructure layer discussion? Okay, commodity cloud, you know, we talk about super cloud. Do you think that AWS, and the other cloud vendors that infrastructure, IS gets commoditized and they have to go up market or you see that continuing I mean history would say that still good margins in hardware. What are your thoughts on that? >> It's not commoditizing, it's becoming more specific. We've got all these accelerators and custom chips now, and this is something, this almost goes back. I mean, I was with some micro systems 20,30 years ago and we developed our own chips and HP developed their own chips and SGI mips, right? We were like, the architectures were all squabbling of who had the best processor chips and it took years to get chips that worked. Now if you make a chip and it doesn't work immediately, you screwed up somewhere right? It's become the technology of building these immensely complicated powerful chips that has become commoditized. So the cost of building a custom chip, is now getting to the point where Apple and Amazon, your Apple laptop has got full custom chips your phone, your iPhone, whatever and you're getting Google making custom chips and we've got Nvidia now getting into CPUs as well as GPUs. So we're seeing that the ability to build a custom chip, is becoming something that everyone is leveraging. And the cost of doing that is coming down to startups are doing it. So we're going to see many, many more, much more innovation I think, and this is like Intel and AMD are, you know they've got the compatibility legacy, but of the most powerful, most interesting new things I think are going to be custom. And we're seeing that with Graviton three particular in the three E that was announced last night with like 30, 40% whatever it was, more performance for HPC workloads. And that's, you know, the HPC market is going to have to deal with cloud. I mean they are starting to, and I was at Supercomputing a few weeks ago and they are tiptoeing around the edge of cloud, but those supercomputers are water cold. They are monsters. I mean you go around supercomputing, there are plumbing vendors on the booth. >> Of course. Yeah. >> Right? And they're highly concentrated systems, and that's really the only difference, is like, is it water cooler or echo? The rest of the technology stack is pretty much off the shelf stuff with a few tweets software. >> You point about, you know, the chips and what AWS is doing. The Annapurna acquisition. >> Yeah. >> They're on a dramatically different curve now. I think it comes down to, again, David Floyd's premise, really comes down to volume. The arm wafer volumes are 10 x those of X 86, volume always wins. And the economics of semis. >> That kind of got us there. But now there's also a risk five coming along if you, in terms of licensing is becoming one of the bottlenecks. Like if the cost of building a chip is really low, then it comes down to licensing costs and do you want to pay the arm license And the risk five is an open source chip set which some people are starting to use for things. So your dis controller may have a risk five in it, for example, nowadays, those kinds of things. So I think that's kind of the the dynamic that's playing out. There's a lot of innovation in hardware to come in the next few years. There's a thing called CXL compute express link which is going to be really interesting. I think that's probably two years out, before we start seeing it for real. But it lets you put glue together entire rack in a very flexible way. So just, and that's the entire industry coming together around a single standard, the whole industry except for Amazon, in fact just about. >> Well, but maybe I think eventually they'll get there. Don't use system on a chip CXL. >> I have no idea whether I have no knowledge about whether going to do anything CXL. >> Presuming I'm not trying to tap anything confidential. It just makes sense that they would do a system on chip. It makes sense that they would do something like CXL. Why not adopt the standard, if it's going to be as the cost. >> Yeah. And so that was one of the things out of zip computing. The other thing is the low latency networking with the elastic fabric adapter EFA and the extensions to that that were announced last night. They doubled the throughput. So you get twice the capacity on the nitro chip. And then the other thing was this, this is a bit technical, but this scalable datagram protocol that they've got which basically says, if I want to send a message, a packet from one machine to another machine, instead of sending it over one wire, I consider it over 16 wires in parallel. And I will just flood the network with all the packets and they can arrive in any order. This is why it isn't done normally. TCP is in order, the packets come in order they're supposed to, but this is fully flooding them around with its own fast retry and then they get reassembled at the other end. So they're not just using this now for HPC workloads. They've turned it on for TCP for just without any change to your application. If you are trying to move a large piece of data between two machines, and you're just pushing it down a network, a single connection, it takes it from five gigabits per second to 25 gigabits per second. A five x speed up, with a protocol tweak that's run by the Nitro, this is super interesting. >> Probably want to get all that AIML that stuff is going on. >> Well, the AIML stuff is leveraging it underneath, but this is for everybody. Like you're just copying data around, right? And you're limited, "Hey this is going to get there five times faster, pushing a big enough chunk of data around." So this is turning on gradually as the nitro five comes out, and you have to enable it at the instance level. But it's a super interesting announcement from last night. >> So the bottom line bumper sticker on commoditization is what? >> I don't think so. I mean what's the APIs? Your arm compatible, your Intel X 86 compatible or your maybe risk five one day compatible in the cloud. And those are the APIs, right? That's the commodity level. And the software is now, the software ecosystem is super portable across those as we're seeing with Apple moving from Intel to it's really not an issue, right? The software and the tooling is all there to do that. But underneath that, we're going to see an arms race between the top providers as they all try and develop faster chips for doing more specific things. We've got cranium for training, that instance has they announced it last year with 800 gigabits going out of a single instance, 800 gigabits or no, but this year they doubled it. Yeah. So 1.6 terabytes out of a single machine, right? That's insane, right? But what you're doing is you're putting together hundreds or thousands of those to solve the big machine learning training problems. These super, these enormous clusters that they're being formed for doing these massive problems. And there is a market now, for these incredibly large supercomputer clusters built for doing AI. That's all bandwidth limited. >> And you think about the timeframe from design to tape out. >> Yeah. >> Is just getting compressed It's relative. >> It is. >> Six is going the other way >> The tooling is all there. Yeah. >> Fantastic. Adrian, always a pleasure to have you on. Thanks so much. >> Yeah. >> Really appreciate it. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Thank you Paul. >> Cheers. All right. Keep it right there everybody. Don't forget, go to thecube.net, you'll see all these videos. Go to siliconangle.com, We've got features with Adam Selipsky, we got my breaking analysis, we have another feature with MongoDB's, Dev Ittycheria, Ali Ghodsi, as well Frank Sluman tomorrow. So check that out. Keep it right there. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in enterprise and emerging tech, right back. (soft techno upbeat music)

>>Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Cube's live coverage of AWS Reinvent 2022. This is day one, I should say evening one of three and a half days of wall to wall coverage on the cube. Lisa Martin here with Dave Ante. Dave, we love talking about data, but the most important thing about data is if there's a breach, which are happening more and more frequently, that you can get it back. So data backup, data protection, data resiliency, hugely >>Important. Well, it used to be you got snake bit and then you closed the barn door after the horse ran away. Now I think people are a lot more aware that they gotta protect their data and be proactive about it. It can't just be an afterthought. >>It can't be an afterthought. We've got the CTO of own backup here. We're gonna be talking about that Adrian Consul. Adrian, welcome to the Cube. >>Thanks for having me. >>Talk a little bit about own backup. The what is unique about it? >>So we are the leading SaaS data protection vendor. We've built a business based on the fact that SAS has become a center of gravity for a lot of companies. Now, a lot of people have moved with digital transformation and more recently with the covid effects to digitize their business. Our platform is powered by aws. We've got 5,000 plus customers that trust what we do and to look after their data. We help them with resiliency, compliance, security, and we do it for people who are using Salesforce, ServiceNow, and Microsoft Dynamics 365 people >>Are gonna say, wait a minute, my data in the cloud isn't already backed up. Why do I Right. That's what they're gonna say. So how do you >>Respond? Yes. Lots of people say that. That is exactly right. So what people are beginning to realize much more is that there's actually a shared responsibility model between your SaaS provider and yourselves. And you know, the SaaS providers do a phenomenal job of giving you disaster recovery, a database copy, networking infrastructure, a bunch of security controls at that level. But they're pretty frank about the data you put in there is your data, right? And just that it's up to you to put the data in there. It's also up to you to keep it in there. And that's not so easy when you've got lots of integrations. You've got users running around in the applications, et cetera. So yeah, the heart of it is, it's your data, you put it in there, you better be looking after it too. >>That's so important for customers to understand what is Salesforce's responsibility? What's my responsibility to the really nail that? What are some of the main challenges as we see the cybersecurity landscape has changed so much in the last couple of years? Ransomware is now a, when it's gonna happen to us. How often, what's gonna be the significance? What are some of the main challenges that you're talking with customers about these days? >>So really on the data side, it definitely hinges around ransomware. But I would also say when you think about what digital transformation has done for customers, moved you to a world where you've gotta be on 24 7, right? You can't afford to have systems down, whether that's your public website or even things your salespeople are using. And so on the, on the data side, we talk a lot with our customers about really recovery. Not so much about backup. Backup is in our name, but our product is called Recover. And there's a reason for that. We're trying to focus on how can we help customers quickly get back to a good state when they've had an incident. So that's kind of the data side of it. On the security side of it, it's really about how do they manage all the controls that SaaS providers now give them. >>Make sure the right people in their organization can see the right data and the data. They should not be able to see the data they shouldn't be able to see. And that's just getting increasingly complex, really anchored around the fact that the volume of the data is growing, the complexity of that data is growing and really the sensitivity of that data is growing, right? When you think about all the data privacy rules, 10 years ago we didn't care about keeping a whole bunch of data around. Now you've kind of gotta get rid of it. So you've actually gotta manage it through its lifecycle. >>So the shared responsibility model has applied to data protection is, is kind of an interesting topic cuz you always think about it for security and I know security and data protection are these adjacencies, but it's a complicated situation cuz you've got shared responsibility models now across multiple clouds. It's gotta be way more complicated across SaaS because you've got different policies, you've got a lot more SaaS than you have. There's three clouds, four, if you put in Alibaba, you know, and yeah, I know this hosting and Oracle and IBM, et cetera, but hyperscalers and so, but there's dozens if not hundreds of SaaS products at a company. So are you able to create a consistent experience and, and for your customers across all those, now of course, I know you're not doing hundreds and thousands of SaaS products, but you got, you know, pretty big ones here. ServiceNow, Salesforce, right? 365. Let's start >>There. So, so consistency we are hoping will come honestly where the industry is right now. It's getting, getting each one in a state where you are comfortable with it, >>Right? Get it protected. >>Yeah. Take a sales force. A typical sales force environment right now has a survey we did recently, about 2000 fields that have sensitive data in it in some way, shape or form. You've couple that with about 80, 85% of the users can see some fields that are sensitive. How you manage that matrix is, is just really hard. And that's part of what our secure product brings to the table, helps you understand who can see what and why they can see it. >>So where are your customer conversations these days? Are you talking to CIOs and CISOs? Is this, is this at that level >>It for some of our customers? Yes, it absolutely gets there. The, the real core of our discussion is the guy who owns and runs the sales technology, for example, right? Or the ServiceNow technology or typically a center of excellence. Those have been, those have been a key way for us to help an organization understand what the risks are, what's necessary, what they're having to do given that they don't have a backup now and have those, those shared responsibility model conversations. That's kind of where >>It starts. Are you finding that most customers are not backing up Salesforce, for example, or ServiceNow? Or are they switching from a competitor over to own back? >>Sad to say that it's mostly not. Yeah, it's, it's predominantly, I thought my cloud provider had me covered for that. >>So the market is huge. Yes. Massive opportunity. Yeah. >>Yeah. If you think of the number of Salesforce instances, not ignoring ServiceNow and Dynamics for a moment, Salesforce talks about, I don't know, 150,000 customers somewhere in that mark and we have 500 of them. >>So how do you get the first penguin off the iceberg? What's the sort of customer conversation like just in terms of, you know, educating them and sending them and, and kind of pushing 'em over the edge so that they actually do start protecting their data? >>Yeah, so, so sadly it sometimes starts with, I had a data loss, I spent weeks working at it, I got 75% of my data back, but not all of it. And that's a real customer quote. And in other cases it's, sorry. In other cases it's how do we, you know, how are you thinking about your sales source environment, particularly customers that have a lot of them, how sensitive is the data? How critical is the data in there? What are you doing to protect it? Today we have some people doing, doing weekly exports, which Salesforce provides. It's a manual step. The first penguin off the iceberg, as you say, it's kind of to say, Hey, well why didn't you automate that? Right? Don't have to rely on somebody on a Tuesday pulling the data down. So that's, those are places where it starts. >>Yeah. So, you know, Lisa, I was saying earlier that, you know, it closed the barn door, right? And that's, that's essentially what Adrian's saying is you've, you've got, you basically gotta look for that customer that's been snake bitten. Yeah. But generally speaking, I feel like there's more awareness. I was gonna ask you, you know, in this economic climate is, is data protection recession proof? And I think it's, it's not right. People sort of, but at the same time, if you're not proactive about it, you really could hurt your business. Absolutely. So what, what are your thoughts on customers getting more efficient with regard to their, their data estate, their data protection? Can you turn it into a positive? >>I think, I think it absolutely is a positive. Obviously we're in an environment where CIOs are having to look at every penny they're spending. But if you think about what you're using the data for, you're making business decisions based on this data every day. Your, your entire organization is making business decisions. So if you've got missing data or inaccurate data, you're making suboptimal decisions, right? So that comes back to data protection, comes back to brand reputation. Yes. And it comes back to how quickly can you get the data back into the shape you need it to be. And that again, is why we focus on the recovery side of the equation, not just the backup side. Right. Sorry. I would also say that in these recession bit times you've got fewer people doing as much work as you had before that raises the chance of errors. And we see across our customer base 50% of the data corruption or or data loss occurrences happen cause a human did something by mistake. Yeah, sure. And if you up the, the stress of those humans, you're gonna get more errors. >>Should you, when you're talking with IT professionals or maybe sales leaders, should it be thinking differently about spend for data protection versus general spend? Given that the whole point is to be able to recover data when something happens? >>I think you have to think about it from a kind of a risk and a business continuity perspective, right? Data protection tangibly reduces your business risk, right? It gets you back up faster. It, it helps you stay running. It helps ensure that the right people have access to the right data and from a secure standpoint and, and all of those just lower your risk. And if you're having discussions as CIOs should be with their business counterparts around business continuity, with the criticality of the data that's in Salesforce and these other SaaS applications today, I think it's pretty obvious that, that you should have a strong data protection strategy around >>It. Absolutely. >>Your business is at >>Risk, right? And nobody wants to be the next headline. No. My last question for you, Adrian, is if there was a billboard near your headquarters, what's that? What would it say? What's that tagline about own backup that really nails it home? >>I think it's, nobody operating in the cloud should ever lose data and that's what we're here to do. >>Excellent. Adrian, it's been a pleasure having you on the program. Thank you for talking with David, me, great talking to you about and back up what you guys are doing and really how organizations need to be very aware of that shared responsibility model. It sounds like you guys are well on your way to helping them understand that. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you both. Thank you. Best of luck. >>Appreciate it. Thank our pleasure. For our guest and Dave Ante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cube, the leader in emerging and enterprise tech coverage.

>>Hello and welcome to the cubes coverage of dr khan 2021. I'm john Kerry, host of the cube agent I own L. C. Ceo and co founder chairman of Morantes cube alumni Adrian Great to see you. Thanks for coming on the cube here for dr khan coverage. Good to see you. Hey >>john nice to see. You gotta do. >>So obviously open source innovation continues. You guys are at the forefront of it. Great to see you what's new Miranda's, give us the update on what's happening. >>Well, I mean what's, what's interesting is we've had one of the best years ever last year and it's very much more continuous, you know, into this year. It's pretty fantastic. We wanted about 160 new customers. Kubernetes is definitely on a tear. We see customers doing bigger and bigger and more exciting things, which is absolutely great to say lens is getting tremendous destruction and I think we have a five fold increase in user base within a year. So it's a lot of fun Right now, customers are definitely pushing the boundaries of what benefits can do. And they want to get the cloud native infrastructure and they want to get there faster and they want to be big and exciting things. And we are so happy to be part of the right. >>You guys are investing in brand new open source solutions for customers. Give us an update on on why and why do they matter for your customer? >>Well, there are, let me unpack this a little bit and there are really two elements to this. One is wide. Open Source and what's new. What matters. So the open source is not new, but open source is being embraced more and more heavily. Bye bye companies everywhere because just a very flexible and cost efficient and highly innovative way to to use innovation and to continue software and a lot of innovation these days is happening the open source communities, which is why it's super exciting for many, many users now. What's new with us? I think there are two really terrific things that we brought the market that we see, get a lot of interest and attention from our customers and create value. One is this idea of delivering, including the infrastructure that's been in space as a service for some of the largest news cases out there. Very large enterprises. We want to have a cloud experience on prime just like they have it in public clouds. That is absolutely fantastic. And that's new and different and very, very exciting. Customs. The second thing that's new and compelling and exciting is the is lands which is this kubernetes, i. e. that has empowered in the meantime, close to 180,000 communities, developers around the world to make it much much easier to take advantage of genetics. So you can think of it as a I. D. And a D. Bugger for anybody who is using genetics on public clouds or on on private infrastructure. That is getting tremendous traction and adoption. >>The interest in kubernetes has been unbelievable. I mean in coop con we saw kubernetes almost become boring in the sense of like it's everyone's using it and there's still now it's enabling a lot more cloud native development. Why does that lens matter what is the benefit? Because that's that's a killer opportunity because kubernetes is actively being adopted. The general consensus is it's delivering the value. >>Yeah. So let me unpack this in two aspects why Wise Bennett is important, why people adopting it and then how it lands adding value on top of it for people who want to use humanity's common. It is tremendously important is because it solves some very, very fundamental problems for developers and operators when building cloud native applications. These are problems that are very essential to actually operating in production but are really unpleasant people to solve, like availability, scalability, reusability of services. So all of that with amenities comes right out of the box and developers no longer have to worry about it. And at the same time, the benefits gives you a standard where you can build apps on public clouds and then move them on prem or build them on trend with them on public clouds and anywhere in between. So it gives a kind of this universal cloud native standard that you as a developer can rely on. And that's extremely valuable for developers. We all remember from the java times when java came online, people really value this idea of white ones run anywhere and that's exactly what benefits does for you in a clown in the world. So it's extremely screaming valuable for people. Um now how does let's add value in this context is also very exciting. So what's happening when you build these applications on a minute? This is that you have many, many services which interact with each other in fairly complex and sometimes unpredictable ways and they're also very much interact with the infrastructure. So you have you can you can imagine kind of this jungle this label building of many different cloud native services working together to build your app, run your app well, how are you going to navigate that and debug that as a developer as you build and optimize your code. So what lengths does it gives you kind of like a real time poppet of pounds of console. You can imagine like you're a fighter pilot in this jet and you have all these instruments kind of coming out here and gives you like this fantastic real time situational awareness. So you can very quickly figure out what is it that you need to do? Either fixing a bug in your application or optimize the performance of the code of making more your rival fixing security issues. And it makes it extremely easy for developers to use. Right? But this tradition has been hard to use complicated, this makes it super fast, easy, have a lot of fun. >>You know, that is really the great theme about this conference this year and your point exactly is developer experience making it simpler and easier. Okay. And innovative is really hits the mark on productivity. I mean and that's really been a key part. So I think that's why I think people are so excited about kubernetes because it's not like some other technologies that had all the setup requirement and making things easier to get stood up and manage. Its huge. So congratulations. A great point, great call out there, great insight. The next question to ask you is you guys have coined the term software factory. Um, yeah, this kind of plays into this. If you have all the services, you can roll them up together with lens and those tools, it's gonna be easier, more productive. So that means it's more software, open source is the software factory to what does that term mean? And how >>it is leverage. Yeah, So here's what it means to us. And so, as you know, today, Soft is being produced by two groups working together to build software, uh, certainly the poor people are the developments, these are the people who create the core functionality. Imagine all the software should be architected and ultimately ship the code right? And maintain the code, but the developers today don't operate just by themselves. They have their psychics, they have their friends for often platform engineering and platform engineers. These are the people who are helping developers, you know, make some of the most important choices as to which platform states we should use, which services they should use, how they should think about governance. How should they think about cloud infrastructure they should use, which open source libraries they should use. How often they should be fresh those libraries and support. So this platform engineers create if you want the factory, the substrate and the automation, which allows these developers to be highly productive. And the analogy want to make is the chip design, right. If you imagine ship design today, you take advantage of a lot of software, a lot of tooling and a lot of free package libraries. You get your job done, you're not doing it by yourself. Uh just wiring transistors together or logical elements. You do it using a massive amount of automation and software, like recent polls. So that's that's what we aim to provide you to customers because what we discovered is that customers, I don't want to be in the business of buildings off the factories, They don't want to be in the business or building platform engineering teams. If they can avoid it, they just do it because they have no choice. But it's difficult for them to do. It's cumbersome, it's expensive. It's a one off. It really doesn't create any unique business value because the platform engineering for a bank is very similar to the platform engineering for, let's say, an oil gas company or the insurance company. Um So we do it for them turnkey as a service. So they can be focusing on what Madison's for that. >>That's a great inside. I love that platform engineering, enabling software developers because, you know, look at sas throwing features together. Being a feature developer is cool. And and and the old days of platform was the full stack developer. And now you have this notion of platform as a service in a way, in this kind of new way. What's different agents? You've seen these waves of innovation? Certainly an open source that we've been covering your career for over a decade uh with more Anderson and open stick and others. This idea of a platform that enables software. What's changed now about this new substrate, you mentioned what's different than the old platform model? >>Uh That's a wonderful question. Uh a couple of things are different. So the first thing that's different is the openness and uh, and that everything is based on open source frameworks as opposed to platforms that we that are highly opinionated and, and I lock in. So I think that's that's a very, very fundamental difference. If you're looking at the initial kind of platform as a service approaches, there were there were extremely opinionated and very rigid and not always open source or just a combination between open source and proprietary. So that's one very big difference. The second very big difference is the emphasis on, and it goes along with the first one, the emphasis on um, multi cloud and infrastructure independence, where a platform is not wedded to a particular stack, where it's a AWS stack or a uh, an Azure stack or the EMR stack. And, and but it's truly a layer above. That's completely open source center. >>Yeah. >>And the third thing that is different is the idea that it's not just the software, the software alone will not do the job, you need the software and the content and the support and the expertise. If you're looking at how platform engineering is done at