(upbeat music) >> Hey everyone, welcome to this CUBE conversation. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE here in Palo Alto, California. We've got Sam Kassoumeh, co-founder and chief operating office at SecurityScorecard here remotely coming in. Thanks for coming on Sam. Security, Sam. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you, John. Thanks for having me. >> Love the security conversations. I love what you guys are doing. I think this idea of managed services, SaaS. Developers love it. Operation teams love getting into tools easily and having values what you guys got with SecurityScorecard. So let's get into what we were talking before we came on. You guys have a unique solution around ratings, but also it's not your grandfather's pen test want to be security app. Take us through what you guys are doing at SecurityScorecard. >> Yeah. So just like you said, it's not a point in time assessment and it's similar to a traditional credit rating, but also a little bit different. You can really think about it in three steps. In step one, what we're doing is we're doing threat intelligence data collection. We invest really heavily into R&D function. We never stop investing in R&D. We collect all of our own data across the entire IPV force space. All of the different layers. Some of the data we collect is pretty straightforward. We might crawl a website like the example I was giving. We might crawl a website and see that the website says copyright 2005, but we know it's 2022. Now, while that signal isn't enough to go hack and break into the company, it's definitely a signal that someone might not be keeping things up to date. And if a hacker saw that it might encourage them to dig deeper. To more complex signals where we're running one of the largest DNS single infrastructures in the world. We're monitoring command and control malware and its behaviors. We're essentially collecting signals and vulnerabilities from the entire IPV force space, the entire network layer, the entire web app player, leaked credentials. Everything that we think about when we talk about the security onion, we collect data at each one of those layers of the onion. That's step one. And we can do all sorts of interesting insights and information and reports just out of that thread intel. Now, step two is really interesting. What we do is we go identify the attack surface area or what we call the digital footprint of any company in the world. So as a customer, you can simply type in the name of a company and we identify all of the domains, sub domains, subsidiaries, organizations that are identified on the internet that belong to that organization. So every digital asset of every company we go out and we identify that and we update that every 24 hours. And step three is the rating. The rating is probabilistic and it's deterministic. The rating is a benchmark. We're looking at companies compared to their peers of similar size within the same industry and we're looking at how they're performing. And it's probabilistic in the sense that companies that have an F are about seven to eight times more likely to experience a breach. We're an A through F scale, universally understood. Ds and Fs, more likely to experience a breach. A's we see less breaches now. Like I was mentioning before, it doesn't mean that an F is always going to get hacked or an A can never get hacked. If a nation state targets an A, they're going to eventually get in with enough persistence and budget. If the pizza shop on the corner has an F, they may never get hacked because no one cares, but natural correlation, more doors open to the house equals higher likelihood someone unauthorized is going to walk in. So it's really those three steps. The collection, we map it to the surface area of the company and then we produce a rating. Today we're rating about 12 million companies every single day. >> And how many people do you have as customers? >> We have 50,000 organizations using us, both free and paid. We have a freemium tier where just like Yelp or a LinkedIn business profile. Any company in the world has a right to go claim the score. We never extort companies to fix the score. We never charge a company to see the score or fix it. Any company in a world without paying us a cent can go in. They can understand what we're seeing about them, what a hacker could see about their environment. And then we empower them with the tools to fix it and they can fix it and the score will go up. Now companies pay us because they want enterprise capabilities. They want additional modules, insights, which we can talk about. But in total, there's about 50,000 companies that at any given point in time, they're monitoring about a million and a half organizations of the 12 million that we're rating. It sounds like Google. >> If you want to look at it. >> Sounds like Google Search you got going on there. You got a lot of search and then you create relevance, a score, like a ranking. >> That's precisely it. And that's exactly why Google ventures invested in us in our Series B round. And they're on our board. They looked and they said, wow, you guys are building like a Google Search engine over some really impressive threat intelligence. And then you're distilling it into a score which anybody in the world can easily understand. >> Yeah. You obviously have page rank, which changed the organic search business in the late 90s, early 2000s and the rest is history. AdWords. >> Yeah. >> So you got a lot of customer growth there potentially with the opt-in customer view, but you're looking at this from the outside in. You're looking at companies and saying, what's your security posture? Getting a feel for what they got going on and giving them scores. It sounds like it's not like a hacker proof. It's just more of a indicator for management and the team. >> It's an indicator. It's an indicator. Because today, when we go look at our vendors, business partners, third parties were flying blind. We have no idea how they're doing, how they're performing. So the status quo for the last 20 years has been perform a risk assessments, send a questionnaire, ask for a pen test and an audit evidence. We're trying to break that cycle. Nobody enjoys it. They're long tail. It's a trust without verification. We don't really like that. So we think we can evolve beyond this point in time assessment and give a continuous view. Now, today, historically, we've been outside in. Not intrusive, and we'll show you what a hacker can see about an environment, but we have some cool things percolating under the hood that give more of a 360 view outside, inside, and also a regulatory compliance view as well. >> Why is the compliance of the whole third party thing that you're engaging with important? Because I mean, obviously having some sort of way to say, who am I dealing with is important. I mean, we hear all kinds of things in the security landscape, oh, zero trust, and then we hear trust, supply chain, software risk, for example. There's a huge trust factor there. I need to trust this tool or this container. And then you got the zero trust, don't trust anything. And then you've got trust and verify. So you have all these different models and postures, and it just seems hard to keep up with. >> Sam: It's so hard. >> Take us through what that means 'cause pen tests, SOC reports. I mean the clouds help with the SOC report, but if you're doing agile, anything DevOps, you basically would need to do a pen test like every minute. >> It's impossible. The market shifted to the cloud. We watched and it still is. And that created a lot of complexity, not to date myself. But when I was starting off as a security practitioner, the data center used to be in the basement and I would have lunch with the database administrator and we talk about how we were protecting the data. Those days are long gone. We outsource a lot of our key business practices. We might use, for example, ADP for a payroll provider or Dropbox to store our data. But we've shifted and we no longer no who that person is that's protecting our data. They're sitting in another company in another area unknown. And I think about 10, 15 years ago, CISOs had the realization, Hey, wait a second. I'm relying on that third party to function and operate and protect my data, but I don't have any insight, visibility or control of their program. And we were recommended to use questionnaires and audit forms, and those are great. It's good hygiene. It's good practice. Get to know the people that are protecting your data, ask them the questions, get the evidence. The challenge is it's point in time, it's limited. Sometimes the information is inaccurate. Not intentionally, I don't think people intentionally want to go lie, but Hey, if there's a $50 million deal we're trying to close and it's dependent on checking this one box, someone might bend a rule a little bit. >> And I said on theCUBE publicly that I think pen test reports are probably being fudged and dates being replicated because it's just too fast. And again, today's world is about velocity on developers, trust on the code. So you got all kinds of trust issues. So I think verification, the blue check mark on Twitter kind of thing going on, you're going to see a lot more of that and I think this is just the beginning. I think what you guys are doing is scratching the surface. I think this outside in is a good first step, but that's not going to solve the internal problem that still coming and have big surface areas. So you got more surface area expanding. I mean, IOT's coming in, the Edge is coming fast. Never mind hybrid on-premise cloud. What's your organizations do to evaluate the risk and the third party? Hands shaking, verification, scorecards. Is it like a free look here or is it more depth to it? Do you double click on it? Take us through how this evolves. >> John it's become so disparate and so complex, Because in addition to the market moving to the cloud, we're now completely decentralized. People are working from home or working hybrid, which adds more endpoints. Then what we've learned over time is that it's not just a third party problem, because guess what? My third parties behind the scenes are also using third parties. So while I might be relying on them to process my customer's payment information, they're relying on 20 vendors behind the scene that I don't even know about. I might have an A, they might have an A. It's really important that we expand beyond that. So coming out of our innovation hub, we've developed a number of key capabilities that allow us to expand the value for the customer. One, you mentioned, outside in is great, but it's limited. We can see what a hacker sees and that's helpful. It gives us pointers where to maybe go ask double click, get comfort, but there's a whole nother world going on behind the firewall inside of an organization. And there might be a lot of good things going on that CISO security teams need to be rewarded for. So we built an inside module and component that allows teams to start plugging in the tools, the capabilities, keys to their cloud environments. And that can show anybody who's looking at the scorecard. It's less like a credit score and more like a social platform where we can go and look at someone's profile and say, Hey, how are things going on the inside? Do they have two-factor off? Are there cloud instances configured correctly? And it's not a point in time. This is a live connection that's being made. This is any point in time, we can validate that. The other component that we created is called an evidence locker. And an evidence locker, it's like a secure vault in my scorecard and it allows me to upload things that you don't really stand for or check for. Collateral, compliance paperwork, SOC 2 reports. Those things that I always begrudgingly email. I don't want to share with people my trade secrets, my security policies, and have it sit on their exchange server. So instead of having to email the same documents out, 300 times a month, I just upload them to my evidence locker. And what's great is now anybody following my scorecard can proactively see all the great things I'm doing. They see the outside view. They see the inside view. They see the compliance view. And now they have the holy grail view of my environment and can have a more intelligent conversation. >> Access to data and access methods are an interesting innovation area around data lineage. Tracing is becoming a big thing. We're seeing that. I was just talking with the Snowflake co-founder the other day here in theCUBE about data access and they're building a proprietary mesh on top of the clouds to figure out, Hey, I don't want to give just some tool access to data because I don't know what's on the other side of those tools. Now they had a robust ecosystem. So I can see this whole vendor risk supply chain challenge around integration as a huge problem space that you guys are attacking. What's your reaction to that? >> Yeah. Integration is tricky because we want to be really particular about who we allow access into our environment or where we're punching holes in the firewall and piping data out out of the environment. And that can quickly become unwieldy just with the control that we have. Now, if we give access to a third party, we then don't have any control over who they're sharing our information with. When I talk to CISOs today about this challenge, a lot of folks are scratching their head, a lot of folks treat this as a pet project. Like how do I control the larger span beyond just the third parties? How do I know that their software partners, their contractors that they're working with building their tools are doing a good job? And even if I know, meaning, John, you might send me a list of all of your vendors. I don't want to be the bad guy. I don't really have the right to go reach out to my vendors' vendors knocking on their door saying, hi, I'm Sam. I'm working with John and he's your customer. And I need to make sure that you're protecting my data. It's an awkward chain of conversation. So we're building some tools that help the security teams hold the entire ecosystem accountable. We actually have a capability called automatic vendor discovery. We can go detect who are the vendors of a company based on the connections that we see, the inbound and outbound connections. And what often ends up happening John is we're bringing to the attention to our customers, awareness about inbound and outbound connections. They had no idea existed. There were the shadow IT and the ghost vendors that were signed without going through an assessment. We detect those connections and then they can go triage and reduce the risk accordingly. >> I think that risk assessment of vendors is key. I was just reading a story about this, about how a percentage, I forget the number. It was pretty large of applications that aren't even being used that are still on in companies. And that becomes a safe haven for bad actors to hang out and penetrate 'cause they get overlooked 'cause no one's using them, but they're still online. And so there's a whole, I called cleaning up the old dead applications that are still connected. >> That happens all the time. Those applications also have applications that are dead and applications that are alive may also have users that are dead as well. So you have that problem at the application level, at the user level. We also see a permutation of what you describe, which is leftover artifacts due to configuration mistakes. So a company just put up a new data center, a satellite office in Singapore and they hired a team to go install all the hardware. Somebody accidentally left an administrative portal exposed to the public internet and nobody knew the internet works, the lights are on, the office is up and running, but there was something that was supposed to be turned off that was left turned on. So sometimes we bring to company's attention and they say, that's not mine. That doesn't belong to me. And we're like, oh, well, we see some reason why. >> It's his fault. >> Yeah and they're like, oh, that was the contractor set up the thing. They forgot to turn off the administrative portal with the default login credentials. So we shut off those doors. >> Yeah. Sam, this is really something that's not talked about a lot in the industry that we've become so reliant on managed services and other people, CISOs, CIOs, and even all departments that have applications, even marketing departments, they become reliant on agencies and other parties to do stuff for them which inherently just increases the risk here of what they have. So there inherently could be as secure as they could be, but yet exposed completely on the other side. >> That's right. We have so many virtual touch points with our partners, our vendors, our managed service providers, suppliers, other third parties, and all the humans that are involved in that mix. It creates just a massive ripple effect. So everybody in a chain can be doing things right. And if there's one bad link, the whole chain breaks. I know it's like the cliche analogy, but it rings true. >> Supply chain trust again. Trust who you trust. Let's see how those all reconcile. So Sam, I have to ask you, okay, you're a former CISO. You've seen many movies in the industry. Co-founded this company. You're in the front lines. You've got some cool things happening. I can almost imagine the vision is a lot more than just providing a rating and score. I'm sure there's more vision around intelligence, automation. You mentioned vault, wallet capabilities, exchanging keys. We heard at re:Inforce automated reasoning, metadata reasoning. You got all kinds of crypto and quantum. I mean, there's a lot going on that you can tap into. What's your vision where you see SecurityScorecard going? >> When we started the company, the rating was the thing that we sold and it was a language that helped technical and non-technical folks alike level the playing field and talk about risk and use it to drive their strategy. Today, the rating just opens the door to that discussion and there's so much additional value. I think in the next one to two years, we're going to see the rating becomes standardized. It's going to be more frequently asked or even required or leveraged by key decision makers. When we're doing business, it's going to be like, Hey, show me your scorecard. So I'm seeing the rating get baked more and more the lexicon of risk. But beyond the rating, the goal is really to make a world a safer place. Help transform and rise the tide. So all ships can lift. In order to do that, we have to help companies, not only identify the risk, but also rectify the risk. So there's tools we build to really understand the full risk. Like we talked about the inside, the outside, the fourth parties, fifth parties, the real ecosystem. Once we identified where are all the Fs and bad things, will then what? So couple things that we're doing. We've launched a pro serve arm to help companies. Now companies don't have to pay to fix the score. Anybody, like I said, can fix the score completely free of charge, but some companies need help. They ask us and they say, Hey, I'm looking for a trusted advisor. A Sherpa, a guide to get me to a better place or they'll say, Hey, I need some pen testing services. So we've augmented a service arm to help accelerate the remediation efforts. We're also partnered with different industries that use the rating as part of a larger picture. The cyber rating isn't the end all be all. When companies are assessing risk, they may be looking at a financial ratings, ESG ratings, KYC AML, cyber security, and they're trying to form a complete risk profile. So we go and we integrate into those decision points. Insurance companies, all the top insurers, re-insurers, brokers are leveraging SecurityScorecard as an ingredient to help underwrite for cyber liability insurance. It's not the only ingredient, but it helps them underwrite and identify the help and price the risk so they can push out a policy faster. First policy is usually the one that's signed. So time to quote is an important metric. We help to accelerate that. We partner with credit rating agencies like Fitch, who are talking to board members, who are asking, Hey, I need a third party, independent verification of what my CISO is saying. So the CISO is presenting the rating, but so are the proxy advisors and the ratings companies to the board. So we're helping to inform the boards and evolve how they're thinking about cyber risk. We're helping with the insurance space. I think that, like you said, we're only scratching the surface. I can see, today we have about 50,000 companies that are engaging a rating and there's no reason why it's not going to be in the millions in just the next couple years here. >> And you got the capability to bring in more telemetry and see the new things, bring that into the index, bring that into the scorecard and then map that to potential any vulnerabilities. >> Bingo. >> But like you said, the old days, when you were dating yourself, you were in a glass room with a door lock and key and you can see who's two folks in there having lunch, talking database. No one's going to get hurt. Now that's gone, right? So now you don't know who's out there and machines. So you got humans that you don't know and you got machines that are turning on and off services, putting containers out there. Who knows what's in those payloads. So a ton of surface area and complexity to weave through. I mean only is going to get done with automation. >> It's the only way. Part of our vision includes not attempting to make a faster questionnaire, but rid ourselves of the process all altogether and get more into the continuous assessment mindset. Now look, as a former CISO myself, I don't want another tool to log into. We already have 50 tools we log into every day. Folks don't need a 51st and that's not the intent. So what we've done is we've created today, an automation suite, I call it, set it and forget it. Like I'm probably dating myself, but like those old infomercials. And look, and you've got what? 50,000 vendors business partners. Then behind there, there's another a hundred thousand that they're using. How are you going to keep track of all those folks? You're not going to log in every day. You're going to set rules and parameters about the things that you care about and you care depending on the nature of the engagement. If we're exchanging sensitive data on the network layer, you might care about exposed database. If we're doing it on the app layer, you're going to look at application security vulnerabilities. So what our customers do is they go create rules that say, Hey, if any of these companies in my tier one critical vendor watch list, if they have any of these parameters, if the score drops, if they drop below a B, if they have these issues, pick these actions and the actions could be, send them a questionnaire. We can send the questionnaire for you. You don't have to send pen and paper, forget about it. You're going to open your email and drag the Excel spreadsheet. Those days are over. We're done with that. We automate that. You don't want to send a questionnaire, send a report. We have integrations, notify Slack, create a Jira ticket, pipe it to ServiceNow. Whatever system of record, system of intelligence, workflow tools companies are using, we write in and allow them to expedite the whole. We're trying to close the window. We want to close the window of the attack. And in order to do that, we have to bring the attention to the people as quickly as possible. That's not going to happen if someone logs in every day. So we've got the platform and then that automation capability on top of it. >> I love the vision. I love the utility of a scorecard, a verification mark, something that could be presented, credential, an image, social proof. To security and an ongoing way to monitor it, observe it, update it, add value. I think this is only going to be the beginning of what I would see as much more of a new way to think about credentialing companies. >> I think we're going to reach a point, John, where and some of our customers are already doing this. They're publishing their scorecard in the public domain, not with the technical details, but an abstracted view. And thought leaders, what they're doing is they're saying, Hey, before you send me anything, look at my scorecard securityscorecard.com/securityrating, and then the name of their company, and it's there. It's in the public domain. If somebody Googles scorecard for certain companies, it's going to show up in the Google Search results. They can mitigate probably 30, 40% of inbound requests by just pointing to that thing. So we want to give more of those tools, turn security from a reactive to a proactive motion. >> Great stuff, Sam. I love it. I'm going to make sure when you hit our site, our company, we've got camouflage sites so we can make sure you get the right ones. I'm sure we got some copyright dates. >> We can navigate the decoys. We can navigate the decoys sites. >> Sam, thanks for coming on. And looking forward to speaking more in depth on showcase that we have upcoming Amazon Startup Showcase where you guys are going to be presenting. But I really appreciate this conversation. Thanks for sharing what you guys are working on. We really appreciate. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you so much, John. Thank you for having me. >> Okay. This is theCUBE conversation here in Palo Alto, California. Coming in from New York city is the co-founder, chief operating officer of securityscorecard.com. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (gentle music)

(ethereal music) >> Good morning, everyone, and welcome to theCUBE's day-two coverage of Snowflake Summit '22. