(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to Supercloud 2 this is Dave Vellante. We're here exploring the intersection of data and analytics and the future of cloud. And in this segment, we're going to look at the evolution of cloud, and try to test some of the Supercloud concepts and assumptions with Brian Gracely, is the founder and co-host along with Aaron Delp of the popular Cloudcast program. Amazing series, if you're not already familiar with it. The Cloudcast is one of the best ways to keep up with so many things going on in our industry. Enterprise tech, platform engineering, business models, obviously, cloud developer trends, crypto, Web 3.0. Sorry Brian, I know that's a sore spot, but Brian, thanks for coming >> That's okay. >> on the program, really appreciate it. >> Yeah, great to be with you, Dave. Happy New Year, and great to be back with everybody with SiliconANGLE again this year. >> Yeah, we love having you on. We miss working with you day-to-day, but I want to start with Gracely's theorem, which basically says, I'm going to paraphrase. For the most part, nothing new gets introduced in the enterprise tech business, patterns repeat themselves, maybe get applied in new ways. And you know this industry well, when something comes out that's new, if you take virtualization, for example, been around forever with mainframes, but then VMware applied it, solve a real problem in the client service system. And then it's like, "Okay, this is awesome." We get really excited and then after a while we pushed the architecture, we break things, introduce new things to fix the things that are broken and start adding new features. And oftentimes you do that through acquisitions. So, you know, has the cloud become that sort of thing? And is Supercloud sort of same wine, new bottle, following Gracely's theorem? >> Yeah, I think there's some of both of it. I hate to be the sort of, it depends sort of answer but, I think to a certain extent, you know, obviously Cloud in and of itself was, kind of revolutionary in that, you know, it wasn't that you couldn't rent things in the past, it was just being able to do it at scale, being able to do it with such amazing self-service. And then, you know, kind of proliferation of like, look at how many services I can get from, from one cloud, whether it was Amazon or Azure or Google. And then, you know, we, we slip back into the things that we know, we go, "Oh, well, okay, now I can get computing on demand, but, now it's just computing." Or I can get database on demand and it's, you know, it's got some of the same limitations of, of say, of database, right? It's still, you know, I have to think about IOPS and I have to think about caching, and other stuff. So, I think we do go through that and then we, you know, we have these sort of next paradigms that come along. So, you know, serverless was another one of those where it was like, okay, it seems sort of new. I don't have to, again, it was another level of like, I don't have to think about anything. And I was able to do that because, you know, there was either greater bandwidth available to me, or compute got cheaper. And what's been interesting is not the sort of, that specific thing, serverless in and of itself is just another way of doing compute, but the fact that it now gets applied as, sort of a no-ops model to, you know, again, like how do I provision a database? How do I think about, you know, do I have to think about the location of a service? Does that just get taken care of for me? So I think the Supercloud concept, and I did a thing and, and you and I have talked about it, you know, behind the scenes that maybe the, maybe a better name is Super app for something like Snowflake or other, but I think we're, seeing these these sort of evolutions over and over again of what were the big bottlenecks? How do we, how do we solve those bottlenecks? And I think the big thing here is, it's never, it's very rarely that you can take the old paradigm of what the thing was, the concept was, and apply it to the new model. So, I'll just give you an example. So, you know, something like VMware, which we all know, wildly popular, wildly used, but when we apply like a Supercloud concept of VMware, the concept of VMware has always been around a cluster, right? It's some finite number of servers, you sort of manage it as a cluster. And when you apply that to the cloud and you say, okay, there's, you know, for example, VMware in the cloud, it's still the same concept of a cluster of VMware. But yet when you look at some of these other services that would fit more into the, you know, Supercloud kind of paradigm, whether it's a Snowflake or a MongoDB Atlas or maybe what CloudFlare is doing at the edge, those things get rid of some of those old paradigms. And I think that's where stuff, you start to go, "Oh, okay, this is very different than before." Yes, it's still computing or storage, or data access, but there's a whole nother level of something that we didn't carry forward from the previous days. And that really kind of breaks the paradigm. And so that's the way I think I've started to think about, are these things really brand new? Yes and no, but I think it's when you can see that big, that thing that you didn't leave behind isn't there anymore, you start to get some really interesting new innovation come out of it. >> Yeah. And that's why, you know, lift and shift is okay, when you talk to practitioners, they'll say, "You know, I really didn't change my operating model. And so I just kind of moved it into the cloud. there were some benefits, but it was maybe one zero not three zeros that I was looking for." >> Right. >> You know, we always talk about what's great about cloud, the agility, and all the other wonderful stuff that we know, what's not working in cloud, you know, tie it into multi-cloud, you know, in terms of, you hear people talk about multi-cloud by accident, okay, that's true. >> Yep. >> What's not great about cloud. And then I want to get into, you know, is multi-cloud really a problem or is it just sort of vendor hype? But, but what's not working in cloud? I mean, you mentioned serverless and serverless is kind of narrow, right, for a lot of stateless apps, right? But, what's not great about cloud? >> Well, I think there's a few things that if you ask most people they don't love about cloud. I think, we can argue whether or not sort of this consolidation around a few cloud providers has been a good thing or a bad thing. I think, regardless of that, you know, we are seeing, we are hearing more and more people that say, look, you know, the experience I used to have with cloud when I went to, for example, an Amazon and there was, you know, a dozen services, it was easy to figure out what was going on. It was easy to figure out what my billing looked like. You know, now they've become so widespread, the number of services they have, you know, the number of stories you just hear of people who went, "Oh, I started a service over in US West and I can't find it anymore 'cause it's on a different screen. And I, you know, I just got billed for it." Like, so I think the sprawl of some of the clouds has gotten, has created a user experience that a lot of people are frustrated with. I think that's one thing. And we, you know, we see people like Digital Ocean and we see others who are saying, "Hey, we're going to be that simplified version." So, there's always that yin and yang. I think people are super frustrated at network costs, right? So, you know, and that's kind of at a lot of, at the center of maybe why we do or don't see more of these Supercloud services is just, you know, in the data center as an application owner, I didn't have to think about, well where, where does this go to? Where are my users? Yes, somebody took care of it, but when those things become front and center, that's super frustrating. That's the one area that we've seen absolutely no cost savings, cost reduction. So I think that frustrates people a lot. And then I think the third piece is just, you know, we're, we went from super centralized IT organizations, which, you know, for decades was how it worked. It was part of the reason why the cloud expanded and became a thing, right? Sort of shadow IT and I can't get things done. And then, now what we've seen is sort of this proliferation of little pockets of groups that are your IT, for lack of a better thing, whether they're called platform engineering or SRE or DevOps. But we have this, expansion, explosion if you will, of groups that, if I'm an app dev team, I go, "Hey, you helped me make this stuff run, but then the team next to you has another group and they have another group." And so you see this explosion of, you know, we don't have any standards in the company anymore. And, so sort of self-service has created its own nightmare to a certain extent for a lot of larger companies. >> Yeah. Thank you for that. So, you know, I want, I want to explore this multi-cloud, you know, by accident thing and is a real problem. You hear that a lot from vendors and we've been talking about Supercloud as this unifying layer across cloud. You know, but when you talk to customers, a lot of them are saying, "Yes, we have multiple clouds in our organization, but my group, we have mono cloud, we know the security, edicts, we know how to, you know, deal with the primitives, whether it's, you know, S3 or Azure Blob or whatever it is. And we're very comfortable with this." It's, that's how we're simplifying. So, do you think this is really a problem? Does it have merit that we need that unifying layer across clouds, or is it just too early for that? >> I think, yeah, I think what you, what you've laid out is basically how the world has played out. People have picked a cloud for a specific application or a series of applications. Yeah, and I think if you talk to most companies, they would tell you, you know, holistically, yes, we're multi-cloud, not, maybe not necessarily on, I don't necessarily love the phrase where people say like, well it happened by accident. I think it happened on purpose, but we got to multi-cloud, not in the way that maybe that vendors, you know, perceived, you know, kind of laid out a map for. So it was, it was, well you will lay out this sort of Supercloud framework. We didn't call it that back then, we just called it sort of multi-cloud. Maybe it was Kubernetes or maybe it was whatever. And different groups, because central IT kind of got disbanded or got fragmented. It turned into, go pick the best cloud for your application, for what you need to do for the business. And then, you know, multiple years later it was like, "Oh, hold on, I've got 20% in Google and 50% in AWS and I've got 30% in Azure. And, you know, it's, yeah, it's been evolution. I don't know that it's, I don't know if it's a mistake. I think it's now groups trying to figure out like, should I make sense of it? You know, should I try and standardize and I backwards standardize some stuff? I think that's going to be a hard thing for, for companies to do. 'cause I think they feel okay with where the applications are. They just happen to be in multiple clouds. >> I want to run something by you, and you guys, you and Aaron have talked about this. You know, still depending on who, which keynote you listen to, small percentage of the workloads are actually in cloud. And when you were with us at Wikibon, I think we called it true private cloud, and we looked at things like Nutanix and there were a lot of other examples of companies that were trying to replicate the hyperscale experience on Prem. >> Yeah. >> And, we would evaluate that, you know, beyond virtualization, and so we sort of defined that and, but I think what's, maybe what's more interesting than Supercloud across clouds is if you include that, that on Prem estate, because that's where most of the work is being done, that's where a lot of the proprietary tools have been built, a lot of data, a lot of software. So maybe there's this concept of sending that true private cloud to true hybrid cloud. So I actually think hybrid cloud in some cases is the more interesting use case for so-called Supercloud. What are your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I think there's a couple aspects too. I think, you know, if we were to go back five or six years even, maybe even a little further and look at like what a data center looked like, even if it was just, "Hey we're a data center that runs primarily on VMware. We use some of their automation". Versus what you can, even what you can do in your data center today. The, you know, the games that people have seen through new types of automation through Kubernetes, through get ops, and a number of these things, like they've gotten significantly further along in terms of I can provision stuff really well, I can do multi-tenancy, I can do self-service. Is it, you know, is it still hard? Yeah. Because those things are hard to do, but there's been significant progress there. I don't, you know, I still look for kind of that, that killer application, that sort of, you know, lighthouse use case of, hybrid applications, you know, between data center and between cloud. I think, you know, we see some stuff where, you know, backup is a part of it. So you use the cloud for storage, maybe you use the cloud for certain kinds of resiliency, especially on maybe front end load balancing and stuff. But I think, you know, I think what we get into is, this being hung up on hybrid cloud or multi-cloud as a term and go like, "Look, what are you trying to measure? Are you trying to measure, you know, efficiency of of of IT usage? Are you trying to measure how quickly can I give these business, you know, these application teams that are part of a line of business resources that they need?" I think if we start measuring that way, we would look at, you know, you'd go, "Wow, it used to be weeks and months. Now we got rid of these boards that have to review everything every time I want to do a change management type of thing." We've seen a lot more self-service. I think those are the things we want to measure on. And then to your point of, you know, where does, where do these Supercloud applications fit in? I think there are a bunch of instances where you go, "Look, I have a, you know, global application, I have a thing that has to span multiple regions." That's where the Supercloud concept really comes into play. We used to do it in the data center, right? We'd had all sorts of technologies to help with that, I think you can now start to do it in the cloud. >> You know, one of the other things, trying to understand, your thoughts on this, do you think that you, you again have talked about this, like I'm with you. It's like, how is it that Google's losing, you know, 3 billion dollars a year, whatever. I mean, because when you go back and look at Amazon, when they were at that level of revenue where Google is today, they were making money, you know, and they were actually growing faster, by the way. So it's kind of interesting what's happened with Google. But, the reason I bring that up is, trying to understand if you think the hyperscalers will ever be motivated to create standards across clouds, and that may be a play for Google. I mean, obviously with Kubernetes it was like a Hail Mary and kind of made them relevant. Where would Google be without Kubernetes? But then did it achieve the objectives? We could have that conversation some other time, but do you think the hyperscalers will actually say, "Okay, we're going to lean in and create these standards across clouds." Because customers would love that, I would think, but it would sub-optimize their competitive advantage. What are your thoughts? >> I think, you know, on the surface, I would say they, they probably aren't. I think if you asked 'em the question, they would say, "Well, you know, first and foremost, you know, we do deliver standards, so we deliver a, you know, standard SQL interface or a SQL you know, or a standard Kubernetes API or whatever. So, in that, from that perspective, you know, we're not locking you into, you know, an Amazon specific database, or a Google specific database." You, you can argue about that, but I think to a certain extent, like they've been very good about, "Hey, we're going to adopt the standards that people want." A lot of times the open source standards. I think the problem is, let's say they did come up with a standard for it. I think you still have the problem of the costs of migration and you know, the longer you've, I think their bet is basically the longer you've been in some cloud. And again, the more data you sort of compile there, the data gravity concept, there's just going to be a natural thing that says, okay, the hurdle to get over to say, "Look, we want to move this to another cloud", becomes so cost prohibitive that they don't really have to worry about, you know, oh, I'm going to get into a war of standards. And so far I think they sort of realize like that's the flywheel that the cloud creates. And you know, unless they want to get into a world where they just cut bandwidth costs, like it just kind of won't happen. You know, I think we've even seen, and you know, the one example I'll use, and I forget the name of it off the top of my head, but there's a, there's a Google service. I think it's like BigQuery external or something along those lines, that allows you to say, "Look, you can use BigQuery against like S3 buckets and against other stuff." And so I think the cloud providers have kind of figured out, I'm never going to get the application out of that other guy's cloud or you know, the other cloud. But maybe I'm going to have to figure out some interesting ways to sort of work with it. And, you know, it's a little bit, it's a little janky, but that might be, you know, a moderate step that sort of gets customers where they want to be. >> Yeah. Or you know, it'd be interesting if you ever see AWS for example, running its database in other clouds, you started, even Oracle is doing that with, with with Azure, which is a form of Supercloud. My last question for you is, I want to get you thinking about sort of how the future plays out. You know, think about some of the companies that we've put forth this Supercloud, and by the way, this has been a criticism of the concept. Charles Fitzer, "Everything is Supercloud!" Which if true would defeat the purpose of course. >> Right. >> And so right with the community effort, we really tried to put some guardrails down on the essential characteristics, the deployment models, you know, so for example, running across multiple clouds with a purpose build pass, creating a common experience, metadata intelligence that solves a specific problem. I mean, the example I often use is Snowflake's governed data sharing. But yeah, Snowflake, Databricks, CloudFlare, Cohesity, you know, I just mentioned Oracle and Azure, these and others, they certainly claim to have that common experience across clouds. But my question is, again, I come back to, do customers need this capability? You know, is Mono Cloud the way to solve that problem? What's your, what are your thoughts on how this plays out in the future of, I guess, PAs, apps and cloud? >> Yeah, I think a couple of things. So, from a technology perspective, I think, you know, the companies you name, the services you've named, have sort of proven that the concept is viable and it's viable at a reasonable size, right? These aren't completely niche businesses, right? They're multi-billion dollar businesses. So, I think there's a subset of applications that, you know, maybe a a bigger than a niche set of applications that are going to use these types of things. A lot of what you talked about is very data centric, and that's, that's fine. That's that layer is, figuring that out. I think we'll see messaging types of services, so like Derek Hallison's, Caya Company runs a, sort of a Supercloud for messaging applications. So I think there'll be places where it makes a ton of sense. I think, the thing that I'm not sure about, and because again, we've been now 10 plus years of sort of super low, you know, interest rates in terms of being able to do things, is a lot of these things come out of research that have been done previously. Then they get turned into maybe somewhat of an open source project, and then they can become something. You know, will we see as much investment into the next Snowflake if, you know, the interest rates are three or four times that they used to be, do we, do we see VCs doing it? So that's the part that worries me a little bit, is I think we've seen what's possible. I think, you know, we've seen companies like what those services are. I think I read yesterday Snowflake was saying like, their biggest customers are growing at 30, like 50 or 60%. Like the, value they get out of it is becoming exponential. And it's just a matter of like, will the economics allow the next big thing to happen? Because some of these things are pretty, pretty costly, you know, expensive to get started. So I'm bullish on the idea. I don't know that it becomes, I think it's okay that it's still sort of, you know, niche plus, plus in terms of the size of it. Because, you know, if we think about all of IT it's still, you know, even microservices is a small part of bigger things. But I'm still really bullish on the idea. I like that it's been proven. I'm a little wary, like a lot of people have the economics of, you know, what might slow things down a little bit. But yeah, I, think the future is going to involve Supercloud somewhere, whatever people end up calling it. And you and I discussed that. (laughs) But I don't, I don't think it goes away. I don't think it's, I don't think it's a fad. I think it is something that people see tremendous value and it's just, it's got to be, you know, for what you're trying to do, your application specific thing. >> You're making a great point on the funding of innovation and we're entering a new era of public policy as well. R and D tax credit is now is shifting. >> Yeah. >> You know, you're going to have to capitalize that over five years now. And that's something that goes back to the 1950s and many people would argue that's at least in part what has helped the United States be so, you know, competitive in tech. But Brian, always great to talk to you. Thanks so much for participating in the program. Great to see you. >> Thanks Dave, appreciate it. Good luck with the rest of the show. >> Thank you. All right, this is Dave Vellante for John Furrier, the entire Cube community. Stay tuned for more content from Supercloud2.

>> From the theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> Welcome to this week's Wikibon, theCUBE's insights powered by ETR. As we exited the isolation economy last year, supercloud is a term that we introduced to describe something new that was happening in the world of cloud. In this Breaking Analysis, we address the 10 most frequently asked questions we get around supercloud. Okay, let's review these frequently asked questions on supercloud that we're going to try to answer today. Look at an industry that's full of hype and buzzwords. Why the hell does anyone need a new term? Aren't hyperscalers building out superclouds? We'll try to answer why the term supercloud connotes something different from hyperscale clouds. And we'll talk about the problems that superclouds solve specifically. And we'll further define the critical aspects of a supercloud architecture. We often get asked, isn't this just multi-cloud? Well, we don't think so, and we'll explain why in this Breaking Analysis. Now in an earlier episode, we introduced the notion of super PaaS. Well, isn't a plain vanilla PaaS already a super PaaS? Again, we don't think so, and we'll explain why. Who will actually build and who are the players currently building superclouds? What workloads and services will run on superclouds? And 8-A or number nine, what are some examples that we can share of supercloud? And finally, we'll answer what you can expect next from us on supercloud? Okay, let's get started. Why do we need another buzzword? Well, late last year, ahead of re:Invent, we were inspired by a post from Jerry Chen called "Castles in the Cloud." Now in that blog post, he introduced the idea that there were sub-markets emerging in cloud that presented opportunities for investors and entrepreneurs that the cloud wasn't going to suck the hyperscalers. Weren't going to suck all the value out of the industry. And so we introduced this notion of supercloud to describe what we saw as a value layer emerging above the hyperscalers CAPEX gift, we sometimes call it. Now it turns out, that we weren't the only ones using the term as both Cornell and MIT have used the phrase in somewhat similar, but different contexts. The point is something new was happening in the AWS and other ecosystems. It was more than IaaS and PaaS, and wasn't just SaaS running in the cloud. It was a new architecture that integrates infrastructure, platform and software as services to solve new problems that the cloud vendors in our view, weren't addressing by themselves. It seemed to us that the ecosystem was pursuing opportunities across clouds that went beyond conventional implementations of multi-cloud. And we felt there was a structural change going on at the industry level, the supercloud, metaphorically was highlighting. So that's the background on why we felt a new catch phrase was warranted, love it or hate it. It's memorable and it's what we chose. Now to that last point about structural industry transformation. Andy Rappaport is sometimes and often credited with identifying the shift from the vertically integrated IBM mainframe era to the fragmented PC microprocesor-based era in his HBR article in 1991. In fact, it was David Moschella, who at the time was an IDC Analyst who first introduced the concept in 1987, four years before Rappaport's article was published. Moschella saw that it was clear that Intel, Microsoft, Seagate and others would replace the system vendors, and put that forth in a graphic that looked similar to the first two on this chart. We don't have to review the shift from IBM as the center of the industry to Wintel, that's well understood. What isn't as well known or accepted is what Moschella put out in his 2018 book called "Seeing Digital" which introduced the idea of "The Matrix" that's shown on the right hand side of this chart. Moschella posited that new services were emerging built on top of the internet and hyperscale clouds that would integrate other innovations and would define the next era of computing. He used the term Matrix because the conceptual depiction included not only horizontal technology rose like the cloud and the internet, but for the first time included connected industry verticals, the columns in this chart. Moschella pointed out that whereas historically, industry verticals had a closed value chain or stack and ecosystem of R&D, and production, and manufacturing, and distribution. And if you were in that industry, the expertise within that vertical generally stayed within that vertical and was critical to success. But because of digital and data, for the first time, companies were able to traverse industries, jump across industries and compete because data enabled them to do that. Examples, Amazon and content, payments, groceries, Apple, and payments, and content, and so forth. There are many examples. Data was now this unifying enabler and this marked a change in the structure of the technology landscape. And supercloud is meant to imply more than running in hyperscale clouds, rather it's the combination of multiple technologies enabled by CloudScale with new industry participants from those verticals, financial services and healthcare, manufacturing, energy, media, and virtually all in any industry. Kind of an extension of every company is a software company. Basically, every company now has the opportunity to build their own cloud or supercloud. And we'll come back to that. Let's first address what's different about superclouds relative to hyperscale clouds? You know, this one's pretty straightforward and obvious, I think. Hyperscale clouds, they're walled gardens where they want your data in their cloud and they want to keep you there. Sure, every cloud player realizes that not all data will go to their particular cloud so they're meeting customers where their data lives with initiatives like Amazon Outposts and Azure Arc, and Google Anthos. But at the end of the day, the more homogeneous they can make their environments, the better control, security, cost, and performance they can deliver. The more complex the environment, the more difficult it is to deliver on their brand promises. And of course, the lesser margin that's left for them to capture. Will the hyperscalers get more serious about cross-cloud services? Maybe, but they have plenty of work to do within their own clouds and within enabling their own ecosystems. They had a long way to go a lot of runway. So let's talk about specifically, what problems superclouds solve? We've all seen the stats from IDC or Gartner, or whomever the customers on average use more than one cloud. You know, two clouds, three clouds, five clouds, 20 clouds. And we know these clouds operate in disconnected silos for the most part. And that's a problem because each cloud requires different skills because the development environment is different as is the operating environment. They have different APIs, different primitives, and different management tools that are optimized for each respective hyperscale cloud. Their functions and value props don't extend to their competitors' clouds for the most part. Why would they? As a result, there's friction when moving between different clouds. It's hard to share data, it's hard to move work. It's hard to secure and govern data. It's hard to enforce organizational edicts and policies across these clouds, and on-prem. Supercloud is an architecture designed to create a single environment that enables management of workloads and data across clouds in an effort to take out complexity, accelerate application development, streamline operations and share data safely, irrespective of location. It's pretty straightforward, but non-trivial, which is why I always ask a company's CEO and executives if stock buybacks and dividends will yield as much return as building out superclouds that solve really specific and hard problems, and create differential value. Okay, let's dig a bit more into the architectural aspects of supercloud. In other words, what are the salient attributes of supercloud? So first and foremost, a supercloud runs a set of specific services designed to solve a unique problem and it can do so in more than one cloud. Superclouds leverage the underlying cloud native tooling of a hyperscale cloud, but they're optimized for a specific objective that aligns with the problem that they're trying to solve. For example, supercloud might be optimized for lowest cost or lowest latency, or sharing data, or governing, or securing that data, or higher performance for networking, for example. But the point is, the collection of services that is being delivered is focused on a unique value proposition that is not being delivered by the hyperscalers across clouds. A supercloud abstracts the underlying and siloed primitives of the native PaaS layer from the hyperscale cloud and then using its own specific platform as a service tooling, creates a common experience across clouds for developers and users. And it does so in a most efficient manner, meaning it has the metadata knowledge and management capabilities that can optimize for latency, bandwidth, or recovery, or data sovereignty, or whatever unique value that supercloud is delivering for the specific use case in their domain. And a supercloud comprises a super PaaS capability that allows ecosystem partners through APIs to add incremental value on top of the supercloud platform to fill gaps, accelerate features, and of course innovate. The services can be infrastructure-related, they could be application services, they could be data services, security services, user services, et cetera, designed and packaged to bring unique value to customers. Again, that hyperscalers are not delivering across clouds or on-premises. Okay, so another common question we get is, isn't that just multi-cloud? And what we'd say to that is yes, but no. You can call it multi-cloud 2.0, if you want, if you want to use it, it's kind of a commonly used rubric. But as Dell's Chuck Whitten proclaimed at Dell Technologies World this year, multi-cloud by design, is different than multi-cloud by default. Meaning to date, multi-cloud has largely been a symptom of what we've called multi-vendor or of M&A, you buy a company and they happen to use Google Cloud, and so you bring it in. And when you look at most so-called, multi-cloud implementations, you see things like an on-prem stack, which is wrapped in a container and hosted on a specific cloud or increasingly a technology vendor has done the work of building a cloud native version of their stack and running it on a specific cloud. But historically, it's been a unique experience within each cloud with virtually no connection between the cloud silos. Supercloud sets out to build incremental value across clouds and above hyperscale CAPEX that goes beyond cloud compatibility within each cloud. So if you want to call it multi-cloud 2.0, that's fine, but we chose to call it supercloud. Okay, so at this point you may be asking, well isn't PaaS already a version of supercloud? And again, we would say no, that supercloud and its corresponding superPaaS layer which is a prerequisite, gives the freedom to store, process and manage, and secure, and connect islands of data across a continuum with a common experience across clouds. And the services offered are specific to that supercloud and will vary by each offering. Your OpenShift, for example, can be used to construct a superPaaS, but in and of itself, isn't a superPaaS, it's generic. A superPaaS might be developed to support, for instance, ultra low latency database work. It would unlikely again, taking the OpenShift example, it's unlikely that off-the-shelf OpenShift would be used to develop such a low latency superPaaS layer for ultra low latency database work. The point is supercloud and its inherent superPaaS will be optimized to solve specific problems like that low latency example