the large company like Apple, for example, facebook, it's really always the combination of those three things. It's the automation framework, the software, It's the content, the open source libraries or any other libraries that you create. And then it's the expertise that goes all this together and it's being offered to developers to be able to take advantage of this like soft factory. So I think these are the major differences in terms of where we are today was five years ago, 10 years ago. >>Thank you for unpacking that for I think that's a great uh great captures the shift and value. This brings up my next uh question for you because you know, you take that to the next level. DeVOps is now also graduating to a whole another level. The future of devops uh and software engineering more and more around kubernetes and your tools like lens and others managing the point. What is the new role of devops? Obviously Deb see cops but devops is now changing to What's the future of devops in your opinion? >>Well, I believe that there is going to become more and more integrated where our option is going to become uh something like Zero Arts, where are you going to be fully automated And something that's being delivered entirely through software and developers will be able to focus entirely, on, on creating and shipping code. I think that's the major, that's a major change that's happening. The problem is still yet I think to be solved like 100% correctly is the challenge of the last mile. like deploying that code on on on the infrastructure and making sure that he's performing correctly to the sls and optimizing everything. I also believe that the complexity veneta is very powerful by the same time offers a lot of room for complexity. There are many knobs and dials that you can turn in these microservices based architecture. And what we're discovering now is that this complexity kind of exceeds the ability of the individual developer or even a group of developers who constantly optimize things. So I believe what we will see is a I machine learning, taking charge of optimizing a lot of parameters, operating parameters around the applications and that unemployment benefits to ensure those applications perform to the expectations of the illness. And that might mean performing to a very high standard security. Or it might mean performing to a very a low latency in certain geography. Might mean performing too a very low cost structure that you can expect and those things can change over time. Right? So this challenge of operating an application introduction Burnett is substrate is I think dramatically higher than on just additional cloud infrastructure or virtualization. Because you have so many services inter operating with each other and so many different parameters you can set for machine learning and Ai >>I love the machine learning. Ai and I'd love to just get your thoughts on because I love the Zero ops narrative Because that's day one zero ops now that you're here day to being discussed and people are also hyping up, you know, ai Ops and other things. But you know this notion of day to, okay, I'm shipping stuff in the cloud and I have to have zero ops on day 234 et cetera. Uh, what's your take on that? Because that seems to be a hot air that customers and enterprises are getting in and understanding the new wave, writing it and then going, wait a minute pushing new code that's breaking something over there I built months ago. So this is just notion of day to obstacle. But again, if you want to be zero ops, it's gonna be every day. >>Oh, I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't think there's going to be a difference between they want the zero they want and today chair, I think every day is going to be the zero. And the reason for that is because people will be shipping all the time. So your application will change all the time. So the application will always be fresh, so it will always be there zero. So zero ops has to be there all the time. Not just in the birthday. >>Great slogan! Every day is day zero, which means it's going well. I mean there's no no problems. So I gotta ask you the question was one of the big things that's coming up as well as this idea of an SRE not new to devops world, but as enterprises start to get into an SRE role where with hybrid and now edge becoming people not just industrial, um there's been a lot of activity going on a distributed basis. So you're gonna need to have this kind of notion of large scale and 00 ops, which essentially means automation, all those things you mentioned, >>not everyone can >>afford that. Um Not every company can afford to have you know hardcore devops groups to manage and their release process, all that stuff. So how are you helping customers and how do you see this problem being solved? Because this is the accelerant people want, they want the the easy button, they want the zero ops but they just they don't they can't pipeline people fast enough to do this role. >>Yeah. What you're describing is the central differentiator we bring to customers is this idea of as a service experience with guaranteed outcomes. So that's what makes us different versus the traditional enterprise infrastructure software model where people just consume software vendors and system integrate themselves and then are in charge of operations themselves and carrying the technical risks themselves. We deliver everything as a service with guaranteed outcomes through the through cloud native experience. That means guaranteed as L. A. Is predictable outcomes, continuous updates, continuous upgrades. Your on prem infrastructure or your edge infrastructure is going to look and feel and behave exactly like a public cloud experience where you're not going to have to worry about sRS or maintaining the underlying being delivered to you as a service. That's a big part, that's a central part of what makes us different in this space. >>That's great value proposition. Can you just expand give an example of a use case where you guys are doing that? Because this is something that I'm seeing a lot of people looking to go faster. You know speed is good but also it could kill right? So you can break things if you go to a. >>Yeah absolutely. I can give you several examples where we're doing this um very exciting company. So one companies booking dot com booking dot com as a massive on from infrastructure but they also massive public cloud consumer. And they decided they want to bring their own infrastructure to the cloud level of automation, cloud level Sophistication, in other words, they want to have their Aws on brand, they wanted to the old, so eccentric and we're delivering this to them with very high in the cell is exactly as a service turnkey Where there is nothing for them to system in grade or to tune and optimize and operate is being really operating 24/7 guaranteed sls and outcomes by us. Well, combination of soft film expertise that we have at massive scale and to the standards of booking dot com. This is one example, another example and this is a very large company um is the opposite side of the spectrum. You know, because they're not called Mexico super successful. Soft as a service company in the security space, growing in leaps and bounds in very high technical demands and security demands. And they want to have an on prem and cloud infrastructure to complement public clouds. Why? Because security is very important to them. Latency is very important to them. Control the customer experience is very important to them. Cost is very important to them. So for that reason they want that in a network of data centers around the globe And we provide that for them. Turnkey as a service than before seven, which enables them to focus 100% on building their own sense on their the functionality which matters to their customers and not have to worry about the underlying cloud infrastructure in their data centers. All of that gets provided to them has guaranteed about experience to their end users. So this would be the examples where we're doing a >>great service. People are looking for a great job. Adrian, Great to see you. Thank you for coming on the cube here, doc are gone 2021. Um, take a minute to put a plug in for the company. What are you guys up to? What you're looking for hiring? I'll see. You got great tracks with customers, congratulates on lens. Um give a quick update on what's going >>on. Happy happy to give it up in the company. So he, here are the highlights. It was super excited about about what we achieved last year and then what we're up to this year. So last year, what we're proud of is despite Covid, we haven't laid off a single person. We kept all the staff and we hired staff. We have gained 160 new customers, many of them, some of the world's largest and best companies and 300 of all existing customers have expanded their business with us last year, which is fantastic. We also had a very strong financial physical cash flow positive. It was a tremendous, tremendous here for us. Uh, this year is very much growth here for us and we would incredible focus on customer outcomes and customer experience. So what we are really, really digging in super hard on is to give the customers the technology and the services that enable them to get to ship software faster and easier to dramatically increase the productivity of dissolved the development efforts on any cloud infrastructure on crime and public clouds using containers and is and to do that as scale. So we're extremely focused on customer outcomes, custom experience and then the innovation is required to make that happen. So you will continue to see a lot of innovation around lens. So the last better release of lens that we brought about has now a cloud service and have a lot of feature where you can share all your cloud automation with your bodies, in, in uh, in uh, in your development team. So the lens used to be a single user product. Now it's a multi user and team based product, which is fantastic, continues to grow very quickly. And then container cloud as a service. Uh, it's a very big part that we're meeting on the infrastructure side. Are you get quite >>the open source cloud company. Adrian. Congratulations. We've been again following even on the many waves of innovation. Open stack, large scale open source software. Congratulations. >>Uh chris >>Thank you very much for coming on the cube. >>Yeah. >>Okay. Dr khan 2021 cube coverage. I'm john furrier here where the Gi Enel Ceo, co founder and chairman of Miranda's sharing his perspective on the open source innovation with their process and also key trends in the industry that is changing the game in accelerating cloud value cloud scales. Cloud native applications. Thanks for watching. Mhm.

>>Welcome everyone. Good morning. Good evening to all of you around the world. I am so excited to welcome you to launch bad our annual conference for customers, for partners, for our own colleagues here at Mirandes. This is meant to be a forum for learning, for sharing for discovery. One of openness. We're incredibly excited. Do you have you here with us? I want to take a few minutes this morning and opened the conference and share with you first and foremost where we're going as a company. What is our vision then? I also want to share with you on update on what we have been up to you for the past year. Especially with two important acquisitions, Doc Enterprise and then container and lens. And what are some of the latest developments at Mirandes? And then I'll close also with an exciting announcement that we have today, which we hope is going to be interesting and valuable for all of you. But let me start with our mission. What are we here to Dio? It's very simple. We want to help you the ship code faster. This is something that we're very excited about, something that we have achieved for many of you around the world. And we just want thio double down on. We feel this is a mission that's very much worthwhile and relevant and important to you. Now, how do we do that? How do we help you ship code faster? There are three things we believe in. We believe in this world of cloud. Um, choice is incredibly important. We all know that developers want to use the latest tools. We all know that cloud technology is evolving very quickly and new innovations appear, um, very, very quickly, and we want to make them available to you. So choice is very important. At the same time, consuming choice can be difficult. So our mission is to make choice simple for you to give developers and operators simplicity and then finally underpinning everything that we dio is security. These are the three big things that we invest in and that we believe that choice, simplicity and security and the foundation technology that we're betting on to make that happen for you is kubernetes many of you, many of our customers use kubernetes from your aunties today and they use it at scale. And this is something we want to double down on the fundamental benefit. The our key promise we want to deliver for you is Speed. And we feel this is very relevant and important and and valuable in the world that we are in today. So you might also be interested in what have been our priorities since we acquired Doc Enterprise. What has happened for the past year at Miranda's And there are three very important things we focused on as a company. The first one is customer success. Um, when we acquired Doc Enterprise, the first thing we did is listen to you connect with the most important customers and find out what was your sentiment. What did you like? What were you concerned about? What needed to improve? How can we create more value and a better experience for you? So, customers success has been a top of our list of priorities ever since. And here is what we've heard here is what you've told us. You've told us that you very much appreciated the technology that you got a lot of value out of the technology, but that at the same time, there are some things that we can do better. Specifically, you wanted better. Sele's better support experience. You also wanted more clarity on the road map. You also wanted to have a deeper alignment and a deeper relationship between your needs and your requirements and our our technical development that keep people in our development organization are most important engineers. So those three things are were very, very important to you and they were very important to us here. So we've taken that to heart and over the past 12 months, we believe, as a team, we have dramatically improved the customer support experience. We introduced new SLS with prod care. We've rolled out a roadmap to many many of our customers. We've taken your requirements of the consideration and we've built better and deeper relationships with so many of you. And the evidence for that that we've actually made some progress is in a significant increase off the work clothes and in usage of all platforms. I was so fortunate that we were able to build better and stronger relationships and take you to the next level of growth for companies like Visa like soc T general, like nationwide, like Bosch, like Axa X l like GlaxoSmithKline, like standard and Poor's, like Apple A TNT. So many, many off you, Many of all customers around the world, I believe over the past 12 months have experienced better, better, better support strong s L. A s a deeper relationship and a lot more clarity on our roadmap and our vision forward. The second very big priority for us over the last year has been product innovation. This is something that we are very excited about that we've invested. Most of our resource is in, and we've delivered some strong proof points. Doc Enterprise 3.1 has been the first release that we have shipped. Um, as Mirant is as the unified company, Um, it's had some big innovative features or Windows support or a I and machine learning use cases and a significant number off improvements in stability and scalability earlier this year. We're very excited to have a quiet lens and container team, which is by far the most popular kubernetes. I'd, um, in the world today and every day, 600 new users are starting to use lens to manage the community's clusters to deploy applications on top of communities and to dramatically simplify the experience for communities for operators and developers alike. That is a very big step forward for us as a company. And then finally, this week at this conference, we announcing our latest product, which we believe is a huge step forward for Doc Enterprise and which we call Doc Enterprise, Container Cloud, and you will hear a lot more about that during this conference. The third vector of development, the third priority for us as a company over the past year was to become mawr and Mawr developer centric. As we've seen over the past 10 years, developers really move the world forward. They create innovation, they create new software. And while our platform is often managed and run and maybe even purchased by RT architects and operators and I T departments, the actual end users are developers. And we made it our mission a za company, to become closer and closer to developers to better understand their needs and to make our technology as easy and fast to consume as possible for developers. So as a company, we're becoming more and more developers centric, really. The two core products which fit together extremely well to make that happen, or lens, which is targeted squarely at a new breed off kubernetes developers sitting on the desktop and managing communities, environments and the applications on top on any cloud platform anywhere and then DACA enterprise contain a cloud which is a new and radically innovative, contain a platform which we're bringing to market this week. So with this a za background, what is the fundamental problem which we solve for you, for our customers? What is it that we feel are are your pain points that can help you resolve? We see too very, very big trends in the world today, which you are experiencing. On one side, we see the power of cloud emerging with more features mawr innovation, more capabilities coming to market every day. But with those new features and new innovations, there is also an exponential growth in cloud complexity and that cloud complexity is becoming increasingly difficult to navigate for developers and operators alike. And at the same time, we see the pace of change in the economy continuing to accelerate on bits in the economy and in the technology as well. So when you put these two things together on one hand, you have MAWR and Mawr complexity. On the other hand, you have fast and faster change. This makes for a very, very daunting task for enterprises, developers and operators to actually keep up and move with speed. And this is exactly the central problem that we want to solve for you. We want to empower you to move with speed in the middle off rising complexity and change and do it successfully and with confidence. So with that in mind, we are announcing this week at LAUNCHPAD a big and new concept to take the company forward and take you with us to create value for you. And we call this your cloud everywhere, which empowers you to ship code faster. Dr. Enterprise Container Cloud is a lynch bit off your cloud everywhere. It's a radical and new container platform, which gives you our customers a consistent experience on public clouds and private clouds alike, which enables you to ship code faster on any infrastructure, anywhere with a cohesive cloud fabric that meets your security standards that offers a choice or private and public clouds and offer you a offers you a simple, an extremely easy and powerful to use experience. for developers. All of this is, um, underpinned by kubernetes as the foundation technology we're betting on forward to help you achieve your goals at the same time. Lens kubernetes e. It's also very, very well into the real cloud. Every concept, and it's a second very strong linchpin to take us forward because it creates the developing experience. It supports developers directly on their desktop, enabling them Thio manage communities workloads to test, develop and run communities applications on any infrastructure anywhere. So Doc, Enterprise, Container, Cloud and Lens complement each other perfectly. So I'm very, very excited to share this with you today and opened the conference for you. And with this I want to turn it over to my colleague Adam Parker, who runs product development at Mirandes to share a lot more detail about Doc Enterprise Container Cloud. Why we're excited about it. Why we feel is a radical step forward to you and why we feel it can add so much value to your developers and operators who want to embrace the latest kubernetes technology and the latest container technology on any platform anywhere. I look forward to connecting with you during the conference and we should all the best. Bye bye. >>Thanks, Adrian. My name is Adam Parco, and I am vice president of engineering and product development at Mirant ISS. I'm extremely excited to be here today And to present to you Dr Enterprise Container Cloud Doc Enterprise Container Cloud is a major leap forward. It Turpal charges are platform. It is your cloud everywhere. It has been completely designed and built around helping you to ship code faster. The world is moving incredibly quick. We have seen unpredictable and rapid changes. It is the goal of Docker Enterprise Container Cloud to help navigate this insanity by focusing on speed and efficiency. To do this requires three major pillars choice, simplicity and security. The less time between a line of code being written and that line of code running in production the better. When you decrease that cycle, time developers are more productive, efficient and happy. The code is higher, quality contains less defects, and when bugs are found are fixed quicker and more easily. And in turn, your customers get more value sooner and more often. Increasing speed and improving developer efficiency is paramount. To do this, you need to be able to cycle through coding, running, testing, releasing and monitoring all without friction. We enabled us by offering containers as a service through a consistent, cloudlike experience. Developers can log into Dr Enterprise Container Cloud and, through self service, create a cluster No I T. Tickets. No industry specific experience required. Need a place to run. A workload simply created nothing quicker than that. The clusters air presented consistently no matter where they're created, integrate your pipelines and start deploying secure images everywhere. Instantly. You can't have cloud speed if you start to get bogged down by managing, so we offer fully automated lifecycle management. Let's jump into the details of how we achieve cloud speed. The first is cloud choice developers. Operators add mons users they all want. In fact, mandate choice choice is extremely important in efficiency, speed and ultimately the value created. You have cloud choice throughout the full stack. Choice allows developers and operators to use the tooling and services their most familiar with most efficient with or perhaps simply allows them to integrate with any existing tools and services already in use, allowing them to integrate and move on. Doc Enterprise Container Cloud isn't constructive. It's open and flexible. The next important choice we offer is an orchestration. We hear time and time again from our customers that they love swarm. That's simply enough for the majority of their applications. And that just works that they have skills and knowledge to effectively use it. They don't need to be or find coop experts to get immediate value, so we will absolutely continue to offer this choice and orchestration. Our existing customers could rest assure their workloads will continue to run. Great as always. On the other hand, we can't ignore the popularity that growth, the enthusiasm and community ecosystem that has exploded with communities. So we will also be including a fully conforming, tested and certified kubernetes going down the stock. You can't have choice or speed without your choice and operating system. This ties back to developer efficiency. We want developers to be able to leverage their operating system of choice, were initially supporting full stack lifecycle management for a bun, too, with other operating systems like red hat to follow shortly. Lastly, all the way down at the bottom of stack is your choice in infrastructure choice and infrastructure is in our DNA. We have always promoted no locking and flexibility to run where needed initially were supporting open stock AWS and full life cycle management of bare metal. We also have a road map for VM Ware and other public cloud providers. We know there's no single solution for the unique and complex requirements our customers have. This is why we're doubling down on being the most open platform. We want you to truly make this your cloud. If done wrong, all this choice at speed could have been extremely complex. This is where cloud simplification comes in. We offer a simple and consistent as a service cloud experience, from installation to day to ops clusters Air created using a single pane of glass no matter where they're created, giving a simple and consistent interface. Clusters can be created on bare metal and private data centers and, of course, on public cloud applications will always have specific operating requirements. For example, data protection, security, cost efficiency edge or leveraging specific services on public infrastructure. Being able to create a cluster on the infrastructure that makes the most sense while maintaining a consistent experience is incredibly powerful to developers and operators. This helps developers move quick by being able to leverage the infra and services of their choice and operators by leveraging, available, compute with the most efficient and for available. Now that we have users self creating clusters, we need centralized management to support this increase in scale. Doc Enterprise Container cloud use is the single pane of glass for observe ability and management of all your clusters. We have day to ops covered to keep things simple and new. Moving fast from this single pane of glass, you can manage the full stack lifecycle of your clusters from the infra up, including Dr Enterprise, as well as the fully automated deployment and management of all components deployed through it. What I'm most excited about is Doc Enterprise Container Cloud as a service. What do I mean by as a service doctor? Enterprise continue. Cloud is fully self managed and continuously delivered. It is always up to date, always security patched, always available new features and capabilities pushed often and directly to you truly as a service experience anywhere you want, it run. Security is of utmost importance to Miranda's and our customers. Security can't be an afterthought, and it can't be added later with Doctor and a price continued cloud, we're maintaining our leadership and security. We're doing this by leveraging the proven security and Dr Enterprise. Dr. Enterprise has the best and the most complete security certifications and compliance, such as Stig Oscar, How and Phipps 1 $40 to thes security certifications allows us to run in the world's most secure locations. We are proud and honored to have some of the most security conscious customers in the world from all industries into. She's like insurance, finance, health care as well as public, federal and government agencies. With Dr Enterprise Container Cloud. We put security as our top concern, but importantly, we do it with speed. You can't move fast with security in the way so they solve this. We've added what we're calling invisible security security enabled by default and configured for you as part of the platform. Dr Price Container Cloud is multi tenant with granular are back throughout. In conjunction with Doc Enterprise, Docker Trusted Registry and Dr Content Trust. We have a complete end to end secured software supply chain Onley run the images that have gone through the appropriate channels that you have authorized to run on the most secure container engine in the >>industry. >>Lastly, I want to quickly touch on scale. Today. Cluster sprawl is a very real thing. There are test clusters, staging clusters and, of course, production clusters. There's also different availability zones, different business units and so on. There's clusters everywhere. These clusters are also running all over the place. We have customers running Doc Enterprise on premise there, embracing public cloud and not just one cloud that might also have some bare metal. So cloud sprawl is also a very real thing. All these clusters on all these clouds is a maintenance and observe ability. Nightmare. This is a huge friction point to scaling Dr Price. Container Cloud solves these issues, lets you scale quicker and more easily. Little recap. What's new. We've added multi cluster management. Deploy and attach all your clusters wherever they are. Multi cloud, including public private and bare metal. Deploy your clusters to any infra self service cluster creation. No more I T. Tickets to get resources. Incredible speed. Automated Full stack Lifecycle management, including Dr Enterprise Container, cloud itself as a service from the in for up centralized observe ability with a single pane of glass for your clusters, their health, your APs and most importantly to our existing doc enterprise customers. You can, of course, add your existing D clusters to Dr Enterprise Container Cloud and start leveraging the many benefits it offers immediately. So that's it. Thank you so much for attending today's keynote. This was very much just a high level introduction to our exciting release. There is so much more to learn about and try out. I hope you are as excited as I am to get started today with Doc Enterprise. Continue, Cloud, please attend the tutorial tracks up Next is Miska, with the world's most popular Kubernetes E Lens. Thanks again, and I hope you enjoy the rest of our conference.