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante. We are live in Las Vegas at Caesar's Forum, looking forward to an action-packed day here on theCUBE. Our first guest joins us, Bill Stratton, the global industry lead, media, entertainment and advertising at Snowflake. Bill, great to have you on the program talking about industry specifics. >> Glad to be here, excited to have a conversation. >> Yeah, the media and entertainment industry has been keeping a lot of us alive the last couple of years, probably more of a dependence on it than we've seen stuck at home. Talk to us about the data culture in the media, entertainment and advertising landscape, how is data being used today? >> Sure. Well, let's start with what you just mentioned, these last couple of years, I think, coming out of the pandemic, a lot of trends and impact to the media industry. I think there were some things happening prior to COVID, right? Streaming services were starting to accelerate. And obviously, Netflix was an early mover. Disney launched their streaming service right before the pandemic, Disney+, with ESPN+ as well. I think then, as the pandemic occurred these last two years, the acceleration of consumers' habits, obviously, of not just unbundling their cable subscription, but then choosing, you know, what services they want to subscribe to, right? I mean, I think we all sort of grew up in this era of, okay, the bundle was the bundle, you had sports, you had news, you had entertainment, whether you watched the channel or not, you had the bundle. And what the pandemic has accelerated is what I call, and I think a lot of folks call, the golden age of content. And really, the golden age of content is about the consumer. They're in control now, they pick and choose what services they want, what they watch, when they watch it. And I think that has extremely, sort of accelerated this adoption on the consumer side, and then it's creating this data ecosystem, as a result of companies like Disney having a direct-to-consumer relationship for the first time. It used to be a Disney or an NBC was a wholesaler, and the cable or satellite company had the consumer data and relationship. Now, the companies that are producing the content have the data and the consumer relationships. It's a fascinating time. >> And they're still coming over the top on the Telco networks, right? >> Absolutely right. >> Telco's playing in this game? >> Yeah, Telco is, I think what the interesting dynamic with Telco is, how do you bundle access, high speed, everybody still needs high speed at their home, with content? And so I think it's a similar bundle, but it takes on a different characteristic, because the cable and Telcos are not taking the content risk. AT&T sold Warner Media recently, and I think they looked at it and said, we're going to stay with the infrastructure, let somebody else do the content. >> And I think I heard, did I hear this right the other day, that Roku is now getting into the content business? >> Roku is getting into it. And they were early mover, right? They said the TVs aren't, the operating system in the television is not changing fast enough for content. So their dongle that you would slide into a TV was a great way to get content on connected televisions, which is the fastest growing platform. >> I was going to say, what are the economics like in this business? Because the bundles were sort of a limiting factor, in terms of the TAM. >> Yeah. >> And now, we get great content, all right, to watch "Better Call Saul", I have to get AMC+ or whatever. >> You know, your comment, your question about the economics and the TAM is an interesting one, because I think we're still working through it. One of the things, I think, that's coming to the forefront is that you have to have a subscription revenue stream. Okay? Netflix had a subscription revenue stream for the last six, eight, 10 years, significantly, but I think you even see with Netflix that they have to go to a second revenue model, which is going to be an ad-supported model, right? We see it in the press these last couple days with Reid Hastings. So I think you're going to see, obviously subscription, obviously ad-supported, but the biggest thing, back to the consumer, is that the consumer's not going to sit through two minutes of advertising to watch a 22 minute show. >> Dave: No way. >> Right? So what's then going to happen is that the content companies want to know what's relevant to you, in terms of advertising. So if I have relevancy in my ad experience, then it doesn't quite feel, it's not intrusive, and it's relevant to my experience. >> And the other vector in the TAM, just one last follow-up, is you see Amazon, with Prime, going consumption. >> Bill: That's right. >> You get it with Prime, it's sort of there, and the movies aren't the best in the world, but you can buy pretty much any movie you want on a consumption basis. >> Yeah. Just to your last quick point, there is, we saw last week, the Boston Red Sox are bundling tickets, season tickets, with a subscription to their streaming service. >> NESN+, I think it is, yeah. So just like Prime, NESN+- >> And it's like 30 bucks a month. >> -just like Prime bundling with your delivery service, you're going to start to see all kinds of bundles happen. >> Dave: Interesting. >> Man, the sky is the limit, it's like it just keeps going and proliferating. >> Bill: It does. >> You talk about, on the ad side for a second, you mentioned the relevance, and we expect that as consumers, we're so demanding, (clears throat) excuse me, we don't have the patience, one of the things I think that was in short supply during COVID, and probably still is, is patience. >> That's right. >> I think with all of us, but we expect that brands know us enough to surf up the content that they think we watched, we watched "Breaking Bad", "Better Call Saul", don't show me other things that aren't relevant to the patterns I've been showing you, the content creators have to adapt quickly to the rising and changing demands of the consumer. >> That's right. Some people even think, as you go forward and consumers have this expectation, like you just mentioned, that brands not only need to understand their own view of the consumer, and this is going to come into the Snowflake points that we talk about in a minute, but the larger view that a brand has about a consumer, not just their own view, but how they consume content, where they consume it, what other brands they even like, that all builds that picture of making it relevant for the consumer and viewer. >> Where does privacy come into the mix? So we want it to be relevant and personalized in a non-creepy way. Talk to us about the data clean rooms that Snowflake launched, >> Bill: That's right. >> and how is that facilitating from a PII perspective, or is it? >> Yeah. Great question. So I think the other major development, in addition to the pandemic, driving people watching all these shows is the fact that privacy legislation is increasing. So we started with California with the CCPA, we had GDPR in Europe, and what we're starting to see is state by state roll out different privacy legislations. At some point, it may be true that we have a federal privacy legislation, and there are some bills that are working through the legislature right now. Hard to tell what's going to happen. But to your question, the importance of privacy, and respecting privacy, is exactly happening at the same time that media companies and publishers need to piece together all the viewing habits that you have. You've probably watched, already this morning, on your PC, on your phone, and in order to bring that experience together a media company has to be able to tie that together, right? Collaborate. So you have collaboration on one side, and then you have privacy on the other, and they're not necessarily, normally, go together, Right? They're opposing forces. So now though, with Snowflake, and our data clean room, we like to call it a data collaboration platform, okay? It's not really what a data warehouse function traditionally has been, right? So if I can take data collaboration, and our clean room, what it does is it brings privacy controls to the participants. So if I'm an advertiser, and I'm a publisher, and I want to collaborate to create an advertising campaign, they both can design how they want to do that privacy-based collaboration, Because it's interesting, one company might have a different perspective of privacy, on a risk profile, than another company. So it's very hard to say one size is going to fit all. So what we at Snowflake do, with our infrastructure, is let you design how you create your own clean room. >> Is that a differentiator for Snowflake, the clean rooms? >> It's absolutely a very big differentiator. Two reasons, or probably two, three reasons, really. One is, it's cross cloud. So all the advertisers aren't going to be in the same cloud, all the publishers aren't going to be in the same cloud. One big differentiator there. Second big differentiator is, we want to be able to bring applications to the data, so our clean room can enable you to create measurement against an ad campaign without moving your data. So bringing measurement to the data, versus sending data to applications then improves the privacy. And then the third one is, frankly, our pricing model. You only pay for Snowflake what you use. So in the advertising world, there's what's called an ad tech tax, there is no ad tech tax for Snowflake, because we're simply a pay-as-you-go service. So it's a very interesting dynamic. >> So what's that stack look like, in your world? So I've pulled up Frank's chart, I took a picture of his, he's called it the new, modern data stack, I think he called it, but it had infrastructure in the bottom, okay, that's AWS, Google, Azure, and then a lot of you, live data, that would be the media data cloud, the workload execution, the specific workload here is media and entertainment, and then application development, that's a new layer of value that you're bringing in, marketplace, which is the whole ecosystem, and then monetization comes from building on top. >> Bill: Yes. >> So I got AWS in there, and other clouds, you got a big chunk of that, where do your customers add value on top of that? >> Yeah. So the way you described it, I think, with Frank's point, is right on. You have the infrastructure. We know that a lot of advertisers, for example, aren't going to use Amazon, because the retailer competes with Amazon, So they want to might be in Google or Azure. And then sort of as you go up the stack, for the data layer that is Snowflake, especially what we call first-party data, is sitting in that Snowflake environment, right? But that Snowflake environment is a distributed environment, so a Disney, who was on stage with me yesterday, she talked about, Jaya talked about their first-party datas in Snowflake, their advertisers' datas in their own Snowflake account, in their own infrastructure. And then what's interesting is is that application layer is coming to the data, and so what we're really seeing is an acceleration of companies building that application natively on Snowflake to do measurement, to do targeting, to do activation. And so, that growth of that final application layer is what we're seeing as the acceleration in the stack. >> So the more data that's in that massive distributed data cloud, the more value your customers can get out of it. And I would imagine you're just looking to tick things off that where customers are going outside of the Snowflake data cloud, let's attack that so they don't have to. >> Yeah, I think these partners, (clears throat) excuse me, and customers, it's an interesting dynamic, because they're customers of ours. But now, because anybody who is already in Snowflake can be their customer, then they're becoming our partner. So it's an interesting dynamic, because we're bringing advertisers to a Disney or an NBCU, because they already have their data in Snowflake. So the network effect that's getting created because of this layer that's being built is accelerated. >> In 2013, right after the second reinvent, I wrote a piece called "How to Compete with the Amazon Gorilla." And it seemed to us pretty obvious at the time, you're not going to win an infrastructure again, you got to build on top of it, you got to build ecosystems within industries, and the data, the connection points, that network effect that you just talked about, it's actually quite thrilling to see you guys building that. >> Well, and I think you know this too, I mean, Amazon's a great partner of ours as well, right? So they're part of our media data cloud, as Amazon, right? So we're making it easier and easier for companies to be able to spin up a clean room in places like AWS, so that they get the privacy controls and the governance that's required as well. >> What do you advise to, say, the next generation of media and advertising companies who may be really early in the data journey? Obviously, there's competition right here in the rear view mirror, but we've seen services that launch and fail, what do you advise to those folks that maybe are early in the journey and how can Snowflake help them accelerate that to be able to launch services they can monetize, and get those consumers watching? >> I think the first thing for a lot of these brands is that they need to really own their data. And what I mean by that is, they need to understand the consumer relationship that they have, they need to take the privacy and the governance very seriously, and they need to start building that muscle. It's almost, it's a routine and a muscle that they just need to continue to kind of build up, because if you think about it, a media company spends two, three hours a day with their customer. You might watch two hours of a streaming show, but how much time do you spend with a single brand a day? Maybe 30 seconds, maybe 10 seconds, right? And so, their need to build the muscle, to be able to collect the data in a privacy-compliant way, build the intelligence off of that, and then leverage the intelligence. We talked about it a few days ago, and you look at a retailer, as a really good example, a retailer is using Snowflake and the retail data cloud to optimize their supply chain. Okay? But their supply chain extends beyond their own infrastructure to the advertising and marketing community, because if I can't predict demand, how do I then connect it to my supply chain? So our media data cloud is helping retailers and consumer product goods companies actually drive demand into their reconstructed supply chain. So they both work together. >> So you have a big focus, obviously, on the monetization piece, of course, that's a great place to start. Where do you see the media data cloud going? >> Yeah. I think we'll start to expand beyond advertising and beyond marketing. There's really important sub-segments of media. Gaming is one. You talk about the pandemic and teenagers playing games on their phones. So we'll have an emphasis around gaming. We'll have an emphasis in sports. Sports is going through a big change in an ecosystem. And there's a big opportunity to connect the dots in those ecosystems as well. And then I think, to what we were just talking about, I think connecting commerce and media is a very important area. And I think the two are still very loosely connected today. It used to be, could I buy the Jennifer Aniston sweater from "Friends", right? That was always the analogy. Now, media and social media, and TikTok and everything else, are combining media and commerce very closely. So I think we'll start to see more focus around that as well. So that adds to your monetization. >> Right, right. And you can NFT that. (Lisa laughs) >> Bill: That's right, there you go, you can mint an NFT on that. >> It's the tip of the iceberg. >> Absolutely. >> There's so much more potential to go. Bill, thank you so much for joining us bright and early this morning, talking about what snowflake is doing in media, entertainment and advertising. Exciting stuff, relevant to all of us, we appreciate your insights and your forward-looking statements. >> Thank you for having me. I enjoyed it. >> Our pleasure. >> Thank you. >> Good >> Bill: Bye now. >> For our guest and Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin, you're up early with us watching theCUBE's day-two coverage of Snowflake Summit '22. We'll be back in a moment with our next guest. (upbeat music)

>>Good afternoon and welcome back to our audience here in Asia pacific This is Sandeep again uh from my home studio in Singapore, I hope you found the session to be insightful. I thought it was a key takeaway in terms of how you know the the world is going through a massive transformation, driven by underpinning the workload optimized solutions around up by round of security, 3 60 degree security. As Neil Mcdonald talked about underpinned by the scale, you know, whether you're on exa scale, compute public cloud or on the edge and that's kind of underpinning the digital transformation that our customers are going to go through. I have two special guests with me. Uh let me just quickly introduce them Santos restaurant martin who uh is the Managing director for intel in A P. K. And Dorinda Kapoor, Managing Director for HB Initial pacific So, good afternoon, both you gentlemen. >>Good afternoon. >>So Santos. My first question is to you, first of all, a comment, you know, the passion at which uh, pad Kill Singer talked through the four superpowers. That was amazing. You know, I could see that passion comes through the screen. You know, I think everybody in the audience could relate with that. We are like, you know, as you know, on the words of the launch, the gentle plus by power, but it's isolate processor from intel, what are you seeing and what do our customers should expect improvements, especially with regard to the business outcomes. >>Yeah, So first of all, thank you so much for having me in this session and, and as you said, Sandeep, I mean, you could really see how energized we are. And you heard that from pad as well. Uh, so we launched the third gen, intel, Xeon processors or isolate, you know about a couple of weeks ago and I'm sure, you know, there's lots of benefits that you get in these new products. But I thought what I'll do is I'll try and summarize them in three key buckets. The first one is about the performance benefits that these new products bring in. The 2nd 1 is the value of platforms and I think the last pieces about the partnerships and how it makes deployment really easy and simple for our customers. Let me start with the first one which is about performance and the and the big jump that we're staying. It's about a 46% performance, increased generation over generation. It's flexible, it's optimized performance from the edge to the cloud where you would see about 1.5 to 1.7 X improvements on key war clouds like the cloud five G I O D HPC and AI that are so critical all around us. It's probably the only data center processor that has built in A I acceleration that helps with faster analytics. It's got security optimist on intel SGX that basically gives you a secure on cliff when when sensitive data is getting transacted and it also has crypto acceleration that reduces any performance impact because of the pervasive encryption that we have all around us. Now The second key benefit is about platform and if you remember when we launch sky lake in 2017, we laid out a strategy that said that we are here to help customers >>move, >>store and process data. So it's not just the CPU that we announced with the third genitals, jOHn Announcements. We also announce products like the obtained persistent memory, 200 cds That gives you about a 32 higher memory bandwidth and six terabytes of memory capacity on stock. It the obtain S S D S, the intel internet, 800 cities adapter that gives you about 200 Gbps per port, which means you can move data much more faster and you have the intellectual X F P G s that gives you about a double the better fabric performance for what? Which means if there's key workloads that you want to go back and offloaded to a to a steak or a specific uh CPU then you have the F P G s that can really help you there Now. What does the platform do for our customers? It helps them build higher application and system level performance that they can all benefit from the last b which is the partnerships area is a critical one because we've had decades of experience of solution delivery with a broad ecosystem and with partners like HP and we build elements like the Intel select solution and the market ready solution that makes it so much more easier for our customers to deploy with Over 50 million Xeon scalable processes that is shipped around the world. A billion Xeon cores that are powering the cloud since 2013 customers have really a proven solution that they can work with. So in summary, I want you to remember the three key piece that can really >>help you be >>successful with these new products, the performance uplifted, you get generation over generation, the platform benefits. So it's not just the CPU but it's things around that that makes the system and the application work way better. And then the partnerships that give you peace of mind because you can go deploy proven solutions that you can go and implement in your organization and serve your customers better. >>Thanks. Thanks thanks and Tosha for clearly outlining, you know, the three PS and kind of really resonates well. Um, so let me just uh turn over you know, to Dorinda there in the hot, you know, there's a lot of new solutions, you're our new treaties that santos talked about security, you get a lot of performance benefits and yet our customers have to go through a massive amount of change from a digital transformation perspective in order that they take all the advantages in state competitive. We're using HP Iran addressing the needs for the challenges of our customers and how we really helping them accelerate their transformation journey. >>Yeah, sure. Sandeep, thanks a lot for the question. And you are right. Most of the businesses actually need to go uh digital transformation in order to stay relevant in the current times. And in fact actually COVID-19 has further accelerated the pace of digital transformation for uh most of our customers. And actually the digital transformation is all about delivering differentiated experiences and outcomes at the age by converting data collected from multiple different sources to insights and actions. So we actually an HP believe that enterprise of the future is going to be eight centric data driven and cloud enabled And with our strategy of providing H2 cloud platform and having a complete portfolio of uh software, networking computer and the storage solutions both at the age and court uh to of course collect, transmit secure, analyze and store data. I believe we are in the best position to help our customers start and execute on their transformation journey. Now reality is various enterprises are at different stages of their transformation journey. You know, uh we in HP are able to help our customers who are at the early stage or just starting the transformation journey to to help build their transformation broad maps with the help of our advisory teams and uh after that helped them to execute on the same with our professional services team. While for the customers who are already midway in the transformation journey, we have been helping them to differentiate themselves by delivering workload optimized solutions which provide latency, flexibility and performance. They need to turn data into insights and innovations to help their business. Now, speaking of the workload optimized solutions, HP has actually doubled down in this area with the help of our partners like Intel, which powers our latest Gentlemen plus platform. This brings more compute power, memory and storage capacity which our customers need as they process more data and solve more complex challenges within their business. >>Thank you. Thanks. And er in there I think that's really insightful. Hopefully you know our customer base, I will start joined in here, can hear that and take advantage of you know, how HP is helping you know, fast track the exploration. I come back to you something you don't like during the talk about expanding capacities and we saw news about you know Intel invest $20 billion dollars or so, something like that in terms of you know, adding capacities or manufacturing. So I'd like to hear from your perspective, you know how this investments which intel is putting is a kind of a game changer, how you're shaping the industry as we move forward. >>Yeah, I mean as we all know, I think there's accelerated demand for semiconductors across the world digitization especially in an environment that we're that we're going through has really made computing pervasive and it's it's becoming a foundation of every industry and our society, the world just needs more semiconductors. Intel is in a unique position to rise to that occasion and meet the growing demand for semiconductors given our advanced manufacturing scale that we have. So the intel foundry services and the that you mentioned is is part of the Intel's new I. D. M. Torrado strategy that Bad announced which is a differentiated winning formula that will really deliver the new era of innovation, manufacturing and product leadership. We will expand our manufacturing capacity as you mentioned with that 20 billion investments and building to fabs in Arizona. But there's more to come in the year ahead and these fans will support the expanding requirements of our current products and also provide committed capacity for our foundry customers. Our foundry customers will also be able to leverage our leading edge process, the treaty packaging technology, a world class I. P. Portfolio. So >>I'm really really >>excited. I think it's a truly exciting time for our industry. The world requires more semiconductors and Intel is stepping in to help build the same. >>Fantastic, fantastic. Thank you. Some potion is really heartening to know and we really cherish the long partnership, HP and Intel have together. I look forward that you know with this gentleman plus launch and the partnership going forward. You know, we have only motivation and work together. Really appreciate your taking the time and joining and thank you very much for joining us. >>Thank you. >>Thanks. >>Okay, so with that I will move on to our second segment and in white, another special guest and this is Pete Chambers who is the managing director for A N D N A P K. Good afternoon Pete. You can hear us Well >>I can. Thank you. Sandy, Great to be >>here. Good and thanks for joining me. Um I thought I just opened up, you know, like a comment around the 19 world Records uh, am D. N. H. We have together and it's a kind of a testament to the joint working model and relationship and the collaboration. And so again, really thank you for the partnership. We have any change. Uh, let me just quickly get to the first question. You know, when it comes to my mind listening over to what Antonio and Liza were discussing, you know, they're talking about there's a huge amount of flow of data. You know, the technology and the compute needs to be closer to where the data is being generated and how is A. M. D. You know, helping leverage some of those technologies to bring feature and benefits and driving outcome for customers here in asia. >>Yeah, as lisa mentioned, we're now in a high performance computing mega cycle driven by cloud computing, digital transformation five DNA. Which means that everyone needs and wants more computer IDC predicts that by 20 23/65 percent of the impact GDP will be digitized. So there's an inflection coming with digital transformation at the fall, businesses are ever increasingly looking for trusted partners like HP and HP and and to help them address and adapt to these complex emerging technologies while keeping their IT infrastructure highly efficient, you know, and is helping enable this transformation by bringing leadership performance such as high court densities, high PC and increased I. O. But at the same time offering the best efficiency and performance for what all third gen Epic. CPU support 100 and 28 lanes of superfast PC for connectivity to four terabytes of memory and multiple layers of security. You know, we've heard from our customers that security continues to be a key consideration, you know? And he continues to listen. And with third gen, Epic, we're providing a multitude of security features such as secure root of trust at the bios level which we work very closely with HP on secure encrypted virtualization, secure memory encryption and secure nested paging to really giving the customers confidence when designing Epic. We look very closely at the key workloads that our customers will be looking to enable. And we've designed Epic from the ground up to deliver superior experience. So high performance computing is growing in this region and our leadership per socket core density of up to 64 cause along with leading IO and high memory bandwidth provides a compelling solution to help solve customers most complex computational problems faster. New HP Apollo 6500 and 10 systems featuring third gen, Epic are also optimist for artificial intelligence capabilities to improve training and increased accuracy and results. And we also now support up to eight and instinct accelerators. In each of these systems, hyper converged infrastructure continues to gain momentum in today's modern data center and our superior core density helps deliver more VMS per CPU supported by a multitude of security virtualization features to provide peace of mind and works very closely with industry leaders in HD like HP but also Nutanix and VM ware to help simplify the customers infrastructure. And in recent times we've seen video. I have a resurgence as companies have looked to empower their remote employee remote employees. Third gen, Epic enables more video sessions per CPU providing a more cost optimized solution, simply put Epics higher core density per CPU means customers need fewer service. That means less space required, lower power and cooling expenditure and as a result, a tangibly lower total cost of ownership add to this the fact, as you mentioned that Andy Epic with HP of 19 world records across virtualization, energy efficiency, decision support, database workloads, etc. And service side java. And it all adds up to a very strong value proposition to encourage Cdos to embark on their next upgrade cycle with HP and Epic >>Interstate. Thank you Peter and really quite insightful. And I've just done that question over to Narendra Pete talked about great new technologies, new solution, new areas that are going to benefit from these technology enhancements at the same time. You know, if I'm a customer, I look at every time we talk about technology, you know, you need to invest and where is you know, the bigger concern for customers always wears this money will come from. So I want to uh, you know, uh, the if you share your insights, how is actually helping customers to be able to implement these technology solutions, giving them a financial flexibility so that they can drive business outcomes. >>Yes, and the very important point, you know, from how HP is able to help our customers from their transformation. Now, reality is that most of the traditional enterprises are being challenged by this new digital bond businesses who have no doubt of funding and very low expectation of profitability. But in reality, majority of the capital of these traditional enterprises has uh tied up in their existing businesses as they do need to keep current operations running while starting their digital transformation at the same time. This of course creates real challenges and funding their transformation. Now with HP, with our Green Lake Cloud services, we are able to help customers fund their transformation journey. Were instead of buying up front, customers pay only for what they consume as the scale. We are not only able to offer flexible consumption model for new investments but are also able to help our customers, you know, for monetize their capital, which is tied up in the old ICT infrastructure because we can buy back that old infrastructure and convert that into conception of frank. So while customers can continue to use those assets to run their current business and reality is HIV is the leader in the this as a service space and probably the only vendor to be able to offer as a service offering for all of our portfolio. Uh, if you look at the ideas prediction, 70 of the applications are not ready for public cloud and will continue to run in private environments in addition. And everybody talked about the beef for a I and you know, HPC as well as the edge and more and more workloads are actually moving to the edge where the public cloud will have for less and less a role to play. But when you look at the customers, they are more and more looking for a cloud, like business model for all the workloads, uh, that they're running outside the public cloud. Now, with our being like offering, we are able to take away all the complexity from customers, allowing them to run the workloads wherever they want. That means that the edge in the data center or in the cloud and consume in the way they want. In other words, we're able to provide cloud, like experience anytime, anywhere to our customers. And of course, all these Green Lake offerings are powered by our latest compute capabilities that HP has to offer. >>Thank you. Thank you, surrender. That's really, really, very insightful. I have a minute or two, so let me try to squeeze another question from your feet, you know, MD is just now introduced the third generation of epics and congratulations on that. How are you seeing that? Excellent. Helping you accelerate in this growth, in the impact? Uh, you know, the geography as as such. >>Sure, great question. And as I mentioned, you know, third gen Epic with me and and once again delivers industry leading solutions, bending the curve on performance efficiency and TCO helping more than ever to deliver along with HP the right technologies for today and tomorrow. You know, in the service space, it's not just about what you can offer today. You need to be able to predictably deliver innovation over the long term. And we are committed to doing just that, you know, and strategy is to focus on the customer. We continue to see strong growth both globally and in a pack in HPC cloud and Web tech manufacturing, Fc telco and public and government sectors are growth plan is focused on getting closer to our customers directly, engaging with HP and our partners and the end customer to help guide them on the best solution and assist them in solving their computing pain points cost effectively. A recent example of this is our partnership with palsy supercomputing center in Australia, where HP and M. D will be helping to provide some 200,000 cause across 1600 nodes and over 750 radio on instinct accelerators empowering scientists to solve today's most challenging problems. We have doubled ourselves and F8 teams in the region over the past year and will continue to invest in additional customer facing sales and technical people through 2021, you know, and has worked very closely with HP to co design and co developed the best technologies for our customers needs. We joined forces over seven years ago to prepare for the first generation of Epic at launch and you fast forward to today and it's great to see that HP now has a very broad range of Andy Epic servers spanning from the edge two extra scale. So we are truly excited about what we can offer the market in partnership with HP and feel that we offer a very strong foundation of differentiation for our channel partners to address their customers need to accelerate accelerate their digital transformation. Thank you. Sandy, >>thank you. Thanks Peter. And really it's been amazing partnering with the NDP here and thanks for your sponsorship on that. And together we want to work with you to create another 19 world records right from here in the issue. Absolutely. So with that we are coming to the end of the event. Really thanks for coming pete and to our audience here because the pig is being a great a couple of hours. I hope you all found these sessions very, very insightful. You heard from our worldwide experts as to where, you know, divorce, moving in terms of the transformation, what your hp is bringing to our compute workload optimized solutions which are going to go from regardless of what scale of computing you're using and wrapped around 3 60 security and then offer truly as a service experience. But before you drop off, I would like to request you to please scan the QR code you see on your screen and fill in the feedback form we have, you know, lucky draw for some $50 worth of vultures for the five lucky winners today. So please click up your phone and, you know, spend a minute or two and give us a feedback and thank you very much again for this wonderful day. And I wish everybody a great day. Thank you.