for distributed databases or fast backup and recovery for data protection, and ransomware, or data sharing, or data governance. Highly specific use cases that the supercloud is designed to solve for. Okay, another question we often get is who has a supercloud today and who's building a supercloud, and who are the contenders? Well, most companies that consider themselves cloud players will, we believe, be building or are building superclouds. Here's a common ETR graphic that we like to show with Net Score or spending momentum on the Y axis and overlap or pervasiveness in the ETR surveys on the X axis. And we've randomly chosen a number of players that we think are in the supercloud mix, and we've included the hyperscalers because they are enablers. Now remember, this is a spectrum of maturity it's a maturity model and we've added some of those industry players that we see building superclouds like CapitalOne, Goldman Sachs, Walmart. This is in deference to Moschella's observation around The Matrix and the industry structural changes that are going on. This goes back to every company, being a software company and rather than pattern match an outdated SaaS model, we see new industry structures emerging where software and data, and tools, specific to an industry will lead the next wave of innovation and bring in new value that traditional technology companies aren't going to solve, and the hyperscalers aren't going to solve. You know, we've talked a lot about Snowflake's data cloud as an example of supercloud. After being at Snowflake Summit, we're more convinced than ever that they're headed in this direction. VMware is clearly going after cross-cloud services you know, perhaps creating a new category. Basically, every large company we see either pursuing supercloud initiatives or thinking about it. Dell showed project Alpine at Dell Tech World, that's a supercloud. Snowflake introducing a new application development capability based on their superPaaS, our term of course, they don't use the phrase. Mongo, Couchbase, Nutanix, Pure Storage, Veeam, CrowdStrike, Okta, Zscaler. Yeah, all of those guys. Yes, Cisco and HPE. Even though on theCUBE at HPE Discover, Fidelma Russo said on theCUBE, she wasn't a fan of cloaking mechanisms, but then we talked to HPE's Head of Storage Services, Omer Asad is clearly headed in the direction that we would consider supercloud. Again, those cross-cloud services, of course, their emphasis is connecting as well on-prem. That single experience, which traditionally has not existed with multi-cloud or hybrid. And we're seeing the emergence of companies, smaller companies like Aviatrix and Starburst, and Clumio and others that are building versions of superclouds that solve for a specific problem for their customers. Even ISVs like Adobe, ADP, we've talked to UiPath. They seem to be looking at new ways to go beyond the SaaS model and add value within their cloud ecosystem specifically, around data as part of their and their customers digital transformations. So yeah, pretty much every tech vendor with any size or momentum and new industry players are coming out of hiding, and competing. Building superclouds that look a lot like Moschella's Matrix, with machine intelligence and blockchains, and virtual realities, and gaming, all enabled by the internet and hyperscale cloud CAPEX. So it's moving fast and it's the future in our opinion. So don't get too caught up in the past or you'll be left behind. Okay, what about examples? We've given a number in the past, but let's try to be a little bit more specific. Here are a few we've selected and we're going to answer the two questions in one section here. What workloads and services will run in superclouds and what are some examples? Let's start with analytics. Our favorite example is Snowflake, it's one of the furthest along with its data cloud, in our view. It's a supercloud optimized for data sharing and governance, query performance, and security, and ecosystem enablement. When you do things inside of that data cloud, what we call a super data cloud. Again, our term, not theirs. You can do things that you could not do in a single cloud. You can't do this with Redshift, You can't do this with SQL server and they're bringing new data types now with merging analytics or at least accommodate analytics and transaction type data, and bringing open source tooling with things like Apache Iceberg. And so it ticks the boxes we laid out earlier. I would say that a company like Databricks is also in that mix doing it, coming at it from a data science perspective, trying to create that consistent experience for data scientists and data engineering across clouds. Converge databases, running transaction and analytic workloads is another example. Take a look at what Couchbase is doing with Capella and how it's enabling stretching the cloud to the edge with ARM-based platforms and optimizing for low latency across clouds, and even out to the edge. Document database workloads, look at MongoDB, a very developer-friendly platform that with the Atlas is moving toward a supercloud model running document databases very, very efficiently. How about general purpose workloads? This is where VMware comes into to play. Very clearly, there's a need to create a common operating environment across clouds and on-prem, and out to the edge. And I say VMware is hard at work on that. Managing and moving workloads, and balancing workloads, and being able to recover very quickly across clouds for everyday applications. Network routing, take a look at what Aviatrix is doing across clouds, industry workloads. We see CapitalOne, it announced its cost optimization platform for Snowflake, piggybacking on Snowflake supercloud or super data cloud. And in our view, it's very clearly going to go after other markets is going to test it out with Snowflake, running, optimizing on AWS and it's going to expand to other clouds as Snowflake's business and those other clouds grows. Walmart working with Microsoft to create an on-premed Azure experience that's seamless. Yes, that counts, on-prem counts. If you can create that seamless and continuous experience, identical experience from on-prem to a hyperscale cloud, we would include that as a supercloud. You know, we've written about what Goldman is doing. Again, connecting its on-prem data and software tooling, and other capabilities to AWS for scale. And we can bet dollars to donuts that Oracle will be building a supercloud in healthcare with its Cerner acquisition. Supercloud is everywhere you look. So I'm sorry, naysayers it's happening all around us. So what's next? Well, with all the industry buzz and debate about the future, John Furrier and I, have decided to host an event in Palo Alto, we're motivated and inspired to further this conversation. And we welcome all points of view, positive, negative, multi-cloud, supercloud, hypercloud, all welcome. So theCUBE on Supercloud is coming on August 9th, out of our Palo Alto studios, we'll be running a live program on the topic. We've reached out to a number of industry participants, VMware, Snowflake, Confluent, Sky High Security, Gee Rittenhouse's new company, HashiCorp, CloudFlare. We've hit up Red Hat and we expect many of these folks will be in our studios on August 9th. And we've invited a number of industry participants as well that we're excited to have on. From industry, from financial services, from healthcare, from retail, we're inviting analysts, thought leaders, investors. We're going to have more detail in the coming weeks, but for now, if you're interested, please reach out to me or John with how you think you can advance the discussion and we'll see if we can fit you in. So mark your calendars, stay tuned for more information. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks to Alex Myerson who handles production and manages the podcast for Breaking Analysis. And I want to thank Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight, they help get the word out on social and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at SiliconANGLE, who does a lot of editing and appreciate you posting on SiliconANGLE, Rob. Thanks to all of you. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you got to do is search Breaking Analysis podcast. It publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You can email me directly at david.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me @DVellante, or comment on my LinkedIn post. And please do check out ETR.ai for the best survey data. And the enterprise tech business will be at AWS NYC Summit next Tuesday, July 12th. So if you're there, please do stop by and say hello to theCUBE, it's at the Javits Center. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching. And we'll see you next time on "Breaking Analysis." (bright music)

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vallante. >> Welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. As we exited the isolation economy last year, Supercloud is a term that we introduced to describe something new that was happening in the world of cloud. In this "Breaking Analysis," we address the 10 most frequently asked questions we get around Supercloud. Okay, let's review these frequently asked questions on Supercloud that we're going to try to answer today. Look at an industry that's full of hype and buzzwords. Why the hell does anyone need a new term? Aren't hyperscalers building out Superclouds? We'll try to answer why the term Supercloud connotes something different from hyperscale clouds. And we'll talk about the problems that Superclouds solve specifically, and we'll further define the critical aspects of a Supercloud architecture. We often get asked, "Isn't this just multi-cloud?" Well, we don't think so, and we'll explain why in this "Breaking Analysis." Now, in an earlier episode, we introduced the notion of super PaaS. Well, isn't a plain vanilla PaaS already a super PaaS? Again, we don't think so, and we'll explain why. Who will actually build and who are the players currently building Superclouds? What workloads and services will run on Superclouds? And eight A or number nine, what are some examples that we can share of Supercloud? And finally, we'll answer what you can expect next from us on Supercloud. Okay, let's get started. Why do we need another buzzword? Well, late last year ahead of re:Invent, we were inspired by a post from Jerry Chen called castles in the cloud. Now, in that blog post, he introduced the idea that there were submarkets emerging in cloud that presented opportunities for investors and entrepreneurs. That the cloud wasn't going to suck the hyperscalers, weren't going to suck all the value out of the industry. And so we introduced this notion of Supercloud to describe what we saw as a value layer emerging above the hyperscalers CAPEX gift, we sometimes call it. Now, it turns out that we weren't the only ones using the term, as both Cornell and MIT, have used the phrase in somewhat similar, but different contexts. The point is, something new was happening in the AWS and other ecosystems. It was more than IS and PaaS, and wasn't just SaaS running in the cloud. It was a new architecture that integrates infrastructure, platform and software as services, to solve new problems that the cloud vendors, in our view, weren't addressing by themselves. It seemed to us that the ecosystem was pursuing opportunities across clouds that went beyond conventional implementations of multi-cloud. And we felt there was a structural change going on at the industry level. The Supercloud metaphorically was highlighting. So that's the background on why we felt a new catch phrase was warranted. Love it or hate it, it's memorable and it's what we chose. Now, to that last point about structural industry transformation. Andy Rapaport is sometimes and often credited with identifying the shift from the vertically integrated IBM mainframe era to the fragmented PC microprocesor based era in his HBR article in 1991. In fact, it was David Moschella, who at the time was an IDC analyst who first introduced the concept in 1987, four years before Rapaport's article was published. Moschella saw that it was clear that Intel, Microsoft, Seagate and others would replace the system vendors and put that forth in a graphic that looked similar to the first two on this chart. We don't have to review the shift from IBM as the center of the industry to Wintel. That's well understood. What isn't as well known or accepted is what Moschella put out in his 2018 book called "Seeing Digital" which introduced the idea of the matrix that's shown on the right hand side of this chart. Moschella posited that new services were emerging, built on top of the internet and hyperscale clouds that would integrate other innovations and would define the next era of computing. He used the term matrix, because the conceptual depiction included, not only horizontal technology rows, like the cloud and the internet, but for the first time included connected industry verticals, the columns in this chart. Moschella pointed out that, whereas historically, industry verticals had a closed value chain or stack and ecosystem of R&D and production and manufacturing and distribution. And if you were in that industry, the expertise within that vertical generally stayed within that vertical and was critical to success. But because of digital and data, for the first time, companies were able to traverse industries jump across industries and compete because data enabled them to do that. Examples, Amazon and content, payments, groceries, Apple and payments, and content and so forth. There are many examples. Data was now this unifying enabler and this marked a change in the structure of the technology landscape. And Supercloud is meant to imply more than running in hyperscale clouds. Rather, it's the combination of multiple technologies, enabled by cloud scale with new industry participants from those verticals; financial services, and healthcare, and manufacturing, energy, media, and virtually all and any industry. Kind of an extension of every company is a software company. Basically, every company now has the opportunity to build their own cloud or Supercloud. And we'll come back to that. Let's first address what's different about Superclouds relative to hyperscale clouds. Now, this one's pretty straightforward and obvious, I think. Hyperscale clouds, they're walled gardens where they want your data in their cloud and they want to keep you there. Sure, every cloud player realizes that not all data will go to their particular cloud. So they're meeting customers where their data lives with initiatives like Amazon Outposts and Azure Arc and Google Antos. But at the end of the day, the more homogeneous they can make their environments, the better control, security, costs, and performance they can deliver. The more complex the environment, the more difficult it is to deliver on their brand promises. And, of course, the less margin that's left for them to capture. Will the hyperscalers get more serious about cross cloud services? Maybe, but they have plenty of work to do within their own clouds and within enabling their own ecosystems. They have a long way to go, a lot of runway. So let's talk about specifically, what problems Superclouds solve. We've all seen the stats from IDC or Gartner or whomever, that customers on average use more than one cloud, two clouds, three clouds, five clouds, 20 clouds. And we know these clouds operate in disconnected silos for the most part. And that's a problem, because each cloud requires different skills, because the development environment is different as is the operating environment. They have different APIs, different primitives, and different management tools that are optimized for each respective hyperscale cloud. Their functions and value props don't extend to their competitors' clouds for the most part. Why would they? As a result, there's friction when moving between different clouds. It's hard to share data. It's hard to move work. It's hard to secure and govern data. It's hard to enforce organizational edicts and policies across these clouds and on-prem. Supercloud is an architecture designed to create a single environment that enables management of workloads and data across clouds in an effort to take out complexity, accelerate application development, streamline operations, and share data safely, irrespective of location. It's pretty straightforward, but non-trivial, which is why I always ask a company's CEO and executives if stock buybacks and dividends will yield as much return as building out Superclouds that solve really specific and hard problems and create differential value. Okay, let's dig a bit more into the architectural aspects of Supercloud. In other words, what are the salient attributes of Supercloud? So, first and foremost, a Supercloud runs a set of specific services designed to solve a unique problem, and it can do so in more than one cloud. Superclouds leverage the underlying cloud native tooling of a hyperscale cloud, but they're optimized for a specific objective that aligns with the problem that they're trying to solve. For example, Supercloud might be optimized for lowest cost or lowest latency or sharing data or governing or securing that data or higher performance for networking, for example. But the point is, the collection of services that is being delivered is focused on a unique value proposition that is not being delivered by the hyperscalers across clouds. A Supercloud abstracts the underlying and siloed primitives of the native PaaS layer from the hyperscale cloud, and then using its own specific platform as a service tooling, creates a common experience across clouds for developers and users. And it does so in the most efficient manner, meaning it has the metadata knowledge and management capabilities that can optimize for latency, bandwidth, or recovery or data sovereignty, or whatever unique value that Supercloud is delivering for the specific use case in their domain. And a Supercloud comprises a super PaaS capability that allows ecosystem partners through APIs to add incremental value on top of the Supercloud platform to fill gaps, accelerate features, and of course, innovate. The services can be infrastructure related, they could be application services, they could be data services, security services, user services, et cetera, designed and packaged to bring unique value to customers. Again, that hyperscalers are not delivering across clouds or on premises. Okay, so another common question we get is, "Isn't that just multi-cloud?" And what we'd say to that is yeah, "Yes, but no." You can call it multi-cloud 2.0, if you want. If you want to use, it's kind of a commonly used rubric. But as Dell's Chuck Whitten proclaimed at Dell Technologies World this year, multi-cloud, by design, is different than multi-cloud by default. Meaning, to date, multi-cloud has largely been a symptom of what we've called multi-vendor or of M&A. You buy a company and they happen to use Google cloud. And so you bring it in. And when you look at most so-called multi-cloud implementations, you see things like an on-prem stack, which is wrapped in a container and hosted on a specific cloud. Or increasingly, a technology vendor has done the work of building a cloud native version of their stack and running it on a specific cloud. But historically, it's been a unique experience within each cloud, with virtually no connection between the cloud silos. Supercloud sets out to build incremental value across clouds and above hyperscale CAPEX that goes beyond cloud compatibility within each cloud. So, if you want to call it multi-cloud 2.0, that's fine, but we chose to call it Supercloud. Okay, so at this point you may be asking, "Well isn't PaaS already a version of Supercloud?" And again, we would say, "No." That Supercloud and its corresponding super PaaS layer, which is a prerequisite, gives the freedom to store, process, and manage and secure and connect islands of data across a continuum with a common experience across clouds. And the services offered are specific to that Supercloud and will vary by each offering. OpenShift, for example, can be used to construct a super PaaS, but in and of itself, isn't a super PaaS, it's generic. A super PaaS might be developed to support, for instance, ultra low latency database work. It would unlikely, again, taking the OpenShift example, it's unlikely that off the shelf OpenShift would be used to develop such a low latency, super PaaS layer for ultra low latency database work. The point is, Supercloud and its inherent super PaaS will be optimized to solve specific problems like that low latency example for distributed databases or fast backup in recovery for data protection and ransomware, or data sharing or data governance. Highly specific use cases that the Supercloud is designed to solve for. Okay, another question we often get is, "Who has a Supercloud today and who's building a Supercloud and who are the contenders?" Well, most companies that consider themselves cloud players will, we believe, be building or are building Superclouds. Here's a common ETR graphic that we like to show with net score or spending momentum on the Y axis, and overlap or pervasiveness in the ETR surveys on the X axis. And we've randomly chosen a number of players that we think are in the Supercloud mix. And we've included the hyperscalers because they are enablers. Now, remember, this is a spectrum of maturity. It's a maturity model. And we've added some of those industry players that we see building Superclouds like Capital One, Goldman Sachs, Walmart. This is in deference to Moschella's observation around the matrix and the industry structural changes that are going on. This goes back to every company being a software company. And rather than pattern match and outdated SaaS model, we see new industry structures emerging where software and data and tools specific to an industry will lead the next wave of innovation and bring in new value that traditional technology companies aren't going to solve. And the hyperscalers aren't going to solve. We've talked a lot about Snowflake's data cloud as an example of Supercloud. After being at Snowflake Summit, we're more convinced than ever that they're headed in this direction. VMware is clearly going after cross cloud services, perhaps creating a new category. Basically, every large company we see either pursuing Supercloud initiatives or thinking about it. Dell showed Project Alpine at Dell Tech World. That's a Supercloud. Snowflake introducing a new application development capability based on their super PaaS, our term, of course. They don't use the phrase. Mongo, Couchbase, Nutanix, Pure Storage, Veeam, CrowdStrike, Okta, Zscaler. Yeah, all of those guys. Yes, Cisco and HPE. Even though on theCUBE at HPE Discover, Fidelma Russo said on theCUBE, she wasn't a fan of cloaking mechanisms. (Dave laughing) But then we talked to HPE's head of storage services, Omer Asad, and he's clearly headed in the direction that we would consider Supercloud. Again, those cross cloud services, of course, their emphasis is connecting as well on-prem. That single experience, which traditionally has not existed with multi-cloud or hybrid. And we're seeing the emergence of smaller companies like Aviatrix and Starburst and Clumio and others that are building versions of Superclouds that solve for a specific problem for their customers. Even ISVs like Adobe, ADP, we've talked to UiPath. They seem to be looking at new ways to go beyond the SaaS model and add value within their cloud ecosystem, specifically around data as part of their and their customer's digital transformations. So yeah, pretty much every tech vendor with any size or momentum, and new industry players are coming out of hiding and competing, building Superclouds that look a lot like Moschella's matrix, with machine intelligence and blockchains and virtual realities and gaming, all enabled by the internet and hyperscale cloud CAPEX. So it's moving fast and it's the future in our opinion. So don't get too caught up in the past or you'll be left behind. Okay, what about examples? We've given a number in the past but let's try to be a little bit more specific. Here are a few we've selected and we're going to answer the two questions in one section here. What workloads and services will run in Superclouds and what are some examples? Let's start with analytics. Our favorite example of Snowflake. It's one of the furthest along with its data cloud, in our view. It's a Supercloud optimized for data sharing and governance, and query performance, and security, and ecosystem enablement. When you do things inside of that data cloud, what we call a super data cloud. Again, our term, not theirs. You can do things that you could not do in a single cloud. You can't do this with Redshift. You can't do this with SQL server. And they're bringing new data types now with merging analytics or at least accommodate analytics and transaction type data and bringing open source tooling with things like Apache Iceberg. And so, it ticks the boxes we laid out earlier. I would say that a company like Databricks is also in that mix, doing it, coming at it from a data science perspective trying to create that consistent experience for data scientists and data engineering across clouds. Converge databases, running transaction and analytic workloads is another example. Take a look at what Couchbase is doing with Capella and how it's enabling stretching the cloud to the edge with arm based platforms and optimizing for low latency across clouds, and even out to the edge. Document database workloads, look at Mongo DB. A very developer friendly platform that where the Atlas is moving toward a Supercloud model, running document databases very, very efficiently. How about general purpose workloads? This is where VMware comes into play. Very clearly, there's a need to create a common operating environment across clouds and on-prem and out to the edge. And I say, VMware is hard at work on that, managing and moving workloads and balancing workloads, and being able to recover very quickly across clouds for everyday applications. Network routing, take a look at what Aviatrix is doing across clouds. Industry workloads, we see Capital One. It announced its cost optimization platform for Snowflake, piggybacking on Snowflake's Supercloud or super data cloud. And in our view, it's very clearly going to go after other markets. It's going to test it out with Snowflake, optimizing on AWS, and it's going to expand to other clouds as Snowflake's business and those other clouds grows. Walmart working with Microsoft to create an on-premed Azure experience that's seamless. Yes, that counts, on-prem counts. If you can create that seamless and continuous experience, identical experience from on-prem to a hyperscale cloud, we would include that as a Supercloud. We've written about what Goldman is doing. Again, connecting its on-prem data and software tooling, and other capabilities to AWS for scale. And you can bet dollars to donuts that Oracle will be building a Supercloud in healthcare with its Cerner acquisition. Supercloud is everywhere you look. So I'm sorry, naysayers, it's happening all around us. So what's next? Well, with all the industry buzz and debate about the future, John Furrier and I have decided to host an event in Palo Alto. We're motivated and inspired to further this conversation. And we welcome all points of view, positive, negative, multi-cloud, Supercloud, HyperCloud, all welcome. So theCUBE on Supercloud is coming on August 9th out of our Palo Alto studios. We'll be running a live program on the topic. We've reached out to a number of industry participants; VMware, Snowflake, Confluent, Skyhigh Security, G. Written House's new company, HashiCorp, CloudFlare. We've hit up Red Hat and we expect many of these folks will be in our studios on August 9th. And we've invited a number of industry participants as well that we're excited to have on. From industry, from financial services, from healthcare, from retail, we're inviting analysts, thought leaders, investors. We're going to have more detail in the coming weeks, but for now, if you're interested, please reach out to me or John with how you think you can advance the discussion, and we'll see if we can fit you in. So mark your calendars, stay tuned for more information. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks to Alex Myerson who handles production and manages the podcast for "Breaking Analysis." And I want to thank Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight. They help get the word out on social and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at SiliconANGLE, who does a lot of editing and appreciate you posting on SiliconANGLE, Rob. Thanks to all of you. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you got to do is search, breaking analysis podcast. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. Or you can email me directly at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. Or DM me @DVallante, or comment on my LinkedIn post. And please, do check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. We'll be at AWS NYC summit next Tuesday, July 12th. So if you're there, please do stop by and say hello to theCUBE. It's at the Javits Center. This is Dave Vallante for theCUBE Insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching. And we'll see you next time on "Breaking Analysis." (slow music)