live from Las Vegas it's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2018 brought to you by Amazon Web Services Intel and their ecosystem partners welcome back to Las Vegas everybody I'm Dave Villeneuve my co-host David Flair you want to the cube the leader in live tech coverage this is our third day of coverage at AWS reinvent 2018 our sixth year covering this event that keeps getting bigger and bigger Dave at 53,000 people amazing place is still jam we still barely have our voices 18 Cockroft is here he's a vice president of cloud architecture and strategy very well known in the industry q Balam thanks so much for coming back on thank you yeah it's the I've been to all of the reinvents we've been far as the customer and then we've been off of one but we watched remotely and hung on every word you know back when there wasn't a lot of information about a DMS now it's like too much information to process it's gonna take us months to sort through it all but at any rate it's it's a phenomenal opportunity for us to to learn to share to inspire folks and you do with some great work talk a little bit about you know some of the fun stuff you're working on and in your current role yeah I have a few different things I do one is one part of my role as I go around the world giving keynotes AWS summits but mostly I call it doing one of Ogle's impressions his deck and I get to presented around the world so we have to digest all of this stuff into a 90-minute deck that we can take to around the world that's a you know what do you leave out there's some it's it's harder and harder every year so that's a lot of fun but the team that I run for AWS I mean recruiting and running is around open-source right and we do we sponsor various events we members of various foundations we make contributions to projects and have been helping that by hiring people from the open-source communities into AWS to help help some of the edge over service teams with their launches of open-source related projects so what I've got what's been happening this year is had like a hundred blog posts related to open source lots of tweets lots of activity lots of events like ask on all things open in coupe car so be there in a couple of weeks exciting to you guys probably again but this week there are a few of the launches where we got quite deeply involved we did a blog posts on the open source blog most at the same time as Jeff fires okay here's the service and here's the open source part of it this is how you contribute and this is what's going on so we've had some fun with that so but it was it two years ago when we first met you've just been on the job for about a month about that particular time and you laid out what you wanted to do in terms of from your previous experience about how you wanted to turn AWS into a an open-source contributor how would you rate yourself in two years I think we've made some good progress really made me a AWS was making contributions to open source but had nobody talking about it and nobody know it was nobody's job to go out and explain what we were doing so that what part of the problem two years ago it was actually more happening so most people knew about but we were just not telling the story and it said it wasn't coming across well and the culture and the culture I mean it was spotty like some parts of AWS were doing a lot of open source other parts we're kind of not really seeing it as a priority so by talking a lot more about it we kind of get a more uniform acceptance across AWC huge organized just there but Amazon as a whole we are actually telling that story the story a much broader story than just AWS and be able to bring that and get everyone go oh this i see everyone doing it so i should be doing that so it helps create the the the leadership for more teams to follow and what we've seen in with you know really the first year building the team the last year kind of getting the content flowing and getting the processes kind of working to get all the all of the different events and blog posts and out the outbound part grips getting increasing number of contributions and launches so now Corrado was a few weeks ago so it you need us launch but that was that was an example that was it's a lot a lot happened from my team from Aaron Gupta my team his a Java champion he used to be at Sun he was a worked at Red Hat on J bar so he's like he knows everybody in Java has great credibility across the Java community and he said we should launch this product in Belgium at like midnight or so you know West Coast time and let's fly in James Gosling and like to a secret like get him on stage without anyone knowing he's gonna do it and do the introduction so it's like this totally crazy idea and it came off beautifully and we even had the the you know the Oracle Java people saying nice things about it the contributions to open JDK just just a really nice example of figuring it out all that get everybody on board get everything done right and then say here's something that matters to the community that we can contribute it'll show up on the rooftop complete thanks the star power thing but mincing James to do it was a right around a lot of credit for that that particular launch but you know this is the kind of people I have on my team and we're like we're pulling them in and pointing them at okay can you help this team figure out how to take this open-source project to market now I mean that was a major contribution to the open-source community and it was just in time wasn't it but another slight view would might be that you and Oracle should have been working this out until not leaving it until the last minute but I mean we were doing this work anyway right okay we're effectively self-supporting our own version of Java or internally we were getting better performance and better sooner bug fixes on open JDK so it made a decision to just move to the open JDK dream and we were just unhooking our internal use of the of the other the other options we have home mix you know a very large organization along for you acquire lots of different versions and flavors of Java you notice this one language so we like clean it up let's get JDK 8 and 10 we're self supporting it and then we announce to our cave will support our Amazon Linux version right and the final step was like the customers were saying please just like supportive on my laptop and anywhere else I need it and the thing we didn't announce then we didn't make a big thing out and arm support we didn't we kind of it was in there by default we didn't talk about it because the ARM chips came out this week so hey and part of it was also have exactly the same version of Java now on all of the Amazon Linux is even the the Intel AMD and arm so that helps the compatibility for people kind of going well it's a different processor architectures ties together so it was all part of the thinking if you didn't want to tip your hand on the announcement this young is right ok so I think sometimes a AWS is misunderstood partly from its own doing I mean you just mentioned you contribute a lot to open-source but you never talked about it generally when AWS doesn't have something to say they don't say a lot about it so others are left to you know make the narrative you come on you've now got an open-source agenda can you just sort of summarize what that motivation is and what the objectives are well we have you know lots of different pieces of this but you have service teams saying I'm gonna launch this product and there's an open source component to it can you help and sometimes that means I hire someone in my team to specialize in that area sometimes it's just our consulting with the team we may know connecting them to the open-source community so that's one piece of it is having that if you think about CN CF in particular cloud native computing foundation that's got lots of projects if you think about the AWS service teams no one team really owns the scope of CN CF but my team has that ownership for CN CF as a whole we have the board seat position and we say ok we have the serval as people over here we've got some entertaining things over here there's some Linux kernel virtualization bits here we can reach out to lots of different teams across AWS but act as a central point where you have something about open-source you want to talk about with with AWS or Amazon even as a whole you can come to us and we'll find the right people and we'll help you make those connections so part of it is acting as an on-ramp for the sort of buffer between the internal the external concerns of the communities there's somewhere to go and partly just getting contributions out there and what we could gain criticized for not making enough contributions well we've been making more and we're making more and we'll just keep making more contributions until people give credit for it and that's that's the if you're like what's the strategy contribute more and then tell people point at it and hope the people like what we did and take the input no it's the customer driven thing right we're gonna do what our customers ask us to do and their customer community focus on the things we want to do and we've been contributing to spinnaker the the Netflix OSS project we made some serious contributions to that in the this year firecracker myths which talk about that a bit and the Robo maker that those are all areas where we've been working with firecracker is particularly interesting isn't it I mean that's a major contribution of improving the performance and capability of those micro VMs yeah can you talk about that a little bit yeah it's the baby it's interesting because it's a piece of software pretty much no one will ever see your use it's the thing you run on the bare metal but lets you run your container Dee that lets you run your container on top right well it's deep down in the guts of the system there's this piece of code but we we kind of there's a few reasons we're using it particularly in production now with its supporting some of our production use of Fargate and lambda there in the middle it's not a hundred centraal out but there's a good chunk of the capacity running on it and that's where it turns out to be useful and just to cook how long we have to get into this but if you think about a customer running a lambda function we would put create a VM with that lambda function in it if they wanted a second lambda function we put it alongside that one no the customer comes and we start a new VM for them and we start a lambda function in that VMs take a while to start up so you have cancer pre-made some sitting there waiting but these are big VMs and we're putting lots of little functions in them what what firecracker lets you do is start a separate micro VM for every function and safely put all of the customers on one machine so you start packing them in it's a much more efficient way to run your capacity our utilization of those machines supporting lambda is vastly higher than having a machine with a bunch of empty space in it that we're trying to weight running for running for the customer so it's that efficiency is the thing and then the speed of starting a VM it's a very it's a very cut-down VM so it's 125 milliseconds with just to start the VM which is incredibly fast when you think hey give me a VM on ec2 it's you know they're in kinda like 30 seconds to a few minutes like I get 12 terabyte VM takes a little while to boot up but you don't have to pay for it till it finished including my good things about these huge machines right how about Robo maker can you talk a little bit about that and it's important so a rubber makers interesting on the open source blog which we posted on Slate on Sunday night early on Monday morning I did an interview with Brian Goerke who's the founder of the open robotics foundation and what we've done there is it's kind of an extension of sage maker if you think about that being AI if you've got these eight where I can deploy an AI model what is the AI model I want to do it wants to read something from the real world and modified the real word so it's a read from a camera or at some of the sensor and then control motors and servos and that's what Robo maker does it wraps the intelligence you can build with sage maker with the robotic operating system that has actually a library of actuators and a library of algorithms control algorithms you've got little brain in the middle and you've got a new robot that does something and we had the the Robo racer low racing car to which where all of these things come together to make an old toy race car that we can drive around tracks which is a whole other topic we get into but what interviewed Brian on what is the history of Rose the robotic operating system where did it come from you know what is the hard thing about running in it turns out the hard thing with Rose wasn't building the robots it was simulating the robots and the simulators quite a CPU intensive job it's graphics intensive you got this virtual world you're running and VR worlds are quite intensive and getting that installed and running was the hard part so what what what robot maker is is that as the service it's this simulator is called gazebo just a funny name so gazebo as a service is the actual service that effectively were charging for with a free tier so you can play with it and then we charge you for the sort of simulation units like how much computing time you're using when the rest of it is all you know cloud9 for the front end and deployment of fleets of data to fleets the robots and updating them and managing them but they're interesting thing is this is getting into like the people that the field of the first robotic thing is high schools high school robotic competitions they're interested yeah universities are interested in a university solar so we kind of it's not just for commercial production robots it's the whole training thing we're getting into STEM education if kids like playing with robots it's like Center and we're pulling all this in so now you can go home and take these like the latest most advanced AI algorithms that used to have to be doing a PhD at Stanford to be playing with and play with your kid you know over Christmas and see what you can come up with really simplifying the whole software development side of that when you look at the Dean came in competitions we're just awesome yeah all the kids they could have gravitate to the hardware cuz they can touch the software was really hard and and and this is gonna I think take a new level is particularly enough and it's all open source yeah you can go yes oh you've got this robot there no no I pointed them somebody who's complaining that we'd done it and no it was some proprietary robot thingy with the toy cars and I pointed them at the github URL it's that you can go build this thing it's all open source you can put anything else you want on it but the robot cars robot has rolls on it the robotic operating system H maker Robo maker all combined together and they're off running races and having all having fun now you guys are both Formula one fans yeah and you guys have been having some you know profile of Formula One folks here you got the little the mini vehicle riff on that really open source but I have another like thing I'm doing on the site it turns out the over the last year or so we started looking for opportunities to do sports sponsorship with a particular focus on Europe and the rest of the world we had a few US sports where they I don't know something with balls I like I like sports with wheels so about the middle of last year like this June we announced the deal with Formula One which is a multi-part deal part of the deal was just take them to the cloud that they have some data centers stuff they were running at a space and their data center is like no they wanted to do a technology refresh so for all the reasons that everyone else is moving to cloud we moved the sports core infrastructure to cloud over some number of years right so that's a process for starting and part of that is the archive of all Formula One races it's a treasure trove like 67 years of archive of everything they've got all the videos were digitizing it we're gonna figure out what to do what you know we've got to process it to label everything anyway so that's one thing and then we went turned up it we all turned up at Silverstone in the UK at that race it was the week after the announcement and that race we have a do as logos turning up on the screen because another piece was sponsorship so we start sponsoring the core video feed that Formula One uses to the world and that's 500 million fans watch Formula One so now 500 million fans for the next few years they're going to see a dope race logos on screen around the analytical insights of what is going on in the sport the odd rear tires are overheating you went round a corner this fast here's the pit stop strategy so we brand advertising associate with a high-technology sport and analytical insights and that's why we did that deal and they get all of our technology AI a lot of help helping them migrate and then the third thing we did that I got involved with was I'd already done a few CIO summits at Formula One races along the way so I was kind of like trying to poke my way into this thing that was happening I'm not involved in sponsorship set up right so hang on if you've done that thing yet and then them so we decided to do some executive events around Formula one so we'll pick a few races we'll have some you know corporate hospitality like things but when you put a bunch of senior executives together for a few days they share they solve each other's problems and you just get out of the way and they know the people that have solved one problem will share it with the other so it's a really it's like a tiny reinvent right here everyone is sharing if you sit next to someone what problem have you sold you can find stuff out so this is a concentrated version of that and we retired it in Monza earlier this year went great amazing I mean it's fun and it you know next to the business so it finally was like can we get someone on the car on Reba okay who's in Abu Dhabi on Saturday can we get them on Sunday night for the launch for the robot slut no this is like top guy in Formula One got here from Abu Dhabi if by Wednesday morning I'm just happy that they got here yeah that was that was a huge tire cube team we've watched your career you've been somebody who you know shares his knowledge and done some great work so thank you so much for coming back in the cube like that congratulations on all your great work Andy Jesse's coming up next we're excited about that keeper right to everybody we'll be back with our next guest Andy Jesse CEO of AWS right - this short break [Music]

>> Voiceover: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back everyone to The Cube's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge 2018, #Know18. I'm Rebecca Knight your host, along with my co-host Dave Vellante. We have two guests joining us, we have Mitch Kenfield who is an Advisory Principal CIO advisory at KPMG, And Adrian Hubbard, Service and Process Manager at Linklaters, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Adrian, I want to start with you. Can you describe for our viewers what was sort of happening, what was going on at Linklaters, sort of the inflection point when you realized you needed to step up your game in this arena, and just lay that our for our viewers. >> Yeah, I think, from Linklaters' point of view, we're very much, kind of, use the telephone more than anything else, it's very much a contact organization through voice. And we wanted to implement a platform that would engage the users in a different way, more to be self-serving, more chats, more routes to service, if you like. And we saw ServiceNow as the right tool for that. We did some due diligence, an RFP process, but that wasn't enough, we had to build a strong business case to make sure we were doing the right things. And that's where we kind of reached out to KPMG to see what they could offer us in this space. >> Talk more about your business, and-- >> So we're a global firm, we're kind of part of the magical circle, so there's four or five in that arena we call our strong peers. And yeah, as I say, fairness can be very challenging, their day themselves needs to be very efficient and very effective, and they don't always want to have to tell Serve. So one of our challenges is the more time they spend with us the less time they're billing their clients, which is obviously the revenue of the firm. But then when you've got 450 plus partners they all feel they want to run the firm in a way that perhaps is regional, office-based. So some of those challenges play into delivering service also. >> You talked about doing your due diligence, how did you go about that? What was the, what was your process? >> So we engaged with a consultancy firm to help us through the process. Through that, we worked out where do we want to get to, our vision. We short-listed some top-set firms, there was about three or four on the list that we knew met the requirement. So we then went through the process of the next layer down and series of workshops with each provider. Obviously, there was a cost model, we got supplier guys involved from a contract perspective, tried to get the best price. But I think deep down we always felt ServiceNow was the right fit for us. And I've been at Linklaters six years, when I first joined Linklaters that time ago, we went through the same process. We chose the different tool then, but ServiceNow was in the list and we really would have liked to have gone there six years ago. But I think ServiceNow have improved a lot during that time, and now was the right time for us to choose them. >> It was the one that got away, and now you've brought it back. >> Absolutely, yeah, yeah. >> So, Linklaters reached out to you, so then describe about, describe how you sort of shepherded them through the process? >> Yeah, so they had reached out in our London office, and I guess I had happened to be there and jumped on the phone with them, and first of all, when Adrian mentions about the culture of a law firm, so we are a consulting firm you know, consultants and tax and audit and finance folks, so we kind of understand that, it's kind of like the industry where everybody's the boss and nobody's the boss. So we jumped on the phone, and one thing that I mentioned as Adrian was describing, is that we see this space as an opportunity to truly change the way the technology business is running, and therefore change the ultimate business. >> Adrian: Yeah. >> And so, we tell our clients a lot, if you're just going to kind of implement, it might not be the right thing for you. But if you're ready to transform the way you run technology, and the way that supports the business, we think we can help, and we brought something to them that we call Powered IT, which I can give some details on, but just at the highest levels it's our view of an accelerated transformation that includes some technology components, but more than that includes operating models and process to say let's not reinvent things, let's bring to you what's good, and that way we can spend our time focusing on the specifics for you, to get you to the business result you're looking for, and that was kind of that first conversation we had. >> Sure. >> The word "agile transformation" is popping into my head. It's such a common theme today, but is it relevant to what we're talking about? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, I'll start, Adrian, and maybe you can give your perspective on it. When we bring our view, and again, we call it Powered just as a tag, but really what it is, it's an acceleration. It's the components from an organizational aspect's process, metrics, supporting ServiceNow with some kind of near-the-box configurations to add in to that. And then, to your question, it's how do we deliver that in an agile way, where you see it constantly. We don't take six months before we show something, you're seeing it regularly and we can course correct and tweak to say we have a limited amount of effort we can spend, let's spend that in that agile methodology for things that transform you sooner and get it done. Would you, what was y'all's reaction? >> Yeah, to add to that, so what's really important for me is that we hadn't worked with KPMG before although, we were talking early doors, we didn't know what this Powered IT was, what it would bring us. So we made sure we had a number of kind of pre-sales workshops, where I could see the product and they've got a very strong environment where I could see exactly was I was going to get at the end, which is important for me because there's always a risky element, going in with a new incumbent, it was going to be success of this, or not, and I had to be sure that we did the right risk assessment. So actually, to be able to be provided with that kind of out-of-the-box experience, because often you go into sales call, or into the RFP process, and then you come out the back end of it and actually you see, actually getting what you saw in that sales demo. So it's important that we did that extra look. So I think we're able to see the end product, if you like, and then through talking with Mitch and the team and the UK guys, we then knew what the approach would be, very agile and quite aggressive as well. We delivered end-to-end in 14 weeks, which, considering that it took us from the old tool to ServiceNow, it took us from the old way of working to a new way of working on day one. We switched the old tool off on day one. There was a lot going on, it was... you know, we had to really stick to scope, as well, to manage mistake holders. >> I'm interested in how you managed risk, because that's the one thing that popped into my head. When you transform and your business processes are affected you know, you want to move fast, but there are dependencies. So how did you identify those, how did you guys manage the risks? >> I think, in terms of... We were quite strong on what our service improvement plans were looking like, we knew that we needed a new tool, we knew the tool would unlock it, but we didn't know is the extras that KPMG would bring through the Powered IT. So it's more than just the tool set itself, it's actually the processes and the policies. So because we're able to look at those day one, we knew what the end product was going to be. And plus we went with the preferred Powered IT platform. What we didn't try to do was to impose our current way of thinking. We took the KPMG way of thinking, which was the less risky approach, it meant that we weren't customizing, which was a big danger for us, potentially. So we also knew it was fully supported, because KPMG have put this Powered IT module together, built with other clients as well, so we knew we were adopting best practices from other clients. But actually it was fitting, the way we needed to get to from our vision. I think the thing that made me a little bit nervous was we'd been through a number of maturity assessments over the years that said our processes were quite mature. Where we were weak, really, was some of the reporting, the visibility of performance. So again, but they were kind of the key things from risk assessment, let's make sure the key things we could see working. And then we knew the risk was less. But, you know, as always, when you engage with a new incumbent for the first time, we had to make sure that we met the team as well, that was also a key part for us, to make sure the people we'd be working with, from day one, we met them at the beginning. And they stayed throughout. So that was also very good for us. >> So, Adrian, I'm curious about your particular experience, and then Mitch, I wonder if you could chime in on other clients that you might see. You always hear, "You got to have buy-in from the C-suite, top down." But when you go change the operating model, I often hear, the senior management goes, and then the rest of the company's like, "Well, we got to run the business," and they're trying to catch up. >> Yep. >> Is that a common problem? How do you guys deal with that? >> I think our senior team have been in place, they've been very supportive. There hasn't really been an issue