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Dell Technologies. World Digital Experience Brought to you by Dell Technologies. Hey, welcome back. You're ready. Jeffrey here with the Cube. Welcome back to our ongoing coverage of Dell Technology World 2020. The Digital Experience. I'm coming to you from Palo Alto. It's a digital event, just like everything else in 2020. But we're excited to have our next guest. I think he's coming in all the way from Atlanta, Georgia. He's Jim Shook, the director of cyber security and compliance practice at Del Technology. Jim, Great to see you. >>Thanks, Jeff. It's quite the title there. Thanks for getting all that out. >>I have a big posted notes so that, uh, that's very helpful. But, you know, it's it's actually kind of an interesting thing because you have compliance and cybersecurity and your title, and it's it's It's interesting relationship between compliance as a motivator of behavior versus you know, you need to go a lot further than just what the compliance says. So I'm curious if you can talk about that relationship between yeah, we need to be compliant, and we need to follow the rules. But you need to think a lot bigger than that. >>Yeah, definitely. I mean, there's so many different standards out there and requirements. So typically, what we'll see on the regulatory side is very much a minimum baseline, and leading the way, as usual in the cybersecurity space, will be financial and health care organizations. That's particularly true in the US, but pretty much globally, at least on the financial side. So they'll set some baselines. A lot of industries don't really have many. And so what we look at many times is just general risk to the business. And, of course, if you're a publicly traded company, that might trigger some SEC requirements or other things like that. But again, we really look at those requirements as minimum baselines, and you have to work up from there based on the organization's risk profile. >>Yeah, yeah, and we see that we see that, too, with privacy and a whole a whole bunch of stuff where traditionally the regs and the compliance kind of lag, you know where the technologies and where the markets moving. So let's before we get too deep into it. Let's let's talk about the cove it impact because obviously a huge thing. Insecurity, Uh, you know, a light switch moment in mid March when everybody had to work from home. So suddenly your tax surfaces increase exponentially. People are working out of home environments that you don't necessarily know what's going on there. Who's going on there, The shared networks with the spouse and the kids and and everybody else. And but now we're, you know, 678 months into this. This is something that's going to be going on for a while, and even the new normal will have some type of a hybrid relationship with with, you know, an increased level of remote remote work once they work from home. But it's really work from anywhere. So I wonder if you could share your thoughts about how things have transitioned from you know, what happened in mid March, taking care of your own business and your own people to, you know, then taking care of your customers and the emergencies that they had. But now really thinking in terms of more of kind of a long term, fundamental shift in the security profile that people have with all their data and information >>Yeah. Gosh, it's been really interesting. I think organizations have done an amazing job when you think about the things that they've had to get done just really overnight. So a lot has been written about the pandemic, and you mentioned Jeff to really that expanded threats surface. All of a sudden, you've got people working from home. There wasn't enough VPN capacity. A lot of places. I talked to some organizations. Employees just took their desktop off of their desk and brought it home so it wasn't really ready toe work at a remote location. But organizations really adapted well to it. Meanwhile, that was opportunity for the criminals, and they've taken it. But Jeff, one of the things that I think about two is to an extent, this is the new normal, not necessarily the work from home, but the shift that's going to consistently happen in cybersecurity. Things change. The criminals air really smart, they adapt. So that was work from home. What's the next thing going to be? There's I O T. There's remote devices. There will be some vulnerabilities. We just have to get used to this pace and continue it. Unfortunately, >>right, right, right Yeah, it's always it's always a little bit of, Ah, a cat and mouse game, Right? But what? And then one of the other trends that we're seeing, I don't know, maybe more visibility or maybe higher profile is is the ransomware attacks, right? So we've seen, you know, kind of this thing really interesting continuation of different types of security threats between just the the local kid who's just trying to do it because it's fun versus, you know, competitive stuff where people are trying to take out their competitors versus nation states and nation states being, um, you know, kind of driving these attacks. But the ransom, the ransom where we've seen before, but it seems to be increasing in frequency. Maybe we're just hearing about it. What's special about ransom, where as a specific type of security threat. >>So I started this practice about five years ago, and at that point, ransom or was just barely a blip, it was really about destruction and the way that we talk about it in the cybersecurity spaces. There's this triad, these three components of our data that we're trying to protect. So one of those is confidentiality, and that traces back to the attacks you're talking about. That's when somebody steals your data. You don't want them to do that. That breaks the confidentiality of the data. And that's really where the cybersecurity controls kind of grew up around, that you didn't want credit cards, intellectual property, healthcare information. And that's still a problem with ransom, where they're affecting the availability of the data or the integrity of the data. And those were the other two prongs that go with confidentiality. And so these attacks. That's why they feel different. Their impact in your ability to access the data, which in many cases can shut a business down. There have been headlines over the last couple of months. Some businesses that really were closed off for components of their business that were shut down, and it's because they didn't have their data or their systems, and then eventually they either found a way to recover them. Or perhaps in many cases, the speculation is they paid the ransom to get the data back, >>right. And of course, the problem with ever paying a ransom, um, is that you don't necessarily know you're going to get the data back. That you may just be encouraging them to hit you again. Eso paying the ransom is is not necessarily the best solution. And then then, in talking about this thing, turns out that in fact, not only may it not be the right solution, you may be breaking the law. This is a pretty interesting thing. I had no idea that there's really laws dictating, you know, I guess responding to a criminal threat. What? Where does that go? What's that from? >>Yeah, that's we've talked about this for a while. But it wasn't until about two weeks ago that some information was released from the Department of Treasury. So the idea here is that every not every country, many countries, the US among them have lists of countries and organizations that you can't do business with. So essentially a prohibited or sanctions list. And, as it turns out, many of the ransomware bad actors and Jeff is actually real name of one of them evil court. It sounds like a movie or a book, but that's one of the ransomware bad actors there on those lists. So if you get attacked by an organization that's on the list and you pay them. You have now completed a transaction with a prohibited entity and you're subject to potential sanctions. There was a lot written about this being a new law, or the US came up with this law, and that's not the case. The laws have been on the books for a while. It was the Department of Treasury, kind of issuing some guidance, just nudging people. Hey, by the way, you shouldn't be doing this and some of the research I've done a lot of countries have these laws. So while it's just the US that came out with this advisory, which was very public and certainly a big wake up call, these laws exist in a lot of other countries. So organizations really need to be prepared for what they're going to do if they get hit with the Ransomware attack. Not really counting on paying the ransom for the reasons that you said, Plus, it may be against the law. >>And just to make sure I understand you, it's against the law because you're effectively doing business by having a financial transaction with one of these, prohibited either organizations or they're in a prohibited country complete. >>That's correct Yeah, mostly about the organization, um, and then an interesting component of this and we won't get into too much of the weeds on the legal side. But the law is actually a strict liability. So that means it doesn't matter whether you knew or should have known that the entity was on a prohibited list. The mere fact of having that transaction makes you liable. And then the way that the the regulations are written, you can't get someone else to do your dirty work for you. So if you are facilitating that transaction anyway, you may be running afoul of those laws. >>Jesus. One more thing to worry about where you're trying to get business. You're trying to get your business back up and running, but specifically with with with ransomware and why it's different. I mean, there's been business continuity, planning forever. You know, you guys have backup and recovery solutions. Uh, you know, there's so much effort around that What's different here? Is it just because of the time in which you have to respond the availability of those backups toe to come back and get in production? What makes Ransomware so special from a business continuity perspective besides the fact that you're not allowed to pay him because it might be breaking the law. >>Ah, lot, You hit on a couple things there. So we've known forever that with D R. Disaster recovery One of the major things you're doing there is your replicating data quickly so that if you lose sight A you can pop up its site B With ransomware, you're replicating the corrupted data, so you lose that with backups. The bad guys know, just like you mentioned that if you have a backup, you could use that to recover. So they are more frequently now gathering their credentials and attacking the backup. So many cases we see the backups being deleted or otherwise destroyed. And that's really where we have focused with our power. Protect cyber recovery solution is creating a new, extra offline air gapped copy of the most critical applications. That's not going to be susceptible to the attack or the follow up attack that deletes the data. >>So let's jump into that a little bit, um, in a little bit more detailed. So this is a special solution, really targeted, um, as a defense against Ransomware because of the special attributes that ransom where, uh, e guess threatens threatens or the fact that they they also go after your backup in recovery at the same time, knowing you're gonna use that to basically lower the value of their ransom attack. That's crazy. >>Yeah, they're smart. You know, these these Attackers air smart. There's billions of dollars at stake. E think organizations like Evil Corp estimates are they could be making hundreds of millions of dollars. So they're they're not even small businesses. They're almost industries unto themselves. They have advanced tactics, They're leveraging capabilities, and they have. They have products, essentially. So when you think about your production data, your backups, your disaster recovery, those air, all in environments, that they're not accessible on the Internet. But that's where you're doing business. So there is access there. There's employees that have access, and the bad guys find ways to get in through spear phishing attacks, where they're sending emails that look like they're from somebody else and they get a foothold. Once they have that foothold, they can leverage that access to get throughout that production environment. They have access to that data, and they deleted with cyber recovery. What we're doing is we're creating a vaulted environment that's offline. They can't get there from from where they are, so they can't get access to that data. We lock it down, we analyze it, we make sure that it's good and then this happens automatically and day over day. So you've always got that copy of data. If your worst case scenario develops and you lose your production environment, that happens. You've got this copy of data for your most critical applications. You don't want to copy everything in there, but you can use to actually recover and that recover capability. Jeff is one of the pillars of a cyber security structure, so we focus a lot, kind of like you said before. What's different about these attacks? We focus a lot on protecting data and detecting bad guys. This is the recover capability that is part of all these frameworks, >>right? So there's a lot to unpack there before we get into the recovery. And kinda actually, why don't we just start there and then I want to get into the air gap because that's a great That's a great thing to dig in on the recovery what's kind of your targeted s l A Is it based on the size of the application? Um, is it based on on, you know, a different level of service. I mean, what is what is the hope? If I buy into this this solution that I can get my recovery and get back into business if I choose, not toe to pay these guys? What? What does it? What does that kind of look like? >>Most of the time, we're providing a product that our customers are deploying, and then we have some partners that will deployed as a service to, so the SLS may vary, but what we're targeting is a very secure environment, and you can look at how it's architected and think about the technologies. If it's properly operated, you can't get there. You can't get to the data. So the points that we're really looking at is how frequently do we want to update that data? So in other words, how much data can you afford to lose? And then how long will it take you to recover? And both of those? You can leverage the technologies to shorten those up to kind of your requirements. So loosely speaking, the in the shorter you make the time may cost you a little bit more money, a little bit more effort. But you can tighten those up pretty much what your requirements are going to be, >>right? Right? And then let's talk about air gaps because air gaps. That means something very, very specific. It literally means classically right, an air gap. There is a space in between these systems until electrons learn how to jump. Um, they're they're they're physically separated. Um, but that's harder and harder to do, right, because everything is now a P I based, and everything is an app that's based on a bunch of other APS, and there's calls and there's, you know, everything is so interconnected now. But you talked about something specifically said, an automated air gap. And you also said that you know, we're putting this data where it is not connected for some period of time. So I wonder if you could explain a little bit more detail how that works, how it's usually configured, um t to reintroduce an air gap into this crazy connected world. >>Yeah, it's kind of going backward to go forward in a lot of ways. When we're careful about the term, we'll use the term logical air gap because you're right, Jeff on Air Gap is there's a gap, and what we're doing is we're manipulating that air gap in a way that most of the time that data are are safe. Data are vaulted, data is on the other side of the air gap, so you can't get there. But we'll bring it up in air. Gap will logically enable that air gap so that there is a connection which enables us to update the data that's in the vault, and then we'll bring that connection back down. And the way that we've architected the solution is that even when it's enabled like that, we've minimized the capability to get into the vault. So, really, if you're a bad actor, if you know everything that's going on, you might be able to prevent the update. But you can't get into the vault unless you're physically there. And, of course, we put some controls on that so that even insiders are very limited what they can do if they get inside the vault and the A. P. T s, the advanced persistent threats. People who are coming from other countries. Since they're not physically there, they can't access that data. >>That's good. So it's on its off, but it's usually off most of the time, so the bad guys can't get across there. >>Yeah, and again it's It's important that even when it's on it za minimal exposure there. So you think about our triad, the confidentiality, integrity, availability. You know, we're blocking them from getting in so they can maybe do a denial of service type of attack. But that's it. They can't get into break into the vault and break things and destroy the data like they would in production. >>I want to shift gears a little bit gym, and I've I've gone to our essay, I think, for the last three or four years of fact, I think it was the last big live event we did in 2020 before everything came to a screeching halt. And, you know, one of the things I find interesting about the security industry is this one of these opportunities for cooperative Shin um within the security industry that even though you might work for a company that competes with another company. You know there's opportunities to work with your peers at other companies. So you have more of a unified front against the bad guys as well as learn from what's going on. Uh, with some of the other you know, people. So you can learn from the from the attacks that they're surfacing. There's interesting, uh, organization called Sheltered Harbor that it came across and doing research for this. You guys have joined it. It was basically it looks like it was built around 100 30. This this article is from earlier in the years. Probably groaning is from February 130 participating financial institutions, which collectively hold 72% of all deposit accounts and 71% of all U. S retail brokerage assets. It's a big organization focused on security, Del joined not as a financial institution but as a vendor. I wonder if you can share what this organizations all about. Why did you guys join and what? Where you see some of the benefits both for you as well as your customers? >>Yeah, there's a lot there, Jeff. I've been part of that process for a little bit over two years and kicked it off after we identified. Sheltered Harbor is an organization that we wanted to work with. So, as you said, founded by some of the banks and credit unions and other financial institutions in the US, and what's unique about it is it's designed to protect the U. S. Financial system and consumer confidence. It's not actually designed to protect the bank. So of course, that's an outcome there if you're protecting consumer confidence than it's better for the banks. But that's really the goal. And so it's a standards based organization that looked at the problem of what happens if a bank it's attacked, what happens to the customers. So they actually came up with the specifications, which follows so closely to what we do with cyber recovery. They identified important data. They built requirements, not technologies, but capabilities that a vault would need to have to protect that data. And then the process is to recover that data if an event occurred. So we talked to the team for a while. We're very proud of what we've been able to accomplish with them is the only solution provider in their advisory program, and the work that we've done with the power protect cyber recovery solution. We have some more news coming out. I'm not permitted toe announce it yet. It's pretty soon, so stay tuned, and it's just been a really great initiative for us to work with, and the team over there is fantastic. >>So I just one or two. If you can share your thoughts as as the role of security has changed over the last several years from, you know, kind of a perimeter based point of view and you know, protection and walls and, uh, firewalls and and and all these things which is completely broken down now to more of a integrated security approach and baking security into your data to your encryption to your applications, your access devices, etcetera and really integrating security more into the broader flow of product development and and delivery and and how that's impacted the security of the of the customers and impacted professionals like you that are trying to look down the road and get ahead of the next. You know, kind of two or three bad things that are coming. How is that security posture really benefited everybody out there? >>It gets a really difficult problem that we just keep working at it again. We don't have a goal, because if we're targeting here, the threat actors is a bad actors. They're gonna be here. I was reading an article today about how they're already the bad actors already employing machine learning to improve what they're doing and how they target their phishing attacks and things like that. So thinking about things like security by design is great. We have millions billions of devices, and if we start from the ground up that those devices have security built in, it makes the rest of the job a lot easier. But that whole integration process is really important to I mentioned before the recovery capability and protect and detect Well, if you look at the nice cybersecurity framework has five pillars that have capabilities within each one, and we need to keep focusing on our capabilities in those space, we can't do one and not the other. So we do multi factor authentication. But we need to look at encryption for our devices. We need to build from the ground up. We need to have those recover capabilities. It's just kind of a never ending process. But I feel like one of the most important things that we've done over the last year, partly driven by the changes that we've had, is that we're finally recognizing that cyber security is a business issue. It's not a nightie issue. So if your digital and your assets are digital, how can you confine this to a nightie group? It's It's the business. It's risk. Let's understand what risk is acceptable cover the risk that isn't and treated like a business process that it ISS. >>That's great, because because I always often wonder, you know, if you think of it as an insurance problem, you know, then you're gonna be in trouble because you can't You can't just lock everything down, right? You gotta you gotta do business. And you always think of the, you know, ships or safest, uh, at harbor. But that's not what ships are built for, right? You can't just lock everything down, but if you take it more of a business approach, so you're you're measuring investments and risk and putting dollar amounts on it. Then you can start to figure out how much should I invest in security because you can't spend ah, 100% of your revenue on security. What is the happy medium? How do you decide and how do you apply that investment where, you know, it's kind of a portfolio strategy problem >>it is. And and that's one of the areas that again my five years in the building, the practice we've seen organizations start to move to. So you want to protect your most important assets the best. And then there are things that you still want to protect, but you can't afford the time, the budget, the operational expense of protecting everything. So let's understand what really drives this business if I'm a law firm might be my billion and document management systems and health care. It's a electronic medical record and manufacturing the manufacturing systems. So let's protect the most important things the best and then kind of moved down from there. We have to understand what those systems are before we can actually protect them. And that's where the business really needs to work more closely. And they are with the I T teams with cyber security teams, >>right, and like, I like a lot of big problems, right? You gotta break it down. You gotta You gotta prioritize. You gotta, you know, start just knocking off what's important and not so overwhelmed by, you know, trying to protect everything to the same degree. This is not practical, and it's not not a good investment. >>That's exactly the case. And there's the ongoing discussions about shortage of people in the cybersecurity space, which there are. But there are things that we can do that to really maximize what those people do, get them to focus on the higher level capabilities and let the tools do some of the things that the tools air good at. >>Right. So, you know, you triggered one last point and we'll wrap on this, but I'll give you the last word. Aziz, you look forward. Two things like automation and two things like artificial intelligence and machine learning that you can apply to make those professionals more effective on automate some stuff. Um, how do you see that evolving? And does that give you big smiles or frowns as you think about your use of AI in a nml versus the bad guys, they have some of the same tools as well. >>They dio and look, we have to use those to keep up. I'll give you example with with power, protect cyber recovery. We already use AI and ML to analyze the data that's in our vault. So how do you know that the data is good? We're not gonna have somebody in the vault looking through the files by leveraging those capabilities. We could give a verdict on that data. And so you know that it's good. I think we we have to continue to be careful that we understand what the tools are. We deploy them in the right way. You can't deploy tool just to deploy honor because it's hot or because it's interesting that goes back to understanding the systems that we need to protect the risks that we can accept or perhaps cover with insurance and the risks that gosh, we really can't accept. We need to make sure that the business continues to operate here, so I think it's great. Um, the communities have really come together. There's more information sharing than ever has gone on. And that's really one of our big weapons against the bad actors. >>All right, Well, Jim, thank you so much for sharing your insight. I think your job security is locked in for the foreseeable future. We didn't even get into five G and I o t and ever increasing attack, surface and sophistication of the bad guys. So thank you for doing what you do and helping keep us safe. Keep your data safe and keeping our companies running. >>Thank you for the opportunity. >>Alright, He's Jim. Mom. Jeff. Thanks for watching the cubes. Continuous coverage of Dell Technology World 2020. The Digital Experience. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> Narrator: Live from Miami, Florida, it's The Cube. Covering IBM's Data in AI Forum, brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to Miami, everybody. You're watching The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. We're here covering the IBM Data and AI Forum. Scott Buckles is here to my right. He's the business unit executive at IBM and long time Cube alum, Daniel Hernandez is the Vice President of Data and AI group. Good to see you guys, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having us. >> Good to see you. >> You're very welcome. We're going to talk about data ops, kind of accelerating the journey to AI around data ops, but what is data ops and how does it fit into AI? Daniel, we'll start with you. >> There's no AI without data. You've got data science to help you build AI. You've got dev ops to help you build apps. You've got nothing to basically help you prepare data for AI. Data ops is the equivalent of dev ops, but for delivering AI ready data. >> So, how are you, Scott, dealing with this topic with customers, is it resonating? Are they leaning into it, or are they saying, "what?" >> No, it's absolutely resonating. We have a lot of customers that are doing a lot of good things on the data science side. But, trying to get the right data at the right people, and do it fast, is a huge problem. They're finding they're spending too much time prepping data, getting the data into the models, and they're not spending enough time failing fast with some of those models, or getting the models that they need to put in production into production fast enough. So, this absolutely resonates with them because I think it's been confusing for a long time. >> So, AI's scary to a lot of people, right? It's a complicated situation, right? And how do you make it less scary? >> Talk about problems that can be solved with it, basically. You want a better customer experience in your contact center, you want a similarly amazing experience when they're interacting with you on the web. How do you do that? AI is simply a way to get it done, and a way to get it done exceptionally well. So, that's how I like to talk about it. I don't start with here's AI, tell me what problems you can solve. Here are the problems you've got, and where appropriate, here's where AI can help. >> So what are some of your favorite problems that you guys are solving with customers. >> Customer and employee care, which, basically, is any business that does business has customers. Customer and employee care are huge a problem space. Catching bad people, financial crimes investigation is a huge one. Fraud, KYC AML as an example. >> National security, things like that, right? >> Yeah. >> You spend all your time with customers, what else? >> Well, customer experience is probably the one that we're seeing the most. The other is being more efficient. Helping businesses solve those problems quicker, faster. Try to find new avenues for revenue. How to cut costs out of their organization, out of their run time. Those are the ones that we see the most. >> So when you say customer experience, immediately chat bots jumps into my head. But I know we're talking more than, sort of a, transcends chat bots, but double click on customer experience, how are people applying machine intelligence to improve customer experience? >> Well, when I think of it, I think about if you call in to Delta, and you have one bad experience, or your airline, whatever that airline may be, that that customer experience could lead to losing that customer forever, and there used to be an old adage that you have one bad experience and you tell 10 people about it, you have a good one, and you tell one person, or two peoples. So, getting the right data to have that experience is where it becomes a challenge and we've seen instances where customers, or excuse me, organizations are literally trying to find the data on the screen while the customer is on hold. So, they're saying, "can I put you on hold?" and they're trying to go out and find it. So, being able to automate finding that data, getting it in the right hands, to the right people, at the right time, in moment's notice, is a great opportunity for AI and machine learning, and that's an example of how we do it. >> So, from a technical standpoint, Daniel, you guys have this IBM Cloud Pak for Data that's going to magic data virtualization thing. Let's take an example that Scott just gave us, think of an airline. I love my mobile app, I can do everything on my mobile app, except there are certain things I can't do, I have to go to the website. There are certain things I have to do with e-commerce that I have to go to the website that I can't do. Sometimes watching a movie, I can't order a movie from the app, I have to go to website, the URL, and order it there and put it on my watch list. So, I presume that there's some technical debt in each of those platforms, and there's no way to get the data from here, and the data from here talking to each other. Is that the kind of problem that you're solving? >> Yes, and in this particular case, you're actually touching on what we mean by customer and employee care everywhere. The interaction you have on your phone should be the same as the interaction and the kind of response on the web, which should be the same, if not better, when you're talking to a human being. How do you have the exceptional customer and employee care, all channels. Today, say the art is, I've got a specific experience for my phone, a specific experience for my website, a specific, different experience in my contact center. The whole work we're doing around Watson Assistant, and it as a virtual assistant, is to be that nervous system that underpins all channels, and with Cloud Pak for Data, we can deliver it anywhere. You want to run your contact center on an IBM Cloud? Great. You want to run it on Amazon, Azure, Google, your own private center, or everything in between, great. Cloud Pak for Data is how you get Watson Assistant, the rest of Watson and our data stack anywhere you want, so you can deliver that same consistent, amazing experience, all channels, anywhere. >> And I know the tone of my question was somewhat negative, but I'm actually optimistic, and there's a couple examples I'll give. I remember Bill Belichick one time said, "Agh, the weather, it can't ever get the weather right," this is probably five, six years ago. Actually, they do pretty well with the weather compared to 10 or 15 years ago. The other is fraud detection. In the last 10 years, fraud detection has become so much better in terms of just the time it takes to identify a fraud, and the number of false positives. Even in the last, I'd say, 12 to 18 months, false positives are way down. I think that's machine intelligence, right? >> I mean, if you're using business rules, they're not way down. They're still way up. If you're using more sophisticated techniques, that are depending upon the operational data to be trained, then they should be way down. But, there is still a lot of these systems that are based on old school business rules that can't keep up. They're producing alerts that, in many cases, are ignored, and because they're ignored, you're susceptible to bad issues. With, especially AI based techniques for fraud detection, you better have good data to train this stuff, which gets back to the whole data ops thing, and training those with good data, which data ops can help you get done. >> And a key part to data ops is the people and the process. It's not just about automating things and automating the data to get it in the right place. You have to modernize those business processes and have the right skills to be able to do that as well. Otherwise, you're not going to make the progress. You're not going to reap the benefits. >> Well, that was actually my next question. What about the people and the process? We were talking before, off camera, about our PA, and he's saying "pave the cow path." But sometimes you actually have to re-engineer the process and you might not have the skill set. So it's people and process, and then technology you lay in. And we've always talked about this, technology is always going to change. Smart technologists will figure it out. But, the people and the process, that's the hardest part. What are you seeing in the field? >> We see a lot of customers struggling with the people and process side, for a variety of reasons. The technology seems to be the focus, but when we talk to customers, we spend a lot of time saying, "well, what needs to change in your business process "when this happens? "How do those business rules need to change "so you don't get those false positives?" Because it doesn't matter at the end of the day. >> So, can we go back to the business rules thing? So, it sounds like the business rules are sort of an outdated, policy based, rigid sort of structure that's enforced no matter what. Versus machine intelligence, which can interpret situations on the fly, but can you add some color to that and explain the difference between what you call sort of business rules based versus AI based. >> So the AI based ones, in this particular case, probably classic statistical machine learning techniques, to do something like know who I am, right? My name is Danny Hernandez, if you were to Google Danny Hernandez, the number one search result is going to be a rapper. There is a rapper that actually just recently came out, he's not even that good, but he's a new one. A statistical machine learning technique would be able to say, "all right, given Daniel "and the context information I know about him, "when I look for Daniel Hernandez, "and I supplement the identity with that "contextual information, it means it's one of "the six that work at IBM." Right? >> Not the rapper. >> Not the rapper. >> Not the rapper. >> Exactly. I don't mind being matched with a rapper, but match me with a good rapper. >> All you've got to do is search Daniel Hernandez and The Cube and you'll find him. >> Ha, right. Bingo. Actually that's true. So, in any case, the AI based techniques basically allow you to isolate who I am, based on more features that you know about me, so that you get me right. Because if you can't even start there, with whom are you transacting, you're not going to have any hope of detecting fraud. Either that, or you're going to get false positives because you're going to associate me with someone that I'm not, and then it's just going to make me upset, because when you should be transacting with me, you're not because you're saying I'm someone I'm not. >> So, that ties back to what we were saying before, know you're customer and anti money laundering. Which, of course, was big, and still is, during the crypto craze. Maybe crypto is not as crazy, but that was a big deal when you had bitcoin at whatever it was. What are some practical applications for KYC AML that you're seeing in the field today? >> I think that what we see a lot of, what we're applying in my business is automating the discovery of data and learning about the lineage of that data. Where did it come from? This was a problem that was really hard to solve 18 months ago, because it took a lot of man power to do it. And as soon as you did it once, it was outdated. So, we've recently released some capabilities within Watson Knowledge Catalog that really help automate that, so that as the data continues to grow, and continues to change, as it always does, that rather than having two, three hundred business analysts or data stewards trying to go figure that out, machine learning can go do that for you. >> So, all the big banks are glomming on to this? >> Absolutely. >> So think about any customer onboarding, right? You better know who your customer is, and you better have provisions around anti money laundering. Otherwise, there's going to be some very serious downside risk. It's just one example of many, for sure. >> Let's talk about some of the data challenges because we talked a lot about digital, digital business, I've always said the difference between a business and a digital business is how they use data. So, what are some of the challenging issues that customers are facing, and particularly, incumbents, Ginni Rometty used the term a couple of events ago, and it might have even been World of Watson, incumbent disruptors, maybe that was the first think, which I thought was a very poignant term. So, what are some of the data challenges that these incumbents are facing, and how is IMB helping solve them? >> For us, one of them that we see is just understanding where their data is. There is a lot of dark data out there that they haven't discovered yet. And what impact is that having on their analytics, what opportunities aren't they taking advantage of, and what risks are they being exposed to by that being out there. Unstructured data is another big part of it as well. Structured data is sort of the easy answer to solving the data problem, >> [Daniel Hernandez] But still hard. >> But still hard. Unstructured data is something that almost feels like an afterthought a lot of times. But, the opportunities and risks there are equally, if not greater, to your business. >> So yeah, what you're saying it's an afterthought, because a lot of times people are saying, "that's too hard." >> Scott Buckles: Right. >> Forget it. >> Scott Buckles: Right. Right. Absolutely. >> Because there's gold in them there hills, right? >> Scott Buckles: Yeah, absolutely. >> So, how does IBM help solve that problem? Is it tooling, is it discovery tooling? >> Well, yeah, so we recently released a product called InstaScan, that helps you to go discover unstructured data within any cloud environment. So, that was released a couple months ago, that's a huge opportunity that we see where customers can actually go and discover that dark data, discover those risks. And then combine that with some of the capabilities that we do with structured data too, so you have a holistic view of where your data is, and start tying that together. >> If I could add, any company that has any operating history is going to have a pretty complex data environment. Any company that wants to employ AI has a fundamental choice. Either I bring my AI to the data, or I bring my data to the AI. Our competition demand that you bring your data to the AI, which is expensive, hard, often impossible. So, if you have any desire to employ this stuff, you had better take the I'm going to bring my AI to the data approach, or be prepared to deal with a multi-year deployment for this stuff. So, that principle difference in how we think about the problem, means that we can help our customers apply AI to problem sets that they otherwise couldn't because they would have to move. And in many cases, they're just abandoning projects all together because of that. >> So, now we're starting to get into sort of data strategy. So, let's talk about data strategy. So, it starts with, I guess, understanding the value of your data. >> [Daniel Hernandez] Start with understanding what you got. >> Yeah, what data do I have. What's the value of that data? How do I get to that data? You just mentioned you can't have a strategy that says, "okay, move all the data into some God box." >> Good luck. >> Yeah. That won't work. So, do customers have coherent data strategies? Are they formulating? Where are we on that maturity curve? >> Absolutely, I think the advent of the CDO role, as the Chief Data Officer role, has really helped bring the awareness that you have to have that enterprise data strategy. >> So, that's a sign. If there's a CDO in the house. >> There's someone working on enterprise, yeah, absolutely. >> So, it's really their role, the CDO's role, to construct the data strategy. >> Absolutely. And one of the challenges that we see, though, in that, is that because it is a new role, is like going back to Daniel's historical operational stuff, right? There's a lot of things you have to sort out within your data strategy of who owns the data, right? Regardless of where it sits within an enterprise, and how are you applying that strategy to those data assets across the business. And that's not an easy challenge. That goes back to the people process side of it. >> Well, right. I bet you if I asked Jim Cavanaugh what's IBM's data strategy, I bet you he'd have a really coherent answer. But I bet you if I asked Scott Hebner, the CMO of the data and AI group, I bet you I'd get a somewhat different answer. And so, there's multiple data strategies, but I guess it's (mumbles) job to make sure that they are coherent and tie in, right? >> Absolutely. >> Am I getting this? >> Absolutely. >> Quick study. >> So, what's IBM's data strategy? (laughs) >> Data is good. >> Data is good. Bring AI to the data. >> Look, I mean, data and AI, that's the name of the business, that's the name of the portfolio that represents our philosophy. No AI without data, increasingly, not a lot of value of data without AI. We have to help our customers understand this, that's a skill, education, point of view problem, and we have to deliver technology that actually works in the wild, in their environment, not as we want them to be, but as they are. Which is often messy. But I think that's our fun. It's the reason we've been here for a while. >> All right, I'll give you guys a last word, we got to run, but both Scott and Daniel, take aways from the event today, things that you're excited about, things that you learned. Just give us the bumper sticker. >> For me, you talk about whether people recognize the need for a data strategy in their role. For me, it's people being pumped about that, being excited about it, recognizing it, and wanting to solve those problems and leverage the capabilities that are out there. >> We've seen a lot of that today. >> Absolutely. And we're at a great time and place where the capabilities and the technologies with machine learning and AI are applicable and real, that they're solving those problems. So, I think that gets everybody excited, which is cool. >> Bring it home, Daniel. >> Excitement, a ton of experimentation with AI, some real issues that are getting in the way of full-scale deployments, a methodology data ops, to deal with those real hardcore data problems in the enterprise, resonating, a technology stack that allows you to implement that as a company is, through Cloud Pak for Data, no matter where they want to run is what they need, and I'm happy we're able to deliver it to them. >> Great. Great segment, guys. Thanks for coming. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> Data, applying AI to that data, scaling with the cloud, that's the innovation cocktail that we talk about all the time on The Cube. Scaling data your way, this is Dave Vellante and we're in Miami at the AI and Data Forum, brought to you by IBM. We'll be right back right after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> from Cambridge, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering M. I. T. Chief Data officer and Information Quality Symposium 2019. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. >> Welcome back to M. I. T. In Cambridge, Massachusetts. Everybody You're watching The Cube, the Leader and Live Tech coverage. My name is Dave Volante, and it's my pleasure to introduce Matt Kobe, who's the vice president of business strategy Analytics of Chicago Bulls. We love talking sports. We love talking data. Matt. Thanks for coming on. >> No problem getting a date. So talk about >> your role. Is the head of analytics for the Bulls? >> Sure. So I work exclusively on the business side of the operation. So we have a separate team that those the basketball side, which is kind of your players stuff. But on the business side, um, what we're focused on is really two things. One is being essentially internal consultants for the rest of the customer facing functions. So we work a lot with ticketing, allow its sponsorship, um, marketing digital, all of those folks that engage with our customer base and then on the backside back end of it, we're building out the technical infrastructure for the organization right. So everything from data warehouse to C. R M to email marketing All of that sits with my team. And so we were a lot of hats, which is exciting. But at the end of the day, we're trying to use data to enhance the customer and fan experience. Um and that's our aim. And that's what we're driving towards >> success in sports. In a larger respect. It's come down to don't be offended by this. Who's got the best geeks? So now your side of the house is not about like you say, player performance about the business performances. But that's it. That's a big part of getting the best players. I mean, if it's successful and all the nuances of the N B, A salary cap and everything else, but I think there is one, and so that makes it even more important. But you're helping fund. You know that in various ways, but so are the other two teams that completely separate. Is there a Chinese wall between them? Are you part of the sort of same group? >> Um, we're pretty separate. So the basketball folks do their thing. The business folks do their thing from an analytic standpoint. We meet and we collaborate on tools and other methods of actually doing the analysis. But in terms of, um, the analysis itself, there is a little bit of separation there, and mainly that is from priority standpoint. Obviously, the basketball stuff is the most important stuff. And so if we're working on both sides that we'd always be doing the basketball stuff and the business stuff needs to get done, >> drag you into exactly okay. But which came first? The chicken or the egg was It was the sort of post Moneyball activity applied to the N B. A. And I want to ask you a question about that. And then somebody said, Hey, we should do this for the business side. Or was the business side of sort of always there? >> I think I think, the business side and probably the last 5 to 7 years you've really seen it grown. So if you look at the N. B. A. I've been with the Bulls for five years. If you look at the N. B. A. 78 years ago, there was a handful of Business analytics teams and those those teams had one or two people at him. Now every single team in the NBA has some sort of business analytics team, and the average staff is seven. So my staff is six full time folks pushed myself, so we'll write it right at the average. And I think what you've seen is everything has become more complex in sports. Right? If you look at ticketing, you've got all the secondary markets. You have all this data flowing in, and they need someone to make sense of all that data. If you look at sponsorship sponsorship, his transition from selling a sign that sits on the side of the court for these truly integrated partnerships, where our partners are coming to us and saying, What do we get out of? This was our return. And so you're seeing a lot more part lot more collaboration between analytics and sponsorship to go back to those partners and say, Hey, here's what we delivered And so I think you it started on the basketball side, certainly because that's that's where the, you know that is the most important piece. But it quickly followed on the business side because they saw the value that that type of thinking can bring in the business. >> So I know this is not, you know, your swim lane, but But, you know, the lore of Billy Beane and Moneyball and all that, a sort of the starting point for sports analytics. Is that Is that Is that a fair characterization? Yeah. I mean, was that Was that really the main spring? >> I think it It probably started even before that. I think if you have got to see Billy being at the M I t Sports Analytics conference and him thought he always references kind of Bill James is first, and so I think it started. Baseball was I wouldn't say the easiest place to start, But it was. It's a one versus one, right? It's pitcher versus batter. In a lot of cases, basketball is a little bit more fluid. It's a team. Sport is a little harder, but I think as technology has advanced, there's been more and more opportunities to do the analytics on the basketball side and on the business side. I think what you're seeing is this huge. What we've heard the first day and 1/2 here, this huge influx of data, not nearly to the levels of the MasterCard's and others of the world. But as more and more things moved to the mobile phone, I think you're going to see this huge influx of data on the business side, and you're going to need the same systems in the same sort of approach to tackle it. >> S O. Bill James is the ultimate sports geek, and he's responsible for all these stats that, no, none of us understand. He's why we don't pay attention to batting average anymore. Of course, I still do. So let's talk about the business side of things. If you think about the business of baseball, you know it's all about maximizing the gate. Yeah, there's there's some revenue, a lot of revenue course from TV. But it's not like football, which is dominated by the by the TV. Basketball, I think, is probably a mix right. You got 80 whatever 82 game season, so filling up the stadium is important. Obviously, N v A has done a great job of of really getting it right. Free agency is like, fascinating. Now >> it's 12 months a year >> scored way. Talk about the NBA all the time and of course, you know, people like celebrities like LeBron have certainly helped, and now a whole batch of others. But what's the money side of the n ba look like? Where's the money coming from? >> Yeah, I mean, I think you certainly have broadcast right, but in many ways, like national broadcast sort of takes care of it itself. In some ways, from the standpoint of my team, doesn't have a lot of control over national broadcast money. That's a league level thing. And so the things that we have control over the two big buckets are ticketing and sponsorship. Those those are the two big buckets of revenue that my team spends a lot of time on. Ticketing is, is one that is important from the standpoint, as you say, which is like, How do we fill the building right? We've got 41 home game, supposed three preseason games. We got 44 events a year. Our goal is to fill the building for all 44 of those events. We do a pretty good job of doing it, but that has cascading effects into other revenue streams. Right, As you think about concessions and merchandise and sponsorship, it's a lot easier to spell spot cell of sponsorship when you're building is full, then if you're building isn't full. And so our focus is on. How do we? How do we fill the building in the most efficient way possible? And as you have things like the secondary market and people have access to tickets in different ways than they did 10 to 15 years ago, I think that becomes increasingly complex. Um, but that's the fun area that's like, That's where we spend a lot of time. There's the pricing, There's inventory management. It's a lot of, you know, is you look a traditional cpg. There's there's some of those same principles being applied, which is how do you are you looking airline right there? They're selling a plane. It's an asset you have to fill. We have ah, building. That's an asset we have to fill, and how do we fill it in the most optimal way? >> So the idea of surge pricing demand supply, But so several years ago, the Red Sox went to a tiered pricing. You guys do the same If the Sox are playing Kansas City Royals tickets way cheaper than if they're playing the Yankees. You guys do a similar. So >> we do it for single game tickets. So far are season ticket holders. It's the same price for every game, but on the price for primary tickets for single games, right? So if we're playing, you know this year will be the Clippers and the Lakers. That price is going to be much more expensive, so we dynamically price on a game to game basis. But our season ticket holders pay this. >> Why don't you do it for the season ticket holders? Um, just haven't gone there yet. >> Yeah, I mean, there's some teams have, right, so there's a few different approaches you convey. Lovely price. Those tickets, I think, for for us, the there's in years past. In the last few years, in particular, there's been a couple of flagship games, and then every other game feels similar. I think this will be the first year where you have 8 to 10 teams that really have a shot at winning the title, and so I think you'll see a more balanced schedule. Um, and so we've We've talked about it a lot. We just haven't gone to that made that move yet? >> Well, a season ticket holder that shares his tickets with seven other guys with red sauce. You could buy a BMW. You share the tickets, so but But I would love it if they didn't do the tiered. Pricing is a season ticket holder, so hope you hold off a while, but I don't know. It could maximize revenues if the Red Sox that was probably not a stupid thing is they're smart people. What about the sponsorships? Is fascinating about the partners looking for our ally. How are you measuring that? You're building your forging a tighter relationship, obviously, with the sponsors in these partners. Yeah, what's that are? Why look like it's >> measured? A variety of relies, largely based on the assets that they deliver. But I think every single partner we talk to these days, I also leave the sponsorship team. So I oversee. It's It's rare in sports, but I stayed over business strategy and Alex and sponsorship team. Um, it's not my title, but in practice, that's what I do. And I think everyone we talked to wants digital right? They want we've got over 25,000,000 social media followers with the Bulls, right? We've got 19,000,000 on Facebook alone. And so sponsors see those numbers and they know that we can deliver impression. They know we can deliver engagement and they want access to those channels. And so, from a return on, I always call a return on objectives, right? Return on investment is a little bit tricky, but return on objectives is if we're trying to reel brand awareness, we're gonna go back to them and say, Here's how many people came to our arena and saw your logo and saw the feature that you had on the scoreboard. If you're on our social media channels or a website, here's the number of impressions you got. Here is the number of engagements you got. I think where we're at now is Maura's Bad Morris. Still better, right? Everyone wants the big numbers. I think where you're starting to see it move, though, is that more isn't always better. We want the right folks engaging with our brands, and that's really what we're starting to think about is if you get 10,000,000 impressions, but they're 10,000,000 impressions to the wrong group of potential customers, that's not terribly helpful. for a brand. We're trying to work with our brands to reach the right demographics that they want to reach in order to actually build that brand awareness they want to build. >> What, What? Your primary social channels. Twitter, Obviously. >> So every platform has a different purpose way. Have Facebook, Twitter, instagram, Snapchat. We're in a week. We bow in in China and you know, every platform has a different function. Twitter's obviously