>> "theCube" presents Dell Technologies World, brought to you by Dell. >> Hey everyone, Welcome back to "theCube's" continuing coverage of Dell Technologies World 2022. Live from the show floor in Las Vegas. We have been here since Monday evening. About seven to 8,000 folks here. It's been a fantastically well-attended event that Dell has done. Lots of talk about announcements, including APEX. Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante are going to unpack more of APEX with our next two Cube alumni who are returning, Akanksha Mehrotra, VP of APEX product marketing joins us, and Chad Dunn, VP of product management APEX. Guys, welcome back. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for having us. >> It is really great to be back. >> So just in case there's anybody out there that's been under a rock since Monday, APEX has now been what GA for a year, celebrating a momentous year and some big news. Akanksha, walk us through that and then talk about some of the feedback that you've gotten on what you guys announced just two days ago. >> Yeah. So it's been an exciting week like you said. APEX just for sort of background is our portfolio of as-a-service solutions, we introduced it a year ago. We have now 10 plus services in our portfolio. We added our very first full stack managed service for cyber recovery this week. The feedback from customers over the past year and then the conversations we've had, you know, over the course of this week has been phenomenal. If I had to really summarize it, I would say the pain point that we're looking to solve, helping organizations manage data across disparate and fragmented environments across a variety of clouds, you know, on-premises, in a co-lo, on the far edge, at a hyperscale or in the telco edge is resonating. This is a pain point... This is very real pain point for them. And our goal in our vision to create a consistent and a secure experience across all of these different, you know, silos of data, if you will. It's something that they really want more of from us. >> Chad, talk a little bit about the influence of the customer in the last couple of years. Well, in the last year, in terms of releasing the cyber recovery solution on APEX, we have seen the threat landscape massively change. >> It increases every day. >> It increases every day, ransomware is no longer a... Is it going to happen too? It's a matter of when? >> Yes. >> Talk to us about the influence of the customer of this being the first full stack solution on APEX. >> Sure, like I don't think there's a boardroom in the world where this isn't being discussed as just such a high risk environment for cyber techs. It's damaging to lose your data. It's damaging to your reputation, it's financially damaging. So it's incredibly important into our customers. And we're finding that, you know, many of them don't necessarily have all the expertise to be able to defend against it themselves. And so that's where an as-a-service solution, like the one that we're offering really makes sense to them, right? They're much more apt to consume as-a-service when the competency doesn't necessarily already exist in their IT organizations. So we've been doing this for a few years as a solution with managed services. And in fact, we've deployed over 2000 of these, and making that a standardized offering with T-shirt sizing, subscription basis, really seems to be a winner. And every customer I've talked to has been absolutely over the moon with it. >> All right, so we have Chad in product management, Akanksha, you're in product marketing. So you knew going into this, that it was going to be different. So I'm interested in kind of what your learnings were, that internal transformation, which is ongoing now, I understand that, but how did it change how you manage, you know, deploy the life cycle of the product and communicate that. >> I'll get us started and I'm sure Chad will add on. So, you know, to your point, when we started this journey internally before we started it externally, we knew this was going to be a multi-year transformation for us. And a multi-year transformation that affects every part of the company, how we build products, how we market products, how we bring them to market, how we sell them, et cetera. And so we made a very conscious effort to kind of secure that buy-in early on. And it starts Michael on down. This is a strategic priority for him as I'm sure both of you know. And each function has kind of established, you know, areas where they know they need to transform and a north star goal for where they want to get to. So I'll speak for marketing as a place that's, you know, close to my heart. One, we know as we get into this space, we're going to be talking to different types of folks and having conversations with different types of personas within an account than we have had before. Using cyber recovery solution as an example, yes, we want to talk to, you know, IT administrators and CIO who we've been talking to. But as Chad said, this is something that CISOs care about. This is something that security teams care about. That those are a different set of personas for us to market to, to communicate with, whose pain points we need to understand better. So that's an example of a change. Another one is moving from a... I mean, events like this are great, and we certainly love to be back in person, but in as-a-service model, you want to have much more frequent communication with your intended audiences. So we've moved to more of an always on-marketing motion leveraging our blog, leveraging other vehicles. And that's that has also been a transformation for us. >> On the marketing side, I'm curious, sorry, Dave. Chad, you brought up one of the big things that is a huge challenge for any organization and any industry with respect to the cybersecurity in that threat landscape is brand reputation. >> Yeah. >> Are you having more conversations at the CMO level? I'm just curious if they're involved in this. We got to make sure that we don't have... We're not the next one on the news because customers will churn like crazy. Is that at all part of the conversation than persona change? >> It is certainly part of it. But, you know, we don't want to be motivated by fear, right? We want to be motivated by preparation and securing the business and growing the business. So, you know, it is a sea level discussion to, you know, understand how we need to protect our critical data. But it's really from a lens of, you know, how do we grow and we grow more quickly? And you know, if you look at APEX overall, yes, we've made a lot of internal changes to get where we are and we're going to continue to make those. And I'll talk through some examples. But this is also a journey for our customers, right? The change to, you know, consuming by the drip, consuming APEX, consuming as-a-service, you could take two companies with identical size and an identical vertical, and they're going to have different priorities about how they want to consume this infrastructure and these services. So we're on that journey with them just as we have to transform ourselves internally, from the way that we do accounting, from the way that we do sales compensation, from the way that we actually build product. And in fact, we just changed up the model by which we're, you know, developing product in APEX today. So I'm about 90 days into my role in APEX. I came from the HCI business. And I'm here with my engineering leader who was also in the HCI business. So we were able to be fortunate enough to work in an organization that went from zero to 4 billion in pretty quickly. So, Hey, let's see if we can apply some of that learning to this. But it's an incredible partnership inside of Dell with people like Dell Digital and our transformation office. Because we've done things roughly the same way for about 30 years. And this is all very new to us. So it's pretty amazing journey. >> I'm interested in what's different. You weren't first to market. The public cloud guys might say, "Eh, it's not cloud." >> No. >> Okay, so how are you different than public cloud and how are you different from your traditional on-prem competitors? >> Again, I'll get us started and chime in. I would say... I'll take your first example. I want to go back to kind of what our customers... Where they want help from us and what are they're asking us for. As I said, the debate is over. They have told us pretty definitively, and our data and your data shows it, that they will and the data will continue to grow in all these different fragmented silos. What they want is an experience that orchestrated across all of these different environments, by a vendor that they trust, right? And that's what we are committed to delivering to them. That's our north star, that's where we're going. I would argue that any one of the hyperscalers don't have incentives to kind of make that same experience happen across all those different environments. A vendor like Dell, who has been trusted by many years... You know, for many years from our customer, who doesn't have a single dog in the race, but is looking to partner with folks across the entire ecosystem, is looking to innovate with our software, our services, and our infrastructure is best positioned to help them orchestrate across. >> Yeah. Well, you know, if you're wondering what's different, you really have to look at what the value proposition is for public clouds versus keeping data on-prem or keeping it in a place where it's accessible to multiple clouds. You know, I think if you haven't been under a rock here at the show, you know it is all about multi-cloud, and you know that we're, you know, absolutely embracing it from, you know, Project Alpine where we're putting storage endpoints in public cloud, to what we're doing with APEX and our data storage services and the move of our customers into co-locations where the data can be accessible to multiple clouds. I think that getting the commerce capabilities in place that we've done over the course of the last year is a great first step. But look for us to double down on the day two management and operations, using that platform that we've created for APEX. And that's going to allow us to create more velocity and bring more solutions into the fold more quickly, and then provide more day two management optimization operation of the solutions by our customers. >> Okay. Sorry. So definitely agree with the public cloud. And I got to trust them to do my multi-cloud or what I call super-cloud. What about your traditional competitors? Is it the normal sort of what we'd expect for the Dell differentiators portfolio, supply chain, et cetera, or are there APEX specific differentiators? >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so there are absolutely the Dell differentiators of the breadth of our sales force through both our direct sales teams as well as our partners, our secure supply chain, our services team, and the expertise that they've built, which we're obviously bringing to bear with this market and this offer. Those are kind of the Dell wide advantages that we bring to bear with this. But specifically for APEX against the traditional on-prem competitors, I would say the simplicity with which we are bringing our offers to market is a differentiator for us. And it's one that our customers in the past year have retreated back to us. So the commerce experience that Chad was just talking about, we have made very conscious efforts to simplify and abstract the way that complexity from our customers, so that they are picking very easy to understand outcomes that they care about. And then not really worry about the peace parts, whether it's the hardware, the software, or the services that help make that service level outcome happen. I would argue, you know, some of the other competitors, traditional competitors that we have haven't done that. And it's more of a... You know, that complexity is still there. And what we hear from our customers is, I want the simplicity and agility that public cloud provides. That's something that hyperscalers did get right. And we're bringing that experience to our infrastructure. >> Yeah. Like I think the other way that we'll differentiate ourselves is going to be by the breadth of the solutions, right? So we've got a tremendous amount of IP in solutions like cyber recovery, right? This wasn't a new thing for us. This is something we've been doing for a few years as there's tremendous consulting capabilities, services capabilities, the underlying products of course. Well, there's a pipeline of solutions lined up behind that. So as we move into high performance computer as-a-service, MLOps as-a-service, we can draw on those solutions that we've offered, but in a very custom way in the past now at a high velocity manner in the console. >> Well, the high velocity these days is critical. As we've seen the last two years, things have changed so dramatically for customers in every industry that needed to pivot with speed and accelerate their transformation. >> And the transparency. Right? So going back to his example, having that price transparency. You can go to our website and look at the pricing, pick in the two or three very simple options and see it right there and order it through the console. In a matter of minutes versus, you know, wait for two weeks to get the code and then wait for a month to get the hardware, and then wait for the services team to show up. So what we are hearing... I mean, we have truly been able to take deployments that used to take several months to a matter of days. And so that's how the simplicity kind of, you know, pays off not only in that initial deployment, but over the course of the subscription, the day two operations that Chad was just talking about and the innovation and the work that we're doing to simplify their lives in that process, allow them to focus in other areas. >> Oh, absolutely. That time to value, time to market has never been more critical. And the ability, to your point, Akanksha, to allow folks to be able to focus more on the strategic initiatives that will actually help move the business for... Add value, move the business forward and allow it to be competitive and differentiate itself is critical for everybody in every industry. Chad, I wanted to kind of pivot on multi-cloud for a second. You talked about that. And we had Chuck Whit on yesterday. He was talking about, you know, multi-cloud. A lot of organizations, many, many, many in multi-cloud by default. But what Dell wants to do is change that, multi-cloud by design. Is APEX going to be a facilitator of multi-cloud by design? Talk to us about that for customers. >> We absolutely will be. So if you look at what made customers multi-cloud by default, it's them going for the services that exist in the cloud and looking for best of breed services. Whether it's machine learning, speech recognition, database, they're going to those best of breed players. And so the value proposition for us is since you're in those clouds, you want access to your data and you want it centrally, so you can see it, leverage it, use it from any of those clouds, but you may have other reasons for keeping your data or even your compute on-prem or in a co-location. It could be data sovereignty, it could be policy compliance, it could be data gravity. So we want to make the concept of having your workloads or your data anywhere, very seamless for our customers, right? So it's really embracing the concept of multi-cloud and making it easier. >> The cyber recovery solution is really interesting to me. I was talking to one of the partners here and they said, "Dave, this was a really good show for us." And they probably had a quasi competitive solution. I don't really know. But like a lot of customers and, you know, got a lot of leads out of it. So it's the hot topic and that's what they said. This is cyber, everybody wants cyber. So how did that solution come together? Because I know you... You really... You've always been security conscious. But I never really full cracked the security solution. And now here it is in APEX, it's like, boom, out of the box or out of the service. How'd that come about? >> It really started back in 2014, specifically. It's funny when you can point to an event where, you know, something started like this. So there was a fairly high profile ransomware attack in 2014. And that caused us to look at the assets that we had from our data protection portfolio, from a software and storage perspective and say, "Hey, we can put something together that can really address this, right? Through novel use of existing technology." So we built out reference architectures. We built out the consulting service on how you protect your data. We partnered and built software to be able to secure the data in an air gaped imutable vault and offer the services to be able to manage that, monitor that, restore the data when needed. So we did that in a very custom way for years. In fact, as I said, over 2,000 systems deployed this way. So having a vehicle like APEX that has the as-a-service capability built in, the subscription capability built in, the ease and velocity of purchasing and operating was really a natural fit. So you know, we expect this is going to be a very high volume solution for us. >> Great. Awesome. >> Akanksha, can you talk a little bit about the partner ecosystem involved here in APEX? You know, when I think about ransomware in data protection, I think organizations need to be able to protect apps, users, data platforms. But we think of how data is so spread out, customers want that single pane of glass to be able to manage all that and know that that data is protected. Talk to us about how you're working with partners. I know the partner ecosystem at Dell's huge. How are you working with partners and how can they build upon APEX? >> Yeah So our partners are a very important part of our ecosystem. They help expand our reach. They also help complement our capabilities. You know, for example, in specific verticals. They may have services or expertise in a particular area. For the APEX portfolio, we actually offer a wide variety of ways for partners to engage with us. Starting out, they could refer our solutions and refer, you know, some of our services, if they want to take more of an advisory role in some capacity. They could resell our services with additional services included. In this scenario, for example, they would leverage our console, include some of their services in there and then offer it to their end customers. They could host APEX offers in their own data center or in a co-lo data center and build their practice on top of it. A lot of our partners and customers, we've got kind of joint customer partners that for example, have built a healthcare practice on top of an APEX solution, where they've added their services or built their business on top of it. And then finally, there's of course, technology and ISV partners, right? And that is where we might leverage, you know, some of their technology, built it to be part of a service or a solution that we're doing and join the go-to market. So I think the answer is lots of ways for partners to engage with APEX. And we absolutely are engaging with them in a wide variety of ways. And I think cyber recovery is no different. >> Well, there must be not a dull moment with what you guys have going on with APEX. Thank you for taking some time to talk to us about that. Sounds like the momentous year that you've had is going to continue. And it sounds like you've gotten great feedback from the customers and the partner so far. Thank you for joining "theCube" and telling us what's going on. And we can't wait to hear more next year. I'm sure there will be lots more next year. >> Yes indeed. >> Absolutely. Thank you very much. >> For our guests and Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching "theCube's" coverage of Dell Technologies World 2022, live from Las Vegas. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest. (upbeat music)

>> TheCUBE presents Dell Technologies World, brought to you by Dell. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage day three. From the show floor of Dell Technologies World 2022. We've been here with about seven to 8,000 people. It's been outstanding since Monday night, Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante, and we have two of the ladies from Dell digital with us, excited to welcome Jaynene Hapanowicz and Betsy Davis, leaders in Dell digital, which is Dell's IT organization. Ladies, thanks for joining Dave and me. >> Thanks for having us. Great to be here. >> Jaynene, let's start with you. We've heard a lot this week about the need for IT leaders to think very meaningfully on how to leave a lasting legacy. How in today's dynamic environment do IT leaders do that? >> Yeah. Well look, let's start with IT leaders have a pretty tough job. You're trying to stabilize an environment. You're trying to take care of anomalies, security incidents. Like that's the blocking and tackling, except you also have to transform your organization at the same time. And I think it's really important that you build a strategy that enables you to do both those things. So you have to do, you have to do the blocking and tackling or you don't get a seat at the table, but the other things that you have to prioritize are things like building the business relationships, putting your customer at the center of what you do, and building great teams that trust you and you trust them to develop capabilities that you need for the future. And your strategy has to support both of those things. >> We've heard a lot about trust this week, specifically from Mr. Dell himself, Betsy you've spoken in the past about the need for IT and the business to collaborate. There has to be trust there. How do you advise folks to accomplish that true collaboration? >> Yeah, it's look, trust is so important and it's funny because last time we were here live at a CUBE session, we were talking about the product model, which is how we do things in Dell Digital now. And it's all focused on jointly with the business, agreeing on human-centered outcomes, starting small, iterating and together you deliver extraordinary things. And so over the last few years, building collaboration through that product model has done tremendous things. I would say what we're learning more about more recently is how to extend that. Especially when you're taking multiple legacy regional tools and globalizing them, how do you extend it to policies and processes? But what we're finding that's interesting is, the same principles apply, agree on outcomes. What are you going for? And then work through it together. You don't assign it to one side or the other. It's truly a collaboration exercise. >> You know, I want to comment. So Dell has a culture, obviously. Founder led company, chairman's name is on the name of the company, Say:Do ratio, trust, et cetera. It seems like Dell Digital has its own little culture going on. And the reason I say that is, when Jen felt was up on stage yesterday, I heard a lot of yelling, screaming, hooping, people were standing up. That didn't seem like a typical IT department thing. You know, that was pretty cool. So what's the Dell Digital culture like, is it just an extension? Is it? What's it like? >> Yeah, yeah. Well, I think our leader who we admire very much, which you saw yesterday has built a great leadership team and a culture that her leaders trust each other and that cascades down. And I think our employees, like all of our folks, they love working in Dell Digital, and they love working at Dell digital because we empower them to do their jobs. We let them work where they need to work, and we have, I think, great leadership at every level to really help people propel the company forward. We have a single mission and that mission is to make Dell better. >> I like the, thank you for that. I like the way Betsy, you were talking about the, I called the product mindset. >> Yep. >> As opposed to commonly in IT, there's a project mindset. Ah, I got another project to do. >> Yeah. >> Explain the difference. >> So a project is, some people might say waterfall, it's a very old school way of doing things where you say, okay, business give me requirements. They take six months, They come up with a list of requirements. Your IT team goes off and deliver in those requirements. And two years later you come back together and go, oh, that's not what we were looking for, and it's delayed by now. So product model is really focused on, hey, let's do short sprints. Let's agree the outcome, let's attempt to deliver it, but if we deliver it and then find out, oh, that's actually not what we were looking for, then you just iterate and you haven't wasted two and a half years. And it's also quite frankly, as a leader, it's a lot more fun to lead teams in that environment, because you're constantly getting wins and they're getting that constant reinforcement of look at the impact you're making for the business. Which is a great motivator for all of us at Dell Digital. >> Quick follow up if I may, is the enabler there a mindset or is it technology? Why are you able to do that? >> It's both. So part of what makes that possible, is our modern environment. Jaynene has done an incredible job, really building a modern toolkit for our developers that makes it easier to collaborate and move quickly and iterate. But so much of it is that product model mindset of, okay, what outcomes are we delivering? What's the smallest unit of work we can break that into and let's just go and iterate. >> And you put the user in the center, like it's so much easier to develop what a customer needs, if the customer is at the center of what you're trying to do, and you iterate from there. That wasn't the way that it has historically worked. >> So how do you advise it leaders to become transformational like this rather than traditional? Because I imagine those traditional ones, those businesses may not survive the changing times that we're living in, but being transformational that's a challenging mindset, especially for organizations that are legacy or history, have been there a while. Can you advise? >> I mean, you have to fire on all cylinders, that old people process and technology is actually still true. Building a great culture and building a culture of trust, super important, but you got to pull your folks along with you on a journey. You have to have leadership that buys into doing both transformation and running the business. You have to, your technology has to support what you're trying to do. You can't expect great outcomes from things that are 20 years old, You're not going to get it. And your processes, they have to be adjusted to reflect a cloud operating model. A lot of companies even struggle with that, because they're using processes from a decade ago, and they need to update those policies to reflect what it is to operate like a cloud, in a cloud. And how have you guys accelerated this culture and this mindset during the last couple of years where things just went crazy overnight? What was that acceleration like? 'Cause we talked about digital transformation acceleration with your customers, but you guys have had to transform too. >> Yeah, and you know, I look at it from a leadership angle. I think these last couple years have really given us an opportunity to take what we took in the product model of human-centered experiences for our customers and business partner, and really focus on, hey, we need to be human centered leaders. So in some ways that was easier to do with Dell because we were always very flexible on where people work, when they work, et cetera. But I think we've had the opportunity these last couple years to demonstrate, hey, it really is about our people first, we set our people up for success. We help them take care of their immediate needs, whether those be personal or work and everything else works out. And I think companies that keep that in the forefront and always approach things from a human center perspective, whether that's leadership or experiences in the product model, always come out ahead. >> How are you faring in the talent war? My specific question is, if I were younger and a perspective employee, how would you recruit me in terms of how you would nurture my career? What's my future look like? What would you tell me? >> Yeah, I, well, first of all, let's start with the talent war. That, I mean, look, it's real. Our folks are getting recruited like crazy too. Except I think there is a cultural aspect that really causes folks to pause. I also think enabling people to work where they want to work or where they need to work, it's both, that has helped us in our recruitment because the advantage of people do not want to go back to the office. Like, I don't know, I'm speaking for like probably myself and everybody I talk to. I just don't think people want to go back to the office, but we're benefiting from that, because we are actually drawing in talent from companies that are sending folks back to the office. And we gave our employees remotely great tools to be able to work from home. And that has all been a win for us in terms of retaining our staff and drawing in new talent. And I think the other thing and it's a very important point that you raise, is that the future is working in modern tool sets. And one of the things that we did and Jen spoke about yesterday, was around developers want to develop and you've got to give them the tools that they need to perform their jobs as quickly as possible, because digital transformation is ultimately about creating applications that drive business value. >> I think I'm the only one that probably here that wants to go back to the office. If I do one more Zoom call from home, I might go puke. >> I go to the office, but I'm like 15 minutes away, so. >> Oh, I'm about 30 seconds away to really look at my commute. Let's talk about from that cultural perspective and the great resignation, all the things that are going on. You talked about folks getting recruited, that flexibility of meeting your, as you said Jaynene meeting the employees where they are is the same culture that Dell has about meeting its customers where they are. And that's really kind of the foundation of a lot of the announcements that we've heard over the last few days, is really that flexibility to be able to deliver what a great customer experience and a great employee experience. I think to me, they're inextricably linked. >> So I totally agree. >> So this notion of work remotely, et cetera, great. Most people, like you said right now are saying I'm not going back. And I think some kind of hybrid is probably going to be the norm. >> Agree. >> That's cool. But we have a tendency to work longer laps times from home. And so there's that even weekends, it's like everybody's always on we should never get emails on Saturday, now I'm like, I got to look, of course spend an hour or two hour, whatever it is. So how do you balance that with folks? What do you tell people in your organization? >> Yeah, I mean, we're very focused on our employees having quality of life, now we're in IT. Like, let's be real. We have always worked weekends. But I think what we're really really being very thoughtful about, is that balance for our employees that we're not creating more stress in their lives. Like we want them to have a great quality experience. A lot of that happens with the technology that we have built under the covers, because that has allowed our developers to work less weekends and has allowed our folks to release independently, which is kind of in the world of IT, that's the utopia, you want to get to let folks work independently. And that has actually freed up the time for developers to have to work as if we all work together, and now they can work independently. And that has actually helped with quality of life. So it's, it is still though a combination of all those things. It is also having leadership team that values that. And I think that's what we have. >> What's cool about this conversation. We're talking about IT, we haven't even, we haven't talked tech. Now are you guys techies? >> Yeah. >> You are? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So one of the things, I was in one of these private analyst meetings, a handful of analysts with (indistinct) and I was asking her about the cloud migration, that's a lot of CIOs top priority. It's obviously, her response essentially was, yeah, well, we are modernizing our infrastructure, That's essentially our cloud. We've got our own cloud. I wonder if you could like double click on that a little bit. 'Cause security number one for most IT organizations, cloud number two, she translated that into, way I interpret that data is modernization. I wonder if you could give us your perspective on that. >> I think the first thing as you map out, hey, what do we want our modern environment to be? And you make those technology decisions, just like with our people, we need to design optionality in and make sure that we stay as flexible and nimble as we can. The same is true for our technology environment. So that's why you see whether we're talking about what we offer to our customers or how we're modernizing our environment. We want to make sure we've got flexibility and optionality because what we do all know is we don't know what the future will bring. >> How did you guys get into tech? When did you fall in love with technology? >> How many years ago? >> No, like, like what was, was there something in your life that like appealed to you or? >> It's actually really funny story. My father was a mainframe programmer, so. >> Okay, So he was doing COBOL. >> I swear I wanted nothing to do with it. And then I found myself in those shoes. >> Yeah. Horrible. >> Yeah, horrible. >> It's in your DNA. >> I think so. I think so. >> Okay. So you just, when things started to get more modern. >> I just thought it was interesting. Like I'm almost 30 years in. Like I just thought it was really interesting. >> That's awesome. >> And I still think it is. >> How about you Betsy? >> I actually started on the business side, so I worked with IT through my 20 years at Dell. And when they started shifting to the product model, I was a business partner and I saw these incredible outcomes we were delivering to. And I'm like, oh, look at that cool technology. We were doing like optical character recognition to automate it. It was just, it was super cool. And you know, I'd known Jen for a long time and she said, well, why don't you come over to Dell Digital? And I did, it's been, it been a blast but I started as a business partner. >> But you, then you bring that understanding of the business the outcomes focused to the IT side. And that's probably why you guys make it sound like it's so simple to facilitate the IT business collaboration that so many businesses struggle with >> The magic is to make it simple. >> I agree. >> Yeah totally. >> It's not easy. >> No, it's not easy, but it's possible. >> Well, and that's what drives adoption. >> How have in our final minute or so here, how have the customers, we know what 15,000 customers globally, great customers on stage. We've had some customers on the show this week. How have they been influential in terms of the modernization of Dell Digital in especially the last two years, any interesting stories of customer influence you can share. >> In terms of our modernization efforts? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I mean, look, we share all the time with customers on best practices in IT. And I would really say we have also moved an organization and solved many of the problems, the very problems our customers are trying to address through much of what we've developed within IT. And I think customers are very interested in learning from us and helping them on their own transformation journey. >> Excellent, ladies thank you so much for joining Dave and me talking about really what's under the covers of Dell Digital, but it's really about people, process and technologies and collaboration. >> That's right. >> Great use case (indistinct). We appreciate your time. >> We appreciate it back. >> Thanks for Dave Vellante. I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCube's coverage of Dell Technologies World, live from the show floor in Las Vegas. Stick around and be right back with our next guest. (gentle music)