there. And a lot of the senior team also supported the decision to go ServiceNow, which is important for me. I have to say, not all parts of the IT organization thought it was the right decision, but we had to demonstrate that as we went through, and the series of workshops was important, early doors. So we made sure we engaged the right stakeholders, they felt part of the whole solution end-to-end. And yes, people tried to push the scope at times, tried to scope creep, but actually senior management were very good and supportive of me to stick to scope. Stick to what we've agreed to do, help me push back certain people when they became challenging. And because we stuck to that scope, we delivered on-time. The fear would've been, as you know, you customize, you go off track-- >> I think what we see, to your analogy and I think your degree, you have to have that senior commitment. There can't be a question of why. But what breaks down often is that kind of next layer of key managers and stakeholders that maybe didn't show up to that meeting, and you know, didn't, you know... And those are the little things that can kind of take it off rail. And to your question earlier about agile, the great thing about a well-executed agile methodology is not about doing agile configuration it's about doing agile business transformation. It's about having regular interaction points where those stakeholders are involved in the process. And every day they're in those sessions and they're seeing something, and they get the chance, and we connect together. And that's what gets you to the end of it, to where instead of just in 14 weeks, we deployed a technology that kind of feels the same way we used to work. You deploy a technology and people are doing things different, and that's a key aspect. >> Dave: Lot of repetition. >> A lot of repetition. >> A lot of overcommunicating-- >> And we tell our clients a lot, it's going to be a rough 14 weeks, because you're going to be involved. This isn't the old-- >> Adrian: You didn't tell me that. >> Well (laughs). It's not where you're going to give me requirements we're going to go away and build something and hope we got it right and you're going to say, like you said, "That's not, wait, I thought I was going to get..." We're going to be in it and the teams are working collaboratively, stand up meetings, and all those kind of things. And it can be interesting, and for many of our clients, it changes the way they think about programs, right? >> So how's it going? I mean, what's the business impact been? >> It's been really positive. Of course, it talks for itself, it's really good. The fact that you've got 20 thousand people here kind of demonstrates that, but it is the industry platform, and there isn't anything that comes close to it, if we're being honest. But in terms of where we are now, we are gaining a lot of benefit from the dashboards, the reporting. We've still got to make sure the quality of data is good, of course, but actually visualizing our performance is really powerful. But we've also introduced new ways of interacting with our user base, so chat is a big thing for us. We now have a user pool to what we want to market out to the firm. So we're trying to get away from the telephone as the first point of contact, and move into other contact areas, like the portal. So that's the kind of areas that we need to kind of market outwards. But we're about three months in from go live. So we're now kind of looking back on some of the improvements already that we want to make, so looking at how we're using it, working with teams on using it better. So the improvement cycle is kicking in. And we've already made some minor improvements, and there will be more to come. >> So you avoided custom mods-- >> Yes. - Which is very important because the allure of custom modifications, it's so attractive, and then you know, you get technical debt and stuck with it. What have you learned, if you had a mulligan, would you choose anything differently? >> Yeah, it's an interesting point, because I think one of the things we could've done better already was the training. Because what was really powerful about Powered IT, there was training material, we had to kind of adapt that for our own change process, of course. Understanding our culture and how training with Linklaters, isn't necessarily the same as perhaps other technology firms, where they're expected to sell flurn. Very much the model at Linklaters is kind of classroom-led training, that tends to be our culture. And we perhaps didn't do enough of that before go live. So yes, everyone went live day one, they could log a ticket, but they couldn't unlock all the other benefits that we were really trying to deliver. So I guess that training's one of those areas that you could always overdo, but I think I would go back and arrange training earlier, make sure people know the training's coming, make sure their diaries are free as well, because we're all busy people. But I think, yeah, I think for now, I think we did a good job in the 14 weeks, but I'd come back and look at training again. >> And when was your go live? >> We went live on the 12th of February, this year. >> Oh okay, and single CMDB is the vision, or goal, or? >> Yeah, so we went live with the CMDB, we're now able to populate that out, and everyone knows that can be a pain point. So that's one of the kind of evolutions we're going through now, but as I said, we switched off the old tool on the day one, so we had to make sure the customer-facing processes were working, that we could may control changes, problem management could deal with issues that reoccur. So all of that was in place, but actually we've unlocked the power of the tool for visibility, managing the tasks across teams is quite big for us, as well. But that whole transparency of data has really improved the way we work. >> Rebecca: Great. >> I think one aspect, to play on your question, there are certain aspects of the platform in that transformation that you may not do all, but you need to design an architecture right the first time. So on the CMDB, you might not have it all the way populated, but if it's not architected with a good CMDB data model, it'll catch up later on, to your point. And so, a lot of, I think, that effort is a certain amount of time you have to show value, and then you lay that groundwork, you start improving, and then you make the decision of if and when do we expand into new things. When do we move into new areas, outside of the core, and those kind of things. >> For you know this, Mitch, too, and one of... I'm going to comment, maybe you could... You could give me your observations, early on in the ServiceNow, before the big ascendancy, a lot of mistakes were made, in terms of companies not standardizing, getting the CMDB architecture right, for a lot reasons, you had politics, people were trying to slide it in. And now you see a much more consistent vision around CMDB, how to architect it, single CMDB, one throat to choke, essentially. >> Yeah, I agree totally, and I think if you look at the ecosystem of what this all is, you have to level set on it, it was drastically different from a platform perspective, and three or four years ago to now. And to your point, I think there were a lot of relatively quick implementations, if you will. And again, quick implementation is okay, as long as it's architected and thought through for the long term, and I think we're seeing in the market some implementations that maybe made some short cuts, if you will, but to your point, the things that you got to get right, you got to get the CMDB and the data model, that layer, right. You got to get the employee experience right. You only get one chance to set an employee experience. If you underwhelm, then you've lost that audience, right? Then they're like, "Eh, well, yeah," you know? And you only get one chance to have some transformation, and it doesn't have to be going from crawling to, you know, sprinting, but if you go from crawling and it feels kind of the same way, you lose interest in expanding the capabilities. So I think that's, we've all, you know, the ecosystem has learned from that, and there are some things that you've got to get correct, and what we try to do with our clients is try to say, "Hey, let's not argue about those things, right, let's not start with a whiteboard and argue about the things that should be the same for Linklaters, that should be the same for anybody." Let's get that 80% where it's, let's focus on the things that are specific to you and not deal with that common stuff. >> Right, capture their attention right away. >> Absolutely. And we use a term internally, and sometimes with our clients too, everybody knows the 80/20 rule, right? You do 80% of it, you just should stop, it's not worth the effort. We switch that, we say 20% is what makes it work for you. We should just power through the 80% that should be the same for everybody else, and the 20% that makes it work for you. How do you deal with employee experience in a law firm, right, where everybody are knowledge workers, that have all, that's very different than employee experience in a, you know, industrial manufacturing firm, right? So that's what matters and what makes it transformational to a specific organization. >> And you're in Jakarta, or Kingston? >> We're on Jakarta-- >> Yeah, okay. - Yeah. >> Great. >> And again, because it's delivered through Powered IT, KPMG do a lot of the testing, once the new version's available, it's their offer to us in terms of making sure it's fit for purpose for their Powered IT platform. And as been said, it's the 20% that we've configured for Linklaters is what we need to test. >> So we're big believers, and John mentioned it this morning of only stay one behind at most. We're big believers in we should help our clients learn what's in the new upgrade, and how it applies to them. So we've heard this week, there's some great things coming out with London, some new things in the experience, and some automations, and so on. So our job is to bring that to our clients with Powered, and say, "Yep, we're ready, here's what's in it, and by the way, here's what they've advanced, and here's what you should look to add, and let's have that ready for you." >> So, you keep people, at worst, in minus one-- >> Correct. - Is really your objective-- >> And our general advice to clients, is if you need to go to N, if there's functional new capabilities that change your business, go to N right away. If it's more just add-ons, stay at N-1, learn from the others, and keep advancing, but never go later than that, absolutely. >> And but, ServiceNow will allow you to be N-2, right? >> They will. Going forward, they're going to keep you more to N-1-- >> Dave: Pushing you along, right? >> Exactly. So you want to save just one release back and you want to make sure, and again, to use that term I used earlier, as long as you stay near-to-the-box, you know, and out-of-the-box, if you turn it on, you need to add it, get it into your environment, you need tailor it, right? But there's a fine line between staying close to that and doing way too much, and over-configuring, not even customization, just making it to where it's really complex, and that's where we try to keep our clients away from. >> Do they still do cakes, you get a cake? >> Yes. >> Had a good one. >> Yeah, we had a really good one on go live. Yeah, it's actually on LinkedIn so yeah, go and have a look. >> A bunch of law books, it looks really smart. >> It looks really good. >> Yeah, it looked very good. >> And it tasted great, too. (laughing) >> That's important. Adrian, Mitch, thanks so much for coming on The Cube, we had a great time. >> Thank you both. >> You're welcome, thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Dave Vellante, we will have more from ServiceNow Knowledge18, coming up just after this. (music)

>> Announcer: From Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2018. Brought to you by the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome back to the live CUBE coverage here in Copenhagen, Denmark, for KubeCon 2018, Kubernetes European conference. This is theCUBE, I'm John Furrier, my co-host Lauren Cooney here with Adrian Cockcroft who is the Vice President of Cloud Architecture and Strategy for Amazon Web Services, AWS. CUBE alumni, great to see you, a legend in the industry, great to have you on board today. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks very much. >> Quick update, Amazon, we were at AWS Summit recently, I was at re:Invent last year, it gets bigger and bigger just continue to grow. Congratulations on successful great earnings. You guys posted last week, just continuing to show the scale and leverage that the cloud has. So, again, nothing really new here, cloud is winning and the model of choice. So you guys are doing a great job, so congratulations. Open source, you're handling a lot of that now. This community here, is all about driving cloud standards. >> Adrian: Yeah. >> Your guys position on that is? Standards are great, you do what customers want, as Andy Jassy always says, what's the update? I mean, what's new since Austin last year? >> Yeah, well, it's been great to be back on had a great video of us talking at Austin, it's been very helpful to get the message out of what we're doing in containers and what the open source team that I lead has been up to. It's been very nice. Since then we've done quite a lot. We were talking about doing things then, which we've now actually done and delivered on. We're getting closer to getting our Kubernetes service out, EKS. We hired Bob Wise, he started with us in January, he's the general manager of EKS. Some of you may know Bob has been working with Kubernetes since the early days. He was on the CNCF board before he joined us. He's working very hard, they have a team cranking away on all the things we need to do to get the EKS service out. So that's been major focus, just get it out. We have a lot of people signed up for the preview. Huge interest, we're onboarding a lot of people every week, and we're getting good feedback from people. We have demos of it in the booth here this week. >> So you guys are very customer-centric, following you guys closely as you know. What's the feedback that you're hearing and what are you guys ingesting from an intelligence standpoint from the field. Obviously, a new constituent, not new, but a major constituent is open source communities, as well as paying enterprise customers? What's the feedback? What are you hearing? I would say beyond tire kicking, there's general interest in what Kubernetes has enabled. What's Amazon's view of that? >> Yeah, well, open source in general is always getting a larger slice of what people want to do. Generally, people are trying to get off of their enterprise solutions and evolving into an open source space and then you kind of evolve from that into buying it as a service. So that's kind of the evolution from one trend, custom or enterprise software, to open source to as a service. And we're standing up all of these tools as a service to make them easier to consume for people. Just, everybody's happy to do that. What I'm hearing from customers is that that's what they're looking for. They want it to be easy to use, they want it to scale, they want it to be reliable and work, and that's what we're good at doing. And then they want to track the latest moves in the industry and run with the latest technologies and that's what Kubernetes and the CNCF is doing, gathering together a lot of technologies. Building the community around it, just able to move faster than we'd move on our own. We're leveraging all of those things into what we're doing. >> And the status of EKS right now is in preview? And the estimated timetable for GA? >> In the next few months. >> Next few months. >> You know, get it out then right now it's running in Oregon, in our Oregon data center, so the previews are all happening there. That gets us our initial thing and then everyone go okay, we want to in our other regions, so we have to do that. So another service we have is Fargate, which is basically say just here's a container, I want to run it, you don't have to declare a node or an instance to run it first. We launched that at re:Invent, that's already in production obviously, we just rolled that out to four regions. That's in Virginia, Oregon, Dublin and Ohio right now. A huge interest in Fargate, it lets you simplify your deployments a little bit. We just posted a new blog post that we have an open source blog, you can find if you want to keep up with what's going on with the open source team at AWS. Just another post this morning and it's a first pass at getting Fargate to work with Kubernetes using Virtual Kubelet which is a project that was kicked off by, it's an experimental project, not part of the core Kubernetes system. But it's running on the side. It's something that Microsoft came up with a little while ago. So we now have, we're working with them. We did a pull request, they accepted it, so that team and AWS and a few other customers and other people in the community, working together to provide you a way to start up Fargate as the underlying layer for provisioning containers underneath Kubernetes as the API for doing you know the management of that. >> So who do you work with mostly when you're working in open source? Who do you partner with? What communities are you engaging with in particular? >> It's all over. >> All over? >> Wherever the communities are we're engaging with them. >> Lauren: Okay, any particular ones that stand out? >> Other than CNCF, we have a lot of engagement with Apache Hadoop ecosystem. A lot of work in data science, there's many, many projects in that space. In AI and machine learning, we've sponsored, we've spend a lot of time working with Apache MXNet, we were also working off with TensorFlow by Torch and Caffe and there's a lot, those are all open source frameworks so there's lots of contributions there. In the serverless arena, we have our own SAM service application model. We've been open sourcing more of that recently ourselves and we're working with various other people. Across these different groups there's different conferences you go to, there's different things we do. We just sponsored Rails Conference. My team sponsors and manages most of the open source conference events we go to now. We just did RAILCON, we're doing a Rust conference, soon I think, there's Python conferences. I forget when all these are. There's a massive calendar of conferences that we're supporting. >> Make sure you email us that that list, we're interested actually in looking at what the news and action is. >> So the language ones, AltCon's our flagship one, we'll be top-level sponsor there. When we get to the U.S., CubeCon in Seattle, it's right there, it's two weeks after re:Invent. It's going to be much easier to manage. When we go to re:Invent it's like everyone just wants to take that week off, right. We got a week for everyone to recover and then it's in the hometown. >> You still have that look in your eyes when we interviewed you in Austin you came down, we both were pretty exhausted after re:Invent. >> Yeah, so we announced a bunch of things on Wednesday and Thursday and I had to turn it into a keynote by Tuesday and get everyone to agree. That's what was going on, that was very compressed. We have more time and all of the engineering teams that really want to be at an event like this, were right in the hometown for a lot. >> What's it like workin' at Amazon, I got to ask you it since you brought it up. I mean and you guys run hard at Amazon, you're releasing stuff with a pace that's unbelievable. I mean, I get blown away every year. Almost seems like, inhuman that that you guys can run at that pace. And earnings, obviously, the business results speak for themselves, what's it like there? I mean, you put your running shoes on, you run a marathon every day. >> It's lots of small teams working relatively independently and that scales and that's something other engineering organizations have trouble with. They build hierarchies that slow down. We have a really good engineering culture where every time you start a new team, it runs at its own speed. We've shown that as we add more and more resources, more teams, they are just executing. In fact, their accelerated, they're building on top of other things. We get to build higher and higher level abstractions to layer into. Just getting easier and easier to build things. We're accelerating our pace of innovation there's no slowing down. >> I was telling Jassy they're going to write a Harvard Business School case study on a lot of the management practices, but certainly the impact on the business side with the model that you guys do. But I got to ask you, on the momentum side, super impressed with SageMaker. I predicted on theCUBE at AWS Summit that that will be the fastest growing service. It will overtake Aurora, I think that is currently on stage, presented as the fastest growing service. SageMaker is really popular. Updates there, its role in the community. Obviously, Kubernete's a good fit for orchestrating things. We heard about CubeFlow, is an interesting model. What's going on with SageMaker how is it interplaying with Kubernetes? >> People that want to run, if you're running on-premise, cluster of GPU enabled machines then CubeFlow is a great way of doing that. You're on TensorFlow, that manages your cluster, you run CubeFlow on top. SageMaker is running at very low scale and like a lot of things we do at AWS, what you need to run an individual cluster for any one customer is different from running a multi-tenant service. SageMaker sits on top of ECS and it's now one of the largest generators of traffic to ECS which is Amazon's horizontally scaled, multi-tenant, cluster management system, which is now doing hundreds of millions of container launches a week. That is continuing to grow. We see Kubernetes as it's a more portable abstraction. It has some more, different layers of API's and a big community around it. But for the heavy lifting of running tens of thousands of containers in for a single application, we're still at the level where ECS does that every day and Kubernetes that's kind of the extreme case, where a few people are pushing it. It'll gradually grow scale. >> It's evolution. >> There's an evolution here. But the interesting things are, we're starting to get some convergence on some of the interfaces. Like the interfacing at CNA, CNA is the way you do networking on containers and there is one way of doing that, that is shared by everybody through CNA. EKS uses it, BCS uses it and Kubernetes uses it. >> And the impact of customers is what for that? What's the impact? >> It means the networking structures you want to set up will be the same. And the capabilities and the interfaces. But what happens on AWS is because it has a direct plug-in, you can hook it up to our accelerated networking infrastructure. So, AWS's instances right now, we've offloaded most of the network traffic processing. You're running 25 gigabits of traffic, that's quite a lot of work even for a big CPU, but it's handled by the the Nitro plug-in architecture we have, this in our latest instance type. So if you talked a bit about that at re:Invent but what you're getting is enormous, complete hypervisor offload at the core machine level. You get to use that accelerated networking. You're plugging into that interface. But that, if you want to have a huge number of containers on a machine and you're not really trying to drive very high throughput, then you can use Calico and we support that as well. So, multiple different ways but all through the same thing, the same plug-ins on both. >> System portability. You mentioned some stats, what's the numbers you mentioned? How many containers you're launching a week, hundreds of thousands? On ECS, our container platform that's been out for a few years, so hundreds of millions a week. It's really growing very fast. The containers are taking off everywhere. >> Microservices growth is, again that's the architecture. As architecture is a big part of the conversation what's your dialogue with customers? Because the modern software architecture in cloud, looks a lot different than what it was in the three layered approach that used to be the web stack. >> Yeah, and I think to add to that, you know we were just talking to folks about how in large enterprise organizations, you're still finding groups that do waterfall development. How are you working to kind of bring these customers and these developers into the future, per se? >> Yeah, that's actually, I spend about half my time managing the open source team and recruiting. The other half is talking to customers about this topic. I spend my time traveling around the world, talking at summits and events like this and meeting with customers. There's lots of different problems slowing people down. I think you see three phases of adoption of cloud, in general. One is just speed. I want to get something done quickly, I have a business need, I want to do it. I want machines in minutes instead of months, right, and that speeds everything up so you get something done quickly. The second phase is where you're starting to do stuff at scale and that's where you need cloud native. You really need to have elastic services, you can scale down as well as up, otherwise, you just end up with a lot of idle machines that cost you too much and it's not giving you the flexibility. The third phase we're getting into is complete data center shutdown. If you look at investing in a new data center or data center refresh or just opening an AWS account, it really doesn't make sense nowadays. We're seeing lots of large enterprises either considering it or well into it. Some are a long way into this. When you shut down the data center all of the backend core infrastructure starts coming out. So we're starting to see sort of mainframe replacement and the really critical business systems being replaced. Those are the interesting conversations, that's one of the areas that I'm particularly interested in right now and it's leading into this other buzzword, if you like, called chaos engineering. Which is sort of the, think of it as the availability model for cloud native and microservices. We're just starting a working group at CNCF around chaos engineering, is being started this week. So you can get a bit involved in how we can build some standards. >> That's going to be at Stanford? >> It's here, I mean it's a working group. >> Okay, online. >> The CNCF working group, they are wherever the people are, right. >> So, what is that conversation when you talk about that mainframe kind of conversation or shut down data centers to the cloud. What is the key thing that you promote, up front, that needs to get done by the by the customer? I mean, obviously you have the pillars, the key pillars, but you think about microservices it's a global platform, it's not a lift and shift situation, kind of is, it shut down, but I mean not at that scale. But, security, identity, authentication, there's no perimeter so you know microservices, potentially going to scale. What are the things that you promote upfront, that they have to do up front. What are the up front, table stake decisions? >> For management level, the real problem is people problems. And it's a technology problem somewhere down in the weeds. Really, if you don't get the people structures right then you'll spend forever going through these migrations. So if you sort of bite the bullet and do the reorganization that's needed first and get the right people in the right place, then you move much faster through it. I say a lot of the time, we're way upstream of picking a technology, it's much more about understanding the sort of DevOps, Agile and the organizational structures for these more cellular based organizations, you know, AWS is a great example of that. Netflix are another good example of that. Capital One is becoming a good example of that too. In banking, they're going much faster because they've already gone through that. >> So they're taking the Amazon model, small teams. Is that your general recommendation? What's your general recommendation? >> Well, this is the whole point of microservices, is that they're built by these small teams. It's called Conway's law, which says that the code will end up looking like the team, the org structure that built it. So, if you set up a lots of small teams, you will end up with microservices. That's just the way it works, right. If you try to take your existing siloed architecture with your long waterfall things, it's very hard not to build a monolith. Getting the org structure done first is right. Then we get into kind of the landing zone thing. You could spend years just debating what your architecture should be and some people have and then every year they come back, and it's changing faster than they can decide what to do. That's another kind of like analysis paralysis mode you see some larger enterprises in. I always think just do it. What's the standard best practice, layout my accounts like this, my networks like this, my structures we call it landing zone. We get somebody up to speed incredibly quickly and it's the beaten path. We're starting to build automation around these on boarding things, we're just getting stuff going. >> That's great. >> Yeah, and then going back to the sort of chaos engineering kind of idea, one of the first things I should think you should put into this infrastructure is the disaster recovery automation. Because if that gets there before the apps do, then the apps learn to live with the chaos monkeys and things like that. Really, one of the first apps we installed at Netflix was Chaos Monkey. It wasn't added later, it was there when you arrived. Your app had to survive the chaos that was in the system. So, think of that as, it used to be disaster recovery was incredibly expensive, hard to build, custom and very difficult to test. People very rarely run through their disaster recovery testing data center fail over, but if you build it in on day one, you can build it automated. I think Kubernetes is particularly interesting because the API's to do that automation are there. So we're looking at automating injecting failure at the Kubernetes level and also injecting into the underlying machines that are running Good Maze, like attacking the control plane to make sure that the control plane recovery works. I think there's a lot we can do there to automate it and make it into a low-cost, productized, safe, reliable thing, that you do a lot. Rather than being something that everyone's scared of doing that. >> Or they bolted on after they make decisions and the retrofit, pre-existing conditions into a disaster recovery. Which is chaotic in and of itself. >> So, get the org chart right and then actually get the disaster recovery patterns. If you need something highly available, do that first, before the apps turn up. >> Adrian, thanks for coming on, chaos engineering, congratulations and again, we know you know a little about Netflix, you know that environment, and been big Amazon customer. Congratulations on your success, looking forward to keeping in touch. Thanks for coming on and sharing the AWS perspective on theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, Lauren Cooney live in Denmark for KubeCon 2018 part of the CNC at the Cloud Native Compute Foundation. We'll back with more live coverage, stay with us. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