more real time news. Um, you know the timeline stuff, it falls off really quick. Instagram is really the artistic piece of it on, and then Facebook is a blend of both, and so that's kind of how we deploy our channels. We have a whole social team that generates content and pushes that content out. But those are the channels we use and those air incredibly valuable. Now what you're starting to see is those channels are changing very rapidly, based on their own set of algorithms, of how they deliver content of fans. And so we're having to continue to adapt to those changing environments in those social >> show impressions. In the term, impressions varies by various platforms. So so I know. I know I'm more familiar with Twitter impressions. They have the definition. It's not just somebody who might have seen it. It's somebody that they believe actually spent a few seconds looking at. They have some algorithm to figure that out. Yeah. Is that a metric that you finding your brands are are buying into, for example? >> Yeah. I mean, I think certainly there they view it's kind of the old, you know, when you bought TV ads, it's how many households. So my commercial right, it's It's a similar type of metric of how many eyeballs saw a piece of content that we put out. I think we're the metrics. More people are starting to care about his engagements, which is how many of you actually engaged with that piece of content, whether it's a like a common a share, because then that's actual. Yeah, you might have seen it for three seconds, but we know how things work. You're scrolling pretty fast, But if you actually stopped to engage it with something, that's where I think brands are starting to see value. And as we think about our content, we have ah framework that our digital team uses. But one of the pillars of that is thumb stopping. We want to create content that is some stopping that people actually engage with. And that's been a big focus of ours. Last couple years, >> I presume. Using video, huge >> video We've got a whole graphics team that does custom graphics for whether it's stats or for history, historical anniversaries. We have a hole in house production team that does higher end, and then our digital team does more kind of straight from the phone raw footage. So we're using a variety of different mediums toe reach our fans >> that What's your background? How'd you get into all of this? >> I spent seven years in consulting, so I worked for Deloitte on their strategy group out of Chicago, And I worked for CPG companies like at the intersection of Retailer and CPG. So a lot of in store promotional work helping brands think through just General Revenue management, pricing strategy, promotional strategy and, um stumbled upon greatness with the Bulls job. A friend gave me the heads up that they were looking to fill this type of role and I was able to get my resume in the mix and I was lucky enough to get get the job, and it's been when I started. We're single, single, single, so it's a team of one. Five years later, we're a team of six, and we'll probably keep growing. So it's been an exciting ride and >> your background is >> maths. That's eyes business. Undergrad. And then I got a went Indian undergrad business and then went to Kellogg. Northwestern got an MBA on strategy, so that's my background. But it's, you know, I've dabbled in sports. I worked for the Chicago 2016 Olympic bid back in the day when I was at Deloitte. Um, and so it's been It's always been a dream of mine. I just never knew how I get there like I was wanted to work in sports. They just don't know the path. And I'm lucky enough to find the path a lot earlier than I thought. >> How about this conference? I know you have been the other M I T. Event. How about this one? How we found some of the key takeaways. Think you >> think it's been great because a lot of the conferences we go to our really sports focus? So you've got the M. I T Sports Analytics conference. You have seat. You have n b a type, um, programming that they put on. But it's nice to get out of sports and sort of see how other bigger industries are thinking about some of the problems specifically around data management and the influx of data and how they're thinking about it. It's always nice to kind of elevated. Just have some room to breathe and think and meet people that are not in sports and start to build those, you know, relationships and with thought leaders and things like that. So it's been great. It's my first time here. What are probably back >> good that Well, hopefully get to see a game, even though that stocks are playing that well. Thanks so much for coming in Cuba. No problems here on your own. You have me. It was great to have you. All right. Keep right, everybody. I'll be back with our next guest with Paul Gill on day Volante here in the house. You're watching the cue from M I T CEO. I cube. Right back

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering A W s reinforce 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web service is and its ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back. Everyone keeps live coverage here in Boston. Messages of AWS reinforce That's Amazon. Webster's his first inaugural commerce around cloud security on John Kerry with David Lantz. One of the top stories here, the announced being announced here reinforced is the VPC traffic nearing and we wanted to bring in alumni and friend Mike Banner was the VP of marketing at a Vectra who specializes in networking. Welcome to the Q. We go way back. HP networking got a hot start up here so wanted to really bring you in to help unpack this VPC traffic mirroring product is probably medias announcement of everything on stage. That other stuff was general availability of security have which is great great product, Absolutely. And guard guard duty. Well, all this other stuff have it. But the VPC traffic nearing is a killer feature for a lot of reasons, absolutely. But it brings some challenges and some opportunities that might be downstream. I don't get the thoughts on what is your take on the BBC traffic nearing >> a tte. The highest level brings a lot of value because it allows you get visibility and something that's really opaque, which is the traffic within the cloud. And in the past, the way people were solving this was they had to put an agent on the workload, and nobody wants that one. It's hard to manage. You don't want dozens to hundreds or thousands of agents, and also it's going to slow things down. On third, it could be subverted. You get the advanced attacker in there. He knows how to get below that level and operated on in a way where he can hide his communication and and his behavior isn't seen. With traffic nearing that, we're getting a copy of the packet from below. The hyper visor cannot be subverted, and so we're seeing everything, and we're also not slowing down the traffic in the virtual private cloud. So it allows us to extract just the right data for a security application, which is our case, metadata and enrich it with information that's necessary for detecting threats and also of performing an investigation. >> Yeah, it was definitely the announcement that everybody has been talking about has the buzz. So from a from a partner perspective, how do you guys tie into that? What do you do? Was the value that you bring to the customer, >> So the value that we're bringing really stems from what you can do with our platform. There's two things everybody is looking to do with him at the highest level, which is detect threats and respond to threats. On the detection side, we could take the metadata that we've extracted and we've enriched. We're running through machine learning algorithms, and from there we not only get a detection, but we can correlated to the workers we're seeing it on. And so we could present much more of an incident report rather than just a security alert, saying, Hey, something bad happened over there. It's not just something bad happened, but these four bad things happen and they happen in this time sequence over this period of time, and it involved these other work looks. We can give you a sense of what the attack campaign looks like. So you get a sense of like with cancer, such as you have bad cells in your liver, but they've metastasized to these other places. Way also will keep that metadata in something we call cognito recall, which is in AWS. And it has pre built analytics and save searches so that once you get that early warning signal from cognito detect, you know exactly where to start looking for. You can peel back all the unrelated metadata, and you can look specifically at what's happened during the time of that incident. In order, perform your threat investigation and respond rapidly to that threat. >> So you guys do have a lot of machine intelligence. OK, ay, ay chops. How close are we to be able to use that guy to really identify? Detect, but begin to automate responses? We there yet eyes. It's something that people want don't want. >> We're getting close to being there. It's answer your first question, and people are sure that they want it yet. And here's some of the rationale behind it. You know, like we generally say that Aria is pretty smart, but security operations people are still the brains of the operation. There's so much human intelligence, so much contextual knowledge that a security operations person can apply to the threats that we detect. They can look at something and say, Oh, yeah, I see the user account. The service is being turned on from, you know, this particular workload. I know exactly what's happening with that. They add so much value. So we look at what we're doing is augmenting the security operations team. We're reducing their workload by taking all the mundane work and automating that and putting the right details at their fingertips so they could take action. Now there's some things that are highly repeatable that they do like to use playbooks for So we partner with companies like Phantom, which got bought by spunk, and to Mr which Palazzo Networks acquired. They've built some really good playbooks for some of those well defying situations. And there was a couple presentations on the floor that talked about those use >> cases. Fan of fan was pretty good. Solid product was built in the security hub. Suit helps nice product, but I'll get back to the VPC traffic, not smearing. It makes so much sense. It's about time. Yes, Finally they got it done. This make any sense? It wasn't done before, but I gotta ask first with the analytics, you and you said on the Q. Before network doesn't lie, >> the network is no line >> they were doesn't lie with subversion pieces of key piece. It's better be the lowest level possible. That's a great spot for the data. So totally agree. Where do you guys create Valley? Because now that everyone's got available BBC traffic mirroring How do you guys take advantage of that? What's next for you guys is that Where's the differentiation come from? Where's the value go next? >> Yeah, there's really three things that I tend to focus on. One is we enrich the metadata that we're extracting with a lot of important data that makes it. It really accelerates the threat investigation. So things like directionality, things like building a notion of what's the identity of the workload or when you're running us on prem. The device, because I P addresses changed. There's dynamic things in there, so having a sense of of consistency over a period of time is extremely valuable for performing a threat investigation so that information gets put in tow. Recall for the metadata store. If people have a data leak that they wanna have ascended to, whether it's elastic or spawn, Kafka then that is included in what we send to them and Zeke formatting use. Others eat tooling so they're not wasting any money there. And in the second piece is around the way that we build analytics. There's always, ah, a pairing of somebody from security research with the data scientist. This is the security researcher explains the tools, the tactics, the techniques of the attacker. So that way, the data scientist isn't being completely random about what features do they want to find in the network traffic. They're being really specific to what features are gonna actually pair to that tool, tactic and technique. So that way, the efficacy of the algorithm is better. We've been doing this for five plus years, and history speaks for something because some of the learning we've had is all right. In the beginning, there were maybe a couple different supervised techniques to apply. Well, now we're applying those supervised techniques with some deep learning techniques. So that way, the performance of the algorithm is actually 90% more effective than it was five years ago. >> Appreciating with software. Get the data extract the data, which the metadata, Yes, you're doing. Anyway. Now, It's more efficient, correct, low speed, No, no problems with informants in the agents you mentioned earlier. Now it's better data impact the customers. What's the What's the revelation here For the end of the day, your customer and Amazons customers through you? What do they get out of it? What's the benefit to them? >> So it's all about reducing the time to detect in the time to respond. Way had one of our fortune to 50 customers present last week at the Gardener Security Summit. Still on stage. Gentlemen from Parker Hannifin talked about how they had an incident that they got an urgent alert from from Cognito. It told him about an attack campaign. He was immediately alerted the 45 different machines that were sending data to the cloud. He automatically knew about what were the patterns of data, the volume of data. They immediately know exactly what the service is that were being used with in the cloud. They were able to respond to this and get it all under control. Listen 24 hours, but it's because they had the right data at their fingertips to make rapid decisions before there was any risk. You know what they ended up finding was it was actually a new application, but somebody had actually not followed the procedures of the organization that keeps them compliant with so many of their end users. In the end, it's saved tremendous time and money, and if that was a real breach, it would have actually prevented them from losing proprietary information. >> Well, historically, it would take 250 days to even find out that there was a breach, right? And then by then who knows what What's been exfiltrate ID? >> Yeah, we had a couple. We had a couple of firms that run Red team exercises for a living come by and they said, I said to them, Do you know who we are? And they said, Of course we know where you are. There's one tool out there, then finds us. It's victory. That's >> a That's a kind of historical on Prem. So what do you do for on Pramuk? This is all running any ws. Is it cloud only? >> It's actually both, so we know that there's a lot of companies that come here that have never owned a server, and everything's been in AWS from day one and for I t. Exactly. And for them waken run everything. We have the sensor attached to the VPC traffic nearing in AWS. We could have the brain of the cognitive platform in eight of us, you know. So for them they don't need anything on prime. There's a lot of people that are in the lift and shift mode. It can be on Prem and in eight of us, eh? So they can choose where they want the brain. And they could have sensors in both places. And we have people that are coming to this event that their hybrid cloud, they've got I t infrastructure in Azure. But they have production in eight of us and they have stuff that's on Prem. And we could meet that need to because we work with the V Top from Azure and so that we're not religious about that. It's all about giving the right data right place, reducing the time to detective respond, >> Mike, Thanks for coming and sharing the insights on the VP. Your perspective on the vpc traffic mirror appreciated. Give a quick plug for the company. What you guys working on? What's the key focus? You hiring. Just got some big funding news. Take a minute to get the plug in for electric. >> Yeah, So we've gone through several years of consecutive more than doubling in. Not in a recurring revenue. I've been really fortunate to have to be earning a lot of customer business from the largest enterprises in the world. Recently had funding $100,000,000 led by T C V out of Menlo Park. Total capitalization is over to 22 right now on the path to continue that doubling. But, you know, we've been really focusing on moving where the you know already being where the puck is going to by working with Amazon. Advance on the traffic nearing. And, you know, we know that today people are using containers in the V M environment. We know that you know where they want to go. Is more serverless on, you know, leveraging containers more. You know, we're already going in that direction. So >> great to see congratulates we've known each other for many, many years is our 10th anniversary of the Q. You were on year one. Great to know you. And congratulations. Successive victor and great announcement. Amazon gives you a tailwind. >> Thanks a lot. It's great to see your growth as well. Congratulations. >> Thanks, Mike. Mike Banning unpacking the relevance of the VPC traffic mirroring feature. >> This is kind >> of conversation we're having here. Deep conversation around stuff that matters around security and cloud security. Of course, the cubes bring any coverage from the inaugural event it reinforced for me. Ws will be right back after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live from Miami Beach, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering VeeamON 2019. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to the Fontainebleau, Miami, everybody. My name is Dave Vellante, I'm here with my co-host for this segment, Justin Warren. Justin it's great to see you. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, day two of our coverage of VeeamON 2019 here in Miami. Jason Buffington, @Jbuff is here, he's the vice president of solution strategy congratulations on the promotion and great to see you again, my friend. >> Thank you very much. >> Dave: And Nathan Hughes who is the IT director at Flex-N-Gate. Great to see you, thanks for coming on. We love to get the customer's perspective, so welcome. >> Great to be here. >> Okay, so, Jason let me start with you. Former analyst, you've been at Veeam now for long enough to A, get promoted, but also, get the Kool-Aid injection, you're wearing the green, and, what are the big trends that you're seeing in the market that are really driving this next era, what do guys call it? Act two of data protection? >> Sure. So, I preached on this even before I joined Veeam that every 10 years or so, when the industry shifts the platform of choice, the data protection vendors almost always reset, right? The people that lead in NetWare don't lead in Windows. The people that lead in Windows didn't lead in Vert. The next wave is we're moving from servers to services. Right, we're going from on prem into cloud and so, and every time the problem is the secret sauce doesn't line up, right? So you got to reinvent yourself each time. And what we saw in the past generations, what we learned from, is, you can't be so busy taking care of your install base that you forget to keep innovating on what that next platform is and so for us, act two is all about cloud. We're going to take everything we know about reliability but we're moving into cloud. The difference is, that in virtualization there was one hero scenario. VMs, right? This time around it's IaaS, it's SaaS, it's PaaS, it's using cloud storage, it's BaaS and DRaaS, there's not a single hero scenario which means we have a lot more innovation to do. That's round two. >> And you made that point today, you used the Archimedes quote, give me a lever and a fulcrum and I'll change the world. You used the analogy of backup as now becoming much more than just backup, it's data protection, it's data management, we're going to get into that. And test some of that with Nathan. So, Nathan, tell us about Flex-N-Gate what does the company do and what does your role as IT director entail? >> Okay, so Flex-N-Gate is a tier one automotive supplier. Which means that we provide parts, most of the things that go into a car besides electronics and glass, to the final automotive makers. So most of the companies that you're familiar with when you go to buy one. >> Okay, so you guys are global, I think you've got what, 24,000 associates worldwide, 64 locations. So what're some of the things that are, fundamental drivers of your business, that are rippling through to your IT strategy? >> Well, our business is varied in the sense that we do a lot of different things in house so, we do, obviously, manufacturing, that's a big part of what we do. And then, even that is broken down into different kinds and then beyond manufacturing we have advanced product development and engineering so we do a lot of that in house. >> Dave: You support it all? >> Yes. >> So you've got diverse lines of business, you've got different roles and personas, you know, engineers versus business people versus finance people. And you got to make 'em all happy. >> We've got to make 'em all happy. >> So, one of the things I love about manufacturing examples, is if you think about it it's the two extremes of high tech and low tech, right? On the low tech side of things you've got this manufacturing floor and it's just producing real stuff, not the zeros and ones that we live with, but real things come off this line. And then you have the engineering and R and D side. Where they're absolutely focused on stuff that comes out of some engineer's head into a computer, which is truly unique data, so, one of the things I love about the story is, talk about the downtime challenges you have around the manufacturing floor. Because I learned some things when we first met, that I think is phenomenal when it comes to manufacturing things that I didn't realize. >> Sure. So, we have a lot of different kinds of manufacturing environments. Some of them are more passive and some of them are more active. The most active environments are, a form of manufacturing known as sequencing. And it's sort of where you bring final assembly of parts together right before they go to the customer. The way that customers order up parts these days, it's not like they used to back in the 70s and 80s. Where they would warehouse huge volumes of everything on their site and then just draw it down if they needed it. And you just kept the queue full. Now they want everything just in time delivery. So they basically want parts to come to the line right when they're needed and actually in the order they're needed. So, a final car maker, they're not necessarily making, 300 of the same thing in a row, they're going to make one of this in blue and one of that in red and they're all going to be sequenced behind each other, one right after the other on the assembly line. And they want the parts from the suppliers to come in the exact right order for that environment. So, the challenge with that from our perspective is that we have trucking windows that are between 30, maybe 60 minutes on the high end, and if anything goes badly, you can put the customer down. And now you're talking about stopping production at Ford, Chrysler, GM, whatever. And that's a lot of money and a lot of other suppliers impacted. >> Dave: So this is a data problem isn't it? >> Yeah, it definitely is. And it's an interesting point, 'cause, you talk about sequencing. Veeam has their own sequence about how customers use the product and they start with backup, everything starts with backup, and then they move further to the right so that you get, ideally, to fully automated data protection. So, what are you actually using Veeam for today? And where do you see yourself going with Veeam? >> So, right now, we're using Veeam primarily as backup and recovery. It's how we started with it. We came from another product that was, great conceptually, but in the real world it had terrible reliability and its performance was very poor as time went on and so, when Veeam came on the scene it was a breath of fresh air because we got to the place where we knew that what we had was dependable, it was reliable. We got to understand how the product worked and to improve the way that we'd implemented it. And so, one of the key features in Veeam that really actually excited us, especially in those sequencing environments are these instant recovery options, right? So, we were used to the idea of having to write down a VM out of snapshot storage. And then being put in a position where it might take an hour, two hours, three hours before you could get that thing back online now, or again, to be able to launch that right out of snapshot storage was a blessing in the industry we're in. >> Yeah, did you see the tech demo yesterday where they were showing off how you could do an instant recovery directly from cloud storage? >> Yes, yeah. >> Did that get you excited? >> Yes. That is exciting. >> Are you using cloud at the moment or is this something that you're looking to move towards? >> Cloud is something we're sort of investigating but it's not something that we're actively utilizing right now. >> So this instance recovery, you guys obviously make a big deal out of that, I was talking to Danny Allan yesterday offline about it. He claims it's unique in the industry. And I asked him a question, I said specifically, if you lose the catalog, can I actually get the data back? And he said yes. And I'm like, that sounds like magic. So, so I guess my question to maybe both of you is, instant, how instant? And how does it actually work? (he laughs) >> It just works, isn't that? >> It just works! >> It's just magic, new tagline? >> I guess we don't have to get into the weeds but when you say, when I hear instant recovery, we're talking like, (fingers clicking) instantaneous recovery with, very short RTOs? >> To us what that means is that in practice, we can expect to have a VM from snapshot data back into production in about a five minute window. >> Dave: Five minutes? Okay. >> And that is sufficient for our needs in any environment. >> Okay, so now we're talking RTO, right? And then, what about, so we said 64 sites across the world, 24,000 associates, is Veeam your enterprise wide data protection strategy or are you rolling it out now? Where are you at? >> Yes, no. Veeam, we started with it in a handful of key sites. And we were using it to specifically back up SharePoint and a few other platforms. But once we understood what the product was capable of, and we were sort of reaching the end of our rope with this former product, yeah, we began an active roll out and we've now had Veeam in our facilities for five, six years. >> So you swept the floor of that previous product. And how complicated was it for you to move from the legacy product to Veeam? >> It was a challenge just rethinking the way that we do things, the previous product, one thing that it really had going for it, if this could be considered a positive, I guess, is that it was very very simple to set up. So, you could take an entry level IT administrator and they just next, next, next, next, next. And it would do all the things that they needed it to do. But the problem was that in the real world, that was sort of the Achilles' Heel, because, it meant that it wasn't very well customized and it meant also that, the way that they've developed that product, it became performance, it had poor performance. >> So the reason I ask that question is because, so many times customers are stuck. And it's like they don't want to move, because it's a pain. But the longer they go, the more costly it is, down the road. So I'm always looking to IT practitioners like, advice that you would give in terms of others, things that you might do differently if you had a mulligan, I don't know, maybe you would've started sooner, or maybe there were some things that you'd do differently. What would you advise? >> Yeah, I mean, if we'd understood, the whole context of what was happening with that other product, we would've moved sooner. And the one thing that I will say about Veeam is, it's not click and point. It does involve a little more setup. But the Veeam team is excellent when it comes to support. So there's nothing to fear in that category because they stand behind their product and it's very easy to get qualified technicians to help you out. >> Is that by design? >> I don't know if it's. Well, the being great to work with, yes, that's by design. >> Yeah, but I mean. >> I was talking to Danny yesterday and asked about the interface thing. Because there is always that tension between making it really really simple to use but then it doesn't have any knobs to change when you need to. >> That's what I'm asking. >> But it can't be too complex either. >> Our gap actually comes a little bit later in the process, right? So, you asked earlier about, in what ways do you use Veeam? And we think about Veeam as a progression, right? So, everybody if they're using Veeam at all, they're using it for Veeam backup and replication and because foundationally, until you can protect your stuff, right? Until you can reliably do that, all the other stuff that you'd like to do around data management is aspirational and unattainable at best, right? So, we think the journey comes in at yeah, it is pretty easy, to go next, next, next, finish. Just a few tweaks, right? To get backup going. But then when you go beyond that, now there's a whole range of other things you can do, right? So Danny, I'm sure, talked about DataLabs yesterday. The orchestration engine, those are not, next, next, next, finish. But anything that's worthwhile takes a little bit of effort, right? So as we pivot from, now that you've solved backup, then you can do those other things and that's where we really start going back into something which is really more expertise driven. >> Well, and it's early days too and as you get more data and more experience you can begin to automate things. >> Yeah, absolutely. So Justin was asking, Nathan, where the direction is. Today it's really backup. You've seen the stages where, talking about