(upbeat music) >> I'm Dave Nicholson and welcome to Dell Technologies World 2022. I'm delighted to be joined by Tony Bishop. Tony is senior vice president, enterprise strategy at Digital Realty. Tony, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, Dave. Happy to be here. >> So Tony, tell me about your role at Digital Realty and give us a little background on Digital Realty and what you do. >> Absolutely, so my job is to figure out how to make our product and experience relevant for enterprises and partners alike. Digital Realty is probably one of the best kept secrets in the industry. It's the largest provider of multi-tenant data center capacity in the world, over 300 data centers, 50 submetros, 26 countries, six continents. So it's a substantial provider of data center infrastructure capacity to hyperscale clouds to the largest enterprise in the world and everywhere in between. >> So what's the connection with Dell? What are you guys doing with Dell? >> I think it's going to be a marriage made in heaven in terms of the partnership. You think of Dell as the largest leading provider of critical IT infrastructure for companies around the world. They bring expertise in building the most relevant performant efficient infrastructure, combine that with the largest most relevant full spectrum capability provider of data center capacity. And together you create this integrated pre-engineered kind of experience where infrastructure can be delivered on demand, secure and compliant, performant and efficient and really unlock the opportunity that's trapped in the world around data. >> So speaking of data, you have a unique view at Digital Realty because you're seeing things in aggregate, in a way that maybe a single client wouldn't be seeing them. What are some of the trends and important things we need to be aware of as we move forward from a data center, from an IT perspective, frankly. >> Yeah, it's an excellent question. The good part of the vantage point is we see emerging trends as they start to unfold 'cause you have the most unique diverse set of customers coming together and coming together, almost organized like in a community effect because you have them connecting and attaching to each other's infrastructure sharing data. And what we've seen is in explosion in data being created, data being processed, aggregated, stored, and then being enriched. And it's really around that, what we call the data creation life cycle, where what we're seeing is that data then needs to be shared across many different devices, applications, systems, companies, users, and that ends up creating this new type of workflow driven world that's very intelligent and is going to cause a radical explosion in all our eyes of needing more infrastructure and more infrastructure faster and more infrastructure as a service. >> Yeah, when you talk about data and you talk about all of these connectivity points and communication points, talk about how some of those are explained to us. Some of these are outside of your facilities and some of them are within your facilities. In this virtualized abstracted world we live in it's easy to think that everything lives in our endpoint mobile device but talk about how that gravity associated with data affects things moving forward. >> Absolutely, glad you brought up about the mobile device because I think it's probably the easiest thing to attach to, to think about how the mobile device has radically liberated and transformed end users and in versions of mobile devices, even being sensors, not just people on a mobile phone proliferating everywhere. So that proliferation of these endpoints that are accessing and coming over different networks mobile networks, wifi networks, corporate networks, all end up generating data that then needs to be brought together and processed. And what we found is that we've found a study that we've been spending multiple years and multiple millions of dollars building into an index in a tool called the Data Gravity Index where we've been able to quantify not only this data creation life cycle, but how big and how fast and how it creates a gravitational effect because as more data gets shared with more applications, it becomes very localized. And so we've now measured and predicted for 700 mentors around the world where that data gravity effect is occurring and it's affecting every industry, every enterprise, and it's going to fundamentally change how infrastructure needs to be architected because it needs to become data centric. It used to be connectivity centric but with these mobile phones and endpoints going everywhere you have to create a meeting place. And it has to be a meeting place where the data comes together and then systems and services are brought and user traffic comes in and out of. >> So in other words, despite your prowess in this space you guys have yet to solve the speed of light issue and the cost of bandwidth moving between sites. So is it fair to say that in an ideal world you could have dozens of actually different customers, separate entities that are physically living in data center locations that are built and posted and run by Digital Realty, communicating with one another. So when these services are communicating instead of communicating over a hundred miles or a thousand miles, it's like one side of the chicken wire fence to the other, not that you use chicken wire in your data center but you get the point, is that fair. >> It is, it's like the mall analogy, right? You're building these data malls and everybody's bringing their relevant infrastructure and then using private secure connections between each other and then enabling the ability for data to be exchanged, enriched and new business be conducted. So no, physics hasn't been solved, Dave, just to add to that. And what we're finding is it's not just physics. One of the other things that we're continuing to see and hear from customers and that we continue to study as a trend is regulations, compliance and security are becoming as big a factors as physics is. So it's not just physics and cost which I agree with what you're saying but there's also these other dimensions that's in effect in placement, connectivity in the management of data and infrastructure, basically, in all major metros around the world where companies do business and providers support them, or customers come to meet them both physically and digitally. It's an interesting trend, right? I think a number of the industrians call it a digital twin where there's a virtual version and of a digital version and a physical version and that's probably the best way to think of us, is that secure meeting place where each can have their own secure infrastructure of what's being digitized but actually being placed physically. >> Yeah, that's interesting. When you look at this from the Dell, Digital Realty partnership perspective we know here at theCUBE that Dell is trying to make consumption of what they build, very, very simple for end user customers. Removing the complexity of the underlying hardware. There's a saying that the hardware doesn't matter anymore. You hear things referred to as serverless or no code, low code, those sort of abstract away from the reality of what's going on under the covers. But APEX, as an example from Dell allows things to be consumed as operational expense, dramatically simplifying the process of consuming that hardware. Now, if you go down to almost the concrete layer where Digital Realty starts up, you're looking at things like density and square footage and power consumption, right? >> Yep. >> So tell me, you mentioned infrastructure. Tell me about the kind of optimization from a hardware standpoint that you expect to see from Dell. >> Yeah, in the data center, the subset of an industry, they call it digital or mission critical infrastructure, the space, the power, the secure housing, how do you create physical isolation? How do you deal with cooling and containment? How do you deal with different physical loads? 'Cause some of the more dense computers likely working with Dell and some of the various semiconductors that Dell takes and wraps into intelligent compute and storage blocks, the specialized processing for our use cases like artificial intelligence and machine learning, they run very fast, they generate a lot of heat and they consume a lot of power. So that means you have to be very smart about the critical infrastructure and the type of server infrastructure storage coming together where the heat can be quickly removed. The power is obviously distributed to it, so it can run as constant and as fast as possible to unlock insights and processing. And then you also need to be able to deal with things like, hey, the cabling between the server and the storage has to be that when you're running parallel calculations that there's an equal distance between the cabling. Well, if I don't think about how I'm physically bringing the server storage and all of that together and then having space that can accommodate and ensure the equal cabling in the layout, oh and then handle these very heavy physical computers. So that physical load into the floor, it becomes very problematic. So it's hidden, most people don't understand that engineering but that's the partnership that why we're excited about with Dell is you're bringing all that critical expertise of supporting all those various types of use cases of infrastructure combinations and then combining the engineering understanding of how do I build for the right performance, the right density, the right TCO and also do it where physical layout of having things in proximity and in a contiguous space can then be the way to unlock processing of data and connecting to others. >> Yeah, so from an end user perspective, I don't need to care about any of what you just said. All I heard was wawawawawa (chuckles). I will consume my APEX delivered Dell by the drink, as a service, as OPEX, however I want to consume it. But I can rest assured that Digital Realty and Dell are actually taking care of those meaningful things that are happening under the hood. Maybe I'm revealing my long term knuckle dragging hardware guy credentials when I just get that little mentioning. >> (indistinct) you got it, performance secure compliant and I don't need to worry about it. The two of you're taking care of it and you're taking care of it for me. And every major mentor around the world delivered in the experience it needs to be delivered in. >> So from the Digital Realty point of view, what are the things that not necessarily keep you up at night worrying, but sort of wake you up in the morning early with a sense of renewed opportunity when it comes to the data center space, a lot of people would think, well we're in the era of cloud, no one's building any data centers except for monster cloud players. But that's definitely not the case, is it? There's a demand for what you folks are building and delivering. So first, what's the opportunity look like and then what are the constraints that are out there? Is it dirt, is it power? What are the constraints you face? >> We have probably all the above, is the shortest answer, right? So we're not wawawa, right Dave? But what we are is the opportunity is huge because it's not one platform, there's many platforms there isn't one business that exists today that doesn't use many applications, doesn't consume many different services both internally and externally, and doesn't generate a ton of data that they may not even know where it is. So that's the exciting part. And that continues to force a requirement that says I need to be able to connect to all those clouds which you can do at our platform but I also need to be able to put infrastructure or the storage of data next to it and in between it. So it's like an integration approach that says if I think physical first think physical that's within logical proximity to where I have employees, customers, partners, I have business presence. That's what drives us, and in our industry continues to grow both. And we see it in our own business. It's a double digit growth rate for both commercial oriented enterprises and service providers in the telco cloud, or content kind of space. So it's kind of like a best of both worlds. I think that's what gets us excited. If I should take a second part of the question, what ends up boring is like all of us, it is a physical world, physical world start with, do we have enough power? Is it durable, sustainable and secure? Is it available? Do we have the right connectivity options. Keeping things available is a full-time job, making it so that you can accommodate local nuances when you start going in different regions and countries and metros there's a lot of regional policy compliance or market specific needs that have to be factored in. But you're still trying to deliver that consistent physical availability and experience. So it's a good problem to have but it's a critical infrastructure problem that I would put in the same kind of bucket as power companies, energy companies, telecommunication companies, because it's a meeting place for all of that. >> So you've been in this business, not just at Digital Realty but you you've been in this part of the IT world for a while. >> Yeah. >> How has the persona of a customer for a Digital Realty changed over time? Have we seen the kind of consolidation that people would expect in this space in terms of fewer but larger customers coming in and seeking floor space? >> Well, I think it's been the opposite of what probably people predict. And I pause there intentionally being very candid and open. And it's probably why that using data as the proxy to understand, is that it's a many to many world that's only getting bigger, not smaller. As much as companies consolidate, there's more that appear. Innovation is driving new businesses and new industries or the digitization of old industries which is then creating a whole multiplier effect. So what we're seeing is we're actually seeing a rapid uptake in the enterprise side of our business which is why I'm here in driving that. That really was much more nominal five years ago for being the provider of the space and capabilities for telcos and large hyperscalers continues to go because it's not like a once and done, it's I need to do this in many places. I need to continue to bring as there's a push towards the edge, I need to be able to create meeting places for all of it. And so to us, we're seeing a constant growth in more companies becoming customers on the enterprise side more enterprises deploying in more places solving more use cases. And more service providers figuring out new ways to monetize by bringing their infrastructure and making an accessibility to be connected to on our platform. >> So if I'm here hearing you right, you're saying that people who believe that we are maybe a few years away from everything being in a single cloud are completely off base. >> Mmh hmm. >> That is not the direction that we're heading, from your view, right? >> We love our cloud customers, they're going to continue to grow. But it's not all going to one cloud. I think what you would see is, that you would see where a great way to assess that and break it down is enterprise IT, Gartner's Forecast 4.2, four and a half trillion a year in spend, less than a third of that's hitting public cloud. So there's a long tail first of all, it's not going to one cloud of people. There's like seven or eight major players and then you go, okay, well, what do I do if it's not in seven or eight major players? Well, then I need to put it next to it. Oh, that's why we'll go to a Digital Realty. >> Makes a lot of sense. Tony Bishop, Digital Realty. Thanks for joining us on theCUBE. Have a great Dell Technologies World. For me, Dave Nicholson, stay tuned more live coverage from Dell Technologies World 2022 as we resume in just a moment. (soft music)

>>mm We're entering the fourth grade era of VM ware Executive management From its beginnings in the late 90s is a Silicon Valley startup. It's five founders quickly built the company and it ended up as one of the greatest acquisitions in the history of enterprise tech when EMC bought VM ware for $625 million as a public company. But still under EMC's governance, paul Maritz was appointed Ceo in 2000 and eight and set the company on a journey to build what he called at the time. The software mainframe meaning the company's platform would run any application at high performance with low overhead and world class recovery. Pat Gelsinger took over the Ceo reins in 2012 and through organic investments and clever m and a set of course for the software defined data center and after some early miscalculations in cloud, realigned the company strategy to successfully partner with hyper scale hours and position the company for the multi cloud future. The hallmarks of VM where over the course of its history have been great engineering that led to great products, loyal customers and a powerful ecosystem. The other telling attribute of VM where is it? CEOs have always had a deep understanding of technology and its latest Ceo is no different. It's our pleasure to welcome raghu Raghuram back to the cube the fourth Ceo of VM ware and yet another Silicon Valley Ceo graduated from the IIttie rgu, great to see you again and congratulations on your new role. >>Thanks. It's great to be here. >>Okay, five months in 1st 100 days what we have focused on that journey to become the Switzerland of multi cloud, tell us about your early experience as ceo >>it's been fantastic. Uh our customers, all our employees, all our partners have been very welcoming and of course I've given me great input. What we've been able to do in the last 100 days is to really crystallize the strategy and focus it around what I'm sure we're gonna be spending a lot of time talking about. And that's about the multi cloud era of computing that most enterprises are going to go through over the next decade. And so that's really what I've been up to and you'll see the results of that in next week's uh we involved and uh where we would be talking about the strategy and some product announcements that go along with the strategy and so it's a very exciting time to be at Vandenberg. >>Yeah, I mean, I referenced it in my intro, it's almost like the light bulb went off when VM ware realized, wow, this cloud build out is just an opportunity for us and that's really what you're doing with the multi cloud as you're building on top of all the infrastructure that the hyper cloud vendors are putting out there. Maybe you can talk about that, that opportunity and what customers are telling you. >>Yeah, it's uh here is how I describe what has happened in the industry. Right, and what will happen in the industry. So, if you look at the the past decade, as cloud became a mainstream thing, most customers pick the cloud, they built their first digital applications into it, the ones that serve their mobile users or end users with digital products and that worked great for them. Then they step back and say, okay, how many modernize everything that we're doing has become a digital company. And when you go from 10, of your portfolio, 100% of your application portfolio being modernized. What has to happen is you got to go from figuring out, okay, how am I gonna put everything in one cloud to what does the application need and how do I put it on the right place? I look at the same time, the industry has also evolved from being uh predominantly supplied by one cloud provider to multiple cloud providers. At the same time, the thanks to companies like IBM where the data center has been transformed into a private cloud. The edges growing up to be its own location for a cloud sovereign clouds are going. So truly what has happened is it's become a multi cloud world. And customers are saying in addition to just being cloud first, I want to be cloud smart. And so this distributed era of computing that we are entering is what we are seeing in the industry. And what the empire is trying to do is to say, look, let's provide customers with the fastest way of getting to this multi cloud era of computing so that they can go fast, they can spend less and most importantly, they can be free, in other words, choose the right application, right cloud for right applications and have control over how they deploy and use their applications and data. That really is a strategy that we are putting in place. This is something that we've been working towards in the last couple of years now. I'm accelerating that and making that the main piece of what we end, where is doing in order to do that, we have a great opportunity to take partner even better with all of our cloud provider partners and that's where the Switzerland of the industry comes in without impending spin, especially, we have great partnership with the cloud players, great partnerships with infrastructure players. We truly can be a neutral partner to the customers as they look at all these choices and make the right choices for their applications. >>So, I want to ask you about this multi cloud when when the early multi cloud narrative came out where I go, I was saying, look, multi cloud is really multi vendor, you you've got workloads and apps running on different, different clouds. And then increasingly, the promise and your promises, we're going to abstract the underlying complexity of those clouds and we're going to give you an experience whether it's on premise, hybrid into a cloud. Across clouds. Eventually out to the edge, it's gonna be a singular, substantially identical, if not identical experience and we're going to manage the whole kit and caboodle. And how where are we in that first of all? Is that the right way to think about it? Where are we in that sort of transition from plugging into any, you know, a cloud? I'm compatible with the cloud to it's a singular sort of VM ware cloud if you will. >>Yeah. So, um, so I wanna clarify something that he said because this tends to be very commonly confused by customers use the word abstraction. And usually when people think of abstraction, they think it hides capabilities of the uh, cloud providers. That's not what we are trying to. In fact, that's the last thing we're trying to do. What we're trying to do is to provide a consistent developer experience regardless of where you want to build your application so that you can use the cloud provider services if that's what you want to use. But the deficit cops toolchain, the runtime environment, which turns out to be Cuban aires and how you control the kubernetes environment. How do you manage and secure and connect all of these things. Those are the places where we are adding the value. Right. And so really the VM ware value proposition is you can build on the cloud of your choice but providing these consistent elements. Number one, you can make better use of us, your scarce developer or operator resources and expertise. Right. And number two, you can move faster and number three can spend less as a result of this. So that's really what we're trying to do, but not. So I just wanted to clarify the word abstraction in terms of their way, we're still, I would say in the early stages, so if you look at what customers are trying to do, they're trying to build these Greenfield applications and there is an entire ecosystem emerging around Campaneris. There is still kubernetes is not a developer platform. The developer experience on top of kubernetes is highly inconsistent. And so those are some of the areas where we are introducing new innovations with our towns, our application platform. And then if you take enterprise applications, what does it take to have enterprise applications running all the time, be entirely secure, etcetera, etcetera. That's where the we ever cloud assets that are traditionally this fear based come into play and we've got this now in all of the clouds but it's still in the early days from uh on Azure and google et cetera. How do you manage and secure those things again? We're in the early days. So that's where we are. I would say, >>yeah, thank you for that clarification, I want to sort of come back to that and just make sure we understand it. So for example, if I'm a developer and I want to take advantage of, let's say graviton uh and build an app on that, that so maybe it's some kind of data intensive app or whatever it is. I can do that. You won't restrict me from doing that at the same time. If I want to use the VM where management experience across all my clouds, I can do that as well. Is that the right way to think about it? >>Yeah, exactly. So the management experience by the way, and this is the other thing that gets missed in the remember dialogue because we've been so phenomenally successful with this fear. There's a misperception that everything we are doing atmosphere today works only on top. So everything we're doing at BM wear works only on top of the sphere. That's not the case. Take management, for example, our management portfolio is modular and independent of these, which means it can manage the Graviton application that you're building, right. It can manage a traditional, these fear based application, it can manage rage application, it can manage VM based applications, can manage computer based applications. Uh so it's truly uh, overall management layer. So that is really what we're trying to do. Same thing with our kubernetes example. Right, So our communities control plane allows you to control these kubernetes clusters. Whether the clusters are utilizing gravity and whether clusters are utilizing these fear based crew binaries environments. >>Okay, that's great. So it's kind of a set up question because my next question relates to project Monterey, Because, you know, I've always said when I write about about these things, when I saw Nitro, I saw Graviton, I saw project monitor, I said uh everybody needs a Nitro Nitro or a graviton because new workloads are coming. It's not just the X 86 can handle everything anymore asap whether it's sequel server, whatever we've got new workloads that are coming ai ml data intensive edge workloads, et cetera. Is that how we should think of? Project Monterrey. Where are you in Project Monterey? Why is it so important? Help people understand that? >>Yeah. Project mantra is super exciting for a couple of different reasons. One is uh in its first iteration and uh we announced project monitoring and last being well, we continue to build and we're making great progress along with the hardware partners that we are working with um in its first hydration it allows um um some of the functions that you would expect in the software defined data center to be offloaded into these montri processors. The smart nick processes. Right. So what that does, is it clears up the core CPU for other application functions. Right, so you get better scalability, more resource utilization, etcetera, etcetera. The second thing it does is because some of the software defined data center functions are done in the smart make um it gets accelerated as well. Because it takes advantage of the special accelerators that are there security functions, manageability functions, networking functions etcetera, etcetera. So that's that what you're alluding to is overall it's the v sphere, the sX Hyper Visor complimentary itself. That's moving into the specialized processors which allows the hyper Visor will be built into these smart mix, which means the main CPU can be an intel. CPU can be an M D C P. You can be an arm. CPU can be whatever it is you want in the future. So truly enables Monte CPU heterogeneous computing. So that's that's why this is exciting. And of course because it is the sphere, it can happen in the data centers, it can happen in Carlos. It can happen in Sovereign clouds. It can happen in the public clouds all over a period of time. And >>and potentially the Edge I would presume in the future. >>Sorry. Yeah, that's a great point. Thanks for pointing that out. In fact, the Edge is one of the most important places that will happen because we need these low latency applications such as in the telco case for example, right. Or we need these applications that have specialized processing the required. If you're setting up a cashier less store and you need to process and you need a lot of influence engines. So, Monterey helps with all of those things. >>I want to make sure our audience understands. It's because the software defined data center was awesome but but it also created waste in the sense that you have all these offload functions in storage and networking and security running on on x 86 processors which may not be the most efficient way. So emerging architectures around arm might be less expensive, maybe more cost effective, lower power. Uh maybe they do memory management differently. So there are these offload use cases. But as well you we talked about the edge there could be a lot of edge use cases that or whatever whether it's arm or in video etcetera. So now you're driving that optionality for customers so you can support more workloads of the future. >>Yeah, so this is exactly if you think about in europe when you talked about the embers evolution, the inverse core DNA has always been to master hydrogen. Itty right. And what we're seeing is this world of heterogeneous hardware coming alive. Right. You talked about Professor hydrogen Itty including GPU chips and so on. There is a memory architecture heterogeneous, their storage architecture heterogeneous. And so the idea is that regardless of what you use, how do you provide the best workload platform and a consistent way of managing all of these things and reducing the complexity while gaining the efficiency benefits and the other benefits that you talked about. >>So speaking of geniality that brings me to Tansu, you know early on people thought, oh wow containers, that's gonna kill VM where this is the opposite happened. You guys leaned in as as you have as a sign of great leadership these days. You don't get defensive, you just, you know, get the trend is your friend, as they say, give us the update on on Tan xue. Why is that so important to the future? >>Yeah. So if you look at any enterprises portfolio right, they are looking at it and saying look, there's a whole set of applications that I need to modernize. Now. The question becomes how do you modernize these applications in a way that it is essentially done with these microservices architectures and so on and so forth. In that context, how do I maximize the developer productivity and provide a great developer experience because there is not enough developers in the world to modernize every application that that's in every enterprise. Right. So, Tan xue is our answer to help enterprises modernize their applications and deliver in a way that the developed makes the developers very productive on the cloud of their choice. So that is really the strategic intent of Tancill and the core building block for Tan xue is of course kubernetes as you well know, Kubernetes has become the common infrastructure abstraction across clouds. So if you want portability for traditional VM based applications, he used this fear, if you want portability for traditional for containerized microservices applications, you assume kubernetes, that's how companies companies are thinking about it. And so that's the first thing that we did now. The second is you've got developers building applications all over the place. So now, just like you used to have physical server sprawl and now and then VM sprawl these days you have cluster sprawl, kubernetes, cluster sprawl and tons of mission control affects as a multi cloud, multi cluster kubernetes control plan works on the chaos and everything else that some of the Sun. The third point of Tanzania is the developer experience and we have introduced Andrew application platform, which is really focused on delivering a great developer experience on top of any Cuban Aires. So that's really how we're building out the towns of portfolio. And then of course we got Spring and uh as you well know a majority of enterprise applications today are java and if you want to modernize java, you use spring boot and so we had tremendous success with our uh spring boot technology and our startup, Springdale Ohio capabilities and so on and so forth. So that's the entirety of the towns of portfolio. It's multi cloud, it's kubernetes agnostic. Of course it runs great on this fear but it's really the approach making developers productive in the enterprise >>awesome. Thank you for that. I know we're tight on time but it's like speed dating with you raghu. So I'm gonna go on to another topic. Really important topic of security, you've made obviously some big acquisitions, there are things like carbon black, you've got a lot of stuff going on with, with, with endpoint, with end user computing, I'm first interested in sort of how you organize it looks like you're putting security and the networking piece together and then what's your swim lane? It seems like you're, you're focused obviously on your infrastructure. You're not trying to be all things to all people. Help us understand your strategy in that regard. >>Yeah, I mean security is a massive space, Right? And you covered very well. Hundreds and thousands of security problems that customers want to be solving. What we are focused on is how do we simplify the security problem for the customers? And we're doing it through three wells. The first one is we are baking security into the platforms that customers used ones. Right. But there are more obvious fear our workspace one, our container platform etcetera, etcetera. Right? Cloud platforms. So that's the first thing that we're doing. The second is we are putting um, bringing together, we're taking an end to end view of security, which is everything from an end user connecting from home to the corporate network or the sassy, sassy applications to the Windows devices they are using to the data center applications they're using to the club. Right? So we're taking a holistic view of security. So which means we want to combine our network security assets with our endpoint security assets with our workload security assets. That is why we bought all of those things together under one roof. And the third is we are instrumental in all of these and collecting signals from all of these and pulling it into the cloud and turning security into a machine learning and the data problem, right? And that is where the problem. Black cloud comes in and by doing that, we are able to provide a holistic view of where uh customer security posture, right? And these sensors can be on BMR platforms, on non BMR platforms etcetera. And so so that's really how we are approaching it. I mean there's the emerging industry term for a policy XDR. You might follow that. So that's really what we're trying to do. >>Outstanding. Last question and I know, I know we got to go. You mentioned the spin that's happening in november. That's an exciting time for a lot of reasons. I think the ecosystem, you know, emphasizing your independence but also gives you control of your balance sheet, regaining control of your balance sheet, tongue in cheek there. But it's important because all this, this cloud build out this multi cloud, exposing the primitives, leveraging the primitives and the A. P. I. S. Of these clouds making them identical across all these estates. That's not trivial and you're obviously gonna need resources to do that. So maybe you can talk about that and how you see the future playing out organic inorganic, maybe a little lemon A in there. What's your approach? How are you thinking about that? >>Yeah. So we are very excited with the impending spain, which like you said is on track to happen early november. Um and if you think about the spin, there are three aspects that we are excited about. The first aspect is uh we have a great relationship with Dell Tech, the company right. What we have done is we have codified that into a framework agreement that covers the gold market and technology collaboration and we are super excited by that and that baselines against what we do today and then as incentives on both sides to continue to grow that tremendously. So we're gonna continue being, doing that and that's going to continue being a great partner at the same time. From a partnership point of view, is truly going to be a Switzerland of the industry. So previously companies that were otherwise a little bit more competitive with dull now no longer have that reservation in partnering very deeply with us. I'm totally, like you said from a capital structure point of view, it gives us the flexibility to use to do em in a should we decide to do so in the future right? And use both equity and cash for them in a so so that's the capital structure, flexibility, the Switzerland positioning and the continuing great relationship with dull Those are the benefits of the spin >>love and the partner ecosystem has always been a source of, of innovation and it's a big part of the flywheel, the power of many versus the resources of one Ragu, Thanks so much for coming back in the queue. Best of luck. We're really excited for you and for the future of VM ware. >>Thank you and thanks for all the great work that you do and look forward to continuing to read your great research, >>appreciate that. And thank you for >>watching the cubes, continuous >>Coverage of VM World 2021. Keep it right there. >>Thank you. Mhm. Yeah.