(bright music) >> Hello everyone, welcome to a special Cube Conversation here, in the Palo Alto studios, for theCUBE, I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconeANGLE Media and theCUBE, and cohost of theCUBE. My next guest is Adrian Scott, who is the CEO of Soma Capital and Head of Technology of decent.bet. You can get the idea of that going to be all about, but, industry legend-- >> Yeah. >> Star of the big screen, good to see you, thanks for comin' in. >> Thank you John, it's great to see you. >> I'm glad I wanted to talk to you, because I know you've been doing a lot of traveling, you've been living in Panama, and overseas, outside the US, mainly around the work you've been doing on the crypto side, obviously Blockchain and with the start of decent.bet, lot of great stuff, but congratulations on a successful initial coin offering! >> Thank you. >> Great stuff, but you're also notable in the industry, initial investor in Napster, our generation, first P2P, the first renegade, you know, break down the movie business, but the beginning of what we're now seeing as that decentralized revolution. But you've seen many waves of innovation. You've seen 'em come and go. But this one in particular, Blockchain, decentralized internet, decentralized applications, crypto. Pretty awesome, and lot of young guns are coming in, a lot of older, experienced, alpha entrepreneurs are coming in like yourself, and, we're lookin' at it too. What's your take on it? I mean, how do you talk people that are like, "Well, hey, this is just a scam on the ICS site, "is this real, is it a bubble?" Share your vision on what this is all about, this whole mega-trend, crypto, decentralized. >> And I'll also add, in addition to what you mentioned, the other neat thing here is just the global nature of it. Because we're so used to being Silicon Valley-centric, and having to dig around for funding here, and also, looking only at talent that would move here, whereas with this whole new industry, it's very global, there's global teams, international teams, and, some of the Silicon Valley folks are just struggling to stay relevant, and stay in the game, so that's a fascinating aspect to this new revolution as well. >> And also, the thing I love about this market, it's very efficient, it takes away inefficiencies, in venture capital right now, and private equity being disrupted, that's where the arbitrage is, hence the ICO bubble, but, there is real, legit opportunities, you have Soma Capital, you're an investment fund, that you're doing token investments on. The global nature is interesting, I want to just ask here about this, because, my view is, it changes valuation, it changes valuation mechanisms, it changes the makeup of the venture architecture, it makes up on how people recruit teams, the technology used, and with open source, I mean, this is a first-time view at a new landscape. You can't take a pattern match, model, to this, your thoughts. >> Agree completely, and the efficiency you mentioned, applied to teams, and surfacing engineering talent, and the mathematical minds that can handle crypto internationally, the formation of teams internationally online is actually something special as well, so, with Decent Bet, our team, our founding team includes folks from the US, Panama, Australia, as well, who met up, in a Facebook chat group! And that's how they initially connected, and they didn't know each other physically, before this connection online, and that led to this project, Decent Bet, and ICO, and so on. So it's-- >> You created value from essentially a digital workforce, but, I mean, it reminds me of, like in the old days, you'd chat, and it wasn't a lot of face-to-face, but then now there's video gaming culture, you know, you come in, "Hey, you want to play a game," people don't even know each other, and get a visual, and also an immersive experience with each other. This is now the application for entrepreneurial equations, so this kind of gaming, the game is startups! So how are you looking at this, and how are you investing in it, what are some of the things, and what can people learn from what we're seeing in this new game-ified, if you will, you know, world of starting companies? >> I think one of the things you alluded to there has really become visible, which is the importance of video, as a medium, and I'm still, absorbing and adjusting to that myself. For example, we do video communications, we do conversations at Decent Bet, of the founding team, and, it really connects to the community, and it's so important, and I'm still absorbing it, like I mentioned, 'cause I'm just so used to publishing articles that are very clearly written, and detailed, and so on. We just did an AMA video, an Ask Me Anything video, in Las Vegas, with the executive team, and it went for 80 minutes, answering the questions, that the community had all submitted! And I just try and imagine that five years ago, it's new way of relating-- >> 'Cause there was no blogging, link back, the only thing you could do in blogging. >> Yeah. >> And then write a perfect blog post, or white paper. >> Exactly. >> And that was who you were. >> Yeah. >> Not anymore, it's more community driven. >> Exactly, and that video as a piece of it, has become so, so important, as a way of communicating the character of the team, and-- >> Before we get into decent.bet, I want to drill those, I think it's a great use case, and again, congratulations on great work there. I want to ask you about something that I've been fascinated with, because I obviously, our generation, we grew up on open source when it was second-class citizen, now it runs the whole world, as first-tier, first-class citizen in software world. The role of the community was really important in software development, 'cause that kept a, it kept a balance, there was governance, was consensus, these are words that you hear in the crypto world. And now, whether it's content and or ICO, the role of the community, and certainly, areas that's out of control in the ICO site, people are cracking down on certainly, like you see Facebook and Twitter trying to do something, but you can't stop the wisdom of the crowd. The role of the community in this crypto, decentralized market, ICOs and whatnot, is super important. Can you share your thoughts, and color commentary on why the community's so important, how do you deal with it (laughs), any best practices, either through scar tissue, or successes, share your thoughts on this. >> Oh yeah, it's totally become a factor, and it's 24/7, right? So, when you are running a crypto project, you need your community management team to be there, in the community channels, 24/7, you need to have somebody there, and they need to be at a certain level that they can handle the challenging questions! And we've definitely had moments where, we have people who try to create FUD, potentially, you know, and bring up stuff, and bring it up again later and whatnot, and we need to be proactive, so when questions come up, we were there to be able to explain, "Okay, here's where you can see this on the Blockchain. "You can verify it yourself." And sometimes, it happens when the team is just about to get on a plane (laughs), and be out of internet communication for a while, so, it's a real challenge, and there's been the voice of experience, on that. >> So talk about how you guys connect, because obviously, being connected is important with community access, but also, with connection, increases the service area for hacks, are you guys carrying five burner phones each, how do you handle email, how have you guys dealt with the whole, you know, there is a lot of online activity, certainly, people trying to do some spear phishing, or whatever tactics there are. Telegram has been littered with a lot of spoofing, and what not, so, all this is going on, that you got to have access communication. But there's a safety component that could have really big impacts to these businesses, that aren't tokeners, because, hacking can be easy if you don't protect yourself. >> We really like Signal app, as a communications medium, there's a new one, starting to grow now, called Threema, which is pretty interesting. Telegram, is just a real challenge, and it's unfortunate, because it's now become this metric. >> How many people are active on your channels-- >> That investors like to look at the size of the Telegram group, but we don't actually have a Telegram group for Decent Bet. And we've used Slack, we are going to be rolling out a internally hosted Slack replacement soon based on Rocket.Chat, we really like Rocket.Chat. As you mentioned, there are spear phishing, we do see that, and, one of the nice things is, a few years ago, you had trouble convincing a team to take security seriously! But you know, when you have team members who may have lost $10,000 in a hack-- >> Or more! >> Or more, you know, there's no question that this needs to be a priority, and everybody buys in on it. So that is one net positive out of this. >> Well let's talk about Decent Bet, fascinating use case, it's in the gaming area, gaming as in like betting, my friend Paul Martino invested I think in DraftKings, one of those other companies, I forget which one it was. In the US, there was regulatory issues, but, you know, outside the US where I think you guys are, there's not as much issue. Perfect use case for tokens, in my opinion. So, take a minute to explain Decent Bet, what you guys are all about, and talk about the journey of conception, when you guys conceived it, to ICO. >> Yeah. Decent Bet was founded about a year ago, by the CEO Jedidiah Taylor, who developed an interesting idea, and plan, so, the neat thing about Decent Bet is, first of all, you have all the benefits of the Ethereum Blockchain, in terms of verifying, transactions, and verifying the house's take. Additionally, what Decent Bet does is distributes all the profits of the casino back to the token-holders. 95% goes as proportionally, and then 5% is awarded in a lottery, so there's no profit for any Decent Bet entity, it all goes back to the tokenholders. So you use the token to play, by gambling, but you can also use your token to convert into house shares, for a quarter, and participate in-- >> So the house always wins, that a good model, right? >> Yes. >> You could become the house, through the tokens. >> Exactly, so, the motto we use is our house is your house (laughs). >> Don't bet against the house. >> Yeah. >> Alright so, I love the gambling aspect of it, I think that's going to be a winner. Tech-involved, ICO process bumps, learnings, things you could share with folks? >> Yeah, so, on the technology, one of the neat things we are doing is, we do offer a slots game, which is a primary component of online gambling, and casinos, a pretty dominant piece of the action. But, if you are going to do a simple slots game on the Blockchain, and wait around for blocks to be mined, you're not going to have a great experience. 'Cause you're going to be waiting around, more than you're going to be clicking that button. So, what we use is a technology called state channels, which allows us to do a session, kind of on a side channel, so to speak, and through this state channel, at the end of the session, you post back the results. So you get the verifiability of the Blockchain, but without the delay. So that's a major difference. >> That's off chain, right? >> Yeah. >> Or the on chain is off chain. >> It's kind of-- >> So you're managing the league, to see the chain, so you still experience, and then get to preserve it on the chain. >> Exactly-- >> Okay. >> In terms of the ICO experience, we initiated the ICO end of September, ran for a month, raised more than 52,000 Ether, so very productive ICO process, but with actually some interesting details, so, the ICO structure limited the amount that a particular address could purchase, in the first phases, to 10,000 worth, and then 20,000 dollars worth, with the idea of getting the tokens into the hand of, of people who are going to potentially use them for betting, not just-- >> The more the merrier for you, not, no one taking down allocations, big players. >> Exactly. >> Or whales. >> Not just for the whales, take all, kind of thing. So, that was a interesting structure, and-- >> And that worked well? >> Yeah! >> Alright, talk about the dynamic of post-ICO, because now you guys are building, can you give an update on the state of where you guys are at with the product, availability, how that's going, 'cause obviously you raised the capital through the ICO, democratize it if you will through clever mechanism, which is cool, thanks for sharing that, now what happens? Now, what's going on? >> Yeah, I mean, I think we're doing pretty well in terms of hitting milestones, and showing progress compared to a lot of projects, we released our test net, with slots, and then sportsbook, at the beginning of January, and mid-January, for sportsbook. And, we also did some upgrades with our wallet, we released that, for some enhanced usability, and handling during high peaks on the Ether network, Ethereum network. And then, also, our moving to main net. So we did some newer versions of the test net-- >> When did the main net come in? >> Main net is coming out end of April, and we're on track with that. >> Great, awesome. Congratulations, congratulations on a great job, 52,000 Ether, great raise there, and awesome opportunity. Soma Capital. >> Mm-hmm. >> You're investing now, what do you look for for deals, there's more money chasing good deals now, as we can see, has been a flight to quality obviously. Great global landscape still, what are you looking for? And advice to folks who are looking to do a token, sale, what's your-- >> Big thing we look for are real projects, so (laughs), and they're not that many out there, so we do look for a real use case that makes sense, because, there's a lot of folks out there just sticking Blockchain tag onto anything. And it's not just-- >> Like Kodak for instance. >> Yeah. >> Kodak's the prime example. >> Yes. There are projects out there doing interesting things, Guardium is doing some neat things in terms of 911 response, and opening that up, and creating an alternative to government services. There's WorkCoin, which is-- >> Do you invest in Guardium? >> Yeah, in Guardium, yeah. >> I interviewed them in Puerto Rico. >> Okay, great. >> Great project. >> So very interesting, I was recently giving a talk at a university in Guatemala, and, the students there at business school, it really resonated, the message there, to them, about okay, government 911 is maybe not the ultimate solution for getting help when you need it. >> Well I think, there's a lot of this AI for a good concept, going to Blockchain for good, because, you're seeing a lot of these easy, low-hanging fruit applications around these old structural intuitions. And that's where the action is, right, I mean, do you agree? >> Yeah, yes. And the other thing we're looking at is not just Blockchain. So I really like talking about the field more as crypto, and, I have a little video I did on calling it kind of decentralized, crypto-enabled applications, or platforms. So, beyond Blockchain, we have DAGs, Directed Acyclic Graphs, one interesting-- >> Like Hashgraph. >> Yeah, Ha-- >> Hashgraph's a DAG, isn't it? It's kind of a DAG, Hashgraph? >> Yeah, so, I'm not a huge fan of Hashgraph, one that I do like is called Guld, G-U-L-D, which is, again, thinking beyond the Blockchain. 'Cause we get so tied into Blockchain, Blockchain, Blockchain-- >> What does beyond the Blockchain mean to you? Thinking beyond the Blockchain, what does that mean to you? >> So, the proof of work process, the mining process, the creating new blocks process, is one way of doing things. But we have all these other things going on in crypto, like the signing process, and so on, and so, you can use those in a DAG, a different architecture than just this mining new blocks, you know, mental model. And so, that can be used for different use cases, for publishing, for group consensus, and so on. And so, Guld is an example of a project where it looks like there is something real there, and that's a very interesting product. >> Advice for folks that are looking at tokeneries, because, again, we've said this on theCUBE many times, people know, I'm beating this drum, you got the startups, that see an opportunity, which is fantastic, and then on the end of the spectrum, you got the, "Oh, shit, we're out of business, "let's pivot, throw the Hail Mary, put Blockchain on it, "crypto, and get an ICO, and get some going." And then you've got these growth companies that are, either self funded and or growing, that have decentralized kind of feel to it, it has an architecture that's compatible with tokenization. >> Yeah. >> So we see those three categories. Do you agree, am I missing anything? In terms of the profile? And which ones do you like? >> Well, I think one thing that we need to look at, in each of those cases, is decentralization actually happening, in the project? And are people actually thinking about decentralization. Because, it can be scary for a traditional company! Because, if it truly becomes decentralized, you're not controlling it anymore. And so, that is-- >> If you're based on control, then it's incompatible. >> And that's the real Hail Mary, right? (laughs) When you give up that control, if you give it up, so, we have examples coming out, where, you know, Ripple is running just a few nodes, Neo's running a few more, and you know, things that are not really decentralized, and they're saying, "Well, we're going to be," (laughs) you know? >> Will they ever? >> Is it going to be in the future-- >> Yeah, that's always the question, will they ever be? They've already made their money, well certainly Ripple's done well, but, I mean, what's the incentive to go-- >> Yeah. >> Decentralized. >> Yeah, so if, if you are creating a new project, the benefit from this architecture, beyond the money, is to think about it in that decentralized way, and figure out token economics that work, in that context, in that paradigm! And that's really where the challenge is, but also really where some of the benefits can rise, because, that is what enables truly new ways of doing things. >> Talk about the dynamic, because I actually, I live in Silicon Valley, I've been here 19 years, going on 20, you know, I moved from the east coast, and basically, if you weren't here, this is where the action is. If you're in the sports of tech, this is where all the athletes are. That's now changed, as you mentioned earlier, when we started, it's everywhere. Now, also there's jurisdictional issues, I mean the US, one guy's told me, the US is turning into Europe, all these regulations, it's not as much free capital as you think, and then, we certainly know that. With FCC, and others are putting the clamp down. But, structuring the token, is a concern, right? Or consideration. >> Yes. >> And a concern, so, you know, US entrepreneur, what should they do in your opinion, and if someone's outside the US, what do they do? What's the play book, or, not play book, what's the best path right now? >> Leave the US (laughs). Move out of the US. >> Tell that, wife and four kids. See you later. Yeah, but that's real legit, that's-- >> Come and check out Panama, one of my friends is building a Blockchain incubator, crypto-incubator, I mean I think if you're-- >> What's it like to move out of the United States, I know you just recently went to Panama for this, but, what's it like? Is it scary down there, I mean, is it entrepreneurially friendly? What's the vibe, what's the scene like, take a minute to explain that. >> So I've actually been out there 12 years now, in Panama. One of the neat things, you want a place that has an international outlook, international perspectives, so, you want to think in terms of a Dubai, a Singapore, a Hong Kong. And so, Panama has some aspects of that, it's not perfect, but it does have that international perspective thanks to the Canal! So it has, you know, a hundred years! (laughs) >> It also has the Panama papers, which is a negative blowback for those guys, so it's a safe place to do commerce, in your opinion? >> Um, it is a nice geographic base to do international commerce. >> Got it. >> So, you don't necessarily want to rely on the local jurisdiction, but, in terms of a geographic base, that is US time zone, US dollar, no hurricanes, it's a very interesting place. >> Puerto Rico's got the hurricanes, we know that. >> Yeah. >> Final thoughts, just overall perspective, you've been around the block, we've been around the block, both of us have, I mean, I kind of have these pinch me almost like, "Damn, this is great time, "I wish I was 22," I mean, do you have those? What's it like, how you explain this environment? If people ask you, "Hey, what was it like in the old days?" You know, when you have to provision all your own stack, and do all the stuff, it's pretty interesting right now. What's your thoughts? >> Yeah, I mean, I think we're going through an interesting moment right now, where, we are getting to a point where the forces of centralization are coming against the forces of decentralization, and that includes from the regulatory, as well as the business side, and so, I think it is important, as we look where to dedicate our efforts to, to really find ways to increase the decentralization as a factor that encourages creativity, and entrepreneurship. >> Yeah, it really is a personal, I think it's a great environment. Decent.bet, bet, make your bets, any updates on how to get tokens, what people can expect, a quick plug-in for Decent. >> Yeah, check out our website, we've got links to exchanges, the token is currently listed on Cryptotopia, HitBTC, and a couple other exchanges, and, yeah! Please check out the test net, please check out the white paper, and just learn about how this protocol works, this platform works. I think it is very inspiring, as a structure. >> Adrian Scott here, inside theCUBE, Soma Capital, also experienced entrepreneur himself, technologist, and has been through the ICO process, head of technology at decent.net, we'll be checkin' it out, it's theCUBE Conversation, I'm John Furrier, here in Palo Alto, California. Thanks for watching. (bright music)