full automation. Is that something that, is on the horizon, it is sort of near term, midterm, longterm? >> I mean, coming to the conference, our experience with backup, or Veeam, is primarily backup and recovery operations but, I've seen a lot of things in the last few days that have piqued my interest. Particularly when it comes to the cloud integration. That's being actively baked into the product now. And, some of the automated, API stuff, that's being built into the product. Any place where I can get to where we simplify our procedures for recovery, that's a plus. So I'm really excited about the idea of the virtual labs, being able to actively test backup on a regular basis without human intervention and have reporting out of that. Those are things that I don't see in any other product that's out there. >> You know, there's another piece of the innovation that we should think through, and, so we've talked about the sequencing side which is where we focus on RTO, how fast can you get back and running again? And when you and I talked earlier, the example that we worked on was think of a zipper, right? You've got the bumpers coming in to a line of cars and if either side slows down, everything breaks, and at the end, by the way, is the truck, right? And everything has to come at the same time at the same rate, if there's downtime on either side of the source, you're done. But that's an RTO problem. The engineering side, for high tech, is an RPO problem, right? You have unique stuff coming out of somebody's brain into a PC and it'll never come out that way again. And so, when we look at backup and replication, that should be the next pieces to go on. And then as you mentioned, DataLabs becomes really interesting and orchestration, so. >> Well speaking of human brains, and you kind of touched on it, Nathan, that you came here to learn some things and you've learned things from different sessions. So, what is it about coming to VeeamON that is worth the time for IT practitioners like yourself? >> I think it's all those, I mean we were talking about Veeam, doing backup and recovery operations, fairly straightforwardly, in terms of getting in, but once you see some of this stuff here at a conference like this, you get a better sense of all the more, elaborate aspects of the product. And, you wouldn't get that >> See the possibilities. >> I think, if you were just sitting in front of it using it conventionally, this is a good place to really learn the depth and the level that you can go with it. >> And you're like most of your peers here, is that right, highly virtualized, is that right? Lot of Microsoft apps. And, they say, mid-sized global organization, actually kind of bumping up into big. >> Nathan: Sure. >> Yeah, cool. I asked about the data problem before, it sounds like the zipper's coming together, that's some funky math that you got to figure out to make sure everything's there. So, talk about the data angle. How important data is to your organization, we know much data's growing, data's the new oil, all those promides but, what about your organization specifically as it relates to a digital strategy? It's a buzzword that we hear a lot but, does it have meaning for you, and what does it mean? >> Data is vital in any organization. I mean, we were referencing earlier, how you've got low tech in manufacturing, or at least people think of it as lower tech. And then high tech in R and D, and how those things merge together in a single company. But the reality is all of that is data driven, right? Even when you go to the shop floor, all your scheduling, all your automation equipment, all this stuff is talking and it's all laying down data. You're putting rivets in the parts, you're probably taking pictures of that now with imagers when you're in manufacturing. And you do that so that if you get 300 bad ones you can see exactly when that started and what happened at the machine level, right? So, >> That's a good one. >> We're just constantly collecting massive volumes of new data, and being able to store that reliably is everything. >> Well, and the reason I'm asking is you guys have been around for a while and your a highly distributed organization so, in the old days, even still today, you'd build, you'd get a server for an application, you'd harden that application, you'd secure that box and the application running on it, you'd lock the data inside and, my question is, can, the backup approach, the data protection approach, the data management, or whatever we want to call it, can it help solve that data silo problem? Is that part of the strategy or is it just too early for that? >> I'm, sorry, I'm going to get you to repeat that question in a slightly different way. >> Yeah so, am I correct that you've got data in silos from all the years and years and years of building up applications and-- >> I mean, we have-- >> And can you use something like Veeam to help unify that data model? >> Draw that all together? Yeah. I think a lot of that has, it's more on the hosting side, right? So it depends on how those systems were rolled out originally and all that kind of thing. But yeah, as we've moved towards Veeam, we've necessarily rebuilt some of those systems in such a way that they are more aggregated and that Veeam can pick them up in an integrated kind of way. >> You see that as a common theme? Veeam as one of the levers of the fulcrum to new data architecture? >> We're getting there, so here's the trick. So, first you got to solve for basic protection, right? But the next thing along the way to really get towards data management is you got to know what you got, right? You got to know what's actually in those zeros and ones. And so, some of the things that you've already seen from us are around what we do around GDPR compliance, some of the things we do around sanitization of data for DevOps scenarios and reuse scenarios. All of that opens up a box of, okay, now that the data is curated. Now that it's ingested into our system, what else can you do with it? You know, when I talk to C-level execs, what I tell them is, data protection, no matter who it comes from, including Veeam, is really expensive if the only thing you do is put that data in a box and wait for bad things to happen, right? Now the good news is, bad things are going to happen, so you're going to get ROI. But better is don't just leave your data in a box, right? Do other stuff with that data, unlock the value of it and some of that value comes in, now that I'm more aware of it, let's reduce some of the copies, let's reduce some of the compliance mandates. Let's only put data that has sovereignty requirements where it goes, but to do all of that, you got to know what you got. >> Go ahead, please. >> There was some impressive demo yesterday about exactly that, so, we have the data. You can use the API to script it and you can do all kinds of, basically, you're limited by your imagination. So it's going to be fascinating to see what customers do with it once they've put it in place, they've got their data protected. And then they start playing with things, come to a conference like this and learn, ooh, I might just give that a try on my data when I get back home. >> That's right. >> We'll give the customer the last word, Nathan. Impressions of VeeamON 2019? >> It's been great. And like I say, if you're a company that's been using Veeam even for a while, and you have your entry level setup for backup and recovery and I think there's a lot of, probably, companies out there that use Veeam in that kind of way, this is a great place to have a better understanding of all that's available to you in that product. And there's a lot more than just meets the eye. >> And it's fun, good food, fun people. Thanks you guys for coming on, really appreciate it. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Alright, keep it right there, buddy, we'll be back with our next guest, you're watching theCUBE, Dave Vellante, Justin Warren, and Peter Burris is also here. VeeamON 2019, we'll be right back. (electronic music)

(upbeat theme music plays) >> Live from Atlanta, Georgia, it's theCube. Covering Citrix Synergy, Atlanta, 2019, brought to you by Citrix. >> Hi, welcome back to theCube. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend, and we are live in Atlanta, Georgia for Citrix Synergy, 2019. We are pleased to welcome Jack Gold to The Cube, President and founder of Jack Gold & Associates. Jack, it's great to have you join Keith and me this afternoon. >> Thank you for having me. >> So, we had a great day. We've talked to eight or nine folks or so, lot's of really relevant exciting news from Citrix this morning. Talking about the employee experience as, and how I kind of interpreted it, as a catalyst for digital transformation, cultural transformation. You've been working with Citrix for a long time. I'd love to get your perspective on not just what you heard today from Citrix, and with Google and Microsoft, but in the last year or so since they've really kind of done a re-brand effort. What're your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, it's interesting from a Citrix perspective. Citrix, the old Citrix I guess I would put in quotes right, was always known as the VDI company. I've got, you know, the screen that will talk to the server, that will talk to whatever other apps I need it to talk to, and I can have a nice thin client sitting on my desktop and I don't have to spend a lot of money. And I also don't have to worry about if I'm going to bank people stealing stuff off the hard drive, or whatever. They've made a pretty significant transition that was the old work space, if you will. The modern work spaces which is where Citrix is really moving is one where, look we've all grown up with smart phones for the last ten or fifteen years, our kids don't know anything different. They're not going to deal with anything that's complex, anything where I have to log in and out of applications, anything where I have to switch between screens, this just doesn't make any sense for them. And so, what we're seeing Citrix do is move into an environment where, as I said, it's about the modern workspace, it's about being able to help me do my job not getting in my way of me doing my job, and that's really the transition. It's not just Citrix, the industry is moving in that direction as well, but Citrix is really at the forefront of making a lot of that work now. >> So, Jack, talk to us about the new promise of the new Citrix. The, if you remember me, it had to have be about seven years ago, I did a blog post of running Windows XP on your iPad. It was taking, you know, the then desktop solution and running it on your iPad. >> (Jack) Sure. >> And it was a cool trick. But we talked about, today, we would hope by today, that mobile technology would of forced companies to rewrite applications, for a mobile first experience. But that simply hasn't happened. So, presenting a bad application on to a mobile dot, to a mobile work station, or a mobile device, doesn't work. We end up packing in, trying it, and squeezing, and trying to get our work done, how is Citrix promising to change that experience, even versus their competitors? >> Sure. Well, first of all so two bad's don't make a good. Right. Having a bad app on a bad device doesn't make it good. >> (Keith) Right. >> Doesn't make it easy to use, doesn't help me get my job done. What we really are talking about, now, is the ability to build a workspace. Something where I sit and look at, that helps me get my job done, as opposed to getting in the way. Which means that, instead of having to punch fourteen different holes, or you know, icons and sit at my keyboard and type forty-eight different commands and do thirty-eight different log-ins as each one is different, and by the way I couldn't remember them so I just called the help desk in-between, and that's another half an hour of my time that I didn't want to, that I wasted. >> (laughs) Give me my word perfect templates. >> (Lisa laughs) >> (Jack) There you go, there you go, word perfect I remember that no so well. I remember it well not so nicely. What we're really trying to focus on now is user experience, right. What we're really trying to focus on is if, if you wanted to get your work done, I want to make it easy. Think about it as going to a grocery store. If you can't, if you've got a list of groceries and you can't find what you want in five minutes, you leave, you go somewhere else. You go to another grocery store where things are much easier to find. It's the same at work, or it should be the same at work. Now, that said, a lot of apps and organizations, especially big enterprises where they have, some can have literally thousands of apps, are not going away. The notion that everything is going to go into the modern workspace, where everything looks like a phone, it's a nice idea, it's properly not going to happen. Legacy apps will be legacy apps for a very long time, it's like mainframes are dead, guess what, they're still around. That said, that doesn't mean that you can't take some of those legacy apps and make them easier to use with the proper front-end. And that's really what Citrix is trying to do with the workspaces, and other's again, it's not just Citrix in this, we have to be fair there are lots people working in this space. But, if you can make the front-end workspace more attractive, easier to use, easier to navigate, even if I've got old, clunky stuff in the background. For me as a user, you can give me back fifteen, twenty, thirty minutes a day, an hour a day, that's really productivity. Look, if you're paying me a hundred dollars an hour, and you save me an hour a day you just made a hundred dollars every day that I'm working at that company, that sounds like a lot, but there are people who make that kind of money. Or even a fifty or twenty-five dollars, it all adds up. And so, what we're really doing is trying to move into an environment where if I can make you more productive but making things more easier for you to navigate, and getting in and our of applications more quickly, getting more information to me more quickly, which makes the overall organization more productive because I'm sharing more information with you, then that's a real win-win, and that's where I think Citrix is really trying to position itself, and doing a fairly good job at doing that. Clearly they don't have all of the components yet, but then no one does. This is an ongoing process. >> So, employee experience is table-stakes for any business, as we look at the modern workforce it's highly disrupted. >> (Jack) Yes. >> It's composed of five different generations. >> (Jack) Yes. >> Who have varying expertise with technology. It is also demanding because we're all consumers. >> (Jack) Yes. >> And so we have this expectation, or this, yeah I'd say expectation that I want to be able to go in and have this personalized experience. I don't want to have to become an expert in sales-force because I might need to understand, can I talk to that costumer and ask them to be a reference? How much time are you going to take? But this personalization is becoming more and more critical as we see this influence from the consumer side. >> Right. >> Were some of the things that you heard today from Citrix, what are your thoughts on how their going to be able to improve that more personalized employee experience? >> So people think of personalization, I think sometimes, too narrowly. For some people personalization is, you know, I've got my phone out, and I have the apps that I want on my phone and that's personalization. I think of it a little bit differently. We need to extend personalization. When I'm at work, what I want is not just the apps I want, clearly I want those, right, but also the ability, to get help with those apps as I need it, right. And so where Citrix is going is trying to put intelligence into the system, so that when I'm interacting with back-end solutions or my neighbors, or with teams collaboration, I get the assistance I need to make it easier for me to do that work. It's not just the apps, it's also help with the apps. And if we can do that, that's really what we want. We go, you know, if I have a problem with my laptop I'm going to come to you and say, hey, you did this yesterday what was the result, can you help me for five minutes? Five minutes is never five minutes, it's usually an hour and a half, but still. I'll come to you. Why can't I have an app on my desk that does the same thing? I'm having trouble. Help me. Fix it. Let me know what I'm doing wrong, or let me know how I can do it better. And that's where Citrix is trying to go with the analytics that they've got in place. Which is huge, I think they're underplaying that, because I think that the whole analytic space in making things easier for people to use, because in understanding where my problems are is huge, and that's going to pick up. The notion of having a nice pretty, pretty may not be the right word, but attractive at least, workspace for me to go in that doesn't get frustrated, frustration is a killer in productivity, as everyone knows. There are examples I've heard multiple people tell me now that they go out and hire, especially with millennials, that go out an hire twenty or thirty new employees, and half of them quit within a week because their systems are so bad that they get so frustrated that they're not going to work there. So, the notion of having a modern workspace where I get the applications that I need, I get the assistance I need, because of the analytics of that backend telling the systems what I need, and making it easier for me to do it. And then allowing me to be productive not just for myself, but for the organization, is where we all need to go and I think that Citrix is making some real progress going that way. >> (Keith) Well Jack, we're talking about products that haven't quite been released yet, so I'm trying to get a sense or, worth's the right built versus buy stage, in complexity Citrix should be? You know, I can make it apple pie by going out and picking the apple. >> (Jack laughs) Right. >> And making my own crust or, I can go buy filling, or I can just go buy any mince pie, stick it in the oven and warm it up. Three very different experiences. Three different layers of investment, and outcomes frankly. In this world, I can go hire application developers to write these many apps, to write these customizations, to write these integrations, but that's, I think that's akin to picking the apple and that just simply doesn't scale. But, also while any mince pie is okay every now and again, I want, you know, something of higher quality. Where do you think Citrix is on the kind of range of built versus buy with this intelligent experience? >> So built versus buy is a very interesting phenomenon. And it's interesting because a lot of it has to do with where you think you are right now in the world, right. You know you mention going out and getting developers and building your own, that's all well and good, it doesn't scale, and by the way in today's market you can't find them to begin with. So you often don't even have a choice. So that's number one. Number two is that there are companies out there that still think for competitive advantage that they have to do everything from scratch, like building your pie. Yes, you probably make the best pie in the world, but guess what, sometimes a good enough pie is good enough. Right, and if you're in business sometimes good enough is the only way you survive. It doesn't have to be a hundred percent perfect, ninety percent's okay too. People can deal with that. So that's the other piece. The third piece of it is, from an end-user perspective, right, if end-users are accustom to having an interaction in a certain way and the you go out and get developers that come in and do it, something completely different, which they're apt to do because each will have their own kind of flavor to it, then you just force them to learn one, two, three, four, five different interface interactions I'm not going to do that. I'm going to get frustrated as heck, and I'm going to go call the help desk or I'm going to go get my app and say go do this for me. Both of which are counterproductive to the company and to me. So, it really depends on where you are in the stage of where your company is, I would say built versus buy it's not a one or a zero. There's lots of shades of gray in between, it's also not all or nothing. So, some applications might be built internally, some you may want to buy externally, some you may have a hybrid, and the nice thing about where workspaces is going now is that you plug all of those into the same environment. That's really the ultimate goal, is to make it as easy and transparent for the organization as possible, and also for the user because the user ultimately is the end consumer. And if it's not good for the end consumer, it's not good for the company either. >> (Lisa) So delivering this great game-changing customer experience for this, as we talked about before this distributed modern work force that wants to be able to access mobile apps, Sass apps. >> (Jack) Right. >> Web apps from tablets, PC, phone, desktop. >> (Jack) Your car, your refrigerator >> Exactly. >> (Jack) Anything with a screen on it. >> Oh yeah, the refrigerators. Wherever you are, I think, okay people >> (Jack) Sure. >> We're people, and we are the biggest single security threat there is. >> (Jack laughs) >> So in your perspective, how is what Citrix is talking about balancing security as an essential component of this employee experience? >> So there are a few things, number one is a lot of companies think that if they limit the end user experience they're more secure. The truth of the matter is, yes, I mean if you don't let me get in to an app I can't steal application or information, or lose it somehow. But I also can't get my work done. So there's a balance between security and privacy which many companies don't talk about which is not exactly the same thing, there are two unique things, more and more privacy is becoming as big or bigger an issue than security, but you know we can get at that in a minute. But, the notion of security really relates to what I was talking about earlier which is analytics. If I know what you're suppose to be doing, you're here at Synergy. If someone just got your credentials and logged in from Los Angeles or New York or Chicago or Denver or wherever, I know it's not you. I can shut that thing down very quickly and not have to worry about them stealing information, also if you're, if I know you're not suppose to be in a certain version of SAP, you're not suppose to be doing some ERP system and you're in it, then again the analytics tells me that there's something going on, there's something anomalous going on that I need to investigate. So, having a system that protects because there's a kind of a front end to everything that's going on in the back end, and a realization of what's going on behind that screen gives me a much higher sense of security from a corporate perspective, it's not perfect there is no such thing as perfect security, but it's a lot better than just letting us kind of do our own thing, and loading, you know, semantic or McAfee or whatever on your PC. And that's where the industry ultimately has to go. That becomes part of the new modern workspace. It's not just about more productive it's about more secure. It's about more private. It's about not letting information escape that shouldn't be there to begin with. >> (Keith) So last question on data grabbing. Because we haven't talked about data and data is, you know, probably the most important thing in this topic. The importance of the (unintelligible) and Google announcement. You know, we, the yottabyte, the first time I've heard that term, yottabye of data that data's going to be spread across the world and this, this ideal of centralized compute and us being able to present, compute into data centers, no longer going to work, that we're going to have to, applications are going to be spread across the world. Where do you Citrix advancing that discipline of providing apps where they need to be with these relationships? >> So, it's an interesting phenomenon what we're going through right now, if you look back a couple of decades ago everything was centralized, people were centralized, they all work in one building, computing was centralized it was all in the data center, IT was centralized, it was all, you know, working around the servers. The Cloud is the opposite direction, although I would argue The Cloud isn't new, The Cloud is just time-share in a different environment, for us old people who remember the old IBM time-share computers. But everything is becoming distributed, data is distributed, people are distributed, applications are distributed, networks are distributed, you name it. The key critical factor for companies in keeping their productivity, keeping up the productivity is to make sure that the distributed environment doesn't get in the way of doing work. So you've got things like latency, if it takes me, if I'm in. (crowd cheers) >> They're having a party behind us. >> No, they agree with you! >> (Jack laughs) Yes, apparently. I, you know, if I'm here at Synergy but I have to work back at my offices near Boston, I can't wait five minutes for information to come back and forth, it's like the old days. Latency now has to be within five microseconds or people get frustrated, so that becomes a network issue, applications, same way, if I have to go to a data center, the data isn't local to my server here, it has to go to London, I'm not going to wait three minutes for it to come back like we use to, or ten minutes or an hour and a half. Or come back the next morning. You know, you want to book a flight on an airline, are you going to wait thirty minutes for them to find you a seat? You're going to go to another airline. So the whole notion of distributed means that it's very different now, even though it's distributed, everything is local. And by local, keeping it local means that you have to have latency below a certain point (crowd cheers) so that I don't realize that it's distributed, or I don't care that it's distributed. Yottabyte's of data means that we're going to have data everywhere, accessible all the time, and we're going to produce data like crazy. You know, a typical car, an autonomous car will produce a gigabyte of data every minute. Hundreds every, you know, hour. So, the amount of data is going to be fantastic that we have to deal with. Then, the big question becomes, okay so, I can't personally deal with all this data, it's impossible, I have to have the assistance, the intelligence within the system to go off and make something of that data so that I can actually interact with it in a meaningful fashion. That's where Citrix would like to go, that's where other's would like to go. They can't do it alone, because the problem is just too darn big. But, it will, we will get there, companies will get there eventually, not all of them perhaps, only the ones that are going to be successful long term are going to get there. >> Well, Jack, I wish we had more time to chat with you. This has, I just feel like going dot, dot, dot, to be continued. And I want to say, coincidence, I don't know, there were two rounds of applause when you talked about latency. (Keith laughs) >> There we go. They're just waiting for the bar to open, it's taking too long. >> (Lisa laughs) You think that's what it is? >> (Jack) Properly. >> All right well we'll get you over there, and thank-you again for joining Keith and me this afternoon. >> Thank-you very much. >> (Lisa) Our pleasure. For Keith Townsend, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCube live from Citrix Synergy, 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat theme music plays)