(upbeat music) >> We're back. This is Dave Vellante of theCUBE, and we're here with Ray Wang, who just wrote a book reminiscent of the famous Tears for Fears song, Everybody Wants to Rule the World: Surviving and Thriving in a World of Digital Giants. Ray, great to see again, man. >> What's going on, man, how are you? >> Oh great, thanks for coming on. You know, it was crazy, been crazy, but it's good to see you face-to-face. >> Ray: This is, we're in the flesh, it's live, we're having conversations, and the information that we're getting is cut right. >> Dave: Yeah, so why did you write this book and how did you find the time? >> Hey, we're in the middle of pandemic. No, I wrote the book because what was happening was digital transformation efforts, they're starting to pop up, but companies weren't always succeeding. And something was happening with digital giants that was very different. They were winning in the marketplace. And never in the form of, if you think about extreme capitalism, if we think about capitalism in general, never in the history of capitalism have we seen growth of large companies. They get large, they fall apart, they don't have anything to build, they can't scale. Their organizations are in shambles. But what happened? If you look at 2017, the combined market cap of the FAANGs and Microsoft was 2 trillion. Today, it is almost 10.2 trillion. It's quintupled. That's never happened. And there's something behind that business model that they put into place that others have copied, from the Airbnbs to the Robloxes to what's going to happen with like a Starlink, and of course, the Robinhoods and you know, Robinhoods and Coinbases of the world. >> And the fundamental premise is all around data, right? Putting data at the core, if you don't do that, you're going to fly blind. >> It is and the secret behind that is the long-term platforms called data-driven digital networks. These platforms take the ability, large memberships, our large devices, they look at that effect. Then they look at figuring out how to actually win on data supremacy. And then of course, they monetize off that data. And that's really the secret behind that is you've got to build that capability and what they do really well is they dis-intermediate customer account control. They take the relationships, aggregate them together. So food delivery app companies are great example of that. You know, small businesses are out there that hundreds and thousands of customers. Today, what happens? Well, they've been aggregated. Millions of customers together into food delivery app. >> Well, I think, you know, this is really interesting what you're saying, because if you think about how we deal with Netflix, we don't call the Netflix sales department or the marketing department of the service, just one interface, the Netflix. So they've been able to put data at their core. Can incumbents do that? How can they do that? >> Incumbents can definitely do that. And it's really about figuring out how to automate that capture. What you really want to do is you start in the cloud, you bring the data together, and you start putting the three A's, analytics, automation, and AI are what you have to be able to put into place. And when you do do that, you now have the ability to go out and figure out how to create that flywheel effect inside those data-driven digital networks. These DDDNS are important. So in Netflix, what are they capturing? They're looking at sentiment, they're looking at context. Like why did you interact with, you know, one title versus another? Did you watch Ted Lasso? Did you switch out of Apple TV to Netflix? Well, I want to know why, right? Did you actually jump into another category? You switched into genres. After 10:00 p.m., what are you watching? Maybe something very different than what you're watching at 2:00 p.m.. How many members are in the home, right? All these questions are being answered and that's the business graph behind all this. >> How much of this is kind of related to the way organizations or companies are organized? In other words, you think about, historically, they would maybe put the process at the core or the, in a bottling plant, the manufacturing facility at the core and the data's all dispersed. Everybody talks about silos. So will AI be the answer to that? Will some new database, Snowflake? Is that the answer? What's the answer to sort of bringing that data together and how do you deal with the organizational inertia? >> Well, the trick to it is really to have a single plane to be able to access that data. I don't care where the data sits, whether it's on premise, whether it's in the cloud, whether it's in the edge, it makes no difference. That's really what you want to be able to do is bring that information together. But the glue is the context. What time was it? What's the weather outside? What location are you in? What's your heart rate? Are you smiling, right? All of those factors come into play. And what we're trying to do is take a user, right? So it could be a customer, a supplier, a partner, or an employee. And how do they interact with an order doc, an invoice, an incident, and then apply the context. And what we're doing is mining that context and information. Now, the more, back to your other point on self service and automation, the more you can actually collect those data points, the more you can capture that context, the more you're able to get to refine that information. >> Context, that's interesting, because if you think about our operational systems, we've contextualized most of them, whether it's sales, marketing, logistics, but we haven't really contextualized our data systems, our data architecture. It's generally run by a technical group. They don't necessarily have the line of business context. You see what HPE is doing today is trying to be inclusive of data on prem. I mentioned Snowflake, they're saying no way. Frank Slootman says we're not going on prem. So that's kind of interesting. So how do you see sort of context evolving with the actually the business line? Not only who has the context actually can, I hate to use the word, but I'm going to, own the data. >> You have to have a data to decisions pathway. That data decisions pathway is you start with all types of data, structured, unstructured, semi-structured, you align it to a business process as an issue, issue to resolution, order to cash, procure to pay, hire to retire. You bring that together, and then you start mining and figuring out what patterns exist. Once you have the patterns, you can then figure out the next best action. And when you get the next best action, you can compete on decisions. And that becomes a very important part. That decision piece, that's going to be automated. And when we think about that, you and I make a decision one per second, how long does it get out of management committee? Could be a week, two weeks, a quarter, a year. It takes forever to get anything out of management committee. But these new systems, if you think about machines, can make decisions a hundred times per second, a thousand times per second. And that's what we're competing against. That asymmetry is the decision velocity. How quickly you can make decisions will be a competitive weapon. >> Is there a dissonance between the fact that you just mentioned, speed, compressing, that sort of time to decision, and the flip side of that coin, quality, security, governance. How do you see squaring that circle? >> Well, that's really why we're going to have to make that, that's the automated, that's the AI piece. Just like we have all types of data, we got to spew up automated ontologies, we got to spit them up, we got to be using, we've got to put them back into play, and then we got to be able to take back into action. And so you want enterprise class capabilities. That's your data quality. That's your security. That's the data governance. That's the ability to actually take that data and understand time series, and actually make sure that the integrity of that data is there. >> What do you think about this sort of notion that increasingly, people are going to be building data products and services that can be monetized? And that's kind of goes back to context, the business lines kind of being responsible for their own data, not having to get permission to add another data source. Do you see that trend? Do you see that decentralization trend? Two-part question. And where do you see HPE fitting into that? >> I see, one, that that trend is definitely going to exist. I'll give you an example. I can actually destroy the top two television manufacturers in the world in less than five years. I could take them out of the business and I'll show you how to do it. So I'm going to make you an offer. $15 per month for the next five years. I'm going to give you a 72 inch, is it 74? 75 inch, 75 inch smart TV, 4k, big TV, right? And it comes with a warranty. And if anything breaks, I'm going to return it to you in 48 hours or less with a brand new one. I don't want your personal information. I'm only going to monitor performance data. I want to know the operations. I want to know which supplier lied to me, which components are working, what features you use. I don't need to know your personal viewing habits, okay? Would you take that deal? >> TV is a service, sure, of course I would. >> 15 bucks and I'm going to make you a better deal. For $25 a month, you get to make an upgrade anytime during that five-year period. What would happen to the two largest TV manufacturers if I did that? >> Yeah, they'd be disrupted. Now, you obviously have a pile of VC money that you're going to do that. Will you ever make money at that model? >> Well, here's why I'll get there and I'll explain. What's going to happen is I lock them out of the market for four to five years. I'm going to take 50 to 60% of the market. Yes, I got to raise $10 billion to figure out how to do that. But that's not really what happens at the end. I become a data company because I have warranty data. I'm going to buy a company that does, you know, insurance like in Asurion. I'm going to get break/fix data from like a Best Buy or a company like that. I'm going to get at safety data from an underwriter's lab. It's a competition for data. And suddenly, I know those habits better than anyone else. I'm going to go do other things more than the TV. I'm not done with the TV. I'm going to do your entire kitchen. For $100 a month, I'll do a mid range. For like $500 a month, I'm going to take your dish washer, your washer, your dryer, your refrigerator, your range. And I'll do like Miele, Gaggenau, right? If you want to go down Viking, Wolf, I'll do it for $450 a month for the next 10 years. By year five, I have better insurance information than the insurance companies from warranty. And I can even make that deal portable. You see where we're going? >> Yeah so each of those are, I see them as data products. So you've got your TV service products, you've got your kitchen products, you've got your maintenance, you know, data products. All those can be monetized. >> And I went from TV manufacturer to underwriter overnight. I'm competing on data, on insurance, and underwriting. And more importantly, here's the green initiative. Here's why someone would give me $10 billion to do it. I now control 50% of all power consumption in North America because I'm also going to do HVAC units, right? And I can actually engineer the green capabilities in there to actually do better power purchase consumption, better monitoring, and of course, smart capabilities in those, in those appliances. And that's how you actually build a model like that. And that's how you can win on a data model. Now, where does HPE fit into that? Their job is to bring that data together at the edge. They bring that together in the middle. Then they have the ability to manage that on a remote basis and actually deliver those services in the cloud so that someone else can consume it. >> All right, so if you, you're hitting on something that some people have have talked about, but it's, I don't think it's widely sort of discussed. And that is, historically, if you're in an industry, you're in that industry's vertical stack, the sales, the marketing, the manufacturing, the R&D. You become an expert in insurance or financial services or whatever, you know, automobile manufacturing or radio and television, et cetera. Obviously, you're seeing the big internet giants, those 10 trillion, you know, some of the market caps, they're using data to traverse industries. We've never seen this before. Amazon in content, you're seeing Apple in finance, others going into the healthcare. So they're technology companies that are able to traverse industries. Never seen this before, and it's because of data. >> And it's the collapsing value chains. Their data value chains are collapsing. Comms, media, entertainment, tech, same business. Whether you sell me a live stream TV, a book, a video game, or some enterprise software, it's the same data value stream on multi-sided networks. And once you understand that, you can see retail, right? Distribution, manufacturing collapsed in the same kind of way. >> So Silicon Valley broadly defined, if I can include, you know, Microsoft and Amazon in there, they seem to have a dual disruption agenda, right? One is on the technology front, disrupting, you know, the traditional enterprise business. The other is they're disrupting industries. How do you see that playing out? >> Well the problem is, they're never going to be able to get into new industries going forward because of the monopoly power that people believe they have, and that's what's going on, but they're going to invest in creating joint venture startups in other industries, as they power the tools to enable other industries to jump and leap frog from where they are. So healthcare, for example, we're going to have AI in monitoring in ways that we never seen before. You can see devices enter healthcare, but you see joint venture partnerships between a big hyperscaler and some of the healthcare providers. >> So HPE transforming into a cloud company as a service, do you see them getting into insurance as you just described in your little digital example? >> No, but I see them powering the folks that are in insurance, right? >> They're not going to compete with their customers maybe the way that Amazon did. >> No, that's actually why you would go to them as opposed to a hyperscale that might compete with you, right? So is Google going to get into the insurance business? Probably not. Would Amazon? Maybe. Is Tesla in the business? Yeah, they're definitely in insurance. >> Yeah, big time, right. So, okay. So tell me more about your book. How's it being received? What's the reaction? What's your next book? >> So the book is doing well. We're really excited. We did a 20 city book tour. We had chances to meet everybody across the board. Clients we couldn't see in a while, partners we didn't see in a while. And that was fun. The reaction is, if you read the book carefully, there are $3 trillion market cap opportunities, $1000 billion unicorns that can be built right there. >> Is, do you have a copy for me that's signed? (audience laughing) >> Ray: Sorry (coughs) I'm choking on my makeup. I can get one actually, do you want one? >> Dave: I do, I want, I want one. >> Can someone bring my book bag? I actually have one, I can sign it right here. >> Dave: Yeah, you know what? If we have a book, I'd love to hold it. >> Ray: Do you have any here as well? >> So it's obviously you know, Everybody Wants to Rule the World: Surviving and Thriving in a world of Digital Giants, available, you know, wherever you buy books. >> Yeah, so, oh, are we still going? >> Dave: Yeah, yeah, we're going. >> Okay. >> Dave: What's the next book? >> Next book? Well, it's about disrupting those digital giants and it's going to happen in the metaverse economy. If we think about where the metaverse is, not just the hardware platforms, not just the engines, not just what's going on with the platforms around defy decentralization and the content producers, we see those as four different parts today. What we're going to actually see is a whole comp, it's a confluence of events that's going to happen where we actually bring in the metaverse economy and the stuff that Neal Stephenson was writing about ages ago in Snow Crash is going to come out real. >> So, okay. So you're laying out a scenario that the big guys, the disruptors, could get disrupted. It sounds like crypto is possibly a force in that disruption. >> Ray: Decentralized currencies, crypto plays a role, but it's the value exchange mechanisms in an Algorand, in an Ether, right, in a Cardano, that actually enables that to happen because the value exchange in the smart contracts power that capability, and what we're actually seeing is the reinvention of the internet. So you think, see things like SIOM pop-up, which actually is creating the new set of the internet standards, and when those things come together, what we're actually going to move from is the seller is completely transparent, the buyer's completely anonymous and it's in a trust framework that actually allows you to do that. >> Well, you think about those protocols, the internet protocols that were invented whenever, 30 years ago, maybe more, TCP/IP, wow. I mean, okay. And they've been co-opted by the internet giants. It's the crypto guys, some of the guys you've mentioned that are actually innovating and putting, putting down new innovation really and have been well-funded to do so. >> I mean, I'll give you another example of how this could happen. About four years ago, five years ago, I wanted to buy Air Canada's mileage program, $400 million, 10 million users, 40 bucks a user. What do I want them in a mileage program? Well think about it. It's funded, a penny per mile. It's redeemed at 1.6 cents a mile. It's 2 cents if you buy magazines, 2 1/2 cents if you want, you know, electronics, jewelry, or sporting equipment. You don't lose money on these. CFOs hate them, they're just like (groans) liability on the books, but they mortgage the crap out of them in the middle of an ish problem and banks pay millions of dollars a year pour those mileage points. But I don't want it for the 10 million flyers in Canada. What I really want is the access to 762 million people in Star Alliance. What would happen if I turned that airline mileage program into cryptocurrency? One, I would be the world's largest cryptocurrency on day one. What would happen on day two? I'd be the world's largest ad network. Cookie apocalypse, go away. We don't need that anymore. And more importantly, on day three, what would I do? My ESG here? 2.2 billion people are unbanked in the world. All you need is a mobile device and a connection, now you have a currency without any government regulation around, you know, crayon banking, intermediaries, a whole bunch of people like taking cuts, loansharking, that all goes away. You suddenly have people that are now banked and you've unbanked, you've banked the unbanked. And that creates a whole very different environment. >> Not a lot of people thinking about how the big giants get disintermediated. Get the book, look into it, big ideas. Ray Wang, great to see you, man. >> Ray: Hey man, thanks a lot. >> Hey, thank you. All right and thank you for watching. Keep it right there for more great content from HPE's big GreenLake announcements. Be right back. (bright music)

(upbeat music) >> theCUBE's back on day three here in Cloud City Mobile World Congress. This is where all the action is, and this is theCUBE set. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. We're here with DR, Danielle Royston, who is the CEO of TelcoDR, as well as the CEO of Totogi. Great to see you again. >> Hey. >> Hey, how are you guys? >> Good. >> Great time, great boat last night, good industry executives. A lot of intimate high player, big players here in the industry, even though not a lot of attendance, but the right people are here and events are back. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think, MWC was the first event to cancel with COVID in February, end of February 2020. So first big event to come back. It's such a nice symmetry. Yeah. Typically you have big delegations, hundreds of people from the big groups coming to the show. We're seeing the executives are coming, smaller delegations, but they're all in the booth and that we're having great conversations and it's awesome. >> Yeah, and the thing I will say is that theCUBE's back too. We'd like them to be, be in here in the action, because one of the things that's happened with this hybrid events is that people are watching. And so there's a virtual space and the physical space and Cloud City has built out paradise. It's beautiful and spectacular behind us. If you look around, for the people who can't see, it's really made for the combination of on-site and virtual experience, the content, the people, Bon Jovi last night, it's just the top of Mobile World Congress and it's translating to the industry. This has been amazing. So congratulations. >> Thank you so much. >> Well. I got to say, you have a lot to say as we all know. >> Danielle: Yeah. >> But I think it was easy for the big guys. >> Danielle: Can't shut me up. (laughing) >> That's why we love you in theCUBE. But I think it was easy for the big guys to tap out and say, hey, we can save a bunch more money. >> Danielle: Yeah. >> We don't really have much to talk about. We're going to talk about it again. Hey, let's talk about 5G. >> Yeah, yeah, exactly. >> 5G's coming. >> It's the revolution. >> And I told you about 5G though. >> Whereas the narrative here is all about the future. And it's not about the future of blah blah blah, it's about the future of, this is the journey that we're taking and here's where it's starting and with the meat in the bone. >> Yeah. And I think what's really interesting about Cloud City is the fact that we've brought these different players together that are all focused, as you said, on the future. And I'm starting to see these connections where they're collaborating. Vendors that didn't know each other probably would never have partnered before. Totally different areas. I'm hearing the conversation in the booth about like, hey, I talked to P1 security, or I went and talked to LMX and we're putting deals together 'cause we're complimentary. And it's amazing and so that's really good. >> And the integration partnership, heard that from Google yesterday on our news exclusive break in there. They see integration and they're talking about Android, with what Android did for mobile. They're seeing a whole new software paradigm coming into telco. Its partnership, its ecosystem and open. These are new kind of dynamics. >> And I think for you guys, when you say integration and open, I think those things are really paired and they're important. A lot of times Telco people will hear integration, and they'll think customization. Coding it up and customizing it so that they talk to each other. But I think the open part of that is really important where we're connecting via APIs. And I think that's bringing the hyperscalers. That's what they do. They provide these systems and the software that's all API based and you can use it very quickly and you can unravel it if you need to. And it's that feature velocity, we talked about a couple days ago. >> And automation is the underpinning. >> Yeah, yeah. >> I mean, that's really the theme, right? >> Right. >> It's not like a one-off hardcore custom integration that's going to be frozen. >> One time to upgrade it every 18 months or whatever it is. Yeah, it's a life. >> Dave: How about Musk yesterday? >> John: I mean, he's always a crowd pleaser. First of all, my kids love him. He's crazy. >> Who doesn't love Elon Musk? >> I mean, he is amazing. He's a builder and he takes no prisoners. He's just, you know what, my goal was not to go bankrupt. That's what he said a couple of years ago. >> Dave: Which was brilliant because everybody's gone bankrupt in that business and he's just close it off. >> And he's just like, look, we're here, we're just going to chip away at it and we're just going to keep striving, not making up excuses. He takes the failures. He takes the phase plans. He gets back up and he keeps going. He's focused on building. >> He's focused on one thing. He's not focused on everything. He's focused on getting to Mars. And I think that's what I like to compare myself to Elon Musk. Not that I'm building rockets or getting to Mars, but that the hard problem that I'm solving is getting Telco to the public cloud and that's going to take a decade. It might have been accelerated because of COVID, it might've taken 20 years and now it might take 10. But you look at what he does, and that guy, he has haters on Twitter that are pew- pew. Always like, throw in their bars, but he's like, I got my rocket company. I got my communication and space company. We're going to need the bore holes, the Boring Company. I need batteries, I got my Tesla company. And so this guy focuses. >> He's got some haters, but he's got a lot more lovers on his other side because people might not know this, but he fired the entire PR department because he's like, I don't need PR. I'm just going to go do my own, his own PR. >> Obviously, the crypto stuff's always fun. Doge coins, always a laugh. >> Danielle: I think he just plays around with that. >> And it's just more of like playing. >> Yeah, that's a watch this. >> He just likes to see what he can do. >> Doge coins app. That Saturday Night Live was an interesting thing he did, but I think he illustrates the point of a new generation. And I think my young kids, not young, they're in their twenties now. They look at him and they say, that's aspirational because he's building and he's focused on that one thing. And again, the growth that you mentioned Telco to the cloud, getting back to that is that, I want to ask you this growth question. It used to be like, okay, growth was there, people expanded cell towers, networks were networks. Now it seems that the growth of Telco, with Telco is going into, with the edge and all the open-RAN stuff, which means we need more infrastructure. >> Danielle: Yeah. >> We need more stuff. There's more needed and there's growth behind them. What's your reaction? >> I think we need more software. Software eats the world. And it's, I mean, there's a lot of hardware to chomp in Telco and it's just going to keep eating it and that's just going to accelerate. I think that's where Telco needs to start to build that muscle. They don't have great software capability. They don't have public cloud building capability. And so that's a big up-skilling. That's a new hiring. And I think it's an executive conversation. It's not just an IT thing or just a marketing thing or networking thing. >> I got to chime in here for a second because there are a lot of parallels with how the data center transition has occurred. And what's happening here. We talk about all the time. It was a mainframe, et cetera. There are parallels. >> Danielle: Yeah, yeah. >> And what happened when the data center went to software-defined a whole bunch of hardware was allocated to run all the software-defined stuff. It wasn't built for that. >> Danielle: Yeah. >> But the cloud, what you guys are doing with Totogi and taking advantage of AWS's is Nitro and Graviton. That's built to be software-defined. >> Correct. >> And so the Telcos are going to go through the same thing. If they just virtualize, they're going to say, oh wow, we're wasting 30% of our power, our compute power on just supporting all this software-defined stuff, because it wasn't built for that, but the cloud is built for that. >> Danielle: Yeah. >> And that is going to be a huge difference. >> And I keep trying to make this distinction. And I think people in Telco still don't get this about the public cloud. They think of it as a place. It's a place to run a workload. And that tells me, they think of it as infrastructure. They think of it as servers still like, well, I'm going to run into my closet or AWS's closet. I'm like, and I was just having a conversation about this with this senior person from GSMA. I'm like, it's actually about the software that's there. It's about the databases they're building and the analytics and the AI and the ML but they let you buy by the minutes or by the API call. And that is my, like you need to think about that because it's mind-blowing. It's a totally different way to think. >> And you're totally right. I'm just going to, again, give you props on this. I've had many one-on-one with Andy Jassy for the past seven years for exclusives, but over the years it's been consistent. Each platform lifting and shift wasn't the end game. Okay. Replatforming in the cloud, certainly a great advantage, a great starting point. It was the refactoring. And that's why you see Amazon Web Services, for instance, keep adding more services 'cause that's the model. >> Danielle: Yeah. >> They keep offering more goodness so that the businesses could refactor, not just replatform. >> Danielle: Yeah. >> And that's what you're getting at. I think with the AI and machine learning, where you start getting into these new use cases, but why I couldn't do that before. >> Danielle: Right, right. >> This is going to be a huge game changer. >> Well, Forrest Brazeal. A great guy, a cloud guru wrote a great blog called a lift-and-shift is a ticking time bomb. And it's a great start to get your stuff over there. It forces your team to start to interact with like an AWS or GCP in a real way. Like now they, they got to use it. You take it away and I'm like, but once you move it, you got to re-factor. You got to rewrite. And then that's why it's a ticking time bomb. You got to get, move it over and get going. >> Danielle Royston, DR, Digital Revolution of you are one. You got it here, Telco DR. And this has been a great experience for theCUBE, as we get back to business with real life events and virtual. For the folks who couldn't make it here, Barcelona is still a great city. Obviously a great place to come and the events will be back. They'll be hybrid. They'll be different. Certainly, theCUBE will wait double them down, but, we've got a great video. I want to share for the group, the Barcelona and Cloud City. This is a montage of what it's like here and a little experiential video. So take it away and run that video. (upbeat techno music) >> Hi, I'm Katie Goldfinch, here in Barcelona for an action packed Day Two at TelcoDR's Cloud City. This morning, the focus was firmly on DR. and her MWC keynote, which told Telco execs in no uncertain terms that now is the time to act on embracing public cloud. Back in Cloud City content ruled the day with both theCUBE and Cloud City live stages, hosting public cloud, thought-leaders covering a wide range of topics to educate and inspire attendees. And in the beautiful space of Cloud City, the excitement grew throughout the day as we streamed MWC's exclusive keynotes from Elon Musk and preparations got underway for tonight's star performer, Jon Bon Jovi. (upbeat techno music) Wow! What an amazing day from groundbreaking keynotes into space and back to a star studded performance. Don't forget, you can catch up on anything you missed and join us for the rest of the week at cloudcity.telcodr.com or following #cloudcity. (upbeat techno music) >> Okay, we're back. That was great look at what's going on here in Cloud City. This next video, DR, you're going to love this. Your keynote highlights and some Bon Jovi highlights, which by the way, was the most epic thing. People were packed. >> Dave: It was exciting. >> Place was packed. It had the security clicking people, counting all the people, people are standing back. All the people from their booths are all coming in to watch. >> Dave: He was pumped. >> Let's take a look at this awesome highlight video from yesterday. (upbeat techno music) (upbeat techno music) >> Okay, we're back at theCUBE. Dave, that was a highlight reel yesterday. DR has got some action on stage, great messaging, revolution, digital revolution. >> You know your comment about how you think like Elon Musk. That's an inspiration from it. I mean, what a lot of people don't know is when you look at autonomous vehicles, remember you're driving down Palo Alto, you see one of those lidar things. He's doing away with lidars, it's too expensive. It's $7,000. He's taking it with cheap cameras and software down to a couple of hundred bucks per vehicle. >> Danielle: Wow. >> That's the way he thinks. And you're doing the same thing to Telco. >> Danielle: I am. I am I'm trying to change Telco. I mean, he's changing the world. He might be one of the most important humans on Earth right now. I don't think I'm exactly that level, but I'm trying to become a really important person in Telco. We have this great message. I think it's going to help Telcos to get better businesses. And I think it's a great idea. >> For the folks out there watching, what is that big change? If you're going to drive down this Cloud City street, main street of Cloud City and just all about Cloud. Because public clouds here, it's going to become hybrid, dynamics, operating models are changing. What is the key message that you'd like to send? >> I think all of the software in Telco needs to be rewritten. And that's how many millions of lines of code is that? And it's going to be shrunk down and put out on public cloud and rewritten using the software Legos of the public cloud. That is a big undertaking. No one's working on it. I'm working on it. I'm doing it. Let's go do it. >> Let's do it. And if you look out a couple of years, what would be a successful, what does checkmate look like in this chess game? >> I'm winning? #winning >> You're opening move is pretty good as we say in chess. >> I mean, I think it, it takes, again, it takes singular focus like Elon Musk on Mars. Someone needs to singularly focus on getting the public cloud and you can't sit there and protect your old business models, your CR revenue, if you're Amdocs. Give that up. When they start to give up their CR revenue to focus on public cloud, then they'll be, okay, there's a worthy adversary out there really focusing on it. >> I mean the late Clayton Christensen had all the same things. Innovator's dilemma. You get stuck here, what do you do? >> Danielle: What do you do? >> You kill your own, you eat your own to bring in the new, I mean, all these things are going on. This is a huge test. >> And to be willing to burn some boats. >> I think it's transparency, simplicity, and the consumer saying, hey, this is a great experience. That's the Tel sign. >> Danielle: Yeah. >> And that's what we're going to see over this next decade. >> Plus consumers love their Telco. I can't wait for that. I want to love my Telco. >> Dave: Like you love Netflix. >> Yes, exactly. >> DR, we love you because you've got a bold vision. You're putting it out there and you're driving it. You're walking the talk. Congratulations. And again, Cloud City's a home run. >> Awesome. >> Great success. Thanks for having theCUBE. >> Thank you guys. As always super fun. Great day. >> Okay. >> CUBE's coverage here. And remember, we're here getting all the action and it's all going to go online after a synchronous consumption. But right now, it's all about Mobile World Congress and Cloud City. This is the action. And of course, Adam in Cloud City Studio is waiting for us and he's going to take it from here.