>> Announcer: Live from Austin, Texas, It's The Cube. Covering KubeCon 2017 and CloudNativeCon 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat, The Lennox Foundation, and The Cube's ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. Live here in Austin, Texas, this is The Cube's exclusive coverage of the CNCF CloudNativeCon which was yesterday, and today is KubeCon, for Kubernetes conference, and a little bit tomorrow as well, some sessions. Our next guest is Adrian Cockcroft, VP of Cloud Architecture Strategy at AWS, Amazon Web Services, and my co-host Stu Miniman. Obviously, Adrian, an industry legend on Twitter and the industry, formerly with Netflix, knows a lot about AWS, now VP of Cloud Architecture, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. >> Thanks very much. >> This is your first time as an AWS employee on The Cube. You've been verified. >> I've been on The Cube before. >> Many times. You've been verified. What's going on now with you guys, obviously coming off a hugely successful reinvent, there's a ton of video of me ranting and raving about how you guys are winning, and there's no second place, in the rear-view mirror, certainly Amazon's doing great. But CloudNative's got the formula, here. This is a cultural shift. What is going on here that's similar to what you guys are doing architecturally, why are you guys here, are you evangelizing, are you recruiting, are you proposing anything? What's the story? >> Yeah, it's really all of those things. We've been doing CloudNative for a long time, and the key thing with AWS, we always listen to our customers, and go wherever they take us. That's a big piece of the way we've always managed to keep on top of everything. And in this case, the whole container industry, there's a whole whole market there, there's a lot of different pieces, we've been working on that for a long time, and we found more and more people interested in CNCF and Kubernetes, and really started to engage. Part of my role is to host the open source team that does outbound engagement with all the different open source communities. So I've hired a few people, I hired Arun Gupta, who's very active in CNCF earlier this year, and internally we were looking at, we need to join CNCF at some point. We got to do that eventually and venture in, let's go make it happen. So last summer we just did all the internal paperwork, and running around talking to people and got everyone on the same page. And then in August we announced, hey, we're joining. So we got that done. I'm on the board of CNCF, Arun's my alternate for the board and technical, running around, and really deeply involved in as much of the technology and everything. And then that was largely so that we could kind of get our contributions from engineering on a clear footing. We were starting to contribute to Kupernetes, like as an outsider to the whole thing. So that's why we're, what's going on here? So getting that in place was like the basis for getting the contributions in place, we start hiring, we get the teams in place, and then getting our ducks in a row, if you like. And then last week at Reinvent, we announced EKS, the EC2 Kubernete's Service. And this week, we all had to be here. Like last week after Reinvent, everyone at AWS wants to go and sleep for a week. But no, we're going to go to Austin, we're going to do this. So we have about 20 people here, we came in, I did a little keynote yesterday. I could talk through the different topics, there, but fundamentally we wanted to be here where we've got the engineering teams here, we've got the engineering managers, they're in full-on hiring mode, because we've got the basic teams in place, but there's a lot more we want to do, and we're just going out and engaging, really getting to know the customers in detail. So that's really what drives it. Customer interactions, little bit of hiring, and just being present in this community. >> Adrian, you're very well known in the open source community, everything that you've done. Netflix, when you were on the VC side, you evangelized a bunch of it, if I can use the term. Amazon, many of us from the outside looked and, trying to understand. Obviously Amazon used lots of open source, Amazon's participated in a number of open source. MXNet got a lot of attention, joining the CNCF is something, I know this community, it's been very positively received, everybody's been waiting for it. What can you tell us about how Amazon, how do they think about open source? Is that something that fits into the strategy, or is it a tactic? Obviously, you're building out your teams, that sends certain signals to market, but can you help clarify for those of us that are watching what Amazon thinks about when it comes to this space? >> I think we've been, so, we didn't really have a team focused on outbound communication of what we were doing in open source until I started building this team a year ago. I think that was the missing link. We were actually doing a lot more than most people realized. I'd summarize it as saying, we were doing more than most people expected, but less than we probably could have been given the scale of what we are, the scale that AWS is at. So part of what we're doing is unlocking some internal demand where engineering teams were going. We'd like to open source something, we don't know how to engage with the communities. We're trying to build trust with these communities, and I've hired a team, I've got several people now, who are mostly from the open source community, we were also was kind of interviewing people like crazy. That was our sourcing for this team. So we get these people in and then we kind of say, all right, we have somebody that understands how to build these communities, how to respond, how to engage with the open source community. It's a little different to a standard customer, enterprise, start up, those are different entities that you'd want to relate to. But from a customer point of view, being customer-obsessed as AWS is, how do we get AWS to listen to an open source community and work with them, and meet all their concerns. So we've been, I think, doing a better job of that now we've pretty much got the team in place. >> That's your point, is customer focus is the ethos there. The communities are your customers in this case. So you're formalizing, you're formalizing that for Amazon, which has been so busy building out, and contributing here and there, so it sounds like there was a lot of activity going on within AWS, it was just kind of like contributing, but so much work on building out cloud ... >> Well there's a lot going on, but if no one was out there telling the story, you didn't know about it. Actually one of the best analogies we have for the EKS is actually our EMR, our Hadoop service, which launched 2010 or something, 2009, we've had it forever. But from the first few years when we did EMR, it was actually in a fork. We kept just sort of building our own version of it to do things, but about three or four years ago, we started upstreaming everything, and it's a completely clean, upstreamed version of all the Hadoop and all the related projects. But you make one API call, a cluster appears. Hey, give me a Hadoop cluster. Voom, and I want Spark and I want all these other things on it. And we're basically taking Kubernetes, it's very similar, we're going to reduce that to a single API call, a cluster appears, and it's a fully upstreamed experience. So that's, in terms of an engineering relationship to open source, we've already got a pretty good success story that nobody really knew about. And we're following a very similar path. >> Adrian, can you help us kind of unpack the Amazon Kubernetes stack a little bit? One of the announcements had a lot of attention, definitely got our attention, Fargate, kind of sits underneath what Kubernetes is doing, my understanding. Where are you sitting with the service measures, kind of bring us through the Amazon stack. What does Amazon do on its own versus the open source, and how those all fit together. >> Yeah, so everyone knows Amazon is a place where you can get virtual machines. It's easy to get me a virtual machine from ten years ago, everyone gets that, right? And then about three years ago, I think it was three years ago, we announced Lambda - was that two or three years ago? I lose track of how many reinvents ago it was. But with Lambda it's like, well, just give me a function. But as a first class entity, there's a, give me a function, here's the code I want you to run. We've now added two new ways that you can deploy to, two things you can deploy to. One of them's bare metal, which is already announced, one of the many, many, many announcements last week that might have slipped by without you noticing, but Bare Metal is a service. People go, 'those machines are really big'. Yes, of course they're really big! You get the whole machine and you can be able to bring your own virtualization or run whatever you want. But you could launch, you could run Kubernetes on that if you wanted, but we don't really care what you run it on. So we had Bare Metal, and then we have container. So Fargate is container as a first class entity that you deploy to. So here's my container registry, point you at it, and run one of these for me. And you don't have to think about deploying the underlying machines it's running on, you don't have to think about what version of Lennox it is, you have to build an AMI, all of the agents and fussing around, and you can get it in much smaller chunks. So you can say you get a CPU and half a gig of ram, and have that as just a small container. So it becomes much more granular, and you can get a broader range of mixes. A lot of our instances are sort of powers of two of a ratio of CPU to memory, and with Fargate you can ask for a much broader ratio. So you can have more CPU, less memory, and go back the other way, as well. 'Cause we can mix it up more easily at the container level. So it gives you a lot more flexibility, and if you buy into this, basically you'll get to do a lot of cost reduction for the sort of smaller scale things that you're running. Maybe test environments, you could shrink them down to just the containers and not have a lot of wasted space where you're trying to, you have too many instances running that you want to put it in. So it's partly the finer grain giving you more ability to say -- >> John: Or consumption choice. >> Yeah, and the other thing that we did recently was move to per-second billing, after the first minute, it's per-second. So the granularity of Cloud is now getting to be extremely fine-grained, and Lambda is per hundred millisecond, so it's just a little bit -- >> $4.03 for your bill, I mean this is the key thing. You guys have simplified the consumption experience. Bare Metal, VM's, containers, and functions. I mean pick one. >> Or pick all of them, it's fine. And when you look at the way Fargate's deployed in ECS it's a mixture. It's not all one or all the other, you deploy a number of instances with your containers on them, plus Fargate to deploy some additional containers that maybe didn't fit those instances. Maybe you've got a fleet of GPU enhanced machines, but you want to run a bit of Logic around it, some other containers in the same execution environment, but these don't need to be on the GPU. That kind of thing, you can mix it up. The other part of the question was, so how does this play into Kubernetes, and the discussions are just that we had to release the thing first, and then we can start talking, okay, how does this fit. Parts of the model fit into Kubernetes, parts don't. So we have to expose some more functionality in Fargate for this to make sense, 'cause we've got a really minimal initial release right now, we're going to expose it and add some more features. And then we possibly have to look at ways that we mutate Kubernetes a little bit for it to fit. So the initial EKS release won't include Fargate, because we're just trying to get it out based on what everyone knows today, we'd rather get that out earlier. But we'll be doing development work in the meantime, so a subsequent release we'll have done the integration work, which will all happen in public, in discussion with the community, and we'll have a debate about, okay, this is the features Fargate needs to properly integrate into Kubernetes, and there are other similar services from other top providers that want to integrate to the same API. So it's all going to be done as a public development, how we architect this. >> I saw a tweet here, I want to hear your comments on, it's from your keynote, someone retweeted, "managing over 100,000 clusters on ACS, hashtag Fargate," integrated into ECS, your hashtag, open, ADM's open. What is that hundred thousand number. Is that the total number, is that an example? On elastic container service, what does that mean? >> So ECS is a very large scale, multi-tenant container operation service that we've had for several years. It's in production, if you compare it to Kubernetes it's running much larger clusters, and it's been running at production-grade for longer. So it's a little bit more robust and secure and all those kinds of things. So I think it's missing some Kubernetes features, and there's a few places where we want to bring in capabilities from Kubernetes and make ECS a better experience for people. Think of Kubernetes as some what optimized for the developer experience, and ECS for more the operations experience, and we're trying to bring all this together. It is operating over a hundred thousand clusters of containers, over a hundred thousand clusters. And I think the other number was hundreds of millions of new containers are launched every week, or something like that. I think it was hundreds of millions a week. So, it's a very large scale system that is already deployed, and we're running some extremely large customers on, like Expedia and Macbook. Macbook ... Mac Box. Some of these people are running tens of thousands of containers in production as a single, we have single clusters in the tens of thousands range. So it's a different beast, right? And it meets a certain need, and we're going to evolve it forwards, and Kubernetes is serving a very different purpose. If you look at our data science space, if you want exactly the same Hadoop thing, you can get that on prem, you can run EMR. But we have Athena and Red Shift and all these other ways that are more native to the way we think, where we can go iterate and build something very specific to AWS, so you blend these two together and it depends on what you're trying to achieve. >> Well Adrian, congratulations on a great opportunity, I think the world is excited to have you in your role, if you could clarify and just put the narrative around, what's actually happening in AWS, what's been happening, and what you guys are going to do forward. I'll give you the last minute to let folks know what your job is, what your objective is, what you're looking for to hire, and your philosophy in the open source for AWS. >> I think there's a couple of other projects, and we've talked, this is really all about containers. The other two key project areas that we've been looking at are deep learning frameworks, since all of the deep learning frameworks are open source. A lot of Kubernetes people are using it to run GPUs and do that kind of stuff. So Apache MXNet is another focus on my team. It went into the incubation phase last January, we're walking it through, helping it on its way. It's something where we're 30, 40% of that project is AWS contribution. So we're not dominating it, but we're one of its main sponsors, and we're working with other companies. There's joint work with, it's lots of open source projects around here. We're working with Microsoft on Gluon, we're working with Facebook and Microsoft on Onyx which is an open URL network exchange. There's a whole lot of things going on here. And I have somebody on my team who hasn't started yet, can't tell you who it is, but they're starting pretty soon, who's going to be focusing on that open source, deep learning AI space. And the final area I think is interesting is IOT, serverless, Edge, that whole space. One announcement recently is free AltOS. So again, we sort of acquired the founder of this thing, this free real-time operating system. Everything you have, you probably personally own hundreds of instances of this without knowing it, it's in everything. Just about every little thing that sits there, that runs itself, every light bulb, probably, in your house that has a processor in it, those are all free AltOS. So it's incredibly pervasive, and we did an open source announcement last week where we switched its license to be a pure MIT license, to be more friendly for the community, and announced an Amazon version of it with better Amazon integration, but also some upgrades to the open source version. So, again, we're pushing an open source platform, strategy, in the embedded and IOT space as well. >> And enabling people to build great software, take the software engineering hassles out for the application developers, while giving the software engineers more engineering opportunities to create some good stuff. Thanks for coming on The Cube and congratulations on your continued success, and looking forward to following up on the Amazon Web Services open source collaboration, contribution, and of course, innovation. The Cube doing it's part here with its open source content, three days of coverage of CloudNativeCon and KubeCon. It's our second day, I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, we'll be back with more live coverage in Austin, Texas, after this short break. >> Offscreen: Thank you.

For a global digital audience than they could in person. Whether you're watching from home, in Europe, in Asia, it doesn't matter where you are. You can access and watch live and access on demand content 24 by seven. We come to you wherever you are. We bring to you real, live conversations that are aimed at educating you so you understand how you can make a difference at your company. >> Narrator: Live from Nice, France, it's theCUBE covering .Next Conference 2017 Europe brought to by Nutanix. Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and we're here at the Nutanix .Next Conference in lovely Nice, France. We're inside the Acropolis Conference Center and happy to have me wrap up the show coverage is Adrian Bridgwater who is a freelance contributor with publications such as Forbes and Computer Weekly. Adrian, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks, Stu. Thanks for having me on the show. All right, so Nutanix keeps calm inside the cloud tornado. I mean, a little bit cheeky, but Nutanix calm, of course, is their product, there, but a lot going on, a lot of churn in the industry, which is the headline that you put on on Forbes from the show here. >> Adrian: Yes, thanks for reading. How's the show been for you? It's been good. I mean, the company's gone from strength to strength. We all know that. It's been a really sort of slick operation. We come to a lot of these events, and you expect, you know, some tangible news and some opportunity to actually meet with the C-suites guys, and we've had that. It's no complaints overall. It's been a good event. Yeah, absolutely, definitely approachable. The Nutanix team does well with the press and the analysts to kind of pull us in, let us understand, 'cause, a lot of this area, I tell you, like hyper converged infrastructure was not something that was readily accessible that most people knew, so they know they have to do some work and even kind of enterprise cloud that they push out there. A lot of it, their messaging's a little ahead of where most of the market is. What's your experience been with them? Well, I think, I was also kind of trying to say beforehand, Dheeraj and team have taken a really, very hands-on approach with the press. He came with, you know, two or three of them came over to London a good four or five years ago. Would it be five years ago? Four years ago and kind of went around the table saying, "Does anybody know? Who knows Nutanix," and there was about 10 press who did come out for that lunch, and there were a lot of kind of like fumbling, shuffled looks, and you really didn't get a clear idea. I think people know Nutanix now. They have an idea of hyper convergence. People are almost trying to understand what an abstraction layer is and what the company's taking to market. Yeah, I think he's kind of democratizing the team or democratizing their actual technology proposition. I think people are really starting to understand where they sit in the cloud market. Yeah, and I'm curious, and you've talked to customers when you look at your readership there. It feels like, by the time now people understand Nutanix, and they might've gotten their arms around hyper converged, they're off to the next thing, and they're talking about multi-cloud, and they talked about edge computing some today and some of the future technologies. Do they get ahead of themselves in the marketing too much, or are they doing a good job of giving a full vision thought leadership? I think, always, their difficulty within internally in Nutanix is that they really understand the cloud model, and, whether they've got ahead of themselves, I'm not sure. The customers are only really getting to the verge of going cloud native with a lot of their applications, and that's one of the things I've been looking at a lot recently, and it's kind of like, if that's the point that companies are at on the hype cycle, then it's kind of, well, what do they need to do to get that happening in their organizations, and it's probably now at the point where they're starting to ask, "Well, at what point would we use Nutanix "in a total implementation". I don't think they're ahead of themselves. I think they're obviously of the time and of the place, 'cause we're all focusing on them, and people are starting to understand what cloud computing means. Yeah, absolutely, and something we've seen at Wikibon from a research standpoint is there's still a large legacy base out there, and how much of that is going to convert into what we've been trying to call for years private cloud? We put out some definitions about two years ago that said true private cloud, because just virtualizing isn't enough. A little bit of orchestration isn't enough, but there is, in that multi-cloud world, Nutanix is going to say, "We're not just for the data center "in that piece". "We're going to play and reach out "to some of the public cloud. "We're going to live in this world," so yeah. I think there's almost a confusion between what is private cloud and what is public cloud, because we're almost getting vendors selling public cloud as private cloud, which I really don't think anyone's got their head around what this is trying to be. What we say is the public cloud really should be the benchmark that you go against. I want the operational experience of the public cloud. That being said, nobody's keeping up with Amazon, three features a day. They're massive scale. You got Microsoft and Google. I'm not discounting them. Even Alibaba's there. Some others like Oracle and IBM have public cloud services, but you're never going to have the amount of services and access to that in the private cloud, but that's not necessarily what I need, but I need to be able to respond to the business. Agility is the thing that they have. I need to be able to, what Nutanix delivered really well is, I can start small, and I can expand in incremental pieces as opposed to kind of the monolithic infrastructure that we used to spend 18 months building. That's kind of where we sit. Don't you think it's the service's elements that are falling into the toolkits that we're seeing the Nutanix develop. Mostly, announcements at the show have been related to incremental service elements. It's kind of, well, you know, what do I? I've got my cloud computing infrastructure. I'm starting to build cloud native applications within the business. What's my devops offering like, what's my infrastructure management tool, the Prism user management interface, all of the sort of elements in that. Everything's starting to just get more finessed and more sophisticated. Spot on, Adrian, absolutely is. Com is really going to be that platform that's going to allow them to deliver those services to where the customers need it, and even the naming of this, it's like, "Oh, they're object service. "Oh, look at it. It's OSS. "Oh, the compute thing: it's AC2". Sounds very AWS-like in how they name things as opposed to, you think, AHV reminded me a little bit more of following the Vmware type of model, so absolutely. Amazon, a bar that many companies and industries are following; if Nutanix wants to become an iconic software company, I'd love your commentary on that. Looking after Amazon and what they're doing is not a bad model to follow. No, no. I think it's interesting to look at where they've come from in terms of what they used to describe themselves as, which was the hyper convergence company, and they're not that now. They're the enterprise cloud company, and I think we all, I think it was the Vienna conference, so it was the European leg, which this is, this time last year that they changed the tagline. You walk into the convention center, and suddenly why aren't you the hyper convergence company now? It was kind of the proposition that they were going to be a broader platform play, which is the whole one OS, one click, one cloud. That's how they're taking a bigger proposition to market now, don't you think? Yeah, absolutely, and the term I heard that I kind of latched onto was that iconic software company, and all indications are they'll be 100% of software company relatively soon. That means that it's not, "Oh, well, I'll buy "the super micro appliance from Nutanix". Well, how will that change to go to market. Sudheesh, on the interview, said, "We're re-changing "how we think our, you know, our sales structure "and everything like that," because they've got their OEMs, of course, offer that full fully-integrated solutions. They're still going to do all the testing, and make sure that everything goes out, but it will change a little bit the revenue. I actually had the chief revenue officer on, and he talked about. He's like, "Hey, you know, "software's got pretty good margins, right". It's like, yeah, well, okay, margins will go up as a percentage standpoint, but, overall revenue, as a public company, we'll see how they thread that needle. I think they've got a nice window here, 'cause they just restated all of their software revenue that they had had from their OEMs. They used to take it kind of over, I believe, a three year chunk, and now they're putting it there. They've got this opportunity, hitting right around a billion dollars. Change themselves and truly be a software company' and considered a software company and measured as a software company by Wall Street. Is that something that you think, outside of the Wall Street people and the impacts on the channel and sales, or-- I think it was surprising to have to hear the guys try and justify themselves as a software company. I mean, 'cause I think that's what we perceived them to be anyway, and, of course, every business, every company's a software company, even a bakery. Literally every industry vertical, every company, every firm, every customer is having to redefine itself as a software company. Even for Dheeraj to say that a cloud is digital, I think we assume so much of that, and I don't know why. They're kind of going back to basics with some of this stuff, but that's fine. I think there's a lot of clarification needs to be done to explain what these technologies are supposed to mean to customers. Adrian, meetings, you've talked to executives, probably got some sessions, maybe talked to some customers: key takeaways that you had from the show, any new things you learned that you didn't know coming in? Really, my key takeaway is, as the toolkit has expanded, and the question I think I posed to Sudheesh was, "What are you going to add next," and there was no sort of defined component. It seems to be quite a complete go to market proposition. I think that their total house, their shop, is looking fairly complete. It's validated, I think. That's their market proposition. It's not a term they use, but I think that they've got the credibility and the validation for what they're trying to go to market with. Yeah, it seems Nutanix known a little bit more in Europe now. How they doing overall, in your opinion? In terms of their recognition amongst the customer base? I think they're on the up and up, aren't they? They're getting the recognition amongst the press. Certainly, the customers here seem very happy. They got the blue-chip clients that they want to use as use cases. Yeah, across Europe, it's good that they're moving locations for this conference. We were in Vienna. We're now in France. I'm not sure where next year is. They're making the spread and their footprint substantial, it seems. Yeah, any favorite spot for a sub-5,000 person event? For next year? >> Stu: Yeah. Italy, I think. Yeah. >> Stu: Something like Milano? Yeah, somewhere warmer, South, I think. All right, well, yeah. I've heard they're actually not announcing the location this week, that they have narrowed it down. They're definitely committed to doing the European show but definitely look forward to seeing where they go from here. Adrian, want to give you last words, any final things. What are you working on outside of Nutanix, things that your audience and readership are mostly interested in? I think what I'm generally working on is day-to-day reporting on, my beat as a journalist has always been, well, three words really: software application development, but, a lot of the time, I'm writing for people that aren't actually developers. It's kind of just explaining what the mechanics of software operations what they are, what these things do, because, 10 years ago, people didn't know what an app was, but the iPad arrived, and we've started to understand so much more of what goes on inside the machines we're using. I'm just trying to explain what the developers are using and how that's actually impacting the way the software that the consumers use every day. That's what I do. All right, well, Adrian Bridgwater, appreciate you taking some of your words and bringing 'em out to the video for our audience here and appreciate you helping me wrap up two days of coverage, wall to wall. Heck, they're tearing this place down, and we were still going strong here. Thank you so much. I'm Stu Miniman for the whole team here at SiliconANGLE and beyond. Appreciate you joining us. Be sure to check out all of our coverage, siliconangle.com for the written word, thecube.net for the videos, wikibon.com for the research. Wrapping up, final words, Stu Miniman. Thank you so much for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music) >> Offscreen Male: The acquisition of Nutanix has been.