live from Las Vegas it's the cube covering Adobe summit 2019 brought to you by Accenture Interactive okay welcome back everyone so cubes live coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe summit 2019 I'm John ferry with Jeff Frick our next guest is Jim LaLanne CX orchestration practice lead at Accenture customer experience engine welcome to the cube Thank You Forex for joining us customer experience engine CX e CX a yes that's your product I should we work on what's the importance of that what's the big deal so the big deal is there's a proliferation of technology in the world and and one of the main challenges is everything's silent everybody has a different lens when you talk to the sales folks they have a view of the customer when you talk to marketing day of you nobody ever talks and the problem is when these organizations they think technology is the answer so and one of the things that we're always asked inside of the Accenture interactive is well how do you bring all this stuff together and we kept getting asked the same question over and over and over again and so finally we decided you know what let's do something about it let's make this so that you move the discussion away from technology and how can you accelerate your transformation and use something like CX e to bring that to life Jim you've been a pro in this business know digital back we're gonna you're mister you've seen many ways of the hype and the reality you know the titles of customer success man and your orchestration practice manager you know we're relevant but now more than ever those actually means something look at orchestration that's a big term used in cloud computing around orchestrating workloads customer success that's the theme of the show sure experiences so now more than every we're starting to see some visibility into tech implementations to hard problems that were being tackled by pioneers on the bass now in front and center here how do you summarize that that market right now because do you believe that to be true and what is that visibility what are people looking at right now and then what's behind it well for far too long it was always about the technology providers themselves or the in the cusp who are our customers the organizations that hire Accenture to help them transform but what we've seen is just a complete seismic shift it's all about what is the customer or the consumer one it's not about what we as organizations want it's about what the consumers want so we do very much see that as a trend that's moving and in in order to do that you really need to decouple your systems of engagement from your systems of record and by doing that it allows organizations to experiment so there's new technology coming in everyday probably while we're sitting here at least a hundred others have come to life yeah but it becomes hard because when you're always having that technology come into play how can you plug it into your own ecosystem to let the consumer get done what they want to get done on their terms because that's their expectation they don't really care what your internal problems are they just want to be able to get done what they want to get done and if they can't with you it'll go somewhere else so the practice what you're seeing is the practices have an environment that allows you to try stuff yes without a lot of hurdles and you know integration yeah so the standard thing would be any time an organization wanted to try a new product it could take anywhere from 6 12 18 months just before they could even figure out does it work what we're trying to do with cxe is turn that into a matter of weeks in some cases in a matter of days so by having a platform or a capability set up so as a new application comes in great I already know about the customer information because I'm making that transparent to everything I can plug it in I can experiment I spend a month I measured does this actually work if it doesn't great get it out let me try the next thing so it gives that flexibility to organizations which marketers love because the last thing you want to do is tell us CMO is like that idea you have that's great that's what really agility exactly come talk to me in nine months different now in terms of the people process and technically been talking about 360 view of the customer is short for donkey years right so what's now is different is it just a perfect storm of some of these things finally coming together is there some particular process or kind of secret sauce to get us over this you know finally we're here you know we can finally get that view of the customer one of the things that that started to happen was you started moving the I the idea and the concept of a single view of a customer out of back-end master data management legacy hard really complex applications and with the poll earlier for Asian what they call customer data platform CDP's there are applications that are built natively in the cloud that are exposed through api's it makes it easier to stand up those capabilities so it really starts becoming a question of well why wouldn't you do this so in the past it would be well I gotta go get capital expenditure money and I gotta go through this whole business justification now it's I can have something stood up literally in a matter of Miss villains which is purpose-built and it gives you that capability to then plug in place so that gives especially for us as system integrators it makes it exciting for us because we can say you know what I can stand up a single view of your customer I can be couple that from the sales force the Adobe's the Marketo we are the world up that would never built for that right that's not their expertise take a minute to explain what is the customer experience engine the CSE what is it so in essence it's the plumbing it's all the stuff that nobody ever wants to do that always destroys transformations so again this was one of these things where every single transformation you had ever seen I don't care pick your vendor Adobe s AP Microsoft where they always fall down is in integration it's just it's just the nature of the business so what we did with CX II was we said you know what what I want to be able to do is I want to have a micro services based architecture that allows me to if I have a client telling app one week I can plug that in three weeks later I want to use something like tulip I'm going to unplug what I have I'm going to plug tulip in but the experience that the consumer sees on the glass it doesn't change so when I'm writing a mobile application I'm going to use the experience API what sits underneath it and this is what CXC provides is that system API layer to then say you know what I'm going to unplug tulip I'm going to plug in something else the consumer is done to what it's like it's like a Tesla versus a car there's all the software updates going on behind the scenes changing the configuration of the automobile yeah similar experience you're gonna automate creating mechanisms so that the application the workload for the user is not disrupted by you're making modifications under the hood so to speak well think of it this way so and we'll go with the car analogy which was probably why with the engine engine mechanism but I was explaining it to another another gentleman and he said he's like you guys are like to pimp my ride of ID I'm not changing my engine what I'm doing is I'm adding a spoiler here I'm adding new tires and rims here I'm you know putting on you know flames I'm doing all these things but the underlying engine or the heartbeat of the engagement that stays the same what you're enabling me to do as a business is tailor and adjust based on consumer expectations so if today they really want to engage with us with email next week it's through a RvR I they have that ability and I don't have to completely retrofit my entire IT architect and this is the modern approach that we see people that are winning take a take a certain formula and that is build software abstractions in their areas of expertise so here if I get this right the the CXC the customer experience engine is essentially your domain knowledge of the center interactive extract it away to make it easier for the vendors to work through your system yeah so you solve your own problems but unstop being a customer benefit right because what we firmly believe the hard part in a digital transformation is not the tech which is easy for me to say because I'm the propellerhead in the room but to me it's it's a much more fascinating conversation to say how do we transform your people and your process to be customer centric that's actually the hard part it's not the tech so by taking the tech difficulty off the table then that allows them to jumpstart and get to the actual meet of changing how they operate and the other piece of that which i think is ensuring you didn't touch on that specifically but I'm I'm sure it's got to be there is it democratizes the access apps and the ability to do things with that data to the people that aren't necessarily tied into the ERP and tied into these other systems so you can now have other people running out algorithms doing tests doing experimentation so really that democratization is so important well it's amazing the empowerment that you give people when you just provide transparency of the data so when when the sales staff if the retail rep in the store all of a sudden has transparency of what have been the engagements that have been going on with the consumer they can have a meaningful conversation and they're focused on how can they help that consumer in that moment so we look at it as you know the last moment that you engage with a consumer is usually the most telling because typically you are 20% more likely to maintain loyalty if it's a positive you're only four percent likely if it's negative yeah and if anything you will lose 32 percent of your population on one bad experience so you look at your thoughts on the vendor relationship and that's so much locking because I think lock-in is really about value you do a good job you get value because we will use you but with cloud tick tools and api's are becoming a very key part of the tool chest if you will for the users and your customer base and so we're seeing that the skills gap and the retraining that's trying to happen tends to focus on api's and tools so Amazon's got a cloud everybody's no one wants to learn ten different tool sets right how do you view that because I think we hear from practitioners all the time and they always say you know I just want it to work I want infrastructure as code I love DevOps I love agility but I don't want to learn all these new tool sets all right but I'm comfortable with this cloud I'm comfortable with this these kinds of tooling tool chains or api's how do you see that evolving is that going to be automated away will it be innovation there what's your thoughts there so my general feeling is I think you're going to continue to see more and more consolidation of adoptions in the rest based API space just because one it's easier on developers and developers win so if you make a developer's life difficult they're just going to move to something else so for the organizations that embrace that they're gonna continue to see that you will you will start to see more and more automation but I mean ultimately at the end of the day the economy that we work in runs off of api's and it's really the more you embrace it the more you share information are willing to share information within reason I mean there's you know legal and all sorts of things that have to have to be looked after but you know that's what that's what drives things so we as Accenture we look at application partners that embrace that methodology embrace that belief system of let's make it easy to share data that's one of the things that you know Adobe Microsoft and sa P are doing what the open data initiative is also trying to make it easier to share information amongst different stacks so it's a it's a variation of that and I I do believe that you're gonna continue to see more of that just because again the consumer that's what they expect and also the cloud native trend also that's a tailwind for that movement as well because they expect it to short standards I mean to a certain extent if you think about what's even cloud native it anymore cuz a lot of times people say well I'm on Fram well where are you I'm from ma well I've got my virtual cloud sitting over here or my privacy it's just distributed computing all right what's getting you excited here at Adobe summit I mean I'm impressed with the platform play I think they got that right I think they didn't over reach its laid out nice single view the customer got the data pipelining and semantic engine on the on the other side of it and a variety of app integrations looks solid to me what's your thoughts on Adobe I think it's a good first step to be fair I think it's a good first step I actually applaud them for for going down that path I'm excited about the possibilities it gives to our customers who are embracing the Adobe stack I'd like to see them go further especially with in terms of extending it out to other partners as well because it's one of those things of there's no one platform that solves everything that's a large reason why we established cxe is the days where you could just have all Adobe and that's going to solve everything across they'll service marketing and commerce that's there's no one provider that has that so you need to have that ability to transfer data and to drive that experience so I'm excited about where Adobe's going with the experience platform because I think it's a good first step especially on their side to try and make it easier again it's about how do you make it easier to deploy applications so that you can serve the purpose for the consumer so I think it I think it's a good first I would you describe the makeup of the ecosystem community breaking down from developers to integrators and partners because as you start to see this kind of enabling platforms as you said it's a first step is foundational you'll see how it kind of evolves sure ultimately developers will to me will be a canary in a coal mine on this one but how does has the makeup of the community on the development side what did what it's the personas are the developers the hardcore cloud guys are they mostly app developers is there some segmentation what's your view of this I think so what I'm seeing is developers turning more into cross utilization of skills if there's there's less and less of I'm just this type of developer it's usually more of I'm gonna experiment and do a little bit of everything what I've actually been finding interesting is a lot of developers are turning into people that sit in marketing or sit in sales operations or you know some people have turned it citizen integrators but it's people who do not come from a technical background but the tools that are being created today are enabling them to do more of the integration work on their own and that's one of the benefits when you have open API is recipes api's is you can put more of that power in the hands of less technical users there's that's not to say you're not going to ever need hard for developers but what I'm seeing is more and more non-technical people are getting into the developers of time cycles are changing they want to be closer to those customers that the closer to the front line is not in the back office kind of coding away right you just you don't with with consumer expectations shifting on a dime you can't wait and that's one of the things that we spend a lot of time trying to help our IT side of the house customers is how to be flexible how to be nimble so that when marketing where any business leader comes to you and says hey I want to try this out you don't say I'll get back to you in nine months it should be I'll get back to you next week yeah and that's really the goal of what we're trying to do with new titles we had a guest on the queue we've been doing the queue for 10 years first time we've ever had a guest with a title marketing CIO which was kind of business saying look I got I got to sit in the marketing team and be a CIO over here and translate and put projects together and make things happen to your point about it's an integrator kind of like putting it all together well I mean it's no different than you see more and more CIOs become much more business focused business savvy they're not just hey I'm going to keep the lights on from a technology perspective the the more successful CIOs have that business lens no different than the CMO the CMO czar having to get smarter on technology and a lot of times what we're saying is the CMOS are driving the tech agenda not the CIOs so as a result I'm not surprised to see I'm the would you say was a marketing CIO Marketing CIO thanks for the insights great to have you on yeah I think get the talk tech and under the hood marketing text great final question for you what's next for CXC customer experience engine what's going on what's the next leg of the journey for you so the next leg of a journey is we've already got the integration layer laid out so we can pretty much plug-and-play any application that is out there we're really diving into real time analytics real time segmentation taking some of the power of the capabilities that are in the CDP space to drive those engagements so it's really it's it's an expansion and then that data space and making it that much more accessible to our customers that's great you guys bring some abstraction some automation to the table for customers it's a cube bringing you all the data here and insights I'm chef Fred chef Rick stay with us more day 2 coverage after this short break

>> Live from Orlando, Florida It's the Cube covering Enterprise Connect twenty nineteen brought to you by five nine. >> Welcome back to the cubes. Continuing coverage of Day one of Enterprise Connect twenty nineteen in Orlando. I'm Lisa Martin with my co host student a man. And we're excited to be joined by a first time member visitor to the cue. Bryan can the CMO at five nine. Ryan, welcome to the Q. >> Thank you. Good to be here. Thanks for having me. >> Well, thanks for having the Cuban the five nine booth context. There was a service. Tell us a little bit about first of all this event, this event is as to when they were talking about about twenty eight twenty nine years. Lots of evolution from your perspective. Today, what is enterprised connect twenty nineteen. And what opportunities This is going to provide somebody like yourself in terms of the modern marketing. >> Yeah, it's really interesting. Modern markings obviously evolved cms cr m contacts and are all part of the modern marketer. I think this show really proves out how much that modern marketing idea the spaces expanded this my first time here. It's amazing. See, all the companies, all sorts of different technologies, they're coming to market and some have been here for a while. >> One of the things I find really interesting is that you know, we're all consumers everyday way. Want to transact things on our phones, tablets, video chat, this idea of Omni Channel, where the consumer is so empowered way sort of bring these demands to the surface of whatever my problem is, if I'm trying to transact something or I'm trying to get information on mortgage a pre approval or something, I want to be ableto have a company, be able to follow my conversation regardless of channel, and then have enough data to take action on in a timely manner. Where, in your thoughts, from a modern marketing perspective, where are we in terms of maturation of like integrated Omni Channel? >> Yeah, that's a great question. I think we're finally at a mature, pointed technology where we can start to meet the demands of the consumer that salutations with consumer. Obviously, that's the dream scenario for everyone have follow me on my terms, not on the company's terms, I think five nine, we want to make sure that no matter where your customers or your prospect is that we're there to meet them on there, they're channel whether it would be >> so, Ryan, when I look around, a show like this cloud is something that has really transformed what this was. You know, I've looked at what watch? Really? From the end of the early days of companies like sales force, you've got some background there. A cz too, You know the enterprise. Is it OK? Can I trust it? Today? Cloud is here. It's not going anywhere. Major piece of the landscape when you're talking, you're customers, you know? How does that fit into the environment? You know, have they gotten over some of the, you know, kind of legacy it mindset of, you know, because I'm not sure if I'm safe to go out there, >> that is we're at a critical point right now where the contacts and her started. Out of all, a lot of the companies have built on from contact centers are starting to age out. What we're hearing from our customers is that the cloud is has never been more important. And the reason because of that is the data that they're collecting from all their different touchpoints. How do you collect it? How to use it together? How do you make it coherent and make it into a clear plan. The only way you could get the data out is to have it all in the clouds. >> So, Brian, I'm glad you brought up data because when we look at our research, data is at the center of everything. Obviously majorly important cloud. I can't have a I if it's not for the data. Exactly. I think back to you know, my first job out of college, I worked in a call centre. We talked about data being important way talked about. Oh, we're goingto have a database that's going to help you get your customer's information fast. That was back in the nineties. Yeah, it's very different today. Can you talk about how things are different today when we talk about data? How does that drive your businesses? Five nine. And your role is the CMO today. >> Yeah, well, the first thing about five nine is that we have over five billion minutes of data. Conversational data data has evolved over time. Early on, we had a lot of what we call operational data data that says how many people have flickering website how many people have viewed impressions and things of that nature five nine with really interesting is this. Things that we talked about is contextual data where your customers asking for where they want. They're literally on the phone telling you what's wrong. So that meantime, two resolutions really important. But if you start to look at that data deeper, you can start to predict what your customers are looking for from her services from your products. I think that's what's really gonna be transformational. And as a marketer, I've spent a lifetime looking at that user data and always under trying to ask the question, what our customers saying where they want behind the data. And now we're starting to look at that and marrying those two data sets together. I think that's gonna be the next evolution of data. And that's why I think at five nine, that conversational data, along with operational data as a marker that's really important with Ford. >> So one of the things that I'm interested in is you have a lot of organizations in any industry that are reactive. They want to get too proactive and eventually to predictive what some of the things that an organization, whether it's a telco or a financial services organization. How can they remove some of the barriers in the way between a contact center and those customers so that they can glean those actionable insights in a timely manner? >> Yeah, I mean, it's really about the connection between your earlier question about why the context is so important. You see all the companies here, they're starting to be more and more companies driving into this space, really looking at a I. So the two things that we've touched upon already is the power of the cloud Howard. The data part of a eye to look at all that data and make certain prediction certain conclusions from that data so that you can start to have a clear path to your customer and react faster. It's all about zero distance to your customer. >> Ryan, Can you bring us in the customer experience? I think you know, we've all had, and it put times as a consumer where you're frustrated. I can't buy stuff on the Web site. I've called, you know, interactive voice response or not my favorite thing to deal with. So, you know, if companies aren't using solutions like yours, you know what are they in danger of, >> well, your customers? Their prospects are really the heart of every business right, and part of that is, your brand is really important in those moments when they need you the most. And when they're reaching out, contact me through email as a mask were on the phone. Your brand is that could be at express, but also at its most vulnerable. And that's where the contact center your agents. That experience is crucial to the overall customer experience. You have one bad phone conversation. You have one bad SMS. Your brand is really at risk and your brand if it's at risk. So is your business, because consumers have more choice than they've ever had before. >> One of the things owned stories do you, when you're talking with customers that you say, You know, you have to look at every customer interaction as possibly your last, but also as an opportunity to delight that customer and drive an increase in customer lifetime value. Do you talk to me? Talk to customers, but you gotta look at it through both lenses. >> Yes, I mean, if you don't look at the that's the contextual data, that's the context in which you serve your customers Now five nine. Nothing's more important than the customer, and we always try to make sure the human part interaction never leaves. As technology keeps on expanding, we have to imagine we have to imagine ourselves in our customer seat. Was it like to be on that phone call? Was it like to be on that interaction? And how do you provide companies a platform to be better and better and better have the same Better, Better never best, which is this idea of always evolving. Never feel like you achieve something. Always try to get better. >> Ryan, your your your businesses Cloud based. One of the things about the cloud is usually talking about rather than just something that I install and might have maintenance on. It is something that paying for every month and every year, and therefore I need to maintain a relationship with the customer because otherwise, you know, they could just say, Well, why am I paying for this? Can you talk about the relationship you have with your customers? You know how you make sure that you're giving them, you know, not just a day one experience, but an ongoing experience that grows? >> Yeah, I think. Four five nine customer experience. We're in the customer experience business, and so it's really important. We know that our technology is only a successful is the people who adopted and use it. That's where the technology comes to life. So we want. Make sure that we only sell our product way, help you install it. We help you go through the change management, which is critical. If you don't have your agents involved and they're having a hard time adopting your technology, that means that they're focused on that and not the consumer, not your customer base. So five now we want make sure from beginning to end you are held to our high standard of customer service, which is like this five Blue Star customer service. >> Soon I talked about that and our intro. It's not just ensuring that on organization can facilitate on me ten or ensuring that the customer experience it's table stakes these days. It has to be delivered as a effectively as possible, but it's also the agents who are on the front lines were dealing with. Let's face it, oftentimes if we're calling in or we've used multiple channels. There's maybe an escalation that we're not getting the resolution that we want. So where do you guys have those conversations with? It's not just about implementing cloud technology and Tech Center as service, but it's also about the training and the enablement, an empowerment of the agents to have the data to make those decisions because they're on the front lines. >> Absolutely correct. And that's why we've renamed our platform the genius platform, because we feel that every agent should be a genius at what they're being asked to do. Way won't make them feel confident about the information at the fingertips so that they can focus on the empathy. Five Nine believes that the technology is just a part of it, as I've said before, but really, it's the combination between the change management agent, the customer, the answers and the questions. It's all those things combined. Way won't make that easy for the agent to deliver Amazing touch points for your company, >> right where that that's a great point, because when you talk about, I have automation. I have intelligent, even robotics helping in there. I need that person where I'm not gonna have that empathy. So weigh. >> See that our MPs scores. The Asian experience is critical, right? So we really focus our platform and delivering that for the agent. But the other side to is making sure you can gain the insights from these conversations and delivering it back to the business, because we feel that that's a ZAY said earlier. That's the next evolution of data. Is pulling out that contextual data and marrying it with all your different data sets >> you brought up NPS. I'm curious. Do you have any way of measuring, You know, customers that used your solution versus customers that might have been doing things the old way? Is there a bump in NPS? Is there a bump in retention of agents? How do you measure success? >> Yeah, we take both MPs for our customers, and I know our customers take MPs for their agents and their customers. And when you use five nine, those numbers obviously go up. When you start measuring something, people really, if you analyze it, it will happen. So what we see is a huge adoption of making sure that the customer empathy the customers at the focus >> so last couple questions here, Ryan. You guys had a good amount of enterprise growth and f y eighteen. In fact, they stay large growth in customers with a million in a our annual recurring revenue when your fastest growing Saigon's enterprise. You know, small, medium size businesses often have the same challenges. But I'm wondering if you're seeing any sort of early adopters from an industry perspective, financial services, health care, anything or do you see that it's fairly horizontal and organizations that have to reach that consumer? >> It's fairly horizontal. I think the definition will contact center is obviously expanding. People are really focusing on customer experience, and they're certain to realize that Contact Center is a competitive advantage. If you deliver great customary experience, you do deliver great brand loyalty, and that just means your customers will continue to come to you, trust your brand and ask for more services. And that's obviously way. All know it's easier to retain a customer, then is to find anyone. So we think that is a huge advantage, and we're seeing that across the enterprise they're sending, realized this is a huge difference when everything else is the same. Deliver great customer experience, >> right? So, Brian, let me ask the brand question. You know, CMO When people come to enterprise connector, they're reaching out to five nine. What? What is the brand promise? What do you hope people are walking away and understanding about where you fit in the landscape? >> Yeah, I think that when the key things that I want people to understand about five nine is that where about a platform about delivering relationships? It's about It's about the technology we want. Make sure you have ploughed the latest and greatest. We won't make sure features are today. But really, what's important is that service all the way through from implementation to your agents. Happiness here, customer happiness, context. There's a conflict blend technology, people and this interaction with your customers. We will make sure that each part of those are being service, not just a technology, just not a person with the whole life cycle from beginning to end. >> Well, Ryan, thanks so much for joining stew and me on the cue this afternoon and inviting us into the five nine booth and also kind of sending the contacts for the Enterprise Connect twenty nineteen event that we really appreciate your time. >> Thank you for having me. It's been great. >> Hirsute men. A man. I'm Lisa Martin, your Washington Cube lying from day one of our coverage of enterprise Connect twenty nineteen.

>> Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE, covering the AWS Accenture Executive Summit, brought to you by Accenture. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of the AWS Executive Summit here at the Venetian in Las Vegas. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We have three guests for this segment, we have Merim Becirovic he is the Managing Director of Accenture's Global Cloud Initiative. Matt Lancaster, Associate Director of Technology, Architecture, Science, and Miha Kralj, Managing Director of Cloud Strategy at Accenture, thank you so much for coming on the show. >> Pleasure. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for returning, I should say, Miha, you're a veteran. We're talking today about event-driven architecture. Before we get into the nuts and bolts of it, I need a definition, so what is event-driven architecture? >> Sure, so event-driven architecture, I think the simplest way to think about it is when we're doing complex series of transactions it's actually breaking it down into its constituent pieces and treating all of the segments of a transaction as separate events that can be reacted to as they happen. So if you're shopping and you're putting something in the cart, that's an event. If you're going to the next page, that's another event, if you're checking out, that's another event, right? And as opposed to treating those all as one step follows the other, right, a lot of times there are sequences and things that can happen in between there. If there's a next best offer or a product marketing interstitial that needs to be put in those things can be reacted to and composed much more simply than actually writing all the logic to put them in a big sequence. >> So on a high level I would say it's an architectural style, right, it's a style of putting systems together, which is an evolution of the most common styles that we used so far, and we went through several evolutions, about every decade we get a new and better architectural style, so a reactive event-driven style is just the one that is currently shaping to be the one that is going to replace the older architectural style called microservices. >> So why would an organization implement this event-driven architecture what kind of business challenges would the organization be looking to solve? >> Well if you want I'll start there, I mean just think so, you have a world where today I believe we're in the slowest time we're ever going to be from a technology perspective. >> Which is mind boggling. >> And what we saw this morning, right gentlemen, the amount of innovation that everyone is doing including AWS is going to be mind-numbing, so the question is going to be, how can we and what tools can we use to help us adapt for those capabilities in the future? So I think that's really one of the things is, Matt'll say I think it's easier than ever now, it was harder before but it's getting easier as the providers and everyone else is making their services more readily available for consumption. >> I think in a lot of ways as an industry, we're almost forced to move to this paradigm, whether we like it or not because I think everyone understands that every company has now become a software company once again, whether they like it or not and that means major changes to the organization model, the way people deliver. We need to be much more product-focused, and teams need to own their product and things like that, right, which is becoming the common business model that successful companies are operating around. If the architecture is still a traditional command and control architecture, two years later they're going to be back to that old work style, and frankly the market is going to punish them out of existence. So we need something where all of these wonderful, complex components that we saw in the sessions today can be decomposed into one team doing one thing with one set of components and they don't necessarily need to be aware of what all the other teams are doing because they just need to react to one another's events when they're interested in them. >> So the system, business systems always grow to the largest possible extent of what is still manageable and controllable, and using traditional architectures on top of this modern technology that allows us now to make way more complex systems, we already having clients that we see that the governance control and transparency is at its limit. So if we want to go beyond that barrier of complexity and not fear that suddenly systems will become chaotic, we need a new architectural style and we see already those limits happening, and that's why we already have an answer, we have an answer that is after microservice architecture which is reactive event-driven. >> Would you say that moving to this kind of architecture is difficult? >> It's a great question and I think it's gotten a bit easier. There's definitely some magic to actually taking a step back and decomposing the business systems and saying this component or this piece of the transaction or this piece of the organization fundamentally does this, these business events are what they really need to focus on and then make the components, functions, and systems actually emit and perform the business logic of those events and do more demand-driven design, then get into picking and choosing which, whether it's serverless functions or micro-nano-service some Kubernetes, the components allow us to cleanly separate and stream out events and react to each other but if we don't do that initial stuff on the business side, then it becomes really difficult to know who gets value where. >> I think the art of the possible in this space is very much anything can happen, and I think about things like we run a lot of our Cloud footprint, we're already 93% of the public Cloud for Accenture's IT, and I think about how we consume those things, what can we optimize, how can we do things differently, even on the concept of running infrastructure, if I have better event-driven capabilities, I can react more efficiently, I can really make a consumable service more utility service than I've ever had before, so I think that's one of the draws for me. >> When you say difficult, here is if developers that are writing code today and they already went through a couple of waves of reinventing themselves, if they already know that they need to do that again, then it's not difficult. For the developers that feel that they arrived and they already can code for the Cloud and that's it it's a difficult reinvention when they realize that although yes, their existing knowledge of procedural programming of traditional way of coding systems in the Cloud, they need to throw lots of that knowledge away and relearn how the systems are properly composed so they use Cloud the way that Cloud was intended to be used. >> And just to add to that a little bit, there's a lot of folks that will take a very traditional imperative programming paradigm and try to jam it into things like AWS Lambda and Kinesis streaming and what they end up with the end is sort of a tortured circus freak of an architecture. It doesn't help anyone and ultimately people spend six months and then get super discouraged on doing this stuff when they could have taken a step back and done it right the first time which I think is why it's important to understand that's only a few code composable components, the more layers you put in, the more complexity you're adding, the more you horizontally grow the better off you are. And if you're streaming events, you have functions that react to those events, microservices that react to those events and then gateways that can actually stream those out to interfaces, that's all you need. We don't need to overcomplicate this like we have every other generation of architecture. >> I'm trying to picture that tortured circus freak of an architecture, it's ugh, in terms of Accenture's own experience in this area I know that your company is already leveraging event-driven architecture. Can you tell our viewers a little bit more about your own experience? >> So let's start with our clients first. We serve a very broad spectrum of clients. And luckily not everybody is at the forefront and also not everybody is at the tail-end, right. We have lots of clients in the high tech industry in communications and media where the needs for the leading edge is very clear, and we are focusing particularly when it comes to that latest innovation, event-driven included, particularly on those industries. We kind of belong in the front part of there, and that's why Merim and his organization is extremely versed in those modern styles. >> I think just to add to that a little bit, since I play in a slightly different space than you most of the time, I work with a lot of banks, insurance companies, capital markets, and the adoption that I see in those industries of this stuff is massive. The problem with most banks is that they've tried to change core banking systems now two or three times, they're still sitting on mainframe stuff that they built in the 70's and 80's and most of what they with payments and with different financial services and stuff they can't actually add that stuff to the speed and convenience that their customers are determining and so there's a lot of fintech startups that are disrupting that market. And if they don't change those core systems and they don't become more event-driven and we don't decouple, decompose and then eventually rebuild we're going to find folks really fall behind in the marketplace, and I think they realize that. The real magic of this is that we can, it's not a big bang three year transformation anymore, right we can build the core and then realize value within the first six months and then continually iterate and evolve and hollow out those legacy systems and eventually turn them off which is very opposed to the old way of saying we're going to do this three to five year transformation, after five years, you probably maybe kind of will realize some technology value. And to Merim's point earlier, no CEO is going to go in front of his board or her board and pitch a five year transformation, that's a really good way to get fired. >> Yeah even in our own internal environments one of the things we always think about is what are we trying first, what are we failing fast at, 'cause that's one of the key things for us and all of these capabilities and the other thing, what's happening with this space, Cloud, microservices, event-driven architectures, everything is enabling this powerful change of making for the first time I would say in a long time the network engineer, the app architect, the technical architect, the infrastructure engineer, every one of them working together to start to think about this, all of these things are happening in my environment, these events are happening, what should I do differently? How does this help me automate my capabilities? How do I react to things differently? How do I make sure that I'm catching my infrastructure before it fails, my application before it fails, there's many many levers that you could use in this space, and we're frankly trying all of them because I think the goal to me that helps is I want an automated IT experience that has less people managing it but more people reacting to the events and we're creating the world where this event-driven architecture you could say eventually is going to evolve into all this AI stuff, we're going to be the managers of AI in the future. The AI's going to run our infrastructure and I think that's the most fun part part about this. >> I think two additional points to that, I think it was very well said, one of the things the really excites me about this space is that it becomes very understand... The technology piece, the software piece becomes very understandable to the folks who understand the business side and the marketing side, et cetera. If what you're doing is just sending out events which are a piece of business functionality or marketing functionality or whatever it becomes explicable in plain English, you're reacting to one another's simple business events, and then all of those composed together can create the same value chain that before had to take six months and only a math PhD could understand. (laughing) >> It's approachable to much broader businesspeople, not just to arcane, unique eyes. >> Yeah and to the AI point I think one of the most disappointing things to me in our industry is that most of the AI projects have boiled down to a shitty chat bot that nobody actually likes to interact with. >> I know and this is the part we're missing, right. >> Because they can't actually do anything, when you finally get to a person they have none of the same knowledge, so if we democratize that information, it all gets streamed out to all interfaces all at once, and they can say okay, if you didn't get your room in time the system will go ahead and rectify that and it creates a great customer service experience instead of an IVR in text, which nobody likes. >> And I like the point, I think you hit on the point that's very near and dear for me is, as IT practitioners we've dealt a long time with the siloed ownership of data, this democratization of data is a very powerful tool I think that helps gets enabled by some of this event-driven capability because so many times people feel that oh, I own the data, I can't share this with you or I need to understand what you're doing with it, expose your data, give your teams a chance, give them the events, let them react because you don't know what you're going to create coming from it. >> Set your data free, we heard that this morning from Andy Jassy. >> There's very relatable examples of this, right, I mean how many of us have gotten off a flight, the gate has changed, it shows that on your mobile app, you walk up to the gate agent, you're in an unfamiliar airport, where do I go? And they say oh your gate hasn't changed, it's not updated on my screen. You go to the board in the airport, oh it's not updated here either, right. Then you go to the original gate, they say what are you doing here, you have five minutes to get over to the new gate, right? And then you book it all the way over there, you look at the defibrillators on the wall, you're thinking I'm really glad those are here. You get to the gate and they haven't even started boarding yet and you finally get the late boarding announcement, right? It's three bad customer services experience in one, and if all that data goes to all those interfaces all at once you have none of those bad experiences. >> Well if event-driven architecture can solve that problem, I'm all for it. >> You're in? >> Merim, Matt and Miha thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having us. - Absolutely, pleasure. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, we will stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of the AWS Executive Summit coming up in just a little bit. (digital music)

(upbeat electronic music) >> From the Hard Rock Hotel in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering HoshoCon 2018 brought to you by Hosho. >> OK, welcome back everyone. We're live in Las Vegas for HoshoCon. I'm John Furrier, the host of theCUBE. This is the first inaugural security conference around blockchain. Our next guest is John Kirch, who's the Chief Evangelist for Sentinel Protocol. Great to see you, thanks for coming on. Hey, it's great to be here, John. Thank you very much for inviting me. >> I love the shirt, I got my CUBE shirt here. You got your shirt on. Cool crowd here. So, before you get into some of the things you guys are working on, what's the scene here like, for people who aren't here, this is the first ever blockchain security conference around in the industry. What are the type of people that are here? And what's going on? Why is this important? >> Well, that's a really good question. I mean, I can think back and I remember meeting the president of Hosho. For the first time back in New York at Consensus. And he was giving a presentation, and I thought it was fantastic presentation, but we broke ice, we shook hands. And then we bumped into each other again in Soul. And then I was also talking to Tim Draper not too long ago. And Tim said, he was coming out here to Las Vegas to give a presentation. And he is one of our key investors. So we thought, it would be a good idea for us to show up as well. And we believe that many times in trade shows and other types of seminar series, there's too much emphasis on fintech and not on security. And the reason why I say that, is basically in the blockchain crypto world, right now one of the major challenges holding back the growth and the success is the lack of security. Not in a core blockchain technology, but in the Dapps and in the other connected applications. People are getting hacked. And there's different types of hackings, everything from Phishing, to malware, to DNS engine hacking, to smart contracts, web applications, I mean. >> The surface area is large. >> It, many different vectors, and it's complex. Something needs to be done about it in order to unlock the potential of blockchain crypto. >> Yeah, and I also love this event because one, it's, well first of anything is always good because it's present on creation, and you don't know, there might be another one, if it's around the next year or not. But I think this one seems like it's got the right people at it that it would grow. Because, remember. >> Yeah. >> The security is the number one problem, it should be seamless, it's complicated, multiple keys to deal with, multiple chains, never mind in the surface area for hacking. So I think blockchain is going to be a sea-change. We all know that, all tech alpha entrepreneurs are getting that. The complexity around the software is the key. What do you guys, how do you guys look at this? Because you guys are in the business to solve this problem. >> Right. >> What's the answer here? >> Well, we'd look at it from a experience point of view of cybersecurity. What I mean by that is that we have a lot of people on the team that come from companies like Palo Alto Networks, and F5, and Fortinet, I come from Darktrace, and other cybersecurity companies as well. But we'd look at it from the point of view, what did we do in the past, what were the problems, how can we leverage these technologies. What's wrong with the stuff that we did before, and how can we correct those gaps and provide a better product that's more usable, easier to install, and then has the multi-vector analysis capabilities to do the, not just antivirus, for instance, but how about AI, machine learning for detecting new anomalies and behavior or newer threats and attacks, or sandboxing. But how do we solve the problem is really our main focus. >> So I got to ask you question. A lot of people in the industry that are smart or trying to attack this problem, there's two schools of thoughts. We are going to get the software, going to get to the AI, got to do all the stuff over here, and then there's radical view is, Hey, the old model isn't working for blockchain, 'cause it's a different architecture, it's decentralized, so you can't just take network protocol stacks and say, Hey this is your security stack in the old network model to decentralize. So it needs a redo. >> Right. >> A refresh or a do-over. >> Right, right. >> So, this is, seems to be tension that's productive but still contentious. >> Right. >> What's the answer, because your old Juniper, Cisco switches might not be the perimeter-based firewall model, >> I'd love that question. >> We need a do-over or not? >> So, we are the world's first crowdsourced threat intelligence platform. I didn't say product, I said platform. And that means multiple various different types of products on our platform, but in addition to that, one of the biggest problems today is the need to update. Let's say, if you're looking at things from an antivirus point of view, if you haven't updated your database, your system, then you've got vulnerabilities that you haven't addressed. And so we don't need to be updated. Our system is running on a decentralized blockchain, and therefore is connected to APIs, to different types of endpoints. We are platform-agnostic, so we could connect to IoT-type devices or, you know, other types of, mobile telephones, or to PCs, servers, and so on. And, by having this collective cybersecurity intelligence, by definition, that means we have a richer, wider database of more information, than if you license a product from, let's say, any one of the antivirus vendors. You get that company's intelligence and support services only. But we're doing it, where we're taking company A plus B, plus C, plus this white hat hacker, plus this individual here, and we're, basically, combining all that together and offering it to our clients. >> And so, is it the single source of truth or knowledge around trust, how's the trust factor come in. 'Cause, if I'm a company I want to know that everything I'm running is updated. I want to know what it is first, and then it's updated. >> And you know, in this decentralized trustless world, there is, from our point of view, a need for an organization that can be trusted by people who have been hacked or experienced suspicious activity. So, we are addressing that, so we have a team of people called the Sentinels, and they are tested and certified by our internal cybersecurity experts, as having the capabilities and the knowledge and experience to contribute. And when those people make contributions, in terms of cybersecurity intelligence, we award them with points, and those points can be converted to fiat or into other crypto tokens. >> So you're tokenizing the contribution. >> We are. >> Relative to the crowdsourcing. >> Exactly. >> So this is like CrowdStrike, or is it different? >> Oh, it's different, I think, from CrowdStrike, because CrowdStrike, while it's a very good company and very good product, what we're doing is that we're combining blacklist with whitelist and we're providing the reporting service. And so, and we're running it on a blockchain, and the blockchain has certain elements that are very very good in terms immutability, or a very high type of resilience factor, or traceability, and so we're really taking our product and focusing it on the blockchain crypto world, but quite frankly, what we're building, because we're utilizing the technology in the optimal manner, it is also applicable to the conventional cybersecurity world too. And I expect that it'll be very commonly used there tomorrow. >> So, it's portable in the sense of the function. You can actually bring this to the class of cybersecurity, known detection type identification. >> I could be using it for Goldman Sachs or Bank of America, or, let's say, this hotel. >> Some of the global cybersecurity landscape, how would you, you know, if someone's putting their toe in the water for the first time. You're obviously in the trenches doing cutting edge work, certainly folks in Washington, D.C., around the world, have cyber conversations, from general Keith Alexander, there's new companies got some interesting things going on there. To kind of grokking it, what's so this, there's crowdsourcing, how would you brake up the cybersecurity market, 'cause cyber intelligence is a big part of regional cloud deployments now, Amazon's going to have a region in the Middle East. I'm sure they got their DNS monitored well. But you have network points and you have software running on them. How is the market sliced up? Is there categories, like, that are cleanly defined? How do you view that? >> Well, you know, I look at things from a point of view of having started in the cybersecurity world, John, back in 1998. And that was when I introduced the company called WatchGuard to the Japanese market, and also did that in Korea as well. But we pioneered the use of Linux appliances. Would you believe that? (John laughing) And we also pioneered managed security services. And so, one of the things that I learned over time as the cybersecurity world increased in complexity, I mean, back there it was easy, all you needed was an antivirus and you needed network firewall. >> And you had proprietary software too, open source wasn't as prevalent. >> Exactly, but things keep on getting ratcheted up, the complexity factor is growing. And now we look at cybersecurity and there are so many different types of products and services. And so it really comes down to understanding the security policy of the end user, of the organization or the individual. What type of PC they're using? Is it IBM, is it Apple? For them putting together a security policy and then bringing in different types of products that, basically, help that individual or that organization to satisfy that policy. And then tuning that over time. Most people don't think about that part, but the tuning process is also very important. So, and then educating people too, so. >> What's a number one industry problem that industry needs to solve as an industry, and then, what is the biggest concern that end users or organizations will have? Well, I think that biggest problem out there right now that hasn't been solved, is what's going on in front of our very eyes, this, the hacking of these exchanges and wallets. I mean, those organizations have lost now over three billion dollars, cumulative over the past few years, and then over one billion dollars this year. I mean, that's a lot of money. >> It's a lot of cash. >> And somebody needs to do something. >> And nobody knows where it goes, I mean, >> Well, actually we do know where it goes. Because, actually, that's the video I wanted to show today after my presentation, but there just wasn't enough time. We analyzed the Zaif hacking that happened just a few weeks ago. >> How much did they take? >> It was about 60 million dollars. But we analyzed that, and using crowdsourced information, we analyzed the transactions and so forth, and we found, believe it or not, that a large portion of those stolen Bitcoins were washed and went through Binance, the world's largest crypto exchange. And so, if they utilized our technology, to understand that the coins that are going through them were stolen, we would do a lot to increase the cost factor for monetizing stolen Bitcoins, we would help Binance to protect themselves. >> So the laundering of the coins, >> Yes. >> You could, basically, put a penalty on that, or >> Well, I don't look at it from a penalty point of view. I look at it from the point of view of helping people to make transactions that are kosher, that meet with their corporate policy, that comply with law, that enable them to ensure, that what they are doing is correct. >> So, you tracked the address, how do you know they are being washed, from that specific >> We, basically, track the addresses, we were able to track the addresses and I can show you a video later, if you like to, where we did just that. >> Yeah, I would like to get a copy of that. >> And the information, this is on the blockchain, show that the coins went through Binance. >> So, meaning the old classic IT operations, you always had the network management's piece, this is, again, can be a big part of traceability and accountability piece of it. >> Correct. >> This is important. >> Yeah, in fact, you know, it's really important that when you think about this world. For instance, if I were to give you five dollars. >> Thanks. >> And you were to get ripped off, and somebody took that five dollars from you, how would, John, how would you trace that five dollars? >> I would track the guy around that had stole it, find out where it is, but if I don't know who's took it, then... >> If you went to the police and ask them for help, do you think they could help you analyze and trace that and audit? >> Well, in San Francisco they break into cars and just take whatever they want. The police don't even show up. >> Right, but that's relying on luck, do you know, did he open the right car, >> I wouldn't. I wouldn't know who had this. >> But, you know, that's one of the great things is that with the blockchain technology, if you use it correctly, you can trace, many times, not all the time. But it does offer us very... >> 'Cause there's a digital footprint. >> Yeah. >> There's definitely a traceability aspect. >> And that's one of the nice advantages. So, I'd rather give you Bitcoin than the five-dollar bill. >> Yeah, I'll take the Bitcoin, it probably is worth more than the five. Money is going away, paper money, I don't now have a need for. Talk about the aspect of Bitcoin in cryptocurrency, as it relates to the funding of security attacks, because that's been a big concern, people trying to figure that out. Have you guys made any progress on tracking the funding, the underground funding for security attacks. >> Well, when you think about it, and when you think about the funding of security attacks, it's now teams, and a lot of these teams are very well trained and educated. >> And they're making some good money too. >> Yeah, and so they're making good money, they've monetized this. And all it takes is one time that they break in. And, so, once they break in, and you're compromised, so you have to defend every every time, and do it well, but they only need to break in once. But in terms of that, >> One bad day. >> The one bad day. >> One bad second. >> And your company's gone. >> Yeah. >> But the funding of these endeavors is getting more and more sophisticated, the money involved is becoming much much more bigger, and we need to ratchet up our defenses, so that we can provide an adequate response. >> So, what is the answer for me, let's just say, hypothetically, you know, I get, you know, 50 million in Bitcoin for theCUBE bank, for our community, and going to use that Bitcoin to have people have flourish with content, and I got to store it somewhere. >> Yeah. >> What do I do? >> Well. >> What's my answer? Do I call Binance and say, Hey if you going to wash and launder that, I might as well put it with you, because if you're the home for all the money. >> Well, I think that the optimal solution is to get it off the network, put it into a cold wallet, and safeguard that private key in a way that is very very secure. Do not leave it, you know, on your PC, don't tape it to your screen, but basically safeguard that privat key very well. Put it into a deposit box at a bank, that might be a good idea. >> Or multiple deposit boxes spread across. >> Yeah. >> With instructions, in case, >> But don't leave it, don't leave it in your wallet >> Yeah. >> And don't leave it on, writing on the chalkboard either, above your desk. >> Yeah (chuckling). >> But, I mean, basically, >> Or don't write it down where the surveillance cameras watching you write it down. >> And you might want to use a multisig wallet as well, and that will also increase the security as well. >> All right, well, what's the story with you guys? Give us a quick update on the Sentinel Protocol, the company. How big are you guys? You mentioned Draper funded you guys. What's the status? >> Well, you know, we started earlier this year, back in January, and now we have 30 security professionals, our headquarters are in Singapore, we have another big office up in Seoul, Korea, we have a third office in Tokyo. We now have over 42 partners. I'm very proud to say that we've got, amongst those partners, at least 10 exchanges and wallets signed on with us directly, that are very interested in using our technology, integrated into their applications. >> Yeah. >> And so, >> And why they work with you, for a hedge, for security, for insurance, what's the rationale? It's forensics, for data, what's the value for them? >> Once they've been hacked, it's pretty hard to recover. A lot of these companies that are hacked, in fact, it ends with the company closing, or being sold. So, basically, what they're trying to do is leverage our security to detect the threats and the attacks, you know, in a proactive online manner before they get damaged. And then, by doing that, they can enhance their branding, that's services they're providing to their clients, and they can also help to maximize the stability and growth of their organization, as well as, >> It's a heat shield. >> The future life. >> It's a shield for them. >> It's a shield, yes. >> So they're being proactive on the security front. >> Exactly. >> So minimize any damages that potentially could get through. >> You know, right now, John, unfortunately, if you get hacked, it's a wild, wild West, it's every man up to himself. >> Yeah, it's a total stage coach. >> Nobody's going to help you. >> With the mask on, no one knows who it is. You got to do some sort of real forensics and get lucky. >> Yeah. >> Sounds like it's hit or miss, right? >> Yeah, if you get lucky, you're a lucky man, I'll tell you, because most of the people out there are not getting lucky. >> Yeah. So, we're working together with our partners to, basically, solve this problem. >> And how much money did you guys raise? >> We raised approximately eight million dollars, but it was 25,000 Ethereum. >> OK, congratulations. >> Not at all, thank you very much. >> Well thanks for coming on. Great to meet you last night at dinner. Security is at the top of the agenda. We are here, this is theCUBE coverage, part of our ongoing 2018 blockchain cryptocurrency, now digital money coverage. Of course, as you know, we've been covering Bitcoin and blockchain on our blog since 2011, and more coverage here at HoshoCon, the first security conference dedicated to discuss security on the blockchain and the new digital assets that is now money. I'm John Furrier, stay with us for more after this short break. (upbeat electronic music)