(soft upbeat music) >> TheCUBE's back on day three here in Cloud City, Mobile World Congress. This is where all the action is and this is theCUBE's set, I'm John with Dave Vellante. We're here with DR, Danielle Royston, who is the CEO of TelcoDR, as well as the CEO of Totogi. Great to see you again. >> Hey. >> Hey, how are you guys? >> Good >> Great time, great booth last night, good industry executives. A lot of intimate high player, big players here in the industry, even though not a lot of attendance, but the right people are here and events are back. >> Yeah. I think, MWC was the first event to cancel with COVID in end of February 2020. So first big event to come back, it's such a nice symmetry. Typically you have big delegations, hundreds of people from the big groups coming to the show. We're seeing the executives are coming, smaller delegations, but they're all in the booth and that we're having great conversations and it's awesome. >> Yeah. And the thing I will say is that theCUBE's back too we'd like them to be in here in the action, because one of the things that's happened with this hybrid events is that people are watching. And so there's a virtual space and the physical space, and Cloud City has built out paradise, it's beautiful and spectacular behind us. If you look around for the people who can't see, it's really made for the combination of onsite and virtual experience. The content, the people Bon Jovi last night, it's just the top of Mobile World Congress. And it's translating to the industry, this has been amazing. So congratulations. >> Danielle: Thanks so much. >> Dave: I think I got to say, you have a lot to say as we all know. But I think it was easy for the big guys. >> Danielle: Can't Shut me up. (chuckles) >> That's why we love you in theCUBE. But I think it was easy for the big guys to tap out and say, Hey, we're going to save a bunch more money, we don't really have much to talk about. We're going to talk about again. Hey, let's talk about 5G. (chuckles) >> It's a revolution >> Have I told you about 5G though. >> Whereas the narrative here is all about the future and it's not about the future of blah-blah-blah, it's about the future, this is the journey that we're taking and here's where it's starting, and with meat on the bone. >> Yeah. I think what's really interesting about Cloud City is the fact that we've brought these different players together that they're all focused, as you said, on the future. And I'm starting to see these connections where they're collaborating. Like, vendors that didn't know each other probably would never have partnered before, totally different areas. I'm hearing the conversation in the booth about like, Hey, I talked to people in security, or I went and talked to LMX and we're putting deals together 'cause we're complimentary and it's amazing. >> John: And integration partnership, heard that from Google yesterday on our news exclusive break in there, they see integration. And they're talking about Android with what Android did for mobile. They're seeing a whole new software paradigm coming into Telco, it's partnership, it's ecosystem and open. These are new kind of dynamics. >> Danielle: And I think for you guys, when you say integration and open, I think those things are really paired in and they're important. A lot of times Telco people will hear integration, they all think customization. Coding it up and customizing it, so that they talk to each other. But I think the open part of that is really important where we're connecting via API's and I think that's bringing the hyper-scalers, that's what they do. They provide these systems and the software, that's all API base and you can use it very quickly, and you can unravel it if you need to. And it's feature velocity we talked about a couple of days ago. >> And automation is the underpinning of that. I mean, that's really the theme, it's not like a one-off hardcore custom integration that's going to be frozen. >> Danielle: One time to upgrade every 18 months or whatever it is, it's alive. >> Dave: How about Musk yesterday? >> John: I mean, he's always a crowd pleaser. First of all, my kids love him. He's crazy. >> Who doesn't love Elon Musk? >> I mean, he is amazing. He's a builder. And he takes no prisoners. He's just, you know what? My goal was not to go bankrupt. That's what he said a couple of years ago. >> Dave: Which was brilliant because everybody's gone bankrupt in that business and he's just blows it off. >> And he's just like, look it, we're here to just want to chip away at it and we're just going to keep striving, not making up excuses. He takes the failures, he takes the face plants, he gets back up and he keeps going. He's focused on building the future. >> He's focused on one thing, he's on focused everything. He's focused on getting to Mars. And I think that's what I like to compare myself to Elon Musk, not that I'm building rockets or getting to Mars, but that the hard problem that I'm solving is getting Telco to the public cloud. And that's going to take a decade. It might have been accelerated because of COVID, it might've taken 20 years and now it might take 10, but you look at what he does and that guy, he has haters on Twitter they're kind of pew pew, always like throw in their bars, but he's like, I got my rocket company, I got my communication and space company. We're going to need to bore a holes, The Boring Company. I need batteries, I got my Tesla company. And so this guy focuses. >> John: He's got some haters, but he's got a lot more lovers on his other side because people might not know this, but he fires the entire PR department because he's like, I don't need PR I'm just going to go do my own, his own PR. Actually the crypto stuff's always fun, Dogecoins are always a laugh. >> Danielle: I think he just plays around with that. >> And it's just more of like playing. >> Dave Vellante: And that's like, watch this! (laughs) >> He just like to see what he can do. >> I said that live was interesting thing he did, but I think he illustrates the point of a new generation. And I think my young kids, not young, they're in their '20s now, they look at him and they say, that's aspirational because he's building and he's not, he's focused on that one thing. And again, the growth that you mentioned Telco to the cloud, getting back to that, I want to ask you this growth question. It used to be like, okay, growth was there, people expanded cell towers, networks were networks, now it seems like the growth of Telco, what Telco is going into with Edge and all the open ranch stuff, which means that we need more infrastructure. We need more stuff, there's more needed and there's growth behind them. What's your reaction? >> Danielle: I think we need more software. Software eats the world. And it's, I mean, there was a lot of hardware to chomp in Telco and it's just going to keep eating it, and that's just going to accelerate. I that's where Telcos need to start to build that muscle. They don't have great software capability, they don't have public cloud building capability. And so that's a big up-skilling that's a new hiring and I think it's an executive conversation. It's not just an IT thing or just a marketing thing, or networking thing. >> Dave: I got to chime in here for a second because there are a lot of parallels with how the data center transition has occurred. And what's happening here. We talk about all the time, Oh, it's a mainframe, et cetera. There are parallels. And what happened when the data center went to software-defined a whole bunch of hardware was allocated to run all the software-defined stuff. It wasn't built for that, but the cloud, what you guys are doing with Togi and taken advantage of AWS's Nitro and Graviton. That's built to be software-defined. And so the Telcos are going to go through the same thing. If they just virtualized, they're going to say, oh wow, we're wasting 30% of our power our compute power on just supporting all this software-defined stuff, 'cause it wasn't built for that, but the cloud is built for that. And that is going to be a huge difference. >> Danielle: And I keep trying to make this distinction and I think people in Telco still don't get this about the public cloud. They think of it as a place. It's a place to run a workload. And that tells me, they think of it as infrastructure. They think of it as servers still like, well, I'm going to run into my closet or AWS' has closet. I'm like, and I was just having a conversation about this with a senior person from GSMA. I'm like, it's actually about the software that's there, it's about the databases they're building and the analytics and the AI, and ML that they let you buy by the minutes or by the API call. And that is like, you need to think about that 'cause it's mind blowing, it's a totally different way to think. >> John: You're totally right. And just going to again, give you props on this. I've had many ones with Andy Jackson for the past seven years for exclusives, but over the years it's been consistent. Each platform lifting and shift wasn't the end game. Re-platforming in the cloud certainly a great advantage, a great starting point. It was the refactoring. And that's why you see Amazon Web Services for instance, keep adding more services 'cause that's the model. They keep offering more goodness so that the businesses could refactor, not just re-platform. And that's what you're getting, I think with the AI and machine learning, where you start getting into these new use cases, but why couldn't do that before? >> Danielle: Right. >> This is going to be a huge game changer. >> Well Forrest Brazeal, a great guy, a cloud guru wrote a great blog called a lift-and-shift is a ticking time bomb. And it's a great start to get your stuff over there, it forces your team to start to interact with like, an AWS or GCP in a real way like now they, they got to use it. You take it away and I'm like, but once you move it you got to re-factor you got to rewrite and then that's why it's a ticking time bomb. You got to move it over and get going. >> John: You know, Royston DR, Digital Revolution of you are one, you got it here TelcoDR and this has been a great experience for theCUBE as we get back to business with real life events and virtual, the folks who couldn't make it here, Barcelona is still a great city, obviously a great place to come and the events will be back, they'll be hybrid, they'll be different. certainly theCUBE will lay, doubling down, but we've got a great video. I want to share for the group, the Barcelona and Cloud City, this is a montage of what it's like here and little experiential video. So take it away and run that video. (slow upbeat music) (upbeat music) >> Hi, I'm Katie Goldfinch here in Barcelona for an action packed day two at TelcoDR's Cloud City. This morning, the focus was firmly on DR and her MWC keynote which told Telco execs in no uncertain terms that now is the time to act on embracing public cloud. Back in Cloud City, content ruled the day with both theCUBE and Cloud City live stages, hosting public cloud thought-leaders, covering a wide range of topics to educate and inspire attendees. And in the beautiful space of Cloud City, the excitement grew throughout the day as we streamed MWC's exclusive keynotes from Elon Musk. And preparations got underway for tonight's star performer, Jon Bon Jovi. (upbeat music) >> Katie: Wow! What an amazing day from groundbreaking keynotes into space and back to a star studded performance. Don't forget, you can catch up on anything you missed and join us for the rest of the week at cloudcity.telcodr.com or following #cloudcity. (slow upbeat music) >> OK we're back, that was great look at what's going on here in Cloud City, this next video DR, you're going to love this. Your keynote highlights and some Bon Jovi highlights, which by the way, was the most epic thing, people were packed, >> Dave: It was exciting. >> This place was packed. It had the security, clicking peoples, counting all the people, people are standing back. All the people on their booths, they're all coming in to watch. >> Dave: He was pumped. >> Let's take a look at this awesome highlight video from yesterday. (slow upbeat music) (upbeat music) (slow upbeat music) >> Okay. We're back to theCUBE. Dave, that was a highlight reel yesterday. DR has got some action on stage, great messaging, revolution, digital revolution. >> You know your comment about how you think like Elon Musk, that's an inspiration from it. I mean, what a lot of people don't know is when you look at autonomous vehicles, remember you're driving down Palo Alto, you see one of those LIDAR things, he's doing away with LIDARs, it's too expensive. It's $7,000, he's taking it with cheap cameras and software down to a couple of hundred bucks per vehicle, that's the way he thinks and you're doing the same thing to Telco. >> Danielle: I am. I'm trying to change Telco. I mean, he's changing the world. He might be one of the most important humans on earth right now. I don't think I'm exactly that level, but I'm trying to become a really important person in Telco, we have this great message. I think it's going to help Telcos to get better businesses ad I think it's a great idea. >> John: For the folks out there watching, what is that big change? You're going to drive down this Cloud City street, main street of Cloud City and just all about cloud. 'Cause public clouds here, it's going to become hybrid dynamics, operating models are changing. What is the key message that you'd like to send? >> I think all of the software in Telco needs to be re-written. And that's how many millions of lines of code is that and it's going to be shrunk down, and put out on public cloud, and re-written using the software legos of the public cloud, that is a big undertaking. No one's working on it. I'm working on it. I'm doing it. Let's go do it. >> John: Let's do it. And if you look out a couple of years, what would be a successful, what does checkmate look like in these chess game that you play? >> (chuckles) I'm winning, hashtag winning. (laughs and crosstalk) I think it takes, again, it takes singular focus like Elon Musk on Mars. Somebody needs to singularly focus on getting to the public cloud and you can't sit there, and protect your old business models, your CR revenue if you're Amdocs, give that up. When they start to give up their CR revenue to focus on public cloud, then they'll be, okay there's a worthy adversary out there really focusing on it. >> John: I mean the late Clay Christianson had all the same things. Innovator's dilemma. You just get stuck here, what do you do? You kill your own, you eat your own to bring in the new, I mean, all these things are going on, this is a huge test. >> Danielle: If we're willing to burn some boats. >> I think it's transparency, simplicity, and the consumer saying, Hey, this is a great experience. that's the tell sign. And that's what we're going to see over this next decade. >> Consumers love their Telco, I can't wait for that I want to love my Telco. >> Dave: Like you love Netflix. >> Yes, exactly. >> DR, we love you because you've got a bold vision. You put it out there and you're driving it. You're walking the talk. Congratulations. And again, Cloud City is a home run, great success. Thanks for having theCUBE. >> Thank you guys as always, super fun. Great day. >> Okay. TheCUBE's coverage here and remember we're here getting all the action, and it's all going to go online after, synchronous consumption. But right now, it's all about Mobile World Congress and Cloud City. This is the action. And of course, Adam in Cloud City Studio, is waiting for us and you're going to take it from here.

>>From around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. I'm john ferrier host of the cube. Got a great story here. Navigating Covid 19 with Watson advertising and weather channel conversations. Sherry back steen. Who's the gM of Watson advertising in the weather company. Sherry, thanks for coming on the cube. My favorite part of IBM think is to talk about the tech and also the weather company innovations. Thanks for coming on. >>Hi, happy to be here, john >>So COVID-19 obviously some impact for people that working at home. Um normally you guys have been doing a lot of innovation around weather weather data um certainly huge part of it. Right. And so lots been changing with AI and the weather company and IBM so let's first start before we jump in, just a little background about what your team has created because a lot of fascinating things here. Go ahead. >>Yeah. So when the pandemic started, you know we looked at the data that we were seeing and of course in weather accuracy and accurate data is really important trusted data. And so we created a COVID-19 hub on our weather channel app and on weather.com. And essentially what it was is an aggregated area where consumers could get the most up to date information on covid cases, deaths in their area, trends see heat maps uh information from the C. D. C. And what was unique about it. It was to a local level. Right so state level information is helpful but we know that consumers uh me included. I need information around what's happening around me. And so we were able to bring this down to a county level which we thought was really helpful for consumers >>share as watching sports on tv. And recently, a few months ago, the Masters was on and you saw people getting back into real life, It's almost like a weather forecast. Now. You want to know what's going on in the pandemic. People are sharing that. They're getting the vaccine. Um, really interesting. And so I want to understand how this all came together with you guys. Is was it something that has a weather data, a bunch of geeks saying, hey, we should do this for companies, but take us to the thought process with their team. Was it like you saw this as value? How did you get to this? Because this is an interesting user benefit. I want to know the weather, I want to know if it's safe. These are kind of a psychology of a user expectation. How did you guys connect the dots here for this project? >>Well, we certainly do have a very passionate team of people, um some weather geeks included, um and you're absolutely right watching the Masters a few months ago was amazing to see, you know, some sense of normality happening here. But you know, we looked at, you know, IBM, the weather company, like, how do we help during this pandemic? And when we thought about it, we looked at there's an amazing gap of information. And as the weather channel, you know, what we do is bring together data, give people insights and help them make decisions with that. And so it was really part of our mission. It's always been that way to give information to keep people safe. And so all we did is took a different data set and provided the same thing. And so in this case, the covid data set, which we actually had to, you know, aggregate from different sources whether it was the C. D. C. The World Health Organization uh State governments or county governments to provide this to consumers. But it was really really natural for us because we know what consumers want. You know we all want information around where we live, right? And then we want to see like where our friends live, where our relatives live to make sure that they're okay. And then that enables people to make the decisions that are right for their family. And so it was really really natural for us to do that. And then of course we have the technology to be able to scale to hundreds of millions of people. Which is really important. >>It's not obvious until you actually think about that. It's so obvious. Congratulations. What a great innovation. What were the biggest challenges you guys had to face and how did you overcome it? Because I'm curious. I see you've got a lot of, lot of large scale data dealing with diversity of data with weather. What was the challenges with Covid? And how did you overcome it? >>So again, without a doubt it was the data because you're looking at one, we wanted that county level data. So you're looking at multiple sources. So how do we aggregate this data? So first finding that trusted source that that we could use. But then how do you pull it in in an automated way? And the challenge was it with the State Department, the county departments that data came in all kinds of formats. Some counties used maps, some use charts, some use pds to get that information. So we had to pull all this unstructured data, uh, and then that data was updated at different times. So some counties did it twice a day, some did it once day, different time zones. So that really made it challenging. And so then, you know, so what we did is this is where the power of A I really helps because a I can take all of that data, bring in and organize it and then we could put it back out to the consumer in a very digestible way. And so we were able to do that. We built an automated pipeline around that so we can make sure that it was updated. It was fresh and timely, which was really important. But without a doubt looking at that structured data and unstructured data and really helping it to make sense to the consumer was the biggest challenge. And what's interesting about it. Normally it would take us months to do something like that. I challenged the team to say we don't have months, we have days. They turned that around in eight days, which was just an amazing herculean feat. But that's really just the power of, as you said, passionate people coming together to do something so meaningful. >>I love the COVID-19 success stories when people rally around their passion and also their expertise. What was the technology to the team used? Because the theme here at IBM think is transformation innovation, scale. How did you move so fast to make that happen? >>So we move fast by our Ai capabilities and then using IBM cloud and so really there's four key components are like four teams that worked on it. So first there was the weather company team um and because we are a consumer division of IBM, we know what consumers want. So we understand the user experience and the design, but we also know how to build an A. P. I. That can scale because you're talking about being able to scale not only in a weather platform. So in the midst of covid weather still happened, so we still had severe weather record breaking hurricane season. And so those A. P. S. Have to scale to that volume. Then the second team was the AI team. So that used the Watson AI team mixed with the weather Ai team to again bring in that data to organize that data. Um And we used Watson NLP so natural natural language processing in order to create that automated pipeline. Then we had the corralled infrastructure so that platform team that built that architecture and that data repository on IBM cloud. And then the last team was our data privacy office. So making sure that that data was trusted that we have permission to use it uh and just know really that data governance. So it's all of that technology and all of those teams coming together to build this hub for consumers. Um And it worked I mean we would have about four million consumers looking at that hub every single day. Um and even like a year later we still have a couple million people that access that information. So it's really kind of become more like the weather checking the weather's come that daily habit. >>That's awesome. And I gotta I gotta imagine that these discoveries and innovations that was part of this transformation at scale have helped other ways outside the pandemic and you share how this is connected to um other benefits outside the pandemic. >>Yeah so absolutely um you know ai for businesses part of IBM strategy and so really helping organizations to help predict um you know to help take workloads and automate them. So they're high valued employees can work on you know other work. And also you know to bring that personalization to customers. You know, it's really a i when I look at it for my own part of a IBM with the weather company, three things where I'm using this technology. So the first one is around advertising. So the advertising industry is at a really um you know, pivotal part right now, a lot of turmoil and challenges because of privacy legislation because big tech companies are um you know, getting rid of tracking pixels that we normally use to drive the business. So we've created a suite of AI solutions for publishers for you know, different players within the ad tech space, um which is really important because it protects the open web, so like getting covid information or weather information, all of that is free information to the public. We just ask that you underwrite it by seeing advertising so we can keep it free. So those products protect the open red. So really, really important. Then on the consumer side of my business, within the weather channel, we actually used Watson Ai um to connect health with weather. So we know that there's that connection, some health um you know, issues that people have can be impacted by weather, like allergies and flew. So we've actually used Watson Ai to build a um Risk of flu that goes 15 days out. So we can tell people in your local area this one actually goes down to the zip code level, um the risk of flu in your area or the risk of allergies. So help to manage your symptoms, take your prescription. So, um that's a really interesting way. We're using AI and of course weather dot com and our apps are on IBM cloud, so we have this strong infrastructure to support that. And then lastly, you know, our weather forecasting has always been rooted in a i you take 100 different weather models, you apply ai to that to get the best and most accurate forecasts that you deliver. Um and so we are using these technologies every day to, you know, move our business forward and to provide, you know, weather services for people. >>I just love the automation and as users have smartphones and more instrumentation on their bodies, whether it's wearables, people will plan their day around the weather, and retail shops will have a benefit knowing what the stock and or not have on hand and how to adjust that. This, the classic edge computing paradigm, fascinating impact. You wouldn't think about that, but that's a pretty big deal. People are planning >>around >>the weather data and making that available is critical. >>Oh, absolutely. You know, every business needs a weather strategy because whether it impacts your supply chain, um agriculture, should I be watering today or not even around, you know, um, if you think about energy and power lines, you know, the vegetation growth over power lines can bring power lines down and it's a disruption, you know, to customers and power. So there's just when you start thinking about it, you're like, wow, whether really impacts every business, um, not to say just consumers in general and their daily lives. >>And uh, and there's a lot of cloud scale to that can help companies whether it's um be part of a better planet or smarter planet as it's been called, and help with with global warming. I mean, you think about this is all kind of been contextually relevant now more than ever. Super exciting. Um Great stuff. I want to get your take on outside of um the IBM response to the pandemic more broadly outside of the weather. What are you guys doing um to help? Are you guys doing anything else with industry? How could you talk a little bit more about IBM s response more broadly to the pandemic? >>Yeah so IBM has been you know working with government academia, industry is really from the beginning uh in several different ways. Um you know the first one of the first things we did is it opened up our intellectual property. So R. I. P. And our technology our supercomputing To help researchers really try to understand COVID-19 some of the treatments and possible cures so that's been really beneficial as it relates to that. Um Some other things though, that we're doing as well is we created a chat bots that companies and clients could use and this chat but could either be used to help train teachers because they have to work remotely or help other workers as well. Um and also the chatbots was helping as companies started to re enter back to the workforce and getting back to the office. So the chatbots been really helpful there. Um and then, you know, one of the things that we've been doing on the advertising side is we actually have helped the ad council with their vaccine campaign. Um It's up to you is the name of the campaign and we delivered a ad unit that can dynamically assemble a creative in real time to make sure that the right message was getting out the right time to the right person. So it's really helped to maximize that campaign to reach people um and encourage them if it's the right thing for them, you know where the vaccines are available. Um and that you know, they could take those. So a lot of great work that's going on within IBM. Um and actually the most recent thing just actually in the past month is we release the Digital Health Pass in cooperation with the state of new york. Um and this is a fantastic tool because it is a way for individuals to keep their private information around their vaccines or you know, some of the Covid test they've been having on a mobile device that's secure and we think that this is going to be really important as cities start to reopen um to have that information easily accessible. >>Uh sure, great insight, um great innovation navigating Covid 19 a lot of innovation transformation at IBM and obviously Watson and the weather company using AI and also, you know, when we come out of Covid post, post Covid as real life comes back, we're still going to be impacted. We're gonna have new innovations, new expectations, tracking, understanding what's going on, not just the weather. So thanks >>for absolutely great >>work. Um, awesome. Thank you. >>Great. Thanks john good to see you. >>Okay. This is the cubes coverage of IBM. Think I'm john for a host of the cube. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Dell Technologies World Digital Experience brought to you by Dell Technologies. >> Hello, and welcome back to theCUBE's coverage, actually, CUBE virtual coverage of Dell Technology World Digital Experience 2020. I'm your host John Furrier with theCUBE. We're not in person this year. Normally we're on the floor, we're talking to all the guests. This year, obviously, because of the pandemic we're going to be doing remote and of course, I'm proud to have a CUBE alumni back on the program. Cheryl Cook, senior vice president, global partner marketing for Dell Technologies. Cheryl, great to see you remotely, bummer we couldn't be in person, thanks for coming on. >> I know, thank you John. It's great to be with you virtually again. >> You know, I just want to just point out that obviously we're not face to face. Normally Dell Technology World is a real celebration. It's the, it's a culmination of all the announcements, all the community, all the partners, it's, it's actually a huge partner event as well as a customer event. You're running global partners. How has this pandemic changed your world? People still got to do business. More pressure for modern apps, programmable infrastructure Hybrid Cloud. The world's not stopping. What is your take on this? Because it's been a real challenge but it's an also an opportunity for the folks who can get through it. What's your take? >> Yeah, it's just been remarkable. You know, I tell people in some ways I find this the great equalizer because it has all of us around the world in the exact same place but our partners have just been remarkable. You know, we see inspirational work all over the place. They're so resilient and they have just been focused on the customer. And so together we have just been really focused on helping all of our customers as we know, in the early weeks and months of this now, you know, it was pivoting to support business continuity and enabling their employees to work remotely. And our partners just rallied to the cause. You know, they bring their expertise and their capabilities and their services. And you know, we've all been talking about digital transformation and the need to modernize all of our infrastructures. And I think we're all seeing it just accelerate. So in so many ways, it's just pushed it to the forefront and a lot of us, because we don't have an alternative, we're all engaging in modalities like this, but we're getting business done, right? We're helping our customers really respond to the needs of the business. And I think in the early stages of this, you know, we've been characterizing it as there was a lot of go fast, go light. Now we're seeing, you know, that we're all recognizing we're going to be in this circumstance for the foreseeable future, a little longer than maybe we all intended and now it's do it right. So we see a lot of just good work around hardening infrastructure, working on security vulnerabilities. How do we harden a VPN environment? So to be candid, you know, the breadth of our portfolio and a lot of the infrastructure solutions, our partnership with VMware has never been more relevant. And a lot of those capabilities our partners are leveraging to be able to support their customers needs and demands. >> Yeah, that's a great point about the VMware and I want to bring that up because I've been doing a lot of interviews and one of the themes for Dell Tech World Digital Experience this year has been the VMware integration. And what's interesting is is that that investment of being tightly coupled with VMware and your other partners is paying off now because as people need to be truly agile and flexible because of the disruption, the way the work environment, the workforce, workloads and the workplace has been changed they really need to lean on Dell. And you guys have that slogan, the power of partnering with Dell Technologies. I want to dig into what that means because the customers, your partners, end user customer there's kind of two spectrums. There's the, this is a tailwind, I have to go faster and put this modern app, I'm going to double down and solve problems. Whether it's a call center is getting stuff built quickly to solve needs. Two, well, this is a pandemic that's integral. So we're going to retool while we're kind of downtime. I won't say downtime, but like, while they're not truly active, whether you're in airlines or whatever, there's different spectrums and everything in between. You guys are bringing a lot to the table through these partnerships and the integrations. Can you talk about how that's paying off and two, how you guys are helping your partners and give some examples? >> Yeah, well, thank you John. And, you know, we have been saying for some time that we really do think the cross sell up, sell opportunity is a differentiated opportunity for our partners teaming with Dell Technologies. You know, even in the last several months while we've all been kind of working from home, our innovation engine hasn't stopped. I mean, we've launched nine new products in nine weeks all of which are just innovations that continue to represent areas where partners can team with us to bring those modernized applications to bear. And to your point, many of our partners and our customers are using this time when we're all remote and you can't go onsite, they're doubling down on their training. You know, we've seen an unbelievable demand in our competency training and our certification capabilities, clearly with the product launches. I just mentioned, there's new training to enable them around the new offerings. Our PowerStore product was just launched. So unbelievable opportunities. And as you said with VMware, you know, we have been for some time, when we talk about cross sell our partners that sell two and three lines of business, their revenues are multiples higher than partners that don't and candidly partners that sell three lines of business and sell VMware are selling like 148 times the revenue and I think it's a reflection of their engaging in strategic sticky services, rich deployments of hybrid cloud implementations with their customers, and the customers need their help and expertise like never before. So I think the results are showing true. And I also think in this dynamic of everything's gone digital, everything's pivoted to digital, you know, our partners have been asking how can we help them be more effective and successful in their digital marketing efforts and activities? How can we assist them in virtual selling? You know, everybody's accustomed to face to face sales contacts and we've all learned how to use your platform and Zoom and teams and all these other modalities that allow us to frankly be highly effective and efficient. And our partners candidly are leaning into some of our services and tools and capabilities that honestly have been there for some time, but like remote diagnostics, for example, remote capabilities so that you don't have to go on the data center floor and you can still be doing assessments and provisioning and orchestration and deployment for your customers in this time. And you're right, some customers and partners are using this as an opportunity to invest so that, you know, when the world opens up, this will end at some point, they are incredibly well positioned to move forward and take advantage of what's already been a fast moving market. And I just think this environment it's accelerated, the move and adoption, like never before. >> Yeah, and to your point, I think the thing we're seeing is that the vendors and the customers that have been prepared, suppliers and customers that have been thinking about it, you can see them having performance. Even in the challenging handcuffed environment that they're in with the whole, you know, disruption working at home to the data center because the edge and the data center are now connecting and you've got hybrid public, multi-cloud developing and everyone's got to learn and build out at the same time. So it's interesting, I want to get your thoughts on this because you know, the word virtual event has been kicked around. We have our own virtual event thing and everyone's doing it. This is theCUBE virtual but they don't use the word digital, but we say digital transformation. Is it digital, virtual transformation? So you've got virtual, I guess, reality virtual spaces, digital as digital, explain this from your perspective, how you see digital and virtual marketing and, or learning as a critical part of your program offerings because people still got to get the new things, they got to learn. >> I honestly, I think it's gone from a nice to have, and we all acknowledge that it's a transformation in the world of marketing to a, now it's a must have, right? I mean, when you no longer can do in person events, and many of our partners would have looked at that as a demand generation activity, they'd be capturing the leads from all the conversations we'd be having on a solution expo floor. We'd be having our in person events to now, we're going to convey our information and knowledge and maybe a virtual setting but that pivot to digital marketing, your online presence, the personalization at scale, making sure we acknowledged and understand that we have to meet our buyers and acknowledge the buyer journey has changed. And I think it's a must have now. So it's no longer a nice to have and we've all been describing the pace of change. But I think when you couple some of the trends in the industry with just the reality of this pandemic, that's making each of us be more resourceful than ever. You know, we, for example, I've seen our partners pivot the utilization of their MDF dollars into digital alternatives. They are certainly doing these Zoom experiences but they're also investing in their web properties and their search and making sure that as we pivot to digital we, for example, on the marketing side, we pivoted quickly to kind of stand up what we're calling an agile pod and it was a digital first agile pod that was frankly all aimed at training, enablement, social media guides, webinars on expertise on how we as a company were responding. What was our internal communication strategy, our external communication strategy. And I just think this appetite for training, knowledge. Some of it was necessity and some of it is we're all home and we have time and we want to hone our skills to ensure that we're ready. So I've never been busier as much as we're all working from home. We have never been busier on supporting the great and innovative work that our partners are doing but also really focused on the training, best practice sharing, enablement and webinars on how we're in it together, right? How can we help each other really respond in a sustaining way? Honestly, not just an interim way of our new digital capabilities, marketing capabilities. And I think we're experiencing, you know, what I think the opportunity of this digital trend in marketing is the handshake between marketing and sales has never been tighter. And I think really done well, we are going to provide a more personalized experience for our prospects and our customers. We're going to make our sellers more productive. We're going to be engaging along that continuum. We kind of it a digital heartbeat. We're going to be responding to where they are online and then we're also going to be meeting in person or over a virtual Zoom. And you're going to be accelerating in a highly relevant, much more personalized way to drive to the outcome of these solutions. It's a richer experience. So it's less about is marketing creating a bunch of leads that I can hand over to my sellers as much as what's the overall customer experience? And that experience needs to be a rich, personalized one that kind of transcends over marketing and sales. >> Yeah, Cheryl, you have an amazing vision, I think that is so spot on, you're on point. And I think you bring up a whole kind of sea change. It's really transformational just in the thinking, you mentioned, oh, just put out leads, also just, it's not about just standing up events either. You mentioned sustainability, how to have that heartbeat. This is a whole new level of thinking. I mean, every company the adage used to be, every company used to be a data company, every company will be a data company, true. Now you're seeing every company becoming a media company. Where you are probably doing more hosting of things. You're on camera more. So this new media API is developing where you want the command control, you want the truth, you want the community, you want the authenticity. This is the new, this is the new digital marketing, real time, agile and fast and relevant and cool too. What's your, expand more on your vision? >> And test and learn, you know, is a word we use a lot because instead of, you know, having to build something, go put it out, let's have some metrics and measures on how effective it was. The speed with which you can garner real time feedback. You know, everything needs to be more modular in natures, you know, snackable, if you will in nature, so that you can adapt and respond to what your customers are telling you, right? And I mean, I think we've been talking about consumerization of IT for some time. And I think this digital marketing is just the expression within marketing of how each of us come to work. And we're all at home as consumers engaging in this digital way as a consumer every day. So now when we bring it to work we bring our own preferences and in a B2B setting and a B2B context, we want to engage and it accelerates just the learning cycle. So I think it's a combination of the tools, the automation that exists now. So when you talk about leveraging AI and machine learning in the context of marketing automation, it's just putting to use all these technical trends that we've been discussing for some time in the context of customer experience. So I think this, like I said, the handshake between marketing and sales it's all about staying customer centric, listening to what the customers are telling you, their interests and preferences are. How do we respond in the most, highly relevant way around how we can help them, and done well, it's a positive experience but it's also an accelerated experience. You can get to the answer faster. And as long as we get to the answer faster, that's what the customer is looking for. Then it's a win, win for everybody. >> That's awesome, I love, I love that conversation because this brings up kind of the future for that, for your organization and your customers as you guys have this global partner network. Okay, and one of the things that the pandemic has shown is that with these digital technologies and virtual technologies, it's not a physical event, it's global. I mean, instantly Dell Technologies World you'd have to fly there, certainly from overseas, you could certainly do that. But now with one click of a button, you're in The programs that you have are global in nature. I'm sure there's some regional segmentation that's done with cloud and all that good stuff but you aren't going to have to recast your partner programs. Can you share how you're helping partners with their digital transformation? Didn't just give a couple examples of specifics of if I'm a partner what's in for me, Cheryl, what's going on? How is Dell helping me today? >> Yeah, well, I commented a little bit about this digital first kind of agile pod work we did. Some of that is selling guides, social media guides, how to actually do social selling, how to pivot some best practices around, you know, what activities can you put your MDF to good use that is showing really positive returns in the short term. So it's a lot of best practice sharing. And then candidly, we as a company, as we put campaigns in market, or we're giving marketing assets, collateral, social opportunities to our partners, it's all about how to help them get educated and use what we're already providing for them. So we recognize that, you know, partner's capabilities will vary across the board and certainly regionally, as you said but we definitely are helping them with, you know, here's what we're seeing around industry solutions. Here are certain industry verticals we know are responding or, you know, coming out of this environment faster than others. Here's campaigns that you can leverage both modularly or full-term key to be able to drive that. So to your point, the handshake, the support, the overall engagement of our partner community has never been higher. I mean, I'll give you a good example. You know, we talked about training and this opportunity to reach more people through these forums than in person. You know, we conduct trainings of presale technical teams around the world. We call it our heroes events, and these are in, you know, typically in person, but now they've gone virtual. We've trained over 18,000 presales technical engineers just in the first half alone to be able leverage our remote tools lean in and leverage the integration around VMware like we were just discussing. What are the new capabilities that have launched around, you know, VxRail with VCF Foundation and how they can go deploy. So in many ways we actually are touching and addressing the audience much wider than we might have otherwise. And I can put my subject matter experts, my best experts in the company on a Zoom forum like this. And I can have him in Sydney, Australia, Paris. I can have them in San Francisco on the same day and they never leave their home. So it's actually, we've all been very resilient, but are finding I think in the go-forward world, it'll be a hybrid model. We're going to leverage some of these best practices and tools. Even when the world reopens, we certainly will be doing in person events, again, that's going to come back but I do think it will be forever changed. And we're going to leverage this hybrid model with our partners and they're bringing their expertise to bear. And a lot of the vertical industry capabilities they bring, they're able to reach an audience broader over capabilities like this. >> You know, it's going to be a lot of fun too, all this new learning and all this headroom from asynchronous progressions that are nonlinear. As you mentioned training, people are getting trained faster to made for TV experiences. You're going to start to see, and then when hybrid events come back, they're going to be different. They may be more intimate. All new opportunities to learn and move fast and that's something that you guys have done. So congratulations, Cheryl, thanks for that great insight. My final question for you, this year for the partners watching who are there in person, 'cause we're not, we're remote. What should they take away from the Dell Technology World Digital Experience event this year? What's your, what's your, what's your summary here? >> Well, I hope they enjoy the couple of days and you certainly have heard, you know, Michael and Jeff and Pat and others talk about the innovation engine at Dell Technologies is not slowing down. You know, the tight partnership we have with VMware and the level of capabilities that we're bringing in this as a service, Hybrid Cloud, 5G, world of Hybrid Cloud deployments. We absolutely have our foot on the gas and are going to continue to be that partner to provide the world's best infrastructure and capabilities. And when you look at the power of partnership and to your point on what we're describing with our global alliance partners, the innovative and inspirational work, some of our OEM customers and partners have done is just remarkable. And like I said, we are growing faster than the competition, even in this environment. So we just really appreciate the partnership very much. And I want them to lean in with Dell Technologies because it's not going to slow down as we've just been discussing. I think it's going to continue to move fast and we absolutely are committed for the longterm to continue to innovate and bring new capabilities to market. >> Well, certainly people who have good business performance in this environment certainly are relevant and have the right product mix, made the right moves and it's paying off, a lot more to do. Cheryl, congratulations for all the success and the you're a great leader heading up the global partner marketing group over there. Congratulations, you've got a great vision, we totally agree. Thanks for coming, I appreciate it. >> Thank you, John, it's been a pleasure. >> I'm John Furrier here with Cheryl Cook, senior vice president, global partner marketing at Dell Technologies, theCUBE virtual covering Dell Technology World Digital Experience 2020. Thanks for watching. (gentle music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Dell Technologies. World Digital Experience Brought to you by Dell Technologies. Hello, everyone. And welcome back to the cubes wall to wall coverage of Dell Technologies World, The digital experience 2020. The Virtual Cube is coming at you. I'm Dave Volonte. And with me or two Great guest, my colleague and longtime business friend Howard Elias. He's the chief customer officer and president of services and digital Adele. And also joining me is Sri Raj, aka Sri Can't him Nene, who is the managing director of digital insights at Cargo, which is one of the world's largest privately held companies in the top maker and distributor of agricultural products and the things that we eat every day. Gentlemen, thanks so much for your time and coming on the Cube. Great to see you. >>Great to see you, Dave. And three. Great to see you again as well. >>Good to be with you both. So >>I wanna Howard, I wanna talk about start by talking about digital transformation. I'm gonna make it laugh. So I was talking to a customer every day or the other day, and we all talk about, you know, digital transformation. And I said, What's digital transformation to you? He said, Dave, my S a P system was 15 years old and I have to upgrade. It was like, Okay, there's eso There's a spectrum, as you know, but what do you seeing as digital transformation? What does that mean to your customers? >>Well, what we're seeing is a glimpse of the future. And first of all, Dave, Great to be with you again, uh, free and all of you out there hope everybody's safe. And, well, thanks for joining us, Adele Technologies World today. But digital transformation from our customers perspectives the technology enablement of experiences with customers, partners and employees, a swells automating processes to deliver value to the all key stakeholders. And we've just seen a glimpse of the future. Customers are accelerating their adoption of technology. We see this through necessity, right when everybody had to pivot from or toe work from home, especially those professional workers and for the most part, whether companies plan forward or not, we all embraced and learned new ways of being productive remotely, and that was all enabled by technology. But we've seen it in every walk of life. It's really an acceleration of trends that were already underway, whether it was the remote experience for professional employees, whether it's e commerce experience, whether it's telemedicine, distance learning. All of these things have been available for a while, but we've seen them be embraced and accelerated tremendously due to what we've seen over the last six months in all industries. And free will talk about what's happening specifically in the agricultural industry, and what we've seen is customers that have made investments over the years have been ableto move even faster in their specific industries. We've just on a survey of about 4600 customers around the world, and 80% have accelerated their investments in digital technology to improve the experience of their employees of their customers and of their partners. >>Yes, so So thank you for that, Howard. Three. I mean, a lot of people might think of cargo. There's physical business, but it's anything but. I mean, you've got such a huge data component to your business, but I wonder what you would add. I mean, we're maybe talk a little bit. I mean, it's such amazingly, you know, rich and deep company. But maybe talk about your digital transformation journey and at least in your sphere of the world where you're at. >>Yeah, thanks, David. You know, Howard's absolutely right. What? What Cove it has done is just accelerated the need for technology on farm and with our customers. And and certainly in the last few months, we've seen that accelerate tremendously, right? A t end of the day. Agriculture has been a technology first, um, industry for for hundreds of years, and and so we're seeing that take fold in the form of digital adoption, the use of analytics, the use of really unique sensor technologies like cameras and computer vision. Um, sound I liken it to the senses that we all have every day that we used to make decisions. Well, we're now seeing that adopted with our with our customers. And so it's a really interesting time, and I think an opportunity for for the industry to really move forward. >>I mean, in terms of the three in terms of the pandemic, you know, we we talked to a lot of customers. Howard just mentioned a survey. You certainly saw the pivot in tow work from home you know, increase in laptop momentum. And in Dell's business, we saw that you're seeing identity access, management, cloud security and point security. Even even VD I These were big tail winds early on. What did the pandemic due to your business and just in terms of your your priorities did you have to obviously shift to those things to support work from home? What happened to your digital transformation was was anything put on hold and is restarting. Can you just Yeah, I don't know what you could tell us about that, but anything you could describe and add some color to that narrative would be really helpful to our audience. >>Certainly. Yeah. You know, I think overnight we had, ah, workforce that went from being in the office toe working from home and and that just accelerated the need for for collaboration tools. Things like like teams and and Skype and Zoom have just taken off right? But also technologies that allow for virtual engagement, like white boarding and brainstorming sessions that we used to do in the office with customers and suppliers. We're now having to do in a virtual setting. So so that has just transformed how we do business on the customer. And, you know, technologies like computer vision and and sound really transform the need to to leverage labor differently. Right? One of the biggest challenges that the cove it has has placed is how labor interacts with animals and and with food production. And we've just seen a significant adoption of technology to help alleviate some of those stresses. >>Now you guys probably have seen the tongue in cheek cartoons, the covert wrecking ball, you know, the guys in the audience or the building saying digital transformation. Not on my watch in the cove, it comes in. I've often joked, uh, I guess we have to have a sense of humor in these times, but But if it ain't broke, don't fix it. We'll cove. It kind of broke everything. And Howard, when you think about digital transformation, yes, was going on before co vid. But But there are a lot of industries that hadn't been disrupted. I think about health care. I think about financial services. I think about defense. I mean, the list goes on unlike publishing, for instance, which got totally disrupted by the Internet. But now it seems like If you're not a digital business, you're out of business. Eso Are you seeing like virtually every industry adopting digital? Or are you seeing any trends that are different by industry? What are you seeing out there >>were absolutely seeing every company in every industry adopted in their own way, thinking through their business models. I mean, even think about what's happened in your local town. How technology is able enabled restaurants to dio, you know, uh, take out and delivery through digital tools, your local dry cleaner, your your local butcher and your baker. I mean, everybody's having toe be creative and reinvent. It's not just the, you know, large professional industrial financial services companies who are also reinventing. But I go back to what I said before what we're seeing. These trends were already underway. They've just been put into hyperspeed what folks were thinking about doing in two or three years we're doing into two or three months. The pivot toe work from home worldwide happened in two or three weeks, and it's not the crisis we planned for, but we're always preparing for the future. The groundwork was laid, and now it's just been accelerated. We're seeing it everywhere, including inside Adele. You know, I think about all the processes and the way we serve our employees, our customers and partners we've accelerated were adopting the product model within our own Del digital organization, for example, that's been accelerated. The move to multi cloud on having a cloud operating model no matter where the infrastructure has been accelerated. And you know, everything we've talked about on the client experience. Security models, networking model software, defined models, every every industry, every company has had to embrace this >>so sorry. I mean, I'm fascinated by your business. I mean again, I think a lot of people think of it as a real physical business. But there's so much data. You're the head of digital insights, which is You've got data running through your your entire operations. There's other things. There's there's double take words I see in your your background like aqua culture. So So how are you re imagining the future of your industry? >>That's Ah, that's a fascinating question, Dave. You know, think, Imagine this. You could listen to a shrimp eat and then turn that into unique insights about the feeding patterns on behaviors of shrimp, right? Who would have imagined 10 years ago that we would have technology that enabled us to do things like that? Right? And so, from aquaculture thio the dairy industry to, you know, grain origination. We're leveraging digital and data to really help our customers and producers make better, more informed decisions where in in the past it was really experience that allowed them toe be good farmers and and good stewards of our planet. Now we're using technology, so it's really an opportunity toe harness, the power of digital for our industry. >>Well, you know, and it's critical because we have people to feed and actually it's working. I mean, the yields that air coming out of the industry or are amazing. I know there's a lot of discussion now, but hey, you know, we're actually getting a lot of food to people. And now there's a discussion around nutrition that's that's front and center, and I presume technology and data fit in there as well. Three. I wonder if you could comment. >>Yeah, you know, by 2050 day there will be nearly 10 billion people on this planet. And to feed that growing population, we're gonna need 70% more protein on DSO. As you think about the impacts that that that growing population has on the planet. There's also, you know, nutrition. But think about sustainability. How do we how do we grow this food and get it from the place that it's produced to the place where it's consumed in a way that's a resource efficient and effective? So there's nutrition in just the middle class in Asia, you know, having a higher propensity to spend and dealing with that challenge on one end of the spectrum and then on the other end of the spectrum, being ableto really deal with with sustainability. >>I would have watched your career over the decades, and you've had so many roles, and I always used to joke with you. They give you the hardest problems if you want. If you want to get stuff done, you give it to the busiest guy. It was always Howard, you know, help us with with our own transformations. Help us do the integrations, whether it was m and a or the course, the largest in just >>industry I love a good challenge is you know, >>I do know and so I want to get. Get the update on Dell's own transformation. I've been talking to a number of your executives this week, and it looks like you know, you guys air, drinking your own champagne, dog food and whatever you wanna call it. But but bring us up to date on what you guys are doing internally. >>We are, and we're no different than any of our customers. And having Thio focus on our digital transformation agenda, I mentioned earlier the adoption of our product model, you know, moving from a project based Dell Digital and I T Organization to one that's a product model. So these are balanced teams with a product manager, a designer and developers working closely with the business and the function in an agile manner and the C I. C. D pipeline manner. And all of this again has been accelerated. We have our own del digital cloud, which is our hybrid cloud that we leverage internally. We're software defining everything, and it's really paying dividends because what we've seen literally in the last 6 to 8 months is higher levels of security, higher levels of availability, higher levels of resiliency. We've been able to handle all of the increased transactions on our e commerce engines, all at higher quality and lower costs. Now we the groundwork for this with Jen Felch in the team over the last couple of years, but again, by necessity, had to accelerate. And we've done that. And we're even moving faster now on data pipelines and really understanding all of our key processes and understanding the work flows and the data flows, working with machine learning and artificial intelligence again, exactly the way Cargill and other of our customers are doing in their businesses. I know you're talking or have talked to Doug Schmidt. You know, we've digitized and automated thousands of processes and our services organization Theobald bility on a remote basis to service our customers were we've invented new and innovative ways the service our customers remotely versus going on site, not just in break fix, deployment, remote change, management, manage services, consulting. It's just, you know, great to see all this wonderful innovation come together serving our customers. >>Thank you for that, Howard. And you, you said something that triggered me in a good way. Data pipelines. I use that term a lot. And three I wonder if you could talk about this because you're You guys have been around since the 18 hundreds, I think the largest privately held company in United States, I think, right, and probably close to one of the largest in the world. And so >>you >>got a lot of data and a lot of different places. So a huge challenge for you is okay. How do you manage those data pipelines? Those data, the data lifecycle, And I would think the company the size of cargo to the extent that you can reduce the end to end time it takes to go from raw data to insights E. That's gonna be telephone numbers for for your business and your bottom line that you can then reinvest and get back to customers, etcetera and be competitive. I wonder if you could talk about >>you >>know, that whole concept of the data pipeline And how are you using data and and some of the challenges of compressing that end to end cycle time and Leighton >>see, to >>get to insights >>that day. You know, Carlos, 155 year old company and and at our core were a supply chain company. Right? Um, you know, taking food from where it's produced, getting it through the manufacturing process, toe customers. And so at the end of the day, I I joked that not only are we have physical supply chain company, but we're also a data supply chain company. So the data value chain right is really about taking all the different inputs in data that we have in turning that into unique insights. And I don't think there's ah company on the planet in the food space that has the ability to connect those dots in the way that we dio. And so our ability to create unique, actionable insights for our customers is going to be really powerful, especially in the in the coming years. >>So talk about let's talk about Dell a little bit. I always ask, uh, technology leaders how your vendors doing for you? How did they help you through the pandemic? How would you grade del uh, in terms of its support through the pandemic? >>Dell has been absolutely fantastic, right? I mean, I think it is really need to have partners like Dell helping us achieve our mission for our customers. And I know they feel that way about us as their customers. So it's really wonderful. Toe have the type of collaboration and partnership that we do. >>Alright, Howard, Same question for you. How would you grade Del Onda? How you guys have done through the through the pandemic with regard to supporting your customers. I mean, you're you're never one toe overhype, uh, in my experience with you. But give us the your take. >>Why would grade del by what our customers say? And we do it both through direct conversations as well as the data and telemetry we get and the data and telemetry we have in terms of our NPS r R C sat scores or service level objectives that were delivering all have remained in profile. The team has really risen to the occasion. Been super creative, passionate, full of grit. We heard Alison and Angela talk about that the Dell Technologies world this morning, and our team is embodied that spirit and that great to be able to deliver. But in the conversations we're having with customers three and his peers, uh, you know, look, it's it's been a challenging time, but as you know, Dell has always focused on delivering value for the long term. We're not in it for the short term, and that has served us well. That philosophy Theobald active. We have with working with customers, eyes always about what's in the best interests of our customers in the long term. Because if we do that, it will ultimately be in the best interest of Dell. >>Well, it's It's been amazing to just watch. I mean, it's just ironic that we got hit with this at the beginning of this decade. It's gonna It's obviously gonna define. You know what we do going forward. I think we've all talked about it. It's funny. Everybody in our business and the technology business. We've become covert experts in some way, shape or form overnight. But we've talked a lot about the the things that we see as as permanent, and I think that >>you >>know you clearly the your two companies are examples of agility leaning into technology. And, as you said, Howard here for the long term, 155 years old, I think story said so well, here's to another 155 years. Gentlemen, thanks so much for coming to Cuba. Awesome guests. >>Thanks. Day. Appreciate it. >>Thank you for watching everybody. Our continuing coverage of Dell Technologies World 2020. You're watching the Cube?