(energetic music) >> Voiceover: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, Covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017. Brought to you by Oracle. (upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back and we are here live in Las Vegas at Mandalay Bay Convention Center for Oracle's Modern C-EX, Modern Customer Experience Event. Part of Oracle Marketing Cloud, I am John Furrier with SiliconANGLE. My co-host Peter Burris, head of research at Wikibon.com. Our next guest is Adrian Chang, director of customer programs at Oracle Marketing Cloud, also emcee of the Markie and big part of that program. Congratulations on the success of the Markie's awards, which were given out last night. I read your blog post on the site this morning. >> Thank you >> Great to see you again and welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me, always great to be here and I love Modern Customer Experience and that marketing is a part of it. >> It's really been a great transformation this year. The simplification of just now narrowing it down to one simple value president, Modern Customer Experience, which encapsulates a lot of stuff. Quickly review what that is and then let's talk about the Markies. >> Absolutely, so I start with the Markies and so we have a history of celebrating excellence in data-driven modern marketing. So, this program has grown tremendously over the past 11 years. When I look at the submissions, they're customers that are focusing on acquisition and loyalty retention. And they read these stories all the time and spend weeks preparing the submissions. So this event is all about how can we share our intent to have our customers have a good experience as part of Oracle and then how can we help them delight their customers in delivering experiences and create value at every touch point. >> One of the thing I really like about the change in the name from Modern Marketing Experience to Modern Customer Experience is you move from the process, the function, to the outcome and the result. So how are the Markies reflecting that this year? >> Absolutely. So if you think about where we started, again it was six categories celebrating excellence in B2B marketing and reaching folks behind a single device, their laptop computer. So cut to 2017, the customers' preferences, their activities are fluid. So great marketing requires you to use a series of channels to reach them everywhere. And so, marketers have to balance brand with action, and then also deliver on intent. So the Markies have had to evolve to think about the habits. So the account-based marketing team of the year was a new award that we gave out that really represented the intent. Are people actually doing this, we have tons of great stories. So we have to balance out a bit of the usage of the product and the technology and embracing the new strategies and what's current within the marketplace. >> So the future of marketing as it goes into data, that's been the theme here. All of our interviews, day one. And certainly the key notes, even Mark was giving a great specific example. Now data is at the heart of it. Adaptive intelligence is the theme. You can see the dots are connecting the convergence of where the Markies are showing traction are some pretty interesting use cases. Any notables you'd like to share that kind of highlight that data piece? >> Absolutely. So our winner for best email campaign was from Jetstar and they're an airline in Austraila. What's great is they have been able to find ways to-- so when you get an email about travel, sometimes you book at one particular point and your preferences and relationship with that airline may change. Your travel destinations may change. So the fact that they can optimize the information at the time of send, sending the weather, curing you to maybe upsell and look at other opportunities to have a pleasant experience, that's amazing. So Laura Ipsen spent some time talking about how we at Oracle are looking to evolve preferences, so going from one to many, to one to one, and the hallmark which is one to you. And I think the Jetstar campaign, they use Oracle responses as a perfect example of that. The first award that we gave out was to Covance for account-based team of the year and by doing, setting up an account-based marketing strategy, putting it in place, getting all the stakeholders in sales in place, getting the discipline on the content. They were able to increase their engagement with key accounts by a significant margin. And they were delighted to be among those that are partners to celebrate that achievement. >> Adrian, I want you to talk about, for the folks that are watching who aren't here, the buzz in the hallways, because the hallways is always a good conversation, certainly the lunch table as well. I'll include that technically at the hallway, but people sitting down. >> Absolutely. >> AI has been front and center, but it's not being painted over, white-washed, "Oh! AI! It's hot so let's jump on the bandwagon." There's some real tech involved. What has been the reaction from customers in used cases that you hear in the hallways? >> Customers are excited about it. I think for a lot of our customers had the opportunity to hear Mark Heard talk about it. Where he embraced and said, "If you think about AI at the core, it's computing done real fast to help people make really rich decisions about what to do next." And so, I think our customers are still grappling with all the technology and how to get value out of their core platforms, how do they deliver on their initial objective and then we have a subset of our most mature, most excited, who are starting to put those data plots together, and start getting more predictive and allow the machine to do the work for you. But in order for you to have, to even think about it, you've got to have great, you've got to fill the cup with great data. And I think people are still getting there so that the machine isn't biased and you don't make the wrong decision about how to treat your customers. >> So just notable trending tweets I wanted to share with you, and again, get your reactions, because this is speaking to the customer in used case. One was from a part from our digitizing panel, Mark wrote "According to digitize, if you're not looking to use chatbots and AI, you're going to be out of business hashtag MME17", a little bit of that, legacy there. And then hashtag Modern CX. And the other one is, "Netflix is a great example of a company creating content combined with powerful AI targeting programs." Little bit of sample of some of the things we're seeing. Chatbots. It's a new interface. It's a new way to use data. Netflix content, which modern marketers need content in this platform. Picking a Netflix approach. So, kind of begs a question. Chatbots? Netflix? Kind of modern. Email? Old? So how do you get a marketer to get you to use the reliability of hardened critical infrastructure, like email, not going away anytime soon but, it's going to be one dimension of Netflix. Content marketing. Binge watching. All this content out there. Netflix and chatbots interface. Your thoughts? >> So my thought is I am, so I was in the room when I watched the chatbot piece and I loved the fact of the, we could live in a world where we could have a fluid customer experience anywhere. You can ask a question. I also support our communities where you ask a question and know you're automatically going to get an answer to the algorithm. So that delivers on that one to you scenario. So I'm super excited about it. When I look at the Netflix example, even to get the information on what the recommendation engine should be, you still need a lot of data. And you still need to know what are the habits of your customers who even land on that decision tree. So I love the fact that folks are thinking Netflix and thinking content, but that chatbot thing, oh my goodness. When people start doing that I can't wait to see those customers that win those Markies. >> Peter: But they have to do it right. >> They have to do it right. >> One of the dangers that marketing always faces is the idea that it's all about collecting information, having the customer give something to me and not giving something valuable in return. >> Adrian: Absolutely >> And the challenge that I see with chatbots is, and I think you agree John, is are chatbots going to be used to further automate information collection at the expense of really presenting value. The new marketing, the Modern Customer Experience, has to be focused on are we delivering value with the customer at every single interaction, not is the customer doing more for us inside of marketing. What do you think about that? >> So I agree. Cause if we do not know that we are creating value and that we're not, that we're adding friction into the problem, you pour that into your algorithm, there's going to bias. And so then, you can't make a decision about how to feed information into the machine and not have the right information that says we don't have the right region, we don't understand the behavior across all products. You can't have bias in the model at all. It has to be complete for you to then look at your customer base holistically. >> Yeah, we don't want to better automate bad marketing practices. >> Adrian: Absolutely. >> We want to use these technologies to continuously drive to use a famous person's parlance a more perfect union between this marketer and the buyer. >> Adrian: Absolutely. >> John: Well you got a great article up on Martechseries, "This year has gone above and beyond, fully leverage and most innovative marketing technology to create customer centric campaigns that deliver outstanding results that Laurie has spent, Senior Vice President Chairman." Okay that's obviously marketing packaging for the quote, from PR, but what she's getting at is customer centric. Again this is the theme, multitude of technologies now in the platform. Very interesting. Are customers responding well to this platform and are they seeing the need to stand up thing quickly in these campaigns? >> Adrian: Absolutely. They are finding that there's more pressure to get interim value. They are absolutely buying into the platform message and we have quite a few customers who also were recognized for the use of multiple products and multiple partner related applications. And so we're actually seeing a nice trend in both. To do great marketing, part of the messaging, or part of Laura's talk track from today was people are freaked out about the data but if you find a way to harness it, you'll create experiences where you'll stop chasing the customers. They'll start chasing you cause you'll find the right way to have the conversation with them. >> And word of mouth gets around too. I'm going to ask you to pick your favorite child of the awards. Was there one that jumps out, without alienating all the winners. Is there one that you like? >> This is a really, really hard question for me. As you know I read all the submissions, I play a heavy role in writing the speech. So it's really hard. >> John: Here we go, the preamble, not picking one. Here we go! I don't like to pick my favorite child. No parent likes to do that. >> I don't like to pick my favorite child. This is a really, really hard thing. >> Okay, audience favorite? >> How are they different this year from last year? How about that? Or is there something general that shows, that kind of reinforces some of this customer experience or are you seeing a progress in how the Markies are evolving? >> Yeah, that's a great question. So I'm happy to answer that one. And so for the first time since 2012, we brought back the dinner. And so having the Markies and our customer celebration, it shows our intent as Oracle Marketing Cloud, for our customers as well. That we love and want them to have a great week and want to celebrate their accomplishments and get other people to the winning circle. So being at a table and feeling that energy, getting that opportunity to sit with an executive or sit with a member of a team is a really, really great lift to then come to an event with over 4,000 people and feel warm and feel included. So I think that was an important part, that was a huge feel. I mentioned that we added a account-based team of the year award. Again, you couldn't be in B2B marketing and hide from account-based marketing. It's everywhere. We also delivered an overall customer experience award, so we had two customer-related awards and we created one category. I personally the videos, so our best video submission categories won where the viewers got to pick. And I would say the reaction of Juniper taking home two trophies last night, if I had to pick one, because that one had bit of a go to it. >> Peter: Juniper? >> Juniper Networks. >> Really? >> John: Two awards. >> They won two awards last night. I loved their reaction as well as the reaction of our folks from Brazil. You know, really, really great stories from their use of data. We also had Chris Diaz, our leader of the year, who not only led really strong customer experience transformations across marketing, sales, and service. >> This is the CMO of Time Warner? >> Uh no, that's Kristin. >> Kristi? >> Uh yeah, that's Kristin at Time Warner. I'm talking about Chris Diaz who is also driving sustainability efforts in Africa. It's really transformational. Huge, huge advocate of Oracle. As is the team at Kenya Airways. There's some really feel good moments. There are really exciting moments, you can feel it. People were hugging each other. People were laughing. People brought their own noise cannons and sparklers. >> Who doesn't love an awards show? When you're giving out great trophies? >> You know, we always get the comparison to the Oscars, and so this year it felt like the Golden Globes. >> So you handed out the wrong award. >> So you had a couple of times when the winner, when the wrong winner was >> We actually did not have that but we actually did joke about it. We embraced it. So Kayla Sullivan helped us with the awards distribution. And that was fun. The trophy itself is actually made by the same designer who makes the Emmy. And I believe I said that last year. But the feel was more like the Golden Globes. There was refreshments and opportunity to have there. >> John: It was well done. It looked great on photos. Big crowd. You had the jibs and all the cameras. Great camera angles. >> We had a drone do the delivery so we played with some new drone deliveries >> John: That's the next one up on Amazon delivering your packages by drone, you know, dropping in. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. So we had one delivered via tweet and then we had one that was delivered via drone and so we covered all their risk management pieces in advance. And I'm just super happy that InVision, who partnered with us in hosting and producing the event, were able to get some of these things cleared. So our intent was let's be futuristic, let's be digital, let's be now. And they managed to incorporate that into the show for us. >> Well, Adrian. Congratulations on all the great work with the Markies and continued success. What's next next year? What do you guys look, I know, processing, you got to have a little fun now. Relax a little bit. But as you look forward to next year's Markies, you're watching, you've got your submission. It's kind of like the college admissions. You want to know who the judge is. Here he is. What are you looking for for next year? Have you though about it, any ideas? Random thoughts? >> Yeah, it's a great question. It takes us about seven months to actually plan. To sit down and actually plan our calendar from submission peer, the content. And so, we tend to create the categories that are aspirational. So we likely will figure out what's the best way to incorporate the trend. Get them out early to drive customers to get really excited about what's next. We're talking about AI now. What will we be talking about in six months? I'm looking forward to to hearing more customers share about the value their getting from Marketing Cloud, the new channels that they're using, how they've overcome barriers within their organizations to do new and great things. And really focus on taking these stories and telling them all year. >> And that's speed and empowerment. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Adrian Chang. Here in theCUBE back with Markies update with great commentary. Great to see you. Looking great, love the outfit. Lookin' good, as always. Thank you for taking the time and sharing your perspective. >> Thanks for having me. >> Peter: Took me a while to figure out what that was though The flower. What is that thing? From here it's like >> It's good. Looks good on you. Adrian Chang, here inside theCUBE bringing all the Markie action, all the great coverage. It's theCUBE. We'll have more live coverage after the short break. (energetic music)

okay we're back live day 1 of IBM's information on demand this is silicon angles the cube our flagship program we'd go out the advanced district is stealing from the noise I'm John forums with my co-host de Valle ante as usual we are here to break down and extract the signal from the noise and share that with you and we'd love to have analysts ha we had Judith Horowitz on she's trending on the Twitter board and one other person who's also trending is merv adrian with Gardner Keeble um very authoritative in space welcome to have you great to have you back on the cube again seems like we just did this last week last week in big data NYC our event that was going on around strata conference on hadoop world kind of geeky hadoop meets business mainstream here at IBM what's your take on sleeve sat through the sessions we were following your tweets and just what's what's your what's your report card day one for IBM as always overwhelmingly large 13,000 i think is the number here it has to be seen to be believed if you've never been to one of these events and and you have some idea of the scale of these these venues in Vegas but you come out of an event room you come out of a ballroom you and you can't move in the hallway for three or four minutes subway is it is extraordinary the number of people who are here so those of us who've done it a few times have learned a few of the back ways through the garage up over the roof here way down the sounding lobes yeah but it's it's an amazing crowd it's an extraordinarily mixed crowd to your point John there's a lot of suits here a lot more suits in there were at strata a lot of people who are very interested in the business side and even in a session that I just SAT through that was talking about competitive displacements by IBM two of the people on the panel basically said look I didn't really want to hear too much about the technology it was as much about my relationship with the vendors I was working with as it was about the technology and that's always been one of IBM strengths is that they have a lifetime view of customer value and a they cultivate their relationship very carefully over the years so they do very well within their base their bigger challenge and what we're seeing here is how do they reach outside of that how do they reach the folks that are not already blue stack loyalists and get them to come over because they talk about how they're reaching out beyond that base but it's come correct and the ninety percent of the business if not more is with the blue stack is that a fair assertion I think the numbers are that something like eighty percent of IBM's revenue comes from twenty percent of IBM's customers yeah so right there even within their own base you're seeing a very strong concentration clearly they have a strong base in companies that have the highest of mainstream requirements for security and reliability the big banks and so on and that remains true but they're they're big focus in several of the speeches here was ease and simplicity and that's a story that has to be told with pictures and they didn't do that effectively today they did not do that effectively today if you want to tell me about how simple your GUI is and how easy it is to use your product for discovery then don't use five thousand words to do it put five pictures on the stage and show me family right they didn't do it ServiceNow tableau splunk listen there's it there's a great tool here called discover which IBM has that is a marvelous way for an entry point into the unstructured and new data that people are trying to work with that gives you a way to go play with it find something useful then persist something that will be of value which is the next the inevitable next step of most people's early Big Data experiments and right now that's an area where the Big Data community in general all those folks we saw at strata last week this is where things begin to break down for them right it's great for those first few experiments then you're going to make some architectural choices where am I going to persist the stuff that I'm going to use next week and the week after that and IBM has a great portfolio of pieces that can be put together to tell that story that's what they need to be doing and today I heard about the portfolio I didn't hear about that story I didn't I didn't hear a narrative and and the narrative is there to be told so I think they'll get better at me I think I think one thing that seems awkward but I mean seems really relevant but awkward the way there there we get this tomorrow maybe is the social business is a great story I mean that that kind of Tamia is the the face of the analytics which is geeky you know value chain process improvement but the social business kind of hits the rubber meets the road it's the user shaking their smartphone and getting analytics women you know some chat application or you know the real change is on the society did they tease that out today are they saving that no I think they get it very very effectively in multiple places in financial services in health care in smart metered solutions for the industrial Internet the same things we're hearing elsewhere what they're doing very effectively is pulling out the stories where people have had that kind of an impact again the challenge is to show people you can do this too so that was one of the best things said from the from the podium by our host today the guy from the National Geographic his name escapes me jhon Jason fake yes shake Jake poorly horwich he was wonderful he did a great opening and he put up some wonderful visualizations and he said you know this is about big dad look at how they've combined this data with geography you know wouldn't it be great if you can do it too you can do it too I was it was good perfectly staged he just conveyed it very very lawful school PowerPoint users are you know still clutched to text and seven bullets in the title and you know 14 fonts just make him 24 point please yeah no more than five so Ashley it's a tough story to tell I mean to me my takeaway I want to get your opinion on this from both you guys this is a complex story to tell talking about big data analytics gonna do from everything else under the covers blu acceleration you got cloud and mobile which are under the hood a lot of technology issues their nuances data governance information government and the social business as a paradigm mind-blowing paradigm shift to try to tell that together as hard the same time they get customers deploying this stuff and giving successes on top of it so that's of a business outcomes that consultative journey and the implementation at productions scale I need all those things Janet the one makes for a hard story well at evens it depends on how you tell it if you tell it as a story and if you abstract away from the complexities of of an extraordinarily large product portfolio then there's a message to be told there then there's another message to be told when you do get into the details of the product portfolio iBM has to do both and sometimes they seemed caught between skills and crackers you know right by half pregnant you know stuck in the middle what everyone say yeah you feel that that day one kind of stuck in the middle or I think they hit elements of both ends of the spectrum but spend a lot of time kind of in between them not quite doing enough on either end that said I think it all depends on what you bring to the conversation I I wandered in really not intentionally to one of the enterprise content management sessions that's not really my sweet spot but it was a great discussion and it was a discussion that as they discussed unstructured data sounded very much like what us db8 style geeks are talking about over on the on the Hadoop side of the house with a different set of business issues but being realized and driving value at least if not more effectively and especially with the connection to the social side of things so they've got the story we were talking about the 8020 before yeah 90 10 or whatever it is Desai him actually have to move beyond that base to succeed I mean most businesses if less their startups get most of their business from their existing customers sure it's a great question what's your definition of success and I talked to the guys in the various Wall Street firms all the time and they're always worried about the change in the slope of the curve it's the area under the curve that matters right there's a lot of money down there underneath that line there's a lot of customer value there's a lot of recurring revenue and IBM's doing just fine there do they need to have a much larger user base of lots and lots of new users today well I don't think so but it wouldn't hurt what and it and it's awfully nice to be able to position yourself as leading people into the future as opposed to being the place where they'll go when they grow up and I think a lot of people today as their systems do mature and require these these more significant enterprise class features will inevitably migrated to my IBM technologies that can answer us but the area under the curve dilemma right you get Amazon it makes last quarter made seven million dollars in a 70 75 million dollar billion-dollar company maybe seven million in profit and the stock goes up by IBM throws off you know more cash free cash flow than an IBM said from the stage today that their bare metal implementation performs twice as well as Amazon's and now I haven't benchmark that but that's a nice assertion to be a munich performance is that why people go to the cloud though right that's probably not where they go there at first of an interesting data point gotta but I put but your performance is a second-order variable meeting if everything's equal first I first I explore I discover I find value once i do and i put this into production then I start thinking about how can I do this more cost-effectively how can I do it with better performance how can I make it more stable secure reliable that's when people come to IBM and there's still well positioned for answering those questions when those questions come up competition out there for these guys obviously we were talking about softlayer as a bolt-on try to figure out cloud damn I on it I'm not what's your take on their moves in the cloud and just cut their relative to their competition not my sweet spot but i think that IBM has the assets and the and the spread and the portfolio to be a formidable competitor there if they choose to go there the interesting challenge for anybody who wants to compete with Amazon is Amazon stated mission right we will be the low-margin supplier can you think of another I tea vendor who says that yeah and advil and by the way and by the way they're innovating yeah and they're disrupting and innovating and we'll go push to commoditize margin to them to the close to zero I think their margins are a lot higher than people may realize too much well their shift in the margins they seem to be able to drop their prices pretty frequently go crisscross doesn't everybody Merv they just don't announce that they don't market the fact right Evan doesn't doesn't everybody's price drop every quarter no no in a word with the cost of a choose a new product and increase my boss to compute and storage drops every quarter saying they don't pass it on to customers shocking isn't it you guys kept him honest on them yeah we tried they tried we do our best but then there's always new features they can add to the product and charge for okay remember we got to wrap up we'd have just got started you all right now you have you on the cube okay hey Lucy tomorrow I'm sure this huge segment we've ever done referred that's okay I know we haven't we had the pressure because the analysts dinner from in he chew it wants to come on and me for your tight defer to the lady anytime she's a rock star and the cube alumni she's been on more times than you but all you're catching up to her yeah I'm with my best you know I'm trending thanks guys Merv Adrian analyst at gardner bender on the block seeing many many cycles excited about what iBM has needs to kind of clean up their their position get more data and products don't get stuck in the middle and just good stuff though IBM got good review from Merv here on the cube we'll be right back after this short break with our next guest the cube