(bright music) >> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Dell Technologies World Digital Experience. Brought to you by Dell Technologies. >> Hello, and welcome back to theCUBE's virtual coverage of Dell Technologies World Digital Experience. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE here for this interview. We're not face to face this year, we're remote because of the pandemic. We've got a great guest, CUBE alumni, John Roese who's the Global Chief Technology Officer at Dell Technologies. John, great to see you. Thank you for remoting in from New Hampshire. Thanks for your time and thanks for coming on. >> Oh, glad to be here. Glad to be here from New Hampshire. The travel is a lot easier this way so-- >> It's been an interesting time. What a year it's been with the pandemic, the good, bad, and the ugly has been playing out. But if you look at the role of technology, the big theme this year at Dell Technologies World is the digital transformation acceleration. Everyone is kind of talking about that, but when you unpack the technology side of it, you're seeing a technology enablement theme that is just unprecedented from an acceleration standpoint. COVID has forced people to look at things that they never had to look at before. Disruption to business models and business systems like working at home. (Furrier laughs) Who would have forecasted that kind of disruption. Workloads changing, workforces working differently with in the mid of things. So an absolute exposure to the core issues and challenges that need to be worked on and double down on. And some cases, projects that might not have been as a priority. So you have all of this going on, customers really trying to double down on the things that are working, the things they need to fix, so they can come out of the pandemic with a growth strategy with modern apps, with cloud and hybrid and multicloud. This has been a huge forcing function. I'd love to get your first reaction to that big wave. >> Yeah, no, no, I think as a technologist, sometimes you can see the future maybe a little clearer than the business people can. Because there's one thing about technology, it either is, or it isn't. Either is code or hardware and real or it's marketing. And we knew the technology evolution was occurring, we knew the multicloud world was real, we knew that machine intelligence was real. And we've been working on this for maybe decades. But prior to COVID, many of these areas were still considered risky or speculative. And people couldn't quite grok exactly why they wanted a machine doing work on their behalf or why they might want an AI to be a participant in their collaboration sessions or why they might want an autonomous vehicle at all. And we were talking about how many people autonomous vehicles that were going to kill as opposed to how many that we're going to help. Then we had COVID. And suddenly we realized that the fragility of our physical world and the need for digital is much higher. And so it's actually opened up an enormous accelerant on people's willingness to embrace new technologies. And so whether it's a predictable acceleration of machine intelligence or autonomous systems, or this realization that the cloud world is actually more than one answer, there's multiple clouds working together. Because if you try to do a digital transformation acceleration, you realize that it's not one problem. It's many, many problems all working together, and then you discover that, hey, some of these can be solved with cloud one and some can be solving with cloud two, and some of them you want to do in your own infrastructure, in a private cloud, and some might belong at the edge. And then suddenly you come to this conclusion that, hey, having strategy has to deal with this system as a system. And so across the board, COVID has been an interesting catalyst to get people to really think practically about the technology available to them and how they might be able to take advantage of it quicker. And that's a mixed blessing for us technologists because they want things sooner, and that means we have to do more engineering. But at the same time, open-minded consumers of technology are very helpful in digital transformations. >> Well, I want to unpack that rethinking with COVID and post COVID. I mean, everything is going to come down to before COVID and after COVID world. I think it's going to be the demarcation that's going to be looked at historically. Before we get into that though, I want to get your thoughts on some of the key pillars of these transformational technologies in play today. Last year at Dell World, when we were physically face to face, we were laying out on theCUBE and in our analysis, the Dell Technologies has got an end to end view. You saw a little bit at VMworld this year, the Project Monterey, is looking much more systematically across the board. You mentioned systems as consequences. The reaction of changes. But lay out for us the key areas, the key pillars of the transformational technologies that customers need to look at now to drive the digital path. >> Yeah, we cast a very wide net. We look at literally thousands of technologies, we organize them and we try to understand and predict which ones are going to matter. And it turns out that over the last couple of years, we figured out there's really six, what I'll call expanding technology areas that are actually probably likely to be necessary for almost any digital transformation. And they aren't exactly what people have been doing historically. So in no particular order, and they may sound obvious, but when you think about your future, it's very likely all six of these are going to touch you. The first is, the obvious one of being able to develop and deliver a multicloud. The cloud journey is by no means done. We are at like the second inning of a nine inning game, maybe even earlier. We have barely created the multiple cloud world, much less the true multicloud world, and then really exploiting and automating has work to be done. But that's a strategic area for us and everybody to navigate forward. In parallel to that, what we realize is that multiple cloud is no longer just present in data centers and public clouds, it's actually existing in the real world. So this idea of edge, the reconstituting of IT out in the real world to deliver the real time behavior necessary to actually serve what we predict will be about 70% of the world's data that will happen outside of data centers. The third is 5G. And that's a very specific technology, and I have a long telco background. I was the CTO of one of the largest telecom companies in the world and I was involved in 2G, 3G and 4G. (Furrier chuckles) 5G is not another G. It is not just faster 4G. It does that, but with things like massive machine type communication with having a million sensorized devices in a kilometer or ultra reliable, low latency communication. The ability to get preferential services to critical streams of data across the infrastructure, mobile edge compute, putting the edge IT out into the cellular environment. And the fact that it's built in the cloud and IT era. So it's programmable, software defined. 5G is going to go from being an outside of the IT discussion to being the fabric inside the IT discussion. And so I will bet that anybody who has people in the real world and that they're trying to deliver a digital experience, will have to take advantage of the capabilities of 5G to do it right. But super strategic important area for Dell and for our industry. Continuing on, we have the data world, the data management world. It's funny, we've been doing data as an industry for a very long time, but the world we were in was the data at rest world, databases, data lakes, traditional applications. And that's great. It still matters, but this new world of data in motion is beginning. And what that means is the data is now moving into pipelines. We're not moving it somewhere and then figuring it out, we're figuring it out as the data flows across this multicloud environment. And that requires an entirely different tool, chain, architecture and infrastructure. But it's incredibly important because it's actually the thing that powers most digital transformation if they're real time. In parallel to that, number five on the list is AI and machine learning. And we have a controversial view on this. We don't view AI as purely a technology. It clearly is a technology, but what we really think customers should think about it as is as a new class of user. Because AIs are actually some of the most aggressive producers and consumers of data and consumers of IT infrastructure. We actually estimate that within the next four or five years, the majority of IT capacity in an enterprise environment will actually be consumed at the behest of the machine learning algorithm or an AI system than a traditional application or person. And all you have to do is do one AI project to understand that I'm correct, because they are just massive demand drivers for your infrastructure, but they have massive return on that demand. They give you things you can't do without them. And then last on the list is this area of security. And to be candid, we have really messed up this area as an industry. We have a security product for every problem, we have proliferation of security technologies. And to make matters worse, we now operate most enterprises on the assumption the bad guys are already inside and we're doing things to prevent them from causing harm. Now, if that's all it is, we really lost this one. So we have an obligation to reverse this trend, to start moving back to embedding the security and the infrastructure with intrinsic security, with zero trust models, with things like SASSY, which is basically creating new models of the edge security paradigm to be more agile and software defined. But most importantly, we have to pull it all together and say, "You know what we're really measuring is the trustworthiness "of the systems we work with, "not the individual components." So this elevation of security to trust is going to be a big journey for all of us. And every one of those six are individual areas, but when you combine them, they actually describe the foundation of a digital transformation. And so it's important for people to be aware of them, it's important for companies like Dell to be very active in all of them, because ultimately what you have today, plus those six properly executed, is the digital transformation outcome that most people are heading towards. >> You just packed it all six pillars into one soundbite. That was awesome. Great insight there. One of the things that's interesting, you mentioned AI. I love that piece around AI being a consumer. They are a consumer of data, they're also a consumer of what used to be handled by either systems or humans. That's interesting. 5G is another one. Pat Gelsinger has said at VMworld that 5G, and when I interviewed him he said 5G is a business app, not a consumer app. Yet, if you look at the recent iPhone announcement by Apple, iPhone 12, and iPhone 12 Pro, 5G is at the center of that announcement. But they're taking it from a different perspective. That's a real world application. They've got the watch, they have new chips in their devices, huge advantage. It's not just bandwidth. And remember the original iPhone launch with 3G if you remember. That made the iPhone. Some are saying if it didn't have the 3G or 2G and 3G, I think it was 3G in the first iPhone. 3G, it would have not been as successful. So again, Apple is endorsing 5G. Gelsinger talks about it as a business app. Double down on that, because I think 5G will highlight some of the COVID issues because people are working at home. They're on the go. They want to do video conferencing. Maybe they want to do this programmable. Unpack the importance of 5G as an enabler and as an IT component. >> Yeah. As I mentioned, 5G isn't just about enhanced mobile broadband which is faster YouTube. It's about much more than that. And because of that combination of technologies, it becomes the connective tissue for almost every digital transformation. So our view by the way, just to give you the Dell official position, we actually view that the 5G or the telecom industry is going through three phases around 5G. The first phase has already happened. It was an early deployment of 5G using traditional technology. It was just 5G as an extension of the 4G environment. That's great, it's out there. There's a phase that we're in right now, which I call the geopolitical phase, where all of a sudden, everybody from companies to countries to industries have realized this is really important. And we have to figure out how to make sure we have a secure source of supply that is based on the best technology. And that has created an interest by people like Dell and VMware and Microsoft, and many other companies to say, "Wait a minute. "This isn't just a telecom thing. "This is, as Pat said a business system. "This is part of the core of all digital." And so that's pulled people like Dell and others more aggressively into the telecom world in this middle phase. But what really is happening is the third phase. And the third phase is a recasting of the architecture of telecom to make it much more like the cloud and IT world. To separate hardware from software, to implemented software defined principles, to putting machine interfaces, to treat it like a cloud and IT system architecturally. And that's where things like OpenRAN, integrated open networks, and these new initiatives are coming into play. All of that from Dell perspective is fantastic because what it says is the telecom world is heading towards companies like us. And so, as you may know, we set up a brand new telecom business at scale up here to our other businesses this year. We already are doing billions of dollars in telecom, but now we believe we should be playing a meaningful tier-one role in this modern telecom ecosystem. It will be a team sport. There's lots of other players we have to work with. But because of the breadth of applications of 5G. And whether it's again, an iPhone with 5G is great to do YouTube, but it's incredibly powerful if you run your business applications on there, and what you want to actually deliver is an immersive augmented experience. So without 5G, it will be very hard to do that. So it becomes a new and improved client. We announced a Latitude 9,000 Series, and we're one of the first to put out a 5G enabled laptop. In certain parts of the world, we're now starting to ship these. Well again, when you have access to millimeter wave and gigabit speed capacity, you can do some really interesting things on that device, more oriented towards what we call collaborative computing which the client device and the adjacent infrastructure have so much bandwidth between them, that they look like one system. And they can share the burden of augmented reality, of data processing, of AI processing all in the real time domain. Carry that a little further, and when we get into the areas like healthcare transformation or educational transformation. What we realize immediately is reach is everything. You want to have a premium broadband experience, and you need a better system to do that. But really the thing that has to happen is not just a Zoom call, but an immersive experience in which a combination of low bandwidth, always on sensors are able to send their data streams back. But also, if you want to have a more immersive experience to really exploit your health situation, being able to do it with holography and other tools, which require a lot more bandwidth is critical. So no matter where you go in a digital transformation in the real world that has real people and things out in the real world involved in it, the digital fabric for connectivity is critical. And you suddenly realize the current architecture's pre-5G aren't sufficient. And so 5G becomes this linchpin to basically make sure that the client and the cloud and the data center all have a framework that they can actually work together without, let's call it a buffering resistance between them called the network. Imagine if the network was an enabler, not an impediment. >> Yeah, I think you're on point here. I think this is really teases out to me the next-gen business transformation, digital transformation because if you think about what you just talked about, connective tissue, linchpin with 5G, data as a driver, multicloud, the six pillars you laid out, and you mentioned systems, connective tissue systems. I mean, you're basically talking tech under the hood like operating system mindset. These systems design are interesting. If you put the pieces together, you can create business value. Not so much speeds and feeds, business value. You mentioned telco cloud. I find that fascinating. I've been saying on theCUBE for years, and I think it's finally playing out. I want to get your reactions of this is, this rise of the specialty cloud. I called it tier-one on the power law kind of the second wave of cloud. Look at Snowflake. They went public. Biggest IPO in the history of the New York Stock Exchange of Wall Street, second to VMware. They built on Amazon. (Furrier laughs) Okay. You have the telco cloud, we have theCUBE cloud, we have the media cloud. So you're seeing businesses looking at the cloud as a business model opportunity, not just buying gear to run something faster, right? So you're getting at something here where it's real benefits are now materializing and are now visible. First of all, do you agree with that? I'm sure you do. I'd love to get your thoughts on that. And if you do, how do companies put this together? Because you need software, you got to have the power source with cloud. What's your reaction to that? >> Absolutely. I think, now obviously there are many clouds. We have some mega clouds out there and then we have lots of other specialty clouds. And by the way, sometimes you remember we view cloud as an operating model, an experience, a way to present an IT service. How it's implemented is less important than what it looks like to the user. Your example of Snowflake. I don't view Snowflake as AWS. I view Snowflake as a storage business. (Furrier chuckles) >> It's a business. >> It's a business cloud. I mean, they could lift it up and move it onto another cloud infrastructure and still be Snowflake. So, as we look forward, we do see more of the consumables that we're going to use and digital transformation appearing as these cloud services. Sometimes they're SaaS cloud, sometimes they're an infrastructure cloud, sometimes they're a private cloud. One of the most interesting ones though that we see that hasn't happened yet is the edge clouds that are going to form. Edge is different. It's in the real time domain, it's distributed. If you do it at scale, it might look like massive amounts of capacity, but it isn't infinite in one place. Public cloud is infinite capacity all in one place. An edge cloud is infinite capacity distributed across 50,000 points of presence at which each of them has a finite amount of capacity. And the other difference though, is that edge clouds tend to live in the real time domain. So 30 millisecond round trip latency. Well, the reason this one's exciting to me is that when you think about what happened at the software and business model innovation, when for instance public clouds and even co-location became more accessible, companies who had this idea that needed a very large capacity of infrastructure that could be consumed as a service suddenly came into existence. Salesforce.com go through the laundry list. But all of those examples were non-real time functions because the clouds they were built on were non-real time clouds if you take them in the end to end, in the system perspective. We know that there are going to be both from the telecom operators and from cloud providers and co-location providers, and even enterprises, a proliferation of infrastructure out in the real time domain called edges. And those are going to be organized and delivered as cloud services. They're going to be pools of flexible elastic capacity. What excites me is suddenly we're going to spawn a level of innovation, where people who had this great idea that they needed to access cloud light capacity, but they ran into the problem that the capacity was too far away from the time domain they needed to operate. And we've already seen some examples of this in AR and VR. Autonomous vehicles require a real time cloud near the car, which doesn't exist yet. When we think about things like smart cities and smart factories, they really need to have that cloud capacity in the time domain that matters if they want to be a real time control system. And so, I don't know exactly what the innovation is going to be, but when you see a new capability show up, in this case, it's inevitable that we're going to see pools of elastic, consumable capacity in the real time environment as edges start to form. It's going to spawn another innovation cycle that could be as big as what happened in the public cloud environment for non-real time. >> Well, I think that's a great point in time series. Databases for one would be one instant innovation. You mentioned data, data management, time is valuable to the latency and this maybe not viable after if you're a car, right? So you pass them. So again, all different concepts. And the one thing that, first of all, I agree with you on this whole cloud thing. A nice edge cloud is going to develop nicely. But the question there is it's going to be software defined, agreed. Security, data, you've got databases, you've got software operated. You mentioned security being broken, and security product for every problem. And you want to bake it in, intrinsic or whatever you call it these days. How do you get the security model? Because you've got access. Do you federate that? How do you build in security at that level? Whether it's a space satellite or a moving vehicle, the edge is the edge. So what's your thoughts on security as you're looking at this mobility, this agility is horizontally scalable distributed system. What's the security paradigm? >> Well the first thing, it has nothing to do with security, but impacts your security outcome in a meaningful way when you talk about the edge. And that is, we have got to stop getting confused that an edge is a single monolithic thing. And we have got to start understanding that an edge is actually a combination of two things. It is a platform that will provide the capacity and a workload that will do the job, the code. And today, what we find is many people are advocating for edges are actually delivering an end to end stack that includes bespoke hardware, its infrastructure, and the workloads and capabilities. If that happens, we end up with 1,000 black boxes that all do one thing, which doesn't make any sense out in the real world. So the minute you shift to what the edge is really going to be, which is a combination of edge platforms and edge workloads, you start your journey towards a better security model. First thing that happens is you can secure and make a high integrity the edge platform. You can make sure that that platform has a hardware to trust, that it operates potentially in a zero trust model, that it has survivability and resiliency, but it doesn't really care what's running on it as much as it has to be stable. Now if you get that one right, now at least you have a stable platform between your public and private environments and the edge. At the workload level though, now you have to think about, well, edge workloads actually should not be bloated. They should not be extremely large scale because there's not enough capacity at the edge. So concepts like SASSY is a good example, which is one of the analyst firms that coined that term. But I like the concept, which is, hey, what if at the edge you're delivering the workload, but the workload is protected by a bunch of cloud-oriented security services that effectively are presented as part of the service chain? So you don't have to have your own firewall built into every workload because you're in an edge architecture, you can use virtual firewalling that's coming to you as a software service, or you can use the SDN, the service chain it into the networking path, and then you can provide deep packet inspection and other services. It all goes back to this idea that, when you deal with the edge, first and foremost, you have to have a reliable stable platform to guarantee a robust foundation. And that is an infrastructure security problem. But then you have to basically deal with the security problems of the workload in a different way than you do it in a data center. In a data center, you have infinite computing. You can put all kinds of appendages on your code, and it's fine because there's just more compute next to you. In the edge, we have to keep the code pure. It has to be an analytics engine or an AI engine for systems control in a factory. And the security services actually have to be a function of the end to end path. More likely delivered as software services slightly upstream. That architectural shift is not something people have figured out yet. But if we get it right, now we actually have a modern, zero trust distributed, software defined, service changeable, dynamic security architecture, which is a much better approach to an intrinsic security than trying to just hard-code the security into the workload and tie it to the platform which never has worked. So we're going to have to have a pretty big rethink to get through this. But for me, it's pretty clear what we have to do. >> Now I'd say that's good observation. Great insight. I'll just double down and ask a followup on that. I get that. I see where you're going with that software defined, software operated service. I love the SASSY concept. We've covered it. But the edge is still purpose-built devices. I mean, we've talked about an iPhone, and you're talking about a watch, you're talking about a space module, whatever it is at the edge on a tower, it could be a radio. I mean, whatever it is, you seem to have purpose-built hardware. You mentioned this root of trust. That'll kind of never kind of go away. You're going to have that. What's your thoughts on that as someone who realizes I got to harden the edge, at least from a hardware standpoint, but I want to be enabled for self-defined. I don't want to have a product be purpose-built and then be obsolete in a year. Because that's again the challenge of supply chain management, building hardware. What's your thoughts on that? >> Yeah. Our edge strategy, we double click a little bit is different than the strategy to build for a data center. We want consistency between them, but there's actually five areas of edge that actually are specific to it. The first is the hardware platform itself. Edge hardware platforms are different than the platforms you put in data centers, whether it be a client or the infrastructure underneath it. And so we're already building hardened devices and devices that are optimized for power and cooling and space constraints in that environment. The second is the runtime on that system is likely to be different. Today we use the V Cloud Foundation where that works very well, but as you get smaller and smaller and further away, you have to miniaturize and reduce the footprint. The control plane, we would like to make that consistent. We are using Tanzu and Dell Technologies Cloud Platform to extend out to the edge. And we think that having a consistent control plan is important, but the way you adapt something like Tanzu from the edge is different because it's in a different place. The fourth is life cycle, which is really about how you secure, how you deploy, how you deal with day two operations. There's no IT person out at the edge, so you're not in a data center. So you have to automate those systems and deal with them in a different way. And then lastly, the way you package an edge solution and deliver it is much different than the way you build a data center. You actually don't want to deal with those four things I just described as individual snowflakes. You want them packaged and delivered as an outcome. And that's why more and more of the edge platform offerings are really cloudlets or they're a platform that you can use to extend your IT capacity without having to think about Kubernetes versus VMs versus other things. It's just part of the infrastructure. So all of that tells us that edge is different enough, that the way you designed for it, the way you implement it, and even the life cycle, it has to take into account that it's not in a data center. The trick is to then turn that into an extended multicloud where the control plane is consistent, or when you push code into production with Kubernetes, you can choose to land that container in a data center or push it out to the edge. So you have both a system consistency goal, but also the specialization of the edge environment. Everything from hardware, to control plane, to lifecycle, that's the reality of how these things have to be built. >> That's a great point. It's a systems architecture, whether you're looking at from the bottoms up component level to top down kind of policy and or software defined. So great insight. I wish we had more time. I'd love to get you back and talk about data. We were talking before you came on camera about data. But quickly before we go, your thoughts on AI and the consequences of AI. AI is a consumer. I love that insight. Totally agree. Certainly it's an application. Technology is kind of horizontal. It can be vertically specialized with data. What's your thoughts on how AI can be better for society and some of the unintended consequences that we manage that. >> Yeah, I'm an optimist. I actually, we've worked with enough AI systems for long enough to see the benefit. Every one of Dell's products today has machine intelligence inside of it. So we can exceed the potential of its hardware and software without it. It's a very powerful tool. And it does things that human beings just simply can't do. I truly believe that it's the catalyst for the next wave of business process functionality, of new innovation. So it's definitely not something to stay away from. That being said, we don't know exactly how it can go wrong. And we know that there are examples where corrupted or bad bias data could influence it and have a bad outcome. And there are an infinite set of problems to go solve with AI, but there are ones that are a little dangerous to go pursue if you're not sure. And so our advice to customers today is, look, you do not need to build The Terminator to get advantage from AI. You can do something much simpler. In fact, in most enterprise context, we believe that the best path is go look at your existing business processes, where there is a decision that's made by a human being, and it's an inefficient decision. And if you can locate those points where a supply chain decision or an engineering decision or a testing decision is done by human beings poorly, and you can use machine intelligence to improve it by five or 10%, you will get a significant material impact on your business if you go after the right processes. At Dell we're doing a ton of AI and machine learning in our supply chain. Why is that important? Well, we happen to have the largest tech supply chain in the world. If we improve it by 1%, it's a gigantic impact on the company. And so our advice to people is you don't have to build man autonomous car. You don't have to build The Terminator. You can apply it much more tactically in spaces that are much safer. Even in the HR examples, we tell our HR people, "Hey, use it for things like performance management "and simplifying the processing of data. "Don't use it to hire a bot." That's a little dangerous right now. Because you might inadvertently introduce racism or sexism into that, and we still have some work to do there. So it's a very large surface area. Go where the safe areas are. It'll keep you busy for the next several years, improving your business in dramatic ways. And as we improve the technology for bias correction and management of AI systems and fault tolerance and simplicity, then go after the hard one. So this is a great one. Go after the easy stuff. You'll get a big benefit and you won't take the risk. >> You get the low hanging fruit learn, iterate through it. I'm glad you guys are using machine learning and AI in the supply chain. Make sure it's secure, big issue. I know you guys were on top of it and have a great operation there. John, great to have you on. John Roese, the Global Chief Technology Officer at Dell Technologies. Great to have you on. Take a minute to close out the last minute here. What's the most important story from Dell Technologies World this year? I know it's virtual. It's not face to face. But beyond that, what's the big takeaway in your mind, if you could share one point, what would it be for the folks watching? >> Yeah, I think the biggest point is something we talked about, which is we are in a period of digital transformation acceleration. COVID is bad, but it woke us up to the possibilities and the need for digital transformation. And so if you were on the fence or if you're moving slowly and now you have an opportunity to move fast. However, moving fast is hard if you try to do it by yourself. And so we've structured Dell, we've the six big areas we're focused on. They only have one purpose, it's to build the modern infrastructure platforms to enable digital transformation to happen faster. And my advice to people is, great. You're moving faster. Pick your partners well. Choose the people that you want to go on the journey with. And we think we're well positioned for that. And you will have much better progress if you take a broad view of the technology ecosystem and you've lightened up the appropriate partnerships with the people that can help you get there. And the outcome is a successful digital leader just is going to handle things like COVID and ease disruption better than a digital laggard. And we now have the data to prove that. So it's all about digital acceleration is the punchline. >> Well great to have you on. Great segment, great insight. And thank you for sharing the six pillars and the conversation. Super relevant on what's going on to create new business value, new opportunities for businesses and society. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (bright music)