(upbeat music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone at Supercloud 2 event, live here in Palo Alto, theCUBE Studios live stage performance, virtually syndicating it all over the world. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante here as Cube alumni, and special influencer guest, Howie Xu, VP of Machine Learning and Zscaler, also part-time as a CUBE analyst 'cause he is that good. Comes on all the time. You're basically a CUBE analyst as well. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for inviting me. >> John: Technically, you're not really a CUBE analyst, but you're kind of like a CUBE analyst. >> Happy New Year to everyone. >> Dave: Great to see you. >> Great to see you, Dave and John. >> John: We've been talking about ChatGPT online. You wrote a great post about it being more like Amazon, not like Google. >> Howie: More than just Google Search. >> More than Google Search. Oh, it's going to compete with Google Search, which it kind of does a little bit, but more its infrastructure. So a clever point, good segue into this conversation, because this is kind of the beginning of these kinds of next gen things we're going to see. Things where it's like an obvious next gen, it's getting real. Kind of like seeing the browser for the first time, Mosaic browser. Whoa, this internet thing's real. I think this is that moment and Supercloud like enablement is coming. So this has been a big part of the Supercloud kind of theme. >> Yeah, you talk about Supercloud, you talk about, you know, AI, ChatGPT. I really think the ChatGPT is really another Netscape moment, the browser moment. Because if you think about internet technology, right? It was brewing for 20 years before early 90s. Not until you had a, you know, browser, people realize, "Wow, this is how wonderful this technology could do." Right? You know, all the wonderful things. Then you have Yahoo and Amazon. I think we have brewing, you know, the AI technology for, you know, quite some time. Even then, you know, neural networks, deep learning. But not until ChatGPT came along, people realize, "Wow, you know, the user interface, user experience could be that great," right? So I really think, you know, if you look at the last 30 years, there is a browser moment, there is iPhone moment. I think ChatGPT moment is as big as those. >> Dave: What do you see as the intersection of things like ChatGPT and the Supercloud? Of course, the media's going to focus, journalists are going to focus on all the negatives and the privacy. Okay. You know we're going to get by that, right? Always do. Where do you see the Supercloud and sort of the distributed data fitting in with ChatGPT? Does it use that as a data source? What's the link? >> Howie: I think there are number of use cases. One of the use cases, we talked about why we even have Supercloud because of the complexity, because of the, you know, heterogeneous nature of different clouds. In order for me as a developer, in order for me to create applications, I have so many things to worry about, right? It's a complexity. But with ChatGPT, with the AI, I don't have to worry about it, right? Those kind of details will be taken care of by, you know, the underlying layer. So we have been talking about on this show, you know, over the last, what, year or so about the Supercloud, hey, defining that, you know, API layer spanning across, you know, multiple clouds. I think that will be happening. However, for a lot of the things, that will be more hidden, right? A lot of that will be automated by the bots. You know, we were just talking about it right before the show. One of the profound statement I heard from Adrian Cockcroft about 10 years ago was, "Hey Howie, you know, at Netflix, right? You know, IT is just one API call away." That's a profound statement I heard about a decade ago. I think next decade, right? You know, the IT is just one English language away, right? So when it's one English language away, it's no longer as important, API this, API that. You still need API just like hardware, right? You still need all of those things. That's going to be more hidden. The high level thing will be more, you know, English language or the language, right? Any language for that matter. >> Dave: And so through language, you'll tap services that live across the Supercloud, is what you're saying? >> Howie: You just tell what you want, what you desire, right? You know, the bots will help you to figure out where the complexity is, right? You know, like you said, a lot of criticism about, "Hey, ChatGPT doesn't do this, doesn't do that." But if you think about how to break things down, right? For instance, right, you know, ChatGPT doesn't have Microsoft stock price today, obviously, right? However, you can ask ChatGPT to write a program for you, retrieve the Microsoft stock price, (laughs) and then just run it, right? >> Dave: Yeah. >> So the thing to think about- >> John: It's only going to get better. It's only going to get better. >> The thing people kind of unfairly criticize ChatGPT is it doesn't do this. But can you not break down humans' task into smaller things and get complex things to be done by the ChatGPT? I think we are there already, you know- >> John: That to me is the real game changer. That's the assembly of atomic elements at the top of the stack, whether the interface is voice or some programmatic gesture based thing, you know, wave your hand or- >> Howie: One of the analogy I used in my blog was, you know, each person, each professional now is a quarterback. And we suddenly have, you know, a lot more linebacks or you know, any backs to work for you, right? For free even, right? You know, and then that's sort of, you should think about it. You are the quarterback of your day-to-day job, right? Your job is not to do everything manually yourself. >> Dave: You call the play- >> Yes. >> Dave: And they execute. Do your job. >> Yes, exactly. >> Yeah, all the players are there. All the elves are in the North Pole making the toys, Dave, as we say. But this is the thing, I want to get your point. This change is going to require a new kind of infrastructure software relationship, a new kind of operating runtime, a new kind of assembler, a new kind of loader link things. This very operating systems kind of concepts. >> Data intensive, right? How to process the data, how to, you know, process so gigantic data in parallel, right? That's actually a tough job, right? So if you think about ChatGPT, why OpenAI is ahead of the game, right? You know, Google may not want to acknowledge it, right? It's not necessarily they do, you know, not have enough data scientist, but the software engineering pieces, you know, behind it, right? To train the model, to actually do all those things in parallel, to do all those things in a cost effective way. So I think, you know, a lot of those still- >> Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question because we've had this conversation privately, but I want to do it while we're on stage here. Where are all the alpha geeks and developers and creators and entrepreneurs going to gravitate to? You know, in every wave, you see it in crypto, all the alphas went into crypto. Now I think with ChatGPT, you're going to start to see, like, "Wow, it's that moment." A lot of people are going to, you know, scrum and do startups. CTOs will invent stuff. There's a lot of invention, a lot of computer science and customer requirements to figure out. That's new. Where are the alpha entrepreneurs going to go to? What do you think they're going to gravitate to? If you could point to the next layer to enable this super environment, super app environment, Supercloud. 'Cause there's a lot to do to enable what you just said. >> Howie: Right. You know, if you think about using internet as the analogy, right? You know, in the early 90s, internet came along, browser came along. You had two kind of companies, right? One is Amazon, the other one is walmart.com. And then there were company, like maybe GE or whatnot, right? Really didn't take advantage of internet that much. I think, you know, for entrepreneurs, suddenly created the Yahoo, Amazon of the ChatGPT native era. That's what we should be all excited about. But for most of the Fortune 500 companies, your job is to surviving sort of the big revolution. So you at least need to do your walmart.com sooner than later, right? (laughs) So not be like GE, right? You know, hand waving, hey, I do a lot of the internet, but you know, when you look back last 20, 30 years, what did they do much with leveraging the- >> So you think they're going to jump in, they're going to build service companies or SaaS tech companies or Supercloud companies? >> Howie: Okay, so there are two type of opportunities from that perspective. One is, you know, the OpenAI ish kind of the companies, I think the OpenAI, the game is still open, right? You know, it's really Close AI today. (laughs) >> John: There's room for competition, you mean? >> There's room for competition, right. You know, you can still spend you know, 50, $100 million to build something interesting. You know, there are company like Cohere and so on and so on. There are a bunch of companies, I think there is that. And then there are companies who's going to leverage those sort of the new AI primitives. I think, you know, we have been talking about AI forever, but finally, finally, it's no longer just good, but also super useful. I think, you know, the time is now. >> John: And if you have the cloud behind you, what do you make the Amazon do differently? 'Cause Amazon Web Services is only going to grow with this. It's not going to get smaller. There's more horsepower to handle, there's more needs. >> Howie: Well, Microsoft already showed what's the future, right? You know, you know, yes, there is a kind of the container, you know, the serverless that will continue to grow. But the future is really not about- >> John: Microsoft's shown the future? >> Well, showing that, you know, working with OpenAI, right? >> Oh okay. >> They already said that, you know, we are going to have ChatGPT service. >> $10 billion, I think they're putting it. >> $10 billion putting, and also open up the Open API services, right? You know, I actually made a prediction that Microsoft future hinges on OpenAI. I think, you know- >> John: They believe that $10 billion bet. >> Dave: Yeah. $10 billion bet. So I want to ask you a question. It's somewhat academic, but it's relevant. For a number of years, it looked like having first mover advantage wasn't an advantage. PCs, spreadsheets, the browser, right? Social media, Friendster, right? Mobile. Apple wasn't first to mobile. But that's somewhat changed. The cloud, AWS was first. You could debate whether or not, but AWS okay, they have first mover advantage. Crypto, Bitcoin, first mover advantage. Do you think OpenAI will have first mover advantage? >> It certainly has its advantage today. I think it's year two. I mean, I think the game is still out there, right? You know, we're still in the first inning, early inning of the game. So I don't think that the game is over for the rest of the players, whether the big players or the OpenAI kind of the, sort of competitors. So one of the VCs actually asked me the other day, right? "Hey, how much money do I need to spend, invest, to get, you know, another shot to the OpenAI sort of the level?" You know, I did a- (laughs) >> Line up. >> That's classic VC. "How much does it cost me to replicate?" >> I'm pretty sure he asked the question to a bunch of guys, right? >> Good luck with that. (laughs) >> So we kind of did some napkin- >> What'd you come up with? (laughs) >> $100 million is the order of magnitude that I came up with, right? You know, not a billion, not 10 million, right? So 100 million. >> John: Hundreds of millions. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100 million order of magnitude is what I came up with. You know, we can get into details, you know, in other sort of the time, but- >> Dave: That's actually not that much if you think about it. >> Howie: Exactly. So when he heard me articulating why is that, you know, he's thinking, right? You know, he actually, you know, asked me, "Hey, you know, there's this company. Do you happen to know this company? Can I reach out?" You know, those things. So I truly believe it's not a billion or 10 billion issue, it's more like 100. >> John: And also, your other point about referencing the internet revolution as a good comparable. The other thing there is online user population was a big driver of the growth of that. So what's the equivalent here for online user population for AI? Is it more apps, more users? I mean, we're still early on, it's first inning. >> Yeah. We're kind of the, you know- >> What's the key metric for success of this sector? Do you have a read on that? >> I think the, you know, the number of users is a good metrics, but I think it's going to be a lot of people are going to use AI services without even knowing they're using it, right? You know, I think a lot of the applications are being already built on top of OpenAI, and then they are kind of, you know, help people to do marketing, legal documents, you know, so they're already inherently OpenAI kind of the users already. So I think yeah. >> Well, Howie, we've got to wrap, but I really appreciate you coming on. I want to give you a last minute to wrap up here. In your experience, and you've seen many waves of innovation. You've even had your hands in a lot of the big waves past three inflection points. And obviously, machine learning you're doing now, you're deep end. Why is this Supercloud movement, this wave of Supercloud and the discussion of this next inflection point, why is it so important? For the folks watching, why should they be paying attention to this particular moment in time? Could you share your super clip on Supercloud? >> Howie: Right. So this is simple from my point of view. So why do you even have cloud to begin with, right? IT is too complex, too complex to operate or too expensive. So there's a newer model. There is a better model, right? Let someone else operate it, there is elasticity out of it, right? That's great. Until you have multiple vendors, right? Many vendors even, you know, we're talking about kind of how to make multiple vendors look like the same, but frankly speaking, even one vendor has, you know, thousand services. Now it's kind of getting, what Kid was talking about what, cloud chaos, right? It's the evolution. You know, the history repeats itself, right? You know, you have, you know, next great things and then too many great things, and then people need to sort of abstract this out. So it's almost that you must do this. But I think how to abstract this out is something that at this time, AI is going to help a lot, right? You know, like I mentioned, right? A lot of the abstraction, you don't have to think about API anymore. I bet 10 years from now, you know, IT is one language away, not API away. So think about that world, right? So Supercloud in, in my opinion, sure, you kind of abstract things out. You have, you know, consistent layers. But who's going to do that? Is that like we all agreed upon the model, agreed upon those APIs? Not necessary. There are certain, you know, truth in that, but there are other truths, let bots take care of, right? Whether you know, I want some X happens, whether it's going to be done by Azure, by AWS, by GCP, bots will figure out at a given time with certain contacts with your security requirement, posture requirement. I'll think that out. >> John: That's awesome. And you know, Dave, you and I have been talking about this. We think scale is the new ratification. If you have first mover advantage, I'll see the benefit, but scale is a huge thing. OpenAI, AWS. >> Howie: Yeah. Every day, we are using OpenAI. Today, we are labeling data for them. So you know, that's a little bit of the- (laughs) >> John: Yeah. >> First mover advantage that other people don't have, right? So it's kind of scary. So I'm very sure that Google is a little bit- (laughs) >> When we do our super AI event, you're definitely going to be keynoting. (laughs) >> Howie: I think, you know, we're talking about Supercloud, you know, before long, we are going to talk about super intelligent cloud. (laughs) >> I'm super excited, Howie, about this. Thanks for coming on. Great to see you, Howie Xu. Always a great analyst for us contributing to the community. VP of Machine Learning and Zscaler, industry legend and friend of theCUBE. Thanks for coming on and sharing really, really great advice and insight into what this next wave means. This Supercloud is the next wave. "If you're not on it, you're driftwood," says Pat Gelsinger. So you're going to see a lot more discussion. We'll be back more here live in Palo Alto after this short break. >> Thank you. (upbeat music)

>>Hey, welcome back everyone. Day three of eight of us Reinvent 2022. I'm John Farmer with Dave Volante, co-host the q Dave. 10 years for us, the leader in high tech coverage is our slogan. Now 10 years of reinvent day. We've been to every single one except with the original, which we would've come to if Amazon actually marketed the event, but they didn't. It's more of a customer event. This is day three. Is the machine learning ai keynote sws up there. A lot of announcements. We're gonna break this down. We got, we got Andy Thra here, vice President, prince Constellation Research. Andy, great to see you've been on the cube before one of our analysts bringing the, bringing the, the analysis, commentary to the keynote. This is your wheelhouse. Ai. What do you think about Swami up there? I mean, he's awesome. We love him. Big fan Oh yeah. Of of the Cuban we're fans of him, but he got 13 announcements. >>A lot. A lot, >>A lot. >>So, well some of them are, first of all, thanks for having me here and I'm glad to have both of you on the same show attacking me. I'm just kidding. But some of the announcement really sort of like a game changer announcements and some of them are like, meh, you know, just to plug in the holes what they have and a lot of golf claps. Yeah. Meeting today. And you could have also noticed that by, when he was making the announcements, you know, the, the, the clapping volume difference, you could say, which is better, right? But some of the announcements are, are really, really good. You know, particularly we talked about, one of that was Microsoft took that out of, you know, having the open AI in there, doing the large language models. And then they were going after that, you know, having the transformer available to them. And Amazon was a little bit weak in the area, so they couldn't, they don't have a large language model. So, you know, they, they are taking a different route saying that, you know what, I'll help you train the large language model by yourself, customized models. So I can provide the necessary instance. I can provide the instant volume, memory, the whole thing. Yeah. So you can train the model by yourself without depending on them kind >>Of thing. So Dave and Andy, I wanna get your thoughts cuz first of all, we've been following Amazon's deep bench on the, on the infrastructure pass. They've been doing a lot of machine learning and ai, a lot of data. It just seems that the sentiment is that there's other competitors doing a good job too. Like Google, Dave. And I've heard folks in the hallway, even here, ex Amazonians saying, Hey, they're train their models on Google than they bring up the SageMaker cuz it's better interface. So you got, Google's making a play for being that data cloud. Microsoft's obviously putting in a, a great kind of package to kind of make it turnkey. How do they really stand versus the competition guys? >>Good question. So they, you know, each have their own uniqueness and the we variation that take it to the field, right? So for example, if you were to look at it, Microsoft is known for as industry or later things that they are been going after, you know, industry verticals and whatnot. So that's one of the things I looked here, you know, they, they had this omic announcement, particularly towards that healthcare genomics space. That's a huge space for hpz related AIML applications. And they have put a lot of things in together in here in the SageMaker and in the, in their models saying that, you know, how do you, how do you use this transmit to do things like that? Like for example, drug discovery, for genomics analysis, for cancer treatment, the whole, right? That's a few volumes of data do. So they're going in that healthcare area. Google has taken a different route. I mean they want to make everything simple. All I have to do is I gotta call an api, give what I need and then get it done. But Amazon wants to go at a much deeper level saying that, you know what? I wanna provide everything you need. You can customize the whole thing for what you need. >>So to me, the big picture here is, and and Swami references, Hey, we are a data company. We started, he talked about books and how that informed them as to, you know, what books to place front and center. Here's the, here's the big picture. In my view, companies need to put data at the core of their business and they haven't, they've generally put humans at the core of their business and data. And now machine learning are at the, at the outside and the periphery. Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Facebook have put data at their core. So the question is how do incumbent companies, and you mentioned some Toyota Capital One, Bristol Myers Squibb, I don't know, are those data companies, you know, we'll see, but the challenge is most companies don't have the resources as you well know, Andy, to actually implement what Google and Facebook and others have. >>So how are they gonna do that? Well, they're gonna buy it, right? So are they gonna build it with tools that's kind of like you said the Amazon approach or are they gonna buy it from Microsoft and Google, I pulled some ETR data to say, okay, who are the top companies that are showing up in terms of spending? Who's spending with whom? AWS number one, Microsoft number two, Google number three, data bricks. Number four, just in terms of, you know, presence. And then it falls down DataRobot, Anaconda data icu, Oracle popped up actually cuz they're embedding a lot of AI into their products and, and of course IBM and then a lot of smaller companies. But do companies generally customers have the resources to do what it takes to implement AI into applications and into workflows? >>So a couple of things on that. One is when it comes to, I mean it's, it's no surprise that the, the top three or the hyperscalers, because they all want to bring their business to them to run the specific workloads on the next biggest workload. As you was saying, his keynote are two things. One is the A AIML workloads and the other one is the, the heavy unstructured workloads that he was talking about. 80%, 90% of the data that's coming off is unstructured. So how do you analyze that? Such as the geospatial data. He was talking about the volumes of data you need to analyze the, the neural deep neural net drug you ought to use, only hyperscale can do it, right? So that's no wonder all of them on top for the data, one of the things they announced, which not many people paid attention, there was a zero eight L that that they talked about. >>What that does is a little bit of a game changing moment in a sense that you don't have to, for example, if you were to train the data, data, if the data is distributed everywhere, if you have to bring them all together to integrate it, to do that, it's a lot of work to doing the dl. So by taking Amazon, Aurora, and then Rich combine them as zero or no ETL and then have Apaches Apaches Spark applications run on top of analytical applications, ML workloads. That's huge. So you don't have to move around the data, use the data where it is, >>I, I think you said it, they're basically filling holes, right? Yeah. They created this, you know, suite of tools, let's call it. You might say it's a mess. It's not a mess because it's, they're really powerful but they're not well integrated and now they're starting to take the seams as I say. >>Well yeah, it's a great point. And I would double down and say, look it, I think that boring is good. You know, we had that phase in Kubernetes hype cycle where it got boring and that was kind of like, boring is good. Boring means we're getting better, we're invisible. That's infrastructure that's in the weeds, that's in between the toes details. It's the stuff that, you know, people we have to get done. So, you know, you look at their 40 new data sources with data Wrangler 50, new app flow connectors, Redshift Auto Cog, this is boring. Good important shit Dave. The governance, you gotta get it and the governance is gonna be key. So, so to me, this may not jump off the page. Adam's keynote also felt a little bit of, we gotta get these gaps done in a good way. So I think that's a very positive sign. >>Now going back to the bigger picture, I think the real question is can there be another independent cloud data cloud? And that's the, to me, what I try to get at my story and you're breaking analysis kind of hit a home run on this, is there's interesting opportunity for an independent data cloud. Meaning something that isn't aws, that isn't, Google isn't one of the big three that could sit in. And so let me give you an example. I had a conversation last night with a bunch of ex Amazonian engineering teams that left the conversation was interesting, Dave. They were like talking, well data bricks and Snowflake are basically batch, okay, not transactional. And you look at Aerospike, I can see their booth here. Transactional data bases are hot right now. Streaming data is different. Confluence different than data bricks. Is data bricks good at hosting? >>No, Amazon's better. So you start to see these kinds of questions come up where, you know, data bricks is great, but maybe not good for this, that and the other thing. So you start to see the formation of swim lanes or visibility into where people might sit in the ecosystem, but what came out was transactional. Yep. And batch the relationship there and streaming real time and versus you know, the transactional data. So you're starting to see these new things emerge. Andy, what do you, what's your take on this? You're following this closely. This seems to be the alpha nerd conversation and it all points to who's gonna have the best data cloud, say data, super clouds, I call it. What's your take? >>Yes, data cloud is important as well. But also the computational that goes on top of it too, right? Because when, when the data is like unstructured data, it's that much of a huge data, it's going to be hard to do that with a low model, you know, compute power. But going back to your data point, the training of the AIML models required the batch data, right? That's when you need all the, the historical data to train your models. And then after that, when you do inference of it, that's where you need the streaming real time data that's available to you too. You can make an inference. One of the things, what, what they also announced, which is somewhat interesting, is you saw that they have like 700 different instances geared towards every single workload. And there are some of them very specifically run on the Amazon's new chip. The, the inference in two and theran tr one chips that basically not only has a specific instances but also is run on a high powered chip. And then if you have that data to support that, both the training as well as towards the inference, the efficiency, again, those numbers have to be proven. They claim that it could be anywhere between 40 to 60% faster. >>Well, so a couple things. You're definitely right. I mean Snowflake started out as a data warehouse that was simpler and it's not architected, you know, in and it's first wave to do real time inference, which is not now how, how could they, the other second point is snowflake's two or three years ahead when it comes to governance, data sharing. I mean, Amazon's doing what always does. It's copying, you know, it's customer driven. Cuz they probably walk into an account and they say, Hey look, what's Snowflake's doing for us? This stuff's kicking ass. And they go, oh, that's a good idea, let's do that too. You saw that with separating compute from storage, which is their tiering. You saw it today with extending data, sharing Redshift, data sharing. So how does Snowflake and data bricks approach this? They deal with ecosystem. They bring in ecosystem partners, they bring in open source tooling and that's how they compete. I think there's unquestionably an opportunity for a data cloud. >>Yeah, I think, I think the super cloud conversation and then, you know, sky Cloud with Berkeley Paper and other folks talking about this kind of pre, multi-cloud era. I mean that's what I would call us right now. We are, we're kind of in the pre era of multi-cloud, which by the way is not even yet defined. I think people use that term, Dave, to say, you know, some sort of magical thing that's happening. Yeah. People have multiple clouds. They got, they, they end up by default, not by design as Dell likes to say. Right? And they gotta deal with it. So it's more of they're inheriting multiple cloud environments. It's not necessarily what they want in the situation. So to me that is a big, big issue. >>Yeah, I mean, again, going back to your snowflake and data breaks announcements, they're a data company. So they, that's how they made their mark in the market saying that, you know, I do all those things, therefore you have, I had to have your data because it's a seamless data. And, and Amazon is catching up with that with a lot of that announcements they made, how far it's gonna get traction, you know, to change when I to say, >>Yeah, I mean to me, to me there's no doubt about Dave. I think, I think what Swamee is doing, if Amazon can get corner the market on out of the box ML and AI capabilities so that people can make it easier, that's gonna be the end of the day tell sign can they fill in the gaps. Again, boring is good competition. I don't know mean, mean I'm not following the competition. Andy, this is a real question mark for me. I don't know where they stand. Are they more comprehensive? Are they more deeper? Are they have deeper services? I mean, obviously shows to all the, the different, you know, capabilities. Where, where, where does Amazon stand? What's the process? >>So what, particularly when it comes to the models. So they're going at, at a different angle that, you know, I will help you create the models we talked about the zero and the whole data. We'll get the data sources in, we'll create the model. We'll move the, the whole model. We are talking about the ML ops teams here, right? And they have the whole functionality that, that they built ind over the year. So essentially they want to become the platform that I, when you come in, I'm the only platform you would use from the model training to deployment to inference, to model versioning to management, the old s and that's angle they're trying to take. So it's, it's a one source platform. >>What about this idea of technical debt? Adrian Carro was on yesterday. John, I know you talked to him as well. He said, look, Amazon's Legos, you wanna buy a toy for Christmas, you can go out and buy a toy or do you wanna build a, to, if you buy a toy in a couple years, you could break and what are you gonna do? You're gonna throw it out. But if you, if you, if part of your Lego needs to be extended, you extend it. So, you know, George Gilbert was saying, well, there's a lot of technical debt. Adrian was countering that. Does Amazon have technical debt or is that Lego blocks analogy the right one? >>Well, I talked to him about the debt and one of the things we talked about was what do you optimize for E two APIs or Kubernetes APIs? It depends on what team you're on. If you're on the runtime gene, you're gonna optimize for Kubernetes, but E two is the resources you want to use. So I think the idea of the 15 years of technical debt, I, I don't believe that. I think the APIs are still hardened. The issue that he brings up that I think is relevant is it's an end situation, not an or. You can have the bag of Legos, which is the primitives and build a durable application platform, monitor it, customize it, work with it, build it. It's harder, but the outcome is durability and sustainability. Building a toy, having a toy with those Legos glued together for you, you can get the play with, but it'll break over time. Then you gotta replace it. So there's gonna be a toy business and there's gonna be a Legos business. Make your own. >>So who, who are the toys in ai? >>Well, out of >>The box and who's outta Legos? >>The, so you asking about what what toys Amazon building >>Or, yeah, I mean Amazon clearly is Lego blocks. >>If people gonna have out the box, >>What about Google? What about Microsoft? Are they basically more, more building toys, more solutions? >>So Google is more of, you know, building solutions angle like, you know, I give you an API kind of thing. But, but if it comes to vertical industry solutions, Microsoft is, is is ahead, right? Because they have, they have had years of indu industry experience. I mean there are other smaller cloud are trying to do that too. IBM being an example, but you know, the, now they are starting to go after the specific industry use cases. They think that through, for example, you know the medical one we talked about, right? So they want to build the, the health lake, security health lake that they're trying to build, which will HIPPA and it'll provide all the, the European regulations, the whole line yard, and it'll help you, you know, personalize things as you need as well. For example, you know, if you go for a certain treatment, it could analyze you based on your genome profile saying that, you know, the treatment for this particular person has to be individualized this way, but doing that requires a anomalous power, right? So if you do applications like that, you could bring in a lot of the, whether healthcare, finance or what have you, and then easy for them to use. >>What's the biggest mistake customers make when it comes to machine intelligence, ai, machine learning, >>So many things, right? I could start out with even the, the model. Basically when you build a model, you, you should be able to figure out how long that model is effective. Because as good as creating a model and, and going to the business and doing things the right way, there are people that they leave the model much longer than it's needed. It's hurting your business more than it is, you know, it could be things like that. Or you are, you are not building a responsibly or later things. You are, you are having a bias and you model and are so many issues. I, I don't know if I can pinpoint one, but there are many, many issues. Responsible ai, ethical ai. All >>Right, well, we'll leave it there. You're watching the cube, the leader in high tech coverage here at J three at reinvent. I'm Jeff, Dave Ante. Andy joining us here for the critical analysis and breaking down the commentary. We'll be right back with more coverage after this short break.